Deathy Hallows Part II

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Empire Magazine's HP Ultimate Movie Celebration issue...

Post  Potteraholic on Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:33 pm

I posted this in the Chat thread the other day, but then thought this thread might be a good place for it, too.

I don't know if anyone saw Empire Magazine's HP Ultimate Movie Celebration issue. It was on sale in the UK on May 26th, but as I don't have a subscription to Empire magazine, and I didn't visit any magazine stands in May, I didn't know about this issue. My friend in Manchester was supposed to send it to me weeks ago, but forget, then went away... But I finally got it yesterday and, of course, read it cover to cover.

As its name suggests, it contains lots of great (all black and white) pictures of the cast, directors, and sets over the years, as well as thoughts about the movies from the actors. The order of appearance of the principal cast was interesting. (There were pages in between the bulleted items on the list below where the other actors/the directors/and the producers' comments appeared, 2 to 3 to a page along with various photographs.)

• Emma Watson - The Brains
• Tom Felton and Jason Isaacs - The Enemy
• Timothy Spall, David Thewlis, Gary Oldman - The Marauders
• Rupert Grint - The Rock
• Bonnie Wright, the Phelps twins, Matthew Lewis, Evanna Lynch - The Friends
• Michael Gambon and Robbie Coltrane - The Mentors
• Ralph Fiennes - The Nemesis
• Daniel Radcliffe - The One (on the inside back cover)

So... who's missing? That's right! I went through the whole issue, to see if I had skipped the page where Alan Rickman appeared. I hadn't. Then I looked at the back cover, which was all black, like the front cover (with just white and gold simple stark lettering). No picture of Alan. (DARN!) But... some text centered on the page in a subtle gold-colored and simple font. It was the following message from Alan Rickman:


April 26, 2011

I have just returned from the dubbing studio where I spoke into a microphone as Severus Snape for absolutely the last time. On the screen were some flashback shots of Daniel, Emma and Rupert from ten years ago. They were 12. I have also recently returned from New York and while I was there, I saw Daniel singing and dancing (brilliantly) on Broadway. A lifetime seems to have passed in minutes.

Three children have become adults since a phone call with Jo Rowling, containing one small clue, persuaded me that there was more to Snape than an unchanging costume, and that even though only three of the books were out at that time, she held the entire massive but delicate narrative in the surest of hands.

It is an ancient need to be told stories. But the story needs a great storyteller. Thanks for all of it, Jo.

Fitting to have Severus Snape on his own, in the back. (But it's a shame there was no Alan picture there.) Hmmm… "containing one small clue"… wonder what she said. Does anyone remember reading about this phone call anywhere before, where Alan said more about this clue Jo gave him?

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:37 pm

Julia H. wrote:
I would not have missed the snow in the village if it had not been there, but I've found an explanation that I can accept: It was because of the Dementors (remember the window of the train in PoA when the Dementor came?). There were Dementors stationed around the castle, and they kept the temperature below zero permanently. That there was no snow in Hogwarts means Snape kept the Dementors safely out of the school.

Excellent explanation, Julia! That works for me! See, if someone smart keeps plugging away at it, eventually the correct solution will be reached! (Of course, for the 90% of the audience who have no idea that Dementors chill the air... alas. LOL.)

Julia H. wrote:
I really liked Neville. But I did not quite understand why he seemed to be, for a while, facing an army of DE's apparently alone at the beginning of the battle.

I took it that people had been "stationed" at various entrances to Hogwarts, and Neville just happened to be the unlucky one that was stationed to watch the bridge... where unfortunately the main attack force was focused. But you're right, it wasn't explained very clearly (well, at all) in the movie.


Julia H. wrote:
Did I see it correctly that Harry actually touched Snape's wound as Snape lay dying?

