Mirrors

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Mirrors

Post  Potteraholic on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:36 am

This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing, which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. It was copied/saved by Lady Arabella and reformatted/reposted by Potteraholic. ~Potteraholic


Casey - Jun 24, 2004 6:26 am
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 1:54 pm

Mirrors have their own magical purposes in the wizarding world, so I decided to start this thread. I've always found JKR's use of mirrors to be incredibly interesting. What does everyone else think?
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Mirrors (posts #1 to #50)

Post  Potteraholic on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:39 am

Neldoreth - Jun 24, 2004 5:33 am (#1 of 249)
Edited Jun 24, 2004 6:34 am

indeed, if I try to list them, I lose count:

- the Erised-Mirror

- the mirror that Sirius gives to Harry in OoP (very sadly never used, I hope Harry will find the other part and will get to use it with Ron or someone else... perhaps Sirius was not wearing it in his pocket when he went to the MoM...)

- I remember the Mirror from The Leaky Cauldron, answering to Harry in PoA when he affirms he's not going to die (what was the answer again? I'm at work, so I sadly don’t have the book at hand, must wait this evening when I come home...)

- isn’t there somewhere a mirror shouting at Harry to keep his hair in order??

any others?




DJ Evans - Jun 24, 2004 7:05 am (#2 of 249)

I don't know if this fits here or not, but I've always wondered if there wasn't a mirror(s) at the Dursleys' that enabled DD to keep an eye out on Harry all of these years and even now really. In the very first book/chapter when they are trying to get the Hogwarts letter to Harry, each one was addressed to where Harry's bedroom was. Such as "The Cupboard Under the Stairs" and then just as soon as Vernon moved Harry up to Dudley's spare room, the next envelopes were addressed to "The Smallest Bedroom". For a while I thought it might be a portrait, but then I couldn't very well see a portrait person standing/sitting still in the same position all of those years like that. But a mirror would work very nicely. I think a mirror is a very feasible means of "keeping an eye" out on Harry.

Later days, Deb




popkin - Jun 24, 2004 7:07 am (#3 of 249)

The mirror in Hermione's hand when she looks around the corner for the Basilisk. (COS)

Moody/Crouch's foe glass - is it the same one they use in the Room of Requirement during DA meetings? (GOF, OotP)

The mirror Harry looks in and sees Voldemort's face looking back at him - in the "dream" with Rookwood and Voldemort (OotP)

In an attempt to attract Lockhart's attention, one of the girls is curling her eyelashes on her wand and checking the effect in the back of a spoon. I don't remember who that was. (COS)




haymoni - Jun 24, 2004 7:12 am (#4 of 249)

I think the messed up hair mirror was at the Burrow.




Round Pink Spider - Jun 24, 2004 7:18 am (#5 of 249)

Neldoreth, neat name. That's from the Silmarillion, isn't it?

Don't forget the Foe Glasses!

JKR has said that wizards have something better than the Internet for finding out information. I'm betting on it being magic mirrors, because she gets a lot of her stuff about magic out of legends and fairy stories. I think maybe the Order could use pocket mirrors to communicate (Sirius or James could have contributed this idea), and that Harry might get one of these in 6th year to help keep him safe. He might also mend Sirius' mirror.

Watch out for spotted or cracked mirrors, though. JKR seems to use cracks or spots in mirrors to say that there's some deception. A couple of examples: Harry saw himself as Goyle in a spotted mirror in Myrtle's bathroom; Harry saw himself as Voldemort in a cracked AND spotted mirror in Voldemort's "throne room" in OotP.




Star Crossed - Jun 24, 2004 7:21 am (#6 of 249)

Great observation! I never noticed the crackedness. Ooooh. Harry cracked Sirius' mirror. That doesn't sound good.




Casey - Jun 24, 2004 10:37 am (#7 of 249)

"I don't know if this fits here or not, but I've always wondered if there wasn't a mirror(s) at the Dursleys' that enabled DD to keep an eye out on Harry all of these years and even now really."

That's a good idea. I had never thought about that before. It's amazing the things you think of about JKR's writing after visiting this board.




Padfoot - Jun 24, 2004 10:56 am (#8 of 249)

Here you go Neldoreth, "I'm not going to be murdered," Harry said out loud. "That's the spirit, dear," said his mirror sleepily.

That is one of my favorite quotes. I can't help but laugh each time I read that line.




Neldoreth - Jun 24, 2004 11:18 am (#9 of 249)

ah thank you Padfoot: I just came home ten minutes ago and was going to grab my book but I got the answer directly! I love this quote too!




Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 25, 2004 8:14 am (#10 of 249)

I just love magic mirrors. From the one in Sleeping Beauty to Terry Pratchett's "Witches Abroad" they're great.

Could magic mirrors be how the Order of the Phoenix talked. I think this has come up on another thread, but could this be why Sirius told Harry not to let Molly know when he gave one to Harry in order of the Phoenix?




The Grey Lady - Jun 25, 2004 11:28 am (#11 of 249)

Does the Foe Glass count? It's described as a cracked mirror.




Round Pink Spider - Jun 25, 2004 12:54 pm (#12 of 249)
Edited Jun 25, 2004 1:56 pm

Yes, the fact that the Foe Glass was cracked is decidedly worrisome. I believe that Crouch Jr. was not the real enemy, you see, and that a memory charm had been placed on him to make him cover up for someone else. That was why he was eliminated afterwards...(no, the Dementor didn't just make a mistake!)

Remember that, at the beginning of book 4, Voldemort said that Wormtail and the Faithful Servant had one more, quiet murder to perform. The person that was murdered has not yet been revealed as of book 5. It wasn't Crouch Sr., who was only murdered because he escaped.

Sorry, this is off-topic, but everything's so interconnected in Harry Potter!




Verschwinden Sie - Jun 25, 2004 1:28 pm (#13 of 249)
Edited Jun 25, 2004 2:28 pm

Okay, the Foe Glass being cracked is one of those details I filed under "not important" because I got the feeling it was broken by Moody's evil twin just like all the other dark detectors had to be broken by him in an attempt to keep them from alerting everyone to his presence.

As for the other mirrors, I don't think the mirror Sirius gave Harry is cracked. I'm pretty sure it was broken and is now laying in little pieces at the bottom of Harry's trunk. J.K. Rowling did hint pretty heavily it would be significant later he has those pieces, though, so we'll see what's up with that...

Oh, and the mirror at the Burrow screamed "Tuck your shirt in, scruffy!" at Harry. =)




Mellilot Flower. - Jun 25, 2004 1:48 pm (#14 of 249)

I would have thought that the foe glass cracked because it really belonged to moody, who was great friends with Dumbledore but who was Crouch Jr enemy... get my meaning at all? the mirror was confused and wasn't sure how to react to the situation it was put in...




Verschwinden Sie - Jun 25, 2004 1:53 pm (#15 of 249)

I suddenly had a thought. Who says the Foe Glass belonged to Moody in the first place? If you look at Order of the Phoenix, while describing the room where the DA held its practices, J.K. Rowling notes the Foe Glass is hanging there. If it belonged to Moody, wouldn't he have taken it back with the rest of his possessions?




Round Pink Spider - Jun 25, 2004 4:03 pm (#16 of 249)

I think this gets back to the question of where the Room of Requirement gets its stuff. Does it just borrow it from wherever? Does it have to be in the castle? Does it duplicate existing items? ...

We don't have the answer to those questions yet (unfortunately), so we're kind of stymied there. Until we know, it would be a bad idea to speculate about the Foe Glass in the RoR. But it does LOOK like the same one.




Verschwinden Sie - Jun 25, 2004 4:19 pm (#17 of 249)

Good thought.




Isabella S. - Jun 26, 2004 8:33 pm (#18 of 249)

Oooh! I love mirrors. Do you remember the bearded mirror in Narnia? The one that Lucy saw.

I know the film's not canon, but in PoA the mirror seemed to lead to the Room of Doom.




Round Pink Spider - Jun 27, 2004 6:18 am (#19 of 249)
Edited Jun 27, 2004 7:21 am

Yes, Isabella. I remember that mirror too.

Ah-hah! Somebody else noticed "the Rooooooom of Dooooooooom!" I wonder if THAT's going to be in the next book!

I thought the 'Room of Doom' was on the other side of the hall from the mirror, so that it was behind Harry. But you might be right. I'll have to really take a look at that. Would you maybe have to walk THROUGH the mirror? (Actually, it being behind him in the mirror COULD make the mirror the way in!) I wonder if maybe JKR asked them to put that in for those who were paying attention?

By the way, I've been wondering if Harry passing through a mirror was going to happen at some point, as in "Through the Looking Glass". That would not be the first time she's referenced Lewis Carroll. There is a parallel in the Pensieve; Harry's nose touched the image in the Pensieve (got to be careful where you put your nose in HP!), and he "got lost in DD's thoughts." Harry's nose ALMOST touched the Mirror of Erised in SS/PS. Wonder what would have happened if he had? Notice (from Harry's getting the Stone out of the Mirror) that things CAN pass into and out of the Mirror in a magical way.




haymoni - Jun 27, 2004 10:31 am (#20 of 249)

I never thought that Harry got the Stone out of the mirror.

I thought he saw his heart's desire - finding the stone - and then, due to Dumbledore's great idea, the stone appeared in his pocket.

I thought the Harry in the mirror would still have the stone that Harry saw in the mirror.

Well - it sounded right in my head!




S.E. Jones - Jun 28, 2004 9:54 am (#21 of 249)
Edited Jun 28, 2004 10:55 am

Well, since we're discussing mirrors, here's what JKR had to say about Sirius's mirrors on her site lately (under the FAQ section):

Q: Why did Harry have to forget the mirror he had been given by Sirius in Order of the Phoenix?

A: I can’t give a full answer to this, because it is relevant to books six and seven. However, the short answer is that Harry was determined never to use the mirror, as clearly stated in chapter 24: he knew he would never use whatever it was. For once in Harry’s life, he does not succumb to curiosity, he hides the mirror and the temptation away from himself, and then, when it might have been useful, he has forgotten it.

The mirror might not have helped as much as you think, but on the other hand will help more than you think. You’ll have to read the final books to understand that!

Anyone have any ideas for what the portion I underlined might mean?




popkin - Jun 29, 2004 6:07 am (#22 of 249)

I took it to mean that even if Harry had used the mirror Sirius would have done something reckless in OotP and gotten himself killed, and Harry will use the mirror again - but, this time it will come in very handy.




Catherine - Jun 29, 2004 9:14 am (#23 of 249)

From JKR's official site, about the mirror Sirius gives Harry: The mirror might not have helped as much as you think, but on the other hand will help more than you think.

I think she's still sleep-deprived! It seems as though she's talking out of both sides of the mirror at this point.

I really don't know what this means. It's even more cryptic than the prophecies, and that is saying something.

Her statement makes me wonder if she's been reading online threads (hopefully US here in the Forum!) about what we think the mirror can do. We've all speculated that perhaps Sirius can use it to communicate, even beyond the Veil--maybe she's saying "No, it’s not THAT helpful."

But, perhaps Harry will use a two-way mirror to communicate with members of the Order or use it to warn someone of danger, or save someone's life by using the mirror. In this way, it is really more "useful" than Harry having a chat with Sirius.

Deep sigh. I just don't know. Thoughts?




TGF - Jun 28, 2004 9:45 am (#24 of 249)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 29, 2004 4:14 pm

->I moved this post from the 'Predictions for books six and seven' thread.<- SE Jones

About the mirror... Rowling has updated her site with a question about it:

"Why did Harry have to forget the mirror he had been given by Sirius in 'Order of the Phoenix'?

I can’t give a full answer to this, because it is relevant to books six and seven. However, the short answer is that Harry was determined never to use the mirror, as is clearly stated in chapter 24: he knew he would never use whatever it was. For once in Harry’s life, he does not succumb to curiosity, he hides the mirror and the temptation away from himself, and then, when it might have been useful, he has forgotten it.

The mirror might not have helped as much as you think, but on the other hand, will help more than you think. You’ll have to read the final books to understand that!"

So, as I suspected, the mirror has some other purpose beyond simple communication. I interpret 'might not have helped as much as you think, but on the other hand, will help more than you think' to mean that this thing isn't as reliable as one may think in terms of communication, but has other functions which are essential.

It seems that whatever these functions are, considering that she seems to imply the mirror will be useful, they aren't affected by Harry smashing the thing. Maybe it won't be so hard to fix, or maybe it will be a hard, but Harry will discover its function and go about fixing it. But would anyone care to speculate as to what else the thing can do? I imagine it would be something that would invoke the name of Sirius...




S.E. Jones - Jun 28, 2004 10:25 am (#25 of 249)
Edited Jun 29, 2004 4:13 pm

->I moved this post from the 'Predictions for books six and seven' thread.<- SE Jones

I figured the 'might not have helped as much as you think' bit of the line (notice it is past tense) might have meant that it wouldn't have helped in finding out if Sirius was okay and thus wouldn't have prevented his death as we were all speculating. I also thought the 'but on the other hand, will help more than you think' part may mean that the mirror was indeed left behind and will thus be used in some way in the future (to help Harry heal by opening communication between Harry and Lupin?, at some other moment when Harry needs to communicate quickly with the other person holding the mirror?)....




Mellilot Flower. - Jun 29, 2004 5:23 pm (#26 of 249)

If anything I think that the mirror will help Harry to understand the relationship between Sirius and his father, and so to understand his father more.

I don't think it will ever be used for it's originally intended use again, i.e. communication between two living people. Also since I doubt Sirius was carrying the mirror when he passed through the veil I doubt it will be used to communicate with him. However the mirror must have "seen" a lot of what went on between James and Sirius, and we know that Mirrors can communicate what they see. And really, without her having to say anything on her site, it was obvious that the mirror would be useful later on- why else would she have introduced it??




The Wandless Wizard - Jul 4, 2004 4:29 am (#27 of 249)

I talked about this in the Book 6 title thread, since Sirius' mirror was brought up. I figured I should reiterate it here since it is more on-topic. When I read JKR's "wouldn't have helped but will" quote about Sirius' mirror, I thought it meant Sirius didn't have the mirror on him. My guess was Kreacher took Sirius mirror and hid it with his collection of family heirlooms. He didn't want a keepsake. He just didn't want Harry contacting Sirius. I am not sure how Kreacher learned about it, but I'd bet Sirius stared into it when he was lonely (read often). So Harry will find it when he next goes to 12GMP (if the Malfoy's or someone else does not inherit it). Then it will be useful. How I am not so sure. But I guess Harry will try to throw it through the veil. Wizards can't go through without dying, but maybe mirrors can and spirits can use them. That part I am less sure about than even my wild Kreacher speculation. It also could be a way to communicate with someone else inside Hogwarts. Maybe someone form a different house? All just wild guesses.




Ellen Stockley - Jul 4, 2004 2:22 pm (#28 of 249)

People seem to be saying that Harry couldn't contact Sirius with the mirror, so maybe it is going to have some other use. I'm not sure...

When Harry tries to contact him and it doesn't work he tells himself Sirius must not have taken his mirror with him through the veil, but I don't think this is true. Sirius was always standing by, waiting to help Harry if he could. He would have kept the mirror with him at all times, especially when he went to the Department of Mysteries to try and find him surely??

