New Clue, who?

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who?

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:26 am

New Clue, who?

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. At that time, this thread was still set in the "Archived Thread to be Worked" folder of the WC forum. Elanor

Joelle - Aug 16, 2004 4:10 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 12, 2006 12:26 pm
Ok, Instead of cloggin up the JKR website discussion of the new clue I thought we could do it here. So if you haven't gotten the clue from the website don't read farther since I'm going to paste the text below.

“He looked rather like an old lion. there were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he has keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire -rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.”

So my question for you is who do you think he is?



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Last edited by Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 1 to 50)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:32 am

Cezar Salem - Aug 16, 2004 4:25 pm (#1 of 476)
Why, the HBP of course... or not... actually no, I think it is the DADA teacher(witch could also be the HBP)... now the big question : HBP who ?????? who is the HBP? now, if the description realy is indeed of the HBP then we definatly now we haven't met him before... that would eliminate a bunch of theory´s here, including mine... witch is why I dont want to believe it is the HBP :-)... I always pictured the HBP as being someone young, hence the price, not king... but oh well... maybe McClaggan?

oh... FIST POST!!! Its my first first post, so I am quite happy... actually I have been happy all day(well ever since I acme back form school at least)... I wonder why...lol.... probably why I am being so silly too... oh thank you J.K.R, you made my day, the door opened at last!!!! we should all rejoice ,even muggles as like us!(wring a funny little bell?)cough diggle cough

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lupin's daughter - Aug 16, 2004 4:27 pm (#2 of 476)

have we ever been given a description of G.Grifyndor?? or maby the new DADA teacher... also we have this McClaggan we need to account for..

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riddikulus - Aug 16, 2004 4:51 pm (#3 of 476)

I'm going to guess it's about Aberforth... only because she describes him with tawny hair... which resembles DDs hair. Of couse not all siblings have the same color hair and wear glasses... but, my guess is it's Aberforth.

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Madame Librarian - Aug 16, 2004 4:55 pm (#4 of 476)

This is one of those weird coincidences stories.

OK, the other day when I read the transcript, I learn about the new character named McClaggan. Someone asked JKR how she comes up with names, and for that one, she answered that she had just run across it recently and liked the look and sound of it. Fine. She could have seen the name in a phone book, on an ad, in a newspaper article, anywhere.

Maybe she heard it for the same reason I heard it just today. Listening to NPR in the morning, I hear that the program "Fresh Air" will be about a retired rocker names Ian McClaggan! He used to be with the British group Faces (aka Little Faces in the UK), the group where Rod Stewart got his start, and Kenny Jones, too.

I've never heard of him, but you can't go by me, I am rock band challenged (even if it was my era, I only know a select few). Apparently this guy, who now lives in Texas (y'all) has released a retrospective CD, so he's on a promo tour, giving interviews, etc. Maybe he went home to England. Maybe JKR knows of this guy or happened to catch his name on the radio. Don't know if this is important or not, but it was one of those things that made me sit up and say, "Whoa, that's who he is! This is how JKR came up with the name! We're in the same current events loop!"

If the new excerpt is indeed a description of McGlaggan, I think he's described in a way one would describe a good guy character--"old lion", not ferocious lion; "tawny mane" sounds beautiful not scary; "wire-rimmed spectacles" makes me think of another good guy who wears this kind of glasses;"loping grace" and "slight limp," an old injury from fighting in VWI maybe or at least not a threatening way of moving, "grace" is a nice sounding word; "yellowish eyes" could be scary but yellow might be associated with golden and that's a Gryffindor color.

And, I think the description I'm reading is of the new DADA teacher. Don't kow why I think this, no rationale behind it, just a feeling.

Aaaah, I could be so wrong. See that? No, over here. Wait, it just moved, now it's there. Quick, click on this. Uh oh, it's too late. Oh, no...there it is. The...aaaiiiieeeee...red herring!!!!

Ciao. Barb

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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 16, 2004 5:14 pm (#5 of 476)

When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
The first thing I thought upon reading this quote was Aberforth as well. The description sounded a lot like DD, but he wouldn't be described at this point. However, I realized that we have actually met Aberforth before. So if we see him again, Harry would think that he was the bartender at the Hog's Head. He would not give a description like that one, at least I don't think so. So my second guess is Gryffindor. It was definitely the comparison to the lion that made me think this. However, here is an interesting thought. If it is Gryffindor and the description does resemble the Dumbledore brothers, are they somehow related? (Gryffindor and DD, I mean, as the Dumbledore brothers are obviously related).

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riddikulus - Aug 16, 2004 5:21 pm (#6 of 476)

If you go to the second disc of CoS and check out the portraits... DD is "freshly painted" right under GG. Lots of things about that interest me. Why would someone alive be freshly painted and put up on the wall of dead headmasters????? hmmmmmmmmm "there are things worse than death" ... hmmm and under GG. Auburn, Tawny haircolors. Of course, they're GG descendants.

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Ozymandias - Aug 16, 2004 5:39 pm (#7 of 476)

Nothing beside remains...
My first thought was G. Gryffindor, because of the lion imagery. But I have a question: why would he be described this way if he's dead? This certainly sounds like JKR's narrative voice, not something out of a history book that Hermione might read. The content is also wrong for a book, or for a lecture, or any other way I can think of to get exposition on a dead guy. I just don't see how we'd get this description without meeting him in person. A ghost? Perhaps, but you'd think he'd be at Hogwarts.

It just sounds wrong for Aberforth. There are similarities, but it doesn't match for me with the image I've gotten of Aberforth from previous descriptions.

My guess is McClaggan, whoever he may be. (New DADA teacher?) And Barb, I too wondered if the name came from the musician guy. I found his name when I was searching for information on the name.

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Star Crossed - Aug 16, 2004 5:50 pm (#8 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it's Remus. The limp and the glasses and the hair, just shouts, Remus! Anyone else get this?

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Cezar Salem - Aug 16, 2004 5:53 pm (#9 of 476)

OK, after thinking basicaly all day, I have thought of two options... 1)Hedwig(tawny mane,yelow eyes, bushy eybrows... anybody have the first book so that they can put her description up?)2)Nicholas flammel or his son or something 3)Maybe someone in harrys dream 4)malaggan 5) New DADA teacher... it could of course be 234 and 5 together... Did I miss anyone ?

Edit... I definatly think it is someone from the "light " side...

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Ozymandias - Aug 16, 2004 5:53 pm (#10 of 476)

Nothing beside remains...
Oh my goodness, now that you say that, it's SO Remus. But what a dissapointment that would be if it was a character we already know.

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Joelle - Aug 16, 2004 6:05 pm (#11 of 476)

Yea i was thinkign that she wouldn't give us a description of a character we already know. Godric Gryfindor, the Half blood prince, the new DADA teacher are likely hoods in my brain. For some reason i don't think that Aberforth plays a huge role. Though he could be the HBP... hmm maybe not
-J

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 16, 2004 6:12 pm (#12 of 476)

The imagery of a lion that was included in the description leads me to believe that this character is somehow connected to Godric Gryffindor and Gryffindor house.

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Cezar Salem - Aug 16, 2004 8:20 pm (#13 of 476)

I was looking to futherly explain why maybe its hedwig... I thougth the description was extreamly unhumanly like(yelow eyes?) I thougth of the wordings (tawny ) and here goes the results :] tawny -- of a light brown to brownish orange color and this was the second site that came up ...: The Tawny Owl, Strix aluco , is a species of owl resident in much of Europe and southern Russia.

This species is a part of the larger grouping of owls known as typical owls, Strigidae, which contains most species of owl. The other grouping is the barn owls, Tytonidae.

This is a medium-sized earless owl. It is capable of killing prey such as brown rats. I know its not much, but it says barny owls and also says about killing rats huhu... and alos mane :the long thick hair that grows along the top of a horse's neck or around the face and neck of a lion or :thick long hair on a person's head:

I definatly think that the description seems a little "animalish" An animagus !! Oh it seems so alike the description given to Peter wicht seemed mos rat-like, axactly like his animagus form, so I think that this "person"is an animugus!!...

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Solitaire - Aug 16, 2004 8:46 pm (#14 of 476)

Hedwig is a snowy owl, not a tawny owl. I think that would probably rule her out.

Regarding the description mentioned: The yellow-ish eyes and tawny mane sound VERY leonine to me. My money's on the new DADA teacher, too. If he is capable and the kids like him, I hope he sticks around for both books. A new DADA teacher every year is VERY trying on the readers, as well as the students. LOL

According to the Lexicon, it was confirmed by JKR that Aberforth IS the barkeep at the Hog's Head, and this is the description given of him in OotP: "He was a grumpy-looking old man with a great deal of long grey hair and a beard. He was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry." Okay, maybe he is a metamorphmagus, but the first description doesn't sound much like Aberforth to me.

Solitaire

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DJ Evans - Aug 16, 2004 9:26 pm (#15 of 476)

Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
Madam Hooch is also described with having "yellowish" eyes, isn't she? Except her's are described as "yellow like a hawk" instead of a lion. But maybe the person being described on JKR's site is some of her kin? She hasn't been mentioned much really throughout the series, just enough so we don't forget her.

Later, Deb

P.S. Just as a side note, here is the description that Harry gave of Aberforth in OotP, page 336: The barman sidled toward them out of a back room. He was a grumpy-looking old man with a great deal of long grey hair & beard. He was tall & thin & looked vaguely familiar to Harry." I know some had thought of Aberforth from the bit on JKR's web site, but this description and that one doesn't sound much alike.

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riddikulus - Aug 16, 2004 9:32 pm (#16 of 476)

Edited by Aug 16, 2004 9:33 pm
Ah ha, very interesting. Thanks for that Solitaire and Deb. I suppose I should have read up on him, before coming to a conclusion based on looks assumptions... although, I did say, it sounds like him, based on how I envision DD... and in truth, I could be right, to some degree... the resemblance may not be Aberforth, but someone related to DD and the heir of Gryffindor and possibly the new DADA teacher and an animagus ... all wrapped into one.

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DJ Evans - Aug 16, 2004 9:39 pm (#17 of 476)

Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
I was doing the same thing Riddikulus, my first thought was of DD/Aberforth. Someone in that lineage at least. So who knows?

Later, Deb

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Solitaire - Aug 16, 2004 9:53 pm (#18 of 476)

Riddikulus, after I just finished saying it was possible for Umbridge to disguise herself sufficiently to do business in Knockturn, I suppose I must concede that it would be equally possible for Aberforth to disguise himself, as well. If the barman from the Hog's Head turns up missing, perhaps that will tell us something. BTW, have either of the brothers been married? Could one of them have a son?

Solitaire

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Paul Filippelli - Aug 16, 2004 10:01 pm (#19 of 476)

Someone said Godric Gryffindor. I think that's a good idea. CoS and HBP are related, aren't they? We get a description of Salazar in CoS, why not Godric in HBP? The only problem is how would we know how he walks if he lived over 1,000 years ago?

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Dr Filibuster - Aug 16, 2004 11:56 pm (#20 of 476)

Sue, from Northwich, England.
My first thought was Godric because of the lion references too.

I wouldn't rule out this idea just because the extract describes how he moves. Perhaps he left some sort of visual message? The prophesy orbs showed the seer didn't they? Maybe the sorting hat produces something? Maybe he's in a portrait?

I didn't think of Lupin because his eyes have never been described as yellowish before.

PS Thank you Denise for posting the quote yesterday. I am one of those unfortunates who can only access the text version of JKRowling's site.

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Doris Crockford - Aug 17, 2004 7:10 am (#21 of 476)

As I read the quote, I originally thought Godric Gryffindor, with the lion images, but that might be too simple for JKR. Then I thought of Lupin, with the "loping grace", since loping sounds like Lupin. But his hair, as far as I can remember, is ordinary brown with gray flecks, and I don't think Lupin wears glasses or has yellow eyes. Then I thought of Moody, because of the limp and the mane of hair (Moody has a "mane of dark-grey hair" when he arrives in the Great Hall and sits down to eat at the Opening Feast). But again, Moody doesn't have yellow eyes (unless both of his eyes have been replaced, which is rather unlikely since, in the Pensieve, Harry sees Moody with 2 normal eyes and doesn't mention that they're yellow) or glasses, as far as eye know (pun intended). So, in conclusion, this is Moody's nephew, who is Lupin's cousin, and they all happen to be descendants of Godric Gryffindor. (In other words, I have no idea)

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Cezar Salem - Aug 17, 2004 9:59 am (#22 of 476)

LOL Doris!!! I guess no one does...but its defiantly fun trying to guess! I realy liked the idea that I saw somwehere in wich instead of a pensive, harrys sees the memory of GG in the sorting hat... J.K said we would find out more about the sorting hat...And is it possible for GG to be an animagus? is it possible all four where animagus? like snake,lione,badger and whats the other one? They are all represented by animals.... and the craziest of theorys ever lol: It could be a dedscription of harry potter himself, after a metamorphagus(sp, i know) trasnformation...I know, ,I'm crazy it couldnt be... or could it ? I mean wire rimmed spectacles? hehe I just think ist an animagus because of the animal like description

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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 17, 2004 10:46 am (#23 of 476)

If she's been writing book 6 for this long now, and is at least half-way done and she heard the name McLaggan "the other day"....I don't see how he can be an important character if she just started using his name....I don't know I'm probably wrong....

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Madame Librarian - Aug 17, 2004 10:52 am (#24 of 476)

As long as we're just having fun, here's a wild guess--it's Ron!! He's aged a bit (this is in the future), limps because of that old leg injury from PoA; tawny could be red hair mixed with grey (works for me); yellow eyes--well, that is a problem isn't it; loping grace, he is described as tall in OoP (still growing?), and if he keeps growing and ends up very tall, well, tall people lope don't they? (being only 5 ft. 1 in., I wouldn't instinctively know).

OK, I'm under the desk so you can all toss your dungbombs now.

Ciao. Barb

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Kasse - Aug 17, 2004 11:22 am (#25 of 476)

*tossing dungbomb at Madame Librarian*

My guess is on McClaggan who I think is the new DADA.

Question: Why do some people thinnk it is Remus? Since when has remus been descrided remotely like that? Also does Remus wear glasses? I am so confused.....

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Star Crossed - Aug 17, 2004 12:02 pm (#26 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Madame Librarian, go us. We're both 5'1 and have no idea what it's like to be tall. ;D

Kasse, I don't think McClaggan can be the DADA professor, as she only found his name the other day the other day. Razz

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Annika - Aug 17, 2004 12:25 pm (#27 of 476)

I think the new DADA teacher could be McClaggan. Changing a name is possible. Look on her website at all the names (Gary/Dean, etc.) she has changed mid-write.

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Kasse - Aug 17, 2004 12:59 pm (#28 of 476)

Hey Aly you are 16 right? Well there is still a possibility of a growth spurt so keep your fingers crossed. I am 23 and 5'2 - trust me there is no more growing for me, I honestly do not mid though. The best things come in small packages right?

I agree with Annika, she could have changes the DADA's name mid write.

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Good Evans - Aug 17, 2004 1:10 pm (#29 of 476)

Practically perfect in every way
Well.. I hope it is the half blood prince - decendant of GG. Whether McLagen or the new DADA (as they could all be one and the same) I dont know. But I am bursting to find out! I hope the clues continue.

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Eponine - Aug 17, 2004 2:24 pm (#30 of 476)

Yay for short people! I'm only 5'3, so I know how you all feel.

I'm leaning towards the description being about GG or a descendant or maybe the new DADA teacher. At least for now I am.

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Star Crossed - Aug 17, 2004 2:56 pm (#31 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hey Aly you are 16 right?

14, actually. I'll be 15 next month. Means I have even more of a chance! Woo!

I like the idea of Gryff being the HBP, someone we have no idea about for the DADA professor, and Remus being the person in the transcript thing. (Limp means battle [usually], which means he lived [for that one, at least])

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Madam Pince - Aug 17, 2004 3:40 pm (#32 of 476)

The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I agree with StarCrossed -- no firm evidence, just a hunch -- but I think McClaggan is just going to be some random person who isn't too important to the story (perhaps a Death Eater?)

My first thought when I read the description "tidbit" from JKR's site was that it was Aberforth Dumbledore. But in light of the above quotes from OoP about Aberforth's previous description, I don't think this one is him.

I think this description is of Godric Gryffindor, and he is being seen in a Pensieve or some other magical means -- perhaps something like Sirius' mirror?

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riddikulus - Aug 17, 2004 5:17 pm (#33 of 476)

If anyone has The CoS dvd, you can see a painting of GG in DDs office, to see what he looks like. As i've been stating, you'll also see one of DD right under Godric.

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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 17, 2004 5:51 pm (#34 of 476)

Do you think those paintings are accurate?

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riddikulus - Aug 17, 2004 5:56 pm (#35 of 476)

As much as anything else in the movie is. Smile

Just interesting that they'd add them... and one of DD, under the regal Gryffindor portrait... I can't get past the "almost alive" mention.

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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 17, 2004 6:02 pm (#36 of 476)

That struck me as odd too....

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Ann - Aug 17, 2004 6:25 pm (#37 of 476)

I thought Gryffindor, too, because of all the lion references, perhaps as seen in a portrait or some other form. But then, thanks to Madame Librarian's new thread on eyes and glasses, I thought glasses, and it occurred to me that no one in the 11th century (or whenever Gryffindor is supposed to have lived, "a thousand years ago") wore glasses. I don't think they were invented until the 15th or 16th century at the earliest.

So then I thought Aberforth, because he sounds like Dumbledore, particularly the loping grace. But someone pointed out that Harry has already seen him, so we probably wouldn't get a new description.

I like the Hedwig possibility, yellow eyes are good, and the limp, from Umbridge's interception, but she is white, and female, so that seems unlikely; and Ron as an old man is a cheering thought (or perhaps it would be that aging potion that Fred & George tried in GoF?), and he is tall, and had a broken leg, but I suspect his hair would not be tawny with gray streaks but shining silver (that's what color my bright-red-haired mother's hair was, and Dumbledore's for that matter).

So I think it's the new DADA teacher, possibly another werewolf (why not? the last one was such a success) or more likely a lion animagus of some sort. My reason: a snippet that she knows for sure is set and will not change now is probably from quite early in the book, and Harry always meets the new DADA teacher quite early on. And I would guess a good one!

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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 17, 2004 6:43 pm (#38 of 476)

He didn't know that it was Aberforth though. We might still get a new description.

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riddikulus - Aug 17, 2004 7:33 pm (#39 of 476)

Edited by Aug 17, 2004 7:34 pm
The painting of GG in the dvd (granted, accuracy aside) for anyone else that has seen it, does it appear he's wearing half moon glasses, like DD? His eyes don't appear yellow to me, but then again... they might not, in a portrait for various reasons.

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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 17, 2004 7:52 pm (#40 of 476)

I'm fairly sure the clue is the HBP. Why would there be such a big deal if that wasn't who it was describing? Thus, I feel that the Half-Blood Prince is a new character - this guy!

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 17, 2004 8:23 pm (#41 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Out of left field...the description of yellow eyes and tawny (reddish, ginger hair) reminds me of Crookshanks...

Dodges dungbombs!

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Lunar Tides - Aug 17, 2004 9:02 pm (#42 of 476)

Hey everyone, (My first post, :-p)

Primarily: Thank you Madame Pince for welcoming me, I feel like I have a non-muggle family now...*tears of happiness begin flowing*

Erm, anyhoo, I was just wondering, are there any myths about lions that have anything to do with leg injuries or limps? As far as my knowledge extends (*coughs*), I know that lions are worshipped in almost every culture in one way or another.

I wonder if Richard the Lionhearted has anything to do with the Wizarding World...lol, that was random, sorry.

Another piece of info that I managed to pick up in my travels through the Internet: the name "Regulus" means "prince" or "heart of the lion." But I don't see how Regulus would have anything to do with this. This was probably mentioned already, but just in case, I'm mentioning again. So there.

I personally think that J.K. Rowling wants us for the identity of the HBP to be secret and suprising, so I have a feeling that McClaggan is not the HBP.

Finally, I saw this in the Half-Blood Prince Thread, but I think someone had this idea that the sorting hat accomplishes Gryfinndor's bidding by turning a Hogwart Spirit into the Half Blood Prince. Maybe I've been watching the Matrix too much, but the idea of programs and their purposes makes me think. Maybe the Half Blood Prince is something in which it only serves one "purpose," to help Harry in some way. Once it serves this "purpose", then it disappears or something.

These are just my thoughts, please criticize them or destroy them in any way possible. Thank you.
-Chanuel

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Stringer - Aug 17, 2004 9:08 pm (#43 of 476)

Alright, the mention of crookshanks is interesting. Yellow eyes do remind me of cats eyes....

Also I noticed a lot of gum wrappers, on the desk, behind the door. The last time I heard the mention of gum wrappers it was at St. Mungo's when Neville's mom hands him a wrapper. His grandmother tells him he must have a million by now(?) and Neville keeps it anyway. Do you think there is a connection?

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Archangel - Aug 17, 2004 11:31 pm (#44 of 476)

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hey Stringer, the gumwrappers are being discussed in the Longbottoms thread. You might be interested in some of the points/theories put forth there.

Hello Lunar Tides! Welcome to the Forum! I'm assuming that you were referring this discussion with regards to your sorting hat reference. Is this correct? You may want to post your thoughts on this on the HBP thread as well. Smile

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haymoni - Aug 18, 2004 5:40 am (#45 of 476)

I think the quote is describing a Centaur.

There is a lot of unfinished business with the Centaurs.

It could be Firenze's father or some elder Centaur with more common sense than Bane.

The glasses kindof throw me though.

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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 18, 2004 6:01 am (#46 of 476)

Lunar tides, there is an old roman myth called Androcles and the Lion. The Lion walks with a limp until Androcles removes the thorn from its foot. Thats the only Lion myth that I can think of that is related to limping.

Androcles later had to fight the lion in the coloseum, but the lion remembered Androcles' kindess and spaired him.

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Doris Crockford - Aug 18, 2004 6:36 am (#47 of 476)

Hmmmm, Haymoni, a centaur's an interesting idea. He could be friends with Dumbledore and that's how he got the glasses. But I have to say, the description of how this person walks reminds me more of a person than an animal.

You know who else has yellow eyes? The merpeople. Not that I actually think it is a merperson, but I thought I'd throw that out there.

The odd thing about the quote is the 'he' at the beginning in square brackets that is handwritten. That tells me that Harry knows exactly who it is, but is seeing them (or seeing them in this form) for the first time ('he' is replacing a name). I mean, JKR wouldn't have to write 'he' if the quote already said 'he'. Or maybe the quote actually says, "The man who walked into Flourish and Blotts ahead of Harry looked rather like an old lion...", and we'll all go mad trying to figure out who it is, just to find out it's another Mark Evans.

I think McClaggan is just going to be some random guy (or girl) mentioned at the Sorting.

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Chris. - Aug 18, 2004 6:40 am (#48 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hmmm... stupid question here.

Were glasses (spectacles) around in Godric Gryffindor's time?

You can cart me off to St Mungo's now

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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2004 7:02 am (#49 of 476)

Librarian
Lunar asked if there were any legends of wounded lions. The only one that I can think of is Androcles and the lion. Androcles pulls a thorn from a lions paw and is later saved by the lion. I don't see how this relates to HP.

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Thora - Aug 18, 2004 11:19 am (#50 of 476)

I like that Regulus idea, good one, but I can't recall for the life of me the last name she had paired with that.... sigh and no time to look it up. Personally I think the description is of the new D.A.D.A. teacher and I bet he's the HBP too.

I was just soooo mad when my husband insisted I come spend time w/ him instead of trying to solve the puzzle when I found it, I mean he's great and all, and I have been neglecting the whole family in favor of a OOTP re-read, but I had WAY different priorities at that moment, and what if I'd missed my chance? Thank goodness I could cheat.

Anyway, gushing, I'll stop.

Thora

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 51 to 100)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:34 am

Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 18, 2004 12:48 pm (#51 of 476)
There are many legends of heros who are sleeping and will awake when they are most needed: Merlin, King Arthur, Frederick Barbarossa. I wonder if Godric is a sleeping hero who will come back to help? With the exception of the glasses I would think the description fits a true Gryffindor. LPO

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Lunar Tides - Aug 18, 2004 1:02 pm (#52 of 476)

I've come across discussions of glasses in this forum, and according to the posts, the consensus is that there weren't glasses during the time Gryffindor lived.

By just looking at the excerpt J.K. Rowling gave us, I don't think there are enough clues for us to deduce a character from the description given. I think the only reasons J.K. Rowling showed us this excerpt is:

1. To show us no-question-about-it that there will be a new character. (She also revealed McClaggan to tell us this.)

2. And to satisfy our craving for new information.

So basically, I think the info she gave us can't give us any more than the info given.

If anyone thinks otherwise, please say so. Wink -Chanuel

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 18, 2004 3:01 pm (#53 of 476)

Chanuel, what you have said is an excellent point. However, the description lends itself to the conclusion that the new character is some how connected to Gryffindor in that the emblem of Gryffindor House is a lion

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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 18, 2004 4:17 pm (#54 of 476)

When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Edited by Aug 18, 2004 4:18 pm
Thora wrote: I like that Regulus idea, good one, but I can't recall for the life of me the last name she had paired with that.."

Black, Regulus Black. He is Sirius' brother that was killed by Death Eaters when he tried to leave their ranks.

