Shack on the Large Rock Way Out to Sea

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Shack on the Large Rock Way Out to Sea

Post  Lady Arabella on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:46 pm

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Post  Lady Arabella on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:48 pm

Shack on the Large Rock Way Out to Sea

CatherineHermiona - May 26, 2005 2:44 am
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 1:23 pm

Remember the shack were Dursleys came with Harry to hide from the Hogwarts letters?. That man who gave them that shack, whose it was? Maybe that was purposely. Maybe that man is a wizard who was in connection to Hogwarts.

I would like to see what you think about it. Bye!!!

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applepie - May 26, 2005 6:05 am (#1 of 137)

I don't remember who gave it to them, but I did find it very odd that they would stay there being that Vernon and Petunia are such "clean freaks", and Petunia seemed to be sincerely frightened of the place.

Not to mention the fact that Dudley had to be taken from all his "worldly possessions" for the purposes of Harry seems like they were punishing Dudley...and that is unheard of in the Dursley house.



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CatherineHermiona - May 26, 2005 11:38 am (#2 of 137)

Maybe he (Vernon Dursley) was under a spell that the old man did to him. I think that Vernon would not acting like that if he wasn't out of mind.

By the way, this is description of that old man: A toothless old man came ambling up to them, pointing, with a rather wicked grin, at an old rowing boat bobbing in the iron-grey water below them. (Bloomsbury edition)

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applepie - May 26, 2005 12:01 pm (#3 of 137)

That shack is just beyond everything that the Dursley's stand for, so it is significant to me that they were so against Harry going to Hogwarts, that they were willing to go against everything they hold dear, and subject themselves to such "revolting" living quarters. There has to be a deeper reason for them not to want him to go. Why else wouldn't they want to get rid of him for 9-10 months out of the year?

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Finn BV - May 26, 2005 4:21 pm (#4 of 137)
Edited May 26, 2005 5:21 pm

The fact that it is dirty and "un-Petunia" is simply for the same reason why the Dursleys listen to Harry in OoP after the Dementor attack and give him the bedroom in PS/SS. The reason they didn't want him to go is because they'd clearly not want to be related to anything MAGIC. They would gladly send him off to boarding school (remember Smeltings?) then send him to Hogwarts.

I don't think the shack is of much significance - except to show how dismal a place it was.
Sorry, CatherineHermiona, for the negative response to your theory but … welcome to the forum!

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Ms Amanda - May 26, 2005 6:33 pm (#5 of 137)

I think the shack is important. The building on a rock out in the sea was originally to be where Harry's parents were in hiding, was it not?

Once the house had been moved to Godric's Hollow, why not just eliminate the setting from the series?

I think it will play a role in the rest of the series. Perhaps the Dursleys were led there. Remember, in OotP, Tonks manages to lure the Dursleys from 4PD with a phony competition. Besides, Hagrid flew there in SS/PS, but he and Harry took a boat out. So there might be something that flies parked on that island, which Harry might like to have someday...maybe.

There are lots of clues that suggest this building more than just an interesting backdrop for Harry's introduction to magic.

Great idea, and welcome to the forum!

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hells456 - May 27, 2005 2:48 am (#6 of 137)

This actually feeds into a theory of mine. I believe that the hut on the rock is Spinners End.

Remus Lupin must have had somewhere to go after he left Hogwarts and the hut is perfect. I think it is the place he went to for his transformations, not that he lived there all the time. When I first read about the Shrieking Shack I was struck by the similarity to this hut.

I think the hut was inhabited by Lupin because of the difficulty getting to it, it's remote location, the disrepair of the house (cracks in the walls), having a fireplace. Also why would muggles build a house on a rock that far out to sea? It really is an ideal place for him to safely transform.

The other thing the rock reminded me of was Land's End (literally where the land ends in Cornwall, SW England). Just off the coast there is a rock that you could just about jump onto, and say you jumped off Land's End. I don't know why I thought of it :-)

Anyway, I was thinking Land's End...Spinners End...miserable little shack on a rock...Shrieking Shack...Remus Lupin.

I am often wrong though :-) Hells

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CatherineHermiona - May 27, 2005 2:49 am (#7 of 137)

Thanks, Ms Amanda. I hope someone thinks like you. Maybe that old man is a member of OoP. Maybe that shack is a branch of OoP. Do you know something about that flying thing what you are talking about? Maybe you are right about that. It seemed to me that he did some hidden magic with his umbrella to fly. But your opinion made me think about it more. I didn't think about it but your opinion might be true too. One more thing: if Hagrid and Harry took a boat then how did Dursleys get back?

Thanks one more time. BYE!!!!

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hells456 - May 27, 2005 3:01 am (#8 of 137)

Oh, I forgot, I think the old man with the boat is Tom the barman at the Leaky Cauldron. He is also described as toothless and old. I should imagine that he rowed back over to get the Dursleys.

Hells

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frogface - May 27, 2005 3:32 am (#9 of 137)

Ms Amanda, when you mentioned Hagrid flying over there and leaving an object there...were you thinking of Sirius' flying motorbike? It immediately sprung to my mind when you mentioned something Harry might like to have some day!

Even if the shack doesn't end up being significant I believe JKR did put it there as a sort of acknowledgement to her old idea of having the Potter's hide in that shack on the large rock way out to sea.

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CatherineHermiona - May 27, 2005 9:05 am (#10 of 137)

I guess I made a good thread. I think that the flying thing could be Sirius' motorcycle. That could be still there somewhere, ha? Maybe behind the house (if it can be called a house). And theory about Tom the barman could be true too. Does it write anywhere about that he had to leave Leaky Cauldron. I mean, he have to visit it from time to time. I guess that shack is his as much as a boat.

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frogface - May 27, 2005 12:51 pm (#11 of 137)

I think if it was Tom, Harry would recognize him. After all he sees Tom the very next day when Hagrid takes him into the Leaky Caulderon.

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timrew - May 27, 2005 2:51 pm (#12 of 137)

I'm sorry. Why should it be Tom? In fact, why should it be anybody we know?

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hells456 - May 27, 2005 3:11 pm (#13 of 137)

It doesn't have to be anyone we know, it's just part of one of my unlikely theories.

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zelmia - May 27, 2005 8:40 pm (#14 of 137)
Edited May 27, 2005 9:41 pm

I'm sure that, even in Rowling's world, there is more than one toothless elderly man living in England - maybe even one whom we'll never see again.

