The Trio At Privet Drive and More...

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The Trio At Privet Drive and More...

Post  Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:54 am

The Trio At Privet Drive and More...

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

Soul Search - Apr 5, 2006 3:33 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Jun 16, 2006 1:36 am
I was a little surprised that there is no thread specifically for Privet Drive (it isn't a magical place) nor for Arabella Figg. While I would like to start this thread with a specific observation, it might be a good place for ideas about what might happen when Ron and Hermione go to Privet Drive with Harry.

Arabella Figg is Harry's "batty old, cat obsessed neighbor." We learn in OotP that she is, in reality, a Squib and one of Dumbledore's Harry watchers.

From JKR's Text-Only website, Extra Stuff:

Characters, Crookshanks: "Crookshanks, as anybody who has read Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them will have guessed, is half Kneazle."

and in Squibs, she relates: "Arabella Figg does a roaring trade in cross-bred cats and Kneazles, ...

Now, when Hermione comes to Privet Drive, she will probably have Crookshanks. Harry will want to introduce them to Mrs. Figg. Will Mrs. Figg recognize Crookshanks as half-Kneazle, and tell Hermione. Perhaps she will even tell Hermione of the Kneazle's special abilities.

If this happens, watch out! Crookshanks will play an important role later in the book.

I added "and More ..." to the original title because the original post wandered into other areas and since then the discussion have covered additional grounds. - Kip 4/12/2006



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Last edited by Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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The Trio At Privet Drive and More... (Post 1 to 50)

Post  Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:57 am

Liz Mann - Apr 5, 2006 4:15 pm (#1 of 277)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
It's interesting that Hermione hasn't figured out about Crookshanks yet. Or maybe she has and J.K. just hasn't mentioned it.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Ron and Hermione go to Privet Drive - particuarly how the Dursleys will react when they find out.

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Finn BV - Apr 5, 2006 6:19 pm (#2 of 277)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Hmm… that would be an interesting meeting, between Hermione and Mrs. Figg.

I would really like to see Hermione vs. Aunt Petunia though. Ron, he's already been to 4PD (briefly, but he has). And where will Hermione sleep (hmm… if they spend the night!)?

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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 5, 2006 6:40 pm (#3 of 277)

I would like to see Ron, Hermione and especially Ginny's reaction when they see the cupboard under the stairs and that Harry had to live in there.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 5, 2006 6:53 pm (#4 of 277)

Choices, while not specifically stated in HBP it is implied in the last pages of HBP "I'm going back to the Dursleys' once more because, Dumbledore wanted me to,"...."You said to use once before," said Hermione quietly, that there was time to turn back if we wanted to. We've had time haven't we?" "We're with you whatever happens," said Ron. (HBP large print edition 526-528)

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Choices - Apr 5, 2006 7:02 pm (#5 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Yep, I got my book out and read that - that's why I deleted my post.

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Soul Search - Apr 5, 2006 7:04 pm (#6 of 277)

Finn BV, #4 does have a guest bedroom, usually for Aunt Marge.

The Dursleys will be apoplectic: TWO more wizards, another OWL, and a CAT in the house. And Ron and Hermione will be of age. They will make a point of that.

Could be some fun.

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Choices - Apr 5, 2006 7:08 pm (#7 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Even though Ron and Hermione may go there, I hardly think they will be staying with the Dursleys. I can see them going to meet Harry, helping him move his things out, and then going with him to the Burrow or Grimmauld Place - he has to leave his things somewhere while he pursues the Horcruxes.

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Soul Search - Apr 5, 2006 7:21 pm (#8 of 277)

Wonder if Harry will tell the Dursleys that Dumbledore is dead. He didn't tell them about Sirius. If he does, we might find out why Petunia seemed so upset when she discovered that Harry came of age at 17, rather than the 18 she had assumed.

Choices, Harry has to stay there for some (uncertain) number of days so the protections Dumbledore put on #4 will stay in effect until Harry's birthday at the end of July. That's why Dumbledore asked the Dursleys to allow Harry one more visit. If Harry stays, Ron and Hermione will stay.

Harry has spent most of his life at #4 Privet Drive for the protections his "mother's blood" provided. So far as we know, those protections have not been exercised.

Seems that something must happen at #4 between Harry's return and the end of July; otherwise, Harry living there, and all his suffering thereby, was a waste.

Seems that, with Dumbledore dead, Harry will be attacked as soon as he leaves Hogwarts ... for #4 Privet Drive.

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Finn BV - Apr 5, 2006 7:42 pm (#9 of 277)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Thanks, Soul Search.

This whole ancient magic thing is really confusing, we were discussing somewhere else (not sure where) the idea that DEs just stand outside 4PD, waiting for midnight on July 31. I think (and hope!) Harry will definitely realize he'll be even more of a target with DD dead (because he IS dead), and if he doesn't Hermione will chime in with this piece of important news.

How about the Order accompanies the trio and possibly Ginny to 4PD? Like bodyguards.

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Thom Matheson - Apr 5, 2006 8:24 pm (#10 of 277)

But at 12:01 couldn't Harry appariate from the house without going outside in order to get away from the Death Eaters? Once he is of age , he's good to go, right?

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Soul Search - Apr 5, 2006 9:23 pm (#11 of 277)

That's another thing. Harry goes from Hogwarts to #4 Privet Drive, to secure Dumbledore's protections until his birthday. But, he doesn't have to stay there until his birthday. Maybe just a week, or even a few days. As long as he can "call home the place where his mother's blood dwells." (Whether he wants to or not. Just can call it home.)

Well, what is going to bring him back to #4 Privet Drive from the time he leaves after his "after Hogwarts" visit, but before his birthday? Something like five or six weeks. It all seems a bit strange. Something is being foretold, but what!

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Liz Mann - Apr 6, 2006 4:00 am (#12 of 277)

Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think he'll stay there until his birthday because on his birthday the protection stops working. Harry, Ron and Hermione'll probably take advantage of the fact that they have a safe environment until then, and while they're there they can start plotting the hunt for the Horcruxes. Then they'll go to Bill and Fleur's wedding and then Godric's Hollow and then on the hunt.

I think the DEs probably will attack at midnight on Harry's birthday, and then it's a question of whether the trio can get away (appararating is a definite possibility) and also of whether or not the Dursleys get killed in the DEs anger.

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frogface - Apr 6, 2006 6:21 am (#13 of 277)

I'm worried for the Dursleys too. I think its pretty safe to say that Harry will surive past his birthday, but the Dursleys? They're cruel, arrogant and stupid, but they are people with lives all the same.

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Soul Search - Apr 6, 2006 6:49 am (#14 of 277)

Harry just may stay at Privet Drive until his birthday. I had a mindset that he would want to keep the visit as short as possible, but with Ron and Hermione there it will be less depressing. Maybe even pleasant.

Given its protections, it would be a good base of operations for horcrux hunting. Until his birthday, anyway.

The more I think of it, the more I like the idea of an extended stay at Privet Drive. The Dursleys will be raving!

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LooneyLuna - Apr 6, 2006 6:54 am (#15 of 277)

I also think that Harry is long overdue for a talk with his dear, Aunt Petunia. I'm hoping that Pet is in possession of certain items that will go to Harry when he comes of age. Hopefully, this new information/items he gets will help him start his Horcrux hunt.

And I think it will be a hoot with Ron and Hermione staying at Privet Drive. I can't wait to see Pet's expression when Ron makes it snow in the kitchen.

Do you think Harry will bring Kreacher with him? Do you think Dobby might follow Harry home? Imagine the Dursley's horror at seeing two fighting house elves! Hilarity ensues.
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Esther Rose - Apr 6, 2006 7:33 am (#16 of 277)

Edited Apr 6, 2006 8:10 am
Well, there is the side by side aparating thingy that might come into play between the time Harry goes to #4 Privet Drive until Harry's birthday. It may be that Harry sleeps at #4 Privet Drive but during the day (or at night) he is out Horcrux hunting.

We at least know that Hermione has her Aparating test and when Aparating and I would guess it is not known who has done the Aparation when traveling.

The fun might not just stop at Ron and Hermione. Imagine if all 6 (Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Neville, and Luna) showed up on #4 Privet Drive.

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Soul Search - Apr 6, 2006 8:09 am (#17 of 277)

If Harry stays at Privet Drive for a while, he is bound to have a lot of visitors. If nothing else, his guard will be more open and drop by to report, or whatever. The Dursleys will enjoy seeing Moody and Tonks, again.

Hagrid, of course, will drop by. He does know the way, since he took Harry there as a baby. Maybe he will travel by flying motorcycle again. The Dursleys will just love seeing Hagrid again. Dudley will be holding his bottom the whole time Hagrid is there.

Rufus Scrimgeour will be a frequent visitor, trying to recruit Harry. He will bring aurors, too.

Stan Shunpike will drop by, with the Knight Bus, to thank Harry for getting him released from Azkaban. The trio will use the bus to get around. Stan will know the way to Godric's Hollow.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 6, 2006 11:03 am (#18 of 277)

Why not just make Privet Drive the new headquarters for the Order complete with Fidelius Charm? Now wouldn't the Dursley's enjoy that (he he he).

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Choices - Apr 6, 2006 11:29 am (#19 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Actually, I think this discussion is getting dangerously close to being fan fiction. A lot is being assumed that has not been stated in canon. Harry has to go back to Privet Drive one more time. I don't think he has to stay until his birthday (although he could) - he has been absent for his birthday before - he just has to stay a short time to fulfill the requirements Dumbledore set forth. The Dursleys more or less have to take Harry in for that short time, but nothing says they have to have Ron or Hermione there too. I doubt Ron and Hermione would enjoy being some place where they were not liked or wanted - would be a bit awkward and we all know how unpleasant the Dursleys can be.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 6, 2006 12:02 pm (#20 of 277)

Choices, concerning the length of Harry's stays at 4PD is there any discernable pattern in regards to the length?

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Liz Mann - Apr 6, 2006 1:36 pm (#21 of 277)

Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
...but nothing says they have to have Ron or Hermione there too. I doubt Ron and Hermione would enjoy being some place where they were not liked or wanted - would be a bit awkward and we all know how unpleasant the Dursleys can be.

Ron said he and Hermione will go to Privet Drive with Harry, and the Dursleys can't exactly stop them, can they?

"We'll be there, Harry," said Ron.

"What?"

"At you aunt and uncle's house," said Ron.

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Choices - Apr 6, 2006 1:53 pm (#22 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
That can be interpreted in more than one way. It does not necessarily mean they will be bunking with Harry in his room. It may mean "we'll be there to help you move out - when you're ready to leave". I just can't see Ron and Hermione thrusting themselves on the Dursleys uninvited and I can't see the Dursleys graciously playing host to two more "strange and abnormal" wizards. They barely tolerate Harry, much less two of his freaky little friends.
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haymoni - Apr 6, 2006 2:00 pm (#23 of 277)

But what are they going to be able to do if Ron & Hermione DO show up??

I'm guessing it's just going to be a visit to help Harry get his things cleared out before the wedding.

Please, please, Hermione - have some sense to ask Pet some questions if Harry doesn't!!!!

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Choices - Apr 6, 2006 2:23 pm (#24 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Haymoni - "But what are they going to be able to do if Ron & Hermione DO show up??"

Well, knowing the Dursleys as we do, I'd say they would be very rude and might even slam the door in their faces, or not even open it at all. Look how Vernon treated Ron when he just telephoned!

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Neville Longbottom - Apr 6, 2006 3:33 pm (#25 of 277)

Maybe they will stay with Mrs Figg.

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haymoni - Apr 6, 2006 4:17 pm (#26 of 277)

Nice one, Neville!

I think the Dursleys might be rude, but they are still really afraid of magic.

One "Alohamora" and they'll be cowering in the living room with their backsides covered.

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Choices - Apr 6, 2006 6:11 pm (#27 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I do like the idea of them staying with Mrs. Figg. I think Crookshanks would like it there.

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Thom Matheson - Apr 6, 2006 8:22 pm (#28 of 277)

Choices I am with you on this. R and H staying with Harry is just way too farfetched for me. I see him staying long enough to really pin Petunia down as to what she knows of her sister's life and past and how it all relates to his future endevors. He has to plan, frankly the entire rest of his life, long or short as it may be. Making sure all his friends and family are ok and that sort of thing is right up Harry's "noble" alley. Making sure that the Dursley's are taken care of and out of danger will be a priority for Harry. He is after all a really nice guy. Then the wedding and finally, kick me, but I truly believe that he will head back to Hogwarts for his 7th year. No Death Eaters at the doorstep or any other trama. The real problems and I think answers as well, will lie at the point of beginning, Hogwarts.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 7, 2006 1:00 am (#29 of 277)

Choices and Thom, I agree with you both about both Hermione and Ron staying with Harry. I do see something more major than just Petunia spilling the beans. I'm not sure all the Dursley's will come out alive as what better place to attack Harry after his birthday than at Privett Drive?

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Soul Search - Apr 7, 2006 7:34 am (#30 of 277)

I am suspicious of a number of canon hints that something momentous will happen early in book seven and at Privet Drive.

Harry has had to suffer the Dursleys and living at Privet Drive for sixteen years, yet, as far as we know, he has never needed the protections he derived from staying "where his mother's blood dwells." Bit of a waste if nothing ever happens there.

In the graveyard scene in GoF, Voldemort makes a point of the protections Harry has had at Privet Drive. He even suggests that, as Vapormort, he has tested those protections. So, Voldemort knows Harry was living at Privet Drive and he knows the nature of the protections Dumbledore provided. He probably knows that the protections end when Harry comes of age.

The dementor attack in OotP establishes that Privet Drive is not perfectly safe. True, it was Umbridge, rather than Voldemort or DEs, directing the dementors, but the idea of an attack on Privet Drive is established.

Early in HBP Dumbledore actually visits Privet Drive; first time since he dumped Harry there. He makes two points: that Harry will return to Privet once more, and that his protections end when he turns seventeen. The Dursleys really didn't need to learn this. Harry has always returned to Privet Drive after school, and the Dursleys assumed Harry would come of age at eighteen. Harry should know this, but why were the Dursleys included? I am suspicious.

At the end of HBP, Harry makes a point that he would be returning to Privet Drive, and Ron and Hermione insist that they will be with him. Bit of a setup, I think.

HBP breaks a five-book precedent by ending with Harry at Hogwarts, rather than on his return to Privet Drive. I think this was done so that Book Seven can start with the Trio's arrival at Privet Drive.

Any more canon clues supporting momentous events at Privet Drive? Any ideas as to what will happen?

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Magic Words - Apr 7, 2006 9:38 am (#31 of 277)

Of interest to me are Dumbledore's last words to the Dursleys as he and Harry set off for Slughorn's - "until we meet again," or something very close to that. Was he planning another visit that he never had the chance to make, or has he already been there during Harry's sixth year?

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haymoni - Apr 7, 2006 9:48 am (#32 of 277)

I would guess that Dumbledore planned on escorting Harry out of the Dursleys himself, when Harry became of age.

There is no way he would leave that to anyone else.

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Soul Search - Apr 7, 2006 10:03 am (#33 of 277)

Good pickup, Magic Words. I missed the possible significance of Dumbledore's parting statement. It isn't much, but I think there is some canon that can help us suggest some good possibilities.

Petunia's reaction to learning that Harry "comes of age" at seventeen, rather than eighteen, is a little out of place, unless there is something she has been tasked to do when Harry comes of age. My read is that either Lily tasked her as executrix for the Potter estate or Dumbledore tasked her with something in the letter he left on the door step with Harry. I tend to favor the letter alternative.

Now, Dumbledore returning to the Dursleys (he was gone from Hogwarts a lot) to give Petunia some information or heirlooms to give to Harry makes sense. Dumbledore did have the cloak; maybe he was holding more of Harry's Potter inheritance. This especially works if Dumbledore expected to die before Harry's birthday.

We can only guess as to what he could have given Petunia.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Good thought, haymoni. I tend to agree, considering how Dumbledore micromanaged Harry's life.

I wonder if Dumbledore made arrangements for the Order to take the responsibility for Harry's safe departure from Privet Drive.

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Choices - Apr 7, 2006 10:03 am (#34 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Soul Search - "Harry has had to suffer the Dursleys and living at Privet Drive for sixteen years, yet, as far as we know, he has never needed the protections he derived from staying "where his mother's blood dwells." Bit of a waste if nothing ever happens there."

I think the very fact that Harry seems never to have needed the protections is a tribute to the effectiveness of the protection. The charms and spells protecting Harry at Privet Drive have worked so well that Harry has never known a threat there - other than the dementors in the alley, but that was away from the actual 4 Privet Drive house and property.

