George and Fred - Not so identical (Condensed Thread)

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George and Fred - Not so identical (Condensed Thread)

Post  Elanor on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:35 am

George and Fred - Not so identical (Condensed Thread)

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. Elanor

Mare - Nov 16, 2004 4:15 am
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 12, 2006 11:49 pm
Discussion on the differences between Fred and George.

Started by Lenka - Mar 14, 2003
Well, I somehow have a feeling George is nicer than Fred (as if "friendlier" or "not so mean"). Fred seems more like the "leader" of their little group, while George is kind-of stick around. I think Fred is more ambicious, too. My proofs:

1. No-one (but me) ever says "George and Fred". Fred just always goes first.

2. Fred makes the "I'm George... just kidding, I'm Fred" joke, which is pretty mean, as he said "honestly, woman, you call yourself our mother" and Mrs. Weasley must still remember that around Christmas when she makes them the Weasley jumpers.

3. George is the one who tells Harry not to worry about fainting in the Train in PoA.

4. George is the one who tried to talk Fred into not blackmailing Bagman.

5. George doesn't seem to have a dance partner, and though this is just a guess, the "we need to borrow Pigwidgeon because George wants to ask him to the ball" thing was also Fred's sarcastic remark on the matter.

Yeah. Any more "proof" and "counter-proof"?

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George and Fred - Not so identical (Condensed Thread)

Post  Elanor on Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:36 am

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marè - Mar 14, 2003

There is an essay on george on the lexicon, you might find it interesting.
George Weasley at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 14, 2003

True. Thanks. Yeah, I like the essay. Though I was thinking about comparing George and Fred, as opposed to saying George was the best ever. They always go together - the two red-haired twins. I still think this thread could help us come up with with a more detailed description of both twins.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Asktqa - Mar 14, 2003

I can't think of any proof for it, but I always liked George better. Smile

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 14, 2003 11:43 am (#4 of 45)

Yeah, but so did I and the person who wrote that essay, which can't just all be coincidence...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nine - Mar 14, 2003

Fred and George are a team. I agree, Fred seems more of the ideas person and George more of the public relations (sort of) person. This just makes them a better team than if they were completely identical in personality as well as appearance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- milti girl - Mar 16, 2003

Well, I too wondered why Fred is being "favoured" more, if I may put it that way. Some more proof?

George says, "Don't cry, Ginny, we'll send you loads of owls." and Fred goes, "We'll send you a Hogwarts toilet seat." Then Mrs Weasly says, "That's not funny, Fred!" George genuinely tries cheering Ginny up and Fred just treats it like a big joke.

And how come it's never mentioned who George takes to the ball? Fred and Angelina are mentioned twice, and George, not even once.

I like Fred and George both, it's not like I totally hate Fred. But I do wish George was mentioned more often. He appears to just be Fred's little sidekick, which I don't think is very nice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- milti girl - Mar 16, 2003

Also, one more proof is: when Ron says Scabbers has been eaten up, Fred tells Ron to forget about it, and tells Ron he always complained about his rat.

And when Harry is discussing how the Dementors made him faint (at breakfast the next morning) and George tells Harry to forget it, Dad went to Azkaban once and hated it. A nice way of telling Harry he's not the only one.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 16, 2003

Milti girl, I had looked it up before, it's the other way around (which surprised me).

the exact quotation:
...and their younger sister began to cry.
"Don't, Ginny, we'll send you loads of owls.'
"We'll send you a Hogwarts toilet seat.'
"George!"

So there. Another mystery. Though before that, Fred was suggesting he could ask Harry what Voldy looked like. So again, we see Fred as the guy who's more interesting in fun than other people's feelings.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 16, 2003

Oh, yeah, the essay was right, it does indicate that it was George who said "Want a hand?" in that same chapter just a page before. Because then he yelled: "Oy, Fred, come here and help." (or something like that).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Asktqa - Mar 16, 2003

Fred seems more confident than George. ('Oy, Angelina!') As far as we know George didn't have a date for the ball at all.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 16, 2003

I think Fred's a bit too confident. Though he's funny, too. Smile

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nine - Mar 17, 2003

Fred thinking about asking Harry what Voldie looked like wasn't cruel or trying to be funny, just misplaced curiosity.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 18, 2003

Highly misplaced.
"What did the guy who killed your parents and tried to kill you look like?"

