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Log inHP6: the Half Blood Prince (28 Jun 04 - 14 Mar 05)
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1201 to 1250)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:10 am
riddikulus - Aug 3, 2004 7:42 am (#1201 of 2923)
I think Harry should be angrier. All the stuff he's been through... you'd think he'd be a flippin wreck... going off, all over the place. But he's in more control than you'd think. I notice boys seem to let go of things, easier than girls do.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 3, 2004 8:39 am (#1202 of 2923)
I agree with Riddikulus that Harry is far too normal. I will comment as a teenage boy that letting go of things is not really that much easier compared to the girls I know, however.
I don't see how Harry is so angry at all. Right now it's been a few days since he resulted in the death of his father figure, and he's feeling guilty and not wanting to talk about it. A few minutes afterward Harry was demolishing things - but if I were Harry, I think I'd be actively plotting to take down Voldemort myself...
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Madame Librarian - Aug 3, 2004 11:25 am (#1203 of 2923)
Speaking from a way older perspective I remember knowing teens of all persuasions--angry, ditzy, too mature (i.e., snooty or nerdy), oblivious to it all, and on and on. Harry is typical of so many teens that age that he's surely well within the continuum of behavior. What amazes me is how relatively OK he is considering all the stuff he's going through that most of his peers never have to deal with. In addition to everyone keeping secrets from him, his "Boy Who Lived" status, people suspecting him of lying and even murder, the awful treatment at the Dursleys, throw in a fair amount of out and out pain (his scar) and this weird sleep deprivation (which is admissable in most courts, for heaven sakes, as a defense against many criminal acts), and we all should be flat out astounded that the kid can put two rational thoughts or actions together.
Obviously JKR cannot have her hero (who has to last at least 2 more books) go completely ballistic, he still has to retain some of the original good Harry, the sweet Harry, the innocent Harry. But she can put the poor kid through all kinds of hell, and she can have him push the envelope in terms of rebellion, anger, acting out (what an awful term) and totally rash behavior. Compared to some, he's still quite normal. Hooray, Harry!
Ciao. Barb
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 3, 2004 1:05 pm (#1204 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Edited by Aug 3, 2004 1:09 pm
It's been a while since I've posted: moving overseas will do that!
Anyway, I think it could well be Tom Riddle. Doesn't make much sense for it to be the present-day LV, as Harry's close encounters with him have been the main story of all previous books but PoA. If it was present-day LV it would be like saying "Harry Potter and the Cntral Villain From All Previous Harry Potter Books".
As to plot, I think Bellatrix Lestrange will be a major figure this time. Harry will want revenge for Sirius, plus there was her reaction to discovering that LV is half-blooded during the MoM battle.
Just my two knuts!
Love the avatar, TGF! Is that a certain hairball-suffering cat from Shrek 2?
Edit: Seems I've been gone so long I've forgotten how to write coherent posts too! I was, of course, referring to TGF's initial thought on who the Half-Blood Prince is! Sorry! And now to catch up on all those posts I've missed...
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 3, 2004 1:10 pm (#1205 of 2923)
It's not Riddle - JKR has said so herself on her website.
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 3, 2004 3:26 pm (#1206 of 2923)
I was pleased to see in OP that Harry was beginning to get a bit sassy with being treated like a "mushroom". It showed that he was beginning to find himslef a bit.
However, I agree that he still has a LOT of 'dealing' to do and, in his present circumstances, how will he possibly be able to do that? It's difficult enough for kids to handle regular day-to-day life as a teen in many cases.
By all rights, I would not be surprised to see Harry turning up at Hogwarts next year sporting a Purple mohawk and a dozen body piercings and suede robes! How about Harry Potter, the Goth Prince?!?
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 3, 2004 4:46 pm (#1207 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Bravo Madam Librarian wish I could have put it together the way you did.
Mikie
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penguin patronus - Aug 3, 2004 5:02 pm (#1208 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
I'm saying that the Half-blood prince is Godric Gryffindor, and Harry is the heir! Cheers!
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 3, 2004 5:03 pm (#1209 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I agree. Nice and simple does the trick.
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Hollywand - Aug 3, 2004 5:06 pm (#1210 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Adolescence is a great backdrop for the discussion or treatment of ethics. The childhood issues are still fresh, the adult dreams lie ahead, the hormones are kicking in....most people get to some interesting territory.
A thought on Harry's hissy fit at the end. It was an act of strength and love on Dumbledore's part to allow Harry to do destroy the instruments. The Dursleys have always placed material things way above Harry's importance, and commanded Harry to stifle his desires. Dumbldore is strong enough to withstand Harry's angry grieving at the contradictions of life, and show his own vulnerabilty. To my mind, it's a real act of heroism on Dumbledore's part, and shows Harry that nothing is really made better by destruction---a key lesson for later, I bet. Besides, the truth was really too terrible to tell to an eleven year old.
And then, after Harry leaves, Albus just picks up his wand and says: "REPARO" ;-) And they all live most wizardly ever after.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 3, 2004 7:04 pm (#1211 of 2923)
Goth Harry - might be interesting, and actually him having a "dark phase" doesn't seem unlikely.
But, this is not the right thread...
And one more comment on Dumbledore - psychologically, Dumbledore made a mistake. The "punching bag" theory has been disproven - it actually increases anger.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 3, 2004 9:42 pm (#1212 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Once again Hollywand, right on target! :-; Great Minds Think Alike...
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Thom Matheson - Aug 4, 2004 11:01 am (#1213 of 2923)
Ok here I go. My how thin this limb is way out here. The HBP will be revealed as.......(drum roll), Victor Krum. Joining with HRH to fight off the darkness to come.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 4, 2004 11:05 am (#1214 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Mmmmm. I don't know. JKR said somewhere that Victor would make another appearence, but I'm not sure if there is enough clues for him. Perhaps you have spotted some more
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Inappropriate Goat Charm - Aug 4, 2004 2:50 pm (#1215 of 2923)
There is another discovery made in COS that everyone seems to be overlooking. I have now convinced myself that the Half Blood Prince is none other than... Argus Filch!!! Early on in the story, Harry accidently discovers Filch's dirty secret, and it is mentioned twice afterwards, once when Ron laughs about it, and again when Filch blames the trio for the petrification of Mrs. Norris. JK has said that someone will learn magic later in life, and while I have always believed it would be a Dursley, it seems the only way Filch could be the late learner is if he was given a much larger role in the books. Considering how ridiculously underqualified Filch is to clean a giant castle by himself (a wizard could easily scourgify or evanesco all the messes away, while he must use manual labor), it is possible that Filch is just living off the family name. Maybe now we can find out what is really going on with squibs and cats
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 4, 2004 5:03 pm (#1216 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Goat Charm- JKR has said (as I have previously posted) that the discovery in CoS does not relate to who the HBP is. So if the discovery made in CoS is the fact that Filch is a squib (which it very well could be), Filch will not be the HBP. The "discovery" and the character of the HBP are completely seperate things and do not relate. All traces of the HBP storyline were removed form CoS. So Filch learning magic could not be the HBP storyline, because thhe discovery that he is a squib is a trace of that storyline. So good thought on the "discovery" but the HBP would be someone else.
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penguin patronus - Aug 4, 2004 6:14 pm (#1217 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
I'm sorry but I really, really feel that the HBP is Godric Gryffindor. I have said that before on this thread, but I thought I should say it again. I have tons of reasons too that Harry is the heir. I even had a strange dream telling me that. ...uh, but, I...anyways, There are so many things that lead me to this. First of all, there was really a person named Godric. Except he was saint Godric, and he always was depicted with a stag at his side, (think about the stag part!) he also was good with animals. ( think of buckbeak when Harry tried to gain his trust to ride him, and he got it on his first try. ECT.) There are also a lot of other things, but I'm afraid if I list them all, this post may get very boring. Cheers!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 7:58 pm (#1218 of 2923)
Rebel without a cause.
I must ask you something; does Half-Blood Prince have to be an Individual? It's likely that HBP is just a concept. Knowing JKR; that's how it's probably going to be.
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Ann - Aug 4, 2004 8:02 pm (#1219 of 2923)
Penguin Patronus (what a great name, by the way--very evocative), have you looked at the essay connecting Godric Gryffindor with Harry? The link is
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Anyway, you'll find it interesting.
I think you (and many others) are right about the HBP. Gryffindor's history seems exactly the sort of thing that JK might have put in CoS and then removed without harm to the major plot lines.
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Hollywand - Aug 4, 2004 8:46 pm (#1220 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Right. It could be the history of why Godric was chosen by his people because he was so well loved.
I can't help thinking of Lady Diana Spencer who became known as "The People's Princess" because of her works against land mines, children's welfare. She was from the loftiest of bloodlines, and a chosen virgin by the Queen Mother, and should have been seen as aloof and royal. But, succeeded in winning the hearts of ordinary people with her generous works. No small feat; she overcame a very cynical stereotype about royals.
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remiden - Aug 4, 2004 10:32 pm (#1221 of 2923)
Wandless Wizard, just because you learn something about Filch in CoS, does not mean that he could not be the HBP. She says that the link between Cos and Book does not have anything to do with who the HBP is, but that is all she says. It is very possible that Filch being a squib has nothing to do with him being the HBP. Filch could be the HBP, and the link she is referring to has nothing to do with him at all. She also says that she removed all traces of the HBP storyline. Not that she removed the HBP himself.
I think that Rowling has in fact given us a clue as to who the HBP is in her reply. It would seem to me that the Half Blood Prince is definately a character in Chamber of Secrets, or she would have said that she removed him. She has stated that she has removed whole characters from a book (the Weasley's cousin in GoF), but in this case, she specifically states that she removed the HBP storyline. She has given hints on her site that she words thing very carefully (her reply to the prophecy), and I think this is one of those times. It would have been much easier for her to simply say, "I removed him from CoS." I think that filch is a very good guess, and it may very possibly be that him being a squib has nothing to do with the HBP storyline, thus the link she is referring to is something else in itself.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 4, 2004 11:59 pm (#1222 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
remiden, I believe you misunderstood me, or more likely, I wasn't very clear. What I meant was that if Filch is the HBP, the "discovery" JKR mentioned cannot be the fact that Filch is a Squib. If the "discovery" is that Filch is a Squib, he cannot be the HBP. Either one can be true, but not both. The original poster said that he thought it was Filch because of the discovery that he was a Squib. This cannot come into play in the HBP storyline. If it is Filch, then his magical abilities will have nothing to do with his being the HBP.
I personally think JKR meant that the HBP character is completely gone from CoS. However, that is not what she said, just a gut feeling I have. I wouldn't be shocked if I was wrong. It just seems to me that the best way to remove all aspects of a storyline is to remove the character. For example, Godric Gryffindor is a popular choice for HBP. If he is the HBP, then nothing in CoS can have anyhting to do with the HBP storyline based on JKR's quote. This includes his status as founder of the school, his relationship with Slytherin, his sword, Fawkes if he was indeed once Godric's, any mention of an heir (it would be counterpoint to the heir of Slytherin and hence related to CoS), and why he values bravery. To have a storyline centering around Gryyfindor minus these elements would feel hollow.
Than again, maybe I am taking JKR too seriously that all elements of the HBP storyline were removed.
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narisa - Aug 5, 2004 1:06 am (#1223 of 2923)
I think Filch is a possible one, but just can't see Filch disscovery 'foreshadow' anything.
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Duncan - Aug 5, 2004 1:52 pm (#1224 of 2923)
I still think is Dumbledore, and I think we are going to know him a lot better in the next book
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Ozymandias - Aug 5, 2004 2:47 pm (#1225 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Wandless, again we differ, though I'm smart enough not to bring the (incorrectly remembered) quotes this time.
I see the word storyline as referring to a smaller part of the book. To me, the HBP storyline would include 1) who the HBP is, 2) how Harry interacts with him and 3) the events that occur as the result of this. So GG could still exist as we know him in CoS, and could still be the HBP, because the storyline, that is, what actually happens, is still gone from CoS. I see the information on GG that was given in CoS as backstory rather than storyline.
And I think that 'removed all traces of the HBP storyline' begs a loose interpretation. After all, Harry must be involved in the HBP storyline, and he's still in CoS. So I think that "storyline" refers to events rather than information.
PS: Sorry if this is somewhat incoherent, but I'm in a rush.
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CM1507 - Aug 5, 2004 2:57 pm (#1226 of 2923)
I thought being a squib was defined as having both magical parents, and yourself not being so.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 5, 2004 3:28 pm (#1227 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Ozy- You could be right. I said it was just a gut feeling I have. However, I go again to the quote from JKR, "...there is no trace of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'." To me that is stronger langauge than just implying she took the main elements out. The character of the HBP and his background, whether related to the title HBP or not, would be a trace of the storyline.
Let me use Hagrid as an example. He has the title "Keeper of the Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts". Now Hagrid's backstory involves him getting expelled from Hogwarts. While this does not directly relate to the title of "Keeper of keys...", you have to know about his expulsion in order to understand why he is a groundskeeper. So the title "Keeper of keys..." could have some greater meaning later, but traces of the storyline were given with the backgorund info.
Again, that is just my interpretation. We have to wait until Book 6 comes out to see what JKR meant by it.
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Kasse - Aug 6, 2004 5:56 am (#1228 of 2923)
CM1507 - you are correct, that is a squib , it is the opposite of a muggle born.
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Reading muggle - Aug 7, 2004 10:49 pm (#1229 of 2923)
Some of the posts guess that the HBP may be only a small part, but as this is the sixth of a seven-book saga, I’m guessing the HBP fits pretty directly into the war to come. It seems likely that the HBP will be someone new, as all the book titles bring us completely new subjects of the wizarding world. But given the JKR CoS hint, if I had to predict an existing character as the HBP, then it’s likely to be Colin Creevy. Why? Well even during my first read of the CoS Creevy frequented the pages with peculiar presence, yet didn’t really give anything to the CoS storyline. If Creevy is merely a surprise wizard of muggle parents (such as Granger), wouldn’t he be more interested in every aspect of Hogwarts? But instead, he seems only overly interested in the boy who lived. I think there is more to him or his brother. Could it be that he’s of British Royalty descent and is a key link to the muggle/half-blood angst that has Voldemort so fired-up? Of course that’s a little far-fetched but I see the muggle world drawn into the things to come, especially if there is a "war". If the term “prince” has any connection to the British Crown, then Creevy seems as a good guess.
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riddikulus - Aug 8, 2004 6:33 am (#1230 of 2923)
Reading Muggle: Highly doubtful. I think he's simply another character in a long list of characters that drive a story along. She specifies he's born to muggle parents... when she goes to the same lengths to talk about others being half-blooded. Seamus, Justin, HAGRID, etc.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 8, 2004 6:42 am (#1231 of 2923)
I doubt the Creevys are royalty, considering Colin says his dad is a milkman.
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True Love - Aug 8, 2004 7:09 am (#1232 of 2923)
"It seems likely that the HBP will be someone new, as all the book titles bring us completely new subjects of the wizarding world." I agree with this statement. I doubt the HBP will be any of the characters we've come across so far. I think JR will let us know fairly soon into the book and then have the continuing story of Harry vs Voldy intertwine with the HBP. The HBP will play an integral role in book 7 though, as she says both books could be written as one.
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Warty Harris - Aug 8, 2004 11:26 am (#1233 of 2923)
The discovery that is the link between Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince has nothing to do with the Half Blood Prince. So whoever one thinks the Half Blood Prince is it had nothing to do with why the two books are linked.
JKR does not say the Half Blood Prince is not in the second book. Just the storyline. So what does he discover? I would also point out that if someone thinks Hagrid or Gryffindor is the Half Blood Prince it still stands. All Harry discovers about Gryffindor is that he had a sword and that he is a true Gryffindor. All he discovers about Hagrid is that he was expelled because of Riddle. None of these things are small and both work themselves out by book six, Hagrid is exonerated and Harry realised he chose to be in Gryffindor and he should not have been in Slytherin.
So the discovery and the link have nothing to do with Hagrid and Gryffindor. They could still both be the Half Blood Prince. Let us combine the qoutes and look for something small in the movie and something he discovers in the book that may be connected to book six.
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Lunar Tides - Aug 8, 2004 5:46 pm (#1234 of 2923)
hey everyone,
I know that the half-blood prince is either the discovery or someone who is involved. (thats probably an inaccurate statement anyways...:p)
But, anyways, i was lookin at the door at JKR's amazing website and I was wondering if the stars arranged in the window make any constellations. So I looked constellations up in google and I went to a website. Out of curiosity, I also looked up "Regulus" in the stars section. Though this may already have been known, "Regulus" means "prince" or "heart of the lion."
Just thought to mention it, and I wonder if it has anythin to do w/ this topic.
Always loving criticism and correction... - Chanuel
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Archangel - Aug 9, 2004 4:48 am (#1235 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Sirius said that Regulus was killed because he was too scared to follow Voldemort's orders, right? What if it he was asked to assassinate the HBP or something big like that and he backed out? Cheers!
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Puja - Aug 9, 2004 8:11 am (#1236 of 2923)
Reading Muggle says - If the term “prince” has any connection to the British Crown, then Creevy seems as a good guess.
Colin's father is a milkman, he himself said it in CoS.
Archangel says - Sirius said that Regulus was killed because he was too scared to follow Voldemort's orders, right? What if it he was asked to assassinate the HBP or something big like that and he backed out?
Good guess archangel
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Reading muggle - Aug 9, 2004 12:11 pm (#1237 of 2923)
Puja, looney, Ridikulus: I knew about Creevy explaining the milkman bit. I'm not sure I believe it. Wouldn't bringing photos home to muggle parents be a breech of wizarding secrecy laws? How many "proud parents" aren't tempted to show pictures of there kids to muggle friends? I still need to emphasize that the HBP is most likely a new character. I just think the Creevy card is suspiciously over played with strange elements.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 9, 2004 1:07 pm (#1238 of 2923)
I believe that certain muggles are allowed to know about the magical community (such as the Prime Minister). The pictures in question aren't of Colin, if I am not mistaken. Lilly went home with "pockets full of frog spawn, turning teacups into...something or other" (not a very correct quote, but you get the idea). Her parents are muggles, as is her sister and any other possible siblings, and they are aware of the fact that there is magic. If they were to show this to their friends, some wouldn't believe them, and others would be just as trustworthy as Lilly's parents. If this makes any sense at all to you, it would explain my reasoning as to why the pictures wouldn't be a breach of security.
I would believe Colin's statement that his father is a milkman. It seemed too casual to be masking something. He is muggle-born, also, because Tom Riddle says he made Ginny set the basilisk on "four muggle-borns."
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:12 pm (#1239 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Besides, I think the "Oh, I just thought I was muggleborn, but I'm actually halfblood!" is a bit overused.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 9, 2004 3:56 pm (#1240 of 2923)
Over-used? The only instance I can think of is Dean Thomas. Am I forgetting something (though I understand if you mean it would be over-used simply because of Dean). I'm worried I'm having a memory lapse.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:59 pm (#1241 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No, only Dean, but I think once is enough. It just seems a bit tapped into Jerry Springer. Maybe it's just me though.
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Ozymandias - Aug 9, 2004 4:25 pm (#1242 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
But Dean's story hasn't been used! At least not in the books. So if Colin turned out to be a half-blood it wouldn't be repetitive.
(Not that I think Colin is anything more than he appears to be. Just throwing that out there.)
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 4:46 pm (#1243 of 2923)
Reading Muggle--I must say that I have had a hunch about Colin from the first time he was introduced in the series. He DOES have quite a starring role in things where he could just as easily been missing, don't you agree?
Also, when you really think about it, Colin has only mentioned his father as being a milkman. We know nothing about his mother. To those of you who already have your fingers on the keyboard to respond that others have referred to him as muggle-born, suppose for a moment that they, too have information only about his father. Chances are that Diary Tom got his information from Ginny. Prof. McG may also be sans the identity of Colin's mother, (or maybe she DOES know and was instructed not to divulge...hmmm...).
If this does not maek soem of you think twice, then consider when Colin's brother comes to Hogwarts. Two wizard brothers in a muggle family? And they don't seem to be bad enough at their studies to warrant notice from those teachers who point out such deficiencies, (Snape).
Here is one more tidbit that has been rolling around in my head for several weeks that refuses to find a resting place, so I offer it up to the Forum for discussion: Did Jo not mention something about duality? And did we not have quite a discussion about the hyphen in Half-Blood? Perhaps...::neck sticks WAY out::...the HBP is TWO people. Perhaps it is the combination of two half-blood, halfblood princes that will be revealed. ((OK, now you can tear me up!))
So, Reading Muggle, I will stand up next to you to defend your theory is spite of the harassment we might experience. My vote for HBP is Colin.
I regret nothing!
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 4:47 pm (#1244 of 2923)
Reading Muggle--I must say that I have had a hunch about Colin from the first time he was introduced in the series. He DOES have quite a starring role in things where he could just as easily been missing, don't you agree?
Also, when you really think about it, Colin has only mentioned his father as being a milkman. We know nothing about his mother. To those of you who already have your fingers on the keyboard to respond that others have referred to him as muggle-born, suppose for a moment that they, too have information only about his father. Chances are that Diary Tom got his information from Ginny. Prof. McG may also be sans the identity of Colin's mother, (or maybe she DOES know and was instructed not to divulge...hmmm...).
If this does not make some of you think twice, then consider when Colin's brother comes to Hogwarts. Two wizard brothers in a muggle family? And they don't seem to be bad enough at their studies to warrant notice from those teachers who point out such deficiencies, (Snape).
Here is one more tidbit that has been rolling around in my head for several weeks that refuses to find a resting place, so I offer it up to the Forum for discussion: Did Jo not mention something about duality? And did we not have quite a discussion about the hyphen in Half-Blood? Perhaps...::neck sticks WAY out::...the HBP is TWO people. Perhaps it is the combination of two half-blood, halfblood princes that will be revealed. ((OK, now you can tear me up!))
So, Reading Muggle, I will stand up next to you to defend your theory is spite of the harassment we might experience. My vote for HBP is Colin.
I regret nothing!
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 9, 2004 4:58 pm (#1245 of 2923)
I do agree that Colin (and possibly Dennis) have some hidden importance, but I think that hidden pasts are just a little too redundant. This is solely based on my gut feelings.
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 9, 2004 5:43 pm (#1246 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
A question to the forum. Did anyone else pick up on JKR's home page where she mentions that the first chapter of book six has been 13 years in the making. Since I first read it I have been wondering if she is referring to the start of her writing or was she referring to someone 13 years old. I believe that Dennis will now be 13 during book six. I also believe that the comment about something small could also refer to Dennis as he has been referred to as an extremely small boy.
MzWhizz123 & Reading Muggle, I won't go out on the limb as you have and predicted it's one of them. My hands have been ironed and my ears are scarred from the oven door, but I agree that they are possiblities.
Mikie
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 5:54 pm (#1247 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
But MickeyCee3948, Dennis wasn't in CoS. Although if it wasn't for that fact, I would say it's very interesting.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 9, 2004 6:07 pm (#1248 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
MickeyCee- I believe the quote about Chapter 1 of HBP being 13 years in the making refers to how long JKR has been working on the Harry Potter books. Chapter 1 was originally written for one of the first books (either SS or CoS), but it was removed because it did not fit. However, JKR tried to use it in every book since that one, and it still never fit. Now it finally fits in HBP, so she is finally going to use it. The chapter was written 13 years ago, but never published. That is why it is 13 years in the making. My guess (my favorite guess of many) is that it tells the complete story of that night in Godric's hollow. We weren't ready to learn the complete story until now.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 6:12 pm (#1249 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Wandless, that's a very valid observation...congrats.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 9, 2004 6:23 pm (#1250 of 2923)
MzWhizz123 Rowling did seem to want to include dennis in the OotP (especialy DA) .. she wanted to so much that she overlooked that fact that only third years could go to hosmeade and found a way to have him go to the hogshead anyways...and she did say that she took a long time with OotP because she had to put in clues so that we couldnt complain it was unfair that we had no way of seeing whatever is to come coming( souded a bit wierd huh...)I have for long been thinking that we are lokking way too nuch at CoS anyways becasue there are indeed 5 hp books and they are all bound to have clues in them...As I said before in anothe post, from J.K I expect everything, and Colin or Denis as the HBP is totaly possible. Coli aways did have a weird kind of vibe aurond the passages he popped up during CoS and one of his parents has to have something maggical about them to have TWO maggical babies...and as the HBP has to someway relate to harry, colin or Dennis could do the job.. I am not saying that I think its them or neither am I saying I dont( I realy dont know what to believe anymore, this forum just has too many good ideas and all of them seem better than the next.. if jk had ever gotten writers block all she would have had to do is read up here and the boom, problem solved)I am just saying that I dont think anyone should rule out any possibilities and all of them should be discussed(ok not all of them but most of them lol).So to me so far : colin,dennis,percy and penelopies son maybe hagrid.. anyone else?
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I think Harry should be angrier. All the stuff he's been through... you'd think he'd be a flippin wreck... going off, all over the place. But he's in more control than you'd think. I notice boys seem to let go of things, easier than girls do.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 3, 2004 8:39 am (#1202 of 2923)
I agree with Riddikulus that Harry is far too normal. I will comment as a teenage boy that letting go of things is not really that much easier compared to the girls I know, however.
I don't see how Harry is so angry at all. Right now it's been a few days since he resulted in the death of his father figure, and he's feeling guilty and not wanting to talk about it. A few minutes afterward Harry was demolishing things - but if I were Harry, I think I'd be actively plotting to take down Voldemort myself...
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Madame Librarian - Aug 3, 2004 11:25 am (#1203 of 2923)
Speaking from a way older perspective I remember knowing teens of all persuasions--angry, ditzy, too mature (i.e., snooty or nerdy), oblivious to it all, and on and on. Harry is typical of so many teens that age that he's surely well within the continuum of behavior. What amazes me is how relatively OK he is considering all the stuff he's going through that most of his peers never have to deal with. In addition to everyone keeping secrets from him, his "Boy Who Lived" status, people suspecting him of lying and even murder, the awful treatment at the Dursleys, throw in a fair amount of out and out pain (his scar) and this weird sleep deprivation (which is admissable in most courts, for heaven sakes, as a defense against many criminal acts), and we all should be flat out astounded that the kid can put two rational thoughts or actions together.
Obviously JKR cannot have her hero (who has to last at least 2 more books) go completely ballistic, he still has to retain some of the original good Harry, the sweet Harry, the innocent Harry. But she can put the poor kid through all kinds of hell, and she can have him push the envelope in terms of rebellion, anger, acting out (what an awful term) and totally rash behavior. Compared to some, he's still quite normal. Hooray, Harry!
Ciao. Barb
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 3, 2004 1:05 pm (#1204 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Edited by Aug 3, 2004 1:09 pm
It's been a while since I've posted: moving overseas will do that!
Anyway, I think it could well be Tom Riddle. Doesn't make much sense for it to be the present-day LV, as Harry's close encounters with him have been the main story of all previous books but PoA. If it was present-day LV it would be like saying "Harry Potter and the Cntral Villain From All Previous Harry Potter Books".
As to plot, I think Bellatrix Lestrange will be a major figure this time. Harry will want revenge for Sirius, plus there was her reaction to discovering that LV is half-blooded during the MoM battle.
Just my two knuts!
Love the avatar, TGF! Is that a certain hairball-suffering cat from Shrek 2?
Edit: Seems I've been gone so long I've forgotten how to write coherent posts too! I was, of course, referring to TGF's initial thought on who the Half-Blood Prince is! Sorry! And now to catch up on all those posts I've missed...
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 3, 2004 1:10 pm (#1205 of 2923)
It's not Riddle - JKR has said so herself on her website.
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 3, 2004 3:26 pm (#1206 of 2923)
I was pleased to see in OP that Harry was beginning to get a bit sassy with being treated like a "mushroom". It showed that he was beginning to find himslef a bit.
However, I agree that he still has a LOT of 'dealing' to do and, in his present circumstances, how will he possibly be able to do that? It's difficult enough for kids to handle regular day-to-day life as a teen in many cases.
By all rights, I would not be surprised to see Harry turning up at Hogwarts next year sporting a Purple mohawk and a dozen body piercings and suede robes! How about Harry Potter, the Goth Prince?!?
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 3, 2004 4:46 pm (#1207 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Bravo Madam Librarian wish I could have put it together the way you did.
Mikie
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penguin patronus - Aug 3, 2004 5:02 pm (#1208 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
I'm saying that the Half-blood prince is Godric Gryffindor, and Harry is the heir! Cheers!
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 3, 2004 5:03 pm (#1209 of 2923)
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I agree. Nice and simple does the trick.
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Hollywand - Aug 3, 2004 5:06 pm (#1210 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Adolescence is a great backdrop for the discussion or treatment of ethics. The childhood issues are still fresh, the adult dreams lie ahead, the hormones are kicking in....most people get to some interesting territory.
A thought on Harry's hissy fit at the end. It was an act of strength and love on Dumbledore's part to allow Harry to do destroy the instruments. The Dursleys have always placed material things way above Harry's importance, and commanded Harry to stifle his desires. Dumbldore is strong enough to withstand Harry's angry grieving at the contradictions of life, and show his own vulnerabilty. To my mind, it's a real act of heroism on Dumbledore's part, and shows Harry that nothing is really made better by destruction---a key lesson for later, I bet. Besides, the truth was really too terrible to tell to an eleven year old.
And then, after Harry leaves, Albus just picks up his wand and says: "REPARO" ;-) And they all live most wizardly ever after.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 3, 2004 7:04 pm (#1211 of 2923)
Goth Harry - might be interesting, and actually him having a "dark phase" doesn't seem unlikely.
But, this is not the right thread...
And one more comment on Dumbledore - psychologically, Dumbledore made a mistake. The "punching bag" theory has been disproven - it actually increases anger.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 3, 2004 9:42 pm (#1212 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Once again Hollywand, right on target! :-; Great Minds Think Alike...
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Thom Matheson - Aug 4, 2004 11:01 am (#1213 of 2923)
Ok here I go. My how thin this limb is way out here. The HBP will be revealed as.......(drum roll), Victor Krum. Joining with HRH to fight off the darkness to come.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 4, 2004 11:05 am (#1214 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Mmmmm. I don't know. JKR said somewhere that Victor would make another appearence, but I'm not sure if there is enough clues for him. Perhaps you have spotted some more
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Inappropriate Goat Charm - Aug 4, 2004 2:50 pm (#1215 of 2923)
There is another discovery made in COS that everyone seems to be overlooking. I have now convinced myself that the Half Blood Prince is none other than... Argus Filch!!! Early on in the story, Harry accidently discovers Filch's dirty secret, and it is mentioned twice afterwards, once when Ron laughs about it, and again when Filch blames the trio for the petrification of Mrs. Norris. JK has said that someone will learn magic later in life, and while I have always believed it would be a Dursley, it seems the only way Filch could be the late learner is if he was given a much larger role in the books. Considering how ridiculously underqualified Filch is to clean a giant castle by himself (a wizard could easily scourgify or evanesco all the messes away, while he must use manual labor), it is possible that Filch is just living off the family name. Maybe now we can find out what is really going on with squibs and cats
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 4, 2004 5:03 pm (#1216 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Goat Charm- JKR has said (as I have previously posted) that the discovery in CoS does not relate to who the HBP is. So if the discovery made in CoS is the fact that Filch is a squib (which it very well could be), Filch will not be the HBP. The "discovery" and the character of the HBP are completely seperate things and do not relate. All traces of the HBP storyline were removed form CoS. So Filch learning magic could not be the HBP storyline, because thhe discovery that he is a squib is a trace of that storyline. So good thought on the "discovery" but the HBP would be someone else.
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penguin patronus - Aug 4, 2004 6:14 pm (#1217 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
I'm sorry but I really, really feel that the HBP is Godric Gryffindor. I have said that before on this thread, but I thought I should say it again. I have tons of reasons too that Harry is the heir. I even had a strange dream telling me that. ...uh, but, I...anyways, There are so many things that lead me to this. First of all, there was really a person named Godric. Except he was saint Godric, and he always was depicted with a stag at his side, (think about the stag part!) he also was good with animals. ( think of buckbeak when Harry tried to gain his trust to ride him, and he got it on his first try. ECT.) There are also a lot of other things, but I'm afraid if I list them all, this post may get very boring. Cheers!
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Sir Tornado - Aug 4, 2004 7:58 pm (#1218 of 2923)
Rebel without a cause.
I must ask you something; does Half-Blood Prince have to be an Individual? It's likely that HBP is just a concept. Knowing JKR; that's how it's probably going to be.
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Ann - Aug 4, 2004 8:02 pm (#1219 of 2923)
Penguin Patronus (what a great name, by the way--very evocative), have you looked at the essay connecting Godric Gryffindor with Harry? The link is
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Anyway, you'll find it interesting.
I think you (and many others) are right about the HBP. Gryffindor's history seems exactly the sort of thing that JK might have put in CoS and then removed without harm to the major plot lines.
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Hollywand - Aug 4, 2004 8:46 pm (#1220 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Right. It could be the history of why Godric was chosen by his people because he was so well loved.
I can't help thinking of Lady Diana Spencer who became known as "The People's Princess" because of her works against land mines, children's welfare. She was from the loftiest of bloodlines, and a chosen virgin by the Queen Mother, and should have been seen as aloof and royal. But, succeeded in winning the hearts of ordinary people with her generous works. No small feat; she overcame a very cynical stereotype about royals.
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remiden - Aug 4, 2004 10:32 pm (#1221 of 2923)
Wandless Wizard, just because you learn something about Filch in CoS, does not mean that he could not be the HBP. She says that the link between Cos and Book does not have anything to do with who the HBP is, but that is all she says. It is very possible that Filch being a squib has nothing to do with him being the HBP. Filch could be the HBP, and the link she is referring to has nothing to do with him at all. She also says that she removed all traces of the HBP storyline. Not that she removed the HBP himself.
I think that Rowling has in fact given us a clue as to who the HBP is in her reply. It would seem to me that the Half Blood Prince is definately a character in Chamber of Secrets, or she would have said that she removed him. She has stated that she has removed whole characters from a book (the Weasley's cousin in GoF), but in this case, she specifically states that she removed the HBP storyline. She has given hints on her site that she words thing very carefully (her reply to the prophecy), and I think this is one of those times. It would have been much easier for her to simply say, "I removed him from CoS." I think that filch is a very good guess, and it may very possibly be that him being a squib has nothing to do with the HBP storyline, thus the link she is referring to is something else in itself.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 4, 2004 11:59 pm (#1222 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
remiden, I believe you misunderstood me, or more likely, I wasn't very clear. What I meant was that if Filch is the HBP, the "discovery" JKR mentioned cannot be the fact that Filch is a Squib. If the "discovery" is that Filch is a Squib, he cannot be the HBP. Either one can be true, but not both. The original poster said that he thought it was Filch because of the discovery that he was a Squib. This cannot come into play in the HBP storyline. If it is Filch, then his magical abilities will have nothing to do with his being the HBP.
I personally think JKR meant that the HBP character is completely gone from CoS. However, that is not what she said, just a gut feeling I have. I wouldn't be shocked if I was wrong. It just seems to me that the best way to remove all aspects of a storyline is to remove the character. For example, Godric Gryffindor is a popular choice for HBP. If he is the HBP, then nothing in CoS can have anyhting to do with the HBP storyline based on JKR's quote. This includes his status as founder of the school, his relationship with Slytherin, his sword, Fawkes if he was indeed once Godric's, any mention of an heir (it would be counterpoint to the heir of Slytherin and hence related to CoS), and why he values bravery. To have a storyline centering around Gryyfindor minus these elements would feel hollow.
Than again, maybe I am taking JKR too seriously that all elements of the HBP storyline were removed.
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narisa - Aug 5, 2004 1:06 am (#1223 of 2923)
I think Filch is a possible one, but just can't see Filch disscovery 'foreshadow' anything.
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Duncan - Aug 5, 2004 1:52 pm (#1224 of 2923)
I still think is Dumbledore, and I think we are going to know him a lot better in the next book
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Ozymandias - Aug 5, 2004 2:47 pm (#1225 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Wandless, again we differ, though I'm smart enough not to bring the (incorrectly remembered) quotes this time.
I see the word storyline as referring to a smaller part of the book. To me, the HBP storyline would include 1) who the HBP is, 2) how Harry interacts with him and 3) the events that occur as the result of this. So GG could still exist as we know him in CoS, and could still be the HBP, because the storyline, that is, what actually happens, is still gone from CoS. I see the information on GG that was given in CoS as backstory rather than storyline.
And I think that 'removed all traces of the HBP storyline' begs a loose interpretation. After all, Harry must be involved in the HBP storyline, and he's still in CoS. So I think that "storyline" refers to events rather than information.
PS: Sorry if this is somewhat incoherent, but I'm in a rush.
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CM1507 - Aug 5, 2004 2:57 pm (#1226 of 2923)
I thought being a squib was defined as having both magical parents, and yourself not being so.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 5, 2004 3:28 pm (#1227 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Ozy- You could be right. I said it was just a gut feeling I have. However, I go again to the quote from JKR, "...there is no trace of the HBP storyline in 'Chamber'." To me that is stronger langauge than just implying she took the main elements out. The character of the HBP and his background, whether related to the title HBP or not, would be a trace of the storyline.
Let me use Hagrid as an example. He has the title "Keeper of the Keys and Grounds at Hogwarts". Now Hagrid's backstory involves him getting expelled from Hogwarts. While this does not directly relate to the title of "Keeper of keys...", you have to know about his expulsion in order to understand why he is a groundskeeper. So the title "Keeper of keys..." could have some greater meaning later, but traces of the storyline were given with the backgorund info.
Again, that is just my interpretation. We have to wait until Book 6 comes out to see what JKR meant by it.
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Kasse - Aug 6, 2004 5:56 am (#1228 of 2923)
CM1507 - you are correct, that is a squib , it is the opposite of a muggle born.
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Reading muggle - Aug 7, 2004 10:49 pm (#1229 of 2923)
Some of the posts guess that the HBP may be only a small part, but as this is the sixth of a seven-book saga, I’m guessing the HBP fits pretty directly into the war to come. It seems likely that the HBP will be someone new, as all the book titles bring us completely new subjects of the wizarding world. But given the JKR CoS hint, if I had to predict an existing character as the HBP, then it’s likely to be Colin Creevy. Why? Well even during my first read of the CoS Creevy frequented the pages with peculiar presence, yet didn’t really give anything to the CoS storyline. If Creevy is merely a surprise wizard of muggle parents (such as Granger), wouldn’t he be more interested in every aspect of Hogwarts? But instead, he seems only overly interested in the boy who lived. I think there is more to him or his brother. Could it be that he’s of British Royalty descent and is a key link to the muggle/half-blood angst that has Voldemort so fired-up? Of course that’s a little far-fetched but I see the muggle world drawn into the things to come, especially if there is a "war". If the term “prince” has any connection to the British Crown, then Creevy seems as a good guess.
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riddikulus - Aug 8, 2004 6:33 am (#1230 of 2923)
Reading Muggle: Highly doubtful. I think he's simply another character in a long list of characters that drive a story along. She specifies he's born to muggle parents... when she goes to the same lengths to talk about others being half-blooded. Seamus, Justin, HAGRID, etc.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 8, 2004 6:42 am (#1231 of 2923)
I doubt the Creevys are royalty, considering Colin says his dad is a milkman.
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True Love - Aug 8, 2004 7:09 am (#1232 of 2923)
"It seems likely that the HBP will be someone new, as all the book titles bring us completely new subjects of the wizarding world." I agree with this statement. I doubt the HBP will be any of the characters we've come across so far. I think JR will let us know fairly soon into the book and then have the continuing story of Harry vs Voldy intertwine with the HBP. The HBP will play an integral role in book 7 though, as she says both books could be written as one.
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Warty Harris - Aug 8, 2004 11:26 am (#1233 of 2923)
The discovery that is the link between Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets and Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince has nothing to do with the Half Blood Prince. So whoever one thinks the Half Blood Prince is it had nothing to do with why the two books are linked.
JKR does not say the Half Blood Prince is not in the second book. Just the storyline. So what does he discover? I would also point out that if someone thinks Hagrid or Gryffindor is the Half Blood Prince it still stands. All Harry discovers about Gryffindor is that he had a sword and that he is a true Gryffindor. All he discovers about Hagrid is that he was expelled because of Riddle. None of these things are small and both work themselves out by book six, Hagrid is exonerated and Harry realised he chose to be in Gryffindor and he should not have been in Slytherin.
So the discovery and the link have nothing to do with Hagrid and Gryffindor. They could still both be the Half Blood Prince. Let us combine the qoutes and look for something small in the movie and something he discovers in the book that may be connected to book six.
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Lunar Tides - Aug 8, 2004 5:46 pm (#1234 of 2923)
hey everyone,
I know that the half-blood prince is either the discovery or someone who is involved. (thats probably an inaccurate statement anyways...:p)
But, anyways, i was lookin at the door at JKR's amazing website and I was wondering if the stars arranged in the window make any constellations. So I looked constellations up in google and I went to a website. Out of curiosity, I also looked up "Regulus" in the stars section. Though this may already have been known, "Regulus" means "prince" or "heart of the lion."
Just thought to mention it, and I wonder if it has anythin to do w/ this topic.
Always loving criticism and correction... - Chanuel
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Archangel - Aug 9, 2004 4:48 am (#1235 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Sirius said that Regulus was killed because he was too scared to follow Voldemort's orders, right? What if it he was asked to assassinate the HBP or something big like that and he backed out? Cheers!
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Puja - Aug 9, 2004 8:11 am (#1236 of 2923)
Reading Muggle says - If the term “prince” has any connection to the British Crown, then Creevy seems as a good guess.
Colin's father is a milkman, he himself said it in CoS.
Archangel says - Sirius said that Regulus was killed because he was too scared to follow Voldemort's orders, right? What if it he was asked to assassinate the HBP or something big like that and he backed out?
Good guess archangel
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Reading muggle - Aug 9, 2004 12:11 pm (#1237 of 2923)
Puja, looney, Ridikulus: I knew about Creevy explaining the milkman bit. I'm not sure I believe it. Wouldn't bringing photos home to muggle parents be a breech of wizarding secrecy laws? How many "proud parents" aren't tempted to show pictures of there kids to muggle friends? I still need to emphasize that the HBP is most likely a new character. I just think the Creevy card is suspiciously over played with strange elements.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 9, 2004 1:07 pm (#1238 of 2923)
I believe that certain muggles are allowed to know about the magical community (such as the Prime Minister). The pictures in question aren't of Colin, if I am not mistaken. Lilly went home with "pockets full of frog spawn, turning teacups into...something or other" (not a very correct quote, but you get the idea). Her parents are muggles, as is her sister and any other possible siblings, and they are aware of the fact that there is magic. If they were to show this to their friends, some wouldn't believe them, and others would be just as trustworthy as Lilly's parents. If this makes any sense at all to you, it would explain my reasoning as to why the pictures wouldn't be a breach of security.
I would believe Colin's statement that his father is a milkman. It seemed too casual to be masking something. He is muggle-born, also, because Tom Riddle says he made Ginny set the basilisk on "four muggle-borns."
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:12 pm (#1239 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Besides, I think the "Oh, I just thought I was muggleborn, but I'm actually halfblood!" is a bit overused.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 9, 2004 3:56 pm (#1240 of 2923)
Over-used? The only instance I can think of is Dean Thomas. Am I forgetting something (though I understand if you mean it would be over-used simply because of Dean). I'm worried I'm having a memory lapse.
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 3:59 pm (#1241 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No, only Dean, but I think once is enough. It just seems a bit tapped into Jerry Springer. Maybe it's just me though.
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Ozymandias - Aug 9, 2004 4:25 pm (#1242 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
But Dean's story hasn't been used! At least not in the books. So if Colin turned out to be a half-blood it wouldn't be repetitive.
(Not that I think Colin is anything more than he appears to be. Just throwing that out there.)
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 4:46 pm (#1243 of 2923)
Reading Muggle--I must say that I have had a hunch about Colin from the first time he was introduced in the series. He DOES have quite a starring role in things where he could just as easily been missing, don't you agree?
Also, when you really think about it, Colin has only mentioned his father as being a milkman. We know nothing about his mother. To those of you who already have your fingers on the keyboard to respond that others have referred to him as muggle-born, suppose for a moment that they, too have information only about his father. Chances are that Diary Tom got his information from Ginny. Prof. McG may also be sans the identity of Colin's mother, (or maybe she DOES know and was instructed not to divulge...hmmm...).
If this does not maek soem of you think twice, then consider when Colin's brother comes to Hogwarts. Two wizard brothers in a muggle family? And they don't seem to be bad enough at their studies to warrant notice from those teachers who point out such deficiencies, (Snape).
Here is one more tidbit that has been rolling around in my head for several weeks that refuses to find a resting place, so I offer it up to the Forum for discussion: Did Jo not mention something about duality? And did we not have quite a discussion about the hyphen in Half-Blood? Perhaps...::neck sticks WAY out::...the HBP is TWO people. Perhaps it is the combination of two half-blood, halfblood princes that will be revealed. ((OK, now you can tear me up!))
So, Reading Muggle, I will stand up next to you to defend your theory is spite of the harassment we might experience. My vote for HBP is Colin.
I regret nothing!
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 4:47 pm (#1244 of 2923)
Reading Muggle--I must say that I have had a hunch about Colin from the first time he was introduced in the series. He DOES have quite a starring role in things where he could just as easily been missing, don't you agree?
Also, when you really think about it, Colin has only mentioned his father as being a milkman. We know nothing about his mother. To those of you who already have your fingers on the keyboard to respond that others have referred to him as muggle-born, suppose for a moment that they, too have information only about his father. Chances are that Diary Tom got his information from Ginny. Prof. McG may also be sans the identity of Colin's mother, (or maybe she DOES know and was instructed not to divulge...hmmm...).
If this does not make some of you think twice, then consider when Colin's brother comes to Hogwarts. Two wizard brothers in a muggle family? And they don't seem to be bad enough at their studies to warrant notice from those teachers who point out such deficiencies, (Snape).
Here is one more tidbit that has been rolling around in my head for several weeks that refuses to find a resting place, so I offer it up to the Forum for discussion: Did Jo not mention something about duality? And did we not have quite a discussion about the hyphen in Half-Blood? Perhaps...::neck sticks WAY out::...the HBP is TWO people. Perhaps it is the combination of two half-blood, halfblood princes that will be revealed. ((OK, now you can tear me up!))
So, Reading Muggle, I will stand up next to you to defend your theory is spite of the harassment we might experience. My vote for HBP is Colin.
I regret nothing!
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 9, 2004 4:58 pm (#1245 of 2923)
I do agree that Colin (and possibly Dennis) have some hidden importance, but I think that hidden pasts are just a little too redundant. This is solely based on my gut feelings.
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 9, 2004 5:43 pm (#1246 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
A question to the forum. Did anyone else pick up on JKR's home page where she mentions that the first chapter of book six has been 13 years in the making. Since I first read it I have been wondering if she is referring to the start of her writing or was she referring to someone 13 years old. I believe that Dennis will now be 13 during book six. I also believe that the comment about something small could also refer to Dennis as he has been referred to as an extremely small boy.
MzWhizz123 & Reading Muggle, I won't go out on the limb as you have and predicted it's one of them. My hands have been ironed and my ears are scarred from the oven door, but I agree that they are possiblities.
Mikie
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Star Crossed - Aug 9, 2004 5:54 pm (#1247 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
But MickeyCee3948, Dennis wasn't in CoS. Although if it wasn't for that fact, I would say it's very interesting.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 9, 2004 6:07 pm (#1248 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
MickeyCee- I believe the quote about Chapter 1 of HBP being 13 years in the making refers to how long JKR has been working on the Harry Potter books. Chapter 1 was originally written for one of the first books (either SS or CoS), but it was removed because it did not fit. However, JKR tried to use it in every book since that one, and it still never fit. Now it finally fits in HBP, so she is finally going to use it. The chapter was written 13 years ago, but never published. That is why it is 13 years in the making. My guess (my favorite guess of many) is that it tells the complete story of that night in Godric's hollow. We weren't ready to learn the complete story until now.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 6:12 pm (#1249 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Wandless, that's a very valid observation...congrats.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 9, 2004 6:23 pm (#1250 of 2923)
MzWhizz123 Rowling did seem to want to include dennis in the OotP (especialy DA) .. she wanted to so much that she overlooked that fact that only third years could go to hosmeade and found a way to have him go to the hogshead anyways...and she did say that she took a long time with OotP because she had to put in clues so that we couldnt complain it was unfair that we had no way of seeing whatever is to come coming( souded a bit wierd huh...)I have for long been thinking that we are lokking way too nuch at CoS anyways becasue there are indeed 5 hp books and they are all bound to have clues in them...As I said before in anothe post, from J.K I expect everything, and Colin or Denis as the HBP is totaly possible. Coli aways did have a weird kind of vibe aurond the passages he popped up during CoS and one of his parents has to have something maggical about them to have TWO maggical babies...and as the HBP has to someway relate to harry, colin or Dennis could do the job.. I am not saying that I think its them or neither am I saying I dont( I realy dont know what to believe anymore, this forum just has too many good ideas and all of them seem better than the next.. if jk had ever gotten writers block all she would have had to do is read up here and the boom, problem solved)I am just saying that I dont think anyone should rule out any possibilities and all of them should be discussed(ok not all of them but most of them lol).So to me so far : colin,dennis,percy and penelopies son maybe hagrid.. anyone else?
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1250 to 1300)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:11 am
True Love - Aug 9, 2004 6:42 pm (#1251 of 2923)
If she wrote chapter one of book 6 thirteen years ago, as has been implied, why is it taking her long to finish the book? If she knows the outcome of books 6 and 7 why hasn't she had at least one published yet? Too busy doing interviews, answering fan mail, being a devoited mom, having babies for goodness sakes! Finish the books, then have babies. Where is my Valium?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 6:43 pm (#1252 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
".. if jk had ever gotten writers block all she would have had to do is read up here and the boom, problem solved)"
If she read all our theories she'd say "WHOA", where was I going? LOL
Methinks the HBP is going to be really interesting and revealing. How's that for a netural statement?
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Hollywand - Aug 9, 2004 7:05 pm (#1253 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I am not persuaded that the Creevys will be royalty since Colin especially is so fame-struck himself. Rowling seems to include charachters like Lockhart and Creevy to make sport of fame. "Corking great to meet you." As Fred and George would say....
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Hollywand - Aug 9, 2004 7:12 pm (#1254 of 2923)
Gryffindor
there are a couple of great lists on this gigantic thread. All you have to do are a few searches under a few key names, and it should narrow the information to the lists. Some very articulate thoughts on the possiblities.
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Siriusly - Aug 9, 2004 7:16 pm (#1255 of 2923)
Thanks. Deleted previous request.
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 7:18 pm (#1256 of 2923)
When I first became a member about a month ago, it took me nearly a week to read the posts to the threads that interested me, and this one took the longest! You all are just SO finite in your theories! I am amazed! Sometimes it is simply overwhelming!
Twinkling--I agree with you. I have come to the conclusion that we will probably never decide for certain what is coming in Books 6 and 7, and that both will surprise us no matter how long we toss around possibilities!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 7:21 pm (#1257 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
BUT... it does give us something constructive to do while we waiting!
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 7:24 pm (#1258 of 2923)
The Lexicon Forum, a stoat pizza, and a bowl of Jello...Life just keeps getting better and better!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 7:27 pm (#1259 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
You forgot the butterbeers...dear....
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Denise P. - Aug 9, 2004 7:37 pm (#1260 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
As I reminded folks over on the DA thread, when you stray off topic, you run the risk of the thread being closed.
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 9, 2004 7:40 pm (#1261 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Have any of the sleuths among you(I exclude myself since I have trouble finding my socks in the morning)figured out where Sirus'es flying motorcycle is? JKR said in her interviews that some of us had figured it out. But I can't even find a thread about it. Boy am I a git.
Mikie
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 9, 2004 8:11 pm (#1262 of 2923)
I believe it is still in Hagrid's possession because when Harry asks him how got to the hut on the Rock he says he flew and the only possible ways for him to fly are via Tenebrus or via an enchanted motorcycle.
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Archangel - Aug 9, 2004 8:22 pm (#1263 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Would it be so bad if Book 6 ended as a cliffhanger? Maybe something to the effect of Hermione being whisked away by Bellatrix to Voldemort's castle or something, Ron getting AK-ed by Voldemort and Harry's left unconscious in the Chamber of Secrets?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 9, 2004 8:33 pm (#1264 of 2923)
Not at all in my opinion. I like cliffhanger endings.
EDIT: I wouldn't mind if the whole series ended on a cliffhanger, like Harry, Ron, & Hermione charging in to fight Voldemort and we don't know if they win or lose - you can draw your own conclusions.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 9, 2004 8:49 pm (#1265 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Denise, what exactly is the topic of this thread? It started out as a place to discuss who the HBP is. But then the title of the thread changed. I would assume the topic is still intended to discuss the HBP and only the HBP. All other book 6 predictions should go in the predictions thread. However, the title of the thread could be interprtetd to mean all thoughts about HP6. I am unclear what you meant was off-topic, the little stoat pizza exchange or the whole direction of the thread. So maybe a little clarification of what this thread should be about will help it stay on topic. I certainly do not want to see it closed down. Thanks.
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Denise P. - Aug 9, 2004 9:24 pm (#1266 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
The topic is fairly broad and as such, there is a lot of leeway. I was specifically referring to posts 1259-1261
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 9, 2004 9:37 pm (#1267 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Thanks for the clarification Denise.
Now I am free to respond to the cliffhanger ending idea for book 6. I would hate that. I am a big fan of another 7 part series, the Dark Tower by Stephen King. Books 3 and 6 in this series were major cliffhangers. I am still waiting for book 7 and the anticipation is killing me. I cannot handle any more cliffhangers. So if HP6 or HP7 had one, I'd have to check into a nice rest home for the mentally unbalanced. The minor loose ends and speculation is enough to keep my mind busy between HP books. A cliffhanger would overload my brain, which it cannot afford.
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Kwikspell - Aug 10, 2004 6:48 am (#1268 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
Oh, I don't know. I really like cliffhangers (though the wait for Philip Pullman's Amber Spyglass nearly killed me) because it builds suspense. To date, JKR has pretty much written each book in a stand-alone format (though you could argue that GoF was a bit cliffhangerish), but it wouldn't surprise me too much if she changed tactics for the HBP as a lead-up to the ultimate battle in Book 7. Not that JKR needs to build anymore suspense for the final book of the series...
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TomProffitt - Aug 10, 2004 7:20 am (#1269 of 2923)
Bullheaded empiricist
I believe that HBP will have a stand alone plot.
Yet, the series has seen a steadily increasing tension in the background plot of the war against He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. I'd bet that even though HBP will have a resolved stand alone plot, it will feel like a cliffhanger.
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I Am Used Vlad - Aug 10, 2004 8:55 am (#1270 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Don't worry, Wandless Wizard, Dark Tower 7 comes out September 21, so that cliff-hanger will soon be resolved.
I don't see a cliff-hanger ending for HBP. The Harry Potter books all more or less cover the school year, with a little pre-term stuff at the beginning. Unless JKR plans to change he style, and start book 7 right where HBP ends, there will be no cliff-hanger.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 10, 2004 9:02 am (#1271 of 2923)
I saw Book 4 as a cliffhanger... Voldemort had returned and everyone was in direct danger.
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TomProffitt - Aug 10, 2004 9:12 am (#1272 of 2923)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I saw Book 4 as a cliffhanger... Voldemort had returned and everyone was in direct danger." --- Luke E.A. Lockhart
Indeed, Luke, that is what I meant. GoF and OotP have completed plot lines, but to me, they are both cliffhangers.
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Shanda - Aug 10, 2004 9:14 am (#1273 of 2923)
Wandless Wizard at least we know the dark tower 7 book will be out this year so a few months is ok. If HBP is a cliffhanger then i will be right there with you in the rest home because there is no set date for book 7
Personally i do not think that it will be a cliffhanger. At the most it will end like GoF. Keeping us wondering what comes next but not too much of a cliffhanger.
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McSnurp - Aug 10, 2004 9:50 am (#1274 of 2923)
An elf of Mirkwood Forest
I think that Book six will be a definate cliffhanger.
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Star Crossed - Aug 10, 2004 10:04 am (#1275 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
When someone (Sorry, forget who!) suggested book seven end in a cliffhanger, it reminded me of a book I just read: The Giver. That ended in a cliffhanger. I pondered the idea, but I remember JKR saying the way book seven will end, there will nothing left to question. But I can still see HBP being a cliffhanger.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 10, 2004 10:11 am (#1276 of 2923)
The Giver didn't really end with a cliffhanger - if I recall, it ended with the hero leaving the evil black-and-white place on his bike.
I think the JKR quote you're thinking of is one saying we'll have enough backstory at the end - but I could be wrong.
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Detail Seeker - Aug 10, 2004 12:43 pm (#1277 of 2923)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Every book - except perhaps CoS - has cliffhanger-elements in its end, if you ask me. While the conflict of the episode is always resolved, the conflict Harry-Voldemort (PS,GoF, OoP) or Sirius -Ministry is shown to continue. You always leave a book with the feeling, that this is just a cease-fire. I can very well imagine, that JKR may use this element even as an ending of Book 7.
I agree, that this is not the classical definition of a cliffhanger, which I personally consider to be bad style of writing. The "Semi-cliffhanger" keeps the suspense by connecting episodes, while the real cliffhanger interrupts an episode. And the HPstories are too well knit up to now to need the cheap trick to keep the suspension.
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NZ Morgan - Aug 10, 2004 2:35 pm (#1278 of 2923)
crazy potter fan
In my opinion the HBP is someone that hasn't been introduced or has just been mentioned in passing.
But if my theory is wrong (which it probably is) i would say that it would be someone Harry knows well or well enough to have had dealings with.
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Scarlett Phoenix - Aug 10, 2004 4:12 pm (#1279 of 2923)
I am just wondering....... After re-reading a certain section on JKR's official site.... Has anyone considered Dean Thomas as a factor in all of this??
She describes that he was mentioned in SS/PS ( Chapter-- The Sorting Hat). In the British version her editor "pruned everything that he thought was a surplus to requirements". Then she goes on to say she wrote the chapter for CoS but cut it herself because of digression but gives us a brief but insightful background of Dean Thomas about living with his mom and step dad and half brothers and sister happily and when he got his letter his mom thought Dean's dad was the wizard.
In Fact "Deans father, who never told his wife what he was to protect her, got himself killed by Death Eaters when he refused to join them"
So JKR realizes that she cut Dean's journey of discovery to make Neville's journey more because it's "more important to the central plot". I know she says she fears that Dean's history will never make it into the books BUT who knows with JKR! >
Just something buzzing in my head.......
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 10, 2004 7:02 pm (#1280 of 2923)
I don't see how the classical cliffhanger is bad storytelling. Personally, I find episodic storytelling to be worse - who has all their adventures in little packets? Yes, it's bad storytelling if, just for the heck of it, Harry ends the book with Voldie yelling "Avada Kedavra", and he ducks out of the way at the beginning of the next book. But a cliffhanger like (not that this will happen), "Oh my god, James was really an evil vampire Death Eater!" would be OK.
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remiden - Aug 10, 2004 10:40 pm (#1281 of 2923)
Very nice theory Scarlett Pheonix. You could further that theory with another theory that I read here by adding that Dean Thomas's dad was Regulus Black. The plot could unfold with Voldemort finding out that Regulus married a muggle, and to make him prove his dedication to Voldemort, Regulus was ordered to kill his wife and son. When he refused, he was killed. In book 6, Dean finds out the truth about his father.
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Archangel - Aug 10, 2004 11:10 pm (#1282 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
But wasn't Regulus already a Death Eater when he was killed? Reading Dean's background from JKR's site, I got the impression that his father died for refusing to become a DE.
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Scarlett Phoenix - Aug 11, 2004 5:00 am (#1283 of 2923)
Yes Arch, Regulus was already a DE when he was killed BUT as Sirius said in OotP It was all fine and dandy until he realized what Voldemort was really up to then tried to back out and was killed. But as JKR described on her site that when the director for the movies asked what kind of Character Dean is she said he was a "Black Londoner" and if going with the theme of the Black family I doubt Regulus would have married a black muggle woman because of his mother's prejudices. (WHICH OF COURSE I DO NOT SHARE!) But back to my theory.. It is quite possible Dean could be someone to keep an eye on. But I also have theories about Neville. Since his family didn't think he had any magic until he was accidentally pushed from a window and bounced down the lane, he could have been Voldemort's mortal enemy if the eavesdropper had heard the whole prophecy, and since the DE escape from Azkaban his own powers have been growing steadily he could also be a key factor.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 11, 2004 8:43 am (#1284 of 2923)
Hey, I was rereading OotP oncee again, and somthing suck me as realy odd. sorry if someone has said this, but I think not... look at what sirius says : Because I hated the whole of them : my parents with their pure-blood mania, convinced that to be a black made you practicaly royal... ( page 111 botom of the page OotP american edition) Join this with theat book that everyone noticed as wierd also: Natures Nobility : a Wizarding Genology and I think It could very well be a clue... Is th HBP someone in the black ,malfoy or some one of those familys in the tapestry... I cant seem to get an idea or theory out of this.. can someone help ? It definatly gives us the idea that royalty definatly exsits in the Wizard World...Maybe the idea that I mentioned many posts ago of Percy and Penelopes son being the HBP isnt that upserd, they would be around 20 woundt they, so then they woudnt be too young to have babies, and that the Wesleys are a royal family...anyways, I think royalti exsists in the wizarding world and this clue I think proves it to us...any thoughts?
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Archangel - Aug 11, 2004 7:41 pm (#1285 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 11, 2004 7:46 pm
Yes Cezar, I thought about this too and I think the Black family could be the Royal Family in WW but were overthrown or something like that. Or if not, they could be one of the surviving royal families.
A thought occured to me before (and I think I posted it somewhere here) that perhaps the reason why Regulus was killed was because he was order to kill the prince or someone of great importance and he refused. I wasn't able to elaborate on that post at that time but I believe maybe it's because this person is someone he knew and is very close to.
The reason for this thought is that I remembered that the trigger for WWI was the assassination of Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand, the heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and since there are conjectures saying that the 1st war that the OoP were referring to was patterned after WWI, I just thought that maybe the death of a wizarding royalty could have also sparked the war or brought it to wider attention. Here's a link to the assassination thing in WWI for your reference.
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Atl Johnson - Aug 12, 2004 12:36 am (#1286 of 2923)
HBP is the real title since JKR did say it in some interviews and amazon.com is listing the title as book 6 in the HP series.
Also on JKR site she says that neither Voldermort, Tom Riddle (aka Voldermort), nor Harry are the HBP so it has to be someone else.
My theory it has to deal with someone outside of Gryffindor and outside of Harry's normal group. I think maybe the HBP will be a whole new character that will shed light on Harry's parents and how and why Voldermort turned evil. And this new character will probably also tell why Voldermort chose Harry over Neville, too. Again only my theory...
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 12, 2004 10:56 am (#1287 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
WIth all this talk of Colin Creevey's father being a milkman, one has to smile. "My dad's a milkman" is, at least in Britain, a euphemism for "Mother was naughty in her youth"! Not sure what the equivalent term is in North America (Mailman, perhaps?). And Colin being somehwat slow to take a hint has probably heard his mother say his dad's a milkman and not quite grasped the full meaning of the statement, as it were.
Now, this possibility, that Colin's dad is someone with whom his mother had some passing fling, lends some strength to the idea of Colin as HBP. Perhaps the 'milkman' was a wizard? I'm not saying I really think Colin Creevey is the HBP, but it's an interesting possibility, huh?
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 12, 2004 10:57 am (#1288 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Perhaps the HBP is someone Voldemort has already killed. Perhaps that is one of the reasons he is so powerful - he gained this person's powers (kind of like Highlander)...Just a theory.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 12, 2004 11:53 am (#1289 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Interesting theory Rich - he could certainly feed of life forces when he kills people, something like Highlander. But my twisted brain is now playing Queen songs and imagining Voldemort standing on a hilltop in a thunderstorm, waving a sword and dressed in a Freddie Mercury spandex get-up!
I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I need to go eat!
Good job Snape has never tried Legilimency on me!
"How dare you imagine the Dark Lord in spandex! He prefers a 100% cotton black robe!"
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Madame Librarian - Aug 12, 2004 12:55 pm (#1290 of 2923)
WIth all this talk of Colin Creevey's father being a milkman, one has to smile. "My dad's a milkman" is, at least in Britain, a euphemism for "Mother was naughty in her youth"! Not sure what the equivalent term is in North America (Mailman, perhaps?). And Colin being somehwat slow to take a hint has probably heard his mother say his dad's a milkman and not quite grasped the full meaning of the statement, as it were.
Fawkes Egg, you really gave me a chuckle. I comletely missed the joke till now, but in my family, we used it all the time. My sister is a redhead, the only one in the family. When she was little everyone in the family teased my mom, saying things like, " No one in our family has red hair, it must have been from the milkman (wink, wink)." Well, little ears are very sensitive. When a friendly passerby on the street would ask my sister where she got her pretty red hair, she'd, of course, blurt out "From the milkman!" My mother about died from embarrassment.
So here in the US it's the same idiom. Milkman delivers every day. While Dad's off at work, mom's...well, um...establishing an enhanced relationship with the milkman. I don't imagine many children would get the double entendre if that's what JKR was doing there. (Hope that doesn't get me Thumpered.)
Ciao. Barb
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MrsGump - Aug 12, 2004 1:56 pm (#1291 of 2923)
Madame Librarian,
It's the same in my family with my red-headed brother. There bigger joke is, my parent's mailman actually had red hair. (Thankfully, for my mom, my brother looks just like my dad, just the hair thing).
I'm not sure if that was just an inside joke that JKR thought was funny or if it really is a clue.
I'm starting to think we should start spreading our own rumors for theories/ ideas we want confirmed or denied so that she'd have to update her site. :-)
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Siriusly - Aug 12, 2004 2:21 pm (#1292 of 2923)
You know, a milkman did deliver eggs filled with Harry's invitations to Hogwarts. Doesn't Colin always take pictures to give to his dad? You think his dad would have told him if he was a wizard.
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True Love - Aug 12, 2004 5:44 pm (#1293 of 2923)
Yes, we use the expression "milkman" in North America too. I found this train of thought to be quite funny. Poor little Colin, cute but not too bright.
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Good Evans - Aug 13, 2004 10:48 am (#1294 of 2923)
Practically perfect in every way
I think it very funny - but I am pretty sure that Colin talks about his Dad in one of the books - about showing him photographs I think (probably COS) so I dont think JKR is being funny - but it did make me laugh!"
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toonwarrior - Aug 14, 2004 1:49 pm (#1295 of 2923)
Hi guys. I have two theories for the HBP based on this excerpt from JKR's website: "it [the HBP] relates to [CoS by a] discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince.' Harry makes two big discoveries in HBP. He learns he's a parsel tongue, so it would make sense for Salazar Slytherin to be the HBP. He also discovers that he belongs in Gryfindor because of the sword. Therefore, it would make sense that Gordric Gryfindor would be the HBP. Somewhere in here (in the 500's I think) somebody said that Gryfindor's sword was royal, too. Peace.
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Madame Librarian - Aug 14, 2004 2:04 pm (#1296 of 2923)
Hey, toonwarrior, are you new-ish? Welcome!
Anyhow, what you said gave me an idea. An admittedly goofy idea, dependent on an oddball interpretation of the word "half." OK, Harry, you say, discovers two things about himself on CoS--he could be related to Slyth through the parseltongue business, or he could be related to Godric because of the sword thing. That makes it sound like these guys shared in the job of of being Harry's ancestor. Don't know how, haven't a clue. The point I'm getting to is that way back when, Slyth and Godric were brothers of cousins and shared the title of Blood Prince, they each had half the job. That also explains why that sneaky little hyphen is missing.
So book 6 is just about one of them, or one of the sides of that family. Prediction for title of book 7: Harry Potter and the Other Half Blood Prince (that last bit's a joke, don't throw stuff at me, OK?).
Ciao. Barb
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zaaaach - Aug 14, 2004 2:48 pm (#1297 of 2923)
I just thought of something, the Half-Blood Prince could very well be Salazar Slytherin. In CoS Harry learned that LV was Slytherin's true heir. Perhaps Voldemort was not only related to SS on his mother's side but also his father's and Slytherin himself was a half-blood. Maybe something happened to him, like what happened to LV, and that made him start the pureblood mania that the Dark Lord carried on.
Don't know if this makes any sense but I understood it at first haha.
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toonwarrior - Aug 14, 2004 5:51 pm (#1298 of 2923)
Thanks Madame Librarian, I am a bit new. Is there really a hyphen on between half and blood? Your theory would be pretty cool. Also, it lines up with the stuff reviled about the HBP. Crazier things certainly have happened in the series.
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Lord Montemort - Aug 14, 2004 9:32 pm (#1299 of 2923)
Sorry I didn't read all the posts as there were 890 or so. I will though
My gut told me it was Godric when the title was announced, and I still think it is. What form it will take, well I have no idea.
The reasons why I think it's him:
The argument between Salazar and Godric, way back when. Pure blooded Salazar may have hit a nerve when wanting to teach only pure blooded wizard's. Even Voldemort is a half blood to me that has no bearing what so ever on Salazar. I think he was pure blood all the way.
May explain Voldemort's over-achieving nature as being half blood probably fills him with so much self loathing he lashes out. Particularly at the pure blooded wizards who serve him.
Second reason for Godric. The sword. Why would a wizard need a sword? He could atomize, bind, blind, whatever with his wand. Why would a wizard need a sword?
This links him to being a least a member of the nobility. As in the late dark/early middle ages swords were expensive to make. and rank and file infantry generally used spears or other cheaper weapons. More to the point it's an extremely ornate sword. No member of the lesser nobility could afford a blade that has several large rubies in the hilt. Much less use it.
I also doubt it's ceremonial either since it did work quite well over the basilisk. Even it was ceremonial it could be seen as a badge of office.
Having such a blade leads me to believe Godric was trained in it's use. Again swordsmanship has always been somewhat of a trait among the noble classes of medieval Europe. The monetary value of the sword is something that only a King or Prince could afford. That's why I think Godric was (is) the Half Blood Prince.
Now what form he'll take in book six, if I'm right, is a harder question altogether. Could be a ghost, a vision, a chamber, gravesite, dream, artifact, direct descendent. That's where we'll all be amazed by JKR's twist.
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ruthlesspenguin - Aug 15, 2004 3:33 am (#1300 of 2923)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Lord Montemort, A few more reasons for you as to why the HBP might have something to do with Godric:
1. When Binns tells the class about the legend of the Chamber of Secrets he repeatedly denies its existance. Why would Rowling bother including this? Would anyone really doubt that there was a Chamber of Secrets in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets? In fact the chamber's existance is basically confirmed by Hermione at the end of the chapter. So I would say that the purpose of Binn's comments is not to create dramatic tension. On the other hand it does indicate that he is not the most knowledgable source on the Hogwart's founders, and that we should not be surprised to find there is more to the story.
2. If Godric is the HBP, then, as has previously been suggested, it would seem to follow that Harry is his heir (I am actually not convinced of this and prefer to think that the HBP will make Harry believe he is Godric's heir, only to later find out he is not). If this involves Harry (or the reader) speculating about this through the book, then it would explain why the plot line was removed from CoS, in which Harry spends a large amount of his time worrying he is the heir of Slytherin.
I would also like to point out that these points and the ones you raise could equally apply to a son of Gryffindor and a muggle. The argument could then be explained by Slytherin not wanting this son to be educated at Hogwarts (if you read through the posts you will find this theory has been previously mentioned-can't remember when or who by though).
<(')
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If she wrote chapter one of book 6 thirteen years ago, as has been implied, why is it taking her long to finish the book? If she knows the outcome of books 6 and 7 why hasn't she had at least one published yet? Too busy doing interviews, answering fan mail, being a devoited mom, having babies for goodness sakes! Finish the books, then have babies. Where is my Valium?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 6:43 pm (#1252 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
".. if jk had ever gotten writers block all she would have had to do is read up here and the boom, problem solved)"
If she read all our theories she'd say "WHOA", where was I going? LOL
Methinks the HBP is going to be really interesting and revealing. How's that for a netural statement?
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Hollywand - Aug 9, 2004 7:05 pm (#1253 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I am not persuaded that the Creevys will be royalty since Colin especially is so fame-struck himself. Rowling seems to include charachters like Lockhart and Creevy to make sport of fame. "Corking great to meet you." As Fred and George would say....
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Hollywand - Aug 9, 2004 7:12 pm (#1254 of 2923)
Gryffindor
there are a couple of great lists on this gigantic thread. All you have to do are a few searches under a few key names, and it should narrow the information to the lists. Some very articulate thoughts on the possiblities.
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Siriusly - Aug 9, 2004 7:16 pm (#1255 of 2923)
Thanks. Deleted previous request.
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 7:18 pm (#1256 of 2923)
When I first became a member about a month ago, it took me nearly a week to read the posts to the threads that interested me, and this one took the longest! You all are just SO finite in your theories! I am amazed! Sometimes it is simply overwhelming!
Twinkling--I agree with you. I have come to the conclusion that we will probably never decide for certain what is coming in Books 6 and 7, and that both will surprise us no matter how long we toss around possibilities!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 7:21 pm (#1257 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
BUT... it does give us something constructive to do while we waiting!
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MzWhizz123 - Aug 9, 2004 7:24 pm (#1258 of 2923)
The Lexicon Forum, a stoat pizza, and a bowl of Jello...Life just keeps getting better and better!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 9, 2004 7:27 pm (#1259 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
You forgot the butterbeers...dear....
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Denise P. - Aug 9, 2004 7:37 pm (#1260 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
As I reminded folks over on the DA thread, when you stray off topic, you run the risk of the thread being closed.
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 9, 2004 7:40 pm (#1261 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Have any of the sleuths among you(I exclude myself since I have trouble finding my socks in the morning)figured out where Sirus'es flying motorcycle is? JKR said in her interviews that some of us had figured it out. But I can't even find a thread about it. Boy am I a git.
Mikie
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Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 9, 2004 8:11 pm (#1262 of 2923)
I believe it is still in Hagrid's possession because when Harry asks him how got to the hut on the Rock he says he flew and the only possible ways for him to fly are via Tenebrus or via an enchanted motorcycle.
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Archangel - Aug 9, 2004 8:22 pm (#1263 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Would it be so bad if Book 6 ended as a cliffhanger? Maybe something to the effect of Hermione being whisked away by Bellatrix to Voldemort's castle or something, Ron getting AK-ed by Voldemort and Harry's left unconscious in the Chamber of Secrets?
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 9, 2004 8:33 pm (#1264 of 2923)
Not at all in my opinion. I like cliffhanger endings.
EDIT: I wouldn't mind if the whole series ended on a cliffhanger, like Harry, Ron, & Hermione charging in to fight Voldemort and we don't know if they win or lose - you can draw your own conclusions.
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 9, 2004 8:49 pm (#1265 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Denise, what exactly is the topic of this thread? It started out as a place to discuss who the HBP is. But then the title of the thread changed. I would assume the topic is still intended to discuss the HBP and only the HBP. All other book 6 predictions should go in the predictions thread. However, the title of the thread could be interprtetd to mean all thoughts about HP6. I am unclear what you meant was off-topic, the little stoat pizza exchange or the whole direction of the thread. So maybe a little clarification of what this thread should be about will help it stay on topic. I certainly do not want to see it closed down. Thanks.
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Denise P. - Aug 9, 2004 9:24 pm (#1266 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
The topic is fairly broad and as such, there is a lot of leeway. I was specifically referring to posts 1259-1261
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The Wandless Wizard - Aug 9, 2004 9:37 pm (#1267 of 2923)
When wands are outlawed, only outlaws will have wands.
Thanks for the clarification Denise.
Now I am free to respond to the cliffhanger ending idea for book 6. I would hate that. I am a big fan of another 7 part series, the Dark Tower by Stephen King. Books 3 and 6 in this series were major cliffhangers. I am still waiting for book 7 and the anticipation is killing me. I cannot handle any more cliffhangers. So if HP6 or HP7 had one, I'd have to check into a nice rest home for the mentally unbalanced. The minor loose ends and speculation is enough to keep my mind busy between HP books. A cliffhanger would overload my brain, which it cannot afford.