So, what if it is just more difficult to contact him now, but there is still a way, involving some complex magic that Harry doesn't know. It's likely it wouldn't work in the usual way now, from 'beyond the veil' - what do people think?




Sticky Glue - Jul 13, 2004 2:26 am (#29 of 249)

I agree with you Ellen, I think that Sirius would have made sure he had the mirror with him at all times, so he has taken it through the veil with him. I also think that what JKR says on her site means that even if Harry had used it, Sirius would have done something to get killed, but it now means that it will be very important in books 6 and 7 that Harry and Sirius both have the mirrors. I think the Mirror will be easy to repair the same as repairing Harry's glasses. I'm sure the mirror will allow Harry to communicate, at least with Sirius, but maybe because it's gone through the veil it's not working right, like things are reflected, which could mean the words are coming out backwards and sound like mumble.




Round Pink Spider - Jul 19, 2004 4:33 pm (#30 of 249)

I've had something about magic mirrors and glass that I've wanted to add, but haven't had time to put together. Then I put it together to share it with Sarah, in response to a question about the Mirror of Erised and a trap by Voldemort. What do you think?

Have you noticed the connection between touching your nose to a mirror-like/glass-like magical surface and passing through it? Harry ALMOST touched his nose to the Mirror of Erised (JKR specifically mentioned it). He DID touch his nose to the glass-like surface of the thoughts in the Pensieve, and fell in. The visitors at St. Mungo's pass through glass to get into the Hospital. Lockhart had his nose pressed to the glass in the window of the door leading to the Spell Damage floor (I know he was already out of the locked ward, but maybe that's how he gets out -- teehee!).

Could Harry's nose lead him into that sort of a trap? Yeah, I could see it!




Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 4:39 pm (#31 of 249)
Edited Jul 19, 2004 5:40 pm

RPS, forgive me if I'm wrong, are you saying that the mirror/glass in the Mirror of Erised was actually more a liquid than a solid?




TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 19, 2004 6:27 pm (#32 of 249)

Had an interesting thought while I was rereading the Mirror of Erised (SS). "Harry was looking at his family, for the first time in his life." He recognised his mother, whom he'd really never had a memory of. Why didn't he see Aunt Petunia, whom he grew up with? Just a passing thought.




Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 6:57 pm (#33 of 249)

For one, his Aunt Petunia, though nasty to him, was still there unlike his parents.

Secondly, the Dursleys have never been something Harry deeply desires.

Another thought, if Harry gets another chance to look in the Mirror of Erised, will Sirius appear?




The giant squid - Jul 19, 2004 10:18 pm (#34 of 249)

Why didn't he see Aunt Petunia, whom he grew up with?

Because the mirror showed him his greatest desire, and the *last* thing Harry desired then (or, probably, now) was Petunia or the Dursleys. As for the wording, I'd say that Harry doesn't consider the Dursleys to be his family, merely the people he was forced to grow up with.




TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 20, 2004 2:02 am (#35 of 249)

Ah! That makes sense, thank you!




Round Pink Spider - Jul 20, 2004 4:07 pm (#36 of 249)
Edited Jul 20, 2004 5:08 pm

RPS, forgive me if I'm wrong, are you saying that the mirror/glass in the Mirror of Erised was actually more a liquid than a solid?

Not at all, Prongs. The glass at St. Mungo's was a solid. (Tonks' breath fogged it, I believe.) I think that mirrors/glass in the Wizarding World can be enchanted to transport someone to a different place (notice that when they passed through the glass at St. Mungo's, there was no sign of the dummy). Distance matters, we've been told. But think of the possibilities! A mirror could hide a secret room (like the ROOOOOM of DOOOOOM) or a passageway. Or, as I said, it could be a one-way trap!

I think that the enchantment on the Pensieve is different, since I assume Harry didn't actually go anywhere in that case, but "got lost in Dumbledore's memories." (It could be a little like sticking your head in the Floo Network fire.) However, I was mostly concerned in drawing the parallel in the HP world with touching your nose to an enchanted glass/mirror and "going" somewhere else.




centauriffic - Jul 28, 2004 2:23 pm (#37 of 249)

Earlier on this thread, there was a discussion about mirrors at #4 Privet Drive being used to keep tabs on Harry. Just wanted to add the thought that maybe Tonks, when she checked her hair in the mirror in Harry's bedroom (OoP), was actually giving some sort of signal to DD or someone else. Any thoughts?




Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 29, 2004 2:01 am (#38 of 249)

centauriffic - I like it. Have you read "Witches Abroad" by Terry Pratchett? In it one of the characters uses mirrors and other reflective objects (including ice and water drops) to spy on people. I think this is based on tradition, though I haven't found anything on the net. This would be a good way for Tonks to have told the reserve team that they were at Privet Drive, had got Harry and would soon be ready to go. Would probably work better on non-magic mirrors. Dumbledore try's to use one and the mirror tells him to get out, and asks what he thinks he's doing. But someone did ask about the suits of armour, on another thread I think, and this would tie into that - the use of mirrored/reflective surfaces to watch Harry and the school.




Round Pink Spider - Jul 29, 2004 4:37 am (#39 of 249)

Centauriffic,

Very clever!!! Never thought of that!




Madame Librarian - Jul 29, 2004 8:22 am (#40 of 249)
Edited Jul 29, 2004 9:23 am

Aaaah, mirrors. Think of all the famous mirrors (or items that function as mirrors).

The looking glass that Alice tumbles through.

The wicked queen in Snow White chats with hers.

Count Dracula has no reflection (one way of detecting a vampire).

That Greek fella who saw his reflection in the river and so fell in love with the good-looking guy there, that he never was quite normal again (gaaaa! I can't remember his name; it's a word that means vain and egotistical today).

JKR is following a well-established tradition in using the deep symbolism of the mirror.

Ciao. Barb




Chris. - Jul 29, 2004 8:34 am (#41 of 249)

I think you mean Narcissus, Madame Librarian?




timrew - Jul 29, 2004 1:37 pm (#42 of 249)

On reflection, I think you're right, Prongs.




Madame Librarian - Jul 29, 2004 2:34 pm (#43 of 249)
Edited Jul 29, 2004 3:35 pm

Prongs, thank you! I'm still reeling from the fact that I couldn't dredge up his name. I tell you, getting older isn't for wimps.

Another thought. Mirrors can be terrifying. To some they are giving back an image of oneself that can be unsettling. It's reversed--right is left, left is right. Also, strongly metaphoric. To some it's just unpleasant to contemplate what one really looks like. We all know people, even attractive ones, who say they never look in a mirror unless that have to. Others can't not look in one (or pass a shop window and peer at it searching for their own reflection). Then there is the thriller device of the hall of mirrors, trapping the hero or whoever in an infinity of images. It's almost impossible to distinguish real space from reflected space in that kind of situation.

Whether or not JKR uses any of these classic "meanings" for mirrors again in books 6 and 7 is impossible to predict, but if she does so, it will be handled well.

Ciao. Barb




Round Pink Spider - Jul 29, 2004 7:50 pm (#44 of 249)

Hall of Mirrors -- the ROOOOOOM of DOOOOOM, perhaps? Filled with mirrors that show Harry terrible images?




Chris. - Jul 30, 2004 8:10 am (#45 of 249)

Just thinking here... Wasn't there a mirror in a tale from The Arabian Nights? If I remember, it showed the Prince Alasnam whether or not a person could be trusted.




Round Pink Spider - Jul 31, 2004 3:22 am (#46 of 249)
Edited Jul 31, 2004 4:23 am

Prongs, you and your avatars! :-D You go through them like changing your shirt!

I've never read Arabian Nights (shame on me!). Can you summarize that story?

I'm thinking about starting a "Literature References" thread because there are SO MANY!!!

EDIT: Um, references, I mean...(although there are a lot of threads)




Padfoot - Aug 2, 2004 12:43 pm (#47 of 249)

I've never read Arabian Nights (shame on me!). Can you summarize that story?

LOL! Ok, Arabian Nights is a collection of short stories. The book I have at home is around 1,000 pages. What kind of summary would you like? Did you ever read Grimm's Fairy Tales? How about Aesop's Fables? Similar to both of those, just with a Middle Eastern flavor.

As far as a mirror in one of the tales, I cannot remember off hand. There might have been.




Chris. - Aug 2, 2004 4:13 pm (#48 of 249)

I have never read the short stories. It was in an English textbook that I was using. The subject of magical mirrors arose, and then the subject of the Arabian Nights connection.




Round Pink Spider - Aug 3, 2004 3:24 am (#49 of 249)

Oh, I was aware it was a collection of short stories. I meant a summary of that one story. I don't happen to have a copy of that book...although come to think of it, I'll bet if I did a search on mirrors and Arabian nights with that name Prongs gave, I'll bet I'd find the story on the Internet...Maybe I'll try that.




Ann - Aug 3, 2004 10:44 am (#50 of 249)

The mirror, which is presented to Zayn al-Asnam for the purpose of a quest, allows him to identify virgins. Doesn't seem a likely theme for the Harry Potter series.

"However, I will give thee a mirror of my own whose virtue is this. When thou shalt sight a young lady whose beauty and loveliness please thee, do thou open the glass, and, if thou see therein her image clear and undimmed, do thou learn forthright that she is a clean maid without aught of defect or default and endowed with every praiseworthy quality. But if, contrariwise, the figure be found darkened or clothed in uncleanness, do thou straightway know that damsel is sullied by soil of sex."
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Mirrors (posts #51 to #100)

Post  Potteraholic on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:43 am

Chris. - Aug 3, 2004 12:03 pm (#51 of 249)

Ann, I heard another version but it was woman who he could trust.




Solitaire - Aug 5, 2004 11:07 am (#52 of 249)

Round Pink Spider, some interesting things just came up on the Chambers thread about the Mirror of Erised, which you mention above. (Oh, there are also some "color" things which show up, too.) I was going to post further over there, but I think it fits better here.

On that thread, Elanor brings up Narcissus and people who get lost looking at their own reflections. Well, that made me start wondering whether we might not see something involving Narcissa Malfoy and the Mirror of E. Perhaps she finds her way to it and wastes away, like her namesake. She can't have been named Narcissa for nothing! I have to believe that her name and a mirror are going to play a role in her ultimate (I hope) downfall. But maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Or perhaps--depending on what happens with 12GP--could we see Kreacher giving her some of the things left in the house? Suppose Narcissa gets her hands on one of those 2-way communicating mirrors. If Harry is able to Reparo! his mirror, it might allow him to eavesdrop on the Malfoys. Worse ... she could figure out what it is and use it to spy on him.

I'm also wondering if the mirror can still function when it is broken in pieces (as long as it hasn't completely shattered), in which case he might give a piece of his to Ron and one to Hermione. Knowing Hermione, she could probably figure out a way to charm a regular mirror to do what that one did.

About Harry's nose and mirrors/Pensieves ... well, he IS always literally "sticking his nose into other people's business" when it comes to those Pensieves, isn't he? Perhaps that particular quirk of his will figure into his next adventure.

About the foe-glass someone mentioned that was found in the Room of Requirement ... Isn't a foe-glass one of the tools used by Aurors? If so, it would be a REQUIREMENT for studying DADA, wouldn't it?

Solitaire




TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 5, 2004 11:31 am (#53 of 249)

I was watching you all advance that theory together, great work! A great reflection on the group!

(See, I got mirror in here :-)




Round Pink Spider - Aug 6, 2004 10:57 am (#54 of 249)

Congrats, Twink. :-) (-:

Wow, Solitaire, there's so much to reply to in your post I could start an essay! (Nah, not another one...)

On that thread, Elanor brings up Narcissus and people who get lost looking at their own reflections. Well, that made me start wondering whether we might not see something involving Narcissa Malfoy and the Mirror of E. Perhaps she finds her way to it and wastes away, like her namesake. She can't have been named Narcissa for nothing! I have to believe that her name and a mirror are going to play a role in her ultimate (I hope) downfall. But maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Well, I commented earlier on this thread that I think mirrors could be used as traps as well as tools...

Or perhaps--depending on what happens with 12GP--could we see Kreacher giving her some of the things left in the house? Suppose Narcissa gets her hands on one of those 2-way communicating mirrors. If Harry is able to Reparo! his mirror, it might allow him to eavesdrop on the Malfoys. Worse ... she could figure out what it is and use it to spy on him.

I wouldn't put it past Kreacher to give her some of that stuff, if he hasn't already. But I doubt they leave those mirrors lying around (HRH haven't seen one yet, as far as we know; they're probably pocket-sized). I think, from what JKR has said, that Harry will repair the mirror, and it will help Harry considerably. But I suspect there are ways to prevent that kind of spying (or they wouldn't need Snape!).

I'm also wondering if the mirror can still function when it is broken in pieces (as long as it hasn't completely shattered), in which case he might give a piece of his to Ron and one to Hermione. Knowing Hermione, she could probably figure out a way to charm a regular mirror to do what that one did.

I don't know if it'll work broken (I expect we may find out...), but I wouldn't put it past Hermione to figure it out, if James and Sirius could do it.

About Harry's nose and mirrors/Pensieves ... well, he IS always literally "sticking his nose into other people's business" when it comes to those Pensieves, isn't he? Perhaps that particular quirk of his will figure into his next adventure.

Gotta watch that nose...I do think Harry's nose will get him in big trouble next book (I feel another literary reference coming on)...

About the foe-glass someone mentioned that was found in the Room of Requirement ... Isn't a foe-glass one of the tools used by Aurors? If so, it would be a REQUIREMENT for studying DADA, wouldn't it?

Possibly it's a requirement for survival as an Auror...or for fooling Umbridge...




Solitaire - Aug 6, 2004 3:50 pm (#55 of 249)

Well, as for fooling Umbridge ... I'm on record as thinking SHE is a fool. Sorry, I know I'm not supposed to be mean, even to characters. *simpering in a toady, Umbridge-like way*

Yes, the mirrors-as-traps idea is intriguing to me, as well. I liked the mention of the Room of Doom, the House of Mirrors, etc. Can you imagine doing battle with DEs or LV in a House (or even room) of Mirrors? THAT would be terrifying!

Right now, I am concerned about Sirius's mirror in particular. If he was giving Harry something the rest of the Order used to communicate, then wouldn't they all have known Harry had the mirror, had he decided to use it? I guess I'm speculating about whether they are a "party line" kind of mirror, or if they are more like walkie-talkies that can only communicate with each other. I wonder if Remus ever knew about that mirror ... and if he knows Harry has it ... and whether or not Remus himself had one.

I am hoping Harry shows the mirror to Ron and Hermione and they discuss it and try to either repair it or use the pieces--or both--just to work out how it functions. I have also been wondering about the "7 years of bad luck" thing I've always heard about which follow someone who breaks a mirror.

Gosh! Can you imagine the size of the volumes that will be required to adequately address all of our questions and concerns? Poor JKR! hehe We'll need a large dolly to haul them around.

By the way ... I'll be waiting patiently for the nose essay! Smile

Solitaire




Round Pink Spider - Aug 6, 2004 6:23 pm (#56 of 249)

I'm thinking that the Order's mirrors (if that's what they use, but that's what I think, too) probably work like Sirius': say the name, and it connects. But Sirius' mirror may have been a one-way, and it may not connect with any of the Order's mirrors. Still, I think the members of the Order would be fools not to give Harry some better way to communicate with them than the "head-in-the-Floo-network" method.

