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Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 1201 to 1245)
Elanor Sun May 15, 2011 2:18 am
Green Eyes - Jul 4, 2004 4:20 pm (#1201 of 2916)
I'd love to know the ages of some of the people who 'ship Harry and Hermione. I would venture to say that they are mostly girls who are in their teens. I say this because when I was a teen, about 25 years ago, I had the same reaction to Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker in the Star Wars trilogy. My reasons for wanting the two characters together was because I was mad for Mark Hamill and projected my feelings onto his character, Luke and the only female character in the movies, Leia. Boy, was I wrong. Okay...now you can throw the tomatoes at me!
As for the R/Hr article at Sugarquill, I thought the points that the author made were very well thought out and researched and reflected my own feelings from reading the novels all along. I believe the author of that article is in her 30's if I am not mistaken. I am in my 40's now and have alot of experience with both life and literature to draw from.
Hermione mothers BOTH Harry and Ron, the point that was well made in the R/Hr article on Sugarquill was that Ron ENJOYS verbal sparring with Hermione and is not bothered by it as Harry is. Harry doesn't like it, and as stated in the article it's because he was dominated by the Dursleys which I had not thought of before reading it, but it is true. That's why Ginny is potentially good for Harry, she has had the same thing done to her by her six big brothers and parents...she instinctively knows how to talk to Harry because she prefers to be treated that way too. Notice how angry she gets at the end of OOTP when they are deciding to go to MOM to rescue Sirius and Ron and Harry basically tell her she's too young...
Look we can go on an on about this, but no one can ignore what JKR has said about it!
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total hatred - Jul 4, 2004 4:41 pm (#1202 of 2916)
here is a argument for H/Hr shippers. This from chapter 21 entitled Eye of the Snake from OotP. this set after Cho and Harry kissed. Notice the reaction of Hermione.
"Well,"said Harry, an unpleasant heat creeping up his face," I sort of - patted her on the a bit."
Hermione looked as though she was restraining herself from rolling her eyes with extreme difficulty.
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Star Crossed - Jul 4, 2004 4:46 pm (#1203 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Total Hated, I don't think that's H/Hr. If Harry told that to me, I would have rolled my eyes at his stupidity.
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spug - Jul 4, 2004 5:18 pm (#1204 of 2916)
Total Hated, I don't think that's H/Hr. If Harry told that to me, I would have rolled my eyes at his stupidity. LOL Star Crossed- me too
As for the R/Hr article, I agree 100% with Green Eyes, except I felt some of the points made in it were streching a bit and totaly ivalid. For example, in no way do I feel Harry thinks Hermione is ugly or doesn't like her voice. He's just not attracted to her like he was to Cho.
Hermione mothers BOTH Harry and Ron, the point that was well made in the R/Hr article on Sugarquill was that Ron ENJOYS verbal sparring with Hermione and is not bothered by it as Harry is. Harry doesn't like it, and as stated in the article it's because he was dominated by the Dursleys which I had not thought of before reading it, but it is true. That's why Ginny is potentially good for Harry, she has had the same thing done to her by her six big brothers and parents...she instinctively knows how to talk to Harry because she prefers to be treated that way too... Green Eyes, it's like you read my mind.
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mike miller - Jul 4, 2004 5:52 pm (#1205 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Susan Potter - Take 10 points for your house for a well thought out and clearly stated hypothysis. I think Susan Bones has the best chance out of the girls at Hogwarts (barring the complete personality transformation of Pansy).
Honestly, I don't see Harry having much 'shipping while still at school. There is just too much going on around Harry; and, I think the HBP and book 7 will get even crazier. Harry will probably have a couple more dates to Hogsmeade and kissing under the mistletoe but nothing much more until after Voldemort has been defeated.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 4, 2004 5:55 pm (#1206 of 2916)
Well, I ship H/H and I'm 33. I see them as sort of like Ross and Rachel in Friends. Rachel loved Ross as a friend, but wasn't attracted to him at all until she found out he was in love with her. She just had never thought of him that way. When she did, she fell deeply in love with him and they were soul-mates after that.
That's what I see happening with H/H. I think something will happen to make Harry "notice" Hermione in a new way, and he'll be a goner.
I also read the R/H essay. I can't stand the way Ron and Hermione speak to each other. They are so harsh. I can't believe people think it's enjoyable, for Ron and Hermione, or for us, the readers. Hermione doesn't seem to respect Ron, IMO. She cares for him, but seems to look down on him at times. She would mother Ron more in a relationship than Harry.
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Green Eyes - Jul 4, 2004 8:08 pm (#1207 of 2916)
Hermione looks down on everyone...she is a typical bossy, know it all girl and I don't mean that in a bad way.
To compare Harry and Hermione to Ross and Rachel from friends is too funny...I mean Harry Potter is a fantasy/fairy tale...we have to remember this...this is not a sitcom on NBC! Rachel falling for Ross and then not falling for him and then having a baby with him etc, just doesn't fit in with Harry Potter. But if you want to make that comparison, then you have to apply it Ron because Rachel and Ross are just as harsh with one another if not more so than Ron and Hermione. The boy and girl who go at each other is a typical romantic set up. Have you ever seen Star Wars - Leia and Han? A movie called ADAM's RIB with Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy...Shakespeares AS YOU LIKE IT with Emma Thompson and Kenneth Branagh? The verbal sparring is what turns them on!
The point of the essay is that Harry doesn't like it. That's why he never listens to Hermione even though she is many time right in what she is trying to tell him. In order for Harry and Hermione to ever get together one of them has to completely change personalities...if that were to happen, especially to Hermione, then her strong female character is completely diminshed so that she can become the love object of the hero and I think that would ruin her. Harry would also have to deny his own personality to deal with her. How many people do this and have long lasting successful relationships?
And again, JKR has come out and said Ron/Hermione not Harry and Hermione. No one who ships H/Hr ever deals with this fact. JKR never says something she doesn't want people to know. She doesn't say "No, Sirius isn't going to die in book 5" and then kills him off in book five...she wouldn't answer something she didn't want us to know.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 4, 2004 8:19 pm (#1208 of 2916)
One thing we have to remember is that in OotP these kids are only fifteen, although Ron may be sixteen, but still, they're kids.
What happens between Ross and Rachel or other fictional characters doesn't pertain to kids going to a magical school.
I don't see Ron and Hermione being that harsh with each other. They're still feeling their way through a multitude of problems. Some are teen related, some are family related, and some are related to the fate of the entire Wizarding World. There are a lot of reasons for them to be short-tempered, among them the fact that it's their O.W.L. year and they have to deal with Umbridge and other things of that nature.
Ron and Hermione have the tension needed for a romance. Perhaps it will be a short-lived one, and perhaps they won't get married and have a dozen Weasleys, but for now, the tension is theirs.
Harry's relationship with Hermione is bland. They like each other, care about each other, but in more of a sibling way. There just isn't anything I've read that I can see interpreted as them feeling anything for each other than an abiding friendship.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 4, 2004 8:27 pm (#1209 of 2916)
"And again, JKR has come out and said Ron/Hermione not Harry and Hermione. No one who ships H/Hr ever deals with this fact. JKR never says something she doesn't want people to know."
She said there is tension there, not that they are going to get together. She always leaves herself an out with her answers to shipping questions, just like most of the other questions. She's come out and said she's not going to say who will get together because it would ruin the fun.
And I didn't say Harry and Hermione would have a relationship just like Ross and Rachel. I pointed out one very specific aspect of it and said that's what I imagine will happen.
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Star Crossed - Jul 4, 2004 8:30 pm (#1210 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
She says Harry and Hermione won't be snogging. I think we can take that to mean...well...they won't be snogging. And since most hormonal teens snog when they date, I just don't think they're going to date. JKR has already said Harry will be dating someone we won't expect. She's been to many fan sites and she said no one has guessed it correctly yet. H/Hr is out there, and that would be very easy to find.
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Czarina II - Jul 4, 2004 9:43 pm (#1211 of 2916)
Ok, I read the R/Hr essay and I did not find it pathetic in the least. I agree with Green Eyes (and the author). I think calling such a well-researched and well-presented essay pathetic is a bit too far. Sure, it was long. I didn't even read the other one! We can argue until the wheat dries over this issue. JKR keeps us guessing, although she seems rather adamant about Harry and Hermione not getting together.
I think it would be wise to put the question to someone who has never read HP, seen the movies, or heard us talk about it. Print off a copy of those two aforementioned essays and get that person to read the arguments. Which do they think is more convincing? Are neither of them more convincing than the other?
I am personally all for Ron/Hermione. I don't see Harry and Hermione as a romantic couple at all -- at least not a happy one. I just don't. I see Hermione holding a hot metal poker to Harry all his life if they were a couple. Ron and Hermione would be dueling with them. I think Harry and Hermione are great friends. Harry and Ron are also great friends, but IN NO WAY do I ever see them as a couple! It is quite possible for boys and girls to be friends and not lovers, really! Very good friends, in fact.
While I see Ron and Hermione painted on a brick wall in front of me in bright red letters, I don't want to place myself in any specific camp for Harry and Whomever. I think Ginny is the most obvious choice and they are well-suited for each other. Ginny does combine the better qualities of Ron and Hermione for Harry, I think. I'm not sure, though. My choices for Harry are as follows:
1. Ginny (75% likely)
2. Luna (20% likely)
3. Susan (3% likely)
4. Parvati (2% likely)
5. Pansy (0.00001% likely -- not impossible)
6. Hermione (not likely at all, especially as her creator seems to have nixed it; when I nix something in my stories, it is impossible)
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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 12:42 am (#1212 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Wow, a real flurry of posts we have here, 14, since I last posted, and all of them long.
Susan Potter : good post 1196.
Firstly, I'd like to ask you, are you JKR in disguise? If you are and are giving us a gem of a clue, I won't argue with you; (By the way I'd say I really liked all your books) but would ask you when HBP will come out.
If you are not JKR, here's what I'd like to say:
1) We know so litte about Susan still, I mean, we are more familiar to Hanah Abbot. Plus, I don't see Harry confiding anything to Bones. I mean, he still doesn't tell all his secrets to Ginny. Hermione is the only girl with whom he shares most of his secrets
2) Susan and Harry's (only) conversation was all about Harry's Patronus... why don't we know what Susan Patronus is?--S.P.
Well, we don't know patronuses of most of the people, Ron's for instance. Anyway, Susan might not have been able to conjure one...
3) Then there are her friends, does anyone else find it odd that while we have the DOM!six there is *another* group of six... Ernie, Justin, Hannah, Susan, Terry and Anthony... that are always hanging around eachother-- S.P.
That's not true. In case you haven't noticed, Terry and Anthony are in Ravenclaw and hang around with Michael Corner. The others are Hufflepuff, and they just happened to be in the same compartment.
4) Next lets look at Susan's name... for the first four books it was all we had of her, and names can be very important in JKR's books, Susan is the Hebrew word for Lily, that suggest a connection to Harry's mother, and James, a form of Jacob (also Hebrew), meaning conqueror, which ties in nicely with our hero.--S.P.
Aww, don't tell me JKR can speak Hebrew, anyway, that could be just another coincidence. (By the way, doesn't Luna's name suggests that she's a werewolf?)
5)I am just surprised that this ship didn't get more shippers, when we got a very good although, brief picture of her in OOTP and found out that Harry and Susan has about as much chance of happening as any other ship.--S.P.
Nope, no other ship than H/Hr possible, JKR said it, many missed it, she said :"Isn't it obvious" when asked about H/Hr ship. Many take it as negetive. But what is obvious is the fact that Harry is Hero and Hermione is the strongest female Character. Now tell me, what is obvious?
Another thing, on R/Hr ship,
Q- Does Ron like Hermione?
A- The answer to that is in GoF.
What I see in GoF is that Ron doesn't notice Hermione even when he is thinking of whom he should ask to the ball even when she's right beside him. That's rejection as far as Hermione is concerned and Hermione doesn't like rejection. Ron doesn't get jealous at Krum during the ball, He gets jealous at Hermione because she's getting the attention. Think about it, he feels left out. His best friends are on the top table and he's not. He reacts in the only way he knows how to: He explodes. Typical Ron.
I'd love to know the ages of some of the people who 'ship Harry and Hermione.--Green Eyes.
I'm a boy and I turn 16 this September.
As far as comparing Luke-Leia-Han to Harry-Hermione-Ron goes, I think you missed an important point. The Star Wars trio were in their 20s while Harry Potter Trio are still 15.
She says Harry and Hermione won't be snogging.--Star Crossed
Aly, Does she say that so clearly and in a straight-forward manner? There must be a room for another interpretation, there always is with JKR.
Still, I'd like some R/Hr (or for that matter any non-H/Hr) shipper to explain two things:
1) Why does JKR use words like "Bussiness-like" "Impatient" and "Brisk" to explain Hermione's reaction after confirming Harry kissed Cho.
2) Why does Hermione keep a close watch on Cho?
And I'd be glad if someone explained what was all that about Ross and Rachel in a nut-shell. (I don't really watch friends. I can't stand it)
Disagreements Appreciated
--CHEERS--
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mike miller - Jul 5, 2004 6:56 am (#1213 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I think the most damaging evidence against a H/Hr ship is the comments made by JKR regarding who will be Harry's 'ship; something to the effect that it's someone we've met and no one has got it quite right yet. Sorry I don't have the specific quote, perhaps someone more adept at tracking these things can help out.
If the statement is true, that would let out Hermoine, Ginny and Luna for sure as they seem to be the most commonly held 'ships. The other options seems like long shots. Pansy needs a complete personality transplant. Susan Bones, Lavender, Parvati, et al just seem to fall short or we don't have enough information about them.
I'm holding to the idea that Harry will not have much more than the odd date until this nasty mess with Voldemort is complete. If you want to discuss who will catch Harry under the mistletoe.....
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 5, 2004 7:55 am (#1214 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
There seems to be 'ship crisis. I think that Harry and Hermione will not happen. She and he interact as best friends and she is not snitty when he is with another girl. When Hermione went with Krum, Ron was angry, not Harry. Hermione stated that next time Ron should ask her first, even though Ron missed it. Harry noted himself in GoF that Hermione understood why Ron was mad more than Ron himself. When Hermione writes her novels to "Vicky", Ron gets jealous, not Harry. If Harry had feelings for her, even subconscious ones, he would become tetchy when she looked at other guys. The same goes for Hermione. Harry will likely end up with a girl that hadn't developed an obvious crush on him. It will also need to be a happier match than Cho. My guesses are Luna, because of the way he looked at her at the end OotP. He started seeing her differently than just Loony Luna. My other guess would be in agreement with SusanPotter, Susan Bones would be a good match. For one, Harry, who normally notices very little about other people, sees immediately that Susan is related to Madam Bones. She also got more page time in OotP. In any case, I think the next girl will be from DA.
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Susan Potter - Jul 5, 2004 9:05 am (#1215 of 2916)
Tornedo Susan Potter : good post 1196.
susan Thanks Tornedo…
Tornedo Firstly, I'd like to ask you, are you JKR in disguise? If you are and are giving us a gem of a clue, I won't argue with you; (By the way I'd say I really liked all your books) but would ask you when HBP will come out.
susan Ha ha ha… no I’m not JKR, I’m a 24 year old nanny from Boston… I wouldn’t mind JKR’s money thought-g-
tornedo If you are not JKR, here's what I'd like to say:
1) We know so little about Susan still, I mean, we are more familiar to Hanah Abbot. Plus, I don't see Harry confiding anything to Bones. I mean, he still doesn't tell all his secrets to Ginny. Hermione is the only girl with whom he shares most of his secrets
First off… I wouldn’t necessarily say we are more *familiar* with Hannah A. I think she just has more screen time then Susan, after all, what exactly do we know about Hannah? I think we have more background info on Susan than Hannah. Secondly I think JKR has set up for us to get to know Susan, she has introduced in a most peculiar way don’t you think? I think the big question is how important… my opinion is a love interest. Thirdly I think your H/Hr shipper is shinning through when you say that Harry shares most of his secretes with Hermione-g-…He didn’t tell her about his detentions… and it was Luna, a completely *NEW GIRL* who he talked about Sirius with… Harry had NO interest in confiding in Hagrid, Ron or HERMIONE, and through out the books there are a lot more cases where it shows Harry keeping mum especially when Hermione is concerned.
2) Susan and Harry's (only) conversation was all about Harry's Patronus... why don't we know what Susan Patronus is?--S.P.
Tornedo Well, we don't know patronuses of most of the people, Ron's for instance. Anyway, Susan might not have been able to conjure one...
Susan Yes we don’t know most of the Patronuses are… but NONE of the other DA members specifically had a conversation about Patronuses…even Ron. I just think its strange that we didn’t see hide nor’ hair from Susan when Harry is teaching them the Patronus charm, not even a “this is a lot easier then what I thought” or “lets see your patronus Harry” nothing from Susan… like I said its strange to me.
3) Then there are her friends, does anyone else find it odd that while we have the DOM!six there is *another* group of six... Ernie, Justin, Hannah, Susan, Terry and Anthony... that are always hanging around eachother-- S.P.
Tornedo That's not true. In case you haven't noticed, Terry and Anthony are in Ravenclaw and hang around with Michael Corner. The others are Hufflepuff, and they just happened to be in the same compartment.
susan Hmmm… I honestly don’t remember… I guess I’ll have to read the fifth book again, saying that I would like to add that the DOM!six weren’t “best buds” through out the fifth book either… and it doesn’t matter what houses they are from… Luna is not in Gryffindor. I just wonder how both groups will tie into the whole Hogwarts!Untied theme of the books, and find itstrange that JKR reminded us that they were there at the end. Especally susan... who we never hear from.
5)I am just surprised that this ship didn't get more shippers, when we got a very good although, brief picture of her in OOTP and found out that Harry and Susan has about as much chance of happening as any other ship.--S.P.
Tornedo Nope, no other ship than H/Hr possible, JKR said it, many missed it, she said :"Isn't it obvious" when asked about H/Hr ship. Many take it as negetive. But what is obvious is the fact that Harry is Hero and Hermione is the strongest female Character. Now tell me, what is obvious?
Susan again Ok I guess I was the one that missed it-g- I don’t remember her saying “Isn’t it obvious” when asked about H/Hr… could you elaborate? Give me a link or something? I just remember her saying that H/Hr is very platonic… but she wasn’t speaking for someone else… and her comment that there is something going on between Ron and Hermione….. Ron just doesn’t know it yet, then saying typical boy. Besides I wouldn't be bragging on how "obvious" H/HR is... JKR has a tendency of taking the "obvious" and blowing it up in our face.
MIke Miller said also Susan Potter: hm... good theory, but I'm not too sure we have enough info on Susan to pair her with our main character. It would be too late to introduce her IMO. The same with Luna, actually. I think if Harry get together with anyone, it will be someone who has been there the whole time.
Susan again Susan has been there the whole time… she was in the sorting ceremony… I can understand where your coming from when you say its “too late to introduce her” but remember that JKR hasn’t started Harry’s relationship with anyone… any ship from Harry/Hermione to Harry/Pansy will need to be work on… I think that any character is going to have to be developed, get to know her, ect, ect... yes, even Hermione, it will be a big change from friend to girlfriend.
Star crossed said Susan, you have very good evidence. Harry/Ginny never really totally clicked, but with what you show, I may start beliving in Harry/Susan. I never knew who to pair him with until this. So yay for you! You convinced me of a ship for Harry.
susan again I honestly don’t know if your being serious or not… but if you are… Harry/Susan can use as much support as the next ship. thanks
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Star Crossed - Jul 5, 2004 9:30 am (#1216 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Tornedo Nope, no other ship than H/Hr possible, JKR said it, many missed it, she said :"Isn't it obvious" when asked about H/Hr ship. Many take it as negetive. But what is obvious is the fact that Harry is Hero and Hermione is the strongest female Character. Now tell me, what is obvious?
So because of that they have to madly fall in love? Is this an unwritten rule of writing? Because rules were meant to be broken, and I think JKR broke that long ago.
susan again I honestly don’t know if your being serious or not… but if you are… Harry/Susan can use as much support as the next ship. thanks
Aww...You made me sort of sad. I was being serious. I don't joke about ships, if I like it, I'll be truthful, if I don't, I'll still be truthful. I think Harry might find something in Susan. Just don't know how it would work, probably through DA.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 5, 2004 11:50 am (#1217 of 2916)
I am Ron/Hermione shipper and I am sure that they will become a couple. But JKR never said, that Harry will be with someone we have already met but nobody has guessed it so far. (In this case, it will probably be Millicent Bulstrode, since I don't remember any other girl who isn't shipped with Harry). She talked about ships, and that she didn't want to spoil the fun, because she liked everybody's guesses. And then she changed the topic and told about something that is the heart of it all, and that nobody really guessed so far. She didn't mean any couple with it.
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Chris. - Jul 5, 2004 12:38 pm (#1218 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Harry/Susan is a plausible 'ship and a lot of work went into your reasoning, Susan Potter. Well done!
I am a Harry/Ginny 'shipper though I do agree with other 'ships including Harry/Hermione.
I've heard of the Harry/Pansy or Millicent. But... I don't think it will happen.
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Green Eyes - Jul 5, 2004 5:40 pm (#1219 of 2916)
I think that if Harry were going to end up with an obscure female character that he has only been a classmate/DA member with through book 5 it would be a great disappointment. We are reading a fairy tale here and how do fairy tales generally end up? All together now, HAPPILY EVER AFTER! Whew! That's better
JKR never said that no one has guessed it right (in referring to the person). She referred that no one had got the story right ( in how/what circumstances would it happen). She didn't want to say because she enjoys the fan fictions. This leaves Ginny at the top of the list simply on the basis of a lack of character developement through books 1-4 and then a huge arc of developement in book 5. There is no real reason to develop the character of Ginny Weasley in book five in order to further Harry's story...Ginny could have been easily left in the background once again and saved JKR alot of pages! But she wasn't. I wasn't certain about Ginny until book 5.
Prior to that I only had the symbolic imagery from the chamber scene in COS as foreshadowing of something more between Harry and Ginny later. She is the Sleeping Beauty to his prince fighting the dragon in that scene. When the director of the film also added the bit with Ron and Hermione at the end I came away thinking...well, there you go. H/G R/Hr.
If JKR is going to give Harry a true love interest (even if it doesn't come to full bloom until late) she has to start developing it now. And I believe she has.
"Harry, I'm talking to you, can you hear me?" ......Harry looked at her. Perhaps, it was the effect of the chocolate....
Chocolate, my arse.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 8:34 pm (#1220 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You know what, Green Eyes, I'd like to say something about the librery incident here. I've just noticed it in my latest rereading session. Many H/G shippers talk about the lump in the throat that Harry has while talking to Ginny. They somehow see it as an evidence pointing towards H/G ship.
Nope, the reason for the lump in the throat is simple, it is noticed that just before Harry feels the lump in his throat, Fizzing Wizzbees are mentioned. We know that Fizzing Wizzbees are is the Password to DD's office in the chapter "Centaur and the Sneak", May be, Harry remembers that JKR doesn't mention it because she wants to mislead you all.
Ron just doesn’t know it yet, then saying typical boy.--Susan Potter
I still don't get it, If Ron did like Hermione, why hasn't he told Harry anything yet? By the way, JKR has never directly said that Ron likes Hermione, as I said, there is always a room for misinterpretations with JKR.
Now, tell me, is there any canon evidence that Ron likes Hermione that does not involve Krum? The only evidence we seem to have is that Ron seems to get jealous whenever Krum is mentioned. Like I said before, Ron was jealous at the ball not because of Krum but because both of his friends were in top table while he was not. He probably realized later that that was wrong teased Hermione because he wanted to cover his jealousy.
I don't think you got what I wanted to say did you? And by canon evidence, I meant the evidence in the books, not movies; there's a saperate thread for that.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 5, 2004 11:08 pm (#1221 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
There was that fight that Hermione and Ron had after the ball. Hermione states something to the effect of 'next time ask me to the ball first instead of waiting to the last minute'(not direct quote) Ron replied that Hermione missed the point. Harry then noted that He thought that Hermione may have understood the situation better than Ron did. Indicating that Hermione and Ron have a mutual and, undiscussed, affection for each other and Harry realizes in glimpses. They probably do not talk openly about because of the curse of dating ones best friends. OR Harry realized how pointless it is to talk to Ron about anything regarding him being a big dummy.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 6, 2004 12:03 am (#1222 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Sleeping Beauty--
"Next time there's a ball, ask me before any one else does and not as a last resort."--GoF
I think this is the line to which you are refering to?
Right, the explaination for this--We don't know what Ron said to Hermione before Harry entered the common room. What if Ron said something personal like "Why did you go with Krum when I asked you?".[This is not mentioned in any canon but is a speculation and might be possible].In that case, Hermione's response indicates that She is irritated with him, instead of being intrested in him which many R/H shippers speculate on reading the sentence.
By the way has any one noticed this?:
Cho Chang walked into the hall with her friend Marieta.Harry's stomach gave an unpleasant lurch, but she did not look over at him and sat with her back to him.
'Oh I forgot to ask you,' said Hermione brightly, glancing over at Ravenclaw table,'what happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'--OotP(Ch:26; Page:504 British version, First edition)
Hermione, we all know is an observant person.(Fluffy and the trap door)Surely, she's noticed Cho's less than friendly behaviour towards Harry there. She knows that Harry came early from his date with Cho. She has certainly put 2 and 2 together and concluded that Harry's date with Cho was a disaster. Yet, she asks Harry about his date "brightly". That means She's definately happy that Harry has broken up with Cho.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 6, 2004 12:33 am (#1223 of 2916)
I take "brightly" to mean that she's hoping there's a reasonable explanation she can help Harry with so that he and Cho stay together. I also think that after everything he's been through so far in OotP that her "brightly" is a nervous mannerism because she has no way of knowing if he'll flip out the way he did at Grimmauld Place.
I see no canon evidence that there is anything between Harry and Hermione. There are passages that may be open to interpretation such as the above, but no actual evidence.
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Chris. - Jul 6, 2004 2:56 am (#1224 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
You know what, Green Eyes, I'd like to say something about the library incident here. I've just noticed it in my latest re reading session. Many H/G shippers talk about the lump in the throat that Harry has while talking to Ginny. They somehow see it as an evidence pointing towards H/G ship.-Tornedo.
Okay, I agree here because Harry was emotional after seeing Snape's worst memory. After seeing that his father wasn't the saint that people made him out to be, he would bound to be upset. Talking to someone about it would make him relive the pensieve scene in his head all over again, which would have been painful seeing as Harry was shown his father's real ways.
As for Hermione asking Harry brightly about Cho. Was there gossip going round about the tearoom tantrum? Hermione may have heard a exageratted story and was in stiches because of it, but still wanted to asks Harry about it.
Just because Hermione talks about Cho "briskly" doesn't mean she wasn't pleased about Harry kissing Cho. Hermione usually takes a business-like approach to people's emotions. And she didn't wanted to be classed like Ron and his childish reactions. But why was Ron so happy for him? Was it because he thought there was no chance of an H/Hr 'ship after then? And the furtive look on the train, I think Ron gave the look to Harry because he wanted to warn Harry away from Hermione. He could have even told Ginny to go to the library rather than Hermione going. Didn't want them left alone
EDIT: And Tornedo, no offence, but there's "evidence" that Harry/Hermione 'shippers use which doesn't really point to the 'ship like Harry pulling Hermione away from Grawp, what any friend would do.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 6, 2004 3:31 am (#1225 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
And Tornedo, no offence, but there's "evidence" that Harry/Hermione 'shippers use which doesn't really point to the 'ship like Harry pulling Hermione away from Grawp, what any friend would do. --Prongs
I never said any thing about Harry pulling Hermione from Grawp as being evidence... For heaven's sake, Harry even put a hand out to stop Malfoy from being hurt in the forest in PS even though he's his worst enemy. When I meant evidence, I meant evidence which JKR has been giving throughout the 5 books, like Hippogryff being sign of love etc. Also, How do you the fact Harry has been thinking a lot about Hermione a lot... a lot more than he thinks about Ron, him thinking about her advice even while sleeping etc.
During the first 3 books and for the first half of the fourth book, Harry is closer to Ron than to Hermione, but after that, he seems to care about Hermione more than he cared for Ron. By the way, Harry and Hermione are always worried about each other and the only time Harry is worried about Ron in GoF and OotP is when Ron is attacked by the brain in DoM.
--Buckbeak--
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Chris. - Jul 6, 2004 3:37 am (#1226 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Just because it was Harry and Hermione who rode Buckbeak the Hippogriff to help Sirius means that they will get it together? I understand the hippogriff is a sign of love but I really can't see that as a sign.
Harry hadn't stopped caring less for any of them. At the start of OP, he is as angry with both of them and still had that anger throughout the school year. The only reason Harry keeps thinking about Hermione, in my opinion, is because she kept asking him questions...all the time.
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Star Crossed - Jul 6, 2004 5:44 am (#1227 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Cho Chang walked into the hall with her friend Marieta.Harry's stomach gave an unpleasant lurch, but she did not look over at him and sat with her back to him.
'Oh I forgot to ask you,' said Hermione brightly, glancing over at Ravenclaw table,'what happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'--OotP(Ch:26; Page:504 British version, First edition)
I don't think she knew. If she did, it was very cruel that she brought it up. Friends just talk about how dates go. It's an unwritten rule. And as for why is Ron so happy that Harry kissed Cho and Hermione seems so business like. As for Ron, his best mate just got kissed by a pretty girl! It's cause for celebration! For Hermione, she's a girl who has been to the loo enough times to know that Cho cries a lot. Hermione seems to be trying to understand what Cho is going through, and is probably thinking how quickly Cho is trying to move on, and it just doesn't work.
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 6, 2004 5:59 am (#1228 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Over the last few posts a number of quotes have been mentioned.... so I thought it might be useful to include these quotes ....
Mike.... the quote (I think) you were refering to comes from JK's interview with Jeremy Paxman on BBC pre OotP release :
(Link to full transcript)
Jeremy Paxman: "So there will be some pairing up will there in this book"?
JKR: "Well in the fullness of time".
JP: "Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that"?
JKR: "I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues".
Interesting indeed.... I do believe however that she was talking in general about fan theories in regards to the series when she says "some have got quite close". I wasn't a member of the forum pre OotP days, so I don't know if Ginny was in the running at that point, so if she [Jo], was talking about ships... if Ginny wasn't being considered then she could say "no one had got it right". Also Luna hadn't been introduced, so she wouldn't have been a candidate at that point either.
I do think she was talking about theories in general. I remember watching that show on TV & there was a pause between her discussing the 'ships & the "one thing no one has guessed" ... but hey that's just my interpretation... I could be wrong. Plus when she states that "everything has been building up to it" it makes me think she is talking about theories of how it will all end .... I really don't see Harrys ship being the crux of Voldys downfall... but then again
The other quote comes from the JK's 2003 interview with Katie Couric .... (Link to Full Transcript)
Rowling: ".... yes, he does have certain adolescent, um, rights of passage happen to him".
Couric: "Any snogging with Hermione"?
Rowling: "Hermione and Harry?! Do you think so"?
Couric: "No I’m kidding".
Rowling: "Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more tension there"
Here JK appears quite taken aback at the suggestion of Harry & Hermione. True, she doesn't out & out say that Ron & Hermione are going to get together... who knows, they might not! However she does point out that there is "more tension there" as in there is 'something' going on between Ron & Hermione that doesn't exist between Harry & Hermione .... but she's not really going to say if (or when) either will act on it... she enjoys teasing us too much methinks.
Theres a video clip of this question & answer available here.
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Green Eyes - Jul 6, 2004 7:35 am (#1229 of 2916)
Tornedo...the lump in Harry's throat in the library has more to do with his state of mind...being depressed. He receives the gift of the Easter egg from Mrs. Weasley, through Ginny and he gets emotional...he's been repressing his feelings about what he saw in the pensieve and the kind gesture from Mrs. Weasley/Ginny brings his emotions out. Ginny goes to the library to try and cheer him up, thinking he is down about his latest fight with Cho...she doesn't know he's depressed about what he saw in the pensieve...even Ron and Hermione don't know this because he hasn't told them. Think about what she is doing...Ginny, who has had a crush on Harry for so long, thinks he is depressed over a fight with his latest girlfriend (CHO) and she goes to the library to cheer him up. A huge step for her. In fact, a case could be made that Harry's emotions are because of Ginny's unselfish gesture...but I digress.
Ginny's conversation with Harry in the library is their first conversation alone since he woke her in the Chamber in book 2. She has been gradually brought into his line of vision in book 5 through Quidditch, through her experience with possession, through her brothers discussions of her power and now towards the end of the book we see the two of them have a conversation alone...and look what happens. It takes him about a minute and half of Ginny's quiet prodding to get him to open up. She doesn't react the way Hermione does to his need to talk to Sirius. Ginny doesn't judge Harry's intentions, she simply offers to help him and she bolsters him psychologically by telling him "...anything is possible if you have enough nerve." And based on the fact that we now know he is the one who has to vanquish the DARK LORD, somebody needs to start telling him YES YOU CAN!!!!! I see it happening here already.
JKR is showing us what can happen now that Ginny is willing to talk to Harry and be a friend to him. He doesn't notice her in the scene until she speaks...He hasn't noticed her much in the books because she has been mute around him. I think that JKR is setting them up for more one on one conversations in book 6 and we'll see what happens.
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Robert Dierken - Jul 6, 2004 9:36 am (#1230 of 2916)
Other possible theories:
(1) Harry does not have a 'ship until a few years after the seventh book ends, and the links up with Gabrielle Delacour!
(2) Harry links up with one of the two (as yet unnamed) girls who asked him for a date to the Yule Ball!
(3) Harry links up with Katie!
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 6, 2004 10:41 am (#1231 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Fawkes Forever,
Your quote about something being "the heart of it all" was the spark that sent me looking into the Harry/Pansy 'ship.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2004 10:56 am (#1232 of 2916)
Marcus - where have you been???
If you haven't yet, get over to the "Pansy" thread - I think you have some converts!
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Sir Tornado - Jul 6, 2004 11:07 am (#1233 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Green Eyes, I love to argue with you. Ginny did not go to library to cheer Harry but to give him his easter egg.
I think we had this disscussion a week ago. May be we should copy this and keep posting every other week. He Hee.
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Chris. - Jul 6, 2004 1:43 pm (#1234 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Tornedo, yes she did go to the library to give Harry his Easter egg but was that her front?
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total hatred - Jul 6, 2004 2:33 pm (#1235 of 2916)
Here my rebuttal to he one that said that my jealousy angle is pathetic. This from OotP from the chapter Seen and Unforseen. "Look-You upset Cho when you said you were going to meet, she tried to make you jealous. It was her way of tring to find out how much you liked her." It may be slightly irrelevant to the angle but it legitimizes that girls uses jealousy to find out their chances with the boys.
As a response to said killer evidence to H/Hr ship, it can be turned our best weapon against R/Hr shippers. all Miss rowling says is that there is tension between Ron and Hermione but do you think it is really romantically linked. About the fact that she was taken back by the suggestion of Harry and Mione snogging, it can also interpreted that she was surprised that someone had an idea of what she delibrately tried to write. You also don't need to kiss each other to show that you love each other.
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total hatred - Jul 6, 2004 2:45 pm (#1236 of 2916)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 6, 2004 5:46 pm
Edit: I moved this post from the Luna Lovegood thread. Denise P
I agree. How many are here are H/L shippers? Barely a minority of the posters.
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Green Eyes - Jul 6, 2004 6:32 pm (#1237 of 2916)
I thought I had posted a reply earlier but it's not showing up so I must've deleted by mistake...
Tornedo...you are a great debater for someone so young...have you considered law school?
As for Ginny's motives when she goes to the library...she does go to give him the egg but why does she go directly from Quidditch practice (looking very windswept) to getting a package that "only just got through Umbridge's screening process" to the library to find Harry?
You have to infer from the information given to us in the this scene that she is trying to give him the egg in an effort to cheer him up. She thinks (like Hermione and Ron) that it's Cho that he's down about. Now when she arrives she doesn't know what they might actually talk about but when she gives him the egg and he appears "emotional" she asks if he's okay and then we all know the rest.
Again, this scene is the first time Harry and Ginny have conversed alone since he awakened her in the COS. It also speaks volumes about their previous interactions (he doesn't notice her until she actually speaks to him) and sets the table for future interactions. If Harry has a positive experience talking to and confiding in Ginny, then chances are this will happen again - especially if he continues to chafe at Hermione's admonitions.
Then we ask again...why does Harry have this scene with Ginny? Or for that matter any of the scenes in which she interacts with him? None of them are mandatory for the plot to be furthered...she could have easily been left out if she was unimportant.
As for those who contine to expect a H/Hr "surprise." There seems to be a willingness to ignore, not only the canon, the movie scenes but also JKR's own words in interviews and chats in which she has repeatedly stated that H/Hr are platonic, just friends, more tension between Ron and Hermione etc. She answered the questions about H/Hr. If she didn't want you to know...she would have avoided a direct answer. She does this when we ask about H/G directly, or about any other part of the books she doesn't want to reveal.
We could just keep re posting the same posts because I suppose those who have their hearts set on H/Hr will not give it up until the last page of the last book is read!
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mike miller - Jul 6, 2004 6:38 pm (#1238 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Thanks Fawkes!! That was the quote I had seen before. If the timing of that interview was pre-OotP, then do we have to exclude all new characters that were introduced in OotP? Can we trust JKR's comments in the interview format? She definately has more of the story in her mind than has been put on paper for all to read, maybe it just seems to her that we should know the character she's tlaking about.
If we must limit our search for Harry's 'ship to characters introduced in the first four books, that alone could be the single strongest evidence for the Pansy theory.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 6, 2004 7:32 pm (#1239 of 2916)
"As for those who continue to expect a H/Hr "surprise." There seems to be a willingness to ignore, not only the canon, the movie scenes but also JKR's own words in interviews and chats ..."
Unless JKR come out and answers a question with a direct answer, (like she did with mark Evans) it doesn't count for me. If R/H is so obvious, why didn't anything happen in book 5 between them? I think most of us expected it to. She never answers the shipping questions with a direct answer, except when she said Draco is not Tom Felton, so forget about H/D.
What's the big deal about saying there's more tension between R/H? That's not some big scoop she gave us. Anybody who reads the books knows that there's tension there. We might see different kinds of tension though. And saying there's tension there is not saying they are going to get together.
With any luck, maybe we'll know more by Christmas! (crossing fingers)
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Mrs. George Weasley - Jul 6, 2004 11:22 pm (#1240 of 2916)
Is just obsessed with the magical world that her muggle eyes is unable to see...
I just have to say... I am a HUGE R/Hr fan.. I can't see them possibly not ending up together... Perhaps just because they act the exact same way me and my significant other tend to act... but maybe not.
There are just so many hints, them bickering (doesn't Harry point out they act like Mr and Mrs Weasley?), Ron getting horribly jealous, Hermione being annoyed Ron didn't realize she was a 'girl', the perfume... And as for Hermione being jealous of Cho, I never ever got that feeling by reading the books.
Also, JK Rowling seems to be giving off strong R/Hr vibes in interviews and such, and it's hard not to notice how complimentary the two of them are. I really don't think Harry and Hermione have any chemistry other than the friendship type!
Also, H/Hr shippers tend to say things like "The hero (Harry) always gets the heroine (Hermione)!" Well I don't argue that Hermione isn't a heroine... But that rule isn't exactly right, is it? The hero gets the *damsel*. Hermione definately isn't a damsel... But perhaps Ginny Weasley is (CoS). So Ron and Hermione live on!
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Muggle Doctor - Jul 7, 2004 12:29 am (#1241 of 2916)
Ron/Hermione: lots of little clues as mentioned above, plus it throws a muggle-born wizard together with a pure-blood (the thing the Slytherins despise most). Maybe that point is sledgehammer obvious, but I still think it is valid.
Harry/?
Not Hermione, for reasons stated above.
Probably not Ginny, unless something happens to make her fancy him again (she owes him too much for her to be able to start a romantic relationship: there's too much emotional baggage).
Luna? A distinct possibility. Oddball she may be, but she has lost at least one parent and can sympathise (to a certain extent) with Harry's loss of his parents and Sirius: recall that he didn't feel anywhere near as bad over Luna mentioning Sirius' death as anyone else. She may seem gullible and willing to believe just about anything, but it may mean that she will believe/stand up for Harry, no matter what. And she WAS willing to use her father's magazine (the Quibbler) as an alternative media vehicle for Harry to be heard. She didn't HAVE to do that.
Susan Bones, or possibly some other girl who has lost one or more parents or relatives to Death Eaters/Voldemort. Again there is the common bond of shared loss.
My bet for Harry is Luna; I think he will eventually see behind the ethereal vagueness, especially as he's started to feel sorry for her (recall that he offered to help her look for her things at the end of the year). There is CERTAINLY an understanding evolving between these two, if nothing else, and Harry desperately needs a female friend who is closer to his own level of technical/intellectual competence than Hermione. Great things are expected of him, but Hermione always seems to do better (except at the cutting edge of Defence...). Great things are not necessarily expected of Ron, and he doesn't mind so much that Hermione walks all over him academically - he KNOWS he's not in the running! Hermione gives just about everyone else an inferiority complex, and I don't think either of the boys have entirely shaken their view of her as an interfering busybody who has no idea about "people". (They are wrong).
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S.E. Jones - Jul 7, 2004 1:23 am (#1242 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Edited Jul 7, 2004 2:19 am
Thought you might all find these 'shipping related citations very interesting....
Barnes and Noble Chat, October 2000:
sammyohyeah: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of GOF? I love your books, btw, and two of them I've read stright through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
jkrowling: well done on the reading speed! yes, something's 'going on'...but Ron doesn't realise it yet...typical boy
brian: Will Ron ever get a girlfriend?
jkrowling: I'm laughing again... why wouldn't he?! though he's not doing too well at the moment, is he? but then, Fleur Delacour was really aiming a bit high
BBC News (Paxman), June 2003:
JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?
JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
Columbus Dispatch, October 1999:
Q: Will Harry find romance in book four?
A: He tries, but he doesn't get very far. They're all kind of after the wrong people, as in life. Hermione gets the first date, and it's quite a cool one because I thought I owed her a bit of fun.
Comic Relief, October 2002:
Zsenya - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
JKR - The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire, Zsenya!
Glynnis L - Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny Weasley?
JKR - You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?
Dateline NBC (Couric) - transcript, June 2003:
Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?”
Rowling: (slight frown) “Hermione and Harry! Do you think so?”
Couric: “No I’m kidding.
Rowling: “Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more potential (or did she say “tension”) there”.
Press Club, October 1999:
JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]
Scholastic 1, February 2000:
Q: Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?
A: In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)
World Day, March 2004:
renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too.
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
polly weasley: Will Harry fall for another girl in book six, or will he be too busy for romance?
JK Rowling replies -> He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?
hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sight*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!
JKRowling.com (FAQ page), 2004:
Q: Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
A: I can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked this one out yet, but I’m not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 7, 2004 3:09 am (#1243 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Tornedo, yes she did go to the library to give Harry his Easter egg but was that her front?--Prongs
Well, if that's a question to me, I'd say no, that's not her front, but a genuine reason.
Total Hatred, that's a perfect post #1234. The only thing wrong in it is Rowling is married and is no longer 'Miss' . Otherwise, I agree with you completely.
I'd like to add to your point though and that's Hermione mentions Ginny going with Corner to Harry, NOT Ron. Dropping some hints to Harry? Definately. She's in effect telling him "Ginny waited for you for three years, you did nothing about it, and now she's gone. Don't do that to me." In fact, I definately remember Hermione telling Harry Ginny had "Given up on Harry ages ago." (Sorry, can't give you exact quote. I'm at my Grandad's right now and haven't brought the books here) Hermione's vere subtle while dropping hints isn't she? I bet a lot of people missed that; including all the R/Hr 'shippers here and even most of the H/Hr 'shippers.
Also, I completely agree with you when you say that JKR, being surprised at the mention of H/Hr ship. If that wasn't the Ship, JKR would've been amused, not surprised that we think it's gonna be H/Hr. Then, she tries to draw our attention from her surprise by pointing us towards R/Hr ship. She's clever isn't she?
Tornedo...you are a great debater for someone so young...have you considered law school?--Green Eyes
Nope, I don't want to spend rest of my life lying before Judges and Juries. (No offence meant for any Lawyers on this Forum)
Then we ask again...why does Harry have this scene with Ginny? Or for that matter any of the scenes in which she interacts with him? --Green Eyes.
Heck, they're characters in a story, you can't blame them for interacting with each other can you?
None of them are mandatory for the plot to be furthered...she could have easily been left out if she was unimportant. --Green Eyes.
Please tell me you're kidding. Isn't Harry important for the plot to be furthered? There was me thinking he was the Hero of the story... As for Ginny? Someone needed to tell Fred and George. They were to cause the diversion. Ron would've told Hermione thinking She would help. Harry wouldn't've told F&G himself for obvious reasons. Thus the conversation with Ginny.
There seems to be a willingness to ignore, not only the canon, the movie scenes but also JKR's own words in interviews and chats in which she has repeatedly stated that H/Hr are platonic. --Green Eyes.
Harry and Hermione are platonic. "Are" refers to present tense. Relationships and their natures could change in the future...
We could just keep re posting the same posts because I suppose those who have their hearts set on H/Hr will not give it up until the last page of the last book is read! --Green Eyes.
I can say the same thing for R/Hr shippers. Well, no, actually, if Ron deflates his ego a bit, then I might just...
She never answers the shipping questions with a direct answer, except when she said Draco is not Tom Felton, so forget about H/D. --Coolbeans.
Never read that before. Could you quote?
Great, Coolbeans, Tracie, Total Hatred, we now have two more R/Hr 'shippers (Mrs George Weasley, Muggle Doctor) jumping down our throats.
Sarah, wow, good many quotes there. *Refuses to coment before anyone else*
--CHEERS--
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 7:02 am (#1244 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Mrs. George Weasley - H/Hr shippers tend to say things like "The hero (Harry) always gets the heroine (Hermione)!" Well I don't argue that Hermione isn't a heroine... But that rule isn't exactly right, is it?
Well, I think it safe to say that the Hero doesn't get the shrinking violet.
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haymoni - Jul 7, 2004 8:42 am (#1245 of 2916)
Or maybe he gets the Shrinking Pansy!
- can't believe you left that out there, Marcus!
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I'd love to know the ages of some of the people who 'ship Harry and Hermione. I would venture to say that they are mostly girls who are in their teens. I say this because when I was a teen, about 25 years ago, I had the same reaction to Princess Leia and Luke Skywalker in the Star Wars trilogy. My reasons for wanting the two characters together was because I was mad for Mark Hamill and projected my feelings onto his character, Luke and the only female character in the movies, Leia. Boy, was I wrong. Okay...now you can throw the tomatoes at me!
As for the R/Hr article at Sugarquill, I thought the points that the author made were very well thought out and researched and reflected my own feelings from reading the novels all along. I believe the author of that article is in her 30's if I am not mistaken. I am in my 40's now and have alot of experience with both life and literature to draw from.
Hermione mothers BOTH Harry and Ron, the point that was well made in the R/Hr article on Sugarquill was that Ron ENJOYS verbal sparring with Hermione and is not bothered by it as Harry is. Harry doesn't like it, and as stated in the article it's because he was dominated by the Dursleys which I had not thought of before reading it, but it is true. That's why Ginny is potentially good for Harry, she has had the same thing done to her by her six big brothers and parents...she instinctively knows how to talk to Harry because she prefers to be treated that way too. Notice how angry she gets at the end of OOTP when they are deciding to go to MOM to rescue Sirius and Ron and Harry basically tell her she's too young...
Look we can go on an on about this, but no one can ignore what JKR has said about it!
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total hatred - Jul 4, 2004 4:41 pm (#1202 of 2916)
here is a argument for H/Hr shippers. This from chapter 21 entitled Eye of the Snake from OotP. this set after Cho and Harry kissed. Notice the reaction of Hermione.
"Well,"said Harry, an unpleasant heat creeping up his face," I sort of - patted her on the a bit."
Hermione looked as though she was restraining herself from rolling her eyes with extreme difficulty.
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Star Crossed - Jul 4, 2004 4:46 pm (#1203 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Total Hated, I don't think that's H/Hr. If Harry told that to me, I would have rolled my eyes at his stupidity.
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spug - Jul 4, 2004 5:18 pm (#1204 of 2916)
Total Hated, I don't think that's H/Hr. If Harry told that to me, I would have rolled my eyes at his stupidity. LOL Star Crossed- me too
As for the R/Hr article, I agree 100% with Green Eyes, except I felt some of the points made in it were streching a bit and totaly ivalid. For example, in no way do I feel Harry thinks Hermione is ugly or doesn't like her voice. He's just not attracted to her like he was to Cho.
Hermione mothers BOTH Harry and Ron, the point that was well made in the R/Hr article on Sugarquill was that Ron ENJOYS verbal sparring with Hermione and is not bothered by it as Harry is. Harry doesn't like it, and as stated in the article it's because he was dominated by the Dursleys which I had not thought of before reading it, but it is true. That's why Ginny is potentially good for Harry, she has had the same thing done to her by her six big brothers and parents...she instinctively knows how to talk to Harry because she prefers to be treated that way too... Green Eyes, it's like you read my mind.
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mike miller - Jul 4, 2004 5:52 pm (#1205 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Susan Potter - Take 10 points for your house for a well thought out and clearly stated hypothysis. I think Susan Bones has the best chance out of the girls at Hogwarts (barring the complete personality transformation of Pansy).
Honestly, I don't see Harry having much 'shipping while still at school. There is just too much going on around Harry; and, I think the HBP and book 7 will get even crazier. Harry will probably have a couple more dates to Hogsmeade and kissing under the mistletoe but nothing much more until after Voldemort has been defeated.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 4, 2004 5:55 pm (#1206 of 2916)
Well, I ship H/H and I'm 33. I see them as sort of like Ross and Rachel in Friends. Rachel loved Ross as a friend, but wasn't attracted to him at all until she found out he was in love with her. She just had never thought of him that way. When she did, she fell deeply in love with him and they were soul-mates after that.
That's what I see happening with H/H. I think something will happen to make Harry "notice" Hermione in a new way, and he'll be a goner.
I also read the R/H essay. I can't stand the way Ron and Hermione speak to each other. They are so harsh. I can't believe people think it's enjoyable, for Ron and Hermione, or for us, the readers. Hermione doesn't seem to respect Ron, IMO. She cares for him, but seems to look down on him at times. She would mother Ron more in a relationship than Harry.
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Green Eyes - Jul 4, 2004 8:08 pm (#1207 of 2916)
Hermione looks down on everyone...she is a typical bossy, know it all girl and I don't mean that in a bad way.
To compare Harry and Hermione to Ross and Rachel from friends is too funny...I mean Harry Potter is a fantasy/fairy tale...we have to remember this...this is not a sitcom on NBC! Rachel falling for Ross and then not falling for him and then having a baby with him etc, just doesn't fit in with Harry Potter. But if you want to make that comparison, then you have to apply it Ron because Rachel and Ross are just as harsh with one another if not more so than Ron and Hermione. The boy and girl who go at each other is a typical romantic set up. Have you ever seen Star Wars - Leia and Han? A movie called ADAM's RIB with Katherine Hepburn and Spencer Tracy...Shakespeares AS YOU LIKE IT with Emma Thompson and Kenneth Branagh? The verbal sparring is what turns them on!
The point of the essay is that Harry doesn't like it. That's why he never listens to Hermione even though she is many time right in what she is trying to tell him. In order for Harry and Hermione to ever get together one of them has to completely change personalities...if that were to happen, especially to Hermione, then her strong female character is completely diminshed so that she can become the love object of the hero and I think that would ruin her. Harry would also have to deny his own personality to deal with her. How many people do this and have long lasting successful relationships?
And again, JKR has come out and said Ron/Hermione not Harry and Hermione. No one who ships H/Hr ever deals with this fact. JKR never says something she doesn't want people to know. She doesn't say "No, Sirius isn't going to die in book 5" and then kills him off in book five...she wouldn't answer something she didn't want us to know.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 4, 2004 8:19 pm (#1208 of 2916)
One thing we have to remember is that in OotP these kids are only fifteen, although Ron may be sixteen, but still, they're kids.
What happens between Ross and Rachel or other fictional characters doesn't pertain to kids going to a magical school.
I don't see Ron and Hermione being that harsh with each other. They're still feeling their way through a multitude of problems. Some are teen related, some are family related, and some are related to the fate of the entire Wizarding World. There are a lot of reasons for them to be short-tempered, among them the fact that it's their O.W.L. year and they have to deal with Umbridge and other things of that nature.
Ron and Hermione have the tension needed for a romance. Perhaps it will be a short-lived one, and perhaps they won't get married and have a dozen Weasleys, but for now, the tension is theirs.
Harry's relationship with Hermione is bland. They like each other, care about each other, but in more of a sibling way. There just isn't anything I've read that I can see interpreted as them feeling anything for each other than an abiding friendship.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 4, 2004 8:27 pm (#1209 of 2916)
"And again, JKR has come out and said Ron/Hermione not Harry and Hermione. No one who ships H/Hr ever deals with this fact. JKR never says something she doesn't want people to know."
She said there is tension there, not that they are going to get together. She always leaves herself an out with her answers to shipping questions, just like most of the other questions. She's come out and said she's not going to say who will get together because it would ruin the fun.
And I didn't say Harry and Hermione would have a relationship just like Ross and Rachel. I pointed out one very specific aspect of it and said that's what I imagine will happen.
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Star Crossed - Jul 4, 2004 8:30 pm (#1210 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
She says Harry and Hermione won't be snogging. I think we can take that to mean...well...they won't be snogging. And since most hormonal teens snog when they date, I just don't think they're going to date. JKR has already said Harry will be dating someone we won't expect. She's been to many fan sites and she said no one has guessed it correctly yet. H/Hr is out there, and that would be very easy to find.
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Czarina II - Jul 4, 2004 9:43 pm (#1211 of 2916)
Ok, I read the R/Hr essay and I did not find it pathetic in the least. I agree with Green Eyes (and the author). I think calling such a well-researched and well-presented essay pathetic is a bit too far. Sure, it was long. I didn't even read the other one! We can argue until the wheat dries over this issue. JKR keeps us guessing, although she seems rather adamant about Harry and Hermione not getting together.
I think it would be wise to put the question to someone who has never read HP, seen the movies, or heard us talk about it. Print off a copy of those two aforementioned essays and get that person to read the arguments. Which do they think is more convincing? Are neither of them more convincing than the other?
I am personally all for Ron/Hermione. I don't see Harry and Hermione as a romantic couple at all -- at least not a happy one. I just don't. I see Hermione holding a hot metal poker to Harry all his life if they were a couple. Ron and Hermione would be dueling with them. I think Harry and Hermione are great friends. Harry and Ron are also great friends, but IN NO WAY do I ever see them as a couple! It is quite possible for boys and girls to be friends and not lovers, really! Very good friends, in fact.
While I see Ron and Hermione painted on a brick wall in front of me in bright red letters, I don't want to place myself in any specific camp for Harry and Whomever. I think Ginny is the most obvious choice and they are well-suited for each other. Ginny does combine the better qualities of Ron and Hermione for Harry, I think. I'm not sure, though. My choices for Harry are as follows:
1. Ginny (75% likely)
2. Luna (20% likely)
3. Susan (3% likely)
4. Parvati (2% likely)
5. Pansy (0.00001% likely -- not impossible)
6. Hermione (not likely at all, especially as her creator seems to have nixed it; when I nix something in my stories, it is impossible)
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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 12:42 am (#1212 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Wow, a real flurry of posts we have here, 14, since I last posted, and all of them long.
Susan Potter : good post 1196.
Firstly, I'd like to ask you, are you JKR in disguise? If you are and are giving us a gem of a clue, I won't argue with you; (By the way I'd say I really liked all your books) but would ask you when HBP will come out.
If you are not JKR, here's what I'd like to say:
1) We know so litte about Susan still, I mean, we are more familiar to Hanah Abbot. Plus, I don't see Harry confiding anything to Bones. I mean, he still doesn't tell all his secrets to Ginny. Hermione is the only girl with whom he shares most of his secrets
2) Susan and Harry's (only) conversation was all about Harry's Patronus... why don't we know what Susan Patronus is?--S.P.
Well, we don't know patronuses of most of the people, Ron's for instance. Anyway, Susan might not have been able to conjure one...
3) Then there are her friends, does anyone else find it odd that while we have the DOM!six there is *another* group of six... Ernie, Justin, Hannah, Susan, Terry and Anthony... that are always hanging around eachother-- S.P.
That's not true. In case you haven't noticed, Terry and Anthony are in Ravenclaw and hang around with Michael Corner. The others are Hufflepuff, and they just happened to be in the same compartment.
4) Next lets look at Susan's name... for the first four books it was all we had of her, and names can be very important in JKR's books, Susan is the Hebrew word for Lily, that suggest a connection to Harry's mother, and James, a form of Jacob (also Hebrew), meaning conqueror, which ties in nicely with our hero.--S.P.
Aww, don't tell me JKR can speak Hebrew, anyway, that could be just another coincidence. (By the way, doesn't Luna's name suggests that she's a werewolf?)
5)I am just surprised that this ship didn't get more shippers, when we got a very good although, brief picture of her in OOTP and found out that Harry and Susan has about as much chance of happening as any other ship.--S.P.
Nope, no other ship than H/Hr possible, JKR said it, many missed it, she said :"Isn't it obvious" when asked about H/Hr ship. Many take it as negetive. But what is obvious is the fact that Harry is Hero and Hermione is the strongest female Character. Now tell me, what is obvious?
Another thing, on R/Hr ship,
Q- Does Ron like Hermione?
A- The answer to that is in GoF.
What I see in GoF is that Ron doesn't notice Hermione even when he is thinking of whom he should ask to the ball even when she's right beside him. That's rejection as far as Hermione is concerned and Hermione doesn't like rejection. Ron doesn't get jealous at Krum during the ball, He gets jealous at Hermione because she's getting the attention. Think about it, he feels left out. His best friends are on the top table and he's not. He reacts in the only way he knows how to: He explodes. Typical Ron.
I'd love to know the ages of some of the people who 'ship Harry and Hermione.--Green Eyes.
I'm a boy and I turn 16 this September.
As far as comparing Luke-Leia-Han to Harry-Hermione-Ron goes, I think you missed an important point. The Star Wars trio were in their 20s while Harry Potter Trio are still 15.
She says Harry and Hermione won't be snogging.--Star Crossed
Aly, Does she say that so clearly and in a straight-forward manner? There must be a room for another interpretation, there always is with JKR.
Still, I'd like some R/Hr (or for that matter any non-H/Hr) shipper to explain two things:
1) Why does JKR use words like "Bussiness-like" "Impatient" and "Brisk" to explain Hermione's reaction after confirming Harry kissed Cho.
2) Why does Hermione keep a close watch on Cho?
And I'd be glad if someone explained what was all that about Ross and Rachel in a nut-shell. (I don't really watch friends. I can't stand it)
Disagreements Appreciated
--CHEERS--
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mike miller - Jul 5, 2004 6:56 am (#1213 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I think the most damaging evidence against a H/Hr ship is the comments made by JKR regarding who will be Harry's 'ship; something to the effect that it's someone we've met and no one has got it quite right yet. Sorry I don't have the specific quote, perhaps someone more adept at tracking these things can help out.
If the statement is true, that would let out Hermoine, Ginny and Luna for sure as they seem to be the most commonly held 'ships. The other options seems like long shots. Pansy needs a complete personality transplant. Susan Bones, Lavender, Parvati, et al just seem to fall short or we don't have enough information about them.
I'm holding to the idea that Harry will not have much more than the odd date until this nasty mess with Voldemort is complete. If you want to discuss who will catch Harry under the mistletoe.....
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 5, 2004 7:55 am (#1214 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
There seems to be 'ship crisis. I think that Harry and Hermione will not happen. She and he interact as best friends and she is not snitty when he is with another girl. When Hermione went with Krum, Ron was angry, not Harry. Hermione stated that next time Ron should ask her first, even though Ron missed it. Harry noted himself in GoF that Hermione understood why Ron was mad more than Ron himself. When Hermione writes her novels to "Vicky", Ron gets jealous, not Harry. If Harry had feelings for her, even subconscious ones, he would become tetchy when she looked at other guys. The same goes for Hermione. Harry will likely end up with a girl that hadn't developed an obvious crush on him. It will also need to be a happier match than Cho. My guesses are Luna, because of the way he looked at her at the end OotP. He started seeing her differently than just Loony Luna. My other guess would be in agreement with SusanPotter, Susan Bones would be a good match. For one, Harry, who normally notices very little about other people, sees immediately that Susan is related to Madam Bones. She also got more page time in OotP. In any case, I think the next girl will be from DA.
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Susan Potter - Jul 5, 2004 9:05 am (#1215 of 2916)
Tornedo Susan Potter : good post 1196.
susan Thanks Tornedo…
Tornedo Firstly, I'd like to ask you, are you JKR in disguise? If you are and are giving us a gem of a clue, I won't argue with you; (By the way I'd say I really liked all your books) but would ask you when HBP will come out.
susan Ha ha ha… no I’m not JKR, I’m a 24 year old nanny from Boston… I wouldn’t mind JKR’s money thought-g-
tornedo If you are not JKR, here's what I'd like to say:
1) We know so little about Susan still, I mean, we are more familiar to Hanah Abbot. Plus, I don't see Harry confiding anything to Bones. I mean, he still doesn't tell all his secrets to Ginny. Hermione is the only girl with whom he shares most of his secrets
First off… I wouldn’t necessarily say we are more *familiar* with Hannah A. I think she just has more screen time then Susan, after all, what exactly do we know about Hannah? I think we have more background info on Susan than Hannah. Secondly I think JKR has set up for us to get to know Susan, she has introduced in a most peculiar way don’t you think? I think the big question is how important… my opinion is a love interest. Thirdly I think your H/Hr shipper is shinning through when you say that Harry shares most of his secretes with Hermione-g-…He didn’t tell her about his detentions… and it was Luna, a completely *NEW GIRL* who he talked about Sirius with… Harry had NO interest in confiding in Hagrid, Ron or HERMIONE, and through out the books there are a lot more cases where it shows Harry keeping mum especially when Hermione is concerned.
2) Susan and Harry's (only) conversation was all about Harry's Patronus... why don't we know what Susan Patronus is?--S.P.
Tornedo Well, we don't know patronuses of most of the people, Ron's for instance. Anyway, Susan might not have been able to conjure one...
Susan Yes we don’t know most of the Patronuses are… but NONE of the other DA members specifically had a conversation about Patronuses…even Ron. I just think its strange that we didn’t see hide nor’ hair from Susan when Harry is teaching them the Patronus charm, not even a “this is a lot easier then what I thought” or “lets see your patronus Harry” nothing from Susan… like I said its strange to me.
3) Then there are her friends, does anyone else find it odd that while we have the DOM!six there is *another* group of six... Ernie, Justin, Hannah, Susan, Terry and Anthony... that are always hanging around eachother-- S.P.
Tornedo That's not true. In case you haven't noticed, Terry and Anthony are in Ravenclaw and hang around with Michael Corner. The others are Hufflepuff, and they just happened to be in the same compartment.
susan Hmmm… I honestly don’t remember… I guess I’ll have to read the fifth book again, saying that I would like to add that the DOM!six weren’t “best buds” through out the fifth book either… and it doesn’t matter what houses they are from… Luna is not in Gryffindor. I just wonder how both groups will tie into the whole Hogwarts!Untied theme of the books, and find itstrange that JKR reminded us that they were there at the end. Especally susan... who we never hear from.
5)I am just surprised that this ship didn't get more shippers, when we got a very good although, brief picture of her in OOTP and found out that Harry and Susan has about as much chance of happening as any other ship.--S.P.
Tornedo Nope, no other ship than H/Hr possible, JKR said it, many missed it, she said :"Isn't it obvious" when asked about H/Hr ship. Many take it as negetive. But what is obvious is the fact that Harry is Hero and Hermione is the strongest female Character. Now tell me, what is obvious?
Susan again Ok I guess I was the one that missed it-g- I don’t remember her saying “Isn’t it obvious” when asked about H/Hr… could you elaborate? Give me a link or something? I just remember her saying that H/Hr is very platonic… but she wasn’t speaking for someone else… and her comment that there is something going on between Ron and Hermione….. Ron just doesn’t know it yet, then saying typical boy. Besides I wouldn't be bragging on how "obvious" H/HR is... JKR has a tendency of taking the "obvious" and blowing it up in our face.
MIke Miller said also Susan Potter: hm... good theory, but I'm not too sure we have enough info on Susan to pair her with our main character. It would be too late to introduce her IMO. The same with Luna, actually. I think if Harry get together with anyone, it will be someone who has been there the whole time.
Susan again Susan has been there the whole time… she was in the sorting ceremony… I can understand where your coming from when you say its “too late to introduce her” but remember that JKR hasn’t started Harry’s relationship with anyone… any ship from Harry/Hermione to Harry/Pansy will need to be work on… I think that any character is going to have to be developed, get to know her, ect, ect... yes, even Hermione, it will be a big change from friend to girlfriend.
Star crossed said Susan, you have very good evidence. Harry/Ginny never really totally clicked, but with what you show, I may start beliving in Harry/Susan. I never knew who to pair him with until this. So yay for you! You convinced me of a ship for Harry.
susan again I honestly don’t know if your being serious or not… but if you are… Harry/Susan can use as much support as the next ship. thanks
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Star Crossed - Jul 5, 2004 9:30 am (#1216 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Tornedo Nope, no other ship than H/Hr possible, JKR said it, many missed it, she said :"Isn't it obvious" when asked about H/Hr ship. Many take it as negetive. But what is obvious is the fact that Harry is Hero and Hermione is the strongest female Character. Now tell me, what is obvious?
So because of that they have to madly fall in love? Is this an unwritten rule of writing? Because rules were meant to be broken, and I think JKR broke that long ago.
susan again I honestly don’t know if your being serious or not… but if you are… Harry/Susan can use as much support as the next ship. thanks
Aww...You made me sort of sad. I was being serious. I don't joke about ships, if I like it, I'll be truthful, if I don't, I'll still be truthful. I think Harry might find something in Susan. Just don't know how it would work, probably through DA.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 5, 2004 11:50 am (#1217 of 2916)
I am Ron/Hermione shipper and I am sure that they will become a couple. But JKR never said, that Harry will be with someone we have already met but nobody has guessed it so far. (In this case, it will probably be Millicent Bulstrode, since I don't remember any other girl who isn't shipped with Harry). She talked about ships, and that she didn't want to spoil the fun, because she liked everybody's guesses. And then she changed the topic and told about something that is the heart of it all, and that nobody really guessed so far. She didn't mean any couple with it.
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Chris. - Jul 5, 2004 12:38 pm (#1218 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think Harry/Susan is a plausible 'ship and a lot of work went into your reasoning, Susan Potter. Well done!
I am a Harry/Ginny 'shipper though I do agree with other 'ships including Harry/Hermione.
I've heard of the Harry/Pansy or Millicent. But... I don't think it will happen.
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Green Eyes - Jul 5, 2004 5:40 pm (#1219 of 2916)
I think that if Harry were going to end up with an obscure female character that he has only been a classmate/DA member with through book 5 it would be a great disappointment. We are reading a fairy tale here and how do fairy tales generally end up? All together now, HAPPILY EVER AFTER! Whew! That's better
JKR never said that no one has guessed it right (in referring to the person). She referred that no one had got the story right ( in how/what circumstances would it happen). She didn't want to say because she enjoys the fan fictions. This leaves Ginny at the top of the list simply on the basis of a lack of character developement through books 1-4 and then a huge arc of developement in book 5. There is no real reason to develop the character of Ginny Weasley in book five in order to further Harry's story...Ginny could have been easily left in the background once again and saved JKR alot of pages! But she wasn't. I wasn't certain about Ginny until book 5.
Prior to that I only had the symbolic imagery from the chamber scene in COS as foreshadowing of something more between Harry and Ginny later. She is the Sleeping Beauty to his prince fighting the dragon in that scene. When the director of the film also added the bit with Ron and Hermione at the end I came away thinking...well, there you go. H/G R/Hr.
If JKR is going to give Harry a true love interest (even if it doesn't come to full bloom until late) she has to start developing it now. And I believe she has.
"Harry, I'm talking to you, can you hear me?" ......Harry looked at her. Perhaps, it was the effect of the chocolate....
Chocolate, my arse.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 5, 2004 8:34 pm (#1220 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You know what, Green Eyes, I'd like to say something about the librery incident here. I've just noticed it in my latest rereading session. Many H/G shippers talk about the lump in the throat that Harry has while talking to Ginny. They somehow see it as an evidence pointing towards H/G ship.
Nope, the reason for the lump in the throat is simple, it is noticed that just before Harry feels the lump in his throat, Fizzing Wizzbees are mentioned. We know that Fizzing Wizzbees are is the Password to DD's office in the chapter "Centaur and the Sneak", May be, Harry remembers that JKR doesn't mention it because she wants to mislead you all.
Ron just doesn’t know it yet, then saying typical boy.--Susan Potter
I still don't get it, If Ron did like Hermione, why hasn't he told Harry anything yet? By the way, JKR has never directly said that Ron likes Hermione, as I said, there is always a room for misinterpretations with JKR.
Now, tell me, is there any canon evidence that Ron likes Hermione that does not involve Krum? The only evidence we seem to have is that Ron seems to get jealous whenever Krum is mentioned. Like I said before, Ron was jealous at the ball not because of Krum but because both of his friends were in top table while he was not. He probably realized later that that was wrong teased Hermione because he wanted to cover his jealousy.
I don't think you got what I wanted to say did you? And by canon evidence, I meant the evidence in the books, not movies; there's a saperate thread for that.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 5, 2004 11:08 pm (#1221 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
There was that fight that Hermione and Ron had after the ball. Hermione states something to the effect of 'next time ask me to the ball first instead of waiting to the last minute'(not direct quote) Ron replied that Hermione missed the point. Harry then noted that He thought that Hermione may have understood the situation better than Ron did. Indicating that Hermione and Ron have a mutual and, undiscussed, affection for each other and Harry realizes in glimpses. They probably do not talk openly about because of the curse of dating ones best friends. OR Harry realized how pointless it is to talk to Ron about anything regarding him being a big dummy.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 6, 2004 12:03 am (#1222 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Sleeping Beauty--
"Next time there's a ball, ask me before any one else does and not as a last resort."--GoF
I think this is the line to which you are refering to?
Right, the explaination for this--We don't know what Ron said to Hermione before Harry entered the common room. What if Ron said something personal like "Why did you go with Krum when I asked you?".[This is not mentioned in any canon but is a speculation and might be possible].In that case, Hermione's response indicates that She is irritated with him, instead of being intrested in him which many R/H shippers speculate on reading the sentence.
By the way has any one noticed this?:
Cho Chang walked into the hall with her friend Marieta.Harry's stomach gave an unpleasant lurch, but she did not look over at him and sat with her back to him.
'Oh I forgot to ask you,' said Hermione brightly, glancing over at Ravenclaw table,'what happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'--OotP(Ch:26; Page:504 British version, First edition)
Hermione, we all know is an observant person.(Fluffy and the trap door)Surely, she's noticed Cho's less than friendly behaviour towards Harry there. She knows that Harry came early from his date with Cho. She has certainly put 2 and 2 together and concluded that Harry's date with Cho was a disaster. Yet, she asks Harry about his date "brightly". That means She's definately happy that Harry has broken up with Cho.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 6, 2004 12:33 am (#1223 of 2916)
I take "brightly" to mean that she's hoping there's a reasonable explanation she can help Harry with so that he and Cho stay together. I also think that after everything he's been through so far in OotP that her "brightly" is a nervous mannerism because she has no way of knowing if he'll flip out the way he did at Grimmauld Place.
I see no canon evidence that there is anything between Harry and Hermione. There are passages that may be open to interpretation such as the above, but no actual evidence.
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Chris. - Jul 6, 2004 2:56 am (#1224 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
You know what, Green Eyes, I'd like to say something about the library incident here. I've just noticed it in my latest re reading session. Many H/G shippers talk about the lump in the throat that Harry has while talking to Ginny. They somehow see it as an evidence pointing towards H/G ship.-Tornedo.
Okay, I agree here because Harry was emotional after seeing Snape's worst memory. After seeing that his father wasn't the saint that people made him out to be, he would bound to be upset. Talking to someone about it would make him relive the pensieve scene in his head all over again, which would have been painful seeing as Harry was shown his father's real ways.
As for Hermione asking Harry brightly about Cho. Was there gossip going round about the tearoom tantrum? Hermione may have heard a exageratted story and was in stiches because of it, but still wanted to asks Harry about it.
Just because Hermione talks about Cho "briskly" doesn't mean she wasn't pleased about Harry kissing Cho. Hermione usually takes a business-like approach to people's emotions. And she didn't wanted to be classed like Ron and his childish reactions. But why was Ron so happy for him? Was it because he thought there was no chance of an H/Hr 'ship after then? And the furtive look on the train, I think Ron gave the look to Harry because he wanted to warn Harry away from Hermione. He could have even told Ginny to go to the library rather than Hermione going. Didn't want them left alone
EDIT: And Tornedo, no offence, but there's "evidence" that Harry/Hermione 'shippers use which doesn't really point to the 'ship like Harry pulling Hermione away from Grawp, what any friend would do.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 6, 2004 3:31 am (#1225 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
And Tornedo, no offence, but there's "evidence" that Harry/Hermione 'shippers use which doesn't really point to the 'ship like Harry pulling Hermione away from Grawp, what any friend would do. --Prongs
I never said any thing about Harry pulling Hermione from Grawp as being evidence... For heaven's sake, Harry even put a hand out to stop Malfoy from being hurt in the forest in PS even though he's his worst enemy. When I meant evidence, I meant evidence which JKR has been giving throughout the 5 books, like Hippogryff being sign of love etc. Also, How do you the fact Harry has been thinking a lot about Hermione a lot... a lot more than he thinks about Ron, him thinking about her advice even while sleeping etc.
During the first 3 books and for the first half of the fourth book, Harry is closer to Ron than to Hermione, but after that, he seems to care about Hermione more than he cared for Ron. By the way, Harry and Hermione are always worried about each other and the only time Harry is worried about Ron in GoF and OotP is when Ron is attacked by the brain in DoM.
--Buckbeak--
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Chris. - Jul 6, 2004 3:37 am (#1226 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Just because it was Harry and Hermione who rode Buckbeak the Hippogriff to help Sirius means that they will get it together? I understand the hippogriff is a sign of love but I really can't see that as a sign.
Harry hadn't stopped caring less for any of them. At the start of OP, he is as angry with both of them and still had that anger throughout the school year. The only reason Harry keeps thinking about Hermione, in my opinion, is because she kept asking him questions...all the time.
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Star Crossed - Jul 6, 2004 5:44 am (#1227 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Cho Chang walked into the hall with her friend Marieta.Harry's stomach gave an unpleasant lurch, but she did not look over at him and sat with her back to him.
'Oh I forgot to ask you,' said Hermione brightly, glancing over at Ravenclaw table,'what happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'--OotP(Ch:26; Page:504 British version, First edition)
I don't think she knew. If she did, it was very cruel that she brought it up. Friends just talk about how dates go. It's an unwritten rule. And as for why is Ron so happy that Harry kissed Cho and Hermione seems so business like. As for Ron, his best mate just got kissed by a pretty girl! It's cause for celebration! For Hermione, she's a girl who has been to the loo enough times to know that Cho cries a lot. Hermione seems to be trying to understand what Cho is going through, and is probably thinking how quickly Cho is trying to move on, and it just doesn't work.
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 6, 2004 5:59 am (#1228 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Over the last few posts a number of quotes have been mentioned.... so I thought it might be useful to include these quotes ....
Mike.... the quote (I think) you were refering to comes from JK's interview with Jeremy Paxman on BBC pre OotP release :
(Link to full transcript)
Jeremy Paxman: "So there will be some pairing up will there in this book"?
JKR: "Well in the fullness of time".
JP: "Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that"?
JKR: "I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues".
Interesting indeed.... I do believe however that she was talking in general about fan theories in regards to the series when she says "some have got quite close". I wasn't a member of the forum pre OotP days, so I don't know if Ginny was in the running at that point, so if she [Jo], was talking about ships... if Ginny wasn't being considered then she could say "no one had got it right". Also Luna hadn't been introduced, so she wouldn't have been a candidate at that point either.
I do think she was talking about theories in general. I remember watching that show on TV & there was a pause between her discussing the 'ships & the "one thing no one has guessed" ... but hey that's just my interpretation... I could be wrong. Plus when she states that "everything has been building up to it" it makes me think she is talking about theories of how it will all end .... I really don't see Harrys ship being the crux of Voldys downfall... but then again
The other quote comes from the JK's 2003 interview with Katie Couric .... (Link to Full Transcript)
Rowling: ".... yes, he does have certain adolescent, um, rights of passage happen to him".
Couric: "Any snogging with Hermione"?
Rowling: "Hermione and Harry?! Do you think so"?
Couric: "No I’m kidding".
Rowling: "Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more tension there"
Here JK appears quite taken aback at the suggestion of Harry & Hermione. True, she doesn't out & out say that Ron & Hermione are going to get together... who knows, they might not! However she does point out that there is "more tension there" as in there is 'something' going on between Ron & Hermione that doesn't exist between Harry & Hermione .... but she's not really going to say if (or when) either will act on it... she enjoys teasing us too much methinks.
Theres a video clip of this question & answer available here.
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Green Eyes - Jul 6, 2004 7:35 am (#1229 of 2916)
Tornedo...the lump in Harry's throat in the library has more to do with his state of mind...being depressed. He receives the gift of the Easter egg from Mrs. Weasley, through Ginny and he gets emotional...he's been repressing his feelings about what he saw in the pensieve and the kind gesture from Mrs. Weasley/Ginny brings his emotions out. Ginny goes to the library to try and cheer him up, thinking he is down about his latest fight with Cho...she doesn't know he's depressed about what he saw in the pensieve...even Ron and Hermione don't know this because he hasn't told them. Think about what she is doing...Ginny, who has had a crush on Harry for so long, thinks he is depressed over a fight with his latest girlfriend (CHO) and she goes to the library to cheer him up. A huge step for her. In fact, a case could be made that Harry's emotions are because of Ginny's unselfish gesture...but I digress.
Ginny's conversation with Harry in the library is their first conversation alone since he woke her in the Chamber in book 2. She has been gradually brought into his line of vision in book 5 through Quidditch, through her experience with possession, through her brothers discussions of her power and now towards the end of the book we see the two of them have a conversation alone...and look what happens. It takes him about a minute and half of Ginny's quiet prodding to get him to open up. She doesn't react the way Hermione does to his need to talk to Sirius. Ginny doesn't judge Harry's intentions, she simply offers to help him and she bolsters him psychologically by telling him "...anything is possible if you have enough nerve." And based on the fact that we now know he is the one who has to vanquish the DARK LORD, somebody needs to start telling him YES YOU CAN!!!!! I see it happening here already.
JKR is showing us what can happen now that Ginny is willing to talk to Harry and be a friend to him. He doesn't notice her in the scene until she speaks...He hasn't noticed her much in the books because she has been mute around him. I think that JKR is setting them up for more one on one conversations in book 6 and we'll see what happens.
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Robert Dierken - Jul 6, 2004 9:36 am (#1230 of 2916)
Other possible theories:
(1) Harry does not have a 'ship until a few years after the seventh book ends, and the links up with Gabrielle Delacour!
(2) Harry links up with one of the two (as yet unnamed) girls who asked him for a date to the Yule Ball!
(3) Harry links up with Katie!
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 6, 2004 10:41 am (#1231 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Fawkes Forever,
Your quote about something being "the heart of it all" was the spark that sent me looking into the Harry/Pansy 'ship.
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haymoni - Jul 6, 2004 10:56 am (#1232 of 2916)
Marcus - where have you been???
If you haven't yet, get over to the "Pansy" thread - I think you have some converts!
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Sir Tornado - Jul 6, 2004 11:07 am (#1233 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Green Eyes, I love to argue with you. Ginny did not go to library to cheer Harry but to give him his easter egg.
I think we had this disscussion a week ago. May be we should copy this and keep posting every other week. He Hee.
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Chris. - Jul 6, 2004 1:43 pm (#1234 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Tornedo, yes she did go to the library to give Harry his Easter egg but was that her front?
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total hatred - Jul 6, 2004 2:33 pm (#1235 of 2916)
Here my rebuttal to he one that said that my jealousy angle is pathetic. This from OotP from the chapter Seen and Unforseen. "Look-You upset Cho when you said you were going to meet, she tried to make you jealous. It was her way of tring to find out how much you liked her." It may be slightly irrelevant to the angle but it legitimizes that girls uses jealousy to find out their chances with the boys.
As a response to said killer evidence to H/Hr ship, it can be turned our best weapon against R/Hr shippers. all Miss rowling says is that there is tension between Ron and Hermione but do you think it is really romantically linked. About the fact that she was taken back by the suggestion of Harry and Mione snogging, it can also interpreted that she was surprised that someone had an idea of what she delibrately tried to write. You also don't need to kiss each other to show that you love each other.
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total hatred - Jul 6, 2004 2:45 pm (#1236 of 2916)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 6, 2004 5:46 pm
Edit: I moved this post from the Luna Lovegood thread. Denise P
I agree. How many are here are H/L shippers? Barely a minority of the posters.
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Green Eyes - Jul 6, 2004 6:32 pm (#1237 of 2916)
I thought I had posted a reply earlier but it's not showing up so I must've deleted by mistake...
Tornedo...you are a great debater for someone so young...have you considered law school?
As for Ginny's motives when she goes to the library...she does go to give him the egg but why does she go directly from Quidditch practice (looking very windswept) to getting a package that "only just got through Umbridge's screening process" to the library to find Harry?
You have to infer from the information given to us in the this scene that she is trying to give him the egg in an effort to cheer him up. She thinks (like Hermione and Ron) that it's Cho that he's down about. Now when she arrives she doesn't know what they might actually talk about but when she gives him the egg and he appears "emotional" she asks if he's okay and then we all know the rest.
Again, this scene is the first time Harry and Ginny have conversed alone since he awakened her in the COS. It also speaks volumes about their previous interactions (he doesn't notice her until she actually speaks to him) and sets the table for future interactions. If Harry has a positive experience talking to and confiding in Ginny, then chances are this will happen again - especially if he continues to chafe at Hermione's admonitions.
Then we ask again...why does Harry have this scene with Ginny? Or for that matter any of the scenes in which she interacts with him? None of them are mandatory for the plot to be furthered...she could have easily been left out if she was unimportant.
As for those who contine to expect a H/Hr "surprise." There seems to be a willingness to ignore, not only the canon, the movie scenes but also JKR's own words in interviews and chats in which she has repeatedly stated that H/Hr are platonic, just friends, more tension between Ron and Hermione etc. She answered the questions about H/Hr. If she didn't want you to know...she would have avoided a direct answer. She does this when we ask about H/G directly, or about any other part of the books she doesn't want to reveal.
We could just keep re posting the same posts because I suppose those who have their hearts set on H/Hr will not give it up until the last page of the last book is read!
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mike miller - Jul 6, 2004 6:38 pm (#1238 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Thanks Fawkes!! That was the quote I had seen before. If the timing of that interview was pre-OotP, then do we have to exclude all new characters that were introduced in OotP? Can we trust JKR's comments in the interview format? She definately has more of the story in her mind than has been put on paper for all to read, maybe it just seems to her that we should know the character she's tlaking about.
If we must limit our search for Harry's 'ship to characters introduced in the first four books, that alone could be the single strongest evidence for the Pansy theory.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 6, 2004 7:32 pm (#1239 of 2916)
"As for those who continue to expect a H/Hr "surprise." There seems to be a willingness to ignore, not only the canon, the movie scenes but also JKR's own words in interviews and chats ..."
Unless JKR come out and answers a question with a direct answer, (like she did with mark Evans) it doesn't count for me. If R/H is so obvious, why didn't anything happen in book 5 between them? I think most of us expected it to. She never answers the shipping questions with a direct answer, except when she said Draco is not Tom Felton, so forget about H/D.
What's the big deal about saying there's more tension between R/H? That's not some big scoop she gave us. Anybody who reads the books knows that there's tension there. We might see different kinds of tension though. And saying there's tension there is not saying they are going to get together.
With any luck, maybe we'll know more by Christmas! (crossing fingers)
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Mrs. George Weasley - Jul 6, 2004 11:22 pm (#1240 of 2916)
Is just obsessed with the magical world that her muggle eyes is unable to see...
I just have to say... I am a HUGE R/Hr fan.. I can't see them possibly not ending up together... Perhaps just because they act the exact same way me and my significant other tend to act... but maybe not.
There are just so many hints, them bickering (doesn't Harry point out they act like Mr and Mrs Weasley?), Ron getting horribly jealous, Hermione being annoyed Ron didn't realize she was a 'girl', the perfume... And as for Hermione being jealous of Cho, I never ever got that feeling by reading the books.
Also, JK Rowling seems to be giving off strong R/Hr vibes in interviews and such, and it's hard not to notice how complimentary the two of them are. I really don't think Harry and Hermione have any chemistry other than the friendship type!
Also, H/Hr shippers tend to say things like "The hero (Harry) always gets the heroine (Hermione)!" Well I don't argue that Hermione isn't a heroine... But that rule isn't exactly right, is it? The hero gets the *damsel*. Hermione definately isn't a damsel... But perhaps Ginny Weasley is (CoS). So Ron and Hermione live on!
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Muggle Doctor - Jul 7, 2004 12:29 am (#1241 of 2916)
Ron/Hermione: lots of little clues as mentioned above, plus it throws a muggle-born wizard together with a pure-blood (the thing the Slytherins despise most). Maybe that point is sledgehammer obvious, but I still think it is valid.
Harry/?
Not Hermione, for reasons stated above.
Probably not Ginny, unless something happens to make her fancy him again (she owes him too much for her to be able to start a romantic relationship: there's too much emotional baggage).
Luna? A distinct possibility. Oddball she may be, but she has lost at least one parent and can sympathise (to a certain extent) with Harry's loss of his parents and Sirius: recall that he didn't feel anywhere near as bad over Luna mentioning Sirius' death as anyone else. She may seem gullible and willing to believe just about anything, but it may mean that she will believe/stand up for Harry, no matter what. And she WAS willing to use her father's magazine (the Quibbler) as an alternative media vehicle for Harry to be heard. She didn't HAVE to do that.
Susan Bones, or possibly some other girl who has lost one or more parents or relatives to Death Eaters/Voldemort. Again there is the common bond of shared loss.
My bet for Harry is Luna; I think he will eventually see behind the ethereal vagueness, especially as he's started to feel sorry for her (recall that he offered to help her look for her things at the end of the year). There is CERTAINLY an understanding evolving between these two, if nothing else, and Harry desperately needs a female friend who is closer to his own level of technical/intellectual competence than Hermione. Great things are expected of him, but Hermione always seems to do better (except at the cutting edge of Defence...). Great things are not necessarily expected of Ron, and he doesn't mind so much that Hermione walks all over him academically - he KNOWS he's not in the running! Hermione gives just about everyone else an inferiority complex, and I don't think either of the boys have entirely shaken their view of her as an interfering busybody who has no idea about "people". (They are wrong).
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S.E. Jones - Jul 7, 2004 1:23 am (#1242 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Edited Jul 7, 2004 2:19 am
Thought you might all find these 'shipping related citations very interesting....
Barnes and Noble Chat, October 2000:
sammyohyeah: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of GOF? I love your books, btw, and two of them I've read stright through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
jkrowling: well done on the reading speed! yes, something's 'going on'...but Ron doesn't realise it yet...typical boy
brian: Will Ron ever get a girlfriend?
jkrowling: I'm laughing again... why wouldn't he?! though he's not doing too well at the moment, is he? but then, Fleur Delacour was really aiming a bit high
BBC News (Paxman), June 2003:
JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?
JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
Columbus Dispatch, October 1999:
Q: Will Harry find romance in book four?
A: He tries, but he doesn't get very far. They're all kind of after the wrong people, as in life. Hermione gets the first date, and it's quite a cool one because I thought I owed her a bit of fun.
Comic Relief, October 2002:
Zsenya - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
JKR - The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire, Zsenya!
Glynnis L - Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny Weasley?
JKR - You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?
Dateline NBC (Couric) - transcript, June 2003:
Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?”
Rowling: (slight frown) “Hermione and Harry! Do you think so?”
Couric: “No I’m kidding.
Rowling: “Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more potential (or did she say “tension”) there”.
Press Club, October 1999:
JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]
Scholastic 1, February 2000:
Q: Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?
A: In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)
World Day, March 2004:
renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too.
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
polly weasley: Will Harry fall for another girl in book six, or will he be too busy for romance?
JK Rowling replies -> He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?
hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sight*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!
JKRowling.com (FAQ page), 2004:
Q: Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
A: I can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked this one out yet, but I’m not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 7, 2004 3:09 am (#1243 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Tornedo, yes she did go to the library to give Harry his Easter egg but was that her front?--Prongs
Well, if that's a question to me, I'd say no, that's not her front, but a genuine reason.
Total Hatred, that's a perfect post #1234. The only thing wrong in it is Rowling is married and is no longer 'Miss' . Otherwise, I agree with you completely.
I'd like to add to your point though and that's Hermione mentions Ginny going with Corner to Harry, NOT Ron. Dropping some hints to Harry? Definately. She's in effect telling him "Ginny waited for you for three years, you did nothing about it, and now she's gone. Don't do that to me." In fact, I definately remember Hermione telling Harry Ginny had "Given up on Harry ages ago." (Sorry, can't give you exact quote. I'm at my Grandad's right now and haven't brought the books here) Hermione's vere subtle while dropping hints isn't she? I bet a lot of people missed that; including all the R/Hr 'shippers here and even most of the H/Hr 'shippers.
Also, I completely agree with you when you say that JKR, being surprised at the mention of H/Hr ship. If that wasn't the Ship, JKR would've been amused, not surprised that we think it's gonna be H/Hr. Then, she tries to draw our attention from her surprise by pointing us towards R/Hr ship. She's clever isn't she?
Tornedo...you are a great debater for someone so young...have you considered law school?--Green Eyes
Nope, I don't want to spend rest of my life lying before Judges and Juries. (No offence meant for any Lawyers on this Forum)
Then we ask again...why does Harry have this scene with Ginny? Or for that matter any of the scenes in which she interacts with him? --Green Eyes.
Heck, they're characters in a story, you can't blame them for interacting with each other can you?
None of them are mandatory for the plot to be furthered...she could have easily been left out if she was unimportant. --Green Eyes.
Please tell me you're kidding. Isn't Harry important for the plot to be furthered? There was me thinking he was the Hero of the story... As for Ginny? Someone needed to tell Fred and George. They were to cause the diversion. Ron would've told Hermione thinking She would help. Harry wouldn't've told F&G himself for obvious reasons. Thus the conversation with Ginny.
There seems to be a willingness to ignore, not only the canon, the movie scenes but also JKR's own words in interviews and chats in which she has repeatedly stated that H/Hr are platonic. --Green Eyes.
Harry and Hermione are platonic. "Are" refers to present tense. Relationships and their natures could change in the future...
We could just keep re posting the same posts because I suppose those who have their hearts set on H/Hr will not give it up until the last page of the last book is read! --Green Eyes.
I can say the same thing for R/Hr shippers. Well, no, actually, if Ron deflates his ego a bit, then I might just...
She never answers the shipping questions with a direct answer, except when she said Draco is not Tom Felton, so forget about H/D. --Coolbeans.
Never read that before. Could you quote?
Great, Coolbeans, Tracie, Total Hatred, we now have two more R/Hr 'shippers (Mrs George Weasley, Muggle Doctor) jumping down our throats.
Sarah, wow, good many quotes there. *Refuses to coment before anyone else*
--CHEERS--
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 7:02 am (#1244 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Mrs. George Weasley - H/Hr shippers tend to say things like "The hero (Harry) always gets the heroine (Hermione)!" Well I don't argue that Hermione isn't a heroine... But that rule isn't exactly right, is it?
Well, I think it safe to say that the Hero doesn't get the shrinking violet.
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haymoni - Jul 7, 2004 8:42 am (#1245 of 2916)
Or maybe he gets the Shrinking Pansy!
- can't believe you left that out there, Marcus!
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 9:49 am (#1246 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 7, 2004 9:51 am
More like "Shrieking Pansy", don't you think? ;-)
I can't imagine Pansy ever "shrinking" from anything, unless we are talking about the famous missing bite after the bubotuber pus letter.
Rowling had to keep her off-stage in the latter part of OoP for that very reason. If Pansy had ever been on-stage, her tendency to be forthright would have caused her to spill the beans far too soon.
Oh where, oh where is the Half Blood Prince?
Oh where, oh where can it be?
With so many questions
To lay to rest,
Oh where, oh can it be?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 7, 2004 4:22 pm (#1247 of 2916)
I am not certain if this is the appropriate thread for this theorem. I have been pondering for a long while. In the chapter in Order of the Phoenix were Moody is showing Harry the photo of the original Order of the Phoenix Moody mentions to Harry that Dorcas Meadowes was murdered by Voldemort personally.
I have developed a two pronged theory on why Voldemort felt the need to murder her personally.
J.K. Rowling was asked if any of the teachers at Hogwarts were married. Her response was that some of the teachers are married but, that their martial statuses are kept as a closely guarded secret.
The reason behind this I believe is that Dumbledore was married to Dorcas Meadowes and that her murder at the hands of Voldemort was motivated by two factors.
First, Tom Riddle/Voldemort has always feared Albus Dumbledore. This under most circumstances would negate a direct attack on Dumbledore because, the likelihood of failure was a high probability given that Dumbledore had alrady defeated Grindlewald. Since Voldemort was aware of the possibility that a direct attack would fail, he opted for an indirect attack on Dumbledore. An attack that Voldemort believed would remove the threat that Albus Dumbledore posed to his plans. Because, his grief at the loss of his wife would be so great that he would naturally give up the fight.
Second, I believe that Dorcas Meadowes was one of the organizational powers behind the original Order of the Phoenix much like Hermione is to Dumbledore's Army.
Again if this is not the right place for such a theory I would gladly re post it to somewhere more appropriate.
Best Regards, Nathan
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 7, 2004 6:36 pm (#1248 of 2916)
Tornedo: From JKR's World Chat Day transcript
Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco Malfoy? JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters. Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! The trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco is NOT Tom Felton! (My daughter likes TF very much too, because he taught her how to use a diablo)
I think we can definitely count Hr/D out by this. Nothing she's said about H/Hr compares to this.
BTW, what is a diablo?
Interesting theory Nathan!
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MadelineRock - Jul 7, 2004 7:05 pm (#1249 of 2916)
A diablo is like a really big spool (like with thread) that you use with a rope to do tricks with, kind of like a mix between juggling and a yo-yo. Heres a link to see what they look like if you're interested:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Why would the teachers have to keep their marital status a huge secret? Unless they're married to each other...
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 7, 2004 7:53 pm (#1250 of 2916)
Madeline Rock,
The question came from an online interview J.K. Rowling did with Comic Relief in March of 2001. Unfortunately the actual transcript of the interview was taken off the Comic Relief site. But, the question was included on the Harry Potter Lexicon page on the Staff of Hogwarts.
Q: Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses? JKR: Good question - yes, a few of them but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why. (CR)
If the names of their spouses were acknowledged and made public, it would make them targets of Voldemort and the Death Eaters. This is especially true of Professors Dumbledore, McGonagall, Snape, Hagrid, as well as Remus Lupin and Alastor Moody.
Voldemort and the Death eaters have shown themselves not to be adverse to anihilating entire family. As Moody indicated wehen he showed Harry the photograph of the Original Order of the Phoenix. Remember he said Marlene McKinnon and her entire family were killed two weeks after the photograph was taken. Edgar Bones was killed along with his entire family as well.
Best Regards, Nathan
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 7, 2004 9:27 pm (#1251 of 2916)
Does this answer necessarily mean that the teachers have spouses, or could it mean that some of them had spouses, and the spouses are dead?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 7, 2004 9:30 pm (#1252 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
It is probably similar to most people. Some are married, divorced, single, widowed and the secrecy surronding it could be for protection and/or professionalism. How would it be if a student was disgruntled about a grade and sent death-eater daddy to pay the family a visit?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 8, 2004 12:54 am (#1253 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
JKR-> I've got plans for all my characters. Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to have answered.--From Coolbeans' post
Who does Miss Radcliffe refer to?
Marcus, is that you in your portrait?
Interesting theory Nathan, except I belive that the Order of Phoenix was formed on Dumbledore's initiation only. He seems to be the person who would form organisations to fight against Voldemort. He likes unity doesn't he? Meadowes might've been second-in-command though.
Definately, D/Hr is out. Thats direct answer by JKR for a change leaving no space for misinterpretations.
--Thanks--
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S.E. Jones - Jul 8, 2004 1:00 am (#1254 of 2916)
Let it snow!
My guess is that Ms Radcliffe is either Mark Radcliffe's (producer of HP movies's) daughter or Dan Radcliffe's sister (assuming he has one, which I don't know). Or she could just be someone JKR knows or knows of (i.e. anybody).... Either way, she only gave a direct answer because she was asked a direct answer by someone specific. Now, if we could just get this person to ask a second qustion for us.....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 8, 2004 1:16 am (#1255 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Dan Radcliffe has no sister. He is the only child. May be she was supposed to say Ms Watson and said Ms Radcliffe by mistake. Damn, why didn't they ask about the R/Hr ship? Then you lot would be convinced that R/Hr ship is not possible.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 8, 2004 1:39 am (#1256 of 2916)
Let it snow!
What about Mark Radcliffe, does he have a daughter?
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Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 1:48 am (#1257 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
He has two daughters: Porscha and Brittany.
Back on subject... I never saw a D/Hr 'ship anyway. Hermione hates Draco unless he redeems himself which is very unlikely.
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total hatred - Jul 8, 2004 3:42 am (#1258 of 2916)
Draco and Hermoine? What a joke. The odds will be as same as Lord Voldemort reforming.
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The Artful Dodger - Jul 8, 2004 4:35 am (#1259 of 2916)
Hermione too much hates Draco, she won't ever end up with him.
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Courtney22 - Jul 8, 2004 7:27 am (#1260 of 2916)
I don't think that Draco and Hermione will end up together...but perhaps Draco finds himself attracted to the muggle born Hermione and hates himself for it and therefore goes out of his way to be mean to her. That might explain why he seems to single her out more than any other muggle born at the school.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 8, 2004 11:37 am (#1261 of 2916)
Tornedo wrote - Jul 8, 2004 12:54 am (#1252 of 1260)
Interesting theory Nathan, except I believe that the Order of Phoenix was formed on Dumbledore's initiation only. He seems to be the person who would form organizations to fight against Voldemort. He likes unity doesn't he? Meadowes might've been second-in-command though.
Tornedo, I agree that Dumbledore in all likelihood initiated the Order of the Phoenix. However, such a large undertaking could possibily be difficult for someone in Albus Dumbledore's position as Headmaster of Hogwarts.
But, I think his second in command who I agree may have been Dorcas Meadowes would have taken on may of the daily organizational and administrative tasks to prevent Albus from becoming fatigued
As to the unity issue you are quite correct about Albus Dumbledore likes unity. However, such unity of vision is still achievable when more than one person is involved with the formation of an Organization.
Take for example the command structure of the Combined Allied Expeditionary Force in the year leading up to the Allied invasion of France in 1944. The task was so momentous that General Eisenhower could not alone have successfully planned the operation. He entrusted the daily administrative details to trusted lieutenants like Field Marshal Montgomery and General Smith. That being said General Eisenhower insured that unity remained intact and undamaged by retaining the deciding voice and vote in all matters.
The same can be said of Albus Dumbledore he likes unity and harmony. He insures that such unity and harmony remain intact by having the deciding voice within Order meetings. But, he is willing I believe to entrust the daily administrative affairs to trusted subbordinates such as Mad Eye Moody, Remus Lupin, and others who share his same vision of the Wizarding World that is free from the shadow of Voldemort and the Death Eaters.
On another subject, in the entitled At the Solstice will come a new, a series of interesting points was raised by Tornedo. when he compared Harry to Sir. Gawain
Tornedo - Jul 6, 2004 11:15 am (#58 of 64)
Emily, that's exactly what I thought. But then, Sarah posted that the answer to "sword and the stone" is Arthur. But then the Spider gave the answer "Right continent, Wrong airport." That makes me think that there is a Weasley conected to that clue somehow
Prongs, Thanks for the clue and the link
Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is filled with magic and symbolism. Morgan le Faye and Merlin are responsible for the magic of the Green Knight. There are three literal hunts (deer, boar, and fox), three symbolic hunts (the attempts to seduce Gawain), and three hits of the Green Knight's ax. The deer is timid, the boar is ferocious, and the fox is cunning and sly. The characteristics of the animals are symbolic of Gawain and the challenges set before him.--Prong's Link
Comparing Sir Gawain to Harry, we find that--
There are three literal hunts (deer, boar, and fox)-- Prongs' link
-> This is explained by Prongs
Three symbolic hunts (the attempts to seduce Gawain)
-> Three girls are going to have crush/fall in love with Harry. We've seen 2 already- Ginny and Cho. Who's the third? We've got an entire thread to argue that ('Ship-'Ship exploring relationships) on this forum.
The third girl possibly could be Luna Lovegood given the nature of Harry's reactions towards her at the end of Ordetr of the Phoenix.
Best Regards, Nathan
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 8, 2004 1:25 pm (#1262 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Courtney,
Rowling has pretty much put the kaboosh on the Draco/Hermione 'ship.
Draco hates Hermione mainly because she is the close friend of his arch-enemy AND is muggle-born AND bests his little pure-blooded hide at every subject AND smacked him in the face in front of everybody AND ... .
I am not saying secret attraction isn't impossible, but it is hardly necessary. :-)
Marcus
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 8, 2004 1:32 pm (#1263 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I think although Hermione and Ron will have a go of it, it will fail envietably. It is one of those "like the idea of you not the reality of you". I think Hermione will go out with a Ravenclaw that she can identify with. Someone with real brains to stimulate her intellect. Ron will end up with a girl with her nose on straight, but not necessarily a looker, maybe a quidditch fan?
Wow that was jumbled.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 8, 2004 2:17 pm (#1264 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Sleeping Beauty - I think although Hermione and Ron will have a go of it, it will fail.
I certainly agree, Beauty. Ron and Hermione just are not balanced enough. She's a super achiever. He's a super-cutup. If he doesn't start excelling at more than comic relief, their relationship is doomed.
Now his becoming the Quidditch hero at the end of OoP is a start. Let's hope he can build on it.
Marcus
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S.E. Jones - Jul 8, 2004 2:36 pm (#1265 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Marcus: Ron and Hermione just are not balanced enough.
I don't know. For a good relationship you have to balance and counterbalance, both, not just in the quantity of personality traits but also in the magnitude of those traits - see my arguments against Lupin/Tonks for an example). Harry and Hermione balance great (which is what makes them such great and close friends), but they don't counterbalance. This is my biggest arguement against a H/Hr 'ship. Ron and Hermione I think balace very well and counterbalance too. I've already stated my points, so I won't re-state them, yet again....
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total hatred - Jul 8, 2004 2:38 pm (#1266 of 2916)
I believe he can't build on it. He is such a show off and only if he deflate his extremely big ego, R/Hr ship will prosper
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S.E. Jones - Jul 8, 2004 2:40 pm (#1267 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Big ego? The guy has no sense of self and no self-esteem... How can he have a big ego? You have to think a lot of yourself to have a big ego and he thinks very little of himself, hence the lack of confidence....
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total hatred - Jul 8, 2004 2:52 pm (#1268 of 2916)
That is my opinion. I agree do with you that he lack self esteem but he seems you asking for attention. Damm I should have said he is an attention seeker. all talk no substance.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 8, 2004 2:56 pm (#1269 of 2916)
I swear we're reading completely different books, total.
I see Ron as a very warm and caring person who struggles to form his own identity as part of a very large family. He and Hermione complement each other, and I agree totally with Sarah as to how they counterbalance each other.
Ron is a sweetie, and he's feeling his way through puberty, through the coming of a war, and through his own insecurities. He isn't the only one who has insecurities, though, and that's part of why he and Hermione mesh.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 8, 2004 2:57 pm (#1270 of 2916)
Let it snow!
He asks for attention because he has no confidence or sense of self. If you never knew who you were, wouldn't you be constantly asking for others to tell you? It's a fairly common thing, actually. You sometimes see something similar with middle children in large families, they're never old enough, they're never young enough, so what are they?....
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 8, 2004 3:15 pm (#1271 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
S.E. Jones, I couldn't agree more.
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The Artful Dodger - Jul 8, 2004 3:16 pm (#1272 of 2916)
Weeny Owl, your absolutely rigth about Ron! I also believe that he and Hermione would go together well. And there's already a lot going on between them (especially in PoA, when Hermione tells Harry and Ron that Buckbeak is going to be slaughtered).
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Courtney22 - Jul 8, 2004 3:16 pm (#1273 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus I didn't really think it was likely I just thought it would be funny...and serve him right to be attracted to someone he was brought up to hate
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 8, 2004 5:42 pm (#1274 of 2916)
S.E. Jones, you are right Ron does lack self esteem but, it is possible that he will finally shed himself of the lack of self confidence that has plagued him in book six.
He reminds me in this regard to Neville. If one looks at Neville in the first two books he is face with a poor memory and the expectations of a severe grandmother who expects him to carry on the family tradition and excel. Yet, until the Order of the Phoenix Neville has failed to meet to the high standards that were set by his parents and as such he in some sense views himself as a disappointment to his family.
The same can be said of Ron Weasley, untill Order of the Phoenix he has viewed himself largely as a disappointment to his family. Prior making the house team and the Battle of the Department Mysteries viewed himself as merely another in the long line of Weasley's who had been sorted into Gryffindor. Yet, he has slowly been gaining more self confidence. The defeat of McGongall's chess set in Philospher's Stone was the first step in the process of his achieving self esteem. A process that has undoubtedly accelerated by his conduct and participation in the events that occurred throughout Order of the Phoenix.
Harry, Hermione, and Ginny have the ability to encourage the development of self confidence in others. They will be vital to the further flowering of Neville and Ron's character. Also, in Neville's case Ron played a small but, instrumental role at the Quidditch match that decided the cup by encouraging Neville to stand up to Malfoy.
Best Regards, Nathan
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Denise P. - Jul 8, 2004 6:30 pm (#1275 of 2916)
Ravenclaw Pony
Sleeping Beauty - I think although Hermione and Ron will have a go of it, it will fail.
Cool! Now, we have three in the club who think this. You, me and Marcus LOL
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 8, 2004 11:48 pm (#1276 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Great, let us have a party when we find out that we are right Oops, I just noticed a comma splice. Man, my grammar and spelling are becoming lax whenever I post.
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Chris. - Jul 9, 2004 4:18 am (#1277 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I re-read this whole thread and Phew! it took me a while.
A while ago, someone asked if we would see any of Sirius's past girlfriends. He was smart, good-looking and had a good sense of humour...sometimes. There was at least one girl who was eyeing him hopefully when he was sitting his OWLs.
Any ideas?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 9, 2004 11:43 am (#1278 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, I'm back. My Phone went all blank and the bloody Phone Company took 2 days to sort out that problem. No internet connection during that time . I gather that I missed much here during that time.
Draco and Hermoine? What a joke. The odds will be as same as Lord Voldemort reforming. -- Total Hatred
What a coincidence. Actually, just the day before, one of by friends was ranting on about how he belives Voldemort will turn good in the seventh book. To avoid being bored off, I directed him to this forum. So, don't be shocked if someone comes along and says that.
Now, some talk about egos going on there? Ron's ego not good enough for some? Well, I think it is one of the important points which point towards H/Hr ending. Plot is simple. Ron and Hermione go out in HBP. Now, we've had enough time to analyse both of them. Hermione is the cleverest witch and loves to brag about her acadamic achievements. Ron hardly ever achieves anything acadamically. Ron gets jealous easily. So, in HBP, Hermione err, has some good class/test and Ron doesn't go well in that. Hermione brags about it with Harry and Ron. Ron's ears go red; always a danger sign. Then, Draco (or someone else) drives home this point. Ron gets another jealousy burst. The result? Nightmare for the trio, Game, Set and Match for H/Hr shippers. Any one buy that?
I think Hermione will go out with a Ravenclaw that she can identify with. Someone with real brains to stimulate her intellect.--Sleeping Beauty.
Well, the same friend I mentioned before in this post (the one ranting about Voldie turning good) had an interesting theory to make, one never thought about on this thread. (Yeah, I'm fresh from a Harry Potter prediction session with my friends, they've got some good ones too, mind you) He reckons it's gonna be Harry/Pansy, Ron/Luna and intrestingly Terry Boot/Hermione G. The last one, he is prepared to swear that Terry has a crush on Hermione. His argument? Simple, he says Terry looked at Hermione with a look of admiration on his face. He's in Ravenclaw, so, he's definately clever, and also it also seems that Hermione likes him. (I don't see how he figured that out) My friend also adds that a H/Hr or R/Hr 'ship is not possible because thaey are friends and there would be a strain in their friendship if Hermione goes with either of them. I tend to agree with him there.
--CHEERS--
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Weeny Owl - Jul 9, 2004 12:25 pm (#1279 of 2916)
There's a huge difference between friendship and romance. If Harry and Ginny were to become a couple and Ron and Hermione became a couple, think of all the fun double dates they could have.
I believe that the trio's friendship is strong enough not to get bogged down with jealousy over who is dating whom.
I was thinking about people I know in real life who seem to be opposites, and my thoughts turned to my own parents who were married for forty-five years when my father died. You couldn't find two people more like Ron and Hermione. My father was an avid sports fan, didn't like reading, loved cars, watched TV, and liked country music. My mother hates sports, is an avid reader, couldn't care less about cars, hates TV, and detests country music. They had few similar interests, but what they did have was a love of family, the same basic political and religious views, and the same goals as far as what they wanted out of life. They had their ups and downs, but they had something that endured. I see Ron and Hermione the same way.
It doesn't matter if Ron doesn't like to study or if Hermione isn't an avid Quidditch fan. People don't have to be carbon copies of each other to have enduring relationships. What matters are things that go beyond mutual interests. Hermione is intellectual, Ron isn't; Ron is a lovable goofball, Hermione is serious... they complement each other, give each other something that is lacking in their own lives, and have a yin-yang thing that makes then ideally suited.
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thetheatre62442 - Jul 9, 2004 2:15 pm (#1280 of 2916)
Couldn't agree more with Weeny Owl. Very very smart thinking you've got.
But can someone please tell me WHY everyone is thinking Harry and Ginny will end up together? Don't get me wrong, I love Ginny, but her and Harry I jsut can't see happening.
And Luna??? She's mad. I don't know how she would ever end up with Harry and if she does, I just might cry.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 9, 2004 2:31 pm (#1281 of 2916)
"But can someone please tell me WHY everyone is thinking Harry and Ginny will end up together? Don't get me wrong, I love Ginny, but her and Harry I just can't see happening."
I don't get this either. Why for four books did we barely get to know Ginny? Especially in CoS, where she was interigral to the plot. We got to know her better in OotP, but still not very well, in my mind. I just don't see it happening. I think there is a reason for her, but not as Harry's love.
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Star Crossed - Jul 9, 2004 2:34 pm (#1282 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think people like Harry/Ginny because it's just sweet. After all the time she fancied him, he finally fancies her back. It's the fairy tale ending.
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Courtney22 - Jul 9, 2004 3:51 pm (#1283 of 2916)
I would just want to see Ginny and Harry together so he could finally be a member of the Weasley family... but I don't think this will actually happen. It's just nice to dream about.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 9, 2004 8:03 pm (#1284 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
But can someone please tell me WHY everyone is thinking Harry and Ginny will end up together? Don't get me wrong, I love Ginny, but her and Harry I just can't see happening. -- thetheatre62442
Right you are Theatre, I'm with you, never understood where Ginny and Luna come from. Hermione's the girl I geep telling you.
It's the fairy tale ending.-- Star Crossed.
Ah, but Aly, JKR doesn't like fairy-tale endings, she likes or rather belives in being cruel to her characters.
You know what, earlier, there used to be as much H/G shippers as there were R/Hr shippers but things have seemingly changed now.
So, Who d'you guys think Harry Potter
will end up with? A> Hermione Granger
B> Ginny Weasley
C> Cho Chang
D> Luna Lovegood
E> Pansy Parkinson
F> Susan Bones
G> A new Character
H> A different existing Character (specify who)
My vote goes to A. Hermione Granger
Please vote.
--Thanks--
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soldierboy - Jul 9, 2004 8:35 pm (#1285 of 2916)
82nd Airborne Hooah!
I dont know i think that it may be Harry+Ginny and Ron+Hermione That way all 4 friends would be Weasly. Besides Ginny Potter and Hermione Weasly have a slight ring to them hehehe
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Czarina II - Jul 9, 2004 9:13 pm (#1286 of 2916)
Not sure and will wait for HbP!
I honestly don't know who Harry will end up with, but I don't think it will be Hermione. (I very much see Ron and Hermione, thank-you-very-much. We are all entitled to our opinions.) For now, I like to think Harry and Ginny will get together because it would be sweet and they are actually quite suited for each other. (It is late and I'd rather not argue why right now.) But I actually don't know what JKR plans. It seems that she is also leaning toward Ginny, but that just might be my wishful thinking. Really, though, no other female student has been developed enough to be Harry's girl. We've really only met Hermione, Ginny, and now Luna -- who was very quickly developed for only appearing in one book! My second guess would be Luna and Harry. Susan or Pansy? Maybe.
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spug - Jul 9, 2004 9:23 pm (#1287 of 2916)
Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny
So... B
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Courtney22 - Jul 9, 2004 9:42 pm (#1288 of 2916)
Now I'm not really a Harry Hermione shipper but I do have some half baked thoughts running around in my little head that might be useful to those who are pulling for them to get together.
I just watched the CoS movie..which I realize is not cannon but can still provide some helpful hints. Now JK Rowling and the script writer (I forget his name right now) said that some more mature feelings started to develop in this movie that weren't necessarily included in the book. In several scenes Harry is shown being very tender to Hermione. When she is petrified he is often shown stroking her hand tenderly. He is also the one shown bringing flowers to put by her bed. Also When Hermione is revived she runs past Ron to hug Harry first, then awkwardly shakes Ron's hand.
Now this could all just be circumstancial... or just show that Hermione is shy around Ron because she likes him. On the other hand however, it could show the growing affections between Harry and Hermione.
I would once again like to say that I'm not really convinced but I did find this a bit intersesting. If this has been posted before I apologize.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 9, 2004 10:01 pm (#1289 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Another vote? We've all stated our views on various issues, do we have to do it in vote format now too? We've had a few of these here before and there's been a couple on the vote thread if you really want to know how the forum, overall, feels about this issue. Everyone should already know how the debaters involved feel based on their arguments.
thetheatre62442: But can someone please tell me WHY everyone is thinking Harry and Ginny will end up together? Don't get me wrong, I love Ginny, but her and Harry I just can't see happening.
I think most people are spot on with their answers. Some think it is just cute. Some (perhaps even most) think it would provide him with the family he's been missing all these years. Looking over the various 'shipping related quotes from JKR that I've been gathering (post 1241), I think it's possible that Harry might date Ginny, or at least have some feelings for her as she once did for him. However, I'm still not sold on the idea of them getting together either. I have to admit, Green Eyes (with one or two others in the history of this forum) has had some interesting arguments that have made me rethink my position (I'm not a H/G 'shipper, by the way). I do have to admit, though, that Susan Potter had some convincing arguments about Susan Bones and Harry, as well, though, so I'm a little torn at the moment....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 9, 2004 10:08 pm (#1290 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
The script-writer is Steve Kloves.
So, you're H/Hr?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 9, 2004 10:15 pm (#1291 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Sarah, Why don't you mention that we, that is to say Coolbeans, Total Hatred, Tracie1976 and Myself have thrown in many convincing arguments which support the H/Hr 'ship? Well, concidering the amount of clues we had, I think we did a preety good job.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 9, 2004 11:37 pm (#1292 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Because I do not feel it a convincing argument.
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total hatred - Jul 9, 2004 11:49 pm (#1293 of 2916)
Maybe you are too narrowminded. Look at the big picture.
If the plot of the movies has the blessings of Mrs. Rowling, I believe the R/H shippers are already toasted to the crisp.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 10, 2004 12:11 am (#1294 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I would be very careful who you are calling narrowminded. H/Hr 'shippers see references in favor of their arguments, but please remember that R/Hr 'shippers see references in favor of their arguements as well. We are all entitle to our own opinions.
I do not find the arguments presented to be convincing because I feel they lack logic, are emotionally based, and are in indifference to counterpoints which have been raised. (This is a personal opinion.) I have been involved in other such debates before where H/Hr 'shippers were able to provide logical referenced theories and debates that focused on canon and psycology, the likes of which even made me question my own 'ship of choosing, but have seen nothing of that here. If a counterpoint is raised, the point should be attacked, not the sematics of the poster, and yet that is what I have seen happen here time and time again. If I have not been convinced by your arguments, I will not take any blame in the matter.
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total hatred - Jul 10, 2004 12:29 am (#1295 of 2916)
I am only saying that some of us are rabid posters. They make posts that are intelectualy stimulating but most of the time, lacks logic and common sense. If someone post something that is based on emotions, the others will immediately say it is illogical without weighing the facts and circumstances. I wish that we should analyze the post thoroughly first before writing a response.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 10, 2004 12:36 am (#1296 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Edited Jul 11, 2004 2:03 am
When responding in a debate, I like to keep in mind, not only someone's most recent post, but also those that they have made over a long period of time on a particular issue. I even go back and start reading from days ago if I feel that I may have missed something.
EDIT: I think perhaps this issue is getting too personal and should be brought back to 'shipping, before more things are said than can be taken back....
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Weeny Owl - Jul 10, 2004 12:58 am (#1297 of 2916)
If the plot of the movies has the blessings of Mrs. Rowling, I believe the R/H shippers are already toasted to the crisp.
Oddly enough, I see it as the toasting being done with the Harry and Hermione pairing.
My neighbor has never read the books but went with me to see PoA. She said (without me asking, by the way) that it was so cute that Ron and Hermione were a couple. I explained to her the debates that have gone on, and she said that it sure seemed obvious to her that Ron and Hermione were meant for each other. If JKR has any input into the romances in the movies, then an avid reader and a non-reader came away with the same thing.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 10, 2004 4:02 am (#1298 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Hey, guys, break up there, calm down. I've found this cool link. Care to check it out?
Love Calculator
Check out the Chances of succesfull Romances there. The results?
Harry/Hermione=26%
Ron/Hermione=74%
Harry/Ginny=80%
Harry/Susan=92%
Ron/Luna=72%
Harry/Luna=78%
Victor/Hermione=68%
Harry/Cho=72%
Seamus/Lavender=27%
Draco/Pansy=15%
Harry/Pansy=77%
Lucius/Narcissa=64%
Rudolphus/Belatrix=24%
Now before all you R/Hr 'Shippers start jumping up and down, read other odds:
James/Lily=48%
Arthur/Molly=26%
and, here's the shocker->
Ron/Cho=99%
Now, I know these things aren't reliable, may be my argument is more pathetic than that essay by Angua, but as you can see above, the successful Mariages in JKR's world have had very low chances. Only H/Hr have that less a chance as Arthur/Molly.
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The Artful Dodger - Jul 10, 2004 4:21 am (#1299 of 2916)
Strange thing, that Love Calculator. Hermione/Harry gets 57%, Hermione/Ron 88%, and a Ginny/Harry ship gets a stunning zero percentage.
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Ladybug220 - Jul 10, 2004 7:01 am (#1300 of 2916)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Artful Dodger - you have to put in the first and last name of the people you are comparing. I was getting the same numbers as you with just the first names, but when I put in the full name (first and last names) I got the same as Tornedo.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
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Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 1301 to 1350)
Elanor Sun May 15, 2011 2:22 am
Courtney22 - Jul 10, 2004 10:54 am (#1301 of 2916)
"I do not find the arguments presented to be convincing because I feel they lack logic" --SE Jones
Now who ever said love was logical?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 10, 2004 12:41 pm (#1302 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You know, though I support H/Hr 'ship, I wouldn't be disappointed with a Harry/Luna 'ship. What I find disappointing is R/Hr 'ship. Today, while surfing aimlessly, I stumbled upon a cool photo of Miss Watson from the PoA movie. On the photo, following words were imposed, "I'm too good for Ron Weasley". As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words...
--Thanks--
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Star Crossed - Jul 10, 2004 2:09 pm (#1303 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I missed the voting. Oh, poo. I say F. *waves Harry/Susan flag* Just because I haven't found his mate yet.
Ah, but Aly, JKR doesn't like fairy-tale endings, she likes or rather belives in being cruel to her characters.
Ah, but I never said I liked it. Well, I used to, but I'm no longer Harry/Ginny. It was cute, but now I just see it as annoying and they would break up after a date. They just aren't that well placed together. I see them being friends. Harry needs them more than he needs a girlfriend right now.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 10, 2004 2:21 pm (#1304 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
I don't think the voting has been closed, Star.
The most likely pairings IMO are Harry/Pansy, Ron/Hermione, and Neville/Ginny. This pretty much statisfies all the key characters and fits them with well-matched partners.
Whom Luna gets is another question. Perhaps one of the Hufflepuffs? She doesn't seem to have any friends in her own house. A Hufflepuff would be more likely to accept her for what she is.
Of course, Rowling may choose not to hook up anybody except Ron/Hermione by the end of Book #7. They are quite young for choosing life partners after all.
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Angel of the North - Jul 10, 2004 2:23 pm (#1305 of 2916)
Tea, dammit
Ron/Luna.
Please
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 10, 2004 2:36 pm (#1306 of 2916)
If I were to vote I would vote for either a relationship between Harry and Susan Bones which is improbable. Or a relationship between Harry and Luna Lovegood which is more probable.
Best Regards, Nathan
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Star Crossed - Jul 10, 2004 2:37 pm (#1307 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I personally cannot stand Ron/Luna. I think that Luna might ask Ron out, and he'll be so scared, he says yes, but on the date, he compares her to Hermione and realises his true feelings for her. That's the only way I can see R/L together. They just don't fit.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 10, 2004 2:40 pm (#1308 of 2916)
Harry/Hermione, Ron/Luna and Neville/Ginny. I really hope N/G happens. I love how they each stood up for the other in OotP.
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Mademoiselle Fleur - Jul 10, 2004 3:02 pm (#1309 of 2916)
Hermione/Ron!!!! That's the one I will stick to and have stuck to since I first starting reading Harry Potter. At the moment I'm fond of Harry/Ginny and Neville/Luna as well. But again, I must say; HERMIONE/RON!!!!
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 10, 2004 3:55 pm (#1310 of 2916)
Can I ask what basis there is for Neville and Luna, besides their being the left-overs after you pair H/R and H/G? Did they have any good interactions? (I'm not trying to be argumentative, I simply can't remember. I'm re-reading the series, which I haven't done since last fall, so it's been a while since I read OotP)
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Gwendolyn Morgan - Jul 10, 2004 8:57 pm (#1311 of 2916)
I say that Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione would both work, but Ron/Hermione would probably be better. I agree with coolbeans about Neville and Ginny, and I also think that if Harry/Hermione doesn't work out, Harry should just stay single. I just can't see anyone else working out with him.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 11, 2004 1:09 am (#1312 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Has anyone thought about Neville/Hermione? Well, what else is left if we are now talking of Neville/Luna or Neville/Ginny now?
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 11, 2004 9:12 am (#1313 of 2916)
No day but Today
Has anyone considered Ginny and Malfoy? She certainly has a firey enough personality to put him in his place. And even though thier families hate each other, maybe the two of them getting together would end the hate.
On another note, Ron(my favorite character) and Hermione will most definatly get together. JKR's put in so many hints already. I don't know about Harry and Luna. I think Harry needs to stay single for a while.
I would alos like to see a wedding somewhere in the books. Someone like Bill and Fleur or Fred and Angelina or Percy and Penelope(assuming the're still together.
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accio firebolt - Jul 11, 2004 9:49 am (#1314 of 2916)
I've always been a strong Harry/Hermione fan and I'm also betting on Ron/Luna. I LOVED how Luna was sort of pursuing Ron - I think she's fascinating. I know Ron and Hermione seem to be heading toward each other, but I think he's a little too goofy for her, and I think she'd push him too hard. Don't get me wrong - I think they're all very intelligent, but I think someone like Luna might be more Ron's equal. I'd be afraid Hermione would end up bossing Ron around too much and that he'd let her. I see Harry and Hermione as more evenly matched.
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 10:01 am (#1315 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Harry gets mad when Hermione bosses her, Ron takes it without problems. In fact, with his personality, he needs someone like his mother to guide him. And Hermione needs someone to tell her to lighten up. They compliment each other perfectly.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 11, 2004 11:06 am (#1316 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Accio Firebolt, Welcome to Harry/Hermione club. Matilda, Draco/Ginny? That has got as much chance as Hermione/Draco has. May be even less because of their families.
Again the "they complement each other argument" Aly? Well, Harry complements Hermione too you know. He is a bit headstrong while Hermione's actions (Mostly) are based on logical thinking. There are several other points, all of which can be found in that excellent essay by Penny Lisenmayer on the Lexicon.
Strange minds these R/Hr 'shippers have; when we say that "our pair" complement each other, they say it just means they are good friends. But when "their pair" complement each other, it suddenly means they are destined to be a couple.
P.S: Sorry if any one is offended by any of my comments.
--Thanks--
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 3:28 pm (#1317 of 2916)
I agree with Tornedo. Harry and Hermione compliment each other. Ron can stand to Hermione bossing recently since he fancies her. He also may aquired tremendous resistance to bossing due the fact that his mother is constantly bickering and bossing him. I believe he and Percy are the two of the most loved children of Molly Weasley.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 4:01 pm (#1318 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Matilda Jones: I would alos like to see a wedding somewhere in the books. Someone like Bill and Fleur or Fred and Angelina or Percy and Penelope(assuming the're still together.
Hm, now there's a question. What ever happened to Fred and Angelina? I rather liked their personalities together and was rather disappointed that they didn't stay together in OotP. Does anyone think they'll get back together now that they're out of school?
As for complimenting... I'm not entirely sure what people mean when they say this. Personally, I think that, for a relationship to work (and I think you'll find this true of most all relationships if you analyze them), the couple's characteristics need to both balance and counterbalance, not only in type of characteristic but in magnitude as well. I asked my sister (who, by the way, is getting her degree in childcare) what a child who grew up in a neglectful/abusive environment would be like (this question came from another thread) and she said he would be very likely to be highly keyed into his physical environment, not highly aware of other's emotional states, very introverted, and would avoid conflict where possible. Consider these characteristics in reference to Harry: he's acutely aware of his physical environment (as we proved on that other thread, will have to look to find it), not highly aware of verbal cues or other's emotional states (this could also be a literary style as we are Harry's shadow in the books, not anyone else's), he's very introverted (hence the need for externalizations of his internal states), and he hates confrontation (he hates it when Ron and Hermione fight and tends to bottle up when others fight with him). Now, keeping this in mind, Hermione tends to be rather tightly wound. When she starts to lecture or push, Harry bottles up. Ron, on the other hand, is very easy going and has seemingly found a way to.. er.. unwind the knot and get Hermione to cool down. Yes, sometimes they fight (I think they enjoy it), but sometimes he's able to simply slow her down. I think their fighting may be more a result of both of them being very vocal about their opinions, once reached, and their desire to be right. I think this is a good example of a counterbalance (anxious vs easy-going) and a balance (head-strong).
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 11, 2004 4:03 pm (#1319 of 2916)
Coolbeans, as a N/L shipper I must admit there isn't much basis in canon. However, on the one hand, I don't think there needs to be much, because Neville and Luna are not main characters and there possible development can mostly happen offscreen. While I love both of them dearly and think they will play an important part in book 6 and/or 7, a Neville/Luna ship is not as important as any ship that includes at least one trio member and therefore N/L doesn't need as much development.
That said, I think there is at least one scene. When they are discussing who should accompany Harry to the DoM, Hermione said that they need three Thestrals (for her, Harry and Ron obviosuly). Ginny answered that they need four (including herself). Luna however answered, that there were actually six of them, therefore including Neville and having faith in Neville, something none of the other four seem to have. Ginny might say that he's no nobody, and I really think it was great of her, but here it was Luna who seemed to consider him as a real help.
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 4:17 pm (#1320 of 2916)
Nice try but not good enough. You might think you got me there. Nah, I see the point but I am not talking about Ron living in an abusive environment. All I saying is Molly has extremely high expectations on Ron. I am not be psychologist but in my on opinion, Ron personality is shaped on his desire to meet her mother's expectatation.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 4:31 pm (#1321 of 2916)
Let it snow!
total hatred: Nah, I see the point but I am not talking about Ron living in an abusive environment.
I'm afraid I don't quite understand your post. I wasn't talking about Ron's environment, but Harry's. Perhaps you should read closer....
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Weeny Owl - Jul 11, 2004 4:43 pm (#1322 of 2916)
Yes, sometimes they fight (I think they enjoy it), but sometimes he's able to simply slow her down. I think their fighting may be more a result of both of them being very vocal about their opinions, once reached, and their desire to be right. I think this is a good example of a counterbalance (anxious vs easy-going) and a balance (head-strong).
ROFL, Sarah, but you could so easily be describing my parents.
I do like the whole counterbalancing thing because that seems to work so well for Ron and Hermione. They do remind me of Molly and Arthur in a lot of ways. I think they can give each other what's lacking in themselves... Hermione pushes Ron while Ron relaxes Hermione. They seem to mesh so well.
Definition of complement: something that fills up, completes, or makes perfect
I think Ron and Hermione truly complete each other.
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 5:17 pm (#1323 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes, I said they compliment each other. Because they do. Also, something that always sticked out in my mind. Harry even says Ron and Hermione remind him of Molly and Arthur. Unfortunately, I don't have my books with me, so I can't point anyone to where this is. I'm quite sure it's in OP, before school started. If anyone could post it, I'd be grateful.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 5:34 pm (#1324 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Actually, it's after school starts, during the 'Career Advice' chapter, when Fred and George offer to make a 'diversion' for Harry to use Umbridge's fireplace:
OotP, ch29, pg658:
"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place.
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 5:49 pm (#1325 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Oops! Thanks for finding it for me though.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 6:03 pm (#1326 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I don't like generational parallels (personality parallels, now that's a little different), but I do like that both Ron and Arthur give non-commital responses that end the argument without causing undue distress to Hermione and Molly, respectively. The non-commital response acts to calm the other who is very tightly wound at the time (in Ron's case it is more accidental, at least at this point, but I think in Arthur's case it is quite intentional). I've also noticed though, that both are able to be more direct, though this is a rarity (I think because of their easy-going personalities), and force and end to an in-coming argument or current argument, calming the other down. Ron didn this when Hermione was overly excited about her test, trying to go over everything again which would drive her and them (Ron and Harry) nuts. Ron very blatantly told her that they were not going to relive tests that they had just taken. I do not recall her attempting to "relive" a test after that (which is very much in her nature).
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 9:25 pm (#1327 of 2916)
I thought you are replying to my earlier post. My apologies
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 11:03 pm (#1328 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I mean, do you fall in love based upon logic?
You mesh with people based on balances and counterbalances. If you analyze, you realize that history and personality comprise these balances and counterbalances, but they do exist. The love comes from how well you mesh.... The logic is there, you just don't see it at first....
Q: Why don't you like generational parallels? A: Because they point towards a H/Hr ending. Q: Why do we like personality parallels? A: Because they seem to point to R/Hr ending.
Please, don't presume to answer for me, ever!!! I don't like generational parallels because they have no logical basis and can't be held true over a variety of situations. I like personality comparisons because they are and can.
I do not ignore evidence against my arguments, I confont it. Only those who engage in "group think" ignore counterpoints against their argument.
You cannot hope to prevent insulting someone when you continuously do so. Saying "I hope no one is offended" isn't always enough....
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shepherdess - Jul 12, 2004 1:09 am (#1329 of 2916)
55 year old mother of 3, step-mother of 2, grandmom to 3, living in Oklahoma
"If you want to say things which insult or belittle someone else's choices or beliefs, you will need to find another forum to express yourself in. There is no room for intolerance here. Play nice, share, gaze in wonder, laugh a lot (even at yourself), and be willing to be wrong and to learn."-Lexicon Steve, Philosophy of This Forum
The very topic of this thread is one that brings out the passion in people, and if not held in check, can quickly burn out of control, and logic goes up in the flames.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if you're going to share it on this forum, be prepared to: 1)back it up with the evidence you have, and 2)expect others to disagree with you (they also have that right), and respect their opinions as much as you want yours to be respected.
This forum has members with different ages, genders, nationalities, religious preferences, and, yes, opinions. The purpose of this forum is to discuss HP, not to force our opinions on others, and attack those who disagree. Please, let's discuss ideas, and the evidence that supports them, instead of criticizing the way others think.
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Courtney22 - Jul 12, 2004 2:58 pm (#1330 of 2916)
I disagree that logic dictates love. Though there are cases where a match is logical due to all the balances and counterbalances, there are just as many instances where it is hard to find any logical reason for people to be together. On another note there are many matches that are logical and make sense but there's just no chemistry there so it will never happen. I will acknowledge that there is parts of logic in love but love itself is highly illogical in my opinion. Logic is based in fact and love is based in emotion.
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Czarina II - Jul 12, 2004 3:52 pm (#1331 of 2916)
And thus we are comparing oranges and apples, both of which mixed together taste great in fruit salad.
I think that JKR is using both elements of logic and "chemistry" in her writing. Since this is a work of fiction, it is her world and the characters are her own characters. If she wants Hermione to end up with Ron, Hermione will end up with Ron; if she wants her to end with Harry, Hermione will end up with Harry; if she wants Hermione to end up with someone else, Hermione will end up with someone else. Some of her reasoning for doing so would be based on logic, some on simple whim. Whatever JKR does will make sense.
The logic that I disagree with is that Hermione must end up with Harry because she is the "heroine". Yes, usually the hero and the heroine end up together. But while Harry is definitely the hero (as the series is named for him), Hermione is most definitely not the heroine. Literarily speaking, for Hermione to be the heroine, she would have to be going through what Harry is, or something comparible. She isn't. There is no prophecy about Hermione. She hasn't been marked by Voldemort. She is the smartest witch of her year, yes, but that is a moot point for the story. It doesn't make her the heroine. Nowhere does it say that Harry is the smartest wizard. Hermione is no more the heroine than Ron is the hero. They are both sidekicks. There is no "heroine" in the Harry Potter series, at least not so far. (There could very well be one for the last two books.) Harry is one and only hero. Unfortunately, the greatest flaw of the third film was to make Hermione more of a heroine. Still, she did not face the Dementors.
In fact, I would rather argue that if we really want to find a heroine in this series, and one that is a student, we should probably pay close attention to Ginny in the next book. She is the only girl who has a close connection with Voldemort like Harry. Yes, her connection is weaker(as far as we know), but Hermione has no similar connection to Voldemort whatsoever.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 4:28 pm (#1332 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I disagree that logic dictates love.
I didn't say logic dictated love or that love was based on logic, just that there is logic in love, you just don't see it unless you look very closely. My parents seem total opposites, and they fell in love at first sight in high school, got married after only dating for a short time. It seems to be based purely on chemistry. But, when you look at their personalities, at their characteristics, they do balance and counterbalance each other. There is a logic to most every thing we do, but that doesn't mean we do something because of logic which implies we reason things out first. How well you compliment someone dictates how well you mesh. Sometimes there is that extra something, that extra spark, that turns a friendship into love. But it doesn't mean that the underpinnings of the relationship aren't logical....
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Catherine - Jul 12, 2004 5:00 pm (#1333 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Sarah, I agree with your "logical love" explanations. I have long thought that you are wise beyond your years, but these last few posts of yours sealed that impression.
I think you did an admirable job of trying to make concrete the apparent contradictions in the ideas of love having logic. Well done. I wish I had had more students like you way back in the day when I was a teacher.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 12, 2004 5:29 pm (#1334 of 2916)
There exists a logic within love, a logic that humankind is not wholly capable of understanding since, humans are by nature imperfect beings.
That being said there are some relationships which on the surface look like good matches but dynamics are such that the people involved are too radically similar in nature or are too radically different. he most successful relationships are those which, can achieve a balanced and harmonious complimentary unity.
Of the relationships that have been speculated on for Hermione. The most balanced would be a relationship involving Ron or Neville because, they are excellent counterbalances to each other. The possibility of a relationship between Hermione and Harry seems less likely to me because, they are too similar in nature in effect I would say that Harry is what Hermione would be if she had been born a boy.
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 5:42 pm (#1335 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I agree for the most part, Nathan, but I also think people need to balance, as well as counterbalance. What balances do you see with Hermione and Neville?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 12, 2004 7:04 pm (#1336 of 2916)
S.E. Jones, the main balance and counterbalance I see in a relationship between Hermione and Neville relationship are similar to those that could possibly exist in relationship between Hermione and Ron.
If one looks at Neville in the first two books he is face with a poor memory and the expectations of a severe grandmother who expects him to carry on the family tradition and excel. Yet, until the Order of the Phoenix, Neville has failed to meet to the high standards that were set by his parents and as such he in some sense views himself as a disappointment to his family.
The same can be said of Ron Weasley, until Order of the Phoenix he has viewed himself largely as a disappointment to his family. Prior making the house team and the Battle of the Department Mysteries viewed himself as merely another in the long line of Weasley's who had been sorted into Gryffindor. Yet, he has slowly been gaining more self confidence. The defeat of McGonagall's chess set in Philosopher's Stone was the first step in the process of his achieving self esteem. A process that has undoubtedly accelerated by his conduct and participation in the events that occurred throughout Order of the Phoenix.
Because, while Ron can inspire confidence in others, he reserves none for himself. He and Neville are more concerned about encouraging the others so much so that they do not attend to their own needs. The same can be said of Harry, Hermione, Ginny, and Luna but to a lesser extent.
Harry, Hermione, Ginny and Ron have the ability to encourage the development of self confidence in others. They will be vital to the further flowering of Neville's character. In Neville's case Ron and Hermione played instrumental roles before and at the Quidditch match that decided the cup their third year by encouraging and helping Neville to stand up to Malfoy.
Ron possesses great aptitude in encouraging others and helping others raise their self esteem. Yet, for all the good he does he cannot see the good within himself. That being said, I believe Harry, Hermione and Neville with aid of others like Seamus Dean will help Ron to flower and thrive much like Ron has done with Harry, Hermione and Neville thus far.
Hermione would benefit from a relationship with Neville because, in such a relationship she could expose her vulnerabilities to someone who is equally vulnerable and who could empathize with that. In a way that Ron could not.
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 7:24 pm (#1337 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Very well thought out Nathan! I still don't know if Neville has enough, stubbornness and hard-headedness to stand up to Hermione when she needs someone to confront her. Just my opinion.... I can definately see where you are coming from, though....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 12, 2004 8:17 pm (#1338 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Talking about Neville, here's something from Neville Longbottom thread by Newton
Attention intellectuals! I have been given a copy of "the unofficial guide to Harry Potter Book 5" and it's great! After much reading I found that they spotted something that leapt out at me when I read it. Neville says "I'm nobody" on the train when Luna asks who he is. "I'm Nobody" is a poem by Emily Dickinson (that much I knew), so I looked it up and this is the poem:
I'm nobody! Who are you? Are you nobody, too? Then there's a pair of us -- don't tell! They'd banish us, you know.
How dreary to be somebody! How public, like a frog To tell your name the livelong day To an admiring bog!
This is where I need some intellectual help.... Can anyone see anything in this poem that might shed some light on Master Longbottom? I guess it could be coincidence that the poem has the same name as Neville's comment, but it does include a reference to a frog (perhaps Trevor??)...
Any thoughts?
Is the writer pointing towards a N/L 'ship?
Czarina--
What is a Hero? Isn't he the strongest male character in a Book/Movie/Play? That's Harry.
Who is a Heroine? She's the strongest Female character in a Book/Movie/Play. That's Hermione.
Ron, well he is easily, the second-strongest character in the books. So, had Harry not existed, he would've been the Hero.
Ginny? I'd say she is more of a supporting actress than a Heroine. She just doesn't have enough page time to be called a Heroine.
--Thanks--
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Green Eyes - Jul 12, 2004 8:40 pm (#1339 of 2916)
The Harry Potter books are about a male character...they are named for him, therefore HE is the HERO or protagonist. If the books were titled Hermione Granger and the .... then the books would have a HEROINE.
Hermione is a strong female character and Ron a strong male character and in relation to the HERO - Harry, they qualify as the sidekicks. The supporting characters along with Ginny and the other Weasley's are Neville, et. al. Voldemort is the anti-hero or villain/antagonist. Through the side kicks and other supporting characters the HERO learns about himself, and grows in order to achieve his objective - in this case, the defeat of Voldemort.
Just because Hermione is the strongest female character doesn't automatically make her the love interest of the HERO. In fact in Hermione's case, it seems to me this would diminish her character. She functions as a counselor to Harry...a mother figure as I have stated before she is extremely important in this role. Not in any other in relation to Harry.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 12, 2004 8:41 pm (#1340 of 2916)
Ginny? I'd say she is more of a supporting actress than a Heroine. She just doesn't have enough page time to be called a Heroine.
Ginny is becoming a much stronger character, and her page time in OotP grew by leaps and bounds.
Sirius was a mere mention in the first book but starred in the third, after all.
Ginny and Harry share something no one else does... they've both been possessed by Voldemort, whether diary or current time.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 12, 2004 10:01 pm (#1341 of 2916)
Tornedo,
Perhaps, the reference ties into Neville's attitudes toward himself at the beginning of the book, They seem to me similar to Ron's feelings about himself in the beginning of Philosopher's Stone ehen Ron tells Harry about his older brothers.
Everyone expects me to do as well as the others, but if I do it's no big deal, because they did it first. The quote is found on page 142 of the large print edition publidhed by Thorndike Press,
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 10:05 pm (#1342 of 2916)
Let it snow!
A very good point, Green Eyes. Hermione wouldn't actually qualify as a heroine in this story unless she was one of the main protagonists, but there is only one main protagonist in this story - Harry. Otherwise, it would be "Harry Potter and Hermione Granger and the..." on the titles of all the books. She's just another strong supporting character, one of the most important of the supporting characters, just as Ron is.....
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 12, 2004 10:16 pm (#1343 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
S.E. Jones, I couldn't agree more. I also think that it would be the same kind of cliché JKR tends to avoid by pairing him with the obvious, Hermione. I really think that Harry's eventual love interest will be beneficial to both of them. There is nothing more that can be added to Harry's and Hermione's current relationship, actually, alot can be lost by it. Relationships cause people to learn, grow, and evolve. Harry needs someone that will add new depth to his life; someone to provide some fun, excitement, and stability. Perhaps this is Pansy, or not maybe Luna, not his best friend. (especially one who would definitely annoy Harry to the nth degree.
EDIT: S.E. Jones, my agreement was with your definition of Hermione as not a hero. I should have been more clear. As for love based on logic, well I just don't know.
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Courtney22 - Jul 12, 2004 10:29 pm (#1344 of 2916)
To make one final post on the whole love and logic argument I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Though I agree with all of your points I just personally hate to think of love and relationships in that way. For me it just seems to take the romance out of the idea of love. If it were a simple matter of balance and counter balance what makes the whole thing of being in love special? Also I think if it were just a matter of balance and counter balance then most of the relationships suggested are possible. For me personally there's got to be that something extra and that was the only point I was tying to make.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 12, 2004 10:44 pm (#1345 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Courtney, one thing about love is that it is not always rational and makes those under its influence irrational at times. People are drawn to other people for various reasons and needs; some are positive and some are negative. People are more likely to seek out those who fulfill a desire or emptiness inside of themselves. So, this is my way of agreeing with you and others. Sometimes love is born out of a need for balance, therefore we can all be right.
PANSY and HARRY*
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 10:44 pm (#1346 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Courtney: If it were a simple matter of balance and counter balance what makes the whole thing of being in love special?..... For me personally there's got to be that something extra...
If it makes you feel any better, you might note that I did note that something extra:
(Post 1331): "Sometimes there is that extra something, that extra spark, that turns a friendship into love."
And, I'm still not saying you would consider these things first, just that, if you considered them later, you would find they exist. There is a science to love, even if we don't think about it at the time. What fun would that be?
You can be compatible with many people without feeling that "spark" with any of them that makes you fall in love. That spark is undefinable, true. But people who aren't compatible/complementary in some way don't have long lasting relationships. I'm debating about how complementary couples are, not the undefinable spark. That comes later....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 1:26 am (#1347 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
"Ginny and Harry share something no one else does... they've both been possessed by Voldemort, whether diary or current time." --Weeny Owl.
Actually, Harry and Hermione have a lot in common than Harry and Ginny have.
Green Eyes, interesting point in post 1338. Going off topic a bit, which role doy you think Dumbledore fulfills in context to your post?
"Hermione wouldn't actually qualify as a heroine in this story unless she was one of the main protagonists, but there is only one main protagonist in this story - Harry. Otherwise, it would be "Harry Potter and Hermione Granger and the..." -- S.E Jones.
Sarah, I must disagree their. A person need not have his/her name in the Title to become Hero/Heroine in the series. For example, in series like "Superman" and "Phantom", only the Hero's name is mentioned in the title, but there is a Heroine in both of them.
I think this is exellent time to say something I wanted to say for a long time. Well, actually, I used to support a R/Hr ending 'till OotP was released. But if you observe all the 5 books carefully, you will notice that after Harry and Ron have their spat in GoF, things haven't been the same between the two of them. Before their fight, Ron seemed to have more influence on Harry than Hermione, but after their quarrel, even after things mended between them, Hermione seems to have more influence on Harry. As we read from Harry's POV, Hermione gets considerable amount of page time more than Ron does in OotP. If this trend continues, Hermione would be as important as Harry in book 7. In addition, Ron seems to be more of Harry's shadow in OotP than in any of the other 4 books. Hermione on the other hand seems to be more of an Individual in OotP than in any of the 4 previous books.
Now think, what are the functions of each of the Trio? Harry's function is of course to fight Lord Voldemort. Hermione's function is to be well, the Brain of the trio and figure out the mysteries and help others with their homework and may be liberate Elves. Ron's function is to help us and Harry familiarise with the Wizarding World, to be a faithfull friend to Harry, and crack a few jokes to lighten the atmosphere. Now, of these, we are already familiar with the Wizarding World. Harry already has many faithful friends like Neville, Ginny other than Ron. Thus, Ron's work has been reduced to just being the Comic relief of the Trio. May be, he gets some added responsibilities like Quidditch and Prefect duties, but that's it really. No wonder Ron got less page time in OotP. So, if you think Ron, with this reduced page time is Harry's Sidekick, then Hermione, with an increased Page time is certainly something more.
To quote someone from this Forum (I don't remember who), that's just my two knuts
--Thanks--
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 13, 2004 1:48 am (#1348 of 2916)
Reading between the lines (if that's what I was doing), I'd say that Ron wants Harry and Ginny to go out (although Ginny is no longer smitten with Harry), and he himself wants to date Hermione.
I'm not sure how Hermione's relationship will turn out. I can definitely see something going on between Harry and Hermione (even if they can't...), but on the other hand, the expression "bickering as if they were betrothed" could accurately describe Ron and Hermione.
Plus, 15-year-old Ron and Hermione bear an uncanny resemblence to 15-year-old James and Lily, and we all know how the latter turned out...
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S.E. Jones - Jul 13, 2004 2:11 am (#1349 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: A person need not have his/her name in the Title to become Hero/Heroine in the series. For example, in series like "Superman" and "Phantom", only the Hero's name is mentioned in the title, but there is a Heroine in both of them.
I never said she had to have her name in the title to be considered a heroine, I said she had to be one of the main protagonists, which she isn't. (Post 1341: "Hermione wouldn't actually qualify as a heroine in this story unless she was one of the main protagonists, but there is only one main protagonist in this story - Harry.") She's a supporting character. One of the most important supporting characters, true, but still not a main protagonist. This story is written with just one main protagonist and that is Harry. I think Green Eyes phrased it very well in her last post, if you want a better explanation....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 6:01 am (#1350 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Paulus, Ron does want Harry and Ginny to get together. But does he have the resourcefullness and subtlity to do so? I think not. Now if Hermione desired, it may happen, but her feelings have been mostly kept under covers by JKR, so, we won't know what she thinks untill may be even the seventh book.
Having read all the messages on this thread (at last) I'm inclined to say that both H/Hr and R/Hr ships have got an equal chance, may be R/Hr shipers has an edge over H/Hr shipers, but we don't yet know one important thing. We still don't know Hermione's feelings. As far as I see it, she's still not shown any signs of being intrested in any one but Victor Krum, but then, I don't think She'll end up with Krum atleast. Then there is another point, Why does Hermione have to pair off at all? for that matter, why should any one of the trio pair off with any one at all? Now, I know that JKR has said that Harry will have a couple of dates, but does it have to be serious? After all, a majority of Wizards and Witches we've met aren't married. I'm now begining to think that none of the main characters will pair off at least at the end of the seventh book. I mean they'll be just 17. They'll have their whole Extra-Long life left for Romance.
Well, that's my thought. Is any one with me here?
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"I do not find the arguments presented to be convincing because I feel they lack logic" --SE Jones
Now who ever said love was logical?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 10, 2004 12:41 pm (#1302 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You know, though I support H/Hr 'ship, I wouldn't be disappointed with a Harry/Luna 'ship. What I find disappointing is R/Hr 'ship. Today, while surfing aimlessly, I stumbled upon a cool photo of Miss Watson from the PoA movie. On the photo, following words were imposed, "I'm too good for Ron Weasley". As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words...
--Thanks--
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Star Crossed - Jul 10, 2004 2:09 pm (#1303 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I missed the voting. Oh, poo. I say F. *waves Harry/Susan flag* Just because I haven't found his mate yet.
Ah, but Aly, JKR doesn't like fairy-tale endings, she likes or rather belives in being cruel to her characters.
Ah, but I never said I liked it. Well, I used to, but I'm no longer Harry/Ginny. It was cute, but now I just see it as annoying and they would break up after a date. They just aren't that well placed together. I see them being friends. Harry needs them more than he needs a girlfriend right now.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 10, 2004 2:21 pm (#1304 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
I don't think the voting has been closed, Star.
The most likely pairings IMO are Harry/Pansy, Ron/Hermione, and Neville/Ginny. This pretty much statisfies all the key characters and fits them with well-matched partners.
Whom Luna gets is another question. Perhaps one of the Hufflepuffs? She doesn't seem to have any friends in her own house. A Hufflepuff would be more likely to accept her for what she is.
Of course, Rowling may choose not to hook up anybody except Ron/Hermione by the end of Book #7. They are quite young for choosing life partners after all.
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Angel of the North - Jul 10, 2004 2:23 pm (#1305 of 2916)
Tea, dammit
Ron/Luna.
Please
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 10, 2004 2:36 pm (#1306 of 2916)
If I were to vote I would vote for either a relationship between Harry and Susan Bones which is improbable. Or a relationship between Harry and Luna Lovegood which is more probable.
Best Regards, Nathan
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Star Crossed - Jul 10, 2004 2:37 pm (#1307 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I personally cannot stand Ron/Luna. I think that Luna might ask Ron out, and he'll be so scared, he says yes, but on the date, he compares her to Hermione and realises his true feelings for her. That's the only way I can see R/L together. They just don't fit.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 10, 2004 2:40 pm (#1308 of 2916)
Harry/Hermione, Ron/Luna and Neville/Ginny. I really hope N/G happens. I love how they each stood up for the other in OotP.
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Mademoiselle Fleur - Jul 10, 2004 3:02 pm (#1309 of 2916)
Hermione/Ron!!!! That's the one I will stick to and have stuck to since I first starting reading Harry Potter. At the moment I'm fond of Harry/Ginny and Neville/Luna as well. But again, I must say; HERMIONE/RON!!!!
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 10, 2004 3:55 pm (#1310 of 2916)
Can I ask what basis there is for Neville and Luna, besides their being the left-overs after you pair H/R and H/G? Did they have any good interactions? (I'm not trying to be argumentative, I simply can't remember. I'm re-reading the series, which I haven't done since last fall, so it's been a while since I read OotP)
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Gwendolyn Morgan - Jul 10, 2004 8:57 pm (#1311 of 2916)
I say that Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione would both work, but Ron/Hermione would probably be better. I agree with coolbeans about Neville and Ginny, and I also think that if Harry/Hermione doesn't work out, Harry should just stay single. I just can't see anyone else working out with him.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 11, 2004 1:09 am (#1312 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Has anyone thought about Neville/Hermione? Well, what else is left if we are now talking of Neville/Luna or Neville/Ginny now?
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 11, 2004 9:12 am (#1313 of 2916)
No day but Today
Has anyone considered Ginny and Malfoy? She certainly has a firey enough personality to put him in his place. And even though thier families hate each other, maybe the two of them getting together would end the hate.
On another note, Ron(my favorite character) and Hermione will most definatly get together. JKR's put in so many hints already. I don't know about Harry and Luna. I think Harry needs to stay single for a while.
I would alos like to see a wedding somewhere in the books. Someone like Bill and Fleur or Fred and Angelina or Percy and Penelope(assuming the're still together.
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accio firebolt - Jul 11, 2004 9:49 am (#1314 of 2916)
I've always been a strong Harry/Hermione fan and I'm also betting on Ron/Luna. I LOVED how Luna was sort of pursuing Ron - I think she's fascinating. I know Ron and Hermione seem to be heading toward each other, but I think he's a little too goofy for her, and I think she'd push him too hard. Don't get me wrong - I think they're all very intelligent, but I think someone like Luna might be more Ron's equal. I'd be afraid Hermione would end up bossing Ron around too much and that he'd let her. I see Harry and Hermione as more evenly matched.
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 10:01 am (#1315 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Harry gets mad when Hermione bosses her, Ron takes it without problems. In fact, with his personality, he needs someone like his mother to guide him. And Hermione needs someone to tell her to lighten up. They compliment each other perfectly.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 11, 2004 11:06 am (#1316 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Accio Firebolt, Welcome to Harry/Hermione club. Matilda, Draco/Ginny? That has got as much chance as Hermione/Draco has. May be even less because of their families.
Again the "they complement each other argument" Aly? Well, Harry complements Hermione too you know. He is a bit headstrong while Hermione's actions (Mostly) are based on logical thinking. There are several other points, all of which can be found in that excellent essay by Penny Lisenmayer on the Lexicon.
Strange minds these R/Hr 'shippers have; when we say that "our pair" complement each other, they say it just means they are good friends. But when "their pair" complement each other, it suddenly means they are destined to be a couple.
P.S: Sorry if any one is offended by any of my comments.
--Thanks--
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 3:28 pm (#1317 of 2916)
I agree with Tornedo. Harry and Hermione compliment each other. Ron can stand to Hermione bossing recently since he fancies her. He also may aquired tremendous resistance to bossing due the fact that his mother is constantly bickering and bossing him. I believe he and Percy are the two of the most loved children of Molly Weasley.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 4:01 pm (#1318 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Matilda Jones: I would alos like to see a wedding somewhere in the books. Someone like Bill and Fleur or Fred and Angelina or Percy and Penelope(assuming the're still together.
Hm, now there's a question. What ever happened to Fred and Angelina? I rather liked their personalities together and was rather disappointed that they didn't stay together in OotP. Does anyone think they'll get back together now that they're out of school?
As for complimenting... I'm not entirely sure what people mean when they say this. Personally, I think that, for a relationship to work (and I think you'll find this true of most all relationships if you analyze them), the couple's characteristics need to both balance and counterbalance, not only in type of characteristic but in magnitude as well. I asked my sister (who, by the way, is getting her degree in childcare) what a child who grew up in a neglectful/abusive environment would be like (this question came from another thread) and she said he would be very likely to be highly keyed into his physical environment, not highly aware of other's emotional states, very introverted, and would avoid conflict where possible. Consider these characteristics in reference to Harry: he's acutely aware of his physical environment (as we proved on that other thread, will have to look to find it), not highly aware of verbal cues or other's emotional states (this could also be a literary style as we are Harry's shadow in the books, not anyone else's), he's very introverted (hence the need for externalizations of his internal states), and he hates confrontation (he hates it when Ron and Hermione fight and tends to bottle up when others fight with him). Now, keeping this in mind, Hermione tends to be rather tightly wound. When she starts to lecture or push, Harry bottles up. Ron, on the other hand, is very easy going and has seemingly found a way to.. er.. unwind the knot and get Hermione to cool down. Yes, sometimes they fight (I think they enjoy it), but sometimes he's able to simply slow her down. I think their fighting may be more a result of both of them being very vocal about their opinions, once reached, and their desire to be right. I think this is a good example of a counterbalance (anxious vs easy-going) and a balance (head-strong).
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 11, 2004 4:03 pm (#1319 of 2916)
Coolbeans, as a N/L shipper I must admit there isn't much basis in canon. However, on the one hand, I don't think there needs to be much, because Neville and Luna are not main characters and there possible development can mostly happen offscreen. While I love both of them dearly and think they will play an important part in book 6 and/or 7, a Neville/Luna ship is not as important as any ship that includes at least one trio member and therefore N/L doesn't need as much development.