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Kwikspell - Aug 10, 2004 6:48 am (#1268 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
Oh, I don't know. I really like cliffhangers (though the wait for Philip Pullman's Amber Spyglass nearly killed me) because it builds suspense. To date, JKR has pretty much written each book in a stand-alone format (though you could argue that GoF was a bit cliffhangerish), but it wouldn't surprise me too much if she changed tactics for the HBP as a lead-up to the ultimate battle in Book 7. Not that JKR needs to build anymore suspense for the final book of the series...
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TomProffitt - Aug 10, 2004 7:20 am (#1269 of 2923)
Bullheaded empiricist
I believe that HBP will have a stand alone plot.
Yet, the series has seen a steadily increasing tension in the background plot of the war against He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. I'd bet that even though HBP will have a resolved stand alone plot, it will feel like a cliffhanger.
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I Am Used Vlad - Aug 10, 2004 8:55 am (#1270 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Don't worry, Wandless Wizard, Dark Tower 7 comes out September 21, so that cliff-hanger will soon be resolved.
I don't see a cliff-hanger ending for HBP. The Harry Potter books all more or less cover the school year, with a little pre-term stuff at the beginning. Unless JKR plans to change he style, and start book 7 right where HBP ends, there will be no cliff-hanger.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 10, 2004 9:02 am (#1271 of 2923)
I saw Book 4 as a cliffhanger... Voldemort had returned and everyone was in direct danger.
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TomProffitt - Aug 10, 2004 9:12 am (#1272 of 2923)
Bullheaded empiricist
"I saw Book 4 as a cliffhanger... Voldemort had returned and everyone was in direct danger." --- Luke E.A. Lockhart
Indeed, Luke, that is what I meant. GoF and OotP have completed plot lines, but to me, they are both cliffhangers.
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Shanda - Aug 10, 2004 9:14 am (#1273 of 2923)
Wandless Wizard at least we know the dark tower 7 book will be out this year so a few months is ok. If HBP is a cliffhanger then i will be right there with you in the rest home because there is no set date for book 7
Personally i do not think that it will be a cliffhanger. At the most it will end like GoF. Keeping us wondering what comes next but not too much of a cliffhanger.
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McSnurp - Aug 10, 2004 9:50 am (#1274 of 2923)
An elf of Mirkwood Forest
I think that Book six will be a definate cliffhanger.
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Star Crossed - Aug 10, 2004 10:04 am (#1275 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
When someone (Sorry, forget who!) suggested book seven end in a cliffhanger, it reminded me of a book I just read: The Giver. That ended in a cliffhanger. I pondered the idea, but I remember JKR saying the way book seven will end, there will nothing left to question. But I can still see HBP being a cliffhanger.
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 10, 2004 10:11 am (#1276 of 2923)
The Giver didn't really end with a cliffhanger - if I recall, it ended with the hero leaving the evil black-and-white place on his bike.
I think the JKR quote you're thinking of is one saying we'll have enough backstory at the end - but I could be wrong.
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Detail Seeker - Aug 10, 2004 12:43 pm (#1277 of 2923)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Every book - except perhaps CoS - has cliffhanger-elements in its end, if you ask me. While the conflict of the episode is always resolved, the conflict Harry-Voldemort (PS,GoF, OoP) or Sirius -Ministry is shown to continue. You always leave a book with the feeling, that this is just a cease-fire. I can very well imagine, that JKR may use this element even as an ending of Book 7.
I agree, that this is not the classical definition of a cliffhanger, which I personally consider to be bad style of writing. The "Semi-cliffhanger" keeps the suspense by connecting episodes, while the real cliffhanger interrupts an episode. And the HPstories are too well knit up to now to need the cheap trick to keep the suspension.
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NZ Morgan - Aug 10, 2004 2:35 pm (#1278 of 2923)
crazy potter fan
In my opinion the HBP is someone that hasn't been introduced or has just been mentioned in passing.
But if my theory is wrong (which it probably is) i would say that it would be someone Harry knows well or well enough to have had dealings with.
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Scarlett Phoenix - Aug 10, 2004 4:12 pm (#1279 of 2923)
I am just wondering....... After re-reading a certain section on JKR's official site.... Has anyone considered Dean Thomas as a factor in all of this??
She describes that he was mentioned in SS/PS ( Chapter-- The Sorting Hat). In the British version her editor "pruned everything that he thought was a surplus to requirements". Then she goes on to say she wrote the chapter for CoS but cut it herself because of digression but gives us a brief but insightful background of Dean Thomas about living with his mom and step dad and half brothers and sister happily and when he got his letter his mom thought Dean's dad was the wizard.
In Fact "Deans father, who never told his wife what he was to protect her, got himself killed by Death Eaters when he refused to join them"
So JKR realizes that she cut Dean's journey of discovery to make Neville's journey more because it's "more important to the central plot". I know she says she fears that Dean's history will never make it into the books BUT who knows with JKR! >
Just something buzzing in my head.......
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Luke E.A. Lockhart - Aug 10, 2004 7:02 pm (#1280 of 2923)
I don't see how the classical cliffhanger is bad storytelling. Personally, I find episodic storytelling to be worse - who has all their adventures in little packets? Yes, it's bad storytelling if, just for the heck of it, Harry ends the book with Voldie yelling "Avada Kedavra", and he ducks out of the way at the beginning of the next book. But a cliffhanger like (not that this will happen), "Oh my god, James was really an evil vampire Death Eater!" would be OK.
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remiden - Aug 10, 2004 10:40 pm (#1281 of 2923)
Very nice theory Scarlett Pheonix. You could further that theory with another theory that I read here by adding that Dean Thomas's dad was Regulus Black. The plot could unfold with Voldemort finding out that Regulus married a muggle, and to make him prove his dedication to Voldemort, Regulus was ordered to kill his wife and son. When he refused, he was killed. In book 6, Dean finds out the truth about his father.
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Archangel - Aug 10, 2004 11:10 pm (#1282 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
But wasn't Regulus already a Death Eater when he was killed? Reading Dean's background from JKR's site, I got the impression that his father died for refusing to become a DE.
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Scarlett Phoenix - Aug 11, 2004 5:00 am (#1283 of 2923)
Yes Arch, Regulus was already a DE when he was killed BUT as Sirius said in OotP It was all fine and dandy until he realized what Voldemort was really up to then tried to back out and was killed. But as JKR described on her site that when the director for the movies asked what kind of Character Dean is she said he was a "Black Londoner" and if going with the theme of the Black family I doubt Regulus would have married a black muggle woman because of his mother's prejudices. (WHICH OF COURSE I DO NOT SHARE!) But back to my theory.. It is quite possible Dean could be someone to keep an eye on. But I also have theories about Neville. Since his family didn't think he had any magic until he was accidentally pushed from a window and bounced down the lane, he could have been Voldemort's mortal enemy if the eavesdropper had heard the whole prophecy, and since the DE escape from Azkaban his own powers have been growing steadily he could also be a key factor.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 11, 2004 8:43 am (#1284 of 2923)
Hey, I was rereading OotP oncee again, and somthing suck me as realy odd. sorry if someone has said this, but I think not... look at what sirius says : Because I hated the whole of them : my parents with their pure-blood mania, convinced that to be a black made you practicaly royal... ( page 111 botom of the page OotP american edition) Join this with theat book that everyone noticed as wierd also: Natures Nobility : a Wizarding Genology and I think It could very well be a clue... Is th HBP someone in the black ,malfoy or some one of those familys in the tapestry... I cant seem to get an idea or theory out of this.. can someone help ? It definatly gives us the idea that royalty definatly exsits in the Wizard World...Maybe the idea that I mentioned many posts ago of Percy and Penelopes son being the HBP isnt that upserd, they would be around 20 woundt they, so then they woudnt be too young to have babies, and that the Wesleys are a royal family...anyways, I think royalti exsists in the wizarding world and this clue I think proves it to us...any thoughts?
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Archangel - Aug 11, 2004 7:41 pm (#1285 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 11, 2004 7:46 pm
Yes Cezar, I thought about this too and I think the Black family could be the Royal Family in WW but were overthrown or something like that. Or if not, they could be one of the surviving royal families.
A thought occured to me before (and I think I posted it somewhere here) that perhaps the reason why Regulus was killed was because he was order to kill the prince or someone of great importance and he refused. I wasn't able to elaborate on that post at that time but I believe maybe it's because this person is someone he knew and is very close to.
The reason for this thought is that I remembered that the trigger for WWI was the assassination of Austrian Archduke Francis Ferdinand, the heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and since there are conjectures saying that the 1st war that the OoP were referring to was patterned after WWI, I just thought that maybe the death of a wizarding royalty could have also sparked the war or brought it to wider attention. Here's a link to the assassination thing in WWI for your reference.
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Atl Johnson - Aug 12, 2004 12:36 am (#1286 of 2923)
HBP is the real title since JKR did say it in some interviews and amazon.com is listing the title as book 6 in the HP series.
Also on JKR site she says that neither Voldermort, Tom Riddle (aka Voldermort), nor Harry are the HBP so it has to be someone else.
My theory it has to deal with someone outside of Gryffindor and outside of Harry's normal group. I think maybe the HBP will be a whole new character that will shed light on Harry's parents and how and why Voldermort turned evil. And this new character will probably also tell why Voldermort chose Harry over Neville, too. Again only my theory...
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 12, 2004 10:56 am (#1287 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
WIth all this talk of Colin Creevey's father being a milkman, one has to smile. "My dad's a milkman" is, at least in Britain, a euphemism for "Mother was naughty in her youth"! Not sure what the equivalent term is in North America (Mailman, perhaps?). And Colin being somehwat slow to take a hint has probably heard his mother say his dad's a milkman and not quite grasped the full meaning of the statement, as it were.
Now, this possibility, that Colin's dad is someone with whom his mother had some passing fling, lends some strength to the idea of Colin as HBP. Perhaps the 'milkman' was a wizard? I'm not saying I really think Colin Creevey is the HBP, but it's an interesting possibility, huh?
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 12, 2004 10:57 am (#1288 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Perhaps the HBP is someone Voldemort has already killed. Perhaps that is one of the reasons he is so powerful - he gained this person's powers (kind of like Highlander)...Just a theory.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 12, 2004 11:53 am (#1289 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Interesting theory Rich - he could certainly feed of life forces when he kills people, something like Highlander. But my twisted brain is now playing Queen songs and imagining Voldemort standing on a hilltop in a thunderstorm, waving a sword and dressed in a Freddie Mercury spandex get-up!
I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I need to go eat!
Good job Snape has never tried Legilimency on me!
"How dare you imagine the Dark Lord in spandex! He prefers a 100% cotton black robe!"
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Madame Librarian - Aug 12, 2004 12:55 pm (#1290 of 2923)
WIth all this talk of Colin Creevey's father being a milkman, one has to smile. "My dad's a milkman" is, at least in Britain, a euphemism for "Mother was naughty in her youth"! Not sure what the equivalent term is in North America (Mailman, perhaps?). And Colin being somehwat slow to take a hint has probably heard his mother say his dad's a milkman and not quite grasped the full meaning of the statement, as it were.
Fawkes Egg, you really gave me a chuckle. I comletely missed the joke till now, but in my family, we used it all the time. My sister is a redhead, the only one in the family. When she was little everyone in the family teased my mom, saying things like, " No one in our family has red hair, it must have been from the milkman (wink, wink)." Well, little ears are very sensitive. When a friendly passerby on the street would ask my sister where she got her pretty red hair, she'd, of course, blurt out "From the milkman!" My mother about died from embarrassment.
So here in the US it's the same idiom. Milkman delivers every day. While Dad's off at work, mom's...well, um...establishing an enhanced relationship with the milkman. I don't imagine many children would get the double entendre if that's what JKR was doing there. (Hope that doesn't get me Thumpered.)
Ciao. Barb
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MrsGump - Aug 12, 2004 1:56 pm (#1291 of 2923)
Madame Librarian,
It's the same in my family with my red-headed brother. There bigger joke is, my parent's mailman actually had red hair. (Thankfully, for my mom, my brother looks just like my dad, just the hair thing).
I'm not sure if that was just an inside joke that JKR thought was funny or if it really is a clue.
I'm starting to think we should start spreading our own rumors for theories/ ideas we want confirmed or denied so that she'd have to update her site. :-)
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Siriusly - Aug 12, 2004 2:21 pm (#1292 of 2923)
You know, a milkman did deliver eggs filled with Harry's invitations to Hogwarts. Doesn't Colin always take pictures to give to his dad? You think his dad would have told him if he was a wizard.
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True Love - Aug 12, 2004 5:44 pm (#1293 of 2923)
Yes, we use the expression "milkman" in North America too. I found this train of thought to be quite funny. Poor little Colin, cute but not too bright.
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Good Evans - Aug 13, 2004 10:48 am (#1294 of 2923)
Practically perfect in every way
I think it very funny - but I am pretty sure that Colin talks about his Dad in one of the books - about showing him photographs I think (probably COS) so I dont think JKR is being funny - but it did make me laugh!"
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toonwarrior - Aug 14, 2004 1:49 pm (#1295 of 2923)
Hi guys. I have two theories for the HBP based on this excerpt from JKR's website: "it [the HBP] relates to [CoS by a] discovery Harry made in 'Chamber' that foreshadows something that he finds out in 'Prince.' Harry makes two big discoveries in HBP. He learns he's a parsel tongue, so it would make sense for Salazar Slytherin to be the HBP. He also discovers that he belongs in Gryfindor because of the sword. Therefore, it would make sense that Gordric Gryfindor would be the HBP. Somewhere in here (in the 500's I think) somebody said that Gryfindor's sword was royal, too. Peace.
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Madame Librarian - Aug 14, 2004 2:04 pm (#1296 of 2923)
Hey, toonwarrior, are you new-ish? Welcome!
Anyhow, what you said gave me an idea. An admittedly goofy idea, dependent on an oddball interpretation of the word "half." OK, Harry, you say, discovers two things about himself on CoS--he could be related to Slyth through the parseltongue business, or he could be related to Godric because of the sword thing. That makes it sound like these guys shared in the job of of being Harry's ancestor. Don't know how, haven't a clue. The point I'm getting to is that way back when, Slyth and Godric were brothers of cousins and shared the title of Blood Prince, they each had half the job. That also explains why that sneaky little hyphen is missing.
So book 6 is just about one of them, or one of the sides of that family. Prediction for title of book 7: Harry Potter and the Other Half Blood Prince (that last bit's a joke, don't throw stuff at me, OK?).
Ciao. Barb
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zaaaach - Aug 14, 2004 2:48 pm (#1297 of 2923)
I just thought of something, the Half-Blood Prince could very well be Salazar Slytherin. In CoS Harry learned that LV was Slytherin's true heir. Perhaps Voldemort was not only related to SS on his mother's side but also his father's and Slytherin himself was a half-blood. Maybe something happened to him, like what happened to LV, and that made him start the pureblood mania that the Dark Lord carried on.
Don't know if this makes any sense but I understood it at first haha.
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toonwarrior - Aug 14, 2004 5:51 pm (#1298 of 2923)
Thanks Madame Librarian, I am a bit new. Is there really a hyphen on between half and blood? Your theory would be pretty cool. Also, it lines up with the stuff reviled about the HBP. Crazier things certainly have happened in the series.
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Lord Montemort - Aug 14, 2004 9:32 pm (#1299 of 2923)
Sorry I didn't read all the posts as there were 890 or so. I will though
My gut told me it was Godric when the title was announced, and I still think it is. What form it will take, well I have no idea.
The reasons why I think it's him:
The argument between Salazar and Godric, way back when. Pure blooded Salazar may have hit a nerve when wanting to teach only pure blooded wizard's. Even Voldemort is a half blood to me that has no bearing what so ever on Salazar. I think he was pure blood all the way.
May explain Voldemort's over-achieving nature as being half blood probably fills him with so much self loathing he lashes out. Particularly at the pure blooded wizards who serve him.
Second reason for Godric. The sword. Why would a wizard need a sword? He could atomize, bind, blind, whatever with his wand. Why would a wizard need a sword?
This links him to being a least a member of the nobility. As in the late dark/early middle ages swords were expensive to make. and rank and file infantry generally used spears or other cheaper weapons. More to the point it's an extremely ornate sword. No member of the lesser nobility could afford a blade that has several large rubies in the hilt. Much less use it.
I also doubt it's ceremonial either since it did work quite well over the basilisk. Even it was ceremonial it could be seen as a badge of office.
Having such a blade leads me to believe Godric was trained in it's use. Again swordsmanship has always been somewhat of a trait among the noble classes of medieval Europe. The monetary value of the sword is something that only a King or Prince could afford. That's why I think Godric was (is) the Half Blood Prince.
Now what form he'll take in book six, if I'm right, is a harder question altogether. Could be a ghost, a vision, a chamber, gravesite, dream, artifact, direct descendent. That's where we'll all be amazed by JKR's twist.
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ruthlesspenguin - Aug 15, 2004 3:33 am (#1300 of 2923)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Lord Montemort, A few more reasons for you as to why the HBP might have something to do with Godric:
1. When Binns tells the class about the legend of the Chamber of Secrets he repeatedly denies its existance. Why would Rowling bother including this? Would anyone really doubt that there was a Chamber of Secrets in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets? In fact the chamber's existance is basically confirmed by Hermione at the end of the chapter. So I would say that the purpose of Binn's comments is not to create dramatic tension. On the other hand it does indicate that he is not the most knowledgable source on the Hogwart's founders, and that we should not be surprised to find there is more to the story.
2. If Godric is the HBP, then, as has previously been suggested, it would seem to follow that Harry is his heir (I am actually not convinced of this and prefer to think that the HBP will make Harry believe he is Godric's heir, only to later find out he is not). If this involves Harry (or the reader) speculating about this through the book, then it would explain why the plot line was removed from CoS, in which Harry spends a large amount of his time worrying he is the heir of Slytherin.
I would also like to point out that these points and the ones you raise could equally apply to a son of Gryffindor and a muggle. The argument could then be explained by Slytherin not wanting this son to be educated at Hogwarts (if you read through the posts you will find this theory has been previously mentioned-can't remember when or who by though).
<(')
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1301 to 1350)
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Madame Librarian - Aug 15, 2004 5:52 am (#1301 of 2923)
Toonwarrior, you asked: Is there really a hyphen on between half and blood?
No, not in the book 6 title as it's been shown on Jo's website and in the press. That's my point. In the previous books' the terms half-blood and pure-blood are hyphenated, indicating without a doubt that the term half refers to the blood, not the noun following (e.g., half-blood wizard), whereas without the hyphen, the situation is a bit foggier--the word half could modify blood or prince or Blood Prince) that being a title (usage example: Oh, I say, I had tea with that charming guy, you know, the new Blood Prince.).
For an extensive and well-researched discussion of all the fine points of grammar on this gnarly little hyphen issue, use the search tool on this thread for the posts relating to hyphens. As I recall, there are excellent explanations of the "rules." We came to no solid conclusion, but the sticklers amongst us (and we hope Jo and her editors are of the same stripe) feel that it was a definite move on her part to omit the hyphen in that title, not arbitrary or a mistake.
Happy hyphen hunting!
Ciao. Barb
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 15, 2004 6:33 am (#1302 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
A few questions for the group:
1. The jewels in the sword. Harry believes them to be rubies. Could they possibly be pieces of the sorcerers stone which was destroyed in the 1st book? Could the sword which is mentioned in all of the following books be pivotal in the conclusion of the story?
2. We have all had a good laugh about Colin Creevey's father being a milkman. But what do we know about his mother. Colin has never to my limited knowledge discussed her or what her backround might be. Half-blood Prince?
3. Harry's father James is said to have inherited his money. From whom? What did Harry's ancestor's do or what position did they hold to accumulate all of that money?
Mikie
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 6:48 am (#1303 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 15, 2004 7:08 am
You raise a nice point in Q#3 Mikie. I've always gotten the impression that the Potters were quite well-off. They could be "Old Money" but I'm inclined to think that they were more of "New Money". Maybe they got to be rich because of their skills rather than their name you know. They could have owned a lot of profitable businesses for all we know.
Anyway, just finished reading the article about JKR's thing in Edinburgh and she mentioned there that the two important things to ask are: Why didn't Voldemort die when he attacked Harry and Why didn't DD kill Voldemort in OoP when he had a chance? Here's the link to the article. Cheers!
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 15, 2004 7:06 am (#1304 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Archangel - It is stated somewhere(I can't remember where)that James inherited the money.
Another question comes to mind.
At the end of GoF we are told that Voldemorts use of Harry's blood "removes that barrier". Doesn't that infer that the where "his mother's blood dwells" barrier is removed or is DD referring to another of the charms which Harry carries?
Mikie
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 7:10 am (#1305 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
I thought of that as something to do with the ability to touch Harry freely since he was unable to do in PS/SS via Quirrell because of his mother's protection.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 15, 2004 1:25 pm (#1306 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Y'know, there's always been a great deal made of Lily sacrificing her life for Harry in the books, all tied to the need for Harry to stay with Petunia for at least part of the summer. But what about James' sacrifice? There may be no living Potters to whom Harry could go for safety. but perhaps some of the charms Harry has protecting him come from his father as well as his mother. Lupin even says it in PoA when he covers for Harry and Ron with the Marauders' Map: "Your parents sacrificed their lives for you." As far as I can recall, he's the only one who ever acknowledges James' sacrifice alongside Lily's.
And if the Potter dynasty is New Money, so to speak, perhaps the half-blood angle could come from there too. Perhaps the influence of a half-blooded Potter ancestor coming into Harry's life now that Sirius is gone? Or perhaps the link between Harry and Godric is through the Potter side of his family?
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True Love - Aug 15, 2004 4:45 pm (#1307 of 2923)
Archangel - I also just read the interview and am surprised the JKR posted the questions "Why didn't Voldemort die when he attacked Harry and Why didn't DD kill Voldemort in OoP when he had a chance?"
Maybe Voldemort didn't die because the effect of the spell reversing on him was weakend making him nearly-dead but not dead-dead. I wonder if Harry will end up nearly-dead too? Maybe JKR will have him recover though, without the need to concoct a strange potion of other people's blood and body parts, because he is so loved by people who have left him and those in his immediate life. Maybe Aunt Petunia will finally admit she really does care for Harry. By having a blood relative admit this will pull him through.
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 9:33 pm (#1308 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hey True Love! Fine point, this topic is actually under discussion in the JKR Edinburgh thread. I'm pretty sure I read a post there advocating the same thing.
This is just another thought that occured to me. Doesn't anyone think that two years would be too short for a battle that is a great as the Second War? Is this possibly where a time turner can be brought into focus? I know in PoA, Hermione's time turner only showed the ability to go back into the past but I was wondering if there are similar devices that allow the user to go into the future. What do you think?
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penguin patronus - Aug 15, 2004 10:07 pm (#1309 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
Archangel, I bet you're right. There probably are things to go into the future. Maybe the time turner can! She said it could go back in time, yes, but she never said that it couldn't go in the future. B.T.W., archangel, I also like X-men.
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Ronan - Aug 16, 2004 4:55 am (#1310 of 2923)
Going back to who the HBP might be, I have a new theory after reading JKR's answer in Edimburgh. It's Blaise Zabini! OK, so it's a bit of a wild guess
Ideas to support this theory: 1. Her answer was shockingly short and concise. That makes me think she didn't want to let anything slip. 2. There is no known DE whose name is Zabini. Since DEs are mainly purebloods, that could mean Blaise is one of those non-purebloods Slytherin students. 3. He has what sounds like an anglo-saxon name, Blaise, and an italian sounding surname, Zabini. Could this point to a mixed parentage?
In any case, it's so funny reading theories about almost everyone in the books being the HBP =) I just can't wait to know the truth!!
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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 16, 2004 6:53 am (#1311 of 2923)
What about this new mystery character from JKR's website? I wonder if we've seen him before...
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narisa - Aug 16, 2004 7:21 am (#1312 of 2923)
Who is Blaise Zabini? I can't remember him.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 16, 2004 7:22 am (#1313 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Check the Mystery Slytherin thread :-)
I too was asking myself that question.
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Sara Elizabeth - Aug 16, 2004 8:07 am (#1314 of 2923)
My memory is foggy regarding GofF, but doesn't LV kill his half-brother along with his father? That got me thinking maybe that boy came back as a ghost and he could be the half blood prince, but I now I am thinking about it and that would be impossible. He would have to be a pure muggle, wouldn't he? But maybe LV's mother had another child with a different muggle in her past. If that person could be the HBP it could possible give us an excuse to learn more about LV's past. What do you think?
Sara
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 8:51 am (#1315 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
My memory is foggy regarding GofF, but doesn't LV kill his half-brother along with his father?
No, as far as I recall he killed three persons: his father, and his father's parents.
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True Love - Aug 16, 2004 2:41 pm (#1316 of 2923)
ArcAngel - to say "two years would be too short for a battle that is a great as the Second War" we have to remember what was great about the 2nd War. I think one reason it was deemed great was because it involved so many countries - it may not have to do with the time it took to fight the war but the strength of the opposing forces. It was truly a "world" war. The battle in the next two books will probably encompass all the players we've read about - the centaurs, goblins, giants, etc. It won't just be good wizards against bad wizards.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 16, 2004 5:27 pm (#1317 of 2923)
he had a son??
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Madam Pince - Aug 16, 2004 5:59 pm (#1318 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I haven't read every single post in this thread (I left off at about #600 and can't get to it right now, but I will!) but I wanted to throw this out before I forget it. This idea came to me after reading JKR's Edinburgh chat -- when someone asked did Voldy ever love anyone, and she replied 'no, but that leads us to the half-blood prince.' (paraphrasing here)
Made me think.... are we positive that Tom Riddle didn't have a twin brother who was born minutes before he was? It's possible he might not even be aware of the brother's existance. What if this person was the Half-Blood Prince?
Connecting it to JKR's chat 'clue', Riddle/Voldemort didn't love anyone, because his mother died at his birth, but had she lived he might have loved her. She may have been royalty. And so he likewise might love a brother, if he knew he had one, and said brother was also magical like himself (he obviously wouldn't love a muggle.)
Don't know how he'd feel about a brother who was older and therefore more in line for a "prince" title than he was, though. Hmmmm. Well, it's a thought anyway.
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Star Crossed - Aug 16, 2004 6:07 pm (#1319 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If he had a twin, wouldn't they both go to the orphanage, and both go to Hogwarts at the same time?
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Ann - Aug 16, 2004 6:09 pm (#1320 of 2923)
A very interesting idea, Madame Pince. But Voldemort would have to know--a magical twin brother would have been at Hogwarts with him.
But I was also struck by her statement about the connection between Voldemort never loving anyone leading to Book 6. What she actually said is "It is a good question, because it leads us rather neatly to Half Blood Prince, although I repeat for the millionth time that Voldemort is not the half blood prince...." Notice the distinction between "Half Blood Prince," capitalized, with no "the," and the mention of the prince himself immediately following. (I wonder if she is really that careful when she is talking, or whether she edited the transcript?)
Edit: Great minds thinking alike, again!
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Madam Pince - Aug 16, 2004 6:30 pm (#1321 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Good point, Ann. Meaning the thought led her to "HBP" (the book) rather than hbp (the person.) Still, the idea of "love" leads somehow into Book 6. (See - it really should have been called the Pillar of Storge! ha-ha)
A magical twin brother of Tom Riddle could conceivably have been sent off to live in France or Russia or somewhere, and therefore could've gone to Beauxbatons or Durmstrang rather than Hogwarts, possibly. Although it does seem weird that twins would've been separated. Well, this was admittedly a long stretch -- it just popped into my mind.
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***Madam Pince goes off to make up an extremely lengthy fan fiction which would neatly explain how some random wizard -- oooh, oooh maybe Grindelwald! -- snatched away the twin that was the HBP and whisked him away to a Durmstrang-ish country for some nefarious purpose yet to be explained. **** *****whistling merrily****
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remiden - Aug 16, 2004 7:00 pm (#1322 of 2923)
I think the Half Blood Prince could very well be Nicholas Flammel. JKR has never said that the HBP was not in the earlier books, just that the HBP thread was taken out of CoS. In SS, it mentions Flammel and Dumbledore discovering the 12 uses for Dragon's blood, and someone posted in another thread that the watch was possibly a alchemists watch, it got me thinking. Besides, after reading the paragraph behind the door, I could see Flammel fitting that description.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 16, 2004 7:10 pm (#1323 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
remiden, now that is an interesting idea! Dumbledore never told Harry Flammel died, just that he had enough elixir to "get his affairs in order" (quoting off the top of my head). I haven't even connected him with the HBP idea, just as a "loose end"...
Wanders off to ponder...
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Cezar Salem - Aug 16, 2004 8:00 pm (#1324 of 2923)
I asked before and was ignored... Please, would somebody that nows how to please post here, a shot of the "edits page" before it loads up completly? PRETTY PLEASE???
Edit: I posted this on the JKsite thread and oncee again, ignored(Am I sencing a consperacy here?), so in my desperate atempt of habing help I decided to try my fortunes elswhere(as said by dear Umbridge to Trelawany,expect I think it was fortunteelings instead of fortune...)
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 8:13 pm (#1325 of 2923)
Gryffindor
For those of you interested in what I think is a major clue about who the Half Blood Prince is, look on the newly updated Rowling website. Choose Sibyll's teacup, Extra Stuff. Stare at the text on the bulletin board as the accoutrements arrive on the link. The clue will be quickly covered by a blank piece of paper. I love it!!!!
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Madame Librarian - Aug 16, 2004 8:32 pm (#1326 of 2923)
I can't "see" things that fast, Hollywand. The Evelyn Wood speedreading course has been discontinued for years. I will try to see the still shot that supposedly is at HPana. Up till now I've been busy staring at the schematic drawing on the other side of center. (Sigh)
Ciao. Barb
Edit--Oh, fooey! I just was on HPana and there wasn't anything that "froze" the bulletin board page without the drop-downs. Harrummmph.
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 8:56 pm (#1327 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Thanks for trying, Madame Librarian! I put on my magnifying reading glasses and stare at the spot as the link is opening up. I just happened to catch the text out of my peripherial vision, and thought, "What the...did I just see what I thought I saw?" So I recommend a pair of reading glasses and staring at the spot to the left as the link opens and as it closes. I think it's just brilliant! ;-)
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Madame Librarian - Aug 16, 2004 9:04 pm (#1328 of 2923)
Hollywand, you're a better woman (right, a woman?) than I. I already have on my glasses. I'm too tired to pursue it now. I'll try again tomorrow as I am eager to see what you see. If I can't get it, a few people have offered to try to copy it, so I'll wait for that.
Do you think JKR does the website puzzle stuff herself? Naah, she probably has a webmeister "translate" her clever and devious tricks into gimmicks on her site. I mean, if she did this all herself, she'd have no time to write!
You know, I'm so tired, I didn't realize that we're chatting away about the site and puzzles on the wrong thread! Last thing I thought I was on the JKR website thread. Sorry guys.
I must sleep! Good night, all.
Ciao. Barb
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 16, 2004 9:26 pm (#1329 of 2923)
I managed to print the page before the bulletin board came up (all I did was press control p and let it print on my printer). If you are talking about the piece of paper over her honorary degree that later gets covered by the blank paper that (after using the "revealer") has potions ingredients on it... all it says, as far as I can make out, is:
Sorting Hat Description (at least I think the word is description) "You might belong in Gryffindor, Where dwell the brave of heart. Their daring, nerve, and chivalry Set Gryffindors apart.
This is solely from the first sorting hat song. There are other words next to it. Gryffindor is circled with a line connecting it to another circle. I believe the letters "HB" are inside this circle. Something is above Gryffindor, but I can't make it out; it looks to start with a capitol "H". I believe the top of the paper says Hogwarts.
There is a taped-up peice of paper that does not get covered later with words I cannot read on it.
If you are seeing something I am not... please enlighten me. If I'm not mistaken, the Gryffindor-HB thing has been there for awhile, though I am hardly a reliable resource.
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 9:33 pm (#1330 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Nope, L cubed, that's the clue. Haven't seen that name and HB together before on her bulletin board. I could be wrong, but I think that's new information. Thanks for the confirmation. Cheers!!!
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 16, 2004 9:36 pm (#1331 of 2923)
Anytime, Hollywand! That's what happens when you find out that the door has opened at 12:30 at night... I can't go to sleep before I have exhausted every possibility of new information.
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Madam Pince - Aug 16, 2004 9:45 pm (#1332 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Well, given that information, I may revise my earlier assumption that her new tidbit on her website refers to Aberforth Dumbledore. It could certainly be Godric Gryffindor, being seen by Harry in a Pensieve or something. And Gryffindor could surely be the Half Blood Prince.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 16, 2004 9:47 pm (#1333 of 2923)
That was my original assumption, too. I have yet to hear or think of a convincing theory (except, perhaps, the graveyard/mausoleum idea) as to how Harry could find this out and interact with him, though.
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Archangel - Aug 16, 2004 9:55 pm (#1334 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
How about time travel?
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 10:00 pm (#1335 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Archangel, on the Alchemy thread you posted the Rosicrucian transformation manuscript. One of the steps is that the crown of the spirit descends on the new physical person. I bet Rowling works this metaphor into the mix. Harry puts on the Sorting Hat, that,after all, has the gift of brains from Godric Griffindor... think it's plausible?
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Archangel - Aug 16, 2004 10:07 pm (#1336 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Nice point Hollywand! Perhaps Godric gave the Sorting Hat some of its select memories possibly regarding the school, the founders' rift, the wizard royal family, etc. that Harry could possibly access since he has proven that he is a "true Gryffindor".
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Ethelred the Unready - Aug 17, 2004 3:18 am (#1337 of 2923)
We know thet the HBP story was lifted out Cos, so the question is where could it have fit into the story. I think that it could have been when Harry first thought of as the Heir of Slytherin. The trio could have easily gone off to find out if he was, and then met the half-blood prince who would tell Harry about his family and the story of Tom Riddle's birth and give Harry the clues he needs to get rid of Voldemort.
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Ann - Aug 17, 2004 6:34 am (#1338 of 2923)
The "Sorting Hat Description" with the verse about Gryffindor has been on the bulletin board from the beginning. (Someone posted a screen shot of it on the web site thread a long time ago.) The letters in the little circle attached to Gryffindor are a bit blurry, but I seem to remember deciding that it was just HP, in other words, Harry's sorting into Gryffindor. That is what it looks like when you blow up the screen shot. I've tried to check the actual web site again, but I can't get into the site this morning, and I can never see the underneath stuff very well anyway, since I got DSL. But I don't think it is the Half Blood Prince, although I remember thinking so, too, at first.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 17, 2004 6:42 am (#1339 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
That's also what I'm seeing Ann. And going cross-eyed doing it! The letters in the circle are HP.
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Archangel - Aug 17, 2004 6:52 am (#1340 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
ArcAngel - to say "two years would be too short for a battle that is a great as the Second War" we have to remember what was great about the 2nd War. I think one reason it was deemed great was because it involved so many countries - it may not have to do with the time it took to fight the war but the strength of the opposing forces. It was truly a "world" war. The battle in the next two books will probably encompass all the players we've read about - the centaurs, goblins, giants, etc. It won't just be good wizards against bad wizards. -- True Love
Yep, that's a good point True Love. However, IMO two years would still be a very, very short a time for the events to play themselves out -- i.e all these beings bonding together for a common cause (it'll take really some thing great or terrible at the start of HBP for this to be expediated); the actually fighting takes place between the "allied forces" and "Dark Army" **sniggers**; for the stories of the war casualties, etc.; and for the fighting to reach its climax to final showdown between Harry and Voldemort -- hence my suggestion that a time turner could be re-introduced in the remaining books.
Penguin Patronus -- alright!!!
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Ann - Aug 17, 2004 7:05 am (#1341 of 2923)
Archangel, I'm not saying the time turners won't be used, but there is a practical consideration: when someone uses a time turner, as in PoA, JKR has to go back over the same ground twice. And these days it seems to take her almost 800 pages to get through the school year even without repeating parts of it!
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Madame Librarian - Aug 17, 2004 9:15 am (#1342 of 2923)
Loony L.L, thank you so much! What you described is a big clue, and you seemed to do a nice clear job of telling us what was there.
Ciao. Barb
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remiden - Aug 17, 2004 1:27 pm (#1343 of 2923)
I definately says HP and has been there all along. Wishfull thinking. You didn't really think that JKR would simply put it right there for anyone to see after she has so carefully laid her clues in the books and the movies did you?
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Scarlett Phoenix - Aug 17, 2004 2:36 pm (#1344 of 2923)
Thoughts running through my head......
It was not prophesized that Dumbledore was to Kill LV... ( We know that's Harry's job) But what if there was ANOTHER prophecy telling of LV's rise to power and DD having also heard that one -- knew that it would happen anyway no matter if he interfered with TR or not. JKR says TR/LV never loved anyone, BUT what if someone loved him?? DD could have made the same mistake with TR as he did with Harry. He loved him too much to kill him at the MoM. Could DD be related to LV in some way?? Say : Great Great Grandfather meaning TR/LV's mom was DD's great granddaughter? Could LV be afraid of DD because DD loves him?? Why doesn't DD address Voldemort directly to his face as Voldemort but calls him Tom?? hmmmm things to ponder
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 17, 2004 9:25 pm (#1345 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
What house was DD sorted into? Are we ever told?
Mikie
Thanks, Joelle and Archangel.
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Joelle - Aug 17, 2004 9:31 pm (#1346 of 2923)
JKR said Gryiffindor for Dumbeldore's house. I got that off of her website as I last recall
-J
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Archangel - Aug 17, 2004 9:34 pm (#1347 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hermione (or was that Percy) said something about DD being sorted in the Gryffindor house as well in PS/SS.
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green shoes - Aug 18, 2004 12:08 am (#1348 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
The half-blood prince is Godric Gryffindor. It just all makes sense. Especially because of the fact that the thread about the half-blood prince was taken out of the COS. It would've made perfect sense for Harry to find out that HE was Gryffindor's heir in that book, except for the fact that having Harry find out THEN would have taken away from the already very strong plot about Salazar, and his heir, Lord Voldemort. That is probably the reason she decided to save it until later. Also the fact that Harry is more mature now, and he is much more ready to hear that he is Godric's heir. When he pulled the sword out of the sorting hat in COS (which was GODRIC's hat, I might add,) Dumbledore told him that only a 'TRUE gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat.' I think he literally MEANT a TRUE gryffindor. Another BIG clue as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that Lilly and James chose to hide in a place called 'Godric's Hollow.' Probably because James was in his blood line, and the place would've given them extra protection...hmm...
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remiden - Aug 18, 2004 4:46 am (#1349 of 2923)
Well Green Shoes, considering that we know absolutely nothing about the Half Blood Prince, and considering that whether or not Harry is indeed Gryffendor's heir will actually have any bearing ont he story at all, and considering that the HBP may or may not have anything to do with Harry being Gryffindor's heir, if you consider all that, then make a 25-30 assumptions, then sure, it all makes sense.
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Nyx Megumi - Aug 18, 2004 10:24 am (#1350 of 2923)
I am Nyx, Goddess of night, ruler of cats and manipulator of fire!!!
Why doesn't DD address Voldemort directly to his face as Voldemort but calls him Tom?? - Scarlett Phoenix
I'm pretty sure Dumbledore calls Voldemort "Tom" simply because of the fact that Dumbledore was formerly his Transfiguration teacher, and that's what he called him then. Perhaps he's in that way trying to show superiority to Voldemort.
By the way, I'm new to this forum. I hope you'll treat me well!
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Toonwarrior, you asked: Is there really a hyphen on between half and blood?
No, not in the book 6 title as it's been shown on Jo's website and in the press. That's my point. In the previous books' the terms half-blood and pure-blood are hyphenated, indicating without a doubt that the term half refers to the blood, not the noun following (e.g., half-blood wizard), whereas without the hyphen, the situation is a bit foggier--the word half could modify blood or prince or Blood Prince) that being a title (usage example: Oh, I say, I had tea with that charming guy, you know, the new Blood Prince.).
For an extensive and well-researched discussion of all the fine points of grammar on this gnarly little hyphen issue, use the search tool on this thread for the posts relating to hyphens. As I recall, there are excellent explanations of the "rules." We came to no solid conclusion, but the sticklers amongst us (and we hope Jo and her editors are of the same stripe) feel that it was a definite move on her part to omit the hyphen in that title, not arbitrary or a mistake.
Happy hyphen hunting!
Ciao. Barb
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 15, 2004 6:33 am (#1302 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
A few questions for the group:
1. The jewels in the sword. Harry believes them to be rubies. Could they possibly be pieces of the sorcerers stone which was destroyed in the 1st book? Could the sword which is mentioned in all of the following books be pivotal in the conclusion of the story?
2. We have all had a good laugh about Colin Creevey's father being a milkman. But what do we know about his mother. Colin has never to my limited knowledge discussed her or what her backround might be. Half-blood Prince?
3. Harry's father James is said to have inherited his money. From whom? What did Harry's ancestor's do or what position did they hold to accumulate all of that money?
Mikie
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 6:48 am (#1303 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Edited by Aug 15, 2004 7:08 am
You raise a nice point in Q#3 Mikie. I've always gotten the impression that the Potters were quite well-off. They could be "Old Money" but I'm inclined to think that they were more of "New Money". Maybe they got to be rich because of their skills rather than their name you know. They could have owned a lot of profitable businesses for all we know.
Anyway, just finished reading the article about JKR's thing in Edinburgh and she mentioned there that the two important things to ask are: Why didn't Voldemort die when he attacked Harry and Why didn't DD kill Voldemort in OoP when he had a chance? Here's the link to the article. Cheers!
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 15, 2004 7:06 am (#1304 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Archangel - It is stated somewhere(I can't remember where)that James inherited the money.
Another question comes to mind.
At the end of GoF we are told that Voldemorts use of Harry's blood "removes that barrier". Doesn't that infer that the where "his mother's blood dwells" barrier is removed or is DD referring to another of the charms which Harry carries?
Mikie
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 7:10 am (#1305 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
I thought of that as something to do with the ability to touch Harry freely since he was unable to do in PS/SS via Quirrell because of his mother's protection.
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Fawkes Egg - Aug 15, 2004 1:25 pm (#1306 of 2923)
Lost bird caught in mid-migration, far away to a foreign land. -- Feel It Turn, by Great Big Sea.
Y'know, there's always been a great deal made of Lily sacrificing her life for Harry in the books, all tied to the need for Harry to stay with Petunia for at least part of the summer. But what about James' sacrifice? There may be no living Potters to whom Harry could go for safety. but perhaps some of the charms Harry has protecting him come from his father as well as his mother. Lupin even says it in PoA when he covers for Harry and Ron with the Marauders' Map: "Your parents sacrificed their lives for you." As far as I can recall, he's the only one who ever acknowledges James' sacrifice alongside Lily's.
And if the Potter dynasty is New Money, so to speak, perhaps the half-blood angle could come from there too. Perhaps the influence of a half-blooded Potter ancestor coming into Harry's life now that Sirius is gone? Or perhaps the link between Harry and Godric is through the Potter side of his family?
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True Love - Aug 15, 2004 4:45 pm (#1307 of 2923)
Archangel - I also just read the interview and am surprised the JKR posted the questions "Why didn't Voldemort die when he attacked Harry and Why didn't DD kill Voldemort in OoP when he had a chance?"
Maybe Voldemort didn't die because the effect of the spell reversing on him was weakend making him nearly-dead but not dead-dead. I wonder if Harry will end up nearly-dead too? Maybe JKR will have him recover though, without the need to concoct a strange potion of other people's blood and body parts, because he is so loved by people who have left him and those in his immediate life. Maybe Aunt Petunia will finally admit she really does care for Harry. By having a blood relative admit this will pull him through.
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Archangel - Aug 15, 2004 9:33 pm (#1308 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hey True Love! Fine point, this topic is actually under discussion in the JKR Edinburgh thread. I'm pretty sure I read a post there advocating the same thing.
This is just another thought that occured to me. Doesn't anyone think that two years would be too short for a battle that is a great as the Second War? Is this possibly where a time turner can be brought into focus? I know in PoA, Hermione's time turner only showed the ability to go back into the past but I was wondering if there are similar devices that allow the user to go into the future. What do you think?
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penguin patronus - Aug 15, 2004 10:07 pm (#1309 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
Archangel, I bet you're right. There probably are things to go into the future. Maybe the time turner can! She said it could go back in time, yes, but she never said that it couldn't go in the future. B.T.W., archangel, I also like X-men.
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Ronan - Aug 16, 2004 4:55 am (#1310 of 2923)
Going back to who the HBP might be, I have a new theory after reading JKR's answer in Edimburgh. It's Blaise Zabini! OK, so it's a bit of a wild guess
Ideas to support this theory: 1. Her answer was shockingly short and concise. That makes me think she didn't want to let anything slip. 2. There is no known DE whose name is Zabini. Since DEs are mainly purebloods, that could mean Blaise is one of those non-purebloods Slytherin students. 3. He has what sounds like an anglo-saxon name, Blaise, and an italian sounding surname, Zabini. Could this point to a mixed parentage?
In any case, it's so funny reading theories about almost everyone in the books being the HBP =) I just can't wait to know the truth!!
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aberforth dumbledore's #1 fan - Aug 16, 2004 6:53 am (#1311 of 2923)
What about this new mystery character from JKR's website? I wonder if we've seen him before...
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narisa - Aug 16, 2004 7:21 am (#1312 of 2923)
Who is Blaise Zabini? I can't remember him.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 16, 2004 7:22 am (#1313 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Check the Mystery Slytherin thread :-)
I too was asking myself that question.
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Sara Elizabeth - Aug 16, 2004 8:07 am (#1314 of 2923)
My memory is foggy regarding GofF, but doesn't LV kill his half-brother along with his father? That got me thinking maybe that boy came back as a ghost and he could be the half blood prince, but I now I am thinking about it and that would be impossible. He would have to be a pure muggle, wouldn't he? But maybe LV's mother had another child with a different muggle in her past. If that person could be the HBP it could possible give us an excuse to learn more about LV's past. What do you think?
Sara
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The One - Aug 16, 2004 8:51 am (#1315 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
My memory is foggy regarding GofF, but doesn't LV kill his half-brother along with his father?
No, as far as I recall he killed three persons: his father, and his father's parents.
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True Love - Aug 16, 2004 2:41 pm (#1316 of 2923)
ArcAngel - to say "two years would be too short for a battle that is a great as the Second War" we have to remember what was great about the 2nd War. I think one reason it was deemed great was because it involved so many countries - it may not have to do with the time it took to fight the war but the strength of the opposing forces. It was truly a "world" war. The battle in the next two books will probably encompass all the players we've read about - the centaurs, goblins, giants, etc. It won't just be good wizards against bad wizards.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 16, 2004 5:27 pm (#1317 of 2923)
he had a son??
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Madam Pince - Aug 16, 2004 5:59 pm (#1318 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I haven't read every single post in this thread (I left off at about #600 and can't get to it right now, but I will!) but I wanted to throw this out before I forget it. This idea came to me after reading JKR's Edinburgh chat -- when someone asked did Voldy ever love anyone, and she replied 'no, but that leads us to the half-blood prince.' (paraphrasing here)
Made me think.... are we positive that Tom Riddle didn't have a twin brother who was born minutes before he was? It's possible he might not even be aware of the brother's existance. What if this person was the Half-Blood Prince?
Connecting it to JKR's chat 'clue', Riddle/Voldemort didn't love anyone, because his mother died at his birth, but had she lived he might have loved her. She may have been royalty. And so he likewise might love a brother, if he knew he had one, and said brother was also magical like himself (he obviously wouldn't love a muggle.)
Don't know how he'd feel about a brother who was older and therefore more in line for a "prince" title than he was, though. Hmmmm. Well, it's a thought anyway.
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Star Crossed - Aug 16, 2004 6:07 pm (#1319 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If he had a twin, wouldn't they both go to the orphanage, and both go to Hogwarts at the same time?
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Ann - Aug 16, 2004 6:09 pm (#1320 of 2923)
A very interesting idea, Madame Pince. But Voldemort would have to know--a magical twin brother would have been at Hogwarts with him.
But I was also struck by her statement about the connection between Voldemort never loving anyone leading to Book 6. What she actually said is "It is a good question, because it leads us rather neatly to Half Blood Prince, although I repeat for the millionth time that Voldemort is not the half blood prince...." Notice the distinction between "Half Blood Prince," capitalized, with no "the," and the mention of the prince himself immediately following. (I wonder if she is really that careful when she is talking, or whether she edited the transcript?)
Edit: Great minds thinking alike, again!
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Madam Pince - Aug 16, 2004 6:30 pm (#1321 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Good point, Ann. Meaning the thought led her to "HBP" (the book) rather than hbp (the person.) Still, the idea of "love" leads somehow into Book 6. (See - it really should have been called the Pillar of Storge! ha-ha)
A magical twin brother of Tom Riddle could conceivably have been sent off to live in France or Russia or somewhere, and therefore could've gone to Beauxbatons or Durmstrang rather than Hogwarts, possibly. Although it does seem weird that twins would've been separated. Well, this was admittedly a long stretch -- it just popped into my mind.
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***Madam Pince goes off to make up an extremely lengthy fan fiction which would neatly explain how some random wizard -- oooh, oooh maybe Grindelwald! -- snatched away the twin that was the HBP and whisked him away to a Durmstrang-ish country for some nefarious purpose yet to be explained. **** *****whistling merrily****
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remiden - Aug 16, 2004 7:00 pm (#1322 of 2923)
I think the Half Blood Prince could very well be Nicholas Flammel. JKR has never said that the HBP was not in the earlier books, just that the HBP thread was taken out of CoS. In SS, it mentions Flammel and Dumbledore discovering the 12 uses for Dragon's blood, and someone posted in another thread that the watch was possibly a alchemists watch, it got me thinking. Besides, after reading the paragraph behind the door, I could see Flammel fitting that description.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 16, 2004 7:10 pm (#1323 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
remiden, now that is an interesting idea! Dumbledore never told Harry Flammel died, just that he had enough elixir to "get his affairs in order" (quoting off the top of my head). I haven't even connected him with the HBP idea, just as a "loose end"...
Wanders off to ponder...
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Cezar Salem - Aug 16, 2004 8:00 pm (#1324 of 2923)
I asked before and was ignored... Please, would somebody that nows how to please post here, a shot of the "edits page" before it loads up completly? PRETTY PLEASE???
Edit: I posted this on the JKsite thread and oncee again, ignored(Am I sencing a consperacy here?), so in my desperate atempt of habing help I decided to try my fortunes elswhere(as said by dear Umbridge to Trelawany,expect I think it was fortunteelings instead of fortune...)
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 8:13 pm (#1325 of 2923)
Gryffindor
For those of you interested in what I think is a major clue about who the Half Blood Prince is, look on the newly updated Rowling website. Choose Sibyll's teacup, Extra Stuff. Stare at the text on the bulletin board as the accoutrements arrive on the link. The clue will be quickly covered by a blank piece of paper. I love it!!!!
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Madame Librarian - Aug 16, 2004 8:32 pm (#1326 of 2923)
I can't "see" things that fast, Hollywand. The Evelyn Wood speedreading course has been discontinued for years. I will try to see the still shot that supposedly is at HPana. Up till now I've been busy staring at the schematic drawing on the other side of center. (Sigh)
Ciao. Barb
Edit--Oh, fooey! I just was on HPana and there wasn't anything that "froze" the bulletin board page without the drop-downs. Harrummmph.
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 8:56 pm (#1327 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Thanks for trying, Madame Librarian! I put on my magnifying reading glasses and stare at the spot as the link is opening up. I just happened to catch the text out of my peripherial vision, and thought, "What the...did I just see what I thought I saw?" So I recommend a pair of reading glasses and staring at the spot to the left as the link opens and as it closes. I think it's just brilliant! ;-)
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Madame Librarian - Aug 16, 2004 9:04 pm (#1328 of 2923)
Hollywand, you're a better woman (right, a woman?) than I. I already have on my glasses. I'm too tired to pursue it now. I'll try again tomorrow as I am eager to see what you see. If I can't get it, a few people have offered to try to copy it, so I'll wait for that.
Do you think JKR does the website puzzle stuff herself? Naah, she probably has a webmeister "translate" her clever and devious tricks into gimmicks on her site. I mean, if she did this all herself, she'd have no time to write!
You know, I'm so tired, I didn't realize that we're chatting away about the site and puzzles on the wrong thread! Last thing I thought I was on the JKR website thread. Sorry guys.
I must sleep! Good night, all.
Ciao. Barb
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 16, 2004 9:26 pm (#1329 of 2923)
I managed to print the page before the bulletin board came up (all I did was press control p and let it print on my printer). If you are talking about the piece of paper over her honorary degree that later gets covered by the blank paper that (after using the "revealer") has potions ingredients on it... all it says, as far as I can make out, is:
Sorting Hat Description (at least I think the word is description) "You might belong in Gryffindor, Where dwell the brave of heart. Their daring, nerve, and chivalry Set Gryffindors apart.
This is solely from the first sorting hat song. There are other words next to it. Gryffindor is circled with a line connecting it to another circle. I believe the letters "HB" are inside this circle. Something is above Gryffindor, but I can't make it out; it looks to start with a capitol "H". I believe the top of the paper says Hogwarts.
There is a taped-up peice of paper that does not get covered later with words I cannot read on it.
If you are seeing something I am not... please enlighten me. If I'm not mistaken, the Gryffindor-HB thing has been there for awhile, though I am hardly a reliable resource.
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 9:33 pm (#1330 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Nope, L cubed, that's the clue. Haven't seen that name and HB together before on her bulletin board. I could be wrong, but I think that's new information. Thanks for the confirmation. Cheers!!!
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 16, 2004 9:36 pm (#1331 of 2923)
Anytime, Hollywand! That's what happens when you find out that the door has opened at 12:30 at night... I can't go to sleep before I have exhausted every possibility of new information.
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Madam Pince - Aug 16, 2004 9:45 pm (#1332 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Well, given that information, I may revise my earlier assumption that her new tidbit on her website refers to Aberforth Dumbledore. It could certainly be Godric Gryffindor, being seen by Harry in a Pensieve or something. And Gryffindor could surely be the Half Blood Prince.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 16, 2004 9:47 pm (#1333 of 2923)
That was my original assumption, too. I have yet to hear or think of a convincing theory (except, perhaps, the graveyard/mausoleum idea) as to how Harry could find this out and interact with him, though.
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Archangel - Aug 16, 2004 9:55 pm (#1334 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
How about time travel?
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Hollywand - Aug 16, 2004 10:00 pm (#1335 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Archangel, on the Alchemy thread you posted the Rosicrucian transformation manuscript. One of the steps is that the crown of the spirit descends on the new physical person. I bet Rowling works this metaphor into the mix. Harry puts on the Sorting Hat, that,after all, has the gift of brains from Godric Griffindor... think it's plausible?
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Archangel - Aug 16, 2004 10:07 pm (#1336 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Nice point Hollywand! Perhaps Godric gave the Sorting Hat some of its select memories possibly regarding the school, the founders' rift, the wizard royal family, etc. that Harry could possibly access since he has proven that he is a "true Gryffindor".
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Ethelred the Unready - Aug 17, 2004 3:18 am (#1337 of 2923)
We know thet the HBP story was lifted out Cos, so the question is where could it have fit into the story. I think that it could have been when Harry first thought of as the Heir of Slytherin. The trio could have easily gone off to find out if he was, and then met the half-blood prince who would tell Harry about his family and the story of Tom Riddle's birth and give Harry the clues he needs to get rid of Voldemort.
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Ann - Aug 17, 2004 6:34 am (#1338 of 2923)
The "Sorting Hat Description" with the verse about Gryffindor has been on the bulletin board from the beginning. (Someone posted a screen shot of it on the web site thread a long time ago.) The letters in the little circle attached to Gryffindor are a bit blurry, but I seem to remember deciding that it was just HP, in other words, Harry's sorting into Gryffindor. That is what it looks like when you blow up the screen shot. I've tried to check the actual web site again, but I can't get into the site this morning, and I can never see the underneath stuff very well anyway, since I got DSL. But I don't think it is the Half Blood Prince, although I remember thinking so, too, at first.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 17, 2004 6:42 am (#1339 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
That's also what I'm seeing Ann. And going cross-eyed doing it! The letters in the circle are HP.
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Archangel - Aug 17, 2004 6:52 am (#1340 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
ArcAngel - to say "two years would be too short for a battle that is a great as the Second War" we have to remember what was great about the 2nd War. I think one reason it was deemed great was because it involved so many countries - it may not have to do with the time it took to fight the war but the strength of the opposing forces. It was truly a "world" war. The battle in the next two books will probably encompass all the players we've read about - the centaurs, goblins, giants, etc. It won't just be good wizards against bad wizards. -- True Love
Yep, that's a good point True Love. However, IMO two years would still be a very, very short a time for the events to play themselves out -- i.e all these beings bonding together for a common cause (it'll take really some thing great or terrible at the start of HBP for this to be expediated); the actually fighting takes place between the "allied forces" and "Dark Army" **sniggers**; for the stories of the war casualties, etc.; and for the fighting to reach its climax to final showdown between Harry and Voldemort -- hence my suggestion that a time turner could be re-introduced in the remaining books.
Penguin Patronus -- alright!!!
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Ann - Aug 17, 2004 7:05 am (#1341 of 2923)
Archangel, I'm not saying the time turners won't be used, but there is a practical consideration: when someone uses a time turner, as in PoA, JKR has to go back over the same ground twice. And these days it seems to take her almost 800 pages to get through the school year even without repeating parts of it!
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Madame Librarian - Aug 17, 2004 9:15 am (#1342 of 2923)
Loony L.L, thank you so much! What you described is a big clue, and you seemed to do a nice clear job of telling us what was there.
Ciao. Barb
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remiden - Aug 17, 2004 1:27 pm (#1343 of 2923)
I definately says HP and has been there all along. Wishfull thinking. You didn't really think that JKR would simply put it right there for anyone to see after she has so carefully laid her clues in the books and the movies did you?
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Scarlett Phoenix - Aug 17, 2004 2:36 pm (#1344 of 2923)
Thoughts running through my head......
It was not prophesized that Dumbledore was to Kill LV... ( We know that's Harry's job) But what if there was ANOTHER prophecy telling of LV's rise to power and DD having also heard that one -- knew that it would happen anyway no matter if he interfered with TR or not. JKR says TR/LV never loved anyone, BUT what if someone loved him?? DD could have made the same mistake with TR as he did with Harry. He loved him too much to kill him at the MoM. Could DD be related to LV in some way?? Say : Great Great Grandfather meaning TR/LV's mom was DD's great granddaughter? Could LV be afraid of DD because DD loves him?? Why doesn't DD address Voldemort directly to his face as Voldemort but calls him Tom?? hmmmm things to ponder
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 17, 2004 9:25 pm (#1345 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
What house was DD sorted into? Are we ever told?
Mikie
Thanks, Joelle and Archangel.
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Joelle - Aug 17, 2004 9:31 pm (#1346 of 2923)
JKR said Gryiffindor for Dumbeldore's house. I got that off of her website as I last recall
-J
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Archangel - Aug 17, 2004 9:34 pm (#1347 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
Hermione (or was that Percy) said something about DD being sorted in the Gryffindor house as well in PS/SS.
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green shoes - Aug 18, 2004 12:08 am (#1348 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
The half-blood prince is Godric Gryffindor. It just all makes sense. Especially because of the fact that the thread about the half-blood prince was taken out of the COS. It would've made perfect sense for Harry to find out that HE was Gryffindor's heir in that book, except for the fact that having Harry find out THEN would have taken away from the already very strong plot about Salazar, and his heir, Lord Voldemort. That is probably the reason she decided to save it until later. Also the fact that Harry is more mature now, and he is much more ready to hear that he is Godric's heir. When he pulled the sword out of the sorting hat in COS (which was GODRIC's hat, I might add,) Dumbledore told him that only a 'TRUE gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat.' I think he literally MEANT a TRUE gryffindor. Another BIG clue as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that Lilly and James chose to hide in a place called 'Godric's Hollow.' Probably because James was in his blood line, and the place would've given them extra protection...hmm...
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remiden - Aug 18, 2004 4:46 am (#1349 of 2923)
Well Green Shoes, considering that we know absolutely nothing about the Half Blood Prince, and considering that whether or not Harry is indeed Gryffendor's heir will actually have any bearing ont he story at all, and considering that the HBP may or may not have anything to do with Harry being Gryffindor's heir, if you consider all that, then make a 25-30 assumptions, then sure, it all makes sense.
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Nyx Megumi - Aug 18, 2004 10:24 am (#1350 of 2923)
I am Nyx, Goddess of night, ruler of cats and manipulator of fire!!!
Why doesn't DD address Voldemort directly to his face as Voldemort but calls him Tom?? - Scarlett Phoenix
I'm pretty sure Dumbledore calls Voldemort "Tom" simply because of the fact that Dumbledore was formerly his Transfiguration teacher, and that's what he called him then. Perhaps he's in that way trying to show superiority to Voldemort.
By the way, I'm new to this forum. I hope you'll treat me well!
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1350 to 1400)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:15 am
Belladonna - Aug 18, 2004 11:03 am (#1351 of 2923)
If anyone has been on JKR site lately they could read a passage about the HBP, She gives definite clues.
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Belladonna - Aug 18, 2004 11:05 am (#1352 of 2923)
Maybe he called him Tom to remind Voldemeort that he was once Human.
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Nyx Megumi - Aug 18, 2004 11:18 am (#1353 of 2923)
I am Nyx, Goddess of night, ruler of cats and manipulator of fire!!!
Maybe he called him Tom to remind Voldemeort that he was once Human.
That's a very good point. It actually makes more sense than what I said. Truthfully, I can see DD thinking along the lines of "You're not Voldemort, you're Tom, the boy that I taught in school. Just because you've changed your appearance doesn't mean that you're a different person."
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 11:44 am (#1354 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nyx Megumi, welcome! We treat everyone but ourselves well. You may find when we make a mistake, we iron our hands. ;D
Belladonna, it might not be the HBP, it could be anyone. Also, if you ever need to post something else and it is within 30 minutes, you can edit your post and write what else you want to write. However, that is a good idea about reminding him he was human.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 18, 2004 11:48 am (#1355 of 2923)
He calls him tom because of this :voldemort was a name he created so that when he was the most powerful wizard in the world, people would be so frightined of him that they would never be able to say voldemort. DD refuses to regonginse Voldemort as the best and most frightining wizard alive and calls him tom, as he conseiders him to be a normal wizard... he calls him tom to show his superioty to Voldemort and to show that he is unafraid of him. And to show that his objective of becoming "voldedmort the best wizard" is not achived he is still only tom riddle in the end...Make sence ? I didnt elaborate as best i could... Im realy in a hurry...I was supossed to leave 5 min ago, but couldnt resist a last peek at the forum and to post this message... hehe... but in my defence, who can !?
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Land of the Shire - Aug 18, 2004 12:41 pm (#1356 of 2923)
I'm definitely in the "Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor" camp, stemming mainly from the fact that Harry pulled Gryffindor's sword out of the sorting hat. I recall an king who once pulled a sword out of a stone, thus proving his lineage.
Also, that crack on Jo's website about Mark Evans being the Half-Blood Prince and the Heir of Gryffindor on the Pillar of Storgé was rather telling. Why would she mention the oft-discussed yet so-far non-canon idea of the Heir of Gryffindor unless she were actually to introduce it in one of the next two books?
In addition, I think it rounds out the series nicely if the Harry vs. Voldemort conflict is really an extension of the centuries-old Gryffindor vs. Slytherin conflict. Why make such a big deal about the Heir of Slytherin in CoS if the Heir of Gryffindor was never to show up?
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Nyx Megumi - Aug 18, 2004 1:22 pm (#1357 of 2923)
I am Nyx, Goddess of night, ruler of cats and manipulator of fire!!!
Why would she mention the oft-discussed yet so-far non-canon idea of the Heir of Gryffindor unless she were actually to introduce it in one of the next two books? - Land of the Shire
Perhaps she mentioned it because she found the idea extremely funny, and she just had to make fun of it? I've found that she has done that on a few occasions on her site.
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The One - Aug 18, 2004 2:29 pm (#1358 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
Why make such a big deal about the Heir of Slytherin in CoS if the Heir of Gryffindor was never to show up?
Probably because the Heir idea is an idea about blood line, the heir being a direct descendent of Slytherin. Slytherins are the ones to believe that blood is important, thus they are the ones to want to use such a concept.
Is the concept of the Heir of Slytherin mentioned anywhere but in CoS? I am positive that no other heirs is mentioned anywhere, and I must admit I expect it to continue like this for the remaining two books.
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vball man - Aug 18, 2004 3:25 pm (#1359 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Also, calling him Tom is a bit of disrespect.
Tom chose to rename himself because it was his "filthy muggle father's name."
Each person chooses what they want to be called. If you want to be called "Dan" and everyone insists on calling you "Danny," that would bug you.
So DD calls him "Tom." This says, I don't care what you want to be called. It says, don't forget your muggle father. It says, I remember you when you were in school. It says, you're not so big and bad.
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Belladonna - Aug 18, 2004 3:33 pm (#1360 of 2923)
"Belladonna, it might not be the HBP, it could be anyone". I have not yet mentioned who I believe to be the HBP.
True, star crossed it could be anyone, however I believed she opened the door specifically to give us a HBP clue. If it wasn't for an ingenious fan figuring out the game, and posting it I would never have figured it out. Once you read it, I think it is obvious who it is.
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 4:16 pm (#1361 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think anything is obvious in JKR's world. Who would believe your best friend's pet rat was actually the man who betrayed your parents 12 years ago?
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 18, 2004 5:45 pm (#1362 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I am afraid I must join the GG is HBP crowd. It makes sense, it fits and it feels good. On to the next question. I think we have hashed it out as much as possible now all we have to do is sit back and see if we are right.
That is unless JKR throws out any more clues which hangs us all out to dry. Then we can have a mass oven door slamming on our ears.
Mikie
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KTO - Aug 18, 2004 6:19 pm (#1363 of 2923)
I believe that DD calls LV Tom for the same reason Frodo calls Gollum, Smeagal. Not a sign of disrespect or superiority but as an outstretched hand, you can always come back, you can once again be the boy that you were, you still have a choice, even if you are unable to see it, I am. KTO
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Lady Black99 - Aug 18, 2004 6:35 pm (#1364 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well I have to agree I have for some time now thought that Godric Gryffindor was the "Half-Blood Prince". It would make alot of sense that Slithering and Gryffindor who were once best friends (according to the sorting hat page 204 of Order of the Phoenix) were torn apart because Slytherin's increasing obsession with "Pure Blood's". And I can see how that story line would tie into Chamber of Secrets. I also must point out that J.K. Rowling's new spoiler on her web site describes a person that can in some way shape or form resemble a lion. Well those are my thoughts any ways.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 18, 2004 6:45 pm (#1365 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Oh I almost forgot I also think that a great twist to the plot would be to make Harry Gryffindor's heir and therefore pinning two heirs against each other but I think this is a little far fetched.
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True Love - Aug 18, 2004 7:11 pm (#1366 of 2923)
KTo - I agree "I believe that DD calls LV Tom for the same reason Frodo calls Gollum, Smeagal" This is like Luke calling Vader "father". I wonder if DD will continue to do so - or if he will have the chance.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 18, 2004 7:34 pm (#1367 of 2923)
I can't agree more. I do think GG is the HBP!
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Shanda - Aug 18, 2004 8:51 pm (#1368 of 2923)
Well I didn't want to agree that the HBP is going to be Godric Gryffindor because I wanted it to be a new charactor. JKR is just so good a creating new ones. But after reading all the opinions on why GG should be the HBP I have to agree.
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therealscabbers - Aug 19, 2004 3:42 am (#1369 of 2923)
Petra t
Hi All, Well I have been analysing the quote on JKs site and this is what I have come up with - I too think it refers to the HBP but we dont know it for definite, it does also seem to back up the GG is HBP theory in some way this is my analysis
“He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of gray in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy loping grace even though he walked with a limp”
He – it is a man! Old lion – Griffindor lion? Voldie is described as looking like a serpent so maybe the HBP is related to Griffindor, maybe he is the Heir of Griff?
Streaks of grey – he is old - or at least looks old?
Wire rimmed specs – Good Guy – all people in books who wear glasses are good, no baddies wear glasses (that I can remember) I believe there have been discussions elsewhere about glasses.
Limp – only other person with a limp is MEM pos an arora? but for some reason he hasn't been magically heeled of this impediment, why?
Also just to point out He is described physically and so is a new character, not anyone we have met. Though not necissarily someone we havn't heard about!
He is described in colour so not a ghost (all silvery)
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 19, 2004 4:25 am (#1370 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Good post the real scabbers--I agree with you and will go one step further. I believe he will be McLagan the new character mentioned in the interview and will be the new DADA instructor.
Mikie
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Sara Elizabeth - Aug 19, 2004 8:08 am (#1371 of 2923)
I agree Scabbers. I didn't believe the HBP was GG until I read that quote from behind the door on JKR's Website. Now, I am believer.
Sara
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therealscabbers - Aug 19, 2004 8:28 am (#1372 of 2923)
Petra t
I am still not sure the HBP is GG just his heir - i.e. Harry is not the Heir but the Heir is the HBP and will aid Harry, Dont think he will be the DADA teacher though!
I think McLaggan will be a minor charactor as she only mentioned the name when answering a question about how she comes up with names, said she'd just heard the name and decided to use it, so dont think he will be important (hmmm just been readin the book 5 right wrong predictions thread must make a mental note of these predictions for future ref!! so can kick myself when McLaggen is the main new charachter in HBP!! )
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Czarina II - Aug 19, 2004 9:29 am (#1373 of 2923)
To whomever wanted the HBP to be a new character and is thus reluctant to consider Godric Gryffindor a possibility:
Godric Gryffindor WOULD BE a new character! He hasn't been around before in the series. He has only been mentioned in passing in CoS. Even if only a portrait, ghost, or in flashback, he would be a new character with a personality. Even if he is just talked about, more would be revealed about him and he would be fleshed out more than simply a brave wizard who enchanted his hat, owned a sword, was once best friends with Salazar Slytherin, and came from the wild moor.
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 9:39 am (#1374 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
I am going to guess that the HBP is Aberforth.
Why do I think so? Firstly it goes without saying (so why do I say it) that we simply do not know, so this is guesswork, not evidence..
Firstly HBP and Aberforth is very similar in on way: I both believe them to be important in the future story, but I have no idea how, thus they are similar...
More to the point:
Aberforth is mentioned once in GoF for no good reason, then again in Moody's picture in OotP, and at last we are shown the barkeeper at the Hogs Head and allowed to guess who it is. It seems to be a sneaky way to introduce character that will be important.
The Hogs Head is mentioned already in PS as a somewhat less reputable bar in Hogsmeade. Hence the bar, and possibly also its barkeeper have existed in JKR's mind since the very beginning. Thus it may very well be that Aberforth was planned to be introduced at an early stage, but it was postponed, just as the HBP storyline.
I know no one in the books that looks less like a prince, and that makes it fit for me. In my head I am just not able to image JKR including an ordinary prince into the story.
This somewhat abritary idea is my present guess for the HBP, with Wormtail as my reserve guess.
Hei og hopp!
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Ann - Aug 19, 2004 9:47 am (#1375 of 2923)
...a brave wizard who enchanted his hat, owned a sword, was once best friends with Salazar Slytherin, and came from the wild moor.
Thanks Czarina, I'd forgotten that. A connection with the Brontë sisters perhaps?
I do wonder whether the HBP might be Gryffindor's son or grandson, as someone has already suggested. If Gryffindor had had a half-blood descendant, it would explain what precipitated the break in their friendship. And it would make it more possible that the lion-guy from the snipped JKR gave us a few days ago was a Gryffindor (S.E. Jones says that glasses first occur in the 1290s, about 300 years after the foundation of Hogwarts.)
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 9:51 am (#1376 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
And it would make it more possible that the lion-guy from the snipped JKR gave us a few days ago was a Gryffindor (S.E. Jones says that glasses first occur in the 1290s, about 300 years after the foundation of Hogwarts.)
I doubt this is important. 1290 and 300 are numbers, and JKR have never been great on those. If the lion man really are GG, I would nor expect that kinds of details to be correct.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 12:33 pm (#1377 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Although I do believe that it is GG that JK Rowling was talking about in her clue and that he is the HBP lets remember that he may not be a real person (in the series). Harry might see a painting of him or see another memory in the pensive. We are also supposed to see more of Lily and James Potter. This might be a way that we get information about the past with out having a flash back.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 12:49 pm (#1378 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well I was just reading around in the forum and I came across a great piece of information I think is true so here you go
"I personally feel that the phoenix tail core found in the "brother" wands of Voldemort and Harry symbolize the renewing battle between Slytherin and Gryffindor." Some Guy Good thinking Some Guy Lady Black99
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 19, 2004 12:51 pm (#1379 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I am also in the camp of GG being the HBP, Harry being his heir, and McLagan being the new DADA. I know it has been said before that there are lots of clues pointing to this (the HBP issue) and I have to agree. Someone said that nothing is obvious in JKR's world and I couldn't agree more, but with that said, the threads on this site are discussing the books in great depth, and we may be trying to complicate things.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:32 pm (#1380 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I am one of the few in the camp that Harry is not GG's heir. I think this destroys the theme that JKR is setting up. It is not who your family is, it is your choices. We saw this in GoF with Dumbledore and Hagrid. Hagrid is extremely kind, yet his mother is a giantess. Likewise, Dubledore's brother is a goat-obsessed loon, yet Dumbledore is one of the greatest wizards known to men. Harry does not need Godric to be in his bloodline to be the defeator of evil.
One of the reasons people say Harry is a descendant of Godric is because his parents hid in Godric's Hollow. Some people think that since his parents lived there, they had to have inheirited from Godric. But why would they hide in the place they lived? I believe that someone told to hide there, that someone could be Dumbledore. If anyone is the descendant of Godric, I believe it is Dumbledore.
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Ronan - Aug 19, 2004 1:39 pm (#1381 of 2923)
Therealscabbers, just a quick note to tell you that not every character with glasses is good: Rita Skeeter. OK, so maybe she's not a DE, but she wasn't good either. Still, after reading all your opinions (or almost all of them ) I agree it seems like GG will be the HBP. It's a pity, though, I thought it'd be Mark Evans and we'd have a incredibly unexpected story twist. Anyway... isn't anyone wondering how is GG to return to life in case it's him??
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Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 1:40 pm (#1382 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
You might be on to some thing there. Either way we are still discussing GG being in the HBP. Maybe he himself (GG) is the HBP. Harry doesn't need to be GG heir to kill Voldemort I agree and as I think about it more and more I do think that harry would have found out by now if he was of royal blood but it would be clever to pin both heirs against each other to end years and years of rivalry.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 1:43 pm (#1383 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well Ronan we don't know if he will be returning to life although JK Rowlings description of his is as if he were standing in front of you there is still the possibility that we see him in a portrait or some other ingenious way JK Rowling has though up.
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The Artful Dodger - Aug 19, 2004 2:04 pm (#1384 of 2923)
I am one of the few in the camp that Harry is not GG's heir. I think this destroys the theme that JKR is setting up. It is not who your family is, it is your choices.
Star Crossed, generally you're right, but remember that it is Harry's fate to vanquish Lord Voldemort, not his choice, and the reason for this fate might well be a blood relation between Harry and Godric. And this could also explain why Voldemort tried to kill Harry, and not Neville.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 2:10 pm (#1385 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And this could also explain why Voldemort tried to kill Harry, and not Neville.
I believe Dumbledore when he says Voldemort chose Harry because he was a halfblood, just like Voldemort. I think Dumbledore was in a vunerable manner where he had to tell the truth to Harry. He owed it to him. I don't think he would lie about that.