I think that one of the things that gave JKR chills when she saw the PoA movie was the bit with Sirius saying Harry's name in the crystal ball. I'll bet it foreshadowed Sirius speaking to Harry through the mirror.

If you get tired of waiting, here's a "head start" on the nose essay (we're busy with Macbeth on "Long Theory" right now, but I'll get there): See posts 30 and 36 on this thread, then think elephants, literature, and the PoA movie. (Sorry, I'm a spider, I like riddles! Hehe!) :-D




Solitaire - Aug 6, 2004 10:35 pm (#57 of 249)

Round Pink Spider, I have a confession to make ... I have not seen PoA. I hate going to theatres (too long to explain why here). I'm waiting for the DVD release. I do not remember Sirius in the crystal ball in the book. Is it a movie-only thing?

I'm watching your Macbeth theory. Macbeth is one of my favorite Shakespeare plays. I've even seen the Toshiro Mifune kabuki style movie of it (THRONE OF BLOOD).

BTW, I began thinking of the Bloody Baron the other ghosts who always join the feasts ... and making the connection to Banquo's ghost at Macbeth's table.

Oh, dear ... now I am starting to connect things ... about how a host is responsible for his guests' safety as long as they are under his roof--rather like Petunia and Harry.

The Weird Sisters speak in paradoxes--"when the battle's lost and won"--because that's what will happen when Harry does battle with Voldemort. One will lose, one will win ... or maybe Harry must lose in order to win?

Oh, dear! This gets addictive, doesn't it? I'll go and check #30 & 36, although w/o the movie, they may mean nothing. Later!

Solitaire




Round Pink Spider - Aug 7, 2004 4:14 am (#58 of 249)

Very, very good, Solitaire! I'll make a "Spider" of you yet!

Would you please copy your Macbeth comments over to "Long Theory"? I think you're correct on both counts: the Bloody Baron and that Harry must appear to lose in order to win.

Yes, the crystal ball thing was a movie-only moment.

The posts may not help you without the movie, but not because there are no clues in the books. It's just that the clues in the movie were visual and blatant (from my point of view), whereas the clues in the books are very subtle, descriptive clues. It'd be a challenge without seeing the movie... not impossible, with my hints, but a real challenge.




Archangel - Aug 13, 2004 10:42 pm (#59 of 249)

The image that a person sees in the Mirror of Erised changes with the person's desire right? I was wondering what you the gang see if they all looked at the mirror during the 6th year in Hogwarts. I'd be very interested on what Hermione sees given that JKR has revealed what Harry and Ron's desires were back in PS/SS. For that matter, Snape too...




Chris. - Aug 13, 2004 10:43 pm (#60 of 249)

Hmmm... interesting thought.

Do you think Harry's, and Ron's, image in the Mirror of Erised will have changed since PS/SS? Obviously, Sirius would be included in Harry's but is Ron still as power-hungry?




Solitaire - Aug 13, 2004 11:28 pm (#61 of 249)

Prongs, do you think it is power-hunger or just a very simple desire to be recognized as "worth something," to stand out from his brothers on his own merit? I guess I ascribe Ron's vision in the mirror to more benign feelings.

Solitaire




Archangel - Aug 13, 2004 11:37 pm (#62 of 249)

Harry's image changed a bit in the Mirror while he was battling Quirrellmort in PS/SS but I think if he looks again, it might change to show Sirius coming back to life as that's the impression I got to be his deepest desire after OoP. As for Ron, would Hermione appear by his side while he seems himself as Head Boy and Quidditch captain?




Solitaire - Aug 13, 2004 11:56 pm (#63 of 249)

Harry's new image could be himself vanquishing Voldemort, too.




Ann - Aug 14, 2004 5:30 am (#64 of 249)

Solitaire, he may come to that, but I don't think it is really his deepest desire at this point. I mean, he wants it to be done, but I don't think he really wants to do it himself. I would think he would really rather be left in peace and let someone else have the glory.




Solitaire - Aug 14, 2004 8:40 am (#65 of 249)

Probably so, Ann ... but now that he knows the prophecy and realizes he is a "marked man," his desires may have changed.




Round Pink Spider - Aug 14, 2004 12:00 pm (#66 of 249)

He probably would see a deep, dark cave where he could hide, no? :-D




Sticky Glue - Aug 31, 2004 8:15 pm (#67 of 249)

Does anyone else think that Harry will repair his two-way mirror, or do you think that it is important to the plot that it's broken?




TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 31, 2004 11:41 pm (#68 of 249)

"do you think that it is important to the plot that it's broken?"

I think Harry breaking the mirror is meant to symbolize that Sirius is truly gone, the shattered mirror makes the breach final. Considering it is almost three am, I hope that made some kind of sense.




Solitaire - Sep 1, 2004 1:03 am (#69 of 249)

It's indeed a good metaphor, Twinkles ... 3 a.m. or not.

Sticky, I do think it is important, though I'm just not sure how, at this particular moment. It isn't 3 a.m. here--it's only 2 a.m. ... I just woke up, saw the computer still on, and came in to turn it off. I guess sitting down to post in the middle of the night when I am half asleep makes me a true addict ... or maybe just a big dummy.




TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 1, 2004 1:34 am (#70 of 249)

"a true addict ... or maybe just a big dummy."

Whichever it may be, join the club. Just don't throw any mirrors!




Loopy Lupin - Sep 1, 2004 5:46 am (#71 of 249)

Didn't JKR say in a chat that we haven't heard the last of that mirror?




Ann - Sep 1, 2004 6:16 am (#72 of 249)

She said (on the website FAQ) that it wouldn't have helped as much as you might think, but it will help more than you think (or something like that). This seems to make it quite clear that the mirror, fixed or not, is going to play a role.




Solitaire - Sep 1, 2004 6:27 am (#73 of 249)

it wouldn't have helped as much as you might think, but it will help more than you think

Ann, that sounds a lot like something Sybill might have said, doesn't it?




Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 3:06 pm (#74 of 249)

I'm thinking that the "it wouldn't have helped as much as you might think," part of JKR's statement is an answer to what would have changed if Harry would have thought to use the mirror to verify that Sirius was being tortured in the MoM. I think that for some reason Sirius didn't have the mirror with him at the time. It couldn't have helped Harry any if Sirius didn't have the other mirror. It would seem as if Sirius wouldn't have been without the mirror, but perhaps it was hidden by Kreacher to prevent its use.

On the other side, if Sirius didn't have the mirror when he fell through the veil, then it means that it still exists. If the other mirror is still around for future use, then the "it will help more than you think" part of her statement will prove true.

I think that the mirror being broken may be significant, but will not diminish its ability to be used. There are many instances in the books where glass or glasses are repaired. Surely the mirror can be repaired as well. I also remember that Moody's Foe Glass mirror was cracked and was still in use for the DAs.

I'm curious as to whether the mirror can hold memories like a pensieve. James and Sirius had used the mirror many times. It might be informative, or just enjoyable, it Harry could "view" the exchanges between the two.




Round Pink Spider - Sep 2, 2004 10:58 am (#75 of 249)

I do think Harry is going to fix it (maybe as a tribute to Sirius -- he doesn't have many things from him). But who knows how it'll be useful?

JKR has said that the wizards have something better than the Internet, and I suspect it's magic mirrors. People have speculated in other places that maybe that's how DD watches Harry. And maybe that's why they have to "Imperturb" the Order's meetings: so Voldemort can't spy on them. (He did have a mirror in that throne room -- I wonder what Voldemort saw in the mirror when Harry saw Voldemort in the mirror? Do you suppose he saw Harry?)




LooneyLuna - Sep 3, 2004 9:15 am (#76 of 249)

"(He did have a mirror in that throne room -- I wonder what Voldemort saw in the mirror when Harry saw Voldemort in the mirror? Do you suppose he saw Harry?)" - Round Pink Spider

When I had originally read that part of the book, I thought the reason Harry said, "Noooo" was that he saw himself in the mirror. That Harry was Voldemort - if that makes any sense. When Harry is in Voldemort's mind, Harry uses first person to describe what's happening. Now I'm just rambling. Sorry!




Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 11:13 am (#77 of 249)

The Lion, Dark Wizard and Mirror or Gryffindor, Grindelwald and the Mirror of Erised

Q. In your first book there is secret message on the Mirror of Erised. Are there other secret messages throughout the book that we should be watching for?

J.K. Not secret messages of that type, but if you read carefully you’ll get hints about what’s coming. And that’s all I’m saying! (October 16, 2000, Scholastic.com chat)

Grindelwald is only mentioned once on the back of a Chocolate Frog card. But, I think some of us suspect that there is a greater or hidden importance to him. When Harry was trapped in the Chamber of Secrets, who would have expected that the Sorting Hat would produce Gryffindor’s sword to help Harry defeat the Basilisk. Or in the graveyard surrounded by Death Eaters, who would have expected that because Harry and Voldemort own brother wands; Harry would be saved from certain death. It is these small details that keep us wondering if some other small detail, like the mention of Grindelwald on a card, is a possible clue to future events in the story.

The current train of thought is that there is a Tom Riddle, Grindelwald and Hitler connection. Tom Riddle tied to Grindelwald and Grindelwald tied to Hitler. But, I speculate a Gryffindor, Grindelwald and Dumbledore connection. I suspect the original owner of the Mirror of Erised was Gryffindor. The Mirror is stolen or found by Grindelwald. The Mirror is returned or became a possession of Dumbledore after he defeated Grindelwald. (I used the word returned in the previous sentence because I suspect that Gryffindor was the first Headmaster of Hogwarts. Along with the portraits, Gryffindor and others have left items in headmaster’s office for future headmasters and headmistresses. There are plenty of gadgets in Dumbledore's office. Some of these items certainly could have been left by other previous headmasters and headmistresses. )

Recently, the J. K. Rowling website revealed the following excerpt:

‘(He) looked rather like a lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.

I suspect this is the Half-Blood Prince and that Gryffindor is an Animagus that turns into a lion. The mane, tawny color hair and yellowish eyes suggest a lion. I don’t take the Prince title too literally. I could imagine a flashback scene at the beginning of Book 6, Salazar Slytherin is yelling after sealing the Chamber of Secrets, Godric you Half-Blood Prince your love of Mudbloods will destroy Hogwarts! Wizards aren’t above sarcasm, 'Weasley is our King!’, was chanted by Slytherins against Ron. Also, Half-Blood could have replaced the politically incorrect Mudblood. Gen. John 'Black Jack' Pershing, the WWI Commander in Chief of the American Expeditionary Force, was a former captain in the all Colored (Black) 10th Cavalry Regiment. The nickname 'Black Jack' was given because he was a captain in a Colored (Black) unit. It was given before he became Commander in Chief in WWI. History books, of course, have changed the original racist nickname that was given to Gen. John Pershing. (As a former history teacher informed me once that 'Black Jack' Pershing wasn’t named after the strong and sturdy blackjack tree.) If Muggles sometimes edit and rewrite history, why not Wizards? If Mudblood is that offensive, why not substitute Half-Blood.

Now, I’d like to support my theory of Gryffindor being an Animagus that turns into a lion. Prof. McGonagall is an Animagus. I suspect Dumbledore is an Animagus if not a Metamorphmagus. McGonagall is the current Transfiguration and and Dumbledore is a former Transfiguration teacher. Parselmouth is a trait associated with Salazar Slytherin and dark wizards. Why couldn’t being an Animagus be a trait associated with Gryffindor? James Potter, Sirius Black and Peter Pettigrew are all Animagi. They were also all in Gryffindor. The mascot of Slytherin is a serpent because Salazar Slytherin talked to serpents. Maybe the mascot of Gryffindor is a lion because Godric Gryffindor was an Animagus that turned to a lion.

A flashback introducing the Half-Blood Prince at the beginning of Book 6 makes sense. From the J. K. Rowling website,

(the Half-Blood Prince is) '... a major part, but not only part of Book Six.'

The Half-Blood Prince, like the Goblet of Fire, would be a catalyst. The Goblet of Fire was only needed to select the students that were to be in the Triwizard Tournament. You could have easily titled Book 4 Harry Potter and the Triwizard Tournament. Even with the age restriction at the beginning of Book 4, you would have suspected that Harry would somehow be chosen to be in the Triwizard Tournament. A poor title would give too much away. Half-Blood Prince has probably been chosen not to give away too much and relates to the story of Book 6. Just like the Goblet of Fire doesn’t give away too much and relates to the story of Book 4.

Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, not killed, destroyed, etc. I think this is significant. For example, there was an old B-movie American cowboy of the 40”s and early 50”s, the Cisco Kid. The Kid, had the words, ‘I don’t want to hurt you.’, engraved on the barrel of his guns. So, he only wounded his foes, never killing anyone. It’s just like having your phazer set at stun instead of kill. Dumbledore chooses not to kill. (It is our choices that show what we truly are.)

Both Dumbledore and Tom Riddle lived in Britain during WWII. Tom Riddle lived in a Muggle London orphanage during the Blitz. You can easily imagine Tom Riddle listening to Hitler over the radio. A bomb could have easily destroyed St Mungo’s, though enchantments etc. could possibly prevented any damage. (Could it be when you see the aftermath of air raid damage, there is that lone building that somehow avoided the firestorm and is relatively intact, perhaps it was an enchantment protected Wizard building. After all St. Mungo’s is by Muggle eyes just an abandoned storefront.) Dumbledore chooses to follow Muggle affairs and at least reads Muggles papers. (That’s how he knows about the murder of Frank Bryce.)

Let’s look at this information from the J. K. Rowling website:

Question: In what way is ‘Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince’ related to ‘Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets’?

. . . The link I mentioned between books two and six does, in fact, relate to the ‘Half-Blood Prince’ (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in ‘Chamber’.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in ‘Chamber’ that foreshadows something that he finds out in ‘Prince’. . . .

Reader’s speculation should be focusing on some information in ‘Chamber’ (the book) that relates to ‘Prince’ (the book). If you look at Rowling’s response it’s not ‘the Chamber’. So, readers should be looking for something or some information found in ‘Chamber’ (the book) that relates to ‘Prince’ (the book). But, you could easily say something found in the ‘Chamber of Secrets’ (the place) is still something found in the ‘Chamber’ (the book). So, let’s look at the things present in the ‘Chamber of Secrets’ (the place).

The Chamber itself was built by Slytherin. The Chamber included the Basilisk and Ginny brought Tom Riddle’s diary and Tom Riddle appeared. After Harry entered, there is Harry’s wand (a brother wand to Tom Riddle’s) and Fawkes brought the Sorting Hat which produced Gryffindor’s sword. The fact that Harry and Tom/Voldemort’s wands are brother wands was revealed in Book 1. Harry learned that,

‘It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities’

After reading, ‘Godric Gryffindor’ on the sword, Harry learned,

‘Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out.




Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 11:17 am (#78 of 249)

‘Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry.’

But later, Harry also learned how powerful House-elf magic is.

‘You’ve lost me my servant, boy!’ (Lucius Malfoy)

But Dobby shouted, ‘You shall not harm Harry Potter!’

