Voldemort's Army

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Post  Lady Arabella on Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:45 pm

The following is an archive of material originally posted on the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum, hosted by World Crossing, which ceased operations on April 15, 2011
Lady Arabella
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Post  Lady Arabella on Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:50 pm


Voldemort's Army



MoonRider - Jan 30, 2005 12:30 am Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 6:59 pm

Another theory of mine----hold on to your hats, this one could be pretty crazy!

At the graveyard, Voldemort says:

....I shall have all my devoted servants returned to me, and an army of creatures whom all fear...

My theory is that the "army of creatures" is the serpent statues in the CoS! I think that Trevor has hatched all those serpents (basilisks are hatched beneath a toad; Trevor was hangin'-out in Myrtle's bathroom.), then they were petrified in turn-----the last one not petrified was the basilisk Harry killed.

Trevor to me sounds like a boy's name-----but suppose it isn't....

they destroyed the SS but not the CoS.

Also, it says that the statues only had sockets where the eyes should be. "Trevor" (the name) might be a jumble of the french word "trover" (to find). All Trevor would have to do is find the gemstones needed for the eye sockets (the serpent on the door to the CoS had emeralds as eyes), and the serpents would spring to life! It wouldn't be hard for Trevor to find the gemstones-----first of all, if the eye sockets are to be filled, likewise, with emeralds, the Slytherin's hourglass (house points) is full of 'em! Second-of-all, I'm thinkin' he could easily travel underground to Gringotts. If the serpents should have yellow eyes (which is my theory concerning half-bloods), then I'm guessin' Trevor could use whatever Hufflepuff's gemstone is (Topaz, maybe?). BTW, if my half-blood/yellow eye theory is even close to being correct, then why wouldn't the snake on the door have yellow eyes? Well, if my theory as to why beings have green eyes is plausible, then it's because the CoS has "seen" death, so-to-speak-----I don't think Moaning Myrtle was actually found in the chamber.

Anyway-----that's, maybe, something for us to toss around??

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septentrion - Jan 30, 2005 4:14 am (#1 of 133) Reply

Just my know-it-all moment : it is "trouver" and not "trover", and is pronounced "trooVAY".

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Solitaire - Jan 30, 2005 11:07 am (#2 of 133) Reply

If the serpents should have yellow eyes (which is my theory concerning half-bloods)

Hmmm ... Harry is a half-blood, and his eyes are not yellow. They are green. Or does the "having seen death" factor override natural eye color? And if it does, do the eyes suddenly change color? Dean Thomas and Hagrid are also half-bloods, and they apparently do not have yellow eyes. Hagrid's eyes are also not green, and he has apparently seen death, since he can see thestrals. Just a few thoughts ...

Solitaire

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vball man - Jan 31, 2005 9:04 am (#3 of 133) Reply

I have always supposed that Voldemort's eye color was different than Tom. That is, they changed color.

Two reasons - First - red eyes are weird, and Tom would have been noted for it.
Second - Many things about Tom's appearance were different than Voldemort, so why not eye color?

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Choices - Jan 31, 2005 11:54 am (#4 of 133) Reply

I think Voldemort's endeavors to become immortal - drinking snake venom primarily - caused him to take on the snake-like appearance with the red, slit eyes. Tom we were told, looks a lot like Harry - or vice-versa. His eyes were normal looking back then.

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Mrs Brisbee - Jan 31, 2005 12:07 pm (#5 of 133) Reply

Weird, but if you reread the part of CoS when Harry is talking to Tom Riddle, Tom's eyes start to gleam red. I've been wondering what he was up to back then to cause his eyes to already start changing color. Or maybe redeye is just the side effect of stealing the life out of someone.

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Veritaserum - Jan 31, 2005 2:25 pm (#6 of 133) Reply

Ooh, like the belief that photos suck out your soul...you get red eye in photos...hmm

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zelmia - Jan 31, 2005 8:37 pm (#7 of 133) Reply

When was Trevor "hangin'-out in Myrtle's bathroom"?

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Solitaire - Jan 31, 2005 11:39 pm (#8 of 133) Reply

Interesting that Harry's eyes are green (Slytherin color) and Voldemort's eyes are red (Gryffindor color). Any significance there?

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Bathilda - Feb 1, 2005 8:08 am (#9 of 133) Reply

I think that the army of creatures referred to in the first post is a reference to Giants and Dementors, and perhaps some creatures that we have not yet met. It seemed obvious to me in the surrounding text. As for Trevor, maybe.... I think that Trevor may unwittingly do something good, but it will be small, and mostly for the comic relief. Interesting theory, though. The Chamber of Secrets will come again...don't know where, don't know when...

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MoonRider - Feb 1, 2005 11:04 am (#10 of 133) Reply

Hi All!!

Thanks for responding!

Solitaire - Yes! I think the different things happening in people's lives does override natural eye color.

vballman - You're right! Tom's eyes were dark----Voldy's red.

Choices - I think you're also right, in that Voldy's drinkin' snake milk was what made him more snake-like-----i.e., the slits for eyes, etc.

Mrs Brisbee - I know what you mean----I'm thinkin' it was a kind of foreshadowing, maybe? Meaning that the next time we saw Voldy that his eyes would be red?

Zelmia - Page 307/SS (American paperback). Actually, it doesn't say Moanin' Myrtles bathroom----I thought it did----it says:

....Neville's toad was found lurking in a corner of the toilets....

Solitaire - Geez, I never even thought about that!

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wwtMask - Feb 1, 2005 1:26 pm (#11 of 133) Reply

I am honestly more interested in the as-yet-unnamed DEs that did not show up to the Graveyard. I get the feeling that these will be "foot soldiers", while the DEs we've seen so far are more like the officers in Voldemort's army.

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Archangel - Feb 1, 2005 5:46 pm (#12 of 133) Reply

Do you think all the DEs have the Dark Mark tattooed on their forearms? I think it was Snape who mentioned that whenever Voldemort touches one, all the DEs would instantly appear by his side. However, only a handful turned up at the graveyard...

I think the dementors are the ideal foot soldiers for this war. Wizards can't stun or hex them and it takes advanced magic, Patronus Charm, just to fend one off. Perhaps in Book 6, JKR will show us how to finish one.

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Solitaire - Feb 2, 2005 10:18 pm (#13 of 133) Reply

Is it even remotely possible that Voldemort may not have the level of support he had in the previous war? I think of the Durmstrang crowd ... but look at Viktor. Hermione's heritage did not seem to matter much to him. Could he be instrumental in turning the tide away from the prejudices of past generations?

