Punishment Fitting the Crimes

Punishment Fitting the Crimes

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

Chemyst - Apr 13, 2007 4:24 pm
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 4:53 am
A while back we had a thread where forum-ers worked together to list all the items Harry ever put in his trunk. I hope that this thread will continue in the same spirit of cooperation to compile a comprehensive list of punishment & detentions.

Many know that breeches of moral behavior are dealt with; that sometimes these result in direct punishment such as scolding or detention, and that other times it is more of a "what goes round, comes round" reap-what-you-sow karma that brings a consequence.

And while it is more Slytherin than I want to admit, I'd like for this thread to quantitatively provide as many examples we can find of either 'direct reprimand' or 'natural consequence' penalties for lying, cheating or stealing; and please list the book and chapter if you know it.

I edited this thread in the hopes of keeping the theme, to which the title refers, in focus. A new thread, + HP Book Banning Court Case in Georgia, USA, was established to allow the second theme to be discussed. - Kip 1:37 am Sunday 13 May 2007

Madam Pince - Apr 13, 2007 5:10 pm (#1 of 35)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 2:32 am
I'll help.

I'd be really interested to see the list of when the good characters lied, cheated, or stole and didn't get punished, too. That would have to be a very short list... would we count the assistance that Harry and Ron get from Hermione on homework assignments as "cheating?" And to be fair, Ginny did fib to Molly about throwing stuff at the door to see if it had an Imperturbable Charm on it...

So we're only working with "good" characters, right? No Draco obviously -- are we meaning only the Trio? Adults included too?

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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geauxtigers - Apr 13, 2007 5:35 pm (#2 of 35)
Yum!
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 2:34 am
Well I can start off by saying that the copying Hermione's homework, thats the most believable thing that isn't usually punished. I know, I see it everyday. Its very rarely caught.

This also goes with my opinion that some think kids don't know the difference between right and wrong. They aren't idiots, even a 2 year old knows that he can't do this or that.

Also, umm hello, kids aren't perfect?

So for some examples...hmm Harry has an invisibilty cloak, thus he sneeks around after hours. He doesn't usually get caught doing this, but he has on a few occasions gotten caught when he is cloack-less, namely when him and Hermione left it on the tower after dropping off Norbert. THey did get caught. Theres some karma for ya! They don't always get aways with things. And guess what, they are kids! They are acting as any kid would, and in my opinion, should act!

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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journeymom - Apr 13, 2007 6:16 pm (#3 of 35)
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 2:37 am
It's all about CHOICES, isn't it? Tori, you are exactly right. The whole Potter saga is about the consequences of people's choices. People can't redeem themselves unless they have done something wrong (human, mortal, normal).

Chemyst, I'm on board. I'm reading PoA to my son. I'll keep note of various infractions and corresponding punishments as we go along.

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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virginiaelizabeth - Apr 13, 2007 9:11 pm (#4 of 35)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 2:38 am
I'm definately on board for this. I'll start writing them down as I see them!

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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Chemyst - Apr 14, 2007 6:27 am (#5 of 35)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 2:39 am
So we're only working with "good" characters, right? No Draco obviously -- are we meaning only the Trio? Adults included too? – Madam Pince
It can be an equal opportunity list of the times characters do not get away with lying and rule breaking.
The Lexicon has a list of 21 detentions but those often show that getting detention is a good way to pick up valuable clues. It also has a list for house points which doesn't make an effective "consequences of choices" argument either. The purpose of this thread is very different; this is a list of times lying and rule-breaking are dealt with directly – or – when they have a long-term penalty that only made it appear they got away with it.

This is the kind of answer I had in mind:

PS/SS 9 – Harry seems to get off lightly with a few curt words from McGonagall, and Draco seems to go free completely for disobeying Madam Hooch's order to stay off the brooms while she takes Neville to the hospital wing. Draco maliciously broke the order. Harry broke the order to defend the underdog. But as the story unfolds, we learn that Harry's reprieve is conditional, "I want to hear you're training hard, Potter, or I may change my mind about punishing you." -MMcG We also learn that Draco's apparent getting away with disobedience back-fired and ultimately contributed to the special circumstances Professor Flitwick mentions in chapter 10. When Draco hears this, the "look of horror on Malfoy's face" shows the reader that Draco's payback came in the form of unintended consequences.

