The Biggest Surprise of Deathly Hallows

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The Biggest Surprise of Deathly Hallows

Post  Lady Arabella on Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:54 pm

The following is an archive of material originally posted on the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum, hosted by World Crossing, which ceased operations on April 15, 2011.
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Re: The Biggest Surprise of Deathly Hallows

Post  Lady Arabella on Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:00 pm

The Biggest Surprise of Deathly Hallows

freshwater - Apr 6, 2008 9:14 am Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Apr 27, 2008 4:39 pm

This new poll will run from 4-6-08 to 4-20-08. The original idea for this poll came from Mona Amon, in Oct. of '07. Thanks, Mona!

Please indicate your top 2, or 3 answers....or only 1, if you wish.

What was the biggest surprise as you first read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?

1) Kreacher turning out to be such a helpful and loyal character.

2) Albus Dumbledore having been good friends with Grindelwald.

3) Snape having been childhood friends with Lily Evans, before their going to Hogwarts.

4) Snape's patronus and his love for Lily.

5) Harry using the Imperio curse --repeatedly!-- in Gringotts.

6) Harry using the Crucio curse on Amycus Carrow.

7) Hearing only one sarcastic remark from Snape.

8 )Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch".

9) Molly dueling/killing Bellatrix.

10) Hearing Harry claim to be the true master of the Elder Wand.

11) Ron's leaving &/or returning to rescue Harry.

12) Something else: ____________________________ (please tell).

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azi - Apr 6, 2008 9:56 am (#1 of 41)

Hmm, 5 and 6. I still feel that using Unforgivables means you stoop as low as the Death Eaters themselves.

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Solitaire - Apr 6, 2008 10:16 am (#2 of 41)

For me, 2 & 8! Especially 8!

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Anna L. Black - Apr 6, 2008 1:06 pm (#3 of 41)

I agree with Solitaire 2 (DD friend with GW), 8 (Molly calling Bella 'bitch'), and, with less impact - 10 (Ron leaving and returning). 10 was less a surprise because I really expected to see a betrayer among the Order, and Ron leaving seemed to fit that category, in a way (well, not a real betrayer, but one who deeply dissappointed Harry...).

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I Am Used Vlad - Apr 6, 2008 1:27 pm (#4 of 41)

I also think it is 2 and 8, but for me 2 was the biggest surprise.

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freshwater - Apr 6, 2008 3:08 pm (#5 of 41)

It's really hard for me to narrow it down to 2 or 3...but here they are:

#2 DD being friends w/Grindelwald....wouldn't have imagined it in a million years.

#4 Snape's patronus...I had, after all, predicted in a poll that Snape's patronus would be a Komodo dragon (a big,ugly, nasty lizard that eat small deer)...could I been more wrong?

#6 Harry using Crucio....his using Imperio surprised me, but it was needful at the moment and temporary....his use of Crucio was deliberate and he 'really meant it'.....but I must admit that, despite my surprise, I nearly cheered out loud for his defense of Prof. McGonagall's honor.

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haymoni - Apr 6, 2008 4:09 pm (#6 of 41)

10 was the biggest surprise for me. I actually had to go back to HBP to read the Tower chapter to find where Draco had disarmed Dumbledore.

She's so sneaky, that Jo!

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wynnleaf - Apr 6, 2008 5:24 pm (#7 of 41)

I had thought we were being set up to believe that Unforgiveables were Really Extremely Wrong, and that Harry didn't have it in him to do them effectively -- for instance that he couldn't really want to hurt someone that badly for a crucio. So JKR having Harry use Unforgiveables, especially a torture curse, and in such circumstances as to make it seem justified, was a shock.

So 6 and 5 -- 6 more than 5.

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shepherdess - Apr 6, 2008 6:35 pm (#8 of 41)

2-Dumbledore's friendship with Grindelwald, and 12-the three Deathly Hallows. Even though we'd seen all three items before, I had no idea they would turn out to be what they were.

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katrira - Apr 6, 2008 6:35 pm (#9 of 41)

6 & 5. Imperio might have been unavoidable, but the Crucio just seemed only out of anger, not need.

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geauxtigers - Apr 6, 2008 6:42 pm (#10 of 41)

I'm going with 8, 2, and 11 and that's starting with the biggest surprise! I don't think anyone saw Molly calling out Bella coming! I know I was yelling out loud for that one!

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Potteraholic - Apr 6, 2008 6:50 pm (#11 of 41)

In order of appearance, nothing more, nothing less.

