Luna Lovegood

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Luna Lovegood

Post  Mona on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:17 am


This topic is an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. ~ Mona

Denise P. - Sep1, 2003 1:46 pm
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 2:22 am

I can't believe no one has started a thread for Luna. Luna is one of my all time favorite characters. I guess because she reminds me of me. Luna and Hermione are very similar but where Hermione deals in facts, Luna deals in possibility.

I don't think she is as spacy as she is made out to be. I think Luna is one sharp cookie who has cultivated her repuation as being a nutter, for reasons as yet unknown.

I hope we see a lot more of Luna in the upcoming books.


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Last edited by Mona on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post  Mona on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:31 am



Sly Girl - Sep1, 2003 1:02 pm (#1 of 1030)

Yeah, I like Luna too- I love the fact that she's quirky and she keeps her wand behind her ear like a pencil. lol I think she is an interesting addition into our already existing 'group' and helps balance things out. She the anti-Hermione, I think is what JKR said about her, so I think we will get to see her interact with the trio in more ways, just to be a different 'voice'.



timrew - Sep1, 2003 1:03 pm (#2 of 1030)

There's definitely more to Luna than meets the eye. For one, she seems to be the only one that can ease Harry's pain at the end of OOP, when he talks to her by the notice board.

One thing that struck me as odd there is how Harry feels 'sorry' for her. At first, I thought it was because people were stealing her things. But then I realised, could it be that Harry sees her as an 'oddball' like himself?

She tells him that people look upon her as Loony Lovegood - not quite the norm. Could Harry have connected to her in this way? I'm not suggesting a romance here - if there is, that's for another thread!

I just think Harry sees her as another, I don't know, 'outsider' like himself. Sure, he has his friends - but he always has things that he cannot share with them, like the Prophecy. Could Luna become the first of Harry's 'gang' to find out about this in book 6? I can well see her becoming a confidante of Harry's.



Denise P. - Sep1, 2003 1:08 pm (#3 of 1030)

Oh, good theory SE! One of the things that I thought was that Harry would push others away from him. If he views Luna as like him, an outcast..what have you...he may be willing to keep her closer. Like you said, not in a romantic way but as a friend.

By seeing thestrals, Luna already shares a bond with Harry that others don't...they went through the DE battle in MoM together. I really, really like the idea of her becoming a confidant of Harry's in the future. She will keep him thinking outside of the box.



fidelio - Sep1, 2003 1:11 pm (#4 of 1030)

I think that's a great point, Tim. As Moody says, "We all know there's something odd about that kid", or words to that effect. Yet he seems so normal on the outside, unlike Luna. It's only when you start going into everything that's happened to him, and what he's said about it, and how people choose to interpret that, that you see that he is almost as much of an outsider in the WW as he was back with the Dursleys. Having somone near him who's ready to look at things outside the normal framework would be a help. And as far as I can tell, not only does Luna see things outside the normal framework, she may not be ready to concede any framework at all!



Landman - Sep1, 2003 3:28 pm (#5 of 1030)
Edited Sep 1, 2003 4:29 pm

Hey Tim,

<Middle-aged Harry Potter fan> I guess you're planning on living a long time... (I'm in the same boat, don't worry.)

I agree with you that Harry connects with her because he could just as easily be Loony Harry, he is just not sure what to make of her willingness to accept that. I think she will help him to accept himself and get over this anger and bitterness that he has.



Gina R Snape - Sep1, 2003 3:39 pm (#6 of 1030)

Well, I think first of all, throughout most of OoP the wizarding world thought Harry was Loony Harry.

I really liked Luna, and I think she brings a couple of things to Harry which his other friends don't. The first is a certain amount of trust in the world, or at least in the idea that you don't always have to charge off into battle when there are other ways of dealing with things. Secondly, I think she offers Harry a kind of spirituality. She sees/believes in/hears things related to spiritual things. Hermione, in contrast, can't or won't. Hermione is concrete and factual. Luna and Harry share being able to see the thestrals and hearing the voices beyond the veil. She lost her mother, like Harry did. But she has found a way to be ok with it. Harry can learn from her loss. She comforts and accepts thngs in him others don't. And, sometimes you just need that. No proof of something existing, or way of explaining, or joking the problem away, or even fighting. Just being. Luna is very much that kind of person.

Oh, and I like Luna's choices in accessorizing--butterbeer caps and radish earrings sound cool!



Brave ol' Neville - Sep1, 2003 6:23 pm (#7 of 1030)

I think there is as difinate romance coming in the 6th book. At the end Harry felt sorry for her and understood how she felt. I think her role in the next book will be a big one. She it seems she can comfort and understand Harry better than anyone else. And at the time Harry needs this because Sirius is dead.



rettoP yrraH - Sep1, 2003 8:06 pm (#8 of 1030)

Any one notice the connection between Lunas eyes and the Mr. Ollivanders eyes? Both are large staring unblinking. If you use the path that Ollie is a seer why not have that in Luna too? Seems eyes have a lot to do with the seer bit and the occumalcy bit. eg. When snape occulitizez Harry all Harry has in focus is Snapes eyes, When Moody v.1.Barty jr. Puts the curse on Harry in GoF he says its in the eyes that you can tell if he is fighting the curse off.



OkieAngel - Sep1, 2003 8:36 pm (#9 of 1030)
Edited by Denise P. Sep 2, 2003 10:14 am

I'm a a big fan of Loony Luna's, as anyone who has read the 'ship thread is well aware of. I agree that she adds something to the group that has been missing. She has a faith in the the unbelievable that is refreshing. Remember, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen...

Edit: I edited this, if you have a question about why and what, please email me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Haggis and Irn Bru - Sep 2, 2003 12:09 pm (#10 of 1030)

I agree that Loona is a little unusual but she is a refreshing change from Hermys rules and facts. I think that people will repeatedly underestimate her because of her reputation. She managed to be practically unscathed in the MOM. Maybee she was good at ducking or is more skilled than we thought. I think in the next book she will be a cental character and may be able to get through to Harry when others cant esp when speaking about death and things. Re Mr Olivander and his eyes. Well he seems to remember every single wand that he sells. Maybee Luna will have an amazing memory as well.



Professor Kosh - Sep 2, 2003 5:21 pm (#11 of 1030)

I think I'm in the minority here, but I'm not convinced Luna is due for much of a bigger role. While I concede that she did help Harry in OoP, she just seems to be too much of a crackpt to be taken seriously for too long. Yes, she does see 'outside the framework', but she also seems willing to deny anything that fits inside it. She is too disconnected with everyday reality to make much of an emotional connection with Harry, or have a larger role in the upcoming war.



Olivia Wood - Sep 2, 2003 5:27 pm (#12 of 1030)

JKR can't just cut her out, though. I think her role will be at the very least as big as Nevilles was in the first four books.



Nephthys - Sep 2, 2003 6:30 pm (#13 of 1030)

Could Luna have a connection to Lupin? Both do have names relating to the moon. And then there is the folkloric belief that sleeping in moonlight makes you crazy, hence the word lunatic.



S.E. Jones - Sep 2, 2003 6:47 pm (#14 of 1030)

I think that last comment more just proves why JK named her Luna then showing a connection to Lupin. There are quite a few descriptions in common between her and Ollivander, though. Sam has already pointed out the large, unblinking eyes, but they also share the characteristic of having what are described as silver eyes. They both speak in rather soft, somewhat mystic voices. They both tend to stare as if they can read something that noone else can see. And, their personalities are rather similar, at least in my opinion. Also, there is the neat quote about Ollivander's "wide, pale eyes shining like moons" while in his shop, that quote came floating into my mind when I read the description of Luna in OotP for the first time.



Lamb - Sep 2, 2003 8:15 pm (#15 of 1030)

Not to throw a damper on the connection between Luna (whom I also liked) and Lupin, because they are both connected to the moon, but the names are not related. Lupin is a contraction of Lupine, or wolf-like.

I hope she plays a role in Book 6, but I can't see it being a romantic one- not with Harry, at least. I think she will be more of a prophet and will reveal information to Harry to help him in the struggle against Voldemort.



Hem Hem - Sep 2, 2003 9:27 pm (#16 of 1030)

If she becomes a seer, will anyone believe her predictions? Luna is so full of unbelievable stories that it would take months before anyone would realize she was teeling the truth.

Come to think of it, this has potential!



OkieAngel - Sep 2, 2003 9:39 pm (#17 of 1030)

I don't think Luna's stories are unbelievable. In fact most things she describes are real creatures, she just uses her own unique perspective to portray them. Is she an unusual character? Sure, but that's why we love the world of Harry Potter.



S.E. Jones - Sep 2, 2003 9:50 pm (#18 of 1030)

Just remember, she's not crazy, she's peculiarly unique!



Gred-n-Forge - Sep 2, 2003 9:54 pm (#19 of 1030)

And in a weird way, I think to a certain extent she will help keep Harry grounded in reality, instead of just alienating himself all the time.



OkieAngel - Sep 2, 2003 10:12 pm (#20 of 1030)

Hey, normal is just a setting on the dryer...

Wink



Sly Girl - Sep 2, 2003 11:23 pm (#21 of 1030)

As for Luna being in the rest of the series, count on it. JKR wanted to introduce her before this book, but didn't. She then realized she needed to make room for some important characters so that people didn't freak when they popped up in books 6 and 7. So book 5 got to be the place to do that. Luna will very likely play an important part.



Jesspy - Sep 3, 2003 1:02 am (#22 of 1030)
Edited Sep 3, 2003 2:02 am

I think Luna is similar to my sister. From childhood my sister has cultivated the belief in everyone that she is very thick. This was because she saw me "the smart one" of the family, how hard I had to work. Her agenda was to get out of doing work. I agree that Luna has cultivated her wacky appearance and personality so that she can use it to her advantage now and later on. There is always bonuses about living on the fringe of accepted society. Why are there so many greenies, ferals, punks and bogans in the greater population if there isn't some advantage to being different. Luna does add a different dimension to the book. Strays away from the norm and gives harry someone deeper than ron and hermione to talk to. Sorry if you doin't understand Australian slang



Sinister Kittens - Sep 3, 2003 2:10 am (#23 of 1030)

I don't think people necessarily see her as "thick" - she didn't fool the Sorting Hat, after all she is in Ravenclaw. She just seems to see things from a different perspective to the majority of people. Whilst her unshakeable beliefs in all things odd would put alot of people off getting to know her, I think she has inherited the ability to be herself from the environment she has grown up in. I agree with you Jesspy about Luna adding a different (and I think necessary) dimension. After all, which one of us wouldn't just love the chance to be absolutely yourself and wear those Radish earings with pride? (OK so i'm kidding about the radish earings thing)



Olivia Wood - Sep 3, 2003 7:30 am (#24 of 1030)

You know, it's strange, but I go to a magnet Art School, and it's the sort of place where going to school with a 5 inch lime green mohawk is considered the norm, so I know a lot of people who would be comsidered a lot more 'weird' than Luna is. My first thoughts upon reading her weren't that she was particularly odd, rather than that this was exactly the sort of person I'd like to meet, maybe talk philosophy with... Smile Anyway, my point is that she's not as crazy as she looks when juxtaposed with Hermione.



OkieAngel - Sep 3, 2003 11:11 am (#25 of 1030)
Edited Sep 3, 2003 12:13 pm

Well, I think she's great, as I've posted before in this thread. It never fails to send me into stitches when she and Hermy don't quite see eye to eye on a subject, yet Luna is unwavering in what she believes. She's a good opposite to Hermione, being as she's (I think) every bit as clever and witty, just in an unorthodox way. I was also very impressed by Ginny for introducing her into the group, and defending her when necessary.



haymoni - Sep 4, 2003 11:18 am (#26 of 1030)

I want to know what secret things are in the Quibbler when you read it upside down.



timrew - Sep 4, 2003 1:34 pm (#27 of 1030)

I think it's just the answer to some quiz that Luna's reading, haymoni.



Prefect Marcus - Sep 4, 2003 2:10 pm (#28 of 1030)

Luna is my most favorite new character. I suspect it is because she is so unflappable. She takes life as it comes.

One thing that Rowling snuck in and left hanging was that comment of Luna's near the end about how her belongings always find their way back to her. It was worded very carefully. It was not that people return them. It was that the belongings come back.

I am waiting for Rowling to expound on that.



Sly Girl - Sep 4, 2003 2:37 pm (#29 of 1030)

Maybe Luna is a human magnet of sorts?

That line stood out to me too, though. Not sure what it means. I think Luna's strongest characteristic is that she believes first and questions later. As opposed to Hermione, who questions first and then believes, after she's exhausted every avenue.



OkieAngel - Sep 4, 2003 4:41 pm (#30 of 1030)
Edited Sep 4, 2003 5:42 pm

Hey Sly, you got a new pic...very cool!

As for Luna's things, I think she takes it all in stride with her usual "Don't worry, be loony" outlook on life.



St. Mana - Sep 4, 2003 5:30 pm (#31 of 1030)

Luna reminds me of me. She dosn't give a care what people think of her. She does her own thing. Luna's awesome.



Lenka - Sep 5, 2003 12:20 am (#32 of 1030)

Latelly, I've been studying for exams and I caught myself doing a Luna. I would walk into a room with a misty look in my eyes, or my mum had to call my name five time before I answered - and then I'd say something that made no sense at all....

It was a cool feeling, just floating about.... I'm beginning to like Luna....



Denise S. - Sep 5, 2003 4:32 am (#33 of 1030)

I'm hoping the Luna will be part of the "force" (or whatever) that will help to bring the houses (at least Gryffindor and Ravenclaw) together. A fairly big deal was made out of this inter-house unity, and I'd like to see it actually happen (as much as it would be possible to accomplish in only two years).



Harold Pinta - Sep 5, 2003 10:27 am (#34 of 1030)

Luna is HRH's link to ravenclaw, she is quirky, but also brave. And since Ravenclaw is (the learning house) she is keen on a lot of subjects, even if those subject seems ludicrous to others. I see her already as a part of the group for some reason.



Gabrielle D - Sep 5, 2003 11:18 am (#35 of 1030)
Edited Sep 5, 2003 12:18 pm

I like the idea that Luna is a seer... maybe that is why she came along to the MoM, to keep an eye on Harry.



S.E. Jones - Sep 5, 2003 12:56 pm (#36 of 1030)

You know Lenka, that's an interesting observation. Maybe Luna's so "spacey" because she is constantly thinking about things and having ideas.... We've always heard that Hermione is the brightest in her year, I wonder if the same is true of Luna?



fidelio - Sep 5, 2003 1:26 pm (#37 of 1030)

I don't know that Hermione's the most imaginative--and there's a difference between the sort of intelligence Hermione has, which is more analytical in nature, and the creative sort. Luna may not be getting the highest grades, but she may one of the most intelligent and creative in her year even so. Creativity implies a certain amount of open-mindedness, and people who don't realize what's going on may write this off as mere spaciness. If you're putting a lot of your mental power into looking at things from new angles and coming up with new solutions and ideas, you may have less to put into presenting a conventional appearance. Or, you may prefer to save it for what looks more important to you, rather than what's important to other people.



Hem Hem - Sep 5, 2003 2:33 pm (#38 of 1030)

Maybe Luna could follow in her mother's footsteps and use her creative ability to invent a new spell? That seems to be the sort of intelligence Luna has.



Jenny M. - Sep 5, 2003 3:49 pm (#39 of 1030)

I think Luna has a lot to teach Harry - perhaps that which is most relevant to his life right now is the ability to be secure in who you are despite the opinions of others.



Fawkesy Lady - Sep 9, 2003 10:47 am (#40 of 1030)

I agree that Luna will play an important role in the upcoming books. Past messages mentioned Luna's unblinking eyes. It makes me think of Trelawney's eye's through her glasses. Perhaps Luna might be related or may offer a prophecy too.



holly - Sep 9, 2003 11:07 am (#41 of 1030)

I believe the Lovegoods were mentioned in book 4,when the group was preparing to use the portkey (boot) to go to the world cup. Either Mr. Weasley or Cedric's dad asked if they were waiting on anyone else in the area. One or the other stated that the Lovegoods were not going. So, I guess that the Lovegoods live near the Weasleys.



haymoni - Sep 9, 2003 11:53 am (#42 of 1030)

Lovegoods - plural - just Luna and her Dad? We know her mother is dead - any siblings??



Griffin - Sep 10, 2003 11:56 am (#43 of 1030)
Edited Sep 10, 2003 12:58 pm

Has anyone wondered:

What was the spell Luna's mother was performing when she died?

Was Luna just observing, helping, participating or the subject? I know that she was probably too young to help with the spell.

Even if she was not a part of the spell and was just observing, was there some side effects, or fall-out to the spell that affected Luna?

PS. Thanks Holly, I had forgotten all about that passage in GoF.



Vicky Leery - Sep 10, 2003 1:02 pm (#44 of 1030)
Edited Sep 10, 2003 2:03 pm

First of all, I want to make a point about the "Seer" theory. I think we ought to first define what exactly a "Seer" is before we go around saying that people might be one.

My theory is that a Seer is simply someone who makes prophesies, rather than someone who somehow "knows" the future or does divination. We know from the prophesy at the end of PoA how they work: the Seer goes into a trance and spews out a bunch of words about what's to come, them wakes up with no memory of what had just happened. My friend Jasmine came up with a supplemental theory: that if the Seer knows s/he is a Seer, they can no longer make prophesies, which would explain why Dumbledore never told Trelawney about the prophesy, unless he really did and she's just acting, but that's a different discussion.

Keeping that theory in mind, if Luna Lovegood is a Seer, it's very unlikely that it would have any effect on her behavior. It may, however, contribute to her reputation as "loony."

Anyway, I think Luna's just a little strange, and doesn't have any hidden powers of great significance. If she becomes an important character, it will be because she's a good friend to Harry and perhaps contributes a unique perspective to the fight against Voldy and company.



S.E. Jones - Sep 10, 2003 2:31 pm (#45 of 1030)

"We know from the prophesy at the end of PoA how they work: the Seer goes into a trance and spews out a bunch of words about what's to come, them wakes up with no memory of what had just happened."

I disagree with this statement. I think this is only true for "latent seers", they have the power to divine but can't freely access it. People keep making comparisons between Sybil and Cassandra which leads me to believe that the latter divined in a different way. I think she could remember her predictions and did have a sixth sense. Hm, maybe we should start a Seer thread...?

As far as Luna. I get the feeling that she's an only child, somehow, but it would be very interesting to see if she has any other siblings. I wonder if they'd be as "looney" as her or if they'd only be slightly quirky....



Nathan Taylor - Sep 12, 2003 12:01 pm (#46 of 1030)

I know this is the Luna thread and not the Neville one, but I noticed people early on in this thread were talking about how Luna was an outsider and could help Harry cope with the same. Does anyone else see Neville as an outsider? Sort of the kid who's not really that talented (or coordinated), and people are friends with him, but not in the same way as they're friends with other people.



Sly Girl - Sep 12, 2003 12:03 pm (#47 of 1030)

Nathan, I think your particular question would be better asked on the Neville thread, you can delete this post and re post it on Neville.



Nathan Taylor - Sep 12, 2003 2:45 pm (#48 of 1030)

Well, I meant it as an extension of an earlier topic: Perhaps Harry will be spending more and more time with Luna and Neville, and less and less with Ron and Hermione. This would make sense, if Ron and Hermione finally wised up to each other and wanted to spend time together without Harry.



Olivia Wood - Sep 12, 2003 2:52 pm (#49 of 1030)

I could see Harry complaining about that.



haymoni - Sep 15, 2003 5:03 am (#50 of 1030)

Harry found comfort talking to Luna. He also got his first taste of life without Ron & Hermione, as they took on their prefect duties.

Maybe it's time to make his circle of friends a bit larger. Luna & Neville would be logical as they would understand some of Harry's pain. I could see Neville going off the deep end a bit, trying to avenge his parents. Luna, on the other hand, may be more grounding (that's scary) for Harry.


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Post  Mona on Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:34 am



Vicky Leery - Sep 15, 2003 3:42 pm (#51 of 1030)

That's a good point. Each book has opened Harry's world a bit wider: the first book was mainly about Harry's teachers and friends, the second about the whole school. The third involved the whole wizarding community in Britain, and the fourth was international. I wondered how Harry's world could get any bigger, and now I realize that the next step is to bring more people into his close personal life.



St. Mana - Sep 16, 2003 5:12 pm (#52 of 1030)
Edited by Denise P. Sep 16, 2003 6:27 pm

Luna is a great character.



Lenka - Sep 17, 2003 12:10 am (#53 of 1030)

Yeah, I agree. She is!

Long Live Luna Lovegood!



Fawkes Forever - Sep 17, 2003 12:16 am (#54 of 1030)
Edited Sep 17, 2003 1:17 am

I think Luna is a breath of fresh air to the group.... so what if she's a loony, shes fun!

Oh & this is probably for the 'ships' thread, but I'm goning to say it anyways... but she does have a little 'thing' for 'Ronald'

(no wonder Hermione isn't too keen on her)



Olivia Wood - Sep 17, 2003 2:55 pm (#55 of 1030)

I agree about the Ron thing, but remember the nargles in the Mistletoe? I loved that part, it made up for Cho. It's possible she just acts that way with everybody, and not just Ron.



Hem Hem - Sep 17, 2003 5:10 pm (#56 of 1030)

Luna treats people as closer friends than they actually are. She thinks that someone who will listen to something she says must be interested in what she has to say, that someone who is willing to be friendly with her must be a true friend in reality. Hence, she probably considers Ron to be one of her fairly close friends, while Ron thinks of her as simply a girl he knows.

I don't think Luna's actions towards Ron (singing "Weasley is our King," laughing at his joke, staring at him, etc.) can be interpreted as anything other than typical Luna behavior, and I don't think she noticed that what she was doing.



Caitlin McCoy - Sep 18, 2003 12:14 pm (#57 of 1030)

Lord knows it's quite likely that the girl stares at nine out of ten people and isn't aware that it makes her stand out.



Gina R Snape - Sep 19, 2003 9:21 am (#58 of 1030)

And I think if the Slytherins had started a catchy song about anyone else, she would've been singing that. I think it was nothing to do with the fact that the song was about Ron.



haymoni - Sep 19, 2003 9:25 am (#59 of 1030)

Luna did tell Ron that she wouldn't have minded not dancing at the Yule Ball - fishing for an invite next time?

They also live near each other so she may have heard about the Weasleys long before coming to Hogwarts - if the reference to the Lovegoods in GOF is actually Luna's family.



Susurro Notities - Sep 19, 2003 9:35 am (#60 of 1030)
Edited by Sep 19, 2003 10:36 am

Caitlin McCoy, I adore your comment. So sassy! Makes me want to hear you in person. I'll bet you have perfected the delivery of sarcastic comments. You are of course right. Luna seems excessively unaware of how she is seen by others. By the way where does "I'm sorry to tell you/The tides have changed/I'm no longer the girl you once knew" come from?

Hem Hem, You have described a person who has never had a close friend. How sad for Luna.

I think JKR has plans for Luna. She strikes me as someone who knows much more than anyone will give her credit for. We have already seen that her comments are disregarded by the others and yet she has often been right.

This is a farfetched idea but is there any connection between Luna and Lupin? They are both moony in name and her behavior is moony.



S.E. Jones - Sep 19, 2003 10:00 am (#61 of 1030)
Edited Sep 19, 2003 11:06 am

I think it is her family. I find it strange, though, that wizarding families can live fairly near each other, or at least be the only other wizards within a 20 mile radius, and still have no or little contact. Like the way the twins didn't seem to know Cedric and Ron didn't seem to know Luna.

Gina, I agree. Also, didn't Nearly-headless Nick also float along humming "Weasley is Our King"? And he's the Gryffindor ghost....

Susurro Notities, I agree that JK has more in store for Luna than just being a vehicle for getting Harry's story to the WW. I don't think there is any connection between Luna and Lupin. I do think there is a connection between Luna and Ollivander, though, in their descriptions (see post #14) as well as in their outward personalities....



fidelio - Sep 19, 2003 10:07 am (#62 of 1030)

I wonder if the Weasley children didn't seem to know their neighbors fairly well because the Weasleys are, en masse, pretty much sufficient unto themselves. They don't need to go and look for people to play with--there are plenty at home. I suspect the adults know each other pretty well--Amos Diggory seemed pretty familiar with both Arthur and Molly--remember her handing him the toast when he called Arthur via the Floo Network about MEM's little problem? As for the Lovegoods--Amos Diggory and Arthur Weasley both work for the MoM--and Mr. Lovegood, as editor of the Quibbler, seems to have it in for the MoM, and all its works. So they might not cultivate his acquaintance because they prefer to avoid too much trouble at work. He sounds like he's weirder than snake shoes, as well, and both Arthur and Amos Diggory seem pretty down to earth, as wizards go.



Becky Palmer - Sep 20, 2003 2:52 am (#63 of 1030)

Luna doesn't seem to be all there mentally, yet she seems to me to be in touch with what is true and what matters - she appears to have deep spirituality and isn't concerned with what the rest of the world thinks of her. That makes her truly unique and one of a kind. Her eyes, which are described as wide and protuberant, well last night I was outside and had the great joy of seeing a beautiful tawny owl perched on my fence, and it had the same kind of eyes. Perhaps Luna's eyes symbolise her wisdom - owls are described as being wise, are they not? I am kind of rambling here, it's been a long day and I'm rather tired, but from what I can remember of Snape's first lesson in PS, when he discusses the drought of peace, which calms anxiety and agitation and of which the key ingredient was moonstone, and Luna's name is connected with the moon (I believe "Luna" means moon in Spanish). Maybe Luna will sort of serve as a source of peace to Harry? JKR referenes to Luna reading the paper upside down could mean that yes, Luna is looking for answers to her Quibbler quizzes, yet it could also mean that she (Luna) sees things from another angle or perspective, which would be no less clearer perhaps than how Hermione sees things, just.............different.



Madame Librarian - Sep 20, 2003 5:01 am (#64 of 1030)

Becky Palmer, I think you've made some insightful points about Luna. I like the "sees things from another angle...." comment. When Luna is first introduced to us, I was particularly struck by the upside down newspaper business and felt immediately that it was more than simply her attempt to figure out a puzzle; something that will figure later in the plot. I was also struck by that sad/funny scene at the end of the school year where she tells the grieving Harry that her things are missing, but they'll find their way back to her. She adds something like "...they always do...." That little scene was somehow so sad, yet I think Luna was saying something cryptic that was meant to comfort Harry. For some reason I found that very touching.

It seems like Luna is a oddball, nerd-type character who others pick on (even the "good" kids treat her a bit cruelly sometimes with teasing comments), but she seems to just brush it off. I hope JKR developes this character by letting us inside Luna's thinking/feeling. She is both a stereotype (the oddball) and an unusual character.



Weeny Owl - Sep 20, 2003 8:56 am (#65 of 1030)
Edited Sep 20, 2003 9:58 am

I've been thinking about how Luna is called "Loony." In PoA, Peeves was calling Lupin something such as "Moony, moony, LOONY, Moony."

It started me wondering if Lupin and Luna will have a connection somehow where with her unique personality and talents, she might not be a catalyst or something that would help Lupin as far as the werewolf thing.

I'm not talking about a romantic relationship or even a friendship, but maybe with her father, while they're looking for all of those unusual creatures and other odd things, she might hit on just the right object or spell or something we've never even heard of that could keep Lupin grounded during a full moon or even be a cure for his werewolfism.

That does sound incredibly farfetched, but the entire moon aspect I find interesting.

Also, with the last name of Lovegood, I think our Luna has much more going on inside that might prove important in the last two books. Love is one thing Voldie cannot tolerate or understand, and romance aside, I think Luna might provide something necessary to Harry that would help him defeat Voldie.

Madame Librarian, I also found that scene about her things sad/funny. Her things return to her, but how? People give them back, she's more powerful than we know and has enchanted them?



Susurro Notities - Sep 20, 2003 9:58 am (#66 of 1030)

Weeny Owl,

I wondered the same thing. On Sept 19 I wrote "This is a farfetched idea but is there any connection between Luna and Lupin? They are both moony in name and her behavior is moony." Then I found that my thought wasn't the first on the subject:

Nephthys wrote on Sept. 2 "Could Luna have a connection to Lupin? Both do have names relating to the moon. And then there is the folkloric belief that sleeping in moonlight makes you crazy, hence the word lunatic."

You have gone us both one better with your connecting Lupin's werewolf issue with Luna's fascination with unusual creatures.

Your observation about her last name and Voldemort is also thought provoking.

I don't know what to make of all of this but I certainly will be turning it over.



Weeny Owl - Sep 22, 2003 8:31 am (#67 of 1030)

Susurro Notities - "I wondered the same thing. On Sept 19 I wrote "This is a farfetched idea but is there any connection between Luna and Lupin? They are both moony in name and her behavior is moony." Then I found that my thought wasn't the first on the subject:

Nephthys wrote on Sept. 2 "Could Luna have a connection to Lupin? Both do have names relating to the moon. And then there is the folkloric belief that sleeping in moonlight makes you crazy, hence the word lunatic."

It's been ages since September 2, but I should have remembered reading your post, Susurro. (A blushing Weeny Owl is a strange thing to behold.)

I really can't imagine a little thing like someone being a werewolf would faze Luna. When people are dashing about madly and feeling all sorts of intense emotions, Luna continues with her serene ways. We know she feels deeply about some things, such as her mother dying, but she doesn't react to situations the way most people would. She hardly reacts at all until she says something profound.

She said that the group could fly to the Ministry, and while she was being told how wrong she was, the Thestrals appeared. I think she sees things no one else can, and I don't mean that she's psychic or anything like that, but that her take on possible solutions is totally outside the box.



Gina R Snape - Sep 22, 2003 8:52 am (#68 of 1030)

Oh, I find it very interesting that Luna and Lupin both seem capable of remaining calm during a crisis much more so than most characters in the books.



Susurro Notities - Sep 22, 2003 9:15 am (#69 of 1030)
Edited by Sep 22, 2003 10:16 am

I am sure you are right Weeny Owl. I would think Lupin's werewolf status would draw Luna to him. I have been trying to find a way to explain that although Luna is wacky she is often right. You have captured that in your statement: She hardly reacts at all until she says something profound. [By the way if you can get a picture of an owl blushing I would love to see it! :-)]

Yes Gina R Snape they do both seem able to retain their cool also Luna and Lupin are both a bit apart from their school chums.



Carla Hodge - Sep 22, 2003 1:05 pm (#70 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2003 2:06 pm

I think the chapter in which Luna is introduced, entitled 'Luna Lovegood' (may be an indication of her importance, I haven't checked significance of chapter titles) is very important as a symbol of Harry's world at the beginning of the book, and the change that he is aware of at the end. Let me explain.

Harry is divided from the friends he has held firmly to himself for the last five years, into a group he is embarrassed to be with - Luna, Neville and Ginny (I say Ginny as she is the best friend's younger sister, there's very few 'cool' points in school for hanging around with younger siblings in my experience). Cho's introduction makes this embarrassment more acute.

Harry also has to endure Draco in a 'superior' position, making his own lack of promotion (for want of a better word) to prefect more humiliating. Note that Malfoy and Cho appear after the reintroduction of Ron and Hermione into the carriage.

The three people who are with Harry at the beginning of the chapter are the three who induce feelings of shame and sympathy in him. Ginny when she makes him realise she has been possessed by Voldemort and telling him not to be moody/rude/a bit of a git; Neville because he endures the pain of his parents without all the attention and sympathy that Harry gets, Harry believes that Neville should receive more (Book Four, I think); Luna because she has dealt with the death of her own mother, moved on and made him feel more comfortable within himself.

The people who are introduced at the end of the chapter are people Harry pushes away at the end of the book - he feels uncomfortable in the presence of Ron and Hermione. Cho and Malfoy are simply pre-Sirius/prophesy, they are not important any more.

There is a significant divide between Neville/Luna/Ginny and Cho/Malfoy stages of this chapter and ultimately at the end of the book. I believe Luna, Ginny and Neville will become important to Harry because he shares feelings and emotions with these three which he hasn't to such a level with Ron and Hermione. I'm not saying they will be pushed away entirely but don't share such a bond. The group at the beginning of the chapter are outsiders to some degree, Ron and Hermione are more the 'norm' if you like.

Luna's introduction won't be just for the benefit of the DA, or just for an amusing head up in the clouds character. She is part of this group which I belive Harry will relate to more and more. Whether she will make a significant contribution to the war I have no idea, but I believe she will make an impact on Harry's emotions and way of coping with death.

(Terribly long and dull, very sorry, haven't written an essay for a good few months and now I'm getting itchy typing fingers :-))



Madame Librarian - Sep 22, 2003 1:19 pm (#71 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2003 2:21 pm

Carla, a great deal of what you said is an excellent analysis of the character developments we should expect as the story moves on. Another point in favor of Luna, Neville and Harry becoming more of a threesome is that it would be a natural way to clear some "space" for a 'ship between Ron and Hermione to grow without leaving poor, unattached Harry out of the loop.

I think all 5 of these key characters will still be the prime movers of the plot, so what you proffered will be a subtle shift of the so-called sociogram at H-warts.

Oh, oh, we've drifted a tad off topic. So if others wish to comment on a group relationship issue, maybe we should, right away, move it to its own thread or to the 'ship 'ship thread.

Ciao. Barb



S.E. Jones - Sep 22, 2003 1:44 pm (#72 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2003 2:44 pm

No Barb, you haven't strayed too far off topic. And Carla, in the immortal words of Ron Weasley, that was bloody brilliant.

I've been thinking about Luna's comment at the end of OotP about how her things always find their way back somehow. Everyone seems to have their own opinion of what JK was trying to say there so I thought I'd offer mine. Some think that Luna will be able to help Harry communicate with Sirius somehow, I think that she will simply be able to help him come to terms with the loss of Sirius. I found this line, especially in light of Sirius's death and her comment about the dead being just out of reach, to be very similar to something else JK has said in the books, "Do you think the dead we loved ever truely leave us? You think that we don't recall them more clearly than ever in times of great trouble? Your father is alive in you, Harry, and shows himself most plainly when you have need of him..." (PoA22). In other words, even though they leave us physically, they always find their way back to us, somehow. I think this was more what JK was leaning towards....

Comments?



Caitlin McCoy - Sep 22, 2003 6:27 pm (#73 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2003 7:32 pm

Susurro Notities: The words I'm sorry to tell you/The tides have changed/I'm not the girl you once knew are from a poem I wrote. To read it all (Worldcrossing thought it was personal information and wouldn't let me post it) you need to go to my homepage link...it's actually my free open diary. The poem is in the entry "Poetry", currently 2nd from the top.

S.E. Jones: I like where you're going with that idea. It seems plausible that there will be something else.



Carla Hodge - Sep 23, 2003 9:46 am (#74 of 1030)

Maybe we should move on to Luna's profound "Wit without measure is man's greatest treasure" -

What the...I can't think why she would say that phrase at that particular moment, unless it is something the Sorting Hat has said about Ravenclaw (I'm afraid I can't check, my books are now in a box wating to be moved). I fleetingly thought that maybe it was something dropped in by JKR, hinting about Luna's character. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that Luna might have developed this rather dreamy outwards appearance and therefore her wit cannot be measured...I dunno, I'll bounce off you guys :-)

I think the Luna/Hermione comparison is interesting...Luna has proved herself pretty brave in the MoM battle with the DA - why is she in Ravenclaw? Her intelligence isn't as apparent to Harry (remebering that this is his viewpoint) as Hermione's is..hmm...



AlbusRiddle - Sep 23, 2003 10:23 am (#75 of 1030)

The phrase is "Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure."

I think that's likely the Ravenclaw motto. I mean, if they had an official motto, that would be it, wouldn't it?



Caitlin McCoy - Sep 23, 2003 11:24 am (#76 of 1030)
Edited Sep 23, 2003 12:24 pm

Yeah, that sounds about right.



Caitlin McCoy - Sep 23, 2003 3:15 pm (#77 of 1030)
Edited Sep 23, 2003 4:15 pm

OK, here's a new idea. Dumbledore tells Harry that there is a room in the Department of Mysteries that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more powerful and more terrible than death, than human intellegence, than human nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that you possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all...In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you. (pg. 843-844; American version)

In the DoM, when Sirius's knife gets melted in that selfsame door, Luna tries to tell Harry what she thinks might be in that room but Hermione waves her off. Wonder what she would have said had she been allowed to finish?

~Caitlin



::StinkerBell:: - Sep 23, 2003 3:20 pm (#78 of 1030)

"wit beyond measure..." I always thought that was most likly some thing the sorting hat said in her first year when she was being sorted. Its the kind of thing Hermione would do, remember the speaches she hears. talking about hermione... I think hermione dosen't like luna because luna does seem as inteligent as she is. Its just all the waffle about blibbering hornsnakles that make her seem to be more spaced out instead of smart.



fidelio - Sep 23, 2003 3:28 pm (#79 of 1030)

That and the radish earrings, the bottlecap necklace, and a few other little details. Of course, I was a lot like that at her age, too, so it's doesn't put me off as much as it does some folks.



::StinkerBell:: - Sep 23, 2003 3:44 pm (#80 of 1030)

Now that I think of it... luna does seem to remind myself of me when I was around 10. The kooky earrings, making my own necklaces out of what ever, wanting to believe in whatever. I did it to stand out, she dosen't know she stands out. Also, Luna reminds me of the extremely brilliant people in the would that get confused with crazy people. That they so smart, the little stuff doesn't matter to them.



Susurro Notities - Sep 23, 2003 7:07 pm (#81 of 1030)
Edited by Sep 23, 2003 8:09 pm

Yes she does remind me of someone who is brilliant. I think that Hermione doesn't like her because she is so unlike Hermione. Luna's floaty ways make it difficult for Hermione to understand that Luna is actually in Hermione's intellectual league. I don't think Hermione would dislike her if she could see how bright Luna is although she might still find the floatyness (I don't think that is a real word) annoying. In fact I think Hermione might welcome a female intellectual peer.

Caitlyn, I thought your poem did an excellent job of capturing the new found power of the young woman. I also thought there was an undercurrent of angst which seems to further capture young womenhood and gives the poem depth.



Caitlin McCoy - Sep 23, 2003 7:09 pm (#82 of 1030)

Why thank you! My visiting the Lexicon (along with some ridiculous emails from former high school friends) inspired me to write it. I'm glad you enjoyed it!

~Caitlin



Nox NotteTorrente - Sep 24, 2003 3:14 pm (#83 of 1030)

In the DoM, when Sirius's knife gets melted in that selfsame door, Luna tries to tell Harry what she thinks might be in that room but Hermione waves her off. Wonder what she would have said had she been allowed to finish?

~Caitlin

I thought Luna was thinking that this room contained the legendary Heliopaths that the Quibbler mentioned in an article. Something about Fudge's army of Heliopaths? Sorry, my books are AWOL right now.

Nox



Lenka - Sep 24, 2003 7:26 pm (#84 of 1030)

Well, I suppose we'll never know what Luna was going to say. Sad

And it's all Hermione's fault!!!

Smile just kidding.



OkieAngel - Sep 25, 2003 8:50 pm (#85 of 1030)

Ooooo, I like the Luna/Lupin connection ya'll have made. I can't wait until they meet. Wonder what she'll make of #12 GP if she ever gets initiated into the group that far? I'd love to see her go one on one with Mrs. Black.





MoaningMyrtle101 - Sep 28, 2003 3:12 pm (#86 of 1030)
Edited by Sep 28, 2003 4:12 pm

There's something sorta strange about the way Luna was injured in the Battle in the Department of Mysteries. Most witches and wizards are protected from Muggle injuries by their own magic (like when Neville bounces from his balcony, or when Hagrid says that "a car crash couldn't have killed Lily and James Potter", etc.), but Luna gets knocked out for about a half-hour to an hour because she was hit by a door. Why was she injured so badly? Shouldn't she have been protected?



Gryffin - Sep 28, 2003 6:22 pm (#87 of 1030)

When Luna told Harry that her Mother died experimenting with a Spell...One of my thoughts were that Maybe Luna is going to help Harry create a new Spell that will Kill Lord Voldemort.



Caitlin McCoy - Sep 29, 2003 3:21 pm (#88 of 1030)

I have come to the conclusion that Luna may become the exception that proves the rule. Also, in response to MoaningMyrtle101's statement/question, wasn't Luna hit by a spell from a Death Eater before she hit the door? Hitting the door was secondary, and the spell would likely have minimized her magical protection from the muggle sort of injury she obtained moments afterwards.

~Caitlin



St. Mana - Sep 29, 2003 3:54 pm (#89 of 1030)

I think Harry should go out with Luna. She's way cooler than that Cho ditz.



Hem Hem - Sep 29, 2003 4:08 pm (#90 of 1030)
Edited Sep 29, 2003 5:09 pm

St. Mana, Luna's love life can be discussed at the "'Ship, 'Ship" thread below. Ya know, we don't want the people who adamantly disagree wiht you to clutter up this thread! Anyways, if you check out that thread, I'm pretty sure there are people who support the Harry/Luna coupling. Check it out!



Expecto Joe - Sep 29, 2003 4:45 pm (#91 of 1030)

I have to agree with Kosh. I don't think Luna will be a big role in the coming books. The trio will stay together, and the supporting roles of Neville and Ginny will be enough to keep Harry with different personalities.

I must also add that I really didn't like her role in the book (which might explain my previously stated opinion). Other than her father's newspaper, and the death thing, I didn't really understand the point of her being around Harry so much. I originally thought that the reason she was there was because she was really Tonks in disguise keeping an eye on Harry, especially when she went with them to the MoM. That would've been cool.

Anyone know when the next book is expected?



Lenka - Sep 30, 2003 8:51 am (#92 of 1030)

I think Luna has a big role to play in the comming up books. After all, she has a whole chapter with her name on it. I'm sure she'll become important since the chapter where we meet her was titled "Luna Lovegood", not "mimblebus mibletonia" (badly misspelled, isn't it?) or "Stinksap" or something, which would certainly fit better.



Madame Librarian - Sep 30, 2003 9:13 am (#93 of 1030)

I for one like her a lot and would be hugely disappointed if she didn't have a role in the next 2 books. I think others would be, too.

Just like Neville, she's part of the crew that's going to support Harry. And, she's so intriguing, almost taking a "soothsayer" role. JKR put a lot of creative effort into her characterization; I'd be surprised if she didn't come back.

Ciao. Barb



Susurro Notities - Sep 30, 2003 9:14 am (#94 of 1030)

Luna is around Harry to give him a perspective he can't get from his other friends. Luna seems loopy at first but her observations often turn out to be correct. I think your right Lenka. I think we will see more of Luna.



Jenny M. - Sep 30, 2003 9:51 am (#95 of 1030)

It seems to me that Luna could very well become the Hogwarts world's champion for religion - not in a doctrinal/specific-creed sense, but in the sense of her obviously strong faith in things not easily explainable by the laws of science and magic.



mollis - Sep 30, 2003 10:02 am (#96 of 1030)
Edited by Sep 30, 2003 11:03 am

I too think that Luna will play an important role in the future books. I feel like she may provide Harry with the unorthodox point of view that may be essential to defeating Voldemort. He has enough of the traditional by-the-book views of Hermione and DD. I think that the traditional WW defences won't work this time. It has been said that love is the key to defeating Voldemort. Maybe Luna's unorthodox point-of-view will provide the method for using love to defeat Voldemort permanently.

(For the record, I don't think that Harry and Luna will fall in love, I just think maybe she will help him understand love in a new way.)



::StinkerBell:: - Sep 30, 2003 2:42 pm (#97 of 1030)

( I agree with you on the Harry/Luna thing Mollis) Luna had a major part in the 5th book. JK will not just forget about her, I think she will have just as large, or larger part in the next two books.



timrew - Sep 30, 2003 2:49 pm (#98 of 1030)

Read the last chapter of OOP, when Harry has talked to Nearly Headless Nick and then confronts Luna by the notice board.

She UNDERSTANDS him. He can connect with her. They have a lot in common.

I think Luna is going to become a major 'confidante' of Harry's in the last two books.

Things that he can't say to Hermione and Ron, I think Harry will say to Luna.

Just my two knuts......

BTW I don't regard this as a 'ship' thread. Confidante and romantic interest are two different things....



Sinister Kittens - Oct 1, 2003 12:55 am (#99 of 1030)

Hi Tim. I'm completely with you on this one. That is what I have been thinking. Harry will have alot to think and talk about and IMO Luna is just the right sort of character to discuss these deeper issues with.



Fawkes Forever - Oct 1, 2003 1:40 am (#100 of 1030)
Edited Oct 1, 2003 2:40 am

I agree, sometimes when you lose someone close to you, it's easier talking to someone outside your group! I think she'll be someone Harry can talk to, especially about death. Oh & she might have a few theories on what's behind the veil

She thinks outside the box & doesn't judge people either..... which brings a nice balance to the group! I for one want to see her character developed in the next two books!

EDIT: Woohoo, I'm the 100th post....


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mollis - Oct 1, 2003 6:57 am (#101 of 1030)

I completely agree with you timrew. I think it is very likely that it will be Luna and not Hermione or Ron that Harry tells first about the prophecy. And he will probably continue to confide in her through Book 6. When you are grieving or really troubled by something, it is much easier to talk to a stranger than your firends. Eventually, Harry will begin to accept everything that he saw and heard in Book 5, and only then will he be able to tell his closest friends.

Luna will hopefully be able to provide Harry with the support and friendship that he is going to need, once he is able to talk about the prophecy. I think that if he tells her about the prophecy first, she will be cemented into the rest of the series (if she wasn't already). Although, IMO, that would make her a good candidate for being killed in the coming battles. She will be close enough to Harry for it to hurt him, but not so close that it will destroy him.

Oh! If Harry does confide in her, DE's could try to crucio the info about the prophecy out of her. That could be why she's killed. Harry is too well protected, but nobody's watching Luna...



Neville Longbottom - Oct 1, 2003 7:06 am (#102 of 1030)

I don't think Luna is the right person to talk to about the prophecy. If Harry wants to talk about losses, than Luna (or Neville, because both lost somebody dear) might be the right one, but not about the prophecy. In fact I think she is the least likely out of the six to talk with Harry about the prophecy. Harry knows Ron and Hermione best, and he probably can identify himself more with Ginny and Neville, who also had to suffer because of Voldemort. The only identification point he has with Luna (as far as we know), is the Death thing.



Susurro Notities - Oct 1, 2003 7:35 am (#103 of 1030)

At the end of OoP Harry wanders about searching for comfort/peace/someone to ease his pain. He doesn't find it with Ron and Hermione, Hagrid, or Nearly Headless Nick yet he connects with Luna. That brief encounter assures us that Luna will be important to Harry in the future. I wonder if she will keep his secrets or will she willingly or unwillingly betray him?



Fawkes Forever - Oct 1, 2003 7:49 am (#104 of 1030)

I think that scene showed us Harry's humility coming back out. When he feels sorry for Luna..... we see he's thinking about other people again... This is a distinct move away from his attitude in most of OotP, and that he's grown up a bit!



popkin - Oct 2, 2003 8:55 am (#105 of 1030)

This seems as good a place as any to post these thoughts as any. If you disagree, I'll move them somewhere else.

When the Lovegoods are introduced in GOF (p. 73 US, chap. Portkey), we learn which wizard families live close to the Weasleys:

"'No, the Lovegoods have been there for a week already, and the Fawcetts couldn't get tickets' said Mr. Diggory. 'There aren't anymore of us in this area, are there?' 'Not that I know of,' said Mr. Weasley."

The Diggorys, Weasleys, Fawcetts and Lovegoods are all from the same general area.

On p. 72, we also learn that the Diggorys do not live all that close to the Weasleys. Mr. Diggory says that he and Cedric "had to get up at two" to get to the portkey on time. Mr. Weasley says that his family lives just the "other side of that village there", so you can almost see their home from the meeting place. "Daybreak was drawing closer" when the Weasley's left their house (p. 69), so we can surmise that they rose considerably later than two AM.

So, the Lovegoods might not live in the same village as the Weasleys either, but they are one of the four wizard families that live the closest to the Weasleys. The Lovegoods and Weasleys might get together occasionally, but it could be troublesome transportation-wise to get the Weasley clan to the Lovegood home. Also, with a single father in charge of their home, the Lovegoods might be less likely to invite the Weasleys over. However, it seems reasonable to guess that the Weasleys might occasionally invite their wizarding neighbors over for a barbeque or something.

Another point of interest, on p. 70 Mr. Weasley says that the "people with cheaper tickets have to arrive two weeks beforehand" at the campsite near the Quiditch Worldcup to avoid muggle sightings of throngs of witches and wizards coming into the area. Since the Lovegoods arrived a week before the Weasleys (who were given great tickets), we can guess that the Lovegoods are not very poor, but are of modest means. Since the Fawcetts could not get tickets, perhaps they are of even more modest means, and could be in about the same economic class as the Weasleys.

These thoughts have been floating around in my head for a while, and I wanted to put them down. Do with them what you will.



popkin - Oct 2, 2003 9:56 am (#106 of 1030)

About the trio and how Luna (and Neville and Ginny) might fit with them in the future: When they went to the MOM and battled death eaters together, their friendship had to have been sealed even more firmly than when Harry, Ron and Hermione pitted themselves together against a full grown mountain troll. I don't think there's any question that Luna (and Neville and Ginny) will continue to play an important role in books six and seven.



Sly Girl - Oct 2, 2003 10:27 am (#107 of 1030)

>Since the Lovegoods arrived a week before the Weasleys (who were given great tickets), we can guess that the Lovegoods are not very poor, but are of modest means. Since the Fawcetts could not get tickets, perhaps they are of even more modest means, and could be in about the same economic class as the Weasleys<<

Not neccessarily. I mean, the Lovegoods could be comfortable, but could have opted to just get cheaper tickets or seats. Just because a family has money doesn't mean they have the best of everything. As for the Fawcetts, perhaps they were slow on the uptake and all the best sites were taken and they decided not to bother? I mean, I tried to get tickets to a concert coming to town and when I discovered all the good seats were taken I just didn't go. Doesn't mean I couldn't afford the tickets, just means I didn't want to sit in the nosebleeds. (which speaking of Quidditch, brings new meaning to that word)

I just don't think we can make assumptions about the welloffness of Luna's family based on a few sentences in GoF.



popkin - Oct 2, 2003 10:51 am (#108 of 1030)

There were other passages as well that made me think the Lovegoods were of modest means - not poor, but certainly not rich. I can't find them right now, but one was about the circulation of Luna's father's paper. Luna says something about how he doesn't really do it for the money - making me think there's not much money in it. Another was about their expedition to find the crumple horned snorkack. They will be able to take the vacation because of the unexpected windfall from the sale of the paper which contained Harry's interview.



Sly Girl - Oct 2, 2003 10:56 am (#109 of 1030)

Now see, I took the 'he doesn't do it for the money' line to mean, he didn't NEED to do it for the money, because he's got his own.

🤷 Different interpretations...



Hem Hem - Oct 2, 2003 5:03 pm (#110 of 1030)

And he doesn't pay contributing writers, he wants them to be motivated by the thrill of seeing their article in print...

I also interpreted that to mean that the Quibbler was a bit of a low-budget production. And if he makes a low-budget paper for a living, they're probably not rich. Also, Luna says that the money they made form the issue that sold out would enable them to go on a vacation to find Crumple-Horned Snorkacks. If they can afford to go on vacation, but only after the issue sells really well, they're probably lower-middle class.



Wendelin the Weird - Oct 11, 2003 1:18 am (#111 of 1030)

popkin, thanks so much for the Lovegood quotes!! I just posted some info in the Book 6 & 7 thread about some clues i found in interviews and I think this might add to what you have there.

popkin wrote: >When the Lovegoods are introduced in GOF (p. 73 US, chap. Portkey), we learn which wizard families live close to the Weasleys:

"'No, the Lovegoods have been there for a week already, and the Fawcetts couldn't get tickets' said Mr. Diggory. 'There aren't anymore of us in this area, are there?' 'Not that I know of,' said Mr. Weasley."

The Diggorys, Weasleys, Fawcetts and Lovegoods are all from the same general area.

On p. 72, we also learn that the Diggorys do not live all that close to the Weasleys. Mr. Diggory says that he and Cedric "had to get up at two" to get to the portkey on time. Mr. Weasley says that his family lives just the "other side of that village there", so you can almost see their home from the meeting place. "Daybreak was drawing closer" when the Weasley's left their house (p. 69), so we can surmise that they rose considerably later than two AM.

So, the Lovegoods might not live in the same village as the Weasleys either, but they are one of the four wizard families that live the closest to the Weasleys. The Lovegoods and Weasleys might get together occasionally, but it could be troublesome transportation-wise to get the Weasley clan to the Lovegood home. Also, with a single father in charge of their home, the Lovegoods might be less likely to invite the Weasleys over. However, it seems reasonable to guess that the Weasleys might occasionally invite their wizarding neighbors over for a barbeque or something.

Another point of interest, on p. 70 Mr. Weasley says that the "people with cheaper tickets have to arrive two weeks beforehand" at the campsite near the Quiditch Worldcup to avoid muggle sightings of throngs of witches and wizards coming into the area. Since the Lovegoods arrived a week before the Weasleys (who were given great tickets), we can guess that the Lovegoods are not very poor, but are of modest means. Since the Fawcetts could not get tickets, perhaps they are of even more modest means, and could be in about the same economic class as the Weasleys.

Okay, this is some of the interview material I found on a mysterious Weasley cousin who was supposed to have been a fairly major player in Book 4 but got cut due to a hole in the plot. Its a "she" and JKR really liked the character a lot and hoped to bring her back in some manner at a later time. If this character was Luna it would explain all of the references to the Lovegoods early in Book 4... it may have been a pre-introduction of her character for later in the book.

the quotes from DarkMark.com interviews: All from around time of GoF release

Last time we spoke you said there'd be a Weasley cousin. It didn't appear. You've deceived me!

It got pulled. Sorry about that. What happened on Book Four, and one of the reasons why it was easily the most difficult to write, which had absolutely nothing to do with Harry being famous or me being famous, was that for the first time my plan fell down. I got halfway through and realised there was a huge gaping plot hole. The two ends just didn't meet. It was entirely my own fault: I should have had the sense to go through it very carefully before I started writing. So I had to do an enormous amount of unpicking and in the process I'm afraid the Weasley cousin disappeared.

Will we see her again?

Possibly. I really like her as a character but it's quite a complex plot I'm dealing with so I'm not sure that she'll fit anywhere else. She'll be the "character that might have been."

New interview:

You said Ron's cousin was taken out of Book 4, and you developed Rita Skeeter more after that. Do you still think that it would have been more fun to keep her? Can you tell me anything about what she was going to be like?

JKR: Well, maybe I will use her in another book, so I don't want to talk about her too much. I had never "killed" a character before (in either sense) until Goblet of Fire, so that made writing the book a little more stressful!

I think its important that she mentions that writing the deaths in book 4 when talking about this character. Is it a cooincidence that Luna is in Book 5 and is helping Harry deal with death in a sense?



virgoddess1313 - Oct 11, 2003 8:20 am (#112 of 1030)

Maybe the cousin theory would explain why she seems to pay so much attention to Ron. But, all the same, you'd think that as close together as they seem to live, they would know about the relation and it would have been mentioned. Maybe that's just from the perspective of someone with a huge extended family that gets together a lot, though. : )



Dr Filibuster - Oct 11, 2003 9:05 am (#113 of 1030)

I don't think that Wendelin was saying that Luna is Ron's cousin. The cousin was planned for the 4th book but got scrapped.

It seems very likely (well spotted Wendelin) that Luna Lovegood is some form of similar character. The talk of death could be either over analysing, or a very astute observation. This is another case of ask JkR when you see her.

Rita was always planned for GoF but Rowling used her for something that the cousin was supposed to offer to the story. Rita doesn't have a personality like Luna's so it could have been information.

It could be that Rowling kept her options open when she slipped in the Lovegood's name in GoF, so when Luna appeared out of nowhere at school she could mention that comment from Arthur.

It's possible that Luna's character will affect the saga in a way that the cousin would have. She is not the cousin, but she is derived from the idea of the cousin.



Wendelin the Weird - Oct 11, 2003 3:15 pm (#114 of 1030)

Yeah I agree with the "derived from the cousin idea". I think she is much the smae character as the cousin may have been, but her role may have expanded to have a bit of romantic interest in Ron it seems. Maybe she'll be like Viktor is to Hermione. A thorn in Hermiones side when she realizes how she feels for Ron.

And somewhere I saw mention that the Wesley cousin was going to fill the journalist/information slot in book 4 but it didnt work out in the plot and Ritas involvement was expanded. I think thats interesting since Luna appears in Book 5 with ties to a paper, The Quibbler, and then works together with Rita in getting an article out with Harry's story.

As for the death information, Im not sure if its anything, it just didnt fit in with the flow of coversation when JKR through in that bit about the death in book 4 when discussing the Weasley cousin.



Nox NotteTorrente - Oct 12, 2003 3:19 am (#115 of 1030)

Re: the Weasly cousin...Just recalled that Arthur Weasley is related to Sirius, so wouldn't that make Tonks a Weasley cousin (since her mother is/was a Black), after a fashion? Could she be the missing "Weasly cousin"?

Nox



Mare - Oct 12, 2003 2:04 pm (#116 of 1030)

I think with the "death information" she wasn't talking about the deaths in the book, but how she "killed off" the Weasley cousin, by not letting her appear in the books. If you read it that way, the conversation flows perfectly normal.



S.E. Jones - Oct 12, 2003 7:27 pm (#117 of 1030)

I thought she mentioned the death to show why writing GoF was stressful and why she got into a predicament where the ends of her story didn't meet and thus had to be rewoven, excluding the cousin. (BTW, she said, either in that interview or another, that the cousin would have filled the same role as Skeeter in GoF and that's why she was finally taken out.)



Hem Hem - Oct 12, 2003 7:38 pm (#118 of 1030)
Edited Oct 12, 2003 8:40 pm

Hey Wendelin, here's another JKR interview about the Weasley Cousin: it comes from Entertainment Weekly, August 4, 2000. I found it at the Quick-Quotes-Quill database for all JKR interviews: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And what exactly was that gaping hole all about?

I had to pull a character. There you go: "the phantom character of Harry Potter." She was a Weasley cousin [related to Ron Weasley, Harry's best friend]. She served the same function that Rita Skeeter [a sleazy investigative journalist] now serves. Rita was always going to be in the book, but I built her up, because I needed a kind of conduit for information outside the school. Originally, this girl fulfilled this purpose.

I think the idea that Luna fills the same plot functions as this Weasley Cousin is an inspired idea! Bravo!



Wendelin the Weird - Oct 12, 2003 11:31 pm (#119 of 1030)
Edited Oct 13, 2003 12:33 am

Aha! Thats the article I read but couldnt find again! Thank you sooo much, Hem Hem! Great detective work!

Yes, that is the blip I was searching for again that made it seem as though the Wealsey cousin somehow had ties to gathering/reporting information in Book 4. Excellent! I think its more than coioncidence that our dear Luna has ties to the Quibbler. I think maybe now that Rita in in coherts with the Quibbler she is tieing her plot line back up a bit. Just my thoughts, I could be completely wrong on that though.. its happened before hee hee

Also that one helps clear it up that the character is "a girl" not "a woman" which means Im 99% sure she is a student at Hogwarts! Whoo hooo!



[«--, --» pyro]--» pyro «-- - Oct 13, 2003 5:55 pm (#120 of 1030)

Does anyone else imagine Luna Lovegood like Captain Jack Sparrow from Pirates of the Caribbean? I can clearly see her talking like him, walking like him, and especially doing the bizarre hand gestures.



wormsé - Oct 13, 2003 7:05 pm (#121 of 1030)

Not Really... well maybe a little. Luna just seems more reserved than Cpt. Jack... (Johnny Depp *squels*)Anyways-- I think there is definitely more to Luna than meets the eye. I'm not quite sure what, yet... and I wanted to say something about her, but I forgot what... Oh well, maybe it will come back to me later...



popkin - Oct 14, 2003 6:42 am (#122 of 1030)
Edited by Oct 14, 2003 7:45 am

I love Luna. You're right, Lindsay, there is more to her than meets the eye, but I am sure she is not hiding anything. She hasn't told us everything there is to know about her, but its not because she wants to conceal something or deceive her friends. She just doesn't know that she's interesting.

I trust Luna 100%. She will be true to her friends through thick and thin, and she won't even know she's done anything remarkable.



PackinMama - Oct 14, 2003 11:40 pm (#123 of 1030)

I think Luna's overall purpose is to show the expansion of Harry's world. Remembering way back when, I had a close knit group of friends when I was 15 and we were all so similar and held the same views on most things. But as I grew up I started meeting new people who were more like me in certain experiences and such. By introducing Luna, Rowling has shown that (once again) Harry's world is expanding as he gets older and he is learning that there is a whole different level of friendship, based on these experiences. Definitely potential for a romantic relationship.



Romulus - Oct 15, 2003 6:26 am (#124 of 1030)

I agree with what PackinMama says above. I also think that Luna (with her quirky, Quibbler-believing ways)adds a slight comic element to the group - after all, books 6 and 7 can't be gloom all the time - can they? Now that the Weasley twins are out of Hogwarts (although I am sure we will still see a lot of two such excellent and well-loved characters), it is good to have another character to make us smile a little. I am not suggesting this is her only role, or even her primary one, as I'm sure she (and Ginny, and Neville) will prove a very useful addition to the Trio However, I do think JKR is the sort of writer who likes to have a comic outlet at times. Luna can certainly play that role, and I think that is one reason why she has been introduced.



lilruninsweete - Oct 16, 2003 9:39 pm (#125 of 1030)

I think that it is appropriate that Luna is in Ravenclaw even though she's brave. Hermione is in Gryffindor, yet she is very intelligent. This is another connection between the two- the fact that they both possess characteristics of another (actually eachother's) House.

BTW this is my first post Wink



S.E. Jones - Oct 16, 2003 9:49 pm (#126 of 1030)

Lilruninsweete, if you haven't alread, swing by the Tell About Yourself thread and, well, tell us about yourself. Oh, and welcome to the HP Lexicon Forum!



Wendelin the Weird - Oct 16, 2003 9:59 pm (#127 of 1030)

I agree! I think Hermione and Luna are so alike but practically mirror opposites in approach. Its funny watching them interact.

...to you, Lilruninsweete. Glad to have you here!



Hermionefan(#1) - Oct 18, 2003 2:10 pm (#128 of 1030)

I agree with No Veil4Me (creative name!). I think Luna is really smart, like jr. philosopher or something. It's just that she expresses herself in a... erm... different way.



Wendelin the Weird - Oct 19, 2003 8:28 am (#129 of 1030)

Yeah they always say the line between genius and insanity is very thin... Einstein was a genious but was quite wacky but most peoples standards, right? YAY for Luna!



Mandy Thomas - Oct 19, 2003 9:06 am (#130 of 1030)

Luna's hint?

I wonder about Luna Lovegood... will she be back in future books? Has she already served her purpose? It seems like every character plays a role. Harry's is to be the Boy-Who-Lived, and to defeat Voldemort, Dumbledore's is to guide and protect Harry, Lily's was to sacrifice herself so Harry could live, so on... Was Luna's purpose to give us a hint about Sirius? She says repeatedly in her last conversation that her things have been taken, but she insists that they "Always come back in the end." Is this foreshadowing (hinting) that Sirius will be back? I think Luna will be back later on. The great thing about her is that she will listen to anyone, accept any strange idea, but she is not accepted by many.... Love, Mandy



megfox - Oct 19, 2003 8:56 am (#131 of 1030)
Edited by Denise P. Oct 19, 2003 10:09 am

Mandy, there is a thread specifically set up to discuss Luna Lovegood. It is in the Present Students at Hogwarts folder.

I am glad that you are enthusiastic about posting your thoughts, theories, and questions, but please make sure that there is no where else you can post something (as in, a thread already devoted to that thought, theory, or question) before starting a new one. We are trying to work on the number of threads here to make it more manageable and easier to use, and part of that cleanup is to not have too many threads devoted to similar topics! Thanks!

Edit: I moved the thread but left Meg's comments for all to see since it is excellent advice! ~NoVeil4Me



Mandy Thomas - Oct 20, 2003 3:28 pm (#132 of 1030)

You know what's kind of funny? Like someone said above, Luna and Hermione have a LOT in common. They are both very brave and smart. But Hermione looks at the world in a factual way and Luna looks at the world in a non-scientific manner... she will believe anything, like I said yesterday, and accept any strange possibility, although no one really accepts her. I think Luna will play an important role later, and she is not as weird as everybody thinks she is!!! If only Harry would listen to her as much as he listens to Hermione and Ron!



A-is-for-Amy - Oct 20, 2003 3:57 pm (#133 of 1030)

Reading everyone's opinion of Luna and how she seems to believe the really far-fetched, I was left wondering if she took divination, and what she and Trelawny thought of each other!



Nymphadora - Oct 21, 2003 3:44 pm (#134 of 1030)

I believe that Luna's prupose is to help Harry over come the death of Sirius. She could also be a love interest for Harry. I hope to see her in future books, as well.



Blast - Oct 22, 2003 12:42 pm (#135 of 1030)

In Luna I see a kindered spirit. Even though people see her as different, she is probably one of the most sanist students at Hogwarts.Is not DD described as being 'mad' by Percy. Luna sees hope and beleif when others scoff.I have had the fortune of knowing quite a few Lunas over the years and the woprld would be a lot better if they were in charge.I think there was a man called Charles Forte who used to collect oddities and publish them in a magazine. I wonder if JK got the idea for the Quibbler for his works?



timrew - Oct 28, 2003 5:22 pm (#136 of 1030)

A publication called "The Fortean Times", Blast end newt. I can well imagine JKR got the idea for The Quibbler from this.

As you do, I like Luna a lot. Her and her kind would make a much better job of running the world than the incompetents that do!



::StinkerBell:: - Oct 28, 2003 8:13 pm (#137 of 1030)

Loony Lovegood..... oh, I like her last name......I just noticed that.....



timrew - Oct 29, 2003 4:58 pm (#138 of 1030)

Yes, I think if Luna lived in the 60s, she would have been a Hippie.

Probably her parents were. The first wizarding "Love Children"!



Gary Russell - Oct 30, 2003 8:07 am (#139 of 1030)

I don't think she is as spacy ether. I think she have profictic abilitys. I think she was not scared on the hourse like anamals becouse she know she was not in danger. Gary



Sinister Kittens - Oct 30, 2003 8:10 am (#140 of 1030)

Gary, don't forget that she could actually see them, Ron, Hermione and Ginny would naturally be more scared about flying through the air on nothing...