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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geauxtigers - Apr 14, 2007 5:06 pm (#6 of 35)
Yum!
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 2:58 am
I thought of another one sort of...Romalda Vane and her love potion that she spiked the cauldron cakes with. Even though Harry told her about a love potion, Sluggy never questioned him further, granted this is because Ron was poisoned and had a lot of other things on his mind.

Which made me think of Malfoy and his whole ordeal with whatever he's been up to. He never really got in trouble out-right mostly because he was never caught at it. It will be intersesting to see how that unfolds in DH. But I'm sure Voldemort will have some stuff in store for him. But he gets in trouble for not doing his homework 3 times in a row for McGonagall. Thats chapter 10 maybe of HBP Opals and something, sorry don't have the book on hand. Its just after Katie's accident.

I'll keep an eye out, I'm almost done with HBP.

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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Laura W - Apr 14, 2007 5:33 pm (#7 of 35)
Oooo, I've got one! (jumping up and down, with hand in air)

In PoA, Neville left his list of passwords lying around and his punishment was that all further trips to Hogsmeade were cancelled.

Laura

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rambkowalczyk - Apr 14, 2007 6:15 pm (#8 of 35)
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 3:03 am
SS chapt 1 Voldemort kills James and Lily. Then he tries to kill Harry. Instead the curse backfires and Voldemort is powerless.

Neither Petunia nor Vernon discipline Dudley. As a result he grows up to be spoiled and has difficulty getting along in the world.

CHap 2 Dudley is overly agressive to Harry beating him up etc. His parents do nothing. Dudley thinks this is a normal way to behave. He thinks the world owes him a living.

The Dursleys neglect Harry. Harry has alot of internal anger that shows up in emotional magic. This magic not only inconveniences the Dursleys, it frightens them creating a vicious circle. They act guilty in chap 3 when a letter is addressed to Harry in the cupboard under the stairs.

Dudley punches Harry in the reptile house causing Harry to fall on the concrete floor. The glass window to the reptile house disappears and the snake escapes frightening Dudley.

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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geauxtigers - Apr 14, 2007 6:41 pm (#9 of 35)
Yum!
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 3:07 am
I also thought of when Harry was caught in the pensieve in Snape's office. Though he wasn't given detention or anything, the after affect was probably worse. Snape's anger at him and not giving him occlemency lessons anymore and that had a certain affect on him we know even though Harry wasn't trying as hard as he probably could've he wasn't given a second chance.

Also the many times Harry has been in front of Dumbledore and not gotten in trouble by DD. The way Dumbledore reacts Harry thinks its worse. He wishes he'd just yell at him, the dissappointment was enough. So thats sort of an example in general. Its like this when Harry has his temper tamtrum in DD's office at the end of OoP. He doesn't really get punished for destrying all of his things, but the affect is the same. See my point?

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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Jenniffler - Apr 14, 2007 10:28 pm (#10 of 35)
Searching for gold in the HP world. Oh, here it is!
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 3:11 am
Laura --Oooo, I've got one! (jumping up and down, with hand in air) In PoA, Neville left his list of passwords lying around and his punishment was that all further trips to Hogsmeade were cancelled.

Ironically, he hadn't lost it. Crookshanks stole it out of his bedroom. Still, an excellent example of grown-ups laying down the law.

I think one of the major points of the Harry Potter books is natural consequences versus constructed consequences.

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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TheSaint - Apr 14, 2007 10:57 pm (#11 of 35)
As far as the copying of homework goes, I think the consequence appears in thier grades. If you do not know the information, you get it wrong on t¨he exam. Thus Harry and Ron get lower marks than Hermione and actually fail a couple of OWLS.

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Laura W - Apr 14, 2007 11:02 pm (#12 of 35)
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 3:20 am
"Ironically, he hadn't lost it. Crookshanks stole it out of his bedroom." (Jenniffler)

I never said he lost the list. I just said that he made the list and left it lying around. That, in itself, horrified McGonagall. PoA, Chapter 13, p.198 (Raincoast), McGonagall: "Which person,' she said, her voice shaking. 'which abysmally foolish person wrote down this week's passwords and left them lying around?" And in the next chapter, "Neville was in total disgrace. Professor McGonagall was so furious with him she had banned him from all future Hogsmeade visits, given him a detention and forbidden anyone to give him the password into the Tower."

I guess maybe it's kind of like secret agents who have to memorize their orders and then burn (or eat) the paper it's written on so there is no tangible evidence of what those orders are. (shrug)

So, as I said, an example of someone who committed a crime (writing down passwords and leaving the list lying around) being punished.