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CatherineHermiona - May 28, 2005 3:18 am (#15 of 137)

There have to be more than one toothless old man in the muggle world, and even more in magic world where some stereotypes are with no teeth. That can be some very old man with more than hundred years. It is very unlikely to be so old in muggle world but in magic world it is normal. The point is that I don't think that Tom the barman is old more than hundred years but this man (if he is a wizard at all) could be old more than hundred, if you understand me.

One more thing, the ones that think different, just tell it. Because this are just my guesses that don't have to be true. Maybe your opinions are more persuasive.

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haymoni - May 28, 2005 6:59 pm (#16 of 137)

By the time they got to the Hut, Vernon had already driven them all over the place - the movie makes us forget. They were just grateful to be SOME place, any place, besides that car.

I've always thought it strange that Vernon & Petunia didn't hand Harry right over to Hagrid. You'd think they'd want to be rid of him. The same question came to my mind during "Chamber" - why did they try to stop Harry from running off with the Weasley boys?

Unless it was all too keep folks from asking where Harry had gone. The Dursleys were, after all, "perfectly normal, thank you very much."

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Solitaire - May 28, 2005 9:02 pm (#17 of 137)

I think the Dursleys simply did not want anything magic touching their lives anymore. They clearly saw magic as an "option"--something that one chose to do--rather than as something that was intrinsically part of who one is. They seemed to think they could "stamp it out of" Harry. If they never told him who he was, then the magic would not exist for him.

It would seem, however, that if one is magical, the magic is going to "come out" anyway. It will just be unfocused, undisciplined, and chaotic. But back to the issue at hand ... I think the Dursleys were so "anti-magic" that they were willing to endure anything to escape it. It just doesn't work that way.

Hells, I find your idea about Remus using the shack on the rock very interesting. It certainly does make sense. Given the fact that the Wolfsbane potion is a "recent invention"--we learn of it in PoA--it's possible that he used the shack on the rock for his transformations until just before Harry came of age to attend Hogwarts. Hm ... very interesting.

Solitaire

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Jessalynn Quirky - Jun 2, 2005 3:36 am (#18 of 137)

The reason they weren't "glad to be rid of him for 9-10 months" was because the rest of the year, they'd have to live with magic. Remember, they didn't know about the rule where Harry can't perform magic during the summer until book 2 where he got the warning--For all they knew, they would be getting rid of him for most of the year, but when he came back he'd turn them all into toads!

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applepie - Jun 2, 2005 1:29 pm (#19 of 137)
Edited Jun 2, 2005 2:29 pm

I still think they would have been glad to have him out of the house. Petunia had to know that they couldn't perform magic if Lily had been to Hogwarts. I just think they were trying so hard to denounce the fact that magic even existed, that by giving in and letting him go, they would have been admitting that it was real.

Aside from the fact that they thought they would have to pay for it.

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Ms Amanda - Jun 2, 2005 3:56 pm (#20 of 137)

You know, I have to wonder, if Petunia knew that Harry couldn't perform magic, why she didn't put Dudley's fears to rest.

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Justin Rapp - Jun 2, 2005 7:54 pm (#21 of 137)
Edited Jun 2, 2005 8:55 pm

Hey! First time posting in about a year - really happy to be back.

Toothless old man, huh. I don't remember offhand, but isn't there a similar description of Aberforth Dumbledore? Also, I think there was someone in the Boar's Head at the initial discussion for the DA that was also toothless.

I wonder if we're looking too much into this. But if we are wrong by doing so, I don't want to be right! Razz

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 3, 2005 12:16 am (#22 of 137)
Edited Jun 3, 2005 1:17 am

Aberforth Dumbledore. Hmm, good idea. Never thought about that. By the way, I'm new here and didn't really hear about you, Justin Rapp, but still, welcome back.

One more thing, is in that shack anyone that lives there whole year? Or only from time to time? Or neither that?

And I thought about that post that was more than few posts ago, about Lupin. It really can be true, I mean, about that he is spending his transformations time there.

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mike miller - Jun 3, 2005 10:36 am (#23 of 137)

I'm not sure the shack on the rock has any real significance. What are the odds of after Vernon's helter skelter rambling to avoid the owls for Harry that the Dursleys would end up meeting someone from the wizarding world and renting the shack Lupin used for safe transformations? If it were so, then I'd say we have all vastly under-estimated Dumbledore's powers.

I think Hagrid flew there to retrieve Harry on the back of a very large thestral, so even Sirius's old motorcycle is probably somewhere else, maybe Spinners End?

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Ms Amanda - Jun 3, 2005 3:45 pm (#24 of 137)

I'd think that he flew there on a thestral, except Harry heard a roaring sound. It really seemed strange to add that bit in there, as he should have been hearing it all along if it were the sea or a storm. He noticed the sound specifically.

And there was no way for Hagrid to know that Harry wouldn't see the thestral. No one knew he wasn't able to see them until he saw the "horseless" carriages at the school. Can you imagine the shock Harry would have had to see the skeleton-horse-reptile thing with while eyes standing on the rock?

But, as much as I think the bike IS there, I wonder why Harry didn't see it.

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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 3, 2005 3:47 pm (#25 of 137)
Edited Jun 3, 2005 4:58 pm

In SS after Hagrid delivered Harry to Dumbledore he said he would return the motorbike to Sirius.I think the motorbike is wherever Sirius was before his arrest.

Someone said that on the SS dvd extras it shows the bike parked next to Hagrids hut. Haven't seen it myself.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 3, 2005 11:10 pm (#26 of 137)
Edited Jun 4, 2005 12:10 am

Maybe this is best pursued on the motorbike thread? Maybe Hagrid shrunk it and put it in that coat of his that seems to hold everything a body might need :-)

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Jessalynn Quirky - Jun 4, 2005 2:45 am (#27 of 137)

Or maybe Hagrid left it there in the shack, although probably hidden from the Dursleys. This would make sense if the theories that the shack is somehow related to the Potters or Lupin. I'm not saying I agree with those theories, I'm just saying it makes sense.

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 4, 2005 6:18 am (#28 of 137)

Mike miller, we don't know if this shack has simbolizam. If we knew that it has or hasn't simbolizam, we wouldn't have this thread. Or that we know anything else about any other thread that wouldn't exist.