Karkaroff may well be dead or headed to parts unknown. Is it possible that people may have come to realize that while they don't necessarily want to jump headlong into "mixed marriages," they don't really feel the need to have Voldemort at the helm of things? Just wondering if anyone else feels that Voldemort might have outlived the time when people would follow him blindly? Perhaps they got rather used to his absence ... and liked it. What are the odds? Hm ... come to think of it, if "odds" are in question, maybe I should post this on the Bagman thread! LOL

Solitaire

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Phelim Mcintyre - Feb 2, 2005 11:53 pm (#14 of 133) Reply

When I read GoF I got the idea that the three un-named Death Eaters who did not turn up were Snape, Karakoff and Crouch. We knew by then about Karakoff and Snape but to mention Crouch, except to say his character was undercover in Hogwarts, would have destroyed the suspense.

As to Voledmort's level second time around? My guess is that Krum is the exception that proves the rule. Many who have kept quiet will come out of the shadows and come to the Dark Lord's side.

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Solitaire - Feb 3, 2005 11:33 pm (#15 of 133) Reply

Do you think Krum would join forces with Voldemort? Would he kill Hermione on Voldemort's orders? Just wondering ...

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Archangel - Feb 4, 2005 12:20 am (#16 of 133) Reply

Nooooo Solitaire! I actually like Krum although he is prone to getting zapped with an Imperius Curse so...

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Weeny Owl - Feb 4, 2005 1:54 am (#17 of 133) Reply

I don't see Viktor becoming a Death Eater because of his attitude throughout GoF. He was obviously interested in Hermione or he wouldn't have asked Harry about their relationship, and if he is truly interested in her, he wouldn't have blood prejudices.

He admired Harry's abilities, and seemed rather bitter that Karkaroff let the students do all the work in getting the ship to Hogwarts.

I could see him becoming an Order member before I could see him becoming a Death Eater.

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GryffEndora - Feb 4, 2005 11:58 am (#18 of 133) Reply

I agree Weeny Owl. I think Krum is more likely an Order Member than a DE. The suggestion of him turning DE sounds too much like Rolph from the Sound of Music. At the beginning of the film, before he even meets Liesel to sing the silly 16 going on 17 song he makes comments that let you know he is sympathetic toward the Nazi party. Krum on the other hand knows exactly who and what Hermione supports and if he didn't agree with those feelings I don't think he would still be writing to her, nor her to him.

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vball man - Feb 4, 2005 3:19 pm (#19 of 133) Reply

I see Krum more for an order member than DE, as well. I think that Dumbledore's invitation for the visiting students to return to Hogwarts if they wished was for Krum.

Maybe we'll see it happen.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 5, 2005 2:12 pm (#20 of 133) Reply

Just had a thought. I don't know if this the right thread, but remember when there was that talk of who would switch houses? Maybe they would switch more than houses. Maybe they would switch schools. In GOF Krum kept saying he liked Hogwarts better, so what if he switched from Durmstrang to Hogwarts?............Or maybe not, that would cause to much tension between Ron and Hermione. Feel free to ignore this post.

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haymoni - Feb 5, 2005 7:36 pm (#21 of 133) Reply

Krum should have left Durmstrang after Book 4.

He could, however, come back and teach. Maybe he will be the next DADA teacher or possibly take Madame Hooch's place if necessary.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 8, 2005 11:42 am (#22 of 133) Reply

Right, I forgot he graduated. I can throw that idea out then.

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Joanne R. Reid - Feb 8, 2005 2:28 pm (#23 of 133) Reply

Hi,

Of course, Victor is also a professional Quidditch player. He's got quite enough to keep him busy for several years.

Thanks,

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Muggle Doctor - Feb 13, 2005 6:25 pm (#24 of 133) Reply

Getting back to the topic - I'm still waiting to see which side the heliopaths pick. :-p

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MoonRider - Feb 21, 2005 6:54 am (#25 of 133) Reply

LOL, Muggle Doctor!

I think the giants and Dementors will be a part of Voldemort's Army, also----but I still think we'll see basilisk(s) again....

like I've said before, the SS/PS was destroyed but not the CoS----why not? Also, Ron told Harry that a "Second" takes over when you die (Re: dueling), and Harry killed a basilisk----and there's all those other ones down in the CoS-----that are petrified, maybe?

Any thoughts?

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MoonRider - Mar 7, 2005 4:31 pm (#26 of 133) Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:40 pm

Does anybody think the goblins will be included in the war?

.....which side will they be on?

I just read somewhere in OotP that the goblins would have to be paid some serious gold to take a side.

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Phoenix song - Mar 7, 2005 7:55 pm (#27 of 133) Reply

I think that the goblins could be turned either way. It seems to me that they are perhaps creatures that are more concerned for themselves than for the WW as a whole. They're more likely to go to whichever side can convince them that they will receive the best deal.

I'd like, of course, to see the goblins on the side of the Order. It concerns me that there haven't been any goblin allies that I can think of, though. We've seen Harry meet and make alliances with different magical beings (house-elves, were wolves, centaurs, giants, bewitched cars ) but we haven't seen him become friendly, or even come to an understanding, with the goblins or the dementors (of course). I would think that this would be an indication that the goblins are going to be more inclined to become members of Voldemort's Army. Just my thoughts, of course.

Barbie

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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 7, 2005 8:48 pm (#28 of 133) Reply

The giants’ fate I think is open to question. I believe that if the right MoM is put in place the overtures made by Voldemort to the giants could be nullified if Dumbledore can successfully convince the new MoM that it is in the best insterests of the Ministry to convince the giants that is most prudent course of action to either remain neutral or enter the conflict on the side of the Ministry.

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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 4:45 am (#29 of 133) Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:38 pm

Phoenix song: "I would think that this would be an indication that the goblins are going to be more inclined to become members of Voldemort's Army."

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of-----especially since Bagman really ticked them off by cheating them out of their gold at the World Cup!

Nathan Zimmermann: I know what you're saying-----I'm just concerned about Hagrid's taking Grawp away from there----will that help or hinder the Order's "case"-----you know what I mean?

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Eric Bailey - Mar 8, 2005 3:32 pm (#30 of 133) Reply

Well, the goblins are major Capitalists, and have absolute control of the banking system, so I can't see them giving that up in favor of being Voldemort's slaves. They'd have everything to lose and nothing to gain if he takes over.

That said, they can make life VERY uncomfortable for the Malfoys.

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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 4:38 pm (#31 of 133) Reply

Eric Bailey - Well, the goblins are major Capitalists, and have absolute control of the banking system, so I can't see them giving that up in favor of being Voldemort's slaves. They'd have everything to lose and nothing to gain if he takes over.

Two things. First the Golden rule, "He who has the gold, makes the rules". Two, the Goblins can take care of themselves.

I doubt they care that much who is on top. They will still win, or so they think.