Smile

I wouldn't want to be asked that the first day of school.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wesley Montoya - Mar 18, 2003

I know this will sound off-the-wall, but that's what a long wait for book 5 does to your brain. Is it possible JKR is foreshadowing a split between the twins?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rosmerta - Mar 18, 2003

That idea isn't totally off the wall Wesley. I mean yes the twins are trying to start up Zonkos, but even if they go into business together they will lead very separate lives. They could get married and have families, or maybe even go find work in totally separate places.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- honey dutchess - Mar 18, 2003

Excuse me, but I don't think Fred is overly confident at all. Simply because one makes many jokes doesn't mean one is infused with confidence. On the contrary it is usually noted that jokesters (comedians) find their funny bone through an insecurity. Even bullies find their mean bone do to an insecurity.

Besides I should say Fred would be an arch nemisis only to a rival jokester or a rudy unconfident individual who wished for his comedic natre.

Another thing. Who is to say that George isn't oozing with a confidence of his own. A confidence that may not show itself through a Fred-like nauture but more covertly. Like a very good dose of self confidence.

After all this looking into we see that Fred and George are different. This should not be alarming. If one does die it is not to say that the better or worse half did it in. They are both the better half for each other and so far for the books. Smile

Twins should be apprecitated seperately and together. It does irk them to be labeled the good twin and the evil twin. It's unfair. Smile

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 19, 2003

"Besides I should say Fred would be an arch nemisis only to a rival jokester or a rudy unconfident individual who wished for his comedic natre."

And you call that fair? George is a rival joker, and how many unconfident individuals can you find in real life? A lot.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- honey dutchess - Mar 19, 2003

Firstly.
How is Fred's comedic ability unfair to a rival jokester? If Fred were to be another's rival this other person would at most see their competition as irratating but hardly unfair. To be rivals the opposing parties have to choose to compete against one another therefore being understood that in order to one up one's rival one must have a higher level of talent, ability, or the means to one up the competition. So if Fred has more comedic talent than George too bad.

(Though there have been cases where one person views another as one's rival but this other person is not conciously competing. This is to say the competing by his/her lonesome.)

Secondly.
Saying George is a rival jokester to the point he feels his brother to be his arch nemesis is an outright assumption. There is no evidence of such feeling or competition between Fred and George.

(This is to say there is no evidence that George or Fred have openly taken the stance of competition against one another.)

George may simply be a good natured lad who feels little to no need to compete with his brother in the category of the BMJC (Big Mac Jokester on Campus). George and Fred are a team and have been portrayed as such through out all four books. They are quite loyal to one another.

Thirdly. Concerning unconfident individuals.
Too bad so sad for the unconfident individuals. Everyone is a bit or has been a bit unconfident every now and then. This is not Fred's fault. There is no evidence of Fred making fun of an indiviual to the point of meanness or to the point of tearing down a person and their self-esteem. Such unconfident individuals should try not to project their self shame onto others making innocent people into their arch nemesis.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lenka - Mar 19, 2003

Yep. I agree with all above. Good points.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gabrielle D - Mar 20, 2003

George seems like he cares a bit more.

They do the combine jokes alot too. Like in HP SS they've the scene with Percy saying he’s a prefect and the 'once' 'or twice' 'a minute' 'all summer'. They have great delivery together.

I've always like George more, but probibly because he is the less 'used' of the two. Maybe JKR likes Fred more. You can’t change it though. One sibling will always be more outgoing than the other. My sister (who is not my twin, she's 3 years older) and I are almost like that. She is friendly and everyone loves her, but when people see me, they think I’m being rude because I’m not going to run up to them and give them a hug like she would. There are plenty of reasons why George might be in the backround a bit more then Fred. Maybe he even chooses to be there.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S.E. Jones - Mar 20, 2003

I've known many twins over the years and there are usually very subtle but evident differences between them. Fred is usually slightly more outgoing and the idea man while George is slightly more reserved and the details man. This can be seen, usually, in their dialogue; Fred tends to get the slightly more aggressive and dodgy lines.

