Is Voldemort Our Next Ghost?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Is Voldemort Our Next Ghost?

Post  Elanor on Sat May 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Is Voldemort Our Next Ghost?

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

theshadow07 - Jul 13, 2006 8:25 am
Edited by Kip Carter Sep 8, 2006 1:54 am
Well, I think everyone here are a little afraid about death, but Voldemort has nightmares about being death ; ), well, what if harry kills voldy, and voldy has Too much fear of being dead that he turns into a ghost. We know this for the chat between harry and Nick the ghost of Griffindor What do you think?


Last edited by Elanor on Sat May 28, 2011 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Elanor
Hufflepuff Prefect
Hufflepuff Prefect

Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 45
Location : France

Back to top Go down

Is Voldemort Our Next Ghost? (Post 1 to 50)

Post  Elanor on Sat May 28, 2011 12:22 pm

theshadow07 - Jul 13, 2006 8:31 am (#1 of 50)
I think that in book 7 harry (or anyone else) will kill Voldemort but Voldemort is going to become a ghost (probably another ghost of slytherin)Smile

- - - - - - - - - -
journeymom - Jul 13, 2006 9:47 am (#2 of 50)

...*shivers* Ooh, I hope not! Or, if so, I hope he stays out of Hogwarts. He has a truly evil personality, a malevolent presence, and that just doesn't belong in a school of eleven to 18 year olds.

I admit, it initially makes sense that Voldemort would choose to be a ghost over the unknown. But would he, really? Would being a ghost be good enough for him, or would going beyond the Veil be preferable to even LV, to the powerless, ignominious existence of a ghost?

The Hogwarts ghosts, at least viewed through Harry's eyes, aren't exactly dignified characters. They are described almost comically. I'm not sure that existence would suffice for Voldemort.

- - - - - - - - - -
haymoni - Jul 13, 2006 10:01 am (#3 of 50)

Which would be perfect.

I for one do not care if Voldy is satisfied with his existence.

As a matter of fact, I would LOVE it if he was absolutely miserable with his existence.

I vote for ghost! And I hope Peeves is his keeper!!!

- - - - - - - - - -
Soul Search - Jul 13, 2006 10:08 am (#4 of 50)

No ghost. Voldemort would be dangerous, even as a ghost, and especially at Hogwarts where there are young minds to influence.

Nor can he go "beyond the veil." He would cause trouble there too.

Voldemort must cease to exist, in any form.

I like the dementor's kiss idea.

- - - - - - - - - -
Choices - Jul 13, 2006 10:23 am (#5 of 50)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I wonder if Voldemort with his shredded, greatly diminished soul would even have the option of choosing to become a ghost? I think he has blown his chances for any sort of pleasant afterlife, even a "ghostly" one.

- - - - - - - - - -
Magic Words - Jul 13, 2006 11:02 am (#6 of 50)

I agree with Soul Search. Even as a ghost, he's too dangerous. But if he were killed and able to become a ghost, he certainly would. It happens to people who are afraid of death, and that defines Voldemort to a T.

Either precautions will have to be taken against his return as a ghost (maybe Choices is right and the Horcruxes took care of it) or Harry will have to vanquish him without killing him.

You know, it says "either must die at the hand of the other," and a dementor's kiss doesn't kill you, but there's nothing saying Harry can't kill what's left of him once his soul is gone.

- - - - - - - - - -
Soul Search - Jul 13, 2006 12:29 pm (#7 of 50)

Edited Jul 13, 2006 1:27 pm
I wonder if the prophecy limits "die" to just a physical body death?

At Godric's Hollow Voldemort's body "died" but his soul stayed around. Did Voldemort "die" then?

I think that a dementor's kiss would qualify as "dying" even though the body would exist as an empty shell.

Problem is, of course, that Voldemort would then "die" at the dementors' "hand," not Harry's. Something tricky would have to occur to fulfill the prophecy. (I assume the prophecy will be fulfilled, although that isn't really essential. Dumbledore does say that not all prophecies come to pass.)