Gary Russell - Oct 30, 2003 6:00 pm (#141 of 1030)

"don't forget that she could actually see them" It stell seams to me that she had a lack of fear on acasion where it seemed she shud. Gary



Lenka - Oct 30, 2003 10:10 pm (#142 of 1030)

""Loony Lovegood..... oh, I like her last name......I just noticed that..... ""

Well, this at least seems to rule out that she'll join Dork Lard...



Sinister Kittens - Oct 31, 2003 6:24 am (#143 of 1030)

Yeah, you're right. But I think that's part of her whole personality and demeanor, nothing seems to faze her.



milti girl - Nov 2, 2003 9:31 am (#144 of 1030)

I like Luna because I can identify with her a lot. People say I'm spaced-out and wacky all the time, they say I'm distant and detached, and a load of other stuff. They think my choice in clothes is funny, they suddenly begin laughing hilariously at something I say, and I'll be standing there blinking, wondering what they're laughing at. The thing is, Luna is the same way. Like me, she seems to be more unaware of herself than others -- unaware of what she's doing, or saying ... and yet there's this really sharp side to her; she looks like she's not concentrating at all on what others around her are doing, but she actually does know what's going on. Luna is different and that's what makes her a good person. She's my favourite character after Ron, and even though Harry and Ron seem to be quite annoyed with her, I think she'll turn out to be a real friend of Harry's. I have a feeling JKR brought her into the picture to help Harry and (especially) Neville out.



Xanthe - Nov 3, 2003 9:38 am (#145 of 1030)

I think Luna will have a very important role to play. jk brings characters in for a reasons.

e.g Neville is frequently mentioned throughout the books, even if just in a sentence in passing, he's still brought into the readers mind and now we know why.

I don't think Luna and Harry will have a "thing" together but maybe Luna could be the first person that Harry explains the Prophecy to (wouldn't that really bug Hermione?)

Sorry for blabbing on i had to say that



Lenka - Nov 3, 2003 1:37 pm (#146 of 1030)

Actually, I think Harry will tell Luna. It's a safe guess she won't fuss about it, at least.



Fawkes8U - Nov 4, 2003 5:55 am (#147 of 1030)

I wonder if Luna, meaning the moon, and Moony Lupin are connected? Or have you guys hashed that possibility out already?



Madame Librarian - Nov 4, 2003 8:55 am (#148 of 1030)

Yep, Fawkes8U, check way back on this thread or use the search function.

Harry may not actually have to tell Luna. IMO, it's quite feasible that she'll just say something to him so close to the actual Prophecy, with a sense that she'd known it all along (or made a lucky guess) that he'll be stunned into confiding the whole story to her. That's how things are with Luna sometimes. She'll become his confidante inadvertanly, but she'll prove to be a good one and advise him well without revealing things to the others until he's ready.

Ciao. Barb



Susurro Notities - Nov 4, 2003 10:49 am (#149 of 1030)

I think you are on to something Madam Librarian. Harry knows that knowledge of the prophecy could be dangerous and he is likely not comfortable with the knowledge himself thus I don't think he would tell anyone. Unless as you said someone inadvertently says something that leads Harry to believe they know something or can assist him to understand the prophecy. Luna is the perfect character to say something wild that just happens to fit.



Madame Librarian - Nov 4, 2003 11:11 am (#150 of 1030)

For whatever reasons, she has this uncanny ability to speak the truth in a calm, confident way. Reminds me a bit of the Greek chorus in ancient plays. She makes these whacky pronouncments that at the time seem like non sequitars, but really have some depth to them if you stop and think about them.

Ciao. Barb


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Psychedelic Enchantress - Nov 5, 2003 8:05 am (#151 of 1030)

Like Phoebe in 'Friends', really. She comes across as a total flake but can be surprisingly perceptive.



timrew - Nov 5, 2003 3:20 pm (#152 of 1030)

Yes, I can see Harry telling Luna about the prophecy before he tells even Ron or Hermione.

They would be appalled by it, whereas Luna would probably take it in her stride and show Harry an article her Dad had published about prophecies in The Quibbler.



Peregrine - Nov 6, 2003 8:59 am (#153 of 1030)

Yeah, I agree. He didn’t want to tell Ron and Hermione about his scar hurting in the beginning of GoF because they would freak out.



Becky Palmer - Nov 9, 2003 4:14 am (#154 of 1030)

I think Luna is the sort of person who understands things not in an intellectual way, but in a spiritual way. When I think of the phrase "Faith is the substance of things hoiped for but the evidence of things not seen" I think of Luna. Hermione tends to have faith in things she can see or read about in books. Luna is more willing to embrace the unknown.



timrew - Nov 13, 2003 3:34 pm (#155 of 1030)

Regarding who would Harry confide in......

Take Lavender and Parvati. They laugh at Luna because she wears a bottle cap necklace and orange radish earrings. And what does Luna do?

Nothing. She doesn't care. Luna has lots of brain cells. Lavender and Parvati, being airheads (who only care about themselves) share one between them.

I can see Harry and Luna having more deep, meaningful conversations in book 6.

He'd rather talk to a Luna, Hermione or Ginny type woman, than a Lavender or Parvati one anytime!



::StinkerBell:: - Nov 13, 2003 8:17 pm (#156 of 1030)

Harry only took Parvati to the ball because he needed a partner, right? I don't remember if he just asked because he was pressured, or if there was any other real emotion. Was it Parvati's hair that Harry was staring at, at the exams? I'm not saying this is important or any thing, I'm just asking.....



Romulus - Nov 14, 2003 2:23 am (#157 of 1030)

I think he was only staring at Parvati's hair because she was in front of him. In the UK, I have always sat in alphabetical order in exams. And, as far as I can recall, there is no-one between Patel, Parvati and Potter, Harry in Harry's year.



::StinkerBell:: - Nov 14, 2003 2:45 pm (#158 of 1030)

Ya, I just went back to read that... Sorry,I was just a bit confused...

SJ Rand [/b]- Nov 15, 2003 11:47 am (#159 of 1030)

Stinkerbell: >>Harry only took Parvati to the ball because he needed a partner, right?

Right. He'd left it to the last moment, and Cho had already turned him down.

But Harry had just seen Parvati and Lavender come through the portrait hole. The time had come for drastic action.

The only emotion he was feeling was panic over not having a partner.



Psychedelic Enchantress - Nov 21, 2003 2:35 pm (#160 of 1030)

What I don't understand is why everyone seems to think she has a crush on Ron. I personally thought she liked Harry.



Neville Longbottom - Nov 21, 2003 3:34 pm (#161 of 1030)

I think these are the arguments:

1. She told Ron, that she wouldn't mind, if he didn't dance with her (after she told him that Padma was angry because of the Yule ball).

2. She was summing "Weasley is our kind". I personally don't really see this as an argument at all, because Nearly-Headless Nick sang the song, too, together with about everyone in school. It had probably just a nice tune.



S.E. Jones - Nov 21, 2003 3:38 pm (#162 of 1030)

There was also her staring at him (though she did stare at everyone) and her laughing way, way too hard at his little joke on the train.

Personally, I just figured all these things were just her being Luna. I mean, they do seem to just sorta fit into her personality....



Hem Hem - Nov 21, 2003 3:58 pm (#163 of 1030)

...Oblivious to social cues....
I don't think she has a crush on him either. In fact, I don't think she was even aware that she was paying Ron a lot of attention...



popkin - Nov 21, 2003 7:06 pm (#164 of 1030)

She also lives relatively near to the Weasleys. Some have speculated that she may have known Ron (from afar, perhaps) before they formally met on the train.



S.E. Jones - Nov 21, 2003 7:11 pm (#165 of 1030)

she may have known Ron (from afar, perhaps)

That's just...creepy....



popkin - Nov 21, 2003 7:37 pm (#166 of 1030)

You made me laugh.



Psychedelic Enchantress - Nov 23, 2003 2:33 pm (#167 of 1030)

I love that time in the Room of Requirement, where she dreamily points up and says "Mistletoe," causing Harry to jump out from it... and her matter of fact "They're infested by Knargles", or whatever it was (being at uni, I had to leave most of my books at home, grr).

Maybe she knew that Cho was going to make a move on him. Her spaced out ways and looks remind me a little of Trelawney, the one other seer in the story... maybe these are 'symptoms' of being a Seer...



Lenka - Nov 24, 2003 4:46 am (#168 of 1030)

I loved the way Harry promptly jumped from under it.

Was it just instinct, did he suspect the Knargles, or was he merelly terrified of the very slim possibility being snogged by Luna Lovegood under the mistletoe...



Sly Girl - Nov 24, 2003 9:01 am (#169 of 1030)

Probably all three... although one probably motivated him faster than the others.



timrew - Nov 24, 2003 11:21 am (#170 of 1030)

Maybe he was terrified of being snogged by a Knargle.



Gabrielle D - Nov 24, 2003 2:13 pm (#171 of 1030)

That sounds about right, timrew...



Wendelin the Weird - Nov 24, 2003 9:38 pm (#172 of 1030)

Hmmm I hope Luna doesnt have a thing for Ron, especially considering that past evidence that she is the mysterious "Weasley cousin" that was removed from Book 4! Ha haa.. YIKES!!

I think if anything she is oblivious to crushes per say. She seems more the type who would mysteriously come to realize one day that she had fallen madly in love with her best friend as he kisses her. Anyone familiar with astrology? Well, I see her as an Aquarius type in the romance dept - more interested in friendship/love. Just my take on things.

Dunno if I see her and Harry getting together though, I think they will simply be very good friends, and she may be the one JKR has said will "change houses" in an upcoming book.



popkin - Nov 25, 2003 9:16 am (#173 of 1030)

She does seem like a good candidate for changing houses, since she is the only one of the six DOM adventurers not from Gryffindore. Also, she doesn't seem to be well liked in her own house.

What are we calling that group of six kids? I'm going to call them The Six for now.

She actually strikes me as someone who has never had friends before, and it might be something of a new experience for her. Maybe, as she gets to know the rest of The Six, and to feel confident in their friendship, she might begin relying on her fantasy world less, and she might be able to keep at least her toes on the ground. Then she would begin to seem more like a potential partner for Harry, Ron or Neville.



Sly Girl - Nov 25, 2003 10:02 am (#174 of 1030)

Well, to be honest, I love Luna the way she is- dreamy and not too here in the here and now. Putting her feet on the ground, as it were, would be against character. At least, against the character I have in my head. This story already has a Hermione- who is very level headed. Ginny, who is sensible and yet is not as rigid as Hermione, sort of tows that middle ground. They need Luna to be out there, spices things up.



Fawkes Forever - Nov 25, 2003 10:04 am (#175 of 1030)

So we have Monica, Rachel & Phoebe from Friends as so to speak, (Hermione, Ginny & Luna... lol)
sorry slightly off topic... but that thought just struck me

I really like Luna though, it's nice to have someone around who thinks outside the box.... especially handy when it involves a world full of magic... where quite possibly, anything can happen...



Lenka - Nov 26, 2003 9:37 am (#176 of 1030)

I don't think Luna will be the one to change houses. It goes against the Hogwarts "strong from within" concept. Remember, when the House went on about the houses united? Well, we can't have all the Six in one house, it'll be weird. Actually, I think one of the Six might switch houses, becom a Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff (probably not Slytherin, though).



S.E. Jones - Nov 26, 2003 10:04 am (#177 of 1030)

I've never been able to find that change house quote. I've found it listed on a HP fan page under possible facts and rumors, but I've never seen an actual quote (i.e. direct from JK) given. Does anyone know where I can find it?



A-is-for-Amy - Nov 26, 2003 10:08 am (#178 of 1030)

I don't know where the quote came from, but when I heard it, my first thought was Theodore Nott. It would kind of be strange to see a slytherin change houses, though, for the reasons that Lenka just posted.



S.E. Jones - Nov 26, 2003 10:46 am (#179 of 1030)

While I would still like to see that quote, we have a thread to discuss whether students can Change Houses or not, so perhaps the discussion should move there?....



timrew - Nov 26, 2003 4:58 pm (#180 of 1030)

The last thing I can see Luna doing is changing houses.

To her mind, why should she; and, is it important to her? A resounding 'No' on both counts.

And also, why shouldn't there be inter-house friendships? Why does everyone have to be in Gryffindor?

JKR is working our prejudices so well, here. I think all this 'changing house' nonsense is very sad.



A-is-for-Amy - Dec 8, 2003 7:55 am (#181 of 1030)
Edited by S.E. Jones Dec 30, 2003 1:20 pm

I was re-reading OoP and something caught my eye. When the kids all get separated in the Dept. Of Mysteries, Luna ends up blowing up Pluto. That got me thinking that Luna= moon (duh), and pluto is a planet (duh again). Could that have a deeper meaning?

I found this on an astrology site. It's a bit long, but I found it interesting. And Luna blew it up?

"Pluto is the symbol of reincarnation, the death necessary for rebirth. In the individual horoscope, Pluto corresponds to deep change within the awareness of society, deep change in relation to the collectivity.

I noted above that essentially the Moon personifies the body, the lower self, in the symbolism of astrology. But its even more than that, and this is especially important in the context of Pluto: the Moon represents the glorification of MATTER through its PURIFICATION?

WHAT THE DEVIL DOES THAT MEAN? It means that the Moon is actually itching for a bruisin’. The Moon is this-changeable-self hoping against hope that all this stuff it has to go through has some endpoint, some greater manifestation of itself. The Moon is waiting for its destiny: PLUTO.

Pluto represents the culmination of all the aspects of the Moon, and when it comes into aspect with the Moon, big important things happen(sometimes.....)

But, lets go back to the plain old characteristics of Pluto. Plain and Simple: Pluto is the destroying POWER of Death; Pluto is the scythe that Death carries. Pluto represents the death of the personality(the Moon), the death of desire(the Moon), the death of all that holds the native enthralled with the oppositional aspect. Pluto is actually the death of the astrological chart for individuals because it represents the end of the human stage, ending the endless birth-death-birth-death cycle. Without anymore births, there is no longer an individual horoscope. Destroy the Opposition and there is no more battle(Pun intended). "

To check out the page I found it at, you can go here:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

->I just changed one word to make it more appropriate. For questions, contact me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]<- S.E. Jones



Madame Librarian - Dec 8, 2003 8:34 am (#182 of 1030)

In Greco/Roman mythology here's how it plays out:

Luna (Roman) = the moon = Selene (Greek)--moon goddess who fell in love with a mortal.

Selene, however, is also associated with Artemis (Greek)/Diana (Roman) who is the goddess of the hunt and protector of children.

Pluto (Roman) = Hades (Greek)--King of the Underworld.

Quite a different slant than the astrology analysis, no? I can't quite tie them together, but if (that's big "if") JKR is investing Luna's name and actions with deep meaning, I'd put my money on clues from Greek mythology rather than astrology, but that's just my take on it. I don't really think it goes much deeper than the fact that Luna reminds of moon, moon reminds us of moony-eyed, which reminds us of Luna's odd spaciness and wide-eyed personality.

Ciao. Barb



freshwater - Dec 9, 2003 6:31 am (#183 of 1030)

Amy---I'm not big on astrology (at all) but I think your insights and connections are fascinating. Thanks for posting them! Now we have one more item on our list of "Let's See if This Plays Out the Way We Think It Will" in the next 2 books.



Lenka - Dec 12, 2003 4:43 am (#184 of 1030)

I also think that even if you ignore all the asrolgy/mythology stuff, the "blowing up pluto in someone's face" thing is such a tupical Luna. I mean, it just shows why Luna's in Ravenclaw. First, she actually used an unusual invented-on-the-spot method of getting rid of a Death-eater while floating around in a strange, freaky place (very cool-minded, isn't it) and she remembered it was Pluto she blew up. I mean, she knows so much about astrology she recognizes a pluto when she sees one, even if she's under extreme stress.

Lenka



timrew - Dec 12, 2003 4:18 pm (#185 of 1030)

Okay, Luna blew up Pluto. But she never laid a finger on Minnie or Mickey!



Weeny Owl - Dec 12, 2003 4:26 pm (#186 of 1030)

Good grief, tim, you're Goofy.

Since Pluto is the Greek god of the Underworld, maybe that's a good sign that Voldie will be blasted from existence with Luna's help.



Sly Girl - Dec 13, 2003 1:12 pm (#187 of 1030)

Oh I like that idea most of all, Weeny. A bit of foreshadowing would be oh so JKR!



Weeny Owl - Dec 13, 2003 3:33 pm (#188 of 1030)

Yes, JKR is full of surprises, Sly.

I can't see her bringing in a character such as Luna and not including her in the last two books. Between Luna's unique personality and her father's newspaper, I think JKR has definite plans for her.

I also think she's another of JKR's characters similar to an iceberg... we see only what is visible but there is so much more hidden below.



milti girl - Dec 13, 2003 11:33 pm (#189 of 1030)

These are the reasons why I think Luna likes Ron (and yes, I know this really goes on the Ship thread, but hear me out, beacuse there are some pepole wondering why)

1. Luna laughs hilariusly at Ron's joke about the baboon's backside. She's too busy staring at Ron in wonder that he could have such an amazing sense of humour that when Harry asks if he can read her magazine, she nods but doesn't remove her eyes from Ron.

2. She offers to hold Pigwidgeon. That might seem like a small thing, but I don't think it is. She could have very easily offered to hold Crookshanks too. It's just that holding Ron's pet would make it seem like she cares for Pig as much as Ron does.

3. She gets into the carriage after Ron. Why, when she's more of Ginny's friend than his? She seems to take it for granted that the Gryffindors wouldn't mind that. And she's right; they don't, they're more tolerant of her than her own House is.

4. She keeps calling him Ronald. She obviously loves his name because it's his .

5. She wishes Ron luck before his match; she fails to wish Harry or any of the other players. It's 'good luck, Ronald', not 'good luck, everyone'; she also makes that Gryffindor lion hat roar like a lion -- possibly to cheer Ron up and also maybe to drown out (or compete with) the Slytherins' singing.

6. She hums 'Weasley is our King' under her breath. Maybe that's not very flattering to Ron, but it shows she's still thinking of what happened at the match, and how Ron was ridiculed, and thus, Ron himself. It's just that her spaced-out-all-the-time nature makes her forget that if Ron ever heard her, he would be livid.

7. Luna is not at all fazed when Ron is quite rude -- "Well, maybe you can sprout wings and fly whenever you want to, but we can't!" or whatever that quote is, and "You've got a rubbish sense of humour, then!" (sorry, I haven't got the book here). She's ready to forgive very easily – and forgive Ron, at that. Hermione herself isn't so forgiving.

8. She remembers who Ron's date at the Yule Ball was -- not Harry's date, not Hermione's, not anyone else's. And she also guesses that maybe Ron didn't want to dance because he probably wouldn't like it, and she says she wouldn't mind if he didn't dance, because she doesn't like it either. It sounds a lot like she's saying, "I'm in the same boat as you, Ronald."

It's a different matter what Ron himself thinks of her. (Her nose better be properly centered!) He probably just doesn't know what to think of her at all. Maybe he just sees her as his younger sister's weird friend, and that's all. She's going to have to work a lot harder if she wants him to notice her, and dropping cryptic comments isn't going to help much, I think.

Is there really going to be a character changing Houses? I'm willing to bet anything it's Luna. She's --

1. Brave (she has to be if she keeps ignoring all the nasty comments about her, and look how valiantly she fought in the Dept of Mysteries)

2. Good natured.

3. Ready to take risks and face the consequences.

4. Quick thinking -- her head is with her when she needs it, like in the DoM.

Can't really think of any more now.



Czarina - Dec 15, 2003 6:47 am (#190 of 1030)

Interesting analysis.

I don't think Luna is going to change Houses, though. It is possible to be both smart AND brave (as evidenced by Hermione, who almost ended up in Ravenclaw). Although we haven't seen much of Luna's exceptional intelligence yet, I think she will be vital in the last two books. I see her as being as smart and quick-thinking as Hermione, but with a completely different outlook on life. She is not one to flaunt her intelligence, as Hermione is. As a Ravenclaw, Luna reinforces the inter-House cooperation. Not every "good" or "important" character has to be/have been in Gryffindor. The Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws just don't like to take as many risks, it seems.



milti girl - Dec 16, 2003 10:11 am (#191 of 1030)

"she also makes that Gryffindor lion hat roar like a lion -- possibly to cheer Ron up and also maybe to drown out (or compete with) the Slytherins' singing."

I'm sorry, I made a mistake there. Upon re-reading that bit, I found out that she made the hat on the day of Ron's very first match, before everyone started singing the Weasley is Our King song. And she also made an eagle sit on her head during the Gryffindor-vs-Ravenclaw match.

I have to rethink this bit...



CouchPit - Dec 18, 2003 2:24 pm (#192 of 1030)

Hello all! I'm new to the forum.

I think S.E. Jones is on to Luna with her post #36 S.E. Jones 9/5/03 12:56pm and Luna being exceptionally intelligent. Is it possible that Luna's flightiness is really a manifestation of her boredom? Stay with me here. I think Luna is so intelligent to the point that she is bored waiting for the others to catch up. I've known schoolmates who were so far ahead of the curve that they ended up being trouble makers because they were bored with what the teachers were saying.

Instead of acting out maybe Luna is introverted and likes to spend her time contemplating great horned snorkaks (sp?) or whatever other theories her father is obsessed with. Is it possible that her intelligence coupled with the trauma of witnessing her mother's death at such a young age left her numb to insults and socially inept? And without a superiority complex to boot!

I think her conversation with Harry at the end of the year also illustrated her smarts and compassion. Maybe things go missing and she posts her notice every year but she was adept enough at that moment so say something relative to the conversation having a subtle undertone that she knew would comfort him.

Ok, so you now know I'm long winded. Sorry. Luna is a great character and I hope she is in this for the long haul.

(Thanks Hem Hem for the tip on this thread!)

Dan



fidelio - Dec 19, 2003 6:42 am (#193 of 1030)

Dan--

That's an interesting take on Luna--I agree that one reason she seems so odd is that she is both extremely bright and introverted--i was the same way at her age and definitely didn't fit in with the average American high school crowd. I also suspect that her family is much the same--her father sounds like he's pretty much all wrapped up in the pursuit of luna frogs, crumple-horned snorkacks, and Fudge's secret army of heliopaths, without much regard to the rest of the world, and her mother may well have been a bright oddball as well.

It's hard to say, based on how much we've seen so far, whether or not Luna's ever sorted out her mother's death, but I think you were right in your other post that, compared with witnessing the unpleasant death of a parent, being called a few silly names might seem rather unimportant.

Of course, once she realized that people thought she was strange, Luna decided to play up to people's expectations, just for the fun of it--how many of us have been tempted to do something unusual, but didn't go through with it, because it might look odd to people--not illegal, dangerous, or disgusting, just strange. Once you decide this doesn't matter, you're free to do things like wear a hat that looks a lion and roars when you want it to.



milti girl - Dec 19, 2003 10:08 am (#194 of 1030)

fidelio, I know exactly what you mean! It's natural tendency to live up to what people expect -- once you're labelled 'weird' and 'spaced-out' and all that, you definitely want to do weird, out-of-this-world things. And to someone like Luna, I don't think she really cares what people might think, she does what she does and says what she says only for the fun of shocking everyone else around her, thus stengthening her image of being loony.



CouchPit - Dec 20, 2003 8:35 pm (#195 of 1030)

Crumple-horned snorkacks! That's it! Thanks, fidelio! I might have to change my handle to that. Oh well, it's probably already taken.

Of course, once she realized that people thought she was strange, Luna decided to play up to people's expectations, just for the fun of it

Now that's an interesting thought, fidelio. Is she acting? I have no proof but I get the feeling she is an only child and am assuming she was very close to her parents as a result. (Why would her mother let her watch seemingly dangerous magical experiments?) Being an only child she would not have to be the strong older sister to any siblings and, therefore, would be even closer to her father now as they comfort each other.

Could she have joined in her fathers obsessions and learned from him not to acknowledge the criticism? Maybe two years of practicing that before attending Hogwarts has allowed her to be a "free spirit" at school. She is in Ravenclaw so must be intelligent and I believe she grasps the seriousness of the DA's (and the Order's) mission. Would she continue to act Loony in such an environment. I have to say not. I think she is just a dreamy girl with a lot of sadness to get through. She has the intelligence to stay ahead of her class work giving her the time to think about not so sad things.

Just my impression as I read the book. Only JKR knows for sure, of course. It is fun to speculate though.

Dan



Leviosa - Dec 21, 2003 4:43 am (#196 of 1030)

Hi everyone, I'm new here and want to share my thougts about Luna with you.

I think she hummed the "Weasley is our king" song, because she considered it as a compliment to Ron. She lives in her own world and so didn't realize that it wasn't positive at all. I'm not saying that she's too dumb to realize the song's true intention, but with being often mentally absent she might just have caught the melody and the "Weasley is our king" line. What do you think? Did I express my point clearly?

bye Susi



Lyssers - Dec 21, 2003 6:48 pm (#197 of 1030)

Luna actually represents so many things to me. She has this innocent baby-like way. Those who have a super good memory, have a child, or are with children a lot know babies and young children will give names to things they don't know the name of. I think she actually knows of real creatures, but her and her father just name them something else.

Then she has this teenage like state where she's trying to rebel. I don't think she does it on purpose, but she's doing all this weird stuff that no one would do. It doesn't bother her at all to hear things said about her. Reading through random posts, she really reminded me of this guy in To Kill A Mockingbird. It's too late for me to think of his name, and I don't feel like getting offensive, but he lives in a way that people don't approve of. To stop them from asking him why, he carries around a coke bottle in a brown bag and staggers as he walks to appear drunk so people have a reason to think the way they do. Could something similar be going on with Luna?

Finally, she posesses this aura of an adult who's been through everything. She doesn't have that teenaged temper, she just walks along with all this superior knowledge like she knows something we don't, but she doesn't brag. She just stands there, behind the crowd, observing. For anyone who knows Chinese Astrology, she comes off as a Snake to me. She stands back and watches everyone before she attacks.

Alright, sorry about that. Going around in a circle and I'm not making any sense. But it's late and I just want to sleep, not kill my brain writing about Luna.



timrew - Dec 21, 2003 11:57 pm (#198 of 1030)

Lyssers, I think the guy in, 'To Kill A Mockingbird', is called Boo Radley.

Luna is a complex character. She's the only one Harry can talk to about his feelings after the battle at the MOM; and she seems to know which buttons to press to get through to him.

I can't wait to see how her character develops.



Ihavebothbuttocks - Dec 22, 2003 3:20 am (#199 of 1030)

The character with the bagged bottle was Dolphus Raymond.



Madame Librarian - Dec 22, 2003 5:00 am (#200 of 1030)

Wasn't Boo Radley the little boy who lived next door with his grandma? I should go grab the book and check (sheesh, what's the use of being a librarian?), but it's sooo early, plus I think my son has the book at school.

If I'm right (I will check later), this little boy was odd and sickly but very wise in a way. A sad, charming character that gave the two other kids a different perspective on things. Very much like Luna, I think. Oh, and it is fairly accepted that Harper Lee based this character on a real person, a neighbor of hers (not the sickly part, maybe, but the odd, for sure): Truman Capote!

If it's Boo I'm talking about, we find out in the epilogue that he dies a year or so after the events of the book.

OK, all you high schoolers (To Kill a Mockingbird is often required reading freshman or sophomore year, and greatly loved)--set me straight if I'm off the mark here.

Ciao. Barb


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Ihavebothbuttocks - Dec 22, 2003 9:53 am (#201 of 1030)

Barb, are you by any chance thinking of 'Dill' Harris, who was visiting his aunt? 'Boo' Radley was the *monster* who lived in the basement of the *haunted house*.



timrew - Dec 22, 2003 10:12 am (#202 of 1030)

I'll bow to your superior knowledge, Ihavebothbuttocks. This is a sure sign that I need to read that book again!

I don't even have the excuse of not being able to get to the library. It's sitting on my bookshelf!



Madame Librarian - Dec 22, 2003 4:20 pm (#203 of 1030)

Oh right, IHBB, thanks for checking. Well, I did have the sense of the character just not the right name. That happens in real life too--

"Oh, hi, you're Egbert's sister, Bertha, welcome." "Umm, uh, er, you mean Stella, I think. My name is Stella." "Why of course, Stella, how silly of me." (As I blush bright red, and practiclly shove a glass of white wine into poor Stella's hand.)

At any rate, Dill is the character that might remind readers of Luna a bit.

Ciao. Barb



loony - Jan 13, 2004 3:45 am (#204 of 1030)

Hi! This is my first posting, I just thought I should finally stop only reading and start writing Smile.

Luna is one of my favorite characters, she's a bit weird but I think that this might be very good. She is actually just the way I imagine Dumbledore was, at his own time in Hogwarts. We know that she's smart (she's in Ravenclaw), but not the way Hermione is - Luna doesn't have to show it. I think it might be her to invent a new spell (maybe to improve the one that killed her mother) and help harry or so in the future. She is also brave as we could see during the battle. And it's often told that she looks bored, or like she was there only by Accident. But we are also often told that Dumbledore stays calm even in the situatinos like in the battle in the ministry of magic...



Devika - Jan 13, 2004 7:02 am (#205 of 1030)

Hi Loony! I find your comparison of Luna with Dumbledore quite interesting. I've never thought of it this way, but there are some striking similarities. Luna is one of those who will stick by her convictions and way of doing things, without bothering what others think of them. DD too doesn't care about how others judge him. I think it is this nature, a very self-confident sort of attitude in a way, that sets them both apart and gives them the strength to pursue what they would want. I think I'm starting to get a bit deep, but hey! I love Luna and DD a lot!



A-is-for-Amy - Jan 13, 2004 8:45 am (#206 of 1030)

Welcome to the forum, loony! An interesting comparison in personalities! I think you may be onto something... I could see Dumbledore joining a trip to look for a Crumple Horned Snorkack, just for the fun of it (in less stressful times, of course), and not caring what any one thinks or even if they find one!



SarcasticGinny - Jan 13, 2004 9:05 am (#207 of 1030)

That's a comparison that never occurs to me, but I love it. Dumbledore is carefully described as being a bit mad, especially in the first book, just like Luna's introduction is particularly "loony". Cool, Loony & Amy!



Lynn Allen - Jan 14, 2004 2:01 pm (#208 of 1030)

The juxtaposition (to borrow a term from Galadriel Waters' Ultimate Unofficial Guide and her new Clue book) of Hermione and Luna seems important as it shows how split apart the WW and Muggle worlds have become, at a cost to each. Hermione, daughter of two Muggles (dentists), brings the scientific, logical, objective perspective that our society seems to value so much. Luna, in contrast, is nearly the archetype for the mystical, anything-goes, magical world view. Contrasting the two is important because it shows problems arise when people over-emphasize the rational or the mystical world views to the exclusion of the other. Hermione calls situations accurately most of the time, except when she is emotional. Luna approaches the same situations from the emotional or subjective perspective, and perhaps is able to interpret happenings best when she IS emotional. Harry, a wizard who spent childhood in the Muggle world, is learning to make his way through each, to find some sythesis of the two perspectives. Perhaps it is healthiest to find some balance in worldview between pure rationality and pure faith, and that is Harry's continuing task. Lynn



Lynn Allen - Jan 14, 2004 2:09 pm (#209 of 1030)

Oh dear, I'm definitely sounding like a frustrated intellectual. Argghh... Lynn



freshwater - Jan 14, 2004 2:09 pm (#210 of 1030)

Very well put, Lynn! I hadn't noticed that juxtaposition in that light before. Thanks!



Devika - Jan 15, 2004 2:38 am (#211 of 1030)

Lynn, I think you have put that idea across beautifully. I had also thought of this contrast between Hermione and Luna, but somehow I had missed the link about muggle and wizard upbringing. The missing piece in the puzzle. Thanks.



loony - Jan 15, 2004 10:35 am (#212 of 1030)

Lynn, that's really good comparison of the two worlds (and two girls)!



A-is-for-Amy - Jan 15, 2004 11:01 am (#213 of 1030)

Do you think it significant that Luna lasted longer in the Dept. of Mysteries battle than Hermione?



Lynn Allen - Jan 15, 2004 12:13 pm (#214 of 1030)

Amy asked: "Do you think it significant that Luna lasted longer in the Dept. of Mysteries battle than Hermione?"

Only to the extent that Luna held back briefly to see how to best contribute to the defense, and perhaps because having 10 Death Eaters threatening her at once was intimidating.

And thanks for the other compliments on my postings; you are all much less threatening than Voldemorts' troops but it is still taking a chance to jump in with reasoned opinions like this! I can understand Luna's reticence, if that's what it was!



Neville Longbottom - Jan 15, 2004 12:15 pm (#215 of 1030)

I think it's significant, that the two students, with whom Harry didn't want to be seen, where the ones that lasted the longest. I don't think it has something to do with a Hermione/Luna comparison.



Devika - Jan 16, 2004 4:45 am (#216 of 1030)

That's an interesting observation Neville. I think this might just go on to indicate that Harry should drop his little prejudices, whatever they might be, if he needs to find his most loyal friends and allies for the war. Oops I think this is now on the wrong thread!!Please feel free to shift this.



Peregrine - Jan 16, 2004 7:50 am (#217 of 1030)

Regarding Luna lasting longer than Hermione…maybe it was because Luna was more open to the possibility that there was immense danger ahead of them at the Ministry. I can see Hermione convincing herself the whole way over that nothing was going to happen, that it was just a dream and surely the security guards at the MOM would stop any DEs from getting through…and then when she was confronted by a mass of escaped Azkaban prisoners and Malfoy it shocked her too much. But Luna doesn’t seem to be fazed by much of anything and is always ready or looking for the impossible.



Neville Longbottom - Jan 17, 2004 4:31 am (#218 of 1030)

It didn't shock Hermione much, considering that she saved Harry and defeated two Death Eaters, before she went down.



Czarina - Jan 17, 2004 6:17 am (#219 of 1030)

I think she went on autopilot: "MUST SAVE HARRY AND EVERYONE BECAUSE I'M THE SMART ONE"

Luna, however, has probably read about the Dep. of Mysteries and accepted the mysterious objects and secrets it contains as real. I think Luna is quicker to understand Harry. Hermione views his visions and nightmares as a disease of some sort to be dealt with. Luna somewhat understands his pain and misery, I think, as a burden that can't be easily fixed. We know next to nothing about her personal life, really. We know her mother died when she was nine (which is not so long ago, since she's fourteen). Otherwise, nothing. She's apparently very close to Daddy Lovegood and has a very open mind. She seems to be an only child; perhaps her family is very small because of the last Voldemort uprising. Her father, considering their relationship, probably told her lots of stories about the war and she would be quick to see the urgency of going to the MoM. She realised that it could be a trap. Hermione thought it was all nonsense. I think Rowling's message here is that while being very practical-minded is good, it never hurts to be a little more open to other options.



Neville Longbottom - Jan 26, 2004 1:03 pm (#220 of 1030)

There is a new site for Luna on the Lexicon. It's pretty good.



loony - Jan 28, 2004 2:19 am (#221 of 1030)

and how can i find it?



A-is-for-Amy - Jan 28, 2004 5:43 am (#222 of 1030)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There you go! (and remember...proper capitaization!)



Psychedelic Enchantress - Jan 28, 2004 10:07 am (#223 of 1030)

I love that picture of her. Just how I visualise Miss Lovegood: zany, gauche, seemingly uncaring of what people think of her... but a glimmer of sensitivity. She reminds me a lot of one of my friends at middle school, come to think of it.



Madame Librarian - Jan 28, 2004 10:15 am (#224 of 1030)

It'a a cute picture but I'm not sure the eyes and hair are quite right. Is she a blonde? (Don't have the book here.) Also, the eyes are too normal looking in this drawing. Love the outfit, however.

Ciao. Barb



Psychedelic Enchantress - Jan 28, 2004 10:19 am (#225 of 1030)

Yes, she's described as having 'dirty blonde hair'- and a little on the straggly side.



Czarina - Jan 28, 2004 4:00 pm (#226 of 1030)

I think "dirty blonde" is a bit darker than the "blonde" in the drawing, though. Although, does Rowling mean by dirty blonde "blonde hair that is dirty" or "dark blonde"? I suppose that is open to interpretation!



Hem Hem - Jan 28, 2004 9:06 pm (#227 of 1030)

Perhaps this would be better asked on the "Hidden Meaning in Hair" thread, but do any other characters in the series have dirty blond hair? I remember thinking that "dirty-blond" was a very unusual adjective for JKR to use, not part of her typical word choice.



Psychedelic Enchantress - Jan 29, 2004 4:04 am (#228 of 1030)

None that I can recall off the top of my head (terrible pun, considering it's my own hair colour)... It seems odd, since dark blonde/light brown (whichever way you choose to describe it) is the most common hair colour, but I can't think of anyone else with it. Would it be described as 'fair', or 'mousy', do you think? And is the word 'blonde' initially provided to make you think she is a bit of a ditz? (In terms of stereotyping)...



popkin - Jan 29, 2004 7:07 am (#229 of 1030)
Edited by Jan 29, 2004 7:10 am



Psychedelic Enchantress - Jan 29, 2004 4:04 am (#228 of 228) ....dark blonde/light brown (whichever way you choose to describe it) is the most common hair colour....

Here's a bit of trivia for you, PE. World-wide the most common hair color is by far black. However, in the UK, it could be as you say. Sorry to all that this comment is so far off subject.



Peregrine - Jan 29, 2004 8:25 am (#230 of 1030)

Luckily I just finished a hair chart yesterday and I can tell you that Luna is the only character with “dirty-blonde” hair. Everyone else is either blonde, white-blonde, straw, golden, silvery-blonde, fair-haired, white-gold, or red-blonde.



loony - Jan 30, 2004 4:34 am (#231 of 1030)

Amy, thanks for the link (Could you maybe tell me how to find it, without a direct link? I tried: Wizarding World->Wizards&Witches->students->Luna Lovegood, but there are only a few lines about her), I know this is quite of the topic so feel free to repost it...

About hair color, I don`t believe that this just a coincidence that Luna is the only one with "dirty blond" hair. I actually think it`s a bit weird, that her hair (although she`s one of "the good ones") is described with "dirty" an not "golden" or something.



Czarina - Jan 30, 2004 9:56 am (#232 of 1030)

Perhaps Rowling didn't want to link Luna with the other, less-desirable characters who have blond hair. Maybe she doesn't want to point out a connection with Petunia or the Malfoys.

"Dirty blond" could also be considered "diluted" blond hair -- not pure blond, but more of a light brown. Maybe it's a subtle indication that Luna is not a pureblood? That's farfetched, but it certainly not impossible.



Peregrine - Jan 30, 2004 10:16 am (#233 of 1030)

I need to correct what I said earlier about Luna’s hair… She is the only character described as having “dirty-blonde” hair, but JKR also calls her hair just normal “blonde” in another passage. So lots of characters (including Luna) are known as blond(e), but Luna’s the only one differentiated as being “dirty-blonde”.

And, FYI, the only non-evil/non-obnoxious/non-suspect characters that are also called blond(e) are Hannah Abbot, Firenze, and two unnamed characters. Well, the hair chart’s coming in handy already.

Oh, and “dirty” vs. “golden”…she may not have wanted to compare Luna and Lockhart.



Czarina - Jan 30, 2004 10:52 am (#234 of 1030)

"the only non-evil/non-obnoxious/non-suspect characters that are also called blond(e) are ..."

But when you think of blond Harry Potter characters, which come to mind first? :-)

Maybe Luna doesn't just doesn't wash her hair that much? I think Luna has dark blond hair, which could not be mistaken for brown (hence being called "blond" elsewhere), rather than dark blond that could also be called light brown.

Another theory: a couple years ago, a devoted Harry Potter fan asked JK Rowling why there were no characters in the books with dirty-blond hair. Rowling then decided to give Luna's character dirty-blond hair for variety. I would be tempted to think that Luna is a unique character who deserves a unique hair colour that doesn't link her with the Malfoys!



popkin - Jan 30, 2004 1:45 pm (#235 of 1030)

I like the impure blonde idea - not that her blood is impure (though it may be), but that her blonde hair is not as blond as the Dursleys and the Malfoys.

I trust Luna. She apparentely has some off the wall ideas, but I think she is sincere in her convictions. And she is definitely loyal. I also trust Firenze. Maybe they have some characteristics in common besides blonde hair.



Hem Hem - Jan 30, 2004 4:07 pm (#236 of 1030)

I really like the idea of dirty blond representing an unoristocratic pureblood.

Loony, I don't know if you're still wondering about it, but I think the easiest way to get to the big "luna Lovegood" page on the Lex is to click on the "what's new" link, and follow the entry there. That's how I found it. Good Luck!



Madame Librarian - Jan 31, 2004 6:27 am (#237 of 1030)

Is JKR's telling use of the word "dirty" supposed to alert us to something not so nice about Luna in the past, or just to affirm that how one looks (odd, quirky, dishevled) is not to be used as a character judgment? I ask this because of how Draco hair is the blondest of blond, almost white, which is usually the symbol of purity and goodness.

I can't even begin to imagine what might have tainted Luna's character in the past, unless it was something to do with her mother's accidental death. But I think I'm way off here, so don't jump on me. Baring inadvertant Imperious spells, Luna's on the good side, I feel.

Ciao. Barb



mooncalf - Jan 31, 2004 10:13 am (#238 of 1030)

When I think of white blonde hair like Draco's, I think of the movie starlets who dyed their hair platinum blonde - in that context, that hair color always seemed to symbolize artifice and low moral character - not a bad match for the Malfoys. The Malfoys pervasive blondeness is also reminiscent of Hitler's Aryan ideal - again not a bad match for those who are so keen to purify the race.

Luna's dirty blonde hair, because it is so common, seems to symbolize naturalness. Maybe it's the only ordinary thing about Luna.



Lynn Allen - Jan 31, 2004 7:23 pm (#239 of 1030)

Madame Librarian, I doubt that the fact JKR gave her dirty-blond hair has any connection to Luna's character. I actually wondered whether it might be a comment on how often she washed her hair! (What week is this, anyway?) What better to go with the image created by a bottle-cap necklace? I really like Luna and expect she will be a pivotal character, very important to Harry. Why? Umm...I'll get back to you about that!



A-is-for-Amy - Feb 1, 2004 10:35 am (#240 of 1030)

No problem, loony... I found the article under the "What's New" heading.



Luna Lovegood - Feb 8, 2004 12:38 pm (#241 of 1030)

I would have to say that Luna has become my favorite character! She is strong, independent, and believes in things she may not even see. I have some similarities with Luna, maybe that is why she is my favorite. I am hoping to read alot more about Luna in the following books. I hope there are a lot more Luna Lovegood fans out there!



alexa - Feb 23, 2004 11:46 pm (#242 of 1030)

I am not sure about this, but I somehow think that there is a connection between Lupin and Luna. Lupin is nicknamed 'loony loopy' while Luna is also nicknamed 'loony'.

Any thoughts about this?



Essidji - Feb 24, 2004 1:00 am (#243 of 1030)

True, and we can also say that Luna refers to the moon, while Lupin's nickname is Moony...



Psychedelic Enchantress - Feb 24, 2004 5:00 am (#244 of 1030)

And I can well imagine Lupin being likewise regarded as strange. Snape can't have been the only student wondering the reason behind his frequent illness and disappearances... Like Luna, he has had to develop a taste for his own company, as other people misunderstand him.

There are many similarities between our favourite werewolf and our favourite flake, and I would love to see them explored...



Peregrine - Feb 26, 2004 8:10 pm (#245 of 1030)

Along the same lines, it would have been nice to see how Lupin treated Luna in class. Maybe in the next book they'll interact.



Czarina - Feb 27, 2004 6:27 am (#246 of 1030)

Since the wizarding world is so interrelated, it wouldn't surprise me if Lupin is Luna's uncle or first cousin-once removed. From what I guess, the Lupins and the Lovegoods are pureblood families. It could be entirely possible that Remus and Luna are that closely related. Maybe he is her godfather? She could have been named "Luna" because it sounds close to "Lupin."

Maybe like all good teachers who have to teach their close relatives, Lupin treated Luna like any other student in DADA. She would only have been a second-year. Ginny might not have yet become her good friend and thus wouldn't have noticed even if Luna DID get some kind of special treatment from Lupin, which I doubt. Maybe since VWI, Lupin has been that "uncle that no one talks about" in the Lovegood family. Or, if he were Mrs Lovegood's brother, Daddy Lovegood could have distanced himself from his brother-in-law out of grief.



alexa - Feb 29, 2004 8:58 pm (#247 of 1030)

I do believe that it is possible that Luna is Lupin's niece. Lupin's hair is describe as light brown while Luna's hair is describe as 'dirty blonde' Their hair colours are quite close right? At least not red or black.



alexa - Mar 4, 2004 11:02 pm (#248 of 1030)

Just continuing my above post. I wonder was it mentioned anywhere there the Lovegoods are pure blood? JKR says Lupin is half-blood, so the possibility that Luna is Lupin's niece is doubtful now.



Czarina - Mar 5, 2004 7:18 am (#249 of 1030)

No, it isn't. Lupin could be a half-blood, but that could mean that either one parent or one grandparent were Muggle. Also, Lupin's magical parent could very well be a sibling to one of the Lovegoods, assuming a great age difference, which would make Lupin and Luna cousins instead. Or Lupin could be a half-sibling to one of Luna's parents. Or his half-blood sister could have married pureblood Mr Lovegood, which would render Luna pureblood if Lupin (and his sister) were children of a Muggleborn and a pureblood.

In other words, I don't think we're any closer to solving this mystery!



mooncalf - Mar 5, 2004 12:37 pm (#250 of 1030)

I don't think that it says anywhere that Lupin is a half-blood. Umbridge describes him as a half-breed, which seems to be a nearly meaningless term she uses indiscriminately to describe anyone who isn't her idea of what a wizard ought to be, as she also uses the same term for Hagrid and for the Centaurs.


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Neville Longbottom - Mar 5, 2004 1:04 pm (#251 of 1030)

Mooncalf, JKR said, that Lupin is a halfblood, in the chat yesterday.



mooncalf - Mar 5, 2004 1:12 pm (#252 of 1030)

Oops, sorry! Just read the interview!



Hogs Head - Mar 15, 2004 8:45 pm (#253 of 1030)

Any thoughts on what Luna's role in the plot and character development scheme might be? Why is she just now emerging in Book 5? Rather startling from a development standpoint for her to come out of nowhere and zoom to the honor roll all in a single volume late in the series -- participating in the MoM battle right beside the main characters of Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville and Gin. Is she now fixed in this stratum?

As to character role, if Hermione sometimes plays the role of narrator, Ron plays the part of the one who needs Hermione's narration, Hagrid the one who knows the secrets and lets them slip when he isn't supposed to (but incidentally just when the Heroes need the information), Dumbledore the one who watches over things and wraps it all up at the end, etc., what role does Luna now play? Maybe that, while Herm. points out the generally accepted view, Luna sometimes states the minority view -- the one folks ponder but are afraid to own up to?

Plot impact is harder to guess. What could not have developed or be developing but for her emergence? (I guess if we knew the balance of the plot, we wouldn't have to wonder -- but then why would we keep on reading?) So I'd love it if all of you Luna-tics can tell me, please, in addition to the emotions and characteristics she adds, what essential element does Luna bring to the story line itself? Surely she was not just a one-time foil to get Harry's version out in the open. As the Malamud character says at the end of The Natural , "Say it ain't so."

(Also, we native blondes love all these blonde remarks, jokes and inferences, even about "dumb blondes" and "dirty blonde hair." It makes us feel like people are talking about us. But we, in turn, really marvel at red hair and jet black hair, so the grass is alway greener and the hair is always blonder.)



Madame Librarian - Mar 15, 2004 8:53 pm (#254 of 1030)

Aside from being a simply wonderful character addition, Luna may serve the purpose of expanding primary circle of protangonists. The story might have become stagnant with every cliff hanger, every plot twist hinging around just three kids. She might represent the unity of the houses idea, since she is not a Gryffindor. She's a clear contrast to Hermione's hyper-logical view of problems, but nonetheless, has a lot to offer by "thinking outside the box."

I will ponder some more on the issue of acutal plot turns in which Luna may play a key role. I do think she will, just can't come up with sample scenarios now...too tired (yawn).

Ciao. Barb



rambkowalczyk - Mar 23, 2004 4:49 pm (#255 of 1030)

Maybe Luna will be prefect for Ravenclaw next year.



Denise P. - Mar 23, 2004 9:23 pm (#256 of 1030)

Much as I like Luna, I can't see her becoming a prefect or even being suggested as one. Her fellow Ravenclaws steal and hide her belongings...I seriously doubt that she would get any kind of cooperation as a prefect. That is assuming she would even remember she was one.



Prefect Marcus - Mar 23, 2004 9:41 pm (#257 of 1030)

I agree, Denise. Luna isn't really prefect material, IMO.

I sure would like to find out what Rowling has in store for her.



Czarina - Mar 24, 2004 7:00 am (#258 of 1030)

"I seriously doubt that she would get any kind cooperation as a prefect. That is assuming she would even remember she was one."

While the first statement is probably true, do we know that it's her fellow Ravenclaws stealing her things? Or if it's only one or two of her fellow Ravenclaws? I had lots of enemies like that when I was thirteen/fourteen. One or two people would always be a problem. The majority of Ravenclaw might just see Luna as crazy or weird, but not be mean to her. They would be surprised if Dumbledore made her a prefect, but they might come to respect her. Time would tell. Besides, Luna has the friendship of the famous Harry Potter and half of Gryffindor! That would change how she is perceived in Ravenclaw. A traitor? Maybe. Probably not. After all, she is still a loyal Ravenclaw -- she cheered for them at Quidditch and earned them House Points.

The second statement seems to be an insult to Luna and her character. She is not stupid! She's aloof and unobservant in some cases, in other cases, she is more perceptive than her classmates. Anyone might momentarily forget they're a prefect, especially at the beginning of the year. ("What, I can use the prefects' bathroom? Oh, right!") I know I would. Character traits also override prefect responsibilities. Ron wanted to go off on adventures, remember? Did he FORGET he was a prefect? Well, no. But certain things were more important to him.



Denise P. - Mar 24, 2004 7:46 am (#259 of 1030)

Does it matter if it is a few of her peers or the majority of her housemates? Any way you look at it, it is her peers, her FAMILY (as McGonnagal stated in PS/SS) that is stealing and hiding her stuff! Since she had to post for her stuff to be returned, we don't get the impression it is a few people picking on her since no one else seems to be doing anything to stop it. I think there is a lot of passive/aggressive picking of Luna being done by many people in her own House.

I am in no way insulting Luna, I LIKE Luna. It is a fact that she is a spacy and dreamy and marches to a drum beat all her own. I never once implied she is stupid, I think she is incredibly intelligent. The fact remains that because she lives in her own world quite often, more mundane aspects could easily be forgotten in the here and now she is in.



Detail Seeker - Mar 25, 2004 1:30 pm (#260 of 1030)

Becoming a prefect would force her to concentrate on the "Real World" a little more and would help her preparation for her future - that´s for shure. But if that will be a good thing for Ravenclaw, is another question. So, I agree with Marcus: No stuff fo a prefect.



Prefect Marcus - Mar 25, 2004 1:49 pm (#261 of 1030)
Edited by Mar 25, 2004 1:49 pm

Luna is a loner. There is nothing wrong with being a loner. But you do not make loners prefects. Why? Because it is a recipe for failure.

You cannot lead and not be part of the group. The group will not willingly follow you. If you have rejected a group and/or the group has reject you, you cannot effective lead. You can use your offical position to order people around, but you really don't lead anybody. Think Umbridge here.



Denise P. - Mar 25, 2004 2:08 pm (#262 of 1030)

Detail Seeker, I think in some cases being made a prefect WOULD force the individual to be more in step with the rest of the world but not in Luna's case. I think Luna is great the way she is and I would hate to see her Luna-ness be taken away by making her become more "normal"



Detail Seeker - Mar 25, 2004 3:10 pm (#263 of 1030)

Denise, I agree with you. Teachers may have different ideas ( they have to) but they should see, where there are limits of what can be taught.

For us as readers, the Luna we were given is perfect. So, I see no difference in our three opinions (including Marcus, here): Putting the prefect´s burden on her would not do good - neither her, as she would fail or have to be closely guided by her Head of the House, nor for the story line.

So, let´s hope JKR leaves us with a Luna developed along the line, she had in in OoP.



Czarina - Mar 25, 2004 5:34 pm (#264 of 1030)

I don't think Luna will be made prefect, either. Were she a prefect, she would have to spend more time with her House and I think she will spend more time with the Gryffindors (she is Ginny's friend, after all). After being part of the Double-Trio at the DoM, I think she will appear more in Bks6&7, along with Ginny and Neville, to offset the Trio. With Harry pulling away from his friends, the others might become (to him) the Five. Luna is seeming to develop a special friendship with Harry. In Bk6, I can see him going to her for advice instead of Hermione. Ginny and Neville will become Harry's friends too, not breaking up the Trio, but expanding the circle that we've become accustomed to as readers.



alexa - Mar 26, 2004 12:42 am (#265 of 1030)

Luna may not be made a Prefect, but Ginny would most probably be made a Prefect, so I think Luna may not be that close to Ginny afterall in book 6. Harry would feel much more lonely, and perhaps become closer to both Neville and Luna.

I still prefer to think that Luna would play Seeker in Quidditch, I believe she does fly well. Way Too Happy



rambkowalczyk - Mar 26, 2004 7:42 am (#266 of 1030)

Someone said that as a loner she might not be considered as a prefect. Was Lupin all that gregarious in Hogwarts? Did he have friends other than James and Sirius? I'll concede that he is more compassionate but what was he like when he was 11-14? He was hiding a pretty big secret.



Rich - Mar 26, 2004 10:03 pm (#267 of 1030)

I think Luna evokes in everyone a sense of who we would like to be if we had the courage. Whereas Hermione is insecure socially and is self-conscious about it Luna is insecure socially but couldn't care less.

When the need arises Luna can have a serious conversation as was demostrated at the end of OotP. And as timrew has mentioned a fair few times on this thread Harry could call upon Luna in the next couple of books to confide in her. They've both been through pretty tough times in their lives.

I thought I'd add this quote:

"An odd feeling rose in Harry; an emotion quite different from the anger and grief that had filled him since Sirius's death. It was a few moments before he realised that he was feeling sorry for Luna. Harry looked at her and the new feeling of pity intensified rather painfully. Harry nodded curtly, but found that for some reason he did not mind Luna talking about Sirius. He had just remembered that she, too, could see Thestrals. They looked at each other. Luna was smiling slightly. Harry did not know what to say, or to think; Luna believed in so many extraordinary things, yet he had been sure he had heard voices behind the veil, too. "Are you sure you don't want me to help you look for your stuff?" She walked away from him and, as he watched her go, he found that the terrible weight in his stomache seemed to have lessened slightly." pg. 760-61 OotP(I've left some stuff out because I got the quote from mugglenet. Sorry, I'm not very good with italics and that stuff.)

I thought I'd add that because I think it shows that Harry has realized that there are others who face hardships and he knows that Luna is one of them.

Does anyone else think Luna could be a bit like DD in that they're a bit eccentric? They're not afraid to be themselves and do and say what they feel most comfortable doing and saying. They don't follow standard conventions like the majority of the WW seems to do blindly and without question.

Sorry for the mish-mash that is this post, but I've only just started browsing through it and I thought I might share some of my thoughts.



Steve Newton - Apr 5, 2004 9:55 am (#268 of 1030)

Luna is a wonderful character. Early in OOTP she says that people always steal her things. Its not a problem, though, because they always bring them back. As I see it, this could mean that she is really liked and respected. That her mates like teasing her and that they all know that it is a joke.

Another interpretation is that she is tough and people really don't want to put her out.

I lean toward the first but remember that she was an active participant an the Battle of the MoM.



Prefect Marcus - Apr 5, 2004 10:45 am (#269 of 1030)

If I had to pick any one characteristic that I really love about Luna, it would be her innate sense of dignity. I was just reading the other night the part where the DA members mount the thestrals. She sat side-saddle and calming arranged her skit like she had been doing this sort of thing all her life.

Luna is cool. What else can be said?



The giant squid - Apr 5, 2004 10:13 pm (#270 of 1030)

I like your comparison of Luna and Dumbledore, rich. Both of them are considered by many to be "a bit mad", and neither of them seems to really give a fig about it.

Uh-oh...here comes a new theory: "Dumbledore is Luna"! Wink



Eponine - Apr 9, 2004 3:19 am (#271 of 1030)

My husband is reading the books (finally) and last night night he turns to me and says, "So, I take it Luna has some goblin in her?"

Of course, I thought he'd lost his mind. But he said that Luna is always talking about goblins (he's got the book, I can't confirm) and that it describes her as having big eyes (don't know what that has to do with goblins either). Well, he's convinced now that she has some kind of connection with goblins. I told him he was nuts, but I thought I'd throw out his theory on here to see what you all make of it. Please feel free to rip it apart.



The giant squid - Apr 9, 2004 3:44 am (#272 of 1030)

I don't know about goblins, but the only creatures I can recall being described as having big eyes (other than Ollivander) are house-elves.

Hmmm...

--Mike



Catherine - Apr 9, 2004 4:01 am (#273 of 1030)

Well, I don't know if Trelawney counts as a creature, but she wears the outsized specs that make her eyes look like huge, like a dragonfly's!

I posted this before, but I'll say it again, that I think Luna's a seer. She's certainly suffered the misunderstanding and persecution that Trelawney goes on about.



Hem Hem - Apr 9, 2004 11:06 am (#274 of 1030)

Catherine, do you mean that all of her weird beliefs could be predictions?

Has she forseen anything interesting yet? It's a pretty cool idea.



Padfoot - Apr 9, 2004 11:33 am (#275 of 1030)

Crumple-Horned Snorkack are real!



Hem Hem - Apr 9, 2004 11:37 am (#276 of 1030)

And Fudge has heliopaths, and bakes goblins into pies...

Hey, they may actually be real (or half-truths), but is she forseeing them per se? I'd like to hear if anybody has evidence or support for the idea.



dobbyiscool - Apr 9, 2004 12:07 pm (#277 of 1030)

She does seem to have a way of sensing things others wouldn't. Like how she noticed the thestrals before Harry had.



timrew - Apr 9, 2004 1:02 pm (#278 of 1030)

Crumple-Horned Snorkack are real!

I can see a new thread developing....."Dumbledore is the Crumple-Horned Snorcack!"

dobbyiscool, I think the reason that Luna could see the Thestrals before Harry is because she saw her mother die some time before. Didn't JKR say that you needed some time for the death to 'sink in' before the thestrals appeared?



Catherine - Apr 9, 2004 2:33 pm (#279 of 1030)

Hem Hem,

The thread I posted in October doesn't come up now, but I postulated then that Luna was on the right track, if not "right on." As a moderator, could you have access? Pretty pretty wizard please?

The example I used then was the earrings that looked like "orange radishes." She was wearring these when she told Harry that she believed him about Voldemort. But remember the article in the Quibbler (the Trio read it on the train) about the runes turning enemy ears into kumquats? I wondered if reading those runes upside down didn't give her those earrings? The point being that she's "sort of" onto things, if not exactly. It does make me wonder about the Heliopaths and Goblin murders. Even a half-truth about those is sobering and thought-provoking.

The original post was much better than this--I'm typing this while fending off my two children and two dogs. AAACKK!!!

Cheers!



Hem Hem - Apr 9, 2004 2:37 pm (#280 of 1030)

If the thread got munched by the auto-deletion, then even all the hostie powers can't summon it. However, maybe it got moved into some other thread....since I don't recall the particular discussion, I can't say how likely that is...maybe the search function could bring up the topic in some form. Good luck!

As for the Quibbler, your post reminded me of something else that was odd. Luna's earrings looked like radishes. And Stubby Boardman claimed to have been out of commision after being hit in the ear by a turnip....

They're not exactly the same, but sure makes me feel suspicious....hhmmmmmm.....



Madame Librarian - Apr 9, 2004 2:54 pm (#281 of 1030)
Edited Apr 9, 2004 4:05 pm

Stubby Boardman?! There's a name from the past. It was the article in Luna's "Quibbler" that mentioned him as really being Sirius Black who had a dinner date with Doris Purkiss. Here's the Lexicon quote:

Boardman, Stubby Lead singer of the Hobgoblins, who retired 'nearly 15 years ago' (c. 1980) after being hit in the ear by a turnip at a concert in Little Norton Church Hall. In the summer of 1995, The Quibbler printed an interview with Doris Purkis, who claimed that 'Sirius Black' was really Stubby Boardman (OP10).

[I checked the book, "Purkiss" does have a double "s" at the end.]

This is what Luna is referring to. Though a minor point after all the excitement at the end of OoP, and the sadness of Sirius's death, it'll be interesting to see what the "Quibbler" and Luna now say about who Sirius really was.

Ciao. Barb

Edit--Don't forget that it was Regulus Black that was thought to have taken on the name and persona of Stubby Boardman. That whole business may turn out to be a red herring (i.e., not of any consequence to the resolution), but no matter, it'll probably be Luna who is our source of the true story.



Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 14, 2004 2:01 am (#282 of 1030)

Thanks for the thoughts Sly Girl re the Quidditch World Cup. I agree that the Lovegood's went for the sensible option and that the Fawcetts were too late. It would be like getting a ticket for a top pop/rock star.

But surely as Luna is in Ravenclaw she must be intelligent, almost to Hermionie's level. Who was it that said that they try to believe on impossible thing before breakfast. Luna is the same. Notice she reads the Quibbler upside down - why? Does she not believe it all?

I guess Luna is like Miss Marple. People ignored the elderly lady because of her supposed scattiness much to their cost - is Luna the same observant person behind the mask of madness? Also, Hermionie was brought up by two scientific muggle parents. Of course she is not going to believe in what she can not see. This explains her eagerness to get it right in the first book. She finds it difficult to cope in the magical world.

Genius and Madness are two sides of the same coin. So are Luna and Hermionie.



Psyche - Apr 14, 2004 4:24 am (#283 of 1030)

I think you mean the Red Queen, from Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass. The Red Queen claims that you can believe in impossible things, as long as you practise hard enough, and since Luna's father is the editor of the Quibbler, she probably has had all the practice she could ask for.

Psyche



Catherine - Apr 14, 2004 4:47 am (#284 of 1030)

Phelim Mcintyre,

Interesting literary comparisons! To answer your question about why Luna reads the Quibbler upside down, I think it's because of the article about reading the runes upside down and turning one's enemy's ears into kumquats.

Remember how we see Luna next and she's wearing earrings that look like "orange radishes?" Maybe it really works, at least somewhat!



Neville Longbottom - Apr 14, 2004 7:09 am (#285 of 1030)

About the Quibbler: It is either because of the runes or because of the quiz. In the last chapter, Ginny solved a quiz in the quibbler and then turned the magazine upside down to see if the answers were correct. It's possible that Luna did the same.



haymoni - Apr 14, 2004 7:13 am (#286 of 1030)

I posted earlier that I wanted to know what Luna saw when she read the Quibbler upside down and someone said that she was just getting the answers to a quiz, like in most magazines.

But I don't think so. She is READING the Quibbler upside down. Not flipping it back and forth like you would when you take one of those quizzes.



Catherine - Apr 14, 2004 8:57 am (#287 of 1030)

I had posted this back in October, but it got munched and now it's gone, so here goes again:

From page 193 OotP, American: "...and an article about ancient runes, which at least explained why Luna had been reading the Quibbler upside down. According to the magazine, if you turned the runes on their heads they revealed a spell to make your enemy's ears turn into kumquats."

From page 261, the next time Harry sees Luna after their arrival at Hogwarts: "Luna was wearing what looked like a pair of orange radishes for earrings..."

Maybe the spell kind of works!

I used this as an example to show how the Quibbler might get things "a little bit right." So maybe Fudge really does have a private army, etc.



Padfoot - Apr 14, 2004 9:04 am (#288 of 1030)

So who are Luna's enemies? The ones turned into kumquats. Wow, if word of Luna's powers got around, nobody would steal her books at school. I would like to see Draco and Pansy turned into a nice pair of earrings.



Catherine - Apr 14, 2004 1:24 pm (#289 of 1030)

Yeah, orange would DEFINITELY be their color!



Rich - Apr 17, 2004 2:10 am (#290 of 1030)
Edited by Apr 17, 2004 3:10 am

So she performed the spell on someone, then cut off their ears and wore them as earrings. A bit "Buffalo Bill-ish".



Sinister Kittens - Apr 17, 2004 2:56 am (#291 of 1030)

Well, wasn't her mother experimenting on herself when she passed away? Sorry - I don't have my books to hand so I cannot give the exact reference.

Maybe Luna was doing the same thing? (Okay, or maybe she just has unusual taste in Jewellery!)



Catherine - Apr 17, 2004 4:59 am (#292 of 1030)

I think Luna tried the runes, and it "gave" her kumquat earrings, instead of turning an enemies ears into kumquats. So the Quibbler is "somewhat" right, just not all there. Hmm, like Luna?

I think the idea that Luna likes to experiment, perhaps like her mom, is a good one.

I've always wondered what kind of experimentation Luna's mom was trying. I know playing with Time has caused disasters. Maybe some kind of Switching Spell or Transfiguration.

I'm wondering if the time frame, Luna being nine, is important. That would make Harry ten, or almost or just turned eleven. Interesting.



Rich - Apr 19, 2004 1:00 am (#293 of 1030)

Wouldn't seeing your mother die in front of your eyes whilst experimenting put you off experimenting? Or does it inspire Luna to continue the noble(or just curious??) work of her mother?



Catherine - Apr 19, 2004 4:48 am (#294 of 1030)

Well, the novels show children following in the paths of their parents. Harry watched his parents die (or at least heard it), and that hasn't stopped him from taking on Voldemort and his Death Eaters. Draco seems to be a lot like Lucius. Even Neville insisted that Harry not give up the Prophecy, no matter what; he stood firm like his parents and even suffered the Cruciatus curse like his parents.



haymoni - Apr 19, 2004 6:01 am (#295 of 1030)

Luna seemed very proud of her mother - I think she said that her mother was very talented.



Chris. - Apr 25, 2004 7:59 am (#296 of 1030)

Could Luna be the long-lost descendant of Rowena Ravenclaw? She seems 'mystical' enough, and I think she's quite intelligent underneath her dozy image. I can't find anything saying Luna confirming that her mother was smart, but in her words, she was 'quite an extrordinary witch'.



