Value of PS/SS in the series?

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Value of PS/SS in the series?

Post  Elanor on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:22 am

Value of PS/SS in the series?

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

Finn BV - Jun 27, 2006 9:21 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Jul 31, 2006 1:49 am
I recently got my mom to read OoP, which she finished and thoroughly enjoyed. She had read PS to me a number of years ago, and has seen all the films. I decided to have her start with OoP because there would be no excuse of having seen most of the plot elements in a film. She is quite interested in continuing on, and asked what's next. I was going to say HBP, but considered that to understand lots of the plot there, you need to have read CS. And meanwhile, as I thought of taking her back to the series, I said, why not start with PS? Mom is by no means an expert on the text of the first one, as it has been a number of years.

But I got to thinking –– is there anything really in PS (Besides a bezoar, I suppose) that comes along later in the series? If you already have a decent introduction to the characters (which you would get fine by watching all the movies and reading OoP), why read PS? I think PS's sole purpose is to introduce the reader to the story, and get the plot in motion.

So I am curious: does anybody find any other value of PS/SS in the series? That is, besides to serve as an intro (and to mention a bezoar).
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Value of PS/SS in the series? (Post 1 to 50)

Post  Elanor on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:23 am

Solitaire - Jun 27, 2006 11:22 pm (#1 of 84)
I think one gets a much stronger sense of how horrible the Dursleys are in PS/SS, because we see so much of them. We also get a really strong impression of their feelings about the Wizarding World. The book also helps us see how far Harry has come ... and which things still seem to plague him. Even more, though, I think PS/SS really exposes how the Trio was forged from three people who are so different. It helps one to understand the evolution of that friendship and what each of the three brings to it. JM2K ...

Solitaire

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haymoni - Jun 28, 2006 6:08 am (#2 of 84)

You also find out how Hogwarts works.

I'm guessing until we read Book 7, we won't really know how important Book 1 is.

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Choices - Jun 28, 2006 9:50 am (#3 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think book one is the foundation of the series. It is important to start at the beginning, even if you are familiar with the plot and the characters from seeing the movie. The book just has things the movie doesn't, and they should not be missed.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 28, 2006 11:13 am (#4 of 84)

There are sveral important subplots that have their genesis in PS. First, the importance of the position of the Defense Against the Dark Arts is establsihed in PS. The fate of Quirrell at the end of PS established a pattern that continued through to HBP and the flight from Hogwarts of Professor Snape. Second, PS chapter four establishes the fact that Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts laying the foundation for CoS. Additionally, PS introduces a very important character in the series Peter Pettigrew in the form of Scabbers.

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Kerfuffle - Jun 28, 2006 11:29 am (#5 of 84)

I just finished a re-read of PS/SS and think it has many series implications. 1. How often Neville is involved in the adventures, his bravery and his quiet strength in trying to do the right thing.

2. The Norbert storyline, setting up an adventure on the astronomy tower, and involving Harry, Hermione, Draco, and Neville, and leading to the detention in the forbidden forest.

3. Its the book so far with the most about Hagrid, who I think may play a larger (no pun intended) role than we are aware of.

4. The mirror of erised, and the longing of Harry to belong.

5. The final 7 tasks/protections that the trio has to work through to reach the stone and try to save it.

I vote for read Book 1, it is the foundation of the whole series and it doesn't take very long to read. Its just enchanting.

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shepherdess - Jun 28, 2006 7:16 pm (#6 of 84)

55 year old mother of 3, step-mother of 2, grandmom to 3, living in Oklahoma
In my opinion, it would be best if she started with PS/SS, but she doesn't have to be an expert on the text of book one before moving on.

My suggestion: Suggest to her that it might be good for her to refresh her memory about some of the things listed above by others; but if she resists, or if taking time to do that is going to make her lose her interest in finishing the series, then by all means let her go on to CS. Let her make the final choice.

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Finn BV - Jun 29, 2006 5:32 am (#7 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Thanks so much for all of your suggestions. We'll have a "quiz" this weekend.

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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 8:40 am (#8 of 84)

Oh, excellent. Ask her the three questions Snape asks Harry on his first day of Potions. If she can't answer them, well obviously, she has to read PS/SS.

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Lilly P - Jun 29, 2006 8:49 am (#9 of 84)

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PS is a great family read-aloud. I read it out loud to my daughter every night after dinner loud enough that my husband could hear even though he was pretending not to listen (manley U.S. Marines don't read children's books you see) but by the end he said "I want to know more about this shady Draco charecter, he sound like trouble. If you really want to get your mom hooked Finn, start with PS/SS. And if you have the time, read it togeather! Family read along hour is our favorite time of day! (when my husbands not over-seas of course!) I bet if YOU read it to HER like she did for you when you were a child you would score mucho brownie points, we Mom's just LOVE that stuff! P.S. this is a great tip for thoes of you on the "fans with significant others that dont understand HP" thread! trust me it works, Mr. P has been a fan ever since!