Maybe in that shack is hidden something that Dursleys might "accidentally" left there. Or someone (DD or someone) left it there so Harry find it before 5 years (or after so he can find it when he will be old enough) but he didn't (letter that explains everything or something).

Kate

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Ms Amanda - Jun 4, 2005 10:32 am (#29 of 137)

I see the shack on the rock as a place where Harry has to face great changes in his life. Things don't really change much for him at the Dursley's. JKR created a place where the Dursleys DON'T have control as a setting for Harry to accept magic into his life.

I find it an interesting choice for Vernon to make. He relied on the rules of his world to barricade Harry from magic. When usual methods of keeping the mail from coming failed to insulate him, he tried relying on NATURE. He thought that the sea and the storm would keep them safe.

This setting may or may not reappear in the book. I lean toward seeing it reappear because this was a place where Harry made a turning point. Harry is in a lot of pain. Wouldn't it be natural for him to question his acceptance of magic? Even if Harry does not make a return to the place physically, I think we'll see it again in his dreams as he ponders the price of his decision.

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Choices - Jun 4, 2005 6:04 pm (#30 of 137)
Edited Jun 4, 2005 7:06 pm

CatherineHermiona - "we don't know if this shack has simbolizam."

OK, I'm going to exhibit both my curiosity and my ignorance here.....what is "simbolizam"??? If the shack doesn't have it, I want to know just what it is that it doesn't have? Even my dictionary doesn't know what it is. Help me out here.

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GryffEndora - Jun 4, 2005 6:23 pm (#31 of 137)

Choices - CatherineHermiona is a 12 year old girl living in Croatia. English is not her first language and this is only her 3rd year of studying it. I believe the word she is looking for is symbolism.

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Choices - Jun 4, 2005 6:32 pm (#32 of 137)

LOL Thanks GryffEndora - I knew she was not English or American. Her writing is very good though and I just thought that might be a word in her language or an English one I had not heard of. I just had to ask as I am always willing to learn something new. No offense meant at all - just curious. Thanks for explaining. :-)

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 5, 2005 1:08 am (#33 of 137)

ROFL Sorry about it but I found one mistake and I had to back to edit the message and I forgot to check spelling. I hope now you understand.

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Steve Newton - Jun 8, 2005 4:45 am (#34 of 137)

Several people have suggested that Hagrid might have flown Sirius' cycle to the island. I find no reason to think that. Thestrals seem to be a more likely means. Hagrid does have a herd, after all.

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Mrs Brisbee - Jun 8, 2005 5:14 am (#35 of 137)
Edited Jun 8, 2005 6:15 am

I think Hagrid might be a tad large for a poor thestral to carry. Madame Maxime's giant horses seem to be a more fitting size, but he didn't know her back then.

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Choices - Jun 8, 2005 8:59 am (#36 of 137)

Maybe he flew there on a Thestral with an engorgement charm on it???

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Robert Dierken - Jun 8, 2005 3:06 pm (#37 of 137)

I still think that he flew to the island with his umbrella. After all, it works for Mary Poppins!

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applepie - Jun 8, 2005 3:20 pm (#38 of 137)
Edited Jun 8, 2005 4:21 pm

Thanks for the laugh, Robert. That mental picture is very amusing.

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Ms Amanda - Jun 9, 2005 3:16 am (#39 of 137)

Ah, but if Hagrid took a thestral out to the shack, then there'd be no reason for us to see the shack again. The tamed thestral would have just flown back home.

I believe that the shack is an important setting. JKR took a lot of time describing it. She chose it carefully, just as Vernon did. As the scene plays out with Vernon trying to choose where to go, I read it as saying that the scene could have taken place in lots of different settings. JKR chose the shack.

In an earlier draft of SS/PS, the shack was where Lily, James, and Harry were hiding the night Voldemort attacked them. The setting was changed for the attack, but JKR still introduced the shack in book one. I hope the reason for that is JKR planned for Harry to return to the shack.

A great excuse to return to the shack would be Sirius' motorcycle, which would have had to be left behind once Hagrid picked up Harry.

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Mrs Brisbee - Jun 9, 2005 4:08 am (#40 of 137)

Leaving a motorcycle on a rock in the sea for 5 years can't be good for the motorcycle. I do think he flew there on the motorcycle, and went back to pick it up after he put Harry on the train home. If Hagrid did keep the motorcycle after Srius lent it to him, then he's had a place to stash it at Hogwarts all these years. Why abandon it on a rock?

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Ms Amanda - Jun 9, 2005 2:28 pm (#41 of 137)

Because he thought Sirius had betrayed Harry?

You know, he'd dropped Harry off in the Muggle world on that motorcycle. Sometime off-screen, so to speak, Hagrid found out that Sirius had been the Potters' secret-keeper. (Not really of course, but Hagrid believed it.) He hoped he'd be the one entrusted with Harry again later, and, being the sentimental giant that he is, he used it to retrieve Harry.

Then he abandoned the reminder of the betrayal of the Potters and himself. (Remember, he took it hard that he'd comforted Sirius at Godric's Hollow.)

What better place to leave a thing than on a rock way out to sea? It probably didn't matter to him at the time if the thing rusted away.

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Cornelia - Jun 10, 2005 3:09 am (#42 of 137)

I don´t think it will be rusted away, it´s a magical motorcycle...

The shack is a very good hiding place. Harry (or at least he can ask Hagrid) knows where it is, but does Voldemort?

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 10, 2005 11:22 am (#43 of 137)

I don't think Hagrid would drive a motorcycle to shack because then he thought that Sirius betrayed the Potters and I guess he didn't want to drive his motorcycle. Maybe he got there with Buckbeak because then Buckbeak was still with him.

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Choices - Jun 10, 2005 5:26 pm (#44 of 137)

The Dursleys and Harry went to the shack out in the sea in book 1 - a bit before Buckbeak made his entrance. We didn't meet Buckbeak until book 3. I think the best bet is that Hagrid flew on a Thestral.....a really, really big Thestral. LOL

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GryffEndora - Jun 10, 2005 6:43 pm (#45 of 137)

Choices, your line of reasoning would also exclude the possibility of a thestral because they weren't introduced until book 5. The only methods of flight we've heard of in book 1 is plane, helicopter, other muggle flight, broomstick and motorcycle. In fact the flying motorcycle is in the beginning and then repeated from Harry's dream. There is no spell to make a wizard fly. Either Hagrid used a method from a later book or his flight options are broomstick or flying motorcycle.