NYCNomad - Apr 28, 2004 10:26 am (#297 of 1030)

sorry if this has been bought up, but I gotta ask. I'm reding book 5 again and on p. 776 Luna says something like, " OH, You know what could be behind that door?" She asked excitedly" In refrence to the locked door in the Dept. of Mysterys. I can't spell, but you get the picture. Any thoughts? It sounds like she knows what it might be but she never says.



Padfoot - Apr 28, 2004 11:16 am (#298 of 1030)

Her father's paper is always coming up with crazy off the wall theories (not unlike this forum ). I bet she was guessing one of those was in the room. Of course she could be right too.



Chris. - Apr 28, 2004 11:42 am (#299 of 1030)

There was a room that burned the penknife Sirius gave to Harry.

There was some speculation that it could be Heliopaths, which are fire-demons. Luna mentioned at the DA Hogsmeade meeting in the Hog's Head. Hermione, however, said they didn't exist.



Chemyst - Apr 28, 2004 2:19 pm (#300 of 1030)

Heliopaths? Cool! ...or not so cool actually, but you know what I mean. I do hope book seven will give us a scene where Hermoine is confronted with the reality of one of Luna's "fantasies."


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Verbina - Apr 28, 2004 8:33 pm (#301 of 1030)

hehe that would certainly put a knot in Hermione's hair now wouldn't it??



Phelim Mcintyre - Apr 29, 2004 3:10 am (#302 of 1030)

At the end of Order of the Phoenix doesn't Dumbledore say something about a room that is kept locked? That it contains a power worse than death, and that it was the power in that room that Harry possesses. Something along the lines of his love for Sirius.

Any way, who says what Luna is talking about are fantasies? Yes I can find much about snorks on the web, except cartoon characters, but heliopaths are real.



Liz - Jun 1, 2004 1:28 pm (#303 of 1030)

Yeah Dumbledore does say something about that force. What I would like to know is how aquired such power if the room was locked?

I bet if Luna got wind of this then she would make up all sorts of stories.

Beth



SarcasticGinny - Jun 1, 2004 7:15 pm (#304 of 1030)

Wasn't it snorkacks or something to that effect?



Liz - Jun 1, 2004 8:46 pm (#305 of 1030)

Sure it was.

< looks around uneasily >

Beth



The giant squid - Jun 1, 2004 10:53 pm (#306 of 1030)

Crumple-horned snorkacks, if you want to be picky (and you know we all do Wink ). I think it's been determined that they're completely made-up by JKR...but that doesn't mean they don't exist in the Wizarding World.

--Mike



Bertha Jorkins - Jun 8, 2004 6:28 pm (#307 of 1030)

I think that Luna likes Ron. She might give Hermoine a run for her money.

What does everyone else think???

My first time to post. Hope I am doing it right.



S.E. Jones - Jun 8, 2004 7:22 pm (#308 of 1030)

Welcome Bertha, you might want to take a look at our 'Ship thread that discusses relationships (or 'ships, as we say).



riquelme - Jun 9, 2004 11:18 pm (#309 of 1030)

I hope she doesn't recede to the backstage in the last two books.



Czarina II - Jun 11, 2004 7:55 am (#310 of 1030)

She won't. She wasn't introduced at all until OoP and instead of taking a baskseat role in that book, she joined the principal cast! It's fair to say JKR wants to keep her in and that she serves a purpose to the plot.



Marie E. - Jun 11, 2004 4:30 pm (#311 of 1030)

Just think of all the new information about the wizarding world we learned through Luna. And her father's paper will probably be put to use again. Yes, I believe we haven't see the end of Luna Lovegood.



Verbina - Jun 13, 2004 8:58 pm (#312 of 1030)

Plus she is so darned quirky. And I do love quirky. ^_^ She just has to be around.



Liz - Jun 16, 2004 10:16 am (#313 of 1030)

We'll probably learn more about Luna in the next books, and her Dad would probably want another interview with Harry since the last one was such a success.

Yep, the hole seeing death thing might link Harry and Luna even more, not that I'm saying that they're going to date or anything like that, but what I am saying is that Luna and HRH, Neville, and Ginny are almost destined to become a click as it were. After all, HRH became a click after the hole troll incident in PS, so this hole DoM thing might link these people a group.

"We are as strong as we are united, and as weak as we are divided."



HP Sleuth - Jun 25, 2004 11:41 pm (#314 of 1030)

I don't want to annoy anyone by bringing up a topic not discussed in awhile (hehe), but on JK Rowling's website ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] which, by the way, is in Flash, URGH, I can't copy and paste), she talks about the "long lost Weasley cousin", and so here is the quote...lots of typing, and late at night, so forgive me for typing errors.

Mafalda(Goblet of Fire)

"I have spoken before now about the Weasley cousin who made it quite a long way in 'Goblet of Fire' before I cut her. I really liked her as a character and did not want to sacrifice her, but she just wasn't doing the job she was supposed to do so she had to go.

Mafalda was the daughter of the 'second cousin who's a stockbroker' mentioned in 'Philosopher's Stone'. This stockbroker had been very rude to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley in the past, but now he and his (Muggle) wife had inconveniently produced a witch, they came back to the Weasleys asking for their help in introducing her to wizarding society before she starts at Hogwarts. The Weasleys agreed to taking her for part of the Summer, Including the Quidditch World Cup, but regretted this almost immediately. Mrs. Weasley suspected that Mafalda's parents simply wanted to get rid of her for awhile, because she turns out to be the most upleaseant child Mrs. Weasley has ever met.

Mafalda was supposed to convey certain information about the Death Eaters to Harry, Ron and Hermione, because as a nosy, eavesdropping Slythering who likes to impress, she does not keep her mouth shut when she overhears their sons and daughters talking. Unfortunately, however bright I made her, there were obvious limitations to what an eleven year old closeted at school sould discover, whereas Rita Skeeter, whom I subsequently built up to fulfill Mafalda's function, was much more flexible.

The best thing about Mafalda was that she was a match for Hermione. To the latter's horror, Mafalda was highly gifted and a real show-off, so that Hermione was torn between deploring the rule-breaking and longing to join in and beat her."

The point of this quote is that Luna is not the long-lost Weasley cousin that everyone has been talking about. Also, the JK Rowling website has quite a few clues to clever people who read in betwixed the lines ;-).

By the way, this is my first post...I finally decided that I would submit my own ideas after reading everyone else's ideas...tell me if I did anything wrong. Also, I'm kind of new to HTML and the interface is kind of confusing to me, and I know that this probably not the best place to discuss HTML, so (takes a deep breath), could anyone point me in the right direction?



S.E. Jones - Jun 26, 2004 12:26 am (#315 of 1030)
Edited Jun 26, 2004 1:30 am

HP Sleuth, you can ask anything you want about HTML on the 'How Do You....?' thread and then practice what you learn on the 'Practice Area For New Techniques' thread. Here's a link to a post I made on some basic HTML commands for posts.

I hope this helps. If you have general questions about the Forum and how it operates, ask the Hosts on the 'Questions for the Hosts' thread and we'll be happy to answer.



HP Sleuth - Jun 26, 2004 1:36 pm (#316 of 1030)

Thanks!



total hatred - Jun 27, 2004 5:42 pm (#317 of 1030)

Maybe Miss Rowling will use Luna to replace Hermione as Harry female best friend in order to set up for a romance between Hermione and Harry.Maybe she regretted saying the two will be platonic friends. She may be planning to make them an item.

Luna is the best person to be his bestfriend. They have many things in common and her magical abilities is at par with Harry.

It is just me or you may have noticed it. I saw many implications that Hermione is chasing Harry. Many will diagree with me since most of you are Ron+Hermione shippers. You may argue it as she is doing it as a fiend but in my opinion she is overdoing it in term of the friendship level. She is helping him even he never asked her to do it.

Luna is perfect catalyst to ignite that romance. It will take one misunderstood action from Luna to force Hermione to stop using covert tactics to get Harry and take the more aggressive approach



HP Sleuth - Jun 27, 2004 6:05 pm (#318 of 1030)

Hmmm.....extreme hatred....personally, I am a Ron+Hermy shipper, I think it's glaringly obvious JKR is setting them up. Anyways, I think that your idea is in the right direction - with one change. Hermy is actually chasing Ron, and Luna will make Hermy jealous enough to chase Ron. However, this probably isn't the right place to be discussing their 'ships. Maybe we should move this thread to the 'Ship-'Ship place. Until then, I also think that Ron is too afraid to admit that he likes Hermy, so I think that it will take something amazing to actually get Ron and Hermy together. Perhaps it will take Luna chasing Ron. and Hermy pretending to chase someone else (Dean or Seamus?) for them to finally realize that they like each other.



S.E. Jones - Jun 27, 2004 6:06 pm (#319 of 1030)
Edited Jun 27, 2004 7:16 pm

total hatred, there is no reason to post the same post in several different threads. I believe this is the third time I've ran across this particular one. You only need to post an idea once, and it will get seen. We have too many threads and too many posters posting on daily basis for people to make double posts. It is okay for threads topics to overlap and references to be made to other posts or quotes to be taken from other posts, but posting the same thing on multiple threads is a bit tedious for other readers. Please try to confine posts to a particular thread in the future.

Thanks!

P.S. Please move the 'shipping topic to the 'Ship-'Ship thread....



Weeny Owl - Jun 28, 2004 9:53 am (#320 of 1030)

Interesting that on JKR's website she mentions that Luna is her favorite new character.

I can see all sorts of possibilities for Luna, including helping Neville find a cure for his parents. Her mother experimented with spells so who knows what she's capable of.

It's been mentioned before that with Peeves calling Lupin "Loony" and Luna being called "Loony," that there might be a connection with her finding a cure for his condition.



shoe - Jul 4, 2004 3:04 am (#321 of 1030)

I think Luna is the best thing about Phoenix! She's great! I've not read all the posts on this thread yet because I've not been on the forum for ages, and there's loads of them. Surely some of us must think that Harry and Luna might get it together though? I'm CERTAIN that it's Hermionie and Ron, and not Hermionie and Harry. If you watch the JKR interview on the Chamber Of Secrets DVD shekind of agress with this.

Also, I think that we might see a bit more of Luna as a catalyst for action, like with the Skeeter interview. Without Luna, that wouldn't have happened. She may play an important part to the plots to come.

Also, the Idea that her Mum just blew herself up one day? There's more to that story than Rowling is letting on I'm sure!

Sorry if I've repeated things that have already been said!



total hatred - Jul 4, 2004 3:28 pm (#322 of 1030)

Sorry to disgree to your point. In my humble opinion, Ron and Hermione will only be together if and only if Ron will deflate his bloated ego.

Back to the topic, Luna and Harry ship is feasible. They have lots in common and I can't have help but notice the chemistry betweeen the two of them.



shoe - Jul 4, 2004 3:36 pm (#323 of 1030)

hmm, I hear what you say. I'm not sure that Ron and Hermionie will actually get together during the books, but the chemistry is certainly there!

Harry needs a girl who won't be starstruck (and Luna is starstruck by everything and nothing), but who he can talk to about things. I can't see JKR leaving Harry unlucky in love forever, and at the moment I think Luna is the only possible love match. Mind you, who knows what Rowling is planning?



Anna Osipova - Jul 4, 2004 3:44 pm (#324 of 1030)

I can see Harry and Luna together, but possibly when they're older. Whilst Luna may be able to understand Harry, it seems that she is unable to properly voice that comprehension yet. She's a bit too, well, loony at this point. It seems that right now, Harry needs someone to comfort him, not just understand him.

However, on a side-note, I'm a Ron and Hermione shipper all the way. Smile



total hatred - Jul 4, 2004 3:52 pm (#325 of 1030)

It is rare to find H/R and H/Hr shipper agree in some points. By the way, I am sort of H/Hr shipper.



Julia. - Jul 4, 2004 7:55 pm (#326 of 1030)

Er, guys, I hate to sound too much like a moderator (which I'm not) but why are we we talking about Harry/Hermione and Ron/Hermione on a Luna thread?



shoe - Jul 5, 2004 1:02 am (#327 of 1030)

Sorry Julia, that's kinda my fault, but it is relevant!

We've sort of been talking about Harry/Luna romance v's Harry/Hermionie romance which sort of makes it ok to talk about the Ron/Hermionie romance doesent it?



popkin - Jul 5, 2004 1:20 am (#328 of 1030)

I'm not a moderator either, but FYI there is a thread just for all the shippers. We try to keep all the romance discussions in that thread. Thanks.



shoe - Jul 5, 2004 1:36 am (#329 of 1030)

Whats a shipper?



shoe - Jul 5, 2004 1:47 am (#330 of 1030)
Edited Jul 5, 2004 2:49 am

Ignore that, found the thread, and I will read it with interest when I get home from work tonight :-)

However, I think that a big part of the reason for Luna's introduction at this point is, well I've said it already.

That, and to make things happen.

Also, you know how JKR has some people who are 'more magic' than others? For some reason I think Luna is EXTREMELY MAGIC

I'd love to take out a subscription with the Quibbler!



Denise P. - Jul 5, 2004 8:11 am (#331 of 1030)

Well, I am a moderator so I can say that popkin and Julia are correct. Any romance or relationship discussions should take place on the 'Ship, 'Ship thread, not on the specific character thread.



Cuivienen - Jul 6, 2004 6:01 am (#332 of 1030)

Interesting that on JKR's website she mentions that Luna is her favorite new character.

What other new characters do we have? Not many -- Umbridge, Bellatrix, Luna and Tonks and a few underdeveloped (characterwise) Aurors and Death Eaters. While I'd imagine Umbridge to be fun to write, Luna is still the obvious choice for "favorite character," as she's a good character and appears throughout the book (and she's easy to relate to), so the quote doesn't mean much. Also, Luna, while a favorite new character, is still not on JKR's list of favorite characters.



Prefect Marcus - Jul 6, 2004 9:43 am (#333 of 1030)

Denise,

Unless it is so radical that it merits its own thread.

;-)



Chemyst - Jul 6, 2004 5:28 pm (#334 of 1030)
Edited Jul 6, 2004 6:29 pm

Back to shoe's comment, "For some reason I think Luna is EXTREMELY MAGIC," seems to be a fair assessment. The "some reason" could be (1) she takes after her mother who was "a quite extraordinary witch," (2) she came through the battle in the DoM in better condition than most, (3) she seems to be tuned in to 'magic all around her,' almost to the point of living in a dream world, (4) her father's liberal attitude toward the existence of Crumple-horned Snorkacks seems to have carried over into his parenting, so she has not been pressured to repress these qualities to appear "more normal" and, if consistent with his editorial views, he's actually provided a home environment where her gifts are nurtured, and (5) extremely gifted people are often seen as being peculiar, and she most certainly is that!



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 11, 2004 7:47 am (#335 of 1030)

I think that Luna will definatly play a bigger role in the next book. She definatly does have that special connection with Harry. I think that both Luna and Neville will become closer to Harry, especially if Ron and Hermione start a relationship(which I'm almost positive they will)



total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 2:50 pm (#336 of 1030)

I believe Luna is far much better in magic than Hermione. Not all magic skills can be learned by books. If Harry will not be paired to Mione, I put my money on Luna.

Ron and Hermione starting a relationship. I believe that will never happen. If that happen, It will be shortlived since Hermione is very good friend to Harry. I not talking at the romance angle only the friendship angle. Basing on Ron temperament, he can easily get jealous and that can spell the end of the ship.



Catherine - Jul 11, 2004 4:36 pm (#337 of 1030)

Total hatred wrote, "I believe Luna is far much better in magic than Hermione. Not all magic skills can be learned by books. If Harry will not be paired to Mione, I put my money on Luna."

I'm just going to address Luna's magic here, as there is a whole other thread devoted to 'ships. ( Also, and this is just my opinion, I really wish you would not call Hermione "Mione.")

I'm not sure if there is actual evidence in the novels for Luna to be "much better" at magic than Hermione. We know that Luna is adept at betwitching hats, but we don't see her performing magic as often as Hermione. Hermione has already shown herself to be adept at a N.E.W.T. level charm, she can produce a patronus, and she learns very quickly in the D.A. lessons.

Now, I would agree with you that Luna may be gifted in ways that other students are not. I strongly suspect that she is a Seer, and that is indeed something that can not be learned through books. We also know that Hermione has no inclination for Divination!



Prefect Marcus - Jul 11, 2004 7:50 pm (#338 of 1030)

Hermione's magical ability seems to be very broad, but very shallow. In other words, she can do many, many spells, but she doesn't seem to have a great deal of power behind much of it.

Take the Patronus spell for instance. Harry has a big, strong intimidating stag. Hermione has this little gamboling otter. Not too many people are intimidated by otters.

I get the impression that Luna does not have as broad of magical ability as Hermione, but what she does do, she is very good at it.

Marcus



Ff3girl - Jul 11, 2004 11:18 pm (#339 of 1030)
Edited Jul 12, 2004 12:21 am

Yes, Hermione does have an otter and Harry has a stag. But the form of the patronus does not represent how powerful it is, it represents what animal would closely represent that person. I think its kind of unfair to write Hermione off as not powerful when we haven't really seen her magic used in that sense.

We've seen Harry's magic overcome Voldemort's in the graveyard, and we've seen it repel a hundred or so dementors, but Hermione hasn't really had a chance to prove or disprove her magical abilities. I think all the magic we've seen her do so far has been not in life-threatening situations or else they were spells that didn't require a lot of power, like regular curses and jinxes.

I think its only fair to say for now that we don't know how powerful Hermione is.

And since this is a Luna thread... (sorry, didn't mean to go off topic) I think we could probably say the same thing about Luna.

By the way, why do so many people think she is a seer? I think it would fit her personality, but I don't really know if there is any kind of clues for it. Anybody?



The giant squid - Jul 12, 2004 12:00 am (#340 of 1030)

By the way, why do so many people think she is a seer? I think it would fit her personality, but I don't really know if there is any kind of clues for it. Anybody?



I think the main point folks use for the "seer" theory is her big eyes. Trelawney is described as having glasses that make her eyes look huge, and the symbolism of large eyes meaning better "seeing" ability. If you look through past posts you'll find other arguments for and against.

Personally, I haven't formed an opinion on it yet. I just think she's quirky and fun, and hope she shows up a lot in the next two books. And I hope she brings a couple Crumple-Horned Snorkacks with her! Smile

--Mike



Sir Tornado - Jul 12, 2004 12:01 am (#341 of 1030)

You know, Luna seems to be in her own world quite often. I think she sees flashes of future during that time (pure speculation). I also strongly suspect she's a werewolf. She also gives me the impression of being very clever. I got this impression when we were described her appearance. It struck to be as being too odd. Then I remembered, guys like Edison or Einstien did not care about their appearance either did they. I think she is in their league. She is after all in Ravenclaw.

--CHEERS--



Prefect Marcus - Jul 12, 2004 6:29 am (#342 of 1030)

Ff3girl,

You are, of course, correct about the relative power of patroni. But you must admit that Hermione has yet to do big, powerful things in the books. The movies have it differently, but in canon her magic is little simple things like Lumos, Alohamora, Accio, and the like. Yes, she did the NEWT-level Protean spell on the coins, but it is still a fairly limited spell.

In the DoM battle, Hermione was one of the first to go down. Luna was one of the last. Of course, that is not really fair. McGonagall went down without much of a fight at all, but only a fool would assert McGonagall is a weak witch.



Catherine - Jul 12, 2004 7:00 am (#343 of 1030)

Marcus--"In the DoM battle, Hermione was one of the first to go down. Luna was one of the last. "

One could argue that this happened because Hermione was doing a great deal of the fighting. I realize Ron, Ginny, and Luna were "off screen," so to speak, during much of the battle, and therefore we didn't see their spell-work. But Hermione was actively engaged in fighting, and therefore seemed to increase her chance of injury. Hermione was "Stupefy-ing," and "Silencio-ing," "Colloportus-ing," "Accio-ing," and "Impediment-ing" all over the place. JKR shows that Hermione was central to that battle.

By Luna's own admission, some of their time was spent, "just floating in the dark." (OoP, p. 795, Scholastic).



Ff3girl - Jul 12, 2004 8:08 am (#344 of 1030)

Prefect Marcus: But you must admit that Hermione has yet to do big, powerful things in the books.

Yes! That is exactly what I was saying. We haven't seen her try to do powerful magic yet, so we don't know if she's capable of it.

I don't think being one of the first or last to go down at the MOM really is a fair assessment of who is more powerful. A lot of it had to do with luck-- how many DE's were in the room surrounding them? Were they being targeted by a certain DE? Its just like in real war; if a soldier gets shot down, it doesn't make him any less of a soldier. He was just unlucky.



Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 11:10 am (#345 of 1030)

Its just like in real war; if a soldier gets shot down, it doesn't make him any less of a soldier. He was just unlucky. --Ff3 Girl.

Ff3 Girl, it is a real war they were fighting. Yes, Hermione was involved in a lot of fighting, and Luna, Ron and Ginny might have spent a lot of time floating in dark, but even that was hazardas. Ron got all funny, Ginny had a broken ankle, but Luna however was still unscathed when she joined Harry. She's either very powerful or very lucky. Either way, it's still great.



total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 11:44 am (#346 of 1030)

Plus Luna is calm under pressure.



haymoni - Jul 13, 2004 11:48 am (#347 of 1030)

I think Luna is oblivious under pressure.



Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 11:51 am (#348 of 1030)

I think Luna doesn't feel pressured at all.



total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 12:11 pm (#349 of 1030)

As if she knows that everything will be okay



haymoni - Jul 13, 2004 12:26 pm (#350 of 1030)

I still wonder what her mother was working on - was it actually a spell that went bad or something else?


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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 12:31 pm (#351 of 1030)

Great Point Total Hatred. Now I have really begun to think she's a seer.



total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 12:40 pm (#352 of 1030)

Maybe it is an Experimental Charm. I still can't understand why it killed her.

This may be far fetched but I believe that spell that killed Luna's mother can handy to Harry and friends. I believed that in moments of no hope, Luna will cast the spell as a desperation attack to save someone more likely Harry.



Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 1:02 pm (#353 of 1030)

Hmm, a charm that could kill? I never gave this a second thought. I suppose it wouldn't be unforgivable. So, no life sentence in Azkaban. I 'gree with you Total, this could be useful. I wonder if Luna or at least her Father knows about this Charm.



haymoni - Jul 13, 2004 4:51 pm (#354 of 1030)

How old was Luna when her mother died? Was it 6?

Was anything unusual going on in the Wizarding World at that time?

I mean, was it really a spell gone bad or did someone do in Mrs. Lovegood?



Catherine - Jul 13, 2004 5:54 pm (#355 of 1030)

Luna's mum died when Luna was nine. One her mum's spells went wrong, and that's all we really know. (OoP, p. 863)



Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 7:10 pm (#356 of 1030)

Yep, Luna was nine when her mother had the accident. So, she might remember the spell. Well, may be she won't. Any way, Catherine-- say Happy Birthday to Daisy. Just one question: Isn't Daisy 4 years old? So, how come she turns one on July 14?



Catherine - Jul 14, 2004 4:40 am (#357 of 1030)

I really would like to know what Luna's mum was trying to do when the spell went wrong, but I guess it would be rude for Harry to ask at this point.

I used to wonder if she had been experimenting with Time, as I know that can have disastrous results, but Luna does indicate that it was a spell.

(Tornedo, I answered your question on the chat thread! Smile )



Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 14, 2004 8:07 am (#358 of 1030)

On the Luna/Hermione issue - as people have mentioned we know that Hermione was in the thick of the battle. This is probably a sign of her hot headedness. But as to why Luna survived longest - they did not want to take Harry out because of his importance re the prophecy, but as Luna's father is the editor of the Quibbler did the Death Eaters decide Luna was too silly to think about. Hermione on the other hand has non-wizard parents and appeared to be threat. Put simply I guess the Death Eaters dismissed Luna as a harmless eccentric while Hermione rushed in head first without thinking.



Catherine - Jul 14, 2004 8:20 am (#359 of 1030)

Phelim,

I doubt that most Death Eaters knew who Luna was, or that she was even a harmless eccentric, as you termed it.



mike miller - Jul 14, 2004 9:35 am (#360 of 1030)

My impression of Luna's mother's death was not that the spell itself killed her but more likely a side effect. For example, the spell went wrong and a post supporting the ceiling disappeared and the ceiling collapsed, or something like that.



haymoni - Jul 14, 2004 9:37 am (#361 of 1030)

Oh - that's even more tragic!

I'm with Harry though - Luna believe such extraordinary things yet she heard something through the veil, she could see the thestrals - I think he may be more willing in the future to believe what Luna says.



[«--, --» pyro]--» pyro «-- - Jul 14, 2004 11:04 am (#362 of 1030)

Luna has risen to be my second favorite character because she and I have a lot in common: at school, we're considered weirdos and have our stuff stolen (once for me), we believe in ridiculous things, and I have incredibly big eyes and sort of a dreamy way of talking. Except while she's incredibly calm about everything, I'm more of a think about all consequences and such.

Still, Luna is highly amusing. And she's a wonderful comfort to Harry in times of stress.

(Harry: I can't do this anymore...I can't fight him again...
Luna: Now, Harry, would the Nargle back down to a Heliopath...even if the Nargle is made of wood and the Heliopath of fire??
Harry: Thanks Luna. You're a wonderful help.)

I think he may be more willing in the future to believe what Luna says.

I agree wholeheartedly. Harry will have faith in her, even if his friends doubt her.



Leila 2X4B - Jul 14, 2004 11:07 am (#363 of 1030)

Cute



Chemyst - Jul 14, 2004 5:44 pm (#364 of 1030)

...Hermione was in the thick of the battle. This is probably a sign of her hot-headedness. -Phelim
No, that would be a sign of her standing too close to Harry.



Anna Osipova - Jul 14, 2004 6:45 pm (#365 of 1030)

Hermione isn't one to usually sit back and watch the show. We've seen this in all her classes. She participates in whatever is going on.

Hermione, IMO, is anything but hot-headed. She, unlike Ron and Harry, thinks things through (trying saying that fast 10 times).

I know there isn't any real proof to back this up (by that, I mean that I didn't include any), but I'm sure you all know what I'm referring to. Feel free to flame!



Ff3girl - Jul 15, 2004 12:37 am (#366 of 1030)

Tornedo: Ff3 Girl, it is a real war they were fighting

Actually, Tornedo, its a fictional war that takes place in a fantasy world. HAHA! Gotcha there! :-P

In all seriousness, I was referring to "real" war as the wars that happen in our "real" world--not magical.

-----------

I agree with you, Anna. Hermione is a person I consider the antithesis of hotheaded! Except when it comes to her emotions, of course. ^_~

If Hermione is the antithesis of hot-headed, then Luna is the... uhm... what's a stronger word for antithesis?? Luna is even more so! But I think that's mainly because she doesn't seem to every let her emotions get in the way with anything.

On the other hand, maybe she does, but I am being deceived by her calm, mystical personality... hm...



Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 1:31 am (#367 of 1030)

Doesn't Luna seem to be a bit like Albus Dumbledore? Only less popular... But she eould certainly go up in Popularity ratings now that she's joined Harry's gang. Of Luna's power though I can't say. It could be any thing. Hey, I just realized... Luna might not be very powerful. In a DA meeting, when they are learning Disarming charm, Luna's work is refered to as "patchy", where as Ginny is refered to as "quite good". Now that means she isn't that good in Magic as many people here claim she is could she?



Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 15, 2004 1:52 am (#368 of 1030)

Catherine, my point was that people dismiss Luna as "loony". Rita Skeeter, due to Hermione does not have contacts in Hogwarts. The Death Eaters do. Many of them have children in Slytherin and they were the Inquistor squad. The incident in the ministry happened after the discovery of Dumbledore's Army, so Luna's part of Harry's gang would have been known. Bellatrix knew who Neville was even though she hadn't seen him before. They Death Eaters were also listening in to the conversations. They quite likely heard Luna's name and dismissed her as irrelivant. This is not to say she is, just that they were prejudice.

But Hermione thinks things through? Polyjuice Potion, hitting Malfoy, walking out on Trelawny. Doing too many subjects. Thought through? I think not.



Ff3girl - Jul 15, 2004 2:01 am (#369 of 1030)
Edited Jul 15, 2004 3:02 am

Like I said, Hermione is the complete opposite of hot-headed except where her emotions are involved. (Trelawny, Malfoy) But there are many times more examples of her thinking things though very carefully. I mean, you could count the number of times she has done something foolish on one hand. (Maybe two.) Compared to everyone else in her year, she's as wise as Dumbledore.

Goodness gracious! Why do I keep going off about Hermione on this thread?

Tornedo, I think you're right about Luna probably not being very powerful. Come to think of it, I can't really remember if she cast any spells as all during the MoM. I'm probably wrong on this, but I can't check it right now.



Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 15, 2004 2:17 am (#370 of 1030)

Ff3girl - I think there is so much about Hermione as she is the easiest to compare/contrast Luna to. There is a lot of discussion about Voldemort's powers as compared to Dumbledore's. So as long as the context is Luna I'm not sure to talk about Hermione or Ginny is out of order. As the Hat considered Ravenclaw for Hermione and Luna is in Ravenclaw. I just think that link is important.

But does taking too many courses in her third year suggest her emotions ruled Hermione's head. And is a battle somewhere where you think things through?



Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 4:27 am (#371 of 1030)

But does taking too many courses in her third year suggest her emotions ruled Hermione's head. --Phelim

Yes and No. On one hand you can argue that she wanted to learn every thing in the magical world out of curiosity, and simply ticked off every subject on the list. That's acting on your emotions. On the other hand, you can argue that she simply wanted to see which subjects were the best and wanted a first hand expirience of all new subjects so that she could decide on which subjects she was good at and drop the remaining in the fourth year.Now that's acting on logic.

But Hermione is very similar to Luna. I mean, why else would we be talking about Hermione on Luna's thread? To put it in a better way; would someone please tell me what Hermione being Hotheaded and acting upon emotions or Logic has to do on this thread? I'm not a Moderator, but I feel this has nothing to do with Luna and this post, and the last 3 posts should be moved to Hermione Granger thread.

Thanks!

Edit: Do I sound like Sarah?



Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 15, 2004 5:16 am (#372 of 1030)

Tornedo - as I said, this was a compare and contrast about the incident in the Ministry of Magic. As long as it doesn't get out of hand (as your post reminds us) its not out of place. Hermione's hotheadedness or logical mind versus Luna's eccentricity.

But you are right. If we want to discuss logic versus hot-headedness then time to visit the Hermione thread. The context is the thing.



Muggle Doctor - Jul 18, 2004 11:26 pm (#373 of 1030)

I agree with those who think there's FAR more to Luna Lovegood than meets the eye.

I believe (and my OH agrees) that she is the ideal match for Harry, at least insofar as a meaningful emotional relationship is concerned. She is able to inspire pity for someone else in him at a time when he feels his problems are the biggest ones in the universe (anyone needing proof of that need only look at how he went off his tree in DD's office). Regardless of whether he believes anything she says, she appears to have absolute faith in him - at the very least, she never really questions anything he says.

It is a pity there wasn't one more with them at the Ministry battle or they could have been the Magnificent Seven: as it is, they are the magnificent six, and if Hermione is the brain, Ginny and the boys the courageous heart, then Luna is very much the soul of the group.

Luna probably isn't much to look at (at least not if you're like any one of Ginny's ex-boyfriends), but Harry's emotional (rather than physical) feelings towards her are already established (even if on a platonic basis), and precede anything else that may develop. I do not think it would take much for him to find that he'd fallen in love with the inner person - possibly without realising how he came to do so.

(Ron and Hermione are far more likely to end up with each other because poor old Harry has been trapped at Privet Drive EVERY SUMMER wtihout the ability to see ANY of his friends, whereas Hermione's parents might - just might - permit one of her Hogwarts friends to visit, and Ron's certainly do. It remains to be seen whether the Order's confrontation with the Dursleys will change this state of affairs: it might.)



Sir Tornado - Jul 19, 2004 1:40 am (#374 of 1030)

Muggle Doctor, I think that post belonged to 'shipping thread.

snowflake [/b]- Jul 22, 2004 4:08 am (#375 of 1030)

I am with Muggle Doctor. At the end of OP, the only person that Harry did not mind to talk about Sirius is Luna. And after talking with her, he felt better. Luna takes things at face value, without too many words, willing to accept and not getting all upset about things. She believes that her things are going to be returned, she does not even bother to look for her "stolen" belongings. There is a calmness in her. I like her a lot.



total hatred - Jul 22, 2004 4:20 am (#376 of 1030)

Maybe JKR is setting up Luna to be Harry new female best friend so he can have a little lovelife



drippan - Jul 22, 2004 5:12 am (#377 of 1030)

snowflake, "At the end of OP, the only person that Harry did not mind to talk about Sirius is Luna. And after talking with her, he felt better."

That is because she is the only person who has lost a parent that he knows!! Even though he did lose his mom and dad, he was way to young to be heart broken. Now that Harry is older, he has to deal with the fact of losing the only other family he has.

Luna was older than Harry when she lost her mother and even witnessed the event. This must have been a devestating blow to her but with love from her dad, she has learned to accept this fact.

Harry doesn't want sympathy (which I can see R/Hr giving) but does have questions. Luna is the only person who can provide the answer.

"Luna takes things at face value, without too many words, willing to accept and not getting all upset about things."

Just goes to show more of her relationship with her dad. As publisher of "The Quibbler", he has learned to take things as they are and think outside the box. When his wife died, he probably did all types of research and came up with his own conclusion and passed them on to Luna.

"I like her a lot."

Who doesn't!! JKR said that she is the character she relates to the most. The reason is that JKR has lost her mother and through the love of friends and family, learned to except that death is a part of life.

DripPan



Prefect Marcus - Jul 22, 2004 8:25 am (#378 of 1030)

Drip Pan, where does Rowling say "she is the character she relates to the most"? I must of missed that.



Catherine - Jul 22, 2004 9:03 am (#379 of 1030)

Drippan, I know that JKR has often said that she was a lot like Hermione, but I haven't been able to find a reference that says that Luna is the one JKR relates to the most.

I agree with you, though, that JKR has been profoundly affected by the loss of her mother, and that Luna shares that trait.



drippan - Jul 22, 2004 10:10 am (#380 of 1030)

I think, I knew, I did something.......hmmmmmm, trying to find the website or something along that way where it said that she could relate to her........

I'll keep researching but I could stand corrected (but I'm absolutely, almost certainly, that I could have read that somewhere, maybe.......).

Any help from any one out there on how JKR feels about Luna would be of great assistance and I would gladly buy you a butterbeer or two!!

DripPan



mike miller - Jul 22, 2004 11:47 am (#381 of 1030)

I think the JKR quote regarding Luna was that she was her favorite "new" character.

As far as Harry talking about Sirius with Luna, I think it was more of her being at the right place at the right time. Yes, it may have taken longer for Harry to talk with Ron and Hermione because he can anticipate their reactions.

I hope that we find in HBP that part of Luna's personality is a facade. She uses it to protect herself and has perpetuated the characterization even as she has grow more mature. Otherwise, I would find Luna a little too far from reality to be useful in the storyline and thus an unwanted distraction. (No offense meant to the Luna fans out there).



Eponine - Jul 22, 2004 7:39 pm (#382 of 1030)

I love Luna, and I definitely agree with drippan about why Harry felt better after talking to her. Its much easier to talk things over with someone who has experienced the same thing as you have, especially things with such emotional significance. Also, I don't know about the rest of you, but at times I have found it easier to talk about things like that with people I don't necessarily know as well as some of my other friends.

I hope Luna sticks around, and that we get to learn more about her in the future books.



ShelterGirl - Jul 23, 2004 5:08 pm (#383 of 1030)

Eponine, DripPan, and Snowflake- Absolutely. It somehow seems easier to talk to people you are friendly with rather than your best friends sometimes. Maybe because the best friends always have a tendency to want to "fix" things for you, whereas a "casual" aquaintance can step back and provide an objective point of view. I think that Luna has the potential to become a very good friend to Harry. And it's great to me that he pretty well ignores what most people think about her and extends the hand of friendship anyway.



drippan - Jul 24, 2004 3:14 am (#384 of 1030)
Edited Jul 24, 2004 4:17 am

ShelterGirl, "And it's great to me that he (Harry) pretty well ignores what most people think about her (Luna) and extends the hand of friendship anyway."

That's how Harry is going to win the war but not with just making friends with Luna.

mike miller, "I hope that we find in HBP that part of Luna's personality is a facade. She uses it to protect herself and has perpetuated the characterization even as she has grow more mature."

I look at Luna as one of the most mature individual out there! She appears to be quite responsible, intelligent, and doesn't let anything bother her. She is very non-judgemental also to other people. She is her own person who is making her own tracks in the world without letting socially accepted ideas or other people influence the way she thinks. Some take this as a sign of being a genius.

The only fault that I might have with her is her lack of taking things seriously at times. Most of the time this doesn't bother me, at other times, it does.

For example, it doesn't bother me what she wears or that she posts messages at the end of the year. What does bother me is her nonchalantly way in the DoM. I would be the type of person who would run around saying "DE's are after us!" and come up with a plan. Luna pretty much takes this in stride.....(at least that's the way I read it).

In future books, she will be one of the planners. She's the one who thinks "outside the box" and I would love to see one of her ideas incorporated to attack LV or his DE's.

DripPan



Magika - Aug 2, 2004 9:44 am (#385 of 1030)
Edited Aug 2, 2004 10:46 am

I think Harry will develop a deep friendship with Luna for many reasons. For once, she's weird. HArry is considered weird by most of the school. He relates to her. Secondly, she forces his grief away from his mind. She has experienced painful things too, but she's survived. Thirdly: she's real. She's not Cho Chang, who was pretty but difficult. She's not Hermione, who is constantly worried about him. Luna is neutral. Luna speaks her mind, and doesn't care what others think about her.

I think Harry may need a friend like this. A friend to be calm with, who doesn't panic, who cares about him, but at the same time has things on her own.

And as for Lunas weirdness being a facade... I totally agree. I think she's hiding parts of herself from the public. I hope we'll get to know her much better in the coming books!!!

-Si-



total hatred - Aug 2, 2004 1:22 pm (#386 of 1030)

I agree with you Magika. I sense deeper qualities within her. In fact, I consider her a perfect girl for Harry.



Magika - Aug 2, 2004 2:59 pm (#387 of 1030)

Yey! Me too, total hatred. Perfect girl for Harry. So few people I've met agree with me, but the girl's made Harry turn his feelings around, for cryin' out loud... Smile

-Si-



drippan - Aug 2, 2004 3:07 pm (#388 of 1030)

Magika, "but the girl's made Harry turn his feelings around, for cryin' out loud... Smile"

So did Ginny at Christmas! Harry felt down and out after going to St Mungo's. Ginny reminded him that she also was possessed by LV. Harry said he forgot and said "I'm sorry". Ginny set him straight.

I like to see Neville and Luna. Harry's been on enough crazy adventures to more than satisfy him. Neville has never had any fun...

DripPan



Magika - Aug 2, 2004 3:31 pm (#389 of 1030)
Edited Aug 2, 2004 4:33 pm

Well, yeah... but Ginny's had her turn. Harry didn't love her then. Why should he now? Luna offers him something more than Ginny does - she's as weird as he feels! Even weirder! At the start of OotP, he doesn't think she is much fun, he's embarrassed by her, but she grows on him, and eventually, she finds her nice to be with.

I sence something between Luna and Harry, and understanding of some kind. Ginny's just there. She's his best friends little sister, who happens to have been possessed by Voldemort.

-Si-

EDIT: As for Neville and Luna... I don't think that would be a success... She's much to wild for him, I see Neville together with a nice, shy girl, not a wild straight-forward girl like Luna... But the theory is indeed interesting...



drippan - Aug 2, 2004 3:56 pm (#390 of 1030)

"but Ginny's had her turn."

Ginny had a crush on Harry, not love. BIG DIFFERENCE!! She no longer has a crush but does understand Harry now. And did she really had her turn? Cho did. But her and Harry have never been on a date.......

"Harry didn't love her then. Why should he now?"

He learned his lesson from dating Cho. He now knows that looks aren't everything. Right now, he is dealing with the death of his god father and the prophecy. And Harry is very less emotionally developed when it comes to the affairs of the heart. With this, he can change his mind. This can be for either Luna, Hermione or Ginny.

"She's his best friends little sister..."

and Ron doesn't have a problem with that and pretty much gave the go ahead to Harry!! OftP, train ride home:

Ron to Ginny, "Good for you. Just choose someone--better--next time."

He (Ron) cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it.

Ron pretty much gave Harry a sly look saying it's okay with him if she dated Harry!!

I think Ron would love Harry to date Ginny. Why? If they get married (H/G), Ron's best friend would actually become his brother!

DripPan



TomProffitt - Aug 2, 2004 4:02 pm (#391 of 1030)
Edited Aug 2, 2004 5:03 pm

And when Ginny says she chose Dean, is she twitting her brother or is she Doing One of the Mad Things Girls Do to get a reaction out of Harry?

edit: oops, didn't realize I was on the Luna thread, but his is a response to Ginny v Luna, so maybe it still fits.



drippan - Aug 2, 2004 4:11 pm (#392 of 1030)

TomProffit, "is she twitting her brother or is she Doing One of the Mad Things Girls Do"

Good call! Thinking in Fred and George's point of view, I think she likes twisting her brother's tail.

I just read that paragraph right before where Ginny turns the Quibbler upside down and starts marking her answer.

It says that Ron looked highly delighted.

Weird that he found that delightful because that is how he first saw Luna and thought her strange. Now, it's delightful??!!

That is why I hate getting into 'ships!!! 1 + 1 does not equal 2 when emotions are involved......

DripPan



Magika - Aug 2, 2004 4:45 pm (#393 of 1030)

Well, I don't think Ron would mind Harry dating Ginny, but I think Harry might mind... And as for Ginny dating others, I don't think she's trying to get a reaction out of Harry, I think she's gotten over him, moved on. I think Ginny's feelings towards Harry was, as you said DripPan, just a crush. Not love. It was a crush, and now they're friends who understands what one another have been through. I've got lots of that kind of friends.

As for Luna, she's fresh blood in the gang, and Harry relates to her. I won't give in! *LOL*

-Si-



Gemini Wolfie - Aug 3, 2004 8:26 pm (#394 of 1030)

"but Ginny's had her turn. Harry didn't love her then. Why should he now?"

Sorry to have to disagree with you again Magika. Razz But for the longest time, Harry wasn't really interested in girls or only had eyes for Cho. As evidenced in OotP, Harry very much though of Ginny as simply a little girl. Her turn is yet to come as she becomes more of a woman and with luck, will have some new robes. Remember Harry didn't notice Hermione's beauty until she dressed up.

Back to Luna. A lot of people say that Harry had learned his lesson but that doesn't mean looks aren't important. You at least have to find the other person attractive. Luna's bulging eyes probably reminds Harry of Trelawney or something. I like the idea of Luna with Neville though. We are given the impression that what Neville appreciates most in a girl is a girl that is nice to him. I don't think he'll do better with a shy girl at all. Neville has been kept in check all his life. Luna will be capable of bringing out the more confident side of Neville and perhaps the more adventurous side with her undying faith. Of the three girls, Hermione and Ginny are perhaps too strong of a personality for the current Neville. Luna on the other hand wouldn't mind that Neville will step on her toes when they dance. She wouldn't mind if Neville gets laughed at by others because she is used to it herself. And Luna might believe that the Longbottoms can come back to sanity which will most likely bring comfort to Neville.



TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 3, 2004 10:25 pm (#395 of 1030)

Is this a ship thread?



Magika - Aug 3, 2004 11:30 pm (#396 of 1030)

Nope, it isn't supposed to be... I guess the Ginny-discussion was a bit off topic... But I think Luna's part in the story, in a ship or not, is relevant.



Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 12:06 am (#397 of 1030)

We have a different thread for all 'Ships. All 'Shipping debates should be posted there actually.



Rex Jones - Aug 4, 2004 8:35 pm (#398 of 1030)

I really hate how people think Harry and Luna will become an item near the end of the books. I think that this is absurd, since Luna seems like more of a friendly character, not someone who even thinks about boys.



Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 8:56 pm (#399 of 1030)

Rex... I think you should mention that on the 'Shipping thread too. There are many there predicting a Harry/Luna 'ship.



The One - Aug 4, 2004 11:56 pm (#400 of 1030)
Edited Aug 5, 2004 1:00 am

Even if Luna is a very strange girl, she is still a girl, and there is no reason to believe that she do not think about boys. The problem is that she is so strange that not too many boys will think about her. I do not see Harry/Luna as absurd, even if I do not believe that is what is going to happen.


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Julia. - Aug 5, 2004 8:02 am (#401 of 1030)

Er, guys, I'm still not a mod, but please, keep the shipping to the shipping threads. I really don't want to read about shipping, and I'd like to be able to avoid it by simply not reading that thread. Avodiding is made much more difficult when it turns up in other threads. Thanks everyone!



The One - Aug 5, 2004 8:12 am (#402 of 1030)

I just want to defend myself a little her. I answered to a post that more or less made it sound that a strange girl like Luna had to be totally asexual, and tried to point out that that need not be the case. That basically a statement about Luna, not about any particular ship. The border between what is shipping posts and what are not may be fuzzy, so I am afraid it is difficult to totally separate the two threads.

But I take your point, and shall try to behave.



Hermy-own - Aug 6, 2004 8:29 am (#403 of 1030)
Edited Aug 6, 2004 9:34 am

I'm very suprised that some people doubt Luna will feature in the remainder of the series.

Even if JKR isn't planning anything romantic between her and Harry (I know, I know...this isn't a 'ship thread) she has been far too involved in the story to be dumped now.

Other than maybe Cho, she is the most prominent Ravenclaw in OP and she was the only non-Gryffindor in the DoM six!

I hope Luna has a lot more to offer *i'm begging here JKR*...after all, how else would we come across Crumpled-horned Snorkacks and the like Wink



TomProffitt - Aug 6, 2004 8:58 am (#404 of 1030)

I posted a thought similar to this on another thread, I forget which.

"I'm very surprised that some people doubt Luna will feature in the remainder of the series." --- hermy-own

I too am surprised, in OotP we see an obvious advancement in Jo's "formula."

In PS/SS & CS, the train rides to and from Hogwarts are Harry and Ron, not really Harry, Ron and Hermione.

It is not until PA & GF that the train ride is about the trio. And of course, the books (all four) center on the trio almost as much as "just Harry."

In OotP, the train compartment has three new members, Neville, Ginny, and Luna. The trio has expanded to a sextet. The books have expanded to include a larger central group, the sextet.

I do not think it a coincidence that the five DA members that accompanied Harry to the DoM are also the five companions in his train compartment, both to and from Hogwarts.

We will see more Luna in the future, she is now in Harry's inner circle.



Kasse - Aug 6, 2004 9:40 am (#405 of 1030)

We will see more Luna in the future, she is now in Harry's inner circle. - Tom

... Perfectly stated, I agreee.



drippan - Aug 6, 2004 12:48 pm (#406 of 1030)

Luna also is going to be another "brain" of the operations. She is quite intelligent but different point of view than Hermione.

She came up with using the Threstals to go to the MoM. She thinks outside the box. One of her ideas will be put into play and will be successful.

She is the one who seems to know alot of unusual and strange stuff!!

DripPan



aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 7, 2004 9:14 am (#407 of 1030)

I know that it might have been nonsense but I wish she had finished what she was going to say about the locked door in the Department of Mysteries.



Magika - Aug 7, 2004 10:03 am (#408 of 1030)

Somehow, I don't believe what she was going to say was nonesence. If it had been, JKR could have revealed it, couldn't she? Now she's got us wondering about it. I guess that's where she wants us Smile



Kasse - Aug 7, 2004 10:43 am (#409 of 1030)

yes when JK interupts something then it is usually someting important that we will later discover.



Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 7, 2004 1:01 pm (#410 of 1030)

Personally, I think that what Luna has as opposed to Hermione's "intelligence", is "wisdom" or "intuition". They are two sides of the same coin, but Hermione isn't very wise or intuitive; Luna is. That's the role I think Luna will fill.



ReadingNut - Aug 9, 2004 6:43 am (#411 of 1030)

I don't think that Hermione is unwise. She often uses her knowledge in a quite logical manner - and rarely makes unwise decisions. (That I can remember.)

I think Luna's counterpoint to Hermione is that she uses her knowledge in radically different ways. She goes out on a limb - she is a risk taker and does trust her intuition.

So I agree with the intuition - but wise and intuitive are not the same. Perhaps Luna is also wise - but plenty of people trust their intuition to bad end.



constant vigilance - Aug 9, 2004 7:01 am (#412 of 1030)

I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I haven't had time to read through all 400 posts.

This may be nothing but I have a feeling that Luna Lovegood speaks in riddles, not always but occasionally. In Ootp, pg. 394 Luna mentions "[Fudge's] Umgumbular Slashkilter-". The first time I read this passage, I thought it was just one of Luna's odd words. However on my second trip through the book, I misread it and heard: Umbridge Slash-Killer.

It's not much but I think Luna is one of those people who fool others into thinking they are less smart than they really are. You can get away with a great deal more sometimes if others underestimate your abilities.

[p.s. this is my first post]



Hermy-own - Aug 9, 2004 7:14 am (#413 of 1030)

plenty of people trust their intuition to bad end. --ReadingNut

You are right about that - too much of any good thing is a bad thing. On the other hand, too little of any good thing is also a bad thing; plenty of people mistrust their intuition to bad end (would Hermione be an example?)

My point is that Hermione and Luna, when working in concert as they did that DoM night, complement each other very well. We all know what Hermione is capable of and how invaluable she is in the fight vs LV. The same now applies to Luna - without her intuitive approach to problem solving I think the group would be at a disadvantage - it was her who suggested they fly to the DoM on thestrals.



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 9, 2004 7:26 am (#414 of 1030)

That's an interesting idea Constant V. I also think Luna is smarter than she's letting on, perhaps she knows something extremely important but won't reveal it untill she knows she can trust the other five. She seems like the kind of person who doesn't trust easily.



Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 7:29 am (#415 of 1030)

I agree that Luna is very smart - more than she lets on, let us not forget she is in Ravenclaw.......................



mike miller - Aug 9, 2004 7:31 am (#416 of 1030)

DripPan and Magika - Sorry I've not responded sooner, vacation and work, well you know. I generally agree with your post since mine concerning Luna's "projected" personality. We have a lot more to learn about Luna, we've only scratch the surface. I will be much more comfortable with her if it turns out that she's really a little more grounded than she seems to be. She's just a little too far out there for me.

As far has how she compliments Hermione, she offers a point of view that is not based on proven facts, but perhaps just as valid. The trio is growing; and, Luna as the first non-Gryffindor directly involved in one of the books main adventures. Her prespective and "out-of-the-box" thinking will be extremely valuable in the future.



ReadingNut - Aug 10, 2004 3:13 am (#417 of 1030)

You are right, hermy-own. Not trusting your intuition is a handicap - and I think that Hermione doesn't really trust her own intuition - remember how she had a very hard time deciding if the DA was a good thing or not?

I also agree with mike miller - we barely know Luna. I think that she will cause a lot of new interactions. So far, she has put the characters on edge, bumped them a little out of their comfort zone. And how much of her personality is intrinsic or put on? There are so many unexplored avenues with Luna - "out there" or not, I think it will be fun.



Gemini Wolfie - Aug 11, 2004 3:26 am (#418 of 1030)

I think Fred and George should befriend Luna or hire Luna for their joke shop. Maybe they'll be able to get some free or cheap advertising.



Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 11, 2004 6:18 am (#419 of 1030)

But Luna isn't intentionally funny, ever. She wouldn't work well in a joke shop.

I think it's farily obvious that Luna is, indeed, crazy, and puts on her strangeness to deal with her mother's death. Therefore, she's a little out of touch with reality, but is apparently fearless, because she's convinced herself she knows what happens after one dies. She is, nevertheless, quite aware of death - that she hasn't blocked out. What puzzles me is why she isn't in Gryffindor, considering that she's the one non-Gryffindor who went to the MoM, and displayed just as much courage as anyone else.



TomProffitt - Aug 11, 2004 6:22 am (#420 of 1030)
Edited Aug 11, 2004 7:22 am

"What puzzles me is why she isn't in Gryffindor, considering that she's the one non-Gryffindor who went to the MoM, and displayed just as much courage as anyone else." --- Luke E.A. Lockhart

I'm starting to form the opinion that people are put in to Houses more by the way they see themselves than by what they are. I think this goes along with the "choices" theme.

Luna has the qualities of a Gryffindor, but sees herself as Ravenclaw.



Czarina II - Aug 11, 2004 7:18 am (#421 of 1030)

Luna is in Ravenclaw because she exhibits the traits mostly associated with that House. Just because a student is brave doesn't automatically mean they will be in Gryffindor; just because a student is hard-working doesn't guarantee them a place in Hufflepuff; just because one is smart doesn't mean they necessarily belong in Ravenclaw; just because one is selfish or ambitious doesn't put them in Slytherin.

Also, Luna was brave to go to the MoM, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't have rather been cozily reading beside the fire in Ravenclaw Tower. I could say I was brave to go to a university across the country, but I'm normally rather cowardly. According to an online website, I'm a Ravenclaw. If I were actually in Potterverse, the last House I'd be in would be Gryffindor, but that doesn't mean I can't be brave. All the students exhibit bravery at one point or another.



Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 11, 2004 7:34 am (#422 of 1030)

Yes, but there has never, ever been a sign that Luna is scared of anything. And yes, you could say that's because we haven't known her for long, but can you imagine her being scared?

Also, the problem with the "way you see yourself" thing is Neville.



TomProffitt - Aug 11, 2004 7:40 am (#423 of 1030)
Edited Aug 11, 2004 8:44 am

Well, there's not a house for students who "feel a bit queasy."

It took a long time with Neville didn't it. Neville may not have seen himself as brave and noble, but I think it's what he wanted to become.

I think this theory also shows why the sorting hat was so quick to put Draco in Slytherin, Draco knew where he was going. In much the same way, all of the Weasleys knew they belonged in Gryffindor.

I'm sure the self-image thing is not all of it, but I have no doubt it plays a part.



Diomedes - Aug 11, 2004 12:44 pm (#424 of 1030)

Hermy says in the first book that she thinks Gryffindor is the best house. I mean, this is open to interpretation but i think she is cleverer than she is brave. She chose gryffindor as the house she wanted to be in, and as DD says, it is our choices who reveal who we are, or something. So maybe the houses we go to are those we chose... imagine Nevilles grandmothers reaction if neville didnt go to gryffindor.... a good reason to chose it

another thing, in reference to Lockhart (among others) :

" but there has never, ever been a sign that Luna is scared of anything"

To be brave we have to be scared of something, then stand up to it, despite our fears. If she does not fear anything, shes not brave, just disturbed. in a nice way of course!

Anyway, enough rambling from me



Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 11, 2004 1:03 pm (#425 of 1030)

"To be brave we have to be scared of something, then stand up to it, despite our fears. If she does not fear anything, shes not brave, just disturbed. in a nice way of course!"

Fair enough; point taken.



Gemini Wolfie - Aug 11, 2004 8:38 pm (#426 of 1030)

Great post Czarina II. I think your point about being brave for going to a university across the country is a good one. Suppose you're very attached to your home and think you ought to be more independent. You're probably "better suited" back home but thought this would be a good opportunity to learn to become independent.

With this in mind, I agree that Neville wants to be brave like his father and also to make his grandma proud of him. But I do think he's brave all along, just that he's been constantly told he's not as good as his dad so he has no confidence in himself. We do know that we have a diamond in the rough here.

We know that the Sorting Hat sorts students into houses that they are best suited for(what's the actual phrase?) We know Hermione is intelligent. We see her as brave. But it's pretty clear that her bravery and chivalry is not clearcut, ie. it needs some prodding and developing. So Gryffindor house would best help Hermione and Neville develop their talents and round out their skills so to speak.

Back to Luna. "Or yet in wise old Ravenclaw,/If you've a ready mind,/Where those of wit and learning,/Will always find their kind;" Doesn't ready mind and wit sound more like Luna than Hermione?



Czarina II - Aug 11, 2004 9:49 pm (#427 of 1030)
Edited by Aug 11, 2004 10:50 pm

Gemini: "Doesn't ready mind and wit sound more like Luna than Hermione?"

Yes, it does. Luna pretty much has her mind made up on the spot, but she is open to other ideas. She also doesn't rely on book knowledge, which I find that Hermione does.

Luna is not fearless, she just does not fear easily. She saw her mother killed when she was nine in an accident. That would make some kids flip entirely. Evidently Luna recovered. As a result, she doesn't fear death (because such a thing would reunite her with her mother). Neither does she bother about little problems. Her mother died right in front of her. What could be worse than that? Not very much.

We also don't see much of Luna. Perhaps she has nightmares that haunt her, perhaps she is belatedly terrified after the fact. After all, she did have to go to the Hospital Wing, though I don't think she was that hurt. Maybe Madam Pomfrey had to give her something to calm her nerves? Some people don't crack under pressure, but they do once the pressure is released. I think Luna is like that. And since we don't see what goes on in her mind, we really don't know how scared she was in the DoM. She was probably thinking: "Ok, we've got to get out of here and we can't let the DEs get the Prophecy. Hmmm. Ok, in here! Lock door." Etc. Very practical, no panic. The opposite of Hermione.

EDIT -- Thanks for the compliment, Gemini!



ReadingNut - Aug 12, 2004 4:00 am (#428 of 1030)

"She saw her mother killed when she was nine in an accident. That would make some kids flip entirely. Evidently Luna recovered. As a result, she doesn't fear death (because such a thing would reunite her with her mother). Neither does she bother about little problems. Her mother died right in front of her. What could be worse than that? Not very much." - Czarina II

I think you are right. Luna has her priorities straight. She knows that all the laughter at her ear-bobs isn't important. Just as she is not upset by her things being taken. She knows that the petty things that people do are just not that important in the big scheme of things.

And that is why I think she is going to become a valuable friend to Harry. He, too, is going to have to come to grips with life and learing to let go of the unimportant things is a good lesson.



Kasse - Aug 12, 2004 5:36 am (#429 of 1030)

As a result, she doesn't fear death (because such a thing would reunite her with her mother). - Czarina II

Beautifully stated and in my opinion completely true!



ReadingNut - Aug 17, 2004 6:21 am (#430 of 1030)

Yea! JKR says she really likes Luna a lot. I think that means we will see a lot more of her!!!



DJ Evans - Aug 17, 2004 10:10 am (#431 of 1030)

I hope so -- I just love her, she is such a hoot to read!!! She makes a nice comic relief and she can have more depth to her too.

Later, Deb



Nyx Megumi - Aug 18, 2004 10:24 am (#432 of 1030)

I absolutely love Luna. She reminds me of myself, from the spaced-out attitude to the wacky clothes and earrings. I mean, I can't see myself wearing orange radishes, but that's simply because I prefer not to wear the color orange (except for one shirt I own, which I'm madly in love with), but I COULD see myself wearing the same earrings after charming them a different color! Luna is definitely my favorite HP character.



Kasse - Aug 18, 2004 11:56 am (#433 of 1030)
Edited Aug 18, 2004 12:57 pm

Good for you Nyx.

I am a Luna fan too though her and I are nothing alike, I appreciate her different ways.

I think the great thing about HP is we can all relate to one character or another, some like me are a combination of two (or more)characters.

Well done to JK for introducing us to Luna, I am looking forward to who else we might meet in HBP.



Sir Tornado - Aug 18, 2004 7:39 pm (#434 of 1030)

Fawcett?



Archangel - Aug 18, 2004 7:48 pm (#435 of 1030)

Wasn't a Fawcett character introduced in GoF? A girl who got caught making out in the Yule Ball?

Not sure if this has been raised here but in G0F, when Harry and the gang were going to see the WQC, they went to a place where a portkey has been placed. One of the characters (not sure if it's Arthur or Amos) mentioned something like the only wizards in that area are the Lovegoods, Weasleys, Diggorys, and Fawcetts. I read in another thread the JKR mentioned that Molly's middle name is Fawcett.

Not sure how that connection will play out but I thought of sharing this here. Smile



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 19, 2004 4:30 am (#436 of 1030)

I just got that as well Archangel from listening to the book on tape. It seems I was wrong saying the Lovegoods hadn't been mentioned before.



Steve Newton - Aug 19, 2004 5:12 am (#437 of 1030)

Actually Molly's maiden name was Prewett. She is related to 2 OOTP mebers killed by DEs.



Archangel - Aug 19, 2004 5:08 pm (#438 of 1030)

Ooooh... sorry about the Molly thing. Must have misread the thread. Thanks for the correction Steve Newton. Smile



Crisz - Aug 24, 2004 7:07 pm (#439 of 1030)

Acckk. I know I'm in the big minority (oxymoron!) here, but I cannot stand Luna Lovegood.

When I was reading (for the first time) OotP, I just saw Luna as a character JKR stuck in as more of an "it's-okay-to-be-different" character for children.

But alas, I have to agree with most everyone else. There's much more in store for Luna. () She has to be important, or else she would have never gotten so many remarks (i.e. the earrings, hat) (makes me wonder where she had been all those other years...) and, of course, would never have gone all the way to the Department of Mysteries with the rest of the "main" characters.

I (for now) see her as an outside vent for Harry. Hermione and Ron are good friends, but Harry and Luna share a common bond, which is derived from the ending of OotP: death.



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 25, 2004 9:42 am (#440 of 1030)

I agree Crisz. I'm not a big Luna fan either, but I have accepted that she is destined for a bigger role



weasley by nature - Aug 25, 2004 11:23 am (#441 of 1030)

I think Luna is not the "it's okay to be different" character, but more of a character to be the "anti-Hermione." To show that Hermione is not perfect and to show a different way of thinking.

I don't hate Luna but I wasn't crazy about her either. I thought the moments with her were funny ("When you say Sirius Black do you mean Stubby Boardman?") but I wasn't like "wow she's totally awesome!" either. Except when she laughed for a ridiculously long time, I could totally relate: I'm easily amused so I often laugh the longest :9



Gemini Wolfie - Aug 25, 2004 6:18 pm (#442 of 1030)

JKR says that the best thing about Mafalda was that she was a match for Hermione so Luna certainly fits the role. Plus the fact that she seems to have taken an interest to Ron and we'll have some interesting moments to come.



LooneyLuna - Aug 26, 2004 5:33 am (#443 of 1030)

I agree that Luna is the "anti-Hermione" (Weasley by nature), but I do think Luna is also the "it's okay to be different" character. She IS different, but being different and the notoriety that comes along with it doesn't bother her. She's not concerned about what other people think or say about her and come to think about it, Dumbledore is the same way. Harry could learn from them both.



Crisz - Aug 26, 2004 6:04 pm (#444 of 1030)

Well, I'm just relieved I'm not the only one out there with that opinion...



total hatred - Aug 27, 2004 4:18 pm (#445 of 1030)

I dont think Luna is antiHermione but she is some sort of Hermione opposite. Notice that Hermione is dependent on books while Luna is dependent on her instinct. Hermione is prim and proper while Luna is not.



Crisz - Aug 27, 2004 7:57 pm (#446 of 1030)

I think that's pretty much what they meant by "Anti-Hermione".



Parrothead Patronus - Aug 27, 2004 8:06 pm (#447 of 1030)

Didn't I read somewhere that a student was supposed to change houses? Sounds to me like it could be Luna.



Neville Longbottom - Aug 27, 2004 10:51 pm (#448 of 1030)

I don't know where this rumour comes from. I am quite sure JKR neevr said that someone will change houses. And if it were Luna I would be annoyed, since I am glad that she's not a Gryffindor, like about every other major character.



The giant squid - Aug 27, 2004 11:48 pm (#449 of 1030)
Edited Aug 28, 2004 12:50 am

total hatred, the statement was that Luna is the anti-Hermione, meaning she's the opposite, not that she's opposed to her personally. You've basically agreed with the sentiment in your post.

Parrothead, that rumor was started elsewhere and did not come from JKR. There used to be a thread devoted to it (not sure if it's still there). Once we got past the fact that Jo never said it would happen, we rambled on for a few more pages about who might switch if someone did.

--Mike

EDIT: just scanned the active threads & I don't see it anywhere.



Hermy-own - Aug 28, 2004 4:49 am (#450 of 1030)
Edited Aug 28, 2004 5:50 am

Giant squid, could this be the thread you were looking for?


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The giant squid - Aug 28, 2004 10:43 pm (#451 of 1030)

Yup, that's it. See what happens when I try to find threads at 1AM? The Search function can be your friend...

--Mike



total hatred - Aug 29, 2004 2:37 pm (#452 of 1030)
Edited by Denise P. Aug 29, 2004 5:22 pm

Come on. I am just clarifying the point.

Edit: I edited out a line from this post. You can debate, attack and try to disprove points but you may not make insulting remarks about members of the Forum. Please, everyone, keep that in mind when you post. If you have any questions about this, please feel free to email me [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



weasley by nature - Aug 29, 2004 5:56 pm (#453 of 1030)
Edited Aug 29, 2004 6:56 pm

Total hatred, JKR has said in interviews the Luna is the anti-Hermione, using that terminology. You defined what the term anti-Hermione could mean in your post, but said that Luna was not the anti-Hermione. That was all we were saying. We agree with you. But you weren't really clarifying the point, you were confusing it.



Magika - Aug 2, 2004 11:26 am (#454 of 1030)
Edited Sep 2, 2004 12:27 pm

Doesn't anti mean opposite of? I would say that Hermione and Luna is opposite each other, but that doesn't mean they can't cooperate. IMO, Luna and Hermione will have to cooperate more in the books to come. Different people can fill each other out.

By the way, Giant Squid... Your avatar. For my exam in June, I was supposed to make a poster for some imaginary underwater travel agency (in art class), and I used that exact squid! Funny! Wink I got an A, all thanks to it! Smile



madame hooch - Aug 2, 2004 2:18 pm (#455 of 1030)

I think there is more to Luna than meets the eye.She seems to know more about whats beyond the veil.It appears to me that with her you have to ask questions to get answers and nobody really talks to her.She always reads the Quibbler upside down perhaps there is hidden important news or info if it is read this way.just a thought.



The giant squid - Aug 2, 2004 10:11 pm (#456 of 1030)

There is definitely more to Luna than we've sen so far. I'd even go out on a limb and say she'll end up being a very powerful witch. Everyone will be surprised, of course-- "You didn't tell me you could do that!" "You didn't ask." Like madame hooch said, nobody asks Luna many questions ( a lot of that going on in Harry's world, huh?) so we don't have many answers. Then again, I just like characters who aren't afraid to wear radish earrings if the mood strikes them.