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Magic Words - Jun 29, 2006 11:01 am (#10 of 84)

Oh, yes, I now must tell the story of how my sister got our younger cousin hooked on HP, despite said cousin's refusal to pick it up because "the kids at school said it was babyish." She brought the first book with her to a sleepover at my cousin's house. Then she shut the bedroom door, sat down with her back against it to prevent any escapes, and started reading out loud--really loud, I might add, to be heard over the shouting and laughing of our cousin's two little sisters. By the end of the chapter my cousin offered to let her read more tomorrow. I was so very proud. :-)

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Finn BV - Jun 29, 2006 7:28 pm (#11 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Lilly, I don't know about reading it aloud to her (time constrainsts… ahem ), but your have further encouraged me to hand her PS. I must say, I don't know how willing Mom will be, because she has read it, but I wanted to assure myself it wouldn't kill anybody if she skipped over it.

Magic Words, thanks for your anecdote.

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Solitaire - Jun 29, 2006 9:52 pm (#12 of 84)

Do you by any chance have it on CD? She could listen while driving to and from work, doing errands, etc.

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Finn BV - Jun 30, 2006 3:45 pm (#13 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Well, my mom takes the train to work, and since she works 9-5 days and my dad is a teacher, he and I are usually the ones doing errands… My mom doesn't get in the car that often – at least for longer rides –, but if she does, my dad is driving most of the time. But, we don't have it on CD anyway…

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Mediwitch - Jun 30, 2006 7:57 pm (#14 of 84)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
The train would be even better as she doesn't have to concentrate on driving! Come on, Finn, don't you have an MP3 player she can borrow? (Can you tell I'm a big fan of the audiobooks? They get me through lots of long drives and basement cleaning sessions!)

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Finn BV - Jul 1, 2006 9:33 am (#15 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Hehe, I don't know. I think she would rather read on the train. We'll see, but I don't think the audiobooks are the answer.

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Mediwitch - Jul 1, 2006 9:45 pm (#16 of 84)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Alas, I can't get you hooked on the audiobooks, too!

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colbow - Jul 2, 2006 4:38 pm (#17 of 84)

Just finishing PS/SS, I quite enjoyed it again ( about the 67th time I've read it) I really like the mirror of erised chapter, as we find out that Dumbledore doesn't need a invisablity cloak to become invisible. I also liked the ending where Neville won the House cup for Gryffindor...SO lots of good reading in PS/SS

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vball man - Jul 8, 2006 9:41 pm (#18 of 84)

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I think that the biggest value of PS is the exchange between McGonagal and DD at the beginning. When DD goes to leave Harry with at Privet Drive. I think that we get some nice bits of info there.

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Steve Newton - Jul 10, 2006 11:34 am (#19 of 84)

Librarian
I am using this thread as an excuse to reread SS. I am trying to make a list of things that are brought up that become important in later books but are only mentioned in SS. I will, of course offer some speculation.

Chapter 1

The newscaster is named Ted. Ted Tonks?

Dumbledore appears at the far corner of Privet Drive. Perhaps an indication of wizardly good manners as described in HBP.

His watch. Just seems like something that will come up.

Dedalus Diggle appears in OOTP as part of the advance guard. I like Dedalus.

The motorcycle. Has yet to reappear but I keep hoping. The last we see of it Hagrid is taking it back to Sirius. It doesn't seem like Sirius ever got it back. I don't think that Hagrid would give up such a way cool item. I think it will be back.

Sirius Black It seem I have heard mention of him is a couple of the later books.

Godric's Hollow is mentioned and most of our questions have yet to be answered. Should be big in the final book.

Dumbledore mentioned that he was fond of his scar but it has yet to resurface.

The letter left with Harry will, I think be back in the final book.

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Choices - Jul 10, 2006 12:03 pm (#20 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I am re-reading PS/SS and I have noted some things.....

The first dream that Harry has at Hogwarts foreshadows what happens on the tower in book 6 - Draco turns into Snape and then there is a flash of green light.

Harry also mentions that he has dreamed that some forgotten relative comes to take him away from the Dursleys - in book 3 Sirius offers to have Harry come live with him. I am beginning to wonder if Harry doesn't have a bit of Seer in him. Some of his dreams are just memories - like the one with the flying motorcycle - but some are showing future events.

In the Potion's class, Snape comments on the perfect way Draco has stewed his "horned slugs"....Slughorn shows up in book 6.

Snape has them brew a potion to cure boils....Neville messes it up and breaks out in boils and Snape fusses at Harry for not telling Neville not to add the quills at the wrong time. In later books Snape punishes (takes points) Hermione for telling Neville how to correct a potion mistake. ** Make up your mind Severus! ** Also, if Snape teaches them to brew a potion to cure boils, and Neville goofs and breaks out in boils, why does Snape send him to the hospital wing instead of just giving him some potion to cure his boils? Hmmmmmm??