Interesting question. The prophecy, more or less, will have caused Voldemort's defeat, but does it actually have to happen as stated?

- - - - - - - - - -
Magic Words - Jul 13, 2006 12:52 pm (#8 of 50)

Oh! You're right, Soul Search! Harry and Voldemort have the power to walk away from the prophecy at any point, they just choose not to. But Harry could alter some small detail if he wants, like choosing to win the fight some other way.

- - - - - - - - - -
deletedaccount - Jul 13, 2006 1:00 pm (#9 of 50)

Harry doesn't have the power to walk away if Voldemort doesn't because Voldemort will keep persuing him no matter what. Harry would have to keep running away all his life and hope he doesn't get discovered.

- - - - - - - - - -
Magic Words - Jul 13, 2006 1:36 pm (#10 of 50)

Yes, Mezuzas, that's the case at the moment. But if Harry vanquished Voldemort without killing him, this would be a divergence from the prophecy, yet it would solve the conflict so the prophecy no longer applied.

- - - - - - - - - -
Choices - Jul 13, 2006 6:13 pm (#11 of 50)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
The Dementor's Kiss would be just the opposite of what happend to Voldemort at Godric's Hollow - there his body died and his soul remained viable - with the Dementor's Kiss, his soul would die and his body would remain viable. What must happen is that both have to die - that requires destroying all the Horcruxes first, then it will be possible to destroy Voldemort, body and soul.

- - - - - - - - - -
geauxtigers - Jul 13, 2006 7:21 pm (#12 of 50)

Yum!
And if Voldemort gets the kiss, his soul is gone, then when he dies, he can't become a ghost because he has no soul... thinking out loud here, does that makes sense to anyone else?

- - - - - - - - - -
Magic Words - Jul 13, 2006 7:54 pm (#13 of 50)

Yes, geauxtigers, I think that could be it.

- - - - - - - - - -
So Sirius - Jul 13, 2006 8:46 pm (#14 of 50)

Of course, LV could kill Harry, that would fulfill the prophecy. Hopefully only after Harry makes LV able to be killed, by destroying all the horcruxes and then the dementors can give LV a nice big wet one.

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Jul 13, 2006 11:15 pm (#15 of 50)

No ghost. Voldemort would be dangerous, even as a ghost ... Voldemort must cease to exist, in any form.

I agree, Soul Search!

Solitaire

- - - - - - - - - -
haymoni - Jul 14, 2006 6:59 am (#16 of 50)

Moaning Myrtle got banished to her bathroom. She does get out, but she doesn't seem to roam the castle.

Maybe Moldy Voldy could get banished to the Chamber.

- - - - - - - - - -
Mattew Bates - Jul 14, 2006 11:58 am (#17 of 50)

“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
That would be excellent, haymoni! Then he could be stuck with a rotting basilisk corpse for a few centuries! That is, if there's any microscopic life forms resilient enough to feed off of something as poisonous as a basilisk...

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Jul 14, 2006 11:16 pm (#18 of 50)

I hope not ... I do not even like the idea of him gliding around Hogwarts as a ghost. Yuck!

- - - - - - - - - -
Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 15, 2006 5:23 am (#19 of 50)

Having split his soul is there enough echo of Voldeort for a ghost to exist? Nearly-headless Nick had a complete soul, Voldemort does not and has lost at least two pieces of it. If Voldemort does become a ghost he will be very faint compared to the others.

But there is a place to confine him to, the place where he may die. The Love room. As he is powerless against love in real life then he will be powerless as a ghost.

- - - - - - - - - -
haymoni - Jul 16, 2006 7:07 am (#20 of 50)

"Was that a ghost I just saw?"

"Yeah, that's Moldy Voldy. He was a really powerful evil wizard in his day, but now you can hardly tell he's here."