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Kwikspell - Aug 19, 2004 2:28 pm (#1386 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
I agree with those who think that Harry is not Gryffindor's blood heir. I think there's a difference, however, between Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor through ancestry, and being the champion of all Godric Gryffindor espoused. As has been posted in the past, it appears that there's a larger conflict going on in the WW, started by the rift between Salazar and Godric that rears its ugly head every few decades. We got a hint of this on DD's wizard card that mentions his defeat of the evil wizard Grindewald (possibly the last time this conflict came to a head). It would make sense that Godric would not care if his champion came directly from his bloodline or not--based both on the choices theme of these books and Godric's apparent disinterest in the pure-blood of wizards.
I like the idea of Harry choosing to become Godric's "Heir" or champion because it fits in nicely with the choices-theme (and I've never been a fan of prophecies or destinies plotting your course through life) and also fits Harry's personality of taking on a burden to protect others. Of course, there are a million problems with this idea, not the least of which being Trelawney's prophecy that makes it sound like Harry has to either kill or be killed. (Sheesh! Is this a series about destiny or choices? Sometimes I have to wonder...)
And yes, I do believe that Godric Gryffindor is the Half Blood Prince. I think JKR took his story-line out of CoS where it would have fit in easily with the history of Salazar Slytherin and prejudice in the WW; but it would have also made the story a bit long and complex.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 19, 2004 2:55 pm (#1387 of 2923)
Actualy, I think the tile is like: harry potter and the son ( or heir) of gryffindor ...what if the HBP is GG son or heir... from the deescription it seems that way ( that its someone realated to him)... and ( this is where I got the idea from) a lion is a king so then GG was like a king (he even had a noble sword) and so his son or heir would be a prince. It would be a realy cool and ironic title if it was...
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Ann - Aug 19, 2004 2:57 pm (#1388 of 2923)
Kwikspell: Of course, there are a million problems with this idea, not the least of which being Trelawney's prophecy that makes it sound like Harry has to either kill or be killed. (Sheesh! Is this a series about destiny or choices? Sometimes I have to wonder...)
The one thing you learn about prophecies of your destiny from reading Greek myths about the Oracle of Delphi is that the worst thing you can do is pay too much attention to them, because they always turn out differently than you think they will. (Look what happened to Voldemort when he tried to avoid them; he's one of a long tradition in ways other than bloodline, going all the way back to Oedipus.) The wisest response to hearing a prophecy is just to go on making the best choices you can without regard to it, and try not to worry too much about fate. I hope Harry will figure this out in the course of HP6.
That said, I'm with Star-Crossed. By saying that Harry has to be the Heir of Gryffindor (who I think is the half-blood prince, or perhaps his father or grandfather), we are saying that we put just as much value on blood descent as the DEs do. People who brag about their ancestors rarely have achieved much on their own. (I'm not talking about all people of distinguished ancestry, you understand--they often achieve a lot, which is only to be expected given their head start. I'm just skeptical about the subset of them who put inordinate weight upon that fact.)
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Kwikspell - Aug 20, 2004 7:02 am (#1389 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
I can only hope that Harry will choose to ignore the prophecy, as you suggest, Ann. I've never put much stock in prophecies as a literary tool since you're deciding your characters' fates. (We know what's going to happen--why read the rest of the book?) This is probably way off topic, but maybe after hearing the prophecy and stewing on it for a book and a half, Harry will make the choice to do something completely different (like melding the two essences of himself and Voldemort, as has been suggested on other threads).
I agree--the Heir of Gryffindor (I'm not really a fan of that term) will probably not be related to Godric as he doesn't appear to have cared about bloodlines. This is in sharp contrast to the Heir of Slytherin who, apparently, has to be a direct descendent of Salazar. I think anyone in Gryffindor could become the Heir of Gryffindor. (I'm holding out hope for Ginny.)
Cezar, I really like your idea that the HBP could be the son of Gryffindor. If Godric married a Muggle, I could see that causing the big rift between himself and pure-blood crazy Salazar.
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Shanda - Aug 20, 2004 8:50 am (#1390 of 2923)
Harry can not choose to ignore the prophecy. He can and probably will try to make his own choices, but in the end he will have to follow it. That is the point of a prophecy every choice you make still comes out to the same conclusion. LV tried to change it but in doing so he enabled the prophecy to come true by giving only Harry the power to kill him. It fortells the future and cannot be changed.
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siliconsmiley - Aug 20, 2004 10:13 am (#1391 of 2923)
And yet it is difficult to understand what the prophecy means until after the events it foretells come to pass. That's the trick with prophecy.
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lobelia - Aug 20, 2004 10:28 am (#1392 of 2923)
I think the snippet is about Godric Gryffindor. Perhaps Harry gets his hands on that pensive again. Maybe the pensive is handed down through different generations.
I have posted this earlier and it is just speculation, but I think the ancient magic that protects Harry is that he has Gryffindor blood in him and I think that Gryffindor charmed his own blood and it has been passed down to protect the latest (most current) heir from the Slytherin heir. It has been suggested that Harry's power to vanquish comes from his heart. There would be blood in his heart. Ok...the last part is lame.
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Shanda - Aug 20, 2004 10:42 am (#1393 of 2923)
siliconsmiley you are right. We don't know what the prophecy means and all we can due is guess untill all the books are out. In the end it will make sense and Harry's actions will fit with the prophecy.
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siliconsmiley - Aug 20, 2004 11:59 am (#1394 of 2923)
But it sure is fun to try to guess. Certainly there are many clues. I'm still looking for the snake Harry set free from the zoo to come back and have a part.
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Steve Newton - Aug 20, 2004 12:08 pm (#1395 of 2923)
Librarian
Absolutely! I am waiting for the big showdown between Nagini and the boa.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 12:55 pm (#1396 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
So now that I'm thinking about who the HBP is more and more it wouldn't make sense to make Harry an heir of GG. This would be a known fact (at least to DD). Now after re-reading the 5th book I don't think that he would have kept this information from him. I believe that DD felt very bad about withholding information from Harry and took that opportunity to tell him everything he knows. Therefore making Harry neither the HBP nor the heir of GG. But I do still believe that the HBP is going to be either GG or the heir of GG. What do u guys think?
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Siriusly - Aug 20, 2004 2:15 pm (#1397 of 2923)
I think the Weasley's are the heir.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm (#1398 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
OK so here is why I think the Weasly's aren't the heirs:
1) Being the heir of GG is not something that a pure blood wizarding family just happens to come across one day. This is something that should be known. 2) If in fact Ron were one of the heirs of GG he would have known and would have mentioned it somewhere. Remember as much as I love Ron and it hurts me to say this he always wants some attention. Being the heir of GG would in fact get Ron some attention so he would have mentioned it before. 3) And if in fact they were the Heirs of GG don't you think they would have some sort of wealth. I mean I can see how over the years the money was spent but they should have at least have gotten something. 4) Oh and not to mention that Molly Weasly is tied to the Black family (including Malfoy's mom) and that Mr. Weasly has two other brothers so The Weasly's not the end of the family line. 5) And to top it all off the Weasly's are a pure blood family. None of them can be the "Half-Blood Prince.
Sorry I would have loved to believe this theory but it just doesn't calculate.
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 20, 2004 9:37 pm (#1399 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Lady Black 99-DD tell Harry everything he knows. Never happen! That knowledge would make Harry's hair lie flat.
I do agree with you however that Harry does not necessarily have to be related to GG to be the heir. GG just needs someone to pick up the sword.
Mikie
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Siriusly - Aug 20, 2004 10:02 pm (#1400 of 2923)
Ah Lady Black,
When does anyone mention anything in HP? Molly is tied to the Blacks through marriage. Perhaps we misunderstood. I did not mean Heir as in Heir of Anything, I meant heir as in member of the family. They do all have royal names. If Arthur has two older brothers, the eldest and their family would be the heir. The Weasley's would still be royal, and maybe broke, especially if their father had 3 older brothers and so forth and so on. I should make myself clearer. Sorry.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If anyone has been on JKR site lately they could read a passage about the HBP, She gives definite clues.
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Belladonna - Aug 18, 2004 11:05 am (#1352 of 2923)
Maybe he called him Tom to remind Voldemeort that he was once Human.
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Nyx Megumi - Aug 18, 2004 11:18 am (#1353 of 2923)
I am Nyx, Goddess of night, ruler of cats and manipulator of fire!!!
Maybe he called him Tom to remind Voldemeort that he was once Human.
That's a very good point. It actually makes more sense than what I said. Truthfully, I can see DD thinking along the lines of "You're not Voldemort, you're Tom, the boy that I taught in school. Just because you've changed your appearance doesn't mean that you're a different person."
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 11:44 am (#1354 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Nyx Megumi, welcome! We treat everyone but ourselves well. You may find when we make a mistake, we iron our hands. ;D
Belladonna, it might not be the HBP, it could be anyone. Also, if you ever need to post something else and it is within 30 minutes, you can edit your post and write what else you want to write. However, that is a good idea about reminding him he was human.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 18, 2004 11:48 am (#1355 of 2923)
He calls him tom because of this :voldemort was a name he created so that when he was the most powerful wizard in the world, people would be so frightined of him that they would never be able to say voldemort. DD refuses to regonginse Voldemort as the best and most frightining wizard alive and calls him tom, as he conseiders him to be a normal wizard... he calls him tom to show his superioty to Voldemort and to show that he is unafraid of him. And to show that his objective of becoming "voldedmort the best wizard" is not achived he is still only tom riddle in the end...Make sence ? I didnt elaborate as best i could... Im realy in a hurry...I was supossed to leave 5 min ago, but couldnt resist a last peek at the forum and to post this message... hehe... but in my defence, who can !?
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Land of the Shire - Aug 18, 2004 12:41 pm (#1356 of 2923)
I'm definitely in the "Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor" camp, stemming mainly from the fact that Harry pulled Gryffindor's sword out of the sorting hat. I recall an king who once pulled a sword out of a stone, thus proving his lineage.
Also, that crack on Jo's website about Mark Evans being the Half-Blood Prince and the Heir of Gryffindor on the Pillar of Storgé was rather telling. Why would she mention the oft-discussed yet so-far non-canon idea of the Heir of Gryffindor unless she were actually to introduce it in one of the next two books?
In addition, I think it rounds out the series nicely if the Harry vs. Voldemort conflict is really an extension of the centuries-old Gryffindor vs. Slytherin conflict. Why make such a big deal about the Heir of Slytherin in CoS if the Heir of Gryffindor was never to show up?
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Nyx Megumi - Aug 18, 2004 1:22 pm (#1357 of 2923)
I am Nyx, Goddess of night, ruler of cats and manipulator of fire!!!
Why would she mention the oft-discussed yet so-far non-canon idea of the Heir of Gryffindor unless she were actually to introduce it in one of the next two books? - Land of the Shire
Perhaps she mentioned it because she found the idea extremely funny, and she just had to make fun of it? I've found that she has done that on a few occasions on her site.
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The One - Aug 18, 2004 2:29 pm (#1358 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
Why make such a big deal about the Heir of Slytherin in CoS if the Heir of Gryffindor was never to show up?
Probably because the Heir idea is an idea about blood line, the heir being a direct descendent of Slytherin. Slytherins are the ones to believe that blood is important, thus they are the ones to want to use such a concept.
Is the concept of the Heir of Slytherin mentioned anywhere but in CoS? I am positive that no other heirs is mentioned anywhere, and I must admit I expect it to continue like this for the remaining two books.
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vball man - Aug 18, 2004 3:25 pm (#1359 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Also, calling him Tom is a bit of disrespect.
Tom chose to rename himself because it was his "filthy muggle father's name."
Each person chooses what they want to be called. If you want to be called "Dan" and everyone insists on calling you "Danny," that would bug you.
So DD calls him "Tom." This says, I don't care what you want to be called. It says, don't forget your muggle father. It says, I remember you when you were in school. It says, you're not so big and bad.
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Belladonna - Aug 18, 2004 3:33 pm (#1360 of 2923)
"Belladonna, it might not be the HBP, it could be anyone". I have not yet mentioned who I believe to be the HBP.
True, star crossed it could be anyone, however I believed she opened the door specifically to give us a HBP clue. If it wasn't for an ingenious fan figuring out the game, and posting it I would never have figured it out. Once you read it, I think it is obvious who it is.
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Star Crossed - Aug 18, 2004 4:16 pm (#1361 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think anything is obvious in JKR's world. Who would believe your best friend's pet rat was actually the man who betrayed your parents 12 years ago?
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 18, 2004 5:45 pm (#1362 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I am afraid I must join the GG is HBP crowd. It makes sense, it fits and it feels good. On to the next question. I think we have hashed it out as much as possible now all we have to do is sit back and see if we are right.
That is unless JKR throws out any more clues which hangs us all out to dry. Then we can have a mass oven door slamming on our ears.
Mikie
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KTO - Aug 18, 2004 6:19 pm (#1363 of 2923)
I believe that DD calls LV Tom for the same reason Frodo calls Gollum, Smeagal. Not a sign of disrespect or superiority but as an outstretched hand, you can always come back, you can once again be the boy that you were, you still have a choice, even if you are unable to see it, I am. KTO
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Lady Black99 - Aug 18, 2004 6:35 pm (#1364 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well I have to agree I have for some time now thought that Godric Gryffindor was the "Half-Blood Prince". It would make alot of sense that Slithering and Gryffindor who were once best friends (according to the sorting hat page 204 of Order of the Phoenix) were torn apart because Slytherin's increasing obsession with "Pure Blood's". And I can see how that story line would tie into Chamber of Secrets. I also must point out that J.K. Rowling's new spoiler on her web site describes a person that can in some way shape or form resemble a lion. Well those are my thoughts any ways.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 18, 2004 6:45 pm (#1365 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Oh I almost forgot I also think that a great twist to the plot would be to make Harry Gryffindor's heir and therefore pinning two heirs against each other but I think this is a little far fetched.
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True Love - Aug 18, 2004 7:11 pm (#1366 of 2923)
KTo - I agree "I believe that DD calls LV Tom for the same reason Frodo calls Gollum, Smeagal" This is like Luke calling Vader "father". I wonder if DD will continue to do so - or if he will have the chance.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 18, 2004 7:34 pm (#1367 of 2923)
I can't agree more. I do think GG is the HBP!
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Shanda - Aug 18, 2004 8:51 pm (#1368 of 2923)
Well I didn't want to agree that the HBP is going to be Godric Gryffindor because I wanted it to be a new charactor. JKR is just so good a creating new ones. But after reading all the opinions on why GG should be the HBP I have to agree.
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therealscabbers - Aug 19, 2004 3:42 am (#1369 of 2923)
Petra t
Hi All, Well I have been analysing the quote on JKs site and this is what I have come up with - I too think it refers to the HBP but we dont know it for definite, it does also seem to back up the GG is HBP theory in some way this is my analysis
“He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of gray in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy loping grace even though he walked with a limp”
He – it is a man! Old lion – Griffindor lion? Voldie is described as looking like a serpent so maybe the HBP is related to Griffindor, maybe he is the Heir of Griff?
Streaks of grey – he is old - or at least looks old?
Wire rimmed specs – Good Guy – all people in books who wear glasses are good, no baddies wear glasses (that I can remember) I believe there have been discussions elsewhere about glasses.
Limp – only other person with a limp is MEM pos an arora? but for some reason he hasn't been magically heeled of this impediment, why?
Also just to point out He is described physically and so is a new character, not anyone we have met. Though not necissarily someone we havn't heard about!
He is described in colour so not a ghost (all silvery)
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 19, 2004 4:25 am (#1370 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Good post the real scabbers--I agree with you and will go one step further. I believe he will be McLagan the new character mentioned in the interview and will be the new DADA instructor.
Mikie
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Sara Elizabeth - Aug 19, 2004 8:08 am (#1371 of 2923)
I agree Scabbers. I didn't believe the HBP was GG until I read that quote from behind the door on JKR's Website. Now, I am believer.
Sara
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therealscabbers - Aug 19, 2004 8:28 am (#1372 of 2923)
Petra t
I am still not sure the HBP is GG just his heir - i.e. Harry is not the Heir but the Heir is the HBP and will aid Harry, Dont think he will be the DADA teacher though!
I think McLaggan will be a minor charactor as she only mentioned the name when answering a question about how she comes up with names, said she'd just heard the name and decided to use it, so dont think he will be important (hmmm just been readin the book 5 right wrong predictions thread must make a mental note of these predictions for future ref!! so can kick myself when McLaggen is the main new charachter in HBP!! )
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Czarina II - Aug 19, 2004 9:29 am (#1373 of 2923)
To whomever wanted the HBP to be a new character and is thus reluctant to consider Godric Gryffindor a possibility:
Godric Gryffindor WOULD BE a new character! He hasn't been around before in the series. He has only been mentioned in passing in CoS. Even if only a portrait, ghost, or in flashback, he would be a new character with a personality. Even if he is just talked about, more would be revealed about him and he would be fleshed out more than simply a brave wizard who enchanted his hat, owned a sword, was once best friends with Salazar Slytherin, and came from the wild moor.
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 9:39 am (#1374 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
I am going to guess that the HBP is Aberforth.
Why do I think so? Firstly it goes without saying (so why do I say it) that we simply do not know, so this is guesswork, not evidence..
Firstly HBP and Aberforth is very similar in on way: I both believe them to be important in the future story, but I have no idea how, thus they are similar...
More to the point:
Aberforth is mentioned once in GoF for no good reason, then again in Moody's picture in OotP, and at last we are shown the barkeeper at the Hogs Head and allowed to guess who it is. It seems to be a sneaky way to introduce character that will be important.
The Hogs Head is mentioned already in PS as a somewhat less reputable bar in Hogsmeade. Hence the bar, and possibly also its barkeeper have existed in JKR's mind since the very beginning. Thus it may very well be that Aberforth was planned to be introduced at an early stage, but it was postponed, just as the HBP storyline.
I know no one in the books that looks less like a prince, and that makes it fit for me. In my head I am just not able to image JKR including an ordinary prince into the story.
This somewhat abritary idea is my present guess for the HBP, with Wormtail as my reserve guess.
Hei og hopp!
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Ann - Aug 19, 2004 9:47 am (#1375 of 2923)
...a brave wizard who enchanted his hat, owned a sword, was once best friends with Salazar Slytherin, and came from the wild moor.
Thanks Czarina, I'd forgotten that. A connection with the Brontë sisters perhaps?
I do wonder whether the HBP might be Gryffindor's son or grandson, as someone has already suggested. If Gryffindor had had a half-blood descendant, it would explain what precipitated the break in their friendship. And it would make it more possible that the lion-guy from the snipped JKR gave us a few days ago was a Gryffindor (S.E. Jones says that glasses first occur in the 1290s, about 300 years after the foundation of Hogwarts.)
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The One - Aug 19, 2004 9:51 am (#1376 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
And it would make it more possible that the lion-guy from the snipped JKR gave us a few days ago was a Gryffindor (S.E. Jones says that glasses first occur in the 1290s, about 300 years after the foundation of Hogwarts.)
I doubt this is important. 1290 and 300 are numbers, and JKR have never been great on those. If the lion man really are GG, I would nor expect that kinds of details to be correct.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 12:33 pm (#1377 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Although I do believe that it is GG that JK Rowling was talking about in her clue and that he is the HBP lets remember that he may not be a real person (in the series). Harry might see a painting of him or see another memory in the pensive. We are also supposed to see more of Lily and James Potter. This might be a way that we get information about the past with out having a flash back.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 12:49 pm (#1378 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well I was just reading around in the forum and I came across a great piece of information I think is true so here you go
"I personally feel that the phoenix tail core found in the "brother" wands of Voldemort and Harry symbolize the renewing battle between Slytherin and Gryffindor." Some Guy Good thinking Some Guy Lady Black99
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 19, 2004 12:51 pm (#1379 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I am also in the camp of GG being the HBP, Harry being his heir, and McLagan being the new DADA. I know it has been said before that there are lots of clues pointing to this (the HBP issue) and I have to agree. Someone said that nothing is obvious in JKR's world and I couldn't agree more, but with that said, the threads on this site are discussing the books in great depth, and we may be trying to complicate things.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 1:32 pm (#1380 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I am one of the few in the camp that Harry is not GG's heir. I think this destroys the theme that JKR is setting up. It is not who your family is, it is your choices. We saw this in GoF with Dumbledore and Hagrid. Hagrid is extremely kind, yet his mother is a giantess. Likewise, Dubledore's brother is a goat-obsessed loon, yet Dumbledore is one of the greatest wizards known to men. Harry does not need Godric to be in his bloodline to be the defeator of evil.
One of the reasons people say Harry is a descendant of Godric is because his parents hid in Godric's Hollow. Some people think that since his parents lived there, they had to have inheirited from Godric. But why would they hide in the place they lived? I believe that someone told to hide there, that someone could be Dumbledore. If anyone is the descendant of Godric, I believe it is Dumbledore.
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Ronan - Aug 19, 2004 1:39 pm (#1381 of 2923)
Therealscabbers, just a quick note to tell you that not every character with glasses is good: Rita Skeeter. OK, so maybe she's not a DE, but she wasn't good either. Still, after reading all your opinions (or almost all of them
) I agree it seems like GG will be the HBP. It's a pity, though, I thought it'd be Mark Evans and we'd have a incredibly unexpected story twist. Anyway... isn't anyone wondering how is GG to return to life in case it's him?? - - - - - - - - - -
Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 1:40 pm (#1382 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
You might be on to some thing there. Either way we are still discussing GG being in the HBP. Maybe he himself (GG) is the HBP. Harry doesn't need to be GG heir to kill Voldemort I agree and as I think about it more and more I do think that harry would have found out by now if he was of royal blood but it would be clever to pin both heirs against each other to end years and years of rivalry.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 19, 2004 1:43 pm (#1383 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well Ronan we don't know if he will be returning to life although JK Rowlings description of his is as if he were standing in front of you there is still the possibility that we see him in a portrait or some other ingenious way JK Rowling has though up.
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The Artful Dodger - Aug 19, 2004 2:04 pm (#1384 of 2923)
I am one of the few in the camp that Harry is not GG's heir. I think this destroys the theme that JKR is setting up. It is not who your family is, it is your choices.
Star Crossed, generally you're right, but remember that it is Harry's fate to vanquish Lord Voldemort, not his choice, and the reason for this fate might well be a blood relation between Harry and Godric. And this could also explain why Voldemort tried to kill Harry, and not Neville.
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Star Crossed - Aug 19, 2004 2:10 pm (#1385 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And this could also explain why Voldemort tried to kill Harry, and not Neville.
I believe Dumbledore when he says Voldemort chose Harry because he was a halfblood, just like Voldemort. I think Dumbledore was in a vunerable manner where he had to tell the truth to Harry. He owed it to him. I don't think he would lie about that.
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Kwikspell - Aug 19, 2004 2:28 pm (#1386 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
I agree with those who think that Harry is not Gryffindor's blood heir. I think there's a difference, however, between Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor through ancestry, and being the champion of all Godric Gryffindor espoused. As has been posted in the past, it appears that there's a larger conflict going on in the WW, started by the rift between Salazar and Godric that rears its ugly head every few decades. We got a hint of this on DD's wizard card that mentions his defeat of the evil wizard Grindewald (possibly the last time this conflict came to a head). It would make sense that Godric would not care if his champion came directly from his bloodline or not--based both on the choices theme of these books and Godric's apparent disinterest in the pure-blood of wizards.
I like the idea of Harry choosing to become Godric's "Heir" or champion because it fits in nicely with the choices-theme (and I've never been a fan of prophecies or destinies plotting your course through life) and also fits Harry's personality of taking on a burden to protect others. Of course, there are a million problems with this idea, not the least of which being Trelawney's prophecy that makes it sound like Harry has to either kill or be killed. (Sheesh! Is this a series about destiny or choices? Sometimes I have to wonder...)
And yes, I do believe that Godric Gryffindor is the Half Blood Prince. I think JKR took his story-line out of CoS where it would have fit in easily with the history of Salazar Slytherin and prejudice in the WW; but it would have also made the story a bit long and complex.
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Cezar Salem - Aug 19, 2004 2:55 pm (#1387 of 2923)
Actualy, I think the tile is like: harry potter and the son ( or heir) of gryffindor ...what if the HBP is GG son or heir... from the deescription it seems that way ( that its someone realated to him)... and ( this is where I got the idea from) a lion is a king so then GG was like a king (he even had a noble sword) and so his son or heir would be a prince. It would be a realy cool and ironic title if it was...
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Ann - Aug 19, 2004 2:57 pm (#1388 of 2923)
Kwikspell: Of course, there are a million problems with this idea, not the least of which being Trelawney's prophecy that makes it sound like Harry has to either kill or be killed. (Sheesh! Is this a series about destiny or choices? Sometimes I have to wonder...)
The one thing you learn about prophecies of your destiny from reading Greek myths about the Oracle of Delphi is that the worst thing you can do is pay too much attention to them, because they always turn out differently than you think they will. (Look what happened to Voldemort when he tried to avoid them; he's one of a long tradition in ways other than bloodline, going all the way back to Oedipus.) The wisest response to hearing a prophecy is just to go on making the best choices you can without regard to it, and try not to worry too much about fate. I hope Harry will figure this out in the course of HP6.
That said, I'm with Star-Crossed. By saying that Harry has to be the Heir of Gryffindor (who I think is the half-blood prince, or perhaps his father or grandfather
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Kwikspell - Aug 20, 2004 7:02 am (#1389 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
I can only hope that Harry will choose to ignore the prophecy, as you suggest, Ann. I've never put much stock in prophecies as a literary tool since you're deciding your characters' fates. (We know what's going to happen--why read the rest of the book?) This is probably way off topic, but maybe after hearing the prophecy and stewing on it for a book and a half, Harry will make the choice to do something completely different (like melding the two essences of himself and Voldemort, as has been suggested on other threads).
I agree--the Heir of Gryffindor (I'm not really a fan of that term) will probably not be related to Godric as he doesn't appear to have cared about bloodlines. This is in sharp contrast to the Heir of Slytherin who, apparently, has to be a direct descendent of Salazar. I think anyone in Gryffindor could become the Heir of Gryffindor. (I'm holding out hope for Ginny.)
Cezar, I really like your idea that the HBP could be the son of Gryffindor. If Godric married a Muggle, I could see that causing the big rift between himself and pure-blood crazy Salazar.
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Shanda - Aug 20, 2004 8:50 am (#1390 of 2923)
Harry can not choose to ignore the prophecy. He can and probably will try to make his own choices, but in the end he will have to follow it. That is the point of a prophecy every choice you make still comes out to the same conclusion. LV tried to change it but in doing so he enabled the prophecy to come true by giving only Harry the power to kill him. It fortells the future and cannot be changed.
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siliconsmiley - Aug 20, 2004 10:13 am (#1391 of 2923)
And yet it is difficult to understand what the prophecy means until after the events it foretells come to pass. That's the trick with prophecy.
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lobelia - Aug 20, 2004 10:28 am (#1392 of 2923)
I think the snippet is about Godric Gryffindor. Perhaps Harry gets his hands on that pensive again. Maybe the pensive is handed down through different generations.
I have posted this earlier and it is just speculation, but I think the ancient magic that protects Harry is that he has Gryffindor blood in him and I think that Gryffindor charmed his own blood and it has been passed down to protect the latest (most current) heir from the Slytherin heir. It has been suggested that Harry's power to vanquish comes from his heart. There would be blood in his heart. Ok...the last part is lame.
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Shanda - Aug 20, 2004 10:42 am (#1393 of 2923)
siliconsmiley you are right. We don't know what the prophecy means and all we can due is guess untill all the books are out. In the end it will make sense and Harry's actions will fit with the prophecy.
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siliconsmiley - Aug 20, 2004 11:59 am (#1394 of 2923)
But it sure is fun to try to guess. Certainly there are many clues. I'm still looking for the snake Harry set free from the zoo to come back and have a part.
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Steve Newton - Aug 20, 2004 12:08 pm (#1395 of 2923)
Librarian
Absolutely! I am waiting for the big showdown between Nagini and the boa.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 12:55 pm (#1396 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
So now that I'm thinking about who the HBP is more and more it wouldn't make sense to make Harry an heir of GG. This would be a known fact (at least to DD). Now after re-reading the 5th book I don't think that he would have kept this information from him. I believe that DD felt very bad about withholding information from Harry and took that opportunity to tell him everything he knows. Therefore making Harry neither the HBP nor the heir of GG. But I do still believe that the HBP is going to be either GG or the heir of GG. What do u guys think?
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Siriusly - Aug 20, 2004 2:15 pm (#1397 of 2923)
I think the Weasley's are the heir.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 3:14 pm (#1398 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
OK so here is why I think the Weasly's aren't the heirs:
1) Being the heir of GG is not something that a pure blood wizarding family just happens to come across one day. This is something that should be known. 2) If in fact Ron were one of the heirs of GG he would have known and would have mentioned it somewhere. Remember as much as I love Ron and it hurts me to say this he always wants some attention. Being the heir of GG would in fact get Ron some attention so he would have mentioned it before. 3) And if in fact they were the Heirs of GG don't you think they would have some sort of wealth. I mean I can see how over the years the money was spent but they should have at least have gotten something. 4) Oh and not to mention that Molly Weasly is tied to the Black family (including Malfoy's mom) and that Mr. Weasly has two other brothers so The Weasly's not the end of the family line. 5) And to top it all off the Weasly's are a pure blood family. None of them can be the "Half-Blood Prince.
Sorry I would have loved to believe this theory but it just doesn't calculate.
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 20, 2004 9:37 pm (#1399 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Lady Black 99-DD tell Harry everything he knows. Never happen! That knowledge would make Harry's hair lie flat.
I do agree with you however that Harry does not necessarily have to be related to GG to be the heir. GG just needs someone to pick up the sword.
Mikie
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Siriusly - Aug 20, 2004 10:02 pm (#1400 of 2923)
Ah Lady Black,
When does anyone mention anything in HP? Molly is tied to the Blacks through marriage. Perhaps we misunderstood. I did not mean Heir as in Heir of Anything, I meant heir as in member of the family. They do all have royal names. If Arthur has two older brothers, the eldest and their family would be the heir. The Weasley's would still be royal, and maybe broke, especially if their father had 3 older brothers and so forth and so on. I should make myself clearer. Sorry.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 10:45 pm (#1401 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Good point Mickey Cee3948 but certainly you don't think that JKR is going to repeat her self by having DD withhold information from Harry. As he said that back fired. "It was an oldmans mistake" I do believe that there are certain things that DD knows and Harry doesn't but it would be information about someone else. DD would have told Harry if her were the heir GG. And if Harry isn't directly the heir but just takes that role that would be Harry's choice and that DD would have no knowledge of. I must also thank Siriusly for clearing that up for me. I was a little confused there for a moment but its clear now what you were trying to tell me but I still see some glitches with the Weasly's being the heirs. Now I am not dismissing it completely (everything is possible in JKR world) I still find it hard to believe that this information would not have come up before. Especialy in CoS. If the Weasly's were truly the heirs of GG it should have been Ron to go in to the chamber and He would have been the one to pull out the sword from the sorting hat. Don't you think? Please let me know what you think.
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remiden - Aug 20, 2004 10:52 pm (#1402 of 2923)
Here is an interesting concept, the Half Blood prince, is indeed the heir to Gryffindor and is in fact the old character mentioned in the excerpt behind the door. Something happens to this character during the book, which leaves him dying. He then gives Harry the chioce telling him the only the heir of Gryffindor can defeat the heir of Slytherin, but Harry must choose to pick up the mantle, it cannot be chosen for him. But Rowling makes the choice very hard for Harry, as the character is being kept alive by the power that comes with being the heir to Gryffindor, and should Harry take it, then the character will die (of course the character will be telling Harry to take it for the greater good), but should Harry not take it, then no one will be able to defeat Voldemort as the character is not the one the prophecy spoke of.
That is just coming off the top of my head at 2 am, so when I read it tomorrow, I am sure it will sound kinda crazy.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 10:57 pm (#1403 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Ummmm Remiden Actually it's not a bad theory I was thinking something along those lines. I never thought that the heir would give that choice to Harry but I do think that harry will have to make a great decision in book 6 that will effect the outcome of book 7. So you never know maybe your on to something.
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Some Guy - Aug 21, 2004 1:08 am (#1404 of 2923)
Hagrid is HALF giant. Hagrid's mother seems to be a giant of SOME importance. Possibly Queen of the giants? The HBP could be Hagrid, but I really hope it's Godric =). Merlin had a child right, just kidding.
I suppose it could be Hagrid's dad too. I don't see how Hagrid is possible with out some SERIOUS magic :O. Unfortunately I think Hagrid killed his dad when he lost his temper as a youngster.
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Boris the Bewildered - Aug 21, 2004 6:31 am (#1405 of 2923)
About all the "heir" speculations:
I don't think Harry (or Voldemart) are anyone's heirs. It seems to be the theme of the book that one's ancestors are not relevant to one's achievements, identity. It's interesting to note that 2 of the most capable characters are half bloods (Harry, Voldemort), that Hermione is one of the best witches in her generation, being the daughter of muggle dentists. In this vein, I do not expect any of the main characters to discover a long lost connection with some old family - it would defeat the purpose.
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Kwikspell - Aug 21, 2004 7:07 am (#1406 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
Remiden, not a bad idea at all. It certainly incorporates the "choices" theme, and that "choosing what is right is not always choosing what is easy." Maybe you ought to post more in the wee hours of the morning! ;-)
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Ann - Aug 21, 2004 7:51 am (#1407 of 2923)
Zahn, Voldemort is the heir of Slytherin, but this doesn't mean that Harry is the Heir of anyone. People who talk a lot about bloodlines, in both the wizarding (Malfoys) and muggle (Aunt Marge) worlds, do not usually amount to much on their own. Nor need the Half-Blood Prince be the heir of anyone, although I think a descendent of Gryffindor is a still a possibility.
But I agree with you that one of the main lessons of the series is that birth is less important than choices. The reason that half-bloods do so well in these books is because they (or their parents, really) put so little value on the purity/nobility of blood. Voldemort is an exception, but that is because he has denied his father--although, if you think about it, his muggle father's name is still incorporated, secretly, in "Voldemort," just as his blood and bones are also part of Voldemort himself.
Remiden and Lady Black, I agree that Harry is going to be making some huge and consequential decision in HP6, but I'm not sure it will have to do with the HBP, since JKR said that storyline was originally part of CoS, where I do not see how such a decision could fit at all.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 21, 2004 11:38 am (#1408 of 2923)
Harry is brave but with some Slytherin qualities put into Gryffindor because of his choice. Ron is very loyal( Huffelpuff like), put into Gryffindor because he is "another Wieasly" Hermione is very very smart(a Ravenclaw trait), but in Gryffindor.
maby the trio represent the unity of GG,HH,and RR under one house and one goal and are all Heirs?
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Madame Kulich - Aug 21, 2004 12:25 pm (#1409 of 2923)
Remiden - wow! Great theory! Pretty darn impressive for 2 a.m. I like it!
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Star Crossed - Aug 21, 2004 12:36 pm (#1410 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lupin's daughter, we don't know if Ron was put in Gryffindor because he's 'another Weasley'. The movie isn't canon, after all. It's actually very unlikely Ron is a Gryffindor because his family. Look at the Patil twins. It all depends on how you are, not who your family is.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 21, 2004 2:42 pm (#1411 of 2923)
I am not questioning their placement just pointing out their other traits. Ron is very brave so Gryffindor is right for him. but when you look at the trio as a group you can better see their complimenting traits G/S for Harry, G/H for Ron and G/R for Hermione. OoF talked a lot about unifing the houses. The trio repersent that.
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Some Guy - Aug 21, 2004 4:56 pm (#1412 of 2923)
Was I way off thinking that it might be Hagrid lol?
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Steve Newton - Aug 21, 2004 5:46 pm (#1413 of 2923)
Librarian
lupin's daughter,
It occurs to me that if you add Luna to the mix you have to males and two females and may be recreating the original founders of Hogwarts.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 21, 2004 6:30 pm (#1414 of 2923)
your right...i missed that. so the founders are reunited??
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Land of the Shire - Aug 21, 2004 10:08 pm (#1415 of 2923)
I was firmly in the "Harry is the heir of Gryffindor" camp, but I must say I like the idea that Harry, though not necessarily related to GG by blood, chooses to take up his mantle. It's a very nice way to round out the conflict, I think.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 21, 2004 10:20 pm (#1416 of 2923)
Some guy put an Lol after suggesting Hagrid, but I do not see why this seems so absurd. A: one of the major discoveries in "The Chamber of Secrets" was the truth about Hagrid's expulsion. JKR did say that the second book was the key to the sixth. The only half-blood of any consequence other than Tom and Harry in the second book was Hagrid. B: We now know that Hagrid is a significant factor in the outcome of the second war. If the Giants side with Voldemort again, then the war will be much worse than before. Hagrid's attempts to civilize his half-brother are going to become extremely valuable in the next book. C: So far as we know, Hagrid's mother may literally have been "Queen" of the giants. Hagrid may very well be a "half blood prince". (I apologize for the hasty writing, I was busy in the neville longbottom forum, Hagrid was my prediction for the half-blood prince so I was surprised that he was not being taken seriously as a possibility.)
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Star Crossed - Aug 22, 2004 4:50 am (#1417 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The one problem with your theory is that Hagrid's mother couldn't have been queen. We saw the Gurgs, and the Gurg was always the biggest and the strongest, and not trying to be sexist, that sounds like it would go to the man. It's possible for female Gurgs, but it just doesn't fit to me. Also, if his mother was Gurg, I doubt that would make him prince. It seems that whoever kills you is your sucessor. So what would the point be for being a prince?
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Steve Newton - Aug 22, 2004 6:29 am (#1418 of 2923)
Librarian
Crossed,
We only know the Gurg system exists now. Years ago, before the giants were reduced and had to live close together to survive, they may have had a queen.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 22, 2004 10:03 am (#1419 of 2923)
We currently know very little about Hagrid and Grawp's mother. In order for her to possibly marry Hagrid's father she would have had to be very young (it is my belief that giants are able to bear children at a very young age and that young giants have to be closer in size and shape to the half-giants that we have met so far, otherwise it would be simply impossible for people like Hagrid and Maxime to be born) This would mean that Hagrid and his father knew almost nothing about her. the only reference to her in the books is in Rita Skeeter's article in "the Goblet of Fire" in which her name is disclosed. We have know idea what she became after she left Hagrid's father, only that she was once more accepted into giant culture and even had one more child (however weak and docile he may have been). One can assume that Rowling will reveal much more about Hagrid's personal history in the next two books. Even if the giants hold no value over blood, Hagrid may still be the half-blood prince through the act of unifying the giants as a leader. Hagrid's success with Grawp will be a key factor in the war against Voldemort I can assume that much. I also observe that Hagrid has fully cast off his position in the first book as comic relief and has become a key character. Whether he is the half-blood prince or not keep an eye on him along with Luna and Neville all of whom I think hold the keys to the end of the series.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 22, 2004 10:25 am (#1420 of 2923)
I agree with Classic. I do think Hagrid is a possibility for the HBP. It would be nice to have him as the HBP anyway - he is one of my favorite characters. I am, however, leaning toward GG being the HBP. I think there was more to the Giants structure than Gurgs when before they were driven away/killed off. So, I think there could have been a King/Queen of Giants.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 10:29 am (#1421 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I like the idea of Hagrid too. And Lupin, it would be nice for him, seeing as people thinks he's poor. Although, the "Prince" doesn't have to be royalty, it could be a title of politician, etc.
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Reading muggle - Aug 22, 2004 11:27 am (#1422 of 2923)
I hope I'm not getting off topic, but this is the closest post subject (HP6) for this question. Does anyone know who will be teaching apparition to these sixth-year students in book six? Perhaps it will be covered under a typical class, such as transfiguration. JKR continually describes it as a complicated skill, requiring licensure, so I figure it will be a separate class for the sixth-years.
Also, I believe Ron will be "of age" for an apparition license before the end of the sixth year, so I wonder if he will be doing some apparating at the end-of-the-book action scenes? I also wonder if Harry will be tempted to apparate without a license if knowing how to do so? Of course, they would have to be outside hogwart grounds to do so, but that seems to be a possibility- as in the last three books.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 11:31 am (#1423 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Apparating is not taught at Hogwarts, but at the Ministry of Magic Headquarters.
I think Harry will be warned, either by Lupin or Dumbledore, not to be tempted to try and Apparate when not of age. Maybe Molly will even restrict Ron, because of the dangers going on around them.
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Adami - Aug 22, 2004 11:41 am (#1424 of 2923)
I don't think that the HBP is Hagrid. It's to obvious. I think it's a new character but we'll never know that untill the book is finished. I hope that's soon.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 11:47 am (#1425 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hmmm... maybe the end of HbP will go like this:
Dumbledore, Harry and Mr Weasley sat in the round office of the Headmaster's. The sun shone through the window and glinted off the sheen of the mahogany desk.
"Harry, the Half-blood Prince is...."
JKR: Shoot! Ran out of printer ink!
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 12:13 pm (#1426 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
:-)
Then she really would have to move to Bolivia...
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Martin Johnston - Aug 22, 2004 12:27 pm (#1427 of 2923)
Hi all.....my first post, and I have been itching to ask the question, why all of a sudden a prince ? This is the first time I have seen such a title used in the HP series. (I could be wrong though) No queens or kings, or princesses for that matter, and now out of the blue comes a prince.
We have red in the last book that the wizarding or muggle world is not big enough for Harry or Voldermort, however, it is not stated that one HAS to kill the other. in other words, it could be that Draco Malfoy be the one to kill Harry, just to get in the good books with Voldermort.
And the most obvious question......why ? Why now a half blood prince, whoever he is going to be. What is his purpose ? I wonder if it would not be fitting for Harry (a child) to commit murder. So we now have a new (hero) who will do it for him. ?!
See if anyone has some info on this for me,
Kind regards,
Martin
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Madame Librarian - Aug 22, 2004 2:24 pm (#1428 of 2923)
Regarding apparating--I think one takes the test at the MoM, not necessarily the course. I often imagined as a form of comic relief an establishment in Hogsmeade, say, called
Maestro Houdini's School of Apparition--Guaranteed 6-week Course--Ministry approved--84% Pass Rate on first time test-takers--Reasonable Rates
Potions available to combat nervous stomachs.
Conveniently located near the school and all the shops in town.
Stop in for a brochure today!
(Group classes can be arranged.)
MHSA--look for the sky blue door at 1224 Thin Air Lane.
Ciao. Barb
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Betelgeuse Black - Aug 22, 2004 2:50 pm (#1429 of 2923)
I had a thought and I'm not sure if I got it from another person's post. I searched but I couldn't find it specifically mentioned but one post was close.
Could the half-blood prince be Ron?
I have two reasons to consider this: 1. The song, "Weasley is our King". This is just the kind of stuff JKR loves to tease us with.
2. The Weasley family's obsession with Muggles (well, Arthur anyway). The Weasley family is always being called blood-traitor, etc...
I don't really think Ron will be the HBP but I thought it would be fun to mull it over for a while.
My personal opinion is that Godric G. is the HBP. My main reason is the background story on Salazar Slytherin and why he built the CoS. I think the part of the story about the HBP that was taken out of the CoS bood that referred to GG and his battle with Salazar Slytherin. We don't find out about the Gryffindor / Slytherin battle until a later book (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) where Slytherin is forced to leave. Slytherin was trying to drive out the non pure-blood students and Gryffindor opposed him along with Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff. I just feel like this fits well with the information that this story line was removed from CoS. Maybe this book will give Harry a clue of how he can overcome LV, just as GG overcame S. Slytherin.
I've put an inpurturbable charm on this post so the dung-bombs that you throw will zoom away. Don't let that stop you from trying though. I hope I didn't ramble too much.
B. Black
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Crisz - Aug 22, 2004 2:58 pm (#1430 of 2923)
Wouldn't that be nice for Ron if he were the HBP? Then he could get the attention he always craved...
But I agree with B. Black, I don't think it's him.
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Reading muggle - Aug 22, 2004 7:03 pm (#1431 of 2923)
Hi Martin, yeah, the prince thing is sort of a mystery that everyone is really in the dark about and all we can do is guess. (which we do a lot of!) No kings or queens, but I will pipe in that Merlin sure does make appearances, such as "merlin's beard" or "order of Merlin". He served King Arther, didn't he?
And to follow up on the Apparition responses: I'm pretty sure that students of Hogwarts school of witchcraft and wizardry will be learning apparition at the school, not the MoM.
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Star Crossed - Aug 22, 2004 7:26 pm (#1432 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Reading muggle, I doubt they could get their license at the school. Don't forget, you cannot apparate or disapparate on Hogwarts grounds.
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Reading muggle - Aug 22, 2004 9:26 pm (#1433 of 2923)
Star Crossed: To get your driver's license you have to learn about how it's done, and do some practicing of some sort. That's all done in school in a driver's ed class. Apparition mastery must be the same as transfiguration or any magical subject- needing practice and education. We have been told that if it isn't done correctly bad things happen (i think the word was "splinched"). Students probably start by apparating only a foot or two, then increasing distance. I think by now we all know about apparition and Hogwarts (as Hermione has so often told us). That doesn't mean students cannot learn this by Hogwart teachers. Maybe they'll just walk to Hogsmead for class.
Then, once of age, the witch or wizard goes to MoM, takes the test and, passing, is licensed.
But the questions I had were..... will this magic be taught in a few lessons or in an entire class, and by whom? Minerva? Severus? Filius?
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 22, 2004 9:36 pm (#1434 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Betelgeuse Black - we discussed the possibility of Ron being the HbP 5 or 6 hundred posts ago. If I remember right it was discounted because of the Weasley's pure blood.
I do agree with your belief that the prince will be GG but if I not mistaken a couple of point should be made. I don't think SS was kicked out the book just says he left. And he wasn't trying to drive out the non pure bloods. He was just mad that the others did not want to be as restrictive as he was.
WOW that last dung-bomb almost came back at me. I have better leave now.
Mikie
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Madame Kulich - Aug 22, 2004 10:59 pm (#1435 of 2923)
He did create the chamber to "drive out the non pure bloods"/kill them off.
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Eponine - Aug 23, 2004 7:18 am (#1436 of 2923)
The Leaky Cauldron just posted that the title is indeed Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. The hyphen is included.
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Ann - Aug 23, 2004 8:32 am (#1437 of 2923)
Eponine - The hyphen is included.
She's listening to us! She's listening to us!
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 23, 2004 8:41 am (#1438 of 2923)
There goes the idea of Harry Potter and the Horribly Splinched Vampire (a hilarious suggestion made by someone earlier... I forget who it was).
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remiden - Aug 23, 2004 1:13 pm (#1439 of 2923)
It would not be Hagrid, because in the wizarding world, Hagrid is considered a half breed, not half blood. Rowling has bees very detailed in her writing, she would not be any less detailed just to try to trick people with a title.
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KWeldon - Aug 23, 2004 3:49 pm (#1440 of 2923)
Madame Librarian and I (among others) discussed the hyphen ad nauseum here, to some ridicule, and I feel vindicated that she chose to have it clarified to avoid the confusion it obviously could (and did) bring. Others must have discussed it elsewhere, too.
My faith in her (or Scholastic's) proper grammar usage is restored!
Harry Potter and the Horribly Splinched Vampire has a great ring, though, doesn't it!!
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True Love - Aug 23, 2004 4:31 pm (#1441 of 2923)
K Weldon - speaking of vampires, do you think the Half-Blood Prince might be a vampire? We haven't seen one yet but vampires are studied and mentioned in the books so at least Hermione would be able to figure out the person's secret if he wants to hide what he is. Could be a prince - like in Prince of Darkness.
I wonder if JKR will have a vampire on board in the next two books since she has already introduced other scary creatures as just plain folk.
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 4:42 pm (#1442 of 2923)
I thought I would re-post this here. Riddikulus pointed this out to me on another thread.
I watched disc two and this is amazing. I think the regal looking wizard whose portrait is above Dumbledore's is a very likey candidate for the Half Blood Prince. Good catch Riddikulus. I would have never found that. I have browsed through the office before but didn't even know you could Wingardium Leviosa to the portraits. How neat that is.
I think the portrait is indicating an actual prince because he has a crown around his steeple hat. I do not know if he is a prince from the wizarding world or from the muggle world. He is wearing a red robe and a yellow shirt. I think this is the same wizard as the wizard statue in the movie. This statue shows a wizard with a scale size Hogwarts in one hand and architecture tools and blue prints in the other hand. At his feet are the four animals that symbolize the houses, the lion, the snake, the eagle and the badger.
Earlier in the tour of the portraits they show Salazar Slytherin! There is a good chance that Godric Gryffindor's portrait is up on the wall as well. If the portrait is Godric Gryffindor then he may be the Half Blood Prince.
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KWeldon - Aug 23, 2004 4:50 pm (#1443 of 2923)
True Love,
I certainly hope she does, because I think it would add a great dynamic to the stories. I can't imagine where it would fit in, though. The original "no hyphen means it's a blood prince" theory pointed to a vampire, of course, since legends seem to support at least one example of a vampire having royal blood, and what else could a blood prince be?
I guess it's formally possible that the HBP is a vampire, since we have no evidence that points to anything else either!
As an aside, I'm still holding out for seeing a lethifold in the series, although since they're supposed to be tropical, this doesn't seem likely...
KWeldon
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Star Crossed - Aug 23, 2004 4:56 pm (#1444 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Sirius was in the tropics once. And Harry has visions of DD there. Oh, this doesn't sound good.
Maybe Voldie will vacation there soon!
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Madame Librarian - Aug 23, 2004 5:15 pm (#1445 of 2923)
So, the hyphen exists! Aaah, it would be an interesting question for the next chat: Tell us, Jo, did you read the Forum and realize how different the meaning was without the hyphen? Did your web designer person inadvertently leave it out? Tell all! Tell us the hyphen story!
On second thought that would be the waste of a good question opportunity. We'll just have to be happy in the perhaps deluded notion that it was our pedantic chatter about hyphens, grammar and such that gave her the nudge.
Ciao. Barb
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KWeldon - Aug 23, 2004 5:21 pm (#1446 of 2923)
The hyphen exists, AS IT SHOULD. If she did read our discussion or a similar one of others, she must have thought, "Good grief, people, you are the most nitpicky bunch I've ever seen!"
Perhaps Lynne called her up and gave her a tongue-lashing.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 23, 2004 5:45 pm (#1447 of 2923)
HOw do you see the pic of the potential HBP?
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 6:50 pm (#1448 of 2923)
If you have the DVD of Harry Potter and Chamber of Secrets, play the the second disc. There is an option to go "behind Hogwarts". From that list choose Dumbledore's Office. You go in a circle around the office and when you are facing the door to go out you have an option to go up (A green arrow). The narrorator says Wingardium Leviosa and up you go to look at the the founders portraits. you have to go to the right and you click on the second option.
There is a portrait of a "regal looking wizard" above Dumbledore's portrait. He even looks like he could be an ancestor of either Dumbledore or Harry Potter.
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Siriusly - Aug 23, 2004 7:40 pm (#1449 of 2923)
I put this on the New Clue thread but thought it would work here.
Who has yellow eyes, described like a lion and is a half-blood?
Crookshanks!
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 7:46 pm (#1450 of 2923)
Hermione doesn't get Crookshanks until Prisoner of Azkaban.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Good point Mickey Cee3948 but certainly you don't think that JKR is going to repeat her self by having DD withhold information from Harry. As he said that back fired. "It was an oldmans mistake" I do believe that there are certain things that DD knows and Harry doesn't but it would be information about someone else. DD would have told Harry if her were the heir GG. And if Harry isn't directly the heir but just takes that role that would be Harry's choice and that DD would have no knowledge of. I must also thank Siriusly for clearing that up for me. I was a little confused there for a moment but its clear now what you were trying to tell me but I still see some glitches with the Weasly's being the heirs. Now I am not dismissing it completely (everything is possible in JKR world) I still find it hard to believe that this information would not have come up before. Especialy in CoS. If the Weasly's were truly the heirs of GG it should have been Ron to go in to the chamber and He would have been the one to pull out the sword from the sorting hat. Don't you think? Please let me know what you think.
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remiden - Aug 20, 2004 10:52 pm (#1402 of 2923)
Here is an interesting concept, the Half Blood prince, is indeed the heir to Gryffindor and is in fact the old character mentioned in the excerpt behind the door. Something happens to this character during the book, which leaves him dying. He then gives Harry the chioce telling him the only the heir of Gryffindor can defeat the heir of Slytherin, but Harry must choose to pick up the mantle, it cannot be chosen for him. But Rowling makes the choice very hard for Harry, as the character is being kept alive by the power that comes with being the heir to Gryffindor, and should Harry take it, then the character will die (of course the character will be telling Harry to take it for the greater good), but should Harry not take it, then no one will be able to defeat Voldemort as the character is not the one the prophecy spoke of.
That is just coming off the top of my head at 2 am, so when I read it tomorrow, I am sure it will sound kinda crazy.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 20, 2004 10:57 pm (#1403 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Ummmm Remiden Actually it's not a bad theory I was thinking something along those lines. I never thought that the heir would give that choice to Harry but I do think that harry will have to make a great decision in book 6 that will effect the outcome of book 7. So you never know maybe your on to something.
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Some Guy - Aug 21, 2004 1:08 am (#1404 of 2923)
Hagrid is HALF giant. Hagrid's mother seems to be a giant of SOME importance. Possibly Queen of the giants? The HBP could be Hagrid, but I really hope it's Godric =). Merlin had a child right, just kidding.
I suppose it could be Hagrid's dad too. I don't see how Hagrid is possible with out some SERIOUS magic :O. Unfortunately I think Hagrid killed his dad when he lost his temper as a youngster.
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Boris the Bewildered - Aug 21, 2004 6:31 am (#1405 of 2923)
About all the "heir" speculations:
I don't think Harry (or Voldemart) are anyone's heirs. It seems to be the theme of the book that one's ancestors are not relevant to one's achievements, identity. It's interesting to note that 2 of the most capable characters are half bloods (Harry, Voldemort), that Hermione is one of the best witches in her generation, being the daughter of muggle dentists. In this vein, I do not expect any of the main characters to discover a long lost connection with some old family - it would defeat the purpose.
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Kwikspell - Aug 21, 2004 7:07 am (#1406 of 2923)
Marketers? Bah!
Remiden, not a bad idea at all. It certainly incorporates the "choices" theme, and that "choosing what is right is not always choosing what is easy." Maybe you ought to post more in the wee hours of the morning! ;-)
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Ann - Aug 21, 2004 7:51 am (#1407 of 2923)
Zahn, Voldemort is the heir of Slytherin, but this doesn't mean that Harry is the Heir of anyone. People who talk a lot about bloodlines, in both the wizarding (Malfoys) and muggle (Aunt Marge) worlds, do not usually amount to much on their own. Nor need the Half-Blood Prince be the heir of anyone, although I think a descendent of Gryffindor is a still a possibility.
But I agree with you that one of the main lessons of the series is that birth is less important than choices. The reason that half-bloods do so well in these books is because they (or their parents, really) put so little value on the purity/nobility of blood. Voldemort is an exception, but that is because he has denied his father--although, if you think about it, his muggle father's name is still incorporated, secretly, in "Voldemort," just as his blood and bones are also part of Voldemort himself.
Remiden and Lady Black, I agree that Harry is going to be making some huge and consequential decision in HP6, but I'm not sure it will have to do with the HBP, since JKR said that storyline was originally part of CoS, where I do not see how such a decision could fit at all.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 21, 2004 11:38 am (#1408 of 2923)
Harry is brave but with some Slytherin qualities put into Gryffindor because of his choice. Ron is very loyal( Huffelpuff like), put into Gryffindor because he is "another Wieasly" Hermione is very very smart(a Ravenclaw trait), but in Gryffindor.
maby the trio represent the unity of GG,HH,and RR under one house and one goal and are all Heirs?
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Madame Kulich - Aug 21, 2004 12:25 pm (#1409 of 2923)
Remiden - wow! Great theory! Pretty darn impressive for 2 a.m. I like it!
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Star Crossed - Aug 21, 2004 12:36 pm (#1410 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lupin's daughter, we don't know if Ron was put in Gryffindor because he's 'another Weasley'. The movie isn't canon, after all. It's actually very unlikely Ron is a Gryffindor because his family. Look at the Patil twins. It all depends on how you are, not who your family is.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 21, 2004 2:42 pm (#1411 of 2923)
I am not questioning their placement just pointing out their other traits. Ron is very brave so Gryffindor is right for him. but when you look at the trio as a group you can better see their complimenting traits G/S for Harry, G/H for Ron and G/R for Hermione. OoF talked a lot about unifing the houses. The trio repersent that.
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Some Guy - Aug 21, 2004 4:56 pm (#1412 of 2923)
Was I way off thinking that it might be Hagrid lol?
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Steve Newton - Aug 21, 2004 5:46 pm (#1413 of 2923)
Librarian
lupin's daughter,
It occurs to me that if you add Luna to the mix you have to males and two females and may be recreating the original founders of Hogwarts.
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lupin's daughter - Aug 21, 2004 6:30 pm (#1414 of 2923)
your right...i missed that. so the founders are reunited??
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Land of the Shire - Aug 21, 2004 10:08 pm (#1415 of 2923)
I was firmly in the "Harry is the heir of Gryffindor" camp, but I must say I like the idea that Harry, though not necessarily related to GG by blood, chooses to take up his mantle. It's a very nice way to round out the conflict, I think.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 21, 2004 10:20 pm (#1416 of 2923)
Some guy put an Lol after suggesting Hagrid, but I do not see why this seems so absurd. A: one of the major discoveries in "The Chamber of Secrets" was the truth about Hagrid's expulsion. JKR did say that the second book was the key to the sixth. The only half-blood of any consequence other than Tom and Harry in the second book was Hagrid. B: We now know that Hagrid is a significant factor in the outcome of the second war. If the Giants side with Voldemort again, then the war will be much worse than before. Hagrid's attempts to civilize his half-brother are going to become extremely valuable in the next book. C: So far as we know, Hagrid's mother may literally have been "Queen" of the giants. Hagrid may very well be a "half blood prince". (I apologize for the hasty writing, I was busy in the neville longbottom forum, Hagrid was my prediction for the half-blood prince so I was surprised that he was not being taken seriously as a possibility.)
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Star Crossed - Aug 22, 2004 4:50 am (#1417 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The one problem with your theory is that Hagrid's mother couldn't have been queen. We saw the Gurgs, and the Gurg was always the biggest and the strongest, and not trying to be sexist, that sounds like it would go to the man. It's possible for female Gurgs, but it just doesn't fit to me. Also, if his mother was Gurg, I doubt that would make him prince. It seems that whoever kills you is your sucessor. So what would the point be for being a prince?
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Steve Newton - Aug 22, 2004 6:29 am (#1418 of 2923)
Librarian
Crossed,
We only know the Gurg system exists now. Years ago, before the giants were reduced and had to live close together to survive, they may have had a queen.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 22, 2004 10:03 am (#1419 of 2923)
We currently know very little about Hagrid and Grawp's mother. In order for her to possibly marry Hagrid's father she would have had to be very young (it is my belief that giants are able to bear children at a very young age and that young giants have to be closer in size and shape to the half-giants that we have met so far, otherwise it would be simply impossible for people like Hagrid and Maxime to be born) This would mean that Hagrid and his father knew almost nothing about her. the only reference to her in the books is in Rita Skeeter's article in "the Goblet of Fire" in which her name is disclosed. We have know idea what she became after she left Hagrid's father, only that she was once more accepted into giant culture and even had one more child (however weak and docile he may have been). One can assume that Rowling will reveal much more about Hagrid's personal history in the next two books. Even if the giants hold no value over blood, Hagrid may still be the half-blood prince through the act of unifying the giants as a leader. Hagrid's success with Grawp will be a key factor in the war against Voldemort I can assume that much. I also observe that Hagrid has fully cast off his position in the first book as comic relief and has become a key character. Whether he is the half-blood prince or not keep an eye on him along with Luna and Neville all of whom I think hold the keys to the end of the series.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 22, 2004 10:25 am (#1420 of 2923)
I agree with Classic. I do think Hagrid is a possibility for the HBP. It would be nice to have him as the HBP anyway - he is one of my favorite characters. I am, however, leaning toward GG being the HBP. I think there was more to the Giants structure than Gurgs when before they were driven away/killed off. So, I think there could have been a King/Queen of Giants.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 10:29 am (#1421 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I like the idea of Hagrid too. And Lupin, it would be nice for him, seeing as people thinks he's poor. Although, the "Prince" doesn't have to be royalty, it could be a title of politician, etc.
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Reading muggle - Aug 22, 2004 11:27 am (#1422 of 2923)
I hope I'm not getting off topic, but this is the closest post subject (HP6) for this question. Does anyone know who will be teaching apparition to these sixth-year students in book six? Perhaps it will be covered under a typical class, such as transfiguration. JKR continually describes it as a complicated skill, requiring licensure, so I figure it will be a separate class for the sixth-years.
Also, I believe Ron will be "of age" for an apparition license before the end of the sixth year, so I wonder if he will be doing some apparating at the end-of-the-book action scenes? I also wonder if Harry will be tempted to apparate without a license if knowing how to do so? Of course, they would have to be outside hogwart grounds to do so, but that seems to be a possibility- as in the last three books.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 11:31 am (#1423 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Apparating is not taught at Hogwarts, but at the Ministry of Magic Headquarters.
I think Harry will be warned, either by Lupin or Dumbledore, not to be tempted to try and Apparate when not of age. Maybe Molly will even restrict Ron, because of the dangers going on around them.
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Adami - Aug 22, 2004 11:41 am (#1424 of 2923)
I don't think that the HBP is Hagrid. It's to obvious. I think it's a new character but we'll never know that untill the book is finished. I hope that's soon.
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Chris. - Aug 22, 2004 11:47 am (#1425 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Hmmm... maybe the end of HbP will go like this:
Dumbledore, Harry and Mr Weasley sat in the round office of the Headmaster's. The sun shone through the window and glinted off the sheen of the mahogany desk.
"Harry, the Half-blood Prince is...."
JKR: Shoot! Ran out of printer ink!
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The One - Aug 22, 2004 12:13 pm (#1426 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
:-)
Then she really would have to move to Bolivia...
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Martin Johnston - Aug 22, 2004 12:27 pm (#1427 of 2923)
Hi all.....my first post, and I have been itching to ask the question, why all of a sudden a prince ? This is the first time I have seen such a title used in the HP series. (I could be wrong though) No queens or kings, or princesses for that matter, and now out of the blue comes a prince.
We have red in the last book that the wizarding or muggle world is not big enough for Harry or Voldermort, however, it is not stated that one HAS to kill the other. in other words, it could be that Draco Malfoy be the one to kill Harry, just to get in the good books with Voldermort.
And the most obvious question......why ? Why now a half blood prince, whoever he is going to be. What is his purpose ? I wonder if it would not be fitting for Harry (a child) to commit murder. So we now have a new (hero) who will do it for him. ?!
See if anyone has some info on this for me,
Kind regards,
Martin
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Madame Librarian - Aug 22, 2004 2:24 pm (#1428 of 2923)
Regarding apparating--I think one takes the test at the MoM, not necessarily the course. I often imagined as a form of comic relief an establishment in Hogsmeade, say, called
Maestro Houdini's School of Apparition--Guaranteed 6-week Course--Ministry approved--84% Pass Rate on first time test-takers--Reasonable Rates
Potions available to combat nervous stomachs.
Conveniently located near the school and all the shops in town.
Stop in for a brochure today!
(Group classes can be arranged.)
MHSA--look for the sky blue door at 1224 Thin Air Lane.
Ciao. Barb
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Betelgeuse Black - Aug 22, 2004 2:50 pm (#1429 of 2923)
I had a thought and I'm not sure if I got it from another person's post. I searched but I couldn't find it specifically mentioned but one post was close.
Could the half-blood prince be Ron?
I have two reasons to consider this: 1. The song, "Weasley is our King". This is just the kind of stuff JKR loves to tease us with.
2. The Weasley family's obsession with Muggles (well, Arthur anyway). The Weasley family is always being called blood-traitor, etc...
I don't really think Ron will be the HBP but I thought it would be fun to mull it over for a while.
My personal opinion is that Godric G. is the HBP. My main reason is the background story on Salazar Slytherin and why he built the CoS. I think the part of the story about the HBP that was taken out of the CoS bood that referred to GG and his battle with Salazar Slytherin. We don't find out about the Gryffindor / Slytherin battle until a later book (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) where Slytherin is forced to leave. Slytherin was trying to drive out the non pure-blood students and Gryffindor opposed him along with Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff. I just feel like this fits well with the information that this story line was removed from CoS. Maybe this book will give Harry a clue of how he can overcome LV, just as GG overcame S. Slytherin.
I've put an inpurturbable charm on this post so the dung-bombs that you throw will zoom away. Don't let that stop you from trying though. I hope I didn't ramble too much.
B. Black
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Crisz - Aug 22, 2004 2:58 pm (#1430 of 2923)
Wouldn't that be nice for Ron if he were the HBP? Then he could get the attention he always craved...
But I agree with B. Black, I don't think it's him.
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Reading muggle - Aug 22, 2004 7:03 pm (#1431 of 2923)
Hi Martin, yeah, the prince thing is sort of a mystery that everyone is really in the dark about and all we can do is guess. (which we do a lot of!) No kings or queens, but I will pipe in that Merlin sure does make appearances, such as "merlin's beard" or "order of Merlin". He served King Arther, didn't he?
And to follow up on the Apparition responses: I'm pretty sure that students of Hogwarts school of witchcraft and wizardry will be learning apparition at the school, not the MoM.
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Star Crossed - Aug 22, 2004 7:26 pm (#1432 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Reading muggle, I doubt they could get their license at the school. Don't forget, you cannot apparate or disapparate on Hogwarts grounds.
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Reading muggle - Aug 22, 2004 9:26 pm (#1433 of 2923)
Star Crossed: To get your driver's license you have to learn about how it's done, and do some practicing of some sort. That's all done in school in a driver's ed class. Apparition mastery must be the same as transfiguration or any magical subject- needing practice and education. We have been told that if it isn't done correctly bad things happen (i think the word was "splinched"). Students probably start by apparating only a foot or two, then increasing distance. I think by now we all know about apparition and Hogwarts (as Hermione has so often told us). That doesn't mean students cannot learn this by Hogwart teachers. Maybe they'll just walk to Hogsmead for class.
Then, once of age, the witch or wizard goes to MoM, takes the test and, passing, is licensed.
But the questions I had were..... will this magic be taught in a few lessons or in an entire class, and by whom? Minerva? Severus? Filius?
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 22, 2004 9:36 pm (#1434 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Betelgeuse Black - we discussed the possibility of Ron being the HbP 5 or 6 hundred posts ago. If I remember right it was discounted because of the Weasley's pure blood.
I do agree with your belief that the prince will be GG but if I not mistaken a couple of point should be made. I don't think SS was kicked out the book just says he left. And he wasn't trying to drive out the non pure bloods. He was just mad that the others did not want to be as restrictive as he was.
WOW that last dung-bomb almost came back at me. I have better leave now.
Mikie
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Madame Kulich - Aug 22, 2004 10:59 pm (#1435 of 2923)
He did create the chamber to "drive out the non pure bloods"/kill them off.
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Eponine - Aug 23, 2004 7:18 am (#1436 of 2923)
The Leaky Cauldron just posted that the title is indeed Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. The hyphen is included.
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Ann - Aug 23, 2004 8:32 am (#1437 of 2923)
Eponine - The hyphen is included.
She's listening to us! She's listening to us!
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 23, 2004 8:41 am (#1438 of 2923)
There goes the idea of Harry Potter and the Horribly Splinched Vampire (a hilarious suggestion made by someone earlier... I forget who it was).
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remiden - Aug 23, 2004 1:13 pm (#1439 of 2923)
It would not be Hagrid, because in the wizarding world, Hagrid is considered a half breed, not half blood. Rowling has bees very detailed in her writing, she would not be any less detailed just to try to trick people with a title.
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KWeldon - Aug 23, 2004 3:49 pm (#1440 of 2923)
Madame Librarian and I (among others) discussed the hyphen ad nauseum here, to some ridicule, and I feel vindicated that she chose to have it clarified to avoid the confusion it obviously could (and did) bring. Others must have discussed it elsewhere, too.
My faith in her (or Scholastic's) proper grammar usage is restored!
Harry Potter and the Horribly Splinched Vampire has a great ring, though, doesn't it!!
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True Love - Aug 23, 2004 4:31 pm (#1441 of 2923)
K Weldon - speaking of vampires, do you think the Half-Blood Prince might be a vampire? We haven't seen one yet but vampires are studied and mentioned in the books so at least Hermione would be able to figure out the person's secret if he wants to hide what he is. Could be a prince - like in Prince of Darkness.
I wonder if JKR will have a vampire on board in the next two books since she has already introduced other scary creatures as just plain folk.
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 4:42 pm (#1442 of 2923)
I thought I would re-post this here. Riddikulus pointed this out to me on another thread.
I watched disc two and this is amazing. I think the regal looking wizard whose portrait is above Dumbledore's is a very likey candidate for the Half Blood Prince. Good catch Riddikulus. I would have never found that. I have browsed through the office before but didn't even know you could Wingardium Leviosa to the portraits. How neat that is.
I think the portrait is indicating an actual prince because he has a crown around his steeple hat. I do not know if he is a prince from the wizarding world or from the muggle world. He is wearing a red robe and a yellow shirt. I think this is the same wizard as the wizard statue in the movie. This statue shows a wizard with a scale size Hogwarts in one hand and architecture tools and blue prints in the other hand. At his feet are the four animals that symbolize the houses, the lion, the snake, the eagle and the badger.
Earlier in the tour of the portraits they show Salazar Slytherin! There is a good chance that Godric Gryffindor's portrait is up on the wall as well. If the portrait is Godric Gryffindor then he may be the Half Blood Prince.
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KWeldon - Aug 23, 2004 4:50 pm (#1443 of 2923)
True Love,
I certainly hope she does, because I think it would add a great dynamic to the stories. I can't imagine where it would fit in, though. The original "no hyphen means it's a blood prince" theory pointed to a vampire, of course, since legends seem to support at least one example of a vampire having royal blood, and what else could a blood prince be?
I guess it's formally possible that the HBP is a vampire, since we have no evidence that points to anything else either!
As an aside, I'm still holding out for seeing a lethifold in the series, although since they're supposed to be tropical, this doesn't seem likely...
KWeldon
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Star Crossed - Aug 23, 2004 4:56 pm (#1444 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Sirius was in the tropics once. And Harry has visions of DD there. Oh, this doesn't sound good.
Maybe Voldie will vacation there soon! - - - - - - - - - -
Madame Librarian - Aug 23, 2004 5:15 pm (#1445 of 2923)
So, the hyphen exists! Aaah, it would be an interesting question for the next chat: Tell us, Jo, did you read the Forum and realize how different the meaning was without the hyphen? Did your web designer person inadvertently leave it out? Tell all! Tell us the hyphen story!
On second thought that would be the waste of a good question opportunity. We'll just have to be happy in the perhaps deluded notion that it was our pedantic chatter about hyphens, grammar and such that gave her the nudge.
Ciao. Barb
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KWeldon - Aug 23, 2004 5:21 pm (#1446 of 2923)
The hyphen exists, AS IT SHOULD. If she did read our discussion or a similar one of others, she must have thought, "Good grief, people, you are the most nitpicky bunch I've ever seen!"
Perhaps Lynne called her up and gave her a tongue-lashing.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 23, 2004 5:45 pm (#1447 of 2923)
HOw do you see the pic of the potential HBP?
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 6:50 pm (#1448 of 2923)
If you have the DVD of Harry Potter and Chamber of Secrets, play the the second disc. There is an option to go "behind Hogwarts". From that list choose Dumbledore's Office. You go in a circle around the office and when you are facing the door to go out you have an option to go up (A green arrow). The narrorator says Wingardium Leviosa and up you go to look at the the founders portraits. you have to go to the right and you click on the second option.
There is a portrait of a "regal looking wizard" above Dumbledore's portrait. He even looks like he could be an ancestor of either Dumbledore or Harry Potter.
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Siriusly - Aug 23, 2004 7:40 pm (#1449 of 2923)
I put this on the New Clue thread but thought it would work here.
Who has yellow eyes, described like a lion and is a half-blood?
Crookshanks!
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 7:46 pm (#1450 of 2923)
Hermione doesn't get Crookshanks until Prisoner of Azkaban.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1450 to 1500)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:18 am
Siriusly - Aug 23, 2004 7:52 pm (#1451 of 2923)
HUH?
Are you talking about the clue in COS? Did someone say the COS clue was about the HBP himself? Did I miss it? If I did, sorry, just trying to make conversation.
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#1452 of 2923)
His story could be in Chamber of Secrets......I guess Crookshanks could have been introduced in Chamber...hhmmm.
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Siriusly - Aug 23, 2004 8:04 pm (#1453 of 2923)
Or maybe Scabbers being chased by cats,,,,Just kidding
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 23, 2004 8:11 pm (#1454 of 2923)
Crookshanks is also fairly old. He was in that pet shop forever. I was going to mention these odd similarities before, but someone beat me to it.
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Madame Librarian - Aug 24, 2004 8:10 am (#1455 of 2923)
I've always thought there was more to Crookshanks than just cat-ness and Kneazle-ness (odd sentence, sorry). Maybe this is it.
Oh, and I believe he will reveal himself not to Hermione, but to Ginny.
Ciao. Barb
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Cezar Salem - Aug 24, 2004 2:33 pm (#1456 of 2923)
J.K has already afirmed that Crookshanks is not an animagus (rumer section on her site)... Iknow it doesnt exactly afirm that he isnt the HBP but it does kind lead you to think so... unless anyone can think of an alternative way of transforming ?
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 3:16 pm (#1457 of 2923)
"Who has yellow eyes, described like a lion and is a half-blood? Crookshanks!"
Crookshanks has spectacles? Sorry, just a funny thought. I am now picturing Hermiony dressing up her cat/kneazle.
"he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles"
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Madame Librarian - Aug 24, 2004 4:16 pm (#1458 of 2923)
I always like to remind myself that the series takes place at a school where each year the students learn new stuff. In this case, new stuff sometimes means things such as animagi, metamorphmagi, giants having an enclave in the far-off mountains, how to battle a boggart (and, for that matter, what is a boggart, Legilimency/Occlumency and so on. There's always new aspects to magic that arise from JKR's imagination, that are introduced as new magical subjects or challenges the kids (and we) have to learn. Harry, especially, has to find out a lot because he was not raised in a Wizarding family.
Now I'm not arguing that JKR will simply create another method for Cookshanks to become a human, or suddenly introduce a relative for Crookshanks in human form, but I leave my mind open to the possibility of a clever new concept that will answer the question of why did this remind me of Crookshanks. She may not provide this, but who knows?
Ciao. Barb
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hellocello3200 - Aug 24, 2004 5:26 pm (#1459 of 2923)
For some reason I'm reminded of Salem on Sabrina the Teenage Witch.( I admitt I did watch that show) Maybe he was turned into a cat as punishment. Well that has to be the worst thought I've had.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 25, 2004 10:57 am (#1460 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Ok...new theory, but probably rubbish.
There is a lot of talk regarding the HBP and who he is, but the general consensus is that he will be an important character in the next story. What I'm now beginning to wonder is that perhaps it is not a big character - perhaps just a name or a message. For example, the GoF was important to the story, but did not take up the whole story - it was just a catalyst for the plot. What I'm proposing is somewhat similar.
Perhaps Harry will stumble into the graveyard at Hogwarts, find a particularly old grave stone that says, "here lie's Godric Gryffindor, the Half-Blood Prince." A common theory, I admit.
Or perhaps, Harry will find a piece of paper, or book, or diary, etc that says, "the tower of the Half-Blood Prince will be opened tonight" or something similar. Basically, I'm meaning that the HBP may not be that influential to the plot, but simply a catalyst for it.
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lobelia - Aug 25, 2004 11:43 am (#1461 of 2923)
I'm with you Richard Reid. Although, I think it will be a person in past history. I do not think the HBP is a currently alive character. I think it will be the catalyst that will help us to understand the Gryffindor and Slytherin conflict. I can see Dumbledore bring out the Penseive again and show Harry this history.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 25, 2004 11:48 am (#1462 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Yes...perhaps this history involves the new person JKR has disclosed. The image was a memory from the pensieve?
