Durmstrang

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Durmstrang

Post  Lady Arabella on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:10 am

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Lady Arabella
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Post  Lady Arabella on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:12 am

Durmstrang
Saud - Aug 29, 2004 3:00 pm Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 1:23 pm

In the GoF, we are introduced to two existing wizarding schools in Europe other than Hogwarts: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. Each school brings in a selected number of their delegates to Hogwarts for the Triwizard Tournament. We get introduced to their Headmasters and an iconic figure from their school. From Beauxbatons, Madame Maxime and Fleur Delacour. From Durmstrang, Headmaster Karkaroff and Viktor Krum.

In OotP, we get to know more about Beauxbatons as MM joins the Order and helps Hagrid, while we get to know that Fleur Delacour has joined the Wizarding Bank, Gringotts, to improve her English. Also Hermione has made a trip to France which most likely is its location.

We already know that Karkaroff was a former DE and not any more. But instead, he had fled away into hiding from the Dark Lord. Surely there is more to be revealed about his future.

JKR had mentioned earlier that we will also get to know more of VK. Probably about his relations with Hermione or perhaps more.

Finally, Durmstrang is a school known for its dark-arts, but after Karkaroff gone, is it the same and who is their new Headmaster? Another secret yet to be revealed is where exactly is Durmstrang located?

Just a few collections of questions of this school that interest me. You can add more of course and add as many strange predictions of its location or its importance and connection to the HBP as you like.

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shepherdess - Aug 29, 2004 3:47 pm (#1 of 109)

I would also like to know where Karkaroff has gone. What is he doing (besides hiding)? Has LV, or his supporters, caught up with Karkaroff, yet?

Since Victor Krum is on the Bulgarian quidditch team, and he went to Durmstrang, I guess the most logical assumption is that Durmstrang is in Bulgaria. But, of course, I don't know that for a fact.

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Choices - Aug 29, 2004 4:34 pm (#2 of 109)
Edited Aug 29, 2004 5:36 pm

Do we actually know that Madame Maxime joins the Order? I thought she just accompanied Hagrid, but I do not recall it actually saying in the book that she is a member of the Order.

We are told only (by Hermione) that Durmstrang must be in the far North where it is very cold because their uniforms include fur-lined capes.

It would only be supposition to try to pinpoint the location of Beauxbatons and Durmstrang since JKR has not told us for sure.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 29, 2004 5:43 pm (#3 of 109)

Do we know Slytherin didn't leave Hogwarts and start Durmstrang?

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Tomoé - Aug 29, 2004 8:21 pm (#4 of 109)

Krum said :” ve have grounds larger even than these - though in vinter, ve have very little daylight, so ve are not enjoying them.”

That sounds like very far north, further than Hogwarts, which rule out Bulgaria (that is as far as Italy north-wise). I think Russia is more likely. I worked with a Yugoslav woman once, and she told me she was able to understand any Slavic language at once because those languages are still very close and need only a few adaptations to switch from one to another. It therefore would be logical than all the Slavic language speakers may go to Durmstrang.

Since the school is smaller than Hogwarts, and serves a bigger area, I would said there's more concurrences around Durmstrang, or maybe they don't allow muggle-born or half-blood.

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Czarina II - Aug 29, 2004 10:29 pm (#5 of 109)

Only purebloods go to Durmstrang, Tomoé. I think Viktor says so in GoF. If Durmstrang serves all of Eastern Europe, however, it would make sense that (due to its small size) it would have greater restrictions on enrollment. There might very well be another school for Muggleborns and half-bloods, since those students would need different attention than purebloods. Perhaps once your family has been magical for X generations, you can be accepted to Durmstrang.

If most Slavic wizards go to Durmstrang, which language do you think they would teach in? I would guess Old Slavic or Slavonic, but then, wizards would be considered rather odd to Muggles if they spoke such outdated languages. Greek, maybe? Or perhaps their spells are corrupted versions of Slavic or Greek, just as Hogwarts uses corrupted Latin?

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 29, 2004 10:38 pm (#6 of 109)

Perhaps Durmstrang teaches in Russian. Many of the Slavic countries were either part of the Soviet Union or had Soviet puppet governments for many years. It also sounds like Durmstrang may be located in the former Soviet Union, where people would know Russian, even if their native language was, say, Estonian, Lithuanian, etc.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 30, 2004 12:44 am (#7 of 109)
Edited Aug 30, 2004 1:45 am

I always thought of Durmstrang near the Baltic Sea, somewhere around St Petersburg. I'm not sure how a communist country (as Russia was at the time of the story) or the whole Eastern Block would have coped with a magical world due to their philisophical world view. As to only Purebloods going to Durmstrang – it’s Malfoy who says it.

“Father actually considered sending me to Durmstrang rather than Hogwarts, you know. He knows the headmaster, you see. Well, you know his opinion of Dumbledore - the man's such a Mudblood-lover - and Durmstrang doesn't admit that sort of riff-raff.” GoF UK paperback edition pg. 147

As to Beauxbattons, I imagine it somewhere near the Loire Valley. Nice, hottish (hence their dislike of the cold), and very ornate.

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Tomoé - Aug 30, 2004 5:06 am (#8 of 109)
Edited Aug 30, 2004 6:12 am

Thanks Czarina and Phelim, for the confirmation only pure bloods are allowed.

I second Dragon's idea, the teaching should be in Russian, because Hogwarts teach in English, not in Old English or corrupted Latin. And Beauxbatons teach in French, not in Occitant, even if it sounds to be in the South of France.

About wizards and communism, they could have had a peaceful relation with Lenine, but not with Staline, I guess they just lived in secret for that period.

I'm not sure about St Petersburg, it's not much further north than Scotland, it wouldn't work with Krum's comment about how very little daylight they have in winter. He said that on a December 24th, so how long exactly Hogwarts winter days was very fresh to his memories. Plus, Karkarov told him to shut up before giving the position of the school. I would think it's around the Article Circle, not quite there yet, but very close, on the Eastern side of the Ural Mountains or within the Mountains themselves. Something around the 63º parallel.

Edit: I think they never had any relation with the comunism gouvernment, they saw what they did to people who had more powers and money that other, it was too dangerous to try to reason with those muggle who thought everybody should be equal. Since all Russian are not equal in magic, no need to let them know.

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 30, 2004 10:39 am (#9 of 109)

I wonder how Durmstrang managed to keep its students out of the government's sight. The Soviet Union, and communist countries in general (as I know from friends who grew up there) wouldn't allow any sort of private education. A child who was really too ill or infirm to attend school could be tutored at home, but it would have to be a state sponsored tutor. Everyone else had to go to a state run school, and there wouldn't necessarily be a change of schools at a certain age. If students suddenly disappeared just as they reached the age of joining the Young Pioneers, there would be questions.