I think Voldy would HATE that!

- - - - - - - - - -
Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 17, 2006 1:39 am (#21 of 50)

I never thought of Mouldy Voldy as the name for a ghost. I like it. I would even give my copyright up to JKR so she could use it.

- - - - - - - - - -
Die Zimtzicke - Aug 1, 2006 8:04 am (#22 of 50)

No, I don't think so personally. You choose to become a ghost. If he is destroyed (I'm still not sure what Jo means by defeated) I think it will be something sudden, and he won't even think about that choice. He'll be too horrified in my opinion about the idea of losing to think out his options until it is too late.

- - - - - - - - - -
Finn BV - Aug 1, 2006 9:20 am (#23 of 50)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Perhaps there is a way to refuse somebody entrance to "ghost"-dom. I think Nearly Headless Nick is a great resource for Harry, and maybe Nick would know something about killing somebody in such a way, or removing their soul, or something, that doesn't allow them to become a ghost, even if Voldemort wanted to (which I don't think he would). Maybe the disgrace he has put into his life (e.g. drinking Unicorn's blood, splitting souls, murder) wouldn't let him -- maybe you have to be "worthy" to become a ghost. I don't really know.

- - - - - - - - - -
haymoni - Aug 1, 2006 10:17 am (#24 of 50)

I don't know how much time Myrtle had to choose about being a ghost.

You must have always been fearful of it.

Perhaps your soul just knows.

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2006 10:55 am (#25 of 50)

Is it possible that Voldemort won't have enough soul remaining to even make up a ghost? Actually, I cannot see his ghost being allowed to take up residence in Hogwarts, where impressionable children live. What if he decides to start grooming the next evil boy wizard? Myrtle and Nick definitely interact with the kids ... Voldy's ghost might be potentially dangerous if he began to tutor his successor.

Solitaire

- - - - - - - - - -
Magic Words - Aug 1, 2006 2:56 pm (#26 of 50)

I know there's no canon basis for this, but I always thought of it as a reflexive choice at the moment of death. Either your soul clutches desperately at its earthly existence long enough to get stuck there, or you have the courage to let go. I don't think you have to speak an incantation or anything like that, requiring presence of mind.

- - - - - - - - - -
Mattew Bates - Aug 1, 2006 3:15 pm (#27 of 50)

“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
I agree, Magic Words. How else would Professor Binns have become one in his sleep?

- - - - - - - - - -
TheSaint - Aug 1, 2006 4:44 pm (#28 of 50)

Kind of like...see the light, be the light...or see the light, run!

- - - - - - - - - -
Deb Zawacki - Aug 1, 2006 8:36 pm (#29 of 50)

Living as a ghost seems like an apt fate--no body, no power-just to watch others live for eternity but to always be dead and never alive....earthbound--no great next adventure.

- - - - - - - - - -
Die Zimtzicke - Aug 2, 2006 8:28 am (#30 of 50)

But ghosts can cause a lot of trouble, haunting people. I still can't figure out how the Ministry forced Myrtle to quite haunting the girl she had the huge grudge against, the one she came back to torment. How to you force a ghost not to haunt? I have read fanfics, though, where they have forced ghosts through the veil, and trapped them on the other side, which is an interesting concept.

I try and keep in mind when I think about Mrytle that Myrtle didn't walk out of that stall afraid of dying. She was hurt and angry and ready to tell off the boy who was in the bathroom. Binns wasn't afraid of dying either. His teaching, perhaps, WAS his life, it would seem, so he saw no reason to give it up.

- - - - - - - - - -
Steve Newton - Aug 2, 2006 9:02 am (#31 of 50)

Librarian
I think that Olive Hornby was the haunted one. Not sure whether or not we have had her mentioned elsewhere.