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Eric Bailey - Mar 8, 2005 10:45 pm (#32 of 133) Reply

I wrote my response in response to someone suggesting the goblins would join Voldemort, give up their very nice and lucrative position to put someone who'd remove them from said nice position into power. I was just explaining why I found that unlikely.

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Dumbledore - Mar 9, 2005 5:31 am (#33 of 133) Reply

I doubt that the goblins will physically give themselves up for the war..but I think we heard that Bill was trying to do negotiations with them so I think it possible that they will backhandedly help the Order with something they can do financially.

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Ms Hagrid - Mar 15, 2005 9:19 am (#34 of 133) Reply

In Chapter 5 of OotP, there's are conversation between Mr. Weasley, Bill, and Lupin about Goblins where they are talking about what side that Goblins might take. Lupin says: "I think it depends on what they're offered. And I'm not talking about gold: if they're offered freedoms we've been denying them for centuries they're going to be tempted."

It would be interesting to know what "freedoms" Goblins are being denied... Votes? Seats on the Wizengamot? Wand use? The right to employment outside the financial industry? Does anyone know if there is anything in canon that speaks to this?

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wwtMask - Mar 15, 2005 10:00 am (#35 of 133) Reply

Considering the tremendous racism that wizards exhibit towards other intelligent magical creatures and the little we keep hearing about Goblin rebellions in History of Magic, I can imagine that they're second class citizens at the best. After all, the wizards seem to have laws against wand usage by non-humans (the wand, of course, being the symbol of power). We also see only token nods to other races via the various Liaison offices; otherwise, the Ministry of Magic is all human. As we can see from these examples, the only real difference between Wizards and Muggles is magic. The same old prejudice and racism exists. The "good guys" in this case are really on no higher moral ground than Voldemort. His pureblood mania is no more offensive or wrong than the pro-human stance that the WW has had for centuries.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 15, 2005 10:50 am (#36 of 133) Reply

In the “Aninmagi and Metamorphagi,” Archangel presented an idea that I found most interesting. He asserted that any metamorphagi serving Voldemort could be highly useful to Voldemort. I think that both animagi and metamorphagi could be used by voldemort as part of an espionage network.

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Dumbledore - Mar 15, 2005 2:56 pm (#37 of 133) Reply

LOL, I just had a vision of Voldemort in a James Bond movie.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 16, 2005 1:09 am (#38 of 133) Reply

What - Dumbledore, with a white cat sat on his lap "Ah Mr. Potter, we meet again". Or would that be an albino python? Wink

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Eric Bailey - Mar 16, 2005 2:19 am (#39 of 133) Reply

Given that Harry wears glasses and Voldie's bald, I'm thinking more something else...

Bella: But... Why don't I just Avada Kadava them?!!!

Voldie: Bella... You just... don't... get it, do you? Place them in the easily escapable cage! Activate the slowly moving device!


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Dumbledore - Mar 16, 2005 6:55 am (#40 of 133) Reply

It's actually “activate the unnecessarily slow moving dipping device.” Yes, I am an Austin Powers freak as well. :-D

But now back on topic to Voldemort's army...

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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 17, 2005 1:22 am (#41 of 133) Reply

I see some more fan fiction coming. I must get round to posting one of these days.

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Leia Tyndall - Mar 23, 2005 12:03 am (#42 of 133) Reply

Most vampires will probably support Voldemort. However JKR does it, I'm sure vampires will play a role with Voldemort. Weren't goblins also said to have supported Voldy? If that is so, the wizarding world will be quite disrupted when they can't use Gringotts (assuming goblins support Voldemort and refuse to open the bank for wizards).

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Dumbledore - Mar 23, 2005 12:58 pm (#43 of 133) Reply

In Order of the Phoenix we are told that the goblins haven't really taken sides yet, but Bill is negotiating with one of the wizards, Ragnok. Lupin then says that the goblins will support us if we give them freedoms they don't already have.

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Lav - Apr 2, 2005 12:13 am (#44 of 133) Reply

I think we've all gone slightly off track here.

Moon Rider, interesting theory, about the statues and Trevor, but like you pointed out earlier, it wasn't necessarily Moaning Myrtle's bathroom. I think the statues are rather insignificant. More of a clue about the Chamber than anything else...

I think we already know at least something about Voldie's army. The dementors are definitely there! We can't rule out the giants. I think Hagrid getting grawp to Hogwarts, might have a good impression on the giants... More death-eaters to come. Definitely.

Vampires should be on Voldemort's side, but...

Well, the resistance to Voldemorts army will be quite strong, because the OotP won't be required to hide from the Ministry of Magic. Plus the ministry itself will be training, and warning people about Voldemort... Anyhow, think I've deviated from the topic...

Voldie's army... hm...

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MoonRider - Apr 2, 2005 4:37 am (#45 of 133) Reply

Lav: "Moon Rider, interesting theory, about the statues and Trevor, but like you pointed out earlier, it wasn't necessarily Moaning Myrtle's bathroom."

Thanks!

What would it matter, though, that it wasn't Moaning Myrtle's bathroom/loo? The Basilisk travels through the pipes, so wouldn't that mean that all the bathrooms/loos lead to the CoS? Meaning, that whichever bathroom/loo that Trevor was in, he had access to the CoS.

Another thing that gave me "fuel" for this theory (I may have already posted this, I can't remember), was what Ron told Harry, in the first book, regarding a "second" in duels:

“Well, a second's there to take over if you die.....”

Those statue serpents could be the Basilisk's "seconds".

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Luanee - Apr 6, 2005 3:54 pm (#46 of 133) Reply

Moonrider, nice observations on the toads and snakes link... may prove the link between CoS and HBP.

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MoonRider - Apr 7, 2005 3:16 am (#47 of 133) Reply
Edited Apr 7, 2005 4:17 am

Luanee: "Moonrider, nice observations on the toads and snakes link... may prove the link between CoS and HBP."

Thanks-----I'm really thinking there's "something there", TOO!

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Aqualu Nifey - Apr 7, 2005 4:11 pm (#48 of 133) Reply

I think the statues are rather insignificant. – Lav

Sure, that's just what she wants us to think. ;-P

But since we were talking about goblins, do you think since we are now aware of Flitwick's heritage, that maybe he might be able to sway them a bit to side with the Order?

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Lav - Apr 11, 2005 7:38 am (#49 of 133) Reply

Moonrider, sorry for taking so long to reply (again!) No I don't think that all bathrooms/loos lead to the Chamber of Secrets. The book specifically states that the entrance to the chamber is in Moaning Myrtle's Bathroom. Besides, all those serpentine statues, I haven't heard mention of them anywhere except in Moaning Myrtle's Bathroom! And, um, a basilisk hatches from an egg, hatched under a toad, remember? And I don't think that it's, erm, suitable, that Hogwarts turns out to be a place for 'frozen' basilisks to 'unfreeze'. Get my point? There may be something there, but I'm not so sure about it... besides, the link between CoS and HBP could well be the sword, couldn't I? But I think the link would more likely be the sword, than all those statues. I mean, I just can't think of them statues coming to life, and destroying nearly everything within Hogwarts! Besides, who'd, erm, 'activate' them?