That's how I saw it. I assumed he was trying to staunch the blood flow -- didn't his dialogue say something like "Help, get some bandages" or something like that? I remember thinking it was kind of odd that Harry was wanting to help Snape, because at that point he didn't know any of the memories and so Snape was still that person who killed Dumbledore...
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Julia H. on Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:36 am

Madam Pince wrote: I took it that people had been "stationed" at various entrances to Hogwarts, and Neville just happened to be the unlucky one that was stationed to watch the bridge.

Yes, that makes sense... it was probably what they meant. I know very little about warfare strategies. I guess in a Muggle battle, the watchmen would have been stationed high up in the towers; but when Voldemort is the attacker, perhaps that does not make a big difference. LOL.

Madam Pince wrote: I assumed he was trying to staunch the blood flow -- didn't his dialogue say something like "Help, get some bandages" or something like that? I remember thinking it was kind of odd that Harry was wanting to help Snape ...

In the book, there is a definite difference between Harry's treatment of Draco (who had not killed Dumbledore in the end) and of Snape (who had). In the movie, he just seems to try to save both. I really missed Snape's "Let me go to the boy" lines in the movie. In the book, it showed how Snape was thinking of his most important job even as he realized he was going to die. It also made Harry's gesture of going to him somewhat more personal perhaps. It was also like an answer to a request.

All in all, movie-Harry does not seem to be quite as hostile towards Snape as book-Harry. Just before Dumbledore's death, in the HBP-movie, Snape gestures to Harry to be quiet, and Harry obeys. At this point in the book, Harry already considers Snape a quasi-murderer because of the Prophecy and because he blames him for the death of Sirius. In the movies, prior to Dumbledore's death, Snape is hardly more to Harry than a particularly nasty teacher who sometimes tries to have him expelled and sometimes saves his life. But it does not really explain while Harry tries to staunch the blood flow. I guess that's just how movie-Harry is supposed to behave - he will instinctively want to save anyone (except Voldemort). Or maybe it's the tear ... or the fact that Snape talks to him. (In the book, Snape speaks only in the last moment.) And, of course, in the book, we can read about how Harry feels while he is silently bending over Snape, but in the movie, we can only see how he behaves.

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Mona on Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:43 am

Interesting observations, Julia and Madam Pince.

About Neville - Doesn't he go to McGonagal and request permission to blow up the bridge? And she says, "and take Seamus with you. He's got a flair for Pyrotechnics"? Or am I misremembering something? That's entirely possible.

I liked how movie Harry tries to stanch the blood flow with his hand. I feel it's in character, and wish it had been in the book. He wouldn't have done it for any arbitrary DE, but he's known Snape and been taught by him from the time he was eleven, and couldn't just leave him there to die alone. In the book he runs to the dying Snape even though he still hates him, but this action is naturally more moving.

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:00 pm

Hmmm… "containing one small clue"… wonder what she said. Does anyone remember reading about this phone call anywhere before, where Alan said more about this clue Jo gave him?

Yes, absolutely I remember Rickman saying years ago that Rowling had spoken to him at the very beginning of the process, and had given him some insight into Snape's character and Snape's future. It was tantalizingly vague. I'll go look for it.

Edited to add, when did Accio Quote go away??

Alright, I found this on IMDb,


Not long after Alan Rickman started to play Severus Snape in the first Potter movie (released in 2001), J.K. Rowling told Rickman some character secrets about Snape that would not be otherwise revealed until the last book. Most significantly, for over seven years, Rickman was one of the very few people other than Rowling to know (years ahead of the last book's publication) that Snape had been in love with Lily Evans (later Potter) when they were students at Hogwarts, and both Snape's protection of and antagonism toward Harry came from that. Rowling said that she shared this information with Rickman because "he needed to understand, I think, and does completely understand and did completely understand where this bitterness towards this boy, who's living proof of [Lily's] preference for another man, came from".

That's not the original quote from Rickman himself. That seems to be lost at Accio Quote. It was just an off-hand oblique reference; something like he wanted to reassure movie goers that Jo had told him there was more to the Professor than meets the eye.