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lobelia - Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm (#1463 of 2923)
I am a huge fan of the Pensieve. JKR said that Dumbledore was her character to explain parts of the story in the interview on the Chamber of Secrets DVD. I think. Steve Kloves said his was Hermoine. I think the Pensieve was given to Dumbledore to help explain the overall story.
I really wish I could have a Pensieve. Especially one that may of been handed down from my predesessor(s). Imagine knowing our history better. I also know how often I forget the small details of an individual memory. I wish I could put the memory of my son's first word and all the funny things he has said since.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 25, 2004 3:22 pm (#1464 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Personally, I feel the HBP is not a who, but a what... not a what as in creature, etc, but a part of the storyline. Sometimes, esp. since we have so much time on our hands, we forget to KISS it (keep it simple).
Just my opinion.
Edit: My take on HBP=Half baked prince... and you thought Trelawney was bad?
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dragon keeper - Aug 25, 2004 3:53 pm (#1465 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
What is the HBP supposed to be the prince of? Or is that just a figure of speech or something?
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Star Crossed - Aug 25, 2004 6:09 pm (#1466 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
TwinklingBlueEyes,
KISS is very interesting, but shouldn't there be another S? Keep It Simple S.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 25, 2004 6:17 pm (#1467 of 2923)
it is stupid. keep it simple stupid.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 25, 2004 7:19 pm (#1468 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Star Crossed, you are quite correct... I missed a key and did not proof read, sorry.
Added note: I didn't want to insult anyone :-)
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 25, 2004 9:24 pm (#1469 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I thought it could be "Keep it simple silly" A little nicer.
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linkenobi - Aug 25, 2004 11:56 pm (#1470 of 2923)
Head chairman of C.S. Incorporated
keep it super simple
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Odds Bodikins - Aug 26, 2004 6:01 am (#1471 of 2923)
For what it is worth, I don't think that HBP will be published until after May 31, 2005. That is the end of the fiscal year (June 1-May 31) for Scholastic, and according to their president's letter for the 2004 Fiscal annual report: Without last year’s unprecedented sales of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Fiscal 2005 will of course have lower trade revenues, but our core trade business will be stronger.
So they are not forecasting the revenues for HBP for this fiscal year.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 9:36 am (#1472 of 2923)
Wow Odds, nice detective work. I think they will probably release in the summer because that is when they released the last two correct? That is nice for all of us that are in school so we don't have to sit through classes with our minds on the book instead of more important things, like lunch.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 26, 2004 11:04 am (#1473 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I don't even think it will be published until 2006. Especially if JKR was telling the truth in her little hint - I like this book, but I always like my books when I am half way through it, its usually at the end I don't like them.
By the way, that was not a quote, I'm just trying to summerise what JKR said.
So, my guess is summer 2006
Richard
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 12:19 pm (#1474 of 2923)
Sadly, your probably correct Richard.I wonder how long ths one will be?( Sorry if thats been discussed already) I think it is a testament to the series' quality that JKR can get kids to read such long novels. I guess it's a good thing that the first three weren't all that long since most people wouldn't have started the series.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 26, 2004 12:25 pm (#1475 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Yeah. However, I enjoy a good read, and will be very disappointed it HBP is short, or at least short than GoF.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 12:31 pm (#1476 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Actually, I didn't take that to be her meaning at all. I thought she was trying to express how very pleased she is with the book. She mentions that normally she only likes them half-way through but hates them by the end. But this time she loves it now.
That implies that HBP is between half-way and all the way done when she is normally in the hating phase.
However, I am the eternal optimist.
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 12:33 pm (#1477 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I would love to agree with you Marcus because I dread the idea of waiting 2 more years for a book that I've already been waiting a year for!!!!
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 2:25 pm (#1478 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well If were guessing here I guess September 3, 2005. (If this sounds familiar is cause I was telling some people in the chat room) So I got this idea from someone else but they used different numbers. The combination in the safe in the room of requirements that gave us the new clue is 30, 27, 23. No one has been able to figure out what they stand for. We know that usually JKR doesn't just randomly pick numbers, we know this because of the 713 on the dart board which is the number for the vault that the PS/SS was in. So I added the numbers and it gives me 3, 9, 5. At first glance I saw March 9, 2005 (because I'm form the US) but I thought it unlikely that the book would come out in March and then Bam! It hit me September, 3, 2005. In the calender on her web site the date is written day/ month/ year. And well it's a long explanation and it's probably not right but it's a guess. Hope you enjoyed let me know what you lot think.
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Siriusly - Aug 26, 2004 2:57 pm (#1479 of 2923)
She did say the birth of the third child would not interfere with her writing. Does that mean she will finish the book before the lucky little one arrives?
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 3:03 pm (#1480 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
I hope so . It would make sense with my date. By the time the new baby come around the book would already be at the publishers. Right?
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 3:28 pm (#1481 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Lady Black, that was very clever of you and I am fond of that date because it is a week before my birthday...what an excellent present that would be!!!
Siriusly, she did say that...oh I'm so excited. This gives me new hope.
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Siriusly - Aug 26, 2004 3:50 pm (#1482 of 2923)
Here is a thought...or wishful thinking.
She said 6 and 7 would be like one long story right. So is she is half-way done, do you think she is done with 6 and continuing on to 7? I hope, I hope, I hope.
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riddikulus - Aug 26, 2004 3:58 pm (#1483 of 2923)
I personally think the book is done and it's now being typed up in final draft stages, rewrites, corrections, etc. I say that because of her clue... it's typed, with a correction. She says that she types out final versions or drafts to be sent in as final versions. Anyway, that's what I think.
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 4:20 pm (#1484 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I think you are both right. She did say that she has done quite a lot of writing, and you would think if she has had the story line in her head for so long that it wouldn't take that long to get the rought draft out. The editing seems like it would take the longest...
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Madame Librarian - Aug 26, 2004 5:15 pm (#1485 of 2923)
Sept. 3, '05. Wow. Every teacher in the US would be in big trouble. That's like the first or second week of a new school year here. I'd hate to be lecturing on the importance of the Louisiana Purchase or the difference between a solid, liquid and a gas to a roomful of 7th graders if that book was just released.
Ciao. Barb
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 5:45 pm (#1486 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well actually Here in Florida we started school August 16. And next year we will begin at the very start of August so we'd be one month into school and the students would have lost interest already. *laughs, sighs and curiously glances at her grade book*
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riddikulus - Aug 26, 2004 5:57 pm (#1487 of 2923)
Just an observation: I'm not one, but I've noticed there are a lot of teachers in here. I wonder if there's a reason teachers are interested in her books... or perhaps it's an interest in talking about them. lol Either way, I wonder if her books appeal to teachers more and if so, would JR feel really great about that? Perhaps i'm making an unfair assumption, but based on what i've read, I think there are quite a lot in here.
Oh my, i'm really off topic...sorry. Lets see, I think the HBP will be oooops there's the bell... gotta go.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 6:03 pm (#1488 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
LOL something I've noticed as well. Well I can tell you the reason I got into the books had nothing to do with teaching and I haven't come across many teacher who have read the books (except here). Ok let me stop now before I get kicked off we're really off topic.
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Phoenix song - Aug 26, 2004 7:03 pm (#1489 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Well, I'm sure that it would be hard on the teachers to gain the attention of their students if the Half-blood Prince were to be released at the start of the next school year. I'm also certain that it would be hard on the teachers to create all of their lesson plans when their OWN attention is focused on the book.
I have an idea that could possibly work to help out both the pupils and the teachers. When I was in school we would often have periods of "free reading" where all of the students and teachers were encouraged to read independently. (It was quite nice, actually.) Imagine having an entire school full of people eagerly ripping into the next great adventures of Harry Potter! I'd count myself into the group gladly!
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Star Crossed - Aug 26, 2004 7:15 pm (#1490 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lucky! We never have free reading. I basically read books during French and math class. I'm sure my teachers wouldn't mind if I tuned out a few classes to read HBP.
Actually, whenever HBP came out, I would say I was sick and stay home to read.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 9:17 am (#1491 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I just wanted to make a couple of comments before this issue is closed... I am student teaching this year and the 7th/8th grade teachers are using Harry Potter in their classrooms to teach themes such as good v. evil and the importance of choices and I think it's a superb way to get kids interested in literature. And in my 6th grade room we did have "free reading" and several of the kids would pull out HP books (myself included). We would all try to stump each other with trivia from all 5 books, it was great!
I'm still trying to get my theory out there about Colin Creevy being the HBP. Any takers?
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Parrothead Patronus - Aug 27, 2004 10:08 am (#1492 of 2923)
The weather is here.....wish you were beautiful
I tend to lean towards the HBP being an ancestor of Harry's. Will it turn out to be Godric Gryffindor? Only time will tell for sure. I will tell you this , Bagman only gave me 2 to 1 odds against it not being Gryffindor.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 10:11 am (#1493 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Dragon Slayer,
The big problem with Colin Creevy being the HBP is that Rowling stated flat out that there is nothing left of the HBP in book #2. Colin Creevy is introduced in book #2.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 10:24 am (#1494 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Right you are Prefect Marcus, and we haven't heard anything of him since...he and Dean Thomas were the two students that I was thinking could be the HBP because of the muggle-born thing, but now I'm not so sure. Back to square one.
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I Am Used Vlad - Aug 27, 2004 11:48 am (#1495 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
JKR said that there is no trace of the HBP storyline left in CoS. To me, that doesn't mean that the character who ends up being the HBP was not in CoS. I think Colin and Dean can still be considered, dragon slayer.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 11:54 am (#1496 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Thanks nimrod. My new debate is not who, specifically, the HBP will be, but if it will be a student, an adult, a new character or an old one, or just a memory of someone in the past, such as Tom Riddle. I keep going back and forth, geez, I can't wait for the book to come out!!!
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Phoenix song - Aug 27, 2004 12:07 pm (#1497 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I agree that although JKR said that there was no trace of the HBP storyline left in CoS that it doesn't mean that the HBP does not appear in the CoS. I have long wondered about the Creevey brothers and the role that they will play in the future books.
I think that it may be possible that they weren't really born to two muggle parents. There were a lot of wizards that went into hiding to protect themselves from Voldemort. Maybe one or both of his parents is magical and has kept it a secret because they feared Voldemort's return.
Anyway, Dragon Slayer, I think that it's still possible for Colin to be the HBP.
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wolfgrl - Aug 27, 2004 12:54 pm (#1498 of 2923)
Ok, I have an odd very off the wall thought on the Half Blood Prince. Maybe the title is misleading, because we believe "Half Blood" to only mean one who's bloodline is half wizard and half muggle. Hear me out here. What if in this instance it means half Griffendor and half Slytheren, or any combination of two houses. Being a descendent of two houses would give cause to be given the title of Prince by students (and others) even if it is not an official title. Maybe we are dealing with the heir of two houses in one person.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 1:06 pm (#1499 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I'm not sure I understand. Are you thinking that "heir" doesn't refer to blood lines at all, but people who were in the houses at one time or another. So the HBP could be someone/anyone who was in both Slytherin and Griffindor during his seven years at Hogwarts? Is that possible? Has there been a discussion about the possibility of switching houses? I'm new so I might have missed it.
That is an interesting theory Wolfgrl, but I'm not sure I'm on board yet only because there has been such a focus on the muggle-born v. pure-blood issue in the books. But at this point anything is possible.
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riddikulus - Aug 27, 2004 1:38 pm (#1500 of 2923)
Edited by Aug 27, 2004 1:39 pm
I didn't know whether I should put this on the eyes thread or here...
There has been so much focus on Harrys green eyes... I didn't think of Voldys red eyes. If Voldy is the heir of Slytherin and his eyes are snake like and red... then doesn't it reason that Harrys green pickled toad eyes are Gryffindor like? And if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor and if I think that Petunia being one who can carry on the genes, along with Lily, and Petunia is able to give birth to a wizard, then that might in fact make Dudley the HBP.
edit: don't forget, he doesn't have to show magical abilities, he could be a squib.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
HUH?
Are you talking about the clue in COS? Did someone say the COS clue was about the HBP himself? Did I miss it? If I did, sorry, just trying to make conversation.
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Warty Harris - Aug 23, 2004 8:02 pm (#1452 of 2923)
His story could be in Chamber of Secrets......I guess Crookshanks could have been introduced in Chamber...hhmmm.
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Siriusly - Aug 23, 2004 8:04 pm (#1453 of 2923)
Or maybe Scabbers being chased by cats,,,,Just kidding
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 23, 2004 8:11 pm (#1454 of 2923)
Crookshanks is also fairly old. He was in that pet shop forever. I was going to mention these odd similarities before, but someone beat me to it.
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Madame Librarian - Aug 24, 2004 8:10 am (#1455 of 2923)
I've always thought there was more to Crookshanks than just cat-ness and Kneazle-ness (odd sentence, sorry). Maybe this is it.
Oh, and I believe he will reveal himself not to Hermione, but to Ginny.
Ciao. Barb
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Cezar Salem - Aug 24, 2004 2:33 pm (#1456 of 2923)
J.K has already afirmed that Crookshanks is not an animagus (rumer section on her site)... Iknow it doesnt exactly afirm that he isnt the HBP but it does kind lead you to think so... unless anyone can think of an alternative way of transforming ?
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 3:16 pm (#1457 of 2923)
"Who has yellow eyes, described like a lion and is a half-blood? Crookshanks!"
Crookshanks has spectacles? Sorry, just a funny thought. I am now picturing Hermiony dressing up her cat/kneazle.
"he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles"
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Madame Librarian - Aug 24, 2004 4:16 pm (#1458 of 2923)
I always like to remind myself that the series takes place at a school where each year the students learn new stuff. In this case, new stuff sometimes means things such as animagi, metamorphmagi, giants having an enclave in the far-off mountains, how to battle a boggart (and, for that matter, what is a boggart, Legilimency/Occlumency and so on. There's always new aspects to magic that arise from JKR's imagination, that are introduced as new magical subjects or challenges the kids (and we) have to learn. Harry, especially, has to find out a lot because he was not raised in a Wizarding family.
Now I'm not arguing that JKR will simply create another method for Cookshanks to become a human, or suddenly introduce a relative for Crookshanks in human form, but I leave my mind open to the possibility of a clever new concept that will answer the question of why did this remind me of Crookshanks. She may not provide this, but who knows?
Ciao. Barb
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hellocello3200 - Aug 24, 2004 5:26 pm (#1459 of 2923)
For some reason I'm reminded of Salem on Sabrina the Teenage Witch.( I admitt I did watch that show) Maybe he was turned into a cat as punishment. Well that has to be the worst thought I've had.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 25, 2004 10:57 am (#1460 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Ok...new theory, but probably rubbish.
There is a lot of talk regarding the HBP and who he is, but the general consensus is that he will be an important character in the next story. What I'm now beginning to wonder is that perhaps it is not a big character - perhaps just a name or a message. For example, the GoF was important to the story, but did not take up the whole story - it was just a catalyst for the plot. What I'm proposing is somewhat similar.
Perhaps Harry will stumble into the graveyard at Hogwarts, find a particularly old grave stone that says, "here lie's Godric Gryffindor, the Half-Blood Prince." A common theory, I admit.
Or perhaps, Harry will find a piece of paper, or book, or diary, etc that says, "the tower of the Half-Blood Prince will be opened tonight" or something similar. Basically, I'm meaning that the HBP may not be that influential to the plot, but simply a catalyst for it.
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lobelia - Aug 25, 2004 11:43 am (#1461 of 2923)
I'm with you Richard Reid. Although, I think it will be a person in past history. I do not think the HBP is a currently alive character. I think it will be the catalyst that will help us to understand the Gryffindor and Slytherin conflict. I can see Dumbledore bring out the Penseive again and show Harry this history.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 25, 2004 11:48 am (#1462 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Yes...perhaps this history involves the new person JKR has disclosed. The image was a memory from the pensieve?
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lobelia - Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm (#1463 of 2923)
I am a huge fan of the Pensieve. JKR said that Dumbledore was her character to explain parts of the story in the interview on the Chamber of Secrets DVD. I think. Steve Kloves said his was Hermoine. I think the Pensieve was given to Dumbledore to help explain the overall story.
I really wish I could have a Pensieve. Especially one that may of been handed down from my predesessor(s). Imagine knowing our history better. I also know how often I forget the small details of an individual memory. I wish I could put the memory of my son's first word and all the funny things he has said since.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 25, 2004 3:22 pm (#1464 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Personally, I feel the HBP is not a who, but a what... not a what as in creature, etc, but a part of the storyline. Sometimes, esp. since we have so much time on our hands, we forget to KISS it (keep it simple).
Just my opinion.
Edit: My take on HBP=Half baked prince... and you thought Trelawney was bad?
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dragon keeper - Aug 25, 2004 3:53 pm (#1465 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
What is the HBP supposed to be the prince of? Or is that just a figure of speech or something?
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Star Crossed - Aug 25, 2004 6:09 pm (#1466 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
TwinklingBlueEyes,
KISS is very interesting, but shouldn't there be another S? Keep It Simple S.
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Madame Kulich - Aug 25, 2004 6:17 pm (#1467 of 2923)
it is stupid. keep it simple stupid.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 25, 2004 7:19 pm (#1468 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Star Crossed, you are quite correct... I missed a key and did not proof read, sorry.
Added note: I didn't want to insult anyone :-)
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MickeyCee3948 - Aug 25, 2004 9:24 pm (#1469 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I thought it could be "Keep it simple silly" A little nicer.
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linkenobi - Aug 25, 2004 11:56 pm (#1470 of 2923)
Head chairman of C.S. Incorporated
keep it super simple
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Odds Bodikins - Aug 26, 2004 6:01 am (#1471 of 2923)
For what it is worth, I don't think that HBP will be published until after May 31, 2005. That is the end of the fiscal year (June 1-May 31) for Scholastic, and according to their president's letter for the 2004 Fiscal annual report: Without last year’s unprecedented sales of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Fiscal 2005 will of course have lower trade revenues, but our core trade business will be stronger.
So they are not forecasting the revenues for HBP for this fiscal year.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 9:36 am (#1472 of 2923)
Wow Odds, nice detective work. I think they will probably release in the summer because that is when they released the last two correct? That is nice for all of us that are in school so we don't have to sit through classes with our minds on the book instead of more important things, like lunch.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 26, 2004 11:04 am (#1473 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I don't even think it will be published until 2006. Especially if JKR was telling the truth in her little hint - I like this book, but I always like my books when I am half way through it, its usually at the end I don't like them.
By the way, that was not a quote, I'm just trying to summerise what JKR said.
So, my guess is summer 2006
Richard
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hellocello3200 - Aug 26, 2004 12:19 pm (#1474 of 2923)
Sadly, your probably correct Richard.I wonder how long ths one will be?( Sorry if thats been discussed already) I think it is a testament to the series' quality that JKR can get kids to read such long novels. I guess it's a good thing that the first three weren't all that long since most people wouldn't have started the series.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 26, 2004 12:25 pm (#1475 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Yeah. However, I enjoy a good read, and will be very disappointed it HBP is short, or at least short than GoF.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 26, 2004 12:31 pm (#1476 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Actually, I didn't take that to be her meaning at all. I thought she was trying to express how very pleased she is with the book. She mentions that normally she only likes them half-way through but hates them by the end. But this time she loves it now.
That implies that HBP is between half-way and all the way done when she is normally in the hating phase.
However, I am the eternal optimist.
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 12:33 pm (#1477 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I would love to agree with you Marcus because I dread the idea of waiting 2 more years for a book that I've already been waiting a year for!!!!
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 2:25 pm (#1478 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well If were guessing here I guess September 3, 2005. (If this sounds familiar is cause I was telling some people in the chat room) So I got this idea from someone else but they used different numbers. The combination in the safe in the room of requirements that gave us the new clue is 30, 27, 23. No one has been able to figure out what they stand for. We know that usually JKR doesn't just randomly pick numbers, we know this because of the 713 on the dart board which is the number for the vault that the PS/SS was in. So I added the numbers and it gives me 3, 9, 5. At first glance I saw March 9, 2005 (because I'm form the US) but I thought it unlikely that the book would come out in March and then Bam! It hit me September, 3, 2005. In the calender on her web site the date is written day/ month/ year. And well it's a long explanation and it's probably not right but it's a guess. Hope you enjoyed let me know what you lot think.
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Siriusly - Aug 26, 2004 2:57 pm (#1479 of 2923)
She did say the birth of the third child would not interfere with her writing. Does that mean she will finish the book before the lucky little one arrives?
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 3:03 pm (#1480 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
I hope so . It would make sense with my date. By the time the new baby come around the book would already be at the publishers. Right?
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 3:28 pm (#1481 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Lady Black, that was very clever of you and I am fond of that date because it is a week before my birthday...what an excellent present that would be!!!
Siriusly, she did say that...oh I'm so excited. This gives me new hope.
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Siriusly - Aug 26, 2004 3:50 pm (#1482 of 2923)
Here is a thought...or wishful thinking.
She said 6 and 7 would be like one long story right. So is she is half-way done, do you think she is done with 6 and continuing on to 7? I hope, I hope, I hope.
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riddikulus - Aug 26, 2004 3:58 pm (#1483 of 2923)
I personally think the book is done and it's now being typed up in final draft stages, rewrites, corrections, etc. I say that because of her clue... it's typed, with a correction. She says that she types out final versions or drafts to be sent in as final versions. Anyway, that's what I think.
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dragon keeper - Aug 26, 2004 4:20 pm (#1484 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I think you are both right. She did say that she has done quite a lot of writing, and you would think if she has had the story line in her head for so long that it wouldn't take that long to get the rought draft out. The editing seems like it would take the longest...
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Madame Librarian - Aug 26, 2004 5:15 pm (#1485 of 2923)
Sept. 3, '05. Wow. Every teacher in the US would be in big trouble. That's like the first or second week of a new school year here. I'd hate to be lecturing on the importance of the Louisiana Purchase or the difference between a solid, liquid and a gas to a roomful of 7th graders if that book was just released.
Ciao. Barb
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 5:45 pm (#1486 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Well actually Here in Florida we started school August 16. And next year we will begin at the very start of August so we'd be one month into school and the students would have lost interest already. *laughs, sighs and curiously glances at her grade book*
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riddikulus - Aug 26, 2004 5:57 pm (#1487 of 2923)
Just an observation: I'm not one, but I've noticed there are a lot of teachers in here. I wonder if there's a reason teachers are interested in her books... or perhaps it's an interest in talking about them. lol Either way, I wonder if her books appeal to teachers more and if so, would JR feel really great about that? Perhaps i'm making an unfair assumption, but based on what i've read, I think there are quite a lot in here.
Oh my, i'm really off topic...sorry. Lets see, I think the HBP will be oooops there's the bell... gotta go.
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Lady Black99 - Aug 26, 2004 6:03 pm (#1488 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
LOL something I've noticed as well. Well I can tell you the reason I got into the books had nothing to do with teaching and I haven't come across many teacher who have read the books (except here). Ok let me stop now before I get kicked off we're really off topic.
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Phoenix song - Aug 26, 2004 7:03 pm (#1489 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Well, I'm sure that it would be hard on the teachers to gain the attention of their students if the Half-blood Prince were to be released at the start of the next school year. I'm also certain that it would be hard on the teachers to create all of their lesson plans when their OWN attention is focused on the book.
I have an idea that could possibly work to help out both the pupils and the teachers. When I was in school we would often have periods of "free reading" where all of the students and teachers were encouraged to read independently. (It was quite nice, actually.) Imagine having an entire school full of people eagerly ripping into the next great adventures of Harry Potter! I'd count myself into the group gladly!
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Star Crossed - Aug 26, 2004 7:15 pm (#1490 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lucky! We never have free reading. I basically read books during French and math class. I'm sure my teachers wouldn't mind if I tuned out a few classes to read HBP.
Actually, whenever HBP came out, I would say I was sick and stay home to read. - - - - - - - - - -
dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 9:17 am (#1491 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I just wanted to make a couple of comments before this issue is closed... I am student teaching this year and the 7th/8th grade teachers are using Harry Potter in their classrooms to teach themes such as good v. evil and the importance of choices and I think it's a superb way to get kids interested in literature. And in my 6th grade room we did have "free reading" and several of the kids would pull out HP books (myself included). We would all try to stump each other with trivia from all 5 books, it was great!
I'm still trying to get my theory out there about Colin Creevy being the HBP. Any takers?
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Parrothead Patronus - Aug 27, 2004 10:08 am (#1492 of 2923)
The weather is here.....wish you were beautiful
I tend to lean towards the HBP being an ancestor of Harry's. Will it turn out to be Godric Gryffindor? Only time will tell for sure. I will tell you this , Bagman only gave me 2 to 1 odds against it not being Gryffindor.
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Prefect Marcus - Aug 27, 2004 10:11 am (#1493 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Dragon Slayer,
The big problem with Colin Creevy being the HBP is that Rowling stated flat out that there is nothing left of the HBP in book #2. Colin Creevy is introduced in book #2.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 10:24 am (#1494 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Right you are Prefect Marcus, and we haven't heard anything of him since...he and Dean Thomas were the two students that I was thinking could be the HBP because of the muggle-born thing, but now I'm not so sure. Back to square one.
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I Am Used Vlad - Aug 27, 2004 11:48 am (#1495 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
JKR said that there is no trace of the HBP storyline left in CoS. To me, that doesn't mean that the character who ends up being the HBP was not in CoS. I think Colin and Dean can still be considered, dragon slayer.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 11:54 am (#1496 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Thanks nimrod. My new debate is not who, specifically, the HBP will be, but if it will be a student, an adult, a new character or an old one, or just a memory of someone in the past, such as Tom Riddle. I keep going back and forth, geez, I can't wait for the book to come out!!!
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Phoenix song - Aug 27, 2004 12:07 pm (#1497 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I agree that although JKR said that there was no trace of the HBP storyline left in CoS that it doesn't mean that the HBP does not appear in the CoS. I have long wondered about the Creevey brothers and the role that they will play in the future books.
I think that it may be possible that they weren't really born to two muggle parents. There were a lot of wizards that went into hiding to protect themselves from Voldemort. Maybe one or both of his parents is magical and has kept it a secret because they feared Voldemort's return.
Anyway, Dragon Slayer, I think that it's still possible for Colin to be the HBP.
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wolfgrl - Aug 27, 2004 12:54 pm (#1498 of 2923)
Ok, I have an odd very off the wall thought on the Half Blood Prince. Maybe the title is misleading, because we believe "Half Blood" to only mean one who's bloodline is half wizard and half muggle. Hear me out here. What if in this instance it means half Griffendor and half Slytheren, or any combination of two houses. Being a descendent of two houses would give cause to be given the title of Prince by students (and others) even if it is not an official title. Maybe we are dealing with the heir of two houses in one person.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 1:06 pm (#1499 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I'm not sure I understand. Are you thinking that "heir" doesn't refer to blood lines at all, but people who were in the houses at one time or another. So the HBP could be someone/anyone who was in both Slytherin and Griffindor during his seven years at Hogwarts? Is that possible? Has there been a discussion about the possibility of switching houses? I'm new so I might have missed it.
That is an interesting theory Wolfgrl, but I'm not sure I'm on board yet only because there has been such a focus on the muggle-born v. pure-blood issue in the books. But at this point anything is possible.
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riddikulus - Aug 27, 2004 1:38 pm (#1500 of 2923)
Edited by Aug 27, 2004 1:39 pm
I didn't know whether I should put this on the eyes thread or here...
There has been so much focus on Harrys green eyes... I didn't think of Voldys red eyes. If Voldy is the heir of Slytherin and his eyes are snake like and red... then doesn't it reason that Harrys green pickled toad eyes are Gryffindor like? And if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor and if I think that Petunia being one who can carry on the genes, along with Lily, and Petunia is able to give birth to a wizard, then that might in fact make Dudley the HBP.
edit: don't forget, he doesn't have to show magical abilities, he could be a squib.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1501 to 1550)
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 1:47 pm (#1501 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
That could be true since we don't actually know who the HBP is, but JKR said that we won't see much of Dudley in the next book. She says, "what you see is what you get...he's just Dudley" (from the JKR site)
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riddikulus - Aug 27, 2004 1:56 pm (#1502 of 2923)
Good point. I was thinking though... it'll be more like a discovery we come to find near the end... to show that Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, because of who the HBP is. Oh, I just don't know.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 2:03 pm (#1503 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I know how you feel. I keep coming up with ideas and then I read other ideas and then I am back to the beginning...
But I do like the idea of Harry being the heir of Griffindor and not having the heir and the HBP being the same person. It would balance the Harry/Voldy, Slytherin/Griffindor good/evil dynamic too.
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wolfgrl - Aug 27, 2004 2:07 pm (#1504 of 2923)
I did actually mean the heir to both as in blood line. I am my mom's heir and my dads heir but their blood lines are separate. It would be possible to be a decendent of two of the founders. And it would be very like JKR to make the title a puzzle in itself.
But on the same note, I doubt JKR would revisit a already hatched out story line (being the heir to somthing). Like I said above it was an odd off the wall thought.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 2:15 pm (#1505 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I think it was a good thought, I am just confused by the whole heir and descendant thing because I know that it has been discussed in detail somewhere else. Was it that an heir is specifically the first born son, while the descendant could be anyone who is related by blood? Does anyone recall? I don't know maybe I am getting too caught up in semantics...anyhow, I wasn't trying to discredit your thought by any means, I was just trying to make sure I understood it...sorry.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 27, 2004 4:15 pm (#1506 of 2923)
The problem with guessing who the half-blood prince is is the fact that almost all of the major characters in the books who aren't death eaters or muggle-borns are half-blood. From what we have heard there are more half-bloods than pure-bloods. Then we have to take into account the half human characters such as Hagrid and others. If we tried to discuss one half-blood character a week, the book would have come out by the time we finished. (Hey, that sounds like a good idea actually, where do we start?)
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 4:18 pm (#1507 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Well, we have got some time to kill before the book comes out...So, more than likely the HBP will be a NEW character, maybe...Are we back to McLaggan yet?
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Madame Librarian - Aug 27, 2004 5:05 pm (#1508 of 2923)
Here's an idea that may be a bit of a repeat or not terribly original (apologies if someone else presented something like it before).
What if JKR is going to tell a story within a story in book 6? Maybe the Prince is an imaginary, fairy tale type character that all but the littlest Witches and Wizards realize is just a myth. A few of the Muggle-borns or Muggle raised kids (like Harry and Hermione) hear the story from their savvy friends one cozy night around the Gryffindor fireplace, everybody chuckles and tells how much they believed in this guy when they were little (kind of like our Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus). Funny thing is, Harry starts getting ideas and hints from...oh, Dobby say...that there is a tiny shred of evidence that this guy did exist. It's an exciting side-story adventure, a wild goose chase that diverts us from the big battles and trials of VWII. Interesting but irrelevant, but just for a little nice O. Henry-type irony, we will always be left wondering if the legend were perhaps true and might have been the big difference in the outcome of the story.
Weird idea, huh?
Ciao. Barb
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hellocello3200 - Aug 27, 2004 5:17 pm (#1509 of 2923)
I'm not suggesting that the HBP is Hagrid, but I think it is possible that Half Blood could refer to half human and half something else. The HBP could also be someone that we have met but don't know there blood status. DD, Lupin, and Moody, to name a few.
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Ozymandias - Aug 27, 2004 6:30 pm (#1510 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
I like the concept, Barb, but I don't really believe it'll happen. All of the book titles so far have been important in the main storyline, even those that, like the GoF, made only brief appearances. So I think the HBP will not be part of the B-plot. Now McClaggan or New-Clue-Guy, on the other hand, certainly have potential.
Oh, and HelloCello, we do know that Lupin is a half-blood. It was never in the books, but JKR gave us that tidbit in a chat. As for half-blood referring to half-human, half-something, those people have been referred to fairly consistently as half-breeds, so I don't think that they would be considered half-bloods. Good thoughts, though, especially Moody. I don't remember his name being brought up so far.
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:08 pm (#1511 of 2923)
Hey i had a thought maybe the HBP is Slyitherin Bc he could have been just like tom riddle.... by that i mean he had a fater who was a mugggle and he also hated muggles.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 27, 2004 7:11 pm (#1512 of 2923)
Well if the book was called the Half-Breed Queen, I'd put my money on Cher.
As for Moody, thats just a character that popped into my head. I wouldn't put it past JKR to make the HBP someone that was not known to be half-blood before.
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:13 pm (#1513 of 2923)
DRagon we Hagrid cant be the HBP bc he has a brither and his brother would also be the HBP.
unless they had different Fathers!!
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Ozymandias - Aug 27, 2004 7:28 pm (#1514 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Conor, they did have different fathers. Hagrid's father was a wizard, making him a half-breed, while Grawp is a full-fledged giant.
Also, I don't mean to be the English Police, but it's a policy of the Forum to try to use proper capitalization, punctuation, etc. This is because many of the members do not speak English as a first language, so we try to make our posts easy for everyone to understand. Thanks, and welcome to the forum!
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:39 pm (#1515 of 2923)
SO Ozymandias what do you think about the half-blood Prince being Slyitherin???
P.S. yOu iCOn is awsome
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Ozymandias - Aug 27, 2004 7:41 pm (#1516 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Personally, I think it's Godric Gryffindor. For it to be Slytherin seems too repetitive of the "I'm a half-blood but I hate everyone who isn't a pureblood" storyline that we have with Voldemort.
PS: Thanks!
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:48 pm (#1517 of 2923)
ya i get what your saying
im just trign to think of events that might of happened in the chamber ??
have any idea what harry could of found down there????
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 8:07 pm (#1518 of 2923)
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
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Magical Llama - Aug 28, 2004 4:18 am (#1519 of 2923)
JKR: "There is more to the Sorting Hat than what you have read about in the first three books. Readers will find out what the Sorting Hat becomes as they get into future books." (The Boston Globe, October 1999)
I believe the sorting hat will transform into Gryffindor, or the collective spirit of the four founders, and this will become the half-blood prince. After all, isn't it probable that at least one of the founders was muggle born?
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vball man - Aug 28, 2004 8:25 am (#1520 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
If the sorting hat is Godric, then Ron's statement, "It's got to be a pretty boring life, hasn't it, being a hat?..." is more true than he knew. GG would have spent a lot of time as a hat!
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Her-melanie - Aug 28, 2004 9:27 am (#1521 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I keep wondering how many of Harry's loved ones are going to die in the next 2 books. JK has said she wouldn't want to be Harry because she knows the terrible things in store for him. What could be worse for someone with a big heart than seeing their loved ones die?
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 9:29 am (#1522 of 2923)
How complex is the sorting hat? Is it only cappable of sorting and singing or can you carry on a conversation with it that has nothing to do with the houses. I would like to know how much of a mind is in the hat.
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riddikulus - Aug 28, 2004 9:33 am (#1523 of 2923)
I presented a theory long ago on the thread about the sorting hat being GG. It was shot down. It went something like; if Tom Riddle can save his 16 yr old self in a diary, why can't GG do the same in a hat? After in, different to the books, Harry has a conversation with the hat, in the movie. He is able to speak to it, unlike in the books, where it can just read your thoughts.
Anyway, my theory was shot down, as people were quick to point out that the 4 heads of the houses magic-ed a brain into the hat, in order for it to be able to do what it does.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 9:34 am (#1524 of 2923)
The pattern seems to be that the further into the books we get, the more people die and the closer those people are to Harry. In PS the only good person to die is someone Harry never met. In GoF someone who Harry likes but doesn't know all that well dies. In OotP Harry loses the closest thing he has to a father. It would seem likely that death will occur more frequenty and to those Harry cares about the most. Whether or not JKR will kill off Ron or Hermonie is debatable.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 9:36 am (#1525 of 2923)
Maybe the hat isn't Godric, but it might be someone else, or just a hat with personality.
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Her-melanie - Aug 28, 2004 9:47 am (#1526 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I don't know...a thousand years is a long time for a person to be a hat.
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Warty Harris - Aug 28, 2004 10:12 am (#1527 of 2923)
The Sorting Hat does talk in the books. Only the person wearing the hat can hear them. I do think the Half Blood Prince is Godric Gryffindor.
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Ann - Aug 28, 2004 10:34 am (#1528 of 2923)
It may be significant that the Hat says when Salazar Slytherin left, "He left us quite downhearted"(emphasis mine). So it does sound as if the Hat was either there and considered itself a separate member of the Hogwarts staff at the time, or that it is GG (or the remaining three, somehow). We know it is Gryffindor's hat, but the earlier song said only that he put "some brains in me" (emphasis again mine). It doesn't say where those brains come from.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 28, 2004 10:52 am (#1529 of 2923)
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Ann...very clever. I didn't even think about that. Perhaps that year, the song included something about the HBP, or the relationship with GG and SS that could be influential in future events.
Richard
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 28, 2004 1:21 pm (#1530 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I LOVE the new avatar Warty! I am still up in the air as to who or what the HBP is.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 4:05 pm (#1531 of 2923)
Maybe the hat sort of hybernates during the year so time passes more quickly. I think it is also possible that Godric Gryffindor is to the hat as a person is to their portrait. It isn't really the person, but does have there prsonality.
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Magical Llama - Aug 28, 2004 4:31 pm (#1532 of 2923)
Warty Harris wrote: The Sorting Hat does talk in the books. Only the person wearing the hat can hear them.
Yes, this is certainly true, but the sorting hat can sing aloud.
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Warty Harris - Aug 28, 2004 4:36 pm (#1533 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes, I love your new avatar as well.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 28, 2004 4:40 pm (#1534 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Thank you, but I just had to change it, it was giving me the collywobbles. Esp. being anounced in book 2! I still can't get over it. Wonder if he took a page from Binns book? Oh my!, I need a butterbeer.
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Warty Harris - Aug 28, 2004 8:10 pm (#1535 of 2923)
What do you mean by? That it seems as if it is saying something about Dumbledore's future?? Very collywobbles. Yes.
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conor maloney - Aug 28, 2004 8:55 pm (#1536 of 2923)
took a liking to the idea about GG as the HBP but there is one flaw.... who sorted the students in to there houses in the begining
or did SS leave before they had students???
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conor maloney - Aug 28, 2004 9:02 pm (#1537 of 2923)
P.S. and hopefully JK will tell us other things like how lupin got to be a werewolf, why hogwarts was founded, what will become of the giants, ect.
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remiden - Aug 28, 2004 9:40 pm (#1538 of 2923)
OK!!! I HAVE GOT IT!!!!
From all the way back in the first book, when Harry is rescued int he forest, the centaur tells him that the blood of a unicorn will keep someone alive, but it is but a half life. MAybe the HBP is someone that drank unicorn blood...... or maybe not.
Back to the Hagrid issue, Rowling went to lengths in the last book to show that he was a half breed. Not a half blood, but a half breed. She even had Umbridge hate Hagrid because he was a half breed. She would not get repetitive by centering a title about him being a halfblood. It would be...... wrong. (that is the only word I can think of to describe it) It would be very disappointing that she could not think of something better or more original than that. She has tried hard to fool everyone so far, so I would expect the quality of her writing and her surprises to continue. Hagrid is simply a blatantly obvious choice that takes little to come up with. GG is only a little more original than that. If you took a list of the characters already know about, and selected to top five most likely to be the HBP (knowng that Hary and Voldie were out of the running) then Hagrid, Slythering, and Gryffendor would be the top three. And in a small way, it would seem like a lack of effort.
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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 12:09 am (#1539 of 2923)
My original theory of GG being the sorting hat got me thinking. What if it's not the hat at all. Petigrew spent 12 years as a rat. What if someone has spent even more time as, say, a Phoenix? Is there anyone with knowledge on animaguses? Do you know if there are any animals, birds, etc. that are off limits to transform into?
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Magical Llama - Aug 29, 2004 1:22 am (#1540 of 2923)
A phoenix is a magical creature. Thus far, animagus has only applied to animals.
I agree with you about the hat, Riddikulus (see post Magical Llama 8/28/04 4:18am ).
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Star Crossed - Aug 29, 2004 6:36 am (#1541 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Conor,
Because there are people who don't have English as their first language, we ask our members to use captial letters and correct puncuation. If you don't use a capital I at the beginning of a paragaph, it will indent your entire paragraph. Also, if you have another idea to post on the same forum, instead of making a new post, you can click the edit button if it's before thirty minutes is up. Keeps things running quicker.
As for your question about how the students were sorted beforehand, I believe the four founders interviewed the students and chose which ones would fit best in their house.
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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 9:11 am (#1542 of 2923)
Llama, Very interesting. "What the sorting hat BECOMES" Of course, that could simple mean... the sorting hat becomes a catalyst between the houses, and eventually brings them all together, through inspirational song... or my off the wall, yet well accepted, but shot down theory, could come to fruition.
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Solitaire - Aug 29, 2004 3:59 pm (#1543 of 2923)
The Hat could become a sort of Oracle, couldn't it? In OotP, Nearly Headless Nick says that, since it lives in Dumbledore's office, it is bound to pick up things. He also tells the kids that "the Hat feels itself honor bound to give the school warning whenever it feels"--and at that point, he was cut off by the commencement of the Sorting Ceremony.
Later, when all have been sorted and the feast has begun, Hermione pursues the issue. Nick says that he has heard the Hat give several warnings before, "always when it detects periods of great danger for the school. And always, of course, its advice is the same: Stand together, be strong from within."
I've always understood its song in GoF to mean that the Sorting Hat was given its brains before Slytherin left, which is why the Hat is so set on unity among the houses, which was the original intent ... wasn't it? If this is indeed so, it makes me wonder what the Hat might have said the morning Salazar Slytherin departed.
Solitaire
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Gerald Costales - Aug 29, 2004 8:05 pm (#1544 of 2923)
New to the forum. I think the HBP is someone we'll see in a flashback. I also think the recent excerpt from the Rowling's website is about the HBP. The HBP is an animagus who changes into a lion (mane, yellow eyes). Don't forget both McGonagall & Skeeter both have spectale markings when they change into a cat & beetle respectively. I also think someone possibly the HBP is the original owner of the Mirror of Erised.
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Gerald Costales - Aug 29, 2004 8:11 pm (#1545 of 2923)
Sorry, I'm off topic but wanted to get some reaction on these ideas. Sorry, if they've been covered this is all new to me.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 29, 2004 8:40 pm (#1546 of 2923)
A phoenix is a magical creature. Thus far, animagus has only applied to animals.*
We now know that wizards can have phoenix's as patronuses. Up until JKR told us that we had only seen non-magical patronuses (stags, otters, swans, etc.) I think that if a wizard chose to transform into a magical creature as his animagus form, he might transform into a magical beast with no magical powers such as a phoenix that is no more than a red bird the size of a swan. Or a unicorn that is no more than a horse with a single horn. I don't see any limits on the shape of an animagus so far. I had thought I had heard somewhere that a wizard's patronus would match his animagus form (if he had one) but I may have just read it in the form of speculation on this forum. If that were true, than wizards like Rita Skeeter and Peter Pettigrew would be utterly useless at fighting dementors. I don't think that GG or DD are phoenix animaguses, but JKR's announcement has led me to as the question: "Is it possible?".
Magical Llama - Aug 29, 2004 11:18 pm (#1547 of 2923)[/b]
Squid wrote: I had thought I had heard somewhere that a wizard's patronus would match his animagus form (if he had one)
I would love to see a patronus/animagus flober-worm, the perfect magical-creature for Fudge.
Squid wrote: I don't think that GG or DD are phoenix animaguses, but JKR's announcement has led me to as the question: "Is it possible?".
Only an incredibly complex character would be able to change into a phoenix, but anything is possible in HP. Nevile would make a great animagus phoenix, but I can't remember if his patronus had a form in OotP.
If personalities can change over time, I wonder if a patronus, or animagus form, can change also. Any thoughts? Thanks for the post Squid.
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The giant squid - Aug 30, 2004 12:38 am (#1548 of 2923)
I think the patronus/animagus connection is speculative. At least, I don't remember running across anywhere that JKR said as much. Those with more patience and free time than myself, feel free to look into this.
--Mike
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Gerald Costales - Aug 30, 2004 6:23 am (#1549 of 2923)
Of the know patronuses Harry's is a stag (his father as Prongs), Hermonine's - otter (Rowling said one of her favorite animals are otters & Hermonine is most like her when she was younger - a little know it all), Cho's is a swan, & finally Dumbledore's - phoenix. The pattern if any is that your partronus reflects your personality or is something personal to you (Harry - Prongs). WartyHarris said the HBP is Gryffindor. I want to add to that & my first post. There's a reason Gryffindor House's mascot is a lion. If Godric G. was an animagus that changes into a lion, then the lion mascot of his house really makes sense and has an added meaning (Godric is a lion animagus). The mascot for Slytherin is a serpent and Salazar is a parselmouth and could talk to serpents - as Ron pointed out in CoS, right. Rowling also said the the Mirror of Erised is also important to the whole story if it is than she will to reintroducing it possibly in Book 6. Who owned the Mirror originally? Again, my speculation - Gryffindor. The Headmaster's office besides portraits possibly has items left to help future headmasters - the sorting hat, Gryffindor's sword, etc. Again, another speculative question - Who owned Fawkes orginally? Phoenixes being constantly reborn by fire every 500 or 1000 years could be extremely old. Fawkes was Godric's phoenix and is now Dumbledore. If Fawkes is Godric phoenix then there were three items related to him in the CoS - his hat(wisdom/counsel), his sword (courage/strength), & Fawkes (healing/hope). Only a true Gryffindor could hold the sword as Harry did. And Fawkes's song gives hope and his tears gives healing when Harry needed it. If the CoS is Salazar's legacy then the Hat, Sword, & Fawkes (and possibly the Mirror of Erised) are Godric's legacy and the lost storyline of CoS. The HBP was the working title for book 2 but according to Rowling all trace of the storyline was removed. Finally, one of the bearers on the British Coat of Arms is a lion and Richard III was the lionhearted. Possibly the wizard with the crown is Gryffindor. Ciao.
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lobelia - Aug 30, 2004 6:38 am (#1550 of 2923)
Slytherin and Lord Voldmort can talk to and control snakes. Why could not Gryffindor talk to lions? Voldemort is described to look like a snake and this guy in the snippet reminds me of a lion. Maybe there is a special skill to speak to lions. Maybe we will see a Gryffindor heir and they will be able to speak to lions (cats).
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
That could be true since we don't actually know who the HBP is, but JKR said that we won't see much of Dudley in the next book. She says, "what you see is what you get...he's just Dudley" (from the JKR site)
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riddikulus - Aug 27, 2004 1:56 pm (#1502 of 2923)
Good point. I was thinking though... it'll be more like a discovery we come to find near the end... to show that Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, because of who the HBP is. Oh, I just don't know.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 2:03 pm (#1503 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I know how you feel. I keep coming up with ideas and then I read other ideas and then I am back to the beginning...
But I do like the idea of Harry being the heir of Griffindor and not having the heir and the HBP being the same person. It would balance the Harry/Voldy, Slytherin/Griffindor good/evil dynamic too.
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wolfgrl - Aug 27, 2004 2:07 pm (#1504 of 2923)
I did actually mean the heir to both as in blood line. I am my mom's heir and my dads heir but their blood lines are separate. It would be possible to be a decendent of two of the founders. And it would be very like JKR to make the title a puzzle in itself.
But on the same note, I doubt JKR would revisit a already hatched out story line (being the heir to somthing). Like I said above it was an odd off the wall thought.
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 2:15 pm (#1505 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I think it was a good thought, I am just confused by the whole heir and descendant thing because I know that it has been discussed in detail somewhere else. Was it that an heir is specifically the first born son, while the descendant could be anyone who is related by blood? Does anyone recall? I don't know maybe I am getting too caught up in semantics...anyhow, I wasn't trying to discredit your thought by any means, I was just trying to make sure I understood it...sorry.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 27, 2004 4:15 pm (#1506 of 2923)
The problem with guessing who the half-blood prince is is the fact that almost all of the major characters in the books who aren't death eaters or muggle-borns are half-blood. From what we have heard there are more half-bloods than pure-bloods. Then we have to take into account the half human characters such as Hagrid and others. If we tried to discuss one half-blood character a week, the book would have come out by the time we finished. (Hey, that sounds like a good idea actually, where do we start?)
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dragon keeper - Aug 27, 2004 4:18 pm (#1507 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
Well, we have got some time to kill before the book comes out...So, more than likely the HBP will be a NEW character, maybe...Are we back to McLaggan yet?
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Madame Librarian - Aug 27, 2004 5:05 pm (#1508 of 2923)
Here's an idea that may be a bit of a repeat or not terribly original (apologies if someone else presented something like it before).
What if JKR is going to tell a story within a story in book 6? Maybe the Prince is an imaginary, fairy tale type character that all but the littlest Witches and Wizards realize is just a myth. A few of the Muggle-borns or Muggle raised kids (like Harry and Hermione) hear the story from their savvy friends one cozy night around the Gryffindor fireplace, everybody chuckles and tells how much they believed in this guy when they were little (kind of like our Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus). Funny thing is, Harry starts getting ideas and hints from...oh, Dobby say...that there is a tiny shred of evidence that this guy did exist. It's an exciting side-story adventure, a wild goose chase that diverts us from the big battles and trials of VWII. Interesting but irrelevant, but just for a little nice O. Henry-type irony, we will always be left wondering if the legend were perhaps true and might have been the big difference in the outcome of the story.
Weird idea, huh?
Ciao. Barb
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hellocello3200 - Aug 27, 2004 5:17 pm (#1509 of 2923)
I'm not suggesting that the HBP is Hagrid, but I think it is possible that Half Blood could refer to half human and half something else. The HBP could also be someone that we have met but don't know there blood status. DD, Lupin, and Moody, to name a few.
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Ozymandias - Aug 27, 2004 6:30 pm (#1510 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
I like the concept, Barb, but I don't really believe it'll happen. All of the book titles so far have been important in the main storyline, even those that, like the GoF, made only brief appearances. So I think the HBP will not be part of the B-plot. Now McClaggan or New-Clue-Guy, on the other hand, certainly have potential.
Oh, and HelloCello, we do know that Lupin is a half-blood. It was never in the books, but JKR gave us that tidbit in a chat. As for half-blood referring to half-human, half-something, those people have been referred to fairly consistently as half-breeds, so I don't think that they would be considered half-bloods. Good thoughts, though, especially Moody. I don't remember his name being brought up so far.
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:08 pm (#1511 of 2923)
Hey i had a thought maybe the HBP is Slyitherin Bc he could have been just like tom riddle.... by that i mean he had a fater who was a mugggle and he also hated muggles.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 27, 2004 7:11 pm (#1512 of 2923)
Well if the book was called the Half-Breed Queen, I'd put my money on Cher.
As for Moody, thats just a character that popped into my head. I wouldn't put it past JKR to make the HBP someone that was not known to be half-blood before.
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:13 pm (#1513 of 2923)
DRagon we Hagrid cant be the HBP bc he has a brither and his brother would also be the HBP.
unless they had different Fathers!!
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Ozymandias - Aug 27, 2004 7:28 pm (#1514 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Conor, they did have different fathers. Hagrid's father was a wizard, making him a half-breed, while Grawp is a full-fledged giant.
Also, I don't mean to be the English Police, but it's a policy of the Forum to try to use proper capitalization, punctuation, etc. This is because many of the members do not speak English as a first language, so we try to make our posts easy for everyone to understand. Thanks, and welcome to the forum!
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:39 pm (#1515 of 2923)
SO Ozymandias what do you think about the half-blood Prince being Slyitherin???
P.S. yOu iCOn is awsome
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Ozymandias - Aug 27, 2004 7:41 pm (#1516 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Personally, I think it's Godric Gryffindor. For it to be Slytherin seems too repetitive of the "I'm a half-blood but I hate everyone who isn't a pureblood" storyline that we have with Voldemort.
PS: Thanks!
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 7:48 pm (#1517 of 2923)
ya i get what your saying
im just trign to think of events that might of happened in the chamber ??
have any idea what harry could of found down there????
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conor maloney - Aug 27, 2004 8:07 pm (#1518 of 2923)
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
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Magical Llama - Aug 28, 2004 4:18 am (#1519 of 2923)
JKR: "There is more to the Sorting Hat than what you have read about in the first three books. Readers will find out what the Sorting Hat becomes as they get into future books." (The Boston Globe, October 1999)
I believe the sorting hat will transform into Gryffindor, or the collective spirit of the four founders, and this will become the half-blood prince. After all, isn't it probable that at least one of the founders was muggle born?
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vball man - Aug 28, 2004 8:25 am (#1520 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
If the sorting hat is Godric, then Ron's statement, "It's got to be a pretty boring life, hasn't it, being a hat?..." is more true than he knew. GG would have spent a lot of time as a hat!
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Her-melanie - Aug 28, 2004 9:27 am (#1521 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I keep wondering how many of Harry's loved ones are going to die in the next 2 books. JK has said she wouldn't want to be Harry because she knows the terrible things in store for him. What could be worse for someone with a big heart than seeing their loved ones die?
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 9:29 am (#1522 of 2923)
How complex is the sorting hat? Is it only cappable of sorting and singing or can you carry on a conversation with it that has nothing to do with the houses. I would like to know how much of a mind is in the hat.
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riddikulus - Aug 28, 2004 9:33 am (#1523 of 2923)
I presented a theory long ago on the thread about the sorting hat being GG. It was shot down. It went something like; if Tom Riddle can save his 16 yr old self in a diary, why can't GG do the same in a hat? After in, different to the books, Harry has a conversation with the hat, in the movie. He is able to speak to it, unlike in the books, where it can just read your thoughts.
Anyway, my theory was shot down, as people were quick to point out that the 4 heads of the houses magic-ed a brain into the hat, in order for it to be able to do what it does.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 9:34 am (#1524 of 2923)
The pattern seems to be that the further into the books we get, the more people die and the closer those people are to Harry. In PS the only good person to die is someone Harry never met. In GoF someone who Harry likes but doesn't know all that well dies. In OotP Harry loses the closest thing he has to a father. It would seem likely that death will occur more frequenty and to those Harry cares about the most. Whether or not JKR will kill off Ron or Hermonie is debatable.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 9:36 am (#1525 of 2923)
Maybe the hat isn't Godric, but it might be someone else, or just a hat with personality.
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Her-melanie - Aug 28, 2004 9:47 am (#1526 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I don't know...a thousand years is a long time for a person to be a hat.
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Warty Harris - Aug 28, 2004 10:12 am (#1527 of 2923)
The Sorting Hat does talk in the books. Only the person wearing the hat can hear them. I do think the Half Blood Prince is Godric Gryffindor.
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Ann - Aug 28, 2004 10:34 am (#1528 of 2923)
It may be significant that the Hat says when Salazar Slytherin left, "He left us quite downhearted"(emphasis mine). So it does sound as if the Hat was either there and considered itself a separate member of the Hogwarts staff at the time, or that it is GG (or the remaining three, somehow). We know it is Gryffindor's hat, but the earlier song said only that he put "some brains in me" (emphasis again mine). It doesn't say where those brains come from.
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Richard !!!Reid - Aug 28, 2004 10:52 am (#1529 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Ann...very clever. I didn't even think about that. Perhaps that year, the song included something about the HBP, or the relationship with GG and SS that could be influential in future events.
Richard
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 28, 2004 1:21 pm (#1530 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I LOVE the new avatar Warty! I am still up in the air as to who or what the HBP is.
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hellocello3200 - Aug 28, 2004 4:05 pm (#1531 of 2923)
Maybe the hat sort of hybernates during the year so time passes more quickly. I think it is also possible that Godric Gryffindor is to the hat as a person is to their portrait. It isn't really the person, but does have there prsonality.
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Magical Llama - Aug 28, 2004 4:31 pm (#1532 of 2923)
Warty Harris wrote: The Sorting Hat does talk in the books. Only the person wearing the hat can hear them.
Yes, this is certainly true, but the sorting hat can sing aloud.
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Warty Harris - Aug 28, 2004 4:36 pm (#1533 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes, I love your new avatar as well.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 28, 2004 4:40 pm (#1534 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Thank you, but I just had to change it, it was giving me the collywobbles. Esp. being anounced in book 2! I still can't get over it. Wonder if he took a page from Binns book? Oh my!, I need a butterbeer.
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Warty Harris - Aug 28, 2004 8:10 pm (#1535 of 2923)
What do you mean by? That it seems as if it is saying something about Dumbledore's future?? Very collywobbles. Yes.
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conor maloney - Aug 28, 2004 8:55 pm (#1536 of 2923)
took a liking to the idea about GG as the HBP but there is one flaw.... who sorted the students in to there houses in the begining
or did SS leave before they had students???
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conor maloney - Aug 28, 2004 9:02 pm (#1537 of 2923)
P.S. and hopefully JK will tell us other things like how lupin got to be a werewolf, why hogwarts was founded, what will become of the giants, ect.
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remiden - Aug 28, 2004 9:40 pm (#1538 of 2923)
OK!!! I HAVE GOT IT!!!!
From all the way back in the first book, when Harry is rescued int he forest, the centaur tells him that the blood of a unicorn will keep someone alive, but it is but a half life. MAybe the HBP is someone that drank unicorn blood...... or maybe not.
Back to the Hagrid issue, Rowling went to lengths in the last book to show that he was a half breed. Not a half blood, but a half breed. She even had Umbridge hate Hagrid because he was a half breed. She would not get repetitive by centering a title about him being a halfblood. It would be...... wrong. (that is the only word I can think of to describe it) It would be very disappointing that she could not think of something better or more original than that. She has tried hard to fool everyone so far, so I would expect the quality of her writing and her surprises to continue. Hagrid is simply a blatantly obvious choice that takes little to come up with. GG is only a little more original than that. If you took a list of the characters already know about, and selected to top five most likely to be the HBP (knowng that Hary and Voldie were out of the running) then Hagrid, Slythering, and Gryffendor would be the top three. And in a small way, it would seem like a lack of effort.
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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 12:09 am (#1539 of 2923)
My original theory of GG being the sorting hat got me thinking. What if it's not the hat at all. Petigrew spent 12 years as a rat. What if someone has spent even more time as, say, a Phoenix? Is there anyone with knowledge on animaguses? Do you know if there are any animals, birds, etc. that are off limits to transform into?
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Magical Llama - Aug 29, 2004 1:22 am (#1540 of 2923)
A phoenix is a magical creature. Thus far, animagus has only applied to animals.
I agree with you about the hat, Riddikulus (see post Magical Llama 8/28/04 4:18am ).
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Star Crossed - Aug 29, 2004 6:36 am (#1541 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Conor,
Because there are people who don't have English as their first language, we ask our members to use captial letters and correct puncuation. If you don't use a capital I at the beginning of a paragaph, it will indent your entire paragraph. Also, if you have another idea to post on the same forum, instead of making a new post, you can click the edit button if it's before thirty minutes is up. Keeps things running quicker.
As for your question about how the students were sorted beforehand, I believe the four founders interviewed the students and chose which ones would fit best in their house.
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riddikulus - Aug 29, 2004 9:11 am (#1542 of 2923)
Llama, Very interesting. "What the sorting hat BECOMES" Of course, that could simple mean... the sorting hat becomes a catalyst between the houses, and eventually brings them all together, through inspirational song... or my off the wall, yet well accepted, but shot down theory, could come to fruition.
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Solitaire - Aug 29, 2004 3:59 pm (#1543 of 2923)
The Hat could become a sort of Oracle, couldn't it? In OotP, Nearly Headless Nick says that, since it lives in Dumbledore's office, it is bound to pick up things. He also tells the kids that "the Hat feels itself honor bound to give the school warning whenever it feels"--and at that point, he was cut off by the commencement of the Sorting Ceremony.
Later, when all have been sorted and the feast has begun, Hermione pursues the issue. Nick says that he has heard the Hat give several warnings before, "always when it detects periods of great danger for the school. And always, of course, its advice is the same: Stand together, be strong from within."
I've always understood its song in GoF to mean that the Sorting Hat was given its brains before Slytherin left, which is why the Hat is so set on unity among the houses, which was the original intent ... wasn't it? If this is indeed so, it makes me wonder what the Hat might have said the morning Salazar Slytherin departed.
Solitaire
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Gerald Costales - Aug 29, 2004 8:05 pm (#1544 of 2923)
New to the forum. I think the HBP is someone we'll see in a flashback. I also think the recent excerpt from the Rowling's website is about the HBP. The HBP is an animagus who changes into a lion (mane, yellow eyes). Don't forget both McGonagall & Skeeter both have spectale markings when they change into a cat & beetle respectively. I also think someone possibly the HBP is the original owner of the Mirror of Erised.
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Gerald Costales - Aug 29, 2004 8:11 pm (#1545 of 2923)
Sorry, I'm off topic but wanted to get some reaction on these ideas. Sorry, if they've been covered this is all new to me.
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Classicsquid592 - Aug 29, 2004 8:40 pm (#1546 of 2923)
A phoenix is a magical creature. Thus far, animagus has only applied to animals.*
We now know that wizards can have phoenix's as patronuses. Up until JKR told us that we had only seen non-magical patronuses (stags, otters, swans, etc.) I think that if a wizard chose to transform into a magical creature as his animagus form, he might transform into a magical beast with no magical powers such as a phoenix that is no more than a red bird the size of a swan. Or a unicorn that is no more than a horse with a single horn. I don't see any limits on the shape of an animagus so far. I had thought I had heard somewhere that a wizard's patronus would match his animagus form (if he had one) but I may have just read it in the form of speculation on this forum. If that were true, than wizards like Rita Skeeter and Peter Pettigrew would be utterly useless at fighting dementors. I don't think that GG or DD are phoenix animaguses, but JKR's announcement has led me to as the question: "Is it possible?".
Magical Llama - Aug 29, 2004 11:18 pm (#1547 of 2923)[/b]
Squid wrote: I had thought I had heard somewhere that a wizard's patronus would match his animagus form (if he had one)
I would love to see a patronus/animagus flober-worm, the perfect magical-creature for Fudge.
Squid wrote: I don't think that GG or DD are phoenix animaguses, but JKR's announcement has led me to as the question: "Is it possible?".
Only an incredibly complex character would be able to change into a phoenix, but anything is possible in HP. Nevile would make a great animagus phoenix, but I can't remember if his patronus had a form in OotP.
If personalities can change over time, I wonder if a patronus, or animagus form, can change also. Any thoughts? Thanks for the post Squid.
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The giant squid - Aug 30, 2004 12:38 am (#1548 of 2923)
I think the patronus/animagus connection is speculative. At least, I don't remember running across anywhere that JKR said as much. Those with more patience and free time than myself, feel free to look into this.
--Mike
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Gerald Costales - Aug 30, 2004 6:23 am (#1549 of 2923)
Of the know patronuses Harry's is a stag (his father as Prongs), Hermonine's - otter (Rowling said one of her favorite animals are otters & Hermonine is most like her when she was younger - a little know it all), Cho's is a swan, & finally Dumbledore's - phoenix. The pattern if any is that your partronus reflects your personality or is something personal to you (Harry - Prongs). WartyHarris said the HBP is Gryffindor. I want to add to that & my first post. There's a reason Gryffindor House's mascot is a lion. If Godric G. was an animagus that changes into a lion, then the lion mascot of his house really makes sense and has an added meaning (Godric is a lion animagus). The mascot for Slytherin is a serpent and Salazar is a parselmouth and could talk to serpents - as Ron pointed out in CoS, right. Rowling also said the the Mirror of Erised is also important to the whole story if it is than she will to reintroducing it possibly in Book 6. Who owned the Mirror originally? Again, my speculation - Gryffindor. The Headmaster's office besides portraits possibly has items left to help future headmasters - the sorting hat, Gryffindor's sword, etc. Again, another speculative question - Who owned Fawkes orginally? Phoenixes being constantly reborn by fire every 500 or 1000 years could be extremely old. Fawkes was Godric's phoenix and is now Dumbledore. If Fawkes is Godric phoenix then there were three items related to him in the CoS - his hat(wisdom/counsel), his sword (courage/strength), & Fawkes (healing/hope). Only a true Gryffindor could hold the sword as Harry did. And Fawkes's song gives hope and his tears gives healing when Harry needed it. If the CoS is Salazar's legacy then the Hat, Sword, & Fawkes (and possibly the Mirror of Erised) are Godric's legacy and the lost storyline of CoS. The HBP was the working title for book 2 but according to Rowling all trace of the storyline was removed. Finally, one of the bearers on the British Coat of Arms is a lion and Richard III was the lionhearted. Possibly the wizard with the crown is Gryffindor. Ciao.
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lobelia - Aug 30, 2004 6:38 am (#1550 of 2923)
Slytherin and Lord Voldmort can talk to and control snakes. Why could not Gryffindor talk to lions? Voldemort is described to look like a snake and this guy in the snippet reminds me of a lion. Maybe there is a special skill to speak to lions. Maybe we will see a Gryffindor heir and they will be able to speak to lions (cats).
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1550 to 1600)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:21 am
Gerald Costales - Aug 30, 2004 7:09 am (#1551 of 2923)
Thx. For the reply to my post lobelia. Now I feel part of the forum. GC
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Siriusly - Aug 30, 2004 7:49 am (#1552 of 2923)
Just a thought: that maybe DD is Griyffindor, that's is why he has all those things. Reborn every so often, they take turns running the school.
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Mafalda Weasley - Aug 30, 2004 9:07 am (#1553 of 2923)
Wow - I cant beleive I only jus found this thread. maybe this has already been mentioned - but on the subject of HBP I wonder what we'll find out about DD's funny 'whirring silver gadgets'do you remember them? i cant figure them out!
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hellocello3200 - Aug 30, 2004 11:12 am (#1554 of 2923)
Maybe there mot magical at all, just like those balancing things or those perpetual motion desk ornaments. I can see DD spending his time pulling the ball back and watching the balls go back an forth.
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riddikulus - Aug 30, 2004 12:05 pm (#1555 of 2923)
I think they all serve some purpose. Sensors to detect dark wizards, cool things like the pensieve, etc.
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Star Crossed - Aug 30, 2004 2:51 pm (#1556 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Going a few posts back...
I think that if a wizard chose to transform into a magical creature as his animagus form
JKR said that wizards don't choose, it reflects their personality.
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Magical Llama - Aug 30, 2004 3:44 pm (#1557 of 2923)
Starcrossed wrote: JKR said that wizards don't choose, it reflects their personality.
Classicsquid wrote: We now know that wizards can have phoenix's as patronuses. Up until JKR told us that we had only seen non-magical patronuses (stags, otters, swans, etc.) I think that if a wizard chose to transform into a magical creature as his animagus form, he might transform into a magical beast with no magical powers ...
Squid is not implying that a witch can freely chose an Animagus form.
Squid is suggesting that a gifted witch can chose if they want to become an animagus based on their Patronus.
For instance ... let's say by some miracle, Fudge, was able to conjure up a patronus that took the form of a flobberworm. Do you think he would put in the time and effort to become a useless magical creature?
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Star Crossed - Aug 30, 2004 3:45 pm (#1558 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ooops, sorry! That's what I get for skimming!
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Phoenix song - Aug 30, 2004 4:14 pm (#1559 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Magical Llama: You had me laughing out loud with the image of Fudge not taking the time to turn into a "useless magical creature" like a flobberworm. Am I right in suggesting that you feel, as I do, that Fudge is ALREADY a "useless magical creature" and thus does not need to transform?
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hellocello3200 - Aug 30, 2004 5:09 pm (#1560 of 2923)
Personally, I think that a flobberworm would be an improvement. he would be quite and couldn't mess things up.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 30, 2004 5:14 pm (#1561 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Actually , I see him as more of a Blast-Ended Skrewt! But then, that's just me. Still totally a politician and totally useless. Colorful character non-the-less.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 30, 2004 10:15 pm (#1562 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
...tis a fine line between canon and movie. We are looking everywhere for clues, connecting the two, such as I have with this portrait that showed up in COS DVD. Yet Dumbledore is alive and well in book five.
Show me the text for the vision and that will help me see what you are saying.
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Magical Llama - Aug 30, 2004 11:53 pm (#1563 of 2923)
Phoenix Song wrote: ... Fudge is ALREADY a "useless magical creature" and thus does not need to transform?
I could not agree more! I am not even certain Fudge can preform magic.
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Springz - Aug 31, 2004 8:13 am (#1564 of 2923)
I think I read in Ms. Rowling's interview at the book festival that the Half -Blood Prince is neither Harry nor Voldermort...
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Joelle - Aug 31, 2004 9:08 am (#1565 of 2923)
About the Patronus/Animagus-- I do not think that your Animagus is your Patronus. I don't think that it was stated anywhere. We know that Animagus' reflect your personality, but Harry wouln't necessarily turn into his Patronus (Prongs) if he ever learns to be an Animagus. Becuase then he would be his father- and I think that this goes against JKR's choices theme.
So while Fudge may be a Flobberworm (if he ever was an Animagus) I don't think that his Patronus would be a Flobberworm as well.
For example when JKR said that she couldn't tell what Snape's Boggart and Patronus looked like it seemed to say that while Boggarts become your greatest fear, your Patronus is something you take great comfort in.
I look forward to the Order of the Phoenix movie with OWL exams so we can see Harry's Patronus again.
Just a clarifying thought
-Joelle
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Doris Crockford - Aug 31, 2004 9:51 am (#1566 of 2923)
Lobelia, in post 1551, suggested that there might be a skill, like being a Parselmouth, that lets someone talk to lions (although I think it might apply to cats in general). That made me think- what if Ginny can talk to cats. JKR said that Ginny will not be a cat animagus(or something like that, I can't find the quote. I think it might be a question someone asked while getting their book signed at the Edinburgh festival), but that the reader who spotted the link between Ginny and cats is perceptive. But even if Ginny can talk to cats/lions, I don't think she's neccessarily Gryffindor's heir.
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Siriusly - Aug 31, 2004 11:44 am (#1567 of 2923)
Isn't a patronous your protector and your animugus you. Big difference.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 31, 2004 1:08 pm (#1568 of 2923)
If your patronus is a source of comfort, do you think Harry's would have changed temporarily when he was disenchanted with his father? I vaguely remember a comment about how his father used to be a source of pride but wasn't after the pensieve incident. I'm sure this is terribly off topic. Apologies.
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The One - Aug 31, 2004 1:39 pm (#1569 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
LLL
If your patronus is a source of comfort, do you think Harry's would have changed temporarily when he was disenchanted with his father?
I have been thinking along the same lines. But I have been wondering if the patronus gets weaker or more difficult to conjure. Dumbledore explains the stag patronus by Harry having “found James inside himself.” What will happen if Harry now is less willing to accept help from his father?
PS. Any new thoughts on this should probably go to the Harry Potter discussion.
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Steve Newton - Sep 1, 2004 7:36 am (#1570 of 2923)
Librarian
I am rereading GOF and the kids just left for school. I realized that they always leave from King's Cross Station. With all of the talk of princes I just wonder if the King in the name is important. Crosses also seem to recur.
There are many train stations in the UK and JKR picked this name out of all of them. She must have had a reason.
OK, Paddington Station was taken. One less to choose from.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 1, 2004 7:45 am (#1571 of 2923)
All the talk of patronuses, etc. is interesting, but let's get back to speculation on the HBP.
I've posted why I think Godric Gryffindor is the HBP (see posts #1545 & 1550). The other possible major canidates are -
1. Hagrid Half wizard and giant
2. Remus Lupin recently revealed by JKR
3. Dean Thomas recently revealed by JKR
I don't think Hagrid can be ruled out entirely. His mother was married to the King of the Giants. The rules of title could possibly make him the HBP. Giant rules of royality could also be different than the norm.
What do we really know about Lupin? If, someone wanted to prevent him from becoming a King of some unknown land or Prince of a Principality (like Monaco); why not sic a werewolf on him. (Unless you wanted him to be Prince of the Werewolves.) Being a werewolf has kept Lupin from gain full employment, why not kingship.
What do we know of Dean Thomas father? It certainly more important who Dean's father is specially if Dean's a possible HBP.
And of course there's any other previous old characters that could fit the HBP or a new a new character that is the HBP. Ciao GC
PS HBP could be a sarcastic title remember - Weasley is our King.
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Star Crossed - Sep 1, 2004 12:33 pm (#1572 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Hagrid can be ruled out entirely. His mother was married to the King of the Giants. The rules of title could possibly make him the HBP. Giant rules of royality could also be different than the norm.
Hagrid's mother was married to the Gurg?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 1, 2004 12:43 pm (#1573 of 2923)
If Gurg was King and did't have an heir then who would become King? Also, how do we know that Hagrid's mother wasn't Giant Royality. If Hagrid's mom was a Princess then Hagrid could be a Prince. GC
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Star Crossed - Sep 1, 2004 12:51 pm (#1574 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The person who killed him would become king, not his son. Our laws are different from their's.
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Steve Newton - Sep 1, 2004 12:58 pm (#1575 of 2923)
Librarian
Well, we know that the giants now have a gurg as leader. That does not mean that it was that way 50 or so years ago when Hagrid was a kid. The giants are now much reduced and are forced to live close together.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 1, 2004 1:21 pm (#1576 of 2923)
Then why would it be of importance now that he is a "prince of the giants?" Their laws (I suppose you could call them laws) don't seem to be changing away from the Gurg being the ruler. Does anyone have a theory as to why this would suddenly be important enough to be the title? I would be delighted to hear it.
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Chris. - Sep 1, 2004 1:25 pm (#1577 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think Hagrid will become Gurg, as the biggest Giant, according to Hagrid, gets the title.
It is possible that Hagrid's mother, Fridwulfa, was a Gurg-ess. That would make Hagrid a Prince-like figure. He is a Half-blood, and Da-dah! You guessed it.
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Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 2:19 pm (#1578 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I think that in trying to decipher who the HBP may be, that it's important to first try to decide what the HBP means to the storyline. In my college English class, my professor impressed upon me that good authors (like JKR!) do not place things in their stories that have no meaning or importance. He advised that when you come to something new in literature, that you question not what it is as much as you question WHY it is where it is and WHAT is it's function. Most of the people on the forum obviously perform this examination or else they would not be picking up on all of the clues that seem to most readers to just be "fillers" and "throw away" information.
I am more concerned with trying to figure out what the HBP is going to bring to the story than in trying to decide this person's identity. (When dealing with an imagination like JKR's, I think that this line of inquiry will be more effective.)
Before everyone jumps upon me with both feet, please remember that the following is just MY feeling about the role in which I think that the HBP will play. I think that this person will either be an addition to the forces against evil, or that he will offer great insight into Voldemort's history. I can't see adding a half-blood prince just for the sake of having royalty in the story. He must have a role to play.
It's for this reason that I don't see Hagrid as being the HBP. I don't see that he or his role in the Order would change with the knowledge that he is the HBP. Hagrid is a fully 3-dimensional character, and I don't think that he needs a title to be more integral to the story. We also know that he is fiercely loyal to Dumbledore and to the defeat of Voldemort. Any knowledge about his past couldn't make him any more dedicated. We also know that he is "no great shakes at magic" by his own admission. I don't think that he would be able to gain any additional powers just by finding out that he was the HBP.
I'm not denying that Hagrid is important to the stories and that he will continue to contribute greatly to the eventual outcome. I just don't see Hagrid fulfilling a deeper role by being named the HBP.
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 1, 2004 2:47 pm (#1579 of 2923)
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I quite agree Phoenix Song. I to think Hagrid is not only simply too obvious and I agree that Hagrid's character needs no more complexity and titles.
I also like your way of thinking - what the HBP will do to the story. This is partly because I don't think we have met him yet, so I think it is near impossible to start guessing who he is. I also think he is a memory, but not necessarily Voldemort's.
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Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 2:56 pm (#1580 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Thanks, Richard Reid. I also think that the HBP is somebody new, so why waste time trying to pull it out of JKR's imagination? I'd rather try to figure out what he'll do to the direction of the story. It seems that we often think alike. I'm always agreeing with your posts! Great minds think alike, huh?
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 1, 2004 3:10 pm (#1581 of 2923)
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Thanks. I wouldn't exactly call my mind great, but I'm glad someone else is also on the same thinking path as me. Hopefully means I'm not completely off track, and yes, in my opinion, we are wasting time plucking out names, of people who don't exist yet.