We also learn that the Trophy Room "is never locked" and there are cups and things in the cases. I think we will see this again in book 7 when Harry goes Horcrux hunting....Hufflepuff's cup will be there.

That's as far as I've gotten - I start ch. 10 tonight.

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Steve Newton - Jul 10, 2006 12:20 pm (#21 of 84)

Librarian
Good catch on the dream. I know that the dreams are important but have never taken the time to follow up.

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Soul Search - Jul 10, 2006 2:25 pm (#22 of 84)

Edited Jul 10, 2006 3:02 pm
Steve Newton,

There is the owl that flies by the window just before Vernon leaves for work, but isn't noticed by the Dursleys. Since it was daytime, had to be a post owl that was instructed to deliver a letter ONLY to Petunia. Probably from Dumbledore.

The newscaster "Ted" mentions Bonfire Night, which is related to Guy Fawkes. We have Fawkes the Pheonix and, if you look up the names of the conspirators, there are names that are familiar to us (Robert Catesby, Thomas Wintour, Jack Wright, Thomas Percy, Guy Fawkes, Robert Wintour, Christopher (Kit) Wright, Robert Keyes, Thomas Bates, John Grant, Ambrose Rookwood, Francis Tresham, and Everard Digby.) Not sure the names signify anything; could just be common British names.

The "don't ask questions," (something Petunia doesn't want to tell), and the squeaky stair.

There were more on the "Good Old Aunt Petunia" topic.

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Choices - Jul 10, 2006 6:15 pm (#23 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I never thought of the owl bringing Petunia a letter - when she found Harry she screamed as if totally surprised to find him there. I don't think she was warned in a letter to expect him (except in the letter left with baby Harry). Had she been warned, I think they would have packed up and left home for awhile. They were not exactly overjoyed to be saddled with Harry.

I have seen it suggested that the large, tawny owl was Dumbledore, scoping out the place before leaving Harry there.

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Vulture - Jul 10, 2006 9:40 pm (#24 of 84)

It's just my opinion, but I like it !!
I think Philosopher's Stone is well worth reading for all sorts of reasons, but here are two off the top of my head:

(1) In Book 1, several chapters go by before Harry ever learns he's a wizard, which sketch in detail his unhappy but ordinary life with the Dursleys. When Hagrid comes and tells him who he is, Harry regards this as the greatest thing that's ever happened to him. He returns many times to this feeling in later books, of how lucky he is to be a wizard and be at Hogwarts (unlike many of his friends who take their wizard lives for granted), and we wouldn't fully identify with this if it were not for Book 1.

(2) Partly following on from point (1), Harry regards Hagrid for ages as one of the coolest things in creation. After Norbert, there is a tendency (both by the characters and reader) to treat Hagrid as a joke and forget his down-to-earth wisdom, but that original bond with Hagrid survives in the background and surfaces now and again. Without Book 1, I don't think we'd fully appreciate it. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Hagrid, unnoticed, often provides a parental role for Harry _ take for example his words to Harry at the end of Book 4.

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haymoni - Jul 11, 2006 8:21 am (#25 of 84)

Choices - I think Pet was just told about her sister's death with the first owl. She may have actually been relieved that her "freak" sister was gone.

And then...Surprise! Here's baby Harry on her doorstep.

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Finn BV - Jul 11, 2006 6:17 pm (#26 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Vulture, I like your point #2 very much – that's an excellent reason to go read it – but I suppose the point I'm trying to make is, is there anything special lacking from the movie that is essential to reading the rest of the series? I would say #2 is, but #1 you certainly sense from the film.

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Amilia Smith - Jul 11, 2006 7:32 pm (#27 of 84)

Well, the rules of Quidditch are not explained properly in the movie. I saw the first two movies before I read the books, and I could not understand why we even needed other players on the pitch if they won the game whenever Harry caught the snitch. Not sure how much that is going to play into the rest of the series, though. And it is something you could explain easily to her.

To be honest, I have told people that do not care for reading, or do not enjoy reading when they already know the ending, or do not have the time for much reading, or whatever, that it is OK to skip books 1 & 2 and just watch the movies.* The biggest disadvantage I can see to this is the possibilty of being put off HP because those two movies are just kind of meh. Of course, I had the complete opposite reaction. I decided that there MUST be something more to this HP craze than what was in those movies. I was right, the books were much better. However, since your mom has already seen the movies and is still willing to read the books, I think you are safe from this reation. If she likes the rest of the books enough, she may well come back to PS on her own.

On that note, I think you would even be OK just sending her directly on to HBP. With my YA lit class last semester, several of the students had never read any other HP (shocking, I know), yet were assigned HBP. They were all able to pick up on the story just fine. When asked if they were able to understand what was going on, they all said that while they were sure there was a lot there that went over their heads, they got the gist just fine. One mentioned that she rented the first movie in order to get familiar with the terminology, but then she was fine. Several others asked their children for definitions on the terminology. But that is the only thing anyone mentioned having trouble with. And this would not be a problem for your mother. Jo is very good about recapping what has happened in previous books without getting didactic.