Knowing how cruel and unloving Petunia/the Dursleys have been to Harry, I doubt that Dumbledore would entrust her/them with anything of value - sentimental or otherwise - belonging, or to be given, to Harry. He trusted her once to give Harry that letter and tell him all about his parents and his wizard identity and Petunia/the Dursleys failed miserably to do even that simple task. If Harry has any items that he has inherited from his family, I think Dumbledore would entrust them to someone who is more caring of Harry - like the Weasleys.
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Neville Longbottom - Apr 7, 2006 10:51 am (#35 of 277)

What I find interesting about Dumbledore's statement is, that he seemed to expect to see the Dursleys again. I wouldn't be all that surprised, if it was foreshadowing that they *will* actually see each other again, and that the Dursleys will be much happier about this, than they currently think.

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Choices - Apr 7, 2006 10:57 am (#36 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Interesting thought Neville. I would love for Dumbledore to be around to see the Dursleys again.

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Soul Search - Apr 7, 2006 12:02 pm (#37 of 277)

Choices,

"The charms and spells protecting Harry at Privet Drive have worked so well ..."

Your are right, but I still think there will be a dramatic play after the protections expire. By the way, I think there have been two examples of the protections working:

The first is established by Voldemort's admitting knowledge of the protections, mentioned in the GoF graveyard scene. He obviously tried something and was thwarted.

The second comes in OotP, when Harry is discovered hiding outside the window. Vernon starts choking Harry, then receives an electric shock. My read is that the shock was from Dumbledore's protections.

"Knowing how cruel and unloving Petunia/the Dursleys have been to Harry ..."

They certainly have been cruel, and haven't carried out Dumbledore's instructions. However, I still think Petunia was tasked with something for Harry coming of age and, if there was anything more to give him, he would give it to Petunia. He is over-trusting.

His visit, and including the Dursleys in the discussion, might have even been an extension of his "Remember my last, Petunia" howler in OotP: making sure Petunia will live up to his instructions.

All this supports the contention that Dumbledore knew he wouldn't be around for Harry's seventeenth birthday.

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haymoni - Apr 7, 2006 1:23 pm (#38 of 277)

I'm guessing that once Pet knows that Harry will be out of her house for good, she will probably give him anything that has to do with magic, Dumbledore, Lily, etc. because she won't want anything like that in her house.

Maybe THEN we'll know the contents of the letter!

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TheSaint - Apr 7, 2006 4:38 pm (#39 of 277)

Maybe...the house he is supposed to be out of isn't the Dursley's at all! Maybe it is Harry's! What if his parent's owned Privet? Maybe the Dursley's were allowed to stay there. I always thought Vernon's reaction to Harry's being left a house was interesting. What if he is so shocked because Harry now has two! What a hoot that would be! Pet would have to give up her sparkling home...to Harry!

Clues to Privet...Do you remember the first mention of splinching? Harry has a vision of an eye and a leg left on Privet? Interestingly enough, Mad-Eyes artificial parts.

I doubt Ron and Hermione would need to go to the door. They could apparate directly into Harry's room whenever they felt like it. They could even sleep in thier own beds..or Hermione could anyway.

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Eponine - Apr 8, 2006 9:39 am (#40 of 277)

I have a theory concerning Privet Drive.

I agree with Soul Search that it's strange (IMO) that we've had the idea of the protection at 4PD drilled into us, but we've never really seen it in action.

My theory is that Harry will return to 4PD (with or without Ron and Hermione), stay for a bit, and then leave thinking he's done with the place forever. But I think something will happen that will force him to a place where he knows he's protected (4PD), and he'll have to go back.

I have 2 reasons for this. 1. The protection thing. It's there, and we've been repeatedly reminded of it, but we've never seen it. It's like the gun on the table to me. 2. When Sirius was trapped in 12GP and Harry thought about how much he would hate it if he was forced to return to 4PD once he was free of the place.

I used to think that the Trio would return to 4PD to ride out an attack, and that it would be great drama if it came right before Harry's birthday. *Will the protection suddenly stop? Ooh, scary!* And that Petunia would do something magical to protect her family after Harry's protection ended, but Jo shot down the Petunia performing magic theory. Oh, well.

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frogface - Apr 8, 2006 10:21 am (#41 of 277)

I suppose the theory could still work if you replace Petunia with Figgy

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TheSaint - Apr 8, 2006 6:17 pm (#42 of 277)

What if Lily is at 4 Privet..her ashes? Where her blood resides.... Nah! Pet would have thrown them out with the trash.

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Soul Search - Apr 9, 2006 8:41 am (#43 of 277)

Eponine, I have had similar thoughts. The Trio will go to #4 Privet Drive, but not stay long, and then have to return before Harry's seventeenth birthday for the protections provided. I agree that Sirius' comment in OotP about returning to #12 Grimmauld Place is a strong hint for the Harry returning to Privet Drive scenario.

Without Dumbledore micromanaging his life, Harry will have to decide where he goes after his short stay at #4 Privet Drive. We have a few possibiltites.

The Burrow -- Harry would be welcome, but there would be difficulties. Molly would make horcrux hunting difficult; she has a "head in the sand" attitude about Harry and her kids that would be quite annoying. Also, Ginny would be there, more difficulties for Harry. The MoM provided security for Harry's Christmas stay, but Rufus Scrimgeour would want an unacceptable quid pro quo from Harry to provide protections again.

Hogwarts -- A good choice, and a good place as a base for horcrux hunting. Other topics have already disussed the possibility that at least one horcrux is already there. Permission to stay might depend on who is appointed headmaster. I think the Trio will spend some time at Hogwarts.

Hermione's House -- We haven't seen much of Hermione's parents and her house would have no protections. Staying there over long could prove very risky to them. But, Hermione hasn't spent much time at home since the summer between CoS and PoA. A short stay would not be surprising.

Hotels -- The Leaky Cauldron, Hogs Head, and Three Broomsticks all have rooms for rent, but, no protections, what-so-ever. They might spend a night or two at one or more of these, however. The horcrux hunt might involve Diagon Alley or Knockturn Alley. Staying at the Hog's Head might be a reason to discover the barman's identity.

#12 Grimmauld Place -- A likely choice, even though the place will have unpleasant memories for Harry. We do know the horcrux hunt will involve Grimmauld Place. Also, confirming the identity of R.A.B may mean asking Regulus' mother about his middle name. There are other clues, like the wizarding genealogy book, dragon's blood, and other trinkets, that may have some interest. The Trio will spend some time at #12, just not sure how long.

The most dire scenario I have is that they leave Privet Drive, travel a bit, and go to the wedding. The wedding is attacked in force by DEs, and/or Voldemort, and the Trio has to escape to Privet Drive for its protections. Bad news.

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Choices - Apr 9, 2006 10:03 am (#44 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Who exactly knows about the wedding that would spill the beans to Voldemort and the DE's? I don't think I can come up with anyone.

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Soul Search - Apr 9, 2006 1:03 pm (#45 of 277)

Choices, I can't think of anyone, specifically, but I find it hard to believe that in the roughly a year from the time we find about the wedding to the actual event, that some DE wouldn't overhear a mention of it. After all, it appears it might be the event of the season.

Many of the Order would be invited. Arthur would invite a few friends from the Ministry. Hogwart's students probably heard of it, especially since Fleur had been there.

There might have even been an announcement (in the Quibbler?)

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Choices - Apr 9, 2006 5:17 pm (#46 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I just wonder how many of Molly and Arthur's friends hang out socially with DE's or Voldemort? My guess would be none. Wizards and witches don't seem to socialize like Muggles do. It is interesting that the Diggory and the Lovegood families live fairly close to the Weasleys, but neither the kids nor the adults seem to have socialized with each other. Molly and Arthur invite Lupin and Tonks to their home and they know Order members and fellow MOM workers (like Diggory and Shacklebolt), but their friendships do not seem to be extensive. Considering the state of the Weasley finances, however improved of late, I do not see the wedding as being the social event of the season. I believe it will be a small affair with a few very close and trusted friends in attendance.

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Soul Search - Apr 9, 2006 5:43 pm (#47 of 277)

Choices, you might be right about the size of the wedding. Fleur did seem to be settling for just two bridesmaids.

I hope you are right and the wedding is uneventful.

In that event, we have to come up with another scenario for Harry returning to Privet Drive for its protections.

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Solitaire - Apr 9, 2006 9:57 pm (#48 of 277)

Choices, I'm betting Snape knows about the wedding. Whether or not he will spill to Voldemort depends on his true loyalties ... which are currently in question (for some of us).

As to Harry & Co. using 4PD as a base for Horcrux-hunting, I do not see this taking place until after his birthday, when he can apparate on his own. I do not think Harry will want to be dependent on anyone as relatively inexperienced as himself for a fast getaway in this quest.

Regarding Harry's protection at 4PD, I think it has been tested, even though we may not know just exactly how or when. Consider Voldemort's statement to Harry in GoF:

"But how to get at Harry Potter? For he has been better protected than I think even he knows, protected in ways devised by Dumbledore long ago, when it fell to him to arrange the boy's future. Dumbledore invoked an ancient magic, to ensure the boy's protection as long as he is in his relations' care. Not even I can touch him there ..."

How would he know, if he had not tried ... or had someone else try for him?

Solitaire

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Magic Words - Apr 10, 2006 7:43 am (#49 of 277)

It could be that JKR was never planning to display for us the protections at 4PD, she just needed a logical explanation for why there never was an attack there and why Harry needed to live there. Otherwise it would have been a huge plot hole.

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Soul Search - Apr 11, 2006 5:16 pm (#50 of 277)

There is something to Magic Words suggestion that the protections were a storyline device to justify Harry staying at #4 Privet Drive.

Afer all, the "Cinderella" plot mechanism wouldn't work if Harry had lived a good life with a wizarding family.

Now that I think of it, the "Cinderella" plot occurs at the beginning of each book: Harry is miserable, then escapes to wonderful Hogwarts. We readers look forward to Harry's escape from Privet Drive, and any discomfort to the Dursleys. We haven't been disappointed yet.

I still suspect Harry will need the #4 Privet Drive protections, especially since Dumbledore made a point of Harry returning one more time to keep them in effect until his seventeenth birthday.

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The Trio At Privet Drive and More... (Post 51 to 100)

Post  Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:58 am

Thom Matheson - Apr 11, 2006 8:59 pm (#51 of 277)
Perhaps the simplest explanation is that because nothing extraordinary happened there, was in fact, because of the protections. Nothing bad happened because it couldn't. In this case less was better.

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Solitaire - Apr 12, 2006 1:37 pm (#52 of 277)

I agree, Thom ... I think. Just because nothing bad happened doesn't mean nothing was attempted. It may have been, but the protections could have prevented any attacks from being carried out. JM2K, of course ...

Solitaire

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Deb Zawacki - Apr 13, 2006 5:39 pm (#53 of 277)

I think it would be funny to find out that the Durselys use Drs. Granger as their dentists....and Hermione recognizes them from the office or something. . . .

Since Hermione has fixed her teeth and can look quite nice when she wants--I bet Dudley gets a crush on her and Ron gets all up in Dudley's face about it.

But seriously I think it would be so cool and touching if Petunia takes HArry out for lunch or a drive and talks to him away from the house and there is this touching scene where Harry sees the similarity in appearance or something. . . . I think a scene like that is overdue.

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Choices - Apr 13, 2006 5:46 pm (#54 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Deb - "But seriously I think it would be so cool and touching id Petunia takes HArry out for lunch or a drive and talks to him away from the house and there is this touching scene where Harry sees the similarity in appearance or something. . . . I think a scene like that is overdue."

LOL Don't hold your breath!!

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Deb Zawacki - Apr 13, 2006 6:12 pm (#55 of 277)

Sorry I'm a hopeless romantic and I just want to believe that at least Petunia could have some redeeming qualities--she IS Lily's sister and is probably scared out of her mind as it is. For all we know she may blame Harry in some way for her sister's death--especially since he looks so much like his father...and he has his mother's eyes--surely Petunia sees that. Harry may be a painful reminder of her sister--Petunia must have felt some loss, some grief when she realized her sister was dead--it HAD to be shock even if she acted so hateful about it. Plus, she has an infant of her own and here is this new baby--who was probably sweeter and less fussy than her own. I'm sure there is a lot there.

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Choices - Apr 13, 2006 6:25 pm (#56 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I'm with you, Deb. I would love to see Petunia turn out to be good. How could she resist loving that precious little Harry? How could see look into that adorable little face and treat him so badly? I would love to see her grab him up and give him a huge hug, but I just don't think it is going to happen.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 13, 2006 7:07 pm (#57 of 277)

If Hermione and Ron the accompany Harry to 4PD and the Dursleys mistreat Harry that Ron may lash out at one or more of the Dursleys. Ron is quick to anger.

J.K. Rowling has said that Ron’s Patronus is a Jack Russell Terrier, this is interesting because, Fantatic Beasts and Where to Find Them (FB) defines Crups, in the following way:

MoM Classification - XXX The Crup originated in southeast of England It closely resembles a Jack Russell terrier, except for the forked tail. The Crups is almost certainly a wizard-created dog, as it is intensely loyal to wizards and ferocious toward Muggles. It is a great scavenger, eating anything from gnomes to old tyres. Crup licenses may be obtained from the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magic creatures on completion of a simple test to prove that the applicant wizard is capable of controlling the Crup in Muggle-inhabited areas. Crup owners are legally obliged to remove the Crup's tail with a painless Severing Charm while the Crups is six to eight weeks old, lest Muggles notice it.(FB pages 8-9).

Note: In the text of Fantastic Beasts that has been published, it is noted that the MoM uses a five tiered classification system, when classifying beasts.

X - Boring.
XX - Harmless, may be domesticated.
XXX - Competent wizard should be able to cope.
XXXX - Dangerous, requires specialist knowledge, skilled wizard may handle.
XXXXX - Known wizard killer, impossible to train or domesticate. Note: anything that Hagrid likes. (FB xxii)

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Soul Search - Apr 14, 2006 8:22 am (#58 of 277)

This topic was opened with the suggestion that the trio would be at #4 Privet Drive, Hermione would bring Crookshanks, and that Mrs. Figg, who "... does a roaring trade in cross-bred cats and Kneazles, ...," would inform Hermione of Crookshanks special abilities.

We know from "Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them" that kneazles are a"... very intelligent cat-like creature (that) can detect unsavory or suspicious persons ... ." We also have learned that the kneazle can "... lead its master safely home if lost."
These abilities are confirmed in PoA, "The Servant of Lord Voldemort." Sirus says of Crookshanks "He's the most intelligent of his kind I've ever met. He recognized Peter for what he was right away" (Unsavory and suspicious.) and "Crookshanks leapt lightly off the bed and led the way out of the room, ..." (Leading everyone "home," even though not quite necessary.)

The idea that Crookshanks will play a role in book seven is supported by a question on the WOMBAT test:

"22. Which of the following small creatures would you CHOOSE to accompany you on a perilous journey? a. Augurey, b. Crup, c. Jarvey, d. Kneazle, e. Murtlap, f. Niffler, g. Runespoor."
The mention of "perilous journey" and "Kneazle" is highly suspicious. Harry and the trio will certainly have some perilous journeys. Will their visit to #4 Privet Drive turn out to be the first of their "perilous journeys?"

How much will Crookshanks help?


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Nathan Zimmermann - Apr 14, 2006 8:39 am (#59 of 277)

Soul Search, I agree their journey from 4PD will be perilous. The point I brought up simply that Ron is quick to anger and it may force yet another premature departure unless Hermione and Harry can effectively contain Ron's anger.

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The One - Apr 14, 2006 3:12 pm (#60 of 277)

Open minded sceptic
You all seems to take for granted that both Ron and Hermione will arrive at Privet Drive. Do we now this? In the two first books, Harry meets Ron before he meets Harmione. Since then he meets both of them at the same time, more or less. We still have not seen Harry meet Hermione alone early in the books. This may be the books wher it happens.

And note one thing: Hermione may apparate to Privet Drive in order to meet up with Harry, Ron still has not got his license.

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Deb Zawacki - Apr 14, 2006 4:58 pm (#61 of 277)

Well I imagine they will pick him up--if they do--and proceed to the apparition testing site because HArry will need to have that taken care of----

Also I was thinking that Harry has not really had a LOT of luck battling the baddies--his spells against DE were only partially effective--he couldn't outgun Bella or Snape--so i hope he gets some kind of "stealth or strength" training becasue otherwise he won't be strong enough and right now he is fueled by hatred and a thirst for vengeance-- yes he has grown but we have still failed to see him control and focus his powers effectively.