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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virginiaelizabeth - Apr 14, 2007 11:09 pm (#13 of 35)
SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
NOt sure if this is one or not, but I'm putting it anyway...

If you commit the crime of slaying a unicorn, and you drink it's blood, it will keep you alive if you are almost dead, but the result is that you have a cursed life.

Voldemort creates 7 horcurxes, and it destroys his soul to the point where it can no longer be repaired.

Marietta reveals the secret about the DA, and get's SNEAK written across her forhead.

This probably isn't the best example but... Malfoy making fun of Harry, and Moody turning him into a ferret! LOL

I can't think of anymore right now, that was off the top of my head. I'll keep looking.

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T Vrana - Apr 15, 2007 6:56 am (#14 of 35)
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 3:27 am
As far as the copying of homework goes, I think the consequence appears in thier grades. If you do not know the information, you get it wrong on t¨he exam. Thus Harry and Ron get lower marks than Hermione and actually fail a couple of OWLS.

Excellent point. All actions have consequences, and the HP books do a fantastic job of illustrating this, if you bother to read them. The copying of homework and its consequence may not be obvious to some children, but that's where parents being informed and involved comes in. Read the books and discuss them with your children.

While McLaggen was a jerk, was it right for Hermione to confund him? Consequence?

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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Chemyst - Apr 15, 2007 11:59 am (#15 of 35)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
While McLaggen was a jerk, was it right for Hermione to confund him? Consequence?

There might be other costs, but off the top of my head I'd say that Harry as team captain allowed it; in the end, Harry wasn't able to play in his last game of the year either, (also for using a spell he should not have used on someone.) I'd have to reread it for a Hermione consequence.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


PS/SS 11 - During Harry's first Quidditch game, his broom starts going all wonky. (We learn later that Quirrell was jinxing it.) During the confusion, we read, Marcus Flint seized the Quaffle and scored five times without anyone noticing. Flint's unsportsmanlike conduct gave him five more goals, but the outcome was not satisfying. Even though it gave him the extra points he wanted, Flint was still howling about the loss twenty minutes after the game ended.
Moral in the story: Cheating does not bring total satisfaction


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


In PA 11, Hermione tells a lie to protect Hagrid's feelings. Ron backs her up.
"'I've not bin meself 'ately,' said Hagrid. ... 'Worried abou' Buckbeak , an' no one likin' me classes– '
'We do like them,' lied Hermione at once.
'Yeah, they're great!' said Ron, crossing his fingers under the table."

Even though some people would say such a white lie is socially acceptable, and even though they appear to get away with it, there are consequences when the subject is revisited in HBP 11. All of them dropped Hagrid's class when they reached the NEWT level and by now, Hagrid has figured out he was lied to. When he sees the trio came to visit him, he stood and looked at them all for a split second, then turned and strode into his cabin, slamming the door behind him. After a page and a half of pounding on the door and a begrudging and sarcastic greeting, Hermione still tries a reworking of the same old lie, "we really wanted to carry on with Care of Magical Creatures, you know, ... We did! but none of us could fit it into our schedules!"

Hagrid is not buying it this time. He replies with a few well-placed snorts and a "Yeah. Righ'." Hermione may not have learned the lesson, but the reader can see she has lost credibility with Hagrid. We can also see that the original lie to spare his feelings has hurt him more in the long run.
Moral in the story: Even lies told for so-called good reasons are harmful, to both the person being lied to and the person doing the lying.


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Jenniffler - Apr 15, 2007 9:15 pm (#16 of 35)
Searching for gold in the HP world. Oh, here it is!
Some Examples of Consequences

McGonagall docking fifty points apiece for Harry, Hermione, Neville, and Draco for being out of bed after hours and setting detention in the Forbidden Forest--PS/SS Chapters 14 & 15
Ron burping up slugs, when he meant to do the same to Draco.--CoS Chapter 7
Ron talks back to Snape in DADA class and is sent to detention to manually scrub bedpans--POA Chapter 9
Ludo Bagman gambles recklessly and disappears in disgrace because he owes the goblins lot of gold--GoF Chapter 37
Harry, Fred, and George are given a lifetime ban from Quidditch by Umbridge for fighting with Malfoy. OotP Chapter 19
Harry uses Sectumsempra on Draco. Snape gives Harry detention chronicling the misdeed of James Potter and Sirius Black. He also misses playing in the last quidditch game for Griffindor.--HBP Chapter 24


Note to Laura W. Kudos! You have not only out logiced me, but have given a good references to back up your *excellent* examples.

