'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships)

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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 9:50 am

'Ship-'Ship (Exploring Relationships)

This topic serves as an archives of two threads from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. The first 'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) thread was started on August 30, 2003, its last post is dated Decembre 14, 2004. The second 'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) thread was started on December 14, 2004. Elanor

Header of the first thread:
Haggis and Irn Bru - Aug 30, 2003 1:46 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 12, 2006 9:50 am
I added the area within the parenthesis marks to make the title clearer. - Kip

The title says it all.

I know lots of people have different theories about who will end up with whom.

I would like to propose

Ron+Hermy, Harry+Luna and Neville+Ginny

Any thoughts on who you would like to get together?



Header of the second thread:
Kip Carter - Dec 14, 2004 5:45 pm
Edited Aug 4, 2007 8:11 am
Haggis and Irn Bru originally started this thread on August 30, 2003 with the following beginning:

The title says it all.

I know lots of people have different theories about who will end up with whom.

I would like to propose

Ron+Hermy, Harry+Luna and Neville+Ginny

Any thoughts on who you would like to get together?

Fifteen and one-half months later the thread is still going strong and is approaching the maximum 3,000 messages that a thread can have. Due to 73 deletions along the way, the maximum message total can only reach 2,927; therefore I am closing this thread out now. This new thread has taken the title of the original thread and the old thread becomes 'Ship-'Ship (Exploring Relationships) 30 Aug 03-14 Dec 04.



'Ship-'Ship (Exploring Relationships) Part I index

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'Ship-'Ship (Exploring Relationships) Part II index

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Last edited by Elanor on Sun May 15, 2011 10:17 am; edited 2 times in total
Elanor
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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:39 am

Dr Filibuster - Aug 30, 2003 6:05 pm (#1 of 2916)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Tonks and Lupin?

They've been thrown together in OoP. OK there's an age gap, but it's not that much considering their life expectancies. It would almost remind me of some Jane Austin matches. Or perhaps I've been reading too many JKR interviews and redhen essays.

Bill and Fleur is a given.

Will we ever see Madame Maxime again?

And I like a previous suggestion about seeing a wedding. I've wanted to see a wizarding world knees up for ages. The closest we've had is the Yule Ball.

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OkieAngel - Aug 30, 2003 11:52 pm (#2 of 2916)

Ron+Hermy, Harry+Luna and Neville+Ginny

YEA!! I like those, although my hubby rolls his eyes at Luna, but I'm for anyone to take Harry's mind off Cho.

Here's a question I had that's a bit off topic, but since we're talking about weddings and such...what do wizarding folk do when the time comes to deliver a baby? I mean St. Mungo's didn't seem to have a Maternity ward...

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Carina - Aug 30, 2003 11:56 pm (#3 of 2916)

and her killer bunny rabbit
ANYTHING but Harry and Luna, please! I'd rather see him with Cho again that Luna!

Ron + Hermione Harry + Ginny

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Hem Hem - Aug 31, 2003 12:00 am (#4 of 2916)

I'm with you, Carina.. Luna is an okay firend, but I REALLY don't want to see her romantically involved with any of the characters. Luna is very bad at reading other people's actions... she tends to think that someone's her friend, simply because they treat her half-way decent. She may think that someone's passionately in love with her, when they're really nowhere close. I have no problem with incorporating Luna into the story plenty, but I think she'll be a quick, dirty dead-end in any relationship.

And as for the Maternity styff, amybe there's a wizard equivalent of midwives. Or maybe witches just magic away all the pain and do it unnassisted.

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Slytherin Prefect - Aug 31, 2003 12:04 am (#5 of 2916)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
I don't know what you're talking about. Luna seems like a perfect match for Neville. ^_^

Harry+Ginny, Ron+Hermoine, Draco+Cho for me.

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Carina - Aug 31, 2003 12:07 am (#6 of 2916)

and her killer bunny rabbit
Poor Neville!

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OkieAngel - Aug 31, 2003 1:13 am (#7 of 2916)

Draco+Cho There's the way to end the line of Malfoy DE's Smile

and c'mon ya'll Luna's not all that horrid, just a tad...quirky surely she's still better than Padma or Lavender.

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Haggis and Irn Bru - Aug 31, 2003 4:10 am (#8 of 2916)

I feel sorry for Cho Sly. Prefect. I always saw him and Pansy as a match.

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Dr Filibuster - Aug 31, 2003 4:20 am (#9 of 2916)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
Do you think any of Sirius' ex-girlfriends will surface? I bet there were loads of them. As a youth he was drop dead gorgeous, oozing with confidence, brilliant mind etc. (too much for me though).

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Moony's Heir - Aug 31, 2003 5:48 am (#10 of 2916)

Why aren't anyone interested in Ron+Luna. I think we are all agreed that Luna has a crush on Ron. So,why not? And I am going for Hermione+Neville and my long standing theory on Harry remaining single.(Like Sirius,like Lupin,and even like Frodo)

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siobhan - Aug 31, 2003 6:20 am (#11 of 2916)[/b]
But i think Harry needs someone to take his mind off voldie. Maybe it'll be someone completly new but i think JKR was leaning towards a harry luna 'ship towards the end although at the start it was obviously ron. It would show Harry is out of the whole best looking girl stage and hopefully will go out with someone he gets along with. Look at Cho he obviously only liked her for her looks because she was soooooooooooo BORING!!! and always crying and putting on a whole I'm so shy act and only liked Harry because he is so cool i'm sure you'd agree. Sorry bout the rant never ever liked that girl. Harry and Luna definately

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Denise P. - Aug 31, 2003 6:51 am (#12 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I don't know that Luna has a crush on Ron, she may find him interesting but I think she finds anyone willing to talk to her interesting.

I really, really like Luna but I also don't see Harry and Luna unless he stops seeing her as someone to pity.

It could be Ginny now that she has a personality. I can't see Harry really getting a girlfriend though, he won't want to put her in danger. We already know he felt as if he were walled off from other people because he has to be murdered or be a murderer....a girlfriend just doesn't fit in those plans.

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Lorri23 - Aug 31, 2003 9:44 am (#13 of 2916)

I can't help thinking Ginny and Neville, due to a few clues in OoTP which I picked up on my second readthrough. They're the sort of clues which you can't really present as *evidence*, but do make you think, like Ginny snapping something in Neville's defence when Luna said something a bit dismissive of him (Sorry, can't remember the exact quote but it's in the chapter 'Luna Lovegood' - somewhere) Personally I wouldn't like to see Ginny and Neville as a couple at all, I don't think they're particularly suited to each other. It's just that I sometimes pick up on details like that in other books, and then find that they do develop later in the book/series...

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Landman - Aug 31, 2003 9:50 am (#14 of 2916)




Harry: "Ginny, I don't think you should hang around with me anymore, it's not safe -- you could be hurt. . ."

Ginny leans in and kisses Harry

Harry: ". . . or not."

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timrew - Aug 31, 2003 10:32 am (#15 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
How about Hemione/Grawp? After all, he's already calling her Hermy!

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OkieAngel - Aug 31, 2003 10:40 am (#16 of 2916)

I don't see the Harry and Ginny 'ship because he sees her as a little sister, but he needs somebody, especially if Ron and Hermy are gonna hook-up. I like Ginny and Neville. Why? She's cool, and while he's not at the moment, he's rock-steady and someone you can trust. Still waters run deep...

Here's a crazy 'ship idea that probably should go under "ain't never gonna happen" but bear with me, and don't throw anything...Hermy+Draco. Now think about it, he is unusually horrid to her, which is usually a sign that an boy likes you, he did nothing to retaliate when she whomped him in the face for dissing Hagrid, plus she's forbidden fruit, being muggle-born. On her side, it would be bad boy-good girl that we women so love, plus wouldn't it be a feather in her "cause" hat to turn him from the Dark Side. Would love to be at the Malfoy manor when only son brings a MB home to meet the folks...

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timrew - Aug 31, 2003 11:02 am (#17 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Grawp: "Hermy not come near Grawp! Grawp might hurt. . ."

Hermione kisses Grawp.

Grawp: "Yoh, Mama!!"

After all, if it could happen for Hagrid's Ma and Paw.......

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Dr Filibuster - Aug 31, 2003 11:09 am (#18 of 2916)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
Quite frankly Angel the Hermione/Grawp thing would be more likely.

Does Nev have a crush on Hermione though? He definately appreciates and respects her. He asked her to the Yule Ball and even told his gran about her. When he took Ginny she went off into a Corner!

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Denise P. - Aug 31, 2003 2:05 pm (#19 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I have seen so many who pull for a Draco-Hermione 'ship and I think Draco would rather eat raw slugs that festered in a pus filled jar in the hot sun for 2 weeks than get his pristine pure lips anywhere near Hermione in a romantic way.

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fidelio - Aug 31, 2003 2:10 pm (#20 of 2916)

And how about Hermione's feelings in the matter?

I can accept that she is the fascinating Forbidden Fruit, and Draco was taken aback by her transformation at the Yule Ball. However, I don't see her being fascinated by Draco in return, except as a sample of child-rearing the worng way, or something. She gets a vote, too. "Twitchy little ferret, aren't you, Malfoy?" Having his father leading the DEs that tried to do away with her, Harry, and the others probably isn't an added attraction in her eyes.

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raven brown - Aug 31, 2003 7:26 pm (#21 of 2916)

What about Ginny and draco. I don't think they would last but it would be interesting. And the she would wise up and go out with neville.

i really like the idea of Harry and luna or Tonks. More luna but you have to admit tonks/harry would be very interesting reading.

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CatatonicReaction - Aug 31, 2003 9:19 pm (#22 of 2916)

How can you say that when you don't actually know Luna Lovegood at all? She is in Ravenclaw, so she's probably smarter then people think. And just because she is weird or not socially acceptable by normal standards doesn't mean she can't tell if someone likes her or not.

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CatatonicReaction - Aug 31, 2003 9:21 pm (#23 of 2916)

I love it Tim! You might have something there... Smile

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Catatonic Reaction - Aug 31, 2003 10:57 pm (#24 of 2916)

What's the big deal.. it's not like anyone is going to get married and have kids in the series.

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TGF - Aug 31, 2003 11:17 pm (#25 of 2916)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Cata, there is the edit post function... you need not make 3 posts whenever you think of something new.

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OkieAngel - Aug 31, 2003 11:49 pm (#26 of 2916)

Okay now, remember I did say "ain't never gonna happen section," but it was an interesting twist my brain came up with at 2 am Smile

And I did take Hermy's feelings into consideration, Draco is the ultimate "cause" and what does our Ms. Granger love better than a cause. Anyway, in happily ever after land it'll be Ron that sweeps Hermione off her feet.

Give Pansy to Grawp, or even better, Millicent...or both Smile

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Professor Kosh - Sep 1, 2003 1:30 pm (#27 of 2916)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
I think the Harry-Ginny pair is by far the more likely. Yeah sure, Harry sees her as a sister-figure now. Just wait until his hormones get into full swing and Ginny starts to really blossom in puberty (EVERY guy has a thing for red-headed girls!). Besides, as I've said before (and others have said as well), Ginny can understand Harry as noone else can. She is the only one of all his friends who have actually been directly involved with Voldemort. That bond is unique, and I think will strengthen. On another note, Luna may have intelligence, but from her statements she is clearly off in left-field somewhere, and I see her as too spaced (not dumb) to connect in that way with Harry, or Ron even.

As for Ron and Herm, I have far more doubts. While there is certainly a tension between them in this regard, relationships between close friends can backfire spectacularly. I think the tension will remain there and unresolved in the books, with other interests present for them both (perhaps Neville for Herm, as he is definately growing).

Cho and Malfoy? Possibly. Cho might take her currently unstable emotional state and combine it with a distaste for Harry after their fouled up relationship and then connect with his enemy. I don't see it lasting though, especially if Draco follows in his father's footsteps. Cho won't get involved with someone who was responsible for her first love's death. Still, could Cho be the one to pull Draco from the 'dark side'?

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timrew - Sep 1, 2003 3:47 pm (#28 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
I think the only way Hermione would get together with Draco Malfoy, is if she found out he was a house-elf!

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Landman - Sep 1, 2003 4:21 pm (#29 of 2916)


Harry and Ginny make perfect sense based on the following key points from generic literature:

Ginny was instantly infatuated with Harry from the moment she saw him, but he barely knew she was there.

Marrying your best friend's sister (or joining two key families together) is a classic.

They share a common bond - being 'possessed' by Voldemort/Riddle.

He is in 'love' with everyone but her, and she has now moved on to other guys that really appreciate her.

The only thing I can say to JKR is -- "let's get a move on here!" We're up to book 6 and Ron/Hermoine aren't even holding hands, and Harry/Ginny are still playing "I don't care about you" games. You've got about 1500 pages to have everyone fall in love, save the world, and live happily ever after.

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Lenka - Sep 2, 2003 7:19 am (#30 of 2916)

ahhhh essays
Anyone here for the Harry + Susan shipper?

Just asking.

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Sinister Kittens - Sep 2, 2003 8:11 am (#31 of 2916)

I've put myself on Lurk only status, sorry I haven't been chatting but I have been reading about you all ;-).
This is a bit off the wall, but bear with me i'm new to this... what about Hermione & Justin Finch-Fletchley? I would like her to end up with Ron, but Justin just seems her "type".....?

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Sly Girl - Sep 2, 2003 12:27 pm (#32 of 2916)

Can I just ask why? Has Justin said more than five lines in the entire series?

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OkieAngel - Sep 2, 2003 12:44 pm (#33 of 2916)

I'm thinkin' Colin Creevey needs a girlfriend, someone he can adore besides Harry.

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Denise P. - Sep 2, 2003 1:18 pm (#34 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Hermione won't consider Justin, he thought Harry was the Heir of Slytherin. I can't see her going for anyone who gives in to mob-like hysteria.

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dobbyiscool - Sep 2, 2003 2:28 pm (#35 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Personally, I am all for the Ron+Hermy ship, however, Ron will probibly wind up going out with Luna at least once. She has a HUGE crush on him. Just read about every part of OoP where Luna is in the same room as Ron, and you'll see what I mean. Harry, I hope, will either wind up with Ginny, or remain a bachler. He could have almost any girl of his choice, he's famous enough, but he isn't all that shallow. If he starts going out with Cho again, he is just asking for trouble.

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Slytherin Prefect - Sep 2, 2003 4:39 pm (#36 of 2916)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
Speaking of ships, I can't help but believe that Eloise Midgen is going to show up in this role.

When Hermoine was berating Harry and Ron (who at the time didn't have dates for the Yule Ball, and wouldn't ask Eloise because of her horrid acne) about choosing someone on looks alone, that was one thing...

But then she gets mentioned again out of nowhere in OOP. Her acne has to clear up sometime, and I predict that in book 7 someone is going to take a major liking to her.

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timrew - Sep 2, 2003 4:46 pm (#37 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Maybe Ron needs to go out with Luna - or Hermione with Krum to give them both a kick up the backside!

Was ever a romance such a slow starter as Ron and Hermione? I've seen more romance in a pair of Flobber Worms!

Well, I haven't really......because so far in the books, the love life of Flobber Worms hasn't come up in Care Of Magical Creatures. But you know what I mean......

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Hem Hem - Sep 2, 2003 6:38 pm (#38 of 2916)

Ellen, how about Neville/Susan? They've both lost family to Voldy, and their personalities may be a very good match for one another. Even without knowing much about Susan, it seems like the two of them would suit each other well.

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Sly Girl - Sep 3, 2003 12:54 am (#39 of 2916)

That's great thinking, Jackie.. must be why I married them in my fan fic.

Ah.. the course of true love never did run smooth..aye.. as has been stated by many the person, these books aren't about romance, so yeah, it does seem as though it's taking forever- but remember they're only 15 (even though I know most of us sort of think they're older than that) and JKR has to sort of make them a very G rated 15, you know?

I do think we'll find out a lot in the epilogue she's writing. Er.. the one she better be writing. The one she should be writing or else I'll track her down and ask to borrow those notebooks of hers...

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Sinister Kittens - Sep 3, 2003 1:37 am (#40 of 2916)

I've put myself on Lurk only status, sorry I haven't been chatting but I have been reading about you all ;-).
Hi Sly Girl - The reason I put them both together is purely whimsical and based on their shared interets (not much but hey I did say that I hoped she ended up with Ron). Both are very bookish, intelligent, adore the school rules, but don't object to breaking them when necessary. (Hence Prefects at D.A. meetings...) But I like the Neville/Susan idea better.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 3, 2003 3:22 pm (#41 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Er, Justin wasn't a Prefect. Are you thinking of Ernie by any chance?

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Sinister Kittens - Sep 4, 2003 7:09 am (#42 of 2916)

I've put myself on Lurk only status, sorry I haven't been chatting but I have been reading about you all ;-).
Good point - I'll just get my coat...

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Fawkesy Lady - Sep 4, 2003 11:52 am (#43 of 2916)[/b]
I totally agree with you on your points!!! Ron and Hermione - can't you just feel the tension.

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evereverever - Sep 4, 2003 12:47 pm (#44 of 2916)

Ron+Hermione Harry+Ginny Neville+Luna (once Neville gets his Memory Charm broken - that MC thing is a theory I truly and deeply believe in)

Isn't anyone gonna be gay? Tonks?

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Sly Girl - Sep 4, 2003 1:00 pm (#45 of 2916)

Evereverever.. this forum is not really an appropiate place to ponder about the character's sexuality.

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Professor Kosh - Sep 4, 2003 3:09 pm (#46 of 2916)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
Tonks and Lupin. Why not? Lupin is so alone, and I think someone unconventional like Tonks would be great!

But, seriously, outside of the students, I don't see relationships getting explored much in the remaining books.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 4, 2003 4:11 pm (#47 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Actually, we may see some adult relationships. They won't be explored the way the kids' will but will be revealed in some way. JK has said that we'll find out some about teachers' spouses and why this information is kept so secret.....

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Hem Hem - Sep 4, 2003 6:07 pm (#48 of 2916)

We've already seen bits of it...Hagrid/Maxime and Bill/Fleur.

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Prefect Marcus - Sep 4, 2003 6:26 pm (#49 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
We've already seen bits of it... and Bill/Fleur.

Well, we only have Ron's word on that.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 4, 2003 7:00 pm (#50 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Actually Fred and George were the ones to tell Harry about Bill and Fleur, but Ron and Ginny were both in the room and neither disagreed with them....

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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:40 am

Jenny M. - Sep 5, 2003 11:29 pm (#51 of 2916)
I think we'll see Ginny+Neville at some point - both are dependable yet underappreciated. I want to see Ron+Hermione, and either Harry+Luna or Harry+someone we haven't met yet. Remember, the romance between James and Lily was very slow to develop, so we have evidence for Potter men taking a while to find their life-loves.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 6, 2003 12:54 pm (#52 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't know that that's true of "Potter men". It seems to me that James had probably been attempting to hit on Lily for awhile but she wasn't exactly receptive till he outgrew his arrogence somewhat....

Personally, I kinda like the "Harry+someone we haven't met yet" idea but I'm not too sure how likely it is that JK will introduce someone new who would greatly impact Harry emotionally this late in the game.

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Erhothwen - Sep 6, 2003 3:12 pm (#53 of 2916)

Ships I'm Hoping for: Ginny/Neville or Ginny/Dean or other nice minor character -OR- LUNA/Neville, Ron/Hermione, Lupin/Tonks, Harry-- ending the 7th book Safe, Sane, Single and on His Merry Way (Unless JK kills him off....) I know a lot of people want Harry to find his "lifelong soul mate", but honestly, not everybody does before the age of 18. I think (And hoping) that Harry will go through his own shares of flings, makeups n' break ups, but not really get into anything SERIOUS. *tumbleweed rolls by the H/Hr, H/L, H/G, H/[INSERT NAME] shippers* Eh, I'm probably the only here who thinks that... -Erhothwen

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Olivia Wood - Sep 6, 2003 5:08 pm (#54 of 2916)

Undisputable evidence: Hermione is an alien.
I'm for Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, definately. I don't know about Neville or Luna... I can see them maybe dating some of the other characters, but since they're already paired off it won't last, and I don't really know that Neville and Luna would be compatible.

I'm hoping to see some dating around in future books though, some oppirtunities for Ron to finally wear those dress robes...

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Stncold - Sep 6, 2003 6:21 pm (#55 of 2916)

nah us h/hrs do exist here, i just dont like posting on these boards often because of the whole lack of sig thing, aggravates me to no end, plus i spend too much time on the portkey.org and mugglenet.com boards so i just usually lurk here Smile oh and S.E. Jones i like that avatar its cool.

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Denise P. - Sep 6, 2003 6:36 pm (#56 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Hi Stncold and welcome to the Forum. To make your stay with a nicer one, I would strongly suggest that you read the thread "Philosophy of this Forum". We do prefer to see proper punctuation used when making a post.

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Stncold - Sep 6, 2003 6:56 pm (#57 of 2916)

lol sorry, its just these boards are very different from the other boards i normally post on. Its just that i dont see my mistakes until after i do the post and then i correct them. Its kinda confusing, not to mention im not exactly used to being outnumbered by r/hrs, pretty shocking honestly to find a board where so many r/hrs exist in one place Smile

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Weeny Owl - Sep 6, 2003 8:20 pm (#58 of 2916)

OkieAngel - "Give Pansy to Grawp, or even better, Millicent...or both Smile "

Okie! That's much too cruel... have some pity for poor Grawp. ; )

I would like to see Ron and Hermione and Neville and Susan together. I would love to see Lupin happy with someone, and although Tonks may not be his perfect match, she would definitely accept him as he is.

I can see Draco feeling an attraction for Hermione in a way, but nothing would come of it because of her parentage. From her point of view, she would never have anything to do with a twitchy little ferret who ratted them out to the horrid Umbridge.

I'm not sure about Luna... in so many ways she's her own woman, and while she might feel romantically inclined, she might also be distracted by the thought of finding interesting things for her father's paper.

Harry... oh Harry is a problem indeed. I really can't see him with anyone at this point of his life, even as a school girlfriend. With all he's gone through, I think someone would have to do something incredible to get his attention.

Ginny is another conundrum because I think she can see people for what they are, and if they don't live up to her expectations she might lose interest. There's not a thing wrong with that, and more power to her if she can keep from being too involved at her young age.

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Earo - Sep 6, 2003 9:00 pm (#59 of 2916)

My Mom and Dad met when they were in fifth grade. They ended up dating in high school. They eventually married and had 3 children. I kinda hope that Ron and Hermione are going in this direction. I think they are already kinda seeing eac hother already. It's true Love. I think Harry and the others are going to have more short Puppy luvs before they settle in with their one true love. Harry and Luna. Ginny and Neville.

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Gabrielle D - Sep 6, 2003 9:05 pm (#60 of 2916)

meep
I am so for Harry and Luna. She has an understanding no one has for Harry, not even Ron or Hermione. I also think that he's growing one for her.

I like the Ron and Hermione ship too... they are so perfect for eachother! Why can they see it??

As for Neville, I like the Susan Bones idea. I dont think Ginny is for him though.

I think Draco's perfect attack on Ron would be to date Ginny. She would so go for it too. Maybe they will accually fall in love/like too? could be interesting.

I dont know if Tonks is perfect of Lupin, but I hope Lupin finds someone. He is such a good person. I think Tonks needs someone who is as energetic as she is, and I think that Lupin might be alittle past that energised stage.

I hate Cho. I hope she never finds anyone. She is just a "mooch" and clings onto the popular boys and makes their lives crazy. Jelous and annoying...
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Slytherin Prefect - Sep 6, 2003 10:12 pm (#61 of 2916)

Also known as Chuda Jurian of the Snake Clan
Ginny's being possessed by Voldemort seemed to be a particularly traumatic experience for her. That being said, I don't ever see her dating the son of a Death Eater.

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Professor Kosh - Sep 6, 2003 10:37 pm (#62 of 2916)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
Also, considering how often Draco insults the Weasleys, I sure don't see him dating one. Or, even if he were to want Ginny, I don't think she would forget his actions (or the actions of his father, who she may know is the one who exposed her to the Riddle diary).

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molga parrot - Sep 7, 2003 1:38 pm (#63 of 2916)

Any thoughts on Snape relationships?

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Professor Kosh - Sep 7, 2003 1:46 pm (#64 of 2916)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
I don't see Snape having one. Given his 'prickly' personality, I can't imagine he'd get a lot of dates, and being alone in the world would help explain his continued un-personableness. I don't see any character yet introduced that would be a possibility, but there are two books left!

I'm also of the sect that believes that Snape had a thing for Lily, even despite his unpleasant remarks in the pensieve.

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timrew - Sep 7, 2003 1:58 pm (#65 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
If Snape had any hopes of ever getting a date at Hogwarts, then his hopes were well and truly dashed when his greying underpants were exposed.

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Gabrielle D - Sep 7, 2003 4:14 pm (#66 of 2916)

meep
the poor guy...

I couldn't see Snape with anyone right now either. I think he's alittle emotionally... er... slow.

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Fawkesy Lady - Sep 7, 2003 6:04 pm (#67 of 2916)

I can't help but ponder the fact that James Potter married a witch born of muggle parents -- could history repeat itself with Hermione and Ron or Harry? As for Malfoy, he will probably be forced to marry the daughter of a fellow Death Eater. From a far off corner in my mind, perhaps Hermione can fix Luna up with Viktor Krum? Let me know what you think.

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Denise P. - Sep 7, 2003 6:06 pm (#68 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Why would it be surprising that he married a muggle born witch? So far as we can see, only Slytherins seem to be focused on the importance of pure-blood. I think that everyone else is more concerned with the person than the blood line. Now, having said that, I wonder how it works to have a muggle/wizard marriage. We know Tonks is the result of that. I can only imagine that it would be a difficult thing to keep going.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 8, 2003 12:16 am (#69 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Veil: "I wonder how it works to have a muggle/wizard marriage. We know Tonks is the result of that."

I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but Ted Tonks is a Muggle-born, not a Muggle (both Tonks and Sirius say so)....

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Professor Kosh - Sep 8, 2003 3:54 am (#70 of 2916)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
Well, isn't Seamus the result of Muggle/witch mix? You can just use that as an example.

Doesn't anyone think that a Hermionie/Krum relationship might just be in the future? She is still writing to him, and writing quite a bit, guessing from the overly long parchment she wrote him in OoP.

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Denise P. - Sep 8, 2003 6:07 am (#71 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
And how many have actually SEEN a record?? Hmmm.... Sorry Sarah, I should have looked closer.

How about "Seamus has a muggle father and a witch mother, as far as we know they are still married. Seamus does make the comment that his father was rather taken aback to learn she was a witch. I would imagine a muggle-wizard relationship would be difficult to maintain."

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S.E. Jones - Sep 8, 2003 10:21 am (#72 of 2916)

Let it snow!
"I would imagine a muggle-wizard relationship would be difficult to maintain."

What do you mean exactly, Denise? I mean, their marrige would work like any other. Or, do you mean, how would one function in the other's world? I've been thinking about that, actually, and I'm not sure if the WW makes exceptions for Muggle spouses and relatives as far as the Statutue of Secrecy thing goes. I mean, Hermy's parents were allowed to see Diagon Alley, right? So, why would you be able to, say, take your Muggle spouse to a Quidditch game or be able to perform magic in front of them....?

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Denise P. - Sep 8, 2003 10:30 am (#73 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I mean that any marriage is difficult to maintain, it is work. Usually a marriage takes place between equals, when you get a muggle/wizard relationship, I can see where the muggle MAY feel inferior/unequal/less value. I think that could foster resentment in the relationship. Add in there, one trying to live in the other's world. The only example I can really point to is Bewitched...a sitcom from the 60's. A witch was married to a mortal and while it was a "happy" marriage and done for comic value, it shows the problems in having a marriage between them. If I were married to a wizard, it would begin to irk me after time if he just pointed a wand to do things where I had to labor to get done, does that make sense? I don't know that problems in the relationship would occur, I can just see where it COULD.

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Sly Girl - Sep 8, 2003 2:11 pm (#74 of 2916)

Denise, before I read your latest answer, I was going to pipe up with, "It's the Bewitched Effect"!

I understand what you mean,though.. I mean, how would you break it to your significant other that you're a witch or wizard? Regular witches and wizards don't really interact with just regular Muggle folks, do they? How would they meet? And how do you get over the fact that your significant other can disappear at will and move things without moving and turn mice into goblets?

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Professor Kosh - Sep 9, 2003 1:41 am (#75 of 2916)

Instructor, Defense Against the Dark Arts
NoVeil (Denise): I think you hit the nail right on the head there. There would be a very obvious inequity in such a relationship, and would take a bit more effort to overcome.

Not only that, but in a Muggle-wizard/witch marriage, if they lived/were involved in the WW, the Muggle spouse would have to do with the prejudice against Muggles prevalent in the WW. I mean, Arthur Weasley didn't even get a Muggle-protection act passed, implying both the need for such as well as a prevailing attitude against it. I suspect such a match might be a bit harder to maintain, but anything worthwhile is a struggle.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 9, 2003 1:54 pm (#76 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Good points, all. And, that Anit-Muggle sentiment seems to be getting worse now that Voldy's risen again (remember Arthur's comments about Muggle-baiting?), so I'd imagine there would be a general unease about your spouse's wellfare and safety....

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Griffin - Sep 10, 2003 3:49 pm (#77 of 2916)

Why is everyone so convinced that Hermione and Ron will become an item?

I know that this is the instant impression from GoF, but there is also enough evidence to strongly suggest that Hermione has a deep affection for Harry.

In the OoP there are some clues which could indicate that Harry (although unaware of his own feelings) may be leaning the same way.

My worst fear is that there will be a love triangle between them that will tear the group apart and lead to one or all of them being placed in extreme danger.

I personally favour a Harry/Hermione relationship but accept that a Ron/Hermione relationship is possible. Do not forget that JKR often leads us to one (often blaringly obvious) conclusion only to deliver another. The other of which is often concealed in hidden clues throughout the books (i.e. Professor Quirrell).

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Denise P. - Sep 10, 2003 4:27 pm (#78 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Why is everyone so convinced that Hermione and Ron will become an item>

'Cause JKR said they would, that is one major reason. Beyond that, all the signs are ripe for a Ron-Hermione 'ship...I have a ticket already to sail.

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Griffin - Sep 10, 2003 4:35 pm (#79 of 2916)

When? Where?

Is there a site that I can read the interview?

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Susurro Notities - Sep 10, 2003 6:07 pm (#80 of 2916)

Edited by Sep 10, 2003 6:09 pm
I think Harry-Luna is a distinct possibility. They are both draw attention, he is famous, she is weird. They both know things that are considered to be farfetched by others, only to be proven true. They both experience the scorn of others.

She is goofy but she intrigues him. Luna likes Harry but isn't overwhelmed by his fame and she doesn't seem to fear his connection to Voldemort.

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Ladybug220 - Sep 10, 2003 8:16 pm (#81 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Sep 10, 2003 8:18 pm
Griffin,

On the CoS DVD, there is an interview with JKR and Steve Kloves who wrote the screenplay. In that interview she mentions it but I don't know if she does anywhere else. I am sure that someone else on this forum would know. Smile

I don't see Luna and Harry getting together. I think that they will be friends but he needs someone more grounded in reality - like Ginny.

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Sly Girl - Sep 10, 2003 8:23 pm (#82 of 2916)

There is also a Barnes and Noble interview right before or right after? GoF came out that has her stating that Harry and Hermione "are very platonic friends, but that she won't speak for anybody else-wink, wink, nudge nudge." That's sort of an indirect quote.

Some of us take this to mean Ron and Hermione yes! Harry/Hermione no!, but as most Harry/Hermione people like to point out ad nauseum, you can interpret her statement as being for that book only. That arguement has always been a bit reaching for me, but hey.. whatever gets you through the days...

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Griffin - Sep 10, 2003 9:32 pm (#83 of 2916)

Thanks Sly Girl, I found that interview (or rather online discussion) and a more resent one that said roughly what you did. It can be difficult to analyse some of the things JKR says, due to her unwavering ability to tell you a fact but to leave you in doubt due to the way she said it. I must concede that it looks like there is no possibility of a Harry/Hermione relationship. This has caused me to re-evaluate most of my predictions for the remaining two books.

The sad thing is that with Harry loosing both his parents and now his godfather, no obvious relationship dawning for him and nothing but pain in his life, things do not look good for our hero.

Late addition: I just found this in a slightly older Barnes & Noble interview

Dear Ms. Rowling, I'd like to ask if there would be a lot of romances between the characters in the upcoming books?

Good question. I'm having so much fun writing Book 4 because for the first time Harry, Ron, and Hermoine are starting to recognize boys and girls as boys and girls. Everyone is in love with the wrong people. Let no one say my books lack realism.

This has confused me even more, but I will have to stay with the no chance idea at this point.

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Griffin - Sep 10, 2003 10:16 pm (#84 of 2916)

Sorry that this was not included with the previous post, but I am reading these interviews as I find them. And I have just found a very comprehensive collection. Sorry Steve if this is against the rules, please delete as you see fit, but at The Leaky Cauldron.

Anyway, two quotes from JKR by BBC Article Dec 28, 2001 and Ananova Article Dec 24, 2001 (apparently following an interview with JKR) state in no uncertain terms that it will be Harry and Hermione.

I am going around the twist here, too late I think I will have to shoot myself …. BANG …. Damn, mist, but it has ruffled my feathers!

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TGF - Sep 10, 2003 10:30 pm (#85 of 2916)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Griffin, you've got me excited, but uhhh... where are your two quotes? I just Ctrl + F'd for that thing at the end of your post in each of those articles, and got nothing.

"She even hints that one of the long-standing characters will be wiped out in the forthcoming three books.

There will also be further romance following on from Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire in which he has a date with a quidditch team-mate - and develops more of an interest in pal Hermione."

Are you referring to that? Useful thing, that, I've never seen it before... It's not half as strong as what the R/H shippers have, but its something. I wish I could find a transcript of the actual interview that the article is based on... Still, however, it is something.

These are all on Quick Quotes by the way.

And Griffin, don't surrender to the R/H shippers until you see it happening in the books. I agree with you completely about Harry and Hermione, and frankly am glad to see that I've some companionship on this board over the issue. I was beginning to think that I was the only person left in the world who believed in the inherient compatability of the two... Seeing someone else supporting my viewpoint is heartening, to say the least.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 10, 2003 10:44 pm (#86 of 2916)

Let it snow!
There is also the quote, though, from ComicRelief Interview March 12, 2001

Q: Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
A: The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire

What interview is that quote from, TGF? I thought that was some paraphrase or prediction from someone who wasn't too much in the know....

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TGF - Sep 10, 2003 10:55 pm (#87 of 2916)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Ananova December 21st, 2001.

It derives its information from a television profile of JKR that reportedly aired on Dec. 28th on BBC1... There actually is a summary in the very next entry (Apparently, I am an idiot)... however, while being very detailed for the first 1/2, kinda just glosses towards the end... rather unsatisfying.

AND NOW BOOK FIVE: TITLE IS "ORDER OF THE PHOENIX."

Talks about Boy/Girl stuff.

Oh yeah, that's thorough... nice job Quick Quotes! Ack, I'm going to bed now, will take up fight tomorrow.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 10, 2003 10:58 pm (#88 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Don't give up hope TGF. I may not agree with you but I have to admire you determination....

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Griffin - Sep 10, 2003 11:10 pm (#89 of 2916)

Sorry, actual quotes and web address:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ananova Article December 24, 2001

“She even hints that one of the long-standing characters will be wiped out in the forthcoming three books.

There will also be further romance following on from Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire in which he has a date with a quidditch team-mate - and develops more of an interest in pal Hermione.“

BBC Article December 28, 2001

Romance The profile of Rowling reveals that she sketched out the plots for all seven books long ago. Rowling has sold 100m books worldwide She promises dramatic developments - "there's at least one death that's going to be horrible to write" - including more romance. Rowling said that more "more boy-girl stuff" was inevitable: "They're 15 now, hormones working overtime. "Harry has to ask some questions, that I hope the reader will think: 'Well, why hasn't he asked this before?'"

Film Harry has already been interested in a "quidditch" team-mate in Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire, the fourth book in the series - but will now develop more of an interest in Hermione, one of his best friends. The film of the second book, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, is already in production and scheduled for release in the middle of next year. The four Potter novels so far have sold more than 100 million copies, while the movie is breaking box-office records worldwide.

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Water Witch - Sep 11, 2003 2:04 am (#90 of 2916)

Harry and Luna. Oh no please. Why is it that every time a new character appears in the books they automatically have to become somebody's love interest? I think that JK Rowling created Luna for an entirely different reason than romance. It seems to me that she is there to alert Harry to the possibility of the alternative and the absurd and to also juxtapose Hermione.

Personally I wouldn't ship her with anyone.

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Water Witch - Sep 11, 2003 2:10 am (#91 of 2916)

I've seen this 'develops an interest in Hermione' thing bandied around so much and it seems absurd as it is merely based on a reporters own second hand assessment of the book rather than a direct quotation from Rowling herself. It is just shippers clutching at straws. Whatever you think must be drawn from what you personally read into the pages rather than on what someone else thinks. Rowling herself in all her interviews has actually given nothing away about Harry's final romantic destiny. She only ever speaks in very vague terms and leaves it up to the listener to decide, in fact more recently she has become even more cagey than ever.

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Sly Girl - Sep 11, 2003 2:23 am (#92 of 2916)

I agree, it does sort of look like the article's author is saying that bit about Hermione and not JKR herself. It's like how in the Newsweek article they said Harry was going to riding the Nimbus 2002 and not the Firebolt...it's like an added bit. But What I don't understand is the reference to Harry having a date with a Quidditch teamate in GOF.. I mean.. HUH? First of all, he crushes on Cho, who plays Quidditch, but she is hardly a team-mate, second of all, he doesn't even 'date' Cho in GOF but goes with one of the Patils. (And if you notice- the article contradicts itself by saying Harry will date a team-mate in one line and then later says he'll develop an interest.)

Also- the sentence about Harry asking questions.. very fishy there. I mean, the way the article has it set up, it looks like Harry needs to ask questions about romance, when we know she just meant questions about things in a more general sense- this was part of the pre-OOTP stuff. The line here is completely taken out context.

I don't know, H/H shippers.. this all seems like fairly dodgy stuff here...

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S.E. Jones - Sep 11, 2003 6:23 am (#93 of 2916)

Let it snow!
There was also the line that the reporter said about JK hinting that one of the main three characters was going to die because she said something about there being one death that's going to be so horrible to write. I'd say this death was Sirius in OotP. So if the reporter got that wrong, what else did they misinterpret?

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Griffin - Sep 11, 2003 7:39 am (#94 of 2916)

Sly Girl and S E Jones: I would suggest that both of you go to the provided link an read the full articles. Both articles are on alternate days after the release of GoF. Do you really think a reporter would be giving out predictions of a book that is already in publication?

The fact that both articles are so close to each other suggest that they came from the same source, granted we can not be sure of that source, but the BBC is not in the position of making things up on this type of subject.

S E Jones: No where in those articles does it mention that one of the three main characters dies, its long-term characters.

Water Witch: Excellent last point. However, I don’t think that it is a reporter’s point of view since two (I presume) separate reporters use almost identical phrases. Like you said though, JKR refuses to give away anything of the major plot points before the release of a book, this works for the interviews as well as the articles.

I think that there is enough doubt now that I will stick with my original position (someone will have to slap me if I change my mind again), TGF I’m with you – Harry/Hermione. To everyone else I would suggest re-reading GoF and OoP with an open mind. When ever you think you have found evidence of R/H look for where Harry is and what he has just done. At the end of OoP look for how protective of Hermione Harry becomes. Don’t forget that an argument entered on half way trough does not tell you what the argument was actually about.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 11, 2003 12:35 pm (#95 of 2916)

Let it snow!
No, I think the reporter was giving predictions about OotP, which they got wrong, might I add....

Griffin, I was admittedly inferring the "long-standing" character was a "main" character based on some other articles I read last night. However, I don't see how Sirius could be considered a long-standing character since we only really saw him at the very end of PoA and in GoF by the time the interview was made.....

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Gabrielle D - Sep 11, 2003 2:26 pm (#96 of 2916)

meep
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

very bottom

Harry and Hermione are "platonic friends". No 'ship there.

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Sly Girl - Sep 11, 2003 2:32 pm (#97 of 2916)

I don't know, my whole take on this is as follows: I get yelled at by Harry/Hermione people whenever I use the JKR quote about Harry and Hermione being 'platonic' friends. To them the quote's not good enough because 1) she's just talking about one book only (yeah right) and 2) "Do you really think JKR would give something like that AWAY? She's cagey.. she's coy.. she likes to play with the press.. blah blah.."

Harry and Hermione people cannot have it both ways. You cannot say JKR doesn't let things slip about stuff and then turn around and use dodgy articles as proof.

And Gryffin, personally speaking,I don't need to be told to read a book with an open mind. I'm sure most people don't. This isn't an attack, just a point. Anyone who believes different from you could very well tell you to do the same thing, so let's not tell people they've been reading things with blinders on.

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TGF - Sep 11, 2003 4:47 pm (#98 of 2916)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Edited by Denise P. Sep 11, 2003 4:50 pm
While I loathe to agree with Sly on anything to do with this issue, I'm afraid I do on the issue of the articles. While they are interesting, they aren't in the books and until something happens within the books, possibilities remain open. So don't worry about those two articles, Griffin, there's plenty of other things to employ.

Name me another instance where JKR has headed-off a major potential plot point within these books within an interview. Why doesn't she just tell us how Harry defeats Voldemort while she's at it...

And frankly, without the interview, armed with textual references alone, the R/H shippers can NOT prove beyond doubt that this will come to pass. They can bring them forth, certainly, but those can be poked full of holes and refuted. I should know, I've been doing it for over a year.

I will bring up a rather important point here, which is the fact that Hermione and Ron are not, as many predicted in the pre-book 5 stage, dating. In fact, I fail to see how their relationship has evolved at all from where it stood in book 4. It's the exact same thing, with Ron being jealous of Hermione's supposed attraction to Krum and Hermione reacting in the same basic almost-fed-up way, along with a few other instances. Now, I'm sure the replies to this will be pelt me with a bunch of those instances, which I'll be happy to address... but the fact remains that in one full year of being in close proximity to one another, neither person, despite their supposed subconscious love for one another(or whatever), have escalated the relationship. If I didn't know what kind of wrath it would attract, I'd be tempted to use the word 'platonic' myself...

As Griffin has pointed out, however, there has been what can be argued as an evolution between the relationship between Harry and Hermione... Harry appears rather protective and watchful over Hermione during the battle of the DoM. This, of course, is a point which can be disputed but it is a point nonetheless.

I have a lot to say on this subject, but I think what I've got up there is good for now...

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Denise P. - Sep 11, 2003 4:52 pm (#99 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
TGF, you can debate issues, discuss them, rip them to shreds but doing the same to a person, no matter how off hand, is not acceptable. Thumper always gives sound advice, listen to him.

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TGF - Sep 11, 2003 5:10 pm (#100 of 2916)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
...
What'd I say? Are you talking about my reference to Sly at the beginning? I'll edit it out if so... I didn't think anything in there was offensive, I read it over carefully and I just read it again now...

Err... maybe you should E-mail me (tgf40@hotmail.com) so as to not drag this off-topic.

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Elanor
Elanor
Hufflepuff Prefect
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'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) Empty Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 101 to 150)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:42 am

Griffin - Sep 11, 2003 7:10 pm (#101 of 2916)
TGF What did you say? I don't quite understand the caution either. If it is the loathe comment, I must say that I do not loathe to agree with anyone. However I am surprised to see a comment that I took at first sight as a way of saying "you have an excellent point" has brought forth the wrath of Thumper (joke on the wrath bit). Your comments seem fair and I stand by you with what you said.

Sly Girl sorry if it seemed that I was having a go. There was no attack meant on anybody. I was just trying to put across my own approach to the problem. If truth be known, the first two times I read the book, I would have agreed with you 100%.

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Denise P. - Sep 11, 2003 7:12 pm (#102 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I emailed TGF. The line in question was edited out Griffin, you didn't see it more than likely.

This is not a big deal, please don't make it into one. If TGF has an issue with the line I removed, we will discuss it off the board. I am not upset with anyone, I was just making a general statement that holds true for EVERYONE on the Forum.

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TGF - Sep 11, 2003 7:24 pm (#103 of 2916)

Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Griffin, I just reread my post and I noticed a 'edited by Noveil4me'... Yeah a little piece of a paragraph was cut out, I didn't notice at first, but I suppose what was in there might've possibly offended someone. Sorry for not noticing it at first. No need to speak of the matter in the thread anymore, this thread is for shipper debate... :-)

EDIT: Denise posted just when I did Razz

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Griffin - Sep 12, 2003 6:17 am (#104 of 2916)

This is just a thought on another approach to this discussion that might prevent circular arguments.

Has anyone considered what the consequences would be to the plot line when two of our trio start to date? By looking at the problem from this angle we might throw up some new ideas on which relationship is the more likely. Anyway here are a couple of thoughts to start with:

1. Hermione starts to date Ron. Like most dating couples they will undoubtedly like to spend a lot of time alone to allow their love to grow. This may have the effect of isolating Harry from both of his best friends. Since he is already reluctant to share certain problems with them, Harry could find himself becoming more and more isolated. Given that he is already in a lot of emotional pain, he could be driven to a nervous breakdown or possibly feel that he has nothing much to live for. If this is in his mind when he faces Voldemort (despite the fact that Samurai warriors reckon that the only way to fight is to be prepared to die) Harry may well lack the will to win, or he may not care if both of them die.

One good point to this scenario is that Harry will be forced to rely on his own abilities more and should develop his own skills faster. As a side point, anyone expecting to hear a lot of details about this relationship may be very disappointed. The books are almost exclusively written from Harry’s point of view (the things he witnesses), other than Ron’s recounts of the dates and an occasional mention of their happiness, we would not find out much about it.

2. Hermione starts to date Harry. Ron becomes very jealous and stops talking to both of them (again). Their love grows and for the first time in his life, Harry has the all the wonderful things that are related to such a love. Even though Ron is upset, Harry still has Hermione to confide in and finds that this helps support him through the trials ahead. Harry’s “power the Dark Lord knows not.” is feed by this love and grows stronger. Towards the end of book 7, Hermione is placed in life threatening danger by Voldemort which is the catalyst that drives Harry to destroy him.

The good points are the opposite to those in possibility 1.

Just some thoughts of the top of my head which I’m in no doubt can be ripped apart. However, which relationship goes the furthest in enriching the plot lines?

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S.E. Jones - Sep 12, 2003 6:32 am (#105 of 2916)

Let it snow!
"Harry could find himself becoming more and more isolated....Harry may well lack the will to win, or he may not care if both of them die. One good point to this scenario is that Harry will be forced to rely on his own abilities more and should develop his own skills faster. As a side point, anyone expecting to hear a lot of details about this relationship may be very disappointed."

I like this possibility (yeah, big surprise). Harry needs to rely more on his own abilities because in the final battle it has to be him versus Voldy alone and unaided. And as for not seeing details, that's perfect. No one wants these books to turn into romance novels. We shippers realize these romances are sub-sub-subplots and are perfectly happy for them to be; we don't need detail.

"Harry has the all the wonderful things that are related to such a love.... Harry’s “power the Dark Lord knows not.” is feed by this love and grows stronger."

I agree that finding someone would be a great help to Harry as it might make him more emotionally secure and it ties in nicely with a theory of mine. But, why couldn't this happen with another character other than Hermione? The character wouldn't have to have a big impact on the storyline, aside from the romantic connection to Harry, thus keeping the romance in the shadow of the main plot....

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Neville Longbottom - Sep 12, 2003 8:17 am (#106 of 2916)

Griffin: "1. Hermione starts to date Ron. Harry may well lack the will to win, or he may not care if both of them die."

I don't believe this. Harry will always care, if Ron or Hermione live or die, no matter what happens.

Maybe, if they start to date, Harry will spent more time with someone else (Ginny) and fall in love with her.

I don't really care who will end up with whom, (with one exception: Neville and Luna. I so want these two to get together), but I am convinced that everything is leading to a Ron/ Hermione pairing, and I will be really surprised, if these two don't become a couple.

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Griffin - Sep 12, 2003 8:28 am (#107 of 2916)

I was talking of Voldemort and Harry, but I had not considered both Ron and Hermione dieing. Interesting thought, but a little to cruel for me.

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Neville Longbottom - Sep 12, 2003 8:39 am (#108 of 2916)

Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Stupid me.

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Sly Girl - Sep 12, 2003 1:43 pm (#109 of 2916)

Now, Neville... no one is stupid here. We may sometimes write without thinking, but stupid? Never. You have the smarts to have selected the Lexicon, so you've already fought half the battle.

The first theory is interesting, but I don't see why Harry couldn't turn to someone else, should his two best friends pair off. JKR has already shown us that Harry is slowly (oh ever so slowly) turning to others to help him- look at Luna and Neville and Ginny, to a certain extent.

Harry loves both Ron and Hermione. He feels protective of them both. Although, and this is entirely sexist, I think, he is more protective of Hermione because she's a girl. I know he knows she's clever and bright and smart, but I think there's some innate boy-thing going on and he feels as though he has to protect her. Call it chivarly. Which of course, is a Gryffindor trait. I don't personally think this points to him developing deeper feelings for Hermione, but just that he is growing up into the kind of man that would protect a woman from harm.

Now the 2nd scene, is intriguing and I think it might play out that way, but again, it doesn't have to be Hermione that fills that role. (yeah, big surprise there, huh?) But before we consider this 2nd scene let's first consider this: To love someone else, to love them enough to die for them, you have to first love yourself. Does Harry love himself? I think he holds onto a lot of the grief he experienced as a Dursley prisoner deep within him. I think he beats himself up over things he shouldn't. Does Harry think he's even worthy of love, at this point? I know he likes girls, is aware of them, but is he mature enough to handle the kind of love you're expecting the 2nd scene to create?
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Gabrielle D - Sep 13, 2003 10:53 am (#110 of 2916)

meep
Harry strikes me as the kind of person who is going to be very hard to get to, emotionally. He really doesn't know love to well, he has only just experienced the kind of love a family should give with the Weasleys.

I dont think Harry is ready for love like the kind of love his parents, or the Weasley parents have for eachother. Perhaps it is going to take him much more time to aquire the feeling for that. He knows what it's like to like, to crush, on a girl, but he isn't capable of real love... at least not yet.

Besides, Harry has way too much on his mind to think about a girlfriend (especially since now he probibly thinks that all girls are as confusing as Cho). He's got Moldywarts to worry about.

I also do think he is protective of his friends, and Hermione more so than Ron. Yes, it is an old fashoned way to look at it, but it seems thats just the way Harry is.

Ron is protective, but in a different way. I dont think he thinks Hermione is uncapeable to take care of herself (not like Harry does), but I think Ron likes to have Hermione to take care of. Realize how Ron was so jelous in book four after the Yule Ball, he like's having Hermione there to be ready for him, but its subconcious. I also think Hermione feels the same way for Ron, but she knows what's going on.

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Sly Girl - Sep 13, 2003 1:17 pm (#111 of 2916)

I think both Ron and Harry protect Hermione, like I said, it's that chilvary thing going on. They both know Hermione can take care of herself, but Ron, especially stands up for her. In fact, if you want to really think about it- they all really stand up for each other. Which is what makes them such a great trio. Maybe I'll change my vote to trio instead of twosome. They seem much stronger together then they are apart and each one of them brings something into the forumula that's needed.

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Donna Bright - Sep 14, 2003 10:34 am (#112 of 2916)

My ship preferences...Harry & Ginny, Ron & Hermione. Why? Well, Ron and Hermione seemed destined for each other. In SS Ron is the one making derogatory remarks about Hermione. Classic romance novel stuff. Boy and Girl meet, Boy and Girl detest each other. Boy and Girl get to know one another. Voila, Boy and Girl fall in love. There is all that bickering, and Hermione always refers to Viktor in front of Ron. She is definately trying to get him jealous enough to say something to her.

Why not Harry and Hermione? Well, for one thing, if Hermione was secretly in love with Harry, I couldn't see her advising him about Cho. That's the last thing I would have done. I've had that particular experience. There was no way I would have told my inamoratta how to get the other girl.

Why Harry and Ginny? Because they are becoming friends. Harry is starting to see Ginny in a different light. Maybe not romantically, yet. But I think we will see him look at Ginny in a new way. She did point out to him their unique connection. She has been the only other person in his peer group to have been in close contact with Voldemort. And, I think she is taking a page out of Hermione's book. All those other boyfriends, do you think she is trying to get Harry jealous?

Or, are those other boyfriend, and this is really throwing a spanner in the works, a way for her to avoid a relationship with Harry. Knowing what she knows, and how Voldemort used Harry's love for Sirius against him. She is trying to keep away until the danger has passed?

Maybe this is pure romaticism on my part, but I think we will see Harry develop feelings for Ginny. Ginny realizing this would make Harry vulnerable, would rebuff him. (Hmm, just like Lily rebuffed James) Ron, who really does want Harry and Ginny together (witness that little scene on the train in OotP) tries everything he can to get them together. In the end (oh! I have been reading too many romance novels) true love wins out.

One of the main reasons I want to see Harry and Ginny together, is the balance it would lend to the story. At the very beginning we see Harry alone and unloved. No one to share with, no one for him to love. In the end, if Ginny and Harry get together, he finds himself in a large and loving family. A place where he is loved and accepted for who he is. A place where wherever he turns there are people who will always be there for him.

I definately have been spending too much time in front of the Mirror of Erised!

D
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Ladybug220 - Sep 14, 2003 11:45 am (#113 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Sep 14, 2003 11:46 am

Yay!! Another H/G and R/H shipper!! Welcome to the forum Donna.

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Sly Girl - Sep 14, 2003 12:37 pm (#114 of 2916)

Just to be clear, we welcome all people to the forum, not just R/H H/G shippers. We all love some lively debate around here, so nobody should feel bad about expressing their opinion. Just play nicely.

I still think the idea of Harry being ready for love is a valid question and I'm surprised it hasn't garnered more debate..

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Haggis and Irn Bru - Sep 14, 2003 1:03 pm (#115 of 2916)

I think that he has to deal with a lot of things first. He has to be able to express his emotions in a more mature manner.

For example when he was annoyed he went off on one and let rip to his friends just after he arrived at Grimauld place rather than explaining rationally that he was so upset. he got mad at his friends at other times even though they were on his side.

He went headlong into the MOM without giving a single thought to the fact that he was being manipulated.

He prefers to deal with things alone rather than sharing with other people. Especially after visiting St Mungos and when Sirius died. This inability to share would be problematic in a realtionship.

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G-Dawg - Sep 15, 2003 12:15 am (#116 of 2916)

Howdy! I am new to the Forum, so bear with me...

I currently believe that Harry will remain a bachelor until he and Lord Thingy have settled the matter between them. I just cannot see him trying to start a relationship with anyone. I can honestly see him focusing solely on devising ways to defeat Riddle, and not really putting any real effort into developing a relationship.

However, IF Harry were to start a relationship, my instincts say it would be with Ginny, not Hermione.

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Donna Bright - Sep 16, 2003 6:08 am (#117 of 2916)

G-Dawg, there is merit in what you say. I think in book 6 (boy, I wish we knew the title) one of the subplots will be Harry's dealing with his breakup with Cho, and the discovery of a new relationship on the horizon. I think that will be with Ginny, though. I think they are both smart enough to realize that this means trouble. They have both been intimately involved with Voldemort. This will probably what draws them closer together. Yet, they realize that starting this type of relationship is inherently dangerous.

What will make this more exciting in plotting (and this is certainly just my opinion) is that Ron really wants Harry and his sister together. Since Ginny said she wants to try for Chaser, and Ron is already on the team this puts the three of them in close contact with each other. I can see Ron pushing the relationship. And Hermione is not above pushing Harry on. Witness her prodding in OotP. She initiates the conversations about Cho with Harry. She sees his crush quite plainly. BTW, this is one reason I cannot see her with Harry. What girl in their right mind would push the boy they like into a relationship with someone she sees as a rival. Certainly not logical Hermione.

Let's face it, shipping is a very important part of a teen's life. I have a teenaged daughter and she talks to me about all the stuff that goes on in her school. It seems that the kids love lives are almost as important as their school work.

I can also see Ron and Hermione being drawn closer together in a very amusing way over this. Can't you just see them arguing about Harry and Ginny and then Hermione grabbing Ron and kissing him, or the other way around? I am looking forward to this. But, of course, JKR has her own ideas. She has got the story firmly fixed in her mind and she does love to twist and turn our suppositions around. I don't think I will mind very much how all this 'shipping turns out, as long as Harry, Ginny, Hermione and Ron are happy in the end. Battered, bruised, enduring many horrible things, but in the end an ending that is satisfactory. After all, if she wants us to continue buying any books that she writes. She does have to resolve the story in a way that she won't betray her fans.

Just one more thought, I find her work very Dickensian. When reading these stories I was put in mind of how horribly abused Dickens made his heroes and heroines. Yet in the end, they found happiness. But this is a discussion for another thread.

Boy, this view I am getting from the Mirror of Erised is getting better and better. Help, pull me away!

D

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Fawkesy Lady - Sep 16, 2003 8:21 am (#118 of 2916)

Donna, you have said a mouthful and I agree with you. I would love to see Harry with Ginny. In regard to Ron and Hermione, isn't Ron dumbstruck with she shows up for the dance looking incredibly beautiful, or is this just my hope to what happened.

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Donna Bright - Sep 16, 2003 8:48 am (#119 of 2916)

Fawkesy Lady, you are absolutely correct in Ron's reaction. I really giggled and thought that Hermione was right about him. He is incrediblly thick when it comes to her.

Ron is starting to "grow-up". He still has a long way to go, but I see him really maturing as the series goes on. I never thought of him as just Harry's sidekick. He never was the character who brings just comic relief to the series. He is Sirius to Harry's James. A bit reckless, I just wanted to shout at him when he convinced Harry to go to Hogsmeade when he wasn't supposed to. A lot smarter than we give him credit for, look at how he came up with all that stuff for Divination homework. Ron's a great strategist for one so young. His chess game in SS is a perfect example. As brave as, if not more so than Harry, look at how he enters into the dangerous stuff along side Harry. There are so many other qualities he exhibits, loyalty, humor, steadfastness...

Well, time to get off my soapbox.

D
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Fawkesy Lady - Sep 16, 2003 9:59 am (#120 of 2916)

I think Ron will come into his own, especially now that he is not just known for being a Weasley, but for his talents. I think that Hermione might develop a secret crush sort of like Ginny had for Harry in CoS.

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Water Witch - Sep 16, 2003 1:59 pm (#121 of 2916)

I am curious as to why there is so much interest and pro-Ginny feeling at a site which is patently, if in the closet, pro H/Hr. This confuses me. If this be not the case then why do we have such a pro H/Hr deposition in her section? As a fairly neutral shipper but Ginny fan I was very surprised by this.

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Jenny M. - Sep 16, 2003 5:25 pm (#122 of 2916)

Donna, I have a few addenda to what you've said. First, Harry doesn't have to be Ginny's husband to be part of the Weasley family - he already is! Remember, in the start of OoP, Mrs. Weasley's boggart showed her family's deaths- and Harry's. Not Dumbly's, not Sirius', but Harry's. Harry is part of their family. Second, JKR has no "obligation" to tell the story her fans want to hear. Her only obligation is to tell the story she wants to tell. And if that has Harry dying five minutes after pledging his undying love to Pansy Parkinson, so be it. Not that I want that - I'm a Ron/Hermione Harry/Luna Ginny/Neville shipper - but more than I want 'my' ships, I want JKR to tell the story as she first envisioned it, before she knew Harry would take off into our hearts.

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Olivia Wood - Sep 16, 2003 5:55 pm (#123 of 2916)

Undisputable evidence: Hermione is an alien.
Water Witch: How do you figure? I was actually under the impression that the H/Hr ship was a large minority, just judging from the posts... Althought I may not be totally unbiased, being a R/H, H/G shipper myself. Smile

Anyway, there's still a lot of neutral or undecided people, and all the other ships. It's not like people who don't subscribe to a particular ship are shunned from the forum...

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S.E. Jones - Sep 16, 2003 6:46 pm (#124 of 2916)

Let it snow!
A large minority, Olivia? Is it large or a minority?

Just wanted to address something as far as Harry being capable of real love or not. I think he is most definately capable of it. Will he get to experience it? Well, that depends on JK. I think it would be very interesting to see him actually fall in love and find someone to whom he feels safe enough to spill out his heart and soul to. I agree, though, that it might take more to get Harry to where he needs to be emotionally to feel this kind of love, but I also know from experience with people in my own life that this kind of love can also sort of sneak up on you and open you up emotionally in ways you didn't realize possible. There is a difference between him finding love and love finding him.....

As far as Harry growing up enough emotionally, well, that'll come with time and age....

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Fawkesy Lady - Sep 16, 2003 7:17 pm (#125 of 2916)

Jenny M. you said it!!! As much as we can talk and give ideas, I would like JKR to tell it the way she envisioned it, because that is the way it was supposed to be. And the fans will accept it!

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Water Witch - Sep 16, 2003 10:41 pm (#126 of 2916)

Sorry I was not meaning to be contentious. Ginny is one of my favourite characters and I have watched her development and speculated on her role and personality since Book 1.

One of the first things I read at this site was her section which includes an essay briefly mentioning her and then proceeding to concentrate entirely and irrelevantly on why Harry and Hermione are ideally matched. I am afraid seeing as this appeeared in the Ginny section I wrote the site off as just another shipper site and never came back for about three years!

Posting at other sites there is also a feeling that this site is pro H/Hr. I have only recently ventured back here and was presently surprised that I was not the only one who rated her as a character and did not simply spend four books assuming she was struck dumb by a crush on the boy who lived.

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Donna Bright - Sep 17, 2003 12:53 am (#127 of 2916)

Jenny M said - Donna, I have a few addenda to what you've said. First, Harry doesn't have to be Ginny's husband to be part of the Weasley family - he already is! Remember, in the start of OoP, Mrs. Weasley's boggart showed her family's deaths- and Harry's. Not Dumbly's, not Sirius', but Harry's. Harry is part of their family.

Yes, Molly does consider Harry a part of the family. But Harry still does not. He was not ready to enter Arthur's ward in OotP. He only came at Molly's insistance. Harry still needs something "official". He readily accepted Sirius as a parent figure because Sirius was his godfather.

And yes, certainly JKR does not have an obligation to tell us the story we want to hear. She must stay true to herself. Yet somehow I cannot see her killing Harry off. He is a beacon of hope in the midst of dispair. At least that is how I see him. I am just trying to say that I hope that the conclusion is a satisfactory one. And here we come to that pesky prediction. Neither can live while the other survives. I know a lot of people see this as ambiguous. Let's face it, JKR loves to play with words and people's perceptions. But to me this is really rather straight forward of her. One of them is going to die. To see Harry fight through all he has been through, for me, to have him triumph and then die, would not be in character for JKR. Plus, I think the word "live" here does not connotate mere existance. I think she meant have a life with all its attendant joys and sorrows.

D

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Fawkes Forever - Sep 17, 2003 3:54 am (#128 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I've put off posting on this thread for some time as I'm still quite confused about the whole, who will end up with who senario... so I'm guessing that I'm a neutral shipper.... for now!

I believe JKR is a very clever woman & will surprise us all in the end... Remember she never seems to do what we expect..... (well with the exception of the death in OotP... come on, hands up who knew it was Sirus??? - *well I had narrowed it down to either Sirius or Hagrid*)

As for R/H. From previous quotes from Ms Rowling re. 'something going on', I think it's safe to assume that something is going on.... We all know Rons 'fancies' Hermione... but, (& I'm not convinced by the arguement in GoF) we don't really know how she feels. She's very much aware of Ron's crush.... (even if he isn't) but hasn't acted on it. Besides, it could be a preservation thing.... after all, if she did make a move.... Ron might 'freak', we all know he's not too mature in the whole boy/girl thing

OotP casts a bit of light on the R/H situation... We get a little hint from Hermione when talking to Harry after his date with Cho. When he says 'he doesn't thinks she (hermione) is ugly' (or some words to that effect), Hermione tells him that he's 'as bad as Ron', in complementing her... but then adds....(sighs actually) 'No well, Rons worse' (again I'm power phrasing... dont have my copy of OofP on me). This leads me to believe that Ron is always complementing her & not always within earshot of Harry! BUT, I think she likes having Ron's attention.... & is jealous if anyone else expresses an interest in Ron, or Ron in someone else! Perhaps she doesn't want him 'moving on' until she knows how she feels & what to do about it!

She does love him (as a mate), but I think she's confused, those hormones don't help! She did kiss Ron on the cheek in the great hall right before his quidditch match... but that could be considered as a goodluck thing... (ohhh JK why do you do this to us )

Harry & Hermione.... I used to think.... no, not ever! But after reading OotP.... I'm now completely confused! He's very protective of her... & sorry is it just me, but whats with the whole grabbing Hermione & pulling her out of harms way/behind a tree/unto the ground thing in OotP????? Harry Potter action hero... but, maybe I'm reading WAAAY too much into this! She loves both Ron & Harry dearly, I just don't think she has worked out if she is interested in either as a potential boyfriend..
Remember they are teenagers... they never know what they want... until they think it's too late.... it adds to the whole angst vibe

JK has added some more people into the mix, Ginny, Luna, etal, which adds to more speculation & loads more fun for us forum members We suspect Luna has a little 'thing' for Ronald. I do like how Ginny has moved on from Harry. Perhaps thats something the rest should do.... move on. I'd like to see them with other people... for a while anyways until we see what plan JK has for them.

I think what JK had to say for this herself in the Jeremy Paxman show on BBC says it all [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

JP: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?

JKR: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories - and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever...

Thanks JK.... but I'm even more confused than ever

EDIT : Bloody Hell... what a long post (new record?)
I did ramble on a bit there... profound apologies.... but it's my 2cents worth.... actually make that 5 euro & 2 cents

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Denise P. - Sep 17, 2003 6:22 am (#129 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
How did the Forum get labeled as a 'shipping site? This thread is the only one out of almost 300 that focuses on potential 'ships.

I am on the good ship Ron/Hermione. I am not sure I want to sail on the 'ship Harry/Ginny although I will at least consider it after OoP.

Really though, Water Witch, 'ships are way down on my list of things that I contemplate when discussing and reading Harry Potter.

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Fawkes Forever - Sep 17, 2003 6:55 am (#130 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Personally I'm more concerned with the 'will everyone make to the final chapter & beyond' issue. Never mind who skips off into the sunset with who.... it's fun to speculate though!

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fidelio - Sep 17, 2003 8:50 am (#131 of 2916)

Yeah, I have to admit, that from my perspective, this is 'one of those things kids go through' and I haven't worried about it too much. I apply the same theory to my nieces and nephews--when the wedding invitation shows up, I'll sit up and notice.

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Caitlin McCoy - Sep 17, 2003 8:58 am (#132 of 2916)

Fierce are the winds that I blow before me
That's the same way I feel about it.

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Griffin - Sep 17, 2003 9:15 am (#133 of 2916)

Strange!
I have always considered the relationships between Harry, Hermione and Ron as the backbone of the books. It has always been the dynamics of their group that have lead and shaped the stories. Would not any long-term change in their attitudes towards one another cause a profound effect on the structure of the remaining books.

In the UK we have a name for people who keep hanging around couples. It is “Gooseberry”, as teenagers it is a mark of social death. When I was a school/college I witnessed it happen several times. It always ended in a blazing argument and the estrangement of the Gooseberry. Not something I would like to see happen to any of the trio.

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LilyP - Sep 17, 2003 9:31 am (#134 of 2916)

I'm of the mind that R/H are almost a given. I think Ron is still a bit dense about his feelings on the matter, but that's typical of the age. (Most of the guys I knew needed an anvil to fall on their heads before they realized.) As for Harry/Ginny - I hadn't really considered it until the very end of OotP. There was a very specific look Ginny gave Harry just before she said she was dating Dean. As we all know, JKR doesn't put that stuff in for nothing.

My speculation is that Harry will be very introverted and distant upon returning to school in September. Ginny will eventually become his confessor. Their relationship will become closer throughout the year (although - again being a teenage boy - and quite dense, he won't realize his feeling until at least the middle of book 7.) I also wonder if this relationship will have something to do with the conclusion of the book (love)? But I'll leave the rest of that speculation to another thread.

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Sly Girl - Sep 17, 2003 10:12 am (#135 of 2916)

I have to touch on something Water Witch said, because for the life of me I find it really funny that he/she thinks this site is H/Hr when in fact, I've been told by others that this site is very pro R/Hr and that H/Hr shippers are minute minority and don't like to post here... just goes to show that you cannot please anyone any of the time. lol

NoVeil is right, Water Witch.. this site is very low on the shippers profile. We have one thread that discusses it now, out of... how many? 300? Even before OOtP we only had a couple of Will Harry Potter fall in Love type of threads, and that was sprinkled with a fair representation of all types of ships. So I'm sorry that you cut yourself off from experiencing this wonderful forum for so long, but it's really been your loss. Anyone who even just spends a week on this forum knows that all points of views are discussed and accepted. True, people will argue with you about things, but if you're not prepared to back things up, then yes, the theory or idea may get neglected. That's just normal internet behaivor. Since Ginny is one of my personal favorite characters, I honestly cannot remember seeing an essay about why she wouldn't be good for Harry, but it has been a long year too...

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S.E. Jones - Sep 17, 2003 10:24 am (#136 of 2916)

Let it snow!
"& sorry is it just me, but whats with the whole grabbing Hermione & pulling her out of harms way/behind a tree/unto the ground thing in OotP????? Harry Potter action hero... but, maybe I'm reading WAAAY too much into this!"

Okay, I've seen this mentioned several times before as pointing to a possible 'ship between Harry and Hermy. Can I just say, what would have happened if he hadn't grabbed Hermione and pulled her out of harm's way? A giant mistook one of his best friends for a toy and, big surprise, he pulls her out of the way. A bunch of centaurs try to trample one of his best friends and, surprise, he pulls her out of the way again. Okay, some of the arguments for the H/H ship I can buy, but I think all this shows is that Harry doesn't want to see his buddy Hermione get turned into a puddle of goo....

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Denise P. - Sep 17, 2003 10:32 am (#137 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I have always considered the relationships between Harry, Hermione and Ron as the backbone of the books. It has always been the dynamics of their group that have lead and shaped the stories.

Griffin, I agree. When I said I don't focus on the 'ships...I meant in a romantic way. I don't care if any of the trio ever date or who they do date. I like the dynamics of their friendship and how it has changed and evolved in the series.

If the series were to turn into Days of Harry's Love's at Hogwarts, I would find another series to sink into.

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Griffin - Sep 17, 2003 12:37 pm (#138 of 2916)

Very true, and I feel the same way.

However, JKR has hinted in no uncertain terms that there is something in the air. I worry about the effect this romantic relation ship will have on the trios’ friendship. To be more accurate, the effect it will have on Harry, after all the two must impact on each other.

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LilyP - Sep 17, 2003 1:02 pm (#139 of 2916)

I think H/R/H trio is going to be strained in at least the next book, simply because of all that Harry is dealing with. It was bad in OotP because Harry was so angry, now he's got the prophecy to deal with too. There is going to be a real strain on them all, simply because Harry is feeling so isolated and he will probably start pulling away. We started seeing it at the end of OotP. (And I think that is going to open things up for another character- but I won't go into all that again). It seems to me that any "romantic" relationship between R/H will come because of their isolation from Harry.

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Fawkes Forever - Sep 18, 2003 4:40 am (#140 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Fair point SE, just thought it was worth mentioning.... It could also be used to reinforce the whole vulnerablity in Hermione issue.... (as mentioned in her thread) but hey I'm not going to go into that here. Being honest I agree with you, I do think it's just Harry saving his friend

LilyP.... hmm, now there is a thought.... Harry going off & doing his own thing, leaving Ron & Hermione on their own.... but we have to remember, they where without Harry for most of the summer in OofP, & for most of the school year (when Harry was in a mood) & nothing happened then, but then they are another year older this time round!

Hey, who knows... (well JK does), but as for now, I'm still a non shipper whos slightly pushing towards the queue for a R/H ship.... but sure, we will see!

Would be nice to hear of Ron actually going on a date though, & not necessarily with Hermione.... now that would put the cat amongst the pixies

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Anna Katarina - Sep 18, 2003 9:14 am (#141 of 2916)

I see Ron dating Luna at least one time, and Hermione not liking that too much. (Have a mental image of her hair going all wild and her eyes shooting Luna down at once.)

Anna

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LilyP - Sep 18, 2003 9:37 am (#142 of 2916)

Oh, now I like that idea, Anna Katarina. That would really jump start things!

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Rose Marie Zadorojny Vilella - Sep 18, 2003 11:24 am (#143 of 2916)

She-who-must-not-be-named
Haggis and Irn Bru- no no no, it's Ron+Hermy, that's very obvious! AS for Harry.... tan tan tan TAN! he'll end up with Ginny. J.K Rowling has been hinting it.. in the end of OoP, when Ron says to Ginny "next time choose someone...better". As he says this, he looks at Harry. But even before this I had a feeling. And I would like Snapè getting with someone,too, but I don't think that will happen!

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Anna Katarina - Sep 18, 2003 12:19 pm (#144 of 2916)

No, don't get me wrong. I don't mean that Luna and Ron will 'ship it. Just that SHE will ask him out (who thinks Luna doesn't fancy Ron?) and that will push Hermione over the edge and Ron and Hermione lives happily ever after, Amen.

Anna

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S.E. Jones - Sep 18, 2003 3:55 pm (#145 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Rose Marie Zadorojny Vilella, please remember that everyone here is allowed their own opinion, you can disagree (heck, what is a debate for) but please don't tell anyone their opinion is wrong. (BTW, I happen to agree with you that it'll be Ron and Hermy....)

Anna, you know, I didn't get a single hint through the entire course of reading OotP that Luna liked Ron. I figured all her staring and such was just Luna being Luna, I mean, she also stared at Harry, Neville, and Hermione. (My brother got it though, from the few bits I read to him, and made fun of me for not getting it.) I keep thinking of the way Ollivander stared at Harry, like he was trying to read something there that no one else could see, and that's the way I pictured Luna staring at people.....

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::StinkerBell:: - Sep 18, 2003 5:09 pm (#146 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
personally

I think Harry will come around and fall for ginny, she might not be to sure, for he has broken her heart before.

It'd be fun to see hermione be with some one else and see ron go mad. he defiantly likes her.

As for nevile, I'm not all to sure, he seems to be growing up alot more than others. luna doesn't seem to be all in for the "love" thing. not yet. maybe

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S.E. Jones - Sep 18, 2003 8:39 pm (#147 of 2916)

Let it snow!
LongLiveSnuffles, welcome to the Forum. I know our members, especially those who don't use English as their first language, greatly appreciate your use of proper punctuation. Please try to also use proper capitalization in your posts as well, to make them even easier to read. If you don't use English as a first language and find capitalization difficult, just let us know and we'll try to help, you'll find we're a very understanding group. And again, welcome to the Forum family....

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Susurro Notities - Sep 18, 2003 9:50 pm (#148 of 2916)

Edited by Sep 18, 2003 9:52 pm
Anna Katarina. I like your vision of Hermione glaring at Luna but of course Luna wouldn't notice!

S.E. Jones. It does seem that Luna is taken with Ron but I also think your thought about Luna staring at people as though she could "read something there that no one else could see" is intriguing. There is much more to Luna than meets the eye maybe she CAN see things other's can't.

One of JKR comments that I found interesting is about the marital status of some of the teachers. Question: "Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses?" Answer: "Good question - yes, a few of them but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why." (http://www.comicrelief.com/harrysbooks/pages/transcript3.shtml).

In PoA Dumbledore, McGonagall, Snape, Sprout, Flitwick, Filch, and Trelawney stay for Christmas dinner. Where are the rest of the professors? Are they with a spouse perhaps? Is it possible that two or more of the professors at the dinner are married to each other? Or as the question is asked in the past tense is JKR responding that yes some professors have HAD spouses. Do they still?

I hope this is an appropriate topic for this thread. It is after all a relationship question.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 19, 2003 6:25 am (#149 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Yes, it's an appropriate topic. In fact, we've brought it up here already, somewhere, althought I don't think the discussion went very far. I was curious if perhaps the information would be relevant because one of the professors might have a child that could become relevant to the plot somehow. McGonagall, for instance, is old enough to have children around Snape's age.....

There was also an interesting theory raised before, possibly back on the EZboards, that Snape was married to Lucius's sister and that's why they were so close. I find it an intriguing idea, though I'm not sure how probable it is.....

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Michelle K. - Sep 19, 2003 5:34 pm (#150 of 2916)

I think this is how the 'ships will turn out and why:

Ron/Hermione: Mostly because they didn't get along in the begininng and look at them now they are best buds. Love grows in strange ways and these two have it writtne all over. They do spend a lot of time together without Harry, now that they are Prefects.

Neville/Ginny: I never liked Harry with Ginny, it's like he's with his own sister. Neville is the next great character as I see it and Neville will grow on Ginny. Plus it beats my Ginny/Draco 'ship in my fan/fic. (It was written before OOP came out)

Harry/Luna: Not forever but I think they will get closer and Luna will stop being so weird. I acutally have begun to think Luna will die in the end. Harry will be alone in the end, like Sirius.

Lupin/Tonks: Just because I like those two and they seem funny together. MK

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'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) Empty Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 151 to 200)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:43 am

S.E. Jones - Sep 19, 2003 6:33 pm (#151 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Hm, I know what kind of uproar I'm gonna start with this, but... I found a JK interview today discussing OotP from Dateline NBC, June 20, 2003:

Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?”
Rowling: “Hermione and Harry?! Do you think so?”
Couric: “No I’m kidding.
Rowling: “Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more tension there...

Also, from ComicRelief Interview March 12, 2001:

Q: Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
A: The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire....

I'd say these two, along with the infamous "platonic friends" quote make it look like JK is going with R/H....

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Mrs. Sirius - Sep 19, 2003 10:18 pm (#152 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I know many of you don't like the Harry + Ginny 'ship because that would be like Harry is dating his sister, but that is precisely why I think it is Harry-Ginny. Harry has no family, he is all alone. Ron is the closest thing to a brother that he has. Harry and Ginny together would seal the Harry-Ron brotherhood. Plus Harry has relationships with all of the Weasley's as individuals from their first encounter on platform 9 3/4 in PS/SS. When Ginny heard who Harry was on the train, she wanted to go see him. She started to cry when the train left. I don't think she was crying just because her brothers were leaving.

I don't believe that their relationship will necessarily be seen in book 6 or 7. At the age of 16 and 17, I think it might be suggested taking place sometime in the future

Harry: are you ok Ginny? Ginny: yeah, can you walk? Harry: yeah Ginny: here lean on me. (she takes his hand, he leans on her and they walk of stage right into the sunset). Of course before all of that the question is: will Harry survive?

Likewise, I think Ron + Hermione. Their relationship started on the Hogwarts Express with a lot of tension. Many relationships that start out with antagonistic beginnings end well. And I believe that JK likes those relationships, look at James and Lilly.
Luna is there for a good reason I just don't really see romance as that reason.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 19, 2003 10:31 pm (#153 of 2916)

Let it snow!
"When Ginny heard who Harry was on the train, she wanted to go see him. She started to cry when the train left. I don't think she was crying just because her brothers were leaving."

I'm not trying to argue with you exactly, but I've seen this "she wasn't just crying because her brothers were leaving" thing before and I just don't get it. Why was she crying then? She couldn't have been in love with him or anything, she was 10 and she only saw him once. If she had been interested in him at all prior to finding out who he was we would have heard her trying to get onto the train while Harry watched from his window. I think she wanted to go see him for the same reason Fred was wondering if he remembered what Voldemort looked like, because he was the famous Harry Potter. She may have been used to Percy, Fred and George leaving for Hogwarts every year but it was the first time she would be without Ron at home. Thus, I think she was crying just because her brothers were leaving, plain and simple. So, I ask again, why was she crying if not for her brothers? Because she missed the chance to see the famous Boy Who Lived?

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D4RKFIR3 - Sep 20, 2003 1:58 am (#154 of 2916)

Edited by Denise P. Sep 20, 2003 2:01 pm
Personally,I really don't favour Harry+Ginny' ship,because I think they just don't match!But it seems that it is a big possibility,though.If things are to be ended like this,I would rather prefer Harry+Hermy...

Well,this is what I really prefers:

[1]Harry+Luna

[2]Hermy+Ron

[3]Draco+Cho

[4]Ginny+Justin (quite a rare combination)

[5]Percy+Penelope

[6]George/Fred+??

How's these?

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Daphane Kingsley - Sep 20, 2003 6:07 am (#155 of 2916)

Romance Confusion>>Who Will Ends Up With Who??

Well....this forum is set up to let all those Potter fans write in and share your personal opinions about who Harry,Hermione,Ron or even Draco will most likely ends up with in the end of the story.

To start off, I will share with you all that I have heard that the author of the Harry Potter Series books,J.K Rowling,had hinted during an interview that the character who will end up with Harry,is someone that is mentioned all along in all the books that has came out.

So this is the big clue for start of guessing...but it's really going to be a tough job because, as we all know,J.K Rowling is an expert in writing twists in stories,so we couldn't really predict what her plans are for each and every character until we reach the very end.

However,I feel that this can be a somewhat relaxing and enjoyable thing to do as we are stucked in book 5,not knowing what's coming up next,we can let our imagination run wild a bit......i look forward to hearing smart guesses from you guys out there.....

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Sly Girl - Sep 19, 2003 10:29 pm (#156 of 2916)

Daphane, welcome to the forum.. please be advised that we already have a thread that discusses these details in depth. Please refer to the search function to find specific posts or feel free to read the current 'Ship-Ship' thread above. Also, please refer to the Philosophy of the Forum and be advised that we do expect people to use capital letters in their posts because some of our members do not have English as a first language and as well, a small 'i' can sometimes create italics.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 19, 2003 11:44 pm (#157 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I can understand how the title of the "Ship, Ship" thread may have been confusing for you. A "ship" refers to a relationship and a shipper is someone who advocates a particular relationship (for instance a Ron/Hermione 'shipper thinks Ron and Hermione will be an item). The "Ship" thread is the designated thread for general relationship speculations and these theories do need to be restricted to it so as to cut down on the overall number of posts (there are bound to be plenty more before Book 6 comes out). We try to avoid repetitious threads, that is two threads discussing the same topic, for this same reason. I think you'll find plenty of interesting stuff at the 'Ship thread, though, plenty of interviews and proof from the text to back various theories. So, take a look and have fun with it....

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Donna Bright - Sep 25, 2003 3:01 am (#158 of 2916)

Or could Harry pulling Hermione out of the way have anything to do with her proximity to him? He did not know who was behind him in the Dept. of Mysteries. He just trod on the closest foot behind him and was surprised to hear Hermione's voice.

I don't think this points to a romantic 'ship between them. It seems to me that Harry thinks of Hermione like a sister. In GoF, he insists that Hermiony is NOT his girlfriend. There is no indication that this in any way makes his feelings for Hermione change. When he witnesses the row between Ron and Hermione, he agrees with Hermione, not Ron, seeing her point in the argument. I think Harry realizes that Ron and Hermione do have some kind of feeling for each other and will do nothing to jeopardize his own relationship with either of them.

D

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Griffin - Sep 25, 2003 9:34 am (#159 of 2916)

At last the infamous argument.