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conor maloney - Sep 1, 2004 5:49 pm (#1582 of 2923)
me and my sister were sitting down and a diner and talking about the HBP and what we think might be in it . then i mentoned that he might be the new DADA teacher but she replied no i think Snape will be the new DADA teacher ( because of the hard role to gte filled by the reputation of the job) and the new teacher will be a potions teacher.
sorry but back to the Animagus thing. DD said that u can choose what animal u want want to turn in to in the 3rd book when he was telling him about how the merarders had to turn into animals that couls control lupin. or was that sirius???
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 1, 2004 6:38 pm (#1583 of 2923)
Using Richard Reid's thoughts as a guide, I think the HBP will be someone to unite people against the pure-blood prejudice. This will, in effect, be someone who fights Voldemort. Remember that Voldy is the heir of Slytherin. Maybe the Leonine character JKR identifies on the official web site is this character.
I feel like I'm being repetitious, but I really think that the pure-blood and half-blood story line is what was extracted from the CoS. It probably leads into a discovery of how to fight Voldemort.
Betegeuse
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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 6:40 pm (#1584 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
OK I'm not sure where exactly where to put this maybe you all can help me. I was reading a few posts back about the beginning of OoP when Harry had the dream about LV. This is what came to mind. What if LV by killing his father GAINED some sort of protection/ immortality. In the chapter it talks about how the whole family was dead Mr. & Mrs. Riddle ( his father, step-mother) and son (which I can only assume is LV half brother). I don't think that JKR would just add this information with out reason. Maybe she was showing us a clue. Please let me know what you lot think please I'm going crazy over here thinking about it. Sorry if it's a little off topic.
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Star Crossed - Sep 1, 2004 6:59 pm (#1585 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lady Black99, Mr. and Mrs. Riddle and their son would be Voldie's grandparents and his father.
That made me scratch my head for a while until I finally asked.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 1, 2004 7:02 pm (#1586 of 2923)
I think you could be on to something Lady Black. It would follow the same principle that save Harry. His mother's life save his. LV might be able to do the same. The only difference is the way the life was taken. freely vs. by force
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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 7:14 pm (#1587 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Thanks Star Crossed that would have never crossed my mind.
Hellocello600 Please elaborate. I think were thinking along the same lines but my brain is tired. I would like to hear your point of view.
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Mary Pearl - Sep 1, 2004 7:24 pm (#1588 of 2923)
Hello everyone! Since this is where we chat, I wanted to start a topic about the 6th book and what we all thought might be inclosed. Maybe there was something about this already on this site...if so, I apologize. Anyway, sources have confirmed the title as Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Who could that be? We know that Voldemort is Half-Blood, and I guess he could be a prince, but we already know that he has to deal with him. Harry isn't really half-blood, but he really isn't whole-blood either, so he probably isn't it. Anyway, one of the many thoughts that has been plaguing my mind. Also, Neville seems to be doing more with Harry lately--could the prophesy somehow have to do with him? Like is he going to die along with Voldemort, or is Harry going to be the one to die? Is it just me, or is something going on between Ron and Hermione? I am totally looking forward to something happening with that (what can I say, I am a hopeless romantic). And Harry has to find a girl! I mean, he will be 16! He has got to at least be thinking about someone...maybe not Cho because she is not being so great with him. Ok, I think that is enough for this message. Anyone have any other ideas?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 1, 2004 9:31 pm (#1589 of 2923)
If you want to speculate about future pairings, I agree that Ron and Hermione are a strong possibility (remember the hand touching scene in the 3rd Movie). That leaves Harry with Ginny - Ginny is turning into a strong person. It would also provide Harry with a strong and supportive family. Molly already thinks of Harry as a son. When family was allowed to be present during the last task of the Triwizard Tournament, it was Molly and Bill Weasley that replaced the Dursley’s. Neville and Luna also seem a likely pairing.
I'm not sure where I read it, but I think JKR has confirmed that Harry an Cho are no longer an item.
I've read JKR say that the Mirror of Ersied is also important to the central plot. My spectulation is that the HBP owned the Mirror originally. The Mirror and the HBP importance will be revealed in a flashback at the beginning of Book 6. My guess is still Godric Gryffindor.
I don't take the Prince title too seriously. I could imagine Slytherin sealing the Chamber of Secrets and yelling, "Godric you Half-Blood Prince your love of Mudbloods will destroy Hogwarts!"
Ciao GC (I really have enjoyed reading these recent posts.)
Happy first day of school Hogwarts.
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siliconsmiley - Sep 2, 2004 12:05 pm (#1590 of 2923)
I have to agree with Pheonix and Richard about the role of the Half-Blood Prince, regardless of who this person turns out to be.
I do not think that the HBP will be a modern character. I think at this point in the story, the major player's roles are already well defined.
I have been persuaded to believe that the HBP will be an historical figure whose story is introduced (how is not really important) that will shed more light on the falling out between GG and SS and the origins of the pure-blood, wizard supremacy philosophy.
Harry after all has grown up without this prejudice. This is a major theme of the series that has been building since the very beginning. We are coming to the end of the series and I expect that the final bits of history will be revealed in HBP to lead up to the ultimate climactic adventure of the final book.
As many have argued, we have found some of the history of SS in the second book. It seems to make sense to me that we would learn the other half (or 3/4ths of the story) in the second to last book.
Symmetry. I can't help it, I'm an engineer.
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Saud - Sep 2, 2004 5:43 pm (#1591 of 2923)
Or Nicolas Flamel.
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conor maloney - Sep 2, 2004 6:29 pm (#1592 of 2923)
SO DOES ANY ONE WANNA WRITE ME BACK OR JUST PRETEND LIKE I NEVER WROTE ANYTHING AT ALL
me and my sister were sitting down and a diner and talking about the HBP and what we think might be in it . then i mentoned that he might be the new DADA teacher but she replied no i think Snape will be the new DADA teacher ( because of the hard role to gte filled by the reputation of the job) and the new teacher will be a potions teacher.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 2, 2004 6:38 pm (#1593 of 2923)
Conor, I think J.K. Rowling said in an interview that being the DADA teacher would bring out the worst in Snape. So I do not think he will be the DADA teacher. Although, the Half-Blood Prince could be the new DADA teacher.
Cheers, Nathan
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conor maloney - Sep 2, 2004 6:41 pm (#1594 of 2923)
thx for writing back
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Star Crossed - Sep 2, 2004 7:09 pm (#1595 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Conor, I believe I have mentioned it before, but if it not, I'll say it now. Due to people reading this forum from other countries, where English is not their first language, we try to use capitalization and correct grammar here. We also try to avoid chat speak.
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Siriusly - Sep 2, 2004 9:30 pm (#1596 of 2923)
Conor - that sure is an interesting email address.
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 3, 2004 2:25 pm (#1597 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
Ooo...I like that...I like that a lot Zhigulii Longbottom. Take ten points. Lets take a step further...perhaps he was the peacekeeper, or someone they were fighting over...perhaps GG and SS wanted the HBP on their side?
Richard
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 3, 2004 2:57 pm (#1598 of 2923)
siliconsmiley,
I agree with your post about how the HBP will be historical and shed light on the prejudice issue. It would be interesting to see if the HBP will impact the house elf enslavement issue.
I guess it's true that engineers think alike. I'm an engineer too and I deal with silicon all day.
TTFN, Betelgeuse
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hellocello3200 - Sep 3, 2004 7:02 pm (#1599 of 2923)
Lady Black, I'm not sure if I can elaborate much more because it is just a hazy theory. It just seems that if some type of ancient magic could be used by Lily to save Harry's life by sacrificing her own then the same principle would allow for LV to become immortal by taking his father's life. The thing with the bone points to that as well. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that I recall DD saying somewhere that LV didn't respect that kind of magic, which leads me to belive that he didn't know much about it. I hope we learn more about that kind of magic in the sixth book.
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Siriusly - Sep 3, 2004 7:09 pm (#1600 of 2923)
Doesn't Volde also say that he will take back his mortal body and his old powers. Seems muggle bone would lead to mortal body. Poor man, took the easy way as opposed to the right way. Left himself wide open.
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Thx. For the reply to my post lobelia. Now I feel part of the forum. GC
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Siriusly - Aug 30, 2004 7:49 am (#1552 of 2923)
Just a thought: that maybe DD is Griyffindor, that's is why he has all those things. Reborn every so often, they take turns running the school.
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Mafalda Weasley - Aug 30, 2004 9:07 am (#1553 of 2923)
Wow - I cant beleive I only jus found this thread. maybe this has already been mentioned - but on the subject of HBP I wonder what we'll find out about DD's funny 'whirring silver gadgets'do you remember them? i cant figure them out!
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hellocello3200 - Aug 30, 2004 11:12 am (#1554 of 2923)
Maybe there mot magical at all, just like those balancing things or those perpetual motion desk ornaments. I can see DD spending his time pulling the ball back and watching the balls go back an forth.
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riddikulus - Aug 30, 2004 12:05 pm (#1555 of 2923)
I think they all serve some purpose. Sensors to detect dark wizards, cool things like the pensieve, etc.
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Star Crossed - Aug 30, 2004 2:51 pm (#1556 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Going a few posts back...
I think that if a wizard chose to transform into a magical creature as his animagus form
JKR said that wizards don't choose, it reflects their personality.
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Magical Llama - Aug 30, 2004 3:44 pm (#1557 of 2923)
Starcrossed wrote: JKR said that wizards don't choose, it reflects their personality.
Classicsquid wrote: We now know that wizards can have phoenix's as patronuses. Up until JKR told us that we had only seen non-magical patronuses (stags, otters, swans, etc.) I think that if a wizard chose to transform into a magical creature as his animagus form, he might transform into a magical beast with no magical powers ...
Squid is not implying that a witch can freely chose an Animagus form.
Squid is suggesting that a gifted witch can chose if they want to become an animagus based on their Patronus.
For instance ... let's say by some miracle, Fudge, was able to conjure up a patronus that took the form of a flobberworm. Do you think he would put in the time and effort to become a useless magical creature?
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Star Crossed - Aug 30, 2004 3:45 pm (#1558 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ooops, sorry! That's what I get for skimming!
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Phoenix song - Aug 30, 2004 4:14 pm (#1559 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Magical Llama: You had me laughing out loud with the image of Fudge not taking the time to turn into a "useless magical creature" like a flobberworm. Am I right in suggesting that you feel, as I do, that Fudge is ALREADY a "useless magical creature" and thus does not need to transform?
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hellocello3200 - Aug 30, 2004 5:09 pm (#1560 of 2923)
Personally, I think that a flobberworm would be an improvement. he would be quite and couldn't mess things up.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 30, 2004 5:14 pm (#1561 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Actually , I see him as more of a Blast-Ended Skrewt! But then, that's just me. Still totally a politician and totally useless. Colorful character non-the-less.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Aug 30, 2004 10:15 pm (#1562 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
...tis a fine line between canon and movie. We are looking everywhere for clues, connecting the two, such as I have with this portrait that showed up in COS DVD. Yet Dumbledore is alive and well in book five.
Show me the text for the vision and that will help me see what you are saying.
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Magical Llama - Aug 30, 2004 11:53 pm (#1563 of 2923)
Phoenix Song wrote: ... Fudge is ALREADY a "useless magical creature" and thus does not need to transform?
I could not agree more! I am not even certain Fudge can preform magic.
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Springz - Aug 31, 2004 8:13 am (#1564 of 2923)
I think I read in Ms. Rowling's interview at the book festival that the Half -Blood Prince is neither Harry nor Voldermort...
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Joelle - Aug 31, 2004 9:08 am (#1565 of 2923)
About the Patronus/Animagus-- I do not think that your Animagus is your Patronus. I don't think that it was stated anywhere. We know that Animagus' reflect your personality, but Harry wouln't necessarily turn into his Patronus (Prongs) if he ever learns to be an Animagus. Becuase then he would be his father- and I think that this goes against JKR's choices theme.
So while Fudge may be a Flobberworm (if he ever was an Animagus) I don't think that his Patronus would be a Flobberworm as well.
For example when JKR said that she couldn't tell what Snape's Boggart and Patronus looked like it seemed to say that while Boggarts become your greatest fear, your Patronus is something you take great comfort in.
I look forward to the Order of the Phoenix movie with OWL exams so we can see Harry's Patronus again.
Just a clarifying thought
-Joelle
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Doris Crockford - Aug 31, 2004 9:51 am (#1566 of 2923)
Lobelia, in post 1551, suggested that there might be a skill, like being a Parselmouth, that lets someone talk to lions (although I think it might apply to cats in general). That made me think- what if Ginny can talk to cats. JKR said that Ginny will not be a cat animagus(or something like that, I can't find the quote. I think it might be a question someone asked while getting their book signed at the Edinburgh festival), but that the reader who spotted the link between Ginny and cats is perceptive. But even if Ginny can talk to cats/lions, I don't think she's neccessarily Gryffindor's heir.
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Siriusly - Aug 31, 2004 11:44 am (#1567 of 2923)
Isn't a patronous your protector and your animugus you. Big difference.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Aug 31, 2004 1:08 pm (#1568 of 2923)
If your patronus is a source of comfort, do you think Harry's would have changed temporarily when he was disenchanted with his father? I vaguely remember a comment about how his father used to be a source of pride but wasn't after the pensieve incident. I'm sure this is terribly off topic. Apologies.
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The One - Aug 31, 2004 1:39 pm (#1569 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
LLL
If your patronus is a source of comfort, do you think Harry's would have changed temporarily when he was disenchanted with his father?
I have been thinking along the same lines. But I have been wondering if the patronus gets weaker or more difficult to conjure. Dumbledore explains the stag patronus by Harry having “found James inside himself.” What will happen if Harry now is less willing to accept help from his father?
PS. Any new thoughts on this should probably go to the Harry Potter discussion.
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Steve Newton - Sep 1, 2004 7:36 am (#1570 of 2923)
Librarian
I am rereading GOF and the kids just left for school. I realized that they always leave from King's Cross Station. With all of the talk of princes I just wonder if the King in the name is important. Crosses also seem to recur.
There are many train stations in the UK and JKR picked this name out of all of them. She must have had a reason.
OK, Paddington Station was taken. One less to choose from.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 1, 2004 7:45 am (#1571 of 2923)
All the talk of patronuses, etc. is interesting, but let's get back to speculation on the HBP.
I've posted why I think Godric Gryffindor is the HBP (see posts #1545 & 1550). The other possible major canidates are -
1. Hagrid Half wizard and giant
2. Remus Lupin recently revealed by JKR
3. Dean Thomas recently revealed by JKR
I don't think Hagrid can be ruled out entirely. His mother was married to the King of the Giants. The rules of title could possibly make him the HBP. Giant rules of royality could also be different than the norm.
What do we really know about Lupin? If, someone wanted to prevent him from becoming a King of some unknown land or Prince of a Principality (like Monaco); why not sic a werewolf on him. (Unless you wanted him to be Prince of the Werewolves.) Being a werewolf has kept Lupin from gain full employment, why not kingship.
What do we know of Dean Thomas father? It certainly more important who Dean's father is specially if Dean's a possible HBP.
And of course there's any other previous old characters that could fit the HBP or a new a new character that is the HBP. Ciao GC
PS HBP could be a sarcastic title remember - Weasley is our King.
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Star Crossed - Sep 1, 2004 12:33 pm (#1572 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Hagrid can be ruled out entirely. His mother was married to the King of the Giants. The rules of title could possibly make him the HBP. Giant rules of royality could also be different than the norm.
Hagrid's mother was married to the Gurg?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 1, 2004 12:43 pm (#1573 of 2923)
If Gurg was King and did't have an heir then who would become King? Also, how do we know that Hagrid's mother wasn't Giant Royality. If Hagrid's mom was a Princess then Hagrid could be a Prince. GC
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Star Crossed - Sep 1, 2004 12:51 pm (#1574 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The person who killed him would become king, not his son. Our laws are different from their's.
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Steve Newton - Sep 1, 2004 12:58 pm (#1575 of 2923)
Librarian
Well, we know that the giants now have a gurg as leader. That does not mean that it was that way 50 or so years ago when Hagrid was a kid. The giants are now much reduced and are forced to live close together.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 1, 2004 1:21 pm (#1576 of 2923)
Then why would it be of importance now that he is a "prince of the giants?" Their laws (I suppose you could call them laws) don't seem to be changing away from the Gurg being the ruler. Does anyone have a theory as to why this would suddenly be important enough to be the title? I would be delighted to hear it.
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Chris. - Sep 1, 2004 1:25 pm (#1577 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I don't think Hagrid will become Gurg, as the biggest Giant, according to Hagrid, gets the title.
It is possible that Hagrid's mother, Fridwulfa, was a Gurg-ess. That would make Hagrid a Prince-like figure. He is a Half-blood, and Da-dah! You guessed it.
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Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 2:19 pm (#1578 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I think that in trying to decipher who the HBP may be, that it's important to first try to decide what the HBP means to the storyline. In my college English class, my professor impressed upon me that good authors (like JKR!) do not place things in their stories that have no meaning or importance. He advised that when you come to something new in literature, that you question not what it is as much as you question WHY it is where it is and WHAT is it's function. Most of the people on the forum obviously perform this examination or else they would not be picking up on all of the clues that seem to most readers to just be "fillers" and "throw away" information.
I am more concerned with trying to figure out what the HBP is going to bring to the story than in trying to decide this person's identity. (When dealing with an imagination like JKR's, I think that this line of inquiry will be more effective.)
Before everyone jumps upon me with both feet, please remember that the following is just MY feeling about the role in which I think that the HBP will play. I think that this person will either be an addition to the forces against evil, or that he will offer great insight into Voldemort's history. I can't see adding a half-blood prince just for the sake of having royalty in the story. He must have a role to play.
It's for this reason that I don't see Hagrid as being the HBP. I don't see that he or his role in the Order would change with the knowledge that he is the HBP. Hagrid is a fully 3-dimensional character, and I don't think that he needs a title to be more integral to the story. We also know that he is fiercely loyal to Dumbledore and to the defeat of Voldemort. Any knowledge about his past couldn't make him any more dedicated. We also know that he is "no great shakes at magic" by his own admission. I don't think that he would be able to gain any additional powers just by finding out that he was the HBP.
I'm not denying that Hagrid is important to the stories and that he will continue to contribute greatly to the eventual outcome. I just don't see Hagrid fulfilling a deeper role by being named the HBP.
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 1, 2004 2:47 pm (#1579 of 2923)
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I quite agree Phoenix Song. I to think Hagrid is not only simply too obvious and I agree that Hagrid's character needs no more complexity and titles.
I also like your way of thinking - what the HBP will do to the story. This is partly because I don't think we have met him yet, so I think it is near impossible to start guessing who he is. I also think he is a memory, but not necessarily Voldemort's.
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Phoenix song - Sep 1, 2004 2:56 pm (#1580 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Thanks, Richard Reid. I also think that the HBP is somebody new, so why waste time trying to pull it out of JKR's imagination? I'd rather try to figure out what he'll do to the direction of the story. It seems that we often think alike. I'm always agreeing with your posts! Great minds think alike, huh?
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 1, 2004 3:10 pm (#1581 of 2923)
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Thanks. I wouldn't exactly call my mind great, but I'm glad someone else is also on the same thinking path as me. Hopefully means I'm not completely off track, and yes, in my opinion, we are wasting time plucking out names, of people who don't exist yet.
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conor maloney - Sep 1, 2004 5:49 pm (#1582 of 2923)
me and my sister were sitting down and a diner and talking about the HBP and what we think might be in it . then i mentoned that he might be the new DADA teacher but she replied no i think Snape will be the new DADA teacher ( because of the hard role to gte filled by the reputation of the job) and the new teacher will be a potions teacher.
sorry but back to the Animagus thing. DD said that u can choose what animal u want want to turn in to in the 3rd book when he was telling him about how the merarders had to turn into animals that couls control lupin. or was that sirius???
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 1, 2004 6:38 pm (#1583 of 2923)
Using Richard Reid's thoughts as a guide, I think the HBP will be someone to unite people against the pure-blood prejudice. This will, in effect, be someone who fights Voldemort. Remember that Voldy is the heir of Slytherin. Maybe the Leonine character JKR identifies on the official web site is this character.
I feel like I'm being repetitious, but I really think that the pure-blood and half-blood story line is what was extracted from the CoS. It probably leads into a discovery of how to fight Voldemort.
Betegeuse
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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 6:40 pm (#1584 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
OK I'm not sure where exactly where to put this maybe you all can help me. I was reading a few posts back about the beginning of OoP when Harry had the dream about LV. This is what came to mind. What if LV by killing his father GAINED some sort of protection/ immortality. In the chapter it talks about how the whole family was dead Mr. & Mrs. Riddle ( his father, step-mother) and son (which I can only assume is LV half brother). I don't think that JKR would just add this information with out reason. Maybe she was showing us a clue. Please let me know what you lot think please I'm going crazy over here thinking about it. Sorry if it's a little off topic.
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Star Crossed - Sep 1, 2004 6:59 pm (#1585 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Lady Black99, Mr. and Mrs. Riddle and their son would be Voldie's grandparents and his father.
That made me scratch my head for a while until I finally asked. - - - - - - - - - -
hellocello3200 - Sep 1, 2004 7:02 pm (#1586 of 2923)
I think you could be on to something Lady Black. It would follow the same principle that save Harry. His mother's life save his. LV might be able to do the same. The only difference is the way the life was taken. freely vs. by force
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Lady Black99 - Sep 1, 2004 7:14 pm (#1587 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
Thanks Star Crossed that would have never crossed my mind.
Hellocello600 Please elaborate. I think were thinking along the same lines but my brain is tired. I would like to hear your point of view.
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Mary Pearl - Sep 1, 2004 7:24 pm (#1588 of 2923)
Hello everyone! Since this is where we chat, I wanted to start a topic about the 6th book and what we all thought might be inclosed. Maybe there was something about this already on this site...if so, I apologize. Anyway, sources have confirmed the title as Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Who could that be? We know that Voldemort is Half-Blood, and I guess he could be a prince, but we already know that he has to deal with him. Harry isn't really half-blood, but he really isn't whole-blood either, so he probably isn't it. Anyway, one of the many thoughts that has been plaguing my mind. Also, Neville seems to be doing more with Harry lately--could the prophesy somehow have to do with him? Like is he going to die along with Voldemort, or is Harry going to be the one to die? Is it just me, or is something going on between Ron and Hermione? I am totally looking forward to something happening with that (what can I say, I am a hopeless romantic). And Harry has to find a girl! I mean, he will be 16! He has got to at least be thinking about someone...maybe not Cho because she is not being so great with him. Ok, I think that is enough for this message. Anyone have any other ideas?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 1, 2004 9:31 pm (#1589 of 2923)
If you want to speculate about future pairings, I agree that Ron and Hermione are a strong possibility (remember the hand touching scene in the 3rd Movie). That leaves Harry with Ginny - Ginny is turning into a strong person. It would also provide Harry with a strong and supportive family. Molly already thinks of Harry as a son. When family was allowed to be present during the last task of the Triwizard Tournament, it was Molly and Bill Weasley that replaced the Dursley’s. Neville and Luna also seem a likely pairing.
I'm not sure where I read it, but I think JKR has confirmed that Harry an Cho are no longer an item.
I've read JKR say that the Mirror of Ersied is also important to the central plot. My spectulation is that the HBP owned the Mirror originally. The Mirror and the HBP importance will be revealed in a flashback at the beginning of Book 6. My guess is still Godric Gryffindor.
I don't take the Prince title too seriously. I could imagine Slytherin sealing the Chamber of Secrets and yelling, "Godric you Half-Blood Prince your love of Mudbloods will destroy Hogwarts!"
Ciao GC (I really have enjoyed reading these recent posts.)
Happy first day of school Hogwarts.
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siliconsmiley - Sep 2, 2004 12:05 pm (#1590 of 2923)
I have to agree with Pheonix and Richard about the role of the Half-Blood Prince, regardless of who this person turns out to be.
I do not think that the HBP will be a modern character. I think at this point in the story, the major player's roles are already well defined.
I have been persuaded to believe that the HBP will be an historical figure whose story is introduced (how is not really important) that will shed more light on the falling out between GG and SS and the origins of the pure-blood, wizard supremacy philosophy.
Harry after all has grown up without this prejudice. This is a major theme of the series that has been building since the very beginning. We are coming to the end of the series and I expect that the final bits of history will be revealed in HBP to lead up to the ultimate climactic adventure of the final book.
As many have argued, we have found some of the history of SS in the second book. It seems to make sense to me that we would learn the other half (or 3/4ths of the story) in the second to last book.
Symmetry. I can't help it, I'm an engineer.
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Saud - Sep 2, 2004 5:43 pm (#1591 of 2923)
Or Nicolas Flamel.
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conor maloney - Sep 2, 2004 6:29 pm (#1592 of 2923)
SO DOES ANY ONE WANNA WRITE ME BACK OR JUST PRETEND LIKE I NEVER WROTE ANYTHING AT ALL
me and my sister were sitting down and a diner and talking about the HBP and what we think might be in it . then i mentoned that he might be the new DADA teacher but she replied no i think Snape will be the new DADA teacher ( because of the hard role to gte filled by the reputation of the job) and the new teacher will be a potions teacher.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 2, 2004 6:38 pm (#1593 of 2923)
Conor, I think J.K. Rowling said in an interview that being the DADA teacher would bring out the worst in Snape. So I do not think he will be the DADA teacher. Although, the Half-Blood Prince could be the new DADA teacher.
Cheers, Nathan
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conor maloney - Sep 2, 2004 6:41 pm (#1594 of 2923)
thx for writing back
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Star Crossed - Sep 2, 2004 7:09 pm (#1595 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Conor, I believe I have mentioned it before, but if it not, I'll say it now. Due to people reading this forum from other countries, where English is not their first language, we try to use capitalization and correct grammar here. We also try to avoid chat speak.
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Siriusly - Sep 2, 2004 9:30 pm (#1596 of 2923)
Conor - that sure is an interesting email address.
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 3, 2004 2:25 pm (#1597 of 2923)
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Ooo...I like that...I like that a lot Zhigulii Longbottom. Take ten points. Lets take a step further...perhaps he was the peacekeeper, or someone they were fighting over...perhaps GG and SS wanted the HBP on their side?
Richard
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 3, 2004 2:57 pm (#1598 of 2923)
siliconsmiley,
I agree with your post about how the HBP will be historical and shed light on the prejudice issue. It would be interesting to see if the HBP will impact the house elf enslavement issue.
I guess it's true that engineers think alike. I'm an engineer too and I deal with silicon all day.
TTFN, Betelgeuse
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hellocello3200 - Sep 3, 2004 7:02 pm (#1599 of 2923)
Lady Black, I'm not sure if I can elaborate much more because it is just a hazy theory. It just seems that if some type of ancient magic could be used by Lily to save Harry's life by sacrificing her own then the same principle would allow for LV to become immortal by taking his father's life. The thing with the bone points to that as well. The only thing that doesn't make sense is that I recall DD saying somewhere that LV didn't respect that kind of magic, which leads me to belive that he didn't know much about it. I hope we learn more about that kind of magic in the sixth book.
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Siriusly - Sep 3, 2004 7:09 pm (#1600 of 2923)
Doesn't Volde also say that he will take back his mortal body and his old powers. Seems muggle bone would lead to mortal body. Poor man, took the easy way as opposed to the right way. Left himself wide open.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1600 to 1650)
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hellocello3200 - Sep 3, 2004 7:21 pm (#1601 of 2923)
I know I'm just grasping at straws here Siriusly. The old life for a life just seems logical. I really got the idea from lady blacks post and something from a book I read along time ago. (The Lost Years of Merlin series, a pretty good bunch of books.) In it Merlin's father promises to kill his son to save his life or his wife's life or both, because they had broken a ancient law or something like that.(it's been along time since I read it.) I guess thats not even close to canon, but that's where I'm coming from.
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Lady Black99 - Sep 3, 2004 7:26 pm (#1602 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
hellocello600 I don't believe that LV used the ancient magic that Lily used for Harry I think it is some sort of Black/ Dark magic we are not aware of.
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Siriusly - Sep 3, 2004 7:27 pm (#1603 of 2923)
Sounds as good as anything any of us have come up with. We are all just grasping at straws till Jo gives us the answers.
Lead on McDuff.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 12:11 pm (#1604 of 2923)
The Lion, Dark Wizard and Mirror or Gryffindor, Grindelwald and the Mirror of Erised
Q. In your first book there is secret message on the Mirror of Erised. Are there other secret messages throughout the book that we should be watching for?
J.K. Not secret messages of that type, but if you read carefully you’ll get hints about what’s coming. And that’s all I’m saying! (October 16, 2000, Scholastic.com chat)
Grindelwald is only mentioned once on the back of a Chocolate Frog card. But, I think some of us suspect that there is a greater or hidden importance to him. When Harry was trapped in the Chamber of Secrets, who would have expected that the Sorting Hat would produce Gryffindor’s sword to help Harry defeat the Basilisk. Or in the graveyard surrounded by Death Eaters, who would have expected that because Harry and Voldermort own brother wands; Harry would be saved from certain death. It is these small details that keep us wondering if some other small detail, like the mention of Grindelwald on a card, is a possible clue to future events in the story.
The current train of thought is that there is a Tom Riddle, Grindelwald and Hitler connection. Tom Riddle tied to Grindelwald and Grindelwald tied to Hitler. But, I speculate a Gryffindor, Grindelwald and Dumbledore connection. I suspect the original owner of the Mirror of Erised was Gryffindor. The Mirror is stolen or found by Grindelwald. The Mirror is returned or became a possession of Dumbledore after he defeated Grindelwald. (I used the word returned in the previous sentence because I suspect that Gryffindor was the first Headmaster of Hogwarts. Along with the portraits, Gryffindor and others have left items in headmaster’s office for future headmasters and headmistresses. There are plenty of gadgets in Dumbledore‘s office. Some of these items certainly could have been left by other previous headmasters and headmistresses. )
Recently, the J. K. Rowling website revealed the following excerpt:
“(He) looked rather like a lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.”
I suspect this is the Half-Blood Prince and that Gryffindor is an animagus that turns into a lion. The mane, tawny color hair and yellowish eyes suggest a lion. I don’t take the Prince title too literally. I could imagine a flashback scene at the beginning of Book 6, Salazar Slytherin is yelling after sealing the Chamber of Secrets, “Godric you Half-Blood Prince your love of Mudbloods will destroy Hogwarts!” Wizards aren’t above sarcasm, “Weasley is our King!”, was chanted by Slytherins against Ron. Also, Half-Blood could have replaced the politically incorrect Mudblood. Gen. John “Black Jack” Pershing, the WWI Commander in Chief of the American Expeditionary Force, was a former captain in the all Colored (Black) 10th Cavalry Regiment. The nickname “Black Jack” was given because he was a captain in a Colored (Black) unit. It was given before he became Commander in Chief in WWI. History books, of course, have changed the original racist nickname that was given to Gen. John Pershing. (As a former history teacher informed me once that “Black Jack” Pershing wasn’t named after the strong and sturdy blackjack tree.) If Muggles sometimes edit and rewrite history, why not Wizards? If Mudblood is that offensive, why not substitute Half-Blood.
Now, I’d like to support my theory of Gryffindor being an animagus that turns into a lion. Prof. McGonagall is an animagus. I suspect Dumbledore is an animagus if not a metamorphmagus. McGonagall is the current Transfiguration and and Dumbledore is a former Transfiguration teacher. Parselmouth is a trait associated with Salazar Slytherin and dark wizards. Why couldn’t being an animagus be a trait associated with Gryffindor? James Potter, Sirius Black and Peter Pettigrew are all animagi. They were also all in Gryffindor. The mascot of Slytherin is a serpent because Salazar Slytherin talked to serpents. Maybe the mascot of Gryffindor is a lion because Godric Gryffindor was an animagus that turned to a lion.
A flashback introducing the Half-Blood Prince at the beginning of Book 6 makes sense. From the J. K. Rowling website,
(the Half-Blood Prince is) “ . . . a major part, but not only part of Book Six.”
The Half-Blood Prince, like the Goblet of Fire, would be a catalyst. The Goblet of Fire was only needed to select the students that were to be in the Triwizard Tournament. You could have easily titled Book 4 Harry Potter and the Triwizard Tournament. Even with the age restriction at the beginning of Book 4, you would have suspected that Harry would somehow be chosen to be in the Triwizard Tournament. A poor title would give too much away. Half-Blood Prince has probably been chosen not to give away too much and relates to the story of Book 6. Just like the Goblet of Fire doesn’t give away too much and relates to the story of Book 4.
Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, not killed, destroyed, etc. I think this is significant. For example, there was an old B-movie American cowboy of the 40‘s and early 50‘s, the Cisco Kid. The Kid, had the words, “ I don’t want to hurt you.”, engraved on the barrel of his guns. So, he only wounded his foes, never killing anyone. It’s just like having your phazer set at stun instead of kill. Dumbledore chooses not to kill. (It is our choices that show what we truly are.)
Both Dumbledore and Tom Riddle lived in Britain during WWII. Tom Riddle lived in a Muggle London orphanage during the Blitz. You can easily imagine Tom Riddle listening to Hitler over the radio. A bomb could have easily destroyed St Mungo’s, though enchantments etc. could possibly prevented any damage. (Could it be when you see the aftermath of air raid damage, there is that lone building that somehow avoided the firestorm and is relatively intact, perhaps it was an enchantment protected Wizard building. After all St. Mungo‘s is by Muggle eyes just an abandoned storefront.) Dumbledore chooses to follow Muggle affairs and at least reads Muggles papers. (That’s how he knows about the murder of Frank Bryce.)
Let’s look at this information from the J. K. Rowling website:
Question: In what way is “Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince” related to “Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets”?
. . . The link I mentioned between books two and six does, in fact, relate to the “Half-Blood Prince” (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in “Chamber”.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in “Chamber” that foreshadows something that he finds out in “Prince”. . . .
Reader’s speculation should be focusing on some information in “Chamber” (the book) that relates to “Prince” (the book). If you look at Rowling’s response it’s not “the Chamber”. So, readers should be looking for something or some information found in “Chamber” (the book) that relates to “Prince” (the book). But, you could easily say something found in the “Chamber of Secrets” (the place) is still something found in the “Chamber” (the book). So, let’s look at the things present in the “Chamber of Secrets” (the place).
The Chamber itself was built by Slytherin. The Chamber included the Basilisk and Ginny brought Tom Riddle’s diary and Tom Riddle appeared. After Harry entered, there is Harry’s wand (a brother wand to Tom Riddle’s) and Fawkes brought the Sorting Hat which produced Gryffindor’s sword. The fact that Harry and Tom/Voldermort wand’s are brother wands was revealed in Book 1. Harry learned that,
“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities”
After reading, “Godric Gryffindor” on the sword, Harry learned,
“Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that o
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Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 12:18 pm (#1605 of 2923)
“Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry.”
But later, Harry also learned how powerful House-elf magic is.
“You’ve lost me my servant, boy!” (Lucius Malfoy)
But Dobby shouted, “You shall not harm Harry Potter!”
There was a loud bang, and Mr. Malfoy was thrown backward. He crashed down the stairs, three at a time, landing in a crumpled heap on the landing below. He got up, his face livid, and pulled out his wand, but Dobby raised a long, threatening finger.
“You shall go now,” he said fiercely, pointing down at Mr. Malfoy. “You shall not touch Harry Potter. You shall go now.”
Lucius Malfoy had no choice. . . . (page 338, American edition, CoS)
But, how powerful is House-elf magic? In Goblet of Fire, are these statements by Barty Couch Jr.:
. . . “Winky was afraid to see me so angry. She used here own brand of magic to bind me to her. She pulled me from the tent, pulled me into the forest, away from the Death Eaters. I wanted to hold her back. I wanted to return to the campsite.” . . . (page 687, American edition GoF)
House-elf magic is wandless. House-elves can apparate and disparate within Hogwarts. There are 100 House-elves at Hogwarts. A hundred House-elves would be a strong ally in the second war against Voldermort. But, how does this relate to the Half-Blood Prince unless the Half-Blood Prince is half House-elf. Hagrid is half giant and wizard. Fleur is a quarter veela, her grandmother is a veela. (Peter Pettigrew is short, could he be half House-elf? A half House-elf and wizard Prince would certain rally the Hogwarts House-elves if not all other House-elves against Voldermort. )
Back to “Chamber” (the book), there is quite a bit of debate about a Slytherin vs. Gryffindor dynamic. If Voldermort is the Last Heir of Slytherin then Harry must be the Last Heir of Gryffindor. If Slytherin built the Chamber of Secrets could Gryffindor have left something also. I speculate that Gryffindor left the Mirror of Erised, the Sorting Hat and his Sword. Fawkes is a phoenix and phoenixes are reborn from fire every 500 to 600 years. Fawkes could easily have been owned by Gryffindor.
Gryffindor was the originally the Mudblood Prince. Because Mudblood is so offensive revisionist have altered it to the Half-Blood Prince. Gryffindor was an animagus that turns into a lion. Gryffindor owned the Mirror of Erised that led to the defeat of Grindelwald. (Could a spell rebound from a mirror? Probably). Dumbledore has the Mirror of Erised. And finally, the Mirror of Erised will be use it to defeat Voldermort.
Just something to mull over on a hot Labor Day weekend. Ciao GC
PS Just shows want a bored Harry Potter will do until Book 6 is released.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 4, 2004 1:51 pm (#1606 of 2923)
Gosh, Gerald Costales, those were two very long and insightful posts (though only supposed to be one)! There is certainly plenty to mull over this weekend.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 3:02 pm (#1607 of 2923)
Thanks, Loony Loopy Larissa. I couldn't fit everything in one post. Looks like the posts were getting a little stale. I know this will shake up things quite a bit. Thanks again for taking the time to read it all. GC
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essie125 - Sep 5, 2004 7:45 am (#1608 of 2923)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
In every book The thing in the title is always something that we have never heard of and that needs an introduction. 1. The philosopher's stone: We had never heard of this before. 2. The Chamber of secrets: never heard of that before either. 3. The prisoner of Azkaban: We were introduced to Sirius Black in SS/PS ch. 1, but we didn't know him as the prisoner of Azkaban. 4. The Goblet of Fire: was also a new concept to us 5. The order of the Phoenix: We had never heard of this either.
So my thoughts are that this half-blood prince will be someone we never known or someone we know, but we don't know him as the half-blood prince. which means well it could be anyone except LV and HP. Also it can't be a girl. which narrows it down a little bit. Then we have to get rid of all the full blooded and muggleborn wizards. Well that limits it even more. But it is still not clear. It's really nice having a guess though eh. So good luck xxx essie
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The One - Sep 5, 2004 8:15 am (#1609 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
But CoS and GoF are the only title items that were completely new.
The Philosopher's stone is a well-known concept from real life mythology, with properties very similar to the properties of the stone in the book.
The Chamber of Secrets is completely new.
The Prisoner from Azkaban. Both Sirius Black and Azkaban prison were known. (But just mentioned in passing)
The Goblet of Fire is completely new.
The order of the Phoenix was known, but only as "the old crowd".
But that does not bring us any closer to what or who is the Half Blood Prince.
We may claim that more often than not the name comes from something that is known already, e.g. Aberforth (my guess, simply because he has to be good for something) or GG or whoever.
You may also see a pattern Known, unknown, known, unknown, known, unknown. What to guess in that situation is beyond me.
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Madame Librarian - Sep 5, 2004 8:22 am (#1610 of 2923)
essie, well, in general you're right--every author has to introduce us to his or her universe/reality as it will be in their book. And, we know that JKR tweaks classic folklore, legends and magic lore to suit the needs of her story. An example is how she treats elves in a very different way than how Tolkein does, say, starting with their very size.
But I beg to differ with you on the issue of the Philosopher's Stone. I think many people had heard of this--it's a very old, very well-known myth, and Flamel was a real alchemist, born in 1326. She stays pretty true to the actual legend associated with it-- that it's a source of immortality and the tool by which base metal can be transformed into gold. The only little blip is the charm DD overlays that makes it impossible to hang onto if you really want it for that purpose (I think I got that right).
Sure, very young readers may be hearing this legend for the first time. There's a first time to learn about any of those things. In fact, this is the reason the American publisher (Scholastic) deemed it necessary to change the US title to ... the Sorcerer's Stone because some condescending so-and-so felt that American children had never heard of the use of the word philosopher to mean the same as sorcerer, and would be unable to ask about it. Sheesh!
You may be right about the other titles, though. They are unique to the HP series, and JKR makes sure we get clued in pretty quickly in the earlier chapters of the books.
Ciao. Barb
EDIT--I see The One has posted on this, too. We end up at the same point--waiting for book 6. (**sighs in impatience**)
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 5, 2004 8:22 am (#1611 of 2923)
Also, the title object or person was introduced fairly early in the story (except of course Sorcerer's Stone because of all the back story)... fairly early being at or before Halloween. I sincerely doubt it would be something introduced during, say, Dumbledore's end-of-the-story wrap-up talk.
Edit: Madame Librarian, I quite agree.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 8:35 am (#1612 of 2923)
Madame Librarian, I agree as well. I really wish they hadn't changed the title. Right after reading PS I had to read the Trumpeter of Krakow. I remember thinking that a whole story about a stone was pretty dumb, then relized that SS was about a stone, and then I found out they were about the same stone. I felt real dumb then.
Perhaps the HBP refers to some legend of some sort that JKR is using. Does anyone know any legends about half-n-half male royalty?
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Madame Librarian - Sep 5, 2004 9:06 am (#1613 of 2923)
Well, the only thing that's pops to mind is Twain's The Prince and the Pauper (great, fun read, BTW), and that's a real stretch.
If there is some legendary story that we all seem not to be able to recall, then it is way too obscure. The legend of the Philosopher's Stone is not at all obscure. In fact, the term is even used as an idiom in English to refer to a goal, usually scientific, that many are working very hard to reach--e.g., a clean energy source, painless dentistry (I hope they get that one soon), cures for various diseases, and so on.
Ciao. Barb
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Chris. - Sep 5, 2004 9:09 am (#1614 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I didn't know about the Philosopher's Stone until I read Harry Potter. But now, I've started to learn that lots of HP related creatures or objects etc have been used before, but perhaps modified by JKR.
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Lunar Tides - Sep 5, 2004 2:37 pm (#1615 of 2923)
Hey everyone,
I got it: Trevor is the HBP, and some girl (like Fleur) will kiss him.
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The One - Sep 5, 2004 2:47 pm (#1616 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
I got it: Trevor is the HBP, and some girl (like Fleur) will kiss him.
:-)
But perhaps this should go on the ship-ship tread? :-)
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 5, 2004 3:11 pm (#1617 of 2923)
I'm American, and I hadn't heard of the Philosopher's (or Sorcerer's...) Stone until Harry Potter. I did know about alchemy, however. I was also quite amused when I saw an article in the newspaper about Nicholas Flamel. Prior to that, I had no idea he was a real person. She is an absolute genious.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 3:20 pm (#1618 of 2923)
Mordred, King Athur's illeginamate son came to mind but would be double blood or something like that because his mother was his father's half-sister. Perhaps if I'm feeling motivated I'll search through mythology stories.
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Cuivienen - Sep 5, 2004 5:03 pm (#1619 of 2923)
Gerald Costales, that is my idea for HBP! Mine! You stole it! *Cries*
The "House-elves are important" deal is my favorite pet theory for HBP. It has no backing in canon, but nor does anything else, so I'm going to post it here.
House-elves once were not the only Elves in the Wizarding World, they were simply the servant class to a more Tolkien-esque group of Elves that held themselves separate from human society. At some point, these Elves began to disappear, and, like wizards, a few intermarried with humans. Eventually, all of the Elves disappeared, their blood overwhelmed by the much larger pool of humans. The House-elves, still feeling compelled to serve someone, offered themselves as servants to the wealthier and more influential wizarding families, who immediately agreed.
Elven blood, however, is fickle. It will reappear, somewhat, in any human who has two part-Elven bloodlines, and these humans are referred to as half-Elves (even though there is very little Elf in them). In my speculation, the major manifestations are violet eyes and slightly pointed ears, but they could be anything. Such humans, whether Muggle or Wizard, have something of the Elves' innate magical capabilities.
Anyway, on to the storyline:
As the Elves began to disappear, even the Royal Family intermarried with humans, thereby preserving a "sleeping" branch of the Royal line. In the year Harry was born, a half-Elf boy was born of this bloodline. Realizing the potential of such a child to rally the House-elves and not having foreknowledge of the fall of Voldemort, Dumbledore discovered the child and hid him away. When Voldemort feel, Dumbledore knew he would return because of the Prophecy and so kept the child hidden. Now, however, with VWII in full swing, the Half-Blood Prince will be brought out from where he was hidden (presumably with a Squib or parents of a Muggleborn) and sent to Hogwarts. Before he can even realizes his potential however, he is kidnapped by Voldemort, who knows his significance, and a good part of the novel is the rescue attempt.
Okay, okay, lame idea. But it was MY THEORY first. When it's what's in HBP...
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Gerald Costales - Sep 5, 2004 6:56 pm (#1620 of 2923)
Cuivienen. Thanks for reading my posts, but I was only listing known mixes of wizards and other magical creatures. Hagrid - half giant and wizard. Fleur is a quarter-blood, a quadroon, assuming she only has one veela grandmother and three wizard grandparents. I was only saying Peter Pettigrew could be a half-blood because of his extreme shortness. If he was a half-blood, I only speculated that he was half House-elf (again to explain Peter's extreme shortness) and wizard. This did connect with my feeling that House-elves will be a force to be reckoned with during the comimg VWII because of their powerful magic. And I listed two quotes from the books to back this belief of the power of House-elf magic.
Your ideas are totally your own and I think they are interesting, intelligent, and entirely original. I'm sorry I didn't key in a cool nickname but GC will do in the future. Thanks again. Bye GC
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buggirl - Sep 5, 2004 8:39 pm (#1621 of 2923)
I have a question GC... (New to the forum) Are you saying that somehow the mirror of Erised was there when Voldemort tried to kill Harry? So he saw himself raising his wand and cursing Harry in the mirror and somehow the curse rebounded from the mirror onto himself and a part ricocheted onto Harry causing the scar? That's an interesting thought. Hhmmm.
Buggirl
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Magical Llama - Sep 5, 2004 11:32 pm (#1622 of 2923)
Hey, Lunar Tides, that is the best idea I have heard in ages.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 6:56 am (#1623 of 2923)
Hello, buggirl. I recently posted two very long posts (#1606 & 1607).
To summerize, first Godric Gryffindor is the HBP. I say that the recent excerpt of a lion-like person is a description of Gryffindor. There are arguements to support this speculation. Second, Godric is the original owner of the Mirror of Erised. Slytherin left the Chamber of Secrets. So, Gryffindor left the Mirror, the Sorting Hat and his sword. Fawkes the phoenix is reborn by fire every 500 to 600 years. Could be that Fawkes was also Gryffindor's phoenix and is now Dumbledore's. Third, (now here's the stretch) The Mirror of Erised is found or stolen by Grindelwald. Grindelwald is the Dark Wizard defeated by Dumbledore in 1945. (Grindelwald is only mentioned once on the back of a chocolate frog card.) I say Dumbledore chooses not to kill. That was why the word "defeated" is used. Grindelwald is not killed, destroyed, etc. Again, additional ideas to support this speculation. Fourth, there is speculation about the power of House-elf magic and the possibility of House-Elves allying with Wizard against Voldermort in the coming war. References from the books, etc. are used to prove why I think House-elf magic is so powerful. (House-elves use wandless magic, House-elves can apparate and disapparate in Hogwarts, etc.)
(Finally, following is the conclusion from the post #1607)
Gryffindor was the originally the Mudblood Prince. Because Mudblood is so offensive revisionist have altered it to the Half-Blood Prince. Gryffindor was an animagus that turns into a lion. Gryffindor owned the Mirror of Erised that led to the defeat of Grindelwald. (Could a spell rebound from a mirror? Probably). Dumbledore has the Mirror of Erised. And finally, the Mirror of Erised will be use it to defeat Voldermort.
Ta Ta for now. GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 7:00 am (#1624 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Hmm...JKR has become a revisionist now? With her own word?
"Because Mudblood is so offensive revisionist have altered it to the Half-Blood Prince."
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Star Crossed - Sep 6, 2004 7:15 am (#1625 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
GC, I think you're assuming too much. We don't know how often Fawkes burns, it couldn't possibly be every 500 or 600 years, because when someone did own a pet, they would not know it burnt to a crisp, then came back from the ashes. For many, it would not burn in his lifetime, but instead, keep living. Now for the odd man out, he would only see it burn once, and might assume that his pet died, and would try to chuck it. It would have to be reborn enough that people would figure out 'Oh, this is supposed to happen.' Also, we don't know if GG owned the mirror of Erised, do we?
If Mudblood was so offensive, why not change it to Muggleborn instead of completely destroying what it is? Mudblood and Half-Blood are two very different things.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 7:45 am (#1626 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes, Muggles and Wizards are the revisionists. If HBP is a historical figure then Wizard historians would soften his nickname our the years. Japanese historians were recently criticized for trying to soften Imperial Japanese actions during WWII. There are reasons historian use lables like "The Rape of Nanching", the attack on Nanching by the Japanese Imperial Army or the "The Night of Long Knives", the night Hitler goes out to kill his political enemies or "Krystalnacht", the night Jewish storefronts were broken or "The Bataan Death March", the march of American and Filipino soilders to POW camps or "The Trail of Tears", the forced relocation of Native-Americans to reservations.
If there are sad and terrible historical events even in the Wizard world. Voldemort and the killing of the Potters. The torture of the Longbottoms. There are Death Eaters probably revising Wizard history to make Voldermort look like a Wizard Hero. Sons (like Draco) and daugthers have been listening to stories of the glorious crusade of Voldermort to purify the Wizard race. To a child anicent history is anything before they were born. (I know this over the top. But, the revisionist idea I don't think is that speculative.)
gc (lowerclass to show my humility) I know I don't know everything, just go with some of the ideas. I did research most of the ideas. I read past chats by JKR, looked at other websites, and even quoted JKR book to support most of the speculations. I'm not thin skinned. I just want to generate some good ideas for good posts. Fire away. I'm a big boy. I'm also a big bored Harry Potter fan. (sigh!)
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Madame Kulich - Sep 6, 2004 8:02 am (#1627 of 2923)
GC, I thought your ideas were fantastic. If all of our ideas about the HBP, ending of the book, why VOldemort didn't die, etc. were backed up to the letter in the books, we would know all the answers, so I appreciate your and others ideas. Yours were backed up the best they could be and you added your thoughts and ideas wonderfully. I will take a look at the books with your ideas in mind and see if I can come up with anything to expand on them. Thanks for the great food for thought. MIrror of ERised owned by GG- my favorite new idea! Great one!
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 8:05 am (#1628 of 2923)
Star Crossed - Yes, you're absolutely right. We don't know the origins of the Mirror of Erised. But, it was so important and JKR used it so well. I don't think it would just vanish like a floobeworm or blast-end skwert. I did say this was the stretch part of my posts #1606 and 1607.
I know TwinklingBlueEyes was giving me a dig in post #1626. But I have some responses to my revisionist history speculation and think it's very valid. (Mostly American history references, but the WWII ones should be familiar to everyone.) Fire Away!
I knew those posts would generate some pointed responses. GC
PS Sir Nick is over 500 yr.s old (Deathday party 1492). Godric lived before or about the same time as Sir Nick. Fawkes I think could easily be owned by Godric. (I got the 500 to 600 years information from a dictionary's phoenix definition.) Also, then Hagrid got Norbert, he just checked a book from the library about dragons. If you own a Phoenix you probably know it's reborn by fire. Dumbledore apologized on Fawkes burning day in the book. A phoenix is not easily tamed so only a truly great wizard like Dumbledore or Godric Gryffindor could possibly own one. GC
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 8:35 am (#1629 of 2923)
Dalus Kulich - Thanks for reading the posts. I put quite a bit of time to make them logical. I know we all have our agendas. Right now mine are Gryffindor is the HBP and that the Mirror of Erised will be returning to the storyline. TaTa for Now. GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 8:39 am (#1630 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"I know TwinklingBlueEyes was giving me a dig in post #1626." It was not intended as a dig, but an honest response.
In my view revisionists are right down there on the list with our modern versions, ie: politically correct. I personally have no use for either.
"Muggles and Wizards are the revisionists." My point was muggles and wizards did not write the books, nor come up with the term mudblood.
I think we agree to disagree and will leave it at that. :-)
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dragon keeper - Sep 6, 2004 9:18 am (#1631 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I just wanted to say that everyone on this forum is extremely creative! It seemed as though we had discussed every possibility for the HBP and then another one pops up...
I really like the idea of the HBP being an historical figure in the book, one that we have never met before. As with Tom Riddle in CoS, HBP could be a memory used to reveal information. It would make sense to put the story of the heir of Slytherin and the heir of Griffindor in the same book, but then she had to take part of it out...
I agree with whoever (Phoenix Song?) said that we should be thinking of what the HBP could do for the story rather than who it is, it could be anyone. We could all go barking, howling mad trying to figure it out. But we could go mad trying to think of the possibilities for the plot as well...
Anyhow, KUDOS to everyone for all of your posts!! Even if I don't agree with them all, they keep me thinking.
P.S. Since no one brought it up yet, in response to Steve Newton's query about King's Cross Station being the one used (many, many posts ago: around Sept. 1st) on the JKR site, she said that her mum and dad met at King's Cross Station years ago. That may be why she chose to use it in the books. (EDIT: post #1571)
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 10:07 am (#1632 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes - I know JKR wrote the books. It was speculation and I wasn't hurt *cry* or anything. I won't use the term dig again. I've seen your posts and think they are all very good. I think as an older reading (past 45 and heading to that dreaded big #50) our experiences give us a very different view of the books.
These are children's books. But, I read them and see them entirely differently than my 12, 14, and 18 year old children do. (Still haven't got the wife to read them though.) GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 2:03 pm (#1633 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I'm 48 :-) Is no biggie, we just have different views. A dig sure wasn't intended. Have a butterbeer!
By the way, I enjoy your posts too! If I agreed with all of them it would get boring in a hurry!
Let's see, the half-blood prince, maybe one of Aberforth's goats? Naw... I think my weekend pass from St Mungo's is up.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 3:53 pm (#1634 of 2923)
Thanks TwinklingBlueEyes. This really isn't the place to put this post. But in response to Aberforth and goats. If, Dumbledore is a possible animagus (what animail he turns into I don't know.) Then Aberforth is an animagus that turns into a goat. Probably why he has had problems with goats. GC :-) Shegoats run it's Aberforth.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 3:56 pm (#1635 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Oh, that was baaaddd!
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 7, 2004 8:31 am (#1636 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I would bet if Dumbledore was an animagus - he could probably do it with little effort - that he could change into more than one animal at will.
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Mynn - Sep 7, 2004 10:02 am (#1637 of 2923)
I think this has been discussed before, a really long time ago, but can people decide which animal they want to turn into when they become an animagus?
I can't imagine anybody wanting to be a rat or a beetle, but then I guess both have served their purpose. I don't remember, but it would be interesting if Dumbledore could become more than one animal (or even a little blue Ford Anglier) but I guess that would be more transfiguration.
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Chris. - Sep 7, 2004 10:34 am (#1638 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Mynn, no, you can't decide what animal you can turn into. It reflects your personality... I think.
I thin you can only have one form. I would like to see Dumbledore as a wise owl.
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Mynn - Sep 7, 2004 10:51 am (#1639 of 2923)
I know this is off the subject, but nice avatar Prongs, I love Fairly Odd Parents.
I didn't think you could choose your Form when you became an animagus.
So, to tie this into the half blood prince... I just don't know! There are so many theories and 'ifs', 'ands', or 'buts'. I have no idea who it is or what it is.
ACCIO HP6 The Half Blood Prince!
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Gerald Costales - Sep 7, 2004 1:16 pm (#1640 of 2923)
Got this from the JKR Chat Transcript in the Lexicon:
Question: When you turn into an Animagus, can you choose what animal you become? Or does this get "assigned" to you?
JKR: No, you can't choose. You become the animal that suits you best. Imagine the humilation when you finally transform after years of study and find thay you most closely resemble a warthog.
Don't know if this helps. GC
Seems to me if that lion-like person described in the excerpt from the HBP is an animagus, he'd turn into a lion. I still think Godric Gryffindor is the HBP and the lion-like person described in the excerpt is the HBP. GC
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Ann - Sep 8, 2004 6:18 am (#1641 of 2923)
I think Godric Gryffindor is probably a pure-blood. It would be hard to imagine Salazar Slytherin hanging out with him otherwise. But if he was royal, and he or more likely his son married a Muggle (or perhaps even a Muggle-born), their son might be a half-blood prince. Such a marriage, and the question whether such a prince could attend Hogwarts, might have explained the rift between GG and SS.
So I think the clue guy is the half blood prince, and he's likely to be Gryffindor Jr. (This would also make the glasses a bit more probable historically.)
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Gerald Costales - Sep 8, 2004 6:53 am (#1642 of 2923)
Thanks Ann, I have a different take on the Half-Blood issue. (See my posts #1606 & 1607) I don't take the Half-Blood title too literally.
The Slytherins yelled, "Weasley is our KING!", during Quidditch matches to taunt Ron. I proposed that Godric Gryffindor was originally called the "Mudblood Prince" & that over the years this nickname was changed to the more politically correct "Half-Blood Prince". Speculation of course, but "Mudblood" could be such a totally offensive term that it wouldn't be published or used in textbooks, newspapers, etc. Just a thought.
If I've read your post correctly you proposes that Godric left an hier that could be the "Half-Blood Prince". Could be? Do you have an guesses who it is? :-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 7:21 am (#1643 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GC: I like your theory that Godric could have originally been called the "Mudblood Prince" in much the same way that Dumbledore is referred to as the "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles". (GoF, Ch. 33, pg 648, U.S. hardback edition)
I don't know that his title would have necessarily been revised, though. Perhaps he was originally called the "Half-blood Prince". We don't know that the term "Mudblood" existed in his day. The prejudice may have been more fearful and less hateful, and the term may have appeared later. Also, it may have not been the pure-blood fanatics that named him. If he were nicknamed by half-bloods and other "blood traitors", the name that they would have given him would have been less ugly. They would have called him the "Half-blood Prince" and not the "mudblood prince" because they agreed with his stance on muggle-born admittance.
The Death Eaters refer to DD as the "Champion of commoners and mudbloods" but the wizards who are not blood fanatics would refer to him as the "Champion of the people." I hope that I'm being more clear than not. I'm trying to say that we don't know that the "prince" was originally called anything other than the "half-blood prince". Also, we don't know who called him the half-blood Prince. So, maybe we shouldn't assume that his title has been revised through history.
Of course, this is also just speculation on my part, so feel free to disagree with me.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 8, 2004 7:30 am (#1644 of 2923)
I also asked if there was a Godric Jr., do you want to speculate who that could be? Maybe not important. Just asking. :-) GC
Or for that matter does anyone want to discuss the hier of Gryffindor as the Half-Blood Prince? Gryffindor could have married a royal Muggle to produce a Half-Blood Prince.
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Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 8:58 am (#1645 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I really do think that the heir of Gryffindor is Harry. I don't know if this connection is by blood (the Potters lived in Godric's Hollow) or by choice (Harry choosing the pick up GG's sword...and therefore continue to battle on his behalf) but I do think that the heir of Gryffindor is Harry. {I'm just now realizing that the initials of heir of Gryffindor is HOG...wonder if that had any bearing to the Hogwart's name?} Since JKR has said that Harry and Voldemort/Riddle are not the HBP, and I think that Harry is the heir, then it would eliminate Harry as the HBP.
Could there be a Godric, Jr.? Yes, maybe, he is the HBP. I kind of like the theory that Godric descended from a union with Merlin and a second wife, therefore Godric would be a half-blood. (Just speculation of course.)
I haven't concentrated too much on who I think that the HBP will be. He could be a completely new character from the vast imagination of JKR. I don't want to waste too much energy trying to figure out who this person may be since I don't think that we've met them yet.
I have concentrated a lot of brain energy to deciding what I think that the HBP will bring to the story. I think that it will be: an adult, who will either add some central information/history to pull all of the puzzle pieces together and help Harry to make the correct choices; or, it will be a strong wizard who will help the Order to accomplish their goals. On the second choice I envision someone similar to Mad Eye Moody. On the first choice I see Godric Gryffindor acting through a memory to deliver information or counsel.
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Ann - Sep 8, 2004 10:42 am (#1646 of 2923)
I don't quite understand why the "Mud-blood" Prince you propose would have been inaccurately called a Half-blood Prince, when there is a perfectly good, non-pejorative, and accurate term, the Muggle-born Prince, which could have been used.
Since JKR says the "Half Blood Prince" is a strand of the story that she might have introduced in Book 2, but is now finally using in Book 6, he probably isn't a living character. It is hard to imagine taking a new character who has an important enough role to be the title character out of a plot without destroying the whole thing. (How could you extract Sirius from PoA, for example?) Suppose she yanked a Half-Blood Prince who was DADA professor in CoS and inserted Lockhart: Harry learned nothing in his 2nd year DADA course and it was really a side-line to the story (can you imagine Book 2 being named after Lockhart?), and he really needs to learn a lot in his 6th year, so I don't think the same guy would do.
An historical character, probably related to Gryffindor and/or the departure of Slytherin from Hogwarts (or even Slytherin himself?), would have fit in well with the plot of CoS, perhaps throwing more light on why Slytherin felt it necessary to build the Chamber of Secrets. But JKR obviously felt that presenting that particular back-story/strand of the plot at that point would give us too much information that would be much better if it were introduced later. (Or, it may simply have been a matter of length--remember, she wasn't a literary star when CoS went to press; he publishers would never have taken a 700 or 800 page book at that point.)
As for who the Heir of Gryffindor might be, I think he's a new character, the guy in the clue, and probably a lion animagus. But I think, for the reasons I've explained, that if he's the HBP, he's historical. Or I suppose he could conceivably be a new living character who plays the role of introducing a lot of that historical information.
(I don't think Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor, because of the fact that choices are supposed to be more important than ancestry, and because it seems too tritely symmetrical to satisfy JKR. It would reduce the whole series to a battle of the Heirs, and reduce the power of Harry and Voldemort as individuals who made different choices.)
Sorry to go on for so long....
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Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 1:07 pm (#1647 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Ann: Do you think it's possible that the Heir of Gryffindor would be someone who has chosen to stand in for GG? In a duel, the duelists have "seconds" who will stand in for them if they are unable to continue the duel. As a blood relative, Voldemort has chosen to take up the mantle of what he considers to be Slytherin's "noble work" and will duel this final battle in his place. He did not have to choose to continue SS's feelings on this matter. He believed the same way as SS and chose to be his "second" of sorts. His blood relation did not "force" him to accept this battle, he chose to do it.
In the same manner, I see Harry as taking up the mantle of GG. He has chosen to do this. I think that in choosing not to be sorted in Slytherin, in choosing to go to rescue Ginny, in choosing to grasp the handle of that sword, in choosing to teach others to defend themselves against the dark arts, that Harry has in essence chosen to be GG's "second". I see this as becoming the Heir of Gryffindor even if there is no blood relation involved. Adoptive children are just as entitled to the family legacy as the "natural born" children. Harry has adopted the legacy of GG with regards to: teaching all with magical abilities; befriending members of other species; and protecting the welfare of others. I say that he has accepted the adoption of himself into the Gryffindor family regardless of blood, as choice wins out over blood. As Dumbledore said at the end of CoS in reference to Godric Gryffindor's sword: "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry." (CoS, Ch. 18, pg. 334, U.S. Ed. hardback)
Barbie
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haymoni - Sep 8, 2004 1:27 pm (#1648 of 2923)
But Harry wasn't questioning his blood line. He was questioning his House assignment. Thus the quote from Dumbledore.
I do agree with your other statements though. Harry has picked up the fight. I still think he'll be related to Gryffindor.
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Star Crossed - Sep 8, 2004 1:28 pm (#1649 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Haymoni, what point would it make for him to be heir though? We know JKR only does things for a reason, so what would that reason be?
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Julie Aronson - Sep 8, 2004 2:28 pm (#1650 of 2923)
Phoenix:
Check out the "What's in a name" link all the way at the bottom of the list--I was daydreaming in Anglo-Saxon class yesterday and had an epiphany about the Heir of Gryffindor.
I'd love your take on it!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I know I'm just grasping at straws here Siriusly. The old life for a life just seems logical. I really got the idea from lady blacks post and something from a book I read along time ago. (The Lost Years of Merlin series, a pretty good bunch of books.) In it Merlin's father promises to kill his son to save his life or his wife's life or both, because they had broken a ancient law or something like that.(it's been along time since I read it.) I guess thats not even close to canon, but that's where I'm coming from.
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Lady Black99 - Sep 3, 2004 7:26 pm (#1602 of 2923)
23 year old first grade teacher who is obsessed with everything Harry Potter
hellocello600 I don't believe that LV used the ancient magic that Lily used for Harry I think it is some sort of Black/ Dark magic we are not aware of.
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Siriusly - Sep 3, 2004 7:27 pm (#1603 of 2923)
Sounds as good as anything any of us have come up with. We are all just grasping at straws till Jo gives us the answers.
Lead on McDuff.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 12:11 pm (#1604 of 2923)
The Lion, Dark Wizard and Mirror or Gryffindor, Grindelwald and the Mirror of Erised
Q. In your first book there is secret message on the Mirror of Erised. Are there other secret messages throughout the book that we should be watching for?
J.K. Not secret messages of that type, but if you read carefully you’ll get hints about what’s coming. And that’s all I’m saying! (October 16, 2000, Scholastic.com chat)
Grindelwald is only mentioned once on the back of a Chocolate Frog card. But, I think some of us suspect that there is a greater or hidden importance to him. When Harry was trapped in the Chamber of Secrets, who would have expected that the Sorting Hat would produce Gryffindor’s sword to help Harry defeat the Basilisk. Or in the graveyard surrounded by Death Eaters, who would have expected that because Harry and Voldermort own brother wands; Harry would be saved from certain death. It is these small details that keep us wondering if some other small detail, like the mention of Grindelwald on a card, is a possible clue to future events in the story.
The current train of thought is that there is a Tom Riddle, Grindelwald and Hitler connection. Tom Riddle tied to Grindelwald and Grindelwald tied to Hitler. But, I speculate a Gryffindor, Grindelwald and Dumbledore connection. I suspect the original owner of the Mirror of Erised was Gryffindor. The Mirror is stolen or found by Grindelwald. The Mirror is returned or became a possession of Dumbledore after he defeated Grindelwald. (I used the word returned in the previous sentence because I suspect that Gryffindor was the first Headmaster of Hogwarts. Along with the portraits, Gryffindor and others have left items in headmaster’s office for future headmasters and headmistresses. There are plenty of gadgets in Dumbledore‘s office. Some of these items certainly could have been left by other previous headmasters and headmistresses. )
Recently, the J. K. Rowling website revealed the following excerpt:
“(He) looked rather like a lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.”
I suspect this is the Half-Blood Prince and that Gryffindor is an animagus that turns into a lion. The mane, tawny color hair and yellowish eyes suggest a lion. I don’t take the Prince title too literally. I could imagine a flashback scene at the beginning of Book 6, Salazar Slytherin is yelling after sealing the Chamber of Secrets, “Godric you Half-Blood Prince your love of Mudbloods will destroy Hogwarts!” Wizards aren’t above sarcasm, “Weasley is our King!”, was chanted by Slytherins against Ron. Also, Half-Blood could have replaced the politically incorrect Mudblood. Gen. John “Black Jack” Pershing, the WWI Commander in Chief of the American Expeditionary Force, was a former captain in the all Colored (Black) 10th Cavalry Regiment. The nickname “Black Jack” was given because he was a captain in a Colored (Black) unit. It was given before he became Commander in Chief in WWI. History books, of course, have changed the original racist nickname that was given to Gen. John Pershing. (As a former history teacher informed me once that “Black Jack” Pershing wasn’t named after the strong and sturdy blackjack tree.) If Muggles sometimes edit and rewrite history, why not Wizards? If Mudblood is that offensive, why not substitute Half-Blood.
Now, I’d like to support my theory of Gryffindor being an animagus that turns into a lion. Prof. McGonagall is an animagus. I suspect Dumbledore is an animagus if not a metamorphmagus. McGonagall is the current Transfiguration and and Dumbledore is a former Transfiguration teacher. Parselmouth is a trait associated with Salazar Slytherin and dark wizards. Why couldn’t being an animagus be a trait associated with Gryffindor? James Potter, Sirius Black and Peter Pettigrew are all animagi. They were also all in Gryffindor. The mascot of Slytherin is a serpent because Salazar Slytherin talked to serpents. Maybe the mascot of Gryffindor is a lion because Godric Gryffindor was an animagus that turned to a lion.
A flashback introducing the Half-Blood Prince at the beginning of Book 6 makes sense. From the J. K. Rowling website,
(the Half-Blood Prince is) “ . . . a major part, but not only part of Book Six.”
The Half-Blood Prince, like the Goblet of Fire, would be a catalyst. The Goblet of Fire was only needed to select the students that were to be in the Triwizard Tournament. You could have easily titled Book 4 Harry Potter and the Triwizard Tournament. Even with the age restriction at the beginning of Book 4, you would have suspected that Harry would somehow be chosen to be in the Triwizard Tournament. A poor title would give too much away. Half-Blood Prince has probably been chosen not to give away too much and relates to the story of Book 6. Just like the Goblet of Fire doesn’t give away too much and relates to the story of Book 4.
Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, not killed, destroyed, etc. I think this is significant. For example, there was an old B-movie American cowboy of the 40‘s and early 50‘s, the Cisco Kid. The Kid, had the words, “ I don’t want to hurt you.”, engraved on the barrel of his guns. So, he only wounded his foes, never killing anyone. It’s just like having your phazer set at stun instead of kill. Dumbledore chooses not to kill. (It is our choices that show what we truly are.)
Both Dumbledore and Tom Riddle lived in Britain during WWII. Tom Riddle lived in a Muggle London orphanage during the Blitz. You can easily imagine Tom Riddle listening to Hitler over the radio. A bomb could have easily destroyed St Mungo’s, though enchantments etc. could possibly prevented any damage. (Could it be when you see the aftermath of air raid damage, there is that lone building that somehow avoided the firestorm and is relatively intact, perhaps it was an enchantment protected Wizard building. After all St. Mungo‘s is by Muggle eyes just an abandoned storefront.) Dumbledore chooses to follow Muggle affairs and at least reads Muggles papers. (That’s how he knows about the murder of Frank Bryce.)
Let’s look at this information from the J. K. Rowling website:
Question: In what way is “Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince” related to “Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets”?
. . . The link I mentioned between books two and six does, in fact, relate to the “Half-Blood Prince” (because there is no trace left of the HBP storyline in “Chamber”.) Rather, it relates to a discovery Harry made in “Chamber” that foreshadows something that he finds out in “Prince”. . . .
Reader’s speculation should be focusing on some information in “Chamber” (the book) that relates to “Prince” (the book). If you look at Rowling’s response it’s not “the Chamber”. So, readers should be looking for something or some information found in “Chamber” (the book) that relates to “Prince” (the book). But, you could easily say something found in the “Chamber of Secrets” (the place) is still something found in the “Chamber” (the book). So, let’s look at the things present in the “Chamber of Secrets” (the place).
The Chamber itself was built by Slytherin. The Chamber included the Basilisk and Ginny brought Tom Riddle’s diary and Tom Riddle appeared. After Harry entered, there is Harry’s wand (a brother wand to Tom Riddle’s) and Fawkes brought the Sorting Hat which produced Gryffindor’s sword. The fact that Harry and Tom/Voldermort wand’s are brother wands was revealed in Book 1. Harry learned that,
“It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities”
After reading, “Godric Gryffindor” on the sword, Harry learned,
“Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that o
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Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 12:18 pm (#1605 of 2923)
“Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry.”
But later, Harry also learned how powerful House-elf magic is.
“You’ve lost me my servant, boy!” (Lucius Malfoy)
But Dobby shouted, “You shall not harm Harry Potter!”
There was a loud bang, and Mr. Malfoy was thrown backward. He crashed down the stairs, three at a time, landing in a crumpled heap on the landing below. He got up, his face livid, and pulled out his wand, but Dobby raised a long, threatening finger.
“You shall go now,” he said fiercely, pointing down at Mr. Malfoy. “You shall not touch Harry Potter. You shall go now.”
Lucius Malfoy had no choice. . . . (page 338, American edition, CoS)
But, how powerful is House-elf magic? In Goblet of Fire, are these statements by Barty Couch Jr.:
. . . “Winky was afraid to see me so angry. She used here own brand of magic to bind me to her. She pulled me from the tent, pulled me into the forest, away from the Death Eaters. I wanted to hold her back. I wanted to return to the campsite.” . . . (page 687, American edition GoF)
House-elf magic is wandless. House-elves can apparate and disparate within Hogwarts. There are 100 House-elves at Hogwarts. A hundred House-elves would be a strong ally in the second war against Voldermort. But, how does this relate to the Half-Blood Prince unless the Half-Blood Prince is half House-elf. Hagrid is half giant and wizard. Fleur is a quarter veela, her grandmother is a veela. (Peter Pettigrew is short, could he be half House-elf? A half House-elf and wizard Prince would certain rally the Hogwarts House-elves if not all other House-elves against Voldermort. )
Back to “Chamber” (the book), there is quite a bit of debate about a Slytherin vs. Gryffindor dynamic. If Voldermort is the Last Heir of Slytherin then Harry must be the Last Heir of Gryffindor. If Slytherin built the Chamber of Secrets could Gryffindor have left something also. I speculate that Gryffindor left the Mirror of Erised, the Sorting Hat and his Sword. Fawkes is a phoenix and phoenixes are reborn from fire every 500 to 600 years. Fawkes could easily have been owned by Gryffindor.
Gryffindor was the originally the Mudblood Prince. Because Mudblood is so offensive revisionist have altered it to the Half-Blood Prince. Gryffindor was an animagus that turns into a lion. Gryffindor owned the Mirror of Erised that led to the defeat of Grindelwald. (Could a spell rebound from a mirror? Probably). Dumbledore has the Mirror of Erised. And finally, the Mirror of Erised will be use it to defeat Voldermort.
Just something to mull over on a hot Labor Day weekend. Ciao GC
PS Just shows want a bored Harry Potter will do until Book 6 is released.
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 4, 2004 1:51 pm (#1606 of 2923)
Gosh, Gerald Costales, those were two very long and insightful posts (though only supposed to be one)! There is certainly plenty to mull over this weekend.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 4, 2004 3:02 pm (#1607 of 2923)
Thanks, Loony Loopy Larissa. I couldn't fit everything in one post. Looks like the posts were getting a little stale. I know this will shake up things quite a bit. Thanks again for taking the time to read it all. GC
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essie125 - Sep 5, 2004 7:45 am (#1608 of 2923)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
In every book The thing in the title is always something that we have never heard of and that needs an introduction. 1. The philosopher's stone: We had never heard of this before. 2. The Chamber of secrets: never heard of that before either. 3. The prisoner of Azkaban: We were introduced to Sirius Black in SS/PS ch. 1, but we didn't know him as the prisoner of Azkaban. 4. The Goblet of Fire: was also a new concept to us 5. The order of the Phoenix: We had never heard of this either.
So my thoughts are that this half-blood prince will be someone we never known or someone we know, but we don't know him as the half-blood prince. which means well it could be anyone except LV and HP. Also it can't be a girl. which narrows it down a little bit. Then we have to get rid of all the full blooded and muggleborn wizards. Well that limits it even more. But it is still not clear. It's really nice having a guess though eh. So good luck xxx essie
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The One - Sep 5, 2004 8:15 am (#1609 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
But CoS and GoF are the only title items that were completely new.
The Philosopher's stone is a well-known concept from real life mythology, with properties very similar to the properties of the stone in the book.
The Chamber of Secrets is completely new.
The Prisoner from Azkaban. Both Sirius Black and Azkaban prison were known. (But just mentioned in passing)
The Goblet of Fire is completely new.
The order of the Phoenix was known, but only as "the old crowd".
But that does not bring us any closer to what or who is the Half Blood Prince.
We may claim that more often than not the name comes from something that is known already, e.g. Aberforth (my guess, simply because he has to be good for something) or GG or whoever.