That said, I think there is at least one scene. When they are discussing who should accompany Harry to the DoM, Hermione said that they need three Thestrals (for her, Harry and Ron obviosuly). Ginny answered that they need four (including herself). Luna however answered, that there were actually six of them, therefore including Neville and having faith in Neville, something none of the other four seem to have. Ginny might say that he's no nobody, and I really think it was great of her, but here it was Luna who seemed to consider him as a real help.
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 4:17 pm (#1320 of 2916)
Nice try but not good enough. You might think you got me there. Nah, I see the point but I am not talking about Ron living in an abusive environment. All I saying is Molly has extremely high expectations on Ron. I am not be psychologist but in my on opinion, Ron personality is shaped on his desire to meet her mother's expectatation.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 4:31 pm (#1321 of 2916)
Let it snow!
total hatred: Nah, I see the point but I am not talking about Ron living in an abusive environment.
I'm afraid I don't quite understand your post. I wasn't talking about Ron's environment, but Harry's. Perhaps you should read closer....
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Weeny Owl - Jul 11, 2004 4:43 pm (#1322 of 2916)
Yes, sometimes they fight (I think they enjoy it), but sometimes he's able to simply slow her down. I think their fighting may be more a result of both of them being very vocal about their opinions, once reached, and their desire to be right. I think this is a good example of a counterbalance (anxious vs easy-going) and a balance (head-strong).
ROFL, Sarah, but you could so easily be describing my parents.
I do like the whole counterbalancing thing because that seems to work so well for Ron and Hermione. They do remind me of Molly and Arthur in a lot of ways. I think they can give each other what's lacking in themselves... Hermione pushes Ron while Ron relaxes Hermione. They seem to mesh so well.
Definition of complement: something that fills up, completes, or makes perfect
I think Ron and Hermione truly complete each other.
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 5:17 pm (#1323 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes, I said they compliment each other. Because they do. Also, something that always sticked out in my mind. Harry even says Ron and Hermione remind him of Molly and Arthur. Unfortunately, I don't have my books with me, so I can't point anyone to where this is. I'm quite sure it's in OP, before school started. If anyone could post it, I'd be grateful.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 5:34 pm (#1324 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Actually, it's after school starts, during the 'Career Advice' chapter, when Fred and George offer to make a 'diversion' for Harry to use Umbridge's fireplace:
OotP, ch29, pg658:
"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place.
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Star Crossed - Jul 11, 2004 5:49 pm (#1325 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Oops! Thanks for finding it for me though.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 6:03 pm (#1326 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I don't like generational parallels (personality parallels, now that's a little different), but I do like that both Ron and Arthur give non-commital responses that end the argument without causing undue distress to Hermione and Molly, respectively. The non-commital response acts to calm the other who is very tightly wound at the time (in Ron's case it is more accidental, at least at this point, but I think in Arthur's case it is quite intentional). I've also noticed though, that both are able to be more direct, though this is a rarity (I think because of their easy-going personalities), and force and end to an in-coming argument or current argument, calming the other down. Ron didn this when Hermione was overly excited about her test, trying to go over everything again which would drive her and them (Ron and Harry) nuts. Ron very blatantly told her that they were not going to relive tests that they had just taken. I do not recall her attempting to "relive" a test after that (which is very much in her nature).
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total hatred - Jul 11, 2004 9:25 pm (#1327 of 2916)
I thought you are replying to my earlier post. My apologies
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S.E. Jones - Jul 11, 2004 11:03 pm (#1328 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I mean, do you fall in love based upon logic?
You mesh with people based on balances and counterbalances. If you analyze, you realize that history and personality comprise these balances and counterbalances, but they do exist. The love comes from how well you mesh.... The logic is there, you just don't see it at first....
Q: Why don't you like generational parallels? A: Because they point towards a H/Hr ending. Q: Why do we like personality parallels? A: Because they seem to point to R/Hr ending.
Please, don't presume to answer for me, ever!!! I don't like generational parallels because they have no logical basis and can't be held true over a variety of situations. I like personality comparisons because they are and can.
I do not ignore evidence against my arguments, I confont it. Only those who engage in "group think" ignore counterpoints against their argument.
You cannot hope to prevent insulting someone when you continuously do so. Saying "I hope no one is offended" isn't always enough....
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shepherdess - Jul 12, 2004 1:09 am (#1329 of 2916)
55 year old mother of 3, step-mother of 2, grandmom to 3, living in Oklahoma
"If you want to say things which insult or belittle someone else's choices or beliefs, you will need to find another forum to express yourself in. There is no room for intolerance here. Play nice, share, gaze in wonder, laugh a lot (even at yourself), and be willing to be wrong and to learn."-Lexicon Steve, Philosophy of This Forum
The very topic of this thread is one that brings out the passion in people, and if not held in check, can quickly burn out of control, and logic goes up in the flames.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but if you're going to share it on this forum, be prepared to: 1)back it up with the evidence you have, and 2)expect others to disagree with you (they also have that right), and respect their opinions as much as you want yours to be respected.
This forum has members with different ages, genders, nationalities, religious preferences, and, yes, opinions. The purpose of this forum is to discuss HP, not to force our opinions on others, and attack those who disagree. Please, let's discuss ideas, and the evidence that supports them, instead of criticizing the way others think.
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Courtney22 - Jul 12, 2004 2:58 pm (#1330 of 2916)
I disagree that logic dictates love. Though there are cases where a match is logical due to all the balances and counterbalances, there are just as many instances where it is hard to find any logical reason for people to be together. On another note there are many matches that are logical and make sense but there's just no chemistry there so it will never happen. I will acknowledge that there is parts of logic in love but love itself is highly illogical in my opinion. Logic is based in fact and love is based in emotion.
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Czarina II - Jul 12, 2004 3:52 pm (#1331 of 2916)
And thus we are comparing oranges and apples, both of which mixed together taste great in fruit salad.
I think that JKR is using both elements of logic and "chemistry" in her writing. Since this is a work of fiction, it is her world and the characters are her own characters. If she wants Hermione to end up with Ron, Hermione will end up with Ron; if she wants her to end with Harry, Hermione will end up with Harry; if she wants Hermione to end up with someone else, Hermione will end up with someone else. Some of her reasoning for doing so would be based on logic, some on simple whim. Whatever JKR does will make sense.
The logic that I disagree with is that Hermione must end up with Harry because she is the "heroine". Yes, usually the hero and the heroine end up together. But while Harry is definitely the hero (as the series is named for him), Hermione is most definitely not the heroine. Literarily speaking, for Hermione to be the heroine, she would have to be going through what Harry is, or something comparible. She isn't. There is no prophecy about Hermione. She hasn't been marked by Voldemort. She is the smartest witch of her year, yes, but that is a moot point for the story. It doesn't make her the heroine. Nowhere does it say that Harry is the smartest wizard. Hermione is no more the heroine than Ron is the hero. They are both sidekicks. There is no "heroine" in the Harry Potter series, at least not so far. (There could very well be one for the last two books.) Harry is one and only hero. Unfortunately, the greatest flaw of the third film was to make Hermione more of a heroine. Still, she did not face the Dementors.
In fact, I would rather argue that if we really want to find a heroine in this series, and one that is a student, we should probably pay close attention to Ginny in the next book. She is the only girl who has a close connection with Voldemort like Harry. Yes, her connection is weaker(as far as we know), but Hermione has no similar connection to Voldemort whatsoever.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 4:28 pm (#1332 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I disagree that logic dictates love.
I didn't say logic dictated love or that love was based on logic, just that there is logic in love, you just don't see it unless you look very closely. My parents seem total opposites, and they fell in love at first sight in high school, got married after only dating for a short time. It seems to be based purely on chemistry. But, when you look at their personalities, at their characteristics, they do balance and counterbalance each other. There is a logic to most every thing we do, but that doesn't mean we do something because of logic which implies we reason things out first. How well you compliment someone dictates how well you mesh. Sometimes there is that extra something, that extra spark, that turns a friendship into love. But it doesn't mean that the underpinnings of the relationship aren't logical....
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Catherine - Jul 12, 2004 5:00 pm (#1333 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Sarah, I agree with your "logical love" explanations. I have long thought that you are wise beyond your years, but these last few posts of yours sealed that impression.
I think you did an admirable job of trying to make concrete the apparent contradictions in the ideas of love having logic. Well done. I wish I had had more students like you way back in the day when I was a teacher.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 12, 2004 5:29 pm (#1334 of 2916)
There exists a logic within love, a logic that humankind is not wholly capable of understanding since, humans are by nature imperfect beings.
That being said there are some relationships which on the surface look like good matches but dynamics are such that the people involved are too radically similar in nature or are too radically different. he most successful relationships are those which, can achieve a balanced and harmonious complimentary unity.
Of the relationships that have been speculated on for Hermione. The most balanced would be a relationship involving Ron or Neville because, they are excellent counterbalances to each other. The possibility of a relationship between Hermione and Harry seems less likely to me because, they are too similar in nature in effect I would say that Harry is what Hermione would be if she had been born a boy.
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 5:42 pm (#1335 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I agree for the most part, Nathan, but I also think people need to balance, as well as counterbalance. What balances do you see with Hermione and Neville?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 12, 2004 7:04 pm (#1336 of 2916)
S.E. Jones, the main balance and counterbalance I see in a relationship between Hermione and Neville relationship are similar to those that could possibly exist in relationship between Hermione and Ron.
If one looks at Neville in the first two books he is face with a poor memory and the expectations of a severe grandmother who expects him to carry on the family tradition and excel. Yet, until the Order of the Phoenix, Neville has failed to meet to the high standards that were set by his parents and as such he in some sense views himself as a disappointment to his family.
The same can be said of Ron Weasley, until Order of the Phoenix he has viewed himself largely as a disappointment to his family. Prior making the house team and the Battle of the Department Mysteries viewed himself as merely another in the long line of Weasley's who had been sorted into Gryffindor. Yet, he has slowly been gaining more self confidence. The defeat of McGonagall's chess set in Philosopher's Stone was the first step in the process of his achieving self esteem. A process that has undoubtedly accelerated by his conduct and participation in the events that occurred throughout Order of the Phoenix.
Because, while Ron can inspire confidence in others, he reserves none for himself. He and Neville are more concerned about encouraging the others so much so that they do not attend to their own needs. The same can be said of Harry, Hermione, Ginny, and Luna but to a lesser extent.
Harry, Hermione, Ginny and Ron have the ability to encourage the development of self confidence in others. They will be vital to the further flowering of Neville's character. In Neville's case Ron and Hermione played instrumental roles before and at the Quidditch match that decided the cup their third year by encouraging and helping Neville to stand up to Malfoy.
Ron possesses great aptitude in encouraging others and helping others raise their self esteem. Yet, for all the good he does he cannot see the good within himself. That being said, I believe Harry, Hermione and Neville with aid of others like Seamus Dean will help Ron to flower and thrive much like Ron has done with Harry, Hermione and Neville thus far.
Hermione would benefit from a relationship with Neville because, in such a relationship she could expose her vulnerabilities to someone who is equally vulnerable and who could empathize with that. In a way that Ron could not.
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 7:24 pm (#1337 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Very well thought out Nathan! I still don't know if Neville has enough, stubbornness and hard-headedness to stand up to Hermione when she needs someone to confront her. Just my opinion.... I can definately see where you are coming from, though....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 12, 2004 8:17 pm (#1338 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Talking about Neville, here's something from Neville Longbottom thread by Newton
Attention intellectuals! I have been given a copy of "the unofficial guide to Harry Potter Book 5" and it's great! After much reading I found that they spotted something that leapt out at me when I read it. Neville says "I'm nobody" on the train when Luna asks who he is. "I'm Nobody" is a poem by Emily Dickinson (that much I knew), so I looked it up and this is the poem:
I'm nobody! Who are you? Are you nobody, too? Then there's a pair of us -- don't tell! They'd banish us, you know.
How dreary to be somebody! How public, like a frog To tell your name the livelong day To an admiring bog!
This is where I need some intellectual help.... Can anyone see anything in this poem that might shed some light on Master Longbottom? I guess it could be coincidence that the poem has the same name as Neville's comment, but it does include a reference to a frog (perhaps Trevor??)...
Any thoughts?
Is the writer pointing towards a N/L 'ship?
Czarina--
What is a Hero? Isn't he the strongest male character in a Book/Movie/Play? That's Harry.
Who is a Heroine? She's the strongest Female character in a Book/Movie/Play. That's Hermione.
Ron, well he is easily, the second-strongest character in the books. So, had Harry not existed, he would've been the Hero.
Ginny? I'd say she is more of a supporting actress than a Heroine. She just doesn't have enough page time to be called a Heroine.
--Thanks--
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Green Eyes - Jul 12, 2004 8:40 pm (#1339 of 2916)
The Harry Potter books are about a male character...they are named for him, therefore HE is the HERO or protagonist. If the books were titled Hermione Granger and the .... then the books would have a HEROINE.
Hermione is a strong female character and Ron a strong male character and in relation to the HERO - Harry, they qualify as the sidekicks. The supporting characters along with Ginny and the other Weasley's are Neville, et. al. Voldemort is the anti-hero or villain/antagonist. Through the side kicks and other supporting characters the HERO learns about himself, and grows in order to achieve his objective - in this case, the defeat of Voldemort.
Just because Hermione is the strongest female character doesn't automatically make her the love interest of the HERO. In fact in Hermione's case, it seems to me this would diminish her character. She functions as a counselor to Harry...a mother figure as I have stated before she is extremely important in this role. Not in any other in relation to Harry.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 12, 2004 8:41 pm (#1340 of 2916)
Ginny? I'd say she is more of a supporting actress than a Heroine. She just doesn't have enough page time to be called a Heroine.
Ginny is becoming a much stronger character, and her page time in OotP grew by leaps and bounds.
Sirius was a mere mention in the first book but starred in the third, after all.
Ginny and Harry share something no one else does... they've both been possessed by Voldemort, whether diary or current time.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 12, 2004 10:01 pm (#1341 of 2916)
Tornedo,
Perhaps, the reference ties into Neville's attitudes toward himself at the beginning of the book, They seem to me similar to Ron's feelings about himself in the beginning of Philosopher's Stone ehen Ron tells Harry about his older brothers.
Everyone expects me to do as well as the others, but if I do it's no big deal, because they did it first. The quote is found on page 142 of the large print edition publidhed by Thorndike Press,
Best Regards, Nathan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 10:05 pm (#1342 of 2916)
Let it snow!
A very good point, Green Eyes. Hermione wouldn't actually qualify as a heroine in this story unless she was one of the main protagonists, but there is only one main protagonist in this story - Harry. Otherwise, it would be "Harry Potter and Hermione Granger and the..." on the titles of all the books. She's just another strong supporting character, one of the most important of the supporting characters, just as Ron is.....
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 12, 2004 10:16 pm (#1343 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
S.E. Jones, I couldn't agree more. I also think that it would be the same kind of cliché JKR tends to avoid by pairing him with the obvious, Hermione. I really think that Harry's eventual love interest will be beneficial to both of them. There is nothing more that can be added to Harry's and Hermione's current relationship, actually, alot can be lost by it. Relationships cause people to learn, grow, and evolve. Harry needs someone that will add new depth to his life; someone to provide some fun, excitement, and stability. Perhaps this is Pansy, or not maybe Luna, not his best friend. (especially one who would definitely annoy Harry to the nth degree.
EDIT: S.E. Jones, my agreement was with your definition of Hermione as not a hero. I should have been more clear. As for love based on logic, well I just don't know.
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Courtney22 - Jul 12, 2004 10:29 pm (#1344 of 2916)
To make one final post on the whole love and logic argument I think we will just have to agree to disagree. Though I agree with all of your points I just personally hate to think of love and relationships in that way. For me it just seems to take the romance out of the idea of love. If it were a simple matter of balance and counter balance what makes the whole thing of being in love special? Also I think if it were just a matter of balance and counter balance then most of the relationships suggested are possible. For me personally there's got to be that something extra and that was the only point I was tying to make.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 12, 2004 10:44 pm (#1345 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Courtney, one thing about love is that it is not always rational and makes those under its influence irrational at times. People are drawn to other people for various reasons and needs; some are positive and some are negative. People are more likely to seek out those who fulfill a desire or emptiness inside of themselves. So, this is my way of agreeing with you and others. Sometimes love is born out of a need for balance, therefore we can all be right.
PANSY and HARRY*
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S.E. Jones - Jul 12, 2004 10:44 pm (#1346 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Courtney: If it were a simple matter of balance and counter balance what makes the whole thing of being in love special?..... For me personally there's got to be that something extra...
If it makes you feel any better, you might note that I did note that something extra:
(Post 1331): "Sometimes there is that extra something, that extra spark, that turns a friendship into love."
And, I'm still not saying you would consider these things first, just that, if you considered them later, you would find they exist. There is a science to love, even if we don't think about it at the time. What fun would that be?
You can be compatible with many people without feeling that "spark" with any of them that makes you fall in love. That spark is undefinable, true. But people who aren't compatible/complementary in some way don't have long lasting relationships. I'm debating about how complementary couples are, not the undefinable spark. That comes later....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 1:26 am (#1347 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
"Ginny and Harry share something no one else does... they've both been possessed by Voldemort, whether diary or current time." --Weeny Owl.
Actually, Harry and Hermione have a lot in common than Harry and Ginny have.
Green Eyes, interesting point in post 1338. Going off topic a bit, which role doy you think Dumbledore fulfills in context to your post?
"Hermione wouldn't actually qualify as a heroine in this story unless she was one of the main protagonists, but there is only one main protagonist in this story - Harry. Otherwise, it would be "Harry Potter and Hermione Granger and the..." -- S.E Jones.
Sarah, I must disagree their. A person need not have his/her name in the Title to become Hero/Heroine in the series. For example, in series like "Superman" and "Phantom", only the Hero's name is mentioned in the title, but there is a Heroine in both of them.
I think this is exellent time to say something I wanted to say for a long time. Well, actually, I used to support a R/Hr ending 'till OotP was released. But if you observe all the 5 books carefully, you will notice that after Harry and Ron have their spat in GoF, things haven't been the same between the two of them. Before their fight, Ron seemed to have more influence on Harry than Hermione, but after their quarrel, even after things mended between them, Hermione seems to have more influence on Harry. As we read from Harry's POV, Hermione gets considerable amount of page time more than Ron does in OotP. If this trend continues, Hermione would be as important as Harry in book 7. In addition, Ron seems to be more of Harry's shadow in OotP than in any of the other 4 books. Hermione on the other hand seems to be more of an Individual in OotP than in any of the 4 previous books.
Now think, what are the functions of each of the Trio? Harry's function is of course to fight Lord Voldemort. Hermione's function is to be well, the Brain of the trio and figure out the mysteries and help others with their homework and may be liberate Elves. Ron's function is to help us and Harry familiarise with the Wizarding World, to be a faithfull friend to Harry, and crack a few jokes to lighten the atmosphere. Now, of these, we are already familiar with the Wizarding World. Harry already has many faithful friends like Neville, Ginny other than Ron. Thus, Ron's work has been reduced to just being the Comic relief of the Trio. May be, he gets some added responsibilities like Quidditch and Prefect duties, but that's it really. No wonder Ron got less page time in OotP. So, if you think Ron, with this reduced page time is Harry's Sidekick, then Hermione, with an increased Page time is certainly something more.
To quote someone from this Forum (I don't remember who), that's just my two knuts
--Thanks--
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 13, 2004 1:48 am (#1348 of 2916)
Reading between the lines (if that's what I was doing), I'd say that Ron wants Harry and Ginny to go out (although Ginny is no longer smitten with Harry), and he himself wants to date Hermione.
I'm not sure how Hermione's relationship will turn out. I can definitely see something going on between Harry and Hermione (even if they can't...), but on the other hand, the expression "bickering as if they were betrothed" could accurately describe Ron and Hermione.
Plus, 15-year-old Ron and Hermione bear an uncanny resemblence to 15-year-old James and Lily, and we all know how the latter turned out...
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S.E. Jones - Jul 13, 2004 2:11 am (#1349 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: A person need not have his/her name in the Title to become Hero/Heroine in the series. For example, in series like "Superman" and "Phantom", only the Hero's name is mentioned in the title, but there is a Heroine in both of them.
I never said she had to have her name in the title to be considered a heroine, I said she had to be one of the main protagonists, which she isn't. (Post 1341: "Hermione wouldn't actually qualify as a heroine in this story unless she was one of the main protagonists, but there is only one main protagonist in this story - Harry.") She's a supporting character. One of the most important supporting characters, true, but still not a main protagonist. This story is written with just one main protagonist and that is Harry. I think Green Eyes phrased it very well in her last post, if you want a better explanation....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 6:01 am (#1350 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Paulus, Ron does want Harry and Ginny to get together. But does he have the resourcefullness and subtlity to do so? I think not. Now if Hermione desired, it may happen, but her feelings have been mostly kept under covers by JKR, so, we won't know what she thinks untill may be even the seventh book.
Having read all the messages on this thread (at last) I'm inclined to say that both H/Hr and R/Hr ships have got an equal chance, may be R/Hr shipers has an edge over H/Hr shipers, but we don't yet know one important thing. We still don't know Hermione's feelings. As far as I see it, she's still not shown any signs of being intrested in any one but Victor Krum, but then, I don't think She'll end up with Krum atleast. Then there is another point, Why does Hermione have to pair off at all? for that matter, why should any one of the trio pair off with any one at all? Now, I know that JKR has said that Harry will have a couple of dates, but does it have to be serious? After all, a majority of Wizards and Witches we've met aren't married. I'm now begining to think that none of the main characters will pair off at least at the end of the seventh book. I mean they'll be just 17. They'll have their whole Extra-Long life left for Romance.
Well, that's my thought. Is any one with me here?
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 1351 to 1400)
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drippan - Jul 13, 2004 6:04 am (#1351 of 2916)
Hello everyone,
New to the forum and this is the first time posting in here!
The thing that shocked me the most reading through past posts is the Harry/Hermione relationship. My wife and I have discussed Ron and Hermione's 'ship since the first book. Couldn't see it any other way.
Ron is an earthy guy. He takes into accounts other peoples feeling and gets along with alot of people. This comes from being in a large and loving family. You can see his reaction of being a prefect. He takes everything in stride around him.
Hermione is flying around in the clouds. I think her intelligent separates her from people. She thinks she thinks she is above everybody (boy, is that going to tick people off). She wants to be the authoritive figure and you can see it in her role as prefect.
Hermione needs to take a chill pill in order to "play well with others". Ron needs a authoritive pill in order to find out how strong an individual he can be.
Chill pill=Ron
Authoritive pill=Hermione
Another thing I can see is the way Ron/Hermione would raise their kids. I see about a dozen kids all with red, puffy hair. Hermione would have so much occupying her mind that she would have to stay grounded to show the love to her kids. Ron would have no choice but to become more authoritive. They could both maintain their individuality (Hermione home schooling the rugrats, Ron playing Quidditch with them) complimenting each other.
If Harry/Hermione hooked up, maybe one or two kids. Hermione would difinantly in charge making all the decisions. Poor Harry would have to listen to Hermione too much (for example "Harry, I read in the book "Raising Wee Witches and Wizards" the best way to handle that is to ................")
I would love to see the Neville/Luna matchup. Neville (who, unlike Harry) has had to live with his insane parents all his life. Harry never knew his parents. Neville has lived with his grandmother all his life, sees his folks on a regular basis, and has had to live with the rest of his family thinking he was not a wizard. IMO, his life has been more tormented than Harry's. He needs to have fun in his life and I would love to see him going on an adventure with Luna and her dad. He deserves it.
Harry can end up with quite a few girls. Ginny is my best guess. Susan Bones would be good also. Luna: questionable (even though they share alot of feelings doesn't mean she's still not too wacko for Harry!).
I think the biggest thing Harry wants more than Quidditch, Hogwarts, and friends is a family. Look at how elated he felt when he was going to go with Serious in PoA! Look at his reactions whenever he is around the Weasleys! Harry knows that he is loved by the Weasleys and that they accept him as part of the family. This is not the same as being a part of a family. Harry feels "adopted" by them but still feels that he is outside the family circle.
Harry needs a well level individual. One with a good mind, loving, acceptance, caring, supportive, and a sense of humor. I don't see Harry with a lot of kids. He would want to give all his love to a small group (this is due to making up for his childhood?) and his life as an Auror would, in my opinion, keep him traveling alot.
I can see Ginny or Susan going on adventures with Harry more than Harry/Hermione.
Here's a good question that has got me puzzled? Susan Bones aunt is part of the justice dept. Are the Aurors under control of that dept? If so, then it is more likely that Amelia Bones was an Auror before being moved into her position. That means Susan has a good chance of being an Auror.....
Well, that was alot. Didn't mean to go on that long....OOPS!
DripPan
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Nidhi - Jul 13, 2004 8:55 am (#1352 of 2916)
tornedo: Why does Hermione have to pair off at all?
I agree with you. But I still feel that H\Hr do have a chance. As far as Ron and Hermione are concerned, I think Harry and Hermione's relationship is far more trusting and understanding.
Like drippan I would love to see Neville & Luna together.
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Star Crossed - Jul 13, 2004 9:21 am (#1353 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ron and Hermione trust and understand each other. Harry does not trust Hermione, as he lies to her and refuses to tell her other things. That's not very trusting.
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Denise P. - Jul 13, 2004 10:27 am (#1354 of 2916)
Ravenclaw Pony
Harry lies to everyone, Hermione is no different. He lies to Dumbledore, McGonnagal, Ron, Hermione, Sirius...no one is immune.
Ron also lies to Hermione. I don't think one can accurately predict a relationship based on the lies that one of the people may tell the other.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 13, 2004 11:16 am (#1355 of 2916)
In battle, Harry and Hermione depend on each other quite a bit.
So I guess they're more like comerades-in-arms than lovers...
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 11:23 am (#1356 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Nidhi, are you from India? Which city?
Here's some thing you all would find interesting. It was posted by Steve Newton on Hermione Granger thread:
In the meeting at with Rita Skeeter in OOTP Hermione cuts off Rita's question about her and Harry's relationship. She says, sorry can't quote, that she doesn't want Rita to write anything about this.
What bothers me about this is that she had encouraged Harry to bring Cho to the interview.
I figure that either she wanted to throw Rita off the track or she knew that Harry was going down in flames.
Would this make her cold and calculating? --Steve Newton
Well, another point towards the No-Ship argument is of course the Christmas Presents thing. This is a link I found a while ago. I may have posted it, I don't recollect, but here it is anyway.
Essay on Christmas Presents
As you see, this essay basically points to the fact that how Christmas Presents in OotP can be used to reflect the thinking of each member of the trio. It eventualy concludes saying that Hermione thinks the two boys equally and intimates them to stay away from her.
--Happy Reading--
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 13, 2004 11:28 am (#1357 of 2916)
Harry and Hermione are similar to each other in many respects. It could be argued that if J.K. Rowling had envisioned the series with a girl instead, the central character would been a Hermionesque character.
I see Harry as being similar in temperament to Hermione. So much so, that if Hermione had been born a boy, her name would have been Harry.
Best Regards, Nathan
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drippan - Jul 13, 2004 12:24 pm (#1358 of 2916)
Lying in a relationship (or beginning of a relationship) is funny. I remember reading somewhere that lying does not hurt a friendship or lovers as bad as most think.
I think it was due to "actions speak louder than words".
Little bit of tidbit for everyone.
BTW, after reading my post again, how do other people see a R/Hr or H/Hr or any other 'ships future would look? How many kids, what type of home life, living, etc.?
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 12:34 pm (#1359 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I still think there won't be any of the trio in any serious 'Ship.
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haymoni - Jul 13, 2004 12:39 pm (#1360 of 2916)
I tend to agree - boyfriend/girlfriend, but nothing serious.
A bit of snogging but nothing more.
Now Bill and Fleur...it would be kindof cool to see a wizard wedding.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 12:52 pm (#1361 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You guys mark my words, we'll be seeing the Potters' wedding in the Pensive. Trust me.
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total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 12:59 pm (#1362 of 2916)
I believe you Tornedo. What bugs me is the significance of the wedding scene to the plot.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 1:20 pm (#1363 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, nothing really, just add some well, fun to the story, get to know about Wizarding traditions and yes, did I say? We can get to know James and Lily more that way. Who else could tell us more about the pair of them than Sirius? Well he's dead. Wrong. He was the Best man in Potters' wedding. He'd probably given a speech on the pair of them. We just need Harry to visit the right memory... and find out. After all, JKR did say that we'd find out something big about Lily in Bk 7. Well, I guess we'd visit the wedding then. Although, personaly, I'd be more happy if we, get to read the Potters' wedding first hand from Harry... and Hermione.
The debate goes on...
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total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 1:32 pm (#1364 of 2916)
I was hoping that there are events in the wedding that is essential to the plot. I believe Mrs Rowling will do that.
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Padfoot - Jul 13, 2004 3:44 pm (#1365 of 2916)
Whew, finally caught up! After reading some 200+ posts on this thread alone, I feel I should say something too.
I would really like to see a wizard wedding, however I don't think it will be one of the trio (or any current student). Bill and Fleur would be interesting, or perhaps Percy and Penelope.
I would like to see Neville dating Ginny and Ron dating Hermione. I am not sure if they will ever get married, but I do see them dating. As far as Harry goes, I am still not convinced who he will end up with (or even date for that matter). Luna would be as annoying as Cho, so I hope he doesn't go in that direction. As far as all the secondary characters, Harry has not noticed them enough to give us useful information. At this point, I do not see Harry ending up with any of his friends (or peers).
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 8:17 pm (#1366 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I don't see either of the trio ending with anyone although my heart is still on H/Hr. But having said thet, I'm sure Harry will have a couple of dates. JKR said it in some interview. She said "what is life without a bit of romance?" I myself reckon he might go on a few dates, with, well, may be some new characters, or may be he and Cho patch up for a while and then blow everything up, well,Hermione is free for now too but I dunno. Only thing I'll say is it won't be serious.
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Star Crossed - Jul 13, 2004 8:18 pm (#1367 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The thing that has been bothering me, is how unreal dating seems in the WW. Harry, at fifteen, has been on one date. Ron, at fifteen, has been on no dates. Hermione, at fifteen, has been on no dates. They seem like that unreal couple (Not that the three are a couple, but, oh just read on) that dates one person, and they find their true love (Such as Cory and Topanga in Boy Meets World.) I know this isn't a romance story, and I know they're facing Voldemort, but doesn't that number seem to be a little low? Especially for the most famous boy, the smartest girl, and a funny guy/brilliant Chess player/brilliant Quidditch player. They all seem like the type of people whom go on dates. I'm just rambling, I know. But I hope in HBP they start dating. I don't even care if Ron and Hermione don't date (yet), I just want them all to date someone. Am I making any sense at all?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 13, 2004 8:23 pm (#1368 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
They are also the trio which garners the most negative attention. Perhaps there are not enough girls with noses on dead center. Or maybe they are all too tall for Harry. There are few(represented in fiction) guys that have what it takes to date a girl who smarter, stronger, better than they are.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 8:25 pm (#1369 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, I can't say fo Hermione, she might've dated Krum,we never know. Well, Aly, I'd just like to say that the trio are an exception. We know that other students date a lot. Well, at least Ginny does date Michael fairly regularly, and Davis is seen either playing quidditch or kissing a girl. May be, it's because H-R-H have more pressures on them than any other children of their age and hence don't get enough time to date people, or, may be because they still don't like any one yet. I dunno. This just points to the fact that neither of the Trio will be part of any 'Ship.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 8:28 pm (#1370 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
There are few(represented in fiction) guys that have what it takes to date a girl who smarter, stronger, better than they are.-- Sleeping Beauty
Thanks. This is exactly why I think a R/Hr 'ship is not possible.
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Star Crossed - Jul 14, 2004 4:44 am (#1371 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There are few(represented in fiction) guys that have what it takes to date a girl who smarter, stronger, better than they are.-- Sleeping Beauty
Thanks. This is exactly why I think a R/Hr 'ship is not possible.
How do we not know that Ron is one of the guys? I think he needs a smart girl, someone who can help him with his studies.
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tracie1976 - Jul 14, 2004 5:00 am (#1372 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
quote Star Crossed: I think he needs a smart girl, someone who can help him with his studies.
Isn't that what Hermione does with both Harry and Ron? Ron seems to always expect Hermione to help with his studies. She seems to always be lecturing that he needs to study and do his homework on his own. She's relunctant in giving them her notes, saying that they need to pay more attention in class. Harry seems to take her help if she offers to help. Ron just takes her for granted and seems to expect her to help with his studies. Seems to me that Ron needs his mother there to get his homework done not a girlfriend who is acting like his mother.
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Star Crossed - Jul 14, 2004 5:05 am (#1373 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think they both need to restrain a little. Hermione should stop offering (at least) Ron help, and let him grow up with his studies. And Ron should stop expecting the help to be offered and learn how to take on more responsibilities.
Right, I've lost myself. I think I'm arguing about nothing right now. It's too early for my mind to be in control.
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Chris. - Jul 14, 2004 5:06 am (#1374 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Wow! Too many posts!
I now agree that Harry/Ginny was sweet and luvvy-duvvy while it lasted but it may be too fairytale ending for the series.
Harry/Hermione, still, I don't think this is going to happen. Okay, they may have a date or two but I really don't see how this will happen.
Seems to me that Ron needs his mother there to get his homework done not a girlfriend who is acting like his mother.-Tracie1976
Er- I don't think Hermione acts like his mother. Yes, she helps him with homework, maybe more than she helps Harry. Harry needs a mother too sometimes, and I think Hermione has to act like that person when Mrs Weasley is not there.
As for the Trio having a serious 'ship, I don't think any of them will have one. They aren't ready. Harry, Ron and Hermione are not the kind of people to start loving people at first sight.
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Star Crossed - Jul 14, 2004 5:17 am (#1375 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I really hope we don't have to wait forever to find out who was right. We'll have to wait for the epilogue to see who Hermione will end up with (And who the father of her five messy red-headed kids is).
Too bad we don't have a gossip in the books (Stationed at Hogwarts) who can give us the 'Who's With Who'. I think Ron would like that. Might help us find out who Ginny's next boyfriend will be. And no, I don't think it's Dean. I don't think they were ever dating. I doubt they're even friends. It's just a name Ron would know, so she threw it out to tease him. I see Ron as one of those fathers that guys are afraid of. If you want to date his daughter (in Ron's case, sister), then you would have to ask his permission first.
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Nidhi - Jul 14, 2004 6:38 am (#1376 of 2916)
Yeah Tornedo I am from India. From New Delhi.
There's an essay somewhere on the Lexicon on the relationship between Harry and Hermione, which further convinced me that Harry might be paired with Hermione. I hope we get to know whether they date or not in HBP.
I agree with Star Crossed that Ginny might have said that she has 'chosen' Dean just to tease Ron.
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Padfoot - Jul 14, 2004 10:37 am (#1377 of 2916)
We'll have to wait for the epilogue to see who Hermione will end up with (And who the father of her five messy red-headed kids is).
Wouldn't it be an interesting twist if Hermione ended up with Bill or Charlie? (After leaving school of course)
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haymoni - Jul 14, 2004 10:38 am (#1378 of 2916)
Or Fred or George!!!!
Hah - "I'll write to your mother!!"
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 14, 2004 11:26 am (#1379 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
I personally sail on the SS Leather and Libraries and the SS Loonies and Lions...the 'ships' for Draco/Hermione and Harry/Luna. I know a lot of you will think I'm crazy for thinking Draco/Hermione, but I read an article by Tripzy using evidence directly from the books that it's possible. And think about it...on the train in Order of the Phoenix, Draco left only after Hermione told him to leave. Another train incident is in third year, when Draco opens their compartment and says, "Well, look who it is: Potty and the Weasel." Out of innocent curiousity, why doesn't he address Hermione? Plus, there's that whole "forbidden love" thing that's intriguing. Please don't flame me for my opinion - JKR herself said that it would never happen. And, anyway, who's to stay they like each other? I think Draco is intrigued by Hermione, and though it may not be "love" I think there's a certain level of fondness and respect for her. As much as he would hate to admit it, I think he is starting to regard her as an equal. If he ever told Hermione, I think she'd probably think of him more as a friend and not enemy (inter-house unity) but unless he did something totally drastic, I don't think she'd date him. I still wear my L&L hat proudly, though. And the whole Draco/Ginny thing I think was inspired by Romeo and Juliet - two families hate each other and the children fall in love. I don't see Ginny feeling anything but a *possible* physical attraction for Draco, and I don't think Draco could feel anything but contempt for her after her Bat-Bogey Hex.
As for Harry/Luna...well, throughout Order of the Phoenix there was evidence that Harry and Hermione would be together. I was starting to convert from Harry/No One to Harry/Hermione, and then I saw the "bulletin board" scene. Luna, just by being herself, manages to comfort Harry. She has only known him a year, yet seemed to know exactly what he needed to hear in that scene. Her calm, down-to-Mars attitude is exactly what Harry needs to cool down his fiery temper. They share a lot in common as well - both have lost a parent (in Harry's case, both) and can see Thestrals, and they're both famous in their own ways. Neville/Luna shippers like to argue that not only Harry can see Thestrals and have lost a parent, even if in different ways, but the big thing with H/L is that theirs can't come back. Neville can go visit his mother when he's not in Hogwarts; Luna can only visit her mother in dreams, or at a graveyard. The feeling of knowing something or someone is gone and they're not ever coming back to you is the strongest bond between Harry and Luna.
As a side note, I think there is a certain fondness for each other between Neville and Ginny. Ginny defended Neville on the train ("You're not nobody!") and Neville tried to protect Ginny when the Inquisitorial Squad came to take them to Umbridge. I think there's a bit of a spark between the two, and I hope it turns into a flame in books six and seven.
Ron...well, Ron's a tough one. It's pretty clear that there's a certain feeling toward Hermione, though he may not have realized it yet. I don't think he knows what his emotions are. Hermione may care about him on a certain level, but I think that she's awfully confused about it because feelings for Ron are mixed with feelings for Harry, and her sense of logic is keeping her from exploring the depth of those emotions. I decided in Goblet of Fire that Ron/Hermione was inevitable, so I decided to not question those two and leave the rest up to JKR (in canon that is...fanon is still my hope). But Ron's character wasn't explored as much in Order of the Phoenix as it was in the past books; instead, she focused more on Harry and Hermione. Since we only have Harry's point of view, we don't know what emotions Ron and Hermione have for each other. And he's a teenage boy, full of angst, focusing mainly on "saving the world" right now, so he doesn't have a lot of time to consider his feelings. When he does sort them out, whether it be Hermione, Luna, Ginny, or *gasp!* even Cho, I think it will come initially as a shock, but then when it sinks in he'll be like us readers at the end of each book: "Ohhh...it makes sense!" The same goes for Ron, except he won't be so busy with the angst and hero business.
Whew, now that's quite a mouthful out of me for not having posted on here in over a year!
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Potions Mistress - Jul 14, 2004 2:13 pm (#1380 of 2916)
Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason.--Anon.
All right, I posted this on the Snape thread and am now posting it here: Snape seems to be a very lonely person and I think he needs a girlfriend, you know, somebody to share a Love Potion with, frolick through the Forbidden Forest...(would Snape frolick?) I think it should be Rita Skeeter.
Thoughts, anyone?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 14, 2004 2:32 pm (#1381 of 2916)
What about a relationship between Snape and Umbridge. They seem to be suited to each other in terms of personality.
Another intersting and complicated relationship would be one between Snape and Tonks.
Best Regards, Nathan
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 14, 2004 2:35 pm (#1382 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
OK, now you're just being mean to Snape. =).
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Maarcus Humill - Nov 5, 2003 8:34 am (#1383 of 2916)
Well I watched the interview with JK on the COS DVD this morning. I do believe that Ron and Hermione will go out. But then since they kind of "realized" that they liked each other in only the 2nd book when they were young, I think that then they will realize that they wernt meant 2 be and then Harry and Hermione will go out because harry finally realizes that hes loved Hermione for a long time. Then it will be Luna and Ron, and Neville and Ginny.
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drippan - Jul 14, 2004 6:12 pm (#1384 of 2916)
Okay, here's a good thread to start......
What, at the end of Book 7, Harry kills LV dream of being ruler of the world. Let's say in doing so, he makes LV more into other people's feelings. Who would LV be a good match for?
BTW, Snape and Umbridge? Tall and greasy with short and piggy looking........ *trying to deleted picture from my mind*
Pyro: As far as Draco ignoring Hermione on the train or any other times because he thinks she is beneath him, her being a mudblood. Also, I think Draco is a male chauvinist.
Have fun, DripPan
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 14, 2004 6:35 pm (#1385 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
I dunno, DripPan...Tripzy's article was one of the few things that really convinced me. Besides, it's always fun to imagine her reaction if he ever said that he cared about her and really meant it. But if he really considered her insignificant, he'd 'put her in her place' by saying some rude remark. 'Male chauvinist'...possibly to those he can't bear to be around. But not to all. As you will notice, I stand on the 'decks of my ships' proudly, and no matter what 'storms' I face I will never lose my 'balance'. (Gah, obsession with metaphors...ish.) In other words, I am convinced by canon evidence that there are some feelings Draco has for Hermione that are not contempt and superiority.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:05 pm (#1386 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ah, exactly a month since I joined this Forum. I guess that makes me a month old now.
As for the Trio having a serious 'ship, I don't think any of them will have one. They aren't ready. Harry, Ron and Hermione are not the kind of people to start loving people at first sight. --Prongs
You are right Prongs. I don't think any of the Trio would get together in the 7 books at least.
We'll have to wait for the epilogue to see who Hermione will end up with (And who the father of her five messy red-headed kids is). --Star Crossed
Aly, I sincerely hope JKR doesn't write an Epilogue to this series. That would rule out the possibility of any further book. Come to think about it, if none of the trio pair off with anyone by the end of series, we might carry this argument till we are all ninety and old. JKR would enjoy that
Er- I don't think Hermione acts like his mother. Yes, she helps him with homework, maybe more than she helps Harry. Harry needs a mother too sometimes, and I think Hermione has to act like that person when Mrs Weasley is not there. -- Prongs
Well, that's something came into my mind as well. Many R/Hr 'shippers claim that Ron-Hermione are just like Arthur-Molly. The problem with this Argument is that they aren't like Arthur-Molly. A Arthur-Molly disagreement is a preety much one way argument. Molly's the only one doing the talking. This sounds like Harry-Hermione rather than Ron-Hermione. Also, we know that Harry can be really stubborn when he does argue. We've seen Arthur argue only once really-- in PoA about telling Harry about Sirius murdering him. Actually Arthur argued with Molly just like Harry argues with Hermione. He even hit his fist on the table which is exactly what Harry would do.
Would someone give a link to this Tripzy's article?
Yeah Tornedo I am from India. From New Delhi.-- Nidhi.
Well, I'm from Mumbai. There's another Indian 'round here, Devika, she's from Chennai. That's three now.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 14, 2004 11:18 pm (#1387 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: I sincerely hope JKR doesn't write an Epilogue to this series.
She's already written the Epilogue, Tornedo. She showed it to the camera on her A&E Biography interview (though she never took it out of the folder it was in). Supposedly the last word of the Epilogue is 'scar'.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:23 pm (#1388 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Oh no! I hope she changes her mind and doesn't publish that and instead writes another book. I don't know how life would be without anticipation of another Harry Potter book. Why can't JKR write 100+ books like Sir P.G Wodehouse?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 14, 2004 11:26 pm (#1389 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
The only thing recognizable on Harry is his scar. I gave away the ending. Ha. Seriously, back to the shipping. Whose for a Dudlely+witch pairing. ME!! Dudley will fall madly in love with Hermione. Since she is so forgiving and understanding she will date him.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:30 pm (#1390 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Dudley/Hermione. I'm Seriously Joking but, it would be interesting. Harry wiil be sooo happy, he might even forgive Malfoy. Hehee
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S.E. Jones - Jul 14, 2004 11:38 pm (#1391 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I seriously like Dudley marrying a witch (not Hermione). Can you imagine how his poor parents would take the news? Now all we have to do is wait for Dudley and Harry to forgive and forget and for Harry to start introducing Dud to his friends....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:45 pm (#1392 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
What if Dudley marries a woman and doesn't know she's a witch. Now that is what I would like. Tom Riddle deja vu?
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 15, 2004 1:13 am (#1393 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
Tornedo, I will be delighted to give you a link to Tripzy's article on how 'Dramione' is possible. (And anyone else who is mildly interested. It's well worth the read.)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 2:37 am (#1394 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Thanks pyro... I'm reading it now. I'll give my reactions to you later. (Don't expect them to be good. I personally don't give much to D/H ship, but then it doesn't hurt to read everyone's views does it?)
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 3:15 am (#1395 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Read it. Good article. Definately more realistic and convincing than the 'shipping essay by Angua. But I think the Author has gone a bit too far at some places. Then, there's JKR's comments about D/Hr ship. I'm not totally convinced yet. I'm still a no-Shipper, and give my blessings to H/Hr 'ship.
Once again, thanks for the link. I wish we had a saperatew thread where we could all discuss the essays we read on our favourite book in Detail.
Happy Bastile day to all our French friends.
Salutations from The Tornedo.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 15, 2004 4:12 am (#1396 of 2916)
Well, James' head deflated in his sixth and seventh years... and what with Lucius (briefly) in Azkaban and most of the Wizarding world refusing to take his bribes, Draco's head might also deflate in his sixth and seventh years.
Only then would a serious relationship between Draco and Hermione be possible, I think.
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 15, 2004 8:46 am (#1397 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hey Pyro, nice to see you've escaped from St Mungos for a bit
The 'ol Draco & Hermione ship.... hee hee! I remember writing a post... waaaay back (post 234 & the next few replies which further the discussion if anyone is interested) I suggested that Draco has a bit of a fascination with Hermione.... thus the reason he's so nasty. Sort of he 'loves to hate her'. However I think Hermione wouldn't touch him with a Ten foot barge pole. Ms Rowling put any thoughts on this ship to rest in the Web chat in march.... oh well.... there's always fan fic.... right Pyro
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Padfoot - Jul 15, 2004 11:07 am (#1398 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 15, 2004 11:07 am
What if Dudley marries a woman and doesn't know she's a witch.
Well it worked out well for Seamus' parents. (And for Darren and Samantha on Bewitched) So it could happen. I rather hope that does not happen. I would feel very sorry for whoever married Dudley. Unless it is an Umbridge type of witch. Then I give that relationship my full blessing.
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haymoni - Jul 15, 2004 11:08 am (#1399 of 2916)
Dudley & Millicent.
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Chris. - Jul 15, 2004 11:13 am (#1400 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Oo... a weird but interesting 'ship.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hello everyone,
New to the forum and this is the first time posting in here!
The thing that shocked me the most reading through past posts is the Harry/Hermione relationship. My wife and I have discussed Ron and Hermione's 'ship since the first book. Couldn't see it any other way.
Ron is an earthy guy. He takes into accounts other peoples feeling and gets along with alot of people. This comes from being in a large and loving family. You can see his reaction of being a prefect. He takes everything in stride around him.
Hermione is flying around in the clouds. I think her intelligent separates her from people. She thinks she thinks she is above everybody (boy, is that going to tick people off). She wants to be the authoritive figure and you can see it in her role as prefect.
Hermione needs to take a chill pill in order to "play well with others". Ron needs a authoritive pill in order to find out how strong an individual he can be.
Chill pill=Ron
Authoritive pill=Hermione
Another thing I can see is the way Ron/Hermione would raise their kids. I see about a dozen kids all with red, puffy hair. Hermione would have so much occupying her mind that she would have to stay grounded to show the love to her kids. Ron would have no choice but to become more authoritive. They could both maintain their individuality (Hermione home schooling the rugrats, Ron playing Quidditch with them) complimenting each other.
If Harry/Hermione hooked up, maybe one or two kids. Hermione would difinantly in charge making all the decisions. Poor Harry would have to listen to Hermione too much (for example "Harry, I read in the book "Raising Wee Witches and Wizards" the best way to handle that is to ................")
I would love to see the Neville/Luna matchup. Neville (who, unlike Harry) has had to live with his insane parents all his life. Harry never knew his parents. Neville has lived with his grandmother all his life, sees his folks on a regular basis, and has had to live with the rest of his family thinking he was not a wizard. IMO, his life has been more tormented than Harry's. He needs to have fun in his life and I would love to see him going on an adventure with Luna and her dad. He deserves it.
Harry can end up with quite a few girls. Ginny is my best guess. Susan Bones would be good also. Luna: questionable (even though they share alot of feelings doesn't mean she's still not too wacko for Harry!).
I think the biggest thing Harry wants more than Quidditch, Hogwarts, and friends is a family. Look at how elated he felt when he was going to go with Serious in PoA! Look at his reactions whenever he is around the Weasleys! Harry knows that he is loved by the Weasleys and that they accept him as part of the family. This is not the same as being a part of a family. Harry feels "adopted" by them but still feels that he is outside the family circle.
Harry needs a well level individual. One with a good mind, loving, acceptance, caring, supportive, and a sense of humor. I don't see Harry with a lot of kids. He would want to give all his love to a small group (this is due to making up for his childhood?) and his life as an Auror would, in my opinion, keep him traveling alot.
I can see Ginny or Susan going on adventures with Harry more than Harry/Hermione.
Here's a good question that has got me puzzled? Susan Bones aunt is part of the justice dept. Are the Aurors under control of that dept? If so, then it is more likely that Amelia Bones was an Auror before being moved into her position. That means Susan has a good chance of being an Auror.....
Well, that was alot. Didn't mean to go on that long....OOPS!
DripPan
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Nidhi - Jul 13, 2004 8:55 am (#1352 of 2916)
tornedo: Why does Hermione have to pair off at all?
I agree with you. But I still feel that H\Hr do have a chance. As far as Ron and Hermione are concerned, I think Harry and Hermione's relationship is far more trusting and understanding.
Like drippan I would love to see Neville & Luna together.
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Star Crossed - Jul 13, 2004 9:21 am (#1353 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ron and Hermione trust and understand each other. Harry does not trust Hermione, as he lies to her and refuses to tell her other things. That's not very trusting.
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Denise P. - Jul 13, 2004 10:27 am (#1354 of 2916)
Ravenclaw Pony
Harry lies to everyone, Hermione is no different. He lies to Dumbledore, McGonnagal, Ron, Hermione, Sirius...no one is immune.
Ron also lies to Hermione. I don't think one can accurately predict a relationship based on the lies that one of the people may tell the other.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 13, 2004 11:16 am (#1355 of 2916)
In battle, Harry and Hermione depend on each other quite a bit.
So I guess they're more like comerades-in-arms than lovers...
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 11:23 am (#1356 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Nidhi, are you from India? Which city?
Here's some thing you all would find interesting. It was posted by Steve Newton on Hermione Granger thread:
In the meeting at with Rita Skeeter in OOTP Hermione cuts off Rita's question about her and Harry's relationship. She says, sorry can't quote, that she doesn't want Rita to write anything about this.
What bothers me about this is that she had encouraged Harry to bring Cho to the interview.
I figure that either she wanted to throw Rita off the track or she knew that Harry was going down in flames.
Would this make her cold and calculating? --Steve Newton
Well, another point towards the No-Ship argument is of course the Christmas Presents thing. This is a link I found a while ago. I may have posted it, I don't recollect, but here it is anyway.
Essay on Christmas Presents
As you see, this essay basically points to the fact that how Christmas Presents in OotP can be used to reflect the thinking of each member of the trio. It eventualy concludes saying that Hermione thinks the two boys equally and intimates them to stay away from her.
--Happy Reading--
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 13, 2004 11:28 am (#1357 of 2916)
Harry and Hermione are similar to each other in many respects. It could be argued that if J.K. Rowling had envisioned the series with a girl instead, the central character would been a Hermionesque character.
I see Harry as being similar in temperament to Hermione. So much so, that if Hermione had been born a boy, her name would have been Harry.
Best Regards, Nathan
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drippan - Jul 13, 2004 12:24 pm (#1358 of 2916)
Lying in a relationship (or beginning of a relationship) is funny. I remember reading somewhere that lying does not hurt a friendship or lovers as bad as most think.
I think it was due to "actions speak louder than words".
Little bit of tidbit for everyone.
BTW, after reading my post again, how do other people see a R/Hr or H/Hr or any other 'ships future would look? How many kids, what type of home life, living, etc.?
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 12:34 pm (#1359 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I still think there won't be any of the trio in any serious 'Ship.
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haymoni - Jul 13, 2004 12:39 pm (#1360 of 2916)
I tend to agree - boyfriend/girlfriend, but nothing serious.
A bit of snogging but nothing more.
Now Bill and Fleur...it would be kindof cool to see a wizard wedding.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 12:52 pm (#1361 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You guys mark my words, we'll be seeing the Potters' wedding in the Pensive. Trust me.
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total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 12:59 pm (#1362 of 2916)
I believe you Tornedo. What bugs me is the significance of the wedding scene to the plot.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 1:20 pm (#1363 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, nothing really, just add some well, fun to the story, get to know about Wizarding traditions and yes, did I say? We can get to know James and Lily more that way. Who else could tell us more about the pair of them than Sirius? Well he's dead. Wrong. He was the Best man in Potters' wedding. He'd probably given a speech on the pair of them. We just need Harry to visit the right memory... and find out. After all, JKR did say that we'd find out something big about Lily in Bk 7. Well, I guess we'd visit the wedding then. Although, personaly, I'd be more happy if we, get to read the Potters' wedding first hand from Harry... and Hermione.
The debate goes on...
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total hatred - Jul 13, 2004 1:32 pm (#1364 of 2916)
I was hoping that there are events in the wedding that is essential to the plot. I believe Mrs Rowling will do that.
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Padfoot - Jul 13, 2004 3:44 pm (#1365 of 2916)
Whew, finally caught up! After reading some 200+ posts on this thread alone, I feel I should say something too.
I would really like to see a wizard wedding, however I don't think it will be one of the trio (or any current student). Bill and Fleur would be interesting, or perhaps Percy and Penelope.
I would like to see Neville dating Ginny and Ron dating Hermione. I am not sure if they will ever get married, but I do see them dating. As far as Harry goes, I am still not convinced who he will end up with (or even date for that matter). Luna would be as annoying as Cho, so I hope he doesn't go in that direction. As far as all the secondary characters, Harry has not noticed them enough to give us useful information. At this point, I do not see Harry ending up with any of his friends (or peers).
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 8:17 pm (#1366 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I don't see either of the trio ending with anyone although my heart is still on H/Hr. But having said thet, I'm sure Harry will have a couple of dates. JKR said it in some interview. She said "what is life without a bit of romance?" I myself reckon he might go on a few dates, with, well, may be some new characters, or may be he and Cho patch up for a while and then blow everything up, well,Hermione is free for now too but I dunno. Only thing I'll say is it won't be serious.
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Star Crossed - Jul 13, 2004 8:18 pm (#1367 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The thing that has been bothering me, is how unreal dating seems in the WW. Harry, at fifteen, has been on one date. Ron, at fifteen, has been on no dates. Hermione, at fifteen, has been on no dates. They seem like that unreal couple (Not that the three are a couple, but, oh just read on) that dates one person, and they find their true love (Such as Cory and Topanga in Boy Meets World.) I know this isn't a romance story, and I know they're facing Voldemort, but doesn't that number seem to be a little low? Especially for the most famous boy, the smartest girl, and a funny guy/brilliant Chess player/brilliant Quidditch player. They all seem like the type of people whom go on dates. I'm just rambling, I know. But I hope in HBP they start dating. I don't even care if Ron and Hermione don't date (yet), I just want them all to date someone. Am I making any sense at all?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 13, 2004 8:23 pm (#1368 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
They are also the trio which garners the most negative attention. Perhaps there are not enough girls with noses on dead center. Or maybe they are all too tall for Harry. There are few(represented in fiction) guys that have what it takes to date a girl who smarter, stronger, better than they are.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 8:25 pm (#1369 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, I can't say fo Hermione, she might've dated Krum,we never know. Well, Aly, I'd just like to say that the trio are an exception. We know that other students date a lot. Well, at least Ginny does date Michael fairly regularly, and Davis is seen either playing quidditch or kissing a girl. May be, it's because H-R-H have more pressures on them than any other children of their age and hence don't get enough time to date people, or, may be because they still don't like any one yet. I dunno. This just points to the fact that neither of the Trio will be part of any 'Ship.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 13, 2004 8:28 pm (#1370 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
There are few(represented in fiction) guys that have what it takes to date a girl who smarter, stronger, better than they are.-- Sleeping Beauty
Thanks. This is exactly why I think a R/Hr 'ship is not possible.
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Star Crossed - Jul 14, 2004 4:44 am (#1371 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There are few(represented in fiction) guys that have what it takes to date a girl who smarter, stronger, better than they are.-- Sleeping Beauty
Thanks. This is exactly why I think a R/Hr 'ship is not possible.
How do we not know that Ron is one of the guys? I think he needs a smart girl, someone who can help him with his studies.
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tracie1976 - Jul 14, 2004 5:00 am (#1372 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
quote Star Crossed: I think he needs a smart girl, someone who can help him with his studies.
Isn't that what Hermione does with both Harry and Ron? Ron seems to always expect Hermione to help with his studies. She seems to always be lecturing that he needs to study and do his homework on his own. She's relunctant in giving them her notes, saying that they need to pay more attention in class. Harry seems to take her help if she offers to help. Ron just takes her for granted and seems to expect her to help with his studies. Seems to me that Ron needs his mother there to get his homework done not a girlfriend who is acting like his mother.
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Star Crossed - Jul 14, 2004 5:05 am (#1373 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think they both need to restrain a little. Hermione should stop offering (at least) Ron help, and let him grow up with his studies. And Ron should stop expecting the help to be offered and learn how to take on more responsibilities.
Right, I've lost myself. I think I'm arguing about nothing right now. It's too early for my mind to be in control.
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Chris. - Jul 14, 2004 5:06 am (#1374 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Wow! Too many posts!
I now agree that Harry/Ginny was sweet and luvvy-duvvy while it lasted but it may be too fairytale ending for the series.
Harry/Hermione, still, I don't think this is going to happen. Okay, they may have a date or two but I really don't see how this will happen.
Seems to me that Ron needs his mother there to get his homework done not a girlfriend who is acting like his mother.-Tracie1976
Er- I don't think Hermione acts like his mother. Yes, she helps him with homework, maybe more than she helps Harry. Harry needs a mother too sometimes, and I think Hermione has to act like that person when Mrs Weasley is not there.
As for the Trio having a serious 'ship, I don't think any of them will have one. They aren't ready. Harry, Ron and Hermione are not the kind of people to start loving people at first sight.
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Star Crossed - Jul 14, 2004 5:17 am (#1375 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I really hope we don't have to wait forever to find out who was right. We'll have to wait for the epilogue to see who Hermione will end up with (And who the father of her five messy red-headed kids is).
Too bad we don't have a gossip in the books (Stationed at Hogwarts) who can give us the 'Who's With Who'. I think Ron would like that. Might help us find out who Ginny's next boyfriend will be. And no, I don't think it's Dean. I don't think they were ever dating. I doubt they're even friends. It's just a name Ron would know, so she threw it out to tease him. I see Ron as one of those fathers that guys are afraid of. If you want to date his daughter (in Ron's case, sister), then you would have to ask his permission first.
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Nidhi - Jul 14, 2004 6:38 am (#1376 of 2916)
Yeah Tornedo I am from India. From New Delhi.
There's an essay somewhere on the Lexicon on the relationship between Harry and Hermione, which further convinced me that Harry might be paired with Hermione. I hope we get to know whether they date or not in HBP.
I agree with Star Crossed that Ginny might have said that she has 'chosen' Dean just to tease Ron.
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Padfoot - Jul 14, 2004 10:37 am (#1377 of 2916)
We'll have to wait for the epilogue to see who Hermione will end up with (And who the father of her five messy red-headed kids is).
Wouldn't it be an interesting twist if Hermione ended up with Bill or Charlie? (After leaving school of course)
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haymoni - Jul 14, 2004 10:38 am (#1378 of 2916)
Or Fred or George!!!!
Hah - "I'll write to your mother!!"
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 14, 2004 11:26 am (#1379 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
I personally sail on the SS Leather and Libraries and the SS Loonies and Lions...the 'ships' for Draco/Hermione and Harry/Luna. I know a lot of you will think I'm crazy for thinking Draco/Hermione, but I read an article by Tripzy using evidence directly from the books that it's possible. And think about it...on the train in Order of the Phoenix, Draco left only after Hermione told him to leave. Another train incident is in third year, when Draco opens their compartment and says, "Well, look who it is: Potty and the Weasel." Out of innocent curiousity, why doesn't he address Hermione? Plus, there's that whole "forbidden love" thing that's intriguing. Please don't flame me for my opinion - JKR herself said that it would never happen. And, anyway, who's to stay they like each other? I think Draco is intrigued by Hermione, and though it may not be "love" I think there's a certain level of fondness and respect for her. As much as he would hate to admit it, I think he is starting to regard her as an equal. If he ever told Hermione, I think she'd probably think of him more as a friend and not enemy (inter-house unity) but unless he did something totally drastic, I don't think she'd date him. I still wear my L&L hat proudly, though. And the whole Draco/Ginny thing I think was inspired by Romeo and Juliet - two families hate each other and the children fall in love. I don't see Ginny feeling anything but a *possible* physical attraction for Draco, and I don't think Draco could feel anything but contempt for her after her Bat-Bogey Hex.
As for Harry/Luna...well, throughout Order of the Phoenix there was evidence that Harry and Hermione would be together. I was starting to convert from Harry/No One to Harry/Hermione, and then I saw the "bulletin board" scene. Luna, just by being herself, manages to comfort Harry. She has only known him a year, yet seemed to know exactly what he needed to hear in that scene. Her calm, down-to-Mars attitude is exactly what Harry needs to cool down his fiery temper. They share a lot in common as well - both have lost a parent (in Harry's case, both) and can see Thestrals, and they're both famous in their own ways. Neville/Luna shippers like to argue that not only Harry can see Thestrals and have lost a parent, even if in different ways, but the big thing with H/L is that theirs can't come back. Neville can go visit his mother when he's not in Hogwarts; Luna can only visit her mother in dreams, or at a graveyard. The feeling of knowing something or someone is gone and they're not ever coming back to you is the strongest bond between Harry and Luna.
As a side note, I think there is a certain fondness for each other between Neville and Ginny. Ginny defended Neville on the train ("You're not nobody!") and Neville tried to protect Ginny when the Inquisitorial Squad came to take them to Umbridge. I think there's a bit of a spark between the two, and I hope it turns into a flame in books six and seven.
Ron...well, Ron's a tough one. It's pretty clear that there's a certain feeling toward Hermione, though he may not have realized it yet. I don't think he knows what his emotions are. Hermione may care about him on a certain level, but I think that she's awfully confused about it because feelings for Ron are mixed with feelings for Harry, and her sense of logic is keeping her from exploring the depth of those emotions. I decided in Goblet of Fire that Ron/Hermione was inevitable, so I decided to not question those two and leave the rest up to JKR (in canon that is...fanon is still my hope). But Ron's character wasn't explored as much in Order of the Phoenix as it was in the past books; instead, she focused more on Harry and Hermione. Since we only have Harry's point of view, we don't know what emotions Ron and Hermione have for each other. And he's a teenage boy, full of angst, focusing mainly on "saving the world" right now, so he doesn't have a lot of time to consider his feelings. When he does sort them out, whether it be Hermione, Luna, Ginny, or *gasp!* even Cho, I think it will come initially as a shock, but then when it sinks in he'll be like us readers at the end of each book: "Ohhh...it makes sense!" The same goes for Ron, except he won't be so busy with the angst and hero business.
Whew, now that's quite a mouthful out of me for not having posted on here in over a year!
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Potions Mistress - Jul 14, 2004 2:13 pm (#1380 of 2916)
Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason.--Anon.
All right, I posted this on the Snape thread and am now posting it here: Snape seems to be a very lonely person and I think he needs a girlfriend, you know, somebody to share a Love Potion with, frolick through the Forbidden Forest...(would Snape frolick?) I think it should be Rita Skeeter.
Thoughts, anyone? - - - - - - - - - -
Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 14, 2004 2:32 pm (#1381 of 2916)
What about a relationship between Snape and Umbridge. They seem to be suited to each other in terms of personality.
Another intersting and complicated relationship would be one between Snape and Tonks.
Best Regards, Nathan
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 14, 2004 2:35 pm (#1382 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
OK, now you're just being mean to Snape. =).
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Maarcus Humill - Nov 5, 2003 8:34 am (#1383 of 2916)
Well I watched the interview with JK on the COS DVD this morning. I do believe that Ron and Hermione will go out. But then since they kind of "realized" that they liked each other in only the 2nd book when they were young, I think that then they will realize that they wernt meant 2 be and then Harry and Hermione will go out because harry finally realizes that hes loved Hermione for a long time. Then it will be Luna and Ron, and Neville and Ginny.
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drippan - Jul 14, 2004 6:12 pm (#1384 of 2916)
Okay, here's a good thread to start......
What, at the end of Book 7, Harry kills LV dream of being ruler of the world. Let's say in doing so, he makes LV more into other people's feelings. Who would LV be a good match for?
BTW, Snape and Umbridge? Tall and greasy with short and piggy looking........ *trying to deleted picture from my mind*
Pyro: As far as Draco ignoring Hermione on the train or any other times because he thinks she is beneath him, her being a mudblood. Also, I think Draco is a male chauvinist.
Have fun, DripPan
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 14, 2004 6:35 pm (#1385 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
I dunno, DripPan...Tripzy's article was one of the few things that really convinced me. Besides, it's always fun to imagine her reaction if he ever said that he cared about her and really meant it. But if he really considered her insignificant, he'd 'put her in her place' by saying some rude remark. 'Male chauvinist'...possibly to those he can't bear to be around. But not to all. As you will notice, I stand on the 'decks of my ships' proudly, and no matter what 'storms' I face I will never lose my 'balance'. (Gah, obsession with metaphors...ish.) In other words, I am convinced by canon evidence that there are some feelings Draco has for Hermione that are not contempt and superiority.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:05 pm (#1386 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ah, exactly a month since I joined this Forum. I guess that makes me a month old now.
As for the Trio having a serious 'ship, I don't think any of them will have one. They aren't ready. Harry, Ron and Hermione are not the kind of people to start loving people at first sight. --Prongs
You are right Prongs. I don't think any of the Trio would get together in the 7 books at least.
We'll have to wait for the epilogue to see who Hermione will end up with (And who the father of her five messy red-headed kids is). --Star Crossed
Aly, I sincerely hope JKR doesn't write an Epilogue to this series. That would rule out the possibility of any further book. Come to think about it, if none of the trio pair off with anyone by the end of series, we might carry this argument till we are all ninety and old. JKR would enjoy that
Er- I don't think Hermione acts like his mother. Yes, she helps him with homework, maybe more than she helps Harry. Harry needs a mother too sometimes, and I think Hermione has to act like that person when Mrs Weasley is not there. -- Prongs
Well, that's something came into my mind as well. Many R/Hr 'shippers claim that Ron-Hermione are just like Arthur-Molly. The problem with this Argument is that they aren't like Arthur-Molly. A Arthur-Molly disagreement is a preety much one way argument. Molly's the only one doing the talking. This sounds like Harry-Hermione rather than Ron-Hermione. Also, we know that Harry can be really stubborn when he does argue. We've seen Arthur argue only once really-- in PoA about telling Harry about Sirius murdering him. Actually Arthur argued with Molly just like Harry argues with Hermione. He even hit his fist on the table which is exactly what Harry would do.
Would someone give a link to this Tripzy's article?
Yeah Tornedo I am from India. From New Delhi.-- Nidhi.
Well, I'm from Mumbai. There's another Indian 'round here, Devika, she's from Chennai. That's three now.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 14, 2004 11:18 pm (#1387 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: I sincerely hope JKR doesn't write an Epilogue to this series.
She's already written the Epilogue, Tornedo. She showed it to the camera on her A&E Biography interview (though she never took it out of the folder it was in). Supposedly the last word of the Epilogue is 'scar'.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:23 pm (#1388 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Oh no! I hope she changes her mind and doesn't publish that and instead writes another book. I don't know how life would be without anticipation of another Harry Potter book. Why can't JKR write 100+ books like Sir P.G Wodehouse?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 14, 2004 11:26 pm (#1389 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
The only thing recognizable on Harry is his scar. I gave away the ending. Ha. Seriously, back to the shipping. Whose for a Dudlely+witch pairing. ME!! Dudley will fall madly in love with Hermione. Since she is so forgiving and understanding she will date him.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:30 pm (#1390 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Dudley/Hermione. I'm Seriously Joking but, it would be interesting. Harry wiil be sooo happy, he might even forgive Malfoy. Hehee
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S.E. Jones - Jul 14, 2004 11:38 pm (#1391 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I seriously like Dudley marrying a witch (not Hermione). Can you imagine how his poor parents would take the news? Now all we have to do is wait for Dudley and Harry to forgive and forget and for Harry to start introducing Dud to his friends....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 14, 2004 11:45 pm (#1392 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
What if Dudley marries a woman and doesn't know she's a witch. Now that is what I would like. Tom Riddle deja vu?
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 15, 2004 1:13 am (#1393 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
Tornedo, I will be delighted to give you a link to Tripzy's article on how 'Dramione' is possible. (And anyone else who is mildly interested. It's well worth the read.)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 2:37 am (#1394 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Thanks pyro... I'm reading it now. I'll give my reactions to you later. (Don't expect them to be good. I personally don't give much to D/H ship, but then it doesn't hurt to read everyone's views does it?)
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 3:15 am (#1395 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Read it. Good article. Definately more realistic and convincing than the 'shipping essay by Angua. But I think the Author has gone a bit too far at some places. Then, there's JKR's comments about D/Hr ship. I'm not totally convinced yet. I'm still a no-Shipper, and give my blessings to H/Hr 'ship.
Once again, thanks for the link. I wish we had a saperatew thread where we could all discuss the essays we read on our favourite book in Detail.
Happy Bastile day to all our French friends.
Salutations from The Tornedo.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 15, 2004 4:12 am (#1396 of 2916)
Well, James' head deflated in his sixth and seventh years... and what with Lucius (briefly) in Azkaban and most of the Wizarding world refusing to take his bribes, Draco's head might also deflate in his sixth and seventh years.
Only then would a serious relationship between Draco and Hermione be possible, I think.
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 15, 2004 8:46 am (#1397 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hey Pyro, nice to see you've escaped from St Mungos for a bit
The 'ol Draco & Hermione ship.... hee hee! I remember writing a post... waaaay back (post 234 & the next few replies which further the discussion if anyone is interested) I suggested that Draco has a bit of a fascination with Hermione.... thus the reason he's so nasty. Sort of he 'loves to hate her'. However I think Hermione wouldn't touch him with a Ten foot barge pole. Ms Rowling put any thoughts on this ship to rest in the Web chat in march.... oh well.... there's always fan fic.... right Pyro
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Padfoot - Jul 15, 2004 11:07 am (#1398 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 15, 2004 11:07 am
What if Dudley marries a woman and doesn't know she's a witch.
Well it worked out well for Seamus' parents. (And for Darren and Samantha on Bewitched) So it could happen. I rather hope that does not happen. I would feel very sorry for whoever married Dudley. Unless it is an Umbridge type of witch. Then I give that relationship my full blessing.
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haymoni - Jul 15, 2004 11:08 am (#1399 of 2916)
Dudley & Millicent.
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Chris. - Jul 15, 2004 11:13 am (#1400 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Oo... a weird but interesting 'ship.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 15, 2004 11:47 am (#1401 of 2916)
I like the idea of a Dudley and Millicent relationship. Another interesting possibility would be a relationship between Dudley and Pansy.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 15, 2004 12:31 pm (#1402 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
Dudley and Harry fighting over Pansy. I can't wait to read that part. I would like to see Dudley end up with a witch, just to see how the Dursleys would react, but, considering his up-bringing, I don't think it's likely.
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haymoni - Jul 15, 2004 12:35 pm (#1403 of 2916)
We don't know much about Millicent. Wouldn't it be something if Millicent was the only witch in her family and her brother goes to Smeltings?
Dudley could meet Millicent over the summer.
Where is Smeltings, by the way?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 12:40 pm (#1404 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Yeah, right. The only thing Dudley and Pansy have in common are that they both hate Harry, both are brainless gits and are my least favourite characters. Hey! That's a lot more than what Ron and Hermione have in common... Have I missed anything?
And thus the old debate continues...
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 15, 2004 12:47 pm (#1405 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
Ron and Hermione are both in Gryffindor, they both are friends with Harry, they are two of my favorite characters and they actually know each other. That's four things: you only had three, Tornedo.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 1:07 pm (#1406 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, I could add some more to Dudley/Pansy if you like. They both like to tease people and neither like Ron Weasley. HaHaa, now I've got 5 and you've got 4 nimrod. May be we should do this about H/Hr and R/Hr 'ships. It would be so much fun.
Edit: They've both got the same starting letter for their individual names and surnames. "D" for "Dudley" and "Dursley"; and "P" for "Pansy" and "Parkinson".
D/P=6
R/H=4
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Catherine - Jul 15, 2004 1:19 pm (#1407 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
I hope Marcus comes over to look at this. Knowing him, he'd have a nifty mathematical formula worked out to analzye everything! Sounds like we need a standard checklist :-)
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 15, 2004 1:34 pm (#1408 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
You win, Tornedo. And as a Pansy/anyone-but-Harry 'shipper, I would love to see Pansy with Dudley.
If we did this with H/Hr and R/Hr, I'm sure H/Hr would win. But when we read the books, I think it is obvious that it will be Ron and Hermione.
edit: Catherine, I would imagine that, as we speak, Marcus is plugging every mention of Pansy, Harry, Dudley, Hermione and Ron into his equation, and will have it all sorted out in no time
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 1:38 pm (#1409 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Obvious, my foot. Had it been obvious, we wouldn't have had 90% of the posts we have here now. *Yawn* It's getting late must sleep, Chop, Chop, Good Night.
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eifmp - Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm (#1410 of 2916)
Oh,yeah? Try just try it on our 'shipping thread. Personally, I won't be convinced 'till I read the Epilogue. - Tornedo
It is easy to see Ron and Hermione getting together. Hermione thinks Ron is cute, and even said so in 'OOTP'. Where? When the trio thinks that someone snitched on the Dumbledore Army, Hermione said that it couldn't be possible because that person would be hit with a curse that would make a bad case of acne look like "some cute freckles." We all know Ron has freckles.
Another hidden example. IN 'GOF', when Ron and Harry aren't speaking, Hermione asks Harry to go to Hogsmead with her. Harry replies,"What about Ron, though? Don't you want to go with him?" "Oh...well..." Hermione went slightly pink. "I thought we could meet up with him at the Three Broomsticks."
Also, I type this verbatim from 'GOF'; Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend. So all you H/Hr shippers out there, there is nothing between them.
Also, in 'PS/SS' Hermione introduces herself to Ron and asked Ron who he was, asked him to perform a spell, and even sat next to him, before even knowing what Harry's name was. Wow pretty obvious.
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Padfoot - Jul 15, 2004 2:24 pm (#1411 of 2916)
Also, in 'PS/SS' Hermione introduces herself to Ron and asked Ron who he was, asked him to perform a spell, and even sat next to him, before even knowing what Harry's name was. Wow pretty obvious.
Well I have got to take issue with that. Hermione might have felt more comfortable around Ron when they first met and nervous around Harry (because she was interested in him).
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Potions Mistress - Jul 15, 2004 2:41 pm (#1412 of 2916)
Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason.--Anon.
Nathan Zimmerman, "What about a relationship between Snape and Umbridge. They seem to be suited to each other in terms of personality.
Another intersting and complicated relationship would be one between Snape and Tonks."
I don't know so much about Snape/Umbridge. He's loyal to DD and Umbridge hates him, not to mention that he's a former DE. She'd probably take that horrifible quill of hers to him, and/or get him thrown is Azkaban.
As for Snape/Tonks, you're right, that'd be a VERY complicated relationship, esp. when you consider that Tonks is young enough for Snape to have been her teacher!! :O I kind of wonder how he would handle her klutziness...?
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 15, 2004 2:50 pm (#1413 of 2916)
"Also, I type this verbatim from 'GOF'; Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend. So all you H/Hr shippers out there, there is nothing between them."
As of their fourth year, there was nothing between Harry and Hermione. But as of their fifth year, there was nothing between James and Lily. And you know how that turned out in the end...
By the end of the fifth book, Harry and Hermione had become quite the comrades-in-arms. Sure, their relationship might not evolve past that, but then again it might.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 15, 2004 3:32 pm (#1414 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Nimrod: If we did this with H/Hr and R/Hr, I'm sure H/Hr would win. But when we read the books, I think it is obvious that it will be Ron and Hermione.
I disagree that Ron and Hermione have few things in common, at least fewer than Harry and Hermione. I'm still not sure why people say this. This was brought up before and I pointed out some characteristics shared between all threee in a previous post (897). They are all three very much alike, actually. I think people just see Ron and Hermione as being such opposites because they are given opposing view points to argue, but these view points really don't impact their overall personalities.
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thetheatre62442 - Jul 15, 2004 6:24 pm (#1415 of 2916)
I've got something for you. There was a recent interview with Daniel, Rupert and Emma that appeared in a UK magazine and when the interviewer asked Rupert what was different about him and Ron... ok well, I can't explain it that good so here is a clip from it:
YP: Have you and Ron changed in the 3rd Potter movie? RG: I'm taller and my voice has broken. Ron changes, there's the Hermione budding romance thing going on. Yeah I relate to Ron because we both have ginger hair, big families, and I'm scared of spiders like him. But I'd like Ron to turn a bit evil, that's be cool. I've always wanted to play an evil person!
I have, of course, always wanted a Ron/Hermione 'ship, and so this interview makes me giddy with joy. Excuse me while I go sing to angels on high...
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Green Eyes - Jul 15, 2004 7:47 pm (#1416 of 2916)
Tornedo...in answer to you question in the earlier post about Dumbledore, he is the counselor to the protagonist...he is also a supporting character kind of like Obi Wan to Luke in Star Wars.
The story of Harry Potter is a very archtypeal story of a Quest - have any of you heard of Joseph Campbell? He taught at Columbia University in NY and had a PBS series dealing with the Hero and the Quest.
Star Wars is a similar story to Harry Potter, just placed in different universes. Harry/Luke Hermione/Leia Ron/Han ObiWan/Dumbledore etc etc. The quest follows the trials of a young person who is searching for the power or knowledge to overcome the obstacle(s) in his/her life. Once the magical power is obtained through the wisdom of a mentor, the hero then uses the power to aid the world from which he comes in some way.
The Quest story has fairy tale and/or mythical elements that we find pervasive in all human story telling/literature.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 15, 2004 7:59 pm (#1417 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Joseph Campbell of Hero with a Thousand Faces fame? Of course I have heard of him. Brilliant. There is a Potter guide-book that applies Campbell's theories to the books. It is a good read. He tends to ignore the works that do not match his theories, though. It is a weakness of his, but he is generally decent.
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total hatred - Jul 15, 2004 8:02 pm (#1418 of 2916)
It was never stated that it was a two way romance. It may be a one way romance. His inclination that Ron will be evil will strengthen the fact the Harry and Hermione will be together. What will be the logical explaination why Ron will be evil? The leading possible reason will likely be jelousy. Next will be he will stupid enough to follow Percy.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 15, 2004 8:17 pm (#1419 of 2916)
I found a brilliant essay called "Love Foretold in Runes and in the Heavens" at portkey.org
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This really answers the *why* question for me. Why would JKR put Harry with Hermione when he's not shown any romantic interest in her so far?
H/H is the exact opposite of H/C. Harry's first *feelings* for Cho is physical attraction. Once he starts getting to know her, he realizes that she's really not for him, and just gets over her.
With Hermione, they have built a friendship with faith, trust and a growing closeness and partnership. The last piece will be what the first piece was with Cho, physical attraction. I think this will take Harry by surprise, but he will accept it quite easily. Like the essay says, the love he will have with Hermione is the love he's going to need to fight Big V.
It's quite late, so this isn't worded quite to my liking. I'll add more later.
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total hatred - Jul 15, 2004 8:37 pm (#1420 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 16, 2004 1:39 am
That piece is so good. It really reinforce the H/Hr ship. I believe that the only reason why Luna is here is to provide comfort for Harry if the H/Hr will prosper and serve as catalyst for the ship.
As you can know, Luna is getting closer to Harry and that closeness can be misinterpreted by Hermione as chasing Harry. As a result Hermione will try harder to help Harry, risk her life if she have too and admit to herself that she is really in love with her best friend.
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drippan - Jul 15, 2004 8:47 pm (#1421 of 2916)
I'm so confused!!
H/Hr, R/Hr, D/Hr, N/Hr, Dudley/Hr.......
Feels slightly dizzy...
H/Ginny, H/Pansy, H/Cho, H/Luna, H/Susan.......
Feels queesy.....
R/Hr, R/Luna, R/Pansy, R/Susan.......
Someone please call St Mungo's and have them bring the padded broom for me.....
DripPan
BTW, great arguments on the 'shipping front. Before I entered the forum I thought R/Hr. Now, I'm off to stay with the Longbottoms for a while....
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total hatred - Jul 15, 2004 9:09 pm (#1422 of 2916)
Say hello to Lockheart for me
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 12:50 am (#1423 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Mind the Devil's Snare DripPan. We don't want a Marine to be strangled now do we? Another Essay? Oh, I just love HP essays. I'll give my reactions later Coolbeans.
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haymoni - Jul 16, 2004 5:55 am (#1424 of 2916)
Just because Rupert would like Ron to become evil, doesn't mean JKR wants him to.
Actors LOVE to play the bad guy - they get all the best lines.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 7:05 am (#1425 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I just read the essay that coolbeans3131 provided, and I have to say, that it was quite well written. Not like other essays backing the H/Hr 'ship.
I'll need to think.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 16, 2004 9:55 am (#1426 of 2916)
It might be, but the fact remains, that JKR has specifically stated, that Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends, and that confirms IMO that they are just that. JKR never lied to us, if it concerns stuff that's happening in the future books. Of course everybody can ship whatever they want, but because of this statement I think Harry and Hermione are as likely to become an an item as Grawp and Winky.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 10:14 am (#1427 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Dang! There goes my whole giant/house-elf theory!
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KWeldon - Jul 16, 2004 11:25 am (#1428 of 2916)
Coolbeans,
Thank you for providing that link. Although I am not in favor of a H/Hr ship for reasons I can't really put my finger on, that was the best argument I've seen so far for it being JKR's intentions, and it's left me at a loss for words.
Except...The problem I have with this storyline is that it means that Ron will eventually be incredibly hurt by this, and I have a hard time believing that JKR intended the series to culminate in a true love triangle. Was this really what we've been hooked into anticipating? How disappointing, if it's true.
KWeldon
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 11:49 am (#1429 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't want a love triangle between the Trio. Harry is going to need his friends around him in HbP.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 12:14 pm (#1430 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Wow, great essay, I'm back to Harry/Hermione 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 16, 2004 12:58 pm (#1431 of 2916)
Didn't JKR imply that Ron would die?
Of course, there's a strong possibility that Harry might die, too.
If one of them dies, I think Hermione will go out with the other. If both die... Krum, perhaps...
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Weeny Owl - Jul 16, 2004 1:11 pm (#1432 of 2916)
From an interview, JKR said, "It's great to hear feedback from the kids. Mostly they are really worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend."
I think the trio will survive and Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny will all be part of the Weasley family.
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Czarina II - Jul 16, 2004 3:26 pm (#1433 of 2916)
Seems to me that most of the R/Hr shippers have been staying away lately, because I seem to count a lot more H/Hr people than before. I'm not convinced by that essay, though it was well-written. I haven't been convinced by any essay so far. Until I hear/read it from JKR otherwise, I still stick with Ron and Hermione.
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Star Crossed - Jul 16, 2004 7:14 pm (#1434 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Someone send me a daily IM on either AIM or MSN, telling me to never, ever leave the computer. I come back. 50 new messages on this board alone! So very proud.
Alas, you scurvy H/Hrs. Back, back I say!
Personally, I think H/Hr would ruin what JKR is slowly building up. Harry is being less dependant on Ron and Hermione. He's realising he's the one. Ron and Hermione can only help him so far. There are more and more situations where Ron and Hermione are alone. Am I saying they're snogging away? No, but they're being seperated from Harry. Harry cannot fall upon either of them anymore. If all of a sudden, Harry thinks 'Oh, I need Hermione, but not Ron.' because he apparently loves her, that would ruin the set-up that JKR is showing. He would completely disown Ron because, as oh so many people are saying, he is only a comic relief. He needs both of them (Have I not already mentioned the ying and yang and yong?), not just one. There needs to be a balance. It's possible a relationship between any two of the three could damage this balance, but right now, Harry. Doesn't. Care. He believes Hermione got the point of how Ron feels more than Ron does. He compares them to Arthur and Molly, whom are the only parents he really knows, and whom he really likes. There is so much evidence pointing towards Ron/Hermione, but if we all agreed to it, what would be the point of this discussion?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 8:22 pm (#1435 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Great Aly, apart from the one sentence in OotP, can you tell me exactly how does Ron-Hermione look similar to Arthur-Molly to you? In fact, H/Hr looks more like Arthur/Molly. I think many will agree with me that Hermione does sound like Molly many times. As far as Harry and Arthur are concerned, Arthur is the most similar character in the book to Harry. I don't see any character similarities between Arthur and Ron; but there are many between Arthur and Harry. Besides, we don't see Arthur and Molly bicker at all; the only argument they've had in the series was in PoA; about warning Harry that Black was after him. It looks more like the Life-and-Death arguments Harry and Hermione have rather than silly bickerings Ron and Hermione have.
It might be, but the fact remains, that JKR has specifically stated, that Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends. --Neville Longbottom.
Neville Longbottom; Harry and Hermione are platonic friends. "Are" refers to present tense. Relationships and their natures can change in the future.
---R&R---
Edit: Hey, total hatred, I've been wanting to ask you this for a long time, how old are you?
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Star Crossed - Jul 16, 2004 8:24 pm (#1436 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Never said I thought they were like Arthur and Molly, just said Harry compares them (R/Hr) to them (A/M), which was already posted a few posts back with the exact wording.
And...ew...when I looked at A/M, I thought of Albus and Minerva. Quite disturbing.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 8:32 pm (#1437 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
"Neville Longbottom; Harry and Hermione are platonic friends. "Are" refers to present tense. Relationships and their natures can change in the future.-Tornedo
I've seen this point been used by H/Hr 'shippers several times. I still think it means they are and will always be platonic friends.
And...ew...when I looked at A/M, I thought of Albus and Minerva. Quite disturbing.- Star Crossed
I can see your point... *shudders*
Go R/Hr!
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:00 pm (#1438 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, now, I'd like to make another point why R/Hr won't be poosible. Hermione. She knows what Harry's feelings are going to be more than Harry himself does. Now, in OotP, Ron and Hermione were in GP12 and Harry got one of the reasons why Harry got angry was that they were together and he wasn't with them. He says so in his outburst at GP12 to Ron and Hermione. So, now, Hermione knows that Harry would get angry if she goes out with Ron. He would feel alone and lonely. Now, Hermione wouldn't want that would she? Now, I've written this assuming that Hermione likes Ron which she doesn't.
---R&R---
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 9:05 pm (#1439 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
"So, now, Hermione knows that Harry would get angry if she goes out with Ron. He would feel alone and lonely."- Tornedo
Switch around "Harry" and "Ron" and you'll get the same thing. Hermione wouldn't want Ron feeling like that, would she?
It's one of the reasons why I don't think Harry and Hermione will end up together: Ron.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:13 pm (#1440 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Yeah, but who d'you think Hermione cares about more? Harry or Ron? Who d'you think needs her more? Especially after hearing the prophecy? Harry or Ron. Boy, this is getting tough.
Edit: BTW, nice new Avatar prongs. Pray, please tell me where d'you get those?
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 9:26 pm (#1441 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think she favours any of them. In her opinion, they're both the same. Though, she does get on with Harry a bit better.
After hearing the Prophecy, I do not expect Ron to ditch Harry. He's been his best friend for six years and he has been loyal. Hermione will just be ordinary Hermione, will worry.
PS. Thanks Tornedo! I just search for some HP pictures on the Hogwarts Galleries, centre on the bit of the picture I like, and then give them a designer-y touch! Voila!
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:35 pm (#1442 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Right, well, I guess we are in a bit of a situation here. If Hermione goes out with Ron, Harry gets upset. If she goes out with Harry, Ron gets upset. The only way out seems to be a No-'Ship theory; or having Ron to go out with someone else.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 9:44 pm (#1443 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Do you really think Harry would get upset over Ron and Hermione going out? He knows there's some tension between them. He just didn't like the idea of Ron and Hermione being together at Grimmauld Place, without him knowing anything.
If they tell him at the start of their relationship that they're dating, I think Harry would be okay with it.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:58 pm (#1444 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Yes and No. At this point, I don't think Harry'll be jealous or anything because he hasn't realized His feelings yet; but the point is Hermione wouldn't leave him alone, without either herself or Ron for a minute in HBP. She already has Ron keeping a close eye on Harry in OotP; and I guess one of them is going to follow Hary all over Hogwarts in HBP. That's one of the main problems I see with R/Hr 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 16, 2004 10:31 pm (#1445 of 2916)
"If they tell him at the start of their relationship that they're dating, I think Harry would be okay with it."
If he resigns himself to the fact that he has to be either a murderer or a victim, he might harden his heart enough to be okay with it. Trouble is, if he hardens his heart, Voldemort will probably win (hence, no 'ship for Harry.)
Anyway, I doubt Hermione will give him the chance to harden his heart. Look what she did when Harry shut himself up in Buckbeak's room...
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 10:34 pm (#1446 of 2916)
I think a R/Hr ship would be benifical to the plot, in terms of helping Harry defeat Voldemort. I know you think I'm crazy after reading that, but hear me out. I think Harry's two best friend developing (and acting on) feelings for eachother would help isolate Harry from them (and I mean that in a good way). The prefect thing was the first step. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Harry to be lonely or anything (and Ginny's always there to cheer him up ), but Harry needs to see that the trio isn't really "in this together". Harry is the only one that can defeat Voldemort, and Ron and Hermione can only help him so much.
And...ew...when I looked at A/M, I thought of Albus and Minerva. Quite disturbing. Yes, I see what you mean. There's only a, you know, 80-year difference.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 10:43 pm (#1447 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
S.P.U.G; Harry doesn't need anyone who can cheer him up right now. He has got many people in his life who could do that; Ron, F&G Weasleys, Lupin, Hagrid; no, he needs someone who can understand his feelings well and knows what is good for him. That's why I feel Hermione will end up with Harry. She's the one and the only one who seems to understand his feelings.
By the way; I'll miss messrs Fred and George in HBP.
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 11:30 pm (#1448 of 2916)
Yes, I was just adding the Ginny thing in to show my support for a H/G ship. I didn't really mean that literally. And I don't think Hermione is the only one who understands his feelings. I think she does, but I also think that Luna and Ginny do too. And that doesn't mean that I support a H/L ship either, that's just the way I see it.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 16, 2004 11:34 pm (#1449 of 2916)
Ginny has only started talking to Harry 2 years ago, when she got over her infatuation. Harry only met Luna last year. Hermione has known him for five years.
Ginny and Luna might understand Harry's feelings, but Hermione has known him longer and would understand his feelings better.
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 11:41 pm (#1450 of 2916)
I do agree with you there, to some extent, but I still firmly believe that Harry and Hermione are, and will remain, very platonic friends. Just because you understand someone's feelings, doesn't mean you are/will ever be in love with them.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I like the idea of a Dudley and Millicent relationship. Another interesting possibility would be a relationship between Dudley and Pansy.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 15, 2004 12:31 pm (#1402 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
Dudley and Harry fighting over Pansy. I can't wait to read that part. I would like to see Dudley end up with a witch, just to see how the Dursleys would react, but, considering his up-bringing, I don't think it's likely.
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haymoni - Jul 15, 2004 12:35 pm (#1403 of 2916)
We don't know much about Millicent. Wouldn't it be something if Millicent was the only witch in her family and her brother goes to Smeltings?
Dudley could meet Millicent over the summer.
Where is Smeltings, by the way?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 12:40 pm (#1404 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Yeah, right. The only thing Dudley and Pansy have in common are that they both hate Harry, both are brainless gits and are my least favourite characters. Hey! That's a lot more than what Ron and Hermione have in common... Have I missed anything?
And thus the old debate continues...
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 15, 2004 12:47 pm (#1405 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
Ron and Hermione are both in Gryffindor, they both are friends with Harry, they are two of my favorite characters and they actually know each other. That's four things: you only had three, Tornedo.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 1:07 pm (#1406 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, I could add some more to Dudley/Pansy if you like. They both like to tease people and neither like Ron Weasley. HaHaa, now I've got 5 and you've got 4 nimrod. May be we should do this about H/Hr and R/Hr 'ships. It would be so much fun.
Edit: They've both got the same starting letter for their individual names and surnames. "D" for "Dudley" and "Dursley"; and "P" for "Pansy" and "Parkinson".
D/P=6
R/H=4
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Catherine - Jul 15, 2004 1:19 pm (#1407 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
I hope Marcus comes over to look at this. Knowing him, he'd have a nifty mathematical formula worked out to analzye everything! Sounds like we need a standard checklist :-)
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 15, 2004 1:34 pm (#1408 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
You win, Tornedo. And as a Pansy/anyone-but-Harry 'shipper, I would love to see Pansy with Dudley.
If we did this with H/Hr and R/Hr, I'm sure H/Hr would win. But when we read the books, I think it is obvious that it will be Ron and Hermione.
edit: Catherine, I would imagine that, as we speak, Marcus is plugging every mention of Pansy, Harry, Dudley, Hermione and Ron into his equation, and will have it all sorted out in no time
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Sir Tornado - Jul 15, 2004 1:38 pm (#1409 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Obvious, my foot. Had it been obvious, we wouldn't have had 90% of the posts we have here now. *Yawn* It's getting late must sleep, Chop, Chop, Good Night.
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eifmp - Jul 15, 2004 1:56 pm (#1410 of 2916)
Oh,yeah? Try just try it on our 'shipping thread. Personally, I won't be convinced 'till I read the Epilogue. - Tornedo
It is easy to see Ron and Hermione getting together. Hermione thinks Ron is cute, and even said so in 'OOTP'. Where? When the trio thinks that someone snitched on the Dumbledore Army, Hermione said that it couldn't be possible because that person would be hit with a curse that would make a bad case of acne look like "some cute freckles." We all know Ron has freckles.
Another hidden example. IN 'GOF', when Ron and Harry aren't speaking, Hermione asks Harry to go to Hogsmead with her. Harry replies,"What about Ron, though? Don't you want to go with him?" "Oh...well..." Hermione went slightly pink. "I thought we could meet up with him at the Three Broomsticks."
Also, I type this verbatim from 'GOF'; Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend. So all you H/Hr shippers out there, there is nothing between them.
Also, in 'PS/SS' Hermione introduces herself to Ron and asked Ron who he was, asked him to perform a spell, and even sat next to him, before even knowing what Harry's name was. Wow pretty obvious.
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Padfoot - Jul 15, 2004 2:24 pm (#1411 of 2916)
Also, in 'PS/SS' Hermione introduces herself to Ron and asked Ron who he was, asked him to perform a spell, and even sat next to him, before even knowing what Harry's name was. Wow pretty obvious.
Well I have got to take issue with that. Hermione might have felt more comfortable around Ron when they first met and nervous around Harry (because she was interested in him).
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Potions Mistress - Jul 15, 2004 2:41 pm (#1412 of 2916)
Politicians and diapers need to be changed for the same reason.--Anon.
Nathan Zimmerman, "What about a relationship between Snape and Umbridge. They seem to be suited to each other in terms of personality.
Another intersting and complicated relationship would be one between Snape and Tonks."
I don't know so much about Snape/Umbridge. He's loyal to DD and Umbridge hates him, not to mention that he's a former DE. She'd probably take that horrifible quill of hers to him, and/or get him thrown is Azkaban.
As for Snape/Tonks, you're right, that'd be a VERY complicated relationship, esp. when you consider that Tonks is young enough for Snape to have been her teacher!! :O I kind of wonder how he would handle her klutziness...?
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 15, 2004 2:50 pm (#1413 of 2916)
"Also, I type this verbatim from 'GOF'; Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn't the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend. So all you H/Hr shippers out there, there is nothing between them."
As of their fourth year, there was nothing between Harry and Hermione. But as of their fifth year, there was nothing between James and Lily. And you know how that turned out in the end...
By the end of the fifth book, Harry and Hermione had become quite the comrades-in-arms. Sure, their relationship might not evolve past that, but then again it might.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 15, 2004 3:32 pm (#1414 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Nimrod: If we did this with H/Hr and R/Hr, I'm sure H/Hr would win. But when we read the books, I think it is obvious that it will be Ron and Hermione.
I disagree that Ron and Hermione have few things in common, at least fewer than Harry and Hermione. I'm still not sure why people say this. This was brought up before and I pointed out some characteristics shared between all threee in a previous post (897). They are all three very much alike, actually. I think people just see Ron and Hermione as being such opposites because they are given opposing view points to argue, but these view points really don't impact their overall personalities.
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thetheatre62442 - Jul 15, 2004 6:24 pm (#1415 of 2916)
I've got something for you. There was a recent interview with Daniel, Rupert and Emma that appeared in a UK magazine and when the interviewer asked Rupert what was different about him and Ron... ok well, I can't explain it that good so here is a clip from it:
YP: Have you and Ron changed in the 3rd Potter movie? RG: I'm taller and my voice has broken. Ron changes, there's the Hermione budding romance thing going on. Yeah I relate to Ron because we both have ginger hair, big families, and I'm scared of spiders like him. But I'd like Ron to turn a bit evil, that's be cool. I've always wanted to play an evil person!
I have, of course, always wanted a Ron/Hermione 'ship, and so this interview makes me giddy with joy. Excuse me while I go sing to angels on high...
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Green Eyes - Jul 15, 2004 7:47 pm (#1416 of 2916)
Tornedo...in answer to you question in the earlier post about Dumbledore, he is the counselor to the protagonist...he is also a supporting character kind of like Obi Wan to Luke in Star Wars.
The story of Harry Potter is a very archtypeal story of a Quest - have any of you heard of Joseph Campbell? He taught at Columbia University in NY and had a PBS series dealing with the Hero and the Quest.
Star Wars is a similar story to Harry Potter, just placed in different universes. Harry/Luke Hermione/Leia Ron/Han ObiWan/Dumbledore etc etc. The quest follows the trials of a young person who is searching for the power or knowledge to overcome the obstacle(s) in his/her life. Once the magical power is obtained through the wisdom of a mentor, the hero then uses the power to aid the world from which he comes in some way.
The Quest story has fairy tale and/or mythical elements that we find pervasive in all human story telling/literature.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 15, 2004 7:59 pm (#1417 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Joseph Campbell of Hero with a Thousand Faces fame? Of course I have heard of him. Brilliant. There is a Potter guide-book that applies Campbell's theories to the books. It is a good read. He tends to ignore the works that do not match his theories, though. It is a weakness of his, but he is generally decent.
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total hatred - Jul 15, 2004 8:02 pm (#1418 of 2916)
It was never stated that it was a two way romance. It may be a one way romance. His inclination that Ron will be evil will strengthen the fact the Harry and Hermione will be together. What will be the logical explaination why Ron will be evil? The leading possible reason will likely be jelousy. Next will be he will stupid enough to follow Percy.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 15, 2004 8:17 pm (#1419 of 2916)
I found a brilliant essay called "Love Foretold in Runes and in the Heavens" at portkey.org
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This really answers the *why* question for me. Why would JKR put Harry with Hermione when he's not shown any romantic interest in her so far?
H/H is the exact opposite of H/C. Harry's first *feelings* for Cho is physical attraction. Once he starts getting to know her, he realizes that she's really not for him, and just gets over her.
With Hermione, they have built a friendship with faith, trust and a growing closeness and partnership. The last piece will be what the first piece was with Cho, physical attraction. I think this will take Harry by surprise, but he will accept it quite easily. Like the essay says, the love he will have with Hermione is the love he's going to need to fight Big V.
It's quite late, so this isn't worded quite to my liking. I'll add more later.
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total hatred - Jul 15, 2004 8:37 pm (#1420 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 16, 2004 1:39 am
That piece is so good. It really reinforce the H/Hr ship. I believe that the only reason why Luna is here is to provide comfort for Harry if the H/Hr will prosper and serve as catalyst for the ship.
As you can know, Luna is getting closer to Harry and that closeness can be misinterpreted by Hermione as chasing Harry. As a result Hermione will try harder to help Harry, risk her life if she have too and admit to herself that she is really in love with her best friend.
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drippan - Jul 15, 2004 8:47 pm (#1421 of 2916)
I'm so confused!!
H/Hr, R/Hr, D/Hr, N/Hr, Dudley/Hr.......
Feels slightly dizzy...
H/Ginny, H/Pansy, H/Cho, H/Luna, H/Susan.......
Feels queesy.....
R/Hr, R/Luna, R/Pansy, R/Susan.......
Someone please call St Mungo's and have them bring the padded broom for me.....
DripPan
BTW, great arguments on the 'shipping front. Before I entered the forum I thought R/Hr. Now, I'm off to stay with the Longbottoms for a while....
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total hatred - Jul 15, 2004 9:09 pm (#1422 of 2916)
Say hello to Lockheart for me
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 12:50 am (#1423 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Mind the Devil's Snare DripPan. We don't want a Marine to be strangled now do we? Another Essay? Oh, I just love HP essays. I'll give my reactions later Coolbeans.
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haymoni - Jul 16, 2004 5:55 am (#1424 of 2916)
Just because Rupert would like Ron to become evil, doesn't mean JKR wants him to.
Actors LOVE to play the bad guy - they get all the best lines.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 7:05 am (#1425 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I just read the essay that coolbeans3131 provided, and I have to say, that it was quite well written. Not like other essays backing the H/Hr 'ship.
I'll need to think.
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Neville Longbottom - Jul 16, 2004 9:55 am (#1426 of 2916)
It might be, but the fact remains, that JKR has specifically stated, that Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends, and that confirms IMO that they are just that. JKR never lied to us, if it concerns stuff that's happening in the future books. Of course everybody can ship whatever they want, but because of this statement I think Harry and Hermione are as likely to become an an item as Grawp and Winky.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 10:14 am (#1427 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Dang! There goes my whole giant/house-elf theory!
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KWeldon - Jul 16, 2004 11:25 am (#1428 of 2916)
Coolbeans,
Thank you for providing that link. Although I am not in favor of a H/Hr ship for reasons I can't really put my finger on, that was the best argument I've seen so far for it being JKR's intentions, and it's left me at a loss for words.
Except...The problem I have with this storyline is that it means that Ron will eventually be incredibly hurt by this, and I have a hard time believing that JKR intended the series to culminate in a true love triangle. Was this really what we've been hooked into anticipating? How disappointing, if it's true.
KWeldon
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 11:49 am (#1429 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't want a love triangle between the Trio. Harry is going to need his friends around him in HbP.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 12:14 pm (#1430 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Wow, great essay, I'm back to Harry/Hermione 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 16, 2004 12:58 pm (#1431 of 2916)
Didn't JKR imply that Ron would die?
Of course, there's a strong possibility that Harry might die, too.
If one of them dies, I think Hermione will go out with the other. If both die... Krum, perhaps...
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Weeny Owl - Jul 16, 2004 1:11 pm (#1432 of 2916)
From an interview, JKR said, "It's great to hear feedback from the kids. Mostly they are really worried about Ron. As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend."
I think the trio will survive and Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny will all be part of the Weasley family.
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Czarina II - Jul 16, 2004 3:26 pm (#1433 of 2916)
Seems to me that most of the R/Hr shippers have been staying away lately, because I seem to count a lot more H/Hr people than before. I'm not convinced by that essay, though it was well-written. I haven't been convinced by any essay so far. Until I hear/read it from JKR otherwise, I still stick with Ron and Hermione.
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Star Crossed - Jul 16, 2004 7:14 pm (#1434 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Someone send me a daily IM on either AIM or MSN, telling me to never, ever leave the computer. I come back. 50 new messages on this board alone! So very proud.
Alas, you scurvy H/Hrs. Back, back I say!
Personally, I think H/Hr would ruin what JKR is slowly building up. Harry is being less dependant on Ron and Hermione. He's realising he's the one. Ron and Hermione can only help him so far. There are more and more situations where Ron and Hermione are alone. Am I saying they're snogging away? No, but they're being seperated from Harry. Harry cannot fall upon either of them anymore. If all of a sudden, Harry thinks 'Oh, I need Hermione, but not Ron.' because he apparently loves her, that would ruin the set-up that JKR is showing. He would completely disown Ron because, as oh so many people are saying, he is only a comic relief. He needs both of them (Have I not already mentioned the ying and yang and yong?), not just one. There needs to be a balance. It's possible a relationship between any two of the three could damage this balance, but right now, Harry. Doesn't. Care. He believes Hermione got the point of how Ron feels more than Ron does. He compares them to Arthur and Molly, whom are the only parents he really knows, and whom he really likes. There is so much evidence pointing towards Ron/Hermione, but if we all agreed to it, what would be the point of this discussion?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 8:22 pm (#1435 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Great Aly, apart from the one sentence in OotP, can you tell me exactly how does Ron-Hermione look similar to Arthur-Molly to you? In fact, H/Hr looks more like Arthur/Molly. I think many will agree with me that Hermione does sound like Molly many times. As far as Harry and Arthur are concerned, Arthur is the most similar character in the book to Harry. I don't see any character similarities between Arthur and Ron; but there are many between Arthur and Harry. Besides, we don't see Arthur and Molly bicker at all; the only argument they've had in the series was in PoA; about warning Harry that Black was after him. It looks more like the Life-and-Death arguments Harry and Hermione have rather than silly bickerings Ron and Hermione have.
It might be, but the fact remains, that JKR has specifically stated, that Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends. --Neville Longbottom.
Neville Longbottom; Harry and Hermione are platonic friends. "Are" refers to present tense. Relationships and their natures can change in the future.
---R&R---
Edit: Hey, total hatred, I've been wanting to ask you this for a long time, how old are you?
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Star Crossed - Jul 16, 2004 8:24 pm (#1436 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Never said I thought they were like Arthur and Molly, just said Harry compares them (R/Hr) to them (A/M), which was already posted a few posts back with the exact wording.
And...ew...when I looked at A/M, I thought of Albus and Minerva. Quite disturbing.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 8:32 pm (#1437 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
"Neville Longbottom; Harry and Hermione are platonic friends. "Are" refers to present tense. Relationships and their natures can change in the future.-Tornedo
I've seen this point been used by H/Hr 'shippers several times. I still think it means they are and will always be platonic friends.
And...ew...when I looked at A/M, I thought of Albus and Minerva. Quite disturbing.- Star Crossed
I can see your point... *shudders*
Go R/Hr!
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:00 pm (#1438 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, now, I'd like to make another point why R/Hr won't be poosible. Hermione. She knows what Harry's feelings are going to be more than Harry himself does. Now, in OotP, Ron and Hermione were in GP12 and Harry got one of the reasons why Harry got angry was that they were together and he wasn't with them. He says so in his outburst at GP12 to Ron and Hermione. So, now, Hermione knows that Harry would get angry if she goes out with Ron. He would feel alone and lonely. Now, Hermione wouldn't want that would she? Now, I've written this assuming that Hermione likes Ron which she doesn't.
---R&R---
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 9:05 pm (#1439 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
"So, now, Hermione knows that Harry would get angry if she goes out with Ron. He would feel alone and lonely."- Tornedo
Switch around "Harry" and "Ron" and you'll get the same thing. Hermione wouldn't want Ron feeling like that, would she?
It's one of the reasons why I don't think Harry and Hermione will end up together: Ron.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:13 pm (#1440 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Yeah, but who d'you think Hermione cares about more? Harry or Ron? Who d'you think needs her more? Especially after hearing the prophecy? Harry or Ron. Boy, this is getting tough.
Edit: BTW, nice new Avatar prongs. Pray, please tell me where d'you get those?
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 9:26 pm (#1441 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think she favours any of them. In her opinion, they're both the same. Though, she does get on with Harry a bit better.
After hearing the Prophecy, I do not expect Ron to ditch Harry. He's been his best friend for six years and he has been loyal. Hermione will just be ordinary Hermione, will worry.
PS. Thanks Tornedo! I just search for some HP pictures on the Hogwarts Galleries, centre on the bit of the picture I like, and then give them a designer-y touch! Voila!
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:35 pm (#1442 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Right, well, I guess we are in a bit of a situation here. If Hermione goes out with Ron, Harry gets upset. If she goes out with Harry, Ron gets upset. The only way out seems to be a No-'Ship theory; or having Ron to go out with someone else.
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Chris. - Jul 16, 2004 9:44 pm (#1443 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Do you really think Harry would get upset over Ron and Hermione going out? He knows there's some tension between them. He just didn't like the idea of Ron and Hermione being together at Grimmauld Place, without him knowing anything.
If they tell him at the start of their relationship that they're dating, I think Harry would be okay with it.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 9:58 pm (#1444 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Yes and No. At this point, I don't think Harry'll be jealous or anything because he hasn't realized His feelings yet; but the point is Hermione wouldn't leave him alone, without either herself or Ron for a minute in HBP. She already has Ron keeping a close eye on Harry in OotP; and I guess one of them is going to follow Hary all over Hogwarts in HBP. That's one of the main problems I see with R/Hr 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 16, 2004 10:31 pm (#1445 of 2916)
"If they tell him at the start of their relationship that they're dating, I think Harry would be okay with it."
If he resigns himself to the fact that he has to be either a murderer or a victim, he might harden his heart enough to be okay with it. Trouble is, if he hardens his heart, Voldemort will probably win (hence, no 'ship for Harry.)
Anyway, I doubt Hermione will give him the chance to harden his heart. Look what she did when Harry shut himself up in Buckbeak's room...
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 10:34 pm (#1446 of 2916)
I think a R/Hr ship would be benifical to the plot, in terms of helping Harry defeat Voldemort. I know you think I'm crazy after reading that, but hear me out
. I think Harry's two best friend developing (and acting on) feelings for eachother would help isolate Harry from them (and I mean that in a good way). The prefect thing was the first step. Don't get me wrong, I don't want Harry to be lonely or anything (and Ginny's always there to cheer him up ), but Harry needs to see that the trio isn't really "in this together". Harry is the only one that can defeat Voldemort, and Ron and Hermione can only help him so much. And...ew...when I looked at A/M, I thought of Albus and Minerva. Quite disturbing. Yes, I see what you mean. There's only a, you know, 80-year difference.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 16, 2004 10:43 pm (#1447 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
S.P.U.G; Harry doesn't need anyone who can cheer him up right now. He has got many people in his life who could do that; Ron, F&G Weasleys, Lupin, Hagrid; no, he needs someone who can understand his feelings well and knows what is good for him. That's why I feel Hermione will end up with Harry. She's the one and the only one who seems to understand his feelings.
By the way; I'll miss messrs Fred and George in HBP.
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 11:30 pm (#1448 of 2916)
Yes, I was just adding the Ginny thing in to show my support for a H/G ship. I didn't really mean that literally. And I don't think Hermione is the only one who understands his feelings. I think she does, but I also think that Luna and Ginny do too. And that doesn't mean that I support a H/L ship either, that's just the way I see it.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 16, 2004 11:34 pm (#1449 of 2916)
Ginny has only started talking to Harry 2 years ago, when she got over her infatuation. Harry only met Luna last year. Hermione has known him for five years.
Ginny and Luna might understand Harry's feelings, but Hermione has known him longer and would understand his feelings better.
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spug - Jul 16, 2004 11:41 pm (#1450 of 2916)
I do agree with you there, to some extent, but I still firmly believe that Harry and Hermione are, and will remain, very platonic friends. Just because you understand someone's feelings, doesn't mean you are/will ever be in love with them.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 4:39 am (#1451 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, it's this way; either there'll be a H/Hr 'ship, or there will be no ship containing either Harry or Hermione. It's preety obvious that Hermione is and will always be the most important girl in Harry's life. And any of his girlfriends aren't going to like that. Same for Hermione. In one of the later books, I can almost see her braking a date because either Harry gets hurt or is in some trouble.
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Star Crossed - Jul 17, 2004 7:16 am (#1452 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, they'll either be a H/Hr ship, no ship containing Harry or Hermione, or there will be a R/Hr ship. R/Hr is out there. Just because not everyone agrees to it, that does not mean it won't happen. Not everyone agrees to H/Hr either.
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Eponine - Jul 17, 2004 7:47 am (#1453 of 2916)
Hello, all. I've never joined this discussion, but I've certainly followed it with interest. I am personally a R/Hr and a H/G shipper. In response to Tornedo about none of Harry's girlfriends understanding his relationship with Hermione, I think that either Ginny or Luna could understand. Ginny especially because she may have been quite shy around him, but she has not been shy around Hermione. They have been thrown together as the only girls several times over the years. I think she understands the depth of their friendship. I'm not saying H/Hr couldn't happen, I just don't think it's likely.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 11:22 am (#1454 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Eponine; Ginny doesn't seem to care a lot about Harry. There are many instances where it is noticed. e.g. In CoS, after Harry rescues Ginny; Ginny doesn't even ask Harry if he was alright; and there was blood on his robes. She's more worried about she herself being expelled. Now look at Hermione when she was 11. She actually came with Harry and Ron through the trap-door.Well, that reduces Ginny's chances a bit. Ginny; I've noticed in OotP, gets angry at Harry far more easily than Hermione does. At some point, she yells at him(not in capitals). Harry has been yelled at at the Dursleys for 10 years and must hate it. Now, that reduces Ginny's chances even more.
Do you want me to give you more instances from the books which will reduce Ginny's chances even more?
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 12:00 pm (#1455 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
There are many instances where it is noticed. e.g. In CoS, after Harry rescues Ginny; Ginny doesn't even ask Harry if he was alright; and there was blood on his robes. She's more worried about she herself being expelled.- Tornedo.
I can see that most of your points are from the essay given by coolbeans some posts earlier. Ginny was only eleven. She was frantic and rather than asking if everyone else is okay, she went mad and just wanted to see her family and sleep, I think. Just because she didn't ask Harry if he was okay doesn't mean she didn't care.
Ginny was angry at Harry. She knows how to get Harry to think straight. He did stop shouting after Ginny set him straight about him not being the only one to have been posessed by Voldemort.
And could I see these "chance-threatening" moments of Ginny's please?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 12:19 pm (#1456 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Sure Prongs, Well, Ginny appears to be a normal girl; nothing extra-ordinary. Harry needs someone exceptionally brilliant girl like Hermione.
Want more? I've got loads, stored since CoS. 'tis the first time I'm actually telling this to someone.
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Courtney22 - Jul 17, 2004 12:21 pm (#1457 of 2916)
I just thought I'd throw this out there, as I have not taken sides on the whole HR/R, H/HR issue, but who did Krum see as the biggest threat? Harry. Now I know many will say that he saw Harry as a threat because of Rita's articles but that wasn't his only reason.
"Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often" p.552 American paperback ed.
Krum sees Harry as a threat not Ron.... just some food for thought.
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haymoni - Jul 17, 2004 12:23 pm (#1458 of 2916)
Harry needs a break. He needs a fling. He won't have a serious girlfriend - she'd be a target for Voldy.
He'd never endanger Ginny.
Hermione already knows Harry is a lightning rod and you can't tell me she hasn't put 2 & 2 together to figure out that Harry has to face Voldy - even Ron could see it.
I could see a pack of girls following Harry around like they did Krum.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 12:31 pm (#1459 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
"Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often" p.552 American paperback ed.
Krum sees Harry as a threat not Ron.... just some food for thought. --Courtney22
Good point Courtney. I should say that I have come accross that argument before and had devised a counter-argument.(Back in those days I was a Victor/Hermione 'shipper.) But hey! I'm not gonna tell it. Let R/Hr 'shippers do some defending for a change.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 12:33 pm (#1460 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Sure Prongs, Well, Ginny appears to be a normal girl; nothing extra-ordinary. Harry needs someone exceptionally brilliant girl like Hermione.- Tornedo.
Oh, I really disagree with that point. Harry doesn't need some "exceptionally brilliant girl". Harry needs a normal girl, who he can relax with and not have to worry about the war with. Harry doesn't want more attention, having Hermione as a girlfriend would make more.
And people usually make threats of people who are in the same league. Krum and Harry are both famous, sometimes surrounded by girls, good at Quidditch and are both Triwizard competitors. None of which point to Ron before OP.
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tracie1976 - Jul 17, 2004 12:46 pm (#1461 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Ginny doesn't seem to care a lot about Harry. There are many instances where it is noticed. e.g. In CoS, after Harry rescues Ginny; Ginny doesn't even ask Harry if he was alright; and there was blood on his robes. She's more worried about she herself being expelled.
Wouldn't you want to ask your crush if he was all right or not? Try to get him to think that you cared about him? Ginny was only worried about herself. She didn't seem to think at what happened to Harry to save her.
Harry doesn't need some "exceptionally brilliant girl". Harry needs a normal girl, who he can relax with and not have to worry about the war with. Harry doesn't want more attention, having Hermione as a girlfriend would make more
How? There is a war that Harry cannot forget. He's always going to have that on his mind. He's got to figure out how he can measure up to Voldemort or he ends up dying. Hermione is always there to push him to achieve his best and help him along with whatever challenges he faces. After Harry kills Voldemort (hopefully) he can then relax along side of Hermione.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 12:47 pm (#1462 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, here's another anti- H/G argument. Ginny can't make Harry feel he's wanted when he's isolated from others. Remember the Hospital incident? About Voldemort possessing Harry? Well, Ginny had a whole day to get Harry to talk about it; but couldn't. Hermione came; she saw and she made Harry talk in 10 minutes.
Now, doesn't that hurt the chances of H/G argument? If not, just tell me, I'll post some more. By the way Prongs, you got the counter-argument to Victor-Harry talk wrong. Actually it's a bit different.
Ponder Ponder by the Pond.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 12:51 pm (#1463 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hermione is always there to push him to achieve his best- Tracie1976
Exactly. She's always there. Yes, Harry will have to work hard if he has any chance of defeating Voldemort but he has to take breaks with Quidditch and other things. Hermione doesn't understand that, as she would rather read a book, or do homework rather than being athletic.
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The Artful Dodger - Jul 17, 2004 12:57 pm (#1464 of 2916)
My strongest argument against a H/Hr 'ship is that Hermione herself shows rather few interest in that. After all, she gives Harry advice how to handle his relationship with Cho, and she wouldn't do that if she wanted to go out with Harry, would she? (Please note that this doesn't make me a R/Hr shipper, I'm really torn in all those shipping things)
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 1:15 pm (#1465 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Artfull, who are Arsenal playing against in your Avatar? Is that Denis Berkamp shooting?
I believe Hermione gave Harry advice on how girls behave because she wanted him to understand her own feelings. IMHO, Hermione is dropping hints to Harry.
Hermione doesn't understand that, as she would rather read a book, or do homework rather than being athletic.
That counts in H/Hr favour. You know how Hermione is indiffeent about Quidditch. But she still goes to every Gryffindor match. Why? For Harry.
And people usually make threats of people who are in the same league. Krum and Harry are both famous, sometimes surrounded by girls, good at Quidditch and are both Triwizard competitors. None of which point to Ron before OP. --Prongs.
I'm sorry Prongs but that cannot be a counter-Argument for Krum-talked-to-Harry argument. The thing is, Krum knows Hermione wasn't overrawed by seeing him in the library. He is certainly bright enough to conclude that she wasn't overrawed by Harry just because he was good at quiddich or because he was famous. BTW, Harry is never surrounded by girls. So, why does Krum talk to Harry? In fact even Cho gets jealous at Hermione. Why? Because romantic prospects of Harry and Hermione feel there is Chemistry between Harry and Hermione and feel threatened.
Answer that.
By the way Tracie, what is the new Avatar exactly? Artful Dodger, come on, gather your thoughts. Don't be torn down. If you still are, get up and say: I'll follow the Tornedo; I'll follow the Tornedo. Confused? So am I.
P.S. First time I've seen R/Hr been outnumbered on this forum.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 1:23 pm (#1466 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
That counts in H/Hr favour. You know how Hermione is indiffeent about Quidditch. But she still goes to every Gryffindor match. Why? For Harry.- Tornedo
Yes, she goes for Harry, and in OP Ron too. Hermione could just be supporting Gryffindor. She goes to the Quidditch because she's Harry's best friend. It doesn't point to anything else.
Because romantic prospects of Harry and Hermione feel there is Chemistry between Harry and Hermione and feel threatened.- Tornedo, again!
Depends what you mean by chemistry. Yes, there's a connection between them but nothing romantic has ever been hinted at each other between themselves.
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The One - Jul 17, 2004 1:25 pm (#1467 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Actually, Hermione do not like the Harry/Cho relationship at all, she just try to hide it. Her attitude when she interrogates Harry about the big kiss is rather strange, brisk, vague, absentminded, asking rather personal questions, and the ducking into her letter.
There are a number of indications of Hermione having feelings for Harry, she is probably suppressing them as he apparently does not return the feelings, and she does not want to risk their friendship. I expect Harry's feelings to change soon, no that Cho is out of the picture.
And I agree with Tornedo, the story is developing into Harry and Hermione together facing all the problems ahead as partners, and I see no room in the story for a girl friend for Harry that is not Hermione, nor for a boy friend for Hermione that is not Harry.
And to me, Harry/Hermione is a far better match than Ron/Hermione, the way I read their personalities.
But that is just my opinion.
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The Artful Dodger - Jul 17, 2004 1:35 pm (#1468 of 2916)
Tornedo, in my avatar Dennis Bergkamp is just about to score a marvellous goal against Middlesbrough (it's taken from the Arsenal Centurions DVD - 100 goals by Dennis Bergkamp and Thierry Henry, always worth a watch, even for those who don't support Arsenal). Back to shipping - I believe in R/Hr, but I'm really not sure (as it says in the song: "Que sera, sera, whatever will be, wil be, the future's not our's to see"...).
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Star Crossed - Jul 17, 2004 1:35 pm (#1469 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hermione doesn't understand that, as she would rather read a book, or do homework rather than being athletic.
That counts in H/Hr favour. You know how Hermione is indiffeent about Quidditch. But she still goes to every Gryffindor match. Why? For Harry.
They are friends. I'm going to be on the rifles team this year. My friend hates football (As do I), but she's still going to the games to cheer me on. Does that mean she fancies me? Highly doubtful. And Hermione has not been to every game. She missed one in Chamber of Secrets to find out about the basilisk.
I'm sorry Prongs but that cannot be a counter-Argument for Krum-talked-to-Harry argument. The thing is, Krum knows Hermione wasn't overrawed by seeing him in the library. He is certainly bright enough to conclude that she wasn't overrawed by Harry just because he was good at quiddich or because he was famous. BTW, Harry is never surrounded by girls. So, why does Krum talk to Harry? In fact even Cho gets jealous at Hermione. Why? Because romantic prospects of Harry and Hermione feel there is Chemistry between Harry and Hermione and feel threatened.
Krum doesn't know that? Krum didn't seem to know Hermione very well. He pretty much stalked her to get her to go to the Yule Ball with him. Did she appreciate that? No. Afterwards she was happy, but only because she got a date. He pulled her aside to talk about her visiting him over the summer, when all she wanted to do was to see if Ron and Harry were okay. That annoyed her. Plus, the Krum talking to Harry was a plot advancement. The two had to talk in secret by the forest, so Crouch Jr and Crouch Sr could arrive.
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 1:41 pm (#1470 of 2916)
I believed that Hermione has feelings for Harry but she only suppressed it. I also believed that Hermione was jealous whenever Harry have some relationship with the girls.
There is some subtle indications that she fancies Harry. Notice her reaction when she heard that Cho and Harry kiss. Do you wonder why Hermione set up the interview after Harry's date. I believed that she is doing it to break the ship between Harry and Cho. Not overtly of course.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 1:47 pm (#1471 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I believed that she is doing it to break the ship between Harry and Cho. Not overtly of course.- total hatred.
If Hermione did do this, I do not see Harry going out with her, let alone thinking about it. If Hermione did do it, she caused Harry a whole lot more grief.
And Tornedo's question about Tracie's avatar, I think it says "Harry + Hermione LOVE!!!
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 2:12 pm (#1472 of 2916)
That why I said covertly. She doing it in a subtle manner. She must have studied some psychology. She is using psychological warfare and from the looks of it she is sucessful.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 2:20 pm (#1473 of 2916)
I don't really care about the romantic subplots, but I would like to point out my interpretation of something on JKR's site about this:
Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
She responds with something along the lines of "I won't tell you, but I can't believe none of you have figured this out yet." To me, this says that Hermione loves neither. Most people (I think) think it's going to be Ron/Hermione, and there are many who think Hermione/Harry, so someone has worked that out.
Just my 2 cents/sickles/whatever the British cent is.
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KWeldon - Jul 17, 2004 3:11 pm (#1474 of 2916)
To me JKR's disbelief that we haven't figured it all out yet is because the R/H ship is the ONLY one with overt clues to it: their respective jealousies of Krum and Fluer; their bickering; Hermione's comment about Ron being worse than Harry when it came to girls, etc.
Furthermore, why would JKR allow the movie producers to emphasize their relationship earlier and stronger in the series if it were not going to follow the books?
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 3:32 pm (#1475 of 2916)
What overt clues? In fact in my opinion, R/Hr ship are getting weaker by every passing book. I never have seen argument supporting the R/Hr ship that H/Hr shipper can't rebute. Your strength can be your weakness
By the way Tornedo in response to your question about my age, I am just as old as Harry Potter, technically.
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 17, 2004 3:32 pm (#1476 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
Furthermore, why would JKR allow the movie producers to emphasize their relationship earlier and stronger in the series if it were not going to follow the books?
Well, we all know how much she loves red herrings...Still, I'm more of a Harry/Luna fan. *grins absently*
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 3:40 pm (#1477 of 2916)
Yes, if I had to have an opinion on which relationship would be best for the story, I'd definately say Harry/Luna. I doubt it'll happen, though.
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 3:51 pm (#1478 of 2916)
I believe Mrs Rowling subtlely emphasizing H/Hr ship. Ron is getting useless as the books progresses and in the Order of the Phoenix, his use was much like for comic relief
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 17, 2004 3:56 pm (#1479 of 2916)
"Furthermore, why would JKR allow the movie producers to emphasize their relationship earlier and stronger in the series if it were not going to follow the books?"
Why would JKR allow the movie producers to let Hermione say 'Voldemort' in the first movie, when she made it quite clear that Hermione had never said the name until the fifth book?
Sorry, but the movies are not infallible.
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 4:03 pm (#1480 of 2916)
Harry/Luna. I am some of supporter of that ship. I believe if Hermione will no go to Harry, Harry will take Luna. I can see chemistry between Harry and Mione and same can said with Harry and Luna but in a diffirent mix
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 17, 2004 4:15 pm (#1481 of 2916)
"I won't tell you, but I can't believe none of you have figured this out yet."
I think what we can read into this is precisely nothing. There is no information in this statement at all. No matter which ship you ship (or if you think there are no ships) you can see hope in this statement. I don't believe it strengthens or weakens any ship.
As for Ginny, it bothers me that she's never given Harry a proper or heartfelt thank-you for what he did for her. It also bothers me that she's never seemed to feel guilty for what she (unwillingly) did in CoS. It's because she is a very undeveloped character, which is why I think she has no chance of being with or for Harry.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 4:24 pm (#1482 of 2916)
Ginny is very shy, which is why she didn't originally thank Harry. By the time she doesn't have a crush on him anymore - or at least will talk around him - it's been three years.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 4:35 pm (#1483 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
But is Harry the sort of person who needs a "thank you" or a "well done"?
I don't think he is. I think Ginny has been thankful everynight since the incident, to Harry and everyone else.
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Green Eyes - Jul 17, 2004 5:33 pm (#1484 of 2916)
I'm still incredulous over those who still think H/Hr is a possibility. JKR has basically answered that question by actually saying that Harry and Hermione are friends - on more than one interview/chat. If she was trying to throw anyone off she wouldn't have said those things. When she doesn't want to let on what's going to happen with any situation/character in her books she avoids a direct answer. The fact that the movie producers have put in R/Hr evidence ( and Steve Kloves and JKR actually talked about it in the COS interview) seals the deal IMHO.
As for H/G...while I think this IS going to happen...I think there is still room for argument over this as Harry and Ginny have just begun to interact so we have to wait and see.
Tornedo...when Harry locks himself in the attic after hearing everyone talk about him at ST. Mungo's, Hermione shows up unexpectedly and he comes out of the attic because he isn't ashamed in front of her...she WASN'T at the hospital. He is also surprised because he thought she was skiing with her parents. When he realizes she lured him into his bedroom and Ginny and Ron are there, he immediately clams up in front of all of them. Hermione only manages to get him out of the attic. It's Ginny who has the courage (and the experience of possession) to get in his face and confront him about his behavior. It's only after the exchange with her that he feels better.
As for Ron becoming useless as the books go on...I think don't think this is true, but I do believe Ron and Hermione's relationship with Harry is changing. That started in GOF. Ron no longer sides with Harry against Hermione when she is trying to convince Harry of something. He tends to feel it is up to Harry to make a decision for himself. This can indicate two things...one, Ron is realizing Harry is getting older and can make his own decisions, or...two, he doesn't want to go against Hermione but at the same time doesn't want to alienate Harry either. This suggests a closer relationship between Ron and Hermione than we/Harry have been privvy to thus far.
As for Harry's relationship with Hermione, he chafes at her constant admonitions and tends to avoid her advice/company at times. I saw Harry has impatient and intolerant of Hermione in OOTP, but there is evidence of this chafing in all the books. He keeps things from both of this best friends because he doesn't want to deal with their reactions.
Both Ron and Hermione are not sure what to do with Harry in book 5, they are unable at times to manage his anger. They tend to patronize him when he is angry and this makes him more angry.
When they go to the ministry at the end of OOTP, Harry doesn't want Luna/Neville and Ginny to go because he doesn't see them as capable. In reality it is Ron and Hermione who are out of the fight before the others showing that Harry may be needing to rely on others as well in the future.
As for JKR saying she can't believe we haven't figured it out yet...well I know exactly how she feels! It seems quite obvious to me. But I guess it's human nature that people will believe what they want to because they want to. This forum wouldn't exist otherwise!
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Eponine - Jul 17, 2004 6:58 pm (#1485 of 2916)
Okay, I was just looking through some of the articles on the lexicon from the Quick Quotes section which lists a lot of the interviews JKR has done over the years. This is a quote from the Sunday Gazette-Mail on 14 November 1999
- On whether Harry and his friend Hermione will have a date when they get older: "No, but I won't answer for anyone else - nudge, nudge, wink, wink."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think that might be a link, but as I am not sure how to make them, I'm not quite certain it will be.
Edit: Although, I suppose you could argue that people can fall in love without actually dating (I know a couple who never dated, and then one day out of the blue got engaged) I don't think H/H will be ending up together.
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Ladybug220 - Jul 17, 2004 8:34 pm (#1486 of 2916)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Excellent Green Eyes!! and you too Eponine! Tornedo with as much evidence as you have produced, I still don't see Harry and Hermione as a couple - I see it all as friendship. And as much as I would like Harry to end up with Ginny, time will only tell.
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The One - Jul 18, 2004 3:41 am (#1487 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I'm still incredulous over those who still think JKR's answers is to be taken seriously. Lots and lots of people see signs of H/Hr comming, and see signs of R/Hr as being a red Herring. This does not mean that it is so, because lots of lots of people have seen R/Hr mcomming. What it does mean though, is that either one of the camps consists of people that are stupid, reading into the books things that are simply not there, or JKR have deliberately made the books ambigous. And if the latter is the case, why would she reveal the information in interwees? That simply does not make sense. And as I highly doubt that half of the fandom are stupid, I am very open for the possibility that JKR is bluffing.
"It seems quite obvious to me. But I guess it's human nature that people will believe what they want to because they want to."
Green Eyes, I assume you realize that this sentence may also apply to yourself and your shipmates?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 4:26 am (#1488 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Green Eyes; welcome back. I bet you got about a 100 new posts on this thread.
Ladybug; so, my anti-H/G evidence wasn't good enough was it? Ok, no problem, here's more.
Ginny just won't be able to stay with Harry after she comes to know the prophesy as his girlfriend. I don't doubt her loyalty to Harry just as a friend; but as I girlfriend? No way. Just consider this, why did she leave Corner? Because he sulked after losing the quidditch match. Well, now I don't approve sulking, but, well, even I sulk among some of my friends if Liverpool lose to Manchester United. (I support Liverpool; while they support ManU) But, it's all right really, we don't break our friendship just because of that. Now as far as Ginny goes, if she brke up with Corner just because he sulked; what's the betting she'll break up as Harry's girlfriend after she comes to know the Prophecy?
Answer that!
Paulus; I think we should keep the movies out of this.
Welcome the One. I hope that atleast you'll be "the One" to convince R/Hr 'shippers here.
I repeat, to all those who need to whom it is needed: H/Hr are friends. Relationships and their natures can change in the future.
By the way; Total Hatred; when you said you were "technically as old as Harry was, did you mean 16 or did you mean 24?
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The One - Jul 18, 2004 4:50 am (#1489 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
"Welcome the One. I hope that at least you'll be "the One" to convince R/Hr 'shippers here."
Thank you, but why convince them? Much more fun just to provoke them enough to enable us to shout "We told you so!" when the next book arrives! (Or go into hiding if we are mistaken, but I very much doubt that will happen.)
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drippan - Jul 18, 2004 5:28 am (#1490 of 2916)
I found a piece of parchment and quill here at St Mungo's psycho ward and had to respond. This is not, I REPEAT, NOT my feelings towards any 'ships but just answering a question....
Tornedo, "Now as far as Ginny goes, if she brke up with Corner just because he sulked; what's the betting she'll break up as Harry's girlfriend after she comes to know the Prophecy?"
That was just maybe one of the reasons. When I read it, I took it as her and Corner didn't really have enough in common but the straw that broke the camels back was the sulking.
Little things come up in a relationship and if you have too many of these, the 'ship ends. The one thing that you recall why the 'ship ended is usually the last thing that happened. In this case, Ravenclaw losing to Gryffindor and Corner sulking.
I wonder what Corner would say if we asked him why the relationship ended.......probably something totally different than what Ginny said.
Now, where is that Jello cart.......
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 11:52 am (#1491 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Drippy, Ha HA HAAA I was waiting and waiting for someone to come with this argument and mess themselves up. In fact you have done much better by actually giving me quotes and you've just shot yourself in your own foot. You've destroyed R/Hr 'ship.
That was just maybe one of the reasons. When I read it, I took it as her and Corner didn't really have enough in common but the straw that broke the camels back was the sulking. --DripPan.
Hmm, Ginny/Corner nothing much in common. Last straw that broke camels back? Sounds like R/Hr and some argument they'll have.
Little things come up in a relationship and if you have too many of these, the 'ship ends. The one thing that you recall why the 'ship ended is usually the last thing that happened. In this case, Ravenclaw losing to Gryffindor and Corner sulking. --DripPan
Ron and Hermione have many silly arguments. According to your own argument, many of these will break the 'ship. R/Hr may have many required to break the 'ship. You recall the last thing that happened when you think why the 'ship ended? Well, in R/Hr 'ship, it'll be something to do with Harry.
Well, I'm a bit disappointed. Only one person fell for my trap. I'll designate this due to the fact that my last post wasn't on right time.
Anyway, Thanks for writing from St. Mungos DripPan. Say Hullo to Longbottoms. Oh, yes, bring some gum wrappers from them; I collect gum wrappers. Once again, THANKS.
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drippan - Jul 18, 2004 5:24 pm (#1492 of 2916)
Tornedo, " Ron and Hermione have many silly arguments. According to your own argument, many of these will break the 'ship. R/Hr may have many required to break the 'ship."
OMG, time for me to divorce my wife!!! We argue sometimes too and mostly it is about silly things. Most of the time though we do get along good and some of the time great.
You make it sound like Ginny and Corner argued! It didn't sound like break up over an argument to me. Corner sulked, Ginny said "See ya" and that was that. Mutual break up due to not being compatable.
IMO, Ginny's and Corner's 'ship has nothing to do with anyone elses. If this is true,like you stated, then it is more likely that R/Hr relationship will succeed because of the relationship that Lilly had with James at Hogwarts. Lilly was quite the opposite of James, and for reason yet unknown, they got married and had Harry.
"Anyway, Thanks for writing from St. Mungos DripPan. Say Hullo to Longbottoms. Oh, yes, bring some gum wrappers from them; I collect gum wrappers."
1) No problem 2) I will 3) Neville is taking all the gum wrappers with him (sorry).
DripPan
P.S. I am not, again NOT taking any sides in the 'ship argument! I read and if I see a discrepancy, I will more than point it out!
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 6:23 pm (#1493 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I'm going to attempt to introduce some actual canon into this debate, once again:
Barnes and Noble Chat, October 2000:
sammyohyeah: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of GOF? I love your books, btw, and two of them I've read stright through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
jkrowling: well done on the reading speed! yes, something's 'going on'...but Ron doesn't realise it yet...typical boy
brian: Will Ron ever get a girlfriend?
jkrowling: I'm laughing again... why wouldn't he?! though he's not doing too well at the moment, is he? but then, Fleur Delacour was really aiming a bit high
BBC News (Paxman), June 2003:
JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?
JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
Columbus Dispatch, October 1999:
Q: Will Harry find romance in book four?
A: He tries, but he doesn't get very far. They're all kind of after the wrong people, as in life. Hermione gets the first date, and it's quite a cool one because I thought I owed her a bit of fun.
Comic Relief, October 2002:
Zsenya - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
JKR - The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire, Zsenya!
Glynnis L - Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny Weasley?
JKR - You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?
Dateline NBC (Couric) - transcript, June 2003:
Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?”
Rowling: (slight frown) “Hermione and Harry! Do you think so?”
Couric: “No I’m kidding.
Rowling: “Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more potential (or did she say “tension”) there”.
Press Club, October 1999:
JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]
Scholastic 1, February 2000:
Q: Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?
A: In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)
World Day, March 2004:
renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too.
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
polly weasley: Will Harry fall for another girl in book six, or will he be too busy for romance?
JK Rowling replies -> He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?
hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sight*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!
JKRowling.com (FAQ page), 2004:
Q: Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
A: I can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked this one out yet, but I’m not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.
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Czarina II - Jul 18, 2004 8:08 pm (#1494 of 2916)
If JKR has said (somewhere, I think) that she is not a romance writer and that she won't let romance take centre stage in her story for long stretches at a time, it seems unlikely that she would put Harry and Hermione together. Both are such strong characters that their romance would merit a lot of stage time. By contrast, she can make Ron and Hermione happen off-stage, because their actions will not directly relate to Harry. Harry's romantic adventures would thus be less prominent than his other pursuits, hence not detracting from the storyline. I love romance in its proper place and I'm sure so do most of us, but I don't want to see Harry Potter turned into another teen mush series, thank-you-very-much.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 18, 2004 8:20 pm (#1495 of 2916)
I really am trying to think what could happen as far as romantic relationships that no one has guessed yet. I mean, there are people who say Harry/Hermione, Ron/Cho, Dumbledore/Aunt Petunia... what could not have been come up with yet?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 8:24 pm (#1496 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Just one thing I'd like to say; Are we getting any where on this thread? I see every now and then, same canon is mentioned and same comments on the canon are made by same posters.
Well, anyway, here some more is some more evidence which reduces the chances of H/G 'ship. Firstly, where d'you guys get the idea that Harry remotely has some feelings towards Ginny other than friendship? Or vice-versa? I see the only reason half of you think it'll be H/G 'ship because of the "One-Big-Happy-Weasley-Family" theory which is absolutely rubbish. The other half of you think about H/G because they would "look cute" together. This is rediculous. Most of you are prepared to swear that the Library incident and the words "Harry I am talking to you, are you listening?" to mean that a H/G 'ship is on the cards. Well, those who think so, please tell me: do you have even a ghost of a canon evidence that suggests there would be a H/G 'ship?
If so, kindly enlighten me about it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 8:25 pm (#1497 of 2916)
Let it snow!
In response to Czarina II (post #1494):
The best argument I've ever heard against a H/Hr 'ship has been completely literary and was brought up by, I think, Star Crossed. Harry has to stand alone at the end of the series against Voldemort. As Ron pointed out in the PS movie (yes, movie contamination, but it carries the same overall message as the book in this scene), Harry is the one who has to go on, not either of his sidekicks. He has been slowly, systematically distanced from them throughout the series. In PS, they were with him right up to the end of the book, then fell out so he could go on alone. In CoS, Hermione was taken out toward the end, and Ron went on with Harry. In PoA, Ron was taken out toward the end, and Hermione went on with Harry. In GoF, Harry had to face the Triward tasks and Voldemort alone, but had his friends at varying points along the way. In OotP, he is physically distanced from them more (they are made Prefects and he boards the train without them for the first time; they go off for Prefect duty) and he begins to become distanced from them a little mentally. If they become a couple in HBP, he will be distanced from them even more. Even when with them, he will feel distanced from them because, by sheer definition, they would be excluding him in some way (a couple means two people, not three; he might feel like a third wheel part of the time). I think the trend of distancing him from them will continue on through book 6 and 7 up to the point he has to face Voldemort. As others have pointed out, if he suddenly thought "oh, I need Hermione, I love her so much", it would ruin the systematic distancing that Rowling has been setting up. She has been preparing her hero to take on the villian on his own, not with the help of his true love - that's some other story, not this one....
EDIT: Tornedo, the only bit of canon evidence I've seen for a H/G 'ship is in those quotes I gave. I've seen some good arguments, but there is, currently, little canon support outside JKR's quotes, in my view....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 8:47 pm (#1498 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Exactly, Sarah; Harry has been distanced from his friends. But they have had no choice. His friends will not distance themselves from Harry willingly. If they form a 'ship; well, they'd do it willingly. It has not happened so far. BTW, everytime they were distanced from Harry, especially when they were made prefects, Harry was hurt. I just don't think he'll be able to take it if Ron and Hermione would form a 'ship.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 18, 2004 8:48 pm (#1499 of 2916)
Harry knows about Ron and Hermione's feelings, and has known for some time. I really don't think it would bother him; besides, he's been distancing himself for some time, or at least since finding out about the Prophecy.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 8:54 pm (#1500 of 2916)
Let it snow!
He may be hurt... a little. As I said, their relationship would, by sheer definition, exclude him, even when they were trying to include him in some way. But, I think this distancing needs to happen for the sake of the story. That was my point. JKR has been setting this up since book 1, as I pointed out. Yes, it would be willingly, to some degree, on their part, but that doesn't mean it needs to happen any less in terms of the story....
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Rebel without a cause.
Well, it's this way; either there'll be a H/Hr 'ship, or there will be no ship containing either Harry or Hermione. It's preety obvious that Hermione is and will always be the most important girl in Harry's life. And any of his girlfriends aren't going to like that. Same for Hermione. In one of the later books, I can almost see her braking a date because either Harry gets hurt or is in some trouble.
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Star Crossed - Jul 17, 2004 7:16 am (#1452 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, they'll either be a H/Hr ship, no ship containing Harry or Hermione, or there will be a R/Hr ship. R/Hr is out there. Just because not everyone agrees to it, that does not mean it won't happen. Not everyone agrees to H/Hr either.
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Eponine - Jul 17, 2004 7:47 am (#1453 of 2916)
Hello, all. I've never joined this discussion, but I've certainly followed it with interest. I am personally a R/Hr and a H/G shipper. In response to Tornedo about none of Harry's girlfriends understanding his relationship with Hermione, I think that either Ginny or Luna could understand. Ginny especially because she may have been quite shy around him, but she has not been shy around Hermione. They have been thrown together as the only girls several times over the years. I think she understands the depth of their friendship. I'm not saying H/Hr couldn't happen, I just don't think it's likely.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 11:22 am (#1454 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Eponine; Ginny doesn't seem to care a lot about Harry. There are many instances where it is noticed. e.g. In CoS, after Harry rescues Ginny; Ginny doesn't even ask Harry if he was alright; and there was blood on his robes. She's more worried about she herself being expelled. Now look at Hermione when she was 11. She actually came with Harry and Ron through the trap-door.Well, that reduces Ginny's chances a bit. Ginny; I've noticed in OotP, gets angry at Harry far more easily than Hermione does. At some point, she yells at him(not in capitals). Harry has been yelled at at the Dursleys for 10 years and must hate it. Now, that reduces Ginny's chances even more.
Do you want me to give you more instances from the books which will reduce Ginny's chances even more?
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 12:00 pm (#1455 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
There are many instances where it is noticed. e.g. In CoS, after Harry rescues Ginny; Ginny doesn't even ask Harry if he was alright; and there was blood on his robes. She's more worried about she herself being expelled.- Tornedo.
I can see that most of your points are from the essay given by coolbeans some posts earlier. Ginny was only eleven. She was frantic and rather than asking if everyone else is okay, she went mad and just wanted to see her family and sleep, I think. Just because she didn't ask Harry if he was okay doesn't mean she didn't care.
Ginny was angry at Harry. She knows how to get Harry to think straight. He did stop shouting after Ginny set him straight about him not being the only one to have been posessed by Voldemort.
And could I see these "chance-threatening" moments of Ginny's please?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 12:19 pm (#1456 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Sure Prongs, Well, Ginny appears to be a normal girl; nothing extra-ordinary. Harry needs someone exceptionally brilliant girl like Hermione.
Want more? I've got loads, stored since CoS. 'tis the first time I'm actually telling this to someone.
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Courtney22 - Jul 17, 2004 12:21 pm (#1457 of 2916)
I just thought I'd throw this out there, as I have not taken sides on the whole HR/R, H/HR issue, but who did Krum see as the biggest threat? Harry. Now I know many will say that he saw Harry as a threat because of Rita's articles but that wasn't his only reason.
"Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often" p.552 American paperback ed.
Krum sees Harry as a threat not Ron.... just some food for thought.
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haymoni - Jul 17, 2004 12:23 pm (#1458 of 2916)
Harry needs a break. He needs a fling. He won't have a serious girlfriend - she'd be a target for Voldy.
He'd never endanger Ginny.
Hermione already knows Harry is a lightning rod and you can't tell me she hasn't put 2 & 2 together to figure out that Harry has to face Voldy - even Ron could see it.
I could see a pack of girls following Harry around like they did Krum.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 12:31 pm (#1459 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
"Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often" p.552 American paperback ed.
Krum sees Harry as a threat not Ron.... just some food for thought. --Courtney22
Good point Courtney. I should say that I have come accross that argument before and had devised a counter-argument.(Back in those days I was a Victor/Hermione 'shipper.) But hey! I'm not gonna tell it. Let R/Hr 'shippers do some defending for a change.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 12:33 pm (#1460 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Sure Prongs, Well, Ginny appears to be a normal girl; nothing extra-ordinary. Harry needs someone exceptionally brilliant girl like Hermione.- Tornedo.
Oh, I really disagree with that point. Harry doesn't need some "exceptionally brilliant girl". Harry needs a normal girl, who he can relax with and not have to worry about the war with. Harry doesn't want more attention, having Hermione as a girlfriend would make more.
And people usually make threats of people who are in the same league. Krum and Harry are both famous, sometimes surrounded by girls, good at Quidditch and are both Triwizard competitors. None of which point to Ron before OP.
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tracie1976 - Jul 17, 2004 12:46 pm (#1461 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Ginny doesn't seem to care a lot about Harry. There are many instances where it is noticed. e.g. In CoS, after Harry rescues Ginny; Ginny doesn't even ask Harry if he was alright; and there was blood on his robes. She's more worried about she herself being expelled.
Wouldn't you want to ask your crush if he was all right or not? Try to get him to think that you cared about him? Ginny was only worried about herself. She didn't seem to think at what happened to Harry to save her.
Harry doesn't need some "exceptionally brilliant girl". Harry needs a normal girl, who he can relax with and not have to worry about the war with. Harry doesn't want more attention, having Hermione as a girlfriend would make more
How? There is a war that Harry cannot forget. He's always going to have that on his mind. He's got to figure out how he can measure up to Voldemort or he ends up dying. Hermione is always there to push him to achieve his best and help him along with whatever challenges he faces. After Harry kills Voldemort (hopefully) he can then relax along side of Hermione.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 12:47 pm (#1462 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, here's another anti- H/G argument. Ginny can't make Harry feel he's wanted when he's isolated from others. Remember the Hospital incident? About Voldemort possessing Harry? Well, Ginny had a whole day to get Harry to talk about it; but couldn't. Hermione came; she saw and she made Harry talk in 10 minutes.
Now, doesn't that hurt the chances of H/G argument? If not, just tell me, I'll post some more. By the way Prongs, you got the counter-argument to Victor-Harry talk wrong. Actually it's a bit different.
Ponder Ponder by the Pond.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 12:51 pm (#1463 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hermione is always there to push him to achieve his best- Tracie1976
Exactly. She's always there. Yes, Harry will have to work hard if he has any chance of defeating Voldemort but he has to take breaks with Quidditch and other things. Hermione doesn't understand that, as she would rather read a book, or do homework rather than being athletic.
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The Artful Dodger - Jul 17, 2004 12:57 pm (#1464 of 2916)
My strongest argument against a H/Hr 'ship is that Hermione herself shows rather few interest in that. After all, she gives Harry advice how to handle his relationship with Cho, and she wouldn't do that if she wanted to go out with Harry, would she? (Please note that this doesn't make me a R/Hr shipper, I'm really torn in all those shipping things)
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Sir Tornado - Jul 17, 2004 1:15 pm (#1465 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Artfull, who are Arsenal playing against in your Avatar? Is that Denis Berkamp shooting?
I believe Hermione gave Harry advice on how girls behave because she wanted him to understand her own feelings. IMHO, Hermione is dropping hints to Harry.
Hermione doesn't understand that, as she would rather read a book, or do homework rather than being athletic.
That counts in H/Hr favour. You know how Hermione is indiffeent about Quidditch. But she still goes to every Gryffindor match. Why? For Harry.
And people usually make threats of people who are in the same league. Krum and Harry are both famous, sometimes surrounded by girls, good at Quidditch and are both Triwizard competitors. None of which point to Ron before OP. --Prongs.
I'm sorry Prongs but that cannot be a counter-Argument for Krum-talked-to-Harry argument. The thing is, Krum knows Hermione wasn't overrawed by seeing him in the library. He is certainly bright enough to conclude that she wasn't overrawed by Harry just because he was good at quiddich or because he was famous. BTW, Harry is never surrounded by girls. So, why does Krum talk to Harry? In fact even Cho gets jealous at Hermione. Why? Because romantic prospects of Harry and Hermione feel there is Chemistry between Harry and Hermione and feel threatened.
Answer that.
By the way Tracie, what is the new Avatar exactly? Artful Dodger, come on, gather your thoughts. Don't be torn down. If you still are, get up and say: I'll follow the Tornedo; I'll follow the Tornedo. Confused? So am I.
P.S. First time I've seen R/Hr been outnumbered on this forum.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 1:23 pm (#1466 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
That counts in H/Hr favour. You know how Hermione is indiffeent about Quidditch. But she still goes to every Gryffindor match. Why? For Harry.- Tornedo
Yes, she goes for Harry, and in OP Ron too. Hermione could just be supporting Gryffindor. She goes to the Quidditch because she's Harry's best friend. It doesn't point to anything else.
Because romantic prospects of Harry and Hermione feel there is Chemistry between Harry and Hermione and feel threatened.- Tornedo, again!
Depends what you mean by chemistry. Yes, there's a connection between them but nothing romantic has ever been hinted at each other between themselves.
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The One - Jul 17, 2004 1:25 pm (#1467 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Actually, Hermione do not like the Harry/Cho relationship at all, she just try to hide it. Her attitude when she interrogates Harry about the big kiss is rather strange, brisk, vague, absentminded, asking rather personal questions, and the ducking into her letter.
There are a number of indications of Hermione having feelings for Harry, she is probably suppressing them as he apparently does not return the feelings, and she does not want to risk their friendship. I expect Harry's feelings to change soon, no that Cho is out of the picture.
And I agree with Tornedo, the story is developing into Harry and Hermione together facing all the problems ahead as partners, and I see no room in the story for a girl friend for Harry that is not Hermione, nor for a boy friend for Hermione that is not Harry.
And to me, Harry/Hermione is a far better match than Ron/Hermione, the way I read their personalities.
But that is just my opinion.
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The Artful Dodger - Jul 17, 2004 1:35 pm (#1468 of 2916)
Tornedo, in my avatar Dennis Bergkamp is just about to score a marvellous goal against Middlesbrough (it's taken from the Arsenal Centurions DVD - 100 goals by Dennis Bergkamp and Thierry Henry, always worth a watch, even for those who don't support Arsenal). Back to shipping - I believe in R/Hr, but I'm really not sure (as it says in the song: "Que sera, sera, whatever will be, wil be, the future's not our's to see"...).
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Star Crossed - Jul 17, 2004 1:35 pm (#1469 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hermione doesn't understand that, as she would rather read a book, or do homework rather than being athletic.
That counts in H/Hr favour. You know how Hermione is indiffeent about Quidditch. But she still goes to every Gryffindor match. Why? For Harry.
They are friends. I'm going to be on the rifles team this year. My friend hates football (As do I), but she's still going to the games to cheer me on. Does that mean she fancies me? Highly doubtful. And Hermione has not been to every game. She missed one in Chamber of Secrets to find out about the basilisk.
I'm sorry Prongs but that cannot be a counter-Argument for Krum-talked-to-Harry argument. The thing is, Krum knows Hermione wasn't overrawed by seeing him in the library. He is certainly bright enough to conclude that she wasn't overrawed by Harry just because he was good at quiddich or because he was famous. BTW, Harry is never surrounded by girls. So, why does Krum talk to Harry? In fact even Cho gets jealous at Hermione. Why? Because romantic prospects of Harry and Hermione feel there is Chemistry between Harry and Hermione and feel threatened.
Krum doesn't know that? Krum didn't seem to know Hermione very well. He pretty much stalked her to get her to go to the Yule Ball with him. Did she appreciate that? No. Afterwards she was happy, but only because she got a date. He pulled her aside to talk about her visiting him over the summer, when all she wanted to do was to see if Ron and Harry were okay. That annoyed her. Plus, the Krum talking to Harry was a plot advancement. The two had to talk in secret by the forest, so Crouch Jr and Crouch Sr could arrive.
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 1:41 pm (#1470 of 2916)
I believed that Hermione has feelings for Harry but she only suppressed it. I also believed that Hermione was jealous whenever Harry have some relationship with the girls.
There is some subtle indications that she fancies Harry. Notice her reaction when she heard that Cho and Harry kiss. Do you wonder why Hermione set up the interview after Harry's date. I believed that she is doing it to break the ship between Harry and Cho. Not overtly of course.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 1:47 pm (#1471 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I believed that she is doing it to break the ship between Harry and Cho. Not overtly of course.- total hatred.
If Hermione did do this, I do not see Harry going out with her, let alone thinking about it. If Hermione did do it, she caused Harry a whole lot more grief.
And Tornedo's question about Tracie's avatar, I think it says "Harry + Hermione LOVE!!!
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 2:12 pm (#1472 of 2916)
That why I said covertly. She doing it in a subtle manner. She must have studied some psychology. She is using psychological warfare and from the looks of it she is sucessful.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 2:20 pm (#1473 of 2916)
I don't really care about the romantic subplots, but I would like to point out my interpretation of something on JKR's site about this:
Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
She responds with something along the lines of "I won't tell you, but I can't believe none of you have figured this out yet." To me, this says that Hermione loves neither. Most people (I think) think it's going to be Ron/Hermione, and there are many who think Hermione/Harry, so someone has worked that out.
Just my 2 cents/sickles/whatever the British cent is.
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KWeldon - Jul 17, 2004 3:11 pm (#1474 of 2916)
To me JKR's disbelief that we haven't figured it all out yet is because the R/H ship is the ONLY one with overt clues to it: their respective jealousies of Krum and Fluer; their bickering; Hermione's comment about Ron being worse than Harry when it came to girls, etc.
Furthermore, why would JKR allow the movie producers to emphasize their relationship earlier and stronger in the series if it were not going to follow the books?
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 3:32 pm (#1475 of 2916)
What overt clues? In fact in my opinion, R/Hr ship are getting weaker by every passing book. I never have seen argument supporting the R/Hr ship that H/Hr shipper can't rebute. Your strength can be your weakness
By the way Tornedo in response to your question about my age, I am just as old as Harry Potter, technically.
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--» pyro «-- - Jul 17, 2004 3:32 pm (#1476 of 2916)
the world needs people like you and me who've been knocked around by fate/'cause when people see us they don't want to be us and that makes them feel great
Furthermore, why would JKR allow the movie producers to emphasize their relationship earlier and stronger in the series if it were not going to follow the books?
Well, we all know how much she loves red herrings...Still, I'm more of a Harry/Luna fan. *grins absently*
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 3:40 pm (#1477 of 2916)
Yes, if I had to have an opinion on which relationship would be best for the story, I'd definately say Harry/Luna. I doubt it'll happen, though.
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 3:51 pm (#1478 of 2916)
I believe Mrs Rowling subtlely emphasizing H/Hr ship. Ron is getting useless as the books progresses and in the Order of the Phoenix, his use was much like for comic relief
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 17, 2004 3:56 pm (#1479 of 2916)
"Furthermore, why would JKR allow the movie producers to emphasize their relationship earlier and stronger in the series if it were not going to follow the books?"