There was a loud bang, and Mr. Malfoy was thrown backward. He crashed down the stairs, three at a time, landing in a crumpled heap on the landing below. He got up, his face livid, and pulled out his wand, but Dobby raised a long, threatening finger.

‘You shall go now,’ he said fiercely, pointing down at Mr. Malfoy. ‘You shall not touch Harry Potter. You shall go now.’

Lucius Malfoy had no choice. . . . (page 338, American edition, CoS)

But, how powerful is House-elf magic? In Goblet of Fire, are these statements by Barty Couch Jr.:

. . . ‘Winky was afraid to see me so angry. She used here own brand of magic to bind me to her. She pulled me from the tent, pulled me into the forest, away from the Death Eaters. I wanted to hold her back. I wanted to return to the campsite.’ . . . (page 687, American edition GoF)

House-elf magic is wandless. House-elves can Apparate and Disapparate within Hogwarts. There are 100 House-elves at Hogwarts. A hundred House-elves would be a strong ally in the second war against Voldemort. But, how does this relate to the Half-Blood Prince unless the Half-Blood Prince is half House-elf. Hagrid is half giant and wizard. Fleur is a quarter Veela, her grandmother is a Veela. (Peter Pettigrew is short, could he be half House-elf? A half House-elf and wizard Prince would certain rally the Hogwarts House-elves if not all other House-elves against Voldemort. )

Back to ‘Chamber’ (the book), there is quite a bit of debate about a Slytherin vs. Gryffindor dynamic. If Voldemort is the Last Heir of Slytherin then Harry must be the Last Heir of Gryffindor. If Slytherin built the Chamber of Secrets could Gryffindor have left something also. I speculate that Gryffindor left the Mirror of Erised, the Sorting Hat and his Sword. Fawkes is a phoenix and phoenixes are reborn from fire every 500 to 600 years. Fawkes could easily have been owned by Gryffindor.

Gryffindor was the originally the Mudblood Prince. Because Mudblood is so offensive revisionist have altered it to the Half-Blood Prince. Gryffindor was an Animagus that turns into a lion. Gryffindor owned the Mirror of Erised that led to the defeat of Grindelwald. (Could a spell rebound from a mirror? Probably). Dumbledore has the Mirror of Erised. And finally, the Mirror of Erised will be used to defeat Voldemort.

Just something to mull over on a hot Labor Day weekend. Ciao GC

PS Just shows want a bored Harry Potter will do until Book 6 is released.




Solitaire - Sep 5, 2004 8:48 pm (#79 of 249)

On this thread, we have discussed the various mirrors Harry has encountered. Is it possible that the Mirror of Erised could provide Harry with the clue to vanquishing Voldemort ... IF that was the deepest desire of his heart?

Solitaire




Madame Librarian - Sep 6, 2004 4:58 am (#80 of 249)
Edited Sep 6, 2004 6:01 am

Solitaire, good question! I, too, let that thought drift through my brain, but it wandered off, found some obscure neuron to hide in, and blinked out. Now that you've prodded it back on, let me try to say this so others understand (i.e., that's not the only thing that wanders in my brain; outgoing thoughts do, too).

Say Harry confronts the Mirror of E. again at the beginning of year 6 at school and sees his heart's desire. What would he see? Would it be the same vision of being surrounded by a close and loving family he saw before--a personal wish? Or, would he see a society released from the terrors of Voldemort and the DEs--a communal dream? Is his vision one that's highly personal or something unselfish for the greater good? Does Harry's conscious or unconscious run the show here?

Just for the sake of argument I'll start a list of possible images he'd see (don't know why, I'm into lists these day; good way to deal with a disorganized mind maybe). Add to it and/or discuss. Possibly we'll get some insights.

Harry starts school for his 6th year. Checks out the Mirror again and sees:

Happy, loving family; parents still alive.

Sirius, happy and waiting for him at 12 GP.

Bellatrix Lestrange dead.

Voldemort vanquished (i.e., some scene of Wizarding society celebrating the victory of Good over Evil).

Winning Quidditch team; Harry as captain.

Harry as a completely uninvolved, ordinary Muggle kid who's totally oblivious to the whole business.

That's all I come up with without getting silly (e.g., the Dursleys relocating to Australia for good).

Additions? Comments? Anything?

Ciao. Barb



^pGerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 7:54 am (#81 of 249)

We don't know the origins of the Mirror of Erised. But, it was so important and JKR used it so well. I don't think it would just vanish like a flobberworm or blast-end skrewt.

I think I did read that the Mirror of Erised was part of the central plot but couldn't find it. You know reading different things you can't always remember where you had seen it before. I don't think I just made it up.

The Mirror of Erised is still so fascinating even Dumbledore needed to warn Harry not to look for it, again.

We don't know how the Mirror works. If your deepest desire is to kill/destroy Voldemort or see Sirius again, what would the Mirror show you?




I Am Used Vlad - Sep 6, 2004 8:09 am (#82 of 249)

Is it possible that the Mirror of Erised could provide Harry with the clue to vanquishing Voldemort ... IF that was the deepest desire of his heart? Solitaire

I don't think the mirror would show Harry a practical clue that would help to vanquish Voldemort. That would definitely qualify as providing truth, something we are told the mirror doesn't do.




Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 8:11 am (#83 of 249)

We just have to wonder how the Mirror defeats!

I think I mentioned possibly that spells should rebound or reflect off a mirror. You know like those old "film noir" films from the 40's. They are shooting at reflections of each other in a House of Mirrors. Imagine a Wizard Duel in a room full of mirrors with spells being reflected and bouncing around. Dumbledore could draw Grindelwald into a mirrored room. And Grindelwald could accidentally shot himself. (Think of Sidney Greenstreet in the Man from Shanghai, mirror breaking as shots are ringing out until someone falls dead from a shot from nowhere.) Dumbledore doesn't kill anyone because a spell reflects back killing the wizard who cast it. GC

(Just reposted this from the Grindelwald thread) I never thought of the Mirror of Erised giving hints. In the books we only have one Seer, Trelawney, and she's a bit of a fraud. (Firenze can divinate but really hasn't predicted anything yet.) And there have been some discussions on the threads about what Ron saw in the Mirror of Erised. Ron's a prefect. Something he saw in the Mirror. If Ron becomes Quidditch Captain and Headboy, then the importance of the Mirror of Erised will really be debated. GC




LooneyLuna - Sep 6, 2004 10:16 am (#84 of 249)

Harry did direct the Mirror of Erised, though. Once Harry thought (thought hard) that his greatest desire was finding the stone, he looked into the Mirror and got it.




TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 3:54 pm (#85 of 249)

Yes, one of Dumbledore's more "brilliant ideas".




Solitaire - Sep 6, 2004 6:17 pm (#86 of 249)

Dumbledore says the mirror gives neither knowledge nor truth ... yet it gave both to Harry when he needed to find the Sorcerer's stone.

Perhaps he needs to discuss with Dumbledore the idea of using it to find a way to defeat Voldemort. I hope he does.

Solitaire




Hollywand - Sep 6, 2004 7:38 pm (#87 of 249)

Perhaps Dumbledore's wish for socks, symbolizes a detachment from personal drives that Dumbledore has attained. Perhaps Dumbledore realizes that truth and knowledge lie outside the desire for immortality, the desires of the reflected self.




Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 7:51 pm (#88 of 249)

Wow! Hollywand, what a great response.




ex-FAHgeek - Sep 8, 2004 5:57 am (#89 of 249)

---quote--- Dumbledore says the mirror gives neither knowledge nor truth ... yet it gave both to Harry when he needed to find the Sorcerer's stone. ---end quote---

I'd like to alter this a bit - the Mirror did not give knowledge or truth, it created them by altering reality.

My own opinion is that this is not an inherent ability of the Mirror; it was a set of spells/rituals that Dumbledore placed on the Stone and triggered to activate via the Mirror's power. Dumbledore needed a method to both hide the Stone and retrieve it later - he created that method himself using the Mirror of Erised as a tool.




Gerald Costales - Sep 8, 2004 6:11 am (#90 of 249)

I'm of the opinion Dumbledore owns the Mirror of Erised. If it's not Dumbledore's, who does own it? It wasn't really important, who owned the Philosopher's Stone. Maybe ownership of the Mirror isn't really, that important. This is the Mirror thread and Sirius's two-way mirror has been discussed. Should we return to that topic or do you think the Mirror of Erised will return to the story and have some new impact in the future? The Mirror is Erised is certainly a fascinating magical object. Dumbledore had to warn Harry not to look for it again. But, why couldn't Harry look for it now? Isn't Harry's current deepest desire to see Sirius again? :-) GC




Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 8:29 am (#91 of 249)

Harry shouldn't look into the mirror again because he would find himself almost "bewitched" by it. He wants desperately to see Sirius and his parents again. He would either spend all of his time in front of the mirror watching them, or he would decide to go and join them. DD warned that men waste away in front of that mirror or go mad trying to figure out if what they see could be possible. DD should definitely keep the mirror away from Harry!

Barbie




Solitaire - Sep 9, 2004 12:04 am (#92 of 249)

I think the Mirror of Erised has its uses ... "gazing" into it in order to meet personal needs and desires could prove deadly.

On the other hand, if one has a definite purpose, such as finding a solution to some sort of riddle, it could be quite useful. The secret to using it is KNOWING its secret, so that one does not become distracted and ensnared in its trap.

Solitaire




Gerald Costales - Sep 11, 2004 6:40 am (#93 of 249)
Edited Sep 11, 2004 7:46 am

Solitaire (re: post # 92)

‘The secret to using it is KNOWING its secret, so that one does not become distracted and ensnared in its trap.’

I believe Harry does KNOW how to use the Mirror the of Erised. Look at this following excerpt:

. . . . . . ‘The Mirror (of Erised) will be moved to a new home tomorrow. Harry, and I ask you not to go looking for it again. If you ever do run across it, you will now be prepared.

. . . . . . (page 213 & 214, Sorcerer’s Stone, hardback edition)

People USE computers without KNOWING its secrets (how computers really work). I think the trick with the Mirror of Erised is to KNOW how it works.

The next time Harry did see the Mirror of Erised it was with Quirrell. Harry didn’t KNOW the secrets of the Mirror but Harry knew HOW to work it. He produced the Stone into his pocket before Quirrell could get it. This is the difference between THEROY and PRACTICE.

In THEROY, a bumblebee should be unable to fly. The large body produces a large amount of drag. The small stubby wings couldn’t possibly produce the lift or thrust to overcome this large amount of drag to produce flight. But because the bumblebee doesn’t know the THEORY of flight in just flies. This is an example between the THEROY and PRACTICE of a situation.

Harry is not an idiot savant in regards to the Mirror. It wasn’t just dumb luck that allowed Harry to use the Mirror properly. As Dumbledore said, . . . ‘you will now be prepared.’ Harry will avoid being trapped or ensnared by the Mirror. Harry is a very talented wizard. He had never been on a broom (a magical object), but flied well enough to become the youngest person to play seeker in over one hundred years in Book 1. He also used the Mirror of Erised (another magical object) in Book 1 to defeat Voldemort. Harry used Tom Riddle’s Diary (magical object) in book 2. Harry used the Marauder’s Map (magical object) in Book 3. Though underage, Harry competed in the Triwizard Tournament and won in Book 4. He also used the Pensieve (magical object) in Book 4. Harry taught the members” of the DA in the PRACTICE of Defense Against the Dark Arts in Book 5. (Of course, while Umbridge just had them only reading on the THEORY of Defense Against the Dark Arts.) Harry also battled Death Eaters at the MoM in Book 5.

Without ever having the benefit of lessons, some people can take up a musical object and begin playing the piano, etc. Harry took up the broom and could fly expertly and he approached the Mirror of Erised and used it to defeat Voldemort. Some of the magical objects listed above are probably fool proof.: Tom Riddle’s Diary was also used by Ginny; the Marauder’s Map had instructions from Fred and George; and the Pensieve was just there to be used twice.

If the Mirror of Erised returns to story, Harry will still be prepared and use it properly again. ; - ) GC

PS - Excuse the extra use of Capitalization. Besides JKR does it all the TIME. ; - ) GC




Solitaire - Sep 11, 2004 4:53 pm (#94 of 249)
Edited Sep 11, 2004 5:54 pm

Gerald, when I said "The secret to using it is KNOWING its secret," I was aware that Harry now knows its secret--so that he should not have to worry about becoming its victim. Hence my suggestion, in Post #79, that he might try and use it to find a way to vanquish Voldemort.




Gerald Costales - Sep 12, 2004 6:52 am (#95 of 249)

Solitaire: I'm still wondering if the Mirror of Erised will return to the story. Knowing Harry current state, I'm afraid his new deepest desire will be see to Sirius. I'm not too confident that will be a good choice, since the Mirror - . . . "gives us neither Knowledge or Truth . . .". It's possible that Harry could be trapped not my the Mirror itself, but by people knowing he wants to use the Mirror to see Sirius again.

Also, if Ron becomes Quidditch Captain, that would mean three of the things Ron saw in the Mirror would have occurred. Ron saw himself holding both the House and Quidditch Cups (which he help win in Book 5) in the Mirror. Ron becoming Quidditch Captain could happen in Book 6. The last thing Ron saw was himself as Headboy, Ron is currently a Prefect and a possible candidate for Headboy. No one expected Ron to be Prefect. Ron could be Headboy just to take some of the pressure off Harry. Which was the reason Dumbledore gave Harry when he made Ron Prefect in Book 5. JKR has stated that she wouldn't want to be Harry because of what Harry has to face. If everything Ron saw does become true, it would make the Mirror a very important sought after object. (There are just some many magical objects in the story, the Hand of Glory, etc.)

I don't thing the Mirror predicts the future since some of our deepest desires can come true. But, there is no way of knowing how important it could be to others. The Death Eaters chased the Prophesy in Book 6 to no avail. Then again, the Mirror could just be another plot device. Sirius wasn't trapped at the MoM but Harry playing the Hero stormed off on a rescue attempt anyway. The Mirror could be the red herring for Book 6.

And finally the mIrror could provide, as you already stated, a solution to a riddle in Book 6. : - ) GC




Solitaire - Sep 12, 2004 4:41 pm (#96 of 249)

Speaking of that hand ... no, never mind. I'll take that one to Dean's thread.

About the mirror ... if Ron becomes Quidditch Captain and Head Boy, all we will know is that he was able to achieve what were the deepest desires of his heart back when he was 11. It would not necessarily mean that the mirror foretold the future. It would just mean that Ron dreamed dreams he felt were within his grasp.

Still, if those things come to pass and Harry begins to think about Ron's look into the Mirror that night so long ago (and it would have to be in book 7 for the Head Boy thing to happen), he might begin to speculate about whether he could use the mirror to achieve the deepest desire of his heart--which, by book 7, might well be to vanquish Voldemort, so that he stops losing people he loves.

Just speculating ...

Solitaire




Gerald Costales - Sep 12, 2004 6:40 pm (#97 of 249)

Solitaire, seems we frequent the same threads. Just want to keep the idea of a possible return of Mirror of Erised to the Story. For all we know a new more interesting magical object will be introduced in Book 6. After all we've had the Pensieve, there's that silver instrument in Dumbledore's office that produced the two snakes (no explanation on that object so far), the Hand of Glory, etc.