You may also see a pattern Known, unknown, known, unknown, known, unknown. What to guess in that situation is beyond me.
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Madame Librarian - Sep 5, 2004 8:22 am (#1610 of 2923)
essie, well, in general you're right--every author has to introduce us to his or her universe/reality as it will be in their book. And, we know that JKR tweaks classic folklore, legends and magic lore to suit the needs of her story. An example is how she treats elves in a very different way than how Tolkein does, say, starting with their very size.
But I beg to differ with you on the issue of the Philosopher's Stone. I think many people had heard of this--it's a very old, very well-known myth, and Flamel was a real alchemist, born in 1326. She stays pretty true to the actual legend associated with it-- that it's a source of immortality and the tool by which base metal can be transformed into gold. The only little blip is the charm DD overlays that makes it impossible to hang onto if you really want it for that purpose (I think I got that right).
Sure, very young readers may be hearing this legend for the first time. There's a first time to learn about any of those things. In fact, this is the reason the American publisher (Scholastic) deemed it necessary to change the US title to ... the Sorcerer's Stone because some condescending so-and-so felt that American children had never heard of the use of the word philosopher to mean the same as sorcerer, and would be unable to ask about it. Sheesh!
You may be right about the other titles, though. They are unique to the HP series, and JKR makes sure we get clued in pretty quickly in the earlier chapters of the books.
Ciao. Barb
EDIT--I see The One has posted on this, too. We end up at the same point--waiting for book 6. (**sighs in impatience**)
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 5, 2004 8:22 am (#1611 of 2923)
Also, the title object or person was introduced fairly early in the story (except of course Sorcerer's Stone because of all the back story)... fairly early being at or before Halloween. I sincerely doubt it would be something introduced during, say, Dumbledore's end-of-the-story wrap-up talk.
Edit: Madame Librarian, I quite agree.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 8:35 am (#1612 of 2923)
Madame Librarian, I agree as well. I really wish they hadn't changed the title. Right after reading PS I had to read the Trumpeter of Krakow. I remember thinking that a whole story about a stone was pretty dumb, then relized that SS was about a stone, and then I found out they were about the same stone. I felt real dumb then.
Perhaps the HBP refers to some legend of some sort that JKR is using. Does anyone know any legends about half-n-half male royalty?
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Madame Librarian - Sep 5, 2004 9:06 am (#1613 of 2923)
Well, the only thing that's pops to mind is Twain's The Prince and the Pauper (great, fun read, BTW), and that's a real stretch.
If there is some legendary story that we all seem not to be able to recall, then it is way too obscure. The legend of the Philosopher's Stone is not at all obscure. In fact, the term is even used as an idiom in English to refer to a goal, usually scientific, that many are working very hard to reach--e.g., a clean energy source, painless dentistry (I hope they get that one soon), cures for various diseases, and so on.
Ciao. Barb
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Chris. - Sep 5, 2004 9:09 am (#1614 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
I didn't know about the Philosopher's Stone until I read Harry Potter. But now, I've started to learn that lots of HP related creatures or objects etc have been used before, but perhaps modified by JKR.
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Lunar Tides - Sep 5, 2004 2:37 pm (#1615 of 2923)
Hey everyone,
I got it: Trevor is the HBP, and some girl (like Fleur) will kiss him.
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The One - Sep 5, 2004 2:47 pm (#1616 of 2923)
Open minded sceptic
I got it: Trevor is the HBP, and some girl (like Fleur) will kiss him.
:-)
But perhaps this should go on the ship-ship tread? :-)
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 5, 2004 3:11 pm (#1617 of 2923)
I'm American, and I hadn't heard of the Philosopher's (or Sorcerer's...) Stone until Harry Potter. I did know about alchemy, however. I was also quite amused when I saw an article in the newspaper about Nicholas Flamel. Prior to that, I had no idea he was a real person. She is an absolute genious.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 5, 2004 3:20 pm (#1618 of 2923)
Mordred, King Athur's illeginamate son came to mind but would be double blood or something like that because his mother was his father's half-sister. Perhaps if I'm feeling motivated I'll search through mythology stories.
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Cuivienen - Sep 5, 2004 5:03 pm (#1619 of 2923)
Gerald Costales, that is my idea for HBP! Mine! You stole it! *Cries*
The "House-elves are important" deal is my favorite pet theory for HBP. It has no backing in canon, but nor does anything else, so I'm going to post it here.
House-elves once were not the only Elves in the Wizarding World, they were simply the servant class to a more Tolkien-esque group of Elves that held themselves separate from human society. At some point, these Elves began to disappear, and, like wizards, a few intermarried with humans. Eventually, all of the Elves disappeared, their blood overwhelmed by the much larger pool of humans. The House-elves, still feeling compelled to serve someone, offered themselves as servants to the wealthier and more influential wizarding families, who immediately agreed.
Elven blood, however, is fickle. It will reappear, somewhat, in any human who has two part-Elven bloodlines, and these humans are referred to as half-Elves (even though there is very little Elf in them). In my speculation, the major manifestations are violet eyes and slightly pointed ears, but they could be anything. Such humans, whether Muggle or Wizard, have something of the Elves' innate magical capabilities.
Anyway, on to the storyline:
As the Elves began to disappear, even the Royal Family intermarried with humans, thereby preserving a "sleeping" branch of the Royal line. In the year Harry was born, a half-Elf boy was born of this bloodline. Realizing the potential of such a child to rally the House-elves and not having foreknowledge of the fall of Voldemort, Dumbledore discovered the child and hid him away. When Voldemort feel, Dumbledore knew he would return because of the Prophecy and so kept the child hidden. Now, however, with VWII in full swing, the Half-Blood Prince will be brought out from where he was hidden (presumably with a Squib or parents of a Muggleborn) and sent to Hogwarts. Before he can even realizes his potential however, he is kidnapped by Voldemort, who knows his significance, and a good part of the novel is the rescue attempt.
Okay, okay, lame idea. But it was MY THEORY first. When it's what's in HBP...
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Gerald Costales - Sep 5, 2004 6:56 pm (#1620 of 2923)
Cuivienen. Thanks for reading my posts, but I was only listing known mixes of wizards and other magical creatures. Hagrid - half giant and wizard. Fleur is a quarter-blood, a quadroon, assuming she only has one veela grandmother and three wizard grandparents. I was only saying Peter Pettigrew could be a half-blood because of his extreme shortness. If he was a half-blood, I only speculated that he was half House-elf (again to explain Peter's extreme shortness) and wizard. This did connect with my feeling that House-elves will be a force to be reckoned with during the comimg VWII because of their powerful magic. And I listed two quotes from the books to back this belief of the power of House-elf magic.
Your ideas are totally your own and I think they are interesting, intelligent, and entirely original. I'm sorry I didn't key in a cool nickname but GC will do in the future. Thanks again. Bye GC
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buggirl - Sep 5, 2004 8:39 pm (#1621 of 2923)
I have a question GC... (New to the forum) Are you saying that somehow the mirror of Erised was there when Voldemort tried to kill Harry? So he saw himself raising his wand and cursing Harry in the mirror and somehow the curse rebounded from the mirror onto himself and a part ricocheted onto Harry causing the scar? That's an interesting thought. Hhmmm.
Buggirl
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Magical Llama - Sep 5, 2004 11:32 pm (#1622 of 2923)
Hey, Lunar Tides, that is the best idea I have heard in ages
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 6:56 am (#1623 of 2923)
Hello, buggirl. I recently posted two very long posts (#1606 & 1607).
To summerize, first Godric Gryffindor is the HBP. I say that the recent excerpt of a lion-like person is a description of Gryffindor. There are arguements to support this speculation. Second, Godric is the original owner of the Mirror of Erised. Slytherin left the Chamber of Secrets. So, Gryffindor left the Mirror, the Sorting Hat and his sword. Fawkes the phoenix is reborn by fire every 500 to 600 years. Could be that Fawkes was also Gryffindor's phoenix and is now Dumbledore's. Third, (now here's the stretch) The Mirror of Erised is found or stolen by Grindelwald. Grindelwald is the Dark Wizard defeated by Dumbledore in 1945. (Grindelwald is only mentioned once on the back of a chocolate frog card.) I say Dumbledore chooses not to kill. That was why the word "defeated" is used. Grindelwald is not killed, destroyed, etc. Again, additional ideas to support this speculation. Fourth, there is speculation about the power of House-elf magic and the possibility of House-Elves allying with Wizard against Voldermort in the coming war. References from the books, etc. are used to prove why I think House-elf magic is so powerful. (House-elves use wandless magic, House-elves can apparate and disapparate in Hogwarts, etc.)
(Finally, following is the conclusion from the post #1607)
Gryffindor was the originally the Mudblood Prince. Because Mudblood is so offensive revisionist have altered it to the Half-Blood Prince. Gryffindor was an animagus that turns into a lion. Gryffindor owned the Mirror of Erised that led to the defeat of Grindelwald. (Could a spell rebound from a mirror? Probably). Dumbledore has the Mirror of Erised. And finally, the Mirror of Erised will be use it to defeat Voldermort.
Ta Ta for now. GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 7:00 am (#1624 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Hmm...JKR has become a revisionist now? With her own word?
"Because Mudblood is so offensive revisionist have altered it to the Half-Blood Prince."
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Star Crossed - Sep 6, 2004 7:15 am (#1625 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
GC, I think you're assuming too much. We don't know how often Fawkes burns, it couldn't possibly be every 500 or 600 years, because when someone did own a pet, they would not know it burnt to a crisp, then came back from the ashes. For many, it would not burn in his lifetime, but instead, keep living. Now for the odd man out, he would only see it burn once, and might assume that his pet died, and would try to chuck it. It would have to be reborn enough that people would figure out 'Oh, this is supposed to happen.' Also, we don't know if GG owned the mirror of Erised, do we?
If Mudblood was so offensive, why not change it to Muggleborn instead of completely destroying what it is? Mudblood and Half-Blood are two very different things.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 7:45 am (#1626 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes, Muggles and Wizards are the revisionists. If HBP is a historical figure then Wizard historians would soften his nickname our the years. Japanese historians were recently criticized for trying to soften Imperial Japanese actions during WWII. There are reasons historian use lables like "The Rape of Nanching", the attack on Nanching by the Japanese Imperial Army or the "The Night of Long Knives", the night Hitler goes out to kill his political enemies or "Krystalnacht", the night Jewish storefronts were broken or "The Bataan Death March", the march of American and Filipino soilders to POW camps or "The Trail of Tears", the forced relocation of Native-Americans to reservations.
If there are sad and terrible historical events even in the Wizard world. Voldemort and the killing of the Potters. The torture of the Longbottoms. There are Death Eaters probably revising Wizard history to make Voldermort look like a Wizard Hero. Sons (like Draco) and daugthers have been listening to stories of the glorious crusade of Voldermort to purify the Wizard race. To a child anicent history is anything before they were born. (I know this over the top. But, the revisionist idea I don't think is that speculative.)
gc (lowerclass to show my humility) I know I don't know everything, just go with some of the ideas. I did research most of the ideas. I read past chats by JKR, looked at other websites, and even quoted JKR book to support most of the speculations. I'm not thin skinned. I just want to generate some good ideas for good posts. Fire away. I'm a big boy. I'm also a big bored Harry Potter fan. (sigh!)
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Madame Kulich - Sep 6, 2004 8:02 am (#1627 of 2923)
GC, I thought your ideas were fantastic. If all of our ideas about the HBP, ending of the book, why VOldemort didn't die, etc. were backed up to the letter in the books, we would know all the answers, so I appreciate your and others ideas. Yours were backed up the best they could be and you added your thoughts and ideas wonderfully. I will take a look at the books with your ideas in mind and see if I can come up with anything to expand on them. Thanks for the great food for thought. MIrror of ERised owned by GG- my favorite new idea! Great one!
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 8:05 am (#1628 of 2923)
Star Crossed - Yes, you're absolutely right. We don't know the origins of the Mirror of Erised. But, it was so important and JKR used it so well. I don't think it would just vanish like a floobeworm or blast-end skwert. I did say this was the stretch part of my posts #1606 and 1607.
I know TwinklingBlueEyes was giving me a dig in post #1626. But I have some responses to my revisionist history speculation and think it's very valid. (Mostly American history references, but the WWII ones should be familiar to everyone.) Fire Away!
I knew those posts would generate some pointed responses. GC
PS Sir Nick is over 500 yr.s old (Deathday party 1492). Godric lived before or about the same time as Sir Nick. Fawkes I think could easily be owned by Godric. (I got the 500 to 600 years information from a dictionary's phoenix definition.) Also, then Hagrid got Norbert, he just checked a book from the library about dragons. If you own a Phoenix you probably know it's reborn by fire. Dumbledore apologized on Fawkes burning day in the book. A phoenix is not easily tamed so only a truly great wizard like Dumbledore or Godric Gryffindor could possibly own one. GC
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 8:35 am (#1629 of 2923)
Dalus Kulich - Thanks for reading the posts. I put quite a bit of time to make them logical. I know we all have our agendas. Right now mine are Gryffindor is the HBP and that the Mirror of Erised will be returning to the storyline. TaTa for Now. GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 8:39 am (#1630 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"I know TwinklingBlueEyes was giving me a dig in post #1626." It was not intended as a dig, but an honest response.
In my view revisionists are right down there on the list with our modern versions, ie: politically correct. I personally have no use for either.
"Muggles and Wizards are the revisionists." My point was muggles and wizards did not write the books, nor come up with the term mudblood.
I think we agree to disagree and will leave it at that. :-)
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dragon keeper - Sep 6, 2004 9:18 am (#1631 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I just wanted to say that everyone on this forum is extremely creative! It seemed as though we had discussed every possibility for the HBP and then another one pops up...
I really like the idea of the HBP being an historical figure in the book, one that we have never met before. As with Tom Riddle in CoS, HBP could be a memory used to reveal information. It would make sense to put the story of the heir of Slytherin and the heir of Griffindor in the same book, but then she had to take part of it out...
I agree with whoever (Phoenix Song?) said that we should be thinking of what the HBP could do for the story rather than who it is, it could be anyone. We could all go barking, howling mad trying to figure it out. But we could go mad trying to think of the possibilities for the plot as well...
Anyhow, KUDOS to everyone for all of your posts!! Even if I don't agree with them all, they keep me thinking.
P.S. Since no one brought it up yet, in response to Steve Newton's query about King's Cross Station being the one used (many, many posts ago: around Sept. 1st) on the JKR site, she said that her mum and dad met at King's Cross Station years ago. That may be why she chose to use it in the books. (EDIT: post #1571)
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 10:07 am (#1632 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes - I know JKR wrote the books. It was speculation and I wasn't hurt *cry* or anything. I won't use the term dig again. I've seen your posts and think they are all very good. I think as an older reading (past 45 and heading to that dreaded big #50) our experiences give us a very different view of the books.
These are children's books. But, I read them and see them entirely differently than my 12, 14, and 18 year old children do. (Still haven't got the wife to read them though.) GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 2:03 pm (#1633 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I'm 48 :-) Is no biggie, we just have different views. A dig sure wasn't intended. Have a butterbeer!
By the way, I enjoy your posts too! If I agreed with all of them it would get boring in a hurry!
Let's see, the half-blood prince, maybe one of Aberforth's goats? Naw... I think my weekend pass from St Mungo's is up.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 6, 2004 3:53 pm (#1634 of 2923)
Thanks TwinklingBlueEyes. This really isn't the place to put this post. But in response to Aberforth and goats. If, Dumbledore is a possible animagus (what animail he turns into I don't know.) Then Aberforth is an animagus that turns into a goat. Probably why he has had problems with goats. GC :-) Shegoats run it's Aberforth.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 6, 2004 3:56 pm (#1635 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Oh, that was baaaddd!
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 7, 2004 8:31 am (#1636 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
I would bet if Dumbledore was an animagus - he could probably do it with little effort - that he could change into more than one animal at will.
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Mynn - Sep 7, 2004 10:02 am (#1637 of 2923)
I think this has been discussed before, a really long time ago, but can people decide which animal they want to turn into when they become an animagus?
I can't imagine anybody wanting to be a rat or a beetle, but then I guess both have served their purpose. I don't remember, but it would be interesting if Dumbledore could become more than one animal (or even a little blue Ford Anglier) but I guess that would be more transfiguration.
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Chris. - Sep 7, 2004 10:34 am (#1638 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Mynn, no, you can't decide what animal you can turn into. It reflects your personality... I think.
I thin you can only have one form. I would like to see Dumbledore as a wise owl.
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Mynn - Sep 7, 2004 10:51 am (#1639 of 2923)
I know this is off the subject, but nice avatar Prongs, I love Fairly Odd Parents.
I didn't think you could choose your Form when you became an animagus.
So, to tie this into the half blood prince... I just don't know! There are so many theories and 'ifs', 'ands', or 'buts'. I have no idea who it is or what it is.
ACCIO HP6 The Half Blood Prince!
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Gerald Costales - Sep 7, 2004 1:16 pm (#1640 of 2923)
Got this from the JKR Chat Transcript in the Lexicon:
Question: When you turn into an Animagus, can you choose what animal you become? Or does this get "assigned" to you?
JKR: No, you can't choose. You become the animal that suits you best. Imagine the humilation when you finally transform after years of study and find thay you most closely resemble a warthog.
Don't know if this helps. GC
Seems to me if that lion-like person described in the excerpt from the HBP is an animagus, he'd turn into a lion. I still think Godric Gryffindor is the HBP and the lion-like person described in the excerpt is the HBP. GC
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Ann - Sep 8, 2004 6:18 am (#1641 of 2923)
I think Godric Gryffindor is probably a pure-blood. It would be hard to imagine Salazar Slytherin hanging out with him otherwise. But if he was royal, and he or more likely his son married a Muggle (or perhaps even a Muggle-born), their son might be a half-blood prince. Such a marriage, and the question whether such a prince could attend Hogwarts, might have explained the rift between GG and SS.
So I think the clue guy is the half blood prince, and he's likely to be Gryffindor Jr. (This would also make the glasses a bit more probable historically.)
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Gerald Costales - Sep 8, 2004 6:53 am (#1642 of 2923)
Thanks Ann, I have a different take on the Half-Blood issue. (See my posts #1606 & 1607) I don't take the Half-Blood title too literally.
The Slytherins yelled, "Weasley is our KING!", during Quidditch matches to taunt Ron. I proposed that Godric Gryffindor was originally called the "Mudblood Prince" & that over the years this nickname was changed to the more politically correct "Half-Blood Prince". Speculation of course, but "Mudblood" could be such a totally offensive term that it wouldn't be published or used in textbooks, newspapers, etc. Just a thought.
If I've read your post correctly you proposes that Godric left an hier that could be the "Half-Blood Prince". Could be? Do you have an guesses who it is? :-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 7:21 am (#1643 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GC: I like your theory that Godric could have originally been called the "Mudblood Prince" in much the same way that Dumbledore is referred to as the "champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles". (GoF, Ch. 33, pg 648, U.S. hardback edition)
I don't know that his title would have necessarily been revised, though. Perhaps he was originally called the "Half-blood Prince". We don't know that the term "Mudblood" existed in his day. The prejudice may have been more fearful and less hateful, and the term may have appeared later. Also, it may have not been the pure-blood fanatics that named him. If he were nicknamed by half-bloods and other "blood traitors", the name that they would have given him would have been less ugly. They would have called him the "Half-blood Prince" and not the "mudblood prince" because they agreed with his stance on muggle-born admittance.
The Death Eaters refer to DD as the "Champion of commoners and mudbloods" but the wizards who are not blood fanatics would refer to him as the "Champion of the people." I hope that I'm being more clear than not. I'm trying to say that we don't know that the "prince" was originally called anything other than the "half-blood prince". Also, we don't know who called him the half-blood Prince. So, maybe we shouldn't assume that his title has been revised through history.
Of course, this is also just speculation on my part, so feel free to disagree with me.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 8, 2004 7:30 am (#1644 of 2923)
I also asked if there was a Godric Jr., do you want to speculate who that could be? Maybe not important. Just asking. :-) GC
Or for that matter does anyone want to discuss the hier of Gryffindor as the Half-Blood Prince? Gryffindor could have married a royal Muggle to produce a Half-Blood Prince.
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Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 8:58 am (#1645 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I really do think that the heir of Gryffindor is Harry. I don't know if this connection is by blood (the Potters lived in Godric's Hollow) or by choice (Harry choosing the pick up GG's sword...and therefore continue to battle on his behalf) but I do think that the heir of Gryffindor is Harry. {I'm just now realizing that the initials of heir of Gryffindor is HOG...wonder if that had any bearing to the Hogwart's name?} Since JKR has said that Harry and Voldemort/Riddle are not the HBP, and I think that Harry is the heir, then it would eliminate Harry as the HBP.
Could there be a Godric, Jr.? Yes, maybe, he is the HBP. I kind of like the theory that Godric descended from a union with Merlin and a second wife, therefore Godric would be a half-blood. (Just speculation of course.)
I haven't concentrated too much on who I think that the HBP will be. He could be a completely new character from the vast imagination of JKR. I don't want to waste too much energy trying to figure out who this person may be since I don't think that we've met them yet.
I have concentrated a lot of brain energy to deciding what I think that the HBP will bring to the story. I think that it will be: an adult, who will either add some central information/history to pull all of the puzzle pieces together and help Harry to make the correct choices; or, it will be a strong wizard who will help the Order to accomplish their goals. On the second choice I envision someone similar to Mad Eye Moody. On the first choice I see Godric Gryffindor acting through a memory to deliver information or counsel.
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Ann - Sep 8, 2004 10:42 am (#1646 of 2923)
I don't quite understand why the "Mud-blood" Prince you propose would have been inaccurately called a Half-blood Prince, when there is a perfectly good, non-pejorative, and accurate term, the Muggle-born Prince, which could have been used.
Since JKR says the "Half Blood Prince" is a strand of the story that she might have introduced in Book 2, but is now finally using in Book 6, he probably isn't a living character. It is hard to imagine taking a new character who has an important enough role to be the title character out of a plot without destroying the whole thing. (How could you extract Sirius from PoA, for example?) Suppose she yanked a Half-Blood Prince who was DADA professor in CoS and inserted Lockhart: Harry learned nothing in his 2nd year DADA course and it was really a side-line to the story (can you imagine Book 2 being named after Lockhart?), and he really needs to learn a lot in his 6th year, so I don't think the same guy would do.
An historical character, probably related to Gryffindor and/or the departure of Slytherin from Hogwarts (or even Slytherin himself?), would have fit in well with the plot of CoS, perhaps throwing more light on why Slytherin felt it necessary to build the Chamber of Secrets. But JKR obviously felt that presenting that particular back-story/strand of the plot at that point would give us too much information that would be much better if it were introduced later. (Or, it may simply have been a matter of length--remember, she wasn't a literary star when CoS went to press; he publishers would never have taken a 700 or 800 page book at that point.)
As for who the Heir of Gryffindor might be, I think he's a new character, the guy in the clue, and probably a lion animagus. But I think, for the reasons I've explained, that if he's the HBP, he's historical. Or I suppose he could conceivably be a new living character who plays the role of introducing a lot of that historical information.
(I don't think Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor, because of the fact that choices are supposed to be more important than ancestry, and because it seems too tritely symmetrical to satisfy JKR. It would reduce the whole series to a battle of the Heirs, and reduce the power of Harry and Voldemort as individuals who made different choices.)
Sorry to go on for so long....
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Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 1:07 pm (#1647 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Ann: Do you think it's possible that the Heir of Gryffindor would be someone who has chosen to stand in for GG? In a duel, the duelists have "seconds" who will stand in for them if they are unable to continue the duel. As a blood relative, Voldemort has chosen to take up the mantle of what he considers to be Slytherin's "noble work" and will duel this final battle in his place. He did not have to choose to continue SS's feelings on this matter. He believed the same way as SS and chose to be his "second" of sorts. His blood relation did not "force" him to accept this battle, he chose to do it.
In the same manner, I see Harry as taking up the mantle of GG. He has chosen to do this. I think that in choosing not to be sorted in Slytherin, in choosing to go to rescue Ginny, in choosing to grasp the handle of that sword, in choosing to teach others to defend themselves against the dark arts, that Harry has in essence chosen to be GG's "second". I see this as becoming the Heir of Gryffindor even if there is no blood relation involved. Adoptive children are just as entitled to the family legacy as the "natural born" children. Harry has adopted the legacy of GG with regards to: teaching all with magical abilities; befriending members of other species; and protecting the welfare of others. I say that he has accepted the adoption of himself into the Gryffindor family regardless of blood, as choice wins out over blood. As Dumbledore said at the end of CoS in reference to Godric Gryffindor's sword: "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry." (CoS, Ch. 18, pg. 334, U.S. Ed. hardback)
Barbie
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haymoni - Sep 8, 2004 1:27 pm (#1648 of 2923)
But Harry wasn't questioning his blood line. He was questioning his House assignment. Thus the quote from Dumbledore.
I do agree with your other statements though. Harry has picked up the fight. I still think he'll be related to Gryffindor.
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Star Crossed - Sep 8, 2004 1:28 pm (#1649 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Haymoni, what point would it make for him to be heir though? We know JKR only does things for a reason, so what would that reason be?
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Julie Aronson - Sep 8, 2004 2:28 pm (#1650 of 2923)
Phoenix:
Check out the "What's in a name" link all the way at the bottom of the list--I was daydreaming in Anglo-Saxon class yesterday and had an epiphany about the Heir of Gryffindor.
I'd love your take on it!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1650 to 1700)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:25 am
Phoenix song - Sep 8, 2004 3:52 pm (#1651 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Haymoni: I wasn't questioning Harry's bloodline. I was responding to an earlier post. I'm saying that I don't necessarilly believe that Harry has to have a direct bloodline from Godric Gryffindor to be the Heir of Gryffindor. I think that being the heir, from GG's point of view, might be in choosing to pick up his battle.
Star Crossed: I think that JKR would see it as a nice balance to have an heir from each side finishing out the original battle that divided Hogwarts.
Julie Aronson: I checked out your thread. It's interesting. I've responded to it on that thread so that I wouldn't be too far off topic! Go see, please!
Barbie
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haymoni - Sep 8, 2004 4:48 pm (#1652 of 2923)
I agree with Phoenix on the balance thing.
But I'm vaguely remembering a quote where JKR hedged on the Heir of Gryffindor - another one of her "you'll have to wait and see" answers, which makes me think that there is something there. Plus the obvious reference to Godric's Hollow.
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buggirl - Sep 8, 2004 10:12 pm (#1653 of 2923)
Ok well I have nothing to back this up, but here's my guess at the HBP... What if the HBP is Fierenze??? You know prince of the centaurs. He certainly has more compassion on the wizards than the other centaurs. Is this because he is part wizard??? He is certainly regal and obviously important, since he will be around in book 6. He was introduced in book 1, and more could have been included in book 2 about him and then edited out. I can't find my book 1 anywhere or I would look up his introduction and see if there were any clues to his parentage or being royal. He certainly was important to the forest in that his presence kept it safe for humans. Once he was gone the other centaurs had no patience for humans. Perhaps he was a leader and had some degree of control over them? Anyway that's my guess.
Buggirl
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Gerald Costales - Sep 9, 2004 4:46 am (#1654 of 2923)
This is like an old detetive movie. But, the list for the HBP includes almost anyone. JRK has only eliminated Harry and Voldermort. Anyone like Frienze can be considered because we have so little background on the minor figures in the story.
And there is always the possibility of a Mr. X ,that is a new person coming into the story to be the HBP. Luna was just introduced in Book 5. For all we know the HBP could be her father, again because of the lack of background information.
Buggirl at this point your speculation is as good as anyone elses. Until JKR gives us more information on Book 6, we just need to keep searching.
And I find the posts here interesting, informative and fun. I must say the recents posts seem really excellent. I think everyone has come up with some excellent ideas. Keep posting, I know I'll be reading and putting in my two knuts. Just waiting for Book 6, but til then you'll be finding me here. :-) GC
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ruthlesspenguin - Sep 9, 2004 5:03 am (#1655 of 2923)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Pheonix and Haymoni, I take the opposite view. I think it would be against the whole choices are more important than abilities theme for Harry to be a blood descendent of Gryffindor. In fact I think the Heir of Gryffindor idea will turn out to be a bigger red-herring than Mark Evans and the role of the Half-Blood Prince will be to reveal this.
At the beginning of book 6 (according to my theory) Harry will be told about the Half-Blood Prince, the son of Godric Gryffindor and a muggle, who was the cause of the Slytherin-Gryffindor split. Slytherin, unable to accept a future king with muggle blood, decided to kill the child, and is generally believed to have succeeded. Overcome with grief wife-of-Gryffindor leaves Hogwarts, while Gryffindor devotes the rest of his life to converting Hogwarts into a school open to all with magical talent.
However, there is also a legend that Slytherin did not in fact manage to kill the boy, who was smuggled out of the castle and brought up as a muggle, never to be heard of again. Some time after hearing this story Harry sees a picture (pensieve, portrait...) of the boy, and he has green eyes. Much of the book is then spent with HRH under the belief that Harry is a descendent of Gryffindor.
At the end of the books however, it is revealed that wife-of-Gryffindor remarried after leaving Hogwarts, and it is from her that Harry is actually descended. I know its all a guess, but it is the best idea I could come up with to answer the question as to what a Half-Blood Prince could add to the story, that didn't contradict my belief that he is a relative of Gryffindor and Harry is not and to some extent fitted in with the events of Cos.
<(')
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haymoni - Sep 9, 2004 6:36 am (#1656 of 2923)
Well, as I still think the Half Blood Prince is Hagrid, I'm having a hard time with this.
Just because there was an Heir of Slytherin doesn't mean that there is an Heir of Gryffindor. I agree with whomever said it earlier - by his decisions to take action when necessary (or when faced with no other option) Harry has taken up the mantle - he has become all that could be expected of him and has become the Heir of all that is Good, if not the Heir of Gryffindor.
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Madame Pomfrey - Sep 9, 2004 10:31 am (#1657 of 2923)
Hi I'm new to the post and thought I'd put in my two knuts.I agree that the new clue is describing G.G or heir of.We already know that the excerpt describes the HBP due to the fact that JKR said she voted on "Who's the half blood prince?" on the Mugglenet poll.I went to the site and the poll read "Who do you think the new excerpt is describing?" not Who is the HBP. The new clue has many lion-like qualities suggesting the symbol of Gryffindor.It may be true that there may not be a G.G. heir but only if the Gryffindor lineage ended.I guess we will all be racking our brains until book 6 comes out.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 9, 2004 10:50 am (#1658 of 2923)
Currently my vote would be for Godric Gryffindor or his heir as HBP. But, there's a small part of me also rooting for Hagrid and I'd be happy if by chance it would turn out to be him. The dark horse is possibly Lupin. JKR recently revealed him as a half-blood and again we have so little background on him. But, I agree let's keep racking our brains until Book 6 comes out. :-) GC
I've only reread the books once, though. :-)
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 9, 2004 10:54 am (#1659 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
ruthlesspenguin I like it...perhaps Gryffindor's wife was Slytherins sister??
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buggirl - Sep 9, 2004 11:00 am (#1660 of 2923)
ooohhh Madam Pomfrey that is a good point. I was also a little confused when I visited her site and then went to see what the vote was and didn't find a poll for who is the HBP.
Buggirl
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Muggleborn - Sep 9, 2004 11:46 am (#1661 of 2923)
What life is all about!
Madame Pomfrey - I also went to Mugglenet and there was a poll listed under previous polls which asked "Who's the Half-Blood prince?" It looks like the majority voted that the Half-Blood Prince is a new person.
I think that the discription on JKR's site is G.G. but the Half-Blood Prince is someone we have yet to meet. I still do not have an idea as to who that is, however.
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Madame Pomfrey - Sep 9, 2004 12:05 pm (#1662 of 2923)
I didn't realize there was a "Who's the HBP?" on the previous polls.I just looked at the most recent poll which is on the main page to the right of the screen.Hmmm.I thought I found something."SIGH"
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Muggleborn - Sep 9, 2004 12:17 pm (#1663 of 2923)
What life is all about!
That's OK don't worry too much. If you go back to the site, look just below the poll and you will see a link to Previous Polls. It gives the results of all of their past polls.
I keep getting all these ideas in my head, but they keep changing as I read all the wonderful ideas here.
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siliconsmiley - Sep 9, 2004 1:13 pm (#1664 of 2923)
I haven't been very concerned with exactly who the HBP is. My interest in book 6 is what caused the rift between G.G. and S.S. The Sorting Hat said that they were great friends when Hogwarts was first founded.
Assuming that the issue that caused the breach was pure blood mania, how did this come about? What caused Sytherin's change of heart?
I don't have any answers really. I just have questions. But I'm feeling that this issue will have to be addressed in HBP. This could be the clue from Chamber. Harry learned that S.S. created the Chamber and left the school because of what amounts to a difference of opinions, but we don't understand why this happened. Voldemort harness the hatred created by pure blood mania to achieve his ends. It follows that Harry should learn more about this in order to combat Voldemort's support.
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Ann - Sep 9, 2004 3:20 pm (#1665 of 2923)
I just searched the quotes link on the Lexicon for "Heir of Gryffindor," and when you disallow soundalikes (Harry apparently sounds like heir), absolutely nothing comes up. Which (I think) means JKR hasn't said anything about Gryffindor's heir. I agree that in many ways, Harry has indeed, by his choices, taken on the mantle and sword of Gryffindor to fight the heir of Slytherin, but I think it's unlikely that JKR will use the heir title to refer to him, even metaphorically, because of the negative associations that blood (as a measure of a person) and inheritance have in the series.
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Chris. - Sep 9, 2004 4:03 pm (#1666 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Here is a quote from the World Book Day chat, 2004:
Jami: Is Harry related to Godric Gryffindor?
JK Rowling replies -> People are always wondering who Harry might be related to. Maybe he is
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Ann - Sep 9, 2004 6:43 pm (#1667 of 2923)
Ah...you show the limits of my simplistic methodology!
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 10, 2004 3:38 pm (#1668 of 2923)
Hello all,
I just had a thought and I thought I'd post it to see what you think.
What if the HBP is James Potter?
I don't think the person needs to be half-blooded (half muggle and half magical that is). I think this person needs to be the champion of muggle born and half-bloods.
We know very little of James Potter. We know some things though.
He (and Lily) thrice defied Voldemort. Why? Was it because he thought it was wrong to commit genocide of the non-pure bloods? I would certainly think Lily would be strongly against the prejudice from her description in OotP. He was in the Order of the Phoenix with Lily so that would probably put them in harms way somehow. I wonder what happened with those encounters.
He and Lily had a bunch of money. Why? Was the money something to do with being "royalty"?
James and Lily died in Godric's Hollow. We all know GG was opposed to SS because of the pure-blood issue. That implies that James had a connection to GG.
I thought this might be interesting to consider. I know I don't have all the data to really think through this idea but I thought I'd toss it out and see what happened.
Betelgeuse
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 10, 2004 3:46 pm (#1669 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I think that is a very pregnant idea...toddles off to think.
10 points to your house for creative thinking!
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hellocello3200 - Sep 10, 2004 6:34 pm (#1670 of 2923)
Betelguse, that is a interesting idea. HBP may mean Prince of halfbloods. It could be anyone now though.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 10, 2004 9:18 pm (#1671 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
The history of James amd family, and the rest of the WW would be nice, and very good idea behind the theme of the Half-Blood Prince.
I like it!
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remiden - Sep 12, 2004 7:39 am (#1672 of 2923)
Betelguse, that is one of the best theories I have heard yet. JKR has kept secret how James and Lily got their money, and what their occupations were, and should he be a prince of some sort, that would fit snug.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 12, 2004 12:48 pm (#1673 of 2923)
A theory that I have never heard before, but a very plausible one. JKR has said that Harry is not the HBP so if James Potter was the HBP then by default the title would have passed down to harry, the reason I say this is that HBP sounds like a title (not just of the book)and most titles are passed down from farther to son.
Just a though what do you think?
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 12, 2004 1:49 pm (#1674 of 2923)
I guess the whole idea came from looking at the story and trying to get a feel for where the holes in our knowledge are. Harry has been at Hogwarts for 5 years and he still doesn't know his parent's story. That bugs me and I smell an important story line.
If James Potter were to turn out to be the HBP, he could pass the title to Harry. I don't think the title "Half-Blood Prince" is something that would be official. Maybe James was a prince of sorts and he earned the nickname of the HBP.
From what we know about the characters, I'd say that Lily Potter was the most likely person to champion against prejudice. The only problem with that is it isn't the HB Princess. ;-) Hagrid has said that he's like his dad and he can give no higher praise than that. I took that to mean that he's courageous and quick thinking. Maybe he is saying that he is acting like royalty. (I can dream, can't I? )
I'm going to have to check in the books for the times that James and Lily are talked about.
Thanks for the nice comments. Betegeuse
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sjcuk13 - Sep 12, 2004 2:31 pm (#1675 of 2923)
Ok I guess the big question here is. Do the magical world have royalty?
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Mynn - Sep 12, 2004 3:17 pm (#1676 of 2923)
It wouldn't surprise me, after all they have ministers and government.
And even if they don't 'officially' have royalty, hasn't Draco essentially crowned himself a little prince? He THINKS he's royalty, whether he is or not.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 12, 2004 4:10 pm (#1677 of 2923)
Royalty is based on the whole Divine Right of Kings way of thinking that has been around for a long time. It is possible that when the magical world separated itself, it took part of the royal line (of England I'm assuming) with it. Say a king has two sons and on is magical and the other is not. The wizard might start a whole other line. maybe he is the HBP. I really didn't mean to get into that I was trying to say that I doubt wizards have royalty but oh well....
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remiden - Sep 12, 2004 5:35 pm (#1678 of 2923)
Assuming that James Potter is the HBP, and the title did pass to Harry, JKR saying that Harry is not the HPB may not be incorrect. She could be speaking of James, if she is referred to him as the HBP during the book, then she could say that Harry is not the HBP and use a bit of deception to throw everyone off. It is possible that some death eaters teased, or referred to James Potter as Half Blood Potter, and Lily or the order responded by calling him Half Blood Prince. Now that is really reaching for something isn't it!
Remiden hopes to get alot of chocolate frogs during his stay in St Mungo's*
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 12, 2004 5:48 pm (#1679 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I got the chocolate frogs covered, thoughh it is hard to open and catch them with that funny fitting "uniform" on ;-)
I really like the idea of James and his background being the HBP, I think it fits the storyline so far well.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 12, 2004 8:18 pm (#1680 of 2923)
How about the "Mudblood Prince"? See my post #1644 for my take on the "Half-Blood Prince". Similiar but not quite the same. : - ) GC
Again, my vote is still for Godric Gryffindor for the Half-Blood Prince.
PS Talking about a prince do a search on Vlad the Impaler or Prince Vlad III.
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riddikulus - Sep 12, 2004 10:29 pm (#1681 of 2923)
The Mirror of Erised: I show not your face but your hearts desire.
I think the mirror was useful to help Harry concerning the stone... it helped him against Voldy, once...to an extent. I don't see how it's going to help him in future endeavors with Voldy. Can you specify how you think the mirror will be used?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 5:00 am (#1682 of 2923)
The Mirror helped Harry solve a problem in Book 1. If Harry came across it again, why couldn't he use the Mirror to solve another problem in either Books 6 and/or 7. The Mirror is a riddle that can be used to solve other riddles/problems. Its been years since I took logic, but look at the situation abstractly, if A then B, etc.
Don't know if you wanted me to respond but I hope it helped. :-) GC
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sjcuk13 - Sep 13, 2004 5:25 am (#1683 of 2923)
I think I got lost here where did the Mirror of Erised come into the conversation?
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riddikulus - Sep 13, 2004 6:51 am (#1684 of 2923)
Gerald, I agree with you... it could and probably will come into play.... what I just don't get is how it's going to be used to defeat Voldy. Unless I'm missing what was suggested. Perhaps there was only a suggestion it would come into play, not be the source of his ultimate demise. Therefore, disregard this if that's the issue.
I think, more importantly than the MoE, will be the Mirror Sirius gave to Harry. I believe he'll find bigger desires in that one.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 7:36 am (#1685 of 2923)
Riddikulus (re: your posts #1683 & 86)
You might want check the Mirror thread. My post #93 on the Mirror thread has more ideas on the Mirror of Erised. Thanks for the response. :-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 13, 2004 7:39 am (#1686 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Riddikulus: I agree with you completely! Although I'm sure that the Mirror of Erised will come into use again, I don't see it as being as important as it was before. The Erised Mirror has been used before to help defeat Voldemort, and I don't see her using the same item in the same way again.
I think that Sirius' mirror will be much more important. JKR said that it would be used in the future books, and there has been a lot of speculation about its possible uses. I think that the mirror thread has a lot of thoughts on both mirrors.
Barbie
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Julie Aronson - Sep 13, 2004 8:17 am (#1687 of 2923)
I thought that Harry broke Sirius' mirror at the end of OotP. Was it magically repaired (reparo'ed?) "Harry remained quite still for a moment, then hurled the mirror back into the trunk where it shattered." (OotP, US, pg 858)
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Phoenix song - Sep 13, 2004 8:23 am (#1688 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Julie: Harry did break the mirror, but we don't know that it can't be used again. JKR has said that he would use it again, (possibly in HBP). It can probably be repaired, but also remember that the foe glass was used again by the DA's. It was also cracked.
Harry did not throw the mirror away, he still has the pieces within his trunk.
Barbie
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Julie Aronson - Sep 13, 2004 8:24 am (#1689 of 2923)
Barbie:
OK...
Julie
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Mynn - Sep 13, 2004 9:11 am (#1690 of 2923)
Hermoine repaired Harry's glasses when they were broken in COS, after using Floo poweder for the first time. Maybe Harry will think about it later and decide that maybe the mirror will still be useful. Alot of people will speculate he will use the mirror to contact Sirius, but I don't think Siruius would have had the mirror with him. But maybe Harry will use it in another way. There's a lot that can happen. There are a lot of options.
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Phoenix song - Sep 13, 2004 9:50 am (#1691 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Mynn: There are a lot of theories regarding Harry's glasses and Sirius' mirror. You may want to check out the "Harry's glasses" and the "Mirror" thread. There are many great ideas that can be better discussed over there.
However, it actually was Mr. Weasley that repaired Harry's glasses in the CoS. "Mr. Weasley took Harry's glasses, gave them a tap of his wand, and returned them, good as new." (CoS, Ch 4, pg 56, U.S. ed.) Hermione only repaired them in the movie version.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 10:53 am (#1692 of 2923)
The Mirror thread has dealt with the Mirror of Erised and Sirius's mirror and other mirrors too.
Again, my for the Half-Blood Prince is Godric Gryffindor. Unless are other Princes that we haven't thought about. Prince William anyone. :-) GC
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remiden - Sep 13, 2004 12:48 pm (#1693 of 2923)
I never did understand why in CoS harry gets in trouble for using magic, then Hermonie does not. Maybe the HBP told on him!
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sjcuk13 - Sep 13, 2004 1:00 pm (#1694 of 2923)
I have just been reading the questions and answers on JKR.com on answering a question on the HBP JKR said that a question she couldn't answer was "What does HBP mean?" this got me thinking on what could it mean? Rather then being a person could it be a group of people or an object?
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Steve Newton - Sep 13, 2004 1:09 pm (#1695 of 2923)
Librarian
sjcuk13,
I like your direction, but, I can't see how it could be a group of people using any definition of 'prince' that I know of.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 13, 2004 1:12 pm (#1696 of 2923)
I agree probably not but it is just the way the question is worded I would assume a half blood prince would be a prince who is half blood, but if that's not what it means. Then what does it mean?
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flyingwill - Sep 13, 2004 2:07 pm (#1697 of 2923)
I think that I saw J.K.Rowling saying that it was neither Harry nor Voldemort. I might be the future defence against the dark art teacher. I think I've read an interview in which J.K.Rowling said that he was going to be the DADA teacher the two last books.
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Star Crossed - Sep 13, 2004 2:22 pm (#1698 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
He who, flyingwill?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 5:18 pm (#1699 of 2923)
reposted from the Vampire thread.
. . . . . . Transylvannia by the way is in Romania. Any speculation on Charlie W. running across Vamipires in Romania. Final thought, Dracula is the "Prince of Darkness" could he be or another Vampire be the "Half-Blood Prince" of Darkness. Where's the garlic when you need. ;-) GC
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tracie1976 - Sep 13, 2004 5:49 pm (#1700 of 2923)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Unconfirmed reports on Mugglenet are reporting that JKR says Hagrid is not the HBP.
Hagrid: not the HBP? Two separate MuggleNet readers have written in to say that JK Rowling ruled out Hagrid as a possible Half-Blood Prince candidate at the Edinburgh book reading last August. She revealed this to both readers independently after being asked in the book tent. Thanks, Glenn and Bridget, for sharing this with us!
Note that we cannot say with 100% accuracy this is true, but both readers had UK-based IP addresses and solid alibis. Consider this a good rumor, but not yet a fact.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Haymoni: I wasn't questioning Harry's bloodline. I was responding to an earlier post. I'm saying that I don't necessarilly believe that Harry has to have a direct bloodline from Godric Gryffindor to be the Heir of Gryffindor. I think that being the heir, from GG's point of view, might be in choosing to pick up his battle.
Star Crossed: I think that JKR would see it as a nice balance to have an heir from each side finishing out the original battle that divided Hogwarts.
Julie Aronson: I checked out your thread. It's interesting. I've responded to it on that thread so that I wouldn't be too far off topic! Go see, please!
Barbie
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haymoni - Sep 8, 2004 4:48 pm (#1652 of 2923)
I agree with Phoenix on the balance thing.
But I'm vaguely remembering a quote where JKR hedged on the Heir of Gryffindor - another one of her "you'll have to wait and see" answers, which makes me think that there is something there. Plus the obvious reference to Godric's Hollow.
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buggirl - Sep 8, 2004 10:12 pm (#1653 of 2923)
Ok well I have nothing to back this up, but here's my guess at the HBP... What if the HBP is Fierenze??? You know prince of the centaurs. He certainly has more compassion on the wizards than the other centaurs. Is this because he is part wizard??? He is certainly regal and obviously important, since he will be around in book 6. He was introduced in book 1, and more could have been included in book 2 about him and then edited out. I can't find my book 1 anywhere or I would look up his introduction and see if there were any clues to his parentage or being royal. He certainly was important to the forest in that his presence kept it safe for humans. Once he was gone the other centaurs had no patience for humans. Perhaps he was a leader and had some degree of control over them? Anyway that's my guess.
Buggirl
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Gerald Costales - Sep 9, 2004 4:46 am (#1654 of 2923)
This is like an old detetive movie. But, the list for the HBP includes almost anyone. JRK has only eliminated Harry and Voldermort. Anyone like Frienze can be considered because we have so little background on the minor figures in the story.
And there is always the possibility of a Mr. X ,that is a new person coming into the story to be the HBP. Luna was just introduced in Book 5. For all we know the HBP could be her father, again because of the lack of background information.
Buggirl at this point your speculation is as good as anyone elses. Until JKR gives us more information on Book 6, we just need to keep searching.
And I find the posts here interesting, informative and fun. I must say the recents posts seem really excellent. I think everyone has come up with some excellent ideas. Keep posting, I know I'll be reading and putting in my two knuts. Just waiting for Book 6, but til then you'll be finding me here. :-) GC
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ruthlesspenguin - Sep 9, 2004 5:03 am (#1655 of 2923)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Pheonix and Haymoni, I take the opposite view. I think it would be against the whole choices are more important than abilities theme for Harry to be a blood descendent of Gryffindor. In fact I think the Heir of Gryffindor idea will turn out to be a bigger red-herring than Mark Evans and the role of the Half-Blood Prince will be to reveal this.
At the beginning of book 6 (according to my theory) Harry will be told about the Half-Blood Prince, the son of Godric Gryffindor and a muggle, who was the cause of the Slytherin-Gryffindor split. Slytherin, unable to accept a future king with muggle blood, decided to kill the child, and is generally believed to have succeeded. Overcome with grief wife-of-Gryffindor leaves Hogwarts, while Gryffindor devotes the rest of his life to converting Hogwarts into a school open to all with magical talent.
However, there is also a legend that Slytherin did not in fact manage to kill the boy, who was smuggled out of the castle and brought up as a muggle, never to be heard of again. Some time after hearing this story Harry sees a picture (pensieve, portrait...) of the boy, and he has green eyes. Much of the book is then spent with HRH under the belief that Harry is a descendent of Gryffindor.
At the end of the books however, it is revealed that wife-of-Gryffindor remarried after leaving Hogwarts, and it is from her that Harry is actually descended. I know its all a guess, but it is the best idea I could come up with to answer the question as to what a Half-Blood Prince could add to the story, that didn't contradict my belief that he is a relative of Gryffindor and Harry is not and to some extent fitted in with the events of Cos.
<(')
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haymoni - Sep 9, 2004 6:36 am (#1656 of 2923)
Well, as I still think the Half Blood Prince is Hagrid, I'm having a hard time with this.
Just because there was an Heir of Slytherin doesn't mean that there is an Heir of Gryffindor. I agree with whomever said it earlier - by his decisions to take action when necessary (or when faced with no other option) Harry has taken up the mantle - he has become all that could be expected of him and has become the Heir of all that is Good, if not the Heir of Gryffindor.
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Madame Pomfrey - Sep 9, 2004 10:31 am (#1657 of 2923)
Hi I'm new to the post and thought I'd put in my two knuts.I agree that the new clue is describing G.G or heir of.We already know that the excerpt describes the HBP due to the fact that JKR said she voted on "Who's the half blood prince?" on the Mugglenet poll.I went to the site and the poll read "Who do you think the new excerpt is describing?" not Who is the HBP. The new clue has many lion-like qualities suggesting the symbol of Gryffindor.It may be true that there may not be a G.G. heir but only if the Gryffindor lineage ended.I guess we will all be racking our brains until book 6 comes out.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 9, 2004 10:50 am (#1658 of 2923)
Currently my vote would be for Godric Gryffindor or his heir as HBP. But, there's a small part of me also rooting for Hagrid and I'd be happy if by chance it would turn out to be him. The dark horse is possibly Lupin. JKR recently revealed him as a half-blood and again we have so little background on him. But, I agree let's keep racking our brains until Book 6 comes out. :-) GC
I've only reread the books once, though. :-)
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Richard !!!Reid - Sep 9, 2004 10:54 am (#1659 of 2923)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] opens on the 13th of November at 9pm GTM
ruthlesspenguin I like it...perhaps Gryffindor's wife was Slytherins sister??
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buggirl - Sep 9, 2004 11:00 am (#1660 of 2923)
ooohhh Madam Pomfrey that is a good point. I was also a little confused when I visited her site and then went to see what the vote was and didn't find a poll for who is the HBP.
Buggirl
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Muggleborn - Sep 9, 2004 11:46 am (#1661 of 2923)
What life is all about!
Madame Pomfrey - I also went to Mugglenet and there was a poll listed under previous polls which asked "Who's the Half-Blood prince?" It looks like the majority voted that the Half-Blood Prince is a new person.
I think that the discription on JKR's site is G.G. but the Half-Blood Prince is someone we have yet to meet. I still do not have an idea as to who that is, however.
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Madame Pomfrey - Sep 9, 2004 12:05 pm (#1662 of 2923)
I didn't realize there was a "Who's the HBP?" on the previous polls.I just looked at the most recent poll which is on the main page to the right of the screen.Hmmm.I thought I found something."SIGH"
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Muggleborn - Sep 9, 2004 12:17 pm (#1663 of 2923)
What life is all about!
That's OK don't worry too much. If you go back to the site, look just below the poll and you will see a link to Previous Polls. It gives the results of all of their past polls.
I keep getting all these ideas in my head, but they keep changing as I read all the wonderful ideas here.
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siliconsmiley - Sep 9, 2004 1:13 pm (#1664 of 2923)
I haven't been very concerned with exactly who the HBP is. My interest in book 6 is what caused the rift between G.G. and S.S. The Sorting Hat said that they were great friends when Hogwarts was first founded.
Assuming that the issue that caused the breach was pure blood mania, how did this come about? What caused Sytherin's change of heart?
I don't have any answers really. I just have questions. But I'm feeling that this issue will have to be addressed in HBP. This could be the clue from Chamber. Harry learned that S.S. created the Chamber and left the school because of what amounts to a difference of opinions, but we don't understand why this happened. Voldemort harness the hatred created by pure blood mania to achieve his ends. It follows that Harry should learn more about this in order to combat Voldemort's support.
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Ann - Sep 9, 2004 3:20 pm (#1665 of 2923)
I just searched the quotes link on the Lexicon for "Heir of Gryffindor," and when you disallow soundalikes (Harry apparently sounds like heir), absolutely nothing comes up. Which (I think) means JKR hasn't said anything about Gryffindor's heir. I agree that in many ways, Harry has indeed, by his choices, taken on the mantle and sword of Gryffindor to fight the heir of Slytherin, but I think it's unlikely that JKR will use the heir title to refer to him, even metaphorically, because of the negative associations that blood (as a measure of a person) and inheritance have in the series.
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Chris. - Sep 9, 2004 4:03 pm (#1666 of 2923)
HBP: 16th July 2005: the most anticipated day in history
Here is a quote from the World Book Day chat, 2004:
Jami: Is Harry related to Godric Gryffindor?
JK Rowling replies -> People are always wondering who Harry might be related to. Maybe he is
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Ann - Sep 9, 2004 6:43 pm (#1667 of 2923)
Ah...you show the limits of my simplistic methodology!
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 10, 2004 3:38 pm (#1668 of 2923)
Hello all,
I just had a thought and I thought I'd post it to see what you think.
What if the HBP is James Potter?
I don't think the person needs to be half-blooded (half muggle and half magical that is). I think this person needs to be the champion of muggle born and half-bloods.
We know very little of James Potter. We know some things though.
He (and Lily) thrice defied Voldemort. Why? Was it because he thought it was wrong to commit genocide of the non-pure bloods? I would certainly think Lily would be strongly against the prejudice from her description in OotP. He was in the Order of the Phoenix with Lily so that would probably put them in harms way somehow. I wonder what happened with those encounters.
He and Lily had a bunch of money. Why? Was the money something to do with being "royalty"?
James and Lily died in Godric's Hollow. We all know GG was opposed to SS because of the pure-blood issue. That implies that James had a connection to GG.
I thought this might be interesting to consider. I know I don't have all the data to really think through this idea but I thought I'd toss it out and see what happened.
Betelgeuse
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 10, 2004 3:46 pm (#1669 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I think that is a very pregnant idea...toddles off to think.
10 points to your house for creative thinking!
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hellocello3200 - Sep 10, 2004 6:34 pm (#1670 of 2923)
Betelguse, that is a interesting idea. HBP may mean Prince of halfbloods. It could be anyone now though.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 10, 2004 9:18 pm (#1671 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
The history of James amd family, and the rest of the WW would be nice, and very good idea behind the theme of the Half-Blood Prince.
I like it!
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remiden - Sep 12, 2004 7:39 am (#1672 of 2923)
Betelguse, that is one of the best theories I have heard yet. JKR has kept secret how James and Lily got their money, and what their occupations were, and should he be a prince of some sort, that would fit snug.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 12, 2004 12:48 pm (#1673 of 2923)
A theory that I have never heard before, but a very plausible one. JKR has said that Harry is not the HBP so if James Potter was the HBP then by default the title would have passed down to harry, the reason I say this is that HBP sounds like a title (not just of the book)and most titles are passed down from farther to son.
Just a though what do you think?
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 12, 2004 1:49 pm (#1674 of 2923)
I guess the whole idea came from looking at the story and trying to get a feel for where the holes in our knowledge are. Harry has been at Hogwarts for 5 years and he still doesn't know his parent's story. That bugs me and I smell an important story line.
If James Potter were to turn out to be the HBP, he could pass the title to Harry. I don't think the title "Half-Blood Prince" is something that would be official. Maybe James was a prince of sorts and he earned the nickname of the HBP.
From what we know about the characters, I'd say that Lily Potter was the most likely person to champion against prejudice. The only problem with that is it isn't the HB Princess. ;-) Hagrid has said that he's like his dad and he can give no higher praise than that. I took that to mean that he's courageous and quick thinking. Maybe he is saying that he is acting like royalty. (I can dream, can't I? )
I'm going to have to check in the books for the times that James and Lily are talked about.
Thanks for the nice comments. Betegeuse
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sjcuk13 - Sep 12, 2004 2:31 pm (#1675 of 2923)
Ok I guess the big question here is. Do the magical world have royalty?
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Mynn - Sep 12, 2004 3:17 pm (#1676 of 2923)
It wouldn't surprise me, after all they have ministers and government.
And even if they don't 'officially' have royalty, hasn't Draco essentially crowned himself a little prince? He THINKS he's royalty, whether he is or not.
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hellocello3200 - Sep 12, 2004 4:10 pm (#1677 of 2923)
Royalty is based on the whole Divine Right of Kings way of thinking that has been around for a long time. It is possible that when the magical world separated itself, it took part of the royal line (of England I'm assuming) with it. Say a king has two sons and on is magical and the other is not. The wizard might start a whole other line. maybe he is the HBP. I really didn't mean to get into that I was trying to say that I doubt wizards have royalty but oh well....
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remiden - Sep 12, 2004 5:35 pm (#1678 of 2923)
Assuming that James Potter is the HBP, and the title did pass to Harry, JKR saying that Harry is not the HPB may not be incorrect. She could be speaking of James, if she is referred to him as the HBP during the book, then she could say that Harry is not the HBP and use a bit of deception to throw everyone off. It is possible that some death eaters teased, or referred to James Potter as Half Blood Potter, and Lily or the order responded by calling him Half Blood Prince. Now that is really reaching for something isn't it!
Remiden hopes to get alot of chocolate frogs during his stay in St Mungo's*
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 12, 2004 5:48 pm (#1679 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I got the chocolate frogs covered, thoughh it is hard to open and catch them with that funny fitting "uniform" on ;-)
I really like the idea of James and his background being the HBP, I think it fits the storyline so far well.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 12, 2004 8:18 pm (#1680 of 2923)
How about the "Mudblood Prince"? See my post #1644 for my take on the "Half-Blood Prince". Similiar but not quite the same. : - ) GC
Again, my vote is still for Godric Gryffindor for the Half-Blood Prince.
PS Talking about a prince do a search on Vlad the Impaler or Prince Vlad III.
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riddikulus - Sep 12, 2004 10:29 pm (#1681 of 2923)
The Mirror of Erised: I show not your face but your hearts desire.
I think the mirror was useful to help Harry concerning the stone... it helped him against Voldy, once...to an extent. I don't see how it's going to help him in future endeavors with Voldy. Can you specify how you think the mirror will be used?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 5:00 am (#1682 of 2923)
The Mirror helped Harry solve a problem in Book 1. If Harry came across it again, why couldn't he use the Mirror to solve another problem in either Books 6 and/or 7. The Mirror is a riddle that can be used to solve other riddles/problems. Its been years since I took logic, but look at the situation abstractly, if A then B, etc.
Don't know if you wanted me to respond but I hope it helped. :-) GC
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sjcuk13 - Sep 13, 2004 5:25 am (#1683 of 2923)
I think I got lost here where did the Mirror of Erised come into the conversation?
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riddikulus - Sep 13, 2004 6:51 am (#1684 of 2923)
Gerald, I agree with you... it could and probably will come into play.... what I just don't get is how it's going to be used to defeat Voldy. Unless I'm missing what was suggested. Perhaps there was only a suggestion it would come into play, not be the source of his ultimate demise. Therefore, disregard this if that's the issue.
I think, more importantly than the MoE, will be the Mirror Sirius gave to Harry. I believe he'll find bigger desires in that one.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 7:36 am (#1685 of 2923)
Riddikulus (re: your posts #1683 & 86)
You might want check the Mirror thread. My post #93 on the Mirror thread has more ideas on the Mirror of Erised. Thanks for the response. :-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 13, 2004 7:39 am (#1686 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Riddikulus: I agree with you completely! Although I'm sure that the Mirror of Erised will come into use again, I don't see it as being as important as it was before. The Erised Mirror has been used before to help defeat Voldemort, and I don't see her using the same item in the same way again.
I think that Sirius' mirror will be much more important. JKR said that it would be used in the future books, and there has been a lot of speculation about its possible uses. I think that the mirror thread has a lot of thoughts on both mirrors.
Barbie
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Julie Aronson - Sep 13, 2004 8:17 am (#1687 of 2923)
I thought that Harry broke Sirius' mirror at the end of OotP. Was it magically repaired (reparo'ed?) "Harry remained quite still for a moment, then hurled the mirror back into the trunk where it shattered." (OotP, US, pg 858)
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Phoenix song - Sep 13, 2004 8:23 am (#1688 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Julie: Harry did break the mirror, but we don't know that it can't be used again. JKR has said that he would use it again, (possibly in HBP). It can probably be repaired, but also remember that the foe glass was used again by the DA's. It was also cracked.
Harry did not throw the mirror away, he still has the pieces within his trunk.
Barbie
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Julie Aronson - Sep 13, 2004 8:24 am (#1689 of 2923)
Barbie:
OK...
Julie
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Mynn - Sep 13, 2004 9:11 am (#1690 of 2923)
Hermoine repaired Harry's glasses when they were broken in COS, after using Floo poweder for the first time. Maybe Harry will think about it later and decide that maybe the mirror will still be useful. Alot of people will speculate he will use the mirror to contact Sirius, but I don't think Siruius would have had the mirror with him. But maybe Harry will use it in another way. There's a lot that can happen. There are a lot of options.
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Phoenix song - Sep 13, 2004 9:50 am (#1691 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Mynn: There are a lot of theories regarding Harry's glasses and Sirius' mirror. You may want to check out the "Harry's glasses" and the "Mirror" thread. There are many great ideas that can be better discussed over there.
However, it actually was Mr. Weasley that repaired Harry's glasses in the CoS. "Mr. Weasley took Harry's glasses, gave them a tap of his wand, and returned them, good as new." (CoS, Ch 4, pg 56, U.S. ed.) Hermione only repaired them in the movie version.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 10:53 am (#1692 of 2923)
The Mirror thread has dealt with the Mirror of Erised and Sirius's mirror and other mirrors too.
Again, my for the Half-Blood Prince is Godric Gryffindor. Unless are other Princes that we haven't thought about. Prince William anyone. :-) GC
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remiden - Sep 13, 2004 12:48 pm (#1693 of 2923)
I never did understand why in CoS harry gets in trouble for using magic, then Hermonie does not. Maybe the HBP told on him!
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sjcuk13 - Sep 13, 2004 1:00 pm (#1694 of 2923)
I have just been reading the questions and answers on JKR.com on answering a question on the HBP JKR said that a question she couldn't answer was "What does HBP mean?" this got me thinking on what could it mean? Rather then being a person could it be a group of people or an object?
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Steve Newton - Sep 13, 2004 1:09 pm (#1695 of 2923)
Librarian
sjcuk13,
I like your direction, but, I can't see how it could be a group of people using any definition of 'prince' that I know of.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 13, 2004 1:12 pm (#1696 of 2923)
I agree probably not but it is just the way the question is worded I would assume a half blood prince would be a prince who is half blood, but if that's not what it means. Then what does it mean?
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flyingwill - Sep 13, 2004 2:07 pm (#1697 of 2923)
I think that I saw J.K.Rowling saying that it was neither Harry nor Voldemort. I might be the future defence against the dark art teacher. I think I've read an interview in which J.K.Rowling said that he was going to be the DADA teacher the two last books.
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Star Crossed - Sep 13, 2004 2:22 pm (#1698 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
He who, flyingwill?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 13, 2004 5:18 pm (#1699 of 2923)
reposted from the Vampire thread.
. . . . . . Transylvannia by the way is in Romania. Any speculation on Charlie W. running across Vamipires in Romania. Final thought, Dracula is the "Prince of Darkness" could he be or another Vampire be the "Half-Blood Prince" of Darkness. Where's the garlic when you need. ;-) GC
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tracie1976 - Sep 13, 2004 5:49 pm (#1700 of 2923)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
Unconfirmed reports on Mugglenet are reporting that JKR says Hagrid is not the HBP.
Hagrid: not the HBP? Two separate MuggleNet readers have written in to say that JK Rowling ruled out Hagrid as a possible Half-Blood Prince candidate at the Edinburgh book reading last August. She revealed this to both readers independently after being asked in the book tent. Thanks, Glenn and Bridget, for sharing this with us!
Note that we cannot say with 100% accuracy this is true, but both readers had UK-based IP addresses and solid alibis. Consider this a good rumor, but not yet a fact.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1701 to 1750)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:27 am
Classicsquid592 - Sep 13, 2004 10:29 pm (#1701 of 2923)
I rather fancy the idea of James Potter, it fits nicely. JKR has said that by the end of the series we will know enough about the marauder's days at Hogwarts not to need any books set before PS; also, based on the alchemy formula for the last three books, Harry will learn more about his own history and his own power in the next book; JKR had said that the HBP story line was once a part of CoS but she lifted it out of that story line because it fit better in book 6. If the HBP story was about Harry's parent's history, then we can definitely see why she moved it. It works far better after Harry knows who the marauders were and what Snape's relation to his father was. I could see Harry learning the extent of his own power through the knowledge of his parents. If this were the case, I wonder who, or what, would be the source of this knowledge. Could he have another DADA teacher who was a friend of his father's, a pensieve, or might it be something else? It could be somehow related to Sirius' mirror. Sorry, I went back a number of threads, but that prediction just ties so many things JKR has said (and, in some cases, we have put together on our own) together. Everything fits with that idea and I now sit firmly in the James Potter is the HBP camp. (of course, the very fact I adopted this idea means it is likely wrong.)
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haymoni - Sep 14, 2004 6:12 am (#1702 of 2923)
Ugh!!!!
I was CERTAIN Hagrid was the HBP!
Where were these reports? I don't remember seeing them earlier.
Alas...earwax!
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tracie1976 - Sep 14, 2004 6:38 am (#1703 of 2923)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
They were just posted yesterday on Mugglenet but like they said, it's a rumor and not yet confirmed by JKR.
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haymoni - Sep 14, 2004 7:17 am (#1704 of 2923)
I thought I could read what they actually asked (and if they asked anything else good.).
Thanks for the link.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 14, 2004 1:29 pm (#1705 of 2923)
You know I'm really confused now I don't know who is the HBP as everyone had made good arguments as to who they think it is. I guess I will have to read though everything again. lol.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 14, 2004 2:30 pm (#1706 of 2923)
I suppose it wouldn't make as much sense for Hagrid to be the featured character in the sixth book. I would expect him to be more prominent in book 7. Currently James Potter seems to be the best guess.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 15, 2004 4:52 am (#1707 of 2923)
I definitely don't think it is Hagrid
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Gerald Costales - Sep 15, 2004 5:12 am (#1708 of 2923)
My vote for HBP is still Godric Gryffindor. There is strong support for James "the Prince of Half-Bloods" Potter.
The two Half-Bloods JKR recently revealed are Remus Lupin and Dean Thomas. Don't have much background on Lupin in the Book. But if Lupin was a Royal, wouldn't having a werewolf bite him dethorne any of his future claims to a possible title?
I know Hagrid was my sympathic vote, but I wouldn't be to upset if the rumors prove to be true. Even without a title, Hagrid has a secure place in the Book and his presence wiil probably be felt until the end of the series. ;-) GC
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Gerald Costales - Sep 15, 2004 5:28 am (#1709 of 2923)
Here are some ideas I previously posted for Dean Thomas as a possible canidate for the HBP. Hope they merit a reread.
Dean Thomas is a minor character but I predict a greater role for him in Books 6 & 7. Anyone poking around in the J. K. Rowling website may have found a drawing for The Midnight Duel chapter from the first book. But this drawing shows a group with one additional member Dean Thomas. The movie has Ron instead of Neville going to the Midnight Duel.
Also, on Rowling‘s website is an enlarged background of Dean Thomas - half-blood, mother a muggle and father a wizard. Dean’s father is killed when he refuses to join the Death Eaters. There is a minor difference in the UK editions and American editions. Dean Thomas is mentioned in the Sorting Hat ceremony and not mentioned in the UK editions. Why so much background on such a minor character? Rowling in the website has this to say, “I suppose in some ways I sacrificed Dean’s voyage of discovery for Neville’s, which is more important to the central plot.” Some argue the Thomas background story is discarded like so many other items in rewrites, edits, etc.
Here are some coincidental items to think about. Three of the five boys (now young men) in Harry’s year are fatherless.
. . . . . . 1. Harry Both parents killed by Voldermort
. . . . . . 2. Dean Father killed by Deatheaters
. . . . . . 3. Neville Both parents tortured by Death Eaters, both insane
Some would comment Neville’s parents are still alive but to what purpose. Neville is being raised by his Grandmother. He is technically not an orphan. But, in practice his parents are near vegetables. Neville has no parental relationship to them. Visiting them would be similar to visiting a cemetery. So what?
Imagine this scene Voldemort in front of a group of Death Eaters shouting:
“Defy me and feel my wrath. There is nothing or anyone who defy me that will stop me. The Potters are dead. The Longbottoms are incurably insane. And blank (Dean’s father, we are still uncertain of his surname) is dead.”
Again, so what? Think of the number three. Both the Potter and Longbottoms defeated Voldermort thrice. What if Dean’s birthday is in July? What if Dean’s father defeated Voldermort thrice, also? There would be three boys not two who fit the Prophecy.
What are the possibilities for you as parent if you defy Voldermort:
. . . . . . 1. You both die (Harry)
. . . . . . 2. You’re both insane or crippled (Neville)
. . . . . . 3. Your child is fatherless or motherless (Dean)
Three students in Gryffindor directly or indirectly linked to Voldermort. Just too coincidental. ;-) GC
PS Don't necessarily support Dean, but you never know. Also, at the end of Book 5 Ginny said she was going out with Dean. :-) GC
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Catherine - Sep 15, 2004 5:58 am (#1710 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
TLC and Mugglenet are both reporting a semi-confirmed rumor that Hagrid is not the HBP.
They are still working on confirmation, but at least one of the sources was definitely at the Edinburgh Book Festival, and both people who submitted this have checked out so far.
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Star Crossed - Sep 15, 2004 12:23 pm (#1711 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Gerald, Ron was already in the midnight duel in the book.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 15, 2004 3:04 pm (#1712 of 2923)
May be there is a certain magical quality about the number 3. and it would be interesting but i think Dumbledore would have mentioned if Dean was a candidate for the prophecy as well.
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dragon keeper - Sep 15, 2004 3:50 pm (#1713 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I don't think that Dean is necessarily part of the prophecy, but I do think that he could still be a candidate for the HBP, anyone could. In my opinion, the prophecy doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the HBP. Since he was not mentioned by DD then we can presume that Dean is not "the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord," but we can't rule out Dean just yet (as the HBP).
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Gerald Costales - Sep 15, 2004 5:45 pm (#1714 of 2923)
dragon slayer, thanks for the response. I agree with you until JKR eliminates a Half-Blood, Hagrid possibly being the latest to be eliminated, we have to examine the Half-Bloods we know about.
I am not really a Dean Thomas supporter but tried to tie him to the Prophecy to see if it could make him a better Half-Blood Prince canidate.
Thanks, Star Crossed you're right about Ron being at the Duel. I should have caught that point. But, the facts about Dean Thomas are still valid. Dean according to JKR is a Half-Blood. Now here's the stretch if you want to make Dean a Half-Blood Prince canidate, we don't known anything about his biological father. Dean's biological father could be a Royal, Prince or King, etc. If Dean's biological father was a Royal, could this be the reason Death Eaters were trying to force him to be a Death Eater? (Don't know how Royality works in the Wizarding World.) And Dean as the son of a Prince, King, etc. should inherit his title,
I still haven't seen any agruments against Lupin. Again, Lupin according to JKR is also a Half-Blood. :-) GC
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Ann - Sep 15, 2004 8:16 pm (#1715 of 2923)
Ah, well. I posted my arguments against Dean (or his father) being the HBP just before you guys proposed it. To summarize they are:
JKR says on her website that she's not going to use Dean's backstory.
She was halfway through Book 6 and knew the title when the website went up.
JKR may be tricky, but she doesn't flat out lie.
-- Therefore, Dean (or his father) can NOT be the HBP.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 16, 2004 4:54 am (#1716 of 2923)
Ann, do you have a current pick for the HBP? Do you think the choice for HBP should be concentrated on Half-Bloods? Do you have any non-Half-Bloods that you think is the HBP? (I think Godric Gryffindor was a Pure Blood and is the HBP, myself. I use a similar argument to James "the Prince of Half-Bloods" Potter agrument. Call it the "Weasley is our KING" agrument.)
Anyone have any other picks for the HBP?
I have one crazy pick and ideas to back it but would really like to see some others proposed. Come on I don't get upset when people shoot holes in my canidates. (That's part of the fun with posting, so far.) Just want some discussion on possibilities. And in JKR's world that can be unlimited. (And we all argue our favorites.) I propose some canidates just to keep the posts fresh, new, and interesting. ;-)
Remus "the Prince of Werewolves" Lupin is a canidate until he gets eliminated like Hagrid. (I know Hagrid still needs to be confirmed.) ;-) GC
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dragon keeper - Sep 16, 2004 9:19 am (#1717 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
OK, well I guess we can officially rule out Dean. Thanks Ann, I missed the part when she said that his history will never make it into the books...
Anyway, back to the drawing board.
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Ann - Sep 16, 2004 1:01 pm (#1718 of 2923)
Gerald, my favorite, at the moment, is an historical character, probably not Godric Gryffindor, but perhaps a son or (more probably) grandson. I suspect that he a half-blood (and I do take this title literally) and a prince (somewhat less literally--medievally, perhaps). Godric Gryffindor was presumably full-blood, and it's likely that his wife was as well: otherwise, I think Slytherin would not have been such a close friend. But when their son married a muggle-born, or even a muggle, and the grandson was magical, there would have been trouble.
The "strand of the story" attached to this would be the details of the departure of Slytherin because of his disappointment with Gryffindor in accepting this half-blood prince, his own grandson, into the school. It may have been, at that time, an accepted practice that only pure-bloods were accepted. This would explain why the rules the Sorting Hat applies do not strictly exclude muggle-borns in Slytherin: remember, JKR was planning a character in GoF that was half muggle-born and half squib-born, Mafalda, the Weasley cousin, who was put in Slytherin according to her web site. If no muggle-borns were omitted when the Sorting Hat was created, it would not have any instructions about excluding them. If Gryffindor changed the rules after his grandson was born, or later, it might explain why their friendship fell apart.
Such a grandson could even be the new clue guy, assuming that glasses had been invented by the time he was an old man, say in the late 1200s (although I still think that's pushing it), or assuming that JKR didn't think about the date of the invention of glasses.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 16, 2004 2:03 pm (#1719 of 2923)
Great post Ann. If someone hid their Half-Blood ancestors, like Tom Riddle has hidden that he's a Half-Blood from the Death Eaters, and since there are so few Pure Blood Wizarding families left, there could be a relative of the Half-Blood Prince currently attending Hogwarts.
I don't think they would be in Slytherin, but that would leave three quarters of Hogwarts as possible descendants. Don't know if this fits in with your ideas, but just a thought. If the Half-Blood Prince was a Redhead, think of the possibilities. Besides the Weasley, Albus Dumbledore had auburn colored hair.
Thanks for the response to my post. I hope you have as much fun as I do posting and responding to the different points of view. I'm working on a crazy theory for the Half-Blood Prince. It may not hold water but it will be interesting. ;-) GC
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 16, 2004 5:53 pm (#1720 of 2923)
I was thinking along alchemy lines and came up with further support for James Potter being the Half-Blood Prince. James' animagus form is the white stag, and Lily is named for the white flower that is so often used as a symbol for the albedo stage in alchemy. If that one very popular prediction for the next two books were valid, these two white symbols would necessarily be very significant in the next book specifically. This is still my favorite idea and I sincerely thank you for bringing it up Betelgeuse Black. I have developed many other predictions based on this assumption and through it everything seems to fall into place piece-by-piece (which means it is probably wrong).