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Soul Search - Apr 16, 2006 8:41 am (#62 of 277)

Agreed, Deb Zawacki, but we also saw Harry overpower Voldemort in the GoF graveyard scene. It seems that Harry performs best under pressure; there have been a number of examples of Harry going beyond his normal abilities when pushed.

Harry protecting his friends and the Dursleys during a confrontation at #4 Privet Drive may well be the first of many more examples of Harry rising to the occasion in book seven.

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Choices - Apr 16, 2006 10:34 am (#63 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think if truth be known, Harry would have been in a heap of trouble had not the Priori Incantatum occurred in the graveyard. Harry has been incredibly lucky in his encounters with Voldemort. I think he might have met with a very sticky end had it not been for luck and Dumbledore/Fawkes/friends looking out for him. I hope Dumbledore has delegated someone (Snape?) to look out for Harry from here on out and I hope his luck holds!!!

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The One - Apr 16, 2006 2:15 pm (#64 of 277)

Open minded sceptic
It is very true that Harry had been in very bi trouble if not the Priori Incantatum had happened. But when it did happen there was a fight of wills fought on equal terms that Harry won fair and square.

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Deb Zawacki - Apr 16, 2006 3:00 pm (#65 of 277)

I still hope that over the summer he can master occlumency-and create some kind of spell--perhaps with his friends--kind of a Mod-Squad meets the Charmed Ones Power of Three deal.

If the defeat required the uniting of powers of the three--or the still-loyal DA, what would each bring to the mix--?

Hermione has obvious brains and cleverness with spells, charms and potions Harry has his dark arts and flying Ron has bravery and strategy

Neville------what could herbology contribute Luna-------a knowledge of the absurd and pyschic talents Ginny------strength, powerful hex ability

Will Draco turn up in the end and add the last bit of jolt needed?

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Neville Longbottom - Apr 16, 2006 3:39 pm (#66 of 277)

I think Herbology could contribute a lot, for example if one of the Horcruxes is be protected by a dangerous plant ot something. But I don't think Neville will accompany the Trio on the Horcrux hunt, nor will anyone else, except possibly Crookshanks (who has to show his half kneazle abilities). IMO the others will help, but they will help regarding the war in geenral, not the Horcrux search specifically.

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Die Zimtzicke - May 8, 2006 4:01 pm (#67 of 277)

I think Harry will go back, and that Ron and Hemrione will see him there, somehow, maybe through visits, but I highly doubt that they will all live with the Dursleys for the whole time Harry is there, even if it is short.

I wouldn't be surprised if the place is attacked as soon as the protection wears off and Harry winds up having to rescue the Dursleys. He doesn't like them, but I don't think he hates them enough to want them dead.

Maybe since Dumbledore talked about #12 in front of the Dursleys, Harry could take them there if Privet Drive is attacked?

I don't want anyone on the Horcrux hunt except the trio, though. If Ginny, Luna or Neville goes, then the whole group of six should go, in my opinion. But I'd rather just have the trio.

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SilverMoonLady - May 18, 2006 1:11 pm (#68 of 277)

In regards to the lifting of the protections on #4, I remember thinking at the end of HBP that however long Harry spent there, it would be best if he made sure to be seen somewhere else before his birthday or the Dursleys would be a prime target. After all, Voldemort and the DEs make it a habit of attacking people's loved ones, and they may not be aware of how antagonistic the relationships in that house really are; not saying that Harry wouldn't care, he would, he is a good person, after all - in fact that is why he would make sure that it wouldn't happen. I interpreted Ron & Hermione's words that they would 'be there', to mean that they had absolutely no intention of letting Harry face anything, including the Dursleys, without some back-up. While they might not stay at #4, they might certainly be frequent visitors, and certainly part of any escort there and away again. I don't know about headquartering there, though... I like Hogwarts or Grimmauld Place better for it, though anyplace that Snape is familiar with might be suspect, even if he is still faithful to Dumbledore; certainly Bellatrix would want to reclaim Grimmauld, or at least take her ire out on it (and find anything left behind to use agains the Order). And it makes sense that this stay, at least initially, will be the shortest one yet! I'd imagine Harry probably will indeed ask Petunia some hard questions about his mother, resist the urge to verbally blast them for their neglect, and maybe even advise them that a vacation might be healthy. (Don't ask me why, but I get this image that everyone in the wizarding world with even a lick of sense would be shoring up defenses, hiding their relatives, banding together or scattering - nothing supports this though, just my gut! *grin*)

I forget who mentioned this, about Harry being a doubly painful reminder for Petunia of her sister and her husband because of his looks, particularly his having Lily's eyes, and that being large in her motivation for treating him the way she has. This rings very true, in emotional terms. I quite agree!

Sil

blushing at the length of that post*

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haymoni - May 18, 2006 1:25 pm (#69 of 277)

Wormtail could have told Voldy that there is no love lost between Harry & the Dursleys. He was there on the first train ride to Hogwarts when Harry told Ron about having to wear Dudley's old clothes and having no proper birthdays.

Snape saw the whole Ripper incident.

I just don't think anything is going to happen to Pet because of Harry.

I think she may be AFRAID that something will happen, but I don't think anyone is going to bother them after Harry leaves.

Unless he sends Kreacher there to help Pet out....

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SilverMoonLady - May 18, 2006 1:37 pm (#70 of 277)

"Unless he sends Kreacher there to help Pet out.... "

Oooh, I like *that* idea!!

True enough, there are ways LV could have found out about the discord at #4; then again, it might make it even more painful to put their lives in the balance, perhaps as a choice between them and something Harry more obviously desires (one of his friends' safety/a much needed item, etc). Can you imagine the poor guy having to decide between Dudley getting dementor Kissed or giving up a horcrux he has just struggled to find?

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Greyback Hunter - May 19, 2006 10:48 am (#71 of 277)

I expect that we will see Book 7 open with a battle at Privet Drive between Harry and Voldemort. Think about it. Harry has faced Voldemort, in one form or another, five time in the series thus far. Twice in PS/SS and once in every other book except POA and HBP. JKR has indicated through her characters that seven is the most magical of numbers therefore why not have Harry face Voldemort a total of seven times. The way I see it, sometime after midnight on Harry's birthday Voldemort will appear at Privet Drive probably with a few choice deatheaters in tow. (The protection that Dumbledore has set for Harry there will have expired.) They will battle Harry, Ron and Hermione and the trio will just barley escape. That would set up even more tension for the final battle between Harry and Voldemort in the climax of the book. It would also mean that the final battle would be the seventh battle between the two and would make it that much more significant. Who knows, during the Privet Drive battle we could see Mrs. Figg disclosed as the character who will discover magical powers late in life. She could use those newly discovered powers to help Harry out of a tight spot when dueling with Voldemort, of course this would mean that Voldemort would probably kill her but she would go down fighting. Harry, meanwhile, would be able to escape and prepare for the final battle.

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Regan of Gong - Jun 29, 2006 3:41 am (#72 of 277)

Self declared doctor of everything.
If there has been a discussion or part thereof regarding my post, directions to it would be appreciated.

I've just started re-reading PoS and was reading the last bit of The Letters from No one where Harry is counting down until his 11th birthday. Exactly when he gets to 0, Hagrid knocks on the door to deliver the best, most life changing news of his life.

I was thinking if this would happen on his 17th birthday. Right as he gets down to zero, Death Eaters or otherwise storm the house. It seemed these two big events should be connected in a way, as they are both going to heavily influence Harry's life.

That is all. Did some searching, but couldn't find anything on what I've thought. Sorry if this is redundant.

Regan

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haymoni - Jun 29, 2006 5:59 am (#73 of 277)

That's why I thought apparating was going to be a big deal for Harry. He's got to learn to do it and do it well so he can get out of there.

Will the DEs come rampaging at midnight? I'm guessing they can just apparate into #4 as well.

Hah! Maybe the Trio needs to do Side-along Apparation with The Dursleys! There are 3 of them and 3 Dursleys. I'm guessing Harry gets stuck with Vernon!

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virginiaelizabeth - Jun 29, 2006 11:07 am (#74 of 277)

SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
That's an intresting idea ahymoni about apparation. I see that as an easy way to brong them all to safety, I mean the Dursley's are awful but I'm not so sure death would be the way Jo would go. I think it'd be pretty ironic if magic ends up saving their lives....might even bring about a change in Petunia and vernon's "no magic" philosophy.

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TheSaint - Jun 29, 2006 4:08 pm (#75 of 277)

I do love the thought of them apparating the Dursley's to Grimmauld. I doubt the magic used to save them would change thier minds..it is magic that put them in danger in the first place.

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sere35 - Jun 29, 2006 6:58 pm (#76 of 277)

I always imagined that Ron and Hermione would just apparated into Harry's bedroom with one of those magical tents from Goblet of Fire, and set that up in his bedroom. That way they can stay in there and the Durleys dont even have to know their there.

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shepherdess - Jun 29, 2006 8:13 pm (#77 of 277)

55 year old mother of 3, step-mother of 2, grandmom to 3, living in Oklahoma
I think it'd be pretty ironic if magic ends up saving their lives....might even bring about a change in Petunia and vernon's "no magic" philosophy.

I think it's pretty ironic that the Dursley's even have a "no magic" philosophy, considering that magic has already been protecting them since the day they took Harry in.

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Katrina Nadja Romanoff - Jun 30, 2006 2:34 am (#78 of 277)

I just can see Hermione bringing her computer to the Dursleys in Harry's room, then they all look for information about the Horcruxes all over the net and Ron hardly understands what's going on.

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haymoni - Jun 30, 2006 7:25 am (#79 of 277)

sere35 - I like that! Staying at #4 right under Pet's nose! Hah!

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Pamzter - Jul 1, 2006 4:08 pm (#80 of 277)

Two thoughts:

1. I'm wondering if Aunt Petunia has either a physical item or a piece of information that she is to deliver to Harry when he comes of age - something she was instructed to do when she took him in.

2. Since it would seem out of character that Dumbledore would knowingly endanger the Dursleys, there must be some sort of protection for them that will go in to effect at that time.

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Mediwitch - Jul 1, 2006 9:25 pm (#81 of 277)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Hi Pamzter -

There has been some speculation that the squeeky step Harry makes note of several times is indeed hiding an item or items that might be important to Harry (i.e. Lily's wand, etc.). It's just speculation, but interesting, given that Jo has Harry hide things under the loose floorboard in his room, providing something of a parallel.

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Katrina Nadja Romanoff - Jul 2, 2006 1:16 am (#82 of 277)

Petunia may know something very important but she probabably won't tell harry anything as she had never tell him he was a wizard untill Hagrid's arrive.

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Weeny Owl - Jul 4, 2006 2:51 am (#83 of 277)

Do we know that Hermione even has a computer? Considering electronics don't work at Hogwarts, a computer might not be of much help since she would be using it only a couple of months each year. Even so, if Horcruxes are that much of a secret, there probably wouldn't be anything online anyway. Also, JKR seems to prefer more old-fashioned methods of communication, so her having Hermione using a computer just doesn't seem to fit.

If there is an attack at Privet Drive, I cannot imagine any of the Dursleys showing any gratitude whatsoever at being saved; rather, I see them blaming Harry for the attack in the first place. Vernon wanted to throw Harry out over the dementor issue after all.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 4, 2006 7:20 am (#84 of 277)

Well they could always pinch Dudley's computer, I'm sure he's got one.

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Choices - Jul 4, 2006 8:48 am (#85 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Lupin was fighting in the death chamber in the DOM and as far as we know there were no werewolves there. Now Lupin has gone underground to spy on the werewolves led by Fenrir Grayback - since none of them were at the battle in the MOM, I doubt they would know of Lupin. Fenrir seems to me to be not a DE, but just working in conjunction with them.

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haymoni - Jul 4, 2006 1:23 pm (#86 of 277)

Yeah - like a leech.

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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 5, 2006 6:40 am (#87 of 277)

Correct me if I'm wrong,but didn't JKR say that wizards have a better method of finding out info rather than a computer?

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Magic Words - Jul 5, 2006 8:53 am (#88 of 277)

Sure. It's called Hermione.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 5, 2006 9:30 am (#89 of 277)

LOL Magic Words! As a librarian permit me to add Hermione and a Library! LPO

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Geber - Jul 6, 2006 9:19 pm (#90 of 277)

Ron and Hermione are old enough to do magic out-of-school. I suggest that there will be another water shortage, and Ron and Hermione will be allowed to stay at Privet Drive in exchange for using their wands to water the lawn in the middle of the night. Ron will stay in Harry's room and Hermione will stay in the guest room.

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haymoni - Jul 7, 2006 6:40 am (#91 of 277)

Yes! The hose-pipe ban!!!

Very good, Geber!

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Solitaire - Jul 7, 2006 11:04 am (#92 of 277)

I'm not sure I see Ron and Hermione staying at Privet Drive. I'd be surprised if they were even allowed to visit. It is still Uncle Vernon's house, Harry is still not legally an adult, and Ron and Hermione are hardly Dumbledore. I don't think Uncle Vernon would hesitate to prevent them from entering or toss them out if they attempted to enter. JM2K ...

Solitaire

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Choices - Jul 7, 2006 11:06 am (#93 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I totally agree Solitaire. I think when they said they'ed be there at Privet Drive, they meant when Harry is ready to leave they would be there to go with him, not that they would be staying there with him.

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haymoni - Jul 7, 2006 11:50 am (#94 of 277)

What could Vernon possibly do to them?

"Do I need to take out my wand, Mr. Dursley???"

I could see Hermione being clever enough to cause a scene in the front yard so that Pet & Vernon would HAVE to take them inside before the neighbors see.

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Solitaire - Jul 7, 2006 11:48 pm (#95 of 277)

I do not believe Hermione would pull a wand on the Dursleys, because she knows they would get into trouble if they did anything to Muggles. The only way I think Uncle Vernon would allow of the young wizards into the house is if they were his only protection against some external threat. As I said, Ron and Hermione are not Dumbledore. He had a sense of presence and authority that even Uncle V. could not deny ... or defy.

Solitaire

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 8, 2006 1:35 am (#96 of 277)

Also, I'm not sure he'd want to see Ron in his house after his last visit with Fred, George and his father (Ton Tounge Toffee anyone?).

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virginiaelizabeth - Jul 8, 2006 2:29 pm (#97 of 277)

SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I could see Hermione and Ron pulling out wands to get inside. They wouldn't have to do anything to the Dursley's other than show them a simple spell (proving that they are allowed to use magic) to get inside. Hermione: Let us in! Vernon: NO! Hermione: augumenti! Vernon: runs away screaming..... Hermione: ok let's go! Ron: Good thinking there!

There doesn't have to be a threat of any kind, the Dursley's are terrified of magic in any form so it wouldn't be hard for Ron and Hermione to get in.

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TheSaint - Jul 8, 2006 2:31 pm (#98 of 277)

Why do all that...they can just apparate straight to his room and avoid the Dursley's all together.

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Catherine - Jul 8, 2006 5:03 pm (#99 of 277)

Canon Seeker
True, they could.

Though it would be discourteous by the wizard etiquette that Dumbledore explained in HbP-- that wizards should be able to choose who enters their homes.

I would hope that Muggles could expect the same courtesy. In the case of Petunia and Vernon, at least an announcement of intention should suffice.

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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2006 6:03 pm (#100 of 277)

Hermione alone probably wouldn't have to threaten. Unlike Ron, she is not "Muggle-challenged" and would know how to behave appropriately until she is out of earshot (or eyesight) of the Dursleys.

Solitaire

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The Trio At Privet Drive and More... (Post 101 to 150)

Post  Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:00 am

TheSaint - Jul 8, 2006 7:56 pm (#101 of 277)
Catherine, that would be respectful.

Respect however, is earned, and the Dursley's treatment of Harry over the years has earned them anything but. I think popping into Harry's room without thier knowledge thus avoiding the whole hideous, then-we-will-just-have-to-hex-you-scene, is more than appropriate.

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geauxtigers - Jul 8, 2006 10:07 pm (#102 of 277)

Yum!
Assuming that you can apparate into 4PD with all those protections. Then again Harry will be 17, so that would mean its gone.... thinking outloud here...

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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2006 10:20 pm (#103 of 277)

Well, we don't know just which protections will be gone, do we? Perhaps some will remain. I can see Dumbledore setting permanent protections on the house itself, so that the Dursleys could not fall victim to the DEs after Harry leaves. JM2K ...

Solitaire

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Magic Words - Jul 9, 2006 7:41 am (#104 of 277)

Ron and Hermione are of age, but wouldn't they still get in trouble for performing magic in front of Muggles?