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Laura W - Apr 15, 2007 10:27 pm (#17 of 35)
How gracious you are, Jenniffler! A quality too often absent in Muggles. (friendly smile)

Re Hermoine: As much as I really like Hermoine, I always felt that what she did to Cormac to cause him to lose the coveted Keeper position on the team was reprehensible and beneath her. I suppose she sort of maybe paid for it when she went with McLaggen to Slughorn's party and had to put up with his - um ... let's just say, his most unwanted over-familiarity. (blush) I would have liked to see her suffer greater consequences than that, however, but cannot think that she did so. Jo certainly wrote McLaggen to be a first-class jerk but, in my opinion, that does not excuse Hermoine using magic (cheating) to get the guy she really likes the job.

Laura

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rambkowalczyk - Apr 16, 2007 6:27 am (#18 of 35)
Another consequence of Hermione confounding McLaggin was that she did not think that Ron was up to the task of being a Keeper and that Harry would do the same thing that she did. This is what caused the big riff when Harry faked the use of Felix Felicity. Hermione really thought Harry used the potion, Ron never thought this.

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T Vrana - Apr 16, 2007 10:15 am (#19 of 35)
Really? I thought Ron did think Harry used it, that's why he did well, his confidence was what it should be without thinking he had felix on his side. That's why Harry made a big show of doing it, to make Ron think he had to boost his confidence. But then he turned on Hermione, when she thought so too.

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Choices - Apr 16, 2007 12:01 pm (#20 of 35)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I totally agree T Vrana. Ron even makes a comment later in the book about how the effects of Felix Felicis feel - he thinks he knows cause he thinks he had it, or he thought he did at the time.

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geauxtigers - Apr 16, 2007 1:31 pm (#21 of 35)
Yum!
I just read that part last night, Ron knows that he didn't really have Felix.

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T Vrana - Apr 16, 2007 2:00 pm (#22 of 35)
He didn't during the game....he was surprised when Harry told him otherwise post-game.

"There really wasn't anything in my pumpkin juice?" Ron said, astounded. "But the weather's good...and Vaisey couldn't play. .....I honestly haven't been given a lucky potion?"

HBP, page 299

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rambkowalczyk - Apr 16, 2007 2:42 pm (#23 of 35)
Harry faked the use of Felix Felicity. Hermione really thought Harry used the potion, Ron never thought this. rambkowalczyk

I just reread the chapter and discovered what I wrote wasn't quite accurate.

At breakfast Hermione tells Ron not to drink the pumpkin juice.

You just put something in that drink. ... You heard me. I saw you. You tipped something into Ron's drink. You've got the bottle in your hand right now!

Harry denies it. Ron drinks because he's tired of Hermione bossing him around.

She looked scandalized. Bending low so that only Harry could hear her, she hissed, "You should be expelled for that. I'd never have believed it of you, Harry!"

"Hark who's talking," he whispered back. "Confunded anyone lately?"

At this point Ron doesn't know who to believe Harry or Hermione.

Only later when they find out that Vaisey and Malfoy aren't playing does Ron really wonder if Harry put something in his juice.

"My drink...my pumpkin juice...you didn't?"

So Ron did think he had the potion. See also T Vrana's quote in previous entry.

But my original point is that when Hermione confunded Mclaggen she got her consequences by saying You spiked Ron's juice with lucky potion at breakfast! Felix Felicis!" ... "Yes you did, Harry, and that's why everything went right, there were Slytherin players missing and Ron saved everything!"

Implying that Ron couldn't do it by himself.

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geauxtigers - Apr 16, 2007 8:40 pm (#24 of 35)
Yum!
I know, T, I was responding to I think it was Ram's post, about after the fact he knew, not that he knew the truth during the match.

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totyle - Apr 16, 2007 9:29 pm (#25 of 35)
I thought Hermione got her payback for confunding Cormac by losing out on 'getting together' with Ron throughout major part of HBP. If she hadnt confunded Cormac, Ron most probably would not have made it to the team, would not have had the 'Felix in drink' argument with Hermione and would not have ended up with Lavender for the major part of the book.

Edit to add : And continuing this theme, purely speculating freely..if Cormac hadnt been confunded by Hermione, he would have made it to the team, but owing to his attitude would have been dropped by Harry probably after the first match and Ron as second choice would have made it to the team on his own merit and would have been more confident because of that, played better and managed to get the girl(Hr) sooner?!