JM2K, of course. I do not mean to imply that PS is not valuable, or that a serious HP fan could get away with just watching the movie. But I do not think that there is anyone who would be unable to follow the storyline on its most basic level if they watched the movie and skipped the book.

Mills.

*Now, movies 3 & 4, on the other hand, were definitely meant to be companions to the books, not replacements for the books.

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Finn BV - Jul 11, 2006 8:54 pm (#28 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Mills, your response has been most helpful. Thanks for sharing about your YA class – that is what I was looking for somebody to say, that people were able to pick up anywhere. I think the thing about Columbus' adaptations of the films is that, while true to the books (and thus fair enough to replace them, for an average fan), they were not interesting. Three and four were captivating as movies, but couldn't directly follow the storyline without straying.

I think I will just give her HBP for now. As many others on this thread have suggested, there are many values for reading PS (and CS) for somebody who would, say, want to find a place at this forum. However, my mom has no reason to go discussing the books as we do, and thus, as long as she's solid on the story, which she is, she can move on.

Thank you again.

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Amilia Smith - Jul 12, 2006 2:30 am (#29 of 84)

I'm glad to be of help. :-) I was a little worried writing that post, advocating watching the movies instead of reading the books and all, and I am glad you saw what I meant. If you are going to come up with theories and discuss the symbolism and all the other fun things we do here, there is no substitute for actually reading the book. But if you are just looking for a fun read or a way to connect with your son, you can get away with watching the movie.

There is also something to be said for keeping the momentum of the story going. Continuing on from OotP to HBP without backtracking for backstory. Ideally, she will be so enchanted by Harry that she will be excited to go back and read them all. :-)

And I completely agree with your assessment of movies 1 & 2 vs. movies 3 & 4.

Mills.

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Steve Newton - Jul 12, 2006 7:35 am (#30 of 84)

Librarian
A few more things that appear in SS and come back in later books.

Chapter 2-Mrs Figg is mentioned and becomes a semi-major character in OOTP.

Chapter 3-Aunt Marge-She is big in POA (Sorry I have been trying to hold that back and lost control.)

Chapter 4-Hagrid is Keeper of Keys. Sounds like it will come back later.

Hagrid "Suppose the mystery is why You-Know-Who never tried to get 'em on his side before?" Perhaps a twist that is coming.

Hagrid's expulsion is a main point in CS.

Chapter 5-Do Goblin's have their own kind of magic? It sounds like they might and, if so, it should pop up in book 7.

Hagrid knits. In HBP Dumbledore says that he like knitting patterns. Along with Dumbledore's trust this may indicate that Hagrid is part of the pattern that Dumbledore is knitting.

The Leaky Cauldron. Leaky, or problematical, cauldrons are a recurring theme. From Percy's famous report to Neville's problems in Potions.

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Finn BV - Jul 12, 2006 6:15 pm (#31 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Mills – ideally, yes!

Steve – on goblins, that's an excellent thought. We haven't heard much of our little friends since PS, have we? Hmm… And it took me about three times to get the Aunt Marge joke…

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Mediwitch - Jul 12, 2006 6:54 pm (#32 of 84)

"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
Steve Newton: Chapter 3-Aunt Marge-She is big in POA (Sorry I have been trying to hold that back and lost control.)

SPEW!!! I couldn't hold that back!

I have worried about the goblins. We have heard several times about the vicious goblin rebellions, and how clever and powerful they are.

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nthdavid - Jul 13, 2006 2:01 am (#33 of 84)

Well, the statue in the ministry of magic has a witch, wizard, centaur, elf, and goblin. Dobby the elf has helped Harry and is his friend. Firenze the centaur has helped Harry and says that he set himself against what was in the forest-vapormort. Ron and Hermoine have said they will stand with him. So he may need a goblin to complete the set.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 13, 2006 3:45 am (#34 of 84)

How about Gryphook. Could a horcrux be hidden in Gringotts?

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Steve Newton - Jul 13, 2006 5:45 am (#35 of 84)

Librarian
nth, you're right about the Statue of Magical Brethren. It would indicate that the Goblins do have their own kind of magic.

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Steve Newton - Jul 14, 2006 6:25 am (#36 of 84)

Librarian
A couple more items from chapter 5 that come back in later books. Hagrid "Yer not ter use magic in the Muggle world except in special circumstances." A key point in the next 2 books.

Mention of Lily's first wand. Will we learn of another?

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Choices - Jul 14, 2006 12:44 pm (#37 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
More possible foreshadowing -

Filch helping Snape to bandage his leg - is Filch Madam Pince's boyfriend? And does Madam Pince turn out to be Snape's Mom?

Ron swearing to get Malfoy "one of these days" - will he do this in book 7?