In England, where parents can send their children to a fee paying school with no hassles, and boarding school is (or was) a cultural fixture, Muggle families with children at Hogwarts (or wizarding families who'd sent their children to Muggle primary schools) would be able to explain it away much more easily. I think that's probably the original reason why Durmstrang only takes purebloods. They couldn't take kids from Muggle families under communism without raising too many questions and putting themselves at risk. This in turn would create extreme insularity, with three or four generations learning (by implication if nothing else) that only purebloods could attend wizarding school and participate fully in the wizarding world. Add that to the snobbery that many purebloods have anyway, put people who think like the Malfoys in charge, and you get a much greater separation between the wizarding world and the Muggle world, especially in the area of education.

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Paulus Maximus - Aug 30, 2004 11:42 am (#10 of 109)

'I would think it's around the “Article Circle'

Pardon me for being a stickler for spelling and grammatical accuracy, but might you be referring to the Arctic Circle?

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Siriusly - Aug 30, 2004 11:52 am (#11 of 109)

The Article Circle: Would that be where literature and forum meet?

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 30, 2004 1:14 pm (#12 of 109)

The Article Circle: Would that be where literature and forum meet?

In a global sort of way...

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Catherine - Aug 30, 2004 3:13 pm (#13 of 109)
Edited Aug 30, 2004 4:15 pm

I think the Article Circle is a cute concept. I'm just starting the book Eats, Shoots, and Leaves, and I'm wondering if Lynn Truss included the Article Circle.

I also think that even though in private circles I am considered to be the "Comma Queen," we should tread gently when correcting our peers here on the Forum.

I think that correcting what is considered "canon" is fair game. I think that correcting grammar and punctuation here is a bit much. We have all made typos and other mistakes.

This may be considered "off-topic," and as such, I will accept any chiding or deletion that may follow. I bring this up this topic because I have read many posts in the chat thread about foreign wizards worrying about their grammar, and also that many English-speaking wizards worry about their correctness. We are all friends here, and effort counts. I would really hate for someone to refrain from posting because they are insecure about correction, or perfection.

Paulus, this was not aimed at you, but is rather a reassurance to everyone.

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Siriusly - Aug 30, 2004 3:17 pm (#14 of 109)

Pardon the pun.

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Czarina II - Aug 30, 2004 3:24 pm (#15 of 109)

Um, sorry to be serious again, but what does Durmstrang really have to do with Communism?

Durmstrang was founded around the same time as Hogwarts (approx. 1000 years ago). The Soviet Union didn't event last for one hundred years, let alone one thousand.

At the time of the founding of Durmstrang, extreme northern "Russia" (around Arkhangelsk and Murmansk) was isolated. It would have been a perfect place for wizards to build a school. Who is going to be wandering across it accidentally? There would only be a few Lapps and Finns in the vicinity. Vikings were exploring/trading/(raiding)/settling the regions around the Baltic and working their way southeast toward Byzantium. Quite naturally, some Viking wizards probably joined with some Slavic wizards that they met in the future Petrograd/Moscow region and they decided to build a school in the remote north where Muggles wouldn't bother them. Russians wouldn't become predominate in Eastern Europe for another few centuries -- in fact, they spent two hundred years under Mongol rule. Meanwhile, German-speaking people were pushing their way eastward.

While it is true that most Eastern European countries NOW speak Russian, that is mostly due to events of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Durmstrang was around long before that.

However, Russian might very well be the predominant language at Durmstrang if most of the students are from there. I also think that the USSR would be one of the decisive reasons why the school is Unplottable and they only accept pureblood wizards. Still, if mere Muggles could outwit the KGB, I think wizards could!

Pardon the long rant -- history is my strong suit.

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Catherine - Aug 30, 2004 3:37 pm (#16 of 109)

Pardon the pun. –Siriusly

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, but some issues in the chat thread made me worry that folks might be worried about correction.

If I spoke out of turn, I beg the pardon of everyone who read the preceding posts, and ask that you return to business immediately! Forget that I posted anything.

So...about Durmstrang....

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Saud - Aug 30, 2004 3:46 pm (#17 of 109)

Here's what VK was explaining to Hermione in the Yule ball only to be interrupted by Karkaroff.

“vell, ve have a castle also, not as big as this, nor as comfortable, I am thinking, Ve have just four floors, and the fires are lit only for magical purposes. But ve have grounds larger even than these - though in vinter, ve have very little daylight, so ve are not enjoying them. But in summer ve are flying every day, over the lakes and the mountains-“

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 30, 2004 3:53 pm (#18 of 109)

Durmstrang was founded around the same time as Hogwarts (approx. 1000 years ago).

Where in canon did you find this? I must have missed it.

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schoff - Aug 30, 2004 4:10 pm (#19 of 109)

GoF 12 US187:

“The Triwizard Tournament was first established some seven hundred years ago as a friendly competition between the three largest European schools of wizardry: Hogwarts, Beauxbatons, and Durmstrang.”

One could assume that Durmstrang was in existence for at least a little while before the Tournament was created. It may have taken even more time in order to make it one of the largest schools.

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 30, 2004 7:37 pm (#20 of 109)

Czarina, you and I have mostly the same ideas (see post #9). Durmstrang wouldn't directly have anything to do with communism, but would have been affected by it. For one thing, like I already mentioned, they couldn't have taken students who'd already been in Muggle schools without raising some questions, because communism wouldn't allow private education.

Of course, if Durmstrang is in the neighborhood of a thousand years old, and, as you say, it was many more centuries before Russian became predominant in that area, the language of Durmstrang may not be Russian at all. German, perhaps? Or maybe they teach lots of languages, so students speak Russian, German, and their own language if different. Not to mention English.

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Czarina II - Aug 30, 2004 7:53 pm (#21 of 109)

Thank-you, schoff. That was the reference I was thinking of. (Even seven hundred years would put the founding of the school at around 1200-1300.) Durmstrang's name, however, is rather Germanic, which is why I thought of the Vikings.

Sorry, I really find Durmstrang intriguing. Pity it won't be featured more in the series. I didn't mean to offend anyone with my previous comments.

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schoff - Aug 30, 2004 8:04 pm (#22 of 109)

What about Teutonic? I don't know much about it, but since the Germanic languages all derive from it, maybe it has something to do with Durmstrang?