Aquala Nifey, yes I think he might play a role in convincing the goblins to join the resistance against Voldemort.

:-)

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frogface - Apr 11, 2005 8:31 am (#50 of 133) Reply

I don't think Flitwick will play a part in convincing the Goblins to join the resistance because JKR said that she's realised that his heritage is never going to make it into the books.

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Post  Lady Arabella on Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:54 pm


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Lav - Apr 11, 2005 9:50 pm (#51 of 133) Reply

Well, She said his heritage won't make it into the books. That doesn't mean that Flitwick won't play a role in influencing the goblins. Probably his, er, 'back-story' won't make it into his books.

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frogface - Apr 18, 2005 2:00 pm (#52 of 133) Reply

But then it wouldn't make sense. Why choose Flitwick to liaise with Goblins and never explain why?

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Lav - Apr 18, 2005 9:37 pm (#53 of 133) Reply

We don't have to know why someone does something... I mean, we know that he has goblin blood in him... that's enough, I think, to satisfy us if he tries to liaise with the goblins!

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frogface - Apr 19, 2005 2:54 pm (#54 of 133) Reply

Well only the people who surf the websites have picked up the knowledge. It’s an intriguing idea, I agree, but I don't see it happening - and her choosing to keep his blood lineage out of the story, it doesn't make sense to me. But there we are, you have your opinion and I have mine, I guess we'll have to leave it at that Smile

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hells456 - Apr 20, 2005 1:34 am (#55 of 133) Reply

JKR also said that his Goblin blood was only important because it gave him empathy with the other half breeds.

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Lav - Apr 21, 2005 11:10 pm (#56 of 133) Reply

Maybe it was just so then? She can change the story, can't she!?

And why would she mention that he has some Goblin in him, if he wasn't supposed to help in the Goblin-wizard liaison... hm...

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GryffEndora - Apr 23, 2005 12:52 pm (#57 of 133) Reply

I think she told us about his heritage because so many people wondered about it and because it is not going to be discussed in the books.

Now, something on topic . . . Lucius seemed to be the leader of the group involved on the raid in the DoM. Now that Lucius is in Azkaban who do you think will take his place? Is Bellatrix controllable or stable enough? And, how long do you think the DEs that were captured will be in Azkaban? Summer? 'Til Christmas? Whole book?

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frogface - Apr 23, 2005 2:44 pm (#58 of 133) Reply
Edited Apr 23, 2005 3:45 pm

Well from a literally point of view, I think at the end of book six would be a good point to have the Death Eaters escape. It would leave book six at quite a good cliff hanger.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Apr 23, 2005 2:52 pm (#59 of 133) Reply

Now that Lucius is in Azkaban who do you think will take his place?

Quite frankly I don't see any need for anyone to take his place. Now that the wizarding world "officially" knows Voldemort is back I see no reason for anyone to take Malfoy's place. I see Voldy himself leading his minions from now on. He will feel he can't trust his DE's to even accomplish the simplest of tasks after they played ring around the MOM with school kids, thus buying time for Dumbledore and the Order members to show up.

As for Bella, I don't think Voldemort will trust her any further than he can see her. I think he realizes that she can't be trusted to act rationally even under his threats.

How long do you think the DEs that were captured will be in Azkaban? Since Harry seems to be leaving #4 for more pleasant reasons than a trial, my guess would be around or on Oct. 31st.

Now, off of predictions and back on topic. Chapter 5, OoP "Well, firstly, he wants to build up his army again," said Sirius. "In the old days he had huge numbers at his command: witches and wizards he'd bullied or bewitched into following him, his faithful Death Eaters, a great variety of Dark creatures. You heard him planning to recruit the giants; well, they'll be just one of the groups he's after. He's certainly not going to try and take on the Ministry of Magic with only a dozen Death Eaters."

Makes me wonder what species Sirius considered "Dark creatures"? Dementors are just about a given and probably the Giants. I'm not so sure the good side can count on the spiders, "My sons and daughters do not harm Hagrid, on my command. But I cannot deny them fresh meat, when it wanders so willingly into our midst. Good-bye, friend of Hagrid."

Any ideas on others? I know heliopaths have been brought up and I need to find my copy of FB and reread.

...toddles off to find FB and a butterbeer...

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Paulus Maximus - Apr 23, 2005 3:21 pm (#60 of 133) Reply

He's certainly not going to try and take on the Ministry of Magic with only a dozen Death Eaters.

Well, he most certainly did attempt just that, so Sirius might have been wrong about the rest...

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Apr 23, 2005 6:10 pm (#61 of 133) Reply

Well, he most certainly did attempt just that, so Sirius might have been wrong about the rest...

Well, not quite, IMHO. First off Voldy was trying to keep his return quiet, as Sirius said, to regroup.

Second, he did not lead his DE's against the MOM. They snuck in and he didn't appear until his DE's had turned it into a fiasco. And there was no "MOM" there until after the fact. Not quite the same thing.

Actually, what Sirius says in chap 5 as far as explaining to Harry what the Order is and what Voldemort has been up to all summer may be spot on. Of course he's stating what he believes Dumbledore thinks.

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Ruthie - Apr 24, 2005 2:19 am (#62 of 133) Reply
Edited Apr 24, 2005 3:20 am

Gryffendora - the captured death eaters would surely be able to escape right away now that the dementors have abandoned Askaban and since there are so many of Voldemorts supporters in there, but perhaps as Frogface says JKR will wait til the end of HBP as a cliffhanger....

Also I agree with TwinklingBlueEyes that Voldemort won't be terribly pleased with his fellow death eaters and rely more on creatures like dementors who live only for what Voldemort especially can offer - fear, leading them himself.

I think what Hagrid did with the giants and taking Grawp may have upset them enough to nudge them towards Voldemorts side.

And as for creatures who want to side with Voldemort because wizards have mistreated them - Voldemort is a wizard himself. And he wants a world of pure-bloods, i thought pure-blood wizards were known for mistreating non-human magical creatures like house elves or is that just the Malfoys with Dobby? Sorry about the length of this post and feel free to ignore any useless info Smile

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Lav - Apr 24, 2005 5:26 am (#63 of 133) Reply

I doubt that the Death-Eaters will remain in Azkaban till much later... yes, Voldie would want the DE's to suffer, but , he still needs them!

Besides, why would they have to wait till the end of HBP, for a whole year? I reckon it'd be loads easier to escape from Azkaban now... I think they'll break out soon enough...