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Gerald Costales - Sep 16, 2004 7:32 pm (#1721 of 2923)
Classicsquid592 (re: post# 1722)
Albus is White and Voldermort is the Dark Lord. On the Dumbledore thread, I've posted that Dumbledore was an alchemist before he taught at Hogwarts. And Dumbledore was partners with Flamel also an alchemist.
Looks like I have to check out the Alchemy threads. ;-) GC
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Magical Llama - Sep 17, 2004 2:11 pm (#1722 of 2923)
I still believe the sorting hat will transform into the embodiment of the HBP. McClaggan will probably become the new MoM.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 17, 2004 4:57 pm (#1723 of 2923)
This is a random thought and since, it relates to the Half-Blood Prince. I thought I would re-post it here.
In the United Kingdom of Great Great Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Head of State is the Queen Elizabeth II, while, the Head of Government is the Prime Minister.
I wonder if the title of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince is an indication of similar system of government. Because, the Statute of Wizarding Secrecy could allow for the development of a parallel system of governance.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 17, 2004 7:55 pm (#1724 of 2923)
Great Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy, the King or Queen is the symbolic head of government. The Prime Minister is the elected Head of Government.
There is a House of Commons and House of Lords. The two Houses form the Parliament. The Parliament comes from the French word “parley” to speak. The Magna Charta established a Great Council to help the King rule. The Great Council limited the King’s power. (The US being an ex-British colony share a common democratic heritage.) I hope a British Forum member gives us more information. But, I think I covered the basics.
I don’t know if the Ministry of Magic parallels the British governmental system. If the British Wizarding World parallels the British governmental system, is there a King of the British Wizarding World? Then is the “Half-Blood Prince” the heir to British Wizarding throne if one exists?
If there was a Wizard King, I’d think we would have heard about him by now. There have been 5 books without mentioning a Wizard King. My guess is that if a Wizard King existed, he ruled in the past.
Oliver Cromwell did eliminate the British King, but the Monarchy was reestablished. The British people revolted against Cromwell’s strict Puritanical ways. The Wizard King could also been eliminated but never reestablished.
I don’t think there is a current British Wizard throne.
So much for the history lesson. ;-) GC
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 17, 2004 8:34 pm (#1725 of 2923)
GC, yes I know that the Queen's role is largely symbolic. But, the monarchs of most constitutional monarchies are held to be the Head of State. Also, it not necessarily the case that we would have heard of him. The only reason that readers knew that there is a Minister of Magic is because, Hagrid mentioned him in passing in Philosopher's Stone however, we did not meet Fudge until book three. So the possibility that J.K. Rowling concealed the existence of such royalty because, she she knew that they would play a role in later books.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 18, 2004 9:11 am (#1726 of 2923)
The Wizengamot seems to be similar to a Great Council not the same as the British Parliament. I don't get the impression that you get elected to the Wizengamot either, probably appointed. Not clear how the Judicial Branch of British government works.
Is the Minister of Magic elected by the general Wizard population? In a Parliamentry system the people vote for a Party. The majority party or a group of parties then form a majority government. The majority party (or group of parties) picks the Prime Minister to head the government. (I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong.)
Don't know how Royality works in the Wizarding World either.
Still convinced that there is currently no British Wizard throne. But, I do accept that a Wizard King may have existed in the past and is probably related to the "Half-Blood Prince". I've posted that a current student at Hogwarts could be a descentant of the "Half-Blood Prince". I'm not confident that the "Half-Blood Prince" is alive but a historical person that relates to story of Book 6 and possibly Book 7.
I've mentioned Lupin as a "Half-Blood Prince" canidate. He is a Half-Blood at least. The question of Royality is of course a question mark. The problem with most canidates is that we have too little background on most of them. JKR has eliminated Harry, Voldermort, and Hagrid will probably be eliminated soon.
It's still a wide open field for canidates who could be the "Half-Blood Prince". Nathan did you have a pick? I think everyone knows my favorite pick, but I've also endorsed Dean Thomas and Remus Lupin just because they're Half-Bloods. (Godric Gryffindor, I belive was a Pure Blood, but is currently my choice for the "Half-Blood Prince".)
Still plenty of time to post suggestions for the "Half-Blood Prince", that is until Book 6 is released. (Then we'll be too busy reading.) I guess I'll be reading posts and posting on the threads until then. (I'm checking the Alchemy thread for clues to "Half-Blood Prince" also) ;-) GC
PS Toyed with the idea that Viktor Krum could be the "Half-Blood Prince". My thinking being that the Prince wouldn't necessarily be exclusively British. But, JKR said we wouldn't be seeing Krum return to Story anytime soon.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 18, 2004 9:52 am (#1727 of 2923)
Perhaps the "Half-Blood Prince" storyline is a reference to the wizarding world reinstating the monarchy. This would also explain why Fudge would leave. Perhaps JKR wanted to introduce a character who was a half-blood and also heir to the wizarding throne in the second book, but decided it would suit the story better if we didn't know he was the prince until the sixth book when that title would actually mean something. I wonder what event might bring about the end of the Wizengamot and the position of Minister of Magic entirely?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 18, 2004 9:58 am (#1728 of 2923)
Classicsquid592
"I wonder what event might bring about the end of the Wizengamot and the position of Minister of Magic entirely?"
May I suggest the return of Voldermort to Power and a Second War against Death Eaters, Voldermort, possibly the Giants, etc.
Just a thought. ;-) GC
Classicsquid592, do you have a canidate for "Half-Blood Prince"?
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 18, 2004 5:41 pm (#1729 of 2923)
That would fit one of my possibility models for the next two books. Actually I do have one candidate for the HBP if you will check posts 1722 and 1703 in this thread. However James Potter would not fit this model, for him to be the HBP, would require that "prince" be a figurative title. I wonder if R.J. Lupin was ever intended to be introduced into the series at an earlier point (I know Sirius Black was). With this model, just about any male half-blood would work. They would not have mentioned their heritage because having royal blood would not have any meaning in the wizarding world as it currently is. If there was once a monarchy in the wizarding world, how long ago it was overthrown? Could it have been connected somehow with the Goblin Rebellion? Perhaps a group wanting to establish the modern ministry of magic joined up with Urg the Unclean and together they assassinated the wizard king, or it could have happened more recently. There are signs of unrest among the goblins once more, and I had predicted somewhere that Voldemort would use this to take the wizarding economy. Pettigrew just popped into my head as a possibility, but the idea was simply too absurd so I will post no more on that particular idea.
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remiden - Sep 18, 2004 6:39 pm (#1730 of 2923)
Lupin could have been placed in to the DADA teacher in the second book, and had his term continued into the third. Lockhart, while absurd and colorful, did nothing for the overall storyline. Without him in the second book, there would have no change to the overall plot and little actual change. Lupin could have done the same role, with better interaction with Harry. Actually, if you read the books, Lockhart does not really fit in. His character is does not seem to flow the way the rest of the characters do. It is almost like he was added in later. Hmmm, starts to think.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 19, 2004 8:56 am (#1731 of 2923)
Classicsquid592 (re: post #1731)
"Pettigrew just popped into my head as a possibility, but the idea was simply too absurd so I will post no more on that particular idea."
Classicsquid592, you may not want to post about Peter. But, here my take on Peter. I hope everyone has some fun reading it.
Here’s a list of known mixes of wizards and other magical creatures.
. . . . . . Hagrid - half giant and wizard. (And probably eliminated as HBP.) And probably Madame Maxine.
. . . . . . Fleur is a quarter-blood, a quadroon, assuming she only has one veela grandmother and three other wizard grandparents.
Cross marriage between Wizards and other magical creatures does exist. Currently we’re aware of only two, Hagrid and Fleur. But, I think one can safely assume that other Mixed Wizard and other magical creatures children do exist.
I’m not saying that Hagrid and Fleur are the tip of the iceberg and that 1,000’s or even 10,000’s of these Mixed children exist. Given the Pure Blood biases of the Wizard World, there are probably fewer than a 1,000. An exact count of Mixed children would probably be impossible to do. Any Mixed children that are born and can be hidden are hidden. Madame Maxine still insists she is just big boned. Mixes like Fleur go unnoticed but the veela blood though diluted still has a powerful influence on any unsuspecting male Wizard.
This leads me to my highly speculative cross - Wizard and House-Elf.
Peter Pettigrew could be a Half-Blood because of his extreme shortness. (Peter is described as being only as tall as a child.) Also, Peter’s willingness to serve with first the Marauders and then Lord Voldermort might be explained because of some House-Elf lineage.
Peter Pettigrew as the HBP does support my feelings that House-Elves will be a force to be reckoned with during the coming VWII because of House-Elves powerful magic. (Wandless, apparate and disapparate in and out of Hogwarts, etc.) And with 100 House-Elves at Hogwarts, a HBP with a House-Elf lineage could rally the Hogwarts’ House-Elves if not all other House-Elves in the fight against Voldermort and the Death Eaters. (The Death Eater are recruiting the Giants to side with them after all. Could Dumbledore being working on similar plans to recruit House-Elves, etc.?)
Peter Pettigrew as the “Half-Blood Prince”. Ridiculous, maybe. But, still possible. ;-) GC
PS Also, reread your posts #1703 and 1722. Still a valid choice. ;-) GC
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El Cronista de Salem - Sep 19, 2004 12:45 pm (#1732 of 2923)
I think that the Half-Blood Prince is Godric Gryffindor. I have write a theory which explains it with varius reasons. Unfortunately, it is in spanish
What do you think?
I think that Dean Thomas couldn't be, because JKR said that she sacrifizied his story for Neville, which is MORE IMPORTANT.
Hagrid is half-blood, ok, but if you go to FAQS- ABOUT THE BOOKS in jkrowling.com, Jo explains clearly what she understands for "half-blood". Semi-wizard! No semi-gigant! And a couple of fans asked her about Hagrid, and she said "no".
Remus... he appeared in third book, and he hadn't mention in the second.
Snape: JKR said that he is not half-blood in the Edinburgh Festival.
Seamus Finnigan: ¡NO! I dont have nothing that could prove that he isn't, but i dont like NOTHING this possibily.
¿McClaggan? Nothing to comment.
¿What about the Dumbledore brothers? Could be they half-blood? Hummm.. i dont think it. People has called them a lot of awful things, as "mad", but never HALF-BLOOD.
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legolas - Sep 19, 2004 3:44 pm (#1733 of 2923)
Could the HBP be Grindlewade? I haven't seen anyone mention him but I have been doing a lot of skimming of this thread.
Although Voldy chose his name by creating an anagram it shows a high level of arrogance at such a young age to get his friend to call him Lord.
Could Grindlewade have thought that he was a cut above everyone and called himself Prince. Voldy may have really respected this dark wizard and possibly modelled himself on him?
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riddikulus - Sep 19, 2004 3:44 pm (#1734 of 2923)
I agree that I think it's more than possible GG is the HBP. I also think he's related to Harry. I find it too much a coincidence that the Potters home was in GODRICS' Hollow. That Harry would pull GODRIC Gryffindors sword from the hat. That Voldy is the heir of Slytherin and the evil in the story... if there must be a good counterpart/a Harry... I think that it's most likely it's the heir of the good, muggle friendly, GG. I was really hoping it be Dumbledore or a relation to him, like Aberforth, as i'm not quite unconvinced he's not a relation to GG... but the clues are pointing more to the other, for me, at this point. I also wanted to believe that Harry is related in some way to DD, but if he had any living relatives, he wouldn't be with the Dursleys.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 19, 2004 6:09 pm (#1735 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"I also wanted to believe that Harry is related in some way to DD, but if he had any living relatives, he wouldn't be with the Dursleys."
I tried that one too Riddikulus, but could not imagine either Albus or Aberforth raising a baby, so alas, earwax.
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Hollywand - Sep 19, 2004 6:19 pm (#1736 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Just food for thought....don't have a chimera if you don't agree.
Rowling has set up as a premise that blood lineage is not a good predictor for magical ability. So.....perhaps the "heir" of Gryffindor becomes the "heir" by demonstrating a certain level of spiritual/magical development, rather than blood lineage. In this way, Harry could be "heir" to Gryffindor's lineage, a successor to Albus Dumbledore without Albus having to share genetic material with the Potters or Evans family.
So...Godric Gryffindor could be refered to as the Half Blood Prince in that his blood was not the major factor is his ascension to a position of leadership, but the will of the Wizarding World.
I think anyone who has the nerve to name Dumbledore's Phoenix, Fawkes, after the guy that tried to dynamite Pariliament has a rather ironic attitude toward royalty.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 19, 2004 6:27 pm (#1737 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Once again, 10 points for original thinking Hollywand!
Toddles off to ponder...
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Phoenix song - Sep 19, 2004 8:57 pm (#1738 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Hollywand: "I think anyone who has the nerve to name Dumbledore's Phoenix, Fawkes, after the guy that tried to dynamite Parliament has a rather ironic attitude toward royalty."
I'm afraid that I don't know the history behind this event. Could you explain it to me? It may grant me some additional insight into JKR's view of royalty and government.
"So...Godric Gryffindor could be referred to as the Half Blood Prince in that his blood was not the major factor is his ascension to a position of leadership, but the will of the Wizarding World."
I agree with you that the Heir of Gryffindor needs not necessarily be related to GG by blood. I think that choices is such an integral factor in the books that it would be important for JKR to point out that blood is not the most important factor in life. I personally believe that Harry took on GG's mantle when he battled Voldemort in the CoS. I think that he in effect "chose" to become GG's heir by: risking his life to rescue Ginny; deciding to fight Riddle even though it seemed as if he didn't stand a chance; letting Riddle know that it was Harry's "common muggle born" mother who--in effect--defeated his future self; and in defending Dumbledore in the face of his enemy. It was then that Harry reached out and grasped the handle of GG's sword. I believe that it was then that Harry became the Heir of Gryffindor, regardless of blood relation.
It has been suggested that the Half-blood Prince may have gained that title because of his affinity for those of "non-pure blood". I think that this explanation is probably the best that we've heard. We know that Voldemort considers Dumbledore to be the "champion of commoners, mudbloods, and muggles." Perhaps GG also gained this title because he defended the "Half-blood" student's right to study at Hogwarts.
Barbie
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Hollywand - Sep 19, 2004 9:10 pm (#1739 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Phoenix Song! There is a reference on the Lex to Fawkes, named for Guy Fawkes, a chap who planted quite a bit of dynamite beneath the Houses of Parliament. Fawkes was foiled in his attempt, but Fawkes night is celebrated in the UK with fireworks, and poor Guy is burned in effigy in celebration. I laughed out loud when I first made the connection between the phoenix and Fawkes, and the source confirmed. Rowling is mischievous!
Great points on Harry's actions in the Chamber of Secrets; you may have just pointed to what Rowling refers to as "The thing that Harry discovers that relates to the Half Blood Prince", meaning, Harry's choices have already made him the heir Of Gryffindor, in fact, Dumbledore points this out to him at the close of the book.
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Phoenix song - Sep 19, 2004 9:18 pm (#1740 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Thanks for the information Hollywand! I'll go and look up this reference. It is ironic that she would name DD's phoenix companion after a person that is "burned" in effigy. I agree that JKR is mischevious! I can see her sense of humor and it cracks me up!
Thank you for your insight into my post, as well. I do think that DD was trying to let Harry know that he was a "true Gryffindor" in the most pure sense of the words.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 20, 2004 5:39 am (#1741 of 2923)
Just posted this question in the Dumbledore thread, I thought it could fit here also.
With Harry and Voldermort sharing Brother Wands, how would that final confrontation occur? We already know what happened last time with the Brother Wands locking and releasing the shadows of Voldermort's recent victims in the graveyard. Wouldn't a second confrontation be another repeat of the first confrontation with the wands locking yet again?
Maybe Fawkes, because of the Feather core, or even the "Half-Blood Prince" will be the tie breaker, to allow Voldermort to be defeated. ;-) GC
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 20, 2004 5:55 am (#1742 of 2923)
I liked the idea of Harry being the heir of GG and the reasoning behind it. Thanks, Hollywand. I think it is interesting that James and Lily Potter were hiding in Godric's Grove, though. I think this shows that Harry is really like his parents. I think his parents were also "true" Gryffindor heirs. However, I also agree with the reasoning that your choices make you the heir, not your parents. Harry just happens to have both items. I think the half-blood prince will be a Gryffindor (Godric or James) since they will fight for the half-blood and muggle-born wizards.
Betelgeuse
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Phoenix song - Sep 20, 2004 6:05 am (#1743 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GC: The priori incantatem only comes into effect if the two wand holders shoot out spells at the same time that meet at the same place. (I believe, so please correct me if I'm wrong.) So it would be possible for the two wizards to "battle" one another as long as their spells didn't meet in mid-air. Voldemort was able to "crucio" Harry, so we know that they can inflict curses upon one another. I don't see a protection from Fawkes' feather in this instance.
I'm not sure how the Half-blood Prince will play out in this instance. We've tried to figure out so much about this character and what he'll bring to book 6, but in the end it is all speculation until that glorious day when we have the book clutched eagerly in our greedy little hands. (looking forward in anticipation!)
I do think that the HBP will bring new insight into how Harry will be able to defeat Voldemort, though. I think that he will be able to provide information to Harry that will allow him to have greater access to Voldemort's weaknesses. (Similar to the information that R2D2 was storing that would provide plans to the Death Star's only weakness.)
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 20, 2004 7:04 am (#1744 of 2923)
There is still that off chance that the Wands could lock again. And I am hoping Dumbledore is preparing Harry for that.
I like the R2D2 and HBP reference. Darth Vadar is a Lord of the Sith. Voldermort is the Dark Lord. I know we won't hear a, "Harry, I am your father!", line from Voldermort. (That is unless it's in fan fiction.)
I hope to avoid the wands locking in a duel that Harry isn't forced to ambush Voldermort. Voldermort would more than gladly AK Harry in the back or unaware. But, Harry being the Hero shouldn't be forced into that situation.
A link between the Potter's living in Godric Hollow and (for those who believe) Godric Gryffindor being the HBP maybe in Book 6 or 7.
If anyone is the Heir of Gryffindor, my vote is Harry, whether by blood or ability. Dumbledore is for ability over the Pure Blood bias of the Slytherins. And I can't imagine Godric Gryffindor having a Pure Blood bias either. Some have already suggested that this was the issue that caused Godric and Salazar to split.
Just waiting for Book 6 like the rest of you. ;-) GC
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Julie Aronson - Sep 20, 2004 7:40 am (#1745 of 2923)
GC:
Look under the Voldemort/Harry connections discussion for my argument on why Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor.
Either way, I think we're right. There must be someone to balance the Heir of Slytherin.
Julie
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 20, 2004 5:15 pm (#1746 of 2923)
"Maybe Fawkes, because of the Feather core, or even the "Half-Blood Prince" will be the tie breaker, to allow Voldermort to be defeated. ;-) GC"
Gerald, I have a prediction on who the tie breaker might be in post# 521 in this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (it was my first post, made the day I joined the site :-) )
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Gerald Costales - Sep 20, 2004 5:49 pm (#1747 of 2923)
Julie (re: post #1747)
I remember reading this post. Since Godric is not a common name (well at least not in modern times) the fact that there are two Godrics in "The Battle of Maldon" could be important. I made that post a favorite place so I could locate it for future reference.
Classicsquid592 (re: post # 1748)
Some people have suggested that "the One" to defeat Voldermort is a person besides Harry possibly Neville because of his July 30th B-day and the "born as the 7th month dies" reference. I've been wanting to check the wand threads because Harry and Voldermort both have "Brother Wands" with the same Fawkes phoenix feather core.
But, here's an interesting thought that came to mind while reading your post "the One" reference could be Neville's wand not necessarily Neville, not to diminish any future role Neville may have in the Story. Also JKR was real careful that the Prophecy was touched by only Harry and Neville then broken. ;-) GC
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Gerald Costales - Sep 21, 2004 6:26 am (#1748 of 2923)
Classicsquid592 You might want to check my post #127 on the "Wands" thread. I used some of your ideas in a post. Hope you don't mind.
Thanks for the inspiration. ;-) GC
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Kevin Lane - Sep 21, 2004 12:44 pm (#1749 of 2923)
Hi everyone, this is my first post, so be easy.
Well when I first read the name of the new HP book (in my local paper no less, boy I was behind on things) the first thing that popped into my mind was a tall, thin man, cast in purple shadows looking moody and evil. Don't ask me why, I don't know. Anyways, a few people here have analyzed the book titles and I thought I might have a go at it.
1. First plant, animal, or mineral
The Sorcerer's Stone: Magical object The Chamber of Secrets: Place The Prisoner of Azkaban: Person The Goblet of Fire: Magic Object? Maybe, but I’m leaning towards Judge The Order of the Phoenix: Organization The Half Blood Prince: ???
2. No one has ever told Harry about it before, even if it was hinted at.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Well this one’s easy, Harry didn’t know anything magical in this book. The Chamber of Secrets: Not even mentioned The Prisoner of Azkaban: This one is tricky. Sirius is mentioned, but not to Harry. Although Harry had heard about Azkaban, no one every told him SPECIFICALLY. Malfoy thought he was explaining it to Grabbe/Golye The Goblet of Fire: Again, not even mentioned. The Order of the Phoenix: Not sure on this one, can someone tell me how Harry found out about ‘the old crowd’ Wasn’t it in the hospital room, when they thought Harry was sleeping?
3. Each title has been important before but some reason brings it back to importance.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Nicholas Flamel, Voldie tries to get his hands on it brings it into promenince The Chamber of Secrets: The petrifying of people. The Prisoner of Azkaban: Happened 13 years previous, but Sirius’ escape brings it back to attention The Goblet of Fire: The tournament being brought back The Order of the Phoenix: Voldies return caused the reformation or the OoTP
4. Each title, whether good bad or impartial, is eventually used for evil.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Well Voldie coming back is evil. The Chamber of Secrets: Killing Muggle borns is evil. So is the Tom Riddle coming out of the diary. The Prisoner of Azkaban: Well, I guess Peter returning to Voldie is evil. The Goblet of Fire: Magic GOF being hoodwinked into sending Harry to Voldie to Voldie can return is most definitely evil The Order of the Phoenix: Well Kreacher makes Harry believe that Sirius is at the MOM, which results in Sirius’ death.
5. The effect of each title in the book causes the evil effect in the next one.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Well first one, connect it to Harry’s parents dieing The Chamber of Secrets: Well if Voldie has returned using the SS/PS, Malfoy would already be a death eater and most likely not shopping the bookshop. The Prisoner of Azkaban: Hmm, this one is a toughie. Can’t think of anything now, except that if the Weaslys hadn’t gone to Egypt….. The Goblet of Fire: Pettigrew escaping, helping Voldie, finding out about the tournament, ect…. The Order of the Phoenix: Easy, if Voldie hadn’t come back, there would be no reason to reform the ootp.
6. Some portion of the Wizarding world knew about the title whatever back when it was important before, and the only reason Harry finds out about it is because it comes back into prominence. These are pretty easy, so you figure them out.
7. Harry although he knows less than everybody at the beginning, always knows more than everyone at the end. I don’t feel like explaining these either.
Ok well, also the meaning of ‘the half blood prince’
I was raised pretty religiously so the first thing I thought of was The Prince of Darkness (aka Satan from the Bible). But then I thought to thinking, what is the only kind of government system currently used in the WW that might have a supreme ruler?
The answer: Voldemort and his Supporters
Think about it, if you ever cross Voldie, its “off with your head”
So I’m thinking that THB might have second in command before and is now coming back.
Anyways, this might not make any sense, feel free to pick it apart, whatever, I don’t care its not like I’ll owe you money if I’m wrong.
Oh by the way, I probably read about 80 percent of the almost 2 thousand posts here.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 21, 2004 1:21 pm (#1750 of 2923)
Some good point there Kevin ... getting very tired thinking about them all ... goes off to bed to think about them
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I rather fancy the idea of James Potter, it fits nicely. JKR has said that by the end of the series we will know enough about the marauder's days at Hogwarts not to need any books set before PS; also, based on the alchemy formula for the last three books, Harry will learn more about his own history and his own power in the next book; JKR had said that the HBP story line was once a part of CoS but she lifted it out of that story line because it fit better in book 6. If the HBP story was about Harry's parent's history, then we can definitely see why she moved it. It works far better after Harry knows who the marauders were and what Snape's relation to his father was. I could see Harry learning the extent of his own power through the knowledge of his parents. If this were the case, I wonder who, or what, would be the source of this knowledge. Could he have another DADA teacher who was a friend of his father's, a pensieve, or might it be something else? It could be somehow related to Sirius' mirror. Sorry, I went back a number of threads, but that prediction just ties so many things JKR has said (and, in some cases, we have put together on our own) together. Everything fits with that idea and I now sit firmly in the James Potter is the HBP camp. (of course, the very fact I adopted this idea means it is likely wrong.)
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haymoni - Sep 14, 2004 6:12 am (#1702 of 2923)
Ugh!!!!
I was CERTAIN Hagrid was the HBP!
Where were these reports? I don't remember seeing them earlier.
Alas...earwax!
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tracie1976 - Sep 14, 2004 6:38 am (#1703 of 2923)
"Harry needs her badly." JKR on Hermione...interview from The Times June 30, 2000 artwork for avatar by logansrogue at livejournal.com
They were just posted yesterday on Mugglenet but like they said, it's a rumor and not yet confirmed by JKR.
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haymoni - Sep 14, 2004 7:17 am (#1704 of 2923)
I thought I could read what they actually asked (and if they asked anything else good.).
Thanks for the link.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 14, 2004 1:29 pm (#1705 of 2923)
You know I'm really confused now I don't know who is the HBP as everyone had made good arguments as to who they think it is. I guess I will have to read though everything again. lol.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 14, 2004 2:30 pm (#1706 of 2923)
I suppose it wouldn't make as much sense for Hagrid to be the featured character in the sixth book. I would expect him to be more prominent in book 7. Currently James Potter seems to be the best guess.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 15, 2004 4:52 am (#1707 of 2923)
I definitely don't think it is Hagrid
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Gerald Costales - Sep 15, 2004 5:12 am (#1708 of 2923)
My vote for HBP is still Godric Gryffindor. There is strong support for James "the Prince of Half-Bloods" Potter.
The two Half-Bloods JKR recently revealed are Remus Lupin and Dean Thomas. Don't have much background on Lupin in the Book. But if Lupin was a Royal, wouldn't having a werewolf bite him dethorne any of his future claims to a possible title?
I know Hagrid was my sympathic vote, but I wouldn't be to upset if the rumors prove to be true. Even without a title, Hagrid has a secure place in the Book and his presence wiil probably be felt until the end of the series. ;-) GC
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Gerald Costales - Sep 15, 2004 5:28 am (#1709 of 2923)
Here are some ideas I previously posted for Dean Thomas as a possible canidate for the HBP. Hope they merit a reread.
Dean Thomas is a minor character but I predict a greater role for him in Books 6 & 7. Anyone poking around in the J. K. Rowling website may have found a drawing for The Midnight Duel chapter from the first book. But this drawing shows a group with one additional member Dean Thomas. The movie has Ron instead of Neville going to the Midnight Duel.
Also, on Rowling‘s website is an enlarged background of Dean Thomas - half-blood, mother a muggle and father a wizard. Dean’s father is killed when he refuses to join the Death Eaters. There is a minor difference in the UK editions and American editions. Dean Thomas is mentioned in the Sorting Hat ceremony and not mentioned in the UK editions. Why so much background on such a minor character? Rowling in the website has this to say, “I suppose in some ways I sacrificed Dean’s voyage of discovery for Neville’s, which is more important to the central plot.” Some argue the Thomas background story is discarded like so many other items in rewrites, edits, etc.
Here are some coincidental items to think about. Three of the five boys (now young men) in Harry’s year are fatherless.
. . . . . . 1. Harry Both parents killed by Voldermort
. . . . . . 2. Dean Father killed by Deatheaters
. . . . . . 3. Neville Both parents tortured by Death Eaters, both insane
Some would comment Neville’s parents are still alive but to what purpose. Neville is being raised by his Grandmother. He is technically not an orphan. But, in practice his parents are near vegetables. Neville has no parental relationship to them. Visiting them would be similar to visiting a cemetery. So what?
Imagine this scene Voldemort in front of a group of Death Eaters shouting:
“Defy me and feel my wrath. There is nothing or anyone who defy me that will stop me. The Potters are dead. The Longbottoms are incurably insane. And blank (Dean’s father, we are still uncertain of his surname) is dead.”
Again, so what? Think of the number three. Both the Potter and Longbottoms defeated Voldermort thrice. What if Dean’s birthday is in July? What if Dean’s father defeated Voldermort thrice, also? There would be three boys not two who fit the Prophecy.
What are the possibilities for you as parent if you defy Voldermort:
. . . . . . 1. You both die (Harry)
. . . . . . 2. You’re both insane or crippled (Neville)
. . . . . . 3. Your child is fatherless or motherless (Dean)
Three students in Gryffindor directly or indirectly linked to Voldermort. Just too coincidental. ;-) GC
PS Don't necessarily support Dean, but you never know. Also, at the end of Book 5 Ginny said she was going out with Dean. :-) GC
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Catherine - Sep 15, 2004 5:58 am (#1710 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
TLC and Mugglenet are both reporting a semi-confirmed rumor that Hagrid is not the HBP.
They are still working on confirmation, but at least one of the sources was definitely at the Edinburgh Book Festival, and both people who submitted this have checked out so far.
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Star Crossed - Sep 15, 2004 12:23 pm (#1711 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Gerald, Ron was already in the midnight duel in the book.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 15, 2004 3:04 pm (#1712 of 2923)
May be there is a certain magical quality about the number 3. and it would be interesting but i think Dumbledore would have mentioned if Dean was a candidate for the prophecy as well.
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dragon keeper - Sep 15, 2004 3:50 pm (#1713 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
I don't think that Dean is necessarily part of the prophecy, but I do think that he could still be a candidate for the HBP, anyone could. In my opinion, the prophecy doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the HBP. Since he was not mentioned by DD then we can presume that Dean is not "the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord," but we can't rule out Dean just yet (as the HBP).
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Gerald Costales - Sep 15, 2004 5:45 pm (#1714 of 2923)
dragon slayer, thanks for the response. I agree with you until JKR eliminates a Half-Blood, Hagrid possibly being the latest to be eliminated, we have to examine the Half-Bloods we know about.
I am not really a Dean Thomas supporter but tried to tie him to the Prophecy to see if it could make him a better Half-Blood Prince canidate.
Thanks, Star Crossed you're right about Ron being at the Duel. I should have caught that point. But, the facts about Dean Thomas are still valid. Dean according to JKR is a Half-Blood. Now here's the stretch if you want to make Dean a Half-Blood Prince canidate, we don't known anything about his biological father. Dean's biological father could be a Royal, Prince or King, etc. If Dean's biological father was a Royal, could this be the reason Death Eaters were trying to force him to be a Death Eater? (Don't know how Royality works in the Wizarding World.) And Dean as the son of a Prince, King, etc. should inherit his title,
I still haven't seen any agruments against Lupin. Again, Lupin according to JKR is also a Half-Blood. :-) GC
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Ann - Sep 15, 2004 8:16 pm (#1715 of 2923)
Ah, well. I posted my arguments against Dean (or his father) being the HBP just before you guys proposed it. To summarize they are:
JKR says on her website that she's not going to use Dean's backstory.
She was halfway through Book 6 and knew the title when the website went up.
JKR may be tricky, but she doesn't flat out lie.
-- Therefore, Dean (or his father) can NOT be the HBP.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 16, 2004 4:54 am (#1716 of 2923)
Ann, do you have a current pick for the HBP? Do you think the choice for HBP should be concentrated on Half-Bloods? Do you have any non-Half-Bloods that you think is the HBP? (I think Godric Gryffindor was a Pure Blood and is the HBP, myself. I use a similar argument to James "the Prince of Half-Bloods" Potter agrument. Call it the "Weasley is our KING" agrument.)
Anyone have any other picks for the HBP?
I have one crazy pick and ideas to back it but would really like to see some others proposed. Come on I don't get upset when people shoot holes in my canidates. (That's part of the fun with posting, so far.) Just want some discussion on possibilities. And in JKR's world that can be unlimited. (And we all argue our favorites.) I propose some canidates just to keep the posts fresh, new, and interesting. ;-)
Remus "the Prince of Werewolves" Lupin is a canidate until he gets eliminated like Hagrid. (I know Hagrid still needs to be confirmed.) ;-) GC
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dragon keeper - Sep 16, 2004 9:19 am (#1717 of 2923)
a.k.a. dragon slayer...this is more friendly
OK, well I guess we can officially rule out Dean. Thanks Ann, I missed the part when she said that his history will never make it into the books...
Anyway, back to the drawing board.
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Ann - Sep 16, 2004 1:01 pm (#1718 of 2923)
Gerald, my favorite, at the moment, is an historical character, probably not Godric Gryffindor, but perhaps a son or (more probably) grandson. I suspect that he a half-blood (and I do take this title literally) and a prince (somewhat less literally--medievally, perhaps). Godric Gryffindor was presumably full-blood, and it's likely that his wife was as well: otherwise, I think Slytherin would not have been such a close friend. But when their son married a muggle-born, or even a muggle, and the grandson was magical, there would have been trouble.
The "strand of the story" attached to this would be the details of the departure of Slytherin because of his disappointment with Gryffindor in accepting this half-blood prince, his own grandson, into the school. It may have been, at that time, an accepted practice that only pure-bloods were accepted. This would explain why the rules the Sorting Hat applies do not strictly exclude muggle-borns in Slytherin: remember, JKR was planning a character in GoF that was half muggle-born and half squib-born, Mafalda, the Weasley cousin, who was put in Slytherin according to her web site. If no muggle-borns were omitted when the Sorting Hat was created, it would not have any instructions about excluding them. If Gryffindor changed the rules after his grandson was born, or later, it might explain why their friendship fell apart.
Such a grandson could even be the new clue guy, assuming that glasses had been invented by the time he was an old man, say in the late 1200s (although I still think that's pushing it), or assuming that JKR didn't think about the date of the invention of glasses.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 16, 2004 2:03 pm (#1719 of 2923)
Great post Ann. If someone hid their Half-Blood ancestors, like Tom Riddle has hidden that he's a Half-Blood from the Death Eaters, and since there are so few Pure Blood Wizarding families left, there could be a relative of the Half-Blood Prince currently attending Hogwarts.
I don't think they would be in Slytherin, but that would leave three quarters of Hogwarts as possible descendants. Don't know if this fits in with your ideas, but just a thought. If the Half-Blood Prince was a Redhead, think of the possibilities. Besides the Weasley, Albus Dumbledore had auburn colored hair.
Thanks for the response to my post. I hope you have as much fun as I do posting and responding to the different points of view. I'm working on a crazy theory for the Half-Blood Prince. It may not hold water but it will be interesting. ;-) GC
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 16, 2004 5:53 pm (#1720 of 2923)
I was thinking along alchemy lines and came up with further support for James Potter being the Half-Blood Prince. James' animagus form is the white stag, and Lily is named for the white flower that is so often used as a symbol for the albedo stage in alchemy. If that one very popular prediction for the next two books were valid, these two white symbols would necessarily be very significant in the next book specifically. This is still my favorite idea and I sincerely thank you for bringing it up Betelgeuse Black. I have developed many other predictions based on this assumption and through it everything seems to fall into place piece-by-piece (which means it is probably wrong).
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Gerald Costales - Sep 16, 2004 7:32 pm (#1721 of 2923)
Classicsquid592 (re: post# 1722)
Albus is White and Voldermort is the Dark Lord. On the Dumbledore thread, I've posted that Dumbledore was an alchemist before he taught at Hogwarts. And Dumbledore was partners with Flamel also an alchemist.
Looks like I have to check out the Alchemy threads. ;-) GC
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Magical Llama - Sep 17, 2004 2:11 pm (#1722 of 2923)
I still believe the sorting hat will transform into the embodiment of the HBP. McClaggan will probably become the new MoM.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 17, 2004 4:57 pm (#1723 of 2923)
This is a random thought and since, it relates to the Half-Blood Prince. I thought I would re-post it here.
In the United Kingdom of Great Great Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Head of State is the Queen Elizabeth II, while, the Head of Government is the Prime Minister.
I wonder if the title of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince is an indication of similar system of government. Because, the Statute of Wizarding Secrecy could allow for the development of a parallel system of governance.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 17, 2004 7:55 pm (#1724 of 2923)
Great Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy, the King or Queen is the symbolic head of government. The Prime Minister is the elected Head of Government.
There is a House of Commons and House of Lords. The two Houses form the Parliament. The Parliament comes from the French word “parley” to speak. The Magna Charta established a Great Council to help the King rule. The Great Council limited the King’s power. (The US being an ex-British colony share a common democratic heritage.) I hope a British Forum member gives us more information. But, I think I covered the basics.
I don’t know if the Ministry of Magic parallels the British governmental system. If the British Wizarding World parallels the British governmental system, is there a King of the British Wizarding World? Then is the “Half-Blood Prince” the heir to British Wizarding throne if one exists?
If there was a Wizard King, I’d think we would have heard about him by now. There have been 5 books without mentioning a Wizard King. My guess is that if a Wizard King existed, he ruled in the past.
Oliver Cromwell did eliminate the British King, but the Monarchy was reestablished. The British people revolted against Cromwell’s strict Puritanical ways. The Wizard King could also been eliminated but never reestablished.
I don’t think there is a current British Wizard throne.
So much for the history lesson. ;-) GC
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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 17, 2004 8:34 pm (#1725 of 2923)
GC, yes I know that the Queen's role is largely symbolic. But, the monarchs of most constitutional monarchies are held to be the Head of State. Also, it not necessarily the case that we would have heard of him. The only reason that readers knew that there is a Minister of Magic is because, Hagrid mentioned him in passing in Philosopher's Stone however, we did not meet Fudge until book three. So the possibility that J.K. Rowling concealed the existence of such royalty because, she she knew that they would play a role in later books.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 18, 2004 9:11 am (#1726 of 2923)
The Wizengamot seems to be similar to a Great Council not the same as the British Parliament. I don't get the impression that you get elected to the Wizengamot either, probably appointed. Not clear how the Judicial Branch of British government works.
Is the Minister of Magic elected by the general Wizard population? In a Parliamentry system the people vote for a Party. The majority party or a group of parties then form a majority government. The majority party (or group of parties) picks the Prime Minister to head the government. (I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong.)
Don't know how Royality works in the Wizarding World either.
Still convinced that there is currently no British Wizard throne. But, I do accept that a Wizard King may have existed in the past and is probably related to the "Half-Blood Prince". I've posted that a current student at Hogwarts could be a descentant of the "Half-Blood Prince". I'm not confident that the "Half-Blood Prince" is alive but a historical person that relates to story of Book 6 and possibly Book 7.
I've mentioned Lupin as a "Half-Blood Prince" canidate. He is a Half-Blood at least. The question of Royality is of course a question mark. The problem with most canidates is that we have too little background on most of them. JKR has eliminated Harry, Voldermort, and Hagrid will probably be eliminated soon.
It's still a wide open field for canidates who could be the "Half-Blood Prince". Nathan did you have a pick? I think everyone knows my favorite pick, but I've also endorsed Dean Thomas and Remus Lupin just because they're Half-Bloods. (Godric Gryffindor, I belive was a Pure Blood, but is currently my choice for the "Half-Blood Prince".)
Still plenty of time to post suggestions for the "Half-Blood Prince", that is until Book 6 is released. (Then we'll be too busy reading.) I guess I'll be reading posts and posting on the threads until then. (I'm checking the Alchemy thread for clues to "Half-Blood Prince" also) ;-) GC
PS Toyed with the idea that Viktor Krum could be the "Half-Blood Prince". My thinking being that the Prince wouldn't necessarily be exclusively British. But, JKR said we wouldn't be seeing Krum return to Story anytime soon.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 18, 2004 9:52 am (#1727 of 2923)
Perhaps the "Half-Blood Prince" storyline is a reference to the wizarding world reinstating the monarchy. This would also explain why Fudge would leave. Perhaps JKR wanted to introduce a character who was a half-blood and also heir to the wizarding throne in the second book, but decided it would suit the story better if we didn't know he was the prince until the sixth book when that title would actually mean something. I wonder what event might bring about the end of the Wizengamot and the position of Minister of Magic entirely?
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Gerald Costales - Sep 18, 2004 9:58 am (#1728 of 2923)
Classicsquid592
"I wonder what event might bring about the end of the Wizengamot and the position of Minister of Magic entirely?"
May I suggest the return of Voldermort to Power and a Second War against Death Eaters, Voldermort, possibly the Giants, etc.
Just a thought. ;-) GC
Classicsquid592, do you have a canidate for "Half-Blood Prince"?
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 18, 2004 5:41 pm (#1729 of 2923)
That would fit one of my possibility models for the next two books. Actually I do have one candidate for the HBP if you will check posts 1722 and 1703 in this thread. However James Potter would not fit this model, for him to be the HBP, would require that "prince" be a figurative title. I wonder if R.J. Lupin was ever intended to be introduced into the series at an earlier point (I know Sirius Black was). With this model, just about any male half-blood would work. They would not have mentioned their heritage because having royal blood would not have any meaning in the wizarding world as it currently is. If there was once a monarchy in the wizarding world, how long ago it was overthrown? Could it have been connected somehow with the Goblin Rebellion? Perhaps a group wanting to establish the modern ministry of magic joined up with Urg the Unclean and together they assassinated the wizard king, or it could have happened more recently. There are signs of unrest among the goblins once more, and I had predicted somewhere that Voldemort would use this to take the wizarding economy. Pettigrew just popped into my head as a possibility, but the idea was simply too absurd so I will post no more on that particular idea.
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remiden - Sep 18, 2004 6:39 pm (#1730 of 2923)
Lupin could have been placed in to the DADA teacher in the second book, and had his term continued into the third. Lockhart, while absurd and colorful, did nothing for the overall storyline. Without him in the second book, there would have no change to the overall plot and little actual change. Lupin could have done the same role, with better interaction with Harry. Actually, if you read the books, Lockhart does not really fit in. His character is does not seem to flow the way the rest of the characters do. It is almost like he was added in later. Hmmm, starts to think.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 19, 2004 8:56 am (#1731 of 2923)
Classicsquid592 (re: post #1731)
"Pettigrew just popped into my head as a possibility, but the idea was simply too absurd so I will post no more on that particular idea."
Classicsquid592, you may not want to post about Peter. But, here my take on Peter. I hope everyone has some fun reading it.
Here’s a list of known mixes of wizards and other magical creatures.
. . . . . . Hagrid - half giant and wizard. (And probably eliminated as HBP.) And probably Madame Maxine.
. . . . . . Fleur is a quarter-blood, a quadroon, assuming she only has one veela grandmother and three other wizard grandparents.
Cross marriage between Wizards and other magical creatures does exist. Currently we’re aware of only two, Hagrid and Fleur. But, I think one can safely assume that other Mixed Wizard and other magical creatures children do exist.
I’m not saying that Hagrid and Fleur are the tip of the iceberg and that 1,000’s or even 10,000’s of these Mixed children exist. Given the Pure Blood biases of the Wizard World, there are probably fewer than a 1,000. An exact count of Mixed children would probably be impossible to do. Any Mixed children that are born and can be hidden are hidden. Madame Maxine still insists she is just big boned. Mixes like Fleur go unnoticed but the veela blood though diluted still has a powerful influence on any unsuspecting male Wizard.
This leads me to my highly speculative cross - Wizard and House-Elf.
Peter Pettigrew could be a Half-Blood because of his extreme shortness. (Peter is described as being only as tall as a child.) Also, Peter’s willingness to serve with first the Marauders and then Lord Voldermort might be explained because of some House-Elf lineage.
Peter Pettigrew as the HBP does support my feelings that House-Elves will be a force to be reckoned with during the coming VWII because of House-Elves powerful magic. (Wandless, apparate and disapparate in and out of Hogwarts, etc.) And with 100 House-Elves at Hogwarts, a HBP with a House-Elf lineage could rally the Hogwarts’ House-Elves if not all other House-Elves in the fight against Voldermort and the Death Eaters. (The Death Eater are recruiting the Giants to side with them after all. Could Dumbledore being working on similar plans to recruit House-Elves, etc.?)
Peter Pettigrew as the “Half-Blood Prince”. Ridiculous, maybe. But, still possible. ;-) GC
PS Also, reread your posts #1703 and 1722. Still a valid choice. ;-) GC
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El Cronista de Salem - Sep 19, 2004 12:45 pm (#1732 of 2923)
I think that the Half-Blood Prince is Godric Gryffindor. I have write a theory which explains it with varius reasons. Unfortunately, it is in spanish
What do you think?
I think that Dean Thomas couldn't be, because JKR said that she sacrifizied his story for Neville, which is MORE IMPORTANT.
Hagrid is half-blood, ok, but if you go to FAQS- ABOUT THE BOOKS in jkrowling.com, Jo explains clearly what she understands for "half-blood". Semi-wizard! No semi-gigant! And a couple of fans asked her about Hagrid, and she said "no".
Remus... he appeared in third book, and he hadn't mention in the second.
Snape: JKR said that he is not half-blood in the Edinburgh Festival.
Seamus Finnigan: ¡NO! I dont have nothing that could prove that he isn't, but i dont like NOTHING this possibily.
¿McClaggan? Nothing to comment.
¿What about the Dumbledore brothers? Could be they half-blood? Hummm.. i dont think it. People has called them a lot of awful things, as "mad", but never HALF-BLOOD.
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legolas - Sep 19, 2004 3:44 pm (#1733 of 2923)
Could the HBP be Grindlewade? I haven't seen anyone mention him but I have been doing a lot of skimming of this thread.
Although Voldy chose his name by creating an anagram it shows a high level of arrogance at such a young age to get his friend to call him Lord.
Could Grindlewade have thought that he was a cut above everyone and called himself Prince. Voldy may have really respected this dark wizard and possibly modelled himself on him?
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riddikulus - Sep 19, 2004 3:44 pm (#1734 of 2923)
I agree that I think it's more than possible GG is the HBP. I also think he's related to Harry. I find it too much a coincidence that the Potters home was in GODRICS' Hollow. That Harry would pull GODRIC Gryffindors sword from the hat. That Voldy is the heir of Slytherin and the evil in the story... if there must be a good counterpart/a Harry... I think that it's most likely it's the heir of the good, muggle friendly, GG. I was really hoping it be Dumbledore or a relation to him, like Aberforth, as i'm not quite unconvinced he's not a relation to GG... but the clues are pointing more to the other, for me, at this point. I also wanted to believe that Harry is related in some way to DD, but if he had any living relatives, he wouldn't be with the Dursleys.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 19, 2004 6:09 pm (#1735 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"I also wanted to believe that Harry is related in some way to DD, but if he had any living relatives, he wouldn't be with the Dursleys."
I tried that one too Riddikulus, but could not imagine either Albus or Aberforth raising a baby, so alas, earwax.
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Hollywand - Sep 19, 2004 6:19 pm (#1736 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Just food for thought....don't have a chimera if you don't agree.
Rowling has set up as a premise that blood lineage is not a good predictor for magical ability. So.....perhaps the "heir" of Gryffindor becomes the "heir" by demonstrating a certain level of spiritual/magical development, rather than blood lineage. In this way, Harry could be "heir" to Gryffindor's lineage, a successor to Albus Dumbledore without Albus having to share genetic material with the Potters or Evans family.
So...Godric Gryffindor could be refered to as the Half Blood Prince in that his blood was not the major factor is his ascension to a position of leadership, but the will of the Wizarding World.
I think anyone who has the nerve to name Dumbledore's Phoenix, Fawkes, after the guy that tried to dynamite Pariliament has a rather ironic attitude toward royalty.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 19, 2004 6:27 pm (#1737 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Once again, 10 points for original thinking Hollywand!
Toddles off to ponder...
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Phoenix song - Sep 19, 2004 8:57 pm (#1738 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Hollywand: "I think anyone who has the nerve to name Dumbledore's Phoenix, Fawkes, after the guy that tried to dynamite Parliament has a rather ironic attitude toward royalty."
I'm afraid that I don't know the history behind this event. Could you explain it to me? It may grant me some additional insight into JKR's view of royalty and government.
"So...Godric Gryffindor could be referred to as the Half Blood Prince in that his blood was not the major factor is his ascension to a position of leadership, but the will of the Wizarding World."
I agree with you that the Heir of Gryffindor needs not necessarily be related to GG by blood. I think that choices is such an integral factor in the books that it would be important for JKR to point out that blood is not the most important factor in life. I personally believe that Harry took on GG's mantle when he battled Voldemort in the CoS. I think that he in effect "chose" to become GG's heir by: risking his life to rescue Ginny; deciding to fight Riddle even though it seemed as if he didn't stand a chance; letting Riddle know that it was Harry's "common muggle born" mother who--in effect--defeated his future self; and in defending Dumbledore in the face of his enemy. It was then that Harry reached out and grasped the handle of GG's sword. I believe that it was then that Harry became the Heir of Gryffindor, regardless of blood relation.
It has been suggested that the Half-blood Prince may have gained that title because of his affinity for those of "non-pure blood". I think that this explanation is probably the best that we've heard. We know that Voldemort considers Dumbledore to be the "champion of commoners, mudbloods, and muggles." Perhaps GG also gained this title because he defended the "Half-blood" student's right to study at Hogwarts.
Barbie
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Hollywand - Sep 19, 2004 9:10 pm (#1739 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Phoenix Song! There is a reference on the Lex to Fawkes, named for Guy Fawkes, a chap who planted quite a bit of dynamite beneath the Houses of Parliament. Fawkes was foiled in his attempt, but Fawkes night is celebrated in the UK with fireworks, and poor Guy is burned in effigy in celebration. I laughed out loud when I first made the connection between the phoenix and Fawkes, and the source confirmed. Rowling is mischievous!
Great points on Harry's actions in the Chamber of Secrets; you may have just pointed to what Rowling refers to as "The thing that Harry discovers that relates to the Half Blood Prince", meaning, Harry's choices have already made him the heir Of Gryffindor, in fact, Dumbledore points this out to him at the close of the book.
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Phoenix song - Sep 19, 2004 9:18 pm (#1740 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Thanks for the information Hollywand! I'll go and look up this reference. It is ironic that she would name DD's phoenix companion after a person that is "burned" in effigy. I agree that JKR is mischevious! I can see her sense of humor and it cracks me up!
Thank you for your insight into my post, as well. I do think that DD was trying to let Harry know that he was a "true Gryffindor" in the most pure sense of the words.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 20, 2004 5:39 am (#1741 of 2923)
Just posted this question in the Dumbledore thread, I thought it could fit here also.
With Harry and Voldermort sharing Brother Wands, how would that final confrontation occur? We already know what happened last time with the Brother Wands locking and releasing the shadows of Voldermort's recent victims in the graveyard. Wouldn't a second confrontation be another repeat of the first confrontation with the wands locking yet again?
Maybe Fawkes, because of the Feather core, or even the "Half-Blood Prince" will be the tie breaker, to allow Voldermort to be defeated. ;-) GC
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 20, 2004 5:55 am (#1742 of 2923)
I liked the idea of Harry being the heir of GG and the reasoning behind it. Thanks, Hollywand. I think it is interesting that James and Lily Potter were hiding in Godric's Grove, though. I think this shows that Harry is really like his parents. I think his parents were also "true" Gryffindor heirs. However, I also agree with the reasoning that your choices make you the heir, not your parents. Harry just happens to have both items. I think the half-blood prince will be a Gryffindor (Godric or James) since they will fight for the half-blood and muggle-born wizards.
Betelgeuse
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Phoenix song - Sep 20, 2004 6:05 am (#1743 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GC: The priori incantatem only comes into effect if the two wand holders shoot out spells at the same time that meet at the same place. (I believe, so please correct me if I'm wrong.) So it would be possible for the two wizards to "battle" one another as long as their spells didn't meet in mid-air. Voldemort was able to "crucio" Harry, so we know that they can inflict curses upon one another. I don't see a protection from Fawkes' feather in this instance.
I'm not sure how the Half-blood Prince will play out in this instance. We've tried to figure out so much about this character and what he'll bring to book 6, but in the end it is all speculation until that glorious day when we have the book clutched eagerly in our greedy little hands. (looking forward in anticipation!)
I do think that the HBP will bring new insight into how Harry will be able to defeat Voldemort, though. I think that he will be able to provide information to Harry that will allow him to have greater access to Voldemort's weaknesses. (Similar to the information that R2D2 was storing that would provide plans to the Death Star's only weakness.)
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 20, 2004 7:04 am (#1744 of 2923)
There is still that off chance that the Wands could lock again. And I am hoping Dumbledore is preparing Harry for that.
I like the R2D2 and HBP reference. Darth Vadar is a Lord of the Sith. Voldermort is the Dark Lord. I know we won't hear a, "Harry, I am your father!", line from Voldermort. (That is unless it's in fan fiction.)
I hope to avoid the wands locking in a duel that Harry isn't forced to ambush Voldermort. Voldermort would more than gladly AK Harry in the back or unaware. But, Harry being the Hero shouldn't be forced into that situation.
A link between the Potter's living in Godric Hollow and (for those who believe) Godric Gryffindor being the HBP maybe in Book 6 or 7.
If anyone is the Heir of Gryffindor, my vote is Harry, whether by blood or ability. Dumbledore is for ability over the Pure Blood bias of the Slytherins. And I can't imagine Godric Gryffindor having a Pure Blood bias either. Some have already suggested that this was the issue that caused Godric and Salazar to split.
Just waiting for Book 6 like the rest of you. ;-) GC
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Julie Aronson - Sep 20, 2004 7:40 am (#1745 of 2923)
GC:
Look under the Voldemort/Harry connections discussion for my argument on why Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor.
Either way, I think we're right. There must be someone to balance the Heir of Slytherin.
Julie
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 20, 2004 5:15 pm (#1746 of 2923)
"Maybe Fawkes, because of the Feather core, or even the "Half-Blood Prince" will be the tie breaker, to allow Voldermort to be defeated. ;-) GC"
Gerald, I have a prediction on who the tie breaker might be in post# 521 in this thread [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (it was my first post, made the day I joined the site :-) )
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Gerald Costales - Sep 20, 2004 5:49 pm (#1747 of 2923)
Julie (re: post #1747)
I remember reading this post. Since Godric is not a common name (well at least not in modern times) the fact that there are two Godrics in "The Battle of Maldon" could be important. I made that post a favorite place so I could locate it for future reference.
Classicsquid592 (re: post # 1748)
Some people have suggested that "the One" to defeat Voldermort is a person besides Harry possibly Neville because of his July 30th B-day and the "born as the 7th month dies" reference. I've been wanting to check the wand threads because Harry and Voldermort both have "Brother Wands" with the same Fawkes phoenix feather core.
But, here's an interesting thought that came to mind while reading your post "the One" reference could be Neville's wand not necessarily Neville, not to diminish any future role Neville may have in the Story. Also JKR was real careful that the Prophecy was touched by only Harry and Neville then broken. ;-) GC
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Gerald Costales - Sep 21, 2004 6:26 am (#1748 of 2923)
Classicsquid592 You might want to check my post #127 on the "Wands" thread. I used some of your ideas in a post. Hope you don't mind.
Thanks for the inspiration. ;-) GC
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Kevin Lane - Sep 21, 2004 12:44 pm (#1749 of 2923)
Hi everyone, this is my first post, so be easy.
Well when I first read the name of the new HP book (in my local paper no less, boy I was behind on things) the first thing that popped into my mind was a tall, thin man, cast in purple shadows looking moody and evil. Don't ask me why, I don't know. Anyways, a few people here have analyzed the book titles and I thought I might have a go at it.
1. First plant, animal, or mineral
The Sorcerer's Stone: Magical object The Chamber of Secrets: Place The Prisoner of Azkaban: Person The Goblet of Fire: Magic Object? Maybe, but I’m leaning towards Judge The Order of the Phoenix: Organization The Half Blood Prince: ???
2. No one has ever told Harry about it before, even if it was hinted at.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Well this one’s easy, Harry didn’t know anything magical in this book. The Chamber of Secrets: Not even mentioned The Prisoner of Azkaban: This one is tricky. Sirius is mentioned, but not to Harry. Although Harry had heard about Azkaban, no one every told him SPECIFICALLY. Malfoy thought he was explaining it to Grabbe/Golye The Goblet of Fire: Again, not even mentioned. The Order of the Phoenix: Not sure on this one, can someone tell me how Harry found out about ‘the old crowd’ Wasn’t it in the hospital room, when they thought Harry was sleeping?
3. Each title has been important before but some reason brings it back to importance.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Nicholas Flamel, Voldie tries to get his hands on it brings it into promenince The Chamber of Secrets: The petrifying of people. The Prisoner of Azkaban: Happened 13 years previous, but Sirius’ escape brings it back to attention The Goblet of Fire: The tournament being brought back The Order of the Phoenix: Voldies return caused the reformation or the OoTP
4. Each title, whether good bad or impartial, is eventually used for evil.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Well Voldie coming back is evil. The Chamber of Secrets: Killing Muggle borns is evil. So is the Tom Riddle coming out of the diary. The Prisoner of Azkaban: Well, I guess Peter returning to Voldie is evil. The Goblet of Fire: Magic GOF being hoodwinked into sending Harry to Voldie to Voldie can return is most definitely evil The Order of the Phoenix: Well Kreacher makes Harry believe that Sirius is at the MOM, which results in Sirius’ death.
5. The effect of each title in the book causes the evil effect in the next one.
The Sorcerer's Stone: Well first one, connect it to Harry’s parents dieing The Chamber of Secrets: Well if Voldie has returned using the SS/PS, Malfoy would already be a death eater and most likely not shopping the bookshop. The Prisoner of Azkaban: Hmm, this one is a toughie. Can’t think of anything now, except that if the Weaslys hadn’t gone to Egypt….. The Goblet of Fire: Pettigrew escaping, helping Voldie, finding out about the tournament, ect…. The Order of the Phoenix: Easy, if Voldie hadn’t come back, there would be no reason to reform the ootp.
6. Some portion of the Wizarding world knew about the title whatever back when it was important before, and the only reason Harry finds out about it is because it comes back into prominence. These are pretty easy, so you figure them out.
7. Harry although he knows less than everybody at the beginning, always knows more than everyone at the end. I don’t feel like explaining these either.
Ok well, also the meaning of ‘the half blood prince’
I was raised pretty religiously so the first thing I thought of was The Prince of Darkness (aka Satan from the Bible). But then I thought to thinking, what is the only kind of government system currently used in the WW that might have a supreme ruler?
The answer: Voldemort and his Supporters
Think about it, if you ever cross Voldie, its “off with your head”
So I’m thinking that THB might have second in command before and is now coming back.
Anyways, this might not make any sense, feel free to pick it apart, whatever, I don’t care its not like I’ll owe you money if I’m wrong.
Oh by the way, I probably read about 80 percent of the almost 2 thousand posts here.
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sjcuk13 - Sep 21, 2004 1:21 pm (#1750 of 2923)
Some good point there Kevin ... getting very tired thinking about them all ... goes off to bed to think about them
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1751 to 1800)
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 21, 2004 2:07 pm (#1751 of 2923)
Re: post 1750. Thanks Gerald, I'm on my way there.
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Ann - Sep 21, 2004 3:57 pm (#1752 of 2923)
Kevin, I really like your 3, 6, and 7: the title thing/person is revived from an earlier important appearance; its earlier importance is well known by many in the wizarding world (and, usually, Hermione!); and Harry begins knowing less about it than anyone but ends up knowing more (although that is a bit of a stretch in the case of OotP).
I'm less convinced by the idea that the title thing always turns to evil. I don't think the Order does at all; and the Stone and the Chamber don't in themselves lead to evil, though they might be put to evil uses. And I don't understand 1 at all, since we know the HBP is a person.
But I think your idea about early importance revived sounds very likely indeed for a half-blood prince.
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Kevin Lane - Sep 21, 2004 4:42 pm (#1753 of 2923)
Well I mean I didn't mean that the Title whatever BECOMES evil, but something bad or evil usually comes becuase of it, in this case, Kreacher using the order's hq to trick Harry into going to the MOM. And don't forget, the only way Harry knew about 'the weapon' was becuase of the Order.
And I wouldn't be too sure the The Halfblood prince is a person, could it be an insult, and idea, heck it could be an animal.
I mean when we heard the name Order of the Phoenix, some people thought it would be an award.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 21, 2004 7:45 pm (#1754 of 2923)
Kevin Lane (re: post #1755)
"And I wouldn't be too sure the The Halfblood prince is a person, could it be an insult, . . ."
I've actually proposed that it was the "Mudblood Prince" and that over the years its been changed to a more acceptable "Half-Blood Prince".
Someone has agrued that James "the Prince of Half-Blood" Potter is the "Half-Blood Prince" because of his support for Half-Bloods and Muggle Borns.
Welcome the the Forum Kevin. ;-) GC
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Kevin Lane - Sep 21, 2004 8:03 pm (#1755 of 2923)
Yeah I could see that.
King Weasly and Prince Potter.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 22, 2004 5:33 pm (#1756 of 2923)
Yay for James Potter, the potential HBP!
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Murphy - Sep 22, 2004 5:40 pm (#1757 of 2923)
I believe Harry's the Half Blood Prince...To me, it really can't be any other way...whether or not he has ties to actual royalty--either in the muggle word thru his mom or the wizarding world thru dad--I think he's the prince. Also, for those who think it's Voldemort, the word prince refers to a child--someone not yet of age--so unless the title is used in the past sense, while describing LV's childhood, it doesn't fit for him.
Anyway, here's a few reasons I think the HBP is Harry:
1. He has tons of gold in his vault that his parents left him, but jkr never explained how james and lily accumulated such wealth--weren't they both fairly young when they died? It doesn't seem like they could have saved up that much...perhaps one of them inherited money from wealthy parents...
2. the Lord voldemeort / harry contrast. I think we will learn more about both of them in HBP...both are half bloods, but harry's the only one who currently fits the "prince" description.
well i don't have great reasons, but i do think hp is the hbp...
by the way, does anyone know about voldemort and harry's lineage?
were james potter and voldemort's dad on sirius's family tree? seems like they'd have to be, as all purebloods are related...assuming their purebloods, of course.
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Madame Librarian - Sep 22, 2004 6:16 pm (#1758 of 2923)
Murphy, JKR herself has said that neither Harry nor Voldemort are the Half-Blood Prince. Now, there is a possibility that she is pulling our leg, but probably 110% of her fans think not. It's not her style to mislead. Confuse, yes; stump, yes, but nothing more.
Regarding the word "prince," without even looking up the definition I would venture that there are multiple meanings. One of them is surely, as you say, the son of a ruling king or queen. But the word is also a general term for ruler of a country or principality. And, as far as being of age, think Prince Charles. He's a prince, but, my goodness, he's older than I am! And, there' Machiavelli's little treatise on leadership, political power and general savvy about getting people to do what you want called The Prince wherein he is using the term in its generic sense of leader or ruler.
Ciao. Barb
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Murphy - Sep 22, 2004 6:42 pm (#1759 of 2923)
Thanks, I wasn't aware JKR had excluded HP and LV from being the HBP.
I can't wait for the book to come out!!
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Star Crossed - Sep 22, 2004 7:25 pm (#1760 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Sep 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Murphy (Ha ha, nice name.),
Voldemort's dad was a muggleborn. Voldemort's mother was the pureblood.
EDIT: Though if she ever was on the tree, she would probably be burnt off after marrying Tom Riddle.
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Phoenix song - Sep 22, 2004 7:25 pm (#1761 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Murphy: Although Harry has been ruled out as the HBP, I still think that he's the Heir of Gryffindor. If you haven't yet read up on these theories, please do a "search" and tell us what you think.
I personally believe that the HBP is a historical figure, like Godric Gryffindor. There have been suggestions that the HBP does not have to be a literal title so much as it can be a title like "champion of mudbloods and muggles" or "Weasley is our King." It could possibly be a nickname, an insult, or an honorary title.
There are lots of great ideas on this forum, but they'll remain ideas until we get book 6. We're all anxious as well!
Barbie
EDIT: JKR has said that James Potter inherited his money, and didn't need to work. This would be the reason that Harry inherited so much money despite his parents dying so young.
There are a lot of theories on how James and Voldemort wouldn't have been directly on Sirius' family tree despite being related to them. I'm not "into" ancestry, but if you're not a "direct" descendent with a "Black" family name you're not likely to be on the tapestry. They could still be related, however.
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Murphy - Sep 23, 2004 1:19 am (#1762 of 2923)
But wasn't Mrs. Weasley on the tapestry, burned out? I don't have the book handy but I seem to remember both Weasley's playing into Sirius's lineage. Though now that I think about it, I am not sure whether they were included in the tapestry, or just mentioned by Sirius as related to him...
Two off-subject notes:
1. Sorry I wrote in net speak in my first few posts. I am just so used to doing so, and so excited about finally getting to chat with others about HP theories--I've looked around for good forums for some time, these are by far the best I've found--that I forgot about your policy. I tried to edit my posts when I read another post reminding someone to not use net speak, but I guess too much time had passed. Anyway.
2. Should I have a HP-inspired name? I didn't realize HP-names were kind of the norm until Star Crossed commmented on my name. lol at me.
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Murphy - Sep 23, 2004 1:21 am (#1763 of 2923)
Oh, and I also think Harry's the heir of Gryffindor, as I have since I read CoS. I just can't see it being any other way. ( =
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Steve Newton - Sep 23, 2004 6:45 am (#1764 of 2923)
Librarian
Since the news is that the title of the book will be HP and the Half-Blood Prince, should this forums title be changed? (Add the hyphen?)
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remiden - Sep 23, 2004 7:13 am (#1765 of 2923)
To Murphy and Steve Newton's questions: No, it does not matter.
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Steve Newton - Sep 23, 2004 8:01 am (#1766 of 2923)
Librarian
Actually, I was mostly joking.
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Phoenix song - Sep 23, 2004 8:41 am (#1767 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Murphy: "But wasn't Mrs. Weasley on the tapestry, burned out?"
"Molly and I are cousins by marriage and Arthur's something like my second cousin once removed. But there's no point in looking for them on here--if ever a family was a bunch of blood traitors it's the Weasleys." (OoP, Ch 6, pg. 113, U.S. ed.)
I take this to mean that the Weasley family would never have been included on the tapestry in the first place. Their "fondness" for muggles would have been well known and they were probably ostracized by the "pure-blood" fanatics in their family.
I don't think that the thread needs to be edited to include the hyphen in the Half Blood Prince title. I think that most of us know that it had been changed by JKR for clarification purposes. (What was the theory? Harry Potter and the Horribly Splinched Vampire?)
Murphy: I couldn't speak for Star Crossed, but I'm sure that she wasn't being sarcastic about your name not being "Potter inspired". When I see the name "Murphy" it always reminds me of Murphy's law. Perhaps this was her intention. You don't need to change your name unless you'd like to do so. Many members go by their proper names, their first names, their nicknames, made up names or whatever happens to suit them personally. Choose one that you are comfortable with.
If you do want to change your name, you can do so by going to the "change password or preferences" link in the teal tool bar. Please be sure to add an additional line that will let us know that you were "formerly known as Murphy" so that we can make the mental shift. Again, though, you do not need to do this unless you would like to do so, as you're name is perfectly fine.
I can fully understand your glee in finding more mature people to discuss Potter with. I had tried looking at other forums before joining this one (which is by far the best!) I couldn't stand to read all of the posts regarding which actor was "hottest" and so on. They would also have literal inches of tag-lines and smilies that would drive me insane, (and more net speak than was acceptable). I felt as if I needed to have a translator nearby, and I speak English as my first-and only-language. I'm glad that you are enjoying your forum experience!
Barbie
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Chemyst - Sep 23, 2004 3:37 pm (#1768 of 2923)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
A full month ago, this thread was buzzing about hyphens. Steve Newton just brought it up again in #1766. Here is today's quote from TLC:
As a followup to our notice that, in contrast to the way the title's been used on JKRowling.com, there will be a hyphen in the American edition of HBP, we've just confirmed it will also be in place in the British edition. The book will be Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince whether you be Yank or Brit. This decision was made to be consistent with the use of the term in rest of the series.
... consistent with use of the term in the rest of the series??? When is the term used in the rest of the series?
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hellocello3200 - Sep 23, 2004 6:35 pm (#1769 of 2923)
I belive the term "half-blood" is what they are refering to, not HBP.
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Star Crossed - Sep 24, 2004 12:13 pm (#1770 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
2. Should I have a HP-inspired name? I didn't realize HP-names were kind of the norm until Star Crossed commmented on my name. lol at me.
I knew I should have said why I said what I said. (Ha ha, try saying that a lot.) The reason I said the name thing is the fact that Murphy is my last name. I just get amused when I see it. I am entirely, entirely sorry.
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 24, 2004 6:16 pm (#1771 of 2923)
Phoenix song,
Do you recall where JKR said that James Potter inherited his money and didn't need to work? I'd like to investigate this a bit due to the idea that James might be the HBP.
Thanks, Betelgeuse
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remiden - Sep 24, 2004 8:26 pm (#1772 of 2923)
It said that the Potters defied Lord Voldemort three times. Maybe Voldemort is kin to Harry in some way concerning the HBP title, not as in grandfather or uncle, but rather as in second or third cousins. Possibly Voldemort's mother was James's grandmother, possibly having a child before she met Voldemort's father. Here is a scenario. James Potter and Tom Riddle are both in line for the title of prince (of what, who knows), and James beats him out of the title and fortune in some way, defying Voldemort for the first time. Maybe the lord form Voldemort's name actually does have a lord meaning. Considering this scenario, having Harry born would be another obstacle in the way for Voldemort to acquire the prince title he wants, so that was another reason he chose Harry to attack in stead of Neville. I know this is simply reaching, but it would delve further into where Harry's money came from. Surely the reason for JKR's secrecy into that matter will come to light in the next book, so why not tie it into the HBP line.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 25, 2004 5:16 am (#1773 of 2923)
JKR will also be revealing what profession the Potter were in. JKR said if we knew the Potters' profession that it would have given away too much. (It's just like JKR to tease us with hidden details. But, I think it's just good clean fun for some readers to post and to think about those hidden details. Hey, posting keeps me busy at home, while I'm not drinking or smoking.)
Also, I doubt they worked as Aurors, dentists, teachers, or in the Ministry. If I we to guess, I'd choose ALCHEMISTS. Heck, could have been assistants to Flamel. ;-) GC
PS Didn't Flamel own some kinda stone thingy? Geez, I can't remember. Better start rereading Book 1. ;-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 25, 2004 9:51 am (#1774 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Betelgeuse Black: " Do you recall where JKR said that James Potter inherited his money and didn't need to work? I'd like to investigate this a bit due to the idea that James might be the HBP."
Sure, I've finally found the copy of the transcript that I've read it from. I'm terrible at searches, but here goes!
"What did James and Lily Potter do when they were alive? Well, I can't go into too much detail, because you're going to find out in future books. But James inherited plenty of money, so he didn't need a well-paid profession. You'll find out more about both Harry's parents later." AOL Online Chat Transcript, October 19, 2000 found on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hope that it was helpful!
Barbie
EDIT: "PS Didn't Flamel own some kinda stone thingy? Geez, I can't remember. Better start rereading Book 1. ;-) GC "
Gee, do I detect a "wee" bit of sarcasm?
"If I we to guess, I'd choose ALCHEMISTS." Interesting theory. But what clues have you found to back it up? I don't think that we've seen evidence that either Potter was particularly adept at potions. James was good at transfiguration, and Lily was good at charms. I would think that being an excellent potion maker would be important to being an alchemist. Just my thoughts, though.
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Ann - Sep 25, 2004 12:51 pm (#1775 of 2923)
The idea that James and Lily had some sort of connection with alchemy and Flamel is really interesting. I wonder if that's why she gave us that first draft page out of PS/SS in which the stone was in the Potter's vault!
Can't think of any other evidence, though. It's odd, really, that alchemy isn't taught at Hogwarts, when it's apparently so important in the wizarding world. But perhaps that is what advanced potions is! And if James was really, really good at that, perhaps that's why Snape would rather teach something else--he's constantly being reminded of exercises where James did better than he did!
(But this is all getting really speculative.)
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Madame Kulich - Sep 25, 2004 8:22 pm (#1776 of 2923)
Remiden - I thought I read somewhere that Voldemort is in no way related to Harry, uncle, cousin or otherwise. I think it is on jkrowling.com. I will go there and check it out.
I checked on jkrowling.com, and she said that Harry is not a close relative of Voldemort and not a decendent of Salazaar Slytherin. So, I guess with that information, Harry could be a distant relative of Voldemort's on VOldemort's mother's side.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 26, 2004 10:58 am (#1777 of 2923)
Phoenix song (re: post #1776)
The fact that Prongs, etc. were able to self teach themselves to be animagi shows excellent Wizarding abilities. Similar to the Weasley twins in their talents.
You could possibly intern to become an Alchemist or just start doing errands and cleaning up and then move up slowly in responsibilies and duties. I imagine it being a 20 to 25 year process. Alchemy could be a career only an independently wealthy Wizard and his wife could pursue.
Outside of Flamel, there is no mention of any other Alchemists. (I have speculated that Dumbledore could possibly have been an Alchemist before taking up teaching. I doubt Snape started teaching after leaving Hogwarts, either)
If you were independently wealthy and a Wizard, what career would you choose? Auror, too dangerous look what happened to the Longbottoms. Own a business in Hogsmead, too boring plus you're wealthy. Work for the Ministry, you could end of in a small dept. like Arthur or an assistant like Percy.
How about something really challenging like Alchemy. There is that lead to gold thing and possible immortality. ;-) GC (Not really sarcasm just kidding sometimes.)
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Phoenix song - Sep 26, 2004 12:56 pm (#1778 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I'll be honest with you GC, the whole alchemy thing is way over my head. It's not that I don't see that there are obvious references to alchemy in the books, it's just that I don't understand the thread itself so it scares me off altogether. Maybe you guys that are alchemy masters could produce some "remedial" (Snape reference) alchemy basics so that the rest of us that are floundering in it could "catch up" and better understand it. (I hope that I'm not the only one that this is "beyond"!)
I agree that all of your points are valid. If I were a wealthy wizard with a decent amount of talent, skills, and brain I would probably choose to study alchemy as well.
I hope that book 6 is when JKR lets us in on the secrets behind the Potters' professions, their heritage, and their past together. Too many blank spaces in Harry's history makes me uneasy about his future.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 26, 2004 2:54 pm (#1779 of 2923)
Phoenix song - You're right, I started reading the Alchemy thread and it is probably the Rocket science of the Wizarding world.
JKR said that there would be no need for prequels. I'm confident by the end of Book 7 most the our questions will be answered. But, until then let's post.
The Alchemy thing maybe overdone by me, but most of the ideas I go with are those that make sense or are outlandishly fun (you may have read a few of those). Heck, James and Lily could well turn out to be the agents for the Weird Sisters or own a broom repair shop or some other Wizard related job. There's that possibility that James and Lily had jobs in the Muggle world, but what newspaper reporters (to Clark Kent).
If anything is important, it's where James inherited his money. That will be the window to James' past and possibly Harry's future. I hope it's not one of those sins of the father or grandfather haunting the children in the present type of things.
I really don't think there is any direct relationship between the Potters and Voldermort. Just checked to see what thread I was in.
AND GODRIC GRYFFINDOR IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE not James Potter! ;-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 26, 2004 3:01 pm (#1780 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
AND GODRIC GRYFFINDOR IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE not James Potter! ;-) GC
I agree totally!
But I feel that I must add that I believe that Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor by choice, (choosing to fight Gryffindor's cause) if not by blood. (I afraid that people may confuse the HBP with the HoG, and just wanted to clarify my stance along with GC.)
Barbie
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 26, 2004 3:49 pm (#1781 of 2923)
I think that the alchemy/Lily and James's professions is on topic. James could be the Half-Blood Prince (though I suspect it is Gryffindor). I think it is very possible they were alchemists because of the page Jo gave us on her site. The stone was found in Harry's vault because his parents got it somehow (I couldn't really make most of it out). If they were Flamel's assistants, they could have easily found it or taken it or whatever.