By the way, Giant Squid... Your avatar. For my exam in June, I was supposed to make a poster for some imaginary underwater travel agency (in art class), and I used that exact squid! Funny! Wink I got an A, all thanks to it! Smile --Magika

Great minds think alike, I guess. I found it by going to Yahoo.com and searching for "giant squid". The pic was the header on the third page that came up.

--Mike



DJ Evans - Aug 3, 2004 3:39 pm (#457 of 1030)

"...I'd even go out on a limb and say she'll end up being a very powerful witch. Everyone will be surprised, of course-- "You didn't tell me you could do that!" "You didn't ask.": Mike/Giant Squid

That is exactly how I see Luna too!!! She is the type of a person to be willing to share anything, except nobody ever asks her.

That is the one thing that gets me about the HP series, especially Harry, very few will "ask" questions. But then if they did, would we have the great work of literature that we do now, would they be as much fun to sit here and ponder on every little bitty bit? Nope, so never mind!

Later, Deb



The giant squid - Aug 4, 2004 10:52 pm (#458 of 1030)

I was thinking the same thing when I typed my post, Deb. A whole LOT of problems would have been solved if some people *cough*Harry*cough* would just ask a question now and then.

I think we might have seen a turning point in that area at the end of OotP, though. When Luna is posting her request to return her things, Harry goes out of his way to ask her why. This could be the beginning of Harry deciding to seek his own answers to more important questions. After all ,we've only got 2 books to go.

--Mike



Gemini Wolfie - Aug 5, 2004 4:26 am (#459 of 1030)

In my opinion, it's not that Harry doesn't like to ask questions, he just doesn't think he can get the answers he seeks. There seemingly is a growing trend of Harry feeling like nobody else in the world can understand or help him. So besides the fact that Harry ends up not asking enough questions, he ends up getting answers from unexpected places such as Luna and Ginny.



DJ Evans - Aug 5, 2004 10:41 am (#460 of 1030)

Mike/Giant Squid -- Again, I think you've hit it. Harry is now starting to see a much bigger picture and knows that if he wants to find anything out he must seek the answers & not just wait for the answers to come to him. I believe it's finally dawn on him just how much he has lost by not asking questions before!

Hmmm, I don't know Gemini. Though I can see where you would think Harry doesn't think he can get the answers he seeks. But the way that I see it, Harry (IMO) has basically been raised by people that have told him time and again "Ask No Questions!!!" So he most likely just feels that is the norm. It is only by the time he gets to the age that he is in OotP (as Mike/Giant Squid just said) and sees just how much he "is/has been" kept in the dark that he figures out he has to be the one to just come straight out and ask. The one that he looked up to more than anyone (DD) wasn't very forth coming in the answer department to Harry that year -- really left Harry in the dark in matters that affected Harry's life big time. And who does Harry start with? Luna! Who better to than her. She has been raised in a world totally opposite from Harry's, where that's all you do "is ask questions"!!! So I can see Harry being very more inquisitive in the next two books.!!!

Later, Deb



ex-FAHgeek - Aug 7, 2004 5:55 am (#461 of 1030)

---quote--- Luna and Hermione are very similar but where Hermione deals in facts, Luna deals in possibility. ---end quote---

Ah, the original post of the thread by Denise P... what better time than 460 posts later to add to it?

I'll rephrase the above slightly: Hermione deals in the definite while Luna deals in the possible. The most interesting thing is that when Hermione enters that realm of the possible, she starts to act with startling similarity to Luna. Case in point...

"Well, you're the one who's supposed to be researching magical methods of bugging!" said Harry. "You tell me how she did it!" "I've been trying!" said Hermione. 'But I... but..." An odd, dreamy expression suddenly came over Hermione's face. She slowly raised a hand and ran her fingers through her hair.

Is it just me, or does that sound remarkably similar to Luna's description? Hermione starts using her imagination to think up possibilities, rather than relying on proven results, and in the process her similarity to Luna becomes striking.

It makes me wonder if, in the process of researching something for which she didn't have some "out there" stories on which to fall back, Luna would act with startling similarity to Hermione's usual personality.



Chad Peters - Aug 15, 2004 6:29 pm (#462 of 1030)

call me crazy, but for some reason I have this nagging feeling that Luna is destined to die.

There's something about how she and her father are going abroad that just gives me this nagging feeling that she isn't coming back.

I wish I could explain why I feel like this, but that's my two pence.



mindy blue - Aug 15, 2004 10:41 pm (#463 of 1030)

Chad- I think that also. The reason I could see Luna dying soon is because she would be the one death I would be ok with. Not because I don't like her, but because I think she's the one most prepared for death. IMO, it seems to me that if Luna died, she wouldn't be the one kicking and screaming "I don't want to die!", not that I could really picture any of the other characters, save Malfoy, really doing that, but... I guess because of the way she talks about her mother, to Luna, dying would just be another answer to a great mystery. It seems like her father is always off in search of an answer to some fantastic mystery, and she's her father's daughter. Plus she would be reunited with her mother, and it would be a happy ending in a strange way. Does any of this make sense?



Hermy-own - Aug 16, 2004 5:23 am (#464 of 1030)
Edited Sep 16, 2004 6:24 am

It does make sense, mindy. However, something tells me JKR has set Luna up for a bigger role in the coming books.

She was fairly prominent in OotP, especially in the latter stages of the book -- the DoM battle and the conversation with Harry -- and this suggests she has more to offer.

If she is destined to die, I doubt it will be before HBP. In my opinion, both Harry and herself have unfinished business with the veil.

'Oh, come on. You heard them, just behind the veil, didn't you?'
'You mean ...'
'In that room with the archway. They were just lurking out of sight, that's all. You heard them.'

Just my two knuts..

Hermy.



mindy blue - Aug 17, 2004 2:32 am (#465 of 1030)

Oh, I don't doubt she have a larger role, hermy. I'd actually be a little disappointed if she doesn't, because I like her. But if one major character had to die, she'd be the one I would most likely pick. I could actually kind of see her marching bravely into the veil, maybe...



Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 5:40 am (#466 of 1030)

Marching bravely into the veil...

I like it.



Kasse - Aug 17, 2004 10:44 am (#467 of 1030)

Marching bravely into the veil...

I got a little lump in my throat reading that - I hope there are not too many deaths or I will be a balling mess while reading HBP



LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 12:22 pm (#468 of 1030)

Luna pauses at the veil, "See you on the other side, Harry" smiles a dreamy smile and disappears.



Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 2:37 pm (#469 of 1030)

Beautiful.



total hatred - Aug 17, 2004 2:44 pm (#470 of 1030)

I agree that was brilliant but it is far too easy. luna will just march towards the Veil with apparent reason. No sane person will do that. Oh well, Luna was not considered not sane by some people. I think that can a good scene that if you elaborate the circumstances that made her do it.



LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 3:18 pm (#471 of 1030)

I certainly couldn't expand on that scene - I'm a horrible writer.

Smile



mindy blue - Aug 17, 2004 11:48 pm (#472 of 1030)

But that line was so perfect! It's exactly how I pictured it! Now I'm going to be disappointed if that DOESN'T happen.



El Cronista de Salem - Aug 18, 2004 3:25 am (#473 of 1030)

I think that Luna will give a pressent to Harry, because she traveled to... (I don't remember now) thanks to him.

Maybe the new pet that Harry will have in the rumors? or J.K. Rowling really said that?

Personally, I am sure that if J.K. Rowling writes in a HP Forum, it is. If it is true... Hello, Jo Wink



LooneyLuna - Aug 18, 2004 6:53 am (#474 of 1030)

Oh, wouldn't it be funny if Luna gave Harry a Crumpled Horn Snorkrack baby. Hagrid would be thrilled!

Mindy - thank you for the compliment <blushing>.



haymoni - Aug 18, 2004 3:05 pm (#475 of 1030)

It certainly would shut up Hermione!



Steve Newton - Aug 18, 2004 6:19 pm (#476 of 1030)

Nothing can shut Hermione up.



TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 18, 2004 6:36 pm (#477 of 1030)

LOL Steve, you are so right! Even petrified Hermione managed to "tell" Harry and Ron what they needed to know about the basilisk.



Hermy-own - Aug 19, 2004 2:04 am (#478 of 1030)
Edited Sep 19, 2004 3:05 am

Lol, TBE! Another spew moment!

On a more sirius note, could Luna be the very person to "shut up" Hermione? (Not in a literal sense - that would be impossible! )
I'm thinking more along the lines of queitly influencing her to realise that the best solution to a problem is not always, so to speak, in the restricted section of Hogwarts library.

If my memory serves me rightly, we once flirted with this very topic on this very thread.**remembers "Luna is anti-Hermione" discussions**
We have agreed that Luna makes the Trio (or Sextet) a more well-rounded group. I'd like to add to this by suggesting she may well make the Trio more well-rounded as individuals - particularly Hermione. Perhaps this will prove to be another one of Luna's purposes in the story...

On the other hand, there is always the dreaded possibility that the two characters will clash - and then what?



The One - Aug 19, 2004 2:07 am (#479 of 1030)

I have a suspicion that the Great Crumple Horned Snorkack expedition to Sweden will actually succeed. That should shut Hermione up, at least for 5 minutes.



Paulus Maximus - Aug 19, 2004 10:10 am (#480 of 1030)

What could Hermy say if proven wrong?

I think that proof of the existance of a crumple-horned snorkack would shut Hermy up for an hour at least...



Doris Crockford - Aug 19, 2004 1:28 pm (#481 of 1030)

It would be very interesting to see how Luna broke the news to Hermione if she did find a Crumple-horned Snorkack (or any other animal that Hermione did not believe existed). Luna is not really the type of person to dance around saying "Told you so!". Would she be able to bring a Crumple-horned Snorkack to Hogwarts as a pet? (I know students are only supposed to have an owl, cat, or toad, but Ron brought a rat, so Luna might be able to bring one if it's small)



LooneyLuna - Aug 19, 2004 2:36 pm (#482 of 1030)

Well, Mr. Lovegood would print the pictures in The Quibbler - right next to that article about Stubby Boardman. Smile



mindy blue - Aug 20, 2004 11:02 pm (#483 of 1030)

But do you think a picture would satisfy Hermione? I'm thinking she would need solid evidence. BTW Looney- you're very welcome Smile



LooneyLuna - Aug 21, 2004 5:37 am (#484 of 1030)

I don't think a picture would satisfy Hermione (or me). But maybe a picture and Luna's eye witness testimony would be enough.



mindy blue - Aug 21, 2004 9:50 pm (#485 of 1030)

True, but I would love for Luna to bring one back to Hogwarts just to see (read) the look on Hermione's face! I don't think you'd get quite the same effect from a picture and a testimony... And then, there would be NO WAY that Hermione could deny the existance of the Crumpled Horn Snorkrack. BTW do we know exactly what a Crumpled Horn Snorkrack does or looks like?



Hermy-own - Aug 23, 2004 2:57 am (#486 of 1030)

Mindy, I don't think Luna describes the Crumpled Horn Snorkack. I'll take another quick look through OotP just incase there is something in there.

It's interesting that you mention Luna bringing a Snorkack back to Hogwarts. We don't know what one does but I wouldn't be surprised if they have mysterious powers which could be useful in the war. What would Hermione have to say then?



mindy blue - Aug 23, 2004 9:11 pm (#487 of 1030)

That would just add injury to insult- not only would Hermione be wrong about the Snorkrack but she'd also have to potentially use or work alongside one for awhile, constantly reminding her that she was wrong! I haven't read JKR's book about magical creatures yet (the name escapes me), does it mention them any where in there, or no? Maybe not, since that would ruin the our surprise at finding out that they're real in HBP I guess. Does anyone have a copy handy?



The One - Aug 23, 2004 10:28 pm (#488 of 1030)

Would you find the Loch Ness monster in a serious muggle work on zoology?



Doxy Bowtruckle - Aug 24, 2004 2:20 am (#489 of 1030)

Mindy Blue,

I couldn't find any mention of the Snorkrack in the FB book, but it does mention at the beginning that there are only 75 beasts mentioned in the book, and that no doubt there will be another discovery of a beast, leading to a revised edition of FB and where to find them. hope that is of some help to your question.

doxyb



mindy blue - Aug 24, 2004 7:48 pm (#490 of 1030)
Edited Sep 24, 2004 8:48 pm

Doxy, that's a great help, thanks. I went to my library to check out the book the next day and all 3 copies are out!



mrweasley - Aug 30, 2004 12:35 pm (#491 of 1030)
Edited by Sep 30, 2004 1:36 pm

You guys are so funny!
I just couldn't stop laughing when I thought about a scenario in book six in which Luna, in a dreamy side-note and apropos of nothing, declares that her vacation in Sweden was "quite enjoyable you know, and the Crumple-horned Snorkacks are not as dangerous as we thought they were.", making Hermione's jaw drop...

*walks off to find a cure for his laughing fit*



Madame Pomfrey - Oct 1, 2004 4:59 pm (#492 of 1030)

LOL.However,I believe Luna.I don't know why but I do.Not only do I believe in Crumple Horned Snorkack but I also believe Cornelius Fudge has an army of Heliopaths.I also think Luna is getting more than a spell to turn the ears into kumquats when she reads the Quibbler upside down.I know,I know. Ginny was also seen doing this for the quiz or whatever.But,on the train it mentions that Luna was reading it upside down and turned the page.How many pages does spell answers normally need.She always reads it upside down.Maybe this paper when read upside down gives the news of whats really happening in the wizarding world.Maybe its an informative to D.D.....Ok,I'm waiting for the dung bombs.Fire away.



The giant squid - Oct 2, 2004 12:37 am (#493 of 1030)

No dungbombs, Madame P, at least not from me. The simple fact that Hermione was so vehement about Crumple Horned Snorkacks not existing led me to immediately believe that they did. I'm not too sure about the heliopaths, but I am sure that Luna has a lot more going on than we've seen.

--Mike



total hatred - Oct 2, 2004 3:02 pm (#494 of 1030)

I think Luna doesn't say things in the literal sense but she talk in a literary sense. About the heliopaths, I believe that she means that Fudge has an army of loyal supporters, willing to do anything for him, no matter what are the effects of their action. They will destroy anything that stands between them and their objectives.



Madame Pomfrey - Oct 2, 2004 5:47 pm (#495 of 1030)

Thanks Mike for not throwing dung bombs.I just did my hair.Total Hatred that is probably true of Fudge as power hungry as he is I bet he wont leave his office nicely.He will of coarse have his side kick Umbridge and all her nastiness.I'll never forgive that woman for what she put my Harry through.



Grimber - Oct 2, 2004 5:55 pm (#496 of 1030)

Luna I think is a good character because she embodies that even though WW don't know much of the muggle world, they also don't know as much as they think they do about thier own WW world.



Zirtaheb - Oct 11, 2004 6:49 am (#497 of 1030)

I fell something extrange about Luna, I don't like her very much, she has something that I can't understand at all



Chemyst - Oct 11, 2004 2:36 pm (#498 of 1030)

I think Luna doesn't say things in the literal sense but she talk in a literary sense. About the heliopaths, I believe that she means that Fudge has an army of loyal supporters, willing to do anything for him, no matter what are the effects of their action. They will destroy anything that stands between them and their objectives. -total hatred

Dolores "Heliopath" Umbridge



Catherine - Oct 11, 2004 3:03 pm (#499 of 1030)

Dolores "Heliopath" Umbridge --Chemyst

Ooh, do we think that Luna had something THIS scary in mind! **shiver**



The giant squid - Oct 11, 2004 10:02 pm (#500 of 1030)

Even scarier is the thought of an army of Umbridges...


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Steve Newton - Oct 14, 2004 5:51 am (#501 of 1030)

Luna's speech to Neville, 'Wit beyond measure is man's greatest pleasure,' is driving me crazy. Is this original with JKR or is it from somewhere else. I check Bartlett's and could not find it. All of the references to it on the web that I could find were HP sites.



Doxy Bowtruckle - Oct 14, 2004 11:09 am (#502 of 1030)

I have checked Oxford's Dictionary of quotations too.

I like it though, i could picture her saying it.

doxyB



The giant squid - Oct 15, 2004 3:56 am (#503 of 1030)

I think the original quote is "Wit beyond measure is man's greatest treasure". So Luna's (and thus JKR's) version is a variation.

Of course, I can't for the life of me remember where that's from, but I seem to think it's one of the classical poets, Keats, Donne, Frost, someone like that.

--Mike



Doxy Bowtruckle - Oct 15, 2004 4:49 am (#504 of 1030)

The only quote i can find about wit and treasure is by the English novellist and poet George Meredith 1828 - 1909 "A witty woman is a treasure, a witty beauty is a power!"

Not what i was really hoping to find, oh well! Just scanned the Keats section too, nothing there.Sad

DoxyB



The giant squid - Oct 15, 2004 10:09 pm (#505 of 1030)

Well, I never said I was sure...but I'm certain I'd heard it before Luna said it. Alas.



mrweasley - Oct 16, 2004 12:02 pm (#506 of 1030)

I hope you can find the context, giant squid. I've tried to google it out, but couldn't find anything. I've always thought that it's just something like a tag line, an official slogan for Ravenclaw that everybody knows (which means, there must be similar ones for the other houses too).



Doxy Bowtruckle - Oct 17, 2004 7:40 am (#507 of 1030)

I too have tried to Google it, alas earwax, again.

Maybe it just sounds so familiar to us all because it rhymes and of course Luna said it!!

I keep thinking of "Sarcasm, is the lowest form of wit" Which i also think sums up Luna very well too.

DoxyB



Chemyst - Oct 17, 2004 7:52 am (#508 of 1030)

I joined the googler club too, trying "Wealth" and "Riches" instead of "Wit" and switching around pleasure, treasue & measure. Nothing. Nada. Zip.



Eponine - Oct 17, 2004 8:58 am (#509 of 1030)

I've tried to find it as well. Not a thing except Harry Potter sites. Which doesn't really help. I've come to the conclusion that JKR wrote it herself.



The giant squid - Oct 17, 2004 3:09 pm (#510 of 1030)

Drat. Oh, well, it probably sounded familiar due to my numerous re-reads. Sorry folks...



shadowfax - Oct 23, 2004 8:56 pm (#511 of 1030)

It could be Eliott or Keats , but I'm not sure. I've searched the web under great poets and even their verses and nothing came up. I'm sure I've heard that somewhere before . Alas, I'll keep on searching or I'll have to dig up my old literature and poetry books until I find it...........



shadowfax - Oct 23, 2004 9:38 pm (#512 of 1030)
Edited Oct 23, 2004 10:40 pm

Hold on everyone I've found a match !!!!!!

The author of this famous verse , ("Wit beyond measure is a man's

greatest pleasure ") is no other than JKR her self and of course

Luna.....LOL .I found it in two advance searches and each time it

came up with JKR and HP.



Steve Newton - Oct 24, 2004 8:39 am (#513 of 1030)

I asked about the wit/treasure (is it pleasure or treasure?) on the Stumpers listserv. This is a listserv for reference librarians. This line seems to be original with JKR.

The closest that people have been able to find are these:

"Perhaps you were thinking of the Eisenhower quote: "We believe individual liberty, rooted in human dignity, is man's greatest treasure." (at least if you are as old as I am).

Then, even older (no insinuations represented here) are:

"A man's greatest treasure is his wife-she is a gift from the LORD." Proverbs 18:22 [originally from the Talmud]

Aesop has one too: Thus they learned that man's greatest treasure consists in work. -The Farmer and His Sons etc., etc., and so forth. "



legolas - Oct 24, 2004 11:23 am (#514 of 1030)
Edited Oct 24, 2004 12:23 pm

It could be a Lovegood family original



shadowfax - Oct 24, 2004 7:18 pm (#515 of 1030)

LOL,...No Legolas since Luna Lovegood is a charater of JKR , herself.



legolas - Oct 24, 2004 11:04 pm (#516 of 1030)

Thats what I mean it could be JKR making up a Lovegood original



mrweasley - Oct 25, 2004 8:21 am (#517 of 1030)

Amazing research, Steve!

I guess if they (the Stumpers listserv. people) didn't find anything, we can safely assume that it's a JKR original. Another proof of how good she is, I guess...



shadowfax - Oct 25, 2004 2:17 pm (#518 of 1030)
Edited Oct 25, 2004 3:33 pm

Just joshing with you Legolis...LOL. I know that's what you meant..

And yes Mr.Weasley JKR is so talented , I can't wait for book six to finally be finished . I'm having a Harry Potter withdrawal ....LOL

Steve that was a great search , I did two or three searches and came up the same conclusion .



Zirtaheb - Oct 26, 2004 12:02 am (#519 of 1030)

Luna has something extrange...I don't know what, but I don´t like her very much. Why is she in OF and no in the other books? (Well, in GoF, Mr. Weasley sais the name, but only the name).



mrweasley - Oct 26, 2004 1:22 am (#520 of 1030)

Actually, it's Mr. Diggory who mentions the Lovegoods in book 4, Zirtaheb. It's the scene where everybody gets ready to go to the Quidditch World Cup via the porthole in the woods:

"Must be nearly time," said Mr. Weasley quickly, pulling out his watch again. "Do you know whether we're waiting for any more, Amos?"

"No, the Lovegoods have been there for a week already and the Fawcetts couldn't get tickets," said Mr. Diggory. "There aren't any more of us in this area, are there?"

"Not that I know of," said Mr. Weasley. "Yes, it's a minute off ... We'd better get ready...."

Kind of interesting that the Lovegoods seem to live close to the Weasleys, isn't it? Maybe there will be a visit or two during summer break in book 6...



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 31, 2004 9:50 am (#521 of 1030)

Well if they do live near each other, that would explain why Ginny was so familiar with Luna in OOP.(It could have been just because they had class together though). Someone mentioned on the Ginny thread that maybe Luna and Ginny had play dates when they were little.



Adamo Lateramen - Nov 11, 2004 3:34 am (#522 of 1030)

I love Luna's eccentricity, and the idea that her, ginny and neville becoming part of the Harry Potter trio to become a sextup (is that the right term?) shows interesting possibilities between houses, and ways to show the hogwarts bunch maturing.

Harry has dealt with alot, and matured in darker, deeper ways than Ron and Hermione. I love that Neville, Ginny and Luna seem do balance Harry more than just Hermione and Ron can.

For example, Neville was the only one that stuck with Harry in the battle in the Dept of Mysteries. Neville and Harry share a bond in that both parents fought and died (in a way i think of nevilles parents as dead) and desire a revenge.

Ginny is the only one who knows what it is like to be possessed by Voldemort, and the only girl who Harry can feel safe enough around to confide in about wanting to talk to Sirius.

I know this is a Luna thread, but i want to discuss the way these three characters influence Harry.

I Love how Luna interacts and brings different sides out in everyone. She is the only one who Harry can talk to about the Thestrals, and who provides an eerie spiritual maturity that brings Harry comfort when mourning Sirius.

I cant wait to learn more about her, her mum, dad, and possibilities in HBP for her character to develop into someone, i think will balance Harrys emotional instabilities



Ms Hagrid - Nov 12, 2004 8:52 am (#523 of 1030)

Can anyone else see Luna's father becoming part of the Order of the Phoenix? As the wizarding world's "alternative voice"? Just curious...



Ydnam96 - Nov 12, 2004 12:06 pm (#524 of 1030)

Ms Hagrid,

I don't know...the only info we have on Mr. Lovegood is seen through Luna (then filtered through Harry's eyes) so I may not be on target with this...but I see Mr. Lovegood as not really all that interested in Voldemort and all those goings-on. He seems to think that Crumple Horned Snorkacks are pretty important as well as the band that Siruis is supposedly a part of (sorry don't have a book handy). I mean, I think he cares, but that he's quite possibly a bit scatterbrained like Luna is. So he would join the Order, but maybe wouldn't remember to come to meetings because he had to go on a hunting expedition or something. I guess I'm not making much sense. I just seem him as having a bit of fluff in his head, well meaning-but-maybe won't follow through... just a thought or two...I could totally be off.



Annika - Nov 12, 2004 12:41 pm (#525 of 1030)

He may not join the Order in a direct way, but in running the article written by Rita Skeeter, he helped the Order in their cause by swaying people toward the truth about Voldemorte's return. I feel his priorities for reporting the, erm, news, would be a notch above fighting in WW. But then again, Luna has proven to be helpful, so you never know.

Annika



TomProffitt - Nov 14, 2004 7:04 pm (#526 of 1030)

Dumbledore is rather the opposite of Voldemort, in more than the obvious ways. While Voldemort excels at sowing discord among friends, Dumbledore is capable of making allies of enemies. Albus can certainly find a way to make the most use of Mr. Lovegood's talents, although not necessarily in the Order itself.



StareyedSlytherin - Nov 14, 2004 10:48 pm (#527 of 1030)

Interesting idea, if Mr. Lovegood did decide to join the Order, it would probably be out of curiosity such as his curiosity for Crumple Horned Snorkacks and other such things. To him, it would probably be something to look into and investigate. I'm not saying that he wouldn't end up making a good Order member, but I have to agree that he does seem a bit scatterbrained if he's anything like his daughter. It could have started out that same way for Luna too though, as a simple curiosity about Harry's story. But after all, she did prove what she was capable of at the MoM Wink



dizzy lizzy - Nov 29, 2004 1:02 am (#528 of 1030)

Luna strikes me as moving in her own little world and appears to consider the WW completely irrelevant to some extent. I like it fine when she does come back to the WW (DA lessons and MOM fight), because it obvious there is a lot more to her that meets the eye.

I really would like to see more of Luna and I'm looking forward to see if her Dad can really find the critters Luna says he's looking for.

Lizzy



El Cronista de Salem - Dec 23, 2004 5:59 am (#529 of 1030)

Maybe Luna gives Harry a present in HBP, because the Lovegood travelled the last summer thanks to the money that the interview to Harry has given.

When will we know Luna's birthday? I wish it is 17th February! :-) As mine!



dizzy lizzy - Dec 23, 2004 12:42 pm (#530 of 1030)

Luna seems also to be the person you most easily underestimate. Probably to everyone's shock, she'll come good in the next books in terms of being a very good witch. I doubt she will ever lose her little world.

Lizzy



Madame Pomfrey - Dec 23, 2004 1:22 pm (#531 of 1030)

Well they certainly didn't place her in Ravenclaw because she's light headed.I think she will turn out to be a very strong character.I kind of think that some of things she has said that everyone thought "rubbish" will turn out to be true.



Hermy-own - Dec 23, 2004 2:21 pm (#532 of 1030)

I agree, Madame Pomfrey. Then again, I've always wanted to see a Crumple-Horned Snorkack.



Madame Pomfrey - Dec 23, 2004 8:00 pm (#533 of 1030)

Me too!And then there's Fudge's Umglubular Slashkilter!!



Eric Bailey - Jan 1, 2005 2:28 pm (#534 of 1030)

Luna's very smart, or she wouldn't be in Ravenclaw. She just happens to have what Hermione lacks, for the most part, the ability to take an intuitive leap. She sees strange ideas not as something to ridicule and dismiss out of hand, but something to consider until they're disproven.

It's also significant how she completely drops her "flights of fancy" when there's a serious situation. Notice, from the time Harry announced he needed to rescue Sirius, through the battle at the Ministry, she was utterly cool and calculating, as one would expect from a Ravenclaw. She was alrady thinking ahead about how they were going to get to the Ministry (Harry ignored the question when she first brought it up)when they were trying to get into Umbridge's office. When they got to that point, she's the one who calmly came up with a solution while everybody else was arguing.

Essentually, she saves the "flights of fancy" for her down time, when she's not got anything more important going on. She strikes me as someone who prefers solitiude unless the company are people she really likes, like Harry and his group. She seems to find most of her fellow students frightfully dull. She couldn't even pretend not to be bored by Malfoy and his Inquisition Squad while they were holding her (Probably the biggest insult Malfoy's gotten, yet. The Gryffindors may hate him, but at least they don't treat him as a nonentity).



Solitaire - Jan 1, 2005 2:52 pm (#535 of 1030)

Eric: She couldn't even pretend not to be bored by Malfoy and his Inquisition Squad while they were holding her (Probably the biggest insult Malfoy's gotten, yet. The Gryffindors may hate him, but at least they don't treat him as a nonentity).

Bravo, Eric! I love that assessment. And you are correct ... what could be a bigger slap in the ego to someone like Malfoy? hehe

Solitaire



Prefect Marcus - Jan 1, 2005 3:17 pm (#536 of 1030)

Eric,

That has got to be the best summation of Luna's character that I've seen. You should expand it into an essay and submit it to the Lexicon.

Marcus



wickedweasley - Jan 1, 2005 3:18 pm (#537 of 1030)

Eric your assessment of Luna is right on track, I think many people are highly prejudiced against her by the "Loony" persona. We hear comments such as I like her her but I would not choose her next to me in a battle.

Jk Rowling has once again in my opinion drawn a charactor to play on the general prejudices in people making it easy for her to surprise them with the depth and intelligence within Luna's charactor. Luna strikes me as one of those so caught up in the possibilities they can see through their own intelligence that to the rest of the world she may come accross as dizzy or unreliable, what I see is someone who refuses to be limited by the day to day drudgery of life and only chooses to come 'back to earth' when reality can measure up to all her own mind and personal fascinations can offer her.



Eric Bailey - Jan 2, 2005 2:08 am (#538 of 1030)

Thanks. I do wonder what people thought of Da Vinci in his day.

It's almost always the individualistic geniuses who make the big breakthroughs, and they're all considered a little strange by most people. Of course, being individualistic means you're not going to run with the herd, but step outside it and say "Hmmm...". I expect Luna and Hermione to have a pretty tight bond before we're done. They'll still argue, of course. Smile

And, a quote from another favorite British character, the Doctor, comes to mind: "Anyone who is even remotely interesting is a little mad".

I also have to love that a Ravenclaw is now in the inner circle. That brings a different dynamic, in itself, having someone from one of the "dark" Houses there with all those Gryffindors. You can pretty well guess how a Gryffindor is going to respond to something, but you never know what a Ravenclaw is thinking until they decide to let you know, in their own time, in their own way. I've always seen them as more dangerous than Slytherins. Or, as the essay on the Ravenclaws on Mugglenet put it, when they decide to act, better be on their good side.



Solitaire - Jan 2, 2005 9:38 am (#539 of 1030)

Eric, I'm curious ... why do you consider Ravenclaw a "dark" House? Possessing intelligence does not necessarily make one "dark." Flitwick seems anything but dark, yet two Gryffindors--Peter and Percy--are most assuredly self-serving and traitorous to those who have been their friends.

Solitaire



Hermy-own - Jan 2, 2005 1:07 pm (#540 of 1030)

I was going to query the same thing. Initially, I thought "dark" described the houses that Rowling has "left in the dark," so to speak—we know little about Ravenclaw and about Hufflepuff, and not a great deal more about Slytherin. (As an aside, I'm suspecting that this will change by the end of the series.)

"When they decide to act, better be on their good side."

Besides Marietta, when do we see their bad side? Hmmm ... I'd better read that essay.

**Toddles off to Mugglenet**



Eric Bailey - Jan 2, 2005 2:14 pm (#541 of 1030)

Well, the perception of Ravenclaws as a bit darker than Gryffindors and Hufflepuffs is generally a fanon thing, admittedly, but it fits what we know. What makes one a Gryffidor or Hufflepuff are virtues, bravery and loyalty, respectively. What makes one a Ravenclaw or Slytherin are qualities that are morally neutral. With the Slytherins, we know where they're coming from, with their obsessions with family background and money. We never know what to expect from a Ravenclaw, because the only thing they have in common is they're sharp minded and crafty. There's less unity among them than in the other three Houses. That may be why they're good at peacefully co-existing with the other Houses, because they've spent all their school years having to peacefully co-exist with one another. A Ravenclaw can be very good or very bad, and will likely excell whichever choice they make.

Anyway, the essay I was referring to is here, if anyone wants to give it a look. Quite interesting... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



Grannun Stargazer - Jan 2, 2005 8:19 pm (#542 of 1030)

Luna and Harry, most definitely a romance possible for book six.

Luna does something for Harry that no one else can do: she lightens his burden. Recall that after talking to her at the end of book five, Harry found that the "weight in his stomach seemed to have lessened slightly."

There are many facets of love, from passion to idolization, but none is more enduring than the ability to ease another's burdens.

Along this line, it would appear that Harry will tell Luna, and possibly only Luna, about the prophecy. The Prophecy will build as a millstone for Harry as he begins to fully appreciate its ramifications. He must tell someone, but whom? Especially since it's what Voldemort wants to know, Harry must choose someone completely trustworthy. Hermione is an excellent choice, except that she would increase the burden as she explored its meaning.

Ron might be a possibility, as he is like a brother to Harry. However, Rowling left us with a clue at the end of OoP that makes me wonder if Ron will temporarily be phased out of Harry's inner confidence. In fact, there may be a battle for Ron's soul at some point in book six, with Harry having to fight Ron whilst still saving him.

As slim a reed as this may be, Rowling adds a gratuitous comment in OoP:

Hermione is reading the paper to Harry and announces that the paper is nicer to Harry now. Ron responds: "He's 'the Boy Who Lived' again now, though, isn't he? said Ron darkly.

Rowling follows this statement with a cautionary note about being attacked by brain tentacles and their lasting impression as thoughts can leave deeper scarring. The Oblivious ointment was causing some improvement, but there is something sinister in hoping that oblivion induces a cure.

If Harry doesn't tell Ron about the prophecy and Hermione will just make it worse, then it's Luna, Harry's new significant other.

Now, someone want to tell me why the snakes in CoS gleam emerald when they open the door to the CoS, but Riddle's eyes gleam red (as does Voldemort's after being returned to his body)?



Prefect Marcus - Jan 3, 2005 6:33 am (#543 of 1030)

Grannun Stargazer,

Good points. However, if you are desiring a discussion on the Harry/Luna 'ship, you need to go over to the 'shipping thread.

Marcus



Solitaire - Jan 3, 2005 7:28 am (#544 of 1030)

Mugglenet's Random Facts page says the following: Harry will tell his dearest friends about the prophesy after it sinks in to him. This sounds like Ron and Hermione will learn about it as soon as Harry has had a chance to wrap his own brain around it. The fact that Hermione now believes there really are actual prophecies--based on her comment to Ron at the end of OotP--makes me think this will happen sooner rather than later. I hope so, although I think the burden this will place on Ron and Hermione, too, will be quite awesome.

I suppose whether Harry would tell someone who is not his dearest friend before he tells Ron and Hermione is up for grabs. I can see him telling Remus, I think ... but I'm not sure if he would do it before telling Ron and Hermione. Then again, the adult members of the Order may already have been informed by Dumbledore of the contents of the prophecy. After all, they were the ones guarding it all year, weren't they?

Solitaire



Grannun Stargazer - Jan 4, 2005 9:15 am (#545 of 1030)

Solitaire -

Actually, Rowling didn't say Harry would tell his "friends." She said:

Potter47: Will Harry tell Neville about the Prophesy? JK Rowling replies -> Harry will tell his nearest and dearest about the prophecy when he's ready. He needs time to digest the news himself first.

To me, that says he will tell his romantic interest, not Hermione and Ron.



Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 10:42 am (#546 of 1030)

Stargazer, I copied and pasted the above (and following) quote directly from the Mugglenet Random Facts page: Harry will tell his dearest friends about the prophesy after it sinks in to him. You can find it a little more than halfway down the Random Facts list.

If Mugglenet has cited the information incorrectly, you may wish to write to their feedback link and inform them of that fact. Smile

Also, I believe that his bonds of friendship with Ron and Hermione are probably stronger than any romantic interest he may or may not have at this time--with Luna or anyone else.

Solitaire



Ainsley Black - Jan 4, 2005 10:52 am (#547 of 1030)

Nearest and dearest is a fairly widely used phrase in the UK (I use it loads actually but then I'm a little odd!) but it generally refers to a persons closest friends and family.



Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 11:17 am (#548 of 1030)

The more I think about whom Harry will tell about the prophecy, the more I think Ron and Hermione deserve to be the first to receive that confidence from him. For five years Ron and Hermione have stuck by Harry through thick and thin. They have supported him even when it meant setting themselves against teachers and other students.

Being Harry's two closest friends has not always been an easy job for Ron or Hermione. Both of them have received detentions and unwanted attentions they might have escaped had they not been so closely linked with and supportive of Harry. When both of them MADE CHOICES to join forces with Harry in their first year at Hogwarts, they put their lives on the line, as well, to save the Stone. Their lives and fates became inextricably bound together with Harry's life and his fate.

Crushes and girlfriends may come and go in Harry's life, but I doubt he will ever have two friends who are as much a part of him as Ron and Hermione have become. The three of them are so close that, should anything happen to either Ron or Hermione, a part of Harry would be lost along with them. Luna may become a close friend of Harry's. She may be more "open" about the subject of prophecies and other things. I still feel Ron and Hermione will ultimately be the ones who learn about the prophecy first--before anyone else.

Solitaire



The One - Jan 4, 2005 11:56 am (#549 of 1030)

Potter47: Will Harry tell Neville about the Prophesy? JK Rowling replies -> Harry will tell his nearest and dearest about the prophecy when he's ready. He needs time to digest the news himself first.

To me, that says he will tell his romantic interest, not Hermione and Ron.

Not to make this into a shipping debate, but if Harry falls in love with Hermione in the beginning of OotP I can see this.

But as long as he does not have a girl friend Ron and Hermione is his "nearest and dearest", and a relationship with any other girl will have to mature a bit before he is ready to give her this kind of information. So the phrase nearest and dearest refers to Hermione and/or Ron. No one else can take that position in the first half of the HBP, not even if Harry falls in love with another girl.



MickeyCee3948 - Jan 4, 2005 12:08 pm (#550 of 1030)

I would add Neville to that mix. I think the courage and strength he showed in OotP moves him right up to a level with Ron and Hermione. Just my two knuts.

Mikie


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scoop2172000 - Jan 4, 2005 12:17 pm (#551 of 1030)

I don't see Harry telling Neville the contents of the prophecy, but I do see him letting Neville know that Dumbledore knows what the prophecy contained. Neville felt bad about the glass sphere being smashed.

Too, there's still the possibility that Dumbledore is wrong about the prophesy referring to Harry. It's possible the prophesy refers to Neville. That's even more of a reason for Harry to keep the contents themselves secret from Neville.



Elanor - Jan 4, 2005 12:22 pm (#552 of 1030)

I agree Mikie, the more because the prophecy could have applied to Neville once and it could explain him the "background" of his birth and first year too because he has certainly been protected when he was a baby as Harry was.

BTW, I think that Lupin could be added to that list as well. He probably already knows about the existence of the prophecy but maybe not know the details of it. Harry always liked him and trusted him. He may become a kind of Godfather figure for Harry now that Sirius is gone. I think that if Harry could tell him about the prophecy, Lupin would know what words to tell him that could soothe his mind.

Edit: oops! You posted when I was writing. I think you're right when you say that Neville would feel better to know that the prophecy wasn't lost. He has shown a great strength of character, in the OotP particularly, and I think that Harry will remember this.



Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 12:22 pm (#553 of 1030)

While I believe Ron and Hermione deserve to be the first two told about the contents of the prophecy, I believe Neville is third in line--not only because he could be/have been "the One," but because he has been a staunch Harry supporter since the get-go. I think Ginny and Luna should be in the next "layer" of people who learn of it.

Solitaire

Edit: I definitely with Elanor that Remus is on the list. He may be further up, with Neville. I suppose it is possible that Harry would confide in him before or with Ron and Hermione, but that isn't his usual pattern, is it? Harry generally tends to talk things over with Ron and Hermione before he shares them with others.



MickeyCee3948 - Jan 4, 2005 2:43 pm (#554 of 1030)

scoop2172000 - Do you remember how much Harry hated about being kept in the dark. I doubt that he would want Neville to find out that he knew and didn't trust him enough to discuss it with him. I agree with Solitaire. Ron and Hermione will find out first but Neville will not be far behind.

Mikie



Eric Bailey - Jan 5, 2005 1:19 am (#555 of 1030)

Harry: Luna... I need to tell you... about the Prophesy...

Luna: The one about you and Voldemort, how one of you must kill the other?

Harry: Yes... There's more to it than that...

Luna: That whole bit about how you're the only one who can destroy him for good because you were born at the end of July, and your parents had escaped him three times?

Harry: Um... Yes...

Luna: But, it could have been Neville, except for that bit where Voldemort would mark his equal?

Harry: Yeah...

Luna: Wow. Thanks for trusting me enough to confide in me, Harry. That means a lot.

Harry: Um... Of course...

Luna: Professor Dumbledore's right, though... We really need to work on your Occlumency skills.

Harry: Yeah, I know... Wait a minute... Hey, no fair!



Muggle Doctor - Jan 5, 2005 6:04 pm (#556 of 1030)

No; Neville will be first. He was the only other one standing, and Harry knows that Neville was willing to be tortured in order to stop the DEs from gaining it. He DESERVES to be first, and anything else is a travesty.

Harry may well get more useful solace out of Luna (certainly not Hermione, whose first thought will be of ways to use the knowledge), but she won't be Harry's first choice to tell:

Neville: Harry... the prophecy. You were closest; did you hear anything? What did it say?

Harry hadn't heard anything, but he'd been told what it was since. And because Neville had gone through so much with him to try to keep it, he decided to tell him.



Chemyst - Jan 5, 2005 6:17 pm (#557 of 1030)

Eric Bailey - well done!



Solitaire - Jan 5, 2005 9:03 pm (#558 of 1030)

I certainly do not see Harry as someone with limited emotions at all. On the contrary, I think we have observed an incredible range of emotions from someone who was raised in a dysfunctional home with dysfunctional people and never given an ounce of tenderness at all between the ages of one and eleven. He is amazingly well-adjusted!

It is true that the overriding emotion we see in Harry in OotP was anger. But I think that anger stemmed largely from feelings of fear, helplessness, ignorance of the facts, deprivation (by Umbridge) of almost any contact with the closest thing he can remember to a parent (Sirius), and, finally, the death of that loved one. You see Harry's all-consuming desire to save Sirius as "brave recklesness." I see it as a fear of losing the person he has come to love very deeply. I think we can see the extent of the love Harry felt for Sirius by the simple fact that he was so overflowing with it that Voldemort couldn't even bear being in his body.

Granted, Harry's anger at Dumbledore over Sirius's death--once they are back at school--is somewhat misplaced. He behaves a lot like a child in that scene. But I think a lot of that rage is the expression of a grief that has cut him to the quick--a grief so terrible he doesn't even know how to express the pain. Until he is able to express that pain and sorrow, he will certainly not able to acknowledge his own contribution to the circumstances that led to Sirius's death. When he does, though, I fear the pain accompanying that acceptance will be acute.

Regarding more tender emotions ... toward the end of PS/SS, we see him so overcome with emotion at the gift Hagrid gives him--the album full of photos of his parents that Hagrid got from the Potters' old friends--that he is unable to speak.

His reaction seems much the same at the end of OotP, when he sees all of the Order members, the twins, Ron and Hermione--and Mrs. Weasley hugging him again. He somehow could not find words to tell them what it meant to him, to see them all ranged there, on his side. Instead he smiled, raised a hand in farewell ...

Harry also seems pretty capable of experiencing the old butterflies in the stomach when he is around Cho ... although she brings a lot of complicated feelings and baggage with her. Yes, a lot of this is hormone-related; but his feelings seem pretty strong for what must be a first love.

Harry certainly had strong feelings when he was trying to describe the events in the graveyard to Dumbledore and Sirius. When he got to the part about his parents coming out of Voldemort's wand--he became too choked up to talk. Later, in the hospital, when Mrs. Weasley hugged him--He had no memory of ever being hugged like this, as though by a mother. The full weight of everything he had seen that night seemed to fall in upon him as Mrs. Weasley held him to her. His mother's face, his father's voice, the sight of Cedric, dead on the ground all started spinning in his head until he could hardly bear it, until he was screwing up his face against the howl of misery fighting to get out of him."

In PoA, we see him experiencing feelings of joy at discovering Sirius, the amazing sadness when he felt he was immediately going to lose him ... He is even able to experience the complex emotions that go along with knowing he has helped Sirius become free, yet he is sad because he won't be able to be with him and see him, since Sirius has to go into hiding.

I don't know ... I can think of a lot of things for which people might criticize Harry. Somehow, having limited emotions certainly isn't one of them. If anything, I find Luna to be a bit emotionally limited, compared to Harry!

Solitaire

Edit: Sorry this turned out to be about Harry, but it is a response to a comment in the above post. If it needs to be moved, please feel free to do so.



Elanor - Jan 5, 2005 10:26 pm (#559 of 1030)

This is brilliant Solitaire! You should post it on the Harry thread as well, it is really a great analysis!

About Harry's anger in OotP, I have always wondered if, somehow, Voldemort's anger wouldn't had rubbed off on him and "kept the fire burning" inside him.

As for Luna, I hope we will hear more about her in HBP because she certainly has more than one ace up her sleeve.



Eric Bailey - Jan 5, 2005 11:42 pm (#560 of 1030)

Well, I think the scene with the Inquisitor Squad was pretty revealing about how things affect her. She found Umbridge, Malfoy, and company boring, and would have considered them beneath her notice if they'd hadn't been holding her at wandpoint. And even then, they were only worth consideration until she could get away from them. She just knows how to rise above the petty things. Harry seems to have figured out how to do that, judging from his dismissal of Malfoy and company after the DoM battle. Once Ron and Neville figure out that some people are just beneath them, Malfoy's ability to get their goats will be done.



wwtMask - Jan 6, 2005 6:02 am (#561 of 1030)

Regarding that scene, I think Luna was playing it very cool there. The Ravenclaw in her would have accepted that, at the time, there was no need to waste the energy struggling when they were at a disadvantage. We have no way of knowing this, but I think her brain was in overdrive trying to find a way out of the predicament.



Muggle Doctor - Jan 6, 2005 2:01 pm (#562 of 1030)

Some may consider this a 'ship' post, but it has to do with Luna's nature, so it goes here.

If Harry ends up with Luna as his Most Significant Other, it is because Luna can offer him what no other girl at Hogwarts can - empathy, not just sympathy. Their conversation at the end of OOTP was the giveaway to this; she was able to let him see that she really did know how it feels to see someone you love die.

She is a complex young lady with deep emotions; we have barely begun to scratch her surface. I think her father is possibly something of an eccentric, and Luna - who has been raised by him for the last six years - has probably inherited a great deal of his eccentricity.

Has anyone read "No Highway" (I think that's the one) by Neville Shute? The daughter of the aeronautical engineer Theo Honey is in a similar situation; somewhat spaced-out child raised by a widowed eccentric father.



total hatred - Jan 15, 2005 7:32 pm (#563 of 1030)

I sort of disagree with you Muggle Doctor. I agree that Luna can provide Harry with empathy. She is not the only one and I believe that Hermione shows empathy to Harry. The only difference is that she does it covertly compared to Luna overt actions.



Michael Franz - Jan 17, 2005 7:37 am (#564 of 1030)

In Book 5, one of Luna's most prominently mentioned features is her "oddly protruberant, unblinking" eyes. Hmmm... Lovegood... Lovecraft... I wonder if Luna has any relatives from Innsmouth?

[Aronson, Julie]Julie Aronson [/b]- Jan 18, 2005 10:02 am (#565 of 1030)

MF:

Go Pods!!

Julie



scoop2172000 - Jan 18, 2005 1:03 pm (#566 of 1030)

I think Hermione gives Harry sympathy, but Luna goes beyond that by giving empathy.

What's the difference? Sympathy means feeling bad for someone, while empathy means knowing how bad the person feels.

Luna lost her mother tragically in an accident -- Luna actually witnessed the death. Thus she has a sense of what Harry is feeling, him having seen Sirius go into the veil, never to emerge.

Hermione has never lost a parent nor seen someone die, so I don't think she's able to empathize with Harry.



Jak Frank - Jan 22, 2005 6:23 am (#567 of 1030)

It seemed to me that Luna was much more interested (as in love interest) in Ron, or "Ronald" if you like.

She is my favorite character, but she isn't a good love interest for Harry at all. However, a Ron, Luna, Hermoine love-triangle... think about it.



Eric Bailey - Jan 22, 2005 11:13 am (#568 of 1030)

Oh, I think she works best with Harry, as far as romantic pairings go. She's the only one besides Hermione who doesn't think of him as The Boy Who Lived first, and Harry second. She likes Harry for Harry.



Jak Frank - Jan 22, 2005 4:40 pm (#569 of 1030)

As far as Luna and Harry is concerned, I would be very dissapointed. I think it would be a mistake on the part of Ms. Rowling to pair the two together.

As for all the reasons I have read so far, I will say to all of you that you are looking simply at WHAT they are and how the two are similar in that way. But as anyone should know, you have to look at WHO they are, and they don't mesh.

Like I said, I would think it a very big mistake on Ms. Rowling's part to put the two together. I think she would ruin the character of Luna, who is by far the best character in the book.



Eric Bailey - Jan 22, 2005 6:29 pm (#570 of 1030)

Well, the only other person Harry has that kind of great chemistry with is Hermione, and JKR seems determined to stick her with Ron.



Choices - Jan 22, 2005 6:53 pm (#571 of 1030)

As I have said before, I think the Hermione/Ron thing is just a diversion.



Catherine - Jan 22, 2005 6:55 pm (#572 of 1030)

Perhaps this discussion, if it continues, needs to be on the 'shipping thread.



Muggle Doctor - Jan 23, 2005 4:19 pm (#573 of 1030)

Jak Frank wrote: I would think it a very big mistake on Ms. Rowling's part to put the two together. I think she would ruin the character of Luna, who is by far the best character in the book.

Quite probably. I only mentioned the Harry/Luna connection to illustrate a point about Luna's nature and personality, rather than to support a 'ship between the two. Like Harry, I think Luna stands better on her own without any overt romantic tension with any of the other characters.

Hermione functions very well to set Harry on the straight and narrow vis a vis what he needs to accomplish, but she is not very good at cradling broken hearts. Luna will be very good for Harry when it comes to easing the raw emotional wounds, enabling him to pay attention to Hermione without having to snap at her that she doesn't know how he feels.

Harry needs both of them for the sake of his own sanity (Luna) and continued existence (Hermione). Whether he ends up "going out" with either of them is irrelevant.



Jak Frank - Jan 23, 2005 5:20 pm (#574 of 1030)

What you say is true, Muggle Doctor. To take it a step further, I believe the reason that Harry feels comfortable around Luna is because she never pries. She listens, but never asks questions. The fact of the matter is that you can't be mad around her or at her because she is so innocent in her ways that there can never be any justification for being upset with her.

The last scene about her stolen stuff shows that she knows what everyone thinks about her and what they say, and while she is obviously sad about it... she just accepts it for what it is.

She is a person very detached from the world, but at the same time it seems like she is more a part of it than anyone else in the series. Perhaps you could even say that she has an enlightened feel to her personality where she is above pettiness, and looks at everything with a very open mind.

An example of this is when she is wearing the big Lion's head and says she is rooting for Harry and gang. She doesn't even imply that she is doing it because she dislikes Slyth. Then, when Harry sees her after the game, she is whistling (humming?) "Weasley is Our King" for no other reason than beause it was catchy and she liked the tune (or because she might think of "Ronald" as her king in a way?).



Gary L Varnam - Mar 6, 2005 5:54 am (#575 of 1030)

If I was going to Hogwarts at the time of Harry Potter I would ask Luna Lovegood for a date. I would marry her and have a Family of 15 children.



Choices - Mar 6, 2005 9:27 am (#576 of 1030)

LOL Gary - I think that says some lovely things about you. :-)



Madame Pomfrey - Mar 6, 2005 12:08 pm (#577 of 1030)

Good post Jak.You described the character I like so well to a tee.



Jak Frank - Mar 6, 2005 4:16 pm (#578 of 1030)

Thanks.



Luisa - Apr 4, 2005 2:19 pm (#579 of 1030)

Luna Lovegood is my favourite female character in the books. I think she's my favourite because she is so like me. I stare randomly into space and believe in such strange things. I don't think Harry and Luna will be involved romantically, but I think they will stay good friends. I think Harry could talk to Luna about Sirius because Luna didn't really know what Sirius meant to Harry. So it was sort of like when Neville asked if Sirius was a friend of his. Harry didn't feel weird or upset, but he just answered, "yeah," and they moved on. Luna could also see the thestrals, which was something that he had experienced with her. It was this, more than anything I think, that linked Harry to Luna.



Muggle Doctor - Apr 26, 2005 5:37 am (#580 of 1030)

Luna is definitely Harry's soulmate, even if she never becomes his 'ship-mate: she is the only one who can hold those awkward, yet necessary, conversations with him and not have him fly off the handle. There's just something in her that he can't get angry at. Shades of Mary-Lou from Enid Blyton's Malory Towers stories.



Ydnam96 - May 14, 2005 9:53 pm (#581 of 1030)

Soooooo

JK's site update says that Luna is NOT Snape's daughter, which is a rumor I hadn't heard (maybe I haven't paid enough attention) but she does say that she is the daughter of "Mr. Lovegood, Editor of the Quibbler". I find it very interesting that Mr. Lovegood has no first name and has no more description than "Editor of the Quibbler"...I have heard the rumor that Lupin is really Mr. Lovegood...which I am not a fan of...but anyway it does seem a little sketchy the way she answered that question...



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jun 8, 2005 10:46 am (#582 of 1030)

I think I would cry if Lupin was Luna's father. I adore Lupin, and I still don't care for Luna. (No offense to you Luisa, since you say you are like her. I'm sure you're a great person)



applepie - Jun 8, 2005 10:50 am (#583 of 1030)

I think that we attach ourselves (in whatever way) to Lupin and Luna for very different reasons, and those reasons are not at all related, so I don't anticipate the two of them to be related either.



Catherine - Jun 18, 2005 6:56 am (#584 of 1030)

.I have heard the rumor that Lupin is really Mr. Lovegood...which I am not a fan of...but anyway it does seem a little sketchy the way she answered that question... --Ydnam

I thought it was sketchy, too, but for different reasons (as though Snape could have a son, but not a daughter--oh well, JKR likes to tease us so.).

I don't give that rumor much credit. Lupin is a man of common sense, and I don't see him giving rise to flights of fancy in the manner that Luna has.

I think JKR answsered truthfully--Luna is the daughter of Mr. Lovegood, a publisher of a rather unusual paper and a deceased witch who loved to experiment to her own cost.

Luna, as I see her, should be evaluated on who she is rather than whose daughter she might be.



Ms Amanda - Jun 14, 2005 2:55 am (#585 of 1030)

There's no way Lupin would name his daughter after the moon because the full moon is his greatest fear. Of course, fear of the name increases fear of the thing itself...

But seriously, something is up with that girl. Luna's character intrigues me, and her name makes her stand out as well. I just haven't seen the clues, which I'm sure JKR has laid, as to Luna's significance to the rest of the story.



Not So Headless Nikki - Jun 14, 2005 6:20 am (#586 of 1030)

Does Luna even look at all like Lupin? (Not that that would matter, but so far we have seen a family-resemblence amongst most of the major characters.)



LooneyLuna - Jun 14, 2005 6:52 am (#587 of 1030)
Edited Jun 14, 2005 7:54 am

I think Luna's significance as a character is to teach Harry to have faith in the unseen/unknown. Luna is all about the unseen and having faith. She has faith that she'll see her mother again, but nothing concrete to back that up.

Luna is also an outsider, but it doesn't bother her. Harry can empathize with Luna in a way that he cannot with anyone else.

I think at some point in the next two books, Harry will have to make a leap of faith, and he will be able to do it because of his friendship with Luna.

Luna also gives Harry hope.



Paulus Maximus - Jun 20, 2005 4:08 pm (#588 of 1030)
Edited Jun 20, 2005 5:10 pm

I very much doubt that Lupin is Mr. Lovegood. As a member of the Order of the Phoenix, Lupin really doesn't have time to go to Sweden and chase Crumple-Horned Snorkacks, and I can't see him making a promise with the intention of breaking it...



Riley the Happy Dude - Jul 1, 2005 12:24 pm (#589 of 1030)

Where did the rumor about Lupin being Luna's father start? I find that rumor to be so far fetched that even Luna might not believe it (well, duh).

I think that Luna has to be a major character in the last 2 books for many reasons, most of which have been said but here is one that hasn't.

All of the characters that Harry rides with for the majority of the Hogwarts Express ride to school have become major characters. I'll go over the books one by one:

OP/SS: Ron, who says he isn't a major character?

CS: Harry doesn't ride the train

PA: Lupin, part of the Order

GF: Neville is a big part of the BoM

OP: Luna, HBP and the 7th book aren't out yet.



Steve Newton - Jul 1, 2005 1:02 pm (#590 of 1030)
Edited Jul 1, 2005 2:02 pm

Riley, you left out Ginny in OOTP, and Hermione in POA.

TomProffitt, who hasn't been around for a while, suggested that this was Harry's 'core group.' I like the name.

Oops, a correction. I just checked another thread that TomProffitt seems to be back. Maybe I just missed him.



Finn BV - Jul 1, 2005 3:04 pm (#591 of 1030)
Edited Jul 1, 2005 4:05 pm

I don't know where we got that Lupin is Luna's father, but I thought we resolved this when J.K. Rowling answered that question with, "Is Snape Luna's father?" She says:

"This is a most tantalising idea, but no, Mr. Lovegood, the editor of 'the Quibbler', really is Luna's father and Snape does not have a daughter."

Then everybody got off on the fact that Snape doesn't have a daughter as opposed to a "child." Apparently we forget the main part of the question and answer.



The giant squid - Jul 1, 2005 10:21 pm (#592 of 1030)

I think someone offered that Lupin was a more likely candidate than Snape, and the theory machine was off and running.



Solitaire - Jul 2, 2005 6:37 am (#593 of 1030)

I think it may have also been connected to Remus's "moon issues" and Luna's name ... a good reason why I think he would NEVER call a daughter Luna! LOL

Solitaire



Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 2, 2005 9:45 am (#594 of 1030)

Luna seems very close to her father. When members of the Order arrived at MoM there was no connection between her and Lupin. I would think Remus would be very concerned about his daughter. LPO



Finn BV - Jul 2, 2005 10:19 am (#595 of 1030)

Well obviously if it were a secret, LPO, I would think he wouldn't go up to her and say, "Luna! My dear! How have you been getting along not telling anybody I'm your father?" even it were a moment of life or death.



Solitaire - Jul 2, 2005 11:14 am (#596 of 1030)

During the last scene, I got the very distinct impression that Remus and the other Order members would be quite handy to check on Harry during his "internment" with the Dursleys. If I remember correctly, Luna and her dad are going on an expedition to Sweden to catch a Crumple-horned Snorkack. Also, like LPO, I really see no chemistry or connection between Remus and Luna. Remus seems far more connected to Harry.

Solitaire



Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 2, 2005 1:31 pm (#597 of 1030)

LOL fbv807, though I'm not sure why it needs to be a secret. I agree Solitaire I think Remus is more attached to Harry than Luna. At this point her dad is a flat character that does not need to be developed. He served a purpose being the editor of the Quibbler. Besides I can't see Remus publishing that paper. He seems to practical. LPO



David Breeze - Aug 4, 2005 10:14 am (#598 of 1030)
Edited by Aug 4, 2005 11:19 am

Personally, I am not and never have been, a fan of Luna. However I feel that she must have a vital purpose to serve in Book 7. Why else would JK Rowling have introduced such a major character so late in the series?

I feel that Luna's name might also be a clue to her eventual role. Her surname, Lovegood, has the word love in it. Love is of course the great weekness of Lord Voldemort.

Bearing in mind that the two werewolves we have met so far in the series both have names connected to either the moon or wolves (Remus Lupin, Fenrir Greyback) it seems a great coincidence that her name is Luna, a term for the moon. This presents three interesting possibilities:

1) She's a werewolf (Daubtful as the trio would have encountered her in the shreaking shack in PoA)

2) She invents a cure that stops people becoming werewolves (Most Likely Possibility. She may find a cure whilst searching for crumple-horned-snorkjacks, and work with herbologist Neville in developing the medicine)

3) She becomes a werewolf after being bitten by Fenrir in Book 7; Either during the final battle or as a revenge attck because her dad may print an article in the Quibbler that Fenrir takes offense to.

People are also rumouring that Lupin is her father because of the moon connection. I think it is Luna's mother that we should be concentrating on. We know very little about her. Do we know of any female characters who died between 1982 and 1995?

Who do you all think she could have been? Anyone important?

Luna is the only Ravenclaw that we know a great deal about. It would seem strange that she is in Ravenclaw, as she dosn't seem that brainy, and sounds rather like Hufflepuff material. So why is she in Ravenclaw? Maybe its because her mother was a descendant of Rowena Ravenclaw. Could the Lovegoods be in possetion of the Ravenclaw Horcrux...



Steve Newton - Aug 4, 2005 10:24 am (#599 of 1030)

You don't mean....the lion hat?



Ms Hagrid - Aug 4, 2005 3:59 pm (#600 of 1030)

David - I was also thinking that Luna was introduced into the story for a specific reason, and I'm not sure we've seen it yet. It makes sense that she would be a key person to help Harry find the Ravenclaw Horcrux (even if her family doesn't actually possess it).


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Chemyst - Aug 4, 2005 4:40 pm (#601 of 1030)
Edited Aug 4, 2005 5:49 pm

....the lion hat? LOL

I was disappointed that we didn't get more follow-up about Luna's crumple-horned snorcacks. I'm heart-fond of David's idea that she might find a cure for werewolf bites; she certainly has demonstrated her ability to think outside the box and that may be exactly what it takes to finds a cure. But the more rational part of me doesn't see that happening; partly because JKR has made it a point to say there is no cure, but mostly because I think "Luna" was chosen for its 'lunatic' and 'dreamer' implications rather than for any allusion to werewolves; and with the way the story is structured, if someone were to find a cure, there are better candidates.

I agree that she must have a vital purpose to serve in Book 7. But I think it's more likely her "unusual" knowledge will help Harry either locate or, possibly learning from her mother's experimentation, help him safely destroy a horcrux.



Finn BV - Aug 4, 2005 4:43 pm (#602 of 1030)

I hadn't thought about Luna being a werewolf, even though just the other day on the Greyback thread I was noting that all the werewolves that we know of have names describing a werewolf! Very interesting!

I don't think Luna is in possession of the Ravenclaw horcrux, because she was introduced in OoP, and we already have an OoP horcrux, and I seem to belong to the theory each horcrux was/will be introduced in a different book.

Still, Luna should have burst onto the scene much earlier, like Figgy or Dung. Too late now, I guess!



David Breeze - Aug 5, 2005 1:54 am (#603 of 1030)

Whilst it is true that Luna was introduced in OoTP, which already has the locket, we never saw the Horcrux itself. If she does have it, we may see it in book 7.



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 5, 2005 3:19 pm (#604 of 1030)

Fin, what were the horcruxs mentioned in PS, POA, and GOF?

I was glad Luna had a smaller part in this book since I still don't care for her much either, but I agree with David that she will serve a higher purpose.



Finn BV - Aug 5, 2005 4:54 pm (#605 of 1030)

Matilda, the theory is still being formulated, but Good Evans started the idea (Good Evans, "Horcruxes" #392, 1 Aug 2005 12:35 pm). Keep reading further on and you will discover more of the idea. PoA has been the hardest book in which to find a horcrux.



Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 5, 2005 6:17 pm (#606 of 1030)

I like Luna. She is amusing. On JKR's website she has confirmed that Luna is the daughter of Mr. Lovegood. So Lupin is not her father. The Lovegoods were mentioned in GoF when they took the portkey to the Quidditch World Cup. LPO



Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 6, 2005 11:20 am (#607 of 1030)

Thanks. I'll have to go and read that whole thread more carefully now.



Uncle Mikey - Aug 7, 2005 5:09 pm (#608 of 1030)

Tim I know what you mean. I can't read about Luna without hearing Joni Mitchell's "Ladies Of The Canyon" running through my head.



Radish Girl - Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am (#609 of 1030)

Um, sorry if I sound ridiculous, but what horcrux was found in OotP? I was under the impression that we didn't know when the real locket had been destroyed, just that it had been.



Steve Newton - Aug 19, 2005 12:22 pm (#610 of 1030)

The hot speculation has it that the locket which no one could open while cleaning 12 Grimmauld Place was the missing locket. I get no hint that anyone is thinking that is has been destroyed as a Horcrux.



Gregory Royal - Aug 19, 2005 1:14 pm (#611 of 1030)

Getting back to the subject of Luna Lovegood.

I was disappointed by the Harry-Ginny relationship. I have a certain fondness in my heart for Luna Lovegood and hoped Harry would date her. Ah well, it's not my book to write.

That aside, I'm worried that Luna will no longer be an important part of the story. She is, after all, a grade beneath Harry, Ron and Hermione, and likely won't be accompanying Harry as he's not returning to school next year.



The giant squid - Aug 19, 2005 2:33 pm (#612 of 1030)

Gregory, it is possible that McGonagall follows through on her threat to close Hogwarts next year...which would free up all the students (HRH, Neville, Ginny, Luna...) to fight the good fight. In fact, since Harry's story is by necessity straying away from the school I think this is what's probably going to happen. JKR's invested too much into Luna, Neville & Ginny to have them fade away at the end.

--Mike



Robert Dierken - Aug 19, 2005 6:53 pm (#613 of 1030)
Edited Aug 19, 2005 7:53 pm

Luna's mother died while conducting an experiment of some sort.

Perhaps it is possible that Harry will borrow Madam Lovegood's notes about previous experiments and find therein something that he will need?

Did the failed experiment involve a horcrux?



Sparrowhawk - Aug 19, 2005 11:59 pm (#614 of 1030)

Gregory, I think that Luna will reappear in book 7, and maybe she'll help Harry to discover one of the Horcruxes. She's the only Ravenclaw student to have played a significant part in the series so far, and I think that JKR had a specific reason to include a character belonging to that particular House... Don't loose hope!



Dr Filibuster - Aug 20, 2005 12:11 am (#615 of 1030)

Robert, I'm hoping that we will read more on Mrs Loveoods experimental work too.

Sparrowhawk, I'm with you. In a recent interview (Melissa & Emerson?) JKR was given some stick for lack of Ravenclaws. Jo said something like; "Oh, don't worry, Ravenclaw will get their moment of glory".