So Hermione did lose out for doing something dishonest in a major way.Oh..all the chances she lost cuddling up with ickle ronnikins due to her confunding Cormac!

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T Vrana - Apr 18, 2007 9:52 am (#26 of 35)
geauxtigers- oh.....nevermind.

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T Vrana - Apr 18, 2007 9:58 am (#27 of 35)
totyle- Good point about the consequences, over the Felix incident

Ron as second choice would have made it to the team on his own merit and would have been more confident because of that

I'm not sure this works. He didn't know Hermione Confunded McLaggen, so he does think he made the team on his own merits. And being second choice because McLagen was a jerk and booted, would not be likley to boost his confidence as a keeper. He's still be second choice and only given the position based on being the 2nd best choice and a better personality.

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wynnleaf - Apr 19, 2007 11:34 am (#28 of 35)
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 3:43 am
There are times when the trio definitely make wrong ethical choices (like Hermione confunding McLaggin) or highly questionable ethical choices even if the intent was supposedly high minded (like in COS stealing from the Potions stores, setting off an explosion in class that injures innocent bystanders, drugging other students, etc.), and there doesn't appear to be any immediate obvious "punishment" or comeuppance (sp?).

However, I do think that to some extent JKR may eventually point out that some of these decisions are still wrong, even if made for "good" motives. Sometimes, she does it in the book.

For instance, when Hermione confunds McLaggin, she is a bit embarrassed when Harry pointed it out. But then readers get to see Hermione full of righteous indignation when she thought Harry "cheated" by giving Ron the Felix potion. An observant reader would realize that Hermione is be somewhat hypocritical -- willing to "cheat" to give her friend a chance to get on the team, but critical when she thinks others are cheating. I don't think the point is lost, just because JKR doesn't provide a direct "punishment" for Hermione.

Sometimes there are things that concern me a bit. At the end of GOF, many of the Gryffindors retaliate to Draco's very nasty predictions (no immediate physical threat by Draco and Co.) by hexing he and his friends into unconsciousness and then leaving their bodies unconscious in the hallway of the train throughout the trip, stepping over them as they leave. There is never anything more said about this.

Then at the end of OOTP, Draco and his friends attempt to hex Harry on the train in the hall, but the DA steps in and once again hexes Draco and friends into unconsciousness -- they appear like slugs in clothes -- and put them in a luggage rack (if I recall correctly). Once again, they are left there throughout the rest of the trip and at the end of the trip no one bothers to alert anyone to the circumstances of Draco and friends. No more is said about it in the book.

One might perhaps then equate what happened to Harry in HBP as a bit of comeuppance when he sneaks into Draco's train compartment to listen in on private conversation and when Draco caught him, froze Harry, silenced him, and kicked him in the nose (far less severe retribution than what had been done to Draco and his friends on the train for two years running).

Still, as far as the school goes, which should have known at least the results of each incident, even if they didn't know exactly who did it, there is no investigation to discover the guilty parties, much less any attempt at official punishment.

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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Solitaire - Apr 20, 2007 7:19 am (#29 of 35)
But my original point is that when Hermione confunded Mclaggen she got her consequences by saying You spiked Ron's juice with lucky potion at breakfast! Felix Felicis!" ... "Yes you did, Harry, and that's why everything went right, there were Slytherin players missing and Ron saved everything!"

Implying that Ron couldn't do it by himself.

I don't understand how these are consequences for Hermione.

Solitaire

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rambkowalczyk - Apr 20, 2007 9:17 am (#30 of 35)
In the ideal world where we face the consequence of our actions Ron would be hurt and angry if he knew that Hermione confunded Mcglaggen because it shows that Hermione thinks that Ron was not a good Quidditch player, that he could not succeed unless he cheated.

Ron discovered Hermione's true feelings when she says that it was the Felix Felicis that caused Ron to save the day (not his natural skill) forcing him to endure the hurt had he known that she confunded Mclaggen.

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PatPat - Apr 30, 2007 7:05 am (#31 of 35)
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 3:51 am
OK, I just entered this thread, and I haven't had a chance to read all of the posts, so bear with me if I repeat something.

As far as punishment, I can tell you, as a teacher, that cheating takes place pretty much on a regular basis. If caught, the kids are punished, but it is impossible to know and catch every instance of cheating. But, in the end, the cheaters face other types of consequences, as do Harry and Ron in the situations when they don't have her help. They have to work twice as hard because they have not done the work themselves. JKR DOES illustrate this on several occasions. One example would be the potions lesson in HBP18:

"Ron kept forgetting that he could no longer rely on Hermione to help him out of trouble when he failed to grasp what was going on." This may not be a punshment necessarily, but it IS a consequence, which is almost more important. Punishments do not always make the same impact as consequences.