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 9, 2006 12:13 pm (#105 of 277)

This could be a very entertaining scene. Hopefully Jo has a lot of fun with it. The way I understand it Harry needs to stay only one more night with the Dursleys. They have agreed. I don't think they will fret too much about Ron and Hermione if they know in 24 hours they are rid of Harry for good. LPO

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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 2:50 pm (#106 of 277)

Wouldn't you just love to have Harry send Dobby (more reliable than Kreacher) on a mission to Privet to keep an eye on the Dursleys after he leaves? What a circus that would be!

Solitaire

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virginiaelizabeth - Jul 9, 2006 7:35 pm (#107 of 277)

SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Ron and Hermione are of age, but wouldn't they still get in trouble for performing magic in front of Muggles? Magic Words

I've often thought about that. The answer is probably but it could be ok because the Dursley's are aware of the magical world, I don't know. They don't even have to use magic in my opinion, just threaten to use magic, but I tend to think that they won't have to even do that, as they can apparate right to harry's room and avoid the Dursley's all together.

EDIT: Soli that's very possible, I'm just assuming that those protections lift when Harry turns 17, but it may not to protect the Dursleys. Just have to wait and see won't we!

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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2006 7:41 pm (#108 of 277)

How do you know they can apparate right to Harry's room? Dobby certainly could, but I wonder if 4PD might not have protections on it which prohibit apparation.

Solitaire

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 10, 2006 1:10 am (#109 of 277)

Solitare - in Order of the Phoenix the advanced guardf apparate into the kitchen with Tonks breaking something.

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Amilia Smith - Jul 10, 2006 1:44 am (#110 of 277)

Did they apperate in? Or did they apperate nearby and then break in?

Mills.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 10, 2006 3:10 am (#111 of 277)

Edited Jul 10, 2006 3:47 am
While Tonks said arrived in the chapter I always thought they apparated. Also, Arthur Weasley was able to get a floo connection in Goblet of Fire, and apparated home. My guess is this was from the living room, as he was under attack from Uncle Vernon.

Edit re Laura W's post. Harry was in the house so a burgular alarm would probably be switched off though knowing the Dursley's may be not - they would wamt Harry arrested and could then disown him. Or just a nice easy freezing charm as Slughorn practiced.

I do think apparating outside a house is just polite. After what the Dursley's have/have not done to Harry maybe Ron and Hermione would not care too much about politeness.

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Laura W - Jul 10, 2006 3:15 am (#112 of 277)

Break in? I know you're serious, Mills, but it somehow struck me as funny/delightful.

The Dursley's with their perfectly-manicured lawn would undoubtedly also have a house alarm system. Just picture what would greet the "please-men" who answered the alarm on this occasion; followed by Memory Charms flying all over the place. (Hee, hee.) Sorry, but I couldn't resist.

Continue on with the serious discussion, all ...

Laura

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Miss Amanda - Jul 10, 2006 4:44 am (#113 of 277)

I've mentioned before, a long time ago, in another thread, that it is not ok to threaten the Dursleys. I was very unhappy at the end of book 5 when Moody threatens Vernon.

I would hope that if Ron and Hermione do manage to visit at Privet Drive that they will attempt to follow Arthur's example of how to treat the Dursleys. He does have a lot of contempt for them, but he doesn't resort to "Muggle baiting." He doesn't threaten them with magic. He does use magic in front of them, as does Dumbledore in book 6. Apparently using magic in front of the Dursleys won't get you in trouble with the Ministry.

And Moody, Tonks, and the rest didn't apparate into Privet Drive; there wasn't any popping sound.

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TheSaint - Jul 10, 2006 4:49 am (#114 of 277)

They were in the kitchen..I don't think you would hear the popping. Tonks did break a dish on her arrival. I figured she apparated in too close to the drainboard or something.

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Laura W - Jul 10, 2006 6:02 am (#115 of 277)


"I've mentioned before, a long time ago, in another thread, that it is not ok to threaten the Dursleys. I was very unhappy at the end of book 5 when Moody threatens Vernon."

He wasn't the only one who threatened them. From PS, Chapter Four, "But at that moment, Hagrid leapt from the sofa and drew a battered pink umbrella from inside his coat. Pointing this at Uncle Vernon like a sword, he said, 'I'm warning you, Dursley - I'm warning you - one more word ...' "

And Arthur may not have threatened Vernon - he never would! - but when he insisted Dursley be polite to Harry, Arthur still had his wand in his hand which certainly intimidated Vernon. "But Mr. Weasley's wand was still in his hand, and Uncle Vernon's tiny eyes darted to it once, before he said, very resentfully, 'Goodbye, then.' " (GoF, Chapter Four)

Ultimately, of course, Hagrid does more than just threaten the Muggles with magic, using same to give Dudley a pig's tail. And Fred and George perform magic on Dudley, using an Engorgement Charm. With all the MOM laws against using magic on or even in front of Muggles, it is curious that neither Hagrid nor the Weasley twins get into any trouble, legally-speaking. (The twins *did* get a serious verbal hiding from their parents, but otherwise seemed to get away with it. Not to mention that they are just 16 years old at this point and have not only done magic in front of/to Muggles, they are contravening the Decree for the Restriction of Underage Sorcery.)

Also, Miss Amanda, it could be argued that Dumbledore's Howler to Petunia in OoP was a threat of sorts -- although I admit that's an arguable point.

Laura

Almost forgot ... at the end of PoA, Harry threatened the Dursley's with the fact that his godfather was an escaped murderer who likes to hear that Harry is well and happy.

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haymoni - Jul 10, 2006 6:25 am (#116 of 277)

I have no problem whatsoever with someone threatening the Dursleys.

This is not the same as Mr. Roberts and his family who were unaware of the Wizarding World and were complete victims in what happened to them.

Pet & Vernon know about the Wizarding World. They were given instructions by Dumbledore and they chose not to follow them.

In my opinion, Dumbledore let them off easy.

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Laura W - Jul 10, 2006 6:49 am (#117 of 277)

Hope nobody thought I was saying I had any problem with the Dursley's being threatened. Just pointing out instances, in addition to the one Miss Amanda mentioned, where they were. And since she *does* have a problem with it, I felt it deserved to be addressed. (I do have a problem with laws being broken, however, which is a totally other issue.)

After the way all three of the Dursley's physically, emotionally and psychologically tortured - and I do not use that word lightly - that little boy from age one till age 11 and every summer since, I have nothing but the worst, most uncharitable feelings towards them. Seriously! And if threatening Vernon will result in Harry's life at 4PD over the summer - of any year - be a little bit more liveable, then that is fine with me.

(Hmm... guess I've just shown my darker side here. Should slam the oven door on my head or something to do penance.)

We all know why Harry has to go back to 4PD before setting off Horcrux-hunting, but I never really understood - when I read it at the end of HBP - how Ron and Hermoine were going to go with him to and/or stay with him at the Dursley's. Am enjoying reading all your interpretations of that.

Laura

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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 10:28 am (#118 of 277)

Tonks did break a dish on her arrival. I figured she apparated in too close to the drainboard or something.

Poor Tonks! Alas, breaking the dish cannot be blamed on apparating. Remember that she kept knocking things over in 12GP, too ... and she was not apparating there. She was just a bit clumsy. I'm not saying the Advance Guard didn't apparate in ... just that breaking the dish is not proof.

Solitaire

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haymoni - Jul 10, 2006 1:06 pm (#119 of 277)

Somebody suggested that her clumsiness manifests itself when she is around Lupin.

I still think they apparated in.

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 10, 2006 1:18 pm (#120 of 277)

I do have a problem with the Dursleys being threatened. No wonder they are afraid of wizards if wizards can do what they please around them and to them. I can see their original mistrust of wizards perhaps coming from something the Marauders did, but it could be from soemthing else. Doesn't anyone ever wonder about WHAT made them the way they are? I do. The theory I have is that they treated Harry the way they did because they were scared spitless of someone finding out he was a wizard, or more to the point, the boy-who-lived himself.

Don't get me wrong; I think they treated Harry abominably, but every time it went TOO far, Harry's accidental magic kicked in and he got out of it. Look at the shock Vernon got trying to pull him through the window. He was NOT tortured in my opinion, and I've studied the history of torture (my emphasis was on political torture, I'll admit) pretty extensively.

BTW, I can't see how the trio can live in Harry's room for any length of time, without the Dursleys knowing about it. They'd know someone had been going to the loo if nothing else. Petunia has too clean a house to hide two extra teenagers living there.

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haymoni - Jul 10, 2006 1:22 pm (#121 of 277)

Ron & Hermione may not arrive until the day of Harry's birthday.

They don't have to stay overnight - just long enough to help him collect his stuff and to force Petunia into telling them a tidbit or two.

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SilverMoonLady - Jul 10, 2006 2:54 pm (#122 of 277)

Edited by Jul 10, 2006 3:03 pm
Not to perpetuate our slight veering off topic, but...

"Don't get me wrong; I think they treated Harry abominably, but every time it went TOO far, Harry's accidental magic kicked in and he got out of it. Look at the shock Vernon got trying to pull him through the window. He was NOT tortured in my opinion, and I've studied the history of torture (my emphasis was on political torture, I'll admit) pretty extensively."

Now, though they may never have put the thumbscrews to the poor boy, he couldn't possibly have done anything to deserve the kind of bullying he already suffered from them as far back as he remembered -- one cannot make the same argument when the well-meaning adults in his life turn that around, as Moody did, bullying the bully, as it were. Had the Dursleys merely never told Harry about the wizarding world in general, but treated him kindly, I doubt very much that any 'threat' would be necessary.

Have you never stood up for someone smaller/weaker than yourself, or as one such wished that your attacker would get a taste of the same?

Sil

puzzled at the continued ill-will towards those who do just that*

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Mattew Bates - Jul 10, 2006 3:14 pm (#123 of 277)

“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
"Apparently using magic in front of the Dursleys won't get you in trouble with the Ministry." Miss Amanda, post 113

One thing related to this that's always kind of bugged me: Harry was prosecuted for doing just this in OotP. I realize that the Ministry was just itching for an excuse to bring him up on charges, but why didn't Dumbledore mention that Dudders was already aware of the magical community, so none of the secrecy statutes applied?

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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2006 7:45 pm (#124 of 277)

Harry was being railroaded by the Ministry for underage magic as much as anything else, wasn't he?

Solitaire

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Laura W - Jul 11, 2006 12:56 am (#125 of 277)

There is obviously going to be some disagreement here, but I have always taken exception to those who call the Dursley's treatment of Harry "neglect" or some other more benign term. What they did to him is - from my viewpoint - child abuse, plain and simple.

Making a child sleep in a tiny closet inhabited by spiders is not mere neglect. Allowing one's son to use his cousin as a punching bag while the cousin's best friend holds his arms constitutes physical abuse. "He wore round glasses held together with a lot of Sellotape because of all the times Dudley had punched him on the nose." (PS, Chapter Two) Allowing one's son to bully all the other children into not befriending his cousin, not choosing him for sports teams, not letting him in clubs, etc. is to force the cousin into a physical and psychological state of isolation which is very difficult for an adult to keep sane in - let alone a child. "At school, Harry had no one. Everybody knew that Dudley's gang hated that odd Harry Potter ... and nobody liked to disagree with Dudley's gang." (PS, Chapter Two) Referring to a child as "boy" instead of his name is reminiscent of how slaves were demeaned until they had no sense of self. Never acknowledging - let alone celebrating - a child's birthday is akin to telling that child you do not acknowledge he exists. That goes far beyond not-very-nice behavior towards him. Continually badmouthing a child's dead parents and saying they were "abnormal" and "weirdos" and "freaks" is an emotional whipping of huge proportions.

There are many kinds of torture - and, yes, I have had occasion to personally talk with and listen to a number of people from repressive countries who have experienced one or more of its forms -, and in every way possible treating a child between the age of one and 11 as if their very birth, their very existence, is an event to be regretted and mourned certainly qualifies as same!

And then there's the summers when Harry comes home. CoS, Chapter Two, "Uncle Vernon was as bad as his word. The following morning, he paid a man to fit bars on Harry's window. He himself fitted the cat-flap in the bedroom door, so that *small amounts* of food could be pushed inside three times a day. They let Harry out to use the bathroom morning and evening. Otherwise, he was locked in his room around the clock." Sounds like more than a time-out to me. If a dog, cat or ferret in the Muggle world was being treated that way for days at a time, the Humane Society would be at the door pronto.

Having Aunt Marge and all the neighbours think that Harry is a juvenile delinquent so that they don't even want to associate with him in PoA is like saying, "You don't even deserve to be seen in or to have contact with human society" to the 13-year-old. That message, when repeated over and over in both word and action - as it has been whenever Harry is at 4PD -, is one which professional torturers all over the world (and Dementors, of course) ultimately try to firmly instill in their victims. When it takes, they have done what they set out to do.

I could go on, but I won't. Let's just call this an agree-to-disagree moment. I *have* been talking about Privet Drive, as in the name of this thread; but regarding Ron and Hermoine being there ...

Laura

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Regan of Gong - Jul 11, 2006 3:43 am (#126 of 277)

Self declared doctor of everything.
Yeah, I was thinking as I was reading the posts that it is child abuse. I reckon it's alright to hit a child round the posterior if they've been bad, it hasn't damaged me...I've never understood why SuperNanny doesn't do it. But choking, as is implied in OotP is no good at all.

Also, standing by while you're well aware a child in your care is being hunted and hurt by another child in your care is neglect/child abuse.

It is rather surprising that Harry didn't turn out like Voldemort like was said somewhere in the series, considering all the stuff that's happened to him.

Personally I won't give a fig if the Dursley's are hurt, cursed, hexed, transfigured, bewitched, charmed etc by Ron or Hermione, or by any other 3rd party when/if the trio converge on Privet Drive.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 11, 2006 3:49 am (#127 of 277)

Laura, I agree that the Dursley's more than neglected Harry. But surely, as DD states in Half-blood Prince that they also abused Dudley. By seeing Dudley as sooo perfect they took out everything on Harry. Can't you just see it. Dudley plays on Harry's "strangeness" because he knows what will happen.

I don't want either Vernon or Petunia to get hurt. I just want them to have to live the reality of what they did to Harry and Dudley. For their abuse of the two to haunt them. A much better punishment than death.

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Solitaire - Jul 11, 2006 4:29 am (#128 of 277)

I don't really think anyone other than the Dursleys themselves would disagree with you, Laura. I think CPS would have been called in for less around here. But who would have known? I'm sure none of the Muggle neighbors had a clue what was going on in that house. Even if some of Dudley's little juvenile delinquent friends had said something to their parents, I doubt the parents would have believed them. The Dursleys presented too respectable a front.

Mrs. Figg probably had a pretty good idea about what was happening, and I imagine she kept Dumbledore pretty well-informed about what was going on. But I also suspect she was told to kind of "fly under the radar" and not call attention to herself. I kind of hoped Harry would go and see her before he headed off for his sixth year. I mean, in his place, I'd have had a million questions for her ... wouldn't you? Well, maybe he just didn't have the opportunity. I hope he does this summer.

The fact that Harry is such a nice, relatively well-adjusted kid after the upbringing he endured does kind of make one question heredity versus environment, doesn't it? But Dumbledore had it right: there is more than one kind of abuse, and the Dursleys were clueless.

Solitaire

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Soul Search - Jul 11, 2006 6:58 am (#129 of 277)

I have had the idea that all the abuse Harry suffered as a child was supposed to have made him stronger, better able to face Voldemort. Otherwise, what was the point of making it a major theme of the story?

I guess that is a good question. Why was Harry's abuse a major theme of the story? What is it leading to?

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haymoni - Jul 11, 2006 8:08 am (#130 of 277)

I think if it would have gone on - i.e. Harry never went to Hogwarts, never had friends, never found out the truth about his parents, never socialized with anyone, etc. - we would have seen a very different young man. (Just finished reading a bit of the Columbine stuff - why, oh, why did I do that??!!)

Finding out that your idiot relatives are just that - idiots! - and that your parents were great and much-admired - and that you are a hero - and you get to go to a cool school, where you are a great athlete - and, oh by the way, you also get to do magic and have a wand and eat Chocolate Frogs and have great friends - I'm guessin' that kind of makes you feel a bit better about yourself.

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 11, 2006 9:08 am (#131 of 277)

Harry was not really affected by the alleged abuse. IF he were real, which he is not, he'd possibly be in serious therapy. Instead he's an intelligent, empathetic young man (outside of usual teenaged angst) for the most part. So maybe he did need to get toughened up. I'd have to think about that some more.

I'm not saying the Dursleys were great, but they were not psychopaths. And Harry was able to do unfocused magic to help himself when it got too bad. He flew onto the roof of the school. He gave Vernon a shock. He grew back his hair. Fan fiction where he is beaten into a coma or raped or something makes me crazy. It wouldn't happen.