1) Kreacher turning out to be such a helpful and loyal character.

3) Snape having been childhood friends with Lily Evans, before their going to Hogwarts.

8 )Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch".



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Hogwarts Class of 85 - Apr 7, 2008 12:32 am (#12 of 41)

6 - I thought he wouldn't try again after Bellatrix in the ministry, followed by 8

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Mrs Brisbee - Apr 7, 2008 3:37 am (#13 of 41)

12: Dumbledore and Snape betraying the Order, which endangered Harry, Ron, and Hermione before they could even start their secret mission, and got Moody murdered.

6: Not happy at all with Harry using Crucio. I too thought he was done with that after Bellatrix.

12: Harry naming his son after Snape-- What the--?

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Julia H. - Apr 7, 2008 4:02 am (#14 of 41)

The biggest surprise? What about the identity of R.A.B.? :-) Just kidding...

Seriously, I did not expect to read about dark secrets in DD's past, but the really big surprises are all 12 for me:

12: Draco being the true master of the Elder Wand.

12: The question of how good characters use Unforgivables: not simply the fact that Harry used two of them but rather the unanswered question whether the good guys killed the bad ones using the AK curse or whether they used something else which was somehow distinguished from the curse LV used all the time. Molly for example. (We are never told.) I was very glad that Harry did not want to AK LV. Perhaps it is more like a question than a surprise but anyway.

12: Snape being apparently forgotten after the victory (dead in the Shrieking Shack).

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journeymom - Apr 7, 2008 8:54 am (#15 of 41)

8 ) Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch". Go, Molly! Didn't know you had it in you!

11) Ron's leaving Harry and Hermione. It was so disappointing. It makes sense, but it was really shocking.

12) Snape being apparently forgotten after the victory (dead in the Shrieking Shack). -Julia H.

Yes, this. Snape's death was virtually certain. If he turned out to be a good guy I thought for sure he'd have some sort of posthumous public acknowledgement. Per canon there was only the private moment between Harry and Albus Severus (two bravest men) to let us know Snape had been publicly vindicated. Again, a surprising disappointment.

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PeskyPixie - Apr 7, 2008 1:19 pm (#16 of 41)

What was the biggest surprise as you first read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?

2) Albus Dumbledore having been good friends with Grindelwald.

8 )Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch". (The Magical and Muggle worlds share curse words? Who knew?!)

12)Snape being apparently forgotten after the victory (dead in the Shrieking Shack). -Julia H.

Honourable mention goes to: 7) Hearing only one sarcastic remark from Snape. We didn't know when we first dashed through the pages of HBP that that was the last we'd get to see of our snippy Snape.

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Good Evans - Apr 7, 2008 2:00 pm (#17 of 41)

6 - I still find it hard to believe.

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Elanor - Apr 8, 2008 12:17 pm (#18 of 41)

5 and 6 together: Harry using Unforgivable Curses again, especially the Cruciatus Curse.

12 - Fred's death.

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Verity Weasley - Apr 8, 2008 4:43 pm (#19 of 41)

Lots of surprises there, but the biggest would have to be 9 - I was sure that Neville would be the one to finish off Bellatrix. Also, 10 - I never would have expected Ron to leave.

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Nicholas Schouten - Apr 8, 2008 8:56 pm (#20 of 41)

In order as listed on poll:

8 ) Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch".

9) Molly dueling/killing Bellatrix.

12) The death of Hedwig.

-Nick

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Madam Pince - Apr 9, 2008 3:50 am (#21 of 41)

I thought almost all of these were real surprises, (except the stuff about Snape and Lily, because I *knew* that... ) but if I stick with a more "technical definition" of surprise (ie: something that made me go "Oh my gosh!!! What the heck???!!!") then it would have to be 12. Something else -- Finding out that Draco Malfoy was the master of the Elder Wand. I totally missed that, and like someone else said, had to go back and re-read the end of HBP to get it completely. (Actually, I don't know -- does that vote fall under #10 - Hearing Harry claim to be master of the Elder Wand? Whichever... Anyway, it was the sentence she wrote about Draco that floored me, and I think that came first before Harry made his claim, didn't it?)

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mona amon - Apr 9, 2008 4:00 am (#22 of 41)

I don't even remember suggesting this poll! BTW, thanks for reviving the polls, Freshwater!

I think 2) Dumbledore's friendship with Grindelwald and 1) Kreacher turning out to be so helpful and loyal.

Draco being master of the Elder wand floored me as well, but I'm voting for only the 'long term' surprises, not those that happened only in DH, if anyone knows what I mean.