My take on the description is that it is of a new character. The lion, yellow eyes, tawney-mane etc are clues. When we meet him, he will just be the new DADA teacher or the new Minister of Magic or the HBP or whatever. At the end of the book however, we will find out that he is related to Godric Gryffinodor. The lion-like description is a clue for us, so we can figure out he is related to Gryffindor before it is revealed. I also think he will be a cousin or some relation to DD, since he looks a little like DD does as well. But that is something we will find out right away, like when DD introduces the new DADA teacher, his cousin, McLaggan. Anyway, that is my guess, and I am sticking to it...at least for a couple of hours.

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mike miller - Aug 18, 2004 5:00 pm (#55 of 476)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
Have we accounted for each original member of the Order? Is it possible that DD could not find this Order member until now so we were stuck with Umbridge in OotP?

It seems too staged to give us a name McClaggan and the description when we know there will be a new DADA professor. Thinking of how JKR often gives clues, the lionlike part of the description could be a diversion to make us think Godric while the limp the real clue leading us to the new DADA professor. (excuse the rambling)

If we can account for all of the original Order members, then I'm betting on the new DADA professor based on the "limp" alone.

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riddikulus - Aug 18, 2004 5:20 pm (#56 of 476)

Every year, before the return of Voldy, there has been a horrible fate for the new DADA teacher... now the WW knows of Voldys return and theyre going to need a teacher who can bring together for the whole school what Harrys been doing in the DA. What wizard can be brought in/back/forward that could fill that role... that's powerful and knows enough about the darks arts to defeat Voldy... or teach the kids to defeat Voldy and protect themselves from him?

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Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2004 6:21 pm (#57 of 476)

Librarian
Could it be the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaching?

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riddikulus - Aug 18, 2004 6:55 pm (#58 of 476)

OMG Steve, you're right!!! I'll just bet it's future Harry! It's Harry in the future!

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Archangel - Aug 18, 2004 9:14 pm (#59 of 476)

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
But the hair's tawny not black so I don't think it could be future Harry. Could this be a mythical creature like a domesticated sphinx perhaps? Just a thought...

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 18, 2004 9:46 pm (#60 of 476)

Not only that, Harry's eyes are green. How would they turn yellow?

I think this is a completely new (human, currently living) character we're looking at, and JK wouldn't go to such lengths to describe him if he weren't important. New DADA teacher? Perhaps.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 18, 2004 10:44 pm (#61 of 476)

Let it snow!
Ann (#38): I thought Gryffindor, too, because of all the lion references, perhaps as seen in a portrait or some other form. But then, thanks to Madame Librarian's new thread on eyes and glasses, I thought glasses, and it occurred to me that no one in the 11th century (or whenever Gryffindor is supposed to have lived, "a thousand years ago") wore glasses. I don't think they were invented until the 15th or 16th century at the earliest.

Actually, glasses were sort of invented by Roger Bacon in the 13th century (1200s). So, if Gryffindor lived a couple hundred years after he made Hogwarts (around 990-1000 to 1100) before he had his portrait taken, he could've had glasses (though I don't think they'd quite be modern spectacles, but maybe that's a purposeful anachronism).

However, there are references from the Roman writer Seneca of glass bowls being filled with water to magnify words on a page. Monks later used blown glass (actual magnifying glasses). Bacon then came up with the idea, around 1240-1260, of putting the glass in a frame you could prop up on your nose when you wanted to read something or magnify something. Real spectacles weren't invented until around 1290 to correct for far sightedness.

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Ann - Aug 18, 2004 11:32 pm (#62 of 476)

S.E. Jones, thanks for the clarification. But it still would mean a lifetime of at least 260 years or so (assuming Gryffindor was at least 20 when the founded Hogwarts). Do we know that wizards live that long? It would be quite neat if it were him, though.

And, Archangel, I thought a sphinx, too, probably because of the illustration in the American edition of GoF. But they are female, and it is clearly "(He)." By the way, I'm sure the actual page has a name, and she just wrote in "(He)" because she'd torn off that bit, to make our lives interesting.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 18, 2004 11:55 pm (#63 of 476)

Let it snow!
Well, I'm guessing wizards could live that long (Marchbanks is older than 150 because she tested Dumbledore in his NEWTs and Tofty is apparently older than her, though probably not by too much), however, I too don't find it very likely.

My guess would either be, if it's a memory or portrait, Gryffindor's son (that could make him a half-blood, perhaps?), or, if it's someone now, Gryffindor's decendent.

I somehow prefer to think it is the former for some reason (maybe because it could give us a good backstory on Slytherin and what really happened between the founders). I noticed the need for glasses right off and the fact that the first glasses treated farsightedness (which is what Harry has). Just throwing that out there.....

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Solitaire - Aug 19, 2004 12:42 am (#64 of 476)

Harry has far-sightedness?

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Archangel - Aug 19, 2004 3:30 am (#65 of 476)

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Ann, the are sphinxes that have heads of kings as shown by Great Sphinx in Egypt. Although the one that Harry met in GoF had a head of a woman. I don't know what the Fantasic Beast book says about sphinx since I don't have it with me right now... does anyone know? If JKR explicitly writes there "head of a woman", then there goes my guess. Smile

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Thora - Aug 19, 2004 8:05 am (#66 of 476)

Well for the record Fantastic Beasts says a sphinx has a "human head on a lion's body" but all the ones I've ever read of were female, but if they follow the pride pattern of lions then there would be less males than females anyway.

I don't think it's a sphinx, or it would say he looked old, not like an old lion, that would be repetitive.....

Thanks, I realised where Regulus was from at like midnight last night, so obviously it's not Sirius's little brother since A) wouldn't he have black hair? and B) I swear I've read JKR saying he's definately dead.

It'll be interesting what name she gives this character, she is always so clever with names. I wonder if with the blonde hair he might be German.... hmm that would be Lowe for male Lowin for female and hinken for limp. Anyone know any other languages? I mean she might stick w/ Leo, Leon, Lionel, but I think she'd be a bit wittier than that.

Thora

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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 2:26 pm (#67 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Harry has far-sightedness?

Yes, in PoA, he found it strange when he could see as soon as he woke up. He slept with his glasses on. Sounds to me like he's used to waking up and having everything close to him be blurry.

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Madame Librarian - Aug 19, 2004 3:42 pm (#68 of 476)

Farsightedness (i.e., ability to see far while things close are blurry) in a young person is unusual. It normally hits adults in their 40s, hence the need for reading glasses, which makes print clearer and needles easier to thread. Many adults who wear reading glasses, take them off at movies or when driving--they can still see far quite well.

I'd guess that Harry is nearsighted--the closer something is the better he can see it (hmmm...this point is apt for the eyes thread, too), but if he's very nearsighted--very, very nearsighted--just about everything is blurry. Trust me, my sister was extremely nearsighted. She wouldn't step foot out of bed without first putting her glasses on. Since she was my older, bossier sister, this was one of the few times I had her at a disadvantage.

I'll mention this on the "Harry's eyes" thread.

Ciao. Barb

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S.E. Jones - Aug 19, 2004 4:53 pm (#69 of 476)

Let it snow!
Oops, slip of the fingers. Yes, Harry is nearsighted. Hm, and I wrote that just after saying how he was nearsighted on another thread! Honestly, I need my own prescription checked! Or maybe I just need to refrain from posting so late at night when I should be sleeping....

We know he is nearsighted because the room is always blurry when he wakes up and has to hunt for his glasses, which means he can't see the farther away objects in the room....

Archangel, to my knowledge, there are four different kinds of sphinxes: a gynosphinx (woman's head), an androsphinx (man's head), a criosphinx (goat's head), a hieracosphinx (hawk's head). The criosphinx was more popular in Egypt than in Greece. The hieracosphinx was, I think, more Asian. The traditional Greco-Roman sphinx is either gyno- or andro-....

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Archangel - Aug 19, 2004 6:06 pm (#70 of 476)

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Wow, thanks for that info S.E. Jones! Smile

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weasley by nature - Aug 19, 2004 6:24 pm (#71 of 476)

Concerning Aberforth: "He was a grumpy-looking old man with a great deal of long gray hair and beard. He was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry" (336,US). Compare that with the descriptions of "streaks of gray in his mane of tawny hair," "rangy, loping grace" and "keen yellowish eyes" and I draw the conclusion that these are two seperate people. While Aberforth is described with gray hair, this guy has tawny hair with streaks of gray, there's a big difference to me. Also Aberforth is described as "grumpy-looking" while the comparison to a lion makes this guy sound regal and graceful ("rangy, loping grace"). Also, yellowish eyes are something that you would notice on first meeting someone, and this other guy doesn't sound like Dumbledore at all either.

It can't be a ghost because of the limp. And would a ghost have color (yellowish eyes, tawny hair)? Also, I got the distinct impression that this was a new character. If it was Remus why would he suddenly be described as lion-like or having yellow eyes? It can't be Hedwig because Hedwig is snowy white (not tawny), doesn't wear glasses and would never be compared with a lion (seeing as she's an owl). Oh and she's a girl, so this one is eliminated. Crookshanks doesn't walk with grace, Crookshanks wouldn't wear glasses and I don't see why Crookshanks would have grey streaks all of a sudden. And maybe I'm the only one, but to me there's a difference betweeen tawny and "ginger." As for a person in a portrait, I can't see someone in a portrait being important.

And wouldn't it be repetitive to say that a sphinx looked like an old lion? He basically is a lion. I just looked up the sphinx in the Lexicon, and it appears to be able to be male or female, but it is described as having "violent tendencies" and it is classified as a "beast" and so the description wouldn't fit very well because the description makes it sound serene. Would a "beast" have "keen" eyes? And for that matter would a beast wear GLASSES? By the way, according to the Lexicon, in JKR's universe there are only Egyptian sphinxes not that it matters...

So I think the possibilities are: McClaggan, new DADA teacher, the Half-Blood Prince, or the new Minister of Magic (however I get the feeling that the new Minister will be someone we already know well because I think Dumbledore will have a lot of influence, no evidence to back this up though). Although it is possible that this is a person in a memory (perhaps Godric Gryffindor) or a centaur (which I guess would explain the limp seeing as there's a centaur battle).

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S.E. Jones - Aug 19, 2004 7:06 pm (#72 of 476)

Let it snow!
weasley by nature: Aberforth: "He was a grumpy-looking old man with a great deal of long gray hair and beard. He was tall and thin and looked vaguely familiar to Harry" (336,US). Compare that with the descriptions of "streaks of gray in his mane of tawny hair," "rangy, loping grace" and "keen yellowish eyes" and I draw the conclusion that these are two seperate people. While Aberforth is described with gray hair, this guy has tawny hair with streaks of gray, there's a big difference to me.

Could it be a pensieve description of a slightly younger Aberforth, before his hair was completely grey? We never hear a description of his walk or his eyes... Weren't Dumbledore's eyes described as keen once or twice, though blue?

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 19, 2004 7:28 pm (#73 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
hem-hem twinkling blue eyes, thank you very much....

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Lunar Tides - Aug 19, 2004 8:33 pm (#74 of 476)

Hey, this is sort of random but:

I got this thought from Professor McGonagall (I think I spelled that wrong, I'm very lazy, sorry) -

If the man described is an Animagus, he'll have marks on his eyes that represent his glasses.

If I'm not wrong, I believe that McGonagall has marks on her eyes as a cat...

Just thought to mention this, :-p.

-Chanuel

EDIT: ...he'll have marks on his eyes that represent his glasses when he is in his Animagus form.

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Solitaire - Aug 19, 2004 8:37 pm (#75 of 476)

McGonagall's animagus form, a cat, has marks around its eyes that resemble her spectacles. Is that what you mean?

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Cezar Salem - Aug 19, 2004 8:42 pm (#76 of 476)

and so does Ritas for that matter...

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Lunar Tides - Aug 19, 2004 8:42 pm (#77 of 476)

Yes, I think thats what I exactly mean...

Those marks are her glasses right?

If they are, I'm just saying that the same would apply to the Mr. New Clue if he is in some sort of Animagus (probably a felinish type).

It's nothing really important, just fun facts. Smile

-Chanuel

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Amilia Smith - Aug 19, 2004 10:03 pm (#78 of 476)

Way back at the beginning of this thread, in a discussion of the resemblance of the new mystery person to Dumbledore, Solitaire asked, "BTW, have either of the brothers been married? Could one of them have a son?" Could this be the reason that the marital status of the teachers is restricted information? (2001 chat)

I don't think he is Crookshanks, as has been suggested, as JKR has said point blank that Crookshanks is not an animangus.

I am really hoping this is a description of the new DADA teacher, as he sounds like a good guy, and he sounds competant. I am really tired of incompetant DADA teachers, and Harry & co. need someone good at this point. However, all JKR has said about bad things on the horizon for Harry has me worried. Yet another nincompoop teacher to deal with would be just Harry's luck.

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Some Guy - Aug 19, 2004 10:19 pm (#79 of 476)

It is probably Godric from a painting. I highly doubt JKR would give that description to anyone other then Gryyfindor. Perhaps Harry discovers a room similar to the chamber of secrets, dedicated to Gryyfindor. That would be interesting.

Some of you have made excellent points about eye-glasses not existing at that time. I believe eye glasses first appeared in the 1200s. I could be wrong!

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riddikulus - Aug 19, 2004 11:41 pm (#80 of 476)

Edited by Aug 19, 2004 11:48 pm
If in fact the painting of DD in the COS movie (disk 2) is accurate at all... then DD and Aberforth are descendants of Gryffindor.

As important as Harry pulling that sword from the hat, it's important that he swore allegiance to DD, thus receiving the sword.

Edit: If anyone watches disk 2, will you please tell me who the wizard in the purple robe by SS is? Thanks.

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Siriusly - Aug 20, 2004 3:20 am (#81 of 476)

Maybe the guy who invented glasses was a Hogwarts student and got he idea from the founder......

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KWeldon - Aug 20, 2004 6:32 am (#82 of 476)

My guess is that the description is McLaggan, who will be teaching Harry Legilimency during the summer. Hopefully DD realized the error of his ways in selecting Snape to tutor Harry, and since DD doesn't seem to take a hand in teaching Harry magic (as opposed to life lessons at the end of the books), I wouldn't expect JKR to break the pattern now and have DD himself do it.

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Aurora Gubbins - Aug 20, 2004 7:12 am (#83 of 476)

Crookshanks is half Kneazle, but what makes up the other half? He could be half animagus! If this is the case, he could be the HBP. We know Crookshanks has yellow eyes, and in FB a kneazle is described as having a tail like a lion. We also know that Crookshanks is able to communicate, but we don't know how. Remember how he managed to help Sirius in POA? Crookshanks also has a slightly crooked way of walking. We'll have to wait and see...(not for too long now, I hope)

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Steve Newton - Aug 20, 2004 7:25 am (#84 of 476)

Librarian
"half animagus"? I don't see how that could be. It would seem to mean that when untransformed he was still half catlike. Yuck!

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Doris Crockford - Aug 20, 2004 10:47 am (#85 of 476)

I think the other half is just a cat, Aurora. (half cat, half kneazle). If he was half-animagus, he would be half wizard, half kneazle, and he looks too much like a cat for that

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Steve Newton - Aug 20, 2004 10:55 am (#86 of 476)

Librarian
But if he was only half animagus the other half would never transform.

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Star Crossed - Aug 20, 2004 11:12 am (#87 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I am almost positive JKR said that Crookshanks was not an animagus somewhere.

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Siriusly - Aug 20, 2004 11:14 am (#88 of 476)

Half animigus - now that is scary.

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Solitaire - Aug 20, 2004 11:31 am (#89 of 476)

JKR said that Crookshanks is not an animagus. I would assume that also means he is not half-animagus.

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Crisz - Aug 20, 2004 11:43 am (#90 of 476)

Every single time I read the quote, I always see Lupin.

However, I'll beat down my own theory to save all of you the trouble. Because we were already introduced to Lupin, why need another description? And his hair was never described as a mane nor did he look like an old lion.

Unless...maybe an old Lupin travels through time to help Harry out somewhere...

Hah! What an awful theory. But I don't see how it could be GG because, like stated earlier, he's dead...

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Chris. - Aug 20, 2004 11:45 am (#91 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Crisz, I was thinking it could be GG in the Pensieve or a portrait or someother means. I wouldn't think he would be alive.

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Solitaire - Aug 20, 2004 12:25 pm (#92 of 476)

Well, we already know we are going to have at least one new character, and we know his name, even if we don't yet know who he is and what his role will be. If you look at the Mugglenet page of Facts about Book 6 you will see that there will be a new Minister of Magic ... no more Fudge. Possibly McLaggan is the new Minister.

Unless Dumbledore himself takes over DADA, Hogwarts will need someone to fill that position. Even if he puts Snape there, a vacancy will exist that must be filled by someone, either already known to us or brand new. McLaggan could possibly be the new DADA teacher.

Since we are going to be getting some backstory in books 6 and 7, there are bound to be flashbacks--either personal reminiscences, peeks into Pensieves, or history lessons--to past periods in the history of both Hogwarts and the WW at large. Perhaps McLaggan is a character from the past (GG?) revealed in a flashback.

The leonine description could refer to the McLaggan character, whoever he may be, to any of the above new characters, or it could refer to someone completely different--a teacher, a parent, Godric Gryffindor, or really anyone else--couldn't it?

Solitaire

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Some Guy - Aug 20, 2004 1:05 pm (#93 of 476)

Riddikulus, speaking of COS ...

Have you ever noticed the statue at the beginning of the cup cake scene with Crab and Goyle? The statue depicts a wizard holding Hogwarts in one hand, a scroll in the other, and at the base of his feet are two lions. The statue looks remarkably like Dumbledore from the painting in his office. I am POSITIVE that this statue is, in fact, Godric. It would make scene that Gryyfindor built Hogwarts. Transfiguration seems to be a specialty of Gryyfindor. Dumbledore was the former Transfiguration teacher after all and is very accomplished (DD duel with LV)

Riddiculus, I think the witch in the purple robe is Professor Vector. In one of the novels they speak about her in more detail. Ron says she is a witch and I believe she has appeared in every movie as a very minor character.

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riddikulus - Aug 20, 2004 1:39 pm (#94 of 476)

Thank you SG for answering, but I must shoot that down because the painting of the wizard in purple, is just that... a wizard. A man. I appreciate your help though. It's not in the movie, but disk 2, in DDs office, near SSs portrait. Yes, I did notice that statue. It's quite interesting and you may be right. I can't help thinking, even more interesting is what I'm pointing out, about DDs "freshly painted" portrait, hanging near GGs portrait on disk 2.

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Siriusly - Aug 20, 2004 2:11 pm (#95 of 476)

Did ou notice the portraits look very similar to each other? They did to me anyway. Hauntingly so (hee hee).

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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 2:53 pm (#96 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
OK Sorry if I'm back tracking here but I've just read all 90 something posts on this thread and I wanted to clear something up. Somewhere around 50 something it talks about the description being of GG and I do agree with that but it goes on to say that we could possibly see him in the pensive or as a ghost. I am a big believer that we will see more of the pensive because we are supposed to get quite alot of back round from Harry's parents and their friends but this theory of the ghost doesn't seem likely because GG doesn't seem the type to be afraid of death. Meaning he wouldn't chose to leave an imprint of himself in the world. Plus we wouldn't see a ghost in color. Even the Bloody Barons blood covered robes are silver. Now I do think that the description is possibly the heir of GG.

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Veritaserum - Aug 20, 2004 3:30 pm (#97 of 476)

Go Jays!
I don't really have a reason, but I immediately got the feeling that this character was a) a good guy and b) alive. (aka, he is exactly as we see him here) He seems to be in some kind of physical contact with Harry. My vote goes to the DADA teacher, but I do think the lion reference is more than just coincidence. The glasses certainly suggest someone modern to me, it's too much of a technicality to say that GG lived to be super-old just so he could have glasses.

Also, McLaggan can definitely be a major new character. She could've just had a placeholder name in there, like John Smith until she found just the right one. Or maybe McLaggan was just so fabulous she decided to change it on the spot. McLaggan would mean "son of Laggan," no? So what does Laggan mean?

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Star Crossed - Aug 20, 2004 3:33 pm (#98 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
How could we see GG in a pensieve? I doubt they were invented back then, plus, it'd be tattered and broken until it was passed to Harry's generation.

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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 3:37 pm (#99 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
I've been thinkning of that same thing but what's even more intresting is who would have the memories to put in the pensive. But other than that how can we really revisit the past? Even if we don't see GG in the past and the discription is of his heir we do see alot of Lily, James, Sirius, Lupin, etc........ So chances are that we will be seeing the pensive in book 6.

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Madame Librarian - Aug 20, 2004 3:47 pm (#100 of 476)

Pensieves could have been around for as long as Wizards for all we know. It's just as "techie" as a broom, a wand, a super-sword, or anything else in the Wizarding World. We just don't know. It may seem like a "modern" device to us, but remember, this is a magical world.

Ciao. Barb

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 101 to 150)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:37 am

Solitaire - Aug 20, 2004 4:04 pm (#101 of 476)
I don't think it's a far reach to believe Pensieves were around or maybe invented back in GG's time. And I don't see a Pensieve as modern, with ancient runes around the rim. Modern or techie would be seeing these things on a computer or TV screen, IMO. The Pensieve seems much older and more "timeless" to me.

Lady Black, I don't think we have seen the last of Pensieves, either. They are far too fascinating.

Solitaire

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Nymphadora - Aug 20, 2004 4:09 pm (#102 of 476)

Edited by Aug 20, 2004 4:10 pm
Actually, the Pensieve seems a very ancient magic gadget to me... I don't know why, but what with the inscribed runes and how it stores memory and all that, I think it is a device that not many wizards can use (let alone find/buy). We have yet to see a shop in the Diagon Alley or Hogsmeade that sells Pensieves... I'd say Dumbledore's would be a heirloom or custom made.

But still, they are not used for long-term memory storage, right? More like short-memory live sketchpads and query databases, if I'm permitted the mundane comparisons.

To get back on topic, no, I don't think the guy is someone's memory, but a character Harry meets. Maybe it is indeed McClaggan (it's with a C, really!) So, I looked Claggan up, which appears to be a park in the Scottish Highlands, and used to be a schooner...

But I think it's the sound of the name that appealed to our dear Jo, and it's oddly appealing to me as well, like merry bells sounding over a glen or something. Nice, not harsh sound, although there is a word in greek (clagg'e) that means the sound of battle, more specifically of swords clashing... however, McClaggan overall doesn't sound Death Eaterish. (if it belongs to a DE, I'll be mortified!!)

We still don't know, though, who the snippet guy is. The lion imagery might well make the students believe he's Gryffindor's heir or something, and he might be proud of it and assume the Prince title, only for us to find out he's a fraud in the end... can't put Lockhart out of my mind!!!

There, I think I rambled quite a bit Smile

Edit: Solitaire posted while I was typing, and she's expressing exactly my impression of Pensieves! Yay Solitaire!!

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 4:33 pm (#103 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Ok, someone help me out here. Where did I get the firm idea that pensieves are rare? It seems like not only one of those things I feel, but saw in black and white...

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Madame Librarian - Aug 20, 2004 4:49 pm (#104 of 476)

Is it because DD lent his to Snape? That made me think they are one-of-a-kind or rare.

Ciao. Barb

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 4:52 pm (#105 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
That and the fact I am sure I read it somewhere. Where is beyond me right now. Maybe it will come to me...

Grabs a butterbeer and heads off to the lost recesses of this computer...

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Nymphadora - Aug 20, 2004 4:59 pm (#106 of 476)

Well, Twinks, if you're into fanfic, I've read it in quite some stories. Smile However, I did have the notion as soon as Harry first described it in GoF.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 5:17 pm (#107 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
No, fanfic is not my thing at all...I know something made me make the connection, but what, where?

I know I'll ferret it out somewhere, I hope!

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Solitaire - Aug 20, 2004 5:52 pm (#108 of 476)

Nymphadora, I reread the section "around" the prophecy last night, and saw that Dumbledore was not storing it in his Pensieve, as I'd feared. He took it out of his head at that time and put it into the Pensieve so that Harry could see it as he had heard it. So I think you are on the track when you say they are not for long-term storage.

The Pensieve makes me think very much of what we are doing here: putting our ideas in a form in front of us so that we can examine them more objectively. The Pensieve appears to allow an individual to take a memory out of its emotional context and look at it strictly for the factual evidence. Actually, I think some of us have mentioned before how emotions can "tinge" or taint the way we remember certain events in our lives.

Given Dumbledore's position of importance and respect in the Wizarding World--not to mention the many trials and hearings he has heard with regard to Voldemort and DEs--I can imagine that he has seen and heard so much that memories connected to general events probably tend to run together in a big blur. The Pensieve allows him to isolate certain memories and view them for specifics.

Sorry to ramble about the Pensieve here. I probably should have put this on that thread--except that it was a response to something above.

Solitaire

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Land of the Shire - Aug 20, 2004 7:46 pm (#109 of 476)

Ann writes: I thought Gryffindor, too, because of all the lion references, perhaps as seen in a portrait or some other form. But then, thanks to Madame Librarian's new thread on eyes and glasses, I thought glasses, and it occurred to me that no one in the 11th century (or whenever Gryffindor is supposed to have lived, "a thousand years ago") wore glasses. I don't think they were invented until the 15th or 16th century at the earliest.