Voldie will definitely rely on the 'dark creatures' but, he can't do without the DE's, simply because, they can use spells etc., the dark creatures can't use spells and stuff...

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frogface - Apr 25, 2005 2:24 am (#64 of 133) Reply
Edited Apr 25, 2005 3:27 am

This is all true, but it all depends on a number of things:

1) The replacement guards for Azkaban: If the new MoM (depending on how quickly Fudge is replaced) is resourcefal then they might find guards who maybe aren't as effective as Dementors would be, but competent all the same. Alot of people are relying on what Malfoy says near the end of OotP "Dad and the others will be out in no time" (something like that, that isn't a direct quote). But we can't know this is true until we see book six.

2) What Voldemort's next step will be: From the information that’s avaliable we can probably say that that he will mostly be concentrating on building up his army and starting the war, and seeing as JKR has said that Muggles will start to notice things now the war has really started, we can say that it is likely that he will be taking these steps. However he might have other schemes (I still think he'll be thinking of ways he can hear the prophecy in its entirety, even though the recording the MoM have has been destroyed) and that might mean that he has something he wants to do before he concentrates of freeing the Death Eaters that were rounded up.

3) How it will affect the story: My personal opinion on this is that if a breakout does happen, it will have a huge impact in book six. Bigger than the breakout in book five, because even though we saw everyone looking scared that part of the story was mostly just covered using daily prophet articles, and we didn't meet the escapee's properly until the MoM battle. So I think that the breakout will be part of the 'climax battle' in book six. I sort of hope it is and that Harry is present because it would be really fascinating (and scary too!) to see Azkaban after hearing so much about it since book 2!

But we must also remember that we are all under the assumption that another breakout will happen. I agree that it probably will but i wanted to draw attention to the fact that we don't know for certain it will happen, or that if it does it will happen in HBP So....any thoughts on any of this?

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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 29, 2005 9:06 am (#65 of 133) Reply

Hi,

Here's an interesting thought: What if there is no break out? What if the island of Azkaban becomes Voldemort's fortress and headquarters? After all, he's got everything he needs right there. It's well defended. It's isolated. He and his Death Eaters can Apparate anywhere they wish. And, who could Apparate to Azkaban with all those Dementors lurking about awaiting a fresh meal?

Thanks,

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frogface - Apr 29, 2005 12:01 pm (#66 of 133) Reply

I like that idea alot! I've said once or twice before that I think Azkaban would make a really cool place for the final battle between Harry and Voldy, it was be so atmospheric and dark.

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Choices - Apr 29, 2005 6:01 pm (#67 of 133) Reply

I can't see Harry going to seek out Voldemort at Azkaban. I think it will be Voldemort that seeks out Harry and I think the big battle will be at Hogwarts.

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 29, 2005 7:42 pm (#68 of 133) Reply

Again I agree with you Choices. Hogwarts is now Harry's home and he will defend it exactly like Dumbledore.

Mikie

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frogface - Apr 30, 2005 2:13 am (#69 of 133) Reply

Who says Harry has to pursue Voldemort though? He could be lured there like in OotP, or transported there like in GoF. Anything is possible really, it would be cool to have a battle at Hogwarts too, but I think Azkaban would be scarier because it is a less familiar place, and one that is reguarly associated with horror and the consequence of WWI.

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Lav - Apr 30, 2005 9:46 am (#70 of 133) Reply

I think it's more plausible that the last battle is fought at Hogwarts... I think Harry might visit Azkaban, and when he does visit that place, the Death-Eaters break out... But the final battle is more likely to happen at Hogwarts...

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HungarianHorntail11 - May 25, 2005 6:04 pm (#71 of 133) Reply

I don't think you can apparate from Azkaban. It wouldn't be a very effective prison if you could.

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applepie - May 25, 2005 7:11 pm (#72 of 133) Reply

I can't see Harry surviving a visit to Azkaban. The dementors are so fond of him, and he seems to be curious to piece the events of the day his parents die, enough to keep himself from fighting off their effects. I think it is very possible the final battle will be at Hogwarts. What other wizarding place of significance is there besides Hogsmeade (which is unlikely) and the Ministry of Magic, where battle has already been done.

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frogface - May 26, 2005 12:45 am (#73 of 133) Reply

But isn't the fact that he would be unlikely to survive an encounter there the point? It would be all the more a scary scene if the odds are shortened on him. I wouldn't have said Harry could have possibly survived the graveyard incident in GoF, which is a very scary scene the first time you read it, but he did. I just think it would be really interesting for Harry to actually go to a place we've heard alot about but never seen. Just like the MoM and St Mungo's in book five. I'm not saying I think its likely that any kind of final battle will take place there, I'm just saying that I haven't ruled it out as a possibility, and that I would be far from disappointed if such a scene happened to take place.

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applepie - May 26, 2005 5:44 am (#74 of 133) Reply

Well, we have two books to go, maybe one of the battles will be at Hogwarts and one at Azkaban. Then she'll have covered most of the "turf"

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frogface - May 26, 2005 11:09 am (#75 of 133) Reply

I'd like to add that if my last post sounded a bit...how shall I put this? Um...Snapeish, then I didn't mean it. I posted it early just morning, I had just woken up and was not in the best of moods :p. I still stick by my idea but I just wanted to clarify that most of the time I won't bite off your head for disagreeing with me (unless its before I've had my morning coffee!)

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applepie - May 26, 2005 11:14 am (#76 of 133) Reply

No need to apologize. I am quite the same in the morning.

I have to admit that I wondered how Harry was going to escape the graveyard scene, myself...but, knowing that there were other books to write, I knew he would, somehow, escape. I think Azkaban would be a wonderful place to stage a dual, and I agree that to take Harry "to the next level" he probably will visit there so she can bring all her literary "sets" into the story a little more. We've had the opportunity to visit most of her literary "sets" through the course of the books and Azkaban is just another one to add to the list.



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Aqualu Nifey - Jun 21, 2005 6:11 pm (#77 of 133) Reply

I don't think that the battle will take place at either Hogwarts or Azkaban, but at more of a middle ground. Hogwarts being Harry's base and Azkaban being Voldemort's base, maybe there would be some sort of middle ground that would be neutral or undecided or something. ...Unless JKR wanted to make it really dark. I could see it happening at Azkaban if Voldemort had tricked Harry there. It would really add to the tone if the Final Battle took place at Azkaban.

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frogface - Jun 22, 2005 12:33 am (#78 of 133) Reply

Azkaban isn't Voldemort's base. We are never told where Voldemort’s headquarters are in OotP but we know its not Azkaban because its still being used by the MoM as a prison.