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nmnjr - Aug 31, 2004 3:18 am (#23 of 109)

Beauxbatons translates directly from French into "beautiful wands." Does Durmstrang translate into something as easily?

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Chris. - Aug 31, 2004 5:08 am (#24 of 109)
Edited Aug 31, 2004 6:11 am

I thought Beauxbatons was "beautiful sticks", sticks being like wands.

Durmstrang is a play on the German phrase Sturm and Drang ('storm and stress'), That term describes a type of literature devoted to grandeur, spectacle, and rebellion. It was an important trend in German literature in the nineteenth century. The foremost writer of that movement was Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, whom Zhigulii mentioned above, whose most famous work, Faust, details a man's pact with the Devil- like the pact Karkaroff made with Voldemort.

Richard Wagner, another writer of the movement, wrote "The Flying Dutchman", which was a story about a ship that was doomed to roam the oceans endlessly because its captain had angrily renounced God during a storm. The ship being the Durmstrang ship and the captain being Karkaroff, who renounced Voldemort after the DL was stripped of his powers.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 31, 2004 7:17 am (#25 of 109)

I can't find anything for Durm, but strang is the german word for cord, rope, strand or skein. I'm not sure if that has any significance.

But where does "fact" that Durmstrang is a play on the German Sturm and Drang come from?

But the issue of Durmstrang and communism is - how would Durmstrang have operated under a government such as that of the Soviet Union?

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T Brightwater - Aug 31, 2004 8:04 am (#26 of 109)

Probably the same way Hogwarts does under the British government - by staying out of sight. The former USSR is enormous, even by US standards; I wouldn't think it would be too difficult to find a place to hide a wizard school there.

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Chris. - Aug 31, 2004 9:21 am (#27 of 109)

T Brightwater, the British government does know about the Wizarding World, well at least the Prime Minister. But that was an extreme situation, seeing as the "dangerous" Sirius Black had escaped. I do agree with you about Durmstrang being undifficult to keep a secret.

Here's a question: was Durmstrang a teacher of the Dark Arts before or after Karkaroff became Headmaster?

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Phelim Mcintyre - Aug 31, 2004 10:17 am (#28 of 109)

Prongs, check out "Fabulous Beasts and Where to Find Them". In it, there is a section about the Department of Misinformation/Muggle-Worthy Excuses and how it works with the government to convince Muggles that the Loch Ness Monster is a hoax. Therefore the UK Government and Ministry of Magic have a reasonable amount of contact. How the Russian, Tibetan and Cuban ministries of magic work/have worked with the respective governments is another matter.

But I think Durmstrang has the reputation for the Drak Arts from before Karakoff's time, or why appoint him?

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 31, 2004 1:55 pm (#29 of 109)

...the UK Government and Ministry of Magic have a reasonable amount of contact

Hmmm.... sounds like some well-placed people in the British government may be Muggle-born Hogwarts graduates, or else Muggle relatives of wizards/witches. If that's true of other countries as well (NOW we know why there's a government conspiracy to conceal Bigfoot, Elvis, and the aliens!), that would explain why wizarding nations tend to parallel Muggle ones.

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Leila 2X4B - Aug 31, 2004 5:28 pm (#30 of 109)
Edited Aug 31, 2004 6:29 pm

If the storm and stress idea is accurate, there is another interesting fact that can accompany the idea. Storm and Stress was an early 1900's psychologist's (Hall, I believe) way of describing adolescents' moods (and mood swings).

Leila

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Madame Librarian - Aug 31, 2004 7:09 pm (#31 of 109)

I had gotten the pun on Durmstrang's name right when I read the book the first time. And, all the literary references to that German school of thought are what I had learned, too. But Sleeping Beauty reminded me of one association I had forgotten--the term sturm and drang was picked up by the psychologists around the time that Freud was becoming popular. It was used to describe anyone going through a messy, difficult time, but particularly young men trying to find their place in the world, wanting the change the world, wanting to make their lives mean something.

Ciao. Barb

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Czarina II - Aug 31, 2004 7:10 pm (#32 of 109)
Edited by Aug 31, 2004 8:20 pm

But the issue of Durmstrang and communism is - how would Durmstrang have opperated under a government such as that of the Soviet Union? – Phelim

VERY SECRETLY. Helped along by the following:

- It's Unplottable, so not even spy satellites can find it.

- It only accepts pureblood wizards (according to Draco), so there is very little interference with Muggles at all.

- Wizards are good at making up reasonable excuses. This works with any government.

- Wizards appear to have their own governments, hospitals, shops, schools, etc., around the world. It seems reasonable that they had their own towns (like Hogsmeade). A simple Unplottable charm would render them invisible to Muggles.

- Presuming there are ways of keeping track of Muggleborns (even if they don't attend Durmstrang), strange happenings around them could be covered up by wizards trained in secrecy. If there are other schools or if Durmstrang accepts "certain" Muggleborns/half-bloods, then perhaps there were a few magical bureaucrats SOMEWHERE in the vast networks of the Communist Party and the KGB who kept things quiet. (After all, Communist governments aren't simply made up of some diabolical leader holed up in a dark closet pushing buttons.)

schoff -- Teutonic and Germanic are synonyms, I believe.

However, why would Slavic wizards bother with German? Vikings adopted most of the customs of the Slavs as well as their language (since the latter were the majority and genetic consequence). Otherwise, there has been a great animosity between Germanic/Teutonic and Slavic for the past several centuries. Bulgarians (Krum) certainly did not learn German. The only other Durmstrang people we know of are Karkaroff and Polyakov -- very Slavic-sounding. And we can't forget Antonin Dolohov. If such people are the majority at Durmstrang...

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Tomoé - Aug 31, 2004 8:41 pm (#33 of 109)
Edited Aug 31, 2004 9:44 pm

I see no reason for Durmstrang to teach in more than one language, that would be a never ending pain in the neck. In fact, I never heard of any school that teach in more than one language outside of the foreign language lessons (but I have been wrong before and will in future too, I have no doubt ^_~). I would guess that Russian is the language they use as Muggles around use Russian. I would also guess Draco would have to learn Russian to enter Durmstrang.

I confirm Beauxbatons means "beautiful sticks", but a bâton is not a wand, it's thicker and longer. A baguette is the right word for wand, but since that word is strongly associated with food, than would make readers think : Bellesbaguettes? Are they wizards or chefs?

As for the Article Circle affair, no need to apology Paulus, Siriusly and TBEyes, in Quebec we say : If you aren’t worth a little laugh, you aren’t worth much. ^_^ I didn't make that mistake for more than a decade though, maybe I should do more geography, I'm getting lousy in that matter.