I'm pretty sure that at some point I read that the Greeks first discovered that curved glass could make images larger and/or clearer. It's entirely possible that the wizarding community picked up on this and did something with it before the world at large.

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Nymphadora - Aug 20, 2004 8:24 pm (#110 of 476)

Indeed,Land of the Shire, Archimedes first studied the kurtosis of a lens, as well as reflection in a mirror, c.350 BC in Syracuse. But we don't have any history of spectacles; just magnifying glasses. The concept of spectacles was conceived in Italy much later.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 20, 2004 8:51 pm (#111 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I hate to throw a kink in here, but we all know JKR is not good in "maths". Is there really a point to when 'spectacles" were developed, or more to the point as mentionened in other threads, how JKR uses these devices?

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Ann - Aug 20, 2004 10:44 pm (#112 of 476)

That's not actually maths so much as history--the idea of William the Conqueror (who would have been a contemporary of Gryffindor's) wearing glasses is just a little odd. I know some authors have given glasses to Merlin, but I found that odd, too.

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The One - Aug 21, 2004 4:38 am (#113 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
That's not actually maths so much as history.

That's true, but going from "more than 1000 years ago" to when this hapened is math. Of course, even JKR knows that 1000 years ago is year 1004, but it is quite in her style to have "1000 years ago" just mean a long time a go, not caring to much for the details.

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The One - Aug 21, 2004 4:41 am (#114 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
Of course, it might just be Tonks taking up her DADA post, using her first lesson to teach her students that not everything is what it looks like...

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Magical Max - Aug 21, 2004 6:33 am (#115 of 476)

What if GG built his own secret chamber under Hogwarts and sealed himself up in it - in a state of suspended amnimation - until he is awoken by Harry or DD. Assuming GG could divine the future enough to see that a descendant of SS would threaten the WW with destruction and the only thing to do was to go into stasis, awake centuries later and help stop the evil menace.

What if this tibit from JKR describes the scene just after Harry discovers GG's chamber and breaks the spell to reawaken him.

Ok the glasses thing may be a problem to some, but this is fantasy fiction. We don't need a detailed explantion on how a watch works and its exact relevance in history - we just need JKR to tell us the time and get on with the story.

Name me one author who agonises over historical accuracy getting in the road of a good storyline.

Lighten up people! If we can have a villain come back from the dead, we can certainly fudge an explanation as to how wizards had glasses long before muggles did.

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The One - Aug 21, 2004 6:41 am (#116 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
You have got a point there. It is a little strange to accept the possibility that GG might in some strange way still be alive, but then discard the idea because he could not possibly wear glasses..

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Madame Librarian - Aug 21, 2004 6:50 am (#117 of 476)

I'm worried that if GG could suddenly come back from the supposed dead, a can of worms would be opened about Sirius, not to mention James and Lily. JKR has been very clear that magic cannot bring the dead back to life. Now, magic to seek immortality before one has died (as what Tom Riddle seeks) is technically different, but that concept dances on the edge a bit, I think. To have another character pull a similar stunt, is fishy and makes me uncomfortable.

Then again, we have that whole trip to Egypt and other references to Egyptian magic. Ancient Egypt is one of those places that make us think search for immortality, suspended animation (as in pyramids, mummies, embalming) etc., so JKR might be preparing us to accept something like that. Still, she'd have to be extrememly agile to pull it off. Well, she is, so what am I worried about? (*sigh*)

Ciao. Barb

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The One - Aug 21, 2004 7:03 am (#118 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
I'm worried that if GG could suddenly come back from the supposed dead, a can of worms would be opened about Sirius, not to mention James and Lily.

I agree. And I also believe that our heros will have to fight it out themselves. To me summoning a 1000 year old ghost of some sort to save the day seems a bit like cheating.

I do not expect to see neither GG himself or any heir of him at all in the books. I nevertheless is a little amused if the glasses should be the most important reason to doubt the theory.

The One

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Boris the Bewildered - Aug 21, 2004 7:15 am (#119 of 476)

Absolutely right, Madam Librarian. Not only would that strech believability but it would at odds with the book's theme: "There are things worse than death" makes me remember Nicholas Flamel who was convinced by DD to set his affairs in order, destroy the stone and peacefully prepare for his own end. In the chat JKR is asked about a deceased character (regukus?0 and her answer is: "he is dead, so he's been pretty quiet lately" Nearly Headless Nick is a ghost because he feared death. GG, like Sirius would be properly gone...

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Kwikspell - Aug 21, 2004 7:24 am (#120 of 476)

Marketers? Bah!
Normally, I try to stay away from "I totally agree" posts, but I have to break with tradition and say "Good on ya, Barb!" The idea that Sirius, or anybody could "come back" really bothers me because it sends the wrong message about the permanence of death. JKR went through the death of her mother at an early age and I think she wants to be completely honest to her readers about how harrowing an experience it is.

I don't think Voldemort is necessarily a break from this theme because 1) he never really died and 2) I personally believe that whatever he did to protect himself from death made him...not really living in the first place.

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Siriusly - Aug 21, 2004 10:40 am (#121 of 476)

I think it depends on what or who you were before you died.

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Solitaire - Aug 21, 2004 1:45 pm (#122 of 476)

Kwikspell, I think you nailed it right here in this comment about Voldemort: whatever he did to protect himself from death made him...not really living in the first place.

It may go back farther than this--to the original transformations he performed on himself before he killed the Potters and tried to kill Harry--but it at least goes back to the first book. The night Harry did his detention in the forest he met Firenze, who told him the following about slaying a unicorn and drinking its blood to stay alive: Only one who has nothing to lose and everything to gain would commit such a crime. ... you will have but a half-life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.

Firenze also says of one who slays a unicorn, You have slain something pure and defenseless to save yourself. This sounds rather like Voldemort attempting to kill Harry. He tried to slay something pure and defenseless--a baby--in an attempt to preserve his own life.

Voldemort may be back in a new body now, but he still has the curse of the murder of the unicorn--and the attempted murder of a defenseless baby--upon him. This would seem to join Harry and the unicorn symbolically in the curse upon Voldemort. I believe that cursed life will be in effect until he is vanquished. Just my 2 knuts ... and I hope it makes sense to someone.

Solitaire

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Jessalynn Quirky - Aug 21, 2004 2:10 pm (#123 of 476)

WHO IS ABERFORTH?!?!

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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 21, 2004 2:18 pm (#124 of 476)

Jessalynn Quirky, Aberforth is the brother of Albus Dumbledore. He is the barman at the Hog's Head.

Best Regards, Nathan

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lupin's daughter - Aug 21, 2004 2:43 pm (#125 of 476)

Jessalynn Quirky, great pic!!!!!!!!!!

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weasley by nature - Aug 21, 2004 5:07 pm (#126 of 476)

Wow there's been a lot of posts recently, this one is referring all the way back in time to post 72&73 which was actually only 2 days ago...

S.E. Jones, it's a thought, Aberforth could've had tawny hair when he was younger etc. But the current Aberforth doesn't have yellow eyes, glasses or a limp that we know of so I don't see why the past Aberforth would. Also, the pensieve is used to provide backstory like the others were saying and I don't see the need to use it for Aberforth. Since both he and his brother are still alive Harry could find everything he needs to know about Aberforth through them. But I have no original ideas as to who it could be and I guess it is possible.

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Madame Kulich - Aug 21, 2004 5:13 pm (#127 of 476)

Could Voldemort, after he heard part of the original prophesy from the person who overheard it in the Hogs Head, took measures to protect himself from death just from the person who could vanquish him? Meaning, he could have heard the prophecy and heard that the one approaches could vanquish him and did some magic to perhaps bind himself with the one who could vanquish him - which would fulfill the end of the prophecy (one cannot live while the other survives - the part he didn't hear - which would mean that he made the prophecy come true without even hearing it). What I am saying is, he heard the part of the prophecy and then binded himself with Harry before even trying to kill him. And so Harry and Voldemort are binded by Voldemorts magic? Crazy, maybe, but just a thought

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weasley by nature - Aug 21, 2004 6:07 pm (#128 of 476)

Err sorry I don't get it. What does that have to do with the new person we got a clue about?

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S.E. Jones - Aug 21, 2004 6:17 pm (#129 of 476)

Let it snow!
weasley by nature: S.E. Jones, it's a thought, Aberforth could've had tawny hair when he was younger etc. But the current Aberforth doesn't have yellow eyes, glasses or a limp that we know of so I don't see why the past Aberforth would.

That we know of, yes, but we don't really know much about him other than he has a grey beard, looks grumpy while tending bar, and was vaguely familiar to Harry. He could've had glasses, or could've not been wearing them that day. Or, he could not need glasses at all. We don't know what color his eyes are, as far as I know, or whether he walks with a limp. It's still conjecture at this point. But I don't think we have enough to rule Aberforth out.

Also, the pensieve is used to provide backstory like the others were saying and I don't see the need to use it for Aberforth. Since both he and his brother are still alive Harry could find everything he needs to know about Aberforth through them.

Snape is also alive, as is Moody, and Ludo, and was Barty Sr and Jr in GoF, however, JKR used the Pensieve to give us backstory on them. The Pensieve just allows Harry (and, via Harry, us) to experience something first hand rather than through someone else's reminiscing. Why tell us what happened back when Aberforth was 70 when she could show us....

That said, I'm still keeping my options open at this point.....

EDIT: My brother asked what people thought the chances are of the person being Dumbledore's (Albus or Aberforth's) son or a teacher's spouse....

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Madame Kulich - Aug 21, 2004 6:31 pm (#130 of 476)

It doesn't. So sorry. I was just reflecting off of past posts relating to the prophecy on here. Gees.

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Solitaire - Aug 21, 2004 6:39 pm (#131 of 476)

Dalus, I think Harry and Voldemort ARE bound together through Voldemort's curse, but I don't think it was intentional. The things we have heard him say to Harry make it pretty clear that he intended Harry to die that night.

In CoS, Tom Riddle says the following: "Twice--in your past, in my future--we have met. And twice I failed to kill you. How did you survive? Tell me everything .." He did not understand the real reason Harry survived.

There are several posts that trace this idea on the Dumbledore's spell and Voldemorts shield thread, starting around post #11 or 12 and covering about six posts. I think a couple of these link to other posts and threads, as well, where this is discussed in more depth. You might want to check them out. Smile

Solitaire

BTW, I once knew someone with the same last name as yours. He was from WI.

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Madame Kulich - Aug 21, 2004 6:47 pm (#132 of 476)

Very cool! I don't know if he is related. It is my husband's name and we live in Illinois. But very cool though. As for my post, I noticed that it was on the wrong thread, so I posted somewhere else as well. I will check out those threads! This website is fantastic. I have so many ideas and so do many others. You, by the way, I read anytime I see your avatar in the long list of posts, and I make a point to read them. Very insightful. Thanks!

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Chemyst - Aug 21, 2004 6:51 pm (#133 of 476)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
TBE - the fact I am sure I read it somewhere. Where is beyond me right now. Maybe it will come to me...
Did you lurk here before becoming a member? You could have read it in one of the old threads before mulching. Pensieve is always capitalized in the Scholastic editions; in American English it's a proper noun naming a specific item. Most often it is paired with the article "the" while "a" was used only once or twice. Another Pensieve thread has been started recently, so I'll stop with those points, but it seems unlikely that Godric could appear in the Pensieve if no one is alive who remembers him.

I was wondering if the loping gait, tawny mane, and yellow-eyed man could be related to Hagrid, or more specifically, Gwarp. He seems like he could be a "gentle" giant. Do giants ever wear glasses?

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riddikulus - Aug 21, 2004 8:07 pm (#134 of 476)

Like S.E. I always keep my options open till there's fact, but my first thought was Aberforth and I haven't ruled out any reason why it's not him, as yet. As for the description... we don't know enough about him.... we don't know if one of the goats kicked him and hurt his leg... we don't know if he wears glasses, like his brother, etc. I just think that given the lion description she's posted, it would seem likely that this would be either a Gryffindor heir or the like and he's as good as any candidate for that.

Also, JR might be giving us throw away text, just to keep us busy doing this kind of thing, to keep our minds preoccupied, as she's finishing up. The clue could be nothing at all or a passing memory of someone like GG in the Pensieve. None the less...

Oh, and I'm going to shoot down your Grawp idea... I just can't see a giant with specs.

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Celestina W. - Aug 21, 2004 8:30 pm (#135 of 476)

Go Minnesota Twins!
Edited by Aug 21, 2004 8:31 pm
The three vibes I got when reading the clue were (a) a Gryffindor connection, (b) a Lupin connection, and (c) a Weasley connection.

(a) I'm sure this was because of the lion reference. I really doubt this is a description of Godric Gryffindor himself, and I don't believe there is an Heir of Gryffindor, but I could be wrong.

(b) I don't think this is a description of Remus; it just reminded me of him somehow. Maybe it was the hair streaked with grey bit.

(c) It made me think "Weasley", and I'm not sure why. Tawny hair might be kind of close to red, but not that close, is it? It might have been the glasses, too. JKR said (I believe it's on her website) that Arthur has brothers. Could this be one of them? Not much evidence, I know, but I like the idea.

I don't think this is McClaggan. I doubt JKR would mention the name of a new character and give us a description of him this early. It seems like more information than she typically gives out. I also have a sneaking feeling that this clue is just describing some old guy Harry passes on the street and then we never see him again. But she wouldn't be that mean to us, would she? Anyway, the description is pretty detailed, it's got to be a fairly important character. I do think this person might be new DADA teacher.

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Chemyst - Aug 21, 2004 10:07 pm (#136 of 476)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I just can't see a giant with specs. - Riddikulus *passes Riddikulus the lens cleaner* This may help. Or perhaps you could switch to contacts.

Ah well, I don't normally imagine giants as wearing opal necklaces either, yet Madame Maxime did.

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riddikulus - Aug 21, 2004 10:46 pm (#137 of 476)

I don't wear glasses, but perhaps I should...

I wasn't thinking of half-giants... I was thinking of giants like Grawp. If you're suggesting that Hagrids mother had another relationship with another wizard after Hagrids father, thus producing another half-giant like Hagrid or Madame Maxime... then I'd agree with you, there. I could "envision" that.

But again, I don't see giants, even a smaller one like Grawp sporting specs. Actually, if you look at the picture of Grawp laying on the forest floor tied up, you'll see he's not even sporting clothes... .

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Warty Harris - Aug 21, 2004 11:09 pm (#138 of 476)

I watched disc two and this is amazing. I think the regal looking wizard whose portrait is above Dumbledore's is a very likey candidate for the Half Blood Prince. Good catch Riddikulus. I would have never found that. I have browsed through the office before but didn't even know you could Wingardium Leviosa to the portraits. How neat that is.

I think the portrait is indicating an actual prince because he has a crown around his steeple hat. I do not know if he is a prince from the wizarding world or from the muggle world. He is wearing a red robe and a yellow shirt. I think this is the same wizard as the wizard statue in the movie. This statue shows a wizard with a scale size Hogwarts in one hand and architecture tools and blue prints in the other hand. At his feet are the four animals that symbolize the houses, the lion, the snake, the eagle and the badger

Earlier in the tour of the portraits they show Salazar Slytherin! There is a good chance that Godric Gryffindor's portrait is up on the wall as well. If the portrait is Godric Gryffindor then he may be the Half Blood Prince.

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riddikulus - Aug 21, 2004 11:23 pm (#139 of 476)

Edited by Aug 21, 2004 11:24 pm
Hey Warty, thanks. Smile Actually, I always thought the portrait was GG himself...because he was in a red robe, as the portrait of SS is in a green robe. I really want to know who the wizard in purple is! But you may be right...

I was actually thinking about Aberforth. Perhaps like the Patil sisters, Aberforth wasn't placed in Gryffindor by the Sorting hat... maybe he was in a different house (yes, odd for an heir). As DD says, its not about destiny, but about choices. (Discovery in chamber) Maybe he wanted separation from his destiny/his brother.

Why do you suppose there's bad blood between DD and Aberforth? If they were on friendly, speaking terms... it would have been he who told DD about the DA starting up, as it could be overheard and seen in the Hogs head that day. Also, the way DD first tells Harry about his brother... it just seems likes there's bad blood there. I could be wrong, but there's something odd about their relationship.

So you suppose Aberforth, like a lot of brothers, tried to compete with DD and lost by far, on skill. Do you suppose the experimenting with goats was trying to find uses for dragons blood, but couldn't? Or something like that. The jealousy (like Petunia has for Lily) made Aberforth choose a road that led him to things that we'll come to find out, soon.

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Solitaire - Aug 21, 2004 11:34 pm (#140 of 476)

Do we really know for certain that there is "bad blood" between Dumbledore and Aberforth? It is possible to not be particularly close to a sib and still not feel anything bad toward him or her. I know from personal experience.

The Lexicon info says Aberforth is a member of the Order of the Phoenix, although it does not specify what he does for them. Perhaps it is easier for Aberforth to "get the lowdown" on shady characters if he is not known to be so tight with his brother. Just a thought ...

Solitaire

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Warty Harris - Aug 22, 2004 12:17 am (#141 of 476)

Phineas Nigellus could be the wizard in the purple robes. Back to the regal looking wizard, he even looks like he could be an ancestor of either Dumbledore or Harry Potter. You are right Riddikulus that it is foreboding about the portrait of Dumbledore(it is almost as if he was alive ).

I think that Albus indicates that Aberforth is a little out there. I do not think there is bad blood just a difference in the way they lead their lives. Aberforth is a barkeep at an old unkept bar and Albus is headmaster at the premiere school for young witches and wizards. There may be more to the story but I think he loves his brother...they are just different.

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riddikulus - Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am (#142 of 476)

Warty, Interesting ... Phineas? To me, with the Hogwarts shield on the painting, I assumed he'd be a more important wizard...someone who left more of a lasting impression on the school, as Phineas wasn't a well liked headmaster... but you may be right.

YES, Warty, isn't it interesting they'd go to the effort to say "freshly painted" and "almost alive" etc. describing this portrait? It could be nothing at all... but if there are things "worse than death" and if he can apparate and disapparate in a school where you can't do that (like when he left his office after the incident with Fudge, just as Fawkes does) it got me thinking... maybe DD did something to preserve his life, like use Fawkes in some way and they're more similar than we realize. Maybe his healing powers are like Fawkes' and maybe he can be reborn, in a sense, as well. If they can make a stone that can do that, why not use something else? Maybe he's not as alive as we think. Although, Harry stays alive because of Fawkes, so i'm not suggesting that Fawkes is keeping him alive, i'm saying that he's possibly gone to greater lengths to preserve his life, using Fawkes.

As for "bad blood" Solitaire and Warty, I was trying to give a long explanation of my thoughts on the subject and used that term. You're right, it's probably a bit harsh... but overlook that term and at the heart are the issues between the brothers.

DD forgives so much, he's such a wise and loving man... you'd have to wonder why he and his brother have this sort of relationship? It could all be a rouse, to get Aberforth closer to his clientele, but it may be more... it may be a situation of Aberforth deliberately making choices that led him to the life he knows now, possibly derived from Aberforths pain in being in DDs shadow or the such.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 22, 2004 8:56 am (#143 of 476)

Let it snow!
Purple. Hm, interesting. A combination of red and blue.

You know, I always found the griffin on Dumbledore's office dore interesting. Mainly, I guess, because a griffin is a combination of an eagle and a lion, two of the school mascots....

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Star Crossed - Aug 22, 2004 12:14 pm (#144 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I find it interesting because it's a griffin on a door (Gryffindor)

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 22, 2004 12:34 pm (#145 of 476)

I've stayed out of the Gryffindor with spectacles discussion, because I didn't think it possible... but someone suggested he could be in suspended animation somewhere... do you think JK could've borrowed a concept from The Once and Future King? Maybe GG, like Merlin, lives backwards through time, so he could've had something anachronistic like glasses. Maybe an evil wizard or witch put him to sleep in an oak tree....

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Veritaserum - Aug 22, 2004 6:08 pm (#146 of 476)

Go Jays!
So far, the only character to have any kind of immortality/rebirth thing going on is Voldemort. It seems kind of hypocritical of DD, or GG or whoever, to have some kind of anti-dying spell on them. Especially after DD's "there are worst things than death" speech. The good guys aren't afraid of death, like cowardly dark wizards are. Except maybe it's a spell that doesn't bring someone back to life, but somehow brings that person's powers back.

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Warty Harris - Aug 22, 2004 6:31 pm (#147 of 476)

There are other ways to talk to people from the past except it wouldn't really be them.....

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riddikulus - Aug 22, 2004 7:49 pm (#148 of 476)

I'm sorry, I don't know many people who aren't afraid of death, good guy or bad guy. And even those who aren't fearful of it, aren't exactly doing things to excel the process of getting there quicker. Voldy deemed himself Lord and wants to remain ruler of all. Flamel had the stone, that prolonged his life... who knows what other wizards do or use, to do the same. But if DD is about 150 years old and his teacher is still alive... we can assume, they're doing something. Look at the bell jar in the MOM, for instance. Anyway, it's not the death part of DDs speech, it's the things are worse than, part, that's the bigger issue.

Warty, yes, there are. And we can assume that Harry will be able to do just that with his previously unused mirror from Sirius, soon.

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Maarcus Humill - Aug 22, 2004 9:06 pm (#149 of 476)

I think it's the new DADA teacher who incidentally happens to be a direct descendant of Godric Gryffindor. Also he is the HBP but he does not know it. Some thing will happen with Voldemort or Harry or somebody and it is revealed to him that he is the HBP.

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JK Powers - Aug 22, 2004 10:16 pm (#150 of 476)

no relation
Personally, I felt it was a description of character we already have met, but younger. It felt more like a reminder than an introduction.

I also thought of the fact that there were clues and correlations between book six and two, that Harry could again bear witness to past events, ala the diary or pensive.

I also thought of Dumbledore and Moody, but after reading everyone's theories, I am again bewildered as to who it might be.

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 151 to 200)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:40 am

Madame Kulich - Aug 22, 2004 11:50 pm (#151 of 476)
I think the new clue is referring to Dumbledore a long time ago. I think the slight limp is due to a recent injury - one that will later cause a scar (shape of the London underground?). What does everyone think of this?

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Chemyst - Aug 23, 2004 6:22 am (#152 of 476)

"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...one that will later cause a scar (shape of the London underground?). What does everyone think of this? I think it could be one of the better theories except it needs an even better explanation of how to make the yellowish eyes blue. Add that and I'll really like it.

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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 23, 2004 8:58 am (#153 of 476)

Dumbledore is a metamorphmagus? Even if he isn't, Tonks said Harry would just have to "learn the hard way" to change his appearance. Dumbledore can also make himself invisible without a cloak. I don't think the clue is about Dumbledore, but those are just some examples of how he could have looked different.

I can see a person being described as though Harry doesn't know them, and then, all of a sudden, Harry recognizes the person. It also kind of reminded me of the introduction of Moody (the wording of the description, not the description itself). He must be walking somewhere, so it can't be a new teacher sitting at the staff table. If it's going to be the new teacher, that teacher must arrive late or something like Moody did.

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riddikulus - Aug 23, 2004 10:25 am (#154 of 476)

Interesting Dalus, I can't help but go back to when JKR described a younger DD with Auburn hair, not tawny, though. This is why I think it's someone related to who we see in DD... someone like Aberforth.

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therealscabbers - Aug 23, 2004 10:52 am (#155 of 476)

Petra t
Well lets see, this guy has a limp - the only other person with a physical deformity is moody which makes me think this guy has seen some action, may be an aruror

the Yellow eyes for some reason make me think of kidney failure!! Maybe Aberforth trying too much of his goods!!!

Also the Lion refereance makes me think a relation to GG

Don't think it is GG but maybe his heir? who has been in the wars before? but if he was in the order we would have heard about him in Moody's picture, even if he was missing from the pic think Moody would have mentioned him? the Question is was he around the before Harry and voldy came face to face the first time? if not why not?

hmmm

Part of me agrees with the theory that this is a description of a passer by that JK has given us to wind us all up!! on first read of the book we will recognise the excerpt and get all excited thinking we have met the HBP only to have him leaver the shop/bus never to be seen again!!! after all we have all seen her sense of humor!

All I can say is "Hi Jo have fun reading our random thoughts" lol

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The One - Aug 23, 2004 1:42 pm (#156 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
Part of me agrees with the theory that this is a description of a passer by that JK has given us to wind us all up!!

I repeat: It is Tonks. :-)

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KWeldon - Aug 23, 2004 4:24 pm (#157 of 476)

To me, the description feels like it is of someone new. It seems too detailed to be someone we have already met before, IMHO. And, I think it would be fitting to mention a new character in a chat only to soon thereafter provide a one sentence description of him.

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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 4:29 pm (#158 of 476)

I do not not who the Half Blood Prince is or who this new clue is talking about but I would encourage all to view the extra DVD that came with the movie Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. You will want to go to behind Hogwarts and then too Dumbledore's office. There is a painting there that is very interesting.

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librarian314 - Aug 23, 2004 6:06 pm (#159 of 476)

Hey all!

Back from vacation and it seems a lot happened whilst I was gone!