She says she thoroughly enjoys Luna's character so I reckon she'll have a significant role in the next book.



Chemyst - Aug 20, 2005 5:22 am (#616 of 1030)

Oh. I think Luna will play a supporting but pivotal role in the final book. She had three scenes in HBP; the quidditch commentary, Harry's Christmas date, and the hallway to the tower battle. She is not being phased out. She has survived two battles, and I doubt she'd have an abrupt shock-death departure.

It was sort of sweet how, when inviting her to the party, Harry was very specific about it being "as a friend." I also found it amusing how well she engaged Trelawny in conversation. No one else finds out the sort of information Luna does, because no one else asks her kind of questions. On one level you could discount that as two oddballs making their own little 'outsiders club' but on another level, each in their own quirky way are positioned to make small but vital contributions. (You could reasonably argue that the prophecy was a "big" contribution, but I meant "small" in a time-sense; it took only about five minutes and didn't require any preparation on Sibyll's part.)



Steve Newton - Aug 20, 2005 6:54 am (#617 of 1030)

Harry's core group is defined by the people who ride with him to school on the Express. These people are Ron, Hermione, Lupin, Ginny, Neville, and.....Luna. They will all play pivotal roles in the seventh book.



Madam Pince - Aug 20, 2005 4:02 pm (#618 of 1030)

Chemyst, I like your point about the way Luna asks questions. She's so very direct, and even though she appears to be a "space cadet" she somehow manages to skewer right to the heart of the issue. I think it's highly likely that she will figure out something important in Book 7, something where the rest of them will all slap their palms against their heads and say "Duh! Why didn't we think of that?"



Steve Newton - Aug 20, 2005 5:16 pm (#619 of 1030)

Luna has some elusive moments of clarity and focus. In OOTP she is the one who suggests flying to the MOM and keeps coming back to the subject. People don't pay attention but that is another issue.



Saralinda Again - Aug 20, 2005 8:22 pm (#620 of 1030)
Edited Aug 20, 2005 9:24 pm

I've said this before, can't recall where or when ...

Luna has some very important skills that Harry is lacking. Luna has that martial arts ability to relax and let the bad guys hurt themselves. She also has faith, in herself and her friends, and what I guess we'd call karma -- something that Harry needs a big dose of.

Critical Luna moments:

# When she is serene about her missing items, knowing that somehow they will all be returned to her in time to pack
# When alone of all the Six, rather than fight her captor in Umbridge's office, she relaxes and zones out
# All of her examples of painfully frank honesty. (Without honesty, it's tough to have a meaningful love, and all of Harry's friends are teaching him some component or another of what love is}
# The Rotfang conspiracy. If she said nothing else, she would have my heart!

I think she is about the coolest female character ever, cooler by far than Tonks, who is fabulous. I was a closet Harry/Luna 'shipper on a very modest scale. She also must have some serious backstory (beyond even seeing her mother die) to her that JKR might not get around to telling us.

I love her skewed version of reality -- a goofy, dreamy, conspiracy geek witch!



haymoni - Aug 20, 2005 9:14 pm (#621 of 1030)

I loved her snappy retort to Hermione - that she had to have everything spelled out, put out in front of her.

Sometimes you just have to trust...to believe.



Dame Peverell - Aug 21, 2005 5:18 pm (#622 of 1030)

Why do I have the impression that, compared to her father, she is reasonably well grounded in reality?



Saralinda Again - Aug 22, 2005 7:00 am (#623 of 1030)

Dame Peverell: Why do I have the impression that, compared to her father, she is reasonably well grounded in reality?

Golly, I don't know, but I get the same impression.



Steve Newton - Aug 22, 2005 7:00 am (#624 of 1030)

Possibly, but, remember her father did get some money for selling Rita's interview with Harry. Of course, he did spend it looking for the Crumple Horned Snorkack. Looks like a toss up to me.



Saralinda Again - Aug 22, 2005 7:01 am (#625 of 1030)
Edited Aug 22, 2005 8:05 am

I will be desperately disappointed if a Crumple Horn Snorkack doesn't figure prominently in Book Seven.

I long to see that animal!

In fact, I'm going to scramble up and change my "second line."

Hee hee hee ... [Mischief managed}



Steve Newton - Aug 22, 2005 7:10 am (#626 of 1030)

"I will be desperately disappointed if a Crumple Horn Snorkack doesn't figure prominently in Book Seven."

Me, too!

It would also seriously tic off my 13 year old son.



Dame Peverell - Aug 22, 2005 7:55 am (#627 of 1030)
Edited Aug 22, 2005 9:01 am

Gee, I wonder what Luna's Patronus is.

The Blibbering Humdinger?



Soul Search - Aug 22, 2005 9:39 am (#628 of 1030)

I think I may have figured Luna out, at least a bit.

I'm not saying she isn't a bit flakey, but her scenes in HBP struck me a little differently than those in OotP. Might take a bit of explaining, though.

I got my inspiration from the scene on the Hogwart's Express in "Snape Victorious" where Luna asks "Wrackspurt got you?" Harry was pondering the prophecy, Neville, and his own fate, and feeling, and looking, a bit depressed.

Luna invented the Wrackspurt as a joke, to cheer Harry up. EXACTLY what Harry needed to bring him out of his funk.

Her RotFang conspiracy at Slughorn's party fits the "joke" concept as well. In fact, if you go back and review, even OotP, most of Luna's outrageous suggestions fit the discusson context as a joke. Rethink Nargles in the mistletoe, Crumple Horn Snorkack (focus on vacation with dad), just about all her pronouncements. And, Luna enjoys poking up-tight Hermione; thinks she should lighten up a bit.

So far, no one has caught on, though. But, someone will. Hermione would never figure this out, but Harry might. Maybe Ginny has already figured out Luna; she says "Luna's all right" when we first meet her.

I wonder if the whole Quibbler is really meant as a form of humor magazine, rather than a platform for the off-beat and weird. Sort of "Mad" for the wizarding world.

This change of view of Luna has also revised my opinion of her future storyline. Luna will have a continuing role. She and Neville are a part of Harry's team and each bring something that others don't.

Previous posts point out Luna's rather unique character, especially a "calmness" that allows her to focus on the problem at hand better than anyone else. Her frankness and honest commentary are unique, and rather valuable.

Luna's role will be quite significant.



timrew - Aug 22, 2005 2:21 pm (#629 of 1030)

Soul Search:- I wonder if the whole Quibbler is really meant as a form of humor magazine, rather than a platform for the off-beat and weird. Sort of "Mad" for the wizarding world.

Then the Crumple Horned Snorcack would be the equivalent of Alf Newman? Yeah, I can see that...........



Saralinda Again - Aug 22, 2005 8:35 pm (#630 of 1030)

The "Bloom County" newpaper comic by Berke Breathed used to have a monster that lived in one character's "anxiety closet." The monster was called, I believe, the purple-horned snorklewacker. No matter how I try, I cannot picture the crumple-horn snorkack looking like anything other than that dratted snorklewacker.



total hatred01 - Aug 22, 2005 11:20 pm (#631 of 1030)
Edited Aug 23, 2005 12:23 am

I think Quibler is newpaper where true meaning of the stories are cleverly hidden. It is a clever way to thrash the people in power while minimizing the risk of libel.



The giant squid - Aug 23, 2005 12:32 am (#632 of 1030)

Soul Search, that's a very interesting read of Luna's character, and I think you just might be right. At the very least I've always thought there was something calculated to her oddness--the roaring lion hat for the Gryffindor quidditch match, for instance...

Thanks, Saralinda, now that darned snorklwacker's gonna show up every time I reread HP. "Whoops, wrong closet!"

--Mike



haymoni - Aug 23, 2005 2:32 am (#633 of 1030)

I still think that there is something to Luna reading the Quibbler upside down.

A few people suggested that she had turned it over to get the answer to a quiz, but she's actually reading it that way.

I wonder if that is how the more outlandish conspiracy theories are printed.

(Maybe The Shrinking Clothing Sizes Conspiracy is spelled out there??!!)



The giant squid - Aug 23, 2005 11:40 pm (#634 of 1030)

haymoni, I think the outlandish theories are printed regularly...to get the real stories you need to read it upside-down.



haymoni - Aug 24, 2005 3:24 am (#635 of 1030)

Ah! Even better!



Soul Search - Aug 24, 2005 4:46 am (#636 of 1030)

Reading secret texts upside down. Very good.

And, what about those "psychedelic spectacles" from the issue Luna is reading in the train in HBP? Reveals secret writing?

I think we are on to something gang.



Dame Peverell - Aug 24, 2005 5:00 am (#637 of 1030)

I really love the MAD magazine comparison. It changes my whole perception of Luna and her Dad.
# Remember how in Mad magazine you would fold the back page a certain way and a whole different picture would show up?
# Wasn't it Mad magazine that had Spy vs. Spy?
# Suddenly she seems very sane. And very, very cool.



wwtMask - Aug 24, 2005 10:06 am (#638 of 1030)

I always thought she was very cool. I was somewhat disappointed that we didn't see more of Luna, as she's an awesome character. JKR is going to incur my wrath if we don't get a "Luna Moment" or two in the next book! :-)



haymoni - Aug 24, 2005 10:09 am (#639 of 1030)
Edited Aug 24, 2005 11:09 am

When you look back at school, some of the coolest kids were the ones that followed their own path.

They dressed differently, they didn't care what other people thought about them.

Maybe they weren't the most popular, but they were pretty cool people to know.

I think Luna is a great character and I don't think it was a coincidence that we didn't meet her until Harry was 15 & she was 14.



Madam Pince - Aug 24, 2005 10:50 am (#640 of 1030)

LOL Saralinda about the Bloom County closet creature! I loved that guy! I agree, if that's not a crumple-horned snorkack then I don't know what is.

I was re-reading the "Luna Quidditch Commentary" in HBP last night, and again it strikes me how cool and collected she is. Nothing seems to bother her. I mean, how would most of us feel if we were on a microphone in front of a lot of people and suddenly couldn't remember the name of someone we were supposed to be talking about? Luna is calm and serene -- could not care less that she forgot the silly guy's name, nor that McGonnagal yells it at her in front of everybody. Luna is one cool customer, and will be good to have around in a time of chaos, I think.



Soul Search - Aug 24, 2005 2:16 pm (#641 of 1030)

Actually, "the Lovegoods" were mentioned in GoF in the "The Portkey." They lived nearby, but couldn't get tickets to the World Cup. Just another example of JKR providing background for everything, even Luna.

I was a little surprised when I made the Luna Lovegood connection to GoF. Apparently, the Lovegoods lived reasonably close, yet Ron had never met Luna. Ginny had met her, obviously, but whether from Hogwarts or earlier, we can't tell. Don't wizard families socialize at all?

haymoni, I don't understand the age reference.



haymoni - Aug 25, 2005 2:53 am (#642 of 1030)

I think that when you are 14 & 15 the lines are well established at school about who the popular kids are and who is a geek or just plain weird.

I think introducing Luna before that time might not have had the same effect if Harry had met her when he was 12 & she was 11.



wwtMask - Aug 25, 2005 9:22 am (#643 of 1030)

I'd have Luna by my side in any battle. She's confident and collected at all times, which I'm sure came in handy during the MoM battle. Harry was right; she and Neville are cool. Given the same circumstances, would anyone else have held up under that pressure? I just wonder why they didn't get more respect from their peers, after having fought next to Harry against DEs.



Finn BV - Aug 26, 2005 3:21 pm (#644 of 1030)

I was re-reading the "Luna Quidditch Commentary" in HBP last night, and again it strikes me how cool and collected she is. Nothing seems to bother her. --Madam Pince

But that's because it doesn't matter to her, which is what I love. She is so comfortable in front of anyone -- because she doesn't mind what's going to happen to her reputation. She doesn't care about her social status, just as long as she is happy with herself.

Ah, perhaps this wisdom is a qualifier for Ravenclaw and that's why she made it in…



Saracene - Aug 14, 2005 12:45 pm (#645 of 1030)

Luna is the coolest and definitely one of my favourites. I love her strangeness and her penchant for speaking uncomfortable truths and the way she´s so serenely indifferent to what other people think of her quirks. Her lion hat in OotP was awesome, Smile

[Robertson, Derek]Derek Robertson [/b]- Aug 30, 2005 3:47 am (#646 of 1030)

I'm not convinced we're going to see all that much of Luna in book 7. At the end of HBP I got the impression Harry saw Luna and Neville as a couple.

I don't think Luna and Neville will be part of the group that go Horcrux busting but we'll definately see them again, perhaps in the climatic battle between the goodies and baddies?



Finn BV - Aug 30, 2005 4:07 am (#647 of 1030)
Edited Sep 30, 2005 5:08 am

Derek, while Harry may have seen Luna and Neville as a couple, they most certainly will not get together:

From J.K. Rowling Official Site:

Luna and Neville will hook up in HP&THBP

The Luna/Neville shippers are much less vehement and scary than the Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione tribes, so I hope I won't receive too much hate mail for quashing this rumour. I see Neville and Luna as very different kinds of people and while they share a certain isolation within Hogwarts, I don't think that's enough to foster true love - friendship, perhaps, although I think that Neville would always find Luna's wilder flights of fancy alarming.



Muggle Doctor - Oct 3, 2005 6:35 pm (#648 of 1030)

After re-reading HBP last night, I have to say I think Luna is truly brilliant. She is, as one of the characters said "Insane, but in a nice way", but I think her magical abilities are more formidable than we are given the chance to see.

I find it interesting that she should hang out with, of all people, Ginny - who is firmly grounded in practical realities and (although not intolerant) cannot stand bull**** or nonsense of any kind. For her to be able to stand Luna's company means there's more to Miss Lovegood than meets the eye.

Her consistent dreaminess and 'out there-ness' reminds me of Irene from Enid Blyton's Malory Towers - she was inimitably brilliant on paper, but inclined to slide off into a little dream world when it came to music (her passion) or maths (her academic high point) and totally scatterbrained in all other respects. In this sense, Irene is probably Luna's closest contemporary in non-HP fiction, and would be a shoo-in for Ravenclaw.

I kept on wishing Harry and Luna would hook up as more than just friends, simply so we could see her character develop and get more of her back story - after so long on the outer, it would have been wonderful to see her blossom on centre stage. But I found Ginny's comment about being glad Harry had asked Luna (platonically) to a Slug-club party, and how happy Luna was as a result, quite touching. He could have any girl he wanted, more or less, and opt to be more than just friends, yet he asks Luna - the oddball - and expects nothing of her in return.



haymoni - Oct 7, 2005 4:20 am (#649 of 1030)

Language, dear, language!



Saracene - Oct 7, 2005 4:34 am (#650 of 1030)

(sorry about that... I'm reposting it again, minus language)

I think that Luna, while certainly on her own planet in some respects, is actually amazingly free of nonsense in others and can be quite shrewd and definitely non-dreamy. For one thing she seems to be not in the least bit deluded about people and the way they see her. She keeps on making these right-on-the-money observations that frequently make people uncomfortable because they're 100% true; like her remark to Harry that people expect him to hang out with people who are cooler than her and Neville; that Ron can be cruel sometimes; that Hagrid is not really a good teacher, etc. I find her unself-conscious frankness really endearing, personally.


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Eric Bailey - Oct 7, 2005 2:28 pm (#651 of 1030)
Edited Oct 7, 2005 3:51 pm

JKR described Harry's and Ginny's relationship as Rock Star and Fangirl, so taking that anology of this bunch as a band further...

Luna and Neville are the rhythm section, almost always underappreciated, but utterly vital. If the rhythm section doesn't cut it, the band will sound bad.

As far as whether she's smart or not... Hello, Ravenclaw. One can be smart without being a Hermione-type bookworm. Considered odd? So was Da Vinci. So was Einstein. In literature, there's plenty of brilliant oddballs, from Sherlock Holmes to, of course, Albus Dumbledore. Luna balances Hermione, with her ability to think outside the box, be intuitive, and voice the absolute truth, whether or not others are comfortable with it. As far as her magical abilities are concerned, again, Ravenclaws are smart, and she's good in a fight, as we saw in the DoM battle, where she outlasted both Weasleys, and took out a Death Eater.

I also figure her background, especially her mother, will play into things. Rowling doesn't go into a character's background unless it plays into the plot, in some way.



RoseMorninStar - Oct 7, 2005 6:07 pm (#652 of 1030)

Eric, well, I will agree with one thing...there is more than one kind of 'smart'. Hermione is brainy...but she is almost logical to a fault. She is also almost too skeptical for her own good. One sometimes wonders if she is capable of being a great independent thinker. Yes, she is clever. She can read volumes and recall them brilliantly. She is grounded in logic. But one can wonder, if things are not exactly as they should logically be...and if they are not 'by the book' how much good her intelligence would do her in an unconventional situation. In other words, Hermionee, for all her brilliance and cleverness, does not appear to have a very open mind. A perfect example of this is her view of the house elves. She feels they 'must' want freedom because that is the logical (by the 'book' as she sees it) thing that the elves should want. She does not ask them, and if they would tell her, she would not listen. Because, to her, it would not be logical. In her own way, she is as condesending as say, Sirius, to the house elves.

But this is a thread on Luna. Well... by my above statements, perhaps you can tell where I think Luna will be perfectly suited to 'fill in the gaps'. Luna is almost a polar opposite of Hermione. Open to a fault. And fears not to tread where logic does not go.



Ana Cis - Oct 7, 2005 7:03 pm (#653 of 1030)
Edited by Oct 7, 2005 8:04 pm

Now Rose, be nice. Remember, Hermione represents JKR in many ways. We don't want to give the poor girl a complex here now, do we? Let's just say that if she can't find a logical/rational explanation, she has a hard time accepting it. I wonder if in Book 7, we're going to see a Crumple-Horned Snorkack. It sure would make Luna's day, and Hermione will need to apologize.





Saracene - Oct 7, 2005 7:20 pm (#654 of 1030)
Edited Oct 7, 2005 8:21 pm

I have a feeling that at least one of Luna's improbable statements will turn out to be true, Smile

With regards to Hermione and her house elves campaign: IMO she does think outside of the box there, because almost no one else seems to question the fairness of the bond between the Elves and their masters and how much of the elves' attitude is a result of centuries-long conditioning by the wizards whom they serve. Where she does go completely wrong of course is trying to tackle what is an incredibly complex issue by tactics that have the subtlety of a sledgehammer, all the while refusing to believe that the elves themselves might not see things her way.



RoseMorninStar - Oct 7, 2005 7:29 pm (#655 of 1030)

Oh Ana Cis, please, please, please don't misunderstand me! ::begging:: I think quite highly of Hermione. And I fear that I am often quite 'Hermione-ish' myself.

Every personality has its short comings. I guess I was looking at the characters in a very removed analytical way. I meant no 'put-down' either way. Although, I have to admit, I find overly pie-in-the-sky dreamers ('romantics') annoying. I often have to reign in my overly logical, skeptical side myself.

The comments about Hermione and the house elves, well, something like that came straight from the mouth of.... JKR herself! Although it is not an exact quote, it was part of an interview. She was quite harsh on Hermione. She said she & her sister took up some 'cause' when they were young and were very 'righteous' about it. She says she sees it very differently now, as an adult. She applied that experience to the character of Hermione. I wish I could remember what their 'cause' was.

Hermione, apologize. Hmm. LOL. And would Luna notice? I had just finished reading the posts over on the Severus Snape thread. The HBP potions book was being discussed. And all I could think of was... who cares who wrote it-they were brilliant at potions! Get the book back...and maybe publish a proper potions book!!!! Now, I guess that makes me waaaay too rational to enjoy the discussion.



Muggle Doctor - Oct 9, 2005 1:45 am (#656 of 1030)

I think anyone drawing comparisons between Luna and Hermione (on either girl's thread) is going to end up saying quite a lot about the other (by way of contrast, if nothing else).

What I really want to see is Luna's OWL marks - remember that the exams were only postponed, not completely cancelled, and she may well have ended up sitting them. I think she may score very highly in Divination, even if she is in Firenze's class. She holds her own so well in the company of Harry's crowd that I think we're inclined to forget she's in Ginny's year.

For that matter, we're almost inclined to forget that Ginny's a year younger than Harry & co (but that's another matter).



Ydnam96 - Oct 9, 2005 4:36 am (#657 of 1030)

Muggle Doctor, you are quite correct...and Luna is in Ravenclaw. So we know she has the smarts. I will be interested to see her marks as well.



Honour - Oct 16, 2005 4:00 am (#658 of 1030)

I have been wondering, when Luna told Harry about how the others play tricks on her by taking her things (a situation I find quite sad), that she isn't really bothered because her things are returned by the end of the school year, I wonder if the house elves return her things for her? I hope so, it would be nice to think this very lonely soul is being watched over ...



Muggle Doctor - Oct 16, 2005 2:22 pm (#659 of 1030)

Or maybe she has One True Friend somewhere in the school who hunts them down for her without saying anything (Ginny? We know that although she's down to earth she has no problems hanging out with spaced-out Luna). Maybe the people who pinch them get "the guilts" and return them (shades of Malory Towers, where Mary-Lou was so defenceless that nobody felt it fair to pick on her). Or maybe it's one of those bizarre things associated with a bizarre person that JKR wants us to marvel at and never really have explained.

But I like the house-elf idea. And it might not just be the house-elves doing the watching either. I can imagine Dumbledore (or maybe Ravenclaw's house head - who is it, Flitwick?) tapping a house-elf or two on the shoulder and saying "I think it's about time Miss Lovegood's things were returned to her. Dobby, would you attend to it please?"



Liz Mann - Dec 18, 2005 7:00 am (#660 of 1030)

This has probably been suggested before, but I only just thought of it.

I've often wondered why J.K. decided to bring Luna in to the story, why she decided to give Harry yet another friend, and so late in the day. There must be a reason for it. I mean, if she just liked the idea of Luna and wanted her to be a friend of Harry's, why didn't she have him meet her ages ago?

Now, there is a possibility that the last Horcrux is something belonging to Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. Well, Luna is in Ravenclaw. Decendent, perhaps? Has her family had something stolen from them? A relative been killed by Voldemort himself?



Soul Search - Dec 18, 2005 7:13 am (#661 of 1030)

Could it even be that Luna's mother was killed because she tried to do something with the Ravenclaw object that was Voldemort's Horcrux?



Ydnam96 - Dec 18, 2005 9:37 am (#662 of 1030)

Hmmm...I think it was more because Harry needed someone to identify with after Sirius' death. Luna provided the element he was missing in his current friendships. She takes everything as it comes, is calm, and yet she is very deep, even if she is a bit "off". Harry needed someone who he could connect with and she was the perfect fit for that. Plus, she has added a bit of humor and I think she fits well within JK's diversity theme: accepting people, all kinds of people, not based on how they look or act but because of who they are. Luna is loyal, smart, but smart in a non-Hermione way, she is matter of fact, speaks the truth as she sees it. She also provided the perfect opportunity for Harry to share his "true" story with the Wizarding World.

I think that there is a lot to her character. Whether or not she is connected to a horcrux.



Liz Mann - Dec 18, 2005 11:11 am (#663 of 1030)

Yes, but she still could have been introduced a lot sooner if that was J.K.'s reason. I mean, she wasn't even mentioned, except that her family lives near Ron's.

Hey, that's another thing. There might be a higher reason for that too. Maybe Harry will see her while he's at Bill and Fleur's wedding. She might even come to it. Then maybe we'll meet her dad and if she does hold the key to the final Horcrux, the first of the foreshadowing of that can be put in place. She might even be wearing it.

"Hey, Luna. That's a nice bracelet."

(Dreamily) "Yes, it is, isn't it? It's a thousand year old family heirloom."



Eric Bailey - Dec 18, 2005 12:22 pm (#664 of 1030)

JKR tends to introduce characters where it's convenient. Look at how quickly the various Black family members became important. Introducing Luna early, before she got involved with Harry, would have left people asking "Who is this girl" for several books.

"The Ravenclaws will have their day", according to JKR, in the final book. Luna's the most Ravenclawish of the Ravenclaws we've met, the one who most fits the House that produces the Da Vincis of the Wizarding world (Leonardo being rather unusual and nonconformist, himself). Hermione may be Practical Knowledge Girl, but Luna's the one who's more about ancient mystery and wisdom, which is usually key to the Hero's Journey. Within the Hero's Journey structure, Luna fits the Goddess archtype. From [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"The Road of Trials leads to an encounter with the Queen of the World – the ‘Meeting with the Goddess.’ The goddess figure is representative of the Earth Mother or source of life. She may be approachable, as the hero’s mother, sister, beloved, or She may be seemingly larger than life. She is encompassing beauty, unrevealed mystery, and unification of good and evil.

"In myth, Woman is the totality of what can be known. As the hero is initiated into life, the goddess becomes transfigured through his understanding. Alas, those with inferior eyes cannot see her magnificence – they may even perceive her as ugly. While the goddess can never be greater than the hero, she always promises more than he can comprehend. The hero can take her as she is and thus be the king of her created world. Through the goddess, the hero attains mastery over life itself. His trials have prepared him to recognize the richness of life that She offers."

Sounds like our girl, doesn't it?



MickeyCee3948 - Jan 9, 2006 8:27 am (#665 of 1030)

I don't believe the Dark Lord would have put a part of his soul in something that he did not have possession of. Everything that has served as a horcrux that we know of was something that he stole or possesses. The locket may have been in #12 but it was still there because Black couldn't destroy it before he was killed. I believe it will be Luna's knowledge of the Horcrux that she will be able to provide to the rest of the gang.

Mickey

Eric Bailey - I take it you just got through reading the Da Vinci Code.



haymoni - Jan 19, 2006 11:49 am (#666 of 1030)

I agree that Luna's late introduction means something more for her.

I'm just not seeing the connection to Harry if he isn't going to be at Hogwarts.

The suggested wedding scenario is good. I'm sure Daddy Lovegood would adore another article with The Chosen One. Perhaps Harry will recognize the value in the unique way the Lovegoods think.

Maybe the combination of the tiara that Fleur wears and seeing the Lovegoods will lead Harry back to the ROR and the tiara that is there.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 7, 2006 1:44 pm (#667 of 1030)

Oh, I love Luna. She's my favorite female character. I have teenagers, so I really appreciate a teenager who does not care what other people think of them. That's a rare gift. I was kind of disappointed that she wasn't in HbP more, but I think we will see her again. Maybe she's got something to offer in the way of information about the Ravenclaw horcrux.

I think it's wonderful that with all of that talk of Inter-house unity in OotP, that Luna was the one who got into Harry's inner circle.



João Paulo Costa - Feb 15, 2006 6:03 am (#668 of 1030)

there is another way that Luna conects with Harry: she can see Thestrals. Of course, this leads to the better deeper connection that Harry and Luna have concerning the death of loved ones, as mentioned above.

I was a little bit disapointed by the fact that Luna only appears briefly in HBP - even her presence in the final battle is somehow diminuished.

By the way, I do not precieve Luna as the most "Ravenclwish". I would see them as persons whose first trait would be not only intelligence, but to be aware of that intelingence, and know how to use it, as a deep trait of the person's personality. Luna is much more detached and airy, much less self-absorved.

I must say that I would very much like to see Luna survive the series whole, and that we could see how she will develop as an adult.



Liz Mann - Feb 16, 2006 11:58 am (#669 of 1030)

I agree, Joao. I too hope that she survives. I have a feeling that she will (but I don't want to jinx it ).



The One - Feb 24, 2006 6:27 am (#670 of 1030)

I was always one of those who was disapointed by Luna being so insignificant in HBP. She seemed to represent an alternative outlook, and looked very much like she could become important.

In HBP, nothing.

But, HBP was very much about Harry, Dumbledore, Draco and Snape. Other central characters, like Ron and Hermione, was very much reduced to background noise. So there is still possible that with Dumbledore dead the other characters will return. I have hope for Luna!



Liz Mann - Feb 26, 2006 1:05 pm (#671 of 1030)

Luna was in there. She went to Slughorn's party with Harry, and she clearly demonstrated her alternative outlook there.



The One - Feb 26, 2006 2:13 pm (#672 of 1030)

I know, but mostly as comic relief. I did expect her to play a greater role.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 26, 2006 4:58 pm (#673 of 1030)

I expected her to play a greater role as well. I want to know more about the veil, the department of mysteries, and how her mother died, as I think it could be related to the Ravenclaw horcrux.

The only good thing about the party is it dispelled the notion some fans had that Luna was too ugly, weird, freaky, etc. for Harry to want to be seen with. There was a lot of Luna-hate in some quarters which I could never understand, since the girl has never had a nasty word to say about anyone, and had been nothing if not helpful.



Liz Mann - Feb 27, 2006 4:00 pm (#674 of 1030)

The thing about J.K. is that she'll introduce a character and have them very central in one book, then in the next they'll hardly come into it at all, and then in the next one suddenly they're crucially important to the plot, e.g. Sirius. Ginny also had a similar thing happen, where she was very important to book two and then played hardly a part in three and four before coming back into the spotlight more in five. So Luna will probably have her day in book seven.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 27, 2006 7:04 pm (#675 of 1030)

Didn't Jo say someplace that Book Seven would be Ravenclaw's book? I think she did but I don't know where and I can't go hunting right now. I agree though, that no matter what, Luna has to come back stronger in book seven than in book six. Neville, too, but that's for another thread. Luna is just too much of a good mystery to drop. At least I hope not.



haymoni - Feb 28, 2006 5:49 am (#676 of 1030)

I seem to recall her saying that Ravenclaw will have their day.



ex-FAHgeek - Feb 28, 2006 11:35 am (#677 of 1030)

Of course, that could have simply been a reference to Luna's (and perhaps Cho's) large role in OotP. I'm beginning to wonder more and more (for other characters as well) how many of the things we all consider unfinished, "on their way to greater importance," or set-ups for future scenes would JKR consider to be finished deals.



Die Zimtzicke - Mar 1, 2006 12:33 pm (#678 of 1030)

No, whatever she said, I know it was about the time Half Blood Prince came out, but I can't find the exact quote. I'm a computer illiterate old lady, though.



Chemyst - Aug 21, 2006 3:44 pm (#679 of 1030)

So, Die Zimtzicke asked to bring this thread back to life? Then...

Jo's remarks earlier this summer mentioned one character who was "spared" and lives to the end of Book 7 even though he or she had not survived in the original ending.
At the end of OooP, when Luna is talking to Harry about death, she shares her strong belief that she will see her mother again someday.

Throughout HBP, Luna seemed to be mentioned just enough that she could have made a good 'victim' in the final story. She had again proved her faithfulness by checking the DA coin and was accepted by the trio just as she is.

Do any of you think that Jo's meeting with Evanna Lynch after she was cast as film-Luna would have any impact on saving the Luna character?



Ydnam96 - Aug 21, 2006 6:15 pm (#680 of 1030)

I don't know that meeting the actor for a character has much to do with whether they die in the books or not (at least I hope not).

My friend and I were talking about the end of book 6 and we both agreed that Luna is going to play a more prominent role in book 7. I tend to agree that all of the kids that were in the ministry are going to continue to play important roles in helping Harry in his final "quest". It was the same group in the ministry that fought the Death Eaters in the end of 6...

Luna adds a dimension of mystery to the group. We never really know what her motivation is or what conclusions she'll come to in any given situation. She may be able to help Harry identify Horcruxes or possibly be able to identify the "traces of magic" in a place (such as DD did). Who knows? I think that Luna has a lot of potential.



haymoni - Aug 22, 2006 7:09 am (#681 of 1030)

I still think that Luna will be the vehicle whereby "Ravenclaw will have it's day".



The One - Aug 22, 2006 7:21 am (#682 of 1030)

I feel that a character named "Lovegood" must be important in a story where Lo0ve is the key.

She did represent an alternate outlook in OotP.

In HBP she is mostly comic reliefe, but she also represnts the outcasts in socity. ("Almost like having friends") THe trio shows greater acceptance of her. (At least Ron and Harry does. It is hard to see that Hermione has comme any closer to accepting her since she had to concentrate to be nice to her at the end of HBP. On the other hand, she is never directly hostile towards Luna, more indifferent. )

I think the Luna character was not very important to HBP, but was kept in our view because she will be important in book 7 in some way.



Steve Newton - Aug 22, 2006 7:25 am (#683 of 1030)
Edited Aug 22, 2006 8:44 am

Luna is one of Harry's core group. She has experience fighting DEs at teh MOM and at Hogwarts. She is cool and effective under fire. She doesn't rattle easily. She is loyal. She will certainly play an important part in the final book.

As The One pointed out she is a loner, an outcast if you like. Harry seems to be collecting these sort of people. Lupin the outcast werewolf, Grawp the outcast giant, Witherwings the outcast hippogriff, Firenze the outcast centaur, Dobby the outcast house elf. I may have missed a couple.

Why? Can't say.



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 22, 2006 1:00 pm (#684 of 1030)

Luna is the first person from another house to truly crack Harry's inner circle. I still think she has something to do with that inter-house unity we heard about.

I agree she might be the reason Ravenclaw has its day, especially if her mother's death had something to do with a horcrux, or the fact that she is in Ravenclaw helps find that hourcrux.

I don't think she will die, although I concede it's possible. If Jo says the actress is perfect, you have to wonder what she is perfect for. Is it her looks? Her voice? Or the fact that Jo thinks she will be able to do what Jo is going to have the character do.



Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 22, 2006 6:26 pm (#685 of 1030)

I think Jo enjoys the movies but I don't think she allows them to change the books.

I do hope Luna survives. I love her character. She has proven her worth time and time again. LPO



Laura W - Aug 23, 2006 2:38 am (#686 of 1030)
Edited Aug 23, 2006 3:41 am

"THe trio shows greater acceptance of her. (At least Ron and Harry does. It is hard to see that Hermione has comme any closer to accepting her since she had to concentrate to be nice to her at the end of HBP. On the other hand, she is never directly hostile towards Luna, more indifferent.)"



To me, Luna has always personified the exact opposite of Hermoine. With Hermoine representing fact and reason, and Luna representing pure faith; both important to a well-rounded psyche. It plays itself out around The Quibbler and what is printed in it. When Hermoine first meets Luna she makes a disparaging remark about the magazine ("The Quibbler's rubbish, everybody knows that."), at which point Luna firmly informs her that her father is the editor.

However, The One, I do see a change in Hermoine's attitude towards Luna after The Quibbler agreed to print the truth about what Harry saw and experienced in the graveyard and after the battle at the MOM (where Luna did herself proud). I give you, from OoP, Chapter 38, Luna talking about the article being reprinted in the Daily Prophet:

"Daddy sold it to them. He got a very good price for it, too, so we're going to go on an expidition to Sweden this summer to see if we can catch a Crumple-Horned Snorkack."

"Hermoine seemed to struggle with herself for a moment, then said, 'That sounds lovely.' "

That really is a big concession for someone like Hermoine to make! Certainly not one she would make for Trelawny or many others she felt talked "rubbish." I think Jo is showing us that - to some extent at least - Ron, Harry, and Hermoine are starting to see Luna in a different light and to appreciate her.

Does that make sense?

Laura



Soul Search - Aug 23, 2006 6:51 am (#687 of 1030)
Edited Aug 23, 2006 7:58 am

I was disappointed with HBP for not bringing up a Crumple-Horned Snorkack. I thought, at least, Luna should mention to Hermione that they saw one. Maybe some nice pictures in the Quibbler. Even better, a pet Crumple-Horned Snorkack roaming arouund the Lovegood back yard. That would have put Hermione in her place.

I have liked the play between Luna and Hermione, but have felt that Luna should get to take Hermione down a peg or two more often.

Hermione has a "better than thou" attitude towards Luna that needs some course correction.



The One - Aug 23, 2006 7:01 am (#688 of 1030)

I love Hermione. She is my favourite character in the series, but still she is a bit narrow-minded at times.

She knows that Luna deserves that she treats her well, but still Luna's mindset is so foreign to her that she has some problems accepting her fully.

I think tha while Hermione has gone arthe on the road to accept Luna for who she is than most of the students at Hogwarts, both Harry and Ron has come farther on that path than she has.

My feeling after Ron left the Hospital is that he is the one that has come the furthest, suddenly he has even passed Harry in that respect, but that is just my feeling. That one will be very hard to "prove" from canon.

But, Luna only speak to Harry a few times during the HBP. He is closer to Harry than most students at Hogwarts outside of Gryffindor, but "inner circle" is a strech. But somehow I got a feeling that after book 7 "inner circle" is a term that may be applied. (If everyone is still alive, that is.)



Steve Newton - Aug 23, 2006 7:51 am (#689 of 1030)

Well, I view 'inner circle' and 'core group' as the same. It is made up of Harry and the people he has ridden to school with on the Hogwarts Express. It now includes Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny and Luna. I am uncertain if it includes Lupin. Anyway the six have all fought together in major battles of the second Voldemort war.



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 23, 2006 9:10 am (#690 of 1030)
Edited Aug 23, 2006 10:11 am

Sorry, but even if it's not intentional, I think Jo does allow the movies to affect her. She wrote in HBP that Hermoine had hit Malfoy, didn't she? When she punched him the film, and only slapped him in the book. And since the actress who plays Hooch quit and left in such a huff, Hooch has not been a major character. You also have her using "Rupert" when Ron's name is said wrong. If that's not throwing a bone to the film fans nothing is. And Romilda Vane is an anagram of "I'm a Dan lover" which is funny for a fan girl. I'm not talking major changes, just little things. Her movie radar may have pictured Evanna doing something Luna will have to do.

I'd love it if one of Luna's animals turned out to be real. If not a Snorkack, maybe a helio-whatever, or something else. They don't seem any weirder to me than some of the other animals that are real. Is a wrackspurt any farther a stretch than a bowtruckle?

If Jo thinks Evanna is the perfect Luna, however, I still think it's possible Luna is going to do somehting in the books that Jo thinks Evanna will be able to do well.

As for Luna and Hemrione, Jo has said Luna is the anti-Hermione. They are two sides of one coin as I see it. Harry needs Hermione's logic, but perhaps he also needs Luna's faith and serene demeanor. Luna does get Harry to think outside the box in a different way than the other Gryffindors. She's the one who came up with the idea to ride the thestrals, wasn't she?



Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 23, 2006 7:18 pm (#691 of 1030)

Luna also understands Harry in a way Hermione never can. It started with both of them seeing the thestrals. She understood the attraction of the veil. Luna was the one who helped Harry to feel again after Sirius death. I think it is interesting how Ginny and Harry both are kind to Luna when others are not.

I agree Steve, Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny and Luna are the core group. LPO



The One - Aug 24, 2006 7:09 am (#692 of 1030)

The reasnonI am a bit pressed to call Luna part of the core group is that Harry never seek out her company deliberatly. He is just friendly ti her when they happens to meet. (The same goes for Neville by the way.) He never asked Luna and Neville for help in the final HBP battle, he summuned the DA and hose two was the only that responded.

By the end of HBP Harry's inner circle is as far as I see it the trio, Ginny and possibly te other Weaslyes and possibly also Lupin.

With respect to Harry's struggle the core group is still just the trio.

Neville and Luna is more or less hang-arounds. After the end of OotP I did see a potential that Harry's very small, closed core group would be expanded, but in my eyes that did not happen. I was a bit suprised by how unimportant both Neville and Luna was in the HBP

But this is a question of perception and definitions. I do not expect everyone to see this sthe same way.



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 24, 2006 7:56 am (#693 of 1030)

Well, to be fair sometimes characters are imoortant in one book, then no so much in antoher book and then come back.

I definitely think Luna and Neville are in the core group, and what convinces me they may come back stronger than ever is Harry's feeling of affection for them when he sees them at Dumbledore's funeral. Affection is a strong word for Harry to use.



Steve Newton - Aug 24, 2006 9:12 am (#694 of 1030)

Neville and Luna have twice risked their lives in he second war. Luna was with Hermione when she had her encounter with Snape. They responded to the call for the OOTP. (I still am not 100% convinced that Neville is not The One.) Harry takes Luna to a Christmas party. Neville quietly was involved in many activities in the earlier books. I think that they will be with Harry until the end. If they survive.



haymoni - Aug 24, 2006 9:21 am (#695 of 1030)

I think Jo's comments about Harry wanting Cho to see him with cooler people and then snapping back at Romilda when she said that he didn't have to sit with "them", shows not only Harry's maturity, but their importance to him.

Harry knows who he can count on.



Robert Dierken - Aug 5, 2006 5:32 pm (#696 of 1030)

I think that Harry should read the notebook containing the results of Luna's mother's experiments.



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 6, 2006 9:15 am (#697 of 1030)

I think it would be great if Luna's mother's death involved the Ravenclaw horcurx. If it was brought to the DoM, it might have been because someone suspected there was a curse on the object. If she didn't know what it was and tried to take it off and got killed doing so, that could mean one horcrux is down and less to find. Of course it's too bad that day happened to be "take you daughter to work" day, but it would still make things easier for Harry.

Or maybe some crackpot (supposedly!) story Luna's dad has run about horcruxes turns out to be real. That would be cool, too.



journeymom - Aug 6, 2006 1:28 pm (#698 of 1030)

Die Zimtzicke, I love that idea. That Luna's mom died destroying a horcrux (accidentally or otherwise) is a neat, tidy idea.



journeymom - Aug 6, 2006 6:44 pm (#699 of 1030)

I should have said 'knowingly or otherwise' rather than 'accidentally or otherwise' above.



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 11, 2006 6:12 am (#700 of 1030)
Edited Sep 11, 2006 7:13 am

Someone wrote a letter than was in the Chicago papers on Sunday. The woman was complaining that her daughter didn't like Luna being Irish for the film and asking why they didn't audition in the states. I know Jo requested an all British cast, if that's what her problem was. If it's the fact that she's Irish, could Luna be Irish? I am not sure if Jo will help out by putting in the books that Luna is Irish. I know she lives near the Weasleys, so you'd expect her to be English, but couldn't she have moved there from Ireland at some point, or could one of her parents have been Irish? (Dan Radcliffe is half-Irish and I've never seen this come up with him.) I think it's no big deal that Luna is Irish, or if that ever even is explained away in book seven.


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haymoni - Aug 11, 2006 6:26 am (#701 of 1030)

I saw that in one of those gossip Q & A things too - I thought it was a Dad that wrote in, but sometimes I wonder if they just make those things up. Obviously his daughter isn't that big a fan or she would have realized that NONE of the actors are American.

Sheesh! There are other people in the world!!



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 11, 2006 6:28 am (#702 of 1030)

Maybe it was a dad. It wasn't my paper I was reading. I was reading it while I was waiting to do something else. If I was wrong, I apologize. I still wonder though if any mention of Luna's background will show up in book seven. I'd like that.



haymoni - Aug 11, 2006 6:36 am (#703 of 1030)

I'd really like to know more about Luna's mother. It seems odd that she was doing so much experimenting without running into trouble with the MOM.

And you would have thought that we'd learn SOMETHING about the quest to find the Crumpled-Horn Thing!



painting sheila - Aug 11, 2006 7:38 am (#704 of 1030)

Maybe Luna's parents are part of the Order. Everything they discuss with Luna is in code so she will not know what they do for a living and will not be in danger maor than she already is. Crumple Horm thingey could be code for one of the DE's or for LV himself - or a horcrux!

Maybe the reason Luna reads the Quibbler upside down is that there IS hidden messages in there. She has seen others that associaite with her parents look at it upside down and since she doesn't know what she is looking for - she never finds the Order clues or messages.



haymoni - Aug 11, 2006 7:46 am (#705 of 1030)

I always thought there was something to her reading the Quibbler upside down, but I was shot down here on the Forum because folks said she was just checking her answers to the quiz.

I never got that - she was actually reading it, not flipping it back & forth. It would be kind of cool if there was something secret there. Maybe the secret is just for Luna - a way for her dad to communicate with her.



Choices - Aug 11, 2006 8:35 am (#706 of 1030)

Sheila - "Maybe Luna's parents are part of the Order."

Luna's mother is dead (a spell gone horribly wrong killed her)and her father publishes the Quibbler. If he were an Order member I think we would have heard about it by now.



painting sheila - Aug 11, 2006 8:38 am (#707 of 1030)

I know Luna's mother is dead and killed by a spell gone horribly wrong - but what spell and who cast it?

Could the Quibbler be a "cover" for her dad?

(I think I have watched to many Law and Order - CSI where ever - SVU Special Unit things!)



darien - Aug 12, 2006 12:09 pm (#708 of 1030)
Edited Sep 12, 2006 1:10 pm

What else do we know from Lunas mum? A person who married the Editor of the Quibbler is worth meeting or knowing.



legolas returns - Aug 12, 2006 12:12 pm (#709 of 1030)

She could have been really sensible and down to earth for all we know. Somehow I doubt it though. In my minds eye I see her mum as as a hippy flower child of the 60s.



Soul Search - Aug 12, 2006 2:32 pm (#710 of 1030)

It seems so obvious, but I can't recall any note of it.

JKR tends to come up with character names that reflect the character's nature. "Lupin," the werewolf, is an example.

We have Luna Lovegood. So, Luna is "good love?" Crazy love? Luna loves? Luna is loved? Something like that. Anyway, Luna is associated with "love."

We have a lot of canon that Harry has "love" and that "love" will defeat Voldemort.

So, does this mean Luna will be involved in Voldemort's defeat?



haymoni - Aug 13, 2006 4:42 am (#711 of 1030)

Luna may give him a clue as to how to defeat him. Her talk about hearing the voices behind the veil goes hand in hand with those whom we love never leave us and help will be given to those who ask for it.

Or...maybe a spell will bounce off one of her radish earrings or the butterbeer cap necklace.



legolas returns - Aug 13, 2006 12:46 pm (#712 of 1030)

LOL



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 13, 2006 1:59 pm (#713 of 1030)

I heard a lovely theory that she keeps the butterbeer necklace because it was one of the last things nine year old Luna made either with or for her mother, before Mrs. Lovegood died.



legolas returns - Aug 13, 2006 2:02 pm (#714 of 1030)

Awh bless that is such a sweet theory.



freckle - Aug 15, 2006 4:46 am (#715 of 1030)

Hey, does anyone else think that Luna might end up as the teacher that JKR talks about? Can you imagine her classes...!



haymoni - Aug 15, 2006 6:07 am (#716 of 1030)

Wow!

I never thought of Luna because that quote about there being a teacher among Harry's friends came out before Book 5.

I always thought "the one we thought" would be Hermione and the actual teacher would be Neville.



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 21, 2006 1:26 pm (#717 of 1030)

Luna seems to be a bit polarizing in the fandom. Not here so much, but definitely on other boards. I adore her. She's never been anything but helpful to Harry, and she doesn't care what other people think of her, a remarkable trait in a teen.

But I've seen people calling her a freak in ways that are almost Dursley-ish. Can anyone here comment on this? What is it about Luna that gives people such strong opinions one way or another?



juliebug - Aug 21, 2006 1:38 pm (#718 of 1030)
Edited Sep 21, 2006 2:39 pm

I'm a little ashamed to admit this, because I really like her now, but my intial reaction to Luna was dislike. I don't know if you are familiar with The Simpsons (the cartoon, not OJ's family) but they did an episode once where the cartoon within the cartoon, The Itchy and Scratchy Show brought on a new character. This character was called Poochie and was purposely a very stupid extraneous character poking fun at other shows that bring their own stupid extraneous characters on from time to time. At first, Luna, to me, seemed very Poochie-ish. I have come to see the error in my ways and now love her. She great comic relief and a perfect foil to Hermione, who although a great character herself, occasionally needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

I can't speak for anyone else, but that's I feel on the subject.



journeymom - Aug 21, 2006 2:56 pm (#719 of 1030)

Luna got on my nerves a bit at first but I like her very much. But I especially like how Harry treats her, now. I didn't know there were people who passionately dislike her. Seems kind of immature.



Choices - Aug 21, 2006 4:11 pm (#720 of 1030)

I also had mixed feelings about Luna at first. She seemed like such a "space cadet", but now I really like her and I would just love to give her a big hug and offer to be her friend.



Eponine - Aug 21, 2006 4:45 pm (#721 of 1030)

I adore Luna, and I adore her exactly as she's written - a spacey, slightly mad conspiracy theorist who believes in completely bizarre things. She's perfect with her bulging eyes and her straggly hair, and I'm glad that Harry and his friends are accepting her more. I think she's a fabulous character, and everyone I know feels the same way about her.



Mediwitch - Aug 21, 2006 5:01 pm (#722 of 1030)

Personally, I love Luna. I think she's a hoot, and I admire her straightforward approach...very unusual in a teenager! But her eccentricities might be the reason some people are not such fans. People who are "different" have always had a hard time fitting in, and Luna is definitely marching to the beat of her own drummer. (Go Luna!)



LooneyLuna - Aug 21, 2006 5:47 pm (#723 of 1030)

I loved Luna from the getgo - she gave me my username here!

I love that she is not afraid to speak her mind and the truth as she sees it. Even though that has obviously cost her friends.



haymoni - Aug 22, 2006 6:11 am (#724 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2006 7:12 am

I think as adults, we may be more understanding and appreciative - perhaps even envious - of Luna.

I don't know how I would feel about her if I were 14 or 15. I think at that age, you don't really want to stick out that much.

I love that Luna does her own thing - I'm still not sure if she is bothered by what the other kids say/do or not, though.



Soul Search - Aug 22, 2006 6:36 am (#725 of 1030)

I would like to meet the father that raised Luna, and made her what she is. Perhaps, just once, though.



haymoni - Aug 22, 2006 7:28 am (#726 of 1030)

Yes - he might be a little scary!!



Chemyst - Aug 22, 2006 9:09 am (#727 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2006 10:11 am

I envision Mr. Lovegood as having a personality a lot like Dr. Emmett Brown of the Back to the Future movies, only with interests in publishing editorials instead of inventing gadgets.

What is it about Luna that gives people such strong opinions one way or another? ~ Die Zimtzicke

I think it is because she is such a "mirror" character; we see a bit of ourselves in her and we like either it or we don't.



Choices - Aug 22, 2006 11:01 am (#728 of 1030)

I like that Chemyst - I was not a "space cadet", but I definitely would have worn the butterbeer cap necklace and the radish earrings. LOL I can relate to Luna.



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 22, 2006 12:11 pm (#729 of 1030)

Well, even if she didn't amuse me, I would like her, because she's been nothing if not helpful to Harry. In spite of the fact that she amuses me, I do not consider her comic relief. Too much of what happens to/around/because of her does not seem funny to me. I think there's a serious side to her.



Steve Newton - Aug 22, 2006 12:42 pm (#730 of 1030)

She is definitely a space cadet but, I think, surprisingly focused. In OOTP throughout the entire time that the group is captive she seems to be focused on the problem of getting to London. A little thing like being a captive doesn't seem to bother her. In the Forest she is calmly waiting for the Thestrals while the rest are debating irrelevant issues.



haymoni - Aug 22, 2006 12:47 pm (#731 of 1030)

I'll bet my wand arm that if we were in school with Luna, we would have avoided her like the plague.

I'd like to think that I would have been willing to be friends with her, but I'm pretty sure I was way too insecure to be seen with someone like her.

As an adult, I can value and appreciate her loyalty and her truthfulness.

And anyone that can put Hermione in her place every once in awhile is A-OK in my book!



juliebug - Aug 22, 2006 1:00 pm (#732 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2006 2:01 pm

I agree that Luna's got a serious side. In fact, she's really serious all the time. It's just that others sometimes find her funny. In my opinion, she's a great straight man. She bulldozes through Hermione's logical trains of thought with her very outside the box way of thinking. She commentates quidditch like no one else. She stirs up anger in plenty of other people around her, but generally keeps her cool, unfazed demeanor. She never tries to be funny, but to me she just is.



Soul Search - Aug 22, 2006 2:36 pm (#733 of 1030)

I posted this a while back, but thought you all might enjoy it.

I think I may have figured Luna out, at least a bit.

I'm not saying she isn't a bit flakey, but her scenes in HBP struck me a little differently than those in OotP. Might take a bit of explaining, though.

I got my inspiration from the scene on the Hogwart's Express in "Snape Victorious" where Luna asks "Wrackspurt got you?" Harry was pondering the prophecy, Neville, and his own fate, and feeling, and looking, a bit depressed.

Luna invented the Wrackspurt as a joke, to cheer Harry up. EXACTLY what Harry needed to bring him out of his funk.

Her RotFang conspiracy at Slughorn's party fits the "joke" concept as well. In fact, if you go back and review, even OotP, most of Luna's outrageous suggestions fit the discusson context as a joke. Rethink Nargles in the mistletoe, Crumple Horn Snorkack (focus on vacation with dad), just about all her pronouncements. And, Luna enjoys poking up-tight Hermione; thinks she should lighten up a bit.

So far, no one has caught on, though. But, someone will. Hermione would never figure this out, but Harry might. Maybe Ginny has already figured out Luna; she says "Luna's all right" when we first meet her.

I wonder if the whole Quibbler is really meant as a form of humor magazine, rather than a platform for the off-beat and weird. Sort of "Mad" for the wizarding world.

This change of view of Luna has also revised my opinion of her future storyline. Luna will have a continuing role. She and Neville are a part of Harry's team and each bring something that others don't.

Previous posts point out Luna's rather unique character, especially a "calmness" that allows her to focus on the problem at hand better than anyone else. Her frankness and honest commentary are unique, and rather valuable.

Luna's role will be quite significant.



legolas returns - Aug 22, 2006 3:21 pm (#734 of 1030)
Edited Sep 22, 2006 4:24 pm

Soul search-How do you view the Gurdyroot incident? I am genuinely interested. Its in the first few pages of chap 20. She pulls a lot of stuff out of her bag and Ron complements her on her commentary. She thinks he is laughing at her. Do you think she uses her individuality as a defence mechanism?

I dont know why but she sort of reminds me a tiny tiny bit of Dumbledore. For example he is seen as a little eccentric and comes out with the Nitwit, oddment, blubber and tweak comment in book 1. He uses humor-"we must not sink beneath our anguish"-or something to that effect in relation to the Minister for Magic. He is prepared to trust when others dont and give people a second chance. It just seems that Luna might be further out there with the things she comes out with but at the same time competent at magic. She manages to come through the Ministry of Magic unscathed.



Choices - Aug 22, 2006 4:34 pm (#735 of 1030)

I called Luna a "space cadet", but I certainly did not mean that Luna is stupid. I think she is very intelligent, in an oddball sort of way. I hate to disagree with you, Soul Search, but I think Luna genuinely believes in all the crazy sounding things she comes up with - Wrackspurt, Rotfang and Gurdyroot included. There are too many of them to be jokes. These are serious things to her.



Meoshimo - Aug 22, 2006 5:40 pm (#736 of 1030)

But I've seen people calling her a freak in ways that are almost Dursley-ish. Can anyone here comment on this? What is it about Luna that gives people such strong opinions one way or another? -Die Zimtzicke, Sep 21, 2006 2:26 pm (#717 of 735)

I think that most people find her extremely unusual. And teenagers, for reasons I've never understood, can sometimes turn on those who don't fit into the 'norm'.

I think I would have been friends with Luna if I were at school with her (I might have even asked her out!). She reminds me of several of my favorite people in my life.



Mediwitch - Aug 22, 2006 6:59 pm (#737 of 1030)

I think Luna actually believes the stuff she says. There was a point (I'd have to look it up as I don't remember the details) where Luna and Hermione got into an argument over something Luna believed in. Maybe it was the heliopaths...



Chemyst - Aug 22, 2006 8:16 pm (#738 of 1030)

I think Luna believes too, and I would relish seeing her proved right about at least one of these oddities in book 7.

This wasn't an argument, but I appreciated the poignancy this little scene in the hospital wing after the battle at the MoM. Luna is telling how her dad made so much money from the reprint of Harry's interview that she and her dad plan to spend summer on an expedition to Sweden looking for the Crumple-Horned Snorkack. "Hermione seemed to struggle with herself for a moment, and then said, 'That sounds lovely.'"



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 23, 2006 9:11 am (#739 of 1030)

Luna's animals do not bother me. They don't seem any weirder than soem of the stuff we have actually seen in the wizarding world. Honestly, is a heliopath that much farther out than a bowtruckle? I'd love to have one of Luna's animals turn out to be as real as say, a puffskein.

That would really make people wonder about what she says.

My favorite Luna line is when Harry is going all crazy and she just tells him he's being rude. She's right, and he can't argue with here, because you can't argue with her. She doesn't take the bait. They need someone who isn't a hothead in that group.



Choices - Aug 23, 2006 10:24 am (#740 of 1030)

I had an interesting thought about Luna. Over on the Lupin thread we are discussing the possibility that Lupin may turn out to be a traitor in book 7. Wouldn't it be ironic if Luna is the one who discovers it or gives others a clue that reveals it (if Lupin is a traitor and I'm not convinced he is - just that it's a possiblity) - after all, it is the moon that Lupin fears - Luna = moon.



juliebug - Aug 23, 2006 10:26 am (#741 of 1030)

I can't see Lupin as a traitor either, but that is an interesting thought.



haymoni - Aug 23, 2006 11:56 am (#742 of 1030)

Maybe Luna will find a way to make the Wolfsbane Potion taste better.



journeymom - Aug 23, 2006 4:02 pm (#743 of 1030)

I can see that happening. She is a Ravenclaw, after all.



Eric Bailey - Aug 29, 2006 11:06 am (#744 of 1030)
Edited Sep 29, 2006 12:07 pm

Names mean something in the magical world, as we know. Luna is the name of the Roman Goddess of the Moon. Lovegood speaks for itself.

I could see her as the one who becomes a teacher, maybe even Headmistress of Hogwarts, someday. Remember, Harry's first impression of Dumbledore was that he was mad, too. Luna combines Dumbledore's brilliance, loving faith, and eccentricity with Phineas Nigellus's blunt honesty, the willingness to, as JKR put it, "speak uncomfortable truths."

I think Luna is heavily inspired by, perhaps a tribute to, a literary classic. Notice Luna's speech patterns, that specific way she talks, and look at this scene of Lewis Carroll's...

"Down, down, down. Would the fall NEVER come to an end! `I wonder how many miles I've fallen by this time?' she said aloud. `I must be getting somewhere near the centre of the earth. Let me see: that would be four thousand miles down, I think--' (for, you see, Alice had learnt several things of this sort in her lessons in the schoolroom, and though this was not a VERY good opportunity for showing off her knowledge, as there was no one to listen to her, still it was good practice to say it over) `--yes, that's about the right distance--but then I wonder what Latitude or Longitude I've got to?' (Alice had no idea what Latitude was, or Longitude either, but thought they were nice grand words to say.)

"Presently she began again. `I wonder if I shall fall right THROUGH the earth! How funny it'll seem to come out among the people that walk with their heads downward! The Antipathies, I think--' (she was rather glad there WAS no one listening, this time, as it didn't sound at all the right word) `--but I shall have to ask them what the name of the country is, you know. Please, Ma'am, is this New Zealand or Australia?' (and she tried to curtsey as she spoke--fancy CURTSEYING as you're falling through the air! Do you think you could manage it?) `And what an ignorant little girl she'll think me for asking! No, it'll never do to ask: perhaps I shall see it written up somewhere.'

"Down, down, down. There was nothing else to do, so Alice soon began talking again. `Dinah'll miss me very much to-night, I should think!' (Dinah was the cat.) `I hope they'll remember her saucer of milk at tea-time. Dinah my dear! I wish you were down here with me! There are no mice in the air, I'm afraid, but you might catch a bat, and that's very like a mouse, you know. But do cats eat bats, I wonder?' And here Alice began to get rather sleepy, and went on saying to herself, in a dreamy sort of way, `Do cats eat bats? Do cats eat bats?' and sometimes, `Do bats eat cats?' for, you see, as she couldn't answer either question, it didn't much matter which way she put it. She felt that she was dozing off, and had just begun to dream that she was walking hand in hand with Dinah, and saying to her very earnestly, `Now, Dinah, tell me the truth: did you ever eat a bat?' when suddenly, thump! thump! down she came upon a heap of sticks and dry leaves, and the fall was over."

Is Luna "Alice in Hogwarts", older and wiser after her travels?

As for her role in the series, this is a Hero's Journey. Jo has, so far, followed the Hero's Journey steps, to the letter. For a look at the steps, see here...

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Notice, Harry even had his own Cerberus. What applies here, I think, is the Meeting with the Goddess. See the description given, and notice how the misconceptions fit, exactly, what those who have bashed Luna have said about her?

"The Road of Trials leads to an encounter with the Queen of the World – the ‘Meeting with the Goddess.’ The goddess figure is representative of the Earth Mother or source of life. She may be approachable, as the hero’s mother, sister, beloved, or She may be seemingly larger than life. She is encompassing beauty, unrevealed mystery, and unification of good and evil.

"In myth, Woman is the totality of what can be known. As the hero is initiated into life, the goddess becomes transfigured through his understanding. Alas, those with inferior eyes cannot see her magnificence – they may even perceive her as ugly. While the goddess can never be greater than the hero, she always promises more than he can comprehend. The hero can take her as she is and thus be the king of her created world. Through the goddess, the hero attains mastery over life itself. His trials have prepared him to recognize the richness of life that She offers."



Muggle Doctor - Oct 10, 2006 4:48 am (#745 of 1030)

I quite like Luna for her ethereal spaced-outedness, although it took me a while to get used to. She's focused, but on a completely different level, and she's the sort of girl I'd probably have gone out with if I'd gone to Hogwarts (rejected by most others; odd ideas and behaviours).

I also quite like the fact that her conspiracy theories - heliopaths, etc. - are things that she holds to irrevocably, but without any of the bitterness that stereotypically characterises conspiracy nuts. She's above all that.

I think she's very lonely. While I know this isn't a ship thread and Harry's perfect match seems to be Ginny, I find myself being quite touched by the moments of understanding she and Harry occasionally have, esp. at the end of OOTP. That's what had me seriously thinking she ought to be his eventual canon 'ship; probably because when I was that age, I idealized that sort of near-chaste 'tender, gentle, mutual understanding' type relationship that was as much about supportive embraces and holding hands as anything else. Conversely I loathed the 'passionate mouths-locked-together' stuff I used to see at parties, the male practitioners of which I wanted to kick in the head (and yes, I'm male).



juliebug - Oct 10, 2006 5:15 am (#746 of 1030)

I am not a male, but I also didn't care for all the crazy snog fests that seemed to be going on everywhere. I understand it what teens do and JKR is trying to realistically write teens, but I don't have to like it. I guess I spent too much time as a teacher breaking up that kind of stuff

I agree with you Muggle Doctor, the quiet moments of reflection between Harry and Luna were so much more satisfactory to me than any tonsil-hockey scenes, I guess I'm just geting old.



Meoshimo - Oct 10, 2006 6:45 am (#747 of 1030)
Edited Oct 10, 2006 7:46 am

I definitely would've asked Luna out if I were at Hogwarts. I think she would've been three years ahead of me, though. Her spaciness is endearing, and it's a good contrast to the fact-only Hermione. I like seeing two extremes battle like that.



Thom Matheson - Oct 10, 2006 7:08 am (#748 of 1030)

Tonsil hockey?



Choices - Oct 10, 2006 7:17 am (#749 of 1030)

Right on, Muggle Doc....I agree completely. Luna is one of a kind and I like her.



Die Zimtzicke - Oct 10, 2006 8:26 am (#750 of 1030)

It's just so remarkable that a teenager at Hogwarts should be secure enough in who they are at that age, not to care what other people think of them.

I keep thinking of the quote by author Ray Bradbury: "You have to know how to accept rejection and reject acceptance."

Luna proably does get lonely, but she continues on and does not let it make her bitter, and she is willing to go against the mainstream when she thinks it is right. Like when she told Harry he believed in him, when so many were against him.

She also seems to be able to get Harry, when he is totally self focused, to think about others. When Sirius died, he was wallowing in self pity and guilt and didn't want to talk to anyone, but then he found himself talking to and feeling empathy for Luna. That's got to be a good thing.


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juliebug - Oct 10, 2006 10:46 am (#751 of 1030)

What Thom? Never heard that bit of slang?



Thom Matheson - Oct 10, 2006 10:56 am (#752 of 1030)

I feel so old. I can see it on a survey. Tonsil hockey? Why yes. I enjoy all sports, especially baseball and golf.



Regan of Gong - Oct 10, 2006 7:41 pm (#753 of 1030)

"Conversely I loathed the 'passionate mouths-locked-together' stuff I used to see at parties, the male practitioners of which I wanted to kick in the head (and yes, I'm male)."

My sentiments exactly! You all know the blokes are in it only for the girl's looks...although I'm not sure many of the girls like that would complain...

I think everyone could learn something from Luna.

On a side note, the DA is currently my computer's background, and she looks more perfect every time I log on.



haymoni - Oct 30, 2006 11:54 am (#754 of 1030)
Edited by S.E. Jones Oct 30, 2006 1:20 pm

I could actually see Mr. Lovegood taking Luna out of Hogwarts.

Not for safety's sake, per se, but more of a "you can't trust the government, you can't trust institutions" kind of thing. He may think that he has more to offer her than standard wizarding education can.

She would be much more entertaining at school, which may be why JKR will leave her there, but if Harry doesn't go, how will we see her???



S.E. Jones - Oct 30, 2006 12:53 pm (#755 of 1030)

Hoymoni, that does raise another question, if Mr. Lovegood does group institutions together with the government, did he trust Hogwarts simply because of Dumbledore? As for how we'll see her if Harry doesn't return to Hogwarts, she lives near the Weasleys doesn't she? Maybe Ginny will invite her to the wedding?



Chemyst - Oct 30, 2006 1:26 pm (#756 of 1030)

I can see Mr. Lovegood thinking all the thoughts haymoni listed, but I also think– more as an impression than due to hard canon– that he allows her free spirit a lot of independence, and if she stays at Hogwarts, it will be her choice. I'd suppose that most of the students in her year still want to take their OWLs. Most war ends eventually and having passed the OWLs would be important in "civilian life."



haymoni - Oct 30, 2006 1:42 pm (#757 of 1030)

When Luna was younger, perhaps he was overwhelmed at raising a child alone. He could send her to Hogwarts and he knew she would be fed and protected.

Now that she is old enough to take care of herself, he may want her to stay close to home - she's all he has, but I definitely think that if Luna wants to go to Hogwarts, she'll be there.



Muggle Doctor - Nov 3, 2006 6:21 am (#758 of 1030)

Mr Lovegood and Luna strike me as being a lot like Prof. Theo Honey and his daughter in Neville Shute's No Highway, except that Mr Lovegood isn't completely incompetent in looking after the health and welfare of himself and his daughter (but might well be if he did not have magic!).