Harry, Ron and Hermione are afraid to ask Madam Pince about Flamel because they don't want to risk Snape finding out - they obviously think that Snape and Madam Pince speak frequently ......is this a foreshadowing of a close relationship between Madam Pince and Snape?

Harry and Ron are copying down different ways to treat werewolf bites - a foreshadowing of what happens to Bill?

Quirrell, after his talk with Snape in the forest, stands quite still as if he is petrified - foreshadowing of students being petrified in COS?

Harry looks up "dittany" - foreshadowing of what Snape tells Draco after the Sectumsempra? - dittany will help his wounds heal without scaring.

Hermione reciting the 12 uses of dragon's blood - will this knowledge come in handy in book 7?

There are 7 enchantments protecting the Sorcerer's Stone - 7 is a very powerful magical number - Voldemort thinks so too, as we find out in HBP.

Hermione and Harry leave the invisibility cloak on top of the tower when sending off Norbert - foreshadowing of another time we will see the cloak up on that tower?

These are all things I found between chapters 10 and 14 of PS/SS.

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Steve Newton - Jul 15, 2006 10:03 am (#38 of 84)

Librarian
Chapter 6-The twins tell Ron about Lee's tarantula. We don't realize until COS that this is a joke.

What's up with Trevor? Still no significant answer.

Chapter 7-The Hat "There's nothing hidden in your heat The Sorting Hat can't see." Possible hints of the horcrux issue.

We have yet to be told the stories of most of the ghosts.

I think that we will here the school song again in book 7. This time in harmony.

The dream seems to foretell the tower scene in HBP. Not sure of the role of Quirrell.

Chapter 8-Teh vanishing step comes back in GOF.

I think choices pointed out about Malfoy stewing the horned slugs.

"Why did Snape hate him so much?" I don't think that we have an answer yet.

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Soul Search - Jul 15, 2006 4:48 pm (#39 of 84)

Steve Newton,

Were you suggesting that the Sorting Hat would know, or knew, that Harry possessed a Voldemort Horcrux? If so, I think it deserves more attention.

Is that why the hat said he would do well in Slytherin?

Did the Hat tell Dumbledore about the extra soul bit in Harry?

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Choices - Jul 15, 2006 5:59 pm (#40 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think the Sorting Hat may have sensed the "powers" that Voldemort transferred into Harry, just as Trelawney did when she said Harry must have been born in winter.

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TheSaint - Jul 15, 2006 7:08 pm (#41 of 84)

"The dream seems to foretell the tower scene in HBP. Not sure of the role of Quirrell." Steve

Perhaps a hint that Quirrell was on Volde's side or Volde was on Quirrell's inside...lol.

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Steve Newton - Jul 15, 2006 7:50 pm (#42 of 84)

Librarian
Soul Search, I was mostly waffling on the issue but note that it could indicate the presence of a Horcrux in Harry.

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haymoni - Jul 16, 2006 6:59 am (#43 of 84)

Steve - why was Lee's tarantula a joke?

A boy with dreadlocks was surrounded by a small crowd. "Give us a look, Lee, go on." The boy lifted the lid of a box in his ahrms, and the people around him shrieked and yelled as something inside poked out a long hairy leg.

Later the twins tell Ron - "Listen, we're going down the middle of the train - Lee Jordan's got a giant tarantula down there."

Are you saying that the Twins are the Masters of Understatement???

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Steve Newton - Jul 16, 2006 1:06 pm (#44 of 84)

Librarian
Lee's tarantula was a joke because in COS we learn that Ron HATES spiders. Probably because of something the twins did.

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nthdavid - Jul 17, 2006 12:07 am (#45 of 84)

I guess I learned from the deleted scenes of the movie that eggs come in packages of 10 in the UK, I have to buy dozens here in the US.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 17, 2006 3:33 am (#46 of 84)

nthdavid - not where I shop. They come in multiples of sixes here in England. I brought a pack of six in the last couple of days.

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azi - Jul 17, 2006 8:19 am (#47 of 84)

Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I think you can only get eggs in sixes and dozens in the UK. Never seen a 10 pack! Maybe elsewhere in the country.

Steve, if you remember, Fred and George used magic to change Ron's favourite teddy bear into a giant spider when he was younger (maybe you were alluding to that in your post anyway?)?

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Steve Newton - Jul 17, 2006 10:41 am (#48 of 84)

Librarian
I think so. Thanks.

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Choices - Jul 17, 2006 10:48 am (#49 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
When Harry was getting his Hogwarts letters at the Dursleys - he got letters folded up in the two dozen eggs the milkman delivered to Aunt Petunia.

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nthdavid - Jul 17, 2006 10:56 pm (#50 of 84)

Yes, I read the books. But in the deleted scene, the 'dozen' of eggs would only hold 10 eggs. Smile
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Value of PS/SS in the series? (Post 51 to 84)

Post  Elanor on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:24 am

timrew - Jul 18, 2006 3:31 pm (#51 of 84)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Sainsbury's does 10 eggs, Azi. There.......now you know how exciting my life is!