You’ll have to plop me in the camp who thinks this is the new DADA teacher. It was the very first coherent thought I had after reading the clue. (I thought the puzzles to get in were exceedingly difficult. For a woman who doesn’t do math, there were certainly a lot of numbers involved :-) )

Harry could easily meet this person outside of Hogwarts as he has every other DADA teacher except faux Moody. Perhaps he’s an Order of the Phoenix member and stops by Grimmauld Place.

Besides it’s too clear of a description for a person who has no bearing whatsoever on the plot. We have hair color and style (a mane suggests to me, at least collar length, full hair), eye color, and numerous physical attributes (bushy eyebrows, tall and slender (rangy is an adjective used to describe someone who is tall and thin and having long slender limbs (from Dictionary.com)), graceful, and a limp. It paints quite a complete picture in my head of how he looks. That’s a lot of info for someone who just wanders by.

I could be wooed into the camp that says it’s a more coherent description of Remus Lupin. I’ve combed PoA (haven’t had a chance to pour over OotP as it came whilst I was on holiday) for concrete descriptions of him and they are sketchy at best. They list his hair color, light brown with flecks of grey, his stature, tall and thin, and the effects that being an unemployed werewolf have had on him. (Youthful face, with fine lines, shabby robes, pale, looks like one good hex would finish him, underfed.) I have not found any mention at all about our favorite werewolf’s eye color. (I’ve looked really hard.)

Tawny, at Dictionary.com is defined as being a light brown to brownish orange or of a dull yellowish brown color, like things tanned, or persons who are sunburnt; as, tawny Moor or Spaniard; the tawny lion. I think of the fur of a lion when I think of tawny. Thus I think it leaves out those that have ever been described as having red hair (I include in this the shades of red like auburn, strawberry blonde, etc.)

I think it’s a good guy, because the adjectives JKR chose to use are too positive sounding. He sounds like someone I’d want to meet. He’s graceful and intelligent (keen eyes) and has nice hair. He’s not terribly dangerous as he’s got glasses. That doesn’t mean he isn’t formidable, just that he isn’t evil (The only people JKR has given glasses to have been good guys (Harry are Dumbledore are the two I remember off the top of my head. Are there others I’m forgetting?).

When describing people she wants us to view negatively, she uses adjectives with negative connotations. I remember when reading the description of Gilderoy, even though he was supposed to be handsome; I knew he was simpering fool right off the bat.

Anyways, that’s at least a handful of knut’s worth.
Take care!
*michelle the librarian**

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Madame Librarian - Aug 23, 2004 6:24 pm (#160 of 476)

Percy wears glasses, I think, but who knows whether he's good or evil.

Ciao. Barb

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Star Crossed - Aug 23, 2004 6:26 pm (#161 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So does Rita Skeeter

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Veritaserum - Aug 23, 2004 6:51 pm (#162 of 476)

Go Jays!
A new thought: Maybe it's an order member that we've heard of but haven't met yet. Are there any members Harry's never seen that are alive? I don't feel like looking it up. Perhaps it's Caradoc Dearborn. Or that guy they only found "bits" of. We all know what happened the last time they found bits (as in fingers) of someone.

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Siriusly - Aug 23, 2004 7:09 pm (#163 of 476)

You know who has yellow eyes, is described as having parts of a lion and is a half blood?

Crookshanks!

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S.E. Jones - Aug 23, 2004 8:23 pm (#164 of 476)

Let it snow!
Madam Hooch also has yellow eyes, though I don't know how that might help....

The description could be a second description. We had a description of Moody when he entered the Great Hall and then a second description, complete with more detail, during the first DADA class. Maybe that's what this is, a second meeting following an introduction to the character....

Could "yellow eyes" actually be hazel eyes? Hazel eyes are both brown and green (with a little blue on occasion), depending on lighting, clothing being worn, etc. Does anyone have or know someone with hazel eyes that might appear yellow?

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 23, 2004 9:04 pm (#165 of 476)

I think, when JK says yellow eyes, she means yellow eyes. Harry's and his mother's are green. Not hazel, not blue, but green. If the singing valentine described Harry's eyes as "green as a pickled toad," then they must be very definitely green. Likewise, I think this character has definite, full-time yellow eyes. And I don't think she'd describe anyone in such minute detail if we'd already been introduced to them.

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riddikulus - Aug 23, 2004 9:13 pm (#166 of 476)

Edited by Aug 23, 2004 9:18 pm
Actually, she says, " He had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles." She says yellowish.

Edit: since there was time, I wanted to add this here: When opening the safe to get our clue... there are gum wrappers and a balled up paper in the drawer. Perhaps the balled up paper is to signify that it's a discarded line and won't be used at all.

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S.E. Jones - Aug 23, 2004 9:35 pm (#167 of 476)

Let it snow!
Maddest Draggon: I think, when JK says yellow eyes, she means yellow eyes. Harry's and his mother's are green. Not hazel, not blue, but green.

Well firstly, Riddikulus has already beat me to pointing out that it's "yellowish", not "yellow". Secondly, green is an actual eye color. It's not brown or blue, because it's green (a natural eye color). I don't really see where you're going with that line of thinking.

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Archangel - Aug 23, 2004 9:44 pm (#168 of 476)

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Yellowish... hmmm... could the person or being referred to in the clue be sick? I read somewhere that certain diseases like hepatitis could produce a yellowish tinge to the eyes. Just a thought...

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S.E. Jones - Aug 23, 2004 9:51 pm (#169 of 476)

Let it snow!
I'm still thinking that the eyes might be hazel as hazel eyes are both brown and green, tint wise, and so might look yellowish....

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The giant squid - Aug 24, 2004 12:48 am (#170 of 476)

Well, my eyes are officially hazel...they've been green, brown, or blue, depending on what I'm wearing, but I don't think they've ever come across as yellow or yellowish.

Then again, that's just me. Your mileage may vary.

I think it's the new DADA teacher, though who that might be, I don't know. I will say that the name McClagan would fit the person described, but I can't bring myself to say there really is a connection there. It's either a coincidence that she mentioned the name so soon before the clue, or she gave us the clue because she gave us the name. With JKR, either one is just as likely.

--Mike
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therealscabbers - Aug 24, 2004 1:17 am (#171 of 476)

Petra t
Er hang on lets remember whoever this person is he is not real, but a fictional character made up by JK, therefore if SHE SAYS he has Yellowish eyes HE HAS yellowish eyes, doesnt matter if genetics/biology etc say that a person cant have yellow eyes as we are talking about JK's IMAGINATION, in which this person has YELLOWISH EYES. THANK YOU!!!!

Ok as for illness I did mentione that in my last post - most diseases that affect the liver - Cerosis, hepatitis B or C etc can cause the person to have yellowish eyes, but like I said I really think that JK has described him as having yellowish eyes because that is how she sees him in her imagination - perhaps to increase the lionine effect.

As for lupin I think since Harry knows him so well he would describe him in more familiar terms:

“He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; his keen yellowish eyes behind his wire rimmed spectacles his rangy loping grace there even though he was walking with a limp”

I am no writer but I hope you get the point

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Kwikspell - Aug 24, 2004 7:40 am (#172 of 476)

Marketers? Bah!
My brother has hazel eyes that can appear "yellowish," depending on what he's wearing. When I was in college, I used to run into a guy that had truly (gorgeous) yellow eyes, but they may have been color contacts.

Like Zhigulii, I'm guessing JKR picked the eye color based on the leonine traits. Does anybody know if lions have yellowish eyes? I must confess, I've never been close enough to check! :-)

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Madame Librarian - Aug 24, 2004 8:05 am (#173 of 476)

On the illness issue, I believe that liver disease and some others cause a jaundiced condition which makes the whites of one's eyes to turn yellow or yellow-ish, not the cornea, iris, etc. I doubt JKR meant this anyway.

Some cats appear to have yellow-ish eyes, so possibly lions do too. I'm with the-reader-is-supposed-to-think-of-a-lion gang. JKR may do complicated things with her plots and inner workings of characters' motivations, but on stuff like this she's pretty straightforward.

Ciao. Barb

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riddikulus - Aug 24, 2004 10:08 am (#174 of 476)

Zhigulii Longbottom, it's a good theory and makes as much sense as any of the others! I wrote earlier about the clues in the drawer... I didn't use the route you took, but I like yours better.

On another note: Warty, mostly for you ;)I watched disc 2 again and I don't remember if I stressed the regal looking wizards half moon glasses? There must be a reason DD is right under this wizard. There has to be a relation. It's too coincidental, otherwise. The half moon glasses could be worn by all wizards of the day, like a fad... but again... coincidental. The months around the portrait could mean anything... could have something to do with his and his relations fondness for astrology and astronomy.

But about the wizard in purple... theres something written on the portrait... possibly his name. It almost looks like Aberforth. I can't make it out though. Can you? One more (and sorry this is so long), there's a woman, in the back (sitting room, with DDs second portrait) she's got a large ring on her middle finger and she's holding a book... I tried to get in close enough to see if it may be the diary, but when I pause the screen, it gets a little blurry, and I can't tell. Can you? It's more than likely not... why would Voldys ma be there? But... Also, can you get in close enough to see what's written on DDs journal on his desk?

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riddikulus - Aug 24, 2004 10:21 am (#175 of 476)

Well, if his name is Leo McClaggan... I'm with you there. She did give us this name (I think he won't be a big player.. I don't think she'd give us that much info).

The person she's describing gives the possibility of being an animagus or the like. But more so, wants us to think, lion. From lion to Gryffindor, from G to an heir, from an heir to the HBP... perhaps.

It could be Harrys new DADA teacher and we come to find out he's not only the HBP but the heir to Gryffindor. Anyway... that's my thinking on this. It could be anything... I am open to anything, even the suggestion of Crookshanks turning into a man. Anyone know any old wizards named crookshanks or if the name means anything?

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Madame Librarian - Aug 24, 2004 11:15 am (#176 of 476)

Crookshanks =

crook--crooked or bent
shanks--legs or haunches

In merry olde England a person referred to as a crookshanks was lame or bowlegged (wasn't there a character in one of Shakespeare's plays--Henry IV maybe--who was named Crookshanks). Another term that is similar is bandylegged. I think if you read the description of Mundungus at the beginning of OoP (don't have the book handy, sorry), you'll see the use of bandylegged. I recall the same term at some point being used for Crookshanks the cat. Hmmmm....

Hope this helps.

Ciao. Barb

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S.E. Jones - Aug 24, 2004 1:02 pm (#177 of 476)

Let it snow!
Lions do have yellow eyes. I'm still of the opinion that they are hazel and appear yellowish, though I agree the descriptor was picked to highlight lion-like characteristics. I was trying to think of known characters with hazel eye color or with anything close to tawny hair (orangy-brown, isn't it?), in case there is any connection to a known character. We have Hooch with yellow eyes, James with hazel, Ginny with brown, the Weasleys with red hair, Sturgis Podmore with straw-colored hair (how close is that to tawny?), Dumbledore with auburn hair....

Hm, I still don't know if I'm leaning more toward an old connection or a completely knew character as others have suggested.... I think I need to let my poor little head rest for a bit....

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 24, 2004 1:09 pm (#178 of 476)

Zhigulii, I love your idea that Neville is the heir of Gryffindor's blood, while Harry is the heir by choice. And I think it's equally possible that they're both descendants of Gryffindor. They could be very distant cousins on their fathers' sides (both their fathers were born into wizarding families; we don't know whether Neville's mother was or not).

I completely agree with everyone who thinks this character is supposed to be lion-like. If McClaggan's first name is Leo (has JK said that? If so, I missed it), then it's got to be him. That would be completely in line with her character naming patterns.

Something else that points to the Gryffindor-lion-Harry-Neville connection: Harry and Neville are both Leos. Perhaps that's one reason why the prophecy named a boy born in late July to parents who had thrice defied Voldemort: he would be born under the sign of Leo and would be a descendant of Gryffindor. And Voldemort is the heir to Slytherin (he could open the Chamber), so this is the ultimate Gryffindor/Slytherin battle.

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Catherine - Aug 24, 2004 1:10 pm (#179 of 476)

Canon Seeker
In merry olde England a person referred to as a crookshanks was lame or bowlegged (wasn't there a character in one of Shakespeare's plays--Henry IV maybe--who was named Crookshanks).--Madame Librarian

I don't remember a "crookshanks," but I do know that there was an English king called "Edward the Longshanks."

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Lady Black99 - Aug 24, 2004 1:47 pm (#180 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Ok I have two points that I would like to make: 1) Neville is a pure blood that's why LV identified with Harry (at least that's what DD said). It is possible that Neville is a descendant of GG but it is unlikely that he is the HBP because he is a "Pure Blood". 2) This character isn't the first to be described as having yellow eye' s. As someone said a few posts ago Hooch also has yellow eyes. Granted on the web site it said "yellowish" but still as I read the quote over and over again all I can picture is a lion. I really couldn't see Crookshanks as a lion or anything else other than what he is. If he were to play a bigger role in the series I don't think she would have made him half kennesel (I hope I spelled that right) she would have mad him an animagi. Please let me know what you think.

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riddikulus - Aug 24, 2004 1:52 pm (#181 of 476)

Edited by Aug 24, 2004 1:52 pm
I'm sorry Dragon... that was a supposed to be posed as a question... IF McClaggans name is Leo? Sorry if I gave another impression. But, what I was saying is, that I don't think it is, and I can't imagine JR would tell us the name and then give us a description of him too... I think it'll just be a name of someone less inconsequential.

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 24, 2004 2:03 pm (#182 of 476)

I agree that McClaggan is probably a bit character--but I see a strong possibility for this leonine character to be named Leo, or Leon, or something similar. Perhaps he's named Felix (feline). And he's likely to have a last name that speaks to his lion-likeness, like the werewolf being named Remus Lupin.

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Madame Librarian - Aug 24, 2004 4:21 pm (#183 of 476)

Aaah, Catherine, that's it! I was probably thinking of Longshanks. Thanks. Well, at least my definitions are OK. Maybe I was thinking of a character from somewhere else--a Crookback, or something like that. Maybe I'm a victim of false memory. Y'know, it happens.

Ciao. Barb

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Veritaserum - Aug 24, 2004 7:38 pm (#184 of 476)

Go Jays!
I like the Frank Longbottom idea, though this guy doesn't sound much like a Frank to me. What about my idea of some other unknown order member?

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Her-melanie - Aug 25, 2004 9:52 am (#185 of 476)

"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Maybe Fawkes is an animagus, and this is a description of him as a human, and he is also the new DaDa teacher. OR maybe it IS a description of Lupin, but after he is able to get a job and recover a bit from his werewolfishness. Or maybe it is a description of older Harry who comes back from the future to teach DaDa. Or maybe it is a description of HARRY'S DAD JAMES WHO IS NOT ACTUALLY DEAD! And now my head has exploded.

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Doris Crockford - Aug 25, 2004 10:06 am (#186 of 476)

Veritaserum, it could easily be another Order member, but we don't really have enough info about any to figure out which one, or even if it's a member from the first war or a new recruit to the Order.

Hermelanie, do you mean that Lupin will be cured of his werewolfism (is that a word)? But I still don't think it's Lupin, since he has never been described as lionish(why do I keep inventing words today?), or with bushy eyebrows or glasses. I doubt it's Harry, since he has black hair and blue eyes and has never been described as lionish. Same with James (who I, personally, think is definitely dead and not coming back).

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Star Crossed - Aug 25, 2004 10:31 am (#187 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Harry has eyes as green as a pickled toad. Doris. Very Happy

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Doris Crockford - Aug 25, 2004 10:37 am (#188 of 476)

hehe, thanks Starcrossed. Stupid movie contamination. And James has different coloured eyes anyways (hazel?).

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Star Crossed - Aug 25, 2004 10:46 am (#189 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yep, hazel eyes for our lovely James Potter.

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fortuna major - Aug 25, 2004 3:40 pm (#190 of 476)

I could have sworn that I read somewhere in a chat or interview or something with Jo that said that a wizard can't turn into a phoenix. It would be really cool to be able to do that if you knew you were about to die though, huh?

I think that the idea about Neville and Harry being Gryffindor's divided heirs is one of the best that I've seen. Props to you!

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dragon keeper - Aug 25, 2004 4:03 pm (#191 of 476)

a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly Smile
Someone else said it before, but I agree and think that the HBP is more likely a memory from the the past who will be revealed and could help Harry discover...something? Kind of like when Tom Riddle was introduced. It seems more likely that the description is about the new DADA teacher...but who knows? The whole "lionish" description could just be JKR trying to throw us off the track: giving us a clue that we would automatically try to connect with the HBP.

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riddikulus - Aug 25, 2004 6:12 pm (#192 of 476)

I was thinking about yellow eyes and Madame Hooch. Of course, Hooch means dwelling, usually a thatched hut... but I can't help but think of dog, when I hear hooch. Maybe it's not a lion so much, as dog that could fit that description.

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therealscabbers - Aug 26, 2004 1:44 am (#193 of 476)

Petra t
Hooch - Pooch think that is the dog connection Riddikulus!!

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Betelgeuse Black - Aug 26, 2004 7:29 am (#194 of 476)

As long as you don't say "Hoochie Mama". :-) That isn't flattering at all.

Betelgeuse

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riddikulus - Aug 26, 2004 10:33 am (#195 of 476)

lol realscabbers, I was hoping someone wouldn't bring that up... or the fact that hooch is the name of a dog in a movie. Smile

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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 12:17 pm (#196 of 476)

a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly Smile
So are you thinking that it will be a relative of Madame Hooch? (duh, it couldn't be Hooch herself...) What do we know about her heratige so far?

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Madame Librarian - Aug 26, 2004 12:38 pm (#197 of 476)

OK, here's wrinkle in that ointment...wait, that's fly in the ointment...no, wait...it's a doxie. Anyway, in the US "hooch" is a slang term for bootleg liquor or any cheap, potent booze. I think it was used in the 20s and 30s during Prohibition.

Then, again, why would a British author of books suitable for kids, name a character after strong drink, cheap stuff at that?

Ciao. Barb

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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 12:41 pm (#198 of 476)

a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly Smile
Don't you just like the way that word/name sounds? "HOOCH"

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 26, 2004 1:10 pm (#199 of 476)

...why would a British author of books suitable for kids, name a character after strong drink, cheap stuff at that? - Madame Librarian

Well, she already named a character after smelly tobacco (Mundungus), and the Hog's Head after a method of measuring liquor (What's In a Name thread, post #165), so why not?

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Siriusly - Aug 26, 2004 2:58 pm (#200 of 476)

She did not write these as children's books.

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 201 to 250)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:43 am

riddikulus - Aug 26, 2004 4:03 pm (#201 of 476)
What an odd thing to say Siriusly... how would you know that? I think she wrote them as childrens books, with the idea that children are intelligent little people who can deal with lots, grasp lots and understand lots. The fact that they appeal to adults doesn't mean they weren't for children and the fact they have children as their base characters, doesn't mean they shouldn't appeal to adults. They're for all. But how would you know her intent in writing them?

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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 4:14 pm (#202 of 476)

a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly Smile
I know what you mean Riddikulus. I am a future teacher and CONSTANTLY surprised by how smart kids are. They understand more than we give them credit for sometimes. But I do think that these books were intended for everyone, not specifically children.

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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 4:29 pm (#203 of 476)

"Anyone can cook"
Rowling commented once that she wrote them for herself. She was the intended target.

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Madame Librarian - Aug 26, 2004 5:11 pm (#204 of 476)

I remember her comment about children's books. What I meant was that she didn't write them soley for kids, but they are suitable for kids. Believe it or not, starting with PoA, some parents I chat with at the library would rather their kids wait till age 11 or 12 to tackle the last three. Even though I don't necessarily agree, I understand where they're coming from.

JKR has stated, I believe, that there are simply some topics that will not come up in these books because she knows that children do read them. Unfortunately I don't know where it was that she said this. Maybe I read it on the Lexicon somewhere.

Ciao. Barb

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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 5:22 pm (#205 of 476)

"Anyone can cook"
Barb,

I went to Quick Quotes and searched on "pregnancy". There are a number of quotes. Here is one of the better ones. (It also happens to be the first one time-wise).

Obviously, it is inappropriate in books like these, it would be totally alien to the tone of these books if I got into too brutally realistic of an area ---- you know, we’re not going to be looking at teenage pregnancy here, we’re not going to be looking at drug taking here, you know. This would be totally alien to the spirit of these books. However, I do want Harry to grow up in a realistic way.

I think the pertinent quote is the underlined passage.

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Madame Librarian - Aug 26, 2004 8:11 pm (#206 of 476)

Thanks, Prefect.

I am feeling lazy so I didn't dig around in Quick Quotes as I should have. The Forum members are such a thorough and reliable gang that I hoped someone would research it, or know it by heart (some do that, too).

Ciao. Barb

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Boris the Bewildered - Aug 27, 2004 8:13 am (#207 of 476)

The "yellowish eyes" person will be a cameo character - a healer at St Mungo, a passer by on Privet Drive, a shopper on Diagon Alley. He will be a part of a description of a place rather than an actor in the plot.

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Fawksey girl - Aug 27, 2004 9:00 am (#208 of 476)

My first reaction to this description was Aberforth, but then at the same time, I can't help but wonder if it is a person at all. Dumble dore brought firenze to teach maybe this is the newest teacher.

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Fawksey girl - Aug 27, 2004 9:03 am (#209 of 476)

I think it will be more than a passing character; it is too in depth of a description for a cameo. Maybe a relation to the Weasleys; arthur's dad even?

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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 9:05 am (#210 of 476)

a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly Smile
That is an interesting thought Boris, that the person in the description is not an important character at all. Hmmm...

What is JKR playing at?

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Siriusly - Aug 27, 2004 12:38 pm (#211 of 476)

As someone in another thread pointed out, maybe it was to show that the sentence in question has already been edited. You know what that means?

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Fawksey girl - Aug 27, 2004 12:57 pm (#212 of 476)

If it had been edited, what do you suppose the original content was, something about GG?

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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 12:59 pm (#213 of 476)

a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly Smile
I hope it means what we all want it to mean...the book is almost done!!

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 27, 2004 4:40 pm (#214 of 476)

You think JK's working THAT fast? It's only a year since the last one came out, and between having a toddler, consulting for the movies, and expecting again, not to mention book tours, how could she be anywhere near done? Especially if she's doing as thorough a job as on the others.

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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 4:55 pm (#215 of 476)

"Anyone can cook"
Well, she is making no book tours. The movies are filming themselves for the most part. And CoS, PoA, and GoF took only one year each to complete. She has stated that HBP is closer to the length of PoA than GoF or OoP.

She also promised that her future baby will not cause any writing delays. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

So, assuming conservatively that she was 1 month along when she made the announcement on July 24th, the latest she can deliver the manuscript before delivering the baby is the end of March 2005. So given the previous three month leadtimes for her other books, that means we should be expecting the book no later than the first of July, 2005.

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timrew - Aug 27, 2004 4:55 pm (#216 of 476)

Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Maybe the Half Blood Prince is a pop-up book, about twelve pages long. This would explain why it's nearly ready.

It could be along the same lines of, "Where's Wally?" This one entitled, "Where's Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince?"

Perhaps JKR realises that she's getting a bit 'adult' for her readers and is getting back into the spirit of the earlier books.....

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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 5:11 pm (#217 of 476)

a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly Smile
I was thinking that she pretty much knows what will be in the books anyway, she just has to work on the finer details...I'm with you Marcus.

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 27, 2004 5:50 pm (#218 of 476)

Like your idea, timrew. But I bet it's Where's Voldie?

Now you, too, can join the clueless Ministry of Magic officials as they search for Lord Voldemort in plain sight. Whose turban is he hiding under now? Which cauldron is he about to pop out of? And what is this strange fuss about a prophecy?

And, as a bonus, figure out which character kicks the bucket. As a double bonus, can you find out who has a secret crush on who?

Answers in Book 7.

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Veritaserum - Aug 27, 2004 6:42 pm (#219 of 476)

Go Jays!
Very funny, you two. I wonder, how old does everyone think this character is? I was thinking older than MWPP, maybe just a tad younger than Moody. I don't think he'd be old enough to be the Weasley's grandfather. Maybe I'm wrong, but nothing about this character suggested a relationship with any existing character. He sounded completely new to me. I hope he turns out to be a big character, he sounded cool.

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fortuna major - Aug 27, 2004 6:44 pm (#220 of 476)

I know it's only a year out from the last one, but she did say that HBP will be quite a bit shorter than OoTP. And she could have been writing HBP while her publishers were holding OoTP captive to try to release it at the time that would cash in best on the hype.

Of course, I'm probably being blindly optimistic.

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Ann - Aug 27, 2004 7:06 pm (#221 of 476)

One caution about using the edit on the new clue to judge how far JKR is along in writing HBP: I am pretty sure that in the actual text, the name of the character is there just before the insert. She has omitted that, of course, in giving us a clue (wouldn't want to leave us without stuff to talk about), so she's put in a little edit to supply the sentence with a subject. The point is simply to hide the name. (And in any case, any writer puts in little edits as she goes along--you don't do the whole thing and only then edit it. Just look at her rejected draft page for PS/SS on the web site.) So it doesn't tell us anything about the status of the book.

That said, there may be a bit of a clue in the edit after all. If it was a completely new character with a completely new name, she might have just left the name in: "Lancelot Whosis looked rather like an old lion." Then we would have still had the chance to make wild suggestions and talk about who Mr. Whosis might be. But if the erased name was "Richard Weasley" or "Rupert Gryffindor" or "Professor Mottlebury," we'd be quite limited in our choices; we'd know something else about the character besides his appearance--something she doesn't want us to know.