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Paulus Maximus - Jun 22, 2005 1:26 pm (#79 of 133) Reply

he seems to be curious to piece the events of the day his parents die, enough to keep himself from fighting off their effects.

The Dementors no longer reveal anything about the day his parents died. Harry's worst memory as of the beginning of OP was when he dueled Voldemort, and as of the end of OP, it was probably Sirius' death.

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Aqualu Nifey - Jun 22, 2005 4:46 pm (#80 of 133) Reply

Well, a couple posts back, it was being discussed that Voldemort could come over to Azkaban and use it as his base instead of releasing all the DEs. But if not at Azkaban, than at wherever Voldemort's base IS.

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Astragynia Winifred Posy Miranda Yseult Cawdor - Jun 22, 2005 6:00 pm (#81 of 133) Reply
Edited Jun 22, 2005 7:02 pm

It seems very unlikely that Voldemort would choose Azkaban as his main base. After all, the Death Eaters are all humans, however evil, and being around dementors is torture for them. (We already know that the dementors have the same effect on DEs in Azkaban as on ordinary criminals, from what Sirius has said about them). Keeping dementors around the rest of your army is no way to win a war - it would be absolutely disastrous for morale! I suppose it's possible that dementors can somehow 'turn off' their sucking-away-all-your-happy-thoughts effect, but I don't think so - it seems to be a part of their very nature, rather than a weapon they can deliberately use (that would be the Kiss). So though I can definitely see Voldemort taking over Azkaban, and it being very useful to him, I don't think it will become the Death Eaters' equivalent to the Black House. A fortress and hang-out for the dementors, yes - a base, no.

Edit: though I suppose he could always move the dementors. But then Azkaban ceases to be so creepy, so it defeats the purpose.

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pottermom34 - Jun 22, 2005 6:06 pm (#82 of 133) Reply

I thought that now that Voldy has returned the dementors were his allies too, so they probably wouldn't do anything to the DEs.

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Ruthie - Jun 22, 2005 10:39 pm (#83 of 133) Reply

I agree pottermom, that LV has lured the dementors over, but Azkaban seems an odd HQ to me. It's an island. If LV wanted to 'mass his forces' half of them (creatures, giants etc.) would surely have a hard time getting there and I would think he would choose a place less well known to the wizarding world than a (previously) high-security prison, if he was to take over Askaban wouln't it would be all over the Daily Prophet?

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frogface - Jun 23, 2005 1:36 am (#84 of 133) Reply

Well the Dementors have actually left Azkaban haven't they, so wherever Voldemort's base is, the Dementor's are probably there. I think Azkaban's dark atmosphere would suit Voldemort, but I agree that it wouldn't be very pratical. As Ruthie says its a small island so not much room for the Giants to stretch their legs! Plus the MoM and probably DD know where Azkaban is, so it wouldn't be well hidden either. I hope that we'll get to see Azkaban in the future, but I have no idea what part it will play in the events to come.

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Choices - Jun 23, 2005 8:07 am (#85 of 133) Reply

Ah, but there are spells to make small things larger. Voldemort could simply put an engorgement charm on Azkaban and it would be big enough for all.

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Tomoé - Jun 23, 2005 10:44 am (#86 of 133) Reply
Edited Jun 23, 2005 11:44 am

LOL! I imagine how high the steps of the stairs will become. ^_^

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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 23, 2005 1:54 pm (#87 of 133) Reply
Edited Jun 23, 2005 2:56 pm

Is it possible that Voldemort could use Durmstrang as his headquarters? I keep wondering why Karakoff was so worried about Victor Krum giving away too much info on its location. We do know that it’s close to mountains somewhere which would surely house the giants. When Salazar Slytherin left hogwarts, Could he have possibly taught at Durmstrang which is a school noted to be a pureblood school that teaches the dark arts? Just a thought.

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Aqualu Nifey - Jun 23, 2005 4:03 pm (#88 of 133) Reply

But then he'd have to take over the school. I know it's famous for teaching the Dark Arts, but that doesn't mean that everyone would be OK with an evil Dark Lord coming with all his DEs and creatures and whatnot to come to reside there. Karkaroff didn't seem so fond of Voldy anymore and Viktor Krum didn't seem overly pleased with the Dark Side, either. Then there's the question as to where the students would go. I don't think it would make for a very good learning environment with Dementors and giants and felons running about while 11 - year - olds are trying to learn.

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HungarianHorntail11 - Jun 24, 2005 5:12 am (#89 of 133) Reply

I likened Azkaban to Alcatraz. It's an island with concrete and iron bars. It doesn't seem all that interesting.

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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 26, 2005 6:10 pm (#90 of 133) Reply

Dumbledore had said that any student from the other schools would be welcome at Hogwarts, so if there was a takeover, I would think some of the students might make it to Hogwarts if they could get past Voldemort which I think would be highly unlikely. I wonder if the students could find Hogwarts again? I mean they have been there but I wonder if the school is under some kind of magic that prevents them from finding it again unless they are invited. Then again, maybe Dumbledore's verbal invitation at the end of the school year permits them to find Hogwarts again-kind of like secret keeper.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 27, 2005 12:44 am (#91 of 133) Reply

After chiding Karloff about hiding the whereabouts of Durmstrang, and it does make you wonder. I think any wizard or witch in the world could find Hogwarts. Maybe the paranoia has to do with the DL finding Karloff.

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GryffEndora - Jun 27, 2005 9:21 am (#92 of 133) Reply
Edited Jun 27, 2005 10:21 am

TBE, I didn't know Boris Karloff went to Durmstrang!!! Just kidding. Are you talking about Viktor Krum or Igor Karkaroff in your last post?

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 30, 2005 3:35 am (#93 of 133) Reply

[GryffEndora - I didn't know that Boris Karloff went to Durmstrang either. But he did live in the same village as me and the bells in the parish church were rehung with money from his will. I think Twinkling Blue Eyes was talking about Karkaroff.

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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 1, 2005 9:57 am (#94 of 133) Reply

If Voldemort was to take over Durmstrang maybe the birds produced from Victor Krum's wand is foreshadowing that he will get away{flew the coop}and join Hogwarts.

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Ruthie - Jul 2, 2005 2:07 am (#95 of 133) Reply

I think it's quite possible Durmstrang could be overrun - DD seemed to think so when he spoke to them all at the end of GoF. He looked specifically at the Durmstrang students and said they were welcome back anytime (not an exact quote at all sorry don't have my book on me). When I read it the other day it seemed like strong foreshadowing to me.... Or maybe Karkaroff will return to LV and then try to turn his students towards the dark arts rather than LV "taking over" the school.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jul 3, 2005 7:13 am (#96 of 133) Reply

If Karkaroff had the nerve to return to Durmstrang I doubt if the Dark Lord is going to be very supportive. More or less just AK him and so be it. Since we have heard that Durmstrang is inclined towards the dark arts already I doubt if Voldemort would have to "take over" the school.