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Czarina II - Sep 1, 2004 10:06 pm (#34 of 109)

Tomoé -- at my old school we were taught in both English and French. The program was optional, though, and emphasized English towards the end of high school. I also know some European countries (Switzerland comes immediately to mind) teach in at least two languages in addition to the regular language classes.

I suppose JKR didn't flesh out Durmstrang very much. She probably didn't think of such questions as "What language do they teach in?" or "Where do the students come from?" and such. I guess that is up to us to speculate. (But why have a Bulgarian go to a school in northern Russia? Why not a Russian? The final game could have been Ireland vs. Russia. Was that a poetic geographical error? No offense to JKR, of course. It is perfectly acceptable.)

That said, I think there is probably a translating spell of some sort -- at least for textbooks. I don't think Lucius would have considered sending his son to a school where he would be severely linguistically handicapped, Dark Arts or no Dark Arts. He wants his son to do well, as evidenced by his displeasure in CoS. I guess I could just answer my own question by assuming that all the Durmstrang students can translate their own textbooks. Then they would only have to learn Functional Russian to get by.

[Oh, and Tomoé -- you ARE from Quebec. Yay! I guessed right!]

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Phelim Mcintyre - Sep 2, 2004 9:33 am (#35 of 109)

May be JKR worked out how Durmstrang operates but didn't bother to tell us. Roll on the book for charity, which I hope contains this information as well as the history of the Death Eaters.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 2, 2004 11:34 am (#36 of 109)

In Eastern Europe, political boundaries seem to change at least once every generation. As a result, any long-standing wizarding school in that area would have to be independent of any Muggle country, or a conglomeration of several countries. Unlike in Britain, which, not counting its overseas territories/colonies, has been the same unified country for several hundred years. Given that, I see no reason why a Bulgarian wouldn't go to school in Russia, or in one of the other countries that was part of the Soviet Union.

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Czarina II - Sep 3, 2004 12:01 am (#37 of 109)

Bulgaria wasn't part of the Soviet Union, just affiliated with it. But Bulgaria is in southeastern Europe (on the Black Sea, north of Greece), while Russia is significantly further north. Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, and Belarus are between the two. While it is perfectly reasonable for Bulgarian wizards to go to northern Russia for school, it just seems odd.

For comparison, if JKR had made Krum a Canadian going to school in Mexico, it would be rather strange, or even vice versa would be peculiar. It just seems like an extra thing to tie in when there's no need to do so.

(Phelim -- you're probably right! At least, I hope so.)

One must be careful when discussing Russia to automatically jump to the Soviet Union. They are not quite the same thing. It is a bit like discussing France in the same breath as the European Union when applied to history.

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T Brightwater - Sep 3, 2004 6:05 am (#38 of 109)

If Draco could have gone to Durmstrang, I don't see any problem with Viktor being there.

Beauxbatons, Durmstrang, and Hogwarts are the three largest wizard schools in Europe, but we don't know that they're the only ones; maybe there's one in Bulgaria, or somewhere close by, but his parents thought he'd get a better education at Durmstrang.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 3, 2004 1:33 pm (#39 of 109)
Edited Sep 3, 2004 2:34 pm

Even if Bulgaria was never part of the USSR, its boundaries have changed many times over the centuries. It was part of the Ottoman Empire from 1396 to 1878, and ruled by a German dynasty from 1878 to 1908. During that period, Bulgarian was the peasant language, while the nobles spoke German. So, if Krum is of noble descent, his family is likely German-speaking. Much of northeastern Europe has a history of German being the language of the nobility. Durmstrang may parallel the Muggle world in this: we've seen that British pureblood families see themselves as nobility, and have many of the trappings of it. Durmstrang only accepts pureblood students. Therefore, Durmstrang only accepts the nobility, which, in northeastern Europe, may well be German-speaking, and could include someone descended from the same German-speaking nobility, even if he comes from much farther south.

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Siriusly - Sep 3, 2004 6:06 pm (#40 of 109)
Edited Sep 3, 2004 7:07 pm

But... "Victor Krum was over in a corner, conversing with his dark-haired mother and father in rapid Bulgarian". Not German I'm afraid. Looks like Victor is a peasant.

Maybe he's a ringer for the Quidditch Team.

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T Brightwater - Sep 3, 2004 6:53 pm (#41 of 109)

A few possibilities:

A) Bulgaria doesn't have its own wizard school and there isn't one closer than Durmstrang.

B) For whatever reason, Krum's parents wanted to send him to Durmstrang instead of somewhere closer. Perhaps Durmstrang had a better Quidditch program. :-)

C) Durmstrang gets all the Eastern European students (or at least the pureblooded ones) by default, just as Hogwarts gets the students from the British Isles.

D) Viktor has a special interest in the Dark Arts and therefore chose to go there. (I consider this the least likely; Hermione's got pretty good judgment, except for Lockhart. Everybody's allowed one mistake :-))

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 3, 2004 8:27 pm (#42 of 109)

Also, modern Bulgarians probably speak Bulgarian, no matter what their ancestors spoke. Krum's great-grandparents may have spoken German; that doesn't mean his family today isn't more fluent in Bulgarian. When I suggested that his family was German-speaking, I was thinking more of their background. By that logic, I guess I should say that I come from a German-speaking family, because my great-great-grandparents spoke it--but, because they emigrated, all of their descendants speak English. I still think Krum's family may have long-standing ties to Durmstrang. Perhaps his grandparents or great-grandparents, etc., came from farther north.

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Siriusly - Sep 4, 2004 5:27 am (#43 of 109)

Good Point Maddest,

I keep forgetting to move the story to the present.

Thanks

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Chris. - Sep 5, 2004 5:19 am (#44 of 109)

Durmstrang could well have been founded by German-speaking wizards about the same time Hogwarts was founded, but now, thanks to Muggle politics, is dominated to such an extent by Slavic-speakers that the language itself has changed. Hogwarts might have had similar problems far in the past, since it was apparently founded before 1066; when you've got students who speak Gaelic, Anglo-Saxon dialects, Norse and Norman French all in one school, you've got to pick out one language and stick with it, however, in those days, the "norm" would certainly have been Latin, as it was in monastic schools.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 12:24 pm (#45 of 109)
Edited Sep 5, 2004 1:43 pm

I agree, Prongs--I think that's the most likely explanation for Durmstrang's language. And here's who I think Viktor Krum is: a descendent of German-speaking nobles who came from northern Europe, closer to Durmstrang, and acquired an estate in Bulgaria during the late nineteenth century, which has been in the family ever since. Since wizarding places are kept out of the Muggles' sight, they could've easily held onto it all through communism. And because his family originally came from somewhere near Durmstrang, and they're pureblooded, they've been sending their children there for generations.