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 11, 2005 4:47 am (#46 of 137)

First, where writes how old is Buckbeak and when Hagrid found it. But it really can be broomstick. Can Hagrid be on broomstick without breaking it? Why couldn't it be a flying carpet? If flying carpet was forbidden then, that doesn't prevent Hagrid to use it (he has his umbrella in spite the prohibition or he can use invisibility cloak that can be borrow from Dumbledore

Maybe invisibility cloak was kept there in the shack before Dumbledore. given it to Harry.

Maybe shack is one of the places that look like old secluded ruins to muggles and ones that didn't discovered magic jet and in facts is some beautiful villa.

Kate

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Choices - Jun 11, 2005 8:02 am (#47 of 137)

My line of reasoning about Buckbeak was that perhaps he wasn't old enough in book one for Hagrid to use. I am sure Hagrid might possibly have used another member of the herd, but since Thestrals are so good at finding places, and the shack on the rock in the sea is sort of out of the way, maybe Hagrid needed a creature that was good at directions.

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spinowner - Jun 11, 2005 2:37 pm (#48 of 137)

I think it was a thestral but it could have been Fawkes.

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GryffEndora - Jun 11, 2005 3:46 pm (#49 of 137)
Edited Jun 11, 2005 4:46 pm

Aaaahhhhhh. So sorry I misunderstood your point Choices. I understand now. Thanks!

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Ms Amanda - Jun 12, 2005 7:29 am (#50 of 137)

The only object we've seen Hagrid fly on is the motorcycle. In book five, he mentions, when he's babbling to Umbridge, that he is too big to ride on a broomstick. Hagrid has mentioned that Dumbledore flies on a thestral, but I don't remember him saying that he did. Same thing about hippogriffs. Hagrid, that I remember, does not say that he himself rides any hippogriff.

Besides the possibility that there might be something interesting at the shack, I find the setting itself very interesting. It seems to be the embodiment of nature. Harry finding out about his magic there seems to contradict Vernon's feelings that the magical world is "unnatural."

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 12, 2005 8:25 am (#51 of 137)

Vernon is man that hates anything untidy and uncomfortable. That shack is just like that. I don't think that Vernon choose that shack by himself. I think he was under a spell that made him feel like that is some more stable and more beautiful house but still impervious enough to prevent Harry from letters.

About equipment that Hagrid had when he was coming to pick up Harry. This is how I imagined him: Big man flying with open arms with closed umbrella in one hand.

Shack looks to me like important setting too. That should (at least in my opinion) show us at least one more time. If not as nothing else, then like some kind of someone's house.

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Choices - Jun 12, 2005 8:49 am (#52 of 137)

Have we suggested that perhaps Dumbledore sent Hagrid to the shack on the rock by portkey? Perhaps the umbrella was used as the portkey. I think traveling that way could be called "flying" - maybe Hagrid just said that because he knew Harry would not understand a more detailed explanation at that point. Harry didn't even know he was a wizard, must less about using a portkey to "fly" there.

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frogface - Jun 13, 2005 2:25 pm (#53 of 137)

Has anyone noticed the boat on the HBP book cover? Think it could be related somehow? I know the background looks like some kind of rocky wall, so there probably isn't a connection, I just thought I bring to to people's attention.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 14, 2005 12:08 am (#54 of 137)

Maybe there is a connection, tunnel from Hogwarts the twins know nothing about. Some seem to think Harry's knowledge of the map, tis interesting that he never really "studies" that map. The Maurader's, and the twins time combined at Hogwarts is 14 years? And Hogwarts is who old...?

...then again, maybe not....

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Jessalynn Quirky - Jun 14, 2005 7:10 am (#55 of 137)

TBE, are you saying it's possible that there is a tunnel from Hogwarts to the shack that may/may not be on the Maurader's Map? I'm a bit confused.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 14, 2005 5:38 pm (#56 of 137)

Exactly!

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dizzy lizzy - Jun 14, 2005 5:45 pm (#57 of 137)
Edited Jun 14, 2005 6:45 pm

The tunnel seems to be a possible theory linking both the shack and Hogwarts. I seem to recall we don't actually get "told" where this shack is.

For all we know it’s not far from Hogwarts at all. Remember Mr Dursley did a fair amount of driving and back-tracking and all that. He could have easily been manipulated to visit the shack. By whom I've no idea - some theories but no real concrete evidence.

Lizzy

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Solitaire - Jun 14, 2005 9:09 pm (#58 of 137)

Choices, the idea about the Portkey seems interesting. I also think it is possible that Hagrid may have apparated. Remember that at the end of Chapter 5 in PS/SS, Harry pressed his nose against the train window "to watch Hagrid until he was out of sight; he rose in his seat and pressed his nose against the window, but he blinked and Hagrid had gone." This sounds to me like he may have disapparated.

I know we tend to think of Hagrid as being less-than-capable with regard to magic ... but perhaps he has had to learn to apparate and disapparate, given the fact that he seems to run important errands for Dumbledore.

Solitaire

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frogface - Jun 15, 2005 3:12 am (#59 of 137)

The shack is somewhere near London if I recall correctly, where Hogwarts is somewhere much futher north. So I doubt there is a possiblity they are connected. (It would be several hours distance) I was just throwing out a possibility that the boat on the cover could somehow be connected to the shack on the rock. (But I don't really think they are).

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 15, 2005 4:02 am (#60 of 137)

Boat can be portkey by itself because there is the lake in Hogwarts' yard and Hagrid could very easy be transported to shack.

Kate

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hells456 - Jun 15, 2005 6:58 am (#61 of 137)

London isn't really near the sea.

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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 7:40 am (#62 of 137)

And anyway, they drove all day before Vernon spot the shack, they could be rather far from London.

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Solitaire - Jun 15, 2005 10:16 am (#63 of 137)

Or they could have driven around and around a particular area ...

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frogface - Jun 15, 2005 11:51 am (#64 of 137)
Edited Jun 15, 2005 12:58 pm

But Harry and Hagrid went to London the next day. We're not told how they got there, but I'm sure that if it was anything magical it would have been described, so they'd have to have got the bus, taxi train. And yes I know London isn't very near the Sea (I love in south england) But it is in travelling distance. South End is quite near to London and sea is connected to that.