JRK is such an imaginative author. The possibilities certainly has kept us busy typing on Lexicon Forum. Not complaining. This is still the best choice to keep busy until Book 6 is released. : - ) GC




Sticky Glue - Oct 7, 2004 2:50 pm (#98 of 249)

I don't think we will see the mirror of Erised again, but I think other mirrors will play a very big role in the next books. Like the two-way mirrors etc.




Paulus Maximus - Oct 7, 2004 3:02 pm (#99 of 249)
Edited Oct 7, 2004 4:04 pm

"he might begin to speculate about whether he could use the mirror to achieve the deepest desire of his heart"

He did achieve the deepest desire of his heart at one point. Seconds after looking into the mirror and seeing himself holding the Stone...

Between that and Ron's achievements (if he gets everything he wanted), Harry might actually dream up ways to get his family back, I'm thinking.

Heck, he might even walk through the veil, knowing that he will not be able to kill himself until he has defeated Voldemort...




TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 7, 2004 5:51 pm (#100 of 249)

"He did achieve the deepest desire of his heart at one point. Seconds after looking into the mirror and seeing himself holding the Stone..."

Paul, I am assuming you meant his deepest desire AT THAT TIME? To obtain the Stone to keep Voldie from getting it? Seems I remember Dumbledore saying something about one of his most brilliant ideas, only one who wanted to get the Stone, BUT not USE it? Something along those lines?

I wonder if Harry looked into the MIRROR of ERISED now what he would see?
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Mirrors (posts #101 to #150)

Post  Potteraholic on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:48 am

Solitaire - Oct 7, 2004 8:51 pm (#101 of 249)
Edited Oct 7, 2004 9:52 pm

Twinkles, that is what I meant ... the desires now. I suppose it might be to have Sirius back with him, laughing his barky dog laugh. Then again, I wonder if he might not see himself defeating Voldemort.

Think back to PoA when Harry saw himself casting the Patronus charm to repel the Dementors. He did not realize it was HE who cast it ... until he DID cast it; he thought it was his father. But once he was in a situation to realize it had been himself, he was able to do it, because he had SEEN himself do it.

What if Harry looks into the Mirror of Erised. Perhaps, if the greatest and deepest desire of his heart is to learn how to vanquish Voldemort, he might be able to SEE himself doing just that.

Okay, I know it's just a pipe dream ... but it COULD happen! Anything is possible in JKR's world!

Solitaire




Paulus Maximus - Oct 8, 2004 7:21 am (#102 of 249)
Edited Oct 8, 2004 8:22 am

Dumbledore said that the Mirror reveals neither knowledge nor truth. If Harry's deepest desire was to kill Lord Voldemort, he'd see himself standing over Lord Voldemort's corpse, I think.

The Stone was a special case, but the means to defeat the Dark Lord probably isn't.




LooneyLuna - Oct 8, 2004 3:33 pm (#103 of 249)
Edited Oct 8, 2004 4:34 pm

But, Dumbledore also said that if Harry ever came across the Mirror again, he would be prepared and know how to use it. I think when Dumbledore said that the Mirror reveals neither knowledge nor truth, he meant to those who don't know how the Mirror of Erised works. They cannot gain knowledge or truth from it. Harry gained both knowledge (where the stone was hidden) and truth (in his pocket), whereas Quirrell was going bonkers trying to figure out how to get the stone from the Mirror.

I think Harry could possibly use the Mirror to defeat Voldemort. But then again, Voldemort knew how the Mirror worked ("use the boy").




LooneyLuna - Oct 9, 2004 7:59 am (#104 of 249)

I was just rereading the Mirror of Erised chapter when I noticed this.

Here's what the Mirror has written on the top: Erised stra ehru oyt ube cafru oyt on wohsi

Backwards it is:

I show not your face but your hearts desire.

Cool!




Solitaire - Oct 9, 2004 11:09 am (#105 of 249)
Edited Oct 9, 2004 12:13 pm

First, Paulus, I didn't use the word kill; I said vanquish. They could mean the same thing, but perhaps not.

More importantly, I did not say that Harry wanted to see Voldemort dead; I said he might want to see himself defeating (not having already defeated) Voldemort. The reason I used the present participle was that I thought he might want to know what he needs to do to defeat him. If Harry were able to observe the process, perhaps he might be able to discover this information.

Solitaire




Paulus Maximus - Oct 9, 2004 12:08 pm (#106 of 249)

That's what he thought when he looked into the mirror the second time: "What I want more than anything else is to find the Stone before Quirrell does. So if I look into the mirror, I should be able to see where it's hidden."

Harry didn't learn where it was hidden; it simply appeared in his pocket.

Harry could think "What I want more than anything else is to vanquish Lord Voldemort. So if I look into the mirror, I should figure out how to defeat him."

If Harry didn't learn where the Stone was hidden the former time, I very much doubt that he'll learn how to defeat Voldemort the latter time. Nor will Voldemort be automatically be defeated if Harry looks in the mirror; again, the Stone was a special case.




haymoni - Oct 9, 2004 3:51 pm (#107 of 249)

I think if Harry looks in the Mirror now, his scar will be missing.




Phoenix song - Oct 9, 2004 4:52 pm (#108 of 249)

"I think if Harry looks in the Mirror now, his scar will be missing." Haymoni

That's a good point. I'm sure that his deepest desire right now would be that he had never been marked, that this path had not been placed in front of him. It's a chilling thought, really.

Barbie




haymoni - Oct 9, 2004 7:30 pm (#109 of 249)

I had just read the part in OotP when he is sitting by the lake and realizing that he has always been a marked man.

Poor boy!




schoff - Oct 11, 2004 8:27 pm (#110 of 249)

Solitaire: On the other hand, if one has a definite purpose, such as finding a solution to some sort of riddle, it could be quite useful. The secret to using it is KNOWING its secret, so that one does not become distracted and ensnared in its trap.

Solitaire: I was aware that Harry now knows its secret--so that he should not have to worry about becoming its victim.

The safety of the path to what the Mirror shows is not set in stone, nor can it be trusted to be reliable. It would not be a good idea for Harry to follow it. Just because one knows *how* to avoid falling into the trap, doesn't mean that they will succeed in doing so.




TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 12, 2004 2:31 am (#111 of 249)

"Just because one knows *how* to avoid falling into the trap, doesn't mean that they will succeed in doing so."

Very good point Schoff! Dumbledore understood what the pitfalls of loving Harry could do to his "plan", and still fell into the trap.

What Harry might see in the mirror next time he encounters it and how he interprets what he see's can be two different things, much like his dreams of the MOM. Seems to me that any tool Harry has at his disposal can either help or hinder him, depending on his "choices".

Well, that almost made sense...toddles off to see if coffee is done yet.




Solitaire - Nov 8, 2004 8:35 pm (#112 of 249)

Since we are supposed to be seeing more of Narcissa in book 6, I'm wondering if she will have some sort of "encounter" with a mirror. Surely she can't be named Narcissa for nothing ... and JKR has said that mirrors will have a role in the story, I believe.

I'm hoping Narcissa encounters the Mirror of Erised. If she is anything like her namesake, Narcissus, it could be quite an interesting encounter. I can also see her--should she happen to be the one to inherit 12GP--finding Sirius's mirror that he used to communicate with James and using it to spy on Harry (who has the other one, although it is broken).

Any thoughts?

Solitaire




Annika - Nov 9, 2004 10:18 am (#113 of 249)

I have had that same thought Solitaire. If Harry figured out how to use the mirror, the reverse would be true, and he would be able to see into Narcissa's world (Draco's Detour). Although, someone with a name like Narcissa would probably be disappointed to see anything but her own reflection in a mirror.

Annika




Solitaire - Nov 9, 2004 11:02 pm (#114 of 249)

Annika, I just can't shake the Narcissa/Mirror thing. It has taken root in my brain! I am almost positive we are going to see her encounter some sort of magical mirror. Can you just see it?

"Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the most beautiful Death Eater of all?"




Annika - Nov 10, 2004 5:05 am (#115 of 249)

If Narcissa actually has lines in the next book, regardless of what they say, that is what I will hear!

Annika




LooneyLuna - Nov 12, 2004 6:12 am (#116 of 249)

Maybe Narcissa already has a mirror that she uses to communicate with Draco. Didn't JKR say Wizards have something better than the internet?

We haven't seen Narcissa look into a mirror, but I think we will.




Madame Pomfrey - Nov 12, 2004 12:42 pm (#117 of 249)

Can L.V. see himself in a mirror? I can’t recall and I sure see him as being somewhat of a vampire.




Annika - Nov 12, 2004 12:47 pm (#118 of 249)

Yes, I believe he can. Harry saw his reflection (as Voldemort) during one of his dreams.

Annika




Madame Pomfrey - Nov 12, 2004 3:52 pm (#119 of 249)

Thanks Annika. That has been bugging me.




Round Pink Spider - Nov 13, 2004 2:34 pm (#120 of 249)

Ah, but can SNAPE see himself in a mirror? He sure was interested in his reflection in the Foe Glass! :-D




TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 13, 2004 2:52 pm (#121 of 249)

RPS, maybe he was just checking to make sure he wasn't having a bad hair day :-)




haymoni - Nov 13, 2004 3:10 pm (#122 of 249)

RPS - If Snape was looking into the mirror, was he seeing himself or HIS foes???




TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 13, 2004 4:10 pm (#123 of 249)

I don't think there is a difference haymoni. Snape is his own worst enemy.




Solitaire - Nov 13, 2004 6:05 pm (#124 of 249)

Very true, Twinkles ... Snape is his own worst enemy. About the bad hair day ... it sounds to me as though he always has a bad hair day. Perhaps he was checking to see if maybe he was having a good hair day for a change!




haymoni - Nov 13, 2004 6:12 pm (#125 of 249)

I wonder if Snape knew who Fake Moody was.

He might have been curious as to why a DE would find him a foe.




Round Pink Spider - Nov 14, 2004 5:43 am (#126 of 249)

Haymoni -- since Harry was seeing Dumbledore, Snape and McGonagall looking out of the mirror, apparently it shows, not the enemies of those who look in it, but the enemies of the one who owns/is using it. So Snape would have seen what Harry saw.

Twink, Solitaire -- LOL!

Haymoni -- the other DEs didn't know what was going on either; Voldie had to tell them. And I think the mirror shows the truth. Although Snape may not be a "friend" to Harry, he was a foe to the Fake Moody. Remember also the animosity of Crouch Jr. towards both Snape and Karkaroff earlier in the book.




haymoni - Nov 14, 2004 8:11 am (#127 of 249)

Exactly - maybe when Snape saw his reflection he realized that Moody wasn't Moody. But when he realized that it was Barty, Jr., did he wonder why a DE would think him an enemy?




Paulus Maximus - Nov 14, 2004 2:20 pm (#128 of 249)

If so, he probably got his answer, about Crouch Jr despising DEs who went free...

Darn it... I can't remember if Crouch Jr voiced that contempt while under Veritaserum or only in Harry's presence...




haymoni - Nov 14, 2004 3:54 pm (#129 of 249)

I think only Harry was present - both times.




Gerald Costales - Nov 26, 2004 8:12 am (#130 of 249)

"Darn it... I can't remember if Crouch Jr voiced that contempt while under Veritaserum or only in Harry's presence..." Paulus Maximus

This is Barty Crouch Jr. speaking while under Veritaserum," . . . They were not enslaved, as I was. They were free to seek him, but they did not. They were merely making sport of Muggles. The sound of their voices awoke me. My mind was clearer than it had been in years. I was angry. I had a wand. I wanted to attack them for their disloyalty to my master. . . ." (pages 686 & 687, GoF, American hardback edition)

Don't remember the other time when Barty Jr., voiced his contempt of DE's. ;-) GC




Ann - Nov 27, 2004 6:36 am (#131 of 249)

There was a long discussion of this Foe Glass thing on the Snape thread, but I think RPS has raised an interesting point that didn't come up there. I had regarded Snape's appearance in the foe glass with McGonagall and Dumbledore as evidence that they were all equally foes of Crouch Jr., and therefore that Snape was truly on Dumbledore's side. It never occurred to me that Snape might be Crouch's enemy for a different reason than the other two.

Darn! I was so sure we could trust Snape (for whom I have a sneaking sympathy). Now I have to go back to wondering about him again!




Solitaire - Nov 27, 2004 1:24 pm (#132 of 249)

But Ann ... not knowing how to classify Snape is what makes him such a fascinating character. If he were clearly good or evil, he would not be so compelling. I agree that there is more than one reason Snape appeared in the Foe-glass. This keeps things interesting!




Choices - Dec 13, 2004 9:31 am (#133 of 249)

Here's a question - When Ron stands before the Mirror of Erised he sees himself as Head Boy, holding the Quidditch Cup and the House Cup and as Quidditch Captain. We know in book 5 he helped the team win the Quidditch Cup and he became a Prefect which is a step to becoming Head Boy and in book one Gryffindor did win the House Cup with Ron's help. So, of the four things Ron saw, two have come to pass and he is halfway to a third.

Harry saw himself surrounded by his family and near the end of book one he sees himself holding the Sorcerer’s Stone. He does get the Sorcerer’s Stone, so of the two things he saw, one has come to pass.

What do you think the chances are that the rest of what Ron and Harry saw in the mirror will come true?




Paulus Maximus - Dec 13, 2004 11:15 am (#134 of 249)

Given that Dumbledore said that the mirror reveals neither knowledge nor truth, I'd say the fact that any of Harry's and Ron's desires have been fulfilled is mere coincidence.

Nor do they seem happy with having achieved them. Even though Ron contributed to Gryffindor winning the House Cup in book 1, he still seemed to be in Harry's and Hermione's shadow. Harry got the Stone, but that didn't do much good. Ron won the Quidditch Cup, but remember his reaction when he learned that his best friends weren't there...




hells456 - Dec 14, 2004 2:52 pm (#135 of 249)

There is something to be said for knowing what your desires are. The first step to achieving your goals is to recognize them for what they are. It's possible that Ron's actions have been affected by what he saw in the mirror, we will never know if that experience prompted him to push himself forward by trying out for the team. He may have been having sleepless nights pondering over that image of himself, enough to help him overcome his fear and embarrassment.

Very interesting, Choices, and very sad for Harry if the things they saw do come to pass. The only way for Harry to be surrounded by his family is if he dies.

Hells.




Choices - Dec 14, 2004 5:47 pm (#136 of 249)

Hells - "The only way for Harry to be surrounded by his family is if he dies".....

Well, maybe not the only way. Who knows what JKR has in her bag of tricks for books 6 and 7?




hells456 - Dec 15, 2004 5:17 am (#137 of 249)

I hope she does come up with something I'd love to see Harry's parents come back, but unfortunately it doesn't look like she will.

"One of the most important things I decided was that magic cannot bring dead people back to life. That’s one of the most profound things. The natural laws of death apply to wizards as it applies to Muggles and there is no returning once you’re properly dead." JKR The Connection 12 October 1999




Paulus Maximus - Dec 15, 2004 9:20 am (#138 of 249)

Still, dying and resurrecting the dead are not the only ways for the living to communicate with the dead. Harry and Luna (both alive) heard voices from behind the Veil (all dead), so there must be some way to either make the voices clearer or decipher them, thus allowing communication between the living and the dead.