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Orion - Apr 9, 2008 6:50 am (#23 of 41)

2, DD's friendship with Grindelwald, it was also the most interesting plot and most intriguing mystery. LOL Draco was master of the Elder Wand! Can you imagine what he would have done with it?

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Liz Mann - Apr 9, 2008 7:48 am (#24 of 41)

2, 6 and 8 for me. 8 was brilliant! I was going to say 5 instead of 2, but in the end I do think it was necessary, even though I was surprised.

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Madam Pince - Apr 9, 2008 11:00 am (#25 of 41)

You know, I just thought of another one, which maybe isn't technically in DH: 12.-- something else -- JKR's post-release interview revelation about Dumbledore's "more-than-friendship" relationship with Grindelwald.

I just finished listening to the audio version of DH, and I swear I must be totally thick, because I still see absolutely nothing that points to that. I know lots of people felt it was obvious, but I still disagree. If JKR had not said what she did, I would argue it 'til the cows come home. So, as it is, ... yeah, huge surprise. Way bigger than "Draco as master of elder wand."

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Orion - Apr 9, 2008 12:38 pm (#26 of 41)

I didn't get it either, but I never do. Zelmia said "what, it was so obvious" and I thought, hello? Too subtle for me.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Apr 10, 2008 9:58 am (#27 of 41)

8 Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch".

2 Albus Dumbledore having been good friends with Grindelwald.

12 JKR's post-release interview revelation about Dumbledore's "more-than-friendship" relationship with Grindelwald.

12 Bathilda Bagshot turning into Nagini.

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Liz Mann - Apr 10, 2008 11:00 am (#28 of 41)

The original post says the question is about the biggest surprise as you first read the book, does the post-book revelation about Dumbledore count?

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Chemyst - Apr 10, 2008 5:22 pm (#29 of 41)

The original post says the question is about the biggest surprise as you first read the book, does the post-book revelation about Dumbledore count? ~ Liz
I do not think it should. How can we be surprized by what is not in canon?

=======================================


Were it not for the internet and this forum, I would have been absolutely floored by #3, Snape & Lily as childhood friends. The first time I heard that being speculated, I thought it was ludicrous. But… by the time DH came out, I'd heard enough whacko theories to suspect even that was not only possible, but 50/50 likely.

So I am answering #8 from among what is listed, and the fill-ins for #12 are a tie between (a) Dumbledore's role in that cockamamie Seven Potters Escape Plan and (b) that the hallows were introduced so late in the story and that Harry's invisibility cloak was so much more than it appeared, or disappeared, or … you know what I mean!

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Michael Franz - Apr 10, 2008 8:13 pm (#30 of 41)

8 ) Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch".

When I read that, I thought Molly had suddenly Polyjuiced into Sigourney Weaver. Smile

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Dryleaves - Apr 14, 2008 1:07 am (#31 of 41)

2) Albus Dumbledore having been good friends with Grindelwald. I never got the impression that they had a personal relationship.

6) Harry using the Crucio curse on Amycus Carrow. I never thought Harry would do that and I didn't like it.

The following was not exactly a surprise, but more of a "yes, of course!" moment. 4) Snape's patronus and his love for Lily. Before DH I had only read the books once and never speculated much in what was going to happen, at least not in details, but when I read this I felt a bit stupid, as it was rather obvious. Going on about how horrible a person Harry's father was, he never mentioned anything about Lily to Harry, ever...

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freshwater - Apr 20, 2008 11:16 am (#32 of 41)
Edited Apr 20, 2008 11:58 am

Here are the results of this poll:

What was the biggest surprise as you first read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows?

1) Kreacher turning out to be such a helpful and loyal character.2 votes = 3%

2) Albus Dumbledore having been good friends with Grindelwald. 12 votes = 19%

3) Snape having been childhood friends with Lily Evans, before their going to Hogwarts. 2 votes = 3%

4) Snape's patronus and his love for Lily. 1 vots = 1.5%

5) Harry using the Imperio curse --repeatedly!-- in Gringotts.4 votes = 6%

6) Harry using the Crucio curse on Amycus Carrow. 9 votes = 13%

7) Hearing only one sarcastic remark from Snape. 1 vote (here you are, Pesky!)= 1.5%

8 ) Hearing Molly call Bellatrix a "bitch". 13 votes = 20%

9) Molly dueling/killing Bellatrix.2 votes = 3%

10) Hearing Harry claim to be the true master of the Elder Wand.2 votes = 3%

11) Ron's leaving &/or returning to rescue Harry.3 votes = 4.5%

12) Something else: ______ (please tell). This option was the top vote-getter, no matter which way you look at it. If we don't count the 2 votes for the post-release outing of DD by JKR, there are 14 votes = 21.5% of the votes. If we do count the 2 votes for DD' outing, there are 16 votes = 24.5% of the votes. If we split the difference, option 12 got 23% of the votes.