We do not know what the argument was about. Harry interrupts Ron and Hermione after the argument had started. The argument itself:


“Well, if you don’t like it, you know what the solution is, don’t you?” yelled Hermione; her hair was coming down out of its elegant bun now, and her face was screwed up in anger.

“Oh yeah?” Ron yelled back. “What’s that?”

“Next time there’s a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!”

“Ron mouthed soundlessly like a goldfish out of water as Hermione turned on her heel and stormed up the girls’ staircase to bed. Ron turned to look at Harry.

“Well,” he spluttered, looking thunderstruck, “well – that just proves – completely missed the point -”


Goblet of Fire, page 376 (UK), J K Rowling

The line “ask me before someone else does,” seems to refer to the passage:


”Well – you can come with one of us!”


Goblet of Fire, page 349 (UK), J K Rowling

Not me, but US!

1. Hermione may have been referring to either Ron or Harry.

2. Why would Ron blatantly lie to Harry about the argument? The line “Well,” he spluttered, looking thunderstruck, “well – that just proves – completely missed the point -” reads very fluently and seems an unlikely lie. Had Ron just not been able to communicate his argument effectively? Thus Hermione was lead to the wrong conclusion.

3. Harry jumps to the same conclusion that most people jump to; Hermione is normally right so she is right this time. We have no evidence as to what the argument was really about. Is this a cleaver ploy by JKR to mislead the readers, it is certainly a possibility.

In conclusion I feel that this is a poor argument to support either relationship.

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mischa fan - Sep 25, 2003 12:22 pm (#160 of 2916)

Easy being green, it is not
Griffin, you must also take into account that during the Yule Ball Ron is very angry that Hermione has shown up with Krum, someone that was a Hero to Ron, Ron even had a Krum figure, that he destroyed shortly after Hermione pointed that fact to him. I think it is logical to conclude that Ron and Hermione's argument was about her going to the ball with Krum, and I think Hermione's conclusion could be correct as well.

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Griffin - Sep 25, 2003 1:04 pm (#161 of 2916)

During the Yule ball it is true that Ron is very indignant about the fact that Hermione is with Krum, but the bulk of his arguments are about Harry. Krum is competing against Harry. Krum is trying to get closer to Harry. He wants you to help him with his egg (to compete with Harry?).

Curious, definitely.

Miss directed anger, possibly.

Conclusive, definitely not.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 25, 2003 5:34 pm (#162 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I think the fact that Krum was competing against Harry was just an exuse for Ron to be mad at Hermione because he didn't want to admit that he was starting to have feelings for her. The way I see it, Ron probably didn't realize he had these feelings until he found out that Hermy was going to the Yule Ball with someone he didn't think of as a friend, and more importantly, someone who he doesn't see as a friend of Hermione's but instead a possible boyfriend.... This realization made these feelings come to light.

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Mrs. Sirius - Sep 25, 2003 11:22 pm (#163 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
SS Jones, I do believe that I did post at least part of my theories on the 'ship at least once before on one of the boards. The basis to my theory to a large part, is that I believe many great relationship start out contentious or with separations and also that JK has been quoted as saying something to the effect of -Harry will end up with someone who has been there from the beginning-. I believe that Harry has a 'ship, an important relationship, with every member of the Weasley family.

I've just gone back and re-read that scene on platform 9 3/4. When the twins go back and tell their mother they just HP, she immediately takes a mother's protective stance and starts to protect Harry. (At the end of GoF Mrs. Weasley hugs Harry in the infirmary "like a mother").

I think the twin's future with Harry on the Quiddich pitch starts with them helping him when they first meet. Even his relationship with Percy, which by OoP is of estrangement is foreshadowed by the no contact on the platform.

His relationship with Ron starts almost instantly and progressively solidifies. They are thrill seeking adventurers, comrades in arms, they develop a relationship that is best of friends, to best friend-brothers. While I don't think Ron (or the other members of his family) would ever abandon Harry or consider him anything less than a brother, Harry is not so sure. When they go to visit Mr. Weasley at St. Mungos, Harry holds back when the "family" is to visit first and brought in by Mrs. Weasley.

This leaves Ginny. When she hears that the boy who lived is on the train she wants to go see him. Yes, I do think that there is a certain amount of the celebrity watching fascination. But she has been denied that chance to meet that person she's heard of all her life, and now her brothers are going to be with him and she's being denied! Although I don't believe that Ginny is in love with Harry after a very short sighting at a very young age, her interest in him as a person has been peeked. Then she has almost a whole to year to hear about him before she sees him a gain. I find both in real life and in literature that many relationship that start with a chance encounter then a separation and re-unification work well.

Which leads me to my theory (which maybe just a little bit sexist). I think if Harry and Ginny end up together that will seal for Harry his relationship with all the Weasleys. He would certainly be a member of the "family". Young men as they mature into manhood often leave behind childhood friendships. If Harry and Ginny were togehter his relationship with Ron would be established as more than just that childhood friendship. Molly could then be an official parent substitute. And even his business relationship with the twins would be more than just financial.

I think JK created a very strong base of support for Harry. He understands that with DD and Hagrid, with the Weasley's he still needs something to solidify it. This is my opinion based only on a mixture of literture, pop culture and personal experiences. I like everyone else wait with baited breath for HP and ....

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Carla Hodge - Sep 26, 2003 2:42 pm (#164 of 2916)

I'd just like to add a grumble about the "not appropriate to discuss a character's sexuality" comment. If it appears in the books, then it would be very appropriate. I don't like the idea that until it's discussed in the books, it's not a topic to be touched.

I'm fully aware that it would be difficult to give the topic full justification and explanation if it was anyone other than Harry, as the difficulty of arriving at such a decision might not be fully explored and could be seen as a way to create a more diverse, PC world.

This forum has discussed topics such as slavery and Nazis, there's no reason to put someone's sexuality at a lower level than the Nazis.

Sorry, grumble over :-) No offence intended towards the author of the comment (can't remember who it was in all honesty), but that bugged me a little.

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Marie E. - Sep 26, 2003 2:52 pm (#165 of 2916)

Remember that this forum is frequented by children, some as young as ten. I wouldn't want my daughters reading about anything that I hadn't already discussed with them. We can assume (?) that the children who have read the books and are posting here are doing so with their parents knowledge and permission. Therefore, it is necessary to stay within the guidelines of the books and of the Forum creator, Lexicon Steve.

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Sly Girl - Sep 26, 2003 2:54 pm (#166 of 2916)

Carla, the reason that statement was said is because talking about sexuality in a wide open forum such as this one, leads to trouble. If this were a controlled environment and we were all mature, responsible people, I'd say yeah- it is a topic worthy of discussing, but the fact is, this forum is open to people as young as 10 and as old as 63. That is a WIDE range of people from different backgrounds, different countries, different beliefs. I do not think talking about sex and sexuality works in these types of enivronments, so it was closing the lid on something before it became a can of worms. The WX forum standards restrict discussion on certain topics and yes, sexuality is one of them. I also don't think that many of the parents of our younger members would appreciate them learning about certain things from a Harry Potter forum.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 26, 2003 2:55 pm (#167 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I think the exclusion of sexuality has more to do with the presence of our younger members. The topics of slavery and the Nazi movement are openly taught in history classes in schools. They are also topics which, for the most part, no longer exist in the world at large and so there is a smaller chance of someone being upset by a comment relating to them. Plus, JKR, herself, has made the comparison between DEs and Nazis and has referred to the elves as slaves. We have, in the past, had members whose posts were edited when discussing these topics, myself among them.

EDIT: Hey Sly, you just beat me by a minute... Glad to know great minds think alike, aye?

EDIT II: Didn't see you either Marie...

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Mayme Fitzgerald - Sep 27, 2003 12:38 pm (#168 of 2916)

I have always had a fondness for Ginny, even before her personality was more fully developed in OotP, and found as I was reading OotP that both Ginny and Luna seem to connect emotionally to Harry better than Hermione or Cho. Harry seems to be able to successfully hide his feelings from Hermione when necessary, as she so frequently wants to stop him from doing something he wants to do. Of course, she is often right, but not always. Ginny, on the other hand, is more practical, and if she believes Harry is determined to do something, she helps him find a way. He REALLY needed to talk to Sirius about his father, she recognized that, and enlisted the help of Fred and George. Similarly, Luna is almost the anti-Hermione. Where Hermione is all logic and reason, Luna is mystical and open to possibilities. She can explain things to Harry that Hermione simply cannot. Both approaches have their value, but Ginny seems to be more of a happy medium. In the first two books, Ginny seemed focused on the negative of being the youngest of seven, being teased and being poor. In OotP, she seems to have assumed all of the positive characteristics of other members of her family. She is loyal and witty like Ron. She is a shrewd rule-breaker and jokester like the twins, who can perform very complicated spells. She is smart, like so many others in her family, and nurturing like her mother. Harry seems to be noticing her more. I think they will get together at some point, but whether or not that is forever, I'm not sure. Harry risked everything to save Ginny in CoS, and I fear Ginny might have to do the same for Harry in the end. On a lighter note, I see Snape with someone dangerous. Is the mysterious Professor Sinistra a woman? Could they be linked romantically? And could she betray him to Voldy? Just a thought.

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Sly Girl - Sep 27, 2003 3:43 pm (#169 of 2916)


Similarly, Luna is almost the anti-Hermione. Where Hermione is all logic and reason, Luna is mystical and open to possibilities. She can explain things to Harry that Hermione simply cannot.<


Actually you're very right in that estimation as JKR has used those very words herself to describe Luna.

And I do believe that it's been determined that Sinistra is indeed a woman.

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Donna Bright - Sep 27, 2003 6:05 pm (#170 of 2916)

Mayme Fitzgerald wrote: "Harry seems to be noticing her more. I think they will get together at some point, but whether or not that is forever, I'm not sure. Harry risked everything to save Ginny in CoS, and I fear Ginny might have to do the same for Harry in the end."

Here is one scenario that I think might happen...Ginny has never really gotten over Harry. But as smart as she is, she figures that if she and Harry were to be together, it would give Voldemort a weapon to use against Harry, just as he used Sirius.

She cares too much for Harry to let that happen. So she hides her feelings and goes out with other boys. She also has first hand experience of how truly evil Voldemort is. She will fight him, because of what he has done to her family. (Lucius using her to destroy her father's career in CoS, the almost murder of her father in OotP.)

I can see Harry being more and more attracted to Ginny. Ginny is the only other of his peers who has had direct experience with a near death incident with Voldemort. She herself pointed out to Harry how her own experience could have helped Harry, if only he had asked. She is brave and resourceful, and Harry will realize this when he has had time to think about the events at the end of OotP.

Of course, at the time the horrible events were happening in the DoM, Harry still thought of Ginny as a little girl, but she did point out to him that she was three years older than he was when he faced Voldemort in SS.

Again, I am just speculating, but I think there will be a point in book 7 where Harry and Ginny must deal with their feelings. Being the true romantic that I am, I can see them finally casting their concerns to the wind and becoming a couple.

Yes, I am a firm believer in "Happily Ever After". Even though these books are taking a darker turn, they are still just "magical" enough to give us hopeless romantics the ending we would so enjoy. But, having said that, JKR just loves to play with our suppositions and turn them inside out!

D - just hoping JKR gives me the rip roaring tale she has been hinting that she will supply!

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::StinkerBell:: - Sep 27, 2003 9:50 pm (#171 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
I think that Harry wont be thinking about love for a while, how could he? Maybe towards the end of the 6th book. But I do agree with Donna Bright, I think that some thing will happen between Ginny and Harry.

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S.E. Jones - Sep 28, 2003 1:29 am (#172 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Harry might not want to be thinking about love but I think he needs to. He needs something to experience love in multiple aspects, as love is the major power he has that Voldy does not. I also think that he will slowly isolate himself from his friends and it may take something as strong as falling in love to break away those protective walls....

BTW, just in case you're all curious, from the ComicRelief Interview March 12, 2001
Q: Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny Weasley?
A: You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?

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Susurro Notities - Sep 28, 2003 8:01 am (#173 of 2916)

Edited by Sep 28, 2003 8:02 am
Good insight S.E. Jones. I hope Harry begins to receive some overt displays of love from Lupin, Dumbledore, Moody (?)... in addition to Molly as the love affairs of teenagers are notoriously fickle. Maybe Harry will chose better this time!

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Madame Librarian - Sep 28, 2003 1:42 pm (#174 of 2916)

I don't think it's essential for everyone to end up in a 'ship of huge romantic proportions. After all, these kids will be just 16 and 17. Even in the WW that strikes me as awfully early to settle down (James and Lily notwithstanding). I do believe that if VWII is over, and everyone can breathe a sigh of relief, they might indulge in the pairings of normal teens and young adults. I can see a final scene in Book 7 where no overt pairing up occurs, just an intimation that Harry and Ginny (yeah, I think that's who it'll be) will find eventually each other.

Something like this:

Harry, after all is said and done, and the world is saved, is sitting all by himself in a cloakroom just outside the big party room. Ron's boogy-ing with Hermione, everyone yammering and whooping it up around the punchbowl, even Lupin is dancing with Tonks (do not take this as predictions about who lives; I'm just offering a possibilty of the scene). Harry's not depressed exactly, just feeling like, OK, now what? Is it really over? Do I have to be a great leader now? What's the future hold? In pops Ginny to see if he wants a butterbeer not to pester him to join the festivites (she understands a bit what's on his mind), and then she smiles and leaves the room. Harry slowly sips the butterbeer. A small bemused smile appears on his face, he nods slowly, and he utters a single word, almost in a whisper, "Ginny."

The End

Ciao. Barb

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mischa fan - Sep 28, 2003 3:41 pm (#175 of 2916)

Easy being green, it is not
Anyone here think Filch and Figg will end up in a relationship.

They both like cats and are both squibs I think they would make a great couple.

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timrew - Sep 28, 2003 4:12 pm (#176 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Arabella Figg is protective of Harry, and, all in all, seems like a very nice lady.

Filch is a Psycopath with yearnings to whip students and chain them to walls. He is almost crying with pleasure at the thought of doing this.

The only thing they both have in common is the fact that they are both Squibs who love cats.

I don't think that bodes for a lasting relationship.

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Ladybug220 - Sep 28, 2003 4:19 pm (#177 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Sep 28, 2003 4:19 pm
Madame Librarian, I think you should write some fan fiction - I liked that scenario! Obviously I am a Harry/Ginny shipper....

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Madame Librarian - Sep 28, 2003 4:27 pm (#178 of 2916)

Why thanks, Ladybug, I just might someday. I love writing snippets, but I get bogged down on longer pieces. *sigh*

Ciao. Barb

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Neville Longbottom - Sep 28, 2003 4:52 pm (#179 of 2916)

@ Filch and Figg: Why not? I actually would like it, if she hit him with her bag full of cat food from time to time. Smile

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::StinkerBell:: - Sep 28, 2003 9:04 pm (#180 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
Sounds fine, I can just imagine... Harry walking in to Ms. Figgs house where Filch and Figg are now sharing a cup of coffee in front of the fire...

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Weeny Owl - Sep 29, 2003 12:36 am (#181 of 2916)

Madame Librarian, that was positively brilliant! If I don't like the way JKR ends the books, would you write an ending for me?

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Susurro Notities - Sep 30, 2003 7:43 pm (#182 of 2916)

As I was writing in the Lupin thread I realized I had a thought that belongs here. Lupin reminds me of Peter O'Toole in Good bye Mr. Chips. Bright, somewhat of a loner (undoubtably due to his condition, and inattentive to personal appearance. Is Tonks his Petula Clark?

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Madame Librarian - Sep 30, 2003 8:42 pm (#183 of 2916)

Thank you, Weeny Owl, I had fun writing it.

Something has been bugging me about it for the last 2 days, however. It's not right the way it is. JKR has stated that the very last word of book 7 will be "scar." So, I guess a minor edit of my original post (#174) is in order. Hmmmm...let's see if this works:

...A bemused little smile appears on his face, he nods slowly and utters a single word, almost in a whisper, "Ginny." Harry nods again and takes another slow sip, and touches the spot on his forehead where there used to be a scar.

OK, now I feel better.

Ciao. Barb

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::StinkerBell:: - Sep 30, 2003 9:47 pm (#184 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
How old is Tonks? I always Imagined her at least 19, and I think that Lupin is like 40.....is there something wrong with the age difference? I mean, it could work......maybe.....

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Susurro Notities - Sep 30, 2003 10:31 pm (#185 of 2916)

Tonks must be between 20 and 24 given her auror training. Lupin is only 35 (same age as Snape). The age difference is not huge. Petula Clark was younger than Peter O'Toole too, that was part of the attraction.

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Weeny Owl - Sep 30, 2003 10:43 pm (#186 of 2916)

Madame Librarian, again, excellent!

I love the idea of Lupin and Tonks. I think he needs someone with her quirky nature in his life, and she would accept him as he is. Plus, I think he'd accept her, clumsiness included. I think they could complement each other very well.

I don't think their age difference is such a major problem since aging in the Wizarding World isn't the same, and even if it were, age doesn't always matter.

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Donna Bright - Oct 1, 2003 2:40 am (#187 of 2916)

Or, Madame Librarian, how about this...

"Now, it's off to bed with you," the woman with the fading red hair said to her grandchildren.

"Thanks, Nanna," said the little boy with messy black hair and almond shaped green eyes.

"And what have you been telling them now, Ginny" Harry said as he came in from the kitchen with a steaming cup of tea in his hand. He brushed back his greying hair out of his eyes and walked over to his wife placing a kiss on her cheek.

"Just telling your grandchildren how you got that scar."

^--^ D

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Madame Librarian - Oct 1, 2003 5:02 am (#188 of 2916)

Donna, I love it!

Maybe we should start a thread:

"The Last Few Lines of Book 7"

Or, is that more suited to FanFic (they would be so short, not sure it qualifies as full-level FanFic). Let us ponder this...

Ciao. Barb

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Denise P. - Oct 1, 2003 6:25 am (#189 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
You are more than welcome to go over to the FanFiction Forum to start a "Last Few Lines of Book 7" thread. The main Lexicon Forum is not set up to deal with fanfiction.

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Donna Bright - Oct 2, 2003 3:29 am (#190 of 2916)

NoVeil4Me, this is an intriguing idea. Being new to posting in forums in general, I do need a bit of help to get this started.

How do I get to the FanFiction Forum to start this thread?

I thought to start this by putting my little ending up first with the following rule:

Must not be longer than 200 words and must end with the word scar.

Madame Librarian, as you can see, you have peaked my curiosity. Perhaps we can pursue this, to our mutual delight as well as those not confident enough to write a full story, but would like to try their hand at just a short idea. (That is certainly my case.)

D

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Madame Librarian - Oct 2, 2003 4:54 am (#191 of 2916)

Donna, I'll watch for the new thread on FanFic. Just title it clearly and it should be OK. I'll let one of the hosts guide you on starting the FanFic post because I've not ever done one there. I suppose my post on this thread should be re-posted there. I'll do it in a bit; I'm running late for work.

Ciao. Barb

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Oct 2, 2003 7:48 pm (#192 of 2916)

My theory: Hermion will get into trouble, and Harry will end up saving her (not a big huge deal tho), and then they sort of go out for a while. This makes Ron sooo jealous. Then since I dont' see it as totally working out between Harry/Hermy, Hermy finally realizes that it's Ron she's always been in love with. So then Ron and Hermy hook up, and Harry is left without anyone again, which he doenst complain too much about because he knows it could always put people in danger to be that close to him. Thus I'm a "H/H + R/H + H/no one" shipper Smile

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::StinkerBell:: - Oct 2, 2003 9:59 pm (#193 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
I wonder if JK can have a foriegn exchange student and she catches Harrys eyes....a bit far fetched~ but I always love new characters.....It be neat...

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S.E. Jones - Oct 2, 2003 11:07 pm (#194 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Or maybe a transfer student (as in transfering from another school)? Do you think they have those in the WW?

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Sly Girl - Oct 3, 2003 12:53 am (#195 of 2916)

I know enough Fan Fics have been written based on both of those facts. LOL So I think it is a viable option for JKR to take, but I don't think she will. Either Harry is going to end up alone OR it'll be with someone we've already had the pleasure to meet.

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Phineas - Oct 3, 2003 2:02 am (#196 of 2916)

I don’t understand why everyone seems to think that everything between Harry and Cho is finally over? And why everyone hates the girl so much?

We hardly know anything about her – all information we have is that she is good-looking, good at quidditch, popular and (being in Ravenclaw) is supposed to be smart. We can safely assume that she is a decent person (she is sincerely sorry when she has to disappoint Harry, she joins the DA, and she respects Cedric’s memory). We also must not forged that during the events in OotP she is in a really terrible emotional state – loosing her boyfriend is bad enough, but there is also the shock of Voldemort return – and Cho is totally unprepared for it; and her family and her friends, who believe the version of MoM hardly can help her.

So accusing her that she to soon forgot Cedric and started running after another celebrity is a bit unfair – I think she starts seeking Harry’s company, because he’s someone who knows what is all about and who can help her deal with the new reality (and actually at the moment when the majority think Harry’s a nut , “running” after him would be a rather stupid move, if she cared about his status).

Cho is often criticized for being unnecessarily jealous. This is really unfair too. She is uncertain about Harry’s feelings, and he’s much better at hiding his feelings than in expressing them. It is Cho who starts all conversations, she “corners” Harry and tells him she likes him and she actually asks herself out. At the same time Harry spends most of his time with Hermione… What is Cho supposed to think? It will take too much space to analyze all the reasons that lead to her breakup with Harry, but nothing suggests that Cho is in any way unsuitable or unworthy. Both she and Harry make loads of mistakes – they are immature, uninformed, overemotional and uncertain, but there is nothing either can be really blamed for.

So there is no reason to believe they can’t possibly sort the things out. It is true that Cho starts going out with Michael Corner, but that looks rather like trying to make Harry jealous and/or to hide how hurt she is. And is too hasty to jump to the conclusion that Harry’s got over his infatuation only on the grounds that he seems to have lost interest in many things he had found important in that different universe where Sirius was alive.

We’ve been led to wrong conclusions so many times, that it seems almost useless to make any predictions, but most likely in my opinion is that Harry will end with Cho after all, and of course Ron+Hermiony.

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Donna Bright - Oct 3, 2003 3:09 am (#197 of 2916)

Madame Librarian, thanks for the idea. It is now on the FanFic forum under "The Last Few Lines of Book 7". So far, there are some really fine posts.

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Denise P. - Oct 3, 2003 6:11 am (#198 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I don’t understand why everyone seems to think that everything between Harry and Cho is finally over? And why everyone hates the girl so much?

Hmmm, could be because Harry is clueless during their date and gets her upset, they argued about Marietta and Cho is dating someone else? Those were big clues that things are over between them

I don't hate Cho, I think she was a non-character character until OoP. Then, she was the human hosepipe. I find her dull, flat and uninteresting.

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 3, 2003 6:42 am (#199 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Human Hosepipe..... hee hee, I love it. You don't mind if I use that sometime Denise?

I agree, the Cho 'thing' is over with.... Harrys' got over it! Which leaves book 6 open to a whole new world of possiblities!

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Denise P. - Oct 3, 2003 6:53 am (#200 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Fawkes, feel free. It is not mine though, Harry referred to her as a human hosepipe

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'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) Empty Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 201 to 250)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:44 am

Fawkes Forever - Oct 3, 2003 7:05 am (#201 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hee hee, missed that... hmmm must read it again...

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Sly Girl - Oct 3, 2003 3:29 pm (#202 of 2916)

Yeah, I would say we think the 'thing' between Harry and Cho is over because we read book 5. It's very obvious to me that JKR is, as a writer, getting rid of an unneccessary character. As for not knowing anything about her... hmmm book 5 showed me enough, thank you very much. I think Cho honestly liked Harry, at first, but then it got confused with her memories of Cedric. But she should have never tried to get close to someone else when she was still obviously mourning Cedric. She wanted Harry to comfort her and tell her about Cedrics death and take care of her- she had no interest in being with Harry to just be with Harry. I mean, why take your current boyfriend to the place you went with your former dead boyfriend, especially if all you're going to do is sit there and cry about what the two of you did together? Not a healthy start to a relationship with anyone, let alone Harry Potter.

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Donna Bright - Oct 3, 2003 3:56 pm (#203 of 2916)

We haven't seen the last of Cho, though. She is still a member of the DA. I think she still carries residual feelings for Harry. After all, she still had feelings for Cedric when she was trying to establish a relationship with Harry. I think there is the potential for a Harry/Ginny/Cho triangle subplot in the next book.

But if not a triangle, I think that the Cho/Harry thing will have reprecussions with any relationship that Harry and Ginny might want to establish. The possiblities are endless. Whoops! My penchant for romantic relationslips is showing (no, that's not a spelling error).

D

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Sly Girl - Oct 4, 2003 12:07 am (#204 of 2916)

Ack. I hope we've seen the last of her. I didn't really care for her before (like Denise said, she was a non character, character) and I really don't like her after book 5. I think her and Michael will be a nice perfect fit and I also don't see her staying in the DA for some reason either...

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::StinkerBell:: - Oct 4, 2003 12:20 pm (#205 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
Sly girl~ I love your Pic! Pippin and Murry.......ah..... oh! Back to the topic....I really have never disliked Cho, I just never thought she was right for Harry, the fact that he liked her was the reason I wanted them together, for his happiness...... I'm not entirely sure who......But some one "better"......where have we heard that before?.......

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Sly Girl - Oct 4, 2003 12:25 pm (#206 of 2916)

Snuffles.. Smile Thank you. I adore Merry and Pippin too!

Hmm.. I think you're referring to Ron looking at Ginny and talking about Michael.

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::StinkerBell:: - Oct 5, 2003 10:25 am (#207 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
Yes, I was...I was implying that I think Harry and Ginny might be together in the later books....

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Dunja - Oct 5, 2003 11:54 am (#208 of 2916)

Hi everyone! And what about Sirius's 'ships? He was around 35 when he died, around 20, before Azkaban, and he probably had an affair before, well 'couse of his description in pensieve. (Excuse my mistakes, I'm not from an English-speaking country)

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Oct 5, 2003 2:29 pm (#209 of 2916)

Good question Cleo. Too bad we haven't reall heard of any female characters from the whole MWPP era, except for Lily, who i think would have been an unlikely person to be dating Sirius, and I thik if id did happen that would have been inferred to or something by now. Wow I love run on sentences. This shows just another reason for my hopes to learn more about MWPP's peers when they went to Hogwarts.

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Ricky Warner - Oct 8, 2003 4:24 am (#210 of 2916)

Aunt Petunia or Susan Bones's Aunty. THEORY

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Denise P. - Oct 8, 2003 6:35 am (#211 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Ricky, what are you referring to? Please include enough with your post so that your meaning is clear. Aunt Petunia or Susan Bone's Aunty....what?

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Oct 8, 2003 1:30 pm (#212 of 2916)

I think he meant that they would have been in the same year (or around it) as Sirius, and could have had possible relationships with him, or peter pettigrew, or Lupin for that matter. Although there isn't mention of alot of HRH's peers parents, they were probably all about the same age as MWPP, but since we don't know anything/much about them, it would be close to immpossible to theorize and back up w/ info any ships taking place with them. This much thinking while I'm in science class too!

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Mrs. Sirius - Oct 19, 2003 10:44 pm (#213 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Hey you 'shippers, you just have to check out the essay on Harry and Hermione on What's New". Although I still am a big proponent for Harry-Ginny, the essay is excellent. Many of her points just stare out at you from OoP. I was trying to ignore them because I prefer Ginny for Harry, it's that whole family thing. The essay doesn't miss a single clue.

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Susanne - Oct 20, 2003 1:48 am (#214 of 2916)

Totally agree Mrs Sirus - the essay is fantastic! It highlights areas of Harry and Hermione's relationship that, on their own don't mean much, but put together I wonder how on earth I missed them. TGF should definitely read it!

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Ladybug220 - Oct 20, 2003 10:58 am (#215 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Here's the direct link to the essay:

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I have to say there is a convincing argument there and I am a H/G shipper....

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S.E. Jones - Oct 20, 2003 4:11 pm (#216 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't know about how convincing her evidence is, I mentally came up with multiple explanations for most all of her citations that don't point to a Harry-Hermy relationship....

Has anyone read these two articles? Who's Bewitching Who? Romance in the Harry Potter Books and Dating in the Dark They are a must read, in my opinion, for any Harry/Ginny, Ron/Hermione 'shippers....

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Sly Girl - Oct 20, 2003 7:08 pm (#217 of 2916)

I don't find the essay convincing at all, actually- I too found myself coming up with explanations for most of all of her citations. I also don't agree with her on her assertion that Hermione didn't seem keen for Harry to date Cho. I didn't get that impression at all from the book. *shrug*

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Weeny Owl - Oct 20, 2003 8:48 pm (#218 of 2916)

Sly Girl:

I agree with you on this. I sort of got the impression that Hermione was exasperated with Harry because he couldn't understand how Cho was feeling about quite a few things. She had to carefully walk him through Cho being upset on Valentine's Day, and it seemed to take him a while to get it.

She seemed to me to be mothering him more than anything. I also think she felt quite a bit of sympathy for what Cho was feeling.

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Maollelujah - Oct 21, 2003 12:31 am (#219 of 2916)

I agree it, it wasn't convincing. Now on the other hand, Dating in the Dark, really seemed to make sense to me. (But maybe because I am a H/G R/H man, and the rest can eat cake.)

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Donna Bright - Oct 21, 2003 2:05 am (#220 of 2916)

There are many ways to interpret the relationship between Harry and Hermione. One can argue for a ship or against. I argue against for these reasons.

1. I do not think Hermione would encourage or give advice to Harry in his relationship with Cho if she liked him. When Hermione wants something, she goes after it. She rushes in, like a bull in a china shop, to heck with the consequences. She is persistent if she feels she is right. Her pestering of Harry when he wants to use Umbridge's fire to contact Sirius is a perfect example of her determination.

2. Even if she doesn't realize it, she has feelings for Ron. Her reaction to Luna when she thinks Luna is exhibiting feelings for Ron is a bit of a giveaway. Also, her reaction when Ron insults her in SS is not like her at all. All through the books, when the Slytherins insult her, she deftly turns the tables on them or ignores them completely, encouraging Harry to do the same. Had Seamus or Dean said those things about her, I don't think she would have run to the girls room and cried her eyes out. She would have turned on them and given them what they tried to give her.

3. JKR has some input as to what goes into the films. The scene where she is unpetrified, and does not hug Ron as she does Harry, is a clue. If Hermione and Ron were not going to get together, why would JKR allow the film maker to include that little item, when she worked with Steve Kloves to make sure things were right in line with the overall story.

Harry and Hermione have, from the very first, seemed more like a brother-sister relationship than romantic. Harry has longed for a real familial relationship, and with both Hermione and Ron he has a brother and sister. I am convinced that Harry will find love, if he finds love, outside of his relationship with Hermione.

Of course, I could be wrong...

D

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Fawkesy Lady - Oct 21, 2003 9:06 am (#221 of 2916)

S.E. Jones, those essays were great! Thanks for posting the links. The one about Ron and Hermione already being an item is very interesting. Reading OoP, I sensed the tension, but never thought that they could secretly be dating. Great essay!

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::StinkerBell:: - Oct 21, 2003 10:31 am (#222 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
I always believed there would be tension between Harry and Ron in one of the last two books. Ron thinks Harry likes Hermione and Harry thinks Ron is mad about something else, massive confusion. At the end Ron blurts out saying something in front of Hermione to Harry like "I'm the one who liked Hermione first" something like that. I dunno......

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Madame Librarian - Oct 21, 2003 10:43 am (#223 of 2916)

I am not predicting much at all for any long term 'ships (these are after all still very young people, even in book 7), but when I read the first essay proposing a Harry/Hermione 'ship, I couldn't get it out of my head that if (big IF, I think) that turned out to be valid...well, it doesn't look too good for ol' Ron to last out the whole 7 books.

So, I sincerely hope both of us are wrong--the author in her logical view (which, as some pointed out shows, a close relationship but not necessarily a romantic one), and in my emotional reaction which is based on authors who have used that sort of character development device in the past to foreshadow the death of another character.

Garbled post, this, no? It's soon after lunch and I'm feeling drowsy.

Ciao. Barb

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Hermione Joy - Oct 21, 2003 11:05 pm (#224 of 2916)

I just have to add my comments on Penny L's essay-what a nice essay! I'm so impressed! Personally, I feel that she right on about most everything, especially Hermione's "businesslike" reaction to the Harry/Cho kiss and to the Harry/Cho relationship as a whole. After I read OotP, this was exactly the impression I got about Hermione's attitude toward the relationship, and it was nice to have everything all summed up in such a well written essay.

Of course, I will always be a H/R shipper at heart (Barb, I hope you're wrong about Ron possibly dying!), even in the face of the evidence Penny presents, which I see as pretty compelling. I guess at this point all I feel like I can do is hold out hope for a H/R 'ship!

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S.E. Jones - Oct 22, 2003 10:10 am (#225 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Hermione Joy, have you read either of the short essays I posted (post #216)? If you're hoping for a Hermione/Ron 'ship, you might be very interested in the "Dating in the Dark" article.

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Jenny M. - Oct 22, 2003 7:17 pm (#226 of 2916)

I thought Dating in the Dark and the Harry/Hermione article were both very intriguing. I still think we'll end up seeing Hermione/Ron, with Harry as a brotherly-close friend to both of them, whether or not he marries.

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Oct 23, 2003 3:07 pm (#227 of 2916)

I htought those last two essays very interesting as well. I'm pretty far conviinced that the R/H relationship is alrady going on, especailyl since I could see the R/H ship happening sometime in the future. It would make sense that they'd hide it from Harry, and it's not clearly stated in the books because Harry doesn't knnow about it. Although there's some intriguing evidence for Harry/Hermy ship, I really think Ron and Hermy will end up together. Oh I also can see HArry and Luna ending up together.

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Joanna S Lupin - Oct 26, 2003 12:17 pm (#228 of 2916)

Little Bobik
hi!

yes, here is plenty of choices in the matter of love but I can't help thanking that Harry and Hermione will be very serious couple in the seventh book, they are getting more and more confident with each other lately, actually, it started in prisoner of Azkaban, and Ron is being leaved beside main action more often, I also am afraid that Hermione'll die because of Voldie in the last battle (and afterwards Avada Kadavra from Harry of course:-)

well, I find it very probable that Ron will end up with Luna And Ginni, hm, neither Neville nor Dean, but what about Draco?

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Carina - Oct 26, 2003 1:17 pm (#229 of 2916)

and her killer bunny rabbit
I can't see any Gryffindor ending up with Draco (I actually read a fairly decent Hermy+Draco argument and even then, didn't buy it). He becomes a bigger creep with every book that I see the chance of his redemption diminishing faster and faster. Also, his pure-blood feelings seem to run very deep and I can't imagine him with a more open-minded girl. They would drive each other crazy.

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timrew - Oct 26, 2003 3:20 pm (#230 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
You're right, Carina. Draco is an unredeemable lowlife of the first quarter. He will never become involved with Hermione.

He'll probably meet up with a nice female ferret and settle down in his earth burrow to raise a family of Death Eating Ferrets.

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Catherine - Oct 26, 2003 4:41 pm (#231 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Timrew, I have only one thing to add in your happily ever after. Pretty pretty please, say that Buckbeak finds that particular ferret burrow...

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Michelle K. - Oct 26, 2003 11:56 pm (#232 of 2916)

I do think the H/R ship is already in progress it started while Harry was still on Privet Drive and they were at Grimauld Place, together. Yes, while they weren't alone Ginny, Fred and George were there. Ron DID have the room all to himself for a few weeks. What's to say there weren't long talks and stolen kisses (nothing further) during that time? They are both teenagers with hormones. Look how Harry's flared up.

Also, Hermione and Ron DO spend a lot of time alone together during the year at school, after all Harry spends more time alone then the other books (with everything going on). I realize thet H/R are prefects, but they are found alone together even when not doing prefect stuff.

I have always liked the H/R ship theory because it is the least obvious. H/H makes the most sense at first.

I always thought the Ginny/Harry ship was to easy at first too and liked him better with Cho or even Luna, but after reading and re-reading OOP I rather like Ginny and think that IF Harry must have a girl in the end (I still think he won't) Ginny is the best choice.

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Oct 28, 2003 5:52 pm (#233 of 2916)

I agree with you on the H/H ship being sort of obvious at first.. that's what I thought was going to happen when i first read SS/PS. I have since changed my mind to the underground H/R ship, though.

I think Draco living in a ferret hole is quite fitting for him, actually... although i hope all the other little ferrets in ferret society will reject him or soemthing Wink

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 29, 2003 8:17 am (#234 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I mentioned this in the 'Is Rowling comparing Ron and Hermione to Harry's Parents?' thread, but didn't divulge any further seeing as it wasn't a 'ship thread.

I'm not sure if anyone else will see it the same as me, but in the spirit of the forum I'll post anyways!

Is it possible that Malfoy (despite himself) has a little 'thing' for Hermione....? Being the twisted little so & so that he is, he wouldn't want to admit to liking a 'mudblood' (even to himself), & thus compensates by being extra nasty to her.

We have seen that he is extremely vindictive towards her, even more so than other muggle borns in their year - although that could be put down to the fact that she's a mate of Harrys'! However, it might just be a case of 'pulling the pigtails of the girl you fancy'!

However, before you all get worried, I'm going to add that there's no way Hermione would ever go near the little ferret!

It's possible that he's just a nasty little git.... but this could add a bit of (much needed) depth to his character!

Anyone care to add to my mad ideas, feel free to disagree.. just don't launch any projectiles please

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Ladybug220 - Oct 29, 2003 8:39 am (#235 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Fawkes it certainly is a possibility but I see it more as he is jealous of how smart she is - especially since she is the best in the year and is muggle born. Then his father makes remarks to him in Knockturn alley about how he should be ashamed that a muggle born is doing better than him and he is a pureblood (my paraphrasing and interpretation of the conversation). So he is mean and nasty to her not just because she is friends with Harry but also because she is so smart and does much better than him.

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fidelio - Oct 29, 2003 8:53 am (#236 of 2916)

Well, first of all, what would Draco's loving parents do if he came home with a picture of a lovely little Muggle-born witch and said "This is Hermione. We're gettng married as soon as she finishes her curse-breaker training at Gringott's. Her parents are Muggles; can you believe it, they're dentists?"?

Narcissa's aunt blasted the name of Narcissa's sister Andromeda off the family tree tapestry for marrying a muggle-born; from what little we've heard from Tonks and Sirius, Andromeda and Narcissa have NOT kept in touch. Lucius was quick to use the issue of a Muggle-born student getting better grades than Draco to needle him. In addition, Lucius is a DE, and enjoys torturing Muggles, as we saw at the WQC in GoF. It's probably safe to say that the Malfoys would be besides themselves, possibly even tearing their hair and crying "Where did we go wrong? What did we do to deserve this?" So there's the whole possibility of adolescent rebellion against parental standards.

Next, Hermione is pretty powerful--not only is she good at studying magic and remembering what she's learned, but she's pretty skillful at using it. Power is attractive--especially for a greedy little git like young Malfoy. The Malfoys have not maintained [and possibly even increased] their wealth, status and powers over the years by marrying weaklings. Lucius would agree that there is no good or bad, only power, and those willing to seek it out and use it. He's taught his son the same, or tried to. She is also physically attractive, at least by mid-GoF, when she dolls up for the Yule Ball. Lavender Brown, the Patel sisters, and other girls at Hogwarts make major efforts to look good all the time, but Hermione is more interested in studying than in impressing the boys with her looks--and there's sometimes something intriguing about this; it's as if she's telling the young men "I have more important things to think about than you", which is a sort of challenge to their pride.

Hermione also has the nerve to confront and attack Malfoy, both verbally and physically. "Twitchy little ferret, aren't you, Malfoy?" She's even gone past the usual bounds of WW fighting and actually slapped him in the face--something that's probably never, ever happened to Narcissa's little fair-haired boy. Again, this is sort of challenge can be intriguing.

Finally, Draco truly believes that Mudbloods are inferior and untrustworthy. Until he got to Hogwarts, he probably never encountered any Muggles for long enough to become acquainted with one. He has had at least two different classes with Hermione just about every year he's been at Hogwarts so far, and she is a walking, talking challenge to any preconceived notions he has about Muggles. He can't stand her--and yet he almost as preoccupied by her as he is by Harry.

Draco yearns to be important and respected--at Hogwarts, his only real clout is in Slytherin. Hermione is important and respected. Snape seems to be the only teacher who's really nice to Draco--most of them seem to like Hermione; even though Snape isn't pleasant to her, she gets good grades in his classes. The students in other houses are willing to cheer against Draco and the Slytherin Quidditch team; no one but Crabbe and Goyle seem too upset when Draco's turned into a ferret. Hermione can organize a secret study group from the other three houses with just a little bit of talking. The Slytherins had from Halloween to Christmas to make up to Krum and the other Durmstrang students; Krum asks Hermione to the Yule Ball instead of a Slytherin girl. Draco gets not just Harry Potter but also Hermione Granger rubbed in his face every day. However, Hermione has plenty of other things to think about--and does.

What does this add up to, in my opinion? Draco's fascinated by Hermione, and if you were to tell him this, and suggest he was attracted to her, he'd probably try to hex your ears off. However, all the elements are there. Of course, the fascination is not reciprocated, which is just fuel to the flame. This set-up also could serve to demonstrate the old saying about there being a thin line between love and hate. Draco could probably never manage to acknowledge love for Hermione, so he'll have to settle for hating her--doing anything else would unsettle his worldview way too much!

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 29, 2003 9:53 am (#237 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Wow, thats some post Fidelio.... & exactly along the lines of what I was thinking..... Draco is fasinated by Hermione, whether or not it's a crush, I don't think even he knows! But he's such a twisted little ferret that he will still take this out on her.... as if it's her fault

I like your idea about the slap, I guess no girl has ever stood up to him before.... (think simpering Pansy P), thus adding to his fasination. The fact she doesn't like him (dare I say hates him) only adds to this.... He can't have her, & this could increase the fasination/attraction for him... Plus she's a muggle born, so shes definately forbidden fruit in the eyes of the Malfoys!

Hermione is popular, she seems to know most people in the year by name (much more so than Harry or Ron), is the smartest in their year & seemingly is a very powerful witch, both in her magical powers & indeed her powers of persusasion. Like you said Fidelio, power is a very attractive quality However I also agree that he'll just settle for 'Loves to Hate her' Oh if Hermy only knew..... I wonder what she'd do.... probably hex him

Gosh I love the forum....

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Weeny Owl - Oct 29, 2003 11:05 am (#238 of 2916)

fidelio and Fawkes:

I am astounded and incredibly impressed by your posts. I've been thinking along those very same lines but never quite put the thoughts into words. Thank you for expressing such illuminating ideas. I can see Draco's fascination being a "scene of a traffic accident" thing... he's horrified but can't quite look away.

Draco blames Harry for Lucius being in Azkaban, but does he know about the other five who were in the Department of Mysteries battle? How will that affect his behavior toward Hermione?

I'm sure Hermione's a constant thorn in his side since she isn't the least bit impressed with him, his family's money, or his status in the Wizarding World. That would drive Ferret Boy bonkers.

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fidelio - Oct 29, 2003 12:56 pm (#239 of 2916)

Thanks, Weeny Owl, but really, what do we have to do until JKR finishes her first draft of Book 6, then re-writes it, and rewrites it, and possibly even [O! I hope not!] rewrites it yet again?

Having known a couple of cute and appealing ferrets, I'd like to remind everyone that these little weasels are useful in killing vermin, and are generally more agreeable and affectionate than most members of the Malfoy clan. Incidentally, since ferrets are really a member of the weasel family, isn't the little song from OotP labeling Ron the Weasel King interesting? If Malfoy is a ferret [a type of weasel] and Ron is the Weasel King, does this make Malfoy subordinate to Ron? Maybe this should be considered evidence that Ron will be Head Boy?

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Oct 29, 2003 3:55 pm (#240 of 2916)

Wow, I am also very impressed by all the tid bits of evidence for the whle Darco "loving/hating" Hermione idea. It's something that I could almost see having a huge role in one of the next books, maybe influencing one of Draco's actions or something. Or maybe that's just what I hope happens... I can't see him doing a total turn around, but I do wonder if Draco will ever change, and if it's a result of the way he might feel about Hermy.

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Weeny Owl - Oct 29, 2003 4:42 pm (#241 of 2916)

fidelio:

I have known a few ferrets in my time as well, and I've found them to be inquisitive and really rather cuddly. One friend of mine had a female named Ferret Fawcett-Majors.

I like the idea of Draco being subordinate to Ron. I can see Hermione getting annoyed with Draco after one too many snotty comments to Ron and turning him into a ferret, and then maybe Ron and Hermione will get married and keep him as a pet. Wouldn't that just totally irk Ferret Boy?

Jazhara: Unfortunately, I think it's way too late for Draco. I can't imagine him developing truly fond feelings for Hermione due to her friendship with Harry for one thing.

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timrew - Oct 29, 2003 4:48 pm (#242 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Ferret Fawcett-Majors, Weeny?

Draco: "Will you go to the ball with me, Hermione?"

Hermione: (drawing her wand) "Ferretus totalus!"

(Draco is turned into a ferret)

Draco: (in fluent Ferret) "Then I suppose a snog is out of the question?"

Hermione: "Ah, Hagrid! If you want a ferret sandwich, I have half the ingredients."

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Weeny Owl - Oct 29, 2003 4:52 pm (#243 of 2916)

tim?

You have made me chuckle, you have made me giggle, you have made me laugh out loud, but dang it, warn a little owl next time before she spews (yes, "spews" and NOT S.P.E.W.s) coffee all over her monitor.

Ferretus totalus? Oh, I love that!

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Ladybug220 - Oct 29, 2003 6:01 pm (#244 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Tim, I have to agree with Weeny Owl only in my case it was Coke not coffee. Now my stomach hurts from laughing....

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 30, 2003 4:08 am (#245 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Weeny Owl.... when I first read your post I thought it said that you a friend called Ferret Fawcett-Majors.... oh how I laughed when I realised my mistake.... hee hee! Oh & thanks for the complement (Fawkes glows with pride in a Hermioneske way )

Tim.... ditto for the coffee thing.. I really shouldn't drink & read posts at the same time... hee hee! You should put a disclaimer at the top of your post...
Warning: The following post may contain information that could potentially lead to a projectile beverage incident... you have been warned

I'm delighted that others have the same thoughts as I have regarding the blonde Ferret... but as you all said, he'll never actually develop this any further..... we hope!

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Carina - Oct 30, 2003 12:23 pm (#246 of 2916)

and her killer bunny rabbit
I quote Star Wars: "Stay on target... Stay on target..."

I know when I first started here, the Harry+Ginny shippers seemed to outnumber the Harry+Hermione shippers by a large amount. Now I'm not so sure. With Liz's blessing, I'd like to take a quick poll:

Who will Harry end up with?

A. Hermione
B. Ginny
C. Luna
D. Cho
E. Someone else (If you have someone specific in mind, name them)
F. No one

Who will Hermione end up with?

G. Harry
H. Ron
I. Viktor
J. Draco
K. Someone else (If you have someone specific in mind, name them)
L. No one

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Susurro Notities - Oct 30, 2003 12:48 pm (#247 of 2916)

HARRY = F
HERMIONE = H

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schoff - Oct 30, 2003 1:28 pm (#248 of 2916)

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Harry=F (but I really like C) Hermione=H

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S.E. Jones - Oct 30, 2003 1:46 pm (#249 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Harry=E
Hermione=H

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Third guy from the left - Oct 30, 2003 2:54 pm (#250 of 2916)

I don't know about Harry. Hermione = H

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'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) Empty Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 251 to 300)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:46 am

Stncold - Oct 30, 2003 3:26 pm (#251 of 2916)
Hail, I haven't posted here in a good while as I'm more of a debate person when it comes to shipping and the shipping profile is pretty low on these forums, while there are other forums devoted entirely to shipping debates.

However I feel the need to voice my opinion on this poll.

Harry=A

Hermione=G

Figured I Would help the numbers of my fellow H/Hr shipmates around here, as there are so few of us on this forum.

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Neville Longbottom - Oct 30, 2003 3:29 pm (#252 of 2916)

Harry = B (but then Ginny will die, so in the end it will be F)

Hermione = H

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Gabrielle D - Oct 30, 2003 4:06 pm (#253 of 2916)

meep
Harry = F (in the long run... but I really feel it will be C for a while though)

Hermione = H

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Oct 30, 2003 9:07 pm (#254 of 2916)

Harry - F and Hermy - H

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Weeny Owl - Oct 30, 2003 9:29 pm (#255 of 2916)

Harry = F Hermione = H

I'd like to see Neville with Luna, actually. I think he could appreciate her quirkiness and vice versa.

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Ugga Bugga - Oct 30, 2003 9:44 pm (#256 of 2916)

Has anyone checked the passage on American page 655 -- Harry is already beginning to realize that he has feelings for Ginny: "Harry looked at her (Ginny). Perhaps it was the effect of the chocolate -- Lupin had always advised eating some after encounters with dementors -- or simply becasuse he had finally spoken aloud the wish that had been burning inside of him for a week, but he felt a bit more hopeful . . ." This is a classic JKR red herring. Not only is Harry's thought interrupted, this is a prototypical description of the feeling someone gets when falling in love.

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Ovate - Oct 30, 2003 11:03 pm (#257 of 2916)

Harry = B, Ginny has become a much more interesting character in the last two books and on numerous occasions when something odd or funny happens, Ginny and Harry catch each others eye and suppress grins. I think that may indicate a potential for some chemistry in the future. Hermione seems more like a sister to Harry than a potential match.

Hermione = I or L. JKR has indicated that bits of her personality reside in both Harry and Hermione and that Ron resembles her oldest friend to a degree. I think that may make relationships between either of these pairs somewhat awkward for JKR to imagine.

I think Ron may end up with Luna although that seems like a strange match to me at the moment.

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S.E. Jones - Oct 30, 2003 11:32 pm (#258 of 2916)

Let it snow!
JKR has indicated that bits of her personality reside in both Harry and Hermione and that Ron resembles her oldest friend to a degree. I think that may make relationships between either of these pairs somewhat awkward for JKR to imagine.

I don't know about that, it could be that there was some part of her younger self that had a bit of a crush on her best friend. Even if those feelings have faded with time, she may have used them to base Hermione and Ron's attraction.... Or, though she loosely, unintentionally, based some of Ron on her friend, maybe she's mainly going with a typical Jane Austen romance (which seems to be working quite well)....

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Ovate - Oct 30, 2003 11:43 pm (#259 of 2916)

You may be right. The relationships seem very difficult to sort out at this point. I haven't read any Jane Austen but I do know that JKR was particularly impressed by a relationship that emerged at the end of the novel "Emma". Apparently it was a complete surprise to her even though subtle clues had been laid out in the book.

I don't sense an attraction between Hermione and Harry right now, but of course I could be missing something or perhaps they are. I agree that she may have had a crush on her friend but ultimately she chose to be just friends. And the long letters to Victor suggest a fairly strong interest in him to me.

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Hem Hem - Oct 30, 2003 11:51 pm (#260 of 2916)

Harry:B

Hermione:H, but will then break up.

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 31, 2003 5:36 am (#261 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
The romance in Emma, comes near the end of the novel, where she realises that she has been in love with her best friend (Mr Knightley) all along, which surprises even herself! She discovers these feelings when she believes him to be in love with someone else, & that she has lost him forever!

Of course he has been in love with her all along as well, so its happy ever after at the end.... everyone has someone and all that! (please let Harry end up happy)

Interestingly Emma & Mr Knightley are the only two that really argue in the novel, & he appears on more than one occasion to be Emmas' conscience, & repremands her for any bad behaviour! He is also one of the only people whos' opinion really matters to Emma!

I don't know if JK will employ the same tactics in the books, would be interesting to see how she could develop this, but for now I'm thinking: Harry = B (Ginny) (or noone) Hermione = H (Ron)

Sometimes I hope for a Harry/Hermione ship, but whilst actually reading the books... I find myself routing for Hermione and Ron

For those unfamiliar with the novel Emma, it was made into a film... with Gwyneth Paltrow and the film 'Clueless' was an 'updated' version of Emma!

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Ladybug220 - Oct 31, 2003 7:42 am (#262 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Harry - B

Hermione - H

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Ovate - Oct 31, 2003 8:40 am (#263 of 2916)

Thanks Fawkes Forever. That does sound like Ron and Hermione.

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 31, 2003 8:50 am (#264 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I re-read Emma whilst on holidays a few weeks back... & the thought struck me then as well!

Glad to be of assistance

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Susurro Notities - Oct 31, 2003 8:57 am (#265 of 2916)

Edited by Oct 31, 2003 7:57 am
Ovate,
Ron and Luna! Really?

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Fawkes Forever - Oct 31, 2003 9:00 am (#266 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Aha, it's the Pumpkin King

Actually, I think Ron & Luna will 'date' briefly.... or else she will make it well known that she likes him. This could be the catalyst that makes Hermione realise how she really feels......

Well you never know

EDIT: In reply to Ovates post... nice to see we are thinking along the same lines.... & I think Luna is pretty resilient.... besides... Mr Longbottom might be there to offer a sympathetic shoulder

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Ovate - Oct 31, 2003 9:03 am (#267 of 2916)

Well Luna obviously has a very strong crush on Ron, but now I'm thinking that it will be Ron and Hermione in the end based on the parallels with "Emma". I do think that Ron may date Luna for awhile if Hermione continues with her interest in Krum...I really like Luna and I hope that she doesn't get hurt.

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Stncold - Oct 31, 2003 11:18 am (#268 of 2916)

Well Fawkes the thing is, I think every ship out there has tried to bend Emma/Mr. Knightley to their will ever since JKR said she was a fan of the series.

I know almost every ship has tried to bend Lily/James to their will so much its not funny anymore.

However, in my opinion, if JKR is going the Emma route with the subtle clues and context, then it will wind up either H/Hr or H/G as both ships are supported by symbolism and clues that only a die hard shipper would catch whilst R/Hr is just out there so anybody could notice it.

I will admit, GoF was the first book I read, when I read it I liked R/Hr and I really saw it as happening. Then I read it again more closely, and the entire Yule Brawl scene turned me off to the idea of it. After that I became pretty impartial towards all ships, then in order I read SS/PS, CoS and then PoA.

PoA jump started me onto the path towards the die hard H/Hr I am today. The symmetry with which they had throughout the book, especially with saving Sirius and Buckbeak, really got me into it.

The Firebolt incident is one of the premiere H/Hr moments to me though, Hermione takes the Firebolt first thing to check it for jinxes, this aggravates Harry and he has every right to be, He didn't know what her intentions where, and he stops talking to her for a month, the worst period ever in their friendship.

Once Harry gets it back, Ron's first thought is to fly on it, not make up with Hermione. Harry, who owns the broom and has yet to fly on it, realizes that her heart was in the right place and he goes straight to making up with her.

This single incident strenghtened their friendship tenfold, now their friendship is at the stage where it cannot break no matter what attacks at it, they finish each other's sentences, they are there for each other, they are only fifteen yet they have a symmetry which shows maturity beyond years. As Penny so eloquently stated in her essay, their relationship is already at the level where it has the potentional to evolve into something even greater and more beautiful.

That is not the only reason I ship H/Hr though, H/Hr has many symbolisms surronding it, and JKR has outright said that she is a fan of symbolism and using it.

Buckbeak for instance is a great symbolism for H/Hr, though that is something for another time.

As for R/Hr, aside from being based on Unresolved Sexual Tension for the most part, one of the reasons I do not support it is because of the way Ron was in GoF, he said and did things that were just not right, even for a jealous 14 almost 15 year old with a crush on his best friend.

As for the whole dating in the dark thing, its possible, though I'm inclined to believe Hermione has feelings for Harry. As for dating while at Grimmauld Place during the summer, no, I can't see it.

I really don't see how it could happen with nobody knowing with Fred and George running around the house with extendable ears and apparating randomly into rooms. They would have seen or heard something during a month's time.

While at Hogwart's, yes its possible, though I don't see Hermione as the type of girl to abandon prefect duties/meetings for a snog session.

Though it is possible, I have only met several die-hard R/Hr's who actually believe they were secretly dating during OotP, so if the majority of die-hard R/Hr's do not believe so, then I certainly don't, I'm not ruling it out though.

Whew, long post, as for any other ships I support, I have a thing for Draco/Ginny, mostly because of the whole Romeo/Juliet thing, though I'm pretty resigned to the fact it wont happen in canon and Draco will spend the rest of his life with a nice ferret as somebody mentioned above. I still read Draco/Ginny fanfiction though.

I also like the idea of Remus/Tonks, Remus needs somebody who is fun loving and energetic like Sirius to help him get past everything he has been through in his life.

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Ovate - Oct 31, 2003 11:42 am (#269 of 2916)

What about Krum as DADA teacher in the 6th year? That would certainly add a bit of drama to the various potential relationships. Considering Snape's age when he began teaching Potions, Krum would certainly be old enough and given that he came from a school that specialized in the Dark Arts he must be well versed in them. The Goblet of Fire chose him to represent his school so he must be a decent wizard.

I really think that it would really make a potential Krum-Hermione-Ron triangle (?) much more interesting if Krum were actually at Hogwarts. And who knows maybe we'll get an exhibition quidditch match where Harry gets a chance to face off against Krum to boot.

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Ovate - Oct 31, 2003 11:47 am (#270 of 2916)

P.S. I still think Snape will be DADA teacher in the 6th year with a new female Potions teacher, balancing out the number of male and female teachers at the school, but Krum would be a very interesting addition to the staff.

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S.E. Jones - Oct 31, 2003 2:15 pm (#271 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I think every ship out there has tried to bend Emma/Mr. Knightley to their will ever since JKR said she was a fan of the series.....However, in my opinion, if JKR is going the Emma route with the subtle clues and context, then it will wind up either H/Hr or H/G as both ships are supported by symbolism and clues that only a die hard shipper would catch whilst R/Hr is just out there so anybody could notice it.

The thing is, the Ron and Hermione 'ship can fit more Austen stories than the others. Yes, you could read some of Emma into Harry and Hermione, but R/H also fit well with Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility, and others. It's like a nice little mixture of every Austen romance ever written. I just can't see those other elements in H/H.....

one of the reasons I do not support it is because of the way Ron was in GoF, he said and did things that were just not right, even for a jealous 14 almost 15 year old with a crush on his best friend.

As far as how Ron was acting in GoF, I saw it as more than just a jealous 14 year old with a crush on his best friend. I think some of his apparent anger and resentment towards Hermy came from his confusion over just how he felt about her. It's an odd thing to discover you have romantic feelings for someone you thought of as a best bud or sibling only a few years ago. And, unfortunately, these things often come about before you're really ready for them because the object of your affection starts to date and you don't initially know why it bothers you. It's hard to really discover that these feelings are romantic, and when you do, it can be bothersome because you keep telling yourself, "but so-and-so is my best friend, I can't like them". Often these feelings slowly (note the slowly) disappear as you move into the dating world yourself; sometimes they don't and they turn into happy couples who have been married for fifty years. Anyhoo, I just saw more to the stuff Ron was doing than simply jealousy, though that was definately a factor....

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Stncold - Oct 31, 2003 2:56 pm (#272 of 2916)

Yes, Well I see where you are coming from and I understand. However to me the snide comments behind her back and everything else was uncalled for, though i did get a chuckle out of Ron breaking the arm off the Krum toy.

It's all about personal opinion really, neither of us is right and neither of us is wrong, despite what the final ship is. Even if H/Hr does not happen in canon, though im convinced it will but I could be wrong, I'll still read and write H/Hr fanfiction and other things.

It depends on your preference really about the whole thing, It's what makes the shipping world go 'round, although some people go bash crazy and it goes too far. However it is nice to find a mature debate centered around opinions, facts and theories that is bash free, quite rare to find a good one if you ask me.

The CoSForums over at Mugglenet.com is an excellent place for a mature debate in my opinion, although the H/Hr people slightly outnumber the R/Hr and H/G people.

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Donna Bright - Nov 1, 2003 8:17 am (#273 of 2916)

First, let me say emphatically Harry - B, Hermione - H!

As to Draco's fascination with Hermione, not a chance. He HATES her. His father, whom Draco worships, points out to him that Hermione, who is a muggle, has done much better than him. Not only that, but she is Harry's friend. He has baited her at every opportunity and she has invariably put him in his place. There is no love loss there, if it were possible, Draco would do the same to Hermione as he has done with Ron.

Draco and Pansy will be a couple. Pansy is never very far from Draco. Seems to me she worships the ground he walks on. He did take her to the Yule Ball. Draco, whose love of self is paramount, would certainly take advantage of the hero worship Pansy bestows upon him. His ego wants to be stroked, and Pansy is there with bells on to give him all the adulation he thinks he deserves.

While I do think we will see Viktor again, I do not think he will be the DADA teacher. He is too young. He will show up, perhaps as a Quidditch player for Ron's favorite team, the Chudley Cannons. Now wouldn't that be interesting. Imagine Ron, who is obviously jealous of what he sees as Hermione's affection for Viktor, having to struggle with the fact that Viktor has helped his team win the league championship. Do you think that Harry, when he finally makes it to the Burrow after this summer, will find Ron in his room pulling down all his posters and discarding his violently orange bedspread?

I can just see Ron and Hermione having a huge row over her attention to Viktor and Ron in his frustration, grabbing Hermione and giving her a kiss that will finally stop their constant bickering! And there will be Harry with an "I told you so" look on his face.

And finally, I do believe we will see Ron, in his best "I'm the older brother, and I do know what's best for you" mode, trying to get Harry and Ginny together. He wasn't that concerned with Ginny's interest in other boys, before OotP, because he knew, with certainty that Ginny loved Harry. I think that he assumes Harry has feelings for Ginny also, despite how Harry felt for Cho. After all, Harry was the one who saved Ginny from the chamber. He really wasn't aware of how Harry felt about Cho until OotP. To me, it seemed that his attitude was "it's alright that you kissed Cho, after all you must gain experience with women somehow before you get together with my sister".

Ron doesn't care much for Ginny's choices. When she announced that she was no longer seeing Michael Conner, he looks at Harry with what I can only assume is an "okay, that boy is out of the way now, Harry. The field is clear for you" look. I also think Ginny is well aware of Ron's feelings. Her remark about Dean Thomas was her way of saying "stay out of it, Ron".

Ginny impresses me as being quite a smart cookie, when it comes to Harry. She knows, at the end of OotP, that Cho and Harry are no longer a couple. She has matured and I think she is biding her time. I also think that she realizes that there is danger all around Harry. Being used once by LV, she is conflicted as to whether she should pursue Harry. She was used once as a weapon, and LV has ways of knowing what is going on with Harry (perhaps Draco tells his father and mother all about what's going on at school, including all of Harry's activities. And Lucius passes that info on to LV). Why give LV the chance to use something else against Harry, and why place herself in that kind of danger again. I do believe that is why she has tried to distance her own feelings about Harry.

I cannot see Harry ending up alone or dying at the end of the saga. There is so much evidence that Harry has a lot of love to give. His "saving people thing" is ample evidence that he is capable of so much love. Not just romantic love, but love of family and humanity in general. Harry's deepest most despirate desire is to be surrounded by family. How better to achieve that then by marrying into the large and loving Weasly family.

Of course, I could be wrong...

D - whose intention is to always post a short response, but somehow always ends up in long winded explanations. I do have a tendency to get up on my soap box...

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Nov 1, 2003 1:23 pm (#274 of 2916)

I could completely understand Ron's behavior in GoF. Considering he idolized viktor krum, and wasn't quite sure how he felt about Hermione, it would seem that any relationship between the two of them would sort of be like taking his best friend and his hero away from him. The way Ron acted in GoF is a large part of why I think him and Hermy will end up together.

About Harry and Ginny, I agree that Ginny is getting a lot smarter on teh subject, nad I th ink that after a while Harry will go out with her. Of course, I don't think it will last long becuse of the whole danger from Voldilocks issue. I think that because he cares for Ginny so much, he will try to reject her just to save her, and will then end up alone in this sort of unhappy-but-knowing-what-he-has-to-do kind of way.

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kyle levinee - Nov 1, 2003 2:14 pm (#275 of 2916)

hagrid55
hey does anyone remember when HArry is testing and he looks at that girls back and her hair and totally zones out(I think it was one of the Patil sisters)i thought that was really weird.

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Denise P. - Nov 1, 2003 2:53 pm (#276 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Kyle, I am not sure how that relates to a relationship. Are you suggesting that Harry is hypnotized by hair and thus will date a girl with short hair? Or if you think it is Parvati or Padma, that Harry likes dark hair, we know Cho had dark hair too.

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freshwater - Nov 2, 2003 2:54 pm (#277 of 2916)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
I have to believe that Harry and Ginny will end up together: talented wizard/Quidditch player with dark, messy hair loves pretty, smart, assertive, redhead girl with a highly developed sense of right and wrong...it would be the ultimate fullfillment of the lives of James and Lily which were cut short by Voldemort's evil. A true victory over LV.

Also, I am sure that Ron and Hermione will end up together: JKR has made too many allusions to the similarity of the Ron/Hermionne relationship to the Molly/Arthur Weasley relationship for it to come out any other way. They have too many strong connections (positive and also dangerous) for them to stray too far away from each other for long. Their bickering is already depicted as a married-couples type of conflict...ongoing, sometimes vehement, but ultimately not negative enough to destroy the relationship.

Finally, these two couplings will bind these four characters together in intimate and complex ways, for what I hope will be books 8-87.

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sowmya aras - Nov 5, 2003 8:34 am (#278 of 2916)

I'm definitely sure that it will be harry+luna because towards the end in OotP harry feels strangely comfortable talking to luna about sirius and death where as he does'nt even feel comfy talking to ron and hermy about it. also he feels pity towards her and after talking to her about sirius and her theories on life after death he feel slightly better. its definitely gonna be them because its something we will never expect seeing as how harry is so annoyed by her now. i am so sure about it but i dont want it to happen. i really dont mind what happens to harry aslong as ron and hermy get together.

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timrew - Nov 5, 2003 5:56 pm (#279 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Let's face it. By the end of book 7, Harry will still be only 17 years old.

I can't see JKR "marrying him off" to anyone just yet.

She might hint at a relationship developing; but as for him walking down the aisle.....I don't think so.

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Neville Longbottom - Nov 5, 2003 10:00 pm (#280 of 2916)

But that can happen in the epilogue.

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Carina - Nov 7, 2003 5:41 pm (#281 of 2916)

and her killer bunny rabbit
Phew... In all honesty folks, I had forgoten I had posted this, so I'm just now tallying. Results stand as follows (but I do not consider the subject closed. We're getting a lot of good discussion here):

Who will Harry end up with?

A. Hermione 2
B. Ginny 7
C. Luna 2
D. Cho 0
E. Someone else 1
F. No one 4

Who will Hermione end up with?

G. Harry 2
H. Ron 12
I. Viktor 0
J. Draco 0
K. Someone else 0
L. No one 0

If you named more than one person (A or B), I'm sorry, but I didn't count it. If you gave a timeline (E then F), I took the first one.

I'm keeping track of who voted so don't even THINK about stacking the votes.

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MTW - Nov 10, 2003 5:17 am (#282 of 2916)

Harry ....... B Hermione .....H

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Fawkes Forever - Nov 10, 2003 6:31 am (#283 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
'Anti-Cheating Quills, hmph, it's as if they don't trust us....' Ron - PS/SS Movie

Carina.....
'I'm keeping track of who voted so don't even THINK about stacking the votes.'

Like we would ever do anything like that
*cough*the big read*cough*

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Mrs. Sirius - Nov 11, 2003 11:45 pm (#284 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I just discovered something really disturbing about Ron and predictions which I posted on the Ron thread. But it got me thinking, if it is true that our heroe's right hand man is doomed, that still plays into my theory for the 'ships.

I believe that Harry will end up with Ginny to solidify his brotherhood with Ron and family ties with the Weasley's. Even after that wonderful essay by Penny on Lexicon on the Harry Hermione 'ship, I am not convinced that the Harry/Hermione relationship is romantic. I think their relationship is familial. Hermione is a caregiver, mother-hen, and an equal partner in the HRH relationship. But her relationship with just Ron with be more than that. I can see that being romantic. Hermione, I think, has a soft spot for Ron and he for her. Her comments are all rather back handed but show that she accepts him as he is. It's the way Ron defers to her, doesn't take her directly on and even her comment, (paraphrasing here)-Harry you're worse than Ron, looking at Ron she then says no you're not-. I know it's strange but it show that she recognizes Ron as he is and she accepts it. Then there is the way Harry is reminded of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley listening to an exchange between Ron/Hermione.

Now, why do I see Ron's prediction of his doom as supporting H-G; R-H? Well, lets say Ron is correct in the joke prediction, if Harry is with Ginny and Ron is with Hermione, they are then all family. If Ron dies Harry still has Ginny and the Weasleys, and Hermione is part of the family too. If Harry dies Ron has Hermione. If both Ron and Harry die, Ginny and Hermione remain family.

Of course, I also believe that we won't see the closure of the romances as "part" of books 6 or seven, I don't think we'll see more of H-G; R-H than we saw of Harry-Cho, as they will all still be teenagers at the end of book 7. At best the romance will be suggested or shown in an epilogue.

By the way I haven't voted yet so here it is, H-b Hermione-h

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Susurro Notities - Nov 12, 2003 6:43 am (#285 of 2916)

Mrs. Sirius, Your post made me think of how thrilled Arthur would be if Ron hooked up with Hermione. Just imagine a muggle raised witch in the family! I bet the Grangers get invited to all the holiday celebrations.

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timrew - Nov 12, 2003 1:44 pm (#286 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Not to mention all that free dental care.....

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Mrs. Sirius - Nov 14, 2003 12:22 am (#287 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I hadn't even thought of that point Sussuro. The poor Grangers, every holiday stuck answering questions about electrical outlets and turnstiles.

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::StinkerBell:: - Nov 14, 2003 3:49 pm (#288 of 2916)

Use to be LongLiveSnuffles.....
And rubber ducks...

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Denice - Nov 19, 2003 6:59 am (#289 of 2916)

Yes, Arthur would be delighted with having Muggles in the family - and then, that would finally stop the Weasleys being a pure-blood family! That would fit only too well in JKRs message!

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coolbeans3131 - Nov 25, 2003 6:38 pm (#290 of 2916)

Hi! I'm pretty new here. I just thought I'd share how I stand on the Ship issue.

I read the first two books first, and didn't think anything about any romance between H/H or R/H. I read the third and fourth books about a year later(then was hooked). I didn't notice anything in POA, but after 4 figured we were going to get Ron/Hermione and maybe Harry/Ginny. I wasn't a huge fan of either of these, but figured it would happen.

After my husband, who hasn't read the books, saw the first movie, he said something about Harry and Hermione getting together, and I said, "No, Ron and Hermione are going to get together".

When I got done reading OotP for the first time, I had a vague Harry/Hermione feeling, but couldn't figure out why. I then re-read the whole series, and did notice some H/H things. I definitly noticed them in OotP. I am now a huge H/H shipper.

I don't know if H/H will happen. No one knows what JKR will do. There are two things I want to point out though. JKR has been very careful to not let us know how Hermione feels. She could like Harry, Ron, Krum, Dumbledore or nobody. Why is this such a secret? I also don't think she'll do any romance between the trio unless it serves the plot in some way. In other words, I don't think she'll do it just to do it.

I think there will be some kind of triangle between the trio. Jealousy and betrayal(even if only imagined) and misunderstandings that will play into the plot in a big way.

Hope this wasn't too long.

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Mrs. Sirius - Nov 25, 2003 11:56 pm (#291 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Coolbeans, welcome to the Forum. You may want to check out the essay on the forum written by Penney Linsenmayer. (don't do links but its under "What's New" Oct 19, 2003 ). Although it's a wonderful well thought out and reasearched essay, I don't agree with the interpretations, I am biased, I'm a H/G; R/H shipper.

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MissLuvaLuva98 - Nov 26, 2003 5:23 am (#292 of 2916)

Smile!!!!!!!!!!!
Penny's essay was very thought provoking and well written. I encourage everyone to read it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Even though I, like Mrs. Sirius, do not really agree with the Harry/Hermione 'ship, I think this essay has pulled a few strings and has balanced my thoughts about the topic.

I am more of a Ron/Hermione and Harry/Luna and Neville/Ginny sort of person, but hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I hope Hermione doesn't pursue a love relationship with Krum - I would like her to discover and develop the existing relationship she has with Ron. Their is so much love tension between these two characters.

As for Harry and Luna, I am unsure about their situation, since we have only just met Luna.

Neville and Ginny have already gone to the Yule Ball together, so they seem like pretty good friends. Then again, GInny is going out with Seamus now (isn't she!?) so I don't know how that will fare.

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Fawkes Forever - Nov 26, 2003 5:43 am (#293 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I think it was Dean Thomas, but I'm not sure if she's actually dating him or has just 'set her cap' at him (as so to speak)

I must say, I do enjoy the tension between Ron & Hermione.... but they might never get together, after all, JK likes to keep us on our toes.... The more I consider the shipping side of the series, the more I feel that none of the trio will have been paired off by the end of it, or have found their soulmate! Afterall, they will only be 17 / 18 at the end of it! (She may write an epilogue at some stage - pretty pretty please)

It's just one of those 'feelings' that I have.... but I have been wrong before

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Gabrielle D - Nov 29, 2003 4:56 pm (#294 of 2916)

meep
Hasn't JKR said that the last chapter will be telling us what's happened with all of the significant charecters?

...Or am I just off my rocker here?

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Hem Hem - Nov 29, 2003 8:54 pm (#295 of 2916)

December 28, 2001:"this really wraps everything, it's the epilogue and I basically say what happens to everyone after they leave school, those who survive - because there are deaths, more deaths coming...There's at least one death that's going to be horrible to write."

JKR has already written the last chapter....the question is, have we already seen this "significant" death...does that mean that no one else dear to us will die?

If anyone has any comments to this quesiton, we should go to the "Future Deaths" thread to discuss it.

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Donna Bright - Nov 30, 2003 4:13 pm (#296 of 2916)

Hem Hem, considering the date of the interview, it is safe to assume that she was referring to Sirius' death as the one that will be horrible to write. That is not to say, that there won't be others who do die. I hope that the trio and all of the Weasley's survive what is to follow. But whatever happens, I hope that JKR does it in such a way as not to disappoint her readers.

The way Sirius died was a shock. It was unexpected, at least for me. I always thought it was going to be Hagrid. I still think at least three other major characters will die. I do hope that their deaths are done in such a way as befits their characters.

This subject is getting quite depressing...

Of course, I could be wrong (and sincerely hope I am. I really don't want any of the other major characters to slip past the veil)

D

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Skippy - Dec 2, 2003 11:31 am (#297 of 2916)

I was reading a JKR interview, and I found this quote, (think someone might have mentioned it actually apologies if I'm repeating stuff):

JKR: No, I’ll see one more question, cause we really didn’t get an answer for that.

JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]

That seems to me to suggeest that H/H isn't going to happen, but I don't know- what do you guys think?

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Carina - Dec 2, 2003 6:45 pm (#298 of 2916)

and her killer bunny rabbit
While I contend that she ment no date forever and ever for H+H, the H+H shippers insist that she ment for that one particular book.

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Jenny M. - Dec 3, 2003 12:51 am (#299 of 2916)

I doubt we'll see Ron die - I heard JKR quoted in two different interviews that "children always beg me not to kill Ron - they've read so many books where the hero's best friend dies." (not an exact quote, sorry) Anyway, I doubt she'd stress this so much if she actually were going to kill Ron!

Mrs. Sirius, I like your theory about Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny leaving all three of HRH related somehow no matter who dies. I've always been a Ron/Hermione shipper, but you are tempting me away from Harry/Luna and Neville/Ginny!

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Devika - Dec 3, 2003 9:39 am (#300 of 2916)

I am quite a loyal R/H shipper, but I have a feeling that this is an issue that really won't be explored in the books. I mean it will probably get more apparent, but I don't feel that we'll really be treated to some Ron Hermione dates or anything like that. This will most likely come up in the 'epilogue'. I think this way beacuse HRH are a trio and if a pair is formed among them it'll totally disturb the dynamics of their realationship. And I don't think JRK would want that to happen especially since she has laid the foundations for this friendship since Book I.

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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:47 am

S.E. Jones - Dec 3, 2003 3:52 pm (#301 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Well, Devika, since you are a loyal R/H shipper, I thought I'd share this link with you that I post quite a while back called Dating in the Dark that points to the possibilities of a R/H ship already underway....

By the way, I ran across this today on MuggleNet, Northtower #11, Hermione: Legendary Heartbreaker and Cause of Trouble which puts a very old Greek twist to the HP 'ship world....

Enjoy.....

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Fawkes Forever - Dec 4, 2003 2:53 am (#302 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hey Sarah, Yeah I read that Heartbreaker Editorial a week or so ago & was quite shocked! Then I called back into to Mugglenet again to discover that the guy who wrote it made it up, to teach us all a lesson that we shouldn't believe or be swayed by everything we read.... (Rita Skeeter - take note )

He wrote another editorial about this, Trashing a Theory

I must say I felt a bit cheated....

Devika, check out Ron and Hermione - Romance, or No Chance? on mugglenet as well, makes for interesting reading for R/H shippers

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S.E. Jones - Dec 4, 2003 12:26 pm (#303 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Yeah, I knew it was fake but I found it quite funny (you gotta admit, it made for a darn good chuckle ). We actually discussed the real Greek story behind Hermione somewhere (EZboards maybe?) and decided it wasn't very probable and was a little too soap opera-ish, and it was't anything like that, I don't think.

There's also another one, Who's Bewitching Who?, that was pretty good....

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milti girl - Dec 7, 2003 8:04 am (#304 of 2916)

I like the idea of Ron/Luna very much.

A lot of people have told me I'm like Luna -- detached, dreamy, vague, considered a little crazy...and I get the feeling Luna liked Ron a lot. Look how she laughed at his joke on the train, look how she keeps calling him Ronald and cheering him and his House on at Quidditch matches, and also look how irritated Ron gets with her because he can't get her personality a single bit. Ron is like a guy I liked, Brian. Brian had a horrible temper (like Ron), he thought I blabbed a load of rubbish (*blushes* oh, well...), he thought I was stupid because I would gaze dreamily into space and stare at nothing and think about nothing, and very often, I would ask my friends, "Didn't Brian come today?" and they'd be like, "Um, he's right there, milti, in front of your face. Which world do you live in?!" I'm not here to just talk about myself, actually. Ron is my absolute FAVOURITE character, and Luna comes in next. Astrologically speaking, I would say Luna is most likely an Aquarian like me (she has every single mad Aquarian quality!) Ron of course is a Pisces, his birthday being on March 1 (as JKR herself said during the interview with Comic Relief.) Aquarius finds Pisces slightly too emotional, neverthless mysterious, because Pisceans tend to keep a lot of secrets. Pisceans find Aquarians plain annoying, but Aquarians are the sort of people who 'grow' on others. I think Luna would grow on Ron, and he'd come to see she's a nice person after all, underneath all her weirdness. Brian was a Sagittarian (sorry, I keep saying I've got over him, but I wonder if I really have...) and I think Ron has a lot of some Fire sign in him (either Aries or Sagittarius) because he has a very short temper, whereas a true Piscean is gentle and submissive. I still don't know what I really saw in Brian, just like a lot of people are wondering what Luna sees in Ron. I liked his honesty, his vulnerability, and his short temper, and one more thing that really attracted me to him was his name. I LOVE the name Brian, it's the most beautiful name in the world and I have a feeling Luna thinks on the exact same lines as me. Look how she keeps calling Ron 'Ronald'! Everytime Brian had a temper tantrum (he once broke the door handle in class) I fell more in love with him. People told me I was mad to like Brian because he was the biggest jerk on earth, but I didn't care what they said, and I liked him a lot, and I guess I still do. I keep wishing he'd like me back too but he thinks I'm too weird for him. He's always telling people he doesn't know what to make of me. I hope Ron and Luna won't be in this sad state i am with Brian, but now you'd see why I believe in this relationship so greatly! It's the embodiment of my idea of what a perfect relationship should be like. I'm sorry I blabbed on about Brian, but this is a living example of how a Luna is attracted to a Ron and she doesn't get the same feelings back, and hopefully in time the Ron will come to see that the Luna is a nice girl after all, and they will be good friends, if nothing else. *sigh* Well, I'm happy at least someone knows how I feel even if my own Ron is absolutely clueless...

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Devika - Dec 8, 2003 3:30 am (#305 of 2916)

Well Milti girl I am sorry you didn't have luck with Brian, but somehow I don't think that the Ron/Luna relationship will develop into anything in that direction.

First of all I don't see any sort of tension between the two of them. Luna has been portrayed as a dreamy and 'loony' sort of person from the beginning, and all the instances mentioned by Ron Luna shippers can be attributed with equal ease to the peculiarities of her own nature.

On the other hand Luna has no reason to like Ron... well I know this sounds a bit stupid but try to think about this. Luna has no familiarity with Ron... he is a year senior to her, in a different house, he moves around in a totally different friend circle, and he shows no interest in her.

In any case even if she does have a crush on him I feel it would be quite amateurish - something like what Ginny felt for Harry in CoS ( I'm not saying that she doesn't like him anymore- just that I think she has much more matured sentiments after getting to know him). Back to Luna - she just seems to be vaguely interested in the trio especially since they too seem to indulge in 'different' activities and act 'different' from the rest.

Plus... it seems that in an indirect manner JKR has been giving us the message that adolescent crushes do not normally have a very strong basis, especially those based on first impressions (Harry/Cho). It is highly unlikely therefore that she will give a future to this relationship which doesn't seem to have much behind it, unlike the R/H pair which I feel has a greater chance.

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Czarina - Dec 8, 2003 4:03 pm (#306 of 2916)

I think Luna was introduced to give Harry a new friend besides Ron, Hermione and the other Gryffindors. Maybe there will be some chemistry between Harry and Luna, but I doubt it. She just adds a new perspective.

Luna also appears to be friends with Ginny, which may be an indication that Ginny has moved on from her days as Harry's admirer. Prior to Book 5, Ginny's girlfriends seemed restricted to Hermione. Hermione, meanwhile, doesn't have ANY girlfriends other than Ginny. I think Hermione and Luna are actually a lot alike, despite their very different mindsets. I wouldn't be surprised if Luna plays a big role in the last books, especially if Neville is as well.

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milti girl - Dec 9, 2003 11:43 am (#307 of 2916)

Yeah, I think Luna and Neville will really be able to connect. Maybe Luna was put in there so that Neville would get a true friend who would understand him.

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coolbeans3131 - Dec 9, 2003 1:12 pm (#308 of 2916)

What about Neville getting pulled into the whole scene at the end because he was trying to help Ginny, and her getting mad when he called himself a nobody? Doesn't anyone think they might get together? They went to the Yule Ball together. I think it would be cute.