It also might have made it easier to deal, I think, when he found out his own father was a bully, and Sirius was so reckless. It makes Harry more sympathetic to those kinds of situations.

I just have a problem putting everything off onto the Dursleys who were scared spitless of magic, (especially Petunia who knew her sister was KILLED by the person who still had followers out there hunting for the kid she had living in her house) and nothing on Dumbledore, who was suposed to be watching the kid closer than Harry knew. Dumbledore always gets a pass in this area. Everything he does is right, but he let this happen. How come the frightened, powerless Dursleys are blamed but not the powerful wizard whose set up the whole thing? He should have known it was a bad idea from the start. Remember...McGonagall tried to tell him at the time.

If every time a kid living in a house with another kid punched him in the nose, and the parents got called up for child abuse, the court system would be more jammed than it is. Harry's not afraid of spiders like Ron is, because he's used to them. The cupboard was small, but it wasn't dangerous in there. Many people survive without birthday parties. It is awful, and stinks, but it was not fatal.

My point is, to sum it up, he was NOT treated well. It can be considered abuse. But he wasn't tortured. That was not torture. And the abuse there was could have been stopped if he had been properly monitored.

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The One - Jul 11, 2006 9:09 am (#132 of 277)

Open minded sceptic
Does abuse make you stronger?

Remember that the power the dark love knows not is love, and abuse is not the way to learn people how to love

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Soul Search - Jul 11, 2006 9:28 am (#133 of 277)

Maybe it is sort of the opposite. Remember they are dropping baby Harry off, McGonnagall says "he will be famous" and Dumbledore replies that he will be better off growing up without all the attention from the wizarding world.

Things might have turned out worse than expected at #4 Privet Drive, but it still might have been better for Harry, considering the prophecy, than if he had grown up in the wizarding world.

Hard to tell. I do agree, Die Zimtzicke, that the blame for some of Harry's treatment by the Dursleys has to be laid on Dumbledore. A visit to the Dursley's, or even an owl post, could have saved Harry a lot of torment.

And getting back to the "Trio at Privet Drive ..."

I am trying to remember how much Ron and Hermione have seen the Dursleys. They have all been in the train station at the end of the books, but I can't recall any interaction.

I am not even sure Harry has related much of his life before he went to Hogwarts.

What I was working up to, was will Ron, and especially Hermione, be of a mind to repay the Dursleys for their treatment of Harry? Sort of like the twins in GoF. I don't see it.

Next, how will the Dursleys treat Ron and Hermione? My guess would be "not very well." How will Ron and Hermione React?

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haymoni - Jul 11, 2006 9:51 am (#134 of 277)

Pet doesn't know that Dumbledore is gone.

I'm guessing Harry doesn't tell them.

Hermione may be just enough of a Lily reminder that Pet may be cowed into tolerating their visit.

Molly & Arthur may tag along. Fred & George may come just for kicks!

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Solitaire - Jul 11, 2006 4:21 pm (#135 of 277)

the blame for some of Harry's treatment by the Dursleys has to be laid on Dumbledore

As Dumbledore himself told Harry, his main concern was keeping him alive. As I have understood it, the protection Lily gave him by giving up her life was "extended" to keep him safe, but only as long as he lived with Aunt Petunia. Dumbledore expressed regret that, while he was glad Harry wasn't a "pampered prince," he was sorry things went too far the other way.

I'm just glad that Dumbledore managed to leave that parting shot with the Dursleys about their abuse of Harry. Of course, it fell on deaf and clueless ears, but at least he said it ... and now Harry knows about "The Letter."

Solitaire

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virginiaelizabeth - Jul 11, 2006 4:51 pm (#136 of 277)

SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I don't want either Vernon or Petunia to get hurt. I just want them to have to live the reality of what they did to Harry and Dudley. For their abuse of the two to haunt them. A much better punishment than death. Phelim

I totally agree with this. I think that the Dursley's did some horrible wrongs in their lifes, and the upbringing of both Harry and Dudley. They need to be punished in some form(obviously) but I do not think that death or physical injury is the key to it. They need to live with what they have done, and they really need to feel bad for it, though I'm not sure they would as it hasn't bothered them for the past 16 years. Maybe Harry and Pet will bond in book 7..? She loves Dudley, so we know she's capable of it but in the end it's hers and Vernon's choice to change, I just hope it happens.

I think that if there's some kind of attack on 4PD that Harry Ron and Hermione will save the Dursley's, even if they feel they don't deserve that because that's just Harry. I don't know, I;m babbling now...

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TheSaint - Jul 11, 2006 8:32 pm (#137 of 277)

Easily achieved at the end VE...

Harry saves the wizarding world, is regarded as a great hero by wizards and maybe even awarded by the muggle Prime Minister, has a home, a fortune and a girl...

and Dudley spends his days in prison..or St.Brutus'!

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Regan of Gong - Jul 12, 2006 2:09 am (#138 of 277)

Self declared doctor of everything.
According to Trelawney Harry lives to a grand old age, becomes happily married, has 12 children and becomes Minister for Magic!

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Laura W - Jul 12, 2006 4:11 am (#139 of 277)

I'm counting on that, Regan! (wide grin)

... like Jo would ever let Harry be truly happy for more than a few weeks at a time without something terrible befalling him. (Sigh) She hasn't in the first six books but, like you, I'm holding onto Sybill's words with whatever faint hope I possess. Hey, her Inner Eye's been right before - more than once.

Laura

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haymoni - Jul 12, 2006 5:48 am (#140 of 277)

Solitare - I thought Harry already knew about The Letter from Hagrid's visit at The Hut on the Rock.

I don't have SS/PS with me, so I can't check, but I'm pretty sure Hagrid says something like "Dumbledore explained it all in a letter."

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 12, 2006 7:52 am (#141 of 277)

I'm not counting on the twelve children thing. All of the prophecies Trewlawny makes when she's NOT in a trance are garbage. That's why I still Harry could die in the end. I don't want a smarmy, white picket fence ending.

But I do think Ron and Hermione implied they were going to Privet Drive WITH Harry. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, but that's what I got. I don't think they'll wait until his birthday to show up. I don't even know if he will stay there until his birthday. I think something will happen when the protection ends, though, whether he's there or not. I just don't think it will be all of the Dursleys getting killed.

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Choices - Jul 12, 2006 12:06 pm (#142 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"We'll be there, Harry," said Ron.

"What?"

"At your aunt and uncle's house," said Ron. "And then we'll go with you wherever you're going."

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haymoni - Jul 12, 2006 12:14 pm (#143 of 277)

At the end of HBP, Harry hasn't actually left the school yet, has he? I don't have my books with me so I can't check for sure.

I suppose it is possible that Book 7 picks up with the train ride home.

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Choices - Jul 12, 2006 12:32 pm (#144 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
You are correct Haymoni - it says that the Hogwart's Express will leave an hour after the funeral. As the book ends, the funeral is just over.

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haymoni - Jul 12, 2006 1:23 pm (#145 of 277)

We may see an interesting twist at the train station then.

I wonder if someone from the school notified all the parents about Dumbledore's death?

Or at least those that live with Muggles?

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 12, 2006 3:30 pm (#146 of 277)

I think Ron and Hermione have appointed themselves Harry's new guard. With Dumbledore dead they know they have to look after Harry. I think they will go with him to 4PD. It is symbolic that throughout the books the trio have had internal problems. Now that is straightened out and together they can find the Horcruxes and defeat Voldy. LPO

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Solitaire - Jul 12, 2006 5:49 pm (#147 of 277)

You're correct, Haymoni ... he did mention it. But I do not remember Harry pursuing the subject of the letter ... or asking Dumbledore about it, for that matter. Hmmmmmm ... Harry needs to focus!

Solitaire

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haymoni - Jul 13, 2006 4:01 am (#148 of 277)

Well - Harry WAS a bit overwelmed at finding out he was a wizard and that his parents didn't die in a car crash. The poor kid probably missed half of what Hagrid was saying.

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Laura W - Jul 13, 2006 4:16 am (#149 of 277)


"I'm not counting on the twelve children thing. All of the prophecies Trewlawny makes when she's NOT in a trance are garbage. That's why I still Harry could die in the end. I don't want a smarmy, white picket fence ending."

Not surprisingly perhaps, I disagree with this on several counts. If Harry survives at the end of Book Seven, I would not consider that to be either a smarmy or white-picket-fence conclusion to the series. So, does he have to die in order for the story to be ... what?... realistic? acceptable? worthy? Enough good people have suffered and have even died over the last six books (starting with James and Lily) to disqualify this series as a happy-ever-after confection, no matter what happens next. Having Harry Potter live to see his grandchildren *could* happen after all. Dumbledore has said repeatedly that Harry already has the tools to defeat Voldemort. It possible that he will do so without himself perishing. Why should this possibility be automatically discounted or considered to be too sappy or saccharine a conclusion? Sometimes, things *do* work out for people.

Also, I disagree about Sybill. I thought she was a giant fraud, as most do, when I read the books the first time but the more often I read them I saw her in a very different light. To me, she is the comic/tragic figure one is supposed to laugh at - because she *is* written as a ridiculous character -, but turns out to have wisdom that neither she nor anyone else is aware of. Everything she predicted in POA, Chapter Six came true, including Neville breaking the cup, Hermoine dropping out of the course and Harry being followed by the Grim (which was actually Sirius, but he *was* a big black dog) which she saw in the tea leaves. She has, despite herself, made a lot more correct predictions than the major two she intoned which everyone comments on. Finally, since Book Three Trelawny has been woefully predicting and seeing Harry's death. If he does not survive in Book Seven, once again she will have been right.

Reading through this thread, I am still no closer to understanding, in a way that makes sense to me, how Ron and Hermoine are going to "be with" Harry at 4PD. The logistics of it, I mean. You've all probably answered this, but my mind can't see it. I never got it when Jo wrote it in HBP and I still don't. I'm too literal, I guess.

What I *can* understand is Harry going back for two weeks - as he did between his fifth and sixth years -, then packing all his belongings and leaving the house, never to have any contact with the Durselys again. Then he would go to the Burrow, meet up with Ron and Hermoine, take in the wedding and the three of them would go off Horcrux hunting (above the objections of both Hermoine's and Ron's parents). Man, how unimaginative! It's a very, very good thing that I do not write fiction books and that JKR does. I have no doubt that nothing I envisioned above will be how Jo makes it happen. And thank Merlin that is so!

But, what exactly did Ron mean by, "We'll be there. ... At your aunt and uncle's house?"

Laura (waiting for the lightbulb to go on over her head)

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TheSaint - Jul 13, 2006 4:24 am (#150 of 277)

Ummm...pop in each day, hang out, study about horcruxes and then go home and go to sleep?

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The Trio At Privet Drive and More... (Post 151 to 200)

Post  Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:02 am

haymoni - Jul 13, 2006 5:20 am (#151 of 277)
They could take the train to Hogwarts like they are going to be at school, but then slip off to Hogsmeade and start the search.

Is Ron 17? There isn't a whole lot Molly & Arthur can do.

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The One - Jul 13, 2006 5:39 am (#152 of 277)

Open minded sceptic
Rom turned 17 in HBP Otherwise he could not have failed his apparation test. He also got this strange watch at his 17 years day.

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Laura W - Jul 13, 2006 5:45 am (#153 of 277)

I know they can't actually *do* anything, as Ron turned 17 last March. That's why I deliberately wrote " above the objections" of his parents.

Even though Fred and George were 17 in OoP, Molly strongly objected to them hearing what the Order was up to. Legally they were adults - as Arthur pointed out -, but her protective instincts still kicked in. I can see that happening in spades when it comes to her youngest son. Even Arthur might be fearful for the 17-year-old Ron to take on such a dangerous mission at his age and with only a sixth-year wizarding education. Nonetheless, we all know any objections by either Ron or Hermoine's parents will go totally and completely unheeded. That's the *only* thing I'm sure of regarding this particular thread/issue.

Laura

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haymoni - Jul 13, 2006 6:39 am (#154 of 277)

I'm guessing Ron & Hermione aren't going to tell anyone what they are up to.

Hermione could tell her parents that she is staying at The Burrow - once again!

Ron could tell his parents that Hermione has invited him home for the holidays.

I was never able to pull off such lying, but I have heard of others who were quite successful at it.

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Weeny Owl - Jul 13, 2006 12:52 pm (#155 of 277)

I really don't consider that the Order members were threatening the Dursleys, at least not in the strictest definition of "threaten."

Granted, Mad-Eye did say it was a threat, but all anyone asked was that Harry be treated decently.

That isn't a threat any more than a country's laws are a threat. If you commit a crime, you will be punished. If the Dursleys are abusive to Harry, there will be repercussions. There is really no difference.

They don't have to be extraordinarily nice to him, give him expensive gifts, cater to his every want... all they need to do is treat him decently. If they don't, then they've brought it on themselves.

I don't want to see them hexed for a couple of reasons... one, it would do more harm than good as to their opinion of him, and while their opinion may not matter after he leaves, it still would be in his best interests to be as mature as possible. Secondly, it would serve no useful purpose. It might relieve a bit of tension, but otherwise, it won't affect anyone that much.

I just think the trio should concentrate on their quest and basically ignore the Dursleys.

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Soul Search - Jul 13, 2006 1:20 pm (#156 of 277)

But Weeny Owl, the Dursleys are our comic relief. Something funny (to us) has to happen to them, one last time.

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Catherine - Jul 13, 2006 2:36 pm (#157 of 277)

Canon Seeker
It would be pretty hard to top Dumbledore's bouncing the glasses of mead on their heads.

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wynnleaf - Jul 13, 2006 3:33 pm (#158 of 277)

I hadn't read this thread until yesterday and today and wanted to make a few comments.

On the Dursleys and abuse... Harry lives in the cupboard under the stairs on an everyday basis up until he got his first letter from Hogwarts. So when the narration says that Harry was put in his cupboard for a week or more at a time, it doesn't mean he was just spending the nights in there during those times. What it appears to mean is that the Dursleys sometimes confined him to a cupboard for days at a time, sometimes for more than a week. He was confined for a week after the haircut and hairgrowing incident. But after the zoo incident was his longest time in the cupboard and the narration says that when he finally got out the summer holidays were well under way.

Confining a child in a cupboard for days and days at a time qualifies in my mind as torture, even if they let him out for two bathroom breaks a day (like when he was locked in his room).

We also see Vernon withholding meals (like after the zoo incident), or Petunia only feeding Harry an incredibly meager diet of a can of cold soup. Since Harry was 13 at the time, and I've got a 13 year old boy, I know that this was not nearly enough for a boy that age.

So yes, Harry was abused at the Dursleys. And confining him frequently in a cupboard for days at a time could be considered a form of torture, in my opinion.

Okay, enough of that.

As to what will happen to Harry at #4.

First, it sounded to me like school let out early after DD's funeral, so the Dursleys aren't going to be expecting Harry back so soon. Will he go directly back to Privet Drive? Or might he make a detour first? Harry had mentioned visiting Godrics Hollow and his parents grave. I wonder if he'll go there prior to going to #4? Of course, this is just a guess, but I think we can assume more will come out at Godrics Hollow and his parent's graves than just a sentimental visit. I'm not so much expecting him to find evidence of horcruxes (the house was almost completely destroyed) as I am wondering if he'll find something or other peculiar enough to start him wondering about what really happened on the night his parents died (we've never heard the full story, after all). So I'm speculating that after going to GH and the graves, he'll have questions that will need answers from other people. If any of those questions requires answers from Petunia, then JKR will probably have him visit GH and the graves prior to seeing Petunia. Or he may need answers from people who will be at the wedding -- like Lupin.

Since I expect that summer will be the last we'll see of the Dursleys, I think Petunia's history with the magical world (such as it is), will come out. How that will happen, I don't know. However, I think we'll also find out where Petunia heard about dementors, and probably who "that awful boy" is.

Since my guess is that the "awful boy" was Snape (yes, I think there was a Snape-Lily connect, probably friendship), I'm guessing that Harry will tell the Dursleys that Dumbledore was murdered and in doing so, mention Snape's name. Then it will come out that Petunia knows who Snape is, and she'll give some information on that. Just my guess of course.

And then there's the letter DD originally left with Petunia, and his comment to McGonagall way back then that Petunia would be able to explain everything to Harry. That apparently meant that there was a great deal explained in the letter. It's possible that Petunia will give Harry the letter.

Just my guesses of course.

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virginiaelizabeth - Jul 13, 2006 6:12 pm (#159 of 277)

SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
Jill, I totally agree with every point in your post #155. I don't consider what Moody and the Order did at the train station a threat, because I feel like the Dursleys have had that coming for a long time. They mereley want Harry to be treated decently like you said. I think you could consider it a threat if you want to but I don't as I feel like the situation is key.