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azi - Jul 19, 2006 3:42 am (#52 of 84)

Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
Guess we can get eggs in all sorts of sizes!

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 20, 2006 5:06 am (#53 of 84)

Timrew - my local one doesn't. Yes I did go and check.... S Mungo's here I come.

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Thom Matheson - Jul 20, 2006 7:47 pm (#54 of 84)

So I was rereading my rag copy of PS/SS and came across Dumbledore's talk with Harry in the hospital wing. It's on page 299 of the American edition. "Quirrell, full of hatred, greed, and ambition, sharing his soul with Voldemort, could not touch you for this reason."

We know what happened to Quirrell but I never gave much thought to his soul. If he melded his with Voldemort's, how much does Voldemort have left that Harry will have to go after in book 7? Did Harry inadvertantly kill off a much needed soul?

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Steve Newton - Jul 21, 2006 5:57 am (#55 of 84)

Librarian
Things that return in later books.

Chapter 9-Dueling comes back in COS.

The Curse of the Bogies-could this be Ginny's Bat Bogey Hex?

The Trophy Room-Important in COS, maybe book 7.

Chapter 10-Nothing that I noticed.

Chapter 11-Dean's good drawing has come up several times but hasn't seemed particularly important yet.

Chapter 12-The Mirror may come back in Book 7.

Madam Pince-I am a strong believer in the MPISM theory. (Madam Pince is Snape's Mother.)

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geauxtigers - Jul 23, 2006 10:37 am (#56 of 84)

Yum!
We know what happened to Quirrell but I never gave much thought to his soul. If he melded his with Voldemort's, how much does Voldemort have left that Harry will have to go after in book 7? Did Harry inadvertantly kill off a much needed soul?

Thats a good thought Thom! I never noticed it before....hmmmm does that mean that maybe there is one less horcrux? I dunno, I don't see Dumbledore over looking that, but....I have to think on this one...good ideas though!

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Steve Newton - Jul 23, 2006 7:42 pm (#57 of 84)

Librarian
Chapter 13-Ron and Hermione practice the Leg Locker Curse. They get the idea from Draco. He sort of returns the favor in HBP.

Chapter 15-Hermione is "as still as a statue." A major plot point in POA.

There is mention of werewolves in the Forest. We've heard of them but so far Lupin is the only one we've seen there.

Chapter 16-The trio flops under a tree by the lake. Is this the same tree that is featured in Snape's Worst Memory? Also favored by the Marauders.

The Devil's Snare comes back in OOTP.

"Winged Keys" sounds an awful lot like Winky to me. A major role in GOF if so.

WARNING***

I started a chess thread a while back to I tend to see all of the books there. I'll be restrained.

The white chessmen have no faces. Sounds like the DEs we see in GOF.

The White Queen taking the knight seems to foreshadow Trixie killing Sirius in OOTP.

Ron has to be taken?

Chapter 17-Quirrell with 2 faces seems to definitely be a Janus image. Nathan Zimmerman has posted extensively on this. Search for his name and Janus and you should find it. The image recurs frequently.

Dumbledore doesn't answer Harry's question. There are major consequences later.

Neville gains the deciding points. I think that he will do this again in the battle with Voldemort.

The final scene with Quirrell I have found bothersome. Harry is dying, goes unconscious in the presence of the Stone which produces the Elixir of Life and in the presence of someone who knows how to use it. I don't know. Sometimes I think that Harry died here and was brought back by Dumbledore.

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Solitaire - Jul 23, 2006 9:21 pm (#58 of 84)

Sometimes I think that Harry died here and was brought back by Dumbledore.

Have we seen any instance in the six books in which someone is brought back to life? Is there any mention of its having happened in the past? It seems unlikely to me.

Solitaire

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haymoni - Jul 24, 2006 6:36 am (#59 of 84)

Well, the Stone was destroyed, so we really wouldn't be able to see it at work.

It's a possibility, but I'm guessing Harry wouldn't have spent so much time in the hospital wing if Dumbledore had given him The Elixir.

How do you get the Elixir? Does it just come out of the Stone when you need or do you have to take a little bit of the Stone and grind it up somehow?

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TheSaint - Jul 24, 2006 6:40 am (#60 of 84)

My guess is the later. Those who claimed to have made the stone seemed to speak of breaking off small pieces to mix with there 'potion' creating an abundance of gold.

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Steve Newton - Jul 24, 2006 7:59 am (#61 of 84)

Librarian
I can't remember where, but I think in SS, it says that the Stone produces the Elixir of Life. I can't check right now.

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Solitaire - Jul 24, 2006 12:05 pm (#62 of 84)

It is used to produce the Elixir of Life. Hermione tells us this. But can it bring someone back from the dead? That is very different from keeping someone alive indefinitely.

Solitaire

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Steve Newton - Jul 24, 2006 12:44 pm (#63 of 84)

Librarian
You all are probably right. Probably not back from the dead but I am suspicious, nevertheless.