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Neville Longbottom - Dec 9, 2003 2:17 pm (#309 of 2916)

But it was the same Yule Ball, during which Ginny started to date Michael Corner. So I somehow doubt the date with Neville was a big success. Still, I don't dislike the Neville/Ginny couple.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 9, 2003 7:32 pm (#310 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Okay I'm not going to read all 309 posts but let me say this. I am a Harry/Hermione shipper all the way but don't think that there is any way that is going to happen. If it doesn't end up being Ron/Hermione then I think Rowling has managed to confuse me more than any other author. I reread the books so many times looking for evidence to support both these ships and have come to the conclusion that the evidence supporting the latter well outweighs the former. Sorry to all my fellow H/Hr shippers out there but I'm just trying to be reasonable.There are plenty of other great girls out there for Harry if he ever learns how to actually deal with them. (I think all males have given up on trying to understand females; so dealing with them is next best.) All females of the Lexicon please don't flame me; I am but a humble college student still learning the complexities of the female mind.

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Weeny Owl - Dec 9, 2003 10:55 pm (#311 of 2916)

Hi, Brandon... here, have a little flame:

We women don't understand you men anymore than you understand us. I like Hermione having to explain Cho's feelings to Harry, and then Ron saying no one could feel all that without exploding. Of course, Hermione says something about him having the emotional range of a teaspoon.

I think Ron and Hermione are good together. If Ron ever develops enough to truly see her as a girl and not a buddy, their relationship could progress by leaps and bounds.

I'm not sure Harry is destined for anyone, but if he is still alive at the end, I can see him with Ginny much easier than with Hermione. I think Ginny is biding her time, having fun dating other guys, but I think her crush could mature into a lasting thing.

Neville and Luna, regardless of any hints in the books or not, would be a couple I'd like to see.

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Czarina - Dec 10, 2003 6:38 am (#312 of 2916)

Could you imagine Neville and Luna's kids at Hogwarts? Dreamy and clumsy! (for their first couple years, at least)

Now that Ginny has grown out of her childhood crush on Harry, I think Harry will come to realize how much HE likes her. I don't think Ginny has entirely got over Harry, either. I could actually see Ginny helping Harry in an important moment during Book Six or Seven and it all spiralling from there...

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 10, 2003 10:10 am (#313 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Edited by S.E. Jones Dec 29, 2003 5:31 pm
Weeny Owl, one quick comment: you can never go wrong with guys and sports... There you go, the big secret about us guys! We need almost nothing, just give us some die hard sport where people have the chance of getting smacked around and we'll be fine. GO QUIDDITCH!!! Sorry about that to any guys who don't like sports, but come on, you're a male; testosterone mean anything to you. Anyways I don't want to get in trouble for getting a war started between the sexes on the Lexicon so I humbly ask for no one to take this as a challenge and start flaming anyone... me in particular.

Okay back to the subject at hand; like I said before I am a H/Hr shipper all the way. Before bed every night I pray that J.K. was only kidding and Ron and Hermione really don't like each other that way. I'm not sure if this will work considering that I'm an atheist. But alas, I believe my prayers will go unanswered. Actually I am working on two fanfics right now and only one of which is a H/Hr ship fic. My other is H/G so I could definitely live wish Harry and Ginny getting together. I agree with both Weeny Owl and Czarina; I think that Ginny still has her crush but is simply biding her time and waiting for Harry to "eventually" make a move.

->I edited one word and deleted the following post by the same poster explaining his mistake and the correct word that was needed. If you have any questions, email me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]<- S.E. Jones

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coolbeans3131 - Dec 10, 2003 1:08 pm (#314 of 2916)

I really don't see any evidence that Hermione likes Ron. Ron like Hermione, no doubt, but I think we don't know who Hermy likes. Just my opinion. :-)

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 10, 2003 1:34 pm (#315 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Are you insane? Have you not read the books, GoF and OoP in particular. If you didn't notice the half-million clues Rowling left throughout the books maybe you should listen to the interview on the CoS DVD. Dear god, the evidence is everywhere; I don't even want to see it and I still do!

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coolbeans3131 - Dec 10, 2003 2:29 pm (#316 of 2916)

Um, no I'm not insane , I have read the books, 5 times each. Am I not allowed to have an opinion that differs from yours? I thought this was an open forum, not a Ron/Hermione forum. I actually have a lot to say about this, but maybe I'd better find some where else to do it. This is quite a pro R/H group. I think I'll just stay out of this thread.

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Denise P. - Dec 10, 2003 2:43 pm (#317 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Brandon, I understand your enthusiasm but perhaps it should be toned down a tad bit

coolbeans, this thread is for ALL 'ships. All opinions are welcomed and valued, doesn't matter if you disagree with 99.9% of those who post in this thread.

Personally, I am not a huge shipper but do admit to seeing more R/H than Hr/H examples. Those who are passionate Hr/H shippers give convincing arguments. Please, don't avoid this thread because you feel your opinion is not appreciated!

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coolbeans3131 - Dec 10, 2003 6:13 pm (#318 of 2916)

I am a H/H shipper, but I'd be the first to say they may or may not happen. Harry has no romantic feelings for Hermione, and while I feel it's possible Hermione has romantic feelings for Harry, it's just as possible she doesn't. JKR has made her feelings mysterious.

I try to get into JKR's mind. In interviews before OotP, she mentioned R/H several times and made it seem obvious. Why then didn't it happen in OotP? It seemed like a natural progression from GoF. Even people who don't like the R/H ship thought it was going to happen.

She made it plain as rain Ron's got a crush, but not willing to do anything about it. She made sure we know how observant Hermione is about these things. Hermione knew how Harry and Cho were feeling about things, not by things they said to her, but from her own observations the last couple of years. So, Hermione must know how he feels. He doesn't hide his jealousy.

Why then doesn't she clue him into what her relationship with Krum is? He asks about Krum. She could either admit to Ron she's dating him (and why wouldn't she), or tell Ron they're just friends. She leaves him wondering.

Instead of wondering why Hermione does this, I wonder why JKR writes it this way? Why allude to them in interviews and then not do it in the book? It makes me suspicious the way she talks about R/H in interviews. With everything else, she's so careful not to give anything away. Why, when asked about H/H does she say "R/H is where the tension is"? It would have made sense if she had done it in the book, but she was careful not to do it? Why would she talk so forcfully about R/H if she were going to do it? She doesn't do that about anything else in the book.

About the CoS DVD, she says Columbus adds feelings between the THREE of them that aren't there until book 4. Why does she say the three of them? She could have said the two of the, or just them.

I think the almost R/H hug in the movie would have been better if Ron had moved to hug Hermione and then pulled back instead of vice-versa. It would have been more in the tone of the books.

Just my thoughts.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 10, 2003 10:27 pm (#319 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Sorry guys, I really didn't mean to get so emotional. You'll probably notice a downturn in the emotion in my responses. I swear finals really did get to me badly this quarter. I am really sorry that I snapped at you coolbeans3131; please accept my virtual handshake as a token of my apology.

Okay coolbeans you have plenty of valid arguments and I would like nothing more than to believe you. But I just feel that all the evidence points in the other direction. (I really, really, really, hope you're right but just can't justify it... yet.)

Until I see solid evidence that Hermione has feelings for Harry or vice versa I will continue to think that Ron and Hermione will get together. But I did like your point about Rowling giving up so much information about this subject, I myself have wondered about this. Seems kind of fishy to me.

I can only hope that I am wrong here.

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coolbeans3131 - Dec 11, 2003 5:44 am (#320 of 2916)

Apology accepted. :-)

One more thing I've noticed is we've never seen Hermione have a physical response to Ron. We've seen Ginny blush and avoid eye contact and such over Harry. We've seen Cho's blushes and sly looks to Harry. We've seen Ron's reaction to Hermione's kiss on the cheek. We've seen Harry's stomach flops and he probably blushed and such, because Hermione noticed he liked Cho. We've seen nothing like this from Hermione towards Ron, or Harry or Krum, for that matter.

What about the Christmas gifts?

pg. 503 US edition

"Thanks for the book, Harry!" she said happily. "I've bee wanting that New Theory of Numerology for ages!" And that perfume is really unusual, Ron."

Two exclamation points for Harry's gift and "unusual" for Ron. It was the most romantic gesture Ron's ever made. JKR could have added a little blush there from Hermione.

What about the kiss? This is the first time she's done this, you can tell by Ron's reaction. This kiss is all about distracting him so he doesn't notice the badges the Slytherins are wearing. It works great too, because she knows he likes her, and so knew he would be very distracted by it. It was a very kind thing to do. She really cares about Ron, but there was nothing romantic about the kiss. She could have done lots of little things like that throughout the last few books if she wanted to encourage Ron, to give him enough confidence to ask her out. She never has though.

Does anyone want me to keep going?

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 11, 2003 7:27 am (#321 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Okay this I did not think about; that is defintely very strong evidence, that's for sure. But I think the main flaw in your theory is that you're thinking of Hermione as a typical girl. She's the opposite of typical; she scowls at Krum's fan club, she doesn't care about her looks as much, and from what I can tell she doesn't really have that many close "girlfriends." We can't expect Hermione to act the same way as other girls when it comes to emotion, she bottles it up. I think that what we're going to have is a huge build up and she's just going to explode (actually that does sound typical...just kidding,) well you know that temper of hers. Of course this could be taken both ways in the fact that because she doesn't think or act like a typical girl that her actions point towards her affections towards a certain raven haired friend or to a certain red headed friend. I don't know if it was just me but I noticed a change in Hermione's actions in OoP. At the beginnig it seemed like she was really trying to appease Harry by saying continually, "we wanted to tell you but we promised that we wouldn't." Or something to that effect. In some parts like when Harry was yelling at her and Ron she seemed more emotional, there was the quote that she looked like she was going to cry. But there were other parts in which she seemed more closed up, like when she was talking to Harry about Cho and makes that comment about him being as bad as Ron, or not. All this can be taken for both sides but I think this particular evidence points more towards H/Hr. There is definitely evidence to support our cause coolbeans, and you're definitely starting to make a believer out of me. But I'm not sure if there is enough evidence out there right now to make a complete turn me to one side. I think I'm still gonna straddle the fence on this issue.

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Fawkes Forever - Dec 11, 2003 8:38 am (#322 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
"No, it's just...how did she know Viktor asked me to visit him over the summer?"
Hermione blushed scarlet as she said this, and determinedly avoided Ron's eyes.
"What?" said Ron, dropping his pestle with a loud clunk.
...
"And he did say he'd never felt the same way about anyone else,"
Hermione went on, going so red now that Harry could almost feel the heat coming from her" Goblet Of Fire

When further discussing Victor in OotP...
Ron was looking at Hermione suspiciously.
"You're not still in contact with him are you?"
"So what if I am?" said Hermione coolly, though her face was a little pink. "I can have a pen pal if I --"
"He didn't only want to be your pen pal," said Ron accusingly.
Hermione shook her head exasperatedly and ignored Ron, who was continuing to watch her.

Two examples of Ms Grangers blushes...

I noted this last night (I'm re-reading OotP), when Hermione mistakenly thinks Harry has been made prefect, she blushes when she realises her mistake. But the interesting thing is that she blushes even harder when she tries to praise Ron & give reason why he deserves the badge. She also sticks up for him in front of Fred & George (sorry don't have my book here... could some nice kind soul find that quote for me ... got the other quotes from Mugglenet ... bless them )

About the perfume gift, perhaps Hermione was embarrassed to get a gift like this from Ron (must admit Ron is trying here, perhaps Ginny gave him a few tips ), so she decided not to make a big deal about it... but wanted to let him know that it was appreciated all the same, even if she wasn't too keen on the perfume.. the term 'unusual' to me indicates this... as though Ron tried to buy a girly gift, but didn't quite get it right.... but he tried... & she was flattered that he did try, dare I say secretly delighted !

She is aware that Ron has some feelings towards her... Lets face it... Ron doesn't exactly play down the jealousy thing... but she is still confused as to her own feelings... (In my opinion) Sometimes its hard to separate strong friendship feelings with romantic ones.... add in a few raging hormones to the mix, which leads to extra confusion. Hermione, being the logical person that she is, won't 'risk it' until she is sure of her mind & heart! Nothing can destroy a friendship quicker than a romance that goes wrong... Perhaps they are both aware of this! It is clever of JK to keep us guessing as to Hermiones feelings... & then we have the whole 'Krum thing'... hee hee, she does like to keep us on our toes!

As for the kiss on the cheek… hmmm, a diversionary tactic perhaps... but it shows that she at least cares about him, even if it’s non romantic feelings...

I also noted last night.... in OotP, that when Fred & George knock Ginny down the stairs in Grimmauld place, the first thing Harry asks when he hears this, is if Ginny is ok. Later, after meeting Cho on the train, (whilst he’s covered in Stink Sap) Harry is annoyed that he wasn't sitting in a compartment laughing with 'cool people'.. (sorry I'm paraphrasing), but he elaborates on this, by saying that he's more or less embarrassed to be seen in the company of Neville & Luna... but he didn't say Ginny! So he does like her company... well as a mate... but it's a start

EDIT : Opps I think thats my longest post ever... but there are a 'few' quotes that pad it out ... sorry ... I don't normally concern myself too much with the whole 'ship thing.... looks like I'm a closet R/H H/G shipper ... lol

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Sly Girl - Dec 11, 2003 3:31 pm (#323 of 2916)

That was a bloody brilliant post, Fawkes Forever and you made a point I was about to make before I read your post. Smile

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Hem Hem - Dec 11, 2003 7:05 pm (#324 of 2916)

Another example of Hermione showing some physical response to Ron is when Fleur kisses him. GoF says that Hermione frowned furiously or something. Anybody have the exact reference?

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Devika - Dec 12, 2003 2:36 am (#325 of 2916)

I'm starting to think that there are more clear references to Hermione liking Ron than vice versa!

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Jenny M. - Dec 12, 2003 3:24 am (#326 of 2916)

I have been firmly convinced of R/H ever since that post-Yule-Ball fight that Harry witnessed: Ron shouts at Hermione over going with Krum, and she replies that maybe he should have asked her first instead of as an afterthought. That is total foreshadowing.

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coolbeans3131 - Dec 12, 2003 8:36 am (#327 of 2916)

Well, I did myself in with using the word never about Hermione's blushes. Will I ever learn?

Hermione does blush in those instances, but it's not the same as Harry and Cho meeting eyes and Cho blushing. Hermione is embarrassed, just like Harry was when they were discussing the whole Cho kissing thing. Also Harry tried to not meet Hermiones eyes a couple times in OotP, but there's nothing romantic about it.

I'm not trying to push H/H here. That's what I'd *like* to see, but my point is, I think it's a wide open field. JKR doesn't tell us so-and-so likes so-and-so. She leaves it up to us to interpret things the way we want. I love that about her. There would never be a thread like this, if she didn't leave some things vague.

I think she hasn't let us know a lot of things about Hermione, things that have nothing to do with shipping. The girl can keep a secret (Lupin's a werewolf).

I also think a triangle will happen in some form. I think there will be some kind of jealousy, or misunderstanding of some kind. Maybe JKR strengthened H/H's friendship just so that Ron might feel insecure or threatened and make some kind of mistake. Maybe if R/H happen, Harry won't like it and will feel left out and pull back from them.

I just don't think JKR is going to do R/H or H/H in any big way, unless it plays a significant role in the plot of the book.

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Devika - Dec 12, 2003 11:02 am (#328 of 2916)

I agree with you coolbeans even though I am a R/H shipper that this aspect won't be done in a big way in the books unless it is crucial to the plot. Half of what she writes is to show that the trio aren't abnormal kids - they too have 'boyfriend/girlfriend' stuff going on. But to think that this will be a major part of the books is quite unimaginable. I had said in an earlier post that this could disturb the dynamics of their friendship and it would be unfair since its foundations were laid so early in the books.

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Fawkes Forever - Dec 12, 2003 11:31 am (#329 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Sly Think I just got off the fence with the ship thing

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milti girl - Dec 14, 2003 7:15 am (#330 of 2916)

"We women don't understand you men anymore than you understand us. I like Hermione having to explain Cho's feelings to Harry, and then Ron saying no one could feel all that without exploding. Of course, Hermione says something about him having the emotional range of a teaspoon."

Tell me about it! Men are the most complex creatures on earth, and I don't know if it's because they're calculating or if it's because they're clueless. Could someone please tell me about the male mind??

Of course, Ron is a different matter. He makes it quite obvious he's taken up with Hermione. Hermione is the more complex one. I can't decide whethr she likes Ron back or not. Sometimes I feel she's pitying Ron, like trying to tell him to forget about her because she likes someone else. And i don't know what that whole thing with Krum is for. She doesn't seem to be the leading-on type, does she?

Hey, Ron need not frear. I'm not a H/Herm shipper at ALL, but I don't mind the idea of Ron/Herm. Although I think Ron would probably deserve better -- and he has his own admirers. Like Luna. Yaaayyyy, way to go, luna! The girl has taste!

"I also think a triangle will happen in some form. I think there will be some kind of jealousy, or misunderstanding of some kind. Maybe JKR strengthened H/H's friendship just so that Ron might feel insecure or threatened and make some kind of mistake. Maybe if R/H happen, Harry won't like it and will feel left out and pull back from them."

I personally feel this 'triangle' business has already been put into effect. What about the whole Krum thing? Ron's jealous to the core. And if there is a triangle I think Luna will be the one to tell Ron she likes him and then Hermione will get all jealous (that is, if she likes him back. I swear, she's SO not-readable!)

I'm confused because I think Luna likes Ron and Ron likes Hermione; Ron also seems to want Harry and Ginny to get together. Remember the 'furtive' look he throws Harry towards the end of OOP when they're talking about Ginny dating Dean?

I wonder how JKR will work this out. She says the next two books will be shorter than Book 5. How can she fit in all the relationship stuff AND the real story!

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Czarina - Dec 15, 2003 8:25 am (#331 of 2916)

milti girl: "How can she fit in all the relationship stuff AND the real story!"

Simple, really. Blend them together. Make the relationship stuff PART of the "real story." Sort of a parallel storyline, or a backdrop. That might not make any sense to anybody else besides me, though -- sorry. I invent my own terminology.

I think Hermione just has a teenage crush on Krum -- she hasn't SEEN him in over a year by the end of OP. Meanwhile, she spends everyday with Ron and Harry, to some extent. That's probably why she discounts a relationship with either of them: they are just "friends" to her. I think she and Ron will get together, though. I don't think that she has FIGURED OUT that Ron likes her. She seems rather oblivious to that fact, despite their arguments in GOF/OP. Even if she does notice, she can't imagine the two of them as a couple. He's her friend...right?

Harry, meanwhile, has a lot on his plate. After this interlude with Cho, I think any relationship for him will be second to his mission to kill Voldemort. Maybe during one of his battles (surely there will be some skirmishes in 6&7), he will have to save or be helped by Ginny/Luna. Suddenly he realizes how much she means to him...hopeless romantic, sorry!

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Sharker11 - Dec 15, 2003 4:34 pm (#332 of 2916)

"Tell me about it! Men are the most complex creatures on earth, and I don't know if it's because they're calculating or if it's because they're clue less. Could someone please tell me about the male mind??" Laughing out Loud. Were pretty simple as we get older.

I don't think Hermione would be good for Ron, she's a dominating person and he's already been dominated enough by Mrs. Weasley. Nor, do I think that she would be good for Harry, espessially after the think in the forest about the hero-complex. I'm thinking for her, Malfoy, if he would only stop brown-nosing. It would work if he wasn't such a racist.

I doubt Ginny just wake up one day and said no more crush on Harry, so their can be something their in the future. Luna would work for Harry as well, especially with the thing at the end of OotP. I believe she has been described as an anti-Hermione.

I'm thinking for Hermione, books and an Unicorn (check properties).

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S.E. Jones - Dec 29, 2003 6:51 pm (#333 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Hem Hem: Another example of Hermione showing some physical response to Ron is when Fleur kisses him. GoF says that Hermione frowned furiously or something. Anybody have the exact reference?

Not only did she frown furiously, she kept ignoring Krum who was attempting to pull a beetle (Skeeter) from her hair and talk to her (about coming to visit him for the summer).

Personally, I view the "catching such-and-such's eye and blushing" as mainly a crush response or a very, very new attraction respronse, not something you do with someone you're already comfortable with or someone you already think of, in one way or anther, as your significant other (that goes back to the "are they already dating" argument). I think Hermy and Ron are too comfortable with each other to have too many blushing moments this late in the game. I think it will be more a matter of finding the piece that's missing than looking into someone's eyes and suddenly falling in love sort of thing.

Sharker11: I don't think Hermione would be good for Ron, she's a dominating person and he's already been dominated enough by Mrs. Weasley.

I disagree. I think Ron would be perfect for her because she is so controlling. He has no qualms about telling her she's a know-it-all and needs to chill out, but she still knows he means well. He gets her to calm down, just as she gets him to try a little harder.... I think they have a very good effect on each other.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 29, 2003 7:48 pm (#334 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
I seriously think that they would end up killing each other if they became a couple. All the sign seem to point that wasy but I seriously doubt that they would last very long. It would probably take less than a week before Ron would accuse Hermione of spending to much time with Harry or something like that. I would hate Rowling for the rest of my life if she ended putting Ron and Hermione together and having them last. I am fine with almost every other ship out there (except Hermione Malfoy.) I see a strong case for mutual affection between Ron and Hermione but I think that there is no possible way that they would last as a couple. Ron would just do something stupid or simply make Hermione and Harry both miserable. He would make Harry miserable because when Ron is unhappy he tends to make other people unhappy also.

Let me just say this real quick: everyone that knows me well always says that I can read people well. The one thing I see in a relationship between Ron and Hermione is failure, utter and complete destruction, armageddon if you get what I'm saying. Ron and Hermione may very well get together, but it will not last!

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S.E. Jones - Dec 29, 2003 8:50 pm (#335 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Hm, maybe I'm just biased because they remind me so much of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley (Hermy and Molly are both very controlling and both Ron and Arthur are much more, well, Type B personality) and they remind me so much of my own parents. Yes, they get on each others' nerves, and they absolutely delight in doing it (in a good way, that is). They've lasted a long time, almost thirty-five years, so I guess that's why I see Ron and Hermy lasting so long, because my parents are like them and they have.....

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 29, 2003 9:13 pm (#336 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
S.E. my parents love to be sarcastic (I wonder where I got that from) but if they acted like Ron and Hermione I know that they would have killed each other by now. No one deserves the kind of abuse that they would put each other through.

One thing: I see no similarities between Ron and Hermione and Arthur and Molly Weasley. Arthur is more quiet and relaxed, he seems like Charlie whom we have only met once. Ron seems more like a mix between the Twins, and Molly. He likes to have fun, but he can also be very overbearing and somewhat mean. Ron used to be my favorite character but after the whole GoF disaster I've hated him with a passion. I loved it in the last book when Harry took out his anger on Ron.

Ron has a horrible temper and so does Hermione, that just won't work. Two people who constantly fight and bicker will never make it as a couple. Ironically the very person I think would be best for Hermione seemed to be stopping the fighting between them. Harry was able to calm and stop the fighting between Ron and Hermione through his own anger. When Hermione was concentrating all her emotions on Harry she got along with Ron. It seems like the only way that Hermione and Ron can last as a couple is if Hermione concentrates all her anger and frustration on Harry. But you know that he wouldn't be able to stand that and would snap.

So I will say it again: Ron and Hermione will not last as a couple.

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Sly Girl - Dec 29, 2003 10:18 pm (#337 of 2916)

Brandon, try reading a bit of Jane Austen for couples that seem impossible. She was a wiz kid at it. Think Emma and Knightly (indeed Ron and Hermione seem to be switched in this instance) Think Darcy and Elizabeth. The last couple were people that hated each other and argued about everything at the drop of hat and yet they grew to love and understand each other and respect each other's differences.

There is nothing that says Ron cannot change and mature, there is nothing that says Hermione can't soften and be less severe. I believe that the two will bring out the best in each other, not the worst. I think in book 5 we are seeing a more mature Ron and Hermione. Don't compare the arguing and bickering of book 4 to the rest of the series. A lot of things are going to happen to our trio, the least of which is just basically growing up and letting some things go. I think Ron will realize Hermione drives him crazy and that he likes it that way. He'll soften and so will she. Love does crazy things to even the most impenatrable soul.

Edit: Ah I didn't read your post well enough. It seems you have a problem with Ron. Why is that do you think? I mean, I don't claim to excuse Ron's actions at all, but he was only a 14 year old boy and Harry was hardly an angel, himself. For two boys to have never fought about something or had a falling out... well, let's just say, it doesn't happen. I think Ron has proven his loyalty to Harry many times. Ron is one of the most human characters JKR has ever written and to hate him for his weakness is ... well, sort of petty. Ron isn't perfect anymore than Harry is. And they both were stubborn and pig headed during that section.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 29, 2003 10:32 pm (#338 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Would you completely desert your friend just because you thought they got more attention than you, because they had more money than you, even though you have your entire family alive and he has nothing? Would you have ever done anything like that?

Ron is a prat, plain and simple. He is not mature now and shows no signs of maturing in the future. Personally I think that Malfoy shows more maturity than Ron.

Second of all Ron is a complete idiot, he wouldn't even be passing any of his classes if it weren't for Hermione. And I doubt whether or not he should even be in Gryffindor. He definitely is not chivalrous, he has only shown glimpses of bravery, he's isn't all that daring. Ron is the embodiment of the ideal bad friend. He doesn't stick with you when you need him, he's jealous, and he doesn't help out much.

Personally if I hadn't missed the most annoying character vote in the vote thread Ron would have been my first choice. Anyone who wants to argue that Ron is a great friend can give me all the points they like but all I have is three words for you, Tri-Wizard tournament.

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S.E. Jones - Dec 29, 2003 11:07 pm (#339 of 2916)

Let it snow!
There is nothing that says Ron cannot change and mature, there is nothing that says Hermione can't soften and be less severe. I believe that the two will bring out the best in each other, not the worst. I think in book 5 we are seeing a more mature Ron and Hermione.

I completely agree here, Sly. Infact, I was greatly surprised at how much calmer Ron was in OP compared to GF. I had expected him to become even worse but instead found him to have mellowed somehow during the summer. As for the comparison between Ron and Hermione, JKR makes the comparison herself, via Harry, in OP by comparing their stances in an argument to the way Mr. and Mrs. Weasley acted during the fight on Harry's first night in 12 Grimmauld Place. I think, perhaps, Brandon, that you are letting your dislike of a character cloud your vision of the overall plot (though that is just my opinion, so please don't take offense to it), as Sly pointed out, from a literary point of view, Ron and Hermione create a pretty typical type of romantic couple. As for their arguing leading to them killing each other, I doubt it. As I said before, my parents remind me a lot of them, both strong willed and opposite personalities, but they've been married quite happily for quite some time.

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Weeny Owl - Dec 29, 2003 11:53 pm (#340 of 2916)

I don't see Ron as a bad friend, and part of his reaction to the goings on during the Tri-Wizard Tournament were that he thought Harry had lied to him. When Ron realized that Harry was telling the truth, he apologized, or started to, anyway. One incident in five years of friendship is not unforgivable.

Ron has stuck by Harry through five books, has put himself in danger for Harry, has stood up for Harry, and is obviously, to me, a very good friend.

He may not be the brainchild Hermione is, but he isn't incompetent. He and Harry are both too lazy at times to apply themselves. He is the youngest son who is trying to find his way, and if he messes up now and then, it's understandable. After all, he is still just a kid.

As for Hermione being too intelligent for him, there are just too many factors in relationships for that to be the only reason two people are good for each other.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 30, 2003 12:00 am (#341 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
S.E. you are most likely right. I probably am not being as objective as I could be. But I really don't see much of a change in Ron from GoF to OotP. He has definitely mellowed out but I really didn't see him trying to make an effort at helping Harry when it was obvious that he was having trouble. He just doesn't seem to value their friendship as much as Harry does.

I might have missed parts because of my prejudice but it seemed like Hermione and Ginny put a lot more effort into helping Harry than Ron did. I don't think that Hermione came back from her vacation with her parents to just help the Weasley's through a tough time. I think that Ron or Ginny probably told her what they heard and how Harry was acting and that gave her just enough of a push to get to Grimauld Place. She definitely didn't like skiing all that much in the first place but I think that had they found out nothing about Harry being possessed then she wouldn't have come back. You notice that Rowling describes Hermione in Harry's room like she imediately went to him upon getting there. He seemed to be her top priority and I think this is a bit of useful information for my fellow H/Hr shippers. Obviously one of the reasons that Hermione came back from her trip was that she wanted to help the Weasleys through a tough time. But the fact that she seems to have run straight to Harry tells me that she cares more for him than she does for Ron or Ginny. She got just enough information from them before hurrying up to Harry's room.

Again, I am very biased and am always looking for any information that will discredit Ron/Hermione ships. I think that they will make a go of it but it will not last, I just don't think that their personalities compliment eachother.

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Devika - Dec 30, 2003 9:53 am (#342 of 2916)

Brandon, on the contrary, I think that Ron and Hermione complement each other really well. They are the truly cliched couple in the literary sense, just like Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. When you are introduced to one of them you can literally imagine what the partner would be like. When you are introduced to a domineering Mrs. Weasley, you can just imagine that Mr. Weasley will be somewhat meek. Ron and Hermione somehow balance out each other. Ron makes up for Hermione's I-won't-break-rules outlook and she in turn makes Ron more responsible and sensitive. And to top it all I think we have got blatant hints that they do have feelings for each other. As for Ron's degree of friendship with Harry, I feel it is totally irrelevant to a relationship with Hermione or any other relationship.

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coolbeans3131 - Dec 30, 2003 10:18 am (#343 of 2916)

My biggest problem with Ron/Hermione is the way Hermione speeks to and treats Ron. She's very sharp with him, tells him to shut up, and insults him often.

Their constant bickering isn't cute to me. It drives me up the wall. I was so glad when Harry told them to cut it out, because I felt the same way about it that he did.

I like both Ron and Hermione, and I love the trio's friendship. I just don't think a Ron/Hermione relationship would work. Maybe if Ron did something really heroic to gain Hermione's respect, because she doesn't act like she respects him.

I know most people on this forum disagree with me, but that's how I see it.

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Carina - Dec 30, 2003 11:19 am (#344 of 2916)

and her killer bunny rabbit
That's the beauty of having an intelligent discussion, coolbeans... we can disagree on certain ideas, but still like and respect the people who give them.

I agree that in real life, Ron and Hermione would probably kill each other, but from a fictional standpoint, their relationship is full of some great sexual tension (and I am in NO WAY implying anything that is not rated PG). The "will they-won't they" has driven some great storylines in my opinion. You can look at a number of great couples from literature and film to see it (Scarlett and Rhett come to mind). I'm hoping Ron and Hermione become one of those couples.

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Sly Girl - Dec 30, 2003 12:32 pm (#345 of 2916)

I don't know Brandon, Harry forgave Ron, why can't you? To forgive, after all.. is divine. And Harry was just as stubborn and uncommunicative as Ron was. True, Ron's feelings were mostly petty, but I can understand them. In fact I have empathy for him. It is hard being 2nd place in your life and when you have that in both family and friends, it is doubly harsh. What Ron didn't understand is that Harry never thought of him that way. He let his worse feelings get the best of him and who here has never done that? I'm sure we've all felt things that were wrong and perhaps even did things that hurt other people.

As I said, Ron is one of the most human characters in this story and like all humans he will make painful mistakes. Indeed, I think of all our trio, Ron is the one with the most heart. Don't get me wrong, Harry has his share as well, but there was an interesting comparison of our trio that I really enjoyed- where Hermione represented the Head or the Superego and Harry represented the Hands or Ego and Ron represented the Heart or the Id.

All three need each other to interact. In fact you could argue that in order for Harry to beat Voldemort he will need to leave the other two behind and incorporate all of the qualities of each into one. But that's a different thread.

Ron and Hermione did manage to bring an end to their bickering after Harry asked them to. This more than anything points to a willingness on both their parts to grow up. I think the next two books will show a difference in the way Hermione especially, approaches each of her friends.

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S.E. Jones - Dec 30, 2003 1:16 pm (#346 of 2916)

Let it snow!
But the fact that she seems to have run straight to Harry tells me that she cares more for him than she does for Ron or Ginny. She got just enough information from them before hurrying up to Harry's room.

But don't forget that, after she and Harry returned to his room from seeing Buckbeak, they were shortly joined by Ron and Ginny. I don't think it was so much a point of Hermione favoring Harry more than Ron and Ginny but more the three of them collaborating to help their friend who obviously needed it.

My biggest problem with Ron/Hermione is the way Hermione speeks to and treats Ron. She's very sharp with him, tells him to shut up, and insults him often.

I agree, she constantly seems to insult him, but he is constantly insulting her as well, just as so many other literary couples do. Also, as Sly pointed out, they were able to stop arguing when they wanted to, so it isn't that they grate on each other's nerves that much that they just can't stand each other. And, there are several instances of Hermione being particularly moved by Ron, such as when she noticed how upset he was over Percy's letter and so decided to help them with their homework after swearing that she wouldn't (you'll notice in that scene that she's looking at Ron and not Harry). There are other scenes like that as well, which I'm sure my fellow HP fanatics can help me out with. My point is, there is more there than what has been mentioned here, there is loyalty and compassion and friendship..... They could definately work from a literary point if not a practical one (which I still see as possible).....

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SJ Rand - Dec 30, 2003 4:06 pm (#347 of 2916)

I don't think there's much question that they are (or, in Hermione's case perhaps were) in love, even if Ron doesn't know it. Whether or not they'll end up together is another question. While reading the other posts here, I was thinking about Hermione's answer to Ron about Ginny's crush on Harry.

"But", said Ron, following Hermione along a row of quills in copper pots, "I thought Ginny fancied Harry!"

Hermione looked at him rather pityingly and shook her head.

"Ginny used to fancy Harry, but she gave up on him months ago. Not that she doesn"t like you, of course", she added kindly to Harry...

I wonder if that pitying look was not only for Ron being dense about Ginny, but about herself also. Has Hermione gotten as tired of waiting for Ron as Ginny did of waiting for Harry?

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S.E. Jones - Dec 30, 2003 4:14 pm (#348 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I definately think she getting tired, though I don't know if she's necessarily there yet. We will have to wait for Book 6 and 7 to know for sure....

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Electrostorm - Dec 30, 2003 6:12 pm (#349 of 2916)

I have read your posts in this forum for quite a while but I've finally got round to sending some of my own theories.

I'm a born 'shipper. I just love to pair people up and see what happens. Preferably I'm with the H/G and the R/Hr 'shippers. Fan Fictions have changed my mind, after reading one H/Hr fan fiction, I was definate that it would happen but now I have to say, I've taken a liking to the H/G...

I'm looking forward to all your great posts and theories. Keep up the good work! =)

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 30, 2003 9:17 pm (#350 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
I refuse to believe that behind all that anger and frustration there is pure love. I think that any writer who puts that together has major problems and has no clue how people actually interact. Hermione and Ron may very well get together, most of the evidence points that way. However if two people in real life acted the same way towards eachother there would be no possible way that they would get together and "live happily ever after." So far Rowling has shown that she has a fairly in depth knowledge of the human psychie. But if she puts Ron and Hermione together permanently then I will seriously doubt her sanity. With her being a married woman I find it hard to believe that she would really think that two people with counteracting personalities can stay happy together. If I had a girlfriend that treated me half the way that Hermione acts towards Ron then I would drop the relationship in a heartbeat.Ron just grates Hermione's temper and Hermione just gets on Ron's nerves. Both of them would have to completely change their personalities for a relationship to last.

I think that Hermione probably has a crush on Ron, the evidence certainly points that way. But I think that she will quickly figure out that a relationship with Ron will just not do. Anyone who compares Ron and Hermione's bickering to a married couple has never seen a happy married couple. I would love to see two people bicker like that all the time and still be happily married. But stuff like that just doesn't happen in real life. Again, most of the evidence in the books points towards mutual affection between the two but in real life a relationship like theirs would never work. That is where I'm taking my arguments from, real life, real couples, if anyone can tell me that they have seen a couple that argue as much as Hermione and Ron and in the same tones and still be happy then I will concede to the R/Hr shippers out there. But the simple fact that no one can possibly be happy in that kind of relationship makes me confortable to stay with my H/Hr ship.

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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:49 am

S.E. Jones - Dec 30, 2003 11:02 pm (#351 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Brandon: I refuse to believe that behind all that anger and frustration there is pure love.... However if two people in real life acted the same way towards each other there would be no possible way that they would get together and "live happily ever after.".... I find it hard to believe that she would really think that two people with counteracting personalities can stay happy together. If I had a girlfriend that treated me half the way that Hermione acts towards Ron then I would drop the relationship in a heartbeat..... Anyone who compares Ron and Hermione's bickering to a married couple has never seen a happy married couple. I would love to see two people bicker like that all the time and still be happily married. But stuff like that just doesn't happen in real life.

Firstly, may I point out that they may act slightly diffently toward each other if they were actually in a relationship together. Secondly, as far as them not being realistic, I'm only going on the relationships I've witnessed in my life (my grandparents, parents, older brother and his wife, friends of the family, etc.), as I'm sure so are you, but I disagree. I know quite a few couples who fired daily verbal missals at each other but are among the happiest people I know. I'm guessing they mainly just enjoy the challenge. No one really lives "happily ever after" because there will always be days when you are angry with your spouse or whatnot, that happens in all relationships, despite personality types. To say that relationships like theirs simply don't happen in the real world is untrue. They do. I've seen them. Also, as this is still a fictional story, JKR will most likely take the Austen-like romatic route and put them together for literary purposes.....

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Devika - Dec 31, 2003 3:53 am (#352 of 2916)

In any case Brandon (or other anti-R/H shippers in case I start targeting only one person!) how can we be so sure that they won't stop this bickering once they get together. There are so many cases of people who just get on people's nerves just because they like them. That apart, I think it's a really superficial sort of bickering that they have - more like the brother sister thing. They probably enjoy it... it almost seems contrived sometimes. I think that the fact that they have this sweet and salty relationship makes them an even more likely couple.

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freshwater - Dec 31, 2003 5:28 am (#353 of 2916)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
I was wide awake at 4:30 am, so naturally I curled up on the couch with my OotP and New Clues to Harry Potter: Book 5. On p. 108 of New Clues they suggest we look for analogies in the tea cup scene (and pattern) in chapter 30 (p. 679-680 US). I was amazed at the number of potential emotional analogies buried in the (purposely distracting?) conversation. I'll outline them here, and then would love to hear what people think.

H/R/H are in Charms class working on teacups with a willow pattern. The blue willow pattern of china shows the last scene in a Chinese love story where the two young lovers escape as a pair of birds, as their fueding and devisive parents stand on the bridge below.

The behavior of H/R/H's teacups:

Harry's: "sprouted four very short legs that would not reach the desk and wriggled pointlessly in midair." (not ready for a relationship?)

Ron's: "grew four very spindly legs that hoisted the cup off the desk with great difficulty, trembled for a few seconds, then folded, causing the cup to crack in two." (tenative, reluctant....broken heart?) (("Reparo!" said Hermione quickly, mending Ron's cup with a wave of her wand.)) Ron's: "teacup stood drunkenly again, trembling violently at the knees." (willing to try again, but still scared?)

Hermione's: "catching her teacup as it scampered happily away across the desk on four sturdy little willow patterned legs and replacing it in front of her." (emotionally strong, perceptive, mature, acting deliberately?)

Ron: "now holding his cup up while its frail legs tried feebly to support its weight." (wanting to succeed in a relationship?)

Ron: "hitting his teacup so hard with his wand that its legs collapsed again and it lay twitching before him." (trying too hard?)

Hermione: "allowing her teacup to job in neat little circles around Harry's" (notice the words 'allowing' and 'circles'....hmmm....)

Harry's: "whose stubby little legs were still unable to reach the desktop." (still not ready for a relationship....stubby...any connection to Stubby Boardman: alleged by Doris Purkiss to be the real name of Sirius Black, and with whom she was sharing a candlelit dinner on the night of the Potter's murders? Is this another "stubby" relationship that never happened? :-))

Hermione's: "teacup jogged right over the edge of the desk and smashed on the floor." (sounds foreboding doesn't it?....and there is no mention of her repairing it....although 11 lines later she is about to speak to Harry and "she fixed Harry with a beady eye and opened her mouth with a determined air." Hmmmm....)

Edit: I should add that, as Hermione opened her mouth, "Harry interrupted her before she had even started." Rules from the New Clues include: rule 1) If she reinforces it, she means it; rule 2) If she suddenly interrupts something (and never finishes) she's hiding a key clue; rule 3) there's no such thing as a coincidence. Actually, Hermione did finally say what she'd started to say, but it was on a complete different topic than Harry had expected.

There's more, but I'll put it in another post just to simplify things as this post is already long!

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freshwater - Dec 31, 2003 5:41 am (#354 of 2916)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
As promised, more on the teacup scene in ch. 30 of OotP:

I found it interesting to scan down the page and note the descriptors chosen by JKR when H/R/H speak. Here they are in order:

Ron: "irritably...bitterly...darkly"

Harry: "curtly"

"said Ron and Hermione together."

"Harry hesitated."

"shocked silence"

Harry: "mutinously"

Ron: "looking thrilled"

Harry: "dully"

"Hermione said nothing at all for the rest of the lesson, but Harry had a shrewd suspicion that her self-restraint was bound to crack before long."

Also, a bit of the conversation in the middle seems very pointed:

Ron: (as his cup "stood drunkenly, trembling violently at the knees") "If you want to worry about anyone, Hermione, worry about me!"

"You?" she said, (catching her cup as it scampers happily away) "Why should I be worried about you?"

OK, so it must be obvious that, even though I'm not real concerned with the 'ships' in the series, I tend to favor Ron w/Hermione and happily-ever-after Harry w/Ginny. So, what do you guys think? Are there buried plot clues here for books 6 and 7...or should I not presume to read and think at 4:30 am?

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SJ Rand - Dec 31, 2003 10:27 am (#355 of 2916)

At least part of Hermione's caustic behavior toward Ron is from exasperation. She knows she's attracted to him. She knows he's attracted to her. She's impatiently waiting for him to put the pieces together.

I also agree with Sarah when she says: "To say that relationships like theirs simply don't happen in the real world is untrue. They do. I've seen them.". So have I. Many.

I don't know if they'll end up together, although we all need to remember that even if they do Rowling isn't writing a fairy tale where anything would be presumed to be "Happily ever after", more like "happy for now".

Ron may just be too Scrooge-like to place a human relationship above his obvious need for getting money. That need is the biggest wild card in the Harry/Ron/Hermione relationship, and could even be so great that he'll end up "selling them out". I don't think a single book has passed where he doesn't make at least one reference to his lack of money. I'm sure that those references are there for a reason.

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Weeny Owl - Dec 31, 2003 10:46 am (#356 of 2916)

Brandon:

I understand what you're saying about arguments and happy relationships, and if these characters were in their twenties or thirties, I would agree with you.

Since they're still in their teens, they aren't ready for true relationships as is evidenced by Ginny's calmness in dropping Michael Corner.

I feel that the friction between Hermione and Ron has more significance than anything between other characters. There is a tension between them that they're too young to express, and it translates (to me, anyway) in spats.

Hermione can be more relaxed with Harry because she just doesn't have romantic feelings for him. She can treat him the way she would a beloved brother. He's her friend but will never be more than that.

Ron annoys her because he's so clueless about her being a girl. After he finally sees her as more than just another buddy, the tension flows between them. They aren't mature enough at this point to know how to approach each other.

If their constant arguing were to continue after they leave school, I doubt if they'd stay together, but since they're just fifteen during OotP, I think they're more likely to have a relationship and work out the problems than anyone else.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 31, 2003 11:44 am (#357 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
"I think it's a really superficial sort of bickering that they have - more like the brother sister thing. They probably enjoy it."I think Devika hit it on the head folks, they're bickering like brother and sister.

Guys I really do see all the evidence that you're pointing out I have said before that a Ron/Hermione relationship is inevitable. But there is absolutely no evidence in my opinion that shows that a relationship between those two will last. That is my point: relationship=inevitable, long term=impossible. That is just my observation from relationships that I have seen. Considering I'm around younger people very often I think that I have a pretty good clue how they act around eachother.

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SJ Rand - Dec 31, 2003 11:48 am (#358 of 2916)

.
How many high school relationships ever do last? Even friendships often don't survive college or going into the work a day world.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 31, 2003 11:50 am (#359 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
No, more often than not they don't. But then what does that say about Ron and Hermione's future relationship?

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SJ Rand - Dec 31, 2003 11:55 am (#360 of 2916)

I'd suppose it says that if they do get together it could last up to the end of the series and, if Rowling ever does a Harry Potter: Revisited novel, we'll find out how they drifted apart because Hermione stayed to teach at Hogwarts and Ron joined his brother treasure hunting for Gingrots.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 31, 2003 11:59 am (#361 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Or how Ron was a complete prat and Hermione dumped him and is now dating Harry mwahahaha...

if Harry lives that is...

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SJ Rand - Dec 31, 2003 12:08 pm (#362 of 2916)

If we were talking about a series intended for adults, there would at least be an outside possibility that Harry might die. Not at all likely for this series though.

As we're getting offtopic, I invite anyone interested in making predictions other than relationships to come over here and join me in making a fool of myself.

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S.E. Jones - Dec 31, 2003 12:48 pm (#363 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Hm, I guess I'm just an oddball then, because the relationships I see around me do last. My brother had a select group of friends when he was in highschool and now, after 15 years and moving across half the state, he's still friends with all but about two of them. My parents were highschool sweethearts, as were my grandparents, and have happy marriages. Young bonds can grow into something stronger; it happens. Saying something is impossible in the confines of a fictional story (where is happens repeatedly) is ignoring the fact that these things do happen in real life. I'm sorry, but that's just my take on the whole thing.

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Brandon Christopher - Dec 31, 2003 12:52 pm (#364 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
I never said that it was impossible, just not probable. If I ever did say that it was impossible I revoke that statement now.

I guarantee that if Ron and Hermione get into a lasting relationship Rowling will completely change their personalities. I would put galleons on it!

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Neville Longbottom - Dec 31, 2003 8:09 pm (#365 of 2916)

How many high school relationships ever do last? Even friendships often don't survive college or going into the work a day world.

In the Potter Universe, they do. James and Lily met at Highschool, as did Molly and Arthur, even the Lestranges met at Hogwarts.

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Matt Allair - Jan 1, 2004 8:45 pm (#366 of 2916)

'Mischief Managed.......Not! (Nox)'
Brandon, I have to completely disagree with you in your points from Post #338. I feel you are taking too narrow a view on Hermione and Ron's relationship. They are 14-15, respectfully, during GOF and OOP and most kids, even if they are exceptionally bright, lack maturity at that age.

Sly Girl managed to express aptly most of what I would have added in her post #345. I don't think we can draw conclusion over a few actions in GOF or OOP, over how a 30-year-old Ron and Hermione will interact. It's simply not possible. People change, grow.

As far as questioning how true Ron's friendship with Harry is, I can't agree with you there either. Ron has reached an age where he has grown tired over living in the shadow of other's, I can't blame his feelings, even if he's was being immature. That's why him playing on Quidditch was the best development for his well being. I see no evidence that he'd ever betray Harry, furthermore his relationship with Hermione shouldn't have any bearing on his friendship with Harry.

Brandon, you have made the argument that there alleged lack of respect for each other, there fighting, means that they could not survive as a couple. You can't discount the phrase 'opposites attract'. That's the funny thing about attraction, more often than not, people who seem to have nothing in common are the ones that get into relationships.

Sorry, but I just don't agree.

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 1, 2004 8:59 pm (#367 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Well that's the thing about the Lexicon, we can agree to disagree. I simply feel that there is no way that they could stay together. I've never held in that opposites attract in relationship crud. I see everything that you guys are saying and I'm probably partially blinded by my hatred towards Ron but I just don't agree your arguments. From what we've seen so far I really do believe that they would have to completely change their personalities to be happy together. I know that you guys disagree with that but that's just what I see.

And sorry but so far from what I've seen I think that Ron is the most likely person to betray Harry. He is ambitious in his own right, extremely jealous, and is now being given most things that he wants (becoming a prefect, getting a new broom, playing quidditch, possibly the future Quidditch captain.) Hmmm, starting to sound like a certain albino ferret in my oppinion. Is there a reason why Rowling named him a Weasley (weasel) and turned Malfoy into a ferret; do they have more in common then we thought before?

If you're going for the deep seated animosity meaning attraction argument then shouldn't you be saying that Malfoy and Hermione should get together? There aren't many people that Malfoy shows more hatred towards, or many people that irritate Hermione as much. Personally at this point I would like that more than a R/Hr relationship!

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Weeny Owl - Jan 1, 2004 11:17 pm (#368 of 2916)

I really don't see that Ron and Hermione have any deep seated animosity. They are opposites in many ways, but they have strong ties on important things.

Hermione is bossy and brainy, while most of the time, Ron is more laid back and sports oriented. In many ways they truly complement each other... the yin and yang thing. One can be strong where the other is weak, and together they form a better partnership than they would otherwise.

Hermione and Ron are both Gryffindors. They've both proven themselves when it really counts. Teenagers are full of petty jealousies at times, but when push comes to shove, Ron and Hermione both care very deeply about Harry and about the outcome of the upcoming war.

I truly cannot see Ron betraying Harry unless it happens unintentionally. I see Hermione the same way. Ferret Boy, on the other hand, is a vile, snotty, spoiled, shallow, cruel, power-hungry, prejuidiced idiot, and those are his good points.

One scene that stands out for me is in the kitchens when Ron offers to give Dobby his usual Christmas sweater. He says it will go well with Dobby's tea cosy. That shows Ron's true character to me, and it's something that he and Hermione share... a true love for others.

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 2, 2004 12:02 am (#369 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Ummm, so the fact that Ron doesn't like the the sweaters Molly makes for him doesn't have anything to do with it? Did he even stop to consider how Molly would feel if she found out that he had just given away a hand-made present? That shows his true character. The Weasleys don't have much money so it seems like every gift given should be appreciated even more than usual. The fact that he could just give away a hand-made gift from his own mother just because he wouldn't like it shows his true character.

When push came to shove Ron did abandon Harry and he refused to reconcile with him until it was almost to late. This incident shows what Ron really is. He is a spoiled brat inside a poor kids body, when he doesn't get what he wants or doesn't like what's around him he turns his back on his friends. Personally I'm starting to think that if Hermione wants a boyfriend like that then she can have him. If she wants someone who will just up and abandon her when she needs him the most then she deserves him. Have some self respect and get someone who will be loyal. Need I point out that when all the Weasleys overheard Moody saying that Harry could be being possessed by Voldy he abandoned him again. All of the Weasleys including Ron gave Harry a wide berth. Ginny claimed that Harry was avoiding them afterwards but was he? When Ron came to tell Harry that dinner was ready he told him then practically ran out door; Harry doesn't even see him. This is Ron at his best, this is the real Ron, a friend who will abandon you without a second thought.

And this is why I don't think that Ron and Hermione would get together; has everyone here also forgotten that he abandoned her in third year? Sure Hermione was the one that left but that was because Ron was yet again being a jerk. All the evidence did point to Scabbers being dead but the way he handled it was immature even for a thirteen year old. Ron is taking such a long time to mature that I'm not sure if he ever will. And Hermione has been showing signs of maturity for a long time now. They jsut don't fit at all; Hermione wouldn't be able to stand being with someone as immature as Ron.

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Weeny Owl - Jan 2, 2004 12:56 am (#370 of 2916)

No one seems to like the sweaters Molly knits, but by giving one to Dobby, I think it showed Ron to be a nice person. He was thinking of making Dobby happy.

Yes, Ron is immature, but good grief... he's a kid. In PoA he's only thirteen, and thirteen-year-old boys aren't mature. Hermione wouldn't admit that Crookshanks could have eaten Scabbers... it isn't all one sided.

Girls tend to mature faster than boys emotionally, so of course Hermione will appear to be more mature than Ron or Harry. Things even out later and boys do catch up. That is a generalization, of course, and each person is different depending on upbringing and whatnot.

In OotP after the scene with Arthur being attacked, Harry nearly ran off, he stayed up with Buckbeak, and he seemed to bite off anyone's head who dared to speak to him. It wasn't only Ron avoiding him. Everyone in the house avoided him.

I like Ron. I know he has a lot of growing up to do, but the children in these books are still children and behave as such.

To me Ron is a sweet kid, and if I were his age, I'd probably have a huge crush on him. He's endearing. Maybe I see things in him because I look at him from the perspective of once having been a teenage girl myself. The majority of the boys I knew at that age were more like Ferret Boy than a sweetie like Ron.

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 2, 2004 1:52 am (#371 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Sweetie? Alrighty then... I don't have any comment other than: errr, right...

I realize that Ron was only thirteen at the time but I also said that he was immature "even for a thirteen year old." And I also remember saying that Hermione also played a part in that fiasco but that Ron was the major cause of that problem. I can't remember any of my friends at that age being that immature or materialistic at that age. If anything some of them became more materialistic with age. I think it is the fact that Ron is so tied up in material possessions that makes him even more dangerous toward Harry. I think that if there is anyone close to Harry that Voldemort can persuade to hurt Harry it would be Ron. Think about it, all he would have to do is offer Ron just the right thing in the right way. Percy tried one way, Voldy will try another, it will only take time. But that is for another thread.

But the fact that Ron is now fifteen and just as materialistic as always is a key point here. Weeny says that "thirteen year-old boys aren't mature." Well what about fifteen year old boys, or sixteen or seventeen when he's twenty-one and still as materialistic and immature as ever will you still be saying that he will grow out of it? I saw signs in OotP that he is trying to repress his feelings and have recently come to the conclusion that he will snap. I think that he will pull a Harry and go ballistic on everyone around him. But I also think that it will be much much worse than Harry. Harry isn't materialistic, he doesn't care about owning a firebolt, he managed to stop himself from buying one his third year when was thirteen. Obviously some boys mature faster than others but still he's two years ahead of Ron in that department and so far Ron is showing no signs letting up. In fact he jumps at any opportunity to point out that he has less money or that Harry has everything. Even though every time he points this out he fails to remember that he is the one with a family, that he is the one with a supporting cast of loved ones, that he has everything that Harry wants too.

I think this is probably one of the key things about Ron that I absolutely detest. He never fails to make Harry feel like the bad guy when he points out all these things. Yet he is the one that is being a bad friend.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 2, 2004 1:56 am (#372 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Personally, I feel what showed Ron's true character was when he cleared all the junk off the hats Hermione hid around the common room because he thought they (the house-elves) should see what they're picking up. Pure honest, in my opinion. But lets not forget what this thread is for, it is for discussing relationships, not Ron-bashing or whatnot.....

So does anyone think Krum will end up figuring in more prominantly in book 6, as far as the relationship sub-plots go?

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 2, 2004 2:07 am (#373 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Continuing...

If you gave someone a hand made gift that you had made and then found out that they had simply given it away how would you feel? I know that would hurt me, and I don't even get half as emotional as Molly. As for what you said about "No one seems to like the sweaters," I never got the impression that Fred or George minded them. Only Percy and Ron seemed to have any problem with them; need I point out that these two seem to be the only two materialistic Weasleys. Since the first time I read that part in the books I have always thought that Ron was insufferable. I thought that that was one of the most pathetic things I've ever read before. Other than the whole Triwizard tournament fiasco, that was Ron's worst moment.

Before Harry does any "head biting" in OotP Ron still skirted him in the halls and refused to stay in the same room with Harry. Yes all the Weasleys (except Molly) do this but if he was a good friend he would stay with him. Ginny isn't good friends with Harry and although Harry does get on well with the twins they're not really that close. That was just another time when Ron was simply being... well... Ron. When Molly was asking him if he was alright on the train ride back he was quiet and most definitely did not bite off anyone's head.

I may be looking for any excuse to dislike Ron but it seems like you are looking for any excuse to like him. I look at the facts before I judge most of the time, and Ron had his chance in my opinion, he's had multiple chances... and blown them all. He'll have to do something really drastic to redeem himself in my opinion. Even Percy won't have to do something as drastic; okay maybe that was a little bit of an exageration, but Percy would have to do something pretty similar to Ron in order to redeem himself.

S.E.--- I'm trying to establish that Ron is immature that way I can prove that he wouldn't do well with Hermione. Hermione wouldn't fit with someone as immature as Ron and I'm just trying to point out how he acts and how he isn't showing any signs of maturing at all. **And just for the record: I don't "Ron bash," I state the facts. It may seem like I'm out to get Ron because I don't like him but that's not the case. True I don't like him but I will still be rational.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 2, 2004 2:15 am (#374 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Brandon, I'm leaving your post, but the subject of Ron's maturity is closed at this point in time.

So does anyone think Krum will end up figuring in more prominantly in book 6, as far as the relationship sub-plots go?

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 2, 2004 2:26 am (#375 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Okay S.E. thanks. I think that Krum may be a factor, yes he will appear in book six and it will cause a huge row between Ron and Hermione. (Not saying anything about maturity,) Ron will get upset at Hermione and will make it a Yule Ball all over again. I'm not sure how Hermione will react to this, I think that she believes that she has a crush on Ron (for now.) So one more huge fight with him may throw her over the edge and make her "crush" completely disappear. Maybe after all this is when Ron will finally make his move; but ironically Hermione will have lost all affection towards him by then.

Maybe the way that Krum will appear is that there is another Yule Ball and Krum manages to ask Hermione out before Ron again. This would literally make it the "Yule Ball all over again!"

Oh I would love it if this happened, Ron getting his "just deserts!"

P.S. SE if someone comments on my post can I respond to it or should I just leave it?

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Devika - Jan 2, 2004 2:29 am (#376 of 2916)

Brandon, I have totally failed to understand how exactly Ron's character, maturity and his loyalty to Harry and others is related to his relationship with Hermione. Do you mean to say that people with a few faults will not find partners or friends?? In any case if we do want to discuss Ron's character traits, we should be on the Ron thread. That said, even if we go by your asessment of his character, I think Hermione is the perfect one to help him become a better person. She is the girl who understands him best and I think they are a perfect pair.

And I was just looking through some earlier post where you quoted me saying that Ron and Hermione fight like brother and sister. I actually meant that they share the closeness of a brother and sister, not the platonic nature of that relationship.

S.E. I'm not sure Krum will figure importantly for relationship sub-plots. I mean it kind of reminds me of the speculation about Bill and Fleur that was rampant before OoP. But finally, nothing happened. I think Krum will remain a 'third-person' throughout, maybe even serving to be the catalyst to bring R/H together, but I don't think anything apart from that.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 2, 2004 2:36 am (#377 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't know that I'd say nothing happened between Bill and Fleur. I mean, they did start dating in OotP, so, technically, all the speculation was right. I agree that Krum will be a catalyst for something, but just what is still up in the air....

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 2, 2004 2:41 am (#378 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
If Krum does become the catalyst in bringing Ron and Hermione together then wouldn't he be a major part of the book? Even if he doesn't actually appear in the book wouldn't that be a major part in the plot? Third-person he may be but minor I doubt.

I agree with S.E. though a catalyst for what...

I already asked in my last post but just in case you missed it S.E. can I respond if someone says something about my posts about Ron's maturity or sould I just leave it?

edit: thanks S.E.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 2, 2004 2:54 am (#379 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Brandon, as Devika so graciously pointed out, if there if further need to "discuss Ron's character traits" (such as his maturity, most especially if there is no concise, direct link made between the trait and a 'ship), it should be left to the Ron thread. Thank you....

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Madame Librarian - Jan 2, 2004 7:33 am (#380 of 2916)

Regarding Krum: he's older than HRH, right? Is he one year or two years older, I forget? Never mind. I think there may be some reappearance of his character ostensibly as a potential beau for Hermione (and therefore a stimulant for Ron to step forward and open up to her about his true feelings), but that would simply be a plot device to get him back at Hogwarts or London. His real raison d'etre at that point will be to create a link plotwise with goings on at Durmstrang and the DE or Order networks in eastern Europe, or wherever he's from. By this I don't mean that he's necessarily a good or bad guy, just that he may unknowingly pass on information or relate a curious event that is key. It could work in reverse, too. He may inadvertently take info back with him.

So, I'm not really advocating his return as evidence of a true 'ship here, but just as a tool for JKR to move things along in another plot line.

I'm at a loss as to where this sort of speculation really belongs. The predictions thread?

Ciao. Barb

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freshwater - Jan 2, 2004 11:17 am (#381 of 2916)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Weeny Owl: Gotta say, I LOVE your description of Ferret Boy (post 368)!

I've been wondering how Krum will play into future story lines...remember Draco's comment that at Durmstrang they actually teach the Dark Arts, not just defensive stuff? Krum could return as either an asset or an enemy to the Order. To move from predictions to ships....what would his relationship with Hermione be then? Is is currently enough to move him to support the right side in the coming war? Or will training and allegiences outweigh his emotional attachments?

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Aimeé - Jan 4, 2004 9:08 pm (#382 of 2916)

I really go for the Ron/Hermione, it's obvious to me because, in Hermoine's case she showed that she was jelous about Ron fancing Fleur, but she didn't react like that when Harry was after Cho. And there's still the fact that both of them were jelous, Ron of Krum and Hermione of Fleur on the GoF. I also think that nis possible an Harry/Luna because at the end of OoP, they realized that they had more things in common than they expected, though it's not certain yet.

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James Greenfield - Jan 8, 2004 2:26 am (#383 of 2916)

I guess it's time for me to stop just reading these postings, and get involved. I'm probably older than most of the rest of you (almost McGonigal's age) and have (1) read a lot of fiction that involved "ships", and (2) observed a lot of real relationships in my (increasingly younger) friends and relatives. Anyway, I have apparently developed a sense of when a boy and girl, or young man and young woman, begin to become what I call a "couple", that is, seriously interested in each other for a probably long-term relationship. Anyway, based on my reading of all five novels, and all the postings on this thread, I must say I think Ron and Hermione are just about to become a couple (in the sense I stated above), and, probably, so are Harry and Ginny. Oh, and for what it's worth, I'd say Draco and Pansy are already at that stage. And Percy and Penelope. And Ernie and Hannah.

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Flame Alligator - Jan 10, 2004 6:05 am (#384 of 2916)

I think Harry will remain single like Dumbledore but he will have a number of relationships that just don't work out.

I see Ron and Hermione, maybe Neville and Luna, Percy and Penelope, that one is easy. And I wish Draco on Cho.

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Phineas - Jan 10, 2004 7:35 am (#385 of 2916)

And I wish Draco on Cho

Why? Do you think she must be punished?

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Weeny Owl - Jan 10, 2004 10:55 am (#386 of 2916)

FC:

We don't know Dumbledore is single. We haven't seen a wife mentioned anywhere, but considering Dumbledore's age, he could be a widower.

Cho may not have been right for Harry, but she's hardly a monster who should be stuck with that vile, nasty, disgusting, shallow, prejudiced, cruel, evil ferret. Give the girl a break!

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 10, 2004 12:28 pm (#387 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Weeny, I have always thought that either Dumbledore was once married and is now a widower as you mentioned. Or he and McGonagall are in a relationship and we just don't know it. I think that this second answer is less likely simply from the first chapter of SS/PS when McGonagall waits for Dumbledore at the Dursleys. If she was having a relationship with him then he would have told her what was happening. Important information like that is simply stuff you don't keep from your significant other.

Flame A. I laughed so hard when you said that. I agree that it would seem just if the ferret and Chang ended up together. Although I almost pity Draco, think about it, he would be stuck with the human hosepipe.

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Weeny Owl - Jan 10, 2004 1:28 pm (#388 of 2916)

Come on, Brandon!

Cho is a sweet, sad, mixed-up girl, but that doesn't mean she should be punished for all eternity by being stuck with Ferret Boy.

Cho may not be everyone's cup of tea, and granted, her grief is a real downer, but she may snap out of it and become a true friend and respected member of the DA.

I really can't see her with Draco, and if she knew what he had said about Cedric, I think she would be more likely to hex him than date him.

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Devika - Jan 11, 2004 7:52 am (#389 of 2916)

That'll be fun!! But about Dumbledore, I've had this feeling for a long time... he's probably married to or has a thing for Madam Pomfrey! After all he blushed when she said she liked his new earmuffs!

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timrew - Jan 11, 2004 8:59 am (#390 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
In PS/SS, Dumbledore says, "Fancy seeing you here, Professor McGonagall", when he meets her outside the Dursleys. Surely, if they were an item, and alone together (as in this case), he would address her as "Minny-Poos", or something?

Also, when Dumbledore offers her a sherbet lemon, she doesn't know what one is, even though DD is rather fond of them. If they were married, she'd probably pick them up in Hogsmeade for him when she did the weekly shopping.

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Czarina - Jan 11, 2004 10:57 am (#391 of 2916)

From what is evidenced in the books, Dumbledore and McGonagall have a platonic, but close, relationship. They have worked together work quite a while and have learned to trust each other with very important things over the years (but not entirely). As Headmaster and Deputy Headmistress, they both take charge of Hogwarts and thus have to work closely together. The same might go for Dumbledore and Pomfrey -- they have to work together. Pomfrey is one of the staff members who knows quite a bit about the situation and also keeps the most secrets (I think), as she really has to know what causes certain injuries. Dumbledore trusts her and values her opinion (hence the earmuffs comment).

As for Cho, she'll probably end up with a famous Quidditch player or someone! :-)

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Detail Seeker - Jan 11, 2004 1:29 pm (#392 of 2916)

Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Interesting enough, McGonagall calls Dumbledore "Albus", while he calls her formally as "Professor" in PS in the starting scene. It was that in the films (not canon, admitted) and in the book (At least in Plattdeutsch, I do not own the English edition, so the english quote may be different)

pg. 14 : Dumbledore: "Nee, doch, See ook hier, Fro Perfessersch Mc. Gonagall ?" (You here, too, Mrs. Profesor Mc Gonagall?)

pg 17: McGonagall: Lily un James .. dat kann ik nich glöven ... dat will ik nich glöven... Oh, Albus..." ("Lily and James... I cannot believe it... I do not want to believe his ... Oh, Albus..."

This ist the only time, she directly adresses him in this dialogue. Though she is in distress in that situation, she would not do this, if she wouldn´t do it in other situations, too.

So, this asymmetry of adressing irritates me a bit.

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timrew - Jan 11, 2004 1:46 pm (#393 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
You're right, Detail Seeker. In the English version she says, "Lily and James...I can't believe it...I didn't want to believe it...Oh, Albus...". But this could be because she was feeling so emotional.

Later in the scene, she refers to him as 'Dumbledore' three or four times, without giving him his title of 'professor'.

So what do we make of this? Married or not?

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Czarina - Jan 11, 2004 5:13 pm (#394 of 2916)

I always supposed that was because they were close colleagues and friends. She was overwhelmed at the deaths of Lily and James and called him by his first name; later she switches to the less familiar "Dumbledore." Maybe he always refers to her as "Professor" just out of habit?

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Hem Hem - Jan 11, 2004 5:31 pm (#395 of 2916)

"...he's probably married to or has a thing for Madam Pomfrey! After all he blushed when she said she liked his new earmuffs! "

Could it be that the "new earmuffs" in question are the fuzzy pink ones from the Mandrake lesson in the beginning of CoS? I was always underthe impression that they were the same.

Why else would a guy get embarrassed by somebody liking the way his earmuffs look?

Anyways, I don't think Dumbledore is romantically involved with any of his staff members.

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Jenny M. - Jan 11, 2004 5:51 pm (#396 of 2916)

I want to put in my two knuts on a few of the issues you've raised.

timrew: maybe McGonagall doesn't know about Dumbledore's lemon drop habit because HE'S the one who does their weekly shopping. Or maybe he had only just discovered them. And anyway, he wouldn't get lemon drops in Hogsmeade: he calls them "A Muggle sweet I've become rather fond of."

Also, maybe he calls her "Professor" in that scene because he feared being overheard, or because he needs to be in the habit of calling her that so as not to seem unprofessional in front of students (as Czarina suggested), or because they were already professors when they met and he calls her "professor" as an endearment or pet name. Or maybe it was an issue of "It's a dangerous night, there are dangerous forces afoot," and he didn't want to say her name aloud for some magical reason.

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timrew - Jan 11, 2004 6:45 pm (#397 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Jenny, I'm not saying either way if Dumbledore and McGonagall are an item or not. If you see my next post (after the one you're referring to), I'm now not sure....

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Chris. - Jan 11, 2004 10:31 pm (#398 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Albus and Minerva? hmmm...

I don't really see anything in it. Prof. McG was in distress at hearing that the rumours were true, that Lily and James were dead. It was only in absence of her strict and formal appearance and emotions that she called Dumbledore by Albus... They were alone so they are good friends, why call each other by their professional terms?

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Czarina - Jan 14, 2004 8:14 am (#399 of 2916)

Except for that scene in the beginning of PS, don't Dumbledore and McGonagall always call each other "Professor" or refer to each other by their last names? They were probably colleagues first and friends second. After all, McGonagall is about eighty years younger than Dumbledore. He could have been her Professor back when she was at Hogwarts (thus she would probably, under ordinary circumstances, not be comfortable calling him by his first name). Dumbledore would have called her "Miss McGonagall" and then, when she became a professor, "Professor McGonagall." They might not have been good friends until AFTER they were both teaching.

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Flame Alligator - Jan 14, 2004 9:11 am (#400 of 2916)

I have not checked this thread for a couple of days. I was half joking about Cho and Draco but then I thought why not? She would be blind to Draco's personality. Forgive him for all his faults and then completely control him without using any magic. All she has to do is smile or cry. She could rule Draco with sweetness and kindness. I think Draco is the one who would be in trouble. Plus, Draco is rich. Don't rich guys get the pretty girls? After reconsidering, yes, I like it Draco and Cho.

I will now brace myself for an onslaught from all you Cho lovers. Don't worry, I won't be offended, I can take it.

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'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) Empty Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 401 to 450)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:50 am

fidelio - Jan 14, 2004 12:27 pm (#401 of 2916)
Pansy Parkinson would choke and fall sideways--not that I see that as a drawback to your suggestion. I don't know, however, whether Draco would repsond to such manipulation--his mama has already convinced him that he is the most wonderful and special thing in the entire world, and he knows his family if rich and powerful--he might just regard female attention as his due. Cho'd have to be a very clever girl indeed to shape his thoughts and actions much--and I think she may be a little more accustomed to having guys make a fuss over her.

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Julia. - Jan 14, 2004 8:57 pm (#402 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Well, I just read every single post on this thread. I've decided that I'm firmly in the camp with those of you who are Harry/Ginny, Ron/Hermmione, Neville/Luna shipers. Anyway, I really liked the idea a few hundred posts ago about the writing the last few lines of book 7, so in my exictement, I did just that, and posted it on the FanFic forum. It's really long, but that was my first bit of FanFic, and I was really excited.

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Jan 16, 2004 7:08 pm (#403 of 2916)

OK I think that in some way the 6 kids that went to the department of mysteries will end up in couples: Harry/Luna, Ron/Hermione and Neville/Ginny. Is it really a coincidence that it was 3 girls and 3 boys? Ginny might have had a crush on Harry for a while, but I think she's moved on... even Hermione said it. She also went to the Yule ball with Neville, which could be foreshadowing her subconscious, as of yet undeveloped feelings for him. Harry and Luna are a good match in my opinion, it seems they ahve a lot in common, and she's not so overly reactive and annoying like Cho was.

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 16, 2004 7:34 pm (#404 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Might I rearange those pairings Jazhara, thanks. Ok this is what will happen: Harry/Hermione, Ron/Luna, Neville/Ginny, BOO YEAH BABY three boys three girls. This goes on everything I've said before and the fact that like Jazhara said there were three boys and three girls making a perfect three couples. It works perfectly this way, plus Jazhara, Luna does have a crush on Ron. This could fuel the flames of their love for eachother. *sorry I sound so cheesy but that was the only thing I could think of*

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Czarina - Jan 16, 2004 9:18 pm (#405 of 2916)

Edited by Hem Hem Jan 18, 2004 11:48 am
The whole "three boys and three girls" battling in the Dep. of Mysteries scenario is probably indeed an indicator of "who will end up with whom." These are the six students that are concentrated on at the end of OoP, as especially evidenced by the fact that they are all in the hospital wing and then on the train together. Well, if the six of them are going to end up in pairs, I suppose there really are four possibilities (I think):

Harry/Ginny; Ron/Luna; Neville/Hermione
Harry/Ginny; Ron/Luna; Neville/Hermione
Harry/Ginny; Ron/Hermione; Neville/Luna
Harry/Luna; Ron/Hermione; Neville/Ginny

Any of them are possible and there is probably good evidence to support any combination.

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Sly Girl - Jan 16, 2004 9:59 pm (#406 of 2916)

Luna has a crush on Ron? Now don't tell me OOTP was printed with missing pages, because mine sure seems to be missing the one where that's stated.

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 16, 2004 10:11 pm (#407 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Well other than reading between the lines and her obvious infatuation with Ron, other than that I have no idea where I got the idea that she likes him. This is probably the only ship like idea that Rowling made quite obvious, everything else is pretty muddied but this one aspect of the books is very clear. There are to many parts of the book for me to choose from for proof here and I can't remember where I put my OotP at the moment. But I remember an incident on the train ride to Hogwarts, before the carriage rides up to school, and before Ron's first quidditch match I think. There are many more Luna infatued with Ron moments but as I said I have no idea where my book is right now so if someone else could give specific examples to Sly then I would be much obliged.

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Sly Girl - Jan 16, 2004 10:16 pm (#408 of 2916)

Oh you mean all of those examples... you stated it with such authority, I just thought I'd missed something stated.

Truth is anyone can type 'proof' and anyone can type 'dispute'- still doesn't mean it's true. Either way. And the examples you mentioned, personally, to me, doesn't mean Luna likes Ron. She laughed at a joke. (been known to happen) She supported the Gryffindor's. (Ravenclaws do that against Slytherin) Perhaps JKR wanted someone to be in Ron's corner for a change. Doesn't mean she's crushing on him. But again, that's just to me.

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 16, 2004 10:27 pm (#409 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
I'm not getting into this, we both obviously see things very differently. I have nothing to gain by continually pointing out all my evidence while you point out all yours to me. Something that is blaringly obvious to one person might be not as obvious to someone else, or they might think that it doesn't mean anything at all. But in that case then I would have to say that all the fights between Ron and Hermione don't mean that they have feelings for eachother; and also that even though Ginny blushed every time she spoke to Harry she was never crushing on him. I mean friends fight, and I know that I've blushed even when not confronted with someone I like (it has been known to happen.)

If people so readily accepted the evidence of Ginny's crush on Harry then I don't see a difference here. I may be missing something but Luna is showing all the signs of a little girl crushing on boy.

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Chris. - Jan 17, 2004 4:06 am (#410 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I didn't think Luna had a crush on Ron. I thought it was because Ron is a normal guy and Luna is interested how someone can be 'down to earth' that much. I don't see every character in the book getting paired up with someone, but it woud be nice for the main characters who fight and hopefully win against LV have someone to go home to at night.

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Gryffindor Ghost - Jan 17, 2004 5:47 am (#411 of 2916)


Hello, everyone! I'm a rookie in this thread and I want to comment on the Ron/Luna issue. Well, I think that Luna indeed has a crush on Ron judging by the way she acts every time they were together. (As some of them are already stated in the previous posts, I dont think it's necessary to repeat them).

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Devika - Jan 17, 2004 9:53 am (#412 of 2916)

I always thought that Luna's behaviour was totally in sync with her character. If she does show some interest in Ron, I always pictured it as a mild sort of interest. Nothing very serious. She doesn't even know him well enough to be able to have real feelings. Plus I don't see a reason why Ron would like her or why she would like Ron... not that it needs a reason, but still...

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 17, 2004 10:28 am (#413 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Devika, the question wasn't if Ron liked Luna the question was if Luna liked Ron. It is definitely possible that Rowling put Luna in so Ron could finally have an admirer. But this is one character who is obviously infatuated with another, when she burst out laughing on the train you notice that it was Ron's joke that she was laughing at. This may be typical Luna behavior but from what we've seen she hasn't done that for any other character. She shows an obvious interest in Ron; the fact that she knows who he went to the ball with and hints that she wouldn't have minded going with him says a lot. For a character who we don't know much about this is a lot of information. I think that just from the train ride and trip up to the castle we can tell that she is enamored with Ron.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 17, 2004 3:56 pm (#414 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I didn't feel that Luna had a crush on Ron. I saw her overreaction to his joke and subsequent staring as being just Luna being Luna. I've known a few people like and they usually don't react in a "normal" way to most things. I think another example of this sort of behavior was her automatically taking up with the Griffindors, as if they were old friends, just because they talked to her. I image that there aren't too many people in her own house that take the time to chat with her on a daily basis.

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freshwater - Jan 17, 2004 9:06 pm (#415 of 2916)

Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
I agree, Brandon, that there are at least several statements in OotP that seem to indicate that Luna has more than a passing interest in Ron. Then again, her character is so quirky and unself-conscious that we may not be able to interpret her behavior exactly as we might interpret the behavior of someone more "mainstream" in their appearance, opinions and manners. I love the line: (may not be an exact quote) Luna was watching Ron as though he was a mildly interesting television program. :-) She could be developing a romantic interest in him, or she may simply be observing him as one would observe an interesting phenomenon.

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Hem Hem - Jan 18, 2004 12:56 pm (#416 of 2916)

It is pretty undisputable that Luna payed an awful lot of attention to Ron. She laughed pretty hard at his joke, she was constantly humming "Weasley is Our King," she wished him specifically good luck in the match, and the references go on and on.

But to me, it seems that Luna is absolutely oblivious to her own responses. She isn't aware of the fact that she's paying attention to Ron. I don't think she even likes him.

You see, Ron was one of the only people that treated Luna like a normal person (at least to her face). He talked to her on the train (really only because she happened to be sitting there), told a joke, and acted generally friendly...although he was making no effort at all to maximize his interaction with her. Luna didn't see that; she only saw that a guy in the grade above her was interacting with her and treating her absolutely normally. And although she may not have recognized her own responses, she appreciated that a little.

To me, this does not spell the beginnings of a relationship. It merely shows the nature of Luna's social interactions. Anybody who treats her nicely is viewed by Luna to be a good friend. And if she pays too much attention to them, she probably doesn't even realize she's doing it.

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 18, 2004 1:58 pm (#417 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Hem Hem, Luna was paying attention to Ron before she even met him. Remember what she said about how he didn't treat Padma that well at the Yule Ball but that she wouldn't have minded going with him because she didn't like to dance. She knew about him before she even met him.

Assuming that she is the Lovegood that lives in Ottery St Catchpole then she might have even seen him around her home before. The attention the pays to him might be deep seated from her childhood. She may well have had a crush on him for a long time. Again, this theory only works if she is the Lovegood who lives near Ron, but how common is that name anyways?

I don't think that Luna was paying attention to him because he showed even the most remote interest in her. Harry seemed just as kind if not even kinder to her than Ron did. Harry was also around her even longer than Ron and if she knew that Ron went with Padma to the ball then she probably even knew that Harry went with Padma's sister Parvati. She would then know that Harry didn't treat Parvati well either and they only did the opening dance. But she didn't say she wouldn't have minded going with Harry; no - she said she wouldn't have minded going with Ron.

I think that this all points to an affection towards Ron, notice my wording there. An affection towards Ron. Not once did I say that Ron might return her feelings. I'm not sure if a romance will bud from Luna's feeling for Ron; after all a relationship involves two people. I'm merely saying that Luna has feelings for Ron, not that those feelings are reciprocated.

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Czarina - Jan 18, 2004 7:28 pm (#418 of 2916)

It's been noted on the Luna thread how Rowling is comparing/contrasting Luna and Hermione. If this contrast is on purpose, it would therefore stand to reason that she is comparing their relationships with Ron as well. It would serve for some sideline tension between the six (Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Neville, Luna).

I don't think Ron has any interest in Luna, other than she is Ginny's friend and now one of the group. He might have known her a bit from childhood (as the slightly loony Lovegood girl, probably). She may have liked him since she was eight years old...who knows? But look at how Ron appears to view Luna and Hermione:

Hermione -- same age, same grade, superior intelligence, terrible at Quidditch, challenges him and quarrels with him constantly, shows an interest in him, is with his family as much as he is.

Luna -- a year younger, little sister's best friend, intelligent but wacky, ambivalent towards Quidditch (his favourite pastime), appreciates what he says without bickering (hardly any fun!), possible childhood crush who shows a friendly interest in him.
Well? (I know who I'd pick.)

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 18, 2004 8:18 pm (#419 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
I like all your points Czarina but I have a few questions; did Ron ever say that he thought Luna was intelligent? She most likely is because she's in Ravenclaw but did Ron ever express his views on this issue?

And what type of interest are we talking about? Hermione and Luna both show interest in Ron but in very different ways. What type of interest are you referring to? Luna shows romantic interest where it is highly disputable if Hermione shows romantic interest in Ron. Because you know constant arguing is soooo romantic...

For Hermione and Ron's sake I hope Ron chooses Luna. I mean I don't think Harry could stay sane with any more bickering between his two best friends.

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Fawkes Forever - Jan 19, 2004 5:16 am (#420 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
It just goes to show you, we can all read the same book & take completely separate meanings out of it. Thats whats so much fun about the forum

Personally, I thought it was obvious that Luna has a little crush on 'Ronald', but then again I have been wrong in the past! So I've read evidence for both camps & both are rather convincing arguements, but I'm going to go with my original thoughts!

To me, a lot of the tension between Hermione & Luna not only came from their different natures, but that Hermione has picked up on Luna's, 'I've a bit of a crush on Ron' vibes ... Although Hermione is not willing to admit her feelings yet, or indeed if she's even sure of her feelings, she still wouldn't want another girl stepping in whilst shes trying to make up her mind (or listen to her heart), she's keeping her options open

As I've said before though, Luna may be the catalyst between Ron & Hermione! Perhaps Ron might go out on a date with Luna at some stage ... hmmm, that would be fun! However, we'll have to wait & see. As for everyone pairing up... I'm still not convinced ... By the end of book 7, we may only have one pairing Ginny & Neville, or Luna & Neville, or perhaps none at all. As for the trio, I really don't know, but again I say ... I've been wrong before

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Kathryn Pottinger - Jan 19, 2004 7:53 am (#421 of 2916)

I think it would be just a bit too cliche for the six to all pair off (though if i had to guess it'd be Harry/Hermione, Neville/Ginny, Ron/Luna). I'd like to see Harry and Hermione get together as I think they make a brilliant team and really understand each other but apart from that I have no idea. I think that Harry and Ron, especially Ron, seem bizarrely uninterested in girls. Ginny going out with and having crushes on various people remind me much more of what everyone was like at my old school at that age. Harry and Ron don't even seem to talk to each other about crushes which seems a bit odd.

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Czarina - Jan 19, 2004 8:19 am (#422 of 2916)

"Harry and Ron don't even seem to talk to each other about crushes which seems a bit odd."

Not EVERY teenager talks about crushes. Boys also mature more slowly than girls (hence Ginny going out with several boys during OoP), which could explain their lack of interest. Harry has a lot more important things on his mind than which girl likes him. That's probably what he WISHES he could spend all day thinking about. Harry has Voldemort to contend with. Ron shows a lot of interest in Hermione, but the trio are such close friends that he's probably embarrassed about it. (So is she, presumeably.) Hermione doesn't really pay much serious attention to boys, either. She dated Krum (likely out of surprise and flattery) but seems to have a limited interest in him. I wouldn't be shocked if she eventually drops Krum out of her life entirely. She shows more interest in Ron -- but mostly, she pays attention to her books.

If the trio were high-schoolaged Muggles, Harry would be an athlete (who gets female attention because of it) who gets average grades; Ron would be one to be interested in sports and video-games, not to mention regular chess, and pay little attention to girls; and Hermione would be the girl everyone loved to pick on with glasses, braces, and books under her arm wherever she went.