Why would JKR allow the movie producers to let Hermione say 'Voldemort' in the first movie, when she made it quite clear that Hermione had never said the name until the fifth book?
Sorry, but the movies are not infallible.
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total hatred - Jul 17, 2004 4:03 pm (#1480 of 2916)
Harry/Luna. I am some of supporter of that ship. I believe if Hermione will no go to Harry, Harry will take Luna. I can see chemistry between Harry and Mione and same can said with Harry and Luna but in a diffirent mix
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 17, 2004 4:15 pm (#1481 of 2916)
"I won't tell you, but I can't believe none of you have figured this out yet."
I think what we can read into this is precisely nothing. There is no information in this statement at all. No matter which ship you ship (or if you think there are no ships) you can see hope in this statement. I don't believe it strengthens or weakens any ship.
As for Ginny, it bothers me that she's never given Harry a proper or heartfelt thank-you for what he did for her. It also bothers me that she's never seemed to feel guilty for what she (unwillingly) did in CoS. It's because she is a very undeveloped character, which is why I think she has no chance of being with or for Harry.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 17, 2004 4:24 pm (#1482 of 2916)
Ginny is very shy, which is why she didn't originally thank Harry. By the time she doesn't have a crush on him anymore - or at least will talk around him - it's been three years.
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Chris. - Jul 17, 2004 4:35 pm (#1483 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
But is Harry the sort of person who needs a "thank you" or a "well done"?
I don't think he is. I think Ginny has been thankful everynight since the incident, to Harry and everyone else.
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Green Eyes - Jul 17, 2004 5:33 pm (#1484 of 2916)
I'm still incredulous over those who still think H/Hr is a possibility. JKR has basically answered that question by actually saying that Harry and Hermione are friends - on more than one interview/chat. If she was trying to throw anyone off she wouldn't have said those things. When she doesn't want to let on what's going to happen with any situation/character in her books she avoids a direct answer. The fact that the movie producers have put in R/Hr evidence ( and Steve Kloves and JKR actually talked about it in the COS interview) seals the deal IMHO.
As for H/G...while I think this IS going to happen...I think there is still room for argument over this as Harry and Ginny have just begun to interact so we have to wait and see.
Tornedo...when Harry locks himself in the attic after hearing everyone talk about him at ST. Mungo's, Hermione shows up unexpectedly and he comes out of the attic because he isn't ashamed in front of her...she WASN'T at the hospital. He is also surprised because he thought she was skiing with her parents. When he realizes she lured him into his bedroom and Ginny and Ron are there, he immediately clams up in front of all of them. Hermione only manages to get him out of the attic. It's Ginny who has the courage (and the experience of possession) to get in his face and confront him about his behavior. It's only after the exchange with her that he feels better.
As for Ron becoming useless as the books go on...I think don't think this is true, but I do believe Ron and Hermione's relationship with Harry is changing. That started in GOF. Ron no longer sides with Harry against Hermione when she is trying to convince Harry of something. He tends to feel it is up to Harry to make a decision for himself. This can indicate two things...one, Ron is realizing Harry is getting older and can make his own decisions, or...two, he doesn't want to go against Hermione but at the same time doesn't want to alienate Harry either. This suggests a closer relationship between Ron and Hermione than we/Harry have been privvy to thus far.
As for Harry's relationship with Hermione, he chafes at her constant admonitions and tends to avoid her advice/company at times. I saw Harry has impatient and intolerant of Hermione in OOTP, but there is evidence of this chafing in all the books. He keeps things from both of this best friends because he doesn't want to deal with their reactions.
Both Ron and Hermione are not sure what to do with Harry in book 5, they are unable at times to manage his anger. They tend to patronize him when he is angry and this makes him more angry.
When they go to the ministry at the end of OOTP, Harry doesn't want Luna/Neville and Ginny to go because he doesn't see them as capable. In reality it is Ron and Hermione who are out of the fight before the others showing that Harry may be needing to rely on others as well in the future.
As for JKR saying she can't believe we haven't figured it out yet...well I know exactly how she feels! It seems quite obvious to me. But I guess it's human nature that people will believe what they want to because they want to. This forum wouldn't exist otherwise!
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Eponine - Jul 17, 2004 6:58 pm (#1485 of 2916)
Okay, I was just looking through some of the articles on the lexicon from the Quick Quotes section which lists a lot of the interviews JKR has done over the years. This is a quote from the Sunday Gazette-Mail on 14 November 1999
- On whether Harry and his friend Hermione will have a date when they get older: "No, but I won't answer for anyone else - nudge, nudge, wink, wink."
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I think that might be a link, but as I am not sure how to make them, I'm not quite certain it will be.
Edit: Although, I suppose you could argue that people can fall in love without actually dating (I know a couple who never dated, and then one day out of the blue got engaged) I don't think H/H will be ending up together.
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Ladybug220 - Jul 17, 2004 8:34 pm (#1486 of 2916)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Excellent Green Eyes!! and you too Eponine! Tornedo with as much evidence as you have produced, I still don't see Harry and Hermione as a couple - I see it all as friendship. And as much as I would like Harry to end up with Ginny, time will only tell.
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The One - Jul 18, 2004 3:41 am (#1487 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I'm still incredulous over those who still think JKR's answers is to be taken seriously. Lots and lots of people see signs of H/Hr comming, and see signs of R/Hr as being a red Herring. This does not mean that it is so, because lots of lots of people have seen R/Hr mcomming. What it does mean though, is that either one of the camps consists of people that are stupid, reading into the books things that are simply not there, or JKR have deliberately made the books ambigous. And if the latter is the case, why would she reveal the information in interwees? That simply does not make sense. And as I highly doubt that half of the fandom are stupid, I am very open for the possibility that JKR is bluffing.
"It seems quite obvious to me. But I guess it's human nature that people will believe what they want to because they want to."
Green Eyes, I assume you realize that this sentence may also apply to yourself and your shipmates?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 4:26 am (#1488 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Green Eyes; welcome back. I bet you got about a 100 new posts on this thread.
Ladybug; so, my anti-H/G evidence wasn't good enough was it? Ok, no problem, here's more.
Ginny just won't be able to stay with Harry after she comes to know the prophesy as his girlfriend. I don't doubt her loyalty to Harry just as a friend; but as I girlfriend? No way. Just consider this, why did she leave Corner? Because he sulked after losing the quidditch match. Well, now I don't approve sulking, but, well, even I sulk among some of my friends if Liverpool lose to Manchester United. (I support Liverpool; while they support ManU) But, it's all right really, we don't break our friendship just because of that. Now as far as Ginny goes, if she brke up with Corner just because he sulked; what's the betting she'll break up as Harry's girlfriend after she comes to know the Prophecy?
Answer that!
Paulus; I think we should keep the movies out of this.
Welcome the One. I hope that atleast you'll be "the One" to convince R/Hr 'shippers here.
I repeat, to all those who need to whom it is needed: H/Hr are friends. Relationships and their natures can change in the future.
By the way; Total Hatred; when you said you were "technically as old as Harry was, did you mean 16 or did you mean 24?
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The One - Jul 18, 2004 4:50 am (#1489 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
"Welcome the One. I hope that at least you'll be "the One" to convince R/Hr 'shippers here."
Thank you, but why convince them? Much more fun just to provoke them enough to enable us to shout "We told you so!" when the next book arrives! (Or go into hiding if we are mistaken, but I very much doubt that will happen.)
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drippan - Jul 18, 2004 5:28 am (#1490 of 2916)
I found a piece of parchment and quill here at St Mungo's psycho ward and had to respond. This is not, I REPEAT, NOT my feelings towards any 'ships but just answering a question....
Tornedo, "Now as far as Ginny goes, if she brke up with Corner just because he sulked; what's the betting she'll break up as Harry's girlfriend after she comes to know the Prophecy?"
That was just maybe one of the reasons. When I read it, I took it as her and Corner didn't really have enough in common but the straw that broke the camels back was the sulking.
Little things come up in a relationship and if you have too many of these, the 'ship ends. The one thing that you recall why the 'ship ended is usually the last thing that happened. In this case, Ravenclaw losing to Gryffindor and Corner sulking.
I wonder what Corner would say if we asked him why the relationship ended.......probably something totally different than what Ginny said.
Now, where is that Jello cart.......
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 11:52 am (#1491 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Drippy, Ha HA HAAA I was waiting and waiting for someone to come with this argument and mess themselves up. In fact you have done much better by actually giving me quotes and you've just shot yourself in your own foot. You've destroyed R/Hr 'ship.
That was just maybe one of the reasons. When I read it, I took it as her and Corner didn't really have enough in common but the straw that broke the camels back was the sulking. --DripPan.
Hmm, Ginny/Corner nothing much in common. Last straw that broke camels back? Sounds like R/Hr and some argument they'll have.
Little things come up in a relationship and if you have too many of these, the 'ship ends. The one thing that you recall why the 'ship ended is usually the last thing that happened. In this case, Ravenclaw losing to Gryffindor and Corner sulking. --DripPan
Ron and Hermione have many silly arguments. According to your own argument, many of these will break the 'ship. R/Hr may have many required to break the 'ship. You recall the last thing that happened when you think why the 'ship ended? Well, in R/Hr 'ship, it'll be something to do with Harry.
Well, I'm a bit disappointed. Only one person fell for my trap. I'll designate this due to the fact that my last post wasn't on right time.
Anyway, Thanks for writing from St. Mungos DripPan. Say Hullo to Longbottoms. Oh, yes, bring some gum wrappers from them; I collect gum wrappers. Once again, THANKS.
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drippan - Jul 18, 2004 5:24 pm (#1492 of 2916)
Tornedo, " Ron and Hermione have many silly arguments. According to your own argument, many of these will break the 'ship. R/Hr may have many required to break the 'ship."
OMG, time for me to divorce my wife!!! We argue sometimes too and mostly it is about silly things. Most of the time though we do get along good and some of the time great.
You make it sound like Ginny and Corner argued! It didn't sound like break up over an argument to me. Corner sulked, Ginny said "See ya" and that was that. Mutual break up due to not being compatable.
IMO, Ginny's and Corner's 'ship has nothing to do with anyone elses. If this is true,like you stated, then it is more likely that R/Hr relationship will succeed because of the relationship that Lilly had with James at Hogwarts. Lilly was quite the opposite of James, and for reason yet unknown, they got married and had Harry.
"Anyway, Thanks for writing from St. Mungos DripPan. Say Hullo to Longbottoms. Oh, yes, bring some gum wrappers from them; I collect gum wrappers."
1) No problem 2) I will 3) Neville is taking all the gum wrappers with him (sorry).
DripPan
P.S. I am not, again NOT taking any sides in the 'ship argument! I read and if I see a discrepancy, I will more than point it out!
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 6:23 pm (#1493 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I'm going to attempt to introduce some actual canon into this debate, once again:
Barnes and Noble Chat, October 2000:
sammyohyeah: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of GOF? I love your books, btw, and two of them I've read stright through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
jkrowling: well done on the reading speed! yes, something's 'going on'...but Ron doesn't realise it yet...typical boy
brian: Will Ron ever get a girlfriend?
jkrowling: I'm laughing again... why wouldn't he?! though he's not doing too well at the moment, is he? but then, Fleur Delacour was really aiming a bit high
BBC News (Paxman), June 2003:
JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?
JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
Columbus Dispatch, October 1999:
Q: Will Harry find romance in book four?
A: He tries, but he doesn't get very far. They're all kind of after the wrong people, as in life. Hermione gets the first date, and it's quite a cool one because I thought I owed her a bit of fun.
Comic Relief, October 2002:
Zsenya - Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
JKR - The answer to that is in Goblet of Fire, Zsenya!
Glynnis L - Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny Weasley?
JKR - You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?
Dateline NBC (Couric) - transcript, June 2003:
Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?”
Rowling: (slight frown) “Hermione and Harry! Do you think so?”
Couric: “No I’m kidding.
Rowling: “Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more potential (or did she say “tension”) there”.
Press Club, October 1999:
JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]
Scholastic 1, February 2000:
Q: Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?
A: In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)
World Day, March 2004:
renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too.
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
polly weasley: Will Harry fall for another girl in book six, or will he be too busy for romance?
JK Rowling replies -> He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?
hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sight*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!
JKRowling.com (FAQ page), 2004:
Q: Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
A: I can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked this one out yet, but I’m not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.
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Czarina II - Jul 18, 2004 8:08 pm (#1494 of 2916)
If JKR has said (somewhere, I think) that she is not a romance writer and that she won't let romance take centre stage in her story for long stretches at a time, it seems unlikely that she would put Harry and Hermione together. Both are such strong characters that their romance would merit a lot of stage time. By contrast, she can make Ron and Hermione happen off-stage, because their actions will not directly relate to Harry. Harry's romantic adventures would thus be less prominent than his other pursuits, hence not detracting from the storyline. I love romance in its proper place and I'm sure so do most of us, but I don't want to see Harry Potter turned into another teen mush series, thank-you-very-much.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 18, 2004 8:20 pm (#1495 of 2916)
I really am trying to think what could happen as far as romantic relationships that no one has guessed yet. I mean, there are people who say Harry/Hermione, Ron/Cho, Dumbledore/Aunt Petunia... what could not have been come up with yet?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 8:24 pm (#1496 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Just one thing I'd like to say; Are we getting any where on this thread? I see every now and then, same canon is mentioned and same comments on the canon are made by same posters.
Well, anyway, here some more is some more evidence which reduces the chances of H/G 'ship. Firstly, where d'you guys get the idea that Harry remotely has some feelings towards Ginny other than friendship? Or vice-versa? I see the only reason half of you think it'll be H/G 'ship because of the "One-Big-Happy-Weasley-Family" theory which is absolutely rubbish. The other half of you think about H/G because they would "look cute" together. This is rediculous. Most of you are prepared to swear that the Library incident and the words "Harry I am talking to you, are you listening?" to mean that a H/G 'ship is on the cards. Well, those who think so, please tell me: do you have even a ghost of a canon evidence that suggests there would be a H/G 'ship?
If so, kindly enlighten me about it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 8:25 pm (#1497 of 2916)
Let it snow!
In response to Czarina II (post #1494):
The best argument I've ever heard against a H/Hr 'ship has been completely literary and was brought up by, I think, Star Crossed. Harry has to stand alone at the end of the series against Voldemort. As Ron pointed out in the PS movie (yes, movie contamination, but it carries the same overall message as the book in this scene), Harry is the one who has to go on, not either of his sidekicks. He has been slowly, systematically distanced from them throughout the series. In PS, they were with him right up to the end of the book, then fell out so he could go on alone. In CoS, Hermione was taken out toward the end, and Ron went on with Harry. In PoA, Ron was taken out toward the end, and Hermione went on with Harry. In GoF, Harry had to face the Triward tasks and Voldemort alone, but had his friends at varying points along the way. In OotP, he is physically distanced from them more (they are made Prefects and he boards the train without them for the first time; they go off for Prefect duty) and he begins to become distanced from them a little mentally. If they become a couple in HBP, he will be distanced from them even more. Even when with them, he will feel distanced from them because, by sheer definition, they would be excluding him in some way (a couple means two people, not three; he might feel like a third wheel part of the time). I think the trend of distancing him from them will continue on through book 6 and 7 up to the point he has to face Voldemort. As others have pointed out, if he suddenly thought "oh, I need Hermione, I love her so much", it would ruin the systematic distancing that Rowling has been setting up. She has been preparing her hero to take on the villian on his own, not with the help of his true love - that's some other story, not this one....
EDIT: Tornedo, the only bit of canon evidence I've seen for a H/G 'ship is in those quotes I gave. I've seen some good arguments, but there is, currently, little canon support outside JKR's quotes, in my view....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 8:47 pm (#1498 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Exactly, Sarah; Harry has been distanced from his friends. But they have had no choice. His friends will not distance themselves from Harry willingly. If they form a 'ship; well, they'd do it willingly. It has not happened so far. BTW, everytime they were distanced from Harry, especially when they were made prefects, Harry was hurt. I just don't think he'll be able to take it if Ron and Hermione would form a 'ship.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 18, 2004 8:48 pm (#1499 of 2916)
Harry knows about Ron and Hermione's feelings, and has known for some time. I really don't think it would bother him; besides, he's been distancing himself for some time, or at least since finding out about the Prophecy.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 8:54 pm (#1500 of 2916)
Let it snow!
He may be hurt... a little. As I said, their relationship would, by sheer definition, exclude him, even when they were trying to include him in some way. But, I think this distancing needs to happen for the sake of the story. That was my point. JKR has been setting this up since book 1, as I pointed out. Yes, it would be willingly, to some degree, on their part, but that doesn't mean it needs to happen any less in terms of the story....
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Maarcus Humill - Jul 18, 2004 8:54 pm (#1501 of 2916)
I have heard that there are many examples of Hermione showing that she likes Ron. Yet I have not seen many. It may be ignorance, but could somebody please give me some instances of Hermione showing that she likes Ron?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 9:02 pm (#1502 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
No, there aren't any canon evidence to point to the fact that Hermione likes Ron; other than Her blushes when he mentions Vicky. That may be attributable to different reasons.
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Maarcus Humill - Jul 18, 2004 9:19 pm (#1503 of 2916)
What I think is funny is that I read that when harry tells Ron and Hermone about his kiss with Cho that Hermione kind of feels jealous or something by the way she talks. But, at the same time, she was writing her very long letter to Krum. I just thught I should post that because I thing that its rather funny.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 9:47 pm (#1504 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Whether Hermione like Ron or what seems to be all in the interpretations, at this point at least. Many think the letter writing is a clue to her trying to make Ron jealous (she's trying to get someone's attention or it isn't that personal of a letter because, if it were, she wouldn't be writing it in the common room). Some think her responses during that scene have more to do with the way Ron is acting and nothing at all to do with Harry. As I said, all in the interpretation, at this point....
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The One - Jul 19, 2004 2:17 am (#1505 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
S. E. Jones: About your theory about Harry being the lonely hero that will meet the Dark Lord alone.
Yes, in most of the books Harry are alone at the final showdown. But what all the books have shown us is that Harry is nothing by dead on his own. In PS he would never have reached the final showdown if his friends had not helped him, and not survived if Dumbledore had not arrived. Similar points can be made for all the books. While I do expect him to be alone for the very final showdown, his friends and supporters will stay with him on the road towards it.
Love has been a main theme for every book. Love between friends, love between parents and children, the teachers love, or lack of love for their students. Why should not, as the children grow older, also the romantic love between the Hero and his woman turn out to be important?
I do not agree that Harry removes himself from his friends. He has removed himself somewhat from Ron, that is true, but despite all his anger and frustration, I believe Harry and Hermione to be closer than ever before.
And I believe that the girl in his life will be Hermione, partly because of my belief that they are the hero and the heroine that will go towards the final showdown together, but also partly because then a romance can be written in without distracting to much from the main plot. It does not do to spend 2/3 of the book saving the world with Hermione and 1/3 of the book courting Susan Bones or Ginny or whoever.
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Gryffindor Ghost - Jul 19, 2004 7:01 am (#1506 of 2916)
Bravo!
I am with you, Tornedo, The One, etc. of the H/Hr 'ship. Without people like you, the H/Hr 'ship would've sank ages ago.
Keep the arguments going, and give the R/Hr shippers a run for their money (and evidences). H/Hr rules!
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 7:12 am (#1507 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes, in most of the books Harry are alone at the final showdown. But what all the books have shown us is that Harry is nothing by dead on his own. In PS he would never have reached the final showdown if his friends had not helped him, and not survived if Dumbledore had not arrived. Similar points can be made for all the books. While I do expect him to be alone for the very final showdown, his friends and supporters will stay with him on the road towards it.
Exactly. That's what we are saying. He will still have Ron and Hermione's help, even if they start dating, but he will be alone at the final battle.
Love has been a main theme for every book. Love between friends, love between parents and children, the teachers love, or lack of love for their students. Why should not, as the children grow older, also the romantic love between the Hero and his woman turn out to be important?
I don't see how it could serve as important. It would change nothing if Harry wanted to save her, if she was a friend or if he loved her. Either way, he would save her. People seem to think you only save the people you love, but Harry often saves his friends, and that does not mean he loves them.
I do not agree that Harry removes himself from his friends. He has removed himself somewhat from Ron, that is true, but despite all his anger and frustration, I believe Harry and Hermione to be closer than ever before.
How? Harry gets more annoyed with her than ever before, so how does this make them closer? If they were closer, she would know him better than to do certain things she does. Such as ask to borrow Hedwig. She could have easily asked to borrow Pig. Instead, she bothered Harry who was already upset. But maybe you mean near the end of the book where she tells him Harry just likes saving people? That didn't go over well either. Harry gets upset. Yes, it is true, but she could have said it nicer. She did not have to say it the way she did. If they were closer, Harry would have thought about it. But he didn't. He was just sick and tired of her pestering him. So he agreed to quickly check. Nothing more.
And I believe that the girl in his life will be Hermione, partly because of my belief that they are the hero and the heroine that will go towards the final showdown together, but also partly because then a romance can be written in without distracting to much from the main plot. It does not do to spend 2/3 of the book saving the world with Hermione and 1/3 of the book courting Susan Bones or Ginny or whoever.
And where would Ron be in this equation? Licking his wounds?
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Crookshanks - Jul 19, 2004 7:24 am (#1508 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 19, 2004 7:46 am
4th Indian here from Bangalore ....
Until I read this thread,I hadn't bothered about 'ships at all,so I decided to weigh the pros & cons of the 2 prominent pairs - H/Hr , R/Hr
There are people who argue taking PS/SS,CoS,PoA into account,but I think 13 is too tender an age to really think. GoF & OoP are books we need to be looking at.
In favour of H/Hr - No doubt Hermione feels jealous of Harry's kiss with Cho in OoP.She seems to understand every emotion Harry experiences & certainly cares more for his emotions than those of Ron. She is the only girl who can take in Harry's emotional outbursts without feeling offended, except on a few occasions. There is a subconscious Hermione in Harry which has now become a very important part of Harry's conscience,and shall probably be more so after having not heeded her words of practising Occlumency & heading off for DoM for the 'saving-life thing'. She provides an excellent opportunity for Harry to release his pent up emotions by organizing the interview. I read somewhere in the list the list that Hermione mightn't have realized that Cho & Harry's date ended early, but come on, no one wants to have a half-an-hour date on valentines' day,and if the date is short,it's very obvious why. I agree with someone saying that she was telling him how a girl's mind works just to make him read hers. AN INTERESTING FACT is the following - How does Viktor Krum know that Harry knows more than him (as Hermione tells Ron during the DA formation) unless someone ahs told him ? Krum & Harry met only in the Triwizard. Task 1, Harry used a Summoning Charm which anyone could have.Task 2,he was way ahead of Krum & Task 3, Krum was under Moody's imperious curse. So it's obvious Hermione's boasted to Krum about what Harry could do. Now why would a girl mention a second boy while writing to a boy, unless he's very important to her ? It's also true that Harry's a little distanced from the others in OoP, but that's because of his detentions with Umbridge every other day, but I couldn't help noticing the fact that as my compatriot Tornedo mentions, Hermione has more page time than Ron, as well as , Hermione having more page time with Harry trying to help him out of his distresses & dreams rather than with Ron. The cute freckles were in comparison to Eloise Midgen's acne. Obviously freckles wins over acne. We do see a lot more physical interaction between Harry & Hermione than between Ron & Hermione. If there's been someone who could control Harry temper, it's been Hermione, be it after his name came out of the GoF and was cut up with Ron or when she dares to say Voldemort's name to calm him down. In essence Hermione's getting closer to Harry, might be unknowingly, but she'll obviously place him above Ron after getting to know the prophecy. She never gives up to stop Harry from doing something she doesn't want him to,but Harry does it, but never does she gets cut up with him when he doesn't heed her.
We still dont know what's on her mind .... Now, did she desire to meet Harry on purpose on Valentines day ? It's obvious that a girl would hate her valentine giving some other girl a chunk of his time. Why did she make it mid-day & not 3 PM ? (they've stayed until 3:30 PM on the weekend they met Sirius in GoF). She's always in tears whenever Harry shouts at her. Why ? Why not with Ron ? She always sits next to Harry in class. Why not Ron ? She asks HArry to help her with elf hats & not Ron, fully knowing that Harry & Ron both desist SPEW equally.And Harry conceals from her that Dobby is the only elf taking the clothes away just to keep her spirits high.She expresses a certain level of confidence in Harry (the prefect scene/DA classes/SPEW etc.). The normal rule-abiding Hermione proposes the DA which later becomes the only thing Harry looks forward to.She monitors Harry closely in Snape's classes. The list goes on ........ I see sense in some people claiming a H/Hr 'ship. (Hermione never spoke about Sirius after his death. Ron stopped her. If Luna's enquiry could relieve Harry,Hermione's would have been more than welcome I guess).
In Favour of R/Hr -
Prima facie JKR's 'platonic friendship' statement. Universal truths are always used in the present tense (Sun rises in the east etc..). So may be R/Hr's possible. Then we have this PoA scene where Hermione finds comfort in Ron's hug. JKR & Cuaron wouldn't want it if it wasn't important.(We know the story's jeopardised but still ...). The word has come out but the JKR who says she enjoys arguments wouldn't give it away in an interview, would she ? The philosophy that people who care fight a lot is not false as well. Then comes Ron vs Krum. Hermione has gone pink even when she's felt angry, I don't reckon where though. But the GoF incident wasn't in that mood. Harry's a slightly silent character, by and large,(may be a good listener), and Ron & Hermione do most of the talking.They spend a lot of time together whenver Harry's gone for Quidditch sessions or detentions. Then we have Hermione's kiss which sends Ron to cloud-6 if not Cloud-9 as compared to the kiss Hermione gave Harry at the end of GoF, whose effects are concealed. Hermione makes this statement "Harry, you're worse than Ron....no infact you're not", when Harry says she's not ugly.(what does that mean ?) Hermione asks Harry to patch up with Ron in GoF probably fearing that she might sever her relationship with Ron..... so on & so forth...
So far R/Hr = H/Hr from Hermione's point of view. While Ron has realised some feelings for Hermione (inspite of frequent bickering etc..), Harry's so far been too disturbed to realise emotional feelings for her other than her being his best friend. Without peace of mind, he can't cast himself beyond physical attraction (think Cho), but Sirius's death will surely make us see a new Harry,who will probably think about the people who can fill up the void space in his heart,the obvious candidates on the list are Hermione & Ron, probably Luna & Ginny to some extent. May be at the end of book 7,his life would still be in a turmoil, which would call for the necessity of a girl who can really understand him & help him out of it, and my choice would be (over others by a large margin) Hermione, just as she's done in many occasions earlier. From Ron's point of view, Hermione's the only reason he's able to pass subjects or say,scrape thru them & she's the only one who doesn't treat him as Harry's sidekick, but something more than that. Save for JKR's statements, I've would have voted for H/Hr, but I'm forced to lean towards R/Hr & probably H/L. But you can never say,not many could guess the climaxes she's come up with, and as someone rightly pointed out, if she wants H/Hr, so will it be. But,the purpose of the book is more than teenage infatuations so let the purpose be upheld. (I stamp my foot down on people who say Harry is going to alienate himself from Ron & Hermione if R/Hr comes thru.It's not wrong to say that it's mostly because of Hermione & Ron that he's able to do whatever he does.)
Let's just say, JKR will have the last say, be prepared for anything then....
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Crookshanks - Jul 19, 2004 7:55 am (#1509 of 2916)
Wanted to add this....with a request to bear with me for a few more lines.... This is probably a little more important than what was written above.
I read that Ron's character has it's foundation in a very close friend of JKR's by name Sean, if I'm right & that Hermione's character reminds her pretty much of her childhood. She also claims that what she adores beyond anything is courage, something Harry has in plenty & certainly in a greater measure than Ron. I believe that the psychology of any author or a script-writer is to associate him/herself with one character & reserve what he/she expects out of his/her dream-man/woman for the protagonist who will obviously be the sort of person who will possess qualities the author prizes most.Here, undoubtedly it's Harry. Given the fact that JKR & Sean are still nothing beyond 'platonic friends',(again as what I've read) I reckon the author would not end it with a R/Hr unless there was.... (let me not comment further lest JKR gets cross with me.... it's just my opinion.Possible that JKR differs). Yeah, may be a few dates & that's it,they break....
let's see,but seriously I don't wanna see H/Pansy , H/Milli & probably H/L as well.... Ginny's better. H/Hr will be the best while R/Hr isn't all that bad ..... (Wonder what Harry's Potions OWL willbe ? T ? )
Whew !!
PS - If the above info is a fallacy, PLEASE FORGIVE ME.....
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 19, 2004 8:41 am (#1510 of 2916)
"But maybe you mean near the end of the book where she tells him Harry just likes saving people? That didn't go over well either."
How about closer to the end, in the battle at the Department of Mysteries, when Harry and Hermione kept saving each other's lives?
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tracie1976 - Jul 19, 2004 8:57 am (#1511 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
How about closer to the end, in the battle at the Department of Mysteries, when Harry and Hermione kept saving each other's lives?
In a R/Hr ship view, why did JKR put Harry, Hermione, and Neville fighting DEs together with Harry and Hermione saving each other like that? I mean if she did want Ron and Hermione together wouldn't it have made a little more sense to put Ron and Hermione saving each other or by making Ginny go along with Harry so Harry could be saving Ginny?
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Catherine - Jul 19, 2004 9:14 am (#1512 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tracie wrote, "In a R/Hr ship view, why did JKR put Harry, Hermione, and Neville fighting DEs together with Harry and Hermione saving each other like that? I mean if she did want Ron and Hermione together wouldn't it have made a little more sense to put Ron and Hermione saving each other or by making Ginny go along with Harry so Harry could be saving Ginny? "
Because JKR has already done that! :-)
Ron helped save Hermione in SS, and Harry saved Ginny in CoS.
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tracie1976 - Jul 19, 2004 9:29 am (#1513 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Because JKR has already done that! :-)
Ron helped save Hermione in SS, and Harry saved Ginny in CoS
Well, wouldn't it even make more sence to keep that up in the following books? Plus didn't Ron not want to go help Harry with saving Hermione from the troll?
pg. 173 SS: "I've just thought---Hermione."
"What about her?"
"She doesn't know about the troll."
Ron bit his lip.
"Oh, all right," he snapped. "But Percy'd better not see us."
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Catherine - Jul 19, 2004 9:40 am (#1514 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Can we really infer future romantic relationships by who saves whom?
For instance, Harry has a "saving people thing," and he's saved Ron, Hermione, Sirius, Ginny, Cedric Diggory, Arthur Weasley, Peter Pettigrew, and Buckbeak! I think some of these individuals are not really options for romantic attachments. ;-D
(Note, I was mostly kidding in my previous, Tracie; I sure wasn't picking on you or your post!)
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Eponine - Jul 19, 2004 11:17 am (#1515 of 2916)
I just came across an interesting essay.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I know that most likely, nothing will convince H/H-er's to convert to R/H-er's and vice versa. The thing about shipping is we can argue until we're blue in the face or have broken fingers from all of our typing, but most of the counter arguments don't change our minds. This essay, while probably not convincing anyone to board a different ship, should at least be food for thought.
Oh, by the way, it is extremely looooong!
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 19, 2004 11:24 am (#1516 of 2916)
The point is, JKR has said no one has figured out what the romantic relationships will be. Hence, its probably not Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, or Uncle Vernon/Umbridge. It's probably something we haven't guessed yet.
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Magika - Jul 19, 2004 11:43 am (#1517 of 2916)
Well, actually, JKR has said: "I can't believe that some of you haven't figured it out yet", when asked who Hermione's going to end up with. But you're still partly right, because she's said that we haven't guessed the right future for Harry...
I'm holding a thread to Ron/Hermione and Harry being single forever.
-Si-
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Sir Tornado - Jul 19, 2004 12:24 pm (#1518 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
4th Indian here from Bangalore .... --Crookshanks.
Actually, Crookshanks, you are the 6th Indian. Dracoallthrway, Anuradha, Devika, Nidhi and Myself are the other five. 6 in a country of 1 billion? I now know exactly what being "one in a million" means By the way, I agree with most of your well, lets call it mini-essay. You can guess which part it is? H/Hr of course. Anyway...
Now, I think I can explain Hermione's mood when Harry told her and Ron about his kiss with Cho. She was frowning at that time. Frowning can means one of these two things.
1) She was unhappy. That means she really likes Harry and got jealous.
2) She was thinking hard. Now, I reckon she was thinking how exactly she was supposed to break Harry and Cho. There's no way she would be thinking of anything else. Why would she break up Harry-Cho? Because she likes Harry herself.
Either way it's H/Hr.
By the way, The One, I agree with your last post #1505. Gryffindor Ghost, thanks for the encouragement Plus, I now declare that I agree with anyone who is a H/Hr 'shipper.
--Thanks--
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 12:48 pm (#1519 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Either way it's H/Hr.- Tornedo.
Actually, I've got some reasoning for Hermione's frown. The whole passage goes like this.
Numbly surprised, Harry nodded. Ron sniggered, breaking off when Hermione caught his eye.
"So -er- what did she want?" he asked in a mock casual voice.
She -" Harry began, rather hoarsely; he cleared his throat and tried again. "She -er-"
"Did you kiss?" asked Hermione briskly
Ron sat so fast he sent his ink bottle flying all over the rug. Disreagarding this completely, he stared avidly at Harry.
"Well?" he demanded
Harry looked from Ron's expression of mingled curiosity and hilarity to Hermione's slight frown, and nodded,"
To me, Hermione's slight frown was because of Ron's "expression of mingled curiosity". He was 15, going on sixteen. Hermione's frown was because he acted unmaturely, unlike herself. But these things are picked up in different ways by people with different views.
And the word "briskly" has brought oh-so many arguments about Hermione's feelings.
It means "to quicken or to hurry up". Exactly what she may have been doing to Harry to get the information out of him. Not in a bad way, just because she was dying to know. Or to be brisk means to be off-hand, casual in manner. Like Ron, she may have been faking a "casual" attitude.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 19, 2004 2:18 pm (#1520 of 2916)
"The thing about shipping is we can argue until we're blue in the face or have broken fingers from all of our typing"
...or until the seventh book comes out. I'm sure that it all the 'ships will be either made clear by then, or made irrelevant by then...
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Eponine - Jul 19, 2004 4:19 pm (#1521 of 2916)
Paulus Maximus, yes I did mean or until the 7th book is out.
I did come across an interesting question on another web site though. I would be interested to hear people's response. If, in the event of book 7's publication, your ship has crashed into an iceberg and sunk, how will you respond? I'm asking everyone, not just one ship or another. The people on this other site (can't remember which, sorry) had several answers. Some said they would accept it, some said they would write fanfic to correct JKR's misguided wrongs, some said they would stop reading the books, and some said they would hold protests at their local Barnes and Noble.
So, how would everyone here react to the sinking of their beloved ship?
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timrew - Jul 19, 2004 4:20 pm (#1522 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
From being an ardent Ron/Hermione shipper, I can only see Harry/Hermione coming about if Ron dies.
And the more I read these 'ships', and the more I read the books, the more I can see this coming about.
I would love for it to end up Harry/Ginny; but JKR has told us that there will be more deaths (of important characters) to come.
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 4:23 pm (#1523 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Great question. If R/Hr didn't happen, I think I'd avoid the forum for days, then create a new name, so no one knew I was wrong. I think I'd accept it, and probably wonder how JKR could pull it off.
If Snape/Sinistra didn't happen, I'd cry for weeks.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 19, 2004 4:31 pm (#1524 of 2916)
This reminds me... does anyone have the JKR quote where she said no one in the trio would die?
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 4:43 pm (#1525 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Luke, JKR would never, never say that.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 19, 2004 5:05 pm (#1526 of 2916)
I could have sworn she said that in some interview... but then again, I used to get my information from some fairly unreliable fan sites. If she actually didn't say that, then that removes a lot of my cynicism about books 6 & 7.
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 5:33 pm (#1527 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
If, in the event of book 7's publication, your ship has crashed into an iceberg and sunk, how will you respond?- Eponine.
It wouldn't be a big thing for me. I prefer some 'ships *cough* H/G, R/Hr *cough* but it wouldn't really matter if my predictions turned out to be wrong, even though they have made my fingers sore due to the typing out of arguments for them!
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S.E. Jones - Jul 19, 2004 5:56 pm (#1528 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I have to echo Prong's comments here. I see some 'ships as being more practical and more obvious than others, but I would hardly be destroyed if they didn't come about. I don't read the books for the 'shipping. I read them for the great battle of good vs evil she's protraying and the great storytelling used to weave the tale together. The 'ships are just a small thread on a far larger tapestry for me.
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Eponine - Jul 19, 2004 6:00 pm (#1529 of 2916)
I wouldn't be devastated if the ship I prefer didn't happen. I would continue to read the books and enjoy them just as much as before. Shipping is such an emotionally charged argument, I was interested in people's reactions.
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 6:11 pm (#1530 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And I now feel this tall:
. compared to my normal five foot.
I do read the books, other than for R/Hr getting together! Sort of.
Kidding, I swear.
I read it for Snape and Sinistra getting together.
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total hatred - Jul 19, 2004 6:22 pm (#1531 of 2916)
I don't mind if my ship will not prosper. All I care is that I have a good time arguing with all of you.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 19, 2004 6:29 pm (#1532 of 2916)
I will admit that I would be disappointed if H/H didn't happen.
What I think is that if either R/H or H/H happens in book 6, their fans are going to have a hard time not gloating, and the others will be a bit annoyed and defensive. You know there will be some "I told you so, you idiots!" idiots, who won't be able to hold it in.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 19, 2004 6:44 pm (#1533 of 2916)
Let it snow!
coolbeans3131: You know there will be some "I told you so, you idiots!" idiots, who won't be able to hold it in.
Well there had better not be any of those on this forum..... All in fun is one thing, but in spite, to tease, or to get a rise out of isn't allowed.....
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drippan - Jul 19, 2004 7:15 pm (#1534 of 2916)
After reading this forum, I have decided to keep an open mind for future 'ships!
I was a R/Hr 'ship before coming to the Lexagon but there have been so many good arguments for each side (H/Hr and R/Hr).
JKR, do what you must but do me a favor, keep it suspenseful until the last chapter of Book 7......I like reading this forum as much as you!!
DripPan
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 8:24 pm (#1535 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Just wanted to bring this thread around from the R/Hr V H/Hr...
Do you think any of Sirius's ex-girlfriends will appear? He was described as "casually-handsome" somewhere and there was at least one girl, when he and James were sitting their OWLs, looking hopefully at him.
Ideas?...
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Weeny Owl - Jul 19, 2004 8:30 pm (#1536 of 2916)
I agree with Sarah and Prongs. Relationships are fun to debate, but I really couldn't care less if my favorite pairings happen. It's the stories themselves that have captivated me, and the relationships are just a small bit of icing on the cake... maybe just a little decoration along the edges even, but definitely not a big deal.
Unless an ex-girlfriend can tell us something important to the plot, again, I couldn't care less. If there is an ex-girlfriend who was also a friend of Lily's, for instance, and if she could tell Harry more about his mother, Sirius, and perhaps James, then I would like to see her.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 19, 2004 8:57 pm (#1537 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
If, in the event of book 7's publication, your ship has crashed into an iceberg and sunk, how will you respond?- Eponine.
Well, I know that I am a H/Hr 'shipper, but I also know that H/Hr are the underdogs, so, I won't be that disappointed if it doesn't turn out to be that way. But I'd be very sad if it all ends up in a R/Hr 'ship. For some reason, I don't like Ron as much as I used to pre-GoF.
drippan - Jul 20, 2004 3:52 am (#1538 of 2916)[/b]
Prongs, "Do you think any of Sirius's ex-girlfriends will appear? He was described as "casually-handsome" somewhere and there was at least one girl, when he and James were sitting their OWLs, looking hopefully at him."
I think Sirius was a player. Can't see him having any type of serious relationship with any girls. He might have dated but on a more superficial level........
DripPan
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drippan - Jul 20, 2004 4:08 am (#1539 of 2916)
Tornedo, "For some reason, I don't like Ron as much as I used to pre-GoF."
Sure would like to hear your veiw on this.
Do you mind making a post in Ron's thread on the subject?
DripPan
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Star Crossed - Jul 20, 2004 5:26 am (#1540 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Same as drippan, fanfic probably converted me, but I don't see him having a serious girlfriend.
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Green Eyes - Jul 20, 2004 9:10 am (#1541 of 2916)
I haven't been coming to this thread for a while because like I said on my last post, it's pretty hopeless. People are going to find evidence for whatever they want to believe. But I'll give it another go for old times sake! I was flattered, Tornedo that you missed me:).
Of course I 'ship R/Hr and H/G but all the evidence thus far points to this...at least to R/Hr-including JKR's own words. The fact that she says she can't believe we haven't worked it out yet suggests that it is obvious. She would NOT tell us something isn't going to happen (H/Hr) and then turn around and have it happen. If she wanted us to not know who would be with whom, R/Hr wouldn't be so obvious and JKR wouldn't have answered all the questions that were listed a few posts ago in her chats. She's much more secretive about Ginny and Harry when asked those questions. I think it is true what was said a few posts back that a relationship between R/Hr is okay at this point because it's not about the main character - Harry and any 'ship Harry would have would affect the main storyline more.
Hermione is such a strong female character that in order for her to become Harry's love interest she would be diminished. She would have to completely change her personality. Ron loves her the way she is. They are Beatrice and Benedict in "As You Like it." Harry doesn't communicate well with her and vice versa. It's okay for this to be the case between friends but to apply this to a romantic relationship wouldn't work. This is also true for Harry and Cho...their communication is very awkward and usually leaves them both feeling angry and frustrated. Cho makes Harry feel in many ways like Hermione in the respect that both Cho and Hermione are aggressors with him (Pavarti, too led him around like a show dog at the Yule ball). Cho approaches him under the mistletoe and gets him to ask her to Hogsmeade, she then leads him to Madam Pudifoots etc. Hermione is always on top of Harry about grades/behavior etc. Harry clearly doesn't like this. He wants independence and a bit of control and even though Hermione is frequently right, her delivery is all wrong.
We have to look at the story in a holistic manner, not just a line here and there to prove our point. You can take each book by itself and then then all 5 books together and do this. In book one, Harry needs both Ron and Hermione to help him solve the mystery of the Sorcerer's Stone. They both help him with their own areas of expertise (Devils Snare-Hermione; Chess game - Ron). In the end, Harry faces Voldemort/Quirrell alone. Harry learns friendship.
Book two Harry goes on the rescue mission with Ron because Hermione is petrified. Ron is held back at the last moment and Harry proceeds to face TR/LV alone. (Ginny, is present but unconscious). The sleeping beauty imagery in the chamber scene suggests H/G ship for the first time IMHO. Movie images include Harry placing his hand on top of Ginny's - twice. Movie also suggests R/Hr for the first time. These two shots are not there accidentally because it would be a waste of movie time if it didn't mean anything. JKR and Steve Kloves even address this on COS DVD interview. Harry learns to extend his friendship to Ron beyond Ron to Ginny and goes to help her.
Book three: Harry goes to rescue Sirius with Hermione's help - Ron has been injured. Hermione is allowed to go through the whole adventure with Harry because Harry is NOT facing Voldemort in book three. We see Harry having feeings for Cho. In the movie R/Hr is stronly suggested in two scenes. Harry learns about Sirius and more about his parents from Lupin. He also learns more about himself.
In Book Four, things change. Harry is involved in the Triwizard Tournament tasks without any of his friends by his side. He does receive help from Cedric Diggory (the egg). Harry is starting to be separated from his two best friends who are ironically starting to show feelings for one another with the whole Yule Ball thing. Harry even notices this. In the end, Voldemort returns and Harry has to face him again alone, receiving help from the shadows of his parents (symbolic of the protection their deaths gave to him). Harry still likes Cho and even asks her to the ball but is turned down.
In book five...Harry is being further separated from his two best friends...not completely but subtlely. They are at Grimmauld place, they are made prefects, they ride on the train together, they are juxtaposed together when Harry is angry at them under any circumstances. Ron hesitates to jump to Harry's defence in front of Hermione and takes a "he can make his own decisions" stance when he must give an opinion. Harry hesitates to confide in them because he doesn't want to hear the lecture (from Hermione).
As for Ginny, she is being juxtaposed to R and Hr but also more importantly to Cho. Compare Harry's interactions with Cho and his interactions with Ginny. Compare Ginny's behavior (since her possession) to Cho's behavior since Cedric's death. (And for those who say Ginny has had more time, go back to POA and tell me if Ginny is crying in the loos in that book). Compare Ginny's Quidditch ability after only playing one season to Cho's. Compare Cho's loyalty to Harry (Marietta) and Ginny's (arranging for him to talk to Sirius, going with him to the ministry). Add to this how others are talking about Ginny, and Harry's interactions with R and Hr and the changes that have been slowly coming about in all the books in terms of their relationships.
Cho is falling apart in Harry's eyes and is done by the end of the book. Ginny's boyfriend is likewise done by the end of the book and is with Cho and both relationships end because of lack of loyalty to the other person. Harry/Cho because of Cho's defense of Marietta and Ginny/Michael because of Michael's attitude when Gryffindor wins over Ravenclaw. Michael didn't like Ginny enough to support her when she beat his house team. Cho likewise didn't love Harry enough to dump Marietta when she betrayed Harry. Ron and Hermione are leaning more to one another and are seen opposite Harry. Ginny is gaining in his esteem and the esteem of others. The groundwork is being laid for further interactions between Harry and Ginny - especially with R/Hr looming on the horizon.
Unlike Hermione, Ginny is slowly growing stronger and can then rise to be a suitable partner for Harry - eventually. It also makes sense as the books progress and Harry learns to trust/love/rely on people outside the trio that his love interest would be someone other than Hermione. JKR I believe, has slowly over the five books simmered Ginny's character until book five when she makes her debut of sorts. Hermione's character has been fully cooked since book one and has varied little in personality and depth over the five books. And this is a good thing. It just isn't good for those who want H/Hr. Ron has grown in his own personal abilities but like Hermione has been fully developed since the beginning. His behavior toward Harry has changed some in that he doesn't always rise to defend Harry in front of Hermione but this IMHO is because he loves Hermione and yet doesn't want to alienate Harry. The Arthur/Molly analogy works here.
I could go on and on citing more the interactions between H/Hr. But I've gone on enough. It's fun arguing with all of you but I find myself bored with the topic because it's all been said IMO. My personal opinion is that those who 'ship H/Hr will never believe otherwise - even with all the evidence against said 'ship. The red herring business is usually resolved within one book - Snape/Quirrel in book one, Harry/TRiddle/Malfoy as heir of Slytherin in book two. Sirius/Wormtail in book three, Moody/Crouch book four. Cho has been the longest lasting red herring and now she's gone. I can't say anything else!! I love you all, farewell!!!!
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Star Crossed - Jul 20, 2004 9:26 am (#1542 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Wow. Again, wow. That was a great essay. Sums up everything! You even might have pulled me back into the Harry/Ginny ship. Maybe. I think you should see if you can get it posted on the Lexicon.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 20, 2004 9:36 am (#1543 of 2916)
That was excellent, Green Eyes. I agree with you about the boredom factor. I also agree with Star that you should see about getting it on the Lexicon.
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thetheatre62442 - Jul 20, 2004 1:11 pm (#1544 of 2916)
That was brilliant! I never, ever thought I would be a Harry/Ginny 'shipper until I jsut read that. I've always been a Ron/Hermione, but you've really put it into perspective for all the H/Hr 'shippers out there! Well done!
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Maarcus Humill - Jul 20, 2004 1:59 pm (#1545 of 2916)
I want Harry and Hermione to get together but for awhile I have seen all the evidence stacked against them and I'm starting to believe that it will be Ron and Hermione. But I havn't seen much as in the way of Hermione showing feelings toward Ron. I think just from CoS at the end, and PoA(I havn't seen it but I have heard stuff and somebody's picture thingy showed some clips) have I seen Hermione liking Ron. Anybody have any other evidence?
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Padfoot - Jul 20, 2004 2:31 pm (#1546 of 2916)
So, how would everyone here react to the sinking of their beloved ship? -Eponine
Well I really only care about R/H getting together. Anyone else's pairing could go in a completely different direction and be fine with me. As I still have not made up my mind about Harry's 'ship, I am looking forward to JKR's surprises on that one.
Do you think any of Sirius's ex-girlfriends will appear? –Prongs
Not likely as I do not see how it will progress the story any. I would dearly love to know more about Sirius and his past. But his past girlfriends I could care less about. Now if he was married...
I read it for Snape and Sinistra getting together. -Star Crossed
Snape and Sinistra? Really? Do we know anything about her?
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Star Crossed - Jul 20, 2004 2:44 pm (#1547 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It's what we don't know about her that makes it interesting. And for evidence, her name seems rather interesting. Sinistra comes from sinister, and Snape is often described as sinister. Plus, Sinistra star is in the snake constellation.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 20, 2004 4:18 pm (#1548 of 2916)
Let it snow!
drippan: I think Sirius was a player. Can't see him having any type of serious relationship with any girls. He might have dated but on a more superficial level........
Padfoot: But his past girlfriends I could care less about. Now if he was married...
I don't know why I find the idea of Sirius as a player funny. I guess because I know someone who's personality is so like Sirius's. He grew up with my brothers and they spent most of their youth going "hey where did he go", just in time for him to run by screaming "run guys" and to know that police would soon be in hot persuit. He's a nice amiable guy. 6'4". He has long hair pulled back in a pony-tail. Wears a leather jacket. Drives a harley. Has a few tatoos. He seems, at first glance to be the average "biker-type" guy. His personality is sooo like Sirius's, it's really scary. You'd never guess that he's married (to a little 5 foot tall woman, who also drives a Harley and is obsessed with Scooby-Doo), a volunteer fireman, a city-councilman (his wife is deputy mayor), and, occassionally, a volunteer boy scout leader. I've heard the argument that Sirius couldn't have been married because he was obviously the archetypal bachelor, but everytime I read Sirius, I see my brother's friend. I think Sirius could easily have been married, he would've just needed to find a like minded woman. I'm sure there might've been one in all of England. I'm not saying it's probable, just possible....
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haymoni - Jul 20, 2004 7:05 pm (#1549 of 2916)
Sorry, but I want Sirius to be single.
I want him to be the height of cool forever. I want him to break hearts left and right.
I want him to stand up for his best friend at his wedding, but say to himself, "Better you than me, mate!"
I want Sirius the Studmuffin.
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Ladybug220 - Jul 20, 2004 8:04 pm (#1550 of 2916)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Haymoni, you really made me laugh with the Studmuffin title - I am not going to quite look at Sirius the same way now.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I have heard that there are many examples of Hermione showing that she likes Ron. Yet I have not seen many. It may be ignorance, but could somebody please give me some instances of Hermione showing that she likes Ron?
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Sir Tornado - Jul 18, 2004 9:02 pm (#1502 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
No, there aren't any canon evidence to point to the fact that Hermione likes Ron; other than Her blushes when he mentions Vicky. That may be attributable to different reasons.
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Maarcus Humill - Jul 18, 2004 9:19 pm (#1503 of 2916)
What I think is funny is that I read that when harry tells Ron and Hermone about his kiss with Cho that Hermione kind of feels jealous or something by the way she talks. But, at the same time, she was writing her very long letter to Krum. I just thught I should post that because I thing that its rather funny.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 18, 2004 9:47 pm (#1504 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Whether Hermione like Ron or what seems to be all in the interpretations, at this point at least. Many think the letter writing is a clue to her trying to make Ron jealous (she's trying to get someone's attention or it isn't that personal of a letter because, if it were, she wouldn't be writing it in the common room). Some think her responses during that scene have more to do with the way Ron is acting and nothing at all to do with Harry. As I said, all in the interpretation, at this point....
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The One - Jul 19, 2004 2:17 am (#1505 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
S. E. Jones: About your theory about Harry being the lonely hero that will meet the Dark Lord alone.
Yes, in most of the books Harry are alone at the final showdown. But what all the books have shown us is that Harry is nothing by dead on his own. In PS he would never have reached the final showdown if his friends had not helped him, and not survived if Dumbledore had not arrived. Similar points can be made for all the books. While I do expect him to be alone for the very final showdown, his friends and supporters will stay with him on the road towards it.
Love has been a main theme for every book. Love between friends, love between parents and children, the teachers love, or lack of love for their students. Why should not, as the children grow older, also the romantic love between the Hero and his woman turn out to be important?
I do not agree that Harry removes himself from his friends. He has removed himself somewhat from Ron, that is true, but despite all his anger and frustration, I believe Harry and Hermione to be closer than ever before.
And I believe that the girl in his life will be Hermione, partly because of my belief that they are the hero and the heroine that will go towards the final showdown together, but also partly because then a romance can be written in without distracting to much from the main plot. It does not do to spend 2/3 of the book saving the world with Hermione and 1/3 of the book courting Susan Bones or Ginny or whoever.
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Gryffindor Ghost - Jul 19, 2004 7:01 am (#1506 of 2916)
Bravo!
I am with you, Tornedo, The One, etc. of the H/Hr 'ship. Without people like you, the H/Hr 'ship would've sank ages ago.
Keep the arguments going, and give the R/Hr shippers a run for their money (and evidences). H/Hr rules!
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 7:12 am (#1507 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes, in most of the books Harry are alone at the final showdown. But what all the books have shown us is that Harry is nothing by dead on his own. In PS he would never have reached the final showdown if his friends had not helped him, and not survived if Dumbledore had not arrived. Similar points can be made for all the books. While I do expect him to be alone for the very final showdown, his friends and supporters will stay with him on the road towards it.
Exactly. That's what we are saying. He will still have Ron and Hermione's help, even if they start dating, but he will be alone at the final battle.
Love has been a main theme for every book. Love between friends, love between parents and children, the teachers love, or lack of love for their students. Why should not, as the children grow older, also the romantic love between the Hero and his woman turn out to be important?
I don't see how it could serve as important. It would change nothing if Harry wanted to save her, if she was a friend or if he loved her. Either way, he would save her. People seem to think you only save the people you love, but Harry often saves his friends, and that does not mean he loves them.
I do not agree that Harry removes himself from his friends. He has removed himself somewhat from Ron, that is true, but despite all his anger and frustration, I believe Harry and Hermione to be closer than ever before.
How? Harry gets more annoyed with her than ever before, so how does this make them closer? If they were closer, she would know him better than to do certain things she does. Such as ask to borrow Hedwig. She could have easily asked to borrow Pig. Instead, she bothered Harry who was already upset. But maybe you mean near the end of the book where she tells him Harry just likes saving people? That didn't go over well either. Harry gets upset. Yes, it is true, but she could have said it nicer. She did not have to say it the way she did. If they were closer, Harry would have thought about it. But he didn't. He was just sick and tired of her pestering him. So he agreed to quickly check. Nothing more.
And I believe that the girl in his life will be Hermione, partly because of my belief that they are the hero and the heroine that will go towards the final showdown together, but also partly because then a romance can be written in without distracting to much from the main plot. It does not do to spend 2/3 of the book saving the world with Hermione and 1/3 of the book courting Susan Bones or Ginny or whoever.
And where would Ron be in this equation? Licking his wounds?
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Crookshanks - Jul 19, 2004 7:24 am (#1508 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 19, 2004 7:46 am
4th Indian here from Bangalore ....
Until I read this thread,I hadn't bothered about 'ships at all,so I decided to weigh the pros & cons of the 2 prominent pairs - H/Hr , R/Hr
There are people who argue taking PS/SS,CoS,PoA into account,but I think 13 is too tender an age to really think. GoF & OoP are books we need to be looking at.
In favour of H/Hr - No doubt Hermione feels jealous of Harry's kiss with Cho in OoP.She seems to understand every emotion Harry experiences & certainly cares more for his emotions than those of Ron. She is the only girl who can take in Harry's emotional outbursts without feeling offended, except on a few occasions. There is a subconscious Hermione in Harry which has now become a very important part of Harry's conscience,and shall probably be more so after having not heeded her words of practising Occlumency & heading off for DoM for the 'saving-life thing'. She provides an excellent opportunity for Harry to release his pent up emotions by organizing the interview. I read somewhere in the list the list that Hermione mightn't have realized that Cho & Harry's date ended early, but come on, no one wants to have a half-an-hour date on valentines' day,and if the date is short,it's very obvious why. I agree with someone saying that she was telling him how a girl's mind works just to make him read hers. AN INTERESTING FACT is the following - How does Viktor Krum know that Harry knows more than him (as Hermione tells Ron during the DA formation) unless someone ahs told him ? Krum & Harry met only in the Triwizard. Task 1, Harry used a Summoning Charm which anyone could have.Task 2,he was way ahead of Krum & Task 3, Krum was under Moody's imperious curse. So it's obvious Hermione's boasted to Krum about what Harry could do. Now why would a girl mention a second boy while writing to a boy, unless he's very important to her ? It's also true that Harry's a little distanced from the others in OoP, but that's because of his detentions with Umbridge every other day, but I couldn't help noticing the fact that as my compatriot Tornedo mentions, Hermione has more page time than Ron, as well as , Hermione having more page time with Harry trying to help him out of his distresses & dreams rather than with Ron. The cute freckles were in comparison to Eloise Midgen's acne. Obviously freckles wins over acne. We do see a lot more physical interaction between Harry & Hermione than between Ron & Hermione. If there's been someone who could control Harry temper, it's been Hermione, be it after his name came out of the GoF and was cut up with Ron or when she dares to say Voldemort's name to calm him down. In essence Hermione's getting closer to Harry, might be unknowingly, but she'll obviously place him above Ron after getting to know the prophecy. She never gives up to stop Harry from doing something she doesn't want him to,but Harry does it, but never does she gets cut up with him when he doesn't heed her.
We still dont know what's on her mind .... Now, did she desire to meet Harry on purpose on Valentines day ? It's obvious that a girl would hate her valentine giving some other girl a chunk of his time. Why did she make it mid-day & not 3 PM ? (they've stayed until 3:30 PM on the weekend they met Sirius in GoF). She's always in tears whenever Harry shouts at her. Why ? Why not with Ron ? She always sits next to Harry in class. Why not Ron ? She asks HArry to help her with elf hats & not Ron, fully knowing that Harry & Ron both desist SPEW equally.And Harry conceals from her that Dobby is the only elf taking the clothes away just to keep her spirits high.She expresses a certain level of confidence in Harry (the prefect scene/DA classes/SPEW etc.). The normal rule-abiding Hermione proposes the DA which later becomes the only thing Harry looks forward to.She monitors Harry closely in Snape's classes. The list goes on ........ I see sense in some people claiming a H/Hr 'ship. (Hermione never spoke about Sirius after his death. Ron stopped her. If Luna's enquiry could relieve Harry,Hermione's would have been more than welcome I guess).
In Favour of R/Hr -
Prima facie JKR's 'platonic friendship' statement. Universal truths are always used in the present tense (Sun rises in the east etc..). So may be R/Hr's possible. Then we have this PoA scene where Hermione finds comfort in Ron's hug. JKR & Cuaron wouldn't want it if it wasn't important.(We know the story's jeopardised but still ...). The word has come out but the JKR who says she enjoys arguments wouldn't give it away in an interview, would she ? The philosophy that people who care fight a lot is not false as well. Then comes Ron vs Krum. Hermione has gone pink even when she's felt angry, I don't reckon where though. But the GoF incident wasn't in that mood. Harry's a slightly silent character, by and large,(may be a good listener), and Ron & Hermione do most of the talking.They spend a lot of time together whenver Harry's gone for Quidditch sessions or detentions. Then we have Hermione's kiss which sends Ron to cloud-6 if not Cloud-9 as compared to the kiss Hermione gave Harry at the end of GoF, whose effects are concealed. Hermione makes this statement "Harry, you're worse than Ron....no infact you're not", when Harry says she's not ugly.(what does that mean ?) Hermione asks Harry to patch up with Ron in GoF probably fearing that she might sever her relationship with Ron..... so on & so forth...
So far R/Hr = H/Hr from Hermione's point of view. While Ron has realised some feelings for Hermione (inspite of frequent bickering etc..), Harry's so far been too disturbed to realise emotional feelings for her other than her being his best friend. Without peace of mind, he can't cast himself beyond physical attraction (think Cho), but Sirius's death will surely make us see a new Harry,who will probably think about the people who can fill up the void space in his heart,the obvious candidates on the list are Hermione & Ron, probably Luna & Ginny to some extent. May be at the end of book 7,his life would still be in a turmoil, which would call for the necessity of a girl who can really understand him & help him out of it, and my choice would be (over others by a large margin) Hermione, just as she's done in many occasions earlier. From Ron's point of view, Hermione's the only reason he's able to pass subjects or say,scrape thru them & she's the only one who doesn't treat him as Harry's sidekick, but something more than that. Save for JKR's statements, I've would have voted for H/Hr, but I'm forced to lean towards R/Hr & probably H/L. But you can never say,not many could guess the climaxes she's come up with, and as someone rightly pointed out, if she wants H/Hr, so will it be. But,the purpose of the book is more than teenage infatuations so let the purpose be upheld. (I stamp my foot down on people who say Harry is going to alienate himself from Ron & Hermione if R/Hr comes thru.It's not wrong to say that it's mostly because of Hermione & Ron that he's able to do whatever he does.)
Let's just say, JKR will have the last say, be prepared for anything then....
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Crookshanks - Jul 19, 2004 7:55 am (#1509 of 2916)
Wanted to add this....with a request to bear with me for a few more lines.... This is probably a little more important than what was written above.
I read that Ron's character has it's foundation in a very close friend of JKR's by name Sean, if I'm right & that Hermione's character reminds her pretty much of her childhood. She also claims that what she adores beyond anything is courage, something Harry has in plenty & certainly in a greater measure than Ron. I believe that the psychology of any author or a script-writer is to associate him/herself with one character & reserve what he/she expects out of his/her dream-man/woman for the protagonist who will obviously be the sort of person who will possess qualities the author prizes most.Here, undoubtedly it's Harry. Given the fact that JKR & Sean are still nothing beyond 'platonic friends',(again as what I've read) I reckon the author would not end it with a R/Hr unless there was.... (let me not comment further lest JKR gets cross with me.... it's just my opinion.Possible that JKR differs). Yeah, may be a few dates & that's it,they break....
let's see,but seriously I don't wanna see H/Pansy , H/Milli & probably H/L as well.... Ginny's better. H/Hr will be the best while R/Hr isn't all that bad ..... (Wonder what Harry's Potions OWL willbe ? T ? )
Whew !!
PS - If the above info is a fallacy, PLEASE FORGIVE ME.....
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 19, 2004 8:41 am (#1510 of 2916)
"But maybe you mean near the end of the book where she tells him Harry just likes saving people? That didn't go over well either."
How about closer to the end, in the battle at the Department of Mysteries, when Harry and Hermione kept saving each other's lives?
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tracie1976 - Jul 19, 2004 8:57 am (#1511 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
How about closer to the end, in the battle at the Department of Mysteries, when Harry and Hermione kept saving each other's lives?
In a R/Hr ship view, why did JKR put Harry, Hermione, and Neville fighting DEs together with Harry and Hermione saving each other like that? I mean if she did want Ron and Hermione together wouldn't it have made a little more sense to put Ron and Hermione saving each other or by making Ginny go along with Harry so Harry could be saving Ginny?
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Catherine - Jul 19, 2004 9:14 am (#1512 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tracie wrote, "In a R/Hr ship view, why did JKR put Harry, Hermione, and Neville fighting DEs together with Harry and Hermione saving each other like that? I mean if she did want Ron and Hermione together wouldn't it have made a little more sense to put Ron and Hermione saving each other or by making Ginny go along with Harry so Harry could be saving Ginny? "
Because JKR has already done that! :-)
Ron helped save Hermione in SS, and Harry saved Ginny in CoS.
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tracie1976 - Jul 19, 2004 9:29 am (#1513 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Because JKR has already done that! :-)
Ron helped save Hermione in SS, and Harry saved Ginny in CoS
Well, wouldn't it even make more sence to keep that up in the following books? Plus didn't Ron not want to go help Harry with saving Hermione from the troll?
pg. 173 SS: "I've just thought---Hermione."
"What about her?"
"She doesn't know about the troll."
Ron bit his lip.
"Oh, all right," he snapped. "But Percy'd better not see us."
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Catherine - Jul 19, 2004 9:40 am (#1514 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Can we really infer future romantic relationships by who saves whom?
For instance, Harry has a "saving people thing," and he's saved Ron, Hermione, Sirius, Ginny, Cedric Diggory, Arthur Weasley, Peter Pettigrew, and Buckbeak! I think some of these individuals are not really options for romantic attachments. ;-D
(Note, I was mostly kidding in my previous, Tracie; I sure wasn't picking on you or your post!)
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Eponine - Jul 19, 2004 11:17 am (#1515 of 2916)
I just came across an interesting essay.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I know that most likely, nothing will convince H/H-er's to convert to R/H-er's and vice versa. The thing about shipping is we can argue until we're blue in the face or have broken fingers from all of our typing, but most of the counter arguments don't change our minds. This essay, while probably not convincing anyone to board a different ship, should at least be food for thought.
Oh, by the way, it is extremely looooong!
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 19, 2004 11:24 am (#1516 of 2916)
The point is, JKR has said no one has figured out what the romantic relationships will be. Hence, its probably not Harry/Hermione, Ron/Hermione, Harry/Ginny, or Uncle Vernon/Umbridge. It's probably something we haven't guessed yet.
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Magika - Jul 19, 2004 11:43 am (#1517 of 2916)
Well, actually, JKR has said: "I can't believe that some of you haven't figured it out yet", when asked who Hermione's going to end up with. But you're still partly right, because she's said that we haven't guessed the right future for Harry...
I'm holding a thread to Ron/Hermione and Harry being single forever.
-Si-
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Sir Tornado - Jul 19, 2004 12:24 pm (#1518 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
4th Indian here from Bangalore .... --Crookshanks.
Actually, Crookshanks, you are the 6th Indian. Dracoallthrway, Anuradha, Devika, Nidhi and Myself are the other five. 6 in a country of 1 billion? I now know exactly what being "one in a million" means By the way, I agree with most of your well, lets call it mini-essay. You can guess which part it is? H/Hr of course. Anyway...
Now, I think I can explain Hermione's mood when Harry told her and Ron about his kiss with Cho. She was frowning at that time. Frowning can means one of these two things.
1) She was unhappy. That means she really likes Harry and got jealous.
2) She was thinking hard. Now, I reckon she was thinking how exactly she was supposed to break Harry and Cho. There's no way she would be thinking of anything else. Why would she break up Harry-Cho? Because she likes Harry herself.
Either way it's H/Hr.
By the way, The One, I agree with your last post #1505. Gryffindor Ghost, thanks for the encouragement Plus, I now declare that I agree with anyone who is a H/Hr 'shipper.
--Thanks--
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 12:48 pm (#1519 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Either way it's H/Hr.- Tornedo.
Actually, I've got some reasoning for Hermione's frown. The whole passage goes like this.
Numbly surprised, Harry nodded. Ron sniggered, breaking off when Hermione caught his eye.
"So -er- what did she want?" he asked in a mock casual voice.
She -" Harry began, rather hoarsely; he cleared his throat and tried again. "She -er-"
"Did you kiss?" asked Hermione briskly
Ron sat so fast he sent his ink bottle flying all over the rug. Disreagarding this completely, he stared avidly at Harry.
"Well?" he demanded
Harry looked from Ron's expression of mingled curiosity and hilarity to Hermione's slight frown, and nodded,"
To me, Hermione's slight frown was because of Ron's "expression of mingled curiosity". He was 15, going on sixteen. Hermione's frown was because he acted unmaturely, unlike herself. But these things are picked up in different ways by people with different views.
And the word "briskly" has brought oh-so many arguments about Hermione's feelings.
It means "to quicken or to hurry up". Exactly what she may have been doing to Harry to get the information out of him. Not in a bad way, just because she was dying to know. Or to be brisk means to be off-hand, casual in manner. Like Ron, she may have been faking a "casual" attitude.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 19, 2004 2:18 pm (#1520 of 2916)
"The thing about shipping is we can argue until we're blue in the face or have broken fingers from all of our typing"
...or until the seventh book comes out. I'm sure that it all the 'ships will be either made clear by then, or made irrelevant by then...
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Eponine - Jul 19, 2004 4:19 pm (#1521 of 2916)
Paulus Maximus, yes I did mean or until the 7th book is out.
I did come across an interesting question on another web site though. I would be interested to hear people's response. If, in the event of book 7's publication, your ship has crashed into an iceberg and sunk, how will you respond? I'm asking everyone, not just one ship or another. The people on this other site (can't remember which, sorry) had several answers. Some said they would accept it, some said they would write fanfic to correct JKR's misguided wrongs, some said they would stop reading the books, and some said they would hold protests at their local Barnes and Noble.
So, how would everyone here react to the sinking of their beloved ship?
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timrew - Jul 19, 2004 4:20 pm (#1522 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
From being an ardent Ron/Hermione shipper, I can only see Harry/Hermione coming about if Ron dies.
And the more I read these 'ships', and the more I read the books, the more I can see this coming about.
I would love for it to end up Harry/Ginny; but JKR has told us that there will be more deaths (of important characters) to come.
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 4:23 pm (#1523 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Great question. If R/Hr didn't happen, I think I'd avoid the forum for days, then create a new name, so no one knew I was wrong.
I think I'd accept it, and probably wonder how JKR could pull it off. If Snape/Sinistra didn't happen, I'd cry for weeks.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 19, 2004 4:31 pm (#1524 of 2916)
This reminds me... does anyone have the JKR quote where she said no one in the trio would die?
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 4:43 pm (#1525 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Luke, JKR would never, never say that.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 19, 2004 5:05 pm (#1526 of 2916)
I could have sworn she said that in some interview... but then again, I used to get my information from some fairly unreliable fan sites. If she actually didn't say that, then that removes a lot of my cynicism about books 6 & 7.
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 5:33 pm (#1527 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
If, in the event of book 7's publication, your ship has crashed into an iceberg and sunk, how will you respond?- Eponine.
It wouldn't be a big thing for me. I prefer some 'ships *cough* H/G, R/Hr *cough* but it wouldn't really matter if my predictions turned out to be wrong, even though they have made my fingers sore due to the typing out of arguments for them!
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S.E. Jones - Jul 19, 2004 5:56 pm (#1528 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I have to echo Prong's comments here. I see some 'ships as being more practical and more obvious than others, but I would hardly be destroyed if they didn't come about. I don't read the books for the 'shipping. I read them for the great battle of good vs evil she's protraying and the great storytelling used to weave the tale together. The 'ships are just a small thread on a far larger tapestry for me.
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Eponine - Jul 19, 2004 6:00 pm (#1529 of 2916)
I wouldn't be devastated if the ship I prefer didn't happen. I would continue to read the books and enjoy them just as much as before. Shipping is such an emotionally charged argument, I was interested in people's reactions.
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Star Crossed - Jul 19, 2004 6:11 pm (#1530 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And I now feel this tall:
. compared to my normal five foot.
I do read the books, other than for R/Hr getting together! Sort of.
Kidding, I swear.
I read it for Snape and Sinistra getting together.
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total hatred - Jul 19, 2004 6:22 pm (#1531 of 2916)
I don't mind if my ship will not prosper. All I care is that I have a good time arguing with all of you.
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coolbeans3131 - Jul 19, 2004 6:29 pm (#1532 of 2916)
I will admit that I would be disappointed if H/H didn't happen.
What I think is that if either R/H or H/H happens in book 6, their fans are going to have a hard time not gloating, and the others will be a bit annoyed and defensive. You know there will be some "I told you so, you idiots!" idiots, who won't be able to hold it in.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 19, 2004 6:44 pm (#1533 of 2916)
Let it snow!
coolbeans3131: You know there will be some "I told you so, you idiots!" idiots, who won't be able to hold it in.
Well there had better not be any of those on this forum..... All in fun is one thing, but in spite, to tease, or to get a rise out of isn't allowed.....
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drippan - Jul 19, 2004 7:15 pm (#1534 of 2916)
After reading this forum, I have decided to keep an open mind for future 'ships!
I was a R/Hr 'ship before coming to the Lexagon but there have been so many good arguments for each side (H/Hr and R/Hr).
JKR, do what you must but do me a favor, keep it suspenseful until the last chapter of Book 7......I like reading this forum as much as you!!
DripPan
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Chris. - Jul 19, 2004 8:24 pm (#1535 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Just wanted to bring this thread around from the R/Hr V H/Hr...
Do you think any of Sirius's ex-girlfriends will appear? He was described as "casually-handsome" somewhere and there was at least one girl, when he and James were sitting their OWLs, looking hopefully at him.
Ideas?...
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Weeny Owl - Jul 19, 2004 8:30 pm (#1536 of 2916)
I agree with Sarah and Prongs. Relationships are fun to debate, but I really couldn't care less if my favorite pairings happen. It's the stories themselves that have captivated me, and the relationships are just a small bit of icing on the cake... maybe just a little decoration along the edges even, but definitely not a big deal.
Unless an ex-girlfriend can tell us something important to the plot, again, I couldn't care less. If there is an ex-girlfriend who was also a friend of Lily's, for instance, and if she could tell Harry more about his mother, Sirius, and perhaps James, then I would like to see her.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 19, 2004 8:57 pm (#1537 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
If, in the event of book 7's publication, your ship has crashed into an iceberg and sunk, how will you respond?- Eponine.
Well, I know that I am a H/Hr 'shipper, but I also know that H/Hr are the underdogs, so, I won't be that disappointed if it doesn't turn out to be that way. But I'd be very sad if it all ends up in a R/Hr 'ship. For some reason, I don't like Ron as much as I used to pre-GoF.
drippan - Jul 20, 2004 3:52 am (#1538 of 2916)[/b]
Prongs, "Do you think any of Sirius's ex-girlfriends will appear? He was described as "casually-handsome" somewhere and there was at least one girl, when he and James were sitting their OWLs, looking hopefully at him."
I think Sirius was a player. Can't see him having any type of serious relationship with any girls. He might have dated but on a more superficial level........
DripPan
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drippan - Jul 20, 2004 4:08 am (#1539 of 2916)
Tornedo, "For some reason, I don't like Ron as much as I used to pre-GoF."
Sure would like to hear your veiw on this.
Do you mind making a post in Ron's thread on the subject?
DripPan
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Star Crossed - Jul 20, 2004 5:26 am (#1540 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Same as drippan, fanfic probably converted me, but I don't see him having a serious girlfriend.
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Green Eyes - Jul 20, 2004 9:10 am (#1541 of 2916)
I haven't been coming to this thread for a while because like I said on my last post, it's pretty hopeless. People are going to find evidence for whatever they want to believe. But I'll give it another go for old times sake! I was flattered, Tornedo that you missed me:).
Of course I 'ship R/Hr and H/G but all the evidence thus far points to this...at least to R/Hr-including JKR's own words. The fact that she says she can't believe we haven't worked it out yet suggests that it is obvious. She would NOT tell us something isn't going to happen (H/Hr) and then turn around and have it happen. If she wanted us to not know who would be with whom, R/Hr wouldn't be so obvious and JKR wouldn't have answered all the questions that were listed a few posts ago in her chats. She's much more secretive about Ginny and Harry when asked those questions. I think it is true what was said a few posts back that a relationship between R/Hr is okay at this point because it's not about the main character - Harry and any 'ship Harry would have would affect the main storyline more.
Hermione is such a strong female character that in order for her to become Harry's love interest she would be diminished. She would have to completely change her personality. Ron loves her the way she is. They are Beatrice and Benedict in "As You Like it." Harry doesn't communicate well with her and vice versa. It's okay for this to be the case between friends but to apply this to a romantic relationship wouldn't work. This is also true for Harry and Cho...their communication is very awkward and usually leaves them both feeling angry and frustrated. Cho makes Harry feel in many ways like Hermione in the respect that both Cho and Hermione are aggressors with him (Pavarti, too led him around like a show dog at the Yule ball). Cho approaches him under the mistletoe and gets him to ask her to Hogsmeade, she then leads him to Madam Pudifoots etc. Hermione is always on top of Harry about grades/behavior etc. Harry clearly doesn't like this. He wants independence and a bit of control and even though Hermione is frequently right, her delivery is all wrong.
We have to look at the story in a holistic manner, not just a line here and there to prove our point. You can take each book by itself and then then all 5 books together and do this. In book one, Harry needs both Ron and Hermione to help him solve the mystery of the Sorcerer's Stone. They both help him with their own areas of expertise (Devils Snare-Hermione; Chess game - Ron). In the end, Harry faces Voldemort/Quirrell alone. Harry learns friendship.
Book two Harry goes on the rescue mission with Ron because Hermione is petrified. Ron is held back at the last moment and Harry proceeds to face TR/LV alone. (Ginny, is present but unconscious). The sleeping beauty imagery in the chamber scene suggests H/G ship for the first time IMHO. Movie images include Harry placing his hand on top of Ginny's - twice. Movie also suggests R/Hr for the first time. These two shots are not there accidentally because it would be a waste of movie time if it didn't mean anything. JKR and Steve Kloves even address this on COS DVD interview. Harry learns to extend his friendship to Ron beyond Ron to Ginny and goes to help her.
Book three: Harry goes to rescue Sirius with Hermione's help - Ron has been injured. Hermione is allowed to go through the whole adventure with Harry because Harry is NOT facing Voldemort in book three. We see Harry having feeings for Cho. In the movie R/Hr is stronly suggested in two scenes. Harry learns about Sirius and more about his parents from Lupin. He also learns more about himself.
In Book Four, things change. Harry is involved in the Triwizard Tournament tasks without any of his friends by his side. He does receive help from Cedric Diggory (the egg). Harry is starting to be separated from his two best friends who are ironically starting to show feelings for one another with the whole Yule Ball thing. Harry even notices this. In the end, Voldemort returns and Harry has to face him again alone, receiving help from the shadows of his parents (symbolic of the protection their deaths gave to him). Harry still likes Cho and even asks her to the ball but is turned down.
In book five...Harry is being further separated from his two best friends...not completely but subtlely. They are at Grimmauld place, they are made prefects, they ride on the train together, they are juxtaposed together when Harry is angry at them under any circumstances. Ron hesitates to jump to Harry's defence in front of Hermione and takes a "he can make his own decisions" stance when he must give an opinion. Harry hesitates to confide in them because he doesn't want to hear the lecture (from Hermione).
As for Ginny, she is being juxtaposed to R and Hr but also more importantly to Cho. Compare Harry's interactions with Cho and his interactions with Ginny. Compare Ginny's behavior (since her possession) to Cho's behavior since Cedric's death. (And for those who say Ginny has had more time, go back to POA and tell me if Ginny is crying in the loos in that book). Compare Ginny's Quidditch ability after only playing one season to Cho's. Compare Cho's loyalty to Harry (Marietta) and Ginny's (arranging for him to talk to Sirius, going with him to the ministry). Add to this how others are talking about Ginny, and Harry's interactions with R and Hr and the changes that have been slowly coming about in all the books in terms of their relationships.
Cho is falling apart in Harry's eyes and is done by the end of the book. Ginny's boyfriend is likewise done by the end of the book and is with Cho and both relationships end because of lack of loyalty to the other person. Harry/Cho because of Cho's defense of Marietta and Ginny/Michael because of Michael's attitude when Gryffindor wins over Ravenclaw. Michael didn't like Ginny enough to support her when she beat his house team. Cho likewise didn't love Harry enough to dump Marietta when she betrayed Harry. Ron and Hermione are leaning more to one another and are seen opposite Harry. Ginny is gaining in his esteem and the esteem of others. The groundwork is being laid for further interactions between Harry and Ginny - especially with R/Hr looming on the horizon.
Unlike Hermione, Ginny is slowly growing stronger and can then rise to be a suitable partner for Harry - eventually. It also makes sense as the books progress and Harry learns to trust/love/rely on people outside the trio that his love interest would be someone other than Hermione. JKR I believe, has slowly over the five books simmered Ginny's character until book five when she makes her debut of sorts. Hermione's character has been fully cooked since book one and has varied little in personality and depth over the five books. And this is a good thing. It just isn't good for those who want H/Hr. Ron has grown in his own personal abilities but like Hermione has been fully developed since the beginning. His behavior toward Harry has changed some in that he doesn't always rise to defend Harry in front of Hermione but this IMHO is because he loves Hermione and yet doesn't want to alienate Harry. The Arthur/Molly analogy works here.
I could go on and on citing more the interactions between H/Hr. But I've gone on enough. It's fun arguing with all of you but I find myself bored with the topic because it's all been said IMO. My personal opinion is that those who 'ship H/Hr will never believe otherwise - even with all the evidence against said 'ship. The red herring business is usually resolved within one book - Snape/Quirrel in book one, Harry/TRiddle/Malfoy as heir of Slytherin in book two. Sirius/Wormtail in book three, Moody/Crouch book four. Cho has been the longest lasting red herring and now she's gone. I can't say anything else!! I love you all, farewell!!!!
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Star Crossed - Jul 20, 2004 9:26 am (#1542 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Wow. Again, wow. That was a great essay. Sums up everything! You even might have pulled me back into the Harry/Ginny ship. Maybe. I think you should see if you can get it posted on the Lexicon.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 20, 2004 9:36 am (#1543 of 2916)
That was excellent, Green Eyes. I agree with you about the boredom factor. I also agree with Star that you should see about getting it on the Lexicon.
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thetheatre62442 - Jul 20, 2004 1:11 pm (#1544 of 2916)
That was brilliant! I never, ever thought I would be a Harry/Ginny 'shipper until I jsut read that. I've always been a Ron/Hermione, but you've really put it into perspective for all the H/Hr 'shippers out there! Well done!
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Maarcus Humill - Jul 20, 2004 1:59 pm (#1545 of 2916)
I want Harry and Hermione to get together but for awhile I have seen all the evidence stacked against them and I'm starting to believe that it will be Ron and Hermione. But I havn't seen much as in the way of Hermione showing feelings toward Ron. I think just from CoS at the end, and PoA(I havn't seen it but I have heard stuff and somebody's picture thingy showed some clips) have I seen Hermione liking Ron. Anybody have any other evidence?
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Padfoot - Jul 20, 2004 2:31 pm (#1546 of 2916)
So, how would everyone here react to the sinking of their beloved ship? -Eponine
Well I really only care about R/H getting together. Anyone else's pairing could go in a completely different direction and be fine with me. As I still have not made up my mind about Harry's 'ship, I am looking forward to JKR's surprises on that one.
Do you think any of Sirius's ex-girlfriends will appear? –Prongs
Not likely as I do not see how it will progress the story any. I would dearly love to know more about Sirius and his past. But his past girlfriends I could care less about. Now if he was married...
I read it for Snape and Sinistra getting together.
-Star Crossed Snape and Sinistra? Really? Do we know anything about her?
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Star Crossed - Jul 20, 2004 2:44 pm (#1547 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It's what we don't know about her that makes it interesting. And for evidence, her name seems rather interesting. Sinistra comes from sinister, and Snape is often described as sinister. Plus, Sinistra star is in the snake constellation.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 20, 2004 4:18 pm (#1548 of 2916)
Let it snow!
drippan: I think Sirius was a player. Can't see him having any type of serious relationship with any girls. He might have dated but on a more superficial level........
Padfoot: But his past girlfriends I could care less about. Now if he was married...
I don't know why I find the idea of Sirius as a player funny. I guess because I know someone who's personality is so like Sirius's. He grew up with my brothers and they spent most of their youth going "hey where did he go", just in time for him to run by screaming "run guys" and to know that police would soon be in hot persuit. He's a nice amiable guy. 6'4". He has long hair pulled back in a pony-tail. Wears a leather jacket. Drives a harley. Has a few tatoos. He seems, at first glance to be the average "biker-type" guy. His personality is sooo like Sirius's, it's really scary. You'd never guess that he's married (to a little 5 foot tall woman, who also drives a Harley and is obsessed with Scooby-Doo), a volunteer fireman, a city-councilman (his wife is deputy mayor), and, occassionally, a volunteer boy scout leader. I've heard the argument that Sirius couldn't have been married because he was obviously the archetypal bachelor, but everytime I read Sirius, I see my brother's friend. I think Sirius could easily have been married, he would've just needed to find a like minded woman. I'm sure there might've been one in all of England. I'm not saying it's probable, just possible....
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haymoni - Jul 20, 2004 7:05 pm (#1549 of 2916)
Sorry, but I want Sirius to be single.
I want him to be the height of cool forever. I want him to break hearts left and right.
I want him to stand up for his best friend at his wedding, but say to himself, "Better you than me, mate!"
I want Sirius the Studmuffin.
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Ladybug220 - Jul 20, 2004 8:04 pm (#1550 of 2916)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Haymoni, you really made me laugh with the Studmuffin title - I am not going to quite look at Sirius the same way now.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 20, 2004 8:59 pm (#1551 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Guess I have to agree with Green Eyes on certain points there; still, we haven't seen evidence that Hermione likes either boy. I can now see that we aren't getting anywhere. May be I should take a break from this thread and come back when HbP has been released. Green Eyes; I would like to see that Essay on Lexicon too; incidently, there isn't a single R/Hr essay on Lexicon. Anyway, Farewell Green Eyes; we'll all miss ya!!!
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 21, 2004 2:34 am (#1552 of 2916)
"still, we haven't seen evidence that Hermione likes either boy"
I feel the need to add "more than the other" to that sentence. It's quite clear that Hermione likes both of them as friends.
Otherwise, I agree with Tornedo.
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Green Eyes - Jul 21, 2004 12:34 pm (#1553 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 21, 2004 2:59 pm
okay, I couldn't help it...I'm thinking of some sort of addiction intervention...I had to come back and see if everyone ripped me to shreds after my "essay." I am completely flattered that you think I should get it added to the Lexicon, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that...any suggestions?
As for evidence that Hermione likes either boy...for goodness sake! What was all that Yule Ball stuff about?! And the constant bickering/banter?? The movies show more, and since they show things earlier than the books do, then the movie evidence suggestst that we will see R/Hr together more in books 6 and 7. I am of the opinion that they already have a "covert" relationship in book 5 but Harry isn't seeing it yet. I think considering the state of mind he came to Grimmauld place in, they are hesitant to let on. There are what I think are some subtle hints like Harry noticing R/Hr whispering together and looking at him ...he thinks they are talking about him - typical Harry. They sit together across the kitchen table from him when he returns from his hearing - why didn't one of them sit NEXT to him? Ron's unwillingness to disagree with Hermione when she's lecturing Harry. These of course, could be interpreted otherwise, but I just have a feeling...
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 1:51 pm (#1554 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Green Eyes, I thought you said 'farewell'? ;-)
Let me be another to congratulate you on an excellent post. I am fully in agreement with your R/H points. I have to take exception to your H/G points, however.
Perhaps it is not fair to say 'your' H/G points, because most of the H/G 'shippers come down to this -- Ginny is going to get together with Harry because Rowling is developing her character beyond the hero-worshipping little girl we saw in books #1 and #2.
To that, all I can say is, "Of course she is!" Do H/G 'shippers expect poor Ginny to remain 11 years-old the rest of her life? And to the fact that Harry has learned more about her in OoP, it can also be said that he has learned more about Cho, Marietta, Susan, Hannah, Luna, and any number of people, including Neville. His circle of interest is widening, while at the same time his relationship with Ron and Hermione is noticeably starting to cool down.
I have had difficulty accepting H/G since the very first book. Why? At first, it was because it is too pat, too clichéish, too predictable. But as the series progressed, it was because of the way the characters were being developed.
Why is it that those who argue in favor of R/H because of their 'energy' and against H/H because of their lack of it, turn right around and argue in favor of H/G when there doesn't seem to be any more energy between Harry and Ginny than between Harry and Hermione?
Are we to believe that Harry, who has been shooting off energy right and left through out the books is a dead fish when it comes to affairs of the heart? How likely is that?
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Courtney22 - Jul 21, 2004 2:18 pm (#1555 of 2916)
Haymoni-- I always thought of Sirius that way... kinda like a catch you later sweetheart kind of guy...but not in a sleazy way in a sexy way. Sort of the ungettable get.
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drippan - Jul 21, 2004 2:22 pm (#1556 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, "Are we to believe that Harry, who has been shooting off energy right and left through out the books is a dead fish when it comes to affairs of the heart? How likely is that?"
Dead fish? Maybe not but out of all the characters, he is the only one who did not grow up in a loving environment.
Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Hagrid, Sirius, etc all had a mom and/or dad. Even Neville had his grandmother.
Harry didn't even know what a friend was until he met Ron. Then his circle grew a little to include his other roommates. Then he hooks up with Hermione. Then he realizes that Ron is his best friend and Hermione also turns into a friend.
He doesn't know what a family atmosphere is until CoS when Fred, George and Ron come and take him to the burrows. He just spends a little time with the Weasleys.
In PoA, Molly hugs him like there is no tomorrow and Arthur acts like the dad to give him some warning and advice. He is so excited at the end of PoA that he had a god father. He also notices Cho for her looks.
Molly even shows up in GoF as "Harry's family" and Arthur takes him to the World Quidditch match.
In OotP, in the hospital, he is invited in to see Arthur because Molly told him "your part of the family". This takes Harry by surprise. He even learning what love is when Sirius told Harry that him and James were not proud of the way they acted to Snape. Harry learns that hating ones actions is not saying you hate that person. He also learns that Cho, even though very pretty, does not mean that she is love.
Yep, Harry is very behind in the relationship curve compared to the rest of the characters.
DripPan
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timrew - Jul 21, 2004 2:48 pm (#1557 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
DripPan Harry is very behind in the relationship curve
Behind in the relationship curve.....??? I don't think he's realised that girls are a whole new sex yet!
To Harry, girls are strange, long-haired creatures, with weird ideas and opinions; and he's noticed that not as many of them play quidditch as boys. This is why he fancied Cho in the first place.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 21, 2004 3:07 pm (#1558 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Green Eyes: I am completely flattered that you think I should get it added to the Lexicon, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that...any suggestions?
If you (or anyone else) want to get an essay up on the Lexicon, you could try asking Steve if he is interested via email. (I would be sure to mention that you haven't found any R/H 'shipping essays on the Lexicon and you feel yours might be a good addition to what is already present.)
Here's what the Lexicon has to say:
Can I write for the Lexicon? Can I send you my artwork to use?
It's possible, but more than likely we won't use things sent to us unsolicited. We don't mean to be rude, but we have pretty high standards. The writers and artists we use have almost always been chosen by Steve from things he saw online, and almost always they are adults. If you're willing to accept rejection, you may send us stuff, but always write first and ask if we're interested in what you have.
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Aisha Ahsia - Jul 21, 2004 3:14 pm (#1559 of 2916)
Drippan, I really loved your post, and I totally agree with ya!! Personally it doesn't matter much to me who ends up with who, as long as meany weenie Draco doesn't get his "groove on" with one of our griffindor girls. Or boys, as a matter of fact...
But I have to admit that it DOES seem like Ron has stronger feelings for Hermione than Harry has, notice how he is usually the one who asks stuff like where she is, he is the one who gets jealous, he is the one who bickers with her, and that row after the yule ball i GoF...? But of course we know that Harry cares a lot about her too.
And they are going to be 16 now, feeling do change in that age. As long as Harry doesn't end up with Cho again, didn't really like her much, felt sorry for her though. Don't think he will get back with her, because at the end of OoP he didn't care much and because of what something JKR has said.
Luna... I don't think neither Harry or Ron are mature enough for someone as er... diferent as her YET. I don't know...
Anyway as Drippan said, Harry is a bit estranged to love, emotions, girls and relationship, but he IS changing. I really loved seeing how he "expanded his horizon" in OoP...
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 4:14 pm (#1560 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Okay, let's assume that Harry is repressed in the relationship department. Why is Ginny likewise repressed? No wait, she is striking sparks with lots of guys. So she has energy with males, just not Harry. And Harry seemed to have sparks with Cho, though it didn't go anywhere. So H/G have sparks for everybody except each other. So this proves H/G because they are repressed -- Harry because of his abused childhood, Ginny because of being the only Weasley girl?
But wasn't Ron repressed by being the last Weasley boy? And Hermione has a bundle of insecurities from the get-go. So they really shouldn't have any energy aim at each other. But repression deflects energy away in one case but concentrates it in another?
The point I am making is R/H -- H/G 'shipping is internally inconsistent. What proves one case disproves the other. But then, who says love is logical?
++++++++++++
Disclaimer: I think Rowling is angling for R/H. I suspect I am right because I have never thought it a good match. I have tried to come up with all sorts of plausible alternative scenarios, but Occam's Razor forces me back to R/H every single time.
I just have very strong doubts about H/G. It is ancient history. There is no 'there', there anymore. Anything that is put forward to support it can just as easily by applied to H/H, and usually with greater force. In plain English, Harry treats Ginny like he treats Hermione, platonic all the way.
Tell me again why H/P won't work?
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KWeldon - Jul 21, 2004 4:25 pm (#1561 of 2916)
Marcus,
Will you remind me what "Occam's Razor" is? I've heard of it (from The X-Files, I think?) but forgotten the details.
I think JKR is heading towards a more definite R/H ship, but IMHO I've never understood what a girl like Hermione would see in Ron.
KWeldon
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Courtney22 - Jul 21, 2004 4:31 pm (#1562 of 2916)
Occam's Razor was discussed in Jurassic Park (Movie and book) but I am not sure if I know enough about it off the top of my head to explain it and do it justice so I will leave that to others.
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Ozymandias - Jul 21, 2004 4:56 pm (#1563 of 2916)
Nothing beside remains...
Occam's Razor is a theory (named for William of Ockham) that says, when presented with two theories to explain something, the simplest one is most likely to be correct. More specifically, the theory that requires the fewest assumptions to make sense is most likely to be correct. So what Marcus was saying is that R/H works with fewer additional assumptions than other 'ships, say, H/P, which assumes that Pansy will reform, that Harry will like her, that the two will get along, etc... (Sorry, Marcus, but it was the first example that came to mind)
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 5:18 pm (#1564 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 21, 2004 5:19 pm
Yes, Ozy, that is precisely what I mean. And it is an extremely good example you chose, I might add. R/H works with the fewest complications of all the 'ships.
It is when you start trying to figure out Harry's 'ship given the fact that Hermione is now taken that Occam's Razor starts getting interesting. If you accept the fact that all "good" females have an equal chance with Harry, all Pansy has to do is reform before she is at the bare minimum on equal footing with the other young ladies.
The very fact Pansy is strong enough to reform despite enormous Slytherin peer pressure and maybe even persecution will appeal to Harry. Her proven leadership qualities will encourage other Slytherins to break with the death nibblers, causing a re-uniting of all four houses. Couple this with her feminine side that Rowling has been so cleverly showing us glimpses of; and throw in about a half a dozen thematic, literary, and dramatic threads getting tied up with the 'ship, and I have difficulty seeing anybody else as Harry's 'ship.
As I said, all she has to do is reform. Will she or won't she? HBP will tell.
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KWeldon - Jul 21, 2004 5:38 pm (#1565 of 2916)
Marcus,
As you could probably guess, you converted me in your "Harry's 'ship uniting the houses thread", and I think your explanation here is a very good one. Somewhere (that thread?) I posted my thoughts after reading Round Pink Spider's "meaning of color" comments that Pansy having worn pink to the Yule Ball, a color which signifies secrets, could foreshadow a secret that she is hiding. Being less than a pureblood as a catalyst for her reform is an obvious guess.
KWeldon
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 5:54 pm (#1566 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
KWeldon - Pansy having worn pink to the Yule Ball, a color which signifies secrets, could foreshadow a secret that she is hiding.
It certainly could be true, but as a rule I am uncomfortable with foreshadowing. It is like the Shopkeeper said in Diagon Ally when Harry was looking at Death Omens and what to do once you know the worst is coming. As near as I recall he said, "Oh I wouldn't read that if I were you. You'll start seeing death omens everywhere you look" If you aren't careful, you see fore-shadows everywhere you look. To quote McGonagall and Hermione when they are discussion Divination, "It seems rather woolly to me".
But even with my discomfort with it, I could not help but be taken aback by Pansy getting nailed with antlers on her head in OoP!
YOUCH!
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KWeldon - Jul 21, 2004 7:33 pm (#1567 of 2916)
Antlers certainly are a more prevalent clue for "shipness" in Book 5 than the shade of dress robes she wore back in Book 4. It was described as frilly pink, if memory serves....is that what you meant when you noted JKR was cleverly showing glimpses of her feminine side, or were you referring to something else?
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 8:07 pm (#1568 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 21, 2004 8:08 pm
Glimpses of Pansy's feminine side:
(1)PoA. Crying and running to see if Draco was all right after being slashed by Buckbeak.
(2)PoA. Simpering to Draco and asking him if his arm still hurt.
(3)GoF. Wearing dress robes of 'very frilly pink' to the Yule Ball.
(4)GoF. Squealing with delight at the sight of the unicorn foals.
Those are the more obvious ones.
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drippan - Jul 22, 2004 7:14 am (#1569 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, "Okay, let's assume that Harry is repressed in the relationship department. Why is Ginny likewise repressed? No wait, she is striking sparks with lots of guys."
Well, I take the "Why is Ginny likewise repressed?" as a rhetorical question but would like to explain, IMO, what Ginny has gone through and her deal with relationships.....
Ginny is an only daughter. She has 6 older brothers. Now, in my book, this creates several problems and her reactions. I can see where the boys might get confusing in the Weasley family but not Ginny. Being the only girl she gets her own room and her own clothes (no hand me downs for her).
I'll bet anything that nothing ever happened to her because her brothers would rip anybody apart who tried anything! Remember she used to take the boys brooms out and practice Quidditch on her own without letting them know.
She has learned to love from her family though. She might feel distant from them (being the only girl) but knows that she is truly loved. She's also had a really good role model in her mother who accepts Arthur with all her heart no matter what quirks he has.
She is infatuated with Harry at first in SS/PS. I can see this after hearing all the stories but, also, she has probably been "sheltered" from boys who've had an interest for her by her brothers butting in. Also, she is only 10 at the time.
In CoS, she still has a crush on Harry. Again, she is still living at home. When she gets to Hogwarts and gets away from her family (living in a girl's dorm gives her her freedom) is she free to explore her own feelings. She has alot of questions and is quite confuse for her feelings for Harry so she writes in a diary (an evil diary but still a diary).
In PoA is a major change in her feelings. She finally has a sister in Hermione. They share a room for the first time at "The Leaky Cauldron" and, girls being girls, talk about boys. Vice writing in a diary, she now confides in Hermione.
In GoF, she is beginning to see that Harry might not be interested in her, so she accepts that fact, starts treating him as anything but a love interest and even goes to the Yule Ball with Neville. She is moving on with her life.
OotP: The relationship between Hermione and Ginny is very strong! Hermione shares what is going on with Ginny and her relationship with Corners (anybody here wish Ginny would share Hermione's feelings?). Ginny is over the infatuation with Harry and is exploring other avenues. With this, she is free to tell Harry off to his face about his "messed up" feelings. That he is not in this alone no matter what he thinks or what he knows. Also, Harry at the same time is learning what true love is (my post #1556).
Ginny is full of love and wants to share it with the man she truly loves. She will look around for suitors until, eventually, she'll find the one who deserves it the most.
This may be Harry, Neville, Draco (had to throw that one in), or somebody in the future.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth...
DripPan
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 22, 2004 9:10 am (#1570 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Good post, DripPan.
You certainly outlined Ginny's history quite well.
Marcus
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timrew - Jul 22, 2004 3:27 pm (#1571 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Well, as long as the pug-faced Pansy uses Occam's razor to have a good shave before the next ball......
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Catherine - Jul 22, 2004 3:50 pm (#1572 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Oh, Tim, the King of Spew!
Thanks, as always, as I wipe my screen!
I'm hoping for more than Occam's dull razor for Pugsley, *ahem* Pansy. Harry deserves a quiet walk through the veil versus that!
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Hermione Weasley - Jul 22, 2004 8:23 pm (#1573 of 2916)
I'm really so very glad that I read this WHOLE thread, not really! One could really argue for and against both R/Hr and H/Hr very effectively and have. Personally, I would love to see H/Hr get together but I have a sneaking feeling that H will never try another relationship. I mean, look at what has happened to all those that have loved him greatly; his parents, and Sirius are both dead. I don't know if he'd like to risk another person loving him the way these three people did. To me H is the tragic hero, so very worthy of love and yet so afraid of its results.
This is not to say that H will NEVER have another loving relationship (and I can hear everyone out there filling up their lungs with the Weasleys' and Lupin retorts, so please don't yell at me ::looking up sheepishly:: please?? }. I, of course, can also see the R/Hr ship and the Hr/K ship and the H/G ship and all the others as possibilities, but unfortunately for us JKR decides the end.
My sneaking feeling stems from his feelings at the end of OoP:
"Perhaps the reason he wanted to be alone was because he had felt isolated from everybody since his talk with Dumbledore. An invisible barrier separated him from the rest of the world. He was--he had always been-- a marked man."
I just don't know if he wants to put anyone else a risk by receiving love. (yes, yes I know don't yell, the door in DOM }
Just my humble opinion. I'm sure this has already been savagely destroyed in the thread so feel free to pick me apart!
Hermione
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total hatred - Jul 22, 2004 8:46 pm (#1574 of 2916)
I think Harry will concentrate on his lovelife after the war.
I had this stupid idea that JKR is actually planning to pair Harry and Pansy. Based her statement that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends and there are tension between Mione and Ron which I see no romantic tension yet. He is also at bad terms with Cho and it seems that Ginny had moved on. Luna is far like more a friend and I can't see at the moment some romantic tension betweem him and Susan. There are talks of Pansy reforming and I believe that she will do that. How many of us are H/P shippers. Based on statistics, only a few and it makes sense to JKR statement that only a few figure it outwho will be Harry's destined someone.
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 7:05 am (#1575 of 2916)
I was thinking about Dobby & Winky , Maxime & Hagrid , Voldie & Bella (after Rodolphus dies of course).Bella would die to be Voldie's wife, wouldn't she ? And also any takers for Trelawney & Flitwick ? Lockhart & Umbridge ? They'll be such lovely pairs.......
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 7:56 am (#1576 of 2916)
I really dunno why Susan is a candidate prima facie. All she asked Harry was whether he could really conjure a corporeal patronus. And the fact that she lost some of her family members to DEs is also iterated. But lots of them have. And she then says, she now knows how it feels to be Harry. But that's sympathy. Even Cho showed him sympathy & Hermione's always sympathetic to him.I frankly don't see the H/S 'ship even capable of sailing.Can people supporting this come up with clear evidence please ?
The possible 'ships in my view, in the order most possible to least possible are H/Hr , H/L , H/G and that's it. H/S,H/P are remote possibilities but it'll be interesting the way it comes up, if it does.I would hate that anyway.Though I amn't that worried about 'ships, c'mon H/P will be disturbing ......
As of now, I don't see how Pansy will reform.Is it something to do with Lucius being a DE ? I reckon not. If she does reform, there'll be a lot of page-time for that.(And Hermione will still crib about Pansy being a 'complete cow'.) Can JKR afford that is the issue.
Can someone quote the exact statement JKR made with respect to the fact that no one was able to come up with the right girl for Harry or whatever ?
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 10:00 am (#1577 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 23, 2004 10:04 am
Crookshanks - As of now, I don't see how Pansy will reform.
Put yourself Pansy's shoes. You are a cunning Slytherin. You have a burning desire to succeed. Do you stay associated with the proven loser Draco Malfoy who is openly supporting Voldemort's return, and whose father was just thrown in the klink? Or do you start considering the proven winner Harry Potter, the person whom the entire WW respects, and is in good with all the powers that be? Which association would you consider to be in your best self-interest?
The rise of Voldemort will cause a sifting of Slytherin house. They can't all be death nibblers. As McGonagall said, "Each house has its own noble history and each has produced outstanding witches and wizards." The re-uniting of all houses is a theme that is getting stronger with each passing book. How can Slytherin house re-unite without some reformation and/or redemption involved?
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Eponine - Jul 23, 2004 10:50 am (#1578 of 2916)
Crookshanks, the exact quote is as follows.
JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?
JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
As you can see, she doesn't specifically state anything about Harry's ship. Some people think she is referring to ships and take this to mean no one has figured out Harry's future beloved yet. Others think she is referring to our whacked out theories in general, so the quote is interpreted in different ways by different people.
Link to the entire interview [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Sir Tornado - Jul 23, 2004 11:29 am (#1579 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Put yourself Pansy's shoes. You are a cunning Slytherin. You have a burning desire to succeed. Do you stay associated with the proven loser Draco Malfoy who is openly supporting Voldemort's return, and whose father was just thrown in the klink? Or do you start considering the proven winner Harry Potter, the person whom the entire WW respects, and is in good with all the powers that be? Which association would you consider to be in your best self-interest? --Prefect Marcus
Macus; if what you say is correct, Pansy will try to be Harry's Girlfriend because of her selfishness; not because she likes him. In such a case, Hermione would surely see Pansy's real motives and warn Harry. Who would Harry listen to? Hermione or Pansy?
P.S: Oh yes, I almost forgot. Would like to say a 'Happy Birthday' to Mr Daniel Radcliffe.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 11:42 am (#1580 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Tornedo - Marcus; if what you say is correct, Pansy will try to be Harry's Girlfriend because of her selfishness; not because she likes him.
Where did I say she will want to be his girlfriend? I said she will want to be associated with him.
I suspect Pansy would be rather disgusted at the thought, or at least at first. Then, after getting to know Harry, nature takes its course. :-)
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Courtney22 - Jul 23, 2004 11:59 am (#1581 of 2916)
Tornedo--- I was about to say the same thing.
Prefect Marcus---Even if she is only trying to befriend Harry for those reasons I would be skeptical of anyone who wants to be associated with me because I'm on the winning side---sounds like a fair weather friend to me. I'm not sure Harry would give her the time of day if those were her intentions.
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Catherine - Jul 23, 2004 12:05 pm (#1582 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Ah, but Courtney, don't forget Pug power! :-)
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 12:37 pm (#1583 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 23, 2004 12:45 pm
Courtney,
Where did I say it would be smooth sailing? Where did I say the trio and others would welcome her (and the other Slytherins) with open arms? Pansy has spent five books (well, four actually. She doesn't appear in CoS) harassing the Trio and their friends. You think that is all going to disappear overnight? Not a chance.
However, is not conflict the very heart of drama? If Pansy reforms, she is going to have to deal with not only the scorn and rejection of her own house, but the mistrust of the other houses. But if she perseveres and wins their trust and brings a majority of Slytherins with her, does she not prove her worth? Does she not prove her strength of character? "It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends." (Look, another theme H/P wraps up nicely!) And in literature and drama, who does the strongest female traditionally get?
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Aisha Ahsia - Jul 23, 2004 12:57 pm (#1584 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, I think you said something like "Pansy has a burning desire to achieve success", or something. Does she? I've always though her to be more or less like Crabbe and Goyle, the way she ALWAYS laughs out LOUD at Malfoy's jokes, and follows him around.
I don't really see a H/P ship. Sure it makes sense when I read all your posts here, but when I read the books I really can't see it happening at all. We see everything from Harry's point of view, and just think of all the times he has described her to resemble a PUG! Sure, I don't think Harry has to get together with the prettiest girl there is, but the one with a face like a pug? The one who shrieks and points, and laughs at the trio? The one Hermione thinks is a total cow, and the one Harry has never, in the five books thought a nice thought about? The one who probably has a crush on Draco? I just think she is too awful, but I guess we won't know anything before JKR is ready to tell us.
By the way, I'm sorry about my previous "meany weanie Draco" comment. I shudder when I think about it. I gues that's what happens to you after ten cups of coffee...
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 1:22 pm (#1585 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 23, 2004 1:34 pm
Aisha,
Don't feel bad. You are not supposed to see a H/P 'ship. Rowling has worked very hard to hide it from us. She has succeeded very well.
If you are looking at this via the lens of this thread, then I can certainly understand your doubts. This thread is supposed to be dedicated to all ships, not just this one. So the real meat of this 'ship isn't covered here in great detail.
To be brief, the theory does not depends so much on what Rowling writes, but how she writes it. For instance, you mentioned that Harry never once in the five books has a nice thought about Pansy. Absolutely true. Did you also realize that Harry only once has a not-nice thought about her? It was his thinking he didn't want to give her satisfaction in the matter of the bubotuber-pus letter.
Now, here is a girl who has gone out of her way to make life miserable for the trio, yet Harry doesn't think ill of her except for a single mild exception.
Pansy is at her all-time worse in the first half of OoP, but I defy you to point to any time he has a bad thought about her. Hermione is positively livid at times, but Harry seems strangely aloof from it all.
If you're interested in this, I would recommend you read the "Pansy Parkinson" thread and the "Harry's 'ship reuniting the Houses" thread. We really can't do this theory justice here.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 24, 2004 2:13 pm (#1586 of 2916)
Let it snow!
crookshanks: I frankly don't see the H/S 'ship even capable of sailing.Can people supporting this come up with clear evidence please ?
Crookshanks, check out this post (#1196) by Susan Potter. She presents some interesting points toward a Harry/Susan 'ship.
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Aisha Ahsia - Jul 25, 2004 1:26 pm (#1587 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, what do you mean with the "harry didn't want to give her the satisfaction with the bobutuber pus thing"? Didn't that just mean that he didn't wnat her to know that she had actually caused trouble with her comment to Rita Skeeter, because that is what she wanted do to, and he didn't want to give her that satisfaction. By the way, Harry HAS thought a not nice thing about her. He thinks she has a face like a pug. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that is NOT a nice thing. Besides, the comments made that Pansy is feminine because of the pink robes at the yule ball thing, Harry also said that it was frilly. And when Harry first learned that he would have to dance, he pictured himself with a girl in a frilly dress, the kind AUNT PETUNIA used to wear, and that wasn't a happy thought. And don't think harry likes frilly dresses much. I do realize that this last theory was a rather far-fetched one, but I am actually willing to bet with you that a H/P-ship will not happen.
By the way, you are right that Harry has been slightly aloof about Pansy, but hasn't he been that with most of the girls at school? Cho is an exception.
But it's interesting to see how convinced you are, and I will be checking out the threads you talked about.
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Lily Potter - Jul 25, 2004 2:16 pm (#1588 of 2916)
Mother to Harry, Wife to James
Okay, I haven't read all the posts for this section, so I don't know if this has been mentioned, and really, it's just a bit of fun...
I just finished watching Love, Actually. A movie that portrays Professors Snape and Trelawney (Rickman, Thompson) as a married couple. (Well, not the professors themselves, but the actors are married.)
In the film, Rickman is a snake. And dances around having an affair. Thompson thinks she might see something going on, but ultimately doesn't predict the future.
Either way, are these two actors trying to tell us something? Are Snape and Trelawney on the path to marriage? And then maybe divorce??
What do you think??
(I think not.)
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 25, 2004 9:28 pm (#1589 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Aisha - By the way, Harry HAS thought a not nice thing about her. He thinks she has a face like a pug.
Ah, but it is not What Rowling says, but How she says it. This point about Pansy being pug-faced was recently discussed on the "reuniting" thread. The truth is Harry is never credited with thinking Pansy was pug-faced. The Narrator says it, not him. Harry is quoted thinking ill of the appearance of nearly all his antagonists, but not Pansy. That is left to the Narrator.
Is that not interesting?
And as you, yourself pointed out, in all cases where Harry thinks or sees frilly, he reacts negatively -- except when he sees Pansy at the Ball. There he makes no comment, no comment at all. Just the sentence before he is dissing Draco for looking like vicar, but Pansy? Nothing.
Do you not find that interesting?
Another nugget, Catherine. :-)
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total hatred - Jul 25, 2004 9:43 pm (#1590 of 2916)
Harry stance on Pansy is neutral. I find it strange though. He always has prejudice over Slytherin. He just shrugs off all her sarcastic comments and never did I read that he reacted negatively at all
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Weeny Owl - Jul 25, 2004 11:06 pm (#1591 of 2916)
Just the sentence before he is dissing Draco for looking like vicar, but Pansy?
I really don't see how Draco looking like a vicar is dissing him. It's merely an observation based on how his dress robes look, but since there's nothing wrong with being a vicar, how it's an insult is something I don't understand.
With having to deal with the three stooges (Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle), I doubt if Harry see Pansy as being important enough to care about. She seems to be more of an extension of Draco, and there's really no reason for Harry to notice her much.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 26, 2004 3:10 am (#1592 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Great, now we have a Marcus inspired H/P 'ship sailing. Surely, a chance of a H/Hr 'ship is more than a chance of a H/P ship.
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Kieran Burke - Jul 26, 2004 5:56 am (#1593 of 2916)
I think the fact that Harry doesn't say much about Pansy at the ball and quite frequently shrugs off her comments isn't that there is any kind of attraction, I think it's simply that he doesn't consider her worth his time. Now don't jump down my throat and say "Oh so he consider's Draco worth his time does he?" Because I'm deffinatly not saying that, it's more that he see's Draco as a rival, just as Hermione shrugs off Draco's comments (mostly) but is easily enraged by Pansy's, because she view Pansy as a rival. Not necessarily for Harry's feelings but a rival all the same.
Harry for Ginny!*
Hermione for Ron!*
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Weeny Owl - Jul 26, 2004 11:08 am (#1594 of 2916)
he see's Draco as a rival, just as Hermione shrugs off Draco's comments (mostly) but is easily enraged by Pansy's, because she view Pansy as a rival.
I agree with this statement, except I think it's more of an opponent than a mere rival. Harry sees Draco as an opponent in the same way Hermione sees Pansy. Hermione doesn't care about Draco's statements any more than Harry cares about Pansy's.
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Padfoot - Jul 26, 2004 11:42 am (#1595 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 26, 2004 11:42 am
Lily Potter, I just watched that movie recently too. I wondered if there ever could be a Snape/Trelawney 'ship. Decided... no! Snape would need a stronger witch than the wishy washy Trelawney. I do not see him in a relationship until after his order duties are complete. He already has so much to worry about, I think having a romantic relationship would be too much of a distraction for him.
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 26, 2004 12:21 pm (#1596 of 2916)
Great, now we have a Marcus inspired H/P 'ship sailing. Surely, a chance of a H/Hr 'ship is more than a chance of a H/P ship.-- Tornedo
I don't think so. JKR has all but called us "thick" for not realizing that it will be Ron and Hermione getting together. The hints border on blunt statements: the argument after the Yule Ball, Ron's jealousy of any mention of Krum, Hermione's kiss in Ron's cheek before Quidditch, Harry being forcefully reminded of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley when Ron and Hermione bicker, etc. JKR's statement was something to the effect of "I can't believe you haven't figure this one out yet..." Well, if you can let go of hopes for Hermione/Harry, it becomes quite plain.
Well, as long as the pug-faced Pansy uses Occam's razor to have a good shave before the next ball...... --- timrew
I lack the words to express how funny that is, tim.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 26, 2004 12:29 pm (#1597 of 2916)
It'll be easier to imagine a relationship between Ron and Hermione when Ron gets his head deflated a bit...
Or was it Hermione who needs to get her head deflated?
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 26, 2004 12:48 pm (#1598 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
More like when Ron grews up a little bit. Rowling has had great fun in making him a clueless boy. I am thinking Hermione is remaining non-commital until Ron isn't such an embarrassment to be with.
There is a world of difference between being the female acquantance of a clueless boy and being the girlfriend of a clueless boy. :-)
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total hatred - Jul 26, 2004 1:34 pm (#1599 of 2916)
I agree with You Prefect Marcus. There is a very big difference between a female acquitance of a clueless boy and a girlfiend of a clueless boy.
As in for Loopy Lupin post, you never realize that all your argument can also used against you. For example, you compare Hermione and Ron relationship similar to Mr and Mrs Weasley, I agree to you to you the bikering aspect but you forgot to see that their personalities are similar to Harry and Hermione. Hermione a law abiding person in contrast to Harry tendency to break the rules. Mr Weasley bends the rules for his own purposes while Mrs. Weasley blatantly follows it
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tracie1976 - Jul 26, 2004 2:00 pm (#1600 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
total hatred: As in for Loopy Lupin post, you never realize that all your argument can also used against you. For example, you compare Hermione and Ron relationship similar to Mr and Mrs Weasley, I agree to you to you the bikering aspect but you forgot to see that their personalities are similar to Harry and Hermione. Hermione a law abiding person in contrast to Harry tendency to break the rules. Mr Weasley bends the rules for his own purposes while Mrs. Weasley blatantly follows it
I have never thought about comparing Hermione and Harry's relationship to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley's like that before. Thanks for pointing it out.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Rebel without a cause.
Guess I have to agree with Green Eyes on certain points there; still, we haven't seen evidence that Hermione likes either boy. I can now see that we aren't getting anywhere. May be I should take a break from this thread and come back when HbP has been released. Green Eyes; I would like to see that Essay on Lexicon too; incidently, there isn't a single R/Hr essay on Lexicon. Anyway, Farewell Green Eyes; we'll all miss ya!!!
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 21, 2004 2:34 am (#1552 of 2916)
"still, we haven't seen evidence that Hermione likes either boy"
I feel the need to add "more than the other" to that sentence. It's quite clear that Hermione likes both of them as friends.
Otherwise, I agree with Tornedo.
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Green Eyes - Jul 21, 2004 12:34 pm (#1553 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 21, 2004 2:59 pm
okay, I couldn't help it...I'm thinking of some sort of addiction intervention...I had to come back and see if everyone ripped me to shreds after my "essay." I am completely flattered that you think I should get it added to the Lexicon, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that...any suggestions?
As for evidence that Hermione likes either boy...for goodness sake! What was all that Yule Ball stuff about?! And the constant bickering/banter?? The movies show more, and since they show things earlier than the books do, then the movie evidence suggestst that we will see R/Hr together more in books 6 and 7. I am of the opinion that they already have a "covert" relationship in book 5 but Harry isn't seeing it yet. I think considering the state of mind he came to Grimmauld place in, they are hesitant to let on. There are what I think are some subtle hints like Harry noticing R/Hr whispering together and looking at him ...he thinks they are talking about him - typical Harry. They sit together across the kitchen table from him when he returns from his hearing - why didn't one of them sit NEXT to him? Ron's unwillingness to disagree with Hermione when she's lecturing Harry. These of course, could be interpreted otherwise, but I just have a feeling...
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 1:51 pm (#1554 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Green Eyes, I thought you said 'farewell'? ;-)
Let me be another to congratulate you on an excellent post. I am fully in agreement with your R/H points. I have to take exception to your H/G points, however.
Perhaps it is not fair to say 'your' H/G points, because most of the H/G 'shippers come down to this -- Ginny is going to get together with Harry because Rowling is developing her character beyond the hero-worshipping little girl we saw in books #1 and #2.
To that, all I can say is, "Of course she is!" Do H/G 'shippers expect poor Ginny to remain 11 years-old the rest of her life? And to the fact that Harry has learned more about her in OoP, it can also be said that he has learned more about Cho, Marietta, Susan, Hannah, Luna, and any number of people, including Neville. His circle of interest is widening, while at the same time his relationship with Ron and Hermione is noticeably starting to cool down.
I have had difficulty accepting H/G since the very first book. Why? At first, it was because it is too pat, too clichéish, too predictable. But as the series progressed, it was because of the way the characters were being developed.
Why is it that those who argue in favor of R/H because of their 'energy' and against H/H because of their lack of it, turn right around and argue in favor of H/G when there doesn't seem to be any more energy between Harry and Ginny than between Harry and Hermione?
Are we to believe that Harry, who has been shooting off energy right and left through out the books is a dead fish when it comes to affairs of the heart? How likely is that?
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Courtney22 - Jul 21, 2004 2:18 pm (#1555 of 2916)
Haymoni-- I always thought of Sirius that way... kinda like a catch you later sweetheart kind of guy...but not in a sleazy way in a sexy way. Sort of the ungettable get.
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drippan - Jul 21, 2004 2:22 pm (#1556 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, "Are we to believe that Harry, who has been shooting off energy right and left through out the books is a dead fish when it comes to affairs of the heart? How likely is that?"
Dead fish? Maybe not but out of all the characters, he is the only one who did not grow up in a loving environment.
Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Hagrid, Sirius, etc all had a mom and/or dad. Even Neville had his grandmother.
Harry didn't even know what a friend was until he met Ron. Then his circle grew a little to include his other roommates. Then he hooks up with Hermione. Then he realizes that Ron is his best friend and Hermione also turns into a friend.
He doesn't know what a family atmosphere is until CoS when Fred, George and Ron come and take him to the burrows. He just spends a little time with the Weasleys.
In PoA, Molly hugs him like there is no tomorrow and Arthur acts like the dad to give him some warning and advice. He is so excited at the end of PoA that he had a god father. He also notices Cho for her looks.
Molly even shows up in GoF as "Harry's family" and Arthur takes him to the World Quidditch match.
In OotP, in the hospital, he is invited in to see Arthur because Molly told him "your part of the family". This takes Harry by surprise. He even learning what love is when Sirius told Harry that him and James were not proud of the way they acted to Snape. Harry learns that hating ones actions is not saying you hate that person. He also learns that Cho, even though very pretty, does not mean that she is love.
Yep, Harry is very behind in the relationship curve compared to the rest of the characters.
DripPan
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timrew - Jul 21, 2004 2:48 pm (#1557 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
DripPan Harry is very behind in the relationship curve
Behind in the relationship curve.....??? I don't think he's realised that girls are a whole new sex yet!
To Harry, girls are strange, long-haired creatures, with weird ideas and opinions; and he's noticed that not as many of them play quidditch as boys. This is why he fancied Cho in the first place.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 21, 2004 3:07 pm (#1558 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Green Eyes: I am completely flattered that you think I should get it added to the Lexicon, but I'm not sure how to go about doing that...any suggestions?
If you (or anyone else) want to get an essay up on the Lexicon, you could try asking Steve if he is interested via email. (I would be sure to mention that you haven't found any R/H 'shipping essays on the Lexicon and you feel yours might be a good addition to what is already present.)
Here's what the Lexicon has to say:
Can I write for the Lexicon? Can I send you my artwork to use?
It's possible, but more than likely we won't use things sent to us unsolicited. We don't mean to be rude, but we have pretty high standards. The writers and artists we use have almost always been chosen by Steve from things he saw online, and almost always they are adults. If you're willing to accept rejection, you may send us stuff, but always write first and ask if we're interested in what you have.
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Aisha Ahsia - Jul 21, 2004 3:14 pm (#1559 of 2916)
Drippan, I really loved your post, and I totally agree with ya!! Personally it doesn't matter much to me who ends up with who, as long as meany weenie Draco doesn't get his "groove on" with one of our griffindor girls. Or boys, as a matter of fact...
But I have to admit that it DOES seem like Ron has stronger feelings for Hermione than Harry has, notice how he is usually the one who asks stuff like where she is, he is the one who gets jealous, he is the one who bickers with her, and that row after the yule ball i GoF...? But of course we know that Harry cares a lot about her too.
And they are going to be 16 now, feeling do change in that age. As long as Harry doesn't end up with Cho again, didn't really like her much, felt sorry for her though. Don't think he will get back with her, because at the end of OoP he didn't care much and because of what something JKR has said.
Luna... I don't think neither Harry or Ron are mature enough for someone as er... diferent as her YET. I don't know...
Anyway as Drippan said, Harry is a bit estranged to love, emotions, girls and relationship, but he IS changing. I really loved seeing how he "expanded his horizon" in OoP...
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 4:14 pm (#1560 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Okay, let's assume that Harry is repressed in the relationship department. Why is Ginny likewise repressed? No wait, she is striking sparks with lots of guys. So she has energy with males, just not Harry. And Harry seemed to have sparks with Cho, though it didn't go anywhere. So H/G have sparks for everybody except each other. So this proves H/G because they are repressed -- Harry because of his abused childhood, Ginny because of being the only Weasley girl?
But wasn't Ron repressed by being the last Weasley boy? And Hermione has a bundle of insecurities from the get-go. So they really shouldn't have any energy aim at each other. But repression deflects energy away in one case but concentrates it in another?
The point I am making is R/H -- H/G 'shipping is internally inconsistent. What proves one case disproves the other. But then, who says love is logical?
++++++++++++
Disclaimer: I think Rowling is angling for R/H. I suspect I am right because I have never thought it a good match. I have tried to come up with all sorts of plausible alternative scenarios, but Occam's Razor forces me back to R/H every single time.
I just have very strong doubts about H/G. It is ancient history. There is no 'there', there anymore. Anything that is put forward to support it can just as easily by applied to H/H, and usually with greater force. In plain English, Harry treats Ginny like he treats Hermione, platonic all the way.
Tell me again why H/P won't work?
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KWeldon - Jul 21, 2004 4:25 pm (#1561 of 2916)
Marcus,
Will you remind me what "Occam's Razor" is? I've heard of it (from The X-Files, I think?) but forgotten the details.
I think JKR is heading towards a more definite R/H ship, but IMHO I've never understood what a girl like Hermione would see in Ron.
KWeldon
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Courtney22 - Jul 21, 2004 4:31 pm (#1562 of 2916)
Occam's Razor was discussed in Jurassic Park (Movie and book) but I am not sure if I know enough about it off the top of my head to explain it and do it justice so I will leave that to others.
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Ozymandias - Jul 21, 2004 4:56 pm (#1563 of 2916)
Nothing beside remains...
Occam's Razor is a theory (named for William of Ockham) that says, when presented with two theories to explain something, the simplest one is most likely to be correct. More specifically, the theory that requires the fewest assumptions to make sense is most likely to be correct. So what Marcus was saying is that R/H works with fewer additional assumptions than other 'ships, say, H/P, which assumes that Pansy will reform, that Harry will like her, that the two will get along, etc... (Sorry, Marcus, but it was the first example that came to mind
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 5:18 pm (#1564 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 21, 2004 5:19 pm
Yes, Ozy, that is precisely what I mean. And it is an extremely good example you chose, I might add. R/H works with the fewest complications of all the 'ships.
It is when you start trying to figure out Harry's 'ship given the fact that Hermione is now taken that Occam's Razor starts getting interesting. If you accept the fact that all "good" females have an equal chance with Harry, all Pansy has to do is reform before she is at the bare minimum on equal footing with the other young ladies.
The very fact Pansy is strong enough to reform despite enormous Slytherin peer pressure and maybe even persecution will appeal to Harry. Her proven leadership qualities will encourage other Slytherins to break with the death nibblers, causing a re-uniting of all four houses. Couple this with her feminine side that Rowling has been so cleverly showing us glimpses of; and throw in about a half a dozen thematic, literary, and dramatic threads getting tied up with the 'ship, and I have difficulty seeing anybody else as Harry's 'ship.
As I said, all she has to do is reform. Will she or won't she? HBP will tell.
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KWeldon - Jul 21, 2004 5:38 pm (#1565 of 2916)
Marcus,
As you could probably guess, you converted me in your "Harry's 'ship uniting the houses thread", and I think your explanation here is a very good one. Somewhere (that thread?) I posted my thoughts after reading Round Pink Spider's "meaning of color" comments that Pansy having worn pink to the Yule Ball, a color which signifies secrets, could foreshadow a secret that she is hiding. Being less than a pureblood as a catalyst for her reform is an obvious guess.
KWeldon
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 5:54 pm (#1566 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
KWeldon - Pansy having worn pink to the Yule Ball, a color which signifies secrets, could foreshadow a secret that she is hiding.
It certainly could be true, but as a rule I am uncomfortable with foreshadowing. It is like the Shopkeeper said in Diagon Ally when Harry was looking at Death Omens and what to do once you know the worst is coming. As near as I recall he said, "Oh I wouldn't read that if I were you. You'll start seeing death omens everywhere you look" If you aren't careful, you see fore-shadows everywhere you look. To quote McGonagall and Hermione when they are discussion Divination, "It seems rather woolly to me".
But even with my discomfort with it, I could not help but be taken aback by Pansy getting nailed with antlers on her head in OoP!
YOUCH!
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KWeldon - Jul 21, 2004 7:33 pm (#1567 of 2916)
Antlers certainly are a more prevalent clue for "shipness" in Book 5 than the shade of dress robes she wore back in Book 4. It was described as frilly pink, if memory serves....is that what you meant when you noted JKR was cleverly showing glimpses of her feminine side, or were you referring to something else?
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 21, 2004 8:07 pm (#1568 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 21, 2004 8:08 pm
Glimpses of Pansy's feminine side:
(1)PoA. Crying and running to see if Draco was all right after being slashed by Buckbeak.
(2)PoA. Simpering to Draco and asking him if his arm still hurt.
(3)GoF. Wearing dress robes of 'very frilly pink' to the Yule Ball.
(4)GoF. Squealing with delight at the sight of the unicorn foals.
Those are the more obvious ones.
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drippan - Jul 22, 2004 7:14 am (#1569 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, "Okay, let's assume that Harry is repressed in the relationship department. Why is Ginny likewise repressed? No wait, she is striking sparks with lots of guys."
Well, I take the "Why is Ginny likewise repressed?" as a rhetorical question but would like to explain, IMO, what Ginny has gone through and her deal with relationships.....
Ginny is an only daughter. She has 6 older brothers. Now, in my book, this creates several problems and her reactions. I can see where the boys might get confusing in the Weasley family but not Ginny. Being the only girl she gets her own room and her own clothes (no hand me downs for her).
I'll bet anything that nothing ever happened to her because her brothers would rip anybody apart who tried anything! Remember she used to take the boys brooms out and practice Quidditch on her own without letting them know.
She has learned to love from her family though. She might feel distant from them (being the only girl) but knows that she is truly loved. She's also had a really good role model in her mother who accepts Arthur with all her heart no matter what quirks he has.
She is infatuated with Harry at first in SS/PS. I can see this after hearing all the stories but, also, she has probably been "sheltered" from boys who've had an interest for her by her brothers butting in. Also, she is only 10 at the time.
In CoS, she still has a crush on Harry. Again, she is still living at home. When she gets to Hogwarts and gets away from her family (living in a girl's dorm gives her her freedom) is she free to explore her own feelings. She has alot of questions and is quite confuse for her feelings for Harry so she writes in a diary (an evil diary but still a diary).
In PoA is a major change in her feelings. She finally has a sister in Hermione. They share a room for the first time at "The Leaky Cauldron" and, girls being girls, talk about boys. Vice writing in a diary, she now confides in Hermione.
In GoF, she is beginning to see that Harry might not be interested in her, so she accepts that fact, starts treating him as anything but a love interest and even goes to the Yule Ball with Neville. She is moving on with her life.
OotP: The relationship between Hermione and Ginny is very strong! Hermione shares what is going on with Ginny and her relationship with Corners (anybody here wish Ginny would share Hermione's feelings?). Ginny is over the infatuation with Harry and is exploring other avenues. With this, she is free to tell Harry off to his face about his "messed up" feelings. That he is not in this alone no matter what he thinks or what he knows. Also, Harry at the same time is learning what true love is (my post #1556).
Ginny is full of love and wants to share it with the man she truly loves. She will look around for suitors until, eventually, she'll find the one who deserves it the most.
This may be Harry, Neville, Draco (had to throw that one in), or somebody in the future.
Well, that's my 2 cents worth...
DripPan
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 22, 2004 9:10 am (#1570 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Good post, DripPan.
You certainly outlined Ginny's history quite well.
Marcus
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timrew - Jul 22, 2004 3:27 pm (#1571 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Well, as long as the pug-faced Pansy uses Occam's razor to have a good shave before the next ball......
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Catherine - Jul 22, 2004 3:50 pm (#1572 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Oh, Tim, the King of Spew!
Thanks, as always, as I wipe my screen!
I'm hoping for more than Occam's dull razor for Pugsley, *ahem* Pansy. Harry deserves a quiet walk through the veil versus that!
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Hermione Weasley - Jul 22, 2004 8:23 pm (#1573 of 2916)
I'm really so very glad that I read this WHOLE thread, not really!
One could really argue for and against both R/Hr and H/Hr very effectively and have. Personally, I would love to see H/Hr get together but I have a sneaking feeling that H will never try another relationship. I mean, look at what has happened to all those that have loved him greatly; his parents, and Sirius are both dead. I don't know if he'd like to risk another person loving him the way these three people did. To me H is the tragic hero, so very worthy of love and yet so afraid of its results. This is not to say that H will NEVER have another loving relationship (and I can hear everyone out there filling up their lungs with the Weasleys' and Lupin retorts, so please don't yell at me ::looking up sheepishly:: please??
}. I, of course, can also see the R/Hr ship and the Hr/K ship and the H/G ship and all the others as possibilities, but unfortunately for us JKR decides the end. My sneaking feeling stems from his feelings at the end of OoP:
"Perhaps the reason he wanted to be alone was because he had felt isolated from everybody since his talk with Dumbledore. An invisible barrier separated him from the rest of the world. He was--he had always been-- a marked man."
I just don't know if he wants to put anyone else a risk by receiving love. (yes, yes I know don't yell, the door in DOM
} Just my humble opinion. I'm sure this has already been savagely destroyed in the thread
so feel free to pick me apart! Hermione
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total hatred - Jul 22, 2004 8:46 pm (#1574 of 2916)
I think Harry will concentrate on his lovelife after the war.
I had this stupid idea that JKR is actually planning to pair Harry and Pansy. Based her statement that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends and there are tension between Mione and Ron which I see no romantic tension yet. He is also at bad terms with Cho and it seems that Ginny had moved on. Luna is far like more a friend and I can't see at the moment some romantic tension betweem him and Susan. There are talks of Pansy reforming and I believe that she will do that. How many of us are H/P shippers. Based on statistics, only a few and it makes sense to JKR statement that only a few figure it outwho will be Harry's destined someone.
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 7:05 am (#1575 of 2916)
I was thinking about Dobby & Winky , Maxime & Hagrid , Voldie & Bella (after Rodolphus dies of course).Bella would die to be Voldie's wife, wouldn't she ? And also any takers for Trelawney & Flitwick ? Lockhart & Umbridge ? They'll be such lovely pairs.......
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Crookshanks - Jul 23, 2004 7:56 am (#1576 of 2916)
I really dunno why Susan is a candidate prima facie. All she asked Harry was whether he could really conjure a corporeal patronus. And the fact that she lost some of her family members to DEs is also iterated. But lots of them have. And she then says, she now knows how it feels to be Harry. But that's sympathy. Even Cho showed him sympathy & Hermione's always sympathetic to him.I frankly don't see the H/S 'ship even capable of sailing.Can people supporting this come up with clear evidence please ?
The possible 'ships in my view, in the order most possible to least possible are H/Hr , H/L , H/G and that's it. H/S,H/P are remote possibilities but it'll be interesting the way it comes up, if it does.I would hate that anyway.Though I amn't that worried about 'ships, c'mon H/P will be disturbing ......
As of now, I don't see how Pansy will reform.Is it something to do with Lucius being a DE ? I reckon not. If she does reform, there'll be a lot of page-time for that.(And Hermione will still crib about Pansy being a 'complete cow'.) Can JKR afford that is the issue.
Can someone quote the exact statement JKR made with respect to the fact that no one was able to come up with the right girl for Harry or whatever ?
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 10:00 am (#1577 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 23, 2004 10:04 am
Crookshanks - As of now, I don't see how Pansy will reform.
Put yourself Pansy's shoes. You are a cunning Slytherin. You have a burning desire to succeed. Do you stay associated with the proven loser Draco Malfoy who is openly supporting Voldemort's return, and whose father was just thrown in the klink? Or do you start considering the proven winner Harry Potter, the person whom the entire WW respects, and is in good with all the powers that be? Which association would you consider to be in your best self-interest?
The rise of Voldemort will cause a sifting of Slytherin house. They can't all be death nibblers. As McGonagall said, "Each house has its own noble history and each has produced outstanding witches and wizards." The re-uniting of all houses is a theme that is getting stronger with each passing book. How can Slytherin house re-unite without some reformation and/or redemption involved?
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Eponine - Jul 23, 2004 10:50 am (#1578 of 2916)
Crookshanks, the exact quote is as follows.
JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?
JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
As you can see, she doesn't specifically state anything about Harry's ship. Some people think she is referring to ships and take this to mean no one has figured out Harry's future beloved yet. Others think she is referring to our whacked out theories in general, so the quote is interpreted in different ways by different people.
Link to the entire interview [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Sir Tornado - Jul 23, 2004 11:29 am (#1579 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Put yourself Pansy's shoes. You are a cunning Slytherin. You have a burning desire to succeed. Do you stay associated with the proven loser Draco Malfoy who is openly supporting Voldemort's return, and whose father was just thrown in the klink? Or do you start considering the proven winner Harry Potter, the person whom the entire WW respects, and is in good with all the powers that be? Which association would you consider to be in your best self-interest? --Prefect Marcus
Macus; if what you say is correct, Pansy will try to be Harry's Girlfriend because of her selfishness; not because she likes him. In such a case, Hermione would surely see Pansy's real motives and warn Harry. Who would Harry listen to? Hermione or Pansy?
P.S: Oh yes, I almost forgot. Would like to say a 'Happy Birthday' to Mr Daniel Radcliffe.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 11:42 am (#1580 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Tornedo - Marcus; if what you say is correct, Pansy will try to be Harry's Girlfriend because of her selfishness; not because she likes him.
Where did I say she will want to be his girlfriend? I said she will want to be associated with him.
I suspect Pansy would be rather disgusted at the thought, or at least at first. Then, after getting to know Harry, nature takes its course. :-)
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Courtney22 - Jul 23, 2004 11:59 am (#1581 of 2916)
Tornedo--- I was about to say the same thing.
Prefect Marcus---Even if she is only trying to befriend Harry for those reasons I would be skeptical of anyone who wants to be associated with me because I'm on the winning side---sounds like a fair weather friend to me. I'm not sure Harry would give her the time of day if those were her intentions.
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Catherine - Jul 23, 2004 12:05 pm (#1582 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Ah, but Courtney, don't forget Pug power! :-)
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 12:37 pm (#1583 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 23, 2004 12:45 pm
Courtney,
Where did I say it would be smooth sailing? Where did I say the trio and others would welcome her (and the other Slytherins) with open arms? Pansy has spent five books (well, four actually. She doesn't appear in CoS) harassing the Trio and their friends. You think that is all going to disappear overnight? Not a chance.
However, is not conflict the very heart of drama? If Pansy reforms, she is going to have to deal with not only the scorn and rejection of her own house, but the mistrust of the other houses. But if she perseveres and wins their trust and brings a majority of Slytherins with her, does she not prove her worth? Does she not prove her strength of character? "It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends." (Look, another theme H/P wraps up nicely!) And in literature and drama, who does the strongest female traditionally get?
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Aisha Ahsia - Jul 23, 2004 12:57 pm (#1584 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, I think you said something like "Pansy has a burning desire to achieve success", or something. Does she? I've always though her to be more or less like Crabbe and Goyle, the way she ALWAYS laughs out LOUD at Malfoy's jokes, and follows him around.
I don't really see a H/P ship. Sure it makes sense when I read all your posts here, but when I read the books I really can't see it happening at all. We see everything from Harry's point of view, and just think of all the times he has described her to resemble a PUG! Sure, I don't think Harry has to get together with the prettiest girl there is, but the one with a face like a pug? The one who shrieks and points, and laughs at the trio? The one Hermione thinks is a total cow, and the one Harry has never, in the five books thought a nice thought about? The one who probably has a crush on Draco? I just think she is too awful, but I guess we won't know anything before JKR is ready to tell us.
By the way, I'm sorry about my previous "meany weanie Draco" comment. I shudder when I think about it. I gues that's what happens to you after ten cups of coffee...
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 23, 2004 1:22 pm (#1585 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 23, 2004 1:34 pm
Aisha,
Don't feel bad. You are not supposed to see a H/P 'ship. Rowling has worked very hard to hide it from us. She has succeeded very well.
If you are looking at this via the lens of this thread, then I can certainly understand your doubts. This thread is supposed to be dedicated to all ships, not just this one. So the real meat of this 'ship isn't covered here in great detail.
To be brief, the theory does not depends so much on what Rowling writes, but how she writes it. For instance, you mentioned that Harry never once in the five books has a nice thought about Pansy. Absolutely true. Did you also realize that Harry only once has a not-nice thought about her? It was his thinking he didn't want to give her satisfaction in the matter of the bubotuber-pus letter.
Now, here is a girl who has gone out of her way to make life miserable for the trio, yet Harry doesn't think ill of her except for a single mild exception.
Pansy is at her all-time worse in the first half of OoP, but I defy you to point to any time he has a bad thought about her. Hermione is positively livid at times, but Harry seems strangely aloof from it all.
If you're interested in this, I would recommend you read the "Pansy Parkinson" thread and the "Harry's 'ship reuniting the Houses" thread. We really can't do this theory justice here.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 24, 2004 2:13 pm (#1586 of 2916)
Let it snow!
crookshanks: I frankly don't see the H/S 'ship even capable of sailing.Can people supporting this come up with clear evidence please ?
Crookshanks, check out this post (#1196) by Susan Potter. She presents some interesting points toward a Harry/Susan 'ship.
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Aisha Ahsia - Jul 25, 2004 1:26 pm (#1587 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, what do you mean with the "harry didn't want to give her the satisfaction with the bobutuber pus thing"? Didn't that just mean that he didn't wnat her to know that she had actually caused trouble with her comment to Rita Skeeter, because that is what she wanted do to, and he didn't want to give her that satisfaction. By the way, Harry HAS thought a not nice thing about her. He thinks she has a face like a pug. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but that is NOT a nice thing. Besides, the comments made that Pansy is feminine because of the pink robes at the yule ball thing, Harry also said that it was frilly. And when Harry first learned that he would have to dance, he pictured himself with a girl in a frilly dress, the kind AUNT PETUNIA used to wear, and that wasn't a happy thought. And don't think harry likes frilly dresses much. I do realize that this last theory was a rather far-fetched one, but I am actually willing to bet with you that a H/P-ship will not happen.
By the way, you are right that Harry has been slightly aloof about Pansy, but hasn't he been that with most of the girls at school? Cho is an exception.
But it's interesting to see how convinced you are, and I will be checking out the threads you talked about.
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Lily Potter - Jul 25, 2004 2:16 pm (#1588 of 2916)
Mother to Harry, Wife to James
Okay, I haven't read all the posts for this section, so I don't know if this has been mentioned, and really, it's just a bit of fun...
I just finished watching Love, Actually. A movie that portrays Professors Snape and Trelawney (Rickman, Thompson) as a married couple. (Well, not the professors themselves, but the actors are married.)
In the film, Rickman is a snake. And dances around having an affair. Thompson thinks she might see something going on, but ultimately doesn't predict the future.
Either way, are these two actors trying to tell us something? Are Snape and Trelawney on the path to marriage? And then maybe divorce??
What do you think??
(I think not.)
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 25, 2004 9:28 pm (#1589 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Aisha - By the way, Harry HAS thought a not nice thing about her. He thinks she has a face like a pug.
Ah, but it is not What Rowling says, but How she says it. This point about Pansy being pug-faced was recently discussed on the "reuniting" thread. The truth is Harry is never credited with thinking Pansy was pug-faced. The Narrator says it, not him. Harry is quoted thinking ill of the appearance of nearly all his antagonists, but not Pansy. That is left to the Narrator.
Is that not interesting?
And as you, yourself pointed out, in all cases where Harry thinks or sees frilly, he reacts negatively -- except when he sees Pansy at the Ball. There he makes no comment, no comment at all. Just the sentence before he is dissing Draco for looking like vicar, but Pansy? Nothing.
Do you not find that interesting?
Another nugget, Catherine. :-)
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total hatred - Jul 25, 2004 9:43 pm (#1590 of 2916)
Harry stance on Pansy is neutral. I find it strange though. He always has prejudice over Slytherin. He just shrugs off all her sarcastic comments and never did I read that he reacted negatively at all
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Weeny Owl - Jul 25, 2004 11:06 pm (#1591 of 2916)
Just the sentence before he is dissing Draco for looking like vicar, but Pansy?
I really don't see how Draco looking like a vicar is dissing him. It's merely an observation based on how his dress robes look, but since there's nothing wrong with being a vicar, how it's an insult is something I don't understand.
With having to deal with the three stooges (Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle), I doubt if Harry see Pansy as being important enough to care about. She seems to be more of an extension of Draco, and there's really no reason for Harry to notice her much.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 26, 2004 3:10 am (#1592 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Great, now we have a Marcus inspired H/P 'ship sailing. Surely, a chance of a H/Hr 'ship is more than a chance of a H/P ship.
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Kieran Burke - Jul 26, 2004 5:56 am (#1593 of 2916)
I think the fact that Harry doesn't say much about Pansy at the ball and quite frequently shrugs off her comments isn't that there is any kind of attraction, I think it's simply that he doesn't consider her worth his time. Now don't jump down my throat and say "Oh so he consider's Draco worth his time does he?" Because I'm deffinatly not saying that, it's more that he see's Draco as a rival, just as Hermione shrugs off Draco's comments (mostly) but is easily enraged by Pansy's, because she view Pansy as a rival. Not necessarily for Harry's feelings but a rival all the same.
Harry for Ginny!*
Hermione for Ron!*
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Weeny Owl - Jul 26, 2004 11:08 am (#1594 of 2916)
he see's Draco as a rival, just as Hermione shrugs off Draco's comments (mostly) but is easily enraged by Pansy's, because she view Pansy as a rival.
I agree with this statement, except I think it's more of an opponent than a mere rival. Harry sees Draco as an opponent in the same way Hermione sees Pansy. Hermione doesn't care about Draco's statements any more than Harry cares about Pansy's.
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Padfoot - Jul 26, 2004 11:42 am (#1595 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 26, 2004 11:42 am
Lily Potter, I just watched that movie recently too. I wondered if there ever could be a Snape/Trelawney 'ship. Decided... no! Snape would need a stronger witch than the wishy washy Trelawney. I do not see him in a relationship until after his order duties are complete. He already has so much to worry about, I think having a romantic relationship would be too much of a distraction for him.
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 26, 2004 12:21 pm (#1596 of 2916)
Great, now we have a Marcus inspired H/P 'ship sailing. Surely, a chance of a H/Hr 'ship is more than a chance of a H/P ship.-- Tornedo
I don't think so. JKR has all but called us "thick" for not realizing that it will be Ron and Hermione getting together. The hints border on blunt statements: the argument after the Yule Ball, Ron's jealousy of any mention of Krum, Hermione's kiss in Ron's cheek before Quidditch, Harry being forcefully reminded of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley when Ron and Hermione bicker, etc. JKR's statement was something to the effect of "I can't believe you haven't figure this one out yet..." Well, if you can let go of hopes for Hermione/Harry, it becomes quite plain.
Well, as long as the pug-faced Pansy uses Occam's razor to have a good shave before the next ball...... --- timrew
I lack the words to express how funny that is, tim.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 26, 2004 12:29 pm (#1597 of 2916)
It'll be easier to imagine a relationship between Ron and Hermione when Ron gets his head deflated a bit...
Or was it Hermione who needs to get her head deflated?
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 26, 2004 12:48 pm (#1598 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
More like when Ron grews up a little bit. Rowling has had great fun in making him a clueless boy. I am thinking Hermione is remaining non-commital until Ron isn't such an embarrassment to be with.
There is a world of difference between being the female acquantance of a clueless boy and being the girlfriend of a clueless boy. :-)
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total hatred - Jul 26, 2004 1:34 pm (#1599 of 2916)
I agree with You Prefect Marcus. There is a very big difference between a female acquitance of a clueless boy and a girlfiend of a clueless boy.
As in for Loopy Lupin post, you never realize that all your argument can also used against you. For example, you compare Hermione and Ron relationship similar to Mr and Mrs Weasley, I agree to you to you the bikering aspect but you forgot to see that their personalities are similar to Harry and Hermione. Hermione a law abiding person in contrast to Harry tendency to break the rules. Mr Weasley bends the rules for his own purposes while Mrs. Weasley blatantly follows it
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tracie1976 - Jul 26, 2004 2:00 pm (#1600 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
total hatred: As in for Loopy Lupin post, you never realize that all your argument can also used against you. For example, you compare Hermione and Ron relationship similar to Mr and Mrs Weasley, I agree to you to you the bikering aspect but you forgot to see that their personalities are similar to Harry and Hermione. Hermione a law abiding person in contrast to Harry tendency to break the rules. Mr Weasley bends the rules for his own purposes while Mrs. Weasley blatantly follows it
I have never thought about comparing Hermione and Harry's relationship to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley's like that before. Thanks for pointing it out.
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total hatred - Jul 26, 2004 2:20 pm (#1601 of 2916)
Many people here associate the trio to Janes,Sirius and Lily. Harry=James Hermione=Lily Ron=Sirius
I believe it is more logical that Sirius=Harry and Ron=James.I am making this comparison personality wise. The R/H shippers might use this for their own advantage but I see a hole in this argument. It is true that they are similar in personalities but it is not the personality alone that determine love between two people. Ron and James are different pople so is Hermione and Lily. I don't believe that history will repeat itself. The true judge is the two people concerned.
You will agree with me that Ron fancy Hermione and Hermione fancy Harry. The big question is Do Hermione fancy Ron back and Do Harry fancy Hermione too. The winner is the one who find love in two ways, to loved and be loved
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 26, 2004 2:46 pm (#1602 of 2916)
You will agree with me that Ron fancy Hermione and Hermione fancy Harry.-- total hatred
No, I wouldn't agree with that at all. You are also wrong to say that I compared Ron and Hermione to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. No, Harry is the one who made that observation. What an odd thing for JKR to do, to have him, Harry, observe. What's more, it is entirely too facile to say that Hermione=law abider and Harry=rule breaker. Hermione is usually smack in the middle of the various bits of rule breaking. She stole the boomslang skin for the Polyjuice Potion and readily admitted that brewing the same would have been breaking the rules. It was even her who tricked Lockhart into signing the permission slip. She used the time-turner for an improper purpose (with DD's consent, sure, but improper nontheless), she helped Harry prepare for the tri-wizard tournament although, technically, he was supposed to work alone, and although she had some reservations, she did continue with the DA in spite of its illegal status. Hermione breaks rules all the time.
As for Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, the only real rule-bending one sees from Mr. Weasley is that he bewitched the Ford Anglia. In any event, the clues for Ron + Hermione are simply too plain. If Harry thinking that the two of them remind him of a married couple doesn't convince you, then nothing will until the books play out.
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total hatred - Jul 26, 2004 3:01 pm (#1603 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 26, 2004 7:45 pm
Hermione more or less abides with the rules. Okay, next argument to the personality similarities. Harry and Arthur prefers a simple live. I think Ron has a comment that his father is capable to be Minister of Magic but choose not too. I hope you will not contradict me here Loopy Lupin. I don't need to say something for Harry since we already knew how simple he is. Molly and Hermione are sort of a pain in the arse. They nag till you drop. They can show their kind heart once in a while. They relies heavily on logic and in case of doubt, consults a book.
This will be an interesting discussion. Too Bad I am now sleepy. Bye
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 26, 2004 4:40 pm (#1604 of 2916)
Well, have a nice nap.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 26, 2004 5:28 pm (#1605 of 2916)
Hmmm... I heard somewhere that Ron fancies Hermione, Hermione fancies Harry, and Harry fancies Ron...
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drippan - Jul 26, 2004 5:44 pm (#1606 of 2916)
Okay, here's a question for all you 'shippers:
For the H/Hr shippers: How do you predict there future would be like? How many kids? How would they raise their kids? Or anything else you like to mention.....
For the R/Hr shippers: Same questions....
For the H/G shippers: Same questions.....
And for H/P shippers: Same questions.......
Just wondering what you think each long term relationship would hold true?
DripPan
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 26, 2004 5:58 pm (#1607 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 26, 2004 5:59 pm
R/Hr - I predict it will be a flash-in-the-pan thing. They might even become engaged, but they will never make it to the altar. They are too dissimilar to last. So no kids.
H/P - Excellent question. Harry and Pansy Potter will become the new Frank and Alice Longbottom. They will be a husband/wife auror team that is the terror of the dark wizard set, at least until Pansy becomes pregnant. She will then have morning sickness for nine solid months, forcing her to resign and stay in bed muttering dark things about the man who did this thing to her. But little Harry Ronald Potter will be joy of their lives and she will remain home happy and content -- until she gets pregnant again. With another nine months of morning sickness staring her in the face and a toddler in nappies to take care of, she will in no uncertain terms tell Harry to "see a healer and get things fixed, or I will fix them for you. Your choice!"
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KWeldon - Jul 26, 2004 6:04 pm (#1608 of 2916)
You're wrong, Marcus, as usual.
Their firstborn will be James Sirius Potter.
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TomProffitt - Jul 26, 2004 6:08 pm (#1609 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
One Big Happy Weasley Family.
I guess I really don't have any proof or anything, it just feels right. (really not my style, I'm much more of an evidence, logic, and proof kinda guy)
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Star Crossed - Jul 26, 2004 6:50 pm (#1610 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
R/Hr - They sort of remind me of that based on real life movie 'Cheaper By the Dozen'. It starts off with the mother saying she always wanted a big family when her sister died (Does that not scream Hermione? She had a sister, but it never really happened, so she pretty much died.) And the father had a lot of brothers and sisters. Anyways. Ron and Hermione will have eight kids. I did the mathematics. I wrote out their names, got out my Arithmancy chart, calculated everything, and came up with eight. Ron and Hermione will raise their kids with a balance of love from each. Whenever Ron comes home from work as an auror, his kids will greet him and demand he tells them a story, and Hermione will lay down papers from work where she is a Thinker, and help her husband tell the stories. Then everyone will rush into the kitchen and held prepare dinner. Hermione prepares vegetables, Ron prepares the roast beef, the oldest two work on making dessert, the next oldest two work on lemonade, the next oldest two make a salad, and the two youngest set the table.
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Czarina II - Jul 26, 2004 8:40 pm (#1611 of 2916)
LOL Starcrossed!!! (and Marcus, yours was pretty good too!)
I pretty much agree with Starcrossed's assessment of the R/Hr future, even if it is rather fanciful.
Since my favourite scenario is the One Happy Weasley Family one (though I am still technically undecided):
Ron and Hermione will get married shortly after Hogwarts. Ron becomes an Auror, Hermione will work for a new regime at the Ministry when she is not looking after her children. I see them having a good-sized brood of red-heads -- five or six maybe. They will live at the Burrow so Granny Molly can help with the kids when their parents are working -- but Hermione will make sure she has a mother-in-law suite!
Harry and Ginny will get married some time after Ginny graduates. Harry will become an Auror and Ginny will do something much less dangerous. Harry might eventually become the Minister for Magic, as per Trelawney's "prophecy". And, following along this line, they will have twelve little Potters.
Both couples would be quite happy, I suppose. (shrugs)
Now...
Harry and Hermione would be downright miserable together. Hermione would constantly badger Harry and they'd probably finish off life the wizarding equivalent of the Buckets on "Keeping Up Appearances." They'd both be quite frustrated with each other most of the time.
Harry and Pansy? Hmm...don't know, have to think about it. Happy for awhile maybe, but I can't see it lasting. This is the girl who attached herself to Draco like their robes were made out of velcro for a year.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 26, 2004 9:33 pm (#1612 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I never see Hermione marrying for some reason. Harry, Luna, Ron, even Neville, but not Hermione. She is too strong-willed and I do not think that she has the patience for marrying someone who is not, well, like her.
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 27, 2004 2:38 am (#1613 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Czarina... Harry & Hermione like Richard & Hyacinth Bucket.... LOL *wipes tear from eye* Thanks for that!
Must say I'm a hopeless romantic when I think of the 'ships & I'd like to see the 'ol 'One Big Happy Weasley Family'....
Harry will probably have one or two more romantic interludes, say with Ginny... just for example , long before Ron & Hermione get there... hee hee! By the time they figure it out, they'll be collecting their pensions.. never mind thoughts of marriage & kids Indeed, knowing Rowling, it'll be in the last chapter of book 7 at the 'Post beating Voldy butterbeer fest'! When Ron has a butterbeer too many & finally plucks up the courage.... Yes yes... I'm getting lost in my own little world here... sorry!
Sleeping Beauty, I don't see Hermione settling down straight away... but she might do eventually, if she met the right person (maybe she already has ). Actually I don't see any of them marrying straight out of school ... they'll only be seventeen when the series ends (well Ron will be eighteen).
I can see Hermione heading off to college... (if there are any in the Wizard World) or perhaps going to work in the Ministry... Harry might go to Auror school & Ron... hmmm, either to play for the Cannons or work in the Ministry... but sorry going off topic ...
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timrew - Jul 27, 2004 2:49 pm (#1614 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Czarina: "....and they'd probably finish off like the wizarding equivalent of the Buckets on "Keeping Up Appearances."
Hermione: 'Harry! Don't you dare come in here trailing all that mud from the Quidditch pitch! Take off those muddy boots! And I suppose you want me to wash those filthy robes?'
Harry: 'I -"
Hermione: 'And little Gilderoy's crying again. He probably wants his nappy changing. Will you see to that while I get the dinner ready?'
Harry: 'In a -'
Hermione: 'What a day I've had! Out to the shops at nine, S.P.E.W. meeting at ten, Knitting hats for the House Elves for two hours, then taking Gilderoy for his daily constitutional; and then getting your evening meal ready, while you're out enjoying yourself playing Quidditch!'
Harry: 'But I -'
The phone rings. Hermione waves at Harry to shut up. She answers it.
Hermione: 'Potter? I think you'll find that's pronounced, Poetair! What can I do for you? You want to speak to Harry? What name is it?
She covers the phone speaker
Harry! There's a Tom Riddle wants to speak to you. Sounds as common as muck! Did you meet him playing Quidditch?'
And so on......