The point is that I don't think the shack is physically linked to Hogwarts, because its too far.

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Solitaire - Jun 15, 2005 1:56 pm (#65 of 137)

Well, Hagrid tells Harry he flew to the rock, so that lets out apparating. Harry and Hagrid took the boat (powered by magic) back to the shore. In chapter 5, the text says "they walked through the little town to the train station." They took a train into to London. The narrative says Hagrid took up two seats on the train, and he got stuck in the ticket barrier in the Underground.

Solitaire

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 16, 2005 3:52 am (#66 of 137)

If I remember well, anything can be portkey and once you use it you can't use it again unless you charm that again. Maybe boat used twice and after that it is usual boat. I think that time when something happened to Mr. Weasley Dumbledore used something and charmed that only for that time.

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Solitaire - Jun 17, 2005 12:27 am (#67 of 137)

I think the boat is just a boat--NOT a portkey. Hagrid used magic to power it to the shore. He asked Harry not to say anything about it. The book is pretty clear about that. As I stated previously, Hagrid told Harry he flew to the island. How? That part he did not say.

Solitaire

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pottermom34 - Jun 17, 2005 7:10 am (#68 of 137)

Maybe he used his umbrella/wand the way the Penguin would he just stepped onto the handle and it carried him away like a whirlybird.

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Jessalynn Quirky - Jun 17, 2005 4:28 pm (#69 of 137)
Edited Jun 17, 2005 5:29 pm

Or maybe he used his wand/umbrella to make the boat fly over the water--wasn't there a storm that night? If there was, the waters might have been too rough for a small boat like that to get to the shack safely. On the way back in the morning, the storm would have gone, so Hagrid simply made the boat go faster instead of flying.

Anyway, makes sense to me.

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Ms Amanda - Jun 17, 2005 6:35 pm (#70 of 137)

Well, it would make sense in another world, but I don't think flying charms are that easy to put on objects, and Hagrid only has a third-year education in magic.

Levitation Charms are an important bit of magic, but actual flying charms seem to be less common. That's why it would take a powerful bit of dark magic to curse Harry's broom in PS/SS. That's why Arthur spent so much time tinkering with the car in CoS. Flying carpets would have to be imported because nobody in England does it although that may be because it is against the law (GoF). The motorbike of Sirius seems to be unique to the point that it would be identifiable as his and no one else's (PoA).

Now that I've found the passage in the book, I have a few more points. Even though the storm had been raging ferociously the entire night, Harry makes a special note that "Dudley's snores were drowned by the low rolls of thunder that started near midnight." emphasis mine. Then Harry heard a creak that made him think the roof would fall in, something that slapped hard on the rock, and a crunching that made him think the rock was falling into the sea.

I don't think Harry heard thunder. If he did, then a thestral is the next closest thing to the noises he hears.

But if we're right, then we'll find out what's there, right? I really believe it's coming back.

As for the shack, Vernon first turned down a forest, the middle of a plowed field, halfway across a suspension bridge, and on top of a multilevel parking garage. While Vernon was really under stress at the moment, I can't figure out why he'd even pause at the last three. He progresses, it seems, from land uninhabited by Muggles to the height of Muggle-ness - a place to park cars. While my theory earlier was that Vernon decided to abandon Muggles and trust in nature to keep magic away (thinking that magic was unnaturalness), I wonder now how whether that pattern holds water, so to speak.

As for the old man that lent them the boat, I love his "wicked" grin. Yuck, he's toothless! I don't want that image in my mind!

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Ydnam96 - Jun 17, 2005 6:55 pm (#71 of 137)

I think that Hagrid probably used a portkey to get close to the shack and then used the boat to get back across. I'm sure DD had no problem setting up a portkey for him, he's done it before.

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Solitaire - Jun 17, 2005 9:16 pm (#72 of 137)

Well, he does actually say he flew.

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Choices - Jun 18, 2005 8:37 am (#73 of 137)
Edited Jun 18, 2005 9:39 am

I would consider using a portkey "flying" - you fly from one point to another. You certainly don't walk or swim - so what's left? Flying. I think Hagrid just says he flew because at that point he knew Harry would not understand a more complete explanation about portkeys, thestrals, hippogriffs, broomsticks, flying motorcycles, apparation, etc.

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Lina - Jun 18, 2005 11:24 am (#74 of 137)

Actually, Harry did not understand many of other things that Hagrid did mention.

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Paulus Maximus - Jun 21, 2005 2:22 pm (#75 of 137)

Apparition happens with a bang, such that it could be mistaken for a gunshot, or a car backfiring... or possibly thunder.

Yet, I do not think that Hagrid would have risked Splinching himself, or getting in legal trouble. And anyway, he said he flew...

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spinowner - Jun 22, 2005 1:22 pm (#76 of 137)

Apparition is not necessarily loud. I've read a theory that speculates that the loudness is inversely proportional to the magical power of the individual. For example, in the beginning of PS/SS DD appears in Privet Drive without a sound.

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Paulus Maximus - Jun 22, 2005 1:29 pm (#77 of 137)

Yes, but did he Apparate, or had he been invisible?

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Solitaire - Jun 22, 2005 11:03 pm (#78 of 137)

A few moments before Hagrid knocks and then breaks down the door, Harry hears some unusual sounds outside: Was that the sea, slapping hard on the rock like that? And ... what was that funny crunching noise? Was the rock crumbling into the sea?

Could that have been Hagrid landing? Could he have been apparating?

Solitaire

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Ms Amanda - Jun 23, 2005 3:46 am (#79 of 137)

Hagrid can't apparate at this point. It's magic, and you have to have a license to apparate. While DD might have given Hagrid permission to use some magic, I don't believe the ministry would.

There is no spell to just make a wizard fly.

So he had to be using something that could. As Hagrid says he doesn't ride broomsticks, that would leave Sirius' bike and thestrals.

So, I'm thinking those sounds must have been Hagrid landing.

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Paulus Maximus - Jun 23, 2005 4:15 am (#80 of 137)

There is no spell to just make a wizard fly.

It's not like we know every spell in the book...

For all we know, there might be...

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Ms Amanda - Jun 23, 2005 4:18 pm (#81 of 137)

No, we don't know every spell in the book, but JKR does.

In Quidditch through the Ages, it states specifically that there is no magic that allows a wizard to fly unaided.