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Czarina - Jan 23, 2004 12:25 pm (#423 of 2916)

"it would be a bit too cliche for the six to all pair off..."

I agree that it might be too cliche, but this IS a series for children, as well as adults. Children like cliches in their stories. So do many adults, if the cliches aren't too obvious or too impossible. In a small school like Hogwarts (even 1000 students would berelatively small when you divide by seven and consider that ALL of the wizarding kids in the country go there), it is quite possible for students to pair off -- eventually -- with their friends. It may be cliche, but it's definitely possible.

If Ron and Hermione got together, that would break the cliche of "hero always gets the girl," wouldn't it?

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Brandon Christopher - Jan 23, 2004 3:14 pm (#424 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
If Ron and Hermione got together, that would break the cliche of "hero always gets the girl," wouldn't it?

Actually I think the cliche is the hero always gets the girl "he wants." I think if Harry does indeed end up with a girl then it will be who he truly wants. If he isn't interested in Hermione then he wouldn't end with her as his girl. If he ends up with Ginny then didn't he get "the girl?" I think that if Harry lives through this series then he will most definitely end up with some girl; who that girl is we have no way of knowing. We can all hope and argue, (like I love to do) but it all really comes down to what Rowling feels like doing.

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Czarina - Jan 28, 2004 5:20 pm (#425 of 2916)

My theory as to who which Weasley will end up with whom: (in order)

Bill - Fleur (Rowling hinted at this and it would be nice to see Bill, who is nearly thirty, settled with someone by the end of the series; Fleur was introduced as a champion and I just can't see her being thrown away - she could do wonders for the Order)

Charlie - Tonks (a little far-fetched, esp. as I think they might be dead by the end of the series, but they are the same approximate age and they both work for the Order)

Percy - who cares? (if he has to be with somebody, Penelope Clearwater or someone similar would be fine)

Fred/George - Angelina/Katie (they could open a joke shop AND sell Quidditch supplies too! not to mention they could help out the Order and provide entertainment in the story)

Ron - Hermione (enough said)

Ginny - Harry (again, enough said)

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Mad Madame Mim - Jan 28, 2004 9:45 pm (#426 of 2916)

"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
I know what I'm going to say will get me stoned or even tared and feathered, but it could turn into something fun.

What if Hermione hooked (after graduation) with Lupin!

Just think about it. Ron and Hermione would be miserable together, heck they already argue like an old married couple. Bicker like that for a hundred years would be cruel and unusual punishment for both of them. And Harry won't be ready for a relationship with anyone until he sorts out things about himself, which could take years.

Yes, Lupin could be he father, at least 20 years her senior, but this is the Wizarding world and Dumbledore at least a 150. And McGonagall got a lot kick for her age. Plus Hermione didn't tell anyone when she found out Lupin was a werewolf. She is so clever at potions she could make his brew for him! They could have relaxing evenings of reading the latest of magical plants and write papers on new defense against dark arts spells. Wink

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S.E. Jones - Jan 28, 2004 10:55 pm (#427 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Um, I seriously doubt being clever, able to keep secrets, and able to make potions is a good basis for a relationship and that's really all that there is between Hermy and Lupin. There just isn't any canon references to infer this. You may be wandering into the world of fanfiction. If so, you may want to check out the fanfiction forum.

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Mare - Jan 29, 2004 7:31 am (#428 of 2916)

Well I don't see it happening either, but as far as canon reference goes, I didn't see any for the Draco/Cho combination and that one got discussed here.
This is the ship-ship thread, were people come with their ideas about the relationships in the books. And some theories are common and some are farfetched. I think the reason you referred Mad Madame Min to the fanfiction forum, Sarah, is because right now it seems an odd pairing because Hermione isn't considered an adult yet and Lupin is. Making them a pair now would be very inappropriate, but looking into the future it could be possible. (anything is possible)
This idea has nothing to do with fanfiction or the fanfiction forum, and if you look at it logically, this is the right place to discuss it.
Not that I think there is much to discuss... but that is a personal opinion.

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Mad Madame Mim - Jan 29, 2004 11:05 am (#429 of 2916)

"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
Mare, Thank You.

The pairing was meant to be funny; to make some groan, other's roll their eyes, and a few even laugh. After reading the the entire thread, it seemed that some of us were taking ourselves too seriously. Speculating and hypothesizing who gets who, when in most cases there is not enough canon to suggest any pairing but of H/Hr, Hr/R, and H/G. Any of these may not even occur in the next two books, but in epilogue only.

Hermione and Lupin serve the same role in there gangs. They are the voice of reason source of information. By looking at these shared character traits they could be suitable for one another at much later time. The word there is could. Will this happen? Who knows what JKR will do, but it is fun to speculate.

Most of the threads on this board are light "fanfiction;" speculations of motivations or meanings supported by canon. However they are still speculations, works of fiction until proven later by JKR herself.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 29, 2004 11:58 am (#430 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Thanks for that little nudge out of the grouchy mood I was in when I wrote that post, Mare. I need that occasionally and it's good to know I have friends who aren't afriad to give be a good kick when I need one.

And Mad Madam Mim, I quite agree with you, we do tend to take ourselves too seriously a bit too often, and thank you for trying to make us laugh at ourselves a little, that is an extremely important quality for someone to have. I will argue with you, however, about our speculations being fanfiction, light or othewise, because they do have canon support and are merely guesses, nothing more. I admit some really test the borders, and the patience, at times, though.

Let's get back on topic, though. This thread is for 'shipping...

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Jazhara Ravenclaw - Jan 29, 2004 9:03 pm (#431 of 2916)

It's kind of refreshing to not talk about H/R vs H/H for a while...

I always thought Lupin and Tonks would be a good match. It seems they spend time together, as they're entering rooms together/at the smae time alot, etc. Even though Tonks is a bit younger, I think Lupin needs a bit of young heartedness around after what eh's been trhough, losing James and Sirius.

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S.E. Jones - Jan 29, 2004 10:05 pm (#432 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I know Lupin is patient and all, but I think Tonks would start to wear on his nerves after a while. I'm still hoping for another new female character, one who would be a bit better fit for him. I absolutely agree that they'd have to be a bit lively but I think they need to be a bit more mature than Tonks (not to say she isn't mature), enough so to know when she needs to back off. Also, I think the fact that he automactically called her Nymphadora when she hates the name and prefers to be called just Tonks points to him being a friend of her parents and not so much hers. I'd love to hear other's thoughts, though....

You know, I suggested that Tonks's family might have a connection with the Weasleys based on the time of her graduation and Bill's comment about being in Hogwarts in GoF and someone (Czarina maybe?) suggested a 'ship between Tonks and Charlie. I think their personalities would blend very well, they're both outgoing, friendly, caring, brave, talented, prone to dangerous professions, etc.

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Jenny M. - Jan 29, 2004 11:18 pm (#433 of 2916)

I'm with you: I'm not so sure I see Lupin pairing off with Tonks or Hermione. I would like to see him be cured of his lycanthropy, but I think he's had too much pain in his life to be involved with anyone who wouldn't understand it ~ I mean, of his three best friends, two are now dead (one of them after a suspicion-laden 12-year estrangement) and one has betrayed them all. All this and a werewolf too...ai yi yi!

I think Luna could be a very healing influence on Lupin, as she has been on Harry. Not necessarily a romance, just as a friend.

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Mare - Jan 30, 2004 1:53 am (#434 of 2916)

As for Lupin, he definately could need a enthousiast clumsy character like Tonks, but just not Tonks. He needs some-one who will be able to lighten him up, but also some-one who understands at least a bit what he had to go through. Tonks is an auror, sure, but she is just so fresh, she has no idea what it is like to fight in a war and see the people you love dying. (unmature was a nice word for it) As long as she doesn't know that, I see no relationship between them (as much as I would love for Lupin to have some-one, poor guy.)
So... what about Hestia Jones?

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Essidji - Jan 30, 2004 2:21 am (#435 of 2916)

Marè wrote: "Tonks is an auror, sure, but she is just so fresh, she has no idea what it is like to fight in a war and see the people you love dying. (unmature was a nice word for it)" What do you know about her past?

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Mare - Jan 30, 2004 5:32 am (#436 of 2916)

You are absolutely right off course, Essidji. I know not much, but that is the way she comes out of the book to me. For an auror I find her (personal opinion) a bit carefree. (okay not everybody has to be a Moody, but still.)
I do conclude that she comes from a loving family. Her parents married out of love, the "darker" persons of her family didn't affect her (that much). Her mother folded and took care of her socks in a way like Molly does to her children.
Also she wasn't in the original order because she was to young, meaning that, even though a child will certainly understand that things are wrong, she probably didn't grasp the total terror of was going on. (Assuming here also that the parents tried to shelter her a bit from it)
I'm sure she realises the seriousness of everything, I'm not sure wether she can understand it fully emotionally.
But she got injured seriously, so maybe that will affect her in some way.

Right now, i don't think she would match with Lupin well.

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SarcasticGinny - Jan 30, 2004 10:37 am (#437 of 2916)

I hope Lupin will live to love again...but I have a feeling that if he does survive the war, he will be the wise bachelor type like Dumbledore. He will probably remain close to Harry and possibly step into that mentor/father figure position nicely, but with all the tragedies and concerns listed by Jenny M., I don't think that women are very high on the priority list for Remus J.

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Doris Crockford - Feb 2, 2004 2:23 pm (#438 of 2916)

SE Jones (post 432)- Lupin was introducing everyone else using both their first and last names. So I thought that it was natural that he would introduce her to Harry as Nymphadora, and Tonks just really, really hated her first name.

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Gryffindor Ghost - Feb 9, 2004 8:00 pm (#439 of 2916)


Hello! I'm new in this thread but let me declare my opinion that Harry will end up with Hermione (no offense meant to R/Hr shippers but I'll sail with M/V Harry&Hermione). I just read Penny's essay on the Lexicon and it really summed up my reasons for my belief that Harry and Hermione will spend the rest of their magical lives together.

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Luanee - Feb 9, 2004 11:11 pm (#440 of 2916)

What about Susan Bones? I think she and Harry make a good match given her aunt was kind to Harry in MoM. And she appeared right from Book 1 right?

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Devika - Feb 10, 2004 2:45 am (#441 of 2916)

Lunaee, that's an interesting idea, but somehow I can't see JKR pairing Harry with someone who hasn't spoken a word till her 5th year! It will be too wierd! Plus I can never see Harry happy with someone whom he (or we!) doesn't know realllly well and is comfortable with. Susan is a complete stranger. Of course we still have 2 books to go and 2 years should be enough. After all even James and Lily didn't like each other till their 5th year. Never say never with JKR! (But I'll still say never for this one!)
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Czarina - Feb 10, 2004 12:51 pm (#442 of 2916)

I think the fact that Harry and Hermione are best friends has clouded the minds of readers. All the evidence that anyone uses to point out a possible relationship between the two can be ascribed to the fact that they are best friends. When I read the books, I see two only children (as far as we know, Harry and Hermione have no siblings -- unlike Ron, who has enough for all of them) who have taken on a brother-sister relationship. Close, but platonic. Harry doesn't think twice about running off in the middle of his date with Cho to meet with Hermione. If he saw her as a potential love interest, he probably would have avoided meeting her while dating someone else because it would be too awkward. He doesn't think twice about it, however, because Hermione is like a sister to him. If Ron was on a date and Ginny wanted to meet him, he wouldn't think much of interrupting his date to see her (especially in the middle of the day). His date might be annoyed, but she wouldn't mind so much BECAUSE Ginny is Ron's sister. Harry and Hermione subconsciously see each other as sibling-like, but others don't. Cho was jealous of Hermione; she wouldn't have been jealous if Hermione was really Harry's sister.

So Harry and Hermione have a brother-sister relationship. They are best friends, not lovers. To analyse the relationship between Hermione and Ron, however, I'd say that they see themselves as either already boyfriend/girlfriend or certainly potentially so. Ron gave Hermione perfume for Christmas. Harry gave her a book (I think). That, I think, was an important clue from Rowling as to the nature of their relationships.

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S.E. Jones - Feb 10, 2004 4:24 pm (#443 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Very well put, Czarina! I'd like to add something I saw mentioned elsewhere, each boys' reaction to being kissed on the cheek by Hermione. It's been pointed out why Hermione may have kissed each, Harry nearly being killed in GoF and Ron being worried over a Quidditch match in OotP, but I think the boys' responses are far more telling. Harry is surprised. We know this by the line she did something she had never done before, and kissed him on the cheek. Other than this line we have no insight to how Harry, the character through which we experience the series, feels about the kiss, he simply goes on with saying goodbye to his other friends and doesn't mention it twice, it doesn't phase him. Ron, on the other hand, seems very distracted by the action. (OotP, ch19, pg404, US) Ron seemed to come to himself slightly as they walked back across the Great Hall. He touched the spot on his face where Hermione had kissed him, looking puzzled, as though he was not quite sure what had just happened. He seemed too distracted to notice much around him.... Ron seems to dwell on the kiss far longer.....

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Devika - Feb 11, 2004 3:06 am (#444 of 2916)

Czarina, that was very well put. It is exactly what I thought after I read the article on the Lexicon and whatever other H/H shippers had to say, but you've put it perfectly. SE, your point is interesting. I had also noticed it when I read it. Harry's surprise is at a friend's unusual behaviour. Ron's surprise is like when someone you have a crush on kisses you. I know I've put that so crudely, but that's what it sounded to me!

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Sly Girl - Feb 15, 2004 8:18 pm (#445 of 2916)

Ok this may be an odd post, but what the heck. I wasn't sure where to put it and since everyone loves to pooh-pooh the 'shipping' aspect of Hp, I thought I'd put it here. Bear with me.

Now, we know that LOVE is an important quality. We know that LOVE is what saved Harry as a baby. In fact, you could argue that it in some form or another, has saved him in every book. JKR has been building the theme up in each of the books and Harry has experienced many different kinds of loves. Friendship, charity, etc. So I wonder why it is that shipping gets a bad rap? I mean, I'm fairly cognisant of the fact that these books 'are not about that'. I mean, how many times have we heard that? What I'd like to say is that these book aren't not about that either. (hows that for a double negative?)

Is it because people so opionated about who should end up with whom?

Love is important to Harry surviving Voldemort. I believe that with every bone in my body. And while I know she's not writing the great romance novel of the decade here, she's also not leaving it out either. Otherwise why have Harry even notice girls? To make it more realistic sure, but why waste pages dedicated to Cho Chang if she was just going to break them up at the end anyway?

Some have argued that Harry will not find true love because it's unrealistic. Well, is it me or are these books found in the fiction section or not? Is it me or are these books an epic tale about good versus evil? Surely there is room for Harry to have love within that arena.

I make no apologies of the fact that I believe Harry will eventually end up with Ginny. I believe JKR is carefully weaving her tale that Ginny and Harry both will have something to do with the downfall of Voldemort. As well as Ron and Hermione, Neville and Luna (Dept of Mysteries anyone?) JKR has shown us through her use of Cho and Micheal (ex's both) that romantically speaking, Ginny and Harry are on more equal footing then they ever were in the past. And while I do not expect Harry to just wake up in book 6 deeply smitten with Ginny, I do believe he will come to see that she is a valuable asset and good friend to have on his side. From there, who can say what will happen next?

So I guess the point of this is, why does shipping get such a bad rap?

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Denise P. - Feb 15, 2004 8:29 pm (#446 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
So I guess the point of this is, why does shipping get such a bad rap?

Well, I am not an anti-shipper but I am also not a card carrying member of the 'ship cruise line.

For me, I am much more interested in the "main" story of Harry and his struggles and the whole Lord Thingy deal than I am in the tribulations of teenaged love and angst. I don't care if he notices girls, I don't care if he dates girls, I just don't want the main focus of the books to be on that aspect of him though.

I don't care if he ends up with Ginny, Luna or whoever because to me, that is all secondary to everything else. I do think Ron and Hermione will hook up but again, that is secondary to everything else with them. I spend much more time looking at other things and speculating on different aspects than wondering if Harry is going to have a superficial crush on a girl or if he wonders about kissing her out behind Hagrid's hut. It is a normal part of growing up and if JKR showed NO parts of it, it would stand out as a lack in her stories.

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Sly Girl - Feb 15, 2004 10:45 pm (#447 of 2916)

But what about the aspect of Love that I mentioned? What if Love does play a major part of the next two books? I'm not talking about teenage angst or stealing kisses behind the hut... I'm not talking about honest to goodness die for you love. JKR is the type of writer that can pull that off- I have faith that she won't resort to cliches about it. If Love can save Harry, then why not care about it?

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Denise P. - Feb 16, 2004 7:05 am (#448 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
If Wuv, Twu Wuv...wait, wrong movie here... Okay, if Love can save Harry, that is fine. I don't see 'shipping as Love. I only know one couple who met when they were teens that are still together 30 years later. The case of Love starting at Harry's age is rare and while I think that JKR can pull it off, I would be disappointed to see her slide into the commonplace after all that she has done so far. Cliches, yuck!

I think the Love you refer to is very different from 'ship love. 'Ship love for the most part, are crushes that perhaps could evolve into love but I doubt it.

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Devika - Feb 16, 2004 8:23 am (#449 of 2916)

Denise you've echoes my sentiments. While love is an important theme, I think it would be trivialising this deep feeling to equate it with schoolboy crushes. 'Ships wouldn't fall into this category.

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Karla Labanda - Feb 16, 2004 11:21 am (#450 of 2916)

I was reading this forum, and I read very interesting theories.

I believe in a relation between Luna and Harry, because after Sirius's death, Harry talked to Luna about that, instead of his friends. At that moment he felt a different feeling to her. (Perhaps I do not understand well that part in the book). Luna is a weird character, but I believe Ms. Rowling is going to be more deeply about her (I hope this part was clear) and per harps she could became an important person in Harry's life.

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'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) Empty Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 451 to 500)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:51 am

Loopy Lupin - Feb 19, 2004 7:37 pm (#451 of 2916)
I'm not that big of a "shipper" myself, buuuttt...I agree with the Harry-Luna connection....sure, she, Luna, has an obvious crush on Ron, but Harry makes the real connection with her....Hermy and Ron are just so dead obvious to me....remember the whole Yule Ball debacle and she and Ron's argument afterwards

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firebird - Feb 20, 2004 11:15 am (#452 of 2916)

NV4M: 'It is a normal part of growing up and if JKR showed NO parts of it, it would stand out as a lack in her stories.'

I'm sure JKR wouldn't make 'shipping the most impt part of the HP books, but I think she would devote more space than that for romance and sexuality... Harry will be sixteen next year. And when you are a teenager, this is QUITE a big deal... And if she didn't deal with it much in the sixth book, I'd find that very surprising.

I agree with Sly Girl, it will be shown in a more serious way, not just with cliches... Something like 'Love' and not just a 'Crush'. Cho was the crush. I think it'll definitely be someone else. I'd like it to be Luna - I think she's interesting (Remember the stupid roaring lion hat? I liked the scene where it motivated Harry)... but what do you think of Susan Bones? She's bound to be significant somehow; she's been mentioned too many times in OoP not to be. And I think Ron and Hermy are obvious... I hope it's not just a red herring!!! How disappointing that would be!!

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Denise P. - Feb 20, 2004 11:20 am (#453 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
And if she didn't deal with it much in the sixth book, I'd find that very surprising.

Right Firebird, that is what I meant. If JKR showed no interest on Harry's part for girls, no 'shipping or potential 'ships, that would be WEIRD since it is normal. As a 16 year old, back in the dark ages, it was very important to my peers and to me.

Now, as a not 16 year old, I don't want to read in depth about teenaged angst but on the same hand, it doesn't need to be a total ban on it either.

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firebird - Feb 20, 2004 11:29 am (#454 of 2916)

Of course NoVeil, neither do I... As an 18 yr old =D ...

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Denise P. - Feb 20, 2004 11:35 am (#455 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Well, I saw 16 and 18 a long, long time ago.... in a galaxy far, far away....heh

I actually do read about teenaged angst in other books, I just don't want to read it in HP.

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Marie E. - Feb 21, 2004 2:42 pm (#456 of 2916)

But you're right, it would be odd if we didn't hear anything about it.

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Czarina - Feb 25, 2004 8:44 am (#457 of 2916)

I think Harry should end up with Ginny; he would become a part of a large, happy family and he has lacked that growing up. It would be justifying.

I reread the scene where Ron calls Hermione a "scarlet woman" and (okay, I don't know if this has been talked about before) I put aside my laughter to consider why in the world he would use such a word. That may indeed be what his mother calls them, but I'm sure he knows words more appropriate to his age level. The reason he didn't call Hermione any of them, however, is because of his obvious crush on her. (Hence Harry and Hermione's laughter -- they recognize this.) Ron doesn't want to insult Hermione, after all, and that's why he hesitates for a second before calling her a scarlet woman. That was not what he was going to say originally. Harry laughs because HE wouldn't have hesitated to use another expression. He knows that Hermione wouldn't take it the wrong way because they are best friends.

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sarah lou - Mar 1, 2004 6:49 am (#458 of 2916)

Czarina - "his obvious crush on her" - this is something that I've wondered about. Ron's crush IS obvious, at least to the reader. But is it obvious to Hermione?

She can be so intuitive when it comes to other people's feelings, such as in OoP when she explains to Harry why Cho was upset at him meeting Hermione, or in GoF when she points out to Harry that Ron is probably jealous of him. This makes me think that she must have realised Ron likes her, and I wonder if she is just tactfully avoiding the issue because she doesn't feel the same way. Just a thought... I'm not really too sure what I think about any 'ships, although I will just say that I can't see Luna with anyone.

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Czarina - Mar 1, 2004 8:20 am (#459 of 2916)

Good points, sarah lou. Two ideas:

A) Hermione HASN'T caught on to the fact that Ron likes her. Yes, she is really intuitive, but people have an amazing ability to fail to notice people who like THEM, no matter how "intuitive" they are.

B) She is in denial of the fact that Ron likes her. She wants to remain best friends with both him and Harry. Not necessarily because she doesn't have a crush on him either, but because it would be awkward or (even more simply) a change. Ron is just Ron, not exotic like Viktor Krum. Though I don't think she is that involved with Krum, either. She didn't visit him in Bulgaria, she hasn't seen him since the end of GoF, as she spent the holidays with the Weasleys. They only write.

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Fawkes Forever - Mar 1, 2004 8:56 am (#460 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hmmm, the 'ol... what is Hermione feeling question. Short answer, we don't really know! I've bemused over this a bit... & came to a number of conclusions.... all guess work I'm afraid! I posted my thoughts in post 322 of this thread, so as I don’t repeat myself you can have a look at what I wrote there, if you like. Basically, my thoughts are that, I do think that Hermione is aware of Rons feelings (either consciously or subconsciously, of which I'm not sure), and I don’t think Hermione quite knows what to do ....yet!

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Rod Beecham - Mar 1, 2004 4:31 pm (#461 of 2916)

Hi all. I read the first hundred or so posts in this thread before being unable to contain myself! Please forgive me if this has been floated previously.

I think we need to discriminate between relationships that we think will occur (prediction), relationships that we think are psychologically plausible (extrapolation) and relationships that we'd like to see (indulgence).

I'm not interested in prediction - JKR will write what JKR will write - so I'll move immediately to extrapolation.

Hermione is VERY interesting: intelligent, courageous, loyal, highly-principled, but in some respects obtuse (I'm thinking of her obliviousness to the nuances of the house-elf question). She's very sensitive to peoples' feelings, perceptive, but, as others have pointed out, a little blind when it comes to herself. I put this down to a self-esteem problem. She's bursting with love and the need to be loved, but she doesn't place much value on herself (often the fate of the intelligent woman). The beginnings of her friendship with Harry and Ron say everything about this: she was desperately miserable when she overheard Ron telling Harry how awful she was, because she didn't mean to be awful: she just didn't know (then) how to express friendship without sounding patronising (she helped Ron in class because she liked him, not because she wanted to put him down).

She's maturing quickly, but I think she will still tend to be uncritically grateful to anyone who shows a liking for her. In other words, she's a prime candidate for "Mr Wrong". Who that might be, though, I do not know. (Though at this stage of their emotional development, both Harry and Ron would suit the part of Mr Wrong admirably.)

That's extrapolation. The person I'd like to see Hermione end up with (indulgence) is Fred Weasley. They have enough in common - high intelligence, loyalty to their friends, contempt for Dark Magic, humour (Hermione's is there: she just doesn't feel comfortable about letting it show too often) - and enough that is complementary - lawful observance versus rule-breaking, study and steady advancement versus entrepreneurship - to keep things interesting. It won't happen, but I think they'd make a great couple.

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Mad Madame Mim - Mar 1, 2004 6:48 pm (#462 of 2916)

"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
Rod,

That's one of the most well thought out post I've seen on this thread in a long time! Score ten points for you.

The Mad Madame

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Rod Beecham - Mar 1, 2004 8:16 pm (#463 of 2916)

Thank you, Mad Madame.

One other thing: I notice Cho Chang has been sharply criticised on this thread. Unfair, I think. We see her relationship with Harry from Harry's point of view, and, while we sympathise with Harry, he handles it very badly (which he would, of course, being fifteen and with the life he's had and is having).

Cho would have been his partner in GoF if he hadn't taken an eternity to screw up the nerve to ask her. He failed her completely after Cedric's death: the fiasco at Hogsmeade was due to his total incapacity to understand what she was feeling. She can hardly be blamed for going out with someone else - and she was clearly upset by Harry's behaviour.

Harry's failure with Marietta is very interesting. He spotted her discomfort with DA and all its works at the first meeting, but he said nothing. He knew, instinctively, that Marietta had only come because her friend Cho had asked her. But he did not challenge her, and this was a failure of leadership as well as an emotional failure (he didn't want to upset Cho, obviously). Again, I'm not trying to chastise Harry - the boy has, as Dumbledore knows, far too many burdens - but Marietta's betrayal of DA was more his fault than Cho's - and Cho has the disarming excuse of loyalty to her friend.

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alexa - Mar 1, 2004 9:51 pm (#464 of 2916)

True Rod, are you a psychologist by the way? Your perception on relationships is unique and interesting. I remembered it was Cho who always take the initiative to speak to Harry after their arguments. I will say that their timing just isn't right to start a relationship. If Harry and Cho has started earlier in GoF, the outcome may be completely different. At least there will have been trust between them, not so much jealousy and arguments.

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Rod Beecham - Mar 1, 2004 10:41 pm (#465 of 2916)

I'm not a psychologist, Alexa - just very opinionated!

I can't decide whether a romantic involvement would be good for Harry at this stage or not. On the one hand, he's terribly alone, notwithstanding the love and loyalty of Ron and Hermione. On the other, he's a volcano of anger and unexplored feelings, which means he'd be more like a patient than a partner for anyone reckless or self-sacrificing enough to get involved with him.

There's a fine irony, here: Hermione is very good for Harry because she understands him as well as anyone and has the courage to oppose him when she thinks he's wrong, but I think she'd be much less effective - and therefore less good for him - were they involved romantically, because she would start to defer to him and act against her better judgement.

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Devika - Mar 2, 2004 10:26 am (#466 of 2916)

Rod, you've made some excellent points here. I think you have given a very accurate description of Hermione. I'm not so sure about the Fred thing, since Hermione might not be the kind of person to be able to accept someone with the light-hearted kind of approach that Fred has. Agreed he has loyalty, intelligence, a sense of humour etc, but I don't see much scope of his being with Hermione. Of course Hermione is such a character that it's pretty difficult to find her a match! Right now it seems she is inclined towards Ron, and frankly, I see nothing too wrong with it, at least when they are 16 years old and not 26.

About Cho, Rod that was very perceptive. I admit I've hated Cho's character. Even before OoP, she sounded somewhat shallow to me. But it's true that it's from Harry's perspective that we see her. While she may not be suitable for Harry - not the same wavelength - you are right, she did try, more than him at least. Her way of approaching a relationship and her expectations from it seems to be different from Harry's. Though, I'm not sure if it was Harry's failing with Cho about Cedric. The death of a former boyfriend in the presence of your present partner isn't the best topic to broach on a first date. I'm sure Harry was caught unawares. Infact, in this case it seemed that Cho simply wanted to know Harry's POV about Cedric's death. I also get a feeling that she is a bit fascinated by his celebrity aura. Why else would she notice this not so smart junior from another house, who just plays Quidditch?

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Madame Librarian - Mar 2, 2004 12:47 pm (#467 of 2916)

Please forgive me if I don't quite have my "facts" right here (books not nearby), but I have a vague memory of Cho and Harry sort of making across-the-room eyes at each other well before Cedric was in the picture. In fact didn't Harry keep trying to get up enough nerve to ask her to the ball? And, didn't she seem like she hoped he would? It was only because he procrastinated that she accepted another offer.

Anyway, from then on Cho assumed that Harry really wasn't interested in her and settled on Cedric as her boyfriend, and Harry likewise assumed Cho hadn't been giving him the eye after all. So, when Cedric is killed, and Harry finally makes a move, Cho is in this terribly sad and awkward position: she originally liked Harry, but then is with Cedric; Cedrics dies a violent death (with Harry being deeply involved), and now she's back to being able to "like" Harry. Gawd, I'd be so conflicted if I was a teenage girl in her position. It wouldn't take much to set me off being a hosepipe. She likes Harry, but feels so much guilt. Approach-avoidance most classically demonstrated.

This is not the usual stuff 15/16-year olds have to handle with their relationships, so I'm inclined to give them both a break.

Ciao. Barb

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Rod Beecham - Mar 3, 2004 2:21 am (#468 of 2916)

I'm with you, Barb - and Devika, thank you for the kind words.

I think it's important to understand that Cho would, quite reasonably, not be looking at the Hogsmeade trip as a normal "first date". She and Harry have history, and although WE know that Harry is very interested in her, he's hardly been sending her unequivocal signals (he nearly misses completely the fact that she wants him to ask her to Hogsmeade, remember?). And now there's the whole horrible mess with Cedric, which she would feel bonds them (she went out with him, but only because Harry was too slow, and Harry was with Cedric when he died). Of course she would want to talk about it, and I don't think it was unreasonable of her to expect Harry to want to talk about it as well.

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Chris. - Mar 4, 2004 11:08 am (#469 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
kylie: Thanks for writing such wonderful books, Ms Rowling Smile. Just one question: What are Ron, Hermione and Ginny's middle names? Thank you Smile

JK Rowling replies -> My pleasure:) Middle names: Ginny is Molly, of course, Hermione 'Jane' and Ron, poor boy, is Bilius.

Live Chat, 4th March 2004

Will Ginny be the next Molly Weasley. Will she be Harry's wife with the twelve children?

I know the middle names are just names but there is always a meaning. Though, it could just be because Molly is her mother.

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Denise P. - Mar 4, 2004 11:19 am (#470 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I see JKR put to rest the speculation of a Hermione-Draco 'ship...

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Czarina - Mar 4, 2004 11:34 am (#471 of 2916)

Thank goodness! Really, Hermione and Draco just wouldn't work. Besides, we would all end up feeling sorry for Ron.

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Weeny Owl - Mar 4, 2004 3:33 pm (#472 of 2916)

I was SO glad to read that. Hermione has much better taste than to become romantically attached to that horrid little son of a Death Eater.

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Griffin - Mar 4, 2004 5:02 pm (#473 of 2916)

So, following the new information from the online chat;

Harry and Cho are finished for good (I mean as a possible future romance).

eastbrook4: why did Harry have to split up with Cho Chang?

JK Rowling replies -> That's life, I'm afraid. They were never going to be happy, it was better that it ended early!

(Never is Never!)

The current books include enough clues as to who Harry’s next relationship will be.

hermione 3: ¿will Harry and Hermione will be together?*sight*

JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

Doesn’t this mean that it has to be either Ginny or Hermione?

My money is still on Hermione.

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Chris. - Mar 4, 2004 5:12 pm (#474 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I'm going to go with Ginny... their little heart-to-heart in OP was as if he could talk more freely to her than Ron and Hermione.

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Julia. - Mar 4, 2004 5:29 pm (#475 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Kingsley, I too am goining with Ginny. I have no idea if this means anything at all, but, of the characters whos middle names we know about Harry and Ginny are the only ones whos middle names were given for a parent, Harry James and Ginny Molly. I have no idea if this means anything at all, but it is yet another leval on which Harry and Ginny are connected.

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Griffin - Mar 5, 2004 1:26 pm (#476 of 2916)

Before anyone picks up on the fact that I didn’t include Luna in the list, I think that the tone of JKR’s response indicated that there were more clues than just the handful given about Luna in the last book!

“by now” ??????

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Tsuta - Mar 6, 2004 1:12 am (#477 of 2916)

Edited by Denise P. Mar 6, 2004 11:05 am
Hi, it's the first time I post here and I'm afraid I'll be hated right away but here it comes XD

I didn't read ALL the messages in this thread, but I did read a great deal of them, before I finally got tired of it (well, it late and I'm sleepy), and some comments just irked me.

The comment that irked me the most is 'this is not the appropriate place to discuss the character's sexuality' okay, what are we doing here, if it's not discussing their sexuality?

This is not an appropriate place to discuss a character's sexuality means just that. It WILL NOT be discussed here. End of story. Any comments related to it will be deleted from the discussion. Please make sure you read the Philosophy of the Forum again if you have any questions on why it is not appropriate. I can be reached at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] if you have any questions NoVeil4Me...Lexicon Forum Host

I'd like to see Remus/Tonks tho, they'd make a nice couple.

And I like the relationship between Hermione and Viktor, I think it's very good for Hermy to have him for pen-pal. And well, I like him, he was a cool character, I hope we'll see more of him. I would prefer seeing Hermione with Krum and Ron with Luna or whoever and Harry with Luna or maybe Ginny than seeing that group of friends shred to bit because of a teenager luv story. But I do think Ron and Hermione have this crush on each other that they won't admit.

(I'm sorry for that long and kinda stupid message, I know I'm not very good at writting speculations and dissecting the books smartly and all that like you all seem to do, but I say what I think)

one post that followed this was deleted since it dealth with an edited out portion. Jenny M, your comments were insightful but not appropriate on this Forum. D~

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firebird - Mar 6, 2004 4:44 am (#478 of 2916)

Tsuta, "I know I'm not very good at writting speculations and dissecting the books smartly and all that like you all seem to do"

Don't worry, you just need some practice! Smile

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Denise P. - Mar 6, 2004 9:27 pm (#479 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Let me make this perfectly clear since apparently some folks don't understand. On this Forum it is not appropriate to discuss same sex pairing in any way, shape or form. Not at all. Nada. Zip. Zero.

If this thread does not get off this subject, I will lock it to further postings and those who continue the discussion will be placed on moderated status.

There is a discussion of WHY this is not appropriate over on the FanFiction Forum. You can read a post by Lexicon Steve, the owner of this Forum. His word is law folks, abide by it or find another place to discuss it.

Lexicon Steve - Mar 1, 2003 7:25 pm
The official word is that there is no sexual material allowed on any Lexicon-related forum at all. This is my personal position--it is completely inappropriate for characters and settings from a children's book to be portrayed in sexual situations. It is also the official position of World Crossings: we know that children use our forums, therefore we are bound by the Children's Online Privacy Act and any laws which forbid access of inappropriate material to children.

If anyone has a problem with these restrictions, they may gladly remove themselves from the forums. But this position is not open to debate and will not be modified.

Even a discussion of sexual material in the context of the Harry Potter books runs the risk of violating the rules.

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Jo S - Mar 6, 2004 11:56 pm (#480 of 2916)

My money is definitely on Ron and Hermione. The clues which JKR refer to are obviously the fighting over Victor Krum. I also think that Rons Christmas gift to Hermione is important. You dont give perfume to your little sister or someone you see as a good mate, you give perfume to a girl you like/love!

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Devika - Mar 7, 2004 3:50 am (#481 of 2916)

After reading the chat transcript, there is at least one thing I'm sure of - this thread is not redundant. I had been having feelings that there is no point in this thread since romance is not going to be much of a part in the Harry Potter books. But now after JKR's statement, 'what's life without a little romance' I'm happy:-)

As for a Harry Hermione 'ship, I think it is very unlikely. Many have taken JKR's cryptic statement to mean that they'll get together, but I think her 'LOL' was more like laughter at finding a concept ridiculously funny than her usual, 'well spotted'. And about the hints, I think it's pretty certain that it's Ron and not Harry. I think this way mainly because I don't see JKR giving hints even more subtle than those she's given for R/H and then saying that H/H was bound to happen. Plus, if we end up with a triangle of sorts, it would totally spoil the mood of the books. Fights between friends is one thing, but having Ron and Harry like the same girl who happens to be the third member of your gang, would be totally out of place.

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Chris. - Mar 7, 2004 7:08 am (#482 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think Harry has strong emotions for Hermione. People say when Harry jumped out to save Hermione from Grawp, he was showing his love but I think this was because she is a close friend. From what I read in the Yule Ball chapter from GoF, Harry realises that Hermione has a crush on Ron, and she would have liked it if he asked her.

I'm still going for Harry with Ginny or he stays single.

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Julia. - Mar 7, 2004 3:15 pm (#483 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
I think Harry and Hermione will remain great friends, and just that. They know each other extreemly well, and they do make a great team, but the romantic feeling just isn't there. It's pretty obviously there with Ron and Hermione, and although it's not there yet for Harry and Ginny, I can see it developing. Thus, once again I state, Harry/Ginny, Ron/Hermione.

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Mrs. Sirius - Mar 7, 2004 11:27 pm (#484 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
hermione 3: ¿will Harry and Hermione will be together?*sight*

JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

Thank you JK. She has given clues. I take that to mean Ginny, not Hermione. About Ron she said that his middle name is Bilious, the same as that dead uncle who died after seeing the Grim. If she is indeed planning to kill off Ron, Harry's best friend and closest thing to a family member, Ginny will still tie him to that family. Hermione will still be a very good friend and if she gets together with Ron, still in the family.

I'm not saying that the books are planned entirely around kiddie romances. But Harry's biggest asset is his capacity to love. And I think it has to be an important sub-plot.

JKR is a wonderful and skillful writer. She gave Harry a normal and very realistic teenage romance with Cho without being tawdry. There was no kissing behind the sheds or anything that could said to be lewd yet it was still realistic.

I think the relationship that she shows us in book 6 or 7 or indicates to us for the future, will be of a deep trust, understanding, of two independent and interdependent people. From all indications that will be Ginny, IMHO.

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Chris. - Mar 8, 2004 5:35 am (#485 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Harry needs more than Mrs Weasley's word that he's part of the family. Dating Ginny or even getting married when he's old enough could secure the bond between Harry and the Weasleys.

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Just snooping - Mar 8, 2004 12:26 pm (#486 of 2916)

I agree that Ron + Hermione seems unlikely. Other than the GoF thing, she really shows nothing but contempt for Ron. She constantly interrupts him, snaps sarcastically at his observations, and even tells him to "shut up" when he's voicing a (very valid) concern.

Maybe Hermione + Dobby

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Mrs. Sirius - Mar 8, 2004 12:35 pm (#487 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I can't believe I didn't catch this until now. On CoS, the movie, in the Flourish and Blotts scene when Harry and the Weasley's encounter Malfoy, Ginny comes to Harry's defense. Malfoy retorts

"Potter, you've got yourself a girlfriend!. CoS pg 61 (Sch)

I checked my book and sure enough those are Malfoys words in canon. Although it is Malfoy saying it, it is a pretty big hint.

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Just snooping - Mar 8, 2004 12:39 pm (#488 of 2916)

I agree that Hermione and Fred would be good together. Also, I've noticed in the books that Fred communicates with her in small moments, for small details, but enough to raise my eyebrow. Example, during a Griffendor party Fred offers her a sweet... (hmmmmmm Why would he do that? Maybe no reason.)

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Chris. - Mar 8, 2004 12:43 pm (#489 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Ooh! Good spotting there Mrs Sirius!

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Czarina - Mar 8, 2004 6:57 pm (#490 of 2916)

"[Hermione] really shows nothing but contempt for Ron."

In OoP, Lily Evans shows nothing but contempt for James Potter in the Pensieve scene. Strange, though, because three years later she is Lily Potter. Lily was showing REAL contempt, too. She despised James for being so mean to Snape, though she didn't like Snape either! The only contempt Hermione has shown for Ron has been rather minor -- he doesn't do his homework, doesn't pay attention, gets jealous over petty things...

Really, I think Hermione is thinking: "He is SUCH a jerk! Why can't he smarten up so I can stop feeling guilty about liking him?"

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Tsuta - Mar 8, 2004 10:05 pm (#491 of 2916)

Edited by S.E. Jones Mar 9, 2004 12:19 am
Czarina, you're so right lol (for what you said about Hermione) ...altought James was *really* a jerk -_-; I wonder what he did to seduce Lili

->Tsuta, check out this thread at the FanFiction forum if you want to know why you can't discuss this topic here, but you have already been warned to cease discussing. Further discussion will lead to a change in your member status. - S.E. Jones<-

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Jenny M. - Mar 8, 2004 11:59 pm (#492 of 2916)

Czarina, I think you're exactly right about Hermione liking Ron, but not liking the fact that she likes a boy who doesn't do his homework or pay attention in class.

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Fawkes Forever - Mar 9, 2004 1:42 am (#493 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Czarina, you know, I think you might just have hit the nail on the head with Ms Granger! I'd never thought that before & it makes so much sense.... & it's a very Hermione thing to do!

She goes out of her way to show that she would never fall for someone thats handsome or famous, (even though she goes out with Krum). In the same way, I can see her, trying to prove to herself & others, that she couldn't possibly fancy someone whos scatty, disorganised & short tempered! Denial is not only a river in Egypt Hermione

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coolbeans3131 - Mar 9, 2004 10:21 am (#494 of 2916)

hermione 3: ¿will Harry and Hermione will be together?*sight*

JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

I don't think this answer can be used by any ship as evidence. If you see H/H clues when you read the books, this seems to confirm it. If you see clues that H/H are never going to be together because of the obvious R/H or H/G clues (or what ever ship you "see" when you read the books) the answer seems to confirm that too. JKR is sooo crafty!

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 9, 2004 12:31 pm (#495 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
I really think that unless Ron starts excelling at something, any serious relationship he and Hermione might have is doomed.

Hermione excels at everything. The only thing Ron excels at is comic relief. Yes, he did do okay in that last Quidditch game. For his sake, I hope it is a trend. Otherwise any hope for their long-term happiness together is just that, a hope.

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Dr Filibuster - Mar 9, 2004 12:57 pm (#496 of 2916)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
Don't forget that the brains may change our Ron yet.

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Rod Beecham - Mar 9, 2004 1:41 pm (#497 of 2916)

Aren't we being a bit hard on Ron, here? This is a boy who has shown quite as much courage as Harry in highly dangerous situations (he tries to defend Harry physically while suffering from a broken leg in PoA, remember) and, far from being stupid, he is extremely intelligent. His dry humour alone is proof of that (Ron has most of the funniest lines).

Hermione admires courage, loyalty, and high principles, all of which Ron has in spades (his ripping up of Percy's letter is a demonstration of the high principles - remember Hermione's "odd look" after he does that?).

The sparring between Ron and Hermione is almost a paradigmatic example of relationship between people who care deeply enough about one another for each to express (habitually and almost unconsciously) his/her exasperation at the other's perceived shortcomings.

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 9, 2004 2:16 pm (#498 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 9, 2004 1:18 pm
Rod Beecham: "The sparring between Ron and Hermione is almost a paradigmatic example of relationship between people who care deeply enough about one another for each to express (habitually and almost unconsciously) his/her exasperation at the other's perceived shortcomings."

Preceived shortcomings? In a long-term relationship, those preceived shortcomings have a nasty habit of overshadowing all the other ones. Love does NOT conquer all, no matter what the poets say. The high divorce rate is proof of that.

If you go into a relationship feeling that love will smooth over those preceived differences, or that love will change your partner, you are in serious danger of being disappointed. You have to be willing to accept your partner "as is" forever. Any change for the better has to be looked upon as a bonus. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for trouble later on.

It is very hard for un-equal partners to not feel resentful towards each other. I did not say impossible, just very difficult. The strong partner resents the other for not pulling their weight, for holding them back. The weaker partner resents the stronger for always pushing and never being satisfied with their efforts. It is a recipe for conflict.

I would say that Ron and Herminone is almost a paradigmatic example of this very danger.

Courage, loyalty, and high principles do not pay the rent. They are indeed great traits, but they seldom come into play on a daily basis. Instead, they tend to come out during a crisis. What kind of relationship can you expect if your love is only fed in times of crisis? You had better hope that your life is one continual round of disaster! Smile

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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2004 3:23 pm (#499 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I read a couple of very interesting analyses of Hermione's increasingly hostile attitude toward Ron in OotP on SugarQuill. The posters there said that, basically,if you look at how they left things at the end of GoF: Ron had feelings for Hermione and was finally becoming fully aware of them (which he wasn't too comfortable with at first, hence his dislike of Krum), Ron was suddenly in unfamiliar territory with Hermione because he doesn't really know how she feels about him, Hermione might possibly have feelings for him, and Hermione knows he has feelings for her. Now if we assume that she does like him and knows he likes her, she may be waiting for him to make the first move and is becoming frustrared with him (remember the "you're as bad as Ron... no you're not" line...), and that's why she starts biting his head off more and more throughout the books.... Okay, I didn't phrase it quite as well as they did, but what do you guys think?

EDIT: Marcus, I don't think I quite understand why you think they are unequal. Could you explain? As for courage, loyalty, and high principles seldom coming into play on a daily basis, I have to disagree. If you are looking at them in their traditional forms, perhaps, but courage isn't just found in a knight on a horse riding into battle. These traits can be far more commonplace. Loyalty is going to work everyday to provide for your family. Moving to a new city because your spouse got transferred, anytime you have to try something new, requires courage. High principles are just the standards by which you live your life and what you value, e.g. Ron values honesty....

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 9, 2004 4:12 pm (#500 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
They are unequal in almost all ways. Hermione is more ambitious. She is smarter. She is more tactful. She is more aware of her surroundings. She is the more foreseeing. She is the harder worker. She is the more ethical. She is more clever. She is more resourceful.

Name one trait where Ron is Hermione's superior other than in comic relief?

Don't get me wrong. I LIKE Ron. But I don't see him in Hermione's league in anything.

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Madame Librarian - Mar 9, 2004 4:17 pm (#501 of 2916)
He's better at chess and better on a broom. He's funnier, too, but I suppose that won't count.

Ciao. Barb

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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2004 5:13 pm (#502 of 2916)

Let it snow!
He knows how to relax and enjoy being in the moment and how to take the moments as they come. He is more honest (trying to right one wrong with another, as Hermione was trying to do by tricking the House-elves into being free, is dishonest, in my opinion). And to expand on that, she can hardly be called more ethical. I certainly wouldn't call one superior to the other; they have complementary traits that I think offset each other quite well. She makes Ron take things a bit more seriosly and he makes her lighten up a bit.

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Hem Hem - Mar 9, 2004 7:38 pm (#503 of 2916)

Marcus, I completely agree that Ron and Hermione would make very mismatched spouses, unless they change a whole lot in their remaining adolescent years. However, perhaps JKR has been planting all these hints merely so that they could date a bit in their seventh year. They complement each other well enough to be a couple for while, if not forever.

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Brent Sloan - Mar 9, 2004 8:54 pm (#504 of 2916)

After 25 years of marriage I have to agree with Prefect Marcus on every count. There are realists and idealists when it comes to "forever" relationships.

However, I must also concede that I have seen a relationship where they were constantly at odds - they created their own mini crises, one after the other. My Grandparents stayed married for 57 years. Not my personal cup of tea, but it worked for them.

I guess it will be up to JKR as to what she would personally like to see for Harry in the happily ever after department.

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alexa - Mar 9, 2004 9:40 pm (#505 of 2916)

,assuming that Ron does managed to survive till Book 7.........

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Czarina - Mar 10, 2004 6:35 am (#506 of 2916)

Ron should survive at least TILL Bk7, don't you think? Whether he makes it out of that book alive is anyone's guess.

What may not work in real life (two people of opposite personalities getting married and staying that way happily) or may only seldom work is a strong trend in literature! How often is it that at the beginning of a story, two people can hardly stand one another and seem to have nothing in common, yet they're walking down the aisle at the end? In the wizarding world, things are never as they are in our world either.

Personally, I can see Ron's goofiness counterbalanced with Hermione's seriousness. Hermione usually finds Ron funny (if a bit juvenile -- but she is a VERY mature girl and he is your average 15/16-year-old boy). Ron is impressed with Hermione's academic skills and how disappointed was he when she didn't get to see him do well at something? For that matter, how disappointed was Hermione that she missed the Quidditch final? Harry didn't notice because he was too preoccupied, so the reader doesn't notice either.

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firebird - Mar 10, 2004 7:15 am (#507 of 2916)

Prefect Marcus: 'Courage, loyalty, and high principles do not pay the rent. They are indeed great traits, but they seldom come into play on a daily basis.'

Brent Sloan: 'There are realists and idealists when it comes to "forever" relationships.'

Well, Brent, that may the case when you are discussing 'forever' relationships, but it doesn't mean that R/H can't happen in the short-term. And I don't really see the adolescents in the HP books being very pragmatic when it comes to decisions regarding love and romance. I believe love -by its very nature- doesn't conform to pragmatic rules. One doesn't fall in love because one's partner has such and such achievements and perfect attributes! (Or that he is similar in such and such way to me.) Can you see how some imperfections can be endearing? I find Ron adorable only for his short temper, goofiness and self-deprecation, not for his Quidditch skills nor his chess skills nor any other prizes he may have won.

I personally think that a marriage/'ship is more likely to fall apart (just my opinion, and how I would feel) if the two share exactly the same skills or are too similar in personality to each other. Ron and Hermione, if they choose to become a couple, have more passion in their relationship (perhaps due to their constant arguing) than any other pair I have noticed in the books. I don't know about others, but I would find a completely different partner rather exciting, and a very similar one rather tedious after a while.

And Prefect Marcus: As for Hermione's superiority and for the idea that it would be impossible for her to be attracted to an inferior Ron, I would disagree. It is possible for a person to value one trait in themselves (in Hermione's case, intellectualism and academic ability) and not require the same of others they admire and even --love?

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 10, 2004 11:47 am (#508 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
firebird: "And Prefect Marcus: As for Hermione's superiority and for the idea that it would be impossible for her to be attracted to an inferior Ron, I would disagree."

So would I. I did not say they could not be attracted to each other. You can be hot and heavy for just about anybody for a short period of time. It happens all the time. Crushes are just one manifestation of it. So are one-night-stands.

It takes a lot more than mere attraction to make a relationship work in the long run. The high divorce rate is proof of that.

Marcus

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Sherbie Lemon - Mar 10, 2004 12:18 pm (#509 of 2916)

Firebird, I must agree. My husband and I are total opposites in most ways and that is what makes our relationship strong. When two people are too alike, they are constantly butting heads. But I think Ron and Hermione are alike in the ways that matter. For a start, they both value friendships and family, are extremely loyal, are brave and stubborn, are caring and compassionate, are able to work well as team, are willing to stand up for their beliefs, are giving and kind, are able to see past other's flaws and fight for the underdog (think Neville), are intelligent and relatively even-tempered (compared to Harry, that is).

But the clue that points most strongly at Ron and Hermione ending up together for the long haul is JKR drawing a correlation between Ron and his father, and Hermione and Molly.
"What do you think about this?' Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place."
I know there have been other similar quotes, but I can't look for them now.

I also think JKR's reply to the question concerning Harry and Hermione ending up together, when she says "but you've had enough clues by now, surely" or something like that, meant that surely we've had enough clues about who Hermione is going to choose, and it won't be Harry (not that he'd even want to be chosen). I remember her getting jealous about Fleur in GoF, when she kisses Ron, as well as the first part of the book, when Ron is staring at her.

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Just snooping - Mar 10, 2004 7:37 pm (#510 of 2916)

Sherbie Lemon: "[...] But I think Ron and Hermione are alike in the ways that matter. For a start, they both value friendships and family, are extremely loyal [...]"

I totally disagree with Sherbie Lemos on the "value family part". Actually, I keep wondering if JKR will kill off Hermione's parents just to put them out of their misery.

She's their only daughter, their pride and joy, yet she spends 9 months out of 12 at Hogwarts and whenever remotely possible she'll leave them during the summer/holidays to spend that time with Harry and Ron, wherever they happen to be (The Burrow or the HQ for the Order)

She even lies to them about her motives: in OotP she tells them that "everyone who is serious about their exams are staying at Hogwarts to study... they'll understand" In fact, she could have read her texts just as easily at home, and she didn't leave them to study, but to be with the boys.

However, she does value friendship (more than family anyway) and she has a great deal of compassion (House Elves, etc.)

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Sherbie Lemon - Mar 10, 2004 7:54 pm (#511 of 2916)

Just because Hermione doesn't see a lot of her parents, it doesn't mean that she doesn't value family! All teenagers lie to their parents, I remember telling mine some very tall tales, yet I love them more than anything. Also, during the ages of 13-18, I didn't want anyone to know I even had parents, let alone wanted to spend time with them.

Hermione is in a world foreign to her parents, like most teenagers, she is finding that she can't relate to them very well anymore (although she can't relate because she is growing and changing, as well as being a witch). Also, they could not possibly understand the wizarding world's situation like magical folks can. She lied to them in OotP to keep an eye on Harry, to keep him company, to reassure him about his vision, and to support Mr. Weasley (a member of a family she highly values: consider her anger and shock concerning Percy's leaving). Hermione is not needed at home as much as she is in the Wizarding World. She is making sacrifices to be where she will be most useful.

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Griffin - Mar 11, 2004 12:55 pm (#512 of 2916)

The biggest problem I face with the Ron and Hermione relationship is why are there so many hidden clues that point to Harry as a possible partner?

Sherbie Lemon’s example of the jealousy that Hermione feels when Fleur kisses Ron is a great example. Fleur also kisses Harry in the same scene, but it is written in JKR’s typically off-handish way (designed to be hidden when first read). This is a way that she has used to hide every important fact to date, even as far back as the first book.

On reading the first book, I wonder how many people were convinced that Snape was the villain? Yet we had all the clues about Quirrell in a similarly off-handish way. It was only when I read the ending of book 1 that I realised I had been fooled (because I was not expecting such an elegant ruse).

Why give everyone blatantly obvious clues about Ron and Hermione and then hide even more clues about Harry and Hermione? Has JKR planned an elaborate double ruse? This of course will not work with everyone, since I get the feeling that the majority of readers have picked up on the simple clues, and there would be no great surprise if it was Ron and Hermione.

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Sherbie Lemon - Mar 11, 2004 1:19 pm (#513 of 2916)

You make a good point, Griffin.

However, Hermione didn't seem the least bit jealous about Cho, quite the contrary, she gave him advice. Maybe some things don't have to be so complex. Everything vital to the series is hidden by subltle clues and clever inuendos. Perhaps the love lives of the trio can be a little more obvious. Besides, I don't think Harry could view Hermione as a love interest. I think he has a sibling-like relationship to her, as well as a tight friendship. I keep thinking about the scenerio after the Yule Ball, where Ron is obviously green with jealousy.
"Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!' Ron mouthed soundlessly like a goldfish out of water...'Well,' he sputtered, looking thunderstruck,'well - that just proves - completely missed the point -' Harry didn't say anything...but he somehow thought that Hermione had gotten the point much better than Ron had."
Harry was never jealous of Krum, he has never seemed jealous of Ron's obvious feelings about Hermione.

So, I still say it will be Ron and Hermione, though I feel you have a strong argument here, Griffin.

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 11, 2004 1:28 pm (#514 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 11, 2004 12:29 pm
Griffin, you just covered one of my biggest problems with the R-H ships.

If there is one thing you can count on in Rowling's writing, it is that you are in for a feast of red herrings. She is a magician in her use of misdirection. While her audience is happily gazing elsewhere, she is quietly cooking up her big surprises right in front of their noses.

So would she change her very nature on this subject? My suspicious nature says no.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. :-)

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firebird - Mar 11, 2004 2:31 pm (#515 of 2916)

Prefect Marcus: 'I did not say they could not be attracted to each other.'

Sorry, Marcus! I should have read your post more carefully before paraphrasing what you said! =)

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Rod Beecham - Mar 11, 2004 8:31 pm (#516 of 2916)

I've already said my piece about Hermione, but I'd like to make a more general point about Ron. He's intensely tribal. By that I mean that he is jealous of anyone and anything that threatens to disturb the existing circle of his family and friends. He doesn't like the idea of his sister Ginny being with anyone outside the circle: he wants her to be with Harry. He doesn't want Hermione to be with anyone at all because that will necessarily dilute her intimacy with himself and Harry (perhaps, like Jane Austen's Emma, he will only realize that Hermione/Mr Knightley should be with him at the end of the work, when it's obvious to everyone else at the beginning). He's complicated about Krum as much, I think, because Krum was "his" (in the sense of being his Quiddich hero) as because Krum showed romantic interest in Hermione. The Hermione-Krum thing breaks up all Ron's comfortable patterns of relationship.

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Lupin is Lupin. Natch. - Mar 11, 2004 10:20 pm (#517 of 2916)

Sometimes known as Kim.
What an excellent post, Rod. And it's a quality of Ron that I love. It's almost as if he sees that Ginny belongs with Harry and Hermione belongs with him (even if he can't quite admit it to himself)so why let other people interfere with the natural order of things.

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Just snooping - Mar 11, 2004 10:51 pm (#518 of 2916)

Sherbie Lemmon:

Between the ages of 13-18 I may very well have had a hard time connecting with my parents, but it would have taken more than a rampaging herd of hippographs to keep me away from them during Christmas... something Hermione does quite often, and not necessarily in a crisis.

If anything, the fact that she is leaving her parents behind for a world that is disconnected from them is more of a motivation for her to show a little compassion and at least be at the table for the Chistmas turkey.

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Jenny M. - Mar 12, 2004 1:29 am (#519 of 2916)

Well, yes, Just, Hermy's parents do need to see her, but (shh) JK needs her on hand at Hogwarts too!

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firebird - Mar 12, 2004 12:36 pm (#520 of 2916)

Or, Ron feels that Ginny should stay infatuated with Harry because he believes Harry will never actually get into a relationship with her...? I don't really see Ron accepting his best friend and his sister in a romantic relationship... no matter how much faith he has in Harry's decency. Or perhaps he feels that they would be good together now -in the virtual confines of his mind- but if it happens in reality, I don't see him reacting all that pleasantly.

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Chris. - Mar 12, 2004 4:12 pm (#521 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Ron is pushing Harry and Ginny into a relationship, fearing Hermione has an attraction to 'The Boy Who Lived', Harry Potter and that she wouldn't look twice at the boy with the embarrassing middle name *snigger*

I still think Harry and Ginny have too many connections to not have anything there.

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Star Crossed - Mar 17, 2004 7:28 pm (#522 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
You forgot the caps. It's The Boy Who Lived With The Embarrassing Middle Name. Silly, silly Kingsley. Razz

Personally, there are two ships I would die defending. Ron/Hermione and Snape/Sinistra. It really surprised me I didn't see anyone mention anything. I searched and all I found was a slight mention. Snape/Sinistra is actually written in the stars. Plus Sinistra means 'Dark' or 'Sinister', which sounds just like Snape! Plus they are always seen together and Sinistra is mentioned way too often for her not to matter. Just like The Ultimate Guide to Harry Potter (I believe. *ashamed* Can't remember the title.), I, too, am curious why that is the only class we have not seen yet. Is it that awful that Harry tries not to think about it? He thinks about History of Magic, even!

Though I still believe Snape had a crush on Lily during their school years.

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Czarina - Mar 18, 2004 6:42 am (#523 of 2916)

I kinda thought Snape had a crush on Narcissa Black when they were younger. It would explain why he is so tolerant of young Malfoy.

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Fawkes Forever - Mar 18, 2004 10:58 am (#524 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Snape & Sinistra, now theres an interesting theory... perhaps we should ask Gina...

Just a little thought on Ron. It's a thought that struck me on my last reread of PS... perhaps I'm speaking a load of old tosh, but here goes anyways....

I think we are all agreed that Ron fancies Hermione (to some degree)..... but perhaps the reason he hasn't acted on this crush before is because of his lack of self confidence. It has been said time & time again that Ron feels over shadowed by his older brothers, & then in turn by Harrys success. Perhaps its possible that due to this lack of self esteem, Ron doesn't feel worthy of Hermione? Seeing Hermione with a popular quidditch player (Krum) could have compounded these feelings more "Why would she want someone like me when she could have a world famous quidditch player hanging off her arm"

Interesting to note however that Rons confidence is growing since he got the prefects badge! So who knows...

Anyways, I don't know, I just needed to get it off my chest! But there it is, my mad theory out in the open .... feel free to disect or rip apart as you see fit

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Czarina - Mar 18, 2004 12:42 pm (#525 of 2916)

Yes, Ron could feel that by being on the Quidditch team and being a prefect makes him "worthy" of Hermione. That would explain why he was so determined to get on the team, wouldn't it? And why he was so disappointed when Hermione didn't get to see him win the Cup. All he does to impress her and she doesn't pay attention! (And she accuses him of being inattentive! :-)) Remember how guilty Hermione felt about missing the game? How she didn't want to tell Ron right away about Grawp because of it? That leads me to believe that Hermione has recognized that Ron is trying to impress her. It seems like there is a whole song-and-dance going on between them that Harry, of course, doesn't understand and hardly notices.

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Star Crossed - Mar 18, 2004 3:09 pm (#526 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I felt so bad! I picked up on that, too! Poor Ron. We all know he fancies Hermione, and he tries so hard to impress yet, but he's also playing that 'She's a girl and I don't like her' game that boys his age play. Believe me, I know. Stinks to be fourteen. Wink I think now that Fred and George are gone, they'll be able to actually say something. And perhaps Harry won't notice. Poor bloke is blind, even with his glasses.

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alexa - Mar 18, 2004 6:04 pm (#527 of 2916)

Well, I think Harry do know. Harry is a sensitive person and perhaps he is waiting for Ron himself to make the first move to confide in him. He didn't want to embarrass Ron by openly teasing him about his affection for Hermione. Remember after Ron's dismay Quidditch match, it was mentioned that "out of respect for his feelings", Harry deliberately enter the dormitory much later so that Ron could pretend to have fallen asleep. In GoF, after the Yule ball, when Hermione said "ask me out before someone else", Harry mentioned something like he felt that Hermione had get the facts right rather than Ron. That means Harry certainly do recognize the sparks between his two best friends, but is wisely (should I say 'wisely', not too sure) keeping his thoughts to himself at this stage.

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Lupin is Lupin. Natch. - Mar 18, 2004 7:46 pm (#528 of 2916)

Sometimes known as Kim.
After reading these last few posts I wonder if I'm alone in thinking this, but here goes...I don't think Ron knows that he likes Hermione. He just isn't there yet, maturity-wise. Hermione, as a girl, is a bit more clued in. I don't think she's at the point where she wants to put her cards on the table but she knows she likes Ron. Ron has all the emotions but he just hasn't come to terms with them. I don't think he feels unworthy of Hermione. I've never thought Ron lacked self-confidence, well except maybe Quidditch. But that was just nerves. I just think his jealousy of Hermione is a reflection of his internal conflict between his feelings for Hermione and his willingness to acknowledge them. I think in Book 6, once they're all 16 and more mature it will be pretty hard to ignore their feelings and they won't even want to.

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S.E. Jones - Mar 19, 2004 8:21 pm (#529 of 2916)

Let it snow!
What does everyone make of this quote?

World Day, March 4, 2004:
renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too.

I thought we'd figured before that Hermione couldn't have gone to Bulgaria because she spent the summer at Order HQ with the Weasleys, but do we actually know this? Harry says that it sounds from their letters like their together wherever they're at. Harry, himself, doesn't get to Grimmauld Place until the beginning of August, so perhaps Hermione didn't get to HQ until shortly before Harry. If so, is it possible that she really went to Bulgaria? Any thoughts?

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Chris. - Mar 20, 2004 1:39 pm (#530 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Another thing I saw pointing to a Ron and Hermione 'ship was Harry says it sounded like they were together. It could mean:

In the same place

Or in a relationship

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Fawkes Forever - Mar 22, 2004 9:36 am (#531 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Sarah, hmm, funny you say that, because that answer irked me a bit as well. I then took it as that they (Hermione & Krum) kept up a correspondence over the summer... but then I thought, if Hermione was in Grimmauld place for the summer, then that wouldn't have been an easy thing to do, possible security risk & so on.

I then thought perhaps Hermione went to Grimmauld place just before Harry got there, Seemingly most had just arrived, as they had only started to purge the house from all the pests!

Then Kingsleys comments reminded me of Harrys thoughts.... that lead me to think that wherever Hermione was, she was with Ron, either in the Burrow (where she could have sent letters from) or Grimmauld place, and they where in the same place at least since before Harrys birthday. Seeing as they left school at the end of June, that leaves a small window of time for Hermione to go to Bulgaria.... (unless Viktor visited her ) Hermione has never mentioned going to Bulgaria... not even to Harry on his own... but she made no secret that she was writing to him, so why wouldn't she mention a visit?

Hope that made sense, think I've just confused myself.

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Czarina - Mar 22, 2004 1:21 pm (#532 of 2916)

I don't think that Hermione went to Bulgaria. Any fourteen-year-old who gets to go to Bulgaria would talk about it. She would mention her trip. To ease Harry out of his depression (or distract him), she would have shown him pictures or told him about her adventures. Ron would have been obviously jealous, but she still would have tried to talk to him about her trip. After all, she would want to reassure him that she DOESN'T like Krum in "that" way.

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S.E. Jones - Mar 22, 2004 4:20 pm (#533 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Why would she do that with Harry, er, try to re-assure him about not liking Krum, I mean? She didn't do that during the entire course of GoF that I can think of. (Or, did I read your post wrong?)... Anyway, I don't think she would've mentioned it because it would've caused a fight between her and Ron and that wasn't what Harry needed to be put in the middle of at the time, he needed both of them presenting a unified, accepting front. He needed friends who were on speaking terms not friends who were arguing and Hermione is, as we've seen, quick enough, mature enough, to catch onto that....

Just thought I'd include something else. I found this passage to be very funny, considering all the times that Hermione got onto Ron for not being perceptive, especially about people's emotional states and relationships specifically. This is an example of when Ron hit the nail on the head and Hermione missed, for once:
Hermione: "Are you going to see her again?"
"I'll have to, won't I?" said Harry. "We've got D.A. meetings, haven't we?"
"You know what I mean," said Hermione impatiently.
Harry said nothing. Hermione's words opened up a whole new vista a frightening possibilities. He tried to imagine going somewhere with Cho --- Hogsmeade, perhaps --- and being alone with her for hours at a time. Of course, she would have been expecting him to ask her out after what had just happened.... The thought made his stomach clench painfully.
"Oh well," said Hermione distantly.... "you'll have plenty of opportunities to ask her...."
"What if he doesn't want to ask her?" said Ron, who had been watching Harry with an unusually shrewd expression on his face.
"Don't be silly," said Hermione vaguely, "Harry's liked her for ages, haven't you, Harry?"
He did not answer. Yes, he had liked Cho for ages, but whenever he had imagined a scene involving the two of them it had always featured a Cho who was enjoying herself, as opposed to a Cho who was sobbing uncontrollably into his shoulder.
(OotP, ch21, pg460, US)

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Lupin is Lupin. Natch. - Mar 22, 2004 4:41 pm (#534 of 2916)

Sometimes known as Kim.
S.E., I like that passage, too and not just because of Ron and Hermione's momentarily reversed roles. There are so many great passages throughout the books that highlight the differences between the sexes. One of the best for me is when Lockhart gets hurt in the duel with Snape and Hermione squeals, "Do you think he's hurt?" and Ron and Harry reply in unison, "Who cares?" I thought that was so wonderfully boyish, and I laughed out loud reading it. Back to this scene in the common room, I just picture Harry and Ron each thinking getting a girl under the mistletoe would be nice but never for a moment thinking the ramifications might include a "relationship". Meanwhile, Hermione, in typical female fashion is taking everything to the next level. And lest I offend anyone I really am talking about male/female in very broad terms. I'm relying on the most generous of stereotypes. I know there are expections to the rules. Am not looking for a fight (looking feverishly around for a place to duck and cover...).

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S.E. Jones - Mar 22, 2004 6:15 pm (#535 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Harry wasn't trying to get a girl under the mistletoe, though, poor thing. All he wanted was a "Merry Christmas." There is even the line, as Cho starts to cry, Harry felt thoroughly miserable. He'd have been so pleased just with a Merry Christmas.... Too bad he didn't know when to run. (Okay, I'm being a bit facetious here; a bit.) There do seem to be a few other times when Ron is a bit better tuned into Harry's emotional state than Hermione is; she take it a bit too for granted that she's more mature than him sometimes, I think.....

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Czarina - Mar 22, 2004 8:14 pm (#536 of 2916)

Just to clarify, I meant that Hermione would want to reassure RON that there was nothing serious between her and Krum. I guess I assumed that since I would find a trip to a foreign country interesting and something I'd want to talk about, Hermione would too. I would want to tell my two best friends about my trip to Bulgaria, if I went. Hence I don't think Hermione went all the way to Bulgaria, then came back and spent the rest of the summer with Ron. Doesn't she like her family at all? Wouldn't her parents be worried about their FOURTEEN-year-old spending the entire summer with boys? Especially as they would have never met Krum -- an older boy from Bulgaria. (My mother would be quite scared.)

I do like it when Ron is more perceptive than Hermione.

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S.E. Jones - Mar 23, 2004 12:31 am (#537 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Thanks for the clarification, Czarina. Could Hermione have gone with her parents before she left them to go to Grimmauld Place?

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Chris. - Mar 23, 2004 3:14 am (#538 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Hermione was at Grimmauld Place all summer for protection. Now knowing from his Death Eaters that Hermione is a muggle-born witch AND a friend of his arch enemy, Potter, Dumbledore fears that Voldemort may and try away the thing that Harry shows most of: Love. I'm not saying a 'Ship love but a love for a friend.

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milti girl - Apr 3, 2004 11:05 am (#539 of 2916)

I've been reading OotP again, and I am at the part where Cho and Harry were on Harry's very first date, at Madame Puddifoot's.

He felt his face growing hot and tried staring out of the window, but it was so steamed up he couldn't see the street outside. To postpone the moment when he would have to look at Cho, he stared up at the ceiling as though examining the paintwork and received a handful of confetti in the face from their hovering cherub. After a few more painful moments, Cho mentioned Umbridge. Harry seized on the subject with relief and they passed a few happy moments abusing her, but the subject had already been so thoroughly canvassed during DA meetings it did not last very long. Silence fell again. Harry was very conscious of the slurping noises coming from the table next door and cast wildly around for something else to say.

How come Harry and Cho found it so difficult to start up conversation? Okay, granted, this was Harry's very first time out with a girl, he had a killer crush on her and he was always the shy type; and of course he couldn't be sure that Cho wouldn't start crying at anything he said. Also add the fact that this was practically a blind date – neither knew very much about the other. Still, wouldn't that give them MORE to talk about? How come it never struck Harry to ask her all about herself – her home, her likes (there have to be more of them than just Quidditch, surely), her dislikes, her birthday, what she did on the last one, what she was planning for New Years', etc., etc.

Obviously first dates with anyone are painful. Both people are wondering what the other really thinks of them, both are wondering what to say. Cho would have been out with lots of boys before; how come she didn't know how to break the awkward silence? Yes, I did notice that Harry tried to say something about Quidditch, but I think if Harry and Cho had started up conversation about something other than DA, or Cedric, or Voldemort, they might have both found it interesting and Cho wouldn't have wanted to keep thinking just about Cedric.

Personally I have never found it too awkward to talk to a guy on any date. On my first date I did more talking than eating. My date and I will spend hours chatting about silly little stuff, more like friends. Harry's absolute tonguetied-ness leaves me mystified, because I think they had loads more than Umbridge and Cedric to talk about...so I was just surprised that they both couldn't see that.

Also I think the reason a bad impression of Cho was left is because the books are mainly written from Harry's viewpoint and Harry was quite disgusted that she accepted his proposal for a date and then spoke about the thing Harry didn't want to think of at all. However if Harry had not been so shy and if he had tried getting to know her more, and asked her more about herself and told him more about himself, he would have seen a lot more to Cho than just That Girl Who Expects Me To Tell Her How Her Boyfriend Died When I Would Much Rather Forget About It. And we would have got to know Cho better too, and then maybe she wouldn't seem such a lopsided character. At the moment though, Harry is very disillusioned with her and that's why the readers are too. But I think Cho is very nice and sweet and will make a really good girlfriend to the kind of guy she REALLY likes.

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Star Crossed - Apr 3, 2004 3:18 pm (#540 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't know, Milti, I always get nervous when talking to my crush. Luckily, I'm really good friends with the guy I like, so I don't blush whenever he talks to me, but I still never know what to say. He's an outgoing guy, so he always talks to fill the silence. I think they both acted normally.

And also, my friends and I don't even talk about our birthdays or anything like that. Out of all my friends, I know one of their birthday's. Scratch that, I'm not completely sure I know my best friend's birthday. Nor do I know their midlde names or anything. It's just things you don't ask.

I know what you mean about Cho being more used to this sort of thing, but I don't think the silences were awkward for her. If you ask me, she seems to be thinking. Probably about Cedric, if you ask me. If she was, then it would make much more sense why she brought up the topic.

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DJ Evans - Apr 3, 2004 8:42 pm (#541 of 2916)

Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
I think Harry behave just as he's been taught to all of his life--DON'T ASK QUESTIONS!!! That's what he was hearing all of the time from Vernon & Petunia in his growing years and still hears it from them. So when he finally gets away from them, it's been so ingrained into him that if you notice, he really doesn't ask anybody any questions. Or at least not like any other normal person would who are finally around those who knew his parents and what all happened back then. Every once and awhile he'll ask a question, but just one or two & then he acts as if it's as bad as getting a tooth pulled. So if you put that with it being his first date & him not knowing much about girls, then he acted normal for him I would think. Plus, it must have been hard for him to "come out of his shell" with all of the other "loving" couples that were there in Madame Puddifoot's!!!

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milti girl - Apr 4, 2004 6:24 am (#542 of 2916)

I just noticed something...and sorry if it has already been brought up, but I scanned all the messages and didn't spot anything like this -- does anyone else get the feeling that Ron and Hermione have been together since the summer? Because I came across a very normal line, and then to my surprise I saw it repeated in many other places too -- "Harry sat down opposite Ron and Hermione at the dinner table" (paraphrasing), "Harry sat on Ron's left" (again, I am paraphrasing). If Harry sat on Ron's left it would mean that Hermione was on his right, so Ron and Hermione were next to each other. And this is mostly seen only when they are eating. And also, if I'm not mistaken, Hermione somewhere, "moved aside to make place for Ron" and so he ended up sitting next to her again. Or maybe I'm just imagining it.

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Star Crossed - Apr 4, 2004 7:11 am (#543 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I read about that on Muggle Net. They have a lot of good points at why they may be going out already. I'm not sure if I'm for or against this yet. While I am a die hard Ron/Hermione shipper, I don't think they would totally clue out their friend. But then again, what could they say:

'Hey, Harry. How are the muggles? We can't tell you too much. Don't get angry. Oh, yeah, Hermione and I are dating. Well, we hope we see you soon!'

If someone wrote me a letter like that, I'd never talk to them again. And maybe they could tell him when he first arrives, but he had a bit of an anger problem. So maybe they are dating, but just never had the right time to tell him. Too bad Harry's so thick. I'm quite curious if they are dating or not. Razz

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S.E. Jones - Apr 4, 2004 10:18 pm (#544 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I've read that essay too, Star Crossed. It's here, by the way, if anyone is interested.....

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 4, 2004 11:48 pm (#545 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Nah, I doubt Harry would be that thick not to notice. Ron maybe, but not Harry.

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Czarina - Apr 5, 2004 7:42 am (#546 of 2916)

I don't know Marcus, Harry was pretty self-absorbed in OoP. He observes things AS THEY RELATE TO HIM. He was angry that Ron and Hermione were spending time together without him, for instance. Furthermore, as he does not see Hermione as a romantic interest, he doesn't see why Ron would. Hence it doesn't enter into his young mind that they could be dating. If Ron and Hermione are trying to keep their relationship a secret, esp. from Harry, and they are successful, then there is no reason for him to notice. Ron might think that Harry also has an interest in Hermione, so he doesn't want to jeopardize their friendship (think of how badly they fought in GoF) by talking to Harry openly about dating her. Hermione would probably be self-conscious about her image -- she is the "brainy good-girl", after all. Considering how Parvati and Lavender appear to view her, think of all the nasty rumours that could get spread around about "Hermione the tart" that might even get to the Slytherins! No, I can perfectly see why Harry wouldn't notice.

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 5, 2004 8:38 am (#547 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
No, it just doesn't "feel" right.

In order for this to work, too many unlikely things have to happen:

Ron and Hermione would have to have an overwhelming reason to deceive their best friend Harry. They don't. Why would Harry honestly care? And if Hermione was afraid of her geek-girl reputation, she wouldn't have gone out with Krum.
Harry, a person with remarkable powers of observation, would have to be as blind as a post. He isn't.
Ron and Hermione would have to be in complete control of their emotions at all times. There can be no touching, gazing, whispers, smiles, flushes, preening, etc., etc. All this at the height of teenage hormonal assault. Herminone *might*...*might* pull it off. Ron? HA! Good one!.
If this were the case, Hermione would be two-timing Ron in plain view, goading him with long letters to Krum. She does this to Ron, who hasn't a snowball's chance to keep his emotions, actions, and words under control when provoked. And she does it in front of Harry. How likely is that if she was desperately trying to keep their relationship a secret?
This is the sort of thing that I would expect in an adolescent dimestore novel with a pastel cover. Not that I am knocking adolescent dimestore novels. They have their place. But this is Harry Potter. I would no more expect this than I would expect Harry to suddenly launch into Hamlet's soliloquy. :-)

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Padfoot - Apr 5, 2004 3:18 pm (#548 of 2916)

I agree with Prefect Marcus. There would be way too many obvious clues if they were going out. Ron can't keep a secret from his best friend. Besides, even if Harry was completely unobservant, there is the rest of the school. There would have been gossip floating around that Harry couldn't have missed. I think Ron and Hermione will eventually start dating, however they have not started yet.

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Catherine - Apr 5, 2004 3:45 pm (#549 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Unlike Prefect Marcus, I'm not sure that I think Harry's powers of observation are all THAT keen, but I will admit it's a stretch to think that Ron and Hermione are going out and keeping it a complete secret.

They all do keep secrets, though. Ron was keeping his Quidditch practicing a secret at the beginning of OotP; Hermione kept the secret of the Time-Turner; Harry kept the secret of what Umbridge's detention was really like. They all keep secrets to some extent.

Harry has noticed the constant bickering between Ron and Hermione, which I think is a clue of the tension and/or attraction that might be there. But I'm not sure that Harry is clued in enough to guess what the bickering might mean. He's not exactly experienced with relationships; only Hermione and Mrs. Weasley have held or kissed him (until Cho's Christmas kiss) since he was an infant, at least as far as he remembers.

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 5, 2004 4:08 pm (#550 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Catherine,

The theory is that Ron and Hermione are already seeing each other, but are keeping it a secret from Harry.

You are correct that they all keep secrets. Of the other secrets you mentioned, the only one comparable IMO is Hermione and the Time-turner. She managed to keep it for a full ten months, but even here there were tell-tale signs that all was not right.

Ron didn't keep his practicing a secret for very long, did he? And he was pretty bad at it. He couldn't even do it for a week without Harry noticing something was up.

Harry didn't keep Umbridge's detentions a secret for very long, either. Only about a week, if memory serves.

The early-dating theory requires Ron and Hermione to keep up the pretense for an entire school year -- more if you count the time in Grimauld Place. How likely is that?

Marcus

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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:55 am

Catherine - Apr 5, 2004 5:55 pm (#551 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Prefect Marcus,

I wasn't disagreeing with you about the likelihood of Ron and Hermione dating on the sly, just with your statement that Harry has keen powers of observation. It's just my opinion, but I think that's an overstatement from what we've seen so far.

With that in mind, I do think it is reasonable that the bickering and seeming jealousy between the two indicates that something might be there. I myself am NOT convinced that there is an actual dating relationship currently!

As for my examples of "secret-keeping" (no pun intended!), Ron's Quidditch practicing and Harry's abusive detentions were discovered quite by accident, not by the trio really confiding in each other.

So, again, I never said you were wrong that it is unlikely that Ron and Hermione are secretly dating. I'll try to aim for more clarity next time.

Cheers.

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S.E. Jones - Apr 5, 2004 8:22 pm (#552 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't think they are currently dating either. I think it is far more likely that they are on the brink of dating, though. They are increasingly more at ease, not only with each other as companions, but with each other as members of the opposite sex (e.g. Ron giving Hermione perfume for Christmas). We already knew that Hermione saw Ron as a boy but now he sees her as a girl and not just "one of the gang". Their bickering has also dissolved into something resembling a married couple's (even Harry was reminded of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley once or twice during their arguments). Also they are closer as friends and share a little more in common (both being made prefect, DA, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if Hermione's constant writing to Krum doesn't spur Ron into asker her out soon.... Or maybe Krum will finally show up and force Ron to do something, sort of like in GoF? That would be a funny scene to read!

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stillramona - Apr 5, 2004 11:20 pm (#553 of 2916)

No matter how often I read the books, HRH still seem to me to be more like siblings. Sometimes they get along, sometimes not. Their disagreements, or lack thereof, remind me somewhat of the goings-on in a close-knit family. They're great friends, but for 'shipping purposes, not really suited to one another. (ducks to avoid incoming.)

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Rod Beecham - Apr 6, 2004 5:39 am (#554 of 2916)

Whether they're suited or not isn't really the point, is it? These people are fifteen years old, and as many people twice or three times their age are clueless about relationships I think it's unreasonable to expect them to behave entirely rationally in what is the most irrational of human experiences.

Having said that, I don't believe that there is anything "going on" in an active sense between Ron and Hermione at this stage. But I endorse the view of Harry as clueless when it comes to interpersonal relationships. Yes, he is brave, intelligent, resourceful, etc., but he is all at sea when it comes to his own and others' intimate feelings. To say this is not to criticise him: how could he be otherwise, given the hideous upbringing he had? Harry has been driven into himself, required to eliminate all outward manifestations of feeling to ensure his own survival in the ghastly household of the Dursleys. Now that he is adolescing, his immense reservoirs of anger are starting to overflow, but he scarcely acknowledges them, let alone understands where they come from or what they mean. This does not make him a good judge of others.

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 6, 2004 10:01 am (#555 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Harry IS very observant. We are always reading where he notices little details that are not obvious to other people. That is one of his strengths. Where Harry fails is in the area of interpreting what he sees. So while we can always trust his observations, we cannot always trust his interpretation of them.

Harry has known Ron and Herminone intimately for five long years. They are the closest of friends. They sit together in the same classes almost the whole day. They eat their meals together. They spend most of their leisure time together. Their behaviour patterns are indelibly etched into Harry's brain. He knows what they will say and how they will act in any given situation. If those patterns shift, he is going to notice. Whether or not he understands the shift is a different matter, but he WILL notice.

Let me illustrate my point with the following example. One of my college roommates was out on a date. I was sitting in the apartment with my back to the door when he returned. I knew the instant he walked in that he had proposed to her. I didn't even have to look at him. The sound alone told me everything. I found out later that they were going to keep it a secret for at least a week. HA! And I had only shared a room with this guy for four short months.