Besides, you could see Lee Jordan as a rival jokester but instead of starting a real rivalry with him, he was incorporated into the group.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carina - Mar 20, 2003

I actually went to school with a boy named Fred who reminds me a lot of Fred W. Smile I was a bit quiet and nerdy while he was well liked and popular, but he always seemed to go out of his way to make me smile.

I think good natured jokester (as opposed to mean, teasing bullies) like F&G would talk to anyone who laughed at their jokes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eloise Midgen - Mar 22, 2003

I sort of agree that Fred and George are different, however I think this is taking it a bit far. JK may just see them as the same and happen to randomly pick Fred for some of the more sarcastic bits. I guess they could get into arguments, but I doubt that it's anything serious.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- honey dutchess - Mar 22, 2003

I think JKR has thought out each main character to the point little random selection of characters for lines and characteristic traits would happen.

Besides, speaking from a writer’s point of view, that simply doesn't happen. The Weasley twins are secondary main characters (if not considered main characters). They have to have a personality and individual personalities moreover because they are two people not one. I am assuming JKR plotted the characters personalities to a certain degree but for good reason. (It’s extremely difficult to write a good book otherwise.)

There are reasons writers choose a character to say or do a certain thing. Sometimes the daialogue or act is significant to the furthering of the story but, character is always conveyed. Writers know this because they write each line and description and so forth. I would say for a writer, the process of writing the lines, acts, and descriptions (writing, full stop) are an intimate thing. A (good) writer doesn't randomly select who will say or do what. There are reasons too.

If a writer were to randomly select a character to say something and not take into account why, how, and what this act or line conveys, then they could make for many *Hard and Fast Errors* (title of another thread on the Forum), if you know what I mean. Smile Especially when dealing with secondary main character.

What I mean is, lines and acts given at random to characters are very likely to backfire on the story and the writer. For example, JKR has built a very strong character of Snape the Potions Master. If Snape would have merrily agreed with Lockhart about letting students make love potions and the lot in Potions class on Valentines Day, that act would have totally contradicted Snape's character and played false with readers. (This is complicated.)

However, one more thing. If JKR had picked Fred randomly between the twins to say some of the jokes and lines, then wouldn't there be evidence of such random selection with other characters?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Asktqa - Mar 23, 2003

I understand what you mean about random selection though, of course authors have to make sure characters don't act out of character, but often Fred and George do seem to have only one character between them Smile

I would say that they will become more individual in the upcoming books, but that's only my opinion.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- azi - Mar 23, 2003

I think that Fred is the slightly more dominant twin than George. Fred is slightly more outgoing but that’s not to say George isn't - Fred just stands out more than George.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- milti girl - Mar 23, 2003

I guess if Fred and George were REALLY so different they would be in seperate houses like Parvati and Padma.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jimmy Bell - Mar 23, 2003

In the introductory scene we can tell they know what the other is going to say. They are as double comedians. Other than that it is Fred who pretends to be George. George asks Harry if he needs help and orders Fred to come help. Fred asks Molly if he should ask Harry about Voldemort and then tells her to keep her hair on. When the train is leaving Fred tries to comfort Ginny and say that they'll be in contact with her. George tries to make her laugh. George wants to go see Lee Jordan's tarantula. Fred introduces himself and George to Harry.

I don't think George is more reserved. He orders Fred over. And it's George who teases Mrs. Weasley about the toilet seat. I don't think Fred is more thoughtless either. While George is getting excited about Lee Jordan's tarantula it's Fred who introduces himself. As far as the introduction goes their personalities are about the same. As far as their everyday personalities go they seem to have the same personality.