And the fact that Britain's unifying language was Latin when Hogwarts was founded is probably the reason why all the spells are in a corrupted Latin. Durmstrang students probably learn spells in a corrupted medieval German.

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Czarina II - Sep 9, 2004 7:03 pm (#46 of 109)

While I like your explanation Maddest Dragon (it also makes perfect sense), you're forgetting one minor detail: before there were German nobles in "Bulgaria", there were Greek and Slavic nobles. So there is the fine possibility that Krum is descended from them. Germans didn't really move into Eastern Europe until the 1400s or 1500s to counter the Mongols, among other reasons.

Germans were also fond of Latin, particularly those who wanted to be "noble". I'd assume that they would use a different corrupted Latin than at Hogwarts. However, if Durmstrang (maybe it underwent a name change like just about everywhere else in that part of the world) was founded around the same time as Hogwarts, their spells would probably be a mix of corrupted Greek and corrupted Latin.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 9, 2004 9:22 pm (#47 of 109)

Thanks for the info, Czarina. I think Krum is descended from nobles, whether Greek, Slavic, or German. I got the idea of German nobles to explain why he'd go to school so far away... if his family came from closer to Durmstrang, and not that long ago (though they may have been Slavic rather than German), that would explain why they sent him there.

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Czarina II - Sep 10, 2004 6:39 am (#48 of 109)

That makes good sense, Maddest Dragon.

I have a question: Ron seems to pronounce "Krum" like "crumb", as in a bit of food. Do most people pronounce it that way?

I guess because I learned that he was Bulgarian, I always pronounce his name "Kroom".

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Saud - Sep 11, 2004 10:26 pm (#49 of 109)

same here. Kroom he is. Although Hermione was the toughest for me to guess how to pronounce her name.

Where is Karkaroff?

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Czarina II - Sep 15, 2004 6:56 am (#50 of 109)

Where is Karkaroff?

Likely dead, but that's just my personal opinion.

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haymoni - Sep 15, 2004 10:16 am (#51 of 109)

I just don't think Voldy has the headcount yet to hunt Karkaroff down.

He needed to send someone off to the Giants, but I don't think he can bother with Karkaroff just now.

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Czarina II - Sep 19, 2004 9:47 am (#52 of 109)

I was more thinking that Karkaroff had done away with himself, rather than face Azkaban or (worse) Voldemort's wrath. Sorry, I know that's not exactly a family topic, so I'll leave it at that. Though perhaps he just Transfigured himself into a harmless, cowardly, stray dog or such.

A question that arose on the shipping thread: Were the only students that Karkaroff brought to the Triwizard Tournament in GoF boys?

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azi - Sep 19, 2004 11:26 am (#53 of 109)

Although it's possible Karkaroff may be dead, I also think he may just be hiding out at Durmstrang carrying on as the headteacher. The castle is unplottable and I assume protected by many other enchantments like at Hogwarts. Therefore Karkaroff would be safe there. He could also have simply made himself unplottable to go into hiding, although I think Voldie could easily trace him.

Czarina II - yes, Karkaroff did bring girls to the TT.

GoF, UK version, page 227 - 'Out of the corner of his eye, Harry say comprehension dawn on a few of their faces. The boy with food all down his front nudged the girl next to him and pointed openly at Harry's forehead.'

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Czarina II - Sep 20, 2004 8:03 am (#54 of 109)

Thanks for the help, azi!

Hmm, "the" girl, not "a" girl. Perhaps there was only one -- two or three at the most, since Harry didn't say "the only" girl, not that he'd especially notice.

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Tomoé - Sep 21, 2004 6:49 pm (#55 of 109)

Maybe she was "the only girl around him", but it does sound like there was a majority of boys from Durmstrang.

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Czarina II - Oct 2, 2004 11:08 am (#56 of 109)

It does indeed seem like Karkaroff mostly brought boy students from Durmstrang.

Do you suppose Durmstrang has Houses like Hogwarts?

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azi - Oct 2, 2004 12:07 pm (#57 of 109)

I don't think they'll have houses. It is a smaller school after all so maybe they don't need houses to keep the students under check. A place with only 4 floors (if my memory serves me correctly) probably wouldn't have the space for separate houses and probably not a history like Hogwarts either. Hogwarts had 4 founders, hence 4 houses, while it's likely Durmstrang had only one founder.

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Czarina II - Oct 15, 2004 2:51 pm (#58 of 109)

I suppose they might have teams for something. Otherwise, how would they play Quidditch?

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azi - Oct 16, 2004 10:10 am (#59 of 109)

Maybe they have year group teams? Not very fair, but possible. Quidditch could just be a random event rather than set games, with a group of friends getting together to play against each other. I don't think the playing of quidditch was ever mentioned at Durmstrang - we just assume it happened because Krum attended there and he must have been able to train. Depending on where Durmstrang is, quidditch may not be very popular in that part of the world. Although I suppose with Karkaroff as headmaster there he may have made quidditch a part of school life...I don't know, I just have ideas. Smile

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Saud - Nov 1, 2004 3:38 am (#60 of 109) Reply
Edited by Nov 1, 2004 3:39 am<P>

Draco attending Durmstrang...as in the chapter title 'Draco's Detour'...??? (in reference to the new clue)

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Czarina II - Nov 8, 2004 7:38 pm (#61 of 109)

How would that work, though? Draco is only onscreen when he interacts with Harry. Interesting thought...

If Karkaroff is in hiding (or dead), who is headmaster of Durmstrang now? I suppose Durmstrang isn't a bad place to hide in. But then, how to interact with the students? Or parents?

Was Karkaroff mentioned at all in OoP?

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Annika - Nov 9, 2004 1:13 pm (#62 of 109)

I mentioned in the Mirror thread that if Narcissa inherits 12GP, then Sirius's mirror (the counterpart which he gave to Harry) would be amongst his possessions. If Draco came across the mirror, Harry's presence would not be necessary during "Draco's Detour." He could see the events through the mirror. (A stretch, I know.)

Annika

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Czarina II - Nov 29, 2004 7:24 pm (#63 of 109)

I know Viktor Krum has left Durmstrang now (well, we assume, since he was in his last year in GoF), but JKR said that he was going to resurface again. Do you suppose Karkaroff and Durmstrang (the concept, not likely the school itself) will also make another appearance?