I also don't think that there is really any point in cursing them, the trio might do it, but I don't see much of a purpose to it. I don't feel like it would get them very far at all. Like I said before, if there is any trouble with Ron and Hermione at 4PD, then all they'd have to do is say the magic word and they'd get in, but I don't think it would resort to this...but it might, knowing Uncle Vernon's temper.

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deletedaccount - Jul 13, 2006 7:49 pm (#160 of 277)

Yes, the way the Dursleys' treated Harry was child abuse and torture. It reminded me of the way I was treated growing up. I have post traumatic stress disorder and reading the books have been fun and too traumatic at times. I cannot wait until book 7, but it's a shame that it'll all be over.

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haymoni - Jul 14, 2006 7:27 am (#161 of 277)

Mezuzas - I have often wondered how folks who went through similar things feel as they read these books. Not everybody gets saved by a half-giant wielding a pink umbrella.

wynnleaf - I hope things happen just as you say - the mention of Snape leading to Pet spilling all.

I'll take the mention of ANYTHING that leads to Pet spilling all.

I'm wondering if the curse could be something like a Muggle repelling charm. Like everytime Pet goes for those rubber gloves, she suddenly remembers something else to do. Dudley could have the sudden urge to run around the block everytime he eats. Vernon could start hugging strangers for no apparent reason.

Amusing things like that!

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TheSaint - Jul 14, 2006 4:37 pm (#162 of 277)

ohh...I want to see Vernon wearing Wizard Garb!

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Laura W - Jul 15, 2006 5:07 am (#163 of 277)

" 'I enjoyed the meetings, too,' said Luna serenely. 'It was like having friends.' This was one of those uncomfortable things Luna often said and which made Harry feel a squirming mixture of pity and embarrassment." HBP, Chapter Seven, p.132.

Thank you kindly for your honest and courageous reply to my post #125, Mezuzas.

Laura

Carry on, folks ... something about the Dursley's turning really nice and also pro-wizard in Book Seven? Boy, talk about fan fiction!! (Hee, hee.)

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Solitaire - Jul 15, 2006 6:31 am (#164 of 277)

I suspect fanfic is the only way Uncle Vernon will ever "turn nice." It would mean admitting he had been wrong about everything connected to Lily, James, and Harry for a huge part of his life. I just do not think Uncle V. is capable of doing this. As for Aunt Petunia and Dudley ... it's hard to say. If something were to happen to Uncle Vernon, they might be able to be "reprogrammed" (like rescued cult victims).

It has occurred to me more than once that Vernon Dursley might have been Petunia's only suitor in years (if ever), and perhaps she was getting desperate. If so--and if he threatened to leave her after finding out about Lily--I can see her turning her back on Lily and adopting Vernon's philosophies. Of course, this is only speculation ... but if it were true, then it might be possible to rehabilitate Petunia if she were separated from Uncle Vernon.

Solitaire

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Soul Search - Jul 15, 2006 4:57 pm (#165 of 277)

Solitaire,

Even with that extra incentive for Petunia, I note that it was always Vernon who insulted, put down, and punished Harry; NOT Petunia.

I have never understood the furor of Vernon's dislike of Harry. Maybe "that awful boy" did something to Vernon.

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 15, 2006 5:07 pm (#166 of 277)

Maybe Petunia went with Vernon because she was the most muggly muggle she could find?

But we are getting very off topic. Any more theories on when and how the trio will get to Privet Drive?

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Miss Amanda - Jul 16, 2006 11:21 am (#167 of 277)

I'm not defending what the Dursleys did. They are awful people. However, I am not going to condone Moody's threat at the station, either.

I don't believe Arthur ever threatened Vernon with his wand. Vernon is understandably afraid of that wand, but Arthur cannot help that he is a wizard. Dumbledore may have threatened the Dursleys in the letter left with Harry on the doorstep, but the Howler was no threat, just a reminder.

On topic, someone had mentioned that perhaps a threat to do magic could force Vernon and Petunia to allow houseroom to Hermione and Ron. I would be totally against that, and I believe it would be way out of character for Hermione.

I take Arthur's stance on this, when he was angry at Fred and George for the toffee. He was still angry at Fred and George because they used magic to frighten a muggle, even though they did it because Dudley was a bully (and not because he was a muggle). I'm not against magical threats because the Dursleys are wonderful people. They're not. I'm against magical threats because the Dursleys are muggles who have REAL reasons to be frightened of magic. There are legal means to deal with the Dursleys if you would like them to be dealt with.

For that matter, if Ron catches him in the act of actually harming Harry, I would be totally open to a demonstration of muggle dueling. (That's sort of a joke, folks.)

Anyway, I believe the trio will just ride the train to the station and all go to 4 Privet Drive. I guess that Hermione and Ron might ask Mrs. Figg if she would give them houseroom. Or Hermione might try to use tact to get into the house. (Free dental care as a bribe?)

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Solitaire - Jul 16, 2006 11:13 pm (#168 of 277)

I do not think any of the Order members at the station were seriously threatening the Dursleys. I suspect they just wanted Vernon and Petunia to know that not only did they know how Harry was being treated, but they considered it inappropriate and were not going to stand idly by and let it continue.

Even more, I think this band of freinds wanted to show the Dursleys that there were people in this world who did love and esteem Harry and care about his welfare ... something I suspect he'd probably been told was not so over the years he spent with them. Can't you just see Uncle Vernon telling Harry, as he was growing up, that if James and Lily had really loved him, they would have been more careful ... or provided better for him ... and other lies like this? Well, I can ...

Solitaire

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Laura W - Jul 17, 2006 4:55 am (#169 of 277)


"Anyway, I believe the trio will just ride the train to the station and all go to 4 Privet Drive. I guess that Hermione and Ron might ask Mrs. Figg if she would give them houseroom. Or Hermione might try to use tact to get into the house. (Free dental care as a bribe?)"


Your theory intrigues me, Miss Amanda. I never thought of Ron and Hemoine staying with Mrs. Figg. All this time I - we - were trying to think how they could convince (or force?) Vernon and Pet to let them stay at 4PD. Or, alternatively, how they could physically do so without the Dursley's even being aware of it. Hmmm.

As to Ron and Hermoine just riding the train to 4PD without even going home first, don't you think their parents would notice if they didn't show up? (heh, heh) I guess they could each send an owl to their parents saying something like, "Will not be coming home. Will be staying with Harry for the summer. Don't worry." Or some such.

Laura

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haymoni - Jul 17, 2006 5:12 am (#170 of 277)

I like Figg Motel idea.

Might also help tie in who does magic late in life!!

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Laura W - Jul 17, 2006 6:17 am (#171 of 277)

Figg Motel! (snort) And I hope you're right about that magic thing. I just love Mrs. Figg. She has some of the greatest lines in the series and when she wore "carpet slippers" to Harry's trial, it cracked me up.

Laura

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Soul Search - Jul 17, 2006 7:27 am (#172 of 277)

I was a bit disappointed with the opening of HBP when it was clear there would be no scene or reference of Tonks, Moody, or someone dropping by to check on Harry. At the end of OotP it seemed someone would be checking every three days or so. I expected these visits to be the comic relief opening of HBP.

Dumbledore arriving at #4 Privet Drive was good, but not quite in the same vein.

I think the trio has to stay together. Harry has to stay at #4, so Ron and Hermione will also. There are protections at #4, but not at Mrs. Figg's. (That we know of.)

Parents will, of course, be a problem, but since Ron and Hermione are of age, a problem more of parent worry than any inhibitions.

Actually, Crookshanks and Pig may be more of a problem than just Ron and Hermione at #4. What if Fawkes shows up? It could get crowded. Petunia doesn't like pets.

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Choices - Jul 17, 2006 10:54 am (#173 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Since the Dursleys usually pick Harry up at King's Cross station when he comes home, does anyone actually believe that they will welcome Harry's "freaky little friends" (Ron and Hermione) as their houseguests? I just can't see it happening.

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Miss Amanda - Jul 17, 2006 5:34 pm (#174 of 277)

Well, that was partly my point in suggesting Mrs. Figg, Choices.

I don't see how Ron and Hermione are going to be welcomed and there's no magical trickery that I know of that will allow them to shrink and stay under the stair that squeaks. I suppose there's always the invisibility cloak.

Question: Why do the Dursleys bother to pick Harry up at the train station?

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Magic Words - Jul 17, 2006 5:59 pm (#175 of 277)

I would hazard a guess it's at Petunia's insistance, same as in OotP when she told Vernon he had to stay.

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Laura W - Jul 17, 2006 6:18 pm (#176 of 277)

Soul Search wrote, "I think the trio has to stay together. Harry has to stay at #4, so Ron and Hermione will also. There are protections at #4, but not at Mrs. Figg's. (That we know of.)"

Well, that shouldn't matter. The only spell at 4PD is the one protecting Harry from Voldemort because of Petunia's blood-link to Lily. There is no reason that Ron and Hermoine could not stay at Mrs. Figg's without there being *any* kind of enchantment on her house. She could just tell the neighbours that her niece and nephew - or some young friends of the family - have come to visit with her and her cats for a week or two. It's perfectly logical.

Laura

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Choices - Jul 17, 2006 6:28 pm (#177 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Yes, Miss Amanda, I have suggested Mrs. Figg's myself in the past. I don't think Hermione and Ron are going to stay around Privet Drive the whole time - I think they will come when Harry is ready to leave and go with him then, but if they did stay, I also think it would be at Mrs. Figg's house, not with the Dursleys.

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Miss Amanda - Jul 17, 2006 8:12 pm (#178 of 277)

Choices, when you say "the whole time," do you believe that Harry will stay the night there? Or even an entire hour? Surely not an entire two weeks or more.

I don't remember Dumbledore saying that Harry had to go to Privet Drive and actually stay for any particular length of time, just that Harry needed to visit once more in order to extend the charm for as long as possible. *Then again, I'm doing some nighttime posting again, which was responsible for two uninformed posts from me recently.*

So I could see the exchange going, "Hi, Uncle Vernon. These are my friends Hermione and Ron. We'd appreciate a lift to your place, and I'll pick up anything I might have left and never darken your doorstep again." To which Vernon would most heartily reply, "Too right."

I believe that would neatly get Hermione and Ron into the house. We could probably see a lot of interaction with the Dursley family, Ron, and Hermione that way. I can't imagine them letting "magic" folk run amok in the house without supervision. They could try to follow Harry, Ron, and Hermione around as they gather Harry's stray possessions, perhaps.

Then, after a heart-felt, "You've been the worst people ever and I'll never think of you again," Harry, Ron, and Hermione can leave Privet Drive and continue on to the Burrow. Ta Da! No one has to stay the night.

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Solitaire - Jul 17, 2006 8:50 pm (#179 of 277)

Why do the Dursleys bother to pick Harry up at the train station?

Well, would you want the Weasleys bringing Harry home, if you were the Dursleys? hehe

Edit: The only spell at 4PD is the one protecting Harry from Voldemort because of Petunia's blood-link to Lily.

Do we know this for certain? Have we been told that there are no other spells that have kept DEs away from the house and the Dursleys in general? I can't imagine Dumbldore would have wanted them threatened or hurt in any way. I've often wondered if there were some sort of spell that kept them safe.

Solitaire

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Laura W - Jul 18, 2006 12:05 am (#180 of 277)

Can you find any canon about that, Solitaire? Dumbledore says specifically he put the first - the one we all know about - enchantment on to keep Harry safe from V as long as he returns home for some time each year, but I do not remember reading about anything else.

And obviously, the spell is specific to Voldemort not getting Harry, as opposed to Harry and the Dursley's staying safe in general. We saw that 4PD did not protect Harry (and Dudley) from the Dementors, who came *this close* to sucking out Harry's soul practically in front of his doorstep at the beginning of OoP.

Laura

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Solitaire - Jul 18, 2006 12:57 am (#181 of 277)

As far as I have been able to determine, there is no canon one way or the other, Laura. That is why I asked if we had been told somewhere by Jo--on her site or in an interview, perhaps--that this was the only spell performed. I am simply speculating that there may have been some additional charms or enchantments placed on 4PD itself. Given the fact that the DEs went after the Longbottoms many months after Voldemort's fall, I can't help believing they would have gone after the Dursleys in an attempt to get Harry, had this been possible. In fact, I would think it more likely that they would try to get to Harry, since the encounter with him is what vaporized Voldemort.

Laura W: 4PD did not protect Harry (and Dudley) from the Dementors, who came *this close* to sucking out Harry's soul practically in front of his doorstep at the beginning of OoP.

Actually, Laura, Harry and Dudley were a couple of streets away from 4PD, in Magnolia Crescent, when the Dementors attacked them. I do not believe the attack itself is an indicator of the presence or absence of any additional protections on Privet Drive, since the attack did not happen there.

Other things, however, make me think that 4PD itself is protected. First, after the attack, Mrs. Figg tells Harry to "get inside and stay there." Shortly after Harry enters 4PD, a letter from Arthur Weasley arrives with a strong (caps-lock) warning: "DO NOT LEAVE YOUR AUNT AND UNCLE'S HOUSE." Not long after that, a note from Sirius arrives, containing the following message: "Don't leave the house again, whatever you do." These strong warnings do make me think there is extra protection on 4PD. Of course, this is JM2K ...

Solitaire

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Laura W - Jul 18, 2006 2:14 am (#182 of 277)

Ok, Solitaire, for the sake of this argument, let us say that there are several enchantments on Four Privet Drive (too bad there wasn't one that made his aunt and uncle love their nephew - sigh). Maybe this will come up in Book Seven. It will take that future revelation or somebody finding canon to this effect somewhere in the series to date to convince me, but nonetheless...

Even if the Dursley's house is a veritable cornucopia of protective magic and Mrs. Figg's house has nothing protecting it except her watch-cats, does this rule out her place as a temporary abode for Ron and Hermoine, as per Miss Amanda's suggestion?

Laura

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haymoni - Jul 18, 2006 7:07 am (#183 of 277)

What exacty does Dumbledore ask of Pet & Vernon when he visits? Doesn't he ask them to let Harry stay there until he turns 17? I suppose Harry could ignore Dumbledore's wishes.

As to the Dursleys picking up Harry. I figured a letter was sent home reminding parents that they needed to be at the train station by such & such a time on such & such a day to pick up their children. Maybe the letter suggests that if they do NOT pick up their children, a wizard will deliver the child to their doorstep.

Perish the thought!

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Solitaire - Jul 18, 2006 8:28 am (#184 of 277)

I'm willing to bet Dumbledore put some protections on Mrs. Figg's place, as well. I'm still waiting to find out what, exactly, her connection to Dumbledore was. Originally I thought she might be related to McGonagall.

I don't see why Ron and Hermione wouldn't be more comfy at her house than the Dursleys' house. I certainly would. And you can bet Hermione would take every chance to pick her brain for information. She might also get more information on Kneazles.

Solitaire

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haymoni - Jul 18, 2006 9:26 am (#185 of 277)

I'm sure there were protections on Figgy's. Especially with the Dursleys willing to leave him there.

Maybe Crookshanks was born at Figgy's!

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 18, 2006 10:07 am (#186 of 277)

I think they wanted Harry to stay at the Dursleys after the Dementor attack so they knew where he was and because of the blood protection. I don't think it proves or disproves any additional enchantments on the house.

Crookshanks MIGHT well have been born at Figgy's, since he's a kneazle and Jo says Figgy breeds kneazles.

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Choices - Jul 18, 2006 10:27 am (#187 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Miss Amanda - "Choices, when you say "the whole time," do you believe that Harry will stay the night there? Or even an entire hour? Surely not an entire two weeks or more."

I would never presume to know how long JKR plans for Harry to stay at the Dursleys before he turns 17. I would guess that it would have to be at least 24 hours, but it could be longer. "The whole time" simply means the entire time that he stays there - however short or long it is.

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Geber - Jul 18, 2006 9:10 pm (#188 of 277)

In PS/SS Harry took the train from Diagon Alley to Privet Drive. The trio could do the same. (I love the trains and tubes in greater London.)

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haymoni - Jul 19, 2006 6:15 am (#189 of 277)

I thought the Dursleys - or maybe it was just Vernon - met him at the station in SS/PS.

JKR likes trains too!

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Choices - Jul 19, 2006 9:12 am (#190 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Geber - "In PS/SS Harry took the train from Diagon Alley to Privet Drive."

After shopping in Diagon Alley for his school supplies, he and Hagrid leave Diagon Alley and go to Paddington Station where they have a hamburger before Harry boards the train back to the Dursleys. Trains don't leave from Diagon Alley. Then on Sept. 1, Harry leaves from King's Cross Station to go to Hogwarts.