I'll be back with more examples as I am re-reading the series now!

I edited some portion(s) of this post to conform with the title of this discussion. - Kip

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zelmia - May 6, 2007 3:04 pm (#32 of 35)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Very interesting topic; and one I don't recall having been explored on this forum in such detail. I think it's important - especially for the would-be Censors out there - to remember that the saga is told almost entirely from Harry's viewpoint. Therefore any "punishment" inflicted on any character other than Harry, Ron or Hermione is not likely ever to be addressed.

However, one exception immediately comes to mind and that is Lee Jordan mentioning the soothing effects of essence of murtlap for his hand. His remark lets us know immediately that he has, like Harry before him, suffered Umbridge's peculiar brand of detention.

The other thing is that while traditional "punishments" may perhaps seem to be relatively infrequently carried out, this does not mean that Harry, et al live in a world without consequences. And of course these are not necessarily the same thing. The fact that traditional punishments are meted out often forces a character into an alternate decision - one which, strictly speaking, may not be the "correct" thing to do.

For example, Ron lies about what actually bit his hand (Norbert) in Book 1. But this is because ultimately he is trying to protect Hagrid, not himself.

Ron and Harry steal the Ford Anglia in CS and not only are they punished in the traditional sense, but they must also suffer the consequences in the form of humiliation in front of the entire student body, thanks to Mrs. Weasley's Howler.

In PA Harry lies to Snape about the nature of the Marauder's Map. And though Lupin initially covers for Harry, it is also Lupin who confiscates the Map and gives Harry a royal telling off for keeping it in the first place. This time the consequences for Harry are A) having the Map taken away and B) the extreme disappointment expressed by Prof. Lupin - Harry's newest mentor and (at this time) only known direct link to Harry's parents.

Hermione is a bit harder to pin down. She does have the Forest Detention with the boys in Book 1. But we have to wait until Book 3 before Hermione gets into trouble (in the traditional, "school rules" sense) again. When Hermione mouths off to Prof. Trelawney one too many times, Trelawney kicks Hermione out of the class. This is actually one of the more realistic "punishments" in my opinion, because we have seen this sort of incident in real life.

Other quick ones that come to mind:
In OP McGonagall threatens to take Angelina Johnson's Captaincy from her if Angelina continues making a row in the Great Hall.

In HBP Draco Malfoy was given detention for some never-mentioned offense, which becomes his alibi for the Katie Bell incident.

In PA we learn that the Twins have an entire file of "punishments" all to themselves.

There are two underlying themes to this saga. One is that 'It is our choices, not our abilities that make us who we are'. The other is that 'No good deed goes unpunished'. In other words, there are consequences for everything in the HP world, even if they are not immediately apparent and we need Dumbledore to explain it at the end.

I'd better stop there. This is already a long enough post

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Nathan Zimmermann - May 12, 2007 6:05 pm (#33 of 35)
Edited by Kip Carter May 13, 2007 4:49 am
A question could it be argued that Umbridge's punishments are so severe that not even Phineas Nigellus Black would have inflicted them on a student.

Chemyst on May 12, 2007 7:29 pm added the following (with some edits):


The punishments Umbridge meted out were so severe that Rowling saw fit to deliver her up to the centaur's criminal justice system!

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zelmia - May 14, 2007 4:50 pm (#34 of 35)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
Ha! Whatever that is. I think not knowing is even worse than if she had actually described it.

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zelmia - May 23, 2007 1:42 pm (#35 of 35)
Oh! And that's a bad miss!
On the subject of Punishment, one of the things that Rowling is also very good at is showing that, as the main characters get older, they come to realise for themselves that things aren't always that simple, that clear cut. In the earlier episodes of the saga Harry and Ron, et al were punished in the traditional sense whenever they did something "against the rules" (detention, losing House points, priviledges taken, etc). But in the later books we see more consequences (both direct and indirect) for their choices as opposed to actual punishment.
In addition, the young characters learn that although a particular person may, in their minds, be deserving of punishment (Snape, Umbridge), they don't or won't always get it at that's something that Harry, et al will just have to live with. This is a particularly important lesson to be learned from these novels because it is something that can be shown to have an immediate parallel in real life.