And in the Lexicon itself, under "Flying Magic," it contains the quote. I don't own Quidditch through the Ages myself, but I looked through the Lex to be sure before I wrote that.

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Paulus Maximus - Jun 23, 2005 5:33 pm (#82 of 137)

I stand corrected.

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CatherineHermiona - Jun 28, 2005 1:26 am (#83 of 137)

I don't know - does Hagrid knows how to apparate or is he allowed to do that? At all, he was expelled when he was third year in Hogwarts and his wand was broken. He is still doing magic but he maybe didn't even pass the apparation exam because he couldn't even go on exam because he was expelled.

Kate

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Ms Amanda - Jun 28, 2005 5:26 pm (#84 of 137)

Exactly, CatherineHermiona. Hagrid was expelled in third year and he's not allowed to do magic until Harry's third year.

He's allowed to use objects which have been charmed and he's allowed to tend for magical creatures like Fluffy during the year covered in PS/SS. He's allowed access to Hogwarts because he is the keeper.

But he says he's not allowed to do magic.

Dumbledore was making some exceptions, I think, while he was searching for Harry. But I don't believe the MoM would allow him to do something as advanced as apparation. He's never been licensed, as we know he could not have received his license as early as third year. After his third year-no magic; therefore, no license.

So, if not apparition and not flight without the aide of a charmed object, since these don't seem possible in JKR's world for Hagrid, what would be the best means for Hagrid to get to the shack?

Also, does anyone else feel that it is important that JKR lets us know on her website that the shack way out to sea was going to be where the Potters were hiding out the night Harry got his scar? Sure, she changed it, but somehow that seems significant to me. I can't quite put my finger on it, though.

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Solitaire - Jun 28, 2005 7:12 pm (#85 of 137)

Well, he (Hagrid) certainly seemed to vanish into thin air as Harry was looking out the train window in PS/SS.

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Ms Amanda - Jun 28, 2005 7:22 pm (#86 of 137) Reply
Edited by Jun 28, 2005 8:30 pm<P>

Harry was looking out the train window when Hagrid disappeared?

Anyway, maybe it's a giant invisibility cloak. Or a secret passage. And I'm taking this to another thread, I think.

Edit: I posted on the Hagrid thread. Thanks, Solitaire, for pointing out that Hagrid does seem to disappear!

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Solitaire - Jun 28, 2005 8:45 pm (#87 of 137)

Amanda, maybe Dumbledore zonked him back to Hogwarts! Who knows?

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Aurora Gubbins - Jul 14, 2005 1:49 pm (#88 of 137)

Hagrid can use charmed objects - what about portkeys? The size of him he could keep all manner of portkeys about his person - even such a thing as a statue's head!

Aurora xx

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 15, 2005 2:08 am (#89 of 137)

Who authorizes and monitors portkeys? Seems Fudge tried to tell Dumbledore he couldn't do that without authorization, esp. in front of the MOM?

Might be a bit of magic tricky to hide.

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Ms Amanda - Aug 6, 2005 2:41 pm (#90 of 137)

Ok, I'd just like to say, is there any chance at all that the shack holds a horcrux?

Or, do you think perhaps Harry needs a method of traveling that would hold all three of his comrades and that could be used on land in front of Muggles? If the motorbike is there, perhaps it will serve as much-needed transport.

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CatherineHermiona - Aug 7, 2005 10:51 am (#91 of 137)

Maybe there is horcrux in that shack but that would mean that shack has some relations with Voldemort. Maybe he visited shack during he was younger. Maybe that old man who gave shack to Dursleys was there on Quirell's command (Voldemort's in fact) or was under Imperius curse so that Voldemort can use him for the same thing that he used him four years after. But he didn't have success so ha decided to use Philosopher's Stone.

Kate

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CatherineHermiona - Aug 21, 2005 4:20 am (#92 of 137)

We were listening PS/SS on a trip to Dubrovnik and on way back and I saw that when Harry is celebrating his birthday in shack he heard some noise that could be apparation or something on motorcycle has been broken.

‘Five minutes to go. Harry heard something creak outside. He hoped the roof wasn't going to fall in, although he might be warmer if it did. ...’

‘Three minutes to go. Was that the sea, slapping hard on the rock like that? And (two minutes to go) what was that funny crunching noise? Was that the rock crumbling into the sea?’

Kate

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Dame Peverell - Aug 23, 2005 3:58 am (#93 of 137)

# Perhaps DD or his minion (or Fawkes) apparated there and took Hagrid along with him and then left right away.
# Also, when it comes to portkeys, I have the impression DD makes them pretty much at will; at least in his office. Perhaps he knows how to conceal them from the MOM.

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haymoni - Aug 23, 2005 5:37 am (#94 of 137)

Hagrid said he flew there.

Flew how?

I thought he took the motorcycle, but that wouldn't creak or slap. The wheels may crunch on the rocks, but I thought that was Hagrid walking.

The slap on the rocks could be the slap of leathery wings from a Thestral.

What would creak though?

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Snuffles - Aug 23, 2005 5:42 am (#95 of 137)

It was probably just Hagrid's knees!

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Dame Peverell - Aug 24, 2005 6:15 am (#96 of 137)

No, it was the Thestral’s back after Hagrid’s weight was on it. lol!

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CatherineHermiona - Sep 1, 2005 4:41 am (#97 of 137)

That could be Fawkes because that would be the way to fly and we know that phoenixes can take very big weight so Hagrid could go with Fawkes and then Fawkes can go back to Dumbledore.

Kate

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haymoni - Sep 1, 2005 7:08 am (#98 of 137)

Ooh! That's a good one.

I've really got a "Mary Poppins" image going here.

Poor Fawkes!

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 1, 2005 2:39 pm (#99 of 137)

A thestral makes the most sense. Hagrid could've sent it away as soon as he got off it. Or maybe it stuck around for a bit--it would've been invisible to Harry at that point. Thestrals are strong; one probably could carry Hagrid. I'm not sure if we're told this directly, but it's implied that Hagrid can see them... did he perhaps witness his father's death?

The crunch was probably Hagrid's footsteps on gravel, and the thestral's, too.

As for needing to get permission from the Ministry to use other means of travel, like a portkey, surely the Ministry would've okayed it under the circumstances.

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haymoni - Sep 2, 2005 5:39 am (#100 of 137)

Hagrid says he flew. You don't fly with a portkey - you are transported.