But so did Sirius and James when they were at school together, according to Madame Rosmerta, "Quite the double act, Sirius Black and James Potter." It's in a moment of crisis that we find Sirius has a resentful and thoughtless streak, and James who risks his life to save Severus. As far as we know there have only three 'moments of crisis' (and comparatively minor ones compared to some of Harry's).

The first is when they bet all their money to Bagman. That is completely joint. At the same time as Fred tells Bagman they are ready to bet all their money, George is pooling it out.

The second is when Fred proposes to blackmail Bagman. He seems to think that the end justifies the means insofar as that if justice is achieved, it doesn't matter how they got it. (Sounds the slightest bit like Crouch). George is afraid of the consequences of breaking the law.

The third is when Fred and George are talking to Hermione, Harry, and Ron after dealing with Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle. Fred is the one who finally tells them who they were thinking of blackmailing. And it is Fred who seems to accept the Triwizard Winnings from Harry first although their reactions are almost identical.

Those are the only three instances in which we can tell the real difference in their personality. This is how we can separate mostly circumstance from revealing moments of character.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nine - Mar 23, 2003

More accurately, Sirius has a "resentful, thoughtless," and vengeful streak.

The best way to pressure out major differences in character would be to put them in a very stressful situation. I personally think that if one of the twins was very badly injured, that would show a lot about both of them in how they tried to cope. Something would have to separate them physically or mentally to show their differences and similarities, because they are a "double act", like Sirius and James were.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eloise Midgen - Mar 24, 2003

Yeah, I guess there are differences. I noticed that Fred was the one who turned Ron's teddy bear into a spider, and the one who used Ron's puffskien for bludger practice. The differences are still very subtle. I wonder if they have ever had big differences, like one is given something that the other isn't. I was thinking about who would be the next Quidditch captain, and if one of the twins got it, that would probably leave the other one feeling bad, or feeling separated. I still don't agree with the "George is nice and Fred isn't" idea.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gina R Snape - Mar 27, 2003

Did George take anyone to the Ball? When Fred "asked" Angelina, I got the distinct impression he didn't ask before because it was assumed. So, I'm guessing they are dating. That might be an upcoming subplot which could either show some more differences between the boys or at least separate them sometimes since they always seem to be together. Might be interesting if Fred and Angelina are dating, and she becomes the next Quidditch captain. Didn't someone say something about similar people acting differently under stress?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nine - Mar 28, 2003

I said that. And Jimmy Bell. And yes, that might end up being stressful, if Angelina could be accused of favoritism in some way towards Fred and/or George.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vicky Leery - Mar 31, 2003

A few months ago, when I was obsessed with Fred and George, I stayed up all one night and recorded all of their lines from the first and second books and who said each one. I was going to post them here, but thought it might imply I had no life outside of Harry Potter.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but in both books Fred had much fewer lines total- but most of them were jokes, and (in my opinion) his jokes were funnier. I got the impression that George's sense of humor is more visual, physical, such as sending their little sister a toilet seat.

I think that George wouldn't have become a joker if Fred hadn't, that maybe the differences were much more obvious when they were much younger. As they grew up, I suppose George might have tried to be more of a joker, almost to the point of being more clownish than Fred.

I wonder who was born first?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Meg L. - Mar 31, 2003

I have absolutely no evidence for this, but I always thought that George was born first.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carina - Mar 31, 2003

Hmmm... I always thought Fred was older, just because his name is usually first when I read it. Then again, my sisters are twins and we always say the younger of them first. There goes that theory...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jimmy Bell - Apr 6, 2003

Vicky, I seriously would like to see what you came up with. But for myself I have tried and couldn't come up with conclusive evidence of who said what in each scene. Although one may seem more likely.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- June - May 5, 2003

Just a sidenote... I've read an article before that wrote about twins, and it said that in twins, there's usually one more dominant than the other. The more submissive one would more likely than not, use "we" when speaking to others, since he/she thinks more of himself/ herself as part of a pair, while the more dominant one would use "I" more often.

Perhaps this applies to George as the more submissive twin?
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