So I think we can conclude from the edit that the snippet does not just refer to a passing Muggle or minor character. It refers to a named character, whose name or title would give us a clue to more than she wants us to know.

Finally, there might be a connection between the two pieces of paper that have come from the Room of Requirement so far: the first told us that book six involves a half-blood prince; could the second tell us what he looks like?

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madame hooch - Aug 27, 2004 7:09 pm (#222 of 476)

Im guessing the new character to be the Gryffindor heir.He has come to help battle Voldemort(The heir of Slytherin).Just a thought.Perhaps Nicholas Flamel.

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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:44 pm (#223 of 476)

Before someone mentioned time Travel

thought maybe harry went back to when hogwarts was Founded

and the half-Blood Prince is Slyitherin

see he would be just like Tom Ridle (YOU-KNOW-WHO)he had a muggle father but he didnt want anything to do with muggles

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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:45 pm (#224 of 476)

no I dout Nicholas Flamel i dont think JK will bring a character other then Voldemort back to life

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Siriusly - Aug 27, 2004 8:09 pm (#225 of 476)

We are just kidding about the edit, we just like to dream. Let us have our little fantasy. We know that it won't compete contractually with GOF movie. We just like to kid ourselves.

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The giant squid - Aug 28, 2004 12:26 am (#226 of 476)

Ann, I agree. I thought the same thing when I saw the edit. She deliberately removed the name from the snippet; therefore, we would most likely recognize the name. Either in and of itself or in reference to someone or something we already know. That's why I'm sticking to my theories that it's either the new DADA professor or Godric himself.

--Mike

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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 28, 2004 11:10 am (#227 of 476)

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Ah. I'm sorry to be so pessimistic again, but I just can't imagine HBP being out before summer 2006 - and it pains me to say it believe me.

She said she doubts HBP will be as long as OotP - which sounds like it will be still fairly long *fingers crossed*, however, a lengthy novel can not possibly be written in a year, especially one is in depth as Harry Potter.

I really hope I am wrong, but I'm still sticking with at least summer 2006.

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Star Crossed - Aug 28, 2004 11:42 am (#228 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Richard, but it wouldn't be written in a year. We are already passed the one year anniversary that OP came out. She still has almost another year to write the rest of the book for it to come out summer of next year.

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The One - Aug 28, 2004 12:44 pm (#229 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
It took almost half a year from she finished writing until OotP was published. In order to have it published by the summer of 2005 she must finish it around Christmas, and she also have to finish by then to make good the promise that the next baby will not delay the book.

She started working on the next one the HBP as soon as the OotP was sent to her publishers. That means that by Christmas she will have worked on it for two years. But during those two years she had a child, so she cannot have been working all that time. One and a half year working perhaps, if she has been very eager and started writing as soon as possible after the birth, or perhaps only a year if she has allowed herself a longer "birth leave". She certainly does not have to start working at once due to money constraints.

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Saud - Aug 28, 2004 3:11 pm (#230 of 476)

Edited by Aug 28, 2004 3:13 pm
Entering the guessing game! My 1st post.

Many people have so far strongly guessed this description as being: 1. Godric Gryffindor (Most guessed because of the lion reference, a good guess) 2. McClaggan - as he is a new character with no prior information. 3. A Centaur - a new war approaches and centaurs surely look to be an important part of it. (Although the glasses makes it hard)

This "description could be anyone unimportant but it most probably is someoone noteworthy. It could be the new DADA teacher or the HBP. It doesn't look likely to be the new Minister of Magic as it most likely has to be someone we already know(Mrs. Bones??).

I believe it is a new character and somehow is seems to me that Hermione has to play a key role about this character. What connections or relatives does she have? Well she does have a penpal named Viktor Krum.

VK used to be in Durmstrang and he is not from England as well. He lives in a different country although we do not know where. Its about time that secret gets revealed and Durmstrang, being a school known for its dark-arts, might have more to reveal in the next book, as well as the whereabouts of its fleed Headmaster.

This new 'limping' character seems to me as the description of the HBP and it is somehow related to the location where Durmstrang is.

I have read about 110 of the previous posts in this thread and its been quite a while since I read the books so all that I wrote above may be simply stupid useless stuff. It come into my head so I decided to throw it in.

Do criticize!

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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 28, 2004 3:18 pm (#231 of 476)

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Hi Saud and welcome to the discussion. It to agree that the description is of the HBP. I mean, it makes sense. I suppose JKR could simply make us think it is, but what would really be the point of that. Either way, it is a new character as we have never seen anyone who completely matches this discription.

I am true transfixed on the lion links, and because of this - either short-sightedness, or observations as I haven't decided yet - I am sticking with the GG theory.

However, I am not opposed to the theory of Hermione finding something out about the HBP. If it is - which has been mentioned before - that the HBP is first mentioned in passing, I would bet it would be Hermione who picks it up and goes to investigate - does it sound too similar to PS/SS?

Well either way, I guess we will not know who the HBP is for sure, until the book is released.

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Saud - Aug 28, 2004 3:49 pm (#232 of 476)

And Durmstrand and VK, do you think they are of any importance at all for the HBP?

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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 28, 2004 3:55 pm (#233 of 476)

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I'm afraid not. I think Krum is essentially a good person, and the fact that he goes to Durmstrung is his poor luck. I think they were just added for the GoF tournament.

Remember, it was Karkaroff who taught all the students dark arts, but he has fled, possibly dead, I can see them taking a new approach to their teaching, but who knows. The same with Beuxbutons's (sorry about spelling). I don't think that school will have a big mention again, perhaps just in passing.

However, Karkaroff himself maybe appear, however, I believe he will be killed by Voldemort personally. As for Durmstrung being connected to the HBP, I doubt it, but who knows.

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riddikulus - Aug 28, 2004 7:06 pm (#234 of 476)

Edited by Aug 28, 2004 7:06 pm
Wait. Don't forget, Krum is an excellent flyer. For someone his age, it may be ordinary, but i'm not so sure. The hat wanted to put Harry in Slytherin, because of his bond with Voldy... maybe Krum didn't ask, or beg, as Harry did, to have a different coarse in life. Perhaps Krum is more like Harry than we think... maybe the reason he flies so well, and his conflict with the dark arts and his interest in Hermione... have bearing on something, we'll come to find out. I'm not saying anything here, other than to not discount him.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 28, 2004 7:24 pm (#235 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Riddikulus, agree with your reasoning...but for some reason, the name Krum might be against him, or might be a red herring, "tho I have never met a red herring named Krum, nor have I met all the red herrings..."

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Siriusly - Aug 28, 2004 7:32 pm (#236 of 476)

Riddikulus, that sounded a little like James and his interest in Lili calming him down.

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 28, 2004 7:53 pm (#237 of 476)

maybe Krum didn't ask, or beg, as Harry did, to have a different coarse in life

Wait.... we don't know if Durmstrang, like Hogwarts, has different Houses, or, if so, which one Krum was in. Perhaps he went into the one that was the least Dark Arts-ish. Hogwarts doesn't teach Dark Arts, but they still have a Slytherin House. At Durmstrang, all the students are required to study Dark Arts. That doesn't mean Durmstrang can't have a House that's something like Gryffindor or Hufflepuff, where students would be more concerned with chivalry or fairness. It's also possible that Durmstrang doesn't divide its students into Houses at all.

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Lunar Tides - Aug 28, 2004 7:57 pm (#238 of 476)

Hey everyone,

This is sort of random but, since there's only one more book after the 6th, do you all think it's too late for Rowling to introduce a new major character?

I don't know why, but I have a feeling that if the HBP is going to be a new character, he would be closely connected to a character we would know already.

Always accepting criticism

-Chanuel

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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 12:27 am (#239 of 476)

lol BlueEyes, for some reason your message got me thinking of different meanings for Krum. All I could come up with (and I am sleep deprived) was Crumb. But, In slang, crumb means, a worthless person. Of course, it could mean crumble or fragments. So, I think i'm way off there. I'll go get some sleep.

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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 29, 2004 10:39 am (#240 of 476)

Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Richard Reid-JKR did say we would see more of Krum. How much is anyone's guess. Personally I think he was in a way like Harry. Got thrust into something because he was good at one thing-flying. Maybe never wanted all of the notice just had it thrust upon him.

Mikie

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Mafalda Weasley - Aug 29, 2004 11:06 am (#241 of 476)

I agree with Lunar Tides. JKR said herself the 6th book will be time for answers - she says we have had enough questions and clues. It is too late to introduce someone major - which is why I think it is Gryffindor - because we already know him - sort of

Speaking of Krum - wonder if durmstrangs any better these days?...

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 29, 2004 11:38 am (#242 of 476)

I'm not convinced that she won't introduce anyone major. Probably not in the seventh book, but maybe in the sixth. This new major character might be someone who's been lurking in the background, i.e. mentioned in passing but not introduced. Like Sirius Black was mentioned in the first book but not introduced until PoA, in which he was the title character.

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Saud - Aug 29, 2004 2:37 pm (#243 of 476)

This new description of a character IS SOMEONE NEW ofcourse. But it is not 100% that its about the HBP. It might be anyone in passing but is more likely to be the HBP or the new DADA teacher.

The thing is there has to be 2 new characters OR 1 new and the other being introduced more deeply. This character description looks of a new person so either the DADA teacher or the HBP is new to us.

I am only guessing though.

Thanks for the criticism!

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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 29, 2004 2:46 pm (#244 of 476)

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MickeyCee - I think if we do see more of Krum, then it will be through ties with Hermione, and yes I agree - he didn't want all the attention he got.

I think she will introduce more new characters, although, possibly not so much in book 7. But remember, a lot can change in a book - they take place over a whole year, and many things can change. This mystery character is obviously knew, and for JKR to describe him would suggest he will be an important character, possibly not the HBP.

However, it is still completely debatable whether the HBP himself will be a major character, or maybe just something in passing.

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Tomoé - Aug 29, 2004 3:27 pm (#245 of 476)

Back in business
I think there will be new characters, we met new characters in every books so far, I see no reason why to stop it now, specially as JKR intend book7 to be the biggest of them all*. And those new characters don't have to be very important anyway.

As for who is that man, the first thought that came to me as I read the lines was "It's the DADA teacher". Later on, as I began to read this thread I thought "Oh, it's Tonks. Jo is toying with us", but I'm not sure of anything now, except that it's likely we never seen him before. By the way, I like the idea that it's could be Frank Longbottom.

As for the color of the lions' eye, here's a picture.

*Will [GoF] be the biggest?

No, I think book seven will be. Seven's going to be like the Encyclopaedia Britannica, because I'm going to want to say goodbye.

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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 29, 2004 3:44 pm (#246 of 476)

I think it might be Tonks, but only if metamorphmagi are able to make themselves appear to be the opposite sex. That would almost be cruel, actually; here we have all kinds of theories about who this man might be when really it's someone we already know who is female.

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The One - Aug 29, 2004 3:52 pm (#247 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
Tomoé

I thought "Oh, it's Tonks. Jo is toying with us"

A possible soul mate! To bad your faith in the theory seems to be weak.

Loony Loopy Larissa

I think it might be Tonks, but only if metamorphmagi are able to make themselves appear to be the opposite sex.

I see no reason to assume that that should not be possible, note that for most purposes she does not really need to change sex.

I do not know if it is Tonks, but I regard it as a possibility, and I certainly hope so....

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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 3:54 pm (#248 of 476)

There have been suggestions that others, possibly Harry might be a metamorphagi... it could be him, being described by someone else. I was watching PoA today and I swear I thought for a moment that Crookshanks might be wearing half moon specs lol by the color scheme of the cat... the next moment, I didn't see it. But, I haven't ruled out the cat either. Of course, I still believe that wizards can stay in their animagus form for years... it could be a very old wizard. So, my conclusion is, it could be anyone or anything. BOOM oh great, now my heads exploded.

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Tomoé - Aug 29, 2004 4:21 pm (#249 of 476)

Back in business
Larissa -> I think it might be Tonks, but only if metamorphmagi are able to make themselves appear to be the opposite sex.

I don't think appear to be the opposite sex is a problem even if they can't change sex, as long as they don't have to be bare naked. Tonks can change her nose in whatever form she want and look like an old woman, to grow a beard is no different as reducing breast or get more belly and less thigh. Even Dung can do a convincing woman and he's no metamorphagus.

Yes, the One, my faith is weak, I'm desperately hoping she not toying with us. ^_^

Edit : I also though of Crookshawk, as I didn't ruled out he could be a magi-animus, if you get what I mean.

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 29, 2004 5:46 pm (#250 of 476)

JK has said Crookshanks isn't an animagus. Just a cat who's part kneazle.

Interesting idea that it could be Tonks--but I don't think it is. I think we're seeing what this character really looks like. If they are an animagus, though, I bet their animal form is a lion.

Hmmm.... we've already met a werewolf. Could this be a were-lion?

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 251 to 300)

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Tomoé - Aug 29, 2004 6:07 pm (#251 of 476)
Back in business
Hang on, even if I'm sure Tonks is able to look like whatever she likes, even a boy, I'm not sure she have the talent to fake an attitude that she doesn't usually have, like a certain rangy, loping grace.

By saying Crookshanks could be a magi-animus, I meant he could be a cat that turn into human. But the glasses doesn't fit in the picture, so I rule him out. By the way, thanks for the specifics about the invention of glasses Sarah, I remembered it came in the 13th century, because my re-enactement group is a 12th century's one and we shouldn't wear glasses, but couldn't remember the details.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 29, 2004 6:12 pm (#252 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
He looked rather like an old lion. there were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he has keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire -rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.

Ok, who do we know that may look similar to this character? clue

I think I WAY to much time on my hands...heading back to St. Mungo's.

Edit: before I go...was thinking relative or something.

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Tomoé - Aug 29, 2004 7:01 pm (#253 of 476)

Back in business
In which book is the leonine man at Flourish and Blotts? I'm too lazy to check tonight.

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Saud - Aug 29, 2004 7:14 pm (#254 of 476)

This description is of a HE and madam Hooch is a woman.

Is Nicolas Flamel dead yet? Has there been a description of his appearance given anytime before? Was he an animagus?

And Mrs. Norris is a cat, with a name. Closest relative of a Lion. Is she really a she? and is that cat an animagus? She doesn't wear glasses though. Or does she?

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Maollelujah - Aug 29, 2004 7:33 pm (#255 of 476)

With JKR using the word loping, which describes a horses gait, I am suggesting that this character is most likely a centaur, and most likely the HBP.

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conor maloney - Aug 29, 2004 7:41 pm (#256 of 476)

Ok Back to Krum

Ha i wonder did Krum Graduated yet. If so maybe he is the new DADA teacher????

But i still dout krum being the HBP because hes famous and im sure someone would have found out hes a relative of a king or a queen I.E. Hermione

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 29, 2004 8:06 pm (#257 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Saud? "This description is of a HE and madam Hooch is a woman." Perhaps if you read more closely, you would see I said relative.

The yellow eyes, "mane" of stiff unruly hair reminded me of lion, plus feline features to eyes and face.

Seems to me that JKR would have a lot of input to the way her characters are portrayed in the movies.

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Mandie MacLaren - Aug 29, 2004 8:13 pm (#258 of 476)

I think that this is definitely a new character. This just fits with the way JKR describes a new character on the scene.

She has a tendency to use past references when she's describing characters we've met before in the past. Take OOTP page 47 (USA) when she's describing Lupin after Harry hadn't seen him for over a year:

"...he had more gray hair than when Harry had said good-bye to him, and his robes were more patched and shabbier than ever..."

Oh, wait a minute. Erg. See, then she goes on to describe Mad Eye Moody as though we had never seen him before... ALTHOUGH--we hadn't seen the REAL Mad Eye--just Crouch incognito. So it IS the first time we've seen Mad Eye... But that seems like it's reaching a bit...

Oh well. It was a thought. Can I join you at St. Mungo's, TwinklingBlueEyes?

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 29, 2004 8:15 pm (#259 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Sure! The more the merrier!

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Magical Llama - Aug 30, 2004 1:20 am (#260 of 476)

He looked rather like an old lion. there were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he has keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire -rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.

I do not realistically think that JKR would give that description to any one other then Gryffindor, unless that description applies to four people at once.

1) there were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair (lion)

2) bushy eyebrows(badger)

3) he has keen yellowish eyes (snake)

4) rangy, loping grace (raven)

As we know, the four founders enchanted the sorting hat to give it brains and personality.

Here is a quote from JKR on the sorting hat:

JKR: "There is more to the Sorting Hat than what you have read about in the first three books. Readers will find out what the Sorting Hat becomes as they get into future books." (The Boston Globe, October 1999)

I think that quote makes it clear that the sorting hat will become something important later on in the series. I personally believe the hat will become the mystery person above, and that person will also be the Half Blood Prince.

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Siriusly - Aug 30, 2004 8:03 am (#261 of 476)

Boy would that be the pits. The hat is a person.

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Phoenix song - Aug 30, 2004 8:12 am (#262 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Magical Llama: You've made some really good points. It's given me something to think about. I hadn't connected the description of the new person as having qualities of all four founders.

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madame hooch - Aug 30, 2004 9:26 am (#263 of 476)

As far as i know Nicholas Flamel was still alive at the end of s.s. D.D. stated that he had enough elixer left to set their affairs in order.Why did Nick need to stay alive for so long?The stone must have been created for a reason.Also,Why did D.D."look delighted" when he found out harry was familiar with Nick.

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Siriusly - Aug 30, 2004 11:46 am (#264 of 476)

Just a note: Merpersons have "yellowish eyes".

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riddikulus - Aug 30, 2004 11:55 am (#265 of 476)

Edited by Aug 30, 2004 11:57 am
That was my very first thought, Siriusly, but I discounted it because they also, don't have legs... Ok, second thought, after Aberforth.

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Siriusly - Aug 30, 2004 11:57 am (#266 of 476)

but would they on land, ala that stupid mermaid movie with Tom Hanks, can't remember the name.

I don't actually think it is a mermaid, just wanted to note the eye color.

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Maddest Dragon - Aug 30, 2004 12:18 pm (#267 of 476)

Maybe a merperson fell in love with a human royal, took a potion to grow legs, and....

Oops, sorry, wrong story.

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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 30, 2004 12:49 pm (#268 of 476)

I find it hard to believe that a hat could become a person, but that is an intriguing idea. It also looks more like a lion (Gryffindor) because it was Godric's hat and, therefore, would have more of him in it.

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Lady Black99 - Aug 30, 2004 1:06 pm (#269 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Loony Loopy Larissa please help me in what book does it say it's GG hat? I can't find it. Thanks

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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 30, 2004 1:09 pm (#270 of 476)

Gosh that's a hard question. Off the top of my head I will say the sorting hat song in Goblet of Fire... that sounds about right. It says something to the effect of "T'was Gryffindor who found the key, he whipped me right off his head. They all put a little brains in me." (That is probably completely made up, but there was a line like that in its song.)

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The One - Aug 30, 2004 1:13 pm (#271 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
Almost. Not bad!

GoF Chapter 12:

Yet how to pick the worthy ones When they were dead and gone? 'Twas Gryffindor who found the way, He whipped me off his head The founders put some brains in me So I could choose instead!

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Lady Black99 - Aug 30, 2004 1:21 pm (#272 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Got it Thanks! Ok so now my honest opinion. I don't think that the Sorting Hat is a person. I do however think its going to be an important part of the story. I'm not sure how yet. Oh I got it maybe it will be a way of Harry visiting the past and seeing what exactly happened between the four founders and that is when we see the description (that JKR gave us) of GG. It's and idea.

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Chris. - Aug 30, 2004 1:24 pm (#273 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think the person is the Sorting Hat.

Perhaps it is Fawkes?

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Lady Black99 - Aug 30, 2004 1:31 pm (#274 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Sorry Prongs it can't be Flawks. Flawks brought the Sorting Hat to Harry in the chamber they were both there at the same time.

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Chris. - Aug 30, 2004 1:39 pm (#275 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Lady Black, but I'm not of the opinion that the person is the Sorting Hat.

I don't think the person is the Sorting Hat.-- Me

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Lady Black99 - Aug 30, 2004 1:55 pm (#276 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Prongs I know I just wanted to point out that the sorting hat and Flawks are two separate entities. If I misunderstood you please help me understand. Thanks

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Chris. - Aug 30, 2004 1:59 pm (#277 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Lady Black, I know Fawkes is the Phoenix and the Sorting Hat is.. well... the Sorting Hat. Two different "objects/creatures".

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Mandie MacLaren - Aug 30, 2004 2:12 pm (#278 of 476)

It would be kind of strange for the sorting hat to become a person--it was explained in the song that it is simply a hat that has been enchanted by the four founders, right? For it to suddenly become a living breathing person would be a little strange. Of course, here I am in the land of flying broomsticks and animagi and werewolves calling a simple hat-into-person idea "strange..." Very Happy

No, I still feel that this loping person is a totally new character. But who? WHO???

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riddikulus - Aug 30, 2004 4:20 pm (#279 of 476)

You sound like an owl. Hmm There are tawny owls, aren't there?

But remember, in this world of oddities, there is transfiguration. People have become objects, look at Crouch Jr. turning his dad to a bone, for instance. Although, I think we'll find a person becoming an animal, more, um realistic lol

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Magical Llama - Aug 30, 2004 4:41 pm (#280 of 476)

Tawny is a sandy color normally associated with lions. Let me look it up :

Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French tanné, past participle of tanner to tan Date: 14th century

1 : of the color tawny

2 : of a warm sandy color like that of well-tanned skin

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Saud - Aug 30, 2004 5:01 pm (#281 of 476)

I remember there is mention in the series of 7 registered animagi and well we seem to already know 6 unregistered animagi. Was the names of the registered 7 mentioned anywhere in the series?

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Phoenix song - Aug 30, 2004 5:18 pm (#282 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Professor McGonnagal is mentioned as one of the registered animagi, of course. But there is a flaw in the registered animagi information. I believe, (and I'm sorry that I can not find the direct quote at this time), that Hermione said that there were 7 registered animagi THIS century. Since we know that wizards often live much longer than 100 years, there could be more registered animagi still alive. After all, isn't Dumbledore something like 155? If he were an animagi, (and I couldn't see that he WOULDN'T be as he was the transfiguration master), he would probably be registered in the previous century. I agree that the remaining 6 animagi that we know of will probably become important to the series. I hope that they will become known to us shortly.

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Saud - Aug 30, 2004 5:47 pm (#283 of 476)

Edit: We know just four unregistered animagi and not six, my mistake.

And Twinkling BlueEyes, apologies for error in my reading.

Can I join St.Mungo's too.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 30, 2004 5:49 pm (#284 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
No apology needed. And sure, there's room for all! It's magic you know!

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KWeldon - Aug 30, 2004 7:01 pm (#285 of 476)

Magical Llama suggests the mystery person is a human embodiment of the Sorting Hat:

1) there were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair (lion)

2) bushy eyebrows(badger)

3) he has keen yellowish eyes (snake)

4) rangy, loping grace (raven)

I find your theory interesting, except that the term "rangy, loping grace" doesn't seem to fit with a raven. Can you elaborate?

KWeldon

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conor maloney - Aug 30, 2004 7:29 pm (#286 of 476)

the hat that Flawks brought to harry wasnt the Sorting hat it just was a hat. and i thought that was GG hat. maybe not maybe im wrong??

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conor maloney - Aug 30, 2004 7:33 pm (#287 of 476)

sorry about this but i can only write at nite so this is a few posts back

the hat that Flawks brought to harry wasnt the Sorting hat it just was a hat. and i thought that was GG hat. maybe not maybe im wrong??

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Phoenix song - Aug 30, 2004 8:20 pm (#288 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Conor Maloney: The hat that Fawkes brought to Harry in the CoS WAS the sorting hat. The sorting hat was originally Godric Gryffindor's hat. The sorting hat said that Gryffindor swiped him off his head and that each of the founders placed some brains in him. His job was to then sort the students.

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Frog Bottom - Aug 30, 2004 8:25 pm (#289 of 476)

I think the description is of GG's heir who is also the HBP. I see this whole story line as having once belonged in CoS and it got written out. CoS was all about Slytherin's heir so it makes sense GG's heir would come into play somewhere. Whether his name is McClaggan or if he is the new DADA teacher I'm not sure. But I do think it's a major clue about the HBP and he is someone we have yet to meet.

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Magical Llama - Aug 31, 2004 1:39 am (#290 of 476)

I find your theory interesting, except that the term "rangy, loping grace" doesn't seem to fit with a raven. Can you elaborate?

Doh, your quite right * bows head *

Loping can mean hopping, but gangly does not seem to fit a raven. I still believe that the mystery person has a chance of being the embodiment of Gryffindor via the sorting hat, but the wire-rimmed glasses have me double guessing.

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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 31, 2004 1:16 pm (#291 of 476)

Wait a minute. Did Jo ever mention anything about Lockhart not originally being the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher intended for Chamber of Secrets? I think I've heard that somewhere. If I am not hallucinating, the new teacher this year could have a profound influence on the plot and possibly be the Half-Blood Prince (and also possibly Mr. Clue... I just happened to have this Epiphany here, so I wanted to post it here before I forgot).

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Star Crossed - Aug 31, 2004 1:32 pm (#292 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Triple L, you're hallucinating, according to my memory.