- - - - - - - - - -
Magic Words - Aug 2, 2006 9:24 am (#32 of 50)

Maybe fear of death isn't the only reason to become a ghost, if you have another reason to stay and you're willing to stay for all eternity. Myrtle was spiteful enough that she preferred being a ghost until doomsday just for the chance of haunting Olive Hornby. Professor Binns simply had no interest in the afterlife. Nick was afraid. Sirius, on the other hand, even if he did wish he could stay and help Harry, probably recognized that going on was the better choice in the long run. He could see James again, Harry would be joining them eventually, and let's face it--when does Sirius ever pass up an adventure?

- - - - - - - - - -
haymoni - Aug 2, 2006 10:03 am (#33 of 50)

I really want Voldy to be a ghost.

He'd be powerless - nobody seems to really respect the ghosts, other than The Bloody Baron, but they just seem to stay out of his way.

I wonder if Tom knows how one becomes a ghost.

It could be common knowledge in the Wizarding World. Harry just didn't know because he hadn't studied it or heard from someone else.

A really faint ghost would be even better.

- - - - - - - - - -
geauxtigers - Aug 2, 2006 5:36 pm (#34 of 50)

Yum!
I think it would be good punishment for Voldemort to live in eternity as a ghost. He would be trapped inside himself forever and could never escape. I think he'd realize that being in such a state really isn't what most would want. He'd realize that death is probably a better adventure and that DD is right in saying that its the next great adventure. Death may seem like an unthinkable concept to some and that going into the unknown is a terrible thing, when in reality, I think it'd be much worse to live for eternity. It would get old and you could never escape. I think that Tom becoming a ghost would give him partially what he worked his whole life for and then have it slap him in the face. I think that a taste of what he thought would be wonderful, is just what he needs.

However, the flip side if he were to become a ghost, is that though 95% powerless he may be, he could still influence others. Solitary confinement would be nice, but I'm not sure you can do that with a ghost as they can glide through anything...

I hope I'm making sense....Just think of it like this, if you were to become a ghost, you would have to watch all the people you love go onto the next great adventure, but you wouldn't be able to join them. At first I was wanting Sirius to be a ghost, but now I see why Jo did what she did. Harry will see Sirius and his parents and his true family one day. If Sirius became a ghost, he would've only seen Harry when Harry was alive. By not being a ghost, he can see him for eternity. I think this is what Vold needs to see because he doesn't understand the power of love or death. He has this tendancy to underestimate things...

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Aug 2, 2006 5:49 pm (#35 of 50)

I still think it would be dangerous even to have Voldemort's ghostly self hanging around Hogwarts. The ghosts--particularly Myrtle and Nick--do interact with the students, and I can't believe anyone would want even the ghost of Voldemort anywhere near their kids. The ghost might not be able to kill or harm a kid in a physical sense ... but I agree with Tori that he might attempt to influence some kids, and that could be just as deadly in the long run.

Solitaire

- - - - - - - - - -
Finn BV - Aug 2, 2006 6:03 pm (#36 of 50)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
While I understand the point that it would be miserable for Voldy to suffer as a ghost for the rest of his life eternity, I don't really see why anybody would hope for it. I mean, wouldn't you rather have his soul destroyed (outsmarting him on the Horcruxes) rather than see him still around, his presence neverending?

- - - - - - - - - -
timrew - Aug 2, 2006 6:51 pm (#37 of 50)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
I agree with Finn. Wouldn't you rather a Voldie ghost (something like Peeves), rather than a Voldemort destroyed forever?

I know which I'd prefer if I were a pupil at Hogwarts......................

- - - - - - - - - -
geauxtigers - Aug 2, 2006 8:50 pm (#38 of 50)

Yum!
I'm not saying thats what I want, I don't want Voldemort to be a ghost, I'm saying that I see it as good punishment for his life. I think in would be a terrible thing to have him influencing the kids at Hogwarts, one of the main reasons I don't think Jo would wait time with this when she can just pronounce him dead and done...