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soldierboy - Jul 27, 2004 2:54 pm (#1615 of 2916)
82nd Airborne Hooah!
I'm hoping for (as has been said) one big weasely family! I think that would be cool. I mean the greatest thing JK could give Harry (short of his parents/siruis back) is to make Harry and Hermione a part of the family they love so dearly. Beside in R/HR case, Opposites attract!
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Catherine - Jul 27, 2004 3:23 pm (#1616 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tim,
That was positively brilliant. Your SPEW factor is at an all time high....
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TomProffitt - Jul 27, 2004 4:10 pm (#1617 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Tim you are my hero! er, role model, or something.
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Green Eyes - Jul 27, 2004 4:34 pm (#1618 of 2916)
Okay, I'm back...I couldn't stay away. So, sue me!!
Soldier boy...R/Hr are NOT opposites!!!! She has the emotional range of a teaspoon just like Ron!!!! Look at how Hr treats Harry - constantly denies him his feelings..."Oh stop feeling all misunderstood!" "Are - You - Insane?" "Oh Harry, you were a bit tactless." I can go on and on...She puts her foot in her mouth when she talks to Luna...insulting the Quibbler, and Luna's belief in the various mythical creatures.
The fact that Ron goes at it with Hermione shows how much they are actually ALIKE...because they don't hate each other at the end of the day...they like the argument. It's a kind of foreplay! Ron likes Hermione, and Hermione likes Ron...Harry observed this in GOF when they were fighting and again in OOTP when he compares them to M/M Weasley...even Sirius compares Hr to Molly. I'll bet when they finally act on their feelings for one another, then the fighting will subside...some!
A great example of Hermione's inability to understand Harry's feelings is the scene in OOTP when she comes to Grimmauld Place instead of going skiing with her parents for Christmas. Harry is locked up in the attic feeling "misunderstood." She surprises him and because he isn't ashamed in front of her as she wasn't at the hosptial to overhear the conversation about him being posssessed, he opens the door to her (thus opening himself up to her). What does she do? She lures him down to his bedroom...fire/sandwiches and basically sets him up. He finds Ron and Ginny waiting. Hermione then askes "So, how are you feeing?" AS IF SHE DOESN'T ALREADY KNOW!!! If Hermione had any intuitive feelings toward Harry, she would have stayed up in the attic and talked to him privately and tried to help him through the problem. Now, understand...This is Hermione...we love her as she is. It just makes her a bad candidate for a romantic partner for Harry.
As of book five...Ginny is showing the most promise of being an intuitive match for Harry. And as I mentioned on the Ginny Weasley thread, its not just because of their connections to LV...Ginny knows how Harry feels because she feels the same way. Look at Harry's experience with the Dursley's...constantly put down, told you're abnormal (insane) etc. Ginny wasn't abused but she's the youngest of 7 and the only girl..."you're too young", "you're too small." Not allowed to fly with the brooms, she had to sneak them...Harry never listens to Hermione even though 9 times out of 10 she is right...why? The delivery. Ginny just circumvents her brothers/mother at times and does what she wants...even though they may not want her to do something for her own saftey. Look at how Molly humiliated her in front of the entire Order when she sent her to bed. That was more about Molly's need to control someone/something than it was because Ginny was too young to hear. How would you feel having that done to you? Ginny wants to be given a bit of credit/respect ....so does Harry. The people he listens to the most are those who treat him more like an adult (Sirius, Lupin etc.). *whew...wipes forehead*
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TomProffitt - Jul 27, 2004 4:43 pm (#1619 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I like it, Green Eyes.
I find the Ron-Hermione 'ship to be the one in the books with the most evidence (Not gonna repeat it, but pretty much agree with Green eyes).
The problem is I don't see any good evidence for a Harry anybody 'ship. But by what Jo has said on her site and in interviews he is certain to have at least one more.
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tracie1976 - Jul 27, 2004 4:54 pm (#1620 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
How is Hermione getting Harry out of the room with Buckbeak setting him up or luring him? I just don't understand that. Does it say anywhere that she knew Ron and Ginny were in the bedroom? No. For goodness sakes, she still has snow in her hair and her cheeks are still pink from the cold and/or from running up the stairs to get to Harry when Harry opens the door. She probably knew about the fire and sandwiches if Mrs. Weasley opened the front door and then told her. We don't know what happened between the few moments of the front door opening for Hermione to Harry opening the door where he was at.
One event is suppose to know that Ginny and Harry knows what each other feels? How is being picked on by her brothers the same as the abuse Harry went through with the Dursleys? Being picked on by siblings is natural. Being thrown into a cupboard to sleep/live in is not natural. Having food withheld from you as a form of punishment isn't natural. Sure Ginny may feel like she's getting the worse of it all but thats because she has no other girls at home to talk to...she possibly feels out numbered by her brothers. Plus being the only girl, the parents probably do feel like they have to be over-protective of her.
I'm sorry but I'm just not seeing it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 27, 2004 5:05 pm (#1621 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I think she did know about Ron and Ginny being there. How could she know that Harry had locked himself away from everyone unless one of them wrote her at her parents' and told her. I think it was a plan on the part of all three of them to confont him.... I can see how this points to them being good friends who are worried about their other friend, but I don't see how this points to a 'ship, one way or the other....
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Kieran Burke - Jul 27, 2004 7:06 pm (#1622 of 2916)
Tracie you have a point that Harry's and Ginny's pasts are very different but Green Eyes wasn't really arguing that, she was saying they have a mutual understanding. Harry was treated in a certain way to the extreme while Ginny was treated alot better yes but nevertheless it does give them an understanding. The way Ginny deals with Harry is far more effective than the way Hermione deals with him. When he's out of order Ginny lets him know whereas Hermione just gets scared. When he needs to talk Ginny listened to him in the library, Hermione would have said "Don't be ridiculous Harry you can't talk to Sirius. Do some homework, it alwasy cheers me up!". In my opinion she is much more suited to Ron who needs to be mothered a bit, probably because he's used to it from Molly, whereas Harry needs a companion who understands him but at the same time isn't afraid to let him know when he needs to calm down. So far the person most suiting this description in my opinion is Ginny.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 27, 2004 8:06 pm (#1623 of 2916)
Yet when Harry yells at Hermione, she doesn't nag him at all.
"Harry, you're absolutely right; I'd be furious if it were me..." etc. And she also agreed to let him try to contact Sirius after The Vision.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm (#1624 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Whoa, hang on a second. They are still 15. We know Wizards live as long as 150. Why do they have to get married after leaving school? Now, Timrew has written a rather unfair scenario after a H/Hr wedding about Hermione ignoring Harry's feelings in post 1614. That is absolutely ridiculous. If you haven't noticed, Tim, Hermione nearly always asks Harry his opinion or views. So, somebody sees compariso between Arthur/Molly and Ron/Hermione? I don't see a single comparison. Ar/Mo don't bicker. It's Molly who shouts. Arthur is usually quiet. The only argument they have had is about telling about Black being after Harry's blood in PoA. It was a "Life-Death" argument which H/Hr have rather than silly bickerings between R/Hr. If anyone predicts a H/G ending, they can not ignore a H/Hr ending. Both those 'ships have same arguments but arguments for H/Hr 'ship are a bit stronger.
--Michief Managed--
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 28, 2004 2:32 am (#1625 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
TIM : 'Potter? I think you'll find that's pronounced, Poetair!
That certainly brought a smile or three to my face this Wednesday morning.... *wipes tears from eyes* too funny Tim... too funny!
Tornedo, Tim was just doing a paraody on the UK TV show 'Keeping up Appearances' I don't think it's any slight on H/Hr.
I'm not sure how many people here are familiar with that show .... but the main characters name is Hyacinth Bucket (played by Patricia Routledge)... but she insists that everyone calls her Bouquet (like the bunch of flowers) ... shes a bit of a social snob & it leads to some comic moments, much to the annoyance of her poor long suffering husband
Hmmm I wonder would Patricia be interested in the role of Umbridge... hmm, might suggest that on the cast thread.
Well done Tim, I found it rather amusing actually!
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 4:25 am (#1626 of 2916)
Tornedo, "If you haven't noticed, Tim, Hermione nearly always asks Harry his opinion or views."
Asking one's opinion or views does not mean she listens to them! Hermione think she is correct before she even asks. Only upon Ron's pushing does she bend. I think she still has her priorities mixed up but is a work in progress.
Also, about OotP when Hermione came up to Harry's hide a way, she knew that Ron and Ginny were in the bedroom waiting:
OotP: "Oh, don't lie, Harry" she (Hermione) said impatiently, "Ron and Ginny say you've been hiding from everyone since you got back from St. Mungo's."
Enough said. She knew and set him up to talk to Ron, Ginny and herself. She didn't lie to Harry but skirted around the whole truth when she told Harry that Mrs. Weasley made sandwiches and made a fire. She failed to mention that R and G were there.
If there ever was going to be a close moment for H/Hr, this would have been the best opportunity, IMO. Two teenagers, one in dire need of a talking too, and the other (Hermione) getting in there and being supportive one on one.
DripPan
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 4:53 am (#1627 of 2916)
Just thought of a relationship that I don't think has ever been mentioned:
Sirius' motorcycle is missing. I think Arthur got ahold of it and did magic to it. He then gave it back to Hagrid (who has it at Hogwart's).
Now, the motorcycle goes into the Forbidden Forest and runs into none other than the Anglia. It is love at first site!!
Now, I know alot of you are going to say this isn't "true love", but a "mechanical love", but, IMO, it is better than no love at all.....
DripPan
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timrew - Jul 28, 2004 10:41 am (#1628 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Apologies, Tornedo. No offence meant! As Fawkes has said, I was just doing a parody on the UK TV show 'Keeping up Appearances'. Any slight on Hermione was purely unintentional!
But DripPan has a point. Hermione may ask Harry his views, but doesn't necessarily listen to them all the time. Besides, when it all boils down to it, I'm a Harry/Ginny shipper!
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Star Crossed - Jul 28, 2004 10:44 am (#1629 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Timrew, you may you need a bigger ship, afterall, there seems to be a fair few H/G shippers around here, and we can't have them all sitting in that boat you're in. ;D
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Professor V - Jul 28, 2004 12:36 pm (#1630 of 2916)
I've always thought that it would end up Hr/R and H/G. But every so often I have doubts about it, yesterday was one of those days. I was listening to OotP on my way to the doctor's office, in the chapters where H and Hr meet Grawp. Harry is physically protective of Hermione and it is the same in the 3rd movie.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 28, 2004 12:39 pm (#1631 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Then again, Harry appears to be protective of alot of people in danger. He saved Diddikins too, but I am guessing that they won't be shipping in this lifetime.
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Kasse - Jul 28, 2004 12:40 pm (#1632 of 2916)
IMO being physically protective is just like a brother trying to protect his sister he does ot mind being physical with her becsue he does not have romantic feelings towards her. In the book we see him questioning himself about holding Cho's hand and in the movies we see how uncomfortable Ron and Hermione get whenever they physical toward one aother. Physical contact only makes them nervous/uncomfortable when they have romantic feelings towards somone.
R/Hr and H/G all the way!
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Professor V - Jul 28, 2004 1:11 pm (#1633 of 2916)
I guess it more the way he was physically protective of her that worries me. It seems more like foreshadowing, you know the early chemistry. And sometimes the Hr/R plot seems obvious, and anytime something seems obvious to me I get worried, as I'm usually wrong.
Did that make any sense?
I'm with you Kasse, R/Hr and H/G all the way!
Does anybody else feel like a cheerleader?
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Czarina II - Jul 28, 2004 2:14 pm (#1634 of 2916)
"Does anyone else feel like a cheerleader?"
Nope. ;-)
I agree that Hermione/Ron; Harry/Ginny just seems too obvious or idealistic/romantic, but we ARE reading a fictional fantasy series here! Also, wizarding Britain is rather like a small town where it is entirely possible for a person to marry their childhood sweetheart or to marry their best friend's sibling. It is more likely than in a larger setting, that is.
One final note that I can't stress enough: Harry protects Hermione because they are FRIENDS! A boy with Harry's personality always looks out for his friends when they are in danger. Of course, I mean in IMMEDIATE danger, because Harry isn't the most observant of people. Hermione and Harry are quite close friends -- almost siblings in relationship. Harry also looks out for Ron, Neville, Ginny, Luna, and other DA members; he even watches out for Draco in PS!
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timrew - Jul 28, 2004 3:00 pm (#1635 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Star Crossed: Timrew, you may you need a bigger ship
What was that quote from the Police Chief in 'Jaws', Aly? "We need a bigger boat!"
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 3:20 pm (#1636 of 2916)
Come on. Is that all you can muster. The only argument R/H kept defending is Harry and Hermione are just friends. More or less. You seem not to stray far from it. Any other arguments you presented can also be used by H/Hr ship.
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Catherine - Jul 28, 2004 3:37 pm (#1637 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Star Crossed: 'Timrew, you may you need a bigger ship."
Um, yeah, is there room for everybody in that boat? Where's Beaky going to sit?"
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 3:39 pm (#1638 of 2916)
One of the things I mentioned earlier I would like to bring it up.
When Hermione went to get Harry from Buckbeak's room, why didn't she sit in there with him? To get the story from his mouth vice from Ginny and Ron. This would have been a great "alone" and supportive moment on her part.
Instead, she hid the truth from him. That was that Ginny and Ron were waiting for him too!
DripPan
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 3:42 pm (#1639 of 2916)
Beaky can alway sit on the roof coz most of room are occupied though
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tracie1976 - Jul 28, 2004 3:53 pm (#1640 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
DripPan:When Hermione went to get Harry from Buckbeak's room, why didn't she sit in there with him? To get the story from his mouth vice from Ginny and Ron. This would have been a great "alone" and supportive moment on her part.
Instead, she hid the truth from him. That was that Ginny and Ron were waiting for him too!
Do we know for a fact that Hermione knew they were waiting for them? No. Maybe Ron and Ginny knew that Hermione would be the only one to get Harry out of the room and knew that she would want to talk to him somewhere so they waited and invited themselves to the conversation.
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Star Crossed - Jul 28, 2004 3:56 pm (#1641 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jul 28, 2004 3:59 pm
What was that quote from the Police Chief in 'Jaws', Aly? "We need a bigger boat!"
Seeing as I get scared just hearing the music and I never could stand to watch the movie, I'm going to say no, I didn't take it from there. More like the Taco Bell dog.
Come on. Is that all you can muster. The only argument R/H kept defending is Harry and Hermione are just friends. More or less. You seem not to stray far from it. Any other arguments you presented can also be used by H/Hr ship.
Actually, we can and have "mustered" a lot more evidence. Most of this thread is arguments for R/Hr. But you can only say the same thing for so long. If people don't want to believe it, they won't. It doesn't matter if the author herself says "R/Hr forever!" There will be doubters.
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TomProffitt - Jul 28, 2004 4:07 pm (#1642 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I posted this earlier on the Hermione thread.
The first time I read the scene where Harry has had his first snogging with Cho and has returned to the common room, I had the distinct feeling that Ron and Hermione had been doing a bit of snogging on their own while waiting for Harry to get back.
Did anyone else read that between the lines?
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 4:07 pm (#1643 of 2916)
All I am saying is that most of you interpreted the book in the literal sense. You forgot to dissect what are the hidden implications of the scenes and thought up the motives of the characters. One of the characters kiss another character, you will make conclusion that this is an another victory for the ship. This may be not necessary true. You must analyze what is in the sorroundings and events that lead to it. Who knows it may be an attempt to confuse us.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 4:27 pm (#1644 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 28, 2004 4:28 pm
The trouble with most Harry 'ships is they are virtually indistinguishable. Nearly all his current relationships are platonic. None of them have much energy. He does feel some pity towards Luna at the end of OoP, but that's about it.
He sticks up for Hermione. He sticks up for Ginny. Hermione senses his mood and supports him. Ginny senses his mood and supports him. Substitute names and the situations are identical.
There is a decided lack of energy in the whole lot. Harry is a good friend and acquantance to them all.
This is why I am a strong R/H 'shipper. I don't like it much. I think it will be a flash-in-the-pan, but it seems to have far and above the greatest amount of energy of all of the 'ships. I've tried to tear it down in preference to my favorite one, H/H, but R/H makes the most sense according to canon.
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TomProffitt - Jul 28, 2004 4:36 pm (#1645 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Marcus,
I agree with you on the lack of evidence for Harry 'ships.
Jo's description of Lily and James relationship only truly starting in the seventh year (through Remus and Sirius) makes me suspect we won't see Harry's "true" 'ship until the seventh book and that it may well come as a complete surprise.
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 4:42 pm (#1646 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, I thought your favorite ship was H/P.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 4:45 pm (#1647 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
It is also entirely possible that Harry will have no 'ship by the end of the series. He will be only 17 after all.
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 4:47 pm (#1648 of 2916)
tracie1976, "Do we know for a fact that Hermione knew they were waiting for them? No."
She knew: (boy, I got to learn to italic stuff)
OotP, Pg 498, Hard Cover American:
This is right after she got Harry to go with her.
"Harry followed her back to the second floor. When he entered the bedroom he was rather surprised to see both Ron and Ginny waiting for them, sitting on Ron's bed."
Hermione then talks about arriving on the Knight's Bus and about her leaving Hogwart's. Then she sits next to Ginny. Here is the converstation:
"How're you feeling?" asked Hermione.
"Fine" said Harry stiffly.
"Oh, don't lie, Harry," she said impatiently, "Ron and Ginny say you've been hiding from everyone since you got back from St. Mungo's."
"They do, do they?" said Harry, glaring at Ron and Ginny. Ron looked down at his feet but Ginny seemed quite unabashed.
End Book quoting.
Now, this states clearly that Hermione knew Ron and Ginny was waiting. It also states that she knew why Harry was hiding.
She could have handled it by herself to show support for Harry one on one, but she didn't.
If this wasn't planned, why would she go to the bedroom, with a major chance of Ron being there? Chances were that Ron was since Ron and Harry shared it. Or, why didn't she tell Ron to stay out of the bedroom? And Ginny being there also?
Also, upon entering the room, we get a reaction from Harry of surprise. Hermione's reaction: Oh, I took the Knight's Bus, had to wait for end of term, so on and so forth. There was no reaction from her. Why? Because she knew Ron and Ginny was there!
Yep, she set Harry up and missed a great opportunity to show her support and love for his feelings......
DripPan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 4:47 pm (#1649 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Total hatred, the evidence presented by R/Hr 'shippers is not limited to "Harry and Hermione are just friends". Are you discounting all the talks of psychology and all the quotes from JKR that have also been discussed in this thread?
EDIT: I have to agree with Star Crossed, the evidence has been presented from all parties. People will either choose to believe it or not. That's the wonderful thing about this forum, we can agree to disagree.....
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 4:54 pm (#1650 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
total hatred - Prefect Marcus, I thought your favorite ship was H/P.
What my favorite 'ship is, and what I think will actually happen are two different things. :-)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Many people here associate the trio to Janes,Sirius and Lily. Harry=James Hermione=Lily Ron=Sirius
I believe it is more logical that Sirius=Harry and Ron=James.I am making this comparison personality wise. The R/H shippers might use this for their own advantage but I see a hole in this argument. It is true that they are similar in personalities but it is not the personality alone that determine love between two people. Ron and James are different pople so is Hermione and Lily. I don't believe that history will repeat itself. The true judge is the two people concerned.
You will agree with me that Ron fancy Hermione and Hermione fancy Harry. The big question is Do Hermione fancy Ron back and Do Harry fancy Hermione too. The winner is the one who find love in two ways, to loved and be loved
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 26, 2004 2:46 pm (#1602 of 2916)
You will agree with me that Ron fancy Hermione and Hermione fancy Harry.-- total hatred
No, I wouldn't agree with that at all. You are also wrong to say that I compared Ron and Hermione to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. No, Harry is the one who made that observation. What an odd thing for JKR to do, to have him, Harry, observe. What's more, it is entirely too facile to say that Hermione=law abider and Harry=rule breaker. Hermione is usually smack in the middle of the various bits of rule breaking. She stole the boomslang skin for the Polyjuice Potion and readily admitted that brewing the same would have been breaking the rules. It was even her who tricked Lockhart into signing the permission slip. She used the time-turner for an improper purpose (with DD's consent, sure, but improper nontheless), she helped Harry prepare for the tri-wizard tournament although, technically, he was supposed to work alone, and although she had some reservations, she did continue with the DA in spite of its illegal status. Hermione breaks rules all the time.
As for Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, the only real rule-bending one sees from Mr. Weasley is that he bewitched the Ford Anglia. In any event, the clues for Ron + Hermione are simply too plain. If Harry thinking that the two of them remind him of a married couple doesn't convince you, then nothing will until the books play out.
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total hatred - Jul 26, 2004 3:01 pm (#1603 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 26, 2004 7:45 pm
Hermione more or less abides with the rules. Okay, next argument to the personality similarities. Harry and Arthur prefers a simple live. I think Ron has a comment that his father is capable to be Minister of Magic but choose not too. I hope you will not contradict me here Loopy Lupin. I don't need to say something for Harry since we already knew how simple he is. Molly and Hermione are sort of a pain in the arse. They nag till you drop. They can show their kind heart once in a while. They relies heavily on logic and in case of doubt, consults a book.
This will be an interesting discussion. Too Bad I am now sleepy. Bye
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 26, 2004 4:40 pm (#1604 of 2916)
Well, have a nice nap.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 26, 2004 5:28 pm (#1605 of 2916)
Hmmm... I heard somewhere that Ron fancies Hermione, Hermione fancies Harry, and Harry fancies Ron...
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drippan - Jul 26, 2004 5:44 pm (#1606 of 2916)
Okay, here's a question for all you 'shippers:
For the H/Hr shippers: How do you predict there future would be like? How many kids? How would they raise their kids? Or anything else you like to mention.....
For the R/Hr shippers: Same questions....
For the H/G shippers: Same questions.....
And for H/P shippers: Same questions.......
Just wondering what you think each long term relationship would hold true?
DripPan
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 26, 2004 5:58 pm (#1607 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 26, 2004 5:59 pm
R/Hr - I predict it will be a flash-in-the-pan thing. They might even become engaged, but they will never make it to the altar. They are too dissimilar to last. So no kids.
H/P - Excellent question. Harry and Pansy Potter will become the new Frank and Alice Longbottom. They will be a husband/wife auror team that is the terror of the dark wizard set, at least until Pansy becomes pregnant. She will then have morning sickness for nine solid months, forcing her to resign and stay in bed muttering dark things about the man who did this thing to her. But little Harry Ronald Potter will be joy of their lives and she will remain home happy and content -- until she gets pregnant again. With another nine months of morning sickness staring her in the face and a toddler in nappies to take care of, she will in no uncertain terms tell Harry to "see a healer and get things fixed, or I will fix them for you. Your choice!"
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KWeldon - Jul 26, 2004 6:04 pm (#1608 of 2916)
You're wrong, Marcus, as usual.
Their firstborn will be James Sirius Potter.
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TomProffitt - Jul 26, 2004 6:08 pm (#1609 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
One Big Happy Weasley Family.
I guess I really don't have any proof or anything, it just feels right. (really not my style, I'm much more of an evidence, logic, and proof kinda guy)
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Star Crossed - Jul 26, 2004 6:50 pm (#1610 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
R/Hr - They sort of remind me of that based on real life movie 'Cheaper By the Dozen'. It starts off with the mother saying she always wanted a big family when her sister died (Does that not scream Hermione? She had a sister, but it never really happened, so she pretty much died.) And the father had a lot of brothers and sisters. Anyways. Ron and Hermione will have eight kids. I did the mathematics. I wrote out their names, got out my Arithmancy chart, calculated everything, and came up with eight. Ron and Hermione will raise their kids with a balance of love from each. Whenever Ron comes home from work as an auror, his kids will greet him and demand he tells them a story, and Hermione will lay down papers from work where she is a Thinker, and help her husband tell the stories. Then everyone will rush into the kitchen and held prepare dinner. Hermione prepares vegetables, Ron prepares the roast beef, the oldest two work on making dessert, the next oldest two work on lemonade, the next oldest two make a salad, and the two youngest set the table.
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Czarina II - Jul 26, 2004 8:40 pm (#1611 of 2916)
LOL Starcrossed!!! (and Marcus, yours was pretty good too!)
I pretty much agree with Starcrossed's assessment of the R/Hr future, even if it is rather fanciful.
Since my favourite scenario is the One Happy Weasley Family one (though I am still technically undecided):
Ron and Hermione will get married shortly after Hogwarts. Ron becomes an Auror, Hermione will work for a new regime at the Ministry when she is not looking after her children. I see them having a good-sized brood of red-heads -- five or six maybe. They will live at the Burrow so Granny Molly can help with the kids when their parents are working -- but Hermione will make sure she has a mother-in-law suite!
Harry and Ginny will get married some time after Ginny graduates. Harry will become an Auror and Ginny will do something much less dangerous. Harry might eventually become the Minister for Magic, as per Trelawney's "prophecy". And, following along this line, they will have twelve little Potters.
Both couples would be quite happy, I suppose. (shrugs)
Now...
Harry and Hermione would be downright miserable together. Hermione would constantly badger Harry and they'd probably finish off life the wizarding equivalent of the Buckets on "Keeping Up Appearances." They'd both be quite frustrated with each other most of the time.
Harry and Pansy? Hmm...don't know, have to think about it. Happy for awhile maybe, but I can't see it lasting. This is the girl who attached herself to Draco like their robes were made out of velcro for a year.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 26, 2004 9:33 pm (#1612 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I never see Hermione marrying for some reason. Harry, Luna, Ron, even Neville, but not Hermione. She is too strong-willed and I do not think that she has the patience for marrying someone who is not, well, like her.
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 27, 2004 2:38 am (#1613 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Czarina... Harry & Hermione like Richard & Hyacinth Bucket.... LOL *wipes tear from eye* Thanks for that!
Must say I'm a hopeless romantic when I think of the 'ships & I'd like to see the 'ol 'One Big Happy Weasley Family'....
Harry will probably have one or two more romantic interludes, say with Ginny... just for example , long before Ron & Hermione get there... hee hee! By the time they figure it out, they'll be collecting their pensions.. never mind thoughts of marriage & kids Indeed, knowing Rowling, it'll be in the last chapter of book 7 at the 'Post beating Voldy butterbeer fest'! When Ron has a butterbeer too many & finally plucks up the courage.... Yes yes... I'm getting lost in my own little world here... sorry!
Sleeping Beauty, I don't see Hermione settling down straight away... but she might do eventually, if she met the right person (maybe she already has ). Actually I don't see any of them marrying straight out of school ... they'll only be seventeen when the series ends (well Ron will be eighteen).
I can see Hermione heading off to college... (if there are any in the Wizard World) or perhaps going to work in the Ministry... Harry might go to Auror school & Ron... hmmm, either to play for the Cannons or work in the Ministry... but sorry going off topic ...
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timrew - Jul 27, 2004 2:49 pm (#1614 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Czarina: "....and they'd probably finish off like the wizarding equivalent of the Buckets on "Keeping Up Appearances."
Hermione: 'Harry! Don't you dare come in here trailing all that mud from the Quidditch pitch! Take off those muddy boots! And I suppose you want me to wash those filthy robes?'
Harry: 'I -"
Hermione: 'And little Gilderoy's crying again. He probably wants his nappy changing. Will you see to that while I get the dinner ready?'
Harry: 'In a -'
Hermione: 'What a day I've had! Out to the shops at nine, S.P.E.W. meeting at ten, Knitting hats for the House Elves for two hours, then taking Gilderoy for his daily constitutional; and then getting your evening meal ready, while you're out enjoying yourself playing Quidditch!'
Harry: 'But I -'
The phone rings. Hermione waves at Harry to shut up. She answers it.
Hermione: 'Potter? I think you'll find that's pronounced, Poetair! What can I do for you? You want to speak to Harry? What name is it?
She covers the phone speaker
Harry! There's a Tom Riddle wants to speak to you. Sounds as common as muck! Did you meet him playing Quidditch?'
And so on......
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soldierboy - Jul 27, 2004 2:54 pm (#1615 of 2916)
82nd Airborne Hooah!
I'm hoping for (as has been said) one big weasely family! I think that would be cool. I mean the greatest thing JK could give Harry (short of his parents/siruis back) is to make Harry and Hermione a part of the family they love so dearly. Beside in R/HR case, Opposites attract!
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Catherine - Jul 27, 2004 3:23 pm (#1616 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tim,
That was positively brilliant. Your SPEW factor is at an all time high....
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TomProffitt - Jul 27, 2004 4:10 pm (#1617 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Tim you are my hero! er, role model, or something.
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Green Eyes - Jul 27, 2004 4:34 pm (#1618 of 2916)
Okay, I'm back...I couldn't stay away. So, sue me!!
Soldier boy...R/Hr are NOT opposites!!!! She has the emotional range of a teaspoon just like Ron!!!! Look at how Hr treats Harry - constantly denies him his feelings..."Oh stop feeling all misunderstood!" "Are - You - Insane?" "Oh Harry, you were a bit tactless." I can go on and on...She puts her foot in her mouth when she talks to Luna...insulting the Quibbler, and Luna's belief in the various mythical creatures.
The fact that Ron goes at it with Hermione shows how much they are actually ALIKE...because they don't hate each other at the end of the day...they like the argument. It's a kind of foreplay! Ron likes Hermione, and Hermione likes Ron...Harry observed this in GOF when they were fighting and again in OOTP when he compares them to M/M Weasley...even Sirius compares Hr to Molly. I'll bet when they finally act on their feelings for one another, then the fighting will subside...some
! A great example of Hermione's inability to understand Harry's feelings is the scene in OOTP when she comes to Grimmauld Place instead of going skiing with her parents for Christmas. Harry is locked up in the attic feeling "misunderstood." She surprises him and because he isn't ashamed in front of her as she wasn't at the hosptial to overhear the conversation about him being posssessed, he opens the door to her (thus opening himself up to her). What does she do? She lures him down to his bedroom...fire/sandwiches and basically sets him up. He finds Ron and Ginny waiting. Hermione then askes "So, how are you feeing?" AS IF SHE DOESN'T ALREADY KNOW!!! If Hermione had any intuitive feelings toward Harry, she would have stayed up in the attic and talked to him privately and tried to help him through the problem. Now, understand...This is Hermione...we love her as she is. It just makes her a bad candidate for a romantic partner for Harry.
As of book five...Ginny is showing the most promise of being an intuitive match for Harry. And as I mentioned on the Ginny Weasley thread, its not just because of their connections to LV...Ginny knows how Harry feels because she feels the same way. Look at Harry's experience with the Dursley's...constantly put down, told you're abnormal (insane) etc. Ginny wasn't abused but she's the youngest of 7 and the only girl..."you're too young", "you're too small." Not allowed to fly with the brooms, she had to sneak them...Harry never listens to Hermione even though 9 times out of 10 she is right...why? The delivery. Ginny just circumvents her brothers/mother at times and does what she wants...even though they may not want her to do something for her own saftey. Look at how Molly humiliated her in front of the entire Order when she sent her to bed. That was more about Molly's need to control someone/something than it was because Ginny was too young to hear. How would you feel having that done to you? Ginny wants to be given a bit of credit/respect ....so does Harry. The people he listens to the most are those who treat him more like an adult (Sirius, Lupin etc.). *whew...wipes forehead*
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TomProffitt - Jul 27, 2004 4:43 pm (#1619 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I like it, Green Eyes.
I find the Ron-Hermione 'ship to be the one in the books with the most evidence (Not gonna repeat it, but pretty much agree with Green eyes).
The problem is I don't see any good evidence for a Harry anybody 'ship. But by what Jo has said on her site and in interviews he is certain to have at least one more.
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tracie1976 - Jul 27, 2004 4:54 pm (#1620 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
How is Hermione getting Harry out of the room with Buckbeak setting him up or luring him? I just don't understand that. Does it say anywhere that she knew Ron and Ginny were in the bedroom? No. For goodness sakes, she still has snow in her hair and her cheeks are still pink from the cold and/or from running up the stairs to get to Harry when Harry opens the door. She probably knew about the fire and sandwiches if Mrs. Weasley opened the front door and then told her. We don't know what happened between the few moments of the front door opening for Hermione to Harry opening the door where he was at.
One event is suppose to know that Ginny and Harry knows what each other feels? How is being picked on by her brothers the same as the abuse Harry went through with the Dursleys? Being picked on by siblings is natural. Being thrown into a cupboard to sleep/live in is not natural. Having food withheld from you as a form of punishment isn't natural. Sure Ginny may feel like she's getting the worse of it all but thats because she has no other girls at home to talk to...she possibly feels out numbered by her brothers. Plus being the only girl, the parents probably do feel like they have to be over-protective of her.
I'm sorry but I'm just not seeing it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 27, 2004 5:05 pm (#1621 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I think she did know about Ron and Ginny being there. How could she know that Harry had locked himself away from everyone unless one of them wrote her at her parents' and told her. I think it was a plan on the part of all three of them to confont him.... I can see how this points to them being good friends who are worried about their other friend, but I don't see how this points to a 'ship, one way or the other....
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Kieran Burke - Jul 27, 2004 7:06 pm (#1622 of 2916)
Tracie you have a point that Harry's and Ginny's pasts are very different but Green Eyes wasn't really arguing that, she was saying they have a mutual understanding. Harry was treated in a certain way to the extreme while Ginny was treated alot better yes but nevertheless it does give them an understanding. The way Ginny deals with Harry is far more effective than the way Hermione deals with him. When he's out of order Ginny lets him know whereas Hermione just gets scared. When he needs to talk Ginny listened to him in the library, Hermione would have said "Don't be ridiculous Harry you can't talk to Sirius. Do some homework, it alwasy cheers me up!". In my opinion she is much more suited to Ron who needs to be mothered a bit, probably because he's used to it from Molly, whereas Harry needs a companion who understands him but at the same time isn't afraid to let him know when he needs to calm down. So far the person most suiting this description in my opinion is Ginny.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 27, 2004 8:06 pm (#1623 of 2916)
Yet when Harry yells at Hermione, she doesn't nag him at all.
"Harry, you're absolutely right; I'd be furious if it were me..." etc. And she also agreed to let him try to contact Sirius after The Vision.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 27, 2004 11:47 pm (#1624 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Whoa, hang on a second. They are still 15. We know Wizards live as long as 150. Why do they have to get married after leaving school? Now, Timrew has written a rather unfair scenario after a H/Hr wedding about Hermione ignoring Harry's feelings in post 1614. That is absolutely ridiculous. If you haven't noticed, Tim, Hermione nearly always asks Harry his opinion or views. So, somebody sees compariso between Arthur/Molly and Ron/Hermione? I don't see a single comparison. Ar/Mo don't bicker. It's Molly who shouts. Arthur is usually quiet. The only argument they have had is about telling about Black being after Harry's blood in PoA. It was a "Life-Death" argument which H/Hr have rather than silly bickerings between R/Hr. If anyone predicts a H/G ending, they can not ignore a H/Hr ending. Both those 'ships have same arguments but arguments for H/Hr 'ship are a bit stronger.
--Michief Managed--
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Fawkes Forever - Jul 28, 2004 2:32 am (#1625 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
TIM : 'Potter? I think you'll find that's pronounced, Poetair!
That certainly brought a smile or three to my face this Wednesday morning.... *wipes tears from eyes* too funny Tim... too funny!
Tornedo, Tim was just doing a paraody on the UK TV show 'Keeping up Appearances' I don't think it's any slight on H/Hr.
I'm not sure how many people here are familiar with that show .... but the main characters name is Hyacinth Bucket (played by Patricia Routledge)... but she insists that everyone calls her Bouquet (like the bunch of flowers) ... shes a bit of a social snob & it leads to some comic moments, much to the annoyance of her poor long suffering husband
Hmmm I wonder would Patricia be interested in the role of Umbridge... hmm, might suggest that on the cast thread.
Well done Tim, I found it rather amusing actually!
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 4:25 am (#1626 of 2916)
Tornedo, "If you haven't noticed, Tim, Hermione nearly always asks Harry his opinion or views."
Asking one's opinion or views does not mean she listens to them! Hermione think she is correct before she even asks. Only upon Ron's pushing does she bend. I think she still has her priorities mixed up but is a work in progress.
Also, about OotP when Hermione came up to Harry's hide a way, she knew that Ron and Ginny were in the bedroom waiting:
OotP: "Oh, don't lie, Harry" she (Hermione) said impatiently, "Ron and Ginny say you've been hiding from everyone since you got back from St. Mungo's."
Enough said. She knew and set him up to talk to Ron, Ginny and herself. She didn't lie to Harry but skirted around the whole truth when she told Harry that Mrs. Weasley made sandwiches and made a fire. She failed to mention that R and G were there.
If there ever was going to be a close moment for H/Hr, this would have been the best opportunity, IMO. Two teenagers, one in dire need of a talking too, and the other (Hermione) getting in there and being supportive one on one.
DripPan
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 4:53 am (#1627 of 2916)
Just thought of a relationship that I don't think has ever been mentioned:
Sirius' motorcycle is missing. I think Arthur got ahold of it and did magic to it. He then gave it back to Hagrid (who has it at Hogwart's).
Now, the motorcycle goes into the Forbidden Forest and runs into none other than the Anglia. It is love at first site!!
Now, I know alot of you are going to say this isn't "true love", but a "mechanical love", but, IMO, it is better than no love at all.....
DripPan
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timrew - Jul 28, 2004 10:41 am (#1628 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Apologies, Tornedo. No offence meant! As Fawkes has said, I was just doing a parody on the UK TV show 'Keeping up Appearances'. Any slight on Hermione was purely unintentional!
But DripPan has a point. Hermione may ask Harry his views, but doesn't necessarily listen to them all the time. Besides, when it all boils down to it, I'm a Harry/Ginny shipper!
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Star Crossed - Jul 28, 2004 10:44 am (#1629 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Timrew, you may you need a bigger ship, afterall, there seems to be a fair few H/G shippers around here, and we can't have them all sitting in that boat you're in. ;D
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Professor V - Jul 28, 2004 12:36 pm (#1630 of 2916)
I've always thought that it would end up Hr/R and H/G. But every so often I have doubts about it, yesterday was one of those days. I was listening to OotP on my way to the doctor's office, in the chapters where H and Hr meet Grawp. Harry is physically protective of Hermione and it is the same in the 3rd movie.
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 28, 2004 12:39 pm (#1631 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Then again, Harry appears to be protective of alot of people in danger. He saved Diddikins too, but I am guessing that they won't be shipping in this lifetime.
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Kasse - Jul 28, 2004 12:40 pm (#1632 of 2916)
IMO being physically protective is just like a brother trying to protect his sister he does ot mind being physical with her becsue he does not have romantic feelings towards her. In the book we see him questioning himself about holding Cho's hand and in the movies we see how uncomfortable Ron and Hermione get whenever they physical toward one aother. Physical contact only makes them nervous/uncomfortable when they have romantic feelings towards somone.
R/Hr and H/G all the way!
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Professor V - Jul 28, 2004 1:11 pm (#1633 of 2916)
I guess it more the way he was physically protective of her that worries me. It seems more like foreshadowing, you know the early chemistry. And sometimes the Hr/R plot seems obvious, and anytime something seems obvious to me I get worried, as I'm usually wrong.
Did that make any sense?
I'm with you Kasse, R/Hr and H/G all the way!
Does anybody else feel like a cheerleader?
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Czarina II - Jul 28, 2004 2:14 pm (#1634 of 2916)
"Does anyone else feel like a cheerleader?"
Nope. ;-)
I agree that Hermione/Ron; Harry/Ginny just seems too obvious or idealistic/romantic, but we ARE reading a fictional fantasy series here! Also, wizarding Britain is rather like a small town where it is entirely possible for a person to marry their childhood sweetheart or to marry their best friend's sibling. It is more likely than in a larger setting, that is.
One final note that I can't stress enough: Harry protects Hermione because they are FRIENDS! A boy with Harry's personality always looks out for his friends when they are in danger. Of course, I mean in IMMEDIATE danger, because Harry isn't the most observant of people. Hermione and Harry are quite close friends -- almost siblings in relationship. Harry also looks out for Ron, Neville, Ginny, Luna, and other DA members; he even watches out for Draco in PS!
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timrew - Jul 28, 2004 3:00 pm (#1635 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Star Crossed: Timrew, you may you need a bigger ship
What was that quote from the Police Chief in 'Jaws', Aly? "We need a bigger boat!"
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 3:20 pm (#1636 of 2916)
Come on. Is that all you can muster. The only argument R/H kept defending is Harry and Hermione are just friends. More or less. You seem not to stray far from it. Any other arguments you presented can also be used by H/Hr ship.
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Catherine - Jul 28, 2004 3:37 pm (#1637 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Star Crossed: 'Timrew, you may you need a bigger ship."
Um, yeah, is there room for everybody in that boat? Where's Beaky going to sit?"
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 3:39 pm (#1638 of 2916)
One of the things I mentioned earlier I would like to bring it up.
When Hermione went to get Harry from Buckbeak's room, why didn't she sit in there with him? To get the story from his mouth vice from Ginny and Ron. This would have been a great "alone" and supportive moment on her part.
Instead, she hid the truth from him. That was that Ginny and Ron were waiting for him too!
DripPan
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 3:42 pm (#1639 of 2916)
Beaky can alway sit on the roof coz most of room are occupied though
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tracie1976 - Jul 28, 2004 3:53 pm (#1640 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
DripPan:When Hermione went to get Harry from Buckbeak's room, why didn't she sit in there with him? To get the story from his mouth vice from Ginny and Ron. This would have been a great "alone" and supportive moment on her part.
Instead, she hid the truth from him. That was that Ginny and Ron were waiting for him too!
Do we know for a fact that Hermione knew they were waiting for them? No. Maybe Ron and Ginny knew that Hermione would be the only one to get Harry out of the room and knew that she would want to talk to him somewhere so they waited and invited themselves to the conversation.
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Star Crossed - Jul 28, 2004 3:56 pm (#1641 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jul 28, 2004 3:59 pm
What was that quote from the Police Chief in 'Jaws', Aly? "We need a bigger boat!"
Seeing as I get scared just hearing the music and I never could stand to watch the movie, I'm going to say no, I didn't take it from there. More like the Taco Bell dog.
Come on. Is that all you can muster. The only argument R/H kept defending is Harry and Hermione are just friends. More or less. You seem not to stray far from it. Any other arguments you presented can also be used by H/Hr ship.
Actually, we can and have "mustered" a lot more evidence. Most of this thread is arguments for R/Hr. But you can only say the same thing for so long. If people don't want to believe it, they won't. It doesn't matter if the author herself says "R/Hr forever!" There will be doubters.
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TomProffitt - Jul 28, 2004 4:07 pm (#1642 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I posted this earlier on the Hermione thread.
The first time I read the scene where Harry has had his first snogging with Cho and has returned to the common room, I had the distinct feeling that Ron and Hermione had been doing a bit of snogging on their own while waiting for Harry to get back.
Did anyone else read that between the lines?
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 4:07 pm (#1643 of 2916)
All I am saying is that most of you interpreted the book in the literal sense. You forgot to dissect what are the hidden implications of the scenes and thought up the motives of the characters. One of the characters kiss another character, you will make conclusion that this is an another victory for the ship. This may be not necessary true. You must analyze what is in the sorroundings and events that lead to it. Who knows it may be an attempt to confuse us.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 4:27 pm (#1644 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Jul 28, 2004 4:28 pm
The trouble with most Harry 'ships is they are virtually indistinguishable. Nearly all his current relationships are platonic. None of them have much energy. He does feel some pity towards Luna at the end of OoP, but that's about it.
He sticks up for Hermione. He sticks up for Ginny. Hermione senses his mood and supports him. Ginny senses his mood and supports him. Substitute names and the situations are identical.
There is a decided lack of energy in the whole lot. Harry is a good friend and acquantance to them all.
This is why I am a strong R/H 'shipper. I don't like it much. I think it will be a flash-in-the-pan, but it seems to have far and above the greatest amount of energy of all of the 'ships. I've tried to tear it down in preference to my favorite one, H/H, but R/H makes the most sense according to canon.
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TomProffitt - Jul 28, 2004 4:36 pm (#1645 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Marcus,
I agree with you on the lack of evidence for Harry 'ships.
Jo's description of Lily and James relationship only truly starting in the seventh year (through Remus and Sirius) makes me suspect we won't see Harry's "true" 'ship until the seventh book and that it may well come as a complete surprise.
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total hatred - Jul 28, 2004 4:42 pm (#1646 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, I thought your favorite ship was H/P.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 4:45 pm (#1647 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
It is also entirely possible that Harry will have no 'ship by the end of the series. He will be only 17 after all.
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 4:47 pm (#1648 of 2916)
tracie1976, "Do we know for a fact that Hermione knew they were waiting for them? No."
She knew: (boy, I got to learn to italic stuff)
OotP, Pg 498, Hard Cover American:
This is right after she got Harry to go with her.
"Harry followed her back to the second floor. When he entered the bedroom he was rather surprised to see both Ron and Ginny waiting for them, sitting on Ron's bed."
Hermione then talks about arriving on the Knight's Bus and about her leaving Hogwart's. Then she sits next to Ginny. Here is the converstation:
"How're you feeling?" asked Hermione.
"Fine" said Harry stiffly.
"Oh, don't lie, Harry," she said impatiently, "Ron and Ginny say you've been hiding from everyone since you got back from St. Mungo's."
"They do, do they?" said Harry, glaring at Ron and Ginny. Ron looked down at his feet but Ginny seemed quite unabashed.
End Book quoting.
Now, this states clearly that Hermione knew Ron and Ginny was waiting. It also states that she knew why Harry was hiding.
She could have handled it by herself to show support for Harry one on one, but she didn't.
If this wasn't planned, why would she go to the bedroom, with a major chance of Ron being there? Chances were that Ron was since Ron and Harry shared it. Or, why didn't she tell Ron to stay out of the bedroom? And Ginny being there also?
Also, upon entering the room, we get a reaction from Harry of surprise. Hermione's reaction: Oh, I took the Knight's Bus, had to wait for end of term, so on and so forth. There was no reaction from her. Why? Because she knew Ron and Ginny was there!
Yep, she set Harry up and missed a great opportunity to show her support and love for his feelings......
DripPan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 4:47 pm (#1649 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Total hatred, the evidence presented by R/Hr 'shippers is not limited to "Harry and Hermione are just friends". Are you discounting all the talks of psychology and all the quotes from JKR that have also been discussed in this thread?
EDIT: I have to agree with Star Crossed, the evidence has been presented from all parties. People will either choose to believe it or not. That's the wonderful thing about this forum, we can agree to disagree.....
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 4:54 pm (#1650 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
total hatred - Prefect Marcus, I thought your favorite ship was H/P.
What my favorite 'ship is, and what I think will actually happen are two different things. :-)
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drippan - Jul 28, 2004 4:59 pm (#1651 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus, "What my favorite 'ship is, and what I think will actually happen are two different things."
Sort of like saying "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!"
DripPan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 5:15 pm (#1652 of 2916)
Let it snow!
To get away from the age old argument for a minute, my brother and I have been discussing the possibility of a Neville/Luna 'ship which someone brought up earlier in this thread. I didn't give much thought to this possible 'ship because I couldn't see what the appeal would be, but, as I've thought on it more, I can start to see it. If you look at a movie where a girl grows up with a very controlling family with high expectations, she very often ends up dating the guy on the motorcycle with the police record. Basically, she's pushing away from her controlling upbringing, leaning toward someone who will accept her as she is, leaning toward a less confining life, etc. We've all seen movies like that, I'm sure. Well, what do you get if it's a guy in the girl's place? He will either marry a girl that his family picked out and be miserable, or he will marry a girl that his family would disapprove of, who tends to be whimsical (as opposed to his family's set routines), is very accepting and open to new ideas (as opposed to his family's high expectations and confining beliefs), etc. In the guys own way, he is pushing away from his controlling upbringing. A good example of this type of romantic plot would be the US TV show 'Dharma and Gregg' (sp?). Neville certainly fits the guy's description. He grew up with high standards he couldn't achieve, but was still expected to, a very controlling grandmother, etc. Luna would be a good example of the whimsical, excepting girl that he might end up with. She (and her father as well) would certainly accept him as he is, no questions asked, would be very freeing for him as she doesn't seem to hold too strongly to confining beliefs, etc. (Hm, lots of etc in this post....). It certainly has me thinking more than it did before. Kudos to whoever brought this up before....
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Professor V - Jul 28, 2004 5:27 pm (#1653 of 2916)
I like it. But do you think that Luna can get over her crush on Ron?
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 5:35 pm (#1654 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Hm... I think so. I don't think it will be anything immediate, more something that comes along late in Book 6, in Book 7, or in the Epilogue.
You know, I didn't even get Luna's crush out of the text. My brother had to point out the references to me (that is, the brother that didn't even read the book!). I just figured it was all part of her whimsical personality. I've known quite a few people like that and it's sometimes hard to destinguish when they mean something and when they're just saying something that's just popped into their head....
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haymoni - Jul 28, 2004 6:04 pm (#1655 of 2916)
Neville didn't want anything to do with Luna on the train. Perhaps with his own shortcomings he did not want to further ruin his rep' by sitting with ole Loony.
I think he may feel differently now that they have been through the MOM battle together. While it may not be a 'ship, he at least won't try to run away from her!
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TomProffitt - Jul 28, 2004 6:06 pm (#1656 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't know how it is with teenage girls, but teenage guys can have a crush on eight different girls at once, fall madly in love with a different girl that fate drops in his lap, stay madly in love with her and start new crushes on another eight different girls. ( And the cute new teacher.)
I doubt crushes mean a whole lot, look at Cho and Harry.
I presume a "'ship" is meant to be a little more. (at least for the purpose of this thread.)
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 28, 2004 6:40 pm (#1657 of 2916)
I think Neville was probably just a little scared of Luna on the train - people who are slightly unusual or mentally unstable intimidate some people.
I do think that a Neville/Luna 'ship might happen - I'd like to see a Harry/Luna 'ship, but don't think it's likely.
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Kasse - Jul 28, 2004 7:14 pm (#1658 of 2916)
I think a Neville/Luna ship would be great. However I honestly do not see where Luna has a crush on Ron. At one point I actually thought she liked Harry (the part with the mistletoe) - any one with me on this?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 28, 2004 7:19 pm (#1659 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Kasse I agree with you. Perhaps she was looking at him funny because I doubt he would have noticed standing underneath the mistletoe if he were with Hermione.
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Professor Jeeves - Jul 28, 2004 8:14 pm (#1660 of 2916)
<-- Charisteas with the Euro 2004 trophy
Hi, Professor here, I'm really intrested in this 'shipping debate though I'm not committed towards any 'ship at the moment.
Now, lets see, the chances of a R/Hr 'ship is... 21.7066666666666666666666666666667%
The chances of a H/Hr 'ship are...10.686%
However, if there is a triangle between the trio; which I don't believe is possible, the chances of R/Hr 'ship decreases by 5.0035% and the chances of H/Hr 'ship increases by 4.03%
The chances of each of the trio forming a 'ship with somebody else are 43.8235% for Ron, 26.6666666666666666667% for Hermione and 10.33333% for Harry.
Best Regards, Jeeves
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Sir Tornado - Jul 28, 2004 8:32 pm (#1661 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Jeeves, nice to see you on the forum at last, though you've rather confused me there. Explain it to me later. Luna/Harry? No chance. They've just had one proper conversation with each other at the end of OotP. I believe that 9 times out of 10, Luna gets on Harry's nerves. Ginny/Harry, well, you have no canon evidence towards that 'ship. The only evidence you've got is the library scene which can be discarded easily by some tried and tested counter Arguments. I believe Green Eyes and myself have been through that sequence atleast twice a week. Hermione? Well, the only argument R/Hr 'shippers have got is "They are platonic friends." I have said again and again that "Are" refers to present tense and not future. They may become more than that in future.
Thanks!
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Star Crossed - Jul 28, 2004 8:35 pm (#1662 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Again, that is not the only argument R/Hr shippers have. We have many more in the past posts. By now, it's whether or not you will accept the evidence.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 28, 2004 8:37 pm (#1663 of 2916)
Just curious, about the Harry/Ginny 'ship, what is the "easily discarded" library scene?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 28, 2004 8:38 pm (#1664 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Tornedo, it is funny because I actually do not see canon evidence for a Harry Hermione ship. Well, we will all have to agree to disagree. Strange how the least important aspect of the books creates the largest amount of emnity.
Leila
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 9:14 pm (#1665 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Luke E.A. Lockhart - Just curious, about the Harry/Ginny 'ship, what is the "easily discarded" library scene?
It depends upon your prejudice. If it supports your POV, then it's 'vitally important'. If it doesn't, then it is "easily discarded".
:-)
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Professor Jeeves - Jul 28, 2004 11:22 pm (#1666 of 2916)
<-- Charisteas with the Euro 2004 trophy
Again, that is not the only argument R/Hr shippers have. -- Star Crossed
What are they?
Just curious, about the Harry/Ginny 'ship, what is the "easily discarded" library scene? --Luke E.A. Lockhart
I think Tornedo is refering to the scene where Harry is given his easter egg by Ginny.
If it supports your POV, then it's 'vitally important'. If it doesn't, then it is "easily discarded". --Prefect Marcus.
Right you are. I agree with you completely. That's why I don't support any 'ship. Don't want to be termed as "Prejudiced"
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 11:24 pm (#1667 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Professor Jeeves: What are they?
Jeeves, just read back up through this entire thread and you'll find them....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 29, 2004 12:04 am (#1668 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Right you are Sarah. But if you read through the entire thread, you'll also find out that there have been convincing counter-arguments to those arguments. If you ask me, there's not a single clear evidence given by JKR regarding any of the main 'ships
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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 12:32 am (#1669 of 2916)
Tornedo, maybe you can help me! I've tried getting this answered by H/Hr shippers.
In OotP, when Hermione went to Buckbeak's room, why didn't she spend time with Harry alone to show support and love?
I posted 3 posts: #1626, #1638 and #1648.
Hermione did know Ron and Ginny were waiting as shown in the last post and this was a set up. I know Hr/R/G are Harry's friends but if Hermione had any romantic feelings towards him, she missed a great opportunity to spend some quality alone time with him.
All three are there for Harry's support and as friends. Ron is Harry's best friend but doesn't say much, Ginny is over her crush (which is different from loving someone) on Harry and is facing him with the truth, so, I also take it that Hermione's is there also as a friend and doesn't say much.
Please, please help me to understand this!! Anybody can help not just Tornedo.
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Jul 29, 2004 1:16 am (#1670 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
DripPan, actually, I think JKR has made a big mistake in that scene. We are told that the Weasleys tell Hermione what happened in St. Mungos, and that Harry had been avoiding them. For Hermione to understand this, and take in the situation, it would take atleast 3-5 minutes. Then, the way by which the conversation goes about in Harry's room, it is obvious that they had rehearsed it before. The planning would take another 3-5 minutes. Yet, Hermione comes to Harry in Buckbeak's room almost as soon as she comes to GP12. (She still has snow in her hair!) Now, this is humanly impossible; even for Hermione. (I'm sure she doesn't have a time turner) I don't think Ron or Ginny could've owled Hermione; it's too risky.
As stated above; there are too many flaws in the above scene to interpret whether Hermione knew if Ron and Ginny were in Harry's room when she lured Harry there. May be, she wasn't expecting them to be there. Why did she not spend some quality time alone with him in Buckbeak's room? Well, Hermione's a clever girl. She knows better than to try to reason with Harry especially when he's not eaten all day.Add to the fact that they had Buckbeak tearing up rats every minute. Also, the room wasn't inhabited by any Human for many years. I bet it was a real mess; with grime, dust and Hippogryph droppings all over the floor. Surely, you should take these things in consideration.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 29, 2004 1:57 am (#1671 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: We are told that the Weasleys tell Hermione what happened in St. Mungos, and that Harry had been avoiding them. For Hermione to understand this, and take in the situation, it would take atleast 3-5 minutes. Then, the way by which the conversation goes about in Harry's room, it is obvious that they had rehearsed it before. The planning would take another 3-5 minutes. Yet, Hermione comes to Harry in Buckbeak's room almost as soon as she comes to GP12. (She still has snow in her hair!) Now, this is humanly impossible; even for Hermione.
I disagree that this is a flaw. She was told that Harry was avoiding everyone because of what happened at St Mungo's, but that doesn't mean she was told this when she got to 12 Grimmauld Place. She had to know to come somehow, versus spending the break with her parents. I think that most likely Ron and Ginny wrote to her and asked her to come. This would explain her knowing and the planning, if things were done via owl post.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 29, 2004 2:05 am (#1672 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ron and Ginny wouldn't owl Hermione. It's too risky. The letter could fall into wrong hands.
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haymoni - Jul 29, 2004 5:20 am (#1673 of 2916)
I'm sure Ron & Ginny could have coded the letter. Ron might not have thought to do it, but I'm sure Ginny did.
"Come to our new place ASAP. Our friend isn't talking."
Hermione's no dummy. She'd know they were talking about Harry.
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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 5:29 am (#1674 of 2916)
Thanks Tornedo!!! You're awesome!!!
Couple things though:
"She knows better than to try to reason with Harry especially when he's not eaten all day."
Well, Harry didn't go into the bedroom and start eating either, so he was still hungry but was being confronted by 3 people instead of 1.
I agree that maybe Buckbeak's room being a mess but I find animals being around very comforting when talking about a problem. But, like you stated, the conversation sounded rehearsed. She could easily told Ron and Ginny to leave her and Harry alone before arriving. She could have also spent more time getting his side of the story. Nobody knew what Harry was feeling (he didn't talk to any of them after St Mungo's).
IMO, I think this shows how Hermione feels about Harry. That she loves him as a dear friend. That she took him to the bedroom for a pre-planned intervention.
If there was a spark that Hermione had any other feelings, she missed her chance big time!!
BTW, I think an owl can be sent from 12GP without giving out the OotP's location. If they only talked about what was bothering Harry and not mention the OotP, anyone reading it would have no idea. Just like they did with Sirius in GoF, coded messages. Another thing is do they put return addresses on the envelopes? I get mail all the time without return addresses. And, one last thing, even if they wrote that the OotP HQ was located at 12GP, I don't think anyone would be able to read it, unless DD wrote it. He is the Secret Keeper.
"DripPan, actually, I think JKR has made a big mistake in that scene."
I knew you were EVIL! JKR make a mistake! NEVER! She just doesn't explain everything we want to know......
Thanks again for posting! You are great! Evil, yes, but still great!!
DripPan
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Kieran Burke - Jul 29, 2004 5:46 am (#1675 of 2916)
Tornedo, you can counter argue any arguement, that doesn't disregard it as evidence. It's like Marcus said, it just comes down to point of view. Alot of people are satisfied that there is plenty of evidence to support at R/Hr ship.
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Kasse - Jul 29, 2004 6:44 am (#1676 of 2916)
Correct me if I a m wrong but didn't JKR state that she had made it obvious who Hermione liked in the fourth book. That is where I base my R/H theory. I am sure I read somewhere that was what JKR had said on the topic of a love triangle.
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Crookshanks - Jul 29, 2004 6:46 am (#1677 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 29, 2004 6:50 am
Tornedo - Ron & Ginny wouldn't owl Hermione.
Wow ! 'owl' as a verb !!! Absolutely right there. Well, Harry was about to leave 12GP when he gets DD's order to stay where he is.This means that DD knew that Harry had eavesdropped on the conversation at the St.Mungo's ward.Who told Hermione about the vision and stuff ? DD & he obviously would've told her about this too IMO.There IS a flaw if snow still was in her hair.
I primarily don't understand why Ron & Ginny did nothing but leave Harry in great distress.At least Ron could've barged in & forced himself on Harry.After all he's Harry's best pal,isn't he ? And if Ginny did care about him, she would've told him that 'how-it-feels-being-possessed' thing much earlier.I dunno what this means ......
Drippan - ...if Hermione had any romantic feelings towards him, she missed a great opportunity to spend some quality alone time with him.
Hermione,to put it aptly,was diplomatic.She knew that Harry was distancing himself from the Weasleys & the best way to console him was to make Ron & Ginny admit in front of Harry that they had confidence in him.She did miss an opportunity there,but what was more pressing then was not to keep him alienated.Hermione's intervention obviously offered Harry some relief.We know Harry didn't feel ashamed in front of Hermione,while he should've.He was feeling clumsy sitting in the train amidst 'clean' people,though the crowd was blissfully ignorant of what he was going thru.This points towards the fact that if Harry wanted someone then,it was Hermione,and what's more,she was there.She wanted to get him out of trouble asap & what she did is consistent with what should've been done in principle.
Why then did she tell Harry that Ron & Ginny had told her everything ? She wanted Harry to feel that they were on his side too. And evidently he had a huge relief when Ginny told him that there was no way he could be possessed ?
But for people captaining the H/G 'ship ,I wanna ask the same question. Why didn't Ginny steal Harry's solitude to talk to him ? I'm sure that would have made him feel better than Hermione talking him out of it.
Opinions welcome.....(as always)
PS : I'm on shore now.... not sailing for the moment.Still deciding whether to embark the H/P 'ship with Marcus or to wait for some more time & so more arguments about that....
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 29, 2004 7:38 am (#1678 of 2916)
Nearly all his [Harry's] current relationships are platonic. None of them have much energy.-- Prefect Marcus
I was just curious what you meant by "energy." If its measured in terms of "ups and downs," then truly his most "energetic" relationship has been with Ron as they spent a good chunk of GoF mad at each other. Second would be Hermione as he was mad at her about the Firebolt for quite some time in POA. The Cho 'ship was, indeed, rather boring after all was said an done. I guess a "first crush" was a necessary evil before Harry moves on to *ahem* greener pastures.
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Crookshanks - Jul 29, 2004 7:54 am (#1679 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 29, 2004 8:00 am
I was just reading thru OotP and struck upon this theory after the Thestrals lecture....
Hermione would probably end up with Ron because may be she appreciates failure & not being in the thick of things, or simply,lack of fame more than death. What's Ron's grumble ? Hermione has the answer in GoF -- jealousy & poverty & playing 2nd fiddle to Harry. What's Harry's problem ? No parents & close encounters with death. Hermione has a certain amount of disregard about death ('We'll be dead,or worse,expelled' PS/SS) as is also evident in the Thestrals class (COMC - 'Wish I could see it !'). That would probably make her pity Ron more than Harry.May be the death of someone very close to Hermione will help her appreciate Harry's position,just like what Susan did. Sirius was certainly not close enough. Perhaps one of Hagrid,Ron or the Grangers.
Kasse,I'm with you.But conjecturing something is the last thing I'll do. Everytime I did it, JKR had me bowled for a duck. I've become sort of paranoid,trying to dissect straight-forward sentences in day-to-day conversations.And the rule of all these books seems to be --- 'What seems obvious is never obvious.' R/Hr may be obvious for now, but intricately woven with them are some H/Hr possibilities too.
Loopy, by energy Marcus might mean 'fuel for love' & not aggression.Someone's made a brilliant point by saying that Harry is very slow at realising, understanding, feeling & evolving thru relationships, given his pre-Hogwarts days.That's the reason may be Harry may end up being single,if alive or utmost find love (non-Choish) in someone in book 7.
Waiting to hear yells from H/Hr 'shippers.... Are there any left,by the way, other than my pal Tornedo ??
PS: I'm writing too much, amn't I ? Just can't help it....
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 29, 2004 8:28 am (#1680 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Crookshanks -- Loopy, by energy Marcus might mean 'fuel for love' & not aggression.
Right you are, Crookshanks. I have a personal dislike for the word "passion". It's been used so much (mainly by the entertainment media) that it has little meaning anymore. So I use energy instead.
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Hermione Weasley - Jul 29, 2004 8:53 am (#1681 of 2916)
crookshanks,
I personally would like to see a H/HR ship but like you: 'What seems obvious is never obvious.' R/Hr may be obvious for now, but intricately woven with them are some H/Hr possibilities too."
And I'm sure that this has been severely dissected but if JKR say that it is obvious who Hermione likes in the fourth book (GoF) then I'd have to say at an obvious glance: Viktor Krum, at a not so obvious glance: Harry. Why? Because even when Viktor is fawning over her, telling her he's never felt this way before, inviting her to his house etc. who is HR concerned with?? Harry. I can just see a mental picture in my mind: all three sitting side by side on the lake beach, Viktor tapping HR on the shoulder while HR gushes over Harry about rescueing Fleur's sister.
Needless to say, I'm a H/HR shipper but I just don't put anything past JRK.
Hermione
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Chris. - Jul 29, 2004 8:57 am (#1682 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
This is an argument that is going to continue until we have canon proof that it will happen. On both sides, the evidence depends on your PoV.
Neville and Luna? Hmm... it's okay, I suppose.
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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 10:10 am (#1683 of 2916)
crookshanks, "Why didn't Ginny steal Harry's solitude to talk to him ? I'm sure that would have made him feel better than Hermione talking him out of it."
Because Ginny had a boyfriend at the time!! She is well over her crush on Harry. She is a friend of Harry but not a close friend like Ron and Hermione. It's the same thing you asked "Why didn't Ron go bust down the door?" theory.
About Harry having Ginny talk him out of the room or in private, Harry wouldn't have allowed it. He is so ashamed what they all heard in the hospital. Also, you must admit, that Harry lacks a great deal with people who love him. Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, Ron, Hermione, Cho, DD, etc.
Oh, and one more thing, he liked Cho at the time!! He got his "kiss" right before Arthur's snake incident.
"Hermione,to put it aptly,was diplomatic.She knew that Harry was distancing himself from the Weasleys & the best way to console him was to make Ron & Ginny admit in front of Harry that they had confidence in him.She did miss an opportunity there,but what was more pressing then was not to keep him alienated."
So, she couldn't have told Harry herself that was said in the bedroom? That he was being "stupid"? That he couldn't have done it? That Ginny was also possessed by TR/LV? That he should go talk to Ginny?
Hermione only got him out of the attic. It was Ginny who called Harry out and got his head on straight. Ron didn't say anything until the very end then it was that he saw Harry in bed.
Diplomatic? Yep, she didn't tell him the whole truth about Ginny and Ron waiting for them. Wanting to help a friend out? Yes. Missing a major opportunity if there was a spark between her and Harry? Definitely. She was very impersonal throughout the whole thing. She was "impatient" with him.
BTW, I can see one flaw in my theory on Hermione's reaction. That is she knows Harry and Cho were a thing and didn't want to create any wake! Oh, well......but I still can't see where she couldn't have spent some alone time with him as a friend, especially if she likes him.
DripPan
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total hatred - Jul 29, 2004 4:09 pm (#1684 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 29, 2004 5:03 pm
The possible explaination that Hermione is not showing some romantic inclination to Harry is the fact that she still consider him as his bestfriend. She helping him as a friend without realizing that she had fallen in love with him.
Where the heck did you get that stupid idea Total_hatred if you ask me. The answer is simple. From a post of a R/Hr shipper.
->Please watch language.<-
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Star Crossed - Jul 29, 2004 4:18 pm (#1685 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Total Hatred, you confused me ten times over.
As for R/Hr being obvious...so? First off, JKR said it was obvious. Second, this isn't who's the bad guy, it's just who fancies who. It will never be the biggest picture, it's just showing they have hormones. She does not need to feed us red herrings one after another, she has to show evidence so we can say, "Oh, right, I saw that coming."
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Sir Tornado - Jul 30, 2004 6:16 am (#1686 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Allright, total hatred, you're confusing me here; are you still a H/Hr 'shipper, or have crossed over to R/Hr 'ship?
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Kasse - Jul 30, 2004 6:45 am (#1687 of 2916)
see the light total hatred, cross over, R/Hr all the way!
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Crookshanks - Jul 30, 2004 6:52 am (#1688 of 2916)
"Star Crossed - She does not need to feed us red herrings one after another, she has to show evidence so we can say, "Oh, right, I saw that coming."
Dear Friend, read thru this ----
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
The bottomline is that there is some unlikely 'ship that'll sail which would form the fulcrum of the story-line.There's no special reference to any of the trio.Harry,without the 'energy' required at the present, could as well fit into any of them (except Cho or Marietta, perhaps).So,nothing seems 'all that unlikely' for Harry.
But,the most obvious one now is the R/Hr 'ship.For once let me listen a 'yes' in unison.We really have a huge number of clues as of now.But I have a feeling that there could be some contradictory clues well hidden in between 'locally significant' events,which we might have dismissed as silly conversation or 'extra-information'.They might he hidden in the vicinity of the persistent R-Hr bickerings,may be in the class activities(Potions,DADA etc..) or may be even around regurgitating toilets.But realize the clues are laid out.What needs to be done is to try to decipher all possible meanings & moods of all insignificant statements & get something tangible out of it.
May be I'm acting 'Moody-ish', trying to read between lines even when it says "LV had returned" or whatever,but that'll at least make me read GoF & OotP once more..... The clues might be contradicting any 'ship,not just R/Hr,may be even H/Hr.
Hermione Weasley , I really like you. You're name is inherently paradoxical to your views,but you still stick to both.Bravo !
"Professor Jeeves - R/Hr 'ship is.. 21.70666666666666666666666666667%" What on earth did you do to get this 'recurring decimal' in here ? I'll pay you 2 knuts for the algorithm.Do try figuring out the probability of H/P 'ship for Marcus's sake.....
Lastly,did anyone notice how different it is to listen to the audio book & read it ? It's a must-try experience,but pave apart 31 hours for it....
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Star Crossed - Jul 30, 2004 7:24 am (#1689 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, I don't think she was really talking about relationships in that quote. Look at all the pauses. Plus, she says theories. And I doubt R/Hr getting married and having eight kids is the heart of Harry Potter. I think she's talking more about how the story ends.
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The One - Jul 30, 2004 10:39 am (#1690 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But,the most obvious one now is the R/Hr 'ship. For once let me listen a 'yes' in unison.
Must disapoint you there. For me it is fairly obvious that Hermione is prepared to give her heart to Harry, not to Ron.
Sorry.
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Chris. - Jul 30, 2004 11:51 am (#1691 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Must disappoint you there. For me it is fairly obvious that Hermione is prepared to give her heart to Harry, not to Ron.- The One. (Bold mine)
You said it all. That's your opinion.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 30, 2004 12:35 pm (#1692 of 2916)
You said it all. Different things are obvious to different people.
And knowing JKR, the obvious answer is probably the wrong one.
Wait a minute... I don't know her... never mind.
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total hatred - Jul 30, 2004 3:40 pm (#1693 of 2916)
What light. Being the more popular doesn't means that it is right. I seriously doubt that. One definite example is the medieval belief that the world is square. Only few believe that it is round and look who is right now.
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Star Crossed - Jul 30, 2004 3:45 pm (#1694 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, most people did believe the world was round, only a few thought it was flat.
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total hatred - Jul 30, 2004 3:57 pm (#1695 of 2916)
I was refering to medieval people not the people today. I believe that it is written in the history books that most learned people in that time believe that the world is flat. Only a few enlightened ones believed that.
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Star Crossed - Jul 30, 2004 4:03 pm (#1696 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's what I thought, but I think it was my...eighth grade social studies teacher who told me most people thought it was round. *shrug* Guess we'll never know unless we get a time turner.
Anyways, to get back on track, I still don't see why the ship can't be obvious. I have not had anyone tell me why JKR is going to give us red herrings.
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The One - Jul 30, 2004 4:11 pm (#1697 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
You said it all. That's your opinion.
Of course it is. That was the entire point of my post. Not that Crookshanks is wrong, but that is does not really make any sense to expect unison ‘yes’ to such a claim.
A statement like the “the clues are laid out” contains very little information, because I interpret it to refer to my favourite clues, you interpret it to refer to your favourite clues, and we are given no information whatsoever to help us decide which of us, if any, are right.
The same goes for the “I can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked this one out yet” quote on the JKR website. I do believe that it means that anyone should have understood by now that Hermione loves Harry, but as other of course will interpret it as supporting Hermione/Ron (or neither) depending on what they think is obvious, it makes no sense whatsoever to try to use that quote to prove my point. As intended, the quote is completely void of any information.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 30, 2004 4:12 pm (#1698 of 2916)
Let it snow!
People have known the world was round since the ancient Greeks. When Columbus went to either the French or Italians, they calculated the circumference of the world, made other calculations, and they decided he couldn't make the trip and thus decided not to back him. I believe the idea that medieval people thought the world was flat is a misconception established around the Victorian era when they tried to look back and make themselves sound much more advanced. Another misconception is that they threw refuse out their windows into the streets (that would've caused massive plagues, etc, so this didn't happen; I mean, who would want to wade through their own, er, gunk to get in and out of their house) and that streets were very narrow (couldn't have been because many people used horse and cart to get around and thus streets were wide to allow for traffic).... This list just goes on. You should hear my History of Medieval England professor go on and on about it....
The One, I'm interested in hearing what you think of JK's various quotes regarding 'ships....
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The One - Jul 30, 2004 5:04 pm (#1699 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The One, I'm interested in hearing what you think of JK's various quotes regarding 'ships....
S. E. Jones, one of my views on the quotes my be read in my post The One 7/18/04 3:41am .
Another interesting fact is that most of the quotes are fairly ambiguous. Example:
Press Club, October 1999: JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]
Does she like this question because it is the present tense, enabling her to deny Harry/Hermione without lying? May be, may be not.
Another example:
Dateline NBC (Couric) - transcript, June 2003: Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?” Rowling: (slight frown) “Hermione and Harry! Do you think so?” Couric: “No I’m kidding. Rowling: “Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more potential (or did she say “tension”) there”.
Note that she does not say that Harry and Hermione are not going to snog, neither does she promise any Ron/Hermione snogging sessions, but she does make it look like she have answered the question.
Third example:
Will Harry and Hermione be together? *sight* JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!
If the two preceding questions are answered as clearly as R/Hr shippers seem to believe, what is the point of suddenly refusing to answer?
My last point is that mostly I prefer to ignore JKR quotes when trying to predict the outcomes of the book. The entire point of reading the posts on HP sites is to learn details from the books that I have not spotted myself, and to learn interpretations of the text that I have not figured out myself. Thus the argument: “This is going to happen because JKR says so!” does not give me much, even if it should turn out to be an effective way to predict what is going to happen.
To sum up the answer to your question: I consider the JKR quotes to be unreliable, ambiguous and not that interesting anyway.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 30, 2004 7:58 pm (#1700 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Actually, most people did believe the world was round, only a few thought it was flat. -- Star Crossed
Ah; but there were more people who believed that Sun revolves around the Sun than those who believed Earth revolves around the Sun.
Crookshanks; how did Professor Jeeves calculate those recurring decimals? You really don't know him do you? He told me once. He used the Love calculator, Number of R/Hr instances and a 32 digits calculator to do so. That's why he got so many 6s. A sinple 67 would've sufficed.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Prefect Marcus, "What my favorite 'ship is, and what I think will actually happen are two different things."
Sort of like saying "Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!"
DripPan
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 5:15 pm (#1652 of 2916)
Let it snow!
To get away from the age old argument for a minute, my brother and I have been discussing the possibility of a Neville/Luna 'ship which someone brought up earlier in this thread. I didn't give much thought to this possible 'ship because I couldn't see what the appeal would be, but, as I've thought on it more, I can start to see it. If you look at a movie where a girl grows up with a very controlling family with high expectations, she very often ends up dating the guy on the motorcycle with the police record. Basically, she's pushing away from her controlling upbringing, leaning toward someone who will accept her as she is, leaning toward a less confining life, etc. We've all seen movies like that, I'm sure. Well, what do you get if it's a guy in the girl's place? He will either marry a girl that his family picked out and be miserable, or he will marry a girl that his family would disapprove of, who tends to be whimsical (as opposed to his family's set routines), is very accepting and open to new ideas (as opposed to his family's high expectations and confining beliefs), etc. In the guys own way, he is pushing away from his controlling upbringing. A good example of this type of romantic plot would be the US TV show 'Dharma and Gregg' (sp?). Neville certainly fits the guy's description. He grew up with high standards he couldn't achieve, but was still expected to, a very controlling grandmother, etc. Luna would be a good example of the whimsical, excepting girl that he might end up with. She (and her father as well) would certainly accept him as he is, no questions asked, would be very freeing for him as she doesn't seem to hold too strongly to confining beliefs, etc. (Hm, lots of etc in this post....). It certainly has me thinking more than it did before. Kudos to whoever brought this up before....
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Professor V - Jul 28, 2004 5:27 pm (#1653 of 2916)
I like it. But do you think that Luna can get over her crush on Ron?
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 5:35 pm (#1654 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Hm... I think so. I don't think it will be anything immediate, more something that comes along late in Book 6, in Book 7, or in the Epilogue.
You know, I didn't even get Luna's crush out of the text. My brother had to point out the references to me (that is, the brother that didn't even read the book!). I just figured it was all part of her whimsical personality. I've known quite a few people like that and it's sometimes hard to destinguish when they mean something and when they're just saying something that's just popped into their head....
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haymoni - Jul 28, 2004 6:04 pm (#1655 of 2916)
Neville didn't want anything to do with Luna on the train. Perhaps with his own shortcomings he did not want to further ruin his rep' by sitting with ole Loony.
I think he may feel differently now that they have been through the MOM battle together. While it may not be a 'ship, he at least won't try to run away from her!
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TomProffitt - Jul 28, 2004 6:06 pm (#1656 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I don't know how it is with teenage girls, but teenage guys can have a crush on eight different girls at once, fall madly in love with a different girl that fate drops in his lap, stay madly in love with her and start new crushes on another eight different girls. ( And the cute new teacher.)
I doubt crushes mean a whole lot, look at Cho and Harry.
I presume a "'ship" is meant to be a little more. (at least for the purpose of this thread.)
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 28, 2004 6:40 pm (#1657 of 2916)
I think Neville was probably just a little scared of Luna on the train - people who are slightly unusual or mentally unstable intimidate some people.
I do think that a Neville/Luna 'ship might happen - I'd like to see a Harry/Luna 'ship, but don't think it's likely.
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Kasse - Jul 28, 2004 7:14 pm (#1658 of 2916)
I think a Neville/Luna ship would be great. However I honestly do not see where Luna has a crush on Ron. At one point I actually thought she liked Harry (the part with the mistletoe) - any one with me on this?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 28, 2004 7:19 pm (#1659 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Kasse I agree with you. Perhaps she was looking at him funny because I doubt he would have noticed standing underneath the mistletoe if he were with Hermione.
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Professor Jeeves - Jul 28, 2004 8:14 pm (#1660 of 2916)
<-- Charisteas with the Euro 2004 trophy
Hi, Professor here, I'm really intrested in this 'shipping debate though I'm not committed towards any 'ship at the moment.
Now, lets see, the chances of a R/Hr 'ship is... 21.7066666666666666666666666666667%
The chances of a H/Hr 'ship are...10.686%
However, if there is a triangle between the trio; which I don't believe is possible, the chances of R/Hr 'ship decreases by 5.0035% and the chances of H/Hr 'ship increases by 4.03%
The chances of each of the trio forming a 'ship with somebody else are 43.8235% for Ron, 26.6666666666666666667% for Hermione and 10.33333% for Harry.
Best Regards, Jeeves
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Sir Tornado - Jul 28, 2004 8:32 pm (#1661 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Jeeves, nice to see you on the forum at last, though you've rather confused me there. Explain it to me later. Luna/Harry? No chance. They've just had one proper conversation with each other at the end of OotP. I believe that 9 times out of 10, Luna gets on Harry's nerves. Ginny/Harry, well, you have no canon evidence towards that 'ship. The only evidence you've got is the library scene which can be discarded easily by some tried and tested counter Arguments. I believe Green Eyes and myself have been through that sequence atleast twice a week. Hermione? Well, the only argument R/Hr 'shippers have got is "They are platonic friends." I have said again and again that "Are" refers to present tense and not future. They may become more than that in future.
Thanks!
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Star Crossed - Jul 28, 2004 8:35 pm (#1662 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Again, that is not the only argument R/Hr shippers have. We have many more in the past posts. By now, it's whether or not you will accept the evidence.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 28, 2004 8:37 pm (#1663 of 2916)
Just curious, about the Harry/Ginny 'ship, what is the "easily discarded" library scene?
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Leila 2X4B - Jul 28, 2004 8:38 pm (#1664 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Tornedo, it is funny because I actually do not see canon evidence for a Harry Hermione ship. Well, we will all have to agree to disagree. Strange how the least important aspect of the books creates the largest amount of emnity.
Leila
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 28, 2004 9:14 pm (#1665 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Luke E.A. Lockhart - Just curious, about the Harry/Ginny 'ship, what is the "easily discarded" library scene?
It depends upon your prejudice. If it supports your POV, then it's 'vitally important'. If it doesn't, then it is "easily discarded".
:-)
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Professor Jeeves - Jul 28, 2004 11:22 pm (#1666 of 2916)
<-- Charisteas with the Euro 2004 trophy
Again, that is not the only argument R/Hr shippers have. -- Star Crossed
What are they?
Just curious, about the Harry/Ginny 'ship, what is the "easily discarded" library scene? --Luke E.A. Lockhart
I think Tornedo is refering to the scene where Harry is given his easter egg by Ginny.
If it supports your POV, then it's 'vitally important'. If it doesn't, then it is "easily discarded". --Prefect Marcus.
Right you are. I agree with you completely. That's why I don't support any 'ship. Don't want to be termed as "Prejudiced"
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S.E. Jones - Jul 28, 2004 11:24 pm (#1667 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Professor Jeeves: What are they?
Jeeves, just read back up through this entire thread and you'll find them....
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Sir Tornado - Jul 29, 2004 12:04 am (#1668 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Right you are Sarah. But if you read through the entire thread, you'll also find out that there have been convincing counter-arguments to those arguments. If you ask me, there's not a single clear evidence given by JKR regarding any of the main 'ships
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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 12:32 am (#1669 of 2916)
Tornedo, maybe you can help me! I've tried getting this answered by H/Hr shippers.
In OotP, when Hermione went to Buckbeak's room, why didn't she spend time with Harry alone to show support and love?
I posted 3 posts: #1626, #1638 and #1648.
Hermione did know Ron and Ginny were waiting as shown in the last post and this was a set up. I know Hr/R/G are Harry's friends but if Hermione had any romantic feelings towards him, she missed a great opportunity to spend some quality alone time with him.
All three are there for Harry's support and as friends. Ron is Harry's best friend but doesn't say much, Ginny is over her crush (which is different from loving someone) on Harry and is facing him with the truth, so, I also take it that Hermione's is there also as a friend and doesn't say much.
Please, please help me to understand this!! Anybody can help not just Tornedo.
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Jul 29, 2004 1:16 am (#1670 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
DripPan, actually, I think JKR has made a big mistake in that scene. We are told that the Weasleys tell Hermione what happened in St. Mungos, and that Harry had been avoiding them. For Hermione to understand this, and take in the situation, it would take atleast 3-5 minutes. Then, the way by which the conversation goes about in Harry's room, it is obvious that they had rehearsed it before. The planning would take another 3-5 minutes. Yet, Hermione comes to Harry in Buckbeak's room almost as soon as she comes to GP12. (She still has snow in her hair!) Now, this is humanly impossible; even for Hermione. (I'm sure she doesn't have a time turner) I don't think Ron or Ginny could've owled Hermione; it's too risky.
As stated above; there are too many flaws in the above scene to interpret whether Hermione knew if Ron and Ginny were in Harry's room when she lured Harry there. May be, she wasn't expecting them to be there. Why did she not spend some quality time alone with him in Buckbeak's room? Well, Hermione's a clever girl. She knows better than to try to reason with Harry especially when he's not eaten all day.Add to the fact that they had Buckbeak tearing up rats every minute. Also, the room wasn't inhabited by any Human for many years. I bet it was a real mess; with grime, dust and Hippogryph droppings all over the floor. Surely, you should take these things in consideration.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 29, 2004 1:57 am (#1671 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: We are told that the Weasleys tell Hermione what happened in St. Mungos, and that Harry had been avoiding them. For Hermione to understand this, and take in the situation, it would take atleast 3-5 minutes. Then, the way by which the conversation goes about in Harry's room, it is obvious that they had rehearsed it before. The planning would take another 3-5 minutes. Yet, Hermione comes to Harry in Buckbeak's room almost as soon as she comes to GP12. (She still has snow in her hair!) Now, this is humanly impossible; even for Hermione.
I disagree that this is a flaw. She was told that Harry was avoiding everyone because of what happened at St Mungo's, but that doesn't mean she was told this when she got to 12 Grimmauld Place. She had to know to come somehow, versus spending the break with her parents. I think that most likely Ron and Ginny wrote to her and asked her to come. This would explain her knowing and the planning, if things were done via owl post.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 29, 2004 2:05 am (#1672 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ron and Ginny wouldn't owl Hermione. It's too risky. The letter could fall into wrong hands.
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haymoni - Jul 29, 2004 5:20 am (#1673 of 2916)
I'm sure Ron & Ginny could have coded the letter. Ron might not have thought to do it, but I'm sure Ginny did.
"Come to our new place ASAP. Our friend isn't talking."
Hermione's no dummy. She'd know they were talking about Harry.
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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 5:29 am (#1674 of 2916)
Thanks Tornedo!!! You're awesome!!!
Couple things though:
"She knows better than to try to reason with Harry especially when he's not eaten all day."
Well, Harry didn't go into the bedroom and start eating either, so he was still hungry but was being confronted by 3 people instead of 1.
I agree that maybe Buckbeak's room being a mess but I find animals being around very comforting when talking about a problem. But, like you stated, the conversation sounded rehearsed. She could easily told Ron and Ginny to leave her and Harry alone before arriving. She could have also spent more time getting his side of the story. Nobody knew what Harry was feeling (he didn't talk to any of them after St Mungo's).
IMO, I think this shows how Hermione feels about Harry. That she loves him as a dear friend. That she took him to the bedroom for a pre-planned intervention.
If there was a spark that Hermione had any other feelings, she missed her chance big time!!
BTW, I think an owl can be sent from 12GP without giving out the OotP's location. If they only talked about what was bothering Harry and not mention the OotP, anyone reading it would have no idea. Just like they did with Sirius in GoF, coded messages. Another thing is do they put return addresses on the envelopes? I get mail all the time without return addresses. And, one last thing, even if they wrote that the OotP HQ was located at 12GP, I don't think anyone would be able to read it, unless DD wrote it. He is the Secret Keeper.
"DripPan, actually, I think JKR has made a big mistake in that scene."
I knew you were EVIL! JKR make a mistake! NEVER! She just doesn't explain everything we want to know......
Thanks again for posting! You are great! Evil, yes, but still great!!
DripPan
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Kieran Burke - Jul 29, 2004 5:46 am (#1675 of 2916)
Tornedo, you can counter argue any arguement, that doesn't disregard it as evidence. It's like Marcus said, it just comes down to point of view. Alot of people are satisfied that there is plenty of evidence to support at R/Hr ship.
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Kasse - Jul 29, 2004 6:44 am (#1676 of 2916)
Correct me if I a m wrong but didn't JKR state that she had made it obvious who Hermione liked in the fourth book. That is where I base my R/H theory. I am sure I read somewhere that was what JKR had said on the topic of a love triangle.
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Crookshanks - Jul 29, 2004 6:46 am (#1677 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 29, 2004 6:50 am
Tornedo - Ron & Ginny wouldn't owl Hermione.
Wow ! 'owl' as a verb !!! Absolutely right there. Well, Harry was about to leave 12GP when he gets DD's order to stay where he is.This means that DD knew that Harry had eavesdropped on the conversation at the St.Mungo's ward.Who told Hermione about the vision and stuff ? DD & he obviously would've told her about this too IMO.There IS a flaw if snow still was in her hair.
I primarily don't understand why Ron & Ginny did nothing but leave Harry in great distress.At least Ron could've barged in & forced himself on Harry.After all he's Harry's best pal,isn't he ? And if Ginny did care about him, she would've told him that 'how-it-feels-being-possessed' thing much earlier.I dunno what this means ......
Drippan - ...if Hermione had any romantic feelings towards him, she missed a great opportunity to spend some quality alone time with him.
Hermione,to put it aptly,was diplomatic.She knew that Harry was distancing himself from the Weasleys & the best way to console him was to make Ron & Ginny admit in front of Harry that they had confidence in him.She did miss an opportunity there,but what was more pressing then was not to keep him alienated.Hermione's intervention obviously offered Harry some relief.We know Harry didn't feel ashamed in front of Hermione,while he should've.He was feeling clumsy sitting in the train amidst 'clean' people,though the crowd was blissfully ignorant of what he was going thru.This points towards the fact that if Harry wanted someone then,it was Hermione,and what's more,she was there.She wanted to get him out of trouble asap & what she did is consistent with what should've been done in principle.
Why then did she tell Harry that Ron & Ginny had told her everything ? She wanted Harry to feel that they were on his side too. And evidently he had a huge relief when Ginny told him that there was no way he could be possessed ?
But for people captaining the H/G 'ship ,I wanna ask the same question. Why didn't Ginny steal Harry's solitude to talk to him ? I'm sure that would have made him feel better than Hermione talking him out of it.
Opinions welcome.....(as always)
PS : I'm on shore now.... not sailing for the moment.Still deciding whether to embark the H/P 'ship with Marcus or to wait for some more time & so more arguments about that....
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Loopy Lupin - Jul 29, 2004 7:38 am (#1678 of 2916)
Nearly all his [Harry's] current relationships are platonic. None of them have much energy.-- Prefect Marcus
I was just curious what you meant by "energy." If its measured in terms of "ups and downs," then truly his most "energetic" relationship has been with Ron as they spent a good chunk of GoF mad at each other. Second would be Hermione as he was mad at her about the Firebolt for quite some time in POA. The Cho 'ship was, indeed, rather boring after all was said an done. I guess a "first crush" was a necessary evil before Harry moves on to *ahem* greener pastures.
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Crookshanks - Jul 29, 2004 7:54 am (#1679 of 2916)
Edited by Jul 29, 2004 8:00 am
I was just reading thru OotP and struck upon this theory after the Thestrals lecture....
Hermione would probably end up with Ron because may be she appreciates failure & not being in the thick of things, or simply,lack of fame more than death. What's Ron's grumble ? Hermione has the answer in GoF -- jealousy & poverty & playing 2nd fiddle to Harry. What's Harry's problem ? No parents & close encounters with death. Hermione has a certain amount of disregard about death ('We'll be dead,or worse,expelled' PS/SS) as is also evident in the Thestrals class (COMC - 'Wish I could see it !'). That would probably make her pity Ron more than Harry.May be the death of someone very close to Hermione will help her appreciate Harry's position,just like what Susan did. Sirius was certainly not close enough. Perhaps one of Hagrid,Ron or the Grangers.
Kasse,I'm with you.But conjecturing something is the last thing I'll do. Everytime I did it, JKR had me bowled for a duck. I've become sort of paranoid,trying to dissect straight-forward sentences in day-to-day conversations.And the rule of all these books seems to be --- 'What seems obvious is never obvious.' R/Hr may be obvious for now, but intricately woven with them are some H/Hr possibilities too.
Loopy, by energy Marcus might mean 'fuel for love' & not aggression.Someone's made a brilliant point by saying that Harry is very slow at realising, understanding, feeling & evolving thru relationships, given his pre-Hogwarts days.That's the reason may be Harry may end up being single,if alive or utmost find love (non-Choish) in someone in book 7.
Waiting to hear yells from H/Hr 'shippers.... Are there any left,by the way, other than my pal Tornedo ??
PS: I'm writing too much, amn't I ? Just can't help it....
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 29, 2004 8:28 am (#1680 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Crookshanks -- Loopy, by energy Marcus might mean 'fuel for love' & not aggression.
Right you are, Crookshanks. I have a personal dislike for the word "passion". It's been used so much (mainly by the entertainment media) that it has little meaning anymore. So I use energy instead.
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Hermione Weasley - Jul 29, 2004 8:53 am (#1681 of 2916)
crookshanks,
I personally would like to see a H/HR ship but like you: 'What seems obvious is never obvious.' R/Hr may be obvious for now, but intricately woven with them are some H/Hr possibilities too."
And I'm sure that this has been severely dissected but if JKR say that it is obvious who Hermione likes in the fourth book (GoF) then I'd have to say at an obvious glance: Viktor Krum, at a not so obvious glance: Harry. Why? Because even when Viktor is fawning over her, telling her he's never felt this way before, inviting her to his house etc. who is HR concerned with?? Harry. I can just see a mental picture in my mind: all three sitting side by side on the lake beach, Viktor tapping HR on the shoulder while HR gushes over Harry about rescueing Fleur's sister.
Needless to say, I'm a H/HR shipper but I just don't put anything past JRK.
Hermione
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Chris. - Jul 29, 2004 8:57 am (#1682 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
This is an argument that is going to continue until we have canon proof that it will happen. On both sides, the evidence depends on your PoV.
Neville and Luna? Hmm... it's okay, I suppose.
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drippan - Jul 29, 2004 10:10 am (#1683 of 2916)
crookshanks, "Why didn't Ginny steal Harry's solitude to talk to him ? I'm sure that would have made him feel better than Hermione talking him out of it."
Because Ginny had a boyfriend at the time!! She is well over her crush on Harry. She is a friend of Harry but not a close friend like Ron and Hermione. It's the same thing you asked "Why didn't Ron go bust down the door?" theory.
About Harry having Ginny talk him out of the room or in private, Harry wouldn't have allowed it. He is so ashamed what they all heard in the hospital. Also, you must admit, that Harry lacks a great deal with people who love him. Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, Ron, Hermione, Cho, DD, etc.
Oh, and one more thing, he liked Cho at the time!! He got his "kiss" right before Arthur's snake incident.
"Hermione,to put it aptly,was diplomatic.She knew that Harry was distancing himself from the Weasleys & the best way to console him was to make Ron & Ginny admit in front of Harry that they had confidence in him.She did miss an opportunity there,but what was more pressing then was not to keep him alienated."
So, she couldn't have told Harry herself that was said in the bedroom? That he was being "stupid"? That he couldn't have done it? That Ginny was also possessed by TR/LV? That he should go talk to Ginny?
Hermione only got him out of the attic. It was Ginny who called Harry out and got his head on straight. Ron didn't say anything until the very end then it was that he saw Harry in bed.
Diplomatic? Yep, she didn't tell him the whole truth about Ginny and Ron waiting for them. Wanting to help a friend out? Yes. Missing a major opportunity if there was a spark between her and Harry? Definitely. She was very impersonal throughout the whole thing. She was "impatient" with him.
BTW, I can see one flaw in my theory on Hermione's reaction. That is she knows Harry and Cho were a thing and didn't want to create any wake! Oh, well......but I still can't see where she couldn't have spent some alone time with him as a friend, especially if she likes him.
DripPan
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total hatred - Jul 29, 2004 4:09 pm (#1684 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Jul 29, 2004 5:03 pm
The possible explaination that Hermione is not showing some romantic inclination to Harry is the fact that she still consider him as his bestfriend. She helping him as a friend without realizing that she had fallen in love with him.
Where the heck did you get that stupid idea Total_hatred if you ask me. The answer is simple. From a post of a R/Hr shipper.
->Please watch language.<-
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Star Crossed - Jul 29, 2004 4:18 pm (#1685 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Total Hatred, you confused me ten times over.
As for R/Hr being obvious...so? First off, JKR said it was obvious. Second, this isn't who's the bad guy, it's just who fancies who. It will never be the biggest picture, it's just showing they have hormones. She does not need to feed us red herrings one after another, she has to show evidence so we can say, "Oh, right, I saw that coming."
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Sir Tornado - Jul 30, 2004 6:16 am (#1686 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Allright, total hatred, you're confusing me here; are you still a H/Hr 'shipper, or have crossed over to R/Hr 'ship?
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Kasse - Jul 30, 2004 6:45 am (#1687 of 2916)
see the light total hatred, cross over, R/Hr all the way!
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Crookshanks - Jul 30, 2004 6:52 am (#1688 of 2916)
"Star Crossed - She does not need to feed us red herrings one after another, she has to show evidence so we can say, "Oh, right, I saw that coming."
Dear Friend, read thru this ----
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
The bottomline is that there is some unlikely 'ship that'll sail which would form the fulcrum of the story-line.There's no special reference to any of the trio.Harry,without the 'energy' required at the present, could as well fit into any of them (except Cho or Marietta, perhaps).So,nothing seems 'all that unlikely' for Harry.
But,the most obvious one now is the R/Hr 'ship.For once let me listen a 'yes' in unison.We really have a huge number of clues as of now.But I have a feeling that there could be some contradictory clues well hidden in between 'locally significant' events,which we might have dismissed as silly conversation or 'extra-information'.They might he hidden in the vicinity of the persistent R-Hr bickerings,may be in the class activities(Potions,DADA etc..) or may be even around regurgitating toilets.But realize the clues are laid out.What needs to be done is to try to decipher all possible meanings & moods of all insignificant statements & get something tangible out of it.
May be I'm acting 'Moody-ish', trying to read between lines even when it says "LV had returned" or whatever,but that'll at least make me read GoF & OotP once more..... The clues might be contradicting any 'ship,not just R/Hr,may be even H/Hr.
Hermione Weasley , I really like you. You're name is inherently paradoxical to your views,but you still stick to both.Bravo !
"Professor Jeeves - R/Hr 'ship is.. 21.70666666666666666666666666667%" What on earth did you do to get this 'recurring decimal' in here ? I'll pay you 2 knuts for the algorithm.Do try figuring out the probability of H/P 'ship for Marcus's sake.....
Lastly,did anyone notice how different it is to listen to the audio book & read it ? It's a must-try experience,but pave apart 31 hours for it....
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Star Crossed - Jul 30, 2004 7:24 am (#1689 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, I don't think she was really talking about relationships in that quote. Look at all the pauses. Plus, she says theories. And I doubt R/Hr getting married and having eight kids is the heart of Harry Potter. I think she's talking more about how the story ends.
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The One - Jul 30, 2004 10:39 am (#1690 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But,the most obvious one now is the R/Hr 'ship. For once let me listen a 'yes' in unison.
Must disapoint you there. For me it is fairly obvious that Hermione is prepared to give her heart to Harry, not to Ron.
Sorry.
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Chris. - Jul 30, 2004 11:51 am (#1691 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Must disappoint you there. For me it is fairly obvious that Hermione is prepared to give her heart to Harry, not to Ron.- The One. (Bold mine)
You said it all. That's your opinion.
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Paulus Maximus - Jul 30, 2004 12:35 pm (#1692 of 2916)
You said it all. Different things are obvious to different people.
And knowing JKR, the obvious answer is probably the wrong one.
Wait a minute... I don't know her... never mind.
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total hatred - Jul 30, 2004 3:40 pm (#1693 of 2916)
What light. Being the more popular doesn't means that it is right. I seriously doubt that. One definite example is the medieval belief that the world is square. Only few believe that it is round and look who is right now.
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Star Crossed - Jul 30, 2004 3:45 pm (#1694 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Actually, most people did believe the world was round, only a few thought it was flat.
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total hatred - Jul 30, 2004 3:57 pm (#1695 of 2916)
I was refering to medieval people not the people today. I believe that it is written in the history books that most learned people in that time believe that the world is flat. Only a few enlightened ones believed that.
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Star Crossed - Jul 30, 2004 4:03 pm (#1696 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's what I thought, but I think it was my...eighth grade social studies teacher who told me most people thought it was round. *shrug* Guess we'll never know unless we get a time turner.
Anyways, to get back on track, I still don't see why the ship can't be obvious. I have not had anyone tell me why JKR is going to give us red herrings.
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The One - Jul 30, 2004 4:11 pm (#1697 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
You said it all. That's your opinion.
Of course it is. That was the entire point of my post. Not that Crookshanks is wrong, but that is does not really make any sense to expect unison ‘yes’ to such a claim.
A statement like the “the clues are laid out” contains very little information, because I interpret it to refer to my favourite clues, you interpret it to refer to your favourite clues, and we are given no information whatsoever to help us decide which of us, if any, are right.
The same goes for the “I can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked this one out yet” quote on the JKR website. I do believe that it means that anyone should have understood by now that Hermione loves Harry, but as other of course will interpret it as supporting Hermione/Ron (or neither) depending on what they think is obvious, it makes no sense whatsoever to try to use that quote to prove my point. As intended, the quote is completely void of any information.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 30, 2004 4:12 pm (#1698 of 2916)
Let it snow!
People have known the world was round since the ancient Greeks. When Columbus went to either the French or Italians, they calculated the circumference of the world, made other calculations, and they decided he couldn't make the trip and thus decided not to back him. I believe the idea that medieval people thought the world was flat is a misconception established around the Victorian era when they tried to look back and make themselves sound much more advanced. Another misconception is that they threw refuse out their windows into the streets (that would've caused massive plagues, etc, so this didn't happen; I mean, who would want to wade through their own, er, gunk to get in and out of their house) and that streets were very narrow (couldn't have been because many people used horse and cart to get around and thus streets were wide to allow for traffic).... This list just goes on. You should hear my History of Medieval England professor go on and on about it....
The One, I'm interested in hearing what you think of JK's various quotes regarding 'ships....
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The One - Jul 30, 2004 5:04 pm (#1699 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The One, I'm interested in hearing what you think of JK's various quotes regarding 'ships....
S. E. Jones, one of my views on the quotes my be read in my post The One 7/18/04 3:41am .
Another interesting fact is that most of the quotes are fairly ambiguous. Example:
Press Club, October 1999: JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]
Does she like this question because it is the present tense, enabling her to deny Harry/Hermione without lying? May be, may be not.
Another example:
Dateline NBC (Couric) - transcript, June 2003: Couric: “Any snogging with Hermione?” Rowling: (slight frown) “Hermione and Harry! Do you think so?” Couric: “No I’m kidding. Rowling: “Ron and Hermione, I would say, have more potential (or did she say “tension”) there”.
Note that she does not say that Harry and Hermione are not going to snog, neither does she promise any Ron/Hermione snogging sessions, but she does make it look like she have answered the question.
Third example:
Will Harry and Hermione be together? *sight* JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!
If the two preceding questions are answered as clearly as R/Hr shippers seem to believe, what is the point of suddenly refusing to answer?
My last point is that mostly I prefer to ignore JKR quotes when trying to predict the outcomes of the book. The entire point of reading the posts on HP sites is to learn details from the books that I have not spotted myself, and to learn interpretations of the text that I have not figured out myself. Thus the argument: “This is going to happen because JKR says so!” does not give me much, even if it should turn out to be an effective way to predict what is going to happen.
To sum up the answer to your question: I consider the JKR quotes to be unreliable, ambiguous and not that interesting anyway.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 30, 2004 7:58 pm (#1700 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Actually, most people did believe the world was round, only a few thought it was flat. -- Star Crossed
Ah; but there were more people who believed that Sun revolves around the Sun than those who believed Earth revolves around the Sun.
Crookshanks; how did Professor Jeeves calculate those recurring decimals? You really don't know him do you? He told me once. He used the Love calculator, Number of R/Hr instances and a 32 digits calculator to do so. That's why he got so many 6s. A sinple 67 would've sufficed.
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Professor Jeeves - Jul 30, 2004 8:18 pm (#1701 of 2916)
<-- Charisteas with the Euro 2004 trophy
And I doubt R/Hr getting married and having eight kids is the heart of Harry Potter. -- Star Crossed.
Yeah, right; unless Tornedo's prediction on Hermione's thread comes true.
PS: Happy Birthday Harry
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Sir Tornado - Jul 30, 2004 8:50 pm (#1702 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
All right, now; I'd like to know why you guys support the 'ships you support.
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Kasse - Jul 30, 2004 11:40 pm (#1703 of 2916)
Tornedo - I support a R/HR ship simply because when I read GOF that is where the evidence pointed. I took their signs of jealousy (over Fleur and Krum)as signs that they like each other. I honestly do not see signs that point any where else.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 3:19 am (#1704 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
So; that's one reason for R/Hr 'shippers; Jealousy. Any others?
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TomProffitt - Jul 31, 2004 5:28 am (#1705 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Tornedo,
The reason I don't post that much on this thread is that I haven't really looked for evidence. I've gotten a feel for the characters as I've read the books. I probably am applying some of the lessons I've learned in life, the way I've seen people behave, perhaps. There's something about the way Jo writes that let's me add subtle mental images of what's going. Intuitively I've seen a Ron/Hermione 'ship for quite some time, but I couldn't point to a definite reason why.
It must go to basic assumptions I've made about the characters from the beginning. I'm certain all of us do it to some extent or another.
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Kasse - Jul 31, 2004 6:46 am (#1706 of 2916)
Tornedo - there are other reasons, that I am sure have already been mentioned but I will tell you two others that sealed it for me personally
When Harry compares Ron and Hermione to Mr and Mrs Whesly - I felt that this was JK trying to tell us something
And this simple quote "...And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am too," Hermione added as an afterthought. "But I don't think you're ugly," said Harry, bemused. Hermione laughed. "Harry, you're worse than Ron.... Well, no, you're not," she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall splattered with mud and looking grumpy......"
IMHO the sigh that Hermione gave spoke volumes
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 31, 2004 8:22 am (#1707 of 2916)
I support Ron/Hermione because to me it's obvious, and JKR has directly said that there will be no Harry/Hermione. Yes, that's right. Yes, technically you could argue about how her answers were worded, but JKR doesn't play that kind of mind game in her answers. Sometimes, her characters do, but she herself does not do anything of the sort.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 9:18 am (#1708 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well; Kasse, I wasn't asking for evidence supporting your 'ship; I was asking why you support it. For instance, here are the reasons why I support H/Hr.
1) Ron's just an ordinary kid, nothing extra-ordinary about him. On the other hand, both Harry and Hermione are extra-ordinary. It's like my Avatar says; Hermione's too good for Ron.
2) Frankly speaking, I hate Ron. I really liked him in first 3 books. But after the fight with Harry in 4th book, I started to hate him. In my opinion, in Book 5, he's too immature for a 15 year old.
3) This is one of the main reasons. When I read book 1, I was only 9. So, when I read the Harry and Hermione's parting scene after the potions puzzle, I was (at that time) sure that there was something between the two of them. I mean, I was only 9. I can now see that it was only a case of two friends saying farewell to each other. But at that time, I was sure that they would get together and became a H/Hr 'shipper. Now, as Mr Tony Blair said in 'House of Commons' recently, "It is noble to support the war and it is noble to oppose the war. Bit it is not noble to support and oppose the war in the same article." If I become a R/Hr 'shipper now, it'll be betrayal. I'm not about to do that, unless there is a concrete evidence.
4) I think H/Hr are the underdogs here and I ALWAYS support the underdogs. (Unless it is a soccer match in which Liverpool are playing )
So, I guess I'm a H/Hr 'shipper based on my principles more than on anything.
So, now tell me, why do you supprt the 'Ship you support?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 31, 2004 11:48 am (#1709 of 2916)
I support R/Hr because of the evidence. As for which 'ship I would like to happen, I would say Harry/Luna, because Luna is so picked on that she deserves some popularity.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 31, 2004 11:52 am (#1710 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Tornedo - I think H/Hr are the underdogs here and I ALWAYS support the underdogs.
If you REALLY want to support the underdogs, try the Harry/Pansy 'ship. :-)
So, now tell me, why do you supprt the 'Ship you support?
If you really want to know, come read the "Harry's 'ship uniting the houses' thread.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 12:01 pm (#1711 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
If you REALLY want to support the underdogs, try the Harry/Pansy 'ship. -- Prefect Marcus
I don't think H/P are exactly the underdogs... atleast not on this forum. You have managed to recruit a lot of H/P 'shippers. I bet there are more H/P 'shippers than H/Hr 'shippers on this forum.
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TomProffitt - Jul 31, 2004 12:04 pm (#1712 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I'm into the Harry/Myrtle 'ship, because Ron the Seer predicted it, and because we know The Dark Lord can't die unless Harry dies, too. So Harry comes back at the end of 7 and has a 'ship with Myrtle.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 12:10 pm (#1713 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
He'll 'ship with the Bloody Baron before going to Myrtle.
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Kasse - Jul 31, 2004 5:39 pm (#1714 of 2916)
Tornedo - I would have to agree with Lockhart I support R/Hr because of the evidence, that has been given in the books so far....
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Hermione Weasley - Jul 31, 2004 6:11 pm (#1715 of 2916)
Crookshanks,
"Hermione Weasley , I really like you. You're name is inherently paradoxical to your views,but you still stick to both.Bravo !"
Thanks!! Actually my name is only a paradox in this thread because I do want to see a H/HR ship but I don't put anything past JKR as I've said before. I named myself Hermione Weasley because I, IMHO, have the book smarts of Hermione but the red hair of the Weasleys'.
P.S. Sorry took so long to post... I had to rework my wardrobe with a little shopping today...I haven't done that in an extremely long time. (I hate shopping...yeuck!)
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Czarina II - Jul 31, 2004 11:00 pm (#1716 of 2916)
Well, I support Ron/Hermione because:
a) Evidence in books. Enough said, won't go into detail. Waste of time.
b) JKR's comments. Again, enough said. But "are" does not strictly refer to the present. I would say "the Earth is round", but I fully expect that the Earth has BEEN round and WILL BE round.
c) Just the way the characters are written and how I sense their interactions. Just my opinion, no concrete facts.
d) Finally, because to me it would be a happy ending. Ron and Hermione together, bickering off into the sunset on the back of a Firebolt with a 'Just Married' sign... (Again, just my opinion.)
That's it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 31, 2004 11:43 pm (#1717 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: I'd like to know why you guys support the 'ships you support.
Personally, there are two reasons I subscribe to the R/Hr 'ship:
1) The evidence. I like facts and I think this is the 'ship most backed in canon. (I also think it has a good backing with psychology, as you've probably been able to tell from my posts.)
2) It's an old story. One of the oldest and most entertaining versions of a romance is one where the two romantic interests start out at odds. Elizabeth Bennet and Mr Darcy ('Pride and Prejudice'), Emma and Mr Knightly ('Emma'), Benedick and Beatrice ('Much Ado About Nothing'), Anne Shirley and Gilbert Blythe ('Anne of Green Gables'), Scarlet O'Hara and Rett Butler ('Gone With the Wind'), and a ton of old movies ('The Philadelphia Story', 'Bringing Up Baby', 'Bachelor and the Bobbysoxer', 'Double Wedding', 'Shop Around the Corner', 'Father Goose'...). All my favorite love stories.... Me and my sister have been watching old movies (which epitamize that grating tention) since we came out of the womb, literally (my mom is addicted to them and she passed that addiction on to us). We picked up on the R/Hr 'ship when we watched the first movie (that was how I was introduced to HP) during the scene where Hermione enters the train car and immediately starts bumping heads with Ron. It was confirmed for me when I then went and started reading the books (see reason #1).
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Sir Tornado - Aug 1, 2004 12:56 am (#1718 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
JKR's comments. Again, enough said. But "are" does not strictly refer to the present. I would say "the Earth is round", but I fully expect that the Earth has BEEN round and WILL BE round. -- Czarina II
Well; as far as "are" is concerned; you can say A and B are married. however, you have no guarentee that they would be married 2 years hence. there could be a divorce. IMHO, the fact that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends is NOT a universal truth. I mean, universal truths are something that NEVER change. D'you think you can compare the probablity for 2 platonic friends to change their relationship with Earth changing it's shape? Or Sun rising in the west? BTW, you can't say Harry and Hermione have always been platonic friends. They did not even know each other before they met on the train; and they became friends only on 31st Oct. Meaning, they spent 2 months disliking each other. So, the word "Are" in this case is not true for the past. How can you be so sure it is true for the future?
I just love the semantic arguments. You can prove absolutely anything if you have got the nerve to do so.
BTW, after hearing the reasons of the members for supporting their 'ships, I can now see why no one has been able to convince anyone regarding the 'ships. No one will be able to do so except JKR herself. But it's real fun arguing on this thread.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 1:32 am (#1719 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Czarina II
But "are" does not strictly refer to the present. I would say "the Earth is round", but I fully expect that the Earth has BEEN round and WILL BE round.
Some things are less likely to change than others.
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total hatred - Aug 1, 2004 1:43 am (#1720 of 2916)
I always support the underdogs. In fact at this moment, I am a H/(Hermione, Luna & Pansy) shipper. I can see the clue presented by the other ships and on my opinion, they are all rebutable. What R/Hr shipper consider as their greatest strength can be the source of their downfall. Don't whine that I can't see the light. In fact, in order to see the light you must first see the darkness. Maybe you are staring to what you call as light too much that you are now blind. Blind to distinguish what is logical or not.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 1, 2004 1:52 am (#1721 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Let's not name call people. We all have different opinions and we are entitled to them. Let's play nice....
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 2:21 am (#1722 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I feel some need to clarify my stand on the quotes question.
I am, like you fully aware what the quotes appear to be saying. But, that interpretation does not tally with how I read the books. But if my reading of the books are correct, and the romance between Harry and Hermione is going to be an important part of the last two books, I do not believe that you will be able to catch JKR in having told an outright lie anywhere. Dodging questions, yes, being misleading and hinting in the wrong direction, yes, but lying? No, I do not think that from any of the quotes I have seen we will be able to accuse her of that. A rather strange coincident, isn’t it? And as JKR is a mystery author who is paranoid about revealing her plot, a have no problem imaging her being deliberately misleading.
R/Hr believes that Hermione fancies Ron, Ron fancies Hermione and when they are ready to realise their love things will happen. But, there are signs in the books that may be interpreted as pointing in other directions. Some examples:
In GoF Hermione apparently has a relationship with an international Quiddich star, but it seems not to go to well because she is obsessed with Harry.
When Hermione believes Harry to be a prefect she is overjoyed and happy, but deflates quite a bit when it turns out to be Ron.
Hermione is too tired to celebrate that Ron is made keeper, but nevertheless musters the strength to try to recruit Harry for knitting with great enthusiasm.
My question is: Assuming that the Ron/Hermione ship is the one to sail, what is the point of these scenes? I see only one possible answer: They are there in order to trick fools like me into believing that Hermione’s heart lays with Harry, the scenes are there to make her love interests ambiguous.
Why would she do that, if she finds the idea of a Harry/Hermione relationship laughable, as the quotes indicates she does? And way would she tell us what is happening in the love department in interviews, when she still is working to keep the books ambiguous?
It may very well turn out that I make a fool out of myself, that Ron/Hermione is the big ship and that us that believed otherwise despite JKR sayings have missed the target completely. Time will show. But as things stand today, when my reading of the books does not tally at all with JKR interviews, I am quite ready to consider the possibility that the quotes should be discarded.
I understand that many of you do not agree with me, but I must admit that I do have some trouble understanding why some of you seem to find this idea outrageous.
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total hatred - Aug 1, 2004 3:02 am (#1723 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Aug 1, 2004 1:04 pm
That is a few things that the R/Hr shippers missed. They are just looking at things that looks so obvious but in their zeal to prove their ship, they overlooks some trivial clues that may or may not be a hazard to the ship
->Tone it down.<-
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 3:10 am (#1724 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
To answer Tornedos question.
Why do I believe in a Harry/Hermione realationship?
The clues and the personalities. I see real problems in the relationship between Ron and Hermione that do not prevent them from being friends, but probably will create problems in a romantic relationship. I see in the Harry/Hermione relationship a friendship that very well may develop into a love relationship, and in the later books I see clues that it will indeed do so.
A certain dislike for the Ron/Hermione relationship. I believe Hermione to be the stronger part in that relationship, and see her bullying her future husband Ron in much the same way as Molly sometimes bully Arthur. As I see it the mutual respect and balance is much stronger in a Harry/Hermione relationship than in the Ron/Hermione relationship.
I must admit that I love Hermione, but that after GoF I developed a slight dislike of Ron. (Tornedo, I also love your avatar!)
Symbolism. Over on Portkey site you can read a lot about different kinds of foreshadowing and symbolism that points towards a Harry/Hermione relationship. These points may be discarded as overanalysing and countered by similar points pointing in other directions of course, but for me they does form a consistent pattern that is hard do ignore.
Hero/Heroin pairing. As the books proceeds Hermione is getting increasingly more important to the story, while Ron have decreased in importance. We have got to a point where Hermione is the most important person in Harry’s life, and Harry is the most important person in Hermione’s life. If this continues I see no room in the story for any other relationship involving any of these two people. As I see it they are bound to go towards the final showdown with LV together, and as far as their love lives is concerned, either they will fall for each other, or they will both leave the series as single.
Love as a theme. Love has been important in all the books, love between friends, love between children and their parents etc. It is only logical that as the children grow older, also the love between the hero and his woman will be important. Not that romantic love is the big love that nullifies all other kinds of love, but it is the kind of love that so far have been mostly treated as comic relief, and it needs to enter the story in a more serious way to make the picture complete.
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total hatred - Aug 1, 2004 3:19 am (#1725 of 2916)
Personality wise Harry and Hermione complement each other Harry chaotic, has certain disregard for rules and impulsive Hermione is orderly, follows the rules and cool headed Only Harry can shut up Hermione without using to much force the reverse is true. A stare is more or less enough to keep the other silent. Both of them can sense each other's general feelings
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Sir Tornado - Aug 1, 2004 3:44 am (#1726 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
That is a few things that the R/Hr shippers missed. They are just looking at things that looks so obvious but in their zeal to prove their ship, they overlooks some trivial clues that may or may not be a hazard to the ship, -- total hatred
Total Hatred, I'm not a Mod. But your post sounds like you are accusing R/Hr 'shippers of something. I think you need to bring your tone down a bit. Just an opinion...
The One; tell me something, are you a teenager? I think most adults have let Ron off very lightly after his fight with Harry. I guess you are the only person apart from myself who has *slight* dislike of Ron.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 3:58 am (#1727 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The One; tell me something, are you a teenager?
No, I am more than twice your age.
Ron is a typical teenager with typical teenager problems, and in many ways a lovable boy, but he is old enough to take responsibility for his actions. His actions in GoF are in many ways understandable, but that does not make them right, and I have almost, but not quite forgiven him.
Perhaps the difference between us is that when I say "slight" I mean "slight", but your *slight* seems to be quite an understatement?
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Sir Tornado - Aug 1, 2004 4:11 am (#1728 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
My *slight* means I won't forgive Ron until he sacrifices himself to save Harry's life. I can see what your "slight" means now.
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drippan - Aug 1, 2004 5:06 am (#1729 of 2916)
"I think most adults have let Ron off very lightly after his fight with Harry."
I don't know if you'll take this the wrong way, but is it you who is suppose to forgive Ron? or Harry's right to forgive Ron?
Harry was the wronged party and, right after the dragon triwizard competition, Ron apologized and Harry forgave him. Harry understands where Ron was coming from and Ron sees Harry would not do that to himself. Also, we still saw that Ron still cared about Harry even when they weren't talking to each other.
BTW, it was Ron who approached Harry, not vice-a-versa! Harry could have done the same.
In OotP, Harry is mad at both Hermione and Ron for not writing him. Even after they explained why (and getting bit by Hedwig), he is still angry with them. Harry doesn't even apologize, but Ron/Hermione feel for him. IMO, Harry was wrong and it made me angry at him.
When he went to the DoM, Harry was wrong again. Did he or will he apolgize for this? He got everyone hurt! Why? Because he saw only one path....get to the DoM. Yes, they all went on their own accord but they were following Harry. They were not going to let Harry go alone! Why? Friendship!
What's this doing in the relationship thread? Well, friendship also ends in 'ship and is a major aspect of the book.
DripPan
P.S. Old saying "Build a bridge and get over it!" Ron and Harry have!
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 5:34 am (#1730 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Angry drippan? :-)
What was my point is that we do develop feelings for the characters, and those feelings will probably influence us when reading and interpreting the books. This is valid for me, and I expect it to be true for most readers.
As for me, that have Hermione and Harry as my favorite characters, and Ron less so, will tend to have easier for seeing Harry/Hermione together then other people that loves Ron more. It all has to do with perception.
While my personal likes and dislikes influence my shipping preferences, I do of course realize that my likes and dislikes in no way provides a reliable tool for predicting the outcome of the books. Nevertheless, it need to be mentioned to fully explain why I ship what I ship.
Whether it is "right" to like or dislike Ron or any other character, or how strong those feelings ought to be, is another question.
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Kasse - Aug 1, 2004 7:15 am (#1731 of 2916)
Total Hatered - you stated "Only Harry can shut up Hermione without using to much force the reverse is true. "
I have to disagree while Harry is able to shut Hermione up more often than most, he is not the only one who can do this. From Order of the Phoenix...."Ooooh, Dijon?" said Hermione excitedly. "I've been there on holiday, did you see --?" She fell silent at the look on Ron's face.
Also I believe there was a time when Ginny shut harry up by telling hime that he was being silly since to only person he knows to have been possesed by voldemort was her.
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drippan - Aug 1, 2004 8:04 am (#1732 of 2916)
The One, "Angry drippan?"
Nah!! It just appears that Harry forgave Ron right after Ron approached him. Water under the bridge. Harry or Ron have never brought up the incident afterwards. I think it also brought them closer together by realizing how close they really are.
I just wanted to show also that Harry done worse things than Ron did.
I mean, do you think Harry will apologize to Ron/Hermione/Ginny/Neville/Luna or Ginny for getting them hurt so he can "Go save Sirius"? I doubt it but I do know one thing, everyone of them would probably except his apology.
I'm trying to think if Harry has ever apologize for anything? The only one I can think of is when Ginny reminded him that she was also possessed by LV. He told her that he totally forgot about that.
Harry is still growing on how to interact with other people. He still doesn't understand that making mistakes does not mean that people stop loving you. Ron know this from living in a large family and that is why he kept checking on Harry and, why eventually, Ron approached Harry.
One last thing that you mentioned is your own personal view of relationships might cloud one's eye. This is very true. If you want the book to come out one way, you'll only see it in one way.
When I first came to the lexicon, I always thought R/Hr but since then, I have taken a more nuetral outlook because both sides have stated excellent points. I can see H/Hr, R/Hr, H/G, H/Susan, H/L and R/L. The only one I can't see is H/P (Sorry Marcus).
Still smiling,
DripPan
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Catherine - Aug 1, 2004 9:37 am (#1733 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Wow, I didn't read this thread for a few days and it exploded with posts. I'm still reeling from it all.
I'm mostly with the Hermione/Ron 'shippers, and for the reasons expressed recently by S. E. Jones in her explanation why she supports this ship.
As for Harry and Hermione, I think that there is a relationship to come for them, but not a romantic one. I think that Harry has taken Hermione for granted in some ways, and I think that his horror when she was hit by the curse in OoP shows how he cares about her more than he knows. I remember in OoP when the voice of caution in Harry's head is like Hermione's. She is a part of him, and I suspect he doesn't know how much. She has never betrayed Harry, and she has never let him down, even if he has been extremely angry with her.
I see Hermione very much as a loyal sister.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 1, 2004 9:54 am (#1734 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 1, 2004 10:17 am
Well, I am angry. Angry with Rowling. I would much prefer a H/H 'ship, but it is obvious that she is setting up a R/H 'ship.
How dare she!?!
EDIT: She is going to have to do something big for me to forgive her - say a H/P 'ship? :-)
(Ha Ha! Had you going there for a minute, didn't I?)
But seriously, I would much prefer H/H. Harry is the hero, and he needs a strong female beside him (if 17 years isn't too early for that). Hermione is the strongest female so far in the series. So he should get her.
However, as I have stated before, Harry is platonic with everyone. There is no more energy between him and Hermione, than there is between him and Ginny, Luna, Parvati, and practically any other girl.
But there is definite energy between Ron and Hermione. Now, I am NOT saying that either one of them fancies the other at this time. But unless something changes, the path they are on will lead to a 'ship.
So that is why I am a R/H 'shipper. Not that I want to be, but because that is the path that Rowling is marking out.
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Star Crossed - Aug 1, 2004 10:16 am (#1735 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
My *slight* means I won't forgive Ron until he sacrifices himself to save Harry's life. I can see what your "slight" means now.
I've gotten into a fight with every single one of my friends where we did not talk to each other. Does this mean I have to throw myself in front of a falling book in a library so they forgive me? Of course not. Fights happen. Fights make friendships stronger. I've had one friend whom I never had a fight with, and that ended in the middle school and three years later, we're still not friends. Friends need to fight. If they don't, they keep their anger bottled up.
I once read a fanfiction (That I know many have read here), that really made me understand something about Harry. He needs to see how loyal his friends are. He tries to push them away and waits for them to come back. If they don't, he erases them forever, if they do, he knows he can trust them.
As for R/Hr, I noticed a similiarity between them and Cory and Topanga from Boy Meets World. They're different from everyone else. I also think that Harry and Hermione might date once to finally get Ron to admit his feelings. Plus, you have Ron and Cory who have plain names, and then you have Topanga and Hermione who have odd names.
I don't see why JKR would like in her interviews about H/Hr. I can fully understand when people say "are", I can understand that. Agree, no, but I see where you're coming from. But when you can't trust what she says in her interviews, I don't see why. JKR has never given us reason to not trust what she says, I don't see why we should start. Well, unless you're talking about her maths...
R/Hr is obvious. But why does that mean it can't happen? Like I said before, getting together as a couple is not the basis of the books. It's not like we're going on a wild goose chase, trying to find the villan. Also, it sets up what every book is showing, Harry is going to end up alone. Not relationship wise, but he's the one. The one. Not a part of two, nor three, the one. He has to defeat Voldemort. That does not mean R/Hr won't be on the sidelines helping, they will help him just as they did for the second and third task. Help him find an answer, and then practice with him until he gets it right.
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tracie1976 - Aug 1, 2004 10:30 am (#1736 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I have a question.
Now the interviews we all quote are at one point or another written beofre a certain book is released. Say if she gave the interview saying that Harry and Hermione were platonic friends before book five for example. Couldn't that possibly change in the next books? I say we don't take her interviews seriously into the future books because friendships/relationships can change. Harry and Hermione could be platonic friends in book five but in book seven they could be in a serious relationship in book seven.
Now as why I ship Harry and Hermione: I like the hidden clues: for example the hippogriff. Also I like how they interact with each other. They trust each other and are there for each other when they need it most times. I hate when Ron and Hermione argue. It reminds me of my children fighting over toys. Plus reading the essays on portkey shows how much symbolism is used for possible foreshadowing of Harry and Hermione's relationship.
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KWeldon - Aug 1, 2004 12:17 pm (#1737 of 2916)
Marcus,
I've heard you mention before that Harry needs a strong female, but I am going to have to disagree, in at least some respects, although perhaps it's how you define the term "strong".
To someone who has been emotionally abused all of his childhood and who carries the burdens that he does, I'm not so sure that a strong personality is what he needs. The sense I get about him is that he needs someone who will understand the unique perspective he has of things and provide emotional support for him, albeit in a form that HE dictates. That is, she better not try and smother him, or he'll run fast. This person must be very patient. This person has to build their relationship very delicately, given that he has never known intense love of any kind. A strong person would not be likely to do this.
IMHO, ideally the person would be independent enough to stand up to him when the purpose is suited, yet respect that he is going to do what he is going to do. There are multiple times that he in fact avoids Hermione so that he doesn't have to listen to her nagging.
Just my two cents.
KWeldon
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Eponine - Aug 1, 2004 12:37 pm (#1738 of 2916)
There are different kinds of strength. What do you mean by a strong female? Someone with a strong, forceful personality, or someone with strength of character? Anyone who ends up with Harry is going to have to be strong to put up with him, but that doesn't mean her strength is going to be obvious.
The different girls we have been introduced to are strong in several ways. Ginny fought Tom Riddle for an entire year, and she had enough strength to get rid of the diary at one point. True, she gave in at the end, but she was only 11. How many 11 year olds do you think could have lasted that long?
Luna has another kind of strength. She is able to be her own delightfully different self in spite of her peers. She lost her mother at a young age, and I can tell you from personal experience, that losing a parent makes you stronger.
Hermione is one of the smartest witches at Hogwarts. Her strength is in her intellect, and she is not afraid of standing up for what she believes in.
There are particular kinds of strength, and Harry does need a strong female, but what kind does he need?
Oh, and sometimes when I read this thread, I swear we must all be reading different books.
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Green Eyes - Aug 1, 2004 1:25 pm (#1739 of 2916)
Boy! Everyone's been soo busy since my last post! Like I have said before...people will believe what they want to believe no matter what 'evidence' is presented.
Eponine, I think Harry does need a strong character but you are right to ask "what kind does he need?" Hermione is, of course a very strong character and we like her the way she is, smart, logical, full of information. She is also a bit bossy and tends to mother Harry...he needs some mothering...it's not a bad thing...but his reaction to her is like that of a son to a mother...he listens when HE solicits her help/info...but the minute she tries to tell him what to do...look out!
If Harry is going to have a 'ship by the end of the series...and I'll bet he will...it will have to be with someone who is strong enough to allow him to be who he is. And when we are talking about Harry, this means more than what it would for the average person. I mean he has to defeat Voldemort!
That said, lets now compare and contrast how each girl that Harry interacts with in OOTP (Cho, Ginny and Hermione) all react to situations that might be risky for Harry (or them for that matter). Cho is falling to pieces over Cedric's death...if she thinks that's hard, then she might as well hang herself if she thinks being Harry's girlfriend is a good idea! She clearly can't handle it. When she sides with Marietta at the end, she is siding with the ministry essentially.
Hermione is afraid to let Harry do or be who he is...just follow the rules and no one gets hurt! When push comes to shove she'll be loyal to her friend and stand with him but she has a difficult time of it. She said in SS that "it's not all books and cleverness..." yet she constantly expects Harry to deny his feelings and be careful. She may not be entirely wrong in her fears for him, but in the end books and rules will not save Harry. Thus, her relationship with Harry is at times strained.
Ginny seems to have a better handle on fear (perhaps 6 older brothers, perhaps TR/LV). She also seems to more instinctively understand Harry emotionally, again perhaps because she also felt dominated as a child. She is a strong person and as of book five her strength seems to be best suited for Harry (although he may not have consciously acknowledged this yet...kind of like Hermione and Ron not having acknowledged their own situation). She's strong enough to allow him to be/do what he needs to do without the fear that the others have. This bodes well for her ability to "handle" being in a relationship with Harry if it comes to that.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 2:16 pm (#1740 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But when you can't trust what she says in her interviews, I don't see why.
I have already tried to explain that, but let me just repeat: Even if the H/Hr shippers like myself turns out to be right, she has not really lied any time, as far as I know. She has come very close, but she has not lied, just been very secretive. Why would she be so secretive? Just for the fun of it. After having seen how many sites that are devoted to shipping discussions it seems a little strange to ask such a question.
Just a little example that JKR sometimes does make it look like she has answered a question, without really doing it (in this case she was caught)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
People on the internet want to know if Gilderoy Lockhart is going to come back.
Gilderoy Lockhart, bless him, is currently residing in St. Mungo’s Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries and his memory is still gone. So at the moment, he’s in no fit state to go anywhere. Which I think serves him right.
You didn’t quite answer the question as to whether he will be back or not.
Yeah, well, you know, you’ve got to sometimes dodge these things.
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Star Crossed - Aug 1, 2004 4:24 pm (#1741 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think the Gilderoy thing is different. I think she was pretty sure he would never show up, but she knows never say never.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 5:45 pm (#1742 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think the Gilderoy thing is different. I think she was pretty sure he would never show up, but she knows never say never.
Perhaps, but why do you think so? Is there anything wrong with saying: "Probably not, but you never know"?
Note that her original answer was correct, he did not go anywhere, we met him at St. Mungo's. If it had not been for the follow-up question we would have assumed that Gilderoy would not turn up again, but he did, and yet the answer was truthful.
And the "you’ve got to sometimes dodge these things" answer to the follow-up question make me believe that she knew exactly what she was doing.
So yes, I am perfectly able to question the quotes without feeling paranoid.
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drippan - Aug 1, 2004 6:05 pm (#1743 of 2916)
The question was asked wrong. It should have been will Lockhart show back up at Hogwart's? or in another part of the scenes?
I took the question probably as JKR did. Will Lockhart show back up. Well, pretty much everything is taking place at Hogwart's and I would be thinking of Hogwart's.
She answered it truthfully by thinking this way. She also closes the Lockhart file by saying he is still in St Mungo's. Does she see him in any other locations? No. That's why she answered "you've got to sometimes dodge these things" rethinking that people might count St Mungo's as an encounter.
Lockhart's role in OotP was nothing but a supporting role. He accomplished 3 things, but only 2 mattered:
1. We got to see Neville with his parents and his reaction.
2. It allowed H/R/HR/G to see the wizard from the DoM, how he got a plant, and how he was found dead later in the book.
3. He provided comic relief. I'm really proud that he can now write by "joining letters"!
Yep, JKR is quite good with the words. Also, but I'm not sure, that most of the interviews might have preplanned questions and answers. She reviews what she wants to answer (good for the integrity of the book) and the networks get honest and good answers from JKR. It's a give and take situation.
DripPan
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 6:27 pm (#1744 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
drippan
May I have a simple yes or no on this:
Do you agree that:
a) The original answer gave the impression that Lockhart would not come back.
b) That Lockhart did come back even if it was in a very minor role.
c) Nevertheless the answer was perfectly truthfull?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 1, 2004 7:23 pm (#1745 of 2916)
Yes. However, that was definately less tricky than what you've been suggesting. Not to mention that it's a kind of minor point and she might not have known if Lockhart would return at the time.
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Czarina II - Aug 2, 2004 12:09 am (#1746 of 2916)
She might not have been planning to put Lockhart back for a cameo back in 1999, but after people began to like him more, she added him in. The scene in Mungo's could be deleted from OoP and the story wouldn't change much, but that can be discussed elsewhere. In other words, Lockhart is irrelevant! So how JKR answered the question about him is different than her answers regarding which way Hermione 'ships.
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 2:24 am (#1747 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Czarina II and Luke E.A. Lockhart
If she was not planning to bring him back, why not say just ”no” or ”probably not”. To me the non-answer nature of the answer and the “dodging”-answer to the follow-up question only make sense if we assume that she knew exactly what she was saying and that we were indeed going to meet Lockhart at St. Mungo’s.
And yes, the incident are rather insignificant, which only proves that in JKR’s mind there is hardly any plot-point that is so unimportant that it is not worthwhile being secretive and misleading about it. So surely, shipping would qualify for a white (almost-)lie or two if the situation should demand it.
My stand still is that JKR was deliberately misleading with respect to Lockhart. Does that prove that she has been deliberately misleading us about shipping too? Certainly not! But in my mind it pretty much kills the idea that it is absolutely unthinkable that she would do so.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 3:42 am (#1748 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
That was brilliant "The One", beat R/Hr 'shippers at their own Game: JKR's quotes.
But I think JKR answered that question truthfully. She didnot say "Lockhart's not comming back". She just said "Lockhart's at St. Mungos and not in condition to go any where". Perfectly true.
So, my vote is: c) Nevertheless the answer was perfectly truthfull.
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total hatred - Aug 2, 2004 3:55 am (#1749 of 2916)
I agree. Analyzing how the statement is structured is the way we should analyze JKR statements. Not interpreting it literaly.
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drippan - Aug 2, 2004 4:30 am (#1750 of 2916)
The One, "May I have a simple yes or no on this"
No. The reason is that you put down three questions. Each one has to be answered individually, not as a whole. I'm not an attorney, but if you asked me 3 questions and wanted a yes or no as a whole to cover all the questions, it would be objected too! It's along the lines of entrapment.
Now, I will answer your questions one at a time.
"a) The original answer gave the impression that Lockhart would not come back."
No. The question before this is "Will Lupen be back?" which she answered and gave us a hint where.
She stated that Lockhart is in St Mungo's. So, is he back? He is in St Mungo's just where JKR told us he would be!! Not like Lupen, who is actually back.
"b) That Lockhart did come back even if it was in a very minor role."
Yes, right where JKR said he would be, at St Mungo's!
"c) Nevertheless the answer was perfectly truthfull?"
Yes or no. The key word here is "perfectly". Well, it depends on your point of view what perfect is, doesn't it? Take the word "perfectly" out and you get:
"Nevertheless the answer was truthfull?"
YES!
BTW, is there such a saying as "imperfectly truthfull"? I don't want to be known as the "imperfectly truthful" person. I think it would mean that I tell the truth but not perfectly.....
DripPan
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
<-- Charisteas with the Euro 2004 trophy
And I doubt R/Hr getting married and having eight kids is the heart of Harry Potter. -- Star Crossed.
Yeah, right; unless Tornedo's prediction on Hermione's thread comes true.
PS: Happy Birthday Harry
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Sir Tornado - Jul 30, 2004 8:50 pm (#1702 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
All right, now; I'd like to know why you guys support the 'ships you support.
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Kasse - Jul 30, 2004 11:40 pm (#1703 of 2916)
Tornedo - I support a R/HR ship simply because when I read GOF that is where the evidence pointed. I took their signs of jealousy (over Fleur and Krum)as signs that they like each other. I honestly do not see signs that point any where else.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 3:19 am (#1704 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
So; that's one reason for R/Hr 'shippers; Jealousy. Any others?
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TomProffitt - Jul 31, 2004 5:28 am (#1705 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Tornedo,
The reason I don't post that much on this thread is that I haven't really looked for evidence. I've gotten a feel for the characters as I've read the books. I probably am applying some of the lessons I've learned in life, the way I've seen people behave, perhaps. There's something about the way Jo writes that let's me add subtle mental images of what's going. Intuitively I've seen a Ron/Hermione 'ship for quite some time, but I couldn't point to a definite reason why.
It must go to basic assumptions I've made about the characters from the beginning. I'm certain all of us do it to some extent or another.
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Kasse - Jul 31, 2004 6:46 am (#1706 of 2916)
Tornedo - there are other reasons, that I am sure have already been mentioned but I will tell you two others that sealed it for me personally
When Harry compares Ron and Hermione to Mr and Mrs Whesly - I felt that this was JK trying to tell us something
And this simple quote "...And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am too," Hermione added as an afterthought. "But I don't think you're ugly," said Harry, bemused. Hermione laughed. "Harry, you're worse than Ron.... Well, no, you're not," she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall splattered with mud and looking grumpy......"
IMHO the sigh that Hermione gave spoke volumes
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 31, 2004 8:22 am (#1707 of 2916)
I support Ron/Hermione because to me it's obvious, and JKR has directly said that there will be no Harry/Hermione. Yes, that's right. Yes, technically you could argue about how her answers were worded, but JKR doesn't play that kind of mind game in her answers. Sometimes, her characters do, but she herself does not do anything of the sort.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 9:18 am (#1708 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well; Kasse, I wasn't asking for evidence supporting your 'ship; I was asking why you support it. For instance, here are the reasons why I support H/Hr.
1) Ron's just an ordinary kid, nothing extra-ordinary about him. On the other hand, both Harry and Hermione are extra-ordinary. It's like my Avatar says; Hermione's too good for Ron.
2) Frankly speaking, I hate Ron. I really liked him in first 3 books. But after the fight with Harry in 4th book, I started to hate him. In my opinion, in Book 5, he's too immature for a 15 year old.
3) This is one of the main reasons. When I read book 1, I was only 9. So, when I read the Harry and Hermione's parting scene after the potions puzzle, I was (at that time) sure that there was something between the two of them. I mean, I was only 9. I can now see that it was only a case of two friends saying farewell to each other. But at that time, I was sure that they would get together and became a H/Hr 'shipper. Now, as Mr Tony Blair said in 'House of Commons' recently, "It is noble to support the war and it is noble to oppose the war. Bit it is not noble to support and oppose the war in the same article." If I become a R/Hr 'shipper now, it'll be betrayal. I'm not about to do that, unless there is a concrete evidence.
4) I think H/Hr are the underdogs here and I ALWAYS support the underdogs. (Unless it is a soccer match in which Liverpool are playing )
So, I guess I'm a H/Hr 'shipper based on my principles more than on anything.
So, now tell me, why do you supprt the 'Ship you support?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Jul 31, 2004 11:48 am (#1709 of 2916)
I support R/Hr because of the evidence. As for which 'ship I would like to happen, I would say Harry/Luna, because Luna is so picked on that she deserves some popularity.
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 31, 2004 11:52 am (#1710 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Tornedo - I think H/Hr are the underdogs here and I ALWAYS support the underdogs.
If you REALLY want to support the underdogs, try the Harry/Pansy 'ship. :-)
So, now tell me, why do you supprt the 'Ship you support?
If you really want to know, come read the "Harry's 'ship uniting the houses' thread.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 12:01 pm (#1711 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
If you REALLY want to support the underdogs, try the Harry/Pansy 'ship. -- Prefect Marcus
I don't think H/P are exactly the underdogs... atleast not on this forum. You have managed to recruit a lot of H/P 'shippers. I bet there are more H/P 'shippers than H/Hr 'shippers on this forum.
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TomProffitt - Jul 31, 2004 12:04 pm (#1712 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
I'm into the Harry/Myrtle 'ship, because Ron the Seer predicted it, and because we know The Dark Lord can't die unless Harry dies, too. So Harry comes back at the end of 7 and has a 'ship with Myrtle.
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Sir Tornado - Jul 31, 2004 12:10 pm (#1713 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
He'll 'ship with the Bloody Baron before going to Myrtle.
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Kasse - Jul 31, 2004 5:39 pm (#1714 of 2916)
Tornedo - I would have to agree with Lockhart I support R/Hr because of the evidence, that has been given in the books so far....
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Hermione Weasley - Jul 31, 2004 6:11 pm (#1715 of 2916)
Crookshanks,
"Hermione Weasley , I really like you. You're name is inherently paradoxical to your views,but you still stick to both.Bravo !"
Thanks!! Actually my name is only a paradox in this thread because I do want to see a H/HR ship but I don't put anything past JKR as I've said before.
I named myself Hermione Weasley because I, IMHO, have the book smarts of Hermione but the red hair of the Weasleys'. P.S. Sorry took so long to post... I had to rework my wardrobe with a little shopping today...I haven't done that in an extremely long time. (I hate shopping...yeuck!)
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Czarina II - Jul 31, 2004 11:00 pm (#1716 of 2916)
Well, I support Ron/Hermione because:
a) Evidence in books. Enough said, won't go into detail. Waste of time.
b) JKR's comments. Again, enough said. But "are" does not strictly refer to the present. I would say "the Earth is round", but I fully expect that the Earth has BEEN round and WILL BE round.
c) Just the way the characters are written and how I sense their interactions. Just my opinion, no concrete facts.
d) Finally, because to me it would be a happy ending. Ron and Hermione together, bickering off into the sunset on the back of a Firebolt with a 'Just Married' sign... (Again, just my opinion.)
That's it.
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S.E. Jones - Jul 31, 2004 11:43 pm (#1717 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Tornedo: I'd like to know why you guys support the 'ships you support.
Personally, there are two reasons I subscribe to the R/Hr 'ship:
1) The evidence. I like facts and I think this is the 'ship most backed in canon. (I also think it has a good backing with psychology, as you've probably been able to tell from my posts.)
2) It's an old story. One of the oldest and most entertaining versions of a romance is one where the two romantic interests start out at odds. Elizabeth Bennet and Mr Darcy ('Pride and Prejudice'), Emma and Mr Knightly ('Emma'), Benedick and Beatrice ('Much Ado About Nothing'), Anne Shirley and Gilbert Blythe ('Anne of Green Gables'), Scarlet O'Hara and Rett Butler ('Gone With the Wind'), and a ton of old movies ('The Philadelphia Story', 'Bringing Up Baby', 'Bachelor and the Bobbysoxer', 'Double Wedding', 'Shop Around the Corner', 'Father Goose'...). All my favorite love stories.... Me and my sister have been watching old movies (which epitamize that grating tention) since we came out of the womb, literally (my mom is addicted to them and she passed that addiction on to us). We picked up on the R/Hr 'ship when we watched the first movie (that was how I was introduced to HP) during the scene where Hermione enters the train car and immediately starts bumping heads with Ron. It was confirmed for me when I then went and started reading the books (see reason #1).
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Sir Tornado - Aug 1, 2004 12:56 am (#1718 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
JKR's comments. Again, enough said. But "are" does not strictly refer to the present. I would say "the Earth is round", but I fully expect that the Earth has BEEN round and WILL BE round. -- Czarina II
Well; as far as "are" is concerned; you can say A and B are married. however, you have no guarentee that they would be married 2 years hence. there could be a divorce. IMHO, the fact that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends is NOT a universal truth. I mean, universal truths are something that NEVER change. D'you think you can compare the probablity for 2 platonic friends to change their relationship with Earth changing it's shape? Or Sun rising in the west? BTW, you can't say Harry and Hermione have always been platonic friends. They did not even know each other before they met on the train; and they became friends only on 31st Oct. Meaning, they spent 2 months disliking each other. So, the word "Are" in this case is not true for the past. How can you be so sure it is true for the future?
I just love the semantic arguments. You can prove absolutely anything if you have got the nerve to do so.
BTW, after hearing the reasons of the members for supporting their 'ships, I can now see why no one has been able to convince anyone regarding the 'ships. No one will be able to do so except JKR herself. But it's real fun arguing on this thread.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 1:32 am (#1719 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Czarina II
But "are" does not strictly refer to the present. I would say "the Earth is round", but I fully expect that the Earth has BEEN round and WILL BE round.
Some things are less likely to change than others.
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total hatred - Aug 1, 2004 1:43 am (#1720 of 2916)
I always support the underdogs. In fact at this moment, I am a H/(Hermione, Luna & Pansy) shipper. I can see the clue presented by the other ships and on my opinion, they are all rebutable. What R/Hr shipper consider as their greatest strength can be the source of their downfall. Don't whine that I can't see the light. In fact, in order to see the light you must first see the darkness. Maybe you are staring to what you call as light too much that you are now blind. Blind to distinguish what is logical or not.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 1, 2004 1:52 am (#1721 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Let's not name call people. We all have different opinions and we are entitled to them. Let's play nice....
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 2:21 am (#1722 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I feel some need to clarify my stand on the quotes question.
I am, like you fully aware what the quotes appear to be saying. But, that interpretation does not tally with how I read the books. But if my reading of the books are correct, and the romance between Harry and Hermione is going to be an important part of the last two books, I do not believe that you will be able to catch JKR in having told an outright lie anywhere. Dodging questions, yes, being misleading and hinting in the wrong direction, yes, but lying? No, I do not think that from any of the quotes I have seen we will be able to accuse her of that. A rather strange coincident, isn’t it? And as JKR is a mystery author who is paranoid about revealing her plot, a have no problem imaging her being deliberately misleading.
R/Hr believes that Hermione fancies Ron, Ron fancies Hermione and when they are ready to realise their love things will happen. But, there are signs in the books that may be interpreted as pointing in other directions. Some examples:
In GoF Hermione apparently has a relationship with an international Quiddich star, but it seems not to go to well because she is obsessed with Harry.
When Hermione believes Harry to be a prefect she is overjoyed and happy, but deflates quite a bit when it turns out to be Ron.
Hermione is too tired to celebrate that Ron is made keeper, but nevertheless musters the strength to try to recruit Harry for knitting with great enthusiasm.
My question is: Assuming that the Ron/Hermione ship is the one to sail, what is the point of these scenes? I see only one possible answer: They are there in order to trick fools like me into believing that Hermione’s heart lays with Harry, the scenes are there to make her love interests ambiguous.
Why would she do that, if she finds the idea of a Harry/Hermione relationship laughable, as the quotes indicates she does? And way would she tell us what is happening in the love department in interviews, when she still is working to keep the books ambiguous?
It may very well turn out that I make a fool out of myself, that Ron/Hermione is the big ship and that us that believed otherwise despite JKR sayings have missed the target completely. Time will show. But as things stand today, when my reading of the books does not tally at all with JKR interviews, I am quite ready to consider the possibility that the quotes should be discarded.
I understand that many of you do not agree with me, but I must admit that I do have some trouble understanding why some of you seem to find this idea outrageous.
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total hatred - Aug 1, 2004 3:02 am (#1723 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Aug 1, 2004 1:04 pm
That is a few things that the R/Hr shippers missed. They are just looking at things that looks so obvious but in their zeal to prove their ship, they overlooks some trivial clues that may or may not be a hazard to the ship
->Tone it down.<-
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 3:10 am (#1724 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
To answer Tornedos question.
Why do I believe in a Harry/Hermione realationship?
The clues and the personalities. I see real problems in the relationship between Ron and Hermione that do not prevent them from being friends, but probably will create problems in a romantic relationship. I see in the Harry/Hermione relationship a friendship that very well may develop into a love relationship, and in the later books I see clues that it will indeed do so.
A certain dislike for the Ron/Hermione relationship. I believe Hermione to be the stronger part in that relationship, and see her bullying her future husband Ron in much the same way as Molly sometimes bully Arthur. As I see it the mutual respect and balance is much stronger in a Harry/Hermione relationship than in the Ron/Hermione relationship.
I must admit that I love Hermione, but that after GoF I developed a slight dislike of Ron. (Tornedo, I also love your avatar!)
Symbolism. Over on Portkey site you can read a lot about different kinds of foreshadowing and symbolism that points towards a Harry/Hermione relationship. These points may be discarded as overanalysing and countered by similar points pointing in other directions of course, but for me they does form a consistent pattern that is hard do ignore.
Hero/Heroin pairing. As the books proceeds Hermione is getting increasingly more important to the story, while Ron have decreased in importance. We have got to a point where Hermione is the most important person in Harry’s life, and Harry is the most important person in Hermione’s life. If this continues I see no room in the story for any other relationship involving any of these two people. As I see it they are bound to go towards the final showdown with LV together, and as far as their love lives is concerned, either they will fall for each other, or they will both leave the series as single.
Love as a theme. Love has been important in all the books, love between friends, love between children and their parents etc. It is only logical that as the children grow older, also the love between the hero and his woman will be important. Not that romantic love is the big love that nullifies all other kinds of love, but it is the kind of love that so far have been mostly treated as comic relief, and it needs to enter the story in a more serious way to make the picture complete.
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total hatred - Aug 1, 2004 3:19 am (#1725 of 2916)
Personality wise Harry and Hermione complement each other Harry chaotic, has certain disregard for rules and impulsive Hermione is orderly, follows the rules and cool headed Only Harry can shut up Hermione without using to much force the reverse is true. A stare is more or less enough to keep the other silent. Both of them can sense each other's general feelings
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Sir Tornado - Aug 1, 2004 3:44 am (#1726 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
That is a few things that the R/Hr shippers missed. They are just looking at things that looks so obvious but in their zeal to prove their ship, they overlooks some trivial clues that may or may not be a hazard to the ship, -- total hatred
Total Hatred, I'm not a Mod. But your post sounds like you are accusing R/Hr 'shippers of something. I think you need to bring your tone down a bit. Just an opinion...
The One; tell me something, are you a teenager? I think most adults have let Ron off very lightly after his fight with Harry. I guess you are the only person apart from myself who has *slight* dislike of Ron.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 3:58 am (#1727 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The One; tell me something, are you a teenager?
No, I am more than twice your age.
Ron is a typical teenager with typical teenager problems, and in many ways a lovable boy, but he is old enough to take responsibility for his actions. His actions in GoF are in many ways understandable, but that does not make them right, and I have almost, but not quite forgiven him.
Perhaps the difference between us is that when I say "slight" I mean "slight", but your *slight* seems to be quite an understatement?
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Sir Tornado - Aug 1, 2004 4:11 am (#1728 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
My *slight* means I won't forgive Ron until he sacrifices himself to save Harry's life. I can see what your "slight" means now.
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drippan - Aug 1, 2004 5:06 am (#1729 of 2916)
"I think most adults have let Ron off very lightly after his fight with Harry."
I don't know if you'll take this the wrong way, but is it you who is suppose to forgive Ron? or Harry's right to forgive Ron?
Harry was the wronged party and, right after the dragon triwizard competition, Ron apologized and Harry forgave him. Harry understands where Ron was coming from and Ron sees Harry would not do that to himself. Also, we still saw that Ron still cared about Harry even when they weren't talking to each other.
BTW, it was Ron who approached Harry, not vice-a-versa! Harry could have done the same.
In OotP, Harry is mad at both Hermione and Ron for not writing him. Even after they explained why (and getting bit by Hedwig), he is still angry with them. Harry doesn't even apologize, but Ron/Hermione feel for him. IMO, Harry was wrong and it made me angry at him.
When he went to the DoM, Harry was wrong again. Did he or will he apolgize for this? He got everyone hurt! Why? Because he saw only one path....get to the DoM. Yes, they all went on their own accord but they were following Harry. They were not going to let Harry go alone! Why? Friendship!
What's this doing in the relationship thread? Well, friendship also ends in 'ship and is a major aspect of the book.
DripPan
P.S. Old saying "Build a bridge and get over it!" Ron and Harry have!
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 5:34 am (#1730 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Angry drippan? :-)
What was my point is that we do develop feelings for the characters, and those feelings will probably influence us when reading and interpreting the books. This is valid for me, and I expect it to be true for most readers.
As for me, that have Hermione and Harry as my favorite characters, and Ron less so, will tend to have easier for seeing Harry/Hermione together then other people that loves Ron more. It all has to do with perception.
While my personal likes and dislikes influence my shipping preferences, I do of course realize that my likes and dislikes in no way provides a reliable tool for predicting the outcome of the books. Nevertheless, it need to be mentioned to fully explain why I ship what I ship.
Whether it is "right" to like or dislike Ron or any other character, or how strong those feelings ought to be, is another question.
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Kasse - Aug 1, 2004 7:15 am (#1731 of 2916)
Total Hatered - you stated "Only Harry can shut up Hermione without using to much force the reverse is true. "
I have to disagree while Harry is able to shut Hermione up more often than most, he is not the only one who can do this. From Order of the Phoenix...."Ooooh, Dijon?" said Hermione excitedly. "I've been there on holiday, did you see --?" She fell silent at the look on Ron's face.
Also I believe there was a time when Ginny shut harry up by telling hime that he was being silly since to only person he knows to have been possesed by voldemort was her.
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drippan - Aug 1, 2004 8:04 am (#1732 of 2916)
The One, "Angry drippan?"
Nah!! It just appears that Harry forgave Ron right after Ron approached him. Water under the bridge. Harry or Ron have never brought up the incident afterwards. I think it also brought them closer together by realizing how close they really are.
I just wanted to show also that Harry done worse things than Ron did.
I mean, do you think Harry will apologize to Ron/Hermione/Ginny/Neville/Luna or Ginny for getting them hurt so he can "Go save Sirius"? I doubt it but I do know one thing, everyone of them would probably except his apology.
I'm trying to think if Harry has ever apologize for anything? The only one I can think of is when Ginny reminded him that she was also possessed by LV. He told her that he totally forgot about that.
Harry is still growing on how to interact with other people. He still doesn't understand that making mistakes does not mean that people stop loving you. Ron know this from living in a large family and that is why he kept checking on Harry and, why eventually, Ron approached Harry.
One last thing that you mentioned is your own personal view of relationships might cloud one's eye. This is very true. If you want the book to come out one way, you'll only see it in one way.
When I first came to the lexicon, I always thought R/Hr but since then, I have taken a more nuetral outlook because both sides have stated excellent points. I can see H/Hr, R/Hr, H/G, H/Susan, H/L and R/L. The only one I can't see is H/P (Sorry Marcus).
Still smiling,
DripPan
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Catherine - Aug 1, 2004 9:37 am (#1733 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Wow, I didn't read this thread for a few days and it exploded with posts. I'm still reeling from it all.
I'm mostly with the Hermione/Ron 'shippers, and for the reasons expressed recently by S. E. Jones in her explanation why she supports this ship.
As for Harry and Hermione, I think that there is a relationship to come for them, but not a romantic one. I think that Harry has taken Hermione for granted in some ways, and I think that his horror when she was hit by the curse in OoP shows how he cares about her more than he knows. I remember in OoP when the voice of caution in Harry's head is like Hermione's. She is a part of him, and I suspect he doesn't know how much. She has never betrayed Harry, and she has never let him down, even if he has been extremely angry with her.
I see Hermione very much as a loyal sister.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 1, 2004 9:54 am (#1734 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 1, 2004 10:17 am
Well, I am angry. Angry with Rowling. I would much prefer a H/H 'ship, but it is obvious that she is setting up a R/H 'ship.
How dare she!?!
EDIT: She is going to have to do something big for me to forgive her - say a H/P 'ship? :-)
(Ha Ha! Had you going there for a minute, didn't I?)
But seriously, I would much prefer H/H. Harry is the hero, and he needs a strong female beside him (if 17 years isn't too early for that). Hermione is the strongest female so far in the series. So he should get her.
However, as I have stated before, Harry is platonic with everyone. There is no more energy between him and Hermione, than there is between him and Ginny, Luna, Parvati, and practically any other girl.
But there is definite energy between Ron and Hermione. Now, I am NOT saying that either one of them fancies the other at this time. But unless something changes, the path they are on will lead to a 'ship.
So that is why I am a R/H 'shipper. Not that I want to be, but because that is the path that Rowling is marking out.
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Star Crossed - Aug 1, 2004 10:16 am (#1735 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
My *slight* means I won't forgive Ron until he sacrifices himself to save Harry's life. I can see what your "slight" means now.
I've gotten into a fight with every single one of my friends where we did not talk to each other. Does this mean I have to throw myself in front of a falling book in a library so they forgive me? Of course not. Fights happen. Fights make friendships stronger. I've had one friend whom I never had a fight with, and that ended in the middle school and three years later, we're still not friends. Friends need to fight. If they don't, they keep their anger bottled up.
I once read a fanfiction (That I know many have read here), that really made me understand something about Harry. He needs to see how loyal his friends are. He tries to push them away and waits for them to come back. If they don't, he erases them forever, if they do, he knows he can trust them.
As for R/Hr, I noticed a similiarity between them and Cory and Topanga from Boy Meets World. They're different from everyone else. I also think that Harry and Hermione might date once to finally get Ron to admit his feelings. Plus, you have Ron and Cory who have plain names, and then you have Topanga and Hermione who have odd names.