Laura W - Nov 4, 2006 2:03 am (#759 of 1030)

MD ... don't understand the reference because I have not read the book you cited. But I have always felt that Luna and her father had a wonderful relationship. The mother, too, when she was alive.

Luna is always defending her father's magazine and firmly believes everything that it "reports" (snort). I see this as genuine loyalty to and affection for the man who is doing his best to raise his daughter single-handedly. And, when he receives the reprint fee from the Daily Prophet for the Harry interview, Mr. Lovegood takes Luna on a trip to Sweden to look for Crumple-Horned Snorkacks. That really brought a lump to my throat.

Also, Luna speaks confidently about seeing her mother again. This was probably told to her by a loving father who was also a loving husband, proud of his extraordinary witch wife who died by way of a tragic accident.

Sorry for getting kind of mushy here, but in a series filled with so many dysfunctional, toxic family situations (Harry's, Sirius', Tom's, Snape's(?), Hagrid's), I have always considered the Lovegood father and daughter household as a whole, caring, healthy one. Or maybe I just need it to be. (shrug)

Wish we knew a lot more about the Lovegoods but with all Jo has to put in Book Seven, I can understand why she might consider this to be a very low priority.

Laura



TheSaint - Nov 7, 2006 1:52 pm (#760 of 1030)

I always thought thier relationship rather like the pair in 'Cricket on the Hearth' by Dickens.

'Dot is a friend to everyone, especially Bertha, a blind girl whose father, Caleb, is a poor toymaker for the Gruff and Tackleton company. To lift his daughter’s spirits, he lies to her, spinning fanciful tales involving luxurious wardrobes and bright, happy surroundings—nothing like the poor dwelling they live in (Dickens: a little cracked nutshell of a wooden house, which was, in truth, no better than a pimple on the prominent red-brick nose of Gruff and Tackleton.).'



Laura W - Nov 8, 2006 1:33 am (#761 of 1030)

Hi Saint. Wonderful to be talking to you again.

I don't think I agree with your comparison. Mr. Lovegood is the editor of a magazine. Admittedly, it is The Quibbler (smirk), but it's probably a pretty successful publication because people *love* those gossip rags which print all kinds of sensational made-up stuff (like Sirius Black really being rock star Stubby Boardman) along with a few genuine stories (like the interview with Harry).

I'm not saying the Lovegoods are rich by any means, or even well-off, but I do not think they are poor. Aside from the fact that Luna's dad is an editor, he only has one child - as far as we know - to provide for. Unlike the Weasleys for instance.

Laura



haymoni - Nov 8, 2006 6:26 am (#762 of 1030)

But nobody gets paid to publish in The Quibbler, so I don't know if there is a lot of money there.

I figured him as sort of a absent-minded professor type - so absorbed in his work, he probably forgets to eat.



TheSaint - Nov 8, 2006 7:13 am (#763 of 1030)

Hi Laura!

I was thinking more along the lines of the things they believe...sort of embellishing her world to make up for the shortage created by her mother's death. Would go right along with his job!



Die Zimtzicke - Nov 8, 2006 10:06 am (#764 of 1030)

I think Luna and her dad probably have a good relationship, but let's face it, when would they fight? They probably hung together when Mrs. Lovegood died, and two years later, Luna was off to Hogwarts, where she spends most of the year.

I wish I knew when Luna's birthday was. I think she's an Aquarian type. They are the individualists of the zodiac. Very independent and self-reliant, and they are known for forming strong friendships when they do make friends.

It would also fit with Harry's Leo. If Luna can help Harry with what he has to do, it would make sense that she is an Aquarian, because that's an air sign, and air lifts fire to new heights. The drama around fire signs usually appeals to the creative side of air signs.



S.E. Jones - Nov 8, 2006 10:17 am (#765 of 1030)

Die Zimtzicke --If Luna can help Harry with what he has to do, it would make sense that she is an Aquarian, because that's an air sign, and air lifts fire to new heights.--

That's an even more interesting idea given that Luna is a Ravenclaw and Harry a Gryffindor and JKR chose air and fire respectively to represent those houses.



Laura W - Nov 8, 2006 8:58 pm (#766 of 1030)

"But nobody gets paid to publish in The Quibbler, so I don't know if there is a lot of money there." (haymoni)

Without going into why I know this, the revenue from newspapers and magazines comes from advertising (first) and subscriptions (second). I am guessing that Quibbler has a lot of advertisers and subscribers. Rags like that do in the Muggle world; no reason to think it's any different in the WW.

And the fact that The Quibbler does not pay its content contributors - a big BOO to them for that! -, means that their expenditures would be down. Guess Mr. Lovegood thinks professional writers are House Elves. I won't give my opinion of his policy on that on a family-friendly forum such as this. (grumble, grumble) From OoP: "They do it because it's an honour", indeed! (frown)

"I figured him as sort of a absent-minded professor type - so absorbed in his work, he probably forgets to eat."

Not me. I see him as a shrewd businessman who gives honest journalism a bad name -- and who deeply loves his only daughter. Despite my personal opinion of his business practices, I'm very grateful that Luna has him as a father (as opposed to the parents many of the other characters had when they were children).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently Luna's mother was "an exceptional witch." Wish we could learn more about in what ways she was exceptional in Book Seven, but we probably won't. A long time ago, someone on this Forum said they saw Luna's mother as a hippie-type. I wouldn't be surprised. You know, very bright *and* free-spirited. She undoubtedly invented new spells - as Snape did -, because one of them killed her accidently. And right in front of her nine-year-old daughter, too. How awful!

As well as being a lovely, serene girl and a brave girl - all proven in canon - who believes the most outlandish things, I wonder if Luna will turn out to be "an exceptional witch" in her own way in the next book.

Laura



Eponine - Nov 8, 2006 9:24 pm (#767 of 1030)

There's something I've been wondering about. I often see people say that Luna and her father live near the Weasleys. Is there anything other than the mention of the Lovegoods being at the QWC for a week to substantiate this?

It's certainly reasonable to assume that the Lovegoods Mr. Diggory mentioned are Luna and her father, but I certainly can't recall anything in the books (or interviews) to confirm this.



S.E. Jones - Nov 8, 2006 9:41 pm (#768 of 1030)

Other than the mention at the beginning of GoF? Not that I know of.

Here's the passage for those who are curious:

"...and the nearest [Portkey] to us is up at the top of Stoatshead Hill..." (GoF6, p70, US)

"Must be nearly time," said Mr. Weasley quickly, pulling out his watch again. "Do you know whether we're waiting for any more, Amos?"
"No, the Lovegoods have been there for a week already and the Fawcetts couldn't get tickets," said Mr. Diggory. "There aren't any more of us in this area, are there?"
"Not that I know of," said Mr. Weasley. (GoF6, p73, US)

This is the only indication that I know of alluding to the Lovegoods being in the same area.



Eponine - Nov 8, 2006 9:48 pm (#769 of 1030)

And there's not any indication that those Lovegoods are indeed Luna and her father either, is there?



TheSaint - Nov 8, 2006 11:39 pm (#770 of 1030)

Laura I have to respectfully disagree.

I tend to think the whole family is the 'far-out, freewheeling, hippie-type', the father included. The type that believes they were picked up by aliens, implanted, etc. Just folks that think a bit differently. I really think Luna is a product of her environment.



Laura W - Nov 8, 2006 11:50 pm (#771 of 1030)

"I tend to think the whole family is the 'far-out, freewheeling, hippie-type', the father included."



You might be right.



Die Zimtzicke - Nov 9, 2006 11:38 am (#772 of 1030)

I think the Lovegoods mentioned in GoF ARE Luna and her father. I know Jo is sometimes a screw up with names (Mark Evans anyone?) but I think that using the name Lovegood was deliberate. It was one of those things that came back later on in the series, and it may come back again. Perhaps the Lovegoods, as one of the Weasleys closest neighbors, will get invited to Bill and Fleur's wedding?



haymoni - Nov 9, 2006 2:00 pm (#773 of 1030)

I would love that, Die.

I think when Luna sees Fleur in the tiara, she will mention to Harry how much it looks like the one associated with Rowena Ravenclaw, which will make Harry think about the one he saw in the Room of Requirement.

How's that for a reach???



Soul Search - Nov 9, 2006 3:01 pm (#774 of 1030)

haymoni, I don't think it is a "reach" at all. Makes good sense.

Of course, I have never even got the smallest thing right from one novel to another, so hopes aren't that high.



haymoni - Nov 10, 2006 8:20 pm (#775 of 1030)

I haven't been right about anything either.

I sort of came close when I suggested that Narcissa would "home school" Draco rather than let him return to Hogwarts in Book 6. Turns out Auntie Trixie was doing some private tutoring.

That's the closest I've come!



Eric Bailey - Nov 15, 2006 1:27 pm (#776 of 1030)

To add to comparisons, I picture Luna and her father as pretty much Belle and her dad from Disney's Beauty and the Beast. People around them think they're nuts, but the people around them are boring and not exactly the brightest bulbs in the marquee.

And, as I said earlier, I suspect Luna is a bit of an Alice homage, both Carroll's and Disney's. Luna speaks like Carroll's Alice, but older and wiser after her travels, and looks like Disney's, with the long blonde hair and noticably large eyes...

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Luna also has the Disney Alice's ability to be unphased by any of the strangeness going on around her, just being detached and seeing it all as something curious.



journeymom - Nov 16, 2006 10:22 am (#777 of 1030)

Eric Bailey, good connection! It takes a different perspective to come up with a theory like that. The link didn't work, though.



Eric Bailey - Nov 16, 2006 1:32 pm (#778 of 1030)

Well, a different perspective is very Luna. And very Alice, for that matter. Smile

There's major spoilers for Through The Looking Glass next, though I'd guess that's a book we're all familiar with. And if we're not, we SHOULD. Smile

To add to the Alice connection, Luna has a rather tense relationship with McGonagall. Minerva didn't seem too enthusiastic about awarding Ravenclaw points for Luna's heroic actions in OotP, though she was quite happy to give her Gryffindors points for it. She added points for Luna with "I suppose..." And, of course, we have the Quiddich commentary scene. It's safe to say Carroll's an influence on Jo, so I can't help but wonder if she took one of Minerva's catch phrases from the Red Queen in Through The Looking Glass...



'I know what YOU'D like!' the Queen said good-naturedly, taking a little box out of her pocket. 'Have a biscuit?'

Alice thought it would not be civil to say 'No,' though it wasn't at all what she wanted. So she took it, and ate it as well as she could: and it was VERY dry; and she thought she had never been so nearly choked in all her life.

'While you're refreshing yourself,' said the Queen, 'I'll just take the measurements.' And she took a ribbon out of her pocket, marked in inches, and began measuring the ground, and sticking little pegs in here and there.

'At the end of two yards,' she said, putting in a peg to mark the distance, 'I shall give you your directions--have another biscuit?'

'No, thank you,' said Alice: 'one's QUITE enough!'

'Thirst quenched, I hope?' said the Queen.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Minerva's head of Gryffindor House, who's main color is red.

Fans have come up with some elaborate chess theories regarding the 7th book, suggesting that a lot was outlined during the chess scene in the first one. I doubt that, but that was true about Through The Looking Glass, the entire novel following the chess game at the beginning. Alice eventually becomes a Queen, herself, rather than the Pawn she started the game as. She has her final confrontation with the Red Queen...



`Take care of yourself!' screamed the White Queen, seizing Alice's hair with both her hands. `Something's going to happen!'

And then (as Alice afterwards described it) all sorts of things happened in a moment. The candles all grew up to the ceiling, looking something like a bed of rushes with fireworks at the top. As to the bottles, they each took a pair of plates, which they hastily fitted on as wings, and so, with forks for legs, went fluttering about in all directions: `and very like birds they look,' Alice thought to herself, as well as she could in the dreadful confusion that was beginning.

At this moment she heard a hoarse laugh at her side, and turned to see what was the matter with the White Queen; but, instead of the Queen, there was the leg of mutton sitting in the chair. `Here I am!' cried a voice from the souptureen, and Alice turned again, just in time to see the Queen's broad good-natured face grinning at her for a moment over the edge of the tureen, before she disappeared into the soup.

There was not a moment to be lost. Already several of the guests were lying down in the dishes, and the soup-ladle was walking up the table towards Alice's chair, and beckoning to her impatiently to get out of its way.

`I can't stand this any longer!' she cried, as she jumped up and seized the tablecloth with both hands: one good pull, and plates, dishes, guests and candles came crashing down together in a heap on the floor.

`And as for you,' she went on, turning fiercely upon the Red Queen, whom she considered as the cause of all the mischief--but the Queen was no longer at her side--she had suddenly dwindled down to the size of a little doll, and was now on the table, merrily running round and round after her own shawl, which was trailing behind her.

At any other time, Alice would have felt surprised at this, but she was far too much excited to be surprised at anything now. `As for you,' she repeated, catching hold of the little creature in the very act of jumping over a bottle which had just lighted upon the table, `I'll shake you into a kitten, that I will!'

She took her off the table as she spoke, and shook her backwards and forwards with all her might.

The Red Queen made no resistance whatever: only her face grew very small, and her eyes got large and green: and still, as Alice went on shaking her, she kept on growing shorter--and fatter--and softer--and rounder--and--

--and it really was a kitten, after all.



Interesting considering Minerva's animagus form.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 14, 2007 5:17 pm (#779 of 1030)

I think Luna will have a much bigger role in the last book than we previously suspected. I've been giving it a lot more thought, and I think the veil, and the fact that she's a Ravenclaw have to matter more than we've given them credit for.

I do acknowledge that the many extra touches they are giving Luna in the OotP film may be coloring my judgement, but even canonically, she's got so many possibilities.



Luna Logic - Feb 15, 2007 12:59 am (#780 of 1030)

And JKR herself has insisted on Luna's character - not speaking of her role in the books, but saying she loves more and more the character (in what interview? or on her site?).
Thanks Die Zimtzicke for re-animating this thread, some of the first posts are very meaningful. The proximity with the facetious part of Dumbledore's character, for example... I do think one of the "informations" given by Luna, or given by The Quibbler, could have a part in book seven. My guess (Luna-like, no more): for the Horcrux quest (or for the location of Voldemort).
The proximity with Alice's character (see post above) may be also a thread to follow (Behind the Looking Glass! Behind the Hearing Veil?)



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 15, 2007 9:47 am (#781 of 1030)

I think the biggest piece of evidence against Luna having a further role in the series is the Easter Egg we got on JKR's site that was her early plan for Order of the Phoenix. Luna appears nowhere on that plan.

Since Jo has had the series ending planned for years, I find it hard to believe that a character who was a late addition to the fifth book will be significant in the seventh.



journeymom - Feb 15, 2007 10:13 am (#782 of 1030)

That's a really neat comparison to Alice in Wonderland. I love it. But the queen looks more and more like Dolores Umbridge towards the end of that passage, not McGonagall. Short, fat, round and finally associated with kittens.

The chess game in PS doesn't represent the structure of the whole story, but IMO it compares nicely to what happened to Dumbledore in HBP. In PS Hermione plays her part in the game and is then safely shunted aside. Ron then plays his part and sacrifices himself so that Harry can proceed. On the fateful night in HBP the DA members, which included Hermione, played their parts and were safe, relatively unharmed by the end of the battle. Then Dumbledore played his part and made the ultimate sacrifice. We don't know how his death will benefit Harry and the Order, but it is clear to me it will. His death will help Harry along to victory.

Sorry, and I love the idea that Luna floats through school like Alice.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 15, 2007 1:44 pm (#783 of 1030)

Luna came into the story when she was needed. The fact that she was not used earlier doesn't rule out her having a role in the last book. We know that the early plan for Order of the Phoenix wasn't followed, because that's the book where Luna appeared and became quite an important character. Compared to changing your mind in the last book about who you are going to have die or get a reprieve, adding in Luna is minor.



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 15, 2007 2:03 pm (#784 of 1030)

DZ said: Luna came into the story when she was needed. The fact that she was not used earlier doesn't rule out her having a role in the last book. I find your use of words in this very interesting. You say that Luna wasn't "used" earlier. Well, what about the possibility that she didn't even exist as a character yet? Even if you count her "existence" from the mention of the Lovegood name in GoF that's still only one book before OotP. And JKR's earlier outline for OotP doesn't include her, so I gotta go with the idea that she didn't even exist in JKR's mind. So how could she have entered the story when she was "needed" if she hadn't been created until the same moment?

Other than that I do agree that none of that argues against her having an important role in the last book. I think that role will show her as even more of the Anti-Hermione, and that one of her bits of left-of-center info will prove to be important. And she'll be at Hogwarts with Ginny and Neville while the trio are gone, and I think those three will together be a big support to Harry, Ron and Hermione.



peachespig - Feb 15, 2007 3:05 pm (#785 of 1030)

Sunny B, I had also noticed Luna wasn't on that early OotP outline at all, thanks for reminding me! I've wondered for a while whether characters who got a "late entrance" to the series like Luna and Tonks were always part of JKR's plan, or were invented later. I agree that makes it sound like she only came up with Luna after writing GoF and beginning OotP.

I also couldn't help wondering about her role when she was essentially just there to bring the funny in HBP. In OotP she had a clear part to play regarding how Harry deals with Sirius's death, but the way she was handled in book 6 made it feel like she had a one-book plot role and was now hanging around mostly for the amusement.

But although I suspect the fact that she was a late addition to cast may rule out a leading role for her, I don't think that means she can't have any plot role in book 7. It's possible she'll know something about the Ravenclaw Horcrux, for example. And of course I expect her to fight alongside Neville and Ginny. So I agree with Gatorgrad there.

The thing I noticed about Luna is that she doesn't actually change herself over the time we've known her. People learn from her and change their attitudes to her, but she doesn't have her own character development. She's almost like some of the adult characters in that regard.



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 15, 2007 3:06 pm (#786 of 1030)

I guess it depends on your definition of "important role" or "significant role". Jo stated on her website that she was writing scenes that existed in her head for a dozen or maybe more years. Clearly, in my opinion, Luna would not be in any of those scenes as she was a late addition to the Order of the Phoenix book.

Die Z, you state that adding Luna would be minor. Yes, I agree, and I think the key word you used is "minor". But, then I considered her role in OotP to be minor also.

Peachespig, I posted my response before I read yours. Good point about her only role in Half-Blood Prince being comic relief (and to bail Jo out of writing her last Quidditch Match).

As far as the Ravenclaw Horcrux is concerned, my theory on that is Harry will get key information from the Ravenclaw Ghost the Grey Lady. Jo has mentioned the ghost several times in interviews but she has yet to have a role. But, I am digressing, that theory of mine doesn't belong on the Luna Lovegood thread.



peachespig - Feb 15, 2007 3:19 pm (#787 of 1030)

I forgot to ask: Die Zimtzicke, what do you mean by "the many extra touches they are giving Luna in the OotP film"? I thought I'd been following the movie news, but I haven't heard anything about her being in extra scenes or taking on another character's role or anything. Did I miss something?



Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 15, 2007 3:24 pm (#788 of 1030)

I think Luna plays a very important role in bringing out humanity in Harry. She evokes feelings of compassion and makes him think about things differently. I hope she and Neville both have important roles in DH. LPO



Rosie Lu - Feb 15, 2007 5:04 pm (#789 of 1030)

I think Luna will have a decent role in DH, much like Ginny and Neville. But, I still think DH will focus way more on the trio than anyone else.

That said, I am very much looking forward to hearing from Ginny, Neville and Luna again in DH. They're fun characters.



Luna Logic - Feb 16, 2007 12:48 am (#790 of 1030)

peachespig: The thing I noticed about Luna is that she doesn't actually change herself over the time we've known her. People learn from her and change their attitudes to her, but she doesn't have her own character development.
That's an important remark, which hints that Luna is not important as a character for the plot, because JKR insists or the evolution of her characters. But, she may be useful to others personages, or to the plot, as some have said above.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 16, 2007 6:37 pm (#791 of 1030)

This is not a movie thread, but I will answer since I was asked the question. If the mods feel that's inappropriate, they can delete. Luna is going to be the one in the film to show Harry the thestrals and explain them to him. We've had pictures of them walking alone in the forest together, and they have Luna and Harry holding hands in the bulletin board scene. That picture came out on Valentine's day.

By Luna coming in when she was needed, I meant that Harry got someone from another house in his inner circle, just when inter-house unity began to be stressed, and he needed a different point of view.

Jo did say at one point that Ravenclaw would have its day, and I think that might possibly have to do with Luna. That could mean the veil, Ravenclaw and wahtever the Ravenclaw horcrux is, one of the strange animals could prove to be real, or it might even have something to do with how her mother died, Luna is filled with possibilities.

I disagree that she has no developement. We learn more about her in one book that we learned about some other characters in several.



Eponine - Feb 16, 2007 6:57 pm (#792 of 1030)

I disagree that she has no development. We learn more about her in one book that we learned about some other characters in several.

I don't think that's what peachespig meant. Luna hasn't evolved as a character. At the end of HBP, she's the same quirky, spacey girl we met at the beginning of OotP. Harry's character has developed and matured (case in point: he was embarrassed to be seen sitting with Luna and Neville at the beginning of OotP, but he was proud to be with them at the beginning of HBP.) Hermione and Ron have both matured over the books (again, see their attitudes towards Luna), but we haven't seen Luna change at all. So far, she's been a very static character.

And I'm not sure what having Luna show Harry the thestrals in the movie indicates. She explained them to him in the book as well.



Chemyst - Feb 16, 2007 8:34 pm (#793 of 1030)

I think we did see a glimpse of Luna's evolution in the HBP book. It wasn't big, partly because she is only a supporting character; nevertheless, she had her "first date" even if it carried the awkward codicil "as a friend." I think we also have to allow that her mum's death has matured her beyond her years and given her responsibilities and wisdom that the other students were still catching up in learning. (The leap in her evolution as a person took place before we met her.) And thirdly, the very fact that she does have a lot of quirks makes it hard to assess how much evolution is (or is not) taking place because we don't have a "normal" standard to use as a baseline; but I think we have had little hints that she desires friends more now whereas she used to be content to be a loner.



peachespig - Feb 16, 2007 9:21 pm (#794 of 1030)

DZ, thanks for answering about the movie. (I don't think it can be inappropriate to talk about Luna in the movies and how that might relate to the books in the Luna thread, can it?) I guess none of that stuff to me rises above the usual level of how they reshuffle the lines from character to character and so on when they make the movies. I don't think Luna explaining about the Thestrals in movie 5 instead of Hagrid means any more for the final plot than Hermione telling us what Mudblood meant in movie 2 instead of Ron.

And I'm not sure what the significance of the Harry and Luna pic coming out on Valentine's Day would be, either. That they would insert a Harry/Luna relationship quick in between Cho and Ginny? Seems it's either a coincidence or whichever source reported the pic was a little confused. Smile

I agree with all of DZ's suggestions about possibilities for Luna in book 7 -- I think probably not all of them, but for one of those to happen seems quite reasonable. Though I wouldn't be shocked if she didn't do much more than fight with the good guys, either...

Eponine, thanks for explaining what I meant about character development, that's exactly it. We do indeed learn a bit about Luna, but I don't see a character arc for her. How is she changing to overcome some obstacle, the way we have seen (say) Neville grow? I haven't seen it.

Chemyst, Luna's mum's death certainly affected her, but many years before we ever meet her! I'm not saying she's never changed in her history. I'm saying that as a dynamic development within the time frame and plot structure of the book series, I don't see it.

I mentioned adults before, but some other kids that I might compare Luna to are Fred and George. Like her, they are enjoyable, colorful characters with very strong and recognizable personalities. But also like her, they aren't evolving as the books go on: they may react to changing circumstances, but there's no change in their personalities that's part of the story arc. It's not a bad thing, but it means that in some sense it's not as much their story.



Chemyst - Feb 16, 2007 9:49 pm (#795 of 1030)

I'm saying that as a dynamic development within the time frame and plot structure of the book series, I don't see it. – peachespig
Yes. And we don't need to see as much development in her character since she came to the story already somewhat pre-aged. We were given a straightforward explanation that she has already overcome a huge tragedy, so there was no need to use story time to show detailed development in a supporting character.



peachespig - Feb 16, 2007 10:30 pm (#796 of 1030)

Chemyst, I agree -- your calling her "per-aged" sort of goes along with my remark a few comments ago that in some ways Luna is like the adults in her plot role. (Though of course she's childlike at the same time, which is part of her appeal.)

But I just wanted to distinguish supporting characters in Harry's generation like Neville, Ginny and Draco who do go through changes during the time of the books from people like Luna, Fred and George who don't. I do think there is a sense in which a story being told is "about" the characters who are developing. It's 87% Harry's story anyway, but there is a little room for a little supporting character drama...



Soul Search - Feb 17, 2007 6:00 am (#797 of 1030)

We first saw Luna when she was fifteen. Other characters, even minor ones, were introduced when they were eleven. I would expect characters to "develop" from eleven to sixteen, but not so much from fifteen to sixteen.

Some characters didn't change much. Draco, for example, seems the same from eleven to sixteen, even though he had a lot of reason to view the world differently at sixteen.

We didn't know Luna during the timeframe that character development might have occurred.



Eponine - Feb 17, 2007 7:21 am (#798 of 1030)

Not all characters in a book have to be dynamic characters. Even secondary characters like Luna can be static characters and still be important. We don't really see character evolution in many of the adults either. They've come to the books pre-set in their character traits. There's nothing wrong with a character not having an arc or having gone through most of their development off page. They can contribute to the story without going through the same kind of character evolution as more prominent characters.

I'm not really sure what aspect of Luna's character would benefit (herself and the story) from such an evolution.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 17, 2007 7:43 am (#799 of 1030)

One thing that we found out about Luna, in my opinion, is that while everyone thinks she's simply out-to-lunch as Jo put it, she is also fantastic, as Jo also put it, because she can snap out of her dreamy persona, and come up with good ideas when they are needed. I really think a lot of her dreaminess maybe a front that she's developed, as a result of being picked on. She is serious enough when Hermione insults her father, which is the first hint, but she doesn't hold a grudge. If it will help Harry, she will be friends with Hermione.

Luna's unique in that she does not seem to have a personal stake in the war, like Neville or Harry do, but she's willing to join in simply because it's the right thing to do. She's willing to stand in front of a crowd, mostly hostile, and say that she believes Harry. That is not a girl who is simply comic relief as I see it.

Another good point is that Harry can't fight with her because she doesn't allow it. When he goes CAPSLOCK, she can just say "You're being very rude, you know" and he will have to turn away to mutter, and swear, but he won't be able to keep yelling. Most of the people in Harry's inner circle have tempers that can get the best of them. Luna doesn't. That serenity may prove useful on some occasion.

She comes up with the idea to ride the thestrals, so she isn't stupid, not that I ever thought a Ravenclaw would be. As the anti-Hermione, also a comment from Jo, she's got to have a role to play. Hermione brings logic and Luna seems to bring faith.



Eponine - Feb 17, 2007 7:49 am (#800 of 1030)

No one's debating those points, DZ. She's quite fantastic and a bit out to lunch as well. The point is, that so far, Luna is a static character. She has not changed since she showed up in OotP. She's got the same personality traits, the same habits and the same quirks. She has not evolved as a character.


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xray - Feb 17, 2007 8:34 am (#801 of 1030)

If it will help Harry, she will be friends with Hermione. - DZ

Huh?

Hermione brings logic and Luna seems to bring faith.

I wouldn't say she brings faith... more like anti-logic?

IMO, Luna is just being Luna; she rarely takes offense at anything. I love Luna's character and think it was a wonderful addition to the series. It'd have been fun to see Luna's whack back in CoS.

Oh, I had a thought last night and posted it in the Dudley thread, but it's appropriate here too. EDIT: Just discovered that post was moved to the 'Ship thread so moving this little bit to there as well.



peachespig - Feb 17, 2007 8:40 am (#802 of 1030)

Soul Search: I would expect characters to "develop" from eleven to sixteen, but not so much from fifteen to sixteen.

I definitely agree that it's easier to have a substantial character arc for a character that's been around for many books. But if you look at Tonks, who has been around for the same number of books as Luna, I would say she has gone through a character arc, even though much of it was offscreen and Harry misunderstood it at first. She changed from books 5 to 6 because of what she had to deal with and overcome. So a late add to the books doesn't help have real character development, but it doesn't rule it out either.

Draco, for example, seems the same from eleven to sixteen, even though he had a lot of reason to view the world differently at sixteen.

Oh, I disagree about Draco! I think he has a substantital chracter arc in book 6. Again, a lot of it is behind the scenes, but he has clearly evolved from an arrogant, sheltered boy to someone who has had to deal with enormous fear and pressure as he falls under the thumb of real evil. Both his crying confession to Myrtle and his speech to Dumbledore at the end tell us just how much he's had to evolve, from pampered brat to terrified, conflicted would-be killer.

DZ: Luna's unique in that she does not seem to have a personal stake in the war, like Neville or Harry do, but she's willing to join in simply because it's the right thing to do.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "personal stake." I agree that Harry, Neville and (since CoS) Ginny have direct and personal stakes in the struggle against Voldemort. But I would put Ron, Hermione, and most of the rest of the DA along with Luna in not having their own stake other than the general safety of the world and their friends like Harry. In fact I would say Luna's lack of personal stake is a contributor to her lack of character development. Ron and Hermione also don't have character development related to the main dramtic plot -- though unlike Luna they do have arcs in the growing-up plot, having to do with their insecurities and their feelings for each other. But when you have a personal stake, the storyline has an obligation to address it, while characters without stories to be completed can disappear or stay in the background if the author wants.



Chemyst - Feb 17, 2007 9:26 am (#803 of 1030)

Hermione brings logic and Luna seems to bring faith. – DZ
I wouldn't say she brings faith... more like anti-logic? – xray

I am definitely on the "faith" side here. Faith is trust without logic. Luna had faith her items would be returned. She has faith she will see those on the other side of the veil someday (distressing foreshadowing?), and she has faith in so many odd things that the reader truly hopes that she will find the Crumple-horned Snorkack some day. She also holds to principles of allegiance and loyalty, which is a measure of faith.

She has not changed since she showed up in OotP. – Eponine

I think there have been subtle changes as is befitting her character. There have been several hints that friendship is becoming more important to her. So I think the more accurate statement would be, "She has not changed dramatically since she showed up in OotP."



Eponine - Feb 17, 2007 5:03 pm (#804 of 1030)

Was it ever hinted that she didn't think friendship was important? I can't remember.

I'm glad that Harry and co. seem to like her a lot more now. It shows they've matured enough to accept people who are a little odd. It's unfortunate, though, that they don't seem to really spend any time with her. It would be nice to see them really making an effort to include her in things.



Chemyst - Feb 17, 2007 7:17 pm (#805 of 1030)

Was it ever hinted that she didn't think friendship was important?
No. It was never hinted that "friendship" as a concept wasn't important. But when we were first introduced to Luna, she seemed perfectly happy to be a loner. But we've had hints that her participation in the DA left her not quite as content being without friends as she once was. And the next year she was delighted when invited to Slughorn's party; although when we first met her, she didn't seem to care about attending events like that.
The character development may be small, but she is now investing more of her 'emotional capital' outside the Ravenclaw house. Friendship is a two-way exchange; Harry & Co. show more friendship toward her as she is becoming more friendly herself.



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 17, 2007 8:02 pm (#806 of 1030)

she was delighted when invited to Slughorn's party; although when we first met her, she didn't seem to care about attending events like that.

In OotP when Luna was talking to Ron about his Yule Ball experience with Padma Patil, she (Luna) seemed to indicate to Ron that she wouldn't have minded being his date.



Luna Logic - Feb 18, 2007 1:49 am (#807 of 1030)

Chemyst: when we were first introduced to Luna, she seemed perfectly happy to be a loner.
In my experience of life (quite Luna-ish? ) there is a big difference between "to seem" and "to be". Also I don't think Luna has any Ravenclaw friends. I really think she wants (and had wanted) friendship, but doesn't know how to make friends. In the books, we see a one side movement: Harry (then, Harry's friends) making a move to Luna. Thus permitting Luna to be part of a group. (I love Harry for that move!)



Choices - Feb 18, 2007 10:05 am (#808 of 1030)

I agree Luna Logic. I don't think Luna likes being friendless, I think it is more that she is resigned to it. She is different - that is just who she is. She doesn't try to be different, she just is and I think this makes the other kids shy away from her. I do think she wants friends, but does not know how to go about fitting in. That is why she loved the DADA - it was almost like having friends. For once, she felt she belonged. That strikes me as so very sad. I want to hug Luna and be her friend.



Luna Logic - Feb 18, 2007 12:24 pm (#809 of 1030)
Edited by Feb 18, 2007 12:25 pm

Your post was very clear (and moving), Choices. But I think nobody really sees the Lunas of our world! It's easier in a book, and JKR is good at that, thanks to her!
Not been seen don't help those children to learn social ways (sorry, I have not another word!), which must be experienced at a very young age. The problem is that a child or young person like Luna doesn't know at first there are social ways to learn!
But, there, we are very pessimistic about this character. Why not a small surprise, in book 7, a modest evolution of Luna?



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 18, 2007 1:54 pm (#810 of 1030)

Actually, I don't think Luna is any more isolated and friendless at Hogwarts than Neville is. In fact during the DA meetings when people teamed up in pairs, it was Neville who was partner less. Luna was paired up with Justin Finch-Fletchly.



Eric Bailey - Feb 18, 2007 2:33 pm (#811 of 1030)

About Faith and Luna...

Jo has described her own Christian faith as being very important to her writing, and that those who understand that can guess where the series is going. Two things very important to her faith (all faiths, really) are the power of Love and overcoming fear of Death. With this in mind, Albus's actions in HBP make sense. Look at what he tried to stress to both Harry and Tom throughout this series. Look at what Tom lacked (love) and couldn't overcome (fear of Death) that made him into Voldemort. Voldemort even translates into "Flight from Death". We'll be seeing the Veil and the locked room in the DoM (which we've all guessed contains Love) again.

Jo's faith was put most poetically, I think, in the Prayer of St. Francis...

-----------------------------------

Lord, make me an instrument of Your peace.

Where there is hatred, let me sow love;

where there is injury, pardon;

where there is doubt, faith;

where there is despair, hope;

where there is darkness, light;

and where there is sadness, joy.

O, Divine Master,

grant that I may not so much seek

to be consoled as to console;

to be understood as to understand;

to be loved as to love;

for it is in giving that we receive;

it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

------------------------------------

Pretty much Luna's approach to life, wouldn't you say?

We know Jo puts a lot into how she names characters, and a lot of mythical and alchemical symbolism is packed into the name "Luna Lovegood". Luna is the name of the Moon Goddess, and the name of the White Queen in Alchemy that must unite with the Red King. "Lovegood" is self explanitory.

Regarding Luna being "comic relief", here's a little something about Jo you may or may not know...

Jo lost her mother at a young age.

Now, re-read the Bulletin Board scene, with Jo's faith in mind...

-------------------------------

"Yes, it was rather horrible," said Luna conversationally. "I still feel very sad about it sometimes. But I've still got Dad. And anyway, it's not as though I'll never see Mum again, is it?"

"Er - isn't it?" said Harry uncertainly.

She shook her head in disbelief. "Oh, come on. You heard them, just beyond the veil, didn't you?"

"You mean..."

"In that room with the archway. They were just lurking out of sight, that's all. You heard them."

They looked at each other. Luna was smiling slightly. Harry did not know what to say, or to think. Luna believed so many extraordinary things... yet he had been sure he had heard voices beyond the veil too...

--------------------------------------

Jo shared something very personal and poignant with us, there. Of course, Luna is Author's Voice again in HBP, with the Quidditch commentary, which Jo said was how she, herself, would commentate a match. Luna's commentary on Quidditch was Jo's.

While Luna hasn't changed all that much over the last two books, Harry's understanding of her has. This fits with her role in this series, IMO. Jo's used the Hero's Journey structure, throughout. For a quick summary of the steps, see here...

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Of particular interest with Luna is the Meeting With the Goddess, described like this...

--------------------------------

The Road of Trials leads to an encounter with the Queen of the World – the ‘Meeting with the Goddess.’ The goddess figure is representative of the Earth Mother or source of life. She may be approachable, as the hero’s mother, sister, beloved, or She may be seemingly larger than life. She is encompassing beauty, unrevealed mystery, and unification of good and evil.

In myth, Woman is the totality of what can be known. As the hero is initiated into life, the goddess becomes transfigured through his understanding. Alas, those with inferior eyes cannot see her magnificence – they may even perceive her as ugly. While the goddess can never be greater than the hero, she always promises more than he can comprehend. The hero can take her as she is and thus be the king of her created world. Through the goddess, the hero attains mastery over life itself. His trials have prepared him to recognize the richness of life that She offers.

-----------------------------------

As he is as of the end of HBP, Harry can't beat Voldemort. Snape proved that by easily trouncing Harry in a fight. If Snape stomped a magical mudhole in Harry, what would Voldemort do to him? To overcome Voldemort, Harry still has a lot to learn, and it, almost certainly, relates to those aspects of Jo's faith discussed above.



Elanor - Feb 18, 2007 10:01 pm (#812 of 1030)
Edited by S.E. Jones Feb 26, 2007 7:10 pm

Eric: "Look at what Tom lacked (love) and couldn't overcome (fear of Death) that made him into Voldemort. Voldemort even translates into "Flight from Death"."
I do agree on the love/fear idea! Voldemort's name however is very tricky to translate in English IMO, and thus is very interesting, because "vol" means "flight" but also means "theft" and I would translate Voldemort into "death's flight / flight of death" or "death's theft / theft of death" which I find very appropriate too: by creating the horcruxes, Voldemort tried to "steal" his own death!

Edited to add the link.

- Edited to remove a response to a now deleted post. - SE Jones



Chemyst - Feb 19, 2007 8:15 am (#813 of 1030)

Yes, Jo lost her mother at an "early" age, but she was an adult. This is from a 2001 interview with Matt Seaton:

Matt Seaton meets JK Rowling

Wednesday April 18, 2001 The Guardian

[...] Her mother Anne had died in 1990 from multiple sclerosis at the age of 45. With just 20 years between them, Jo and her mother had been very close. "Because I was the older child, to me she was almost like an older sister. I was never in any doubt that she was my mum, but that kind of relationship was there. I could talk to her a lot more freely than some of my friends spoke to their mothers."

Anne Rowling had been 35 when first diagnosed with the illness - "the same age as me now, which is a bit of a facer, isn't it?" Because of the experience of losing her mother, Rowling has recently embraced the MS Society in Scotland and will be helping to publicise MS awareness week shortly. Anne had been a wheelchair user since Jo graduated from Exeter University, but the end, when it came, still seemed sudden.

"The last time I saw her before she died, I went back for Christmas," she recalls, haltingly. "I can't believe in retrospect that I didn't really realise what was about to happen because she was so ill. Her mobility was very limited; she looked ill, very ill - which I'd never really seen before. She was absolutely exhausted.

"She died at home, of respiratory failure. Dad went upstairs and found her dead."



So JKR did not experience the death as a child, but in her mid-20's; which probably reflects in Luna's more mature attitude in discussing the topic of death with Harry.



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 19, 2007 10:00 am (#814 of 1030)

I have to agree with everyone who has said that Luna isn't that well developed of a character in the sense of not having an arc (Sorry, I'm too lazy to go back and quote those comments). I tend to view her as more of a catalyst by which people around her change and grow. I think this is exemplified by the change in Ron's attitude towards her in HBP. He even says it himself - that she's growing on him. And he treats her with more respect in HBP than he did in OotP, with the (forgivable) lapse of calling her Loony before the Christmas party.

That may be Luna's main purpose - to get the people around her to adjust and change how they think, but she doesn't change herself at all.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 19, 2007 11:31 am (#815 of 1030)

Again, how much do you expect her to change from one year to the next? She hasn't had the advantage of time. And if she's more mature to begin with, there's not as much change she has to go through. And she is more mature as I see it. She's not hot tempered, or not even vindictive when people steal her things, and make fun of her, or don't believe her. She has enough faith in herself to let it go, and know it will turn out all right in the end. Her stuff will come back, and she will see those she cares about again, one way or another. She's the one student character who has the self control not to go CAPSLOCK on us.

As for Ron, he says she's growing on him, but he still thinks she's insane and says that, too, so that isn't that much advancement.



peachespig - Feb 19, 2007 12:19 pm (#816 of 1030)

Well, when I talk about Luna changing or not changing, I'm not judging her as a person, I'm analyzing her as a plot element. Just trying to guess what will happen in the next book, and surmising that characters without their own character arcs have less "unfinished business" and so are less guaranteed to see development in the last book.

I am willing to discuss her as a person, though. Smile I think DZ's statement that Luna is "more mature" is an interesting one. What I got from Luna in OotP was, you know, at first here's a person who is sort of in their own world, believes things that aren't true (though maybe something she believes will turn out to be true, that would be pleasantly ironic, but most clearly aren't), seems kind of out of touch. And then to me what was interesting was that at the end, we learn along with Harry that there are certain things she handles with greater grace and calm than most people would.

So I personally wouldn't simply say she's "more mature" because I think it's more complicated than that. I think there are some aspects of life in which she is more mature than her peers, but then others (the more obvious ones) in which she's less. There are some aspects of her I think are quite inspirational and some I wouldn't want to emulate in a million years. They're both there and to me that's what makes her a complex and intruiging character.

As for Ron, I think he is indeed warming to her, but I also agree that there's still a way to go before he would regard her as an equal instead of a curiosity. I don't think that scene means he's falling in love with her, as some people think, but I do think he genuinely has made positive steps toward appreciating her.



xray - Feb 19, 2007 3:05 pm (#817 of 1030)
Edited by S.E. Jones Feb 26, 2007 7:11 pm

I think some people have invested too much time elevating Luna's status in the books. Jo is awesome... it's amazing how such an insignificant character can evoke so much emotion. As much as I like Luna's character though, I can't help but think we're pretty much done with her, save for some comic relief.

- Edited to remove a response to a now deleted post. - SE Jones



Steve Newton - Feb 19, 2007 3:08 pm (#818 of 1030)

I'm not sure what people think of as a major character but Luna has a large role yet to play, if only as the Ravenclaw part of the team. She is part of Harry's core group and will be involved heavily in the last book.



Rosie Lu - Feb 19, 2007 8:58 pm (#819 of 1030)

Speaking of the Ravenclaw tie.... I think the Grey Lady is going to be important, as hasn't Jo hinted at that? She's the Ravenclaw ghost. At any rate, I expect something from Luna and the Grey Lady in connection to Ravenclaw.

I think Luna's a fun character, and I love how Ginny, Harry and Neville all seemed to form a friendship with her in HBP. Even Ron and Hermione warmed up to her a bit. One of my favorite scenes with Luna was Ron warming up to her; that showed great maturity on his part and I think emphasizes what others have been saying about how her character is being used as a way for other characters to grow and mature, rather than her having her own arc.



TheSaint - Feb 19, 2007 10:28 pm (#820 of 1030)

ROFL...Perhaps the something Ravenclaw is a string of butterbeer corks..or some radish earrings! LOL

I think Jo said that Ravenclaw would be getting her due in the next book...something like that.



xray - Feb 20, 2007 12:20 am (#821 of 1030)

The Saint, Rowling did say Ravenclaw would have their day but, as my friend suggested, most likely it means they're going to win the house cup.



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 20, 2007 6:29 am (#822 of 1030)

DZ said: Again, how much do you expect her to change from one year to the next? She hasn't had the advantage of time.

Well, considering that Draco Malfoy went from 0 to 60 in one book/year, it's not so far outside the realm of possibility to expect the same from Luna. And Malfoy's change was to serve a plot purpose; if Luna is supposed to have such a major role in the last book she'll need to change as well.

And I don't agree with the idea that she's more mature. People talk about her serenity and her ability to have faith as signs of her maturity, but I would argue the exact opposite. She has a child's serenity, and a childlike faith. I just think that if she were more mature she would be, at least to a degree, more questioning.



Luna Logic - Feb 20, 2007 6:40 am (#823 of 1030)

I agree with Gatorgrad about some childish aspects of Luna's personality. She seems detached, yes, but IMO it is due to the fact she is (for a part) living in a children' world. No real maturity there. maturity, for me, comes with experience. And experience, in humans matters, implies the handling of some social skills.



Rosie Lu - Feb 20, 2007 7:21 am (#824 of 1030)

I agree with you both, Gatorgrad and Luna Logic, about Luna's childlike serenity. When I think about Luna, I think of a child and make believe. I find it extremely endearing; I really like her character.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 20, 2007 9:11 am (#825 of 1030)

If faith in an afterlife is childlike, I know a lot of adults who have it. But no more about religion...

Doesn't anyone think she's detached because even the people in her own house, who are supposed to be a surrogate family to her, in a sense deliberately try to torment her?

I have read some lovely stories that took off on the theory that the butterbeeer cork necklace is something that she made for or with her mother right before Mrs. Lovegood died, and that Luna keeps it for its sentimental value. I think that's a sweet idea.

I get the impression that some people just don't want anyone who is not from Gryffindor to wind up being close to or useful to Harry in any way that matters. Am I reading that wrong? I hope so.



Soul Search - Feb 20, 2007 9:20 am (#826 of 1030)

I posted this a little after HBP came out. I thought the current Luna posters may find it interesting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I may have figured Luna out, at least a bit.

I'm not saying she isn't a bit flakey, but her scenes in HBP struck me a little differently than those in OotP. Might take a bit of explaining, though.

I got my inspiration from the scene on the Hogwart's Express in "Snape Victorious" where Luna asks "Wrackspurt got you?" Harry was pondering the prophecy, Neville, and his own fate, and feeling, and looking, a bit depressed.

Luna invented the Wrackspurt as a joke, to cheer Harry up. EXACTLY what Harry needed to bring him out of his funk.

Her RotFang conspiracy at Slughorn's party fits the "joke" concept as well. In fact, if you go back and review, even OotP, most of Luna's outrageous suggestions fit the discusson context as a joke. Rethink Nargles in the mistletoe, Crumple Horn Snorkack (focus on vacation with dad), just about all her pronouncements. And, Luna enjoys poking up-tight Hermione; thinks she should lighten up a bit.

So far, no one has caught on, though. But, someone will. Hermione would never figure this out, but Harry might. Maybe Ginny has already figured out Luna; she says "Luna's all right" when we first meet her.

I wonder if the whole Quibbler is really meant as a form of humor magazine, rather than a platform for the off-beat and weird. Sort of "Mad" for the wizarding world.

This change of view of Luna has also revised my opinion of her future storyline. Luna will have a continuing role. She and Neville are a part of Harry's team and each bring something that others don't.

Previous posts point out Luna's rather unique character, especially a "calmness" that allows her to focus on the problem at hand better than anyone else. Her frankness and honest commentary are unique, and rather valuable.

Luna's role will be quite significant.



Thom Matheson - Feb 20, 2007 9:21 am (#827 of 1030)

Die, I think you reading it wrong. The best example I can give you is the DA. They come together, but not necessarily as we would assume because of the Griffindor connection.



Elanor - Feb 20, 2007 9:29 am (#828 of 1030)

About Ron saying: "You know, she's grown on me, Luna" [...] I know she's insane but it is in a good -" (HBP, p.425, US paperback), I think it is something very positive actually, even the "insane" part.

Remember the same Ron at the end of PS/SS, when Harry tells him and Hermione about the discussion he just had with DD:

"I always said he [DD] was off his rocker,' said Ron, looking quite impressed at how mad his hero was."
And a bit later: "Yeah, Dumbledore is barking, all right,' said Ron proudly."

"Madness" is, IMO, a very positive trait in the series and a very interesting one symbolically: it is a reference to the Fool's madness, madness which hides higher wisdom. This is true for Dumbledore and, in another way, this is true for Luna too. Her "luna-cy" reveals a complete honesty, which is seen as embarassing by many, a unique way to tell truths most not dare to say aloud.

In that regard, it is very interesting to compare this to Riddle's fear of the asylum when he was a child. As posted once on the alchemy thread:

"Riddle's negation of a supposed madness is also a negation of the wisdom bound to it. Interesting if we remember that DD, on the contrary, has no objection to be called a "barmy old codger" (GoF p.332) or if we remember this dialogue between Harry and Percy at the PS's start of term feast, talking about DD:

"Is he - a bit mad?' he asked Percy uncertainly. 'Mad?' said Percy airily. 'He's a genius! Best wizard in the world! But he is a bit mad, yes."

Here, as in the Fool's symbolism (used by the alchemists), madness and wisdom are closely bound. " (whole post can be found here)



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 20, 2007 9:32 am (#829 of 1030)

But no one from any other house that joined the DA was of any use to Harry when he needed them but Luna. Luna's loyalty must mean something. They all bailed on Harry when he needed them. And I don't think it's because they don't take their coins to bed. When the uproar started, some of them could have gone to see what the problem was.

Mad magazine? Maybe the Quibbler is more National Lampoon, or that Onion site. I've never seen it, but I've heard of it. Some people have certainly taken them seriously when they shouldn't have, from what I've heard.



peachespig - Feb 20, 2007 9:40 am (#830 of 1030)

Some interesting discussions!

DZ: Doesn't anyone think she's detached because even the people in her own house, who are supposed to be a surrogate family to her, in a sense deliberately try to torment her?

Well, which came first? I always assumed she was tormented because she was "different" -- that she was already her unusual, out-there self and the other kids teased her about it.

DZ and Soul Search, I see things slightly differently. It sounds to me like you guys are trying to "normalize" Luna by ascribing thoughtful and self-aware motives to the unusual things she does -- that she does them "on purpose" if you will, that she is doing them deliberately as a statement or to help Harry. I tend think otherwise, that she does what she does because that's who she is. For instance:

DZ: I have read some lovely stories that took off on the theory that the butterbeeer cork necklace is something that she made for or with her mother right before Mrs. Lovegood died, and that Luna keeps it for its sentimental value. I think that's a sweet idea.

That is sweet, and who knows it could be true, but I don't think the eccentric things Luna does are generally there because of some deeper, more serious reason. I think in most cases she really is eccentric.

Soul Search: Luna invented the Wrackspurt as a joke, to cheer Harry up. EXACTLY what Harry needed to bring him out of his funk....Her RotFang conspiracy at Slughorn's party fits the "joke" concept as well.

Again, I respectfully disagree. It may indeed have cheered Harry up, but I don't believe Luna's inventing conspiracy theories as a calculated, thoughtful gesture on Harry's behalf. I think Luna's eccentric because that's the way she is, because she can't help it, and I think she really does believe those things; I think it's supposed to be funny that she really believes them. I don't see any evidence that she could stop if she needed to.



haymoni - Feb 20, 2007 9:54 am (#831 of 1030)

Luna believes these things because she was taught by her father.

Just like Draco & the pure-blood thing - he learned it at home first.

Luna just marches to a different drummer and has learned to survive just fine.

Harry values her and that is really all that matters. He'd set Ron or Hermione straight, or anyone else for that matter that questions Luna.



Steve Newton - Feb 20, 2007 10:17 am (#832 of 1030)

Elanor, well spotted. Mad Eye Moody, the real one, also seems to be one of the good guys.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 20, 2007 10:24 am (#833 of 1030)

Maybe some of us are going out of our way to normalize Luna, hoping she will be of some importance to the story, but I think some fans on various boards also go out of their way to make her out to be a weirdo whackjob who must be meaningless. Harry does value her, at least as much as Neville. He felt that same rush of affection for them both at Dumbledore's funeral, and once Harry cares about someone, he doesn't just let it go. She'll show up again. We just can't determine in what capacity. I completely disagree with the idea that it's simply as comic relief. I know that's what the recent mugglenet book said, but they also said the last HP book would probably come out in 2008. Shrugs.



peachespig - Feb 20, 2007 11:00 am (#834 of 1030)

DZ, I agree with what you say. I do think Luna is comic relief sometimes, but then again I also think Ron and Hermione are comic relief sometimes; it's not a bad thing. And I also agree that Luna will likely not be only comic relief in DH; I expect the DA will have another moment and I fully expect she will be right there with them, if nothing else.

I hope I'm not coming off like I'm trying to make her out to be a whackjob, I'm just trying to call it like I see it. I think she's both genuinely eccentric and fundamentally decent; complexity makes characters interesting.



Chemyst - Feb 20, 2007 11:54 am (#835 of 1030)

And I don't agree with the idea that she's more mature. People talk about her serenity and her ability to have faith as signs of her maturity, but I would argue the exact opposite. She has a child's serenity... – gatorgrad

Ah. ...or perhaps Madam Sprout developed some wizard form of Ritalin we don't know about? Serenity and acceptance are not exactly the standard in childlike behavior. The immature response to people taking your stuff and making fun of you is not serenity; it is to get mad, hit back, and get even. Luna has experienced more loss and rejection than most of her peers, and her experiences have taught her to implement 'serenity' as her survival skill of choice.
____________________________

I'm almost offended at the notion that Luna's primary purpose is comic relief. The quirks and comedy are ancillary. I think her main role has the much weightier task of adding a mature perspective that other students don't have and that JKR would not want to encumber by using an adult character. For example, if McGonagall tells Harry something, he has to accept it or rebel against the authority of a teacher/headmistress. Luna would be able to bring the same idea into the story but Harry has the freedom to accept or reject it for its plain truth. (re: "Luna was demonstrating her usual knack of speaking uncomfortable truths;" from HBP15, page 311 Scholastic)

Bottom line: Luna is important to Harry. So she will be important to the story.



TheSaint - Feb 20, 2007 3:22 pm (#836 of 1030)

xray - The Saint, Rowling did say Ravenclaw would have their day but, as my friend suggested, most likely it means they're going to win the house cup.

That would be quite a let down for Ravenclaw. We have not seen a house cup awarded in the last three books...Cedric died, Sirius died and Harry didn't go, and Dumbledore died. The world is at war and lives on on the line, somehow the house cup seems a bit trivial.



haymoni - Feb 20, 2007 4:26 pm (#837 of 1030)

I think Luna will comment that the tiara that Fleur is wearing looks like that of Rowena Ravenclaw which will make Harry remember the tiara in the Room of Requirement.

He would never have discovered it without Luna's help.

I personally think that Ravenclaw has ALREADY had its day by having such a gem of a character in Luna.



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 20, 2007 4:51 pm (#838 of 1030)

haymoni, you asked (on the shipping thread) why people think that Luna was a late addition.

Do you remember the Easter Egg we got on Jo's site that was named "early plan for Order of the Phoenix"? Well, Luna's name is no where to be found on that note paper. We saw some things on there that were changed for instance, Grawp is referred to as Hagrid's cousin and it looks like the group of students were the ones originally named "Order of the Phoenix" and it was the adult group that was called "Dumbledore's Army." But, again, there was no mention whatsoever of Luna or the Quibbler.

Also, on JKR's website under FAQ's she listed her favorite characters as: Harry, Ron, Hermione, Fred, George, Ginny, Dumbledore and Hagrid. And then she added that her favorite "new character" is Luna. That is another reason why I think Luna is a late addition.

Now, I'm not saying that this means that it is absolutely impossible for her to have any role in the seventh book. I just think that the role is not going to be a significant one (in other words, it will not be Horcrux related). That clearly is just my opinion and there are many who disagree.

But, we'll see in 5 months time.



xray - Feb 20, 2007 4:53 pm (#839 of 1030)

Why doesn't Luna have any Ravenclaw friends?



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 20, 2007 6:01 pm (#840 of 1030)

DZ said: If faith in an afterlife is childlike, I know a lot of adults who have it.

And if that was the only example of her "faith" I'd enthusiastically agree. But Crumple Horned Snorkcacks? Wrackspurts? Heliopaths? Blumbering Humdingers (excuse any misnaming of the creatures - I don't have the books handy)? All those strike me as the wizarding equivalent of a Muggle child believing there are monsters under the bed.

I get the impression that some people just don't want anyone who is not from Gryffindor to wind up being close to or useful to Harry in any way that matters. Am I reading that wrong? I hope so.

You are absolutely reading that wrong, at least in my case. I've never said that Luna couldn't, or wouldn't, be important in the last book. I just disagree with your reasons for thinking so. How that translates into anti-anyone-but-Gryffindor sentiments is beyond me.

Chemyst said: Serenity and acceptance are not exactly the standard in childlike behavior.

Oh really? So the fact that Luna blindly, and without question, believes anything and everything in her father's paper isn't an example of acceptance? She never questions things, which is a form of serenity, is it not?



Eponine - Feb 20, 2007 6:25 pm (#841 of 1030)
Edited by S.E. Jones Feb 27, 2007 2:10 am

- The following paragraph was in response to a now deleted post by BrandyCane that stated: "And Chemyst, If I'm not mistaken, I think that you've mentioned the fact that Jo, after meeting Evanna, gave Luna's character a reprieve...". - SE Jones

If Luna was the character who got the reprieve, then I sincerely doubt that it was meeting Evanna that made Jo decide not to kill her. Jo has always said that she's writing the books the way she's going to write them, and whichever character she decided to spare, I think it would be because she found a purpose for the character or it served the plot, not because she liked the actor/actress that played the character.

I believe Luna does have a part to play in DH, and I hope she'll serve the story well. As a secondary character, however, I'm not sure that she'll be a major part of the book. I tend to think that this book will focus more on the Trio.



Rosie Lu - Feb 20, 2007 7:05 pm (#842 of 1030)

I tend to think that this book will focus more on the Trio.

That's me as well. I think this book will have an extreme trio focus.

But, as I said elsewhere, I do think Luna has a role to play, just as I think Neville and Ginny have roles to play. They were the only three, other than the trio, who fought in the last two books at the end. That has to mean for something. What I'd love to see is the three of them rebuilding the DA at Hogwarts.



Luna Logic - Feb 21, 2007 1:28 am (#843 of 1030)
Edited by Feb 21, 2007 1:31 am

Xray: Why doesn't Luna have any Ravenclaw friends?
The Lexicon book 5 synopsis presents Luna as she appears “on the surface” :”we see someone who puts her wand behind her ear, wears a necklace of butterbeer corks, and laughs too loudly at jokes.” . Then the Lexicon use the expression “lack of social skills” Not the best qualities to have friends! But well suited to be “the butt of jokes”, to get the nickname of Loony Luna, and to see her things stolen “ all through the year”…
“Luna Lovegood is a witch in Ginny's year who is considered a bit weird by her classmates.”( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] “May be all the Ravenclaw students, as others, are staying on the surface of this character? The social skills being precisely the art to create a surface acceptable for others.

Then the first “bringing together” in the social history of Luna seems to be the one with Harry. Why? It seems some on this thread are trying to definite a sort of proximity in a part of their characters.
The definition of this proximity could be important to understand also Harry character. I’m thinking, in Harry’s case, of the place of intuition and instinct: Harry listening to his magical instincts and intuition?



Jadelollipop - Feb 21, 2007 3:45 am (#844 of 1030)

I adore Luna as a character..Personally shipped her with Neville until JKR shot down N/L.(sob) Still think they would be good for each other...I think she is a late addition and is therefore not the one mentioned as the reprieve or the two additional deaths. I am willing to be wrong about this. It would be a slight change to add "Luna lived too". I think she may have some clue about the Ravenclaw artifact but her help will be minor...I think Ginny has more help to offer about Riddle due to COS. I read on a forum or essay somewhere long ago that in HP we see the animosity of Gryffindor/Slytherin but never the interaction of Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff...the idea being that they would be just as opposite of each other as G/S...Ie Ravenclaw made up of individuals and original thinkers, loners whereas Hufflepuff is team players and working together..



Chemyst - Feb 21, 2007 9:09 am (#845 of 1030)

And Chemyst, If I'm not mistaken, I think that you've mentioned the fact that Jo, after meeting Evanna, gave Luna's character a reprieve...
Nope. Sorry, but that wasn't me.

Oh really? So the fact that Luna blindly, and without question, believes anything and everything in her father's paper isn't an example of acceptance? She never questions things, which is a form of serenity, is it not?
The point of debate was not if gullibility is an example of acceptance or if acceptance is a form of serenity. The point of debate was if serenity (being serene, calm, peaceful or tranquil) is associated with "childlike" when your things are being taken and you are being called names. I'm sticking to my guns on this one; the only time "serenity" is equivalent with "childlike" is when the baby is sleeping.



Thom Matheson - Feb 21, 2007 10:02 am (#846 of 1030)

And then turn around and wake up in the middle of the night with a full diaper.



haymoni - Feb 21, 2007 10:06 am (#847 of 1030)

Thanks for the comments on why you think Luna was a late addition.

All I can say is "Thank Goodness!!"

I'd really like to think that I would have been like Ginny and encouraged folks to sit with Luna, but I think that I would have been more like Neville and avoided her.

As an adult, I can appreciate Luna - especially when she calls Hermione out - but I can see how the other students would find her odd.

Certainly Harry has had his own experiences with being the odd-man-out, courtesy of Dudley, so perhaps he is more willing to accept Luna as she is.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 21, 2007 11:45 am (#848 of 1030)

Personally I think it wiould be fun if one of Luna's animals did turn out to be real. Is a Wrackspurt or a Snorkack really that far out compared to some of the real things we've seen, like thestrals or bowtruckles? They don't seem any weirder to me. The wizarding world has a lot of experience with animals that are even weirder. If a heliopath showed up, I wouldn't be surprised at this point,and actually, for Luna's sake, I hope it does. Then she can give Harry and Ron and Hermione a serene "I told you so!" look, and I WOULD consider that comical.

I just don't see why the animals are a recurring reason fans seem to think Luna is definitely crazy.



haymoni - Feb 21, 2007 11:59 am (#849 of 1030)

I don't think it means that she is crazy. She was raised by the author of The Quibbler!! How many people believe in Big Foot or the Loch Ness Monster? Does that make them crazy? Gullible? Or does it just mean that they choose to believe until someone proves them wrong?

Luna is open to all possiblities. We have been told that Jo uses Hermione to spit out facts, so it is confusing when Luna & Hermione get into an argument. Is Luna wrong? Is Hermione wrong? Is Jo just doing this for fun?

We are so used to looking for clues that we just can't enjoy a character for what she is.



Luna Logic - Feb 21, 2007 12:20 pm (#850 of 1030)
Edited by Feb 21, 2007 12:22 pm

Hey, Haymoni! I enjoy all Jo's characters for what they are! (with the exception of Umbridge, perhaps, I don't know why ).
But I agree with you, I wonder about the heat aroused sometimes around some characters in those discussions... I enjoy the character and role of Luna, without questions! (and with some faith). But it's fun (it could be...) to discuss the choices of the author, concerning the characters, their role in the plot, or their evolution.


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Thom Matheson - Feb 21, 2007 12:41 pm (#851 of 1030)

But how many read the magazine upsidedown?



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 21, 2007 12:54 pm (#852 of 1030)

During the Q & A session at the Edinburgh Book Festival in August of 2004 (transcript is on JKR's website) Jo, herself described Luna as "completely out to lunch, but fantastic." I don't think Jo really wants people to think she's normal, but wants us to like her anyway, for being loyal to Harry & company and being willing to fight on the good side.

In rereading that Book Fair transcript, Jo once again told the audience that the ending of the series is the same in all important respects that she planned prior to 1997.



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 21, 2007 2:09 pm (#853 of 1030)

Chemyst: I'm sticking to my guns on this one

Then we'll agree to disagree on this point. Smile

DZ: I just don't see why the animals are a recurring reason fans seem to think Luna is definitely crazy.

And I don't see where I said belief in them was a sign that Luna is crazy. I was using them as examples of things that she believes without question; things that she has a childlike faith in.

Is a Wrackspurt or a Snorkack really that far out compared to some of the real things we've seen, like thestrals or bowtruckles?

The concept is not out there, no. But as of right NOW none of them are real creatures in the books. I think there's a pretty good chance that one of them will turn out to be real in Book 7, but until that moment they are emphatically NOT.



timrew - Feb 21, 2007 3:00 pm (#854 of 1030)

Thom Matheson:- But how many read the magazine upsidedown?

I thought that was explained, Thom - unless it's me explaining it to myself!

Wasn't she looking up the answers to some quiz, that were posted upside-down?



Laura W - Feb 21, 2007 4:47 pm (#855 of 1030)

Thom and timrew, that particular issue of the magazine had an article in it about ancient runes. I assume there was a photo of the runes accompanying the piece because, "if you turned the runes on their heads they revealed a spell to make your enemy's ears turn into kumquats." Some very handy information to have at your disposal if the need arises, I'd say.

Ah, you might all laugh, but when Luna Lovegood turns a Death Eater's ears into kumquats in DH, who'll be laughing then? (wink) After all, The Quibbler *was* the first media outlet to inform the WW about Lord Voldemort coming back and regrouping his DEs. (nodding wisely in Luna's direction)

Laura



Thom Matheson - Feb 21, 2007 5:51 pm (#856 of 1030)

Laura, thanks for the info. I didn't know that. Kind of like a secret decoder ring. Too cool, I will go to the kitchen and eat a couple of raddishes. Isn't Ginny one of her friends and best defenders?



Choices - Feb 21, 2007 6:11 pm (#857 of 1030)

Back when I was a girl, we all thought the earth was flat until some yahoo came along and insisted it was round. Boy, did we think he was crazy. Luna and her odd ideas seem crazy, but who knows....she may just be ahead of her time. :-)

I do like the idea that JKR wants us to think Luna is "looney", but to like her anyway - to look beyond her strange ideas and admire her for the wonderful qualities she possesses - honesty and loyalty. She really has a sweet sadness about her that is very endearing.



Chemyst - Feb 21, 2007 7:01 pm (#858 of 1030)
Edited by S.E. Jones Feb 26, 2007 7:18 pm

Choices, you may be on to something. The Flat Earth Society has a motto: "Deprogramming the masses since 1547" I think that does sound a little wizard-like! Usually they wouldn't care what muggles think, but all it would take would be a couple of Arthur-types.

- Edited to remove a response to a now deleted post. - SE Jones



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 21, 2007 9:11 pm (#859 of 1030)

I know I've definitely read a magazine upside down to get the answers to a puzzle, but then I can read upside down anyway. It comes in handy when someone's interviewing you and you want to see their notes! But I digress...

I do think that Jo intended Luna to be a sympathetic character. Luna has never done anything cruel to anyone, said anything cruel to anyone, or been less than helpful. So what's to dislike?