I think this comment, "a phone call with Jo Rowling, containing one small clue, persuaded me that there was more to Snape than an unchanging costume" says to me that JKR knew from the start movie Snape was going to have a much smaller presence than he did in the book, and that Alan Rickman needed to be convinced that it was worth it to him to stay on to the very last movie where his part would unfold dramatically.

I will always be disappointed that Snape was not portrayed more in the movies. I will always regret that they didn't include his CAPSLOCK temper tantrum at the end of the book PoA. It would have been spectacular! So I've been telling myself that perhaps Alan Rickman was too expensive to utilize much... Eh. His death scene really was fantastic, satisfying and worth the wait.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:35 pm

Mona wrote:
About Neville - Doesn't he go to McGonagal and request permission to blow up the bridge? And she says, "and take Seamus with you. He's got a flair for Pyrotechnics"?

Yes! I remember that now. McGonnagal got some good lines in this movie.

Good sleuthing, journeymom.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:33 am

We went to see DH2 in IMAX 3D at the Natural History Museum in DC last night. It was expensive and a logistical nightmare getting there and back and all, but it was worth every penny and every pain! STUNNING! I had not realized a 3D movie could be that good. It completely reinforces my conviction that the last 3D movie I saw was just a problem with the theater (I've read that some theaters have been "forcibly re-made" to accommodate 3D and it's not the same as if it was built that way to start with... or something.) This theater is apparently one of the best IMAX screens in the country -- very very large (more so than other IMAXes, I read somewhere?) The 3D quality was unbelievable. You felt as if you could walk through the gates of Hogwarts. In the opening credits where the camera "goes through" the Warner Brothers logo, Little Pince ducked his head because it felt like you were inside it. I just kept grinning like a silly idiot throughout the whole thing and exclaiming under my breath "This is SOOO GREAT!" about every five minutes. (like Flounder from Animal House.) I am so glad we decided to do it.

Visual highlights -- the panorama of sweeping over Hogwarts, the dementors, the dragon, the snake... all that. When Voldemort sent those ribbony-things out to try to ensnare Harry -- those looked cool. The Voldy-bits when he... disintegrated or whatever he did... awesome. The overall video quality was just so so so beautiful.

In addition to the fantastic visual experience, the audio was light-years better as well. I could pick up on some of the dialogue that I couldn't hear well before, although I still would've never understood the "At least we've still got Bogrod" line if someone here hadn't told me beforehand. (For example, the first time through I did not hear Snape say "Look at me..." right before he said "You have your mother's eyes..." but he did indeed say it. Very low and slurred together, but I heard it. Also, I could understand Ron in Gringott's when he said "Imperio" -- the first time I assumed that's what it was but I couldn't hear him say it.)

The best part? When Voldy's voice is whispering to everyone to "Give me Harry Potter and you will all live..." I literally jumped out of my seat, because it felt like Voldemort was right behind me and whispering into my ear! I actually got goosebumps. Very creepy. It felt like it was snaking around me as well, first in one ear and then the other. Brrrrrr....

I looked for Oliver Wood but didn't see him. Saw Percy though, and Romilda Vane I think, and Cormac. It was clearer to me that it was Lavender that Fenrir was eating, and she looked dead for sure. Couldn't see who it was that Trelawney was covering up when she was telling one of the Patil twins "She's passed..." but I presume it was supposed to be the other twin.

Outside the theater, they had the same display that Denise noticed at her IMAX showing, but they were different theaters... dunno if maybe the display is a travelling one and we saw the exact same items, or if they just have several duplicate items (I know they usually have several costume changes per scene.) It was Dan Radcliffe's Hogwarts robe and Gryffindor scarf, and then Neville's outfit from DH2 -- the sweater was the one used from the final Battle of Hogwarts scene because the sleeve was torn and the cuff was ripped -- it exactly matched the tears in the sweater you can see on him in the big stand-up 3-dimensional poster that was standing in the lobby. (Yes, I am a total geek and went over to inspect the poster up close to ensure that the rips/tears were in the same places. ) Neville is quite a bit taller than Harry!