I don't see why JKR would like in her interviews about H/Hr. I can fully understand when people say "are", I can understand that. Agree, no, but I see where you're coming from. But when you can't trust what she says in her interviews, I don't see why. JKR has never given us reason to not trust what she says, I don't see why we should start. Well, unless you're talking about her maths...
R/Hr is obvious. But why does that mean it can't happen? Like I said before, getting together as a couple is not the basis of the books. It's not like we're going on a wild goose chase, trying to find the villan. Also, it sets up what every book is showing, Harry is going to end up alone. Not relationship wise, but he's the one. The one. Not a part of two, nor three, the one. He has to defeat Voldemort. That does not mean R/Hr won't be on the sidelines helping, they will help him just as they did for the second and third task. Help him find an answer, and then practice with him until he gets it right.
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tracie1976 - Aug 1, 2004 10:30 am (#1736 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
I have a question.
Now the interviews we all quote are at one point or another written beofre a certain book is released. Say if she gave the interview saying that Harry and Hermione were platonic friends before book five for example. Couldn't that possibly change in the next books? I say we don't take her interviews seriously into the future books because friendships/relationships can change. Harry and Hermione could be platonic friends in book five but in book seven they could be in a serious relationship in book seven.
Now as why I ship Harry and Hermione: I like the hidden clues: for example the hippogriff. Also I like how they interact with each other. They trust each other and are there for each other when they need it most times. I hate when Ron and Hermione argue. It reminds me of my children fighting over toys. Plus reading the essays on portkey shows how much symbolism is used for possible foreshadowing of Harry and Hermione's relationship.
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KWeldon - Aug 1, 2004 12:17 pm (#1737 of 2916)
Marcus,
I've heard you mention before that Harry needs a strong female, but I am going to have to disagree, in at least some respects, although perhaps it's how you define the term "strong".
To someone who has been emotionally abused all of his childhood and who carries the burdens that he does, I'm not so sure that a strong personality is what he needs. The sense I get about him is that he needs someone who will understand the unique perspective he has of things and provide emotional support for him, albeit in a form that HE dictates. That is, she better not try and smother him, or he'll run fast. This person must be very patient. This person has to build their relationship very delicately, given that he has never known intense love of any kind. A strong person would not be likely to do this.
IMHO, ideally the person would be independent enough to stand up to him when the purpose is suited, yet respect that he is going to do what he is going to do. There are multiple times that he in fact avoids Hermione so that he doesn't have to listen to her nagging.
Just my two cents.
KWeldon
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Eponine - Aug 1, 2004 12:37 pm (#1738 of 2916)
There are different kinds of strength. What do you mean by a strong female? Someone with a strong, forceful personality, or someone with strength of character? Anyone who ends up with Harry is going to have to be strong to put up with him, but that doesn't mean her strength is going to be obvious.
The different girls we have been introduced to are strong in several ways. Ginny fought Tom Riddle for an entire year, and she had enough strength to get rid of the diary at one point. True, she gave in at the end, but she was only 11. How many 11 year olds do you think could have lasted that long?
Luna has another kind of strength. She is able to be her own delightfully different self in spite of her peers. She lost her mother at a young age, and I can tell you from personal experience, that losing a parent makes you stronger.
Hermione is one of the smartest witches at Hogwarts. Her strength is in her intellect, and she is not afraid of standing up for what she believes in.
There are particular kinds of strength, and Harry does need a strong female, but what kind does he need?
Oh, and sometimes when I read this thread, I swear we must all be reading different books.
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Green Eyes - Aug 1, 2004 1:25 pm (#1739 of 2916)
Boy! Everyone's been soo busy since my last post! Like I have said before...people will believe what they want to believe no matter what 'evidence' is presented.
Eponine, I think Harry does need a strong character but you are right to ask "what kind does he need?" Hermione is, of course a very strong character and we like her the way she is, smart, logical, full of information. She is also a bit bossy and tends to mother Harry...he needs some mothering...it's not a bad thing...but his reaction to her is like that of a son to a mother...he listens when HE solicits her help/info...but the minute she tries to tell him what to do...look out!
If Harry is going to have a 'ship by the end of the series...and I'll bet he will...it will have to be with someone who is strong enough to allow him to be who he is. And when we are talking about Harry, this means more than what it would for the average person. I mean he has to defeat Voldemort!
That said, lets now compare and contrast how each girl that Harry interacts with in OOTP (Cho, Ginny and Hermione) all react to situations that might be risky for Harry (or them for that matter). Cho is falling to pieces over Cedric's death...if she thinks that's hard, then she might as well hang herself if she thinks being Harry's girlfriend is a good idea! She clearly can't handle it. When she sides with Marietta at the end, she is siding with the ministry essentially.
Hermione is afraid to let Harry do or be who he is...just follow the rules and no one gets hurt! When push comes to shove she'll be loyal to her friend and stand with him but she has a difficult time of it. She said in SS that "it's not all books and cleverness..." yet she constantly expects Harry to deny his feelings and be careful. She may not be entirely wrong in her fears for him, but in the end books and rules will not save Harry. Thus, her relationship with Harry is at times strained.
Ginny seems to have a better handle on fear (perhaps 6 older brothers, perhaps TR/LV). She also seems to more instinctively understand Harry emotionally, again perhaps because she also felt dominated as a child. She is a strong person and as of book five her strength seems to be best suited for Harry (although he may not have consciously acknowledged this yet...kind of like Hermione and Ron not having acknowledged their own situation). She's strong enough to allow him to be/do what he needs to do without the fear that the others have. This bodes well for her ability to "handle" being in a relationship with Harry if it comes to that.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 2:16 pm (#1740 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But when you can't trust what she says in her interviews, I don't see why.
I have already tried to explain that, but let me just repeat: Even if the H/Hr shippers like myself turns out to be right, she has not really lied any time, as far as I know. She has come very close, but she has not lied, just been very secretive. Why would she be so secretive? Just for the fun of it. After having seen how many sites that are devoted to shipping discussions it seems a little strange to ask such a question.
Just a little example that JKR sometimes does make it look like she has answered a question, without really doing it (in this case she was caught)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
People on the internet want to know if Gilderoy Lockhart is going to come back.
Gilderoy Lockhart, bless him, is currently residing in St. Mungo’s Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries and his memory is still gone. So at the moment, he’s in no fit state to go anywhere. Which I think serves him right.
You didn’t quite answer the question as to whether he will be back or not.
Yeah, well, you know, you’ve got to sometimes dodge these things.
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Star Crossed - Aug 1, 2004 4:24 pm (#1741 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think the Gilderoy thing is different. I think she was pretty sure he would never show up, but she knows never say never.
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 5:45 pm (#1742 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think the Gilderoy thing is different. I think she was pretty sure he would never show up, but she knows never say never.
Perhaps, but why do you think so? Is there anything wrong with saying: "Probably not, but you never know"?
Note that her original answer was correct, he did not go anywhere, we met him at St. Mungo's. If it had not been for the follow-up question we would have assumed that Gilderoy would not turn up again, but he did, and yet the answer was truthful.
And the "you’ve got to sometimes dodge these things" answer to the follow-up question make me believe that she knew exactly what she was doing.
So yes, I am perfectly able to question the quotes without feeling paranoid.
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drippan - Aug 1, 2004 6:05 pm (#1743 of 2916)
The question was asked wrong. It should have been will Lockhart show back up at Hogwart's? or in another part of the scenes?
I took the question probably as JKR did. Will Lockhart show back up. Well, pretty much everything is taking place at Hogwart's and I would be thinking of Hogwart's.
She answered it truthfully by thinking this way. She also closes the Lockhart file by saying he is still in St Mungo's. Does she see him in any other locations? No. That's why she answered "you've got to sometimes dodge these things" rethinking that people might count St Mungo's as an encounter.
Lockhart's role in OotP was nothing but a supporting role. He accomplished 3 things, but only 2 mattered:
1. We got to see Neville with his parents and his reaction.
2. It allowed H/R/HR/G to see the wizard from the DoM, how he got a plant, and how he was found dead later in the book.
3. He provided comic relief. I'm really proud that he can now write by "joining letters"!
Yep, JKR is quite good with the words. Also, but I'm not sure, that most of the interviews might have preplanned questions and answers. She reviews what she wants to answer (good for the integrity of the book) and the networks get honest and good answers from JKR. It's a give and take situation.
DripPan
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The One - Aug 1, 2004 6:27 pm (#1744 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
drippan
May I have a simple yes or no on this:
Do you agree that:
a) The original answer gave the impression that Lockhart would not come back.
b) That Lockhart did come back even if it was in a very minor role.
c) Nevertheless the answer was perfectly truthfull?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 1, 2004 7:23 pm (#1745 of 2916)
Yes. However, that was definately less tricky than what you've been suggesting. Not to mention that it's a kind of minor point and she might not have known if Lockhart would return at the time.
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Czarina II - Aug 2, 2004 12:09 am (#1746 of 2916)
She might not have been planning to put Lockhart back for a cameo back in 1999, but after people began to like him more, she added him in. The scene in Mungo's could be deleted from OoP and the story wouldn't change much, but that can be discussed elsewhere. In other words, Lockhart is irrelevant! So how JKR answered the question about him is different than her answers regarding which way Hermione 'ships.
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 2:24 am (#1747 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Czarina II and Luke E.A. Lockhart
If she was not planning to bring him back, why not say just ”no” or ”probably not”. To me the non-answer nature of the answer and the “dodging”-answer to the follow-up question only make sense if we assume that she knew exactly what she was saying and that we were indeed going to meet Lockhart at St. Mungo’s.
And yes, the incident are rather insignificant, which only proves that in JKR’s mind there is hardly any plot-point that is so unimportant that it is not worthwhile being secretive and misleading about it. So surely, shipping would qualify for a white (almost-)lie or two if the situation should demand it.
My stand still is that JKR was deliberately misleading with respect to Lockhart. Does that prove that she has been deliberately misleading us about shipping too? Certainly not! But in my mind it pretty much kills the idea that it is absolutely unthinkable that she would do so.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 3:42 am (#1748 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
That was brilliant "The One", beat R/Hr 'shippers at their own Game: JKR's quotes.
But I think JKR answered that question truthfully. She didnot say "Lockhart's not comming back". She just said "Lockhart's at St. Mungos and not in condition to go any where". Perfectly true.
So, my vote is: c) Nevertheless the answer was perfectly truthfull.
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total hatred - Aug 2, 2004 3:55 am (#1749 of 2916)
I agree. Analyzing how the statement is structured is the way we should analyze JKR statements. Not interpreting it literaly.
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drippan - Aug 2, 2004 4:30 am (#1750 of 2916)
The One, "May I have a simple yes or no on this"
No. The reason is that you put down three questions. Each one has to be answered individually, not as a whole. I'm not an attorney, but if you asked me 3 questions and wanted a yes or no as a whole to cover all the questions, it would be objected too! It's along the lines of entrapment.
Now, I will answer your questions one at a time.
"a) The original answer gave the impression that Lockhart would not come back."
No. The question before this is "Will Lupen be back?" which she answered and gave us a hint where.
She stated that Lockhart is in St Mungo's. So, is he back? He is in St Mungo's just where JKR told us he would be!! Not like Lupen, who is actually back.
"b) That Lockhart did come back even if it was in a very minor role."
Yes, right where JKR said he would be, at St Mungo's!
"c) Nevertheless the answer was perfectly truthfull?"
Yes or no. The key word here is "perfectly". Well, it depends on your point of view what perfect is, doesn't it? Take the word "perfectly" out and you get:
"Nevertheless the answer was truthfull?"
YES!
BTW, is there such a saying as "imperfectly truthfull"? I don't want to be known as the "imperfectly truthful" person. I think it would mean that I tell the truth but not perfectly.....
DripPan
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 1751 to 1800)
Elanor Sun May 15, 2011 2:32 am
Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 9:29 am (#1751 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I agree with DripPan. I never imagined I'd agree with DripPan on this thread; but hey, miracles do happen don't they?
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Kieran Burke - Aug 2, 2004 11:03 am (#1752 of 2916)
Just like to remind everyone that this is the Exploring Relationships page and not a 'Studying JKR's Quotes' or Avatars page!
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 11:10 am (#1753 of 2916)
Can anyone find the JKR quote where she says that whoever Harry goes out with will be in all seven books? Because if it doesn't exist, I'm going to the Harry/Luna 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 2, 2004 1:02 pm (#1754 of 2916)
She does not explicitly say whom Harry is going to date, if anyone.
Luna seems like a good candidate... but then, there are a few others as well...
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 1:11 pm (#1755 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Can anyone find the JKR quote where she says that whoever Harry goes out with will be in all seven books?
The rumors is that the quote is from some German interview, and it has been discussed at quite a number of sites, but no one seems to be able to locate it.
I believe that the consensus now is that the quote does not exist.
PS. I believe that Luna is destined for Ron, but I must admit I am unable to prove that...
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Star Crossed - Aug 2, 2004 1:29 pm (#1756 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think Luna fancies Ron, but I can't see him liking her back.
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total hatred - Aug 2, 2004 2:17 pm (#1757 of 2916)
I can't be sure about that. There are some trivial clues about her fancying Ron but I believe it is not strong enough to prove that she fancies Ron. BTW, It bugs me why Katie Bell is adamant in retaining Ron in the team ignoring the fact he is a lousy Keeper. I sense a deeper reason in it. Maybe she fancies Ron
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 2:30 pm (#1758 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think Luna fancies Ron, but I can't see him liking her back.
Actually I agree with you in that, and I do not really know how much I believe or like the idea because of that. Let me nevertheless give my reasons for the proposal. (I am sure you will not like all of it, but lets give it try anyway.)
(And this is the one I do not really like myself.) I believe that the Harry/Hermione ship is inevitable, and I do not really believe in any major fallout in the trio because of that. Giving Ron another girl to worry about is a good way to achieve that, and so far Luna is the only candidate.
(This is the one I do not expect you to like) Ron’s big problem is that those close to him overshadow him. I do not believe that a Ron/Hermione relationship is a good thing, because then Ron will also feel overshadowed by his future wife. Not a good thing. Ron will not feel overshadowed by Luna because of her strangeness, but nevertheless, once you see through her strange appearance she is a powerful girl and a worthy partner. Luna may also have the strength to teach Ron to accept himself as he is, and thus solve many of the issues that have been discussed on other threads.
(My main reason for liking the idea.) I have a strange feeling that even if Luna is very strange, she is powerful and quite capable off achieving her goals. I have a strange feeling that JKR likes the girl, and do not intend to make her a total looser. Hence, if Luna decides to go for Ron, I have a strange feeling that JKR is inclined to let her get what she wants, and Ron has better to watch out! (Of course, there are other ways to avoid being a looser than to capture Ron, but there you are.)
(You are probably not going to like this one either.) One of Ron’s functions in the series have been to provide comic relief, and the idea to watch Ron getting used to the strangest girl at school have some potential. Especially after he refused to date Eloise Midgeon because her nose was off-centre.
(This is the only one besides Luna’s apparent crush on Ron that is actually based on clues from the book. And I admit it is a very far-reaching conclusion based on a rather weak clues.) The Lovegoods seems to live not far from the Burrow, according to “The Portkey” chapter of GoF. I expect that Luna will turn up during the summer to recruit Ron as an assistant for the great Swedish Crumple-Horned Snorkack Expedition. Ron will be reluctant, but as Mr. Lovegood will actually be able to pay his assistant, he will accept. And being away from the other kids, he will actually be to see her strengths, as Harry did at the end of OotP, instead of being embarrassed.
That was all. It is far, very far, from inevitable, but it is a theory.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 3:02 pm (#1759 of 2916)
"The Lovegoods seems to live not far from the Burrow, according to “The Portkey” chapter of GoF. I expect that Luna will turn up during the summer to recruit Ron as an assistant for the great Swedish Crumple-Horned Snorkack Expedition. Ron will be reluctant, but as Mr. Lovegood will actually be able to pay his assistant, he will accept. And being away from the other kids, he will actually be to see her strengths, as Harry did at the end of OotP, instead of being embarrassed."
I like this theory. It makes sense, and the idea on Ron doing something like that for money is pretty funny. I'm not converted to a Ron/Luna 'ship, but this could happen irregardless of whether or not anything romantic happens.
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 3:41 pm (#1760 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I like this theory. It makes sense, and the idea on Ron doing something like that for money is pretty funny. I'm not converted to a Ron/Luna 'ship, but this could happen irregardless of whether or not anything romantic happens.
Glad you liked it. And I agree, this may happen even if it does not result in anything romantic! Whatever happens to this ship, I expect Luna to be important in the next books, and forging a friendship between Ron and Luna is a possible way to integrate her into Harry's circle of friends.
Poor Hermione, if both Harry and Ron develops a close friendship with Luna! She will really have to struggle to behave!
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drippan - Aug 2, 2004 4:11 pm (#1761 of 2916)
The One, "I have a strange feeling that JKR likes the girl, and do not intend to make her a total looser."
Luna is not a total loser! If you can, can you specify over in the Luna thread why you feel this way?
DripPan
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 4:20 pm (#1762 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
No, not really, because it is a bad formulation. I do not think she is a looser, but she probably is perceived as one by her peers. Nevertheless, she is strange and I feel that if she goes for Ron, JKR will let her succeed.
But even if I use this feeling as basis for the ship, I am not quit ready to start a discussion of my perception of Luna at her thread. Perhaps later.
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drippan - Aug 2, 2004 4:29 pm (#1763 of 2916)
The One, "Nevertheless, she is strange...."
Now, I can agree with that!! She is different from the normal student!
Tornedo, "I agree with DripPan. I never imagined I'd agree with DripPan on this thread; but hey, miracles do happen don't they? "
I almost had a heart attack!! Thanks, Tornedo
DripPan
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Magika - Aug 2, 2004 5:07 pm (#1764 of 2916)
The One: "Ron’s big problem is that those close to him overshadow him. I do not believe that a Ron/Hermione relationship is a good thing, because then Ron will also feel overshadowed by his future wife."
Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that Ron might be choosing to be overshadowed? He's grown up to be overshadowed, he doesn't know how it is to be the best. Maybe he feels safe by not being the best. I know he complains and all that, but as I always attract weird boys, maybe Ron attracts people that overshadows him?
That's why I think Hermione would be a better fit for him - simply because all of his closest overshadows him. Why should his girlriend be any different?
-Si-
EDIT. If this doesn't make sense, please forgive me... It's two in the morning here...
EDIT 2: And who's talking about future wives? LOL. Let them get together first, then we can discuss marriage later...
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 2, 2004 5:39 pm (#1765 of 2916)
I like the idea of a Ron/Luna ship....fits well perfectly with my wanting to see a H/Hr ship.... ;-D
I am thinking:
1) H/HR ship 2) R/Luna ship 3) no ship for Viktor except the Durmstrang ship 4) G/with anyone else (besides Harry) who can deal with her forthrightness 5) Neville/Hannah
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 6:00 pm (#1766 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
5) Neville/Hannah
What about Neville/Susan Bones? For some reason I like that better then Hanna. Do not know why.
And I also thinks that Minerva/Mad-Eye would be kind of cute. They are both tough and strict, but with a big heart. (I Believe.)
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Chris. - Aug 2, 2004 6:06 pm (#1767 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Neville and Susan may fit as they have both been afflicted by the first war of Voldemort.
I like to think Minerva has had a husband, and maybe children, at one time. But I don't think she'll get together with Moody sometime.
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TomProffitt - Aug 2, 2004 6:09 pm (#1768 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Neville/Hannah?
Ernie and Hannah are almost always talked about at the same time. If I was going to predict any ship and have to put money on it, that's where I would go. I think they are already 'shipping, but we just don't see it because we're in the wrong house.
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 2, 2004 6:18 pm (#1769 of 2916)
Let me justify myself... I initially said Hannah because I honestly couldn't think of anyone else who I could "see" with Neville. Susan? No, I think she might turn out to be a lot like her auntie and I can't imagine Neville being that forthright, same with Ginny. Parvati or Lavender? ABSOLUTELY NOT, I think Neville needs someone a bit less superficial. Hermione? No, I mean, she's been nice to him and all but she's just too strong of a character and Neville isn't (yet). Any of the Slytherin girls? I can't believe I just said that...you know what I mean... I said Hannah because I get the impression that she might be a bit bumbling too. Correct me if I'm wrong!
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drippan - Aug 2, 2004 6:28 pm (#1770 of 2916)
Hermione Weasley, "Correct me if I'm wrong!"
That is one statement that nobody on the forum has doing, even if they are wrong!!
DripPan
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 2, 2004 7:27 pm (#1771 of 2916)
LOL Exactly my point DripPan!
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Czarina II - Aug 2, 2004 7:42 pm (#1772 of 2916)
I actually like the idea of a Harry/Luna ship. (Luna is currently in second-place on my list of Girls Whom Harry Should Consider Romantically.) That would leave Ron and Hermione to themselves. Ron and Luna don't seem to interact at all, which is rather necessary (especially in literature) for a meaningful, lasting relationship. Ron and Luna interact by association: Ron is a brother of Ginny, who is a friend of Luna. They are acquaintances. I don't think they say anything to each other directly in OoP.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 9:30 pm (#1773 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Wow, now we are seeing a Neville/Hannah 'Ship. Can someone point me some evidence there? BTW, I think mention of a Neville/Hannah suggests how much we want to see 'Shipping in HP. I mean; why does everybody needs to be 'Shipped after just leaving school? I think the possiblities of Neville remaining single after Hogwarts are more than a possiblities of a Neville/Hannah 'ship. Ron/Luna? I'd prefer Ron to die a Hero's death and redeem himself for his betrayal of Harry in GoF.
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tracie1976 - Aug 2, 2004 9:48 pm (#1774 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Tornedo: Ron/Luna? I'd prefer Ron to die a Hero's death and redeem himself for his betrayal of Harry in GoF.
I think Luna could show Ron what he has is worth something and to be happy with what he's got and that he does not have to live up to "out-do" his older brothers. May do him some good. As for Ron dying a Hero's death...heck just kill him off who cares how he dies.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 10:07 pm (#1775 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
As for Ron dying a Hero's death...heck just kill him off who cares how he dies. -- Tracie1976.
Now now Tracie; Ron fans won't like that would they?
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Magika - Aug 3, 2004 1:54 am (#1776 of 2916)
No, they wouldn't! I would prefer Ron living a long happy life with Hermione, and I think he will. As for Luna and Ron - Ron doesn't like her very much at all, does he? I just can't see any reasons why this should happen, other than that she seems to have a slight interest in him.
Isn't it a bit harsh to say "As for Ron dying a Hero's death...heck just kill him off who cares how he dies."???
-Si-
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Sir Tornado - Aug 3, 2004 2:14 am (#1777 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
It is.
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Magika - Aug 3, 2004 3:36 am (#1778 of 2916)
That's what I thought...
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total hatred - Aug 3, 2004 3:40 am (#1779 of 2916)
Come on give Ron some respect. In is fitting that he die in style rather die in obsurity. After all he sort of a lead character, if he is ever to die. I wish he die in a slow and excruciating death. Only cowards take the easy way out. Die Ron Die
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Sir Tornado - Aug 3, 2004 4:08 am (#1780 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, I'd prefer Ron to jump in between Voldemort and Harry and take an AK curse on. In that way, he'd be protecting Harry and helping defeat Lord Voldemort. He'd be a Hero. He'd be famous. Wasn't that what he always wanted? To be as famous as the Great Harry Potter? What does this have to do on this thread? Well; if Ron snuffs; it'll surely be a H/Hr ending.
Only cowards take the easy way out. -- total hatred
I don't think that's true. Sirius did not die a slow and painfull death. Neither did Cedric. Yet, they were by no means cowards.
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Magika - Aug 3, 2004 4:33 am (#1781 of 2916)
Ok... while I'm not Cho Chang's biggest fan, at least I don't want her to die a slow and painful death! Why do you hate Ron, total hatred?
If Ron has to die (which I really hope he doesn't) I believe he will die honourably, not in a cowardly way.
And I agree, Tornedo, Neither Sirius nor Cecric were cowards. But I wouldn't neccessarily say that they chose the easy way out either.
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Star Crossed - Aug 3, 2004 5:10 am (#1782 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
...I feel personally offended by all the talks of Ron dying. He's my favourite character, and you're talking about him like he's a rag doll that a girl has grown too old for, so you just ship the doll to someone else. Tornedo, if Ron does die, JKR forbid, that does not guarentee a H/Hr ship. You think because their best friend is killed, they're going to start snogging like wild animals? Great lesson for kids.
What if Hermione dies? Then we don't have to worry about arguing for R/Hr or H/Hr. We can all live in, hopeful, peace.
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Kasse - Aug 3, 2004 7:27 am (#1783 of 2916)
I am a R/Hr shipper. Do you guys see that if Ron dies (thus in many peoples oppinion clearing a path for the H/Hr ship) what that would do to Harry? Do not forget that the thing Harry would have missed most for the second task was Ron. Also even when him and Ron were not speaking he misses Ron stating something to the extent of it is not as much fun with just Hermione around didn't he? Correct me if I am wrong.
Also I agree with star crossed if Ron does die that does not guarantee a H/Hr ship.
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tracie1976 - Aug 3, 2004 7:39 am (#1784 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Just because I want Ron dead does not mean it will clear a way for H/Hr ship. If you read the Ron thread you will see how I feel about him.
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Veritaserum - Aug 3, 2004 8:47 am (#1785 of 2916)
Go Jays!
Hi, I'm new here, so terribly sorry if this doesn't belong, but it was a theory involving multiple characters, and I couldn't find a better place for it.
I believe that in a way, HRH parallel the Marauders, though not in the way everyone thinks. Harry in fact parallels Sirius, and Ron parallels James. My evidence for H=S is 1)both grew up in crummy families 2)both run away to spend time at their friend's houses 3)both had reasons to be in Slytherin (Sirius because of family, and Harry because of Voldielocks). Ron=James because: 1)Hermione and Ron are always fighting, just like Lily and James, and both are obviously going to end up together 2)they both messed up their hair after Quidditch in OOP 3)both come from wizarding families and play host to their best friends.
I realize this isn't the most thought out theory, and it doesn't really have a conclusion. Sorry if someone already has the same theory, but I'd love to see what you think about it.
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Padfoot - Aug 3, 2004 9:47 am (#1786 of 2916)
I skip reading this thread for a few days and there is so much to catch up on!
I think Aly (Star Crossed) summed up my thoughts nicely in her post: #1735 . Especially when she said: "R/Hr is obvious. But why does that mean it can't happen? Like I said before, getting together as a couple is not the basis of the books. It's not like we're going on a wild goose chase, trying to find the villan. Also, it sets up what every book is showing, Harry is going to end up alone. Not relationship wise, but he's the one. The one. Not a part of two, nor three, the one. He has to defeat Voldemort. That does not mean R/Hr won't be on the side lines helping, they will help him just as they did for the second and third task. Help him find an answer, and then practice with him until he gets it right."
All this talk of Ron dying irritates me. I know, I know, we all have characters that are our favorites and some we think should snuff it. But really! Ron is one of my favorite characters who Harry needs and values his friendship. If he dies, Harry and Hermione will be devastated.
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Carmen Green - Aug 3, 2004 11:06 am (#1787 of 2916)
~starving writer~
I'm not so sure I want Ron to die at all. Maybe Luna will die instead, if someone absolutely must die.
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Veritaserum - Aug 3, 2004 12:48 pm (#1788 of 2916)
Go Jays!
Luna will not die. I think she and Harry will become friends, not necessarily romantic, but they do share the whole losing of a parent/seeing thestrals thing. Actually, I think Ginny will also play a bigger part in Harry's life, not just the books. I can't really see Harry getting together with anyone by the end of the series. I just don't think the books are enough of a romance for that.
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TomProffitt - Aug 3, 2004 4:17 pm (#1789 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
OotP begins and ends withe same six students in a compartment on the train. Harry, Ron, Neville, Hermione, Ginny, and Luna. Coincidentally the same six who fought the battle of the Department of Mysteries.
The first three books centered on HRH. GoF was a transitional book where Ron discovers that Hermione is a girl. (What winning way he has in asking her for a date) All of the others, excepting Luna, have their first dates as well.
I submit the possibility the last three books will be about the six, as opposed to the three. And that by the end of the series each of them will be 'shipping with another.
I would pair them as R/Hr, H/G, and N/L, but I'm more interested if any of the rest of you see a similar connection with the six than if you agree on the pairings.
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timrew - Aug 3, 2004 4:21 pm (#1790 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
I can't really see Harry getting together with anyone by the end of the series. I just don't think the books are enough of a romance for that.
Agreed, Veritaserum. The only romances that have been shown in the books so far are those developing between Ron & Hermione, and Bill & Fleur. There is no evidence for any others (except maybe Hagrid and Madame Maxime!).
But I still can't see any wedding looming in book 7 for any of our three heroes. After all, they'll still only be 17!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 1:00 am (#1791 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
What if Hermione dies? Then we don't have to worry about arguing for R/Hr or H/Hr. We can all live in, hopeful, peace. -- Star Crossed
Aly; I'm offended upon learning that you want Hermione --my favourite character-- to die just because YOU want to live in peace. She; unlike Ron; doesn't deserve to die.
Luna will die instead, if someone absolutely must die -- Carmen.
Why do you guys want MY favourite characters to die? Is there a conspiracy against me? What am I going to see next? Harry dying? Hagrid dying? To quote DripPan; "You are all Evil!!"
Why do I want to see Ron die? Check my recent posts on Ron Weasley thread.
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 4, 2004 1:57 am (#1792 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Isn't kind of crappy to want any character to die. I mean even DD doesn't want Voldy to die. I find it fine if people predict who they think will die, but actually desiring it comes across as being nasty. Although, I have jokingly requested Vernon should die, I feel that the requests for painful deaths have made this thread kind of morose. I would like this thread to go back to playful bantering about whose ship will sail and whose will remain at the port. I for one am a Hr/R and a H/P shipper. at Marcus.
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Magika - Aug 4, 2004 3:33 am (#1793 of 2916)
I couldn't agree more, Sleeping Beauty. It has gone too far when we're discussing which caracters we want to see die slow and painful deaths. I don't even want Voldie - oh wait... Yes I do. But not Ron, not Hermione. Not even Cho Chang!
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Star Crossed - Aug 4, 2004 5:55 am (#1794 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Aly; I'm offended upon learning that you want Hermione --my favourite character-- to die just because YOU want to live in peace. She; unlike Ron; doesn't deserve to die.
I was offended by people saying Ron should die. Unlike some of the people on here, I was joking. And I agree with Sleeping Beauty (Lovely avatar, by the way), we should get this back on topic. Does anyone think we will ever see a wizard wedding? I would love to see Olympe and Hagrid get married. Ever since I re-read Ella Enchanted, it made me wonder if giants have a special way of getting married. I doubt it, due to their nature, but it is possible.
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Kasse - Aug 4, 2004 6:35 am (#1795 of 2916)
I thnik Bill and Fleur would be agreat wedding to read about, but then agian she is a little young to be thinking about that sort of thing....
If we do see a wedding I would agreee and say it would most probably be Olympe and Hagrid.
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Czarina II - Aug 4, 2004 8:50 am (#1796 of 2916)
What's wrong with Bill and Fleur? Fleur was at least 17 at the beginning of GoF. She was probably 18 by the end, so at the end of OoP she'd be around 19. At the end of HbP, she'd be 20. That's not THAT young to get married. (Not that I'd want to.) James and Lily got married about that age. Bill is a bit older -- he'd be 25 or 26 at the end of HbP. Not a bad age at all to get married. Compared with 17 or 18, 20 is a fine age for Fleur to get married.
Besides, I'd love to read the description of the male characters' reactions to a quarter-Veela in a wedding gown!
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Kasse - Aug 4, 2004 8:56 am (#1797 of 2916)
Besides, I'd love to read the description of the male characters' reactions to a quarter-Veela in a wedding gown! - Czarina II
....that would be great (no to meantion) very funny to read about. You are right maybe she would not be too young....
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James T. Kirk - Aug 4, 2004 2:21 pm (#1798 of 2916)
Captain USS Enterprise NCC 1701-A
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ron and Hermione are made for each other, I see them married with about six kids, three boys, three girls. The girls have their mom's good looks and intelligence, the boys are just like dear ol' dad, and all the kids have red hair.
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weasley by nature - Aug 4, 2004 2:50 pm (#1799 of 2916)
I looked through the entire thread and I couldn't find any Bill+Tonks supporters. Although this has not been mentioned whatsoever in the books and so I have no quotes I think it would be a cute couple. Bill with his fang earing and dragon hide boots looking so "cool." and tonks with her shocking hair, love for the weird sisters and similarly cool attitude. I just don't see Bill and Fleur as being that great of a couple, Bill needs a rocker chick. Also they both seem to have a taste for adventure considering their career choices. Just a thought. It probably would've been brought up if it was really going to happen though, and then the Bill-Fleur thing wouldn't have been mentioned since neither of them are that important. Oh well, I guess I just hope it happens.
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timrew - Aug 4, 2004 3:01 pm (#1800 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
James T. Kirk:- I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ron and Hermione are made for each other, I see them married with about six kids, three boys, three girls
What, by the end of book 7?
Edit: I just noticed I got post 1800. Wooohoooo! The year I was born!!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Rebel without a cause.
I agree with DripPan. I never imagined I'd agree with DripPan on this thread; but hey, miracles do happen don't they?
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Kieran Burke - Aug 2, 2004 11:03 am (#1752 of 2916)
Just like to remind everyone that this is the Exploring Relationships page and not a 'Studying JKR's Quotes' or Avatars page!
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 11:10 am (#1753 of 2916)
Can anyone find the JKR quote where she says that whoever Harry goes out with will be in all seven books? Because if it doesn't exist, I'm going to the Harry/Luna 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 2, 2004 1:02 pm (#1754 of 2916)
She does not explicitly say whom Harry is going to date, if anyone.
Luna seems like a good candidate... but then, there are a few others as well...
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 1:11 pm (#1755 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Can anyone find the JKR quote where she says that whoever Harry goes out with will be in all seven books?
The rumors is that the quote is from some German interview, and it has been discussed at quite a number of sites, but no one seems to be able to locate it.
I believe that the consensus now is that the quote does not exist.
PS. I believe that Luna is destined for Ron, but I must admit I am unable to prove that...
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Star Crossed - Aug 2, 2004 1:29 pm (#1756 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think Luna fancies Ron, but I can't see him liking her back.
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total hatred - Aug 2, 2004 2:17 pm (#1757 of 2916)
I can't be sure about that. There are some trivial clues about her fancying Ron but I believe it is not strong enough to prove that she fancies Ron. BTW, It bugs me why Katie Bell is adamant in retaining Ron in the team ignoring the fact he is a lousy Keeper. I sense a deeper reason in it. Maybe she fancies Ron
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 2:30 pm (#1758 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think Luna fancies Ron, but I can't see him liking her back.
Actually I agree with you in that, and I do not really know how much I believe or like the idea because of that. Let me nevertheless give my reasons for the proposal. (I am sure you will not like all of it, but lets give it try anyway.)
(And this is the one I do not really like myself.) I believe that the Harry/Hermione ship is inevitable, and I do not really believe in any major fallout in the trio because of that. Giving Ron another girl to worry about is a good way to achieve that, and so far Luna is the only candidate.
(This is the one I do not expect you to like) Ron’s big problem is that those close to him overshadow him. I do not believe that a Ron/Hermione relationship is a good thing, because then Ron will also feel overshadowed by his future wife. Not a good thing. Ron will not feel overshadowed by Luna because of her strangeness, but nevertheless, once you see through her strange appearance she is a powerful girl and a worthy partner. Luna may also have the strength to teach Ron to accept himself as he is, and thus solve many of the issues that have been discussed on other threads.
(My main reason for liking the idea.) I have a strange feeling that even if Luna is very strange, she is powerful and quite capable off achieving her goals. I have a strange feeling that JKR likes the girl, and do not intend to make her a total looser. Hence, if Luna decides to go for Ron, I have a strange feeling that JKR is inclined to let her get what she wants, and Ron has better to watch out! (Of course, there are other ways to avoid being a looser than to capture Ron, but there you are.)
(You are probably not going to like this one either.) One of Ron’s functions in the series have been to provide comic relief, and the idea to watch Ron getting used to the strangest girl at school have some potential. Especially after he refused to date Eloise Midgeon because her nose was off-centre.
(This is the only one besides Luna’s apparent crush on Ron that is actually based on clues from the book. And I admit it is a very far-reaching conclusion based on a rather weak clues.) The Lovegoods seems to live not far from the Burrow, according to “The Portkey” chapter of GoF. I expect that Luna will turn up during the summer to recruit Ron as an assistant for the great Swedish Crumple-Horned Snorkack Expedition. Ron will be reluctant, but as Mr. Lovegood will actually be able to pay his assistant, he will accept. And being away from the other kids, he will actually be to see her strengths, as Harry did at the end of OotP, instead of being embarrassed.
That was all. It is far, very far, from inevitable, but it is a theory.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 2, 2004 3:02 pm (#1759 of 2916)
"The Lovegoods seems to live not far from the Burrow, according to “The Portkey” chapter of GoF. I expect that Luna will turn up during the summer to recruit Ron as an assistant for the great Swedish Crumple-Horned Snorkack Expedition. Ron will be reluctant, but as Mr. Lovegood will actually be able to pay his assistant, he will accept. And being away from the other kids, he will actually be to see her strengths, as Harry did at the end of OotP, instead of being embarrassed."
I like this theory. It makes sense, and the idea on Ron doing something like that for money is pretty funny. I'm not converted to a Ron/Luna 'ship, but this could happen irregardless of whether or not anything romantic happens.
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 3:41 pm (#1760 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I like this theory. It makes sense, and the idea on Ron doing something like that for money is pretty funny. I'm not converted to a Ron/Luna 'ship, but this could happen irregardless of whether or not anything romantic happens.
Glad you liked it. And I agree, this may happen even if it does not result in anything romantic! Whatever happens to this ship, I expect Luna to be important in the next books, and forging a friendship between Ron and Luna is a possible way to integrate her into Harry's circle of friends.
Poor Hermione, if both Harry and Ron develops a close friendship with Luna! She will really have to struggle to behave!
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drippan - Aug 2, 2004 4:11 pm (#1761 of 2916)
The One, "I have a strange feeling that JKR likes the girl, and do not intend to make her a total looser."
Luna is not a total loser! If you can, can you specify over in the Luna thread why you feel this way?
DripPan
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 4:20 pm (#1762 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
No, not really, because it is a bad formulation. I do not think she is a looser, but she probably is perceived as one by her peers. Nevertheless, she is strange and I feel that if she goes for Ron, JKR will let her succeed.
But even if I use this feeling as basis for the ship, I am not quit ready to start a discussion of my perception of Luna at her thread. Perhaps later.
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drippan - Aug 2, 2004 4:29 pm (#1763 of 2916)
The One, "Nevertheless, she is strange...."
Now, I can agree with that!! She is different from the normal student!
Tornedo, "I agree with DripPan. I never imagined I'd agree with DripPan on this thread; but hey, miracles do happen don't they? "
I almost had a heart attack!! Thanks, Tornedo
DripPan
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Magika - Aug 2, 2004 5:07 pm (#1764 of 2916)
The One: "Ron’s big problem is that those close to him overshadow him. I do not believe that a Ron/Hermione relationship is a good thing, because then Ron will also feel overshadowed by his future wife."
Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that Ron might be choosing to be overshadowed? He's grown up to be overshadowed, he doesn't know how it is to be the best. Maybe he feels safe by not being the best. I know he complains and all that, but as I always attract weird boys, maybe Ron attracts people that overshadows him?
That's why I think Hermione would be a better fit for him - simply because all of his closest overshadows him. Why should his girlriend be any different?
-Si-
EDIT. If this doesn't make sense, please forgive me... It's two in the morning here...
EDIT 2: And who's talking about future wives? LOL. Let them get together first, then we can discuss marriage later...
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 2, 2004 5:39 pm (#1765 of 2916)
I like the idea of a Ron/Luna ship....fits well perfectly with my wanting to see a H/Hr ship.... ;-D
I am thinking:
1) H/HR ship 2) R/Luna ship 3) no ship for Viktor except the Durmstrang ship 4) G/with anyone else (besides Harry) who can deal with her forthrightness 5) Neville/Hannah
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The One - Aug 2, 2004 6:00 pm (#1766 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
5) Neville/Hannah
What about Neville/Susan Bones? For some reason I like that better then Hanna. Do not know why.
And I also thinks that Minerva/Mad-Eye would be kind of cute. They are both tough and strict, but with a big heart. (I Believe.)
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Chris. - Aug 2, 2004 6:06 pm (#1767 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Neville and Susan may fit as they have both been afflicted by the first war of Voldemort.
I like to think Minerva has had a husband, and maybe children, at one time. But I don't think she'll get together with Moody sometime.
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TomProffitt - Aug 2, 2004 6:09 pm (#1768 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Neville/Hannah?
Ernie and Hannah are almost always talked about at the same time. If I was going to predict any ship and have to put money on it, that's where I would go. I think they are already 'shipping, but we just don't see it because we're in the wrong house.
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 2, 2004 6:18 pm (#1769 of 2916)
Let me justify myself...
I initially said Hannah because I honestly couldn't think of anyone else who I could "see" with Neville. Susan? No, I think she might turn out to be a lot like her auntie and I can't imagine Neville being that forthright, same with Ginny. Parvati or Lavender? ABSOLUTELY NOT, I think Neville needs someone a bit less superficial. Hermione? No, I mean, she's been nice to him and all but she's just too strong of a character and Neville isn't (yet). Any of the Slytherin girls? I can't believe I just said that...you know what I mean... I said Hannah because I get the impression that she might be a bit bumbling too. Correct me if I'm wrong! - - - - - - - - - -
drippan - Aug 2, 2004 6:28 pm (#1770 of 2916)
Hermione Weasley, "Correct me if I'm wrong!
" That is one statement that nobody on the forum has doing, even if they are wrong!!
DripPan
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 2, 2004 7:27 pm (#1771 of 2916)
LOL Exactly my point DripPan!
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Czarina II - Aug 2, 2004 7:42 pm (#1772 of 2916)
I actually like the idea of a Harry/Luna ship. (Luna is currently in second-place on my list of Girls Whom Harry Should Consider Romantically.) That would leave Ron and Hermione to themselves. Ron and Luna don't seem to interact at all, which is rather necessary (especially in literature) for a meaningful, lasting relationship. Ron and Luna interact by association: Ron is a brother of Ginny, who is a friend of Luna. They are acquaintances. I don't think they say anything to each other directly in OoP.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 9:30 pm (#1773 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Wow, now we are seeing a Neville/Hannah 'Ship. Can someone point me some evidence there? BTW, I think mention of a Neville/Hannah suggests how much we want to see 'Shipping in HP. I mean; why does everybody needs to be 'Shipped after just leaving school? I think the possiblities of Neville remaining single after Hogwarts are more than a possiblities of a Neville/Hannah 'ship. Ron/Luna? I'd prefer Ron to die a Hero's death and redeem himself for his betrayal of Harry in GoF.
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tracie1976 - Aug 2, 2004 9:48 pm (#1774 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Tornedo: Ron/Luna? I'd prefer Ron to die a Hero's death and redeem himself for his betrayal of Harry in GoF.
I think Luna could show Ron what he has is worth something and to be happy with what he's got and that he does not have to live up to "out-do" his older brothers. May do him some good. As for Ron dying a Hero's death...heck just kill him off who cares how he dies.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 2, 2004 10:07 pm (#1775 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
As for Ron dying a Hero's death...heck just kill him off who cares how he dies. -- Tracie1976.
Now now Tracie; Ron fans won't like that would they?
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Magika - Aug 3, 2004 1:54 am (#1776 of 2916)
No, they wouldn't! I would prefer Ron living a long happy life with Hermione, and I think he will. As for Luna and Ron - Ron doesn't like her very much at all, does he? I just can't see any reasons why this should happen, other than that she seems to have a slight interest in him.
Isn't it a bit harsh to say "As for Ron dying a Hero's death...heck just kill him off who cares how he dies."???
-Si-
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Sir Tornado - Aug 3, 2004 2:14 am (#1777 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
It is.
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Magika - Aug 3, 2004 3:36 am (#1778 of 2916)
That's what I thought...
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total hatred - Aug 3, 2004 3:40 am (#1779 of 2916)
Come on give Ron some respect. In is fitting that he die in style rather die in obsurity. After all he sort of a lead character, if he is ever to die. I wish he die in a slow and excruciating death. Only cowards take the easy way out. Die Ron Die
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Sir Tornado - Aug 3, 2004 4:08 am (#1780 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, I'd prefer Ron to jump in between Voldemort and Harry and take an AK curse on. In that way, he'd be protecting Harry and helping defeat Lord Voldemort. He'd be a Hero. He'd be famous. Wasn't that what he always wanted? To be as famous as the Great Harry Potter? What does this have to do on this thread? Well; if Ron snuffs; it'll surely be a H/Hr ending.
Only cowards take the easy way out. -- total hatred
I don't think that's true. Sirius did not die a slow and painfull death. Neither did Cedric. Yet, they were by no means cowards.
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Magika - Aug 3, 2004 4:33 am (#1781 of 2916)
Ok... while I'm not Cho Chang's biggest fan, at least I don't want her to die a slow and painful death! Why do you hate Ron, total hatred?
If Ron has to die (which I really hope he doesn't) I believe he will die honourably, not in a cowardly way.
And I agree, Tornedo, Neither Sirius nor Cecric were cowards. But I wouldn't neccessarily say that they chose the easy way out either.
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Star Crossed - Aug 3, 2004 5:10 am (#1782 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
...I feel personally offended by all the talks of Ron dying. He's my favourite character, and you're talking about him like he's a rag doll that a girl has grown too old for, so you just ship the doll to someone else. Tornedo, if Ron does die, JKR forbid, that does not guarentee a H/Hr ship. You think because their best friend is killed, they're going to start snogging like wild animals? Great lesson for kids.
What if Hermione dies? Then we don't have to worry about arguing for R/Hr or H/Hr. We can all live in, hopeful, peace.
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Kasse - Aug 3, 2004 7:27 am (#1783 of 2916)
I am a R/Hr shipper. Do you guys see that if Ron dies (thus in many peoples oppinion clearing a path for the H/Hr ship) what that would do to Harry? Do not forget that the thing Harry would have missed most for the second task was Ron. Also even when him and Ron were not speaking he misses Ron stating something to the extent of it is not as much fun with just Hermione around didn't he? Correct me if I am wrong.
Also I agree with star crossed if Ron does die that does not guarantee a H/Hr ship.
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tracie1976 - Aug 3, 2004 7:39 am (#1784 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Just because I want Ron dead does not mean it will clear a way for H/Hr ship. If you read the Ron thread you will see how I feel about him.
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Veritaserum - Aug 3, 2004 8:47 am (#1785 of 2916)
Go Jays!
Hi, I'm new here, so terribly sorry if this doesn't belong, but it was a theory involving multiple characters, and I couldn't find a better place for it.
I believe that in a way, HRH parallel the Marauders, though not in the way everyone thinks. Harry in fact parallels Sirius, and Ron parallels James. My evidence for H=S is 1)both grew up in crummy families 2)both run away to spend time at their friend's houses 3)both had reasons to be in Slytherin (Sirius because of family, and Harry because of Voldielocks). Ron=James because: 1)Hermione and Ron are always fighting, just like Lily and James, and both are obviously going to end up together 2)they both messed up their hair after Quidditch in OOP 3)both come from wizarding families and play host to their best friends.
I realize this isn't the most thought out theory, and it doesn't really have a conclusion. Sorry if someone already has the same theory, but I'd love to see what you think about it.
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Padfoot - Aug 3, 2004 9:47 am (#1786 of 2916)
I skip reading this thread for a few days and there is so much to catch up on!
I think Aly (Star Crossed) summed up my thoughts nicely in her post: #1735 . Especially when she said: "R/Hr is obvious. But why does that mean it can't happen? Like I said before, getting together as a couple is not the basis of the books. It's not like we're going on a wild goose chase, trying to find the villan. Also, it sets up what every book is showing, Harry is going to end up alone. Not relationship wise, but he's the one. The one. Not a part of two, nor three, the one. He has to defeat Voldemort. That does not mean R/Hr won't be on the side lines helping, they will help him just as they did for the second and third task. Help him find an answer, and then practice with him until he gets it right."
All this talk of Ron dying irritates me. I know, I know, we all have characters that are our favorites and some we think should snuff it. But really! Ron is one of my favorite characters who Harry needs and values his friendship. If he dies, Harry and Hermione will be devastated.
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Carmen Green - Aug 3, 2004 11:06 am (#1787 of 2916)
~starving writer~
I'm not so sure I want Ron to die at all. Maybe Luna will die instead, if someone absolutely must die.
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Veritaserum - Aug 3, 2004 12:48 pm (#1788 of 2916)
Go Jays!
Luna will not die. I think she and Harry will become friends, not necessarily romantic, but they do share the whole losing of a parent/seeing thestrals thing. Actually, I think Ginny will also play a bigger part in Harry's life, not just the books. I can't really see Harry getting together with anyone by the end of the series. I just don't think the books are enough of a romance for that.
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TomProffitt - Aug 3, 2004 4:17 pm (#1789 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
OotP begins and ends withe same six students in a compartment on the train. Harry, Ron, Neville, Hermione, Ginny, and Luna. Coincidentally the same six who fought the battle of the Department of Mysteries.
The first three books centered on HRH. GoF was a transitional book where Ron discovers that Hermione is a girl. (What winning way he has in asking her for a date) All of the others, excepting Luna, have their first dates as well.
I submit the possibility the last three books will be about the six, as opposed to the three. And that by the end of the series each of them will be 'shipping with another.
I would pair them as R/Hr, H/G, and N/L, but I'm more interested if any of the rest of you see a similar connection with the six than if you agree on the pairings.
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timrew - Aug 3, 2004 4:21 pm (#1790 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
I can't really see Harry getting together with anyone by the end of the series. I just don't think the books are enough of a romance for that.
Agreed, Veritaserum. The only romances that have been shown in the books so far are those developing between Ron & Hermione, and Bill & Fleur. There is no evidence for any others (except maybe Hagrid and Madame Maxime!).
But I still can't see any wedding looming in book 7 for any of our three heroes. After all, they'll still only be 17!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 1:00 am (#1791 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
What if Hermione dies? Then we don't have to worry about arguing for R/Hr or H/Hr. We can all live in, hopeful, peace. -- Star Crossed
Aly; I'm offended upon learning that you want Hermione --my favourite character-- to die just because YOU want to live in peace. She; unlike Ron; doesn't deserve to die.
Luna will die instead, if someone absolutely must die -- Carmen.
Why do you guys want MY favourite characters to die? Is there a conspiracy against me? What am I going to see next? Harry dying? Hagrid dying? To quote DripPan; "You are all Evil!!"
Why do I want to see Ron die? Check my recent posts on Ron Weasley thread.
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 4, 2004 1:57 am (#1792 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
Isn't kind of crappy to want any character to die. I mean even DD doesn't want Voldy to die. I find it fine if people predict who they think will die, but actually desiring it comes across as being nasty. Although, I have jokingly requested Vernon should die, I feel that the requests for painful deaths have made this thread kind of morose. I would like this thread to go back to playful bantering about whose ship will sail and whose will remain at the port. I for one am a Hr/R and a H/P shipper. at Marcus.
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Magika - Aug 4, 2004 3:33 am (#1793 of 2916)
I couldn't agree more, Sleeping Beauty. It has gone too far when we're discussing which caracters we want to see die slow and painful deaths. I don't even want Voldie - oh wait... Yes I do. But not Ron, not Hermione. Not even Cho Chang!
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Star Crossed - Aug 4, 2004 5:55 am (#1794 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Aly; I'm offended upon learning that you want Hermione --my favourite character-- to die just because YOU want to live in peace. She; unlike Ron; doesn't deserve to die.
I was offended by people saying Ron should die. Unlike some of the people on here, I was joking. And I agree with Sleeping Beauty (Lovely avatar, by the way), we should get this back on topic. Does anyone think we will ever see a wizard wedding? I would love to see Olympe and Hagrid get married. Ever since I re-read Ella Enchanted, it made me wonder if giants have a special way of getting married. I doubt it, due to their nature, but it is possible.
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Kasse - Aug 4, 2004 6:35 am (#1795 of 2916)
I thnik Bill and Fleur would be agreat wedding to read about, but then agian she is a little young to be thinking about that sort of thing....
If we do see a wedding I would agreee and say it would most probably be Olympe and Hagrid.
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Czarina II - Aug 4, 2004 8:50 am (#1796 of 2916)
What's wrong with Bill and Fleur? Fleur was at least 17 at the beginning of GoF. She was probably 18 by the end, so at the end of OoP she'd be around 19. At the end of HbP, she'd be 20. That's not THAT young to get married. (Not that I'd want to.) James and Lily got married about that age. Bill is a bit older -- he'd be 25 or 26 at the end of HbP. Not a bad age at all to get married. Compared with 17 or 18, 20 is a fine age for Fleur to get married.
Besides, I'd love to read the description of the male characters' reactions to a quarter-Veela in a wedding gown!
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Kasse - Aug 4, 2004 8:56 am (#1797 of 2916)
Besides, I'd love to read the description of the male characters' reactions to a quarter-Veela in a wedding gown! - Czarina II
....that would be great (no to meantion) very funny to read about. You are right maybe she would not be too young....
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James T. Kirk - Aug 4, 2004 2:21 pm (#1798 of 2916)
Captain USS Enterprise NCC 1701-A
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ron and Hermione are made for each other, I see them married with about six kids, three boys, three girls. The girls have their mom's good looks and intelligence, the boys are just like dear ol' dad, and all the kids have red hair.
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weasley by nature - Aug 4, 2004 2:50 pm (#1799 of 2916)
I looked through the entire thread and I couldn't find any Bill+Tonks supporters. Although this has not been mentioned whatsoever in the books and so I have no quotes I think it would be a cute couple. Bill with his fang earing and dragon hide boots looking so "cool." and tonks with her shocking hair, love for the weird sisters and similarly cool attitude. I just don't see Bill and Fleur as being that great of a couple, Bill needs a rocker chick. Also they both seem to have a taste for adventure considering their career choices. Just a thought. It probably would've been brought up if it was really going to happen though, and then the Bill-Fleur thing wouldn't have been mentioned since neither of them are that important. Oh well, I guess I just hope it happens.
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timrew - Aug 4, 2004 3:01 pm (#1800 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
James T. Kirk:- I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ron and Hermione are made for each other, I see them married with about six kids, three boys, three girls
What, by the end of book 7?
Edit: I just noticed I got post 1800. Wooohoooo! The year I was born!!
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Star Crossed - Aug 4, 2004 3:40 pm (#1801 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
James T. Kirk:- I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ron and Hermione are made for each other, I see them married with about six kids, three boys, three girls
What, by the end of book 7?
Of course not, dear, by the end of HBP. After all, where else will we get the HBP?
Weasley by nature,
I've pondered Bill/Tonks, but I think Charlie/Tonks would be more suitable. I can't put my finger on why, but I just think Charlie is more like her.
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Kasse - Aug 4, 2004 3:47 pm (#1802 of 2916)
I agree with Star Crossed, I would prefer a Charlie/Tonks (or to be truthful even a Snape/Tonks but I know I will not have many supporters in that area)
I am pretty sure that Bill/Fleur is already set in stone
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Magika - Aug 4, 2004 4:41 pm (#1803 of 2916)
Timrew, I thought you very middle-aged, not ancient?
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timrew - Aug 4, 2004 5:02 pm (#1804 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Okay, I'm not 204. I just feel it some days!
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Catherine - Aug 4, 2004 5:46 pm (#1805 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tim,
I think that if you WERE a 'Tween, you would change the world for the funnier. And you still can, because we are separated by a continent, and I laugh out loud, which I almost NEVER DO, except when you write something.
Cheers to the King of Spew...
--Catherine
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Upulwan - Aug 4, 2004 6:40 pm (#1806 of 2916)
Magika said at 2 in the morning coupla days ago,
"Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that Ron might be choosing to be overshadowed? He's grown up to be overshadowed, he doesn't know how it is to be the best. Maybe he feels safe by not being the best. I know he complains and all that, but as I always attract weird boys, maybe Ron attracts people that overshadows him?
That's why I think Hermione would be a better fit for him - simply because all of his closest overshadows him. Why should his girlriend be any different?"
Magika, that certainly is an interesting possibility,(specially since you thought it up at 2 a.m) although one that dooms him to a really miserable lifetime ahead... he may unitentionally 'attract' people who overshadow him, and he may even feel comfortable that way, but at a certain level it'll always eat at him and he might spend half his life wishing he was different.
I also think his 'second-best' mindset is slowly changing. In Phoenix we see him going off to fight his own battles: signing up for Quidditch is a start isn't it? And in the one great instance of Ron's personal triumph in the whole canon (i.e the last Quidditch match) he is on his own, his two great 'overshadowers' having gone to visit Grawp. I think that's a taste of what's to come, Ron coming into his own...
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Upulwan - Aug 4, 2004 6:45 pm (#1807 of 2916)
I've asked this elsewhere, and it's probably been discussed too though I missed it, but in Chapter 14 of Phoenix (Percy and Padfoot), after Ron's chucked Percy's sermon into the fire, Hermione looks at him with an 'odd expression' on her face... What do you think it is? (ple...ase don't say 'lurrrve', all you R/Hr's, could have figured that out myself except I think there's more to it and don't know what)
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 8:32 pm (#1808 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
That expression was probably Pity. BTW; Hermione's looked at Harry with an 'odd expression' plenty of times.
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Star Crossed - Aug 4, 2004 8:33 pm (#1809 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it's realization, that Percy really isn't the perfect guy. The two always got along well, except for their spat in GoF. Personally, I think she looked up to him. He was prefect, head boy, great grades, got high up in the MoM fast. I think that letter made her realise something big. Something like people with the best grades weren't perfect.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 9:17 pm (#1810 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I think the Star is right there.
Edit: Wow, I just agreed with Aly on the 'Shipping thread.
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 4, 2004 9:24 pm (#1811 of 2916)
I know this is off thread but as we are talking about Percy right now I wonder if Fred and George ever jinxed one of his badges to read Percy is a Prat! (I personally think Percy's just confused...by the way, whatever happened to Penelope?)
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Chris. - Aug 4, 2004 9:47 pm (#1812 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I have been lurking here for days now! But I return.
I seem to remember someone, who I think was Tornedo, said Hermione wouldn't die because she hasn't done anything wrong, but Ron deserves to die. On what grounds?
Personally, I'm still sailing on the Ron/Hermione 'ship. As for Harry, it's a tough one. It's between Susan Bones and Ginny Weasley.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 9:58 pm (#1813 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I seem to remember someone, who I think was Tornedo, said Hermione wouldn't die because she hasn't done anything wrong, but Ron deserves to die. On what grounds? -- Prongs
Prongs, read my posts on Ron Weasley thread for the last 4 days. That'll tell you why.
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Chris. - Aug 4, 2004 10:14 pm (#1814 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Just read Tornedo's posts on the "Ron Weasley" thread.
You said on one occasion that Hermione qualified to be a saint. Yes, she's your favourite character, but she is definately not a saint. Ron had an argument with Harry over the TWT but they made up, and Harry has forgave Ron. Why can't we, eh?
And now to another 'ship.... Dumbledore and Madam Pomfrey! This is not a joke. I personally think there's a connection between them two.
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drippan - Aug 5, 2004 4:01 am (#1815 of 2916)
Hey Prongs and Tornedo,
The "Ron thing" needs to be kept on the Ron thread. We've posted alot over there and if we start doing it here, people won't get the whole picture or the same arguments will be repeated twice.
BTW, there is a big difference in saying "who is JKR going to kill off" and saying you think "someone deserves to die". This sounds like you need to visit a psychiatrist to work out your "hatred" issues. IMO, no one deserves to die, but death is a part of life an must be accepted as just that.
Just my opinion,
DripPan
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Star Crossed - Aug 5, 2004 6:23 am (#1816 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Aug 5, 2004 6:24 am
I think the Star is right there.
Edit: Wow, I just agreed with Aly on the 'Shipping thread.
Golly Marie, the stars have aligned. And now I'm sort of mad at you. (EDIT: Not really.) I always actually pictured us as Hermione and Percy arguing about Winky. We could be great friends if we never mentioned "Winky". Anyways...
This Dumbledore/Poppy thing. It scares me. I guess it's possible, they act like blasted teens. With Dumbledore's earmuff comment, and the way she always gives into him (True, he's ranked high above her), it all seems so teenagerish. It's sort of cute.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 5, 2004 7:30 am (#1817 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I always actually pictured us as Hermione and Percy arguing about Winky. -- Star Crossed
Aly; are you comparing me with Percy? Now I'm really mad at you. You are sooo EVIL. (DripPan; you have really addicted me into saying that to anyone and everyone.)
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Green Eyes - Aug 5, 2004 8:10 am (#1818 of 2916)
I'm not sure I understand the discussion about Ron being overshadowed. Yes, as the youngest of six brothers, he has to rise up and prove himself and perhaps HE feels overshadowed. But Ron, kind of like Ginny is on the rise in book 5. He starts out shaky on the Quidditch field but finally gains his confidence. He is made prefect and Harry thinks to himself "he must have something I don't."
His ability to go at it with Hermione shows that he will not allow her to "dominate" him the way that she tends to do. The fact that she sees him as "having the emotional range of a teaspoon" does not mean that it is so. A case can be made that Hermione's emotional range isn't great either. She is so convinced of her intellectual superiority that she sometimes overlooks other aspects of the human psyche that cannot be explained in a book. I think she will learn this. They are all growing up. I also don't think Ron will die...children in fairy tales usually do pretty well. They may have a hard road, but they survive...that's the whole point of the story.
Luna, as of book five, is functioning as a character through who Harry learns about himself. He also has feelings of pity towards her, not yet even feelings of friendship. She is Loony...alot of people think Harry is loony in OOTP too. How does he treat someone who is loony in light of this fact? He treats her kindly. The same way he treats Neville and Ginny too. He knows Ginny has a crush, yet he never teases or is cruel to her about it. Dobby gets similar treatment. I don't see Luna in a romantic situation with any of the main characters...although the names Luna and Neville Longbottom have nice alliteration ...all those "L's" This of course is just pure speculation. But look how it is actually printed in the US version of OOTP when Ginny introduces them on the train...Luna Lovegood - Neville Longbottom. Their names are connected by a dash which suggested a connection. Who knows?!
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Crookshanks - Aug 5, 2004 9:50 am (#1819 of 2916)
Hi all,seems too much of activity over the last week here !
Green Eyes - If Harry is going to have a 'ship by the end of the series...and I'll bet he will...it will have to be with someone who is strong enough to allow him to be who he is
What do you think Hermione does towards the end of OotP ? Allow him to act as he feels right though she quite knows he's wrong. And she loyally stands by him too.I don't see many occasions where Harry has not allowed to be who he is as the books are progressing.She seems to understand Harry better than probably himself.
Kasse - Do you guys see that if Ron dies (thus in many peoples oppinion clearing a path for the H/Hr ship) what that would do to Harry? Do not forget that the thing Harry would have missed most for the second task was Ron. Also even when him and Ron were not speaking he misses Ron stating something to the extent of it is not as much fun with just Hermione around didn't he? Correct me if I am wrong.
I'd proposed an argument for this on 'Who dies in Books 6/7' thread,which wasn't hooted at.We can expect Harry to kill Voldie,not may be by using AK,but by that force which Voldie desists - emotions.Next to Sirius,I think the closest to Harry is Ron & it's probably only his death that can help him 'open' up all emotions,just as Harry 'used Sirius' to get rid of Voldie,the snake.(I prefer a R/Hr ending to Ron's death though). With respect to part 2 of your statement,trends seemed to change in OotP, and BTW,who's the girl Harry likes most ?
There're issues like Harry & Hermione act like siblings etc...But,intense fighting is such an indispensable part of siblinghood & it certainly doesn't seem so intense between Harry & Hermione.Tell me,how many of you don't fight tooth & nail with your siblings.Tracie is right in comparing Ron & Hermione to her children.My sister(cousin,but a week older to me & closer to me than my own sister,who is a decade younger to me) always fights with me over practically any issue pretty much like what Hermione does with Ron.That's one reason both of us support anything but the R/Hr 'ship,because we see so much of ourselves in that.I was so jealous of her first date that I made holes in her new dress just before she was supposed to wear it & leave,and we always have a fight over that idiot of a guy.(Sorry if it's boring to read this).With our personal situations like these,both of us are open to anything but R/Hr.
On the other hand, H/Hr isn't very concrete now,so I'm still not sailing any 'ship other than Dobby/Winky.
As for Harry,personally I feel Hermione is best suited,just as he is for her.Ginny & Luna have pretty much the same rating with respect to Harry.Pansy & Susan have work to do to stay in contention.
PS:Prof.Jeeves,could you give me the algorithm for the 'Love Calculator' ? I want to check my prospects on that.....
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drippan - Aug 5, 2004 9:59 am (#1820 of 2916)
Tornedo, "You are sooo EVIL. (DripPan; you have really addicted me into saying that to anyone and everyone.)"
The actual saying is:
"You are Evil, therefore, you must be killed".
I say this in joking. I use it when something is near and dear to my heart. It would be like someone saying "Harry Potter is going to be a Death Eater!". "They are Evil, therefore,..........."
S.E. deleted the remainder. Even though it is meant as a joke, she felt that it could be taken as a threat.
Hopefully, it'll stay in this time........PLEASE!
DripPan
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Padfoot - Aug 5, 2004 10:46 am (#1821 of 2916)
Slightly off topic here, but I was reading one of the Narnia books last night and thought of the R/H 'ship. It was the very end of The Horse and His Boy where the character's future lives were summed up. The main two characters (Shasta/Cor and Aravis) were said to be always fighting and then making up. They eventually got married to make their fighting more convenient (Can't remember the exact quote). But anyway, I thought of R/H and see that being included in the last chapter of book 7.
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Alianora - Aug 5, 2004 2:34 pm (#1822 of 2916)
I love that line Padfoot, I always crack up when I read the end of that book! I bet Rowling could make it even funnier.
Personally, I'm Ron/Hermione, just because it seems obvious to me, and Rowling has said it, but hey, we'll know in due time so arguing doesn't seem much use to me. But, carry on! : D
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Star Crossed - Aug 5, 2004 5:42 pm (#1823 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Padfoot, I read that book after I read the HP series, and I actually had to look back at the names to make sure Ron and Hermione's names weren't written.
Aly; are you comparing me with Percy? Now I'm really mad at you. You are sooo EVIL. (DripPan; you have really addicted me into saying that to anyone and everyone.)
Of course not, dear, I actually never figured out who either of us would be. I'll get back to you on it. Mwah.
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weasley by nature - Aug 6, 2004 3:48 am (#1824 of 2916)
Yea I guess Charlie and Tonks would be cool too. Tonks is an Auror and Charlie is a dragon tamer(is that what he's called?) so they also both have adventurous career choices. And maybe Charlie always looked up to Bill as his older brother and so he finds people like Bill intriguing. Those are the only things that I can find to match between them. And it would make more sense in terms of what would actually occur in the books since there is no point in introducing the Bill-Fleur romance if it doesn't work out. I'm glad you thought of that Star Crossed cause I never really thought that the Bill-Tonks relationship would happen but I really wanted it to. Now I have one that I like and that is plausible, yay :9 (by the way, the reason I care about a minor character-minor character relationship is because Tonks rocks)
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Rex Jones - Aug 6, 2004 5:24 pm (#1825 of 2916)
I think Ron and Hermione will end up together, but I don't really want to see them go out until the very end of the book, so that we don't have to see them going out on dates. I think that would be kinda awkward. I would just like to see some making out between them, that's about it.
I also have a theory supporting that Ron and Hermione will date, and possibly even marry. In OoTP, in the chapter "Career's Advice", Hermione asks Ron's opinion, and Harry thinks there is a resemblance between them and Mrs. Weasley asking Mr. Weasley's opinion on things. Maybe this suggests that Ron and Hermione will end up married with seven kids(but I hope they won't be as poor as the Weasleys)
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drippan - Aug 6, 2004 6:22 pm (#1826 of 2916)
"will end up married with seven kids(but I hope they won't be as poor as the Weasleys)"
If they have seven kids, they will be!!
The little bugger eating, curtain climbing, rug rats cost alot of money to raise.
But they would have lots of love, just like Arthur and Molly have.
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Aug 6, 2004 10:03 pm (#1827 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
PS:Prof.Jeeves,could you give me the algorithm for the 'Love Calculator' ? I want to check my prospects on that..... -- Crookshanks
I'm not Prof. Jeeves; but I've already given a link to that on this thread. Just type the words "Love Calculator" on the search function for this thread.
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Chris. - Aug 6, 2004 10:09 pm (#1828 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hello all! Back to the debate!
I definately think R/Hr is going to happen. After a re-read of both GF and OP, I don't know why it's not.
I've kind of layed of the Harry front a bit. Ginny would be too "fluffy", Luna too weird, and Hermione...-er- *thinks to self*... with Ron! O.~
I like the idea of Susan Bones. Hmmm... it'll be interesting to see how the relationship, if any, will survive, through studying, the War and Harry still having to spend time with Ron and Hermione. I see Hermione and Susan alike, so maybe Hermy'll be happy that he's gone for a mature female, and not Cho, "the human hosepipe"!
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 6, 2004 10:17 pm (#1829 of 2916)
Hmm... nobody's mentioned Harry and Tonks...
...undoubtedly because it's a silly idea. Tonks is probably way too old for Harry...
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Chris. - Aug 6, 2004 10:23 pm (#1830 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yup, just what I was thinking. But don't worry, I've seen waaaaay weirder ideas, which I won't go into.
Maybe Tonks for Lupin or Charlie.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 6, 2004 11:00 pm (#1831 of 2916)
I've heard of Tonks and Charlie, and I agree that it might work.
Of course, at the moment, Harry and any girl would seem like a silly idea, because Harry has a much bigger fish to fry.
And he's grieving... if he wants to do better than Cho, he'll have to get over his grief before starting a 'ship...
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Magika - Aug 7, 2004 6:39 am (#1832 of 2916)
I agree with you, Rex... It would be kind of awkward if Ron and Hermione started to go on dates. It's always been the Trio, and what if Harry is suddenly dragged on as the fifth wheel on the wagon? This would create not-very-pleasant feelings, I think.
I'm totally into a R/H-ship, but I hope they'll not be "together" until the end of the series. A little snogging'll be enough!
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Green Eyes - Aug 7, 2004 3:36 pm (#1833 of 2916)
Crookshanks...Hermione does not allow Harry to be who he is unless she signs off on it first. She does go to the ministry with him, after she insists that he check things out first. She criticizes his hero complex. Now, Hermione is not stupid and in many instances her reservations are well founded. But she is completely uncomfortable with Harry when he is acting from his heart i.e. the desire to save Sirius. This is the very thing (that Dumbledore tells Harry at the end) that saves him. Harry also has a very difficult time with Hermione when she is like this. They are often at odds because of this. This does not bode well for them outside of friendship. Because IMHO, what Harry will have to do to defeat Voldemort will not be found in a book in the restricted section of the library. She doesn't understand him in this way and she is uncomfortable with it.
Ginny, as of OOTP seems to be a bit of a combination of the other three girls that Harry is interacting with...Cho (Quidditch/long hair), Hermione (level headed,smart), Luna (intuitive/believes in Harry). Hermione and Luna are polar opposites and even JKR says this "Luna is the anti-Hermione." So we have one extreme, Hermione who has alot to offer Harry in terms of her knowledge/smarts and we have the other Luna who believes in things that Harry needs to believe in (the Veil, sees thestrals). But they are both an extreme. Harry needs some of what each has to offer plus some things in common (Quidditch). Ginny can play Quidditch almost as well as Harry. She acknowledges Harry's feelings (possession/talking to Sirius) she doesn't judge why he has these needs and when she offers to help, she is telling him his feelings are important - she validates him. She also bolsters him when she tells him anything is possible. She also seems smart (she is friend and confidant to Hermione) and level-headed but much more willing to take risks. This plus the connection with LV...we shall see!
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The One - Aug 7, 2004 4:10 pm (#1834 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Hmm... nobody's mentioned Harry and Tonks...
...undoubtedly because it's a silly idea. Tonks is probably way too old for Harry...
Paulus Maximus
It is rather hard to suggest anything so strange that no one has done it already. If you want to suggest something weird, you will have to do better then this.... :-)
Steve Newton 6/21/04 11:26am nimrod 2000 6/21/04 2:29pm Denise P. 6/16/04 5:05pm mike miller 6/16/04 9:34am
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 4:38 pm (#1835 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Excellent post Green Eyes!
I have never believed the H/G 'ship would sail (too predictable IMO) until now - it certainly is a possibility! The connection with LV is probably the biggest thing for me; none of the other candidates (Hermy, Susan, Pansy, Luna) have this...well not yet anyway!
About H/Hr:
We all know Harry is not afraid to 'think' with his heart, something Dumbledore has described as special. Hermione thinks with her head and although her intentions are ALWAYS good she does not trust Harry's instincts; she tends to base her decisions/actions on facts. This may well prove to be a problem if H/Hr happened. I'm a huge R/Hr shipper so i'm glad to read another reason why a H/Hr ship is unlikely. Keep them coming
Here's my take on the ships if anyone is interested:
Ship I think JKR is most likely to let sail: Hermione/Ron
Ship I would most like to see: Harry/Susan
EDIT: "what Harry will have to do to defeat Voldemort will not be found in a book in the restricted section of the library" -- Green Eyes
I can't tell you how much that made me laugh!
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The One - Aug 7, 2004 6:53 pm (#1836 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
hermy-own and green eyes.
I do not know if you have a husband/wife/boy friend/girl friend but let’s assume that such a person exist. What would you do if this SO became very upset and emotional and insisted upon some deadly dangerous course of action, for some reason you are convinced are rubbish. Do you think you should tell him/her: "Yes Dear! Whatever your heart tells you. After all, anything is possible as long as you have got the nerve!" And if you do not, should you break up/divorce as soon as possible because you are unable to meet his/hers emotional needs?
Isn't Hermione's course of action the only one possible for any girl smart enough to see the trap? In the end Harry's "instincts" got Sirius killed. Hermione tried to prevent it, and this makes her unsuitable?
I think that the fact that Harry, despite the immense pressure, his extreme anger, and all his fear about Sirius, still are able to compromise and recognise Hermione's "loyalty and solidarity" say something about the strength of their relationship.
what Harry will have to do to defeat Voldemort will not be found in a book in the restricted section of the library
Not all of it, but some of it. Their work in the library was an important part of what helped Harry survive GoF. And Hermione's practial solutions for the DA and the Quibbler interview help Harry very much in keeping his spirits up during OotP.
Harry and Hermione are different, but they complements each other.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 7, 2004 7:43 pm (#1837 of 2916)
My apologies, TheOne, and I stand corrected.
Still, that 'ship has quite a small 'crew compared to the others...
Or perhaps the 'crew is simply quieter than those of the other 'ships...
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mike miller - Aug 7, 2004 8:27 pm (#1838 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Paulus - The Harry and Tonks ship is alive and well!! I may be sailing the ocean alone; but, it fits some of JKR's chat comments. Also, check post #317 on the Tonks thread.
The One - Thanks for the patient use of the search engine. With the rapid increase in Lex members, even searching for previous posts can be a daunting task.
Most of the action on this thread seems to be between the R/Hr and the H/Hr camps. 'Shipping is such a speculative venture since JKR doesn't seem to put much into it. If you exclude Hermione, and I do (Hermione will have red haired children some day when Voldemort is long gone), with the possible exception of Ginny, there is no current student at Hogwarts that we've been introduced to thus far that would make a good match for Harry. After Harry's been a Auror for a couple of years, then the age difference with Tonks won't matter.
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 9:36 pm (#1839 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
The One
No, I certainly would not react in that way and neither am I suggesting that Harry would if he faced such problems in a 'ship with Hermione. Hermione always has Harry's best interests at heart; Harry would not have accomplished anything without her assistance - the potions puzzle in PS/SS, discovering the basilisk in CoS, saving Sirius in PoA are some examples. There are many, many more. H/Hr compliment each other very well but I don't think she understands Harry in a way I expect his coming 'ship to.
This is just my interpretation of things but on reading OotP I noticed that Harry seems more comfortable discussing his feelings to Ginny (and even Luna) than to Ron or Hermione. This does not make Hermione "unsuitable" for a Harry, I never meant to suggest that (sorry if I was ambiguous in my post). It just suggests that someone like Ginny would be more suitable in that respect for Harry. H/Hr compliment each other very well but Ginny adds that extra dimension which I feel Harry would need in his coming 'ship. Come to think of it...I think it was only with Luna that H felt he could talk about Sirius's death (right at the end of OotP). He knew she would understand him and not question why he had those feelings/thoughts.
I love Hermione (you can guess that from my name) but I don't think she would be the right 'ship for Harry. I feel he needs to be with someone with whom he can discuss his problems; someone who would be able to relate to his feelings, as well as someone clever enough to spot the trap and advise Harry accordingly. Green Eyes (and JKR) have convinced me that Ginny fits that bill better than Hermione.
If we find in HBP that H learns to trust Hr to the extent he can talk to her about his deepest troubles then Hermione would be the perfect 'ship for Harry. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 7, 2004 9:43 pm (#1840 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Or perhaps the 'crew is simply quieter than those of the other 'ships... -- Paulus Maximus.
Paulus, 'Ships? I think that should be in singular. The only 'Ship which seems to be louder than us are the R/Hr 'shippers.
Also; seeing the recent messages posted on this thread; I believe we have all said what we wanted to say. Wait a minute; I stand corrected; we have all said what we wanted to say atleast ten times. Has anyone else noticed this? BTW; does this thread have a parmanent status? If not; I see this being deleted in some 2 months time. It'll be a shame. I can see this thread buzzing with excitement when HbP is released. Many R/Hr 'shippers will go into hiding... YAY! I have just said something that hasn't been said before
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Chris. - Aug 7, 2004 9:47 pm (#1841 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I do feel we keep repeating ourselves too. Maybe we could discuss other 'Ships that don't include the Trio.
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 9:48 pm (#1842 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
when HbP is released. Many R/Hr 'shippers will go into hiding... --Tornedo
Well I certainly won't - this forum is simply too good to abandon! There'll just be new theories to draw up for book 7!
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 10:08 pm (#1843 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Maybe we could discuss other 'Ships that don't include the Trio" --Prongs
Yes, we should really.
I was thinking of Snape and a possible 'ship for him. It seems unlikely but certainly would be interesting!
Does anyone think he might have had a thing for the then Lily Evans? We saw her come to Snape's rescue (well, almost!) in Snape's Worst Memory and if this happened often Snape could have become fond of her.
It's a long shot but we do not know much of Snape's (or Lily's past). Could it be another reason why Snape dislikes James Potter so much - for getting Lily.
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Chris. - Aug 7, 2004 10:19 pm (#1844 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
JEREMY PAXMAN: Are we going to discover anything more about Snape ?
JK ROWLING: Yes.
JEREMY PAXMAN: And Harry's mother? Did he have a crush on Harry's mother or unrequited love or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: Hence his animosity to Harry?
JEREMY PAXMAN: Yes.
JK ROWLING: You speculate?
JEREMY PAXMAN: I speculate, yes, I'm just asking whether you can tell us.
JK ROWLING: No I can't tell you. But you do find out a lot more about Snape and quite a lot more about him actually.
If she can't tell us, there must be something there.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 7, 2004 11:57 pm (#1845 of 2916)
Sorry for not having read the whole thread so I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this. But anyone sad that Dumbledore and McGonagall never had a go? Or maybe they did once!
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The One - Aug 8, 2004 1:18 am (#1846 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
hermy-own
H/Hr compliment each other very well but Ginny adds that extra dimension which I feel Harry would need in his coming 'ship.
Somehow i do not feel like this. As already stated, I believe very much that Harry/Hermione. But if I am wrong, Ginny just do not cut it for me. Foor me character is a little boring, a little to perfect, as Harry's girl friend. Luna are my reserves because she is so strange, yet strong, and completely different from Harry's best female friend so far.
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drippan - Aug 8, 2004 3:11 am (#1847 of 2916)
Tornedo, "when HbP is released. Many R/Hr 'shippers will go into hiding..."
The same could be said of H/Hr 'shippers, or H/G 'shippers, or H/L 'shippers, etc., etc,......
I think we talked about how many people would give up on the series if their 'ships didn't happen. I don't think anyone would and most would admit their mistakes.
BTW, would that be your reaction if H/Hr didn't work out? Most people think about other people's reactions on the way they would react.
DripPan
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ShelterGirl - Aug 8, 2004 9:21 am (#1848 of 2916)
DripPan-
Is that saying of yours a paraphrase of the line in Steel Magnolias?
"You are evil, and must be destroyed?"
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Star Crossed - Aug 8, 2004 10:03 am (#1849 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Sorry for not having read the whole thread so I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this. But anyone sad that Dumbledore and McGonagall never had a go? Or maybe they did once!
If they had 'a go' at it, I would be twitching for days. There is about a hundred years' difference between the two. I'm sorry, but that is way too many years for me.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 8, 2004 12:24 pm (#1850 of 2916)
I think we talked about how many people would give up on the series if their 'ships didn't happen. I don't think anyone would and most would admit their mistakes.
Honestly, while it's fun to talk about who will be dating whom, in the basic scheme of things, I really couldn't care less. It's more of a condiment to the big cheeseburger, and without it, the cheeseburger is just fine.
If my preferences don't work out, big fat hairy deal as Garfield would say. When I think of the series, I think more about who is going to live, who is going to be a traitor from either side, what is going to happen to Grimmauld Place, what will happen with the Dursleys, will Umbridge ever be punished, etc. The relationships are about ten percent of what I like about the books, although the discussion Marcus started about Harry and Pansy is fascinating. More because it's a discussion of what has happened in the books than the actual possibilty itself.
If I'm wrong about Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny, it won't affect my life any more than cheering for the losing team during a sporting event does. There's always next year's Stanley Cup, Super Bowl, World Series, or whatever, and there's always other favorite authors whose books I truly enjoy after this series is completed. JKR's writing is so rich and compelling that there are many facets of the books that intrigue me much more than the characters' love lives.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
James T. Kirk:- I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Ron and Hermione are made for each other, I see them married with about six kids, three boys, three girls
What, by the end of book 7?
Of course not, dear, by the end of HBP. After all, where else will we get the HBP?
Weasley by nature,
I've pondered Bill/Tonks, but I think Charlie/Tonks would be more suitable. I can't put my finger on why, but I just think Charlie is more like her.
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Kasse - Aug 4, 2004 3:47 pm (#1802 of 2916)
I agree with Star Crossed, I would prefer a Charlie/Tonks (or to be truthful even a Snape/Tonks but I know I will not have many supporters in that area)
I am pretty sure that Bill/Fleur is already set in stone
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Magika - Aug 4, 2004 4:41 pm (#1803 of 2916)
Timrew, I thought you very middle-aged, not ancient?
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timrew - Aug 4, 2004 5:02 pm (#1804 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Okay, I'm not 204. I just feel it some days!
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Catherine - Aug 4, 2004 5:46 pm (#1805 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tim,
I think that if you WERE a 'Tween, you would change the world for the funnier. And you still can, because we are separated by a continent, and I laugh out loud, which I almost NEVER DO, except when you write something.
Cheers to the King of Spew...
--Catherine
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Upulwan - Aug 4, 2004 6:40 pm (#1806 of 2916)
Magika said at 2 in the morning coupla days ago,
"Has anyone ever thought of the possibility that Ron might be choosing to be overshadowed? He's grown up to be overshadowed, he doesn't know how it is to be the best. Maybe he feels safe by not being the best. I know he complains and all that, but as I always attract weird boys, maybe Ron attracts people that overshadows him?
That's why I think Hermione would be a better fit for him - simply because all of his closest overshadows him. Why should his girlriend be any different?"
Magika, that certainly is an interesting possibility,(specially since you thought it up at 2 a.m
) although one that dooms him to a really miserable lifetime ahead... he may unitentionally 'attract' people who overshadow him, and he may even feel comfortable that way, but at a certain level it'll always eat at him and he might spend half his life wishing he was different. I also think his 'second-best' mindset is slowly changing. In Phoenix we see him going off to fight his own battles: signing up for Quidditch is a start isn't it? And in the one great instance of Ron's personal triumph in the whole canon (i.e the last Quidditch match) he is on his own, his two great 'overshadowers' having gone to visit Grawp. I think that's a taste of what's to come, Ron coming into his own...
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Upulwan - Aug 4, 2004 6:45 pm (#1807 of 2916)
I've asked this elsewhere, and it's probably been discussed too though I missed it, but in Chapter 14 of Phoenix (Percy and Padfoot), after Ron's chucked Percy's sermon into the fire, Hermione looks at him with an 'odd expression' on her face... What do you think it is? (ple...ase don't say 'lurrrve', all you R/Hr's, could have figured that out myself except I think there's more to it and don't know what
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 8:32 pm (#1808 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
That expression was probably Pity. BTW; Hermione's looked at Harry with an 'odd expression' plenty of times.
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Star Crossed - Aug 4, 2004 8:33 pm (#1809 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it's realization, that Percy really isn't the perfect guy. The two always got along well, except for their spat in GoF. Personally, I think she looked up to him. He was prefect, head boy, great grades, got high up in the MoM fast. I think that letter made her realise something big. Something like people with the best grades weren't perfect.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 9:17 pm (#1810 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I think the Star is right there.
Edit: Wow, I just agreed with Aly on the 'Shipping thread.
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Hermione Weasley - Aug 4, 2004 9:24 pm (#1811 of 2916)
I know this is off thread but as we are talking about Percy right now I wonder if Fred and George ever jinxed one of his badges to read Percy is a Prat!
(I personally think Percy's just confused...by the way, whatever happened to Penelope?) - - - - - - - - - -
Chris. - Aug 4, 2004 9:47 pm (#1812 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I have been lurking here for days now! But I return.
I seem to remember someone, who I think was Tornedo, said Hermione wouldn't die because she hasn't done anything wrong, but Ron deserves to die. On what grounds?
Personally, I'm still sailing on the Ron/Hermione 'ship. As for Harry, it's a tough one. It's between Susan Bones and Ginny Weasley.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 9:58 pm (#1813 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I seem to remember someone, who I think was Tornedo, said Hermione wouldn't die because she hasn't done anything wrong, but Ron deserves to die. On what grounds? -- Prongs
Prongs, read my posts on Ron Weasley thread for the last 4 days. That'll tell you why.
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Chris. - Aug 4, 2004 10:14 pm (#1814 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Just read Tornedo's posts on the "Ron Weasley" thread.
You said on one occasion that Hermione qualified to be a saint. Yes, she's your favourite character, but she is definately not a saint. Ron had an argument with Harry over the TWT but they made up, and Harry has forgave Ron. Why can't we, eh?
And now to another 'ship.... Dumbledore and Madam Pomfrey! This is not a joke. I personally think there's a connection between them two.
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drippan - Aug 5, 2004 4:01 am (#1815 of 2916)
Hey Prongs and Tornedo,
The "Ron thing" needs to be kept on the Ron thread. We've posted alot over there and if we start doing it here, people won't get the whole picture or the same arguments will be repeated twice.
BTW, there is a big difference in saying "who is JKR going to kill off" and saying you think "someone deserves to die". This sounds like you need to visit a psychiatrist to work out your "hatred" issues. IMO, no one deserves to die, but death is a part of life an must be accepted as just that.
Just my opinion,
DripPan
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Star Crossed - Aug 5, 2004 6:23 am (#1816 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Aug 5, 2004 6:24 am
I think the Star is right there.
Edit: Wow, I just agreed with Aly on the 'Shipping thread.
Golly Marie, the stars have aligned. And now I'm sort of mad at you. (EDIT: Not really.
) I always actually pictured us as Hermione and Percy arguing about Winky. We could be great friends if we never mentioned "Winky". Anyways... This Dumbledore/Poppy thing. It scares me. I guess it's possible, they act like blasted teens. With Dumbledore's earmuff comment, and the way she always gives into him (True, he's ranked high above her), it all seems so teenagerish. It's sort of cute.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 5, 2004 7:30 am (#1817 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I always actually pictured us as Hermione and Percy arguing about Winky. -- Star Crossed
Aly; are you comparing me with Percy? Now I'm really mad at you. You are sooo EVIL. (DripPan; you have really addicted me into saying that to anyone and everyone.)
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Green Eyes - Aug 5, 2004 8:10 am (#1818 of 2916)
I'm not sure I understand the discussion about Ron being overshadowed. Yes, as the youngest of six brothers, he has to rise up and prove himself and perhaps HE feels overshadowed. But Ron, kind of like Ginny is on the rise in book 5. He starts out shaky on the Quidditch field but finally gains his confidence. He is made prefect and Harry thinks to himself "he must have something I don't."
His ability to go at it with Hermione shows that he will not allow her to "dominate" him the way that she tends to do. The fact that she sees him as "having the emotional range of a teaspoon" does not mean that it is so. A case can be made that Hermione's emotional range isn't great either. She is so convinced of her intellectual superiority that she sometimes overlooks other aspects of the human psyche that cannot be explained in a book. I think she will learn this. They are all growing up. I also don't think Ron will die...children in fairy tales usually do pretty well. They may have a hard road, but they survive...that's the whole point of the story.
Luna, as of book five, is functioning as a character through who Harry learns about himself. He also has feelings of pity towards her, not yet even feelings of friendship. She is Loony...alot of people think Harry is loony in OOTP too. How does he treat someone who is loony in light of this fact? He treats her kindly. The same way he treats Neville and Ginny too. He knows Ginny has a crush, yet he never teases or is cruel to her about it. Dobby gets similar treatment. I don't see Luna in a romantic situation with any of the main characters...although the names Luna and Neville Longbottom have nice alliteration ...all those "L's"
This of course is just pure speculation. But look how it is actually printed in the US version of OOTP when Ginny introduces them on the train...Luna Lovegood - Neville Longbottom. Their names are connected by a dash which suggested a connection. Who knows?! - - - - - - - - - -
Crookshanks - Aug 5, 2004 9:50 am (#1819 of 2916)
Hi all,seems too much of activity over the last week here !
Green Eyes - If Harry is going to have a 'ship by the end of the series...and I'll bet he will...it will have to be with someone who is strong enough to allow him to be who he is
What do you think Hermione does towards the end of OotP ? Allow him to act as he feels right though she quite knows he's wrong. And she loyally stands by him too.I don't see many occasions where Harry has not allowed to be who he is as the books are progressing.She seems to understand Harry better than probably himself.
Kasse - Do you guys see that if Ron dies (thus in many peoples oppinion clearing a path for the H/Hr ship) what that would do to Harry? Do not forget that the thing Harry would have missed most for the second task was Ron. Also even when him and Ron were not speaking he misses Ron stating something to the extent of it is not as much fun with just Hermione around didn't he? Correct me if I am wrong.
I'd proposed an argument for this on 'Who dies in Books 6/7' thread,which wasn't hooted at.We can expect Harry to kill Voldie,not may be by using AK,but by that force which Voldie desists - emotions.Next to Sirius,I think the closest to Harry is Ron & it's probably only his death that can help him 'open' up all emotions,just as Harry 'used Sirius' to get rid of Voldie,the snake.(I prefer a R/Hr ending to Ron's death though). With respect to part 2 of your statement,trends seemed to change in OotP, and BTW,who's the girl Harry likes most ?
There're issues like Harry & Hermione act like siblings etc...But,intense fighting is such an indispensable part of siblinghood & it certainly doesn't seem so intense between Harry & Hermione.Tell me,how many of you don't fight tooth & nail with your siblings.Tracie is right in comparing Ron & Hermione to her children.My sister(cousin,but a week older to me & closer to me than my own sister,who is a decade younger to me) always fights with me over practically any issue pretty much like what Hermione does with Ron.That's one reason both of us support anything but the R/Hr 'ship,because we see so much of ourselves in that.I was so jealous of her first date that I made holes in her new dress just before she was supposed to wear it & leave,and we always have a fight over that idiot of a guy.(Sorry if it's boring to read this).With our personal situations like these,both of us are open to anything but R/Hr.
On the other hand, H/Hr isn't very concrete now,so I'm still not sailing any 'ship other than Dobby/Winky.
As for Harry,personally I feel Hermione is best suited,just as he is for her.Ginny & Luna have pretty much the same rating with respect to Harry.Pansy & Susan have work to do to stay in contention.
PS:Prof.Jeeves,could you give me the algorithm for the 'Love Calculator' ? I want to check my prospects on that.....
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drippan - Aug 5, 2004 9:59 am (#1820 of 2916)
Tornedo, "You are sooo EVIL. (DripPan; you have really addicted me into saying that to anyone and everyone.)"
The actual saying is:
"You are Evil, therefore, you must be killed".
I say this in joking. I use it when something is near and dear to my heart. It would be like someone saying "Harry Potter is going to be a Death Eater!". "They are Evil, therefore,..........."
S.E. deleted the remainder. Even though it is meant as a joke, she felt that it could be taken as a threat.
Hopefully, it'll stay in this time........PLEASE!
DripPan
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Padfoot - Aug 5, 2004 10:46 am (#1821 of 2916)
Slightly off topic here, but I was reading one of the Narnia books last night and thought of the R/H 'ship. It was the very end of The Horse and His Boy where the character's future lives were summed up. The main two characters (Shasta/Cor and Aravis) were said to be always fighting and then making up. They eventually got married to make their fighting more convenient (Can't remember the exact quote). But anyway, I thought of R/H and see that being included in the last chapter of book 7.
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Alianora - Aug 5, 2004 2:34 pm (#1822 of 2916)
I love that line Padfoot, I always crack up when I read the end of that book! I bet Rowling could make it even funnier.
Personally, I'm Ron/Hermione, just because it seems obvious to me, and Rowling has said it, but hey, we'll know in due time so arguing doesn't seem much use to me. But, carry on! : D
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Star Crossed - Aug 5, 2004 5:42 pm (#1823 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Padfoot, I read that book after I read the HP series, and I actually had to look back at the names to make sure Ron and Hermione's names weren't written.
Aly; are you comparing me with Percy? Now I'm really mad at you. You are sooo EVIL. (DripPan; you have really addicted me into saying that to anyone and everyone.)
Of course not, dear, I actually never figured out who either of us would be. I'll get back to you on it. Mwah.
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weasley by nature - Aug 6, 2004 3:48 am (#1824 of 2916)
Yea I guess Charlie and Tonks would be cool too. Tonks is an Auror and Charlie is a dragon tamer(is that what he's called?) so they also both have adventurous career choices. And maybe Charlie always looked up to Bill as his older brother and so he finds people like Bill intriguing. Those are the only things that I can find to match between them. And it would make more sense in terms of what would actually occur in the books since there is no point in introducing the Bill-Fleur romance if it doesn't work out. I'm glad you thought of that Star Crossed cause I never really thought that the Bill-Tonks relationship would happen but I really wanted it to. Now I have one that I like and that is plausible, yay :9 (by the way, the reason I care about a minor character-minor character relationship is because Tonks rocks)
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Rex Jones - Aug 6, 2004 5:24 pm (#1825 of 2916)
I think Ron and Hermione will end up together, but I don't really want to see them go out until the very end of the book, so that we don't have to see them going out on dates. I think that would be kinda awkward. I would just like to see some making out between them, that's about it.
I also have a theory supporting that Ron and Hermione will date, and possibly even marry. In OoTP, in the chapter "Career's Advice", Hermione asks Ron's opinion, and Harry thinks there is a resemblance between them and Mrs. Weasley asking Mr. Weasley's opinion on things. Maybe this suggests that Ron and Hermione will end up married with seven kids(but I hope they won't be as poor as the Weasleys)
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drippan - Aug 6, 2004 6:22 pm (#1826 of 2916)
"will end up married with seven kids(but I hope they won't be as poor as the Weasleys)
" If they have seven kids, they will be!!
The little bugger eating, curtain climbing, rug rats cost alot of money to raise.
But they would have lots of love, just like Arthur and Molly have.
DripPan
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Sir Tornado - Aug 6, 2004 10:03 pm (#1827 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
PS:Prof.Jeeves,could you give me the algorithm for the 'Love Calculator' ? I want to check my prospects on that..... -- Crookshanks
I'm not Prof. Jeeves; but I've already given a link to that on this thread. Just type the words "Love Calculator" on the search function for this thread.
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Chris. - Aug 6, 2004 10:09 pm (#1828 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hello all! Back to the debate!
I definately think R/Hr is going to happen. After a re-read of both GF and OP, I don't know why it's not.
I've kind of layed of the Harry front a bit. Ginny would be too "fluffy", Luna too weird, and Hermione...-er- *thinks to self*... with Ron! O.~
I like the idea of Susan Bones. Hmmm... it'll be interesting to see how the relationship, if any, will survive, through studying, the War and Harry still having to spend time with Ron and Hermione. I see Hermione and Susan alike, so maybe Hermy'll be happy that he's gone for a mature female, and not Cho, "the human hosepipe"!
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 6, 2004 10:17 pm (#1829 of 2916)
Hmm... nobody's mentioned Harry and Tonks...
...undoubtedly because it's a silly idea. Tonks is probably way too old for Harry...
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Chris. - Aug 6, 2004 10:23 pm (#1830 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yup, just what I was thinking. But don't worry, I've seen waaaaay weirder ideas, which I won't go into.
Maybe Tonks for Lupin or Charlie.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 6, 2004 11:00 pm (#1831 of 2916)
I've heard of Tonks and Charlie, and I agree that it might work.
Of course, at the moment, Harry and any girl would seem like a silly idea, because Harry has a much bigger fish to fry.
And he's grieving... if he wants to do better than Cho, he'll have to get over his grief before starting a 'ship...
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Magika - Aug 7, 2004 6:39 am (#1832 of 2916)
I agree with you, Rex... It would be kind of awkward if Ron and Hermione started to go on dates. It's always been the Trio, and what if Harry is suddenly dragged on as the fifth wheel on the wagon? This would create not-very-pleasant feelings, I think.
I'm totally into a R/H-ship, but I hope they'll not be "together" until the end of the series. A little snogging'll be enough!
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Green Eyes - Aug 7, 2004 3:36 pm (#1833 of 2916)
Crookshanks...Hermione does not allow Harry to be who he is unless she signs off on it first. She does go to the ministry with him, after she insists that he check things out first. She criticizes his hero complex. Now, Hermione is not stupid and in many instances her reservations are well founded. But she is completely uncomfortable with Harry when he is acting from his heart i.e. the desire to save Sirius. This is the very thing (that Dumbledore tells Harry at the end) that saves him. Harry also has a very difficult time with Hermione when she is like this. They are often at odds because of this. This does not bode well for them outside of friendship. Because IMHO, what Harry will have to do to defeat Voldemort will not be found in a book in the restricted section of the library. She doesn't understand him in this way and she is uncomfortable with it.
Ginny, as of OOTP seems to be a bit of a combination of the other three girls that Harry is interacting with...Cho (Quidditch/long hair), Hermione (level headed,smart), Luna (intuitive/believes in Harry). Hermione and Luna are polar opposites and even JKR says this "Luna is the anti-Hermione." So we have one extreme, Hermione who has alot to offer Harry in terms of her knowledge/smarts and we have the other Luna who believes in things that Harry needs to believe in (the Veil, sees thestrals). But they are both an extreme. Harry needs some of what each has to offer plus some things in common (Quidditch). Ginny can play Quidditch almost as well as Harry. She acknowledges Harry's feelings (possession/talking to Sirius) she doesn't judge why he has these needs and when she offers to help, she is telling him his feelings are important - she validates him. She also bolsters him when she tells him anything is possible. She also seems smart (she is friend and confidant to Hermione) and level-headed but much more willing to take risks. This plus the connection with LV...we shall see!
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The One - Aug 7, 2004 4:10 pm (#1834 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Hmm... nobody's mentioned Harry and Tonks...
...undoubtedly because it's a silly idea. Tonks is probably way too old for Harry...
Paulus Maximus
It is rather hard to suggest anything so strange that no one has done it already. If you want to suggest something weird, you will have to do better then this.... :-)
Steve Newton 6/21/04 11:26am nimrod 2000 6/21/04 2:29pm Denise P. 6/16/04 5:05pm mike miller 6/16/04 9:34am
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 4:38 pm (#1835 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Excellent post Green Eyes!
I have never believed the H/G 'ship would sail (too predictable IMO) until now - it certainly is a possibility! The connection with LV is probably the biggest thing for me; none of the other candidates (Hermy, Susan, Pansy, Luna) have this...well not yet anyway!
About H/Hr:
We all know Harry is not afraid to 'think' with his heart, something Dumbledore has described as special. Hermione thinks with her head and although her intentions are ALWAYS good she does not trust Harry's instincts; she tends to base her decisions/actions on facts. This may well prove to be a problem if H/Hr happened. I'm a huge R/Hr shipper so i'm glad to read another reason why a H/Hr ship is unlikely. Keep them coming
Here's my take on the ships if anyone is interested:
Ship I think JKR is most likely to let sail: Hermione/Ron
Ship I would most like to see: Harry/Susan
EDIT: "what Harry will have to do to defeat Voldemort will not be found in a book in the restricted section of the library" -- Green Eyes
I can't tell you how much that made me laugh!
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The One - Aug 7, 2004 6:53 pm (#1836 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
hermy-own and green eyes.
I do not know if you have a husband/wife/boy friend/girl friend but let’s assume that such a person exist. What would you do if this SO became very upset and emotional and insisted upon some deadly dangerous course of action, for some reason you are convinced are rubbish. Do you think you should tell him/her: "Yes Dear! Whatever your heart tells you. After all, anything is possible as long as you have got the nerve!" And if you do not, should you break up/divorce as soon as possible because you are unable to meet his/hers emotional needs?
Isn't Hermione's course of action the only one possible for any girl smart enough to see the trap? In the end Harry's "instincts" got Sirius killed. Hermione tried to prevent it, and this makes her unsuitable?
I think that the fact that Harry, despite the immense pressure, his extreme anger, and all his fear about Sirius, still are able to compromise and recognise Hermione's "loyalty and solidarity" say something about the strength of their relationship.
what Harry will have to do to defeat Voldemort will not be found in a book in the restricted section of the library
Not all of it, but some of it. Their work in the library was an important part of what helped Harry survive GoF. And Hermione's practial solutions for the DA and the Quibbler interview help Harry very much in keeping his spirits up during OotP.
Harry and Hermione are different, but they complements each other.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 7, 2004 7:43 pm (#1837 of 2916)
My apologies, TheOne, and I stand corrected.
Still, that 'ship has quite a small 'crew compared to the others...
Or perhaps the 'crew is simply quieter than those of the other 'ships...
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mike miller - Aug 7, 2004 8:27 pm (#1838 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Paulus - The Harry and Tonks ship is alive and well!! I may be sailing the ocean alone; but, it fits some of JKR's chat comments. Also, check post #317 on the Tonks thread.
The One - Thanks for the patient use of the search engine. With the rapid increase in Lex members, even searching for previous posts can be a daunting task.
Most of the action on this thread seems to be between the R/Hr and the H/Hr camps. 'Shipping is such a speculative venture since JKR doesn't seem to put much into it. If you exclude Hermione, and I do (Hermione will have red haired children some day when Voldemort is long gone), with the possible exception of Ginny, there is no current student at Hogwarts that we've been introduced to thus far that would make a good match for Harry. After Harry's been a Auror for a couple of years, then the age difference with Tonks won't matter.
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 9:36 pm (#1839 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
The One
No, I certainly would not react in that way and neither am I suggesting that Harry would if he faced such problems in a 'ship with Hermione. Hermione always has Harry's best interests at heart; Harry would not have accomplished anything without her assistance - the potions puzzle in PS/SS, discovering the basilisk in CoS, saving Sirius in PoA are some examples. There are many, many more. H/Hr compliment each other very well but I don't think she understands Harry in a way I expect his coming 'ship to.
This is just my interpretation of things but on reading OotP I noticed that Harry seems more comfortable discussing his feelings to Ginny (and even Luna) than to Ron or Hermione. This does not make Hermione "unsuitable" for a Harry, I never meant to suggest that (sorry if I was ambiguous in my post). It just suggests that someone like Ginny would be more suitable in that respect for Harry. H/Hr compliment each other very well but Ginny adds that extra dimension which I feel Harry would need in his coming 'ship. Come to think of it...I think it was only with Luna that H felt he could talk about Sirius's death (right at the end of OotP). He knew she would understand him and not question why he had those feelings/thoughts.
I love Hermione (you can guess that from my name) but I don't think she would be the right 'ship for Harry. I feel he needs to be with someone with whom he can discuss his problems; someone who would be able to relate to his feelings, as well as someone clever enough to spot the trap and advise Harry accordingly. Green Eyes (and JKR) have convinced me that Ginny fits that bill better than Hermione.
If we find in HBP that H learns to trust Hr to the extent he can talk to her about his deepest troubles then Hermione would be the perfect 'ship for Harry. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 7, 2004 9:43 pm (#1840 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Or perhaps the 'crew is simply quieter than those of the other 'ships... -- Paulus Maximus.
Paulus, 'Ships? I think that should be in singular. The only 'Ship which seems to be louder than us are the R/Hr 'shippers.
Also; seeing the recent messages posted on this thread; I believe we have all said what we wanted to say. Wait a minute; I stand corrected; we have all said what we wanted to say atleast ten times. Has anyone else noticed this? BTW; does this thread have a parmanent status? If not; I see this being deleted in some 2 months time. It'll be a shame. I can see this thread buzzing with excitement when HbP is released. Many R/Hr 'shippers will go into hiding... YAY! I have just said something that hasn't been said before
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Chris. - Aug 7, 2004 9:47 pm (#1841 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I do feel we keep repeating ourselves too. Maybe we could discuss other 'Ships that don't include the Trio.
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 9:48 pm (#1842 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
when HbP is released. Many R/Hr 'shippers will go into hiding... --Tornedo
Well I certainly won't - this forum is simply too good to abandon! There'll just be new theories to draw up for book 7!
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Hermy-own - Aug 7, 2004 10:08 pm (#1843 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Maybe we could discuss other 'Ships that don't include the Trio" --Prongs
Yes, we should really.
I was thinking of Snape and a possible 'ship for him. It seems unlikely but certainly would be interesting!
Does anyone think he might have had a thing for the then Lily Evans? We saw her come to Snape's rescue (well, almost!) in Snape's Worst Memory and if this happened often Snape could have become fond of her.
It's a long shot but we do not know much of Snape's (or Lily's past). Could it be another reason why Snape dislikes James Potter so much - for getting Lily.
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Chris. - Aug 7, 2004 10:19 pm (#1844 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
JEREMY PAXMAN: Are we going to discover anything more about Snape ?
JK ROWLING: Yes.
JEREMY PAXMAN: And Harry's mother? Did he have a crush on Harry's mother or unrequited love or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: Hence his animosity to Harry?
JEREMY PAXMAN: Yes.
JK ROWLING: You speculate?
JEREMY PAXMAN: I speculate, yes, I'm just asking whether you can tell us.
JK ROWLING: No I can't tell you. But you do find out a lot more about Snape and quite a lot more about him actually.
If she can't tell us, there must be something there.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 7, 2004 11:57 pm (#1845 of 2916)
Sorry for not having read the whole thread so I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this. But anyone sad that Dumbledore and McGonagall never had a go? Or maybe they did once!
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The One - Aug 8, 2004 1:18 am (#1846 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
hermy-own
H/Hr compliment each other very well but Ginny adds that extra dimension which I feel Harry would need in his coming 'ship.
Somehow i do not feel like this. As already stated, I believe very much that Harry/Hermione. But if I am wrong, Ginny just do not cut it for me. Foor me character is a little boring, a little to perfect, as Harry's girl friend. Luna are my reserves because she is so strange, yet strong, and completely different from Harry's best female friend so far.
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drippan - Aug 8, 2004 3:11 am (#1847 of 2916)
Tornedo, "when HbP is released. Many R/Hr 'shippers will go into hiding..."
The same could be said of H/Hr 'shippers, or H/G 'shippers, or H/L 'shippers, etc., etc,......
I think we talked about how many people would give up on the series if their 'ships didn't happen. I don't think anyone would and most would admit their mistakes.
BTW, would that be your reaction if H/Hr didn't work out? Most people think about other people's reactions on the way they would react.
DripPan
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ShelterGirl - Aug 8, 2004 9:21 am (#1848 of 2916)
DripPan-
Is that saying of yours a paraphrase of the line in Steel Magnolias?
"You are evil, and must be destroyed?"
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Star Crossed - Aug 8, 2004 10:03 am (#1849 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Sorry for not having read the whole thread so I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this. But anyone sad that Dumbledore and McGonagall never had a go? Or maybe they did once!
If they had 'a go' at it, I would be twitching for days. There is about a hundred years' difference between the two. I'm sorry, but that is way too many years for me.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 8, 2004 12:24 pm (#1850 of 2916)
I think we talked about how many people would give up on the series if their 'ships didn't happen. I don't think anyone would and most would admit their mistakes.
Honestly, while it's fun to talk about who will be dating whom, in the basic scheme of things, I really couldn't care less. It's more of a condiment to the big cheeseburger, and without it, the cheeseburger is just fine.
If my preferences don't work out, big fat hairy deal as Garfield would say. When I think of the series, I think more about who is going to live, who is going to be a traitor from either side, what is going to happen to Grimmauld Place, what will happen with the Dursleys, will Umbridge ever be punished, etc. The relationships are about ten percent of what I like about the books, although the discussion Marcus started about Harry and Pansy is fascinating. More because it's a discussion of what has happened in the books than the actual possibilty itself.
If I'm wrong about Ron and Hermione and Harry and Ginny, it won't affect my life any more than cheering for the losing team during a sporting event does. There's always next year's Stanley Cup, Super Bowl, World Series, or whatever, and there's always other favorite authors whose books I truly enjoy after this series is completed. JKR's writing is so rich and compelling that there are many facets of the books that intrigue me much more than the characters' love lives.
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Catherine - Aug 8, 2004 2:43 pm (#1851 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Honestly, while it's fun to talk about who will be dating whom, in the basic scheme of things, I really couldn't care less. It's more of a condiment to the big cheeseburger, and without it, the cheeseburger is just fine.--Weeny Owl
Ah, yes, the Harry Potter series is "Cheeseburger in Paradise!"
My plate would be more complete if HBP would hurry up and get here!
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drippan - Aug 8, 2004 3:55 pm (#1852 of 2916)
ShelterGirl, "Is that saying of yours a paraphrase of the line in Steel Magnolias?" "You are evil, and must be destroyed?"
Seen the movie once with my wife. I don't think it came from there. It's a chick flick!!
As a matter of fact, I only remember it because Julia Roberts was in it!!
Hey Weeny, I'm the same way. I can care less about who 'ships with who as long as JKR explains it or we see how it came about. Like, I would hate to see Draco and Ginny all of a sudden together for no reason.
DripPan
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TomProffitt - Aug 8, 2004 4:09 pm (#1853 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Before OP I was Harry/Cho 'shipper.
After OP I realized Jo has put a lot more thought into her characters, the way teenagers grow and change, and how all this fits into real life than I have.
The only 'ship that would disappoint me would be a 'ship (even if it's my preferred Harry/Ginny 'ship) that sails without Jo's usual thoughtful planning and well written interactions.
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Maarcus Humill - Aug 8, 2004 6:33 pm (#1854 of 2916)
I think, that in the end for Harry, it's either Hermione or nobody. In the END. Everybody likes Harry and would date him because he is "The Boy Who Lived"> Hermone is the only person who knows just harry and holds him to that. She is driends with just Harry Potter, and she would still be even if he wasnt "The Boy Who Lived". Nobody knows him like she does.
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Veritaserum - Aug 8, 2004 7:11 pm (#1855 of 2916)
Go Jays!
Which is exactly why Harry's just gonna be a bachelor, because Hermione and Ron are in love.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 8, 2004 8:08 pm (#1856 of 2916)
Hey Weeny, I'm the same way. I can care less about who 'ships with who as long as JKR explains it or we see how it came about. Like, I would hate to see Draco and Ginny all of a sudden together for no reason.
Exactly, drippan! However she explains the relationships, if we can follow her reasoning, then regardless of the outcome, I'll be happy. I would hate to see Draco with anyone except a dementor, to be perfectly honest.
Catherine: Jimmy Buffet is pleased. Wonder if he likes the Harry Potter books.
Edit: I did a search on the Internet Movie Database and found this: Ouiser Boudreaux: You are evil, and you must be destroyed. That's from "Steel Magnolias," 1989.
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penguin patronus - Aug 8, 2004 8:42 pm (#1857 of 2916)
"The map never lies!"
J.K. said that Harry will be busy in the sixth book, but he'll still have time for romance. Who do you think he'll fall for next? My sister and I think it might be a slytherin girl.
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Hermy-own - Aug 8, 2004 9:07 pm (#1858 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
My sister and I think it might be a slytherin girl. --penguin patronus
You might want to check out Marcus's theory on the 'Harry's ship uniting the houses' thread. He's given a good case for a Harry/Pansy 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 8, 2004 9:12 pm (#1859 of 2916)
As far as we know, Harry has never seen the Slytherins as a whole as anything other than an unpleasant lot. It doesn't stop him from seeing individual Slytherins as anything other than unpleasant, but as far as we know, Harry hasn't done that either.
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Hermy-own - Aug 8, 2004 9:33 pm (#1860 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Thanks Prongs for finding that interview! Yep, it seems as though Snape is hiding one or two secrets!
I wonder whether JKR would set up our dear Severus with one of the teachers (Prof Sinastra perhaps?) just to show us he does have a soft side. It would certainly go a long way in convincing us Snape has genuinely left the dark side.
EDIT: but knowing JKR she probably wouldn't want us to know for sure that Snape has completely turned good; it would make for much more interesting reading if we didn't completely trust him.
EDIT EDIT: someone correct me if i'm wrong but prof sinastra is the astronomy teacher at Hogwarts and is female.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: this discussion runs the risk of being moved to the 'Severus Snape' thread but as long as a direct reference is made to his 'ship in each post we should be ok here
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 8, 2004 10:31 pm (#1861 of 2916)
If they had 'a go' at it, I would be twitching for days. There is about a hundred years' difference between the two. I'm sorry, but that is way too many years for me.
According to Lexicon McGonagall was approx 70 when Dumbledore was approx 150. That's a lot of years but it's the equivalent of a 60 year old dating a 28 year old or a 50 year old dating a 23 year old or a 40 year old dating a 18-19year old. Hey if Nicolas Cage can do it!
Sir Tornado - Aug 9, 2004 3:38 am (#1862 of 2916)[/b]
Rebel without a cause.
I think we talked about how many people would give up on the series if their 'ships didn't happen. I don't think anyone would and most would admit their mistakes.
BTW, would that be your reaction if H/Hr didn't work out? Most people think about other people's reactions on the way they would react. -- drippan.
Well, I certainly won't give up on the series if my 'ship didn't happen. I don't read the books only for Romance stories. HP is one of the most complete book ever written. It has a bit of romance, some adventures, some mysteries, some humour, and a LOT of magic. And it's central theme BTW is the fight between Good and Evil; not between H/Hr and R/Hr 'shippers, so atleast I wouldn't give up reading HP if there isn't a H/Hr 'ship. Would I admit my mistakes? No, I wouldn't. Why? Because I'm NEVER mistaken. Please note, I haven't said that there is absolutely no chance at all for a R/Hr 'ship. All I have said is that there will be a H/Hr 'ship. Please note another thing; I can never be wrong on saying this. Is it mentioned any where that a 'ship has to be romantic? It isn't. And speaking in that context, I can't be wrong in any of my assumtions; because I've only said that there'll be a H/Hr 'ship, I have NEVER said there is going to be a romantic H/Hr 'ship. That's some thing everyone takes for granted, but IMHO, nothing should be taken for granted unless it's in Black and White and signed.Would I be disappointed? Yes. Would I be wrong? No.
How would I react? I can assure you I won't react badly. As a Liverpool supporter, I have a habit on being on the losing side. There's always the next season isn't there? Liverpool fans have been saying that since 1989 when they won the league the last time. If it isn't romantic H/Hr 'ship; then there's always a possibility of JKR writing a new series sometime in future isn't there? I'll be waiting and hoping then. Or, there's always books comming from other authors which are good enough to be read.
Which is exactly why Harry's just gonna be a bachelor, because Hermione and Ron are in love. -- Veritaserum
Old assumtion again? Here's the old argument. There's no canon evidence that Hermione likes Ron. And Ron may only have a crush on Hermione which; as many poined out, isn't love.
Now, Let me see. Here's a prediction. Atleast one of you'll quote that remark Hermione says about Ron being tactless to Harry after explaining Cho's behaviour and many will point out Hermione's alleged jealousy towards Fleur. And some H/Hr 'shipper will try to shove aside those arguments saying something about misinterpretations. See? I told you I know all the arguments on this thread by heart.
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drippan - Aug 9, 2004 4:16 am (#1863 of 2916)
Tornedo, "because I've only said that there'll be a H/Hr 'ship, I have NEVER said there is going to be a romantic H/Hr 'ship. "
In that case, H/Hr have been 'shipping since the first book. They have a relationship now, it's called friendship!
Anyone disagree with that?
DripPan
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 7:09 am (#1864 of 2916)
Tornedo you really made me laugh fist thing on a Monday morning. I have to agree with Drip Pan and say if you were indeed meaning a non romantic ship then everyone has been shipping through these past five books. I thought we were strictly talking about romance on this thread not platonic friendship.
I do not see any fans not continuing to read the series just because their ship does not happen. To agree with Tornedo, there so much more to the story than ships. If I am wrong and my beloved R/Hr (romantic) ship does not sail then I will be among the first to come to this thread and admit my mistake and congratulate the H/Hr shippers.
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Hermy-own - Aug 9, 2004 7:30 am (#1865 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Tornedo, I agree with you in that you have never said there will be a romantic H/Hr ship.
The thing I don't understand is the concept of a non-romantic 'ship (see drippan's post #1863). After all, JKR has said Harry will kiss someone in HBP and IMO a kiss (or a 'snog' as she calls it) is certainly a romantic act. Does that not mean H/Hr will remain friends and nothing more?
EDIT:
Tornedo: Wow! I'm impressed your heart is still at Anfield till this day! Nice to see a true supporter, its a rare thing nowadays. I'm convinced that you will not react badly if your 'ships do not sail.
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Veritaserum - Aug 9, 2004 9:49 am (#1866 of 2916)
Go Jays!
I can see Harry getting into a weird situation and snogging Luna (you know, nargle hunting under the mistletoe or something)
But I dunno about Snape. He's too Snape-ish, being alone and dark and mysterious and seemingly evil (key word being seemingly), and I think him having a love interest would just be kinda cheesy. Or maybe he was in love with Lily, and that is yet another thing he holds against James.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 9:55 am (#1867 of 2916)
"After all, JKR has said Harry will kiss someone in HBP and IMO a kiss (or a 'snog' as she calls it) is certainly a romantic act."
Hermione kissed Harry once.
Make of that what you will.
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Czarina II - Aug 9, 2004 12:59 pm (#1868 of 2916)
Hermione kissed Ron once too. She kissed both of them on the cheek.
(shrugs)
I think their reactions are more telling. She considers both of them her friends.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 1:20 pm (#1869 of 2916)
Strange... give me a passage, because I do not recall when Hermione kissed Ron...
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tracie1976 - Aug 9, 2004 1:28 pm (#1870 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Hermione kissed Ron right before he played in his first Quidditch match to distract Ron from noticing the badges the Slytherins were wearing. Sorry I don't have the book right now to site the page.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 1:41 pm (#1871 of 2916)
Thanks. I guess I must have been as oblivious as Ron...
In any case, "you must remember this; a kiss is just a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh."
I very much doubt that Hermy will do both of them, even though she did kiss both of them.
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 1:44 pm (#1872 of 2916)
yup, and after she kissed him he was touching his cheek or something like that.
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Chris. - Aug 9, 2004 1:51 pm (#1873 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Did she? She may have been distracting him from the Slytherin badges but she could have also been giving him a good-luck kiss. I don't think there was any "romance" in it.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 2:06 pm (#1874 of 2916)
Okay... She told Harry not to let Ron see the badges. She wished Ron good luck and kissed him (I'm guessing that it was a good luck kiss.)
But, as with the other kiss, make of it what you will.
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Czarina II - Aug 9, 2004 2:49 pm (#1875 of 2916)
I doubt she had acute romantic intentions when she kissed either of them. Still, in the case of Ron, why was that the first thing she thought of to distract him?
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 3:29 pm (#1876 of 2916)
As much as I want a R?Hr ship I do agree that there was nothing romantic in that little peck on the cheek.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 3:30 pm (#1877 of 2916)
Mione kiss on Ron can be interpreted in many ways, Either she likes him, she wishes him good luck and she is making someone jealous. I believe option 3 is a bit feasible. why did she blatantly done in front of Harry and i believe that kiss was done after Cho kissed Harry. What if it was a retaliatory attack of Mione on Harry.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:32 pm (#1878 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it's number two. I can't see Hermione playing with Ron's feelings to tease Harry, whom did not even care. Hermione is not like that.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 3:47 pm (#1879 of 2916)
You alway can do it discreetly without malice.If people misunderstood your intention, it is their problem. I didn't say that she is toying his feelings. I am only saying that she is doing it in retaliation to Harry.
If Ron and Hermione were going to be an item, Ron will endure a prolonged periods of Mione talking about Harry. I don't think Ron has the patience and willpower to endure this torture.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:52 pm (#1880 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Do you have any proof that he does not have the patience and willpower, or that all Hr is going to talk about is Harry? I think Ron and Hermione talk about Harry a lot, no matter what. He is their best friends and they care about him.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 4:07 pm (#1881 of 2916)
Temper temper.Kindly control your temper. Remember the Krum and Hermione affair. Ron's temper is bit short and I can show you an example. A mere mention of the word weasel can anger him and I believe that happened in day of forming of the DA.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 4:13 pm (#1882 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Was the temper, temper for me? If so, I wasn't getting angry. I was just expressing my feelings. My apologies if it came off as anger.
But those are two different things. It's the difference between Harry calling him 'Weasley' as a nickname, like in FB, and then Malfoy calling him the same thing because he thinks he's better.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 4:30 pm (#1883 of 2916)
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality. There is a big difference on what was said. Saying the word weasel was not even targeted to Ron in fact it was targetted to Harry. Ron got angry and don't argue that he doing it to shield Harry. It will not work. This shows that Ron has a short fuse and has minimal tolerance to criticism
You are lucky that I am now sleepy.I have to log out. I wish we can cvontinue this later. It a is pleasure clashing minds with you. Bye
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 5:01 pm (#1884 of 2916)
Honestly I donot think Ron would get jealous of a Hemione spending time with Harry they are all friends and if two hang out at one poing when the other is not there I do not think that will be a big deal
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True Love - Aug 9, 2004 6:57 pm (#1885 of 2916)
I think Ron would get jealous if he say Hermione planting a good kiss on Harry (not just a peck on the cheek). Remember when she said Harry wasn't bad at kissing (because Cho was crying at the time), Ron was quickly challenging this statement and asked how Hermione could possible know. I think Ron had a quick flash of jealousy there.
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Magika - Aug 10, 2004 2:59 am (#1886 of 2916)
I agree, true love. That scene made me laugh, cause Ron was so obviously jealous. He probably thought they'd been snogging behind his back.
As for Ron's peck on the cheek, I believe it was simply to distract him. Ron's reaction (touching the spot she'd kissed him) however, make me think he was shocked. He didn't hate it, though! He didn't say "Yuck, get off!"
Harry's kiss on the cheek... Well, I've kissed lots of people on the cheek while saying goodbye.
And, maybe this has been mentioned before, but in the movies, you see clear signs that points towards a R/Hr-ship. Ex when Hermione grabs Ron's hand in teh Hippogriff scene, and in PS, where Hermione almost hugs Ron, but it gets a little awkward. I know from own exsperience that things might get a little awkward when you're going to hug/talk to one you've got a crush on. Would JKR let the signs point towards a ship between the two if it was completely wrong? I don't think so.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 10, 2004 3:07 am (#1887 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality. There is a big difference on what was said. Saying the word weasel was not even targeted to Ron in fact it was targetted to Harry. Ron got angry and don't argue that he doing it to shield Harry. It will not work. This shows that Ron has a short fuse and has minimal tolerance to criticism -- total hatred
I have a question about your post total hatred. Have you just said that Star Crossed has a short fuse? Please note; this is merely a question to total hatred and atleast I have no direct intentions of insulting anyone. I was just curious.
Anyway, as far as Hermione kissing Ron is concerned... I think that was to distract Ron AND as a good luck kiss. BTW, it is really curious that JKR has inserted that kiss where it's easy to miss for a casual one-time reader. I didn't notice it till my second reading. Contrastingly; Hermione's kiss to Harry is placed in a position where it is very hard to miss. It has an entire para for itself. Why's that? I'm sure that in this case too, H/Hr and R/Hr 'shippers will interpret differently.
Tornedo: Wow! I'm impressed your heart is still at Anfield till this day! Nice to see a true supporter, its a rare thing nowadays. I'm convinced that you will not react badly if your 'ships do not sail. -- hermy-own
Well, I'm ever-optimistic, and support the Reds only because they have Michael Owen. He leaves and I switch my allegence to Old Trafford.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 10, 2004 3:44 am (#1888 of 2916)
"Would JKR let the signs point towards a ship between the two if it was completely wrong? I don't think so."
cough* Harry *cough* and Cho *cough*...
Ron seemed as awkward when Hermione kissed him, as Harry was when Cho kissed him...
BTW, Hermione kissed Ron before Cho kissed Harry, so maybe the above sentence should be switched.
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Chris. - Aug 10, 2004 8:23 am (#1889 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality.-- Total hatred
Hmmm... I would take that as a compliment. Ron's a funny guy, who is loyal and hard-working.
I think Hermione's kiss to Ron was just a good-luck kiss with nothing else in it, except, maybe she could have been distracting him. Didn't Ron touch his cheek with disbelief?... I think he thinks there was something in it.
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Good Evans - Aug 10, 2004 12:29 pm (#1890 of 2916)
Practically perfect in every way
I think this is abit far fetched - but you never know... I posted this on Mariettas thread also
I wonder whether Marietta may become Harrys love interest in book six.
She was acting from fear of her parents (mother works for ministry) that she must not act against Umbridge and the ministry. Her animosity towards Harry may not just be that he is causing her to be in colflict with her parents instructions but maybe she is also Jealous of his attention to Cho. She has hopefully learned her lesson now - could well feel mortified about what she did and apologise to Harry et al for her treachery. As her reasons are not malicious but conflict he may forgive her. In time Harry may well notice that she is a pretty girl (she is described as having curly hair but is she also described as pretty?). She could also be a week link later, if she bends to pressure she could be very valuable to voldemort. Oh how tragic this would be if she were also Harry's Girl. she has been introduced as a background character to boost cho and to be the "mole" of the DA - bit maybe she has yet another role.
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Kasse - Aug 10, 2004 12:52 pm (#1891 of 2916)
That would be a bit strange for him (Harry)don't you think? From Cho to one of her closest friends Marietta, I do not see it happening but I am trying to keep my mind open to any and all possibilities, however I feel this one needs more evidence.
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KWeldon - Aug 10, 2004 1:05 pm (#1892 of 2916)
Out of curiosity, I googled the name Marietta. Although in most languages it is a pet form of Mary and means bitterness, in Hebrew it means, "the perfect one". For what it's worth.
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Green Eyes - Aug 10, 2004 1:36 pm (#1893 of 2916)
You cannot equate Hermione kissing Ron to Harry being kissed by Cho...Ron is being kissed by someone who he has had alot of interaction with and who is a friend that he perhaps sees more in. Harry has a crying Cho ( who he has never really interacted with before book 5) coming at him. I see Ron as more surprised than uncomfortable...like wow...that was unexpected but not horrible- he is speechless. Harry was downright confused because his expectation was that when you kissed a girl she wasn't usually crying about some other boy. \For those of you who think Ginny as a 'ship for Harry is too predictable...what is making Hermione his 'ship? She is the most obvious girl in his life. Ginny has been non-existent other than her crush and behind the scenes stuff in COS. Cho was not obvious...she was with Cedric until GOF. Harry liked her but she wasn't a part of his life at all until book 5.
If Harry is going to end up with someone in his future,( and I think to leave Harry alone in the end would be very cruel) we have to be introduced to her at some point. I want to know who Harry ends up with. That's why I don't 'ship one of the other minor female characters like Susan or Hannah. Since we are now at book 6 (soon hopefully) it needs to happen and I think it started in book 5 with the groundwork that JKR laid with Ginny's character arc. Hermione has always been there and she has always been the same. Ginny has always been there but she has not always been the same in her interactions with Harry...that is changing. I love the idea of Harry an offical member of the Weasley family (Hermione too for that matter)...family is the most important thing to him and even though Molly says "he's as good as my son, who else has he got?" He still doesn't consider himself a member of their family in book 5. We shall see!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 11, 2004 5:48 am (#1894 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality.-- Total hatred
Hmmm... I would take that as a compliment. Ron's a funny guy, who is loyal and hard-working. -- Prongs
Oh yeah? Later in the same post, total hatred accuses Ron of having a short fuse.
Harry/Ginny? There is no canon evidence for that. Isn't this discussion going in circles?
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 6:03 am (#1895 of 2916)
Harry/Ginny? There is no canon evidence for that. Isn't this discussion going in circles? - Tornedo
Unfortunately (I say unfortunately because I would love to see a H/G ship) I have to agree with Tornedo. Besides Ginny's birthday is today making her a Leo (just like Harry) and me being a Leo too I can tell you that two Leos together is not a very good match.......
I have not jumped ship though; I will always be a H/G and R/Hr shipper!
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 11, 2004 7:22 am (#1896 of 2916)
This whole thing about steady relationships being unlikely until mid-20s: I don't get it. Yes, that's the way it usually is, and probably should be, in real life. But this is a story. In a story, there's likely to at least be someone Harry can make out with before the final battle.
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Eponine - Aug 11, 2004 7:44 am (#1897 of 2916)
Hey, Zhigulii Longbottom, we have the same birthday! Happy Birthday late.
Um...on topic, I know that there's no canon evidence for Harry/Ginny, but I still like it. It's just a feeling I have.
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 7:45 am (#1898 of 2916)
Zhigulii - belated happy birthday to you and your wife. I am sure that they are exceptions to every rule and I REALLY hope that H/G will be one of those exceptions.
Congratulations to you and your wife's 14 years together - and yes we lionesses tend to win most of the time
EDIT: Eponine - a happy belated birthday to you too! - yay Leo's!
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 11, 2004 12:11 pm (#1899 of 2916)
I havent read all through this thread, but has anyone done any of the other star signs and compatibility? That would be kind of interesting, considering we do have B-days for trio (and perhaps could scrape some up for those outside). If I get bored, and find no one else has done this, maybe Ill figure it out for everybody... :-)
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 12:23 pm (#1900 of 2916)
Hmmmm you got me thinking about this. I guess it is another way to look at the ships so here goes.
Ok so Harry(July 31st), Neville (July 30th) and Giny (Aug 11th) are Leo's, Hermione is a Virgo (Sept 19th) - oh dear I am afraid I do not know what Ron is. Anyhow for all you H/Hr shippers here is how they pair up.
Leo/Virgo: When Virgo and Leo join together in a love match, they may initially overlook common interests and feel they have nothing to gain from one another. This is a relationship that evolves over time, each partner gradually understanding and appreciating the other. Leo is extroverted, dominant, and charismatic, and often has a short fuse. Virgo is studious and withdrawn, possessed of more versatility than Leo. Although there are differences, they make a wonderful love match when each partner warms up to the other's unfamiliar style.
And for all you (I should say all of us because I am one of them) H/G shippers.. this is also for all the N/G shippers.
Leo/Leo: When two Leos join together in a love match, they draw a great deal of attention. Others hold their breath and take notice. Two such stunning, creative, gregarious individuals seem to deserve one another. Theirs is an unbeatable combination when it comes to socializing, heading a group, or even inspiring others in the ways of romance. This duo was instantly attracted to their fellow Lion's good looks, and neither was shy in manifesting their desires.
I got all of this of Yahoo's website so if anyone has a better source of information feel free to provide it. Also could someone kindly match up R/Hr ?
EDIT: Good Evans I had made a mistake... I corrected it now
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Canon Seeker
Honestly, while it's fun to talk about who will be dating whom, in the basic scheme of things, I really couldn't care less. It's more of a condiment to the big cheeseburger, and without it, the cheeseburger is just fine.--Weeny Owl
Ah, yes, the Harry Potter series is "Cheeseburger in Paradise!"
My plate would be more complete if HBP would hurry up and get here!
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drippan - Aug 8, 2004 3:55 pm (#1852 of 2916)
ShelterGirl, "Is that saying of yours a paraphrase of the line in Steel Magnolias?" "You are evil, and must be destroyed?"
Seen the movie once with my wife. I don't think it came from there. It's a chick flick!!
As a matter of fact, I only remember it because Julia Roberts was in it!!
Hey Weeny, I'm the same way. I can care less about who 'ships with who as long as JKR explains it or we see how it came about. Like, I would hate to see Draco and Ginny all of a sudden together for no reason.
DripPan
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TomProffitt - Aug 8, 2004 4:09 pm (#1853 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
Before OP I was Harry/Cho 'shipper.
After OP I realized Jo has put a lot more thought into her characters, the way teenagers grow and change, and how all this fits into real life than I have.
The only 'ship that would disappoint me would be a 'ship (even if it's my preferred Harry/Ginny 'ship) that sails without Jo's usual thoughtful planning and well written interactions.
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Maarcus Humill - Aug 8, 2004 6:33 pm (#1854 of 2916)
I think, that in the end for Harry, it's either Hermione or nobody. In the END. Everybody likes Harry and would date him because he is "The Boy Who Lived"> Hermone is the only person who knows just harry and holds him to that. She is driends with just Harry Potter, and she would still be even if he wasnt "The Boy Who Lived". Nobody knows him like she does.
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Veritaserum - Aug 8, 2004 7:11 pm (#1855 of 2916)
Go Jays!
Which is exactly why Harry's just gonna be a bachelor, because Hermione and Ron are in love.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 8, 2004 8:08 pm (#1856 of 2916)
Hey Weeny, I'm the same way. I can care less about who 'ships with who as long as JKR explains it or we see how it came about. Like, I would hate to see Draco and Ginny all of a sudden together for no reason.
Exactly, drippan! However she explains the relationships, if we can follow her reasoning, then regardless of the outcome, I'll be happy. I would hate to see Draco with anyone except a dementor, to be perfectly honest.
Catherine: Jimmy Buffet is pleased. Wonder if he likes the Harry Potter books.
Edit: I did a search on the Internet Movie Database and found this: Ouiser Boudreaux: You are evil, and you must be destroyed. That's from "Steel Magnolias," 1989.
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penguin patronus - Aug 8, 2004 8:42 pm (#1857 of 2916)
"The map never lies!"
J.K. said that Harry will be busy in the sixth book, but he'll still have time for romance. Who do you think he'll fall for next? My sister and I think it might be a slytherin girl.
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Hermy-own - Aug 8, 2004 9:07 pm (#1858 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
My sister and I think it might be a slytherin girl.
--penguin patronus You might want to check out Marcus's theory on the 'Harry's ship uniting the houses' thread. He's given a good case for a Harry/Pansy 'ship.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 8, 2004 9:12 pm (#1859 of 2916)
As far as we know, Harry has never seen the Slytherins as a whole as anything other than an unpleasant lot. It doesn't stop him from seeing individual Slytherins as anything other than unpleasant, but as far as we know, Harry hasn't done that either.
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Hermy-own - Aug 8, 2004 9:33 pm (#1860 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Thanks Prongs for finding that interview! Yep, it seems as though Snape is hiding one or two secrets!
I wonder whether JKR would set up our dear Severus with one of the teachers (Prof Sinastra perhaps?) just to show us he does have a soft side. It would certainly go a long way in convincing us Snape has genuinely left the dark side.
EDIT: but knowing JKR she probably wouldn't want us to know for sure that Snape has completely turned good; it would make for much more interesting reading if we didn't completely trust him.
EDIT EDIT: someone correct me if i'm wrong but prof sinastra is the astronomy teacher at Hogwarts and is female.
EDIT EDIT EDIT: this discussion runs the risk of being moved to the 'Severus Snape' thread but as long as a direct reference is made to his 'ship in each post we should be ok here
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 8, 2004 10:31 pm (#1861 of 2916)
If they had 'a go' at it, I would be twitching for days. There is about a hundred years' difference between the two. I'm sorry, but that is way too many years for me.
According to Lexicon McGonagall was approx 70 when Dumbledore was approx 150. That's a lot of years but it's the equivalent of a 60 year old dating a 28 year old or a 50 year old dating a 23 year old or a 40 year old dating a 18-19year old. Hey if Nicolas Cage can do it!
Sir Tornado - Aug 9, 2004 3:38 am (#1862 of 2916)[/b]
Rebel without a cause.
I think we talked about how many people would give up on the series if their 'ships didn't happen. I don't think anyone would and most would admit their mistakes.
BTW, would that be your reaction if H/Hr didn't work out? Most people think about other people's reactions on the way they would react. -- drippan.
Well, I certainly won't give up on the series if my 'ship didn't happen. I don't read the books only for Romance stories. HP is one of the most complete book ever written. It has a bit of romance, some adventures, some mysteries, some humour, and a LOT of magic. And it's central theme BTW is the fight between Good and Evil; not between H/Hr and R/Hr 'shippers, so atleast I wouldn't give up reading HP if there isn't a H/Hr 'ship. Would I admit my mistakes? No, I wouldn't. Why? Because I'm NEVER mistaken. Please note, I haven't said that there is absolutely no chance at all for a R/Hr 'ship. All I have said is that there will be a H/Hr 'ship. Please note another thing; I can never be wrong on saying this. Is it mentioned any where that a 'ship has to be romantic? It isn't. And speaking in that context, I can't be wrong in any of my assumtions; because I've only said that there'll be a H/Hr 'ship, I have NEVER said there is going to be a romantic H/Hr 'ship. That's some thing everyone takes for granted, but IMHO, nothing should be taken for granted unless it's in Black and White and signed.Would I be disappointed? Yes. Would I be wrong? No.
How would I react? I can assure you I won't react badly. As a Liverpool supporter, I have a habit on being on the losing side. There's always the next season isn't there? Liverpool fans have been saying that since 1989 when they won the league the last time. If it isn't romantic H/Hr 'ship; then there's always a possibility of JKR writing a new series sometime in future isn't there? I'll be waiting and hoping then. Or, there's always books comming from other authors which are good enough to be read.
Which is exactly why Harry's just gonna be a bachelor, because Hermione and Ron are in love. -- Veritaserum
Old assumtion again? Here's the old argument. There's no canon evidence that Hermione likes Ron. And Ron may only have a crush on Hermione which; as many poined out, isn't love.
Now, Let me see. Here's a prediction. Atleast one of you'll quote that remark Hermione says about Ron being tactless to Harry after explaining Cho's behaviour and many will point out Hermione's alleged jealousy towards Fleur. And some H/Hr 'shipper will try to shove aside those arguments saying something about misinterpretations. See? I told you I know all the arguments on this thread by heart.
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drippan - Aug 9, 2004 4:16 am (#1863 of 2916)
Tornedo, "because I've only said that there'll be a H/Hr 'ship, I have NEVER said there is going to be a romantic H/Hr 'ship. "
In that case, H/Hr have been 'shipping since the first book. They have a relationship now, it's called friendship!
Anyone disagree with that?
DripPan
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 7:09 am (#1864 of 2916)
Tornedo you really made me laugh fist thing on a Monday morning. I have to agree with Drip Pan and say if you were indeed meaning a non romantic ship then everyone has been shipping through these past five books. I thought we were strictly talking about romance on this thread not platonic friendship.
I do not see any fans not continuing to read the series just because their ship does not happen. To agree with Tornedo, there so much more to the story than ships. If I am wrong and my beloved R/Hr (romantic) ship does not sail then I will be among the first to come to this thread and admit my mistake and congratulate the H/Hr shippers.
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Hermy-own - Aug 9, 2004 7:30 am (#1865 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Tornedo, I agree with you in that you have never said there will be a romantic H/Hr ship.
The thing I don't understand is the concept of a non-romantic 'ship (see drippan's post #1863). After all, JKR has said Harry will kiss someone in HBP and IMO a kiss (or a 'snog' as she calls it) is certainly a romantic act. Does that not mean H/Hr will remain friends and nothing more?
EDIT:
Tornedo: Wow! I'm impressed your heart is still at Anfield till this day! Nice to see a true supporter, its a rare thing nowadays. I'm convinced that you will not react badly if your 'ships do not sail.
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Veritaserum - Aug 9, 2004 9:49 am (#1866 of 2916)
Go Jays!
I can see Harry getting into a weird situation and snogging Luna (you know, nargle hunting under the mistletoe or something)
But I dunno about Snape. He's too Snape-ish, being alone and dark and mysterious and seemingly evil (key word being seemingly), and I think him having a love interest would just be kinda cheesy. Or maybe he was in love with Lily, and that is yet another thing he holds against James.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 9:55 am (#1867 of 2916)
"After all, JKR has said Harry will kiss someone in HBP and IMO a kiss (or a 'snog' as she calls it) is certainly a romantic act."
Hermione kissed Harry once.
Make of that what you will.
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Czarina II - Aug 9, 2004 12:59 pm (#1868 of 2916)
Hermione kissed Ron once too. She kissed both of them on the cheek.
(shrugs)
I think their reactions are more telling. She considers both of them her friends.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 1:20 pm (#1869 of 2916)
Strange... give me a passage, because I do not recall when Hermione kissed Ron...
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tracie1976 - Aug 9, 2004 1:28 pm (#1870 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Hermione kissed Ron right before he played in his first Quidditch match to distract Ron from noticing the badges the Slytherins were wearing. Sorry I don't have the book right now to site the page.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 1:41 pm (#1871 of 2916)
Thanks. I guess I must have been as oblivious as Ron...
In any case, "you must remember this; a kiss is just a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh."
I very much doubt that Hermy will do both of them, even though she did kiss both of them.
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 1:44 pm (#1872 of 2916)
yup, and after she kissed him he was touching his cheek or something like that.
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Chris. - Aug 9, 2004 1:51 pm (#1873 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Did she? She may have been distracting him from the Slytherin badges but she could have also been giving him a good-luck kiss. I don't think there was any "romance" in it.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 9, 2004 2:06 pm (#1874 of 2916)
Okay... She told Harry not to let Ron see the badges. She wished Ron good luck and kissed him (I'm guessing that it was a good luck kiss.)
But, as with the other kiss, make of it what you will.
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Czarina II - Aug 9, 2004 2:49 pm (#1875 of 2916)
I doubt she had acute romantic intentions when she kissed either of them. Still, in the case of Ron, why was that the first thing she thought of to distract him?
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 3:29 pm (#1876 of 2916)
As much as I want a R?Hr ship I do agree that there was nothing romantic in that little peck on the cheek.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 3:30 pm (#1877 of 2916)
Mione kiss on Ron can be interpreted in many ways, Either she likes him, she wishes him good luck and she is making someone jealous. I believe option 3 is a bit feasible. why did she blatantly done in front of Harry and i believe that kiss was done after Cho kissed Harry. What if it was a retaliatory attack of Mione on Harry.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:32 pm (#1878 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think it's number two. I can't see Hermione playing with Ron's feelings to tease Harry, whom did not even care. Hermione is not like that.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 3:47 pm (#1879 of 2916)
You alway can do it discreetly without malice.If people misunderstood your intention, it is their problem. I didn't say that she is toying his feelings. I am only saying that she is doing it in retaliation to Harry.
If Ron and Hermione were going to be an item, Ron will endure a prolonged periods of Mione talking about Harry. I don't think Ron has the patience and willpower to endure this torture.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:52 pm (#1880 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Do you have any proof that he does not have the patience and willpower, or that all Hr is going to talk about is Harry? I think Ron and Hermione talk about Harry a lot, no matter what. He is their best friends and they care about him.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 4:07 pm (#1881 of 2916)
Temper temper.Kindly control your temper. Remember the Krum and Hermione affair. Ron's temper is bit short and I can show you an example. A mere mention of the word weasel can anger him and I believe that happened in day of forming of the DA.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 4:13 pm (#1882 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Was the temper, temper for me? If so, I wasn't getting angry. I was just expressing my feelings. My apologies if it came off as anger.
But those are two different things. It's the difference between Harry calling him 'Weasley' as a nickname, like in FB, and then Malfoy calling him the same thing because he thinks he's better.
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total hatred - Aug 9, 2004 4:30 pm (#1883 of 2916)
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality. There is a big difference on what was said. Saying the word weasel was not even targeted to Ron in fact it was targetted to Harry. Ron got angry and don't argue that he doing it to shield Harry. It will not work. This shows that Ron has a short fuse and has minimal tolerance to criticism
You are lucky that I am now sleepy.I have to log out. I wish we can cvontinue this later. It a is pleasure clashing minds with you. Bye
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Kasse - Aug 9, 2004 5:01 pm (#1884 of 2916)
Honestly I donot think Ron would get jealous of a Hemione spending time with Harry they are all friends and if two hang out at one poing when the other is not there I do not think that will be a big deal
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True Love - Aug 9, 2004 6:57 pm (#1885 of 2916)
I think Ron would get jealous if he say Hermione planting a good kiss on Harry (not just a peck on the cheek). Remember when she said Harry wasn't bad at kissing (because Cho was crying at the time), Ron was quickly challenging this statement and asked how Hermione could possible know. I think Ron had a quick flash of jealousy there.
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Magika - Aug 10, 2004 2:59 am (#1886 of 2916)
I agree, true love. That scene made me laugh, cause Ron was so obviously jealous. He probably thought they'd been snogging behind his back.
As for Ron's peck on the cheek, I believe it was simply to distract him. Ron's reaction (touching the spot she'd kissed him) however, make me think he was shocked. He didn't hate it, though! He didn't say "Yuck, get off!"
Harry's kiss on the cheek... Well, I've kissed lots of people on the cheek while saying goodbye.
And, maybe this has been mentioned before, but in the movies, you see clear signs that points towards a R/Hr-ship. Ex when Hermione grabs Ron's hand in teh Hippogriff scene, and in PS, where Hermione almost hugs Ron, but it gets a little awkward. I know from own exsperience that things might get a little awkward when you're going to hug/talk to one you've got a crush on. Would JKR let the signs point towards a ship between the two if it was completely wrong? I don't think so.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 10, 2004 3:07 am (#1887 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality. There is a big difference on what was said. Saying the word weasel was not even targeted to Ron in fact it was targetted to Harry. Ron got angry and don't argue that he doing it to shield Harry. It will not work. This shows that Ron has a short fuse and has minimal tolerance to criticism -- total hatred
I have a question about your post total hatred. Have you just said that Star Crossed has a short fuse? Please note; this is merely a question to total hatred and atleast I have no direct intentions of insulting anyone. I was just curious.
Anyway, as far as Hermione kissing Ron is concerned... I think that was to distract Ron AND as a good luck kiss. BTW, it is really curious that JKR has inserted that kiss where it's easy to miss for a casual one-time reader. I didn't notice it till my second reading. Contrastingly; Hermione's kiss to Harry is placed in a position where it is very hard to miss. It has an entire para for itself. Why's that? I'm sure that in this case too, H/Hr and R/Hr 'shippers will interpret differently.
Tornedo: Wow! I'm impressed your heart is still at Anfield till this day! Nice to see a true supporter, its a rare thing nowadays. I'm convinced that you will not react badly if your 'ships do not sail. -- hermy-own
Well, I'm ever-optimistic, and support the Reds only because they have Michael Owen. He leaves and I switch my allegence to Old Trafford.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 10, 2004 3:44 am (#1888 of 2916)
"Would JKR let the signs point towards a ship between the two if it was completely wrong? I don't think so."
cough* Harry *cough* and Cho *cough*...
Ron seemed as awkward when Hermione kissed him, as Harry was when Cho kissed him...
BTW, Hermione kissed Ron before Cho kissed Harry, so maybe the above sentence should be switched.
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Chris. - Aug 10, 2004 8:23 am (#1889 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality.-- Total hatred
Hmmm... I would take that as a compliment. Ron's a funny guy, who is loyal and hard-working.
I think Hermione's kiss to Ron was just a good-luck kiss with nothing else in it, except, maybe she could have been distracting him. Didn't Ron touch his cheek with disbelief?... I think he thinks there was something in it.
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Good Evans - Aug 10, 2004 12:29 pm (#1890 of 2916)
Practically perfect in every way
I think this is abit far fetched - but you never know... I posted this on Mariettas thread also
I wonder whether Marietta may become Harrys love interest in book six.
She was acting from fear of her parents (mother works for ministry) that she must not act against Umbridge and the ministry. Her animosity towards Harry may not just be that he is causing her to be in colflict with her parents instructions but maybe she is also Jealous of his attention to Cho. She has hopefully learned her lesson now - could well feel mortified about what she did and apologise to Harry et al for her treachery. As her reasons are not malicious but conflict he may forgive her. In time Harry may well notice that she is a pretty girl (she is described as having curly hair but is she also described as pretty?). She could also be a week link later, if she bends to pressure she could be very valuable to voldemort. Oh how tragic this would be if she were also Harry's Girl. she has been introduced as a background character to boost cho and to be the "mole" of the DA - bit maybe she has yet another role.
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Kasse - Aug 10, 2004 12:52 pm (#1891 of 2916)
That would be a bit strange for him (Harry)don't you think? From Cho to one of her closest friends Marietta, I do not see it happening but I am trying to keep my mind open to any and all possibilities, however I feel this one needs more evidence.
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KWeldon - Aug 10, 2004 1:05 pm (#1892 of 2916)
Out of curiosity, I googled the name Marietta. Although in most languages it is a pet form of Mary and means bitterness, in Hebrew it means, "the perfect one". For what it's worth.
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Green Eyes - Aug 10, 2004 1:36 pm (#1893 of 2916)
You cannot equate Hermione kissing Ron to Harry being kissed by Cho...Ron is being kissed by someone who he has had alot of interaction with and who is a friend that he perhaps sees more in. Harry has a crying Cho ( who he has never really interacted with before book 5) coming at him. I see Ron as more surprised than uncomfortable...like wow...that was unexpected but not horrible- he is speechless. Harry was downright confused because his expectation was that when you kissed a girl she wasn't usually crying about some other boy. \For those of you who think Ginny as a 'ship for Harry is too predictable...what is making Hermione his 'ship? She is the most obvious girl in his life. Ginny has been non-existent other than her crush and behind the scenes stuff in COS. Cho was not obvious...she was with Cedric until GOF. Harry liked her but she wasn't a part of his life at all until book 5.
If Harry is going to end up with someone in his future,( and I think to leave Harry alone in the end would be very cruel) we have to be introduced to her at some point. I want to know who Harry ends up with. That's why I don't 'ship one of the other minor female characters like Susan or Hannah. Since we are now at book 6 (soon hopefully) it needs to happen and I think it started in book 5 with the groundwork that JKR laid with Ginny's character arc. Hermione has always been there and she has always been the same. Ginny has always been there but she has not always been the same in her interactions with Harry...that is changing. I love the idea of Harry an offical member of the Weasley family (Hermione too for that matter)...family is the most important thing to him and even though Molly says "he's as good as my son, who else has he got?" He still doesn't consider himself a member of their family in book 5. We shall see!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 11, 2004 5:48 am (#1894 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You are now acting like Ron. Being one of premiere R/H shippers, I can see you are adapting his personality.-- Total hatred
Hmmm... I would take that as a compliment. Ron's a funny guy, who is loyal and hard-working. -- Prongs
Oh yeah? Later in the same post, total hatred accuses Ron of having a short fuse.
Harry/Ginny? There is no canon evidence for that. Isn't this discussion going in circles?
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 6:03 am (#1895 of 2916)
Harry/Ginny? There is no canon evidence for that. Isn't this discussion going in circles? - Tornedo
Unfortunately (I say unfortunately because I would love to see a H/G ship) I have to agree with Tornedo. Besides Ginny's birthday is today making her a Leo (just like Harry) and me being a Leo too I can tell you that two Leos together is not a very good match.......
I have not jumped ship though; I will always be a H/G and R/Hr shipper!
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 11, 2004 7:22 am (#1896 of 2916)
This whole thing about steady relationships being unlikely until mid-20s: I don't get it. Yes, that's the way it usually is, and probably should be, in real life. But this is a story. In a story, there's likely to at least be someone Harry can make out with before the final battle.
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Eponine - Aug 11, 2004 7:44 am (#1897 of 2916)
Hey, Zhigulii Longbottom, we have the same birthday! Happy Birthday late.
Um...on topic, I know that there's no canon evidence for Harry/Ginny, but I still like it. It's just a feeling I have.
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 7:45 am (#1898 of 2916)
Zhigulii - belated happy birthday to you and your wife. I am sure that they are exceptions to every rule and I REALLY hope that H/G will be one of those exceptions.
Congratulations to you and your wife's 14 years together - and yes we lionesses tend to win most of the time
EDIT: Eponine - a happy belated birthday to you too! - yay Leo's!
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 11, 2004 12:11 pm (#1899 of 2916)
I havent read all through this thread, but has anyone done any of the other star signs and compatibility? That would be kind of interesting, considering we do have B-days for trio (and perhaps could scrape some up for those outside). If I get bored, and find no one else has done this, maybe Ill figure it out for everybody... :-)
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 12:23 pm (#1900 of 2916)
Hmmmm you got me thinking about this. I guess it is another way to look at the ships so here goes.
Ok so Harry(July 31st), Neville (July 30th) and Giny (Aug 11th) are Leo's, Hermione is a Virgo (Sept 19th) - oh dear I am afraid I do not know what Ron is. Anyhow for all you H/Hr shippers here is how they pair up.
Leo/Virgo: When Virgo and Leo join together in a love match, they may initially overlook common interests and feel they have nothing to gain from one another. This is a relationship that evolves over time, each partner gradually understanding and appreciating the other. Leo is extroverted, dominant, and charismatic, and often has a short fuse. Virgo is studious and withdrawn, possessed of more versatility than Leo. Although there are differences, they make a wonderful love match when each partner warms up to the other's unfamiliar style.
And for all you (I should say all of us because I am one of them) H/G shippers.. this is also for all the N/G shippers.
Leo/Leo: When two Leos join together in a love match, they draw a great deal of attention. Others hold their breath and take notice. Two such stunning, creative, gregarious individuals seem to deserve one another. Theirs is an unbeatable combination when it comes to socializing, heading a group, or even inspiring others in the ways of romance. This duo was instantly attracted to their fellow Lion's good looks, and neither was shy in manifesting their desires.
I got all of this of Yahoo's website so if anyone has a better source of information feel free to provide it. Also could someone kindly match up R/Hr ?
EDIT: Good Evans I had made a mistake... I corrected it now
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Good Evans - Aug 11, 2004 12:27 pm (#1901 of 2916)
Practically perfect in every way
Ginny's birthday is aug 11 or july 11? if July 11 she is a cancer not a leo. Im a bit confused as diffeing dates on this thread.
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Padfoot - Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm (#1902 of 2916)
Ginny's birthday is August 11, according to JKR's website. So happy birthday Ginny!
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 11, 2004 1:31 pm (#1903 of 2916)
Aww.... Rons B-day (as said on this site) is March 1st, making him a little old Pisces like me! Anyway, here is a the Ron/Hermione hook up (done on MSN.com Astrology):
Piscean imagination and poetry provide needed relief to Virgoan common sense, broadening horizons which would otherwise become monotonous. These two individuals share an open-mindedness which would promote discovery, and they may find a way to be happy together. The Piscean can sense the Virgo's desires intuitively, which is ideal for their sex life. If the Virgoan respects the Fish's mysterious inner depths, he or she will derive great rewards from Pisces. A sense of love is one of the gifts both individuals possess.
I dont know if Ron truly has alot of Piscean traits, but I guess he could. Its all in the stars!
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 1:42 pm (#1904 of 2916)
Thank you Fluviusi
I found this match on the yahoo website and I think it describes R/Hr relationship perfectly I just had to put it up here.
Piscies/Virgo: When Virgo and Pisces join together in a love match, it generally makes for a healthy relationship. The two Signs are opposite one another within the Zodiac, and such Signs tend to be well balanced, one making up for qualities the other lacks. They are an easy-going, do-gooding duo, and often devote their time to helping others as well as one another. Each partner in this couple brings out the best aspects in the other.
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 11, 2004 1:52 pm (#1905 of 2916)
Yes, I do believe that that explanation is a little better than the one MSN provided. All the same, it sounds like astrology is behind a R/Hr relationship.
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True Love - Aug 11, 2004 5:22 pm (#1906 of 2916)
I can't see Harry with any of the women we have already seen. Ginny is too much like a sister-friend than girl-friend. Luna just seems to out-of-it. She is a funny type of girl - a sort of future Trelawny. I suspect Harry will be with someone other than those two, maybe someone from a different house to have his teen relationship with. I think in the end though, he will remain a bachelor and not have a serious relationship with anyone.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 11, 2004 9:31 pm (#1907 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Zhigulii - belated happy birthday to you and your wife. Also, Happy Birthday Ginny.