Mickey

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Paulus Maximus - Jul 3, 2005 11:15 am (#97 of 133) Reply
Edited Jul 3, 2005 12:15 pm

I'm sure that Voldemort has a more... appropriate... punishment for a coward than AK... He said he would kill the deserter...

Unless, of course, Karkaroff is the deserter rather than the coward, but his conversations with Snape suggest otherwise...

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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 3, 2005 11:29 am (#98 of 133) Reply

Durmstrang is inclined towards the dark arts but I don’t see all the students as "dark". Some may simply go there as it may be closer to their homes such as the reason Malfoy attends Hogwarts. As for Karkaroff, I think he is a coward and would go back to being a DE if faced with Voldemort. I don’t see Voldemort killing off any DE or recruit until after the war.

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HungarianHorntail11 - Jul 4, 2005 1:37 pm (#99 of 133) Reply

Didn't Lucius want to send Draco to Durmstrang?

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Aqualu Nifey - Jul 4, 2005 4:20 pm (#100 of 133) Reply

Yeah, he did, HH.

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Denise P. - Jul 4, 2005 4:31 pm (#101 of 133) Reply

Well, we don't know it for a fact. Draco said his father wanted to send him there but that his mother didn't want him that far from home. Sounds like big talk from Draco more than anything since I think Lucius gets what Lucius wants, no matter what others in his family may think.

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Astragynia Winifred Posy Miranda Yseult Cawdor - Jul 9, 2005 9:19 pm (#102 of 133) Reply

We haven't really met Narcissa yet. For all we know, she's had Lucius under an Imperius curse for years now (unlikely, but still). Based on what we've seen of Bellatrix's power and Andromeda's determination (marrying a muggle despite being kicked out of the family for it), if she's anything like her sisters, she may be a force to be reckoned with, even against Lucius. Or not. We just don't know.

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Aqualu Nifey - Jul 12, 2005 5:20 pm (#103 of 133) Reply

Which makes me wonder why SHE's not such a prominent (or even one at all) DE. For some reason, though, I've always sort of thought of her as the Wizarding equivalent to Petunia Dursley. Sort of a 'Yes, yes, whatever you think is best, Lucius.'

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Astragynia Winifred Posy Miranda Yseult Cawdor - Jul 12, 2005 5:49 pm (#104 of 133) Reply

The whole blindly-doting-on-an-idiotic/bullying-son thing does certainly invite parallels. Narcissa's spying on the neighbours might be for somewhat more sinister purposes than Petunia's, though...

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Saralinda Again - Jul 12, 2005 6:04 pm (#105 of 133) Reply

Aqualu Nifey: For some reason, though, I've always sort of thought of her as the Wizarding equivalent to Petunia Dursley. Sort of a 'Yes, yes, whatever you think is best, Lucius.'

Let's peek in on Mr. and Mrs. Malfoy:

“Lucius, look! The Joneses have two new Firebolts, and one of them has that new whatchamacallit, the luxury package. Why don't we have two new Firebolts, Lucius? All we have are those-- Lucius? Lucius, are you listening to me? Pay attention to me when I'm talking to you ...”

Yeah, I think that could drive me to being a Death Eater Wink

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Astragynia Winifred Posy Miranda Yseult Cawdor - Jul 12, 2005 6:22 pm (#106 of 133) Reply
Edited Jul 12, 2005 7:26 pm

Saralinda: LOL! Only - in the Potter universe you have to keep up with the Boneses, not the Joneses.

Edit: Back on topic though, I really have a hard time imagining that she isn't doing SOMETHING for Voldemort's Army, whether her fore-arm shows it or not. She may or may not wear a mask in graveyards, but Lucius' brand of "How to win friends and influence people or Imperio them if that doesn't work" would certainly involve a wife, don't you think? Is there a Mrs. Fudge to invite to tea?

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Saralinda Again - Jul 12, 2005 8:17 pm (#107 of 133) Reply

in the Potter universe you have to keep up with the Boneses,

I stand corrected. Smile

Back on topic, though, and considering how strong-willed the Black women are, yeah, it's amazing that she seems so far to be the sweet little (<-- this is called irony) stay-at-home wifey. Maybe it's a huge undertaking to keep Malfoy Mansion spiffy since Dobby was set free. Let's hope we know more in three days ...

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 13, 2005 12:17 am (#108 of 133) Reply

Narcisaa brings a whole new edge to the concept of a "Stepford Wife".

'A little more veritaserum in your tea, Mrs. Fudge?'

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Weeny Owl - Jul 13, 2005 1:05 am (#109 of 133) Reply

I don't think Narcissa should be underestimated mainly because she was the one Kreacher went to, and she was the one Kreacher respected, and whether or not she is a Death Eater, she knew that whatever Kreacher told her would be used against Harry. If she isn't a full-fledged Death Eater, then it could be so she can work behind the scenes, and if something happened to Lucius, there would still be a Malfoy loyal to Voldemort who was also of age.

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Astragynia Winifred Posy Miranda Yseult Cawdor - Jul 13, 2005 2:44 pm (#110 of 133) Reply
Edited Jul 13, 2005 3:50 pm

...if something happened to Lucius... You mean like if he got caught by an anti-disapparition spell while on a mission for the Dark Lord in some DE-unfriendly territory, like, say, the Ministry of Magic, and ended up in Azkaban? Don't be ridikulus. Smile

Siriusly, I think we may learn quite a bit more about Madame Malfoy-nee-Black in just a couple of days. Smile

Edit: my best evidence for this, by the way, is how her name doesn't fit the rest of her family yet JKR didn't want to change it, meaning that (a)she came up with Narcissa's name quite early on, and (b)already had a strong sense of what the character was like (narcissistic) - strongly implying that Narcissa will have an important role to play in the overall plot of the series.

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Snuffles - Jul 14, 2005 5:10 am (#111 of 133) Reply

Well you know the saying....'Behind every successful man, there is a strong woman'. I have a feeling Narcissa maybe the brains behind everything and Lucius is the one that puts it all into action. I'm probably wrong, but hey ho, just my little opinion.

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Kip Carter - Aug 2, 2005 10:24 am (#112 of 133) Reply

This thread was closed down during the sixteen day period surrounding the release of Book Six. It is now opened for posts.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 6, 2005 7:13 am (#113 of 133) Reply

Giants, werewolves, dementors and death eaters. Any guesses who will have joined Voldemort in Book 7?

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Madam Pince - Aug 6, 2005 9:33 am (#114 of 133) Reply

If this was a "real war," I would be concerned about the Gringotts goblins financing the purchase of arms and materiel. However, JKR doesn't seem to delve into finances too much, so perhaps not. I'm just not real comfortable with those goblins, though.