Must run... I'll post more later if I think of it. Seems like I had a lot more to rave about...

Edit: I remember a few other things... I had been lamenting not hearing Aberforth's conversation with the Death Eaters when he "let the cat out"... in this improved audio presentation, I could hear some of the background conversation. I definitely heard the words "stag" and "goat." So that was a cool little in-joke thing for us readers, but I'm sure not many people heard it. I'm still disappointed that wasn't made clearer. Also, the scene regarding why Neville was alone on the bridge facing the multitude -- before that, there's a scene with McGonnagal coming out of Hogwarts and Neville has this look of wonderment on his face and he says (paraphrasing) "Let me get this straight, Professor... you're actually giving us permission to blow it up? Completely destroy it?" and McGonnagal says "That is correct Longbottom." Then he asks how they're going to do it or something, and she says something like "I'd suggest you take Mr. Finnigan with you -- as I recall he has a special proclivity for pyrotechnics." Then they run off together in delight. In this 3D presentation, I could see the silvery-looking "Magical TNT" or whatever it was stuffed underneath the bridge and could see that Neville was shooting his wand at those targets as he was running away from the DEs -- on the first viewing I just thought he was randomly firing hexes over his shoulder as he fled and I was kinda disappointed in him -- I thought a DA member could do better than that. Now that I see the "real" version, I'm all "You go, Neville!" again. LOL. Oh, and it was a way cool 3D effect when Neville swung the sword to behead Nagini. Neville just rocked all the way around. I still couldn't quite hear what he said when he asked Harry "Where's Luna?" It almost sounded like he said "I have to tell her I'm hot for her" but surely not...


Last edited by Madam Pince on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : My remembrall kicked in...)
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:09 pm


Excellent, Madam Pince! I'm actually interested in seeing the IMAX 3D now, wasn't before.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:59 pm

In the re-watch, something occurred to me that I'd never wondered before (I don't think, anyway...)

When Harry said "He knows. Voldemort knows we're destroying horcruxes," and then said something like "The snake's the last one -- kill the snake," I wondered hmmmmm... what's keeping Voldemort from making more Horcruxes right now while everyone's running around Hogwarts? He's certainly killed enough people that day. I suppose it's that a soul simply can only split so many times, and he's maxed out on his, but still... that wasn't explained to us, was it?

Anyway. Not to be difficult.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  journeymom on Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:54 pm

Good point! I don't think JK Rowling mentioned anything like that, though it is logical.

My flip answer to my very literal-minded son when he says, "Why don't they just do such-and-such??" is, 'Because if they did that the story would be over." Not very helpful, I know.


Last edited by journeymom on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling, clarity.)
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Madam Pince on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:07 pm

Your son and I would get along famously.
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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  Verity Weasley on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:07 pm

Well firstly, Voldie didn't actually feel it when a horcrux was destroyed, that was just movie contamination. So, in the book, he only realised they were hunting horcruxes after the Gringott's break-in.

Secondly, Voldie suffered from that most grievous of faults - underestimating his opponents. He brought about his own downfall through his arrogance. It simply never occurred to him that Harry et al would be successful in destroying his remaining horcruxes, especially Nagini who was under his personal protection.

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

Post  NFla_Barbara on Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:28 am

Just back from seeing it a second time at our IMAX. I was going to post a few things I noticed this time but I see Madame Pince completely beat me to it! I did notice many of the same things, e.g. Neville's conversation with McGonagall about blowing up the bridge, "look at me," and catching a couple of words, including "goat," after Aberforth called the trio to come in. I enjoyed Snape's memories even more this time and there, too, caught a few glimpses of things I had missed the first time. Funny, I found it sadder to watch this time. I'm not sure why.

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Re: Deathy Hallows Part II

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