The responses for # 12 are as follows:

2 votes for the surprise of the DH items having been seen previously, but having had no idea of their true importance/roles

2 votes for Snape and DD betraying the OotP and endangering HP

1 vote for the naming of Albus Severus Potter

2 votes for Draco being the master of the Elder Wand (I think these could have been counted in w/#10, but as the posters mentioned them as #12, that's how I counted them)

1 vote for the use of Unforgiveable curses by good-guys (could have been counted in with #5, 6 or 9, but were not)

3 votes for the forgetting of Snape in the Shrieking Shack after the victory

1 vote for Fred's death

1 vote for Hedwig's death (Yeah, me too, Nick S.)

2 votes for the post-release outing of DD by JKR

I hope folks are OK with this version of tallying...I am NOT a math whiz and so I won't take the time to calculate things out 87 different ways. I see the polls as a fun, 'quick & dirty' way to get an insight into fan views and opinions, and to hopefully promote continued discussion on the HP Lex forum. I will never pretend that these polls --in either their creation or their results-- are remotely scientific. Please know that, while my tone may sound angry, I'm not at all....I'm just trying to be clear.

The results were kinda all over the board --which may reflect upon the construction of the poll...too many choices?-- and I feel that I've written enough here. I would love to hear any comments or analysis of the results!

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PeskyPixie - Apr 20, 2008 3:37 pm (#33 of 41)

You don't sound angry at all, Freshwater. Thanks for all the effort you're putting into the polls. They're a lot of fun!

I just can't believe that I'm the only one who was shocked by the near absence of 'Snappy Snapey' in DH.

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painting sheila - Apr 20, 2008 4:58 pm (#34 of 41)

Shoot! I missed voting!

Thanks Freshwater for all of your hard work!

She

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freshwater - Apr 23, 2008 2:26 pm (#35 of 41)

I'm surprised that there has not been more discussion about the results of this poll. Here's what I took from the results....do you agree?

Highest vote-getters for "biggest surprise in DH":

20%...Molly called Bella a 'b*tch'

19%...DD being friends w/Grindelwald in his younger years

13%...Harry using the Crucio curse on Amycus Carrow

This shows me that we fans expect our 'good guys' to act like 'good guys', and we are surprised when they don't....of course, comments showed that we don't necessarily disapprove of their actions...we're just surprised.

The next highest vote-getters were:

6%...Harry using the Imperio curse --repeatedly-- in Gringotts

4.5%...Ron's leaving Harry and Hermione

Again, we are surprised when characters we like do something we consider wrong....or at least questionable.....I suppose that's not really surprising.

Finally, what do you think of the write-in votes? Surprise for Snape's body being left in the Shrieking Shack --or at least, unmentioned by JKR-- after the victory got 3 votes, equal to the surprise at Ron's leaving. Are there any other write-ins that caught your attention?

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Mrs Brisbee - Apr 24, 2008 3:46 am (#36 of 41)

I'm surprised that Chemyst's and my write in vote about Dumbledore and Snape betraying the Order didn't get more votes. I was so shocked I literally dropped my book. But then, it was a write in answer instead of one of the choices, and there were a lot of surprises in DH to choose from.

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rcs - Apr 24, 2008 3:37 pm (#37 of 41)

What about Dobby's death? That totally shocked me.

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freshwater - Apr 24, 2008 5:22 pm (#38 of 41)

rcs, Dobby's death got a lot of votes on the poll about the "saddest thing in DH", a poll that ran at the same time as this one, I believe.

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mona amon - Apr 24, 2008 7:35 pm (#39 of 41)

One surprising thing I forgot- who would have thought that one of the Horcruxes would be destroyed by Crabbe of all people?!

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Liz Mann - Apr 25, 2008 5:16 pm (#40 of 41)

Or that Crabbe would get too big for his boots and turn on Malfoy for that matter?

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freshwater - Apr 25, 2008 10:43 pm (#41 of 41)

Or that Crabbe would be powerful enough to use Fiend Fire! Although, he wasn't able to control it, was he?
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