So other than the fact that Hermione and Ron are starting to bicker more than usual, and Ron is very jealous of Hermione's attentions, Harry has not noticed anything that would suggest that they are actively dating. To claim Ron and Hermione have been able to keep it from their closest friend for nearly a year stretches credulity beyond belief.

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Czarina - Apr 6, 2004 12:11 pm (#556 of 2916)

Not entirely beyond belief, but certainly not likely. Still, it's JKR's story and if we learn in Ch.2 of Bk6 that Ron and Hermione have been dating (or even sort of dating) for most of OoP, I wouldn't be entirely surprised. It would make for some interesting dialogue, for certain. Either way is fine by me.

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Lupin is Lupin. Natch. - Apr 6, 2004 2:26 pm (#557 of 2916)

Sometimes known as Kim.
I think a strong argument could be made for Ron and Hermione not dating yet is because it is simply too rich a literary device to let happen outside the main purview. Their ultimate acknowledgment of each as romantic partners is one of the plot lines I'm most anticipating. The possibilities are too rich to ignore and I don't think JKR will. She'll milk that scene for all it's worth.

I wonder what the title of that chapter will be?

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Rod Beecham - Apr 6, 2004 3:43 pm (#558 of 2916)

Prefect Marcus, your distinction between noticing and interpreting is a very shrewd one, and I have to agree with you, with one important exception: Cho Chang. Harry failed lamentably on both counts with her. When his own emotions are involved, Harry consistently gets things wrong (his hatred of Snape, for example, has been intensified by Sirius' death, which can hardly be considered Snape's fault).

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timrew - Apr 6, 2004 5:05 pm (#559 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
True, Rod. Harry is, at the moment, a crazy, mixed-up kid. He is lamentably lame with women (I know how he feels!) His brush with Cho Chang was embarrassingly naive!

I think he needs a woman to take control of the romance side of things, while he gets on with the wizarding. Ginny is ideal.....an embryo Molly!

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mike miller - Apr 6, 2004 7:34 pm (#560 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Show me a 15-16 year ald that is adept at interpersonal relationships with the opposite sex and I'll show you the exception to the rule. There's no doubt that Harry's an extreme case since he has lived nearly his entire life devoid of good examples. The hormones are raging and even more so than his friends, Harry doesn't know how to deal with them.

I'm also in the camp that Ron and Hermione have not yet started to "date". I think Marcus is right in that Harry would have noticed something, just probably not figured it out correctly. In my opinion, in time Ron and Hermione are perfect for each other.

I'm sure we've met the girl who might be right for Harry. I'm with Tim on maybe a blind date set up by Ginny!

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Czarina - Apr 7, 2004 7:03 am (#561 of 2916)

By Ginny or with Ginny? Or both?

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mike miller - Apr 7, 2004 9:44 am (#562 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
I was thinking Ginny would set up Harry on a date with someone else, probably outside his class and house. Ginny seems to be a good judge of character and socially well connected at Hogwarts.

My main point is I don't think we've meet Harry's true girlfriend yet. I can't see him with any of the girls we've seen so far. I'm firmly in the Ron/Hermione camp, so that let's Hermione out. I just don't see anyone in line for Harry. To this point, I don't think it has really mattered. Harry is relationship challenged due to his long years with ther Dursley's and there has been so much else going on to get too interested in girls.

However, I think year 6 is about the right time. The events at the end of OotP could be used to help Harry to grow up. He's going to need to with what's ahead on the Voldemort side. Perhaps we will see more school sponsored social activity this year that will create the opportunity for Ginny help Harry out with a little match making. Ginny seems the best person for the job. Let's face it, Harry's going to need some help!

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 7, 2004 10:34 am (#563 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Mike Miller - My main point is I don't think we've meet Harry's true girlfriend yet.

Au contraire, Mike. Pansy Parkinson is available now that the Malfoys have been proven to the world to be losers. You think she is going to remain loyal to a sinking ship? What kind of self-respecting Slytherin would do that?

Now I am not committed to this, mind you. The commitment will come if she joins DA in #6. If she doesn't, well so much for that theory.

The key is Book #6.

Marcus

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Star Crossed - Apr 7, 2004 12:11 pm (#564 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The key is always the book we do not yet have. Razz

I read somewhere on the Forum that JK Rowling said she had been to many fansites, but she has never found anyone who guessed who Harry would end with. So that completely rules out Hermione and Ginny who are very obvious first (and second) choices.

Maybe our dear Prefect is on to something. I did read somewhere else on the Forum (I should really look where I'm getting this stuff. Hmm...) that Harry's mother had a flower name, his aunt, and now Pansy would complete that. I think that theory was so adorable. Though I'm still not sure if Harry and Pansy are truly madly, I think it would be fun to read.

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Loopy Lupin - Apr 7, 2004 3:54 pm (#565 of 2916)

Marcus started the Harry's Ship Uniting the Houses thread and he makes a good case there that Harry may end of with Pansy. (I do hope JKR's description of her as "pug-faced" means "pug-faced" in a nice way somehow). I also cannot believe that Ron and Hermione could have or would have secretly dated throughout OoP. (If so, her long letter to Viktor was rather rude).

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 7, 2004 3:58 pm (#566 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Loopy Lupin - (I do hope JKR's description of her as "pug-faced" means "pug-faced" in a nice way somehow).

Well, it is possible that it is meant in the same way as Harry's convection that Cedric was just a pretty boy without brains to fill a thimble.

:-)

Marcus

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Loopy Lupin - Apr 7, 2004 4:32 pm (#567 of 2916)

Yes, but he was still "pretty" nonetheless. People often refer to pugs (as well as English Bulldogs) as "so ugly, they're cute." Maybe that applies to Pansy. Smile

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mike miller - Apr 7, 2004 5:15 pm (#568 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
O.K. Marcus I'm up to speed on the Pansy Parkinson 'ship. Great theory and I must admit I've not kept up with JKR's interviews. It would seem that we've already met this person. Is there another character that has at least been named, maybe in the year behind Harry? Anyway,I'll still hold on to a piece of my theory that Ginny Weasley will be the catalyst to Harry finalling getting together with someone, Pansy or not.

The dynamics of the Slytherin House could change dramatically with some prominent Wizards now in Azkaban (but for how long? - yet another thread). JKR could easily create circumstances for Pansy to show us another side. I like the fact, I think mentioned by Looney Lupin, that Lily and James were far apart at this age too. If Pansy joins the DA,I can only hope she has outgrown the "pug-faced" look of her pre-teen years.

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Sherbie Lemon - Apr 7, 2004 7:21 pm (#569 of 2916)

Hmm...This thread has been quite interesting as of late. About the quote that's sparked these past 40 or so posts, I always assumed that the question and answer, "renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer? JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too." pertained to this summer, 6th year summer. It seems almost present tense, or at least in the way JKR framed her answer, it seems like recent past. But it could certainly be about OotP summer. Oh, I hate how some of these questions were phrased. A better way to ask would have been "what happened between Hermione and Viktor during 5th year summer?" That would have eliminated any doubts. But alas, hindsight is always 20/20.

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Denise P. - Apr 7, 2004 8:19 pm (#570 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Can someone point me in the direction of the interview where JKR says she has never seen Harry paired with the girl she has in mind for him? I thought it was in the most recent one but didn't see it.

Marcus, I did find something interesting in regards to Pansy. JKR in her most recent one was asked:

If you could be any female character in harry potter and the Philosopher's stone which one would you be?
JK Rowling replies -> Hermione. Definitely not Pansy Parkinson.

Now, I realize it just asks about PS/SS but if Pansy is to come around, I would think JKR would not be so emphatic about not wanting to be her.

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 7, 2004 9:40 pm (#571 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Yes, Denise, I am painfully aware of that statement bashing Pansy. I'm taking it as JKR being cagey. Just like the comment she made about keeping an eye on old Snape.

She isn't about to ruin the suspense of the next two books by stating that (a)Yes, Snape is a good guy you can trust 100%... and (b)Pansy reforms. If anything, she is going to drop dark hints about them.

Hey, that's exactly what she did! :-)

As to the reference, check out Post#3 on my "Harry's ship uniting the Houses" thread.

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Dumbly-dorr - Apr 8, 2004 11:26 am (#572 of 2916)

I've read the forum for so long, and enjoyed every minute of it, that I've not signed-on myself, but this theory was made me grin so wide I had to tell everyone.

JK Rowling has already told us, straight out, who Harry will be with. Before I just blurt out the answer, here's the background.

In this thread someone mentioned an interview with JK Rowling in which she said that no one has yet guessed who Harry will end up with, which indicated that we already know the character.

From the "Prophecy" thread:

Remember in GoF when Trelawney is predicting Harry's demise for the zillionith time, and Harry is shrugging it off? Ron jokes that if Harry had died all the times that Trewlawney predicted, Harry would be "sort of a super concentrated ghost."


We'll it's been mentioned many times that when Ron jokes around he sometimes is right in a "prophecy" sort of way.

OK Here's where you can laugh. Look opposite the "Contents" page in Fantastic Beasts and you'll see who Ron says (predicts) Harry loves. Who is super-concentrated ghost Harry going to be with. HA. Moaning Murtle! After all, she's already offered to share her toilet and everything.

And don't think for a minute that there is any substance to this idea, but it still makes me grin.

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Catherine - Apr 8, 2004 11:31 am (#573 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Dumbly-dorr,

I had fun posting the "super-concentrated ghost" on the prophecy thread, and I wish I had thought to add Moaning Myrtle as Harry's toilet-mate! You've given me my first real chuckle of the day!

Cheers, Catherine

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Czarina - Apr 9, 2004 12:14 pm (#574 of 2916)

To completely change the subject, I'm of the opinion that Harry will not end up with Pansy. I think that Pansy will end up with Draco. There are many reasons why, the first being that they have been associated with one another since GoF. As well, Pansy is considered "pug-faced" by Harry and co., but that could merely be a reference to her scrunched up face in disapproval or snobbery. She might be pretty otherwise. The only time we actually see Narcissa Malfoy, she "would be beautiful" except that her nose was scrunched up in disgust. It is rather interesting that the two of them, Narcissa and Pansy, are described so similarly.

From Pansy's point of view, up until the end of OoP, there is nothing that Harry has that Draco hasn't. Draco would be her ideal choice: he is athletic, handsome (I think, doesn't it say that somewhere?), RICH, from a good family, a Slytherin like herself, pays attention to her, gives her elevated prestige within her House, etc. Since we have no idea how Draco treats her, except for his self-centred personality, he would make a good boyfriend for Pansy. She is probably rather self-centred herself, since she seems to enjoy the prestige she gets as his girlfriend. (Of course, she might not BE his girlfriend, in which case she is trying to impress him.)

Now, with Lucius in prison and Draco's reputation in question, Pansy might decide against him. Yet I doubt it. Draco will try in vain to hold on to his power within Slytherin House and so will Pansy. She would want to prove loyal to him if she were in love (the scenario makes perfect sense for 16-year-olds). The other Slytherinas might be less inclined to be bossed around and maybe join the DA, but not Pansy.

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dobbyiscool - Apr 9, 2004 12:27 pm (#575 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Sense Pansy is a Slythrin, she may actually find it an honor to be dating someone whose dad was arrested and is under suspicion for being involved with DE activities. It's like being killed in battle or something. The DE's that where arrested w/ Barty Crouch Jr. where fully prepared to go to jail for Lord Voldemort. He's like their god or something, if he says jump, they pull out the trampoline!

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Prefect Marcus - Apr 9, 2004 1:47 pm (#576 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Slytherin does not equal evil! What it does equal more than anything else is ambition to achieve your goals. The ends justify the means.

A good number of Slytherins, possibly including Pansy, might well decide next year that sucking up to Draco is a losing proposition and start to align themselves to a known winner, Harry Potter.

As the Slytherin Headmaster Phineas Nigellus told Harry, "We'll brave, but we're not foolhardy."

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Loopy Lupin - Apr 9, 2004 2:07 pm (#577 of 2916)

Well said Prefect. Being self-serving, self-absorbed, calculating, unaltruistic and just generally selfish is not evil. But, its not exactly "good" either is it?

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Czarina - Apr 9, 2004 6:37 pm (#578 of 2916)

And we come again to the basic principle: good and evil depend on your point of view.

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Mad Madame Mim - Apr 9, 2004 10:05 pm (#579 of 2916)

"Don't tell me you've never heard of the marvellous Madame Mim?"
"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so". - (Shakespeare, Hamlet 2:2)

"...the devil hath power T'assume a pleasing shape..." (Shakespeare, Hamlet 2:2)

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dobbyiscool - Apr 10, 2004 5:30 pm (#580 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
SORRY, I didn't mean that all Slytherins where evil. I am just saying, she hangs out with Draco Malfoy, and he practilly brags about his father being a DE. I am truly sorry if it sounded as though all Slitherins where pure evil.

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Czarina - Apr 10, 2004 7:22 pm (#581 of 2916)

Pansy might really admire the son of a wealthy Death Eater. Or maybe she just likes Draco and doesn't care a fig for what his family is like, so long as they're purebloods. I just think that she is rather eager to please him, no?

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Czarina - Apr 12, 2004 5:43 am (#582 of 2916)

Not that I'd like to use this thread as advertising space, but I started a fanfic on the FanFiction Forum that includes (or maybe alludes to) several 'ships.

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milti girl - Apr 25, 2004 12:59 am (#583 of 2916)

I think Pansy admires Draco for his "wit" and "humour". I think that even though she does follow his example in being mean to other people -- "Ugh, Chang, I don't think much of your taste..." she doesn't really mean it. She's just imitating Draco to keep him happy and to let every Slytherin girl know that she's with the most popular boy in the House. I get the feeling she doesn't really care whether Draco's famous for the right reasons or not -- just as long as people know him and can see her with him. It sounds very opportunistic, I know, but sometimes girls go out with popular guys just to be seen with them. But I do think hanging around so much with Draco has made her begin genuinely liking him. She probably doesn't even notice his faults and thinks they're virtues. Like she could read his meanness as "wit" or his painful sarcasm as "humour" and so on. And Draco...he laps up all the attention she gives him.

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Chris. - Apr 25, 2004 6:47 am (#584 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Milti girl, I don't think Pansy is acting the way she is, for Draco. I think I saw this on another thread about Pansy being Muggle-born, and making smart and 'evil' remarks just to cover her true blood.

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S.E. Jones - Apr 25, 2004 8:20 pm (#585 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I have to disagree with that, Kingsley, Pansy has apparently had a thing for Draco for some time now and I, for one, am quite surprised that we haven't heard of them openly dating (kind of makes you wonder what Narcissa might have to do with it, huh?). I noticed her preoccupation with Draco in the first book and you have instances, such as when Buckbeat attacks Draco, where Pansy worries over him and then later babies him more than a little, as someone's girlfriend would. There are plenty of other examples in the books.....

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Sherbie Lemon - Apr 25, 2004 8:28 pm (#586 of 2916)

Add to the list Draco taking Pansy to the Yule Ball: "Malfoy was in front...Pansy Parkinson in very frilly robes of pale pink was clutching Malfoy's arm."
Perhaps they are dating, but because they're in Slytherin we hear little about their social lives.

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S.E. Jones - Apr 25, 2004 8:51 pm (#587 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Still, you'd think we'd at least get a passing mention, if they were already dating, that is.

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Fawkes Forever - Apr 26, 2004 2:42 am (#588 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I think it boils down to what Harry is interested in.... I don't think he particuarly cares if Draco & Pansy are dating, so we don't hear any mention of it.... unless Hermione mentions it some time in the future..... like the way she dropped the 'bombshell' about Ginny & Michael.

Perhaps they are dating, but Draco isn't too public about it.... keeping an eye out for the next girl Ok so I'm kind of joking here .... but you know what I'm saying! Then again, is the twitchy little ferret capable of caring about anyone other than himself?

Talking of ships.... I don't know if I'm allowed to mention the film here... but did anyone notice in the PoA trailer.... Hermione & Ron's almost hand grasp *grabs spoon to stir the pot* Hmmm, I wonder what they're hinting at .... hee hee, sorry, just had to mention that!

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Star Crossed - Apr 26, 2004 3:39 am (#589 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Whaaaaaaaat?! In my lamentations about the pink hoodie of DOOM and Harry clutching Hermione, I must have missed this. When is it? What happens? What scene does it *seem* to be?

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Fawkes Forever - Apr 26, 2004 5:19 am (#590 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Sorry, I didn't to perturb you Aly....

If you look at the latest trailer for PoA... just after the KnightBus incident... we hear Stan Shunpike (I think) saying... 'He's a murderer'... it flicks to (again I'm guessing) a Care of Magical Creatures class. Hermione gasps at something (BuckBeak perhaps) & jumps back in shock, reaching for Rons wrist at the same time. Then after realising what has just happened, they both look at one another for a second or two, & she lets go... looking a bit disgusted with herself, whilst Ron looks around to make sure noone else noticed and he looks a tad embarrased! It's quite sweet really!

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Star Crossed - Apr 26, 2004 2:59 pm (#591 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Alas, I don't think I saw the latest trailer. After I posted, I think I saw a picture of it, at least, it looked like she was grabbing at his wrist and I squeed.

38 more days...

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draco all the way - Apr 27, 2004 10:55 pm (#592 of 2916)

Ships that I sail Ron/Hermione because-well just read the books you'll understand.

Harry/Luna because he finds it easier to talk to Luna than anyone else after Sirius' death. So on some subconscious level he must like her.

And finally Draco/Ginny- Yes, I know you think I'm shallow. And yes,I understand there's practically no proof or clues of this happening in the canon. But I'm 15 and I'm a girl. Need I say more?

Plus, I think I've been reading far too much fanfiction for my own good.

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Chris. - May 4, 2004 3:07 am (#593 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Harry and Luna... I can't see it. Yes, he does feel better after talking to Luna but I think she's a bit too weird for him.

Here's a vote for you 'shippers!

For Harry:

A. Ginny B. Hermione C. Cho D. Someone else (State who) E. No-one

For Ron:

A. Hermione B. Cho C. Pansy P D. Fleur E. Someone else (S.W.) F. No-one

For Hermione:

A. Krum B. Ron C. Harry D. Draco E. Someone else (S.W.) F. No-one

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Star Crossed - May 4, 2004 3:35 am (#594 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
For Harry:

D. Daphne Greengrass

For Ron:

A. Hermione

For Hermione:

B. Ron

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Kathryn Pottinger - May 4, 2004 3:51 am (#595 of 2916)

For Harry: B-Hermione

For Ron: E-someone else(but no idea who) or F-Noone

For Hermione: C-Harry

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Sherbie Lemon - May 4, 2004 6:28 am (#596 of 2916)

How about Neville and Luna?

My top vote will always be for Ron and Hermione; it's getting more and more obvious and I can't wait until they finally just get together!

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Catherine - May 4, 2004 6:43 am (#597 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I'm all for Ron and Hermione, but I could see Cho and Ron, too. They seemed so snippy with each other in OoP and they both play Quidditch. Plus, Ron resents Michael Corner because he went out with Ginny, so I could see that Cho would seem more desirable because she's with Michael now. Also, that would make for an interesting issue between Ron and Harry.

I could also see Cho ending up with Viktor Krum. Ron has made comments about Viktor being "grouchy" and Cho needing to be "more cheerful." It would be amusing if these two rays of sunshine ended up with each other! Cho has already had a habit of dating seekers (Cedric and Harry) so Krum would fit right into her pattern. This might be a real stretch, but I keep thinking of the birds that flew out of Krum's wand during the Weighing in GoF, and Cho's Patronus is a swan. Krum is always described in duck-like terms. Could Cho and Krum be birds of a feather?

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Julia. - May 4, 2004 7:47 am (#598 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
For Harry, A, Ginny, and for Ron, A, Hermione. And, just to illiustrate my points, I will put in some fan art. The first one is by Lisa Rourke. The second one is by Marta T.


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tracie1976 - May 4, 2004 8:35 am (#599 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
My vote: Harry and Hermione and if Ron is lucky enough to live ..Luna.

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Padfoot - May 4, 2004 10:05 am (#600 of 2916)

Julia, is that supposed to be Harry in the first picture? LOL.

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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:56 am

Hagsquid - May 4, 2004 10:45 am (#601 of 2916)
This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Edited by May 4, 2004 10:46 am
Harry and Ginny.
Ron and Hermoine.
Neville and Luna.
Draco and Pansy Parkinson. (I've been convinced of this since I first read PoA.)
Krum and a tombstone. (I'm sorry to any Krum fans, but if he doesn't kick the bucket before this is over, I'll be seriously disappointed with JKR.)
Hagrid and Olympe.
Tonks and Lupin.
Sirius and Umbridge. (Heh... yes, I kid)

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Julia. - May 4, 2004 11:45 am (#602 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Yes Padfoot, it is Harry, see, Ginny's kidnapped his glasses and her forehead is hiding his scar.

*agrees with Hagsquid on all except the last one*...Umbridge and a dememtor

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Acceber - May 4, 2004 12:03 pm (#603 of 2916)

Ruler of Omeletteheads
~*agrees with Julia, but would like to add Bill + Fleur and Percy + Penelope*~

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Star Crossed - May 4, 2004 12:10 pm (#604 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
//agrees with Star Crossed and throws in Snape and Sinistra//

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Hagsquid - May 4, 2004 12:12 pm (#605 of 2916)

This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Star Crossed... can we assume that you're agreeing with Acceber, or are you really agreeing with yourself... not that that's a bad thing.

I definately agree with Bill + Fleur, and Percy + Penelope. Snape and Sinistra is one I hadn't considered. Works for me. Smile

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Star Crossed - May 4, 2004 12:13 pm (#606 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I really am. Wink

I love Snape/Sinistra just as much as Ron/Hermione.

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Hagsquid - May 4, 2004 12:19 pm (#607 of 2916)

This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
In that picture of Harry and Ginny... is Ginny wearing her wedding ring on the wrong hand, or is that how it's done in the UK? Or just in the WW?

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SarcasticGinny - May 4, 2004 5:45 pm (#608 of 2916)

Ginny or no one for Harry. Ginny is sassy and Harry needs the kick in the youknowwhat that only seems to work when given by her.

If he's alone that'd be okay too. Sirius is a bachelor. Dumbledore is a bachelor. Maybe Harry will be like those guys and just be a "seeker" his whole life, but I doubt it.

Ron and Hermione. Neville and Luna or if Harry goes solo, Neville and Ginny.

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Prefect Marcus - May 4, 2004 6:17 pm (#609 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"

Harry and Pansy
Ron and Luna
Victor and Hermione.

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Weeny Owl - May 4, 2004 8:19 pm (#610 of 2916)

Harry and Ginny

Ron and Hermione

Neville and Luna

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Mrs. Sirius - May 4, 2004 9:51 pm (#611 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I agree with Hagsquid, except of course for my dear Sirius with that old bat!

However, someone recently threw so cold potion on the Harry and Ginny 'ship, supposedly quoting JKR saying we have not yet met the mate with whom Harry will end up. That post did note cite a source so until I see the quote myself, I remain convinced that it is Harry and Ginny. If anyone has seen JKR quoted on this please post a cite.

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S.E. Jones - May 4, 2004 10:36 pm (#612 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I think I saw some discussion about that somewhere but I can't find it with the search function (it may have been eaten by the auto-muncher). I think the quote they were using in the discussion was this one (though I can't quite remember how they had turned it around for their argument):

World Day, March 4, 2004:
hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sight*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

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Star Crossed - May 5, 2004 3:55 am (#613 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No, that's not the quote. I heard it, too, those exact words. I believe I saw it on a website. Excuse me while I search.

Hn. My search ended fruitlessly. Maybe this was all a rumour. Gah. Must know. Darn you, evil school! When I get home, I'm doing a total search and you cannot stop me! *evil laugh*

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coolbeans3131 - May 5, 2004 3:56 am (#614 of 2916)

Harry/Hermione

Ron/Luna

Neville/Ginny

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Denise P. - May 5, 2004 6:08 am (#615 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I am pretty sure that the quote in question, about Harry and the mystery girl, has been posted here on the Forum. I am looking for it...about how we have not seen Harry with who he will end up with.

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Padfoot - May 5, 2004 8:00 am (#616 of 2916)

I am not really a 'shipper. However I saw a picture posted today at The Leaky Cauldron where it looks like Harry is hugging Hermione. It says he is protecting her, but it looks different to me. Anyway, thought I would throw that out there.

For my two knuts worth: Hermione + Ron, Harry + ?, Ginny + Neville.

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Miréimé - May 5, 2004 9:13 am (#617 of 2916)

Tomoé's only twin sister ^_~
I think this is the quote you were looking for (from an interview made a few days before OoP released):

JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?

JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.

JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?

JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.

IMO, Hermione will end up with Ron. Ginny with Draco (but after he changes à la James Potter). Harry with someone from another house, a Hufflepuff or a Ravenclaw, so we can meet new people. ^_^ But it won't last since i'm convinced Harry will die has the seventh book dies.

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Hagsquid - May 5, 2004 11:30 am (#618 of 2916)

This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Maybe the "one thing" she's reffering to is about one of the teachers. It's certainly a subject which we only skirt, and it could be very important to the plot line. (eg, Snape and some girl to whom his love would give DD good reason to trust him.)

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tracie1976 - May 5, 2004 1:01 pm (#619 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Ok, I'm not sure if this goes in this thread or not but yell at me if it does

I found that the hippogriff is the symbol of love . Now Hermione and Harry are the only couple that we know of who has been alone with Buckbeak ie: noone else around. In PoA, Hermione and Harry fly Buckbeak on their way to rescue Sirius. In OotP, Harry is alone in the room with Buckbeak at Christmas time and Hermione not only gets Harry to open the door but gets him to come out of the room and talk.

Now, could this be one of those clues that hints a H/Hr relationship?

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Star Crossed - May 5, 2004 1:06 pm (#620 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nice connection, but still, I'm totally for R/Hr. Too many clues for that. Razz

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dobbyiscool - May 5, 2004 1:56 pm (#621 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I like Ron and Hermione's 'ship. As for the pic. where Harry is hugging Hermy, friends hug eachother with out any reason outside of friendship. Espicially if someone is upset for whatever reason, then they might earn a hug from someone who is just thier friend, not their boyfriend/girlfriend.

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Padfoot - May 5, 2004 2:02 pm (#622 of 2916)

I know, dobbyiscool. Here is the picture I was talking about.

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Molly Weasly Wannabe - May 5, 2004 2:07 pm (#623 of 2916)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE the theory Tracie. I am so for the Harry/Hermonie ship ship. Even if they don't stay together, I really think they will date one another a few times.

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dobbyiscool - May 5, 2004 2:20 pm (#624 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Yeah, to me, it looks like they just went through some sort of ordeal, so that would be a good cause for Hermione to need a hug. It looks like she's crying, so Harry is trying to comfort a friend. Thanks for putting the pic. up, padfoot.

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S.E. Jones - May 5, 2004 2:25 pm (#625 of 2916)

Let it snow!
tracie1976: I found that the hippogriff is the symbol of love .

They're also a symbol for the impossible. See gryffins eat horses, as a rule, in most all legends, and so horses are deathly afraid of them, thus a hippogriff was suppossed to be a creature that was impossible to come by. There's a saying that goes way back through the Middle Ages, possibly further to Ancient Roman times, if something was impossible, you'd say "It's like gryffins and horses." It's akin to our modern saying of "it's like mixing water and oil."

EDIT: I think I found the actual saying: "Jungentur jam grypes equis" which means "To cross griffons with horses", indicating an impossible scenario.

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Star Crossed - May 5, 2004 2:50 pm (#626 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
What a contradiction.

And yes, friends do hug each other a lot. Why, my friend Nick hugged me today. Could be because he almost made me fall (And then five minutes later he did. Razz). Doesn't mean he likes me as a boyfriend would, he just was being nice.

But, so help me Merlin, if they took out that hug Hermione gives Ron after they said they'll help her with saving Buckbeak, I shall scream in the theatre. According to mugglenet's pictures, it doesn't even look like they ever fought.

But that's off topic, so ignore me. Very Happy

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Brandon Christopher - May 5, 2004 3:01 pm (#627 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
So JKR has never had anything impossible done in the books guys? After you posted that SE it just makes me more convinced of an H/Hr ship. How JKR would it be to have the symbol of love between two best friends be something that represents impossibilities. That seems like exactly something that she would do

And as for Aly's comment earlier "I'm totally for R/Hr. Too many clues for that." Well there's many clues for quite a few ships, including H/Hr. Keep in mind that this is JKR - so most likely the most obvious thing will not happen. If she throws Ron and Hermione together I won't necessarily be disapointed in the event of that happening. I will however be disapointed with her poor writing skills if she sets us up so obviously. The key to a great story is surprise, R/Hr would hardly be one. It would be going against her whole style of writing to give us something so obvious and then go with it. Personally I expect more from her in this stage of the game.

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Star Crossed - May 5, 2004 3:05 pm (#628 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, if that comment about Harry will end up with someone no one has guessed, that kind of does ruin Harry/Hermione, since many people guess he will be with Hermione, and a lot think he will end up with Ginny. So both of those will be gone.

But so I don't get very upset (And turn into that lovely smiley you sent me over MSN that reminds me of Prince Dauntless), there is a lot of clues for a lot of ships. Like Snape/Sinistra. *goes off to read Lamentations of a Starry-Eyed Twit*. Mwah. Fear it. Best Snape/Sinistra fic that even shows proof.

I think we should ring up JK and say we're a cute little boy with a very cute face and ask who HRH will hook up with.

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tracie1976 - May 5, 2004 4:08 pm (#629 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
:quote Star Crossed: Well, if that comment about Harry will end up with someone no one has guessed, that kind of does ruin Harry/Hermione, .....

What if she said that he will end up with someone else which could be refering to Cho Chang, which he had a crush on since 3rd year, I do believe. And we do know that Harry and Cho do not work out.

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S.E. Jones - May 5, 2004 4:45 pm (#630 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't think that works, tracie, the quote is, "And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ...". So no-one's ever guess who he's going to end up with. We've already guessed Harry+Cho and Harry+Ginny and Harry+Hermione, and have been guessing them for awhile now, so it can be either of them, based on the quote. Would Luna fit in to that, though, since she was pretty much non-existant prior to OotP and that interview was just prior to OotP's release? Could she be a possibility? Who else?

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SarcasticGinny - May 5, 2004 4:48 pm (#631 of 2916)

Does a writer need to "twist" everything about the ending to be a good writer? I figure if the central plot (good vs. evil battle/war) is thrilling enough, JKR won't be an obvious writer just by putting Ron and Hermione together. We all knew Leia and Han were going to get together in Star Wars, but it's still a classic. :-)

Also-In that Harry/Hermione picture, am I the only one who thinks she looks unconcious?

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Star Crossed - May 5, 2004 4:51 pm (#632 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think she'd be lying the other way if she was, but she could very well be. Or she could be hiding in his shoulder. I saw a pic of that with Ron, too. And a wrist grabbing. And a hand grabbing. Jeez that girl is getting around in PoA. Wink

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haymoni - May 5, 2004 5:32 pm (#633 of 2916)

The card that shows the Trio where Hermione is hanging onto Ron seems to be the scene where they think Buckbeak has been killed. Hermione is upset and turns to Ron, NOT Harry.

I think the card where we see Hermione & Harry is when the dementors attack and yes, I think Hermione is a bit out of it myself.

I'm all for Ron & Hermione and I'm with Prefect Marcus on Harry & Pansy.

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Miréimé - May 5, 2004 5:38 pm (#634 of 2916)

Tomoé's only twin sister ^_~
I'm pretty sure Hermione fainted. Harry is holding her, but she isn't hugging him back (her left arm is hanging).

Back to the quote, here's my interpretation :

JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories [theories about what's next, not only about ships]... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close [to the main big twist]. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all [the main big twist, not who's going to be with Harry]. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this [the main big twist] will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.

That's how I see it anyway, but I can be wrong. It won't be the first time. ^_~

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Julia. - May 5, 2004 6:13 pm (#635 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Um, am I the only one who sees that nowhere in there does she say that she's refering to ships? How do we know that the "one thing that if anyone guessed I would be reallyl annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all" is a ship? JKR has a history for not answering questions, and I think this is one of those times. In my book, all the clues point to Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny. That quote doesn't do a thing for me.

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Star Crossed - May 5, 2004 6:40 pm (#636 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I was talking about a different quote.

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haymoni - May 5, 2004 6:53 pm (#637 of 2916)

Go to the Vote thread and vote on your favorite 'ships.

No discussions - just vote!

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S.E. Jones - May 5, 2004 7:05 pm (#638 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I think everyone infers she's referring to 'ships there because they were just discussing 'shipping just prior to her saying that and not other fan theories. Before that they're discussing the trend in children's stories of the main characters never aging....

Here's Mireime's post #617 where she gives a few lines before the quote.

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Miréimé - May 5, 2004 7:58 pm (#639 of 2916)

Tomoé's only twin sister ^_~
The whole interview is right there [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3004594.stm].

That link was given by Prefect Marcus in the "Harry's 'ship uniting the houses" thread. But if you got another quote, Star Crossed, I hope you'll find it back.

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Czarina II - May 5, 2004 10:37 pm (#640 of 2916)

JKR loves to trick her fans. And we know that in interviews, she often thinks off the top of her head (Bill and Charlie's ages, anyone? :-) ), so it is perfectly logical that any quote regarding Harry's eventual girlfriend was simply a mistake or an exaggeration. Or possibly tongue-in-cheek?

We probably won't find out until the last chapter of Bk7...(sigh)

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Fawkes Forever - May 6, 2004 3:42 am (#641 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Oh thats gonna be some chapter....

I agree in that the quote has been taken out of context. I also believe that JK is talking about a twist, the crux of the entire story & not necessarily any 'ships.

Ok, I've been studying the two shots from the movie... that both shipping camps have taken as evidence for each cause. The Harry Hermione hug (posted by Padfoot on post 622) & the Hermione Ron hug here (sorry it's a bit too big to place in a post)

Disclaimer... remember this is just my opinion folks... so feel free to disagree... just no flame throwing or rotten tomatoes please

Ok, the Harry Hermione hug. From what I can see.... Hermione is faced away from Harry... so it's not so much of an embrace as it is protective or supportive, she also does not appear to be reciprocating in any way... however it is a still photo, so we don't know what lead up to this moment. I'm guessing this is during the dementor attack when Hermione faints (well shes at least cowering here) & Harry is trying to protect her!

The Hermione Ron hug is different.... well in the fact that Hermione, (obviously upset about something - Buckbeak methinks) is hugging (leaning) into Ron, with Harry placing a comforting arm on hers to make sure shes ok. Note that shes upset & looking to Ron for solace. Unfortunately we can't see if Ron is hugging her back.... perhaps he should have patted her head This hug might also replace the hug in the book where Hermione breaks down & cries into Rons shoulder! (this hug can also be seen in the French Trailer on MuggleNet)

Whether these pictures point towards certain ships or not... I'm not sure... perhaps the movie guys are having way too much fun messing with our brains, what with the R/H 'non hug' in CoS & the 'holding hands' bit in the PoA trailer & throwing in a H/H hug just for good measure Personally I'm leaning towards Ron & Hermione.... but lets just wait & see

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draco all the way - May 6, 2004 9:25 am (#642 of 2916)

O.K here's what I say: Ron/Hermione- though it is very obvious and J.K.R is the goddess of twist it seems a bit unlikely. BUT with OotP we see that J.K.R is not the best when it comes to romance. No I didn't mean that-don't kill me! What I mean is that J.K.R doesn't seem to consider ships all important- only fanfics do. So I'm guessing that the plot will definitely be twisty but the ships will more or else be what we expect.

Draco/ginny- first of, it is a really silly ship which comesof reading too much fanfiction but , hey, I'm 15. But remember the World Book Day Chat? She says: "will draco and hermione end up together?NO!" Nothing uncertain in that! By the way she answered you can tell that she think this ship is completely and totalyy INSANE because she almost never answers with a clean 'yes' or 'no'. But, notice how she doesn't say Draco will never be with a gryff. It seems to be that she doesn't think this idea so crazy or she would of dismissed that as well. The person didn't even ask about ships just about her plans for Draco, but she goes on to talk about the D/HR ship. But, notice how she stops just there? Why didn't she just go o to say how Draco could NEVER be with a gryff? Why? Because he IS going to end up with a gryff- and who's left? Ginny, of course! I rest my case. Did that make any sense?

Finally, Harry and Luna because Luna's got to be important- they gave her a whole chapter and she kept popping up in all sorts of places. She tells him about the threstals, she is the first Hogwarts student to give her support to Harry, she also hears voices in the veil, and though I've said it before Harry seems to be able to talk to her easily about his loss. To me, it seems like Luna's been given all this undue attention so she must serve a greater purpose. Maybe not shipwise but we'll see!

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Anna Katarina - May 6, 2004 9:48 am (#643 of 2916)

My opinion is (and feel free to disagree. I'm usually too much a romantic for my own good) that there's NO WAY that Ginny would ever date Draco. There are other Gryffindor females that might (Lavender and Parvati) but NEVER Ginny. She is far too strong and independent to ever do that. *Deep breath*

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S.E. Jones - May 6, 2004 10:50 am (#644 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Here's the scene from the French trailer you were referring to, Fawkes Forever.

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Padfoot - May 6, 2004 1:05 pm (#645 of 2916)

'Shipping is certainly getting attention this week! To me, both the movies and the books are hinting at Ron + Hermione. I still can't explain that picture I posted with Harry and Hermione. But the fainting theory is as good as any I suppose.

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Star Crossed - May 6, 2004 3:23 pm (#646 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I just think it's odd the way she fainted. I would expect her to faint the other way. That's how I usually faint. But maybe she was trying to hide herself in Harry (Like she did with Ron) and she just fainted. Or maybe she just fainted and then Harry picked her up to protect her. 28 days!

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S.E. Jones - May 6, 2004 5:08 pm (#647 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Edited May 6, 2004 5:53 pm
How often do you faint? Just curious because I don't think I've ever really fainted (almost did a few times) and I've even had medical problems that have been bringing on boughts of lightheadedness, dizziness, etc... Is it common for people to faint in their everyday lives? Can someone give me an answer over on the Chat thread? I'd appreciate it....

Back to 'shipping though. If that scene were the same as this scene (which was supposed to be where they meet the Dementors, which is what they're supposed to be looking at with those frightened looks on their faces, poor things), then it makes sense that she might've passed out while clutching at Harry in terror, thus ending like this. It does kind of look like she just kind of fell over from where she was positioned in that first picture.

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Star Crossed - May 6, 2004 5:31 pm (#648 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, I fainted once, and almost fainted once. When I did faint, I was singing in a choir and I fell backwards (And was caught. Thank Merlin I was on the lowest part. If I was in the back, I would have fallen a good three feet. And when I almost fainted, I had just broken my clavical. Two people were trying to get me into a who-know's-what, but I started spinning and my eyes kind of fell into the back of my skull. I had to focus my every thought on not fainting. But I was leaning backwards, so if I fainted, I would have fainted backwards.

That seems logical to me. Or maybe she just don't know how to faint properly. Wink

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dobbyiscool - May 6, 2004 5:40 pm (#649 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Well, maybe she is clinging in fear, and then fainted or something. I know when I've fainted, I did fall forward and to the side, so Hermy could have done that.

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S.E. Jones - May 6, 2004 5:55 pm (#650 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Here's an explanation for the first pic I posted and I really am thinking that the second one is just her passing out and falling over in his arms, or maybe she's just hiding her head. (By the way, I updated my earlier post with a better scan of the second pic.)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:58 am

draco all the way - May 6, 2004 8:08 pm (#651 of 2916)
Yeah, I guess Anna, but I really don't fee that Lavender or Parvati are that important at all. Ginny's getting far more importance eversince OotP so it seems to me that she would get Draco because if he was ever redeemed it would be BIG news. Not just a side story but something HUGE! So after the redemption he'd be a major character. ANd the major guys always get the major girls- make sense?And the only girl left over is Ginny! Also Ginny's strength and indepence will be necessary if she were ever to date Draco because I'm fairly certain her parents wouldn't approve.

Also, I dont think the movies are good clues to whats coming next because the director is just as unaware as we are. Probably more so!

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S.E. Jones - May 6, 2004 8:15 pm (#652 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Yes, but did the director really give us the scenes we're seeing or did they come from the script? The scriptwriter, Kloves, does work with JKR and she has said she's given him more than she's given anyone else (CoS DVD interview, I think).....

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Ladybug220 - May 6, 2004 8:16 pm (#653 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by May 6, 2004 8:18 pm
Sarah, I am with you. I took it (the picture of her facing the ground) to be when the dementors were close by and Harry was there to catch her so she won't fall. In the book she passes out before Harry does.

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Miréimé - May 7, 2004 11:12 am (#654 of 2916)

Tomoé's only twin sister ^_~
Back to who's going to end up with Ginny, let's just look to the "Ginny date/boyfriend pattern". Here are all her dating we know about in chronological order :

Ginny & Neuville Longbottom -> Ron's reaction -> Neutral
Ginny & Michael Crevey -> Ron's reation -> Not pleased
Ginny & Dean Thomas -> Ron's reaction -> Not pleased at all

Now, let's see the potential reations caused by the following pairings :

Ginny & Harry Potter -> Ron's reaction -> So pleased he could kiss Crookshanks
Ginny & Neuville Longbottom -> Ron's reaction -> Neutral
Ginny & Viktor Krum -> Ron's reation -> Neutral
Ginny & Draco Malfoy -> Ron's reaction -> Nervous shock

According to the previous pattern, it seems to me that JKR is leading us to a Ginny & Draco ending. Now, clues or red herrings? ^_~

P.-S. : If someone got the quote of Ron's reation for each past date, it would be helpful, I don't have the book handly.

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Padfoot - May 7, 2004 12:20 pm (#655 of 2916)

Miréimé, I think Ginny went out with Michael Corner (wasn't that his name?) not a Crevey brother. Ron has hinted to Ginny that he would like to see her with Harry. But I almost wonder if he would really like that if it happened. He seems to be the protective brother type. So he could change his mind.

I still think that if the group of 6 sill are close in the coming books, Ginny will see Neville more assertive and grow to like him more. Then again, Ginny and Draco and Harry and Pansy might actually happen.

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Star Crossed - May 7, 2004 12:23 pm (#656 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes, it is Corner, not Creevy. I remember because I wrote a poem with his name in it. Very Happy I think Ron would like Harry to go out with Ginny because he knows Harry, and knows Harry wouldn't hurt her. I'm the same way with my friends. If one of my friends dates someone I don't know, I get really angry, and try to find someone better for them (Instead of getting to know her/his boyfriend/girlfriend better.)

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Miréimé - May 7, 2004 1:13 pm (#657 of 2916)

Tomoé's only twin sister ^_~
My mistake, wrong guy! ^_~ Thanks to point it out!

But I'm with star crossed. Ron wants to protect Ginny, but since he will probably be stuck with a brother-in-law, better if it's Harry. ^_~

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tracie1976 - May 7, 2004 2:20 pm (#658 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Way I'm thinking, Ron seems to want the best that money can buy and nothing that he has is good enough...and who else has that kind of money besides Malfoy? Harry. Of course he'd want his only sister to marry/date Harry to get to part of Harry's fortune especially if Harry gets Sirius's estate too.

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Padfoot - May 7, 2004 2:40 pm (#659 of 2916)

I doubt Ron is thinking of Harry's money when he hints that he want Ginny and Harry to date. Besides, Ron is proud of his new broom, even though it isn't a firebolt.

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Robert Dierken - May 7, 2004 3:08 pm (#660 of 2916)

Comment on post #549:

Hermione is actually at least the fifth young witch to kiss Harry, and Cho is at least the sixth.

Angelina, Alicia and Katie kissed Harry in PoA when they win the Quidditch Cup, and Fleur kissed him in GoF after he has rescued Gabrielle.

As for Ron, Fleur kissed him in GoF, and Hermione did in OoP. And he may also have been kissed by the three chasers after Ginny beat Cho to the snitch, but Harry and Hermione weren't there, so we don't know.

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Robert Dierken - May 7, 2004 3:13 pm (#661 of 2916)

Another outrageous relationship theory:

How about Millicent Bulstrode and Dudley Dursley?

(Well, they are both good at wrestling!)

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Hagsquid - May 7, 2004 3:18 pm (#662 of 2916)

This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Isn't Dudley a boxer? :-P

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Padfoot - May 7, 2004 3:28 pm (#663 of 2916)

Edited by May 7, 2004 3:28 pm
Boxing, wrestling... what's the difference? Actually both are contact sports that need no magic. Milly and Dudders would look good together.

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Ceilti O'Cahill - May 8, 2004 1:08 pm (#664 of 2916)

Rwsearch Archivist/Student
Edited by Denise P. May 8, 2004 1:22 pm
Hello,

This is a bit off topic I think, although I haven't had time to read all the posts about Hermione.

I think that all other things aside, Hemoione is meant for Harry!

Look how well they work together when the chips are down. Harry usually defers to her judgement in a crisis. What other boy could Hermoione be interested in? I just don't see her with Victor, but I hope they remain friends, and the same goes for Ron.

I'm noy talking about the present necessarily, but in the future for esample in their seventh year when Harry has matured and Hermione knows herself a bit better, and that knowledge and books aren't everything. I think that Harry is the only boy Hermione respects.

What a most felicitous couple!

Ceilti

Edit I moved this from the Hermione Granger thread. Denise P

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Molly Weasly Wannabe - May 8, 2004 3:04 pm (#665 of 2916)

I couldn't of said it better myself!!!

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tracie1976 - May 8, 2004 3:18 pm (#666 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Ceilti. Exactly what I've thought over and over again.

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coolbeans3131 - May 8, 2004 6:22 pm (#667 of 2916)

I agree Ceilti. I think something is going to happen in book 6 to suddenly make Harry realize how he feels about Hermione (I think she already knows how she feels about Harry). I know most here don't agree with this, but H/H are obvious to me when I read the books. Hurry up JKR, so we can get some answers!

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Ceilti O'Cahill - May 8, 2004 6:54 pm (#668 of 2916)

Rwsearch Archivist/Student
CoolBeans3131

I couln't agree more. I hope it happens in book six. I also believe that Hermione know how she felt about Harry at least since book three.I think she is is biding her time until Harry matures, and she must be aware that he is mostly clueless about girls!

Regards,

Ceilti

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Devika - May 8, 2004 8:13 pm (#669 of 2916)

I don't agree with the Harry Hermione ship. Apart from the fact that there are innumerable clues that point to Ron Hermione, there are reasons why H/H isn't likely. While this is a debatable point, in my opinion there is no tension between them to warrant any such speculation. This is a ship that to me seems to be based purely on their chemistry as very good friends. They lean on each other for support ,share an excellent rapport, respect each other... but then Harry also respects Dumbledore. I know that's a really stupid analogy, but my point is that they are in a perfect relationship for friends, but that extra spark, which I think characterises a potential ship is missing. I know it can be argued that you need more than just tension for a real successful relationship. In my opinion, H/R have that base of understanding and trsut too, and in a strange way they can balance out each other's negatives and I think they really complement each other. Another very stupid argument is that H/H is too perfect. What I mean is that it's just too sugary and perfect to see the brave hero end up with his best friend who is a brilliant witch and a great companion. R/H is much more realistic... the girl falling for the hero's best friend and not the hero himself. I think that Harry and Hermione will always remain soulmates but will never become partners. Another reason why I don't see this ship as very likely is the number of clues pointing to the R/H ship. I know it's been said before, but what I'm saying is that ships are obviously not a crucial aspect to the main plot, and I can't see JKR laying so many blatant clues just to provide a sensational twist at the end for an aspect that doesn't even mean so much for the story. As for the movies, I think JKR would scream at the little hints that are all over if she didn't really intend this ship to happen. As far as I understand, the director and scripwriter get a lot of inputs from her about the direction of the story and if this wasn't going to happen I don't see how she would not have objected to such a scene (like the end of PS).

As for Harry... I think there's a strong chance that he might not end up with anyone. I think he might find another date or two in the coming books but I can't really see anything real about it. I mean he's got a lot going on in his life. Luna it seems is penetrating that little cordon that he builds around his emotional self, but she's too wierd for him. And as much as I looovvve to reda Harry Ginny fanfics, there is actually no canon proof for that. It's like she's the next perfect candidate for him after Hermione (who's taken by Ron). What I think is a possibility is that we might never meet Harry's girl and we may just hear of her in the epilogue.

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Weeny Owl - May 8, 2004 8:20 pm (#670 of 2916)

If the JKR statement posted earlier is actually about a relationship that is key to the books, perhaps it's who Tom Riddle, Jr.'s mother is. We've never been told her name.

I don't see Harry and Hermione in a romantic relationship. They're too much like brother and sister.

Hermione detested Fleur when she kissed Ron and Ron was fuming over Viktor Krum. I also think Ron giving Hermione perfume is significant. I see them not quite sure how to go about a relationship which is why they argue so much. Once they finally acknowledge their feelings, I think they'll settle down and fight less.

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dobbyiscool - May 8, 2004 8:23 pm (#671 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I agree. Ron and Hermy are fated to be together.

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Star Crossed - May 8, 2004 9:11 pm (#672 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Allow me to show I have read only book three in the Narnia series. Wink Ron and Hermione remind me a lot like the two children in the third novel (I'm awful at names and I gave the book back to my friend, sorry!). They meet unintentionally, by Fate they are brought together, she thinks she is above him, they fight, he saves her life, they fight more, they get married, they fight even more. Dunno, that's something I picked up while I was reading the book.

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dobbyiscool - May 8, 2004 9:28 pm (#673 of 2916)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I don't remember the children's names either, Star Crossed, but I do rememeber there was a line that said that they fought so well the desided to get married so they could do it all the time or something like that. True, they sort of remind me of Ron and Hermione

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Brandon Christopher - May 9, 2004 3:55 am (#674 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
How very cliche of Rowling - stick the two kids that always fight together...

I will say it until it does or does not happen, R/Hr will pull JKR's writing down a notch or two. I respect her too much to say that she would give us something so obvious. I can say it until my face is red but she is a much more skilled writer that that. Rowling has stayed away from cliche's so far and for her to throw such a huge one in now would completely undermine everything she's been doing since PS/SS.

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Sherbie Lemon - May 9, 2004 6:37 am (#675 of 2916)

I believe that there is absolutely no question about who Hermione will end up with, and that person is Ron. JKR has been dropping hints about this ship since CoS. And I totally disagree that her writing will be pulled "down a notch or two." Of all the hidden meanings and deceptions and treachery that goes on in these books, I find that an expected ship will be a nice change. Some things in this series should be simple, or as simple as relationships can be.

On a related note, Rupert Grint and Emma Watson gave an interview for LA Times. Here's a bit I found interesting.
"Grint agrees that the new film offers more scope. 'There's a story line developing between Ron and Hermione,' he reflects.

'It's like a little thing going on between them, and there's a lot of awkward moments in this third one. A few hugs. And we fall out a lot as well.'

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tracie1976 - May 9, 2004 7:25 am (#676 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Just out of curiosity, why did JK split the six who went to the DoM into Harry, Hermione, and Neville then Ginny, Luna, and Ron. Wouldn't it have been a little more dramatic for the H/G shippers to see Harry save Ginny from the AK curse than if he saved Hermione for the AK curse? Or panic if Ginny got hit by the one curse from Antonin Dolohov? Harry practically stopped thinking when Hermione got hit by that curse until Neville said that Hermione had a pulse. Also notice that Harry didn't react like that when Luna got thrown across some desks when they were all locking the doors in that one room.
Ok enough rambling

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Chris. - May 9, 2004 8:05 am (#677 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think JKR wants us to notice relationships that are going to happen, except Ron and Hermione which we have all seen... well, maybe not the H/Hr 'shippers.

Didn't JKR say something about the 'ships not being obvious?

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Anna Katarina - May 9, 2004 9:10 am (#678 of 2916)

Of course Harry would get very distressed by Hermione being hit by that curse. She is his friend after all. Luna isn't by far as close to Harry's heart as Hermione is.

"Wouldn't it have been a little more dramatic for the H/G shippers to see Harry save Ginny from the AK curse than if he saved Hermione for the AK curse?" --tracie1976

As Kingsley said, JKR isn't exactly known for pointing at the point. If Harry and Hermione get together after him saving her for the 100th time, it's just a little bit too 'Me, Tarzan. You, Jane.' in my book. I like the tiny hints that she put in there that point to Ginny. (The 'smal things are powerful too' one being my favorite) But again when it all boils down to it... JKR isn't a 'shipper'. I'm sure/hope/think we will love it no matter how it ends...

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tracie1976 - May 9, 2004 9:15 am (#679 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
kingsley: Didn't JKR say something about the 'ships not being obvious?


So since Harry wasn't that worried about Luna, that means a Luna/Harry ship?
I'm so trying to see from different perspectives for the ships...but it just isn't working, therefore my questions about certain parts of the books.

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Star Crossed - May 9, 2004 9:33 am (#680 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, if I thought one of my best friends were killed, I'd be in a panic. Basically, I don't think it would bring JKR down if she used Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione, or even Dumbledore/Hermione. That's not the point of the books. Sure, we are all curious, and sure, we all have our theories, but this is not the major part of the series.

Anna, just thought it was interesting I'm watching that right now. Wink Sadly, it's only the end, so I missed 'Me, Tarzan. You, Jane' part. Sad

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Weeny Owl - May 9, 2004 10:20 am (#681 of 2916)

Actually, I think it would be much more cliched if JKR had the main male character and the main female character get together.

Assuming Harry does live and does end up with someone, him marrying Ginny and being a legal part of the Weasleys would be a satisfying ending for those two. With Ron and Hermione together, the trio would never truly be apart again.

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Chris. - May 9, 2004 10:23 am (#682 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Exactly, they would all be family. What Harry always wanted: a loving family.

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tracie1976 - May 9, 2004 10:28 am (#683 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Weeny Owl: Assuming Harry does live and does end up with someone, him marrying Ginny and being a legal part of the Weasleys...
I think if they wanted Harry to be a "legal part of the Weasleys" that they would have tried to get Harry out of the Dursley's house by adopting Harry, or getting legal gardianship of Harry especially when Harry asked Ron to send him food when Dudley was put on a diet. The Wealsleys don't even know the details of Harry staying at the Dursleys or the prophecy and the Order isn't re-formed yet when the food was sent to Harry. So in my opinion they consider Harry part of the family no matter what. Legallity doesn't matter to them. So a marriage between Harry and Ginny might be considered as a brother marrying a sister.

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Weeny Owl - May 9, 2004 10:41 am (#684 of 2916)

But Molly calmed down in GoF after Harry told her Hermione wasn't his girlfriend, and Ron seemed to be hoping that Ginny's new boyfriend was Harry in OotP. Also in GoF, Ginny was none too pleased to hear Harry was taking Cho to the Yule Ball.

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tracie1976 - May 9, 2004 10:48 am (#685 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
But that was after Rita wrote that Hermione was seeing both Harry and Krum. So when Molly calmed down after being told that, she saw Hermione wasn't hurting Harry by dating Krum. I don't recall Ginny being upset when Harry took Cho to the Yule Ball, she had her own date with Neville and she seemed happy that she was actually going.

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Star Crossed - May 9, 2004 10:51 am (#686 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And if she was upset, it was only because she still had a crush on Harry, though I don't see what that has to do with anything.

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Anna Katarina - May 9, 2004 11:29 am (#687 of 2916)

Ginny seemed upset mostly about, Ron and Harry laughing at Neville. (Rude thing to do anyway!)

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Weeny Owl - May 9, 2004 12:00 pm (#688 of 2916)

Yes, Ginny was upset with the reaction to her going with Neville, but this was earlier.

Harry mentions Cedric going with Cho Chang, and then says, "I asked her to go with me just now."

Then it says that Ginny had suddenly stopped smiling.

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SarcasticGinny - May 9, 2004 12:41 pm (#689 of 2916)

Weeny Owl is right. Ginny is fighting back a smile as Ron goes through his whole "I asked Fleur to the ball" story. The second Harry says, "I asked her to go with me just now and she told me" (of Cho going with Cedric), the very net line is indeed "Ginny had suddenly stopped smiling", which prededes any talk of Neville and his "dates".

Other interesting lines in that scene: "Ron was staring at Hermione as though suddenly seeing her in a whole new light".

Also, once Ginny tells them that Neville is her date: "She looked extremely miserable. "I think I'll go and have dinner," she said and she got up and walked off to the portrait hole, her head bowed."

Then Parvati's first suggestion of who should go to the ball with Ron: "What about Hermione Granger?"

Analyze away. :-)

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tracie1976 - May 9, 2004 12:58 pm (#690 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Also, once Ginny tells them that Neville is her date: "She looked extremely miserable. "I think I'll go and have dinner," she said and she got up and walked off to the portrait hole, her head bowed."
Ginny could have finally realized that Harry would never feel the same way that she feels for him. That her crush sort of just slapped her in the face by asking Cho instead of her.

Then Parvati's first suggestion of who should go to the ball with Ron: "What about Hermione Granger?"
Maybe it was thought that since Hermione is not the best looking girl at Hogwarts that she wouldn't have a date already so might as well have Ron ask someone who probably doesn't have a date. Well as it turned out, Hermione already had agreed to go with Krum.
Analyzing done

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timrew - May 9, 2004 2:16 pm (#691 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
What is this cliche thing we've all heard about on this thread?

Ron getting together with Hermione is a cliche? So who started it? JKR. And she is the author.

So it ceases to be a cliche. End of story.

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S.E. Jones - May 9, 2004 2:48 pm (#692 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I can say it until my face is red but she is a much more skilled writer that that. Rowling has stayed away from cliche's so far and for her to throw such a huge one in now would completely undermine everything she's been doing since PS/SS.

There are some things that are not "cliches" but are simple story telling elements found in most classic works. 'The dark tortured character with the troubled past who's actually working for the goodguys but you don't find that out til later.' This isn't a cliche, it's a classic story element. In JKR's story it's Snape. 'The two characters who can't stand each other but are actually, secretly attracted to each other and end up falling in love by the end of the book after spending every page fighting' is another (it's found in most Regency Romances, of which JKR seems to be quite fond, as well as other genres).

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Brandon Christopher - May 9, 2004 4:43 pm (#693 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
First to Tim - authors often times use clichés, so simply saying that because an author says something doesn't make it one is ludicrous. Overuse is what makes something a cliché, so an author's use is not relevant to whether or not something is a cliché.
And yet again I find the need to go to Webster...
cliché
2 : a hackneyed theme, characterization, or situation (hackneyed means overuse)
3 : something (as a menu item) that has become overly familiar or commonplace

I see nothing in that definition that says that once an author uses a cliché that it is no longer one... The simple fact that two friends that constantly argue get together is so old and overused that is what makes it a cliché.

Whether or not the whole Snape thing is a cliché or not is a moot point (and off topic.) Anyways, to both Tim and SE - it is a cliché. Just because JKR writes it doesn't mean that it's not one. Who ever said that themes cannot be clichés also? That makes absolutely no sense at all. The simple fact that you see something often is what makes it a cliché. And stop me if I'm wrong here people but has JKR not gone away from clichés so far. We still do not know about Snape, he may or may not be a cliché right now (but that's for another thread.) I'm simply saying that for JKR to do something like this would go against her very writing style. She has kept this style thusfar so why would she suddenly go to clichés and overused themes so late in the story?

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S.E. Jones - May 9, 2004 6:13 pm (#694 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Whether Snape is a cliche or not is on topic in reference to how you cited the Ron/Hermione romance as also being used as a cliche. To say one is a cliche is to say the other is and yet you say she doesn't use them, thus the hole in your argument. That was the point of bringing Snape into the 'ship thread. Putting two characters who automatically repel and attract each other together is a common story element, one which features prominantly in some of JKR's favorite books. Sexual tension is not, at least literarily, considered a cliche; it is a plot device. She uses such classic plot devices all the time, so going with such a romantic plot device wouldn't be going against her current style because it is her current style -- classic storytelling.

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Star Crossed - May 9, 2004 7:07 pm (#695 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think whomever Hermione ends up will be considered cliche. If you pair her with Ron it's cliche because of the tension and it's so obvious. If you pair her with Harry, it's cliche because the hero always gets the heroine. No wonder romance is not a huge part of the story. She'd have everyone on her back.

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Czarina II - May 9, 2004 9:25 pm (#696 of 2916)

The word "cliche" has a negative connotation to it. Just because something is used often does not mean it is overused or trite. In fact, cliches are reassuring and work well in a plot if they are written well, or with humour. I think that in the case of romance, fans would be terribly disappointed and JKR's reputation would be ruined if she did something extremely odd and non-cliche. If Hermione were to end up with Neville, for instance, or with Terry Boot (more her intellectual equal), we would not be nearly as happy as we would if Hermione ends up with Ron. We know both characters. They are familiar. And wouldn't it just be so cute? I mean, they're teenagers. They don't have to get married at the end of Bk7 or anything, unless JKR decides that they do.

And EVERY writer uses cliches! That does not make them bad writers unless they RELY on them. The trick to being a good writer is to either make your own cliches or toy with established ones to make them your own. JKR has done the latter brilliantly.

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Fawkes Forever - May 10, 2004 3:58 am (#697 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Wow, 43 posts on the 'Ship thread... you guys have been busy!

Miréimé - "Ginny & Viktor Krum -> Ron's reation -> Neutral"
I do believe Ron would be secretly pleased However, he might have something to say about Ginny dating a much older guy! Hee hee

I think it's fair to say that we are all going to have our own opinions on 'who ends up with whom in the series'... but at the end of the day we have to remember, they're all still at school & I hardly see them finding their 'life partners' by the end of their 7th year. Unless thats the way JK writes it.

However, I don't think it's fair to criticise others for their opinions, whichever ‘ship we choose to support, or not as the case may be. We are all entitled to our own view point... but that doesn't mean to say we are right or wrong. I mean look at the 'Snape is a Vampire' theory. I had some friends who completely believed that & brought forth many convincing arguments to boot.

Alas that theory crashed & burned when JK put a stop to it all in her Web Chat in March of this year. It’s the same with any aspect of speculation in the series, relationships included, quite simply we won’t know until she [JK] tells us. We honestly don't know how JK will end the series.... who will still be alive, how she will play out the various 'ships & will any of the trio paired be off, who knows? It’s fun to speculate however, & that's what most of the fun of this forum is all about! The books are JK's creation however, and if she wants to introduce a cliché or use a well known literary tool or three, by all means do it!

I am in the camp that believes that 'something' will happen between Ron & Hermione.... from my perspective I see too many sparks flying around for it not to! However, JK not being a romantic writer & the 'ships only being part of the story not its entirety, this won't be the great romantic episode as found in many of her own favourite Austin novels.

Personally I enjoy the little bit of tension she has created between Ron & Hermione. It lets us know in a world gone mad (as the Wizarding world is descending into the madness of Voldy War II), some things still remain, human qualities & emotions, such as love, loyalty, understanding & well... bickering ! I just feel that this is the way that JK is developing the relationship with Ron & Hermione in the books, but of course I could be wrong ...

For now I’ll content myself with a few little quotes to support my choice of ‘ship.

Web Chat with JKR - March 8th 2004
"renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too."

As most of us have surmised, JK has written it that Ron has an obvious crush on Hermione, especially in GoF. What does keep us guessing however, is Hermiones mind... how does she feel?

BBC Online Chat - Comic Relief - March 12th 2001
Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire!

GOF - The Yule Ball
"Well, if you don't like it, you know what the solution is, don't you?" yelled Hermione; her hair was coming down out of it's elegant bun now, and her face was screwed up in anger.
"Oh yeah?" Ron yelled back. "What's that?"
"Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!" (bold mine)

Enough said.....

Remember guys... as Mr Isaacs aka Malfoy would say ... "play nicely"... We are all entitled to own opinions...
Personally... I’m still hanging out for a ‘love across the divide’ ship... Umbridge & Moody.... Hee hee...well she does like blue ‘saucer like’ eyes.... think kittens

EDIT : Apologies for my long-winded post (mini essay more like) & congrats to anyone who made it to the bottom
Thanks for taking the time to read it

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draco all the way - May 10, 2004 4:28 am (#698 of 2916)

All I'd like to say is that though I would love to see a good ship (think D/G) the thing is ships really don't matter at all. Its just a side story to J.K.R's main plot. And a way to feed the starving minds of romantically inclined 15 year old girls but never mind that. Anyways in the end Harry Potter remaind a an adventure story and not a romance novel. Thats what fanfiction is for and thank god we have that!

Having said all that I will continue to spend my time thinking up theories on why D/G BELONG together.

Finally, Fawkes excellant post! I just realized that I more or less said exactly what you said. But perhaps in a more concise manner.

And as for Ron and Hermione I have but one thing to say-Its so obvious! And YAY! I finally saw their little hand holding scene!

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Chris. - May 10, 2004 6:16 am (#699 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I'm supposing D/G means Draco and Ginny.

A bit like Romeo and Juliet. Two families who dislike each other, and a forbidden love.

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Fawkes Forever - May 10, 2004 6:25 am (#700 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Draco ATW... as they say, less is more.... unfortunately I rambled on a little bit too much... sorry! Hee hee

EDIT : Oh cool, post 700
EDIT 2: Thanks Mike

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'Ship-'Ship' (Exploring relationships) Empty Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 701 to 750)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 14, 2011 10:59 am

mike miller - May 10, 2004 6:32 am (#701 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Outstanding post Fawkes! Very well said. I agree by the way that we have seen too many clues to the Ron/Hermione ship for it to not be true. JKR has seeemingly given her approval to giving it to us a little faster and more obviously in the films. Did you see Hermione hugging Ron in the preview for PoA? It is perfectly normal for teenagers to have many awkward moments dealing with these new feelings and emotions.

I think the real mystery is who will Harry end up with?

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Ceilti O'Cahill - May 10, 2004 8:35 am (#702 of 2916)

Rwsearch Archivist/Student
Devika writes:

"I don't agree with the Harry Hermione ship. Apart from the fact that there are innumerable clues that point to Ron Hermione, there are reasons why H/H isn't likely."

I can think of a relatively few number of such 'clues', and those I think are open to a number of interpretations. Ron's gift of perfume for example I think is indicative of any number of immature boy's groping about for an appropriate gift. His jealosy of Victor has far more to do with the Triwizard Tournament, his feeling that Hermione has somehow betrayed Harry, and a male competiveness than with any romantic feelings towards Hermione. He ignores girls almost completely. Once he had admitted that Hermione was in fact a girl, and he had no other options for the ball, he became consumed with the fact that she had already chosen his personal hero and Harry's rival.

This is not personal attraction at work, but the machinations of an adolescent mind in which chemestry with Hermione plays very little or not part.

This may just be a personal preference of mine, but Ron's relationship with Hermione is just not on the same level as Harry's.

And as for Hermione's view of Ron, to her he is someone "with the emotional range of a teaspoon". I think her 'scowling' when that part-Veela witch from Beuxbautons (sp) kissed Ron was really anger about that girl's feminine manipulations than any jealousy. To me Hermione is not the jealous type.

I'm thinking of a long-lasting mature relationship, and I don't see Ron and Hermione having one. Harry, however presents just what Hermione needs, someone she can trust and respect.

"but that extra spark, which I think characterises a potential ship is missing."

I think we may have seen the beginnings of that 'spark' in the first book When Hermione became flustered and blushed at Harry's compliment about prefering to remain with her rather than continue with the quest for the stone, but I may be thinking of the movie. At any rate I certainly think that conditions are right for the 'spark' to occur, and I keep hoping it does.

"What I mean is that it's just too sugary and perfect to see the brave hero end up with his best friend who is a brilliant witch and a great companion. R/H is much more realistic... the girl falling for the hero's best friend and not the hero himself. I think that Harry and Hermione will always remain soulmates but will never become partners."

My favourite author is Jane Austin, and in her books, and throughout liturature just such things happen all the time. I hope and hope that Harry and Hermione do remain soulmates and become committed partners.

"As for Harry... I think there's a strong chance that he might not end up with anyone. I think he might find another date or two in the coming books but I can't really see anything real about it. I mean he's got a lot going on in his life. Luna it seems is penetrating that little cordon that he builds around his emotional self, but she's too wierd for him. And as much as I looovvve to reda Harry Ginny fanfics, there is actually no canon proof for that. It's like she's the next perfect candidate for him after Hermione (who's taken by Ron). What I think is a possibility is that we might never meet Harry's girl and we may just hear of her in the epilogue."

I agree with a lot of this, but not, of course, that Hermione is 'taken by Ron'. I also fantasize about Harry and Ginny, but it seems too cozy. I agree also that it might be too bad that Luna is so weird, she seems quite intuitive, giving, and competent. I hope she finds someone!

I hope the possibility you mention of never meeting Harry's girl never happens. My worst fear is that he not only will not get together with Hermione, but will not get together with anyone! (I don't think the author would allow that).

Thank you for an interesting post.

Ceilti

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Devika - May 10, 2004 9:35 am (#703 of 2916)

Ceilti... thanks for an interesting post to you too!

I think I'll have to repeat some of my earlier points to counter what you were saying. About the R/H clues being open to interpretation all I can say is that in most of these cases JKR's purpose in writing all that stuff is clear, while with Harry her scenes are much more ambiguous and open to interpretation. About the perfume - what I fail to understand is that how come Ron is suddenly finding it difficult to give her a gift when for the last four years he has had no apparent difficulty! It is clearly the kind of gift of a person who wants to give a girl something special because he likes her...

About his attitude towards her going out with Krum... I always got the impression that more than the tournament it was his closeness to Hermione which made Ron start to dislike Krum. It is clear that Ron's feelings for Hermione are different from what he as an adolescent woul feel for a girl. I think the biggest case in point would be Harry. He's an adolescent too but he wasn't nearly as bothered about Hermione's date to the ball as Ron.

I don't know about Hermione's feelings for Ron. I agree partly with what you say about the Veela incident... but I'm sure Hermione knows clearly that Ron has something for her and I think she likes him too but in an old fashioned way is waiting for him to make the first move.

In terms of what you say about a long lasting relationship, I agree her chemistry with Harry is better, but again I say, as soulmates but not potential partners. With Ron, I see that they are good for each other, so that's why I think they'd make a good couple. I think it's perfectly possible and infact more likely for her to have a great platonic relationship with Harry.

And about the spark... I think there are more than enough sparks with Ron to be looking anywhere else.

I always thought it was more Jane Austen-ish to see Ron and Hermione together, with their constant bickering. Harry and Hermione I still insist is too cliched... hero with best friend perfect girl.

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Catherine - May 10, 2004 12:17 pm (#704 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I guess I see Ron and Hermione as a more typical "Austen" like romance, if we are using Rowling's appreciation of Jane Austen's novels as a way to predict relationships.

I'm reminded of Pride and Prejudice when Elizabeth overhears Darcy demean her--rather like Ron does to Hermione at the beginning of SS. Elizabeth befriends Darcy's sister, who has a near miss with a scandal, rather like Hermione befriends Ginny, who was also used by a bad man (thinking Malfoy, then Riddle/Voldemort). There is the difference in class--Darcy comes from a rich, great family, but Elizabeth's background is not so sterling, and she has no real dowry. Ron comes from a pureblood wizarding family, and Hermione is muggle-born.

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Prefect Marcus - May 10, 2004 12:38 pm (#705 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Catherine,

P&P has always been my all-time favorite novel. You comparision between it and HP to justify a R/H ship is intriguing. Unfortunately, as with all analogies, it breaks down. Darcy is obviously the strongest male in the book. Elizabeth is the strongest female. She even puts Lady Catherine in her place! The two strongest characters end up with each other.

Hermione is obviously the strongest female, but to claim Ron is the strongest male is laughable. He is more of a Mr. Bingley type -- the second strongest good guy.

Perhaps we are seeing an Elizabeth-Wickham, or even an Elizabeth-Col. Fitzwilliam red herring with the Hermione-Ron ship? Not that I am comparing Ron's morals to Wickham's!

Marcus

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Sherbie Lemon - May 10, 2004 1:08 pm (#706 of 2916)

Yea, Fawkes! Great post; I completely agree!

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Catherine - May 10, 2004 2:04 pm (#707 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Marcus,

I share your appreciation for Pride and Prejudice. I was not using that novel to "justify" Ron and Hermione, more as a response to earlier posts. I don't think that the Ron and Hermione ship needs justifying at all, as I think Rowling has made it pretty clear how those two feel, at least right now.

By identifying "Austen-esque" moments between Ron and Hermione, I don't think that I actually made a literal analogy that every single things between Ron and Hermione is exactly like Darcy and Elizabeth in every single way. I also don't happen to believe, as you said, that all analogies break down, so we'll have to disagree on that point!

I think, if the Mirror of Erised gave us any real clues, that Ron will end up as the kind of person who can "fit" with Hermione's strength. Let's not penalize him completely because he's not the protagonist of the series. BTW, I did laugh at your "Ron is Bingley"--Ron is a lot more like Bingley in personality than Darcy! The image of Rupert Grint waltzing in a Regency ballroom wearing his maroon dress robes comes to mind...and it's too funny.

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Mare - May 10, 2004 3:56 pm (#708 of 2916)

O thanks guys! No I have this image in my head of some sort of HP-movie/ BBC serie crossover. With Elizabeths mum looking to Ron on the dancefloor dancing with Jane.

Hmmm, that actress could maybe be a good Umbridge bye the way. Somehow she could pull off a character that would be described as poisoned honey!

On the ship ship topic, I love to read all this discussions. Personally I believe Ron is yet beginning to grow and that there is still a lot Hermione could learn from him. If Harry and Hermione would be together you have one brains and one person who is destined to save the world. Ron knows how to lighten up and enjoy the moment. Now if we hook him up with Hermione, so he could balance her out... Who will take care of Harry?
Allthough I love a well written Harry/Ginny fanfic, I don't think it is going to happen.. Luna? not sure either, so I will put my money on: Hannah Abbot! (I already reserved Susan bones for Neville you see!)

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S.E. Jones - May 11, 2004 12:57 am (#709 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Okay, this isn't exactly a 'shipping question but as it concerned a 'ship I thought I'd mention the idea here. If you can think of a better place to ask this, let me know. If Ron and Hermione, or any pureblood and Muggleborn for that matter, were to start dating, do you think they'd encounter any resentments or negative actions (apart from the general daily name calling from Draco's lot) from the other purebloods in the school, especially those from Slytherin? I know that not all purebloods are going to be quite as fanatical as Mrs. Black and the Malfoys, but I can't help but notice that the Weasleys, despite being a very tolerant family ("blood-traitors") are still pureblooded which makes me wonder if some kids aren't going to get some pressure from their families to make socially appropriate marriages. And losing one pureblood, or bringing one Muggleborn in to "dilute the bloodline", is quite a lot when there aren't many pureblooded families left. (I only bring Ron and Hermione up because they are more likely to stay together after school, at least in other people's view, being that they are long-time friends.) So, is it a valid question?

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draco all the way - May 11, 2004 1:30 am (#710 of 2916)

I don't think Mrs. weasley would mind because she's always having Hermione over and stuff. But you remember how the Weasleys have some relative who's an accountant and Ron says they never talk about him- It makes you wonder if the Weasleys really are that tolerant.

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Chris. - May 11, 2004 5:29 am (#711 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
OP Bloomsbury Edition, P621, OWLs

"Did you see the look on Chang's face when Ginny got the Snitch right out from under her nose?"[said Ron]

Does this symbolize Ginny 'stealing' Harry's heart from Cho?

I know it was a simple Quidditch game, and Ginny wouldn't just float about on her broom but it could mean something.

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Star Crossed - May 11, 2004 2:56 pm (#712 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's cute, Prongs! I have no idea if it's correct, but it is very interesting!

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Catherine - May 11, 2004 3:33 pm (#713 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
You know, Prongs, I wonder if Ginny's "snitch-stealilng" prompted Cho to make a play for Michael.

I know that Ginny said that Michael got "sulky" about losing to Gryffindor, and so she dumped him, but I wonder if Cho was retaliating by being so available right away.

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Czarina II - May 11, 2004 6:15 pm (#714 of 2916)

"Does [Ginny catching the Snitch instead of Cho] symbolize Ginny 'stealing' Harry's heart from Cho?"

Prongs -- I thought that too when I read that part.

I think Ginny came into her own a lot in the fifth book. After GoF, Ginny still didn't seem 'worthy' (character-wise) of Harry. At the end of OoP, it is easier to see her being an equal to him. I think the mere fact that Ginny became the Seeker to replace Harry is an indication of a future relationship between them. Like Harry, too, she never got a chance to play except by herself. Her brothers never let her play with them. As the icing on the cake, she beats Cho in the Quidditch final. It seems to make her 'more worthy' to be Harry's girlfriend than Cho. Besides, Michael Corner got upset at Ginny catching the Snitch and went for Cho instead. Was it a falling out over the Quidditch game? Or Harry?

Ginny never actually SAYS she's dating Dean Thomas. She only says that she would consider him suitable.

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Star Crossed - May 11, 2004 6:25 pm (#715 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't even think that. I always assumed that she was doing that to irk Ron. Have we ever seen them talk? That just sprung out from no where, so I thought she was kidding.

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Padfoot - May 12, 2004 12:28 pm (#716 of 2916)

Oh, I just assumed that Ginny was really going out with Dean. Maybe she was just saying something flip to annoy Ron though.

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Czarina II - May 12, 2004 10:56 pm (#717 of 2916)

I think Ginny would know that her big brother wants her to get together with Harry. Therefore, I think she was just kidding about Dean. She could still find Dean attractive, though, and perhaps he is a friend of some sort. They could concoct a nice story to fool Ron with in Bk6!

However, since JKR almost always pairs Lavender and Parvati together and Seamus together with Dean, I always have the mental image of the four of them on a double date (Lavender and Seamus -- since they went to the Yule Ball together; and Parvati and Dean). If Ron and Hermione get together, then poor Neville and Harry just HAVE to date Luna and Ginny! Oh well, wishful thinking ;-)!

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Star Crossed - May 13, 2004 3:42 am (#718 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No, no, they would force dating two girls only alive in PoA without any names, personality, or life. Razz

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Prefect Marcus - May 13, 2004 9:08 am (#719 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
The future Mrs. Harry Potter?

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haymoni - May 13, 2004 10:29 am (#720 of 2916)

I'm right with you, Prefect Marcus - See? She isn't pug-faced at all!!

I really want you to be right about this. It just feeds in so well with my theory of Draco not returning to Hogwarts. Oh, the look on Draco's face when he sees Pansy with Potter in Hogsmeade sometime.

(Not that I think he cared one bit for Pansy...it will just be one more time that Harry has bested him.)

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Star Crossed - May 13, 2004 12:55 pm (#721 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think they chose poorly for Pansy. That girl is quite adorable, not at all pug-faced. But I do believe this is much ground work for evidence that Harry and Pansy may become smitten.

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Denise P. - May 13, 2004 1:23 pm (#722 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
We don't know for sure that Pansy is pug faced. We are seeing things from Harry's POV and since there is no lost love bewteen Harry and any Slytherin so far, it is not unusual that he would not see anything appealing about her looks. Rita describes Pansy as "pretty" which also has to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. I think it entirely likely that Pansy is a normal looking girl, not leaning towards the pug side or incredibly pretty side. It will be interesting to see if she is the one JKR has in mind for our Harry.

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Molly Weasly Wannabe - May 14, 2004 10:46 am (#723 of 2916)

What holding hand scene w/Ron and Hermonie? The only scene I saw from the trailer is where they are talking about Black and Hermonie grabs Ron's wrist.........NOT his hand. If there is a scene where she "holds" his hand, please someone show me where it is.

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mike miller - May 14, 2004 10:51 am (#724 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Molly - I think the more telling scene is when Hermione turns and hugs Ron. I think this is when they hear the sound that they think is Buckbeaks execution.

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S.E. Jones - May 14, 2004 12:39 pm (#725 of 2916)

Let it snow!
There is, apparently, also supposed to be other hand/wrist/whatever holding scenes between Ron and Hermione. There is one in front of the Shrieking Shack in the snow (I think this is where Draco and company show up and Harry torments them in the Invisibility Cloak). The three actors mentioned it during one of short interludes during the PoA preview on ABC last Sunday. Rupert mentioned getting "bogged down with the 'hand moments'" in this film... I don't know if that helped at all, though....

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Kieran Burke - May 15, 2004 4:51 am (#726 of 2916)

Back to the whole Hermione and Ron idea, I agree with Marcus that its almost impossible to concieve that Hermione and Ron would keep it a secret from Harry for almost a whole year, however I am a big fan of the the idea that Hermione and Ron will become a couple in the future, and that there have deffinatly been signs of interest from both of them, especially in GoF. Maybe something DID happen at Grimmauld Place, not the beginnings of a full-fledged relationship, but maybe a kissing session on a bed? Wink However, having read the essay on Hermione and Harry becoming more and more of a duo in book 5, I do agree it makes a very good case. I predict that this love triangle will be a big story line in the future, and that Hermione feels the same as us about Ron and Harry: torn between the two!

But so far I'm more in favour of Ron and Hermione. I have absolutely no idea who Harry will end up with. Maybe the Creevy brothers!!! Ok actually no i don't want to think of that!

I also think we have more to see of Cho just yet. I don't think she's quite as black and white as its been made to look, and I feel alot of sympathy for her, she's been through alot. She's been selfish maybe but we've all been guilty of that.

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Kieran Burke - May 15, 2004 5:06 am (#727 of 2916)

molly i just had to say, i LOVE your picture, its great!!!

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Neville Longbottom - May 15, 2004 7:51 am (#728 of 2916)


JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]

This quote is from here.

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Doesn't this rule a Harry/Hermione ship out?

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Kieran Burke - May 15, 2004 9:28 am (#729 of 2916)

Not at all. I think its possible she just didn't want to say "No, sorry I can't answer that" another time!!! Also she might have meant that they don't have a date in book 3 or 4 seeing at that is what the interview was mainly focusing on.

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Devika - May 15, 2004 10:21 am (#730 of 2916)

Neville, I think it totally rules out a H/H ship. Quite frankly, I don't see a love triangle between the trio. First of all, because to me it seems that R/H is very obvious, not only to me but also to Harry. After the Yule Ball, when Harry sees them arguing, it is he who thinks, Hermione got the point better or something like that. So, clearly there is a subconscious barrier for Harry to even think about Hermione. I mean, even among good friends, if you know that someone likes someone or is going around with someone that person is off limits. I'm not suggesting that Harry might be repressing any hidden feelings for hermione... just that he's not thinking about her. This for me totally rules out that angle for a triangle. As for Hermione liking Harry, I don't want to get in once again into why R/H is the ship of the book.

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S.E. Jones - May 15, 2004 11:05 am (#731 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Has anyone seen the new look of JKR's site? There's a FAQ page on it and someone asked the old H/H or R/H 'ship question and here's what was said:

Q: Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
A: I can't believe that some of you haven't worked this one out yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.

She just loves to hear us fight, doesn't she....

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Kieran Burke - May 15, 2004 1:19 pm (#732 of 2916)

What you say is all very true Devika, however the fact that R/H is so obvious doesn't mean alot. We all know J.K.R has a talent for Red Herrings. I don't think there is any kind of sub conscious barrier for Harry concerning Hermione, I just think that he agree's with her, and lets face it, she had a point!! And regardless of Harry's feelings, there have been subtle hints about Hermione's. If she does have feelings for Harry, there's bound to be consequences later in the series.