The question is, could the beings behind the Veil hear Harry and Luna?




Choices - Dec 15, 2004 10:45 am (#139 of 249)

There's that modifier again - "properly" dead. What if James, Lily and Sirius are not "properly" dead? What constitutes being properly dead? Is it sort of like Nearly Headless Nick not being properly decapitated? His head was cut off, but not "properly". Curious! Oh, how JKR likes to tease us with words.




Gerald Costales - Dec 18, 2004 9:58 am (#140 of 249)

I've thought the Mirror of Erised would return in Books 6 and/or 7. Unlike the Goblet of Fire. I think the Mirror of Erised has other things to reveal and add to the story. (And possibly the Chamber of Secrets.)

And there is still the Two-way mirrors that Sirius gave Harry. We know many things can be repaired magically. So, Harry could repair his mirror. The only catch is that Sirius didn't have his Two-way mirror when he fell through "the Veil".

Could Sirius' Two-way mirror be tossed through "the Veil" to Sirius to use? Then again is Sirius "properly" dead? ;-) GC




dizzy lizzy - Dec 18, 2004 12:56 pm (#141 of 249)

More to the point...Does Sirius need his two-way mirror "beyond the veil"?? I'm thinking that he could communicate to Harry without it, but Harry will need his mirror to talk back to Sirius and others in return.

Lizzy




Solitaire - Dec 18, 2004 9:33 pm (#142 of 249)

Didn't Nearly Headless Nick kind of settle the question of whether or not Sirius had "gone on"?




Choices - Dec 19, 2004 9:15 am (#143 of 249)

I think Nick settled the question of whether or not Sirius would come back as a ghost like the ones at Hogwarts - Nick, The Fat Friar, The Bloody Baron, etc. He tells Harry that Sirius has chosen not to remain as a ghost - being neither in this world or the next, but has chosen to go on. What exactly that means and what the possibilities are that we may see or hear from Sirius again, I don't know. After all, this is JKR's world that she has created and she calls the shots. If she deems that he will return in some way, then he will. She can manipulate the magic as she sees fit.




Sticky Glue - Dec 19, 2004 1:43 pm (#144 of 249)

Gerald there's a few of us who believe that Sirius has got his two-way mirror with him.




Paulus Maximus - Dec 20, 2004 4:47 pm (#145 of 249)

Yeah. For all Sirius knew Harry would use his mirror to contact Sirius at any time, so I doubt that Sirius ever kept his mirror out of earshot.




Solitaire - Dec 20, 2004 7:34 pm (#146 of 249)

If he had it with him--and it makes sense that he would, considering he told Harry to use it any time--and Harry could not get him to respond, what does this tell us?




Sticky Glue - Dec 22, 2004 4:00 am (#147 of 249)

Solitaire - what does that tell us

- The mirrors not working properly on the other side of the veil? - my thought is the words will be all garbled or backwards??? Or maybe Sirius was knocked out and hadn’t come round yet?




Gerald Costales - Dec 22, 2004 9:32 am (#148 of 249)

"Yeah. For all Sirius knew Harry would use his mirror to contact Sirius at any time, so I doubt that Sirius ever kept his mirror out of earshot." Paulus Maximus

I'd never had this thought and it does makes a lot of sense.

But, the point I think Solitaire could be making is even if Sirius is with his two-way mirror, the two-way mirror may not function in the world beyond the veil.

An Astronaut can talk in his spaceship, but outside of the his ship in the void of space sound doesn't travel. The Astronaut can yell until he's hoarse but, sound doesn’t' travel in space. The fact that Sirius has a two-way mirror beyond the veil doesn't mean it works beyond the veil and messages can come into our world on the other side of the veil.

Sirius possibly could contact Harry but it may be by another means besides the two-way mirror. Then again, it's JKR world and we don't know how things would or could work in any given situation.

The Shadows from Voldemort’s want talked to Harry in the Graveyard. But, that was more messages of encouragements or instructions and not a real conversation. But, given the situation Harry was fighting for his life and didn't have a chance to hold a conversation.

By now, we all know that Book 6 will released in July. Hopefully, many of the questions we have will be answered in Book 6 if not in Book 7. Can't wait until July. But, having a July date is certainly a welcomed present from Jo. Dreams of Book 6 are dancing in my head. Merry X-mas everyone! Happy Holidays! ;-) GC




Choices - Dec 22, 2004 10:04 am (#149 of 249)

The spirits that came out of Voldemort's wand were very aware of what was going on and knew that the Triwizard Trophy was a portkey back to Hogwarts. Evidently ghosts/spirits know a good bit of what goes on around them and can advise/warn the living of things.




schoff - Dec 22, 2004 2:17 pm (#150 of 249)

Those weren't spirits, they were reverse echoes. Shadows. (GF 36 US697)
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Mirrors (posts #151 to #200)

Post  Potteraholic on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:50 am

Choices - Dec 22, 2004 6:11 pm (#151 of 249)

Yes, I didn't have my book at hand and couldn't remember exactly what they were called. Whatever name you give them, they seemed to be very aware and knew just what to advise Harry to do. Sounds like a little more than just a "shadow" or a "reverse echo" to me.




MickeyCee3948 - Jan 1, 2005 7:21 am (#152 of 249)

What if you can't hear or see the person who has gone on but they can communicate by writing on the mirror. Much like Peeves does on the mirror on JKR's web site.

Mikie




Solitaire - Jan 1, 2005 8:24 am (#153 of 249)

Oh, interesting point, Mikie! I wonder if that is supposed to be a clue to us about how those mirrors can operate.

Solitaire




Elanor - Jan 1, 2005 8:26 am (#154 of 249)

I agree Solitaire (happy new year!), this is indeed a great idea Mikie!




Solitaire - Jan 1, 2005 8:47 am (#155 of 249)

Bonjour, Elanor, and Happy New Year!

Mikie, I am wondering how Sirius would write. We know Peeves is different than a ghost, so he is able to do things they are not. I believe we need considerably more info about the veil in Book 6. I'm curious about whether or not Sirius's body would have been recovered by Ministry workers ... If not, where did it go? And for that matter, what happened to James and Lily's bodies? Have we ever been told? We know what happened to Cedric's body and those of the Riddle family. Curious ...

Solitaire




Choices - Jan 1, 2005 11:23 am (#156 of 249)

The fact that we are not being told what happened to James and Lily's bodies, and Sirius' body, is for me a clue that something is up with that. JKR does not want us to know something about those bodies - do they look different??, are they missing??, are they not "properly" dead?? What? I think if she told us about them, she would be revealing something that she is not ready for us to know yet..... something that might reveal a great part of the Harry Potter mystery.




MickeyCee3948 - Jan 1, 2005 1:21 pm (#157 of 249)

Yes but when Harry & Voldemort are fighting in the cemetery and the "priori Incantatem" occurs you have Lily, James and Cedric who Harry just saw killed all come out of the wand. What other "proper" dead is there?

Mikie




Elanor - Jan 1, 2005 1:28 pm (#158 of 249)

"So that was how his parents had died... exactly like that spider. Had they been unblemished and unmarked, too? Had they simply seen the flash of green light and heard the rush of speeding death, before life was wiped from their bodies?" (GoF p.191) I always thought that those questions were not really questions but a way for JKR of telling us what happened that night. Besides, Hagrid saw their bodies, he says so in PoA: "Jus' got him outta the ruins, poor little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an' his parents dead..." (p.153). I think that Lily and James have to be buried together somewhere and that we will find out where in the next books.

As for Sirius, I think his body has disappeared behind the veil and that it will not be found by Ministry workers. In OotP, Lupin says "There's nothing you can do, Harry... nothing... he's gone." (p.711). Of course, there are different ways of reading those lines, this is just how I read them but other ways make sense too. (HBP in 196 days now...)




Solitaire - Jan 1, 2005 3:17 pm (#159 of 249)

Thanks for the reminders, Elanor. It does make sense, too, that the Potters' graves would be hidden from Voldemort, in particular. Given what he did to Harry and to his father's remains, he probably would have tried to desecrate Lily's grave, also, for some additional "protection."

The veil business is intriguing, however ... If they are not recovered as dead, where do those bodies go?

Solitaire




Madame Librarian - Jan 1, 2005 4:30 pm (#160 of 249)

Sirius, too, says he saw James' and Lily's bodies. PoA, ch. 19, pg. 365, U.S. paperback:

"Harry...I as good as killed them, he croaked. "I persuaded Lily and James to change to Peter at the last moment, persuaded them to use him as Secret-Keeper instead of me...I'm to blame, I know it...The night they died, I'd arranged to check on Peter, make sure he was still safe, but when I arrived at his hiding place, he'd gone. Yet there was no sign of struggle. It didn't feel right. I was scared. I set out for your parents' house straight away. And when saw their house, destroyed, and their bodies...I realized what Peter must've done...what I'd done...."

Ciao. Barb




Choices - Jan 1, 2005 5:50 pm (#161 of 249)

We certainly aren't being told who claimed their bodies from the house in Godric's Hollow and we aren't being told where they are buried - if indeed they are buried - and I'd bet money that if they are buried anywhere, it's on the grounds of Hogwarts so their graves can be protected from tampering. I think in book 6 or 7 Harry will discover where they are.




Solitaire - Jan 1, 2005 8:27 pm (#162 of 249)

Good call, Choices. I think I remember some comments about the location of a graveyard at Hogwarts and why it could not be shown in the PoA movie, or something like that. This leads me to believe you may be correct about where James and Lily are buried.

Solitaire




Sticky Glue - Jan 20, 2005 1:59 pm (#163 of 249)

I think mirrors, mainly the two-way mirrors will be important in the next 2 books. I would hate to see this thread get munched.

Can we also try to stay on track, the last few posts have very little connection to mirrors.




timrew - Jan 20, 2005 3:39 pm (#164 of 249)

On reflection, I can see that you're right, Sticky Glue.

The Mirror Of Erised will appear again, I'm sure; but this time, Harry will only see it as a link to his past.

Then there's the mirror that Sirius gave Harry. Very important. I think that's just waiting for a 'Reparo' spell from Hermione to have Harry communicating with Sirius again from 'beyond the grave'.




Paulus Maximus - Jan 20, 2005 4:09 pm (#165 of 249)

If enchantments on an object are like the Murtlap essence in the bowl, or the prophecies recorded in the orbs (i.e. lost if the object is broken), I doubt that a simple "Reparo" spell would restore the enchantments.

On the other hand, maybe the enchantment isn't broken if the object is broken... but then, Hermione could probably find a better use for several shards of a two-way mirror than the whole...




dizzy lizzy - Jan 20, 2005 4:23 pm (#166 of 249)

Could she make it a three (or four, or five) way mirror then??

Oh and how is Sirius supposed to talk to Harry through a two-way mirror if he didn't take the other half with him??

Lizzy




Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 4:27 pm (#167 of 249)

I caught it, timrew.




Prefect Marcus - Jan 20, 2005 5:47 pm (#168 of 249)
Edited by Jan 20, 2005 5:48 pm

I re-read the scene in OoP last night where Harry breaks the two-way mirror.

I could not help but notice that he broke it in his trunk, and then piled all his stuff on top of it. In other words, all the shards are lying there in the bottom of his trunk, just a Reparo spell away.

Hmmmmmm, I wonder if that is significant?




Choices - Jan 20, 2005 6:17 pm (#169 of 249)

I think Harry should learn "Reparo" himself. That mirror needs fixing and why wait for someone else to do it?




Solitaire - Jan 20, 2005 10:42 pm (#170 of 249)

Funny ... I was thinking about the same thing earlier today ... Reparo! Mirror! Perhaps he will do this when he gets back to Privet Drive.

Now, about those mirrors ... I can't help thinking we are going to see Narcissa involved in some sort of a confrontation (so to speak) with a mirror--an enchanted one, that is. Surely her name can't be a coincidence! Narcissus pined away for unrequited love of himself! I'm wondering if Narcissa will accidentally run into the Mirror of Erised and see something which so arrests her that she is unable to tear herself from the reflection and do what she needs to do ... bringing her own and her family's downfall. Just a thought ...

Solitaire




Madame Librarian - Jan 21, 2005 6:25 pm (#171 of 249)

Mirrors--huge metaphors, great symbolism. Yesss.

With the mirror in Harry's trunk broken into pieces, I wonder if he (or Hermione, she'd be more likely to think of this) tries to set up a communication network with Ron and Hermione. I can't remember if we're told how many pieces it's in, but maybe there's enough for Luna, Neville and Ginny, too.

Soli, I love your comment about Narcissa and mirrors. Didn't Narcissus pine away admiring himself (a guy, right?) by watching his reflection in the clear river water?

Ciao. Barb




Solitaire - Jan 22, 2005 1:04 am (#172 of 249)

Yes, Barb! I got in a hurry and omitted a crucial detail (I guess I figured everyone knew; not a wise thing to assume) ... he fell in love with his reflection in the water.

This myth, the things we know about enchanted mirrors (especially Erised), Narcissa's name ... Okay, maybe this is just too obvious, but it makes me wonder if she isn't going to have some trouble with a mirror. Mirror, mirror, on the wall ...

Solitaire




TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 22, 2005 1:32 am (#173 of 249)

Dumbledore has used the Mirror to his advantage before. He taught Harry not only about the Mirror and it's pitfalls but also laid the foundation for Harry to be able to use the Mirror to his advantage. "It was one of my more brilliant ideas, and between you and me, that's saying something. You see, only one who wanted to find the Stone -- find it, but not use it -- would be able to get it, otherwise they'd just see themselves making gold or drinking Elixir of Life."

It does seem possible that JKR (or Dumbledore) :-) will use the Mirror a third time. (Third times a charm?) And Narcissa seems to be a prime candidate.




dizzy lizzy - Jan 22, 2005 1:36 pm (#174 of 249)

Well it would certainly keep her (Narcissa) occupied and out of the way and absolutely no help to anyone at all if all she is doing is looking into a mirror (it is a fate worse than death in a way to be consumed by a compulsion so strong - to look into the mirror - it overrules any resemblance of life).

That's how I interpreted the above four or so posts. Oh and Madam Librarian, like you I think the broken mirror of Harry's will be more useful broken than whole. I mean now Hermione can have a good look at how it’s charmed and perhaps make a whole lot of mirrors. One to replace the broken one and others linked to it for the sextet (HRH+Ginny, Luna & Neville) for communicating. This sextet are too young for the Order and to use the Orders' way of communicating, so Hermione may just come up with something using the mirrors. A good stop gap measure.

Lizzy




popkin - Jan 29, 2005 9:31 am (#175 of 249)

The thread "The most important question -- Why didn't Voldemort die?" is discussing the rebounded curse that drove Voldemort's essence out of his body. Once poster suggested that perhaps the AK couldn't kill Voldemort because it came from his own wand. It got me to thinking about Harry as a mirror of Lord Voldemort.

My thoughts aren't extremely clear, but it's something about the curse rebounding. It bounces off Harry like a light off a mirror.

Harry has many characteristics in common with Voldemort, but at the same time they are completely different. Was Harry exactly like Tom Riddle from birth, but then his own choices and the choices of his parents differed from the choices of their counterparts, so Harry has been elevated from being the curse of Wizardkind to becoming a savior?