What could Hagrid use to fly?

Not a broomstick - he's too big.

I'm still holding out that he used the motorcycle and left it on the island. I'm guessing he went back for it or maybe had someone "Accio" it for him.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 2, 2005 1:58 pm (#101 of 137)

Good point about the flying, Haymoni.

I'm holding out for a thestral or Fawkes--something that could fly away of its own accord. Maybe a hippogriff--if Buckbeak could carry Harry, Hermione, and Sirius all at once, then hippogriffs are strong and probably could carry Hagrid. But I think a hippogriff is less likely, because it would've been more inclined to stick around, would've made more noise, and Harry would've been more likely to see it.

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CatherineHermiona - Sep 3, 2005 5:18 am (#102 of 137)

So now we have three solutions: Fawkes, thestrals and motorcycle. I think that's the closest we can get with information we have. Except if we don't see some other detail.

Kate

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Paulus Maximus - Sep 3, 2005 4:04 pm (#103 of 137)

The problem I have with the motorcycle is that motorcycles make noise... much more noise than Harry heard that night...

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haymoni - Sep 3, 2005 7:47 pm (#104 of 137)

Yes - none of the noises described match the Harley that I envision!

Unless he landed in the water.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 3, 2005 10:30 pm (#105 of 137)

If he landed in the water, you'd think he'd be sopping wet when he burst into the shack. And the birthday cake, too.

Not to mention, Harry heard crunching, not a loud splash.

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CatherineHermiona - Sep 4, 2005 2:41 am (#106 of 137)

Yes. Then only two solutions. Fawkes and thestral. I think it would be much easier to Fawkes to go back to Dumbledore after Hagrid came there. He can just disappear and that would explain some of that noises.

Kate

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Choices - Sep 16, 2005 5:02 pm (#107 of 137)

If the choices are Fawkes and Thestral, I vote for Thestral. With Fawkes, Hagrid would have held onto his tail to fly, but he would have sat on the Thestral. Hagrid tells Harry that he may have sat on the birthday cake at some point, so that is why I vote for Thestral.

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Saralinda Again - Sep 17, 2005 6:21 am (#108 of 137)

:: raising hand, casting vote for Thestral ::

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 20, 2005 11:41 am (#109 of 137)

Do we know Hagrid couldn't have flown on a broomstick? One could have been enlarged to fit him. He could have stashed it in his umbrella afterwards, along with his wand. Or maybe even one of the pockets in his giant coat (would've had to be shrunk first, but he's allowed to do magic for the purpose of completing his errand, so that's not impossible).

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Robert Dierken - Jan 12, 2006 7:37 pm (#110 of 137)

Hagrid had his umbrella, so a fourth option is that he did the Mary Poppins bit.

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CatherineHermiona - Jan 13, 2006 12:44 am (#111 of 137)

I didn't know that Marry Poppins was half a giant... I don't think Hagrid's umbrella can take him. But again, it may be magical umbrella. It is magical umbrella! Could be...

Kate

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Gina R Snape - Jan 13, 2006 1:10 pm (#112 of 137)

I see no reason why Hagrid couldn't fly on a broom and then using a shrinking charm to stick it in his pocket. A live animal seems more like what Hagrid would prefer, but less likely to have happened because then he'd have to get rid of the animal. A thestral might fly away afterwards, true. But why do that when he could just take Harry on the thestral across the water? Also, Hagrid might be too big to ride a thestral, or a hippogriff for that matter.

Frankly, I wonder if JKR even put much thought into this.

Oh, a for the motorcycle, there's no reason why it would make any noise at all if it's run by magic and not engine power,

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haymoni - Jan 13, 2006 1:27 pm (#113 of 137)

I know we hear the motorcycle in the movie. I'll have to check PS/SS to see if Dumbledore or Minerva react to the sound.

Didn't Hagrid say that he rides the thestrals?

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Choices - Jan 13, 2006 5:50 pm (#114 of 137)

Hagrid makes a comment somewhere about being too big to ride on a broom - can't remember where though. Maybe someone can find it - it may have been when he was telling the kids about his trip to see the Giants.

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me and my shadow 813 - Jan 14, 2006 9:09 pm (#115 of 137)

I'm confused. At the beginning of this thread, post #5, it says the shack was moved to G's Hollow... where is there evidence of this? Or is it speculation...

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CatherineHermiona - Jan 15, 2006 5:46 am (#116 of 137)

I think that Ms Amanda just said that shack was supposed to be place where Potters would hide. And then she said that the house in which Potters were hiding on the end wasn't on the rock but in Godric's Hollow. I guess that was what she was thinking, that place for hiding was removed... Hope you get me.

Haymoni, I think there was something like looking in the sky because of loud noise...

I just read 4th message on this thread... Doesn't matter now. This thread is the most successful thread of mine...

I'm still in the chat room. Kate

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Wand Maker - Jan 15, 2006 7:29 am (#117 of 137)

Choices -- Hagrid makes a comment somewhere about being too big to ride on a broom - can't remember where though. Maybe someone can find it - it may have been when he was telling the kids about his trip to see the Giants.

Hagrid mentions this when he is being questioned about his injury by Umbridge just after he got back to Hogwarts.

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Choices - Jan 15, 2006 9:00 am (#118 of 137)

Thanks Wand Maker - I thought I remembered that comment had some connection to Hagrid's trip to see the Giants.

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Honour - Jan 25, 2006 4:49 am (#119 of 137)

..."A low rumbling sound had broken the silence around them. It grew steadily louder as they looked up and down the street for some sign of a headlight; it swelled to a roar as they both looked up at the sky - and a huge motorbike fell out of the air and landed on the road in front of them ... PS

Hope this helps guys Smile

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Soul Search - Jan 27, 2006 1:41 pm (#120 of 137)

Why did Vernon bring a gun to the shack?

Did he plan to shoot delivery owls?

For that matter, why did Vernon think the shack on the rock would deter delivery by owls? They fly.

Neither the shack nor the gun make make a lot of sense, unless Vernon thought he might have to drive off a person coming to give Harry his letter. Which, of course, is what happened, although the gun wasn't much of a deterrent for Hagrid.

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Choices - Jan 27, 2006 1:50 pm (#121 of 137)

I think Vernon just thought (erroneously) that they could "hide" from the owls. Since the shack was out in the ocean, I believe the gun was simply to protect his family from intruders.