Well, I'm glad to have something not seen on this thread before; But I really don't think JKR will decide relationships based on their Star signs. Actually, if you look at the Zodiac rationally, you'll notice that it is a load of rubbish. More than 10 billion people around the world have the same Star Signs. Does it imply that they have the same personalities and futures? No. Me and my uncle have our birthdays on the same day, (Sept 28) still, we have very different personalities.
Now, to change the topic a bit, what do you think of Love potions? We have heard of the love potions thrice; in CoS, PoA and GoF. Will it actually make an appearance? If it does, will it help towards sailing any 'Ship? What doy you all think?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 12, 2004 12:25 am (#1908 of 2916)
"All the same, it sounds like astrology is behind a R/Hr relationship"
And Hermione doesn't care much for astrology, or divination in general...
Of course, her attitude toward Ron matches her attitude toward astrology perfectly...
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 12, 2004 6:32 am (#1909 of 2916)
Sorry for trying to bring something somewhat interesting into the 'ship thread.
Tornedo~~ I could only imagine that JKR could not have thought about star signs at all when assigning birthdays, but none the less, astrology always interested me, and I was bored yesterday. I know that it is highly unlikely to really effect people in real life (or the fictional one) and that alot of what astrology says about a certain group can stretch over many many people. It just interests me. Like Harry Potter. Hes not real, but we talk about him to no end.
Sorry, I thought people would get a kind of kick out of the astrology thing, not just tell me their feelings on astrology in general. Eh.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 7:30 am (#1910 of 2916)
Hi all! I'm fairly new, and would like to add my two knuts to the discussion (apologies if this has been discussed previously).
I don't know who Harry will end up with, but I don't think it will be Hermione. Several times in the GoF, he states, "Hermione's not my girlfriend, we're just friends." I'm taking Harry at his word on this one. Hermione is one of Harry's best friends, and I don't see him thinking of her in any other way - he asks for her advice on romantic issues. I think that whomever Harry does end up with, she'll have to accept Hermione as Harry's friend and not be jealous of her (like Cho). I also think Harry grows tired of Hermione's nagging, where Ron lets it roll off his back.
About the Christmas presents in OotP, Harry gives Hermione a book, something you'd give a friend. Ron gives Hermione perfume, something you give a girlfriend. What's really funny is that Hermione gives them both homework planners (she wants them to do better).
Regardless of who Harry dates, I hope he dates someone that is nice and experiences some romantic love. He needs some happiness in his life!
Do you think Hagrid will find a "lady friend" for Grawp?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 12, 2004 8:47 am (#1911 of 2916)
I don't buy this astrology thing for HP characters. Considering how much JKR makes fun of Trelawney's astronomy, what are the chances she would decide to have zodiac signs affect her characters.
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Kasse - Aug 12, 2004 9:00 am (#1912 of 2916)
True she does make fun of Divination but she does take astrology quite seriously - the whole "Mars is bright" which means the second war is on it's way and so forth, that is an important part in the book IMO
On a side note please do not think that I was trying to suggest the JKR is having zodiac signs affect her characters. I was merely trying to keep an open mind and look at the ships from a perspective that had not been explored before on this thread.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 11:04 am (#1913 of 2916)
I think looking at the relationships astrologically is fun. Harry and Ginny are both Leos. Leo=Lion=Gryffindor.
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 12, 2004 12:04 pm (#1914 of 2916)
Jolly good observation Looney!
I also was not saying that JKR had any intentions on focusing on astrology at all when designing charactors.
I really wish I had OotP to quote exactly what Firenze has to say about the subject of future gazing and the stars and all that. Something to the effect that it can be helpful but even the cenataurs (who are far more intelligent in this field) sometimes misintepret what the stars have to say.
Oh by the way, I definatly think Snape needs to hook up with someone. Come to think of it, how come none of the proffesors have any sort of wives/husbands? Or do we just not know about them?
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Czarina II - Aug 12, 2004 1:46 pm (#1915 of 2916)
About the Christmas presents. It's true that Hermione gives both boys homework planners, while their gifts to her are more indicative of their respective feelings for her (IMHO). But I don't think this is because she doesn't have romantic feelings for either of them. I think she likes Ron (again, IMHO), but how would it look for her to buy something special for him and not Harry? She wouldn't think it was fair. And what do you get a teenage boy that you like for Christmas when you're fifteen, anyway? (Of course, something that he actually would LIKE would be a start, but I am not Hermione.)
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Annika - Aug 12, 2004 2:06 pm (#1916 of 2916)
I find looking at the relationships through astrology interesting and fun. Here is one I found (I have editted out the unsuitable content and length). Notice the the prevelance of royalty!
Leo the Lion is the monarch of the zodiac, so the royal match is eagerly observed by lesser folk, since it's on display for all to see. The Sun rules Leo so the central star of our solar system, the ruler of the heart, shines grandly on your love.
You'll love your regal partner's grand sense of social awareness, fondness for society and natural ability to take command. So much like you! Leo can be bossy, vain and demanding, Leo can be possessive (out of pride and needing to be the centre of attention).
This relationship will be potentially long-lasting, particularly if you can find external interests in common, for the two of you can be very stubborn and mighty determined to get your own way. Understand each others strengths and weaknesses (for they are your own) and nothing will stop you.
Tornedo: Studing astrology involves more than just your birthday, but the time, year and planetary alignments during the exact moment of your birth. So in each year there are 525,600 minutes, hence an equal number of different astrological profiles.
Annika
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 2:56 pm (#1917 of 2916)
Hi Czarina!
Hermione has bought Harry personal/personalized gifts in the past, i.e., the broomstick polishing kit (a birthday present, I think), which Harry was in awe over. I think for the OotP Christmas, she bought them both the same gift only because they were always behind on their homework, not that she was trying to spare anyone's feelings (romantic or otherwise) - she was sending a message, "Do your homework!" I'm on the fence about whether Hermione has romantic feelings for Harry. I don't think he has any for her as indicated by his Christmas gift - he feels she is just a friend, Ron views her as a girlfriend.
As for the Sun Sign of Leo - Neville is also a Leo. Hmmmm....
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Kasse - Aug 12, 2004 3:33 pm (#1918 of 2916)
Ron views her as a girl-Looney Luna
I do not think Ron Views Hermione as his girlfriend. He obviously likes her but he knows they are just friends.
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Upulwan - Aug 12, 2004 5:53 pm (#1919 of 2916)
Tracie,
First,when you say 'hidden clues' and mention 'hippogriff'(your August 1 post), what are you referring to? And the portkey essays, where are they? (I've read the one by Penny, is that what you mean?)
And I agree with you about how we have to put the interviews in context before holding them as articles of faith for one or other ship. Now I may be drawn and quatered for this but I think evidence for shipping is balanced in both R/Hr and H/Hr directions, when you add up all obvious, not so obvious and as-yet improbable clues for both, in interviews as well as the books. That in my opinion, can lead to one thing: conflict within the Trio.
In an interview ages ago (I think just before Phoenix was out) when she was asked about potential pairings, JKR said she has something planned from the beginning, and that a few fansites have skirted around it but no one came very close to it, and that she would be very annoyed if anyone guessed...(I'll try and find the exact quote if you wanna know) So given that we've all been fighting tooth and nail about both R/Hr and H/Hr quite loudly, neither of them can qualify as issues we have 'skirted around', can they? The only thing we haven't considered as fervently as one or other ship is that there might be a triangle, leading to some sort of choice/sacrifice etc as part of the main plot...and if that (or something like that)is the case then JKR has very good reason to be deliberately ambiguous in both interviews and canon clues ...
For the record, I'm a H/Hr shipper, and about Penny's essay, though she did bring up a lot of good points, I think many incidents were taken out of context. But that is not wholly her fault: I just feel JKR left all 'clues' quite carefully ambiguous, so we can interpret them either way..
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 6:27 pm (#1920 of 2916)
Oops, maybe Ron wants Hermione as a girlfriend, but doesn't quite know how to approach the subject with her. I agree, he likes her, but for now they are just friends.
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tracie1976 - Aug 12, 2004 6:50 pm (#1921 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Upulwan the site for the essays are at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . As for the hippogriff if you look at this site: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hopefully that helps you
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Upulwan - Aug 13, 2004 2:26 am (#1922 of 2916)
THANKS TRACIE!
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mike miller - Aug 13, 2004 11:50 am (#1923 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Fluviusi and Annika - Although I personally don't put much stock in Astology, I found interjecting that aspect into this thread refreshing. Thanks! The usual H/Hr versus R/Hr banter can get old sometimes.
Upulwan - I respectfully disagree with there being conflict ahead for our trio. (A very well though out post by the way) There will likely be some awkward moments as they sort things out. How do Ron and Hermione transform their friendship into something more. I see them becoming something like James/Lily and Sirius (yes I know the dangers of making comparisons across generations).
As far as Harry is concerned I think there are 4 leading canditates; Pansy if Marcus is right, Ginny Weasley, Susan Bones (long shot) and my favorite Tonks (after Harry's been an Auror for a few years and Voldemort is "just a memory").
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True Love - Aug 13, 2004 3:29 pm (#1924 of 2916)
I like the Harry/Tonks ship. After all, she can always make herself look like any of the other women in his life (although she would not have their personality). Could be fun! Remind you of a blue-skinned mutant?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 13, 2004 4:09 pm (#1925 of 2916)
Nah, Harry has gone by looks alone before, and that led to disaster. If he's going for a 'ship, he'll look deeper than just the looks.
Though he MIGHT find Tonks' ability to resemble other women... amusing...
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Sir Tornado - Aug 13, 2004 8:58 pm (#1926 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ok, It's a wonder that R/Hr 'Shippers haven't managed to win yet. There is so much evidence there which can be interpretated to R/Hr if you want to. Had I had so much evidence in the books for my 'Ship, I would've destroyed the opposition completely. Last night I started reading OotP from the 'Shipping point of view and here's what I found in Chapter 1 and 2.
1)When Harry is being attacked by Dementors, he thinks of both, Ron and Hermione together before conjuring patronus. This leads to 2 possible inferences.
a) Harry doesn't have any "more than Friendship" feelings towards Hermione.
b) He's already started to think Ron and Hermione of being together.
2) Harry is angry that he has been left at PD5 while Ron and Hermione are "having fun together". Inferences:
a) He would be angry if R/Hr started dating.
b) He thinks R/Hr have already started dating.
3) After Harry is attacked by Dementors, he writes letters. He names those in the following order; first to Sirius, second to Ron and third to Hermione. IMHO, Harry really doesn't pay any attention to the order in which he addresses the letters; and he addresses the last one to Hermione. He does it subconciously. We know at that time that Sirius was the most important person in Harry's life then. The second-most important one was Ron then. If he were intrested in Hermione, wouldn't his subconcious mind place her on the top of the list and he would write her name on the letter before Ron and Sirius?
4) The letters Ron and Hermione write to Harry can easily be interpreted to a different meaning if you want. "There's a fair amount going on but obviously we can't give you details..."
OK, you can ignore the 4th point if you want, but will someone please answer first 3 points? And it's surprising that R/Hr 'Shippers haven't mentioned this yet. And this was just in the first 2 chapters of OotP. I'll be posting for the next 2 on monday.
Thanks!
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Chris. - Aug 13, 2004 11:35 pm (#1927 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
He thought of Ron and Hermione because they are the most dearest people, except Sirius, that Harry had wanted to see. I don't think Harry thinks that Ron and Hermione have started dating. I think he realises there's something between them, but he would expect them to tell him, if they were dating.
) After Harry is attacked by Dementors, he writes letters. He names those in the following order; first to Sirius, second to Ron and third to Hermione. IMHO, Harry really doesn't pay any attention to the order in which he addresses the letters; and he addresses the last one to Hermione. He does it subconciously. We know at that time that Sirius was the most important person in Harry's life then. The second-most important one was Ron then. If he were intrested in Hermione, wouldn't his subconcious mind place her on the top of the list and he would write her name on the letter before Ron and Sirius?
Harry was in a state at the time of the letter-writing. Even if he were interested in Hermione, Sirius would always be Harry's first choice of who to write to.
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Archangel - Aug 13, 2004 11:47 pm (#1928 of 2916)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 14, 2004 12:09 am
Harry'll be fine if Ron and Hermione dated since he pretty much senses that Ron fancies Hermione. But will Ron be, if the reverse happens?
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Chris. - Aug 13, 2004 11:56 pm (#1929 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Archangel, I think he'd be pretty peeved at losing yet again. It may make him do something drastic.
Instead of Tonks being the girlfriend of Tonks, do you think he may get relationship advice from her?
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Archangel - Aug 14, 2004 12:16 am (#1930 of 2916)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Exactly Prongs. I'd imagine it would be quite devastating for him should it happen. I placed my complete thoughts on this on the Treason thread since it seems to be more appropriate there.
As for you question, I'm assuming you meant Harry for the second Tonks, my answer would be is "sure, why not". He seems to be pretty comfortable around her and he thinks she's fascinating being a metamorph-something. She could teach him how to dance and look like the girl of his dreams for all we know.
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mike miller - Aug 14, 2004 9:32 am (#1931 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
It would not surprise me at all for Harry to ask some relationship advice from Tonks. At least asking for some Hermione like explanation of whu girls behave the way they do. It's the combination of how comfortable Harry feels around Tonks and the way Tonks treats Harry as a real person not "The Boy Who Lived" that makes me feel that there will be something there down the road.
Harry will probably have a couple of more "flings" with some of the girls at Hogwarts during HbP and book 7, but nothing serious or long-term. There's just too much going on (and yet to happen) for Harry to get serious. Honestly, it could take several years for Haryy to "decompress" from defeating Voldemort. By that time, Harry will find that he has a true friend in Tonks. My guess is that we'll find out about Harry's life-long love in the epilogue.
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TomProffitt - Aug 14, 2004 10:17 am (#1932 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
"It's the combination of how comfortable Harry feels around Tonks and the way Tonks treats Harry as a real person not "The Boy Who Lived" that makes me feel that there will be something there down the road." -- mike miller
I think that Tonks really does treat Harry as you say, mike. Even his closest friends don't seem to treat quite as normal as Tonks do (really an intuitive thing on my part, would be quite difficult to research, I think). I'm not going to be supporting a Harry/Tonks 'ship, though, I think she's going to die. She has an unfortunate namesake.
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Chris. - Aug 14, 2004 4:14 pm (#1933 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
H/Hr 'shippers use the Hippogriff/Romance connection. Well, I have a Phoenix connection for H/G. It was Ginny and Harry in the Chamber, after all.
In Egyptian heiroglyphics, the phoenix image conveys the passage of time, and it remains a symbol of immortality today. Writers often use the pheonix as a symbol of undying love and loyalty.- Passage from 'The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter' by David Colbert. (Bold mine)
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tracie1976 - Aug 14, 2004 7:44 pm (#1934 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Fawkes was also at the Department of Mysteries when Dumbledore, Harry, Fudge, and others the night Sirius died. Are we going to have a big happy family between all of those?
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Ozymandias - Aug 14, 2004 11:24 pm (#1935 of 2916)
Nothing beside remains...
Good point Tracie, but it goes both ways. If the hippogriff connection is valid, then Harry's whole Care of Magical Creatures class will be sitting around the campfire holding hands and singing Kumbyah.
How do you spell Kumbayah anyway?
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Chris. - Aug 14, 2004 11:44 pm (#1936 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
CoS was the book that Fawkes was an important, as with Buckbeak in PA.
I didn't mean to imply that every scene that Fawkes appears in, the included characters are going to have relationships with each other.
As for your spelling query, there's quite a few different versions.
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total hatred - Aug 15, 2004 1:29 am (#1937 of 2916)
Prongs if the Phoenix is the symbol of eternal love and loyalty. I don't believe that R/H ship represent that. Even how mean Harry can get to Hermione, Hermione respect and loyalty is still unwavering. She is willing to risk anything to help Harry. I don't care what astrology has to say about the compability. That subject is not an exact science and uses lots of quesswork. I am more interested in how they compliment each other.
One of the reason why I think that R/H ship will not sail is the fact that Ron is a bit heartless. He severely lacks a trait that is crucial to a relationship that Harry actively posses. He fails to see the effects of his actions to other's feelings. He has some sort of tunnel vision. His head inflates easily.
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Chris. - Aug 15, 2004 5:17 am (#1938 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Er- total hatred, I was actually making a point for the H/G 'ship, not R/Hr.
I don't care what astrology has to say about the compability. That subject is not an exact science and uses lots of quesswork.- total hatred
I wasn't using astrology. If H/Hr 'shippers can use the "Hippogriff scenario", I think others are allowed to use similar theories.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 4:22 pm (#1939 of 2916)
I would direct everyone's attention to the Edinburgh chat. Once again, in my view, JKR has told us that she's made R/H about as plain as she can make it.
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The One - Aug 15, 2004 4:38 pm (#1940 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I would direct everyone's attention to the Edinburgh chat. Once again, in my view, JKR has told us that she's made R/H about as plain as she can make it.
Yes, she has made it quite plain, blatantly obvious in fact, only a fool can fail to see it. And just to make sure she has told us so in interviews. Quite inevitable in fact. But hold on for a second:
Will Ron and Hermione ever get together?
Well—[Laughter.] What do you think? [Audience member: I think they will]. I’m not going to say. I can’t say, can I? I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one.
Why, of all strange things, does she refuse to answer and asks us to read between the lines if it is so blatantly obvious?
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tracie1976 - Aug 15, 2004 4:46 pm (#1941 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
She wants us to read between the lines.
Definition of read between the lines from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] perceive or detect a hidden meaning read what is implied but not expressed on the surface see what is not written, read the implied message, find the hidden meaning
I think what she means by her quote today is to find the hidden clues that are not that obvious in the text IE: the hippogriff.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 5:11 pm (#1942 of 2916)
I haven't had a chance to peruse this "hippogriff theory."
However, the "between the lines" clues are many even without hippogriffs. My favorite is the fight after the ball. Next time there's a ball, Hermione says before storming off, ask her first and not as a last resort. Ron sputters and says Hermione missed the point. Harry wisely keeps his thoughts to himself, but thinks its Ron who missed the point. That coupled with the "Oh well spotted" fight before the ball is about as blatant as you can get short of H/R holding hands and sneaking off for midnight strolls a la Mr. & Mrs. Weasley years before.
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The One - Aug 15, 2004 5:20 pm (#1943 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
That coupled with the "Oh well spotted" fight before the ball is about as blatant as you can get.
Blatant and between the lines at the same time? I did not quite get that one.
A far better "between the lines" clue in my opinion: Hermione seems to be supportive about the Harry/Cho relationship, but reading between the lines you may realize that she is not happy about it at all.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 6:00 pm (#1944 of 2916)
My use of the word "blatant" was qualified by the "holding hands" example. And sure, there are varying degrees of hints dropped "between the lines" that range from extremely obscure right up to plainly stating what you mean. As I see it, the "hints" about R/H are about as close to a plain statement as you can get without plainly stating it.
Perhaps you could give me some examples of what there has been "between the lines" to show that Hermione was not really supportive of Harry/Cho? The only thing that comes to my mind was Hermione being the cause (directly or indirectly) of the Valentine day date to go so wrongly. Well, Hermione couldn't exactly bring Rita Skeeter to Hogwarts, could she? So, the meeting had to be in Hogsmead and she, Hermione, couldn't help it if the Hogsmead date coincided with Valentine's day.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 15, 2004 6:06 pm (#1945 of 2916)
That reminds me of one of the rules that I once read about the Harry Potter books, that there are no such things as coincidences.
Mark puts a bit of a hole in that rule, but it makes one wonder... what would have happened if the letter to Hermione (scheduling the interview date, no doubt) hadn't arrived before Valentines' Day?
Anyway, JKR 'hints' at all sorts of 'ships, any (but not all) of which might work. Ron and Hermione seems to me to be the most 'obvious' 'ship...
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 6:14 pm (#1946 of 2916)
Mark puts a bit of a hole in that rule, but it makes one wonder... what would have happened if the letter to Hermione (scheduling the interview date, no doubt) hadn't arrived before Valentines' Day? -- Paulus
Mark puts a big hole in that theory. I'm not a huge fan of the "Ultimate Guide" people anyway. (That's where the rule comes from I believe.) Moreover, I don't think Hermione had to wait for a letter from Rita "scheduling" anything. I get the impression that she "summoned" her there, as it were. Rita would had little choice but to do as Hermione wished.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 15, 2004 6:27 pm (#1947 of 2916)
"Hermione was tugging a letter from the beak of an unfamiliar brown owl as they sat down. 'And about time! If it hadn't come today... Listen, Harry, this is really important... Do you think you could meet me in the Three Broomsticks around midday?'"
If the letter hadn't come on Valentine's Day... what would have happened?
If the letter had nothing to do with that interview, why didn't Hermione tell Harry about the interview BEFORE the letter came? Even a day in advance?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 15, 2004 6:39 pm (#1948 of 2916)
Paulus Maximus - "Why didn't Hermione tell Harry about the interview BEFORE the letter came? Even a day in advance?"
My guess is that Hermione did not tell Harry because she thought he wouldn't give the interview to that Skeeter woman. Remember, Harry HATED Rita Skeeter from GoF for what she did to him and Hagrid.
Again, I take Harry at his word from GoF, "Hermione's not my girlfriend! We're just FRIENDS."
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 7:16 pm (#1949 of 2916)
If it hadn't come today... Listen, Harry, this is really important... Do you think you could meet me in the Three Broomsticks around midday?'"-- Paulus
Fair enough, I forgot that bit. However, I would think the letter was Rita confirming that she would show up on the date that Hermione told her to meet. (And not Rita "graciously" granting Hermione some time on short notice; Rita wasn't very busy, being unemployed and all.) This brings me back to my original point from a few posts back: I don't think Hermione set up the Rita meeting to foil Harry's date. Rather, Hogsmeade was her only opportunity to meet with Rita away from the castle and Umbridge.
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total hatred - Aug 15, 2004 8:49 pm (#1950 of 2916)
It is still feasible. Hermione understand how Cho thinks and she already guessed that the next logical thing Cho will do. After the kiss, what will be the next logical thing to do. Of course go dating each other since Valentine is near. I believed that Hermione unconciously tries to foil Harry's date in order for her to get Harry's full attention.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Practically perfect in every way
Ginny's birthday is aug 11 or july 11? if July 11 she is a cancer not a leo. Im a bit confused as diffeing dates on this thread.
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Padfoot - Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm (#1902 of 2916)
Ginny's birthday is August 11, according to JKR's website. So happy birthday Ginny!
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 11, 2004 1:31 pm (#1903 of 2916)
Aww.... Rons B-day (as said on this site) is March 1st, making him a little old Pisces like me! Anyway, here is a the Ron/Hermione hook up (done on MSN.com Astrology):
Piscean imagination and poetry provide needed relief to Virgoan common sense, broadening horizons which would otherwise become monotonous. These two individuals share an open-mindedness which would promote discovery, and they may find a way to be happy together. The Piscean can sense the Virgo's desires intuitively, which is ideal for their sex life. If the Virgoan respects the Fish's mysterious inner depths, he or she will derive great rewards from Pisces. A sense of love is one of the gifts both individuals possess.
I dont know if Ron truly has alot of Piscean traits, but I guess he could. Its all in the stars!
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Kasse - Aug 11, 2004 1:42 pm (#1904 of 2916)
Thank you Fluviusi
I found this match on the yahoo website and I think it describes R/Hr relationship perfectly I just had to put it up here.
Piscies/Virgo: When Virgo and Pisces join together in a love match, it generally makes for a healthy relationship. The two Signs are opposite one another within the Zodiac, and such Signs tend to be well balanced, one making up for qualities the other lacks. They are an easy-going, do-gooding duo, and often devote their time to helping others as well as one another. Each partner in this couple brings out the best aspects in the other.
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 11, 2004 1:52 pm (#1905 of 2916)
Yes, I do believe that that explanation is a little better than the one MSN provided. All the same, it sounds like astrology is behind a R/Hr relationship.
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True Love - Aug 11, 2004 5:22 pm (#1906 of 2916)
I can't see Harry with any of the women we have already seen. Ginny is too much like a sister-friend than girl-friend. Luna just seems to out-of-it. She is a funny type of girl - a sort of future Trelawny. I suspect Harry will be with someone other than those two, maybe someone from a different house to have his teen relationship with. I think in the end though, he will remain a bachelor and not have a serious relationship with anyone.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 11, 2004 9:31 pm (#1907 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Zhigulii - belated happy birthday to you and your wife. Also, Happy Birthday Ginny.
Well, I'm glad to have something not seen on this thread before; But I really don't think JKR will decide relationships based on their Star signs. Actually, if you look at the Zodiac rationally, you'll notice that it is a load of rubbish. More than 10 billion people around the world have the same Star Signs. Does it imply that they have the same personalities and futures? No. Me and my uncle have our birthdays on the same day, (Sept 28) still, we have very different personalities.
Now, to change the topic a bit, what do you think of Love potions? We have heard of the love potions thrice; in CoS, PoA and GoF. Will it actually make an appearance? If it does, will it help towards sailing any 'Ship? What doy you all think?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 12, 2004 12:25 am (#1908 of 2916)
"All the same, it sounds like astrology is behind a R/Hr relationship"
And Hermione doesn't care much for astrology, or divination in general...
Of course, her attitude toward Ron matches her attitude toward astrology perfectly...
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 12, 2004 6:32 am (#1909 of 2916)
Sorry for trying to bring something somewhat interesting into the 'ship thread.
Tornedo~~ I could only imagine that JKR could not have thought about star signs at all when assigning birthdays, but none the less, astrology always interested me, and I was bored yesterday. I know that it is highly unlikely to really effect people in real life (or the fictional one) and that alot of what astrology says about a certain group can stretch over many many people. It just interests me. Like Harry Potter. Hes not real, but we talk about him to no end.
Sorry, I thought people would get a kind of kick out of the astrology thing, not just tell me their feelings on astrology in general. Eh.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 7:30 am (#1910 of 2916)
Hi all! I'm fairly new, and would like to add my two knuts to the discussion (apologies if this has been discussed previously).
I don't know who Harry will end up with, but I don't think it will be Hermione. Several times in the GoF, he states, "Hermione's not my girlfriend, we're just friends." I'm taking Harry at his word on this one. Hermione is one of Harry's best friends, and I don't see him thinking of her in any other way - he asks for her advice on romantic issues. I think that whomever Harry does end up with, she'll have to accept Hermione as Harry's friend and not be jealous of her (like Cho). I also think Harry grows tired of Hermione's nagging, where Ron lets it roll off his back.
About the Christmas presents in OotP, Harry gives Hermione a book, something you'd give a friend. Ron gives Hermione perfume, something you give a girlfriend. What's really funny is that Hermione gives them both homework planners (she wants them to do better).
Regardless of who Harry dates, I hope he dates someone that is nice and experiences some romantic love. He needs some happiness in his life!
Do you think Hagrid will find a "lady friend" for Grawp?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 12, 2004 8:47 am (#1911 of 2916)
I don't buy this astrology thing for HP characters. Considering how much JKR makes fun of Trelawney's astronomy, what are the chances she would decide to have zodiac signs affect her characters.
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Kasse - Aug 12, 2004 9:00 am (#1912 of 2916)
True she does make fun of Divination but she does take astrology quite seriously - the whole "Mars is bright" which means the second war is on it's way and so forth, that is an important part in the book IMO
On a side note please do not think that I was trying to suggest the JKR is having zodiac signs affect her characters. I was merely trying to keep an open mind and look at the ships from a perspective that had not been explored before on this thread.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 11:04 am (#1913 of 2916)
I think looking at the relationships astrologically is fun. Harry and Ginny are both Leos. Leo=Lion=Gryffindor.
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Fluviusi Saepio - Aug 12, 2004 12:04 pm (#1914 of 2916)
Jolly good observation Looney!
I also was not saying that JKR had any intentions on focusing on astrology at all when designing charactors.
I really wish I had OotP to quote exactly what Firenze has to say about the subject of future gazing and the stars and all that. Something to the effect that it can be helpful but even the cenataurs (who are far more intelligent in this field) sometimes misintepret what the stars have to say.
Oh by the way, I definatly think Snape needs to hook up with someone. Come to think of it, how come none of the proffesors have any sort of wives/husbands? Or do we just not know about them?
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Czarina II - Aug 12, 2004 1:46 pm (#1915 of 2916)
About the Christmas presents. It's true that Hermione gives both boys homework planners, while their gifts to her are more indicative of their respective feelings for her (IMHO). But I don't think this is because she doesn't have romantic feelings for either of them. I think she likes Ron (again, IMHO), but how would it look for her to buy something special for him and not Harry? She wouldn't think it was fair. And what do you get a teenage boy that you like for Christmas when you're fifteen, anyway? (Of course, something that he actually would LIKE would be a start, but I am not Hermione.)
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Annika - Aug 12, 2004 2:06 pm (#1916 of 2916)
I find looking at the relationships through astrology interesting and fun. Here is one I found (I have editted out the unsuitable content and length). Notice the the prevelance of royalty!
Leo the Lion is the monarch of the zodiac, so the royal match is eagerly observed by lesser folk, since it's on display for all to see. The Sun rules Leo so the central star of our solar system, the ruler of the heart, shines grandly on your love.
You'll love your regal partner's grand sense of social awareness, fondness for society and natural ability to take command. So much like you! Leo can be bossy, vain and demanding, Leo can be possessive (out of pride and needing to be the centre of attention).
This relationship will be potentially long-lasting, particularly if you can find external interests in common, for the two of you can be very stubborn and mighty determined to get your own way. Understand each others strengths and weaknesses (for they are your own) and nothing will stop you.
Tornedo: Studing astrology involves more than just your birthday, but the time, year and planetary alignments during the exact moment of your birth. So in each year there are 525,600 minutes, hence an equal number of different astrological profiles.
Annika
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 2:56 pm (#1917 of 2916)
Hi Czarina!
Hermione has bought Harry personal/personalized gifts in the past, i.e., the broomstick polishing kit (a birthday present, I think), which Harry was in awe over. I think for the OotP Christmas, she bought them both the same gift only because they were always behind on their homework, not that she was trying to spare anyone's feelings (romantic or otherwise) - she was sending a message, "Do your homework!" I'm on the fence about whether Hermione has romantic feelings for Harry. I don't think he has any for her as indicated by his Christmas gift - he feels she is just a friend, Ron views her as a girlfriend.
As for the Sun Sign of Leo - Neville is also a Leo. Hmmmm....
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Kasse - Aug 12, 2004 3:33 pm (#1918 of 2916)
Ron views her as a girl-Looney Luna
I do not think Ron Views Hermione as his girlfriend. He obviously likes her but he knows they are just friends.
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Upulwan - Aug 12, 2004 5:53 pm (#1919 of 2916)
Tracie,
First,when you say 'hidden clues' and mention 'hippogriff'(your August 1 post), what are you referring to? And the portkey essays, where are they? (I've read the one by Penny, is that what you mean?)
And I agree with you about how we have to put the interviews in context before holding them as articles of faith for one or other ship. Now I may be drawn and quatered for this but I think evidence for shipping is balanced in both R/Hr and H/Hr directions, when you add up all obvious, not so obvious and as-yet improbable clues for both, in interviews as well as the books. That in my opinion, can lead to one thing: conflict within the Trio.
In an interview ages ago (I think just before Phoenix was out) when she was asked about potential pairings, JKR said she has something planned from the beginning, and that a few fansites have skirted around it but no one came very close to it, and that she would be very annoyed if anyone guessed...(I'll try and find the exact quote if you wanna know) So given that we've all been fighting tooth and nail about both R/Hr and H/Hr quite loudly, neither of them can qualify as issues we have 'skirted around', can they? The only thing we haven't considered as fervently as one or other ship is that there might be a triangle, leading to some sort of choice/sacrifice etc as part of the main plot...and if that (or something like that)is the case then JKR has very good reason to be deliberately ambiguous in both interviews and canon clues ...
For the record, I'm a H/Hr shipper, and about Penny's essay, though she did bring up a lot of good points, I think many incidents were taken out of context. But that is not wholly her fault: I just feel JKR left all 'clues' quite carefully ambiguous, so we can interpret them either way..
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LooneyLuna - Aug 12, 2004 6:27 pm (#1920 of 2916)
Oops, maybe Ron wants Hermione as a girlfriend, but doesn't quite know how to approach the subject with her. I agree, he likes her, but for now they are just friends.
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tracie1976 - Aug 12, 2004 6:50 pm (#1921 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Upulwan the site for the essays are at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] . As for the hippogriff if you look at this site: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hopefully that helps you
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Upulwan - Aug 13, 2004 2:26 am (#1922 of 2916)
THANKS TRACIE!
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mike miller - Aug 13, 2004 11:50 am (#1923 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Fluviusi and Annika - Although I personally don't put much stock in Astology, I found interjecting that aspect into this thread refreshing. Thanks! The usual H/Hr versus R/Hr banter can get old sometimes.
Upulwan - I respectfully disagree with there being conflict ahead for our trio. (A very well though out post by the way) There will likely be some awkward moments as they sort things out. How do Ron and Hermione transform their friendship into something more. I see them becoming something like James/Lily and Sirius (yes I know the dangers of making comparisons across generations).
As far as Harry is concerned I think there are 4 leading canditates; Pansy if Marcus is right, Ginny Weasley, Susan Bones (long shot) and my favorite Tonks (after Harry's been an Auror for a few years and Voldemort is "just a memory").
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True Love - Aug 13, 2004 3:29 pm (#1924 of 2916)
I like the Harry/Tonks ship. After all, she can always make herself look like any of the other women in his life (although she would not have their personality). Could be fun! Remind you of a blue-skinned mutant?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 13, 2004 4:09 pm (#1925 of 2916)
Nah, Harry has gone by looks alone before, and that led to disaster. If he's going for a 'ship, he'll look deeper than just the looks.
Though he MIGHT find Tonks' ability to resemble other women... amusing...
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Sir Tornado - Aug 13, 2004 8:58 pm (#1926 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ok, It's a wonder that R/Hr 'Shippers haven't managed to win yet. There is so much evidence there which can be interpretated to R/Hr if you want to. Had I had so much evidence in the books for my 'Ship, I would've destroyed the opposition completely. Last night I started reading OotP from the 'Shipping point of view and here's what I found in Chapter 1 and 2.
1)When Harry is being attacked by Dementors, he thinks of both, Ron and Hermione together before conjuring patronus. This leads to 2 possible inferences.
a) Harry doesn't have any "more than Friendship" feelings towards Hermione.
b) He's already started to think Ron and Hermione of being together.
2) Harry is angry that he has been left at PD5 while Ron and Hermione are "having fun together". Inferences:
a) He would be angry if R/Hr started dating.
b) He thinks R/Hr have already started dating.
3) After Harry is attacked by Dementors, he writes letters. He names those in the following order; first to Sirius, second to Ron and third to Hermione. IMHO, Harry really doesn't pay any attention to the order in which he addresses the letters; and he addresses the last one to Hermione. He does it subconciously. We know at that time that Sirius was the most important person in Harry's life then. The second-most important one was Ron then. If he were intrested in Hermione, wouldn't his subconcious mind place her on the top of the list and he would write her name on the letter before Ron and Sirius?
4) The letters Ron and Hermione write to Harry can easily be interpreted to a different meaning if you want. "There's a fair amount going on but obviously we can't give you details..."
OK, you can ignore the 4th point if you want, but will someone please answer first 3 points? And it's surprising that R/Hr 'Shippers haven't mentioned this yet. And this was just in the first 2 chapters of OotP. I'll be posting for the next 2 on monday.
Thanks!
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Chris. - Aug 13, 2004 11:35 pm (#1927 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
He thought of Ron and Hermione because they are the most dearest people, except Sirius, that Harry had wanted to see. I don't think Harry thinks that Ron and Hermione have started dating. I think he realises there's something between them, but he would expect them to tell him, if they were dating.
) After Harry is attacked by Dementors, he writes letters. He names those in the following order; first to Sirius, second to Ron and third to Hermione. IMHO, Harry really doesn't pay any attention to the order in which he addresses the letters; and he addresses the last one to Hermione. He does it subconciously. We know at that time that Sirius was the most important person in Harry's life then. The second-most important one was Ron then. If he were intrested in Hermione, wouldn't his subconcious mind place her on the top of the list and he would write her name on the letter before Ron and Sirius?
Harry was in a state at the time of the letter-writing. Even if he were interested in Hermione, Sirius would always be Harry's first choice of who to write to.
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Archangel - Aug 13, 2004 11:47 pm (#1928 of 2916)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 14, 2004 12:09 am
Harry'll be fine if Ron and Hermione dated since he pretty much senses that Ron fancies Hermione. But will Ron be, if the reverse happens?
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Chris. - Aug 13, 2004 11:56 pm (#1929 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Archangel, I think he'd be pretty peeved at losing yet again. It may make him do something drastic.
Instead of Tonks being the girlfriend of Tonks, do you think he may get relationship advice from her?
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Archangel - Aug 14, 2004 12:16 am (#1930 of 2916)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Exactly Prongs. I'd imagine it would be quite devastating for him should it happen. I placed my complete thoughts on this on the Treason thread since it seems to be more appropriate there.
As for you question, I'm assuming you meant Harry for the second Tonks, my answer would be is "sure, why not". He seems to be pretty comfortable around her and he thinks she's fascinating being a metamorph-something. She could teach him how to dance and look like the girl of his dreams for all we know.
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mike miller - Aug 14, 2004 9:32 am (#1931 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
It would not surprise me at all for Harry to ask some relationship advice from Tonks. At least asking for some Hermione like explanation of whu girls behave the way they do. It's the combination of how comfortable Harry feels around Tonks and the way Tonks treats Harry as a real person not "The Boy Who Lived" that makes me feel that there will be something there down the road.
Harry will probably have a couple of more "flings" with some of the girls at Hogwarts during HbP and book 7, but nothing serious or long-term. There's just too much going on (and yet to happen) for Harry to get serious. Honestly, it could take several years for Haryy to "decompress" from defeating Voldemort. By that time, Harry will find that he has a true friend in Tonks. My guess is that we'll find out about Harry's life-long love in the epilogue.
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TomProffitt - Aug 14, 2004 10:17 am (#1932 of 2916)
Bullheaded empiricist
"It's the combination of how comfortable Harry feels around Tonks and the way Tonks treats Harry as a real person not "The Boy Who Lived" that makes me feel that there will be something there down the road." -- mike miller
I think that Tonks really does treat Harry as you say, mike. Even his closest friends don't seem to treat quite as normal as Tonks do (really an intuitive thing on my part, would be quite difficult to research, I think). I'm not going to be supporting a Harry/Tonks 'ship, though, I think she's going to die. She has an unfortunate namesake.
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Chris. - Aug 14, 2004 4:14 pm (#1933 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
H/Hr 'shippers use the Hippogriff/Romance connection. Well, I have a Phoenix connection for H/G. It was Ginny and Harry in the Chamber, after all.
In Egyptian heiroglyphics, the phoenix image conveys the passage of time, and it remains a symbol of immortality today. Writers often use the pheonix as a symbol of undying love and loyalty.- Passage from 'The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter' by David Colbert. (Bold mine)
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tracie1976 - Aug 14, 2004 7:44 pm (#1934 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Fawkes was also at the Department of Mysteries when Dumbledore, Harry, Fudge, and others the night Sirius died. Are we going to have a big happy family between all of those?
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Ozymandias - Aug 14, 2004 11:24 pm (#1935 of 2916)
Nothing beside remains...
Good point Tracie, but it goes both ways. If the hippogriff connection is valid, then Harry's whole Care of Magical Creatures class will be sitting around the campfire holding hands and singing Kumbyah.
How do you spell Kumbayah anyway?
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Chris. - Aug 14, 2004 11:44 pm (#1936 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
CoS was the book that Fawkes was an important, as with Buckbeak in PA.
I didn't mean to imply that every scene that Fawkes appears in, the included characters are going to have relationships with each other.
As for your spelling query, there's quite a few different versions.
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total hatred - Aug 15, 2004 1:29 am (#1937 of 2916)
Prongs if the Phoenix is the symbol of eternal love and loyalty. I don't believe that R/H ship represent that. Even how mean Harry can get to Hermione, Hermione respect and loyalty is still unwavering. She is willing to risk anything to help Harry. I don't care what astrology has to say about the compability. That subject is not an exact science and uses lots of quesswork. I am more interested in how they compliment each other.
One of the reason why I think that R/H ship will not sail is the fact that Ron is a bit heartless. He severely lacks a trait that is crucial to a relationship that Harry actively posses. He fails to see the effects of his actions to other's feelings. He has some sort of tunnel vision. His head inflates easily.
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Chris. - Aug 15, 2004 5:17 am (#1938 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Er- total hatred, I was actually making a point for the H/G 'ship, not R/Hr.
I don't care what astrology has to say about the compability. That subject is not an exact science and uses lots of quesswork.- total hatred
I wasn't using astrology. If H/Hr 'shippers can use the "Hippogriff scenario", I think others are allowed to use similar theories.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 4:22 pm (#1939 of 2916)
I would direct everyone's attention to the Edinburgh chat. Once again, in my view, JKR has told us that she's made R/H about as plain as she can make it.
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The One - Aug 15, 2004 4:38 pm (#1940 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I would direct everyone's attention to the Edinburgh chat. Once again, in my view, JKR has told us that she's made R/H about as plain as she can make it.
Yes, she has made it quite plain, blatantly obvious in fact, only a fool can fail to see it. And just to make sure she has told us so in interviews. Quite inevitable in fact. But hold on for a second:
Will Ron and Hermione ever get together?
Well—[Laughter.] What do you think? [Audience member: I think they will]. I’m not going to say. I can’t say, can I? I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one.
Why, of all strange things, does she refuse to answer and asks us to read between the lines if it is so blatantly obvious?
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tracie1976 - Aug 15, 2004 4:46 pm (#1941 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
She wants us to read between the lines.
Definition of read between the lines from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] perceive or detect a hidden meaning read what is implied but not expressed on the surface see what is not written, read the implied message, find the hidden meaning
I think what she means by her quote today is to find the hidden clues that are not that obvious in the text IE: the hippogriff.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 5:11 pm (#1942 of 2916)
I haven't had a chance to peruse this "hippogriff theory."
However, the "between the lines" clues are many even without hippogriffs. My favorite is the fight after the ball. Next time there's a ball, Hermione says before storming off, ask her first and not as a last resort. Ron sputters and says Hermione missed the point. Harry wisely keeps his thoughts to himself, but thinks its Ron who missed the point. That coupled with the "Oh well spotted" fight before the ball is about as blatant as you can get short of H/R holding hands and sneaking off for midnight strolls a la Mr. & Mrs. Weasley years before.
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The One - Aug 15, 2004 5:20 pm (#1943 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
That coupled with the "Oh well spotted" fight before the ball is about as blatant as you can get.
Blatant and between the lines at the same time? I did not quite get that one.
A far better "between the lines" clue in my opinion: Hermione seems to be supportive about the Harry/Cho relationship, but reading between the lines you may realize that she is not happy about it at all.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 6:00 pm (#1944 of 2916)
My use of the word "blatant" was qualified by the "holding hands" example. And sure, there are varying degrees of hints dropped "between the lines" that range from extremely obscure right up to plainly stating what you mean. As I see it, the "hints" about R/H are about as close to a plain statement as you can get without plainly stating it.
Perhaps you could give me some examples of what there has been "between the lines" to show that Hermione was not really supportive of Harry/Cho? The only thing that comes to my mind was Hermione being the cause (directly or indirectly) of the Valentine day date to go so wrongly. Well, Hermione couldn't exactly bring Rita Skeeter to Hogwarts, could she? So, the meeting had to be in Hogsmead and she, Hermione, couldn't help it if the Hogsmead date coincided with Valentine's day.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 15, 2004 6:06 pm (#1945 of 2916)
That reminds me of one of the rules that I once read about the Harry Potter books, that there are no such things as coincidences.
Mark puts a bit of a hole in that rule, but it makes one wonder... what would have happened if the letter to Hermione (scheduling the interview date, no doubt) hadn't arrived before Valentines' Day?
Anyway, JKR 'hints' at all sorts of 'ships, any (but not all) of which might work. Ron and Hermione seems to me to be the most 'obvious' 'ship...
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 6:14 pm (#1946 of 2916)
Mark puts a bit of a hole in that rule, but it makes one wonder... what would have happened if the letter to Hermione (scheduling the interview date, no doubt) hadn't arrived before Valentines' Day? -- Paulus
Mark puts a big hole in that theory. I'm not a huge fan of the "Ultimate Guide" people anyway. (That's where the rule comes from I believe.) Moreover, I don't think Hermione had to wait for a letter from Rita "scheduling" anything. I get the impression that she "summoned" her there, as it were. Rita would had little choice but to do as Hermione wished.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 15, 2004 6:27 pm (#1947 of 2916)
"Hermione was tugging a letter from the beak of an unfamiliar brown owl as they sat down. 'And about time! If it hadn't come today... Listen, Harry, this is really important... Do you think you could meet me in the Three Broomsticks around midday?'"
If the letter hadn't come on Valentine's Day... what would have happened?
If the letter had nothing to do with that interview, why didn't Hermione tell Harry about the interview BEFORE the letter came? Even a day in advance?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 15, 2004 6:39 pm (#1948 of 2916)
Paulus Maximus - "Why didn't Hermione tell Harry about the interview BEFORE the letter came? Even a day in advance?"
My guess is that Hermione did not tell Harry because she thought he wouldn't give the interview to that Skeeter woman. Remember, Harry HATED Rita Skeeter from GoF for what she did to him and Hagrid.
Again, I take Harry at his word from GoF, "Hermione's not my girlfriend! We're just FRIENDS."
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 15, 2004 7:16 pm (#1949 of 2916)
If it hadn't come today... Listen, Harry, this is really important... Do you think you could meet me in the Three Broomsticks around midday?'"-- Paulus
Fair enough, I forgot that bit. However, I would think the letter was Rita confirming that she would show up on the date that Hermione told her to meet. (And not Rita "graciously" granting Hermione some time on short notice; Rita wasn't very busy, being unemployed and all.) This brings me back to my original point from a few posts back: I don't think Hermione set up the Rita meeting to foil Harry's date. Rather, Hogsmeade was her only opportunity to meet with Rita away from the castle and Umbridge.
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total hatred - Aug 15, 2004 8:49 pm (#1950 of 2916)
It is still feasible. Hermione understand how Cho thinks and she already guessed that the next logical thing Cho will do. After the kiss, what will be the next logical thing to do. Of course go dating each other since Valentine is near. I believed that Hermione unconciously tries to foil Harry's date in order for her to get Harry's full attention.
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The One - Aug 15, 2004 11:25 pm (#1951 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Perhaps you could give me some examples of what there has been "between the lines" to show that Hermione was not really supportive of Harry/Cho?
Hermione’s reactions to the Harry/Cho relationship is interpreted by many as showing her trying to conceal jealousy because of:
She asks Harry about it several times, knowing far more about Cho than Ron or even Harry himself. Many will recognise this as keeping an eye on the competition.
Despite this interest she busies herself with the Krum letter, being businesslike, brisk, and absentminded after having forced Harry to tell about the kiss. Does she act in this way in order to hide her true feelings about the kiss?
Despite Harry’s love life generally getting a surprisingly amount of attention from Hermione, she also allows herself to be distracted from Harry’s tale by telling of Ron for what appears to be not very good reasons. The look of disgust, the “Most insensitive wart” comment, and “the emotionally range of a teaspoon” comment are by many interpreted as Hermione venting her frustration over the Harry/Cho relationship on poor Ron.
Many also wonders why she asks “brightly” about how the date went, when she must have realized it was a disaster.
I would be surprised if not most of the readers here have seen these points earlier. Some of you believe in them, others do not. But if this interpretation does hold water, they fit the “read between the lines” statement perfectly. For those of us who believed in the H/Hr ship before the chat, the last chat gives us no reason to abandon ship. Quite the opposite in fact, since so many claims that R/Hr is so obvious, and the person asking seemed to be among them, the quote actually increases our confidence.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 16, 2004 3:18 am (#1952 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I don't think Hermione spoiled Harry/Cho date. If she did, I'll really hate her. BTW, a happy Independence day to all Indians and Koreans.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 6:07 am (#1953 of 2916)
Don't forget that Hogsmead weekends are few and far between. Hermione didn't have too many options of having Harry meet with Rita. I think Dumbledore had banned Rita from the Hogwarts grounds in GoF, and I'm sure Umbridge wouldn't take kindly to having Harry give Rita an interview at the school. I don't think that Hermione was trying to sabotage Harry's date with Cho. I also think that Hermione was jealous of Cho, but still wanted Harry to be happy. That's why she helped him, but wasn't "Miss Mary Sunshine" when she did.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 16, 2004 6:30 am (#1954 of 2916)
Hermione didn't have too many options of having Harry meet with Rita. I think Dumbledore had banned Rita from the Hogwarts grounds in GoF, and I'm sure Umbridge wouldn't take kindly to having Harry give Rita an interview at the school.-- LooneyLuna
That's what I said, but you managed to do it in a couple sentences. Take 10 points.
With all due respect to the examples above, I suppose you could choose to read into them some hidden motives of Hermione's. However, her motives and feelings seemed to be quite clear after the Yule Ball fight.
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Catherine - Aug 16, 2004 6:54 am (#1955 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
I went back and looked at the Hippogriff theory.
I think it's interesting, but I don't read into it that a Harry/Hermione romantic relationship is on the horizon. I do think that Harry loves Hermione, but I think it's more like a sister. JKR has stated that they have a very platonic relationship.
When I looked up hippogriffs, what struck me most was that griffins and horses are supposed to be mortal enemies, so that the hippogriff comes to be an emblem of the impossible. Sort of like, "When mares and griffins get together..." or "when pigs fly" kind of thing.
But Tracie's post about hippogriffs has definitely got me thinking in general.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 7:18 am (#1956 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I also think that Hermione was jealous of Cho, but still wanted Harry to be happy. That's why she helped him, but wasn't "Miss Mary Sunshine" when she did.
That is exactly how I interpret Hermione in this situation. I do not believe that she sabotaged the Valentine date on purpose.
As for the Yule Ball fight, I take Hemione's remark to mean: "If you are such a looser that you cannot even invite a girl to the ball, that is yours problem, not mine." It is possible to interpret something more into it, I agree, but I see no need to do so.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 7:18 am (#1957 of 2916)
Thanks, LoopyLupin!
When I said Hermione was jealous of Cho, I didn't mean it so much in a romantic way. Old friends can get jealous of new friends regardless of gender. I think Hermione is very protective of Harry - over-protective at times, but she still wants him to be happy. Again, I take Harry at his word regarding Hermione.
In the PoA movie, did anyone notice the parallels between Pansy P. fawning over Draco's injured arm and then Hermione fawning over Ron's bitten leg? I thought Ron rather enjoyed Hermione's attention there.
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tracie1976 - Aug 16, 2004 7:22 am (#1958 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
dances....yea I got someone thinking!!!* lol
As for Rita's interview in OotP, I think Hermione could have gotten Rita onto Hogwart's grounds instead of Valentine's Day. Remember, Rita is an unregistered animagus, she could have used her form of the beatle to get there and Hermione could have simplied had Rita meet Harry and herself somewhere without anyone knowing. Harry and Hermione could have just been walking around the lake talking, with a bug following them. So I do believe Hermione planned it that way either conciously or subcounciously messing up Harry's date.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 7:28 am (#1959 of 2916)
I think Hermione learned her lesson about being overheard at the Hogs Head and that's why she had them all meet at the 3 Broomsticks - they would not be overheard. Rita asked a lot of questions, could she do that while a beetle?
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 16, 2004 7:31 am (#1960 of 2916)
As for the Yule Ball fight, I take Hemione's remark to mean: "If you are such a looser that you cannot even invite a girl to the ball, that is yours problem, not mine." It is possible to interpret something more into it, I agree, but I see no need to do so. -- The One
Well, I take it to mean what she says which is to ask her first and not as a last resort.
Tracie-- Having Rita fly onto the grounds would have been a possibility. However, I can't see Hermione suggesting that Rita break the law for this meeting. Being an unregistered animagus is exactly the thing Hermione "busted" Rita for, so it would be a little hypocritical to say, "Well, just bug out and come on over because I need to talk to you."
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 7:40 am (#1961 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
LooneyLuna
When I said Hermione was jealous of Cho, I didn't mean it so much in a romantic way. Old friends can get jealous of new friends regardless of gender.
That is true. But we can at least agree on seeing signs of Hermione being more jealous than she wants to admit, and disagree upon why?
As for Hermione messing up Harry's date on purpose, I believe that she would not do that. Assuming that she has a crush on him that he does not seem to return at the moment, I think that Hermione is logical enough not to want to ruin their friendship by stupid jealousy. She really and honestly tries to support him, but being only human she is unable to completely hide that she does not like it.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 7:53 am (#1962 of 2916)
I agree that Hermione was jealous and didn't want to admit it. Maybe she does have feelings for Harry other than a friendship. Or, Hermione thought of Cho as a rival for Harry's attention. If Harry is spending time with Cho, that's less time for Hermione. And since Hermione is friends with Ginny, Hermione doesn't think of Ginny as a rival or competition.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 8:37 am (#1963 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Well, I take it to mean what she says which is to ask her first and not as a last resort.
Yes, Actually I agree on this, but isn't that a good way to treat any girl? Will inviting a girl to a ball have to mean that you regard her as a girl friend? And will not the girl feel honored to be treated as a first choice, even if she does not regard the invitation as the start of a relationship? And does not the fact that Ron far from honored Hermione in this way, mean that he has no right to complain?
Basicly what Hermione says is that it is no point in being jealous when he does not even treat her properly, but I fail to see that as a promise that she will enter a relationship with him as soon as he does so.
I fail to see that if a girl wants to be recognized as a girl and treated as a girl by her male friends that means that she is in love with any of them.
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Star Crossed - Aug 16, 2004 11:10 am (#1964 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Okay, just last year I had a crush on a boy who sat behind me in homeroom. Since he sat directly behind me, we talked a lot. During most of my crush, he liked this one girl, and asked me what I should do. I told him to ask her out, but I made it very obvious that I did not want him to. He did. They went out. A month into it, they started having problems, so, he talked to me about it. I gave him more advicem again making it very obvious I did not want to talk about his love life.
Whenever I read post-Harry's date, when he talks to Hermione, I read Hermione's reactions, and cannot compare it to how I acted. And there was only a year's difference between us at the time. Hermione is very bright, but she tends to wear her emotions on her sleeves, unless she's in control over her emotions. If she does, she tries to give clues about how she feels. Like when she tried to get Harry and Ron to figure out what Remus really was. I don't think her being bright about it was a clue. I don't see "Harry, I'll pretend to be happy despite I knew your date was awful, just so I seem like I don't care, when in fact, I love you so much, I worship the ground you walk on.", rather, I see, "Finally that boy is dating. I hope it went well. Oh dear, it doesn't look like it did. I'll have to talk to him about it later."
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 16, 2004 12:10 pm (#1965 of 2916)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
When you check on the forum and there are NO New yellow dots, except for the 'ship thread, which you Never read!
Then you grab a butterbeer and start reading...
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 16, 2004 12:21 pm (#1966 of 2916)
"Finally that boy is dating. I hope it went well. Oh dear, it doesn't look like it did. I'll have to talk to him about it later." -- Star Crossed
That sums it up very nicely.
Basicly what Hermione says is that it is no point in being jealous when he does not even treat her properly, but I fail to see that as a promise that she will enter a relationship with him as soon as he does so. -- The One
The key word there is "jealous." Anyway, no one said Hermione is saying if Ron would have asked her to the dance, they'd be "going steady."
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 2:17 pm (#1967 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Whenever I read post-Harry's date, when he talks to Hermione, I read Hermione's reactions, and cannot compare it to how I acted.
Different people, different reactions, different experiences. I have no problem recognizing myself from similar situations in Hermione's actions. So to me my interpretation make very much sense.
"Finally that boy is dating. I hope it went well. Oh dear, it doesn't look like it did. I'll have to talk to him about it later."
She did not wait until later, she talked with him there:
Monday night after Valentines day:
Cho Chang walked into the Hall with her friend Marietta. Harry's stomach gave an unpleasant lurch, but she did not look over at the Gryffindor table, and sat down with her back to him.
'Oh, I forgot to ask you', said Hermione brightly, glancing over at the Ravenclaw table, 'what happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'
'Er... well, it was...' said Harry, pulling a dish of rhubarb crumble towards him and helping himself to seconds, 'a complete fiasco, now you mention it.'
And he told her what had happened in Madam Puddifoot's teashop.
'Oh, Harry' she said sadly. 'Well, I'm sorry, but you were a bit tactless.'
My interpretation: Hermione understands that the date probably was a fiasco. She feels happy about, but at the same time she is a little ashamed, because she should feel sorry for Harry. She wants to know how bad it was and starts asking. She starts out being "bright", but as the conversion progress manages to control herself and appears to be sad and supporting.
The key word there is "jealous."
I did not quite get the point here. Hermione understands that Ron is jealous, but does that mean that she have, or later will, fallen in love? Or is there something else I do not get?
Anyway, no one said Hermione is saying if Ron would have asked her to the dance, they'd be "going steady."
That is right, but exactly what does she say except that when he did no invite her, he has no right to complain?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 16, 2004 5:52 pm (#1968 of 2916)
"Hermione understands that the date probably was a fiasco."
I agree. Harry voiced his concern that he might have to spend the whole day with Cho, and then he turned up at the 3 Broomsticks early, and without Cho. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what had happened, and Hermione IS a genius...
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Hermy-own - Aug 16, 2004 10:15 pm (#1969 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Hermione's reaction to Harry/Cho did strike me as peculiar but I don't think her jealousy (if there is any) is due to any romantic inclinations towards Harry.
If jealousy is implicated I think it's more likely to be associated with the fear of losing Harry as her best friend. The possibility of Harry gaining another "best" friend, in addition to herself and Ron, would have made her uncomfortable (IMHO), hence the peculiar reaction.
EDIT:
"Then you grab a butterbeer and start reading..." - Twinkling Blue Eyes
lol!
(If you were being serious, where do you get your butterbeer from? I'd love to try some)
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Hermy-own - Aug 16, 2004 10:34 pm (#1970 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
I'm just correcting myself on something I said before:
"After all, JKR has said Harry will kiss someone in HBP" - post #1865
JKR used the word "snog" which is certainly more romantic than a kiss (e.g. the kisses Hermione gave Harry/Ron on the cheek)
Sorry to bring back old posts but I think I was unclear and confused a few people. Plus, I've been on vacation so haven't visited the forum for a while.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 16, 2004 11:51 pm (#1971 of 2916)
"Hermione's reaction to Harry/Cho did strike me as peculiar but I don't think her jealousy (if there is any) is due to any romantic inclinations towards Harry"
Strikes me as peculiar too but I actually don't think there's any jealousy involved. I actually think that she thinks Ron and Harry are hopeless with girls and won't get it anytime soon so she is torn between saying what she really wanted to say "well I knew you would screw up" and being supportive and sounding sad and somewhat shocked. Or perhaps, she knows that Ginny really only likes Harry and wants to get Harry to give up on Cho. Who knows.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 11:59 pm (#1972 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Hermione's reaction to Harry/Cho did strike me as peculiar but I don't think her jealousy (if there is any) is due to any romantic inclinations towards Harry.
That is of course possible, but you do not know this, do you? Just as I do not know that you are wrong.
My original point in this part of the discussion may be summed up as:
Ron's reactions to the Hermione/Viktor relationship are "blatantly obvious".
Hermione's reactions to the Harry/Cho relationship are a bit "peculiar".
JKR asks us to read between the lines.
You can make of it what you wants.
The One
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 6:08 am (#1973 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
The One: I understand your PoV. If you look at it like that then it appears that JKR may well have been hinting at a H/Hr 'ship.
We'll just have to wait n see - you just never know with Rowling...
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 6:56 am (#1974 of 2916)
"We'll just have to wait n see - you just never know with Rowling... "
Well said, hermy-own! 10 points for you.
Regardless of who will snog whom, Harry and Ron both need to "age-up" a bit in the maturity department!
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 7:15 am (#1975 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yaye! Thanks Luna, 10 points for me!
Add that to my score so far and that gives a grand total of............10 points (oh, nevermind)
I think Harry would have learned a thing or two from his experience with Cho. Hopefully he won't be as naive next time round and his 'ship will be more successful.
Mind you, i'm not saying it was all his fault things didn't work out between him and Cho - I don't think she was right for him in the first place. Anyone second that?
Ron also has plenty maturing to do, although Hermione did teach him a lesson or two in those heated GoF arguements. It would be interesting to see how he would fare in a 'ship.
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The One - Aug 17, 2004 7:40 am (#1976 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
We'll just have to wait n see - you just never know with Rowling...
Second that one!
I don't think she was right for him in the first place.
Second that one two. There was nothing wrong with Cho, I think she was a nice girl, but not the right one for Harry. Pretty, sporting, popular, no wonder he cruhed on here, but they probably did not fit.
Then Cederic died, and there suddenly was somthing wrong with both Harry and Cho. No wonder it went extremly bad.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 10:37 am (#1977 of 2916)
There was too much guilt surrounding Harry and Cho's relationship. Harry was jealous of Cedric's relationship with Cho and then Harry watched Cedric be murdered. Cho always liked Harry (I think), but then started dating Cedric (Harry's rival), Cedric is murdered and then Cho dates Harry! Cedric's murder would always hang between them. Guilt, guilt and more guilt.
They both deserve to be happy. Now, who is Harry going to ask out? Luna, Hermione or Ginny? Do you think Pansy Parkinson would slip Harry some love potion?
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 10:49 am (#1978 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Luna, you forgot Susan as a possibility.
"...slip Harry some love potion" - nice one! don't think i've heard that one before - take 10 points for that!
EDIT: maybe you didn't forget Susan as a possibility and just left her out because you don't think she's a contender?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 11:02 am (#1979 of 2916)
You're right, I did forget about Susan! ouch!
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 11:18 am (#1980 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"iron hands" - Luna
Hahahaha!! Brilliant!
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 17, 2004 11:40 am (#1981 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 17, 2004 11:41 am
Do you think Pansy Parkinson would slip Harry some love potion? (LooneyLuna)
Now, really Looney. I must protest. Do you really think that Pansy would stoop that low? Whatever her faults may be(and they are indeed legion), I just don't see Pansy doing that.
For one thing, I don't think she is attracted to Harry...yet. For another, she has never abused her power. She never once used her power as Prefect or I.S. member for selfish ends. Putting someone under your spell via a love potion would be about the most selfish power thing you could do. Call it what you like, Pansy has too much integrity for that.
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 12:14 pm (#1982 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Do you think Pansy Parkinson would slip Harry some love potion?" - Luna
You know, I didn't think you meant this literally, Luna. I thought it was just another delightful metaphor predicting a H/P 'ship! Haha! I take it your not a H/P 'shipper then?
I have to agree with Marcus as far as Pansy not abusing her power. Despite being a meanie throughout the series she has not stooped as low as Draco, for instance.
And, she was not part of the Slytherin mob in Umbridge's office that DoM night! Can any non-H/P 'shippers (or indeed any H/P 'shippers) explain why JKR left Pansy out of that one? I'd like to see both sides of the story. (Sorry if someone has already explained this on another thread, I probably missed the post)
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 12:38 pm (#1983 of 2916)
I have to agree with Marcus as far as Pansy not abusing her power. Despite being a meanie throughout the series she has not stooped as low as Draco, for instance.
And, she was not part of the Slytherin mob in Umbridge's office that DoM night! Can any non-H/P 'shippers (or indeed any H/P 'shippers) explain why JKR left Pansy out of that one? I'd like to see both sides of the story. (Sorry if someone has already explained this on another thread, I probably missed the post) -- hermy-own
No apologies necessary Hermy. Take 10 points. Those are outstanding, prescient, and illuminating observations!!
In all seriousness, those points have been/are discussed regularly on the "Harry's Ship Uniting the Houses" thread. You can get 4 or 5 sides to the story there.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 17, 2004 1:17 pm (#1984 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
And, she was not part of the Slytherin mob in Umbridge's office that DoM night! Can any non-H/P 'shippers (or indeed any H/P 'shippers) explain why JKR left Pansy out of that one? (Hermy-own)
Ah, glad you asked that! As Loopy mentions, it has been discussed more than a little on the other thread, but here's the 15 knut version.
It is NOT because Pansy is in love with Harry, secretly or otherwise. It is primarily the choice of the author, not the character. Rowling is pulling a "thestral" here.
Along with the majority of the school, the Quibbler article marked a change in Pansy's attitude towards Harry. But Rowling didn't want to introduce the 'thaw' just yet. That is reserved for HBP. So she is left Pansy out of the Office Scene, and restricted her to purely off-screen mentions.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 1:24 pm (#1985 of 2916)
(A quick aside: Hey, Marcus, our avatars are somewhat related at the momement.)
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Padfoot - Aug 17, 2004 1:50 pm (#1986 of 2916)
Edited by Aug 17, 2004 1:50 pm
*Ahem* And I quote: I felt I was spending too much time and energy on the H/P 'ship thread. There is so much more in the Harry Potter universe than that, fascinating as it is. So I thought I would give it a rest for awhile. -Marcus
Not to laugh at you, but that took what, a whole day to get back into the H/P discussion?
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 17, 2004 1:58 pm (#1987 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Padfoot,
You will note that this is NOT the H/P 'ship thread. :-)
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 2:09 pm (#1988 of 2916)
What's more, I have been instigating and some effort has been devoting to keeping up with and talking to all the followers the H/P has been developing.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 2:44 pm (#1989 of 2916)
I was kidding about Pansy slipping Harry some love potion - I'm sure Pansy has already slipped Draco the mickey.
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Padfoot - Aug 17, 2004 2:45 pm (#1990 of 2916)
Ok, so this is not the H/P ship thread. And yet it looks strangely similar at times...
Ok Loopy, I will put all the blame on you for the recent discussions. Oh those H/P followers.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 4:22 pm (#1991 of 2916)
We are growing legion in our numbers.
But, I am always ready to explain, again and again, why Ron/Hermione is dead obvious.
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Czarina II - Aug 17, 2004 10:02 pm (#1992 of 2916)
Thank you, Loopy Lupin. ;-)
It sounds like it's time for another vote again.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 18, 2004 12:48 am (#1993 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Hmm, Noticed something I hadn't earlier. JKR said that Harry won't have any serious 'Shipping in the next books; only a couple of dates.
Now when you say a couple of dates, I think she meant dates with two different girls. Now, if Harry's going to have one-off dates, it surely won't be any one close to him; so, that definately rules off Ginny AND Hermione. The reason being that when they break up, it's not going to be easy being friends again is it?
Pansy? I would've said there is a chance for a genuine H/P 'ship. But not some minor fling between Harry and Pansy which would last only a week-end. The reason being that when they break-up, I'm sure they'll be furious with each other. Now, does that serve Prefect Marcus' theory of uniting Gryffindor and Slytherin? It doesn't.
So, I believe we have to look at some of the minor characters for Harry's 'Ship. Susan? I believe a nurse called "Susan Potter" has given some evidence for H/S 'ship on this thread. Any one else? Luna may be. BTW, a H/L 'ship also serves the "Harry's 'ship in uniting houses" theory. Only this one unites Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. Any one else?
Well, I put my money on Parvati for atleast having a short fling with Harry. After all, she was his first date; to the Yule Ball (If you can call it a date). Also, the only girl that is mentioned as being preety apart from Cho and Fleur is Parvati. Harry has repeatedly noticed that Parvati has preety hair. And, I don't think there will be any drastic change in the overall story if Harry/Parvati 'ship does hit he iceberg. Life will continue as before.
P.S: All the assumptions of what will happen when Harry's dates go wrong is based on the general pattern. Please don't tell me some-one on this thread broke up with His/Her Girlfriend/Boyfirend and remained friends with them.
P.P.S: Has any one noticed I'm no longer a H/Hr (romantic)'shipper?
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 4:54 am (#1994 of 2916)
Hi, I'm a newcomer to this thread and... to this forum. I really love to read almost all the posts in this forum but I have to say that I'm especially interested in HP characters' love lives since well, GoF?
Well, in my opinion, we can find some clues or red herrings about any possible relationships claimed by the fans. Not to mention H/Hr ship(Oh, yes, I'm always a H/Hr shipper as far as I remember;) ) or R/Hr ship, I read some evidences(?) provided by Harry/Ginny, Harry/Tonks, Harry/Luna or Harry/Pansy shippers, which surprised me because I've never thought about Harry with Tonks, Luna, or Pansy..@_@ (Gee, I think I haven't seen a passionate shipper of Ron/Luna or Neville/Ginny or etc.. Well, I also think the center pivot is Hermione and her two male friends.)
So, my conclusion is unless JKR makes completely impossible matches in the following two books, like Harry/Trelawney or Ron/Umbridge(sorry!), she will be able to defend herself from the fans' protest at some rate.. What is more, when I was reading the last book, OoP, I've got the impression that those most characters' minds are not unwavering or at least they don't know or accept whom they really want to be with. In fact, I think they have seemed somewhat sexless compared to my experience...-_- (I read JKR had said that they didn't have "hormonal" effect or something like that just hours ago.)
Hence, I believe the matter is which clues we have to choose to make a more plausible story and happier lives of "good" characters. And I, personally, want to give priority to happiness and well-being of our hero, Harry over everything.
I was very impressed by the phrase < Hermione has become Harry's conscience ("the part of his mind that often spoke in Hermione's voice") > from an essay in HP Lexicon. Well, I believe "a person who gives conscience and inspiration to another person" is the definition of "soul mate." (Is this the word that Prof. R. Williams asked to Will Hunting whether he had one or not?)
I read a post somewhere in this forum saying Harry needs to cry in front of supportive adults.. Oh yeah, I absolutely agree on the need of his crying, but not in front of adults. Can they understand him? I believe they can, but I don't think Harry will feel like me. What he needs is to cry in front of a supportive friend about his age who knows and understands what he had experienced and can comfort him. I can't see anyone fitter for this roll besides Hermione. (Well, Ron might be good, too, but you know, that's not what I want to say. ;( )
I know if Harry and Hermione can go out, we(?) need a change of Ron's heart. However, does he really have a crush on Hermione as a girlfriend? I'm sure that he has been reluctant in Hr/Vicky relationship, and I'm sure that he has been reluctant in Ginny/Michael or Dean relationship. Was he one hundred percent jealous because of his craving of opposite sex?
In addition, as far as I remember, Ron was always shocked at the news of love relationships. (Bill, Percy, and Fred.. am I right? By the way, how did they discover Harry's crush on Cho? Did he confess to them or did they just get a clue and accept it tacitly? I don't remember.) He seems a little dull and insensitive in love life so far..
If so, I don't think it will need a great difficulty for Ron to find a crush on another girl, at least at this point. If I had to choose a possible date for Ron, I would choose Luna. Luna was interested in Ron in some way and apparently she was the first girl who show an interest in Ron.. (Was there somebody else?) You know, people usually like people who like them.
As a H/Hr shipper, I want to indicate clues that seem opponent to H/Hr, instead of re-revealing defensive clues provided already by other H/Hr shippers. Because if we can disprove the clues, they will power H/Hr shippers on the contrary. So, my last question is this; What do you think about the following phrase?
----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)-----
Sorry for the too long post at all.. and sorry if the questions have ever been dealt before..;-(
P.S. Tornedo, I'm very sorry that you have changed your heart.. Anyway, I have to say that the Independence Day of Korea is 15. August.. but thanks for the congratulation!
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LooneyLuna - Aug 18, 2004 7:18 am (#1995 of 2916)
Welcome TimeTraveler!
"----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)----- "
I think it means that Harry already considers Ron and Hermione as a couple in his mind. To him, R/H already argue like an old married couple.
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The One - Aug 18, 2004 9:02 am (#1996 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
! ----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)-----
A 15 year old boy being treated like a henpecked, middle aged husband by his supposed crush? It make me feel like shouting "Run Ron! Run for your life!"
(And honestly, this has nothing to do with shipping H/Hr, these kind of things are fun to read about, but there are parts of the Molly/Arthur relationship I hate when I see it in real people.)
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 18, 2004 9:57 am (#1997 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
To the issue of how things could shape up in HBP, might I suggest reading the FanFic "It Begins"? It deals with the issues of what Harry's love life might be like in HBP in regards to H/P and some minor dating.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 18, 2004 10:17 am (#1998 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hmmm Marcus, you beat me to post 2000
Anyways.. just thought I'd mix things up in the 'shipping debate
I started a post yesterday & it turned into a 3 page essay (no joke), discussing the difference in maturity of Hermione & the boys, & touches on the relationships between Hermione, Ron, Harry & Krum. Without boring you all, I can post it if you like... but if I do get round to it please feel free to skip over it! Also remember, it's my opinion... so you don't have to agree... I might not post it.. but we'll see
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LooneyLuna - Aug 18, 2004 10:37 am (#1999 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus - that was good!
Fawkes, go ahead and post it, I'd love to read it.
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KWeldon - Aug 18, 2004 10:47 am (#2000 of 2916)
Marcus,
I have made a point not to read any fanfic, but curiosity got the better of me here.
Very nice, and a very plausible scenario. My gut feeling since I first read your theory on the other thread is that it will be Luna in sixth year and Pansy in seventh.
KWeldon
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Open minded sceptic
Perhaps you could give me some examples of what there has been "between the lines" to show that Hermione was not really supportive of Harry/Cho?
Hermione’s reactions to the Harry/Cho relationship is interpreted by many as showing her trying to conceal jealousy because of:
She asks Harry about it several times, knowing far more about Cho than Ron or even Harry himself. Many will recognise this as keeping an eye on the competition.
Despite this interest she busies herself with the Krum letter, being businesslike, brisk, and absentminded after having forced Harry to tell about the kiss. Does she act in this way in order to hide her true feelings about the kiss?
Despite Harry’s love life generally getting a surprisingly amount of attention from Hermione, she also allows herself to be distracted from Harry’s tale by telling of Ron for what appears to be not very good reasons. The look of disgust, the “Most insensitive wart” comment, and “the emotionally range of a teaspoon” comment are by many interpreted as Hermione venting her frustration over the Harry/Cho relationship on poor Ron.
Many also wonders why she asks “brightly” about how the date went, when she must have realized it was a disaster.
I would be surprised if not most of the readers here have seen these points earlier. Some of you believe in them, others do not. But if this interpretation does hold water, they fit the “read between the lines” statement perfectly. For those of us who believed in the H/Hr ship before the chat, the last chat gives us no reason to abandon ship. Quite the opposite in fact, since so many claims that R/Hr is so obvious, and the person asking seemed to be among them, the quote actually increases our confidence.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 16, 2004 3:18 am (#1952 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I don't think Hermione spoiled Harry/Cho date. If she did, I'll really hate her. BTW, a happy Independence day to all Indians and Koreans.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 6:07 am (#1953 of 2916)
Don't forget that Hogsmead weekends are few and far between. Hermione didn't have too many options of having Harry meet with Rita. I think Dumbledore had banned Rita from the Hogwarts grounds in GoF, and I'm sure Umbridge wouldn't take kindly to having Harry give Rita an interview at the school. I don't think that Hermione was trying to sabotage Harry's date with Cho. I also think that Hermione was jealous of Cho, but still wanted Harry to be happy. That's why she helped him, but wasn't "Miss Mary Sunshine" when she did.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 16, 2004 6:30 am (#1954 of 2916)
Hermione didn't have too many options of having Harry meet with Rita. I think Dumbledore had banned Rita from the Hogwarts grounds in GoF, and I'm sure Umbridge wouldn't take kindly to having Harry give Rita an interview at the school.-- LooneyLuna
That's what I said, but you managed to do it in a couple sentences. Take 10 points.
With all due respect to the examples above, I suppose you could choose to read into them some hidden motives of Hermione's. However, her motives and feelings seemed to be quite clear after the Yule Ball fight.
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Catherine - Aug 16, 2004 6:54 am (#1955 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
I went back and looked at the Hippogriff theory.
I think it's interesting, but I don't read into it that a Harry/Hermione romantic relationship is on the horizon. I do think that Harry loves Hermione, but I think it's more like a sister. JKR has stated that they have a very platonic relationship.
When I looked up hippogriffs, what struck me most was that griffins and horses are supposed to be mortal enemies, so that the hippogriff comes to be an emblem of the impossible. Sort of like, "When mares and griffins get together..." or "when pigs fly" kind of thing.
But Tracie's post about hippogriffs has definitely got me thinking in general.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 7:18 am (#1956 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I also think that Hermione was jealous of Cho, but still wanted Harry to be happy. That's why she helped him, but wasn't "Miss Mary Sunshine" when she did.
That is exactly how I interpret Hermione in this situation. I do not believe that she sabotaged the Valentine date on purpose.
As for the Yule Ball fight, I take Hemione's remark to mean: "If you are such a looser that you cannot even invite a girl to the ball, that is yours problem, not mine." It is possible to interpret something more into it, I agree, but I see no need to do so.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 7:18 am (#1957 of 2916)
Thanks, LoopyLupin!
When I said Hermione was jealous of Cho, I didn't mean it so much in a romantic way. Old friends can get jealous of new friends regardless of gender. I think Hermione is very protective of Harry - over-protective at times, but she still wants him to be happy. Again, I take Harry at his word regarding Hermione.
In the PoA movie, did anyone notice the parallels between Pansy P. fawning over Draco's injured arm and then Hermione fawning over Ron's bitten leg? I thought Ron rather enjoyed Hermione's attention there.
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tracie1976 - Aug 16, 2004 7:22 am (#1958 of 2916)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
dances....yea I got someone thinking!!!* lol
As for Rita's interview in OotP, I think Hermione could have gotten Rita onto Hogwart's grounds instead of Valentine's Day. Remember, Rita is an unregistered animagus, she could have used her form of the beatle to get there and Hermione could have simplied had Rita meet Harry and herself somewhere without anyone knowing. Harry and Hermione could have just been walking around the lake talking, with a bug following them. So I do believe Hermione planned it that way either conciously or subcounciously messing up Harry's date.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 7:28 am (#1959 of 2916)
I think Hermione learned her lesson about being overheard at the Hogs Head and that's why she had them all meet at the 3 Broomsticks - they would not be overheard. Rita asked a lot of questions, could she do that while a beetle?
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 16, 2004 7:31 am (#1960 of 2916)
As for the Yule Ball fight, I take Hemione's remark to mean: "If you are such a looser that you cannot even invite a girl to the ball, that is yours problem, not mine." It is possible to interpret something more into it, I agree, but I see no need to do so. -- The One
Well, I take it to mean what she says which is to ask her first and not as a last resort.
Tracie-- Having Rita fly onto the grounds would have been a possibility. However, I can't see Hermione suggesting that Rita break the law for this meeting. Being an unregistered animagus is exactly the thing Hermione "busted" Rita for, so it would be a little hypocritical to say, "Well, just bug out and come on over because I need to talk to you."
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 7:40 am (#1961 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
LooneyLuna
When I said Hermione was jealous of Cho, I didn't mean it so much in a romantic way. Old friends can get jealous of new friends regardless of gender.
That is true. But we can at least agree on seeing signs of Hermione being more jealous than she wants to admit, and disagree upon why?
As for Hermione messing up Harry's date on purpose, I believe that she would not do that. Assuming that she has a crush on him that he does not seem to return at the moment, I think that Hermione is logical enough not to want to ruin their friendship by stupid jealousy. She really and honestly tries to support him, but being only human she is unable to completely hide that she does not like it.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 16, 2004 7:53 am (#1962 of 2916)
I agree that Hermione was jealous and didn't want to admit it. Maybe she does have feelings for Harry other than a friendship. Or, Hermione thought of Cho as a rival for Harry's attention. If Harry is spending time with Cho, that's less time for Hermione. And since Hermione is friends with Ginny, Hermione doesn't think of Ginny as a rival or competition.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 8:37 am (#1963 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Well, I take it to mean what she says which is to ask her first and not as a last resort.
Yes, Actually I agree on this, but isn't that a good way to treat any girl? Will inviting a girl to a ball have to mean that you regard her as a girl friend? And will not the girl feel honored to be treated as a first choice, even if she does not regard the invitation as the start of a relationship? And does not the fact that Ron far from honored Hermione in this way, mean that he has no right to complain?
Basicly what Hermione says is that it is no point in being jealous when he does not even treat her properly, but I fail to see that as a promise that she will enter a relationship with him as soon as he does so.
I fail to see that if a girl wants to be recognized as a girl and treated as a girl by her male friends that means that she is in love with any of them.
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Star Crossed - Aug 16, 2004 11:10 am (#1964 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Okay, just last year I had a crush on a boy who sat behind me in homeroom. Since he sat directly behind me, we talked a lot. During most of my crush, he liked this one girl, and asked me what I should do. I told him to ask her out, but I made it very obvious that I did not want him to. He did. They went out. A month into it, they started having problems, so, he talked to me about it. I gave him more advicem again making it very obvious I did not want to talk about his love life.
Whenever I read post-Harry's date, when he talks to Hermione, I read Hermione's reactions, and cannot compare it to how I acted. And there was only a year's difference between us at the time. Hermione is very bright, but she tends to wear her emotions on her sleeves, unless she's in control over her emotions. If she does, she tries to give clues about how she feels. Like when she tried to get Harry and Ron to figure out what Remus really was. I don't think her being bright about it was a clue. I don't see "Harry, I'll pretend to be happy despite I knew your date was awful, just so I seem like I don't care, when in fact, I love you so much, I worship the ground you walk on.", rather, I see, "Finally that boy is dating. I hope it went well. Oh dear, it doesn't look like it did. I'll have to talk to him about it later."
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 16, 2004 12:10 pm (#1965 of 2916)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
When you check on the forum and there are NO New yellow dots, except for the 'ship thread, which you Never read!
Then you grab a butterbeer and start reading...
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 16, 2004 12:21 pm (#1966 of 2916)
"Finally that boy is dating. I hope it went well. Oh dear, it doesn't look like it did. I'll have to talk to him about it later." -- Star Crossed
That sums it up very nicely.
Basicly what Hermione says is that it is no point in being jealous when he does not even treat her properly, but I fail to see that as a promise that she will enter a relationship with him as soon as he does so. -- The One
The key word there is "jealous." Anyway, no one said Hermione is saying if Ron would have asked her to the dance, they'd be "going steady."
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 2:17 pm (#1967 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Whenever I read post-Harry's date, when he talks to Hermione, I read Hermione's reactions, and cannot compare it to how I acted.
Different people, different reactions, different experiences. I have no problem recognizing myself from similar situations in Hermione's actions. So to me my interpretation make very much sense.
"Finally that boy is dating. I hope it went well. Oh dear, it doesn't look like it did. I'll have to talk to him about it later."
She did not wait until later, she talked with him there:
Monday night after Valentines day:
Cho Chang walked into the Hall with her friend Marietta. Harry's stomach gave an unpleasant lurch, but she did not look over at the Gryffindor table, and sat down with her back to him.
'Oh, I forgot to ask you', said Hermione brightly, glancing over at the Ravenclaw table, 'what happened on your date with Cho? How come you were back so early?'
'Er... well, it was...' said Harry, pulling a dish of rhubarb crumble towards him and helping himself to seconds, 'a complete fiasco, now you mention it.'
And he told her what had happened in Madam Puddifoot's teashop.
'Oh, Harry' she said sadly. 'Well, I'm sorry, but you were a bit tactless.'
My interpretation: Hermione understands that the date probably was a fiasco. She feels happy about, but at the same time she is a little ashamed, because she should feel sorry for Harry. She wants to know how bad it was and starts asking. She starts out being "bright", but as the conversion progress manages to control herself and appears to be sad and supporting.
The key word there is "jealous."
I did not quite get the point here. Hermione understands that Ron is jealous, but does that mean that she have, or later will, fallen in love? Or is there something else I do not get?
Anyway, no one said Hermione is saying if Ron would have asked her to the dance, they'd be "going steady."
That is right, but exactly what does she say except that when he did no invite her, he has no right to complain?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 16, 2004 5:52 pm (#1968 of 2916)
"Hermione understands that the date probably was a fiasco."
I agree. Harry voiced his concern that he might have to spend the whole day with Cho, and then he turned up at the 3 Broomsticks early, and without Cho. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what had happened, and Hermione IS a genius...
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Hermy-own - Aug 16, 2004 10:15 pm (#1969 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Hermione's reaction to Harry/Cho did strike me as peculiar but I don't think her jealousy (if there is any) is due to any romantic inclinations towards Harry.
If jealousy is implicated I think it's more likely to be associated with the fear of losing Harry as her best friend. The possibility of Harry gaining another "best" friend, in addition to herself and Ron, would have made her uncomfortable (IMHO), hence the peculiar reaction.
EDIT:
"Then you grab a butterbeer and start reading..." - Twinkling Blue Eyes
lol!
(If you were being serious, where do you get your butterbeer from? I'd love to try some)
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Hermy-own - Aug 16, 2004 10:34 pm (#1970 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
I'm just correcting myself on something I said before:
"After all, JKR has said Harry will kiss someone in HBP" - post #1865
JKR used the word "snog" which is certainly more romantic than a kiss (e.g. the kisses Hermione gave Harry/Ron on the cheek)
Sorry to bring back old posts but I think I was unclear and confused a few people. Plus, I've been on vacation so haven't visited the forum for a while.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 16, 2004 11:51 pm (#1971 of 2916)
"Hermione's reaction to Harry/Cho did strike me as peculiar but I don't think her jealousy (if there is any) is due to any romantic inclinations towards Harry"
Strikes me as peculiar too but I actually don't think there's any jealousy involved. I actually think that she thinks Ron and Harry are hopeless with girls and won't get it anytime soon so she is torn between saying what she really wanted to say "well I knew you would screw up" and being supportive and sounding sad and somewhat shocked. Or perhaps, she knows that Ginny really only likes Harry and wants to get Harry to give up on Cho. Who knows.
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 11:59 pm (#1972 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Hermione's reaction to Harry/Cho did strike me as peculiar but I don't think her jealousy (if there is any) is due to any romantic inclinations towards Harry.
That is of course possible, but you do not know this, do you? Just as I do not know that you are wrong.
My original point in this part of the discussion may be summed up as:
Ron's reactions to the Hermione/Viktor relationship are "blatantly obvious".
Hermione's reactions to the Harry/Cho relationship are a bit "peculiar".
JKR asks us to read between the lines.
You can make of it what you wants.
The One
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 6:08 am (#1973 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
The One: I understand your PoV. If you look at it like that then it appears that JKR may well have been hinting at a H/Hr 'ship.
We'll just have to wait n see - you just never know with Rowling...
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 6:56 am (#1974 of 2916)
"We'll just have to wait n see - you just never know with Rowling... "
Well said, hermy-own! 10 points for you.
Regardless of who will snog whom, Harry and Ron both need to "age-up" a bit in the maturity department!
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 7:15 am (#1975 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yaye! Thanks Luna, 10 points for me!
Add that to my score so far and that gives a grand total of............10 points (oh, nevermind)
I think Harry would have learned a thing or two from his experience with Cho. Hopefully he won't be as naive next time round and his 'ship will be more successful.
Mind you, i'm not saying it was all his fault things didn't work out between him and Cho - I don't think she was right for him in the first place. Anyone second that?
Ron also has plenty maturing to do, although Hermione did teach him a lesson or two in those heated GoF arguements. It would be interesting to see how he would fare in a 'ship.
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The One - Aug 17, 2004 7:40 am (#1976 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
We'll just have to wait n see - you just never know with Rowling...
Second that one!
I don't think she was right for him in the first place.
Second that one two. There was nothing wrong with Cho, I think she was a nice girl, but not the right one for Harry. Pretty, sporting, popular, no wonder he cruhed on here, but they probably did not fit.
Then Cederic died, and there suddenly was somthing wrong with both Harry and Cho. No wonder it went extremly bad.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 10:37 am (#1977 of 2916)
There was too much guilt surrounding Harry and Cho's relationship. Harry was jealous of Cedric's relationship with Cho and then Harry watched Cedric be murdered. Cho always liked Harry (I think), but then started dating Cedric (Harry's rival), Cedric is murdered and then Cho dates Harry! Cedric's murder would always hang between them. Guilt, guilt and more guilt.
They both deserve to be happy. Now, who is Harry going to ask out? Luna, Hermione or Ginny? Do you think Pansy Parkinson would slip Harry some love potion?
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 10:49 am (#1978 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Luna, you forgot Susan as a possibility.
"...slip Harry some love potion" - nice one! don't think i've heard that one before - take 10 points for that!
EDIT: maybe you didn't forget Susan as a possibility and just left her out because you don't think she's a contender?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 11:02 am (#1979 of 2916)
You're right, I did forget about Susan!
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 11:18 am (#1980 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"iron hands" - Luna
Hahahaha!! Brilliant!
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 17, 2004 11:40 am (#1981 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 17, 2004 11:41 am
Do you think Pansy Parkinson would slip Harry some love potion? (LooneyLuna)
Now, really Looney. I must protest. Do you really think that Pansy would stoop that low? Whatever her faults may be(and they are indeed legion), I just don't see Pansy doing that.
For one thing, I don't think she is attracted to Harry...yet. For another, she has never abused her power. She never once used her power as Prefect or I.S. member for selfish ends. Putting someone under your spell via a love potion would be about the most selfish power thing you could do. Call it what you like, Pansy has too much integrity for that.
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Hermy-own - Aug 17, 2004 12:14 pm (#1982 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Do you think Pansy Parkinson would slip Harry some love potion?" - Luna
You know, I didn't think you meant this literally, Luna. I thought it was just another delightful metaphor predicting a H/P 'ship! Haha! I take it your not a H/P 'shipper then?
I have to agree with Marcus as far as Pansy not abusing her power. Despite being a meanie throughout the series she has not stooped as low as Draco, for instance.
And, she was not part of the Slytherin mob in Umbridge's office that DoM night! Can any non-H/P 'shippers (or indeed any H/P 'shippers) explain why JKR left Pansy out of that one? I'd like to see both sides of the story. (Sorry if someone has already explained this on another thread, I probably missed the post)
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 12:38 pm (#1983 of 2916)
I have to agree with Marcus as far as Pansy not abusing her power. Despite being a meanie throughout the series she has not stooped as low as Draco, for instance.
And, she was not part of the Slytherin mob in Umbridge's office that DoM night! Can any non-H/P 'shippers (or indeed any H/P 'shippers) explain why JKR left Pansy out of that one? I'd like to see both sides of the story. (Sorry if someone has already explained this on another thread, I probably missed the post) -- hermy-own
No apologies necessary Hermy. Take 10 points. Those are outstanding, prescient, and illuminating observations!!
In all seriousness, those points have been/are discussed regularly on the "Harry's Ship Uniting the Houses" thread. You can get 4 or 5 sides to the story there.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 17, 2004 1:17 pm (#1984 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
And, she was not part of the Slytherin mob in Umbridge's office that DoM night! Can any non-H/P 'shippers (or indeed any H/P 'shippers) explain why JKR left Pansy out of that one? (Hermy-own)
Ah, glad you asked that! As Loopy mentions, it has been discussed more than a little on the other thread, but here's the 15 knut version.
It is NOT because Pansy is in love with Harry, secretly or otherwise. It is primarily the choice of the author, not the character. Rowling is pulling a "thestral" here.
Along with the majority of the school, the Quibbler article marked a change in Pansy's attitude towards Harry. But Rowling didn't want to introduce the 'thaw' just yet. That is reserved for HBP. So she is left Pansy out of the Office Scene, and restricted her to purely off-screen mentions.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 1:24 pm (#1985 of 2916)
(A quick aside: Hey, Marcus, our avatars are somewhat related at the momement.)
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Padfoot - Aug 17, 2004 1:50 pm (#1986 of 2916)
Edited by Aug 17, 2004 1:50 pm
*Ahem* And I quote: I felt I was spending too much time and energy on the H/P 'ship thread. There is so much more in the Harry Potter universe than that, fascinating as it is. So I thought I would give it a rest for awhile. -Marcus
Not to laugh at you, but that took what, a whole day to get back into the H/P discussion?
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 17, 2004 1:58 pm (#1987 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Padfoot,
You will note that this is NOT the H/P 'ship thread. :-)
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 2:09 pm (#1988 of 2916)
What's more, I have been instigating and some effort has been devoting to keeping up with and talking to all the followers the H/P has been developing.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 17, 2004 2:44 pm (#1989 of 2916)
I was kidding about Pansy slipping Harry some love potion - I'm sure Pansy has already slipped Draco the mickey.
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Padfoot - Aug 17, 2004 2:45 pm (#1990 of 2916)
Ok, so this is not the H/P ship thread. And yet it looks strangely similar at times...
Ok Loopy, I will put all the blame on you for the recent discussions. Oh those H/P followers.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 17, 2004 4:22 pm (#1991 of 2916)
We are growing legion in our numbers.
But, I am always ready to explain, again and again, why Ron/Hermione is dead obvious.
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Czarina II - Aug 17, 2004 10:02 pm (#1992 of 2916)
Thank you, Loopy Lupin. ;-)
It sounds like it's time for another vote again.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 18, 2004 12:48 am (#1993 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Hmm, Noticed something I hadn't earlier. JKR said that Harry won't have any serious 'Shipping in the next books; only a couple of dates.
Now when you say a couple of dates, I think she meant dates with two different girls. Now, if Harry's going to have one-off dates, it surely won't be any one close to him; so, that definately rules off Ginny AND Hermione. The reason being that when they break up, it's not going to be easy being friends again is it?
Pansy? I would've said there is a chance for a genuine H/P 'ship. But not some minor fling between Harry and Pansy which would last only a week-end. The reason being that when they break-up, I'm sure they'll be furious with each other. Now, does that serve Prefect Marcus' theory of uniting Gryffindor and Slytherin? It doesn't.
So, I believe we have to look at some of the minor characters for Harry's 'Ship. Susan? I believe a nurse called "Susan Potter" has given some evidence for H/S 'ship on this thread. Any one else? Luna may be. BTW, a H/L 'ship also serves the "Harry's 'ship in uniting houses" theory. Only this one unites Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. Any one else?
Well, I put my money on Parvati for atleast having a short fling with Harry. After all, she was his first date; to the Yule Ball (If you can call it a date). Also, the only girl that is mentioned as being preety apart from Cho and Fleur is Parvati. Harry has repeatedly noticed that Parvati has preety hair. And, I don't think there will be any drastic change in the overall story if Harry/Parvati 'ship does hit he iceberg. Life will continue as before.
P.S: All the assumptions of what will happen when Harry's dates go wrong is based on the general pattern. Please don't tell me some-one on this thread broke up with His/Her Girlfriend/Boyfirend and remained friends with them.
P.P.S: Has any one noticed I'm no longer a H/Hr (romantic)'shipper?
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 4:54 am (#1994 of 2916)
Hi, I'm a newcomer to this thread and... to this forum. I really love to read almost all the posts in this forum but I have to say that I'm especially interested in HP characters' love lives since well, GoF?
Well, in my opinion, we can find some clues or red herrings about any possible relationships claimed by the fans. Not to mention H/Hr ship(Oh, yes, I'm always a H/Hr shipper as far as I remember;) ) or R/Hr ship, I read some evidences(?) provided by Harry/Ginny, Harry/Tonks, Harry/Luna or Harry/Pansy shippers, which surprised me because I've never thought about Harry with Tonks, Luna, or Pansy..@_@ (Gee, I think I haven't seen a passionate shipper of Ron/Luna or Neville/Ginny or etc.. Well, I also think the center pivot is Hermione and her two male friends.)
So, my conclusion is unless JKR makes completely impossible matches in the following two books, like Harry/Trelawney or Ron/Umbridge(sorry!), she will be able to defend herself from the fans' protest at some rate.. What is more, when I was reading the last book, OoP, I've got the impression that those most characters' minds are not unwavering or at least they don't know or accept whom they really want to be with. In fact, I think they have seemed somewhat sexless compared to my experience...-_- (I read JKR had said that they didn't have "hormonal" effect or something like that just hours ago.)
Hence, I believe the matter is which clues we have to choose to make a more plausible story and happier lives of "good" characters. And I, personally, want to give priority to happiness and well-being of our hero, Harry over everything.
I was very impressed by the phrase < Hermione has become Harry's conscience ("the part of his mind that often spoke in Hermione's voice") > from an essay in HP Lexicon. Well, I believe "a person who gives conscience and inspiration to another person" is the definition of "soul mate." (Is this the word that Prof. R. Williams asked to Will Hunting whether he had one or not?)
I read a post somewhere in this forum saying Harry needs to cry in front of supportive adults.. Oh yeah, I absolutely agree on the need of his crying, but not in front of adults. Can they understand him? I believe they can, but I don't think Harry will feel like me. What he needs is to cry in front of a supportive friend about his age who knows and understands what he had experienced and can comfort him. I can't see anyone fitter for this roll besides Hermione. (Well, Ron might be good, too, but you know, that's not what I want to say. ;( )
I know if Harry and Hermione can go out, we(?) need a change of Ron's heart. However, does he really have a crush on Hermione as a girlfriend? I'm sure that he has been reluctant in Hr/Vicky relationship, and I'm sure that he has been reluctant in Ginny/Michael or Dean relationship. Was he one hundred percent jealous because of his craving of opposite sex?
In addition, as far as I remember, Ron was always shocked at the news of love relationships. (Bill, Percy, and Fred.. am I right? By the way, how did they discover Harry's crush on Cho? Did he confess to them or did they just get a clue and accept it tacitly? I don't remember.) He seems a little dull and insensitive in love life so far..
If so, I don't think it will need a great difficulty for Ron to find a crush on another girl, at least at this point. If I had to choose a possible date for Ron, I would choose Luna. Luna was interested in Ron in some way and apparently she was the first girl who show an interest in Ron.. (Was there somebody else?) You know, people usually like people who like them.
As a H/Hr shipper, I want to indicate clues that seem opponent to H/Hr, instead of re-revealing defensive clues provided already by other H/Hr shippers. Because if we can disprove the clues, they will power H/Hr shippers on the contrary. So, my last question is this; What do you think about the following phrase?
----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)-----
Sorry for the too long post at all.. and sorry if the questions have ever been dealt before..;-(
P.S. Tornedo, I'm very sorry that you have changed your heart.. Anyway, I have to say that the Independence Day of Korea is 15. August.. but thanks for the congratulation!
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LooneyLuna - Aug 18, 2004 7:18 am (#1995 of 2916)
Welcome TimeTraveler!
"----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)----- "
I think it means that Harry already considers Ron and Hermione as a couple in his mind. To him, R/H already argue like an old married couple.
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The One - Aug 18, 2004 9:02 am (#1996 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
! ----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)-----
A 15 year old boy being treated like a henpecked, middle aged husband by his supposed crush? It make me feel like shouting "Run Ron! Run for your life!"
(And honestly, this has nothing to do with shipping H/Hr, these kind of things are fun to read about, but there are parts of the Molly/Arthur relationship I hate when I see it in real people.)
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 18, 2004 9:57 am (#1997 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
To the issue of how things could shape up in HBP, might I suggest reading the FanFic "It Begins"? It deals with the issues of what Harry's love life might be like in HBP in regards to H/P and some minor dating.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 18, 2004 10:17 am (#1998 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hmmm Marcus, you beat me to post 2000
Anyways.. just thought I'd mix things up in the 'shipping debate
I started a post yesterday & it turned into a 3 page essay (no joke), discussing the difference in maturity of Hermione & the boys, & touches on the relationships between Hermione, Ron, Harry & Krum. Without boring you all, I can post it if you like... but if I do get round to it please feel free to skip over it! Also remember, it's my opinion... so you don't have to agree... I might not post it.. but we'll see
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LooneyLuna - Aug 18, 2004 10:37 am (#1999 of 2916)
Prefect Marcus - that was good!
Fawkes, go ahead and post it, I'd love to read it.
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KWeldon - Aug 18, 2004 10:47 am (#2000 of 2916)
Marcus,
I have made a point not to read any fanfic, but curiosity got the better of me here.
Very nice, and a very plausible scenario. My gut feeling since I first read your theory on the other thread is that it will be Luna in sixth year and Pansy in seventh.
KWeldon
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 2001 to 2050)
Elanor Sun May 15, 2011 2:39 am
Prefect Marcus - Aug 18, 2004 10:59 am (#2001 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Yes, Fawkes. Please post. It should be fun!
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Padfoot - Aug 18, 2004 11:26 am (#2002 of 2916)
Marcus, just read your fan fiction. Very nice. I have not read you writings before, got to go check out what else you have written.
I was surprised to see the Luna 'ship developing, but hey why not? I see as much chance of Luna, Pansy, Susan or Parvati being in a 'ship with Harry as anybody else. I see Harry dating a few girls before the end of book 7 too. I still can't see him settling down with any one girl. Then again, he is 16 (or will be shortly).
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Kasse - Aug 18, 2004 12:03 pm (#2003 of 2916)
Even though I do not support the ship of either H/P or H/L, I did really enjoy your fanfic Marcus - it made me smile.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 18, 2004 12:16 pm (#2004 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Thank-you for all your kind comments about the fanfic.
I wrote it primarily to answer those who have difficulty seeing how a H/P 'ship might develop in the last two books. Far too many people seem to think that Pansy has to show up at Hogwarts in the beginning of HBP completely reformed and all Miss Goody-two-shoes. Give Rowling some credit! It's going to be a long haul before Pansy gets to the point where she and Harry can get together, say Christmas of Book-7.
In the meantime, what is Harry supposed to do? Be a monk? Not a chance. He has plenty of time to have a hormonal crush or two before it dawns on him that Pansy is the girl he wants.
I agree that 17 is a bit early to be choosing life partners, but his parents did all right.
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 12:26 pm (#2005 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
P.P.S: Has any one noticed I'm no longer a H/Hr (romantic)'shipper?
I thought so, but I didn't want you to realise what you were doing, so I was afraid to say anything. However, you can imagine I had a few comments on the tip of my tongue. Does this mean you're once again on the good ship R/Hr?
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The One - Aug 18, 2004 12:30 pm (#2006 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
tornedo
P.P.S: Has any one noticed I'm no longer a H/Hr (romantic)'shipper?
Betrayal! You are worse then Ron!
:-)
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Kasse - Aug 18, 2004 12:42 pm (#2007 of 2916)
Aly, like you I did not want to say anything because Tornedo was a hard core H/Hr shipper.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 18, 2004 12:44 pm (#2008 of 2916)
Nice fanfic Marcus. Perhaps the highest compliment I can pay you is that reading it set off a harsh spasm of withdrawals. I want my Book 6!!!!!
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 6:50 pm (#2009 of 2916)
Hi, I'm back. I think my active time is different to yours. I had a hard time to sleep..
And thanks for the replies, LoonyLuna and The One..
and sorry for not commenting about Prefect Marcus's fanfic.. You know what? I simply don't want to think about H/P ship.. I don't like it.. Just it's not my taste.
And can I talk about the problem I brought last night, though it looked like a slightly old topic now..
An idea hit on me during my hard trying to sleep..
-------------------------------------------------------
! ----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)-----
A 15 year old boy being treated like a henpecked, middle aged husband by his supposed crush? It make me feel like shouting "Run Ron! Run for your life!"
(And honestly, this has nothing to do with shipping H/Hr, these kind of things are fun to read about, but there are parts of the Molly/Arthur relationship I hate when I see it in real people.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
by The One
"Run Ron! Run for your life!" I like this expression because Ron seemd to play a rather comic and surrounding roll in the OoP.. Neville looked more important than him.. Alas, please Jo, give more respect to our old companion next time..
Like The One, Harry seemd not very approving for the Weasleys relationship.. then, did he feel somewhat uneasy at the scene above? Probably.
If so, maybe this scene is not about Ron and Hermione, but about Harry's feeling..
Just an opinion. :-)
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True Love - Aug 18, 2004 7:38 pm (#2010 of 2916)
I hope the boys mature a bit or wise-up about girls. I hope Harry and Ron are not true reps. of British boys although I suspect they are when I think back on the boys I dated in high school... The French boys were much more fun. I still can't see Harry with any of the girls in his current circle of friends. I think the next person he dates will be a new comer, not a first year but someone new to the school. Any chance the boys will get a crush on a future female teacher just as the girls did with a former DADA teacher? Could be cute.
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 8:18 pm (#2011 of 2916)
True Love, you reminds me what I thought last night.. How about Harry's dating with a Muggle girl? An open-minded, bright, vivid, favorable, approving Muggle girl.. perhaps after his victory over LV..
A Muggle girl may be better for him, because she won't remind him of bad memories at least less than Witch girls..
Well, I know a Muggle girl doesn't look like a possible match for him or other main characters so far.. but interesting assumption, isn't it? :-(
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Sir Tornado - Aug 18, 2004 8:39 pm (#2012 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Tornedo, I'm very sorry that you have changed your heart.. Anyway, I have to say that the Independence Day of Korea is 15. August.. but thanks for the congratulation! -- Time Traveller
Does this mean you're once again on the good ship R/Hr? -- Star Crossed. (Once again? When was the last time? BTW, you've got the adjective good ship to the wrong 'ship. H/Hr is supposed to be the good 'Ship)
Betrayal! You are worse then Ron! -- The One (NO I'M NOT. I never said H/Hr are going to form a Romantic relationship. Never in so many words any way.)
Aly, like you I did not want to say anything because Tornedo was a hard core H/Hr shipper. -- Kasse (Was? Kasse, I'm still alive )
I just said I'm not a H/Hr 'Shipper any more. I still support them. Yeah, I know about the Independence day. I guess my post appeared on 16th because of time zones. Which Time Zone do we use on this Forum anyway?
Anyway, as much as I hate Ron, I do think there's a minute (0.00001%) possibility for a R/Hr 'ship. I personally now 'Ship Harry/Minor Character; Hermione/Terry Boot and Ron/Grave Stone.
Now, I'm tired of saying again and again that, to me, the Ar/Mo 'ship looks more like H/Hr 'ship. We've seen Arthur argue only twice; while Ron and Hermione are in perpetual disagreement. I guess if they did marry, they'd have trouble deciding the wedding date, the wedding cake, the Honeymoon destination, the Church, the house even maybe the Gringotts account number; to name just a few. How will they ever succeed in marriage, I can't see at all.
Alas, please Jo, give more respect to our old companion next time.. -- Time Traveler
I guess it won't be in the next book. I mean, He'll die only in the 7th book won't he? That's when you'll get the time to respect him.
About H/P... JKR said Harry won't have a serious 'Ship with anyone. So, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed Marcus.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 18, 2004 8:45 pm (#2013 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 18, 2004 8:46 pm
About H/P... JKR said Harry won't have a serious 'Ship with anyone. So, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed Marcus. (Tornedo)
Really? What's the reference? I am aware where she says he won't have one in HBP, but does she say he won't in book7 as well?
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Upulwan - Aug 18, 2004 9:25 pm (#2014 of 2916)
Do tell, I'd like to know that too. (Not because I think H/P a good idea...)
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 9:50 pm (#2015 of 2916)
------Yeah, I know about the Independence day. I guess my post appeared on 16th because of time zones. --------- Tornedo
Oh, you're very careful.. 10 points to Tornedo. :-)
--------JKR said Harry won't have a serious 'Ship with anyone.------
Well, I don't know whether she would do or not.. but I won't be disappointed even if Harry's going out with nobody..
That may seem likelier since he have to go through harder and harder trials.. At the end of OoP, he thought the affair with Cho was a completely trivial and.. mundane(?) thing and so did I.. I think he will continue to have the similar feeling about things like that for some time..
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 5:38 am (#2016 of 2916)
Do tell, I'd like to know that too. (Not because I think H/P a good idea...) -- Ulpuwan.
Ditto, except of course the part about H/P.
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KWeldon - Aug 19, 2004 6:53 am (#2017 of 2916)
This isn't the first time I've heard someone say that JKR mentioned Harry wouldn't have a serious relationship, and I wanted proof then, too. I wonder if some are paraphrasing her comment that he'd definitely be busy during the next two books, but what's life without a little romance? I believe this was the World Book Day chat, or whatever it was called.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 7:11 am (#2018 of 2916)
Yes, the World Book Day chat is the only thing that springs to my mind and all it says is "what's life without romance?" It do not think it says that its monksville for Harry in 6, but lots of snogging in 7.
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Hermy-own - Aug 19, 2004 7:20 am (#2019 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Tornedo, I think this forum uses American Western time i.e. 5 hours behind American Eastern and 8 hours behind GMT (London).
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LooneyLuna - Aug 19, 2004 7:27 am (#2020 of 2916)
Loopy Lupin - "lots of snogging in 7."
Harry can use the Room of Requirement as his Bachelor Pad. Hmmmm..."Er...would you like to see my Patronus?"
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Time Traveler - Aug 19, 2004 7:55 am (#2021 of 2916)
"what's life without romance?" ------ Loopy Lupin
Well, I don't think a life without any romance is completely worthless.. However, a teenager story without any romance, can be completely worthless.. I agree. :-)
What I wanted to say was that a serious unshakable romantic relationship doesn't need to be essential for Harry's life in the following books. He is very young and even younger accepting the assumption that wizard/witches seem to live about twice longer than Muggles. (I read this from somewhere.) Well, marriage at your early age may be a common custom in the Wizarding society. See the Weasleys or the Potters.. I heard they are not old compared to thier children's age. Or I think people tend to marry early when the world is insecure..
IMHO it is possible that JKR just gives some clues about romantic ships and remains the results open even in the end of the 7th book. She said she really loved to read fans' diverse theories.. :-)
BTW, even though those relationships JKR will show us are not very firm, I think they will give Harry more comfort and stability. Well, they should do. :-)
I said Sirius's death made a dating with a girl somewht trivial, but I actually think the vice-versa is possible. Sometimes love makes people blind to surroundings but love itself.. The loss can be offseted by the gain..
I just hope that any of the relationships of our main characters would not hurt anyone..
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 7:56 am (#2022 of 2916)
Hehe Looney.
Actually, the forum is on Pacific Standard Time which is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. So, when I post this, it will show approx. 7:57 a.m., but it is 10:57 on the East Coast where I am. (Sorry, but I'm an insufferable know-it-all.)
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Kasse - Aug 19, 2004 8:22 am (#2023 of 2916)
Just a thought. You think at the end of the seventh book she will leave us knowing exactly who and who are shipping or will she leave that hanging and let this argument continue on and on forever?
I for one would not be pleased if she left it hanging. I would like a solid ending even if it is not the ships that I support.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 9:21 am (#2024 of 2916)
Oh, I'll be very put out if I'm left hanging. At the same time, I don't want an "epilogue" telling me that Harry lived to be 150, fathered 12 children with his lovely wife Pansy (), enjoyed a 25 year run as minister of magic, and then retired to be headmaster at hogwarts for the rest of his days. I'd prefer them all left at age 17-18 with whatever 'ships are happening at the time firmly in place. (That way, you see, if Rowling gets the urge to return to Hogwarts years from now, she pick up right there rather cleanly.)
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Czarina II - Aug 19, 2004 9:44 am (#2025 of 2916)
Loony, JKR said that she's already written an epilogue, however it goes.
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 19, 2004 9:46 am (#2026 of 2916)
I agree Loopy Lupin. I hate many movie sequels of movies that were never meant to be more than one. Because they were a hit, they try to continue the story, and if there was a romance involved, the sequel almost always ruins it for me. I'd much rather imagine their future myself.
I feel that if there is a R/H ship, it can be a side story that doesn't affect the final outcome of the books too much. However, I believe if Harry has any more romances, it will directly affect the outcome. Especially because it seems that love will play a part in Voldemort's downfall. Harry has many people who love him, but nothing can match the intensity of romantic love. Well, there is parent/child love, but that part has already played out with Lily's sacrifice. It will have to be something different this time around.
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 9:56 am (#2027 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I feel that if there is a R/H ship, it can be a side story that doesn't affect the final outcome of the books too much. However, I believe if Harry has any more romances, it will directly affect the outcome. Especially because it seems that love will play a part in Voldemort's downfall.
I agree on this one. Ron's girlfriend, whoever that might be will probably be a side story, while if Harry gets a lasting girlfriend, that relationship will probably be important to the main plot.
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Padfoot - Aug 19, 2004 11:22 am (#2028 of 2916)
Edited by Aug 19, 2004 11:22 am
I think Jo will wrap up the story and include the 'shipping information as well. She has mentioned before (somewhere) that she enjoys reading the debates back and forth on who will end up with whom. Whatever ending she writes, it will be good. I do not think she will leave us hanging for more information. Nor do I think she will write any more Harry books after book 7. Although I would love it if I were wrong about books 8, 9, 10...548.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:02 pm (#2029 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Once again? When was the last time? BTW, you've got the adjective good ship to the wrong 'ship. H/Hr is supposed to be the good 'Ship
Could have sworn you said you were R/Hr Pre-OP (Anyone else think of pre-operation when they see that?). Plus, I used the right adjective. R/Hr's ship name is Good Ship R/Hr. Whoever named it that should be smacked. We need something more creative.
Now, I'm tired of saying again and again that, to me, the Ar/Mo 'ship looks more like H/Hr 'ship. We've seen Arthur argue only twice; while Ron and Hermione are in perpetual disagreement.
You have to be fair. We don't see Arthur and Molly as much as we see Ron and Hermione.
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 1:14 pm (#2030 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
R/Hr's ship name is Good Ship R/Hr. Whoever named it that should be smacked. We need something more creative.
Perhaps you will find comfort in that HMS Pumpkin Pie is hardly any better. :-)
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Hermy-own - Aug 19, 2004 1:33 pm (#2031 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
The One: HMS Pumpkin Pie - Hahahaha!!
I've read some funny things on this forum but I doubt any has made me laugh for so long.
EDIT: still laughing...
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:38 pm (#2032 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Perhaps you will find comfort in that HMS Pumpkin Pie is hardly any better. :-)
Yeah, I heard that before. It might not be better, but it is more creative. What does HMS stand for (Harry/Mary Sue? Kidding.)? And also, where did Pumpkin Pie come from?
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Hermy-own - Aug 19, 2004 1:46 pm (#2033 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Star Crossed, all British ships are named 'HMS something'. HMS stands for 'His/Her Majesty's Ship' depending on whether it was a King or a Queen that "baptised" (sorry can't think of the actual term) the ship.
Pumpkin Pie - sorry, can't help you with that one but it sure was funny.
EDIT:
Correction - I think the His/Her part depends on the gender of the current monarch. Anyone know for sure?
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 1:50 pm (#2034 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
HMS = His/Her Majesty's Ship
A prefix added to the name of all British navy ships, just like USS in the US Navy or KNM in the Norwegian Navy. (Bet not many of you knew the last one!)
The name Pumpkin Pie is supposed to come from some FanFic where Harry and Hermione kisses just after a feast, and it tastes like, yes you can guess.
( hermy-own I am pretty sure that His/Hers refers to the current monarch as he/she "owns" the entire Navy.)
You can find this stuff on Portkey, but I am unable to find the link just now.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:55 pm (#2035 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Thanks! I never would have guessed.
Aha, I thought it came from PoA when they hid behind the pumpkins. Least your ship has an interesting...er...name history?
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 2:05 pm (#2036 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
You are welcome!
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True Love - Aug 19, 2004 4:28 pm (#2037 of 2916)
I thought I read in an interview - you know where the kids ask questions - that Harry would have time for romance and some kisses too in the next book. Afterall, she is trying to show what it is like for a teenage boy to go through the trials and tribulations of all other teenagers - but in this magical dark world. I will look it us and see if I can copy it for you "none believers".
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Time Traveler - Aug 19, 2004 7:34 pm (#2038 of 2916)
Here I have a question.. Did you all read the books in English?
I'm not a native English-speaker, as you guess from what I've written so far, but I've read all HP books in English, US addition, for some reasons. And I'm a POSITIVE H/Hr shipper.
On the contrary, when my best friend and other people who I know have read the books in our language talks about the romantic ship, it seems to me that they simply believe R/Hr ship is conclusive.
Well, I haven't read the translated books except some paragraphs, so I can't criticize those translators but I read some articles complaining about some parts of the translation...
I don't want to believe this, but our different interpretaion of the ships partly can place the responsibility on our different texts?
I'm just curious... :-)
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Especially because it seems that love will play a part in Voldemort's downfall. Harry has many people who love him, but nothing can match the intensity of romantic love. Well, there is parent/child love, but that part has already played out with Lily's sacrifice. It will have to be something different this time around.
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coolbeans3131
Hmm.... will we see another noble death of sacrifice for Harry? Or almost deathlike wound.. or Harry's sacrifice for his loving people and the world? Just a thought..
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Crisz - Aug 19, 2004 7:56 pm (#2039 of 2916)
I personally don't want to see any relations formed, especially HP/HG & RW/HG because they are the trio! I mean, if two of them got together, then there would be one man out, you know? The trio would be ruined.
Remember in OotP when Hermione & Ron left Harry on the train because they were prefects? Didn't Harry feel lost? And I wouldn't doubt a little upset (justifiable so, I should think!).
And can you imagine how jealous Ron would be if Hermione spent all her time with Harry? Perhaps he'd become the traitor in book 6 & 7 if that happened...
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 19, 2004 8:55 pm (#2040 of 2916)
Well, I can't see Ron becoming a traitor, but I can see him making a big mistake because of his jealousy. Ron has some resentments and JKR has let us see them in every single book, right from when we first meet him on the train. I think it will be significant.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 19, 2004 9:49 pm (#2041 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Time Traveler, I can't comment about translated versions, but I read the US versions of the book and saw the obvious conclusion to be R/Hr. I think it is very much a personal opinion sort of thing. I don't know how much that helps, or if it does at all, but there you go.
Crisz, I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio. However, I do think his friends will be majorly responsible for getting him through everything so he can face Voldemort alone. I think we've seen this slow seperation for awhile now. In PS the Trio went through the trapdoor together but Harry stood alone at the end. In CoS, Hermione is taken out toward the end of the book (petrified) so that Ron has to go on with Harry to face Aragog, etc, but Harry still stands alone in the Chamber. In PoA, Ron is taken out toward the end (broken leg) and so Hermione has to go on with Harry to go back in time and save Buckbeak and Sirius. (There is no real reason for Harry to be alone here because Voldemort isn't present; however, Harry is alone in that he, alone, can cast the Patronus charm to save himself and Sirius. Hermione couldn't help with that.) In GoF, Harry faces the three Triwizard tasks alone and is alone in the graveyard at the end of the book. He also starts to feel mentally seperated (because of his grief and the trauma he has been through) from his friends. In OotP we start to see more of a physical representation of this seperation when Harry boards the train without Ron and Hermione with him for the first time. They are also seperated from him by being made prefects (they have Prefect duties, Harry is jealous...). We also see some mental seperation going on as Harry keeps many of his dreams from them, shuts them out at many points (mostly due to raging hormones I would guess), as Harry goes through a great deal of mental stress, etc. We also have Harry tell us how he feels like he is in a world apart from everyone around him after he hears the Prophecy and that he feels he is a "marked man" (another seperation). I think the next step is to further seperate Harry mentally and physically in HBP.
What does this have to do with 'shipping? Well, Harry's two best friends dating would certainly be a concise way of furthering this pattern. Harry would almost push himself away a little, even if his two best friends didn't, because he would feel like a third wheel everywhere they went. This would also allow Harry to strengthen other friendships in an attempt to compensate for what he feels he is lacking from Ron and Hermione's absense.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 19, 2004 10:46 pm (#2042 of 2916)
Ah but if Ginny got together with Harry... then it'll be Ron's sister and Hermione's best girl friend? When Harry gives Ginny the respect that she deserves (she is no longer a little girl) and begins to confide in her too, it'll be quite natural for the four to discuss secrets and work out problems and strategies. We get the impression that Ginny and Hermione shares their girl secrets with each other and Ginny being Ron's sister and Harry's girlfriend would be a natural fit.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 19, 2004 10:55 pm (#2043 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I don't think we'll see Harry in any kind of significant 'ship until after Voldemort is out of the picture, though we might see developing feelings somewhere. I could be wrong, though....
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Time Traveler - Aug 20, 2004 1:33 am (#2044 of 2916)
And can you imagine how jealous Ron would be if Hermione spent all her time with Harry? ------------- Crisz
I think Ron could be jealous.. However, when I think about OoP, Ron didn't look very jealous about the fact of Hermione's sharing a lot of time and thoughts with Harry but him. See, Hogsmead interview, the first Grawp meeting, taking Umbridge to the centaurs, and the battle in the DoM.. All these parts were important in OoP's storyline and in these scenes, Harry was with Hermione alone (at least among the Trio) for some reasons..
One reason is that Ron was very busy in practicing or playing Quidditch. It seems Ron played some minor roll at the large storyline of Harry's struggles, but I think this was a kind of development for Ron himself..
Yes, he was always a "minor" character but the difference is before he did less things by Harry and now he is doing something different apart from him..
I can't think Ron's seperating from the other Trio was something unavoidable if JKR wanted him to join them. Well, this WAS unavoidable for the future storyline?
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I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio.
----------------------------- S.E. Jones
Okay, I also think Harry will face Voldemort alone and he has done it so far. Eventually the fight against Voldemort is his own fate and nobody can take his place.. (Every human is alone.. ;-> ) However, it turned out LOVE was the most important ingredient to vanquish LV, so at the end of this story when I believe Voldmort will lose his entire power in some way, Harry really needs someone with whom he can show LV what the real love is.. whether it is a kind of romantic ship or strong friendship or else..
Well? I don't think that self-love is definitely not a kind of love we have to take into account.. :-)
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 20, 2004 6:46 am (#2045 of 2916)
Here I have a question.. Did you all read the books in English?-- Time Traveler
I'll only speak for myself here, but you think too much of me. Unlike you, I don't have the advantage and accomplishment of speaking more than one language, so English it was for me. (And, your English is quite good by the way.) Anyway, much like S.E. Jones, I read the U.S. English versions and came to the obvious R/H conclusion.
I think its a given that, in the final battle scene, it will be Harry v. LV with no trio or Death Eaters either. So, I don't think that if two of the trio pair off it will make much difference for the end scene.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 6:52 am (#2046 of 2916)
"I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio." S.E. Jones
I agree. Also, Harry's separation from Ron and Hermione opens him up to make friends with other people - that whole "unite the houses" thing. Notice that he's not just asking Ron and Hermione for help anymore - he's getting help from Ginny, Fred and George. He finds comfort from Luna instead of Hermione after Sirius' death. Harry is expanding his friendship horizens at the same time that Ron is finding the leader within himself.
Just my two knuts.
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 8:40 am (#2047 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio. S.E. Jones
I am not quite sure about this. Love is a theme in the series, and as someone pointed out, loving yourself does not help. Thus you need others. I think the separation seen in OotP is an obstacle that need to be overcome before victory can be achieved, not a way of growing stronger. But I do agree that expanding his circles of friends is a good thing.
The separating of Harry from the trio is very ambiguous as described in the book. The jealousy over the prefect badge is short lived, but his anger over not being told is not. He does connect more closely to Ginny and Luna, and his respect for Neville is rising. But none of them were really wanted for the DoM expedition. That was supposed to be a trio thing. Harry also gets more friends everywhere but in Slytherin via the DA.
Harry also keeps more things to himself now then earlier.
But, Hermione, despite of all this, is in my view growing as the single most important person in Harry’s life. Whenever he does tell his friends anything, she is usuallythe one to be told. The two exceptions are that he spoke to Sirius about James and spoke to Luna and Sir Nicholas at the end of the book. She is the one that understands Harry’s reactions to be kept in the dark early in the book, opposes DD about telling Harry things, but she is overruled. She is the one that organise the DA, that is important in keeping Harry sane. She is also the one to organise Skeeter’s interview, which also is important to Harry. She is the one Harry discuss Cho with. And she is the one to cancel her skiing trip to get Harry to talk during Christmas. And she is the one to pop up in Harry’s mind at different times. Ron is seems a bit more distant, but to me it looks like Hermione is not.
And as for Ron growing, that is also ambiguous. He was given the prefect badge, but everyone but Molly was surprised it was not Harry, and at the end of the book DD tells us they were right. And Ron does not seem to excel as a prefect. He is made keeper, but plays two disastrous matches and is on the verge of giving up before he succeeds. Realistically there is a 50% chance that the first match in next book is a disaster, and 50% chance that the success continues.
A lot of things happen in OotP, and there is many different ways JKR may let the story continue. Time will show.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 10:49 am (#2048 of 2916)
Harry lets things happen for the most part (passive). Hermione gets it done. I don't think anyone disputes the significance of their friendship or that Harry relies on Hermione more than Ron. Just now, Harry is branching out because he has to. Hermione and Ron can't spend all of their time with him anymore.
All ickle Ronniekins needs is a bit of self confidence. I think he'll be fine, unless he gets put under the Imperious Curse or something (but that is fodder for another thread).
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Chris. - Aug 20, 2004 10:56 am (#2049 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio.- S.E. Jones.
Agreed. Ron and Hermione may help in HbP but in book seven, it's going to be Harry on his own.
I don't think Harry depends on anyone more than the other. Ron and Hermione both have their different attributes. Hermione being the "heads down to work" type while Ron is easy-going. It all depends in what mood Harry is in. IMO, Harry will never have to make a choice between the two of them.
Tornedo!? Speechless here. Not a H/HR 'shipper anymore?! HEALER SPROUT!! HEALER SPROUT!! *carted off to St Mungos* What 'ship for Harry do you prefer now?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 11:02 am (#2050 of 2916)
I'm becoming partial to the Harry/Pansy ship myself.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"Anyone can cook"
Yes, Fawkes. Please post. It should be fun!
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Padfoot - Aug 18, 2004 11:26 am (#2002 of 2916)
Marcus, just read your fan fiction. Very nice. I have not read you writings before, got to go check out what else you have written.
I was surprised to see the Luna 'ship developing, but hey why not? I see as much chance of Luna, Pansy, Susan or Parvati being in a 'ship with Harry as anybody else. I see Harry dating a few girls before the end of book 7 too. I still can't see him settling down with any one girl. Then again, he is 16 (or will be shortly).
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Kasse - Aug 18, 2004 12:03 pm (#2003 of 2916)
Even though I do not support the ship of either H/P or H/L, I did really enjoy your fanfic Marcus - it made me smile.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 18, 2004 12:16 pm (#2004 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Thank-you for all your kind comments about the fanfic.
I wrote it primarily to answer those who have difficulty seeing how a H/P 'ship might develop in the last two books. Far too many people seem to think that Pansy has to show up at Hogwarts in the beginning of HBP completely reformed and all Miss Goody-two-shoes. Give Rowling some credit! It's going to be a long haul before Pansy gets to the point where she and Harry can get together, say Christmas of Book-7.
In the meantime, what is Harry supposed to do? Be a monk? Not a chance. He has plenty of time to have a hormonal crush or two before it dawns on him that Pansy is the girl he wants.
I agree that 17 is a bit early to be choosing life partners, but his parents did all right.
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 12:26 pm (#2005 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
P.P.S: Has any one noticed I'm no longer a H/Hr (romantic)'shipper?
I thought so, but I didn't want you to realise what you were doing, so I was afraid to say anything. However, you can imagine I had a few comments on the tip of my tongue. Does this mean you're once again on the good ship R/Hr?
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The One - Aug 18, 2004 12:30 pm (#2006 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
tornedo
P.P.S: Has any one noticed I'm no longer a H/Hr (romantic)'shipper?
Betrayal! You are worse then Ron!
:-)
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Kasse - Aug 18, 2004 12:42 pm (#2007 of 2916)
Aly, like you I did not want to say anything because Tornedo was a hard core H/Hr shipper.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 18, 2004 12:44 pm (#2008 of 2916)
Nice fanfic Marcus. Perhaps the highest compliment I can pay you is that reading it set off a harsh spasm of withdrawals. I want my Book 6!!!!!
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 6:50 pm (#2009 of 2916)
Hi, I'm back. I think my active time is different to yours. I had a hard time to sleep..
And thanks for the replies, LoonyLuna and The One..
and sorry for not commenting about Prefect Marcus's fanfic.. You know what? I simply don't want to think about H/P ship.. I don't like it.. Just it's not my taste.
And can I talk about the problem I brought last night, though it looked like a slightly old topic now..
An idea hit on me during my hard trying to sleep..
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! ----"What do you think about this?" Hermione demanded of Ron, and Harry was reminded irresistibly of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place. (from Ch.29 in OoP)-----
A 15 year old boy being treated like a henpecked, middle aged husband by his supposed crush? It make me feel like shouting "Run Ron! Run for your life!"
(And honestly, this has nothing to do with shipping H/Hr, these kind of things are fun to read about, but there are parts of the Molly/Arthur relationship I hate when I see it in real people.)
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by The One
"Run Ron! Run for your life!" I like this expression because Ron seemd to play a rather comic and surrounding roll in the OoP.. Neville looked more important than him.. Alas, please Jo, give more respect to our old companion next time..
Like The One, Harry seemd not very approving for the Weasleys relationship.. then, did he feel somewhat uneasy at the scene above? Probably.
If so, maybe this scene is not about Ron and Hermione, but about Harry's feeling..
Just an opinion. :-)
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True Love - Aug 18, 2004 7:38 pm (#2010 of 2916)
I hope the boys mature a bit or wise-up about girls. I hope Harry and Ron are not true reps. of British boys although I suspect they are when I think back on the boys I dated in high school... The French boys were much more fun. I still can't see Harry with any of the girls in his current circle of friends. I think the next person he dates will be a new comer, not a first year but someone new to the school. Any chance the boys will get a crush on a future female teacher just as the girls did with a former DADA teacher? Could be cute.
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 8:18 pm (#2011 of 2916)
True Love, you reminds me what I thought last night.. How about Harry's dating with a Muggle girl? An open-minded, bright, vivid, favorable, approving Muggle girl.. perhaps after his victory over LV..
A Muggle girl may be better for him, because she won't remind him of bad memories at least less than Witch girls..
Well, I know a Muggle girl doesn't look like a possible match for him or other main characters so far.. but interesting assumption, isn't it? :-(
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Sir Tornado - Aug 18, 2004 8:39 pm (#2012 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Tornedo, I'm very sorry that you have changed your heart.. Anyway, I have to say that the Independence Day of Korea is 15. August.. but thanks for the congratulation! -- Time Traveller
Does this mean you're once again on the good ship R/Hr? -- Star Crossed. (Once again? When was the last time? BTW, you've got the adjective good ship to the wrong 'ship. H/Hr is supposed to be the good 'Ship)
Betrayal! You are worse then Ron! -- The One (NO I'M NOT. I never said H/Hr are going to form a Romantic relationship. Never in so many words any way.)
Aly, like you I did not want to say anything because Tornedo was a hard core H/Hr shipper. -- Kasse (Was? Kasse, I'm still alive )
I just said I'm not a H/Hr 'Shipper any more. I still support them. Yeah, I know about the Independence day. I guess my post appeared on 16th because of time zones. Which Time Zone do we use on this Forum anyway?
Anyway, as much as I hate Ron, I do think there's a minute (0.00001%) possibility for a R/Hr 'ship. I personally now 'Ship Harry/Minor Character; Hermione/Terry Boot and Ron/Grave Stone.
Now, I'm tired of saying again and again that, to me, the Ar/Mo 'ship looks more like H/Hr 'ship. We've seen Arthur argue only twice; while Ron and Hermione are in perpetual disagreement. I guess if they did marry, they'd have trouble deciding the wedding date, the wedding cake, the Honeymoon destination, the Church, the house even maybe the Gringotts account number; to name just a few. How will they ever succeed in marriage, I can't see at all.
Alas, please Jo, give more respect to our old companion next time.. -- Time Traveler
I guess it won't be in the next book. I mean, He'll die only in the 7th book won't he? That's when you'll get the time to respect him.
About H/P... JKR said Harry won't have a serious 'Ship with anyone. So, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed Marcus.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 18, 2004 8:45 pm (#2013 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 18, 2004 8:46 pm
About H/P... JKR said Harry won't have a serious 'Ship with anyone. So, I'm afraid you'll be disappointed Marcus. (Tornedo)
Really? What's the reference? I am aware where she says he won't have one in HBP, but does she say he won't in book7 as well?
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Upulwan - Aug 18, 2004 9:25 pm (#2014 of 2916)
Do tell, I'd like to know that too. (Not because I think H/P a good idea...)
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Time Traveler - Aug 18, 2004 9:50 pm (#2015 of 2916)
------Yeah, I know about the Independence day. I guess my post appeared on 16th because of time zones. --------- Tornedo
Oh, you're very careful.. 10 points to Tornedo. :-)
--------JKR said Harry won't have a serious 'Ship with anyone.------
Well, I don't know whether she would do or not.. but I won't be disappointed even if Harry's going out with nobody..
That may seem likelier since he have to go through harder and harder trials.. At the end of OoP, he thought the affair with Cho was a completely trivial and.. mundane(?) thing and so did I.. I think he will continue to have the similar feeling about things like that for some time..
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 5:38 am (#2016 of 2916)
Do tell, I'd like to know that too. (Not because I think H/P a good idea...) -- Ulpuwan.
Ditto, except of course the part about H/P.
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KWeldon - Aug 19, 2004 6:53 am (#2017 of 2916)
This isn't the first time I've heard someone say that JKR mentioned Harry wouldn't have a serious relationship, and I wanted proof then, too. I wonder if some are paraphrasing her comment that he'd definitely be busy during the next two books, but what's life without a little romance? I believe this was the World Book Day chat, or whatever it was called.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 7:11 am (#2018 of 2916)
Yes, the World Book Day chat is the only thing that springs to my mind and all it says is "what's life without romance?" It do not think it says that its monksville for Harry in 6, but lots of snogging in 7.
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Hermy-own - Aug 19, 2004 7:20 am (#2019 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Tornedo, I think this forum uses American Western time i.e. 5 hours behind American Eastern and 8 hours behind GMT (London).
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LooneyLuna - Aug 19, 2004 7:27 am (#2020 of 2916)
Loopy Lupin - "lots of snogging in 7."
Harry can use the Room of Requirement as his Bachelor Pad.
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Time Traveler - Aug 19, 2004 7:55 am (#2021 of 2916)
"what's life without romance?" ------ Loopy Lupin
Well, I don't think a life without any romance is completely worthless.. However, a teenager story without any romance, can be completely worthless.. I agree. :-)
What I wanted to say was that a serious unshakable romantic relationship doesn't need to be essential for Harry's life in the following books. He is very young and even younger accepting the assumption that wizard/witches seem to live about twice longer than Muggles. (I read this from somewhere.) Well, marriage at your early age may be a common custom in the Wizarding society. See the Weasleys or the Potters.. I heard they are not old compared to thier children's age. Or I think people tend to marry early when the world is insecure..
IMHO it is possible that JKR just gives some clues about romantic ships and remains the results open even in the end of the 7th book. She said she really loved to read fans' diverse theories.. :-)
BTW, even though those relationships JKR will show us are not very firm, I think they will give Harry more comfort and stability. Well, they should do. :-)
I said Sirius's death made a dating with a girl somewht trivial, but I actually think the vice-versa is possible. Sometimes love makes people blind to surroundings but love itself.. The loss can be offseted by the gain..
I just hope that any of the relationships of our main characters would not hurt anyone..
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 7:56 am (#2022 of 2916)
Hehe Looney.
Actually, the forum is on Pacific Standard Time which is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. So, when I post this, it will show approx. 7:57 a.m., but it is 10:57 on the East Coast where I am. (Sorry, but I'm an insufferable know-it-all.)
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Kasse - Aug 19, 2004 8:22 am (#2023 of 2916)
Just a thought. You think at the end of the seventh book she will leave us knowing exactly who and who are shipping or will she leave that hanging and let this argument continue on and on forever?
I for one would not be pleased if she left it hanging. I would like a solid ending even if it is not the ships that I support.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 19, 2004 9:21 am (#2024 of 2916)
Oh, I'll be very put out if I'm left hanging. At the same time, I don't want an "epilogue" telling me that Harry lived to be 150, fathered 12 children with his lovely wife Pansy (
), enjoyed a 25 year run as minister of magic, and then retired to be headmaster at hogwarts for the rest of his days. I'd prefer them all left at age 17-18 with whatever 'ships are happening at the time firmly in place. (That way, you see, if Rowling gets the urge to return to Hogwarts years from now, she pick up right there rather cleanly.) - - - - - - - - - -
Czarina II - Aug 19, 2004 9:44 am (#2025 of 2916)
Loony, JKR said that she's already written an epilogue, however it goes.
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 19, 2004 9:46 am (#2026 of 2916)
I agree Loopy Lupin. I hate many movie sequels of movies that were never meant to be more than one. Because they were a hit, they try to continue the story, and if there was a romance involved, the sequel almost always ruins it for me. I'd much rather imagine their future myself.
I feel that if there is a R/H ship, it can be a side story that doesn't affect the final outcome of the books too much. However, I believe if Harry has any more romances, it will directly affect the outcome. Especially because it seems that love will play a part in Voldemort's downfall. Harry has many people who love him, but nothing can match the intensity of romantic love. Well, there is parent/child love, but that part has already played out with Lily's sacrifice. It will have to be something different this time around.
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 9:56 am (#2027 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I feel that if there is a R/H ship, it can be a side story that doesn't affect the final outcome of the books too much. However, I believe if Harry has any more romances, it will directly affect the outcome. Especially because it seems that love will play a part in Voldemort's downfall.
I agree on this one. Ron's girlfriend, whoever that might be will probably be a side story, while if Harry gets a lasting girlfriend, that relationship will probably be important to the main plot.
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Padfoot - Aug 19, 2004 11:22 am (#2028 of 2916)
Edited by Aug 19, 2004 11:22 am
I think Jo will wrap up the story and include the 'shipping information as well. She has mentioned before (somewhere) that she enjoys reading the debates back and forth on who will end up with whom. Whatever ending she writes, it will be good. I do not think she will leave us hanging for more information. Nor do I think she will write any more Harry books after book 7. Although I would love it if I were wrong about books 8, 9, 10...548.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:02 pm (#2029 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Once again? When was the last time? BTW, you've got the adjective good ship to the wrong 'ship. H/Hr is supposed to be the good 'Ship
Could have sworn you said you were R/Hr Pre-OP (Anyone else think of pre-operation when they see that?). Plus, I used the right adjective. R/Hr's ship name is Good Ship R/Hr. Whoever named it that should be smacked. We need something more creative.
Now, I'm tired of saying again and again that, to me, the Ar/Mo 'ship looks more like H/Hr 'ship. We've seen Arthur argue only twice; while Ron and Hermione are in perpetual disagreement.
You have to be fair. We don't see Arthur and Molly as much as we see Ron and Hermione.
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 1:14 pm (#2030 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
R/Hr's ship name is Good Ship R/Hr. Whoever named it that should be smacked. We need something more creative.
Perhaps you will find comfort in that HMS Pumpkin Pie is hardly any better. :-)
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Hermy-own - Aug 19, 2004 1:33 pm (#2031 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
The One: HMS Pumpkin Pie - Hahahaha!!
I've read some funny things on this forum but I doubt any has made me laugh for so long.
EDIT: still laughing...
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:38 pm (#2032 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Perhaps you will find comfort in that HMS Pumpkin Pie is hardly any better. :-)
Yeah, I heard that before. It might not be better, but it is more creative. What does HMS stand for (Harry/Mary Sue? Kidding.)? And also, where did Pumpkin Pie come from?
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Hermy-own - Aug 19, 2004 1:46 pm (#2033 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Star Crossed, all British ships are named 'HMS something'. HMS stands for 'His/Her Majesty's Ship' depending on whether it was a King or a Queen that "baptised" (sorry can't think of the actual term) the ship.
Pumpkin Pie - sorry, can't help you with that one but it sure was funny.
EDIT:
Correction - I think the His/Her part depends on the gender of the current monarch. Anyone know for sure?
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 1:50 pm (#2034 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
HMS = His/Her Majesty's Ship
A prefix added to the name of all British navy ships, just like USS in the US Navy or KNM in the Norwegian Navy. (Bet not many of you knew the last one!)
The name Pumpkin Pie is supposed to come from some FanFic where Harry and Hermione kisses just after a feast, and it tastes like, yes you can guess.
( hermy-own I am pretty sure that His/Hers refers to the current monarch as he/she "owns" the entire Navy.)
You can find this stuff on Portkey, but I am unable to find the link just now.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:55 pm (#2035 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Thanks! I never would have guessed.
Aha, I thought it came from PoA when they hid behind the pumpkins. Least your ship has an interesting...er...name history?
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 2:05 pm (#2036 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
You are welcome!
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True Love - Aug 19, 2004 4:28 pm (#2037 of 2916)
I thought I read in an interview - you know where the kids ask questions - that Harry would have time for romance and some kisses too in the next book. Afterall, she is trying to show what it is like for a teenage boy to go through the trials and tribulations of all other teenagers - but in this magical dark world. I will look it us and see if I can copy it for you "none believers".
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Time Traveler - Aug 19, 2004 7:34 pm (#2038 of 2916)
Here I have a question.. Did you all read the books in English?
I'm not a native English-speaker, as you guess from what I've written so far, but I've read all HP books in English, US addition, for some reasons. And I'm a POSITIVE H/Hr shipper.
On the contrary, when my best friend and other people who I know have read the books in our language talks about the romantic ship, it seems to me that they simply believe R/Hr ship is conclusive.
Well, I haven't read the translated books except some paragraphs, so I can't criticize those translators but I read some articles complaining about some parts of the translation...
I don't want to believe this, but our different interpretaion of the ships partly can place the responsibility on our different texts?
I'm just curious... :-)
--------------------------------------------------
Especially because it seems that love will play a part in Voldemort's downfall. Harry has many people who love him, but nothing can match the intensity of romantic love. Well, there is parent/child love, but that part has already played out with Lily's sacrifice. It will have to be something different this time around.
-------------------------------------------------------
coolbeans3131
Hmm.... will we see another noble death of sacrifice for Harry? Or almost deathlike wound.. or Harry's sacrifice for his loving people and the world? Just a thought..
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Crisz - Aug 19, 2004 7:56 pm (#2039 of 2916)
I personally don't want to see any relations formed, especially HP/HG & RW/HG because they are the trio! I mean, if two of them got together, then there would be one man out, you know? The trio would be ruined.
Remember in OotP when Hermione & Ron left Harry on the train because they were prefects? Didn't Harry feel lost? And I wouldn't doubt a little upset (justifiable so, I should think!).
And can you imagine how jealous Ron would be if Hermione spent all her time with Harry? Perhaps he'd become the traitor in book 6 & 7 if that happened...
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 19, 2004 8:55 pm (#2040 of 2916)
Well, I can't see Ron becoming a traitor, but I can see him making a big mistake because of his jealousy. Ron has some resentments and JKR has let us see them in every single book, right from when we first meet him on the train. I think it will be significant.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 19, 2004 9:49 pm (#2041 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Time Traveler, I can't comment about translated versions, but I read the US versions of the book and saw the obvious conclusion to be R/Hr. I think it is very much a personal opinion sort of thing. I don't know how much that helps, or if it does at all, but there you go.
Crisz, I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio. However, I do think his friends will be majorly responsible for getting him through everything so he can face Voldemort alone. I think we've seen this slow seperation for awhile now. In PS the Trio went through the trapdoor together but Harry stood alone at the end. In CoS, Hermione is taken out toward the end of the book (petrified) so that Ron has to go on with Harry to face Aragog, etc, but Harry still stands alone in the Chamber. In PoA, Ron is taken out toward the end (broken leg) and so Hermione has to go on with Harry to go back in time and save Buckbeak and Sirius. (There is no real reason for Harry to be alone here because Voldemort isn't present; however, Harry is alone in that he, alone, can cast the Patronus charm to save himself and Sirius. Hermione couldn't help with that.) In GoF, Harry faces the three Triwizard tasks alone and is alone in the graveyard at the end of the book. He also starts to feel mentally seperated (because of his grief and the trauma he has been through) from his friends. In OotP we start to see more of a physical representation of this seperation when Harry boards the train without Ron and Hermione with him for the first time. They are also seperated from him by being made prefects (they have Prefect duties, Harry is jealous...). We also see some mental seperation going on as Harry keeps many of his dreams from them, shuts them out at many points (mostly due to raging hormones I would guess), as Harry goes through a great deal of mental stress, etc. We also have Harry tell us how he feels like he is in a world apart from everyone around him after he hears the Prophecy and that he feels he is a "marked man" (another seperation). I think the next step is to further seperate Harry mentally and physically in HBP.
What does this have to do with 'shipping? Well, Harry's two best friends dating would certainly be a concise way of furthering this pattern. Harry would almost push himself away a little, even if his two best friends didn't, because he would feel like a third wheel everywhere they went. This would also allow Harry to strengthen other friendships in an attempt to compensate for what he feels he is lacking from Ron and Hermione's absense.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 19, 2004 10:46 pm (#2042 of 2916)
Ah but if Ginny got together with Harry... then it'll be Ron's sister and Hermione's best girl friend? When Harry gives Ginny the respect that she deserves (she is no longer a little girl) and begins to confide in her too, it'll be quite natural for the four to discuss secrets and work out problems and strategies. We get the impression that Ginny and Hermione shares their girl secrets with each other and Ginny being Ron's sister and Harry's girlfriend would be a natural fit.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 19, 2004 10:55 pm (#2043 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I don't think we'll see Harry in any kind of significant 'ship until after Voldemort is out of the picture, though we might see developing feelings somewhere. I could be wrong, though....
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Time Traveler - Aug 20, 2004 1:33 am (#2044 of 2916)
And can you imagine how jealous Ron would be if Hermione spent all her time with Harry? ------------- Crisz
I think Ron could be jealous.. However, when I think about OoP, Ron didn't look very jealous about the fact of Hermione's sharing a lot of time and thoughts with Harry but him. See, Hogsmead interview, the first Grawp meeting, taking Umbridge to the centaurs, and the battle in the DoM.. All these parts were important in OoP's storyline and in these scenes, Harry was with Hermione alone (at least among the Trio) for some reasons..
One reason is that Ron was very busy in practicing or playing Quidditch. It seems Ron played some minor roll at the large storyline of Harry's struggles, but I think this was a kind of development for Ron himself..
Yes, he was always a "minor" character but the difference is before he did less things by Harry and now he is doing something different apart from him..
I can't think Ron's seperating from the other Trio was something unavoidable if JKR wanted him to join them. Well, this WAS unavoidable for the future storyline?
--------------------------------------------------
I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio.
----------------------------- S.E. Jones
Okay, I also think Harry will face Voldemort alone and he has done it so far. Eventually the fight against Voldemort is his own fate and nobody can take his place.. (Every human is alone.. ;-> ) However, it turned out LOVE was the most important ingredient to vanquish LV, so at the end of this story when I believe Voldmort will lose his entire power in some way, Harry really needs someone with whom he can show LV what the real love is.. whether it is a kind of romantic ship or strong friendship or else..
Well? I don't think that self-love is definitely not a kind of love we have to take into account.. :-)
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 20, 2004 6:46 am (#2045 of 2916)
Here I have a question.. Did you all read the books in English?-- Time Traveler
I'll only speak for myself here, but you think too much of me. Unlike you, I don't have the advantage and accomplishment of speaking more than one language, so English it was for me. (And, your English is quite good by the way.) Anyway, much like S.E. Jones, I read the U.S. English versions and came to the obvious R/H conclusion.
I think its a given that, in the final battle scene, it will be Harry v. LV with no trio or Death Eaters either. So, I don't think that if two of the trio pair off it will make much difference for the end scene.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 6:52 am (#2046 of 2916)
"I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio." S.E. Jones
I agree. Also, Harry's separation from Ron and Hermione opens him up to make friends with other people - that whole "unite the houses" thing. Notice that he's not just asking Ron and Hermione for help anymore - he's getting help from Ginny, Fred and George. He finds comfort from Luna instead of Hermione after Sirius' death. Harry is expanding his friendship horizens at the same time that Ron is finding the leader within himself.
Just my two knuts.
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 8:40 am (#2047 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio. S.E. Jones
I am not quite sure about this. Love is a theme in the series, and as someone pointed out, loving yourself does not help. Thus you need others. I think the separation seen in OotP is an obstacle that need to be overcome before victory can be achieved, not a way of growing stronger. But I do agree that expanding his circles of friends is a good thing.
The separating of Harry from the trio is very ambiguous as described in the book. The jealousy over the prefect badge is short lived, but his anger over not being told is not. He does connect more closely to Ginny and Luna, and his respect for Neville is rising. But none of them were really wanted for the DoM expedition. That was supposed to be a trio thing. Harry also gets more friends everywhere but in Slytherin via the DA.
Harry also keeps more things to himself now then earlier.
But, Hermione, despite of all this, is in my view growing as the single most important person in Harry’s life. Whenever he does tell his friends anything, she is usuallythe one to be told. The two exceptions are that he spoke to Sirius about James and spoke to Luna and Sir Nicholas at the end of the book. She is the one that understands Harry’s reactions to be kept in the dark early in the book, opposes DD about telling Harry things, but she is overruled. She is the one that organise the DA, that is important in keeping Harry sane. She is also the one to organise Skeeter’s interview, which also is important to Harry. She is the one Harry discuss Cho with. And she is the one to cancel her skiing trip to get Harry to talk during Christmas. And she is the one to pop up in Harry’s mind at different times. Ron is seems a bit more distant, but to me it looks like Hermione is not.
And as for Ron growing, that is also ambiguous. He was given the prefect badge, but everyone but Molly was surprised it was not Harry, and at the end of the book DD tells us they were right. And Ron does not seem to excel as a prefect. He is made keeper, but plays two disastrous matches and is on the verge of giving up before he succeeds. Realistically there is a 50% chance that the first match in next book is a disaster, and 50% chance that the success continues.
A lot of things happen in OotP, and there is many different ways JKR may let the story continue. Time will show.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 10:49 am (#2048 of 2916)
Harry lets things happen for the most part (passive). Hermione gets it done. I don't think anyone disputes the significance of their friendship or that Harry relies on Hermione more than Ron. Just now, Harry is branching out because he has to. Hermione and Ron can't spend all of their time with him anymore.
All ickle Ronniekins needs is a bit of self confidence.
I think he'll be fine, unless he gets put under the Imperious Curse or something (but that is fodder for another thread). - - - - - - - - - -
Chris. - Aug 20, 2004 10:56 am (#2049 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I think JKR is deliberately seperating Harry from his two friends bit by bit so that he can stand alone at the end of it all. I think he will face Voldemort alone, not as a member of the Trio.- S.E. Jones.
Agreed. Ron and Hermione may help in HbP but in book seven, it's going to be Harry on his own.
I don't think Harry depends on anyone more than the other. Ron and Hermione both have their different attributes. Hermione being the "heads down to work" type while Ron is easy-going. It all depends in what mood Harry is in. IMO, Harry will never have to make a choice between the two of them.
Tornedo!? Speechless here. Not a H/HR 'shipper anymore?! HEALER SPROUT!! HEALER SPROUT!! *carted off to St Mungos* What 'ship for Harry do you prefer now?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 11:02 am (#2050 of 2916)
I'm becoming partial to the Harry/Pansy ship myself.
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 11:07 am (#2051 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Harry lets things happen for the most part (passive).
That is very true. And this may not even change as he gets older, as so many things happens to Harry all the time that it would overwhelm anyone.
Harry needs Hermione, he needs her badly, as a partner in his struggle. Any development in the story that isolates Harry from Hermione will make the story very dark indeed. So far this has not happened, because not only is Hermione the most important person in Harry's life, Hermione has also chosen to let Harry be the most important person in her life. The question is: will it remain so? I think it will, but JKR decides.
This is the reason that I do not believe there is room in the story for any boy friend other than Harry for Hermione. She will fall for him or stay single until the struggle is over.
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Chris. - Aug 20, 2004 11:10 am (#2052 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
So far this has not happened, because not only is Hermione the most important person in Harry's life, Hermione has also chosen to let Harry be the most important person in her life.- The One
Hermione is not the most important person in Harry's life. She and Ron are of equal footing, both are dear to Harry. I agree that Hermione has put Harry first but Harry has different people of importance in his life, Hermione, IMO, not being at the top.
--And if you don't mind me asking, what is your avatar, The One? I say something related to the Matrix, my brother says it isn't.
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 11:22 am (#2053 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
You are right. It is from the second Matrix film.
It shows Trinity (the heroine) entering the Matrix despite that she was supposed not to, in order to save Neo (the hero) and the rest when their mission goes wrong. Her action does save the mission, but gets Trinity in big trouble, and in his turn Neo pulls a tremendous stunt to save her.
As you might guess, my name and my avatar indicates that I see Harry/Hermione in a sort of Neo/Trinity like partnership in the later books.
But I guess many disagree with me on that one.
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Crisz - Aug 20, 2004 11:29 am (#2054 of 2916)
Hmm, well now I don't know...S.E. Jones - you made some really good points. However, there's also that argument where Ron leaves the picture and Hermione and Harry are together (they go fighting together in OotP in the Department of Mysteries, into the woods in OotP with Umbridge, go back in time in PoA).
I think Harry has too much on his plate with Voldemort to get involved with love.
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Chris. - Aug 20, 2004 11:29 am (#2055 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hmm... I suppose I can see an analogy there. But remember; Neo had to depend on Morpheus as well as Trinity. And then Neo had to go it alone at the end, while the others fought.
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Padfoot - Aug 20, 2004 12:07 pm (#2056 of 2916)
Ok, so much for me seeing Matrix three. LOL.
I like the point brought up that R/H pair up to allow Harry to further separate himself and prepare to defeat Voldemort. I definitely think they will help him, but he will stand alone. Of course it would be nice if R/H begin their romantic relationship soon and not wait until the end of book 7, as that will not help Harry any.
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 12:10 pm (#2057 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Ok, so much for me seeing Matrix three.
Ooops. Sorry.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 12:36 pm (#2058 of 2916)
I think Hermione is the sister that Harry never had (as Ron is a brother to Harry). She pushes him, wants him to do well and is bossy, motherly even. He tolerates it and shuts her out when he gets tired of her nagging. I apologize, I do think Hermione is a nag and a goody-two shoes which makes her not right for Harry.
Harry needs a bad girl. I'm thinking Pansy.
As for the final showdown, Harry will not be standing with Hermione or Ron - they either can't go or will be taken out. I think it will be Neville. SURPRISE!
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 2:50 pm (#2059 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But remember; Neo had to depend on Morpheus as well as Trinity.
Yes, but Ron is no Morpheus, that is more Dumbledores's role.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 20, 2004 4:23 pm (#2060 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Prongs: Hermione is not the most important person in Harry's life. She and Ron are of equal footing, both are dear to Harry.
I never said that Harry would have to depend on loving himself to defeat Voldemort, just that he would have to face Voldemort alone. I think we will see Harry pull up a self-less love, yes, but a familial or fraternal love. Ron and Hermione are both dear to Harry, as Prongs pointed out, and I think that is important. I think what will save the wizarding world will be Harry's wish to save those he loves; not any one person, but all of them. He will want to protect his friends (Neville, Luna, etc.) and the friends he views as family (Ron, Hermione, Ginny, the other Weasleys, Hagrid, Lupin, etc.) from Voldemort and realize he is the last line of defence and will thus be able to defeat the enemy.
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Time Traveler - Aug 20, 2004 6:26 pm (#2061 of 2916)
Oh, oh, oh, I don't think Harry needs a bad girl.T_T I absolutely believe he needs a bright comfortable helpful understanding girl. Please don't make his life harder by adding another burden on his shoulder.. His heart has been broken enough...!!
Ah, how's my portrait? I'm still a H/Hr shipper strongly.:-) Aren't they so well-matched? (giggle)
I think Harry may face Voldemort at the end of 6th and 7th, but before the ending scenes, he's getting to get more and more friends and supporters on his side. In the last chapter of OoP, he had thought he now was alone and apart from others because he was a 'marked' man. However, at the last last scene, what happend? Just everybody, well, not everybody but many friends of his just came to welcome him back and warn/threaten the Dursleys. (Oh, I love Moody!)
And at the fight in MoM, he didn't fight with Voldemort alone. He had been alone, but soon Dumbledore had come and fought.,
Let's see The Lord of the Rings. Frodo is fated to play the most important roll, however actually he didn't do many things. Other guys had battle and Sam, oh really Sam fought for him almost all the time! Without Sam, he couldn't even get to at the mountain.
Why not will something similar happen to Harry? Without friends and people who love Harry and Hary loves, he could not go forward even one step IMO. I just don't want to see that he retreat into himself and pushed to face Voldemort unwillingly. I think he has to go confront Voldemort for his people at his own will.
He really needs being with people not separated from them all along.
Just my thought.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 20, 2004 8:35 pm (#2062 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Tornedo!? Speechless here. Not a H/HR 'shipper anymore?! HEALER SPROUT!! HEALER SPROUT!! *carted off to St Mungos* What 'ship for Harry do you prefer now? -- Prongs
At this moment, I'm leaning towards Harry having saperate flings with Susan Bones and Parvati Patil in the next books.
Here I have a question.. Did you all read the books in English?
I'm not a native English-speaker, as you guess from what I've written so far, but I've read all HP books in English, US addition, for some reasons. And I'm a POSITIVE H/Hr shipper. On the contrary, when my best friend and other people who I know have read the books in our language talks about the romantic ship, it seems to me that they simply believe R/Hr ship is conclusive. -- Time Traveller
In which language have your friends read the books? I've read the books in a second language too; but there's no fun in it really, JKR's magic doesn't seem to be so strong when read in an alternate language. I only read 'till the Christmas in PS before giving up. The only thing that I really found funny was the names those translators had given to various magical objects... Nothing on 'shipping though, there isn't in PS is there?