Did Harry and Voldemort each have a choice between the same two completely divergent paths? Up until that point, were they exactly alike? Was it as simple as choosing between houses?

Harry has seen Voldemort's face in the mirror - in his vision with Rookwood in OotP. If Harry makes a wrong choice at a critical time, will he become exactly like Voldemort? Has he already made steps in that direction?

If Harry and Voldemort are mirrors of one another, how does that tie in with the prophecy?

As always, more questions than answers.




Choices - Jan 29, 2005 9:47 am (#176 of 249)

Interesting Popkin - a lot of food for thought in your post.




Paulus Maximus - Jan 29, 2005 3:12 pm (#177 of 249)

"Has he already made steps in that direction?"

His use of Crucio on Bella could have some resemblance to Voldie’s use of Crucio...




Madame Pomfrey - Jan 30, 2005 3:18 pm (#178 of 249)

Good post Popkin. I've wondered about Harry myself. I Think Harry should be very careful with the choices he makes. It makes sense to me that he could very well end up in Voldemort’s shoes. He is an orphan. He has lost Sirius. He will probably lose Ron or Hermione or someone else he is close to. His powers have gotten stronger and so has his anger which is a dangerous thing I think. I agree with Paulus that his trying to use the Crucio was the first step. If he looses another loved one it might just give him enough anger to where an unforgivable curse will work because he will really want it to. Poor Harry.




ex-FAHgeek - Jan 31, 2005 5:47 pm (#179 of 249)

---quote--- He taught Harry not only about the Mirror and its pitfalls but also laid the foundation for Harry to be able to use the Mirror to his advantage. "It was one of my more brilliant ideas, and between you and me, that's saying something. You see, only one who wanted to find the Stone -- find it, but not use it -- would be able to get it, otherwise they'd just see themselves making gold or drinking Elixir of Life." ---end quote---

Harry finding the Stone isn't a normal function of Mirror - it's powers can't show the truth, and they can't change reality. Dumbledore rigged the Mirror for that little trick.




Steve Newton - Jan 31, 2005 7:42 pm (#180 of 249)

When Sirius gave the mirror to Harry he made sure that Molly did not see because she might be upset. Am I missing something about why the mirror would bother Molly?




Madame Librarian - Feb 1, 2005 6:29 pm (#181 of 249)

Steve, I think it's that Molly would disapprove of such a risky method of contact between Sirius and Harry. It's risky for Sirius--his whereabouts (hence the Order's hideout) could be detected somehow if either he or Harry were careless about the mirror usage, things might be overheard by the wrong person(s). This makes them vulnerable to the evil forces and to the MoM authorities who still are after Sirius. If Harry is found to be helping him...well, they'd haul him in, too.

Molly also would disapprove on general terms that Sirius's influence on Harry would be greater. In choosing such a risky method of communication, Sirius would, once again, be showing a lack of adult responsibility. He'd be setting a bad example for Harry.

Mother Hen Molly is risk-averse in a big way when it comes to her "chicks."

Ciao. Barb




Mrs Brisbee - Feb 1, 2005 6:35 pm (#182 of 249)

And Molly would certainly tell Dumbledore about the mirror. She takes Dumbledore's part in that argument everyone had at the beginning of OotP about how much Harry should know. I think Sirius was trying to do something to support Harry without certain people (read: Dumbledore) interfering.




Sticky Glue - Feb 24, 2005 5:24 pm (#183 of 249)

Are the two way mirrors a risky way of communicating? I wonder if they can be programmed (charmed) to only recognise or respond to certain voices?




dizzy lizzy - Feb 24, 2005 5:44 pm (#184 of 249)

I wonder if they can be programmed (charmed) to only recognise or respond to certain voices? - Sticky Glue

I think they would have some sort of charm on them. A bit like a wizardly PIN to identify the users.

Actually, come to think of it, could they be programmed to allow squibs to communicate to others in the WW. For example, Mrs Figg to Dumbledore??

Lizzy




Paulus Maximus - Feb 24, 2005 10:54 pm (#185 of 249)

I said earlier that I doubted that Sirius ever kept his half of the Two-Way Mirror out of earshot because he never knew when Harry would use it. However, I thought that this was evidence that the mirror was on Sirius when he fell through the portal, and I realize now that this conclusion may have been in error.

That Sirius always kept the mirror in earshot, I have no doubt. However, DD had confined him to 12GP for months. Sirius could have easily kept his half of the Two-Way Mirror on a table and still been in constant earshot of the mirror. And, in the hurry to get to the DoM, he would have left the mirror behind.




Albus Silente - Feb 25, 2005 6:03 am (#186 of 249)

Nothing happened. The frustrated face looking back out of the mirror was still, definitely, his own...

Sirius didn't have his mirror on him when he went through the archway, said a small voice in Harry's head. That's why it's not working...

(pg 756, Bloomsbury)




Winky - Feb 25, 2005 10:53 am (#187 of 249)

I think he could have had the mirror on him. I know this is off the wall but think of this. How many times in the books have we heard Harry has his father's face and his mother's eyes. In the quote you cited it also states the eyes looking back at him were his own. He looks again and the face looking back at him was his own. What if the eyes he saw was Lily's and the face he saw was James. What if he saw his parents? This sounds kind of far fetched but JKR also throws in some loops. It could even be possible because Lily was so good with charms and be the reason why Sirius was killed. I don't know just something to think about




Sticky Glue - Feb 25, 2005 2:13 pm (#188 of 249)

I agree in a way Winky, I think Sirius had to die to create a connection for Harry to his parents somehow. Maybe the two-way mirror is it, but I don't think it will work well to start with. As I said on the this thread some time ago, I think Harry will hear noises coming from his trunk, and will not realise for sometime that it's his broken mirror. I wonder if Sirius mirror going through the veil will mean the voices and sounds come out back to front or muddled up.




Sticky Glue - Mar 26, 2005 2:48 pm (#189 of 249)

Ok I know I have now got two posts together on this thread, but I don't want to see mirrors end up on the munchers list. I was wondering how many wizards may know of two-way mirrors, my thought is that it may be very old and forgotten magic except to the likes of Dumbledore. I will guess that James and Sirius came across how to make them while at school, and if the teachers had known about them, I’m sure they would have been taken off them especially during detention.




dizzy lizzy - Mar 26, 2005 2:59 pm (#190 of 249)

I'm not so sure the two-way mirror is a rare object. The thing is, I remember distinctly Sirius giving the mirror to Harry in a rather furtive way. He was trying to avoid Molly finding out about them (He and Harry) and the mirrors. So perhaps two-way mirrors are better known than we thought. And perhaps they have been used for more bad than good.

But for the life of me, I can't work out why Sirius would've taken the mirror to the MoM battle and had it with him when he went through the veil. As it can be seen by Harry smashing his mirror, they are just as fragile in the WW as in the Muggle world.

I wonder if the mirror's importance lies with the uses of the broken shards by Harry and Hermione and the rest of the DA than with Harry's actual potential to communicate with Sirius.

Lizzie




Solitaire - Mar 26, 2005 11:41 pm (#191 of 249)

I'd hate to see the mirror thread hit the muncher, too. I think mirrors are going to be important in the next two books. We have been set up with the 2-way mirrors and the Mirror of Erised ... I just feel sure Narcissa will have an encounter with a mirror. Her name, mirrors ... it just has to happen!

Solitaire




Winky - Mar 27, 2005 12:58 pm (#192 of 249)

I think that Sirius took the mirror with him to the MOM in hopes of reaching Harry. Nobody had any way of reaching Harry to tell him it was a trap. I can see Sirius garb the mirror in hopes Harry had it on him. This would have allowed for Harry to be forewarned of the trap and help get all of his friends out of MOM.




Cornelia - Mar 29, 2005 12:29 am (#193 of 249)

What if Kreacher has the other half and gives it to the Malfoys (Narcissa, Lucius is in Azkaban) and they try to spy through it? Or Harry tries one more time to contact Sirius and sees instead the Malfoys while planning further steps towards world domination?




Solitaire - Mar 30, 2005 9:07 pm (#194 of 249)

Yeah, Cornelia, I've wondered the same thing about that mirror ... what if it falls into Narcissa's hands?

Solitaire




Paulus Maximus - Mar 30, 2005 10:13 pm (#195 of 249)

Darn it... I forgot about Kreacher... Pardon my last post...

I guess not even the Fidelius Charm can guarantee that the mirror won't fall into enemy hands...




Gerald Costales - Apr 10, 2005 5:59 am (#196 of 249)
Edited Apr 10, 2005 7:02 am

Sirius' two-way mirror may possibly appear in book 6. But, I've always thought the Mirror of Erised would also reappear in either Book 6 or 7.

I know this has been asked before, but with Sirius' death - What would Harry's deepest desire be after his Godfather's dead? Now, Harry has had a Summer to mull the death of Sirius and possibly come to terms with it. But looking at how Cho handled Cedric's death, one can't be too sure how Harry will handle Sirius's death.

If Harry had some communication with Dumbledore or more probably Lupin, Harry may have dealt better with Sirius's death than Cho. But, I doubt Harry would have had much contact with either Dumbledore or Lupin our this last Summer. And both Ron and Hermione, I feel, neither have the experience to help Harry through his grief. And you can forget about the Dursleys helping Harry deal with Sirius' death.

Harry seemed desperate to see or talk to Sirius one more time (closure) at the end of Book 5. So, either the two-way Mirrors or the Mirror of Erised (my personal gut feeling) will reappear as the means for Harry to contact Sirius. (Don't even think of Harry going to that fraud Trelawney for a psychic reading.)

The now public reappearance of Voldemort and the escaped DE's (especially Bella) should be the major concern of the new Minister of Magic. I think with Fudge hopefully gone that the new Minister will have better ties to Dumbledore. And Dumbledore may be too busy helping the new Minister to advise Harry in September.

That would mean either Lupin or maybe the "Half-Blood Prince" should be Harry's new mentor. Harry being mentored by the HBP may not be that farfetched. Especially if the HBP is the new DADA teacher. (Hopefully Lupin will reappear as the DADA teacher and mentor Harry again. But, I seriously doubt that would happen again.)

I think I've lit a big dung bomb. Waiting for reactions with bated breath. ;-) GC




Choices - Apr 10, 2005 9:00 am (#197 of 249)

Well, Harry has just experienced the loss of Sirius and we know this is his shortest stay at 4PD, so maybe Dumbledore realizes that Harry needs diversion and needs to be among friends, so he is making arrangements for Harry to leave 4PD early. Where he will go I have no clue, but I hope it is to be with Ron and Hermione, or the Weasleys or Lupin.




hells456 - Apr 11, 2005 12:53 pm (#198 of 249)

GC, I don't see how Harry's deepest desire would have changed much since he first looked into the mirror of Erised. Essentially, he is still longing for the loving family that was taken away from him. For all we know Sirius could have been included in the group he saw but didn't realise at the time.

BTW this is not a dung bomb, you always have lots of good stuff to contribute round here - even with your phoenix fixation and wand envy ;-)

Hells




Aqualu Nifey - Apr 15, 2005 4:55 pm (#199 of 249)

Hells, do you not think Harry has changed over five years? His dreams are bound to have changed since then. At that point, Harry was still accustomed to having an improper family and couldn't have been nearly as attached to Ron and Hermione then. He still wanted to feel welcome and at home, so the mirror showed him a lot of people that could have been his family, we don't know if they actually were, except James and Lily, who Harry would still have some memory of. Now, Harry is surrounded by good friends, and Molly Weasley has even said that he's as good as her son. Harry does have a family, now. I think if Harry would look into the Mirror of Erised right now, he would probably see James, Lily, and Sirius.

In any event, I remember this old mini-series on NBC or CBS or something, called "The 10th Kingdom" I think, where they used mirrors as a form of transportation. They would just jump through the mirror and end up someplace else. Thought it was nifty.




Choices - Apr 15, 2005 5:53 pm (#200 of 249)

I still think Harry would see his family in the Mirror of Erised. Look at all the adopted children who grow up in loving homes, but still yearn to find their birth parents. I don't think that desire to find our roots ever goes away completely.
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Mirrors (posts #201 to #249)

Post  Potteraholic on Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:52 am

Solitaire - Apr 16, 2005 2:28 pm (#201 of 249)

hells456: you always have lots of good stuff to contribute round here - even with your phoenix fixation and wand envy

Hells, I am ROTFL over the "Phoenix fixation and wand envy" comment! heeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Solitaire




Gerald Costales - May 13, 2005 7:22 pm (#202 of 249)
Edited May 13, 2005 8:26 pm

"Phoenix fixation and wand envy" Maybe a bit ;-)

Yes, if you believe the Phoenix (Fawkes) was owned by Godric Gryffindor. And of course both Tom's "Yew Wand" and Harry's "Holly Wand" share a tail feather for their wand cores.

I still wonder if the Mirror of Erised will return to the Series. Now, if Ron becomes Head Boy will the Mirror of Erised have some new importance? I've also wondered who owned the Mirror of Erised? Anyone have any ideas? My guess has been Godric again. No surprise. ;-) GC

PS If anything I probably have a Gryffindor fixation, the Heir of Gryffindor is the postponed storyline from Book 2. ;-) GC

PPS Happy Friday the 13th everyone. ;-) GC

PPPS Isn't July 16th yet!!! ;-) GC




Sticky Glue - Jun 11, 2005 6:56 pm (#203 of 249)
Edited Jun 11, 2005 7:57 pm

I'm fairly sure that Ron will become head boy, and Quidditch captain, and end up holding the house cup, in book seven. I'm also fairly sure that Mr. Weasley will eventually become Minister of Magic, but probably not till the end of book 6 or book 7. But I don't think that the mirror of Erised will play any further part in the story - But other mirrors most certainly will - like the 2 way mirrors, is it an important clue that Harry broke his?




Paulus Maximus - Jun 13, 2005 5:16 am (#204 of 249)
Edited Jun 13, 2005 6:17 am

I am quite sure that the fact that Harry's mirror broke is important. The real question is, did the enchantment break along with the mirror, or does it still function as a 2-way (or 10-way) mirror?

(For the record, I didn't count the number of pieces... I just pulled 10 out of my hat...)




Ydnam96 - Jun 13, 2005 8:02 am (#205 of 249)

I don't know if I remember JK telling us how many pieces it broke into. But she did jump around an answer that seemed to imply that the mirror will be important...




Catherine - Jun 13, 2005 8:20 am (#206 of 249)
Edited Jun 13, 2005 9:21 am

JKR discusses the mirror: Why did Harry have to forget the mirror he had been given by Sirius in 'Order of the Phoenix'?

I can’t give a full answer to this, because it is relevant to books six and seven. However, the short answer is that Harry was determined never to use the mirror, as is clearly stated in chapter 24: “he knew he would never use whatever it was”. For once in Harry’s life, he does not succumb to curiosity, he hides the mirror and the temptation away from himself, and then, when it might have been useful, he has forgotten it. The mirror might not have helped as much as you think, but on the other hand, will help more than you think. You’ll have to read the final books to understand that! (underline mine for emphasis)

The text in OoP does not indicate how many pieces the mirror broke into.

Hope this helps.