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Chris. - May 15, 2004 1:28 pm (#733 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think it's obvious that Ron fancies...even loves Hermione. Hermione acknowledges that, but still has to see Ron's mature side. I think he showed it more in OotP.

Kieran, can you tell me where these H/Hr hints are?

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Kieran Burke - May 15, 2004 2:01 pm (#734 of 2916)

Ok well if you read the essay in the lexicon about their partnership in OoP that makes some very interesting points. Also the chapter 'The Eye Of The Snake' page 404 of the U.K hardback version, where Harry is about to tell Ron and Hermione about his kiss with Cho in the Room of Requirement, look carefully at Hermione's reaction... 'Harry looked from Ron's expression of mingled curiosity and hilarity to Hermione's slight frown, and nodded'

I may be jumping to conclusions but did Hermione let slip some jealousy? It seems possible to me.

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Chris. - May 15, 2004 2:09 pm (#735 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Wasn't that just because of Ron's childish reaction? I don't think that hints jealousy.

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Kieran Burke - May 15, 2004 2:39 pm (#736 of 2916)

Maybe, it depends on how you read it I suppose. Like I've said, I'm more of a fan of the Hr/R relationship but I still believe that Hermione has some hidden feelings for Harry

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Star Crossed - May 15, 2004 3:05 pm (#737 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, allow me to slip into the fandom world, but I read this one fic that really seems like it probably happened. Before Harry returned, Ron and Hermione were talking and got onto betting that Harry and Cho kissed (Ron - pro, Hermione - con). This would also explain why Ron went into hysterics when Harry said he did. It would also explain Hermione's sour mood, having lost a bet to Ron. I think the best thing about this scene was Ron's reaction to Hermione's comment about how Harry couldn't be a bad kisser. Ron's so cute!

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Ozymandias - May 15, 2004 9:09 pm (#738 of 2916)

Nothing beside remains...
JKR's comment that she can't believe we haven't figured it out yet makes me think that it is indeed something very obvious and that (for once) it'll be straightforward and red herring-less. I think there are so many more obvious hints for H/R that this is gonna be it. Sometimes we really do read too much into these things...Wink

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Devika - May 16, 2004 6:24 am (#739 of 2916)

I agree that JKR's comment clearly refers to a R/H ship because it is the most obviously written thing. Kieran, I agree that she has a total talent for red herrings, but to me it seems futile that she would use red herrings for 'ships, which in my opinion are at most a sub-plot unrelated to th main story. If something is not going to have a bearing on the basic plot I see no reason to shroud it in mystery. The only purpose I see in ships is to show that the trio are normal teenagers. That purpose is fulfilled and I don't see her wanting to do anything further with. I think there are enough loose ends elsewhere to warrant any red herrings here.

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Prefect Marcus - May 16, 2004 11:39 am (#740 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Well, I suspect Rowling is working hard at 'ship red herrings when it comes to Harry. I think the R/H is part of the misdirection. While everyone is focused on the big and obvious one, she is quietly building the foundation for Harry's right under our noses.

Now what it will be is the fun part of speculation. :-)

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Czarina II - May 17, 2004 9:34 pm (#741 of 2916)

If Harry and Hermione were to get together, their strong characters would be fused. Harry would have a partner to help him defeat Voldemort. He CAN'T have a partner to help him defeat the Dark Lord. Only HE can do that. Harry is becoming more and more isolated and I think next year, he will reconnect to the larger wizarding world. The DA, for instance, forced him to interact with other students besides Hermione, Ron, his dorm- and team-mates.

But if Harry is to go it alone for most of the series, what to do with Ron and Hermione? Well, the answer is obvious: have them get together. It creates a nice subplot to detract us from Harry and his problems.

Many have suggested here that the first book (more precisely the quest for the Philosopher's Stone itself) is an allegory for the series. There are lots of good theories, but I find it most important that once Hermione had deciphered the riddle, she sent Harry onwards while going back for Ron. While this served the plot anyhow, why did they assume right away in the first book that it was HARRY alone who had to go on? They just thought Snape wanted to get the Stone for himself. Voldemort, at the very least Harry's connection to him, was not integral to the plot at this point. Hermione, having first defeated the Devil's Snare and then the Potion Puzzle, could have easily insisted that she get the Stone. But she went back for Ron.

Thus, it is likely that Ron will be severely injured toward the end of the very end of the series and Hermione -- though she will help Harry -- will go back to Ron. Alternatively, this lovely scene in PS might be just a symbol for Hermione being committed to helping Harry as much as she can as a friend, but she feels differently for Ron.

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Mrs. Sirius - May 17, 2004 11:29 pm (#742 of 2916)

Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
JKR is writing her own story, her way. I don't believe we will see her story exactly in any other book. She does however, use some of the classic forms with which we are familiar.

Although I have never had solid evidence to support my theory of a Harry Ginny 'ship, since PS/SS I have felt that that some kind of bond was formed with Harry and the Weasley family on platform 9 3/4. The friendship with Ron is obvious, and even with the twins, the relationship is clear on the Quidditch team.

Now JKR has given us two big clues to support a H/G 'ship. Ginny is the first girl born in her family in generations and her name is Ginevra. This name looks suspiciously like Guinevere. Sure enough it is derived from the some root, of the famous queen wife of the famous King Arthur.

In one version of the tale of King Arthur, he meets his future queen early in his career but does not do much about it until years later when they meet again. I don't want to make conjecture how that 'ship might go, that's way to open but it's nice to have some validation at least for the direction of the theory.

I have had my priorities all wrong of late so I had not been keeping up reading the posts when I discovered JRK's new site. Now I am so far behind I haven't been able incorporate all the posts as well as the new info from her. I promise to try and do better and read all these back posts.

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tracie1976 - May 19, 2004 4:30 pm (#743 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I'm finding this interesting regarding the H/Hr ship. We all know Harry and Hermione rode Buckbeak during the full moon or waxing moon.
Full Moon Magick "From fourteen to seventeen-and-a-half days after the new moon. Prime time for rituals for prophecy, protection, divination. Any working that needs extra power, such as help finding a new job or healing for serious conditions, can be done now. Also, love, knowledge, legal undertakings, money and dreams."
Anyways thought I would share

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Star Crossed - May 21, 2004 1:29 pm (#744 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Pathetic how I was sent, even forced, to defend the R/Hr ship, but it must be done.

Well, it's not like this could be done any other day. If it was, I dunno, a new moon or something, that would destroy the whole point of that scene. Call me blunt, but I just think this is a coicidence. It's not like anything else from that list happened. Maybe, just maybe, you could think knowledge of it, since Harry (and we) learn the truth, but even that's far-fetched. While I will not lie and state there is not H/Hr evidence out there, I don't think this is it. That's like me saying that R/Hr will happen because R/Hr will happen, purely based on the fact both times Ron joked about the planets, Hermione was not there. It's simply concidental.

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S.E. Jones - May 21, 2004 8:20 pm (#745 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Um, the full moon's purpose was to cause a catalyst (Lupin's transformation) which would take Lupin out of the picture so he couldn't help defend Black from the dementors (which is why Harry and Hermione have to do it) and why they aren't there to stop Pettigrew from escaping (which is what later allows Voldemort to come back). The moon had to be full that night or the end of the book wouldn't happen. I don't see how it could point to one 'ship or another. I think we're digging too deeply again....

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Weeny Owl - May 22, 2004 12:23 am (#746 of 2916)

JKR has said that she's given us enough data to be able to reach the right conclusion regarding Ron/Hermione or Harry/Hermione.

We might interpret the evidence to support our own preferences, but I find myself agreeing yet again with Sarah... all of that was for the plot itself so the book could end. I also don't see how it could point one way or the other to romance between anyone.

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Dumbledore - May 22, 2004 9:14 am (#747 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I agree with you SE and Weeny Owl. However, I do think that there are many clues (especially in books 4 and 5) that point to the Ron/Hermione theory. Simply the bickering, Ron's jealousy when Hermione talks to other guys, and the subtle ways that they flirt with each other leads me to think that they will, perhaps, go out briefly, but then realize that they are too different to really have a serious relationship, and will go back to being best friends. I wonder how Ron/Hermione going out would affect Harry though!!

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tracie1976 - May 22, 2004 9:33 am (#748 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Flirting between Hermione and Ron? I'm sorry but I don't recall flirting between the two. Can I have some examples?
I think Ron getting angry at Hermione for even going with Krum to the Yule Ball was because Krum was competing against Harry for the Tri-Wizard Tournament not because he was jealous.

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Dumbledore - May 22, 2004 9:50 am (#749 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Sorry I worded it wrong...not really flirting but more like acting very "couple-like". I really can't give any examples, it just something that I think I have been noticing. Maybe I'm just HOPING that Ron and Hermione will get together!!

However, in Order of the Phoenix I specifically noticed a short back and forth conversation between Ron and Hermione that shows that Ron is still jealous over Viktor Krum, and this is way after the Triwizard Tournament when Ron was jealous because Harry was competing with Krum, Tracie.

"Yes, Harry." said Hermione gently, "but all the same, there's no point pretending that you're not good at Defense Against the Dark Arts, because you are. You were the only person last year who could throw off the Imperius Curse completely, you can produce a Patronus, you can do all sorts of stuff that full-grown wizards can't, Viktor always said - " Ron looked around at her so fast that he appeared to crick his neck; rubbing it, he said, "Yeah? What did Vicky say? "Ho ho," said Hermione in a bored voice. "He said Harry knew how to do stuff even he didn't, and he was in the final year at Durmstrang." Ron was looking at Hermione suspiciously. "You're not still in contact with him, are you?" "So what if I am?" said Hermione coolly, though her face was a little pink. "I can have a pen pal if I-" "He didn't only want to be your pen pal," said Ron accusingly. Hermione shook her head exasperatedly and, ignoring Ron, who was continuing to watch her...

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S.E. Jones - May 22, 2004 10:00 am (#750 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I think Ron getting angry at Hermione for even going with Krum to the Yule Ball was because Krum was competing against Harry for the Tri-Wizard Tournament not because he was jealous.

Well these aren't flirtatous moments, but here's why I think of the argument at the ball: He says that's why but there really isn't reason for him to be because Harry tells him that he doesn't mind Krum (you'll notice that Ron ignores this part). He spends a week prior to the ball asking her, every opportunity he gets, who she's going with and can't let the subject drop. He also spends most of the night (before him and Harry started discussing Hagrid and giants) staring at Hermione and ignoring the pretty girl that he brought. All in all, I'd say the competition was just a reason for him to argue with Hermione because he didn't want to admit he was jealous.

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Star Crossed - May 22, 2004 10:33 am (#751 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think that's the reason. Ron was in awe after Krum got the honour for Durmstrang, and after Harry got in (He just got mad at Harry and would not tell him.) Ron did not get mad until the Yule Ball. Around here, that's a little thing we call jealousy.

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tracie1976 - May 22, 2004 10:38 am (#752 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
So the following outburst from Ron on page 421 GoF/pb/american is just jealousy?
"He's from Durmstrang!" spat Ron. "He's competing against Harry! Against Hogwarts! You--you're--" Ron was obviously casting around for words strong enough to describe Hermione's crime, "fraternizing with the enemy, that's what you're doing!"

I am so confused*

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Star Crossed - May 22, 2004 10:48 am (#753 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Most likely, unless you can find a similar argument about it. Also, the way he acted when he found out she might be going over to his house over the summer, and the way he broke off Krum's arm on his action figure right after the Yule Ball, not before...My list could go on for a very long time if you wish me to continue.

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mike miller - May 22, 2004 10:49 am (#754 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Yes - Ron is jealous! He's trying to come up with any reason for being angry at Hermione that don't relate to how he actually feels about her. Teenage boys, speaking from my own history, are completely clueless when it comes to their feelings, girls and relationships. Ron just doesn't know what to do with his feelings.

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tracie1976 - May 22, 2004 10:58 am (#755 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
How do we know that the figure of Krum's arm was broken after the Yule Ball? All it says is Ron said nothing. He hadn't mentioned Viktor Krum since the ball, but Harry found a miniature arm under his bed on Boxing Day, which had looked very much as though it had been snapped off a small model figure wearing Bulgarian Quidditch Robespg. 444 GoF
To me, this says that Harry found it on Boxing Day and that it could have been under his bed for awhile, so we actually do not know when Ron destroyed the figure of Krum.

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Star Crossed - May 22, 2004 11:06 am (#756 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Alright, that's a good point, I always took it to mean that it was after the Yule Ball, you are right it might not mean that.

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Anna Katarina - May 22, 2004 11:07 am (#757 of 2916)

We don't know anything for sure yet of course, but it makes sense that the arm wouldn't have been under the bed for too long. The house-elfs would have cleaned it away.

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Weeny Owl - May 22, 2004 11:09 am (#758 of 2916)

I agree with you, Mike. From personal experience having had teenage boys around the house, what they say and what they're actually reacting to and feeling are rarely close. They aren't about to get into feelings, and quite often mouth off about something that is safe. Ron chastising Hermione for her "fraternizing" sounds just like those two teenage boys around my house when they were in the midst of an attraction they didn't quite know how to deal with.

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Dumbledore - May 22, 2004 11:29 am (#759 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I agree...I think that Ron probably just thought of a somewhat reasonable excuse, in his head, on why he should be so upset that Hermione went to the Yule Ball with Krum. In my opinion, he just said that to cover up the true reason that he was so upset - that he was jealous.

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mike miller - May 22, 2004 1:26 pm (#760 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Tracie - You're right in that Ron could have pulled the arm off the figure of Krum months before; however, what's the point of JKR putting that little statement about not mentioning Victor since the Yule Ball? If JKR didn't want us to connect the two events, she would not have written those few words, Harry would have just found the arm.

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Prefect Marcus - May 22, 2004 2:21 pm (#761 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
It is quite obvious that Ron is interested in Hermione. He just hasn't figured it out yet. But as I've said before, even if they do get together, it won't necessarily last. Hermione is just too strong for him. She excels at everything. At this moment in time, Ron excels at nothing but comic relief. Any relationship would be too one-sided.

Of course, things might change in the next two books.

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Molly Weasly Wannabe - May 22, 2004 9:05 pm (#762 of 2916)

I personally think that it is Ron who has a thing for Hermione. I am not sure if Hermione feels the same towards him or not. She came across a bit jealous herself when she heard about Harry kissing Cho. In the 4th book she kisses Harry on the cheek before he leaves for "home", and in the 5th book she kissed Ron on the cheek before the Quiddeth match (I think it was before the match). Possibly she did this to see if she could get a reaction out of Harry? Also, in her letter to Harry in book 3, she signs it "Much love" Hermione (something like that.....I know it had "love" somewhere in there.)

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S.E. Jones - May 22, 2004 10:34 pm (#763 of 2916)

Let it snow!
She signed her letter to Ron (and Harry, if he was there, IF) in CoS, "Love from Hermione", so I don't think it means anything.... As for the kiss on the cheek, Harry had almost been killed and was very depressed because he'd just seen another student murdered, that's something you give a friend a kiss on the cheek for. When she kissed Ron, it was just for "luck", or to distract him from the Slytherin table which he was too freaked out over to pay much attention to anyway. That usually isn't a 'kissing offense' among friends, yet she kissed him anyway.

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Star Crossed - May 23, 2004 10:48 am (#764 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Being fourteen, I am about the same age as Hermione. As for the 'Love from Hermione', I sign all my notes with a large heart and my name. Whether you're my best friend, crush, guy friend, or parents. Just how it acts.

As for the kiss for Harry, yes, that was just a kiss because he was depressed. Harry couldn't care less. He didn't say "Woo. Hermione kissed me. She must be in love with me." He just passed it off. Hermione kissed Ron because he was nervous as the dickens. His reaction is another that shows how he feels about Hermione. He had his hand to his cheek where she kissed him for a while and seemed to forget everything else.

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tracie1976 - May 23, 2004 11:19 am (#765 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Being fourteen, I am about the same age as Hermione. As for the 'Love from Hermione', I sign all my notes with a large heart and my name. Whether you're my best friend, crush, guy friend, or parents. Just how it acts.
We have to remember this is taking part in the early 90s. I was a teenager back then, and we did not sign "love" or anything like that on our letters. "Love" was used on our letters to our boyfriends. On friends' letters we used BFF, TTFN, and stuff like that. Or if we did put "love" to our friends we'd put "Love from your sis" or simply sign our name.

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S.E. Jones - May 23, 2004 11:58 am (#766 of 2916)

Let it snow!
It has nothing to do with the time period. My sister signs her letters (to everyone) the same as Star Crossed and did so back in the early 90s. I also went to school with girls who signed everything (everything!) with hearts and "love" and I was a teen in the early 90s. My sister-in-law did so back in the 80s. It's just something some girls do....

And the "Love from Hermione" was addressed to Ron (in a letter) in CoS and Harry in PoA (in his birthday card)....

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tracie1976 - May 23, 2004 12:13 pm (#767 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Actually the letter was addressed to both Ron and Harry.
Dear Ron and Harry if you are there, pg 45 CoS
How do we know that she signs all her letters to Ron "Love from Hermione" or did she just do that hoping that Harry was there at the Burrow with Ron.

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Star Crossed - May 23, 2004 12:25 pm (#768 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Because the letter wasn't to Harry. It was to Ron. But if Harry was there, he could read it. I do that with my friends. I just say their name, and I know it'll get passed to other people to read. I don't think Hermione spends every moment on her signature, rather than the content inside the letter.

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S.E. Jones - May 23, 2004 12:29 pm (#769 of 2916)

Let it snow!
My point was that she probably signs all her letters that way.

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tracie1976 - May 23, 2004 12:37 pm (#770 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Star Crossed:I don't think Hermione spends every moment on her signature, rather than the content inside the letter.
Ahhhhh the letter that was to Ron, was mainly about Harry.
Continuing Hermione's letter: I hope everything went all right and Harry is okay and that you didn't do anything illegal to get him out, Ron, because that would get Harry into trouble, too. I've been really worried and if Harry is all right, will you please let me know at once....
Hmmmm sounds like a frantic Hermione trying to figure out if Harry is all right, considering all that was two sentences.

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Star Crossed - May 23, 2004 12:46 pm (#771 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, obviously. Any good friend would care if one's best friend who never returned any letters to *anyone*, even their other best friend, and was going to be escaping from his aunt's and uncle's by means of a flying car and Weasleys.

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S.E. Jones - May 23, 2004 12:50 pm (#772 of 2916)

Let it snow!
They were both worrying about Harry and the fact that they hadn't heard from their dear friend in months, Ron even says so. And Ron also pointed out that he was the one who wrote to Hermione to tell her that he was going after Harry....Certainly we can't suggest that Ron is in love with Harry from that?

I'm not suggesting anything here, just saying that they were friends who were worried about their friend who they hadn't heard from. They are corresponding. She's going to reply about the same subject. Ron's letter was about Harry, so Hermione's response was about Harry. If Ron had written about the weather, Hermione would have responded about the weather.

EDIT: Especially Weasleys....

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Dumbledore - May 23, 2004 3:09 pm (#773 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I agree with you S.E. Jones. Hermione and Ron were both really worrying about Harry because they hadn't heard from him since school ended. I know if I hadn't heard from one of my best friends in months (even a friend of the opposite gender) I'd be just as worried as Hermione, but like Hermione, in a platonic way.

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Czarina II - May 23, 2004 10:33 pm (#774 of 2916)

I think this has become a debate between Ron/Hermione vs. Harry/Hermione and neither side can be declared a winner! We've reached a stalemate. Everyone has raised interesting points. If I was just stumbling on here for the first time, I (well, I'd be still several hundred posts back!) wouldn't be clearly in favour of one ship or the other. However, I am not new to this discussion.

I am still of the belief that Harry and Hermione are very close friends. They are BEST FRIENDS. It doesn't matter that they are of opposite genders. Hermione cares for Harry the same way that Lavender cares for Parvati -- and I am in no way trying to suggest or even THINK that those two are in a romantic relationship! There is no tension between Hermione and Harry, but there is between Hermione and Ron. I also think that both Ron and Hermione have feelings for each other. Ron just expresses them in a manner more noticeable to Harry. Hermione is more subtle. That doesn't mean she doesn't care.

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Ozymandias - May 25, 2004 7:37 pm (#775 of 2916)

Nothing beside remains...
That's a good point, Czarina, about what Harry notices. We know from OoP that Harry needs someone like Hermione to translate the meaning behind the "mad things girls do." If Harry doesn't recognize the signs of Hermione's affection for Ron (if, indeed, they are there) we probably won't hear about them, because the story is told mostly through Harry.

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timrew - May 28, 2004 4:05 pm (#776 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Harry strikes me as incredibly naive where girls are concerned. He needs Hermione to explain the simplest things to him. He doesn't realise that when he is on a date with Cho, he should not be arranging to meet Hermione.

I think he'll be ready for romance when he's about sixty-five. So don't expect it by the end of book 7!

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Brandon Christopher - May 28, 2004 4:35 pm (#777 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
I highly doubt that Harry won't have any romance by book seven. I see what you're saying Tim, and I also realize you were being a bit sarcastic (if you weren't I apologize for my presumption.) But I seriously think that if Harry lives he won't be alone. He is incredibly naive right now as you pointed out. But he also has a solid two years left at school where he'll be left to mature and figure things out. The opposite sex might not be his strong suit now but I think by the end of the series he'll have them down a bit better.

I think the question is if he'll find anyone who he likes enough to stay with through what he's going to have to go through. And also if that person is willing to stick with him through all that too. He comes with a lot of baggage; when he figures girls out he'll have to find a girl that accepts that baggage. I think there are only a few prospective candidates right now - all of which have been mentioned before numerous times in thsi thread (Hermione, Ginny, Luna) Luna not so much, but I could still see it happening. We just don't know much about her at the moment.

Harry alone at sixty-five would just be so sad Tim!

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I Am Used Vlad - May 28, 2004 4:44 pm (#778 of 2916)

I Am Almighty!
Don't worry, Brandon, Harry's a wizard. He could marry at 65 and still have 100 years of wedded bliss.

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Brandon Christopher - May 28, 2004 5:29 pm (#779 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Ohhhh! I forgot about that - good point Nimrod

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haymoni - May 29, 2004 5:54 am (#780 of 2916)

I think Harry is going to be afraid to let anyone too close to him.

Everyone he really cares about dies.

Doesn't mean a bit of snogging won't be going on though!

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Dumbledore - May 29, 2004 5:57 am (#781 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
The question is...who will Harry be snogging with? :-)

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Star Crossed - May 29, 2004 11:18 am (#782 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I thought the question was...who won't Harry be snogging with? Wink

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haymoni - May 29, 2004 11:24 am (#783 of 2916)

Yes - Harry may have that "I've got to face Voldemort. I could die at any moment. Live for now." kind of feeling and may not to picky about his snogging choices.

I doubt it though - I think he knew all along that he would eventually have to face Voldemort once & for all. I think we'll find him a bit more serious - not quite so angry as he was in OotP.

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timrew - May 29, 2004 3:14 pm (#784 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
The thing is, when he's 65, will Harry take his teeth out or leave them in to snog?

And yes, Brandon, I was being sarcastic!

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Brandon Christopher - May 29, 2004 5:09 pm (#785 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
Gummed snogging, interesting visual.

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haymoni - May 29, 2004 5:58 pm (#786 of 2916)

Well, Trelawney said he would live to a ripe old age, be Minister of Magic and have 12 kids - she didn't say in what order that would happen.

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Brandon Christopher - May 29, 2004 6:20 pm (#787 of 2916)

Watch out for the killer rootbeer!!! (if you had been to the gathering you would know :-p)
She also said he'd die gruesome and terrible deaths - quite often. ;-)

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Julia. - May 29, 2004 7:58 pm (#788 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
*Sings* "When I get older losing my hair many years from now..." OK, that's "When I'm 64," but, close enough, right?

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Anna Katarina - May 31, 2004 1:53 am (#789 of 2916)

...As we get back on topic....

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Star Crossed - May 31, 2004 6:44 am (#790 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
To stop the R/Hrs and H/Hrs from killing each other...

There's a quote out there (Sorry, I have no idea where) that says JKR can't tell us about teachers' spouses, because it'll show up later. To me, this seems like some of the teachers are married. Any ideas? I personally believe Snape and Sinistra have something going on, but I'm up for up for ideas.

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Diagon Nilly - May 31, 2004 7:26 am (#791 of 2916)

I would be very surprised if any of the teachers were married to each other...

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Star Crossed - May 31, 2004 7:33 am (#792 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Why?

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Diagon Nilly - May 31, 2004 7:45 am (#793 of 2916)

Well, the Yule Ball for one. Dumbledore and McGonagall were dancing with each other (we know they're not married), but with no one else. Snape was outside talking to Karkarov and partolling the rose bushes. Personally, if there was a formal dance and my spouse/co-worker didn't dance with me, they'd be sleeping in the owlry that night.

Chistmas dinner (POA) is another example. All the aforementioned teachers were there, but we know Snape, Dumbledore, McGonagall (and Trelawney) don't have anything going on with each other...so if any of them were married to other teachers, where were their spouses? Did they get ditched for the holidays? Gee, that's nice...back to the owlry for those inconsidersates!

Oh, and I won't buy an explaination about how "they don't hang out with each other in front of the students to retain a degree of professionalism." I've gone to school with teachers who are married to each other and sure, they aren't remotely affectionate in front of the students, but they don't avoid each other either.

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Dumbledore - May 31, 2004 7:50 am (#794 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I think it would make sense for at least some of the professors to be married to each other. Alot of them have been working together a long time, so I think it's fairly safe to say that a couple of them may be married to each other, although we will never know until JK Rowling herself divulges that information. It could really go either way.

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Diagon Nilly - May 31, 2004 7:58 am (#795 of 2916)

Okay, let me rephrase then...none of the "major characters" would be married to other teachers. But if Grubbly-Plank were married to....some other teacher of non-disclosed gender but also a minor charcter...I wouldn't be surprised.

Actually, I can think of a few female minor character (rarely mentioned) teachers, but I can't think of any male teachers who are minor charcters. Binns doesn't count as he's a ghost and Flitwick because he's an elf-goblin-thing.

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Dumbledore - May 31, 2004 8:13 am (#796 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I think I can agree with that Diagon Nilly. However, I think that possibly some of the major professors might be married to someone outside of Hogwarts. It's nice to think that Dumbledore has someone waiting for him back home knitting him socks!! :-)

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Star Crossed - May 31, 2004 8:27 am (#797 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Like Mrs. Weasley's mother or something. Maybe even grandmother. Hmmm...

I have a strong feeling that McGonagall is married, too, but I don't think he works at Hogwarts. Maybe he does something else or who knows. But I see her being married.

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Diagon Nilly - May 31, 2004 8:31 am (#798 of 2916)

I absolutely think at least one of the major teacher characters are married to someone outside of Hogwarts...maybe has kids even. The fun is trying to figure out who...

...Snape maybe? Perhaps that's why he never eats the food at school or at order headquarters. "Nothing else can compare to the little woman's pumpkin pasties...Hey! Snape junior! Never stick your finger in that part of a puffskein!"

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Star Crossed - May 31, 2004 8:41 am (#799 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nuuu. Snape/Sinistra forever! Razz

Professor Hagrid needs some love. And...some real treats. Wonder if Maxine can cook. She can't be any worse than Hagrid.

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Fawkes Forever - May 31, 2004 9:11 am (#800 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Well, apart from Harrys view of the faculty... we don't really know that much about them. We don't even know where the teachers dorms are, or if all the teachers live in the school.

We do know that Dumbledore, Mc Gonagal, Madame Poppy, Snape & Fake Moody have been present in the school at night... so do we assume that they live there? As for the others, it's possible that if they are married, they live with their spouse & or families in Hogsmeade... or elsewhere. Does it ever mention what teachers eat breakfast in the great hall?

It's an interesting thought however. If any of the teachers are married... are they married to another Hogwarts teacher? Hmmm, the mystery goes on...

EDIT : oh post 800... cool!

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Post  Elanor on Sun May 15, 2011 2:05 am

rambkowalczyk - May 31, 2004 9:26 am (#801 of 2916)
I often think of McGonagall as being a widow, that her husband was killed by a dark lord. In spite of her sternness she seems capable of love.

Snape, heartthrob that Rickman is, can't see him married. I don't think he can trust anyone. Also having been a deatheater would put any one that he loves at risk from Lord Voldemort. (Betray the dark Lord,your wife dies a slow torturous death.) He wouldn't do that.

Flitwick has a spouse. He always seems happy and balanced. As to not bringing her to the Yule Ball, some teachers prefer not to blend their private lives with their professional ones. If Flitwick was at on the Christmas dinners maybe his wife got called away or something. Maybe Flitwick has a mixed marriage to a goblin or something.

Dumbledore and Madame Pomphrey: They have a relationship thats more than professional.

Professor Sprout most likely is married. I will admit I almost never think of her but she seems like someone who could fall in love.

I think Hagrid was infatuated with McGonagall before having met Madame Maxine. It is probably through Hagrid we find out Hogwart's policy on married teachers.

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Diagon Nilly - May 31, 2004 9:34 am (#802 of 2916)

Albus and Poppy sitting in a tree?

I never really got that impression about them. I'm curious as to what inspired that thought...

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Star Crossed - May 31, 2004 9:38 am (#803 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
SS where Albus blushed when Poppy complimented his ear muffs?

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Dumbledore - May 31, 2004 9:39 am (#804 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
There was a quote in one of the books (I'm not sure which one) by Dumbledore saying that he had never blushed so hard since Madam Pomphrey complimented him on his earmuffs (or something like that). That's the only clue that I could come up with that would point to a Dumbledore/Pomphrey relationship.

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Dumbledore - May 31, 2004 9:54 am (#805 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I wrote that the same time you did, Star Crossed! I guess we are on the same wavelength!

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Diagon Nilly - May 31, 2004 10:06 am (#806 of 2916)

Ooh, I forgot about that. Yes, that is interesting. My only qualm about Dumbledore having a "special relationship" with anyone working at the school because it's usually considered unethical for the "boss" to date employees for a myriad of reasons. I have to remind myself that we're not dealing with the real world though, and they'd be awfully cute together.

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Star Crossed - May 31, 2004 12:29 pm (#807 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Perhaps that is why Poppy makes all her patients eat chocolate and not Bertie Bott's to improve their health. Her husband doesn't like them. Wink

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SarcasticGinny - May 31, 2004 2:34 pm (#808 of 2916)

I forgot about the Hagrid/McGonagall kiss in SS and subsequent blush and giggle on her part. Too much wine or mead for both of them or something to talk about?

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S.E. Jones - May 31, 2004 6:18 pm (#809 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I think it's hard to tell with the Heads of House because anytime we see them they may be on the clock (i.e. working). At the Christmas dinner, all the teachers present were (excluding Trewlany and Dumbledore) were Heads of House. They may be required to be present for certain events at Hogwarts instead of home with their spouses. They may not bring a spouse to such an event because they are working and want to be on the lookout for students who aren't behaving themselves, or because they feel it is a "work party" and their spouse wouldn't enjoy it, depending on the circumstances. However, I think JKR's quote refers to a spouse a teacher had (as in the past tense). I agree with the idea of maybe McGonagall have had a husband at one time. Personally, though, I think the far more intersting question is, since everything is from Harry's point-of-view, how would we find out about it?

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Star Crossed - May 31, 2004 6:52 pm (#810 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

clears throat*

Severus Snape seemed to float into class that lovely day of October, "Turn your books to page 396." Pause, "Oh, I'm married to Sinistra, just so you know." Pause again, "Well, what are you waiting for? Start working! Weasley, ten points from Gryffindor for smiling. No smiling in my class!"

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rambkowalczyk - Jun 1, 2004 3:29 am (#811 of 2916)

My impression of Albus and Poppy was based on Dumbledore blushing about the earmuffs. For some reason I imagine them sharing hot chocolate while they talk late at night.

I think Harry will find out if Hagrid marries Madame Maxine, and he'll accidently let slip about other teachers being married.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 1, 2004 3:52 am (#812 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I like it Star Crossed!

I once heard a suggestion, as for how we'd find out, that the new DADA teacher will either be a staff member's spouse, or they will be someone Harry knows or gets to know and who is married, thus introducing us to the spouses of the staff. Not nearly as entertaining as Star Crossed idea, though....

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Catherine - Jun 1, 2004 4:07 pm (#813 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Diagon Nilly - May 31, 2004 7:45 am (#793 of 813)----referring to this post, I think there might be a misunderstanding.

I'm being such a party pooper, as usual, but Dumbledore and McGonagall did not dance with each other at the Yule Ball: Dumbldore danced with Madame Maxime. I haven't reread that chapter in depth, but I think I'm right.

It doesn't matter, really, unless we draw conclusions from it.

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Star Crossed - Jun 1, 2004 4:21 pm (#814 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Tis true, because I just re-read that, and Dumbledore's hat barely tickled her chin.

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Liz - Jun 1, 2004 4:47 pm (#815 of 2916)

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And remember, Dumbledore was (thin and tall) to begin with.

Beth

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Diagon Nilly - Jun 1, 2004 5:06 pm (#816 of 2916)

Oops, that's right. But, you know, Maxime and McGonagall look very similar from behind...anyone could make that mistake.

runs away*

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S.E. Jones - Jun 3, 2004 2:55 am (#817 of 2916)

Let it snow!
For any Ron-Hermione 'shippers who might be interested, I found something rather interesting while perusing Sugarquills forum tonight. Click the link and scroll down till you see "Quote" in black, followed by a white box, all in the first message, and read from there. Very interesting thoughts!

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Liz - Jun 3, 2004 2:21 pm (#818 of 2916)

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I think the Trio have a checks and balance thing going on so really it's just an open field.

Beth

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Czarina II - Jun 3, 2004 10:33 pm (#819 of 2916)

Hermione is a natural "fixer-upper" in the sense that she feels that she ought to fix everyone's problems. It seems to come from her being a perfectionist. Harry doesn't want to be fixed. Ron actually tries to change. Both boys listen to Hermione's advice because they know she is the smartest among them, but where Harry sees himself as separate (rightly so, as he is the one in the Prophecy, etc., etc., etc.), Ron does not. He laps up her advice like a puppydog. He is actually MESMERIZED in OoP when Hermione goes into a great long speech about Cho's (and presumeably her own) feelings. Harry nods off -- his mind is on other things, not Hermione. Here are my interpretations of their reactions:

Hermione: "(long ranting thought very thorough and revealing explanation)" finishes

Ron: thinks "WOW!!! I can't believe she could know all that! That's bloody confusing! You've lost me, Hermione, explain it again."

Harry: thinks "My, I'm glad she's finally shut her mouth! What does all that have to do with anything? I'm lost, anyhow. Thanks for nothing, Hermione."

I mean, hey -- Harry HAS just been dumped!

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Norbert not a common welsh green - Jun 7, 2004 8:21 am (#820 of 2916)

I think that its clear that Ron likes Hermione but I don't think she likes him. She appears to like Harry,in GoF she is angry that he does not ask her to the dance & only goes with Krum to get him Jealous (but its Ron who ends up being Jealous) Shes seems to be a bit Jealous of Cho but does not show it very much, She also gives up her holiday to be with him. I also think that Harry is the only one of the trio who has not figerd out who likes who. Ron likes Hermione but knows she likes Harry so he tries to get him & Ginny together(he is also fairly happy when he gets together with Cho)in the hope Hermione will give up on Harry and go to him. and for sevrel reasons said before its clear Hermione knows Ron likes her.

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Hagsquid - Jun 7, 2004 8:26 am (#821 of 2916)

This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
I got exactly the opposite impression from GoF. Hermoine even says to Ron "if you don't like it, maybe you should ask me first next time, instead of using me as a last option."

etc.

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Catherine - Jun 7, 2004 9:26 am (#822 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I agree with Hagsquid's last post.

In my opinion, the tension was between Ron and Hermione, not between Harry and Hermione. She is angry that Ron wants to go with "the best-looking person who'll have him" and that Ron suddenly realizes, "Hermione, you are a girl!" Ron's intense desire to know who Hermione's attending the Yule Ball with, his subsequent jealousy of Krum, his rudeness toward Padma, and the screaming match Hermione and Ron engage in later shows to me that they like each other.

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tracie1976 - Jun 7, 2004 10:28 am (#823 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I think Hermione is more ticked off than anything at Yule Ball time. Ron is looking for a "pretty" girl and he does not consider Hermione as "pretty" until she shows up on Krum's arm. So she retaliates by saying well you should have not left me for your last choice.

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Hagsquid - Jun 7, 2004 10:37 am (#824 of 2916)

This is me listening to OoP for the umteenth time.
Actually, the more important bit in that conversation (to me) was the "next time ASK ME before someone else does."

To me, it says that Hermoine wishes Ron would have asked her first, and hopes that he thinks of her first in the future.

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Acceber - Jun 7, 2004 2:57 pm (#825 of 2916)

Ruler of Omeletteheads
I know this is way off topic, but I was reading OoP the other day and found something really weird. I'll have you know, I'm a H/G, R/H shipper from the bottom of my heart, but I have a nagging suspicion it might turn out differently. Here are two quotes:
"...Harry, after attempting to flatten his hair while staring at his reflection in the back of a teaspoon..."-page 556, American.

"...Parvati was curling her eyelashes around her wand and examining the effect in the back of her spoon."-page 599.

Both Harry and Parvati use the backs of their spoons as a mirror. Now I have no idea if this means nothing and is coincidental, but with JKR, there normally is no such thing as coincidence.

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haymoni - Jun 7, 2004 3:18 pm (#826 of 2916)

I've never been able to see anything clearly in the back of a spoon. I look like (SPOILER) the long faces scene in POA.

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- Aug 24, 2008 5:00 pm (#827 of 2916)


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Denise P. - Jun 7, 2004 3:52 pm (#828 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
I moved a post from Jazhara Ravenclaw from this thread to the PoA movie thread.

Please keep in mind that the general discussion threads are for events that take place in the books NOT the movies. Events in the movies should be discussed only in the movie threads.

If you have a question, email me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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tracie1976 - Jun 7, 2004 4:20 pm (#829 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
A lot of people use the back of their spoons to either look at themselves or at things behind them without being noticed. So I find this very coincendental and meaning absolutely nothing.

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draco all the way - Jun 8, 2004 1:52 am (#830 of 2916)

There's not a chance that it will be Harry and Parvati. He hates her because she's annoying,giggly...and like most normal girls. It is my opinion that Harry will be alone, dead or with Luna in the end.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 8, 2004 7:46 am (#831 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Draco ATW, don't you think "hate" is perhaps a bit too strong of a word here?

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draco all the way - Jun 8, 2004 8:36 am (#832 of 2916)

Okay not hate, I didn't mean that. I meant annoyed. Anywho, Parvati so not Harry's type. He needs someone level headed and someone who takes life more seriously. Parvti considering her happy go lucky lifestlye would not fit with Harry, who's life is always complicated. I didn't mean hate. It's just I'm not too good without my ever trusty thesaurus.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 8, 2004 9:57 am (#833 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jun 8, 2004 9:59 am
You are correct. Parvati, Lavender, Susan, and Hannah are not really Harry's type. None of them have any weight of character.

Hermione is certainly heavy enough, but she seems destined for Ron. Ginny is yesterday's news. She's moved on, and she ain't commin' back. Luna is just too, well loony.

Who does that leave for Harry? Who else has the weight of character for him? Perhaps Fleur, but she seems too much out of Harry's league. Four years older, an adult witch in her own right, and involved with Bill Weasley at the moment. I do find it interesting that Rowling is keeping her around and available.

I can tell you whom I think it is, but what about you?

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Star Crossed - Jun 8, 2004 10:28 am (#834 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
My vote is for Daphne Greengrass. Life would go on without her mention, but she's still in there. Gotta be for a reason.

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Catherine - Jun 8, 2004 10:33 am (#835 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
No, Marcus, we can't imagine who you think is right for Harry! Wink

SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC COMMENT ABOUT MOVIE PANSY: The girl cast as Pansy in PoA (at least from the very brief glimpses I got of her) appeared to be quite classically pretty, and as a "movie couple" Harry and Pansy would be stunning together. She was cast in such a way that I was reminded of how Sirius and Bellatrix had shining dark hair and great good looks.

BUT, back to the book 'ships and Harry...I'm not so certain that we've seen the last of Susan Bones. She appears to understand how becoming a celebrity through the murder of family members is horrible. In the Hog's Head, she was more interested in Harry's ability to produce a corporeal Patronus than in what happened in the cemetary with Cedric and Voldemort the previous summer. She was also one of the people who leapt to Harry's defense on the Hogwarts Express at the end of PoA.

Susan and Harry have a small understanding between them that could blossom into real friendship. I also think that being friends with Susan could have a desirable side effect of helping Harry's reputation inside the Ministry of Magic. Susan's aunt is Madame Bones, and she could very well influence who does, and does not, get accepted for auror training.

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haymoni - Jun 8, 2004 11:57 am (#836 of 2916)

I could see Harry & Susan but I really WANT Harry & Pansy - what a slap in the face for Draco!!

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Green Eyes - Jun 8, 2004 1:59 pm (#837 of 2916)

I think its pretty obvious that it will be H/Ginny and R/Hermione...I don't think JKR cares if we figure out who will be with whom...any romantic tendencies between characters are subplots and relieve us from and balance out the main story line of how Harry will overcome Voldemort.

Before I read any of the books, I saw the COS movie...when Harry enters the chamber and sees Ginny laying on the floor, I was immediately reminded of the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale. In the movie also you see two cutaway shots where Harry is placing his hand over Ginny's...I saw this as foreshadowing.

Having read the books, especially OOTP, I am even more convinced in H/G for any number of examples. The most important scene between them however, is the library scene. This scene can be read on two levels. The first and obvious one is the literal scene where Ginny finds Harry and gives him the Easter egg to cheer him up and at the same time gives him some hope about being able to talk to Sirius.

Take that same scene and apply the conversation between them to the larger picture, i.e. the whole series and what you have is Ginny asking Harry to snap out of his funk and pay attention to her..."Harry, I'm talking to you. Can you hear me?" She then hands him a life/rebirth/fertility symbol in the Easter egg and they both eat from it. When he says he knows he CAN'T ( talk to Sirius/defeat Voldemort), she says basically yes you can...if you've got enough nerve (Courage/faith/confidence). Ginny helps Harry. Hermione, while she loves Harry as a friend, mothers him and is constantly telling him NO YOU CAN'T...witness this just a couple of pages after the library scene when she realizes what Harry wants to do. As the one with the power to defeat the dark lord, he needs to be told YES YOU CAN!!!!!

Cho was the red herring to divert us from Ginny. She has occupied Harry's mind for three books in the romantic department... now at the end of OOTP we see her fading as a disappointment and Ginny beginning to shine.

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Padfoot - Jun 8, 2004 2:31 pm (#838 of 2916)

I think its pretty obvious that it will be H/Ginny and R/Hermione

I don't think it's obvious that Harry will end up with Ginny. There is a possibility that it could happen. However Jo hasn't been giving us as many clues in that pairing as she has with Ron and Hermione. Certainly Ginny is a good and supportive friend of Harry's. I don't have anything against that relationship, I just don't see it as obvious as you do.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 8, 2004 2:43 pm (#839 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Yes, Susan is a possibility, but as it is now I don't see it. The biggest problem I have with her, along with Parvati, Padma, Lavender and Hannah is that we have seen very little of their personalities. What makes any of these five girls different personality-wise from each other? I am afraid not much. They are fairly interchangeable. What can be said for one personality-wise can be said for them all. Parvati likes ornate butterflies in her hair, but that's about it.

Of course, Rowling could start distinguishing "the one" anytime she chooses, but I doubt she is the kind of writer to leave that until the last second. She started Ron and Hermione's relationship fairly early. Why wait so late for Harry?

So, which girls have distinguished themselves from the pack? There's Hermione, Ginny, Luna, Fleur, Cho, Marietta, Angelina, and Pansy. Any one else? (I don't include Millicent since no one can distinguish her from Crabbe or Goyle!)

Herminone : Destined for Ron. I don't like it, but it seems inevitable.
Ginny : Yesterday's news. Neither Harry or Ginny thinks twice about each other now.
Luna : There is little doubt she will become more important to Harry's story, but as his 'ship? I don't see it. She is too loony. Harry doesn't need the aggrevation.
Fleur : Moved on, though Rowling is keeping her handy.
Cho : Moved on.
Marietta : Not a chance. She caused far too much trouble, and she would remind Harry of Cho.
Angelina : Strong girl, but she's now gone. I doubt we will ever see her again.
Pansy : There's a whole thread on this. Her biggest problem is the need to reform.
Any others?

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Catherine - Jun 8, 2004 2:59 pm (#840 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
This post may fit better under "clues from the movies," but bear with me anyway, as it mostly concerns relationships.

The PoA movie Ron keeps emphasizing how "mental" Hermione is. Marcus's post about how Luna is too crazy for Harry made me think "hmmmm..."

I do think everything points to a definite Ron/Hermione 'ship at this time. But we know that "Loony Lovegood" comes into the picture later. Maybe Ron really notices the "mental" ones. The PoA movie Hermione calls Ron "Ronald" when she's aggravated with him. But Luna always calls Ron "Ronald" from the start.

So maybe Luna sees Ron in a different way? Maybe Ron is destined to be with someone "mental," after all, but Luna instead of Hermione? It could be a good match. After all, Luna's grown up motherless since the age of 9, and appears to be an only child. Molly is quite the mother hen who welcomes other kids into her family.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 8, 2004 3:00 pm (#841 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jun 8, 2004 3:09 pm
Green Eyes, these are certainly valid reasons to think of a Harry/Ginny 'ship. However, you can take every single one of your supports and multiply them by ten for a Harry/Hermione 'ship.

Be very careful about foreboding. You can make it mean anything you want. If you want foreboding, consider who ended up in the hospital wing with antlers on her head, and then think of whose family is strongly associated with creatures with prominent racks of antlers.

Ginny is a lovely girl. Harry and she are strong, supportive friends. There is little doubt Ginny sympathizes with Harry and wants to ease his pain if she can. However, it is permissible to provide compassionate service to someone without being their "special friend", or wanting to be. If that weren't the case, then Harry/Hermione is the only 'ship that has a chance!

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 8, 2004 3:07 pm (#842 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Catherine,

A Ron/Luna 'ship would certainly open up the (for me) logical Harry/Hermione 'ship, but unfortunately I think JKR has invested too much into the the R/H 'ship to let it go now.

Good suggestion, though.

Marcus

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Star Crossed - Jun 8, 2004 4:54 pm (#843 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jun 8, 2004 4:56 pm
Something that amused me greatly in OP, and made me think R/Hr right away is the party after Ron and Hermione get their badges. Due to the book shape, a certain line goes like this:

Congratulations Ron and Hermione
New Gryffindor Prefects

Or something like that, but the point is, New Gryffindor Prefects is on the next line, so at first, all you see is 'Congratulations Ron and Hermione'. What do people write on banners when they get married? 'Congratulations [name] and [name]'. Maybe I'm looking too far into it, but it really amused me.

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tracie1976 - Jun 8, 2004 4:58 pm (#844 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Don't get too excited Star Crossed. People have been comparing Ron to Lupin and Hermione to Lily when it comes to the prefect positions. Yes, Ron and Hermione become prefects in the 5th year like Lupin and Lily. But as we all know James is Head Boy in their 7th year along with Lily.......and Harry is always compared to James

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Star Crossed - Jun 8, 2004 5:05 pm (#845 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ron to Lupin? Never saw that comparison. Not saying it's not possible, just saying I've never seen it. What really bothers me is people comparing Hermione to Lily, and Harry to James, and saying they *have* to get married because Lily was muggleborn and smart, and so is Hermione. And James looks just like Harry. So that means they have to get together. It is their choices who they marry, not Fate of Mirror Images. So they are semi-alike. Doesn't mean they'll get married.

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tracie1976 - Jun 8, 2004 5:15 pm (#846 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
You've never seen that comparison? Wow I think I surf the net too much so I really can't give a link lol. Anyways....the looks don't really count unless like H/G shippers use Lily's red hair and compare it to Ginny's hair color for a reason for them to get together is somewhat bothers me too. But also I've read JKR repeats things, so why would Lupin say something along the lines of Lily being one of the smartest witches of her age and then it is also used along the same lines to describe Hermione. Yes, I know the one line about Lily was in the movie, but a lot of people use that scene for forshadowing books 6 and 7. *shuts up now I think I'm straying off subject*

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S.E. Jones - Jun 8, 2004 5:50 pm (#847 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Tracie: Yes, Ron and Hermione become prefects in the 5th year like Lupin and Lily.

It's never stated that Lily was a prefect. I made the same assumption too after hearing another member mention it but someone set me straight. There is no mention of her having a badge or getting one.

Also, I've never seen Ron compared to Lupin either and I've never cared much for comparisons between Harry and James. Harry seems more like Sirius in terms of circumstance and independent personality, Hermione like Lily in terms of circumstance and caring nature. I've seen some comparisons between Ron and James in terms of character developments.

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draco all the way - Jun 9, 2004 1:35 am (#848 of 2916)

Lupin is quiet, mature and sensible. His only drawback is his inability to handle his friends. Ron on the other hand is loud, outspoken, and rash. He is the one in the trio that gets riled up easily and jumps to conclusions the most. Ron and Lupin are not alike but I still believe that it'll be R/H. And, Starcrossed, I really got a kick out of reading that banner in OotP as well!

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 9, 2004 8:53 am (#849 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jun 9, 2004 8:53 am
Drawing parallels between the two generations can get tricky very fast. As a H/P shipper, I could say that Harry and Pansy are destined for each other since James and Lily didn't get along at least through their fifth year. The fact that Pansy and Lily are both names of flowers cinches it.

NOT!

There is the problem that by the time of the O.W.L.s, James was actively trying to impress Lily. Harry isn't trying to impress anyone at the present time. James and Lily were both in the same house. Harry and Pansy are not. And Lily was a self-sacrificing person willing to stand up for unpopular students. Pansy loves to make fun of others.

So be careful with parallels between the two generations. They tend to break down rather quickly.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 1:23 pm (#850 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I've noticed that there's quite a lot resembalence between HRH and the marauders than most think.Ron seems to have many characteristics of Sirius.Both are brave,loyal,eager to help their friends and have carefree attitudes.Both seem to be quite tall as well.He's the one who defends Sirius' reckless acts from his friends (especially Hermione).

Harry, well he looks like James.Sirius sometimes talks of Harry as James and feels that he has his best friend back (Harry has no problem with it).Both are/were brave, are good Quidditch players and trust their friends a lot -a lot more than I would anyway, no saying when would one stab your back and spit on your face (just joking)! Both may not be as bright as Prongs and padfoot but they're only in their fifth year.

Hermione, like Lily is a mudb- I mean a muggle born.Hermione is very bright.Lily might have been. (I'm judging from the fact that Lily was a headgirl and MAYBE a Prefect. Both (Lily and Hermione) are kind and back the underdogs. From the bridge scene in the movie, Lily seems to have "understood" Lupin when no one would or could. Doesn't Hermione always help Neville?

By the way don't Neville and Moony have some what similar childhoods? Neville's childhood was unhappy because of attacks on his parents,while Lupin's was sad because of his being a Werewolf.There both afraid that there friends would find out the truth.

In the end though, Lily paired with James. Doesn't take a genius to figure who pairs with Hermione.It looks to be HJP/HJG all the way.

P.S- I wanted to post the 850th post but no one seems to want to post the 849th

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Lady Nagini - Jun 15, 2004 1:34 pm (#851 of 2916)
Edited by Jun 15, 2004 1:34 pm
You have to be extremely careful when comparing the two generations -- parallels can be drawn wherever you want. I personally like the comparison where Draco mirrors James and Harry mirrors Snape. The theory is based on how, so far, we think that James (and the Marauders) bullied Snape, while Draco and his gang regularly pick on HRH. Draco and James are/were both incredibly cocky, raised in well-known wizarding families, and fairly popular. Harry and Snape are both from (we assume) less...supportive...households. Snape was decidedly unpopular as a student, and Harry, although famous, is not necessarily always popular. I think this comparison further shows how JKR emphasizes not House or personality or "side" in the war, but how choices shape your destiny.

By this merit, you could support the D/Hr 'ship (Lily ended up with James: Hermione will end up with Draco). This is highly unlikely. I don't think JKR was looking for parallels between generations as a rule to live by, but rather as a general comparison in terms of literary themes.

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 2:09 pm (#852 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I am quite in agreeance with Lady Nagini. You could also say Harry/Ginny, just because Harry looks like James and Ginny sort of looks like Lily. It could just go on and on and on, but it means nothing.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 2:18 pm (#853 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I knew someone would say that. Lily hated James. But remember even Hermione did not speak to Harry and Ron early in the first book. Possibly, they might not have become friends had it not been for the timely intervention of mountain troll. Had there been a troll during the marauder's time, Lily and James would've been friends since their first year, we never know.

As far as the James-Sirius vs Snape goes, we read only Snape's point of view. James' memory might contain an incident where the fight would have started because of Snape.

I also beg to disagree with your Draco mirrors James and Harry mirrors Snape argument.Remember James had a reason for loathing Snape-his obsession with Dark Arts(That was a time when Lord Voldemort was on his killing spree).On the other hand, Malfoy hates Ron, Hermione and Harry for being poor, Muggle born and being "The Boy Who Lived respectively. Sirius himself says that James hated the dark arts while Snape and maybe even Malfoy seem to be interested in them.(Malfoy actually conjured a snake in second year)

Finally, you can't decide a man's rather a Boy's character from a single incident.(look at how Sirius is or rather was after Azkaban; wasn't he just like James in the memory?)

Draco/Hermione? No way!

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 2:20 pm (#854 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, I'm pretty sure Snape told Malfoy to conjure the snake in the duel.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 2:24 pm (#855 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I think so too. But to conjure something of that sort wouldn't you require practise?

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 2:27 pm (#856 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It all depends on how well you concentrate. The problem with most of the students is they don't concentrate. Look at the example in OP (Please, please excuse me if I got this from a fanfic) when HRH are in Charms trying to silence animals. Harry and Ron can't do it, because they aren't concentrating, they're talking. Also, maybe Draco might be good in charms and such.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 2:35 pm (#857 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
You're right it is not from a FanFic.It's Chapter 18 page 333 british version of OotP.

P.S.-No post in six days and 6 in an hour.

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 2:37 pm (#858 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yay! I'm not completely brainwashed from fanfic yet!

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 2:47 pm (#859 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
In that case I may suggest you to read some at portkey.org. It made me a HP/HG shipper though I don't know about Ron yet.Lavender or one of the Patils maybe; has anyone thought of a Ron/Cho ship yet? I would like to hear Harry's reaction to that.

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 2:53 pm (#860 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That turned one of my friends H/Hr. Personally, I can't see anything other than Ron/Hermione. I think we can all agree Ron fancies Hermione. I've had people who are very loyal H/Hr even admit Ron fancies her.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 3:03 pm (#861 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Even I agree Ron fancies Hermione but you can't clap with one hand(or without other).I think Hermione went with Krum because she wanted to make Harry jealous but instead, Ron got jealous. I wonder if Harry had asked her after being rejected by Cho to the ball, would she have got as angry as she did when Ron asked? I don't think so. They don't have many arguments when Harry is not behaving recklessly.

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Accio Book Six - Jun 15, 2004 3:13 pm (#862 of 2916)

Personally I sort of see Tornedo's parallels a bit more, Lady nagini. What I took, and others I've talked to, from the seen Harry sees in the Penseive is that James is not the one fully at fault. I felt like, while james might have been the instigator THIS time, (remember that this is SNAPE'S bad memory, NOT James') Snape was pretty mean to James et. al probably a lot too. I can't see James just being mean to Snape for no reason. I bet he was a total jerk to James, just like Draco is to Harry. I mean, when provoked, Harry HAS been known to retaliate... right? James was mean to Snape there, but Snape got pretty snippy himself there, and the whole incident wouldn't have gone on so long if it weren't for him. Oh, and Snape wasn't that unpopular... he hung out with all the future Death Eaters, remember? I don't think you can compare harry with a death eater.

Ok, I know this sounded off topic, but I just wanted to say that because as someone who adores Harry and the people he loves, I almost take offence to the thought of a comparison like Lady Nagini said. Not that I take offense to YOU, OR your ideas, Lady, it's just the thought of that comparison makes me a bit angry. And I know you were just mentioning that theory because it seems unlikely and you wanted to prove to people that they shouldn't take such stock in multi-generation comparisons, but I just wanted to discount that comparrison as best I could!

wow... I'm such a geek, I'm just so emotionally involved with Harry!

Oh, and back on topic, As much as I like your theory, tornedo, and as much as I see a connection between Hermione and Lily, i still just hope to see Hermione and Ron and Harry and Ginny! Call me a hopeless romantic...

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 3:26 pm (#863 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I can't belive it. How many R/H shippers I meet every day inspite of all the evidence against it! H/G though seems to be a bit different. Actually, I think it is not so obvious after Book 2- Which makes me think(and fear) it's going to come true.I really won't be surprised though if Ginny doesn't make it through book 7.

P.S.- I think every R/H shipper should read the essay-"Partner and Friends:Evolving relationship between Harry and Hermione" at Lexicon

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Lady Nagini - Jun 15, 2004 3:56 pm (#864 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 15, 2004 4:03 pm
Whoa, there. Hold on, guys. I wasn't saying that any of these intergeneration theories are rock solid; they aren't. That's the point. I'm just not sure at all that they're so clean-cut, what with people proposing that the Gryffs from the HRH era parallel the Gryffs from the Marauder era. I'm not saying that Harry is Snape, or that he will turn Dark, or even that he has the same personality characteristics as Snape -- he doesn't. And I'm not saying that Draco will see the error of his ways, renounce his pride, and marry Hermione.

I believe that is the point I was trying to make. I apologize if I was unclear. From the one canon reference that we have so far, I am going to say that James was the aggressor in the Pensieve scene, and there was no immediate provocation by Snape. Harry has, to date, has never physically attacked Draco without immediate provocation (i.e. provocation a few minutes ago). There are definite parallels between how Draco and student James act, and how Harry and student Snape act, at least with regards to each other.

I hope I'm being clearer.

My point is, that it is extremely hard to base any sort of HRH 'ship on parallels from a previous generation, just because any case for any connection can be made.

EDIT: And in no way am I supporting D/Hr. Never. I can, however, make a case for it using the same intergenerational logic.

And Tornedo, I've read the essay. The problem with overanalyzing 'ships is that love (even fictional love) doesn't follow logic. You can interpret cannon evidence and look for clues that point to what JKR intends with a character, but it's hard to say that Harry will fall in love with Hermione because they work well together (or any number of other things).

Bleh. Maybe I'll come back when I'm feeling less up-in-arms about this.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 4:06 pm (#865 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Yeah, you are right, but still; that may have been one stray incident or may be Snape might have conviniently forgotten certain things;His provocation for example.

Madam Nagini: Well, what you say may be true, but you can't possibly mean that after pointing towards H/H ship all along, JKR is going to have a change of heart in the second-last chapter of the series. I know she loves twists but it would be a bit too much.

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Lady Nagini - Jun 15, 2004 4:09 pm (#866 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 15, 2004 4:32 pm
I though Pensieves recorded everything in a person's memory, not just what the person in question can actively recall (basically, even stuff Snape wanted to "forget" would be recorded). I think there was a discussion about this. Hmm. I'll check.

EDIT: you can't possibly mean that after pointing towards H/H ship all along, JKR is going to have a change of heart in the second-last chapter of the series.

Whoa. Where has she overtly pointed to H/Hr? If anything, she's pointed to R/Hr, what with Ron getting jealous over Viktor. Yes, Harry and Hermione work well together, and they have had exploits without Ron. So that proves that they work well together. Okay, but I don't understand how that points to a H/Hr 'ship. Maybe I'm missing something...

Oh, and no need to call me Madam anything. I'm 15, not 35.

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 4:39 pm (#867 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Again, I'm with the snake. Razz I have not seen any push towards H/Hr. I see R/Hr points. I have people I work extremely well with, but that would not mean we could ever be married or anything. Friendship and relationships are quite different.

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Lady Nagini - Jun 15, 2004 4:46 pm (#868 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 15, 2004 4:46 pm
Yup, that's what I was trying to say!

So I'm just a snake now? Haha, thanks.

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 4:49 pm (#869 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
You're oh so very welcome. Very Happy

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Accio Book Six - Jun 15, 2004 4:50 pm (#870 of 2916)

Lady Nagini, I knew you didn't believe that Harry/Snape thing, I just hate that theory so I went off about it.

I guess I wasn't clear enough in the end that I knew you were just using that as an example...

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Lady Nagini - Jun 15, 2004 4:51 pm (#871 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 15, 2004 4:52 pm
Accio, I don't even know why we're arguing (let's blame it on the heat). I just read your last post again, and I'm a diehard R/Hr & H/G shipper.

Oh, and you were clear. I was just trying to clarify my position.

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Accio Book Six - Jun 15, 2004 5:53 pm (#872 of 2916)

Ok great. On the R/Hr ship... I was just on jkrowling.com and I read the faq about whether Harry is in love with Hermione. JK's response was something like "I'm surprised you guys haven't picked up on it yet" or SOMETHING like that. Unless I'm oblivious, I haven't noticed an obvious attraction between Harry and Hermione... I think the obvious chemistry between R/Hr is just that... the obvious choice.

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 6:16 pm (#873 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Gotta love JKR. She would so very love to have us all kill each other over whether or not Harry loves Ron or Hermione. Wink I'm sorry, snake, I love you, but that typo amused me greatly.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 15, 2004 7:20 pm (#874 of 2916)

Let it snow!
"Does Harry love Ron or Hermione?"

Oh, Nagini, I actually fell off my chair I was laughing so hard!.....

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Lady Nagini - Jun 15, 2004 7:59 pm (#875 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 15, 2004 8:05 pm
Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?

I can't believe that some of you haven't worked out the answer to this one yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy. (jkrowling.com)

Here it is, guys. Sigh, I need a break from the forum. Look what you all have done to me!

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 8:02 pm (#876 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jun 15, 2004 8:04 pm
Oh, you love us. Razz Now we know the real question JKR wants us to figure out. But we all make mistakes, so I guess we can forgive you for this one. Forget it, no. But forgive, yes.

So after we discussed R/Hr, H/Hr, and R/H, what's next? I think we talked about every ship under the sun right now. Next we'll try to pair Molly with Draco just for something to do (And for the record, I did read a Draco/Molly fic.)

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Lady Nagini - Jun 15, 2004 8:06 pm (#877 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 15, 2004 8:07 pm
Forgive and forget.

Molly and Draco? Let's please not go there. What's next? Arthur/Hermione?

Ew.

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Weeny Owl - Jun 15, 2004 8:16 pm (#878 of 2916)

If you really want to get into comparisons between who may be attracted to whom, let's take Viktor Krum... whom does he resemble? Who else in the series is snarly and unpleasant? Snape... same hair, same nose, same disposition.

Does that mean I think Hermione is attracted to Snape just as she is to Viktor Krum? Nope, not at all.

In GoF Harry stated to Molly that Hermione wasn't his girlfriend. He didn't seem to be telling her what she wanted to hear, though... he seemed, to me at least, as if that's exactly what he meant. He also explained to Viktor Krum that he and Hermione are only friends. That's two references where Harry states quite clearly that he and Hermione are not boyfriend and girlfriend.

I see no change in him in OotP, but there is a distinct change in Hermione and Ron's relationship, and after her telling him in GoF that next time to ask her first (regarding the Yule Ball), it seems that they are both attracted. Hermione is just quieter about it and less tense than Ron.

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Star Crossed - Jun 15, 2004 8:20 pm (#879 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Also, I don't think the movies that JKR has so much say over would be allowed to add in so many R/Hr moments if it was going to end up being H/Hr. That seems unreal to me.

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Czarina II - Jun 15, 2004 10:34 pm (#880 of 2916)

We interrupt this ongoing debate again...

After the Yule Ball in GoF, do we hear anything more about Seamus and Lavender? I think they're well-suited for each other.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 15, 2004 11:25 pm (#881 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Wheeny:"That's two references where Harry states quite clearly that he and Hermione are not boyfriend and girlfriend."

Come on. Harry was just 14. A lot of people are idiots who don't understand their own feelings one bit during 14-16 period(I myself am one). It may also be due to the fact that at that time , he fancied Cho. I think he would speak a different tune in the sixth book with Cho out of the way.

Back to the point. We don't know that Hermione likes Ron. We only get clues because of her apparant jealousy towards Fleur. But who is she jealous of? In GoF(Ch:37; page:628 British) Hermione scowls after Fleur smiles at Ron. But whom does she scowl at? Not necessarily Fleur.She might have Scowled at RON because of his tone(he speaks in a strangled sort of voice).Secondly, we never know how long she had that expression since it is Harry's POV. It might be since Fleur came to talk to Harry in the first place.

The second incident is in chapter 26 (sorry I forgot the page number). After second task, Fleur kisses Harry and Ron and Hermione becomes furious. Is she furious because she hates Fleur or because she has just kissed Ron and/OR Harry? Would we ever know? Apart from these two incidents; there are no( at least I haven't spotted any) incidents where Hermione seems to have shown any feelings for Ron and their constant bickering might work against them.

Lady Nagini: Did I say Madame? I meant to say Lady.

Czarina, I think Seamus/Lavender ship does seem to be quite good. But I wonder why JKR hasn't mentioned them together even once during 769 pages of OotP.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 15, 2004 11:53 pm (#882 of 2916)

Let it snow!
There's also the Krum/summer thing. Hermione, while discussing the prospect of visiting Krum for the summer, purposely avoids Ron's eyes (i.e. she's trying not to look at him) and is blushing (this could be because she's embarrassed for several reasons). She doesn't, however, even try to avoid looking at Harry at that point. There are little things like this throughout the books that, to me, point to Hermione having feelings for Ron.

(GoF, ch27, pg513, US):
"No, it's just... how did she know Victor asked me to visit him over the summer?"

Hermione blushed scarlet as she said this and determinedly avoided Ron's eyes.

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Lady Nagini - Jun 16, 2004 12:11 am (#883 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 16, 2004 12:13 am
Hermione gets angry at Fleur after, and only after, she kisses Ron.

Fleur bent down, kissed Harry twice on each cheek...then said to Ron, "And you too -- you 'elped--"

"Yeah," said Ron, looking extremely hopeful, "yeah, a bit--"

Fleur swooped down on him too and kissed him. Hermione looked simply furious... (US GoF 506)

And as for Hermione 'scowling' at Fleur/Ron/Harry, here is the cite. Interpret it as you will.

Ron was still goggling at the girl as though he had never seen one before. Harry started to laugh. The sound seemed to jog Ron back to his senses.

"She's a veela!" he said hoarsely to Harry.

"Of course she isn't!" said Hermione tartly. "I don't see anyone else gaping at her like an idiot!" (US GoF 252)

IMHO, Hermione only becomes irritated when Ron is entranced by Fleur, not when Harry does so. Also, Harry doesn't ever display the childish infatuation that Ron seems to -- if Hermione truly liked Harry, why would she be annoyed at Fleur?

P.S. Sarah, Aly -- did I get those references right?

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Sir Tornado - Jun 16, 2004 2:59 am (#884 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Lady Nagini :"Hermione only becomes irritated when Ron is entranced by Fleur, not when Harry does so. Also, Harry doesn't ever display the childish infatuation that Ron seems to -- if Hermione truly liked Harry, why would she be annoyed at Fleur? "

By the way HG seems to be irritated with HP during world cup. As for HG being irritated with RW--I'm not sure really, but I think she was ANNOYED with Fleur since she LAUGHED during Headmaster's speech.

Doesn't Hermione pull back harry instead of Ron at the world cup? While doing so, she asks, "Harry, what are you doing?" We know that even Ron is standing just like Harry at the edge of the box. She doesn't even acknowledge that.

About the Krum/Summer thing and Hermione's blushes,I am guessing 2 reasons.

1)Everytime Ron mentions Krum, Hermione is reminded of Yule Ball incident and the embaressment after Skeeter article.

2)I don't really know this, but I think Hermione is entitled to be embarresed when she is asked about Krum by her friend who accused her of "Fraternising with the Enemy"

I don't think that the fact that HG refuses to look RW in eye really counts. She may not look even Harry in the eye had he ever enquired about Krum.

Nagini: "Ron was still goggling at the girl as though he had never seen one before. Harry started to laugh. The sound seemed to jog Ron back to his senses.

"She's a veela!" he said hoarsely to Harry.

"Of course she isn't!" said Hermione tartly. "I don't see anyone else gaping at her like an idiot!" (US GoF 252)"

Nagini, I did not mean that scowling incident but the one in Chapter 37 page 628 in British version.(I currently do not have my American version, sorry)-- and Hermione doesn't get angry after Fleur kisses Ron but gets angry after Fleur kisses BOTH Harry AND Ron.

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Accio Book Six - Jun 16, 2004 6:01 am (#885 of 2916)

It really feels like you're almost trying TOO hard to discount all of the proof there is that Ron and Hermione have a lot of sexual tension. I'm not saying that they have any intentions that are anything above a purely PG level, but come on... this one has been in the works for AGES.

I'm just saying that everytime some proof of R/Hr liking eachother is mentioned, the counter-proof isn't as convincing. I mean, have you even seen young teens who like eachother? They're not exacltly little Cassanovas... they tease eachother and fight with eachother because they're confused about their feelings and how to express them. NO two people in the book have more petty little squabbles than R/Hr.

Harry and Hermione love eachother, but I see NO indication that harry likes her at all. I mean, for three books, whenever he saw Cho they would mention something like a feeling in his stomach or that he thought they were pretty. There has NEVER been anything like that with harry and Hermione.

It just seems like all the proof that the H/H shippers provide is not so much evidence FOR the ship, but weak counter-evidence AGAINST the R/H ship.

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Star Crossed - Jun 16, 2004 6:36 am (#886 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Exactly. And as for Harry's feelings will be changed during book six because of Cho, well, Cho and Harry did not last the entire book. He had plenty of times to notice how pretty she was. The only time he did that was during the Yule Ball. And that was because she made herself pretty. It wasn't that mushy feeling you get when someone is pretty even in trainers and sweats. He just passes her off. And besides, I don't think anyone answered my question: Can't we all agree that Ron obviously fancies Hermione? (I think I posted that. Now I'll have to go back and see.)

And yes, I believe you did THAT post correctly. Razz

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Rosmerta - Jun 16, 2004 7:38 am (#887 of 2916)

Ron definitely fancies Hermione! And I still cant believe how many H/H shippers are still out there! I think theres just too much proof for R/H, and too much against H/H. Something I haven't seen mentioned is how (forgive me I have no book access right now) when Ron and Harry are having the big fight in GOF, doesnt Harry keep mentioning how he is getting tired of spending so much time with Hermione? Deosn't sound like someone who likes her to me...

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Accio Book Six - Jun 16, 2004 8:19 am (#888 of 2916)

Exactly! Harry gets bored with JUST her, and as anyone who has ever been in a long term relationship can attest, that is not a good sign of a relationship. And also remember that Harry DOESN"T run to Hermione for every problem like some of the H/H shippers claim he does as proof for their cause. He's actually usually pretty reluctant to talk to her about his problems because he knows exactly how she'll react if he tells her. He just doesn't LIKE like her. If he did, we'd know.

Oh, and as a sidenote, Harry thought Cho was pretty the first time he ever saw her at the quiddich game in CoS. He's just never been taken with Hermione that way... But RON on the other hand is just head over heels for her. And I think Hermione has always felt that way, except she's much better at keeping things to herself. I think that the last two books have had ample proof that Hermione likes Ron though. I mean, the whole POINT of Krum was just as the neccessary catalyst that R/H needed to get the ball rolling.

Here is my prediction: sometime soon in the future, Hermione will mention Krum again (only to make him jealous, just like the last time she mentioned him in OoP) and Ron will crack and just ramble on, only to realize what he's said afterwards. Awkwardness will ensue, only to be rectified by Hermione deciding they need to be more mature and telling Ron to take her on a date or something. She'll just eventually decide to address the situation in her very matter-of-fact Hermione-y way Smile

EDIT: Nice new pic, rosmerta!

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Padfoot - Jun 16, 2004 9:27 am (#889 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 16, 2004 9:29 am
As far as the Seamus/Lavender ship, there just isn't enough information yet.

I firmly think that Ron and Hermione like each other. Ron is more obvious in his feelings and yet dense to pick up on Hermione's feelings.

doesn't Harry keep mentioning how he is getting tired of spending so much time with Hermione? I don't think Harry is tired with her, he just says there isn't as much laughter (or something to that affect) as compared to Ron. I think all three enjoy spending time with each other as friends still.

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mike miller - Jun 16, 2004 9:34 am (#890 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
I threw this one out there at the PA gathering and thought it might stimulate some discussion here.

Is Tonks too old to be Harry's ship? (OK, I said it!)

I know that at this point in the story it probably doesn't fit. Also, I think Harry is too busy with more important stuff until after the defeat of Voldemort. Also, I'm not realy happy with any of Harry's possibilities closer to his age (Sorry Marcus).

I can see a relationship growing after school, as and just after Harry's entering the Auror program. The age difference will be much less important when Harry's in his early to mid-twenties. I know it's off the wall; but, I like Tonks and after all that Harry will have gone through by the end he's going to need someone who can make him laugh.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 16, 2004 11:08 am (#891 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Let me try a different tact. What is Common between Ron and Hermione apart from both of them being Harry's friend? I feel that had Harry not been there, Ron and Hermione's friendship MIGHT have been broken because of their constant bickering. Ron and Hermione MAY go out in future but would it last long?

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Accio Book Six - Jun 16, 2004 12:10 pm (#892 of 2916)

Just a quick question... how old are you, Tornedo? Smile haha, of all the couples I know, the ones who have the most solid, loving foundation are the ones that are just constantly bickering.

Just look at the CONTENTS of Ron and Hermione's bickering (except for the cat/rat one). It's not like they're fighting because they're doing hurtful things to one another or that they're enemies... they fight because they CAN... withOUT ruining their relationship. I know that my boyfriend and I bicker all the time, but it's never serious, just like Ron and Hermione.

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Rosmerta - Jun 16, 2004 12:38 pm (#893 of 2916)

I think a lot of their bickering results from their feeling for each other... lets look at their minor and major conflicts throughout the series:

1) Ron's feelings about Hermione and her "know it all" and nosy attitude in SS. (This one really counts for Harry too though, so I think I might just void this one for the purposes here).

2) Ron's teasing of Hermione for her admiration of Lockhart in COS. Harry never really teases her, but the fact that Ron does give her a hard time proves it might really get to him, or that he is jealous that Hermione doesn't feel that way for him.

3) The infamous Scabbers and Crookshanks conflict fom POA. I'm going to group this one to the Firebolt conflict since they somewhat overlap and just fuel more tension. I think its important to notice here that even thought H/R are much more angry towards each other than H/H, Harry sides with Ron. Sure its more logical to side with Ron (at least in my mind, who didnt think Crookshanks had eaten Scabbers before they knew his real identity?) but if Harry really had a soft spot for Hermione wouldn't he be a little more sympathetic towards her? I think its also important to note Hermione's reaction to Ron's declaration that he will help her with the Buckbeak case... I don't have a book but I'm pretty sure she leaps onto him crying "Oh Ron!!" Sounds a little abnormal for someone with only platonic feelings if you ask me.

4)The SPEW dislike: Again, Harry is just as guilty as Ron, so I see no real significance.

5)The Viktor Krum jealousy. Again, Harry doesnt really care, Ron is constantly bothered by it. Need I say more? Also the Yule Ball fight, I think that the fight Harry walks in on at the end of that chapter is worth remembering!

OK so since I am doing all of this from memory and the Lexicon, and have not read OOP nearly as many times as the 1st four books, I can't really remember the key "bickering" from it at the moment, so if anyone could help me out that would be great! If not I'll post it later with book access. I hope all this makes sense since I threw it all together in about 15 minutes! Feel free to correct me or add things I have forgotten!

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Julia. - Jun 16, 2004 12:49 pm (#894 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Ok, I know the movie is not canon, but I think my friend Josh hit the nail on the head when we saw the movie over the weekend. In the scene where Buckbeak was just exicuted and Hermione huged Ron, then Harry huged Hermione, when Harry huged Hermione my friend Josh said *coughthridwheelcough.* I think this hit the nail on the head. Although I will conceed that Harry and Hermione work extreemly well together, love each other very much, and are great friends, I see absoultly no sign of attraction there, on either end. There is just too much evidence pointing twards a Ron/Hermione ship for me to believe that it will turn out any other way.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 16, 2004 1:43 pm (#895 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jun 16, 2004 1:43 pm
I agree, Julia. Besides, Harry is meant for the other strong female of the series. :-)

BTW, somebody posted some time ago that Snape told Draco to conjure the snake at the dueling club. This is a common misconception that is even in the Lexicon. Actually, the text has Snape whisper something into Draco's ear. Then Draco conjures the snake.
What Snape said is never specified. We can only make assumptions.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 16, 2004 1:56 pm (#896 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I can really understand the bickering, especially considering they started as friends. Let's look at this from Ron's point of view first. Hermione goes, almost overnight in GoF, from being your buddy to being a romantic object. Wouldn't you feel like you've missed a step in between there somewhere? Wouldn't feel a bit confused about these new feelings? So how does a 14-yr-old boy handle them? He blows up for no reason. Okay, so now you're 15 and have come to grips with the fact that you're friend is a pretty girl and you like her, so what do you do about it? How do you tell one of your best friends you have feelings for them? If you tell them and they recipricate the feelings, that's wonderful! If you tell them and they don't feel the same way, you've just lost one of the best friends you've ever had. Plus, you've just put a lot of strain on your other best friend who may be torn between the two of you if you stop speaking.

Now, let's look at it from Hermione's point of view. You're looked at as just a buddy by your best friend, who you like. There's really not much you can do about it. Then, someone comes along who actually shows romantic feelings for you, and you're excited that you're actually an object of affection. Now, you're best friend suddenly notices that you're female (about time!). Wouldn't you be a bit angry that it took him this long to even notice? Wouldn't you also feel a bit confused because now your friend finally likes you but that someone else still does too (talk about bad timing!)? Okay, so you're a little older and a little wiser now. The someone else is just a pen pal (or is he?). However, the friend still hasn't made a move, even though he knows he likes you and you known he likes you. Wouldn't you feel a bit frustrated at this point? (I mean, that other guy could be writing you love letters that you're ignoring in hopes that your friend comes around, but what if he never does?)

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Sir Tornado - Jun 16, 2004 2:33 pm (#897 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Ok, I don't feel strongly towards H/H like I did 2 days ago, but there are a certain points to be taken care of.

1)When Ron does see Hermione as a girl, he never asks her to the ball. He says that she could go with ONE of them. At that point, Harry had a bigger need for a partner than Ron.(He had to open the ball) So, wouldn't Ron have blown it all for himself had Hermione agreed?

2)Harry could have a change of heart towards his feelings towards Hermione any time, even Ron would have realized this. So,why was he trying to interupt conversation(s) between Harry and Cho? He seemed quite happy when Harry broke up with Cho. That could prove to be a threat for himself if he had any feelings towards Hermione (I think he does).

3)JKR has hinted that there will be a few casualties in the war. She couldn't possibly kill Harry(remember the prophesy? only Harry can kill His Lordship. If Harry dies; Voldy takes over and that's not how it's going to end).JKR has said Hermione is her favorite character. I can't see her dying too. Haven't many requested her not to kill of Ron? JKR says that while writing childrens' stories, you have to be brutal. Does that mean Ron's going to die? Surely, if that's the case, R/H would not be possible.

P.S.-I also doubt if Ron and Hermione can fight without ruining their friendship. It's only because of Harry that they end their fights. Trust me. I'm 15 and I think so because recent expiriences of some of my friends.(I have heard plenty of bickering among my friends)

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S.E. Jones - Jun 16, 2004 2:36 pm (#898 of 2916)

Let it snow!
What is Common between Ron and Hermione apart from both of them being Harry's friend?

I've seen this argument alot in terms of an anti-R/H 'ship. "They're too different and so they won't get together but Harry and Hermione are just alike and so will get together in the end." Well, I disagree. The Trio have many similarities between each other. Ron and Hermione seem like opposites but I think that is because they are the personifications of Harry's internal struggles (i.e. decision making). They argue outloud what he's thinking inwardly because he's such a stoic character that we rarely get to see his internal workings. This also keeps Harry (and the reader) kind of neutral in the argument until a decision is reached. However, it makes Ron and Hermione look more like opposites than they really are because they are given opposing view points to argue. However, if you look at their behavior and personality, you'll see that all three of the Trio have a great deal in common.

Trio: All of them seen to like stratagy. Hermione always has a study plan and knows what comes next. Ron shows his love of stratagy through his chess skills. Harry shows he likes strategy through the way he planned things out for the DA classes.
All of them have a great desire to prove themselves (Ron to step out of his brother's shadows, Harry to step out of his own shadow, and Hermione to show she is the equal of her wizarding peers).

Harry, Hermione: Both seem to have some trouble making friends. Harry restricts himself to a very small circle and Hermione didn't have anyone until the troll incident. (Ron doesn't seem to have as much trouble hanging out with others.)
Both use more impersonal-logic. They like to make some observations before coming to a conclusion. (Ron tends to conclude things based on what he knows of people then of facts.)

Ron, Hermione: Both tend to be very vocal about ideas/opinions once they've reached a conclusion. (Harry tends to be a bit more introverted.)
Both have a real desire to be right as well. (Harry is far more likely to let an argument go.)
Both are rather insecure. (Ron's insecurities stem from his family and Hermione's from her fear of failure and internal feelings of inadequacies.)

Ron, Harry: Both love Quidditch and being active. (Hermione doesn't even seem to follow more than the basics of the sport.)
Both tend to go by the 'seat of their pants' with respect to time. (Hermione likes control and set structure and set time tables.)
Both tend to be rather laid back. (Hermione tends to be rather tightly wound.)

Also, to the bickering, I'd say that Ron and Hermione feel they have more invested in each other's opinion and so feel they have to convert the other to their way of thinking or justify their thoughts while neither really cares if Harry disagrees. (And may I point out, for the record, that Harry usually agrees with Ron but doesn't voice the opinion.) Also, I think they kind of enjoy the fighting a bit. Ron is a challenge for her. Harry would just let the argument go.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 16, 2004 2:42 pm (#899 of 2916)

Let it snow!
When Ron does see Hermione as a girl, he never asks her to the ball. He says that she could go with ONE of them. At that point, Harry had a bigger need for a partner than Ron.

That's not when he saw her as a girl. He saw her as a girl when he realized she had a real date to the Yule Ball (when Ginny told him that Hermione was going with someone else), when he realized that there was a male in the world who saw his buddy as a female and a romantic object. Then she became something other than a buddy for him and he couldn't handle it, at the time.

As for their bickering ruining their friendship. No, I doubt it. At fifteen, yeah, it seems that way. But after you've lived a little longer, you'll be able to look back and find those couples who parallel Ron and Hermione. My parents are one. My dad goes out of his way just to get my mom to argue with him. He enjoys it! It's a challenge and breaks up the mundane, day-to-day routine....

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Sir Tornado - Jun 16, 2004 2:49 pm (#900 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Wow! It's hard to ague with the pros--especially when you are outnumbered 5 to 1. I'll take a break and try to come back when I've sorted out some internal confusions.