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Deb Zawacki - Jul 22, 2006 11:39 am (#191 of 277)

I'm ust reading this thread for the first time and reading talk about Hermione having a computer--this would be mid 90's? The internet was relaively new then wasn't it? I mean yah it was there and growing fast but nothing like today....I was in grad school through 93 and thee was only so muchyou could do....

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virginiaelizabeth - Jul 22, 2006 1:50 pm (#192 of 277)

SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I see your point Deb, but the last book will be taking place in 1997. I had my first computer with the very first version of AOL in first grade (96-97) and it worked fine, it was just a bit slow, so it's not unheard of.

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Regan of Gong - Jul 22, 2006 7:12 pm (#193 of 277)

Self declared doctor of everything.
I think the comment about a computer was poorly researched and misguided. There has been no mention of Hermione owning a computer, and, however likely it is, I think it can be fairly safe to say that if she does own one, it will not appear in the books.

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virginiaelizabeth - Jul 22, 2006 8:18 pm (#194 of 277)

SPCA : Society for the Promotion of Cat Attire!
I tend to agree with you Regan, it's just not magical so why would there be information on magical things online? doesn't really make sense, but it is possible.

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Choices - Jul 23, 2006 1:39 pm (#195 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Having things about magic and the wizarding world online would surely violate the Wizarding Secrecy Act or something. I think books will always be first and foremost for information, as far as Hermione is concerned.

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Deb Zawacki - Jul 23, 2006 5:56 pm (#196 of 277)

You mean to say that magic folk wouldn't blog or charge money to do readings or go into chatrooms....no MYMAGICSPACE.com? Kids with Muggle parents would have summer access to computers and some of them would have muggle friends and family--and I would betcha there's a MAGYK Web....magic books online...mail order stuff...some aspects of wzard training may seem medievel--like writig with quills but these are 20-21st century wizards and witches who have t function in a world of muggles all the time.

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Choices - Jul 23, 2006 6:16 pm (#197 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
All these kids seem curiously untouched by the modern world, even the ones with Muggle parents. Furthermore, they don't even seem tempted by the modern world. Not one of them has tried to sneak in so much as a ball-point pen, for goodness sakes. Mercy, I'd gladly trade my computer for magical powers.

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Solitaire - Jul 23, 2006 6:18 pm (#198 of 277)

You mean the wwww ... as in World Wide Wizarding Web? They would have to function in a different "continuum," if you will, so that no one in the Muggle world could just happen into their business. What do you think--wwww.MYMAGICSPACE.com ...

these are 20-21st century wizards and witches who have t function in a world of muggles all the time

Muggle-born Witches and Wizards might be able to straddle both the Muggle and Wizarding worlds just fine, but I'm betting they really aren't interested in doing so once they find out their true identities. We have already seen Hermione distancing herself from her Muggle family and a safe, sane existence in the Muggle world in favor of spending time with Harry, the Weasleys, and the rest of the Order fighting against Voldemort.

Solitaire

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haymoni - Jul 23, 2006 7:25 pm (#199 of 277)

I guess Hermione could email or IM other Muggle-borns, but it just doesn't seem to fit into the story.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 24, 2006 1:50 am (#200 of 277)

I agree with the comment that Hermione would have a computer being badly thought out. But I have suggested that if they use a computer then it would be Dudley's. By 1997 Windows computers were becoming very popular with both Windows 95 and Windows 98 being available. It would fit into how Petunia and Vernon spoil Dudley for him to have the best pc with internet connection. I doubt though that it would fit into the story - though Dudley's new computer could be mentioned.

But 1997 (the year the book takes place) is the 10th annivesary of the first Harry Potter book appearing. Could there be a mention of Harry seeing a book with his name on being read by a boy on a bus or something? How cool would that be!

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The Trio At Privet Drive and More... (Post 201 to 250)

Post  Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:02 am

journeymom - Jul 25, 2006 12:10 pm (#201 of 277)
"I had my first computer with the very first version of AOL in first grade (96-97)"

I am so old.

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Mediwitch - Jul 25, 2006 7:31 pm (#202 of 277)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
You're in good company, journeymom!

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Thom Matheson - Jul 25, 2006 7:46 pm (#203 of 277)

My first floppy was in fact that, paper discs, that were floppy

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Solitaire - Jul 25, 2006 11:20 pm (#204 of 277)

I'm curious about when Dudley got his PlayStation. I know it was mentioned near the beginning of GoF, because Harry told Sirius in a letter that the Dud had chucked it out the window, and now he could not even play Mega-Mutilation, Part III to take his mind off his diet. What year would that have been? The first PlayStation was sold in Japan in 1994 and they did not hit America and Europe until 1995 (according to faqfarm.com). We know the Dud did get a new computer on his birthday in PS/SS. When did he get the PlayStation? Was it brand new when he tossed it out the window? Just wondering ...

I don't know if this belongs here or not, but you were discussing computers, so ...

Solitaire

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Regan of Gong - Jul 26, 2006 1:42 am (#205 of 277)

Self declared doctor of everything.
Yeah, I remember a discussion about that in some thread ages ago. If you search it, it might be in one of the Dursley's threads. People were suggesting Vernon twisted some arms to get one. I think it's just a minor discrepency.

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Choices - Jul 26, 2006 10:08 am (#206 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Regan - "People were suggesting Vernon twisted some arms to get one. I think it's just a minor discrepency."

I remember reading that too Regan, but can't remember where I saw it.

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timrew - Jul 26, 2006 6:54 pm (#207 of 277)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
journaymom:- "I had my first computer with the very first version of AOL in first grade (96-97)"

journeymom, I was born before home computers were even thought of....................

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Amilia Smith - Jul 27, 2006 1:33 am (#208 of 277)

About Dudley's Playstation: here is what Lexicon Steve has to say on the subject.

Mills.

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Deb Zawacki - Jul 27, 2006 6:07 pm (#209 of 277)

I think I remember reading or hearing something about that being an oversight--one of Jo's mistakes--or the US editor's not catching that in a real time line that Play station would not have been out yet.

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Mediwitch - Jul 27, 2006 7:58 pm (#210 of 277)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
I like the explanation that Vernon would have bullied or bribed his way into getting one early; I mean, if Dudders had to have 39 presents on his 12th (?) birthday Vernon and Petunia must go to some lengths to top the previous years' goods each year!

Besides, that lets Jo off the hook!

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Solitaire - Jul 27, 2006 9:46 pm (#211 of 277)

Thirty-nine presents ... Shopping for him is as bad as Christmas shopping! Imagine having to do that kind of shopping twice a year. Ugh! Given what Dudley received, Uncle Vernon must earn a pretty good salary.

Solitaire

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 27, 2006 10:07 pm (#212 of 277)

About the playstation, let's just admit that Jo is as bad with dates as she is with math. LOL!

This is like a Sherlock Holmes Society. We're trying to make something real that is just not real.

But what does it have to do with speculating about the trio at Privet Drive?

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Deb Zawacki - Jul 29, 2006 7:48 pm (#213 of 277)

Nothing.

We were talking about Hermione accessing the net for information and whether it would have been technologically probable or magically unlikely.

However this thread is called The Trio at Privet Drive AND MORE.

So I guess this is the "more" part

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Mediwitch - Jul 29, 2006 9:03 pm (#214 of 277)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
We're trying to make something real that is just not real.

Or maybe we're just having a little fun with it.

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Finn BV - Jul 31, 2006 10:10 am (#215 of 277)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Yes, it doesn't hurt to do your best to try to get the timelines to match up.

If Dudley had heard about the PlayStation, perhaps online (while we're mentioning computers), or from a Japanese friend, he may have wanted one so badly that Vernon and Petunia were some of the lucky ones who got it right in June/July 1994.

While it's quite clearly an oversight of Jo and her editors (PlayStations were huge in 2000), it's fun to try to see if there's any possibility for overlap between Harry's world and ours.

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Soul Search - Jul 31, 2006 3:02 pm (#216 of 277)

JKR has very pointedly NOT equated the stories to a specific timeline. We have be very clever and established links between story-time and real-time, but she doesn't seem to pay a lot of attention to them. Our links are even a bit flawed.

In her timeline for her wizarding world, there was a computer game called a "Playstation." That has nothing to do with the release schedule of any games in our world.

There was no "oversight."

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Choices - Jul 31, 2006 5:15 pm (#217 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Soul Search - There was no "oversight."

I like your thinking. Oversight is not a word I equate with JKR.

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haymoni - Jul 31, 2006 6:09 pm (#218 of 277)

Everytime someone tries to connect JKR's world to ours, it makes my head hurt.

Trying to say that Dumbledore was born in such & such a year or that James & Lily were killed in such & such a year almost ruins the books for me.

I like the generalizations of time in these books. It helps to make them timeless.

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Finn BV - Jul 31, 2006 6:54 pm (#219 of 277)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Okay -- I'll admit defeat on the word "oversight." That was some poor word choice.

However, Soul Search, we still differ. Read Lexicon Steve's thoughts on the PlayStation issue. He lists two possibilities. You seem to like #1 and I, #2.

Jo has confirmed that Draco was born in 1980, meaning that Harry did indeed write the letter to Sirius about the PlayStation in July/August 1994. While it's hard to think that JKR was consciously thinking about any anachronisms she might be writing, it is a little slip considering the other information. I'm not saying that she ever meant a timeline to exist. But, she created one, and to try and fit the PlayStation into it is an entertaining task.

However, I'm straying too far from the trio at Privet Drive, and even the "and more" part of it. We can always start a new thread about the timeline.

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TheSaint - Jul 31, 2006 8:15 pm (#220 of 277)

OMG...we are obsessive!

Can't believe there are essays and huge discussions over the existence of the playstation! LOL

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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 31, 2006 8:31 pm (#221 of 277)

Well, it's no more odd than trying to decide if Hermione would use a computer. I personally don't think she would. She seems to love books, and parchment and quills, and I think she would prefer doing her research the traditional way. Working in libraries seems to help her reasoning process. I think she finds the atmosphere conductive to logical thought.

Jo IS the one who set the time period in a specific way, however. If she didn't want to, she didn't have to. She could have avoided all of this by not being so specific. But she didn't do so. And having chosen to set the series in a specific time period, I think she should have stuck to it.

Why is that so much to ask, esepcially considering how much she SAYS she plans out everything?

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Solitaire - Jul 31, 2006 8:39 pm (#222 of 277)

Gee, I'm sorry I mentioned it. I didn't think everyone would get their robes in a twist!

Solitaire

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Finn BV - Jul 31, 2006 8:59 pm (#223 of 277)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Die Z –– I agree. At least I think she's more conscious about the continuity now, so we shouldn't get any more "errors."

Soli – don't worry about it! More discussion to fuel the fire!

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Regan of Gong - Aug 1, 2006 12:04 am (#224 of 277)

Self declared doctor of everything.
Robes in a twist? That's what we're all about!

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haymoni - Aug 1, 2006 5:23 am (#225 of 277)

Or at least wands in a knot!

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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 1, 2006 8:01 am (#226 of 277)

Yeah, come on- that's what we DO. We have a hobby that rotates around when playstations came out, and how Montague apparated into a Hogwarts toilet, and how Trelawney knew what was going on while she was making that prophecy, and why Marcus Flint was a 7th year for two years, or how Ginny could say she wanted to go to Hogwarts since Bill went when she was about a year old then, and all of that stuff.

I mean, it's not like Jo never makes a mistake or does something not everyone can understand. Why not talk about it? She's not God, after all.

As for going back to Privet Drive, I still don't see the trio all being there together for very long.

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Thom Matheson - Aug 1, 2006 9:01 am (#227 of 277)

Oh man, I can't believe I am doing this. If there is a wedding procession, will they use Ministry Cars? If so, what kind of cars would they use? We can date them and everything!

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Pamzter - Aug 1, 2006 5:03 pm (#228 of 277)

Has Jo ever stated her reason for writing the story in non-present time? Was she avoiding having to deal with current events? Or is there going to be a link between now and then (somewhere, somehow, someway)? Is the last chapter going to be something like "Where They Are In 2007"?

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Solitaire - Aug 1, 2006 7:37 pm (#229 of 277)

When she started writing the saga, wasn't she in present time?

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 1, 2006 7:45 pm (#230 of 277)

Solitaire, I believe that when the idea of the series occurred to her in 1990 she was in present time so it seems logical to me that the series be set in that timeframe.

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Soul Search - Aug 1, 2006 7:54 pm (#231 of 277)

I think the idea is that a story without specific timeline references has a better chance to have a multi-generational life.

JKR's wizarding world is a bit timeless. They use parchment and quills, candles, etc. The brief muggle world scenes need not be tied to a specific era; the HP story does not depend, particularly, on muggle events.

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Deb Zawacki - Aug 1, 2006 8:32 pm (#232 of 277)

It probably WAS in present time when she was coming up with her ideas.

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Finn BV - Aug 1, 2006 9:09 pm (#233 of 277)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Bringing this topic back on course, I just wanted to note that at JKR's reading tonight at Radio City, she made a vague reference to the trio doing things together at the start of Book Seven. She noted that, at this point in time, Hermione would see herself, Ron and Harry doing things together as they had planned out, in the Mirror of Erised. She might also see herself entwined with a certain individual whose identity you can guess, but that's another matter…

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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 11, 2006 8:04 am (#234 of 277)

Could the trio get their own back on the Dursley's by watering the garden using their wands and a neighbour reporting them for using a hosepipe during a ban?

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Solitaire - Aug 11, 2006 8:56 am (#235 of 277)

I find it difficult to think that the Trio is going to worry about playing tricks on the Dursleys for petty revenge when they have all of the Horcruxes to find and destroy. I just think their time will be occupied with more important things.

Solitaire

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Hoot Owl - Aug 11, 2006 12:39 pm (#236 of 277)

Teacher
Now that the Dursleys know that Harry has property (12GP and gold in an account) they may treat him differently. Better or worse I don't know. They will want a cut of his money. He may need some adult help beside Ron and Hermione. They can magic him away, but that would probably be against Wizarding Law, and they are not of age in the Muggle world.

The Order, the Weasleys, or the Ministrey may need to accompany them to Number 4 Privet Drive.

How about Kingsley Shaklsford arranging something with the muggle authorities, that might get the Dursley's attention

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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 11, 2006 4:53 pm (#237 of 277)

Ron and Hermione are of age now in the magical world and that's all that matters. (Hermione is the oldest after all. She turned 17 at the beginning of HBP.) So they can do anything any adult can do. I don't think they'd be petty to the Dursleys, though. It goes against everything the Weasleys believe about trying to understand muggles. If they got into any kind of trouble in the muggle world, I think they'd just apparate away from it.

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haymoni - Aug 11, 2006 5:00 pm (#238 of 277)

Ron isn't Arthur, though.

He'd use the same excuse Fred & George used - he wouldn't hassle the Dursleys because they were Muggles - he'd do it because they were/are mean to Harry.

I could see Hermione just being absolutely shocked at how Harry was treated.

Maybe she'll sick those birds on Pet and Vernon.

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Solitaire - Aug 12, 2006 12:38 pm (#239 of 277)

In order to get Harry's money, Uncle Vernon would have to go to Diagon Alley and stand in line (remember all the new precautions and procedures Bill mentioned?) at Gringott's. I can't see him doing this, can you?

Solitaire

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Regan of Gong - Aug 12, 2006 3:01 pm (#240 of 277)

Self declared doctor of everything.
That would be amusing.

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Hoot Owl - Aug 12, 2006 5:45 pm (#241 of 277)

Teacher
My previous post #236 was somewhat inarticulate, let me try again.

The Dursleys may try to "make nice" to Harry in an attempt to get their hands on some of his gold. I do not think Harry will fall for this. This may cause a problem for Harry leaving when he wants to. Magic could of course solve this. However they live in the muggle world and use of magic is restricted there. Short of self defence of course.

Ron and Hermione are of age for wizards, but they are still only children to muggles like Vernon Dursley. He would not be impressed. So unless they hex him it might help if they brought along some adults. Muggles such as the Dr.s Granger might make a stronger impact on him. Someone from the Muggle government would definetly get their attention. Kingsley Shackleford works in the muggle Prime Minister office, he might have pull.

We have been promised the Dursleys will get a payback. It would confirm their prejudices if they were turned into toads or the house was blown up by magic.

I do think Harry giving them a large pile of Leprechaun Gold would be fun, as he is leaving of course!

As for Big Dud, I have an idea that involves a certain small redheaded witch, an inappropriate remark, and Harry demonstrating ' Muggle Dueling' on him. Nothing fatal just a knockdown!

Just some random musings. Please feel free to improve or dismiss them.