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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 31, 2004 1:49 pm (#293 of 476)

Haha, thanks for your truthfulness.

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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 31, 2004 3:53 pm (#294 of 476)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Ok...A wild theory coming up here:

We all know that it is the Sorting Hats job to sort the students into houses. However, what if that was not it's only job!

What if GG had intended - or perhaps all the founders - to have the sorting hat actually search for certain students. Perhaps he searches for the founder's Heir's, or the HBP. And if so, Dumbledore can hardly be in a worse position for information - the hat stays in his office.

Ok...We could go one step further. What if the hat really is GG, or the HBP - with a nice little bit of transfiguration. Then the hat can judge for himself who is worthy, etc

Just a theory

Richard

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Magical Llama - Aug 31, 2004 9:24 pm (#295 of 476)

Richard: I do not believe the hat will turn into GG himself. An embodiment of him ... perhaps. It is important to remember that the hat has four personalities in it - including Gryyfindor's.

You can find more information about the sorting hat and HBP theory here: Magical Llama "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" 8/28/04 4:18am Post your thoughts under HBP : )

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captain teagué - Sep 1, 2004 11:48 am (#296 of 476)

Can I just ask when the door opens to reveal these clues, I know I'm a bit late but have only discovered this site recently and even though I go on JKR's site almost every day I never seem to catch the door opening, as far as I was concerned it had been shut since the revealing of the book's title!!!

I really really love the idea of Godric entering the fold, it would be brilliant as I imagine him as a Dumbledore figure, wise, caring - an almost "Santa Claus" figure but with a bit more edge! Smile

Thanks for the information in advance!

Hollie

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Chris. - Sep 1, 2004 11:54 am (#297 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
hollie-wood, the door opens whenever JKR has something important to reveal. The door has opened twice, firstly with the "Half-blood Prince" title and secondly with the description of the character.

I wonder if HbP is about why did Gryffindor and Slytherin fall out of friendship with each other. It was mentioned in "Chamber" but was never explained in detail.

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captain teagué - Sep 1, 2004 12:00 pm (#298 of 476)

Oooh Prongs I like where you're going with that, I really do think the opening chapter will be a flashback because she says we will be able to tell it's been "brewing for the last thirteen years", but perhaps the entire book will be one of frequent flashbacks, that would be interesting... Sigh, I do hope there will be some lightheartedness in the book though what with Fred and George gone from Hogwarts, it won't be all "doom and gloom" will it??!

I know the door opens, I wondered when it opened last time! I managed to see the book title, after about half an hour of brick clicking, lol!

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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 1:36 pm (#299 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well Prongs and Hollie-wood I think that the opening chapter of HBP is going to be about the night that LV killed Lily and James in detail. I know that JKR's come very close to using a chapter like the opening chapter in HBP before and I've read somewhere that she wanted to use a chapter like the one in which the Potters died previously but for the life of me I can't remember where I've read that. Although it would be nice to see GG and SS and their fall out in the beginning of the book. It would explain alot from the start but I don't think JKR is going to make it that easy for us.

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Chris. - Sep 1, 2004 1:39 pm (#300 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yes, that's another possiblilty, and a very good one at that. I think it may be a revelation of Lily or James, along with a "vision" of the night they died.

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Steve Newton - Sep 1, 2004 1:42 pm (#301 of 476)
Librarian
How would JKR do this? How would Harry be able to see this? Since the first chapter everything has been seen through Harry's eyes.

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Chris. - Sep 1, 2004 1:45 pm (#302 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Perhaps, in the first chapter, Harry will be forced to "think" a memory of Voldemort's.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 1, 2004 1:48 pm (#303 of 476)

Not every first chapter has been seen through Harry's eyes. The first chapter of GoF wasn't. Neither was the first chapter of SS/PS.

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The One - Sep 1, 2004 1:50 pm (#304 of 476)

Open minded sceptic
How would JKR do this? How would Harry be able to see this? Since the first chapter everything has been seen through Harry's eyes.

Actually that is not quite true. In the first chapther of GoF there is a lot of details that could hardly be a part of Harry's dream.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 1, 2004 1:56 pm (#305 of 476)

In the first chapther of GoF there is a lot of details that could hardly be a part of Harry's dream.

Not only that, but it's explicitly told from the viewpoint of the Muggle (I forget his name) who Voldemort kills--up to the killing itself. And the first chapter of PS/SS alternates between being told from Uncle Vernon's point of view and an outside observor point of view.

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Steve Newton - Sep 1, 2004 1:56 pm (#306 of 476)

Librarian
Maddest, the first chapter of GOF is one of Harry's dreams. So in effect it is through Harry's eyes. (I don't think that this is clear from a first reading.) I think that I mentioned the first chapter of SS. Well, checking back I see that I didn't. My bad.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 1, 2004 2:07 pm (#307 of 476)

Yes, Steve, it's through Harry's eyes--if Harry sees through the Muggle's eyes and thinks through the Muggle's brain. There are descriptions of what the man sees and hears when he goes up to the house, from the viewpoint of someone who's utterly befuddled--Harry would have immediately recognized the word "Muggle" and the name "Wormtail." So it's arguably told from his (the Muggle's) point of view.

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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 2:14 pm (#308 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Maybe we see LV memory of that night through harry it wouldn't be the first time Harry see's LV memories. (I know that is not the right word for them but I can't think of what would be an appropriate expression right now)

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Star Crossed - Sep 1, 2004 2:20 pm (#309 of 476)

Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Harry's first game wasn't his PoV either. Otherwise, we'd never know about Neville and Ron fighting.

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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 2:27 pm (#310 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
I'm sorry but what is PoV? (I'm gonna feel really dumb after you tell me but I had to ask)

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Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 2:28 pm (#311 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Lady Black, Point of View.

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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 2:32 pm (#312 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Oh thank you so much Phoenix song. I knew I would feel dumb. LOL

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Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 2:37 pm (#313 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Don't feel dumb! My brain went numb when I first saw it and was thinking that it was a typo for PoA instead.

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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 2:41 pm (#314 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Same thing here Phoenix song but when I reread it with POA it didn't make sense.

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Chris. - Sep 1, 2004 2:49 pm (#315 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Here is the shortlist of the unknown character:

-The new Minister of Magic
-The new DADA teacher
-Godric Gryffindor (My own preference, )
-The Sorting Hat

Add more if there's any others.

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Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 2:52 pm (#316 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
LadyBlack, I have to laugh, because I did the same thing. I read the sentence with "Prisoner of Azkaban" and had to think "that can't be right!".

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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 1, 2004 3:12 pm (#317 of 476)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Prongs...my preference is also Godric Gryffindor. I may be called simple and acting on the obvious, but I just can't help but thinking of the Lion references. I have thought about it so much, that I no longer know if these references are subtle or obvious. But hey, I'm sticking with Good ol' Godric.

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Siriusly - Sep 1, 2004 3:23 pm (#318 of 476)

I always thought that Harry was inside the muggle during the scene in GOF. Just the way it is worded when he wakes up, "Voldemort's chair had swung around, and HE (emphasis mine), Harry, had seen what was sitting in it, he had felt a spasm of horror, which had awoken him....or had that been the pain in his scar?"

My friend thought he was seeing through the eyes of Nagini.

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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 1, 2004 3:28 pm (#319 of 476)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I think Harry was looking on from a 3rd person view. I believe he saw bits of it, as I doubt he would have known about Riddle's parents being killed.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 1, 2004 4:11 pm (#320 of 476)

The bit of history about Riddle's parents being killed is given in what I would call an outside observer point of view. The reader is being given the background, which the Muggle knows, which gives the reader the impression of perceiving everything through him. Harry wouldn't know the background, and, while he might see the scene through the man's eyes, he probably wouldn't experience the man's confusion at "Muggle" and "Wormtail," or know whose house this was. I don't think the reader is really given the impression of perceiving anything through Harry until Chapter 2, when he wakes up.

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Siriusly - Sep 1, 2004 4:58 pm (#321 of 476)

The only part I think he witnessed was in the room with Volde.

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Madame Kulich - Sep 1, 2004 6:14 pm (#322 of 476)

So, back to the clue... Who thinks it Remus and why? I am interested to hear more about this theory.

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Lunar Tides - Sep 1, 2004 8:00 pm (#323 of 476)

hey everyone,

I don't mean to get off the subject but, what's the significance of Harry seeing the old man getting murdered by Voldemort? I mean, why Harry? I don't know why, but I have a feeling that maybe some sort of force is redirecting Harry's dreams in order to help Harry realize revelations about Voldemort...

Off topic - my friend shouted this out randomly: "Maybe Trevor the Toad will be kissed by Fleur and he will turn into the Half-Blood Prince!!!" Wow, that's a new way of looking at things...

One more thing: apart from Uric the Oddball being mentioned by Professor Binns, is there a statue of Uric in Hogwarts?

Always accepting criticism,

-Chanuel

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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 8:16 pm (#324 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
I have the beginning of a theory here I posted it on some of the other threads but since you asked about JKR comment/ questions I thought it might be helpful Please expand:

OK I'm not sure where exactly where to put this maybe you all can help me. I was reading a few posts back about the beginning of OoP when Harry had the dream about LV. This is what came to mind. What if LV by killing his father GAINED some sort of protection/ immortality. In the chapter it talks about how the whole family was dead Mr. & Mrs. Riddle ( his father, step-mother) and son (which I can only assume is LV half brother). I don't think that JKR would just add this information with out reason. Maybe she was showing us a clue. Please let me know what you lot think please I'm going crazy over here thinking about it. Sorry if it's a little off topic.

P.S. It was clarified to me earlier on another thread that the people killed were LV father and his parents.

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madame hooch - Sep 1, 2004 9:03 pm (#325 of 476)

Lady Black.that is a very interesting theory you have about VM gaining immortality by killing his father. JKR said we should focus on why VM didn't die when his curse back-fired when trying to kill Harry and why DD didn't kill VM in the Ministry of Magic.She said DD didn't give the real reason.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 1, 2004 9:48 pm (#326 of 476)

DD didn't give the real reason? Is there one, other than that Voldemort can only be killed by Harry?

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 1, 2004 11:37 pm (#327 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
If as some of us believe, immortality lives in you through your children and following generations. Then why would the theory of VM gaining immortality by killing his father hold water. There is a difference in beliving in immortality, how shall I put this, through the self as opposed to "of" the self.

Grrr.. I know what I'm thinking, and can't express it.

EDIT: I can understand the concept of symbloically killing the father figure so the son may live. But in Harry's case he really has no father to turn his anger towards. He had Sirius, he thought he had Dumbledore, but after a year of being refused to be looked in the eye, that is going to take some getting over, so who really is the father figure he's supposed to kill (overcome, come into his own)?

Please excuse all these funny little marks, ,.:;', I'm feeling, not thinking.

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Magical Max - Sep 2, 2004 4:23 am (#328 of 476)

What if Harry looks into a Penseive and meets the new character/HBP. We know how wizards use a Penseive to store memories but JKR has never said how long these memories can float around. What if DD has a collection of Pensieves from the previous headmasters containing a selection of some of the more important points in wizarding history.

Harry is given the penseive that belonged to GG to learn something relevant to the upcoming struggle, and in doing so, meets the HBP

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lobelia - Sep 2, 2004 6:55 am (#329 of 476)

I agree with you and had posted something like that before, however, few other people responded. I am inclined to think that many disagreed with my speculation. Perhaps because of the Penseive being used so often in other books.

A note onto what Voldemort did to keep himself alive: I was re-reading GOF and noticed that Wormtail had to milk Nagini to provide nourishment for little man Voldemort and he must do it very regularly. Any ideas why?

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Madame Librarian - Sep 2, 2004 8:04 am (#330 of 476)

While on this train of though, I'll remind everyone of the use of his father's bone in the GoF graveyard scene to make the reviving potion. What's that all about?

Also, do we know exactly when Riddle, Jr. murdered his dad and grandparents? The book just says "a young man" I think. Wait...I'll check (I love when I work at the 2nd floor desk, I have all the books!).

[**Insert filler music here. How about "Hedwig's Theme?"**]

OK, GoF, chp. 1. Townspeople agree that it all happened "Fifty years before, at daybreak on a fine summer's morning...a maid had entered the drawing room to find all three Riddles dead."

Frank Bryce is accused of murder. He testifies over and over that the only thing he saw near the house the day of the Riddles' deaths "...had been a teenage boy, a stranger, dark-haired and pale. Nobody else in the village had seen any such boy, and the police were quite sure that Frank had invented him."

It's 1944. Tom has just graduated from Hogwarts, though curiously the Lex doesn't use the term "graduate," they say "left Hogwarts." When I have time, I must see if this is the same usage throughout the books; might mean something very important. Hey, what if he didn't graduate, was expelled? It's summer and he's lurking around Little Hangleton. It's during the war (WWII), maybe during the Blitz. Was it hard or easy for a Wizard to travel around abroad?

Oi, just a bunch of questions after all. No conclusions. I am far afield from this thread's intended topic other than the need to fix in my head the timing of Tom's murder of his father and how this may affect the grand scheme of his life after that. OK, mission accomplished for me. Don't want to risk further topic drift.

Ciao. Barb

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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 2, 2004 8:09 am (#331 of 476)

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I'm not sure if the Head Boy would have been expelled. He would have to have been a model student in the first place to even become Head Boy, so I think it is most likely after he finished Hogwarts. Commited the murders, then left to go "underground", and recuit some followers.

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Steve Newton - Sep 2, 2004 8:14 am (#332 of 476)

Librarian
Madame Librarian, 50 years before? About the time Grindelwald went down? Coincidence?

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Phoenix song - Sep 2, 2004 8:53 am (#333 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I think that the lack of "graduation" from Hogwarts is a British thing. Here in the US we "graduate" from high school with a big ceremony. I think that I've heard, (and I could be mistaken) that they don't graduate from high school in Britain. I think that they just finish and "leave". If this is true, then there wouldn't be any mystery about why Riddle "left" Hogwarts as all seventh years do at the end. If I'm correct, then it would also explain why we haven't seen any graduations in the previous books. (Surely Harry would have seen or spoken to the Weasley parents when they arrived for Percy's graduation if there had been one.)

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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 2, 2004 9:17 am (#334 of 476)

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You are correct. Once you finish school, you simply just leave the building, in my case, run from the building.

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Lady Black99 - Sep 2, 2004 9:38 am (#335 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
TwinklingBlueEyes "If as some of us believe, immortality lives in you through your children and following generations."

Exactly his fathers and Grandparents immortality. LV immortality would live in his children. (Thank god there aren't any of his evil spawn out there). Either way I didn't mean that to become immortal you have to kill your parents what I meant to say was that maybe that was part of a dark evil spell to make himself something other than human in other words to live longer. Oh and Harry would not need to kill a father figure to become immortal because he would not choose to do so. (at least I don't think he would)

This theory might not make sense but I was just pointing out that JKR made sure we knew about LV killing his father and grandparents. She could have easily written LV in an abandoned house but no she chose to write about him in his fathers house. I think that she did this on purpose to clue us into something bigger. Please let me know your thoughts.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 2, 2004 12:23 pm (#336 of 476)

If Harry has a father figure to kill/overcome, could it be... Voldemort?

Okay, so Voldemort isn't his father--JKR herself says that would be too Star Wars cliche. But Voldemort did make Harry into who he is. Gave him the scar, transferred some of his own power to Harry, such as parseltongue and the curious fact that the perfect wand for Harry is the "brother" of Voldemort's wand. Took his parents from him so that he grew up the way he did. Made him into the "boy who lived."

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Lady Black99 - Sep 2, 2004 12:26 pm (#337 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
No one is claiming that LV is Harry's father or father figure I think you misunderstand. Were debating TR/LV's immortality. I suggested that he may have performed some dark magic and gained some immortality when he killed his father and grandparents.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 2, 2004 12:45 pm (#338 of 476)

Lady Black, I was responding to what Twinkling Blue Eyes said in post #329 (I think referencing what someone else had said) about "the concept of symbolically killing the father so the son may live." If LV did indeed gain immortality through dark magic that involved killing his parents... and Harry has been protected so far by his mother's blood because his mother died to save him... then some of this kinship magic may be at work in the way that Harry will eventually destroy Voldemort. Voldemort isn't Harry's father, and certainly isn't his father figure in the sense of having a parental role in his life. However, Voldemort did play a major role in making Harry who he is today. That in turn could create a variation on the killing of the father so that the son may live.

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Lady Black99 - Sep 2, 2004 3:03 pm (#339 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Thank you Maddest Dragon. Now I understand what you were trying to say.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 2, 2004 5:45 pm (#340 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Lady Black, "Either way I didn't mean that to become immortal you have to kill your parents", I realise that is not what you meant. As to what I said, please ignore it completly. In retrospect, after rereading my post I don't even know what I was trying to say, so please don't waste any time trying to figure it out. :-)

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Veritaserum - Sep 2, 2004 6:02 pm (#341 of 476)

Go Jays!
Okay, I'm still not getting how killing his father would gain immortality for Voldy. It would be like reverting backwards. Tom Riddle Sr. has already given his dna, etc. to TR Jr. It would make more sense for him to kill a child to get immortality, but Voldy didn't have a child.... did he? But he did try to kill a child, so maybe it had something to do with that. Anyone else see what I'm saying?

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conor maloney - Sep 2, 2004 6:40 pm (#342 of 476)

o.k so me and my sister were sitting down and a diner and talking about the HBP and what we think might be in it . then i mentoned that he might be the new DADA teacher but she replied no i think Snape will be the new DADA teacher ( because of the hard role to get it filled by the reputation of the job) and the new teacher will be a potions teacher.

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Tomoé - Sep 2, 2004 7:40 pm (#343 of 476)

Back in business
I myself think Snape will get the post on book 7 because we can't afford to let him be killed, sacked, insane or worst than death before the end of the series. ^_^

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 2, 2004 8:54 pm (#344 of 476)

Maybe the next book will introduce us to a new DADA teacher and a new, or substitute, Potions teacher. I've been puzzling over this one because it looks as if JKR has set Harry up to become an Auror. Now, to become an Auror he needs a N.E.W.T. in Potions. And Snape only admits students who've scored an O in their O.W.L.s. Harry may have scraped a passing grade in the O.W.L., but there's absolutely no way he could've gotten an O. People have given all kinds of theories as to why Snape might relax his standards. Well, here's my theory: Snape, like Hagrid in Book 5, will be away at the beginning of the year in Book 6. Maybe he'll be injured or missing in action; maybe, as a former Death Eater who failed to rejoin Voldemort, he'll run into some major trouble; maybe he'll be away on a secret mission. It will be uncertain at the beginning of the year whether Snape will return or not, so there will be another teacher covering Potions, who will change the rules about who to admit to the N.E.W.T. class. However, we won't have seen the last of Snape. He'll return, either to take up teaching Potions again or to teach DADA.

And, since this is the real subject of the thread, I think it's equally likely that the description is of the new DADA teacher, the Potions sub, or a third new character.

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Magical Llama - Sep 2, 2004 9:01 pm (#345 of 476)

Maddest Dragon wrote: Harry may have scraped a passing grade in the O.W.L., but there's absolutely no way he could've gotten an O.

I was under the impression that Harry and Neville did much better on their O.W.L's with out Snape around. I think Harry and Nevile managed an O.

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scully jones - Sep 2, 2004 9:12 pm (#346 of 476)

yeah right
I think Snape will still be potions teacher in the sixth book. He might get a passing mention at the end of the seventh book, such as: "Snape never did get the defense against the dark arts position" or "Snape finally became the defense against the dark arts teacher".

I don't think it will happen within the series at all.

And I do think both Harry and Neville will be in NEWT potions, if only to irk Snape more.

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Tomoé - Sep 3, 2004 6:49 am (#347 of 476)

Back in business
In the Muggle world, there is often a way to re-do a the whole year lessons and the final exam of important subjects like math or language if you failed the first time. If Harry or Neville didn't manage to scrape an O, there is certainly a way in the wizarding world to re-do the test.

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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 3, 2004 9:46 am (#348 of 476)

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I have the feeling that after what happened at the end of OotP, Dumbledore will order Snape to continue to teach him potions. Dumbledore will probably be aware of Harry's career ambitions, and will want to help him as much as possible...expecially now that Sirius - his father figure - has gone.

I also think that Dumbledore will want Snape and Harry to get along... and will probably try and set Serverus to at least attempt to bond with Harry - if he actually does it, it is anyone's guess. Dumbledore will want the members of the Order to get along, and there's no question of Harry's importance about the Order, and if Snape's missions are secret, then he obviously has an important role to play as well. I think Snape will stay as the potions Master.

Just thinking, I would love to see Dumbledore take a class... DADA, or even Harry's occulemcy. Dumbledore would be brillant...those pupils fifty years ago who Dumbledore taught for transfiguration were the lucky ones.

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Tomoé - Sep 3, 2004 10:37 am (#349 of 476)

Back in business
I don't think it will be a good idea to force Spane to take Harry in Potions, he will hate the kid even more, not even able to get an O by himself, having all his father defaults but none of his qualities.

Harry need a real O or Snape will really become umbearable. Unless Snape decide to follow Dumbledore's order, but place Harry at the far end of the room away from any other students, forbiden to ask any question. Learn if you can kid, but I will not help you.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 3, 2004 4:22 pm (#350 of 476)

Considering how poorly the Occlumency lessons went I don't think DD will force Snape to teach Harry unless Harry earned a spot in the class. Snape is a very exacting teacher. Harry probably did a lot better on the test than he thought. Though I would love to see DD teaching the DADA class, I think the new person is the DADA teacher. LPO

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hellocello3200 - Sep 3, 2004 6:52 pm (#351 of 476)
Richard Reid, I like your idea about DD teaching a class. I had been musing about the years when he was teaching and then came to wonder if he might end up teaching DADA to keep another Umbridge out. I don't think he could do it with out the help of a time turner though.

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Madame Librarian - Sep 3, 2004 7:14 pm (#352 of 476)

Is there a small chance that Snape may soften his harsh opinion of Harry (and Neville for that matter) when he hears of the details of the battle at the MoM? I don't mean in a toady-ing way that Fudge might do, but a sincere touch of respect for the bravery displayed and the risks taken.

Snape might begrudgingly acknowledge their feat by agreeing when DD repsectifully requests him to reassess their grades in Potions.

Not a very exciting way of solving the NEWTS problem, but it does work given character the of Snape's feelings about things.

Ciao. Barb

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Lady Black99 - Sep 3, 2004 7:22 pm (#353 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
I wonder waht happened when Snape heard about Sirius Black's death.

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Siriusly - Sep 3, 2004 7:29 pm (#354 of 476)

How about: It's my party and I'll cry if I want to. No not Snape.

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hellocello3200 - Sep 3, 2004 7:33 pm (#355 of 476)

It would be interesting to see how Snape talks about Sirius after he dies. If how he acts about James is any indication, I'd say that he will continue to make snide remarks. That might really set off Harry and trigger a big knock-down drag-out brawl between the two that seems to have been brewing all these years.

I guess I should say something about the HBP. I wouldn't be surprised if It was DD. Allot of people have been saying stuff about how the HBP could be a historical character. Maybe the HBP will be but is also still alive. I would like to know more about DD past. We don't know anything about his home-life growing up or what he was up to in his younger years. I always pictured him as an orphan running around wild in London with a bunch of criminals but that is probably because I was reading Oliver Twist and PS at the same time and they got a little muddle in my head. I always picture Bill Sikes looking like Snape.

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Ann - Sep 3, 2004 7:35 pm (#356 of 476)

hellocello: I would like to know more about DD past. We don't know anything about his home-life growing up or what he was up to in his younger years.

And then, of course, there are those of us who believe he started out as Ron.... (Read the theory--it isn't as nuts as it sounds initially!)

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Siriusly - Sep 3, 2004 7:36 pm (#357 of 476)

I was thinking about that chess game the other thread is dedicated to. What if the White King is the HBP that the gang has to defeat in order for Harry to go one on one with Volde. That would mean the HBP is on the bad side not the good side.

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Lady Black99 - Sep 3, 2004 7:37 pm (#358 of 476)

23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Ann where can we read about this theory?

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hellocello3200 - Sep 3, 2004 7:38 pm (#359 of 476)

Ann where is this theory? Now that would be weird, but anything goes when your reading fantasy I guess.

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Ann - Sep 3, 2004 7:43 pm (#360 of 476)

Lady Black, It's not a Forum essay, but there is a link to it on the founding post in the "Chess play/Ron is Dumbledore essay." It's really two essays--one analyzing the chess game in PS/SS as a foretelling of the whole series, and a second with the Ron is Dumbledore arguments (which include the chess game). It should really be called Dumbledore is Ron, though, because the idea is that Ron gets sent back in time and then grows to becomes Dumbledore. There is a surprising amount of evidence for it, I thought, although most people on the Forum still don't seem to like it much.

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Phoenix song - Sep 3, 2004 7:43 pm (#361 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Madame Librarian: I was wondering about what you've said about Snape revising Harry and Neville's potion grades. I may be wrong, but I assumed that the determining factor as to whether the students entered NEWT level classes was their OWL scores. I had always associated the OWLs with the college entrance tests (ACT or SAT) that high school students take. I thought that it may be possible for Harry to get mediocre scores in his potions classes but still be placed in advanced classes on the basis of his OWL scores. Does this make any sense?