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Lady Nagini - Jun 16, 2004 3:11 pm (#901 of 2916)
Edited by Jun 16, 2004 3:11 pm
Had I been online earlier, I would have tried to say the exact same things as Sarah, Accio, and Aly. You guys are brilliant.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 16, 2004 3:39 pm (#902 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Well, I used to be an adament H/H shipper for the simple reason that the strongest male should match up with the strongest female. It balances the series dramatically, literarily, and thematically. All the other suggested candidates for Harry just didn't seem to fit the bill.

But if viewed in a different way, if Harry gets Hermione, who's left for Ron? There are really only two other strong females in the series, Ginny and Pansy. Ron can't end up with his own sister, and there is simply no way that Ron has the strength of character needed to tame the hell-cat Pansy. That is so laughable, it's not funny. Hermione is one thing. Pansy is quite the other.

So Ron gets Hermione, leaving Ginny or Pansy for Harry. Since we've established the fact that Pansy is the stronger, more challenging female, then whom does the strongest male end up with?

I think I will post this over on the "uniting 'ship thread".

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Padfoot - Jun 16, 2004 3:51 pm (#903 of 2916)

Is Tonks too old to be Harry's ship? (OK, I said it!) -Mike

Tonks? TONKS? She's in her early to mid 20s I think. She is certainly interesting, but I don't see her with Harry (regardless of age). I still have no clue who Harry will end up with.

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mike miller - Jun 16, 2004 4:10 pm (#904 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Thanks Padfoot for the response. I guess I posted in the middle of a heated HRH discussion (which I enjoyed by the way - well said Sarah, take 10 points for the R/Hr 'ship society - I whole-heartedly agree).

This is nothing more than an odd feeling with me at this point. At the end of OotP Harry is nearly 16 and Tonks is maybe 21 or 22, only a few years out of Hogwarts. There's a 5 or 6 year difference that is huge now, but when the dust settles after Voldemort's defeat and Harry has completed Auror training that age difference becomes less of an issue (both in their twenties). There's just something about her and I think JKR has introduced an interesting female character for a reason, certainly more than cannon fodder for the final battle.

I don't recall the quote, but I thought JKR said something about no ones exactly got it right for Harry's 'ship but that we've been introduced to the character. I don't see any of Harry's age group being the right person for him, unless Marcus is right and we see a complete character reversal from Pansy and even that may be in opposition to JKR's statement. Sorry Marcus but in all of Harry Potter fandom I can't image that you're the soul voice of the Pansy option.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 16, 2004 4:24 pm (#905 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Mike Miller - Sorry Marcus but in all of Harry Potter fandom I can't image that you're the soul voice of the Pansy option.

I didn't believe it either, Mike, so I did a google search. I couldn't find one. Not one. And it brought up a great deal of fanfic. I couldn't believe it!

There were a few sites dedicated to Pansy out there, but not one of them have her ending up with Harry.

If you get a different result, then let me know.

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Denise P. - Jun 16, 2004 5:05 pm (#906 of 2916)

Ravenclaw Pony
Mike, you and I briefly discussed Tonks and Harry at the Gathering. I had not really thought of her with Harry prior to that point but after thinking about it, it has possibilities. Right now, the age gap between them is vast. He is 16, she is in her early 20's. By the time he graduates and a few years have passed, the age difference will become less of an issue. I don't put much stock in the idea of Lupin being with Tonks and while I admit, Marcus raises a good point with Pansy, I don't buy it. That leaves a Tonks-Harry 'ship wide open. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. She never really treated Harry as anything special and I think Harry will remember that she was not awed by the Famous Harry Potter™©. This means if something were to evolve, it would be for himself, not for something that occurred when he was a baby.

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Robert Dierken - Jun 16, 2004 6:52 pm (#907 of 2916)

Perhaps Tonks will pair off with Krum.

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Day - Jun 16, 2004 7:32 pm (#908 of 2916)

Having only read the last thirty or so remarks on this thread, I may be repeating someone elses thoughts..... however, if JKR has intro'd us to the character but no one has gotten it quite right then maybe it is someone like Susan Bones. Or maybe Alicia, Katie... Someone we know but not in real tight connection with Harry. Perhaps.....

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Julia. - Jun 16, 2004 7:46 pm (#909 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Age is not that big a deal. I'm 18, and I dated a guy who was 8 years older than me. As for Tonks, I don't know show I see her with, but I'm thinking about possibly putting her with Bill, he's cool enough for her.

At the moment, I'm reading a fanfic that puts Charlie with Cho Chang, what do you guys think about that ship?

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Star Crossed - Jun 16, 2004 7:55 pm (#910 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Read it. Like it. I wonder if we're thinking of the same fic. I don't think that ship is very big, but I like it. But I also love Bill/Fleur, so I can't agree with your Bill/Tonks.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 16, 2004 7:57 pm (#911 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Charlie and Tonks seem about the same age (they may have even gone to school together) and both seem the active type. Tonks also seems quite eager to be helpful to Mrs. Weasley. How about Charlie and Nymph as a 'ship?

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Julia. - Jun 16, 2004 7:57 pm (#912 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Yeah Aly, I think we are thinking of the same fic I too really like Bill and Fleur, but Bill's the only one cI can think of who's cool enough for Tonks. Actually, Charile would be good for her too, he's deffinatly cool enough, and being that he's not actually dating Cho as in the fic, it's a deffinate possiility.

EDIT: I cross posted with Sarah! I've never cross posted with anyone before! Yay!

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Czarina II - Jun 16, 2004 8:17 pm (#913 of 2916)

I too think Charlie and Tonks would go well together. Tonks didn't (from my recollection, anyway, of OoP) should much attraction to Bill when they were both at 12 Grimmauld Place.

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Lady Nagini - Jun 16, 2004 8:38 pm (#914 of 2916)

What about the Lupin/Tonks 'ship. I know that Denise doesn't put much stock in it, but why not? Other thoughts?

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S.E. Jones - Jun 16, 2004 9:34 pm (#915 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't put much stock in it either. They don't seem very compatible somehow to me. She seems just a little too perky for him somehow. Yes, I agree with those that say he needs someone who will brighten his life, but she seems a little too neon colored. I've heard the argument that he needs someone who will pull him out into the crowd and she loves crowds and so it would work but I disagree. I think there needs to be other areas of shared/common ground that I just don't see with these two (or at the very least, that haven't been shown yet). Also, I don't think that it is a matter of Lupin not being able to join the crowd; I think it is more a matter of him not wanting to join the crowd. He seems more the type who enjoys a set group of friends and set environment. I agree that he needs someone who will open him up a little, rib him a little from time to time (goodness knows he needs a good laugh, poor man). Tonks, however, just seems too young. And it isn't physical age. Lupin seems very mature mentally and Tonks very young mentally and I think that would cause a problem. I see her as being very vain and whimsical and full of energy. I think she's on a very extreme pole while Lupin is somewhere in the middle. Lupin is a very reserved, classic gentleman, with a good sense of humor. I think he's well balanced enough to find someone a bit more like himself. I think Tonks needs someone who has some characteristics that are a bit more opposite some of hers to help balance her out in some places but with some similar interests. That's why I suggested Charlie. He seems well grounded and very stable (mentally and emotionally), which is opposite Tonks' whimsical traits, but has similar interests in a fun loving nature, flying, being active, etc which would help bridge the gap....
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Sir Tornado - Jun 16, 2004 11:20 pm (#916 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Also, Lupin/Tonks seems unlikely because, thats going to be the last thing on their minds (specially Lupin; can't say for Tonks) with His Lordship at large.

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Weeny Owl - Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm (#917 of 2916)

Strongest female being either Ginny or Pansy and Pansy winning out?

Hmmm... let's not forget that lovely Bat Bogey Hex of hers.

Also, Ginny shares something with Harry that no one else that we know of does... they've both been possessed by Voldie and lived to tell about it.

Ginny is much stronger than it may seem, and she has one huge factor over Pansy... she's actually not a vindictive, nasty, foul shrew.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 12:14 am (#918 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Denise P: Referring to a Harry/Tonks 'ship: She never really treated Harry as anything special and I think Harry will remember that she was not awed by the Famous Harry Potter. This means if something were to evolve, it would be for himself, not for something that occurred when he was a baby.

Ginny's crush on Harry was based on what happened to him when he was a baby. Okay, I doubt most will argue this point. However, she's gotten over this little hill and is at ease around him now; she can be herself around him without going all doe-eyed and basking in the glow of the great 'Boy Who Lived'. She certainly doesn't treat him as anything special now. In fact she even yelled at him a little (OotP) to remind him that she had been possessed by Voldemort and so would know what it felt like. Hardly hero-worship anymore, huh? So, if something were to evolve between the two of them now, it would be for himself, not for something that occurred when he was a baby. He's saved her life from Voldemort and a basilisk (CoS), he's been her brother's best friend for five (going on six) years (so she knows how loyal he is and has gotten to see him up-close-and-personal for years), she watched him go through quite a few personal trials (PoA, GoF, OotP), she's been a friend to him in her own right (OotP). Heck, she could've easily gotten killed for him in the DoM, but she went anyway! I could easily see it happening....

I'm not saying it's probable, just highly possible....

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 3:13 am (#919 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I couldn't agree with you more S.E. But then, same can be said about Hermione, couldn't it?

Call me hopelessly stubborn, I don't care.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 3:27 am (#920 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't think it could be said about Hermione for quite a few reasons. The main one is, Harry has been very bored with her in the past (Ron on the other hand finds her quite entertaining). Harry's idea of a good time doesn't include a fight/debate, which apparently Ron and Hermione's does. When Harry and Hermione spent a great deal of time alone together in GoF, he was very bored. This is not a good base for a long-term relationship. Ginny, on the other hand, has enough Weasley mischief in her to keep things exciting. She'd joke with him and is extroverted enough to compliment Harry's introvertedness without being an extreme. They also share the common interest of loving Quidditch and a certain disregard for the rules, not to mention the whole Voldemort thing. She's quirky enough to be interesting but still balanced enough/grounded to fit well with him. Hermione on the other hand lacks quirk. She's as mundane as Harry. Harry and Hermione balance each other in certain areas but they don't really compliment anywhere. You need both to make a good match, in my opinion.

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Accio Book Six - Jun 17, 2004 6:09 am (#921 of 2916)

I agree whole-heartedly, Sarah. As I, and many others, have said in the past: Harry and Hermione are just NOT suited for eachother. I know it seems obvious and cliche or whatever, but I'm just a hardcore R/Hr, H/G shipper. That's not just because I want those people to end up with eachother, but because I think they would compliment eachother perfectly. (INSERT SARAH'S ARGUMENTS HERE)

I think we might see Harry remarking more and more about Ginny in book 6, and MAYBE something might happen towards the end of it, but I doubt it. I think Harry and Ginny will get together AFTER the last fight with Voldemort. Harry's not going to get in a relationship with ANYONE knowing that he might die soon. He wouldn't want to put them in danger and he wouldn't want to begin a relationship when he's not sure if he'll be alive the next day.

As for Ron and Hermione, I think we can look for an official date that they'll decide to go on (more like a business transaction). It will be awkward. They'll decide it was a mistake, be wierd around eachother for a bit, then go back to being friends, and then it will come naturally. LIke, one day they'll be laughing together and then just kiss or something silly like that.

I can REALLY see situations that might resemble those happening to our protagonists, and I do have a bit of a knack for predicting things!

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mike miller - Jun 17, 2004 6:32 am (#922 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Accio - I'm with you all the way on the R/Hr 'ship. It will be awkward at first, transitioning from close friends to "special" best friends. As far as Harry's 'ship, I go back to the JKR comment about no one getting it quite right yet. Since Ginny, Luna, Pansy and others have been speculated about, I tend to count them out in spite of some very well supported evidence.

If we exclude the more obvious choices, who is left? I agree that Harry will be in no fit state of mind to "partner" with anyone for a while after the defeat of Voldemort. If he does pursue a career as a Auror, then I think Tonks is a real possibility.

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Rosmerta - Jun 17, 2004 8:14 am (#923 of 2916)

I think that Tonks and Harry would only be a possibility once Harry has left school, and in that case I don't think we'd ever see it develop. I agree with Mike, I've always felt that Harry will never get into a serious ship. He might have another fling or short-lived attempt like he did with Cho, but I just don't see him having enough of himself to give to someone else while he's trying to deal with Voldemort... also, I remember after OOP reading a few theories that said that Ron and Hermione were already somewhat together throughout the book, but that they kept it a secret from everyone, especially for Harry's sake. Does anyone still put stock in this idea?

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Accio Book Six - Jun 17, 2004 8:39 am (#924 of 2916)

That's certainly one to think about... It could totally be true... I'll let you know in a few days when I've read OOP again. It does seem like something they'd do though.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 17, 2004 9:07 am (#925 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Wow Sarah, I recently had been considering a Tonks/Charlie ship. They're round the same age, but as yet we don't know if they have met. In OotP he's still chasing dragons or something in Romania... right? I can picture the scene... Charlie comes to visit his parents & arrives mid Order meeting. Tonks trips up or does something else clumsy... Charlie goes over to see if she's ok... & they get talking. Three chapters later Harry spots them chatting in a quiet corner somewhere... lol! I've thought about this too much

Now what was I going to say, Oh yeah.... I don't know who said it earlier in this thread, but they mentioned something about Ron & Hermione having nothing in common except for the fact they where both Harrys friends. Hmm, I have to say I disagree. Apart from being Harrys friend, they both attend the same school, are both in the same house, are both prefects, both like animals, both like to voice their opinions, & both like a good argument to name but a few.

Ron & Hermione are friends independant of Harry, otherwise they still wouldn't be friends. In PoA, after the revelation in the leaky cauldron, Harry arrives down into the common room where he finds Ron & Hermione sitting together. This isn't the only example of this, another I could list is their first trip to Hogsmeade, to which Harry couldn't go. I'm pretty sure they didn't walk around all day saying nothing. They are bound to have conversations, 'off camera' as it where about things other than Harry, whether it be homework or wonky faints

Also in PoA after Harry & Ron return from Hogsmeade after nearly getting caught out by Snape, they are both still pretty mad at Hermione, even thinking that when she seeks them out, that she is going to gloat. When they realise that she's upset about the outcome of Buckbeaks trial... Ron then tells her (without Harry prompting him) that he'll help her with the appeal. This gesture signals the end of the quarrel, (after which Hermione flings herself at him & sobs into his shoulder).

Hermione seems to have spent a good deal of their summer after 4th year in Rons company (if Harry letters are correct) so it would be safe to assume that they are able to function as friends without Harry being there. Also due to Harrys mood swings, they spend an increasing amount of time in each others company during the 5th school year. That coupled with their prefect duties.

They do fight a lot.... but its more teasing than anything. For Ron, its his way of trying to deal with the new feelings he has for his friend. He feels awkward around her, & sometimes gets embarrased so it's easier (in his mind) to pick a fight with her, as a way of distraction so she won't notice that hes getting a bit flustered in her company.

Most arguments however Ron instigates to get a reaction out of Hermione, & she nearly always rises to the bait, & he loves it. Hermione can hold her own in an arguement & Ron needs someone who can challenge him. She can stick up for herself & I'm sure this is something Ron was used to growing up with Molly & Ginny.

In saying that, some arguments are instigated by jealousy, on both sides It's normally these arguments that provoke the more personal insults... seeing as they are borne out of jealousy. For those that still believe that Hermione has no warm & fuzzy feelings for Ron, ask yourself why does she let his comments get to her so much Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 9:45 am (#926 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
S.E.Jones says

When Harry and Hermione spent a great deal of time alone together in GoF, he was very bored.

I'm sorry but Harry does not say that he was bored. I think JKR writes something like this. (There might be errors; I'm writing this from memory)

Chapter 19, page 278

Harry liked Hermione very much. But she just wasn't same as Ron.There was much less laughter and more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend.

This is different from saying Harry was bored by Hermione's company.

By the way, I dunno if you've noticed, but Arthur gives 3 suggestions to us so far in this series. They are:

1)Never trust any thing when you can't see where it keeps it's brain.

Harry remembers this while using Marauder's map for the first time.

2)We can't resist showing off when we get together.

Harry remembers this when Drumstrang and Bauxbatons arrive.

3)And that is why we should never go for looks alone

Harry has not remembered this till now. I recon he'll remember this in the 6th book andfind out that he has feelings for Hermione.

I know every one here'll disagree on this. Just thought I'd mention though.

Edit: Sorry for awkward colour combinations, it was the first time I used them.

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Weeny Owl - Jun 17, 2004 9:51 am (#927 of 2916)

And that is why we should never go for looks alone

That sounds more like what happened between Ron and Hermione when Ron was going on and on about taking a pretty girl to the Yule Ball. That upset Hermione quite a bit, and she mentioned Eloise Midgen (the one with the acne problem) might start to look good to Ron.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 10:08 am (#928 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.

Wheeny, I'm sorry, but I think you missed something.(You'd probably say I'd missed a lot of things!) But in case of Arthur's other 2 statements, Harry remembers them and JKR writes those by saying: Harry remembered Mr Weasley once said...and the piece of advice But, the third advice is not yet mentioned in that manner yet. I'm sure it would be mentioned in the sixth book and then Harry will realize his true feelings towards Hermione.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 10:25 am (#929 of 2916)

Let it snow!
It could also be in relation to Ginny, or some other girl for that matter (Luna). Hermione isn't the only girl with a not-stunningly beautiful pretty face and more beneath the surface.

Any by the way, you are missing a line from that quote: (GoF, ch19, 316, US) Harry liked Hermione very much but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend.
Later, in the second task, Ron, not Hermione, is the thing Harry would miss the most. Perhaps that is because she was already taken by Krum, but I don't think so. This line shows that he slightly prefers Ron's company to Hermione's. I'm not suggesting anything there, but I hardly doubt that, if Harry did have feelings for her, that he'd prefer his best friend over her. As for developing feelings for her, the same problem's there. They balance well in some areas but don't compliment anywhere which doesn't make a good match, in my opinion....

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Weeny Owl - Jun 17, 2004 10:26 am (#930 of 2916)

Perhaps, Tornedo, but Arthur Weasley said that at the Quidditch World Cup when both boys were totally captivated by the Veela.

Ron continues that when he sees Fleur Delacour, and it really irks Hermione.

Since Harry can't take Cho to the Yule Ball, he doesn't really seem to care who his partner is as long as he has one, while Ron is concerned about taking someone pretty. Again, that really irks Hermione.

Between Ron's fascination with Fleur and his comments about looks, Hermione isn't a happy little camper. She doesn't seem to care about anything Harry's said but only about Ron's attitude.

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mike miller - Jun 17, 2004 10:50 am (#931 of 2916)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Hermione is upset by Ron's reaction and/or the action of Fleur on two occasions; first when Ron helps Harry with Fleur's little sister in the second task; and, again at the end of year when everyone is leaving Hogwarts.

Ron and Hermione just don't know how to deal with their feelings (what 15 year old does - Sorry no offense intended) or how to take their 'ship to the next level. I'm confident over time R/Hr will work out the "bugs" in their 'ship.

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Padfoot - Jun 17, 2004 11:06 am (#932 of 2916)

I still don't see Harry and Tonks in a 'ship. Charlie and Tonks however is a good suggestion. Bill and Fleur seem to be a couple for now. We don't know much about Bill and Charlie, so really JKR may not include any more ' shipping information of either one of them. Although I hope she does.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 11:20 am (#933 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
S.E:Harry liked Hermione very much but she just wasn't the same as Ron.

Surely, you can't mean Harry was bored by Hermione's company by that quote.

It could also be in relation to Ginny, or some other girl for that matter (Luna).

I don't think so. Harry regards Ginny as a sister rather than a friend and I don't think Harry'd fall for someone as nutty as Luna (Sorry if I hurt the feelings of Luna fans). I don't think we know any thing about any of the other girls in Harry's year with the exception of Pansy and I don't see a H/P ship.(Sorry Marcus) So there's just Hermione left and yes, last minute twists do happen in everythings even in the real world(England-France soccer match?) leave alone the work of fiction.

S.E.: Later, in the second task, Ron, not Hermione, is the thing Harry would miss the most. Perhaps that is because she was already taken by Krum, but I don't think so. This line shows that he slightly prefers Ron's company to Hermione's. I'm not suggesting anything there, but I hardly doubt that, if Harry did have feelings for her, that he'd prefer his best friend over her.

I think I have said before that in GoF and OotP,Harry's mind is on Cho. There is also the fact that Harry had just had a major spat with Ron before, so there is no doubt that he prefer's Ron's company over Hermione's.But then,the same argument can be used to point out that when Harry and Ron weren't talking, Hermione spent most of her time with Harry instead of Ron. Doesn't that mean she prefers Harry's company over Ron's. And yes, she does spend most of her time with Harry. She has breakfast with Harry, attends classes with Harry goes to Hogsmeade with Harry and spends her entire free time with Harry practising for the First task.

Wheeny: Between Ron's fascination with Fleur and his comments about looks, Hermione isn't a happy little camper. She doesn't seem to care about anything Harry's said but only about Ron's attitude.

Hermione isn't a happy little camper not because of Ron's fascination with Fleur.She's angry with Fleur ever since Fleur laughed during Dumbledore's speech and as S.E.Jones said early on, Hermione sticks with first Imressions.Why doesn't Hermione care about anything Harry's said? That's because Harry doesn't say anything that hurts Hermione's feelings.

I really hope someone's convinced.

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Rosmerta - Jun 17, 2004 11:28 am (#934 of 2916)

Tornedo, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on all the Hemione and Ron flirtation in POA (as in the movie). Sorry if you have already talked about it (if so please direct me to it :-) )

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 11:35 am (#935 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
No,I haven't talked about that yet. But then, they don't really happen in the books do they? So, as far as relationships in the books are concerned, they may not count; and, it's the 'ships in the books we're talking about aren't we?

Is that convincing enough? I'm think I already know what's the answer to that.

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megfox - Jun 17, 2004 11:46 am (#936 of 2916)

My name is Madeline Guinevere Fox, and I am pleased to make your aquaintance!
If you want to talk about those things, you can over on the Movie threads. You're right, Tornedo, this thread is for discussing 'ships in the books! thanks for staying on topic!

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Lady Nagini - Jun 17, 2004 12:14 pm (#937 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 17, 2004 12:24 pm
But then,the same argument can be used to point out that when Harry and Ron weren't talking, Hermione spent most of her time with Harry instead of Ron. Doesn't that mean she prefers Harry's company over Ron's. And yes, she does spend most of her time with Harry. --Tornedo

Well, she knew that Ron was the one being a prat, not Harry. I would assume that regardless of who she 'liked,' she would choose sides in the spat based on who she thought was right, not who she liked more.

Also, liking someone when you're 14 can be extremely awkward. She probably felt awkward and nervous around Ron alone and felt more at ease around Harry because she didn't like him.

Lastly, she knew she had to help Harry prepare for the tournament, both mentally and physically. She couldn't abandon him before such a nervewracking experience.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 12:21 pm (#938 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Also, liking someone when you're 14 can be extremely awkward. She probably felt awkward and nervous around Ron alone and feels more at ease around Harry because she didn't like him. ---Lady Nagini.

I'm sorry, but I still don't see it from the "eye of the snake"

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Lady Nagini - Jun 17, 2004 12:24 pm (#939 of 2916)

Was that supposed to be a pun? Teehee.

And what don't you understand...?

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 12:41 pm (#940 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
She probably felt awkward and nervous around Ron alone and feels more at ease around Harry because she didn't like him. --Lady Nagini

I can't belive they had crush on each other at that time.(Actually,I never belived Hermione had crush on Ron).

Secondly, If she had a crush at Ron, then wouldn't siding with Harry have hurt their relationship? (If they had any).

Thirdly, If they were just friends, then what on earth do you mean by the quote I have written earlier in this post.(I think Hermione really liked Harry--ed)

P.S.- Yes, that was a Pun.(I heard Star Crossed mention you as "The Snake" the other day)

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 12:43 pm (#941 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Tornedo: Surely, you can't mean Harry was bored by Hermione's company by that quote.

Apparently you didn't read my reply, so I will restate: "This line shows that he slightly prefers Ron's company to Hermione's. I'm not suggesting anything there, but I hardly doubt that, if Harry did have feelings for her, that he'd prefer his best friend over her. As for developing feelings for her, the same problem's there. They balance well in some areas but don't compliment anywhere which doesn't make a good match, in my opinion...."

My reply was not two seperate statements but one statement, just for clarification. I came to the conclusion that Harry found life boring or mundane with Hermione by interpreting his mood over several chapters of the book, not that one line.

But then,the same argument can be used to point out that when Harry and Ron weren't talking, Hermione spent most of her time with Harry instead of Ron. Doesn't that mean she prefers Harry's company over Ron's. And yes, she does spend most of her time with Harry.

Actually, it would seem she spends a fair amount of time with both, trying to get them to make up, or at least talk. She talks to Ron at breakfast the morning after Harry's name comes out of the Goblet (which is probably why she went looking for Harry) and then goes out of her way to try to force the two to quit being stubburn and heal their friendship....

GoF, ch18: Hermione sat between them, making forced conversation, but though they answered her normally, they avoided making eye contact with each other.
GoF, ch19: Hermione was furious with the pair of them; she went from one to the other, trying to force them to talk to each other....

And, I like this line: GoF, ch19: Hermione told Harry that it would do him good to get away from the castle for a bit, and Harry didn't need much persuasion.
"What about Ron, though?" he said. "Don't you want to go with him?"
"Oh... well..." Hermione went slightly pink. "I thought we might meet up with him in the Three Broomsticks...."

Harry regards Ginny as a sister rather than a friend

Where is it ever stated that Harry regards Ginny as a sister?

EDIT: Having feelings for someone and being in a relationship are two very different things. Hermione could easily feel ill at ease around Ron because of personal feelings but side with Harry because of friendship because at the time Ron and Hermione were not in a relationship, they were still acting as friends.... But that doesn't mean that those feelings didn't exist....

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Lady Nagini - Jun 17, 2004 12:49 pm (#942 of 2916)

The feud was well into fourth year, by which time the stage was set for Ron and Hermione's mutual crush. It was only a couple months later that they fought over the Yule Ball.

Like I stated, they didn't have a relationship. And Hermione, IMHO, would have sided with whom she felt was right, not whom she wanted to spend more time with. And copy what Sarah said about Hermione spending more time with Ron than previously noted.

I meant that Hermione felt awkward and nervous around Ron because she liked him. She felt comfortable and at ease around Harry because she did not like him. Thus, she spent more time around Harry.

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Rosmerta - Jun 17, 2004 1:02 pm (#943 of 2916)

I know this isn't a very precise literary analysis, but maybe Hermione spends most of her time with Harry in GOF simply because if JK wrote it so that Harry was spending time alone, things would be very dull. As someone else on the forum has commented somewhere (not sure if its this thread or not) Harry is an introspective person, and if theres no one there for him to converse with, a lot of his thoughts and feelings don't get relayed to us. Also, Harry's need at the time was much greater than Ron's was. If you had to choose between helping a friend who was being shunned and accused of lying and cheating and the like, and a friend who was being naieve and mistrustful, who would you choose to help? I think the answer to this question is pretty obvious. Also, with regards to my movie question, I did't mean to mislead the thread into a full-fledged debate over the movies, but doesn't the fact that both Chris Columbus and Alfonso Cuaron alluded to feelings between Ron and Hermione in movies where they are advised and supervised by the master of the HP universe herself count for something???

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 1:02 pm (#944 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Harry found life boring or mundane with Hermione.--S.E.Jones.

Surely, How's life going to be boring or mundane with a Dragon comming up shortly?

Hermione does spend time trying to make them talk, but as I said before she seems to spend every other minute (except Arithmancy) with Harry and not Ron.

She also goes to Hogsmeade with Harry.

Lady Nagini--I don't buy that argument. Ron noticed that Hermione was a girl just prior to the ball, so there's no way there was a crush at least during or before First Task.

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Lady Nagini - Jun 17, 2004 1:09 pm (#945 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 17, 2004 1:09 pm
Fine, if you don't believe that Ron liked her (or knew he liked her) before the Yule Ball, Hermione definitely liked him at least from the beginning of fourth year.

This is very telling.

The next few days were some of Harry's worst at Hogwarts...He thought he could have coped with the rest of the school's behavior if he could just have Ron back as a friend...it was lonely with dislike pouring in on him from all sides." (US GoF 296)

There are plenty of times when Harry is alone; Hermione could have been with Ron then.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 1:10 pm (#946 of 2916)

Let it snow!
There may have still been feelings from Hermione's point of view, though I agree not from Ron's at that time.

As for the time thing, as I pointed out, she sat between them in classes (see my previous post for citation) and tried to force conversation. She walked with Harry between classes for the reasons that Nagini has already stated. She talked him into going to Hogsmeade because she was trying to get him to meet up with Ron there, which he refused to do.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 1:22 pm (#947 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
The next few days were some of Harrys worst at Hogwarts...He thought he could have coped with the rest of the schools behavior if he could just have Ron back as a friend...it was lonely with dislike pouring in on him from all sides.--Lady Nagini

Does that mean he is alone(without Hermione). I thought (and still think) that merely means that Ron wasn't with him and that all non-Gryffindors hated him

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 2:08 pm (#948 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I don't really know this, but does the knowledge of "Who's Harry's hostage during the second task" or "With whom does Hermione spend most of her time prior to the First task" really matter in the Shipping debate?

P.S-I really enjoyed it though.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 3:55 pm (#949 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Not really.....

If I may ask a 'ship-esk question. Do you think Fluer has ever met Molly and Arthur since she's dating Bill?

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Star Crossed - Jun 17, 2004 5:16 pm (#950 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jun 17, 2004 5:17 pm
Something I want to say that really bothers me, the reason Hermione probably stayed with Harry slightly more is that Ron hung out with Fred and George, whereas Harry had no one.

EDIT: Jeez, I hope not. I can't think Arthur and Molly would be happy with Fleur. Probably think she has him under her own sort of magic...

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Chris. - Jun 17, 2004 5:23 pm (#951 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I dunno... I think Molly would like Fleur. Actually, I think Molly would be happy for any of her sons (and Ginny ) if they were with someone who they liked but there is probably a limit!

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 5:24 pm (#952 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Star Crossed: I can't think Arthur and Molly would be happy with Fleur. Probably think she has him under her own sort of magic...

You think so? Bill didn't seem that impressed with her Veela charms in GoF. I'm not totally unconvinced that Bill doesn't have some Veela-like charms of his own ... I think if anyone did some spell casting, it may have been him....

EDIT: I have noticed one thing that I thin is very much in Fleur's favor, as far as the Weasley's go - her family/parents. Her grandmother was a Veela, thus making her mom half-Veela and probably somewhat of a "half-breed" by wizarding standards. So, despite Fleur's apparent snootiness, her family must be very tolerant (by wizarding standards).

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Chris. - Jun 17, 2004 5:27 pm (#953 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
But the interest was shown by each of them. Didn't Fleur give Bill a look in GF?

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 5:33 pm (#954 of 2916)

Let it snow!
She gave him a look. He ignored her, or didn't bother to notice. He did, however, attract the attention of several portraits....

GoF, ch31:
Fleur Delacour, Harry noticed, was eyeing Bill with great interest over her mother's shoulder. Harry could tell she had no objections whatsoever to long hair or earrings with fangs on them.

There's no mention of Bill ever particularly noticing her.... At least until OotP when he started giving her private English lessons ....

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Filibuster, Ph.D. - Jun 17, 2004 7:51 pm (#955 of 2916)

Hi! This is my first post, and I don't know if it is in the right place, please correct me if I'm wrong. Following with the Lupin thread, and reading the last message, in PoA movie we all know that Lupin may have some feeling towards Lily but after the 9th time I read OotP, I believe that there's something between Lupin and Tonks, Razz you may believe I crazy but there are a couple of subtle clues pointing to a relationship between them, yes I know Lupin is older than Tonks, but if you read the first chapters of OotP maybe you will notice something too. Wink

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Chris. - Jun 17, 2004 7:59 pm (#956 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't see where people get the Lupin/Tonks thing.

It never popped out at me in the book, it just seemed it to me like desperate 'shippers shoving characters together.

I think Charlie and Tonks are more suited. Both interesting jobs, around the same age and interesting characters.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 17, 2004 9:54 pm (#957 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
...but after the 9th time I read OotP, I believe that there's something between Lupin and Tonks, Razz you may believe I crazy but there are a couple of subtle clues pointing to a relationship between them,...--Filibuster.

Filibuster, what clues exactly are you refering to? I haven't noticed any apart from Lupin calling Tonks by her first name which she hates so much.(Which may amount to almost nothing) Or, are you refering to the fact that, it it always Lupin and Tonks who escort Harry, Hermione and the Weasleys. Either way, I don't see much in Lupin/Nymphadora.(Sorry Tonks)

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S.E. Jones - Jun 17, 2004 9:54 pm (#958 of 2916)

Let it snow!
What "subtle clues" are you referring to Filibuster, Ph.D.?

I've already given my thoughts on a Lupin/Tonks 'ship in my post #914....

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Accio Book Six - Jun 18, 2004 6:06 am (#959 of 2916)

We have to remember that not EVERYBODY has to end up with somebody. Yes, it would be nice for Lupin to have a woman to keep him company so he might not always feel so alone, but I don't know if that will happen. It MIGHT though, because I'd bet anything that Lupin survives VWII.

On to the GoF Harry/Ron/Hermion little triangle thing. Somebody hit the nail on the head when they said that Hermione might have spent slightly more time with Harry probably because Ron was doing quite well for himself. Ron is mentioned as hanging out with Dean and Seamus AND Fred and George, while Harry never spends time with anyone but Hermione. I think she was just being nice. I'm in the middle of GoF now so I'll tell you when I'm done it again, but the last couple times I read I got the distinct impression that Hermione split her time between Ron and Harry pretty evenly. I don't think she picked a side at all... she saw it from both of their points of view. I don't think Hermione spending time with Harry alone points to a ship at all. I think, if anything, the fact that she still hung out with Ron at all points to a ship between THEM. I mean, Ron WAS being fairly immature.

And one last thing... you CAN be lonely even if you're surrounded by lots of people. I think Harry was lonelier than he had been in a LONG time, even when he was WITH Hermione. He had had his name put in the cup without his knowledge, he needed to talk to his friend about everything, and more than anything, he NEEDED somebody there for him who could understand him and cheer him up. Hermione may be a close friend of Harry's, but she just doesn't get him like Ron does.

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Padfoot - Jun 18, 2004 2:58 pm (#960 of 2916)

Edited by Jun 18, 2004 2:59 pm
...couple of subtle clues pointing to a relationship between them, yes I know Lupin is older than Tonks, but if you read the first chapters of OotP maybe you will notice something too -Filibuster, Ph.D.

I am rereading OotP right now and am still in the beginning. I must have missed those clues too. Lupin and Tonks seem to get along, but I haven't seen any 'ship develop between the two. At least not yet.

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Green Eyes - Jun 19, 2004 10:52 am (#961 of 2916)

I've been following this conversation for a while and I love hearing everyone's perspective! I am a R/H and H/G shipper and I have been since seeing the movie COS even before I read any of the books. Nove that I have read the books and after reading OOTP, seeing the character developement of Ginny, I am even more convinced that they will end up together in the end. A couple of observations.

Harry starts out in SS going on his adventure with R and H - until the very last moment. In COS, Hermione is incapacitated and Ron goes with Harry...In POA, it's Ron who is disabled and Harry goes on his adventure to save Sirius with Hermione. In GOF, Harry faces the tournament and Voldemort without his friends. Once we get to OOTP Harry is being separated both physically and psychologically from Ron and Hermione...they are at 12 Grimmauld place without him all summer, they are prefects riding in a separate train compartment...He sees them in a dream wearing crowns...Harry feels a sense of loss not riding on the train with Ron (btw, he's now with Ginny)...Ron and Hermione are at a loss in trying to deal with Harry's anger. I think these are important because it puts Ron and Hermione together juxtaposed to Harry.

Add to this the movie evidence and I think those who still think Harry will end up with Hermione are grasping. In OOTP, we see a huge developement of Ginny's character...Harry is noticing her more because she isn't mute around him anymore. They have alot in common and she has a way of dealing with him when he's angry and also helping him to feel better (possession, easter egg/talking to Sirius, telling him he'll be back on the team). If you look at the story COS, the fairy tale imagery is all there...sleeping beauty, handsome prince with the sword fighting the dragon/basalisk...I started to doubt when Harry's infatuated with Cho in POA and GOF...but I think my gut instincts were correct now that I've read OOTP.

My point is that not only is there canon evidence for R/H and now possibly H/G as well as movie moments...the canon is showing us other ways in which Harry is becoming separated from Ron and Hermione and even turning to confide or seek help from others (Ginny, Fred and George). Hermione is almost hysterical a couple of times when she learns that Harry wants to do certain things...I can't wait to see her reaction when she finds out Harry has to kill or be killed by Voldemort...remember it was Ginny who told him "anything is possible if you have enough nerve." I think he really needs to hear this.

One last thing...I hear people talking about how JKR doesn't want us to know things...well IMHO, I think she doesn't want us to know the main plot line - Harry v Voldemort...that we might figure out who is sweet on whom is not a big deal...romantic relationships are subplots and give us some insight into who these characters are outside of the main storyline...they offer humor, levity, maybe a tender moment...they flesh out the characters even more.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 19, 2004 10:16 pm (#962 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Bravo Green Eyes!

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draco all the way - Jun 19, 2004 11:55 pm (#963 of 2916)

Does anybody else like Hermione alot more when she's fighting with Ron or is it just me? I find her to be a totally staid and bookish character, always under control except when she's argueing with Ron. Then, she totally lets loose, raising her voice, losing her temper...that has got to account for something right?

Also, someone said not EVERYONE has to end up together. Quite right. Also, have you noticed that only the kids are having anyhthing to do with romance. None of the adults, even the single ones, are ever linked up. Like its a taboo subject or something. Plus it'd be kind of awkward if Lupin suddenly started going out. But, having said all that I feel that poor, morose Lupin needs a nice girl to make him happy. Tonks is a bit TOO bright, and I haven't noticed any 'subtle clue' (Prof. Filibuster where ar you?) but for some inexplicable reason Lupin/Tonks just FEELS right.

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Dr Filibuster - Jun 20, 2004 5:11 am (#964 of 2916)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
Are my words from months ago coming back to haunt me? I shall have to re-read the start of OoP.

It was mainly the way that Rowling wrote "Lupin and Tonks" so often that made me and many many others see them as a possible couple. They never share glances, have awkward moments etc etc, but they are often in the same scenes and mentioned in the same breath. As Draco all the Way said Lupin/Tonks just feels right.

Tonks is very bright (as in bubbly personality) compaired to Remus and also a lot younger. But remember the most enjoyable part of his life with his best friends at school? James and Sirius were exceptionally bright (as in lively and also clever) mischevious, fun, over confident They also had the conviction to fight Voldemort and his Deatheaters by becoming members of the Order from a very young age. Maybe Remus will start to enjoy life more if he's around somebody more out going than himself who is equally commited to the Order's cause?

I'm always Remus in those HP personality tests. I am also an introvert who ends up having bright extroverts for boyfriends/best friends.

Having said all that, the story is about Harry. I don't think that Rowling will concentrate on any blossoming love affairs between the adults. It's enough to have it in the background....Bill and Fleur anyone? Maxime and Hagrid? and my current favourite, Nev's gran and Prof Tofty?

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haymoni - Jun 20, 2004 8:41 am (#965 of 2916)

I think Tonks, Charlie and Bill would all have been at Hogwarts together at some point, so they probably already know eachother.

I thought a Tonks/Charlie 'ship would be good, but the more I think about it, Charlie may not be too thrilled with clumsy Tonks - she'd be a liability around his dragons.

If Tonks was as clumsy at Hogwarts as she is now, I could see the other students viewing her as a sort of Luna - they probably wonder, Charlie included, how someone as clumsy as Tonks could have become an Auror - although Aurors haven't had as much to do lately - that will change, of course - they probably think her Metamorphagus skills got her the job, and they are probably right.

Tonks may become too busy now for a 'ship.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 20, 2004 12:48 pm (#966 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I can't see Charlie having a problem with clumsiness. He seems to easigoing and nice to be bothered by someone being different or clumsy or "Luna-like".

I still can't see Lupin and Tonks.

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Catherine - Jun 20, 2004 1:17 pm (#967 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I would be very surprised if Tonks and Lupin ended up together. I think Tonks is more like "one of the guys" in many respects.

Also, Tonks may be a bit young for Lupin. Certainly they are not THAT far apart in age, but I'm thinking about life experience.

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Liz - Jun 20, 2004 1:25 pm (#968 of 2916)

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Well if Tonks was to young to be in the order last time I think that is a definite age gap, so it might not work out.

What about Kingsley and Tonks, I mean they're both Aurors, and both in the order so they would see a lot of each other, and I believe that they probably took some of the same classes in Auror training, hold on I'll look for a quote...

"Yeah," said Tonks looking proud. "Kingsley as well; he's a bit higher up than I am, though. I only qualified a year ago. Nearly failed on Stealth and Tracking, I'm dead clumsy, did you hear me break that plate when we arrived downstairs?"

Yeah, it makes me wonder, she knew all this stuff about Kingsley so they must have talked and gotten to know each other during some time or another.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 20, 2004 1:41 pm (#969 of 2916)

Let it snow!
All this stuff? That he's higher up in the ranks than her? That's not much and anyone in the office would know that....

One of the biggest problems I see toward Lupin/Tonks isn't so much physical age as mental age. Tonks seems very young, even for early twenties. She seems to spend a good deal of time goofing around with Hermione and Ginny and making them laugh. Lupin seems very mature, even for late thirties. I think he would appreciate someone who would help liven his moods, etc, but Tonks still seems too much on the "kids" side of the line, if you know what I mean. You can be mature and lively without being childlike but Tonks still retains those childlike qualities. She hasn't lost them yet and fully stepped into adulthood, at least in my view. Not that that's a bad thing, I just don't think it would blend well with Lupin's personality, etc. I think he would take on a more father-like role with her than that of a romanitc interest....

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Liz - Jun 20, 2004 5:52 pm (#970 of 2916)

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Hence Tonks is a child person so having kids would fit, and well in relationships couples compensate for each others weakneses, for instance Tonks is clumsy and Kingsley isn't, she isn't good at Stealth and Tracking and well I can assume who is.

She likes to be with Ginny and Hermione and well Kingsley is a work type person, I think it's all there, anyone else?

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S.E. Jones - Jun 20, 2004 6:42 pm (#971 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't think it is her being a "kid person" so much as her not being completely an adult as yet. She's only about 21 or so in OotP. That's not very old and the line between childhood and adulthood is still a little blurred, moreso in some than others.

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Liz - Jun 20, 2004 7:22 pm (#972 of 2916)

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Well Lily had Harry when she was 20ish so I don't see what you mean by Tonks being childish, age wise she's good and that "childishness" of hers could just be her personality.

But it's not like we know for sure what's going to happen so...there are still other possibilities for relationship making.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 20, 2004 9:03 pm (#973 of 2916)

Let it snow!
There's a difference between physical and mental age. Some people are very mature at twenty, a great many don't reach that maturity level until mid- to late-twenties. Some are still irresponsible well into their fifties. You can be mature and still fun-loving without being "child-like". What I meant is that I didn't feel Tonks had completely grown out of her "child-like" tendencies" to some extent. That isn't all that uncommon, given her age. And having children isn't a mark of maturity, it a mark of... well, I won't answer that, but you, unfortunately, don't have to prove you are a mature, responsible adult to have children.

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haymoni - Jun 20, 2004 10:04 pm (#974 of 2916)

Yes, S.E. - I agree - she can make herself look like anyone and yet she chooses to use her talents to change her hair from violent violet to bubblegum pink. Actually, that's something I would have done at 21!!!

She did do the old lady disguise when called upon, so she knows when to be "professional".

Who knows? Maybe the nose-changing at the table and the different shades of hair are her outlet - being an Auror, especially one that is secretly serving the Order, must be very stressful. She may like to hang out with "the kids" just to relax.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 20, 2004 10:43 pm (#975 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Could be to relax, though I think it is more that she just hasn't fully let go of all those child-like characteristics. I agree that she does know when to be professional when called upon, a good sign that she is maturing, something I would still expect of someone of 21.

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Dr Filibuster - Jun 21, 2004 12:01 am (#976 of 2916)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
JKR is a fan of Jane Austen.

She once said that she loved the suprise twist in Emma. Emma is a young woman who ends up with the older family-friend who's been in the story all along. It's only at the end of the novel, when she matures a bit, that they are ready for each other. A similar thing happens in Sense and Sensibility with Marianne and the much older Colonel Brandon (Kate Winslet and Alan Rickman in the movie version). Then there is Persuasion where "The high-spirited, joyous-talking Louisa Musgrove, and the dejected, thinking, feeling reading Captain Benwick, seemed each of them everything that would not suit the other". That is until she has a knock on the head . She childishly insisted on jumping of a wall and landed clumsily.

I'm not saying JKR will copy any of these ideas, but she does enjoy Austen's stories.

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draco all the way - Jun 21, 2004 3:50 am (#977 of 2916)

This is off topic, but I couldn't resist. When I was reading Emma I knew exactly what's going to happen because I'd already seen the movie Clueless.

Anywho, Tonks/Kingsley - not likely.

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Steve Newton - Jun 21, 2004 11:26 am (#978 of 2916)

Librarian
I'm glad to see that the talk has turned to Tonks. As S.E. Jones has mentioned, and maybe many other, Tonks acts very young for her age, her early 20s. I keep coming back to the person we know that is 6-8 years younger but carrying adult burdens. Tonks and Harry?

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 21, 2004 2:13 pm (#979 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Big problem with both Tonks and Fleur for Harry -- time! Just when are they going to find time to be together? Now if either of these two young ladies became the new DADA teacher, we might have something. However, I doubt Rowling as a former teacher would feel comfortable writing a Teacher/Student 'ship.

So again, how would they spend any quality time together if the lady isn't a teacher or staff member? No, I am afraid it makes the most sense for Harry to get involved with a fellow student.

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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 21, 2004 2:29 pm (#980 of 2916)

I Am Almighty!
Well, Harry is going to have his shortest stay at Privet Drive this year. If he ends up at the headquarters of the Order for most of the summer, he may spend a good deal of time around Tonks. I don't really think a Tonks/Harry 'ship is likely, though.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 21, 2004 3:06 pm (#981 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
I agree Nimrod. Harry and Tonks might become closer friends. The future auror and the current auror sort of thing. But beyond that, I don't see it.

Harry's 'ship keeps coming down in my mind to which young lady offers the best tie-up of all the many different story threads. Tonks simply doesn't close off that many of them.

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Catherine - Jun 21, 2004 4:32 pm (#982 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I could see Tonks being a mentor to Harry, but nothing romantic. It just feels too icky otherwise, what with the age difference. When I was Tonks's age, I was a high school teacher, and I could not imagine being romantically involved with someone who was 15 or 16 years old....EEUUWWW!

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Accio Book Six - Jun 22, 2004 10:42 am (#983 of 2916)

I think if Harry needs a mentor he probably won't go to Tonks... I mean, is she really the mentor type?

I think that Harry really needs a person with a personality that not only suits him and knows how to have fun, but one that can challenge him and keep him in check. He needs a rock... does anyone pop up in your mind?? *cough*ginny*cough*

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Catherine - Jun 22, 2004 11:31 am (#984 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I disagree. I think Tonks is definitely the "mentor" type.

I think that Tonks has shown that she's willing to teach some "tricks of the trade" to the kids. She showed Ginny how to tell if a door was Imperturbed, for example. Tonks is one of the last Hogwarts students to have qualified as an Auror. She would be an excellent and approachable resource for Harry and Ron or even Ginny to learn more about the training involved. She's closer to his age, and could help make sure that Harry comes up to scratch. She can also tell him what the tests are like.

That's what I meant by "mentor."

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Accio Book Six - Jun 22, 2004 12:12 pm (#985 of 2916)

I guess mentor just implies a more spiritual guidance as well as practical guidance in my mind. I could totally see Harry getting some good solid help or advice from tonks, but I couldn't see her as a real "mentor" for him. If anyone will be his mentor, it will be Dumbledore or Lupin... or even Arthur Weasley. When I think of a mentor, I think more of an Obi-Wan Kenobi, or a Splinter from the Ninja Turtles... you know? Tonks just doesn't fit in there...

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scorpio 75 - Jun 23, 2004 9:24 am (#986 of 2916)

How come nobody mentioned Harry ending up with Hermione instead? Is is not possible? After all, they do look cute together.

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Ladybug220 - Jun 23, 2004 9:59 am (#987 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Scorpio,

That has been a huge, ongoing debate on this thread... join in the fun!

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tracie1976 - Jun 23, 2004 10:43 am (#988 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
scorpio 75 there are a few people on the forum who believe Harry will end up with Hermione so it will be hard to find our posts lol.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 23, 2004 12:19 pm (#989 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.

Scorpio, I'm with you, Harry/Hermione do look cute together. Only, most shippers here (Actually all of them) seem to disagree with me.

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Star Crossed - Jun 23, 2004 12:21 pm (#990 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Not all. I do, but not everyone. It just happens that R/Hr shippers are very abundant here.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 23, 2004 12:43 pm (#991 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
If it makes you feel any better, I've often felt that R/H is going to be a very unequal partnership, and that Hermione would do better with Harry. However, Rowling is obviously setting up R/H, so we must look elsewhere for Harry's 'ship.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 23, 2004 12:49 pm (#992 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Star Crossed, I haven't met any H/H shipper since I came here. The way I saw it, I was ganged up by hordes of R/H shippers.

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Star Crossed - Jun 23, 2004 2:14 pm (#993 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I believe Tracie is one. We have battled it out a few times. Fun, fun times. Very Happy

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Padfoot - Jun 23, 2004 2:14 pm (#994 of 2916)

Are we R/H shippers intimidating? I have seen a handful of H/H shippers lurking around. Maybe y'all need to speak up!

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coolbeans3131 - Jun 23, 2004 6:03 pm (#995 of 2916)

Proud H/H shipper here! I don't really post about it on this forum very often though. I feel too greatly out numbered.

I think Ron likes Hermione, Hermione likes Harry and Harry will realize how he feels about Hermione in the next book.

I could be wrong, but I really don't enjoy R/H's bickering. When Harry told them to knock it off in OotP, I cheered him on.

Just so you know, before OotP I wasn't a shipper at all, but thought R/H and maybe H/G would get together. OotP completely changed my mind. I thought it reeked of H/H foreshadowing.

When is book six coming out?

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Star Crossed - Jun 23, 2004 7:09 pm (#996 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
What made you change your mind, if you don't mind me asking?

Hopefully next year.

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coolbeans3131 - Jun 23, 2004 8:44 pm (#997 of 2916)

Well, when I got done reading OotP, I had the H/H feeling for the first time ever, and I didn't quite know why. There was no one big thing I could put my finger on. I couldn't re-read it right away, as others (who were to cheap to buy their own) were waiting for my copy. So, I re-read the whole series.

I could actually see H/H in all the books. It's just subtle. They just care about each other so deeply and depend on each other, and I think it's setting up to there being partners, in every way. I think they're good for each other. I don't think it's a coincidence that Krum and Cho were jealous. One yes, but both? They're seeing something that Harry isn't.

As to what really changed my mind, I guess it's two things. The importance of H/H relationship in OotP (over and over it was H/H without Ron) and JK's decision to keep Hermione's feelings from us. Why be so open with us (the audience) with Rons feelings and keep Hermione's feelings secret? Why, in almost 1000 pages, didn't JKR put in two sentences about what's going on between Hermione and Krum? Even things that initially seem R/H, like Hemiomes scowl after Fluer's kissing Ron, she's left an out. Harry only noticed her reaction after Fluer kissed Ron, that doesn't mean she only reacted after Fluer kissed Ron. If you read the books with that in mind, you'll find she's left herself alot of outs.

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Accio Book Six - Jun 23, 2004 9:29 pm (#998 of 2916)

Why was Hermione so open and almost supportive and inquizitive about Harry's first kiss, then? You'd think that THAT would make her jealous, wouldn't you?

Although I'm not there with you on the H/H yet, I must say, coolbeans, that you've come closer to converting me than any other.

I also don't think that JKR is going to have Harry take anything else from Ron. I mean, Harry already gets everything. Ron would be devastated. Unless JKR's master plan actually DOES have Ron going to the DEs and becoming evil (probably because of too much jealousy), I can't see her doing that. Geez... I *hope* she doesn't do that!

oh... and could anyone tell me how to italicize or bolden my words? that would be super.

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Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 3:51 am (#999 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think it will be Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny.

But Harry hasn't taken everything from Ron. Ron did get to be Prefect, after all and got to play Quidditch in OP.

PS. Accio Book Six, check my post (#198) here for how to do bold, italics and underline.

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tracie1976 - Jun 24, 2004 5:30 am (#1000 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
quote: star crossed: I believe Tracie is one. We have battled it out a few times. Fun, fun times. Very Happy

Yes I'm a big H/Hr shipper lol. The only other two H/Hr shippers I can think of besides coolbeans3131 is Brandon Christopher and Molly Weasley Wanna Be. So we are definately outnumbered.

quote: Accio Book Six: Why was Hermione so open and almost supportive and inquizitive about Harry's first kiss, then? You'd think that THAT would make her jealous, wouldn't you?

When you look at the way Hermione asks the questions. JK put in that Hermione asked about the Cho in "a buisnesslike way" and Hermione asks about the kiss "briskly."

Then my favorite of the scene "Harry looked from Ron's expression of the mingled curiosity and hilarity to Hermione's slight frown , and nodded." (Bold mine)

I mean if she was happy about it, why did Hermione frown after she found out? The way she asked and frowned, I consider that she was jealous or she probably would have kept that "buisnesslike way" of talking about it.

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Post  Elanor on Sun May 15, 2011 2:11 am

Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 5:42 am (#1001 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Hermione's slight frown was because of Ron's "mingled curiosity and hilarity"

I definately think there was something going on between Ron and Hermione in OP. Not just an attraction, I think they were secretly dating. For example, when Draco asked Harry what it was like to be second best to Ron for once, Hermione told him to shut up, sharply if I remember. She knows Harry would feel like that if he discovered Ron and her were dating. Hermione might have thought Draco would bring Harry closer to finding out the truth.

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coolbeans3131 - Jun 24, 2004 6:01 am (#1002 of 2916)

Quote "I definitely think there was something going on between Ron and Hermione in OP. Not just an attraction, I think they were secretly dating."

Why would JKR need to have R/H date in secret? Why would any R/H shipper want that to be the case? That would mean you would miss out on all the great first moments. JKR knows how many R/H shippers there are. I don't think she'd do that to them.

Regardless, I'm sorry, but I don't think they would do that to Harry. Why would they lie to him all year? That wouldn't be necessary at all. I also don't think they acted at all, ever, in this book like a couple. You can't hide something like that for a whole year. Not only did Harry not notice anything, but word would have gotten around school and someone would have made a comment about it in Harry's earshot. And if something like that had gotten around, I don't think Cho would have been so jealous.

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Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 6:25 am (#1003 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
If R/Hr were dating in secret, I don't think we would see all those "great first moments". The books are in Harry's point of view, not Ron's or Hermione's. Unless JKR changes the format of the books, I don't think we would see R/Hr's moments unless Harry is there.

"Word would have gotten around school"

Not nescesarilly. Ron and Hermione are friends so there would be nothing to tell if they were walking around together. Yes, if they were holding hands or were saw kissing, that would give reason to some people to let it "accidentally" slip to Harry.

And if something like that had gotten around, I don't think Cho would have been so jealous.

But there was speculation in GF of a relationship between Harry and Hermione. Who wouldn't still think there was something going on? Cho was distraught at Cedric's death and she didn't know the full facts. Notice, she was crying and she was angry. What happens then, over exaggeration.

I just want to say here that I'm not against the H/Hr 'ship but was quite a supporter of it before OP. Since then, I started to doubt my desicion and changed to a R/Hr. If H/Hr did get together, would H/Hr 'shippers be called Har'Mione's?

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Accio Book Six - Jun 24, 2004 6:25 am (#1004 of 2916)

Well I'd imagine if they were keeping it secret from Harry, they'd keep it secret from the school. I'm not sure if I"m on board that they were "dating", but I definitely think that something was going on... like maybe they were both finally aware of eachother's feelings (at 12 Grimmauld Place?) and had mutual desires to be with eachother, but decided to suppress it for now because Harry would need them more than ever, and they wouldn't want him to feel excluded. So it would be *sort* of like them dating, but they're not really yet. This could also explain why there WASN'T really any more of those awkward moments anymore that are supposed to lead us to believe that they would end up together... they knew about eachother but were trying to keep that from Harry. This is very much like JKR, to make you think that something is gone and forget about it, and then explain that it was there all along or something to that effect.

Oh, and just one more thing. When she was frowning slightly, I take the description "frowning slightly" to be the face you make when you're thinking, not because you're sad or upset. I think Hermione has "frowned slightly" a number of times when she was deep in thought... hasn't she? MAYBE she was thinking about whether to tell Harry about her and Ron or not, now that Harry has a girlfriend... but she is too smart to do that. She knew that Harry wouldn't last with her.

EDIT: haha, we posted at the same time, Prongs!

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tracie1976 - Jun 24, 2004 6:33 am (#1005 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Even though I don't think Ron and Hermione were secretly dating, why would Hermione put Harry first before Ron if they were? We have her setting up the D.A., she also set up the Rita Skeeter interview on Valentine's Day. To me it seems like Hermione's most important "subject" is Harry and his well being...well besides homework lol. I mean, even if it took Hermione a couple of months to set up the interview with Rita, do you think she would do that on Valentine's Day and break off anything off with Ron if they were dating? This caused a big blow up between Harry and Cho, and we all know how Ron's temper can get when he's mad. Hermione could have set it up for Rita to meet with Harry near the lake or something on Hogwart's grounds in her animagus form.

realizes she's rambling...so shuts up for now *

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Accio Book Six - Jun 24, 2004 6:38 am (#1006 of 2916)

Well I don't think that Hermione knew about her being an animangus at that point... and if she did, she wouldn't have WANTED skeeter to know that she knew. And I think Hermione planned the interview for Valentine's day just because that was the next Hogsmeade triip and Rita wasn't allowed in Hogwarts grounds anymore.

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Chris. - Jun 24, 2004 6:39 am (#1007 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Even though I don't think Ron and Hermione were secretly dating, why would Hermione put Harry first before Ron if they were? We have her setting up the D.A., she also set up the Rita Skeeter interview on Valentine's Day. To me it seems like Hermione's most important "subject" is Harry and his well being...

I think Hermione was putting Harry first because she wanted Harry to realised she cared for him, as a friend of course. She thought when she and Ron would tell Harry about their relationship, he might remember everything Ron and Hermione's done for him and be happy for them.

EDIT: Hermione did know about Rita being an animagus. Rita even knew herself that Hermione knew. Hermione caught her in GF and made her promise that she wouldn't write again, unless it was for good things or she would tell the authorities about Rita being an animagus.

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tracie1976 - Jun 24, 2004 6:42 am (#1008 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Hermione found out that Rita was animagus in fourth year.

GoF pg. 727 : "Oh not electronic bugs," said Hermione. "No, you see....Rita Skeeter"--- Hermione's voice trembled with quiet triumph----"is an unregistered Animagus. She can turn---"
edit: prongs beat me to it lol.

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Star Crossed - Jun 24, 2004 6:52 am (#1009 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I did get something strong with R/Hr in OP. I could definitly tell something different happened. I was not sure what, and I'm still not, but I don't think it's dating. More of realization. I like the idea that they have to be there for Harry. Wait until it's the perfect time, and OP just wasn't it. Then when they find out Harry has a girlfriend, Ron cheers - He can finally date Hermione. But Hermione knows that Cho and Harry just cannot stay together, hence the frown, or it could be that she's considering all this and she's frowning. I know when I'm deep in thought, I frown, I believe it's the same for Hermione.

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Green Eyes - Jun 24, 2004 6:55 am (#1010 of 2916)

I've never understood where people get the Harry/Hermione thing...she acts like his mother...like I do with my kids...lecturing, warning, telling him "NO" at least a thousand times a day. Now Harry does need some mothering...but that is a very different relationship than a romantic one where partners tend to share outlooks on life and help one another achieve goals without the "mothering" element. Ginny begins to do this with Harry in OOTP...I've always thought she would be the one because of her place in the Chamber of Secrets. Cho had me doubting for a while. But look how Ginny is juxtaposed against Cho in OOTP...why? Cho is a human hosepipe after Cedric's death and can't cope at all...Ginny has a lot more reason to be upset after her experiences in COS...she's a seeker - why Ginny? Why not Dean or Seamus or someone else? Ginny becomes stronger from her experiences...Cho is falling apart...look at it metaphorically as well as literally.

Harry has slowly started to separate from Ron and Hermione ... not in a huge sense but psychologically...we see it in the way he gets angry and they can't handle him...he gets more angry the more they try to placate him. They are made prefects - not him. They ride separately from him on the train. He begins to rely on others for support (Fred/George/Ginny) when he has a problem. I've written about this before...it started with GOF when he faces the Triwizard Tournament without either Ron or Hermione at his side whereas in previous books he had at least one of them with him.

He needs Ron and Hermione but he's going to need others too. And I agree there should be no conflict between Ron and Harry with Hermione...but frankly I don't think there is.

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tracie1976 - Jun 24, 2004 7:09 am (#1011 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
quote Green Eyes: I've never understood where people get the Harry/Hermione thing...she acts like his mother...like I do with my kids...lecturing, warning, telling him "NO" at least a thousand times a day.

You can say she does that with Ron too. Lecturing on how he's not suppose to be copying off her notes and/or homework. Lecturing on how he is suppose to be doing his prefect duties. Plus there are porbably others that I don't know right off.

guess that theory for Harry and Hermione getting together works with the Hermione and Ron getting together too*

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Accio Book Six - Jun 24, 2004 7:20 am (#1012 of 2916)

Exactly, Star Crossed.

Neville Longbottom - Jun 24, 2004 8:39 am (#1013 of 2916)[/b]
Green Eyes, to be fair, Ginny's traumatic incident was in book 2, Cedric's death in book 4. I think it is totally logical that Cho has more problems dealing with it than Ginny, because it was more recent. Ginny had some time dealing with it offscreen, since she wasn't much around Harry in book 4 and especially 3, while Cho's loss is still fresh. That said, I agree with you that the two characters were compared several times during OotP, starting with the Stinksap-Scene, where Cho ran away, but Ginny knew how to vanish the stinksap. In fact, Ginny faired so much better in the comparisons again and again during the whole book, that during rereading I started to like Cho better and Ginny, because of the IMO a bit unfair way both girls were portrayed. Since Cho didn't play any other part than being Harry's girlfriend, I suppose this means that the comparison between the two is because Jo wants us to show who is the right one for Harry. And I don't think there's any doubt, who got the cake in OotP.

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Czarina II - Jun 24, 2004 11:18 am (#1014 of 2916)

Don't forget that in the Quidditch Cup final in OoP, Ginny grabbed the Snitch right out from under Cho's nose. Cho is a sixth-year and has been on the Ravenclaw team for at least two years. Ginny is a fourth-year and has been on the Gryffindor team for less than one year. Ginny proves to be the better Seeker, which just also happens to be Harry's position. Also, if Harry is being represented by the Snitch, Ginny quite literally takes him away.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 24, 2004 11:25 am (#1015 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
I really, really doubt that Ron and Hermione are secretly dating. It is very difficult to hide that sort of thing, especially from your best friend who knows every nuance of your behaviour patterns. Harry would have noticed something was up.

I've told this story before. I once had a roommate in college who was seriously dating this girl. One evening when he returned from a date, I was sitting with my back to the door. I didn't even have to turn around. I could tell by just the sound of him opening the door and walking into the apartment that he had proposed.

Harry lives in the same dorm as Ron. He spends hours at a time with Ron and Hermione. He will notice any changes of behaviour.

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Catherine - Jun 24, 2004 11:47 am (#1016 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I don't think that Ron and Hermione are secretly dating in OoP. But I do wonder if Harry would have jealousy issues over their dating. When Harry first arrived at 12 Grimmauld Place, he was very frustrated about being cooped up at Privet Drive with no information while he perceived that Ron and Hermione had been having fun without him.

This leads me to wonder if Ron and Hermione would want Harry to know that they were dating. It could be a difficult thing if Harry thinks that his two closest friends are paying more attention to each other than to him.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 24, 2004 12:31 pm (#1017 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Tracie, Coolbeans, take 10 points to Har'Mione society.

Ginny grabbed the Snitch right out from under Cho's nose.--Czarina

I've seen many HP/GW shippers argue that. But didn't Harry capture the snitch thrice from Malfoy? What do you make of it? Harry/Pansy? Harry's captured snitch from Cho once. Doesn't the same logic apply in both these situations? I think the snitch theory is completely rubbish.

Harry/Hermione for me.

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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 24, 2004 1:36 pm (#1018 of 2916)

I Am Almighty!
Although I am a firm believer that Ron and Hermione will end up together, I don't think they were secretly dating in OotP. One of my favorite lines of the book is when Hermione is is giving Harry advice about girls:

"Harry, you're worse than Ron...Well, no, you're not," she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall spattered with mud and looking grumpy. OotP p. 572 US

I think Hermione is waiting for Ron to get a clue about relationships.

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Padfoot - Jun 24, 2004 2:15 pm (#1019 of 2916)

While I think Ron and Hermione will end up together at some point, they aren't there yet. I do not think they are secretly dating. Hermione maybe able to handle keeping a secret like that, but not Ron. Hopefully in book 6 Ron will get up the nerve to ask Hermione out.

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coolbeans3131 - Jun 24, 2004 5:02 pm (#1020 of 2916)

quote from Catherine Allen"I don't think that Ron and Hermione are secretly dating in OoP. But I do wonder if Harry would have jealousy issues over their dating. When Harry first arrived at 12 Grimmauld Place, he was very frustrated about being cooped up at Privet Drive with no information while he perceived that Ron and Hermione had been having fun without him.

This leads me to wonder if Ron and Hermione would want Harry to know that they were dating. It could be a difficult thing if Harry thinks that his two closest friends are paying more attention to each other than to him."

This seems a bit contradictory to me. Yes Harry felt left out, not only because he wasn't with them, but because they kept information form him. They knew how he felt right off the bat. Lying to him all year would be seen as a betrayal to Harry.

His two best friends lying to him and sneaking around behind his back for a whole year would be a lot tougher to take than any feelings of jealousy Harry might have about them dating.

I'm a H/H shipper, but admit any ship is possible with JKR. However, I cannot believe R/H were secretly dating in OotP.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 24, 2004 7:08 pm (#1021 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I must say, of all the H/H - R/H arguments I've seen on the board, this has been the calmest and, well, nicest of them all. Bravo to all of you! Keep it up!

I don't think Ron and Hermione were dating in OotP either. Even if something were starting to happen at 12GP over the summer I think they would've quickly put a hold on it when they saw how distraught their best friend was. He needed his two best buddies and he didn't need to find out they were stealing glances at the dinner table all summer or whatever. They both care for him enough to put things on hold a little longer, especially considering what Harry'd just been through (Voldemort coming back, seeing Cedric die right in front of him, having to fight for his life in a graveyard, all the stress of the Triwizard, etc.).

As for how Harry and Hermione fit, I don't think they do. I keep seeing comments in OotP where Harry is too afraid to admit something t Hermione, almost like he's afraid she'd use the information against him (which we know she wouldn't) or that she'd pick at him because of it (which we also know she wouldn't do). [Harry] imagined tring to conceal from Hermione that he had recieved T's in all his OWLs and immediately resolved to work harder from now on. (OotP, ch15). He was glad Hermione had not been in the Hall at the time and neglected to mention it to her afterward. He could tell Ron, though; Ron had caused a dinner plate to mutate into a large mushroom and had no idea how it had happened. (OotP, ch31). Ron, on the other hand, doesn't seem bothered by Hermione's nagging or picking. When she's trying to get them to mention their Potions grades, Harry, who is imberresed, makes a noncommittal noise and avoids the conversation, but Ron says quite boldly, "if you want to know what grades we got, ask.... I got a P. Happy?" Yes, she picks at lectures Ron as much as Harry but Ron responds to it differently. It's their interactions and responses that I think are more telling.

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Czarina II - Jun 24, 2004 8:21 pm (#1022 of 2916)

Perhaps Ron and Hermione's relationship in OoP was a lot like the one portrayed in the new PoA film. There's definitely SOMETHING there, but nothing has happened yet. They haven't even admitted it to each other; they both think their awkwardness around each other is just them. It is likely that in the next book, they will actually date. Maybe Valentine's? ;-) (But if it is to be serious, we likely won't find that out until Bk7.)

Note: Just something I thought of -- While Hermione nags at and mothers both Harry and Ron, it is only Ron whom she wants to "get a clue" in the romantic department.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 24, 2004 9:18 pm (#1023 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
He was glad Hermione had not been in the Hall at the time and neglected to mention it to her afterward. He could tell Ron, though; Ron had caused a dinner plate to mutate into a large mushroom and had no idea how it had happened.--S.E.Jones.

I think I can understand that. We know Hermione is a know-it-all and does seem to be proud of her achievements in school. In CoS, she shows Harry and Ron the neatly transfigured coat buttons when Harry and Ron had trouble concentrating due to a certain broken wand. Had Harry told Hermione about how he messed up the "color changing" charm and "Engorgement" charm in his OWL practical, Hermione would've just told him how successfully her exam went. This would've made Harry feel worse. Telling Ron on the other hand must've made Ron think that he wasn't the only one who messed up the exam and have felt better.

Ron, on the other hand, doesn't seem bothered by Hermione's nagging or picking.--S.E.Jones

Isn't Ron bothered by Hermione's nagging? He clearly asks Hermione to stop nagging him in PS/SS just before the second quidditch match.(when they are learning the leg-locker curse) It is because of Hermione's nagging that they have so many arguments.

P.S: Ok every one can wake up now, I've finished.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 24, 2004 10:33 pm (#1024 of 2916)

Let it snow!
And here the semantics arguments come...

Tornedo: Isn't Ron bothered by Hermione's nagging? He clearly asks Hermione to stop nagging him in PS/SS just before the second quidditch match.

I'm mean "bothered" as in "upset by". He doesn't like to be nagged, who does? But Ron doesn't feel the need to hide these things from Hermione as Harry does. Harry has been picked on his whole life and perhaps he's afraid of every little thing being picked at, even by his friends (though I doubt she would), but Ron isn't bothered/embarrased about getting a lesser grade and isn't afraid to admit it to her face. He doesn't have to be on equal ground with her academically and he's fine with that. That's all I was saying.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 25, 2004 2:35 am (#1025 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.

Point taken, Sarah.

But in the end it all boils down to the fact that Harry doesn't speak out and often keeps things to himself.(The only secrets I remember him telling Ron and Hermione are: Snape threatening Quirrel; Sirius being after his blood; and his scar hurting). He also doesn't like to annoy his friends unnecessarily. Ron on the other hand tends to be vocal and a bit rebellious. As Hermione seems to be the one among the three who abides by the rules, it's no wonder Ron and Hermione bicker a lot.

By the way--this may be a bit off topic-- does anybody actually remember on what issues the two of them bicker apart from Snape's loyalty and homework?

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S.E. Jones - Jun 25, 2004 4:53 am (#1026 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I've said this before and I'll say it again, I think they bicker mostly because they are the personifications of the inner workings of our hero's (Harry's) mind. You are quite right that we have a very introverted main character, and when there is a decision to be reached about something, we don't often see him doing the deliberating but staying nuetral until a decision is reached and then chiming in one way or another. This allows him (and us, the readers, since we experience the story through him, to stay nuetral in most decision making proceedures until the end) and shows us the inner workings of a very introverted character (sort of the angel and devil on your shoulder). Because Ron and Hermione are given opposing view points, they seem like opposites but aren't really. I've said this much better before, if anyone cares to read it, in post 897.

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Catherine - Jun 25, 2004 5:07 am (#1027 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Tornedo, Ron and Hermione often bicker about house elves and S.P.E.W. They bickered about Crookshanks and Scabbers; about the Firebolt; about Ron being a responsible prefect.

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Star Crossed - Jun 25, 2004 5:27 am (#1028 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Tornedo: We know Hermione is a know-it-all and does seem to be proud of her achievements in school. In CoS, she shows Harry and Ron the neatly transfigured coat buttons when Harry and Ron had trouble concentrating due to a certain broken wand. Had Harry told Hermione about how he messed up the "color changing" charm and "Engorgement" charm in his OWL practical, Hermione would've just told him how successfully her exam went. This would've made Harry feel worse. Telling Ron on the other hand must've made Ron think that he wasn't the only one who messed up the exam and have felt better.

I don't think a relationship where you are too afraid to open up to your significant other is a very good one. It doesn't matter what he's afraid of, he's still afraid of something. He knows what Hermione's going to to do, and that bothers him. I don't think this shows they're going to get together anytime soon.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 25, 2004 8:23 am (#1029 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Over on the Ginny thread a few of us got talking about Rons reaction to Ginny dating in OotP, however it was moving a bit off topic (my fault), so I thought I'd post some of the ideas over on this thread.... seeing as it skirts possible 'ships & the relationship between the two youngest Weasleys.

When Ron found out about Ginny & Michael, he was shocked, stunned & even a little bit angry. However most of the anger may have come from the fact that he heard about it from Hermione & not his own sister... (hardly surprising that Ginny didn't want to tell him seeing his reaction). We concluded that he was reacting badly because he always seen Ginny as his baby sister & that it was hard from him to accept that she is growing up. One could also argue the fact that Rons little baby sister was now dating, before him, added to the shock element.

To his merit though, Ron appears to keep his opinions to himself around Ginny, & he doesn't like to broach the subject with others either. However, by the end of the book, he seems to have gotten used to the idea of his sister dating, as he was more casual in his conversations about it. He even asks a direct question about Ginnys relationship with Michael.... on the train on the way home, well their breakup that is, & only made a comment on Michael (to Ginny) once he knew they were finished ... (however I could be wrong, I've only read OotP twice)

'Michael — but — ' said Ron, craning around in his seat to stare at her. 'But you were going out with him!'
'Not any more,' said Ginny resolutely. 'He didn't like Gryffindor beating Ravenclaw at Quidditch, and got really sulky, so I ditched him and he ran off to comfort Cho instead.'
Ron looked highly delighted. 'Well, I always thought he was a bit of an idiot,' he said, prodding his queen forwards towards Harry's quivering castle. 'Good for you. Just choose someone — better — next time. He cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it.

So, now Ron seems to have got used to the fact his sister is dating, he's more open to the idea that she will date other people, just not Michael So then.... what does the furtive look mean?

A furtive look (well to me anyways) is one that you're trying not to be obvious about, so when Ron looks at Harry, he doesn't want anyone to notice him doing so. My initial reaction was that he would like to see Ginny & Harry together.... & was thinking this through in his mind when he looked over at Harry. However, judging by his reaction to Ginny dating in the first place, would he really be that pleased about it, or has he finally accepted that she's growing up?

In that case was the furtive look in Harrys direction, to check Harrys reaction to this piece of news.... either to see if he was upset about Cho, (which he clearly wasn't), or was it to see how he would react to the news that Ginny was single again (& that Ron was ok with the idea that Ginny would be dating again in the future ) If he was trying to guage Harrys reaction, then he wouldn't want to be seen doing so.

You could also argue that the look could also have been directed in Harrys direction as Rons comment may have been meant for Harry too, as in 'choose someone better next time' choose someone better than Cho. Perhaps 'ol Ronnie is finally beginning to get wise to the ways of the world & starting to 'get a clue' dating wise. Time will tell... as will books 6 & 7

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 25, 2004 9:09 am (#1030 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Fawkes,

Ron wants Harry and Ginny to get together. But it is a somewhat vague notion with him, similar in many respects to his budding relationship with Hermione.

I've known many young people just like that, especially middle teenagers. They are the last people to know that they are attracted to someone.

Marcus

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 25, 2004 9:18 am (#1031 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
That was my initial thought Marcus.... I'm probably just over analysing again

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 25, 2004 10:18 am (#1032 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Rowling tends to make one do that, Fawkes. She's just too good with those red herrings. :-)

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Accio Book Six - Jun 25, 2004 11:47 am (#1033 of 2916)

I wish she'd hurry up with the next book so we don't have to wait forever to find out! I mean, I thought she would have learned her lesson with GoF...

I know I'm going to get flamed with all the people defending JKR... but I KNOW she has kids. I KNOW she has a lot of other things going on. I understand why it's taken this long and will take a bit longer... I'm just saying that I really hope it doesn't take 3 years or something

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Padfoot - Jun 25, 2004 11:53 am (#1034 of 2916)

Three years? Who could wait that long? Not me. Maybe if we all really concentrate hard enough, she will get inspired and finish book 6.

Fawkes, over analyzing these books is half the fun!

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Sir Tornado - Jun 25, 2004 12:42 pm (#1035 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
(post 1027)

Tornedo: We know Hermione is a know-it-all and does seem to be proud of her achievements in school. In CoS, she shows Harry and Ron the neatly transfigured coat buttons when Harry and Ron had trouble concentrating due to a certain broken wand. Had Harry told Hermione about how he messed up the "color changing" charm and "Engorgement" charm in his OWL practical, Hermione would've just told him how successfully her exam went. This would've made Harry feel worse. Telling Ron on the other hand must've made Ron think that he wasn't the only one who messed up the exam and have felt better.

Star Crossed: I don't think a relationship where you are too afraid to open up to your significant other is a very good one. It doesn't matter what he's afraid of, he's still afraid of something. He knows what Hermione's going to to do, and that bothers him.-- Star Crossed.

Star Crossed, I was merely trying to defend Harry's fear of being picked out by his friends.(which was mentioned by S.E. Jones in post 1020)

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Star Crossed - Jun 25, 2004 1:12 pm (#1036 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Alrighty then. Sorry for the confusion. Very Happy

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Green Eyes - Jun 25, 2004 2:32 pm (#1037 of 2916)

If we see the book through Harry's POV...then how would he know if Ron is lecturing Ginny about dating or giving her a hard time about it? I'm not convinced this is actually going on...I think Ron is getting used to the idea that Ginny's not a baby and is perhaps cute/pretty and would attract interest.

As for the snatching the snitch from Cho business as an analogy to snatching Harry from under her nose...I think it is important because it's Cho ( who has been involved with Harry) and Ginny who is now seeker and held a torch for him before. There is no girl in the story that Harry and Draco or Harry and any other seeker have been involved with for that to be used as an analogy for relationships.

The other question that you have to consider and I think I've discussed this on this forum before is why is Ginny so prominent in this book at all? Why is she made seeker replacing Harry? She doesn't have to be there to further the story...why is does she beat Cho? Why does she go to the library to talk to Harry? Couldn't Harry have gone straight to Fred and George for help talking to Sirius?

What's the first thing we hear Ginny say when she finds Harry in the library? "Harry, I'm talking to you; can you hear me?" This line, and Harry's being unaware that she is even there sums up their entire relationship thus far...now she is finally speaking and he notices her! And notice how long it takes him to confide in her about talking to Sirius...he doesn't want Ron and Hermione to know!

Anyway...I'm rambling.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 25, 2004 10:37 pm (#1038 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Fawkes Forever: We concluded that he was reacting badly because he always seen Ginny as his baby sister & that it was hard from him to accept that she is growing up.

I wonder if some of Ron's anger didn't come from the fact that she's, in some ways, his Ginny. They're only about a year apart in age and so must've grown up pretty close, he may not've liked the idea of sharing her affection with someone else. Yes, she has other brothers, but they're his brothers too, this Micheal guy is some outsider. The furtive look might be because Harry isn't an outsider but someone Ron feels comfortable sharing her with.... Just my two knuts....

Star Crossed: I don't think a relationship where you are too afraid to open up to your significant other is a very good one. It doesn't matter what he's afraid of, he's still afraid of something. He knows what Hermione's going to to do, and that bothers him.

Star Crossed, you made the point I was trying to make, though apparently badly. Harry has some fears about opening up to Hermione's possible criticism, Ron doesn't seem to mind it (i.e. he won't be personally hurt by it the way Harry might).

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Sir Tornado - Jun 26, 2004 12:36 am (#1039 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Why is she (Ginny) made seeker replacing Harry?--Green Eyes

Because, she is better than anyone else in Gryffindor except Harry (who is suspended).

Why is does she (Ginny) beat Cho?--Green Eyes

Because JKR wanted to portray Ron winning the match for Gryffindor, and we know that in all the matches we have read so far except two, the seeker who captures the snitch wins the match(Gryffindor winning that match was important).

Why does she (Ginny) go to the library to talk to Harry?--Green Eyes.

Ginny does not go to the Library to talk to Harry. She goes there to give him his Easter egg he got from Mrs Weasley.

Ron doesn't seem to mind it (being picked at) (i.e. he won't be personally hurt by it the way Harry might).--S.E. Jones

Yeah, Ron won't mind it, but it would lead to an argument between Ron and Hermione and they might end up not speaking to each other all morning.

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Star Crossed - Jun 26, 2004 6:29 am (#1040 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't know what match it is, but Harry watches Ginny Seek, and he says she misses it a few times he would have caught. Does that mean she could have gotten him to like her a few times but it didn't work?

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Green Eyes - Jun 26, 2004 6:58 am (#1041 of 2916)

Tornedo, why is Ginny better than anyone else in Gryffindor to be seeker...because JKR wants her to be and makes her prominent in the story by giving her this role. Why? Perhaps to place her in Harry's line of vision? Perhaps to put her on the team with him next book? Perhaps she's not a threat to Harry's position as seeker? She tells him she'd rather chase.

As for beating Cho by catching the snitch...yes JKR wants Ron to finally win for the team, but that doesn't negate the symbolic nature of Ginny catching the snitch right out from under Cho's nose. It shows us she's better than Cho ...the same can be said when we see Harry beat Malfoy...he is better not just at Quidditch, but we see him as besting his rival Smile. It works on more than one level.

As for the library...Ginny does go there to talk to Harry, or at least hopes to. She says "you've been really down lately." The egg is a pretense...why did she go looking to give it to him? She could've waited and seen him in Gryffindor tower and given to him then? She's been at practice, receives the package and immediately goes to look for him...she's "very windswept." She went out of her way to find him and give him that egg, to cheer him up.

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Accio Book Six - Jun 26, 2004 8:43 am (#1042 of 2916)

Well argued, you guys. I'm personally on the side of the argument for H/G. It always feels nice to very adequately rebutt an argument, so well played, Green Eyes.

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Green Eyes - Jun 26, 2004 10:40 am (#1043 of 2916)

Thank you, Accio Book Six!

By the by have any of you seen the mugglenet website...someone has supposedly stumbled on the title of book six? It's unconfirmed but it is on the website! Check it out!

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Sir Tornado - Jun 26, 2004 12:25 pm (#1044 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I don't know what match it is, but Harry watches Ginny Seek, and he says she misses it a few times he would have caught. Does that mean she could have gotten him to like her a few times but it didn't work?--Star Crossed.

That was in the match against Ravenclaw(against Zacharias' side). Incidently, Ginny caught the snitch but lost the match.(What does this signify, I don't know. Maybe she is going to win Harry's affections and lose them! Just kidding.)

As for beating Cho by catching the snitch...yes JKR wants Ron to finally win for the team, but that doesn't negate the symbolic nature of Ginny catching the snitch right out from under Cho's nose. It shows us she's better than Cho ...the same can be said when we see Harry beat Malfoy...he is better not just at Quidditch, but we see him as besting his rival Smile. It works on more than one level.--Green Eyes.