I just noticed that my avatar seems to have expanded exponentially. It used to be fairly small.

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Choices - Jul 25, 2006 12:34 pm (#64 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think from the way the Elixir of Life works, Harry would have to keep drinking it to continue to live a long life. I don't think it brings people back to life, it just helps them to continue living long past their natural life span.

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haymoni - Jul 25, 2006 12:47 pm (#65 of 84)

It might have been enough to keep him alive long enough to get him to the hospital wing.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 25, 2006 1:26 pm (#66 of 84)

This discussion brings up an intersting line of speculation. A thought occurred to me? Dumbledore asserts that he saved Harry's life. the question this raised in my mind a question is it possible that Severus Snape assisted in the preparation of a small quantity of elixir in the eventuality that Harry challenged Voldemort and was severely injured?

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Choices - Jul 25, 2006 5:55 pm (#67 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I don't think the Elixir of Life has healing qualities. I would think that before a wizard partakes of the elixir, he/she would need to have a certain quality of life for it to work properly to prolong that life. I doubt the elixir improves the quality of life, rather it just extends what you already have. Just my opinion.

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Thom Matheson - Jul 25, 2006 7:44 pm (#68 of 84)

I see as just the opposite. I'm looking at it much like the Fountain of youth thing. If it keeps you, it must stop the aging process. To do that wouldn't it have to have some antibacterial type remedies? Bone won't get brittle, muscles won't atrophy, all that sort of thing. In order to stop the process, there would seem to have to have all those things, as well as the ability to heal any invasion of bacterial, or virus or any number of maladies that would come up in the course of your life.

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TheSaint - Jul 25, 2006 9:59 pm (#69 of 84)

If it stopped the aging process, Harry wouldn't not have grown at all.

It has been said that the Stone has the ability to be a panacea. Which always makes me laugh when Colin thinks Harry can cure Ron's slug problem.

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Soul Search - Jul 26, 2006 9:17 am (#70 of 84)

I think Steve Newton, with supporting comments by Choices, haymoni, Nathan Zimmermann, and Thom Matheson, have brought up a very interesting line of inquiry.

At the end of the fight in SS, how was Harry injured, by whom, and who saved him? Here's what we know:

"Quirrell screamed and tried to throw Harry off -- the pain in Harry's head was building -- he couldn't see -- he could only hear Quirrell's terrible shrieks and Voldemort's yells of, "KILL HIM! KILL HIM!" and other voices, maybe in Harry's own head , crying "Harry! Harry!"

He felt Quirrell's arm wrenched from his grasp, knew all was lost, and fell into blackness, down ... down ... down ..."
Harry is unconscientious for three days. "Everyone was so worried" (Hermione.) Dumbledore was waiting by his bedside when he woke up. Whatever happened to Harry, it was serious.

This brings up a few questions I had never considered before.

What caused the pain in Harry's head? Had to have been Voldemort trying to possess Harry in order to kill him. In the later discussion between Dumbledore and Harry, Dumbledore first mentions Harry's "love" as warding off Voldemort. We saw again in OotP that Voldemort has trouble possessing Harry.

Who shouted "Harry! Harry!"Dumbledore "returned just in time to save Harry." Must have been him shouting. This is more emotion we have ever seen from Dumbledore. It really must have been serious.

Who caused Harry's injury?Quirrell was out of action. Dumbledore also states that Quirrell died when Voldemort left his body. So, it must have been Voldemort.

What was the injury to Harry?Something dark arts, related to Voldemort trying to possess Harry, then leaving or being forced to leave, Harry. (Like what killed Quirrell.)

With an injury as serious as Harry's, and with the stone handy, I would not be surprised to learn that it was used to effect Harry's cure. I wonder if there are long term consequences of having taken the Elixir of Life, even just once?

We also learned in HBP that Dumbledore relies on Snape to cure dark arts injuries. Actually, we were hit over the head with it. So, Dumbledore would have called on Snape to treat Harry. But, it was never mentioned. Curious.

I wouldn't be surprised if Snape saving Harry in SS won't but come up in book seven. Snape will be gloating about it.

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Choices - Jul 26, 2006 9:32 am (#71 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Dumbledore explains to Harry that it was he who pulled Quirrell off Harry. Dumbledore tells Harry this when he visits Harry in the hospital wing.

I don't think the nature of the stone is to heal injuries, just to prolong life in it's natural state. It may work to prevent deterioration of the body, but I don't think it can heal injuries. Also, it must take a while to produce the Elixir of Life from the stone and I don't think Dumbledore (or Snape) had the time. I think just rest and Madame Pomfrey's ministrations took care of Harry. (Just my opinion of course.)

If Snape had helped to heal Harry I think it would definitely have been mentioned. We are told about other times when Snape helped to protect or help Harry, so had he helped this time, I'm sure it would have been noted by Dumbledore.