I know that I didn't push myself nearly hard enough in high school, and my grades were good but not stellar. My ACT scores came back much higher than my grade point average would have suggested, and I was placed in advanced college courses. I had always assumed that this may be the case with the NEWT scores as well.

Does anybody know how the placement of NEWT level courses work? I haven't found anything either way.

Thanks, Barbie

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Madame Librarian - Sep 3, 2004 7:48 pm (#362 of 476)

Phoenix song, I, too, don't claim to know a lot about the complexities of scoring and grades, I just know that at some point, in order to take advanced Potions, Harry and Neville either have to get good OWL marks or have the permission of the Potions professor, our own dear Severus. If he is requested to let them into his class by DD (who seems to be able to get Snape to do things he'd rather not do), Snape might say yes, rationalizing his uncharacteristic niceness by allowing that the two boys were stupid and rash, but did exhibit cleverness and bravery. And, he may really feel that way, too. Who knows with Snape?

Ciao. Barb

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Phoenix song - Sep 3, 2004 7:56 pm (#363 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Madame Librarian: You're absolutely correct! You never know what Snape is going to come up with next. He may decide to give the guys a chance just so he'll have them to torture for the next two years. It would also make him look like a bigger person if he put aside his personal dislikes and granted Harry this favor.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 3, 2004 9:35 pm (#364 of 476)

Here's an idea: the description is of someone who's taken a potion to transform his appearance. Not polyjuice, but a potion to do to a non-metamorphmagus what a metamorph can do at will. So it's an example of something that happens in advanced Potions class.

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From Venus - Sep 4, 2004 9:10 am (#365 of 476)

Less than three months to HBP!!!!
Hello everyone! I've just finished reading all the posts in this thread. Wow! You guys are good! So many interesting theories! If you don't mind, I'd like to humbly add another one. (Actually, I can't even take credit for it, my sister came up with it).

What if DD has to leave Hogwarts in order to do something more important and time consuming? What if the new clue is the new Hogwarts headmaster? DD may become the new MoM or have to spend more time underground preparing to protect against LV. He didn't seem to be too upset about having to leave in OoP. He had lots to do that he couldn't do while still headmaster. Only this time, his replacement is someone who he, himself, hand picks. And possibly, this person could then, also, be the HBP. What do you think?

-Mary From Venus

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hellocello3200 - Sep 4, 2004 10:06 am (#366 of 476)

Well Venus, it wouldn't be the first time that DD left. I would suspect that if DD left volunterily, he would keep one foot in Hogwarts by way of loyal teachers. I would doubt that the new headmaster would be a completly unknown person though. I would guess that Prof McGonagoll would become headmaster like she did in CoS. The new character could then be a transfiguration teacher, but that would mean two new teachers in one book. I think that DD wouldn't leave Hogwarts if he thought the students were in danger. I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but I think that DD may have been coming into his office in OotP becuase it was mentioned that the office had locked itself. If that is true, then he could also have been able to vist McGonagol in CoS and been able to get to Hogwarts quickly in the event of an emergency.

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Ann - Sep 4, 2004 12:09 pm (#367 of 476)

hellocello, I don't think DD visited his office during his expulsion in OotP, since the portraits ask Harry, when he arrives from the MoM, whether his presence means DD is coming back. They remark that it's been boring without him, so I don't think they've seen him since his expulsion.

I don't think DD would leave Hogwarts at this point, though. Harry, and Harry's education, is too important. After all, it was essentially to prevent Harry's expulsion that he left in OotP.

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From Venus - Sep 4, 2004 12:20 pm (#368 of 476)

Less than three months to HBP!!!!
Hello Ann. Well, I see what you mean. However, since DD can't really look Harry strait in the eyes anyways, then maybe he figures he would be more useful somewhere else.

And, in response to hellocello, a new headmaster could be unknown to us, but not necessarily unknown to DD. I don't know, what do you think?

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Good Evans - Sep 5, 2004 3:19 am (#369 of 476)

Practically perfect in every way
I like the train of thought - but I am not convinced that DD will not return to the school as headmaster now that LV is out in the open. I think that part of harry's protection concerns Dumbledore and his being at Hogwarts. If DD is not there I wonder if this makes Harry and Hogwarts vulnerable. Harry is more protected than perhaps even he knows, I took this to mean more than the protegeo charm on 4 privet drive or whatever it is that DD created binding Harry's protection to Aunt P, but also that while at Hogwarts he is untouchable under Dumbledores "crooked nose".

maybe DD will pop in and out more this year?

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Phoenix song - Sep 5, 2004 5:15 am (#370 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Good Evans: I agree with you. I think that most people assume that Harry is protected around Dumbledore just because he is a powerful wizard. I don't think that DD is that cocky regarding his abilities. I think that Dumbledore has placed a protective charm around Harry whenever he is near him. To me, this would make the most sense regarding Voldemort's absolute belief that Harry must be out from underneath Dumbledore's "crooked nose" in order to kill/harm Harry. I don't see Voldemort shying away from attacking Harry at Hogwart's only because he fears a showdown with Dumbledore. I think that he knows that he can't harm Harry within Dumbledore's presence.

Perhaps this is the explanation to Dumbledore's curious statement regarding Barty Crouch, Jr. Dumbledore said that he knew that the real Mad Eye Moody would never have removed Harry from his presence after what had happened at the end of the Tournament.

"The real Moody would not have removed you from my sight after what happened tonight. The moment he took you, I knew-and I followed." (GoF, Ch 35, pg. 680 U.S. ed.)

Why would the real Moody have not removed Harry from DD's presence? It seems to me that it has more to do with needing a strong wizard around to protect him, after all, Mad Eye is no slouch at magic himself. I think that the real Mad Eye would have known the magic charms that Dumbledore had placed around Harry to keep Harry safe while he was in his presence.

These are just my thoughts, of course, please feel free to disagree.

Barbie

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Good Evans - Sep 5, 2004 5:37 am (#371 of 476)

Practically perfect in every way
thanks Barbie - I think you have taken this further, with which I agree with your reasonings about Moody and Dumbledore's comments

Julie

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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 5, 2004 7:18 am (#372 of 476)

There are some good ideas in these posts previous to mine. However, I think Dumbledore will not leave the school unless he absolutely has to. I say this because of what Dumbledore told Harry in the Lost Prophecy chapter of OotP.

He said that he cared too much about Harry. He said he was behaving exactly like Voldemort expected fools who love to behave. I think this was Dumbledore admitting that he wanted to stay with Hogwarts even if it caused more problems in the WW that he might be able to prevent.

I could be wrong since the ideas presented are valid. I just feel like Dumbledore may take more of a father figure role in the coming books since Harry has to become very strong, very quickly.

My guess about the new character is that he is a friend of Dumbledore's that comes in as the new DADA teacher. Either that or he is someone that Dumbledore knew in the past and Harry is able to observe him through the pensieve.

I don't think the new character could be an historical figure observed through the pensieve. The pensieve requires someone to put their thoughts into it to be able to observe them objectively. If there is not a character that has that memory, then the memory can't be put into the pensieve.

Can a ghost or memory (such as Riddle's diary) put thoughts into a pensieve?

Sorry about the rambling.

Betelgeuse

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DJ Evans - Sep 5, 2004 11:14 am (#373 of 476)

Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
Phoenix song -- Good comments/idea there on DD knowing it wasn't the real Moody when he removed him from his sight!!!! That sentence always had me pondering on just by what he meant there. But you have read into it what I think is the answer!! Take 10 points for your house!!!

Later, Deb

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Phoenix song - Sep 5, 2004 12:49 pm (#374 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Thanks DJ Evans! My first ever house points! I'm all aflutter.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 1:53 pm (#375 of 476)

I don't think the new character could be an historical figure observed through the pensieve. The pensieve requires someone to put their thoughts into it to be able to observe them objectively. If there is not a character that has that memory, then the memory can't be put into the pensieve. - Bettelgeuse Black

There may not be a character living who has that memory. But memories placed in a pensieve probably remain after their owner's death. So the memories of someone who died long ago could still be swirling around in a pensieve, and could be observed. Maybe Harry will find a pensieve among Sirius's belongings, containing the memories of one of Sirius's ancestors, and they will include this character, who was a historical figure.

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Warty Harris - Sep 5, 2004 2:34 pm (#376 of 476)

Would the House of Black admit to being descended from a Half Blood Prince? Would they keep the belongings of a half blood in their household? If the Blacks are descended from the Half Blood Prince that means Malfoy is as well. If the Half Blood Prince is Godric Gryffindor then this means Malfoy is at least one Heir of Gryffindor.

They burned Sirius off the tapestry for lesser reasons.....

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 4:02 pm (#377 of 476)

Who said the Half Blood Prince was an ancestor of the Blacks? I suggested that this character might appear in the memories of a Black ancestor, not that he necessarily was one. Nor that he's necessarily the half blood prince.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 5, 2004 4:50 pm (#378 of 476)

Beletgeuse I agree with you that the new character is probably a friend of DD who is brought in as the new DADA teacher. It fits the pattern of Lupin and Mad Eye.

I think DD will stay at Hogwarts. He refused to be Minister in the past. He knows that only Harry can defeat LV. He probably knows LV better than anyone. It would be in the WW best interest for him to stay at Hogwarts and help Harry. I think Hogwarts and DD enhance each others powers. LPO

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Warty Harris - Sep 5, 2004 5:52 pm (#379 of 476)

I still do not see why any Black ancestor would leave a memory of a half blood in their pensieve. Mama Black would have blasted that out long ago if she knew. Anything Half-Blood is not going to fair very well in the Black house.

If it is anyone else besides a historical figure why would we need a pensieve? The half blood prince could be a modern day person or one from the past but they are still half blood and unwelcome there.

Maybe I do know how his person would be related to the Blacks and in pensieve unless it is a historical person no longer alive. I do not see why we need to be introduced to a person as this unless it is the Half Blood Prince but I sometimes go in through the out door.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 6:10 pm (#380 of 476)

Warty Harris, think. A pensieve stores all kinds of memories. If an ancestor of the Blacks was in the same room as this character (who you seem convinced is the Half Blood Prince; I'm not so sure), and placed his or her memory of that day in the pensieve, then there it is. They wouldn't have to like this character to leave a memory that includes him lying around. Snape left a memory of James in his pensieve, not because he wanted anything to do with James, but because James was part of that particular memory.

Mamma Black would have blasted that out long ago if she knew

A pensieve is not a tapestry. We don't even know if parts of a memory can be removed. In any case, it's possible that no one has ever looked at that memory before. Mamma Black might not have known about it.

Furthermore, this character (or the half blood prince, if they aren't the same person) might not be a historical figure at all, and in that case you're right, we wouldn't need a pensieve. Bettelgeuse brought up the pensieve as a way that a historical character could be seen. No one is saying that this is definitely someone seen in a pensieve. We're only suggesting that it might be.

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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 5, 2004 6:40 pm (#381 of 476)

On the pensieve,

In both cases where we've seen the pensieve used, it was a temporary storage place where certain memories were "deposited" for objective viewing or hiding.

Snape was hiding the memories from Harry. If the memories are removed from Snape's mind to be put in the pensieve, then Snape no longer remembers them until he puts them back in his head. That way, Harry can't see his embarrassing moments.

Because of this implied effect of removing memories, I think someone would not want his or her memories to stay there. Of course, there are some things we want to forget but why not just remove them and throw them away (if you can)?

I think one of the previous headmasters residing in Dumbledore's office might be able to put memories into the pensieve. However, I have not seen any evidence of "picture people" interacting with the rest of the world outside of the frames. Their world seems to be contained inside the frames except for sound.

Oh well, I have to go. Betelgeuse

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librarian314 - Sep 5, 2004 7:10 pm (#382 of 476)

Hey all!

Whilst traveling back from visiting my folks today, my husband made a suggestion as to who the description could be referencing. He thought that it might be a description of the new Minister of Magic. (He really thinks it's probably the new DADA teacher. :-) )

As I hadn't seen anyone mention that this description could be the new MoM, I'd thought I'd toss it out there for the sake of completeness. The more darts we throw, the more likely one will be the bulls eye! ;-)

Y'all take care!
*michelle the librarian** (and her hubby)

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 7:18 pm (#383 of 476)

Betelgeuse, interesting train of thought. Why do you suppose Dumbledore put those memories of his into the penseive?

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Siriusly - Sep 5, 2004 7:58 pm (#384 of 476)

The clue is James. and Lupin. Joined as one. The Lion and the Grey Wolf. Spirit and salt.

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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 6, 2004 7:49 am (#385 of 476)

Good morning Maddest Dragon (at least here),

Dumbledore said himself that he was trying to look for connections that he couldn't see while the memories were in his head. He said something to the effect that his mind got full and couldn't process anything well.

I believe he was trying to observe the memories from another point of view to see if he could make a connection that he wouldn't see otherwise.

Betelgeuse.

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Warty Harris - Sep 6, 2004 8:55 am (#386 of 476)

I meant to say I don't know how this person would be related to the Blacks in my previous post.

Maddest Dragon - I do see your point. For instance it could be a person unrelated to the Half Blood Prince but one we can only see in the pensieve. Like Phineas Nigellus. An older character even that was friends or rivals with the Half Blood Prince and has a memory of fight between the two. It is possible but most likely the Blacks wouldn't associate with a well known Half Blood, and if they could get rid of the memory they would have.

I would think (and this is only a theory) that you would want your memories out of the pensieve unless you didn't want someone to see them like Snape, or wanted to show them something like Dumbledore. If someone had left a memory there then it could be removed and viewEd by others.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 6, 2004 2:01 pm (#387 of 476)

Of course a memory left there could be viewed by others. Maybe whoever left it didn't care. Or, more likely, got called away before they could do anything about it and never got a chance to go back to it. It's quite possible that this character, who appears in the memory, was just part of the background to the person whose memory it was, but for some reason draws Harry's attention when he looks at the memory.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 3:12 pm (#388 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Siriusly, "Lets try this:" I think even with all your metaphors and allusions to alchemy, astronomy, etc. this may be bordering the realm of fanfic. I noticed you had hinted to finding a reference to the 12 uses of dragons blood elsewhere today. It would be so nice if you would share that reference with us so that we would have some idea what you are alluding to? We all don't have the time or the resources to follow "clues" laid out by fellow posters. Sometimes we barely have time to keep up with the posts, let alone think about them. Not to mention all the clues left by JKR.

I would really appreciate your help in this matter.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 3:48 pm (#389 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Ooo K. While I am willing to agree that alchemy, astronomy, mythology, tarot, Egyptian runes and symbolism, and a whole wealth of resources JKR has incorporated into her work, it is still JKR's imagined world, and as far as I see is not based on an Indiania Jones type scene. I do not see them as the "one" or "divined" answer to the clues that have been laid out for us. May hap you are reading the series on a higher plane than I am, if so congratulations.

That said, and back on topic, I think with the physical description that JKR has given us it be the new DADA teacher. Dumbledore has called back the "old Order". I suspect that one of his old trusted friends could fill that position.

Edited for clarity, I hope.

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DJ Evans - Sep 6, 2004 4:08 pm (#390 of 476)

Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
Has it ever been said just "who" was running the old Order? Was it DD? What I'm wondering if the person who we got a sneak peak of might not be the original head of the Order? I was thinking it was DD who ran the original Order, but I could have dreamed that or just "assumed" it was DD. Anybody know?

Heck, a thought just popped in my head, but maybe the "new guy" is DD's or someone's father?

Later, Deb

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Siriusly - Sep 6, 2004 4:13 pm (#391 of 476)

Nor do I. I mearly suggest, as any other literature referenced in the forum, that this may also apply. May hap you are reading to much into my post.

I also noticed that I am not the only one you have been "snitty" with tonight. Thank God. I might have taken that personally.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 4:18 pm (#392 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Very nice thought DJ, I think we may be assuming it. In my minds eye though I see Dumbledore running the "old Order" 1945, Grinwauld, older people in the order. When he asked Molly, and no, I am not going to look up now, if her and Authur were with him, or something to that effect. It seemed to me that in first war, Authur and Molly may have been in the Order as young members, but had family responsibilities, therefore did not get into the "nitty-gritty" so to speak. But now their fledglings are almost grown, and Dumbledore is asking can he count on them more than before.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 4:20 pm (#393 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Mayhaps you are right. I may be seriously reading too much into your posts. Excuse the ring.

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Solitaire - Sep 6, 2004 9:49 pm (#394 of 476)

Twinkles, In OotP (Ch. 9, p 177, US ed.), Lupin tells Molly, "...we're much better off than we were last time, you weren't in the Order then, you don't understand, last time we were outnumbered twenty to one by the Death Eaterss and they were picking us off one by one ..."

He doesn't say if Arthur was in the Order or not. It might be assumed that with a wife and several young children at home to provide for, he might not have been. Just speculating, of course ...

Siriusly, regarding what Twinkles has said about clues and hints, may I add that some of us--okay, me--who don't really understand all of the alchemy references and explanations already feel a bit in the dark. I feel as though much of what is being written is in some sort of code I am unable to decipher. I can only speak for myself, but I appreciate clear, simply-worded explanations over cryptically-worded hints and clues. Others may certainly disagree.

Solitaire

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Cruella De Vil - Sep 7, 2004 1:14 am (#395 of 476)

Hi am new here and my theories are bit on the wild side. After reading all 397 posts on this thread so far (believe me, it had taken all morning", I got snitches of ideas here and there. decide to make it into one.What if Mr. Clue is not a human, in fact he might be an Animagus. A lion to be precise. "Old Lion" can mean old lion literally. It would explain the "rangy loping grace" remark and some one explained about McGonagall's specs as part of her animagi form. And does an Animagus have to have exact eyes as his human form. What I am groping for around here is this Animagi might be Dumbledore. Someone suggested he might a registered Animagi in the previous century. And as a previous transfiguration teacher it would make sense for him to be one. He is supposed to be the most powerful, afterall. And maybe in Book 6 he would display this form. I did think it was GG. But my theory since then has taken a beating since reading all the posts. By the way anyone want to bet LV's an animagi and his form is a serpent?

By the way, do JK really think like we all do? I mean is she really that deep? I have started re-reading all 5 my books and its really hard on the noodle.

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From Venus - Sep 7, 2004 7:58 am (#396 of 476)

Less than three months to HBP!!!!
Hello Myrtle! Your theory is interesting. However, if I understand you correctly, you think the clue actually is a lion. But it says, "He LOOKED rather like an old lion". Also, Prof McGonagel's glasses become glasses-shaped markings in her fur when she transfigures, she is not actually a cat wearing spectacles. The same goes for Rita Skeeter.

Actually, the lionish description pretty much points to the fact that this person probably is an animagus, but I doubt if it is DD. For some reason, I picture DD as something that flies, like a phoenix or maybe an eagle or hippogriff.

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Siriusly - Sep 7, 2004 3:55 pm (#397 of 476)

Solitaire, I appreciate what you are saying as I had no idea what alchemy was till I started to decipher the clue on disk two of SS/PS movie. The item I posted is a direct quote. I just wrote under it what I saw. I thought it was interesting in relation to the clue. That is the only reason I posted it. I would be happy to answer any questions, also my e mail is posted if more info is necessary.

I realize not alot of people understand the alchemy references but I thought that I would post the information for those who could or those who might be interested.Someone else mentioned that we keep all our alchemy references isolated to the alchemy thread, but I think that is very limiting. We do not aks that all literary references be isolated to the literary thread. Or ask that people start a "Psychological Aspects of HP" thread for all the psychology discussions that are made. I just see this as everyone having a chance to express thier different views on each subject. I do not, however, appreciate snide remarks made when my opinion differs from someone elses. If we all thought the same, what would be the point of the Lexicon?

Maybe I should change my name to Trelawney, since everyone thinks I have gone batty. I guess I also "seeing things" that others do not. St. Mungo's here I come.

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remiden - Sep 7, 2004 7:14 pm (#398 of 476)

It is not that you have "gone batty" it is that you think you have a clue or an answer, or whatever, and then post things that do no t make sense to the rest of the forum, and then get half offended when someone tells you so. If you have an idea, post it completly, not in little bits or pieces. Rowling posts clues one at the time and tries to get people to figure them out, and that is enough people doing so.

Even after reading oyur posts for a third time, I am still confused. I can understand what you are saying, but where do you get the idea that James is a lion, that Lupin is the wolf, (other than he is a werewolf) and where does this fit into the next book? Make one post saying why you think these things, and people may not get so snitty with you. People are already short on patience from Rowling's hints and clues without having other forumers post their own hints and clues to their maybe-true/maybe-false ideas.

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Siriusly - Sep 7, 2004 10:06 pm (#399 of 476)

You know I spent an hour writing out what I see and I just knew it was not good enough to explain. We will put it this way for now, and I will try tommorrow after work and homework. Started with the clue on disk two of movie 1, then I read tons of alchemy sites, printed off some things. made my own grids that show the metals and the processes and the non metals that make up our potion. Then I read the books. Harry is on an alchemic journey. I have verified it through book 5 (not done with 5 yet). He has been Lead all the way to Mercury in book 5 (that is why he kept "rising" by the way). Have page numbers and everything where the transformations take place. Those trying to achieve the Philosopher's Stone are called "seekers" in alchemy.

I will post it to another thread, as I am sure the mods would appreciate it. I will let you know.

Thanks for the honesty. In alchemy everything is secretive and in code and I forget that other people do not know to "seek".

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Phoenix song - Sep 7, 2004 10:12 pm (#400 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Siriusly: When you have all of your alchemy references together, I will be happy to read them and try my best to follow along. I'm not very proficient in math or science, so please keep that in mind when you're writing. Many of us haven't studied the alchemy theories because it seems to be so difficult to grasp and sort of mysterious.

Thanks, Barbie

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 401 to 450)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:52 am

Hollywand - Sep 8, 2004 6:54 am (#401 of 476)
Gryffindor
As the figure is described as a lion like figure with golden eyes, I am going to suggest that the person represents the "Griffin d' Or", the Golden Griffin, Godric Gryffindor.

In alchemical terms, the green lion (Voldy), the red lion(Harry), the golden lion (Godric).

For those of you interested in the alchemy topic, a group of about ten of us have been discussing the symbols on a thread. We strive to keep our discussion Rowling text based and accessable. Accio!

It is under "The World and the Harry Potter Phenomenon" in the underworld at the bottom of the threads.

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Madame Kulich - Sep 8, 2004 9:45 am (#402 of 476)

Siriusly, I say keep on posting your ideas to the best of your abilities, even if they are in pieces. Those of us who are patient and understanding will try to sort through them. For the rest, skip over them. Let's be patient with each other. If you can't say anything nice about someone or in response to someone's post...

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Siriusly - Sep 8, 2004 12:11 pm (#403 of 476)

Thanks Dalus. I appreciate the support. I realize that I am not that eloquent, but I am trying to explain myself. Maybe that is why I am taking Comp 1.

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Siriusly - Sep 8, 2004 6:34 pm (#404 of 476)

Written, posted, declared insane and destroyed. Let the real alchemists show you the way. I cannot. I will do as told and keep my alchemy to the other forum.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 9, 2004 9:08 am (#405 of 476)

I wonder if the description of the new character could be a reference to Albus Dumbledore at some point earlier in his life. Perhaps a scene from the Pensieve.

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Steve Newton - Sep 9, 2004 9:33 am (#406 of 476)

Librarian
Nathan, as I recall it the character has a limp. Do you think that, perhaps, the cause of the limp resulted in a scar that looks like a map? (I can't remember what Dumbledore's scar looks like. A map of the London Underground?)

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Tomoé - Sep 9, 2004 10:01 am (#407 of 476)

Back in business
Yes, Dumbledore's scar look like the London Underground. But the problem is we know DD's eyes are blue and his hair was auburn before it became grey, and that doesn't fit the description.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 9, 2004 10:02 am (#408 of 476)

Steve, yes I have thought that the scar Dumbledore has may be connected to the limp the character described has.

Tomoe, the reason I thought it was possible is that I had a cousin who hair was dark when he was young and lightened considerably as he aged.

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haymoni - Sep 9, 2004 11:56 am (#409 of 476)

What about the "loping" part?

That is what is really throwing me. People don't lope, do they?

As well as the use of the word "mane".

I really think it is a centaur. An older centaur.

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Steve Newton - Sep 9, 2004 11:59 am (#410 of 476)

Librarian
Haymoni, yes, people do lope. I would describe it as a sort of lazy running. In this instance it seems, to me, to convey almost a relaxed/self confident attitude.

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Madame Pomfrey - Sep 9, 2004 12:15 pm (#411 of 476)

Haymoni I looked it up.lope:to walk or ride with a steady,easy gait.to leap.Sounds kind of like Ludo Bagman.

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mike miller - Sep 9, 2004 12:41 pm (#412 of 476)

aka The Barmy Old Codger
I have interpretted the "lope" part of the description to be an easy, long stride. The mental picture JKR's description leaves me with someone who is tall, long legged.

I think the description is of a new character, someone we have not met. Now, who that could be is still very much in debate; HBP, new DADA teacher, new Minister of Magic, McClaggen. If I had to pick, I'd say it was Godric Gryffindor.

The only other idea I had was have we accounted for all of the original Order members? Have we heard a name of someone who fought the first time who is yet unaccounted for? I can't think of any, but that's a detail I could have missed.