Jadelollipop - Feb 22, 2007 6:20 am (#860 of 1030)

I don't know of anyone who dislikes Luna. She is a fun character. The Anti-Hermione. However, she is the odd duck and is isolated in Ravenclaw. Rather like Neville in Gryffindor...up until OOTP a lot of fans thought he had been sorted into the wrong house. Within the books, so did Malfoy and even Neville had doubts. (Harry's famous Your'e worth 12 of Malfoy line).. The question about Luna is what her role will be in DH...She was instrumental in OOTP in getting Harry's story to the public (in concert with Hermione). We see Harry's growth from OOTP to HBP in his acceptance of her friendship (odd ways and all) but she is not and won't be the Love Interest...I do think she may have a role in identifying the Ravenclaw artifact..Smile



Eponine - Feb 22, 2007 8:38 am (#861 of 1030)

I love Luna, canon Luna that is. I love the eccentric, quirky conspiracy nut who believes in impossible things. What I don't love is the tendency of some to make her into something she's not. She's not an ethereal goddess/part-fairy. She's an odd teenage girl who has a lot of endearing qualities. I love her honesty and her serenity. She's open and earnest, and I love her just as she is.

I hope she does have a part to play in DH, but I'm of the opinion that it will be of secondary or tertiary importance to the main plot.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 22, 2007 9:02 am (#862 of 1030)

Since the topic of Jo's OotP notes has come up once in awhile, I gave that more thought, and I don't think they were supposed to tell us anything, about Luna or anything else. For one thing, I can't believe what Jo gave us was all she had for a book that size. For another thing, I can't believe a woman who takes the time to answer a question on her site by basically saying she can't answer that question would have given out anything major in those notes.

The notes weren't to tell us who was important, and who was not. They were to give us something else to talk about, and speculate on, which they did. But it's not proof Luna will be important, OR that she will not as I see it.



haymoni - Feb 22, 2007 9:51 am (#863 of 1030)

I've always thought that that Luna was READING the Quibbler upside down. She wasn't taking a test - she wasn't flipping it back and forth checking answers. She was reading it. So what is Daddy leaving his daughter in the Quibbler?



peachespig - Feb 22, 2007 10:05 am (#864 of 1030)

Choices: Back when I was a girl, we all thought the earth was flat until some yahoo came along and insisted it was round. Boy, did we think he was crazy. Luna and her odd ideas seem crazy, but who knows....she may just be ahead of her time. :-)

The trouble is, 99.99% of the really crazy ideas out there aren't visionary, they're just goofy. Smile One has to be on the lookout for out-there ideas that might be right, but if you stopped to take every out-there idea seriously...

Choices: I do like the idea that JKR wants us to think Luna is "looney", but to like her anyway - to look beyond her strange ideas and admire her for the wonderful qualities she possesses - honesty and loyalty. She really has a sweet sadness about her that is very endearing.

I agree completely.

Eponine: She's not an ethereal goddess/part-fairy. She's an odd teenage girl who has a lot of endearing qualities.

Well, exactly! All of our characters, witches and wizards though they are, are still recognizably human. I haven't read any arguments that Luna's part-fairy, but to me she's most compelling when understood as a human being, magic or no. Just like the rest of them.

People used to try to do this to Hermione, too -- give her a more special, interesting backstory, secret daughter of powerful wizards, etc. Characters can be compelling when they're just people. More so, I think.

DZ: Since the topic of Jo's OotP notes has come up once in awhile, I gave that more thought, and I don't think they were supposed to tell us anything, about Luna or anything else.

Oh, I don't think they were supposed to tell us something about Luna. But the fact that's she's not anywhere on the chart -- which does appear to be a complete chart of the storyline otherwise -- suggests Luna wasn't invented yet, which Jo might not even realize she'd told us. (The alternative is that Luna was already invented but was considered so insignificant to the plot that Jo didn't write her down, and I doubt that.)

DZ: For another thing, I can't believe a woman who takes the time to answer a question on her site by basically saying she can't answer that question would have given out anything major in those notes.

She doesn't avoid telling us anything at all, just things that are specifically spoilery for important plot points. It's not like the notes had "Neville kills Snape in book 7!!!" scrawled on them, or "Dumbledore prepares to die" or whatever. She may not realize she implied when Luna had been created, and even if she did, she may well not care. I doubt it would rise to the cateogry of any kind of serious spoiler.



Wanda - Feb 22, 2007 10:56 am (#865 of 1030)

haymoni, it appears to Harry that Luna is reading the Quibbler upside down when he first enters the carriage. It is one of the things which gives her the 'aura of distinct dottiness'.

But it turns out she is just reading the runes upside down, not the whole magazine... 'According to the magazine, if you turned the runes on their heads they revealed a spell to make your enemy's ears turn into kumquats'. It doesn't say anywhere she was flipping back and forth... and I think it's highly unlikely that her Daddy's leaving her any secret messages.



haymoni - Feb 22, 2007 11:47 am (#866 of 1030)

I want to believe it anyway, Wanda!!!

I mean, how sweet would that be? Mr. Lovegood taking the time to encode messages to Luna?

Gotta love her!



Thom Matheson - Feb 22, 2007 12:20 pm (#867 of 1030)

Any girl that wears matching radishes gets a vote from me. I saw a lovely pair of carrots the other day in a jewelry store.



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 22, 2007 12:28 pm (#868 of 1030)

DZ: I know I've definitely read a magazine upside down to get the answers to a puzzle, but then I can read upside down anyway.

I can too! It's one of those oddball, yet useful skills. I deliberately taught myself how to do it. Smile

I do think that Jo intended Luna to be a sympathetic character. Luna has never done anything cruel to anyone, said anything cruel to anyone, or been less than helpful. So what's to dislike?

Nothing at all. I start to get a little cranky when certain aspects of the character get ignored, though. Part of what makes Luna lovable is the fact that she's a bit odd and off-the-wall. To me she wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting if she lacked her "distinct air of dottiness".

And DZ, your words quoted above have sparked something in my head. Do you mind if I quote you on another thread here on this forum for discussion purposes?

Eponine: What I don't love is the tendency of some to make her into something she's not.

Amen to that!



Eric Bailey - Feb 22, 2007 2:32 pm (#869 of 1030)

I think it's safe to say that Jo having her as part of the team that went into the DoM wasn't an accident on Jo's part. If she wasn't a major character, she wouldn't have been a part of that. She's as important a character as Neville and Ginny.

It also needs to be remembered that Jo picks names for her characters very carefully. There's a lot of meaning in "Luna Lovegood".

And, again, the Bulletin Board scene wasn't "comedy relief". Jo has stressed that her own faith plays a huge part in her writing, and that those who understand that can guess where she's going with this. The Power the Dark Lord Knows Not is Love (not snogging, as Tom is bound to have managed that over the years). His greatest weakness is his fear of Death. What Harry has to learn has to do with both. And, make no mistake: Harry isn't ready to take on Voldemort as he is. Snape proved that by trouncing Harry with ease. If Snape can crush Harry, what would Tom do to him?

And, it just so happens that Harry has a friend who embodies the very things he needs to learn.

It's also worth pointing out how important it was to Jo that the moviemakers get Luna right. This led to the biggest casting search for these films since Harry was cast. You have to wonder why this was so important to Jo, if she's just a minor comedy relief character.

Plus, who was it that kept a cool head and worked out how they'd get to the DoM while everybody around her was busy yelling at each other? Hint: It wasn't Hermione.

Someone mentioned the Fae Theory, so I think we should go into where it comes from. It's about how two characters have physical features that we've seen with no one else in the wizarding world, and how they also happen to have similar personalities. From the first book...

------------------------------------

For some reason, the back of his neck prickled. The very dust and silence in here seemed to tingle with some secret magic.

"Good afternoon," said a soft voice. Harry jumped. Hagrid must have jumped, too, because there was a loud crunching noise and he got quickly off the spindly chair.

An old man was standing before them, his wide, pale eyes shining like moons through the gloom of the shop.

"Hello," said Harry awkwardly.

"Ah yes," said the man. "Yes, yes. I thought I'd be seeing you soon. Harry Potter." It wasn't a question. "You have your mother's eyes. It seems only yesterday she was in here herself, buying her first wand. Ten and a quarter inches long, swishy, made of willow. Nice wand for charm work."

Mr. Ollivander moved closer to Harry. Harry wished he would blink. Those silvery eyes were a bit creepy.

"Your father, on the other hand, favored a mahogony wand. Eleven inches. Pliable. A little more power and excellent for transfiguration. Well, I say your father favored it - it's really the wand that chooses the wizard, of course."

Mr. Ollivander had come so close that he and Harry were almost nose to nose. Harry could see himself reflected in those misty eyes.

-----------------------------------

Ollivander also makes it clear that he knows what's in Hagrid's umbrella. Ollivander unnerves Harry, in large part because of those eyes. We don't meet anyone else like that until OotP...

----------------------------------

Harry and Neville stowed the three trunks and Hedwig's cage in the luggage rack and sat down. The girl called Luna watched them over her upside-down magazine, which was called The Quibbler. She did not seem to need to blink as much as normal humans. She stared and stared at Harry, who had taken the seat opposite her and now wished he had not.

"Had a good summer, Luna?" Ginny asked.

"Yes," said Luna dreamily, without taking her eyes off Harry. "Yes, it was quite enjoyable, you know. You're Harry Potter," she added.

-----------------------------

And later...

----------------------------

"It's all right," said a dreamy voice from beside Harry as Ron vanished into the coach's dark interior. "You're not going mad or anything. I can see them too."

"Can you?" said Harry desperately, turning to Luna. He could see the bat-winged horses reflected in her wide, silvery eyes.

---------------------------

So, we have these two characters with distinct physical features that set them apart from the rest, and similar personalites. Interesting wording, too. "She did not seem to need to blink as much as normal humans." Why word it that way instead of "normal people"?

Then, we have the Dumbledores, another unusual family. We'd always assumed their long lifespans were common among wizards, but the Black Family tapestry and the Wizards/Witches of the Month indicate this isn't the case. Most witches and wizards don't live nearly that long. Phineas was Albus's contemporary, and died in the 1920s. Albus was over 150, and didn't even die of natural causes.

Albus has unusual eyes, too, though not as pronounced as Ollivander's and Luna's. They're still reflective, though, even twinkling and glinting. The Dumbledores also share Luna's and Ollivander's eccentricity. And, Jo did say that Dumbledore's family tree was a "worthy area of inquiry".

So, the speculation comes from the question of what makes Luna and Ollivander so different than the rest, physically and otherwise. Remember, we didn't learn Hagrid's heritage until the fourth book.

BTW, this isn't Disney's fairy godmothers or Tinkerbell we're discussing, but the classic Fae of Celtic myth, the Sidhe, the Tuatha De Danaan, the Seelie and Unseelie Courts. That happens to be where Jo got boggarts and brownies from. It's like how Jo's merpeople were the frightening figures from Celtic myth, rather than Ariel from The Little Mermaid.

Merlin and Morgan are historical figures in the Potterverse. And where there's Morgan, there's Avalon.



Rosie Lu - Feb 22, 2007 4:38 pm (#870 of 1030)

And, Jo did say that Dumbledore's family tree was a "worthy area of inquiry".

I took that as a big hint that Dumbledore was related to Gryffindor. I'd much, much rather it be Dumbledore who's related to Gryffindor than Harry.

To get this back to Luna, while I don't see anything connecting Luna with Dumbledore, I can see similarities with Ollivander. I also see similarities with Trelawney. Didn't Trelawney and Luna get along real well in HBP? I thought that was funny.

Also, I don't know anyone who doesn't like Luna. She's a fun character, I like her in much the same way as I like Fred and George.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 22, 2007 6:04 pm (#871 of 1030)

I don't care who quotes me where, just so you all know. It's fine with me, unless you're copying things and putting them on locked live journals. I hate to be anywhere I can't see if I was quoted correctly.

What Luna does have in common with Dumbledore, I think, is that people say they're mad, but they're really good people, as we've said before.



Laura W - Feb 22, 2007 11:06 pm (#872 of 1030)

Yes, Eric, a couple of days ago I too remembered that both Luna and Ollivander were described as having silvery-coloured eyes. I didn't put any significance to that - except to find it kind of creepy -, but I think there might have been some significance to Jo having made that decision. I notice there is no mention of Trelawney having silver eyes. Dumbledore's are sparkling blue, of course. Hmmm. I would never have put Luna and Ollivander together on any level. Either it is just a coincidence that they both have the same (odd)coloured eyes and we are seeing (pun intended) something that isn't there, or this bit of information means something which will be made clear in DH. And one could certainly see where Luna and Sybill would get along.

Laura



Chemyst - Feb 23, 2007 4:21 am (#873 of 1030)

Eric! ...the snogging Tom! Eew! Fortunately for witches everywhere he probably found it tedious to use panache-charm when magic-charm would do, so perhaps there wasn't much of that. And also fortunately, this is Luna's thread so I can change the subject back to her.

It's also worth pointing out how important it was to Jo that the moviemakers get Luna right. This led to the biggest casting search for these films since Harry was cast. – Eric
Not to take away from your point on the importance of getting Luna right, but that was every bit as much a business decision to generate publicity as it was any desire for artistic fidelity to the book. (It was bigger than, not biggest since casting Harry, btw.) Judging from the previews, it turned out to be a win-win situation.



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 23, 2007 7:41 am (#874 of 1030)

Actually I would describe the casting search for Luna as the biggest since Cho Chang. The movie makers looked at over 4,000 girls before casting the girl to give Harry his first kiss. And while she has one signigicant scene with Harry, I predict with 100% confidence that Cho has no important role in Deathly Hallows.

Also, Eric you state that it was very important to Jo that the movie makers get Luna right. Do you have a quote for that? The only comment from Jo that I'm aware of is after she met Evanna, she described her as "perfect".

When I saw Evanna interviewed, I thought the same thing. The girl makes a perfect Luna Lovegood! But I still predict that Luna's role in Deathly Hallows will not be significant.



History2010 - Feb 23, 2007 1:20 pm (#875 of 1030)

But I still predict that Luna's role in Deathly Hallows will not be significant.

I do too. Because for me, Deathly Hallows is going to focus almost solely on Harry, Ron, and Hermione.

I'm sure Luna would want to help, but since I don't think the Trio are going to be at school, there is not going to be much opportunity. Luna will probably show up for the last battle (assuming there is one) but I don't think her part is going to be very significant in the overall story of Deathly Hallows. There's so much stuff to cover, and plots to tie up, and Luna, while she's a great character, doesn't really connect to Harry's journey of destroying Horcruxes and killing Voldemort the way Ron and Hermione do.

And I love Evanna as Luna.



Eric Bailey - Feb 23, 2007 5:02 pm (#876 of 1030)
Edited by S.E. Jones Feb 23, 2007 7:18 pm

"Eric! ...the snogging Tom! Eew! Fortunately for witches everywhere he probably found it tedious to use panache-charm when magic-charm would do, so perhaps there wasn't much of that."

Well, remember, he was very good looking before he became bald, no nose, Michael Jackson post-plastic surgery guy. Just ask Harry, who went on about it. Smile My point is that snogging isn't the Power the Dark Lord Knows Not, what will allow Harry to overcome Voldemort. Snape proved that at the end of HBP, when all the snogs Harry got didn't do him a bit of good. The Power in question is Agape, not Eros. Jo's made that clear, I think, not only throughout the series, but when she stressed how her faith points to the outcome of the series.

And, Luna is ALL about Love and Faith. The "I believe you" and Bulletin Board scenes weren't "comedy relief". While some would consider Luna's, and Jo's, firm belief in the Afterlife something to ridicule, JO certainly doesn't. Luna has been all about those parts of Jo's faith, Love and overcoming fear of Death, that Harry has to learn.

Oh, and about the Meeting With the Goddess part of the Hero's Journey... That's not saying the girl in question is a literal goddess, just that that's the role in the Hero's Journey that she's playing, Revealer of Mystery.

"What Luna does have in common with Dumbledore, I think, is that people say they're mad, but they're really good people, as we've said before."

Ollivander and the Dumbledores have unusually long lifespans. Again, we just have to look at the Black Family tapestry and the Wictches/Wizards of the Month on Jo's site to see what the average lifespan is in the wizarding world. The Ollivanders and Dumbledores aren't the average, but noticably longer lived. Luna has the Ollivander eyes, large, moonlike, silver, reflective, and usually unblinking, which are very distinctive. Dumbledore doesn't, but his eyes do have similarities to theirs, with the way light reflects. The Dumbldores may have a little of that ancestory that makes Luna and Ollivander so different, but a little more distant than theirs.

There's also their philosophies. We're back to those two central themes of Harry's Journey, what he has to learn. What did Albus stress throughout to both Harry and Tom? The power of Love and overcoming fear of Death. Those two things just happen to be the central parts of Jo's faith, or most faiths, for that matter. Interesting that Jo introduced another character to embody that since Albus was dying. We have someone to guide Harry in the right direction. Again, Harry can't overcome Voldemort as he is, now. He has to learn, grow, and change. He's not just going to out-hex Tom.

Back to the Sidhe/Tuatha De Danaan speculation, "Hallows" isn't exactly a common term in modern times. Here's a little on the Hallows of Celtic myth...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mystical-www.co.uk/arthuriana2z/h.htm#HAL

Ah, but what are those "Otherwords" the article speaks of? Here's a little on the subject...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Here's a little more...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

As I've mentioned, Merlin and Morgan as historical figures in the Potterverse is canon, and where there's Morgan, there's Avalon, one of the most famous of the Celtic Otherwords. So, that one's definately there. We saw the entrance to another in the DoM, the Veil. We'll be visiting the DoM again, I'm certain. Jo said Dumbledore was giving her trouble while writing Deathly Hallows.

But, how to visit an Otherworld and return? Wouldn't you know, the myths provide a way...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

----------------------------------------

To enter the Otherworld before the appointed hour marked by death, a passport was often necessary, and this was usually a silver branch of the sacred apple-tree bearing blossoms, or fruit, which the queen of the Land of the Ever-Living and Ever-Young gives to those mortals whom she wishes for as companions; though sometimes, as we shall see, it was a single apple without its branch. The queen's gifts serve not only as passports, but also as food and drink for mortals who go with her. Often the apple-branch produces music so soothing that mortals who hear it forget all troubles and even cease to grieve for those whom the fairy women take.

----------------------------------------

So, if Harry's going to have to visit an Otherworld for what he needs to overcome Voldemort, it'd be nice to have someone who knows this stuff. Also, interesting the look they've given Movie!Luna, compared to a wood nymph (complete with comfortably walking around barefoot in the Forbidden Forest) years after the Fae Theory was established in Fanon.

Changing the subject, ever notice that Luna is the modern archtype Disney heroine? From The Little Mermaid onward, the Disney heroine has been a dreamer and a misfit, following where her heart and imagination lead her, regardless of what those around her think. Take Belle from Beauty and the Beast, for example. The opening song tells what the townsfolk think of her: "strange, no question", "dazed and distracted", "never part of any crowd 'cause her head's up on some cloud", "so peculiar", "with a dreamy far-off look", "rather odd", "It's a pity and a sin, she doesn't quite fit in". Sound familiar? There's more...

Belle, contrary to her seeming obliviousness, is very aware of what people think of her. She's also very protective of her father whenever anyone insults him...

---------------------------------

BELLE: Please, Gaston. I can't. I have to get home and help my father.

LEFOU: Ha ha ha, that crazy old loon, he need all the help he can get!

(GASTON and LEFOU laugh heartily)

BELLE: Don't you talk about my father that way!

GASTON: Yeah, don't talk about her father that way! (He conks LEFOU on the head.)

BELLE: My father's not crazy! He's a genius! (Explosion in background. GASTON and LEFOU continue laughing. BELLE rushes home and descends into the basement.)

BELLE: Papa?

MAURICE: How on earth did that happen? Dog gonnit! (He pulls the barrel off his waist, along with his pants.)

BELLE: Are you all right, Papa?

MAURICE: I'm about ready to give up on this hunk of junk! (kicking machine)

BELLE: You always say that.

MAURICE: I mean it, this time. I'll never get this boneheaded contraption to work.

BELLE: Yes, you will. And you'll win first prize at the fair tomorrow

MAURICE: Hmmmph!

BELLE: ...and become a world famous inventor!

MAURICE: You really believe that?

BELLE: I always have.

MAURICE: Well, what are we waiting for. I'll have this thing fixed in no time. (sliding under machine) Hand me that dog-legged clencher there... So, did you have a good time in town today?

BELLE: I got a new book. Papa, do you think I'm odd?

MAURICE: My daughter? Odd? (Appears from under machine with bizarre goggle contraption on his head distorting his eyes) Where would you get an idea like that?

BELLE: Oh, I don't know. It's just I'm not sure I fit in here. There's no one I can really talk to.

--------------------------------------

- Edited to remove one line that would have lead to innappropriate discussion. - SE Jones



S.E. Jones - Feb 23, 2007 7:21 pm (#877 of 1030)

I don't think Dd's long lifespan is any indicator that he's not 100% human. Even if the average lifespan isn't as long as 100+ years, we've still seen a few wizards who reached that mark just fine, without having the descriptions associated with Ollivander and Luna, for instance Professor Marchbanks.

I do think there might be something to the similar description given to Luna and Ollivander, though. It could be that they are related or that they both possess a certain ability or something.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 23, 2007 8:02 pm (#878 of 1030)

Back to the casting...we do know that Dan was again allowed to read with the finalists and he did have a say in who got chosen. When Evanna got the part he promptly gave her his phone number, so he must have thought it was important that she feel at home on the set. I always thought that must have been like smorgasboard- "Here, Dan- here's a hundred girls. Pick the one you like the best."

I know Jo had something to do with the search for Luna, but I can't remember what. I'll have to go back and do soem digging for that.



Eponine - Feb 23, 2007 8:57 pm (#879 of 1030)

Off-topic: Where did it say that Dan had a choice in the casting for Luna? I remember reading that he read with Evanna, but not that he had any say in the matter. ETA: And according to Jo's site, she didn't meet Evanna until she visited the set, which would have been after she was cast.

I'm not convinced that similar eyes mean that Luna and Olivander are connected. (I'm not convinced that they're not either) But I'm of the strong opinion that Luna is one hundred percent human.



Chemyst - Feb 24, 2007 5:50 pm (#880 of 1030)

The Power in question is Agape, not Eros. – Eric
Exactly. And no matter how cute or dashing Tom may have been, he had none of the agape love. Which is why the snogging image is so distressing. He came as close to the gigolo role as I care to think about when he visited Hephzibah Smith.

I think Luna is one of the few teenage girls who, right from the start, would have been able to see through the good looks and into the manipulations of a power-freak like Riddle. It took Ginny half a school year to catch on that she was being used.



Jadelollipop - Feb 24, 2007 6:46 pm (#881 of 1030)

Ginny was 11 at the time I don't think Luna would have fared that much better at that age...isn't that when her mom died (or was she younger?)...Luna still has that child like innocent faith that Riddle destroyed for Ginny..



peachespig - Feb 24, 2007 8:54 pm (#882 of 1030)

Chemyst: I think Luna is one of the few teenage girls who, right from the start, would have been able to see through the good looks and into the manipulations of a power-freak like Riddle.

I don't know, that's a tough one. On the one hand, we know that Luna has a knack for speaking uncomfortable truths. But that doesn't necessarily mean she's more perceptive than anyone else; it means she's willing to say what other people won't say, not that she necessarily knows things they don't know.

And on the other hand, we know Luna is pretty gullible about conspiracy theories and monsters that don't exist. A master manipulator like Riddle would know just how to exploit that. I would worry that all Tom would have had to do was tell eleven-year-old Luna he was a secret agent fighting against the Rotfang Conspiracy, and she would have gone right along with everything he said.



Eric Bailey - Feb 25, 2007 1:33 pm (#883 of 1030)
Edited by Kip Carter Feb 25, 2007 6:05 pm

Agreed with Chemyst, the diary wouldn't have worked on Luna. She's more perceptive about people than most. She also doesn't have the same personal issues Ginny had. Of the three main girls, Ginny's the only one that would have worked on. Hermione would have immediately started looking up anything she could find on Tom Riddle, maybe even asking authority figures. Luna would have been asking tons of questions. A couple of fics covered the subject very well on how Luna would have responded to the diary.

If you are interested, please contact Eric via email. There is a separate Harry Potter Lexicon FanFiction Forum for those interested in FanFiction and we do not allow links to other fanfiction sites. I have removed all links or references to other sites from this post. - Kip

A very key thing about Luna is her emotional self control. While she's as brave as any Gryffindor we've met, braver than most of them, actually, she's a Ravenclaw. There's a reason for that.

Gryffindors tend to really want to be admired. Ravenclaws are more about the search for truth.

Jo has called Luna the "Anti-Hermione". Hermione will back down from expressing an opinion because of peer pressure. From OotP...

-----------------------------------

"Did everyone see that Grubbly-Plank woman?" asked Ginny. "What's she doing back here? Hagrid can't have left, can he?"

"I'll be quite glad if he has," said Luna. "He isn't a very good teacher, is he?"

"Yes, he is!" said Harry, Ron and Ginny angrily.

Harry glared at Hermione; she cleared her throat and quickly said, "Erm...yes...he's very good."

"Well, we think he's a bit of a joke in Ravenclaw," said Luna, unfazed.

"You've got a rubbish sense of humor then," Ron snapped, as the wheels below them creaked into motion.

Luna did not seem perturbed by Ron's rudeness; on the contrary, she simply watched him for awhile as thought he were a mildly interesting television program.

--------------------------------------

Interesting to note how Hermione and Ginny reacted to the new girl Harry was paying attention to, like she was a threat. Again, from OotP...

--------------------------------------

"D'you mind not offending the only people who believe me?" Harry asked Hermione as they made their way into class.

"Oh, for heaven's sake, Harry, you can do better than her," said Hermione. "Ginny's told me all about her, apparently she'll only believe in things as long as there's no proof at all. Well, I wouldn't expect anything else from someone whose father runs The Quibbler"

------------------------------------

Way to go, Hermione! She doesn't realize, of course, that Luna's the person assuring Harry that he's not going insane since he can see those skeletal winged horses that Ron and Hermione don't...



Eponine - Feb 25, 2007 1:54 pm (#884 of 1030)

I really don't think Hermione and Ginny were threatened by Luna considering how Harry and Ron reacted exactly as Ginny did by jumping to Hagrid's defense.

As for the diary, Luna appears to be a lonely girl with no friends. I wouldn't be surprised if she had fallen for the diary either. She's willing to believe the impossible; I don't see why believing a diary that writes back is that far-fetched.



Chemyst - Feb 25, 2007 2:40 pm (#885 of 1030)

A master manipulator like Riddle would know just how to exploit that. – peachespig

We do not disagree on that point. My comment was that a flirting-Tom would not work with her. As lonely as she is, and while a great deal of the aloneness can be attributed to her oddness, she is not so desperate for friends that she will settle for just anyone. She knows she is weird, so she would be naturally wary of anyone who would try a flirtatious approach. I agree that a conspiracy theorist approach would have a far better chance; at least up to the point she decides they are a bad person.



xray - Feb 25, 2007 3:09 pm (#886 of 1030)

My comment was that a flirting-Tom would not work with her. - Chemyst

Aren't the unpopular girls always the ones who are most susceptible to flirting?



Catherine - Feb 25, 2007 4:43 pm (#887 of 1030)

Aren't the unpopular girls always the ones who are most susceptible to flirting? --xray

Or, perhaps they are unpopular because they don't play that social game well, and are really not susceptible to it?

I think that Luna would see beyond superficial social behavior and react accordingly.



Thom Matheson - Feb 25, 2007 4:44 pm (#888 of 1030)

Remember that the other reason Lucius gave the diary to Ginny was to affect a Weasley, and therefore get Arthur in trouble as well.



peachespig - Feb 25, 2007 5:31 pm (#889 of 1030)

Chemyst, I think we agree that Riddle would have tailored his approach to the person who found his diary. He "flirted" with Hepzibah, and with Ginny he acted like her friend -- like a confidant, an older brother maybe, and she poured out her heart concerning how she liked Harry.

I actually think in many ways Luna would have been similar. We know Ginny was lonely at 11, and we can pretty much safely assume Luna was, too. Although he would have behaved differently, I bet he also would have made Luna feel the same way Ginny did: "No one's ever understood me like you, Tom."

We shouldn't forget, either, that it's not just Riddle's charm he was using, it was his magic as well. Ginny didn't even remember the things she did; she was clearly enchanted. So it's not just a matter of personality, one also has to be able to resist magical control. Maybe Harry could have done it better than most -- but I think Luna, Hermione, most everybody would have ended up just like Ginny.



Chemyst - Feb 26, 2007 9:12 am (#890 of 1030)

Aren't the unpopular girls always the ones who are most susceptible to flirting? – xray

No. There are many and varied reasons for unpopularity. The girls most susceptible to flirting are the ones who desperately want to be popular but are not.

(I could also go on about how in the real world, a strong father-daughter relationship can go a long way to immunize a young girl against such advances by an opportunistic boy, but it's boring so I won't.)




Eric Bailey - Feb 26, 2007 1:49 pm (#891 of 1030)

As we've seen, Luna tends to objectively study people, like when she was watching Ron like he was an "interesting television program" rather than be riled by his attitude. Diary!Tom would have been subjected to that same approach. Her detatched approach to people doesn't help her socially, but it does protect her in a lot of ways.

Luna has a stronger sense of self than Ginny, and especially Hermione, do. She's not worried about fitting in, or what people think of her. Tom took advantage of Ginny's insecurities. Luna would be more of a mental chess game for Tom.

Another thing about Luna: She always seems to know what everyone she's dealing with is thinking, but no one knows what she's thinking until she chooses to reveal it. She's a lot like the young Tom in a lot of ways, but has come to a completely opposite approach and philosophy to life. A lot of this, I would guess, has to do with her upbringing.



xray - Feb 26, 2007 2:29 pm (#892 of 1030)

As we've seen, Luna tends to objectively study people, like when she was watching Ron like he was an "interesting television program" rather than be riled by his attitude.

Luna was crushing on Ron so we can't say she objectively studies people... just Ron Do you have any other examples, ones where she's not invested in that person for a particular reason?

Luna has a stronger sense of self than Ginny, and especially Hermione, do. She's not worried about fitting in, or what people think of her. Tom took advantage of Ginny's insecurities. Luna would be more of a mental chess game for Tom.

I'd bet that Luna would fall to Tom's charms faster than Ginny did, particularly at age 11. She'd be just 2 years removed from her mother's death. Gosh, she'd be extremely susceptible. Luna may write things in the diary vastly different from what Ginny wrote, but she'd sure succumb to Tom's charms very quickly. If anyone might not, it'd be Hermione, and even then I think she would despite her intelligence. Hermione had lots of fears and anxieties in her first year at Hogwarts just like every other 11 year old girl.

Another thing about Luna: She always seems to know what everyone she's dealing with is thinking, but no one knows what she's thinking until she chooses to reveal it.

There's no way to know what she's thinking as we're not privy to Luna's train of thought. But I agree that no one knows what she's thinking since she's so spaced out most of the time.

She's a lot like the young Tom in a lot of ways, but has come to a completely opposite approach and philosophy to life.

I wouldn't relate her to young Tom at all; that'd be very bad for Luna. She's not cold and calculating--she's warm and friendly, but she is a bit kooky. We might relate them based on the kook factor alone but even then, it's not even close--serial killer wins that battle hands down, particularly against someone who's just out to lunch.

I honestly feel like you're degrading Luna rather than praising her by saying she'd never do what Ginny did. That's perfectly natural and very normal for an 11 year old girl to do. To say Luna is above that makes her less human--like Tom.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 26, 2007 4:58 pm (#893 of 1030)

Jo has never verifed that Luna was crushing on Ron. If she had been, I don't think she would have been so unperturbed when he told her she had a rubbish sense of humor. If a guy you had a crush on said that, wouldn't you be more upset? And Jo has really been firm that she always had R/Hr planned out. Those anvil sized hints...why intentionally add Luna to the mix and then not build on it? She could have used Luna instead of Lavender to make Hermione jealous, if she'd wanted to reinforce Luna had a crush on Ron.



S.E. Jones - Feb 26, 2007 5:12 pm (#894 of 1030)

I never got that Luna had a crush on Ron either. I always figured her laughing too hard at his joke and her staring at him in the carriage were part of her character and the character's lack of social skills.



xray - Feb 26, 2007 5:16 pm (#895 of 1030)

I don't think she wanted to use Luna in that way, hence Lavender. But right from the get-go, Luna showed a keen interest in Ron. Maybe Jo was using this to plant an awareness seed in Hermione... that someone else is taking an interest in Ron. Who knows.

"You went to the Yule Ball with Padma Patil," said a vague voice.
Everyone turned to look at Luna Lovegood, who was gazing unblinkingly at Ron over the top of The Quibbler. He swallowed his mouthful of Frog. "Yeah, I know I did," he said, looking mildly surprised.
"She didn't enjoy it very much," Luna informed him. "She doesn't think you treated her very well, because you wouldn't dance with her. I don't think I'd have minded," she added thoughtfully, "I don't like dancing very much."
She retreated behind The Quibbler again. Ron stared at the cover with his mouth hanging open for a few seconds, then looked around at Ginny for some kind of explanation, but Ginny had stuffed her knuckles in her mouth to stop herself giggling. Ron shook his head, bemused, then checked his watch. - OotP, Page 189

Hee! Don't you just love Ginny here?

"Well, that's a good sign, I never feel you perform as well in exams if you're not a bit nervous," said Hermione heartily.
"Hello," said a vague and dreamy voice from behind them. Harry looked up: Luna Lovegood had drifted over from the Ravenclaw table. Many people were staring at her and a few were openly laughing and pointing; she had managed to procure a hat shaped like a life-size lion's head, which was perched precariously on her head.
"I'm supporting Gryffindor," said Luna, pointing unnecessarily at her hat. "Look what it does…"
She reached up and tapped the hat with her wand. It opened its mouth wide and gave an extremely realistic roar that made everyone in the vicinity jump.
"It's good, isn't it?" said Luna happily. "I wanted to have it chewing up a serpent to represent Slytherin, you know, but there wasn't time. Anyway. . . good luck, Ronald!" - OotP, page 403

Shortly after that, Hermione gave Ron a good luck kiss. I always wondered if it was Luna's actions that encouraged Hermione to give Ron that kiss.



S.E. Jones - Feb 26, 2007 5:44 pm (#896 of 1030)

See, I still don't get that Luna necessarily was showing any romantic interest in Ron in either of those passages. My brother disagrees with me (which would mean he agrees that she does show romantic interest there). I still just see this as Luna being Luna, she makes a comment in the first citation and then adds her thoughts (she wouldn't be unhappy with a date just because the guy didn't dance with her) and she's showing support for a budding frienship (at least she seems to think the friendship between Harry, Ron, Hermione and herself has already taken off) in the second citation. I guess it just goes to show you how the same sentence(s) can be interpretted in very different ways. Maybe it's just my own particular experience-based bias (I resembled an odd combination of Luna and Hermione as a girl,heck, I still do).



Chemyst - Feb 26, 2007 6:21 pm (#897 of 1030)

I'd bet that Luna would fall to Tom's charms faster than Ginny did, particularly at age 11. She'd be just 2 years removed from her mother's death. Gosh, she'd be extremely susceptible. – xray

Don't underestimate the inner strength that comes from surviving adversity. As much as Luna undoubtedly would miss her mother, she also knows she can survive without her. Luna would not "need" the approval or validation that Ginny did. The upside of being a bit anti-social is that you become far less peer dependent.

And that sort of goes along with the "is she interested in Ron" question. She has given him an opening for friendship, but she is certainly not so desperate for a boyfriend that she'd lower herself to chase him or use a love potion. And even if he were interested, he'd still have a lot of work to win her over. I can't quickly find the quote, but doesn't Luna comment that Ron can be mean sometimes?



Jadelollipop - Feb 26, 2007 7:16 pm (#898 of 1030)

The only known love potion users in canon were Merope and Romilda



xray - Feb 26, 2007 7:22 pm (#899 of 1030)

My brother disagrees with me - S.E. Jones

Yay for S.E. Jones' brother Actually, looking at Luna's very first interaction with Ron, she says she'd have gone to the ball with him. Practically the first words out of her mouth. Reading deeper, we know Padma is in her house, albeit a year her senior. I'm guessing Luna knows about Ron's predicament where Parvati had to ask her sister on Ron's behalf, so I'm thinking Luna thought about this ahead of time... she'd have gone with Ron had Ron asked her. So I definitely see some Luna->Ron attraction here.

Don't underestimate the inner strength that comes from surviving adversity. - Chemyst

But we shouldn't overestimate the wisdom of a child. Witch or no, she's still a child.



peachespig - Feb 26, 2007 7:43 pm (#900 of 1030)

I've always been somewhat on the fence about whether to interpret Luna's actions towards Ron in OotP as being indicative of any romantic interest or not. She clearly focuses on him to some extent, wishes him luck before Quidditch, watches him as if he were "a mildly interesting television program." She does the sort of things that an author could be using to set up a crush. But then there's a few issues:

1. Nothing ever becomes of it in the next book -- Luna fades into the background a little more, and Ron gets involved in a love triangle with two other girls, one of whom he is pretty clearly intended for, and

2. It's not clear to me that Luna relates to other people in a "normal" enough way for me to be able to parse her reactions as I would someone else. Standard teenage romantic behavior may just be a social construct she simply doesn't operate within. For most kids, they would know paying a lot of attention to a member of the opposite sex would be construed in a certain way, so they might not do it unless they "meant it". But maybe Luna just found Ron amusing and didn't care how anyone else construed her actions?

Chemyst: I can't quickly find the quote, but doesn't Luna comment that Ron can be mean sometimes?

Yeah. HBP, p. 310 American:

"He says funny things sometimes, doesn't he?" said Luna as they set off down the corridor together. "But he can be a bit unkind. I noticed that last year."

Things like this quote, combined with the fact that nothing came of the possible romantic hints in HBP, make me think Luna's "interest" in Ron was non-romantic or even pre-romantic, as a child would be fascinated by someone.

I have wondered, though, whether Jo intended at one time to use Luna -- the "anti-Hermione" -- in the Lavender role in HBP, and then changed her mind. Maybe because she'd grown fond of Luna and didn't want her removed from the group as a result of romantic difficulties? Or maybe because she just wanted someone shallower. Wink


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xray - Feb 26, 2007 8:03 pm (#901 of 1030)

I have wondered, though, whether Jo intended at one time to use Luna -- the "anti-Hermione" -- in the Lavender role in HBP, and then changed her mind. - peachespig

Really! I wondered the very same. Prior to OotP, we learned of Rowling's attempt at a character, Mafalda, a cousin of Ron's. She basically whitewashed the character from Goblet of Fire after quite a lot had been written. I thought that Luna was a new character created from the ashes of Mafalda but with different properties... since she wasn't Ron's cousin, she might serve as a catalyst for Ron/Hermione in a way that Mafalda couldn't due to her family ties with Ron.

But as HBP would have it, it wasn't so. Lavender became that catalyst of sorts.

I still wonder if Luna maintains any of Mafalda's character traits.



journeymom - Feb 26, 2007 8:13 pm (#902 of 1030)

Isn't Luna cool?!



Thom Matheson - Feb 26, 2007 8:17 pm (#903 of 1030)

Cool as a radish. Shall I go fix one eyebrow? Ok everyone, let us declare March 1 as Luna Lovegood Day. No school, or banks are open, and everyone has to dye an eyebrow!



Rosie Lu - Feb 26, 2007 9:31 pm (#904 of 1030)

With regards to Luna and Ron, when I first read OotP, I thought she was crushing on him. But I didn't think anything would come from it, as it seemed very clear Rowling was heading for Ron/Hermione.

Now, however, I'm not sure if Luna ever liked Ron at all. It's very possible, but it could just as easily, as others have said, been Luna's character. Also, after learning how open and truthful she is, I tend to wonder that if Luna liked someone, she'd just come out and say it. The closest I can connect that to Ron is when she says she'd like to go to the dance with him, but I'm completely undecided on this issue.



Lina - Feb 26, 2007 11:03 pm (#905 of 1030)

"He says funny things sometimes, doesn't he?" said Luna as they set off down the corridor together. "But he can be a bit unkind. I noticed that last year."

Thank you, Peachespig. I think it explains a lot. She was probably attracted by Ron being funny, but discarded him when she saw how unkind he can be. At the same time, it shows how important it is for any person to be funny and kind at the same time.



Luna Logic - Feb 27, 2007 1:20 am (#906 of 1030)

Rosie Lu: after learning how open and truthful she is, I tend to wonder that if Luna liked someone, she'd just come out and say it. The closest I can connect that to Ron is when she says she'd like to go to the dance with him, but I'm completely undecided on this issue.
That scene reminds me of the scene at Christmas when Harry asks Luna to go with him to Slughorn's party, as a friend.
Luna would have been ready to go to the Yule ball with somebody (not everyone, as some analysed above), just as friends.
I take her remarks about Padma and Ron as, she wouldn't have minded a not-flirting attitude of Ron.
All that discussion makes me ask myself if really, we are not seeing there a bit of evolution of the character, then?

Back to Rosie Lu remark: I tend to wonder that if Luna liked someone, she'd just come out and say it.
I agree, it would be very difficult for Luna NOT to say it straight... thus providing a load of embarrassment (on each side ? on one side ?)



Eric Bailey - Feb 27, 2007 6:38 am (#907 of 1030)

Actually, she said she wouldn't have minded not dancing if she'd been in Ron's date's place, not that she wanted to date Ron.

And yeah, Luna observes people. First, she had her eyes fixed on Harry, studying him. Then, Ron was being entertaining (without meaning to be). But, Luna's connection and bond was always with Harry, never with Ron.

As for what Jo intended for her, and what her role is, again, look at her name. Jo doesn't just pick names randomly (See Albus Dumbledore, Sirius Black, Remus Lupin, Rubeus Hagrid, etc). "Luna" is the name of the Moon Goddess (representing the feminine Mysteries), as well as the name of the White Queen in Alchemy. "Lovegood" is self explanatory.



journeymom - Feb 27, 2007 9:05 am (#908 of 1030)

Is it? Lovegood evokes a positive feeling. It makes me think Luna is full of good will. And knowing what we do of Tom Riddle, that he is completely incapable of love, she's a nice contrast. Though I never thought I'd be comparing Luna to Lord Voldemort.

If you were asked to characterize a fictional person, a teenaged girl, who is full of good love (as opposed to obsessive love? jealous love? weak, tepid love?) how would you characterize her? I'm not sure I'd create this girl who's a little spacey and eccentric, if not spot-on perceptive, occasionally. My Lovegood would probably go around being accepting of everybody, trying to mediate disagreements, and maybe providing love for some forlorn, neglected kid. You know, the love of a good woman who changes her man. It's a good thing, then, that JKRowling is writing the story, not me!

But do you get my point? Is Luna's fay eccentricity significant in itself? How so? How do we characterize her version of love?

Don't tell me, you've all come to this conclusion several pages back, in December. Sorry! But you know how it is, it's exciting when you get on a tangent by yourself.



peachespig - Feb 27, 2007 9:30 am (#909 of 1030)

Luna Logic: Luna would have been ready to go to the Yule ball with somebody (not everyone, as some analysed above), just as friends. I take her remarks about Padma and Ron as, she wouldn't have minded a not-flirting attitude of Ron.

Luna Logic, you know, that sounds pretty reasonable to me. "She doesn't think you treated her very well, because you wouldn't dance with her. I don't think I'd have minded," she added thoughtfully, "I don't like dancing very much." I could definitely take that as a statement that Luna sees herself as outside the whole romance game entirely, and is interested in people and spending time with them for other reasons. She's announcing herself as a girl who doesn't play the usual romantic games.

Eric Bailey: But, Luna's connection and bond was always with Harry, never with Ron.

Well, I don't think I'd go so far as to say she has a connection and bond with anybody (at least anyone we've met). She certainly teaches Harry something at the end of OotP, but then again, these are his stories; all the characters to a certain extent are defined by the things they do in relation to Harry. I don't think a moment of insight is the same as a connection. HBP could have gone otherwise, but I just didn't see it there. It seemed like the window of opportunity from the bulletin board scene has closed.

"Luna" is the name of the Moon Goddess (representing the feminine Mysteries), as well as the name of the White Queen in Alchemy.

I'd go a little simpler than that, personally. Maybe she's named Luna precisely so she can have the nickname Loony?

"Lovegood" is self explanatory.

That she's virtuous and against evil? You know, I know Jo has made some relatively obvious name hints like Remus Lupin the werewolf, but if I were to take "Lovegood" as a literal implication of her romantic ability, I think I would start giggling.

Interestingly, it's entirely possible that Luna's last name predated her creation. We have good reason to think she was created by Jo between GoF and OotP, but her last name appears as the name of a family living near Ottery St. Catchpole in the portkey chapter of GoF. I wouldn't be surprised if Jo created her, settled on her first name, and then went looking through her lists for a last name and loved the alliteration. Smile



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 27, 2007 10:17 am (#910 of 1030)

If Luna is one of the Lovegoods mentioned in GoF and I think she is, I can't see why the Weasleys would not have know the Lovegoods before the kids went to school, and Ron does not act as if he knows her. She is never mentioned at the Burrow. I can't see why Molly wouldn't have sent condolances to the widowed neighbor and kept in touch, or tried to befriend the half-orphaned child nearby, who was her own daughter's age. Bt it doens' seemlike she did, so I don't know when Luna was supposed to be getting a crush on Ron, unless it was at first sight, and he isn't even very nice to her then.

I do think Luna begins a bond with Harry, when she tells him she can see the thestrals, which is extended when she defends him in public at the greenhouses, and culminates at the bulletin board. They have a strong bond of friendhsip at that point, which Harry reaffirms next when he brushes off Romilda on the train.



haymoni - Feb 27, 2007 10:32 am (#911 of 1030)

I'm not getting a good sense of how close in proximity the Weasleys, Diggorys and Lovegoods are to each other.

When they spoke of the portkey, it almost seemed as if there were no other wizarding families in the area, but I didn't get the impression that these folks were next-door neighbors or anything.

Arthur's affiliation with Amos was not that of "Hey, neighbor, can I borrow some slug repellant?" It was a work affiliation. Working at the Ministry was what they had in common, not where they lived.

Luna doesn't seem to want anything from Harry but friendship and I think he finds that quite novel.



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 27, 2007 10:39 am (#912 of 1030)

Die Z

They have a strong bond of friendhsip at that point, which Harry reaffirms next when he brushes off Romilda on the train.

Yes, Harry refuses Romilda's offer to sit with Luna & Neville, but don't forget that sitting with them was his second choice. His first desire was to sit with Ginny.

He goes through the rest of Half-Blood Prince barely giving either Luna or Neville a second thought. He never invites either Luna or Neville to join the trio in Hogsmeade.

When Hermione told Harry he needed to get a date to Slughorn's party, his answer was "there's no one I want to invite." It doesn't occur to him to invite Luna, until he runs into her in the corridor.

And after Dumbledore's death, we are told that Harry, Ginny, Ron and Hermione were spending all of their time together.

Even after Neville and Luna had joined them fighting the Death Eaters who invaded the castle, Neville and Luna are no closer to Harry's 'inner circle' than they were at the end of Order of the Phoenix.

I think Harry respects them both and admires them for jumping in the fight, but I see no 'strong bond of friendship.'



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 27, 2007 10:48 am (#913 of 1030)

Well, he does feel a strong affection for them at the end. That's canon. I totally disagree that he does not consider them close friends. Both of them have been nothing if not helpful to him, and Harry is an incredibly loyal person, once someone has proven they deserve his loyalty.

He didn't think to invite Luna, but he didn't think to invite Ginny to the Yule Ball, either, and no one is arguing they were not friends. The common denominator in both cases, is that he was going to have to go someplace he didn't want to go in the first place.

Luna and Neville are both close friends of Harry's in my mind. Why shouldn't they be? He's going to need all the friends he can get.



peachespig - Feb 27, 2007 11:03 am (#914 of 1030)

I think at some point we run up against the problem of realism vs. the problem of writing a story. It does seem that Neville and Luna are Harry's closest friends at Hogwarts besides Ron, Hermione and Ginny circa HBP (now that the twins are gone). Yet he hardly ever spends time with them, which seems weird. I can only put it down to the demands of telling a story and not wanting to put characters in scenes where they play no role simply to remind us they are Harry's friends. They got short shrift because they had no plot roles to play, more than because Harry doesn't like them.

When I said I didn't think Luna had a special connection with anybody, I didn't mean she had no friends. I think she has a friendship with Harry, a longer-standing friendship with Ginny, and growing acceptance from Ron and Hermione, plus, from the end of HBP, apparently a good relationship with Neville, maybe strengthened by them both being outsiders.

Thing is, Harry has a lot of people who he has a connection to: he's the hero of the book. I guess I could think of 5-10 other "connections" he has with people that are stronger than the one with Luna, that's all.



Eric Bailey - Feb 27, 2007 2:32 pm (#915 of 1030)

While Luna, Neville, and Ginny aren't part of the Trio, there's a reason Jo has brought those three into the main storylines during the last two books, including the climaxes. That wasn't an accident on her part. Those three are major characters. They're not going away.

And who said the name "Lovegood" was about romance? HP Fandom is a bit too hung up on shipping, I think. There's a lot more to love than snogging. That's mainly lust, anyway. The love that Harry needs to learn, I think, is Agape. The Power of Eros didn't help him one bit in his fight with Snape, so it'll do him even less good against Voldemort. Again, the Power the Dark Lord Knows Not isn't snogging. It's the sort of love that saved Harry's life when he was a year old (Harry gets credit for taking down Voldemort then, but it was really Lily that did it). It's the sort of love Albus lived his life by.

Also, remember the Sorting Hat's song in OotP. ALL the Houses are going to be needed to overcome Voldemort (Yes, even Slytherin). The Hat didn't say "Only brave Gryffindors are needed, and only the ones that hang at the Burrow, at that". That wasn't a throwaway bit, an accident on Jo's part.

"And if that was the only example of her "faith" I'd enthusiastically agree. But Crumple Horned Snorkcacks? Wrackspurts? Heliopaths? Blumbering Humdingers (excuse any misnaming of the creatures - I don't have the books handy)? All those strike me as the wizarding equivalent of a Muggle child believing there are monsters under the bed."

Yeah, like those thestral things! That girl was actually seeing these skeletal winged horses that no one else (no one sane, at any rate) could see. That PROVES she's a nutter... Oops.

Speaking of thestrals, Luna's calm thinking and Outside the Box thinking certainly came in handy in OotP, didn't it? She was asking how they were going to get to the Ministry way back when they were trying to get into Umbridge's office. The Gryffs didn't think about that until they were in the forest and wondering what to do. While they were busy yelling at each other, it was the cool headed Ravenclaw that had worked out the solution. Not being a hothead, she patiently waited for the Gryffs to catch up with her explanation.

"I wouldn't relate her to young Tom at all; that'd be very bad for Luna. She's not cold and calculating--she's warm and friendly, but she is a bit kooky. We might relate them based on the kook factor alone but even then, it's not even close--serial killer wins that battle hands down, particularly against someone who's just out to lunch."

Well, it's a good thing Luna's not this "just out to lunch" person you're describing, isn't it?

Tom, Severus, and Luna were brilliant, creative, loners. Tom and Luna are very good at reading people, and using it. But, Luna uses her empathy for Good, to help people, while Tom uses it to use people. Tom and Severus became bitter and angry at the world, while Luna responded in completly the opposite way. Tom is looking for revenge, while Luna is forgiving and accepting. The two things that Tom lacks most, what made him into Voldemort, lack of Love and being unable to overcome fear of Death, Luna is all about.

"I honestly feel like you're degrading Luna rather than praising her by saying she'd never do what Ginny did. That's perfectly natural and very normal for an 11 year old girl to do. To say Luna is above that makes her less human--like Tom."

Ginny's circumstances were unique to her. I don't think Hermione would have been all that usable, either.

I notice one thing people bring up as an example of Luna being nothing but a nutter is her Quidditch commentary. But, Luna's commentary was JO'S final commentary on Quidditch. Jo said it was the last Quidditch match she'll ever write, so she had Luna do the commentary, because it was the kind of commentary Jo, herself, would do. So, if Luna is mentally off because of that, what does it say about Jo? Smile

There's a very good essay on the Lexicon about Luna's and Hermione's relationship. Hermione is very good about memorizing textbooks and quoting them, but she's not creative, and can't make a leap of faith. "Are you a witch or aren't you?" Hermione also worries too much about what people think of her, like when she backed down when Harry glared at her in the train scene about Hagrid's qualifications as a teacher, when she obviously agreed with Luna.

If they put their minds together, there's nothing Hermione and Luna couldn't figure out. They'd be unstoppable.



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 27, 2007 3:27 pm (#916 of 1030)

Eric Bailey - Ginny's circumstances were unique to her. I don't think Hermione would have been all that usable, either.

Hermione didn't see through Gilderoy Lockhart. While Ron and Harry were suspicious, Hermione was outlining her DADA notes using little hearts.

So, if Luna is mentally off because of that, what does it say about Jo?

Well, Jo is the one of the people who have described Luna as "completely out to lunch."



peachespig - Feb 27, 2007 5:43 pm (#917 of 1030)

Eric Bailey -- well, you obviously surmise Luna's overal significance to be greater than I do; my guess is she wasn't created with any kind of comparison to Riddle in mind. But besides that broad difference of perception, there's one thing I want to actively disagree with, regarding the Riddle possession:

Ginny's circumstances were unique to her.

I don't think this is true at all. Ginny was a normal eleven-year-old girl at a new school. Her insecurities and fears were not unique, but the kind everybody has: acceptance, loneliness at a new place, a crush, etc. I think it's precisely because her situation was so normal that what happened was so frightening.

I still maintain that Luna, Hermione, and just about everybody would have fallen prey just as much to the combination of charm and -- let's not forget -- active enchantment that Tom used. He would have had Hermione anxious to please him by demonstrating how smart she was, probably by capitalizing on her fear of failure. AndI think he would have had Luna feeling like no one had understood her that well since her mother passed away.



Sunny Baudelaire - Feb 27, 2007 7:10 pm (#918 of 1030)

Let's not forget that Harry, himself, fell for Tom Riddle's version of events when he wrote in the diary and was shown the scene with Hagrid.



Die Zimtzicke - Feb 27, 2007 9:25 pm (#919 of 1030)

Jo said Luna was out to lunch but FANTASTIC. (Emphasis mine.) Why do so many fans leave off the fantastic part?



xray - Feb 27, 2007 9:59 pm (#920 of 1030)

Why do so many fans forget she's out to lunch?



Luna Logic - Feb 28, 2007 12:48 am (#921 of 1030)
Edited by Feb 28, 2007 12:48 am

To take both sides of a character would be... wisdom? (we need perhaps all the seven books to achieve that goal )



journeymom - Feb 28, 2007 9:37 am (#922 of 1030)

I don't think anybody forgets she's out to lunch. That's what makes her Loony Luna. Remember that JKR's obsessive, detail-oriented fans are a minority. On first read (some people's only read) Luna is nothing more than this kooky, likable character. That Luna is out to lunch is everybody's first perception of her. For some it's their only perception.

I'm getting into this comparison to Lord Voldemort. I don't think JKR intends us to compare Luna directly to him, though. She does make obvious connections between Harry, Snape and Riddle, even by their appearance. But one of the important themes in the story is a person's ability love and be loved. Really, we can compare all the main characters to Riddle, and like a scientific experiment, see the results of maternal love on each characters personality. Ron can love because he was raised in a loving family. Hermione's got healthy, loving parents. Neville, like Harry, was loved by parents till he was a year old, and then raised by a crazy, loving family.

Luna, like Tom Riddle and Harry, lost a mother. By all accounts, her mother was a loving person. She died in some sort of magical accident. People have conjectured that perhaps she was working on something that will turn out to be important to Harry's story. In any case, Luna is the one female in Harry's inner circle who has lost a mother. I think JKR created her as a female example in this maternal loss theme.



Choices - Feb 28, 2007 9:47 am (#923 of 1030)

Journeymom - "Neville, like Harry, was loved by parents till he was a year old, and then raised by a crazy, loving family."

I'm not sure I see Neville's family as exactly "loving". His Grandmother is somewhat stern and unaccepting. She compares Neville to his Dad and it isn't favorable. McGonagall says that Neville's grandmother needs to be happy with the grandson she has. Neville seems to be a bit afraid of his grandmother - he doesn't want the boggart to turn into her either. She provides for Neville, but I would hardly call her "loving".



xray - Feb 28, 2007 10:06 am (#924 of 1030)

Journeymom, I agree with you mostly. I like Luna. She's fun to read. Strange as it is, some insist on elevating her status to a point where she looses her fun quirky personality and becomes a goddess of sorts.

The story behind Luna is very simple. She was a late addition to fill a void for Jo. Her main purpose in the story has been served and I seriously doubt anything more wonderful will come of her than we've already seen. She saw her mother die experimenting on something. This served the thestral plotline. Her daddy was the editor of a tabloid-like newspaper; what a perfect method of getting Harry's story out!

In a way, the entire Luna storyline also served to enhance Ginny's character development. They're good friends, Ginny introduced Luna, and Luna has no other friends even in her own house (gosh they must be supa samrt in Ravenclaw </sarcasm> ). Ginny's such a well rounded character that she doesn't exclude anyone from being her friend, even the weirdo Luna girl. Maybe that's one of the things that makes Ginny so popular.



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 28, 2007 10:17 am (#925 of 1030)

Since Eric Bailey quoted me. . .

"And if that was the only example of her "faith" I'd enthusiastically agree. But Crumple Horned Snorkcacks? Wrackspurts? Heliopaths? Blumbering Humdingers (excuse any misnaming of the creatures - I don't have the books handy)? All those strike me as the wizarding equivalent of a Muggle child believing there are monsters under the bed."

Yeah, like those thestral things! That girl was actually seeing these skeletal winged horses that no one else (no one sane, at any rate) could see. That PROVES she's a nutter... Oops.

Sorry buddy, but that is NOT a valid comparison. Thestrals exist in the books. The other "monsters" I named don't as of now.

And seeing thestrals is not about sanity, as you clearly seem to think. It's about having witnessed a person's death. So Luna's ability to see thestrals is strictly because she was present when her mother died and not indicative of any greater sensitivity or depth of character on her part.

And please don't put words in my mouth (fingers?). I have never said Luna is a "nutter". That's your word, apparently.



Steve Newton - Feb 28, 2007 10:45 am (#926 of 1030)

xray, I have to disagree. Luna is part of Harry's core group. If she was a transient she would not have been brought back in HBP. She has a key role to play in DH. I also hope to see some blibbering humdingers.



Luna Logic - Feb 28, 2007 11:09 am (#927 of 1030)

Yes, and one among many improbable Quibbler' s informations may be proved to be 1) true 2) crucial in some way to the final tasks.



journeymom - Feb 28, 2007 1:55 pm (#928 of 1030)

Choices, you're absolutely correct about Neville's family. I came to the same conclusion on re-reading my post. I'd put Neville's family somewhere between the Loving Weasleys and the abusive, hateful Dursleys. Gram Longbottom is demanding and unsupportive, but she doesn't actively hate Neville.

I'm gunning for Heliopaths to be the critter that turns out to be real.



Gatorgrad1991 - Feb 28, 2007 3:22 pm (#929 of 1030)

Journeymom: I'm gunning for Heliopaths to be the critter that turns out to be real.

Me too. I think that would be so much awesome. And can you imagine how it would look on screen in the last film?

I want one of Luna's "critters" to end up as real, and to have an impact on the fight. All the comments I've made on that subject in the past have been based on the fact that as of Book 6 they aren't real.



Choices - Feb 28, 2007 6:12 pm (#930 of 1030)

I know from personal experience that "wrackspurt" is very real, therefore I believe that some of the others may be also....if not all of them. Hang on....I think my tongue is caught in my cheek. Either that or I've swallowed one of my radish earrings.



Thom Matheson - Feb 28, 2007 7:34 pm (#931 of 1030)

Choices, no way, you are correct. I have canon evidence........Dr Suess?



TomProffitt - Feb 28, 2007 7:49 pm (#932 of 1030)

"I know from personal experience that 'wrackspurt' is very real, therefore I believe that some of the others may be also ...." --- Choices

Yes, I have been victim to wrackspurts many times myself.



Chemyst - Feb 28, 2007 9:27 pm (#933 of 1030)

Wrackspurt? Do you mean the invisible thing that floats in though a victim's ears and makes his or her brain go fuzzy? If my mind is a bit nebulous as to whether they are real, wouldn't that be proof that they are?

All those strike me as the wizarding equivalent of a Muggle child believing there are monsters under the bed. – gatorgrad
I have found that a good spray of Lysol™️ will eliminate most of them. As for those that are left, that is what we use our brooms for.



Eric Bailey - Mar 1, 2007 3:53 am (#934 of 1030)

"Hermione didn't see through Gilderoy Lockhart. While Ron and Harry were suspicious, Hermione was outlining her DADA notes using little hearts."

Lockhart wasn't a diary that was talking back to Hermione. That would have made Hermione just a little cautious. Luna, meanwhile, would have treated it as interesting, like Ron.

"Well, Jo is the one of the people who have described Luna as "completely out to lunch."

Nicely singling out that one line without the rest of it.

Again, which two characters served as Jo's voice when speaking about her faith, especially in the Afterlife? That other eccentric, Albus Dumbledore is one. Luna is the other.

And, again, regarding Luna's Quidditch commentary: "It's the sort of commentary I'd do..." So, you're declaring Jo "out to lunch"?

"The story behind Luna is very simple. She was a late addition to fill a void for Jo. Her main purpose in the story has been served and I seriously doubt anything more wonderful will come of her than we've already seen. She saw her mother die experimenting on something. This served the thestral plotline. Her daddy was the editor of a tabloid-like newspaper; what a perfect method of getting Harry's story out!

"In a way, the entire Luna storyline also served to enhance Ginny's character development. They're good friends, Ginny introduced Luna, and Luna has no other friends even in her own house (gosh they must be supa samrt in Ravenclaw </sarcasm> ). Ginny's such a well rounded character that she doesn't exclude anyone from being her friend, even the weirdo Luna girl. Maybe that's one of the things that makes Ginny so popular."

Would this be the same Ginny that introduced Harry, and the reader, to the insulting nickname "Loony Lovegood"? The Ginny that trashed talked Luna to Hermione behind Luna's back?

Ginny started being nice to Luna after a while. Of course, this was after Harry was valuing Luna.

But if Luna isn't important, doesn't that also apply to Ginny and Neville? It wasn't an oversight or accident on Jo's part to have them go with the Trio to the DoM, and then the climax of HBP. If you're going to dismiss Luna, then logically, you must dismiss Ginny and Neville, too. Those three have been grouped together in their relationship with the Trio for the last two books.

"Sorry buddy, but that is NOT a valid comparison. Thestrals exist in the books. The other "monsters" I named don't as of now."

But, none of the kids who'd not seen them believed in their existence. Hermione and Ron just thought Harry was nuts.

"xray, I have to disagree. Luna is part of Harry's core group. If she was a transient she would not have been brought back in HBP."

Or been part of the DoM battle, let alone been so important in it.

And, again, Jo doesn't just randomly pick names for her characters. Oh, for those who think that all the alchemical references in the books are coincidental, here's what Jo had to say...

"I’ve never wanted to be a witch, but an alchemist, now that’s a different matter. To invent this wizard world, I’ve learned a ridiculous amount about alchemy. Perhaps much of it I’ll never use in the books, but I have to know in detail what magic can and cannot do in order to set the parameters and establish the stories’ internal logic."



Luna Logic - Mar 1, 2007 4:44 am (#935 of 1030)
Edited by Mar 1, 2007 4:48 am

2007, JKR: "I’ve never wanted to be a witch, but an alchemist, now that’s a different matter. To invent this wizard world, I’ve learned a ridiculous amount about alchemy. Perhaps much of it I’ll never use in the books, but I have to know in detail what magic can and cannot do in order to set the parameters and establish the stories’ internal logic."

Let's try this:
Hermione is logic and Luna is a believer.
Dumbledore is logic and he is a believer.
JKR is a believer and she is logic. (She tries hard, and has good success in logic IMO).

But JKR is not a believer in anything as Luna is :
"Stephen Fry: Well there’s a good question, do you believe in magic?
JK Rowling: I’m sorry to say, because often when I answer this question I get a groan, that I don’t believe in magic.
Groan from the audience
JK Rowling: I really don’t in magic the way that it appears in book. I could be slightly corny and say I do believe in other kinds of magic; the magic of the imagination for example, and love, but magic as in waving a wand - no. I’d love to believe in it but I’m afraid I can’t." (Accio Quote, Royal Albert Hall, 2003).

--------------------

How Luna was “made” by her author:
2003 : "Stephen Fry. Luna Lovegood lets talk about Luna Lovegood ……….
JK Rowling: Yes! I don’t know where she came from but I really like Luna – really fun to write. She’s slightly out of step in many ways but she’s the anti-Hermione. Hermione’s so logical and inflexible in so many ways and Luna is likely to believe 10 impossible things before breakfast…" (Accio Quote, Royal Albert Hall, 2003).

2004 : "Can you tell me more about Rita Skeeter?
JKR (…) There is more to come on Rita. It is really enjoyable to write her and Hermione because they are such very different people. The scene in which I had Hermione, Rita and Luna together in the pub was really fun to write because they are three very different women with very different points of view. You have this very cynical journalist, you have Hermione, who is very logical, upright and good, and you have Luna, who is completely out to lunch but fantastic. I really like Luna. You have these three people who are not on each other’s wavelengths making a deal. It was fun to write." (Accio Quote Edinburgh Book Festival 2004).

----------------------------

Missing: quotes about Dumbledore a believer, and in what matters.



Jadelollipop - Mar 1, 2007 6:17 am (#936 of 1030)

The Ginny that trashed talked Luna to Hermione behind Luna's back? I assume that you are referring to Hermione's statement "Oh, for heaven's sake, Harry,you can do better than her,said Hermione.Ginny's told me all about her,apparently she'll only believe in things as long as their is no proof at all. Well I wouldn't expect anything else from someone whose father runs the Quibbler" Later on Ernie steps up to declare "it is not only weirdos who support you" For some reason people denigrate Ginny and not Hermione or Ernie (or even Lavender and Parvati who laughed at Luna). Ginny told the truth Luna believes in things that at this point have not been proven...that is not necessarily a bad thing...Called faith I think. It is true Ginny referred to Luna as Loony Lovegood but she was the one who told Harry and Neville not to run screaming but to go on in and share the carriage. "Don't be silly. said Ginny laughing, She's all right"...Had a good summer Luna? Ginny asked." This occurred at Harry's first meeting. She was already Luna's friend way before Harry valued anything about Luna. Did not mean to go off on a tangent. But we as readers know how "Out to Lunch" Luna is based on her interactions with Harry and compnay but also on how other characters perceive her. At this point in time Luna believes in things without proof. This annoys Hermione who has to have proof written in books.