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Magic Words - Jul 26, 2006 3:19 pm (#72 of 84)

I assumed Harry was hurt and unconscious merely because of his proximity to Voldemort. In retrospect, it's a little odd that he was out for three days, since every other time he's near Voldemort his scar hurts but he doesn't pass out. Maybe it's just because this is the first time it's happened and he's unprepared. Maybe he would pass out every time Voldemort touched him, but his blood protects him just as it protects Voldemort.

Edit: I mean Voldemort sharing his blood.

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Steve Newton - Jul 26, 2006 5:55 pm (#73 of 84)

Librarian
Got it. From chapter 13-Nicholas Flamel

From Hermione's light reading. "The stone will transform any metal into pure gold. It also produces the Elixir of Life, which will make the drinker immortal."

I thought that the Stone was not used to produce the elixir but actually produces it. It would seem to be helpful for someone who was near death.

Just in passing please note that Harry was in the hospital for 3 days after, perhaps, "dying," and then bounces back. A hint of the theme which cannot be discussed.

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Choices - Jul 26, 2006 6:05 pm (#74 of 84)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"Just in passing please note that Harry was in the hospital for 3 days after, perhaps, "dying," and then bounces back. A hint of the theme which cannot be discussed."

Exactly....I was thinking that very thing. :-)

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haymoni - Jul 26, 2006 6:12 pm (#75 of 84)

So what do you do to get the Elixir out of it?

Squeeze it???

Soak it in water???

Walk past it 3 times, saying, "I need the Elixir. I need the Elixir. I need the Elixir."?

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Finn BV - Jul 26, 2006 6:22 pm (#76 of 84)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Ooh, good thinking, Steve.

Haymoni, that's what I thought! I figured perhaps the Elixir was stored inside of it? But yes, I have imagined Flamel squeezing it before, and drinking what comes out! LOL!

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Thom Matheson - Jul 26, 2006 6:31 pm (#77 of 84)

1 glass of water, toss in a stone, cover and shake not stir. the perfect martini.

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haymoni - Jul 26, 2006 6:32 pm (#78 of 84)

Stone Soup???

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TheSaint - Jul 26, 2006 9:12 pm (#79 of 84)

Here is how Flamel did it:

Then wilt thou see in thy vessel a great blackness like that of melted pitch, which is the sign of the death and putrefaction of the gold, and the key of the whole magistery. Cause it therefore to resuscitate by concocting it, and be not weary with concocting it: during this period divers changes will take place; that is to say, the matter will pass through all the colors, the black, the ash color, the blue, the green, the white, the orange, and finally the red as red as blood or the crimson poppy: aim only at this last color; for it is the true sulfur, and the alchymical powder. I say nothing precisely about the time; for that depends on the industry of the artist; but thou canst not fail, by working as I have shown.

25. If thou are disposed to multiply thy powder, take one part thereof, and water it with two parts of thy animated Mercury; make it into a soft and smooth paste; put it in a vessel as thou hast already done, in the same furnace and fire, and concoct it. This second turn of the philosophic wheel will be done in less time than the first, and thy powder will have ten times more strength. Let is wheel about again even a thousand times, and as much as thou wilt. Thou wilt then have a treasure without price, superior to all there is in the world, and thou canst desire nothing more here below, for thou hast both health and riches, if thou useth them properly.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Notice that death is the key, and resusitation requires another full turn of the alchemic wheel, but at a much faster pace. Health and Riches if you used them properly. (I just love these old texts)

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Steve Newton - Jul 27, 2006 4:46 am (#80 of 84)

Librarian
Except that JKR has taken many things and changed them to suit her story. She has given us no mention on how her Stone works.

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TheSaint - Jul 27, 2006 6:23 am (#81 of 84)

True.

Just showing one perspective.

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Thom Matheson - Jul 29, 2006 7:18 pm (#82 of 84)

At the end of the NIcholas Flamel chapter when Harry overhears Snape and Quirrell arguing in the forest. Harry is on his broom. Snape askes if Quirrell if he has found a weay past Fluffy. So here is Snape just inches away from Voldemort, and he didn't know that he was there? Doesn't it make you just a tintsy bit uneasy about who is loyal to whom? I cannot believe that there was some kind of something going on between the three of them. If not what kind of real reunion took place between Voldemort and Snape after the rebirth.

"So, Severeus, how've you been. By the way how come you didn't help me get the stone back when I was with Quirrell".

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TheSaint - Jul 29, 2006 8:27 pm (#83 of 84)

I thought that part was explained in "Spinners End?"

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Thom Matheson - Jul 29, 2006 8:59 pm (#84 of 84)

I agree with you. I was looking back at that chapter and, knowing what we now know, Did Snape know it was Voldemort? If so why the charade? If not, that is a big hole to fill, regarding the whole relationship as laid out by Rowling. I mean why wouldn't Voldemort have spoken out to Snape to say Hey I'm back help me out. It just seems that they, Snape and Voldemort, were playing away from each other rather then working together.
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