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Saud - Dec 1, 2004 12:23 am (#64 of 109)

YES!

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Czarina II - Dec 1, 2004 8:52 am (#65 of 109)

Apparently, according to Mugglenet, Durmstrang will be an all-boys school for MovieGoF. Likewise, Beauxbatons will be an all-girls school.

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hells456 - Dec 1, 2004 9:11 am (#66 of 109)

A note on houses, most English (not sure about rest of Europe) schools have houses. These are for inter-house teams and competitions. My schools also used them to separate classes in junior school (before it becomes necessary to split them for academic streaming). It seems quite possible that Durmstrang is split into houses even though there aren't that many students.

I have a question, do we actually know they only take purebloods? I know they don't have muggleborns, but I wasn't sure about halfbloods.

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Woods Dom - Dec 2, 2004 7:20 am (#67 of 109)

Does anyone know where I can get a reference to Durmstrang's coat of arms?

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Tomoé - Dec 2, 2004 5:18 pm (#68 of 109)

Likely in Jo's notebook and maybe only there. It they may be showed in the fourth movie somewhere.

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Czarina II - Dec 29, 2004 10:57 pm (#69 of 109)

We don't actually know for sure (do we? I don't) that Durmstrang only takes purebloods. What we do know is that what Draco Malfoy believes, so it is likely that if halfbloods or muggleborns go there, they keep a low profile. Of course, we have no idea if wizards in Durmstrang's part of the world use the same system for ranking purity. It would seem that Karkaroff does.

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Solitaire - Jan 12, 2005 12:46 am (#70 of 109)

I posted yesterday on the Hogwarts founders thread a possible site for Durmstrang. Might it have been established somewhere in what was once the Prussian Empire, up in the Baltic area? While Prussia no longer exists as a country, the people and cultures that were once a part of it do exist.

Near the front of this thread, I've seen mention of the Teutonic heritage in this area. This seems to connect with Prussia. If the school had been established somewhere in the area once encompassed by what was known as Prussia, it might have pulled students from Poland and other Slavic countries, the Scandinavian countries, Russia--at least part of which are located in Europe. It could also have been located pretty far north.

I feel Durmstrang is located near an ocean, because of their method of travel--the ship sailed under water. Also, the name must be a deliberate play on Sturm und Drang. If the school were established in the Prussian empire, that would account for a German-sounding name on a school that is is no longer in a German state. I also was intrigued by the similarity of the name Waldemar (of Denmark) to Voldemort.

Anyway, I think Durmstrang could be hidden somewhere in the far north of what was once old Prussia. Just a thought ... I hope it makes sense. I'm kind of sleepy, but I was in posting withdrawal earlier, due to having been locked out for several hours! It was so distressing!

Solitaire

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Elanor - Jan 12, 2005 7:03 am (#71 of 109)

Great post Solitaire! Your idea of locating Durmstrang by the seaside because of their method of travel is really great.

Now, if we add those clues: the importance of boats + a foundation during the Middle-Ages + a probable location in Northern Europe since nights are very long in winter, then what comes to my mind is the Teutonic Hanse, the union of towns of Northern Europe, founded in the 12th century but which reached its peak in the 13th-15th centuries. From there, merchant ships were bringing products in all Europe, especially beer, cloth, smoked herring and fur (Durmstang students wear fur BTW).

The Sturm und Drand movement is very interesting too for the meaning of the name because it was a rather nationalist movement and that could fit very well with the fact that they want their students to be "pure-blood".

BTW, it could also be a clue that Sturm, the storm, will come from there in the next books...

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Tomoé - Jan 12, 2005 8:43 am (#72 of 109)

Prussia is still too far south, but Jo said she rubbish with geography ...

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Czarina II - Jan 12, 2005 6:08 pm (#73 of 109) Reply
Edited by Jan 12, 2005 6:10 pm<P>

There is a new article on Mugglenet that raises a theory that pinpoints the locations of Azkaban and Durmstrang to Norway (the Barents Sea in particular). I would suggest the Kola Peninsula near Murmansk instead for Durmstrang. The editorial is definitely worth a read.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Solitaire - Jan 12, 2005 10:03 pm (#74 of 109)

Czarina ... I've also thought Norway or Finland could be possibilities. Leningrad, Helsinki, Oslo, Stockholm ... all are about as far north as Anchorage, Alaska. I have friends and cousins who have lived in AK for years, and they say that in winter there are times when they have only 4-5 hours of daylight. The sun often does not rise until 8:30 or so, and it may set as early as 2:30 p.m. In Fairbanks, AK, there are often only about 3 hours of daylight.

I found the following information about Murmansk: “But in Murmansk, Russia, the sun will not rise at all on the day of the solstice. In fact, people there last saw the sun on December third. And they will not see it again until January seventh.”

It sounds like that far north at least a month passes with no daylight at all. Perhaps Durmstrang is located somewhere between Leningrad and Murmansk as far as latitude.

Solitaire

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2005 11:41 am (#75 of 109)

A little while ago, I posted something on the Founders thread. I then decided to move the idea over here. I had not read the very beginning of this thread, so I quickly skimmed the first several posts. I saw that TBE had raised the same point, but I didn't see a response.

Does anyone know who founded Durmstrang? Since it is presumed to have been founded sometime in the general time frame of Hogwarts, is it possible that Salazar Slytherin founded Durmstrang?? We know he left Hogwarts over a major ideological difference--the teaching of magic to non pure-blood Wizards and Witches. We do not hear anything more of him following this, do we?

Does anyone think it is possible that he could have gone abroad and founded Durmstrang under another identity? We know that it admits only pure-blood Witches and Wizards to study magic, and it does teach the Dark Arts. It is possible that it has always taught the Dark Arts, although this would probably cast Slytherin in a considerably more sinister light than many of us have been used to think of him. However, it could be possible that the Dark Arts came to be taught much later, perhaps upon the rise of Grindelwald. But I digress ...

The ambiguity surrounding Durmstrang's precise whereabouts, the belief that it seems to have been founded sometime around the establishment of Hogwarts, and the fact that it caters to pure-bloods only seem like strong indicators that Slytherin might have had a hand in founding this school--either alone or with another wizard (or wizards) who believed as he did.

Does anyone else think this is a reasonable possibility?

Solitaire

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Nathan Zimmermann - Jan 15, 2005 1:29 pm (#76 of 109)

I have an idea: what if Drumstrang is located in the Gdansk (Danzig) corridor. Would this location fit with the possibilities for the location of Drumstrang? Gdansk's location is such that it lies on the Baltic Sea and that portion of Poland is bordered by Russia, Denmark, and Germany.