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Esther Rose - Jan 27, 2006 2:03 pm (#122 of 137)

I just assume that Uncle Vernon was not all that bright.

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Soul Search - Jan 27, 2006 2:34 pm (#123 of 137)

How about this?

Lily was muggle-born. We have learned, from a JKR interview, that a witch or wizard visits muggle-borns that get a Hogwarts letter.

Petunia knows this, she was there. She has told Vernon that someone will be coming to tell Harry ... everything.

That is why Vernon goes to the shack and takes a gun.

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Mrs. Sirius - Jan 27, 2006 9:50 pm (#124 of 137)

Vernon isn't very bright. He also thinks himself and his ways superior. Wizards to him are inferior and in his mind, would be frightened away by his his impressive muggle status and superiority. In Vernon's mind, once he shows them a gun they would be frightened away.

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Gina R Snape - Jan 31, 2006 9:44 am (#125 of 137)

Vernon wasn't acting rationally. He was crazed, and reacting out of fear. I might add, having a shotgun like that is illegal in the UK and as such this was truly an EXTREME measure.

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Madam Pince - Feb 26, 2006 7:30 am (#126 of 137)

Really? Owning a shotgun is illegal in the UK? There go all my mental images (born of Agatha Christie) of the gentry or the royal family spending an afternoon shooting skeet in the fields surrounding their castles...

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Snuffles - Feb 27, 2006 1:41 am (#127 of 137)

Well, it’s illegal if you don't have a license for them.

You can go and buy a shotgun but you are expected to fill out all the relevant documents!

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frogface - Feb 27, 2006 2:24 am (#128 of 137)

Owning a gun isn't a common in the UK as I understand it to be in the US. It's actually very rare for anyone to have a gun over here.

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haymoni - Feb 27, 2006 6:52 am (#129 of 137)

Other than hunting rifles and BB guns, I really don't know anybody that owns a gun.

The movies make it seem like every American is packing heat!!!

The things scare me half to death.

I think the shotgun bit really shows that Vernon has no clue about the Wizarding World. Just like his "old one, two" comment about the Dementors.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Feb 27, 2006 8:40 am (#130 of 137)

One of the questions I have always had about that scene is where did Vernon get the shotgun from because, I would assume that there are only a select few that may legally possess and sell shotguns and fewer still that may possess other arms apart from the military, Special Branch, and the intelligence services.

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K Stahl - Feb 27, 2006 7:50 pm (#131 of 137)

In 1988 exempt shotguns were redefined to, in effect, include shotguns with barrels greater in length than 24 inches and not having a magazine to feed shells. It appears that a single shot or double- barrel shotgun would be exempt from requiring a certificate. Additional laws (prior to 1992) do not appear to change this definition.

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Madam Pince - Mar 1, 2006 4:12 pm (#132 of 137)

OK, so that sounds pretty similar to the way it is in the U.S. then. I'm not an expert, but I think that legally, you have to fill out all the paperwork and applications and so forth before you can buy guns, but certain types of guns require more paperwork than others. For example, an antique black-powder shotgun would not require as much "clearance" as an AK-47 or something.

Plus there's such a thing as a "waiting period" here in the U.S. if you're buying certain types of weapons. The waiting period allows time for the buyer's paperwork to be checked over and compared to any possible criminal records, etc. I don't know if the U.K. has something similar. Uncle Vernon seemed to have obtained his gun pretty quickly - I wasn't sure if he was supposed to have bought it from the man who rented them the boat and the shack or not. Plus we don't know exactly what kind of gun it was other than a rifle.

Anyway, I agree with haymoni that it served the purpose of just showing that Uncle Vernon hasn't got a clue. He seems like the type of person who would like to think of himself as being the "alpha-male protector" of his family, so he would think that it would be an appropriate thing to do to run out and buy a gun, but he really has no idea about how to protect himself against the wizarding world.

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Lina - Mar 5, 2006 2:30 pm (#133 of 137)

Maybe he just planned to shoot owls while they were flying towards the rock...

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Miss Amanda - Jul 2, 2006 5:05 pm (#134 of 137)

On post 115, me and my shadow 813 was confused about a long ago post I made (post 5). I stated that the shack way out to sea was supposed to have been where the Potters were hiding.

I am referring to a bit of info given to us by JKR. BEFORE the rewrite, BEFORE she published, in a very early draft, the shack way out to sea was the location of Harry's parents' deaths. Of course, we know that she rewrote the first chapter to have his parents hiding in Godric's Hollow.

But she didn't just dump the shack as a setting in the book.

To me, that suggests that either the shack is going to play a part in the ending of the series or that she just couldn't let go of a very cool setting.

I still vote for Hagrid riding the motorcycle to get to the island. He can't fly on his own, and he doesn't ride broomsticks. We know this from Quidditch through the ages and Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, respectively. We've never seen him ride a thestral, a phoenix, or a hippogriff. Of those, I suspect only a phoenix could lift his weight. At the time of PS/SS, Hagrid would not have been licensed to Apparate. The ONLY FLYING OBJECT we have ever seen Hagrid use is the motorcycle. And we know from Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban that he did not ever return the motorcycle to Sirius.

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Solitaire - Jul 2, 2006 6:35 pm (#135 of 137)

I think Jo used the shack perfectly. Uncle Vernon seemed to think he could escape the reach of the Wizarding World simply by moving out onto that desolate rock. He could stick his head in the metaphorical sand: If he didn't acknowledge whatever it was that threatened him, then it didn't exist ... right? It is a kind of parallel to his thoughts the night before Harry entered his life:

His last, comforting thought before he fell asleep was that even if the Potters were involved, there was no reason for them to come near him and Mrs. Dursley. The Potters knew very well what he and Petunia thought about them and their kind ... He couldn't see how he and Petunia could get mixed up in anything that might be going on -- he yawned and turned over -- it couldn't affect them ...
How very wrong he was.

Solitaire

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Finn BV - Jan 1, 2007 3:11 pm (#136 of 137)

There's an interesting new essay on the Lexicon about the possible whereabouts of this hut. Don't have the time to read the whole thing, but it's certainly narrows it down from very few details.

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painting sheila - Jan 4, 2007 7:39 pm (#137 of 137)

Holy Cow! Just read the essay and it is amazing! I am continually floored by you people and your attention to detail and your intelligence.

My hat is off to you -

She

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