Could have sworn you said you were R/Hr Pre-OP -- Star Crossed
I said I was a bit undecided before OotP; NOT a R/Hr supporter. I have been a H/Hr supporter since PS (They look cute together don't they?) And after PoA movie I am absolutely sure there won't be a R/Hr 'ship.
Now; I don't know the exact sentences, but in one of the interviews, some one asked JKR if there was any romance for Harry, and JKR said that "Harry would be too busy for romance" However, she did add that Harry would have a "couple of dates" and in the end said "What's life without a bit of romance?". I'm sure this interview has been mentioned before on this thread. (Can't find it using search) I think it's somewhere during July 2 or 3.
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The One - Aug 21, 2004 2:54 am (#2063 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I never said that Harry would have to depend on loving himself to defeat Voldemort, just that he would have to face Voldemort alone.
I know. My formulations are sometimes not to subtle, no offense meant.
As I see it, Harry survived the first attack by LV and his encounter with Quirrel in PS because he was loved. He survived the dementor attack in OotP because of his love for Ron and Hermione, he survived LV possession because of his love for Sirius.
I think we will see Harry pull up a self-less love, yes, but a familial or fraternal love.
I think that even if Harry and Hermione do become a couple, Harry saving the world as a side effect of wanting to save his girl friend does not quite cut it. His love for his woman, if any, his friends and for "the good" in general, will all be important. But I do not see Harry as the loner hero. His connections to other people are a very important part of what makes him strong, in addition to his courage and his abilities. He has some "loner hero" traits now, and these need to be tuned down, not tuned up.
Therefore, his developing friendships with Neville, Luna and Ginny, are important. And therefore is what I see as developments in his relationship with Hermione very important, whether that develops into a romantic relationship or not. (But getting a serious girlfriend will add new aspects to Harry’s love.) And therfore his close friendship with Ron is important.
But I see some problems in the Ron/Harry friendship during OotP, Ron is a little more distant now than he used to be, and that is a bad thing. I also see a few loose ends regarding Ron's insecurities and apparent growth in OotP, that may increase those problems. Nevertheless I also believe that those problems will be resolved before the final showdown. (If Ron survive book 6)
But just for the record: I find your version of the storyline quite plausible. If JKR for any reason wants to somewhat isolating Harry from the trio, a Ron/Hermione relationship may be a way to achieve that. Depending of what effect the said isolation is supposed to have; the result may be anything from a subtle shift in trio dynamics to a major rift.
The purpose of this may be to develop Harry as a “loner Hero”, force Harry to expand his circle of close friends, create the setting for a romantic relationship with a girl other than Hermione, or any combination off these.
Your posts are very plausible and make perfectly sense to me, it is just that as I read the story, other storylines seems more probable.
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Time Traveler - Aug 21, 2004 5:12 am (#2064 of 2916)
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I think that even if Harry and Hermione do become a couple, Harry saving the world as a side effect of wanting to save his girl friend does not quite cut it. His love for his woman, if any, his friends and for "the good" in general, will all be important. But I do not see Harry as the loner hero. His connections to other people are a very important part of what makes him strong, in addition to his courage and his abilities. He has some "loner hero" traits now, and these need to be tuned down, not tuned up.
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Oh, I can't agree with you more, The One, unless I misunderstood your post completely.:-) However, it seems very unmistakable. :-)
And if any of my posts seemd offensive to other shippers, sorry about that. I've never meant that.>_<
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 7:17 am (#2065 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Oh, oh, oh, I don't think Harry needs a bad girl... Please don't make his life harder by adding another burden on his shoulder" - Time Traveller in response to the following comment by LooneyLuna:
"Harry needs a bad girl. I'm thinking Pansy."
Time Traveller, Luna describes Hermione as a "goody-two-shoes" in the same post. I think her reference to "a bad girl" for Harry simply means someone who isn't a goody-two-shoes i.e. someone who wouldn't be bossy or nagging (I doubt Luna meant "bad girl" in the literal sense) One would excpect Pansy, Ginny or Luna to fit that particular requirement better than Hermione but thats another arguement altogether
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LooneyLuna - Aug 21, 2004 8:07 am (#2066 of 2916)
Thank you hermy-own! When I said "bad girl" I didn't mean a girl that is bad/mean to Harry! I meant one that is more relaxed, isn't totally opposed to rule-breaking and that doesn't nag him half to death.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 22, 2004 4:15 am (#2067 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
When I said "bad girl" I didn't mean a girl that is bad/mean to Harry! I meant one that is more relaxed, isn't totally opposed to rule-breaking and that doesn't nag him half to death. -- LooneyLuna
Loony, Harry doesn't need any one at all. He has all the friends he'll need.
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Time Traveler - Aug 22, 2004 4:35 am (#2068 of 2916)
Well, I was half joking at that time, but sorry hermy-own and LooneyLuna, if it harmed your feeling. I also don't think LoonyLuna meant "a girl that is bad/mean to Harry" by that, but I still think "a girl that is bad/mean to anyone but Harry(especially without any reason)" is not very good for Harry.;-( Oh, I also know that's not what you meant, too.:-)
And about "totally opposed to rule-breaking and that doesn't nag him half to death", I don't think Hermione made Harry half to death. Ok, sometimes she made him very uncomfortable with what she said to him constantly, but I don't think it's completely her fault or mistake.
People say that a true friend is a friend who can point out his/her friend's fault instead of shutting one's eyes. Of course, they need some skills of pointing out not very offensively. I accept that Hermione needs some better skills of this, but IMO the biggest reason that her scolding made Harry uneasy was that she was saying exactly what his another part of mind was saying to him at the same time, not her scolding to Harry itself.
Moreover, I think almost all advices/nags of her turned out reasonable things. So, I believe Harry needs Hermione or her nags anyway.. Hermione seems to play a roll of kinda Superego/controller on Harry, because his own one seems to lose some power now, in my view.
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Star Crossed - Aug 22, 2004 5:33 am (#2069 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think Ron needs the nagging more than Harry does. Indeed, he hates it. Can anyone think of a time Harry responded to Hermione's nagging positively? There was the time in their third year with the Firebolt. Wait...no...he got mad at her then for letting such a horrible act happen (I did, too, actually...Anyone else?). In OP, he got so frusterated with her telling him to check if Sirius was at his house, he did, just so she would shut up. Did it help? No. Did it make him even more determined to save Sirius? Yes. Perhaps Hermione's nagging could help Harry if she worded herself differently. Harry needs to be manipulated to believe he was the one who came up with the idea, and he needs to believe it was a good idea. Hermione doesn't do this. The way she nags is the way that Ron wants to be told what to do.
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 5:57 am (#2070 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
In OP, he got so frusterated with her telling him to check if Sirius was at his house, he did, just so she would shut up. Did it help? No. Did it make him even more determined to save Sirius? Yes.
Actually, checking whether Sirius was at home or not is a sensible move, so sensible that the enemy had anticipated it. That was the reason it did not work It means that not only Harry, but also Hermione was outwitted by LV.
Can anyone think of a time Harry responded to Hermione's nagging positively?
Yes:
For a moment Harry was tempted to go with Dobby. He was halfway out of his seat, intending to hurry upstairs for his Invisibility Cloak when, not for the first time, a voice very much like Hermione's whispered in his ear: reckless. It was, after all, very late, he was exhausted, and had Snape's essay to finish.
'Not tonight, Dobby', said Harry reluctantly, sinking back into his chair. 'This is really important... I don't want to blow it, it'll need proper planning. Listen, can you just tell me exactly where this Room of Requirement is, and how to get in there?'
I know that the "Good Ship" crew are sick of this, but this example show that despite Harry often getting angry with Hermione when he get advise he does not like, he does value her opinions and judgement If he resented her as much as you think, why is "What would Hermione think?" a question that hits him at once when he must make a decision without her?
And of course:
'OK', said Hermione. 'Well then, Harry, you and I will be under the Invisibility Cloak and we'll sneak into the office and you can talk to Sirius-'
'He's not there, Hermione!'
'I mean, you can - can check whether Sirius is at home or not while I keep watch, I don't think you should be in there alone, Lee's already proved the windows a weak spot, sending those Nifflers through it.'
Even through his anger and impatience, Harry recognised Hermiones offer to accompany him into Umbridge's office as a sign of solidarity and loyalty.
'I... OK, thanks', he muttered.
He is angry, impatient, scared for what is happening to Sirius, Hermione is opposing him, and still he thanks her! It cannot really be that bad, can it?
The way she nags is the way that Ron wants to be told what to do.
Oh really? How do you know this? Ron resents Hermione nagging Harry, why do you expect him to react good to being nagged himself?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 22, 2004 6:50 am (#2071 of 2916)
I don't think that anyone disputes that Harry values Hermione as a friend. She does act as his conscience. But she does go overboard and won't let an issue drop. Think about the first time Harry was going to talk to Sirius from Umbridge's office in OotP. She nagged him to death all day long about it. He stopped talking to her. Regardless of whether she was right, she chose not to support Harry in this endeavor. Or, was she jealous that she wasn't consulted while compiling the plan with his other friends?
Harry needs a girl so he can cut loose and have some fun. Hermione is not that girl. Now, that doesn't mean that Harry can't marry Hermione later. Save Hermione for the serious ship and let Harry have some fun in school. That's what I say. Although, I really don't think that H/H belong together.
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True Love - Aug 22, 2004 6:59 am (#2072 of 2916)
I agree that Harry's friendship with Hermione will stay as a friendship. Falling in love with her will only complicate their relationship rather than strengthen it, even when they are older. He needs someone to have fun with, distract him from the trials of school and Voldie.
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 7:17 am (#2073 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Think about the first time Harry was going to talk to Sirius from Umbridge's office in OotP. She nagged him to death all day long about it. He stopped talking to her.
That is right. And Hermione's person-handling skills need to develop. But as you will have noted, arguing to the point where you do not speak for a short period seems to be the norm for some youngsters in the HP-universe, a single incident including Harry does not seem to be that important. My only point is that Harry seems to have much less problems with the nagging than you have.
Harry needs a girl so he can cut loose and have some fun.
But he also needs a girl that understands what he is going through, and who is willing do support him even if being Harry's girl friend will for much of the time be no fun at all. Whoever is Harry's girl friend is in for a rough time, not because Harry is a bad boy, but because Harry is in for a very rough time himself.
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Time Traveler - Aug 22, 2004 8:40 am (#2074 of 2916)
======== He needs someone to have fun with, distract him from the trials of school and Voldie. =========
Well, I'm not sure that Harry can really enjoy such a ship while going into a harder and harder time.. Cho distracted him from the trials of school and LV, but in the end it wasn't a very good ending, was it? And I think he can have fun with Ron, Hermione, and other comparably new friends still.
========== Whoever is Harry's girl friend is in for a rough time, not because Harry is a bad boy, but because Harry is in for a very rough time himself. ===========
This is why I think Cho/Harry relationship would and should not continue further.. Cho was definitely out of the way he usually struggled on. I don't think it's very plausible Harry will have a couple of relationships like this more. PERSONALLY, I don't want to see lots of Ordinary (short-lasting) boy-meets-girl stories handling importantly in HP books.
Lastly, this recent discussing about Hermione's nagging just reminded me of James/Lily relationship. Lily was not that approving to James at least in their 5th year.:-) Oh, I know that her disapproval is different from Hermione's. Just wanted to mention about J/L.
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Hermy-own - Aug 22, 2004 9:23 am (#2075 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"sorry hermy-own and LooneyLuna, if it harmed your feeling"
Time Traveller
Awww Time Traveller! hehe. Don't worry one bit; you didn't say anything the slightest bit offensive.
Hermione has been very helpful to Harry and should continue to be throughout the series. I'm not saying she would not be helpful if they were to 'ship, but things would certainly be more complicated between the two (you're right True Love). The dynamics of the trio would also be affected.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 22, 2004 9:29 am (#2076 of 2916)
Let it snow!
hermy-own: Hermione has been very helpful to Harry and should continue to be throughout the series. I'm not saying she would not be helpful if they were to 'ship, but things would certainly be more complicated between the two (you're right True Love). The dynamics of the trio would also be affected.
Well, as even most H/Hr 'shippers will admit that Ron likes Hermione even if they disagree about where Hermione's feelings lie, I think we can all assume that Ron would be very hurt if Harry and Hermione got together. So, not only would Harry and Hermione's relationship be potentially strained/complicated, but Harry and Ron's would definately be (not to mention Ron and Hermione's). In my opinion, Harry needs both of his two best friends, on equal footing, near and dear to him, not estranged in any way.....
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Crisz - Aug 22, 2004 9:40 am (#2077 of 2916)
"In my opinion, Harry needs both of his two best friends, on equal footing, near and dear to him, not estranged in any way..... " S.E. Jones
I couldn't agree with you more.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 10:23 am (#2078 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
In my opinion, Harry needs both of his two best friends, on equal footing, near and dear to him, not estranged in any way.....-S.E. Jones.
Wonderfully said, Sarah. I totally agree with you. Harry doesn't want to lose any of his friends, that being my reason for a non-H/Hr 'ship. If Harry proceeded to continue a relationship (in a love way) with Hermione, he would lose Ron as a friend, because, IMO, he fancys Hermione.
Most of us agree that Harry will not have a serious relationship, and JKR herself has agreed with us. ("He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?"). This suggests to me that he will have a few short flings, maybe the results of his increasing popularity.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 22, 2004 10:26 am (#2079 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I took the "little romance" line to suggest that we might see, perhaps, developing feelings somewhere (not Hermione, for the reasons given above, but perhaps with some other character though I doubt a relationship would be realized until Book 7 concluded).
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 10:30 am (#2080 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
OK, but assume that Hermione does have strong feelings for Harry, as I believe sha has, and tha Harry starts to return those feelings, as I assume he will, should they stay apart to appease Ron?
Or will this be a test on Ron's loyalty, that he would be able accept this development?
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Hermy-own - Aug 22, 2004 10:32 am (#2081 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
OK, on my next read-through i'll make an extra effort to grab any H/Hr 'ship hints. I certainly haven't picked up that vibe so far; Ron/Hermione has caught my attention in a big way!
Isn't it funny how some readers think H/Hr is a certainty, whilst others feel R/Hr just as strongly? You'd think we were reading different books! It's almost as if JKR has us wrapped round her little finger
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 10:36 am (#2082 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
OK, but assume that Hermione does have strong feelings for Harry, as I believe sha has, and tha Harry starts to return those feelings, as I assume he will, should they stay apart to appease Ron?- The One.
I think if Harry and Hermione really cared for Ron's friendship, they would try and remember him. I'm not saying their relationship, if it happens, would be revolve around Ron, I'm just saying that they may have to consider Ron.
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I Am Used Vlad - Aug 22, 2004 10:40 am (#2083 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
polly weasley: Will Harry fall for another girl in book six, or will he be too busy for romance? JK Rowling replies -> He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?
I've always found this answer to be rather ambiguous. Since we can only read JKR's response, it's hard to say if how import Harry's romance will be. I agree, though, that it won't be with anyone that would cause tension among the trio. To me, this rules out Hermione.
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 10:49 am (#2084 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Isn't it funny how some readers think H/Hr is a certainty, whilst others feel R/Hr just as strongly? You'd think we were reading different books!
In some way we are. Whats in the books mixes with what we already have in our head, and that mixture is unique for each and one of us.
You just need to have fun! That is the important point.
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Hermy-own - Aug 22, 2004 11:37 am (#2085 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Oh, reading the books is plenty of fun!
Accio HBP!
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Czarina II - Aug 22, 2004 11:11 pm (#2086 of 2916)
Nimrod -- I agree. A relationship between Hermione and Harry would destroy the Trio and certainly detract from the main plotline, which JKR has stated is not romantic. A relationship between Hermione and Ron would not destroy the Trio (and thus detract from the main plot) because Harry doesn't fancy Hermione like Ron does. Harry would be a bit let down by being the third wheel, but he has other friends now. He has Ginny, Neville, and Luna to start; he might spend more time hanging out with Seamus and Dean if Ron is, ahem, a bit late getting back to the dormitory once in awhile. ;-) Harry doesn't mind being alone, either. He doesn't like going to Hogsmeade by himself, but he doesn't seem to mind spending time alone in the common room, or talking with Hedwig, or whatever. On the other hand, Ron would resent Harry for taking Hermione from him and Hermione for choosing Harry over himself, so he would be miserable. He would make everyone miserable because of it, too. Everyone would be walking on eggshells around the Trio. Forget Voldemort!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 23, 2004 3:52 am (#2087 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ok, I think it's time you guys(H/Hr and R/Hr) reach some agreement between yourself.
Firstly, does everyone agree that Ron may just have a teenage crush on Hermione?
Secondly, what's the betting that it wouldn't go away? JKR has already told us that Ginny who had a crush on Harry "gave up on him" (atleast for now). Couldn't it happen to R/Hr?
Thirdly, JKR knows that that many young children are going to be reading these books, so, IMHO, she is giving them some idea of what could happen in life. (Break in friendships; Being booed off the field, being hated by everyone, etc.) Now, consider this, if R/Hr and H/G 'ships do turn out to be true, then wouldn't that be falling in love with your "first crushes"? How many kids are going to be forunate (or unfortunate) to have that happen to them? Now, if there is a H/Hr 'ship, wouldn't that be the Hero falling for his "Platonic" Best friend? That does seem good in Hollywood movies but definately not in Children's books. (Please don't tell me HP books have a universal appeal to people of all ages; because I believe that it is still very much a children's book.)
Also, I agree with anyone who feels both, H/Hr and R/Hr would wreck the Trio. If no-one thinks so, then I agree with myself.
Well... Howzzat?
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 23, 2004 4:10 am (#2088 of 2916)
Good points Tornedo. I think you have to allude to the place you come from as well as culture. In some places, it's common for folks to marry early so people do end up marrying right out of highschool or college.
What we do know is that James went after Lily and finally got her to go out with him in their last year and end up getting married soon after. We also know that Arthur and Molly were also school sweethearts and they probably married soon after too. Add to that, Hermione wouldn't have been Ron's first crush (Fleur maybe) and Ginny obviously wouldn't be Harry's first. And Harry would obviously not be Ginny's first boyfriend. But even so, it's not unlikely that you end up marrying your first boyfriend/girlfriend. It does happen. I would venture to say that characters that are with with each other romantically by the the end of Book 7 will be expected to get married in the near future. By the end of Book 7, our characters would have developed such a strong bond and understanding with each other, it's hard to see things change.
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Hermy-own - Aug 23, 2004 4:36 am (#2089 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Following quotes by Tornedo:
"Firstly, does everyone agree that Ron may just have a teenage crush on Hermione?"
Yes, agreed. Whether it develops into something deeper, we'll have to wait and see.
"Secondly, what's the betting that it wouldn't go away?"
Once again, I agree. We may well find the crush fizzles out in HBP, just as Ginny's feelings for Harry appeared to fade after CoS.
"wouldn't that be the Hero falling for his "Platonic" Best friend?"
It certainly would. So would Harry falling for Luna, Ginny or Luna; he has platonic relationships with all of them. The key part with Hermioine (IMHO) is the "best friend" bit.
IMO, Harry suspects that Ron likes Hermione. So even if H develops a crush on Hermione, he would not consider a 'ship as it may harm his friendship with Ron. Obviously, this would not be a problem if Ron's feelings for Hr were to diminish. However, I doubt that Harry/Hermione will ever see each other in a romantic light. Of course, that just my opinion; I could be wrong.
As for Ron/Hermione:
I doubt their 'ship (if it happens) would hurt the trio to the same extent. Harry has developed his friendships with Neville and Ginny and at the end of OotP we see how comfortable he is talking to Luna. JKR has said there will be some romance for him in HBP, so at least there should be someone to keep him company.
I am not predicting R/Hr because it is less likely to wreck the trio than a H/Hr 'ship but because there have been plenty of suggestions in the books that the two like each other.
EDIT:
You make good points Tornedo.
I'd like to add that although HP was intended for children (and JKR has admitted this was her main aim), the book appears to be appealing to people of all ages. There are several themes/notions within the HP story which may not be obvious to a young child but may be better appreciated by an adult or teenager. I know several adults who love HP just as much as the next child does. Indeed, there are many on this forum!
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Time Traveler - Aug 23, 2004 7:02 am (#2090 of 2916)
I really want to shut my mouth up, but... I know this would cause many guy's contradiction and throwing stones to me, but... Just my little idea.
Firstly, does everyone agree that Ron may just have a teenage crush on Hermione?
Secondly, what's the betting that it wouldn't go away?
I agree with anyone who feels both, H/Hr and R/Hr would wreck the Trio
Firstly, I agreed before, but now.. I'm not so sure. To me, the only evidence of Ron's crush on Hermione is his expression of unease at Vk/Hr relationship. However, I also saw him express unease at Ginny's ships with any boys but Harry.. So, now I'm not sure that that is an inevitable evidence of Ron's 100% sexual crush on Hr. Just, I personally can't remember any specific sign of his crush other than this case.
Secondly, (I said my thoughts about these questions before) as you see, I suspect that Ron's crush may not exist or be as strong as we(?) think.. So, I think it's absolutely possible.
About the third question, I have no idea of what JKR would think. She just can do anything in her book and everything can happen in our world. So I think she will write what she wants to write and what she thinks is interesting unless that is too disgusting or too suggestive. (Well, I think her books have already a little more dreadful scenes than usual children books, though.)
Lastly, sorry, but I don't think any relationship among Trio should destroy their whole relation. Of course, I also think it's pretty possible, but I just think that there can be solutions to it.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 23, 2004 7:34 am (#2091 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I don't feel that Ron is crushing on Hermione; I think it's something else. It's not the same sort of 'blush every time they're near, stick your elbow in the butter dish because they looked at you, stutter out every word you say' hormonal sort of thing. It's something that grew slowly, when no-one was looking, out of a very deep friendship. So no, I don't think it's a "teenage crush" and that is will just "go away".
As for how many people get married just out of high school, I guess that depends on where you're from. It's rather common where I'm from and has been for generations. My parents married just out of high school, so did many couples I can think of. One of my brothers got married early in college (just a few years out of high school). His friends did likewise. I think of a half-dozen teachers off the top of my head that I had in high school who married their high school sweethearts. It's not that uncommon a thing. Admittedly, it still might be a small percentage of people, but not an unheard of number.....
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Crookshanks - Aug 23, 2004 8:24 am (#2092 of 2916)
Edited by Aug 23, 2004 8:28 am
Some interesting points in place,there but my money's with Tornedo on either ship wrecking the trio.
There's this small clarification I wanted to make about the Rita Skeeter interview Hermione arranged for Harry.IMHO,Hermione fixed 12 noon deliberately. When the trio went to meet Sirius in GoF during one of their Hogsmeade weekends, they got back safe by around 1530 hrs. Harry tells Hermione that he might have to spend the entire day with Cho,so she could have fixed the meeting up at 1430 hrs instead, if she didn't want Harry's date to go bizarre. We know that Hermione's very good at judging people. She knew how hopeless Harry is with girls. Yet she doesn't tell him the motive behind fixing up their meeting. If only she had,Harry would have told Cho "Look,I've gotta meet Hermione at 3BS at 12 noon.I've got to tell the world the truth about Voldemort. Why don't you join me there ? You'll have all your questions about Cedric answered". But Hermione left Harry with no clue about the reason of their meeting.She just says "It's really important". And Harry was left with no choice but to say "Look,I've gotta meet Hermione at 12 noon at 3 BS.You can accompany me if you wish."
Now,people out there would say - "Well,she didn't want Harry to have a 'troubled' date". The revelation to Harry that he could speak out the truth to the world that afternoon would have made Harry lighter. She needn't have mentioned that Rita was the reporter.Harry wouldn't care. He would look forward to unburdening himself & that would have brightened his spirits all the more.
About the animagus theory,well.Not very far-fetched. I think Harry would live thru the entire experience even with Rita "pressing for every little detail".And how do we know that Hermione wasn't quite sentimental in having a "cascaded" Valentine date with Harry ? We know that Rita & Luna left after the interview.This means,Hermione had Harry for herself for 2.5 hours,say at least 1 hour (assuming the interview lasted an hour & that they could get back by 1530 hrs). All the time Harry & Hermione spent long hours unto themselves,is just shielded from the reader, be it the long hour they spend with the Time-Turner in PoA or this one or the walks around the lake in GoF.
Some of you say,Hermione didn't want Cho to replace her as Harry's best friend & that she wouldn't probably mind Ginny & also add on that she is a little over-possessive about Harry.To me,it sounds like a paradox.
We see a marked transition in her reaction towards the H/C 'ship as OotP progresses. First,outside the Herbology class or wherever when Cho meets Harry and starts this argument with Ron about some quidditch team,Hermione spiritedly shouts at Ron for being very naive.Then,as the DA & stuff progresses,she turns brisk & businesslike with the topic,something she never is with Harry.She's either nagging or very loving (as a friend) towards him. And then Ron becomes the scapegoat for her frustrations.And then Harry's date bombs & she is "bright" & not feeling as sad as she outwardly appears.
She then also writes her letter to Krum in their presence.She already knows Ron's jealous of this.May be her intention was to make Harry jealous of that.
After the duel at DoM,Harry is back at DD's office & amongst his heated conversations with DD,he still sees sense in Hermione asking him to practise Occlumency.Ron's existence takes a backseat.
Harry makes up more easily with Hermione than Ron and infact there's been no fight as long a breach between Harry & Hermione as there was between him & Ron in GoF,not even the Firebolt issue.
IMO,have the 2nd task of the Triwizard again and this time the thing Harry's gonna miss most is probably Hermione.
Lastly,there was this great ruckus about Hermione not being the heroine of the series.Has anyone noticed that the word "Hermione" 'kangaroos' the word "Heroine" ? And that the word "Harry" sounds not too far from the word "Hero" ? (Nothing to do with the 'ships, but then an avid observation)
Arguments "invited".
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 9:58 am (#2093 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Sorry guys, I said I was going to post my (long winded) reply to some of the discussions last week... but I got distracted with work! Firstly… Marcus.. loved the fan fic and I can actually see that type of scenario playing out in HBP... still not a H/P shipper... but you never know
Looney Luna :’Harry needs a girl so he can cut loose and have some fun’.
The One : ‘But he also needs a girl that understands what he is going through, and who is willing do support him’
Hmmm, sounds to me like you have both just described little Ms Weasley
Sarah, I agree in that Rons feelings for Hermione are just that little bit more than a teenage crush... but I don't think even he is aware of that! Nice to see you back by the way!
So here is my essay from last week…. It's quite long (I got a bit Hermione on it ) So feel free to skip past it. It's probably full of points made before... but it's mostly points that have been bursting to get out of my head. I’m actually quite nervous about posting as it’s probably a load of tripe… but where better to share my mad ravings than with my forum buddies
As I said before, feel free to skip, disagree or rip apart... just no name calling or flame throwing please Remember it's just my observations and thoughts... it's more than likely a load of waffle.... but without further ado, here it is anyways....
Hormones and Hexes - Deciphering the Hermione Enigma (And some thoughts on Ron )
Just what is going on in Hermiones Head ? It’s the age old question in regards to most ‘shipping debates. Who does she like? Will HBP hold any surprises… will she date Ron or does she prefer Harry? Indeed will she show an interest or date anyone in HBP?
Hermione likes to be perceived as being quite mature and together, and it is this tendency of being able to control her emotional outbursts (more so than the others) that makes for a good literary device. She’s slightly guarded about her feelings… so we the reader are never quite sure of where her preferences lie. As we know JK loves to play this up to the maximum.
It has been previously discussed and never really disputed on this thread (and indeed this forum), that both Harry and Ron are light years behind poor old Hermione in the maturity stakes. So then is it any wonder that she appears to get increasingly annoyed with the boys as the story progresses. However, I will add at this point that the revelation that is the prophecy will do a great deal in sobering up Harry to the adult world, an innocence lost to a extent!
Hermione’s expression of her frustration at their immaturity is usually where we begin to see her letting down her guard and displaying some of her more emotional responses. It is here that we begin to see that even though she is more mature than the boys (not hard, one may argue), Hermione herself has also a bit of growing up to do!
This annoyance is especially pronouced when the trio are discussing boy/girl issues. If we take for example the conversation that takes place after Harry and Cho kiss. As the conversation progresses, Hermione gets increasingly frustrated with Rons behaviour, to the point that she makes a couple of nasty remarks at his expense. When Ron makes his comment about "a bit of kissing should cheer her [Cho] up", Hermione lashes back at him saying that he is "the most insensitive wart she has ever met".
Wow, hold up a bit there Hermione, that’s a bit harsh don’t you think! To me this is a little out of character for Hermione, after all she's not generally the most vindictive person... unless she’s not fully in control of her emotions. Hmm, take for example when she gets frustrated with Malfoy, Rita et al.
Further into their discussion, even after she attempts to explain what (she thinks) Cho is feeling and Ron still doesn’t seem to understand (neither does Harry for that matter), she gets even more frustrated with Ron and tells him he has the "emotional range of a teaspoon". Ouch, now that’s got to hurt!
To me, this is partly her being annoyed at Ron’s childish behaviour in regards to girls and kissing, and is therefore lashing out at him with these snide comments. This shows us that Hermione is not as mature as she would like to think she is. That she herself isn’t above a bit of name calling and it also shows that she isn’t immune to feeling a bit of jealously. Yes I did say jealousy as I also think there is a hint of jealousy from Hermione here.
Now before you get all excited, I’m not saying that she wants to swap places with Cho, but it is possible that she is jealous of the fact that Harry is the first of the trio that has got down to a bit of a snogging (as so to speak, kisses on cheeks wouldn’t be classed as snogs). After all, she feels she is the most mature of the bunch, so why did Harry get this honour? Maturity is the stake that she has on the trio... something she is very proud of.. but the fact that Harry has kissed someone, before she has... (maybe she did kiss Viktor, we don’t actually know, I’m guessing here, but something tells me that she didn’t), does that mean that Harry is suddenly more mature than her?
Perhaps this is what has got to her more. Add that to the fact that Ron seems to find the whole thing hilarious, like the concept of kissing someone is a huge joke, makes for one peeved Hermione. Harry seems to have found someone who is willing to be mature about the whole 'kissing' thing, and herself... well... the guy she seems to have some 'chemistry' with, is the hyena lying on the floor... raucously laughing over the fact that Harry has kissed a girl!
I also add at this point, that to me, the 'brisk... business like manner' in which she discusses Harry and Cho’s kiss... is Hermione trying to show the lads that she is more mature than them... that she can discuss these matters in an adult like fashion, and not get all giggly or childish unlike Ron!
However, I think as their fifth year progresses, we do start to see some subtle changes in Ron’s behaviour. If you look at their [Ron and Hermione’s] interactions in OotP, the arguments start off as the two sniping away at one another... but the dynamic changes somewhat through the book. More often, it is Hermione that picks the fight. Ron will say some comment off the cuff (maybe he's looking for a reaction who knows), but increasingly she just seems to pick on whatever he is saying and makes an argument with it.
There are a few examples in OotP where we see Hermione picking or attempting to pick a fight with Ron. One I can recall, is where Ron mentions that Umbridge is trying to get the students to act as spies, Hermione immediately snaps back at him unprovoked, however (as usual) Harry steps in to diffuse the situation.
Ron even starts to keep his opinions of Viktor to himself (and Harry), as he begins to refrain from commenting in front of Hermione. By not picking a fight... are we seeing some sort of maturity in Ron? He even takes the stance in arguments of not directly contradicting Hermione, or by getting his point across by not resorting to sniping. In regards to the Krum issue, indeed it seems he is almost resigned the to the fact that Hermione likes Krum.
That leads me unto the next thought floating around in my head.... What about Krum? Just what is going on with him and Hermione? How does she feel about him.... why is she still writing to him... and why does she make sure Ron knows that she is still writing to him?
NOTE : To be continued in the next post... sorry!
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 9:59 am (#2094 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hormones & Hexes Continued (sorry it's so long)
I reread GoF a few weeks back and I noticed that just after the spectacular climax of the Quidditch World cup... Hermione leans on edge of the balcony of the top box and watches him [Krum] land on the pitch below (refusing attention from the Mediwizards). She then makes a comment... "He was very brave, wasn't he". (chpt 8 GoF). I never even noticed that part before... but it seems that Hermione was at least a little taken by Krum's Quidditch heroics. I'm not saying that she fancies/fancied him... but just thought it was an interesting little observation from Miss Granger.
Ok, so nothing seems to have happened between them in GoF, apart from attending the ball together. After the second task, Hermione is more interested in Harry and Rons well being, so much so, that she almost dismisses Krums attention completely. All the more poignant when we find out later that he was in the middle of telling her that he's "Never felt this way about another girl".
You could argue that she isn't interested in Krum, and that she might even have been a bit scared off by this declaration, however you could also argue that she's still that little bit flattered... dare I say curious. After all, Krum is a world famous quidditch player and even if she denies it ‘til she’s blue in the face, Hermione can still have her head turned by a famous face. As Ron so 'subtly' pointed out in GoF, "*cough*Lockhart*cough*". But if she isn't that little bit interested, why then does she continue her correspondence with Krum?
To add to this little mystery, we never actually find out if she did visit Krum in Bulgaria. (Harry (or Ron for that matter), why didn't you ever ask? ) I do doubt that she would have had time to go to Bulgaria, seeing as she appeared to be with the Weasleys for most of the summer after fourth year, (according to Harrys point of view), but you never know! It is interesting to note that when JK was asked this question in the World Book Day Web Chat, she avoided giving a direct answer.
renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too.
So how does Hermione feel about Krum? To be honest, we don't actually know. We can guess and guess... but we still don't have any solid proof. If anything I'd say she’s confused. Here we have a perfectly nice bloke, who is head over heels for her, but she doesn't seem not too sure of him. For a start he might be a little bit too mature for her (how’s that for irony), however, it could be very easy to get caught up in the romance of it all.
She's flattered, he's famous, he likes her, he chose her as his date out of all the girls in the school, he actively pursued her by going to the library so often, he was jealous of her friendship with Harry, he wants her to visit him in Bulgaria, and he doesn't appear to find the thought of kissing a girl to be hilarious! What girl wouldn't be flattered by (some of) this. It would be very easy for her to mistake the feeling of flattery for something more. I mean she does seem to actually like the guy, and his company, why else would she choose to write to him, we just don't know if she feels anything more.
However, if we look at things in OotP, from Rons perspective, even he thinks that Hermione is still with Krum, or at least she still has romantic notions of Krum. e.g. the "What does she see in him" quote he says to Harry. Hermione has stated that he’s just a penpal of sorts... but Ron doesn't really appear to accept this explanation, "'He didn't only want to be your pen pal,' said Ron accusingly". (OotP Chpt 16)
We also have heard from JK (WBD Web Chat), that Krum will reappear in the series... just not in the immediate future. So what does all this mean... will Hermione end up running into the Bulgarian sunset leaving 'ickle Ronniekins broken hearted?
I must admit, this has crossed my mind. As I said before, JK has kept Hermione's feelings pretty guarded, as opposed to Rons. After GoF, to be honest, I did expect something significant to happen between Ron and Hermione... perhaps a date, at least more awkward and embarrassing moments, or even another spectacular argument... but we didn't really see anything like this, (a few awkward moments aside). In fact, if anything, things seemed to have slowed down between the two, perhaps JK is trying to last the storyline out until the last book, (so says my little suspicious mind), or perhaps it's all part of the intricate plot. So then, did the good ship R/Hr sink in OotP?
Personally I don't think so, it may have taken on a bit of water in the choppy seas of OotP, but I think that it's still afloat.... just!
If we look at the time period from June of their 4th year to June of their 5th year, Ron and Hermione haven't exactly had a smooth year. What with 'ol Voldy coming back from the near dead and Harry barely escaping with his life. Add to the mix, getting caught up in the delicate politics of the Wizarding World.... helping out with a secret society, worrying about Harry, being careful about what you say when talking to strangers, trying to figure out friend from foe, worrying about Harry, Umbridge, the mini political arena in Hogwarts, worrying about Harry, the attack on Arthur (especially so for Ron), Percys behaviour (again more so for Ron), worrying about Harry, the added pressure of being a prefect, and of course it being OWL year, to name but a few, and oh yes, worrying about Harry!
It has hardly been a regular year for normal wizarding teens, or a healthy environment for the two to develop their friendship into anything more, if they so wished. Add to that, Ron thinking that Hermione is still with 'that Krum bloke'... he probably feels he doesn't have a chance .... again with the 'ol lack of self confidence thing. Perhaps he feels its not his place to put any moves on her... not if she's with someone else. I also think he's not mature enough yet to admit exactly what he's feeling... but even if he did, he’s probably too scared to act upon it and perhaps is using the 'shes with Krum excuse' as a way of justifying this to himself.
Is it any wonder Hermione is so frustrated with him... after all Ron made it very obvious in GoF that he fancied her... but he still hasn't acted on it! She even makes a point of writing her letters to Viktor in Ron's presence, when Ron queries who the 'essay' is for and she replies Krum, Ron pretty much shuts up and leaves it at that. I wonder if that is the reaction she was looking for
So if at this point Hermione starts to lighten and stop taking herself so seriously, and Ron begins to grow up just that little bit, what next for the two? As I view it, if this was a game of chess, its pretty much stalemate. Neither is willing to make a move, so is often the case between friends who find themselves in this situation.
Its hard for them to admit what they are feeling and indeed, weighing it up to see if it’s worth the risk. What with everything that is going on in the Wizarding World during and most likely after their 5th year. They also try to be considerate of Harry’s feelings, they felt bad that he was left out when they became prefects & then with his potential to explode over certain situations. When they get to hear the contents of the prophecy, they will worry about him even more.
They have had and will probably continue to have a lot on their plates, so much so, that they barely make time for themselves.... ah but as JK said herself... "what's life without a little romance?" (WBD webchat). So will Ron and Hermione continue to dance around one another and avoid the issue of their feelings for one another for another book? Yes ... I think they will.
NB: If you've made it this far, thanks for reading, if you skipped thats ok too :g
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Eponine - Aug 23, 2004 10:16 am (#2095 of 2916)
Nicely done, Fawkes Forever.
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am (#2096 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Eponine ... was a bit nervous about posting...
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Kasse - Aug 23, 2004 10:52 am (#2097 of 2916)
No need to be nervous Fawks, I for one loved it, very well done It got me thinking, I am even going to email it to a friend of mine who is not a forum member.......
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S.E. Jones - Aug 23, 2004 11:01 am (#2098 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Fawkes Forever: Sarah, I agree in that Rons feelings for Hermione are just that little bit more than a teenage crush... but I don't think even he is aware of that! Nice to see you back by the way!
Thanks. It's nice to know I was even missed!
And I loved the essay. You should try sending Steve an email with a link to those posts (don't send the actual essay unless he emails you back about it) and a line or two describing what it's about. Maybe you can get it on the Lexicon....
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Star Crossed - Aug 23, 2004 11:50 am (#2099 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Wonderful job, FF. The essay was brilliant and explained a lot. Take ten points.
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 11:56 am (#2100 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Guys, I don't think it's worthy of a place on the lex... but just a 'few' thoughts that I had to get 'on paper'. Thanks again
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Open minded sceptic
Harry lets things happen for the most part (passive).
That is very true. And this may not even change as he gets older, as so many things happens to Harry all the time that it would overwhelm anyone.
Harry needs Hermione, he needs her badly, as a partner in his struggle. Any development in the story that isolates Harry from Hermione will make the story very dark indeed. So far this has not happened, because not only is Hermione the most important person in Harry's life, Hermione has also chosen to let Harry be the most important person in her life. The question is: will it remain so? I think it will, but JKR decides.
This is the reason that I do not believe there is room in the story for any boy friend other than Harry for Hermione. She will fall for him or stay single until the struggle is over.
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Chris. - Aug 20, 2004 11:10 am (#2052 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
So far this has not happened, because not only is Hermione the most important person in Harry's life, Hermione has also chosen to let Harry be the most important person in her life.- The One
Hermione is not the most important person in Harry's life. She and Ron are of equal footing, both are dear to Harry. I agree that Hermione has put Harry first but Harry has different people of importance in his life, Hermione, IMO, not being at the top.
--And if you don't mind me asking, what is your avatar, The One? I say something related to the Matrix, my brother says it isn't.
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 11:22 am (#2053 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
You are right. It is from the second Matrix film.
It shows Trinity (the heroine) entering the Matrix despite that she was supposed not to, in order to save Neo (the hero) and the rest when their mission goes wrong. Her action does save the mission, but gets Trinity in big trouble, and in his turn Neo pulls a tremendous stunt to save her.
As you might guess, my name and my avatar indicates that I see Harry/Hermione in a sort of Neo/Trinity like partnership in the later books.
But I guess many disagree with me on that one.
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Crisz - Aug 20, 2004 11:29 am (#2054 of 2916)
Hmm, well now I don't know...S.E. Jones - you made some really good points. However, there's also that argument where Ron leaves the picture and Hermione and Harry are together (they go fighting together in OotP in the Department of Mysteries, into the woods in OotP with Umbridge, go back in time in PoA).
I think Harry has too much on his plate with Voldemort to get involved with love.
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Chris. - Aug 20, 2004 11:29 am (#2055 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hmm... I suppose I can see an analogy there. But remember; Neo had to depend on Morpheus as well as Trinity. And then Neo had to go it alone at the end, while the others fought.
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Padfoot - Aug 20, 2004 12:07 pm (#2056 of 2916)
Ok, so much for me seeing Matrix three. LOL.
I like the point brought up that R/H pair up to allow Harry to further separate himself and prepare to defeat Voldemort. I definitely think they will help him, but he will stand alone. Of course it would be nice if R/H begin their romantic relationship soon and not wait until the end of book 7, as that will not help Harry any.
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 12:10 pm (#2057 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Ok, so much for me seeing Matrix three.
Ooops. Sorry.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 20, 2004 12:36 pm (#2058 of 2916)
I think Hermione is the sister that Harry never had (as Ron is a brother to Harry). She pushes him, wants him to do well and is bossy, motherly even. He tolerates it and shuts her out when he gets tired of her nagging. I apologize, I do think Hermione is a nag and a goody-two shoes which makes her not right for Harry.
Harry needs a bad girl. I'm thinking Pansy.
As for the final showdown, Harry will not be standing with Hermione or Ron - they either can't go or will be taken out. I think it will be Neville. SURPRISE!
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The One - Aug 20, 2004 2:50 pm (#2059 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But remember; Neo had to depend on Morpheus as well as Trinity.
Yes, but Ron is no Morpheus, that is more Dumbledores's role.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 20, 2004 4:23 pm (#2060 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Prongs: Hermione is not the most important person in Harry's life. She and Ron are of equal footing, both are dear to Harry.
I never said that Harry would have to depend on loving himself to defeat Voldemort, just that he would have to face Voldemort alone. I think we will see Harry pull up a self-less love, yes, but a familial or fraternal love. Ron and Hermione are both dear to Harry, as Prongs pointed out, and I think that is important. I think what will save the wizarding world will be Harry's wish to save those he loves; not any one person, but all of them. He will want to protect his friends (Neville, Luna, etc.) and the friends he views as family (Ron, Hermione, Ginny, the other Weasleys, Hagrid, Lupin, etc.) from Voldemort and realize he is the last line of defence and will thus be able to defeat the enemy.
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Time Traveler - Aug 20, 2004 6:26 pm (#2061 of 2916)
Oh, oh, oh, I don't think Harry needs a bad girl.T_T I absolutely believe he needs a bright comfortable helpful understanding girl. Please don't make his life harder by adding another burden on his shoulder.. His heart has been broken enough...!!
Ah, how's my portrait? I'm still a H/Hr shipper strongly.:-) Aren't they so well-matched? (giggle)
I think Harry may face Voldemort at the end of 6th and 7th, but before the ending scenes, he's getting to get more and more friends and supporters on his side. In the last chapter of OoP, he had thought he now was alone and apart from others because he was a 'marked' man. However, at the last last scene, what happend? Just everybody, well, not everybody but many friends of his just came to welcome him back and warn/threaten the Dursleys. (Oh, I love Moody!)
And at the fight in MoM, he didn't fight with Voldemort alone. He had been alone, but soon Dumbledore had come and fought.,
Let's see The Lord of the Rings. Frodo is fated to play the most important roll, however actually he didn't do many things. Other guys had battle and Sam, oh really Sam fought for him almost all the time! Without Sam, he couldn't even get to at the mountain.
Why not will something similar happen to Harry? Without friends and people who love Harry and Hary loves, he could not go forward even one step IMO. I just don't want to see that he retreat into himself and pushed to face Voldemort unwillingly. I think he has to go confront Voldemort for his people at his own will.
He really needs being with people not separated from them all along.
Just my thought.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 20, 2004 8:35 pm (#2062 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Tornedo!? Speechless here. Not a H/HR 'shipper anymore?! HEALER SPROUT!! HEALER SPROUT!! *carted off to St Mungos* What 'ship for Harry do you prefer now? -- Prongs
At this moment, I'm leaning towards Harry having saperate flings with Susan Bones and Parvati Patil in the next books.
Here I have a question.. Did you all read the books in English?
I'm not a native English-speaker, as you guess from what I've written so far, but I've read all HP books in English, US addition, for some reasons. And I'm a POSITIVE H/Hr shipper. On the contrary, when my best friend and other people who I know have read the books in our language talks about the romantic ship, it seems to me that they simply believe R/Hr ship is conclusive. -- Time Traveller
In which language have your friends read the books? I've read the books in a second language too; but there's no fun in it really, JKR's magic doesn't seem to be so strong when read in an alternate language. I only read 'till the Christmas in PS before giving up. The only thing that I really found funny was the names those translators had given to various magical objects... Nothing on 'shipping though, there isn't in PS is there?
Could have sworn you said you were R/Hr Pre-OP -- Star Crossed
I said I was a bit undecided before OotP; NOT a R/Hr supporter. I have been a H/Hr supporter since PS (They look cute together don't they?) And after PoA movie I am absolutely sure there won't be a R/Hr 'ship.
Now; I don't know the exact sentences, but in one of the interviews, some one asked JKR if there was any romance for Harry, and JKR said that "Harry would be too busy for romance" However, she did add that Harry would have a "couple of dates" and in the end said "What's life without a bit of romance?". I'm sure this interview has been mentioned before on this thread. (Can't find it using search) I think it's somewhere during July 2 or 3.
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The One - Aug 21, 2004 2:54 am (#2063 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I never said that Harry would have to depend on loving himself to defeat Voldemort, just that he would have to face Voldemort alone.
I know. My formulations are sometimes not to subtle, no offense meant.
As I see it, Harry survived the first attack by LV and his encounter with Quirrel in PS because he was loved. He survived the dementor attack in OotP because of his love for Ron and Hermione, he survived LV possession because of his love for Sirius.
I think we will see Harry pull up a self-less love, yes, but a familial or fraternal love.
I think that even if Harry and Hermione do become a couple, Harry saving the world as a side effect of wanting to save his girl friend does not quite cut it. His love for his woman, if any, his friends and for "the good" in general, will all be important. But I do not see Harry as the loner hero. His connections to other people are a very important part of what makes him strong, in addition to his courage and his abilities. He has some "loner hero" traits now, and these need to be tuned down, not tuned up.
Therefore, his developing friendships with Neville, Luna and Ginny, are important. And therefore is what I see as developments in his relationship with Hermione very important, whether that develops into a romantic relationship or not. (But getting a serious girlfriend will add new aspects to Harry’s love.) And therfore his close friendship with Ron is important.
But I see some problems in the Ron/Harry friendship during OotP, Ron is a little more distant now than he used to be, and that is a bad thing. I also see a few loose ends regarding Ron's insecurities and apparent growth in OotP, that may increase those problems. Nevertheless I also believe that those problems will be resolved before the final showdown. (If Ron survive book 6)
But just for the record: I find your version of the storyline quite plausible. If JKR for any reason wants to somewhat isolating Harry from the trio, a Ron/Hermione relationship may be a way to achieve that. Depending of what effect the said isolation is supposed to have; the result may be anything from a subtle shift in trio dynamics to a major rift.
The purpose of this may be to develop Harry as a “loner Hero”, force Harry to expand his circle of close friends, create the setting for a romantic relationship with a girl other than Hermione, or any combination off these.
Your posts are very plausible and make perfectly sense to me, it is just that as I read the story, other storylines seems more probable.
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Time Traveler - Aug 21, 2004 5:12 am (#2064 of 2916)
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I think that even if Harry and Hermione do become a couple, Harry saving the world as a side effect of wanting to save his girl friend does not quite cut it. His love for his woman, if any, his friends and for "the good" in general, will all be important. But I do not see Harry as the loner hero. His connections to other people are a very important part of what makes him strong, in addition to his courage and his abilities. He has some "loner hero" traits now, and these need to be tuned down, not tuned up.
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Oh, I can't agree with you more, The One, unless I misunderstood your post completely.:-) However, it seems very unmistakable. :-)
And if any of my posts seemd offensive to other shippers, sorry about that. I've never meant that.>_<
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Hermy-own - Aug 21, 2004 7:17 am (#2065 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Oh, oh, oh, I don't think Harry needs a bad girl... Please don't make his life harder by adding another burden on his shoulder" - Time Traveller in response to the following comment by LooneyLuna:
"Harry needs a bad girl. I'm thinking Pansy.
" Time Traveller, Luna describes Hermione as a "goody-two-shoes" in the same post. I think her reference to "a bad girl" for Harry simply means someone who isn't a goody-two-shoes i.e. someone who wouldn't be bossy or nagging (I doubt Luna meant "bad girl" in the literal sense) One would excpect Pansy, Ginny or Luna to fit that particular requirement better than Hermione but thats another arguement altogether
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LooneyLuna - Aug 21, 2004 8:07 am (#2066 of 2916)
Thank you hermy-own! When I said "bad girl" I didn't mean a girl that is bad/mean to Harry! I meant one that is more relaxed, isn't totally opposed to rule-breaking and that doesn't nag him half to death.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 22, 2004 4:15 am (#2067 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
When I said "bad girl" I didn't mean a girl that is bad/mean to Harry! I meant one that is more relaxed, isn't totally opposed to rule-breaking and that doesn't nag him half to death. -- LooneyLuna
Loony, Harry doesn't need any one at all. He has all the friends he'll need.
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Time Traveler - Aug 22, 2004 4:35 am (#2068 of 2916)
Well, I was half joking at that time, but sorry hermy-own and LooneyLuna, if it harmed your feeling. I also don't think LoonyLuna meant "a girl that is bad/mean to Harry" by that, but I still think "a girl that is bad/mean to anyone but Harry(especially without any reason)" is not very good for Harry.;-( Oh, I also know that's not what you meant, too.:-)
And about "totally opposed to rule-breaking and that doesn't nag him half to death", I don't think Hermione made Harry half to death. Ok, sometimes she made him very uncomfortable with what she said to him constantly, but I don't think it's completely her fault or mistake.
People say that a true friend is a friend who can point out his/her friend's fault instead of shutting one's eyes. Of course, they need some skills of pointing out not very offensively. I accept that Hermione needs some better skills of this, but IMO the biggest reason that her scolding made Harry uneasy was that she was saying exactly what his another part of mind was saying to him at the same time, not her scolding to Harry itself.
Moreover, I think almost all advices/nags of her turned out reasonable things. So, I believe Harry needs Hermione or her nags anyway.. Hermione seems to play a roll of kinda Superego/controller on Harry, because his own one seems to lose some power now, in my view.
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Star Crossed - Aug 22, 2004 5:33 am (#2069 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think Ron needs the nagging more than Harry does. Indeed, he hates it. Can anyone think of a time Harry responded to Hermione's nagging positively? There was the time in their third year with the Firebolt. Wait...no...he got mad at her then for letting such a horrible act happen (I did, too, actually...Anyone else?). In OP, he got so frusterated with her telling him to check if Sirius was at his house, he did, just so she would shut up. Did it help? No. Did it make him even more determined to save Sirius? Yes. Perhaps Hermione's nagging could help Harry if she worded herself differently. Harry needs to be manipulated to believe he was the one who came up with the idea, and he needs to believe it was a good idea. Hermione doesn't do this. The way she nags is the way that Ron wants to be told what to do.
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 5:57 am (#2070 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
In OP, he got so frusterated with her telling him to check if Sirius was at his house, he did, just so she would shut up. Did it help? No. Did it make him even more determined to save Sirius? Yes.
Actually, checking whether Sirius was at home or not is a sensible move, so sensible that the enemy had anticipated it. That was the reason it did not work It means that not only Harry, but also Hermione was outwitted by LV.
Can anyone think of a time Harry responded to Hermione's nagging positively?
Yes:
For a moment Harry was tempted to go with Dobby. He was halfway out of his seat, intending to hurry upstairs for his Invisibility Cloak when, not for the first time, a voice very much like Hermione's whispered in his ear: reckless. It was, after all, very late, he was exhausted, and had Snape's essay to finish.
'Not tonight, Dobby', said Harry reluctantly, sinking back into his chair. 'This is really important... I don't want to blow it, it'll need proper planning. Listen, can you just tell me exactly where this Room of Requirement is, and how to get in there?'
I know that the "Good Ship" crew are sick of this, but this example show that despite Harry often getting angry with Hermione when he get advise he does not like, he does value her opinions and judgement If he resented her as much as you think, why is "What would Hermione think?" a question that hits him at once when he must make a decision without her?
And of course:
'OK', said Hermione. 'Well then, Harry, you and I will be under the Invisibility Cloak and we'll sneak into the office and you can talk to Sirius-'
'He's not there, Hermione!'
'I mean, you can - can check whether Sirius is at home or not while I keep watch, I don't think you should be in there alone, Lee's already proved the windows a weak spot, sending those Nifflers through it.'
Even through his anger and impatience, Harry recognised Hermiones offer to accompany him into Umbridge's office as a sign of solidarity and loyalty.
'I... OK, thanks', he muttered.
He is angry, impatient, scared for what is happening to Sirius, Hermione is opposing him, and still he thanks her! It cannot really be that bad, can it?
The way she nags is the way that Ron wants to be told what to do.
Oh really? How do you know this? Ron resents Hermione nagging Harry, why do you expect him to react good to being nagged himself?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 22, 2004 6:50 am (#2071 of 2916)
I don't think that anyone disputes that Harry values Hermione as a friend. She does act as his conscience. But she does go overboard and won't let an issue drop. Think about the first time Harry was going to talk to Sirius from Umbridge's office in OotP. She nagged him to death all day long about it. He stopped talking to her. Regardless of whether she was right, she chose not to support Harry in this endeavor. Or, was she jealous that she wasn't consulted while compiling the plan with his other friends?
Harry needs a girl so he can cut loose and have some fun. Hermione is not that girl. Now, that doesn't mean that Harry can't marry Hermione later. Save Hermione for the serious ship and let Harry have some fun in school. That's what I say.
Although, I really don't think that H/H belong together. - - - - - - - - - -
True Love - Aug 22, 2004 6:59 am (#2072 of 2916)
I agree that Harry's friendship with Hermione will stay as a friendship. Falling in love with her will only complicate their relationship rather than strengthen it, even when they are older. He needs someone to have fun with, distract him from the trials of school and Voldie.
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 7:17 am (#2073 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Think about the first time Harry was going to talk to Sirius from Umbridge's office in OotP. She nagged him to death all day long about it. He stopped talking to her.
That is right. And Hermione's person-handling skills need to develop. But as you will have noted, arguing to the point where you do not speak for a short period seems to be the norm for some youngsters in the HP-universe, a single incident including Harry does not seem to be that important. My only point is that Harry seems to have much less problems with the nagging than you have.
Harry needs a girl so he can cut loose and have some fun.
But he also needs a girl that understands what he is going through, and who is willing do support him even if being Harry's girl friend will for much of the time be no fun at all. Whoever is Harry's girl friend is in for a rough time, not because Harry is a bad boy, but because Harry is in for a very rough time himself.
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Time Traveler - Aug 22, 2004 8:40 am (#2074 of 2916)
======== He needs someone to have fun with, distract him from the trials of school and Voldie. =========
Well, I'm not sure that Harry can really enjoy such a ship while going into a harder and harder time.. Cho distracted him from the trials of school and LV, but in the end it wasn't a very good ending, was it? And I think he can have fun with Ron, Hermione, and other comparably new friends still.
========== Whoever is Harry's girl friend is in for a rough time, not because Harry is a bad boy, but because Harry is in for a very rough time himself. ===========
This is why I think Cho/Harry relationship would and should not continue further.. Cho was definitely out of the way he usually struggled on. I don't think it's very plausible Harry will have a couple of relationships like this more. PERSONALLY, I don't want to see lots of Ordinary (short-lasting) boy-meets-girl stories handling importantly in HP books.
Lastly, this recent discussing about Hermione's nagging just reminded me of James/Lily relationship. Lily was not that approving to James at least in their 5th year.:-) Oh, I know that her disapproval is different from Hermione's. Just wanted to mention about J/L.
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Hermy-own - Aug 22, 2004 9:23 am (#2075 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"sorry hermy-own and LooneyLuna, if it harmed your feeling"
Time Traveller
Awww Time Traveller! hehe. Don't worry one bit; you didn't say anything the slightest bit offensive.
Hermione has been very helpful to Harry and should continue to be throughout the series. I'm not saying she would not be helpful if they were to 'ship, but things would certainly be more complicated between the two (you're right True Love). The dynamics of the trio would also be affected.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 22, 2004 9:29 am (#2076 of 2916)
Let it snow!
hermy-own: Hermione has been very helpful to Harry and should continue to be throughout the series. I'm not saying she would not be helpful if they were to 'ship, but things would certainly be more complicated between the two (you're right True Love). The dynamics of the trio would also be affected.
Well, as even most H/Hr 'shippers will admit that Ron likes Hermione even if they disagree about where Hermione's feelings lie, I think we can all assume that Ron would be very hurt if Harry and Hermione got together. So, not only would Harry and Hermione's relationship be potentially strained/complicated, but Harry and Ron's would definately be (not to mention Ron and Hermione's). In my opinion, Harry needs both of his two best friends, on equal footing, near and dear to him, not estranged in any way.....
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Crisz - Aug 22, 2004 9:40 am (#2077 of 2916)
"In my opinion, Harry needs both of his two best friends, on equal footing, near and dear to him, not estranged in any way..... " S.E. Jones
I couldn't agree with you more.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 10:23 am (#2078 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
In my opinion, Harry needs both of his two best friends, on equal footing, near and dear to him, not estranged in any way.....-S.E. Jones.
Wonderfully said, Sarah. I totally agree with you. Harry doesn't want to lose any of his friends, that being my reason for a non-H/Hr 'ship. If Harry proceeded to continue a relationship (in a love way) with Hermione, he would lose Ron as a friend, because, IMO, he fancys Hermione.
Most of us agree that Harry will not have a serious relationship, and JKR herself has agreed with us. ("He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?"). This suggests to me that he will have a few short flings, maybe the results of his increasing popularity.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 22, 2004 10:26 am (#2079 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I took the "little romance" line to suggest that we might see, perhaps, developing feelings somewhere (not Hermione, for the reasons given above, but perhaps with some other character though I doubt a relationship would be realized until Book 7 concluded).
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 10:30 am (#2080 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
OK, but assume that Hermione does have strong feelings for Harry, as I believe sha has, and tha Harry starts to return those feelings, as I assume he will, should they stay apart to appease Ron?
Or will this be a test on Ron's loyalty, that he would be able accept this development?
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Hermy-own - Aug 22, 2004 10:32 am (#2081 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
OK, on my next read-through i'll make an extra effort to grab any H/Hr 'ship hints. I certainly haven't picked up that vibe so far; Ron/Hermione has caught my attention in a big way!
Isn't it funny how some readers think H/Hr is a certainty, whilst others feel R/Hr just as strongly? You'd think we were reading different books! It's almost as if JKR has us wrapped round her little finger
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 10:36 am (#2082 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
OK, but assume that Hermione does have strong feelings for Harry, as I believe sha has, and tha Harry starts to return those feelings, as I assume he will, should they stay apart to appease Ron?- The One.
I think if Harry and Hermione really cared for Ron's friendship, they would try and remember him. I'm not saying their relationship, if it happens, would be revolve around Ron, I'm just saying that they may have to consider Ron.
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I Am Used Vlad - Aug 22, 2004 10:40 am (#2083 of 2916)
I Am Almighty!
polly weasley: Will Harry fall for another girl in book six, or will he be too busy for romance? JK Rowling replies -> He'll be busy, but what's life without a little romance?
I've always found this answer to be rather ambiguous. Since we can only read JKR's response, it's hard to say if how import Harry's romance will be. I agree, though, that it won't be with anyone that would cause tension among the trio. To me, this rules out Hermione.
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 10:49 am (#2084 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Isn't it funny how some readers think H/Hr is a certainty, whilst others feel R/Hr just as strongly? You'd think we were reading different books!
In some way we are. Whats in the books mixes with what we already have in our head, and that mixture is unique for each and one of us.
You just need to have fun! That is the important point.
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Hermy-own - Aug 22, 2004 11:37 am (#2085 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Oh, reading the books is plenty of fun!
Accio HBP!
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Czarina II - Aug 22, 2004 11:11 pm (#2086 of 2916)
Nimrod -- I agree. A relationship between Hermione and Harry would destroy the Trio and certainly detract from the main plotline, which JKR has stated is not romantic. A relationship between Hermione and Ron would not destroy the Trio (and thus detract from the main plot) because Harry doesn't fancy Hermione like Ron does. Harry would be a bit let down by being the third wheel, but he has other friends now. He has Ginny, Neville, and Luna to start; he might spend more time hanging out with Seamus and Dean if Ron is, ahem, a bit late getting back to the dormitory once in awhile. ;-) Harry doesn't mind being alone, either. He doesn't like going to Hogsmeade by himself, but he doesn't seem to mind spending time alone in the common room, or talking with Hedwig, or whatever. On the other hand, Ron would resent Harry for taking Hermione from him and Hermione for choosing Harry over himself, so he would be miserable. He would make everyone miserable because of it, too. Everyone would be walking on eggshells around the Trio. Forget Voldemort!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 23, 2004 3:52 am (#2087 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Ok, I think it's time you guys(H/Hr and R/Hr) reach some agreement between yourself.
Firstly, does everyone agree that Ron may just have a teenage crush on Hermione?
Secondly, what's the betting that it wouldn't go away? JKR has already told us that Ginny who had a crush on Harry "gave up on him" (atleast for now). Couldn't it happen to R/Hr?
Thirdly, JKR knows that that many young children are going to be reading these books, so, IMHO, she is giving them some idea of what could happen in life. (Break in friendships; Being booed off the field, being hated by everyone, etc.) Now, consider this, if R/Hr and H/G 'ships do turn out to be true, then wouldn't that be falling in love with your "first crushes"? How many kids are going to be forunate (or unfortunate) to have that happen to them? Now, if there is a H/Hr 'ship, wouldn't that be the Hero falling for his "Platonic" Best friend? That does seem good in Hollywood movies but definately not in Children's books. (Please don't tell me HP books have a universal appeal to people of all ages; because I believe that it is still very much a children's book.)
Also, I agree with anyone who feels both, H/Hr and R/Hr would wreck the Trio. If no-one thinks so, then I agree with myself.
Well... Howzzat?
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 23, 2004 4:10 am (#2088 of 2916)
Good points Tornedo. I think you have to allude to the place you come from as well as culture. In some places, it's common for folks to marry early so people do end up marrying right out of highschool or college.
What we do know is that James went after Lily and finally got her to go out with him in their last year and end up getting married soon after. We also know that Arthur and Molly were also school sweethearts and they probably married soon after too. Add to that, Hermione wouldn't have been Ron's first crush (Fleur maybe
) and Ginny obviously wouldn't be Harry's first. And Harry would obviously not be Ginny's first boyfriend. But even so, it's not unlikely that you end up marrying your first boyfriend/girlfriend. It does happen. I would venture to say that characters that are with with each other romantically by the the end of Book 7 will be expected to get married in the near future. By the end of Book 7, our characters would have developed such a strong bond and understanding with each other, it's hard to see things change. - - - - - - - - - -
Hermy-own - Aug 23, 2004 4:36 am (#2089 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Following quotes by Tornedo:
"Firstly, does everyone agree that Ron may just have a teenage crush on Hermione?"
Yes, agreed. Whether it develops into something deeper, we'll have to wait and see.
"Secondly, what's the betting that it wouldn't go away?"
Once again, I agree. We may well find the crush fizzles out in HBP, just as Ginny's feelings for Harry appeared to fade after CoS.
"wouldn't that be the Hero falling for his "Platonic" Best friend?"
It certainly would. So would Harry falling for Luna, Ginny or Luna; he has platonic relationships with all of them. The key part with Hermioine (IMHO) is the "best friend" bit.
IMO, Harry suspects that Ron likes Hermione. So even if H develops a crush on Hermione, he would not consider a 'ship as it may harm his friendship with Ron. Obviously, this would not be a problem if Ron's feelings for Hr were to diminish. However, I doubt that Harry/Hermione will ever see each other in a romantic light. Of course, that just my opinion; I could be wrong.
As for Ron/Hermione:
I doubt their 'ship (if it happens) would hurt the trio to the same extent. Harry has developed his friendships with Neville and Ginny and at the end of OotP we see how comfortable he is talking to Luna. JKR has said there will be some romance for him in HBP, so at least there should be someone to keep him company.
I am not predicting R/Hr because it is less likely to wreck the trio than a H/Hr 'ship but because there have been plenty of suggestions in the books that the two like each other.
EDIT:
You make good points Tornedo.
I'd like to add that although HP was intended for children (and JKR has admitted this was her main aim), the book appears to be appealing to people of all ages. There are several themes/notions within the HP story which may not be obvious to a young child but may be better appreciated by an adult or teenager. I know several adults who love HP just as much as the next child does. Indeed, there are many on this forum!
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Time Traveler - Aug 23, 2004 7:02 am (#2090 of 2916)
I really want to shut my mouth up, but... I know this would cause many guy's contradiction and throwing stones to me, but... Just my little idea.
Firstly, does everyone agree that Ron may just have a teenage crush on Hermione?
Secondly, what's the betting that it wouldn't go away?
I agree with anyone who feels both, H/Hr and R/Hr would wreck the Trio
Firstly, I agreed before, but now.. I'm not so sure. To me, the only evidence of Ron's crush on Hermione is his expression of unease at Vk/Hr relationship. However, I also saw him express unease at Ginny's ships with any boys but Harry.. So, now I'm not sure that that is an inevitable evidence of Ron's 100% sexual crush on Hr. Just, I personally can't remember any specific sign of his crush other than this case.
Secondly, (I said my thoughts about these questions before) as you see, I suspect that Ron's crush may not exist or be as strong as we(?) think.. So, I think it's absolutely possible.
About the third question, I have no idea of what JKR would think. She just can do anything in her book and everything can happen in our world. So I think she will write what she wants to write and what she thinks is interesting unless that is too disgusting or too suggestive. (Well, I think her books have already a little more dreadful scenes than usual children books, though.)
Lastly, sorry, but I don't think any relationship among Trio should destroy their whole relation. Of course, I also think it's pretty possible, but I just think that there can be solutions to it.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 23, 2004 7:34 am (#2091 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I don't feel that Ron is crushing on Hermione; I think it's something else. It's not the same sort of 'blush every time they're near, stick your elbow in the butter dish because they looked at you, stutter out every word you say' hormonal sort of thing. It's something that grew slowly, when no-one was looking, out of a very deep friendship. So no, I don't think it's a "teenage crush" and that is will just "go away".
As for how many people get married just out of high school, I guess that depends on where you're from. It's rather common where I'm from and has been for generations. My parents married just out of high school, so did many couples I can think of. One of my brothers got married early in college (just a few years out of high school). His friends did likewise. I think of a half-dozen teachers off the top of my head that I had in high school who married their high school sweethearts. It's not that uncommon a thing. Admittedly, it still might be a small percentage of people, but not an unheard of number.....
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Crookshanks - Aug 23, 2004 8:24 am (#2092 of 2916)
Edited by Aug 23, 2004 8:28 am
Some interesting points in place,there but my money's with Tornedo on either ship wrecking the trio.
There's this small clarification I wanted to make about the Rita Skeeter interview Hermione arranged for Harry.IMHO,Hermione fixed 12 noon deliberately. When the trio went to meet Sirius in GoF during one of their Hogsmeade weekends, they got back safe by around 1530 hrs. Harry tells Hermione that he might have to spend the entire day with Cho,so she could have fixed the meeting up at 1430 hrs instead, if she didn't want Harry's date to go bizarre. We know that Hermione's very good at judging people. She knew how hopeless Harry is with girls. Yet she doesn't tell him the motive behind fixing up their meeting. If only she had,Harry would have told Cho "Look,I've gotta meet Hermione at 3BS at 12 noon.I've got to tell the world the truth about Voldemort. Why don't you join me there ? You'll have all your questions about Cedric answered". But Hermione left Harry with no clue about the reason of their meeting.She just says "It's really important". And Harry was left with no choice but to say "Look,I've gotta meet Hermione at 12 noon at 3 BS.You can accompany me if you wish."
Now,people out there would say - "Well,she didn't want Harry to have a 'troubled' date". The revelation to Harry that he could speak out the truth to the world that afternoon would have made Harry lighter. She needn't have mentioned that Rita was the reporter.Harry wouldn't care. He would look forward to unburdening himself & that would have brightened his spirits all the more.
About the animagus theory,well.Not very far-fetched. I think Harry would live thru the entire experience even with Rita "pressing for every little detail".And how do we know that Hermione wasn't quite sentimental in having a "cascaded" Valentine date with Harry ? We know that Rita & Luna left after the interview.This means,Hermione had Harry for herself for 2.5 hours,say at least 1 hour (assuming the interview lasted an hour & that they could get back by 1530 hrs). All the time Harry & Hermione spent long hours unto themselves,is just shielded from the reader, be it the long hour they spend with the Time-Turner in PoA or this one or the walks around the lake in GoF.
Some of you say,Hermione didn't want Cho to replace her as Harry's best friend & that she wouldn't probably mind Ginny & also add on that she is a little over-possessive about Harry.To me,it sounds like a paradox.
We see a marked transition in her reaction towards the H/C 'ship as OotP progresses. First,outside the Herbology class or wherever when Cho meets Harry and starts this argument with Ron about some quidditch team,Hermione spiritedly shouts at Ron for being very naive.Then,as the DA & stuff progresses,she turns brisk & businesslike with the topic,something she never is with Harry.She's either nagging or very loving (as a friend) towards him. And then Ron becomes the scapegoat for her frustrations.And then Harry's date bombs & she is "bright" & not feeling as sad as she outwardly appears.
She then also writes her letter to Krum in their presence.She already knows Ron's jealous of this.May be her intention was to make Harry jealous of that.
After the duel at DoM,Harry is back at DD's office & amongst his heated conversations with DD,he still sees sense in Hermione asking him to practise Occlumency.Ron's existence takes a backseat.
Harry makes up more easily with Hermione than Ron and infact there's been no fight as long a breach between Harry & Hermione as there was between him & Ron in GoF,not even the Firebolt issue.
IMO,have the 2nd task of the Triwizard again and this time the thing Harry's gonna miss most is probably Hermione.
Lastly,there was this great ruckus about Hermione not being the heroine of the series.Has anyone noticed that the word "Hermione" 'kangaroos' the word "Heroine" ? And that the word "Harry" sounds not too far from the word "Hero" ? (Nothing to do with the 'ships, but then an avid observation)
Arguments "invited".
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 9:58 am (#2093 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Sorry guys, I said I was going to post my (long winded) reply to some of the discussions last week... but I got distracted with work! Firstly… Marcus.. loved the fan fic and I can actually see that type of scenario playing out in HBP... still not a H/P shipper... but you never know
Looney Luna :’Harry needs a girl so he can cut loose and have some fun’.
The One : ‘But he also needs a girl that understands what he is going through, and who is willing do support him’
Hmmm, sounds to me like you have both just described little Ms Weasley
Sarah, I agree in that Rons feelings for Hermione are just that little bit more than a teenage crush... but I don't think even he is aware of that! Nice to see you back by the way!
So here is my essay from last week…. It's quite long (I got a bit Hermione on it ) So feel free to skip past it. It's probably full of points made before... but it's mostly points that have been bursting to get out of my head. I’m actually quite nervous about posting as it’s probably a load of tripe… but where better to share my mad ravings than with my forum buddies
As I said before, feel free to skip, disagree or rip apart... just no name calling or flame throwing please Remember it's just my observations and thoughts... it's more than likely a load of waffle.... but without further ado, here it is anyways....
Hormones and Hexes - Deciphering the Hermione Enigma (And some thoughts on Ron )
Just what is going on in Hermiones Head ? It’s the age old question in regards to most ‘shipping debates. Who does she like? Will HBP hold any surprises… will she date Ron or does she prefer Harry? Indeed will she show an interest or date anyone in HBP?
Hermione likes to be perceived as being quite mature and together, and it is this tendency of being able to control her emotional outbursts (more so than the others) that makes for a good literary device. She’s slightly guarded about her feelings… so we the reader are never quite sure of where her preferences lie. As we know JK loves to play this up to the maximum.
It has been previously discussed and never really disputed on this thread (and indeed this forum), that both Harry and Ron are light years behind poor old Hermione in the maturity stakes. So then is it any wonder that she appears to get increasingly annoyed with the boys as the story progresses. However, I will add at this point that the revelation that is the prophecy will do a great deal in sobering up Harry to the adult world, an innocence lost to a extent!
Hermione’s expression of her frustration at their immaturity is usually where we begin to see her letting down her guard and displaying some of her more emotional responses. It is here that we begin to see that even though she is more mature than the boys (not hard, one may argue), Hermione herself has also a bit of growing up to do!
This annoyance is especially pronouced when the trio are discussing boy/girl issues. If we take for example the conversation that takes place after Harry and Cho kiss. As the conversation progresses, Hermione gets increasingly frustrated with Rons behaviour, to the point that she makes a couple of nasty remarks at his expense. When Ron makes his comment about "a bit of kissing should cheer her [Cho] up", Hermione lashes back at him saying that he is "the most insensitive wart she has ever met".
Wow, hold up a bit there Hermione, that’s a bit harsh don’t you think! To me this is a little out of character for Hermione, after all she's not generally the most vindictive person... unless she’s not fully in control of her emotions. Hmm, take for example when she gets frustrated with Malfoy, Rita et al.
Further into their discussion, even after she attempts to explain what (she thinks) Cho is feeling and Ron still doesn’t seem to understand (neither does Harry for that matter), she gets even more frustrated with Ron and tells him he has the "emotional range of a teaspoon". Ouch, now that’s got to hurt!
To me, this is partly her being annoyed at Ron’s childish behaviour in regards to girls and kissing, and is therefore lashing out at him with these snide comments. This shows us that Hermione is not as mature as she would like to think she is. That she herself isn’t above a bit of name calling and it also shows that she isn’t immune to feeling a bit of jealously. Yes I did say jealousy as I also think there is a hint of jealousy from Hermione here.
Now before you get all excited, I’m not saying that she wants to swap places with Cho, but it is possible that she is jealous of the fact that Harry is the first of the trio that has got down to a bit of a snogging (as so to speak, kisses on cheeks wouldn’t be classed as snogs). After all, she feels she is the most mature of the bunch, so why did Harry get this honour? Maturity is the stake that she has on the trio... something she is very proud of.. but the fact that Harry has kissed someone, before she has... (maybe she did kiss Viktor, we don’t actually know, I’m guessing here, but something tells me that she didn’t), does that mean that Harry is suddenly more mature than her?
Perhaps this is what has got to her more. Add that to the fact that Ron seems to find the whole thing hilarious, like the concept of kissing someone is a huge joke, makes for one peeved Hermione. Harry seems to have found someone who is willing to be mature about the whole 'kissing' thing, and herself... well... the guy she seems to have some 'chemistry' with, is the hyena lying on the floor... raucously laughing over the fact that Harry has kissed a girl!
I also add at this point, that to me, the 'brisk... business like manner' in which she discusses Harry and Cho’s kiss... is Hermione trying to show the lads that she is more mature than them... that she can discuss these matters in an adult like fashion, and not get all giggly or childish unlike Ron!
However, I think as their fifth year progresses, we do start to see some subtle changes in Ron’s behaviour. If you look at their [Ron and Hermione’s] interactions in OotP, the arguments start off as the two sniping away at one another... but the dynamic changes somewhat through the book. More often, it is Hermione that picks the fight. Ron will say some comment off the cuff (maybe he's looking for a reaction who knows), but increasingly she just seems to pick on whatever he is saying and makes an argument with it.
There are a few examples in OotP where we see Hermione picking or attempting to pick a fight with Ron. One I can recall, is where Ron mentions that Umbridge is trying to get the students to act as spies, Hermione immediately snaps back at him unprovoked, however (as usual) Harry steps in to diffuse the situation.
Ron even starts to keep his opinions of Viktor to himself (and Harry), as he begins to refrain from commenting in front of Hermione. By not picking a fight... are we seeing some sort of maturity in Ron? He even takes the stance in arguments of not directly contradicting Hermione, or by getting his point across by not resorting to sniping. In regards to the Krum issue, indeed it seems he is almost resigned the to the fact that Hermione likes Krum.
That leads me unto the next thought floating around in my head.... What about Krum? Just what is going on with him and Hermione? How does she feel about him.... why is she still writing to him... and why does she make sure Ron knows that she is still writing to him?
NOTE : To be continued in the next post... sorry!
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 9:59 am (#2094 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Hormones & Hexes Continued (sorry it's so long)
I reread GoF a few weeks back and I noticed that just after the spectacular climax of the Quidditch World cup... Hermione leans on edge of the balcony of the top box and watches him [Krum] land on the pitch below (refusing attention from the Mediwizards). She then makes a comment... "He was very brave, wasn't he". (chpt 8 GoF). I never even noticed that part before... but it seems that Hermione was at least a little taken by Krum's Quidditch heroics. I'm not saying that she fancies/fancied him... but just thought it was an interesting little observation from Miss Granger.
Ok, so nothing seems to have happened between them in GoF, apart from attending the ball together. After the second task, Hermione is more interested in Harry and Rons well being, so much so, that she almost dismisses Krums attention completely. All the more poignant when we find out later that he was in the middle of telling her that he's "Never felt this way about another girl".
You could argue that she isn't interested in Krum, and that she might even have been a bit scared off by this declaration, however you could also argue that she's still that little bit flattered... dare I say curious. After all, Krum is a world famous quidditch player and even if she denies it ‘til she’s blue in the face, Hermione can still have her head turned by a famous face. As Ron so 'subtly' pointed out in GoF, "*cough*Lockhart*cough*". But if she isn't that little bit interested, why then does she continue her correspondence with Krum?
To add to this little mystery, we never actually find out if she did visit Krum in Bulgaria. (Harry (or Ron for that matter), why didn't you ever ask? ) I do doubt that she would have had time to go to Bulgaria, seeing as she appeared to be with the Weasleys for most of the summer after fourth year, (according to Harrys point of view), but you never know! It is interesting to note that when JK was asked this question in the World Book Day Web Chat, she avoided giving a direct answer.
renata: What happened between hermiona and viktor krum during the summer?
JK Rowling replies -> Ron would like to know that, too.
So how does Hermione feel about Krum? To be honest, we don't actually know. We can guess and guess... but we still don't have any solid proof. If anything I'd say she’s confused. Here we have a perfectly nice bloke, who is head over heels for her, but she doesn't seem not too sure of him. For a start he might be a little bit too mature for her (how’s that for irony), however, it could be very easy to get caught up in the romance of it all.
She's flattered, he's famous, he likes her, he chose her as his date out of all the girls in the school, he actively pursued her by going to the library so often, he was jealous of her friendship with Harry, he wants her to visit him in Bulgaria, and he doesn't appear to find the thought of kissing a girl to be hilarious! What girl wouldn't be flattered by (some of) this. It would be very easy for her to mistake the feeling of flattery for something more. I mean she does seem to actually like the guy, and his company, why else would she choose to write to him, we just don't know if she feels anything more.
However, if we look at things in OotP, from Rons perspective, even he thinks that Hermione is still with Krum, or at least she still has romantic notions of Krum. e.g. the "What does she see in him" quote he says to Harry. Hermione has stated that he’s just a penpal of sorts... but Ron doesn't really appear to accept this explanation, "'He didn't only want to be your pen pal,' said Ron accusingly". (OotP Chpt 16)
We also have heard from JK (WBD Web Chat), that Krum will reappear in the series... just not in the immediate future. So what does all this mean... will Hermione end up running into the Bulgarian sunset leaving 'ickle Ronniekins broken hearted?
I must admit, this has crossed my mind. As I said before, JK has kept Hermione's feelings pretty guarded, as opposed to Rons. After GoF, to be honest, I did expect something significant to happen between Ron and Hermione... perhaps a date, at least more awkward and embarrassing moments, or even another spectacular argument... but we didn't really see anything like this, (a few awkward moments aside). In fact, if anything, things seemed to have slowed down between the two, perhaps JK is trying to last the storyline out until the last book, (so says my little suspicious mind), or perhaps it's all part of the intricate plot. So then, did the good ship R/Hr sink in OotP?
Personally I don't think so, it may have taken on a bit of water in the choppy seas of OotP, but I think that it's still afloat.... just!
If we look at the time period from June of their 4th year to June of their 5th year, Ron and Hermione haven't exactly had a smooth year. What with 'ol Voldy coming back from the near dead and Harry barely escaping with his life. Add to the mix, getting caught up in the delicate politics of the Wizarding World.... helping out with a secret society, worrying about Harry, being careful about what you say when talking to strangers, trying to figure out friend from foe, worrying about Harry, Umbridge, the mini political arena in Hogwarts, worrying about Harry, the attack on Arthur (especially so for Ron), Percys behaviour (again more so for Ron), worrying about Harry, the added pressure of being a prefect, and of course it being OWL year, to name but a few, and oh yes, worrying about Harry!
It has hardly been a regular year for normal wizarding teens, or a healthy environment for the two to develop their friendship into anything more, if they so wished. Add to that, Ron thinking that Hermione is still with 'that Krum bloke'... he probably feels he doesn't have a chance .... again with the 'ol lack of self confidence thing. Perhaps he feels its not his place to put any moves on her... not if she's with someone else. I also think he's not mature enough yet to admit exactly what he's feeling... but even if he did, he’s probably too scared to act upon it and perhaps is using the 'shes with Krum excuse' as a way of justifying this to himself.
Is it any wonder Hermione is so frustrated with him... after all Ron made it very obvious in GoF that he fancied her... but he still hasn't acted on it! She even makes a point of writing her letters to Viktor in Ron's presence, when Ron queries who the 'essay' is for and she replies Krum, Ron pretty much shuts up and leaves it at that. I wonder if that is the reaction she was looking for
So if at this point Hermione starts to lighten and stop taking herself so seriously, and Ron begins to grow up just that little bit, what next for the two? As I view it, if this was a game of chess, its pretty much stalemate. Neither is willing to make a move, so is often the case between friends who find themselves in this situation.
Its hard for them to admit what they are feeling and indeed, weighing it up to see if it’s worth the risk. What with everything that is going on in the Wizarding World during and most likely after their 5th year. They also try to be considerate of Harry’s feelings, they felt bad that he was left out when they became prefects & then with his potential to explode over certain situations. When they get to hear the contents of the prophecy, they will worry about him even more.
They have had and will probably continue to have a lot on their plates, so much so, that they barely make time for themselves.... ah but as JK said herself... "what's life without a little romance?" (WBD webchat). So will Ron and Hermione continue to dance around one another and avoid the issue of their feelings for one another for another book? Yes ... I think they will.
NB: If you've made it this far, thanks for reading, if you skipped thats ok too :g
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Eponine - Aug 23, 2004 10:16 am (#2095 of 2916)
Nicely done, Fawkes Forever.
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 10:17 am (#2096 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Eponine ... was a bit nervous about posting...
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Kasse - Aug 23, 2004 10:52 am (#2097 of 2916)
No need to be nervous Fawks, I for one loved it, very well done It got me thinking, I am even going to email it to a friend of mine who is not a forum member.......
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S.E. Jones - Aug 23, 2004 11:01 am (#2098 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Fawkes Forever: Sarah, I agree in that Rons feelings for Hermione are just that little bit more than a teenage crush... but I don't think even he is aware of that! Nice to see you back by the way!
Thanks. It's nice to know I was even missed!
And I loved the essay. You should try sending Steve an email with a link to those posts (don't send the actual essay unless he emails you back about it) and a line or two describing what it's about. Maybe you can get it on the Lexicon....
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Star Crossed - Aug 23, 2004 11:50 am (#2099 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Wonderful job, FF. The essay was brilliant and explained a lot. Take ten points.
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 23, 2004 11:56 am (#2100 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Guys, I don't think it's worthy of a place on the lex... but just a 'few' thoughts that I had to get 'on paper'. Thanks again
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mike miller - Aug 23, 2004 7:33 pm (#2101 of 2916)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Outstanding essay Fawkes! Take 25 points. I don't think I've read any post on this thread that more accurately captures what's going on between Ron and Hermione. Picking up on the conversation after the Harry/Cho kiss might be the best indication of how Hermoine feels about Ron. She really fancies him and she is frustrated by his immaturity. Krum creates a conflict in that he's acting the way she would like Ron to act, but her feelings for Krum are not like her feelings for Ron. Very Well Done!!!!
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 23, 2004 7:45 pm (#2102 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I was thinking about the big battle between the R/Hr and H/Hr and decided to post a question to the lot. Here it is. Look at your primary evidence for your 'ship and if it disappeared from the text would the couple still be considered friends?
It think that this will separate the evidence that points to friendship from that of a 'ship.
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Czarina II - Aug 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#2103 of 2916)
Fawkes Forever, that was a fantastic essay. You really should submit it to the Lexicon. It's very well-written and then more of us would be able to read it. You could edit it a bit too, if you wanted. It doesn't need the editing, though! Great job!
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 24, 2004 6:14 am (#2104 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Aww shucks.. thanks again guys
Mike, I think you summed up what I was trying to put across in a few sentences... why can't I do that... hee hee! Then you all wouldn't have to shift through all the waffle...
I think if I were to submit it to the Lexicon it would need a lot of editing & a spell check methinks, lol!
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 24, 2004 8:14 am (#2105 of 2916)
I honestly don't think that Hermione will go out with either Harry or Ron until she is absolutely certain that the "odd man out" is okay with it. Remember how much it pained her the last time Harry and Ron were at each other's throats...
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Hermy-own - Aug 24, 2004 9:44 am (#2106 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Agreed Paulus. I think her 'ship would also consider the odd man out before going ahead with Hermione.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 24, 2004 12:32 pm (#2107 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
For those of you who think either H/H or R/H will cause problems with the trio, the trio is already starting to drift apart.
Ron and Hermione are prefects. Harry isn't.
Harry is no longer automatically confiding everything with the trio.
Harry didn't even go to the End-of-term feast with Ron, preferring to lie to Ron about it.
Starting with N.E.W.T. classes, Harry will have even less in common with Ron. He might pick up some of that in Quidditch, but I have always suspected that Harry is going to drop Quidditch. Simply too much going on.
So the trio is drifting apart already. A 'ship will only cause it to happen quicker.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 24, 2004 1:28 pm (#2108 of 2916)
I'm not sure I agree with you Marcus. What really makes me say that is the forest scene in OoP. Harry's thought was something to the effect that if he had to chose members of the D.A. other than Ron or Hermione to go on a rescue mission, he would not have chosen the crew (Neville, Luna, Ginny) in front of him. At least at that point, Harry's solidarity with Ron & Hermione is firmly in tact. Harry is very melancholy after Sirius' death, so I don't put much in store with him skipping the feast or even lying about it later.
I am a little puzzled by what makes you say that N.E.W.T.'s will distance Ron from Harry even more. What makes you say that?
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Catherine - Aug 24, 2004 1:50 pm (#2109 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Ok, I admit I haven't been reading this thread lately, and I caught up today,
I only just realized that Marcus wrote a fanfic! What the double heck?
I mean, did the earth go flat? Did pigs fly? What happened? I thought Marcus didn't read or write fanfic! **Catherine considers slipping some Veritaserum into Marcus's pumpkin juice to see if it's an impostor in Marcus's body**
Well, that said, I should say that this revealation caused me to read fanfic for the very first time. You did well, Marcus. I enjoyed myself.
Now, about your last post. I don't make the explicit connection between Harry distancing himself from Ron due to N.E.W.T.s. They essentially have the same career goals and class schedule, so I guess I'm being thick.
Also, I don't know that Harry's distancing himself from Ron and Hermione specifically. Harry is traumatized and depressed and feels alienated in general right now. Also, Harry has a history of being less than forthcoming with this friends, so I don't see this as a sudden or new trend.
** Catherine walks slowly away, still bemused that Marcus wrote fanfic **
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 24, 2004 2:30 pm (#2110 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 24, 2004 2:32 pm
Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I tend to do that when I try to write short posts.
The point I was trying to make is that the trio is not as close as they once were and all signs point to further separation. Not that they WILL separate. I don't for one second think their friendship and companionship will end. It will just evolve. Ron and Hermione will become more involved with each other and Harry will seek other sources of companionship.
I think Ron and Harry will have fewer classes together starting this year. I highly doubt Ron will be in NEWT Potions, for instance. Nor do I think it likely that he will be in NEWT Transfiguration either, though he might. Certainly Ron will likely be with Harry in Charms and DADA. It would not surprise me if Harry dropped either Herbology or CoMC, though this is not certain. Ron is sure to be taking both of them
My point is that Harry will no long go everywhere with Ron. He will also have tons of homework that has nothing to do with what Ron is studying.
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Kasse - Aug 24, 2004 3:06 pm (#2111 of 2916)
I understand your point Marcus but why are you so sure that Ron will be in Herbology or CoMC?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 24, 2004 3:12 pm (#2112 of 2916)
We won't know for sure what classes R/H will take because we don't know what careers they picked. But I agree with Prefect Marcus, Harry and Ron probably won't have all the same classes in HBP, but that won't affect their friendship.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 24, 2004 4:14 pm (#2113 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 24, 2004 4:15 pm
Kasse - why are you so sure that Ron will be in Herbology or CoMC?
Other than CoMC and Herbology, if you assume that Ron will drop Potions, Divination, and likely Transfiguration, he is left with only Charms, DADA, and Astronomy. Ron is not the brightest lumos spell around, but I don't see him sliding by his last two years, do you?
There are three reasons for this. One, his mother. Molly would never allow him to do the minimum. Two, Hermione. If he is ever to win her heart he MUST excel at something other than comic relief. Three, his pride.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 24, 2004 4:20 pm (#2114 of 2916)
The point I was trying to make is that the trio is not as close as they once were and all signs point to further separation-- Prefect Marcus.
I'm not sure if we're getting off topic with this or not. (The discussion has sort of flowed here, though.) I don't see them as not being as close as they once were. As I pointed out above, Harry wasn't keen on including Neville, Ginny, or Luna on the rescue mission, but there was little, if any, question that he fully expected Ron and Hermione to come with him. Now, at the very end, Harry's pretty traumatized and ditches Ron & Hermione when the discussion turns to something he doesn't want to think about. He similarly ditches Hagrid shortly after that. But, throughout the book, I found them close as ever, even in light of the bickering bits.
As for grades, what evidence is there that Ron would be incapable of achieving exactly the same grades as Harry? Movie-Ron is quite a dolt, but book-Ron is never spoken of as incompetent or mediocre when it comes to grades, at least in comparison to Harry. As a matter of fact, the only grade that comes to my mind is the first potion essay which Snape marked to O.W.L. Standard. Harry was "dreadful" but Ron got a good, healthy "P."
I would agree 100% that, at some point, Harry will find himself completely alone, facing Voldemort. But, prior to that, any distance the Ron/Hermione 'ship could cause is easily solved by Harry's eventual 'ship becoming part of the group. The trio thus becomes a foursome. (If given a chance, Hermione and Pansy might become the best of friends. *ahem*)
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Catherine - Aug 24, 2004 4:24 pm (#2115 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Hermione and Pansy might become the best of friends. *ahem*) --Loopy Lupin
Ahem, indeed.
Well...oh, never mind.
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Hermy-own - Aug 24, 2004 4:35 pm (#2116 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
I agree Lupin, especially with that last little paragraph.
Although Harry wasn't keen on including N/G/L on the rescue mission I believe they might well accompany him on similar battles later in the series. And who knows, Harry might start to trust them a little more. I wouldn't dismiss the DoM sextet just yet.
EDIT:
Catherine posted just before me. Lol Catherine! I must have missed that 'ahem' on your post Lupin!
Brings back memories of a certain thread...
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Sir Tornado - Aug 25, 2004 3:55 am (#2117 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Confused with the flurry of activity going around*
Fawkes, good job on that essay.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 25, 2004 10:32 am (#2118 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 25, 2004 10:33 am
Catherine - I thought Marcus didn't read or write fanfic! **Catherine considers slipping some Veritaserum into Marcus's pumpkin juice to see if it's an impostor in Marcus's body**
You'll never catch me that way. I only drink from my own hip-flask. :-)
No, I seldom read Fanfic and write it even less. I do not wish to inflict on others that which is painful for myself. The plot has to be strong, the situations believable, and the characters have to be a perfect echo of the author's originals right down to the last subtle nuance. It should be as indistinguishable from the original author's work as possible. And let's face it, there is only one JKR.
However, I wanted to show how easily Rowling could set a H/P 'ship sailing, so I wrote this little snippet. I was truly surprised how easily it came. It flowed with very little effort. There was not one convoluted twist, tie, or tuck. I think that speaks volumes to the strength of the H/P 'ship.
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Hermy-own - Aug 25, 2004 11:15 am (#2119 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"I wanted to show how easily Rowling could set a H/P 'ship sailing"
And you did so very convincingly, Marcus.
Siriusly, you should consider writing more fanfic...
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 25, 2004 11:21 am (#2120 of 2916)
Maybe it just flowed because you have a calling as a fanfic writer?
It may have also flowed because (putting Pansy aside for a second) you (and quite a few others, myself included) don't believe that the Slytherin's, as a group, can all just be one-dimensionally bad and nasty. All, except for Death Nibblers, have to be frightened or at least concerned that LV is back. There should be no one who (a la Regulus Black) this time around is confused or mislead by LV's true purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if Pansy isn't the only reformation.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 25, 2004 12:46 pm (#2121 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Loopy - I wouldn't be surprised if Pansy isn't the only reformation.
Nor should you be. That seed was planted in the fanfic if you look close enough. But I think Pansy will be the first. She is a leader, after all.
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Padfoot - Aug 25, 2004 1:42 pm (#2122 of 2916)
I too agree that more than one Slytherin will reform. Now that Voldemort is out and about, I think we will see some division in the Slytherin house over loyalties and such. I am all for Pansy reforming. It would be nice to see her with a different attitude.
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dragon keeper - Aug 25, 2004 3:41 pm (#2123 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I am interested in seeing how Rita Skeeter behaves in the next book. It seemed that she and Hermoine teamed up in OotP, but once the year-long ban is over, no more beetle at bay. Does she still work for the Daily Prophet?
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Padfoot - Aug 25, 2004 3:48 pm (#2124 of 2916)
I guess she does, although I am not sure. I wonder if Rita will end up in a relationship? If she did, I wonder who would the wizard would be? Any guesses?
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Catherine - Aug 25, 2004 3:58 pm (#2125 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Oooh, Rita. Who to pair Rita with?
Well, Lockhart comes to mind, but it may be difficult for him to conduct a courtship from a locked ward. Plus, he loves himself more than anyone else, I would think. But he could write love notes with joined-up writing!
Perhaps a May-December romance with Marcus Flint or Oliver Wood. (I'm laughing thinking of the CoS movie Marcus Flint with his scary dentition and "a gift from Draco's father" line).
Lupin is too nice for Rita, but she is an Animagus. She could beetle around if he transformed and no potion was available... Nah. She'd bug him too much.
Maybe Kingsley Shacklebolt could keep her in check. He seems like he is a man who weighs his words carefully. Maybe he could teach her not to run off at the mouth.
Maybe she already has a thing going with her photographer, Bozo.
This was a tough one for me.
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Hermy-own - Aug 25, 2004 4:13 pm (#2126 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"... Nah. She'd bug him too much."
Haha! Brilliant, Catherine!
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dragon keeper - Aug 25, 2004 4:44 pm (#2127 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
"... Nah. She'd bug him too much."
brilliant, indeed!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 25, 2004 8:20 pm (#2128 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Rita 'ship... ok, I think this might be a really significant thing. There have been some rumours on the Net that in the next book(s), Snape is going to have a 'ship of his own. It may or may not be true or significant. But, in OotP, we were shown the power of press first hand. So, if there is a 'Ship between Severus and Rita, wouldn't the Order having a prime Daily Prophet reporter on their side be advantagious to them? Also, there could be a subplot(s) whence Rita would publish an article badmouthing Harry (at Snape's request of course). That would make Harry even more miserable; which is what JKR seems to like, doesn't she?
Also, you have to agree here, Snape and Skeeter do look mean together, don't they?
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 25, 2004 9:11 pm (#2129 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
One word for that ship, Tornedo. YUCK!!!!!
Leila
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Kasse - Aug 26, 2004 5:55 am (#2130 of 2916)
I agree Leila _ I am not if favour of a Rita/Snape ship for that matter I am not in favour of a Rita/Kingsley ship either and yes Lupin is too nce for her.
She needs somone as equally as annoying as she is.......It is such a shame that Lockheart is not available.
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Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 6:06 am (#2131 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Well, Kasse, we still have two books to go, so maybe someone will emerge as the perfectly awful match for Rita!
Pity that Lockhart's on the closed ward...
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LooneyLuna - Aug 26, 2004 6:40 am (#2132 of 2916)
Snape and Skeeter - Eeeewww! Don't bats eat bugs? Maybe Skeeter and Dung? Sounds better. I cannot imagine Snape with anyone, he might actually have to open up and be pleasant and of course, wash his hair.
Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 6:45 am (#2133 of 2916)[/b]
Canon Seeker
Ah, so Rita is a "Dung"-beetle.
I like that pairing!
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LooneyLuna - Aug 26, 2004 6:49 am (#2134 of 2916)
D'oh! Catherine Allen - I didn't even make that connection.
10 points for you!
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 26, 2004 8:31 am (#2135 of 2916)
Nah... Skeeter would figure out everything about 'Dung's shady deals, report him to the MoM, and have him arrested.
On second thought... would that be such a bad thing?
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Chris. - Aug 26, 2004 9:12 am (#2136 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Paulus, yes, yes, yes! Dung is such a great characters, shady but great.
I don't think Rita'll have a 'ship unless there's someone in HbP or book seven who really deserves her. Hmmm... VOLDIE!
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Padfoot - Aug 26, 2004 11:46 am (#2137 of 2916)
Rita would never go out with Dung, she would look down on him. I have a hard time picturing Snape even being in the same room as Rita. I would never pair Lupin with her as I like Lupin too much. Kingsley might have the patience to deal with Rita. Lockheart would have been great.
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 12:40 pm (#2138 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Catherine--Ah, so Rita is a "Dung"-beetle.
Where do you come up with this stuff!!!
I think some people are destined to be lonely and miserable (Karma maybe) and Rita and Snape might be two of those people. Sad but true...
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 12:51 pm (#2139 of 2916)
Well if Rita does end up with someone they would have a hard time cheating on her. So Mr Right for Rita would have to be really faithful or really sneaky.
Has anyone noticed that not to many of the adults in the series are married. The only living couples that I can think of are the Weaslys and the Malfoys. Didn't think I'd ever compare the two. None of the Faculty or the Order members (Besides the Weaslys) are married. I think that that points to a possible life of bachelorhood for Harry.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 12:58 pm (#2140 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Has anyone noticed that not to many of the adults in the series are married.
Actually, HelloCello600, Rowling states that some of the Hogwarts staff are married. We will learn more later.
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Kasse - Aug 26, 2004 1:07 pm (#2141 of 2916)
Do you think that some of the Hogwarts staff are married.......to each other?
Maybe Prof Bines was once Madamme Pomfrey's husband?
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 1:18 pm (#2142 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Kasse - Do you think that some of the Hogwarts staff are married.......to each other?
I don't see why not. In fact, it makes sense. Harry hasn't seen any non-teacher adults at Hogwarts before this that have been identified as spouses.
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Star Crossed - Aug 26, 2004 1:20 pm (#2143 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Kasse - Do you think that some of the Hogwarts staff are married.......to each other?
Still saying that Snape and Sinistra are together, if not married.
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Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 1:23 pm (#2144 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Still saying that Snape and Sinistra are together, if not married. --Star Crossed
Ssshh! Don't tell Gina that!
EDIT: Where do you come up with this stuff!!! --Dragon Slayer
Oh, I've been hanging out with Timrew and Loopy Lupin lately. They've been such an inspiration!
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timrew - Aug 26, 2004 5:03 pm (#2145 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
'Dung' beetle! I like it, Catherine!
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Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 5:13 pm (#2146 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tim, my mentor, wrote, 'Dung' beetle! I like it, Catherine!
***blushes***
I'm learning, Tim. I'm taking lessons from the best...
**hails the King of SPEW**
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 6:54 pm (#2147 of 2916)
Thanks for setting me straight Marcus. That's interesting that some of the teachers are married and we haven't met there spouses yet. I had a friend from Britain whose father was a headmaster at a boarding school and I belive the whole family lived there. Anyone here go to a boarding school? Are the familys of staff visible or do they live off campus? I guess that some teachers might go home in the evening, but alot of stories envolve faculty out in the halls at night. Even at a regular school, you usually hear about a teacher's family pretty early on (If they have any). I would predict that only teachers that play minor roles have spouses. For instance, If Prof. McGonagall had a husband, he would probably be helping the Order.
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Star Crossed - Aug 26, 2004 6:56 pm (#2148 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I have a funny feeling Mickey G was married at one point, but he died in the war against Voldemort.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 7:05 pm (#2149 of 2916)
I had a similar thought too right after I posted. There is no real evidence for that but it makes sense. It is likely that she married and fanily members of Order member would have been in danger.He could have also died during the Grindelwald conflict right? Prof McGonagall is about seventy and that was.... well I don't feel like looking up dates but I have a feeling that they would be too young.
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Czarina II - Aug 26, 2004 9:06 pm (#2150 of 2916)
"It is likely that she married and fanily members of Order member would have been in danger.He could have also died during the Grindelwald conflict right? Prof McGonagall is about seventy and that was.... well I don't feel like looking up dates but I have a feeling that they would be too young."-- hellocello600
Well, Minerva could have had a boyfriend around that time (she'd have been about Tonks' age) who was killed, and then she never met anyone else. Ah, the hopeless romantic in me wins out again!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Outstanding essay Fawkes! Take 25 points. I don't think I've read any post on this thread that more accurately captures what's going on between Ron and Hermione. Picking up on the conversation after the Harry/Cho kiss might be the best indication of how Hermoine feels about Ron. She really fancies him and she is frustrated by his immaturity. Krum creates a conflict in that he's acting the way she would like Ron to act, but her feelings for Krum are not like her feelings for Ron. Very Well Done!!!!
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 23, 2004 7:45 pm (#2102 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
I was thinking about the big battle between the R/Hr and H/Hr and decided to post a question to the lot. Here it is. Look at your primary evidence for your 'ship and if it disappeared from the text would the couple still be considered friends?
It think that this will separate the evidence that points to friendship from that of a 'ship.
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Czarina II - Aug 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#2103 of 2916)
Fawkes Forever, that was a fantastic essay. You really should submit it to the Lexicon. It's very well-written and then more of us would be able to read it. You could edit it a bit too, if you wanted. It doesn't need the editing, though! Great job!
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 24, 2004 6:14 am (#2104 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Aww shucks.. thanks again guys
Mike, I think you summed up what I was trying to put across in a few sentences... why can't I do that... hee hee! Then you all wouldn't have to shift through all the waffle...
I think if I were to submit it to the Lexicon it would need a lot of editing & a spell check methinks, lol!
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 24, 2004 8:14 am (#2105 of 2916)
I honestly don't think that Hermione will go out with either Harry or Ron until she is absolutely certain that the "odd man out" is okay with it. Remember how much it pained her the last time Harry and Ron were at each other's throats...
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Hermy-own - Aug 24, 2004 9:44 am (#2106 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Agreed Paulus. I think her 'ship would also consider the odd man out before going ahead with Hermione.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 24, 2004 12:32 pm (#2107 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
For those of you who think either H/H or R/H will cause problems with the trio, the trio is already starting to drift apart.
Ron and Hermione are prefects. Harry isn't.
Harry is no longer automatically confiding everything with the trio.
Harry didn't even go to the End-of-term feast with Ron, preferring to lie to Ron about it.
Starting with N.E.W.T. classes, Harry will have even less in common with Ron. He might pick up some of that in Quidditch, but I have always suspected that Harry is going to drop Quidditch. Simply too much going on.
So the trio is drifting apart already. A 'ship will only cause it to happen quicker.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 24, 2004 1:28 pm (#2108 of 2916)
I'm not sure I agree with you Marcus. What really makes me say that is the forest scene in OoP. Harry's thought was something to the effect that if he had to chose members of the D.A. other than Ron or Hermione to go on a rescue mission, he would not have chosen the crew (Neville, Luna, Ginny) in front of him. At least at that point, Harry's solidarity with Ron & Hermione is firmly in tact. Harry is very melancholy after Sirius' death, so I don't put much in store with him skipping the feast or even lying about it later.
I am a little puzzled by what makes you say that N.E.W.T.'s will distance Ron from Harry even more. What makes you say that?
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Catherine - Aug 24, 2004 1:50 pm (#2109 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Ok, I admit I haven't been reading this thread lately, and I caught up today,
I only just realized that Marcus wrote a fanfic! What the double heck?
I mean, did the earth go flat? Did pigs fly? What happened? I thought Marcus didn't read or write fanfic! **Catherine considers slipping some Veritaserum into Marcus's pumpkin juice to see if it's an impostor in Marcus's body**
Well, that said, I should say that this revealation caused me to read fanfic for the very first time. You did well, Marcus. I enjoyed myself.
Now, about your last post. I don't make the explicit connection between Harry distancing himself from Ron due to N.E.W.T.s. They essentially have the same career goals and class schedule, so I guess I'm being thick.
Also, I don't know that Harry's distancing himself from Ron and Hermione specifically. Harry is traumatized and depressed and feels alienated in general right now. Also, Harry has a history of being less than forthcoming with this friends, so I don't see this as a sudden or new trend.
** Catherine walks slowly away, still bemused that Marcus wrote fanfic **
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 24, 2004 2:30 pm (#2110 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 24, 2004 2:32 pm
Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I tend to do that when I try to write short posts.
The point I was trying to make is that the trio is not as close as they once were and all signs point to further separation. Not that they WILL separate. I don't for one second think their friendship and companionship will end. It will just evolve. Ron and Hermione will become more involved with each other and Harry will seek other sources of companionship.
I think Ron and Harry will have fewer classes together starting this year. I highly doubt Ron will be in NEWT Potions, for instance. Nor do I think it likely that he will be in NEWT Transfiguration either, though he might. Certainly Ron will likely be with Harry in Charms and DADA. It would not surprise me if Harry dropped either Herbology or CoMC, though this is not certain. Ron is sure to be taking both of them
My point is that Harry will no long go everywhere with Ron. He will also have tons of homework that has nothing to do with what Ron is studying.
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Kasse - Aug 24, 2004 3:06 pm (#2111 of 2916)
I understand your point Marcus but why are you so sure that Ron will be in Herbology or CoMC?
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LooneyLuna - Aug 24, 2004 3:12 pm (#2112 of 2916)
We won't know for sure what classes R/H will take because we don't know what careers they picked. But I agree with Prefect Marcus, Harry and Ron probably won't have all the same classes in HBP, but that won't affect their friendship.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 24, 2004 4:14 pm (#2113 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 24, 2004 4:15 pm
Kasse - why are you so sure that Ron will be in Herbology or CoMC?
Other than CoMC and Herbology, if you assume that Ron will drop Potions, Divination, and likely Transfiguration, he is left with only Charms, DADA, and Astronomy. Ron is not the brightest lumos spell around, but I don't see him sliding by his last two years, do you?
There are three reasons for this. One, his mother. Molly would never allow him to do the minimum. Two, Hermione. If he is ever to win her heart he MUST excel at something other than comic relief. Three, his pride.
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 24, 2004 4:20 pm (#2114 of 2916)
The point I was trying to make is that the trio is not as close as they once were and all signs point to further separation-- Prefect Marcus.
I'm not sure if we're getting off topic with this or not. (The discussion has sort of flowed here, though.) I don't see them as not being as close as they once were. As I pointed out above, Harry wasn't keen on including Neville, Ginny, or Luna on the rescue mission, but there was little, if any, question that he fully expected Ron and Hermione to come with him. Now, at the very end, Harry's pretty traumatized and ditches Ron & Hermione when the discussion turns to something he doesn't want to think about. He similarly ditches Hagrid shortly after that. But, throughout the book, I found them close as ever, even in light of the bickering bits.
As for grades, what evidence is there that Ron would be incapable of achieving exactly the same grades as Harry? Movie-Ron is quite a dolt, but book-Ron is never spoken of as incompetent or mediocre when it comes to grades, at least in comparison to Harry. As a matter of fact, the only grade that comes to my mind is the first potion essay which Snape marked to O.W.L. Standard. Harry was "dreadful" but Ron got a good, healthy "P."
I would agree 100% that, at some point, Harry will find himself completely alone, facing Voldemort. But, prior to that, any distance the Ron/Hermione 'ship could cause is easily solved by Harry's eventual 'ship becoming part of the group. The trio thus becomes a foursome. (If given a chance, Hermione and Pansy might become the best of friends. *ahem*)
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Catherine - Aug 24, 2004 4:24 pm (#2115 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Hermione and Pansy might become the best of friends. *ahem*) --Loopy Lupin
Ahem, indeed.
Well...oh, never mind.
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Hermy-own - Aug 24, 2004 4:35 pm (#2116 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
I agree Lupin, especially with that last little paragraph.
Although Harry wasn't keen on including N/G/L on the rescue mission I believe they might well accompany him on similar battles later in the series. And who knows, Harry might start to trust them a little more. I wouldn't dismiss the DoM sextet just yet.
EDIT:
Catherine posted just before me. Lol Catherine! I must have missed that 'ahem' on your post Lupin!
Brings back memories of a certain thread...
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Sir Tornado - Aug 25, 2004 3:55 am (#2117 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Confused with the flurry of activity going around*
Fawkes, good job on that essay.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 25, 2004 10:32 am (#2118 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 25, 2004 10:33 am
Catherine - I thought Marcus didn't read or write fanfic! **Catherine considers slipping some Veritaserum into Marcus's pumpkin juice to see if it's an impostor in Marcus's body**
You'll never catch me that way. I only drink from my own hip-flask. :-)
No, I seldom read Fanfic and write it even less. I do not wish to inflict on others that which is painful for myself. The plot has to be strong, the situations believable, and the characters have to be a perfect echo of the author's originals right down to the last subtle nuance. It should be as indistinguishable from the original author's work as possible. And let's face it, there is only one JKR.
However, I wanted to show how easily Rowling could set a H/P 'ship sailing, so I wrote this little snippet. I was truly surprised how easily it came. It flowed with very little effort. There was not one convoluted twist, tie, or tuck. I think that speaks volumes to the strength of the H/P 'ship.
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Hermy-own - Aug 25, 2004 11:15 am (#2119 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"I wanted to show how easily Rowling could set a H/P 'ship sailing"
And you did so very convincingly, Marcus.
Siriusly, you should consider writing more fanfic...
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Loopy Lupin - Aug 25, 2004 11:21 am (#2120 of 2916)
Maybe it just flowed because you have a calling as a fanfic writer?
It may have also flowed because (putting Pansy aside for a second) you (and quite a few others, myself included) don't believe that the Slytherin's, as a group, can all just be one-dimensionally bad and nasty. All, except for Death Nibblers, have to be frightened or at least concerned that LV is back. There should be no one who (a la Regulus Black) this time around is confused or mislead by LV's true purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if Pansy isn't the only reformation.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 25, 2004 12:46 pm (#2121 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Loopy - I wouldn't be surprised if Pansy isn't the only reformation.
Nor should you be. That seed was planted in the fanfic if you look close enough. But I think Pansy will be the first. She is a leader, after all.
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Padfoot - Aug 25, 2004 1:42 pm (#2122 of 2916)
I too agree that more than one Slytherin will reform. Now that Voldemort is out and about, I think we will see some division in the Slytherin house over loyalties and such. I am all for Pansy reforming. It would be nice to see her with a different attitude.
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dragon keeper - Aug 25, 2004 3:41 pm (#2123 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I am interested in seeing how Rita Skeeter behaves in the next book. It seemed that she and Hermoine teamed up in OotP, but once the year-long ban is over, no more beetle at bay. Does she still work for the Daily Prophet?
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Padfoot - Aug 25, 2004 3:48 pm (#2124 of 2916)
I guess she does, although I am not sure. I wonder if Rita will end up in a relationship? If she did, I wonder who would the wizard would be? Any guesses?
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Catherine - Aug 25, 2004 3:58 pm (#2125 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Oooh, Rita. Who to pair Rita with?
Well, Lockhart comes to mind, but it may be difficult for him to conduct a courtship from a locked ward. Plus, he loves himself more than anyone else, I would think. But he could write love notes with joined-up writing!
Perhaps a May-December romance with Marcus Flint or Oliver Wood. (I'm laughing thinking of the CoS movie Marcus Flint with his scary dentition and "a gift from Draco's father" line).
Lupin is too nice for Rita, but she is an Animagus. She could beetle around if he transformed and no potion was available... Nah. She'd bug him too much.
Maybe Kingsley Shacklebolt could keep her in check. He seems like he is a man who weighs his words carefully. Maybe he could teach her not to run off at the mouth.
Maybe she already has a thing going with her photographer, Bozo.
This was a tough one for me.
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Hermy-own - Aug 25, 2004 4:13 pm (#2126 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"... Nah. She'd bug him too much."
Haha! Brilliant, Catherine!
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dragon keeper - Aug 25, 2004 4:44 pm (#2127 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
"... Nah. She'd bug him too much."
brilliant, indeed!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 25, 2004 8:20 pm (#2128 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Rita 'ship... ok, I think this might be a really significant thing. There have been some rumours on the Net that in the next book(s), Snape is going to have a 'ship of his own. It may or may not be true or significant. But, in OotP, we were shown the power of press first hand. So, if there is a 'Ship between Severus and Rita, wouldn't the Order having a prime Daily Prophet reporter on their side be advantagious to them? Also, there could be a subplot(s) whence Rita would publish an article badmouthing Harry (at Snape's request of course). That would make Harry even more miserable; which is what JKR seems to like, doesn't she?
Also, you have to agree here, Snape and Skeeter do look mean together, don't they?
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Leila 2X4B - Aug 25, 2004 9:11 pm (#2129 of 2916)
I'd be smegged off. I'd be mad as hell, man. If some git in a white coat designed me to croak just so that he could sell his new android with go-faster stripes.
One word for that ship, Tornedo. YUCK!!!!!
Leila
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Kasse - Aug 26, 2004 5:55 am (#2130 of 2916)
I agree Leila _ I am not if favour of a Rita/Snape ship for that matter I am not in favour of a Rita/Kingsley ship either and yes Lupin is too nce for her.
She needs somone as equally as annoying as she is.......It is such a shame that Lockheart is not available.
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Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 6:06 am (#2131 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Well, Kasse, we still have two books to go, so maybe someone will emerge as the perfectly awful match for Rita!
Pity that Lockhart's on the closed ward...
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LooneyLuna - Aug 26, 2004 6:40 am (#2132 of 2916)
Snape and Skeeter - Eeeewww! Don't bats eat bugs? Maybe Skeeter and Dung? Sounds better. I cannot imagine Snape with anyone, he might actually have to open up and be pleasant and of course, wash his hair.
Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 6:45 am (#2133 of 2916)[/b]
Canon Seeker
Ah, so Rita is a "Dung"-beetle.
I like that pairing!
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LooneyLuna - Aug 26, 2004 6:49 am (#2134 of 2916)
D'oh! Catherine Allen - I didn't even make that connection.
10 points for you!
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 26, 2004 8:31 am (#2135 of 2916)
Nah... Skeeter would figure out everything about 'Dung's shady deals, report him to the MoM, and have him arrested.
On second thought... would that be such a bad thing?
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Chris. - Aug 26, 2004 9:12 am (#2136 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Paulus, yes, yes, yes! Dung is such a great characters, shady but great.
I don't think Rita'll have a 'ship unless there's someone in HbP or book seven who really deserves her. Hmmm... VOLDIE!
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Padfoot - Aug 26, 2004 11:46 am (#2137 of 2916)
Rita would never go out with Dung, she would look down on him. I have a hard time picturing Snape even being in the same room as Rita. I would never pair Lupin with her as I like Lupin too much. Kingsley might have the patience to deal with Rita. Lockheart would have been great.
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 12:40 pm (#2138 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Catherine--Ah, so Rita is a "Dung"-beetle.
Where do you come up with this stuff!!!
I think some people are destined to be lonely and miserable (Karma maybe) and Rita and Snape might be two of those people. Sad but true...
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 12:51 pm (#2139 of 2916)
Well if Rita does end up with someone they would have a hard time cheating on her. So Mr Right for Rita would have to be really faithful or really sneaky.
Has anyone noticed that not to many of the adults in the series are married. The only living couples that I can think of are the Weaslys and the Malfoys. Didn't think I'd ever compare the two. None of the Faculty or the Order members (Besides the Weaslys) are married. I think that that points to a possible life of bachelorhood for Harry.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 12:58 pm (#2140 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Has anyone noticed that not to many of the adults in the series are married.
Actually, HelloCello600, Rowling states that some of the Hogwarts staff are married. We will learn more later.
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Kasse - Aug 26, 2004 1:07 pm (#2141 of 2916)
Do you think that some of the Hogwarts staff are married.......to each other?
Maybe Prof Bines was once Madamme Pomfrey's husband?
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 1:18 pm (#2142 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Kasse - Do you think that some of the Hogwarts staff are married.......to each other?
I don't see why not. In fact, it makes sense. Harry hasn't seen any non-teacher adults at Hogwarts before this that have been identified as spouses.
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Star Crossed - Aug 26, 2004 1:20 pm (#2143 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Kasse - Do you think that some of the Hogwarts staff are married.......to each other?
Still saying that Snape and Sinistra are together, if not married.
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Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 1:23 pm (#2144 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Still saying that Snape and Sinistra are together, if not married. --Star Crossed
Ssshh! Don't tell Gina that!
EDIT: Where do you come up with this stuff!!! --Dragon Slayer
Oh, I've been hanging out with Timrew and Loopy Lupin lately. They've been such an inspiration!
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timrew - Aug 26, 2004 5:03 pm (#2145 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
'Dung' beetle! I like it, Catherine!
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Catherine - Aug 26, 2004 5:13 pm (#2146 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Tim, my mentor, wrote, 'Dung' beetle! I like it, Catherine!
***blushes***
I'm learning, Tim. I'm taking lessons from the best...
**hails the King of SPEW**
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 6:54 pm (#2147 of 2916)
Thanks for setting me straight Marcus. That's interesting that some of the teachers are married and we haven't met there spouses yet. I had a friend from Britain whose father was a headmaster at a boarding school and I belive the whole family lived there. Anyone here go to a boarding school? Are the familys of staff visible or do they live off campus? I guess that some teachers might go home in the evening, but alot of stories envolve faculty out in the halls at night. Even at a regular school, you usually hear about a teacher's family pretty early on (If they have any). I would predict that only teachers that play minor roles have spouses. For instance, If Prof. McGonagall had a husband, he would probably be helping the Order.
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Star Crossed - Aug 26, 2004 6:56 pm (#2148 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I have a funny feeling Mickey G was married at one point, but he died in the war against Voldemort.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 7:05 pm (#2149 of 2916)
I had a similar thought too right after I posted. There is no real evidence for that but it makes sense. It is likely that she married and fanily members of Order member would have been in danger.He could have also died during the Grindelwald conflict right? Prof McGonagall is about seventy and that was.... well I don't feel like looking up dates but I have a feeling that they would be too young.
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Czarina II - Aug 26, 2004 9:06 pm (#2150 of 2916)
"It is likely that she married and fanily members of Order member would have been in danger.He could have also died during the Grindelwald conflict right? Prof McGonagall is about seventy and that was.... well I don't feel like looking up dates but I have a feeling that they would be too young."-- hellocello600
Well, Minerva could have had a boyfriend around that time (she'd have been about Tonks' age) who was killed, and then she never met anyone else. Ah, the hopeless romantic in me wins out again!
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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The One - Aug 27, 2004 11:35 am (#2151 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Some time ago there was a discussion about whether an H/Hr or R/Hr relationship would disrupt the trio. The consensus seemed to be that because of Ron’s crush on Hermione an H/Hr relationship would be disastrous, while an R/Hr relation would change the dynamics of the trio but not destroy it.
I want to pose the question: Is it so certain that Ron’s crush on Hermione is so strongly felt as we are led to believe? The ultimate proof of Ron’s crush is of course his very pronounced jealousy during and after the Yule Ball regarding the Viktor/Hermione relationship. This clue to Ron’s feelings are seldom questioned.
Seldom does not mean never, and I will now question exactly that clue. Before the Yule Ball there are some interesting incidents:
There is a major fight between Harry and Ron that is caused by the effects it has on Ron’s self-esteem that he is the “sidekick of the famous Harry Potter”, that is Ron’s jealousy over always being overshadowed by Harry.
There is a case where Ron’s resents the fact that the girls are far more interested in Harry than in Ron, but Ron controls that resentment.
Ron’s tries to invite the hottest girl available, the female Triwizard champion, to the ball, resulting in a very humiliating retreat.
Ron is unable to get a girl for the ball, while Harry must fight to keep the girls away until he has managed to muster the courage to ask the girl he wants. When he recovers from that disappointment of Cho being taken he gets a both a girl for himself and a girl for Ron in an instant.
Before this happens Ron has been totally convinced that Hermione has as big troubles as himself in the dating field, rejecting in an instant as a bluff the information that Hermione already has a date. He also assumes, without asking, that Ginny has not got a date.
I guess you see where I am going: is Ron’s denial of Hermione having a date a result not of him wanting Hermione as a date for himself, but a result of him needing Hermione to be no better of than himself? Is his reaction a result of that in this, his first experience with dating, he is overshadowed by both his friends?
When he realizes that Hermione has a date he is surprised and curios, but he is not angry. When he discovers that it is Viktor, he looses it completely. Ron himself made an attempt on Fleur, suffering humiliation as a result, and here Hermione is with one of the hottest dates available to the girls, an international sport star! And Ron has wanted to get to know Viktor for ages, but Hermione has done it!
Hermione has beaten Ron at the dating game, a defeat in that game as crushing at could possibly get. Just as he is recovering from the blow he got to his self-esteem by being overshadowed by Harry, he starts to feel inferior to his best female friend.
As you see, there is no doubt that Ron is jealous; the question is why he is so.
Note that his reaction to Harry being appointed Threewizard champion and Hermione dating Viktor for the Yule Ball is very similar; in both cases he accuses the person in question of betrayal.
Also note that he is willing to believe that Hermione ha used Love Potions, perhaps he needs to believe that she cannot be more successful in love than he is without cheating.
And when he is beaten in the dating game not only by Hermione, but also by his younger sister his reaction is also the same: He chooses to believe that neither boy is worth having, Viktor is only using Hermione to get Harry, and Michael is an idiot.
To sum up:
Ron’s reaction to Harry being appointed a champion and his reaction to Hermione dating Viktor are very similar. Are they caused by the same reason?
Ron’s reactions to Viktor and Ron’s reactions to Ginny dating Michael are also very similar. Are they also caused by the same reason?
JKR has made a considerable effort to make the Yule Ball experience as humiliating as possible for poor Ron. Why do this if the sole purpose was to show Ron’s crush on Hermione?
That is my questions. Enjoy!
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 11:49 am (#2152 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I think if you look at this one incident (the yule ball/dates) in isolation it would seem that Ron doesn't necessarily have a crush on Hermoine, but when you put all of the clues from all five books together, there is more support of the R/Hr 'ship. For example in OotP, Ron gets upset when he finds out that Hermoine is still in contact with with Viktor, why would he care if he was only upset that Hermoine had gotten a date before him? Wouldn't he be over it by now?
Overall I think there are many similarities between Ron and Hermoine's 'ship and Mr. and Mrs. Weasly's 'ship. Whenever there is an argument, Ron is always laid back like Arthur and Hermoine always gets uptight like Molly. Hermy is always trying to mother Harry, like Molly, and Ron is always saying to let him do his own thing, like Arthur. I can easily picture these two married in the future.
A couple of side notes; I don't think it would destroy the dynamic of the trio because I don't think that Harry is interested in Hermoine in that way, so if R & Hr did get together, Harry would probably think "finally!" And I think that Harry and Ginny will get together because it reminds me of James and Lily, (Lily not realizing at first that she liked James) It might take a couple of years, but that's what I think will happen. (Sorry to get off of the Ron/Hermoine subject)
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 11:51 am (#2153 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Before we go there, "The One", I have difficulty with your initial premise. You stated that, "The ultimate proof of Ron’s crush is of course his very pronounced jealousy during and after the Yule Ball regarding the Viktor/Hermione relationship."
I do not consider this in any way, shape, or form to be the 'ultimate' proof of Ron's feelings for Hermione. If it were, I would not be a R/H 'shipper. The 'ultimate' proof, in my opinion, is the consistent nature of the R/H interaction. All other */H relationships save K/H are at best platonic or even down-right indifferent.
Ron, on the other hand, is extremely possessive of Hermione. He reacts strongly to even the barest hint of a possible rival. The Yule ball incidences are only a small portion of the much larger pattern.
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The One - Aug 27, 2004 12:08 pm (#2154 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Before we go there, "The One", I have difficulty with your initial premise. You stated that, "The ultimate proof of Ron’s crush is of course his very pronounced jealousy during and after the Yule Ball regarding the Viktor/Hermione relationship."
Well, that is the proof usually accepted by R/Hr shippers and non-shippers alike. The interpretation of those other clues are more debated. That was the reason I wanted to write about the interpretation of Yule Ball.
For example in OotP, Ron gets upset when he finds out that Hermoine is still in contact with with Viktor, why would he care if he was only upset that Hermoine had gotten a date before him? Wouldn't he be over it by now?
I must admitt that that is one of the weaker points of the theory. :-( Perhaps the meer thought of Viktor makes him remember the defeat? :-)
He reacts strongly to even the barest hint of a possible rival.
You mean Viktor in GoF and OotP, and Harry in Ootp? Is there any others? He reacts strongly to anyone insulting Hermione, but that is slightly different.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 12:09 pm (#2155 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
R/* or H/* will change the trio dynamic. It has to.
Harry/Ron has been the core relationship in the trio through most of the series. Even Harry mentions this when Ron is giving him the silent treatment in GoF. Ron is his best friend, and Harry is Ron's best friend.
"Two is company. Three is a crowd." Whomever Harry and Ron pair up with, the trio dynamic has to change.
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The One - Aug 27, 2004 12:12 pm (#2156 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
R/* or H/* will change the trio dynamic. It has to.
Of course it will. But "change" is not the same as "destroy".
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 12:53 pm (#2157 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 27, 2004 12:53 pm
No, R/* will not destroy the dynamic, but H/H just might. I consider the point to be moot, however. R/H has too much energy and H/H is too platonic for Rowling to go there.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 27, 2004 4:09 pm (#2158 of 2916)
Was just reading on Snape's thread (cannot remember who posted it, please forgive me), and they had suggested that Snape might have had a thing for Bellatrix when they were at Hogwarts. Her spurning him later on could have been a reason for him turning against the DEs.
Could he still have a thing for her? Bella's husband seems like a dud, maybe Snape and Bella can have a little tryst in HBP.
Comments?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 27, 2004 4:15 pm (#2159 of 2916)
Well... Snape loathed Sirius... and he might have a thing for the one responsible for Sirius' death...
On second thought, Snape loathed James just as much but didn't like Voldemort any better for having killed James...
On third thought, maybe Snape loathed Sirius more because Sirius almost had Snape killed, whereas James prevented him from getting killed...
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hellocello3200 - Aug 27, 2004 5:33 pm (#2160 of 2916)
Even if Snape is attracted to Bella, I have a hard time seeing her go for him. She seems very superior and Snape has never been described as a great catch. Personally, I've recently become a Snape liked Lily supporter.
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Cuivienen - Aug 27, 2004 8:51 pm (#2161 of 2916)
Adding one more point to The One's arguemnt about Ron's reaction to K/Hr:
Ron reacts no differently when presented with the fact that Ginny is dating Michael Corner in OotP. Just like with Hermione in GoF, Ron blows up at Ginny and absolutely refuses to accept the fact that his little sister has gotten a date before him. Might not this apply to his reaction to K/Hr, then, too? While we see more of Ron's reaction to Krum than we see his reaction to Michael Corner, this is more because Ron and Hermione spend a lot more time together than Ron and Ginny, and, more importantly, Harry spends much more time with Ron and Hermione than he does with Ron and Ginny. Since we see everything in third-person limited omniscient, we only know what Harry knows. While Ron may like Hermione as more than a friend, I do not think there is as much tension or as much potential there as R/Hr 'shippers claim.
Just for the record, I'm no-ship.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 27, 2004 8:59 pm (#2162 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Some time ago there was a discussion about whether an H/Hr or R/Hr relationship would disrupt the trio. -- The One
The One, did you have to bring the H/Hr v R/Hr subject so soon? We were going on so well discussing the Dung'-beetle
But then, I have to agree with you there. Also, I agree only because the author is JKR. Had it been any other author, I'd have said you were off your rocker. I mean, JKR has done things like this in the past hasn't she. Had us looking one way and then jumped from behind and shouted "boo". Remember Quirrel/Snape? Karkaroff/Crouch? Sirius/Pettigrew in book 3? She doesn't exactly point us to the right direction from the begining does she?
And Marcus, give me one reason why R/Hr wouldn't wreck the trio and H/Hr will.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 9:46 pm (#2163 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Tornedo,
I did not say 'will'. I said 'might'.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 28, 2004 1:08 am (#2164 of 2916)
give me one reason why R/Hr wouldn't wreck the trio and H/Hr will
One reason is that if both Harry and Ron like Hermione, Harry is viewed the most as the more accepting of the two. There's also the fact that despite his feelings, Harry has stopped himself from acting with any ill-will towards Cedric while Ron has more openly expressed his displeasure with Vicky.
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 28, 2004 6:00 am (#2165 of 2916)
I'm re-reading GoF and just got done reading the second task. I'm wondering about the whole Fleur kissing the boys thing.
OK, she kisses Harry twice on each cheek and the kisses Ron on the cheek. After she kisses Ron, it says that Hermione was simply furious, meaning, at that time Harry noticed she was furious.
First of all, she could have been furious about Fleur kissing both boys,(her boys) but Harry not noticing until after Ron's kiss. What makes me think that? Well, Viktor has been very focused on Hermione in this scene. He's trying to make a move. The fact that she was his "most missed" person shows a lot here, and he's trying to move to the next level.
We know after this, Viktor asks Harry about his relationship with Hermione. Now here's what I'm wondering. If Hermione only reacted "furiously" to Fleur kissing Ron and not also to Fleur kissing Harry, then wouldn't Viktor have noticed? Wouldn't that have got him worrying about and being jealous of Ron and not Harry?
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Hermy-own - Aug 28, 2004 10:08 am (#2166 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yes, veeery interesting, coolbeans. The only problem is that we don't know for sure whether Krum was looking at Hermione when Fleur kissed Harry. In fact, we can't even say he definitely saw Hermione's reaction to any of the kisses. Or can we? I'll have to read that scene again.
Does anyone remember when Rita's article (the one in which Pansy describes Harry/Hermione's "love affair") was released? Was it not this that got Krum worried about Hermione/Harry?
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The One - Aug 28, 2004 12:07 pm (#2167 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
coolbeans
That is a good point!
Hermy-own
You are right, we do not know whether Viktor saw Hermiones reaction or not. He seems to be standing close to the Trio, as he comments on a beetle in Hermiones hair while Hermione speaks to Harry.
Given the circumstances it is very reasonable to assume that Viktor would watch Hermione very closely, but we do not know, he might have been so frustrated that he preferred to look away. No such things are mentioned in the book though, whenever the narrator notices Viktor he is focused on Hermione, trying to get her attention.
Does anyone remember when Rita's article (the one in which Pansy describes Harry/Hermione's "love affair") was released? Was it not this that got Krum worried about Hermione/Harry?
The first one, mentioning Hermione as Harry's girl friend, was published after the champions were appointed but before the first task, in chapter 19.
The article describing the Harry/Hermione/Viktor love triangle was published just after the second task, in chapter 27.
We do not know whether Viktor read the articles, the only thing we know is that he never mentions them to Harry. Harry assumes that Viktor has read them and says something to that effect, but that comment is ignored by Viktor.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 28, 2004 12:10 pm (#2168 of 2916)
Hmm... It makes me wonder... did Viktor get Ron alone and talk to him about Hermione as well?
And... would Viktor have given Ron an autograph if he thought Ron fancied Hermione as well?
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Eponine - Aug 28, 2004 12:16 pm (#2169 of 2916)
Personally, I don't think it ever crossed Viktor's mind that Ron could be a rival for Hermione's affections.
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The One - Aug 28, 2004 12:30 pm (#2170 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Hmm... It makes me wonder... did Viktor get Ron alone and talk to him about Hermione as well?
No such conversation is mentioned. I wonder what answer he would have got? :-)
Among H/Hr's it is usual to assume that he did not, partly because from a storytelling point of view it is strange that it is never mentioned if id did happen, and partly because if Viktor saw suspicious behavior towards both boys he would either realize that it is natural behavior from a girl with two very close male friends or start to doubt her virtues.
It seems a little strange to pick up a girl friend and start interrogating all her male friends.
But of course, none of these arguments are foolproof, so we may choose to believe what we want, but we do not really know.
As for the autograph, it seemed to me that he perceived Ron as a little hostile, and therefore was pleased by the question. If this is correct, it indicates that Viktor had at least picked up something about the R/Hr tension at that point.
I have not quit decided whether my answer to the second question contradicts parts of the answer to the first one. It just might....
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haymoni - Aug 28, 2004 5:48 pm (#2171 of 2916)
Ron was "mulish" if not hostile.
"Vare is Herm-own-ninny?" said a voice.
Krum had just arrived at their table clutching two butterbeers.
"No idea," said Ron mulishly, looking up at him. "Lost her, have you?"
Krum was looking surly again.
"Vell, if you see her, tell her I haff drinks," he said, and he slouched off.
Not exactly an example of international magical cooperation.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 28, 2004 6:20 pm (#2172 of 2916)
I don't think Krum ever considered Ron as a rival. You have the famous Krum, the famous Potter and a nobody Weasley. Krum and Potter are both TriWizard School Champions and excellent Seekers. If Krum is somewhat shallow, he might think Hermione only likes famous guys. Or what attracted Krum to Hermione was the fact that Krum thought Harry and Hermione were an item. Ron probably was never even on Krum's radar.
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haymoni - Aug 28, 2004 10:26 pm (#2173 of 2916)
I still think Krum remembered seeing Hermione in the Top Box.
He goes off to this school where he knows no one and there is this girl that he saw earlier.
He may have mistakenly thought that Hermione was really into Quidditch, since she was at the World Cup and all.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 29, 2004 1:09 am (#2174 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Victor mentioned that Hermione mentioned Harry a lot. I think it was because she purposely didn't mention Ron. What girl in her right mind mentions the guy she likes to the guy she's dating?! I would assume that it would appear odd to Victor to hear Harry mentioned but almost never hear any mention of her other male friend, which Victor probably knows she has by seeing them walking around campus, and he might assume, therefore, that Hermione really likes Harry. However, I'd think, from a psychological point of view, that it would be far more likely that she would be avoiding any mention of Ron because it would be somewhat awkward for her when speaking to Victor, who obviously has romantic feelings for her, and thus she feels more comfortable mentioning Harry. Hence, Victor ended up seeing Harry as the rival and not Ron.
Just my two knuts....
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 1:28 am (#2175 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
"Det hjertet er fullt av renn munnen over med"
Norwegian proverb: "What your heart is full of spills out of your mouth."
Anyway, S. E. Jones: What you writes would explain why she does not speak of Ron, but it does not explain why she speaks of Harry all the time. There are other things to speak of, like the life as a muggle, school, bulgarian history etc..
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Upulwan - Aug 29, 2004 5:20 am (#2176 of 2916)
Exactly!
A girl in her right mind would also know not to make excessive reference to ANY guy while spending time with the guy she's dating. If Hermione had the presence of mind, or maybe instinct, not to mention Ron (supposedly the guy she likes), she would also have had the sense not to mention Harry too much.
Like you say, there's sooooo much more to have talked about...
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Hermy-own - Aug 29, 2004 6:09 am (#2177 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Like you say, there's sooooo much more to have talked about..."
You make it sound as though Harry was the only thing they talked about. I doubt he was ever the topic of conversation. What's more likely (IMO) is that Harry's name was merely mentioned in reference to the topic of discussion. They could have been talking about Quidditch or the Tri-Wizard Tourny and, in each case, it's easy to see why Hermione might choose to mention Harry's name.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 29, 2004 7:20 am (#2178 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 29, 2004 7:21 am
I have always imagined that Krum notices Hermione for the exact same reason that Fritzwilliam Darcy notices Elizabeth Bennet in Pride and Prejudice. Krum has girls fawning over him all the time. He goes to the library as often as possible to study, and his groupies follow him even there. He sees that there is one girl who is there almost as much as he is (we can't assume perfectly matching schedules), but she either ignores him or leaves shortly after he arrives.
You think that that is not going to get his attention? Guess again.
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ShelterGirl - Aug 29, 2004 7:31 am (#2179 of 2916)
Marcus-
Krum as Mr Darcy? You know, aside from the fact that Krum doesn't appear to be a snob, I couldn't agree more.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 29, 2004 8:41 am (#2180 of 2916)
I think Marcus is right. In general, guys don't go for girls who throw themselves at them. I think Hermione's disdain for silly fan-girl behavior and the fact that she isn't really into Quidditch is probably why Krum likes her in the first place. He probably doesn't want to talk about what a great seeker he is all the time. Harry is the same way. Excessive hero worship (Colin Creevy) gets on his nerves.
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Remus J. Lupin - Aug 29, 2004 10:28 am (#2181 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Aug 29, 2004 10:41 am
to everyone out there, i just want to say: ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, i'll say it again, ron loves hermione!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you
->Remus, please try to proper capitalization in your posts as we have members who do not use English as their primary language or who are very young. Thank you.<- SE Jones
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S.E. Jones - Aug 29, 2004 10:45 am (#2182 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Perhaps I wasn't too clear in my last post, but I think the reason she mentioned Harry so much was because she was purposely avoiding any mention of Ron, thus, she inadvertantly made too much mention of Harry and none of Ron.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 11:38 am (#2183 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think the reason she mentioned Harry so much was because she was purposely avoiding any mention of Ron, thus, she inadvertantly made too much mention of Harry and none of Ron.
Of course, that is a possibility. But this girl has devoted a incredible large part of her energy and attention to Harry. When he is far down and do not want to meet his fellow students she knows and is there with a stack of toast; when he is tired she asks Ron to check on him, when he is denied information she goes spare by worry, when he hides in the sleeping room after the attack on Mr. Weasley she aborts her skiing trip to help him, etc. etc.
I fail to see that if she talks about him then the most obvious explanation is that she does this in order to avoid speaking about Ron.
And you still do not explain why talk about Harry, instead of anything else.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 29, 2004 12:47 pm (#2184 of 2916)
And you still do not explain why talk about Harry, instead of anything else.
Viktor didn't say Hermione talked about nothing else but Harry. He said that Hermione talked about Harry very often. Considering Viktor and Harry are both Quidditch players and Champions, Harry is a safe subject.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 12:58 pm (#2185 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Apparently not.... :-)
And as Upulwan points out, if she realized that Ron was a sensitive subject, she should have realized that Harry might be to, especially after the second task.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 29, 2004 3:03 pm (#2186 of 2916)
Let it snow!
...if she realized that Ron was a sensitive subject, she should have realized that Harry might be to, especially after the second task.
Why would he (Harry) be?
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total hatred - Aug 29, 2004 3:11 pm (#2187 of 2916)
My views on whether R/Hr and H/Hr ship will break the trio is it is capable of breaking it. If R/Hr will prevail, there will be moments of bad relations between Harry and the two but both parties will make up. Harry is mature enough to accept the truth and have the sensibility to make up with the lovebirds.
If H/Hr will prevail, disater will likely occur. Ron with emotional range of a teaspoon(Personally I think that he has far more less than that) will be vindictive. I can never fathom what he will gonna do. Maybe he will become evil and go to the dark side.
Personally I think Hermione will choose Harry. Ron had made her cry couple of times and Harry is sensitive to her own feelings. I never understand why some people think Ron is a sensitive guy. He is too abrasive and only thinks of himself. He never considers the feeling of others and in most times dense as a metal bar. In short all talk no substance.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 3:15 pm (#2188 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Why would he (Harry) be?
Because
1. excessive interest in any boy other than your date is a bad idea and
2. she must have realized that Viktor was not pleased that Hermione was to busy cheering Harry to really pay any attention to his declaration of love. She would have guessed that Viktor might not be to keen to speak about Harry.
If she had the sense not to speak about Ron, she would also have had the sense to watch Viktor's reactions when she spoke about Harry and realize that Harry was not that great a subject.
But if she only spoke about Harry and not Ron because Harry is the one most important to her, it may not have occurred to her to look for any negative reaction from Viktor, and thus she would not have noticed.
My personal take on this is that prior to the Viktor/Hermione relationship Hermione was very found of Harry, but she never considered him as a potential boy friend, just as Harry has not considered Hermione as a possible girl friend. But her experience with Viktor Krum, where her supposedly friendly love for Harry was a problem in her relationship with another very nice boy she was attracted to, taught her something about her own feelings for Harry.
Since then she has been aware of her feelings, but tried to suppress them as she has not seen signs that the feelings are returned, and she is afraid to ruin their friendship.
We are now just waiting for Harry to make the same discovery that Hermione did.
But of course, this is not possible to prove by canon evidence, it is just my personal interpretation.
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total hatred - Aug 29, 2004 3:33 pm (#2189 of 2916)
I agree. The only reason why H/Hr ship is not currently sailing is Harry and Hermione is not aware of their feelings to each other. This might what JKR is saying "platonic friendship". H/Hr shippers let us unite to sink the Titanic.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 3:36 pm (#2190 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
H/Hr shippers let us unite to sink the Titanic.
Why should we bother to do that? In due course JKR will do it for us... :-)
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Cuivienen - Aug 29, 2004 4:21 pm (#2191 of 2916)
Why would he (Harry) be?
Hermione realized immediately that Harry mentioning herself to Cho was a bad idea in OotP, yet, assuming she has no romantic feelings for him and he none for her, this is no different than Hermione herself mentioning Harry to Krum. Indeed, mentioning Harry often would be more noticeable since Harry is famous (and thus, perhaps, more of a rival) and Hermione is not. Furthermore, Hermione realized that Harry mentioning herself to Cho was a bad idea even though Cho attends Hogwarts and so would know that they are friends. Certainly mentioning Harry to a person who does not attend Hogwarts would have an even more adverse effect.
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 29, 2004 4:24 pm (#2192 of 2916)
Why would he (Harry) be?
Because Rita Skeeter had announced to the whole world in her article that H/H were an item.
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Cuivienen - Aug 29, 2004 4:25 pm (#2193 of 2916)
The H/Hr/V article came out after the Second Task. Sorry, coolbeans.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 4:28 pm (#2194 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The H/Hr/V article came out after the Second Task. Sorry, coolbeans.
Yes, but not the H/Hr article. Whether Viktor ever read that one we never get to know, but Hermione would have to assume that he might know what was written.
Good point coolbeans!
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Cuivienen - Aug 29, 2004 5:02 pm (#2195 of 2916)
Oh, right, I'd forgotten about the "stunningly pretty Gryffindor" article. My mistake.
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True Love - Aug 29, 2004 6:37 pm (#2196 of 2916)
Of course she is going to talk about Harry. If she is talking about any of her experiences, adventures, or things that happen in class, she will end up talking about him as so many things have happened in her and Harry's life. It would be like talking about all the adventures you had with your best friend (which Harry is to her) or brother (Harry is like a brother to her).
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Muggle Doctor - Aug 29, 2004 7:45 pm (#2197 of 2916)
I would think Hermione talking to Viktor about Harry is probably the safest thing on Earth. Given the effect Voldemort had on the wizarding world in Britain, it is naive to think that the 'ripples' of his actions in the First Wizard War would not have been felt, or at least noticed, elsewhere. Similarly his fall (and the manner thereof) would also be well known (and Harry is STILL the only person known to survive the Killing Curse), even if he may not be as famous as he is within Britain's magical community. Nobody outside Britain would take more interest in somebody surviving AK than the Durmstrang students, given that Karkaroff was their headmaster and that they take more than an academic interest in Dark Arts.
For all we know, Viktor and Hermione could have spent long hours discussing the First Voldemort War (in which Karkaroff, being a DE, was a participant, and may have related his experiences to his students), the events of the past few years, and how they might relate to a potential future conflict. By the time Hermione and Viktor became acquainted (at whatever level), Harry had already confronted Voldemort (in one form or other) twice - there would be a great deal to talk about, and Harry's name would feature in most of it...
I started out as an H/Hr supporter, but it is my interpretation of all the clues laid since that R/Hr is far more likely. Issues related to Cedric aside, Harry's relationship with Cho proves to me that he wouldn't know what to do with a girl if she fell naked into his lap (not that Ron has much more idea). On the other hand, you can't deny that the deepest emotions Harry has for any girl are those he has for Hermione. I could see them marrying way, way down the track when both have maturity - but to submit them to an evanescent teenage fling would be tragedy.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 29, 2004 8:36 pm (#2198 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I always agree with the Doctors.
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Czarina II - Aug 29, 2004 11:04 pm (#2199 of 2916)
Someone pointed out that while Hermione recognized that Harry talking about her while on a date with Cho was a bad idea, she failed to realise that talking about Harry to Viktor would also be such.
Some simple conclusions to resolve this conundrum:
1. These incidents were a year apart, with the former taking place after the latter. Hermione learned her lesson last year and is trying to share that lesson with Harry.
2. Hermione worries about, criticises, and tries to comfort Harry. It is only natural that she notices his mistakes and shortcomings while being oblivious to her own. It's human nature.
Ergo, this is a bit of a moot discussion. We know very little of the interactions between Hermione and Viktor. They probably discussed a lot of subjects besides Harry, but Viktor picked up on Hermione's frequent mentions of him. While I'm sure Viktor is not supposed to be an evil character (though we still don't know), he certainly comes across as somewhat possessive. When he first saw Hermione in the top box, assuming that he did, Harry was there too. Finally, English is not Viktor's first language and I doubt Hermione knows much Bulgarian, so while they might have had quite interesting discussions about Charms, Viktor might not have followed the conversation very well. However, he knows the name "Harry Potter" and hears Hermione say it frequently. Naturally, he could draw the wrong conclusion from that.
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Upulwan - Aug 30, 2004 2:03 am (#2200 of 2916)
"I always agree with the doctors"- Tornedo.
Me too.
I was waltzing past some Ginny/Harry arguments yesterday, and I know that triangle/disruption/jealousy theories have been hashed and re-hashed many a times, but has anyone considered that given Hermione and Ginny both seem to like Harry, there might be cat-fights in the girls' dorms?
Sorry if I'm dragging up old and lost cases, but I wasn't going to give myself a headache by reading all of the more-than-2000 posts on this thread!
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Open minded sceptic
Some time ago there was a discussion about whether an H/Hr or R/Hr relationship would disrupt the trio. The consensus seemed to be that because of Ron’s crush on Hermione an H/Hr relationship would be disastrous, while an R/Hr relation would change the dynamics of the trio but not destroy it.
I want to pose the question: Is it so certain that Ron’s crush on Hermione is so strongly felt as we are led to believe? The ultimate proof of Ron’s crush is of course his very pronounced jealousy during and after the Yule Ball regarding the Viktor/Hermione relationship. This clue to Ron’s feelings are seldom questioned.
Seldom does not mean never, and I will now question exactly that clue. Before the Yule Ball there are some interesting incidents:
There is a major fight between Harry and Ron that is caused by the effects it has on Ron’s self-esteem that he is the “sidekick of the famous Harry Potter”, that is Ron’s jealousy over always being overshadowed by Harry.
There is a case where Ron’s resents the fact that the girls are far more interested in Harry than in Ron, but Ron controls that resentment.
Ron’s tries to invite the hottest girl available, the female Triwizard champion, to the ball, resulting in a very humiliating retreat.
Ron is unable to get a girl for the ball, while Harry must fight to keep the girls away until he has managed to muster the courage to ask the girl he wants. When he recovers from that disappointment of Cho being taken he gets a both a girl for himself and a girl for Ron in an instant.
Before this happens Ron has been totally convinced that Hermione has as big troubles as himself in the dating field, rejecting in an instant as a bluff the information that Hermione already has a date. He also assumes, without asking, that Ginny has not got a date.
I guess you see where I am going: is Ron’s denial of Hermione having a date a result not of him wanting Hermione as a date for himself, but a result of him needing Hermione to be no better of than himself? Is his reaction a result of that in this, his first experience with dating, he is overshadowed by both his friends?
When he realizes that Hermione has a date he is surprised and curios, but he is not angry. When he discovers that it is Viktor, he looses it completely. Ron himself made an attempt on Fleur, suffering humiliation as a result, and here Hermione is with one of the hottest dates available to the girls, an international sport star! And Ron has wanted to get to know Viktor for ages, but Hermione has done it!
Hermione has beaten Ron at the dating game, a defeat in that game as crushing at could possibly get. Just as he is recovering from the blow he got to his self-esteem by being overshadowed by Harry, he starts to feel inferior to his best female friend.
As you see, there is no doubt that Ron is jealous; the question is why he is so.
Note that his reaction to Harry being appointed Threewizard champion and Hermione dating Viktor for the Yule Ball is very similar; in both cases he accuses the person in question of betrayal.
Also note that he is willing to believe that Hermione ha used Love Potions, perhaps he needs to believe that she cannot be more successful in love than he is without cheating.
And when he is beaten in the dating game not only by Hermione, but also by his younger sister his reaction is also the same: He chooses to believe that neither boy is worth having, Viktor is only using Hermione to get Harry, and Michael is an idiot.
To sum up:
Ron’s reaction to Harry being appointed a champion and his reaction to Hermione dating Viktor are very similar. Are they caused by the same reason?
Ron’s reactions to Viktor and Ron’s reactions to Ginny dating Michael are also very similar. Are they also caused by the same reason?
JKR has made a considerable effort to make the Yule Ball experience as humiliating as possible for poor Ron. Why do this if the sole purpose was to show Ron’s crush on Hermione?
That is my questions. Enjoy!
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 11:49 am (#2152 of 2916)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I think if you look at this one incident (the yule ball/dates) in isolation it would seem that Ron doesn't necessarily have a crush on Hermoine, but when you put all of the clues from all five books together, there is more support of the R/Hr 'ship. For example in OotP, Ron gets upset when he finds out that Hermoine is still in contact with with Viktor, why would he care if he was only upset that Hermoine had gotten a date before him? Wouldn't he be over it by now?
Overall I think there are many similarities between Ron and Hermoine's 'ship and Mr. and Mrs. Weasly's 'ship. Whenever there is an argument, Ron is always laid back like Arthur and Hermoine always gets uptight like Molly. Hermy is always trying to mother Harry, like Molly, and Ron is always saying to let him do his own thing, like Arthur. I can easily picture these two married in the future.
A couple of side notes; I don't think it would destroy the dynamic of the trio because I don't think that Harry is interested in Hermoine in that way, so if R & Hr did get together, Harry would probably think "finally!" And I think that Harry and Ginny will get together because it reminds me of James and Lily, (Lily not realizing at first that she liked James) It might take a couple of years, but that's what I think will happen. (Sorry to get off of the Ron/Hermoine subject)
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 11:51 am (#2153 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Before we go there, "The One", I have difficulty with your initial premise. You stated that, "The ultimate proof of Ron’s crush is of course his very pronounced jealousy during and after the Yule Ball regarding the Viktor/Hermione relationship."
I do not consider this in any way, shape, or form to be the 'ultimate' proof of Ron's feelings for Hermione. If it were, I would not be a R/H 'shipper. The 'ultimate' proof, in my opinion, is the consistent nature of the R/H interaction. All other */H relationships save K/H are at best platonic or even down-right indifferent.
Ron, on the other hand, is extremely possessive of Hermione. He reacts strongly to even the barest hint of a possible rival. The Yule ball incidences are only a small portion of the much larger pattern.
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The One - Aug 27, 2004 12:08 pm (#2154 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Before we go there, "The One", I have difficulty with your initial premise. You stated that, "The ultimate proof of Ron’s crush is of course his very pronounced jealousy during and after the Yule Ball regarding the Viktor/Hermione relationship."
Well, that is the proof usually accepted by R/Hr shippers and non-shippers alike. The interpretation of those other clues are more debated. That was the reason I wanted to write about the interpretation of Yule Ball.
For example in OotP, Ron gets upset when he finds out that Hermoine is still in contact with with Viktor, why would he care if he was only upset that Hermoine had gotten a date before him? Wouldn't he be over it by now?
I must admitt that that is one of the weaker points of the theory. :-( Perhaps the meer thought of Viktor makes him remember the defeat? :-)
He reacts strongly to even the barest hint of a possible rival.
You mean Viktor in GoF and OotP, and Harry in Ootp? Is there any others? He reacts strongly to anyone insulting Hermione, but that is slightly different.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 12:09 pm (#2155 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
R/* or H/* will change the trio dynamic. It has to.
Harry/Ron has been the core relationship in the trio through most of the series. Even Harry mentions this when Ron is giving him the silent treatment in GoF. Ron is his best friend, and Harry is Ron's best friend.
"Two is company. Three is a crowd." Whomever Harry and Ron pair up with, the trio dynamic has to change.
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The One - Aug 27, 2004 12:12 pm (#2156 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
R/* or H/* will change the trio dynamic. It has to.
Of course it will. But "change" is not the same as "destroy".
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 12:53 pm (#2157 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 27, 2004 12:53 pm
No, R/* will not destroy the dynamic, but H/H just might. I consider the point to be moot, however. R/H has too much energy and H/H is too platonic for Rowling to go there.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 27, 2004 4:09 pm (#2158 of 2916)
Was just reading on Snape's thread (cannot remember who posted it, please forgive me), and they had suggested that Snape might have had a thing for Bellatrix when they were at Hogwarts. Her spurning him later on could have been a reason for him turning against the DEs.
Could he still have a thing for her? Bella's husband seems like a dud, maybe Snape and Bella can have a little tryst in HBP.
Comments?
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 27, 2004 4:15 pm (#2159 of 2916)
Well... Snape loathed Sirius... and he might have a thing for the one responsible for Sirius' death...
On second thought, Snape loathed James just as much but didn't like Voldemort any better for having killed James...
On third thought, maybe Snape loathed Sirius more because Sirius almost had Snape killed, whereas James prevented him from getting killed...
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hellocello3200 - Aug 27, 2004 5:33 pm (#2160 of 2916)
Even if Snape is attracted to Bella, I have a hard time seeing her go for him. She seems very superior and Snape has never been described as a great catch. Personally, I've recently become a Snape liked Lily supporter.
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Cuivienen - Aug 27, 2004 8:51 pm (#2161 of 2916)
Adding one more point to The One's arguemnt about Ron's reaction to K/Hr:
Ron reacts no differently when presented with the fact that Ginny is dating Michael Corner in OotP. Just like with Hermione in GoF, Ron blows up at Ginny and absolutely refuses to accept the fact that his little sister has gotten a date before him. Might not this apply to his reaction to K/Hr, then, too? While we see more of Ron's reaction to Krum than we see his reaction to Michael Corner, this is more because Ron and Hermione spend a lot more time together than Ron and Ginny, and, more importantly, Harry spends much more time with Ron and Hermione than he does with Ron and Ginny. Since we see everything in third-person limited omniscient, we only know what Harry knows. While Ron may like Hermione as more than a friend, I do not think there is as much tension or as much potential there as R/Hr 'shippers claim.
Just for the record, I'm no-ship.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 27, 2004 8:59 pm (#2162 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Some time ago there was a discussion about whether an H/Hr or R/Hr relationship would disrupt the trio. -- The One
The One, did you have to bring the H/Hr v R/Hr subject so soon? We were going on so well discussing the Dung'-beetle
But then, I have to agree with you there. Also, I agree only because the author is JKR. Had it been any other author, I'd have said you were off your rocker. I mean, JKR has done things like this in the past hasn't she. Had us looking one way and then jumped from behind and shouted "boo". Remember Quirrel/Snape? Karkaroff/Crouch? Sirius/Pettigrew in book 3? She doesn't exactly point us to the right direction from the begining does she?
And Marcus, give me one reason why R/Hr wouldn't wreck the trio and H/Hr will.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 9:46 pm (#2163 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Tornedo,
I did not say 'will'. I said 'might'.
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Gemini Wolfie - Aug 28, 2004 1:08 am (#2164 of 2916)
give me one reason why R/Hr wouldn't wreck the trio and H/Hr will
One reason is that if both Harry and Ron like Hermione, Harry is viewed the most as the more accepting of the two. There's also the fact that despite his feelings, Harry has stopped himself from acting with any ill-will towards Cedric while Ron has more openly expressed his displeasure with Vicky.