Ydnam96 - Jun 13, 2005 8:22 am (#207 of 249)

Thanks Catherine. At the moment I'm feeling to lazy to look up quotes Wink




essie125 - Jun 18, 2005 6:16 am (#208 of 249)

Has anyone ever wondered where Sirius got the two-way mirror from? surely he did not take it with him to Azkaban. And I doubt it was at Grimmauld Place. Sirius tells Harry that he moved out of Grimmauld place and started living with James Potter's parents at one point. I don't know when Sirius started living with Harry's grandparents, but he must have taken the mirror wit him. Could he have given it to Dumbledore for save keeping, because he to was going into hiding.

And about the mirror of Erised. I have the feeling that everything Ron saw in that mirror will come true. He will probably become Quidditch captain and head-boy. If Harry dies at the end of book 7 he to will have what he desired. he will be reunited with all his family members. that's why the Dursleys were not in it. They were still alive.




haymoni - Jun 21, 2005 4:21 pm (#209 of 249)

Someone suggested that the Mirrors could have come from Zonko's.




essie125 - Jun 23, 2005 10:54 pm (#210 of 249)

Yeah but then how did Sirius get them back after he escaped from Azkaban. Cos he says he and James used to use them in detention so he must have had them before he went to Azkaban. but then how did he get them back. I doubt the fact that he walked into Zonko’s after he escaped and ordered one.




Solitaire - Jun 24, 2005 5:01 pm (#211 of 249)

Perhaps they were hidden away somewhere in the 12GP house.




Paulus Maximus - Jun 25, 2005 2:07 pm (#212 of 249)

Or perhaps in the house that he had bought for himself after he ran away...




essie125 - Jun 27, 2005 5:42 am (#213 of 249)

Didn't he go and live with the Potters after he ran away. I think he gave it to Dumbledore for safekeeping because he was about to go into hiding as well. Giving that mirror to Sirius so Harry had a non-dangerous way of contacting him would be something Dumbledore would do. With Umbridge walking around school he knew it would be too risky for Harry to use the fireplace.




Paulus Maximus - Jun 27, 2005 8:02 am (#214 of 249)

After he ran away, he did live with the Potters over the summer, but then a rich relative of his lent him some gold so he could buy his own house...

...and his 2-way mirror might have been there.




Choices - Jun 27, 2005 5:31 pm (#215 of 249)

Actually, his Uncle Alphard died and left Sirius money. He did buy a house of his own after spending time with James' parents for a while.




Paulus Maximus - Jun 28, 2005 5:13 pm (#216 of 249)

Ah, thanks for the correction.

I remembered that his uncle had given him the money, and that that was probably why he was erased from the family tree, but I didn't remember that he had been erased posthumously.




Sticky Glue - Jul 2, 2005 11:02 pm (#217 of 249)

I've been re reading Order of the Phoenix, and a comment that Snape made jumped out at me. "The Dark Lord is at a considerable distance and the walls and grounds of Hogwarts are guarded by many ancient spells and charms ................Time and space matter in magic, Potter.

I was thinking that, the reason the two-way mirrors would not have helped as much as we think, is because the spells, charms and distance would have stopped them working. But the reason they will be more helpful in the next book, is maybe Harry tries to use his again when he is out side of Hogwarts and closer to the Ministry of Magic.




Mrs Brisbee - Jul 3, 2005 6:15 am (#218 of 249)

I was wondering something similar, Sticky Glue. Sirius said he and James used the mirrors to talk while stuck doing different detentions, so they couldn't be very far apart when they were using them. It is possible the mirrors only have a short range.




Paulus Maximus - Jul 3, 2005 11:12 am (#219 of 249)

We know that you cannot Apparate into or out of Hogwarts...

...so maybe 2-way mirrors don't work when one is in Hogwarts and one is not... We don't know exactly what prevents Apparition, so it might prevent a whole bunch of other things...




Madame Librarian - Jul 15, 2005 6:48 pm (#220 of 249)

But wouldn't Sirius have known the range of the two-way mirror? Why would he have given it to Harry if he didn't think it would work?

I think some magical items are designed with an enhanced kind of magic intended to overcome distance and time (Time Turners). DD could just have been referring to the spells, curses, charms and hexes a wizard would direct at an object or person. You might not be able to transfigure a teacup if you weren't, say, within 10 feet of it, nor would a stunning spell have any effect if the victim was on the other side of a wall, but I suspect there are magical devices and spells performed by the likes of DD that are much less constrained. Ancient magic? House-elf magic? Stuff like that.

Ciao. Barb




Dame Peverell - Sep 2, 2005 11:06 pm (#221 of 249)
Edited Sep 3, 2005 12:09 am

Was the Curse reflected by a mirror?

Please see Godric's Hollow, post #100 and related entries. I have had to conclude that the Potters were using what was probably a mirror to communicate with Professor Dumbledore. In synopsis, this mirror enabled DD to create a Portkey with which he sent Hagrid to the Potters to rescue Harry. (There is really no other way Hagrid could have done the deed)

In addition to this, it occurs to me that if Lily were holding this mirror when she stepped between Lord Voldemort and Harry, it might be how the AK curse was reflected!!!

..... Right at the beginning, when Voldemort tried to kill Harry, how did Voldemort and Harry both survive? JK Rowling replies -> That is the crucial and central question and if I answered it there would be hardly any point writing books six and seven... so I won't! The "crucial and central question" of the series is why both Harry and Voldemort survived the killing curse.

This would show how his mother’s love actually managed to save Harry. LV survived because of his preparations.

I am not convinced of this part of my own theory here - there has been too much speculation I'm not up on. Seems to me we tried to work a mirror into the curse scene a few years ago and it broke.

Can anybody help?



^ptimrew - Sep 3, 2005 2:10 pm (#222 of 249)

Madam Librarian:- But wouldn't Sirius have known the range of the two-way mirror?

He would if he'd been using it all along to communicate with the dead James and Lily...........




Jeremy Tuttle - Nov 7, 2005 8:02 pm (#223 of 249)

In response to centauriffic, post #37 (over a year ago):

Ever wonder how Harry's transfer to 12GP would have gone if The Advance Guard had arrived during one of Harry's angry phases, instead of one of his apathetic moods? Good timing, that. Coincidence? I think not.

When Tonks volunteers to help Harry pack, she doesn't ask, she imposes herself on him and follows him upstairs. How did she know what she would find up there? She manages to make a disparaging remark about Petunia's impeccable housekeeping, setting herself up perfectly to make a positive remark about the total mess in Harry's room. Good guess? Coincidence? I think not.

Then, the first thing she does is weird for someone like Tonks who, we now know, isn't vain at all. "Tonks paused at his open wardrobe to look critically at her reflection in the mirror on the inside of the door." Then she changes her hair, sending a pre-arranged signal to HQ.

Note that the wardrobe door was open. They've been watching Harry for days.

That mirror in the wardrobe is a one-way communication mirror, has been for years. Most of the time the mirror at the other end is dark, because the wardrobe door is closed. DD (or his agent) only gets a brief look at Harry when he's putting clothes away or getting them out. Thus DD can keep an eye on Harry without violating his privacy too much.




TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 7, 2005 9:20 pm (#224 of 249)

Interesting observation, but how did wardrobe fit under the stairs? In the description of Harry's first, hmm, room, I don't recall it.

Correct me if canon says different, I am just too tired to look right now.

...toddles off to bed!...




Jeremy Tuttle - Nov 8, 2005 6:17 pm (#225 of 249)

TBE, I would say the wardrobe door mirror has only been enchanted since Vernon ordered Harry to use Dud's second bedroom. You're right, there was no wardrobe under the stairs, such a large piece of furniture wouldn't fit.

No mirror in there either, so far as we know. Just a bunch of spiders. I wonder how those spiders escaped Petunia's neurotic obsession with keeping a surgically clean house?

Maybe she never looked in there because it was Harry's place and she doesn't like him. Maybe those are just ordinary spiders, and for 10 years Dumbledore didn't keep watch inside 4PD, because he trusted the magic protecting Harry. Maybe.




Honour - Nov 11, 2005 4:48 am (#226 of 249)

Do you think that the Mirror of Erised will help Harry find all or any of the Horcruxes as it helped in PS/SS? Or would this be JKR repeating herself?




Choices - Nov 11, 2005 5:43 pm (#227 of 249)

That is indeed an interesting question. Dumbledore told Harry that the mirror gave neither truth nor knowledge, but showed us the most desperate desires of our heart. When Harry first saw his parents in the mirror, it really didn't do anything special or fulfill what he saw. But later, when it showed Harry with the stone, I think it did give Harry knowledge (of where the stone was) and it actually (somehow) made the stone appear in Harry's pocket. It showed him where the stone was (in his pocket) and suddenly it was there. Surely Harry would have known if it had already been in his pocket....so how did it get there? The mirror certainly made a transition from just showing one's desires to actually making that desire come true.




Sticky Glue - Nov 11, 2005 6:40 pm (#228 of 249)

The stone only ended up in Harry's pocket because Dumbledore had cast a spell so that would happen. I don't think the mirror had powers beyond showing the hearts desire, but Dumbledore certainly did.




Honour - Nov 12, 2005 12:11 am (#229 of 249)

I guess I was sort of half hoping that we would find that DD had left another clue or two for Harry with the mirror in book 7, but I suppose JKR has already "been there done that" ...

By the way nice to see your avatar Sticky Glue - Go the ALL BLACKS! and go the KIWI'S!




TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 12, 2005 12:49 am (#230 of 249)

"but showed us the most desperate desires of our heart."

What is Harry's most desperate desire? A family of his own. Possible it will be with Ginny, provided he overcomes a few small hurtles first, revenge, finding and destroying Horcruxes, defeating LV, and living to start his own family?

I'd be consulting that mirror! Dumbledore's spell may still be on it!




Choices - Nov 12, 2005 9:53 am (#231 of 249)

I don't remember Dumbledore putting a spell on the stone to make it go into Harry's pocket. I do remember him putting a spell on the stone so that only one who wanted to find the stone, but not use it, could get it. I suppose that could be interpreted to mean it somehow ended up in Harry's pocket. OK, I can go with that. It just seems the mirror was a little more helpful the second time Harry encountered it.




Solitaire - Nov 13, 2005 2:44 pm (#232 of 249)

I agree ... the spell was on the stone rather than the mirror. Surely the mirror will make another appearance. Helping Harry find where the Horcruxes are located would be a great way to use it!

Solitaire




Choices - Nov 13, 2005 4:55 pm (#233 of 249)

I totally agree Solitaire. I think what Harry would see now would be entirely different from what he saw the first time he encountered the mirror.




Honour - Nov 13, 2005 9:43 pm (#234 of 249)

Actually guys, TwinkingBlueEyes is correct in PS Dumbledore did enchant the Mirror of Erised (and not the stone as was mentioned above)...

Harry: "How did I get the Stone out of the Mirror?"

DD : "Ah, now, I'm glad you asked me that. It was one of my more brilliant ideas, and between you and me, that's saying something you see, only one who wanted to find the Stone - find it, but not use it -would be able to get it, otherwise they'd just see themselves making gold or drinking Elixir of Life. My brain surprises even me sometimes ..."

So, if Harry seeks out the Mirror of Erised will it show Harry the whereabouts of the yet to be found Horcruxes? Maybe and only maybe if finding them is Harry's "deepest, most desperate desire of his heart".




Gemini 13 - May 23, 2006 8:22 am (#235 of 249)

JKR said that the two-way mirror Sirius gave Harry would have importance in both book 6 and 7. Now that we've had time to make it through HBP several times... are there any mentions of the mirror in HBP? As far as I can remember there are not.




frogface - May 24, 2006 2:57 am (#236 of 249)

She never actually said that Gemini. As I recall, someone asked her if the mirror would come into play again in the future and she said something like "good question, there's your answer". So the Mirror may or may not appear in book 7, we just don't know.




haymoni - May 24, 2006 9:36 am (#237 of 249)

And she said the mirror was off the table during the Emerson/Melissa interview.

I'm thinking we'll see it in Book 7.

Or...maybe she just didn't want to talk about it.




Sticky Glue - May 24, 2006 2:22 pm (#238 of 249)

I was trying to find the direct quote about the 2 way mirrors - but alas it seems to have disappeared.

From memory I time someone asked why Harry didn't remember or use the 2 way mirror when he needed to contact Sirius - I believe the reply from JKR was that it may not have been as helpful as we think, but will be more helpful/ important later.

It wasn't mentioned in book six, so I believe it must be very important in book 7.




mike miller - May 26, 2006 4:34 am (#239 of 249)

It may be that the mirror symbolizes Harry's stubbornness and unwillingness to accept help from others. Harry said to himself when Sirius gave him the mirror that he would never use it; and, as a result of not trying to use the mirror Sirius died.

Harry seems very unwilling to accept help. This may cause him further pain before he realizes he needs help and there are those around him both willing and able to help. In fact, I'm guessing that Harry will not be successful without help.

I tend to doubt that we will see Sirius's mirror again. I don't think Reparo can return the magic needed to make two-way communications possible, but I've been wrong before.




Paulus Maximus - May 31, 2006 2:21 pm (#240 of 249)

I think if Harry looked in the mirror, he would see himself smashing the locket, the cup, the snake, and something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's, but would NOT reveal where those things are or how to destroy them.

Otherwise, Dumbledore had lied about the mirror revealing "neither knowledge nor truth", with the exception of a single spell that he put on the mirror to respond to one very specific desire. A desire, moreover, that Harry no longer has.




Honour - Jul 18, 2006 2:08 pm (#241 of 249)

Well, I still think Harry should use the Mirror of Erised to help him find the missing Horcruxes. Only trouble is, Harry will not think of this right away and may need Ron to jog his memory, which probably isn't all that likely either? Maybe Hermione or even Dobby?




Magic Words - Jul 19, 2006 7:46 am (#242 of 249)

Do you think the Mirror is still at Hogwarts?




Choices - Jul 19, 2006 8:02 am (#243 of 249)

I think there is every reason to suspect that the Mirror is still where we saw it last.....still at Hogwarts.




darien - Jul 23, 2006 3:21 am (#244 of 249)
Edited Jul 23, 2006 4:22 am

At the bottom of the Fluffy-trapdoor or somewhere else?




Magic Words - Jul 23, 2006 9:12 am (#245 of 249)

Could be. I was thinking of Dumbledore saying the Mirror would be moved to a new home, but then I realized he was referring to under the trap door, not somewhere else entirely.




Honour - Jul 27, 2006 12:45 pm (#246 of 249)

I thought it was in the ROR? Or am I imagining that? Smile




Choices - Jul 27, 2006 5:08 pm (#247 of 249)
Edited Jul 27, 2006 6:10 pm

It was in an unused classroom near the library where Harry had gone to look for information on Flamel in the Restricted Section. That was when Harry first encounters it. Later, it was moved to a room (where Harry confronted Quirrell/Voldemort) beneath the trapdoor guarded by Fluffy, and past all the puzzles that had to be solved to move on.




Honour - Jul 30, 2006 1:16 pm (#248 of 249)

Thank you Choices Smile

After I looked again I found it was the broken faux glass that Harry had noticed in fake Moody's rooms the year before.




Sticky Glue - Aug 12, 2007 12:33 am (#249 of 249)

I was sure the two-way mirror would be important in DH, but I was so sure that Sirius had it, so I was disappointed that he didn't.
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