Solitaire, I think it is a possibility that Slytherin may have co-founded Drumstrang in the period after his departure from Hogwarts.

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Detail Seeker - Jan 15, 2005 1:59 pm (#77 of 109)

Nathan, Danzig is too far south to fit the description of the winter nights given at Durmstrang. Danzig is much further south than Scotland and thus Hogwarts. So the winter nights in Hogwarts would be longer than in Durmstrang. So, Karelia or better the Kola penninsula are much likelier.

If we dropped this hint, then the location would be much less defined.

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Tomoé - Jan 15, 2005 3:44 pm (#78 of 109)

If we dropped this hint, I'd say in Bulgaria, not far from the Black Sea.

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2005 4:29 pm (#79 of 109)

If Beauxbatons is located in southern Europe, it makes sense to have a school in northern Europe. At least part of Russia lies in Europe, which fits in with Dumbledore's comment about the Triwizard Tournament being between the three largest European schools. There is certainly plenty of Europe that lies north of 64 degrees latitude--and that is far enough north (in Fairbanks, Alaska) to allow less than four hours of daylight between mid-November and the end of January. I would assume the same rules apply in Europe.

While it is possible that Jo disregarded geographical laws with Durmstrang, I don't think we should assume it based solely on the fact that Viktor is Bulgarian. It seems to me that the location of Durmstrang is kept deliberately vague on purpose, so that no one can figure out exactly where it is located. I believe that keeping Durmstrang hidden from all but the pure-bloods who teach and attend there fits in with the whole ideology of Slytherin and those who believe as he did.

Solitaire

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Tomoé - Jan 15, 2005 5:39 pm (#80 of 109)

I remember I read somwhere in GoF Karkaroff was talking with Krum in Bulgarian, can't remember where exactly though. So if we say Jo is bad with Geography and didn't realise Bulgaria is further south than Venice, I'll vote for somewhere in Bulgaria. If we say the indication about the short days are right, I'd say somewhere in Russia, further East from the Ural mountains.

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Solitaire - Jan 15, 2005 8:15 pm (#81 of 109)

Karkaroff and Krum apparently both spoke English, as well. It is possible that Karkaroff--if he was Headmaster--would have spoken every language represented in his school.

Solitaire

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Tomoé - Jan 17, 2005 3:07 am (#82 of 109)

Both interpretations are possible, if we drop the short winter days hint, any East European country become a possibility, the only way is to ask Jo about the location of the school.

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Catherine - Jan 17, 2005 6:25 am (#83 of 109)

I think Durmstrang is in Sweden.

Krum mentions flying over lakes and mountains in the summer. Several Scandanavian countries have short winter days and many lakes, but the addition of mountains in the description narrows the choices.

Some parts of Sweden have no daylight at all during part of the winter, which fits with Krum's description of being unable to fully enjoy the extensive Durmstrang grounds.

Hermione also thinks that Durmstrang is in the North.

Sweden seems to fit what we know.

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Solitaire - Jan 17, 2005 10:44 pm (#84 of 109)

I was just on the Slytherin thread and got to thinking about Viktor. He attends Durmstrang, so he must be a pure-blood. Yet he seems very smitten with Hermione. I wonder what his family's views on Muggle-borns are? Would they forbid him to marry her, should that issue arise? If he married her against their wishes, would he be burned off his family tree?

I'd like to know more about the feelings of Durmstrangers on "blood issues." Do they line up behind Voldemort? Or do they feel that simply not intermarrying or sharing their magical knowledge is sufficient?

Solitaire

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Prefect Marcus - Jan 18, 2005 8:41 am (#85 of 109)

I doubt there is much difference between Hogwarts, Durmstrang, and Beauxbatons admittance policy. They are the three biggest, most prestigious schools in Wizarding Europe. We know their curriculums differ somewhat. Draco claims that Durmstrang teaches Dark Arts rather than just its defense.

If pure-bloods are very rare, and so many of the powerful wizards are non-pureblood, why would any school that wished to remain at the top forbid non-purebloods? Is there canon that implies that?

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timrew - Jan 18, 2005 3:01 pm (#86 of 109)

Maybe they admit purebloods with Slytherin tendencies..............

Would you thrust the blame on anyone else for one of your misdemeanours?...........Yes.

Would you flee the scene of the crime and blame it on somebody else?..............Yes.

Would you stay at the back in a battle, and then claim that the victory was entirely down to you..............Yes.

You've passed.....welcome to Durmstrang........

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timrew - Jan 18, 2005 3:34 pm (#87 of 109)

Maybe they admit purebloods with Slytherin tendencies............

I actually meant 'Mudbloods'..........

Sorry about the extra post. I was timed out!

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Hollywand - Jan 18, 2005 6:01 pm (#88 of 109)

Bwhaaahaa. tim, you are hilarious!

It would seem to me that Karakoff, Death-Eater-At-Large as headmaster would skew the "requirements" of the school toward discrimination against Muggle-borns.

Also, during the Yule Ball, Karakoff is not pleased with Viktor's choice of dance partner.

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Czarina II - Feb 10, 2005 7:00 pm (#89 of 109)

Also, during the Yule Ball, Karkaroff is not pleased with Viktor's choice of dance partner. – Hollywand

Which begs the question, who SHOULD Viktor have invited to the ball? Pansy Parkinson? Another pureblood girl from Hogwarts? One of the Beauxbatons girls? Fleur Delacour? (Two champions going together -- ha!) Or should Karkaroff have brought a nice, pretty, pureblood girl from Durmstrang? Tsk, tsk, twas his own fault if he didn't like Viktor's choice.

I think Durmstrang might very well only accept purebloods. Perhaps in Eastern Europe, someone with quarter-blood or less might be considered "pure" -- there's no indication that fanatics at Durmstrang are as fanatical as the Blacks and the Malfoys. Besides, Durmstrang apparently covers a recruiting ground that is MUCH larger than Hogwarts. It could stand to reason that there are more purebloods for it to admit.

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frogface - Mar 1, 2005 1:41 am (#90 of 109)

Well the grounds are said to be bigger, but the castle is said by Vicktor to be quite small. Four floors if I'm correct?

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Steve Newton - Mar 1, 2005 6:14 am (#91 of 109)

Just having four floors does not mean that it is small. Just not tall. The Pentagon is one of the largest office buildings in the world, maybe the largest, but is only a few floors high. (I should remember how many but don't. Seven, I think.)