Green Eyes, Ginny is not a better seeker than Cho. It just happens that during that particular year, Cho was not flying well(I think Hermione says that at some point while explaining Cho's feelings to Harry and Ron). Harry himself notices that Cho is an excelent seeker during his third year.(Ok, tell me who doesn't disagree with that?)

As for the library...Ginny does go there to talk to Harry, or at least hopes to. She says "you've been really down lately." The egg is a pretense...why did she go looking to give it to him? She could've waited and seen him in Gryffindor tower and given to him then? She's been at practice, receives the package and immediately goes to look for him...she's "very windswept." She went out of her way to find him and give him that egg, to cheer him up.--Green Eyes

Ginny does not go to the Library to talk to Harry. She's trying to give him the egg, but he does not notice her as he is thinking about Snape's memory.Ginny isn't at practise because it is cancelled (I think one of the beaters knocks himself out with his own bat and Ron takes him to Hospital) Why doesn't Ginny wait for Harry to return to Common room? Because Ginny hasn't got anything to do as it was quidditch practise time and she recieves the egg; thus decides to go to library to give Harry his.(she might've given others their eggs already; just a guess)

Oh I just love these One-on-One debates

P.S: Yeah I read that on Mugglenet.com.

The title to the Sixth book: Harry Potter and the Pillar of Storgé--Mugglenet.com

Storgé is Greek for 'parental love'. --Mugglenet.com

I bet it some how relates to Lily. By the way, the clue in the third movie might as well have been Lupin talking to Harry about Lily and not the flirting between Ron and Hermione.(If that's what it was)I still haven't found connection between CoS, GoF and PoS, let alone guess the story, but then I've strayed away enough from the main topic.

I think I've rambled enough. Your thoughts.

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Green Eyes - Jun 26, 2004 2:00 pm (#1045 of 2916)

This is fun Tornedo!

I'm not saying Cho isn't a good seeker...but where is it written that she is better than Ginny? And no matter how good she was before,Ginny beats her...and this after Ginny has only played one year! Cho should have beaten her on experience alone...so perhaps Ginny is better! The fact that Harry comments on Cho being good in earlier books maybe due to the fact that he liked her then. Harry comments that Ginny is good, but being that she's the new Gryffindor seeker, it would be hard for him to admit she was better than him Smile.

As for the library scene...again, why does she go to give him the egg...to cheer him up and talk to him...maybe she didn't know they would talk about Sirius...Ginny had no way of knowing what was bothering Harry. In fact,she thinks Cho is the problem. But she went to find him. She goes to the table and he doesn't see her till she speaks...she isn't trying to hand him the egg yet...they talk about Quidditch practice first. Yes, practice is over because someone got hurt, but we are told she is "wind swept" so she has just come from there. If the package with the eggs has only just come through screening, then it's safe to infer that she hasn't had time to find anyone else and give them their eggs.

I've said it before...this scene sums up their whole relationship to that point. Harry doesn't notice her UNTIL SHE TALKS TO HIM...then they have small talk about Quidditch (which they've already done earlier in the book), then she gives him the Easter egg (which is a symbol all in itself) thus being kind to him...then she asks him what's wrong...and he confides in her. This scene sets them up to be able to talk more later...now that she is willing to actually speak to him! "Harry looked at her. Perhaps it was the effect of the chocolate..."


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S.E. Jones - Jun 26, 2004 2:16 pm (#1046 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Let's keep discussion of the possible Book 6 title found on JKR's site on the 'JKR Official Site' thread, please.

Thanks!

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Sir Tornado - Jun 26, 2004 3:00 pm (#1047 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Green Eyes: Ginny notices that Harry is upset. She guesses wrong though, she thinks Harry is upset because of Cho. Then, she advices Harry to talk to Cho and solve the whole problem. Now, if she still fancied Harry, she wouldn't have said that would she?
Now, before you or anyone else points out Hermione's advice to Harry, as a H/H shipper, I'd like to say that Hermione has never adviced Harry to make up with Cho at any point or, to talk to Cho at all. She does ask Harry if he'd be going out with her, but then it could be out of curiosity. She seems to keep a very close look on Cho throughout OotP.(possibly since PoA) She does give advice to Harry about girls, but by this, she may not mean to help Harry understand Cho's feelings but to understand her own feelings. While pointing Harry his nistakes on his date with Cho, Hermione says "It might have been a good idea to mention her (Cho) how ugly you think I am." [There may be many mistakes here, but it boils down to this] Here, she seems (at least to me) to see if Harry thinks she's preety or not. Harry replies that he doesn't think that Hermione is ugly. Near the end of that conversation, Harry tells Hermione that Cho should have asked him whom he liked better, Hermione or Cho. (I really hope Cho'd asked that. I somehow think the answer would not have been Cho. Hermione concludes the conversation saying "Girls do not ask questions like that." She is trying to covertly convey her feelings to Harry; but Harry is completely at sea.

Let's keep discussion of the possible Book 6 title found on JKR's site on the 'JKR Official Site' thread, please.

Thanks! --S.E. Jones

Sorry Sarah, what I was trying to say was that if the title is true, the er, moments between Ron and Hermione in the 3rd movie would no longer be clues to the sixth book; but the clue in the movie is Lupin telling Harry about Lily. Many R/H shippers have argued that the PoA movie forshadowed R/H ship. That argument is buried.

P.S: I don't think I worded it correctly, but you get the gist.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 26, 2004 4:02 pm (#1048 of 2916)

Let it snow!
I don't think the argument is buried as there were supposedly many clues, but we will not know this until Book 6 comes out and we have it in hand. However, to discuss the clues in the movies, we have a 'Clues in the Movies' thread so please move the discussion there.

Thanks!

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TheQuibbler - Jun 26, 2004 4:17 pm (#1049 of 2916)

My thoughts are Ron+Hermione Harry+Ginny Neville+Luna

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Green Eyes - Jun 26, 2004 4:47 pm (#1050 of 2916)

Ginny suggests he talk to Cho because that's what she's heard from Ron and Hermione. She's trying to be a friend to him - not go there and profess her undying love Smile! Rowling is showing Ginny and Harry forming a relationship on their own separate from Ron and Hermione and in order for that to happen, Ginny has to get over the crush stuff and get to know the REAL person Harry...not the Boy Who Lived. She has already "given up on Harry" this is different from getting over him or forgetting him. My point in bringing it up was to show Ginny taking a first step in developing a real relationship wtih Harry by trying to be a friend to him and cheer him up. She succeeds by the way.

As for Hermione's reactions to Cho...she's acting as a friend would -giving advice on how to act around girls to her male friend. Giving the girls point of view to the boys. In fact, it's Hermione who suggests that he should ask her out...Ron says maybe he doesn't want to...Hermione says something like Don't be silly, Harry's liked her for ages. She doesn't sound like she fancies him at all. That she says Girls don't ask boys if they fancy them in the discussion of the date fiasco functions to answer Harry that Cho would not have asked him that question. Perhaps Hermione wouldn't either if in a similar circumstance but to infer that she's covering her feelings for Harry is a stretch...she could just as easily be thinking of Ron in fact more so based on the GOF Yule Ball stuff.

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Star Crossed - Jun 26, 2004 7:13 pm (#1051 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Alright, Tornedo, you have provided very good information about H/Hr, but please explain to me about the fight after the yule ball. All three reactions seem to point to R/Hr. Hermione tells Ron to ask her next time, Ron blushes, and Harry thinks Hermione got the idea correct. He's not sad, if anything, he's afraid to tell Ron the truth.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 27, 2004 1:16 am (#1052 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Tornedo: The result: Ron gets jealous and Hermione gets angry with him. Now, if Hermione really did fancied Ron, she'd be a bit happy to notice that Ron had feelings for her. But does she get happy? No, instead she has a blazing row with Ron.

She should be happy? What girl would be happy in that situation? I would be just as furious as Hermione, if not more so. She should be frustrated, angry, confused, exasperated, but not happy. I mean, she was already upset with him that it had taken him four years to notice she was a girl while Krum noticed right off the bat. Krum says all the things she wants to hear, shows actual romantic interest in her, and that's very intoxicating. Now, here's Ron finally showing interest (talk about bad timing!) and what's she supposed to do, just dump the guy who has been treating her so nice and actually showing interest because Ron maybe has finally gotten a clue? I can definately see why she's upset at him. As I said, I would've been screaming too, if not throwing something. Sheesh, men...

(No offense meant to our members of the masculine persuasion.)

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Sir Tornado - Jun 27, 2004 4:49 am (#1053 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Sorry, guys, I shouldn't have said Happy. I meant sort of satisfied.Would that be the right word? My mistake.

The correct version of that post should have been:

Star Crossed, the fight after Yule Ball seems to point to R/H ship, agreed. But actually, it doesn't. Ron is jealous of Krum and thus becomes angry at Hermione and Victor. Hermione, on the other hand is angry for some different reasons:

1) Ron considers her as a last resort

2) Ron attacks her loyalty towards Harry and accuses her of helping Krum with the egg.

3) Ron doesn't understand her feelings.

4) Harry reacts in no manner whatsoever. (I think fourth point needs some explaining)

I don't think Hermione seriously considered Krum at all, she was merely doing it to remind one of the two boys that she was a girl and that maybe she fancied them.

The result: Ron gets jealous and Hermione gets angry with him. Now, if Hermione really did fancied Ron, she'd be a bit satisfied to notice that Ron had feelings for her. But does she get happy? No, instead she has a blazing row with Ron. I think that because of the fact that Harry gave no sort of feelings of jealousy towards Hermione, that Hermione is most put out.

And what was the only part of the row in the common room that Harry hear? "Next time there's a ball, ask me before any one else does and not as a last resort." What does that convey to Harry?

We know that Hermione is the cleverest witch in her year. That cleverness may exceed into fields other than acadamics. Conveying her feelings to other peolple for instance. Hermione definately likes Harry and wants to know Harry's feelings towards her (That's not easy even for her). Many would disagree of course, but there are many clues towards that. I don't think she's waiting for Ron to tell her his feelings. She already knows and that's not her way. She likes to take initiative and does not wait for others.

In short, this is turning out to be a "farmer in the dell" theory by end of GoF. Ron fancies Hermione, Hermione fancies Harry and Harry in turn fancies someone outside the trio: Cho. By end of OotP, Cho's out of the way...

P.S:Green Eyes I'll get back to you later, I just don't have enough time right now.

And I might as well delete the origanal one if no one minds.

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Star Crossed - Jun 27, 2004 9:27 am (#1054 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
1) Ron considers her as a last resort.

Not really. He still hasn't asked Eloise. ;D

2) Ron attacks her loyalty towards Harry and accuses her of helping Krum with the egg.

Point taken. Hermione has every right to be angry over this.

3) Ron doesn't understand her feelings.

For him. Yes, I quite agree that Ron doesn't understand that yet.

4) Harry reacts in no manner whatsoever. (I think fourth point needs some explaining)

I don't even think she knew Harry was there. I think she was just so mad at Ron, she didn't even notice.

In short, this is turning out to be a "farmer in the dell" theory by end of GoF. Ron fancies Hermione, Hermione fancies Harry and Harry in turn fancies someone outside the trio: Cho. By end of OotP, Cho's out of the way...

...Leaving room for our lovely Ginny Weasley!

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Weeny Owl - Jun 27, 2004 11:27 am (#1055 of 2916)

After rereading all of the books, I still don't get any impression that Hermione feels anything for Harry other than friendship. She's concerned about him, but knowing about his home life and and the ordeals he's gone through, she'd have to have a heart of stone not to be affected. She is at ease with him in a way friends are with each other. There's just no tension.

Her relationship with Ron, however, is full of everything two teens who aren't sure of how to express what they're feeling go through. The feelings are there, but it's a new thing for both of them, and when feeling intensely about someone, reactions are going to be more in the extreme.

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Green Eyes - Jun 27, 2004 12:37 pm (#1056 of 2916)

Thank you Weeny Owl! In the fight they have in GOF, Ron is using every excuse why Hermione shouldn't be with Krum OTHER than she should be with him because he's just discovering his jealousy and either can't or won't admit it.

I've re read all the books soo many times looking for hints or whatever regarding Harry/Hermione and they are just not there. I think the are great friends and it is fine that way. Harry needs friends. He has needed Ron and Hermione's love and acceptance because they were the first two people with did love and accept him that he can remember. They almost function as parents to him (especially Hermione) and by the time we get to OOTP he is starting to open up his circle of friends and confidants through the DA, getting to know Ginny, help from Fred and George etc. Even his dating Cho has helped him grow even though it didn't turn out as he expected.

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the judderman - Jun 27, 2004 1:24 pm (#1057 of 2916)

I think that the most telling thing about the whole yule ball, and surely the most conclusive evidence of Hermiones feelings in the entire five books is the line, 'you know what to do if you dont like it, next time there's a ball ask me first and not as a last resort." This clearly shows, in my opinion, that Hermione knows that Ron likes her, as she is aware that he is jealous of her and Krum and not angry about Krum competing against Krum. This is also backed up by Harry who thinks that Hermione has grasped the argument better then Ron. I.E. both Harry and Hermione think that the argument is because Hermione didnt go to the ball with Ron, not because Hermione went with Krum.

Secondly, and more importantly, Hermione's sentence is 'ask me first next time,' and to paraphrase, things will be different. She is saying, if you dont like this outcome, you can change it by asking me first. This, again in my opinion, means clearly that if Ron asks Hermione to the next ball, she will go with him. Otherwise, "ask me first next time and not as a last resort," makes no sense, as it would then read, 'ask me first next time, and i will still turn you down.'

Now, to me anyway, the quote shows that Hermione knows that Ron likes her in a romantic way, and says that next time there is a ball, if he asks her first, she will go with him. This seems to me to mean that either

Hermione is prepared to lead on a friend who she knows is interested in her, which would seem cruel and thus unlike Hermione. * Hermione doesn't mean what she is saying, which is possible, but i think unlikely, as in this kind of argument she appears to be venting her feelings and letting go of secrets such as that she knows that Ron likes her.
Hermione would go to the ball with Ron to please him, despite having no romantic feelings for him, even though this would make them both feel awkward and upset Ron, and spoil Hermione's chances with the guy that she likes.
Hermione would go to the ball with Ron next time because he would be her first choice.

To me, the only scenario that fits with Hermione's quote and her character is the last one. (I know that people have already talked about this quote, and that ive rambled on for ages, but i thought i'd add my vote to R/H too)

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Chris. - Jun 27, 2004 1:56 pm (#1058 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
"Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!"(GF, Ch23, p376, UK edition)

I got the feeling that even though she was talking nicely to Krum and defending him, she didn't enjoy her time at the Ball and wished she had a better and more interesting partner, who she may or may not have thought of as Ron.

Ron gave Hermione perfume for a Christmas gift which shows he isn't afraid to show his feelings in front of people, Harry especially. What fifteen year old boy buys perfume for someone? Maybe Ron's different but I don't think so.

Onto Harry/Hermione 'ship.

In my honest opinion, I do not think Harry has any feelings for Hermione other than the ones people have for best and influential (In a good way) friend. He regards her as a friend and I think he realises Ron's attraction for Miss Granger.

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total hatred - Jun 27, 2004 4:50 pm (#1059 of 2916)

Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 27, 2004 7:15 pm
Ron+Hermione not likely. Harry+Luna 50%, Harry+Ginny 50%, Harry+Hermione 75%, Harry+Cho 40%, Harry+Pansy 35%, Ron and Hermione will not work since Hermione is far too annoyed of Ron to take him seriously. Harry and Luna can be a good pair since they have lots in common and they are in good terms with each. Harry and Ginny is also good but Harry must stop thinking her as his bestfiend little sister. Harry and Hermione is an excellent pair. In own humble opinion, Hermione is literally chasing Harry but Harry is to busy to notice this. If you want to argue with me fine with me. Harry and Cho ship is not feasible since Cho has a boyfiend right now. Harry and Pansy is bit a shocker. In my observation, Pansy fancies Harry. Pansy never involved in tormenting students in other houses except for Hermione which she does it with sadistic glee. In my analysis, she is trying to get Harry's attention while taking Mione out of the picture.

->Total Hatred, I edited this post and added punctuation. Please try to use proper punctuation as much as possible to help our members who do not use English as their first language understand your posts better. Thank you.<- SE Jones

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haymoni - Jun 27, 2004 7:07 pm (#1060 of 2916)

Do you think Krum recognized Hermione from the Top Box at the World Cup?

I mean, here he is at Hogwarts with only boys from his own school. He needs to find a date, he is a school champion and an internationally known athlete - God knows Karkaroff is probably breathing down his neck to be a perfect representative of Durmstrang.

He doesn't know a soul. Doesn't seem to be very adept at social interaction. He's in the library and he sees a face he recognizes. She's not goggling at him, as a matter of fact, she's annoyed at the attention he is getting. Hermione must have been a breath of fresh air to our poor Mr. Krum.

Hermione's no dummy. Ron hadn't asked her, so why shouldn't she go to the Ball with Viktor? I don't think Hermione has given Viktor any reason to think that she was interested in him as more than a friend. I think she is writing to him as a confidante, not as a girl friend. I also think that she may be staying in touch with him to see what he knows about Voldy coming back.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 27, 2004 10:16 pm (#1061 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Ginny suggests he talk to Cho because that's what she's heard from Ron and Hermione.--Green Eyes (post 1050)

What has Ginny heard from Ron and Hermione?

She's trying to be a friend to him - not go there and profess her undying love.--Green Eyes (post 1050)

There you have it, Ginny just wants to be Harry's friend not his girlfriend.

Rowling is showing Ginny and Harry forming a relationship on their own separate from Ron and Hermione and in order for that to happen, Ginny has to get over the crush stuff and get to know the REAL person Harry...not the Boy Who Lived.--Green Eyes (post 1050)

Actually,that conversation in the library is the only conversation Harry has with Ginny alone. I wouldn't say that Harry is forming a relationship with Ginny saperate from Ron and Hermione because of that one conversation.

As for Ginny's crush over Harry... that's a different matter...it was a crush little girls have on famous boys they never know. Now that she knows Harry as a person, she has got over her crush. Now think about it, why has Ginny given up on Harry? We know that Ginny does have a lot of chats with Hermione.They are sure to talk about Boys. At some point, they must have talked about Harry. Maybe, Hermione would have let it slip (accidently of course, I don't think She would do it on purpose) or maybe, Ginny guesses by Hermione's tone or because Hermione does talk about Harry a lot; that Hermione has crush on Harry herself. That would surely be a very good reason for Ginny to give up on Harry. I can't belive that Ginny has given up on Harry because of Cho; Hermione knows that Harry's liked Cho since the third year--She would've told Ginny before-- By the way, How does Hermione know Harry's liked Cho since the third year? Why does she pay so much attention to Harry' love life anyway? Don't tell me that she does it because she is Harry's best friend. Ron is Harry's best friend too. I bet he doesn't have a clue on Harry's love life before Harry tells his friends about him kissing Cho. I bet that Hermione was jealous of Cho and thus was spying on her. (She has been researching magical eavesdropping for half an year, surely she can do that efficiently)

As for Hermione's reactions to Cho...she's acting as a friend would -giving advice on how to act around girls to her male friend. Giving the girls point of view to the boys.--Green Eyes (post 1050)

Yes, Hermione is giving Harry advice on how to act around girls, but more importantly, She's telling Harry how girls behave. She's dropping hints to Harry here about her own feelings towards him. That is why she explains it to him with "Maddening Patient air". She wants to make sure she gets to Harry.(She doesn't in the end)

By the way has any one noticed this?:

Cho Chang walked into the hall with her friend Marieta.Harry's stomach gave an unpleasant lurch, but she did not look over at him and sat with her back to him.

'Oh I forgot to ask you,' said Hermione brightly, glancing over at Ravenclaw table,'what happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'--OotP(Ch:26; Page:504 British version, First edition)

Hermione, we all know is an observant person.(Fluffy and the trap door)Surely, she's noticed Cho's less than friendly behaviour towards Harry there. She knows that Harry came early from his date with Cho. She has certainly put 2 and 2 together and concluded that Harry's date with Cho was a disaster. Yet, she asks Harry about his date "brightly". That means She's definately happy that Harry has broken up with Cho.

In fact, it's Hermione who suggests that he should ask her out.--Green Eyes(post 1050)

Actually, Hermione doesn't suggest Harry to ask Cho out.She merely asks if he'll be taking her out. It goes like this:

'Well, I suppose it could have been worse,' she said. 'Are you going to see her again?'

I'll have to,won't I? said Harry. 'We've got DA meetings, haven't we?'

'You know what I mean,' said Hermione impatiently.--OotP British edition(First),Chapter:21, Page:406

As you see, Hermione is not advising Harry here. She's trying to find out if Harry is going to ask Cho out, rather impatiently.

"Next time there's a ball, ask me before any one else does and not as a last resort."--GoF

I think this is the line to which many of you are refering to?

Right, the explaination for this--We don't know what Ron said to Hermione before Harry entered the common room. What if Ron said something personal like "Why did you go with Krum when I asked you?".[This is not mentioned in any canon but is a speculation and might be possible].In that case, Hermione's response indicates that She is irritated with him, instead of being intrested in him which many R/H shippers speculate on reading the sentence.

By the way, will someone explain to me why has Rowling used "business-like," "brisk" and "impatiently" to describe Hermione’s manner. Those descriptors are notused to ascribe an indifferent observer.There's definately more than meets the eye. In addition Hermione is seen to be wearing a "slight frown" while waiting for Harry to confirm that he and Cho had kissed.Someone has posted that people frown when they are thinking hard. What exactly is she thinking in that case? Has she just realized that she likes Harry?

P.S: I guess I've created enough storm for now to get at least five hostile responses.

Edit: Whoa! I can't belive how big this post has got. Maybe I should practise some smaller ones.

Edit2: You know, I'm rather surprised, with so many R/H shippers here, there's not a single essay on the Lexicon supporting R/H ship. There are some on H/H ship and the H/G ship though

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 27, 2004 11:08 pm (#1062 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Total Hatred,

Even though I am a strong Harry/Pansy 'shipper, I think you overstate the case for Pansy concentrating on Hermione. In PoA at the very first breakfast back at Hogwarts after school had begun, she was mocking Harry's encounter with the dementor.

In GoF, she was proudly wearing her "Potter Stinks" badge.

She also lead the Slytherins in "Weasley is our King" in OoP.

Yes, she does seem to take delight in mocking all the girls that get close to Harry, but she also seems to mock the boys and the teachers that befriend him, as well as Harry himself.

She has never liked Harry, nor has Harry liked her. Even though Harry has essentiall been neutral towards her, she has not been towards him. If they are ever to develop tender feelings towards each other, they first have to get back to neutral. This has to be established in book #6.

Now it is possible for them to already be there at the end of OoP, since Rowling makes her disappear from the time of the Quibbler article on. But before that, I just don't see her liking Harry, or being attracted to him at all.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 28, 2004 12:31 am (#1063 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Now, every one has their own interpretations of Christmas presents in OotP don't they, here are mine-- or to say precisely a rather interesting one by certain Calanthe Borrible I found on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Since the publication of Order of the Phoenix, I've seen far too many facile and inexplicably hostile discussions of Hermione--it seems that now the poor girl can't do anything without it being the springboard for a lot of hostile criticism. I wrote this essay in response to something I read on, I think, a friend's friendspage, in response to the, to me, incomprehensible claim that Hermione's Christmas gifts to Ron and Harry in OP somehow show that she is the one who has the 'emotional range of a teaspoon', because they're thoughtless...

Needless to say, I disagree. I think the Christmas gifts are a very interesting element of OP, if a minor one, and Hermione's are the most interesting of the lot. And I think there's a great deal of thought indeed--if most of it subconscious--behind those gifts.

Harry's Christmas gifts in OP are personalised. He's drawn on his knowledge of character and interests to find things he thinks people will like--Arthur Weasley's plugs and fuses, for example. His gift to Hermione is the same. He's obviously been paying enough attention to her interests to either register the name of a book she has said she wants, or be able to work out that New Theory of Numerology is the sort of book she'd be interested in based on other information--and he cares enough to get it.

Ron's present to Hermione is, awkwardly, at one and the same time depersonalising and intrusively personal. It's depersonalising because it reduces Hermione to the status of Generic Girl (Qu: What do you get A Girl for a present? Ans: Flowers, chocolate, perfume). It's intrusively personal because it makes a groundless claim that Ron and Hermione have the sort of relationship in which someone can give another person one of those generic gifts and have to be a real gift. It imposes a kind of pressure to respond to that claim.

Hermione's gifts to Harry and Ron, on the other hand, are mostly impersonal, but not thoughtlessly so. They're impersonal for a reason: whether consciously or otherwise, they sending a message."

What message does it send? Click on the link below and find out.

Christmas Presents

If this theory is correct, we might not see Hermione in any 'ship with Harry or Ron.

Gee, I'm confused.

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tracie1976 - Jun 28, 2004 5:43 am (#1064 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I've read totally different essays about the Christmas gifts in OotP. Unfortunately I can't find them at the moment so I'll just write what I remember.

Hermione's gifts are the same but we all know that Ron doesn't seem that organized and needs help in getting his homework done without having Hermione help him or bug her for her notes. Now the person who wrote the essay I'm trying to remember says the same homework planner for Harry, could be saying "Hey fit some time in for me" lol.

Now as for Ron's perfume, she calls the perfume "unusual" as description she uses for The Quibbler at one point in time. As Tornedo stated, Hermione really wanted that book and Harry has paid enough attention to her to know that. Harry is very observant when it comes to his friends wants.

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Star Crossed - Jun 28, 2004 6:05 am (#1065 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes, but Ron is trying to show her how he feels. What boy gets a friend perfume? No, that's what you get a girlfriend. He's confused about these feelings he has for Hermione, and he's not sure what to do.

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Catherine - Jun 28, 2004 6:53 am (#1066 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
I've always wondered about that perfume. Maybe it's just "unusual" because it's cheap, or because an adolescent boy picked it out, but I always wondered if there could be more to it.

We know that Ron and Harry were trying to buy magical brain boosters from fellow students later in OoP. I wonder if someone sold Ron some "perfume" that was supposed to be a love potion, or somehow change Hermione's personality.

Or maybe unusual perfume is just perfume!

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 28, 2004 7:55 am (#1067 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I figured buying Hermione perfume was Rons way of letting Hermione know that he had noticed that was a girl, unlike the previous year .... the
'Hermione you're a girl....'
'Oh well spotted' argument.

The 'unusual' comment was probably because it was a perfume a teenage boy, who knew nothing about perfume would buy... Or else a perfume his mum would like... an 'older womans' perfume which wouldn't be to Hermiones taste. Or, it could be that she commented on it being 'unusual' as in, an unusual gift to get from Ron, instead of the usual chocolate & sweets.

To give him his dues, Ron is actually trying here.... bless! Perhaps Hermione was embarrassed to get a gift like this from Ron, so she decided not to make a big deal about it... but wanted to let him know that it was appreciated all the same, even if it was a little 'unusual' .. To me the term 'unusual' here indicates that she wasn't too keen on the perfume... It's as though Ron tried to buy a girly gift, but didn't quite get it right.... but he tried... & she was pleased that he did try.

You could argue that Harry took the easy option of buying Hermione the book that she wanted ... Not to take away from Harrys gift... which of course was thoughtful & very much something Hermione would appreciate, but Hermione has loads of books. Ron was trying to be different by buying something that little bit special... not necessarily something she needed, but something that would be nice ... even if he didn't get it quite right. Ron's beginning to come to terms with his feelings & this is another way in which he is trying to get his point across.... even if he's not completely aware of what it is he's trying to say.

I can picture the senario, Ron (complete with red ears & face), asking Ginny for advice on christmas presents.... 'Ginny kind of present would you buy a girl for Christmas?' She would then quiz him on who the pressie is for, but would get no answer, so she would just say exasperatedly 'oh I don't know, perfume or chocolates or something'.... Seeing as he's probably bought the latter before, he would settle on perfume, the 'or something' would be too much of a leap for Ron right now It also could have been a Gred or Forge suggestion, or a Bill or Charlie suggestion To be a fly on the wall when Ron was buying the perfume (probably in Diagon Alley) would have been a funny scene...

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Green Eyes - Jun 28, 2004 7:56 am (#1068 of 2916)

Remember, we are seeing the story from Harry's POV...he hears Hermione thank Ron for the perfume, but Harry doesn't seem to care/register the significance of a personal gift like that. He gives Hermione something he knows she wants - a book. He is being thoughtful as a friend. He gives her a gift that is normal/safe/expected...Ron branches out and goes for personal...

One thing I thought of is that if things are going on between Ron and Hermione - would Harry be privy to them at this point? I think the perfume is a hint that things may be going on behind the scenes with them, just that Harry isn't seeing it obviously yet. I think he is aware that R/H have feelings for one another (GOF fight scene) but I think Harry is in his own world dealing with what he has to deal with and not in tune necessarily to things that are going on with his friends.

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Chris. - Jun 28, 2004 8:03 am (#1069 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I have the feeling that Ron doesn't want Harry to know that he fancys Hermione. When she comments on the perfume about being unusual, Ron quickly changes the subject to the package (Kreacher's present) that Hermione is carrying.

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tracie1976 - Jun 28, 2004 8:12 am (#1070 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I figured Ron changed the subject because she made a big deal out of the gift Harry gave her and he just got "Thanks its really ummm unusual" (not the exact quote) and that embarrassed him or he figured she didn't like it that much and his feelings were hurt.

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Chris. - Jun 28, 2004 8:16 am (#1071 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think she made that big a deal out of Harry's present- the book. She had been wanting it for ages, so she was bound to show some happiness. She may have said a better thanks to Ron on their own, out of Harry's POV.

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tracie1976 - Jun 28, 2004 8:29 am (#1072 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
OotP: p.503 "Thanks for the book Harry !" she said happily. "I've been wanting that New Theory of Numerology for ages! And that perfume is really unusual, Ron ."

I may be way off here but Hermione says her thanks to Harry really excited because of the way JKR wrote it by using the exclamation point. As you can see Ron just got a statement because of the way JKR wrote that sentence ending with a period. Plus it looks like to me, she didn't even say a "thank you" to Ron. She just makes the comment of that is unusual and then Ron says "No problem" and nods then changes the subject.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 28, 2004 9:58 am (#1073 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Yes, Ron and Hermione are both awefully casual about the whole thing, aren't they? Hm....

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Catherine - Jun 28, 2004 10:01 am (#1074 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Well, as Snape said in OoP, Harry is not known for his subtlety. He doesn't read between the lines the way that Hermione does.

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Weeny Owl - Jun 28, 2004 10:45 am (#1075 of 2916)

By the time Christmas came around, Harry was still interested in Cho. It wasn't until after Valentine's Day that they started having problems. It was around Christmas that Harry got his first kiss.

Perfume is something much more romantic than a numerology book, and Hermione, being the caring person she is, realizes that Ron is getting his head out of the sand and trying. It may not have been the perfect gift, but it's the thought that counts.

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Green Eyes - Jun 28, 2004 11:08 am (#1076 of 2916)

Perhaps Hermione says thanks to Harry in an excited manner to emphasize his gift and downplay Ron's, not because she doesn't like Ron's gift, but to tip toe around Harry...not make a big deal about it...maybe they're not sure how he'd react to their more intimate relationship. Based on all his moodiness up to that point perhaps they're afraid he'll get upset. Although like we've said, he recognizes that they have feelings for one another when he witnesses their fight in GOF. Of course, THEY don't realize this.

One other perspective...perhaps Hermione is a little nervous/shy about Ron actually giving her something personal and showing he cares Wink.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 28, 2004 12:11 pm (#1077 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Green Eyes, Tracie, Wheeny, Catherine, Sarah, Aly, Fawks and Prongs, the way you're talking it seems that you want to say that Hermione downplays Ron's gift and emphasizes on Harry's because she doesn't want to notice that Ron had given her a perfume. Possible, but very improbable. If she would've wanted Harry to not know what Ron's gift was, she would've just said "Thanks for the presents" or something like that. But she purposefully mentions Ron's present in front of Harry. I think, here, she's trying to drop some hints to Harry about her feelings. She's trying to remind Harry that she is a girl.

I remember someone(maybe Fawks Forever) saying that Hermione has many books and still Harry gave her that.If there's one thing common between Hermione and myself, it is the love for reading books. I feel that once I've finished reading a book that it becomes worthless and I try to find another book worth reading. I'm sure Hermione feels the same; she'd probably apreciate a present if it is a book even from Snape. I think giving a book, especially one which Hermione wants and has not read(that's saying something!) is an excellent idea.

Now, see the utility of presents, Hermione would love to read the book but wouldn't be keen on it after finishing it. She may never use a perfume, especially an unusual one. There's not much in it, but Harry's present edges out Ron's slightly.

Now, to go a bit off topic, the presents that the trio give each other reflect the ways their characters are developing.

Harry: Gives Ron a broom compass; Hermione a book.

Harry knows what his friends want and want them to be happy.

Ron: Gives Harry something related to Chudley Cannons; Hermione a perfume.

He's still not looking at life seriously but maybe trying to get his friends' mind off other things.

Hermione: Homework Planners to both of them.

This one's quite important, she maybe trying to tell them to forget everything and concentrate on OWLS or she could be telling them that she's not interested in either of them.

Hermione's gifts are the same but we all know that Ron doesn't seem that organized and needs help in getting his homework done without having Hermione help him or bug her for her notes. Now the person who wrote the essay I'm trying to remember says the same homework planner for Harry, could be saying "Hey fit some time in for me" lol.--Tracie

Interesting Point Tracie, I like that one.(I like anything supporting H/Hr right now)

It also could have been a Gred or Forge suggestion, or a Bill or Charlie suggestion.To be a fly on the wall when Ron was buying the perfume (probably in Diagon Alley) would have been a funny scene... --Fawks

Probably Bill's Idea. I can't see F&G sugesting a perfume. They'd suggest a love potion! And for once in my life I'd like to be a fly. Another question, where do they buy their presents? They don't go to Diagon Alley.

Harry doesn't seem to care/register the significance of a personal gift like that.--Green Eyes

I don't think that. Harry really appreciated the Broomstic service kit from Hermione in the third year.

I have the feeling that Ron doesn't want Harry to know that he fancys Hermione.--Prongs

Now Ron has to be quite thick headed to think Harry hasn't got a clue about his feelings hasn't he?

Ron and Hermione are both awefully casual about the whole thing, aren't they? Hm.... --S.E.Jones

So are Harry and Hermione.

Well, as Snape said in OoP, Harry is not known for his subtlety. He doesn't read between the lines the way that Hermione does. --Catherine

Snape also says Harry is as arrogant as his Father was, all criticism bounces off him etc. etc. Do you buy that?

P.S:By the way, has any one even read post number 1061? I wasted half an hour on that and was expecting at least five posts emphasizing that my ideas are out of order. Not one till now. To quote from 'Yes Prime Minister', "The only thing worse than getting a bad name in newspapers is not been mentioned at all" (Not the exact quote, but you get my point).

P.P.S:I think we ought to start a new thread: "Presents in Harry Potter"

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Chris. - Jun 28, 2004 12:17 pm (#1078 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Harry does realise Hermione is a girl. He didn't pick up on the "perfume" thing because there was lots of things on his mind: Mr Weasley's injury, Cho and other things.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 28, 2004 12:21 pm (#1079 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Tornedo, I would be very careful grouping people and their ideas together like that. I, for one, was most certainly not saying that at all. You are making a mass assumption and I greatly resent it.

As for your post being overlooked, I would get used to it here. It happens quite a lot, especially on H/H-R/H discussions.....

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Sir Tornado - Jun 28, 2004 12:45 pm (#1080 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Sorry if any one's offened, I was in one of my depressing moods and badly needed something to cheer me up. It was quite amusing.

By the way, what exactly did you mean then?

Edit: I think we are talking about different parts of my post, Sarah I meant the one at the end before the Post Script. Well, don't mind the start of my posts, most of 'em aren't serious, It's too late to Edit anyway.

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Catherine - Jun 28, 2004 1:08 pm (#1081 of 2916)

Canon Seeker
Thanks, Sarah, and you stated my position as well.

Tornedo, thanks for your apology, and I am not upset with you, but I would like to state to anyone reading your "group" post that I don't think that my position was characterized accurately.

It's pretty troublesome to paint several people with the same brush on the Forum, as we have very different takes on things, even when we basically agree with each other! ;-)

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Weeny Owl - Jun 28, 2004 8:15 pm (#1082 of 2916)

All I was saying was that Harry has much more to think about at Christmastime than Hermione.

The kiss from Cho, Arthur's attack, meeting up with the Longbottoms, thinking at one point he's been possessed by Voldie (Ginny straightened him out on that one), and a multitude of other things that teens go through.

Hermione and Ron, on the other hand, remind me more of Molly and Arthur, and since they both tend to look out for Harry, he seems almost to be their child. They both care about him and are worried about him, but they have a tension that is more indicative of romance.

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spug - Jun 28, 2004 8:23 pm (#1083 of 2916)

Hey, I’m new to the forum, and I thought I’d just post my predictions. I am a proud R/H, H/G, and Neville/Luna shipper. Also, I felt bad for Cho when it didn’t work out with Harry, and for Krum, as it won’t work out with Hermione, and realized they’d be perfect together (Cho and Krum I mean). Cho has already gone out with 2/3 of the male Triwizard champions, and Krum’s famous- Cho seems to like that Smile. What do you think?

P.S. I am totally agreeing with Weeny Owl here

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Julia. - Jun 28, 2004 11:32 pm (#1084 of 2916)

74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
I'm sure you've all seen this, but just in case you haven't I'll post it. I'm in the process of digging through Quick Quotes looking for a JKR quote for a different thread, and I came across this.

Zsenya - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire, Zsenya! (Comic Relief chat, March 2001) [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Sir Tornado - Jun 29, 2004 12:28 am (#1085 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
The kiss from Cho, Arthur's attack, meeting up with the Longbottoms, thinking at one point he's been possessed by Voldie (Ginny straightened him out on that one), and a multitude of other things that teens go through.--Wheeny Owl.

Wheeny, Harry, Ron, Hermione & Ginny meet the Longbottoms after the Christmas Presents episode. I think Ron is more worried about attack on Arthur than Harry is. About his fear of possesed, it is Hermione and Ginny who sort it out, not Ginny alone.

Hermione and Ron, on the other hand, remind me more of Molly and Arthur, and since they both tend to look out for Harry, he seems almost to be their child.--Wheeny Owl.

I should like to say that at any rate, Harry definately seems to be more mature than Ron, may be even than Hermione.

They both care about him and are worried about him.--Wheeny Owl

Of course they care about him, he's their friend. It can also be argued that Harry and Hermione care about Ron and are woried about him.

But they have a tension that is more indicative of romance.--Wheeny Owl

Yes, they may have tension that could be indicative of romance, but the same tension can break the romance.

Zsenya - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend? The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire, Zsenya! (Comic Relief chat, March 2001)--Julia

Well, we already know that Ron really likes Hermione more than a friend, the point is whether Hermione likes Ron in the same way.(I think she doesn't)

Another point why R/Hr ship won't be possible-- because it would all be offpage--rather like Ginny/Michael. According to current format, JKR insists on Harry's POV. There's hardly ten pages in the series which are not shown by Harry's POV. JKR knows that there are many 'shippers out there, and I'd like to ask you all R/Hr shippers, what would you rather like to read? An offpage R/Hr ship or an onpage H/Hr ship?

--J.Henry--

P.S: R&R

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total hatred - Jun 29, 2004 12:41 am (#1086 of 2916)

I agree with Tornedo. Ron is chasing Hermione no doubt about that. The big question is do Hermione has feeling for Ron. The answer is no because she fancies Harry.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 29, 2004 12:42 am (#1087 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Offpage....

You asked what I meant earlier and I think my nerves have settled enough to answer... I was referring more to the fact that both Ron and Hermione were being very casual during the whole exchange at Christmas. There were a few people arguing that Hermione was so casual about Ron's gift because she doesn't have any feelings for Ron and was excited about Harry's because she likes him instead. However, Ron is also casual about the gift and quickly turns the conversation to Harry's present. We know that Ron has feelings for her. You just said so in your last post (Well, we already know that Ron really likes Hermione more than a friend). This is what seems so odd to me. he should be blushing more (Harry always seems to mark the reddening ears for us) or stuttering or something, but isn't. It seems to me that they are both decidedly trying not to discuss the subject in front of Harry. I am far more inclined to agree with Green Eyes that Ron and Hermione (especially Ron, considering the fight in GoF) may be even more reluctant to act on any feelings they might feel toward one another that might, in the end, end up alienating their friend from them even more after he's spent the entire summer on his own and chewed them out for being together all summer and then seems to have somewhat held to that grudge for most of the school year. I would be a little skiddish about it too.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 29, 2004 12:54 am (#1088 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Tornedo, I wasn't slating Harrys choice of present for Hermione.... quite the opposite. Indeed I love getting books myself, as does Hermione. What I was trying to say, sorry if I wasn't clear enough, is that we all know Hermione loves books, & its a pretty safe choice for a present. However, that doesn't make it any less thoughtful, especially due to the fact that Harry actually buys a book that he knows she wants (needs).

This is juxtaposed by Rons choice of present, which is typically a non Hermione style present. By doing this JK (I think) is showing us the differences in the way the two boys view Hermione. One sees her as their friend.... the other is trying to say that he sees her as a little bit more than that, a little bit special.... & so tries to buy her a present that is that little bit more, a little bit special Then again, we never actually know what Hermione (or Ron) buy each other for birthday presents)... perhaps Hermione got Ron a personal gift for his birthday But I digress .....

Interesting point however, if Ron & Hermione do get together during the duration of the series.... it will be interesting to see how JK will handle it. She admits that shes not a romance writer... so we will more than likely have Harry walk in on a 'moment' between the two, later Harry may ask them some questions (much to their embarassment) & find out that they have decided to start dating.... or something like that, I wouldn't expect much more than that, but you never know. Or else she may fill in the blanks in an epilogue.

EDIT : Hey Sarah we posted at the same time... never happened before with you

I agree, Ron & Hermione are being extremely casual.... almost like avoiding the issue. Hermione can't exactly ignore the present, especially after thanking Harry for his, in her head Harry might even know about the pressie, so it would be strange not to mention it. I never noted the absence of the trade mark Weasley red ears..... hmmm, very interesting. It almost reminds me of the post yule ball fight formalities between the two! You could be right....

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total hatred - Jun 29, 2004 2:05 am (#1089 of 2916)

I agree with you Fawkes Forever. The gifts can indicate what that person feels to that person. It already strengthened the fact Ron fancy Mione. Hermione gift to the two is a bit controversial.

Ron needs to get organized but Harry barely needs its. He consistently makes his homework with or without help. There might be a reason why Hermione gave it to him.

One of the posts said it may be Hermione saying that Harry give my some of your time literally translated I need some of your attention. Sorry to all R/Hr shippers

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 29, 2004 4:00 am (#1090 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Or perhaps shes not willing to make the step just yet to give Ron a personalised present, or else didn't actually expect Ron to buy her a personalised present... so she just bought what she would buy for her friend (knowing Hermione she probably bought their gifts months before christmas) ... so she gives him the same as Harry...

It could be argued that she doesn't want to be seen to be making a difference. Seeing as how Harry got so upset at the two of them spending so much time together over the summer... perhaps she is conscious of trying not to exclude Harry. By giving them identical gifts she's more or less saying 'look you are both my friends & I care about you both... but you're both such disorganised people... so heres some homework organisers for the two of you'

Or perhaps she doesn't give a monkeys about either of them romantically & she'll run off into the Bulgarian sunset with Viktor *pause for evil laugh* .... I'm kidding

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coolbeans3131 - Jun 29, 2004 4:48 am (#1091 of 2916)

Or maybe she has feelings for Harry and knows Ron has feelings for her, and knows that a lot of damage could be done to the trio's friendship over this, and so she's trying to tread very carefully. She knows there's a lot more at stake than her love life or a date to the prom. Harry's biggest strength is his friendship with Hermione and Ron. He wouldn't have gotten this far without them. They are a team, and she knows that keeping the team intact is the most important thing. Romance will just have to wait until Voldemort has been destroyed.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 29, 2004 5:10 am (#1092 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Fawks, maybe she doesn't want to give them any personalized gifts. The reason may be different for both of them.

1)She gives Ron a diary to tell him she's not interested in him.

2) She can't give anything to Harry that shows him that she likes him because his affair with Cho is still going on.

Now, all ye R/Hr shippers tell me something, Ron gives enough clues to Harry and Hermione that he likes her. If Hermione is interested in Ron, why doesn't she tell him? I can't see Hermione waiting for Ron to tell her, that's so unHermione-ish, that's quite far away from the bossy girl we know. Had she liked Ron, she'd have come up with some way to get them together and tell it to Harry without shocking him. After all she's figured out worse things before.

--J.H--

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 29, 2004 5:52 am (#1093 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Good points guys, all quite valid, I also think Hermione doesn't want to upset the balance, however I'm still on the stance that she likes Ron... sorry can't help it.. thats just how I see the story going

"If Hermione is interested in Ron, why doesn't she tell him? I can't see Hermione waiting for Ron to tell her, that's so unHermione-ish, that's quite far away from the bossy girl we know" - Tornado

Hmm, I must admit, this was something that struck me before, its an excellent point, however when looking deeper into Hermiones character I think we may find an answer to why she won't make the first move.

Hermione may come across as being super confident & bossy, however this is a bit of a front as deep down she's quite insecure. In GoF, I think both herself & Ron are trying to come to terms with their feelings.. I don't even think Ron is completely aware that he likes Hermione in 'that way', & the 'mature' response they take is never to mention it again. By OotP they are maturing somewhat & I think it'll only be a matter of time before they both figure it out.

In OotP Ron is becoming more subtle in his signs, indeed does he make any other gestures such as the Christmas present? Sure he picks up on the letters to Viktor, but I can see Hermione justifying that to herself that its because he's jealous of Viktor because he's world famous & so on & he [Ron] doesn't feel that way about her, & any signs that point to that are her wishful thinking or her imagination. Or else she doesn't want to get her hopes up in case she is wrong. We also have the bickering & sniping at one another so much so that Harry has to intervene. Again I can imagine Hermione thinking, 'nope he can't like me that way because he's always fighting with me'.

As I've said previously, she's insecure (even JK notes this on her website), so with that in mind I can't see her taking the leap & asking Ron out.... 'what if he said no'... 'what if I got it all wrong'? There we have the fear of failure again (remember her Boggart in PoA). Her low self esteem would also indicate that she has a hard time thinking that he (or anyone) could possibly think of her in that light. Thats probably why she was so annoyed about being asked as a 'last resort', & why she was so flattered by Viktors attention.

She did give Ron a little nudge right before the first Quidditch match but for most of OotP, their gestures have been extremely subtle, which would lead to the confusion... 'does he like me or not'? I do think she's waiting for Ron to make a move.... but hey... we will see

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tracie1976 - Jun 29, 2004 6:02 am (#1094 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Quote: Fawkes Forever: She did give Ron a little nudge right before the first Quidditch match...

If you mean the kiss on the cheek, I assumed Hermione knows about Ron's crush and uses it as an advantage to distract Ron from the badges that the Slytherins are wearing. Of course it works, because Ron places his hand on his cheek and does not notice what the badges say as Harry leads him to the Quidditch pitch.

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coolbeans3131 - Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am (#1095 of 2916)

"She did give Ron a little nudge right before the first Quidditch match but for most of OotP, their gestures have been extremely subtle, which would lead to the confusion... 'does he like me or not'? I do think she's waiting for Ron to make a move.... but hey... we will see."

See, I don't see this a little nude. Hermione knows how Ron feels (how could she not). This is one instance in which she uses those feelings, not in a bad way. She desperately wants him to leave the hall without noticing those badges, and decides the best way is to distract Ron. That's the only reason she did it. She's had hundreds of other opportunities to kiss him or make some kind of move like that. She's trying to save Ron more humiliation, and so decides that in this instance it's ok to use his feelings for her in this way. She knows he'll be so distracted, he'll walk right by those Syltherins without noticing a thing. This wouldn't work with anyone else.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 29, 2004 6:59 am (#1096 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
I do think that we all agree that Hermione is aware of Rons feelings on some level, but I feel that it's her insecurities that are keeping her from completely believing her intuitions. (emmm, does that make sense? )

However, if Hermione doesn't fancy Ron, & knows that he does fancy her... don't you think its a little cruel of her exploit his feelings in this way? Merely as a way of distracting him? It is possible, but I don't think that it would be a very Hermione thing to do. Would she really be capable of leading her friend on in this way? If she really didn't fancy him, to encourage him like this would be cruel & would only be asking for trouble later on... Would she really want to toy with his feelings, knowing that she couldn't return the sentiment? I don't think that she would risk her friendship... I don't think she would ever intentionally hurt Ron (or Harry), especially with all that is happening in the Wizarding World with the return of 'ol Voldy. She would see that they need to stick together....

I do agree in that it was a very good way of distracting Ron however, & again indicates that she does have some notion of his feelings for her. I must admit, it was fairly brave of her to do this in front of the entire student body during breakfast .... that's a huge step for Hermione (or for most people)... perhaps it was this moment that spurred Ron on to buy her a nice 'girly' christmas present. I know... Hermione did this to try & get a decent christmas pressie (hee hee, yeap I'm joking... sorry couldn't resist) That said, I don't think Hermione even thought her actions through... it was an impulsive thing.... something Hermione doesn't do very often... act on impulse... unless shes worked herself up into a rage or her emotions are over ruling her brain

I must say I'm enjoying the banter here.... it's certainly distracting me from my work

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Green Eyes - Jun 29, 2004 7:07 am (#1097 of 2916)

I agree with Fawkes Forever...Hermione knows that Ron likes her but for all of her "smarts" she is still a 15 year old girl who may be a bit insecure and thrown off balance by his gift and a little nervous about it's implications. She's probably a bit surprised too...seeing as she thinks he has the emotional range of a teaspoon:).

I also think that at this stage (OOTP), they would try to hide anything going on between them from Harry based on his reaction at the beginning of the book from being left out of things, then the whole prefect episode, riding on the train separately. I mean they really don't want to do anything to upset him. I think eventually he will know if something is going on between them and we will see it too.

Even JKR is saying this is happening and I can't for the life of me understand why some people think it has to be a big secret - who might like whom - it's a subplot. The big secret lies in Harry's parental history and how he is going to defeat Voldemort.

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Weeny Owl - Jun 29, 2004 11:21 am (#1098 of 2916)

Harry didn't calm down at Christmas until Ginny straightened him out about being or not being possessed by Voldie. He basically ignored what Hermione was saying.

Hermione and Ron sound like a married couple. Hermione is as caring, warm, loving, and bossy as Molly, while Ron tends to resemble his father a great deal. They seem perfect for each other.

Ginny and Harry have a bond that he has with no one else. She can understand him in a way no other person can. They're ideal for each other.

(By the way, it's Weeny and not Wheeny.)

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Sir Tornado - Jun 29, 2004 12:22 pm (#1099 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Even JKR is saying this is happening and I can't for the life of me understand why some people think it has to be a big secret - who might like whom - it's a subplot.--Green Eyes

Yeah, it is a sub-plot, but It might be important later on. By the way we've had 1099 posts on this topic, it certainly seems to be a big secret to a lot many people.

Back to the point, I think it was a superb idea on Hermione's part to give Ron a kiss like that and distract him; a bit cruel, may be, but that's a matter of interpretations, some might argue that it would have been more cruel and humiliating for Ron to see the badges and hear Slytherin taunts even before his first match. Hermione does do things that seem cruel to her friends but she doesn't mean to hurt them.(She had Harry's Firebolt confiscated because she thought it to be dangerous. Doesn't that seem to be cruel on Harry?). About that impulse thing -- I might have misunderstood it completely -- but wouldn't that kiss Hermione gives Harry as impulsive too?(Let's not talk about Harry's and Ron's reactions now shall we?) I think if you're trying to guess Hermione's feelings, those two Kisses cancel each other out. (I may think that due to overdose of Mathematics I've been having these days) By the way, it could be for good luck you know, that's what I thought when I read it for first time, but now, I think it was for distracting him

I also think that at this stage (OOTP), they would try to hide anything going on between them from Harry based on his reaction at the beginning of the book from being left out of things, then the whole prefect episode, riding on the train separately. I mean they really don't want to do anything to upset him. --Green Eyes.

It's like someone pointed out earlier on this thread, Harry wouldn't be as furious when he realizes that his friends like each other than he would be if he comes to know that his friends have hidden something from him an entire year. He would consider that as betrayal. Hermione would know this. She wouldn't hide something like this from Harry for so long

Harry didn't calm down at Christmas until Ginny straightened him out about being or not being possessed by Voldie. He basically ignored what Hermione was saying.--Weeny Owl

Yeah? But Ginny couldn't get him to talk about it, it was Hermione who did.

P.S: Weeny, sorry for misspelling you, I know exactly how one feels when one does that, people do that with my name all the time!

--J.H.--

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Green Eyes - Jun 29, 2004 12:55 pm (#1100 of 2916)

Hermione was not present at the hospital when Harry overheard the conversation about him being possibly possessed. She was someone who he didn't think thought badly of him as a result of that conversation. If she had been there, he might have ignored her too!

You're right Tornedo, Harry would be furious if he didn't know something was going on between them - that they had been hiding it - the argument has been made that he really does know about it from the episode in GOF. But timing on "coming out" with their relationship could be affected by his attitude at the beginning of OOTP.

As for the kisses to both Ron and Harry...I read those as a way to make them feel better (Harry) or to distract (Ron).

As for my not being able to understand why it has to be a big secret...JKR has pretty much said it through movie moment and interviews/chats. She can't even believe we haven't figured it out yet! Therefore, it must be something that she doesn't care is obvious.

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tracie1976 - Jun 29, 2004 12:59 pm (#1101 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
quote: Green Eyes: Hermione was not present at the hospital when Harry overheard the conversation about him being possibly possessed. She was someone who he didn't think thought badly of him as a result of that conversation. If she had been there, he might have ignored her too!

True, Hermione was not at the hospital when they all heard this but it was Hermione who got Harry out of the room with Buckbeak to actually get him to talk. Harry said along the lines of he didn't want to talk to anyone and who comes knocking on the door? Hermione. If Hermione didn't arrive, IMO, he would have been up in that room for the rest of the visit ignoring all the Weasleys and Sirius and who ever else had stopped by.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 29, 2004 1:13 pm (#1102 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
As for my not being able to understand why it has to be a big secret...JKR has pretty much said it through movie moment and interviews/chats. She can't even believe we haven't figured it out yet! Therefore, it must be something that she doesn't care is obvious.--Green Eyes.

JKR has never said any thing directly and lets just keep movie clues out of this shall we? In fact, for every clue to a R/Hr ship there is another way of interpretation which points to a H/Hr ship.

--J.H--

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Star Crossed - Jun 29, 2004 2:47 pm (#1103 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, JKR has a lot of control over the movies, and if they were pointing to the wrong ship, I think she would say something.

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 29, 2004 2:48 pm (#1104 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
In fact, for every clue to a R/Hr ship there is another way of interpretation which points to a H/Hr ship.

Oh, I don't know about that. I have wanted a H/Hr ship since the very first book. I believe that Harry and Hermione is by far the best match for all parties concerned. However, it is becoming increasingly obvious that Rowling has Hermione intended for Ron.

I would never have settled on Harry/Pansy if I thought otherwise. In fact, I would give up H/P in a heartbeat if I thought Rowling was going to give H/Hr a chance.

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Green Eyes - Jun 29, 2004 3:00 pm (#1105 of 2916)

Harry coming out for Hermione at Grimmauld place is because he is not ashamed in front of her because of what was said at the hospital. He also thought she was skiing with her parents and thus she surprised him by showing up.

Look, when Rowling doesn't want to reveal info, she doesn't answer a question. When asked about H/Hr or R/Hr, she has stated before that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends, that there is more tension between Ron and Hermione, that Harry won't be snogging Hermione, but she won't speak for anyone else...these are paraphrased quotes but we've all read/heard them. If she wanted to throw us off that scent, she wouldn't have said those things. Couple that with the fact that-she can't understand how we haven't worked it out yet- indicates that it must be fairly obvious. Then there's the movie evidence which if it wasn't going to happen wouldn't be included.

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Star Crossed - Jun 29, 2004 3:04 pm (#1106 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Green Eyes, I bow at your feet. You've said everything I ever wanted to, but couldn't manage. You are absolutely brilliant.

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timrew - Jun 29, 2004 4:39 pm (#1107 of 2916)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
By the time Book 7 comes along, Harry et al will be 17 going on 18.

Although that may seem very old to some of the people on this Forum, it sure as hell seems young to me!

I think JKR may hint at a romance between some of the characters; but wedding bells? Naaah!

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 29, 2004 6:37 pm (#1108 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jun 29, 2004 6:37 pm
Tim - I think JKR may hint at a romance between some of the characters; but wedding bells? Naaah!

Let's hope you are right. I suspect it will be handled in some sort of epilogue.

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S.E. Jones - Jun 29, 2004 6:41 pm (#1109 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Tim: I think JKR may hint at a romance between some of the characters; but wedding bells? Naaah!

Hm... So, then we'll never get to see a wizard wedding? *sigh* And I was sooo hoping Bill and Fleur would get married so we could see how it's done....

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Green Eyes - Jun 29, 2004 7:29 pm (#1110 of 2916)

Didn't I read somewhere that James and Lily got married right out of school? So at approximately 18 years old (maybe it was the timelines I've seen here?) They are said to have graduated in 1978 and Harry was born in 1980, they died in 1981, Halloween. So they married young and had a child very young...either way, we will probably see people together in an epilogue.

Star Crossed, thank you for your kudos! I really enjoy everyone here! It's a challenge to argue with some of you!

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Weeny Owl - Jun 29, 2004 8:09 pm (#1111 of 2916)

Look, when Rowling doesn't want to reveal info, she doesn't answer a question. When asked about H/Hr or R/Hr, she has stated before that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends, that there is more tension between Ron and Hermione, that Harry won't be snogging Hermione, but she won't speak for anyone else...these are paraphrased quotes but we've all read/heard them. If she wanted to throw us off that scent, she wouldn't have said those things. Couple that with the fact that-she can't understand how we haven't worked it out yet- indicates that it must be fairly obvious. Then there's the movie evidence which if it wasn't going to happen wouldn't be included.

I agree completely with that!

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Prefect Marcus - Jun 29, 2004 8:31 pm (#1112 of 2916)

"Anyone can cook"
It would be fun to see a wizard wedding. However, since it veers close to religion, I suspect Rowling would more likely show us a wizard wedding reception.

Bill Weasley and Fleur are certainly a possibility. Howabout Percy and Penelope?

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S.E. Jones - Jun 29, 2004 8:41 pm (#1113 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Possibly. We definately wouldn't see anything until Book 7 if it was Percy and Penny since Percy would have to make up with his parents first (unless he intends to bridge the gap by inviting them to his wedding).....

Tonks? Charlie? Lupin? What other adult characters do we know? Bill's the only one I can think of, besides Percy, that is currently in a relationship....

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total hatred - Jun 30, 2004 12:55 am (#1114 of 2916)

Percy getting married. Give me a break. He far too dedicated to his work. I wonder why he is so dedicated to his work. Hmmmm

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tracie1976 - Jun 30, 2004 5:18 am (#1115 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
When asked about H/Hr or R/Hr, she has stated before that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends...

Oh there goes that quote about platonic friends again. So I go to the [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] to look up platonic. 1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of Plato or his philosophy: Platonic dialogues; Platonic ontology 2. often platonic Transcending physical desire and tending toward the purely spiritual or ideal: platonic love. 3.often platonic Speculative or theoretical

Now if we look a little bit of the word history: Plato did not invent the term or the concept that bears his name, but he did see sexual desire as the germ for higher loves. Marsilio Ficino, a Renaissance follower of Plato, used the terms amor socraticus and amor platonicus interchangeably for a love between two humans that was preparatory for the love of God. From Ficino's usage, Platonic (already present in English as an adjective to describe what related to Plato and first recorded in 1533) came to be used for a spiritual love between persons of opposite sexes. In our own century Platonic has been used of relationships between members of the same sex. Though the concept is an elevated one, the term has perhaps more often been applied in ways that led Samuel Richardson to have one of his characters in Pamela say, “I am convinced, and always was, that Platonic love is Platonic nonsense.”

Anyways we all know how JKR loves to play on words and stuff like that.

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Star Crossed - Jun 30, 2004 6:19 am (#1116 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So, basically, tracie, you're saying JKR is trying to lead us to H/Hr with playing on words when she said it's obvious who's going to end up with who, and that Harry and Hermione will never snog, and the movie clues, etc. etc.?

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tracie1976 - Jun 30, 2004 6:33 am (#1117 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Ummmmm Star you just confused the heck out of me. As I gave the deffinition of platonic, which can lead us to either Plato's theories or one of the other definitions. Which does JKR mean? We don't know. JKR has used legends and mythology in symbolism in her books IE: hippogriff=love. She seems to do a lot of research in that field IMO. This symbolism are clues. I mean how many people without actually doing research would know what the myths and legends were about? She wants you to think and figure it out. Just because its "obvious" doesn't mean it has the clues and hints to support it. H/Hr has those clues to support it.

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Fawkes Forever - Jun 30, 2004 6:37 am (#1118 of 2916)

Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Percy getting married... hee hee... now that would be funny.... sounds like a fanfic waiting to be written....

A wedding ceremony wouldn't necesarily mean a religious ceremony... in fact most people these days opt for 'cival' ceremony... perhaps theres a room in the Ministry, a bit like a registry office I can picture it now... Molly blubbing into a hanky.... & Fred & George no doubt would invent some wizard version of confetti for the occasion.... *drifts off into imagination*

Dictionary.com also states that Platonic is "Pure, passionless; nonsexual; philosophical".

Also "platonic love is a pure, spiritual affection, subsisting between persons of opposite sex, unmixed with carnal desires, and regarding the mind only and its excellences. Free from physical desire". (websters)

But hey, its just semantics

It's fun how we can all read the same books & get different meanings out of the text... thats what I love about the Lexicon... in a purely platonic way of course

Sorry... now I'm just being naughty....

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Star Crossed - Jun 30, 2004 6:38 am (#1119 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I suppose it rather depends what side of the broom you're on. If you believe R/Hr, you'll see R/Hr clues. If you believe H/Hr, you'll see H/Hr clues. Personally, I don't see any H/Hr clues. While R/Hr is always in my face. While there is very few H/Hr clues (That really don't even seem like clues to me) far and in between, there are loads of clues in the books about R/Hr. Personally, I just feel that no matter how many times we argue, we'll never convince the other.

But that doesn't make it any less fun. Very Happy
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total hatred - Jun 30, 2004 6:58 am (#1120 of 2916)

Based on my Webster encyclopedic Dictionary, platonic love is a close relationship between two person which sexual desire is non existent or has been supressed or sublimated.

The other meaning is love conceived by Plato as ascending from passion for the individual to contemplation of the universal and ideas

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Green Eyes - Jun 30, 2004 8:04 am (#1121 of 2916)

Platonic love is love between friends...non-sexual love. It isn't interpreted as sexual in nature. Why is it a problem for Harry and Hermione to be friends? He needs a friends like her and Ron!

Plato himself was a homosexual. How this affects the shipping discussion I'm not sure Wink...

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Sir Tornado - Jun 30, 2004 11:45 am (#1122 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Well, I remember someone saying that Hermione couldn't or rather wouldn't lead Ron into beliving she leads him, not that I belive it, but here's something interesting, because she does lead Krum into beliving she likes him, whether intentionaly or not, I dunno. Now think about it, Hermione does all her homework on time, she's at the top of most of her classes, favourite of most of her teachers, Prefect, possibly a Headgirl, doesn't break rules, Brave, Intelligent, her judgement is always right, I could go on with this list all night; I mean she's almost a super-student. Now, like Ron says, we know Hermione's good, but really, no-one's that good; She has to have some drawback apart from not being on Quidditch team, she simply has to!

And then, think about it, till now, she's been fancied by only two boys, Krum and Ron. She might like being liked and, er... may be, subconciously, lead that boy into beliving that She likes him. That would explain why many R/Hr shippers think Hermione likes Ron.

I think I got the message to you all?

Hermione fans: I'm sorry if I er, offended Hermione in someway.

--J.H--

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Chris. - Jun 30, 2004 11:50 am (#1123 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think she led Krum into believing she liked him. Hermione isn't that sort of person. Although she has her secrets (the time turner), she wouldn't lead someone on, knowing that the results are disastrous. I think she genuinely like Krum.

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tracie1976 - Jun 30, 2004 12:26 pm (#1124 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I think she might have led Krum on. She saw Krum as Krum and not the famous Quidditch player like the other girls who were following him around. She probably talked to him about things that didn't result in "Oh may I have your autograph?" sort of thing. He probably saw that as a friendship and hoped for something more and invited her to Bulgaria for the summer. Now we don't know if she did go to visit Krum but we do know that she is still writing to him. She may think of him as a friend and Krum may see her as a potential girlfriend. She probably just hasn't said so.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 30, 2004 12:44 pm (#1125 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
That's right, and she doesn't say anything to Ron as well. Think she's unintentionally "toying with both the boys' feelings"?

Again, my apologies to Hermione and her fans if I've offended her
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Star Crossed - Jun 30, 2004 12:47 pm (#1126 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think she led Krum on. He might have wanted more, but she never pretended she did. She just seemed to have a friendship with him. And as for leading Ron on, why would she do that? To ruin their friendship?

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tracie1976 - Jun 30, 2004 1:03 pm (#1127 of 2916)

"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I still think she led Ron on at the spur of the moment thing and wasn't thinking about the effects of it in the future. Hermione saw a chance to distract Ron and use it to the advantage of Ron not seeing the badges.

Just a little off topic here but she does the same thing in the PoA movie. She howls to get the werewolf away from Harry, the werewolf starts going after her and Harry. Harry asks what now? She says " I didn't think about that." or something like that. All she was thinking was to save Harry from the werewolf by any means possible which in turn made the werewolf come after both of them.

So in other words, the same thing could happen with the leading Ron on without thinking about it. He could bring that up the next time they argue or if she does get with some other person.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 30, 2004 1:15 pm (#1128 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Why would She lead Ron on?

Star Crossed, I have repeatedly said she's done it unintentionally

I don't think she led Krum on. He might have wanted more, but she never pretended she did. --Star Crossed

Aly, It doesn't matter if she did or didn't pretend she wanted more. The fact is that Hermione knows that Victor wanted more, and she could have just clarified her position. But she did not, and this (to me) is as good as leading Krum on.

Once again, my apologies to Hermione and her fans if I've offended her.

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Star Crossed - Jun 30, 2004 1:22 pm (#1129 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
How do you know? You have to remember that all the books are in Harry's pov, so he does not know if Hermione told Krum that she just wanted to be friends.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 30, 2004 1:28 pm (#1130 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Well, it's just that, when Victor tells Hermione that he never "felt like this about any other girl" and invites her to Bulgaria she never answered his questioned with a negetive but evades the question. And what does she write to Victor that she doesn't want Ron to see?

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Star Crossed - Jun 30, 2004 1:32 pm (#1131 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
She had other things on her mind. She could have answered Viktor later. I don't think Hermione wants Ron to know she writes to Viktor at all.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 30, 2004 1:48 pm (#1132 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Yeah, but she had already told Harry and Ron before that Victor was her "Pen-Pal"

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Chris. - Jun 30, 2004 2:05 pm (#1133 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
When did she?

Ron asked who she was sending the long letter to, and she replied Viktor. She didn't intend to tell Ron but when the situation came to tell him, she never lied. She told Ron honestly who her the recipient of the letter would be - Viktor.

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Sir Tornado - Jun 30, 2004 2:43 pm (#1134 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
No, she did tell them before, I don't have the book right now, but it was in Library, after Hermione asked Harry to start DA. I don't remember her quote, but I distinctly remember Ron saying this, "What? He you aren't still in contact with him are you?". "What if I am, I can have a Pen-pal if I like." said Hermione."He wanted to be more than just your Pen-Pal" said Ron gogling at her. Not exact, but thereabouts anyway.

--J.H--

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Star Crossed - Jun 30, 2004 2:46 pm (#1135 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jun 30, 2004 2:46 pm
I'm confused, Tornedo. I thought Ron and Harry found out about her being pen pals with GoF, but DA was in OP.

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Chris. - Jun 30, 2004 6:26 pm (#1136 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Ron's wand is made of willow, right? Willow people (i.e. those born in March) are beautiful but full of melancholy, are attractive and very empathic, they like anything beautiful and tasteful and love to travel, they are dreamers and restless, capricious and honest, they are easily influenced but are not easy to live with being demanding, they have good intuition, but suffer in love and sometimes need to find an anchoring partner.

I think that anchoring partner could be Hermine.

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haymoni - Jun 30, 2004 6:39 pm (#1137 of 2916)

I see nothing wrong with Hermione at age 14 giving an "older man" vague answers.

I still think Krum recognized her from the Top Box and was glad to see a familiar face at Hogwarts. He obviously saw from all her work in the library that Hermione was not some goofy groupie. She was exactly what he needed - he was far from home and he needed someone grounded.

I doubt they talked much in GOF - he probably asked her to the Ball the first time he spoke to her and possibly never spoke to her again until the Ball itself. I'm guessing Hermione was astonished in the Second Task when she found out that she was the thing Krum couldn't do without and was probably embarrassed about it, especially after the row with Ron.

I think her Pen Pal relationship with Krum will be more important in HBP - they'll need to know what is going on in the rest of the world and Krum's Quidditch matches will enable him to travel and find out.
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Czarina II - Jun 30, 2004 10:28 pm (#1138 of 2916)

We might very well be able to put some of this endless H/Hr vs. R/Hr debate to rest when HbP comes out. JKR said previously in the World Book Day chat that there would be some romance in the next two books. Maybe Ron will finally ask Hermione out on a date? Or vice versa, of course, knowing Hermione. She could also ask Harry... At any rate, we would at least know which boy Hermione likes! I think that Hermione and Ron will at least go on a Valentine's date to Hogsmeade that we'll hear about.

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Kieran Burke - Jul 1, 2004 3:10 am (#1139 of 2916)

I think JKR actually confirmed that Sinistra is a man, so its very doubtful they have anything going on.

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Ladybug220 - Jul 1, 2004 5:34 am (#1140 of 2916)

...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Hmmm....I thought that it had been confirmed that Sinistra was a female. She dances with Moody at the Yule Ball.

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 5:48 am (#1141 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Same with me, Ladybug, I thought Sinistra was a female. If she wasn't, that would sort of destroy my Sinistra/Snape theory. Besides, I read somewhere that Sinistra's original first name was Auriga, which points to female.

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Dumbledore - Jul 1, 2004 11:18 am (#1142 of 2916)

(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I always thought that that Sinistra was female, surely there must be evidence either in the books or in a chat with JKR? If Sinistra's first name is, in fact, Auriga, that I think it interesting that she teaches astronomy and her first name is the name of a constellation!

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Sir Tornado - Jul 1, 2004 12:35 pm (#1143 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I'm confused, Tornedo. I thought Ron and Harry found out about her being pen pals with GoF, but DA was in OP.--Star Crossed.

Aly, read the chapter: In Hogs Head (only the first two pages of it) of OotP.

Ron's wand is made of willow, right? Willow people (i.e. those born in March) are beautiful but full of melancholy, are attractive and very empathic, they like anything beautiful and tasteful and love to travel, they are dreamers and restless, capricious and honest, they are easily influenced but are not easy to live with being demanding, they have good intuition, but suffer in love and sometimes need to find an anchoring partner.--Prongs.

I don't think that's concrete. One of my Friends was born on March Fourth and he is as different from Ron as anyone can be.(By the way, that's nice new Avater Prongs.)

I don't think JKR would give anything away on main 'ships untill the seventh book. JKR loves to see us biting each others heads off on this topic.(So do I)

Snape/Sinistra? Where do you guys get such Ideas?

--J.H--

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 1:22 pm (#1144 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Aly, read the chapter: In Hogs Head (only the first two pages of it) of OotP.

Can't. My books are on loan right now. *twitch*

Snape/Sinistra? Where do you guys get such Ideas?

There's actually a lot of evidence. I can't think of any but I found it in a fanfic. They actually point to canon evidence with names. I'll have to re-read the fic and get back to you.

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S.E. Jones - Jul 1, 2004 1:28 pm (#1145 of 2916)

Let it snow!
We once had a thread on Sinistra/Snape that sited the evidence. Unfortunately, I think it's been munched. Anyone save it, by any chance?

The only think I can remember off the top of my head from the thread is that Sinistra is a star in the right hand side (how ironic!) of the constellation Draco.

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 1:29 pm (#1146 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I never even SAW it! I thought I was alone on this forum in that belief. Unless I'm the one who started it. o.0

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S.E. Jones - Jul 1, 2004 1:33 pm (#1147 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Star Crossed: I thought I was alone on this forum in that belief. Unless I'm the one who started it.

lol

You don't know how often that actually happens!

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Sir Tornado - Jul 1, 2004 1:36 pm (#1148 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Yeah, but still, never any Canon evidence, they're never even mentioned together in a single sentence, not even during yule ball.

Fanfic? I've read one about Draco and Molly.

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S.E. Jones - Jul 1, 2004 1:38 pm (#1149 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Actually, the thread was about canon evidence only....

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 1:41 pm (#1150 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
They're together a lot actually. They almost always sit next to each other in the Great Hall. I found that in the fanfic, went back to the books, and found it's true.

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Sir Tornado - Jul 1, 2004 1:49 pm (#1151 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
But they never talk to each other. As for sitting arrangement, it's permanent, so, that they always sit near doesn't count. If it counts, then it's worth noticing that Albus and Minerva sit next to each other as well. Dumbledore/McGonagall? Not really.

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 1:56 pm (#1152 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Dumbledore and McGonagall only sit next to each other because she's Deputy and he's Headmaster. That's a matter of status. And I don't think the seating is permanent. For them never talking, well, in Harry's PoV, we don't see much. Maybe this will be the wizard wedding we want to see!

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Sir Tornado - Jul 1, 2004 2:06 pm (#1153 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
I think the wizard wedding wedding we'd see will be the Potters' wedding; Harry will see it in the Pensive.

Dumbledore and McGonagall only sit next to each other because she's Deputy and he's Headmaster.--Star Crossed

Yes, they sit next to each other because of their positions; same true for Snape/Sinstra. The staff do have fixed places on the table. We have been told when Hagrid's seat was empty.

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 2:10 pm (#1154 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Really? Hm. Don't remember that. I need to get my books back.

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S.E. Jones - Jul 1, 2004 2:11 pm (#1155 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Hagrid probably sits at the end of the table because his size would make it uncomfortable for him to sit along the table. That doesn't mean they have 'fixed' positions....

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Sir Tornado - Jul 1, 2004 2:28 pm (#1156 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
Yes, but then, Hagrid would be able to sit on one of the two ends of the table. By the way JKR mentions his position, and Harry's reaction to his absence, he seems to sit on one end ; but really, I think I I'd better shut up now this hasn't got anything to do with any 'ship. so...

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 2:33 pm (#1157 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, Hagrid is sort of hard not to miss, so he could skim the table, and see Hagrid wasn't there.

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Czarina II - Jul 1, 2004 3:05 pm (#1158 of 2916)

While the staff probably does have a fixed seating arrangement, it is probably due to habit and not to rigid rules. Hagrid probably only ever sits on one side of the table. I pretty well always sat in a certain place at the supper table and even when the table moved, I made sure to sit at the same place. Sitting in a different chair facing a different direction was odd. It is probably the same with the professors. And isn't Dumbledore always in the centre because he is Headmaster?

Obviously, this means that Snape and Sinistra can tolerate sitting beside each other. Do Heads of Houses have sit facing their House table? Perhaps Snape always has to sit in front of Slytherin and Sinistra, as a Slytherin alumni, sits there too.

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Sir Tornado - Jul 1, 2004 3:18 pm (#1159 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
So, anymore clues towards S/S ship?

I always thought people paired Snape and Sinistra out of pure desperation; just because they want to have a 'ship for Snape. If you ask me, Snape doesn't deserve to be paired with anyone.

What do we know about Sinistra? She's the Astronomy teacher. Anything else? Nothing. Incidently, Astronomy is the only one class never to be described, and Sinistra, bless her is just another name in the story , somewhat like guys like Anthony Goldstein, Terry Boot, Patricia Simpson etc. I don't think she'll have a single dialogue in the series, hard to pair such a character.

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 3:38 pm (#1160 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's what I find so amazing about her. That we don't know anything about her. Why not just get rid of the class? I think she's going to be a big part in the next two books. And as for just pairing Snape up, before I found out about the theory, I never paired him with anyone. Another thing I found really interesting is Sinistra is based on the word sinister, and Snape is always described as being sinister. So, I looked up the word sinister:

sin•is•ter adj. 1. Suggesting or threatening evil: a sinister smile. 2. Presaging trouble; ominous: sinister storm clouds. 3. Attended by or causing disaster or inauspicious circumstances. 4. On the left side; left. 5. Heraldry. Situated on or being the side of a shield on the wearer's left and the observer's right.

Does that not sound like Snape, especially what I underlined?

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Green Eyes - Jul 1, 2004 4:46 pm (#1161 of 2916)

But, Star Crossed do we think Snape is a bad guy? I've said from book 1/movie 1 that Snape is going to be a hero, maybe not in the traditional "we all love him" sense but a hero none the less.

I do agree that he will not be paired with anyone because I think in the end he'll be dead Sad .

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spug - Jul 1, 2004 5:53 pm (#1162 of 2916)

"But, Star Crossed do we think Snape is a bad guy?" I'm not Star Crossed but, IMO Snape isn't a "bad guy" as in a loyal-to-Voldemort DE, but you have to admitt- he is evil. Wink

"I do agree that he will not be paired with anyone because I think in the end he'll be dead Sad ." Oo I hope not! Snape's one of my favorite characters (don't ask why, lol)and I hope he plays a bigger role in the 6th book...

As for the S/S 'ship, I personally see no hints to it in the books. Prof. Sinistra has had no real purpose in the story, so I don't think she should be paired up with anyone (yet).

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Star Crossed - Jul 1, 2004 7:05 pm (#1163 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"But, Star Crossed do we think Snape is a bad guy?" I'm not Star Crossed but, IMO Snape isn't a "bad guy" as in a loyal-to-Voldemort DE, but you have to admitt- he is evil. Wink

Thanks, SPUG!

Actually, JKR told us not to trust Snape yet or something.

Suggesting or threatening evil

We are led to believe Snape is evil, could the same be for Sinistra?

Maybe they aren't ship worthy yet, but there are a few similiarities.

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spug - Jul 1, 2004 8:40 pm (#1164 of 2916)

Star Crossed: yeah Smile JKR said in a couple of interview to "keep their eye on Snape...because there's more to him than meets the eye"

Also, I found a quote from JKR supporting a Snape 'ship (or that Snape-was-in-love-with-Lily theory):

Lydon: Er - one of our connec- ... one of our internet correspondents wondered if Snape is going to fall in love? JKR: Yeah? Who on earth would want Snape in love with them, that is a very horrible idea. Erm ... Lydon: But you'd get an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape JKR: It is, isn't it ... I got ... There's so much I wish I could say to you, and I can't because it'd ruin ... I promise you ... whoever asked that question, can I just say to you that I'm - I'm slightly stunned that you've said that - erm - and you'll find out why I'm so stunned if you read book 7. And that's all I'm going to say. Lydon: Mmmm - this is - this is encouraging. (1:17)

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total hatred - Jul 2, 2004 3:57 pm (#1165 of 2916)

Based on my analysis of that statement, it can be implied that in the last moments of his battle of dark and light, Snape gains the strength to retain his good side by the memories of his lost love.

It might be wrong, but I believe that it is the overall idea. Redemption.

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Madame Tartan - Jul 2, 2004 7:18 pm (#1166 of 2916)

Ruler of my Imaginary World
Perhaps the Wizard Wedding Bells will be Seamus Finnigan and Lavender Brown, or maybe that is just dreaming on my part. Wink

Unless the wedding bells belong to Charlie Weasley and Tonks. Does anyone else ‘ship Charlie/Tonks?

I can not imagine the staff having permanent seats at the Head table, after all, the students do not. Besides, if each teacher had a specific spot to sit, based on rank, then would not Hagrid’s seat become the substitute professor’s seat while Hagrid is gone? Harry does not mention her taking over Hagrid’s spot. I imagine some of the professors move about from meal to meal, while others, like Dumbledore and McGonagall sit in the same seat each time, and everyone else knows not to sit there. A bit like that, bully who claims the seat in the back corner each year I guess, except, of course, neither are bullies. Snape on the other hand... Wink

Has anyone considered the fact that some of the professors could already be married? Perhaps Spout or the mysterious Professor Vector have a spouse hiding off in some private rooms somewhere… Wouldn’t that be interesting?

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Sir Tornado - Jul 2, 2004 8:01 pm (#1167 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
We'd have seen 'em atleast in 5 books, anyway, where do you think they'd eat Tartan? Seamus and Lavender do not strike me to be mature enough, to be married before the end of the series ,neither have they been mentioned together in OotP. They may get married in the epilogue, but then it might not be described in detail. I still think Harry would see his parents' wedding in Dumbledore's pensive; after all, Harry has seen many things in memory for the first time... the Wizengamot, James, Riddle, why not a wedding? Or perhaps Percy and Penolpe Clearwater (Have I got the spelling wrong?)

Charlie and Tonks? maybe if Charlie comes back to England.

Hey, has anyone noticed? Hermione has been sneaking looks at Harry. I noticed it while reading the Chapter: Dumbledore's Army in OotP.

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Star Crossed - Jul 2, 2004 8:07 pm (#1168 of 2916)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hey, has anyone noticed? Hermione has been sneaking looks at Harry. I noticed it while reading the Chapter: Dumbledore's Army in OotP.

I would, too, if I knew my friend could explode every five seconds. Harry has a problem with anger in this book, and Hermione doesn't know how to control it.

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Chris. - Jul 2, 2004 8:12 pm (#1169 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
And didn't Ron tell her about talking in his sleep? Hermione's smart enough to know to keep an eye (or two ) on Harry.

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Sir Tornado - Jul 2, 2004 8:15 pm (#1170 of 2916)

Rebel without a cause.
No, It's not like that, while Harry is telling everyone where they are supposed to be for the first DA meeting, Harry spots Hermione looking at him for a long time. He asks "what" and then Hermione raises doubt about Harry's idea of using the room of requirement.

Edit: Prongs, another new Avatar. Where do you get these cool images? Who is in this one anyway?

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S.E. Jones - Jul 2, 2004 8:24 pm (#1171 of 2916)

Let it snow!
Well, I think you just argued against your own observation. She is looking at him because she is curious about his choice of the room. When he asks about the look, she voices the concerns.....

Seems straight forward to me.....

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Chris. - Jul 2, 2004 8:30 pm (#1172 of 2916)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Okay, that's the "look" you meant. As S.E. said, seems straightforward enough.

As for a Wizarding Wedding, I hope we do see one but not any of Harry's classmates They're too young. Maybe Percy and Penelope but it doesn't seem lightly. Bill and Fleur? Hmmm... Possible. Charlie/Tonks... Nah, they're both young and enerjectic. They don't want to be "tied down" with another person. Might have a relationshi