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Marie E. - Aug 6, 2005 9:35 am (#115 of 133) Reply

Don't forget Inferi. We saw them in the cave, which means there are probably more out there.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 6, 2005 9:42 am (#116 of 133) Reply

Madam Pince, I imagine the goblins are playing both sides as it suits them while, officially maintaining neutrality

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Dame Peverell - Aug 12, 2005 12:15 pm (#117 of 133) Reply
Edited Aug 12, 2005 1:20 pm

- TERROR ALERT -
As I lay sleepless last night after re-reading GOF, Voldemort’s re-birthing party, it occurred to me that Aragog’s children (and their children) could well be his "army of creatures whom all fear"

They could even quickly invade the very heart of London via the Vanishing Cabinet portal, which no one ever bothered to destroy, at least in print.

Poor Ron. Poor everybody.

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Saralinda Again - Aug 12, 2005 1:57 pm (#118 of 133) Reply

Ewwwwww

:: shuddering::

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shepherdess - Aug 14, 2005 9:48 am (#119 of 133) Reply

Yeah, my first thought when I read that Aragog had died, was "Uh oh. He's the only one standing between the acromatula's and all the human food they want". That's a lot of very, very large, very hungry spiders. And they were having trouble finding enough food in the forest.

However, I must admit that I didn't think of them becoming Voldemort's army of creatures.

Yeah, eewwwwww, and shudder!

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Finn BV - Aug 29, 2005 2:18 pm (#120 of 133) Reply
Edited Aug 29, 2005 3:19 pm

Essidji, do you see the delete button (that looks like ) next to your posts? Go right ahead and click those and you can save the hosts the trouble!

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Essidji - Aug 30, 2005 3:01 am (#121 of 133) Reply

Thanks Finn, lol, I feel sooooooooo stupid!

Well at least damage is repaired...!

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Muggle Doctor - Oct 11, 2005 7:03 am (#122 of 133) Reply

He'd better start relying on his creatures, because the Death Eaters aren't much chop.

Fought to a standstill by school kids, two of whom haven't even taken their OWLS yet.

Captured in vast numbers.

The newest recruit fails the major part of his first mission.

One of them scores an "own goal", killing one of his own side with a poorly aimed AK.

How pathetic can you get?

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Madame Pomfrey - Oct 20, 2005 6:31 pm (#123 of 133) Reply

Muggle Docter, I'm thinking that particular DE that killed one of his own is a spy for Dumbledore. Wasn't most of his magic just bouncing off the walls?

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kingdolohov - Oct 20, 2005 7:06 pm (#124 of 133) Reply

Even if the huge blond worked for Dumbledore, it shows even more that Voldemort's crew isn't that good.

He gets to rely on these "second-stringers" with his top DEs in prison.

Even Greyback isn't all that reliable. He works for Voldemort so he can attack and kill people. He cares more about that than helping Voldemort, even though taking out Bill helped.

In response to the "fought to a standstill by school kids", they probably would have won had the Order not showed up. But I agree, it shouldn't have taken that long to get rid of a bunch of underage wizards.

All seems to be setting up a huge fall for Voldemort. In the final book, the Order will probably blow apart the DEs (those that don't betray Voldemort before)

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Muggle Doctor - Oct 23, 2005 11:02 pm (#125 of 133) Reply

I agree they would have won in the DoM battle, but as well as being adult wizards, they also outnumbered the DA kids by 2 to 1. Had the numbers been even, the outcome would have been different.

Interesting that the Order didn't do much better. Tonks went down wounded; so did Moody. Sirius was killed. Things were pretty desperate until Dumbledore turned up.

I admit the kids had one big advantage, when they were on their own; any adult could be stunned/hexed on sight, without having to worry about who they might be 'shooting at'.

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kingdolohov - Oct 24, 2005 12:00 pm (#126 of 133) Reply

Good point, Muggle Doctor.

The Order did struggle. It seems as though the best of the Death Eaters can handle the Order one on one. Bellatrix is one of these, and Dolohov might have defeated Sirius if Harry didn't help.

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[me and my shadow 813 - Oct 26, 2005 9:27 am (#127 of 133) Reply

I've been thinking the "army of creatures" will be werewolves. Fenrir's presence was made very plain in book 6, Vold's mission to have him bite children and remove them from WW, along with Lupin's life trying to persuade the werewolves not to follow him. I don't see everyone fearing spiders nor inferi as much as werewolves.

Only Aragog was enormous, the others were merely big and not beyond killing with a simple hex, as far as I recall. Although JKR did choose to have Moody use spiders for his class demonstration in unforgivables, so it may be connected.

Remember that in the cave Harry was able to hex several inferi at once, so certainly aurors and experienced wizards could broad-stroke their wand and wipe out several of an army at once, one could assume. But after werewolves, inferi would be my second choice.

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frogface - Oct 26, 2005 11:42 am (#128 of 133) Reply

I don't have my copy of chamber of secrets to hand but I'm sure I remember that the Acromantula that picked up Harry and Ron were described as being huge. Maybe you're thinking of the movie.

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me and my shadow 813 - Oct 26, 2005 1:06 pm (#129 of 133) Reply

Perhaps it was the film but I recall Aragog being a breed of spider not native to the area, so at best the spiders would be hybrids. Unless they breed solo?

In any event, a spider battle would be waaay too LOTR. I'd hope just as she's steering clear of Star Wars twists, JKR would also not want to copy the monster being venomous/web-weaving arachnid. Plus, we've got a major cliff hanger about werewolves from quite recently that needs to be tied in or tied up, as with Inferi. Could be "creatures" means more than one type of creature though, rather than simply plural of same creature...

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Liessie - Oct 26, 2005 2:29 pm (#130 of 133) Reply

I think Aragog tells Harry and Ron (in CoS) that Hagrid found him a partner to breed with....and hence their now vast family of acromantula.

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ex-FAHgeek - Oct 26, 2005 3:56 pm (#131 of 133) Reply

[quote]I think Aragog tells Harry and Ron (in CoS) that Hagrid found him a partner to breed with....and hence their now vast family of acromantula [/ quote]

Yes, her name was Morag (if I'm not mistaken.)

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Madam Pince - Nov 4, 2005 12:34 pm (#132 of 133) Reply

Close. It was Mosag.

According to Google: Less celebrated than her well-established rival in Loch Ness, Morag is the name now affectionately attributed to the Loch Morar Monster. Who'd of thunk it? I was thinking Morag was a character from Tolkien, but shows what I know....

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Finn BV - Nov 4, 2005 7:55 pm (#133 of 133) Reply

Morag is also the name of what once was Morag McDougal (from Harry Potter and Me). Not that this has to do with anything.

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