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haymoni - Aug 12, 2006 9:23 pm (#242 of 277)

When Vernon asked about Harry getting a house, I wasn't so sure that he was interested in the value of the house. I thought he seemed more excited about the prospect of Harry living elsewhere.

I am certain it never would occur to Vernon Dursley that James & Lily Potter would have wealth of any kind, let alone a vault full of gold.

I'm not exactly sure what Pet knows.

Dudley's had a tail and he's been Demented. He's deathly afraid of magic and I'm guessing he'd be staying at Piers Polkiss's house if Ron & Hermione came knocking.

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Solitaire - Aug 12, 2006 11:47 pm (#243 of 277)

In one of the earlier books (can't remember which one), I think Harry mentions something to Ron about what Uncle Vernon would do if he knew about all that Wizard gold ...

I don't think Harry will ever tell him. Harry knows the level of his greed too well. Besides, Uncle Vernon would undoubtedly think he was justified in appropriating it all in "compensation" for having taken such wonderful care of Harry **cough! cough! gag!** all these years.

I agree, Haymoni, that the Dud would probably find a reason to skip out of PD, if Ron and Hermione drop in. Then again, Ron and Hermione might decide to stay with Mrs. Figg. Perhaps Hermione can pick her brain and find out a few things about Dumbledore that they may need to know.

Solitaire

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Laura W - Aug 13, 2006 12:31 am (#244 of 277)


"When Vernon asked about Harry getting a house, I wasn't so sure that he was interested in the value of the house. I thought he seemed more excited about the prospect of Harry living elsewhere."


Interesting take that I had never thought of, haymoni. The only thing that makes me question it is the way that part of the book is worded. " 'He's been left a house?' said Uncle Vernon, greedily," (HBP, p.52, Raincoast). The word "greedily" makes me think Vernon would like to obtain another property.

Laura


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Deb Zawacki - Aug 13, 2006 8:37 am (#245 of 277)

Give the Dursley's a bag of that gold that disappears--THAT would be funny--HArry's out the door, Vernon heads to the bank and POOF!

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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2006 11:19 am (#246 of 277)

LOL Leprechaun gold to Uncle Vernon! As to 12GP ... I, too, believe the use of the word "greedily" indicates that Uncle Vernon thinks there may be some money in it for him. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Uncle Vernon had been trying to find 12GP all year, while Harry has been at Hogwarts. Can't you imagine him trying to locate an unplottable house with a Fidelius Charm on it? If he is frustrated by owls, imagine how frustrated such a house would make him!! hehe

Solitaire

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Mediwitch - Aug 13, 2006 7:11 pm (#247 of 277)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Oh Solitaire! LOL - THAT would be justice!!

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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2006 11:16 pm (#248 of 277)

I figure he will greet Harry--assuming he sees him--with a remark like this:

"Well, so much for that house you inherited! It doesn't even exist. I thought I'd check it out for you. I even took a whole day off work to do it. I drove up and down that stupid street, but there isn't even a number 12 there! Stupid old man! What does he know? Who'd want to leave you a house? I thought it was too good to be true!" walks away muttering to himself as Harry chokes back a giggle.

Solitaire

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Deb Zawacki - Aug 15, 2006 5:46 pm (#249 of 277)

Well can you just imagine Petunia and Mrs. Black? Heh Heh... Or how about tons-o-fun Dudley trying to take down Kreacher.... Vernon needs a couple of well-placed Doxie kisses!!!!!

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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 20, 2006 5:58 pm (#250 of 277)

I've had as much fun as anyone thinking about Vernon trying to find #12, but when you get right down to it, I think I believe if he tried to find it, he would. Dumbledore was the secret keeper and he told Vernon, Petunia and Dudley about the house. I think that would be good enough for them to be able to find it.

If #4 ever is attacked, I think it would be a great idea to stash the Dursleys at #12 and see how they reacted to it, however. I even wonder if that was the point of Dumbledore telling them about the house at all. Why did he have to tell Harry about the house and Kreacher in front of them? Why even tell them, unless they will need to know at some point? Maybe Hermione and Ron (to his distaste) will have to help the family escape and adjust to their new hiding place?

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The Trio At Privet Drive and More... (Post 251 to 277)

Post  Elanor on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:03 am

Mediwitch - Aug 20, 2006 6:32 pm (#251 of 277)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Die Zimtzicke: I've had as much fun as anyone thinking about Vernon trying to find #12, but when you get right down to it, I think I believe if he tried to find it, he would.

Except that Sirius said, "My father put every security measure known to Wizard-kind on it when he lived here. It's Unplottable, so Muggles could never come and call..." (OoP, ch 6, p. 115 - Scholastic hardbound). I imagine that includes muggle-repelling charms, too. So even though Vernon knows it's the headquarters to the OoP, he still shouldn't be able to find the actual, physical house. He just knows it exists and is the HQ.

I also love the idea of the Dursleys at #12, but I think Harry (maybe with Ron and Hermione) will have to take them there.

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Solitaire - Aug 20, 2006 8:43 pm (#252 of 277)

Since the Dursleys are not magical, I do not believe they will be able to see 12GP without the help of a Witch, Wizard, or House-elf. JM2K, of course ...

Solitaire

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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 21, 2006 9:29 am (#253 of 277)

I think the charm Dumbledore put on it might have superceded the other charms, but I can't prove it, naturally. It just seems liek Fidelius would be more powerful than a muggle repelling charm put up to keep away peddlers, for example. Would Sirius' father even have considered the fact that some muggles know about the magical world? We don't know. Being secret keeper is important. A big deal was made about it. Then the secret keeper tells the Dursleys about the house? WHY?

Like I said earlier, maybe Ron or Hermione (or Harry) will have to take them there for their protection, or maybe it's something else, but I think there has to be some reason that the Dursleys were told about it. Otherwise there's no point to them even knowing. Dumbleodre would have known that they'd be interestsed in Harry inheriting a house. He could have just as easily talked to Harry about that privately after they left the Dursleys.

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Mediwitch - Aug 21, 2006 10:16 am (#254 of 277)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Maybe this is nitpicking (and isn't that what we all do here? ), but further along in the conversation I quoted above, Sirius says that Dumbledore added his protections to those placed by his (Sirius's) father. I still agree there might be a reason for the Dursleys to have heard that #12 GP is HQ.

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Soul Search - Aug 21, 2006 11:00 am (#255 of 277)

I agree that Dumbledore mentioning #12 in front of the Dursleys is fishey. Certainly means something. Just some musings, for now.

Dumbledore not only told Harry that he had inherited #12, but confirmed it when Vernon asked, and further made a bigger deal of it with Kreacher. All that makes it more significant than just a casual mention.

Dumbledore also announced to the Dursleys that #12 was headquarters for the Order. Unnecessary, since Harry already knew that. Dumbledore could have used some simple cryptic reference and Harry would have understood. So, Dumbledore (and JKR) meant for the Dursleys to know about the Order of the Pheonix and #12.

Since Dumbledore is secret keeper for the Order, he has revealed #12 as Order HQ to the Dursleys. (but, of course, they can't tell anyone else.)

I also note that neither Harry, Ron, nor Hermione could have told the Dursleys about the headquarters of the Order of the Pheonix, but could tell them about Harry's inherited house. (I think.)

If Harry, Ron, or Hermione had needed to take the Dursleys to #12, they could, since they know the "secret." The Dursleys would have been confused a bit, but they could have been led into the house.

Now, the Dursleys could find #12, without help. My guess is that the Dursleys will have to flee #4, and will go to #12, without being led there by anyone.

I do wonder, though, if Harry realizes that Dumbledore revealed the secret to the Dursleys?

We do have strong hints that the Dursleys will be at #12 Grimmauld Place. What fun!

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Choices - Aug 21, 2006 11:25 am (#256 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Soul Search - "So, Dumbledore (and JKR) meant for the Dursleys to know about the Order of the Pheonix and #12."

Or could it have been that she was just repeating that information for the reader? She does that in every book just in case someone has picked up that book to read and has not read the previous books. I'm not saying you are wrong, just that there may be other possibilities.

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Soul Search - Aug 21, 2006 11:43 am (#257 of 277)

Choices,

" ... she was just repeating that information for the reader?"

Actually, that makes more sense than the Dursleys finding their way to #12.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 21, 2006 11:55 am (#258 of 277)

Building upon the comments and insights of Soul Search in this post Soul Search, "+ The Trio At Privet Drive and More ..." #255, 21 Aug 2006 11:00 am, is it possible that the Trio and Ginny will themselves evacuate the Dursley's to 12 Grimmauld Place, and that Petunia will reveal some pertinent information, or as they are retreating from Number 4 Privet Drive that Petunia will retrieve something important from the house?

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Die Zimtzicke - Aug 21, 2006 2:09 pm (#259 of 277)

Yes, I always thought that was possible. I just do not think Ginny will be there. I don't know why she would be. But the trio, yes. It's very possible. Petunia probably knows a lot more than she lets on.

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legolas returns - Aug 21, 2006 2:27 pm (#260 of 277)

I can just imagine how much Uncle Vernon will blow his top if Ron and Hernione come round. You will remember how mad he went when Ron phoned for Harry in POA. It was the maddest that Harry had seen him get. I cant imagine that Vernon will be happy to see his friends in the flesh. I imagine there will be many objects flung etc and the house will combust.

I would love to see the Dursley family in #12. Pertunia would never have to leave the house again I can just imagine Duddley too frightened to move.

Muggles do not seem to see the Leaky Cauldron but Hermione manages to bring her parents through the other side and into Gringotts. I would imagine that Harry could bring the Dursleys into #12 in a similar fashion assuming that what Dumbledore told them was the equivalent of Harrys written information on the HQ location. I wonder if the nasty protection Sirius father put on the house has been removed though.

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Mediwitch - Aug 21, 2006 6:11 pm (#261 of 277)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Based on Sirius's comments in OoP, I would expect that his father's protections still exist. See my previous posts Mediwitch, "+ The Trio At Privet Drive and More ..." #251, 20 Aug 2006 6:32 pm and Mediwitch, "+ The Trio At Privet Drive and More ..." #254, 21 Aug 2006 10:16 am.

EDIT: WOO HOO! I actually did the links!

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Hoot Owl - Aug 24, 2006 12:02 pm (#262 of 277)

Teacher
Why would Ginny be at #4 Privet Drive? She may accompany her brother and her friend to help Harry leave his home, for the last time. Or just to meet his family. Or maybe to see where he grew up.

Or JKR may just want to show us Petunia's reaction upon seeing a small redheaded witch in the arms of a young wizard who looks ' remarkably like James Potter' in her front hallway!

Or maybe not. Lots of possible reasons.

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haymoni - Aug 24, 2006 12:11 pm (#263 of 277)

Ooh - that's nice, Hoot Owl!

I thought Hermione would be the one to trigger a response from Pet, but a Lily-look-alike sounds even better!

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Deb Zawacki - Aug 26, 2006 5:21 pm (#264 of 277)

OOO maybe Petunia has something that is a horcrux that she was told to keep safe in her house until Harry is of age.

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Solitaire - Aug 26, 2006 8:06 pm (#265 of 277)

Now, the Dursleys could find #12, without help. My guess is that the Dursleys will have to flee #4, and will go to #12, without being led there by anyone.

I disagree. They might find Grimmauld Place, but I doubt they will ever be able to find #12 without someone to take them there. Remember that Harry had to be told how to "see" it? Remember, too, what Harry said about the Leaky Cauldron: "If Hagrid hadn't pointed it out, Harry wouldn't have noticed it was there. The people hurrying by didn't glance at it. Their eyes slid from the big book shop on one side to the record shop on the other as if they couldn't see the Leaky Cauldron at all. In fact, Harry had the most peculiar feeling that only he and Hagrid could see it."

The Dursleys are not magical. I do not believe they could find the house without help.

Solitaire

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Deb Zawacki - Aug 27, 2006 6:34 am (#266 of 277)

We were told that if a muggle stumbled upon Hogwart's they would see a run-down ruin of a place--although I am wondering how they could block out any people seen.

With Dumbledore dead I don't know how many of his charms and protection spells would remain in effect--maybe the Dursely's would see an abandoned old junky house with a horrible lawn and the neighbor's garbage piled up and just laugh that Harry had inherited junk.

BUT, if DE's were going to ATTACK Privet Drive they wouldn't have time to escape, so if they were going to go into the house it would be because they were moved there--by Harry or the Order, even in an emergency apparate/disapparate on the arm of a wizard or witch. I can see them standing inbetween the two houses and somehow accidentally saying the words needed to make the house visible.

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Solitaire - Aug 27, 2006 9:14 am (#267 of 277)

The way Sirius talked, his father had made the house unplottable, even to Wizards. That spell obviously hadn't worn off. My point was that Harry, a Wizard, couldn't see 12GP. He had to be told to look and concentrate on what had been written on the paper in order to see it. How on earth would the Dursleys--the Muggliest Muggles ever--know to do this without having been told beforehand? Alas, this is not the 12GP thread, so I won't post anymore about this particular issue.

Solitaire

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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 29, 2006 1:57 am (#268 of 277)

Three firends, three Dursley's. Could be a case of alongside aparation. Or could Hermione create a portkey (or three)? I can see the numbers matching being important.

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Soul Search - Sep 5, 2006 10:19 am (#269 of 277)

SS hints for #4 Privet Drive.

As Hagrid is delivering Harry to #4 Privet Drive, he says to Dumbledore:

"No, sir -- house was almost destroyed, but I got him out all right before the Muggles started swarmin' around."

So, we have an example of a magical conflict destroying a house (Godric's Hollow.)

When Vernon and Petunia are discussing taking Harry to the zoo:

"You could just leave me here," Harry put in hopefully ... ."

Aunt Petunia looked as though she'd just swallowed a lemon.

"And come back and find the house in ruins?" she snarled.

"I won't blow up the house," said Harry, but they weren't listening.

I always thought this "house in ruins" accusation was a bit extreme. We have no suggestion that Harry caused any damage to #4 Privet Drive. Where did this come from?

Sounds like we have a hint that #4 Privet is going to be destroyed by a magical conflict (but not by Harry). Combine this with Dumbledore's talking about #12 Grimmauld Place in HBP and we have hints that there will be a fight, #4 will be destroyed, and the Dursleys will be taken (or just go) to #12.

At the least, should all that happen, we will have our expected backstory hints.

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haymoni - Sep 5, 2006 10:34 am (#270 of 277)

I could understand Pet saying that they would come home and find the house a mess or find the house filthy, but "in ruins" implies a bit more.

Apparently they have no problem with Mrs. Figg's house being in ruins!

I just don't think the Dursleys hold much info in terms of the Horcrux Hunt. I think Pet can tell Harry about Lily's past and possibly something about Godric's Hollow, but other than that, I think they are pretty useless.

I don't think they are even worth Voldy's time.

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Choices - Sep 5, 2006 11:09 am (#271 of 277)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think Petunia heard that when her sister was killed, the house was left in ruins. Naturally she likes to blame Harry for everything, so she blames the fact that the Godric's Hollow house was in ruins on him. She fears that if she leaves him home alone, she will return to find her house in ruins - blown up or destroyed by some magical catastrophe of Harry's doing.

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Soul Search - Sep 5, 2006 11:20 am (#272 of 277)

Choices,

That's what I thought too, until Dumbledore told the Dursleys about #12 Grimmauld Place. Now, I am suspicious.

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painting sheila - Sep 6, 2006 1:30 pm (#273 of 277)

Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Doesn't the protection state that "where his mother's blood resides"? Couldn't that mean that as long as Petunia is with Harry - where ever he is - he is safe? Is the protection with Petunia or withthe house?

Sorry if you all have already covered this. I skipped around in reading the thread.

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haymoni - Sep 7, 2006 6:19 am (#274 of 277)

Yes - why doesn't Harry just carry around a vial of Petunia's blood?

Eeeewww!!

That's why!

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painting sheila - Sep 7, 2006 7:47 pm (#275 of 277)

Doing one of the things I love best . . .
Sounds like Anelina Jollie and Billy Bob Thornton. That worked out well for them dodn't it?

(I agree - EEEWWW!!!)

But seriously - COuldn't Harry take Petunia back to Ron's house? Back to #12? Back to Hogwarts?

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S.E. Jones - Sep 7, 2006 9:52 pm (#276 of 277)

Let it snow!
I don't think so as Dumbledore said something about the Dursleys allowing Harry living space and that's why he could call the place "home" which makes it sound like he has to be wherever she calls home as well, at least to me it does.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Sep 8, 2006 12:59 am (#277 of 277)

Dumbledore also said that the protection would run out when Harry came of age, and wanted Harry to visit Privett Drive once more so the protection lasted till his 17th birthday.

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