Purchasing a Second Wand

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Purchasing a Second Wand

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:17 am

Purchasing a Second Wand

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. At that time, this thread was still set in the "Archived Thread to be Worked" folder of the WC forum. Elanor

Finn BV - Jun 8, 2005 10:00 am
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 12, 2006 12:52 pm
On the Death Eaters and Bellatrix LeStrange threads, the discussion had wandered over to how Death Eaters would get another wand. After all, once somebody goes to Azkaban, the wand is broken in half, and hopefully all wand "manufacturers" would recognize the DEs.

So, the question is, where did the Death Eaters get their wands? Some possibilites that turned up were:

They were stolen
Lucius either had many extra ones or had connections to get him more
They were purchased from a foreign wand maker.
I made this thread so that the discussion could stay on topic… here.
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Purchasing a Second Wand (Post 1 to 54)

Post  Elanor on Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:19 am

Steve Newton - Jun 8, 2005 10:07 am (#1 of 54)
Librarian
In SS Ollivander tells Harry that he remembers Lily and James buying their first wands. It sounds like multiple wand buying is fairly routine.

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fleur-de-lys - Jun 8, 2005 11:16 am (#2 of 54)

Yes, it would seem that buying a new wand is quite normal. We know that the Weasleys used some of their prize money, at the beginning for PoA, to buy Ron a new wand. So it is possible that someone purchased new ones for the DE's or they purchased wands themselves. I, too, would hope that British wand makers wouldn't knowingly sell wands to known DE's who had been in Azkaban. But Lucius isn't a known DE until the end of OoP. He may very well buy wands for the escaped DE's. And I wouldn't put it past him to have a wand maker in his pocket that he could go to for new wands for anyone he needed them for. On the international front, Durmstrang was heavily into the Dark Arts, perhaps that country would welcome known DE's to buy wands there. Its a very interesting point you've brought up, fbv807, I look forward to reading more discussion on it.

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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 8, 2005 11:50 am (#3 of 54)

I Am Almighty!
The Death Eaters could have kept all the wands belonging to the people they murdered during the first war. The escaped DE's would just have to find one that is reasonably compatible.

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applepie - Jun 8, 2005 12:05 pm (#4 of 54)

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Maybe Karakoff has a wand maker in his pocket as well. Being that Durmstrang is into the dark arts, and he was a Death Eater, he may very well be connected to a "black market" wand maker.

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Steve Newton - Jun 8, 2005 12:32 pm (#5 of 54)

Librarian
Lets not forget Dung and Willy. I'm sure that they could get you all of the wands you want. For a price, of course.

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applepie - Jun 8, 2005 1:42 pm (#6 of 54)

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Steve, enlighten me...

"Dung and Willy", as in Mundungus and whom?

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Steve Newton - Jun 8, 2005 1:51 pm (#7 of 54)

Librarian
Willy Widdershins. Exploding toilets and all of that.

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applepie - Jun 8, 2005 1:57 pm (#8 of 54)

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Aha! Now I see... Thanks for clearing that up for me!

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Detail Seeker - Jun 8, 2005 2:21 pm (#9 of 54)

Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Where is it written, that wands of people going to Askaban are snapped ? The wands of students expelled from Hogwarts are snapped, but I cannot remember reading that Askaban-gaolbirds´wands suffer the same fate.

I assumed, that at least the wands of DEs tried before the Wizengamot would have been kept as evidence (Prior Incantatus) - at least as long as the rules are played, what during Barty Crouche´s time cannot always be assumed, of course. So a DE from inside the MoM ( Mc Nair e.g.) could have pinched them from there.

But again, no canon evidence for that.

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Finn BV - Jun 8, 2005 2:41 pm (#10 of 54)

Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Hmm… I'm pretty sure it said that wands were snapped in half, but I will check on that…

You would think though, that it would be highly unlikely for escaped convicts to keep their wands, or anything to the effect of that. They would also have a hard time going back to the Ministry to steal them back, then again, that was what Podmore did for the DEs. Obviously the wands would be kept for evidence, but maybe there's some sort of charm on them so the only spell it can perform is "Priori Incantatem".

I'll come up with something… some time…

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haymoni - Jun 8, 2005 4:47 pm (#11 of 54)

I'm sure Lucius would have been able to get his slimy hands on a few wands. Maybe at Bourgin & Burke's.

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Choices - Jun 8, 2005 7:22 pm (#12 of 54)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I don't remember anything about those going to Azkaban having their wands snapped - I think it probably should be done - but I don't think we have been told for sure that it is. But what do I know?....my memory is going along with the rest of me. LOL

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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 8, 2005 8:07 pm (#13 of 54)

Your memory is fine Choices.You've answered more than a couple of things for me in the past. Wasn't Percy in a shop that had broken wands and old robes when he was reading Prefects Who Gained Power? It appeared to be a sort of thrift shop.After seeing the damage Ron's broken wand did,why would anyone want to buy a broken wand? Perhaps they can be repaired.

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applepie - Jun 8, 2005 8:13 pm (#14 of 54)

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Perhaps Death Eaters intensify their wants by piecing specific magical cores together from these broken/discarded wands to attain higher powered wants....kind of "turbo charged" wands, if you will?

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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 9, 2005 6:35 am (#15 of 54)

Hi,

I'm wondering if making wands is all that difficult. Obviously there are some people who make excellent wands and sell them to the public. But, there must be a huge cottage industry for making wands of all sorts.

Thanks,

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Choices - Jun 9, 2005 10:18 am (#16 of 54)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Joanne - I have always been curious about how they get the core object - phoenix feather, unicorn hair, heartstring, etc - into the wand. Somehow a tiny hole has to be bored through the center of the wand and that can't be an easy thing to do, as the wand is not very big around. I am sure magic is involved. Plus the hair, feather, etc. has to be obtained that is to be used, as well as the wand wood. I wonder if a home-made or cottage-industry wand would have the force/power/accuracy of a professionally made wand?

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Vulture - Jun 9, 2005 10:52 am (#17 of 54)

It's just my opinion, but I like it !!
This thread is close enough to a question I was going to make into a new thread _ how on earth did Voldemort get his wand back after trying to kill Harry ?

Remember, in Book 4, he tells us that he was stripped from his body, powerless, and doesn't even know exactly what he was. He wasn't capable of carrying a wand _ he mentions the lack of one later.

Yet he turns up in Book 4 with the same wand.

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frogface - Jun 9, 2005 11:10 am (#18 of 54)

The most popular theory for this that I've heard Vulture, seems to be that Peter recovered the wand from Godric's Hollow and hid it somewhere and then took it with him to Albania when he was driven out of hiding.

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Ms Hagrid - Jun 9, 2005 12:51 pm (#19 of 54)

I thought "the wand chooses the wizard", and "you will never get such good results with another wizards wand". That would seem like a good argument for getting a "personalized" wand rather than using someone's discarded wand - particularly if you're a DE and you anticipate REALLY using one, rather than a student learning the basics. Rather than having Lucius pick up some "generic" wands for his friends, it would make sense for the DE's to have a wandmaker "in house" so to speak.

The only time I can specifically remember a wand being snapped is Hagrid's when he was expelled from Hogwarts. The question of what happens to a person's wand when they go to Azkaban is an interesting one. Perhaps prisoners do get to keep wands, but the massed presence of the Dementors keeps prisoners from using wands to escape?

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fleur-de-lys - Jun 9, 2005 1:17 pm (#20 of 54)

Perhaps the wands are confiscated and kept at the MoM or at Gringotts, as was suggested earlier. Someone could have stolen them right before or after the breakout, but the MoM kept the robbery quiet and out of the Daily Prophet, as they keep doing to other news-worthy items that threaten their stand that Voldie isn't back.

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Ms Hagrid - Jun 9, 2005 6:07 pm (#21 of 54)

We've seen a few characters post-Azkaban: 1. Hagrid: His snapped-but-disguised wand might not have been recognized as a wand, and therefore not confiscated. 2. Sirius: Not sure where he got a wand post-Azkaban, but he certainly had one by the end of Book 5 when he's at the MoM battle. It also seemed to be working pretty well for him... 3. Barty Crouch Jr: Had to have gotten his hands on a wand somehow to take out Mad-Eye Moody. Did he use his Dad's? If so, then how did his Dad manage to escape and make his way to Hogwarts later without his wand?

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frogface - Jun 10, 2005 2:27 am (#22 of 54)

"how did his Dad manage to escape and make his way to Hogwarts later without his wand?"

Well I think he was under the imperius spell while he was being held captive by Voldemort and Wormtail and imperius can be fought without a wand.

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Cornelia - Jun 10, 2005 4:01 am (#23 of 54)

I´m not sure if the wands of the Prisoners are snapped. I think there are not only livelong sentences. And when the prisoner gets out again after his sentece he gets his wand back. I agree wands might be stored somewhere, maybe in a cellar in the MoM.

Maybe there are also special wands, Lilys wand was good for charm-work. There might be others which are good for other branches of Magic? So maybe somebody could have a special wand for charm-work, DADA, DA, housework...

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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 10, 2005 8:49 am (#24 of 54)

Hi, Choices,

Yes, good questions. I was thinking of a two-piece construction, myself. That is, each half of the wand is made separately. The core is placed into a slot in one, Then, the two halves are joined together, perhaps magically, to create a single object called a wand.

As for finding or obtaining cores, that doesn't seem too difficult, either. Ollivander, for instance, reminisces about plucking a hair from a particularly fine unicorn's tail. And, Mundungus seems to get illicit materials with consumate ease. So, I don't perceive this to be a great obstacle.

Finally, I would suspect that legitimate wand makers are licensed in some way. I would guess that the MoM does not let convicted murderers obtain new wands legitimately. Further, criminals would know that their wands can be tested to determine what spells they have performed. So, it would almost be a necessity to have a second wand.

Finally, there must be some wizards, a la Arthur Weasley, who would just want to build their own wands. How many people do we know who brew their own beer, make their own wine, build their own electronic equipment, etc? Certainly, there must be a few witches or wizards who either want to make their own wands as a hobby or are convinced that they can make better wands than any "so-called professional."

Thanks,

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dobbyiscool - Jun 11, 2005 6:29 pm (#25 of 54)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
I suppose if you break/lose your wand, you can buy another one. But would it be as good? Harry's wand was destined for him sixty some odd years before he got it (when Fawkes gave the two feathers), but if his snapped in half, would another wand work as well for him?

As for Azkaban persons, I doubt the wands (at least not all of them) are snapped in half. Some people would only be in Azkaban for a short time, thus needing their wand again when they were released.

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Steve Newton - Jun 12, 2005 7:05 am (#26 of 54)

Librarian
Even if we accept, and I'm not entirely sure that I do, that the wand chooses the wizard it would not necessarily mean that only one wand would choose a wizard. Many wands could 'choose' a wizard.

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Detail Seeker - Jun 12, 2005 7:10 am (#27 of 54)

Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
dobbyiscool, I always understood the "The Wand chooses the Wizard" idea in that way, that not necessarily the best adapted wand in the shop would be found by that, but the first fitting one, that comes into contact with the buyer will normally be taken. Especially when buying "first wands", further optimisation to look after an even better fitting wand will hardly be done.

Of course, except for Ollivander´s remark about remembering Lily and James buying their first wands, we have no evidence about other people loooking for a second fitting wand, as noone , who got a new wand (Ron, Neville) had been selected by their first one.

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Miriam Huber - Jun 12, 2005 12:03 pm (#28 of 54)

I just posted this on the Neville thread, but it fits here, too:

I remember very well how it was when I got the violin I play now. I had already one but was searching for a better one. I tried a few but when I played this one for the first time, everything was clear. We needed to stay together! I just can´t describe it. Of course, it is quite a good instrument, but that was not the decisive point. I also played some other instruments which (I almost wrote "who" - violinists and their instruments! We really treat them as if they were sentient - AS IF?!) were "objectively" better, but it just wasn´t the same. So, in a way, it "chose" me rather than I chose it.

What I want to say with this comparison:

1. You will not get such good results with another wand, but you can use it. And like all learners who don´t have the best equipment until they are "professionals" (or until they have the money), why should kids of eleven years or some years older absolutely have the best-fitting wand when they just start magic and there is a spare wand at home? I can quite imagining that reasoning (although I myself would of course advise to give them "their" wands as soon as possible, but that´s another thing, I just try to imagine the reasoning in the wizarding world, of Grandma Longbottom and the Weasleys and surely many others.)

2.That the wand chooses you and not the other way around doesn´t say there isn´t more than one wand that suites you. By the way, Ollivander talked about remembering Lily Evans buying her "first" wand, and as we know she died pretty young, it looks to me that wands don´t last as long as twenty years or so. (But, of course, she might have had an accident with her wand just like Ron, we don´t know - wow, luckily violins last hundreds of years. One of my most, most horrible nightmare was accidentally damaging my violin!).

Conclusion: I am not confused about the "choosing" and "second wand" thing, I don´t see the problem.

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sere35 - Jun 12, 2005 2:12 pm (#29 of 54)

I always thought the reason to get a second or third wands was obvious.

Lets say you get your first wand when your 11 (a wand that chooses you) by the time you graduate you will be 17 18 years old. Your personality will have changed and you could be a completely different person. So your wand that you got at a 11 would not really suit you any more.

I bet Dumbledore who is a 150 has gone through a lot of wands.

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Solitaire - Jun 12, 2005 10:49 pm (#30 of 54)

I have always believed that DEs who killed Witches and Wizards in the last war may have taken their wands as "trophies" of the kills. I believe Vlad mentioned this same possibility. I think it makes sense.

Detail Seeker also brought up the possibility that prisoners' wands may be kept at the Ministry of Magic, as evidence in crimes. Perhaps they are kept in an "evidence room," like our Muggle police stations have. Maybe they are returned to their owners who are eventually released.

If Detail Seeker is correct, who would have been in a better place to pinch the wands than Lucius, who was always skulking around the Ministry? For someone who didn't actually work there, he seemed to be around an awful lot, didn't he? And his friendship with Fudge seemed to give him access to information he probably shouldn't hve known. I think this seems like another viable possibility.

Solitaire

Edit: Even if Lucius was not known as a DE before the DoM debacle, I think a reputable wand-maker would have noticed if he was frequently buying new wands. If he actually bought them, he would have had to acquire them from a Black Market wand dealer, I think--one who didn't ask questions.

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Miriam Huber - Jun 13, 2005 2:48 am (#31 of 54)

By the way, I can quite imagine some wand makers (I am not blaming Mr. Ollivander, though!) to simply LOVE dark wizards buy their wands.

This would be, in my opinion, out of the same reason some people become DEs: power! The wands will perform very powerful (dark) magic, will do things "decent" wands never will ("Crucio" etc.). For someone who is obsessed with wands and doesn´t care about morals a wand used by a DE would have the possibility to show its whole range of powers...

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dobbyiscool - Jun 13, 2005 1:38 pm (#32 of 54)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
If people would change wands so frequently, then why does LV have the same wand fifty years after he got it? I am of course assuming that Ollivander wouldn't sell a wand to the Dark Lord himself, but to Riddle before he became a full fledged wizard. By his sixth year, he was already known as LV by some of his friends, so I doubt he bought a new wand too far after graduating.

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Choices - Jun 15, 2005 12:53 pm (#33 of 54)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Perhaps Ollivander offers a wand refurbishing service for those who don't want to get rid of their chosen wand - perhaps it isn't broken, just sort of used looking and he can refinish it or remove the core and insert it into another wand of the same wood. He might could magically restore it to it's new condition. Just a thought.

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dobbyiscool - Jun 15, 2005 1:41 pm (#34 of 54)

Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily this is not difficult. --Charlotte Whitton
Like a tune up? I suppose like anything else, if you keep it nice, it could last forever. Cedric had his polished before Olivander checked the wands out, and that made me think of them like a car. Some people go through cars every couple of years, where others have a nice car that they like and keep running well.

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Solitaire - Jun 15, 2005 2:43 pm (#35 of 54)

I believe that some Witches and Wizards--perhaps those who are a little less "active" than our current crop of kids--may very well keep and use their original wands for their entire lives. Others may be harder on them or may break them in accidents ... as did Ron and Neville. Still others may prefer different wands for different kinds of magic. We already know that some wands are good for charms and some for transfiguration.

Solitaire

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Choices - Jun 15, 2005 5:50 pm (#36 of 54)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
It would be interesting to know what Mr. Ollivander would have done had he found one of the champion's wands not up to par in GOF. Would he have suggested a new wand or could he have somehow repaired the wand to make it function at it's full potential?

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Amilia Smith - Jun 15, 2005 7:32 pm (#37 of 54)

As to how long wands last: Ron's first wand was a hand-me-down of Charlie's(?). In SS, Ron is bemoaning how run-down and worn out it is with the unicorn hair almost poking through. My question is: how would a wand get worn out this way? It's not broken, it is just worn out. What was Charlie doing with his wand?

Mills.

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Steve Newton - Jun 15, 2005 7:37 pm (#38 of 54)

Librarian
Playing 'Fetch the Wand' with dragons?

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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 10:05 pm (#39 of 54)

Back in business
I suspect Charlie wasn't the first owner of the wand, as he left Hogwarts, he buy himself a brand new one and gave back the pass-me-down one to his parents who gave it to Ron.

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Solitaire - Jun 15, 2005 10:47 pm (#40 of 54)

I agree with Tomoé. I believe that wand has seen more owners than just Charlie. Perhaps it belonged to one of Molly's brothers--or cousins--who were killed by Dolohov and the other DEs. As to what they were doing with it ...

This year, we adopted brand new language arts textbooks. ALL kids had brand new, never-been-used books. Some were returned in mint condition (they'd never even been used). Others had the normal wear and tear of books that had been used appropriately but still looked new. Then there were those that looked as though they'd been through about 50 students. Pages were missing, covers were broken, etc. I'd have sworn the owners used them as weapons in hand-to-hand combat. Some people are hard on things.

Solitaire

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Miss Malaprop - Jun 16, 2005 12:59 am (#41 of 54)

Edited by Jun 16, 2005 12:59 am
“…kind of "turbo charged" wands, if you will?”

Applepie, that reminds me of the Mr Bean episode where he puts the cores of several Christmas crackers into one explosive cracker!

I always thought it was a little harsh for a student to have their wand snapped when expelled from Hogwarts...I suppose it could be dangerous if one is not trained to use it properly. Still, Hagrid manages engorgement and partial transfiguration with his broken wand!

Expulsion is not common and an expelled student would probably be recognised trying to buy another wand, but what stops somebody like Stan Shunpike or Mrs Figg going into Ollivander’s and buying a wand?

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Choices - Jun 16, 2005 10:38 am (#42 of 54)

*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
What's to stop someone from giving money to another person and having them go buy a wand for you? I don't think anyone keeps track of how many wands someone has - at least we haven't been told if someone keeps track - like the MOM. Of course, we know Mr. Ollivander remembers, but I don't think there is a law against having or buying more than one wand.

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Solitaire - Jun 17, 2005 1:23 am (#43 of 54)

Choices, it makes sense ... but can you imagine Malfoy going into buy 10 wands from Ollivander? Even if he spread the purchases over several months, I think Ollivander might become suspicious of someone buying that many wands. I suspect if extra wands were purchased, they came from the "black market," or Knockturn Alley shops, where questions were not asked.

I also think it is equally likely that the wands may have been "nicked" from the Ministry ... or else they were wands that had been taken as trophies from previous DE victims and had been stashed somewhere safe, in case they were needed in the future.

Solitaire

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applepie - Jun 17, 2005 9:58 am (#44 of 54)

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Solitaire, I agree. That sounds like the most logical ways to get them.

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Riley the Happy Dude - Jul 1, 2005 9:42 pm (#45 of 54)

My theory (which is a combination of theories on this thread) is that the DE's kept the wands of their victims and when the MOM collected their wands to snap them they gave the MOM one of their victim's wands.

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Solitaire - Jul 2, 2005 8:09 am (#46 of 54)

They might have done so, Riley, if they were home when the Ministry called to arrest them and snap their wands. But if they were caught in battle or at the scene of a crime, I should imagine they would have been using their own wands ... don't you think?

Solitaire

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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 6, 2005 11:33 pm (#47 of 54)

I just posted this over on the "Was it Snape at Godric's Hollow that Night?" thread, but was redirected over here, and I must say the post works much better here.

I wonder if it's possible to use two wands at once, or a handful for that matter. Would it make spells immensely powerful, or just mess them up (though the latter seems most likely)? Still, it'd be pretty cool to see a duel where the spells are cast extremely fast due to the duelers each having another wand in the other hand...

Let me know what you think!

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Solitaire - Jul 6, 2005 11:51 pm (#48 of 54)

Since some have suggested that the wand is a means of focusing one's energy and magical power, I'm not sure that two wands would work. How would the wizard know which wand to focus with? Wouldn't they divide and weaken the "energy force" of the magic?

Solitaire

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Miss Malaprop - Jul 8, 2005 11:58 pm (#49 of 54)

I think it would be very difficult to manage two wands at once...like trying to fight with two swords. I don't know if there would be much of an advantage - you could only fire off spells as fast as you could speak the incantation.

Still, I like the idea of owning a couple of wands; one for, say, housework charms, and one for your regular Auror day job!

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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2005 12:35 pm (#50 of 54)

Owning two wands is one thing ... I just can't see two wands held together and working. Of course, I'm applying my Muggle logic to that issue, so it may not work properly!

Solitaire

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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 9, 2005 5:21 pm (#51 of 54)

Well I got my idea from a double-sided light saber, sooooo... We know JKR has mentioned that certain ideas may be too "Star Wars-ish" (was that the one about Voldemort being Harry's dad or something?). My idea probably is as well.

You could only fire off spells as fast as you could speak the incantation.

Do you have to actually speak an incantation or can more powerful wizards just wave their wands and think the incantation? I remember multiple points in the books when older wizards have performed spells without it being mentioned that they said anything...

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Miss Malaprop - Jul 10, 2005 12:27 am (#52 of 54)

Edited by Jul 10, 2005 12:31 am
OK then, you could only fire off spells as fast as you could think the incantation.

I still maintain that it would be too difficult to manage...imagine using a "double-sided" wand, trying to duel with to enemies standing on either side of you!

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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 10, 2005 9:38 am (#53 of 54)

You're right, the idea is impractical, illogical, but still really cool!

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Jessalynn Quirky - Jul 11, 2005 4:50 am (#54 of 54)

I don't think anyone would ever use a double-sided wand or even more than one wand at once......but yeah, that would be cool! :-D
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