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frogface - Mar 1, 2005 9:27 am (#92 of 109)

That’s a fair point but Krum does actually state that the castle itself is smaller than Hogwarts.

'Vell, ve have a castle also, not as big as this, nor as comfortable, I am thinking,' he was telling Hermoine. 'Ve have just four floors, and the fires are lit only for magical purposes. But ve have grounds larger even than these...”

So the grounds themselves are bigger than Hogwarts, but Durmstrang castle is of a smaller size.

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Czarina II - Mar 30, 2005 3:28 pm (#93 of 109)

The size of the castle is not necessarily an indication of the number of students. The dormitories could be smaller or less spread out than at Hogwarts, for example, or some of the students could be housed in other buildings on the grounds (which are, after all, supposed to be rather large). To extrapolate, the United States is not as big as Canada, but it has ten times the population. Not that I'm saying Durmstrang has ten thousand students, of course. I think that as JKR specifies that she is not good at maths, she probably has no idea how big Durmstrang is, come to think of it. I doubt the number of classmates Krum has (had) will be all that important to the story.

But since we are to hear from Krum again in the story (although probably not in HbP), does anyone have any ideas how Durmstrang could factor into the plot again? I have the feeling Karkaroff could be hiding there.

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Solitaire - Mar 30, 2005 9:13 pm (#94 of 109)

Doesn't Durmstrang admit only pure-blood wizarding students? If so, it does seem logical to assume it might have fewer students than schools that accept all wizarding students.

Aren't the "blue bloods"--or aristocracy--of any society usually the smallest group? Just wondering ...

Solitaire

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Archangel - Mar 31, 2005 4:13 am (#95 of 109) Reply
Edited by Mar 31, 2005 4:15 am<P>

. . . does anyone have any ideas how Durmstrang could factor into the plot again?

Voldemort goes global and attacks foreign nations?
Harry gets "portkeyed" to the school to witness an important event or to engage in battle?
Harry views a memory in a Pensieve involving someone from or has been to Durmstrang?
Perhaps, because this school is devoted to the Dark Arts, Voldemort studied here as well?
It might be where his death stopping potion was brewed and so where the antidote lies?


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Czarina II - Apr 22, 2005 4:45 am (#96 of 109)

Interesting ideas, Archangel.

I have the funniest feeling that the only way we would see Durmstrang is in a Pensieve or something along those lines, because I doubt Harry will be travelling anywhere off Britain. This is just as well, considering that the story mostly takes place at one of three locations: London (and environs, including Privet Drive), Hogwarts (and environs), and the Burrow. Only the graveyard scene and the Quidditch World Cup are exceptions so far.

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dizzy lizzy - Apr 22, 2005 3:30 pm (#97 of 109)

Actually Czarina, I like your point about the 3 locations that the story has been located in.

I'm more inclined we will see more of the residents of Durmstrang, not just the school. I'm not entirely confident it will be only Krum we will be seeing.

Lizzy

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Tomoé - Apr 23, 2005 8:56 am (#98 of 109)

I don't think we will ever see the school, or see Beauxbatons. I'm not sure it will be relevant enough and there so much loose ends to tie already in Britain.

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Solitaire - Apr 24, 2005 2:58 am (#99 of 109)
Edited Apr 24, 2005 3:59 am

If Voldemort had studied at Durmstrang, he would have had to do it after he left Hogwarts--unless he studied there during summers away from Hogwarts. But then Dumbledore would surely have been informed that Riddle had either run away from--or not returned to--the orphanage during one (or more than one) summer ... or so it would seem.

Solitaire

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Nathaniel Shafer - Apr 25, 2005 5:29 pm (#100 of 109)
Edited Apr 25, 2005 6:30 pm

Since the tri-wizard tournament used to rotate host schools every 4 years, how is it possible that the location of Durmstrang is secret? It sounds quite improbable the a hundred years prior to GoF, several dozen Hogwarts students went to Durmstrang without at least having a vague notion of where it is. Anyone have any theories of how this would be possible?

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Solitaire - Apr 26, 2005 9:59 pm (#101 of 109)

Perhaps the host school provides portkeys--or maybe they send the transportation to fetch the participants but do not allow them to see where they are going.

Solitaire

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Cornelia - Apr 27, 2005 12:13 am (#102 of 109)

Or hide it under a Fidelius Charm. Only the secretkeeper personally can tell where it is.

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Czarina II - Jun 5, 2005 11:56 pm (#103 of 109)

I think Portkeys are the most likely solution, or Apparition. And perhaps the location of Durmstrang was not always a secret...

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Maddest Dragon - Oct 16, 2005 2:05 pm (#104 of 109)

If Durmstrang's location wasn't always a secret, surely there's a written record of it somewhere? Or someone outside the Durmstrang community who knows where it is? If the Malfoys considered sending Draco there, maybe they know. Apparition... not likely. Even if other countries have a lower minimum age for an Apparition license, they probably wouldn't license an eleven- or twelve-year-old who's just beginning their magical education. And not even all adult wizards Apparate.

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Finn BV - Oct 16, 2005 2:33 pm (#105 of 109)

Perhaps there was once a written record of it but it has been magically erased. If the Malfoys considered sending Draco there, it may have been a similar deal to that of Hogwarts'. Train, or boat, or something from a marked point of departure.

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Maddest Dragon - Oct 16, 2005 9:12 pm (#106 of 109)

I agree, Durmstrang probably has its own magical conveyance to get its students there. My money's on the ship. If the school is near a body of water, the ship could submerge and emerge at the castle, so not be seen by outsiders. The difference from Hogwarts is, Hogwarts is located near the village of Hogsmeade, its train stops at Hogsmeade station, and the carriages pass through on the way to the castle (presumably, since Harry and Tonks walked through Hogsmeade to get to Hogwarts from the station).

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Czarina II - Oct 17, 2005 8:56 pm (#107 of 109)

There is probably a port where the flying ship docks, similar to Platform 9 and 3/4, and there the students board. The ship would then travel to Durmstrang, probably with shut windows and in a zigzag (or the magical equivalent), so that when they arrive at the school, none of the passengers know how they got there. Come to think of it, if the ship flies, it is probably a good idea to keep the windows (portholes?) sealed from the wind, rain, water, etc.

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Choices - Oct 18, 2005 7:59 am (#108 of 109)

The ship doesn't fly - it arose from the depths of the lake. It was Madame Maxime's coach that flew.

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Czarina II - Oct 28, 2005 7:15 pm (#109 of 109)

All the better for it to be sealed, then! ;-)


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