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Aug 2, 2006 9:34 pm (#39 of 50)

No, I want Voldy destroyed forever and ever. Pfffftttt!

- - - - - - - - - -
geauxtigers - Aug 2, 2006 11:23 pm (#40 of 50)

Yum!
LOL me too Soli, forever, gone, never to return. Ever. Ghost Voldy...ummm that as bad as the real thing with twice as much anger because he can't kill anyone...I wonder if he could, being a parslemouth, still control the basilisk, (I know its dead, but say it wasn't) could a ghost do things like open the chamber of secrets? Okay I need to go to bed I'm thinking to hard again...

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Aug 2, 2006 11:29 pm (#41 of 50)

A parselmouth ghost ... just what Hogwarts needs, right? I think not.

- - - - - - - - - -
haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 6:49 am (#42 of 50)

I just want him to suffer.

Death's too good for him.

He doesn't deserve "the next great adventure".

I envisioned a very faint ghost that was so weak he couldn't even talk.

That way he really couldn't influence anybody.

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Aug 3, 2006 9:03 am (#43 of 50)

I'd say to sic a Dementor on him, but there wouldn't even be enough for an appetizer. If he wants to be a ghost, send him to Durmstrang or Azkaban ... not Hogwarts.

Solitaire

- - - - - - - - - -
Detail Seeker - Aug 3, 2006 12:43 pm (#44 of 50)

Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Nowhere is it written down, nor carved in stone or graved into metals, that ghosts have to live in schools. The MoM can, as seen in the case of Myrtle, banish ghosts from or to special places. So, having Voldie as a ghost in Azkaban or in the Riddle mansion or the Shrieking Shack would be a solution. If it is good or bad is to everyone´s judgement

- - - - - - - - - -
haymoni - Aug 3, 2006 3:46 pm (#45 of 50)

Tom Riddle loved Hogwarts just as much as Harry did.

If he is to be a ghost, it would be more cruel if he hung around Hogwarts. He would have to think about his life - the choices he made. He'd see potential in a student and - in my "silent ghost" scenario - he would be unable to do anything about it.

I could see kids making fun of him. "Moldy Voldy?? A great wizard?? You're kidding, right??"

- - - - - - - - - -
timrew - Aug 3, 2006 3:59 pm (#46 of 50)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Have Voldy's ghost haunting the passage that goes from the Whomping Willow to The Shrieking Shack. Best place for him.

- - - - - - - - - -
Finn BV - Aug 3, 2006 6:46 pm (#47 of 50)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Death's too good for him. He doesn't deserve "the next great adventure". --haymoni

Remember, there are alternatives besides ghost-dom and death. Destruction of the soul (which I think we'll have to see… souls became utterly important in HBP with the Horcruxes) and discarding or destruction of his body works just fine for me.

As a matter of fact, do we know what happens to a soul-less person? Like, what's Barty Crouch, Jr., up to nowadays? His body's there, but there're no occupants… so does it just sit there?

- - - - - - - - - -
Deb Zawacki - Aug 4, 2006 4:10 pm (#48 of 50)

Ooooo maybe he could be forced to live as a portrait! On the third floor--in a secret room...

- - - - - - - - - -
Magic Words - Aug 9, 2006 6:35 pm (#49 of 50)

I don't think ghosthood would be a fitting punishment for Voldemort, even setting aside the fact that I want him gone, finished, destroyed utterly, etc. He's not going to grow a conscience just because he's denied the thing he most feared, even if he gets bored of hanging around as a ghost. He may hate it, but I think he would still shun death because he will simply never understand the attraction of a "next great adventure," he doesn't have any loved ones to miss, and ghosts do have more influence on the world of the living than dead people do.

- - - - - - - - - -
Solitaire - Aug 9, 2006 8:45 pm (#50 of 50)

Alas, he seems more like Dementor material, to me.
avatar
Elanor
Hufflepuff Prefect
Hufflepuff Prefect

Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 45
Location : France

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum