The Hidden Meaning of Colour?

The Hidden Meaning of Colour?

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. At that time, this thread was still set in the "Archived Thread to be Worked" folder of the WC forum. Elanor

Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 16, 2004 3:02 am
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 12, 2006 12:36 pm
A lots been made on various sites about the sparks from Harry's wand in Ollivanders. They were red and gold, a suggestion that he is Gryffindor's heir.

When Voldemort magiced a hand for Peter Pettigrew, it was silver. Yes I know that silver can kill werewolves, but this is not something we are told by J K Rowling. We have taken that from folklaw, but folklaw tells us that werewolves can be cured - something the Harry Potter books deny. Could the silver hand have a more innocent meaning? Silver and green are the colours of Slytherin house, and Voldemort is the heir of Slytherin.

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The Hidden Meaning of Colour Thread Index

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Star Crossed - Apr 16, 2004 3:49 am (#1 of 231)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Excellent observation on Wormtail's hand! I have been actively denying that his hand will kill Remus because that seems so obvious. Now what you said isn't so obvious, but it makes sense. As for the Gryffindor colours coming out of his wand, I dunno. I just don't like that he's the Gryffindor heir.

Wow. I am quick to deny theories, aren't I?

Anyway, not sure what this all means, but I'm sure it has to be something.

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Catherine - Apr 16, 2004 5:21 am (#2 of 231)
Canon Seeker
I think we'll have to wait and see who Harry's related to, although I really want to know!

I always thought that the sparks were red and gold because Fawke's phoenix plumage is red and gold, and that's the core of Harry's wand.

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Sherbie Lemon - Apr 16, 2004 5:27 am (#3 of 231)
The shield Voldemort conjures during the battle in the MoM with Dumbledore is silver as well.

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Madame Librarian - Apr 16, 2004 6:19 am (#4 of 231)
Is there any connection to Gryffindor "gold" (as in the precious metal) and Slytherin "silver"? Any metallurgists (sp?) out there who could do a quick analysis of properties that might offer clues? (I'm not really serious about that.)

On another issue, I'm concerned about one of the more obvious color contradictions--Harry's green eyes and Voldie's red ones. Verrrry interesting, no?

Ciao. Barb

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Tomoé - Apr 16, 2004 6:53 am (#5 of 231)
Back in business
Gold and Silver are the only metal color in heraldry, represented by yellow and white, respectively. But JKR doesn't seem to know much about heraldry, as she added the bronze color and split gold from yellow, two changes impossible with the Xth century Europe's dyeing techniques, people would mess yellow with gold and red with bronze.

Still with Medieval point of you, Gold was the must precious metal for the Christian Europe while Silver was the must precious metal for the Vikings.

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Catherine - Apr 16, 2004 6:57 am (#6 of 231)
Canon Seeker
I was thinking about phrases we associate with gold:

Gold star - praise, commendation Good as gold - valuable, positive Solid gold - superior, outstanding, best of the best Gold standard - the best, a measure of quality, excellence Golden child/boy - favored person

And phrases with silver:

Silver-tongued - witty, eloquent speaker Pieces of silver - money, especially coins Silver-tongued devil Born with a silver spoon in one's mouth

Interesting when you compare Gryffindor and Slytherin...

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freshwater - Apr 16, 2004 9:00 am (#7 of 231)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Madame Librarian wrote: Is there any connection to Gryffindor "gold" (as in the precious metal) and Slytherin "silver"? Any metallurgists (sp?) out there who could do a quick analysis of properties that might offer clues? (I'm not really serious about that.)

I think that's a great question!...which may only show how far gone I am. ;-) But, less than 100 years ago (and current New Agers) people believed that semi-precious gemstones had various properties related to healing, both emotional and physical. I'm sure there must be historical evidence for similar beliefs about gold and silver. Anybody out there know about that?

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Tomoé - Apr 16, 2004 9:21 am (#8 of 231)
Back in business
Silver is definitely the metal to cast away evil, in Eastern Europe at least. Remember werewolves? I think it works against vampire too.

How could this work with Slytherin?

Edit : Vikings from Sweden colonized the East from Russia to Ukraine, could the silver property of banning evil in the Eastern Europe come from the Vikings' preference of silver over gold?

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Star Crossed - Apr 16, 2004 1:16 pm (#9 of 231)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I always thought that the sparks were red and gold because Fawke's phoenix plumage is red and gold, and that's the core of Harry's wand.

Great idea! Can you imagine if Voldemort had red and gold sparks, too, when he first got his wand? True, I doubt he was evil then, but I'm sure he prefered Slytherin. Though, what do I know?

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Madame Librarian - Apr 16, 2004 7:12 pm (#10 of 231)
Gold flakes or powder were considered to have healing qualities when mixed with water or wine. For the upper classes during the 17th, 18th and even 19th century this was a cure for something (I'll search the Net for more info). I don't think it would hurt you if taken in moderation, but I doubt it really does anything. Placebo effect in operation then probably.

When we think about the "color" phrases Catherine (post #6) was mentioning, don't forget that pure silver is called sterling silver usually, and there's a phrase to call something/someone sterling means that it/they are excellent or pure. E.g., "Oh, yes, that fellow has a sterling character." But, we also should remember that silver tarnishes quickly if not polished regularly, whereas gold needs no such polishing, but is a softer metal and easily dented and damaged. What this all may mean, I haven't a clue!

Ciao. Barb

EDIT--OK, checked the Net. Gold is used in modern day medicine as a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis and some other joint diseases. I found lots of herbal/alternative/New Age sites that also recommend a white gold powder as a curative when drunk and/or brushed on the skin. I found a few sites about the ancient Chinese using gold as a medicine, but no reference to the illness being treated. Same for the references for European culture. Maybe it was just considered a very good pepper-upper and sort of like One-A-Day Vitamins...only for the extremely rich.

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popkin - Apr 16, 2004 7:22 pm (#11 of 231)
mother
People with arthritis take gold in pill form even today. I believe you can get a prescription for it. I don't know exactly what effect it is supposed to have, but I am sure that a lady I worked with about 10 years ago or so was taking it.

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popkin - Apr 16, 2004 8:57 pm (#12 of 231)
mother
Edited by Apr 16, 2004 8:58 pm
In GOF JKR goes into great detail about the colors of the robes that everyone wears to the Yule Ball. The first couple of times I read it, I thought it was tremendously boring and wanted to skip passages just to get on to the next bit of interest. Since then I have found that when it seems I'm slogging through a chapter, JKR is usually laying clues.

Do you think there is any significance to the colors of the robes at the Yule Ball?

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Chemyst - Apr 17, 2004 8:18 pm (#13 of 231)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Art 101 had a unit on the psychology of color. Robe colors at the Yule Ball most certainly seemed to fit the personality of the wearer, but I haven’t found any prophetic clues woven into the formal wear. I think JKR uses color a lot to set the mood. Actual color "clues" - other than obvious house colors - seem rare, yet one major example comes to mind: Black symbolizes death and Sirius Black died, as has the rest of his family.

Three colors seemed to be used a lot on Umbridge. Fuzzy pink, which I think is how she sees herself, amphibian/reptile green which is more her true self, and the black fly-in-the-ointment bow she often wore on her head. This use of color adds shading to the character, but any conclusions drawn would be pretty farfetched-- a slimy green toad turning into a pink fantasy princess?!?!

I think Barb had a great observation with the Harry/Voldemort eye color. That seems like that could be more significant than just setting a mood.

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Sherbie Lemon - Apr 17, 2004 9:23 pm (#14 of 231)
Chemyst, I like your explanation about the robe colors. You should post your Umbridge one on that thread; I think that your conclusions about her color preferences are right on and are an outward manifestation of her personality.

I also think that Voldemort's and Harry's eye color will be important. JKR has consistently refused to answer the question about Harry's eyes, which means there is something there.

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Chris. - Apr 25, 2004 12:51 pm (#15 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I've found some meanings for the colours of the Yule Ball dress robes.

Harry was wearing bottle green dress robes, which symbolizes mental stress. Ron was wearing maroon coloured robes (Much to his disgust! ) which means self-empowerment and a firm direction. Parvati Patil was in robes of shocking pink, which shows she had a strong feeling of vocation. Her sister Padma of Ravenclaw wore robes of bright turquoise for the Yule Ball. It shows positive and obsessive growth. Fleur Delacour wore robes of silver-grey satin, which she pulled off stunningly. The silver robes show she is a fiery young woman.Draco in robes of black velvet show he is defensive when fear is near. Pansy Parkinson was wearing pale pink. In small doses, it means love, but in abundance, it means immaturity. Crabbe and Goyle were both wearing moss green robes, meaning they are suffereing from mental stress too. Hermione wore periwinkle blue robes showing sensitivity.

Regards Kingsley

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Madame Librarian - Apr 25, 2004 2:19 pm (#16 of 231)
Kinglsey, could you tell us where you found your meaning of colors information?

Thanks.

Ciao. Barb

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popkin - Apr 25, 2004 8:20 pm (#17 of 231)
mother
I thought it was interesting that Pansy Parkinson wore frilly pink and later on Umbridge appeared in a frilly pink habitat. Also, Crabbe and Goyle both in moss green and something about Grawp was the color of green moss. Could moss green indicate low mental ability coupled with brute strength (and perhaps loyalty)?

Harry thought Draco looked like a vicar in his black robes. I wonder if there is any significance to that? Someone else said that black was associated with death (noting that Sirius "Black" had died). Could JKR be hinting that Draco will not survive the series? Maybe his appearance as a vicar is meant to call to mind a funeral service?

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Chris. - Apr 26, 2004 8:52 am (#18 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Madame Librarian, I have just checked the page again to find that it is to do with dream colours, so they're not all totally accurate.

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Verbina - Apr 26, 2004 9:12 am (#19 of 231)
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What I find intersting about Pansy wearing pink and then Umbridge wearing pink is that they are both of a follower sort. Pansy follows Draco. Umbridge follows Fudge. Also, Pansy is almost a simpering type person when around Draco. Much as Umbridge is around Fudge.

A thing I postted recently while re-reading the book 1 take place when Harry goes to Gringotts to get money from his vault. Griphook opens the vault door and "a lot of green smoke came billowing out," (Book 1 Chapter 5, Page 75 US version) Now with the signifacne of color that we have picked out, what on earth could this one be?

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Chris. - Apr 26, 2004 9:16 am (#20 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
In the 'Boil Cure Potion', if the porcupine quill is added before the cauldron is taken off the fire, the mixture produces clouds of acid green smoke and a loud hissing noise. It's the only other mentioned of green smoke I can find.

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Lupin is Lupin. Natch. - Apr 26, 2004 1:43 pm (#21 of 231)
Sometimes known as Kim.
Ah, but Verbina, are they really followers? Umbridge sends the Dementors to attack Harry behind Fudge's back. She gets passed the legislation to make it more difficult for werewolves and such to get work. She wrangles out of Fudge every decree needed to secure power at Hogwarts until she is able to take over. I'd say Umbridge is the not so subtle power behind Fudge's throne.

As for Pansy, if there is a parallel between the two, what does that imply? Maybe she is more powerful that we give her credit for. Maybe she whispers poison in Draco's ear to maintain his fervent animosity towards Harry and his crew. She's described in SS as a hard-faced Slytherin girl. I think the simpering is just an act for the both of them.

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Verbina - Apr 26, 2004 9:18 pm (#22 of 231)
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An act yes, but to what end? Why would they simper around Fudge and Draco but to get their way by "greasing the wheels" so to speak. From Umbridge it is an obvious thing what she wants. She is not so much a DE supporter but she is fanatical in her wish to make things appear perfect and to have everything be to her satisfaction. But there was almost a sick twisted type of loyalty thing going on between Umbridge and Fudge.

With Pansy, who knows what it could be. It could be that she does like Draco and hopes to get in his good graces by bowing to his whims and simpering at appropriate moments, like when Draco was injured by Buckbeak. And she did simper there!

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Lupin is Lupin. Natch. - Apr 26, 2004 9:33 pm (#23 of 231)
Sometimes known as Kim.
Well, I think it is to get their way. They want the power of the office behind them so they coddle the respective leaders--after all Draco heads up his little band of thieves. And yes she really did simper after the Buckbeak incident but I think she was laying it on a bit thick for Draco's benefit and to help his cause of getting rid of Hagrid. I think that hard-faced girl is going to turn a bit nastier before this is all over.

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Verbina - Apr 26, 2004 10:21 pm (#24 of 231)
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Oh I agree there!! I think quite a few are going to turn nastier before this is all over.

And yes, power would seem the main reason for most of it. But like I said with Umbridge...it is weird but for some reason I saw her as a woman with her own ideas of a perfect world. Fudge figured into that somehow, so perhaps she had a crush on him or something. O_O She was essentially the wizarding world's version of Aunt Petunia!!!!

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Chemyst - Apr 27, 2004 6:52 am (#25 of 231)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Barb and interested others, there is an about.com site with interactive Color Psychology pages that are fun to play around with. (The pick-a-color boxes are all showing up as white on my monitor but the links still work.) I'm not sure I'd give too much weight to the conclusion on greens as they apply to HP. Green indicates wealth, Emerald green is immortality, Olive green is peace; but I think JKR uses Olive as more of a slimy-algae pond scum thing.

Here is some of what they said about pink: Dr. Alexander Schauss, Ph.D., director of the American Institute for Biosocial Research in Tacoma Washington, reported that when prison cells were painted pink, it reduced aggressive behavior among prisoners. [...] It’s a tranquilizing color that saps your energy. Even the color-blind are tranquilized by pink rooms”, according to Dr. Schauss. Such a effect, unfortunately however, was short-lived as later studies would show. It appears that once the body returns to a state of equilibrium, a prisoner may regress to an even more agitated state. Other people tried to apply the above research finding. When Hayden Fry, who had a degree in psychology, was the football coach at the University of Iowa, he had the visiting team's locker room painted pink hoping to make the visiting team lose their energy and the aggressive drive for winning.

Hmm.. maybe that is where Umbridge ran off to-- a 'state of equilibrium'

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Madame Librarian - Apr 27, 2004 3:16 pm (#26 of 231)
Uh oh, what does this mean for the pink hoodie?

Thanks for the info, though, Chemyst.

Ciao. Barb

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Chris. - Apr 27, 2004 4:18 pm (#27 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Maybe the new director, Cuaron is trying to fixate us on the pink hoodie that'll sap our energy so we can't complain about the bits he misses out in the film.

Maybe not...

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Star Crossed - Apr 27, 2004 4:23 pm (#28 of 231)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Didn't work too well. The Evil Pink Hoodie of DOOM has us already complaining.

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The giant squid - Apr 28, 2004 12:06 am (#29 of 231)
I don't know about pink "reducing aggessive behavior." She's wearing the pink hoodie when she decks Malfoy, isn't she?

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Star Crossed - Apr 28, 2004 3:47 am (#30 of 231)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
She's wearing the pink hoodie 24/7. The only time she's not wearing it is when she's showing off her time turner in broad daylight. *hisses*

But so we don't get off topic and closed, I wonder what all the different reds means. You have Weasley red, but they all seem to be different tints. You have Lily red. You have Dumbledore red. So many reds. Does anyone know? I don't know where to look, or I would look it all up.

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Padfoot - Apr 28, 2004 12:50 pm (#31 of 231)
I found a good web site that lists meanings of color. colors

Some descriptions for red are: Fire Love Passion Energy Revolution Anger Power Debt Danger Heat Warning

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Chris. - Apr 28, 2004 1:10 pm (#32 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Lily's hair has been described as dark red, which is not very helpful.

Dumbledore's red hair in 1940s was described as auburn. While now, he has white and sometimes described as grey hair.

The Weasley's hair, mainly Ron's, has been described as red, flaming red and bright red.

I've always thought red hair symbolized power. Well... maybe that's just because I have red hair.

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Madame Librarian - Apr 28, 2004 8:14 pm (#33 of 231)
My sister's a redhead. We always were told that redheads have fiery tempers. Seemed to fit in my sister's case. Not now, though, mostly when we were younger. Then again, we don't share a bedroom now. I was probably her primary source of anger come to think of it.

Ciao. Barb

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VeronikaG - Apr 29, 2004 2:25 am (#34 of 231)
My neighbor family have red hair, and boy are they hot headed!

I think JKR gives her character, the good ones, features she likes herself. Perhaps she think red hair is very pretty. That way it could be a sign that red haired people are good. Even Percy, deep down.

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Padfoot - Apr 29, 2004 9:03 am (#35 of 231)
I have some relatives (second cousins I think) that all have red hair (the parents and the four boys). They are the kindest, most even tempered people I know. Actually the mom reminds me of Molly Weasley a little bit, but not the temper part. Might be the home schooling or the loving nature.

That being said, I see Ron as being rash, or hot headed (= red hair). I think it's interesting the HRH all have different colored hair.

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Robert Dierken - May 6, 2004 9:12 pm (#36 of 231)
I call to your attention a certain pair of socks that Dobby made for Harry. One of them is red (Gryffindor?) and the other is green (Slytherin?).

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Phelim Mcintyre - May 7, 2004 6:46 am (#37 of 231)
What then about the Weasley knitted jumpers. Why mauve for Ron? Especially as it is also the colour of the dress robes brought by his mum?

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popkin - May 7, 2004 7:09 am (#38 of 231)
mother
Who besides Ron wears mauve? What do they have in common?

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draco all the way - May 7, 2004 9:38 am (#39 of 231)
Mauve? I thought it was maroon!

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Star Crossed - May 7, 2004 12:24 pm (#40 of 231)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes, maroon. When I think of maroon, I think of a reallllly old football team that used to play here. They became victorious for about two years, then no one cared anymore. o.0

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Phelim Mcintyre - May 10, 2004 7:15 am (#41 of 231)
Oops, my mistake. Thanks Draco, it is maroon not mauve.

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Ozymandias - May 11, 2004 4:40 pm (#42 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
When Dumbledore is first introduced in PS/SS, his hair and beard are described as silver. I'm not sure, but I believe this description is used elsewhere too. If silver is the color of Slytherin/evil, what could this mean?

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popkin - May 11, 2004 4:47 pm (#43 of 231)
mother
I don't think silver means something is evil. Many of Dumbledore's instruments are silver, the swirling thoughts in the Pensieve are silver, I think the Veelas' hair is silver (is that right?), the ghosts are silver, and Wormtail's new hand is silver. I don't see the connection between these things, but I do think there probably is one. Many of them are elusive things - ghosts, thoughts, Wormtail's hand (formed from smoke). But I don't see the Slytherins as elusive or ephemeral. ?????????????

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Catherine - May 11, 2004 4:55 pm (#44 of 231)
Canon Seeker
Um... the crystal ball tells me it means....old age!

I am joking, naturally. We have positive Silver references...adolescent unicorns, for example. The moon, too, can be silver, and Fleur's hair, which is beautiful and seductive. But we in the west also deal with "thirty pieces of silver" from Judas, which symbolize betrayal. Silver might be a color that is "frought" with too much meaning throughout cultures to really decide what the truth is.

At this time, I don't know myself, so perhaps I shouldn't have posted at all. Excuse me in advance if that's the case. I'm hoping by the end of the 7th book I will know more.

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popkin - May 11, 2004 11:20 pm (#45 of 231)
mother
The invisibility cloak is also silver - also somewhat ephemeral and elusive, in that it makes the wearer invisible.

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Phelim Mcintyre - May 20, 2004 3:05 am (#46 of 231)
I've found something on Maroon. It means self empowerment. How appropriate! Here is poor Ron feeling little and over shadowed by his brothers, and his mum uses maroon. Is she attempting to help Ron build his self confidence? If so it doesn't seem to be working.

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Phelim Mcintyre - May 27, 2004 9:24 am (#47 of 231)
Moving on the meaning of colour idea, what about names. From Violet, to Lavendar, and even Petunia and Pansy. Any guesses or theories?

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Mellilot Flower. - May 27, 2004 11:03 am (#48 of 231)
Pixie led
does anyone find it significant that the lettering on the marauders map is green?

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Star Crossed - May 27, 2004 12:26 pm (#49 of 231)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lavender Brown, even. That really amused me. Especially because when the two colours are combined, they clash horribly, when Lavender is all about looking nice.

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Phelim Mcintyre - May 28, 2004 3:21 am (#50 of 231)
Chloe, didn't Rita Skeeters pen write in green ink or was just the pen green? Is this the colour of magical ink?

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Mellilot Flower. - May 28, 2004 3:25 am (#51 of 231)
Pixie led
It can't be the colour of all magical ink as Harry is fascinated by a ink that changes colour- but now that I think of it the Hogwarts letters are written in green ink as well aren't they? Curse school, no books to hand.

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Phelim Mcintyre - May 28, 2004 3:34 am (#52 of 231)
Now Chloe! What are you meant to be doing? And I bet you're teachers wouldn't want green ink on your work.

But may be that was why Harry was fascinated by the colour changing ink. That he was only used to green stuff. I will check out the start of Prisoner of Azkaban to see if it says what colour he wrtes in. But I think you're right about the Hogwarts letters being in green. Does it mention what colour the ministry of magic letters are in?

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Mellilot Flower. - May 28, 2004 3:56 am (#53 of 231)
Pixie led
Worry not, I'm not supposed to be doing anything apart from messing around with files on the computer.

I think the colour changing ink was in PS and I can't remember a colour on the ministry letters, the interdepartmental memos deffinately had a colour though I can't remember what that was...

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Tomoé - May 28, 2004 6:44 am (#54 of 231)
Back in business
Interdepartmental memos : pale violet paper, nothing about the ink color.

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Phelim Mcintyre - May 28, 2004 8:12 am (#55 of 231)
If it was green ink on pale violet paper - yukkk! How vile.

As to Lavender Brown. I looked up two different sources. One on the language of flowers. Lavender means distrust.

The other was a meaning of colours site. Brown represets honesty, practicality and being down to earth. Is this dear Lavender Brown who hero worships Proffesor Trelawny.

Lavender is the colour of balance and eqilibrium. Again not too like this wonderful character.

There are probably other meanings to these words. And it is more likely that J K Rowling just chose them as she liked them.

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Chemyst - May 28, 2004 8:31 pm (#56 of 231)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Until I read this thread, I always thought of Miss Brown's first name "Lavender" in terms of the "pale purple" meaning. But when Phelim put her in the same sentence with Petunia and Pansy, the fact that Lavender is a plant just jumped at me. Latin name Lavendula officinalis. It's a plant that has clusters of fragrant bluish-purple flowers that render a fragrant oil. The dried flowers and leaves of the lavender plant are used to perfume clothes, linen, bath oils, etc. "Perfume" fits not only with her having a girly personality, but might also indicate she shares Trelawny's affinity for a perfumed classroom. 'English Lavender' is often thought of as an old-fashioned fragrance.

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 12, 2004 10:10 am (#57 of 231)
Crazed Writer
I was really thrilled to see this thread! I'm new to the Forum, but I'm the leader of a group of Harry Potter sleuths back home, and our special interest is in figuring out the HIDDEN MEANINGS behind the "running bits" (this name is from Wizarding World Press) that J. K. Rowling uses repeatedly in her stories.

Colors are some of the most important running bits, and we've spent a disproportionate amount of time on them. These are our best guesses so far:

Silver -- magical power

Pink -- Secrets

Blue -- revelation of secrets (notice that Moody's magical eye was "electric blue"; that means it's an "artificial revealer of secrets")

black -- lies or the enemy

red -- truth or courage (SCARlet is especially associated with Harry)

purple -- probably authority, especially government. Dumbledore first appeared in purple (he had public authority); but purple's getting to be a bad color as the Ministry falls into enemy hands!

orange -- maybe danger; we're not quite sure on this one.

green -- this one's a toughy! We THINK it's influence or power over people, because a lot of influencial witches and wizards have worn green (Prof. McGonagall and Arthur Weasley are examples.) We think green and silver are Slytherin colors because that's what Slytherins want: power and influence.

Haven't a clue on gold yet; we're still working on that one. Anyone got ideas? You need to compare it to the way it's used. For example, there are gold magical plates, gold is a Gryffindor color, and the chains on the chairs in the courtrooms turn gold when they wrap around peoples' arms to hold them to the chairs.

All the adjectives associated with colors are important (Lockhart wore forget-me-not blue -- hehe!), but some of the meanings are sneaky. Dark colors may mean "more so", or they might be bad (mixed with black).

A lot of words used repeatedly have meanings like this. Round things and spiders ALSO mean unrevealed secrets. You can find a lot of hidden clues by identifying these meanings. That's why our group's called the Round Pink Spiders.

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popkin - Jun 12, 2004 11:53 am (#58 of 231)
mother
Welcome to the forum, RPS!

I am also interested in the meanings of the colors in JKR's world. She said her favorite book when she was a little girl was The Little White Horse, and it appears on the bookshelves in her official website. In it every color has a special meaning, and I think JKR has done the same thing in the Harry Potter series.

How clever of you to notice SCARlet. I wonder if the word "scar" is hidden in any other words associated with Harry.

I think the descriptors are as important as the colors alone - like lime-green seems to mean something different from green. I think that Lily's green eyes are a very good thing, but lime-green seems to indicate an affinity with Fudge, or maybe dirty money or corruption. He wears a lime-green bowler hat, seems to have his fingers in St. Mungo's (which has a LOT of lime-green references), and works at the MOM.

Pale-pink is associated with Pansy Parkinson and Umbridge (definitely evil), but bubblegum-pink is linked to Tonks (secretive, yes, but not necessarily evil). Pansy and Umbridge might have secrets, but I think the pale-pink is more of a shallow attempt to hide a poisonous personality.

It might be helpful to take one color at a time and compare the book references to see what patterns emerge.

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 12, 2004 5:05 pm (#59 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Hi, popkin, thanks for the welcome.

JKR has not only assigned meanings to each color, but to most animals, and quite a few objects and actions. But since this is off-topic, I can't address it here. I don't know of any other "scar" words, but she described Frank Bryce as "pottering" in the garden at the beginning of book 4.

Lime-green is a particularly nasty one! You ready? Lime was at one time put on corpses to make them break down faster. You guessed it --it's a DEATH EATER. (Hint, hint) Pretty icky to see that in a hospital, what? Apparently Fudge thinks like a Death Eater; that's why it's on his hat. There are other Death Eater hints of this kind.

Now, bubble-gum pink. Bubbles are associated with disappearances. (Again, can't go into the details here.) When Harry first saw Tonks, her hair was a "violent shade of violet" (p.47 in OotP). The descriptors imply that something was imposed on her by force, probably by the current regime (Fudge?). When she went upstairs with Harry to help him pack, she said that purple wasn't really her color, and that it made her look peaky (sickly). So she "screwed up her eyes" (spirals reveal secrets -- opposite of circles and round things)as if "struggling to remember something" and her hair turned bubble-gum pink. Because it's on her head, we believe that it represents what's inside her head. So something in her head has been made to disappear by force, something that she's "struggling to remember" -- she's been subjected to a memory charm. This would explain why Tonks is so clumsy -- it's one of the side effects of memory charms (just like Neville).

I know this may seem like a stretch at first, but there are a lot of these. JKR specifically said in an interview that she wants her fans to be able to guess what's coming if they've got their wits about them.

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shepherdess - Jun 12, 2004 6:11 pm (#60 of 231)
55 year old mother of 3, step-mother of 2, grandmom to 3, living in Oklahoma
RPS, have you seen the thread "Hidden Meaning in Hair"? Because it deals with color, I thought it might interest you (particularly the three charts linked in Tomoe's post #192). You can find that thread in the folder "Archived Threads: Since Reorganization".

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Julia. - Jun 12, 2004 8:39 pm (#61 of 231)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Oh, I like the lime green=Death Eater one. THis just further plays into the theory that Fudge is a DE, or at least working for Voldie, afterall, he does wear a lime green bowler.

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 13, 2004 6:40 am (#62 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Wow, thanks, shepherdess! What a great resource for my sleuthing group! We haven't started addressing hair and hair color yet (aside from Tonk's spiky pink hair). I like the Nazi thing, but I'm also intrigued by the "black hair means early death" thing (scary, considering how many people have black hair, but JKR HAS spoken of a 'bloodbath').

I can tell you, though, that eye color applies to how the person relates to OTHERS. So a person with blue eyes is able to see others' secrets (Dumbledore, Moody, Bagman). [Moody used to have "dark eyes" -- he saw the evil in others. Now he's got one of each.] Harry's green eyes probably mean he has power or influence over others (JKR has said that his eyes may hold a special power, but she's being very secretive about that). And Voldemort's red eyes mean (surprise, surprise) that he can tell when others are telling the truth. They also reflect his being murderous, because blood and the sacrifice of blood are VERY, VERY important in the stories.

We haven't figured out yet any significance for any other eye color, and a lot of times it isn't mentioned.

By the way, Popkin, I didn't say it in #59, but thanks for The Little White Horse info! I guess that explains a lot. And yes, taking the colors, objects, shapes, etc. one at a time, going through a book and watching for a pattern to emerge IS how we figured these out. It's very helpful to get a cheap paperback copy and a highlighter, and mark them up. Synonyms are important, too (i.e., rosy, magenta, blush all mean pink).

If you do this, you find duplication in meaning (round, pink, spiders, circles all mean secrets; spirals, blue, snakes, screws all mean revelation of secrets; etc.) I'm sure she did this because you can't use the same words all the time in all situations (a round pink spider wouldn't be remotely scary, after all! Hehe).

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The giant squid - Jun 14, 2004 11:38 pm (#63 of 231)
Another interesting happenstance of the color green: When the MoM sent cars to pick up Harry, Hermione & the Weasleys in PoA, both the cars and the cloaks the drivers were wearing were green. Combine that with Fudge's green bowler and you have...well, something, I'm sure.

At the very least, green seems to be the official color of the Ministry of Magic.

--Mike

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popkin - Jun 15, 2004 7:35 am (#64 of 231)
mother
What about emerald green, RPSpider? Harry gets an emerald green sweater from Mrs. Weasley. What do you figure that means?

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 16, 2004 4:14 pm (#65 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Hello, Squid. Actually, green seems to be associated with people with power or influence over others. Since a lot of people who are (or want to be) important end up in the ministry, you would see green there. But Prof. McGonagall has a great deal of power and influence, so she wears green too. Harry, who's starting to assume a leadership roll himself, is also appearing in green.

Why emerald green? I wish I knew! Right now, my best guess (and it's just fun speculation) is that it's a reference to the Wizard of OZ and the Emerald City, since (once he got over being a humbug) the Wizard of OZ did become a good wizard. Anyway, I think most greens are OK. But dark green and lime green seem to be bad. (And both the Dark Mark and Avada Kedavra make green light!)

Actually, Squid, I think the OFFICIAL official color of the ministry is purple (like the interdepartmental memos). I am guessing that purple is the authority color, and if we've never seen Fudge in it, maybe it's because he's never been confident in his authority (or never wielded it appropriately). Or maybe he just thinks it would really clash with that lime-green hat!

By the way, Popkin, you asked about other "scarlet" bits. Here's one I just remembered. As Dumbledore was illuminating Harry about the magic of his scar (p. 828) at the end of OotP, the sunlight was "illuminating a silver ink POT and a handsome SCARlet quill."

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The giant squid - Jun 16, 2004 7:36 pm (#66 of 231)
Thanks, RPS. You're right, purple would clash horribly with Fudge's bowler.

Following your theory of purple=power, perhaps Fudge never wears it because he's not really in charge? A puppet-king, so to speak.

--Mike

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popkin - Jun 16, 2004 7:38 pm (#67 of 231)
mother
I think Fudge does wear purple, doesn't he? Purple pin-striped pants? He wears quite an assortment of colors if I am remembering correctly.

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 19, 2004 9:31 am (#68 of 231)
Crazed Writer
You might be right, Popkin, but I don't remember. When I read the books originally I was reading them for story, and although we're going back and combing for details, that's A LOT of pages to comb! So I haven't run into this. I only remember the pin-striped cloak (respectable on the outside, what?), but something may have been purple. Yuck, what a combination.

My daughter just found the thread about the 7 trials representing the 7 books, and we're very excited about that. Just as a quicky point about color, notice that, in the room with the bottles, the doors were barred by PURPLE fire behind and BLACK fire ahead. (Have you ever seen BLACK FIRE? Can you even imagine what that would look like?) If the room with the bottles represents the sixth book, then the danger from the Ministry (purple) was behind (in the fifth book), and the danger from the enemy (black) is ahead (seventh book). This is kind of a "Duh!", but I thought it was a neat detail.

Just to blow on the fire a bit, we're really worried about Mad-eye Moody, and this is why. There was a Death Eater named Evan Rosier whom Mad-eye supposedly killed. The problem is his name: EVAN ROSIER. Evan is connected to "Evanesco!" the vanishing spell, and the word "evanesce", which means to disappear like champagne bubbles (bubbles mean disappearances). Then there's his last name, Rosier. Rosier, as in more pink! If you put these together, that means he may have secretly disappeared. I think it was Sirius that commented that Mad-eye NEVER KILLED if he could help it.

If the room with the bottles represents the next book, then it's going to be about traitors ("Three of us are killers...") that Hermione has to identify. If our club is right, Evan Rosier may still be alive. (He could even have taken Moody's place years ago!)

I know JKR said we'll like the 'real' Moody even better than the fake one. We liked the fake one, too...

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oeddypus - Jun 19, 2004 2:49 pm (#69 of 231)
Purple boots. I've never forgotten Fudge's purple boots and lime green bowler. And navy pinstriped cloak.

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popkin - Jun 19, 2004 3:28 pm (#70 of 231)
mother
Yeah, the movies do not do his wardrobe justice, do they? He looks so sedate and official, whereas JKR has written his outfit as a gregarious, "look-at-me" compilation. Maybe in the wizarding world it isn't all that odd to wear so many colors and textures, though.

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Chris. - Jun 25, 2004 7:38 am (#71 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Nothing to do with colour, but Fudge's pinstripe cloak, with its visible lines, symbolizes Cornelius's feelings of entrapment, and lines in society that he cannot cross.

Also his bright lime green hat... (which I agree has something do do with Death Eaters and conspiracies) I also think his hat is lime green because it stands out and gives him a feeling of importance but also gives him a feeling of vulnerability.

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popkin - Jun 25, 2004 7:41 am (#72 of 231)
mother
Nice catch on the pinstripes, Prongs. I can see how that looks like a cage.

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 25, 2004 9:41 pm (#73 of 231)
Crazed Writer
More on colors...Rejoicing in our house tonight! I think I just figured out the meaning of gold after weeks of puzzling!

I think gold may be knowledge or wisdom. Connections:

Golden plates at the school (a "feast" of knowledge)

Age line was golden (kept out those who didn't know enough)

Chains on the arms of chairs in the courtroom turned gold and then snaked up suspects' arms (these chairs are for questioning suspects: snakes are tied to revelation of secrets, so suspects are to reveal their secret knowledge here).

Gilded -- Gilderoy Lockhart (faked knowledge)

If Slytherins want power and influence over others (silver and green), Gryffindors want truth(courage) and knowledge(wisdom).

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Scarlet Seer - Jun 30, 2004 11:57 am (#74 of 231)
Hmm... If RPS's theory about the hidden meanings of color is correct, the colors of the hardcover books and their bindings might be important. If this is true, than the messages sent by each book would be as following:

PS: (purple book, red binding) government authority bound by truth

CS: (blue book, green binding) revelation of secrets bound by others' influence

PoA: (green book, purple binding) influence bound by government authority

GoF: (red book, black binding) truth bound by lies or the enemy (fake Moody, Rita Skeeter)

OotP: (blue book, silver binding) revelation of secrets bound by magic (memory charms, perhaps?)

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Ozymandias - Jun 30, 2004 2:34 pm (#75 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
The only problem with that is that those are most likely determined by the indivdual publisher. Unless, that is, the UK bindings match the US ones?

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Chris. - Jun 30, 2004 2:45 pm (#76 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yes, they seem to match the covers except for the OP cover. I've got another colour thing: the careers advice leaflets.

The only leaflet that was described was the Muggle Relations one. It was desribed as a "bright and orange leaflet".

If we go by RPS's theories (which has started colours popping out at me!), it means secrets of dangers or danger of secrets. JKR did say the Muggles would start to notice strange things going on.

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 30, 2004 4:02 pm (#77 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Was that "bright PINK and orange", Prongs? Hmmm... I wonder...orange was only a possible. I might have orange wrong. Hostility, maybe? I suppose it COULD be secrets and danger, with Voldie about...I'll be checking that over the next couple of weeks. The pink I'm sure about, though. Yes, lots of secret-keeping, as it were, in Muggle relations.

Yes, do pay attention to the colors, there's lots of clues there. Colors and certain shapes (spots, cracks, circles, spirals, etc.) are the easiest ones.

So what colors are the UK versions of OotP? (Good following, Prongs!)

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Chris. - Jun 30, 2004 4:35 pm (#78 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I did mean to put "bright pink and orange leaflet" Sorry!

The OotP version has bands of red, gold/yellow and dark blue. The front is yellow with a picture Fawkes on the front.

and thanks, RPS!

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Round Pink Spider - Jun 30, 2004 5:20 pm (#79 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Wow. Is that a paperback? Our paperbacks just have the picture from the dust jacket. I wouldn't look for meanings in THOSE colors; they were probably chosen by the artist or the publisher.

(I'm getting dizzy chasing you around, Prongs. Stags can outrun spiders any day.)

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Chris. - Jun 30, 2004 5:23 pm (#80 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Lol RPS!

That's on the hardback edition. The paperback is not out in the UK yet.

(And P.S., Thinking about this riddle!... )

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 1, 2004 2:21 am (#81 of 231)
Isn't the auror leaflet discribed as small and dark. Or am I mistaken?

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Round Pink Spider - Jul 1, 2004 3:38 am (#82 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Phelim, as I recall (not looking at the books here), the leaflet is black, which would make sense as Aurors deal with the enemy/fighting the Dark Arts.

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Round Pink Spider - Jul 1, 2004 11:59 am (#83 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Earlier, I noted that gold might mean knowledge or wisdom. Another possible meaning might be truth. In that case, red would mean courage and gold would mean truth.

By the way, that would explain why aurors are called aurors: aurum is the Latin word for gold. If gold means truth, then aurors are those that try to find out the truth.

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popkin - Jul 1, 2004 2:12 pm (#84 of 231)
mother
But, most aurors did not seem like they were interested in discerning the truth. In GOF we learn that they became almost as bad as the Death Eaters in their eagerness to rid the world of Voldemort's minions. Crouch Sr. and company imprisoned innocents right along with the guilty, without due process. They were also not interested in justice, exactly. Their goal was to end Voldemort's reign of terror, regardless of the price. Moody was one of the few aurors who was above such behavior.

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Round Pink Spider - Jul 1, 2004 2:27 pm (#85 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Hi, popkin! In this case, I guess I should have said "those that are supposed to be finding out the truth!"

Not to get deeply philosophical here, but wars do tend to show what people and governments are really made of. I would think that those decent aurors like Moody and Frank and Alice Longbottom did try to seek justice and truth, rather than just a quick end to the war. But as they say, "The cream rises to the top...so does the scum."

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Ozymandias - Jul 2, 2004 12:00 am (#86 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
I think it was more Crouch Jr. than the aurors. He authorized them to use the Unforgivables, but we don't here if they used them, or how they felt on the matter. We've met quite a few aurors in the book. Moody, Kingsley and Tonks are all firmly on the side of good, and even, for instance, the aurors who come with Fudge to capture Dumbledore, seem to be guilty more of believing Fudge's propaganda than anything else.

I always read it as more of a commentary on the leaders in battle being out of touch with the troops, so to speak.

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 2, 2004 12:35 am (#87 of 231)
Ozymandias - just a quick correction. It was Crouch Sr who allowed the use of the Unforgiveables. Crouch Jr was the Death ater who got sent to Azkaban.

Also at stage the war was very dirty.

But back to the Auror leaflet, which was black. What colour writing did they use?

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Round Pink Spider - Jul 2, 2004 1:40 am (#88 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Don't remember Phelim, and I'm just about to fall into my black hole for a couple of weeks. Keep looking at the colors, you'll find so many clues; especially pay attention to descriptions of people's faces and eyes (read my earlier posts!) and you'll get extra information. Have fun!

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weasley by nature - Jul 5, 2004 1:44 pm (#89 of 231)
I was reading through the fourth book for fun and I noticed that they always seem to list the houses in this order: Gryffindor, Slytherin, Ravenclaw, and finally Hufflepuff. One of Gryffindor's colors is gold, one of Slytherin's is silver, one of Ravenclaw's is bronze and one of Hufflepuff's is black. This seems significant for this reason: when trophies or awards are handed out, gold means first place, silver second, bronze third, and well black doesn't have an award but it could mean an absense of award. This sort of plays into the value of their traits in the real world:

1) bravery is the most important thing in becoming successful because if you do not take chances big things will not come your way that is why gryffindor is gold

2) cunning is the next important because you must convince people of things in order to be successful, this is why slytherin is silver

3)intelligence is important but not extremely important because "it's not what you know, it's who you know," this is why ravenclaw is bronze

4)finally, being a good person is not that important in becoming successful because "nice guys finish last," so hufflepuff rarely sees any recognition

It really wouldn't change the books much or reveal anything plot wise. Except maybe that Harry will be victorious over Voldemort, because bravery is more important than cunning, but we kind of already know that. Oh well, just a thought.

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Star Crossed - Jul 5, 2004 2:14 pm (#90 of 231)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I always thought they were named in the order of Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, and Slytherin - ie, alphabetical order. I did notice the colours though. I posted a board about it, but it got munched a long time ago.

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popkin - Jul 5, 2004 10:33 pm (#91 of 231)
mother
I have to disagree with your fourth point, weasley by nature, simply because nice guys are very important in JKR's world. Look at Arthur Weasley. Are we to think of him as unsuccessful because he has chosen the better path (the one in which he has been true to himself - rather than the one in which he has advanced in the Ministry)? I think in JKR's world what goes around will come around, and Arthur will be Minister of Magic, will be rich and will have all the creature comforts which he has denied himself. Lucius Malfoy, on the other hand, will spend his fortune trying to clear his "good" name, and will come to the sticky end he predicted for Harry, simply because he is not a "nice" man - he's got bad karma.

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Detail Seeker - Jul 6, 2004 1:47 pm (#92 of 231)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Weasley by nature wrote:
Gryffindor, Slytherin, Ravenclaw, and finally Hufflepuff. One of Gryffindor's colors is gold, one of Slytherin's is silver, one of Ravenclaw's is bronze and one of Hufflepuff's is black.

Sorry to pour some water into the wine of your theory:
Medieval heraldic has two set of colours:
metals: gold and silver
plain colours: black, blue, red, green
That´s it. For cheapness´reasons, yellow represents gold and white is equivalent of silver.

So, Hufflepuff´s other colour is gold, too. Bronze would also be gold, as it is not an heraldical colour either, making Ravenclaw another "golden house".
Why can´t bronze be taken as red ?
That is, because red is a plain colour, while bronze is a metal. So, a rich and somewhat boasting knight family could have chosen to make his coat of arms gold-bronze, thus having two metals aside each other - and that was not allowed by heraldics (as well, as having two "plain colours" aside each other). so, none of these plain coulurs could be alternatively represented by a metallic one, though vice versa yellow and gold could replace a metal. Look at the combinations to understand why.

So, the hierarchy you created, does not lead far, I am afraid. Sorry.

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weasley by nature - Jul 8, 2004 3:19 pm (#93 of 231)
But popkin your examples show that currently my list holds true right? But I understand your point in that yes, in the end of the series I believe the good guys will conquer. Also, Arthur, while he is a nice guy, is in Gryffindor, so him succeeding would follow the trend that brave people will eventually succeed. Also I was saying that the order is the order that their traits contribute to success, not the order in which Rowling values them.

As for the order the houses are listed in, that was just how I noticed it but it doesn't really matter.

But I'm really confused by your post, Detail Seeker. What I don't understand is who decided that we are using medieval heraldic colors? ... Also what are "medieval heraldic colors"? I meant current day awards, like soccer trophies and things like that, have a hierarchy of colors the same as the Harry Potter books. Oh well, I guess it doesn't really work.

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Chemyst - Jul 8, 2004 4:32 pm (#94 of 231)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Also what are "medieval heraldic colors"? ~ WbN
You can find a brief explanation of heraldic tinctures here, or if your computer can handle greater speeds & graphics, here.

Although nothing in the Rowling cannon "requires" using only heraldry colours for the different houses, considering the date of Hogwarts founding, it makes sense for her to use colour this way.

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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 4:52 am (#95 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think maroon was mentioned AGES ago. I found out it means "Patient in battle, and yet victorious". Sort of sounds like Ron's skills in chess.

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Padfoot - Jul 23, 2004 9:33 am (#96 of 231)
On the Harry's 'ship uniting the houses thread we were discussing Harry's bottle green robes. I posted this there but thought it should be posted here too.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary on Yahoo: bottle green is: A dark to moderate or grayish green. And according to MSN Encarta, bottle green is: of a dark-green color, like certain types of wine bottles. I tried looking at several definitions of this color and most say the same thing, which isn't very helpful. I was hoping to find the color and post it here, but did not have much luck fining something that really worked. The problem with imagining a wine bottle color is that they come in different shades.

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Chris. - Jul 23, 2004 9:45 am (#97 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Well, bottle green sort of looks like growing grass. GoF was a time where Harry had to grow up quite fast.

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Round Pink Spider - Jul 23, 2004 11:15 am (#98 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Generally, Prongs, the adjective connected to a color in Harry Potter is a very meaningful clue, but it isn't always the color it applies to. Usually it's the person, as in Lockhart's "forget-me-not blue" robes. The forget-me-not applied to Lockhart's loss of memory as opposed to simply the color blue. I would interpret "bottle" in one of two ways:

1) bottle as in "the seven bottles" in the 6th task, Harry being one of the bottles (one of the two nettle wines, I believe)

2) bottle as in poison, since there are certainly enough poison references around Harry.

I would favor the first.

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Catherine - Jul 23, 2004 4:07 pm (#99 of 231)
Canon Seeker
Or "bottle" as wine was what came out of Harry's wand in GoF?

There's always another way to look at it!

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Chemyst - Jul 23, 2004 5:24 pm (#100 of 231)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
If you want a picture of "bottle green" glass then click:
necklace
drawer pull
tiles

And if you are a real geek, try the Book of Formulas Recipes, Methods and Secret Processes

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Round Pink Spider - Jul 23, 2004 9:58 pm (#101 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Catherine Allen -- I'm laughing a little here. Another topic. Ummm...our Potter group thinks we identified the four things that came out of the wands as four traditional spiritual sacrifices. We're not supposed to go into religion at all on this forum, and I heartily approve. So I'll just say that I think Harry's wine is associated (once again) with sacrifice, and leave it at that.

Yes, by the way, I think that's exactly why it was "bottle" green.

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The Artful Dodger - Jul 24, 2004 7:27 am (#102 of 231)
Hello to all, I made up my mind about colours, too, and I think green colour is often related to hope in literature. Now, Harry's green eyes can be simply connected to that: the wizarding world hopes that Harry will defeat Lord Voldemort once and for all. But it's much harder to find a connection of hope and Lily's green eyes, or even Slytherin green. Perhaps you can make something out of that...

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Verschwinden Sie - Jul 25, 2004 2:12 pm (#103 of 231)
Okay, this post may be a little non sequitur, but it's an answer to a question posed to me by Professor V elsewhere on the site, so please forgive me as I beg your indulgence.

To catch everyone up, I found it interesting that Harry is surrounded by the color red (the Sorcerer's stone was red, the Gryffindor standard contains red, Harry's mother's hair was red, the Weasley family's hair is red, the sword Harry used in CoS was encrusted with red jewels, Viktor Krum wore red robes and the spell that saved Harry in GoF was also red, etc...) and that Voldemort is surrounded by green (the slytherin standard is green, the AK curse is green, the basilisk was green, Voldemort's snake is green)... with the one exception being their eyes, which are exactly reversed.

So, I was asked what I thought the color of their eyes meant. To answer that, I have to first consider what the colors red and green generally mean. A lot can be said about both colors, most of it positive, and while I’m not going to go really “in depth” about some colors, we can consider a few things..

For instance, red can symbolize passion and desire, but also drive to achieve goals, courage, vitality, and power to survive; green can symbolize love and harmony, forgiveness and healing, personal transformation, warmth, and sharing…

And I think all these things personify Harry Potter fairly well, but generally don’t describe Voldemort at all… except perhaps his zeal for survival. But, I think the trick here is that the Universe J.K. Rowling has created revolves around Harry Potter, so everything we see has to be put in the context of “how does it relate to Harry”, because in one way or another everything in this Universe does.

The answer to that question, and largely to the question of the colors, is that Voldemort is Harry’s dynamic opposite. The two hold exactly the opposite things dear. They approach things in opposite ways, and more to the point, they simply believe in opposite things.

It wouldn’t surprise me, then, that not only are their relative color schemes completely opposite, but that the meanings of the colors would be completely opposite when applied to each other. If the presence of a color can be taken to symbolize courage and harmony in one, then it can be taken to symbolize cowardice and chaos in the other. So, first off I think any time we look at applying the significance of color to Voldemort, we must reverse the way we apply it to Harry Potter.

I also think the eyes are the windows to the world, and since we have two very solidly colored people, I think it’s significant that their eye colors are reversed because it literally shows them looking out to one another. Harry is sitting in his world of red, of courage and vitality, looking out with his eyes of green forgiveness and compassion, devotion and warmth and stares at Voldemort, in his world of green chaos and cold, mistrust and vengeance and malignance, who stares right back at Harry through his red eyes of fear and lividity and living death.

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Professor V - Jul 25, 2004 7:04 pm (#104 of 231)
Andrew, that was great and thank you. I bow to the master(no Imperious Curse needed).

The reason I was asking about the eye colors being important is that I believe I remember a chat transcript were JKR implied that Harry's eye color (the color of Lily's eyes) would be important later on in the series. Can you extend your theory on how that might work?

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Hollywand - Jul 25, 2004 9:53 pm (#105 of 231)
Gryffindor
Hey, Andrew I am really intrigued by your post on the eye color, and so a question:

Forgive me everyone for bringing in discussion of the movies, but how do you think the oppositional color difference in the eyes will be resolved in the story? Daniel Radcliffe obviously has very blue eyes, so how do you think this will be resolved? I hope the movies won't drive the books. Nothing against Daniel, he's a great Harry Potter. But the inconsistency is nibbling at me like a little Death Nibbler......I'd appreciate any thoughts on the topic.

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Verschwinden Sie - Jul 26, 2004 3:41 am (#106 of 231)
Well, let me first ask... when did J.K. Rowling make her comment about Harry's eyes being important to the series? Was it before or after the Chamber of Secrets movie came out in theaters?

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Professor V - Jul 26, 2004 4:57 am (#107 of 231)
I think the chat I read was fairly recent, since the release of OotP. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find it again. I'll keep looking.

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Julia. - Jul 26, 2004 9:25 am (#108 of 231)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Is this the one you're looking for?

I think the color of Harry's eyes will matter in the books to come. Yes?
Hmmmm... maybe! (AOL chat, October 2000)

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Professor V - Jul 26, 2004 9:32 am (#109 of 231)
Julia, Thank you, 10 points to your house!

Andrew, there is a post by Round Pink Spider in the "connection between Harry and Voldemort" thread, that also mentions the importance of Harry's eyes. I'm looking forward to any insight you might have.

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Padfoot - Jul 26, 2004 2:25 pm (#110 of 231)
Edited by Jul 26, 2004 2:26 pm
I think the color of Harry's eyes will matter in the books to come. Yes? Hmmmm... maybe! (AOL chat, October 2000)

Don't you just love how definite and complete her answers are?

Edit: Thanks Chemyst for posting those pictures. I think the necklace picture is the closest to bottle green. Or at least the closest to what I have been imagining.

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The Artful Dodger - Jul 26, 2004 4:17 pm (#111 of 231)
I would just like to add that I think red and green are complementary colors (complementary meaning "opposite"). Fits in well with what Andrew posted...

EDIT: Just checked that. The complentary color to green is red indeed, according to this link.

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weasley by nature - Jul 27, 2004 4:13 am (#112 of 231)
I think this is stretching a little too far (the whole harry vs voldemort, red vs green idea).

Although I rarely like to use the movies as a reference, if eye color mattered it would be very easy to have Radcliffe wear colored contacts.

I always thought that the constant comment that Harry looks like his dad, but with his mother's eyes, was a simple allusion to the fact that he is mainly like his father, but he is also a bit like his mother. Or maybe to keep us from thinking that there would be a "star wars" twist in the end where Lily and James weren't really his parents. Or a comment that when people die they are not completely gone--they leave pieces of their lives in the world.

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Verschwinden Sie - Jul 27, 2004 5:48 am (#113 of 231)
Well, I feel like a bit of a dork posting after our weasley friend's comments about taking matters too far, but there are questions to be answered, so here goes!

First, how do I think the color of Harry's eyes will be important later in the series? I don't imagine their color is the most important thing about them. I think their color (green) is a way to link them to Harry's mother. Yes, there is some meaning to be found in the color (hope, forgiveness, healing, etc...), but I don't think that's where their primary importance lies, so I don't imagine it was so necessary to have Dan Radcliffe wear green contacts throughout the movies to reflect the fact Harry's eyes were green.

We have evidence in the series that points to both Harry's eyes being important because he can see things other people can't, and because he has his mother's eyes. For instance, in SS/PS during the test where Harry has to find the flying key, it's said that "Not for nothing, though, was Harry the youngest Seeker in a century. He had a knack for spotting things other people didn't."

Throughout the series, everyone from Dumbledore on down to complete strangers have been telling Harry he has his mother's eyes, so that has to be important, too. What is it about her eyes that's so important? Well, again, to be honest, I think that was answered in the third movie (much as I didn't like it).

I think at a certain point the film-makers looked up and said something like:

"Wait... Harry's eyes are supposed to be important later? Oh crud... how are we going to fix this one? He's been wandering through two different movies with the wrong bloody eyes already."

"Hey, I know, how about a scene where we just explain why they're important and move on with life?"

"THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!"

And what did they explain? To quote Lupin in the POA movie:

"You know, the very first time I saw you, Harry, I recognized you immediately. Not by your scar, but by your eyes. They're your mother, Lily's. Yes, oh yes, I knew her. Your mother was there at a time for me when no one else was. Not only was she a singularly gifted witche, but she was also an uncommonly kind woman. She had a way of seeing the beauty in others even after, perhaps most especially, when that person could not see it themselves.

Your father, on the other hand, had a talent for, shall we say, trouble... a talent rumour has it he passed on to you. You're more like them than you know. In time you'll come to see just how much."

So here we have several places, in both book and movie, where it's said that Harry sees things others don't... where it's said that Harry has his mother's eyes, and where we're told in no uncertain terms what it is that Lily could see which thers could not.

Do I figure the color of Harry's eyes is important in the books? Yes. The color both connects Harry's eyes to Lily's and also suggests what properties are important in the fact Harry has those particular eyes. Do I figure it's the most important thing? No. I think it's the fact they're Lily's eyes that's important, because that's really where most everything about Harry's eyes seems to be pointing.

As to how they're going to get out of the fact Harry has blue eyes in the movies, well, they just did that by simply saying "he's got Lily's eyes" and completely ignoring what color either Harry or Lily's eyes were supposed to be.

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Round Pink Spider - Jul 27, 2004 6:56 am (#114 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Someone (Prongs? Catherine Allen?) pointed out that Harry's dress robes were bottle green a while back. Thanks! I want to post this, from my local newsletter. It's a comment about Snape's riddle and the "twins once you taste them."

Harry, at least, may be one of the "twins" in the riddle! According to the solution, the twins are the nettle wine. Mrs. Weasley was good enough to buy Harry bottle green robes for the Yule Ball (book 4, p. 156). Not only that, in book 5 on p. 487, J. K. R. said that Harry was feeling “nettled”. And let’s not forget that Harry’s wand produced wine during the weighing of the wands (book 4, p. 311)!

There have been other "bottle" references to Harry, too -- the only one I can recall at the moment being in OotP, after Harry's angry outburst, when the twins teasingly told him he ought not "bottle up" his anger. :-)

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Hollywand - Jul 27, 2004 8:48 am (#115 of 231)
Gryffindor
Andrew, I really admire your incisive comparison of the text and the movies. So eloquent!

To bring in a detail from "reality" that supports your analysis, Warners initially had Radcliffe try to wear green contacts to make Harry's eyes green, but Radcliffe has an allergic reaction to the contacts. To change eye color digitally in an actor with that many scenes in the movie would be challenging.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I think that at this juncture Rowling decided to make the eye metaphor primarily symbolic, and not allow the actual color dominate the central theme of the story. I think the metaphorical interpretation took precedent over the color symbols she began with.

The fact that Voldemort's eyes are red, a color we never see in humans in nature, and that the green color of Harry's eyes oppose red on the color wheel(of course the two opposing houses), suggests that initially Rowling intended to use eye color symbolically.

The particular Lupin quote you selected perfectly illustrates the transition from symbol to metaphor. Thanks very much for the thoughtful reply!!! Ummmm...You're not Jo, are you? Don't tell me, I'd rather not know if you are! :-)

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Hollywand - Jul 27, 2004 10:40 am (#116 of 231)
Gryffindor
From the exchange above I just had the following insights about the red/green color duality, see if they fit. A key core message regards the courage in Harry's heart. On the Harry Potter thread I have posted some recurring references (eg Harry's patronus is a Hart).

Cast aside the consideration that Daniel Radcliffe's eye allergy may have driven the books, and return to the consideration that Harry's eyes in the books are green.

Harry has green eyes to symbolize Lilly's compassion, and a warm, red, courageous Couer de Leon. Voldemort has the red eyes of the power-hungry, as red, at least here in Hollywood, is paraded around as a "power color". Voldemort has the green, cold heart of a snake. And so, heart and soul, the two are opposing forces. Red and gold metals: soft warm red heart/Slytherin Green and silver: cold metal, cold color, but silver a stronger metal than gold, although gold is more highly valued.

Voldemort rules through fear and pain of death. His Death Eaters are addicted to pain and cruelty, as pain is a much more intense feeling than pleasure. This is why many people who feel emotionally numb do things like pierce themselves in tender areas that never heal; the pain makes them feel more alive. They feel emotional pain, and grow to enjoy inflicting this pain on others as Bellatrix points out to Harry.

While the body may be destroyed and dominated, one must win the love and heart of another. This is why Fawkes loves Dumbledore, and why Dumbledore is capable of rearing up such a powerful weapon against Voldemort as Harry Potter. Voldemort could never tolerate such a talented protege without destroying him. Personally, I think this is an analogy for a lot of abusive parents who hate the talents in their children rather than nurture them.

And so Harry's power is in his warm, red, four-chambered heart, and he will ultimately win the allegience of Hogwarts' four houses through leadership and unity.

Rowling describes the next two books in a sort of duality, and I surmise that we will see this duality continued in the final two books.

Thanks for bearing with this lengthy post, and I hope it has at least some useful insights.

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Mrs. Sirius Black - Jul 27, 2004 1:12 pm (#117 of 231)
Also known as Meg...
Hello everyone! Really great posts on this thread, I've been reading this one religiously since recently joining the forum.

As for the discussion on Lily's eye color. I've always believed that the green color used in the book alluded to the fact that they are "magic" eyes, perhaps with some special power or sight. Maybe I am wrong, but has not green been used to signify magic in literature in the past?

As for this being a complication in the movies. I really don't think it matters. If they are indeed magic eyes, it really doesn't hold that they have to be green. I just think JKR threw that in there as a clue for us readers. It might have been helpful in the films, but certainly not necessary. Andrew posted great thoughts on this, so no need for me to continue with it here.

The only problem I have when using the color green as an indicator that Lily's eyes are indeed magical, is her apparent muggle birth. These eyes obviously have not been passed down from magical wizard to magical wizard in her case, unless there is more to her lineage than we know. Being that we don't have a real backstory on Lily herself, I really can't answer any of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that Lily was not born magical, but received her talents (and magic eyes) as a gift when she was young. Could also explain Petunia's jealous remarks a bit more...

Sorry if that last bit was a tad off-topic. The significance of the green in the eyes just seemed to lead me to that idea.

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Elanor - Jul 30, 2004 4:36 am (#118 of 231)
Hi Hollywand ! It took me some time to find you here (I’m terrible with a computer – when I have to do something new, I suddenly feel like Harry in divination ...), but I’m getting better !

I found your last post really interesting, and it is in harmony with what we said about Fawkes – red and gold – and his warm, strengthening power. You asked me for the heraldic meanings of that colours : I will go deeper into the subject soon (I know the book we need and will be able to borrow it tonight !).

Connected to your thoughts, I think, is the meaning of the gems which symbolize each Hogwart’s house, especially ruby and emerald.

Ruby is the « blood stone », emblem of happiness. He was known to fight against venom (here, we meet the snake again) and to be the last thing which shines through the darkness. This is possibly an image of the last hope in a troubled time. It was sometimes named carbuncle, and was known then to be the only eye of dragons.

Emerald is the « green light stone » and it was known for having a regenerative powers, and it could penetrate the most obscure secrets (which is in harmony with what we know about ambitious Slytherin). Mysterious and dangerous stone, it was a powerful talisman : born of Hell, it could turn against devilish creatures because it knew their secrets. It is also the « secret knowledge stone » and was symbolizing the cursed science. This could fit well with the attraction for the dark arts the slytherin students have often felt... Don’t you think so ?

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Hollywand - Jul 30, 2004 5:57 am (#119 of 231)
Gryffindor
A stunningly wonderful post Elanor, thank you! I look forward to learning more if you find additional information.

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Chemyst - Jul 30, 2004 3:51 pm (#120 of 231)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
As for Harry looking like his dad but having his mother's eyes....

My spin on it has been that for others to look at Harry, they will see his dad's features, but when Harry looks at others, he looks at them, not with his dad's cockiness, but with his mother's insight.

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KWeldon - Jul 31, 2004 10:53 am (#121 of 231)
I'm sure this has been mentioned before in the context of Harry's/Lily's eyes, but isn't the most common saying about eyes that they are the "windows to the soul", so that given that Harry has her eyes, JKR is really saying that Harry's soul is more similar to Lily's than to James'? What significance would the color green have in this respect?

What if, or how could, this tie into the various versions of Voldemort's-and-Harry's-souls-being-linked theories?

Happy Birthday, Harry and Jo!!

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Steve Newton - Aug 1, 2004 6:57 pm (#122 of 231)
Librarian
Way back Round Pink Spider did an outstanding analysis of color. One of the things she mentioned was that, as far as she could tell, black stood for lies or the enemy.

I find this unsettling since Hagrid's is described as having black beetle eyes.

I count this 3 times is SS/PS in chapters 4 and 5. Again in chapter 2, I think, of CS. Chapter 6 of POA. More in GOF, chapters 18, 24, 28 and 37. None that I can find in OOTP.

I have come to trust Hagrid and would not like to think of him as a liar or the enemy.

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Chris. - Aug 1, 2004 7:35 pm (#123 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Maybe it's because he sees through lies, as in he figures out the truth.

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Solitaire - Aug 1, 2004 10:49 pm (#124 of 231)
On the Wormtail thread, I posted that I'd forgotten about the first time we see Ron on the Hogwarts Express, trying to cast a spell on Scabbers. He is attempting to turn him yellow. Could this be significant? Isn't yellow often considered the color of a coward or traitor?

S.E. Jones suggested I post this here and see what Round Pink Spider had to say.

Oh! And now that I think of it ... didn't Moaning Myrtle say that the last thing she remembered seeing before she died was "a pair of great, big, yellow eyes"?

Solitaire

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S.E. Jones - Aug 1, 2004 11:13 pm (#125 of 231)
Let it snow!
I have a question. I don't usually follow color clues, so I shall bow to those whose knowledge of color excedes my own. What do you all make of Emmeline Vance's "emerald green shawl"? What might that say about this "stately looking witch"?

Anyone?

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Round Pink Spider - Aug 2, 2004 4:33 am (#126 of 231)
Crazed Writer
I haven't looked in on this thread for a long time, so it's rather ironic I picked a moment when someone had a question for me. Thanks for the compliment, Steve. I've said in the past that I think the color of eyes shows what the person can see, rather than what the person is.

Maybe it's because he sees through lies, as in he figures out the truth.

I would say probably say that he sees (can identify) enemies, since we've seen that he can be misled. I think that goes along with all those deceased ferrets and stoat sandwiches. The beetles bit is probably connected to all the roach references, which I haven't figured out yet.

On the Wormtail thread, I posted that I'd forgotten about the first time we see Ron on the Hogwarts Express, trying to cast a spell on Scabbers. He is attempting to turn him yellow. Could this be significant? Isn't yellow often considered the color of a coward or traitor?

S.E. Jones suggested I post this here and see what Round Pink Spider had to say.

Oh! And now that I think of it ... didn't Moaning Myrtle say that the last thing she remembered seeing before she died was "a pair of great, big, yellow eyes"?

And the ultimate irony...my daughter and I haven't figured out yellow yet! We've only just started...But considering that the basilisk has yellow eyes, don't bet on it meaning "cowardice." "Traitor," maybe (I don't trust ghosts who spy on people taking baths), or "danger of sudden demise."

I have a question. I don't usually follow color clues, so I shall bow to those whose knowledge of color excedes my own. What do you all make of Emmeline Vance's "emerald green shawl"? What might that say about this "stately looking witch"?

Quite a long time ago, I suggested that maybe green means leadership or influence, because we've seen Arthur Weasley, Harry, Prof. McGonagall, and other important witches and wizards in this color. I said at the time that my only guess about the "emerald" part was (considering all the literary references) that it was a reference to The Wizard of OZ, who lived in the Emerald City, and was regarded as a leader.

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Solitaire - Aug 2, 2004 12:32 pm (#127 of 231)
Since I've not yet read all of the posts on this thread, there may be a more complete explanation farther back. However, I found a site that talks about the Significance of Colors. It has several lists, one of which shows the meaning of colors in heraldry. Just FYI ...

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Elanor - Aug 2, 2004 12:41 pm (#128 of 231)
Well, this is what I have found concerning the meaning of colors on crests.

First, in the Middle Ages, the function of crests was to pick out the combatants in tournaments and battles. But it wasn't reserved for noble people : bourgeois could have one too. At the beginning, colors and illustrations were freely chosen, then people seeked symbols evoking their name, their title or something related to the history of their family. Two families of the same kingdom couldn't have the same crest, but one could give, sell or bequeath his crest.

On crests, colors were strictly controlled. They were called colours and you could see : - metals : gold (yellow) and silver (white) - colors : gules (red), azure (blue), sable (black), sinople (green), purpure (purplish red) - furs : combination of two metal/colors, like vair (silver and azure) or ermine (silver with black spots)

As the illustrations, colors carried symbols : combinated, it was a kind of language families used to keep jealously. Their meaning is refering to the christian spirit of that times, it is the same as the meaning of colors you could find on cathedrals for exemple (and not a specific one for crests) : white was for faith, green hope, red love and charity, black penitence, white chastity. But the other symbols of the colors could apply to crests too : blue for the sky, the spirit, the color of the thought; yellow for the light, the intuition...

Sorry for the length ! I hope it will help you Hollywand ! But the most important thing concerning crests is that it really meant something for the people who chose one and they really wanted to say something through it. Somehow, their crests were certainly summarizing their deepest prides and beliefs, and so was it suely for the Hogwart's founders...

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Hollywand - Aug 2, 2004 1:32 pm (#129 of 231)
Gryffindor
Thank you very much Eleanor. I can't help thinking of the War of the Roses, and how the two royal houses in England are at last brought together with the White Rose and the Red Rose unified in a single shield. It took me a long time before I could understand the symbolism I saw all over the churches and schools in England.

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penguin patronus - Aug 3, 2004 5:12 pm (#130 of 231)
"The map never lies!"
Speaking of color, has anyone noticed that on the American editions of the HP books, the colors out so far have been the house colors? I'm sorry if this is long! Book#1= Gold for Gryffindor Book#2= Silver for Slytherin Book#3= Green for Slytherin Book#4= Bronze for Ravenclaw Book#5= Blue for Ravenclaw

I suppose this may not be important, but I just came across it awhile ago. I think the next American edition will be red, maybe yellow, and the seventh will be black. What do you think?

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Green Scarlet - Aug 6, 2004 12:31 pm (#131 of 231)
Harry's eye color is an interesting subject, especially since it is mentioned so often during the books.

This quote interested me from Order of Pheonix:

"Was this why DD would no lnger meet Harry's eyes? Did he expect to see Voldemort staring out of them, afraid, perhaps, that thier vivid green might turn suddenly to scarlet, with catlike slits for pupils?" (OoP, First sentance of Chapter 23)

This seems to note both green and SCARlet referring to Harry's eyecolor. Any ideas?

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schoff - Aug 7, 2004 12:07 pm (#132 of 231)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Voldemort's eyes are red and slit-like (GF 33 US644). DD knew that if he looked into Harry's eyes, he would not only see Harry looking at him, but Voldemort too (since Voldie was using Legimancy to "see" through Harry).

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Ann - Aug 7, 2004 12:33 pm (#133 of 231)
schoff, the line this comes right after Harry has overheard speculation that he is being possessed by Voldemort, and it is his own interpretation of DD's standoffishness. It doesn't refer to DD's thoughts at all.

I LOVE the line about dragons and ketchup. Brilliant! Sounds just like Gandalf!

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Verschwinden Sie - Aug 9, 2004 11:09 pm (#134 of 231)
You're not alone, Ann... that's been a favorite saying of mine for YEARS. It ranks right up there with "Geez... you're all hairless apes? That's REALLY disgusting!"

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Annika - Aug 10, 2004 10:34 am (#135 of 231)
I had a thought last night. I am not sure if it belongs in this thread or not. I apologize if it doesn't.

It is repeatedly mentioned that Harry's eyes are green "like his mother's". My question is "was Harry born with green eyes like his mothers or was this a transference that happen when she saved him from Voldemort? We know that the color of his eyes is important. Could this be part of the mystery behind why?

I suppose it could simply be that he inherited his mother's green eyes, and pointing this out time and time again reenforces that his mother's love and compassion reside within him, but I think there is more to it.

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Madame Librarian - Aug 10, 2004 11:33 am (#136 of 231)
A very interesting speculation, Annika. It would certainly dovetail nicely with the movie contamination from the fact that actor Dan was unable to have green eyes for the movies (can't wear contacts, apparently). But that also leads me to the conclusion that it couldn't possibly be too crucial that his eyes be green or JKR would have been unhappy with that and asked them to figure out a way to color-ize his eyes.

Ciao. Barb

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Annika - Aug 10, 2004 11:47 am (#137 of 231)
I think the crucial point about his eyes is that they are the same as his moms, which is mentioned in the movies (and considering how much they take out, that alone may say something). Though I think the color green will be significant in the books, having both mother and child have the same eye color may suffice for the sake of the movies.

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penguin patronus - Aug 11, 2004 9:21 pm (#138 of 231)
"The map never lies!"
I don't know if this has been said, but RED and GOLD sparks shot out of Harry's wand in Ollivanders' wand shop. Maybe this means he really is Godric's heir...After all, those are his house colors. Or, it could just mean that he would be in Gryffindor, but I'm not so sure.

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Ozymandias - Aug 11, 2004 10:49 pm (#139 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
Just in case I haven't yet proven myself to be a complete Harry Potter nerd, I'm working on a list of color usage in the books, especially which characters are associated with which colors. I've got the first two done so far. More to come...

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Chris. - Aug 13, 2004 4:57 pm (#140 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Anyone got an idea about Petunia's pink dress that she always wears when people come to Privet Drive for parties? It's been mentioned quite a few times.

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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2004 6:50 pm (#141 of 231)
Interesting ... isn't it Umbridge who always wears a fuzzy pink sweater? Hm ... could it be the color for concealing things (deception)? Umbridge certainly tried to hide her "true colors." Perhaps Petunia is doing the same?

Solitaire

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Ozymandias - Aug 13, 2004 8:31 pm (#142 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
Pansy also wears pink dress robes to the Yule Ball, and Hermione wears a pink bathrobe at least once. Neville is often described as pink-faced.

I can't for the life of me see what these characters have in common. I'm not so sure about secrets because the only examples of this we have are Umbridge and Hagrid's pink umbrella. Well, I guess Neville's secret could be something to do with his parents, and Pet's could be that she knows more about the WW than she lets on. Pansy?

I don't know.

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Solitaire - Aug 13, 2004 11:11 pm (#143 of 231)
Doesn't Hagrid's pink umbrella conceal the pieces of his wand? What was Hermione doing in her pink bathrobe--anything sneaky or suspicious (for her, I mean)? I don't remember, but it might be significant.

I am not sure being pink-faced is in the same category as wearing or carrying an actual pink item ... maybe?

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Madame Librarian - Aug 14, 2004 6:15 am (#144 of 231)
Colors and clothing--I think both elements are very symbolic and loaded with messages (clues, foreshadowing) throughout the series. When the two are combined, as they often are--it's so natural, JKR is jumping up and down on the sidelines, yelling "Pay attention, my dear readers, there's important stuff here!"

Now that I've stated the obvious (duh), I'm unable off the top of my head to come up with all the supporting citations and quotes. In the most general sense, and perhaps the hugest of all combinations of the two--color and clothing, that is--we have Dobby. But then there is Ron's agonizing over condition and color of his robes, the detailed description of the fashion crimes committed by Umbridge (I imagine it as a Pepto-Bismal or Barbie Doll pink), the house colors, eye and hair color. Oh, there's more...

I don't mean to generate a simple list here. I just want to expand the color thing to how it can direct the series when it's combined with another element--clothes.

I'm wondering if this merits a whole thread on its own. Can't make up my mind. Stay tuned.

In the mean time, I'm admiring anew JKR's cleverness at making pink (of the worst sort) associated with the negative side. (BTW, I aplogize in advance if many are fans of pink. Believe me, I'm not including all pinks in this category. Honest, some of my best t-shirts are pink, just not a particularly aggressive pink.)

Ciao. Barb

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TomProffitt - Aug 14, 2004 6:19 am (#145 of 231)
Bullheaded empiricist
Tonks is into pink. How does that fit with y'all's theory?

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Madame Librarian - Aug 14, 2004 6:48 am (#146 of 231)
Good catch, TomP. Tonks's pink is often associated with purple. How that alters it, I have no clue, though I suspect I'm supposed to be trying to noodle that one out. (Terrible grammar there.)

Or, at the worst, and I dearly hope not, we are supposed to keep an eye on Tonks. I like her a lot and hope there's no hidden agenda with the character.

Constant vigilance! is the best policy maybe.

Ciao. Barb

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Steve Newton - Aug 14, 2004 9:07 am (#147 of 231)
Librarian
It seems that Tonks occasionally has pink hair. She has secrets? This could relate to clumsiness and the alleged memory charms that may have been cast on her.

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Solitaire - Aug 14, 2004 9:36 am (#148 of 231)
Well, as Tonks IS a metamorphmagus, she is able to change and conceal her identity. That doesn't necessarily mean she is suspicious. I was just suggesting that perhaps pink was the color of concealment or hiding.

Solitaire

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Ann - Aug 14, 2004 9:53 am (#149 of 231)
Is Umbridge really hiding anything? I wouldn't think she has the imagination! Even her "secret" desire to cause pain is pretty obvious, though she may believe her "sweet" voice and smile cover it up.

I think Barb's observation about pink being associated with purple in Tonks (while it's usually paired with black in Umbridge, I think) may be significant. After all, the house colors are paired--perhaps it is the combinations of colors that hold the real significance?

Just trying to make life more difficult for those of you working out comprehensive color schemes for the whole series!

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Steve Newton - Aug 14, 2004 1:47 pm (#150 of 231)
Librarian
Round Pink Spider has posted quite a bit on color and has quite a bit of evidence that pink in the color of secrets. Not necessarily that Tonks is hiding something, maybe a memory charm is hiding something from her.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Ozymandias - Aug 14, 2004 3:35 pm (#151 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
Another person who wears pink: the Fat Lady. You could say she conceals the Gryffindor common room.

Tonks could be hiding something simply in the sense that being a metamorphmagus she is able to hide her true appearance. Hiding something isn't necessarily a sign of something bad, it depends on the nature of what's being hidden.

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Solitaire - Aug 14, 2004 3:47 pm (#152 of 231)
Exactly, Ozy! And thanks for the reminder of the Fat Lady. I'd forgotten HER!

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Bungy the Budgie - Aug 15, 2004 5:36 pm (#153 of 231)
I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned already but do you think it's just coincidence that there is a definite emphasis on the colours purple and green? This may only apply to the first book, and i saw an interview where J.K said colours were very signifigant, i have no idea if this relates to the afore mentioned colours or something entirely different

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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 11:13 pm (#154 of 231)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Purple and Green, the colors of Wimbledon.

Purple is often the color associated with royalty but in OoP there were instances wherein something bad happens to people who came into contact with something purple -- in Harry's dream, he saved Ron from being stranggled by purple robes, and of course, Hermione was attacked by Dolohov's spell which looked something like a purple flame. So maybe in Potterverse, purple comes to signify something deadly.

As for the color green, it is associated with Slytherin, Harry's (and Lily's) eyes, and Avada Kedavra. It is interesting to note in JKR's Edinburgh transcript that she mentioned the AK spell's original purpose (for healing) and how she changed it to be the Killing Curse. Could it be a color for tranformation -- good to bad, bad to good? Lupin always said that Lily had the ability to find good in people even if they themselves don't see it. Just a thought! Cheers!

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Solitaire - Aug 15, 2004 11:25 pm (#155 of 231)
Yes, Quirrel wore a purple turban, and we ALL know how that turned out! As for Lily's "startlingly green eyes," I am beginning to wonder about those eyes ... whether there might be something more to them than, um, meets the eye--especially with the talk on the alchemy thread about the emerald tablet.

I wish Harry would ask Petunia about his mother's eyes--whether they'd always been THAT startlingly green. I have begun to think there may have been something magical about her eyes, and I wonder whether they might not have been magically "transferred" to Harry at the time she died, rather like the ruby slippers were magically put onto Dorothy's feet after the Witch of the West died. Does this make sense?

Solitaire

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Archangel - Aug 16, 2004 12:35 am (#156 of 231)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Yep, makes sense to me Solitaire. Too bad there's no mention of the color of Petunia's eyes or how she detests Harry because he reminds her of her sister whenever she looks at him. Just a question, has Petunia ever directly looked into Harry's eyes whenever she speaks to him? Maybe she's afraid of what she'll see inside of her when she looks directly at those eyes because she knows she would have to change and people do not always welcome changes.

I truly think that the color green signifies transformation or change in HP.

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Solitaire - Aug 16, 2004 9:08 am (#157 of 231)
Oh, VERY interesting, Archangel. I would like to know that, too. I just think that with all of the references to Lily's eyes, there has to be something more there than just family resemblance. The whole idea of transformation, or rebirth ... I have a funny hunch about Harry's eyes and whether they might not hold some key to what ultimately happens with him--and Voldemort.

Solitaire

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Ann - Aug 16, 2004 1:36 pm (#158 of 231)
Interesting idea, that Harry literally has Lily's green eyes. But wouldn't that mean that he wouldn't need glasses? Actually, do we know that Lily didn't wear glasses? They are never mentioned. And we always assume that James wore glasses, since everyone says Harry looks "just like" him. (At least, most of the pictures I've seen give him glasses, although it may be significant that in the portrait of the Marauders that JKR likes so much, she makes a point of saying that Lupin and Sirius are the best likenesses, and nothing about James, who is shown with glasses.) This is all a bit odd, since it is something that Harry must know quite well, but we haven't been told. The whole eyes thing probably needs a separate thread: it's not just the color, but the shape, and there is the question of whether Harry's nearsightedness is going to be an important weakness, and the connection with resisting legilimancy and the imperius curse....

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Solitaire - Aug 16, 2004 2:22 pm (#159 of 231)
The glasses do cast a doubt on that idea, I suppose. It would be interesting to know how long he has needed glasses, wouldn't it? Since we have known him, he has worn the same ones ... with a few reparo! spells cast along the way when he has broken them. My prescription changes every few years.

If Harry does indeed have Lily's actual eyes and they are potentially magical, perhaps the glasses are some sort of protective device. Could his eyes have been enchanted at some point so that the eyesight SEEMS to be bad, forcing him to wear glasses? After all, I doubt any kid would wear glasses if he didn't have to. I certainly would not. I wear them ONLY because I am nearly blind without them, I can no longer wear contacts due to an accident, and lasik is not an option for me at this time.

Dumbledore and McGonagall both wear specs, and so did James, so perhaps eyesight is simply something that cannot be magically corrected. Or maybe their glasses have some magical qualities. Sorry to ramble, just speculating ...

Solitaire

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 16, 2004 2:29 pm (#160 of 231)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
On the meaning of colour, not meaning to change the subject, but any speculations here?

"(He) looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp."

Sounds mighty lionish, er, Gryffindorish to me.

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LooneyLuna - Aug 18, 2004 7:04 am (#161 of 231)
10 pts TwinklingBlueEyes!

Loping gait, tawny mane, yellowish eyes? Does he have courage?

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Solitaire - Aug 18, 2004 11:17 am (#162 of 231)
Are we talking about a contemporary character (like the new DADA teacher) or one long since gone who was observed in a Pensieve or photograph somewhere? Is it being suggested that Godrick Gryffindor has come back to life? The Sorcerer's Stone had apparently not been invented when he was alive, so would this even be possible? Just asking ...

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Padfoot - Aug 18, 2004 11:29 am (#163 of 231)
I think this person will be the new DADA teacher, unless he is the HbP. Of course he could be both, but I doubt it.

The yellowish eyes disturb me though. What does yellow symbolize in Jo's books?

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DJ Evans - Aug 18, 2004 12:08 pm (#164 of 231)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
"....There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp."

Hmmmm, I just noticed -- doesn't that also sound a bit like it could be describing a Centaur? I'm not sure about the eye color though -- not sure if any of them have a color of eyes other than brown or not.

But a Centaur's hair could be considered a mane, they would have eyebrows on their human face, along with a loping grace (I especially associate a loping grace with a horse) and due to some previous injury he could have a slight limp.

Crazy or feasible? hmmmmm Oh well, just thought I'd share!!!

Later, Deb

EDIT: Just notice that Haymoni over on the "New Clue, Who?" thread suggested the same thing. Oooops!! Well, at least I know I'm not alone in seeing a Centaur in the description!!

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Solitaire - Aug 18, 2004 11:14 pm (#165 of 231)
Madam Hooch, the flying instructor, is described as having "yellow eyes like a hawk" in PS/SS (Chapter 9, p. 180, US ed.). Mugglenet says that Hufflepuff's colors were yellow and black. Here is a link to a Mugglenet essay on The Significance of House Colors at Hogwarts.

Solitaire

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Some Guy - Aug 20, 2004 12:05 am (#166 of 231)
I don't know if this will hold up, but I remember hearing that elves come from Celtic mythology. It could be possible that Lily and Harry have some elf blood in them based purely on the color of Doby's eyes. After all, Harry can do SOME magic with out a wand. I am skeptical however. Winky has brown eyes.

(This doesn't really pertain to European history, but it is still cool)

In China the "elite" class used silver chop-sticks to "protect"

themselves against poisoned food. Needless to say many Emperors died because of this. Perhaps the silver in Voldemort's shield protects him from unforgivable curses?

Note: Red and gold sparks come out of Harry's wand twice. Once in the first book and then again in OoTP.

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Solitaire - Aug 20, 2004 1:25 pm (#167 of 231)
I reread part of Chambers last night, and I noticed the wall down into the Chamber, which had the two stone serpents with eyes like glinting emeralds. They sounded like Harry and Lily's eyes. Spooky!

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Some Guy - Aug 21, 2004 1:30 am (#168 of 231)
I know this is weak:

As we know, gold is much more valuable then silver. With that in mind, take this into consideration:

1) One Gryyfindor house color = gold

1) LV = Silver shield, One Slytherin house color = silver

Conclusion: Gryyfindor was more powerful then Salazar. Harry is more powerful then Voldemort
Cringe*

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azi - Aug 21, 2004 8:44 am (#169 of 231)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I think someone mentioned that before Some Guy. They also said how Ravenclaw = bronze (less powerful than gold and silver?). Like in the Olympics. Hufflepuff therefore would be the least powerful group since their colours are yellow and black which don't rank.

Anyway, I don't personally agree with it as I see Gryffindor and Slytherin as being on a pretty equal ranking. Plus, Harry isn't *yet* powerful enough to defeat Voldie. Although he may be some day...Does it depend on Harry being the heir of Gryffindor as to whether the theory would work? Ok I've confused myself, I'll stop.

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popkin - Sep 15, 2004 7:59 am (#170 of 231)
mother
Edited by Sep 15, 2004 8:01 am
This was such an interesting thread; I'm going to post something in the hopes that it picks up again. My post is not all that well thought out, but maybe some of you genius color analysts can run with it.

Someone on the Snape thread suggested that he might wear black all the time because he is a widower. It got me to wondering if the color black in the series is associated with untimely death. Sirius’ name is "black", he had black hair, and his animagus was a black dog - and he died an early death. But, Cedric died very young and had none of those black associations (that I can remember).

Which characters or creatures are most associated with black?

• Sirius Black, his animagus (mistaken for a “grim”), and his family (all of whom are dead)
• Thestrals (you must have seen death to see them)
• Harry (black hair, marked by the untimely death of his parents, prophecy seems to suggest he must kill or be killed by Voldemort)
• Tom Riddle (black hair, as a teen killed his father and grandparents, mother died when he was born)
• Hagrid (bushy black hair, beetle black eyes - His father died when Hagrid was quite young, but we don't know if his father was young at the time.)


Which characters or creatures are most associated with death?

• Death Eaters
• Thestrals
• Dementors (rotted, and decaying like death)
• Lord Voldemort (head of the Death Eaters, rebirthed in a graveyard)
• Quirrell (purple turban hides Voldemort on the back of his head – why purple?)
• Cedric Diggory (What colors are tied to him?)
• Sirius Black
• Students who can see Thestrals – Neville, Luna, Harry, Theodore Nott (is that right?)


Well, I don’t know any more than I did when I first had this idea.

Help?

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Padfoot - Sep 16, 2004 10:30 am (#171 of 231)
Edited by Sep 16, 2004 10:31 am
Cedric doesn't seem to fit the "black" pattern. I keep thinking about how unexpected and pointless his death was. His killer didn't even care to find out his name, he was just the spare. Cedric was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. While the others who have died who do fit this theory have all gone out looking for trouble or at least been aware of its presence.

As far as why a purple turban, I think purple symbolizes royalty. He was given this turban as a gift from a prince, so the color might not mean anything in addition to that. "His turban, he told them, had been given to him by an African prince as a thank-you ..."

It is an interesting theory though. I will definitely be looking for "black" clues in HbP.

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popkin - Sep 16, 2004 10:34 am (#172 of 231)
mother
Edited by Sep 16, 2004 10:35 am
Didn't Quirrell start wearing the turban when Voldemort decided to take up residence in the back of his head? It seems that it must be significant that he hides Voldemort under a purple, princely thank-you gift. Do you suppose it was given to him by Voldemort? I don't know why he would describe Voldemort as an African prince, though.

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haymoni - Sep 16, 2004 11:14 am (#173 of 231)
Where's Round Pink Spider?

Isn't she the color-commentator?

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Round Pink Spider - Sep 17, 2004 10:05 am (#174 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Somebody rub my lamp? :-D

(Sometimes I feel like a genie in relation to this thread...I almost never visit, but when I do, I usually discover someone has just mentioned my name.)

OK, black. According to the references my daughter and I have found in HP, generally black is connected with the enemy. But Popkin may be correct in that black may actually be connected more with death (they are "Death Eaters," after all) -- the black thestrals are a good observation (Thanks, popkin! I'll have to mention that in a coming newsletter.)

But JKR doesn't use the same hints all the time to mean the same thing. I know of some "death hints" in the text around Cedric, but they weren't very obvious. The only potential color-related hint I can think of was that Cedric, Captain of the Hufflepuff team, was playing in yellow, a color that seems to be connected to mortal danger. But that might have been directed at Harry, who fell off his broom in that game because of the dementors.

Padfoot, purple seems to be connected more to authority in general than to royalty. Dumbledore has worn purple, Arthur Weasley and the Ministry of Magic use purple paper, and Bagman showed up at one point in purple robes with yellow stars. I would speculate that the purple turban represented Voldemort's hiding behind Quirrel's authority as a professor.

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Magical Llama - Sep 19, 2004 1:06 am (#175 of 231)
Prior to GoF, Hufflepuff was the duffer house. I believe that Cedric Digorry was used as the school champion to give Hufflepuff more personality and show the reader that wizards from Hufflepuff are just as competent as wizards from the other houses. The house colors of Hufflepuff just happen to be yellow and black.

The word count in all 5 HP novels is close to a million words. Some similarities are going to occur that do not necessarily mean anything.

Have you had any new thoughts about "Doby's sock gift", Spider? I remember you suggesting the socks represent Neville and Harry's relationship.

I believe that the green sock represents Voldemort and the red sock represents Harry. The socks are worn on two separate feet but they share the same body.

There are many instance where Harry and Voldemort share the same body.

Harry and Voldemort fuse into that "horrible" creature at the end of OoP.
When Voldemort attacks Aurthor Weasley in the Department of Mysterious, Harry "becomes" the snake and feels what Voldemort feels.
Harry and Voldemort can sense each other's emotions

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Round Pink Spider - Sep 19, 2004 5:50 am (#176 of 231)
Crazed Writer
I'm not going to convince YOU, am I Magical Llama? :-D That's OK!

I really don't have anything to add to what I put on "Long Theory." I do agree that, in the case of the socks, the red represents Gryffindor and the green represents Slytherin. So we have agreement on that. And I do agree that Harry and Voldemort are connected.

Now here's my challenge for you: if you believe the green sock represents Voldemort, can you explain why it has Snitches on it? Harry is the Seeker. Voldemort is a Chaser! (Marcus Flint, captain of the Slytherin team, represents Voldemort in the Quidditch games.)

If you want to continue this debate, maybe we should take it back to "Long Theory," since we've already addressed the color part of it.

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Solitaire - Sep 19, 2004 9:46 am (#177 of 231)
But isn't Voldemort "seeking" immortality?

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Cuivienen - Sep 19, 2004 12:37 pm (#178 of 231)
One more thing on Cedric Diggory and black -- Hufflepuff's colors are yellow and black, and he the "champion" of Hufflepuff House. Does this perhaps indicate many more pointless deaths in Hufflepuff House during the next two books?

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Round Pink Spider - Sep 19, 2004 2:05 pm (#179 of 231)
Crazed Writer
You could be right, Cuivienen. But we won't know until HBP.

Solitaire, excellent observation! But Voldemort has had to set aside "Seeking" immortality right now to get rid of Harry, so right now he's playing "Chaser." Chasers are the ones who pursue the opponent team's secrets, which are defended by the (secret) Keeper.

If anyone wants to pursue the Quidditch thing, we could take it over to the "Quidditch" thread, which has been languishing for a while.

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Madame Librarian - Sep 19, 2004 2:34 pm (#180 of 231)
Curious observation: Hufflepuff's colors are yellow and black, and what comes to mind almost immediately is a bumblebee. Now who does that make me think of?

Possible?

Ciao. Barb

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Cuivienen - Sep 19, 2004 4:40 pm (#181 of 231)
Dumbledore, a Hufflepuff? It seems unlikely. Probably just a coincidental association.

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Steve Newton - Sep 19, 2004 5:45 pm (#182 of 231)
Librarian
From one of my posts on the Dumbledore thread:

"GOF, chapter 24, page 455, American hardcover edition:

"...trusts people he does. Gives 'em second chances..tha's what set him apar' from other heads, see. He'll accept anyone at Hogwarts, s'long as they've got the talent."

Sounds like Hufflepuff to me."

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Round Pink Spider - Sep 19, 2004 5:46 pm (#183 of 231)
Crazed Writer
No, Dumbledore was a Gryffindor, they mentioned it in book 1. I know "dumbledore" was an old word for "bumblebee". Or perhaps Madame was thinking of Bagman, the Wimborne Wasp beater? We saw him in yellow and black (how appropriate...).

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Ozymandias - Sep 19, 2004 5:54 pm (#184 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
Actually, we're not sure that DD is a Gryffindor. Hermione says that she had heard she was a Gryffindor, (my book is on loan so I can't give the exact quote) but she's not sure, and we've never gotten confirmation from anyone else. I think DD has qualities of all four houses, and I'm very interested to find out what house he's in. Hufflepuff is as valid a guess as any other, more so given Mme. Librarian's color association.

Speaking of which, I'm working on a list of which colors are most strongly associated with each character. I'm almost done, I just need to skim through GoF again. Coming soon...

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Magical Llama - Sep 19, 2004 6:22 pm (#185 of 231)
That is an excellent observation Solitare! Thanks

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Solitaire - Sep 19, 2004 9:10 pm (#186 of 231)
Thank you, Magical Llama. I had to go back and see what I had observed! LOL

Ozy, I looked in the Lexicon, and the detailed info about Dumbledore says he was sorted into Gryffindor c. 1851. As far as I understand, Lexicon info is usually either confirmed in the books or has been confirmed by JKR in one of her chats or Q&A sessions. Someone please correct me if I am in error here ... I may have misunderstood.

Solitaire

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Ozymandias - Sep 19, 2004 11:31 pm (#187 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
Hmm, I'm not sure, Solitaire. I had forgotten that the Lexicon had that information as fact, so thanks for the reminder. However...

The citation it gives is SS6, which I believe is the quote from Hermione I referenced earlier. So yes, this is in the books, but I'm highly suspiscious of taking a character's uncorroborated word for something. Where did Hermione hear this? Was her source reliable? We don't know.

Or perhaps I'm just totally paranoid.

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Round Pink Spider - Sep 20, 2004 4:58 am (#188 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Although I agree with you, Ozy, about taking a character's word for it, JKR admitted herself (in an interview on one of the movie DVDs) that she uses both DD and Hermione to give background information, DD because he knows just about everything, and Hermione because one can always assume she read it somewhere. So if Hermione said it, that means that it's probably true (taken with a grain of salt).

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Chris. - Sep 20, 2004 5:08 am (#189 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think it all depends on Hemrione's source, more than anything.

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LooneyLuna - Sep 20, 2004 6:29 am (#190 of 231)
It would make sense that Dumbledore was a Gryffindor because of Fawkes. Maybe Dumbledore was another difficult placement for the sorting hat because he exemplified the many traits of the different houses (you know, like Harry).

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Solitaire - Sep 20, 2004 7:41 pm (#191 of 231)
All good points. As LooneyLuna says, I can see Dumbledore being another difficult one to place, given his broad array of talents and his character. Then again ... perhaps he IS the person he is today because of the house into which he was sorted.

Consider Hermione. Would she be in the same place today--as far as her character development and experiences--if she'd been sorted into Ravenclaw? Think about it ... She would have had different friends and classmates, and her experiences would have been completely different, I'm betting. No detentions in the Forbidden Forest with Harry and Ron, probably no journey through the Trap Door. She may not have wound up being petrified, since she would not have been so involved with the principal character who would have kept her so close to that situation. She most likely wouldn't have had a hand in saving Sirius; indeed, that entire scenario might have ended differently, had it not been for Hermione and the Time Turner. There may not have been a D.A. formed, and she probably would not have felt the need to make a wild trip to the DoM in an attempt to save Sirius (of course, he may not have been alive to need saving, anyway).

The truth is that Hermoine has played a HUGE role in Harry's adventures at Hogwarts. Things there might have been very different today had Hermione been sorted into Ravenclaw. Or am I the only one who thinks this?

BTW, if Hermione read about DD being a Gryffindor, she probably read it in Hogwarts: A History. At the end of book 7, I bet we will probably find out that she is the only student ever to attend Hogwarts who has read the entire book from "kiver-to-kiver." LOL

Solitaire

Edit: If anyone thinks this belongs on the Hermione thread instead of here, please feel free to move it. It is just that all of the Hermione stuff sort of flowed out of the comment about DD's sorting.

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Padfoot - Oct 17, 2004 6:50 pm (#192 of 231)
I am compiling some information to write an essay on how JKR uses color in her books. If anyone has any useful web sites they think I should visit regarding color meanings, please let me know. Thanks.

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Round Pink Spider - Oct 18, 2004 2:15 pm (#193 of 231)
Crazed Writer
Padfoot, I've sent you an e-mail, to which you can reply if you want.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 20, 2004 10:23 am (#194 of 231)
No day but Today
On Cedric's connections to the color black...Doesn't he have black hair?

Also, I think it was mentioned on the eyes thread, but Cedric and Sirius both had gray eyes. They are the only two major characters who have died. The only other characters mentioned with gray eyes are Lucius and Draco. Anybody think they're next on deaths list?

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Padfoot - Oct 23, 2004 9:36 pm (#195 of 231)
I think Lucius will certainly die, but am not sure about Draco just yet.

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Ozymandias - Oct 24, 2004 3:56 pm (#196 of 231)
Nothing beside remains...
Ollivander also has grey or silvery eyes, I believe. Think he's going to kick the bucket?

What color are Luna's eyes? I seem to remember them being grey too. EDIT: I checked the Lexicon, and no color is given. Still, I got a very strong impression that they are pale.

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Ann - Oct 25, 2004 9:01 am (#197 of 231)
So everyone with gray eyes is going to die? That doesn't sound much like JKR--it's way too patterned and arbitrary. Could we possibly be grasping at straws a bit here?

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 31, 2004 11:31 am (#198 of 231)
No day but Today
Possibly. I was just pointing out a connection. It could be nothing.

Ozy, Luna and Olivander both have silver eyes, which is different from gray, so if that theory has any merit I think they are safe.

By the way, the door to JKR's site is open again.

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hells456 - Nov 1, 2004 9:23 am (#199 of 231)
Hi, there's some very interesting stuff on this thread.

There is one thing that I don't think has been mentioned, which is that the colour green has always been associated with being naive, innocent and unknowing. ie, "my new assisstant is a bit green, where did he come from?".

I don't see how this could be applied to the Slytherins, but Harry who wears a lot of green clothes, could definitely be described as green.

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Madame Librarian - Nov 1, 2004 9:38 am (#200 of 231)
Is JKR pulling a cute one here--the color green throughout the books is just the biggest red herring?

Mostly kidding there, but seriously, maybe we're supposed to understand the concept of nothing is 100% one way or the other, and that applies to good and evil, the meaning of symbols, the names of characters and so on. Is Madame Author saying, "Stay alert, don't assume, think about it before you jump to a conclusion, and yes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

Ciao. Barb

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Annika - Nov 5, 2004 12:49 pm (#201 of 231)
I was thinking about the color pink and how it relates to secrets. I wonder if Tonk's "bubble gum pink" hair says something about what secret she is concealing. Perhaps she knows something about the Longbottoms illness? I know it is a stetch, but the bubble gum wrapper is so perplexing to me, and the use of the term "bubble gum pink" seems too coincidental.

Annika

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Solitaire - Nov 6, 2004 11:46 am (#202 of 231)
Interesting connection, Annika.

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mindy blue - Nov 6, 2004 5:10 pm (#203 of 231)
I found an interesting website that lists the meanings of colors from all over the world.

Click Here

There's a few interesting things on there, like where the term "Blackshirts" comes from. Doesn't have anything to do with Harry Potter, but does have significance if you're a Cornhusker fan! Also interesting are the examples for yellow. I thought it was a happy color! I think I saw a theory on here about yellow meaning mortal peril... Very interesting site, check it out!

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Padfoot - Nov 6, 2004 5:47 pm (#204 of 231)
Thanks Mindy for that really interesting link about color meanings.

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mindy blue - Nov 8, 2004 12:32 am (#205 of 231)
Not a problem. It started with the whole thing about crookshanks and Mundungus Fletcher being described the same way, GINGER and bandy legged, and Phoenix Song's reply post, and a post by Round Pink Spider i think (If not, sorry to the real poster) about how yellow supposedly means "mortal peril"... and I thought it was weird that anyone could connect yellow to mortal peril... but now it doesn't seem so weird, so I thought I'd share what I had found, just in case anyone else thought it was weird too.

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Steve Newton - Nov 9, 2004 2:23 pm (#206 of 231)
Librarian
In chapter 6 (I think) of COS I read this. "Everyone tried to seize a pair that wasn't pink and fluffy." These are the earmuffs used in Herbology. Prof. Sprout ends up with them. Pink and fluffy sounds an awful lot like the imagery around Prof. Umbridge. Should we be keeping an eye on Sprout? Would she have given Neville good information about the Mimbulus mimbletonia?

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Annika - Nov 9, 2004 2:33 pm (#207 of 231)
Steve, I started to type a response to our idea, but have deleted three so far. Here is the shortened versions of my mini-theories on the earmuffs. Great catch by the way!

• Since the fluffy pink earmuffs were covering her ears, maybe someone was keeping a secret from her (she couldn't hear the secret)

• It could have had to do with the Mandrake Potion/Basilisk. Not that she had a secret, but the scene contained a secret, the mandrakes, whom she was protecting their ears from, were the secret to reanimating the petrified.

Third one was apparently not very good, because I no longer remember what it was. Annika

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Steve Newton - Nov 9, 2004 2:49 pm (#208 of 231)
Librarian
All good ideas, even the one you forgot. I was wondering if Sprout had a secret since the earmuffs were on her head. But, following Round Pink Spider's idea that the eye color shows what the eye can see, this may mean that Sprout is able to hear secrets. Does this make any sense. I have been rambling all day.

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Solitaire - Nov 15, 2004 8:22 am (#209 of 231)
I hadn't thought about the Mandrake/Basilisk thing. The unmuffled cry of the mandrake is fatal. The direct stare into the eyes of the basilisk is fatal.

Could we be receiving a message not to necessarily trust what we see and hear?

Edit: Harry certainly saw and heard plenty when he entered Tom's diary ... but it was all a lie, wasn't it? I could probably think of more instances if I had time, but I must go to work. Hopefully someone else will have found them by the time I return late tonight.

Solitaire

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freshwater - Nov 15, 2004 5:19 pm (#210 of 231)
Connections, speculation, discussion: the best part of HP reading! Check out the on-going HP Lex Forum series re-read! Currently reading GoF...
Excellent point, Solitaire! Take 25 points for your house!

Ginny also "saw" and "heard" much from Tom that she should not credit or rely upon. And, of course, later in the series there's all that terrible "yellow press" that Harry and Hermione suffer. Tom was good looking, personable and smooth...but appearances were extremely disceiving.

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Steve Newton - Nov 22, 2004 2:44 pm (#211 of 231)
Librarian
Am I the last one to notice that dragon's blood is green? (OOTP Grawp chapter.)

Green is turning up everywhere, Lily and Harry's eyes, AK curse, Slytherin colors, Rons failed curses in COS.

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Ydnam96 - Nov 22, 2004 11:10 pm (#212 of 231)
No you are not the last one, as I didn't ever notice that. It is interesting! Hmmmm...green blood. I wonder if it is important what those 12 uses are?

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Ann - Nov 27, 2004 8:05 am (#213 of 231)
JKR said in an interview somewhere that the twelfth use of dragon's blood was as oven cleaner. But perhaps the other eleven are less trivial!

There are lots of green things, but there are also lots of red, yellow, blue, and purple things. JKR uses color a lot. The point, I think, is not to figure out which color predominates, but to group things of the same colors together and see what sort of pattern that suggests.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 12, 2004 10:22 pm (#214 of 231)
When I hear of the varities of colors mentioned I am reminded of the rainbow that is cast when a white light is focused through a prism. The rainbow that is cast when a white light is focused through a prism. Each color and shade of said color represents a variation. It should also be noted that within the spectrum of color cast by the White light through the prism there are 7 Colors created

Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet. I have often wondered whether each of these seven colors represents one of the seven books of the series. I also wonder if the colors are as metaphor for understanding of those who are different.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 13, 2004 10:27 am (#215 of 231)
No day but Today
Well Nathan, thats an interesting idea. If you think of what each of those colors stand for traditionally I can see GoF and OoP as being orange and red. Orange for GoF because of the death of Cedric, and the fact that orange is the color of fire. Red for OoP because red is associated with blood and death and Sirius died in the fifth book. Red is more intense than orange and Sirius' death was worse than Cedrics to Harry. With that said, HBP could be the color purple because it deals with royalty and the color for royalty is usually purple.

Also, if you keep them in thier spectrum order (red,orange,yellow,green,blue,indigo,violet), Indigo, which is a sort of blueish-purple is the sixth color, maybe another reason that HBP could be purple.

Wow. That was a lot of rambling about nothing important. So sorry. Feel free to ignore.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 13, 2004 10:34 am (#216 of 231)
Matilda Jones, I think those ideas have potential. The only reason I developed the thought is because you look at the hardcover American editions the bindings and jackets have become darker as the series has progressed.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 13, 2004 10:37 am (#217 of 231)
No day but Today
Yes. Thats true. The jacket cover of GOF has alot of orange and green, although the actuall book itself is red and black. The jacket of OOP is almost entirely dark blue, and the actuall book is blue and gray.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 13, 2004 1:52 pm (#218 of 231)
Also it is intersting that Harry and Lily's eyes are Green because in the rainbow, the color Green is the central color with three colors red, orange, and yellow before it, and blue indigo and violet come after green.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 14, 2004 12:39 pm (#219 of 231)
This site may be of interest because it says that violet light is the least discernable by the human eye.

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This idea for me harkened back to the dialogue between Dumbledore and Voldemort in the MoM at the end of OotP.

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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 15, 2004 1:45 pm (#220 of 231)
No day but Today
I just remembered something, forgive me if it has been mentioned before. I just discovered more proof that the color pink represents consealment or secrets. The Fat Lady's dress is pink, and she is consealing the entrace to Gryffindor Tower.

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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 22, 2004 9:37 pm (#221 of 231)
Didn't Pansy wear a pink dress robe to the yule ball?What is she hiding?I know alot of Harry and Pansy shippers who would love to think it was her love for Harry that she's hiding.

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Marie E. - Dec 22, 2004 10:10 pm (#222 of 231)
Hermione's dress was pink as well, wasn't it? Or was it blue? Well, somebody else wore pink.

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Julia. - Dec 22, 2004 11:52 pm (#223 of 231)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Don't worry Marie and Madame Pomfrey, we'll get this sorted out.

Ah, here we go...
Parvati was waiting for Harry at the foot of the stairs. She looked very pretty indeed, in robes of shocking pink. (GoF, Ch 23, Pg 412, US)
Also...
Pansy Parkinson in very frilly robes of pale pink was clutching Malfoy's arm. (GoF, ch 23, pg 413)
And lastly...
Krum was...accompanied by a pretty girl in blue robes...She was wearing robes made of a floaty, periwinkle-blue material. (GoF, Ch 23, Pg 413-414, US)

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Prefect Marcus - Dec 23, 2004 12:20 am (#224 of 231)
"Anyone can cook"
Madame Pomfrey - Didn't Pansy wear a pink dress robe to the yule ball?What is she hiding?I know alot of Harry and Pansy shippers who would love to think it was her love for Harry that she's hiding.

Actually, Most H/P 'shippers think that there is little to no love lost between them...at the present time. That is one of the attractions of the theory, that the two of them will grow together. It isn't love at first sight. A few have suggested that she might be jealous of Cho and Hermione, but that is about it.

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Steve Newton - Dec 23, 2004 6:58 am (#225 of 231)
Librarian
Periwinkle is sort of a bright blue, right?

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scoop2172000 - Dec 23, 2004 9:40 am (#226 of 231)
No, Steve, periwinkle is a medium-light blue, sorta a dusty blue or a lilac-like blue.

A color Lockhart would be fond of, by the way.

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Steve Newton - Dec 23, 2004 9:52 am (#227 of 231)
Librarian
Thanks, Scoop.

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Julia. - Dec 23, 2004 11:06 am (#228 of 231)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Yes indeed Steve, periwinkle is a medium-light blue.

This is me and my friend Sam at my Prom. My dress is periwinkle.

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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 23, 2004 11:40 am (#229 of 231)
Thanks Marcus.I never knew why people thought that Harry and Pansy might ship.That now makes sense to me.I have seen couples that totally dislike each other at first and end up dating.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 27, 2004 2:58 pm (#230 of 231)
When Scholastic announced the release date for HBP the announcement was on a purple background with gold lettering and numbering. I wonder if the jacket for HBP will contain purple, indigo and perhaps a touch of violet.

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Chris. - Dec 28, 2004 4:21 am (#231 of 231)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Well, purple is the colour of royalty, so it's only fitting that it's on the cover of HbP.

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