Luna Logic - Mar 1, 2007 6:35 am (#937 of 1030)
Edited by Mar 1, 2007 6:37 am

Sorry about the first line of my post #935 : the quote where JKR is speaking of about alchemy is referenced in Accio Quote: "The Herald, 1998". Not 2007 at all



journeymom - Mar 1, 2007 9:56 am (#938 of 1030)

Thanks for including JKR's comments about the deal Hermione made with Rita and Luna. It's a very cool scene in the book and I'm sorry it's not included in the movie.



Sunny Baudelaire - Mar 1, 2007 10:33 am (#939 of 1030)

Eric Bailey Lockhart wasn't a diary that was talking back to Hermione. That would have made Hermione just a little cautious. Luna, meanwhile, would have treated it as interesting, like Ron.

I don't agree that either Luna or Hermione would have been any more cautious. We have canon proof that Hermione can be gullible (Lockhart) and canon proof that Luna can be gullible (people bringing the Ministry of Magic down using gum disease). I think they would have been tricked by Diary!Tom just like both Harry and Ginny were.

"Well, Jo is the one of the people who have described Luna as "completely out to lunch."

Nicely singling out that one line without the rest of it.

I posted the entire quote earlier in the thread. Please see post #852. (Would post a link if I knew how.) You've obviously accepted the "fantastic" description, but I've yet to see you acknowledge the "completely out to lunch" description.

And, again, regarding Luna's Quidditch commentary: "It's the sort of commentary I'd do..." So, you're declaring Jo "out to lunch"?

Actually Luna's Quidditch commentary was the sanest thing she's done in the books. It was sports commentary done by a non-sports fan. It's her heliopaths, crumped horn snorkaks, Rotfang conspiracy, and wrackspurts beliefs that causes Jo to call her "completely out to lunch".

But if Luna isn't important, doesn't that also apply to Ginny and Neville? It wasn't an oversight or accident on Jo's part to have them go with the Trio to the DoM, and then the climax of HBP. If you're going to dismiss Luna, then logically, you must dismiss Ginny and Neville, too. Those three have been grouped together in their relationship with the Trio for the last two books.

Neville and Luna and Ginny were grouped with the trio at the end of OotP, but not in Half-Blood Prince. It was Ginny who hung around with the trio during the summer. It was Ginny who Harry wanted to sit with on the train. It was Ginny who Harry invited to join the trio in Hogsmeade. It was Ginny who was Harry's first choice to go to Slughorn's Christmas party. When Harry left the castle to go with Dumbledore he told Ron and Hermione to "say good bye to Ginny and split the Felix Feicis with her. Then he added, contact the other DA members.

Even after seeing that only Neville and Luna responded to the DA call, Harry makes no attempt to bring either of them into his inner circle. After DD's death, we are told that Harry, Ginny, Ron and Hermione spent all of their time together. Harry never even thought to ask Neville and Luna to attend the funeral with the four friends.

The problem that I have with analyzing the books using Alchemy is that I've seen it used to "prove" that Harry and Hermione are destined to be together, I've seen it used to "prove" that Harry and Luna are destined to be together, and I've seen it used to "prove" that Harry and Ginny are destined to be together.

Clearly, Alchemy parallels are influenced by the particular ship of the theorist.



Thom Matheson - Mar 1, 2007 1:31 pm (#940 of 1030)

Of course we are all guilty of it. That is the debate, really. As you say above," Harry never thought to ask Neville and Luna to attend the funeral". That isn't written, but it fits nicely with your belief. We all want to personalize our comments as if we were in the room. The only one who knows, is Rowling, and she isn't telling. My how I love this place.

If all we had were canon evidence, rather then personal preference speculation this and all Forums would be really boring and posts would be very short.



Die Zimtzicke - Mar 1, 2007 3:01 pm (#941 of 1030)

Wait a minute...let's back up. Are we implying again that if Ginny and Harry wind up together, Luna has no purpose? Because I really hate to think that Harry can have no other female friend with purpose, besides a girlfriend. That's silly. Why is shipping coming into a discussion about Luna's possible role in the last book again anyway? I was really hoping we were going to be off that topic for awhile. Luna and Harry are close friends in my opinion, with lots of things in common, and a bond between them, but that has nothing to do with his relationship with anyone else. It just is the way I see it.

I agree that I'd LOVE to see a heliopath be the thing that turns out to be real. It would be an awesome thing to see on film.

It may even turn out that something that was once printed in the Quibbler, that Luna remembers, may prove important. If the Quibbler ever printed an article about the possibility of making multiple horcruxes, just for one example, I'm sure the Wizarding World would have thought that was insane. But I still think Luna's place in DH may relate specifically to the Ravenclaw horcrux, or the veil may come back again.



Gatorgrad1991 - Mar 1, 2007 6:00 pm (#942 of 1030)

Chemyst: I have found that a good spray of Lysol™️ will eliminate most of them. As for those that are left, that is what we use our brooms for.

# giggle* I usually favour taking the little suckers out with a can of Raid, but I live in the South where such "monsters" grow to incredible sizes. Very Happy

DZ: I agree that I'd LOVE to see a heliopath be the thing that turns out to be real. It would be an awesome thing to see on film.

Wouldn't it just? It's my preferred creature to become real, although I'd love to read exactly what a Crumple Horned Snorkack looks like.

Are we implying again that if Ginny and Harry wind up together, Luna has no purpose?

That's not the impression that I got from Sunny B's (I think) post. It wasn't about the Harry/Ginny romantic 'ship so much as a comparison of the friendships that Ginny and Luna each have with Harry. And I have to agree with her that Ginny has the edge there, mainly because of summers spent together at the Burrow and Grimauld Place.



Sunny Baudelaire - Mar 1, 2007 7:05 pm (#943 of 1030)

Die Z, I never said that Luna has no purpose because Harry will end up with Ginny.

My basic conclusion is that Luna was a late addition to Order of the Phoenix. Jo found a purpose for her there, but I firmly believe that because she was a late addition, she has no place in the Horcrux plot because that was all planned out by Jo before she even had a publisher. I believe that Jo knew what the objects were, and how Harry was going to find them long, long, long before the character of Luna Lovegood entered her head.

Some fans talk about Harry and Luna's common bond, and how she is a part of Harry's inner circle. I just don't see it that way. Harry has more of a common bond with Neville. Luna was raised by her mother, and then saw her die. Harry and Neville both lost their parents before they ever even knew them. (and I do consider Neville's parents to be "lost").

And Harry has never invited Neville or Luna to join him in Hogsmeade, eat dinner with him, go to a Quidditch match with him (during the year he was banned and was a spectator), study together at the library, visit Hagrid with him, etc. etc. etc.

Maybe I'm just not understanding what people mean when they say "Luna is a part of Harry's inner circle." By my definition it would mean that they are close friends who spend time together. Ron and Hermione are my definition of "Harry's inner circle", and the only person we've seen penetrate the trio is Ginny.



TheSaint - Mar 1, 2007 9:52 pm (#944 of 1030)

I think they mean that Luna (along with Neville) are Harry's biggest supporters. I am hoping in book 7 he comes to realize that they both laid thier lives on the line, on his order, without the aid of the lucky potion he gave to his nearest and dearest. That made them the bravest of all. Maybe Luna will be the one to switch houses? (thinking of big rumor last time around) Would be nice to be in a house where at least some people like you.



peachespig - Mar 1, 2007 10:16 pm (#945 of 1030)

DZ: Because I really hate to think that Harry can have no other female friend with purpose, besides a girlfriend. That's silly.

I agree. Fortunately, we know he'll have Hermione no matter what!

Sunny B: Maybe I'm just not understanding what people mean when they say "Luna is a part of Harry's inner circle." By my definition it would mean that they are close friends who spend time together. Ron and Hermione are my definition of "Harry's inner circle", and the only person we've seen penetrate the trio is Ginny.

Sunny, it's true that neither Neville nor Luna seemed to move in Harry's social world as much as many expected in HBP. Their roles in the growing-up plot were comparatively minor.

But, I think what people mean by "Inner Circle" is that they have been -- and remain -- active allies of Harry in the fight against Voldemort. In the early books, Harry has faced the "end of book battle" either alone or with Ron and/or Hermione. The fact that Ginny, Neville and Luna both came along in OotP, and then all 3 participated in the Battle of Hogwarts at the end of HBP, to me says that they are Harry's "battle allies" in a way that does indeed single them out.

So although you're right that Neville and Luna didn't "hang out" much with Harry, Jo did make sure to put them in that end battle for two books running, and I think that is likely to be significant. I expect the DA to have its moment in the sun in DH, and Neville and Luna (and Ginny) to be at the center of that.



Thom Matheson - Mar 2, 2007 6:47 am (#946 of 1030)

Luna's contribution for me was all preplanned by Rowling. She needed a vehicle for Harry to get the true story out about Voldemort's return. That, I believe is her purpose and contribution to the master plot. After that she just seemed to flow into what we see. I don't see her becoming a pivotal character in the last book, like I do about the trio and Ginny. She will be there with Neville as a member of the DA, but her big run is concluded for me.



Soul Search - Mar 2, 2007 7:13 am (#947 of 1030)

Thom Matheson,

"I don't see her becoming a pivotal character in the last book, ..."

I have to disagree, a bit. She appeared in HBP more than if "her big run is concluded." Her character has been developed too well for her to fade away. It might be important that she complements Hermione and can, how is it said, "see the uncomfortable truth about things."

I am not suggesting that she will have some important "pivotal" role, but I can see her being more than background.



Thom Matheson - Mar 2, 2007 8:14 am (#948 of 1030)

I know what you mean, but I look at it as I did with Dobbie in GoF giving Harry the Gillyweed. Not impact, but pivotal. Important to the finish line but not in the race. Don't know if that made sense, but like the Thestral carriage scene, her part in that for me was to validate Harry's seeing them as something real, and not his imagination.



Soul Search - Mar 2, 2007 9:56 am (#949 of 1030)

Thom Matheson,

Sounds like we are in agreement. Which means, of course, we will both be very surprised when Luna rides a crumble horned snorkack that gores Voldemort.



xray - Mar 2, 2007 9:59 am (#950 of 1030)

we will both be very surprised when Luna rides a crumble horned snorkack that gores Voldemort.

I think we're more likely to see a crumble snack cake instead.


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Eric Bailey - Mar 2, 2007 10:51 am (#951 of 1030)

Luna Logic: "JK Rowling: I really don’t in magic the way that it appears in book. I could be slightly corny and say I do believe in other kinds of magic; the magic of the imagination for example, and love, but magic as in waving a wand - no. I’d love to believe in it but I’m afraid I can’t."

Well, Luna is certainly imaginative, isn't she? She sees possibilities most of her peers can't.

Jadelollipop: A friend doesn't describe someone they're about to introduce someone to by an insulting nickname. Ginny isn't perfect, and can be rather catty sometimes. We saw that in HBP with Fleur and Hermione.

Sunny: "I don't agree that either Luna or Hermione would have been any more cautious. We have canon proof that Hermione can be gullible (Lockhart) and canon proof that Luna can be gullible (people bringing the Ministry of Magic down using gum disease). I think they would have been tricked by Diary!Tom just like both Harry and Ginny were."

There's a difference between crushing on a teacher or being influenced by your father (who are both quite physically present) and what happened with Ginny and the diary. Hermione would have had suspicions right off, and Luna would have found the diary interesting and entertaining like she found Ron. Luna also isn't ruled by her emotions.

"Actually Luna's Quidditch commentary was the sanest thing she's done in the books. It was sports commentary done by a non-sports fan. It's her heliopaths, crumped horn snorkaks, Rotfang conspiracy, and wrackspurts beliefs that causes Jo to call her "completely out to lunch"."

How'd the Sextet get to the DoM, then?

From OotP, when they're about to get into Umbridge's office to attempt to contact Sirius...

-------------------------------

"Okay," Harry said aggressively to Hermione, "Okay, if you can think of a way of doing this quickly, I'm with you, otherwise I'm going to the Department of Mysteries right now-"

"The Department of Mysteries?" said Luna, looking mildly surprised. But how are you going to get there?"

Again, Harry ignored her.

----------------------------------

A few pages later, the group is captured by Umbridge and her flunkies. Luna's thinking about something, despite the current inconvenience...

----------------------------------

There was silence in the office except for the figgetings and scufflings resultant from the Slytherins' efforts to keep Ron and the others under control. Ron's lip was bleeding onto Umbridge's carpet as he struggled against Warrington's half nelson. Ginny was still trying to stamp on the feet of the sixth-year girl who had both her upper arms in a tight grip. Neville was turning steadily more purple in the face while tugging at Crabbe's arms, and Hermione was attempting vainly to throw Millicent Bullstrode off her. Luna, however, stood limply by the side of her captor, gazing vaguely out the window as though rather bored by the proceedings.

------------------------

After escaping, once in the forest, the hot headed Gryffs are spending a lot of time yelling at each other, and at the cool headed Ravenclaw, who just calmly makes her points in response. That subject that Luna brought up several pages before is now something they're having to deal with, something the Gryffs didn't consider until right now, when they're stuck...

----------------------------

"Yes," said Harry, as his scar gave another painful prickle, "and I'm sure Sirius is still alive, but I can't see how we're going to get there to help him."

They all fell silent, looking rather scared. The problem facing them seemed insurmountable.

"Well, we'll have to fly, won't we?" said Luna in the closest thing to a matter-of-fact voice Harry had ever heard her use.

----------------------------------

This leads to another page worth of Gryffs yelling at each other and the Ravenclaw (not very time efficient of them), including who gets to go (The Trio don't want Luna, Neville, and Ginny along. Yes, Ginny). Neville makes the case for the secondary Trio.

---------------------------------

"Well, it doesn't matter anyway," said Harry through gritted teeth, "because we still don't know how to get there-"

"I thought we'd settled that?" said Luna maddeningly. We're flying!"

"Look," said Ron, barely containing his anger, "you might be able to fly without a broomstick but the rest of us can't sprout wings whenever we-"

"There are other ways of flying than with broomsticks," said Luna serenely.

"I s'pose we're going to ride on the back of the Kacky Snorgle or whatever it is?"

"The Crumple-Horned Snorcack can't fly," said Luna in a dignified voice, "but THEY can, and Hagrid says they're very good at finding places their riders are looking for."

-------------------------

Notice Luna can ride a thestral from Scotland to London sidesaddle? She's either ridden these before, or is a damn good flyer.

Notice, also, her reaction to being captured by Umbridge's goons. She's bored. They're an inconvenience. That's a key to understanding Luna.

She allows herself flights of fancy when there's nothing better to do. She's not the sort to spend a lot of time thinking about gossip or boys or clothes and whatever else the likes of Lavender are nattering on about. So, her mind wanders, as those of imaginitive people (like, say, JKR) often do. When the situation is something important, Luna is entirely focused, cool headed, and extremely sharp.

Harry has come to realize that Luna's very good to have around in these sorts of situations. When the Sextet is split in two, it's Luna who gets the Weasley siblings through alive until the group can reunite. Ron and Ginny are out of commission, Ron being loopy from a curse, and Ginny with her ankle broken by a Death Eater. Luna took out the DE that broke Ginny's ankle in a non-traditional, but very effective, way.

In the end, we get Jo's belief in the Afterlife, and that we'll see our loved ones that have died again, spoken by Luna. While you may or may not consider such a belief "out to lunch", Jo doesn't.

"Neville and Luna and Ginny were grouped with the trio at the end of OotP, but not in Half-Blood Prince. It was Ginny who hung around with the trio during the summer. It was Ginny who Harry wanted to sit with on the train. It was Ginny who Harry invited to join the trio in Hogsmeade. It was Ginny who was Harry's first choice to go to Slughorn's Christmas party. When Harry left the castle to go with Dumbledore he told Ron and Hermione to "say good bye to Ginny and split the Felix Feicis with her. Then he added, contact the other DA members.

"Even after seeing that only Neville and Luna responded to the DA call, Harry makes no attempt to bring either of them into his inner circle. After DD's death, we are told that Harry, Ginny, Ron and Hermione spent all of their time together. Harry never even thought to ask Neville and Luna to attend the funeral with the four friends."

You mean, Harry decided to take Ginny with the Trio on their Quest? Harry's filled Ginny in on all the Horcrux info? Oh wait, he didn't. Ginny's as in the dark and left behind as Luna and Neville. Sorry, but it's not a Quartet. It's still either Trio or Sextet. If Ginny's going to get back into the game, it'll be with Luna and Neville. If they're excluded for the duration, so's Ginny.

Ginny was at the Burrow during the Summer? Well, yeah, considering she lives there... Molly and Arthur were there, too.



Eric Bailey - Mar 2, 2007 10:57 am (#952 of 1030)

Continuing (ran out of space)...

"The problem that I have with analyzing the books using Alchemy is that I've seen it used to "prove" that Harry and Hermione are destined to be together, I've seen it used to "prove" that Harry and Luna are destined to be together, and I've seen it used to "prove" that Harry and Ginny are destined to be together.

"Clearly, Alchemy parallels are influenced by the particular ship of the theorist."

Actually, many of us are looking at the overall story of Harry's Hero's Journey. This isn't a romance novel. This Fandom, again, puts way too much emphasis on shipping.

DZ: "Wait a minute...let's back up. Are we implying again that if Ginny and Harry wind up together, Luna has no purpose? Because I really hate to think that Harry can have no other female friend with purpose, besides a girlfriend. That's silly. Why is shipping coming into a discussion about Luna's possible role in the last book again anyway? I was really hoping we were going to be off that topic for awhile. Luna and Harry are close friends in my opinion, with lots of things in common, and a bond between them, but that has nothing to do with his relationship with anyone else. It just is the way I see it."

Exactly. Why does Harry having a female friend he values that isn't a Weasley or "destined" for a Weasley such a problem? Why dismiss a character (and ignore the books while doing so) because she doesn't fit one's shipping choices? That's putting the carriage before the thestral.

Sunny: "My basic conclusion is that Luna was a late addition to Order of the Phoenix. Jo found a purpose for her there, but I firmly believe that because she was a late addition, she has no place in the Horcrux plot because that was all planned out by Jo before she even had a publisher. I believe that Jo knew what the objects were, and how Harry was going to find them long, long, long before the character of Luna Lovegood entered her head."

Luna was introduced at the right time. If she'd been introduced earlier, we'd have been spending four books wondering about this Ravenclaw. But, again, Jo would have had no reason to include Luna in the Sextet and the DoM journey if she was nothing important. Also notice that she was introduced just as Dumbledore was on his way out.

And, again, Jo doesn't pick names for characters randomly. Again, she had admitted to using Alchemical symbolism. Again, she's following the Hero's Journey structure with this series. Again, Jo's said her faith is very important to understanding her work, and that those that understand that can guess where she's going with this series.

What are the central things to Jo's faith? Love, and overcoming fear of Death. And, by "love", we're not talking about snogging. Snogging Ginny hasn't given Harry the power to overcome Voldemort. Snape proved that by easily trouncing Harry at the end of HBP.

No, Harry must learn something more, something a little beyond satifying the monster in his pants... um, chest. And, it's about Jo's faith. Luna's become the Voice of Faith in the books, especially now that Dumbledore's gone on the next great adventure.

Harry can't just outhex Tom. He can't overcome Voldemort with hatred and vengeance, because Voldemort is all about hatred and vengeance. Harry's not going to be able to out-Voldemort Tom. He has to learn what Tom never could. Just charging at Tom with a battle cry will get him killed. He's going to have to learn those things that Albus knew and Luna knows.

Regarding eccentricity... Jo isn't big on "normal", "conformity", and "fitting in". Look at the characters that define that in the books. The Dursleys are obsessed with it. Umbridge was determined to force it on everyone. The "normal" students, like Lavender, are presented as dull and without a thought in their heads. Hermione's giving in to peer pressure and backing down from strongly held beliefs is presented as a fault.

Jo's heart is with the eccentrics, the "wierdos".



Sunny Baudelaire - Mar 2, 2007 11:47 am (#953 of 1030)

Eric Bailey - Ginny was at the Burrow during the Summer? Well, yeah, considering she lives there... Molly and Arthur were there, too.

Harry has spent several summers with the Weasleys. Half-Blood Prince was the only time where Jo describes Harry hanging out with Ron, Hermione and Ginny. Ginny has lived at the Burrow every other summer that Harry has visited, but it is never mentioned in any other book that it was the trio + 1 spending their summer days together.

You keep comparing Luna to JKR herself. She did say in the one interview that Luna announced sports the way she would. There are far, far, far more interviews where Jo states that she is most like the character of HERMIONE. And since Jo says Luna is the anti-Hermione, then Luna is also the anti-Jo.

You keep criticizing people for describing Luna as "out to lunch", but, again you are silent on the fact that Jo herself used those exact words.



xray - Mar 2, 2007 1:53 pm (#954 of 1030)

He's going to have to learn those things that Albus knew and Luna knows.

Eric Bailey, dude, don't you think you're elevating Luna's status just a bit too much here? I like Luna too but cripes, you've deified her.

You keep criticizing people for describing Luna as "out to lunch", but, again you are silent on the fact that Jo herself used those exact words. - Sunny Baudelaire

Eric, is Luna fantastic but not really out to lunch? And Harry can't live without her because she's so brilliant and will save the world? Or is she actually just a weirdo because Jo loves weirdos?

The scene in which I had Hermione, Rita and Luna together in the pub was really fun to write because they are three very different women with very different points of view. You have this very cynical journalist, you have Hermione, who is very logical, upright and good, and you have Luna, who is completely out to lunch but fantastic. I really like Luna. - JKR (Source)

I think Luna is a fantastic, out to lunch whack job, but likable in every way. Like Jo, I really like Luna too. But be reasonable, she's not the key to defeating Lord Voldemort.



LooneyLuna - Mar 2, 2007 4:16 pm (#955 of 1030)

Luna may not be the key to defeating Lord Voldemort, but she might provide one key to the puzzle. Harry will need all his friends and their insights, not just his own or just Ron and Hermione's.

I love Luna. I love that she balances out Hermione. They are both brilliant in their own ways. I would say that Hermione is brilliant in the tangible world, and Luna the intangible. Harry will need both perspectives to succeed in his quest, I think.



Luna Logic - Mar 3, 2007 1:29 am (#956 of 1030)

Great and concise summary Looney Luna, about the plot and about the characters of Hermione and Luna
A small key, but a key (maybe, and why not a fun one?)
Harry will need both perspectives, about tangible and intangible word, yes. More of the first, perhaps ?
(I would add a third perspective, given to him by his own intuitive magic).



rambkowalczyk - Mar 3, 2007 6:39 am (#957 of 1030)

I thought the analysis of what Luna may have been doing in book 5 (done by Eric) was interesting. It does raise the question of how "out to lunch" Luna is. Everyone else in Umbridge's office is futilely fighting their captors while Luna is staring into space somewhat bored. Perhaps that expression on her face just means that she is thinking about something else in this case how to get to the MOM.

But practically speaking her daydreaming would have done no good if they couldn't escape Umbridge. Consider how she resists the Inquisitorial Squad. She does nothing. Is she actually thinking that she has a better chance of escaping by letting her captor think she's not resisting?

I doubt it. I think the only reason she didn't resist is because she got so absorbing into solving the puzzle of getting to the MOM that she forgot everything else.

This is the definition of out to lunch. Being focused on a problem that is seemingly irrevelant to others.



sstabeler - Mar 3, 2007 8:36 am (#958 of 1030)

Actually, potentially, yes, she would have a better chance of escaping. After all, the element of surprise can be useful. Can you imagine it, her captor having loosened his hold, getting complacent, then suddenly she jerks forward, breaking her captor's hold and then making a run for it. if Umbridge and co were sufficiently surprised, she might even have been able to release Harry and co too.



LooneyLuna - Mar 3, 2007 9:05 am (#959 of 1030)

Thank you, LunaLogic. And I agree that Harry will be using his "intuitive magic" to defeat Voldemort. He's already used it once to destroy one horcrux (the diary destroyed with the Basilisk fang). Luna can help Harry to have confidence or be more accepting of that little voice inside of himself.

I so want Heliopaths to be real! When faced with an army of Inferi, Luna calls upon Fudge's army of Heliopaths. One can dream, right?



Eric Bailey - Mar 3, 2007 12:38 pm (#960 of 1030)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 5, 2007 2:11 am

We don't know how Luna and the others escaped the IS, really. They were four people who were wandless (at the time Harry, Hermione, and Umbridge left) who somehow managed to overcome six armed captors. We do know that there were five spells by four people on six IS members. Someone not only got off a couple of spells, but one spell took out two IS members. And, someone had to get to a wand, first. Luna would seem to have been in the best position to have been able to make a move.

But, as to what she can teach Harry, we have Jo's own words on the outcome. Jo has said that her faith plays a large part in her writing, and that those who understand that will have an idea of what's going to happen. Jo's faith is Christianity. It's main things, like most religions, are Love and lack of fear of Death. And, again, the most important Love in Jo's faith isn't about snogging. It's the lack of that Agape Love, and the inability to overcome his fear of Death, that made Tom into Voldemort. With Dumbledore gone, Luna is in the unique position to help guide Harry to what he needs to learn, since Snape so ably demonstrated that Harry isn't close to being ready, now.

The Bulletin Board scene said a lot about faith in the Afterlife. The Veil and the Locked Room in the DoM are things we'll almost certainly see again, as they're both about Jo's faith.

One thing I've seen Luna get roundly criticized on and Ginny praised for is how they react to things. Luna choosing her fights, fighting when it's something important like Death Eaters (to defend people), but not letting petty insults get to her is seen by many as her not standing up for herself, while Ginny assaulting anyone verbally, physically, and magically who even slightly annoys her is seen as proper behavior. But, what does Jo's faith have to say about this? In an unrelated topic in another HP Forum, someone brought up some passages that I think apply here.

Oh, I'm not promoting a religion, BTW, just using these to illustrate the values of Jo's faith, which applies because of what SHE has said on the subject.

I removed the four quotes from the New Testament being that I felt that their inclusion here could threaten to bring religion into the discussion. You are welcome to send Eric Bailey an email requesting those quotes if you so desire. - Kip Carter 2:11 am PST (Forum time) Mon 5 March 2007

Earlier in the thread, I quoted the Prayer of St. Francis, which puts Jo's faith in poetic terms. This is something Harry needs to learn, and Ginny can't help him learn it by her example, as her example is pretty much the opposite of it. Same with Ron, really. Hermione lacks faith. This just happens to be something Luna can be very helpful with.

And Harry WILL grow, be more than what he is, now. That's the whole point of the Hero's Journey. You're not the same as when you started. Jo's faith, as well as what has been strssed throughout the series, gives us hints as to HOW Harry will grow.



Choices - Mar 3, 2007 7:29 pm (#961 of 1030)

Wonderful post Eric, I really enjoyed reading it. :-)



Rosie Lu - Mar 4, 2007 1:52 am (#962 of 1030)

Well, now I'm curious, so I went to look this bit up:

We don't know how Luna and the others escaped the IS, really. They were four people who were wandless (at the time Harry, Hermione, and Umbridge left) who somehow managed to overcome six armed captors.

Ron says on how they escaped:

"Couple of Stunners, a Disarming Charm, Neville brought off a really nice little Impediment Jinx," said Ron airly, now handing back Hermione's wand too. "But Ginny was best, she got Malfoy - Bat Bogey Hex - it was superb, his whole face was covered in the great flapping things."

It doesn't mention anything about them getting their wands back, which now has me wondering if they were wandless at all? We know Harry and Hermione were, but were the other four? Ron doesn't focus on that when Harry asks how they got away, he only mentions the spells they obviously did with wands. So now I'm thinking they had their wands the whole time.

Back to Luna... I think she will be important in the seventh book. I've seen many posts in this thread over the last few days that go from "no role at all" to having a huge "Dumbledore-like" role in DH, and I disagree with both

Luna will be important, IMO, but she won't be the key to the end of the series. She's going to be important much like Neville and Ginny will be. I don't see any other reason for having those three help out at the end of OotP and HBP, other than to hint that they will have a role in DH that helps the trio.



Anna L. Black - Mar 4, 2007 2:48 am (#963 of 1030)

Rosie Lu, I couldn't agree more



xray - Mar 4, 2007 12:04 pm (#964 of 1030)

Rosie Lu, great point! Ron talks about Neville and Ginny but nothing of Luna, so we can safely assume she had very little to do with masterminding the breakout.



Eric Bailey - Mar 4, 2007 12:30 pm (#965 of 1030)

xray:

Ron specified the spells Neville and Ginny used, Neville's because it was impressive, and Ginny's because it was against Draco. Nowhere did he say that he and Luna did squat. Ron described five spells used against their six captors. Neville's and Ginny's spells account for two. If Ginny did those three other spells, too, Ron would have said so.

I think it wouldn't have made sense for Umbridge to disarm Harry and Hermione and let the others keep their wands. She was planning on getting rid of all six of them, judging from her comment that Hogwarts would be free of any Weasleys.

We also have their performances in the DoM battle to consider. It was Luna that got Ron and Ginny through that one alive. She's an able fighter, and obviously as brave as any Gryffindor, more so tham most Gryffs we've met. Notice the only Gryff students that have gotten into any of the fights against Death Eaters have been Harry's two best friends, one of the best friends' sister, and Neville. Where's the rest of the House?

Luna possesses all of the best Gryffindor qualities, yet she's a Ravenclaw. I'm curious as to why she was sorted there instead of Gryffindor. Of course, she possesses all the best Ravenclaw qualities, too, being highly intelligent. She values "wit without measure", certainly, but above everything? She doesn't possess the more negative qualities of Gryffindor House, the arrogance, the tendency towards bullying, the need to be admired by others. But then, neither did Dumbledore.



Jadelollipop - Mar 4, 2007 2:08 pm (#966 of 1030)

Actually Harry and Hermione had their wands taken because they were the two in Umbridges office. then the other 4 were brought by the IS -Draco pocketed Harry's wand when he went to get Snape...Ron,Ginny, Neville and Luna were all gagged...I think they had their wands but did they use non verbal spells or get the gags off? The Weasley free zone just means she would probably expell Ron and Ginny



xray - Mar 4, 2007 3:48 pm (#967 of 1030)

Nowhere did he say that he and Luna did squat. - Eric Bailey

I never said that. You think Luna was some brilliant mastermind behind their escape from Alcatraz, I mean, the inquisitorial squad, but I say she's not.

But then, neither did Dumbledore.

Hee! So Luna is Dumbledore? This is the Luna we all know and love:

"Daddy sold it to them," said Luna vaguely, turning a page of The Quibbler. "He got a very good price for it, too, so we're going to go on an expedition to Sweden this summer to see if we can catch a Crumple-Horned Snorkack."

Hermione seemed to struggle with herself for a moment, then said, "That sounds lovely."

Ginny caught Harry's eye and looked away quickly, Grinning. - OotP, page 848

She's not some brilliant mastermind who's gonna take Dumbledore's place; she's loony. :p



Die Zimtzicke - Mar 4, 2007 5:26 pm (#968 of 1030)

I agree totally that she will not take the place of Dumbledore, although they do have things in common. But why does it prove she is loony, if her father got a lot of money for an article, then decided to use it to actually go on a hunt to see if they could really find a crumple-horned snorkack? I'm sure lots of people who thought those guys looking for that supposedly extinct ivory-billed woodpecker in the southern United States were loony, too, but guess what? They found the darned thing.

I have to thank xray for the quote, though. I always thought Ginny grinned and Harry grinned back, but that's not there. So Harry must not have thought it was a funny as Ginny and Hermione did. Good for him!



xray - Mar 4, 2007 10:37 pm (#969 of 1030)

Glad I could help, DZ! Harry and Ginny catch each other's eye quite often in the books; it's understandable that you probably mixed that one up with this quote from PoA: Ginny caught Harry's eye, and they both turned away to hide their laughter.



Eric Bailey - Mar 5, 2007 11:37 am (#970 of 1030)

xray:

Again, Jo's heart is with the eccentrics, not the "normal" folks (the Dursleys, Umbridge).

Remember the "I'd like to say a few words" bit of Dumbledore's speech at the opening feast in the first book? You're defining Luna entirely by the eccentricity, and forgetting literally everything else. Like Albus, there's more to her than eccentricity. So, explain her cool head during the latter chapters of OotP, where she was completely focused. Was working out how to get to the DoM, calmly and cooly, when the Gryffs were too busy yelling at each other to figure anything out an accident or oversight on Jo's part? How about her raising the question way back when they were trying to get into Umbridge's office? To dismiss Luna as some sort of idiotic nutjob who's just there for "comedy relief" requires literally ignoring the last several chapters of OotP.

I'm not saying she has the experience Albus had after 150 years. But, she does have faith, love, and the lack of fear of Death that he was always stressing. She's the one we have left to help Harry understand that. And yes, we can expect that to be something Harry needs to understand. Do you really think he's ready to take on Tom as he was at the end of HBP? Again, Snape cleaned Harry's clock. What would Tom do? Or Bella?



frogface - Mar 5, 2007 11:45 am (#971 of 1030)

I think you're both ignoring certain aspects of her personality. She is out to lunch, and theres no denying that because J.K.R has said it. So debating that is a bit silly really. But J.K.R has also said shes fantastic, and her taciturn nature may or may not have helped Ron, Ginny, Neville and her escape but it certainly seemed a more sensible apporoach when compared with the struggling that was getting the others nowhere

We cannot argue that Jo doesn't like her - she clearly loves her. But that doesn't mean Luna will be pivotal. She'll be kept around to play a part in Deathly Hallows I'm sure, whether it will be as big as Ginny's or Neville's I'm unsure. Ginny is Harry's girl and so that clearly gives her a big role (in my opinion anyway) Neville is the alternate prophecy boy and thats bound to play some kind of part in the story before the end. Luna could be connected to some kind of after life, plot line via The Veil. But we can't really know for sure until July my friends Sad



TomProffitt - Mar 5, 2007 12:00 pm (#972 of 1030)

I think that when we talk about Luna's role in future books we ought to go back and look at what Jo said on her web site about Dean Thomas.

Jo had a great back story and development ideas for Dean, but she chose not to tell that story. She felt Neville's was more important and there wasn't room for everything (at least not if she wanted a reasonable pace. Compare the work of Robert Jordan, a dozen thick novels and almost no plot progression).

I'm sure that Jo has a lot of stories she could tell about Luna as she seems to know all of her characters very well. But, I think she will choose not to tell Luna's stories for the same reason she chose not to tell Dean's. There are other more important characters whose stories need to be told instead. Characters like Neville, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny.

Luna will remain in the story, but her major role has passed. Anything we see will be from a distance, like the story of Tonks & Remus.



journeymom - Mar 5, 2007 3:56 pm (#973 of 1030)

It's pretty neat that there are so many of JKR's secondary characters whose full stories we'd like to read.



Chemyst - Mar 5, 2007 4:37 pm (#974 of 1030)

I'm not saying she has the experience Albus had after 150 years. But, she does have faith, love, and the lack of fear of Death that he was always stressing. – Eric

When I read that, I imagined a 4 year-old Albie Dumbledore as having the emotional maturity of a 14 year-old Luna. It is easy to see that these characters share similar character traits, even though the character quirks are received so differently; Dumbledore's grace & finesse makes him eccentric, while Luna's bluntness in expression makes people uncomfortable.

When you read biographies of famous people, you frequently find they had awkward childhoods. For instance, when Beatrix Potter, (author and illustrator of Peter Rabbit and a series of similar stories,) was the age of Luna in HBP, she wrote her journal in a secret code. That is very Luna-esque. While Luna is interested in peculiar animals, Beatrix was obsessed with fungi and algae. No one was taking her technical papers seriously, so she had to have her research presented to some Royal Botanical Society by an uncle.

In that light, there is quite a bit of hope for Luna.
I can still hope that even though JKR will finish "Harry Potter" this summer, that the Deans and Lunas of the wizarding world may someday get a book of their own.



Hoot Owl - Mar 5, 2007 4:41 pm (#975 of 1030)

Going back to the quote for a moment, I thought that Harry and Ginny were grinning about Hermione's struggle not Luna's statement.

Personally I like Luna being a bit off center! I believe there will be a significant role for her in the last book, but it will not be to replace Hermione or Ginny. They will also have their role in the fight.

As for figuring out rideing the thestrals, remember Ron,Hermione and Ginny couldn't see them. It seems silly to blame them for not suggesting them!



Luna Logic - Mar 6, 2007 1:43 am (#976 of 1030)

Chemyst: when Beatrix Potter, (author and illustrator of Peter Rabbit and a series of similar stories,) was the age of Luna in HBP, she wrote her journal in a secret code. That is very Luna-esque. While Luna is interested in peculiar animals, Beatrix was obsessed with fungi and algae. No one was taking her technical papers seriously, so she had to have her research presented to some Royal Botanical Society by an uncle. In that light, there is quite a bit of hope for Luna.
I really appreciated your information, Chemyst, because, when my children were small I read (while translating) Beatrix Potter to them, and they were big fans. But I was unaware of all the background of the author.
Indeed, that gives a perspective on Luna’s character, which I would not have thought. Just a thought, to consider such a future it would be needed that Luna has already, not only thought, but carried out certain things (writing, inventions…) like the young Beatrix. Who knows, perhaps she is like one or the other of her parents in those things?



Rosie Lu - Mar 8, 2007 4:29 pm (#977 of 1030)

I can still hope that even though JKR will finish "Harry Potter" this summer, that the Deans and Lunas of the wizarding world may someday get a book of their own.

I would love books on the other characters. I'd especially love a book on the Weasleys, the Longbottoms and the Lovegoods. They'd be so interesting and provide such fun back story for other wizarding families. I don't think that will happen, but it would be really cool.

The Lovegood story must be fascinating; we'd get to find out just how eccentric her father is (for him to be running the Quibbler), we'd get to meet her mother and we'd learn about young Luna growing up.



Eric Bailey - Mar 10, 2007 5:31 am (#978 of 1030)

"I'm sure that Jo has a lot of stories she could tell about Luna as she seems to know all of her characters very well. But, I think she will choose not to tell Luna's stories for the same reason she chose not to tell Dean's. There are other more important characters whose stories need to be told instead. Characters like Neville, Ron, Hermione, and Ginny."

She's of the same importance as Neville and Ginny. There's a reason those three have been grouped together during the previous two books. She wouldn't have been part of the DoM mission, otherwise. OK, so she's not a Gryffindor. The Gryffs have an overly inflated opinion of themselves compared to the other Houses, anyway. When the Sorting Hat was telling them what they need to overcome Voldemort, it didn't say "Only brave Gryffindors are needed, and only ones that hang at the Burrow, at that." It said all four Houses were needed, which means not only does Ravenclaw need represented, so does Hufflepuff and, yes, Slytherin.

"Luna will remain in the story, but her major role has passed. Anything we see will be from a distance, like the story of Tonks & Remus."

We still don't know what her mother was working on at the time of her death. Maybe it was an old Ravenclaw artifact? But, regardless, Harry as he is at the end of HBP can't vanquish Voldemort. He needs more than what he's got. Given the importance of faith to Jo, he's going to need some intelligence that Hermione, with her memorizing textbooks approach, can't entirely provide. That's been a huge part of Hermione's problem throughout the series, her inability to have faith in anything not in a textbook, and a lack of confidence in herself.

"When I read that, I imagined a 4 year-old Albie Dumbledore as having the emotional maturity of a 14 year-old Luna. It is easy to see that these characters share similar character traits, even though the character quirks are received so differently; Dumbledore's grace & finesse makes him eccentric, while Luna's bluntness in expression makes people uncomfortable."

And Albus had 150 years to get like that. A lot of people still didn't like Albus's quirks. Harry's first impression was that Albus was mad, for example. It's just that after all those years and accomplishments, beating Grindelwald, the discoveries in Alchemy, his quirks are usually overlooked. I say "usually" because, as we saw on CoS and OotP, people, especially at the Ministry, were quick to turn on him and declare him mad at the slightest provocation.

But, geniuses tend to have their quirks. Look at Da Vinci or Einstein. Brilliance is never "normal", so it gets that sort of reaction from the Dursleys and Umbridges of the world. Walt Disney managed to combine his rich imagination, quirks, and brilliance into a legendary career. But, you look at Walt's background, and there's the troubled background, again.

"As for figuring out rideing the thestrals, remember Ron,Hermione and Ginny couldn't see them. It seems silly to blame them for not suggesting them!"

But, it's an example of Luna bringing something to the table none of the rest could. And, she was the one thinking about how to get to the DoM way ahead of everybody else, who didn't consider the question important enough to consider until they were standing there in the forest and were like "Uh, now what do we do?"



Fishcakes - Mar 10, 2007 7:41 am (#979 of 1030)

Eric, they were all thinking of a way to get to the DoM while all of them were standing in the forest.

“Yes,” said Harry, as his scar gave another painful prickle, “and I’m sure Sirius is still alive, but I can’t see how we’re going to get there to help him.”

They all fell silent, looking rather scared; the problem facing them seemed insurmountable.

“Well, we’ll have to fly, won’t we?” said Luna, in the closest thing to a matter-of-fact voice Harry had ever heard her use.

[snip]

“The Crumple-Horned Snorkack can’t fly,” said Luna in a dignified voice, “but they can, and Hagrid says they’re very good at finding places their riders are looking for.”

Harry whirled round. Standing between two trees, their white eyes gleaming eerily, were two Thestrals, watching the whispered conversation as though they understood every word.

She thought of them because she could see them. While this is indeed something that Neville, Ron, Hermione and Ginny could not bring to the table, it was not because of some amazing act of forethought or genius on Luna's part. Also, it was Ginny who informed the group that more would come because Harry and Hermione were covered in blood.

They all brought things to the table.

I do consider Ginny slightly ahead in importance that Luna, because she is Gryffindor, a Weasley, Harry's love interest and we have been told that she will do some pretty impressive stuff in DH. I hope that Luna plays a strong role as well, but I'm on the fence as to whether or not she will, as she was pushed onto the back burner in HBP. So close to the end of the series it might not be good.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed, though!

I don't think any of us are going to get anywhere trying to compare Luna to Dumbledore. Luna is Luna, quirky, out to lunch, different, blunt, fantastic and much more. We don't need to keep trying to raise characters importance or to deify them. Maybe she will one day end up like Dumbledore, maybe she will still be believing in completely nutty things and running her father's newspaper. If there is one thing about Luna's character, it is that she hasn't really changed or grown in the books, unlike Neville, Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. This could possibly be an indication that she will not really change much in the future as well.



TomProffitt - Mar 10, 2007 7:47 am (#980 of 1030)

Eric, when I said that Jo has already told Luna's story I did not mean that I believed that she would fade completely into the background. What I meant was that Luna had a major plot significance in OP because she could connect Harry with a magazine publisher. That was her major plot significance.

Luna's character will remain an influence in Harry's life and still take part in the action. Jo has chosen a few characters to receive a bit more detail in their lives than others. Ron and Hermione are obvious as they are Harry's best friends. Ginny will be necessary to develop as she is Harry's girlfriend, although she does not seem to be getting as much "print time" as Ron & Hermione (at least to me). Neville's story has been developing from book one and Jo's telling it so we can compare the hero (Harry) to the normal boy (Neville).

I don't doubt that there are other characters than the four Gryffindors I've mentioned who will impact Harry and the plot. I just don't think think that Jo has enough space to tell all of their stories in great detail and maintain a reasonable pace to the main plot. I believe that Luna's time in spotlight has passed.

P.S. If you're going to quote me, please, credit me; particularly if you are going to quote other posters at the same time.



Choices - Mar 10, 2007 10:07 am (#981 of 1030)

Eric - "The Gryffs have an overly inflated opinion of themselves compared to the other Houses..."

I don't think this is true at all. It may appear so because the story centers around Harry, Ron and Hermione - they are Gryffindors and we see much of the story from their point of view, but that does not necessarily mean that kids from other houses are not just as proud. The story does not center on them and we don't hear their thoughts and attitudes about their houses, but there is fierce competition among the houses in Quidditch and to win the House Cup and I'm sure each house is just as proud of their team and their accomplishments during the year as are the Gryffindors.

Eric - "We still don't know what her mother was working on at the time of her death."

Luna tells Harry that her mother liked to experiment and that one day one of her spells went wrong and she died. It does bring to mind Snape and his inventing spells - evidently one never went as badly wrong as to kill him. It sounds as if Luna's mother was an intelligent and gifted witch, and that she met with an unfortunate accident.



Die Zimtzicke - Mar 10, 2007 8:06 pm (#982 of 1030)

I no longer think the article in the Quibbler was Luna's important contribution to the plot. I have my reasons for thinking that, which I don't think I can go into here at this particular time. But my gut feeling now is that she must have some other purpose as well.



Eric Bailey - Mar 10, 2007 11:48 pm (#983 of 1030)

DZ: I know what you're talking about, and agreed, her importance doesn't relate to the Quibbler.

Fishcakes: Check the scene where they're trying to get into Umbridge's office. Luna first raises the question of how to get to the DoM right there, and is ignored.



frogface - Mar 11, 2007 10:05 am (#984 of 1030)

As Fishcakes pointed out, Luna's character hasn't really developed much since she was introduced.

In any good story the more prominent characters should have what is called a Character Arc - which means that they have changed in someway by the end of the story. If they haven't changed then there isn't much point in creating them as a character. Unlike Fishcakes I don't see this as a sign that Luna will stay in the background or that her significant role has passed. JKR is a good writer and understands better than anyone that characters need to have Character Arcs in order to have value. So I think Luna will certainly be present in DH - in what capacity I can't say but we'll notice her and she will grow or change in some way.

Will she be as important as Ginny though? I doubt it. My personal opinion is that Ginny has been elevated now. Her character has grown and changed alot as the series has progressed. More so than Ron or Hermione I'd say. She's not as prominent as them, but I personally see her as being more prominent than Luna or Neville.



Fishcakes - Mar 11, 2007 2:00 pm (#985 of 1030)

Eric, it's always useful to post the canon you speak of, I found it, but it took a while. Sometimes I forget what a big book OotP is.

'We'll have to use Umbridge's fire and see if we can contact him,' said Hermione, who looked positively terrified at the thought. 'We'll draw Umbridge away again, but we'll need lookouts, and that's where we can use Ginny and Luna.'

Though clearly struggling to understand what was going on, Ginny said immediately, 'Yeah, we'll do it,' and Luna said, 'When you say "Sirius", are you talking about Stubby Boardman?'

Nobody answered her.

'OK,' Harry said aggressively to Hermione, 'OK, if you can think of a way of doing this quickly, I'm with you, otherwise I'm going to the Department of Mysteries right now.'

The Department of Mysteries?' said Luna, looking mildly surprised. 'But how are you going to get there?'

Again, Harry ignored her.

'Right,' said Hermione, twisting her hands together and pacing up and down between the desks. 'Right… well… one of us has to go and find Umbridge and - and send her off in the wrong direction, keep her away from her office. They could tell her - 1 don't know - that Peeves is up to something awful as usual

Ah, context!

The thing with this discussion is that Ginny and Luna have very little clue as to what is actually going on. They aren't talking about about going to the MoM, Harry is threatening Hermione with it. The main discussion point here is trying to get into Umbridge's office to use the fire. Then they would decide if they are going to the Ministry. Luna's comments are some what random and, at that time, unhelpful (not because she is useless or anything, but just because she doesn't understand what's going on yet.) Of course, all hell breaks loose, and they don't get a chance to bring it up again until the forest.

It doesn't change the fact that ALL six of them where in the forest with out a clue of how to get to the DoM.

They all fell silent, looking rather scared; the problem facing them seemed insurmountable.

Then Luna saw the Thestrals, and we have a solution. Still no amazing forethought or genius on her part. Though she was useful, it's likely Harry would have spotted them eventually but we don't know how long it would have been.

Unlike Fishcakes I don't see this as a sign that Luna will stay in the background or that her significant role has passed.

Frogface, I do think Luna will have a part to play, I'm just not sure if it's going to be as huge as some people make out! I think there is the possibility that she will only be as prominent as she was HBP, but I think her role will be more important than that. I am definitely holding out for more!



MickeyCee3948 - Mar 13, 2007 9:36 am (#986 of 1030)

I believe that Luna will finally stand up to the members of her house at a crucial time. She will remind them that if Voldemort wins then they are all in trouble. Her standing up(for Harry)will convince the other members of her house that she is right. This is the part I see for her in DH's. Very little more, Sorry but JM2K's.

Mickey



Muggle Doctor - Jul 7, 2007 8:35 am (#987 of 1030)

Catching up late at night after a long absence.

1) I love Luna as she is in the books - off her tree, but suddenly very sharp and cool in a crisis. Blowing the model of Pluto up to stun the DE with the debris is a very Muggle thing to do. I hope we see that in the film. I really, really hope we get to see film!Luna unleashed. If not in OOTP, then in HBP. Please, Jo; exert your creative control, cut her loose for at least one battle and show us why she's in Ravenclaw.

2) While this thread isn't about the films, I KNOW that seeing the way Evanna Lynch plays Luna Lovegood is going to alter the way I see the book character. In that respect I'm glad the film comes out before DH does - I want to review the History of Luna As We Know It first.

3) The diary. Luna would have been a very hard target.

Harry is insecure because of his central role, because he's been separated from the Wizarding World for so long and under such circumstances that for all practical purposes he might as well have been Muggleborn, and because partway through CoS he's still being blamed for all the attacks and is grateful for anyone to tell him anything.

Hermione is insecure because she's a Muggle-born girly-swot and suffers the performance anxiety that comes from being both a high achiever and a 'fish out of water' (Muggle-born); even at the beginning of her sixth form, she is still wringing her hands over the possibility of getting all "Troll" grades, when in fact almost everything (except the one important thing) was "Outstanding".

Ron is insecure because he lives under the shadow of his brothers; just as Ginny lived under the shadow of those same brothers PLUS Ron (and had the added burdens of her first year at Hogwarts and her enduring crush on Harry to boot).

Neville, had he got the diary, would have been insecure because of his grandmother, his parents' fate, his poor performance thus far as a wizard ("almost a Muggle")... Easy pickings.

But what's Luna insecure about? She was very sad about her mother's death, but she knows she will see her again AND her relationship with her father tends to compensate. Yes, she is lonely and somewhat friendless, but in comparison to Ginny, she's a beloved only child who isn't in the shadow of high achievers (the brothers who are older than the twins or Percy). Nor does she have to fit into a new world like Hermione. She seems more self reliant. And less vulnerable. Ultimately she might have been taken too, but it would take a great deal more effort.



Die Zimtzicke - Jul 7, 2007 9:53 pm (#988 of 1030)

Luna acts vague, but she can always snap to when it's needed. I think letting someone from another house into his inner circle was a good move for Harry. He needs another point of view at times. I think Ravenclaw will matter a lot in DH...whether it's Rowena herself, the hourcrux, or the House. Luna is the key to that. I see her as having some role that WILL be important.



Denise P. - Jul 8, 2007 6:08 am (#989 of 1030)

I hope Luna has a larger role. I have always liked the character and was hoping she had a larger role in HPB. I agree, it was a wise move on Harry's part to include her on his inner circle and in the end, it will prove out to be an important one. This is based on not a whole lot more than wishful thinking on my part.



xray - Jul 8, 2007 8:03 am (#990 of 1030)

But if her role becomes bigger, don't you think it'd destroy the character? Her aloofness is what attracts us to her character; making her more important would detract from her appeal. I hope she stays the same.



Hagsquid - Jul 8, 2007 9:05 am (#991 of 1030)

She already has an important role in my opinion. She was one of the ones who went with Harry to the DoM, and she fought quite bravely while there.



Chemyst - Jul 8, 2007 9:26 am (#992 of 1030)

But if her role becomes bigger, don't you think it'd destroy the character? - xray

Before I know whether or not I agree with you, I'd need to know what you were thinking when you said "bigger." If bigger means she gets a lot more dialog and folks started listening in earnest, then yes. But if bigger means she gets to do something more important than pointing out thestrals, then no, not necessarily. A skillful author should be able to give her an important role without losing the essence of her character.



xray - Jul 8, 2007 10:01 pm (#993 of 1030)

By bigger I mean expanded. The more dialog she gets the more believable she may become, lessening her out to lunch characterization. This is one of the primary things that draws the Luna lovers to her.



Mrs Brisbee - Jul 9, 2007 3:18 am (#994 of 1030)
Edited Jul 9, 2007 4:18 am

Luna acts vague, but she can always snap to when it's needed. I think letting someone from another house into his inner circle was a good move for Harry. He needs another point of view at times. I think Ravenclaw will matter a lot in DH...whether it's Rowena herself, the hourcrux, or the House. Luna is the key to that. I see her as having some role that WILL be important.-- Die Zimtzicke

I agree. I think Luna's important because she is one of those characters who can't be judged by her cover. Given her show of ability in the DA, she would be the last person who I would choose to be on my team in a fight, but it turned out in a battle she was one of the best to have along. Her calmness allows her to be cool and collected when under fire. Also, her unique outlook and belief in the outlandish might be absurd, but it can be appreciated without having to buy into it. The Rotfang Conspiracy alone almost made HBP worth its cover price.

I also like that she is a Ravenclaw. The books waver between Evil Slytherin versus All Encompassing Good Gryffindor, with those other two houses on the sidelines doing the cheering, and the idea of Unity Makes Us Stronger because Together We Can Defeat Voldemort. Luna is the only carry-over from the DA who is not in Gryffindor. I feel sure she kept her prominence because she has an important role to play in DH.



Die Zimtzicke - Jul 9, 2007 11:40 am (#995 of 1030)

I like the theory that the epilogue is written by Luna for the Quibbler. I think it's cute.



TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 10, 2007 9:49 am (#996 of 1030)

" the theory that the epilogue is written by Luna for the Quibbler"

And what theory might that be?



Die Zimtzicke - Jul 10, 2007 8:22 pm (#997 of 1030)

To go into more detail, since I guess I was unclear before, there is a theory going around on several forums I visit that the epilogue of DH will be from Luna's point of view, and that she will be writing a story for the Quibbler. I don't agree with it entirely, but I think it would be interesting.



legolas returns - Jul 11, 2007 10:21 am (#998 of 1030)

I wonder how many "special" theories she would discuss. After all The MOM is a vampire and has a lot of wonderful creatures at his command. Bless



haymoni - Jul 30, 2007 3:12 pm (#999 of 1030)
Edited Jul 30, 2007 4:12 pm

I just love her - nuff said!

Edit: Oooh - I'm post 999!!



Neville Longbottom - Aug 6, 2007 9:49 am (#1000 of 1030)

Luna was awesome again. "Well, I think the answer is, that a circle has no beginning."


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Remi - Aug 9, 2007 4:58 pm (#1001 of 1030)
Edited Aug 9, 2007 5:58 pm

Yes, Luna was awesome again. "That's right Harry... come on, think of something happy..." Loved that her patronus was a rabbit.

[Good lord, I'd rather remember a password instead of having to answer questions from a door-knob any day!!! Luna (all Ravenclaws infact) must be brillant.]



Finn BV - Aug 9, 2007 5:40 pm (#1002 of 1030)
Edited Aug 9, 2007 6:40 pm

Yeah -- doesn't it say something about Gryffindor and Slytherin, requiring passwords to enter, though? Hufflepuffs have it quite easy too -- I think JKR implied they have to tickle the pear, like you enter the kitchens. I think the fact that you need to answer a question to enter the Ravenclaw common room really says something about the Sorting -- and I would feel so bad if that one kid was "Sorted too soon," as DD said, and was completely stupid.



spinowner - Aug 10, 2007 11:38 am (#1003 of 1030)
Edited Aug 10, 2007 12:39 pm

I haven't read this thread, but I think Luna would make a good central character for a spin-off book. It could be called "The Adventures of Luna Lovegood".

My idea for the opening sentence: You don't know about me without you have read a book by the name of "Harry Potter and The Order of The Phoenix" but that ain't no matter. ;o)



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 10, 2007 12:31 pm (#1004 of 1030)

I would have given anything to have Luna included in the epiloge, even if it were just one sentence. I loathed the epilogue, but that would have made it a bit better. That and some of that inter-house unity we heard about that never quite materialized.



Madam Pince - Aug 10, 2007 12:42 pm (#1005 of 1030)

I thought it was awesome that more was "expected" of the "smart kids" in that they had to answer a question rather than just remember a password! That really gave me a chuckle.

I think the absence of Luna in the epiloge is one of the biggest disappointments of the series for me. I was very fond of her character right from the start, and I'm anxious to know what became of her.



Chemyst - Aug 10, 2007 12:51 pm (#1006 of 1030)

spinowner,
You tells the truth, mainly. There was things which you stretched, but mainly you told the truth.



TomProffitt - Aug 10, 2007 12:57 pm (#1007 of 1030)

spinowner, Chemyst, I haven't read that book in 25 years, I'm feeling rather good about myself to have recognized it.



Jenniffler - Aug 10, 2007 1:12 pm (#1008 of 1030)
Edited Aug 10, 2007 2:44 pm

Am I right in assuming Luna's gonna catch a big old magical catfish, filled with treasures, rather than sticking to gulping plimpies?

I just rented on DVD The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn with Elijiah Wood, Courtney B. Vance and Robbie Coltrane (who pretends to be English, what a hoot!,) otherwise I might have missed out on the joke.



Madam Pince - Aug 10, 2007 3:23 pm (#1009 of 1030)

Jim Dale plays the Englishman in a version I saw recently (filmed in the '70's or '80's), for what that's worth. The minute I heard his voice, I jumped up and said "HEY!" I didn't realize he was an actor until then -- guess I thought he just read books for a living...



Remi - Aug 10, 2007 5:37 pm (#1010 of 1030)
Edited Aug 10, 2007 6:38 pm

By the way Madam Pince, in the most recent webchat (not the interviews with Meredith Viera) Jo said that Luna becomes a naturalist and later in life marries the grandson - or was it great-grandson? - of Newt Scamander (author of Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them). Oh - I may be a little off, but you should be able to find it on the scholastic website.

Not 100% satifying, but I'm holding out for the Encyclopedia Smile



Madam Pince - Aug 10, 2007 6:32 pm (#1011 of 1030)

Ooooo! Thanks for that, Remi!



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 10, 2007 7:49 pm (#1012 of 1030)

Totally off topic, and I admit it, but rent Disney's "Pete's Dragon" if you want to see Jim Dale give a hoot of a performance as a strangely sympathetic con man.

Back on topic...I don't care what Jo says in her interviews, about Luna or anything else, since so many things she said in the past didn't come to pass. If it's not in the book, I don't buy it. I don't even buy some of the things that are IN the book, to tell you the truth, because they are so confusing.



journeymom - Aug 10, 2007 9:02 pm (#1013 of 1030)

Oh, I am so with you on that, Die Zim! Lololol!



Remi - Aug 11, 2007 1:26 pm (#1014 of 1030)
Edited Aug 11, 2007 2:26 pm

Here's where the transcript of the chat I mentioned earlier can be found if you're interested:

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I think there are some inconsistencies with this info and what she said in the Viera interviews, but since this is the LUNA thread, I'll keep my rather lengthy opinions about that out of this post (Besides, I just HATE criticizing Jo).



Muggle Doctor - Aug 15, 2007 7:11 am (#1015 of 1030)

The quote is (and it is relevant):

Luna became a very famous wizarding naturalist who discovered and classified many new species of animals (though, alas, she never did find a Crumple-Horned Snorkack and had, finally, to accept that her father might have made that one up).

I wonder if Xeno Lovegood made up Snorkacks and took Luna hunting for them in order to try to take her mind (both their minds?) off her grief over Mrs Lovegood's death, and to bond with her a little better now that he's her only surviving parent. His clumsy, dotty, bizarre, but ultimately loving way of trying to help... (I'll write the fanfic one day, I swear.)



Madam Pince - Aug 15, 2007 10:20 am (#1016 of 1030)
Edited Aug 15, 2007 12:35 pm

Don't forget to put in the part about how her "butterbeer caps" necklace was a craft project that she did with her Mom right before Mom's unfortunate experiment... (That's my favorite imaginary Luna idea -- I can't remember who came up with it originally...) I look forward to your fan-fic! (I'm allowing myself to read them now -- I quit after reading a few, years ago, because I caught myself getting stories mixed up with canon, and it's really confusing enough as it is... )



João Paulo Costa - Aug 15, 2007 2:57 pm (#1017 of 1030)

One of the things I loved about Luna in HD was her eulogy when Dobby was being buried. Actually, all of that scene is beautifull, specially the wizards putting clothes on the elf to signify his freedom.



Pigwidgeon - Aug 19, 2007 9:28 pm (#1018 of 1030)

I haven't seen this elsewhere, so here goes:

I thought it curious that Luna's patronus was a rabbit. It fits quite well. There are many tales about the lowly rabbit, seeming so innocent and helpless, and turning out to be crafty. But one of the more telling legends comes from Japan, about the Rabbit on the moon. Supposedly, you can see the shape of a rabbit on the full moon (here I always thought it was a face, heh.) In a nutshell, a Japanese diety disguises himself as an old man and goes to earth. Other animals offer things to the man, who seems sick and needs help. Rabbit is not a good hunter or gatherer, so he ultimately offers himself. The deity places the rabbit on the moon as an award. I remember reading somewhere about a Chinese deity who had a white rabbit pet at her home on the moom as well.



Wanda - Aug 20, 2007 1:45 am (#1019 of 1030)
Edited by Aug 20, 2007 2:45 am

I thought Luna's patronus was supposed to be a hare.



Chemyst - Aug 20, 2007 12:27 pm (#1020 of 1030)
Edited Aug 20, 2007 1:30 pm

Rabbits burrow and live in groups. If in danger, they'll try to hide in a hole. Hares are more solitary creatures and often live in depressions under dense vegetation. If in danger, they'll be more likely to try to outrun it. A major difference is the birth — Rabbits are born furless with eyes closed, Mother Rabbit makes a nest of moss & old fur, and her babies are called bunnies. Hares are born with fur and eyes open, Mother Hare pretty much drops them wherever and the young hare is called a leveret.

In Luna's case, the word that comes to mind is harebrained, meaning so senseless as to be laughable. Roget’s II: The New Thesaurus, Third Edition. 1995. lists among the synonyms: absurd, foolish, idiotic, lunatic, mad, nonsensical, preposterous, silly, unearthly, loony, loopy. Slang : balmy, dippy, dopey, wacky. See ABILITY, KNOWLEDGE. 2. Given to lighthearted silliness: empty-headed, featherbrained, flighty

According to WorldWideWords.org, "the reference is pretty clearly to the apparently stupidly senseless behaviour of hares in the mating season." It continues, "Approach the term through mad March hares and you will get the idea."
Now that might make for am interesting entry in a PotterWorld Encyclopedia if we were to get a little more background on Luna and Dean, but until then, I'll leave that for the 'ship thread.



Wanda - Aug 20, 2007 1:32 pm (#1021 of 1030)

Thanks Chemyst... that was why I made the distinction between Luna's patronus being a hare, not a rabbit... definitely not the same thing in my experience. Hares are much tougher and more solitary creatures, a bit like Luna, and less likely to hide in a dangerous situation. A rabbit patronus would seem wrong for her, as I think of them as being much more cuddly and timid.

Good point about 'harebrained' too...



Die Zimtzicke - Aug 30, 2007 2:39 pm (#1022 of 1030)

Does anyone have any idea why Luna never seemed worried about her father probably went to Azkaban after Harry's escape. Yet, despite their apparent closeness, Xeno is never mentioned by Luna after the incidents at Malfoy Manor.



haymoni - Aug 30, 2007 4:15 pm (#1023 of 1030)

I could see Xeno & Luna being connected somehow - like Luna would know that her father was in Azkaban, but that he was still alive - so she wouldn't worry.

She's able to deal with the task at hand - the battle - without being caught up in the drama.

And then we never hear from her after she helps Harry get out of the Great Hall.



Mrs. Sirius - Aug 30, 2007 9:21 pm (#1024 of 1030)

Boy, we really need that encyclopedia! No rush Jo, enjoy your well earned rest.

We are anxiously waiting...., we waited for the books, we'll keep waiting.



Solitaire - Jul 6, 2008 10:17 am (#1025 of 1030)
Edited Jul 6, 2008 11:19 am

With all due respect, Mrs. Sirius, I think she has rested long enough! LOL In my reread of DH, I really had to giggle when I read the first few paragraphs of Chapter 30, "The Sacking of Severus Snape."

Alecto Carrow has just touched the Mark on her arm, when Harry hears a loud bang, and she hits the floor. "I've never Stunned anyone except in our D.A. lessons," said Luna, sounding mildly interested. "That was noisier than I thought it would be."

LOL Noisier than she thought it would be! I howled when I read that line, imagining her deadpan delivery of it!

Yes, Jo ... please hurry up with that encyclopedia. Hogwarts: A History would be even better, as it is sure to have a thorough account of all important points of the battle for Hogwarts ... and hopefully a full account of all the stuff the D.A. kids (minus HRH) pulled under Neville's leadership.

Solitaire



Choices - Jul 6, 2008 5:29 pm (#1026 of 1030)

Yes, personally I will not be satisfied with anything but a history of Hogwarts that goes back to the very beginnings and gives every minute detail of what went on up to the present time. I don't think that's asking too much. :-) Oh, and I want it NOW!



Solitaire - Jul 6, 2008 5:59 pm (#1027 of 1030)

Absolutely! A dictionary or encyclopedia is great, but I really would prefer she give us some of the books the kids had to have ... Hogwarts: A History is a must. I'd also like to see Standard Book of Spells, A History of Magic, Home Life and Social Habits of British Muggles, and any others she cares to write.

Solitaire



Solitaire - Mar 11, 2010 7:33 pm (#1028 of 1030)

I was just poking around in OotP and found Luna's mention of Heliopaths. The Lex describes a Heliopath as A spirit of fire; huge flaming creature that gallops across the ground burning everything in its path. Sounds a lot like Fiendfyre, doesn't it?



Madam Pince - Mar 17, 2010 10:02 am (#1029 of 1030)

Yup, it does indeed! (I have nothing to add, but I just didn't want you to feel like you were posting all by your onesies...)



Solitaire - Jul 7, 2010 7:27 pm (#1030 of 1030)

LOL Madam Pince! I just now came in and found your post ... and mine! I was looking for another thread that Odo mentioned and have been "cruising" group folders.


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