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Steve Newton - Sep 9, 2004 12:56 pm (#413 of 476)

Librarian
Mike, there are several original Order member accounted for. As an old mystery reader never think someone is dead if you don't see the body. Sometimes not even then.

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Maollelujah - Sep 9, 2004 3:16 pm (#414 of 476)

What about the "loping" part?

That is what is really throwing me. People don't lope, do they?

As well as the use of the word "mane".

I really think it is a centaur. An older centaur.

This is exactly what I am thinking. Horses lope, throw in glasses and a mane and you have a centaur.

But then again people don't want an old beaten down horse-man, they want Godric Gryffindor to come out and say Harry is his heir.

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Chris. - Sep 9, 2004 3:18 pm (#415 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Maollelujah, not everyone. Well yes, I think it would be wonderful if Harry found he was the Heir of GG, but I don't want GG to tell him in person.

Hmmm... what if the Centuars capture Harry? and Harry has to meet the "Leader Of The Pack"?

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Solitaire - Sep 9, 2004 4:26 pm (#416 of 476)

If this is GG, are you suggesting a scene from the past ... a memory observed in someone's Pensieve ... or the man actually being alive at the present time (meaning he is either immortal or has returned from the grave)? Just wondering ...

Solitaire

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Chris. - Sep 9, 2004 4:35 pm (#417 of 476)

HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think JKR would do the return from the grave thing again, after Peter being actually alive, and then Voldie getting his body back.

I was thinking a spirit-y type thing, or even a portrait.

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Veritaserum - Sep 9, 2004 7:37 pm (#418 of 476)

Go Jays!
I'm still not convinced about the GG thing. I don't really want it to turn out to be someone who died a long time ago. I have a strong feeling that he is someone currently living, and that we haven't met him before, except maybe in passing. I said that old member of the order thing before, and I still think that has a good possibility.

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remiden - Sep 9, 2004 8:06 pm (#419 of 476)

We should bring up all the names of people Harry has seen in the different bars and shops in Diagon Ally. People from there seem to keep reappearing later in the books.

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Maddest Dragon - Sep 9, 2004 10:04 pm (#420 of 476)

A centaur with a mane? Horses have manes, yes, but centaurs have human heads, so they have hair like a human (of course, human hair is sometimes manelike, but I really don't think it's a centaur). I think we're intended to picture a lion. This person must be closely connected with Gryffindor in some way, whether or not he is Gryffindor. Hmmm.... given JKR's naming pattern, maybe he's Leo Coeur de Lion?

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Viola Intonada - Sep 10, 2004 7:04 am (#421 of 476)

I have been trying to follow this thread lately, but I am missing a crucial piece of information: the new clue. I have been trying to find it on the threads but have been unsuccessful finding the complete clue. Can someone please direct me to this info? Thanks

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Amilia Smith - Sep 10, 2004 8:09 am (#422 of 476)

Viola: Joelle quoted the entire new clue at the beginning of the thread. Just click on "New Clue, who?" at the bottom of the page, and it will take you right there. It starts out, "He looked rather like an old lion . . ."

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sjcuk13 - Sep 12, 2004 11:11 am (#423 of 476)

As my memory is really bad I will try mot to embarrass my self her but JKR said that there was a new character McSomething I think it is a description of him

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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 12, 2004 11:13 am (#424 of 476)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Mclaggan

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sjcuk13 - Sep 12, 2004 11:28 am (#425 of 476)

Yes that's the one I think the description could be him.

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Solitaire - Sep 12, 2004 12:38 pm (#426 of 476)

sjcuk13 ... whereEVER did you find that picture?

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Solitaire - Sep 12, 2004 1:11 pm (#427 of 476)

Actually, it reminded me of this disclaimer on the Alivans.com site: PLEASE NOTE: Our brooms are recommended for ages 5 and up and unfortunately they DO NOT FLY! They are intended for use as a role-playing toy or as a beautiful display piece. We encourage you to enjoy our brooms in many ways but again...please realize they DO NOT FLY. Please do not attempt to use them for that purpose.

Darn!! And I was planning to fly mine, too! It does kind of make me wonder, though ... did someone actually think they were real and attempt to fly?

Solitaire

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sjcuk13 - Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm (#428 of 476)

lol you would be surprised of how stupid people seem to be

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Mynn - Sep 12, 2004 3:20 pm (#429 of 476)

There's a whole lot of signs for stupid people. Anyhow, to get back on topic, Maybe the description is of Mclaggin, but I really don't think so. JK WANTS us to think it's him, releasing two clues that close together about one character... I don't think so.

She better release something new soon... has anybody else noticed things are kind of slowing down here on the forum? We need something new to talk about.

OH THE HUMANITY!

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Solitaire - Sep 12, 2004 4:27 pm (#430 of 476)

Yes, I was wondering about that. McClaggan and the "lion man" might be the same person ... or they might be two different people.

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Phoenix song - Sep 12, 2004 4:42 pm (#431 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
These signs really do make you wonder about the brains of some people. It's like that warning tag on an iron that warns you not to iron your clothes while you're wearing them. I would always think, "now who would ever do something that dense?" Then a girl in my 10th grade American History class actually ironed a shirt that she was still wearing. Not a good idea, to say the least.

My husband drives trucks, and he says that there are signs in this one particular state alerting the drivers that it is illegal to break traffic laws. Well, duh! It's illegal to break a law?

Anyway, back on topic, we know that JKR isn't keen on giving out too many hints. She also seems fond of answering questions in a way that often only leads to further questions. So I don't expect her next clue will be a further description of this new character. Her next "new" clue will probably be something totally different. She wouldn't want us to guess too much, and we're all so "clever" at dissecting her clues.

I'm leaning towards the new character being Godric Gryffindor as seen in a penseive or a mirror. I'm willing to prove myself wrong, though, if only I could get a glance at her notes! Her office must have some fierce security in place to stifle those eager readers!

Barbie

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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 12, 2004 4:45 pm (#432 of 476)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Same as me Phoenix Song. GG just feels right, and I am to eager to envisage GG before any another new characters.

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sjcuk13 - Sep 13, 2004 4:50 am (#433 of 476)

Basically I look them all up when I'm feeling a bit low, they always cheer me up Smile

As it doesn't look like advertising of other sights is allowed on here, I wont post the address of the sight. If any wants to e mail me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I will show you where I get these things from.

Anyway back to who I think it is. I suppose it could be GG as may be the way that the house founders defeated/banished SS may give a clue how to defeat/banish Voldemort.

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Tomoé - Sep 13, 2004 3:26 pm (#434 of 476)

Back in business
I could be wrong, but I was under the strong impression that Slytherin left Hogwarts by himself.

And at last there came a morning
When old Slytherin departed
And though the fighting then died out
He left us quite downhearted. (OoP)

After a while, there was a serious argument on the subject between Slytherin and Gryffindor, and Slytherin left the school. (UK CoS ch.9 p.114)

Gryffindor didn't vanquished Slytherin, or at least, nothing in canon support it. They all had a different view on what kind of students they should teach (notice that Hufflepuff was the only one who shared Dumbledore's idea), they disagreed and after several years Slytherin left.

It was a failure for all four of them that they couldn't fix things up.

Gryffindor is overrated and Slytherin underrated much too often among us. (Noting personal against you sjcuk13)

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Solitaire - Sep 13, 2004 11:07 pm (#435 of 476)

I agree with Tomoé that Slytherin seems to have left of his own accord. I'm afraid I can't feel much sympathy, however, for the departure of one who would leave a Basilisk locked in his secret chamber to be set loose upon unsuspecting students who were not of pure blood.

As for underrating Slytherin, I think that happens because we really have not seen any excellent Slytherin students, other than Snape and Riddle. If any of the current Slytherin kids are exceptional, JKR hasn't let us in on that information. So far, we only know them as bullies and troublemakers. Are we simply reacting as JKR has intended? Just a question ...

Solitaire

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sjcuk13 - Sep 14, 2004 1:15 pm (#436 of 476)

Don't worry Tomoé I consider myself a Slytherin anyway and I never take anything to heart. Even (as you pointed out) Slytherin left Hogwarts of his own accord. What makes you think he stopped trying to rid the wizarding world of (excuse the term) "mud-bloods"? It shows you how determined he was (leaving a snake behind for 1000+ years) to getting rid of them.

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ruthlesspenguin - Sep 14, 2004 4:12 pm (#437 of 476)

Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Solitaire, from the extra stuff on her wesite I get the impression that Nott is reasonably intelligent. Also Malfalda was supposed to be as smart as Hermione and in Slytherin (I think) before she was cut. The lack of intelligent Slytherins could just be a coincidence, in that they happen to have been cut out for other reasons.

<(')

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sjcuk13 - Sep 15, 2004 4:37 am (#438 of 476)

I think that their would be intelligent Slytherins, could LV got to where he is now by being stupid?

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Wendelin the Weird - Sep 15, 2004 5:28 am (#439 of 476)

burned at the stake 47 times and counting...
Well, seeing as there are 440 posts that I havent 2 days to trudge through Im hoping Im not restating something that anyone else has already pondered. Ahem..

I know an owl may not seem 'lion-like' or this particular one even 'graceful', but has anyone considered that IF it was an animagus and not Crookshanks (as I tend to fantasize him being Caradoc Dearborn), that possibly the 'tawny', the need for 'spectacles', and the 'yellowish eyes' might allude us to believe that the old owl of the Weasley's might be the man? What of Errol?

I read an early post comparing the yellowish eyes of Madam Hooch who was descibed as hawk-like and wondered if perhaps another raptor might be the one... and with the other factors it would certainly be a fit!

I have to admit though that one does not use so many cat-like analogies without reason so I tend to find it as a cat animagus (whether or not its Crookshanks, or the lion-like Godric Gryffindor). Perhaps its Mr. Tibbles, or Tufty? One of them could be sent to take Harry away from Privet Drive for the summer early on? I wouldn't at all be surprised if some of Mrs. Figgs cats are actually wizard animagi.

I do like the thought that it could be describing Godric Gryffindor, (or even Fawkes or Flamel!) I personally hope it isnt McClaggan or that he is the new DADA professor simply because I like not knowing who will be teaching until I read the book. hee hee Im just not sure how we would get to see Godric Gryffindor unless a) he was still living, b) their was someone old enough who could place a memory of him into the pensieve (which again seems unlikely, c) someone travels back in time... (which to me seems even more unlikely to further the plot than anything else.)

But back to the similarities between book 2 and 6... perhaps the ancestor/descendant word goof could be involved? Didnt she go back and change the wording back after an editor had changed it?

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remiden - Sep 15, 2004 6:43 am (#440 of 476)

I do not believe JKR will use another one of the weasley pets as ananimagus, nor will she use any other animal as a hiding animagus. She has thus far been original in her works, and I do not think she will go back to previous ideas in the last of the series. Now there is a possibility that Hermonie could test a spell and it turn errol into a man, but that is the only way I could see it happening. Also, I do no think Errol would ever be used in the same sentence with loping grace.

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From Venus - Sep 15, 2004 7:04 am (#441 of 476)

Less than three months to HBP!!!!
Wendelin, I liked your idea about Errol a lot until remiden reminded us of the loping grace thing. It DEFINITELY doesn't fit.

I do like the idea, though, that it could be one of Mrs. Figgs cats. It would make sense, since she has such an important job of helping to keep Harry safe but she's only a squib. I've wondered why that job wouldn't have been given to a witch or wizard. Having an anamagus wizard or two living with her would definitely be helpful.

I'm going to go back and find descriptions of her cats...see if any could be tawny colored.

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colbow - Sep 15, 2004 8:12 am (#442 of 476)

Wendelin wrote-that possibly the 'tawny', the need for 'spectacles', and the 'yellowish eyes' might allude us to believe that the old owl of the Weasley's might be the man?

I like the owl theory, doesn't mean it has to be a Weasley pet though.Owls are everywhere in the stories. Loping grace just may mean the way the person walks in human form. Guess we will wait and see....

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Ann - Sep 15, 2004 8:48 am (#443 of 476)

Wendelin & From Venus, I too like the idea that the new character is one of Mrs. Figg's cats, but it can't be: in the Wizangemot scene in OotP, Fudge says there are no other wizards living in the area of Privet Drive. It seems unlikely that a wizard animagus, registered or unregistered, would remain undetected there.

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Warty Harris - Sep 15, 2004 11:06 am (#444 of 476)

Unless it is a cat that technically doesn't live there. Maybe it is a witch or wizard that has the day time job of watching Harry and the Dursley's and then apparates back to his/her London flat at five or whenever quitting time is. This animagus works for the Ministry of Magic or more likely the Order of the Phoenix.

It could be that one guy that disappeared. Perhaps he was cursed to be stuck in his animagus form of an Alley cat.

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megfox - Sep 15, 2004 12:06 pm (#445 of 476)

My name is Madeline Guinevere Fox, and I am pleased to make your aquaintance!
Another problem with the owl theory is that birds tend to hop or are pigeon-toed when they walk, and JKR usually gives the people who are animagus the same sort of physical characteristics of their animal. "Loping grace" is not just contrary to what we think of Errol, it also tends to go against the way most other birds walk.

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sjcuk13 - Sep 15, 2004 2:48 pm (#446 of 476)

Just a point against it being GG surly they are pictures around the castle of him, and one further point that wizard in Dumbledor's office (the one that thretons do to something to the one related to Sirius) - sorry names escape me at the moment - I think that may be GG.

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Tomoé - Sep 15, 2004 3:46 pm (#447 of 476)

Back in business
I have to backtrack a little, I couldn't remember what was my original reasonning behind th idea of Slytherin, maybe not that bad yesterday. Hopefully, it came back to me in the end.

The fishy fact about Slytherin is he didn't try to rid his world and his Hogwarts of the "mud-blood" menace, he let the task to a faraway (time-wise) heir that will rid the school of the mud-blood. But by then, Slytherin's mud-bloods could have turned into old wizarding families. That just doesn't make sense. Why build a secret chamber and breed a basilisk? Why not just kill them before they corrupt the wizarding lineage? But that's for another thread ...

Back to topic, "Leo" could be a legal animagus, that's not overdone yet. Maybe Hermione will remember his name and tease Ron and Harry because she knows his secret and not them, or she won't remember where she heard the name.

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Veritaserum - Sep 15, 2004 4:33 pm (#448 of 476)

Go Jays!
I had never thought about the Mrs. Figg's cat idea, but it sounds good. There's probably a reason why they have been mentioned several times throughout the series. Especially the part about Tibbles...disapparating? I can't remember the part exactly. First or second chapter of OOP.

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remiden - Sep 16, 2004 5:03 am (#449 of 476)

The books showed that it was Mundungus Fletcher that disapparated, not a cat. Fletcher was at Privet Drive to keep an eye on Harry, so I am not sure why they would also have an animagus living next door to do the same thing. Plus Mrs Figg would know about the animagus and would have gotten him when the dementors attacked Harry. Sorry, but the next door cat is an animagus idea doesn't do it for me. Nothing to support it besides using imagination.

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captain teagué - Sep 16, 2004 6:23 am (#450 of 476)

*******very important********** (possibly???)
has anyone spotted the marble on the desk at the opening of JK's website??? I tried clicking on it but nothing happens, I was curious as to when that arrived as I'm almost positive that wasn't there before!

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New Clue, who? Empty New Clue, who (Post 451 to 476)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:53 am

captain teagué - Sep 16, 2004 6:31 am (#451 of 476)
hmmmmm..now I'm beginning to doubt my eye sight, maybe it has been there all along??

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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 9:16 am (#452 of 476)

Go to the JK Rowling Website thread - they are talking about the marble there!

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Veritaserum - Sep 17, 2004 4:16 pm (#453 of 476)

Go Jays!
Thanks for reminding me of that scene, remiden. I can see your point entirely. I'm still hesitant on the Godric Gryffindor idea, though. Is it possible that all the lion business is that he just happens to look like a lion, that's all? A red herring of sorts?

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Classicsquid592 - Sep 19, 2004 1:27 pm (#454 of 476)

I never really followed this thread, but has anyone yet shot down the idea that this is simply the new DADA teacher?

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Solitaire - Sep 19, 2004 1:33 pm (#455 of 476)

I don't think that theory can be shot down, Squid. It is as valid as any of the others we've seen here.

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Classicsquid592 - Sep 19, 2004 4:18 pm (#456 of 476)

The DADA teachers are JKR's usual place in the stories to introduce a new character who will remain significant for the entire year. It also seems like the sort of clue JKR would give on her site. The first time the door opened, we got the name of the book. Two things that make each book unique are the title and the DADA instructor. I would think that the door would reveal the most basic things she can reveal without giving away anything about the plot. I think that this character is at least a character who has not yet been mentioned in the story so far (JKR had scribbled out the name and replaced it with "he" implying that she had tried to name him but couldn't yet). I do not think that the character is Godric Gryffindor. JKR has not yet included any sort of anachronism within her books and I don't think she would do so now by giving someone who lived a thousand years ago glasses. I have read a few of the arguments for how this might be possible, but I do not think the wizarding world was ever technologically ahead of the muggle wizard. If anything wizarding technology is a few hundred years behind muggle technology.

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Phoenix song - Sep 19, 2004 9:13 pm (#457 of 476)

Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Classicsquid592: " I have read a few of the arguments for how this might be possible, but I do not think the wizarding world was ever technologically ahead of the muggle wizard. If anything wizarding technology is a few hundred years behind muggle technology."

I have to disagree. Just because the technology is different doesn't necessarily mean that it is "behind" muggle technology. For example: we think that a computer would make searching the library for clues much easier (Nicholas Flamel and gillyweed to name a few). However, JKR has said that the WW has something much better than computers. It is possible that we are not aware of all of the utilities available to wizards and witches. We are only seeing a small portion of the world.

If mother is the necessity of invention, (and magical people have more means at their disposal to create helpful inventions than muggles do), then we can assume that they aren't lacking for the technology in which we may consider them to be deficient. Surely they are aware of everything that the muggle world has at it's disposal. If they felt that they were "behind" in any technology that is possessed by non-magical folk, then I believe that they could produce it themselves.

So, I don't believe that the clue containing the eyeglasses would necessarily confine the wearer to a date later than the glasses would have been available to muggle-wearers. I would think, if anything, that it would be more likely that glasses would have been available to wizards at an earlier date than it was to muggles.

However, with regards to wizard technology being "behind" muggle technology, I do have to concede that I don't quite understand why they would insist upon remaining with quills and ink bottles. Sure, they look "quaint" and old-fashioned. However, the whole system is cumbersome, messy and unnecessarily complicated. Surely the muggle-born children would rather use ball point pins!

Barbie

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 19, 2004 9:26 pm (#458 of 476)

"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Surely the muggle-born children would rather use ball point pins!"

Maybe I'm not pure muggle after all. In my rebelus years, in school anyway, I tried both the modern "fountain" pen, and quill. Neither work well on modern paper as opposed to parchment, it just doesn't suck up the same way. Not to mention a sheet of parchment amongst a pile of papers was a distraction to say the least. I am not even going to mention blow-drying.

I am looking forward to a new and refreshing personality, possibly from the past, as the one the new clue points to.

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The giant squid - Sep 20, 2004 2:03 am (#459 of 476)


JKR had scribbled out the name and replaced it with "he" implying that she had tried to name him but couldn't yet


I read it as she had named the character, but didn't want us to know said name. Hence the part where the name would have been was torn off and replaced with a scribbled in "He". Of course, this doesn't change the fact that it could be anyone--she could have removed the name because we'd recognize it, or because it's important to the story and she didn't want to spoil that part, or jsut because she wanted to muck with our heads a bit more (I'm voting for option C).

--Mike

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Julie Aronson - Sep 20, 2004 5:05 am (#460 of 476)

GS:

That's what I thought, too.

Julie

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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 20, 2004 1:26 pm (#461 of 476)

Writing with a quill might be quaint, but it is just so much more fun than regular pencils and pens. My feather quill is currently one of my prized possessions. Wizards are able to get around some of the more annoying qualities using magic (for example, I believe they frequently use charms to dry their ink and get rid of blots). I think, perhaps, that Jo simply likes their quaintness and thought it would be a fun way to differentiate between muggles and wizards.

Back to the subject: I think it is quite possible that either the magic community invented glasses before muggles, or this could easily be a small mistake that Jo made with "maths." I am inclined to believe the clue is a historical person -or at least an older one- but have no interesting theory to that respect.

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Saud - Sep 26, 2004 5:32 pm (#462 of 476)

Edited by Sep 26, 2004 5:32 pm
Maybe it was a muggle who invented glasses and wizards started using them without realizing that it was a muggles idea. (Ofcourse they put in their own magical touches on it.) And this shows that even though wizards can do almost anything with magic, muggles have almost always found a way to get the job done and sometimes invented ideas which, although simple, have been great and for a good cause.

Wandered too far into fantasy, slowly coming back to reality

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Saud - Sep 26, 2004 5:42 pm (#463 of 476)

Again wandering away into fantasy.

Probably this new clue person, a historical figure and a prince of his time, was a bit like Arthur Weasley. He was not all conservative on being a wizard and disregarding all that is related to muggles as nonsense. Actually, he was a person who wanted both the wizards and muggles to live in harmony and he used to be in close touch with both the non-magical and the wizarding world. Although he was pure-blooded wizard, even the things he used, like his glasses, symbolized his close relations with the muggle world. And thus the reference of being a half-blood prince.

Saud.

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Daisy Pennifold - Sep 30, 2004 10:40 am (#464 of 476)

As for the glasses, the wizards seem to know about Merlin. T.H. White tells us that Merlin lived backwards through time. He may have introduced the glasses to the wizarding world, having "discovered" them while living in the future. If Rowling agrees with White's story, of course.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 16, 2004 4:51 pm (#465 of 476)

According to T.H. White. Merlin was conidered very advanced for his age to such an extent that he was thouight odd much like both Dumbledore brothers are considered eccentric.

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riddikulus - Oct 25, 2004 8:53 pm (#466 of 476)

I was watching Chamber tonight (it's always on when you have 14 channels of HBO) and the scene where Hermione turns into a cat, after the polyjuice potion with the cat hair in it... made me think of this description. The yellow eyes, I think, did it for me. I was so set on a lion, but all cats are alike, just different sizes, really... they resemble each other. This could be a cat, transformation. I can't, though, figure out who is gonna take the potion, or why... but wanted to share my thoughts, anyhow. Of course, it might not be an animagus or polyjuice transformation at all... but just someone who has an odd appearance like a lion, to Harry...

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Madame Pomfrey - Oct 29, 2004 8:08 am (#467 of 476)

Phoenix_Tear: Do you ever get a dream which helps you in writing the Harry Potter series? JK Rowling replies -> No, and I wish I had! I did once have an incredible dream about Nicholas Flamel, though.

I have wondered if Nicholas Flamel would return.Remember he had enough elixer left to get his affairs in order.I know he is very old but,couldn't he possibly be the new clue character.Exactly what "affairs" did he need to settle before his death? Why was the stone made in the first place? I would love to hear everyones thoughts on this.

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Ann - Oct 29, 2004 11:59 am (#468 of 476)

Madame Pomfrey, I don't think JKR would give Nicholas Flamel an on-stage role. After all, he was a real person (although in the real world, I doubt he lived until 1991). I suppose his heirs wouldn't be in a position to sue for defamation, but nonetheless, to make a real person, however long dead, an active character in the series would change the whole pattern of assumptions we have when we read it. And I don't think she'd do that at this point.

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Madame Pomfrey - Oct 29, 2004 1:36 pm (#469 of 476)

Thanks for your input Ann.I didn't realize Nicholas Flamel was a real person.Who is he?

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Elanor - Oct 29, 2004 1:48 pm (#470 of 476)

Hi Madame Pomfrey! I can answer that question. Nicolas Flamel was a famous French alchemist (1330-1418) who was meant to have discovered the Philosopher's stone with the help of his wife Pernelle (who did exist too). The legend says that he found it exactly on the 25th of april 1382, at the St Jacques tower, in Paris. The only historical thing we really know is that he became very rich indeed. If you're interested in what the Philosopher'stone means, there is a thread dedicated to alchemy on the forum (in "the world and the HP phenomenom", sorry, I don't remember how to make a link), I will be happy to tell you about it there!

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Madame Pomfrey - Oct 29, 2004 3:05 pm (#471 of 476)

Thank you Elanor.I'll check it out.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 31, 2004 11:28 am (#472 of 476)

No day but Today
Just wanted to let all know that the door is open again. It is the "new, new clue" so maybe it could get its own thread or it could go here.

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Liz Mann - Oct 31, 2004 11:58 am (#473 of 476)

Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I can't get to it! The sign is still on the door whenever I go there!

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Joelle - Oct 31, 2004 10:50 pm (#474 of 476)

I'd be fine with it going here. I mean we kind of exhausted the possiblities eh? A mod would have to rename it or something.

Joelle

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Aurora Gubbins - Nov 1, 2004 9:09 am (#475 of 476)

Everyone who doesn't normally read the Website Thread; go there and check out the discussion! There is a name which occurs and I (amongst others) think it may be the person described in the clue. There's too much coincidence - although it could be a JKRed Herring. I don't want to say too much as I don't want to spoil anything - I'm not too good at odd coloured text or anything. Read and enjoy! Aurora xx

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therealscabbers - Nov 11, 2004 9:06 am (#476 of 476)

Petra t
IMO Def the described charachter - my Cat ( Felix) now has a new surname!!

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