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 28, 2004 6:00 am (#2165 of 2916)
I'm re-reading GoF and just got done reading the second task. I'm wondering about the whole Fleur kissing the boys thing.
OK, she kisses Harry twice on each cheek and the kisses Ron on the cheek. After she kisses Ron, it says that Hermione was simply furious, meaning, at that time Harry noticed she was furious.
First of all, she could have been furious about Fleur kissing both boys,(her boys) but Harry not noticing until after Ron's kiss. What makes me think that? Well, Viktor has been very focused on Hermione in this scene. He's trying to make a move. The fact that she was his "most missed" person shows a lot here, and he's trying to move to the next level.
We know after this, Viktor asks Harry about his relationship with Hermione. Now here's what I'm wondering. If Hermione only reacted "furiously" to Fleur kissing Ron and not also to Fleur kissing Harry, then wouldn't Viktor have noticed? Wouldn't that have got him worrying about and being jealous of Ron and not Harry?
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Hermy-own - Aug 28, 2004 10:08 am (#2166 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yes, veeery interesting, coolbeans. The only problem is that we don't know for sure whether Krum was looking at Hermione when Fleur kissed Harry. In fact, we can't even say he definitely saw Hermione's reaction to any of the kisses. Or can we? I'll have to read that scene again.
Does anyone remember when Rita's article (the one in which Pansy describes Harry/Hermione's "love affair") was released? Was it not this that got Krum worried about Hermione/Harry?
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The One - Aug 28, 2004 12:07 pm (#2167 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
coolbeans
That is a good point!
Hermy-own
You are right, we do not know whether Viktor saw Hermiones reaction or not. He seems to be standing close to the Trio, as he comments on a beetle in Hermiones hair while Hermione speaks to Harry.
Given the circumstances it is very reasonable to assume that Viktor would watch Hermione very closely, but we do not know, he might have been so frustrated that he preferred to look away. No such things are mentioned in the book though, whenever the narrator notices Viktor he is focused on Hermione, trying to get her attention.
Does anyone remember when Rita's article (the one in which Pansy describes Harry/Hermione's "love affair") was released? Was it not this that got Krum worried about Hermione/Harry?
The first one, mentioning Hermione as Harry's girl friend, was published after the champions were appointed but before the first task, in chapter 19.
The article describing the Harry/Hermione/Viktor love triangle was published just after the second task, in chapter 27.
We do not know whether Viktor read the articles, the only thing we know is that he never mentions them to Harry. Harry assumes that Viktor has read them and says something to that effect, but that comment is ignored by Viktor.
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Paulus Maximus - Aug 28, 2004 12:10 pm (#2168 of 2916)
Hmm... It makes me wonder... did Viktor get Ron alone and talk to him about Hermione as well?
And... would Viktor have given Ron an autograph if he thought Ron fancied Hermione as well?
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Eponine - Aug 28, 2004 12:16 pm (#2169 of 2916)
Personally, I don't think it ever crossed Viktor's mind that Ron could be a rival for Hermione's affections.
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The One - Aug 28, 2004 12:30 pm (#2170 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Hmm... It makes me wonder... did Viktor get Ron alone and talk to him about Hermione as well?
No such conversation is mentioned. I wonder what answer he would have got? :-)
Among H/Hr's it is usual to assume that he did not, partly because from a storytelling point of view it is strange that it is never mentioned if id did happen, and partly because if Viktor saw suspicious behavior towards both boys he would either realize that it is natural behavior from a girl with two very close male friends or start to doubt her virtues.
It seems a little strange to pick up a girl friend and start interrogating all her male friends.
But of course, none of these arguments are foolproof, so we may choose to believe what we want, but we do not really know.
As for the autograph, it seemed to me that he perceived Ron as a little hostile, and therefore was pleased by the question. If this is correct, it indicates that Viktor had at least picked up something about the R/Hr tension at that point.
I have not quit decided whether my answer to the second question contradicts parts of the answer to the first one. It just might....
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haymoni - Aug 28, 2004 5:48 pm (#2171 of 2916)
Ron was "mulish" if not hostile.
"Vare is Herm-own-ninny?" said a voice.
Krum had just arrived at their table clutching two butterbeers.
"No idea," said Ron mulishly, looking up at him. "Lost her, have you?"
Krum was looking surly again.
"Vell, if you see her, tell her I haff drinks," he said, and he slouched off.
Not exactly an example of international magical cooperation.
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LooneyLuna - Aug 28, 2004 6:20 pm (#2172 of 2916)
I don't think Krum ever considered Ron as a rival. You have the famous Krum, the famous Potter and a nobody Weasley. Krum and Potter are both TriWizard School Champions and excellent Seekers. If Krum is somewhat shallow, he might think Hermione only likes famous guys. Or what attracted Krum to Hermione was the fact that Krum thought Harry and Hermione were an item. Ron probably was never even on Krum's radar.
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haymoni - Aug 28, 2004 10:26 pm (#2173 of 2916)
I still think Krum remembered seeing Hermione in the Top Box.
He goes off to this school where he knows no one and there is this girl that he saw earlier.
He may have mistakenly thought that Hermione was really into Quidditch, since she was at the World Cup and all.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 29, 2004 1:09 am (#2174 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Victor mentioned that Hermione mentioned Harry a lot. I think it was because she purposely didn't mention Ron. What girl in her right mind mentions the guy she likes to the guy she's dating?! I would assume that it would appear odd to Victor to hear Harry mentioned but almost never hear any mention of her other male friend, which Victor probably knows she has by seeing them walking around campus, and he might assume, therefore, that Hermione really likes Harry. However, I'd think, from a psychological point of view, that it would be far more likely that she would be avoiding any mention of Ron because it would be somewhat awkward for her when speaking to Victor, who obviously has romantic feelings for her, and thus she feels more comfortable mentioning Harry. Hence, Victor ended up seeing Harry as the rival and not Ron.
Just my two knuts....
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 1:28 am (#2175 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
"Det hjertet er fullt av renn munnen over med"
Norwegian proverb: "What your heart is full of spills out of your mouth."
Anyway, S. E. Jones: What you writes would explain why she does not speak of Ron, but it does not explain why she speaks of Harry all the time. There are other things to speak of, like the life as a muggle, school, bulgarian history etc..
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Upulwan - Aug 29, 2004 5:20 am (#2176 of 2916)
Exactly!
A girl in her right mind would also know not to make excessive reference to ANY guy while spending time with the guy she's dating. If Hermione had the presence of mind, or maybe instinct, not to mention Ron (supposedly the guy she likes), she would also have had the sense not to mention Harry too much.
Like you say, there's sooooo much more to have talked about...
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Hermy-own - Aug 29, 2004 6:09 am (#2177 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"Like you say, there's sooooo much more to have talked about..."
You make it sound as though Harry was the only thing they talked about. I doubt he was ever the topic of conversation. What's more likely (IMO) is that Harry's name was merely mentioned in reference to the topic of discussion. They could have been talking about Quidditch or the Tri-Wizard Tourny and, in each case, it's easy to see why Hermione might choose to mention Harry's name.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 29, 2004 7:20 am (#2178 of 2916)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Aug 29, 2004 7:21 am
I have always imagined that Krum notices Hermione for the exact same reason that Fritzwilliam Darcy notices Elizabeth Bennet in Pride and Prejudice. Krum has girls fawning over him all the time. He goes to the library as often as possible to study, and his groupies follow him even there. He sees that there is one girl who is there almost as much as he is (we can't assume perfectly matching schedules), but she either ignores him or leaves shortly after he arrives.
You think that that is not going to get his attention? Guess again.
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ShelterGirl - Aug 29, 2004 7:31 am (#2179 of 2916)
Marcus-
Krum as Mr Darcy? You know, aside from the fact that Krum doesn't appear to be a snob, I couldn't agree more.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 29, 2004 8:41 am (#2180 of 2916)
I think Marcus is right. In general, guys don't go for girls who throw themselves at them. I think Hermione's disdain for silly fan-girl behavior and the fact that she isn't really into Quidditch is probably why Krum likes her in the first place. He probably doesn't want to talk about what a great seeker he is all the time. Harry is the same way. Excessive hero worship (Colin Creevy) gets on his nerves.
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Remus J. Lupin - Aug 29, 2004 10:28 am (#2181 of 2916)
Edited by S.E. Jones Aug 29, 2004 10:41 am
to everyone out there, i just want to say: ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, ron loves hermione, i'll say it again, ron loves hermione!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thank you
->Remus, please try to proper capitalization in your posts as we have members who do not use English as their primary language or who are very young. Thank you.<- SE Jones
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S.E. Jones - Aug 29, 2004 10:45 am (#2182 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Perhaps I wasn't too clear in my last post, but I think the reason she mentioned Harry so much was because she was purposely avoiding any mention of Ron, thus, she inadvertantly made too much mention of Harry and none of Ron.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 11:38 am (#2183 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I think the reason she mentioned Harry so much was because she was purposely avoiding any mention of Ron, thus, she inadvertantly made too much mention of Harry and none of Ron.
Of course, that is a possibility. But this girl has devoted a incredible large part of her energy and attention to Harry. When he is far down and do not want to meet his fellow students she knows and is there with a stack of toast; when he is tired she asks Ron to check on him, when he is denied information she goes spare by worry, when he hides in the sleeping room after the attack on Mr. Weasley she aborts her skiing trip to help him, etc. etc.
I fail to see that if she talks about him then the most obvious explanation is that she does this in order to avoid speaking about Ron.
And you still do not explain why talk about Harry, instead of anything else.
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Weeny Owl - Aug 29, 2004 12:47 pm (#2184 of 2916)
And you still do not explain why talk about Harry, instead of anything else.
Viktor didn't say Hermione talked about nothing else but Harry. He said that Hermione talked about Harry very often. Considering Viktor and Harry are both Quidditch players and Champions, Harry is a safe subject.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 12:58 pm (#2185 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Apparently not.... :-)
And as Upulwan points out, if she realized that Ron was a sensitive subject, she should have realized that Harry might be to, especially after the second task.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 29, 2004 3:03 pm (#2186 of 2916)
Let it snow!
...if she realized that Ron was a sensitive subject, she should have realized that Harry might be to, especially after the second task.
Why would he (Harry) be?
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total hatred - Aug 29, 2004 3:11 pm (#2187 of 2916)
My views on whether R/Hr and H/Hr ship will break the trio is it is capable of breaking it. If R/Hr will prevail, there will be moments of bad relations between Harry and the two but both parties will make up. Harry is mature enough to accept the truth and have the sensibility to make up with the lovebirds.
If H/Hr will prevail, disater will likely occur. Ron with emotional range of a teaspoon(Personally I think that he has far more less than that) will be vindictive. I can never fathom what he will gonna do. Maybe he will become evil and go to the dark side.
Personally I think Hermione will choose Harry. Ron had made her cry couple of times and Harry is sensitive to her own feelings. I never understand why some people think Ron is a sensitive guy. He is too abrasive and only thinks of himself. He never considers the feeling of others and in most times dense as a metal bar. In short all talk no substance.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 3:15 pm (#2188 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Why would he (Harry) be?
Because
1. excessive interest in any boy other than your date is a bad idea and
2. she must have realized that Viktor was not pleased that Hermione was to busy cheering Harry to really pay any attention to his declaration of love. She would have guessed that Viktor might not be to keen to speak about Harry.
If she had the sense not to speak about Ron, she would also have had the sense to watch Viktor's reactions when she spoke about Harry and realize that Harry was not that great a subject.
But if she only spoke about Harry and not Ron because Harry is the one most important to her, it may not have occurred to her to look for any negative reaction from Viktor, and thus she would not have noticed.
My personal take on this is that prior to the Viktor/Hermione relationship Hermione was very found of Harry, but she never considered him as a potential boy friend, just as Harry has not considered Hermione as a possible girl friend. But her experience with Viktor Krum, where her supposedly friendly love for Harry was a problem in her relationship with another very nice boy she was attracted to, taught her something about her own feelings for Harry.
Since then she has been aware of her feelings, but tried to suppress them as she has not seen signs that the feelings are returned, and she is afraid to ruin their friendship.
We are now just waiting for Harry to make the same discovery that Hermione did.
But of course, this is not possible to prove by canon evidence, it is just my personal interpretation.
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total hatred - Aug 29, 2004 3:33 pm (#2189 of 2916)
I agree. The only reason why H/Hr ship is not currently sailing is Harry and Hermione is not aware of their feelings to each other. This might what JKR is saying "platonic friendship". H/Hr shippers let us unite to sink the Titanic.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 3:36 pm (#2190 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
H/Hr shippers let us unite to sink the Titanic.
Why should we bother to do that? In due course JKR will do it for us... :-)
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Cuivienen - Aug 29, 2004 4:21 pm (#2191 of 2916)
Why would he (Harry) be?
Hermione realized immediately that Harry mentioning herself to Cho was a bad idea in OotP, yet, assuming she has no romantic feelings for him and he none for her, this is no different than Hermione herself mentioning Harry to Krum. Indeed, mentioning Harry often would be more noticeable since Harry is famous (and thus, perhaps, more of a rival) and Hermione is not. Furthermore, Hermione realized that Harry mentioning herself to Cho was a bad idea even though Cho attends Hogwarts and so would know that they are friends. Certainly mentioning Harry to a person who does not attend Hogwarts would have an even more adverse effect.
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 29, 2004 4:24 pm (#2192 of 2916)
Why would he (Harry) be?
Because Rita Skeeter had announced to the whole world in her article that H/H were an item.
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Cuivienen - Aug 29, 2004 4:25 pm (#2193 of 2916)
The H/Hr/V article came out after the Second Task. Sorry, coolbeans.
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The One - Aug 29, 2004 4:28 pm (#2194 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The H/Hr/V article came out after the Second Task. Sorry, coolbeans.
Yes, but not the H/Hr article. Whether Viktor ever read that one we never get to know, but Hermione would have to assume that he might know what was written.
Good point coolbeans!
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Cuivienen - Aug 29, 2004 5:02 pm (#2195 of 2916)
Oh, right, I'd forgotten about the "stunningly pretty Gryffindor" article. My mistake.
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True Love - Aug 29, 2004 6:37 pm (#2196 of 2916)
Of course she is going to talk about Harry. If she is talking about any of her experiences, adventures, or things that happen in class, she will end up talking about him as so many things have happened in her and Harry's life. It would be like talking about all the adventures you had with your best friend (which Harry is to her) or brother (Harry is like a brother to her).
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Muggle Doctor - Aug 29, 2004 7:45 pm (#2197 of 2916)
I would think Hermione talking to Viktor about Harry is probably the safest thing on Earth. Given the effect Voldemort had on the wizarding world in Britain, it is naive to think that the 'ripples' of his actions in the First Wizard War would not have been felt, or at least noticed, elsewhere. Similarly his fall (and the manner thereof) would also be well known (and Harry is STILL the only person known to survive the Killing Curse), even if he may not be as famous as he is within Britain's magical community. Nobody outside Britain would take more interest in somebody surviving AK than the Durmstrang students, given that Karkaroff was their headmaster and that they take more than an academic interest in Dark Arts.
For all we know, Viktor and Hermione could have spent long hours discussing the First Voldemort War (in which Karkaroff, being a DE, was a participant, and may have related his experiences to his students), the events of the past few years, and how they might relate to a potential future conflict. By the time Hermione and Viktor became acquainted (at whatever level), Harry had already confronted Voldemort (in one form or other) twice - there would be a great deal to talk about, and Harry's name would feature in most of it...
I started out as an H/Hr supporter, but it is my interpretation of all the clues laid since that R/Hr is far more likely. Issues related to Cedric aside, Harry's relationship with Cho proves to me that he wouldn't know what to do with a girl if she fell naked into his lap (not that Ron has much more idea). On the other hand, you can't deny that the deepest emotions Harry has for any girl are those he has for Hermione. I could see them marrying way, way down the track when both have maturity - but to submit them to an evanescent teenage fling would be tragedy.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 29, 2004 8:36 pm (#2198 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I always agree with the Doctors.
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Czarina II - Aug 29, 2004 11:04 pm (#2199 of 2916)
Someone pointed out that while Hermione recognized that Harry talking about her while on a date with Cho was a bad idea, she failed to realise that talking about Harry to Viktor would also be such.
Some simple conclusions to resolve this conundrum:
1. These incidents were a year apart, with the former taking place after the latter. Hermione learned her lesson last year and is trying to share that lesson with Harry.
2. Hermione worries about, criticises, and tries to comfort Harry. It is only natural that she notices his mistakes and shortcomings while being oblivious to her own. It's human nature.
Ergo, this is a bit of a moot discussion. We know very little of the interactions between Hermione and Viktor. They probably discussed a lot of subjects besides Harry, but Viktor picked up on Hermione's frequent mentions of him. While I'm sure Viktor is not supposed to be an evil character (though we still don't know), he certainly comes across as somewhat possessive. When he first saw Hermione in the top box, assuming that he did, Harry was there too. Finally, English is not Viktor's first language and I doubt Hermione knows much Bulgarian, so while they might have had quite interesting discussions about Charms, Viktor might not have followed the conversation very well. However, he knows the name "Harry Potter" and hears Hermione say it frequently. Naturally, he could draw the wrong conclusion from that.
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Upulwan - Aug 30, 2004 2:03 am (#2200 of 2916)
"I always agree with the doctors"- Tornedo.
Me too.
I was waltzing past some Ginny/Harry arguments yesterday, and I know that triangle/disruption/jealousy theories have been hashed and re-hashed many a times, but has anyone considered that given Hermione and Ginny both seem to like Harry, there might be cat-fights in the girls' dorms?
Sorry if I'm dragging up old and lost cases, but I wasn't going to give myself a headache by reading all of the more-than-2000 posts on this thread!
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Ship-Ship (Exploring Relationships) (Post 2201 to 2250)
Elanor Sun May 15, 2011 2:44 am
Time Traveler - Aug 30, 2004 2:52 am (#2201 of 2916)
Oh, about a hundred posts since I had visited here a couple of days ago. I really like the staffs' partnership. I'm interested in especially DD and Minerva..:-) and Snape or Sirius or Remus. And I have a practical curiosity about the relationship of dear Mr. and Mrs. Dursley. I don't know why Vernon has accepted and cared about Petunia so much, even if she had such a "abnormal" sister... Just divorce or something is absolutely abnormal for him, too? (half joking.)
However, I really love this discussion The One brought out. I had questioned the main reason of Ron's jealous reaction, so I will skip that part.
Rather, I was thinking about this. I saw many people, IMO more than half of all readers, think/see R/Hr ship is confirmative... However, I also see many people, IMO more than half again, are not very sure of where Hermione's mind is toward.
Then, and you know all about JKR's style, I'm wondering why she made Hermione's (maybe other Trio's also) heart so ambiguous. Let me see. If Hermione's crush on Ron (or vice versa) would turn out loud, that would not be a big deal, would that? Then, what's the point of ambiguousness of all those ships if JKR has had R/Hr ship so conclusively in her mind?
I wonder my point is clearly stated. I'm feeling that I had more things to say, but I can't remember.;-( So, bye for this post.
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Time Traveler - Aug 30, 2004 3:07 am (#2202 of 2916)
Oh, sorry, I just remembered one thing!!
About the-jealousy-will-destroy-the-Trio scenario, though I don't think it's inescapable, I doubt that R/Hr ship will cause less jealousy than H/Hr ship. I'm not talking about the intensity of their feelings.
I just suspect that (if Ron has a strong feeling to Hermione) Ron would be jealous for H/Hr relationship even if he is going out with Hermione. I'm not blaming Ron's character. The matter is just H/Hr ship itself. They are so close that anyone, even Ron can be suspicious about them..
Don't you think so? ;-)
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Hermy-own - Aug 30, 2004 3:11 am (#2203 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Welcome back, Time Traveler!
"Then, what's the point of ambiguousness of all those ships if JKR has had R/Hr ship so conclusively in her mind?"
Few possible solutions for this conundrum:
1) The ambivalence we see may just be coincidence. The clues found by observant H/Hr 'shippers may have been unintentional on Rowling's part.
2) JKR is known to throw a red-herring once in a while. In this case, to keep us guessing right until the moment R/Hr have their first kiss ;-)
3) JKR never intended for the R/Hr 'ship to sail. The titanic itself is the red-herring; H/Hr is the good 'ship.
Does that make sense, Time Traveller? Anyone else? Anything I might have missed?
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 30, 2004 4:36 am (#2204 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
4) JK loves the theories we invent.. she likes to keep us going
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Hermy-own - Aug 30, 2004 5:03 am (#2205 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Well said FF! BTW, well done with that essay some time ago. It was an excellent read.
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Time Traveler - Aug 30, 2004 5:57 am (#2206 of 2916)
Thanks for the welcoming, hermy-own! Just a quick thinking about 2) JKR is known to throw a red-herring once in a while. In this case, to keep us guessing right until the moment R/Hr have their first kiss ;-)
I thought about this before.. Well, her red-herrings about this matter don't seem to have worked much.. I think there are much more R/Hr shippers (or ship believers, who just believe that is obvioius rather than it should be fulfilled..) than H/Hr shippers in general. :-)
Edit) In conclusion, I doubt the functoin of scenes as red-herrings.
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 30, 2004 6:29 am (#2207 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Hermy-own (Thanks also Tornedo). It was an answer to a post that got a bit out of hand...
Time Traveller... I thought I recognised the name! Welcome back
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Casey - Aug 30, 2004 8:17 am (#2208 of 2916)
I've been all for Hermione and Ron from the very beginning, until I started thinking about it this weekend. I went to see POA again, and I kept looking for "the clue" that gave JKR chills. (I'm still leaning more toward it being something about Sirius. Not that he'll come back from the dead, but something...anyway...off topic). If the clue really is Lupin discussing Lily, and if he really WAS in love with Lily when they were in school, what if the Hermione/Ron/Harry thing becomes a parallel to the relationship Lupin had with James and Lily? Who would be Lupin in the situation? Harry or Ron?
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Weeny Owl - Aug 30, 2004 10:30 am (#2209 of 2916)
Then, what's the point of ambiguousness of all those ships if JKR has had R/Hr ship so conclusively in her mind?
The point is that they meet when they're not even teenagers, so that by the end of the series we've basically seen a group of kids growing up, and that regardless of the amazing world they live in, they're still ordinary kids in a lot of ways.
If there's a parallel between (in alphabetical order) Lily/Lupin/James and Harry/Hermione/Ron, it could go either way.
James and Harry are blood relatives, have money, look alike, and seem to have a lot of the same personality traits, but at the same time, Lupin was, in many ways, the odd man out while at school because of the werewolf thing just as Harry is the odd man out at school because of the Voldemort thing, plus they're both half-bloods. Ron and James are basically normal wizards and they're both pure-bloods, plus Ron has a sense of adventure that James had. I don't see how parallels can be adequately made, really.
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Casey - Aug 30, 2004 10:57 am (#2210 of 2916)
I just meant a parallel in the sense that ONE of the guys, does not get the girl. Adequate parallels toward their personalities I didn't even think about.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 30, 2004 11:08 am (#2211 of 2916)
I think that comparing Lupin/lily/James and Harry/Hermione/Ron is an interesting idea, but since we don't know conclusively if Lupin liked Lily or how Harry/Ron/Hermonie will play out it is hard to say anything for sure. I have to addmit that the scane on the bridge in the PoA movie caused some giggles from my groups section of the theater but that could be expliained by excessive coke consumption.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 30, 2004 2:57 pm (#2212 of 2916)
Let it snow!
The Lily/Lupin relationship was, until we are told otherwise, a pure movie moment. Please move discussion of it to one of the movie threads. Now if you feel there is canon evidence for this outside the movies or if you had similar suspicions long before the movie came out and would like to present your ideas as such, that might be different....
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Chris. - Aug 30, 2004 3:02 pm (#2213 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I, for one, do not think that there was any relationship between Lupin or Lily, or even an attraction between the two.
Probably Lily thought of Lupin as the quieter, nicer one, but I do not think anything happened.
Harry/Ron/Hermione is a tricky one, seeing as each member depends on another. But I think R/Hr would be easier, seeing as Harry does not fancy Hermione.
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True Love - Aug 30, 2004 5:33 pm (#2214 of 2916)
You know what they say, a girl with a future avoids a man with a past. Hermione should stick to Ron. Harry seems to have more of a past life in his 15 or 16 years than most folks would have in a life time.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 30, 2004 7:59 pm (#2215 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You know what they say, a girl with a future avoids a man with a past. Hermione should stick to Ron. Harry seems to have more of a past life in his 15 or 16 years than most folks would have in a life time. -- True Love
True Love... I don't think Hermione exactly cares about Harry's past any more. They've been friends for 5 years now. (Rather they were friends for 5 years in OotP)
Now, as far as the discussion about the comparisons between MLPP and Trio goes... here's (post#849) my views on that. It was, incidently my first post on this forum.
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Casey - Aug 31, 2004 6:41 am (#2216 of 2916)
The Lily/Lupin relationship was, until we are told otherwise, a pure movie moment. Please move discussion of it to one of the movie threads. Now if you feel there is canon evidence for this outside the movies or if you had similar suspicions long before the movie came out and would like to present your ideas as such, that might be different....
I posted it HERE because it was about relationships. Also, there's been so much talk all over this board that Lupin was giving us the "clue" in POA, I didn't think it would matter. That's not what the bulk of my post was about anyway, and I didn't know it would cause such a problem.
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Chris. - Aug 31, 2004 10:15 am (#2217 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Casey, I think S.E. Jones said that because she didn't want us to mix up canon and the movies, much like with the Ron/Hermione moments in PA.
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Remus J. Lupin - Aug 31, 2004 11:06 am (#2218 of 2916)
Slytherin Prefect, I read that you think Harry+Pansy. How about not! It should be Draco+Pansy. For whoever said Hermy+Draco, that made me think....I don't know if I should post this in this thread, but....What if Snape secretly liked Lily when they were in school and that's another reason why he hated James so much? It's similar to Draco+Hermy theory. What if that's why Draco hates Ron so much? Because they're in love with the same woman?! Think about it....it could happen. Just a thought.
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Hermy-own - Aug 31, 2004 11:41 am (#2219 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Remus, I suggest you take a look at this thread by Prefect Marcus. The theory appears to support itself so don't be surprised if you have second thoughts on Harry/Pansy. Just a warning...
Yes, Snape/Lily has been mentioned on this thread, here's a link. I am pretty sure there have been other references.
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The One - Aug 31, 2004 1:23 pm (#2220 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
A few days ago I posted a post question whether Ron really has a crush on Hermione, and if he has, whether it is so deep-felt as it may seem.
In this post I will assume that the crush does exist (as I realize it very well may do), and ask: so what? I have only considered the boys here, Hermione’s feelings will of course be important for the final outcome, but they are not needed to analyze the boys’ feelings.
Ron and Harry met Hermione, entered a close friendship with her, and then they grew into the age there the opposite sex starts getting interesting. Their close female friend has played very different roles in the two boys voyage towards manhood.
Harry views Hermione as one of the boys and as the hormones kicks in, he does not consider Hermione at all. Instead he develops a crush on this beautiful sporting babe he hardly knows. As expected for a young mans first crush, the relationship with the sporting babe leads nowhere. This pattern is quite plausible for a young boy.
Ron takes another route. He is crushing on the closest girl available that is not his sister. That is also quite normal. But is there really any reason to believe that his crush is any more mature than Harry’s? Just as for any other young man, the prospects for his first crush would be assumed to be slim.
It is true that Ron knows Hermione better than Harry knows Cho, but the fact is that Ron does not really know what he wants from a girlfriend. He just crushes on the only girl he knows well that is not a giggling Trelawney supporter or in some other way very un-Ron. (Hermione is in many way un-Ron too, but he have got used to her)
As Ron matures and expands his horizon he may very well discover that the girl he really desires is not Hermione at all, just as when Harry matures he may one day discover that the girl of his dream was just in front of him all the time. (And no, I am not thinking of Ginny…)
This does of course not in any way prove that things will happen as I have imagined them. My only point is that for 15-year old kids their history so far does not really guarantee that failing to get Hermione (or even see Harry and Hermione get together) must be a disaster for Ron, neither does it preclude Harry from falling in love with Hermione at some point in the future.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 31, 2004 2:01 pm (#2221 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Ron takes another route. He is crushing on the closest girl available that is not his sister. That is also quite normal. But is there really any reason to believe that his crush is any more mature than Harry’s? Just as for any other young man, the prospects for his first crush would be assumed to be slim.
An interesting, and somewhat revealing, thought. However, I disagree. That isn't how I see Ron's "crush" at all. Ron's first crush was on Fleur, so he took the same route that Harry did - he looked for the "beautiful... babe he hardly knows", and it didn't turn out well for Ron either as she didn't even give him the time of day until he helped "save" her sister from the lake. I see his feelings for Hermione as being much deeper than a crush as I don't think he initially wanted them to be there. I think he was very surprised and disturbed by these sudden feelings for his buddy Hermione in GoF (hence much of the anger we see during the Yule Ball), and by the realization that admitting to such feelings could end their long-standing friendship (as is often the case with friends who become, or want to become, more than friends). Why would he suddenly see Hermione differently? Well, she was being treated as a romantic object by another and that could easily make Ron see her in a romantic light or realize he didn't like her being with someone else (notice he seems fine with her going to the ball with Neville or Harry who he probably doesn't see as being able to get her attention in a romantic way). You may note that he becomes quite obsessive about finding out who she was going to the ball with, asking her every so often hoping to catch her off guard. He even diverts his attention from a snowball fight (not a smart idea, especially when playing with siblings, who will be more ruthless than others) to ask her. Dean notes that Ron and Harry got "the best looking girls in the year" and yet Ron's first question upon entering the Common Room is "Where's Hermione?". Also, notice that it's Ron who notices her smile is different after she has her teeth shrunk back to normal; Harry doesn't notice until it's pointed out. Harry and Parvati wonder who the pretty girl in the blue robes is at the Yule Ball and do a double-take when they see it's Hermione, as does just about everyone who walks past, except Ron (he walks right past). Does that mean he didn't see her or didn't recognize her? I get the feeling that he recognized her right off, hence his purposely not looking at her and Victor.
I could keep going, but I won't.....
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 31, 2004 5:18 pm (#2222 of 2916)
I don't think Ron had a real crush on Fleur. I think it was just the veela fumes she was giving off.
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Upulwan - Aug 31, 2004 5:46 pm (#2223 of 2916)
The One and S.E Jones, you both make good points, and I'm having difficulty deciding where my loyalties lie
Everything else aside, I hesitate when it comes to R/Hr, simply because their relationship or the whiff of it, has remained just that, a whiff. It's not depicted in the books to have developed at all, except if you count the escalation in bickering. So S. E Jones, I don't know how you could say that R/Hr goes deeper than it seems (or something to the effect, I'm paraphrasing).
Whereas when it comes to H/Hr, although there are no romantic signs as such, their relationship has grown by leaps and bounds. Sure you still could chalk it off to them being the greatest of friends, but compared to them, R/Hr has just been festering, stagnant except for some deliberate 'hint hint nudge nudge's, for hundreds of pages within which it could have shown some actual growth, if JKR intended. Now I don't claim to be able to read JKR's mind, but when a novelist does that you can't help but sit up and take notice of what is not obvious.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 31, 2004 6:21 pm (#2224 of 2916)
Let it snow!
You say I'm seeing the R/Hr 'ship as being deeper than what is written. I say you see the H/Hr 'ship as being deeper than what is written. Again, we are at the stalemate of this being a matter of each individual reader's interpretation of the material....
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hellocello3200 - Aug 31, 2004 6:24 pm (#2225 of 2916)
I agree with the One that first crushes rarely work out in real life, but this isn't a actual account of the lives of adolescents. It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen. Rarely on books do young adults go through the number of "crushes" real preteens and teens do. I think that in the case of relationships in the Harry Potter books, it is best to look for the most obvious outcomes rather than over-analyzing.
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Czarina II - Aug 31, 2004 7:42 pm (#2226 of 2916)
Well put, the One, SE Jones, and hellocello.
I have to say that the relationship between Ron and Hermione has grown, but Harry hasn't noticed because it has not been a significant change for him to do so -- he has more important things to worry about at the present. Yet Ron and Hermione do seem to be at a bit of a stalemate as well. People should interpret that as "it's going nowhere", not "it will never go anywhere". Their relationship might take a giant leap forward if one of them makes a move and the other responds. If neither of them do so, their relationship would eventually fizzle. It would probably take a long time, though.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 31, 2004 8:35 pm (#2227 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen. -- Hellocell600
In works of fiction... but definately not in Harry Potter.
I think that in the case of relationships in the Harry Potter books, it is best to look for the most obvious outcomes rather than over-analyzing. -- Hellocell600
I disagree completely. To predict something, you have to analyze it completely. And, speaking of that, you can only Analyze, not "Over-analyze". It is just a word we tend to use when we feel that someone is analyzing more than is advisable; but then again, the other person may not think so.
If what I said was extremely confusing, what I meant was; Over-Analyzing is a relative term and depends on individual. I don't think we are over-analyzing at all.
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Upulwan - Aug 31, 2004 10:37 pm (#2228 of 2916)
Ahh... S.E. Jones, I thought we might hit that little snag Stalemate indeed. And throw 'over-analyzing' into it, what can I do but rest my case until the book is out.
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Hermy-own - Sep 1, 2004 3:54 am (#2229 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"it is best to look for the most obvious outcomes rather than over-analyzing"
Why am I thinking Occam's Razor?
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 1, 2004 6:53 am (#2230 of 2916)
It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen--hellocello600
I agree with Tornedo. To accuse JKR of such things is pure blasphemy. What's more, if anyone has an aversion to "over" analyzing something, then this Forum is not for you.
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Catherine - Sep 1, 2004 7:03 am (#2231 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Why am I thinking Occam's Razor? --Hermy-Own
I think Timrew once said that Occam's razor was to give Pansy a shave, but I could be mis-remembering.
I think that part of the fun of the Forum is analyzing a topic to death and then to kick it around some more. It's how we cope with the pain of the long wait between the books. **wants to have a tantrum because the wait for HBP is so long**
I don't think that JKR has been trite or used cliches, but that is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it!
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 1, 2004 7:09 am (#2232 of 2916)
He he. Now where the heck is Marcus here lately? Occam's Razor keeps coming up in thread after thread and he's no where to be found!
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 9:41 am (#2233 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
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Just for the fun of it: A Google search producing a lot of references to Occam's Razor.
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 10:24 am (#2234 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Some respones to the respones to my post:
S. E. Jones
I do not think that it is really important whether Ron’s crush on Hermione is the first or the second. I do agree with bcoolbeans that it is arguable whether the crush on Fleur counts, but that does not really matter.
As for Ron’s reactions to the Yule Ball i have made another post discussing this:
The One 8/27/04 11:35am
Note that I do believe that Ron has a crush on Hermione; I just think that it may not be that deep felt, and that the very strong reactions to Krum may be the sum of several factors.
hellocello
Rarely in books do young adults go through the number of "crushes" real preteens and teens do.
This is perfectly true. But assume, as I do, that in book 6 both Harry and Ron will enter more successful relationships, Harry with Hermione and Ron with Luna. In our way we will have seen Harry’s long lasting crush on and disastrous relationship with Cho, we have seen Ron blushing when approaching the “curvy” Madam Rosemarta, we have seen Ron’s gawping cone sided rush on at Fleur and his more long lasting crush on Hermione. Isn’t this a fairly good way to show the gist of two young men stumbling along on their way towards their first true love without boring the reader with 15 failed crushes. I am not saying that this is the way JKR is going, even if I believe it to be, because I, like you, do not know what is going to happen. But if what I am guessing does happen, I think that in hindsight it will make perfectly sense to most readers.
upulwan
Whereas when it comes to H/Hr, although there are no romantic signs as such, their relationship has grown by leaps and bounds. Sure you still could chalk it off to them being the greatest of friends, but compared to them, R/Hr has just been festering, stagnant except for some deliberate 'hint hint nudge nudge's, for hundreds of pages within which it could have shown some actual growth, if JKR intended.
Thanks for these points; they are part of the reason that I believe in the H/Hr ship. I see no point in trying to prove that it is going to happen, the books are cleverly written far to ambiguous for that, and I understand that a lot of people have drawn other conclusions than I have. But there are a number of people that claim that the R/Hr ship is absolutely inevitable, and that the H/Hr ship is absolutely impossible. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The moment the H/Hr ship is revealed (if I turn out to be correct), the ship will in hindsight seem plausible to almost all readers, and if I turn out to be wrong, I have no doubt that I in hindsight will feel a little silly for fighting the obvious for so long.
To sum up: I believe that H/Hr will be the definite romantic pairing of the series, and that this will be revealed in book 6, but my objective here is only to convince you all that it is possible and reasonable idea.
PS: Note that unlike some others I never apologise for long posts. If I were really sorry for it I would have deleted it, not apologised! :-)
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S.E. Jones - Sep 1, 2004 10:52 am (#2235 of 2916)
Let it snow!
hellocello600: It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen.
Loopy Lupin: I agree with Tornedo. To accuse JKR of such things is pure blasphemy.
We've gone over this again and again. The only real difference between a classic literary device and a cliche is how they're used. If it's used as a cheap parlor trick, because you have little or no writing skill, then it's a cliche. If it's used well, with a well-written story, then it's a classic literary device. JKR has used what some call cliches and what others (at least 99% of this forum) call classic literary devices. The fact that her story can parallel so many other stories in so many ways, without ever quite retelling an old tale is proof of that. The child born of or marked by fate/a prophecy/a divine act/etc (Hercules, Cu Chulainn, King Arthur, Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter - take your pick), the wise old teacher and mentor (Merlin, Yoda, Dumbledore...), the dark tortured character with the troubled past who's actually working for the goodguys but you don't find that out til later..... They just keep going. JKR is an expert story-teller who knows how to use her literary devices. It's like comparing the subtle suspence elicited from an Alfred Hitchock film to modern day film-makers who think you have to see something blow-up or a gun go off every five minutes or you won't get that you're supposed to be in suspense. Hitchock proved that you can get just as much suspense out of thinking the gun's going to go off than actually hearing it. If done right, a story doesn't have to be cliche after cliche, just a good literary device here and there with excellent writing in between....
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 11:01 am (#2236 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The only real difference between a classic literary device and a cliche is how they're used.
This is true. S. E. Jones If the last two books are badly written, they will be full of cliches, if they are well written they are not, even with very similar storylines.
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weasley by nature - Sep 1, 2004 1:46 pm (#2237 of 2916)
I think that the R/H vs H/H is a dead end and I have read all the arguments and all I can come up with is that Ron and Hermione just "seem right" to me, which is a stupid argument. Also I can't imagine Hermione "smiling slightly" (349 US OP) when talking about Cho/Harry if she liked him, but that's also a weak point.
So to change the subject I wanted to shift it to whether Harry/Ginny is a possibility. I think that this essay shows that this is not a "stupid," "immature," or "pointless" idea as many have accused it of being. I also think that this is interesting because in OP Ron shows that he would like Ginny to be with Harry. First when Ron says "But I thought Ginny fancied Harry!" after he finds out that Ginny is dating Michael (348 US OP). Of course this could be attributed to Ron liking that Ginny wasn't dating anyone because she fancied Harry, who didn't ever notice her. But then at the end of OP this argument is discredited when, after finding out that Ginny is no longer with Michael, Ron says "Good for you. Just choose someone--better--next time" and then "he cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it" (866 OP US). On rereading OP I also found it odd that after Hermione suggests that Harry date Cho, Ron responds "What if he doesn't want to ask her?" and it is said that he "had been watching Harry with an unusually shrewd expression on his face" (460 US OP). After the excitement, Ron realizes that he doesn't want Harry to date Cho because then he can't date Ginny. Obviously Ron wanting Harry to date Ginny doesn't mean that they will but it seems important that she mentions it almost explicitly twice.
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 2:07 pm (#2238 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Harry/Ginny? It is no reason whatsoever to say that it is not possible, but somehow I do not think so. To me it make no sense to have this little girl crushing Harry for 4 years, only to move on and then suddenly get the hero anyway. Sooner and later you have to move one, and it seems a strange message to send that even if you move on you should not give up, because one day...
An other thing is that I do not find Ginny a interesting character. the vibes I get from a H/G relationship is like the vibes I understand H/Hr haters get from that relationship. Hard to say why, really.
If my H/Hr ship does not sail, I prefer a Harry/Luna (because Luna is a very interesting and different person) ship or even Harry/Susan (Simply because she seems nice and is a completely new character to explore. She also represents another house.)
It is kind of strange though, I can give you plenty reasons that I dislike the Ron/Hermione relationship, but I cannot really give you that many reasons against the Harry/Ginny relationship. But, if I am forced to ship either Harry/Ginny or Ron/Hermione, I would go for Ron/Hermione!
I will admit though, that Ginny beats Pansy on my lists of reserves for Harry should Hermione fail.
But this is of course just gut feelings, I really do not know enough of the interaction between these characters to have well founded opinions.
As for Ron shipping H/G, the most obvious interpretation for that is that Ron do have a crush on Hermione, and wants Harry out of the way.
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Weeny Owl - Sep 1, 2004 3:16 pm (#2239 of 2916)
I think Harry and Ginny are ideal for each other, and that Ginny is maturing into someone who no longer has a crush but who is developing real and lasting feelings for Harry. Her dating other guys can be a way to make sure that her feelings are real and not just what she felt when she first met Harry.
I think Ron would like to see Harry with Ginny because he wants his best friend to be a true part of the family. Harry is part of the family anyway, but being married to Ginny would make Ron and Harry brothers (brothers-in-law, maybe, but still brothers).
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hellocello3200 - Sep 1, 2004 6:56 pm (#2240 of 2916)
I guess that cliché was too negative a word. using words with accents on the end makes me feel smart. I wouldn't be here if I didn't like JKR as an author, but there are certain plot lines and ways of dropping hints about future events that crop up in all sorts of literature, movies, soap operas, etc. West side Story is a great musical even though it is blatently based on Romeo and Juliet.(Shakespeare didn't even come up with the plot. It came from some other play or poem, I can't remember which)
What I was trying to say was that I just don't see where the H/Hr supporters are getting their theory from. I think that the over-analyzing is due to wishful thinking. Harry is a very likeable character, which is why I think the books are so captivating. I want to see Harry end up with some one as much as anyone, and Hermione, another likeable character, would be a good match, but the way JKR has written the interactions between the three friends leads me to belive that she is setting the stage for a R/Hr ship by showing the bickering stage often used in books, while harry and Hermione are just good friends. I also think we should loook for the obvious because I remeber seeing something on JKR site saying that we shoul have figured it out by now, or something along those lines. That leads me to belive she left has left hints.
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Upulwan - Sep 1, 2004 7:40 pm (#2241 of 2916)
The One, you're right down my alley: if the H/Hr ship sinks, at least I'll have a hand to hold
I honestly, in all seriousness considered Harry/Ginny, and it's telling that you say, The One, that Ginny is not all that interesting (or something to that effect, and before all Ginny fans reach for those premium rotten tomatoes we all keep for special occasions, it's not that Ginny's not an interesting character in and of herself, I like her myself, just that when it comes to shipping for Harry, she lacks substance as a character.)
What I'm trying to say is, (sigh) If Hermione's character hasn't been developed to the extent to which it has now, especially in relation to Harry, I would consider Ginny as a possible contender, the way she is now, without any more development. When I repeat after The One that Ginny's not that interesting, that's what I mean. But as it is, Hermione stands as an equal to Harry at this moment, and that's why I think H/Hr is more likely. But of course, that's just me..
As for Luna, I have to think about that one..
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S.E. Jones - Sep 1, 2004 8:10 pm (#2242 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Considering we didn't get to see any real character development with Ginny till OotP (her personality was always there, but we've only got glimpses of it till now), then it isn't unreasonable to assume that Ginny will develop more in the next two books. She's already making strong connections to Harry and shares strong connections with his two best friends.... I'm not a Harry/Ginny 'shipper myself, but I have to say, I've seen some interesting arguments and that does seem to be the most likely current route.
World Day, March 2004:
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
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Sir Tornado - Sep 1, 2004 9:05 pm (#2243 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Sarah; I don't think Harry exactly likes forceful personalities.
What I find extremely amusing is that the same people who oppose H/Hr week-in and week-out are now voicing there support for H/G 'ship. Do they realize that H/G 'ship has no canon evidence? Do they realize that the relationship between H/G is as platonic as is the relationship between H/Hr? Do they realize that the same objections they raise for opposing H/Hr relationship applies to their (H/G) 'ship too? Or are they too blinded by the novelty of One-big-happy-Weasley-family theory to notice these mundane facts?
Also, I'd like to ask; what do the H/G 'shippers know about Ginny's love life anyway? How can you say so confidently that Dean Thomas was mentioned on the train by Ginny only to annoy Ron? How do you know that Colin; or any other boy in Ginny's class doesn't have a crush on her? Can the H/G 'shippers answer the above questions? I don't think they can because they really haven't thought about H/G 'ship too much at all to notice that; while they were building H/G castles on a cloud, the cloud could easily be swept away by a gust of wind. In any case, if you do manage to answer, I've got next round of questions waiting in front of me.
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 9:48 pm (#2244 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
What I was trying to say was that I just don't see where the H/Hr supporters are getting their theory from.
I want to see Harry end up with some one as much as anyone, and Hermione, another likeable character, would be a good match,...
It may be just me that is over-analyzing, but those two sentences in the same post just don't cut it for me. Sorry.
Neither in fiction nor in real life does it exist any unbreakable law stating that those who bicker must end up together.
And Upulwan: yes, if we sink, we will sink together! A comforting fact. :-)
And I might have given the impression that i dislike Ginny and really hates the H/G ship. That is note the case. Ginny is starting to get cool, and I expect her to play an important role. But when it comes to the H/G ship my reaction is:
"That is possible, but WHY?"
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RuthJ - Sep 1, 2004 9:51 pm (#2245 of 2916)
Hello, all. I'm new to this thread, it's taken me forever to get through most of these posts. Tornedo, I had to grin at your post: Or are they too blinded by the novelty of One-big-happy-Weasley-family theory to notice these mundane facts? I'm not a H/G 'shipper, but there is one bit of foreshadowing I can think of to counter your questions: at the end of OP, when Ginny tells Ron she broke up with Michael Corner, Ron says "Good for you. Just choose someone-better-next time." and then gives Harry a "furtive" look. Hmm...
I'm sure all this has been critiqued and argued, so feel free to ignore this post, but I've noticed two things JKR has said that have struck a nerve in my R/Hr-'shipping brain:
1. JKR has said more than once that the threesome are stronger together than they are apart, which makes me think she won't create any 'ship that would jeopardize the three's friendships. This is not evidence that any 'ship will happen, but as most here agree, Ron has strong/romantic feelings for Hr, whether or not these feelings are mutual. It's my opinion that a more-than-platonic 'ship btwn H&Hr would create major--perhaps unfixable--tension and damage btwn R&H and R&Hr. This also counters the ideas some have posted about H/R/HR's friendship losing its strength as the books progress.
2. In the extra stuff on the CoS DVD, JKR says Steve Kloves intimates about "mature relationships" that she does not foreshadow until GoF. The only thing I can think of this referring to is a R/Hr 'ship; in CoS movie, after Hr gets out of the hospital, she runs through the Great Hall and gives Harry a big hug, then she and Ron awkwardly shake hands.
I know we can look at H&Hr's big hug as the foreshadowing, but this to me doesn't seem to be something that doesn't appear in the other books until GoF (as opposed to Ron's obvious jealousy of Krum and Hr's anger that he didn't recognize her as a girl before).
Also, some have said that since Hr is Ron's first crush, his feelings will probably fade. But, assuming Lily was James's first crush, his feelings never faded; on the contrary, they progressed into marriage. Feel free to contradict or disprove any of the above.
On another note, I would like to see Lupin in a relationship. It's gotta be pretty hard to get a date when you're a werewolf. I think someone as easy-going, yet as smart and courageous as Tonks would be perfect for him. They can't be more than 7-10 years apart, can they?
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Hermy-own - Sep 2, 2004 3:33 am (#2246 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Do they realize that the same objections they raise for opposing H/Hr relationship applies to their (H/G) 'ship too?
Tornedo, which objections are you referring to? We have discussed the possible implications of a H/Hr 'ship and the most prevailing concern appears to be the effect it would have on the trio (the evidence suggests H/R/Hr could be jeopardised by the 'ship). In contrast, I do not see how a H/G could threaten H/R/Hr. Ron's "furtive" glance at Harry on the most recent Hogwarts Express journey is testament to this.
* Edited.
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Chris. - Sep 2, 2004 3:35 am (#2247 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Also, I'd like to ask; what do the H/G 'shippers know about Ginny's love life anyway? How can you say so confidently that Dean Thomas was mentioned on the train by Ginny only to annoy Ron? How do you know that Colin; or any other boy in Ginny's class doesn't have a crush on her? Can the H/G 'shippers answer the above questions? I don't think they can because they really haven't thought about H/G 'ship too much at all to notice that; while they were building H/G castles on a cloud, the cloud could easily be swept away by a gust of wind. In any case, if you do manage to answer, I've got next round of questions waiting in front of me. -Tornedo.
We don't know, but I think there will be more interactions between Harry and Ginny is the next two books. This will help us, and Harry, to see Ginny in a different light.
World Day, March 2004:
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
I think people have took from this that Ginny is some kind of forceful bully, who AlWAYS needs her own way. Not exactly what I thought when I read this quote. Due to my theory about Harry/Ginny interactions in HbP and book seven, I think we may see another side to her, a sensitive, more caring side.
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Upulwan - Sep 2, 2004 5:06 am (#2248 of 2916)
Sarah, for sure: I don't deny for a moment that there's massive potential for Ginny to develop into a stronger character and possibly a love interest for Harry. But I guess the question is not what will happen (simply because only JKR knows that), but what is most likely to happen. And frankly, Ginny developing over two books into a possible partner for Harry seems much less likely given where she stands now, than a Harry/Hermione relationship which already has a solid foundation to go a step further in a very convincing manner. Repeating after The One again, for H/G, I ask, "why?"
Oh I know we're never going to agree on this until the we're poked in the eye by the book (which will be much less painful than this waiting), but I simply cannot add up foreshadowing/clues/evidence/JKR quotes and arrive at H/G or Hr/R, and believe me, I've tried.
And that quote everyone has ready about Ginny becoming a forceful character says nothing about a possible ship, just that her character will attain a dimension hitherto not displayed.
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Time Traveler - Sep 2, 2004 6:14 am (#2249 of 2916)
1. JKR has said more than once that the threesome are stronger together than they are apart, which makes me think she won't create any 'ship that would jeopardize the three's friendships. This is not evidence that any 'ship will happen, but as most here agree, Ron has strong/romantic feelings for Hr, whether or not these feelings are mutual. It's my opinion that a more-than-platonic 'ship btwn H&Hr would create major--perhaps unfixable--tension and damage btwn R&H and R&Hr. This also counters the ideas some have posted about H/R/HR's friendship losing its strength as the books progress. --- RuthJ
Oh, this is a really endless job, isn't it?
BTW, The One, I'm absolutely with you. I like H/Hr and R/L ship. Plus, maybe Ginny/Neville, too. Well, I think it is Neville who needs a forceful personality. :-) But with all these 3 couples the story may seem too fairy tale-like, hmm..
About Ginny's boyfriend, I think she turned out a sorta tomboy but I also think she looks like having the most general dating course for her age. ("General" means "stereotype" here..) Many teenagers are having somewhat light dates like Ginny or Cho, aren't they? (I'm thinking about Western culture in soap operas or movies.) Another stereo type, Lavender and Patil. They really look the same as us!(a side story)
So, in conclusion, I'd like to see Ginny having more dates with other ordinary boys. But a serious ship with Harry, well, I don't know. I prefer them to remain rather "cool" friends.:-) (Oh, I think she can have a serious ship, of course, but any serious ship with other boys, except boys like Harry or Draco or Neville, will not be handled that seriously..)
Anyway, now RuthJ above, hi, about your 1st point of your last post.. I think I gave my answer in post #2205. My point about destroying Trio is;
If Ron's feeling toward Hermy is so strong as you think/believe, I think... there's no escape from the Trio's breakdown. I'm not blaming Ron, but I think he probably doubt and be jealous for H/Hr ship whether or not he's dating with hermy. Apparently, that will make noise.
Again, my point is not Ron's personality, but the kind of relationship that Harry and Hermione are showing us.:-)
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The One - Sep 2, 2004 6:23 am (#2250 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But with all these 3 couples the story may seem too fairy tale-like, hmm..
I somehow think about Neville/Susan Bones, but if you ask for canon evidence for that one, I will be in trouble...
And Time Traveler more support for our ideas! :-) I love it. Now we are three that will be holding hands if the ship should sink. Are there more of us out there?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Oh, about a hundred posts since I had visited here a couple of days ago. I really like the staffs' partnership. I'm interested in especially DD and Minerva..:-) and Snape or Sirius or Remus. And I have a practical curiosity about the relationship of dear Mr. and Mrs. Dursley. I don't know why Vernon has accepted and cared about Petunia so much, even if she had such a "abnormal" sister... Just divorce or something is absolutely abnormal for him, too? (half joking.)
However, I really love this discussion The One brought out. I had questioned the main reason of Ron's jealous reaction, so I will skip that part.
Rather, I was thinking about this. I saw many people, IMO more than half of all readers, think/see R/Hr ship is confirmative... However, I also see many people, IMO more than half again, are not very sure of where Hermione's mind is toward.
Then, and you know all about JKR's style, I'm wondering why she made Hermione's (maybe other Trio's also) heart so ambiguous. Let me see. If Hermione's crush on Ron (or vice versa) would turn out loud, that would not be a big deal, would that? Then, what's the point of ambiguousness of all those ships if JKR has had R/Hr ship so conclusively in her mind?
I wonder my point is clearly stated. I'm feeling that I had more things to say, but I can't remember.;-( So, bye for this post.
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Time Traveler - Aug 30, 2004 3:07 am (#2202 of 2916)
Oh, sorry, I just remembered one thing!!
About the-jealousy-will-destroy-the-Trio scenario, though I don't think it's inescapable, I doubt that R/Hr ship will cause less jealousy than H/Hr ship. I'm not talking about the intensity of their feelings.
I just suspect that (if Ron has a strong feeling to Hermione) Ron would be jealous for H/Hr relationship even if he is going out with Hermione. I'm not blaming Ron's character. The matter is just H/Hr ship itself. They are so close that anyone, even Ron can be suspicious about them..
Don't you think so? ;-)
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Hermy-own - Aug 30, 2004 3:11 am (#2203 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Welcome back, Time Traveler!
"Then, what's the point of ambiguousness of all those ships if JKR has had R/Hr ship so conclusively in her mind?"
Few possible solutions for this conundrum:
1) The ambivalence we see may just be coincidence. The clues found by observant H/Hr 'shippers may have been unintentional on Rowling's part.
2) JKR is known to throw a red-herring once in a while. In this case, to keep us guessing right until the moment R/Hr have their first kiss ;-)
3) JKR never intended for the R/Hr 'ship to sail. The titanic itself is the red-herring; H/Hr is the good 'ship.
Does that make sense, Time Traveller? Anyone else? Anything I might have missed?
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 30, 2004 4:36 am (#2204 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
4) JK loves the theories we invent.. she likes to keep us going
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Hermy-own - Aug 30, 2004 5:03 am (#2205 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Well said FF! BTW, well done with that essay some time ago. It was an excellent read.
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Time Traveler - Aug 30, 2004 5:57 am (#2206 of 2916)
Thanks for the welcoming, hermy-own! Just a quick thinking about 2) JKR is known to throw a red-herring once in a while. In this case, to keep us guessing right until the moment R/Hr have their first kiss ;-)
I thought about this before.. Well, her red-herrings about this matter don't seem to have worked much.. I think there are much more R/Hr shippers (or ship believers, who just believe that is obvioius rather than it should be fulfilled..) than H/Hr shippers in general. :-)
Edit) In conclusion, I doubt the functoin of scenes as red-herrings.
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Fawkes Forever - Aug 30, 2004 6:29 am (#2207 of 2916)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Hermy-own (Thanks also Tornedo). It was an answer to a post that got a bit out of hand...
Time Traveller... I thought I recognised the name! Welcome back
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Casey - Aug 30, 2004 8:17 am (#2208 of 2916)
I've been all for Hermione and Ron from the very beginning, until I started thinking about it this weekend. I went to see POA again, and I kept looking for "the clue" that gave JKR chills. (I'm still leaning more toward it being something about Sirius. Not that he'll come back from the dead, but something...anyway...off topic). If the clue really is Lupin discussing Lily, and if he really WAS in love with Lily when they were in school, what if the Hermione/Ron/Harry thing becomes a parallel to the relationship Lupin had with James and Lily? Who would be Lupin in the situation? Harry or Ron?
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Weeny Owl - Aug 30, 2004 10:30 am (#2209 of 2916)
Then, what's the point of ambiguousness of all those ships if JKR has had R/Hr ship so conclusively in her mind?
The point is that they meet when they're not even teenagers, so that by the end of the series we've basically seen a group of kids growing up, and that regardless of the amazing world they live in, they're still ordinary kids in a lot of ways.
If there's a parallel between (in alphabetical order) Lily/Lupin/James and Harry/Hermione/Ron, it could go either way.
James and Harry are blood relatives, have money, look alike, and seem to have a lot of the same personality traits, but at the same time, Lupin was, in many ways, the odd man out while at school because of the werewolf thing just as Harry is the odd man out at school because of the Voldemort thing, plus they're both half-bloods. Ron and James are basically normal wizards and they're both pure-bloods, plus Ron has a sense of adventure that James had. I don't see how parallels can be adequately made, really.
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Casey - Aug 30, 2004 10:57 am (#2210 of 2916)
I just meant a parallel in the sense that ONE of the guys, does not get the girl. Adequate parallels toward their personalities I didn't even think about.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 30, 2004 11:08 am (#2211 of 2916)
I think that comparing Lupin/lily/James and Harry/Hermione/Ron is an interesting idea, but since we don't know conclusively if Lupin liked Lily or how Harry/Ron/Hermonie will play out it is hard to say anything for sure. I have to addmit that the scane on the bridge in the PoA movie caused some giggles from my groups section of the theater but that could be expliained by excessive coke consumption.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 30, 2004 2:57 pm (#2212 of 2916)
Let it snow!
The Lily/Lupin relationship was, until we are told otherwise, a pure movie moment. Please move discussion of it to one of the movie threads. Now if you feel there is canon evidence for this outside the movies or if you had similar suspicions long before the movie came out and would like to present your ideas as such, that might be different....
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Chris. - Aug 30, 2004 3:02 pm (#2213 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I, for one, do not think that there was any relationship between Lupin or Lily, or even an attraction between the two.
Probably Lily thought of Lupin as the quieter, nicer one, but I do not think anything happened.
Harry/Ron/Hermione is a tricky one, seeing as each member depends on another. But I think R/Hr would be easier, seeing as Harry does not fancy Hermione.
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True Love - Aug 30, 2004 5:33 pm (#2214 of 2916)
You know what they say, a girl with a future avoids a man with a past. Hermione should stick to Ron. Harry seems to have more of a past life in his 15 or 16 years than most folks would have in a life time.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 30, 2004 7:59 pm (#2215 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
You know what they say, a girl with a future avoids a man with a past. Hermione should stick to Ron. Harry seems to have more of a past life in his 15 or 16 years than most folks would have in a life time. -- True Love
True Love... I don't think Hermione exactly cares about Harry's past any more. They've been friends for 5 years now. (Rather they were friends for 5 years in OotP)
Now, as far as the discussion about the comparisons between MLPP and Trio goes... here's (post#849) my views on that. It was, incidently my first post on this forum.
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Casey - Aug 31, 2004 6:41 am (#2216 of 2916)
The Lily/Lupin relationship was, until we are told otherwise, a pure movie moment. Please move discussion of it to one of the movie threads. Now if you feel there is canon evidence for this outside the movies or if you had similar suspicions long before the movie came out and would like to present your ideas as such, that might be different....
I posted it HERE because it was about relationships. Also, there's been so much talk all over this board that Lupin was giving us the "clue" in POA, I didn't think it would matter. That's not what the bulk of my post was about anyway, and I didn't know it would cause such a problem.
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Chris. - Aug 31, 2004 10:15 am (#2217 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Casey, I think S.E. Jones said that because she didn't want us to mix up canon and the movies, much like with the Ron/Hermione moments in PA.
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Remus J. Lupin - Aug 31, 2004 11:06 am (#2218 of 2916)
Slytherin Prefect, I read that you think Harry+Pansy. How about not! It should be Draco+Pansy. For whoever said Hermy+Draco, that made me think....I don't know if I should post this in this thread, but....What if Snape secretly liked Lily when they were in school and that's another reason why he hated James so much? It's similar to Draco+Hermy theory. What if that's why Draco hates Ron so much? Because they're in love with the same woman?! Think about it....it could happen. Just a thought.
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Hermy-own - Aug 31, 2004 11:41 am (#2219 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Remus, I suggest you take a look at this thread by Prefect Marcus. The theory appears to support itself so don't be surprised if you have second thoughts on Harry/Pansy. Just a warning...
Yes, Snape/Lily has been mentioned on this thread, here's a link. I am pretty sure there have been other references.
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The One - Aug 31, 2004 1:23 pm (#2220 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
A few days ago I posted a post question whether Ron really has a crush on Hermione, and if he has, whether it is so deep-felt as it may seem.
In this post I will assume that the crush does exist (as I realize it very well may do), and ask: so what? I have only considered the boys here, Hermione’s feelings will of course be important for the final outcome, but they are not needed to analyze the boys’ feelings.
Ron and Harry met Hermione, entered a close friendship with her, and then they grew into the age there the opposite sex starts getting interesting. Their close female friend has played very different roles in the two boys voyage towards manhood.
Harry views Hermione as one of the boys and as the hormones kicks in, he does not consider Hermione at all. Instead he develops a crush on this beautiful sporting babe he hardly knows. As expected for a young mans first crush, the relationship with the sporting babe leads nowhere. This pattern is quite plausible for a young boy.
Ron takes another route. He is crushing on the closest girl available that is not his sister. That is also quite normal. But is there really any reason to believe that his crush is any more mature than Harry’s? Just as for any other young man, the prospects for his first crush would be assumed to be slim.
It is true that Ron knows Hermione better than Harry knows Cho, but the fact is that Ron does not really know what he wants from a girlfriend. He just crushes on the only girl he knows well that is not a giggling Trelawney supporter or in some other way very un-Ron. (Hermione is in many way un-Ron too, but he have got used to her)
As Ron matures and expands his horizon he may very well discover that the girl he really desires is not Hermione at all, just as when Harry matures he may one day discover that the girl of his dream was just in front of him all the time. (And no, I am not thinking of Ginny…)
This does of course not in any way prove that things will happen as I have imagined them. My only point is that for 15-year old kids their history so far does not really guarantee that failing to get Hermione (or even see Harry and Hermione get together) must be a disaster for Ron, neither does it preclude Harry from falling in love with Hermione at some point in the future.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 31, 2004 2:01 pm (#2221 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Ron takes another route. He is crushing on the closest girl available that is not his sister. That is also quite normal. But is there really any reason to believe that his crush is any more mature than Harry’s? Just as for any other young man, the prospects for his first crush would be assumed to be slim.
An interesting, and somewhat revealing, thought. However, I disagree. That isn't how I see Ron's "crush" at all. Ron's first crush was on Fleur, so he took the same route that Harry did - he looked for the "beautiful... babe he hardly knows", and it didn't turn out well for Ron either as she didn't even give him the time of day until he helped "save" her sister from the lake. I see his feelings for Hermione as being much deeper than a crush as I don't think he initially wanted them to be there. I think he was very surprised and disturbed by these sudden feelings for his buddy Hermione in GoF (hence much of the anger we see during the Yule Ball), and by the realization that admitting to such feelings could end their long-standing friendship (as is often the case with friends who become, or want to become, more than friends). Why would he suddenly see Hermione differently? Well, she was being treated as a romantic object by another and that could easily make Ron see her in a romantic light or realize he didn't like her being with someone else (notice he seems fine with her going to the ball with Neville or Harry who he probably doesn't see as being able to get her attention in a romantic way). You may note that he becomes quite obsessive about finding out who she was going to the ball with, asking her every so often hoping to catch her off guard. He even diverts his attention from a snowball fight (not a smart idea, especially when playing with siblings, who will be more ruthless than others) to ask her. Dean notes that Ron and Harry got "the best looking girls in the year" and yet Ron's first question upon entering the Common Room is "Where's Hermione?". Also, notice that it's Ron who notices her smile is different after she has her teeth shrunk back to normal; Harry doesn't notice until it's pointed out. Harry and Parvati wonder who the pretty girl in the blue robes is at the Yule Ball and do a double-take when they see it's Hermione, as does just about everyone who walks past, except Ron (he walks right past). Does that mean he didn't see her or didn't recognize her? I get the feeling that he recognized her right off, hence his purposely not looking at her and Victor.
I could keep going, but I won't.....
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coolbeans3131 - Aug 31, 2004 5:18 pm (#2222 of 2916)
I don't think Ron had a real crush on Fleur. I think it was just the veela fumes she was giving off.
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Upulwan - Aug 31, 2004 5:46 pm (#2223 of 2916)
The One and S.E Jones, you both make good points, and I'm having difficulty deciding where my loyalties lie
Everything else aside, I hesitate when it comes to R/Hr, simply because their relationship or the whiff of it, has remained just that, a whiff. It's not depicted in the books to have developed at all, except if you count the escalation in bickering. So S. E Jones, I don't know how you could say that R/Hr goes deeper than it seems (or something to the effect, I'm paraphrasing).
Whereas when it comes to H/Hr, although there are no romantic signs as such, their relationship has grown by leaps and bounds. Sure you still could chalk it off to them being the greatest of friends, but compared to them, R/Hr has just been festering, stagnant except for some deliberate 'hint hint nudge nudge's, for hundreds of pages within which it could have shown some actual growth, if JKR intended. Now I don't claim to be able to read JKR's mind, but when a novelist does that you can't help but sit up and take notice of what is not obvious.
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S.E. Jones - Aug 31, 2004 6:21 pm (#2224 of 2916)
Let it snow!
You say I'm seeing the R/Hr 'ship as being deeper than what is written. I say you see the H/Hr 'ship as being deeper than what is written. Again, we are at the stalemate of this being a matter of each individual reader's interpretation of the material....
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hellocello3200 - Aug 31, 2004 6:24 pm (#2225 of 2916)
I agree with the One that first crushes rarely work out in real life, but this isn't a actual account of the lives of adolescents. It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen. Rarely on books do young adults go through the number of "crushes" real preteens and teens do. I think that in the case of relationships in the Harry Potter books, it is best to look for the most obvious outcomes rather than over-analyzing.
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Czarina II - Aug 31, 2004 7:42 pm (#2226 of 2916)
Well put, the One, SE Jones, and hellocello.
I have to say that the relationship between Ron and Hermione has grown, but Harry hasn't noticed because it has not been a significant change for him to do so -- he has more important things to worry about at the present. Yet Ron and Hermione do seem to be at a bit of a stalemate as well. People should interpret that as "it's going nowhere", not "it will never go anywhere". Their relationship might take a giant leap forward if one of them makes a move and the other responds. If neither of them do so, their relationship would eventually fizzle. It would probably take a long time, though.
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Sir Tornado - Aug 31, 2004 8:35 pm (#2227 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen. -- Hellocell600
In works of fiction... but definately not in Harry Potter.
I think that in the case of relationships in the Harry Potter books, it is best to look for the most obvious outcomes rather than over-analyzing. -- Hellocell600
I disagree completely. To predict something, you have to analyze it completely. And, speaking of that, you can only Analyze, not "Over-analyze". It is just a word we tend to use when we feel that someone is analyzing more than is advisable; but then again, the other person may not think so.
If what I said was extremely confusing, what I meant was; Over-Analyzing is a relative term and depends on individual. I don't think we are over-analyzing at all.
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Upulwan - Aug 31, 2004 10:37 pm (#2228 of 2916)
Ahh... S.E. Jones, I thought we might hit that little snag
Stalemate indeed. And throw 'over-analyzing' into it, what can I do but rest my case until the book is out. - - - - - - - - - -
Hermy-own - Sep 1, 2004 3:54 am (#2229 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
"it is best to look for the most obvious outcomes rather than over-analyzing"
Why am I thinking Occam's Razor?
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 1, 2004 6:53 am (#2230 of 2916)
It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen--hellocello600
I agree with Tornedo. To accuse JKR of such things is pure blasphemy. What's more, if anyone has an aversion to "over" analyzing something, then this Forum is not for you.
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Catherine - Sep 1, 2004 7:03 am (#2231 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Why am I thinking Occam's Razor? --Hermy-Own
I think Timrew once said that Occam's razor was to give Pansy a shave, but I could be mis-remembering.
I think that part of the fun of the Forum is analyzing a topic to death and then to kick it around some more. It's how we cope with the pain of the long wait between the books. **wants to have a tantrum because the wait for HBP is so long**
I don't think that JKR has been trite or used cliches, but that is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it!
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 1, 2004 7:09 am (#2232 of 2916)
He he. Now where the heck is Marcus here lately? Occam's Razor keeps coming up in thread after thread and he's no where to be found!
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 9:41 am (#2233 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Just for the fun of it: A Google search producing a lot of references to Occam's Razor.
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 10:24 am (#2234 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Some respones to the respones to my post:
S. E. Jones
I do not think that it is really important whether Ron’s crush on Hermione is the first or the second. I do agree with bcoolbeans that it is arguable whether the crush on Fleur counts, but that does not really matter.
As for Ron’s reactions to the Yule Ball i have made another post discussing this:
The One 8/27/04 11:35am
Note that I do believe that Ron has a crush on Hermione; I just think that it may not be that deep felt, and that the very strong reactions to Krum may be the sum of several factors.
hellocello
Rarely in books do young adults go through the number of "crushes" real preteens and teens do.
This is perfectly true. But assume, as I do, that in book 6 both Harry and Ron will enter more successful relationships, Harry with Hermione and Ron with Luna. In our way we will have seen Harry’s long lasting crush on and disastrous relationship with Cho, we have seen Ron blushing when approaching the “curvy” Madam Rosemarta, we have seen Ron’s gawping cone sided rush on at Fleur and his more long lasting crush on Hermione. Isn’t this a fairly good way to show the gist of two young men stumbling along on their way towards their first true love without boring the reader with 15 failed crushes. I am not saying that this is the way JKR is going, even if I believe it to be, because I, like you, do not know what is going to happen. But if what I am guessing does happen, I think that in hindsight it will make perfectly sense to most readers.
upulwan
Whereas when it comes to H/Hr, although there are no romantic signs as such, their relationship has grown by leaps and bounds. Sure you still could chalk it off to them being the greatest of friends, but compared to them, R/Hr has just been festering, stagnant except for some deliberate 'hint hint nudge nudge's, for hundreds of pages within which it could have shown some actual growth, if JKR intended.
Thanks for these points; they are part of the reason that I believe in the H/Hr ship. I see no point in trying to prove that it is going to happen, the books are cleverly written far to ambiguous for that, and I understand that a lot of people have drawn other conclusions than I have. But there are a number of people that claim that the R/Hr ship is absolutely inevitable, and that the H/Hr ship is absolutely impossible. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The moment the H/Hr ship is revealed (if I turn out to be correct), the ship will in hindsight seem plausible to almost all readers, and if I turn out to be wrong, I have no doubt that I in hindsight will feel a little silly for fighting the obvious for so long.
To sum up: I believe that H/Hr will be the definite romantic pairing of the series, and that this will be revealed in book 6, but my objective here is only to convince you all that it is possible and reasonable idea.
PS: Note that unlike some others I never apologise for long posts. If I were really sorry for it I would have deleted it, not apologised! :-)
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S.E. Jones - Sep 1, 2004 10:52 am (#2235 of 2916)
Let it snow!
hellocello600: It is a work of fiction and in works of fiction trite and cliché things often happen.
Loopy Lupin: I agree with Tornedo. To accuse JKR of such things is pure blasphemy.
We've gone over this again and again. The only real difference between a classic literary device and a cliche is how they're used. If it's used as a cheap parlor trick, because you have little or no writing skill, then it's a cliche. If it's used well, with a well-written story, then it's a classic literary device. JKR has used what some call cliches and what others (at least 99% of this forum) call classic literary devices. The fact that her story can parallel so many other stories in so many ways, without ever quite retelling an old tale is proof of that. The child born of or marked by fate/a prophecy/a divine act/etc (Hercules, Cu Chulainn, King Arthur, Luke Skywalker, Harry Potter - take your pick), the wise old teacher and mentor (Merlin, Yoda, Dumbledore...), the dark tortured character with the troubled past who's actually working for the goodguys but you don't find that out til later..... They just keep going. JKR is an expert story-teller who knows how to use her literary devices. It's like comparing the subtle suspence elicited from an Alfred Hitchock film to modern day film-makers who think you have to see something blow-up or a gun go off every five minutes or you won't get that you're supposed to be in suspense. Hitchock proved that you can get just as much suspense out of thinking the gun's going to go off than actually hearing it. If done right, a story doesn't have to be cliche after cliche, just a good literary device here and there with excellent writing in between....
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 11:01 am (#2236 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The only real difference between a classic literary device and a cliche is how they're used.
This is true. S. E. Jones If the last two books are badly written, they will be full of cliches, if they are well written they are not, even with very similar storylines.
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weasley by nature - Sep 1, 2004 1:46 pm (#2237 of 2916)
I think that the R/H vs H/H is a dead end and I have read all the arguments and all I can come up with is that Ron and Hermione just "seem right" to me, which is a stupid argument. Also I can't imagine Hermione "smiling slightly" (349 US OP) when talking about Cho/Harry if she liked him, but that's also a weak point.
So to change the subject I wanted to shift it to whether Harry/Ginny is a possibility. I think that this essay shows that this is not a "stupid," "immature," or "pointless" idea as many have accused it of being. I also think that this is interesting because in OP Ron shows that he would like Ginny to be with Harry. First when Ron says "But I thought Ginny fancied Harry!" after he finds out that Ginny is dating Michael (348 US OP). Of course this could be attributed to Ron liking that Ginny wasn't dating anyone because she fancied Harry, who didn't ever notice her. But then at the end of OP this argument is discredited when, after finding out that Ginny is no longer with Michael, Ron says "Good for you. Just choose someone--better--next time" and then "he cast Harry an oddly furtive look as he said it" (866 OP US). On rereading OP I also found it odd that after Hermione suggests that Harry date Cho, Ron responds "What if he doesn't want to ask her?" and it is said that he "had been watching Harry with an unusually shrewd expression on his face" (460 US OP). After the excitement, Ron realizes that he doesn't want Harry to date Cho because then he can't date Ginny. Obviously Ron wanting Harry to date Ginny doesn't mean that they will but it seems important that she mentions it almost explicitly twice.
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 2:07 pm (#2238 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Harry/Ginny? It is no reason whatsoever to say that it is not possible, but somehow I do not think so. To me it make no sense to have this little girl crushing Harry for 4 years, only to move on and then suddenly get the hero anyway. Sooner and later you have to move one, and it seems a strange message to send that even if you move on you should not give up, because one day...
An other thing is that I do not find Ginny a interesting character. the vibes I get from a H/G relationship is like the vibes I understand H/Hr haters get from that relationship. Hard to say why, really.
If my H/Hr ship does not sail, I prefer a Harry/Luna (because Luna is a very interesting and different person) ship or even Harry/Susan (Simply because she seems nice and is a completely new character to explore. She also represents another house.)
It is kind of strange though, I can give you plenty reasons that I dislike the Ron/Hermione relationship, but I cannot really give you that many reasons against the Harry/Ginny relationship. But, if I am forced to ship either Harry/Ginny or Ron/Hermione, I would go for Ron/Hermione!
I will admit though, that Ginny beats Pansy on my lists of reserves for Harry should Hermione fail.
But this is of course just gut feelings, I really do not know enough of the interaction between these characters to have well founded opinions.
As for Ron shipping H/G, the most obvious interpretation for that is that Ron do have a crush on Hermione, and wants Harry out of the way.
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Weeny Owl - Sep 1, 2004 3:16 pm (#2239 of 2916)
I think Harry and Ginny are ideal for each other, and that Ginny is maturing into someone who no longer has a crush but who is developing real and lasting feelings for Harry. Her dating other guys can be a way to make sure that her feelings are real and not just what she felt when she first met Harry.
I think Ron would like to see Harry with Ginny because he wants his best friend to be a true part of the family. Harry is part of the family anyway, but being married to Ginny would make Ron and Harry brothers (brothers-in-law, maybe, but still brothers).
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hellocello3200 - Sep 1, 2004 6:56 pm (#2240 of 2916)
I guess that cliché was too negative a word. using words with accents on the end makes me feel smart. I wouldn't be here if I didn't like JKR as an author, but there are certain plot lines and ways of dropping hints about future events that crop up in all sorts of literature, movies, soap operas, etc. West side Story is a great musical even though it is blatently based on Romeo and Juliet.(Shakespeare didn't even come up with the plot. It came from some other play or poem, I can't remember which)
What I was trying to say was that I just don't see where the H/Hr supporters are getting their theory from. I think that the over-analyzing is due to wishful thinking. Harry is a very likeable character, which is why I think the books are so captivating. I want to see Harry end up with some one as much as anyone, and Hermione, another likeable character, would be a good match, but the way JKR has written the interactions between the three friends leads me to belive that she is setting the stage for a R/Hr ship by showing the bickering stage often used in books, while harry and Hermione are just good friends. I also think we should loook for the obvious because I remeber seeing something on JKR site saying that we shoul have figured it out by now, or something along those lines. That leads me to belive she left has left hints.
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Upulwan - Sep 1, 2004 7:40 pm (#2241 of 2916)
The One, you're right down my alley: if the H/Hr ship sinks, at least I'll have a hand to hold
I honestly, in all seriousness considered Harry/Ginny, and it's telling that you say, The One, that Ginny is not all that interesting (or something to that effect, and before all Ginny fans reach for those premium rotten tomatoes we all keep for special occasions, it's not that Ginny's not an interesting character in and of herself, I like her myself, just that when it comes to shipping for Harry, she lacks substance as a character.)
What I'm trying to say is, (sigh) If Hermione's character hasn't been developed to the extent to which it has now, especially in relation to Harry, I would consider Ginny as a possible contender, the way she is now, without any more development. When I repeat after The One that Ginny's not that interesting, that's what I mean. But as it is, Hermione stands as an equal to Harry at this moment, and that's why I think H/Hr is more likely. But of course, that's just me..
As for Luna, I have to think about that one..
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S.E. Jones - Sep 1, 2004 8:10 pm (#2242 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Considering we didn't get to see any real character development with Ginny till OotP (her personality was always there, but we've only got glimpses of it till now), then it isn't unreasonable to assume that Ginny will develop more in the next two books. She's already making strong connections to Harry and shares strong connections with his two best friends.... I'm not a Harry/Ginny 'shipper myself, but I have to say, I've seen some interesting arguments and that does seem to be the most likely current route.
World Day, March 2004:
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
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Sir Tornado - Sep 1, 2004 9:05 pm (#2243 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Sarah; I don't think Harry exactly likes forceful personalities.
What I find extremely amusing is that the same people who oppose H/Hr week-in and week-out are now voicing there support for H/G 'ship. Do they realize that H/G 'ship has no canon evidence? Do they realize that the relationship between H/G is as platonic as is the relationship between H/Hr? Do they realize that the same objections they raise for opposing H/Hr relationship applies to their (H/G) 'ship too? Or are they too blinded by the novelty of One-big-happy-Weasley-family theory to notice these mundane facts?
Also, I'd like to ask; what do the H/G 'shippers know about Ginny's love life anyway? How can you say so confidently that Dean Thomas was mentioned on the train by Ginny only to annoy Ron? How do you know that Colin; or any other boy in Ginny's class doesn't have a crush on her? Can the H/G 'shippers answer the above questions? I don't think they can because they really haven't thought about H/G 'ship too much at all to notice that; while they were building H/G castles on a cloud, the cloud could easily be swept away by a gust of wind. In any case, if you do manage to answer, I've got next round of questions waiting in front of me.
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The One - Sep 1, 2004 9:48 pm (#2244 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
What I was trying to say was that I just don't see where the H/Hr supporters are getting their theory from.
I want to see Harry end up with some one as much as anyone, and Hermione, another likeable character, would be a good match,...
It may be just me that is over-analyzing, but those two sentences in the same post just don't cut it for me. Sorry.
Neither in fiction nor in real life does it exist any unbreakable law stating that those who bicker must end up together.
And Upulwan: yes, if we sink, we will sink together! A comforting fact. :-)
And I might have given the impression that i dislike Ginny and really hates the H/G ship. That is note the case. Ginny is starting to get cool, and I expect her to play an important role. But when it comes to the H/G ship my reaction is:
"That is possible, but WHY?"
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RuthJ - Sep 1, 2004 9:51 pm (#2245 of 2916)
Hello, all. I'm new to this thread, it's taken me forever to get through most of these posts. Tornedo, I had to grin at your post: Or are they too blinded by the novelty of One-big-happy-Weasley-family theory to notice these mundane facts? I'm not a H/G 'shipper, but there is one bit of foreshadowing I can think of to counter your questions: at the end of OP, when Ginny tells Ron she broke up with Michael Corner, Ron says "Good for you. Just choose someone-better-next time." and then gives Harry a "furtive" look. Hmm...
I'm sure all this has been critiqued and argued, so feel free to ignore this post, but I've noticed two things JKR has said that have struck a nerve in my R/Hr-'shipping brain:
1. JKR has said more than once that the threesome are stronger together than they are apart, which makes me think she won't create any 'ship that would jeopardize the three's friendships. This is not evidence that any 'ship will happen, but as most here agree, Ron has strong/romantic feelings for Hr, whether or not these feelings are mutual. It's my opinion that a more-than-platonic 'ship btwn H&Hr would create major--perhaps unfixable--tension and damage btwn R&H and R&Hr. This also counters the ideas some have posted about H/R/HR's friendship losing its strength as the books progress.
2. In the extra stuff on the CoS DVD, JKR says Steve Kloves intimates about "mature relationships" that she does not foreshadow until GoF. The only thing I can think of this referring to is a R/Hr 'ship; in CoS movie, after Hr gets out of the hospital, she runs through the Great Hall and gives Harry a big hug, then she and Ron awkwardly shake hands.
I know we can look at H&Hr's big hug as the foreshadowing, but this to me doesn't seem to be something that doesn't appear in the other books until GoF (as opposed to Ron's obvious jealousy of Krum and Hr's anger that he didn't recognize her as a girl before).
Also, some have said that since Hr is Ron's first crush, his feelings will probably fade. But, assuming Lily was James's first crush, his feelings never faded; on the contrary, they progressed into marriage. Feel free to contradict or disprove any of the above.
On another note, I would like to see Lupin in a relationship. It's gotta be pretty hard to get a date when you're a werewolf. I think someone as easy-going, yet as smart and courageous as Tonks would be perfect for him. They can't be more than 7-10 years apart, can they?
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Hermy-own - Sep 2, 2004 3:33 am (#2246 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Do they realize that the same objections they raise for opposing H/Hr relationship applies to their (H/G) 'ship too?
Tornedo, which objections are you referring to? We have discussed the possible implications of a H/Hr 'ship and the most prevailing concern appears to be the effect it would have on the trio (the evidence suggests H/R/Hr could be jeopardised by the 'ship). In contrast, I do not see how a H/G could threaten H/R/Hr. Ron's "furtive" glance at Harry on the most recent Hogwarts Express journey is testament to this.
* Edited.
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Chris. - Sep 2, 2004 3:35 am (#2247 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Also, I'd like to ask; what do the H/G 'shippers know about Ginny's love life anyway? How can you say so confidently that Dean Thomas was mentioned on the train by Ginny only to annoy Ron? How do you know that Colin; or any other boy in Ginny's class doesn't have a crush on her? Can the H/G 'shippers answer the above questions? I don't think they can because they really haven't thought about H/G 'ship too much at all to notice that; while they were building H/G castles on a cloud, the cloud could easily be swept away by a gust of wind. In any case, if you do manage to answer, I've got next round of questions waiting in front of me. -Tornedo.
We don't know, but I think there will be more interactions between Harry and Ginny is the next two books. This will help us, and Harry, to see Ginny in a different light.
World Day, March 2004:
Field: Do you plan for GInny to take on a major character role in the next two books?
JK Rowling replies -> Well, now that Ginny has stopped being mute in Harry's presence I think you can see that she is a fairly forceful personality (and she always has been, remember Ron saying that she 'never shuts up' in Chamber of Secrets)?
I think people have took from this that Ginny is some kind of forceful bully, who AlWAYS needs her own way. Not exactly what I thought when I read this quote. Due to my theory about Harry/Ginny interactions in HbP and book seven, I think we may see another side to her, a sensitive, more caring side.
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Upulwan - Sep 2, 2004 5:06 am (#2248 of 2916)
Sarah, for sure: I don't deny for a moment that there's massive potential for Ginny to develop into a stronger character and possibly a love interest for Harry. But I guess the question is not what will happen (simply because only JKR knows that), but what is most likely to happen. And frankly, Ginny developing over two books into a possible partner for Harry seems much less likely given where she stands now, than a Harry/Hermione relationship which already has a solid foundation to go a step further in a very convincing manner. Repeating after The One again, for H/G, I ask, "why?"
Oh I know we're never going to agree on this until the we're poked in the eye by the book (which will be much less painful than this waiting), but I simply cannot add up foreshadowing/clues/evidence/JKR quotes and arrive at H/G or Hr/R, and believe me, I've tried.
And that quote everyone has ready about Ginny becoming a forceful character says nothing about a possible ship, just that her character will attain a dimension hitherto not displayed.
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Time Traveler - Sep 2, 2004 6:14 am (#2249 of 2916)
1. JKR has said more than once that the threesome are stronger together than they are apart, which makes me think she won't create any 'ship that would jeopardize the three's friendships. This is not evidence that any 'ship will happen, but as most here agree, Ron has strong/romantic feelings for Hr, whether or not these feelings are mutual. It's my opinion that a more-than-platonic 'ship btwn H&Hr would create major--perhaps unfixable--tension and damage btwn R&H and R&Hr. This also counters the ideas some have posted about H/R/HR's friendship losing its strength as the books progress. --- RuthJ
Oh, this is a really endless job, isn't it?
BTW, The One, I'm absolutely with you. I like H/Hr and R/L ship. Plus, maybe Ginny/Neville, too. Well, I think it is Neville who needs a forceful personality. :-) But with all these 3 couples the story may seem too fairy tale-like, hmm..
About Ginny's boyfriend, I think she turned out a sorta tomboy but I also think she looks like having the most general dating course for her age. ("General" means "stereotype" here..) Many teenagers are having somewhat light dates like Ginny or Cho, aren't they? (I'm thinking about Western culture in soap operas or movies.
) Another stereo type, Lavender and Patil. They really look the same as us!(a side story)So, in conclusion, I'd like to see Ginny having more dates with other ordinary boys. But a serious ship with Harry, well, I don't know. I prefer them to remain rather "cool" friends.:-) (Oh, I think she can have a serious ship, of course, but any serious ship with other boys, except boys like Harry or Draco or Neville, will not be handled that seriously..)
Anyway, now RuthJ above, hi, about your 1st point of your last post.. I think I gave my answer in post #2205. My point about destroying Trio is;
If Ron's feeling toward Hermy is so strong as you think/believe, I think... there's no escape from the Trio's breakdown. I'm not blaming Ron, but I think he probably doubt and be jealous for H/Hr ship whether or not he's dating with hermy. Apparently, that will make noise.
Again, my point is not Ron's personality, but the kind of relationship that Harry and Hermione are showing us.:-)
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The One - Sep 2, 2004 6:23 am (#2250 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
But with all these 3 couples the story may seem too fairy tale-like, hmm..
I somehow think about Neville/Susan Bones, but if you ask for canon evidence for that one, I will be in trouble...
And Time Traveler more support for our ideas! :-) I love it. Now we are three that will be holding hands if the ship should sink. Are there more of us out there?
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S.E. Jones - Sep 2, 2004 4:20 pm (#2251 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Upulwan: And frankly, Ginny developing over two books into a possible partner for Harry seems much less likely given where she stands now, than a Harry/Hermione relationship which already has a solid foundation to go a step further in a very convincing manner. Repeating after The One again, for H/G, I ask, "why?"
I'm not a H/G 'shipper. I can't personally see it. However, I believet the original topic was "whether Harry/Ginny is a possibility." Considering the degree of change we saw from GoF to OotP, it isn't unrealistic to imagine that JKR could continue this degree of change in HBP as well. As for H/Hr having a strong foundation, again this is a personal opinion. From a R/Hr 'shipper point of view, I would argue that R/Hr are the only two to have a strong foundation laid out in the pages of the series. As a H/Hr 'shipper, you would argue otherwise. As a R/Hr 'shipper, I would say this disqualifies Hermione from a possible relationship with Harry and so would look for others to take up that spot, if Harry will indeed have a 'ship, and would argue, therefore, that Ginny is the character we know best outside the Trio, near their age, and to whom Harry shares some connections. This, in my view, makes her a possibility. Not necessarily a probability, but definately a possibility.... Again, it's all a matter of personal perspective.
RuthJ: This also counters the ideas some have posted about H/R/HR's friendship losing its strength as the books progress.
As someone who has mentioned this, I'd like to point out that I never said their friendship was losing strength, simply that Harry was being distanced from them so as to rely more on himself and others outside the Trio. I think this is an important aspect of the books, for Harry to broaden his range of friends and allies. However, the Trio's friendship will always continue to strength as long as they know each other, care for each other, go through crisis after crisis together, and as long as nothing acts to drive a permanent wedge between them.
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Hermy-own - Sep 2, 2004 5:37 pm (#2252 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yet again, well said Sarah!
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hellocello3200 - Sep 2, 2004 6:10 pm (#2253 of 2916)
The One, what I'm trying to say is that there is little pointing to a H/Hr ship in the books but many people (Myself included) would like to see a H/Hr ship and search for anything that might support thier theory.
As for H/G. I think that is possible but I think we will have to wait until more of Ginny's character is revealed.
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RuthJ - Sep 2, 2004 6:12 pm (#2254 of 2916)
...Harry was being distanced from them so as to rely more on himself and others outside the Trio. Good point, Sarah. And now that you've mentioned it, I look back at PS/SS and CoS, in which most--if not all--of their adventures were together, vs. GoF, and to a lesser degree OotP, where he's by himself more often.
I was thinking more of the the Trio's abilities in magic and their emotional states: just as Harry could never have gotten through the MoM without Ron and Hermione (and Ginny and Neville and Luna), I'm sure he won't get through HBP w/o them, especially with the death of Sirius.
...as long as nothing acts to drive a permanent wedge between them. If there's any one thing that could create this wedge, I think it could be Harry becoming introverted and closed-off in dealing w/ his grief for Sirius. (Just like he stopped talking to everyone at Christmas when they all heard Moody say Voldemort was possessing him.) He will need his friends more than ever, which is another reason I lean against the H/Hr 'ship theory; he's got enough problems as it is, and creating a romance with one of his best friends will, I believe, only add to his stress & confusion (although I know H/Hr 'shippers will argue that a romance w/ Hr will help him cope). :sigh: these debates about 'ships are really just going in circles.
Edit: hellocello, I agree that we'll have to wait for more info about a H/G 'ship. If Harry spends a lot of time w/ G during the summer, something may develop; on the other hand, their 'ship could become more fraternal.
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The One - Sep 2, 2004 10:57 pm (#2255 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The One, what I'm trying to say is that there is little pointing to a H/Hr ship in the books but many people (Myself included) would like to see a H/Hr ship and search for anything that might support their theory.
And this is where I loose you. IMHO there are a lot of clues that either points towards H/Hr or are deliberately placed there by the author in order to distract her readers. The fact (again IMHO) that the characters Harry/Hermione is written as a better match than Ron/Hermione is one of them, hence my reaction to your post.
These clues seem to me to be the real thing, while the Ron/Hermione clues (once again IMHO) very much have the look and feel of JKR using the good old “bickering couple” cliché as a diversion.
The only problem I see is that the clues mostly points to Hermione->Harry, and much less to Harry->Hermione. This is usually explained by Harry’s crush on Cho, and may (or may not) change when Cho is no longer an issue.
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Upulwan - Sep 3, 2004 4:36 am (#2256 of 2916)
THANK you, The One, I was sitting here practically exploding with an answer to that one about there not being pointers for H/Hr, but you made it there first!
I for one didn't start off 'wanting' to see a Harry/Hermione relationship, I just kind of found it impossible to ignore the signs after a certain point in the books. And there I was minding my own business, not even looking for a ship...
Sarah, (by the way I like arguing with you because your expressions are very succint) the 'pointers' are just that, and very deliberately so, and given JKR's style I think she's 'pointing' in a direction different to her real intentions, distracting attention from what's right under our noses (H/Hr) until such moment as it suits her to reveal it. Of course this is personal opinion and I don't lay claim to reading JKR's mind (oh what wouldn't I give..) I could go on at length, quoting and referring to evidence in the books, but like someone said, this is rather endless, isn't it?
And The One, I'm sure there are lots more than just three of us putting up camp for H/Hr, it's just that those R/Hr roadsigns are rather too distracting...
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Time Traveler - Sep 3, 2004 6:02 am (#2257 of 2916)
Hi, here comes another H/Hr shipper. This post is from only my curiosity, so there's no canon evidence or clue. So, if you don't like, just move on.
There's something that has bothered me.. How did Hermione get to know about Ginny's change of mind? (about Harry, of course.) Oh, I think she probably heard directly from Ginny, but exactly how? Some other questions about Ginny. When did she start to talk to Harry, I think never before the OoP? And when did Ginny and Hermione become so close friends?:-)
Anyway, to the first question again. 2 possible guesses. 1. Ginny confessed her *abruptly*. 2. Was it Hermione who first asked about Harry? I've imagined about what the scene was like.. It's very interesting. (I'm not a good narrater, so I won't give you my fictional lines. In fact, I tried it but it's not going very well.)
In my 1st imagine, what I'm thinking about is what made Ginny say things like "I gave up on Harry." A girl says to another girl, "Hey, I don't like him any more." To me, this sounds like "But, what about you?" Ha ha.. Sorry, this is really far-fetched.:-)
About the 2nd guess, I find it very odd that Hermione saying "Ginny, you don't seem to care about Harry much.." Somehow I am very sure that she said this with brisk and businesslike tone. LOL
Sorry, but whenever I imagine about this hidden scene, I just feel some tension of Hermione. BTW, do you have any idea about Hermione and Ginny? I really want to know what kind of things they are talking when they are off-screen. I think they probably talk about hmm, more girl things?:-) Please give me an Extendable Ear!
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 6:24 am (#2258 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I would imagine Harry and Ginny became friends over the GF summer. They were all at the Burrow, and I'm sure they kept each other company. Hermione doesn't seem to have friends, in Gryffindor, of her own age, like Lavender or Parvati. Girls talk about their latest crushes to each other. It's a common thing. Ginny probably told Hermione herself.
Probably Hermione could have touched on the subject of Harry with Ginny. Hermione NEEDS to know EVERYTHING. Maybe a game of Truth and Dare? Who knows...
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Time Traveler - Sep 3, 2004 7:01 am (#2259 of 2916)
Probably Hermione could have touched on the subject of Harry with Ginny. Hermione NEEDS to know EVERYTHING.
Smiling happily..:-D And.. Girls talk about their latest crushes to each other. Another imagination. If Ginny talks about her crush, I think Hermione should talk about her one. It is fair, isn't it?
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 7:03 am (#2260 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yup, probably. But I doubt Ginny would tell anyone.
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The One - Sep 3, 2004 9:03 am (#2261 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I do not know how sensetive thu subject Harry is between the two girls. But at one point Ginny was dating Corner and Hermione was dating Krum. Would boys be a safe subject then?
But note that we do not really know what Ginny have said about her feelings for Harry. She have told Hermione about Michael, but is Hermiones assesment of Ginny's feelings for Harry something Ginny said, or something Hermione concludes from the fact that Ginny is dating Michael?
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 10:39 am (#2262 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Ginny was only dating Krum after she met him at the Yule Ball, and I thought it was only Rita that said Krum was dating Hermione. Their GF summer would have not revolved around the two boys.
I would imagine Hermione was told by Ginny that "she was over him". Hermione would jump to conclusions about people's feelings.
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 3, 2004 11:05 am (#2263 of 2916)
What? Hang on, when did Ginny date Krum?
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The One - Sep 3, 2004 11:06 am (#2264 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Ginny was only dating Krum after she met him at the Yule Ball, and I thought it was only Rita that said Krum was dating Hermione.
I suppose that you mean Ginny dating Corner.
But as for Hermione dating Krum we do not know. But: He dated her for the Yule Ball. Two months late she is the one he will miss the most. It seems strange that it would be so if nothing happened in between. Three months after there Krum confronts Harry with: "Hermione speaks about you all the time" A strange thing to say if Krum and Hermione have not spent some time together in between.
And if Hermione did not see her relationship with Krum as romantic, she should have been rather shocked by being chosen as hostage and by Krum's declaration of love by the lake. If she did not see the relationship as romantic, she would have set matters straight when she was finished cheering Harry. (But with an inexperienced 14 year old girl facing an older boy, you never know.)
Hermione seems surprised that Krums comes to say goodbye in the end of GoF, so by then the romance seems to be over. My take is that he comes to speak of keeping in toch as friends, and that this conversation is the background for the letter written in OotP, but this is guesswork, as is most of this post.
My conclusion: Miss Granger and Mr Krum was dating from the Yule Ball until some time after 24. may, but broke up at some time between then and the end of the school year. They are now just friends.
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 11:13 am (#2265 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Well said, The One.
And yes, I did mean Corner.
After a re-read of PA, I'm starting to see lots of H/Hr moments. For example when the Fat Lady gets attacked by Sirius, Hermione grabs Harry's arm. But all books after that, R/Hr is the obvious one.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 3, 2004 8:14 pm (#2266 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Prongs, You won't find the H/Hr evidence directly from the books. You have to pay attention to the slightest of interactions between them.
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Time Traveler - Sep 3, 2004 10:49 pm (#2267 of 2916)
But note that we do not really know what Ginny have said about her feelings for Harry. She have told Hermione about Michael, but is Hermiones assesment of Ginny's feelings for Harry something Ginny said, or something Hermione concludes from the fact that Ginny is dating Michael? --- The One
I would imagine Hermione was told by Ginny that "she was over him". Hermione would jump to conclusions about people's feelings. --- Prongs
When she talked about Ginny's date with Corner, she said it all very definitely, I think. It seems like she was just passing Ginny's words on to Harry.. "I used to fancy Harry, but I gave up on him (...). Not that I don't like him, of course." :-) At least, Hermione should have been heard about Corner from Ginny's own mouth..
"Ginny used to fancy Harry, but she gave up on him months ago. Not that she doesn't like you, of course," nearly the last of Ch. 16
This(the Hogsmead weekend) was the first weekend in October's and she said Ginny had given up on Harry months ago. I wonder how long these months are? The Yule Ball was on last Christmas, so there are about whole 9~10 months between.. I ask this question again. "When exactly did Ginny start to talk to Harry?"
This may not be very important, but I also guess Hermoine and Ginny became as close friends as now during the summer vacation in Grimmauld place. So, when did they talked about Harry, or Corner? While they were writing letters to Mike and Vicky, or Harry? This is really confusing and I'm very curious about this..:-)
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total hatred - Sep 4, 2004 2:37 am (#2268 of 2916)
I agree that Mione relationship with Krum is not romantic. In my opinion, Mione befriended Krum for academic reasons and in order for her to gauge up Krum capabilities. Remember that it was during the Triwizards Cup. She can make adjustments to Harry's battle plan in order to compensate for Krum's strength and weaknesses
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Hermy-own - Sep 4, 2004 3:52 am (#2269 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
I am also very curious about this, Time Traveler, it's a shame it's all very vague. The books are written from Harry's point of view and this makes it difficult (impossible?) to know exactly what Ginny and Hermione have been discussing regarding their love lives.
Having said that, if we knew ALL the answers this thread would be obsolete, so may the speculation continue...
EDIT
total hatred: I don't recall Hermione giving Harry any advice that she might have extracted from Krum. I remember her bugging him about solving the egg and also teaching him a variety of spells in a classroom but I'm sure that was out of her own knowledge and good will, not Krum's.
I think Hermione was flattered by the fact that Krum found her attractive. She also probably doubted that Ron (or anyone else) would have asked her to the ball so agreed to go with Krum. Besides, she must have thought he was a nice guy, why else would she have kept in contact with him? (I hear R/Hr 'shippers whispering: "to make Ron jealous" )
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Chris. - Sep 4, 2004 9:12 am (#2270 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
total hatred, I disagree with you on some points. I don't think she was taking sides when she became friends with Krum. She was making friends with someone of a different nationality and upbringing, which Hermione would find interesting as her knowledge of other Wizarding schools is limited due to their secrecy.
Krum may have went with Hermione for her looks, I don't know but her intelligence was quite "appealling" to Krum, perhaps. I don't think Hermione knew what was actually wrong with Ron up until the start of the Hogwarts pupils asking each other to the Ball. He started to get jealous of anyone who took an interest in Hermione. She finally realised how much he fancied her after the Yule Ball. I don't know if she liked him before that too, but definately in OP I think she was attracted to him, over Harry. Hope that makes sense.
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The One - Sep 4, 2004 10:17 am (#2271 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
After a re-read of PA, I'm starting to see lots of H/Hr moments. For example when the Fat Lady gets attacked by Sirius, Hermione grabs Harry's arm. But all books after that, R/Hr is the obvious one.
It is always funny to see how people reads the books differently. After GoF I found the relationship issue a little ambiguous, but OotP is for me very much a H/Hr book
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Time Traveler - Sep 4, 2004 10:21 pm (#2272 of 2916)
He started to get jealous of anyone who took an interest in Hermione. --- Prongs
Prongs, just a small question. Has anyone but Viktor taken an interest in Hermione *apparently*? I don't remember anyone else.. Ok, there WAS Neville if I can count him in, but Ron didn't seem to be jealous or complaining of him. (Ok, is this because he doesn't think Neville can be a rival to him? Or because he was just refused by Hermione?)
Oops! I just realized Neville's taste! He asked to Hermione, then Ginny. Both are very daring and brave, aren't they? Well, both are very kind to Neville, I know.:-)
BTW, about what made Krum interested in Hermione, I agree with someone who wrote that it was Hermione's somewhat indifference to him. I think that probably made her unlike other girls. Hah, this is interesting. JKR said girls like bad guys, and *her* boys like indifferent girls? (See Cho and Fleur..)
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 12:55 am (#2273 of 2916)
I wouldn't call Cho or Fleur indifferent. Cho likes Harry. She even tells him so. But neither of them can stop being completely tongue-tied and awkward around the other, and there are emotional issues that they can't deal with very well, so the relationship goes nowhere. And Fleur... well, if every last member of the gender you prefer fell head over heels for you on sight, then you would have to be indifferent to most of them, wouldn't you? It just wouldn't be possible to give all of them the time of day, let alone whatever else they want. She's evidently not indifferent to Bill. We know nothing about what their courtship's been like, so maybe she likes him because he doesn't treat her like just a pretty object. Maybe he's less dumbstruck by her beauty than other men, and likes her for her personality. Really, it would take something new and different (other than just being wowed by her beauty) to get someone as sought after as Fleur. Which I think is why Krum likes Hermione: she's different from the others and doesn't care about him being a Quidditch star.
Edit: I just saw someone else on this thread point out that Bill was not much taken with Fleur's veela charm. So yes, he's new and different--and rather indifferent.
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Time Traveler - Sep 5, 2004 1:23 am (#2274 of 2916)
Maddest Dragon! I absolutely agree with you.:-)
But the thing is, I didn't mean that Cho or Fleur is always indifferent to every other boys. I talked about the early time when Harry and Ron started to feel interested in them. When Harry found Cho attractive first, and when Ron found Fleur attractive first, Cho and Fleur were just nobody to them. The boys didn't know about what kind of people the girls were. And vice versa. (Well, Cho must have known Harry, but not personally, did she?) Absolutely, things had changed since then, but still, the first crush was from the boys.:-) I meant that.
Oh, and.. as you know, I don't blame the girls on for their indifference to Harry or Ron or Viktor. And I don't blame Harry on his refusal to go dance with other girls around the Yule Ball. It's not any flaw or fault at all.:-)
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 10:55 am (#2275 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Maddest Dragon, Time Traveler, what exactly do you want to convey in the last couple of posts? I admit that it was a complete bouncer to me. Prongs, have you ever kept the same avatar for an entire week? Every time I log in, I see a different one. BTW, has anyone seen DripPan lately on any of the threads? Now, he was the one I loved arguing with.
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 10:58 am (#2276 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I thought I was the one you loved to argue with.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:19 am (#2277 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, Star Crossed, if you want the entire list, here's the people I love arguing with the most: DripPan, S.E. Jones, Green Eyes, Star Crossed, Lady Nagini (anyone remember her?) and Prongs.
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 11:22 am (#2278 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Of course I remember snake! And yay, I made the cut! *dances*
To keep this on topic, who thinks DD might be married? Does he have kids? Grandkids? Great grand kids?
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:25 am (#2279 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I think there was a theory floating about DD being Lily's relative. Not that I believed it of course. And then some one proposed a theory saying DD was married to some member of Order. (The one LV killed personally) I don't believe that either.
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 11:27 am (#2280 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
DD sort of reminds me of Mr. Feeny, the one in the old episodes where he was never married, never had kids, but always wished he did, so he taught instead.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:31 am (#2281 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Who's Mr Feeney?
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 11:33 am (#2282 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A teacher on Boy Meets World, well, one of the four teachers ever mentioned in eight years. He's the most known out of the four though.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:37 am (#2283 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Mmmm. *completely confused*
Hey, any one thought of a Crookshanks/Mrs Norris 'Ship?
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Kasse - Sep 5, 2004 1:17 pm (#2284 of 2916)
LOL Tornado, I doubt the crookshanks would be interested in Mrs Norris, I think crookshanks is far to intelligent for Mrs Norris. While we are on the topic of animals how about Pig and Hedgewig - on second thought I doubt that would work either
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 1:40 pm (#2285 of 2916)
As long as you guys are on the subject, why not find a nice lady hippogriff for Buckbeak?
And, Star Crossed, I kind of wonder about all the Hogwarts teachers. We never see any indication that any of them are married, ever have been, ever aspire to be (except possibly Hagrid's courtship of Mme Maxime), or have ever had any children. Is Hogwarts some sort of co-ed monastery/convent? Is forgoing marriage and family a requirement for teaching there? If not, why haven't their spouses or families ever been mentioned? Surely, if you get that many adults in the same room, all of whom have been allowed to marry and/or have children, some of them will have done so. Very curious....
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The One - Sep 5, 2004 3:07 pm (#2286 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
JKR has stated (I think) that some of the teachers are married, and that we will learn more about that later.
But when...?
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 3:39 pm (#2287 of 2916)
Maddest, I noticed the same thing and posted on it awhile back and then someone, The One I think, said what The One posted above. It is interesting that the only living couple is the Weaslys. Maybe thats why the wizarding race is small. They don't do the marry and have kids thing. I can't wait to find out who is married to whom in future books if the rumor is true.
And on the subject of Mrs. Norris, why Mrs? Is she married to something?
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Chris. - Sep 5, 2004 4:04 pm (#2288 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yay! I feel so special, I'm on Tornedo's arguing list! I don't keep changing my avatars... well, maybe a little.
I don't think Dumbledore is married, but McGonagall is a different matter. I suspect she had a husband in VW1 and he was lost in action.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 5:28 pm (#2289 of 2916)
McGonagall? Really? She struck me as the confirmed spinster type, someone who would be quite content with staying single. Dumbledore... hard to say. If he ever had a wife, she's probably dead; I don't see how she could be alive and not have been mentioned by now. Or he might have never married at all.
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True Love - Sep 5, 2004 6:16 pm (#2290 of 2916)
I think the reason we haven't seen any spouses yet (of the teachers) is because this is written from the kids point of view and if you recall, it was never something kids really thought about. I am sure we have all encountered a teacher outside of school when we were young(at the mall, movie theatre or carnival) and were totally surprised when we saw they had a spouse and kids too. Heck, they were almost human.
I believe someone did an essay on how adults are portrayed in each book. How teachers are seen in each book follows the same train of thought. Now that the kids are older they are starting to see the teachers as more than one dimensional so we may start seeing more adult relationships.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 6:48 pm (#2291 of 2916)
I still think it is odd that we don't know who is married. I know teachers that I have had always have pictures of their family on their desk and talk about them often. Back when this came up the possibility of McGonagoll being married came up. If her husband died it would add a tragic wrinkle to her character. The same for DD, if he ever was married, she has to be dead or we would have heard about her by now. (Unless she went crazy and he keeps her the attic like in Jane Eyre). Unless they're married to each other ya never know... ; )
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 7:19 pm (#2292 of 2916)
Sure, many of us never knew about our teachers' spouses or families--but we didn't live with our teachers. The Hogwarts staff all live at Hogwarts. If they had spouses and/or children, surely their whole families would live there, too.
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Paulus Maximus - Sep 5, 2004 7:21 pm (#2293 of 2916)
"(Unless she went crazy and he keeps her the attic like in Jane Eyre)"
You can't get much crazier than Peeves, and Dumbledore doesn't keep HIM in the attic...
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Time Traveler - Sep 6, 2004 4:49 am (#2294 of 2916)
Tornedo, in my last post, I was talking about the tendency of boys in Potterverse to fall in love with unknown girls (thus, rather indifferent to them). Viktor/Hermione, Harry/Cho, Ron/Fleur, and maybe James/Lily, too? :-) But, this is not rare for a boy or a girl in reality, too. I just find it interesting because JKR said she worried about girls' having a crush on bad guys. Of course, unknown girls don't mean bad girls, but.. somehow it sounds not very wise, you know..
Anyway, Maddest Dragon, good point. The Hogwarts staff all live at Hogwarts. If they had spouses and/or children, surely their whole families would live there, too.
This is the most confusing fact about staffs' marriage life to me. When Harry feels sick or something, McGonagall comes in a hurry in her pajamas. So, she must sleep in one of the room of the castle and if she has a family, she probablly sleeps with her family, so.. (BTW, where do they sleep?)
So far, we believe we've never met any family member of staffs at Hogwarts. Then, IMO we have only 2 choices. 1. They married with each other.(Of course, only some of them.) 2. They married with house-elves? Sorry.:-(
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True Love - Sep 6, 2004 6:23 am (#2295 of 2916)
Maybe they only hire "single" teachers or those willing to live away from their families during the school year. Maybe not all the teachers live at the school full time - once they leave the grounds they can apartat (sorry, can't remember the spelling) back home.
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thetheatre62442 - Sep 6, 2004 8:00 am (#2296 of 2916)
I think it was a good idea (sorry I can't remember who said it) that McGonagall was married, but then her husband died in VW1. It would explain why she is so strict, but then at sometimes gets teas in her eyes. (AKA the part in COS where Ron and Harry are trying to sneak to Moaning Myrtle's, get caught and then tell McG that they are going to see Hermione. She gets a bit choked up.) I think it's a brilliant theory, and it could be right since JKR said that some of the teachers are married. (She said that right? Oh dear my memory is failing me...)
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hellocello3200 - Sep 6, 2004 9:25 am (#2297 of 2916)
Maddest, I am trying to say that it is odd that we don't know who is married to whom. I think that only the single teachers live at Hogwarts. Just a sidenote, if Hagrid marries Madame Maxime, would he move in with her and leave Hogwarts? I can't see her leaving her position as headmistress to live in a hut.
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Eponine - Sep 6, 2004 9:34 am (#2298 of 2916)
I don't think the two of them could fit in that hut!
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The One - Sep 6, 2004 10:31 am (#2299 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Back to the JKR-quote I mentioned a few posts ago. I did not recall it exactly:
Sheila McCleary - Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses?
Good question - yes, a few of them but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why.
What this is supposed to mean I do not know, but there you are.
I found it at:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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hellocello3200 - Sep 6, 2004 12:07 pm (#2300 of 2916)
Lets see "restricted" wonder what that means. Maybe their spouse are like the books in the restricted section and scream if you talk to them. On a serious note, maybe the hubbies of the professors keep a low profile to stay out of danger if their spouse is involved in the Order.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Let it snow!
Upulwan: And frankly, Ginny developing over two books into a possible partner for Harry seems much less likely given where she stands now, than a Harry/Hermione relationship which already has a solid foundation to go a step further in a very convincing manner. Repeating after The One again, for H/G, I ask, "why?"
I'm not a H/G 'shipper. I can't personally see it. However, I believet the original topic was "whether Harry/Ginny is a possibility." Considering the degree of change we saw from GoF to OotP, it isn't unrealistic to imagine that JKR could continue this degree of change in HBP as well. As for H/Hr having a strong foundation, again this is a personal opinion. From a R/Hr 'shipper point of view, I would argue that R/Hr are the only two to have a strong foundation laid out in the pages of the series. As a H/Hr 'shipper, you would argue otherwise. As a R/Hr 'shipper, I would say this disqualifies Hermione from a possible relationship with Harry and so would look for others to take up that spot, if Harry will indeed have a 'ship, and would argue, therefore, that Ginny is the character we know best outside the Trio, near their age, and to whom Harry shares some connections. This, in my view, makes her a possibility. Not necessarily a probability, but definately a possibility.... Again, it's all a matter of personal perspective.
RuthJ: This also counters the ideas some have posted about H/R/HR's friendship losing its strength as the books progress.
As someone who has mentioned this, I'd like to point out that I never said their friendship was losing strength, simply that Harry was being distanced from them so as to rely more on himself and others outside the Trio. I think this is an important aspect of the books, for Harry to broaden his range of friends and allies. However, the Trio's friendship will always continue to strength as long as they know each other, care for each other, go through crisis after crisis together, and as long as nothing acts to drive a permanent wedge between them.
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Hermy-own - Sep 2, 2004 5:37 pm (#2252 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Yet again, well said Sarah!
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hellocello3200 - Sep 2, 2004 6:10 pm (#2253 of 2916)
The One, what I'm trying to say is that there is little pointing to a H/Hr ship in the books but many people (Myself included) would like to see a H/Hr ship and search for anything that might support thier theory.
As for H/G. I think that is possible but I think we will have to wait until more of Ginny's character is revealed.
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RuthJ - Sep 2, 2004 6:12 pm (#2254 of 2916)
...Harry was being distanced from them so as to rely more on himself and others outside the Trio. Good point, Sarah. And now that you've mentioned it, I look back at PS/SS and CoS, in which most--if not all--of their adventures were together, vs. GoF, and to a lesser degree OotP, where he's by himself more often.
I was thinking more of the the Trio's abilities in magic and their emotional states: just as Harry could never have gotten through the MoM without Ron and Hermione (and Ginny and Neville and Luna), I'm sure he won't get through HBP w/o them, especially with the death of Sirius.
...as long as nothing acts to drive a permanent wedge between them. If there's any one thing that could create this wedge, I think it could be Harry becoming introverted and closed-off in dealing w/ his grief for Sirius. (Just like he stopped talking to everyone at Christmas when they all heard Moody say Voldemort was possessing him.) He will need his friends more than ever, which is another reason I lean against the H/Hr 'ship theory; he's got enough problems as it is, and creating a romance with one of his best friends will, I believe, only add to his stress & confusion (although I know H/Hr 'shippers will argue that a romance w/ Hr will help him cope). :sigh: these debates about 'ships are really just going in circles.
Edit: hellocello, I agree that we'll have to wait for more info about a H/G 'ship. If Harry spends a lot of time w/ G during the summer, something may develop; on the other hand, their 'ship could become more fraternal.
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The One - Sep 2, 2004 10:57 pm (#2255 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
The One, what I'm trying to say is that there is little pointing to a H/Hr ship in the books but many people (Myself included) would like to see a H/Hr ship and search for anything that might support their theory.
And this is where I loose you. IMHO there are a lot of clues that either points towards H/Hr or are deliberately placed there by the author in order to distract her readers. The fact (again IMHO) that the characters Harry/Hermione is written as a better match than Ron/Hermione is one of them, hence my reaction to your post.
These clues seem to me to be the real thing, while the Ron/Hermione clues (once again IMHO) very much have the look and feel of JKR using the good old “bickering couple” cliché as a diversion.
The only problem I see is that the clues mostly points to Hermione->Harry, and much less to Harry->Hermione. This is usually explained by Harry’s crush on Cho, and may (or may not) change when Cho is no longer an issue.
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Upulwan - Sep 3, 2004 4:36 am (#2256 of 2916)
THANK you, The One, I was sitting here practically exploding with an answer to that one about there not being pointers for H/Hr, but you made it there first!
I for one didn't start off 'wanting' to see a Harry/Hermione relationship, I just kind of found it impossible to ignore the signs after a certain point in the books. And there I was minding my own business, not even looking for a ship...
Sarah, (by the way I like arguing with you because your expressions are very succint
) the 'pointers' are just that, and very deliberately so, and given JKR's style I think she's 'pointing' in a direction different to her real intentions, distracting attention from what's right under our noses (H/Hr) until such moment as it suits her to reveal it. Of course this is personal opinion and I don't lay claim to reading JKR's mind (oh what wouldn't I give..) I could go on at length, quoting and referring to evidence in the books, but like someone said, this is rather endless, isn't it? And The One, I'm sure there are lots more than just three of us putting up camp for H/Hr, it's just that those R/Hr roadsigns are rather too distracting...
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Time Traveler - Sep 3, 2004 6:02 am (#2257 of 2916)
Hi, here comes another H/Hr shipper.
This post is from only my curiosity, so there's no canon evidence or clue. So, if you don't like, just move on. There's something that has bothered me.. How did Hermione get to know about Ginny's change of mind? (about Harry, of course.) Oh, I think she probably heard directly from Ginny, but exactly how? Some other questions about Ginny. When did she start to talk to Harry, I think never before the OoP? And when did Ginny and Hermione become so close friends?:-)
Anyway, to the first question again. 2 possible guesses. 1. Ginny confessed her *abruptly*. 2. Was it Hermione who first asked about Harry? I've imagined about what the scene was like.. It's very interesting.
(I'm not a good narrater, so I won't give you my fictional lines. In fact, I tried it but it's not going very well.) In my 1st imagine, what I'm thinking about is what made Ginny say things like "I gave up on Harry." A girl says to another girl, "Hey, I don't like him any more." To me, this sounds like "But, what about you?" Ha ha.. Sorry, this is really far-fetched.:-)
About the 2nd guess, I find it very odd that Hermione saying "Ginny, you don't seem to care about Harry much.." Somehow I am very sure that she said this with brisk and businesslike tone. LOL
Sorry, but whenever I imagine about this hidden scene, I just feel some tension of Hermione. BTW, do you have any idea about Hermione and Ginny? I really want to know what kind of things they are talking when they are off-screen. I think they probably talk about hmm, more girl things?:-) Please give me an Extendable Ear!
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 6:24 am (#2258 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I would imagine Harry and Ginny became friends over the GF summer. They were all at the Burrow, and I'm sure they kept each other company. Hermione doesn't seem to have friends, in Gryffindor, of her own age, like Lavender or Parvati. Girls talk about their latest crushes to each other. It's a common thing. Ginny probably told Hermione herself.
Probably Hermione could have touched on the subject of Harry with Ginny. Hermione NEEDS to know EVERYTHING. Maybe a game of Truth and Dare? Who knows...
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Time Traveler - Sep 3, 2004 7:01 am (#2259 of 2916)
Probably Hermione could have touched on the subject of Harry with Ginny. Hermione NEEDS to know EVERYTHING.
Smiling happily..:-D And.. Girls talk about their latest crushes to each other. Another imagination. If Ginny talks about her crush, I think Hermione should talk about her one. It is fair, isn't it?
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 7:03 am (#2260 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yup, probably. But I doubt Ginny would tell anyone.
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The One - Sep 3, 2004 9:03 am (#2261 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
I do not know how sensetive thu subject Harry is between the two girls. But at one point Ginny was dating Corner and Hermione was dating Krum. Would boys be a safe subject then?
But note that we do not really know what Ginny have said about her feelings for Harry. She have told Hermione about Michael, but is Hermiones assesment of Ginny's feelings for Harry something Ginny said, or something Hermione concludes from the fact that Ginny is dating Michael?
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 10:39 am (#2262 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Ginny was only dating Krum after she met him at the Yule Ball, and I thought it was only Rita that said Krum was dating Hermione. Their GF summer would have not revolved around the two boys.
I would imagine Hermione was told by Ginny that "she was over him". Hermione would jump to conclusions about people's feelings.
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 3, 2004 11:05 am (#2263 of 2916)
What? Hang on, when did Ginny date Krum?
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The One - Sep 3, 2004 11:06 am (#2264 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Ginny was only dating Krum after she met him at the Yule Ball, and I thought it was only Rita that said Krum was dating Hermione.
I suppose that you mean Ginny dating Corner.
But as for Hermione dating Krum we do not know. But: He dated her for the Yule Ball. Two months late she is the one he will miss the most. It seems strange that it would be so if nothing happened in between. Three months after there Krum confronts Harry with: "Hermione speaks about you all the time" A strange thing to say if Krum and Hermione have not spent some time together in between.
And if Hermione did not see her relationship with Krum as romantic, she should have been rather shocked by being chosen as hostage and by Krum's declaration of love by the lake. If she did not see the relationship as romantic, she would have set matters straight when she was finished cheering Harry. (But with an inexperienced 14 year old girl facing an older boy, you never know.)
Hermione seems surprised that Krums comes to say goodbye in the end of GoF, so by then the romance seems to be over. My take is that he comes to speak of keeping in toch as friends, and that this conversation is the background for the letter written in OotP, but this is guesswork, as is most of this post.
My conclusion: Miss Granger and Mr Krum was dating from the Yule Ball until some time after 24. may, but broke up at some time between then and the end of the school year. They are now just friends.
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Chris. - Sep 3, 2004 11:13 am (#2265 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Well said, The One.
And yes, I did mean Corner.
After a re-read of PA, I'm starting to see lots of H/Hr moments. For example when the Fat Lady gets attacked by Sirius, Hermione grabs Harry's arm. But all books after that, R/Hr is the obvious one.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 3, 2004 8:14 pm (#2266 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Prongs, You won't find the H/Hr evidence directly from the books. You have to pay attention to the slightest of interactions between them.
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Time Traveler - Sep 3, 2004 10:49 pm (#2267 of 2916)
But note that we do not really know what Ginny have said about her feelings for Harry. She have told Hermione about Michael, but is Hermiones assesment of Ginny's feelings for Harry something Ginny said, or something Hermione concludes from the fact that Ginny is dating Michael? --- The One
I would imagine Hermione was told by Ginny that "she was over him". Hermione would jump to conclusions about people's feelings. --- Prongs
When she talked about Ginny's date with Corner, she said it all very definitely, I think. It seems like she was just passing Ginny's words on to Harry.. "I used to fancy Harry, but I gave up on him (...). Not that I don't like him, of course." :-) At least, Hermione should have been heard about Corner from Ginny's own mouth..
"Ginny used to fancy Harry, but she gave up on him months ago. Not that she doesn't like you, of course," nearly the last of Ch. 16
This(the Hogsmead weekend) was the first weekend in October's and she said Ginny had given up on Harry months ago. I wonder how long these months are? The Yule Ball was on last Christmas, so there are about whole 9~10 months between.. I ask this question again. "When exactly did Ginny start to talk to Harry?"
This may not be very important, but I also guess Hermoine and Ginny became as close friends as now during the summer vacation in Grimmauld place. So, when did they talked about Harry, or Corner? While they were writing letters to Mike and Vicky, or Harry? This is really confusing and I'm very curious about this..:-)
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total hatred - Sep 4, 2004 2:37 am (#2268 of 2916)
I agree that Mione relationship with Krum is not romantic. In my opinion, Mione befriended Krum for academic reasons and in order for her to gauge up Krum capabilities. Remember that it was during the Triwizards Cup. She can make adjustments to Harry's battle plan in order to compensate for Krum's strength and weaknesses
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Hermy-own - Sep 4, 2004 3:52 am (#2269 of 2916)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
I am also very curious about this, Time Traveler, it's a shame it's all very vague. The books are written from Harry's point of view and this makes it difficult (impossible?) to know exactly what Ginny and Hermione have been discussing regarding their love lives.
Having said that, if we knew ALL the answers this thread would be obsolete, so may the speculation continue...
EDIT
total hatred: I don't recall Hermione giving Harry any advice that she might have extracted from Krum. I remember her bugging him about solving the egg and also teaching him a variety of spells in a classroom but I'm sure that was out of her own knowledge and good will, not Krum's.
I think Hermione was flattered by the fact that Krum found her attractive. She also probably doubted that Ron (or anyone else) would have asked her to the ball so agreed to go with Krum. Besides, she must have thought he was a nice guy, why else would she have kept in contact with him? (I hear R/Hr 'shippers whispering: "to make Ron jealous" )
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Chris. - Sep 4, 2004 9:12 am (#2270 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
total hatred, I disagree with you on some points. I don't think she was taking sides when she became friends with Krum. She was making friends with someone of a different nationality and upbringing, which Hermione would find interesting as her knowledge of other Wizarding schools is limited due to their secrecy.
Krum may have went with Hermione for her looks, I don't know but her intelligence was quite "appealling" to Krum, perhaps. I don't think Hermione knew what was actually wrong with Ron up until the start of the Hogwarts pupils asking each other to the Ball. He started to get jealous of anyone who took an interest in Hermione. She finally realised how much he fancied her after the Yule Ball. I don't know if she liked him before that too, but definately in OP I think she was attracted to him, over Harry. Hope that makes sense.
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The One - Sep 4, 2004 10:17 am (#2271 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
After a re-read of PA, I'm starting to see lots of H/Hr moments. For example when the Fat Lady gets attacked by Sirius, Hermione grabs Harry's arm. But all books after that, R/Hr is the obvious one.
It is always funny to see how people reads the books differently. After GoF I found the relationship issue a little ambiguous, but OotP is for me very much a H/Hr book
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Time Traveler - Sep 4, 2004 10:21 pm (#2272 of 2916)
He started to get jealous of anyone who took an interest in Hermione. --- Prongs
Prongs, just a small question. Has anyone but Viktor taken an interest in Hermione *apparently*? I don't remember anyone else.. Ok, there WAS Neville if I can count him in, but Ron didn't seem to be jealous or complaining of him. (Ok, is this because he doesn't think Neville can be a rival to him? Or because he was just refused by Hermione?)
Oops! I just realized Neville's taste! He asked to Hermione, then Ginny. Both are very daring and brave, aren't they? Well, both are very kind to Neville, I know.:-)
BTW, about what made Krum interested in Hermione, I agree with someone who wrote that it was Hermione's somewhat indifference to him. I think that probably made her unlike other girls. Hah, this is interesting. JKR said girls like bad guys, and *her* boys like indifferent girls? (See Cho and Fleur..)
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 12:55 am (#2273 of 2916)
I wouldn't call Cho or Fleur indifferent. Cho likes Harry. She even tells him so. But neither of them can stop being completely tongue-tied and awkward around the other, and there are emotional issues that they can't deal with very well, so the relationship goes nowhere. And Fleur... well, if every last member of the gender you prefer fell head over heels for you on sight, then you would have to be indifferent to most of them, wouldn't you? It just wouldn't be possible to give all of them the time of day, let alone whatever else they want. She's evidently not indifferent to Bill. We know nothing about what their courtship's been like, so maybe she likes him because he doesn't treat her like just a pretty object. Maybe he's less dumbstruck by her beauty than other men, and likes her for her personality. Really, it would take something new and different (other than just being wowed by her beauty) to get someone as sought after as Fleur. Which I think is why Krum likes Hermione: she's different from the others and doesn't care about him being a Quidditch star.
Edit: I just saw someone else on this thread point out that Bill was not much taken with Fleur's veela charm. So yes, he's new and different--and rather indifferent.
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Time Traveler - Sep 5, 2004 1:23 am (#2274 of 2916)
Maddest Dragon! I absolutely agree with you.:-)
But the thing is, I didn't mean that Cho or Fleur is always indifferent to every other boys. I talked about the early time when Harry and Ron started to feel interested in them. When Harry found Cho attractive first, and when Ron found Fleur attractive first, Cho and Fleur were just nobody to them. The boys didn't know about what kind of people the girls were. And vice versa. (Well, Cho must have known Harry, but not personally, did she?) Absolutely, things had changed since then, but still, the first crush was from the boys.:-) I meant that.
Oh, and.. as you know, I don't blame the girls on for their indifference to Harry or Ron or Viktor. And I don't blame Harry on his refusal to go dance with other girls around the Yule Ball. It's not any flaw or fault at all.:-)
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 10:55 am (#2275 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Maddest Dragon, Time Traveler, what exactly do you want to convey in the last couple of posts? I admit that it was a complete bouncer to me. Prongs, have you ever kept the same avatar for an entire week? Every time I log in, I see a different one. BTW, has anyone seen DripPan lately on any of the threads? Now, he was the one I loved arguing with.
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 10:58 am (#2276 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I thought I was the one you loved to argue with.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:19 am (#2277 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Well, Star Crossed, if you want the entire list, here's the people I love arguing with the most: DripPan, S.E. Jones, Green Eyes, Star Crossed, Lady Nagini (anyone remember her?) and Prongs.
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 11:22 am (#2278 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Of course I remember snake! And yay, I made the cut! *dances*
To keep this on topic, who thinks DD might be married? Does he have kids? Grandkids? Great grand kids?
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:25 am (#2279 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
I think there was a theory floating about DD being Lily's relative. Not that I believed it of course. And then some one proposed a theory saying DD was married to some member of Order. (The one LV killed personally) I don't believe that either.
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 11:27 am (#2280 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
DD sort of reminds me of Mr. Feeny, the one in the old episodes where he was never married, never had kids, but always wished he did, so he taught instead.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:31 am (#2281 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Who's Mr Feeney?
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Star Crossed - Sep 5, 2004 11:33 am (#2282 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A teacher on Boy Meets World, well, one of the four teachers ever mentioned in eight years. He's the most known out of the four though.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 5, 2004 11:37 am (#2283 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
Mmmm. *completely confused*
Hey, any one thought of a Crookshanks/Mrs Norris 'Ship?
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Kasse - Sep 5, 2004 1:17 pm (#2284 of 2916)
LOL Tornado, I doubt the crookshanks would be interested in Mrs Norris, I think crookshanks is far to intelligent for Mrs Norris. While we are on the topic of animals how about Pig and Hedgewig - on second thought I doubt that would work either
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 1:40 pm (#2285 of 2916)
As long as you guys are on the subject, why not find a nice lady hippogriff for Buckbeak?
And, Star Crossed, I kind of wonder about all the Hogwarts teachers. We never see any indication that any of them are married, ever have been, ever aspire to be (except possibly Hagrid's courtship of Mme Maxime), or have ever had any children. Is Hogwarts some sort of co-ed monastery/convent? Is forgoing marriage and family a requirement for teaching there? If not, why haven't their spouses or families ever been mentioned? Surely, if you get that many adults in the same room, all of whom have been allowed to marry and/or have children, some of them will have done so. Very curious....
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The One - Sep 5, 2004 3:07 pm (#2286 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
JKR has stated (I think) that some of the teachers are married, and that we will learn more about that later.
But when...?
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 3:39 pm (#2287 of 2916)
Maddest, I noticed the same thing and posted on it awhile back and then someone, The One I think, said what The One posted above. It is interesting that the only living couple is the Weaslys. Maybe thats why the wizarding race is small. They don't do the marry and have kids thing. I can't wait to find out who is married to whom in future books if the rumor is true.
And on the subject of Mrs. Norris, why Mrs? Is she married to something?
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Chris. - Sep 5, 2004 4:04 pm (#2288 of 2916)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Yay! I feel so special, I'm on Tornedo's arguing list! I don't keep changing my avatars... well, maybe a little.
I don't think Dumbledore is married, but McGonagall is a different matter. I suspect she had a husband in VW1 and he was lost in action.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 5:28 pm (#2289 of 2916)
McGonagall? Really? She struck me as the confirmed spinster type, someone who would be quite content with staying single. Dumbledore... hard to say. If he ever had a wife, she's probably dead; I don't see how she could be alive and not have been mentioned by now. Or he might have never married at all.
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True Love - Sep 5, 2004 6:16 pm (#2290 of 2916)
I think the reason we haven't seen any spouses yet (of the teachers) is because this is written from the kids point of view and if you recall, it was never something kids really thought about. I am sure we have all encountered a teacher outside of school when we were young(at the mall, movie theatre or carnival) and were totally surprised when we saw they had a spouse and kids too. Heck, they were almost human.
I believe someone did an essay on how adults are portrayed in each book. How teachers are seen in each book follows the same train of thought. Now that the kids are older they are starting to see the teachers as more than one dimensional so we may start seeing more adult relationships.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 6:48 pm (#2291 of 2916)
I still think it is odd that we don't know who is married. I know teachers that I have had always have pictures of their family on their desk and talk about them often. Back when this came up the possibility of McGonagoll being married came up. If her husband died it would add a tragic wrinkle to her character. The same for DD, if he ever was married, she has to be dead or we would have heard about her by now. (Unless she went crazy and he keeps her the attic like in Jane Eyre). Unless they're married to each other ya never know... ; )
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 5, 2004 7:19 pm (#2292 of 2916)
Sure, many of us never knew about our teachers' spouses or families--but we didn't live with our teachers. The Hogwarts staff all live at Hogwarts. If they had spouses and/or children, surely their whole families would live there, too.
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Paulus Maximus - Sep 5, 2004 7:21 pm (#2293 of 2916)
"(Unless she went crazy and he keeps her the attic like in Jane Eyre)"
You can't get much crazier than Peeves, and Dumbledore doesn't keep HIM in the attic...
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Time Traveler - Sep 6, 2004 4:49 am (#2294 of 2916)
Tornedo, in my last post, I was talking about the tendency of boys in Potterverse to fall in love with unknown girls (thus, rather indifferent to them). Viktor/Hermione, Harry/Cho, Ron/Fleur, and maybe James/Lily, too? :-) But, this is not rare for a boy or a girl in reality, too. I just find it interesting because JKR said she worried about girls' having a crush on bad guys. Of course, unknown girls don't mean bad girls, but.. somehow it sounds not very wise, you know..
Anyway, Maddest Dragon, good point. The Hogwarts staff all live at Hogwarts. If they had spouses and/or children, surely their whole families would live there, too.
This is the most confusing fact about staffs' marriage life to me. When Harry feels sick or something, McGonagall comes in a hurry in her pajamas. So, she must sleep in one of the room of the castle and if she has a family, she probablly sleeps with her family, so.. (BTW, where do they sleep?)
So far, we believe we've never met any family member of staffs at Hogwarts. Then, IMO we have only 2 choices. 1. They married with each other.(Of course, only some of them.) 2. They married with house-elves? Sorry.:-(
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True Love - Sep 6, 2004 6:23 am (#2295 of 2916)
Maybe they only hire "single" teachers or those willing to live away from their families during the school year. Maybe not all the teachers live at the school full time - once they leave the grounds they can apartat (sorry, can't remember the spelling) back home.
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thetheatre62442 - Sep 6, 2004 8:00 am (#2296 of 2916)
I think it was a good idea (sorry I can't remember who said it) that McGonagall was married, but then her husband died in VW1. It would explain why she is so strict, but then at sometimes gets teas in her eyes. (AKA the part in COS where Ron and Harry are trying to sneak to Moaning Myrtle's, get caught and then tell McG that they are going to see Hermione. She gets a bit choked up.) I think it's a brilliant theory, and it could be right since JKR said that some of the teachers are married. (She said that right? Oh dear my memory is failing me...)
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hellocello3200 - Sep 6, 2004 9:25 am (#2297 of 2916)
Maddest, I am trying to say that it is odd that we don't know who is married to whom. I think that only the single teachers live at Hogwarts. Just a sidenote, if Hagrid marries Madame Maxime, would he move in with her and leave Hogwarts? I can't see her leaving her position as headmistress to live in a hut.
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Eponine - Sep 6, 2004 9:34 am (#2298 of 2916)
I don't think the two of them could fit in that hut!
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The One - Sep 6, 2004 10:31 am (#2299 of 2916)
Open minded sceptic
Back to the JKR-quote I mentioned a few posts ago. I did not recall it exactly:
Sheila McCleary - Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses?
Good question - yes, a few of them but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why.
What this is supposed to mean I do not know, but there you are.
I found it at:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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hellocello3200 - Sep 6, 2004 12:07 pm (#2300 of 2916)
Lets see "restricted" wonder what that means. Maybe their spouse are like the books in the restricted section and scream if you talk to them. On a serious note, maybe the hubbies of the professors keep a low profile to stay out of danger if their spouse is involved in the Order.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 6, 2004 1:54 pm (#2301 of 2916)
If their spouse is involved in the Order? First, the Order is a new (or at least recently revived) thing. That wouldn't have been a reason for the spouses to keep a low profile since the first book. And how their existence being known to their spouses' students, most of whom wouldn't know about their teacher being in the Order in the first place, would be a threat doesn't make any sense. Not to mention the fact that the only professors we know to be in the Order are McGonagall, Dumbledore, and Snape.
Also, Sheila McCleary didn't ask JKR if any of the professors were currently married--she asked if any of them have ever had spouses (emphasis mine). Maybe teaching at Hogwarts is only for the widowed, divorced, and never-married. Perhaps this is a tradition going back to the Middle Ages, when higher education was the province of nuns, monks, and priests (who sometimes were widows or widowers).
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hellocello3200 - Sep 6, 2004 3:06 pm (#2302 of 2916)
Maybe your right about the un-married thing. I heard that the one-room school house teachers of the 1800's and early nineteen hundreds (females) couldn't be seen in the company of a man after certain hours, couldn't marry while they had the job and a bunch of other things that teachers today can do.
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Magika - Sep 7, 2004 2:25 pm (#2303 of 2916)
But the books take place in the late 1900s, don't they...?
By 'restricted', I believe that she means it's simply not the students' business whether their teachers are married or not. I like the theory of McGonnagal's husband being killed in VW1. I think Snape is unmarried, Flitwich might be married. DD is definately single (at the moment, at least). Trelawney - SINGLE! Sprout... I dunno.
I've been wondering for some time now. How come none of the characters have been curious about this??
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Star Crossed - Sep 7, 2004 2:58 pm (#2304 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, I'm a school student, and normally, I couldn't care less if my teachers are married or not. However, we often find out whether or not if our teachers are married, just by the way they talk. For example, last year, my English teacher would talk at least once a day about her husband and how they lived in England. I tried imagining any of the professors doing that, but so far, I can only see Sprout revealing her love life.
"Oh, yes, now be sure to cover it with plenty of dirt. My husband didn't, and, well, I'm still feeding him potions."
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Kasse - Sep 7, 2004 3:09 pm (#2305 of 2916)
lol Star Crossed I can see it too!
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hellocello3200 - Sep 7, 2004 6:31 pm (#2306 of 2916)
I agree with Star Crossed that it is odd that the teachers haven't mentioned spouses. Someone on another thread noted that some of the teachers are present at Christmas dinners while some are not. Perhaps those absent are at home with families. I guess it is possible that they are not married but visiting parents siblings etc though.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 7, 2004 11:03 pm (#2307 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
lol Star Crossed. Frankly speaking, even I don't care about my teacher's love-lives. But, everyone, in my school knows which teacher is married and who is not. School gossips. And I'm rather surprised that there aren't any at Hogwarts.
BTW I've recently noticed that it is Mrs Figg, not Miss Figg. Meaning she is married. I wonder who her husband was. A wizard or a Squib? And is he dead? Perhaps in the WW1? Any Ideas?
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S.E. Jones - Sep 7, 2004 11:28 pm (#2308 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I understand that "Mrs." is a title also given to women who are "past the marrying age" and confirmed spinsters (i.e. an older woman), not only married women. If that's the case here, it doesn't have to mean she's married....
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 8, 2004 7:04 am (#2309 of 2916)
I've never heard that Sarah. Its my understanding that Mrs. means "the wife of" and always denotes a married or widowed woman. I also just discovered that before "Ms." it could be used to refer to a divorcee. It was hard to find something really authoritative. (Its too early for my brain to put together search terms apparently.) But, here's a site anyway:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So, if we assume that "Mrs." is being used in the traditional context, Mrs. Figg is a widow. (Is there a canon reference that calls her a "spinster"?)
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Catherine - Sep 8, 2004 7:21 am (#2310 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
So, if we assume that "Mrs." is being used in the traditional context, Mrs. Figg is a widow. (Is there a canon reference that calls her a "spinster"?) --Loopy Lupin
Not unless JKR has said so in a chat. I seem to remember that Mrs. Figg gave her name to the Wizengamot as "Arabrella Doreen Figg."
When I read OoP, I assumed that Doreen was her "middle" name and not a maiden name. But that was before this discussion.
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Ladybug220 - Sep 8, 2004 9:12 am (#2311 of 2916)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Well, I know several women who dropped their maiden last names and kept their middle names with the new last names. However, I only know a few of them so Mrs Figg was probably never married.
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Eponine - Sep 8, 2004 9:19 am (#2312 of 2916)
From what my husband has told me, keeping your maiden name as a middle name seems to be mostly a Southern tradition. He had a lot of friends from up North who didn't keep their maiden names as middle names. My mother didn't, and she's from New York. Of course, I could be completely wrong on it being a Southern thing.
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Catherine - Sep 8, 2004 9:24 am (#2313 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Thanks for the insights, Eponine and Ladybug.
I had not realized, until this discussion about Mrs. Figg's name, that there were such wide cultural differences.
**has a Forum-loving moment**
Where else but on the Forum can we have such interesting questions and answers?
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KWeldon - Sep 8, 2004 10:51 am (#2314 of 2916)
I'm from Texas, and none of my friends have kept their maiden names as middle names, but my sister-in-law from Louisiana did. I would guess that Mrs. Figg was married before.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 8, 2004 11:08 am (#2315 of 2916)
In England, is there any tradition of an older woman being addressed as "Mrs," married or not? It seems like most of us posting on this subject are Americans. I think Mrs. Figg was probably never married because her full name is Arabella Doreen Figg, no maiden name mentioned, and because she said so when her parentage was under question. If Figg were the name of a deceased husband, she would have probably said, "Arabella Doreen Figg, nee ____," or, "I was born Arabella Doreen ____." I know that, in Spanish speaking countries, a middle aged or older woman is properly addressed as Senora, whether or not she has ever been married, and, in French speaking countries, the same woman would be called Madame, both of which get translated into English as Mrs. So is there a similar tradition in England that hasn't carried over to America?
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S.E. Jones - Sep 8, 2004 12:41 pm (#2316 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Maddest Dragon: In England, is there any tradition of an older woman being addressed as "Mrs," married or not?
I know that, in Spanish speaking countries, a middle aged or older woman is properly addressed as Senora, whether or not she has ever been married, and, in French speaking countries, the same woman would be called Madame, both of which get translated into English as Mrs. So is there a similar tradition in England that hasn't carried over to America?
I actually heard that (that an unmarried woman can be addressed as "Mrs") when we were on the EZboards. The remark was then backed up by several other members, so I'm assuming it is an English tradition that hasn't carried over.
EDIT: I stand corrected, it wasn't a British member who told me that:
zelmia
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Women who reach a certain age are referred to or called "Mrs." whether or not they were ever married. Though it is meant to be a mark of respect, if she is old enough to be a Mrs. (even if there is no "Mr.") a woman may find that it's a bit of a reminder that her youthful glow is rapidly fading. Think of Pasty Stone's (Absolutely Fabulous) insistence that she is a "Mademoiselle."
SarahEJones
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Quote:
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Women who reach a certain age are referred to or called "Mrs." whether or not they were ever married.
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Um, where is that a custom? Well, other than in France, I mean. In the US, it's "Ms.". We only use the "Mrs." title if you are married. It goes: young girl=Miss, woman=Ms., married woman=Mrs... I don't know of any variation here. I'm assuming it's the same in Britian but I'll leave that to our friends in the British Isles to answer.
Jesspy
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I had teachers at primary school that were Ms. they were a mixture of old and young feminists. But as Ms is difficult to say for children and we were so used to calling everyone else Mrs we just called them Mrs.
There is a cultural assumption is most western societies that all women get married thus it is not an insult to be called Mrs after a certain age. I am sure now we are living in the age of the defacto relationship that this age will get pushed back as the baby boomers age (they are turning 60 soon).
W J
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Okay, last Off Topic post here - I prefer "Ms." because it is no one's business if I am married or not. I think that is a common sentiment in many women my age that grew up in the "I Am Woman" era (and if you don't know that song, you are way younger than me. )
Now, having said that, "Mrs." is deemed a respectful term of address for women who are considered "spinsters", as well as married women and some women may not like the term "Ms.". This is more true in the UK, I think.
So this tells us that we cannot be certain that Mrs. Figg is a widow or just never married. I don't think it matters either way for the plot.
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 8, 2004 2:27 pm (#2317 of 2916)
Think of Pasty Stone's (Absolutely Fabulous) insistence that she is a "Mademoiselle."--zelmia
Hehe. This is exactly what I was thinking of.
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Dr Filibuster - Sep 8, 2004 4:05 pm (#2318 of 2916)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
I'm British, have worked in a bank for nearly 20 years, opened thousands of accounts, seen millions of names.
I haven't heard of any woman formally/officially given the title "Mrs" if she has always been a spinster. Sometimes people assume an older lady is a Mrs not a Miss but none of our customers have been offended. I guess 90 year old Miss Smith is used to it.
If Miss Smith got married to Mr Brown and wanted us to still call her Miss Smith, then that's fine. I suppose that means a Mrs can be a Miss but a Miss can't be a Mrs.
It is not customary UK practise to retain a maiden name as a middle name. I can only think of one example. Occasionally we see a hyphenated (double-barrelled) surname for a wife: especially if she had a very unusual family name before marraige.
On rare occasions I saw very old ladies with male middle names (their father's Christian name). I was told it was a tradition.
Ok, to get back on topic......I think Mrs Figg is a widow and I want to read about her background. I want to know about Mr Figg. She's a squib, Figgy-in-the-middle of two cultures. There would have been certain pressures if she had married a muggle or a wizard.
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timrew - Sep 8, 2004 4:24 pm (#2319 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Let's not forget the most famous old lady in English fiction, Miss Marples.
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haymoni - Sep 8, 2004 4:24 pm (#2320 of 2916)
Is it possible that she is not a "Mrs." at all?
Maybe it was easier for her to live as a Muggle and watch out for Harry with "Mrs." in her name. She could say she was a widow - no questions about her family or how she makes a living.
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Catherine - Sep 8, 2004 4:31 pm (#2321 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Haymoni's "Is it possible that she is not a "Mrs." at all? " question has merit.
I've read many a novel where someone pretends to be a widow to gain social acceptance. The gloss of marriage provides respectability and social acceptance.
On the other hand, Madams in houses of ill-repute a
If their spouse is involved in the Order? First, the Order is a new (or at least recently revived) thing. That wouldn't have been a reason for the spouses to keep a low profile since the first book. And how their existence being known to their spouses' students, most of whom wouldn't know about their teacher being in the Order in the first place, would be a threat doesn't make any sense. Not to mention the fact that the only professors we know to be in the Order are McGonagall, Dumbledore, and Snape.
Also, Sheila McCleary didn't ask JKR if any of the professors were currently married--she asked if any of them have ever had spouses (emphasis mine). Maybe teaching at Hogwarts is only for the widowed, divorced, and never-married. Perhaps this is a tradition going back to the Middle Ages, when higher education was the province of nuns, monks, and priests (who sometimes were widows or widowers).
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hellocello3200 - Sep 6, 2004 3:06 pm (#2302 of 2916)
Maybe your right about the un-married thing. I heard that the one-room school house teachers of the 1800's and early nineteen hundreds (females) couldn't be seen in the company of a man after certain hours, couldn't marry while they had the job and a bunch of other things that teachers today can do.
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Magika - Sep 7, 2004 2:25 pm (#2303 of 2916)
But the books take place in the late 1900s, don't they...?
By 'restricted', I believe that she means it's simply not the students' business whether their teachers are married or not. I like the theory of McGonnagal's husband being killed in VW1. I think Snape is unmarried, Flitwich might be married. DD is definately single (at the moment, at least). Trelawney - SINGLE! Sprout... I dunno.
I've been wondering for some time now. How come none of the characters have been curious about this??
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Star Crossed - Sep 7, 2004 2:58 pm (#2304 of 2916)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Well, I'm a school student, and normally, I couldn't care less if my teachers are married or not. However, we often find out whether or not if our teachers are married, just by the way they talk. For example, last year, my English teacher would talk at least once a day about her husband and how they lived in England. I tried imagining any of the professors doing that, but so far, I can only see Sprout revealing her love life.
"Oh, yes, now be sure to cover it with plenty of dirt. My husband didn't, and, well, I'm still feeding him potions."
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Kasse - Sep 7, 2004 3:09 pm (#2305 of 2916)
lol Star Crossed I can see it too!
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hellocello3200 - Sep 7, 2004 6:31 pm (#2306 of 2916)
I agree with Star Crossed that it is odd that the teachers haven't mentioned spouses. Someone on another thread noted that some of the teachers are present at Christmas dinners while some are not. Perhaps those absent are at home with families. I guess it is possible that they are not married but visiting parents siblings etc though.
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Sir Tornado - Sep 7, 2004 11:03 pm (#2307 of 2916)
Rebel without a cause.
lol Star Crossed. Frankly speaking, even I don't care about my teacher's love-lives. But, everyone, in my school knows which teacher is married and who is not. School gossips. And I'm rather surprised that there aren't any at Hogwarts.
BTW I've recently noticed that it is Mrs Figg, not Miss Figg. Meaning she is married. I wonder who her husband was. A wizard or a Squib? And is he dead? Perhaps in the WW1? Any Ideas?
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S.E. Jones - Sep 7, 2004 11:28 pm (#2308 of 2916)
Let it snow!
I understand that "Mrs." is a title also given to women who are "past the marrying age" and confirmed spinsters (i.e. an older woman), not only married women. If that's the case here, it doesn't have to mean she's married....
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 8, 2004 7:04 am (#2309 of 2916)
I've never heard that Sarah. Its my understanding that Mrs. means "the wife of" and always denotes a married or widowed woman. I also just discovered that before "Ms." it could be used to refer to a divorcee. It was hard to find something really authoritative. (Its too early for my brain to put together search terms apparently.) But, here's a site anyway:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
So, if we assume that "Mrs." is being used in the traditional context, Mrs. Figg is a widow. (Is there a canon reference that calls her a "spinster"?)
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Catherine - Sep 8, 2004 7:21 am (#2310 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
So, if we assume that "Mrs." is being used in the traditional context, Mrs. Figg is a widow. (Is there a canon reference that calls her a "spinster"?) --Loopy Lupin
Not unless JKR has said so in a chat. I seem to remember that Mrs. Figg gave her name to the Wizengamot as "Arabrella Doreen Figg."
When I read OoP, I assumed that Doreen was her "middle" name and not a maiden name. But that was before this discussion.
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Ladybug220 - Sep 8, 2004 9:12 am (#2311 of 2916)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Well, I know several women who dropped their maiden last names and kept their middle names with the new last names. However, I only know a few of them so Mrs Figg was probably never married.
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Eponine - Sep 8, 2004 9:19 am (#2312 of 2916)
From what my husband has told me, keeping your maiden name as a middle name seems to be mostly a Southern tradition. He had a lot of friends from up North who didn't keep their maiden names as middle names. My mother didn't, and she's from New York. Of course, I could be completely wrong on it being a Southern thing.
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Catherine - Sep 8, 2004 9:24 am (#2313 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Thanks for the insights, Eponine and Ladybug.
I had not realized, until this discussion about Mrs. Figg's name, that there were such wide cultural differences.
**has a Forum-loving moment**
Where else but on the Forum can we have such interesting questions and answers?
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KWeldon - Sep 8, 2004 10:51 am (#2314 of 2916)
I'm from Texas, and none of my friends have kept their maiden names as middle names, but my sister-in-law from Louisiana did. I would guess that Mrs. Figg was married before.
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Maddest Dragon - Sep 8, 2004 11:08 am (#2315 of 2916)
In England, is there any tradition of an older woman being addressed as "Mrs," married or not? It seems like most of us posting on this subject are Americans. I think Mrs. Figg was probably never married because her full name is Arabella Doreen Figg, no maiden name mentioned, and because she said so when her parentage was under question. If Figg were the name of a deceased husband, she would have probably said, "Arabella Doreen Figg, nee ____," or, "I was born Arabella Doreen ____." I know that, in Spanish speaking countries, a middle aged or older woman is properly addressed as Senora, whether or not she has ever been married, and, in French speaking countries, the same woman would be called Madame, both of which get translated into English as Mrs. So is there a similar tradition in England that hasn't carried over to America?
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S.E. Jones - Sep 8, 2004 12:41 pm (#2316 of 2916)
Let it snow!
Maddest Dragon: In England, is there any tradition of an older woman being addressed as "Mrs," married or not?
I know that, in Spanish speaking countries, a middle aged or older woman is properly addressed as Senora, whether or not she has ever been married, and, in French speaking countries, the same woman would be called Madame, both of which get translated into English as Mrs. So is there a similar tradition in England that hasn't carried over to America?
I actually heard that (that an unmarried woman can be addressed as "Mrs") when we were on the EZboards. The remark was then backed up by several other members, so I'm assuming it is an English tradition that hasn't carried over.
EDIT: I stand corrected, it wasn't a British member who told me that:
zelmia
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Women who reach a certain age are referred to or called "Mrs." whether or not they were ever married. Though it is meant to be a mark of respect, if she is old enough to be a Mrs. (even if there is no "Mr.") a woman may find that it's a bit of a reminder that her youthful glow is rapidly fading. Think of Pasty Stone's (Absolutely Fabulous) insistence that she is a "Mademoiselle."
SarahEJones
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Quote:
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Women who reach a certain age are referred to or called "Mrs." whether or not they were ever married.
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Um, where is that a custom? Well, other than in France, I mean. In the US, it's "Ms.". We only use the "Mrs." title if you are married. It goes: young girl=Miss, woman=Ms., married woman=Mrs... I don't know of any variation here. I'm assuming it's the same in Britian but I'll leave that to our friends in the British Isles to answer.
Jesspy
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I had teachers at primary school that were Ms. they were a mixture of old and young feminists. But as Ms is difficult to say for children and we were so used to calling everyone else Mrs we just called them Mrs.
There is a cultural assumption is most western societies that all women get married thus it is not an insult to be called Mrs after a certain age. I am sure now we are living in the age of the defacto relationship that this age will get pushed back as the baby boomers age (they are turning 60 soon).
W J
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Okay, last Off Topic post here - I prefer "Ms." because it is no one's business if I am married or not. I think that is a common sentiment in many women my age that grew up in the "I Am Woman" era (and if you don't know that song, you are way younger than me. )
Now, having said that, "Mrs." is deemed a respectful term of address for women who are considered "spinsters", as well as married women and some women may not like the term "Ms.". This is more true in the UK, I think.
So this tells us that we cannot be certain that Mrs. Figg is a widow or just never married. I don't think it matters either way for the plot.
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Loopy Lupin - Sep 8, 2004 2:27 pm (#2317 of 2916)
Think of Pasty Stone's (Absolutely Fabulous) insistence that she is a "Mademoiselle."--zelmia
Hehe. This is exactly what I was thinking of.
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Dr Filibuster - Sep 8, 2004 4:05 pm (#2318 of 2916)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
I'm British, have worked in a bank for nearly 20 years, opened thousands of accounts, seen millions of names.
I haven't heard of any woman formally/officially given the title "Mrs" if she has always been a spinster. Sometimes people assume an older lady is a Mrs not a Miss but none of our customers have been offended. I guess 90 year old Miss Smith is used to it.
If Miss Smith got married to Mr Brown and wanted us to still call her Miss Smith, then that's fine. I suppose that means a Mrs can be a Miss but a Miss can't be a Mrs.
It is not customary UK practise to retain a maiden name as a middle name. I can only think of one example. Occasionally we see a hyphenated (double-barrelled) surname for a wife: especially if she had a very unusual family name before marraige.
On rare occasions I saw very old ladies with male middle names (their father's Christian name). I was told it was a tradition.
Ok, to get back on topic......I think Mrs Figg is a widow and I want to read about her background. I want to know about Mr Figg. She's a squib, Figgy-in-the-middle of two cultures. There would have been certain pressures if she had married a muggle or a wizard.
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timrew - Sep 8, 2004 4:24 pm (#2319 of 2916)
Middle-aged Harry Potter fan
Let's not forget the most famous old lady in English fiction, Miss Marples.
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haymoni - Sep 8, 2004 4:24 pm (#2320 of 2916)
Is it possible that she is not a "Mrs." at all?
Maybe it was easier for her to live as a Muggle and watch out for Harry with "Mrs." in her name. She could say she was a widow - no questions about her family or how she makes a living.
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Catherine - Sep 8, 2004 4:31 pm (#2321 of 2916)
Canon Seeker
Haymoni's "Is it possible that she is not a "Mrs." at all? " question has merit.
I've read many a novel where someone pretends to be a widow to gain social acceptance. The gloss of marriage provides respectability and social acceptance.
On the other hand, Madams in houses of ill-repute a