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Saud - Sep 26, 2004 5:08 pm (#1782 of 2923)
Edited by Sep 26, 2004 5:08 pm
If you have alot of money, why work? And if you are good at heart and there are DE's and LV lurking around in the streets, then the only thing a good wealthy man might do is to help in the cause of the good by participating in stopping evil. Hence, being a member of the OotP.
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Saud - Sep 26, 2004 5:21 pm (#1783 of 2923)
I dont know exactly where to post this question. But I am placing it here.
How long had the war between the old OotP and the DE's lasted? And what was the way in which the war was fought?
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Phoenix song - Sep 26, 2004 7:17 pm (#1784 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I'm not positive, but I believe that the war was on for 11 years before Harry was "marked" as Voldemort's equal. I think that it was 11 years of Voldemort's rise, and 11 years before the attempt to steal the stone. Harry was 1 at the murder of his parents, he was 11 when he went to Hogwarts, at the end of his 11th year he faced Voldemort and Quirrell with the stone.
Does anybody know for certain? I'm not finding anything definite on my search.
Barbie
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vball man - Sep 26, 2004 9:03 pm (#1785 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
What if James was Flamel's grandson? That would explain why they have so much money - they've been making gold. It would also explain why Harry's vault [almost] had the PS.
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lobelia - Sep 27, 2004 9:46 am (#1786 of 2923)
James inherited money from his ancestor that invented the snitch. Someone from Godric's Hollow invented the golden snitch. I agree with the post from Accio book Six in the Youngest Seeker in a Century, that Harry's family is from Godric's Hollow and that he inherited his talent from James' side and also the original plans in someone's private collection as alluded to in JKR's Quidditch Through The Ages.
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lobelia - Sep 27, 2004 10:19 am (#1787 of 2923)
I edited to late. I looked for the post from Accio Book Six who posted in the Youngest Seeker in a Century thread. It is now gone and must of been munched. The above post was only guesses except for the information from the Quidditch book.
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Madame Librarian - Sep 27, 2004 3:03 pm (#1788 of 2923)
From the Lexicon section on Quidditch:
...The third and most important ball is the Golden Snitch. The Golden Snitch is a tiny ball that has wings and is enchanted. The first Snitch was a tiny bird that was very small and very tiny, but changes to the rules made it illegal to use the actual bird. The current enchanted, winged ball version of the Snitch was invented by Bowman Wright of Godric's Hollow.
Hope this clears something up.
Ciao. Barb
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 1, 2004 6:03 am (#1789 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Edited by Kip Carter Oct 1, 2004 6:25 pm
I think you are quite wrong there, Phoenix Song.
I edited the following all capital letter post to normal capitalizations. This is the second post that I have had to edit and I have sent the poster an email. If I have to edit another post with all capital letters by lord voldythingy, I will place him on Moderated status. - Kip I THINK YOU ARE QUITE WRONG THERE PHOENIX SONG .
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Phoenix song - Oct 1, 2004 7:44 am (#1790 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
lord voldythingy: Can you be more specific as to where you think that I am wrong? In my last post I was attempting to answer a question regarding the time line of the rise of Voldemort. I quite specifically asked for information if anyone believed that I was mistaken.
"I'm not positive, but I believe that the war was on for 11 years before Harry was 'marked' as Voldemort's equal. I think that it was 11 years of Voldemort's rise, and 11 years before the attempt to steal the stone. Harry was 1 at the murder of his parents, he was 11 when he went to Hogwarts, at the end of his 11th year he faced Voldemort and Quirrell with the stone.
Does anybody know for certain? I'm not finding anything definite on my search."
A previous post of mine stated that I believed that Godric Gryffindor was the HBP. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. Why not venture an opinion as to who you think the HBP is, then?
I'm not adverse to being corrected, or being disagreed with, however it would seem as if you could be a little bit more specific as to your disagreement.
Barbie
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 1, 2004 3:13 pm (#1791 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Lord VT,
Perhaps you were not aware of the fact that on the Internet, all capitals means you are shouting. It is usually considered rude.
All lower-case lettering is also severely frowned upon, with the sole exception being in chat. So it is usually safest to follow established capitalization rules.
Marcus
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 2, 2004 12:18 am (#1792 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Sorry I was a little rude there, but i think that Godric Griffindor can't be HBP as: 1)He has probably died (one cannot live a thousand years) 2)He wasnot probably a half blood otherwise he couldn't have been a friend of "pure blood" Salzar Slytherin.(we know that he was his friend as told by sorting hat in OoTP) 3)on the other hand i think that Seamus Finnigan is either the HBP or related to it because of : 1)He is a half blood 2)Why shorting hat took a long time to decide where to short him(It's probably because he was HBP or the heir to Godric Griffindor and the hat was confused and startled to find the true heir 3)His hair is sandy(like the lion man revealed by JKR who is to appear in the sixth book and is probably
HBP) PS:I was that idiot lord voldithingy
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 3:29 am (#1793 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
headwig: (a.k.a. lord voldithingy) I'm not certain if you have read many of the previous posts, but many of your reasons for GG not being the HBP have already been sorted out.
"1)He has probably died (one cannot live a thousand years)"
I feel that GG could still be the HBP and we could be receiving his story through a means such as the pensieve. There are numerous methods of communicating in the wizarding world that are not available to muggles, so I would not presume to cut off that avenue of thought just because someone may have "passed on".
We have also discussed how the term "half blood prince" could also be ascribed to one who was of pure blood lineage. It could be a term that is given to one who is sympathetic to those who aren't "pure bloods" as Slytherin would have termed them to be. Recall, if you will, that Voldemort refers to Dumbledore as being the champion of commoners, mud bloods and muggles in the graveyard scene in GoF. I believe that this terminology is quite likely similar to the Half-blood Prince. A person would not necessarily have to be a literal half-blooded member of a royal family to be considered the person that is prince of the half-born. Do you catch the distinction? If not, please also consider that Ron Weasley is called a "King" in OoP. He's not actually a King, but has inherited that title. It's a sarcastic title given to him by the Slytherins, that is later embraced with affection by the rest of the school. The same could be true of a hero of the half-bloods. Perhaps a school founder who stood up to his best friend who believed that there were those who were not worthy to study magic at Hogwarts could be called the Half-blood Prince regardless of his bloodline. JKR has allowed us to know that it is our choices that are more important than our bloodlines. Godric Gryffindor chose to disagree with his best friend because he felt that he was right in allowing talent to be the deciding factor over blood.
"2)He was not probably a half blood otherwise he couldn't have been a friend of 'pure blood' Salzar Slytherin."
Another possibility could be that Gryffindor may not have been a full blood without the knowledge of Slytherin. It doesn't seem as if the Death Eaters know that Voldemort is half-blood. It may be possible that GG had never told him of his true lineage.
"2)Why sorting hat took a long time to decide where to sort him(It's probably because he was HBP or the heir to Godric Griffindor and the hat was confused and startled to find the true heir"
It's true that the sorting hat took a long time to sort Seamus, but it also took a long time to sort Neville and Harry as well. I'm not denying the possibility that it could be Seamus, but I don't think that this is the strongest argument for your case. Also, I don't believe that the sorting hat is "startled" by much. I think that he has a great access to information in Dumbledore's office.
"3)His hair is sandy(like the lion man revealed by JKR who is to appear in the sixth book and is probably HBP." There is a parallel between the hair, true. This is your stronger case for Seamus. However, we haven't been given enough evidence that the man in the clue is the HBP to assume that it is so. He could also be the next DaDa teacher, or a newly introduced member of the Order. We also can not just assume that the information that we have been given was in description of a current character. As I have mentioned earlier, there is the possibility of a newly introduced character that we will meet through a pensieve, or a mirror, or even a portrait. There are many different methods of seeing new characters. We can not assume that this person is someone that Harry will meet in the present tense. (With Jo's imagination, we can not assume anything.)
"PS:I was that idiot lord voldithingy". I won't hold it against you. I am always up for debating anything, discussing anything, or being corrected or disagreed with. I would, however, like for a person to tell me what they are disagreeing with me about! I also think that it is more interesting when a person chooses to disagree but will stick their own neck out with their opinion. This is a great forum for maturely discussing different opinions and thoughts about the Potter series. There have been numerous occassions when I have seen different options or even changed my mind because other members have clearly spelled out their takes on different issues. I challenge you to try to change other's opinions with your own well-thought out takes on the different subjects at hand.
Enjoy!
Barbie
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El Cronista de Salem - Oct 2, 2004 3:38 am (#1794 of 2923)
About Seamus as HBP:
Oh, MY GOD! I hope that it won't be TRUE! I dont like nothing Seamus. Unfortunately, you use right points (unfortunately because I don't like him, but congratulations for your post).
In all the cases, I insist: ¡Godric Gryffindor is the HALF- BLOOD PRINCE!
:-D
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 2, 2004 5:11 am (#1795 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Hi again Phoenix Song. Well please do answer this: 1)Your suggestion:I feel that GG could still be the HBP and we could be receiving his story through a means such as the pensieve. There are numerous methods of communicating in the wizarding world that are not available to muggles, so I would not presume to cut off that avenue of thought just because someone may have "passed on". My answer:Well, hasn't JKR said that HBP has got powers that rival both of You-know-who and Harry. Concentrate here:" HBP has got power....."Well she hadn't say that HBP "had"(past);she said HBP "has".So alas! Godric Griffindor doesn't fulfills that very requirement Remeber that not a single time have I said that Seamus is the HBP.I am only making an assumption. Also we do know the reasons for shorting hat taking so long with both Harry and Neville. For Harry it couldnot decide whether to keep him in Slytherin or Griffindor; while for Neville it was confused to short him because of his poor talent in magic. But for Seamus none of these conditions are mentioned. I often find that things that often go unnoticed at first have a big role to play in the future(remember Dumbledore mentioning Trelawny's first prediction in PoA).
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 2, 2004 5:30 am (#1796 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Here friends is a list of half blood wizards mentioned in this book. You can debate whether one of them is HBP or not. The List: 1)Voldemort 2)Harry potter(only if you consider Lily not a proper wizard) 3)Seamus Finnigan 4)Dean Thomas(Stop bickering me.If you have doubt,go and see his parentage on hp-lexicon's website)
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Madame Librarian - Oct 2, 2004 5:48 am (#1797 of 2923)
Harry is and will always be called a half-blood because his mum, Lily, though a proper witch, is muggle-born. In JKR's Potterverse, the Wizarding world uses the term "half-blood" to identify any witch or wizard who has a parent, grandparent, great grandparent, and on and on (maybe as far back as nine generations, we've never seen canon text to nail this down) who were muggle-born. Lily was muggle-born; Harry is half-blood. Should Harry have kids in future, they'd all be half-blood. Grandkids, too...and on and on. In other words "half-blood" is a general term just as "mixed blood" is. Icckkk, both are odious.
Ciao. Barb
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Gerald Costales - Oct 2, 2004 6:03 am (#1798 of 2923)
headwig (re: The List)
. . . . . 1. Voldermort - JKR has said it's not him.
. . . . . 2. Harry - ditto
. . . . . 3. Seamus Finnigan - a new choice to me but a possibility.
. . . . . 4. Dean Thomas - no info on father but a possibility.
but I think you left these two people off -
. . . . . 5. Hagrid - was the rurmor confirmed.
. . . . . 6. Remus Lupin - Yes, he is a Half-Blood, mentioned in a JKR chat.
Given this list, I'd vote Dean Thomas with Remus Lupin being my second choice. ;-) GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 2, 2004 7:06 am (#1799 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
LOL GC, you left off one. None of the above.
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hellocello3200 - Oct 2, 2004 7:48 am (#1800 of 2923)
Headwig, Where did you find the quote about the HBP having powers that rival Harry's and LV? If it is true that the HBP is alive, then that does make it more likely that it will be a character we already know, but I still think that it will be a new, or previous;y minor character.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Re: post 1750. Thanks Gerald, I'm on my way there.
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Ann - Sep 21, 2004 3:57 pm (#1752 of 2923)
Kevin, I really like your 3, 6, and 7: the title thing/person is revived from an earlier important appearance; its earlier importance is well known by many in the wizarding world (and, usually, Hermione!); and Harry begins knowing less about it than anyone but ends up knowing more (although that is a bit of a stretch in the case of OotP).
I'm less convinced by the idea that the title thing always turns to evil. I don't think the Order does at all; and the Stone and the Chamber don't in themselves lead to evil, though they might be put to evil uses. And I don't understand 1 at all, since we know the HBP is a person.
But I think your idea about early importance revived sounds very likely indeed for a half-blood prince.
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Kevin Lane - Sep 21, 2004 4:42 pm (#1753 of 2923)
Well I mean I didn't mean that the Title whatever BECOMES evil, but something bad or evil usually comes becuase of it, in this case, Kreacher using the order's hq to trick Harry into going to the MOM. And don't forget, the only way Harry knew about 'the weapon' was becuase of the Order.
And I wouldn't be too sure the The Halfblood prince is a person, could it be an insult, and idea, heck it could be an animal.
I mean when we heard the name Order of the Phoenix, some people thought it would be an award.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 21, 2004 7:45 pm (#1754 of 2923)
Kevin Lane (re: post #1755)
"And I wouldn't be too sure the The Halfblood prince is a person, could it be an insult, . . ."
I've actually proposed that it was the "Mudblood Prince" and that over the years its been changed to a more acceptable "Half-Blood Prince".
Someone has agrued that James "the Prince of Half-Blood" Potter is the "Half-Blood Prince" because of his support for Half-Bloods and Muggle Borns.
Welcome the the Forum Kevin. ;-) GC
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Kevin Lane - Sep 21, 2004 8:03 pm (#1755 of 2923)
Yeah I could see that.
King Weasly and Prince Potter.
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Classicsquid592 - Sep 22, 2004 5:33 pm (#1756 of 2923)
Yay for James Potter, the potential HBP!
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Murphy - Sep 22, 2004 5:40 pm (#1757 of 2923)
I believe Harry's the Half Blood Prince...To me, it really can't be any other way...whether or not he has ties to actual royalty--either in the muggle word thru his mom or the wizarding world thru dad--I think he's the prince. Also, for those who think it's Voldemort, the word prince refers to a child--someone not yet of age--so unless the title is used in the past sense, while describing LV's childhood, it doesn't fit for him.
Anyway, here's a few reasons I think the HBP is Harry:
1. He has tons of gold in his vault that his parents left him, but jkr never explained how james and lily accumulated such wealth--weren't they both fairly young when they died? It doesn't seem like they could have saved up that much...perhaps one of them inherited money from wealthy parents...
2. the Lord voldemeort / harry contrast. I think we will learn more about both of them in HBP...both are half bloods, but harry's the only one who currently fits the "prince" description.
well i don't have great reasons, but i do think hp is the hbp...
by the way, does anyone know about voldemort and harry's lineage?
were james potter and voldemort's dad on sirius's family tree? seems like they'd have to be, as all purebloods are related...assuming their purebloods, of course.
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Madame Librarian - Sep 22, 2004 6:16 pm (#1758 of 2923)
Murphy, JKR herself has said that neither Harry nor Voldemort are the Half-Blood Prince. Now, there is a possibility that she is pulling our leg, but probably 110% of her fans think not. It's not her style to mislead. Confuse, yes; stump, yes, but nothing more.
Regarding the word "prince," without even looking up the definition I would venture that there are multiple meanings. One of them is surely, as you say, the son of a ruling king or queen. But the word is also a general term for ruler of a country or principality. And, as far as being of age, think Prince Charles. He's a prince, but, my goodness, he's older than I am! And, there' Machiavelli's little treatise on leadership, political power and general savvy about getting people to do what you want called The Prince wherein he is using the term in its generic sense of leader or ruler.
Ciao. Barb
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Murphy - Sep 22, 2004 6:42 pm (#1759 of 2923)
Thanks, I wasn't aware JKR had excluded HP and LV from being the HBP.
I can't wait for the book to come out!!
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Star Crossed - Sep 22, 2004 7:25 pm (#1760 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Sep 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Murphy (Ha ha, nice name.
), Voldemort's dad was a muggleborn. Voldemort's mother was the pureblood.
EDIT: Though if she ever was on the tree, she would probably be burnt off after marrying Tom Riddle.
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Phoenix song - Sep 22, 2004 7:25 pm (#1761 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Murphy: Although Harry has been ruled out as the HBP, I still think that he's the Heir of Gryffindor. If you haven't yet read up on these theories, please do a "search" and tell us what you think.
I personally believe that the HBP is a historical figure, like Godric Gryffindor. There have been suggestions that the HBP does not have to be a literal title so much as it can be a title like "champion of mudbloods and muggles" or "Weasley is our King." It could possibly be a nickname, an insult, or an honorary title.
There are lots of great ideas on this forum, but they'll remain ideas until we get book 6. We're all anxious as well!
Barbie
EDIT: JKR has said that James Potter inherited his money, and didn't need to work. This would be the reason that Harry inherited so much money despite his parents dying so young.
There are a lot of theories on how James and Voldemort wouldn't have been directly on Sirius' family tree despite being related to them. I'm not "into" ancestry, but if you're not a "direct" descendent with a "Black" family name you're not likely to be on the tapestry. They could still be related, however.
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Murphy - Sep 23, 2004 1:19 am (#1762 of 2923)
But wasn't Mrs. Weasley on the tapestry, burned out? I don't have the book handy but I seem to remember both Weasley's playing into Sirius's lineage. Though now that I think about it, I am not sure whether they were included in the tapestry, or just mentioned by Sirius as related to him...
Two off-subject notes:
1. Sorry I wrote in net speak in my first few posts. I am just so used to doing so, and so excited about finally getting to chat with others about HP theories--I've looked around for good forums for some time, these are by far the best I've found--that I forgot about your policy. I tried to edit my posts when I read another post reminding someone to not use net speak, but I guess too much time had passed. Anyway.
2. Should I have a HP-inspired name? I didn't realize HP-names were kind of the norm until Star Crossed commmented on my name. lol at me.
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Murphy - Sep 23, 2004 1:21 am (#1763 of 2923)
Oh, and I also think Harry's the heir of Gryffindor, as I have since I read CoS. I just can't see it being any other way. ( =
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Steve Newton - Sep 23, 2004 6:45 am (#1764 of 2923)
Librarian
Since the news is that the title of the book will be HP and the Half-Blood Prince, should this forums title be changed? (Add the hyphen?)
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remiden - Sep 23, 2004 7:13 am (#1765 of 2923)
To Murphy and Steve Newton's questions: No, it does not matter.
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Steve Newton - Sep 23, 2004 8:01 am (#1766 of 2923)
Librarian
Actually, I was mostly joking.
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Phoenix song - Sep 23, 2004 8:41 am (#1767 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Murphy: "But wasn't Mrs. Weasley on the tapestry, burned out?"
"Molly and I are cousins by marriage and Arthur's something like my second cousin once removed. But there's no point in looking for them on here--if ever a family was a bunch of blood traitors it's the Weasleys." (OoP, Ch 6, pg. 113, U.S. ed.)
I take this to mean that the Weasley family would never have been included on the tapestry in the first place. Their "fondness" for muggles would have been well known and they were probably ostracized by the "pure-blood" fanatics in their family.
I don't think that the thread needs to be edited to include the hyphen in the Half Blood Prince title. I think that most of us know that it had been changed by JKR for clarification purposes. (What was the theory? Harry Potter and the Horribly Splinched Vampire?)
Murphy: I couldn't speak for Star Crossed, but I'm sure that she wasn't being sarcastic about your name not being "Potter inspired". When I see the name "Murphy" it always reminds me of Murphy's law. Perhaps this was her intention. You don't need to change your name unless you'd like to do so. Many members go by their proper names, their first names, their nicknames, made up names or whatever happens to suit them personally. Choose one that you are comfortable with.
If you do want to change your name, you can do so by going to the "change password or preferences" link in the teal tool bar. Please be sure to add an additional line that will let us know that you were "formerly known as Murphy" so that we can make the mental shift. Again, though, you do not need to do this unless you would like to do so, as you're name is perfectly fine.
I can fully understand your glee in finding more mature people to discuss Potter with. I had tried looking at other forums before joining this one (which is by far the best!) I couldn't stand to read all of the posts regarding which actor was "hottest" and so on. They would also have literal inches of tag-lines and smilies that would drive me insane, (and more net speak than was acceptable). I felt as if I needed to have a translator nearby, and I speak English as my first-and only-language. I'm glad that you are enjoying your forum experience!
Barbie
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Chemyst - Sep 23, 2004 3:37 pm (#1768 of 2923)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
A full month ago, this thread was buzzing about hyphens. Steve Newton just brought it up again in #1766. Here is today's quote from TLC:
As a followup to our notice that, in contrast to the way the title's been used on JKRowling.com, there will be a hyphen in the American edition of HBP, we've just confirmed it will also be in place in the British edition. The book will be Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince whether you be Yank or Brit. This decision was made to be consistent with the use of the term in rest of the series.
... consistent with use of the term in the rest of the series??? When is the term used in the rest of the series?
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hellocello3200 - Sep 23, 2004 6:35 pm (#1769 of 2923)
I belive the term "half-blood" is what they are refering to, not HBP.
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Star Crossed - Sep 24, 2004 12:13 pm (#1770 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
2. Should I have a HP-inspired name? I didn't realize HP-names were kind of the norm until Star Crossed commmented on my name. lol at me.
I knew I should have said why I said what I said. (Ha ha, try saying that a lot.) The reason I said the name thing is the fact that Murphy is my last name. I just get amused when I see it. I am entirely, entirely sorry.
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Betelgeuse Black - Sep 24, 2004 6:16 pm (#1771 of 2923)
Phoenix song,
Do you recall where JKR said that James Potter inherited his money and didn't need to work? I'd like to investigate this a bit due to the idea that James might be the HBP.
Thanks, Betelgeuse
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remiden - Sep 24, 2004 8:26 pm (#1772 of 2923)
It said that the Potters defied Lord Voldemort three times. Maybe Voldemort is kin to Harry in some way concerning the HBP title, not as in grandfather or uncle, but rather as in second or third cousins. Possibly Voldemort's mother was James's grandmother, possibly having a child before she met Voldemort's father. Here is a scenario. James Potter and Tom Riddle are both in line for the title of prince (of what, who knows), and James beats him out of the title and fortune in some way, defying Voldemort for the first time. Maybe the lord form Voldemort's name actually does have a lord meaning. Considering this scenario, having Harry born would be another obstacle in the way for Voldemort to acquire the prince title he wants, so that was another reason he chose Harry to attack in stead of Neville. I know this is simply reaching, but it would delve further into where Harry's money came from. Surely the reason for JKR's secrecy into that matter will come to light in the next book, so why not tie it into the HBP line.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 25, 2004 5:16 am (#1773 of 2923)
JKR will also be revealing what profession the Potter were in. JKR said if we knew the Potters' profession that it would have given away too much. (It's just like JKR to tease us with hidden details. But, I think it's just good clean fun for some readers to post and to think about those hidden details. Hey, posting keeps me busy at home, while I'm not drinking or smoking.)
Also, I doubt they worked as Aurors, dentists, teachers, or in the Ministry. If I we to guess, I'd choose ALCHEMISTS. Heck, could have been assistants to Flamel. ;-) GC
PS Didn't Flamel own some kinda stone thingy? Geez, I can't remember. Better start rereading Book 1. ;-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 25, 2004 9:51 am (#1774 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Betelgeuse Black: " Do you recall where JKR said that James Potter inherited his money and didn't need to work? I'd like to investigate this a bit due to the idea that James might be the HBP."
Sure, I've finally found the copy of the transcript that I've read it from. I'm terrible at searches, but here goes!
"What did James and Lily Potter do when they were alive? Well, I can't go into too much detail, because you're going to find out in future books. But James inherited plenty of money, so he didn't need a well-paid profession. You'll find out more about both Harry's parents later." AOL Online Chat Transcript, October 19, 2000 found on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Hope that it was helpful!
Barbie
EDIT: "PS Didn't Flamel own some kinda stone thingy? Geez, I can't remember. Better start rereading Book 1. ;-) GC "
Gee, do I detect a "wee" bit of sarcasm?
"If I we to guess, I'd choose ALCHEMISTS." Interesting theory. But what clues have you found to back it up? I don't think that we've seen evidence that either Potter was particularly adept at potions. James was good at transfiguration, and Lily was good at charms. I would think that being an excellent potion maker would be important to being an alchemist. Just my thoughts, though.
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Ann - Sep 25, 2004 12:51 pm (#1775 of 2923)
The idea that James and Lily had some sort of connection with alchemy and Flamel is really interesting. I wonder if that's why she gave us that first draft page out of PS/SS in which the stone was in the Potter's vault!
Can't think of any other evidence, though. It's odd, really, that alchemy isn't taught at Hogwarts, when it's apparently so important in the wizarding world. But perhaps that is what advanced potions is! And if James was really, really good at that, perhaps that's why Snape would rather teach something else--he's constantly being reminded of exercises where James did better than he did!
(But this is all getting really speculative.)
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Madame Kulich - Sep 25, 2004 8:22 pm (#1776 of 2923)
Remiden - I thought I read somewhere that Voldemort is in no way related to Harry, uncle, cousin or otherwise. I think it is on jkrowling.com. I will go there and check it out.
I checked on jkrowling.com, and she said that Harry is not a close relative of Voldemort and not a decendent of Salazaar Slytherin. So, I guess with that information, Harry could be a distant relative of Voldemort's on VOldemort's mother's side.
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Gerald Costales - Sep 26, 2004 10:58 am (#1777 of 2923)
Phoenix song (re: post #1776)
The fact that Prongs, etc. were able to self teach themselves to be animagi shows excellent Wizarding abilities. Similar to the Weasley twins in their talents.
You could possibly intern to become an Alchemist or just start doing errands and cleaning up and then move up slowly in responsibilies and duties. I imagine it being a 20 to 25 year process. Alchemy could be a career only an independently wealthy Wizard and his wife could pursue.
Outside of Flamel, there is no mention of any other Alchemists. (I have speculated that Dumbledore could possibly have been an Alchemist before taking up teaching. I doubt Snape started teaching after leaving Hogwarts, either)
If you were independently wealthy and a Wizard, what career would you choose? Auror, too dangerous look what happened to the Longbottoms. Own a business in Hogsmead, too boring plus you're wealthy. Work for the Ministry, you could end of in a small dept. like Arthur or an assistant like Percy.
How about something really challenging like Alchemy. There is that lead to gold thing and possible immortality. ;-) GC (Not really sarcasm just kidding sometimes.)
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Phoenix song - Sep 26, 2004 12:56 pm (#1778 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I'll be honest with you GC, the whole alchemy thing is way over my head. It's not that I don't see that there are obvious references to alchemy in the books, it's just that I don't understand the thread itself so it scares me off altogether. Maybe you guys that are alchemy masters could produce some "remedial" (Snape reference) alchemy basics so that the rest of us that are floundering in it could "catch up" and better understand it. (I hope that I'm not the only one that this is "beyond"!)
I agree that all of your points are valid. If I were a wealthy wizard with a decent amount of talent, skills, and brain I would probably choose to study alchemy as well.
I hope that book 6 is when JKR lets us in on the secrets behind the Potters' professions, their heritage, and their past together. Too many blank spaces in Harry's history makes me uneasy about his future.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Sep 26, 2004 2:54 pm (#1779 of 2923)
Phoenix song - You're right, I started reading the Alchemy thread and it is probably the Rocket science of the Wizarding world.
JKR said that there would be no need for prequels. I'm confident by the end of Book 7 most the our questions will be answered. But, until then let's post.
The Alchemy thing maybe overdone by me, but most of the ideas I go with are those that make sense or are outlandishly fun (you may have read a few of those). Heck, James and Lily could well turn out to be the agents for the Weird Sisters or own a broom repair shop or some other Wizard related job. There's that possibility that James and Lily had jobs in the Muggle world, but what newspaper reporters (to Clark Kent).
If anything is important, it's where James inherited his money. That will be the window to James' past and possibly Harry's future. I hope it's not one of those sins of the father or grandfather haunting the children in the present type of things.
I really don't think there is any direct relationship between the Potters and Voldermort. Just checked to see what thread I was in.
AND GODRIC GRYFFINDOR IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE not James Potter! ;-) GC
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Phoenix song - Sep 26, 2004 3:01 pm (#1780 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
AND GODRIC GRYFFINDOR IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE not James Potter! ;-) GC
I agree totally!
But I feel that I must add that I believe that Harry is the Heir of Gryffindor by choice, (choosing to fight Gryffindor's cause) if not by blood. (I afraid that people may confuse the HBP with the HoG, and just wanted to clarify my stance along with GC.)
Barbie
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Sep 26, 2004 3:49 pm (#1781 of 2923)
I think that the alchemy/Lily and James's professions is on topic. James could be the Half-Blood Prince (though I suspect it is Gryffindor). I think it is very possible they were alchemists because of the page Jo gave us on her site. The stone was found in Harry's vault because his parents got it somehow (I couldn't really make most of it out). If they were Flamel's assistants, they could have easily found it or taken it or whatever.
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Saud - Sep 26, 2004 5:08 pm (#1782 of 2923)
Edited by Sep 26, 2004 5:08 pm
If you have alot of money, why work? And if you are good at heart and there are DE's and LV lurking around in the streets, then the only thing a good wealthy man might do is to help in the cause of the good by participating in stopping evil. Hence, being a member of the OotP.
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Saud - Sep 26, 2004 5:21 pm (#1783 of 2923)
I dont know exactly where to post this question. But I am placing it here.
How long had the war between the old OotP and the DE's lasted? And what was the way in which the war was fought?
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Phoenix song - Sep 26, 2004 7:17 pm (#1784 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
I'm not positive, but I believe that the war was on for 11 years before Harry was "marked" as Voldemort's equal. I think that it was 11 years of Voldemort's rise, and 11 years before the attempt to steal the stone. Harry was 1 at the murder of his parents, he was 11 when he went to Hogwarts, at the end of his 11th year he faced Voldemort and Quirrell with the stone.
Does anybody know for certain? I'm not finding anything definite on my search.
Barbie
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vball man - Sep 26, 2004 9:03 pm (#1785 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
What if James was Flamel's grandson? That would explain why they have so much money - they've been making gold. It would also explain why Harry's vault [almost] had the PS.
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lobelia - Sep 27, 2004 9:46 am (#1786 of 2923)
James inherited money from his ancestor that invented the snitch. Someone from Godric's Hollow invented the golden snitch. I agree with the post from Accio book Six in the Youngest Seeker in a Century, that Harry's family is from Godric's Hollow and that he inherited his talent from James' side and also the original plans in someone's private collection as alluded to in JKR's Quidditch Through The Ages.
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lobelia - Sep 27, 2004 10:19 am (#1787 of 2923)
I edited to late. I looked for the post from Accio Book Six who posted in the Youngest Seeker in a Century thread. It is now gone and must of been munched. The above post was only guesses except for the information from the Quidditch book.
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Madame Librarian - Sep 27, 2004 3:03 pm (#1788 of 2923)
From the Lexicon section on Quidditch:
...The third and most important ball is the Golden Snitch. The Golden Snitch is a tiny ball that has wings and is enchanted. The first Snitch was a tiny bird that was very small and very tiny, but changes to the rules made it illegal to use the actual bird. The current enchanted, winged ball version of the Snitch was invented by Bowman Wright of Godric's Hollow.
Hope this clears something up.
Ciao. Barb
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 1, 2004 6:03 am (#1789 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Edited by Kip Carter Oct 1, 2004 6:25 pm
I think you are quite wrong there, Phoenix Song.
I edited the following all capital letter post to normal capitalizations. This is the second post that I have had to edit and I have sent the poster an email. If I have to edit another post with all capital letters by lord voldythingy, I will place him on Moderated status. - Kip I THINK YOU ARE QUITE WRONG THERE PHOENIX SONG .
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Phoenix song - Oct 1, 2004 7:44 am (#1790 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
lord voldythingy: Can you be more specific as to where you think that I am wrong? In my last post I was attempting to answer a question regarding the time line of the rise of Voldemort. I quite specifically asked for information if anyone believed that I was mistaken.
"I'm not positive, but I believe that the war was on for 11 years before Harry was 'marked' as Voldemort's equal. I think that it was 11 years of Voldemort's rise, and 11 years before the attempt to steal the stone. Harry was 1 at the murder of his parents, he was 11 when he went to Hogwarts, at the end of his 11th year he faced Voldemort and Quirrell with the stone.
Does anybody know for certain? I'm not finding anything definite on my search."
A previous post of mine stated that I believed that Godric Gryffindor was the HBP. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. Why not venture an opinion as to who you think the HBP is, then?
I'm not adverse to being corrected, or being disagreed with, however it would seem as if you could be a little bit more specific as to your disagreement.
Barbie
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Prefect Marcus - Oct 1, 2004 3:13 pm (#1791 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Lord VT,
Perhaps you were not aware of the fact that on the Internet, all capitals means you are shouting. It is usually considered rude.
All lower-case lettering is also severely frowned upon, with the sole exception being in chat. So it is usually safest to follow established capitalization rules.
Marcus
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 2, 2004 12:18 am (#1792 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Sorry I was a little rude there, but i think that Godric Griffindor can't be HBP as: 1)He has probably died (one cannot live a thousand years) 2)He wasnot probably a half blood otherwise he couldn't have been a friend of "pure blood" Salzar Slytherin.(we know that he was his friend as told by sorting hat in OoTP) 3)on the other hand i think that Seamus Finnigan is either the HBP or related to it because of : 1)He is a half blood 2)Why shorting hat took a long time to decide where to short him(It's probably because he was HBP or the heir to Godric Griffindor and the hat was confused and startled to find the true heir 3)His hair is sandy(like the lion man revealed by JKR who is to appear in the sixth book and is probably
HBP) PS:I was that idiot lord voldithingy
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 3:29 am (#1793 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
headwig: (a.k.a. lord voldithingy) I'm not certain if you have read many of the previous posts, but many of your reasons for GG not being the HBP have already been sorted out.
"1)He has probably died (one cannot live a thousand years)"
I feel that GG could still be the HBP and we could be receiving his story through a means such as the pensieve. There are numerous methods of communicating in the wizarding world that are not available to muggles, so I would not presume to cut off that avenue of thought just because someone may have "passed on".
We have also discussed how the term "half blood prince" could also be ascribed to one who was of pure blood lineage. It could be a term that is given to one who is sympathetic to those who aren't "pure bloods" as Slytherin would have termed them to be. Recall, if you will, that Voldemort refers to Dumbledore as being the champion of commoners, mud bloods and muggles in the graveyard scene in GoF. I believe that this terminology is quite likely similar to the Half-blood Prince. A person would not necessarily have to be a literal half-blooded member of a royal family to be considered the person that is prince of the half-born. Do you catch the distinction? If not, please also consider that Ron Weasley is called a "King" in OoP. He's not actually a King, but has inherited that title. It's a sarcastic title given to him by the Slytherins, that is later embraced with affection by the rest of the school. The same could be true of a hero of the half-bloods. Perhaps a school founder who stood up to his best friend who believed that there were those who were not worthy to study magic at Hogwarts could be called the Half-blood Prince regardless of his bloodline. JKR has allowed us to know that it is our choices that are more important than our bloodlines. Godric Gryffindor chose to disagree with his best friend because he felt that he was right in allowing talent to be the deciding factor over blood.
"2)He was not probably a half blood otherwise he couldn't have been a friend of 'pure blood' Salzar Slytherin."
Another possibility could be that Gryffindor may not have been a full blood without the knowledge of Slytherin. It doesn't seem as if the Death Eaters know that Voldemort is half-blood. It may be possible that GG had never told him of his true lineage.
"2)Why sorting hat took a long time to decide where to sort him(It's probably because he was HBP or the heir to Godric Griffindor and the hat was confused and startled to find the true heir"
It's true that the sorting hat took a long time to sort Seamus, but it also took a long time to sort Neville and Harry as well. I'm not denying the possibility that it could be Seamus, but I don't think that this is the strongest argument for your case. Also, I don't believe that the sorting hat is "startled" by much. I think that he has a great access to information in Dumbledore's office.
"3)His hair is sandy(like the lion man revealed by JKR who is to appear in the sixth book and is probably HBP." There is a parallel between the hair, true. This is your stronger case for Seamus. However, we haven't been given enough evidence that the man in the clue is the HBP to assume that it is so. He could also be the next DaDa teacher, or a newly introduced member of the Order. We also can not just assume that the information that we have been given was in description of a current character. As I have mentioned earlier, there is the possibility of a newly introduced character that we will meet through a pensieve, or a mirror, or even a portrait. There are many different methods of seeing new characters. We can not assume that this person is someone that Harry will meet in the present tense. (With Jo's imagination, we can not assume anything.)
"PS:I was that idiot lord voldithingy". I won't hold it against you. I am always up for debating anything, discussing anything, or being corrected or disagreed with. I would, however, like for a person to tell me what they are disagreeing with me about! I also think that it is more interesting when a person chooses to disagree but will stick their own neck out with their opinion. This is a great forum for maturely discussing different opinions and thoughts about the Potter series. There have been numerous occassions when I have seen different options or even changed my mind because other members have clearly spelled out their takes on different issues. I challenge you to try to change other's opinions with your own well-thought out takes on the different subjects at hand.
Enjoy!
Barbie
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El Cronista de Salem - Oct 2, 2004 3:38 am (#1794 of 2923)
About Seamus as HBP:
Oh, MY GOD! I hope that it won't be TRUE! I dont like nothing Seamus. Unfortunately, you use right points (unfortunately because I don't like him, but congratulations for your post).
In all the cases, I insist: ¡Godric Gryffindor is the HALF- BLOOD PRINCE!
:-D
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 2, 2004 5:11 am (#1795 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Hi again Phoenix Song. Well please do answer this: 1)Your suggestion:I feel that GG could still be the HBP and we could be receiving his story through a means such as the pensieve. There are numerous methods of communicating in the wizarding world that are not available to muggles, so I would not presume to cut off that avenue of thought just because someone may have "passed on". My answer:Well, hasn't JKR said that HBP has got powers that rival both of You-know-who and Harry. Concentrate here:" HBP has got power....."Well she hadn't say that HBP "had"(past);she said HBP "has".So alas! Godric Griffindor doesn't fulfills that very requirement Remeber that not a single time have I said that Seamus is the HBP.I am only making an assumption. Also we do know the reasons for shorting hat taking so long with both Harry and Neville. For Harry it couldnot decide whether to keep him in Slytherin or Griffindor; while for Neville it was confused to short him because of his poor talent in magic. But for Seamus none of these conditions are mentioned. I often find that things that often go unnoticed at first have a big role to play in the future(remember Dumbledore mentioning Trelawny's first prediction in PoA).
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 2, 2004 5:30 am (#1796 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Here friends is a list of half blood wizards mentioned in this book. You can debate whether one of them is HBP or not. The List: 1)Voldemort 2)Harry potter(only if you consider Lily not a proper wizard) 3)Seamus Finnigan 4)Dean Thomas(Stop bickering me.If you have doubt,go and see his parentage on hp-lexicon's website)
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Madame Librarian - Oct 2, 2004 5:48 am (#1797 of 2923)
Harry is and will always be called a half-blood because his mum, Lily, though a proper witch, is muggle-born. In JKR's Potterverse, the Wizarding world uses the term "half-blood" to identify any witch or wizard who has a parent, grandparent, great grandparent, and on and on (maybe as far back as nine generations, we've never seen canon text to nail this down) who were muggle-born. Lily was muggle-born; Harry is half-blood. Should Harry have kids in future, they'd all be half-blood. Grandkids, too...and on and on. In other words "half-blood" is a general term just as "mixed blood" is. Icckkk, both are odious.
Ciao. Barb
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Gerald Costales - Oct 2, 2004 6:03 am (#1798 of 2923)
headwig (re: The List)
. . . . . 1. Voldermort - JKR has said it's not him.
. . . . . 2. Harry - ditto
. . . . . 3. Seamus Finnigan - a new choice to me but a possibility.
. . . . . 4. Dean Thomas - no info on father but a possibility.
but I think you left these two people off -
. . . . . 5. Hagrid - was the rurmor confirmed.
. . . . . 6. Remus Lupin - Yes, he is a Half-Blood, mentioned in a JKR chat.
Given this list, I'd vote Dean Thomas with Remus Lupin being my second choice. ;-) GC
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 2, 2004 7:06 am (#1799 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
LOL GC, you left off one. None of the above.
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hellocello3200 - Oct 2, 2004 7:48 am (#1800 of 2923)
Headwig, Where did you find the quote about the HBP having powers that rival Harry's and LV? If it is true that the HBP is alive, then that does make it more likely that it will be a character we already know, but I still think that it will be a new, or previous;y minor character.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1801 to 1850)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:32 am
Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 9:32 am (#1801 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
headwig: I ditto hellocello600's question. I am not aware of JKR saying at any time that the HBP has powers that rival Voldemort or Harry's powers. If she had made that statement, then I can see your point. As far as I know, JKR hasn't made any statements regarding the HBP with the exception that this was a thread of the plot that she originally thought to include in CoS but decided that it would fit better in book 6.
If you have information that we do not possess, please copy it and paste it over for all of us HP sleuths! We would be most interested and grateful.
Also, I do not call myself "bickering" with you. I consider myself to be calmly and rationally discussing items of interest with you. I don't believe that I have resorted to such lowly methods as bickering, sarcasm or YELLING. I apologize, however, if I have offended you in any manner. It has never been my intention to offend, upset, or disgruntle any of my fellow forum members. Please accept my sincerest apologies if you feel that you have been "bickered" upon.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Oct 2, 2004 9:51 am (#1802 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes - "None of the above" is an option but since the next book is the "Half-Blood Prince" we need to post about someone.
If the HBP is alive than my current choice Godric Gryffindor is invalid. The list would really ballon if we added any minor or some new characters.
The only features we have is that the HBP is male, Prince not Princess. And that he's a "Half-Blood". ;-) GC
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 11:26 am (#1803 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GC: He may be a prince, or he may be someone called a prince. He may be half blood, or he may be one who is the prince of the half bloods. I think that it is more likely that he is a half-blood of royal lines, but we can't rule out any variations of the wording. With JKR we have to be careful to assume anything about the clues that she provides. We can think that certain scenarios are more likely than others, but all we truly know for certain is that he will be introduced in book 6 and that he is a male.
I wish that she would give us additional information so that we would have more to go by. Then again, I wish that she would announce that the book is complete and ready for publication. "You can't always get what you want" comes forcibly to mind.
Barbie
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 2, 2004 11:45 am (#1804 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"TwinklingBlueEyes - "None of the above" is an option but since the next book is the "Half-Blood Prince" we need to post about someone."
Actually, some of us have posted, about 1800 posts worth... ;-)
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remiden - Oct 2, 2004 2:12 pm (#1805 of 2923)
This is to Kip. Just out of curiosity, why did you edit Lord Voldie thing's post, since it was in reply to post 1781, where GC used all caps to and to post 1782 where PS used all caps, and not edit thiers? Not trying tostart anything or something like that, but following along the conversation it was not out of place.
And to GC, Why do we have to post about someone? None of the above is a perfect choice if you do not think that those you listed are the HBP.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 2, 2004 2:58 pm (#1806 of 2923)
Remiden just made a reference to some earlier posts and I was wondering ... G.C. and P.S.- Am I in the dark about something. I do not quite see how you came to your capitalized conclusions. Can you either explain them or give me a link to the place where they are explained? I still think that James Potter as the significant figure in HP6 would fit mainly because it makes more sense in terms of Harry's own history being a key to the end of the series. There are a few good points about GG being the HPB namely the fact that in the CoS we find out that he was a champion of Half-bloods and Muggle-borns which makes him a "half-blood prince" and someone who comes into play in the second book. But for me, James Potter simply fits into the story line better. Can either of you fit Godric Gryffindor securely into the plot of the story for me? I just don't see how he could be significant enough to the specific time line of the books to be the title character. I am completely open minded but I would like to see a convincing and complete explanation of why Gryffindor is the HBP. Right now I remain firmly in place as I have managed to successfully work James into the plot of a Harry Potter book.
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 5:00 pm (#1807 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
To remiden and Classicsquid592: I would like to point out that my post was not in capitals. I quoted a single line by GC by copying and posting and his post was in capitals. One of the reasons that I did so was because I was trying to bring to GC's attention that there was no argument involved and no need to capitalize. I further stated that I agreed with his statement, and went on to explain...in an appropriate ratio of capitals... why I agreed and who I believed the half-blood prince to be. I didn't feel that I had done anything inappropriate and apologize if you feel that I have. It is not my intention to engage in yelling matches of any sort. I think that if you each would review my posting habits that you would find that I am not in the habit of yelling out my posts.
The post made by LVT was just a blanket "I think that you're quite wrong" statement, made much later in the posting thread, and left me without any clue as to why I was being disagreed with. I don't mind being corrected, disagreed with, or any of the sort, but I would like to know what I've said that a member disagrees with and why they have disagreed with me. Quite frankly, his post felt to me like a slap in the face. Imagine going about your business and having somebody approach you and yell out "I think that you're quite wrong" and then leave without further explanation.
I would also like to state for GC's benefit that the post made in question about him was made after he had made a thoughtful post. I took it to mean that he was using his capitals as an emotional statement and not a "throw down the gauntlet" sentence.
Classicsquid: I understand and appreciate your stance regarding James Potter as the Half-blood Prince. I agree that James as the HBP would make a wonderful addition to the story line. I will tell you the reasons that I hope that the HBP will be Godric Gryffindor:
We know that this storyline was suppose to originally appear in CoS. We know that in the CoS the Heir of Slytherin was originally introduced. We know that Harry discovering that he was a true Gryffindor was also a main discovery in the book. I feel that the history of Godric Gryffindor will come into play in a major way in the future. I also feel as if JKR will try to balance things by having some of Slytherin's story and some of Gryffindor's story.
We know that the uniting of the houses is becoming an important theme in winning the War. I think that in order to unite the houses, we will need to know more specifics about what came about the divide the houses. I think that GG can supply that information.
There has been much speculation as to the importance of GG. The sorting hat was originally his, his sword killed the basilisk, and there is speculation that Fawkes and the Mirror of Erised may have been his as well. There is also many items in Dumbledore's office that seem to be Gryffindor related. (The knocker comes to mind.)
In conclusion, I just feel as if the information that Godric Gryffindor has to offer will be important in the unification of the houses and winning the war. I feel that it will be important for him to make a greater appearance in order to do this. Slytherin has already been represented, so I think that Gryffindor must be as well. And we already know that Gryffindor fought with his friend to teach the half-bloods and muggle-borns. It would seem to me as if he were compassionate to them and their needs.
I have always posted that "I believed" or "I thought" such and so. I do not claim to have all of the answers, especially when it comes to speculating as to what will occur in the next two books. I don't feel that I am wrong in stating my opinions, even though I do not currently have "canon" evidence to support that they are accurate. How could I have proof to back up what I feel will occur in the future? However, I hope that I have not posted with the attitude of knowing the future of the books. Only JKR herself knows that outcome. And I will gladly, graciously, humbly, respectfully admit that I'm wrong on that happy, happy day when I hold book 6 in my hands.
I again apologize if anybody has become upset with me when I have voiced my opinions. I have not meant to upset or offend anyone. In the future, I think that I will avoid this thread since it seems to evoke such strong emotions. I would like to remind the members that since HP6 has not yet been released, that this is meant to be a thread for the things that we believe will occur. Unfortunately, beliefs are often strongly tied to emotion.
Barbie
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 2, 2004 5:10 pm (#1808 of 2923)
I apologize if I appeared to have any emotion tied into my post, I was simply wondering exactly what the Godric Gryffindor argument was as I had not heard it in full. You have many good points. However I constantly get this mental image of JKR sitting there reading this argument, rolling on the floor laughing about how completely wrong we all are. I think that the Half-blood prince is James, you think it is Godric, but it is probably actually Sir Nicholas, a dancing skeleton, one of the Valentine's Day dwarfs, or Salazar Slytherin, the Half-blood hypocrite.
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 8:54 pm (#1809 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Classicsquid: You know, you're right. I'm sorry that I've had too much emotion tied into my post as well. Things haven't being going well for me, and this weekend is horrid. I logged on for a few moments of reprieve to find that it appears that I was unknowingly in the middle of some sort of controversy. I am by no means even a nearly perfect person. But I do strive to be a peaceful one. I truly dislike being involved in anything that offends anyone. I have found this forum to be a saving grace in my life lately. There are many warm, wonderful, brilliant people here and I do not wish to upset any one of them. I am constantly trying to not offend or upset anybody, and being that we are all people that's an impossible task to successfully undertake. Please forgive me for being so wounded and raw.
I can truly see Jo laughing at us all. Thinking, "Clever, but not clever enough!", and also, "Where do they dream these things up?" And I'm also certain that there is some minuscule clue that even the super sleuths haven't picked up on that will solve the entire mystery of not only the identity of the HBP but also the ending of the series. We'll just have to keep plugging on though until we have the next installment. (It's a tough wait, though!)
I think that the discussion of who's the HBP is actually more intense because she's ruled out Harry and Voldemort. If she hadn't, most of us would be torn between the two characters. Knocking them out of the running has actually broadened the field instead of narrowing it.
Barbie
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Sherbie Lemon - Oct 2, 2004 9:03 pm (#1810 of 2923)
Barbie, (nice avatar by the way ) you forgot to add something to your list of reasons that name GG as the half-blood prince, "He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen, yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp." Now, I know the inspiration behind this description has been argued many times on many threads; still yet, I feel that the above quote is describing the HBP and I feel (today, at least ) that the HBP is Godric Gryffindor.
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 9:14 pm (#1811 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
You're absolutely right, Sherbie. That description screams out GG to me, for sure. And how could two people with such good tastes in men (Mr. Big), books (HP, of course), TV (obvious!) and music (The Beatles) be wrong?
Barbie
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Sherbie Lemon - Oct 2, 2004 9:30 pm (#1812 of 2923)
Going by our incredible taste and impecable judgement, I can safely say that we could not be wrong. Of course, there was a time when I was certain Hagrid was a gonner and Riddle was the HBP.
It was actually that passage that convinced me. Before that appeared on JKR's site, I did not put much stock into the GG as the HBP theory. Now however, I strongly feel that the lion man described is Godric and that he is the Half-Blood Prince, or rather, the Prince of Half-Bloods.
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gypsy68 - Oct 3, 2004 1:22 am (#1813 of 2923)
I reckon that this is gonna be the title. i have read the interview she did in scotland and it sounds pretty authentic to me!
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 3, 2004 5:18 am (#1814 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Hi. I saw that piece of information on "THE TELEGRAPH" website probably 2 or 3 days after the title of the book was released.
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Gerald Costales - Oct 3, 2004 6:19 am (#1815 of 2923)
Another two knuts abouts Godric Gryffindor as the HBP. If the Lion-like person is Godric, then it could the reason that the mascot for Gryffindor House is also a Lion. Remember, Slytherin House's mascot is a serpent since Salazar Slytherin spoke to serpents.
Both Dumbledore and McGonagall are Transfiguration teachers. We know that McGonagall is an animagus. And there has been speculation that possibly Dumbledore is also an animagus.
If Parseltongue is a feature of a Slytherin, then couldn't being a Animagus be a possible feature of a Gryffindor?
Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs were all animagi and all Gryffindors. I know Rita Skeeter doesn't seem to be a Gryffindor, but Wormtail a Gryffindor is currently with Voldermort.
Sometihings are not set in stone, "There isn't a Dark Wizard that has been in Slytherin." (Hope I got that quote right.) I would think Wormtail is a Dark Wizard by serving Voldermort. And Harry is a Parseltongue without being a Slytherin.
There is some confusion if the HBP is alive in the present time. That the HBP has powers that rival Harry and Voldermort. The word "has" is in the present tense it's not "had" past tense. If that's true then Godric can't be the HBP, unless JKR has something up her sleeve.
I always saw the HBP being revealed in a flashback similar to the scenes describing the killings of Tom Riddle's father and grandparents.
I will also be more careful with my use of CAPS *wink*. ;-) GC
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 3, 2004 10:14 am (#1816 of 2923)
I think in a chat JKR said that Hagrid was exagerating when he said that so the line you refer to ("There isn't a dark wizard that hasn't been in Slytherin") doesn't mean exactly what it said. The line refers to the fact that as a whole Slytherin represents evil.
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Saud - Oct 3, 2004 4:17 pm (#1817 of 2923)
How exactly did they fight the last war between DE's and OotP? I just want to know what we are expecting for the future. So far all we have seen is stealth attacks and guarding weapons. Will it ever become an all-out war of some sort? And are there any places which are worth gaining control over which would enable a party to gain more control over another? 'The Weapon' that the OotP were guarding was the prophecy right? What was there so important in it that made them risk the members lives??
I'll go with none of the above as the HBP.
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Phoenix song - Oct 4, 2004 3:41 am (#1818 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Saud: " 'The Weapon' that the OotP were guarding was the prophecy right? What was there so important in it that made them risk the members lives??"
It was knowledge that they were really guarding from the DEs. The full knowledge of the prophesy would give Voldemort a clearer understanding of the link between Harry and himself. The Order's greatest advantage, really, is in the knowledge that they hold of how to vanquish Voldemort that Voldemort does not possess. If Voldemort knew fully the prophesy, then he would bend his will to trying to circumvent the prophesy. (Which may not even be possible, as Greek tragedies have shown us. Those who often seek to avoid fulfilling their prophesies often succeed in unwittingly bringing about their completion. See Oedipus Rex.)
All that I can remember about the original war is that the Order members were outnumbered greatly. I seem to remember that Lupin said that they were outnumbered 20 to 1. They probably spent a great deal of time trying to decipher who they could trust, who was being controlled under the Imperious curse, and the like. I may be wrong, though, but I don't remember much more. We do know, though, that the Potters and the Longbottoms successfully defied Voldemort three times each. That sounds to me as if there were some battles like the MoM confrontation.
I'm certain that we will see many more battles and confrontations in book 6, the HBP. I am looking forward to having some of these questions answered. She said that now was the time for questions and not more clues. I for one am ready!
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Oct 4, 2004 6:22 am (#1819 of 2923)
Saud (re: post #1819)
"How exactly did they fight the last war between DE's and OotP?"
I envision small skimishes not pitch battles. If the clashes were too big Muggles would notice. But, if giants were involved, that could be another matter.
We know Muggles were killed and how the MoM handled that I don't know.
The Death Eaters will be using hit and run tactics, ambushes, etc. just keeping one step ahead of the Aurors and MoM. ;-) GC
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 6, 2004 7:28 pm (#1820 of 2923)
Well, I do like the idea of the HBP having something to do with GG, because this rift in the WW seems to have started 1000 years ago with the founders and I want details on that.
Still, there is a long list of half-blood and possibly half-blood wizards in the books, but I can only think of one reference to a prince. Quirrell said he got his turban from an African prince as a reward for getting rid of a zombie. Of course, we know he was wearing it to cover up the unsightly blemish of Voldemort growing out the back of his head, but I still wonder if there is something in that reference to a prince.
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Phoenix song - Oct 6, 2004 7:43 pm (#1821 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Mrs. Brisbee: I agree with you whole heartedly. Since the rift between GG and SS that began 1000 years ago has culminated in the approaching war, I feel that it is appropriate to have more details on that. I don't think that we can truly win the war until we know all that is involved in its original conception.
There is one other mention of royalty in the books. There is mention of a King...King Weasley.
Barbie
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vball man - Oct 6, 2004 8:44 pm (#1822 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
There is one other mention of royalty in the books. There is mention of a King...King Weasley. - Phoenix Song
There are two others that I can think of.
In PS Quirrell is rumored to have gotten his turban from an African prince.
In OoP DD tells Harry that Harry was raised as a normal boy, not a pampered prince.
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Phoenix song - Oct 6, 2004 9:16 pm (#1823 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
We had already discussed the turban from the African prince. I had overlooked the "pampered prince" comment from Dumbledore, though.
Actually, there are lots of "royal" references in the books. Even Fleur translates to "Flower of the Court" as in a maid of nobility. There are obviously references to the queens in the chess trial. All of the Weasley men seem to have royal names as well: Arthur (as in King!), Charles, William, Percival, Frederick, George, and Ronald. On the top of my head I can't think of any others right now, but that because my brain is so tired! One thing is certain, JKR is an extremely clever woman and I can't wait until we have book 6!
Barbie
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 7, 2004 5:25 am (#1824 of 2923)
True, it might be a metaphorical prince rather than a real one, though the only real one mentioned is the African guy--though actually he might not be real, since Quirrell only brought him up to explain his headgear.
Pheonix Song, I never gave Fleure's last name a moments thought, thanks for the translation.
Wasn't there a Bulgarian prince named Krum whose defeat of his enemies caused a major world political shift many centuries ago? My brain is really fuzzy on this, I'll have to look it up. Doubt it has anything to do with the HBP anyway.
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remiden - Oct 7, 2004 5:59 am (#1825 of 2923)
I am still in the James Potter corner, with the quote Vball man posted anout Harry not being raised as a pampered prince helping to tie me down there. Maybe that was a hint tat DD was comparing James to Harry and could also be another reason why Snape did not like James.
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Yvette Reed - Oct 7, 2004 2:02 pm (#1826 of 2923)
I've seen a few references to the African prince. The African prince may in fact have been Dean Thomas' real father, therefore making Dean Thomas the HBP. Remember, Dean Thomas' story line was cut from CS just as the HBP story line was cut from CS. I don't think that this is a coincidence. Dean Thomas is a half-blood, so it could make sense that the Dean Thomas story line (real father killed by death eaters even though Dean thought his father abandoned him, etc) is in fact the same story line as the HBP.
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Ann - Oct 7, 2004 5:47 pm (#1827 of 2923)
Yvette Reed, that's a great connection! I thought it might be Dean, too, since she says his story was originally part of Chamber of Secrets, but that she cut it--and that book, too, was originally titled the Half-Blood Prince. But I didn't connect it with Quirrell's grateful prince.
But unfortunately, she says on her website that she doesn't think she'll ever use Dean's story now--that it has been sacrificed to emphasize Neville's instead. She doesn't always give us complete information, but I don't think she actually lies, and if she'd said that while writing a book whose title is a reference to Dean's story, that would be a pretty blatant lie.
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vball man - Oct 7, 2004 8:49 pm (#1828 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
...Harry not being raised as a pampered prince helping to tie me down there. Maybe that was a hint tat DD was comparing James to Harry - Remiden
Interesting thought. My prediction, though, is that DD was a "Boy who lived" just as Harry was, and that DD was raised as a "pampered prince." Thus DD would be the HBP. (see RBL theory)
I really like most of the theories on here, though. Wow - you guys have excellent minds!
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VeronikaG - Oct 8, 2004 12:58 pm (#1829 of 2923)
I want to offer my own theory as well. It's been a while since I last cooked up a wild theory. I have two theories about who could be the HBP, one a little bit sicker than the other.
1: The half blood prince is Trevor. No, I'm not completely joking. Frogs and toads is tales are often princes and princesses who have been cast a spell on. Trevor, who is constantly trying to run away from Neville could be the Half Blood Prince permanently transfigured to a toad, trying to get help. I know that would be a bit of a re-run on Scabbers, but HBP (the book) is possibly similar to POA in some ways, if Jo really uses a pattern.
2: The Half-Blood prince is Draco. Yes, yes, I know he's supposed to be a pure-blood. But what if he isn't? What if he suddenly discovers that he's half-blood? How could he be? He looks much like his father, so he is definitely related to him. No cheating Narcissa there. That leaves either the unlikely possibility that Narcissa is not his mother, or the more believable one, that either the Malfoys or the Blacks had an impure relation. This person has been kept secret for ages, and did supposedly not have any significance. But somehow it is discovered now.
How would Draco react to these news? First, he'd be shocked, furious and in denial. Then he could either come to terms with it, and get his priorities straight, or he could go all full of hatred towards everybody, and become a really dangerous person.
Where do the "prince" title come in? Well, Draco is the heir of the Malfoy dynasty. He's also the only remaining male descendants of the Blacks. He really has a prince status in the dark wizard community. He has up until now looked at a bright future where he'll come into a lot of power when he grows up. Now his dad is sitting discredited in jail, and the Malfoys have been outed as dark wizards. Draco is facing a fall from grace for sure. If there is ever a time for him to discover he's half-blood, it's now, with his biggest source of bad influence away. Maybe if Lucius stays away for long enough, Draco may have had time to work through things before daddy returns, and not follow him anymore. Lucius may not know about his sons blood status, and have a shock as well. There is also a chance that Draco wants more than ever to get his father's approval after finding out he's half-blood, and will do lots of evil things to be accepted.
OK, now you can poke lots of holes in my theories.
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Dr Filibuster - Oct 8, 2004 1:53 pm (#1830 of 2923)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Veronika, your 1st theory made me smile. Do you think that Luna will kiss the toad just to check if he's a prince?
Your 2nd theory would be very intriging. It would turn Draco's world completely upside down.
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Merlyn - Oct 8, 2004 2:52 pm (#1831 of 2923)
Re: VeronikaG's idea of Trevor being the HBP..neat idea..maybe he turns into the person that JKR described on the page from the HBP book..
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 8, 2004 3:53 pm (#1832 of 2923)
It was the idea that Draco could be the HBP that made me smile! It would definately be entertaining. Very entertaining. Heck, the thought of it will keep me chuckling diabolically all evening, just picturing Draco's face when he discovers he's not pure-blood.
You know, he is always described as "holding court" at the Slytherin table.
A lot of characters have something that suggests royalty about them. I was sure that there had been a "Prince Krum," but apparently I was thinking of Khan Krum of Bulgaria, who defeated the invading Byzantium Empire back in the 9th century. Still royalty though. I'm sure I read once a book on the Byzantium Empire that called him "Prince Krum," but I couldn't find it so resorted to an encyclopedia.
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Yvette Reed - Oct 8, 2004 5:14 pm (#1833 of 2923)
Kudos to Veronika's Draco theory! That would be irony at it's best. Hermione might glean just the tiniest satisfaction from that.
I also just want to say in reference to Dean, Rowling stated she "didn't think" she would use him, not that she never would. Misleading, devious, but not lying.
I could be wrong, it could be Crookshanks for all I know, as I've seen some suggest, but I think Dean's character means alot to Rowling. He meant enough to her to insist that Chris cast him as a black londoner in the movie, a point that is irrelevant if she never uses his background. So I still have my suspicions. I wish we at least had a release date! Argggh!
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Eliza - Oct 8, 2004 7:06 pm (#1834 of 2923)
I have read alot of theories and I too think the Blacks are involved in the HBP. However, I feel that Sirius had a child with a muggle. I think that he may have ended up in Azkaban before he even found out that she was pregnant. She may not have even been aware that he was a wizard. This would add an interesting aspect as Harry would have to deal with the son of the man he considered to be a father figure and the feelings that this boy inherited everything that was left of the man he loved so dearly. At the same time, he would feel sad that this boy, like himself, would never know his father. It is quite possible that we have already met this character as he would be nearly 2 years younger than Harry. The irony being that he entered Hogwarts the same year that Harry met Sirius. He probably will not know he is Sirius' son until book 6.
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Ann - Oct 9, 2004 7:36 am (#1835 of 2923)
Yvette said, 'I also just want to say in reference to Dean, Rowling stated she "didn't think" she would use him, not that she never would. Misleading, devious, but not lying.'
I don't agree: to say she "didn't think" she was going to use him when she also said she was about halfway through a book where he was the title character is more than misleading or devious. By my standards, it's lying. So I don't think Dean can possibly be the HBP. She could end up using the story in Book 7, or as an incidental story here, even, but not as the main theme of the book. If she were doing that she would have been much less straightforward: "It's such a nice story, I really regretted having to set it aside" or something along those lines. (Remember, this wasn't an interview Q&A, she was writing.)
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Star Crossed - Oct 9, 2004 12:05 pm (#1836 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Someone said they wished for a release date, well, I don't have that, but MSN reported:
The sixth book in the series, "Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince," is due to be published next year.
Looks like it will come out next summer!
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Flutterby - Oct 9, 2004 12:53 pm (#1837 of 2923)
Tom Riddle is way older than James Potter. Tom was at Hogwarts 50 years before harry was there. So Tom would of had to be at Hogwarts at least 30 years before James and Lily, so for James to beat Tom out of the Prince title would be hard.
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Flutterby - Oct 9, 2004 2:25 pm (#1838 of 2923)
Dalus Kulich - Sep 25, 2004 - “I checked on jkrowling.com, and she said that Harry is not a close relative of Voldemort and not a descendent of Salazaar Slytherin. So, I guess with that information, Harry could be a distant relative of Voldemort's on Voldemort's mother's side.”
If Harry's grandparents were muggles couldn't he and Voldemort be related through them?
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haymoni - Oct 9, 2004 4:53 pm (#1839 of 2923)
Can't speak for Jo, but I think Dumbledore's comment that Voldy was the last relative/ancestor (whatever the word was) of Salazar Slytherin was there to tell Harry that he is NOT related to Voldy.
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Ann - Oct 10, 2004 11:48 am (#1840 of 2923)
Haymoni, if he's not related to Slytherin, that presumably means he is not related on Riddle's mother's side (and, presumably, on the magical Potter side). But it's possible that he's related on the Riddle/Evans side--although actually I think the Riddles seem to have more in common with Vernon Dursley than the Evans parents who were "proud to have a witch in the family."
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Madame Kulich - Oct 10, 2004 7:36 pm (#1841 of 2923)
Flutterby - it is Lily's parents that are muggles from what I understand, so, that is basically what I meant when I wrote, "So, I guess with that information, Harry could be a distant relative of Voldemort's on Voldemort's mother's side.”
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Bravelionheart07 - Oct 11, 2004 5:12 pm (#1842 of 2923)
Not usre if this has been suggested (I don't have time to read through all 1800-something messages) or not, but someone pointed out Hagrid's possible elligibility. He's probably not, but you never know.
First off, he's half-blood. His father was a wizard, and his mother was a giant. Half-blood.
Second, as someone pointed out, was that his mother is Fridwulfa, and I believe, though not sure, that she was a quenn, which would make Hagrid a prince.
Can anyone tell me if Fridwulfa was a queen? i remember reading that somewhere, but I know that nwo that I've opened my mouth, I'll be wrong. Please correct me if I am.
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Star Crossed - Oct 11, 2004 6:34 pm (#1843 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Personally, I feel Hagrid can never be the HBP, because for one thing, he's referred to half breed, not half blood.
Also, Fridwulfa was never referred to as queen. As far as we know, they don't even have queens. They just have gurgs, who is determined by strength, rather than bloodline.
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haymoni - Oct 12, 2004 7:27 am (#1844 of 2923)
Bravelionheart - I used comments similar to yours to argue that Hagrid was the HBP. Fridwulfa was never called "Queen" but she was mentioned in the article in such a way that it seemed as though everyone should know her. "his mother is none other than the giantess Fridwulfa." He is a half blood, we don't know his full story. I thought for certain it was Hagrid.
However...it has been reported that 2 separate, unrelated individuals asked JKR at her Edinburgh reading if Hagrid was the HBP and she said no. I don't know if we ever received confirmation of this but apparently the sources were reliable and unrelated to one another so they each had their own separate experience with her.
Alas, earwax!
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remiden - Oct 12, 2004 8:57 pm (#1845 of 2923)
(Empty post - Elanor)
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riddikulus - Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm (#1846 of 2923)
She has used her site to dispel many rumors... I'm still counting him IN for the HBP, until she states otherwise, personally.
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scoop2172000 - Oct 13, 2004 9:04 am (#1847 of 2923)
Whoops -- hit enter by mistake. Let me try this again ....
Veronika's theory about Trevor is fascinating. At first, I laughed, but then I got to thinking ....
When did we first learn about Trevor? When Harry and Ron met Hermione on the Hogwarts Express. Who else did we learn about on that trip? Scabbers. Neville. Fred and George. The list goes on and on, but you get the idea. Certain characters that went on to become major were first introduced on the Hogwarts Express. Will Trevor turn out to be one? Accio HBP!
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haymoni - Oct 13, 2004 10:40 am (#1848 of 2923)
Who is the Quote Person here on the Forum???
I could have sworn that there was a JKR quote regarding Trevor.
It has always made me wonder.
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lobelia - Oct 13, 2004 10:52 am (#1849 of 2923)
Question: What happened to Neville's Toad?
JKR Ansewr: Trevor? He's still lurking.
That's all I can find. The Lexicon has a search function in the Quotes site.
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scoop2172000 - Oct 13, 2004 11:13 am (#1850 of 2923)
Trevor " .. still lurking." Interesting verb choice by Jo. Lurking. Hmmm ......
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
headwig: I ditto hellocello600's question. I am not aware of JKR saying at any time that the HBP has powers that rival Voldemort or Harry's powers. If she had made that statement, then I can see your point. As far as I know, JKR hasn't made any statements regarding the HBP with the exception that this was a thread of the plot that she originally thought to include in CoS but decided that it would fit better in book 6.
If you have information that we do not possess, please copy it and paste it over for all of us HP sleuths! We would be most interested and grateful.
Also, I do not call myself "bickering" with you. I consider myself to be calmly and rationally discussing items of interest with you. I don't believe that I have resorted to such lowly methods as bickering, sarcasm or YELLING. I apologize, however, if I have offended you in any manner. It has never been my intention to offend, upset, or disgruntle any of my fellow forum members. Please accept my sincerest apologies if you feel that you have been "bickered" upon.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Oct 2, 2004 9:51 am (#1802 of 2923)
TwinklingBlueEyes - "None of the above" is an option but since the next book is the "Half-Blood Prince" we need to post about someone.
If the HBP is alive than my current choice Godric Gryffindor is invalid. The list would really ballon if we added any minor or some new characters.
The only features we have is that the HBP is male, Prince not Princess. And that he's a "Half-Blood". ;-) GC
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 11:26 am (#1803 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GC: He may be a prince, or he may be someone called a prince. He may be half blood, or he may be one who is the prince of the half bloods. I think that it is more likely that he is a half-blood of royal lines, but we can't rule out any variations of the wording. With JKR we have to be careful to assume anything about the clues that she provides. We can think that certain scenarios are more likely than others, but all we truly know for certain is that he will be introduced in book 6 and that he is a male.
I wish that she would give us additional information so that we would have more to go by. Then again, I wish that she would announce that the book is complete and ready for publication. "You can't always get what you want" comes forcibly to mind.
Barbie
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 2, 2004 11:45 am (#1804 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"TwinklingBlueEyes - "None of the above" is an option but since the next book is the "Half-Blood Prince" we need to post about someone."
Actually, some of us have posted, about 1800 posts worth... ;-)
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remiden - Oct 2, 2004 2:12 pm (#1805 of 2923)
This is to Kip. Just out of curiosity, why did you edit Lord Voldie thing's post, since it was in reply to post 1781, where GC used all caps to and to post 1782 where PS used all caps, and not edit thiers? Not trying tostart anything or something like that, but following along the conversation it was not out of place.
And to GC, Why do we have to post about someone? None of the above is a perfect choice if you do not think that those you listed are the HBP.
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 2, 2004 2:58 pm (#1806 of 2923)
Remiden just made a reference to some earlier posts and I was wondering ... G.C. and P.S.- Am I in the dark about something. I do not quite see how you came to your capitalized conclusions. Can you either explain them or give me a link to the place where they are explained? I still think that James Potter as the significant figure in HP6 would fit mainly because it makes more sense in terms of Harry's own history being a key to the end of the series. There are a few good points about GG being the HPB namely the fact that in the CoS we find out that he was a champion of Half-bloods and Muggle-borns which makes him a "half-blood prince" and someone who comes into play in the second book. But for me, James Potter simply fits into the story line better. Can either of you fit Godric Gryffindor securely into the plot of the story for me? I just don't see how he could be significant enough to the specific time line of the books to be the title character. I am completely open minded but I would like to see a convincing and complete explanation of why Gryffindor is the HBP. Right now I remain firmly in place as I have managed to successfully work James into the plot of a Harry Potter book.
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 5:00 pm (#1807 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
To remiden and Classicsquid592: I would like to point out that my post was not in capitals. I quoted a single line by GC by copying and posting and his post was in capitals. One of the reasons that I did so was because I was trying to bring to GC's attention that there was no argument involved and no need to capitalize. I further stated that I agreed with his statement, and went on to explain...in an appropriate ratio of capitals... why I agreed and who I believed the half-blood prince to be. I didn't feel that I had done anything inappropriate and apologize if you feel that I have. It is not my intention to engage in yelling matches of any sort. I think that if you each would review my posting habits that you would find that I am not in the habit of yelling out my posts.
The post made by LVT was just a blanket "I think that you're quite wrong" statement, made much later in the posting thread, and left me without any clue as to why I was being disagreed with. I don't mind being corrected, disagreed with, or any of the sort, but I would like to know what I've said that a member disagrees with and why they have disagreed with me. Quite frankly, his post felt to me like a slap in the face. Imagine going about your business and having somebody approach you and yell out "I think that you're quite wrong" and then leave without further explanation.
I would also like to state for GC's benefit that the post made in question about him was made after he had made a thoughtful post. I took it to mean that he was using his capitals as an emotional statement and not a "throw down the gauntlet" sentence.
Classicsquid: I understand and appreciate your stance regarding James Potter as the Half-blood Prince. I agree that James as the HBP would make a wonderful addition to the story line. I will tell you the reasons that I hope that the HBP will be Godric Gryffindor:
We know that this storyline was suppose to originally appear in CoS. We know that in the CoS the Heir of Slytherin was originally introduced. We know that Harry discovering that he was a true Gryffindor was also a main discovery in the book. I feel that the history of Godric Gryffindor will come into play in a major way in the future. I also feel as if JKR will try to balance things by having some of Slytherin's story and some of Gryffindor's story.
We know that the uniting of the houses is becoming an important theme in winning the War. I think that in order to unite the houses, we will need to know more specifics about what came about the divide the houses. I think that GG can supply that information.
There has been much speculation as to the importance of GG. The sorting hat was originally his, his sword killed the basilisk, and there is speculation that Fawkes and the Mirror of Erised may have been his as well. There is also many items in Dumbledore's office that seem to be Gryffindor related. (The knocker comes to mind.)
In conclusion, I just feel as if the information that Godric Gryffindor has to offer will be important in the unification of the houses and winning the war. I feel that it will be important for him to make a greater appearance in order to do this. Slytherin has already been represented, so I think that Gryffindor must be as well. And we already know that Gryffindor fought with his friend to teach the half-bloods and muggle-borns. It would seem to me as if he were compassionate to them and their needs.
I have always posted that "I believed" or "I thought" such and so. I do not claim to have all of the answers, especially when it comes to speculating as to what will occur in the next two books. I don't feel that I am wrong in stating my opinions, even though I do not currently have "canon" evidence to support that they are accurate. How could I have proof to back up what I feel will occur in the future? However, I hope that I have not posted with the attitude of knowing the future of the books. Only JKR herself knows that outcome. And I will gladly, graciously, humbly, respectfully admit that I'm wrong on that happy, happy day when I hold book 6 in my hands.
I again apologize if anybody has become upset with me when I have voiced my opinions. I have not meant to upset or offend anyone. In the future, I think that I will avoid this thread since it seems to evoke such strong emotions. I would like to remind the members that since HP6 has not yet been released, that this is meant to be a thread for the things that we believe will occur. Unfortunately, beliefs are often strongly tied to emotion.
Barbie
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 2, 2004 5:10 pm (#1808 of 2923)
I apologize if I appeared to have any emotion tied into my post, I was simply wondering exactly what the Godric Gryffindor argument was as I had not heard it in full. You have many good points. However I constantly get this mental image of JKR sitting there reading this argument, rolling on the floor laughing about how completely wrong we all are. I think that the Half-blood prince is James, you think it is Godric, but it is probably actually Sir Nicholas, a dancing skeleton, one of the Valentine's Day dwarfs, or Salazar Slytherin, the Half-blood hypocrite.
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 8:54 pm (#1809 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Classicsquid: You know, you're right. I'm sorry that I've had too much emotion tied into my post as well. Things haven't being going well for me, and this weekend is horrid. I logged on for a few moments of reprieve to find that it appears that I was unknowingly in the middle of some sort of controversy. I am by no means even a nearly perfect person. But I do strive to be a peaceful one. I truly dislike being involved in anything that offends anyone. I have found this forum to be a saving grace in my life lately. There are many warm, wonderful, brilliant people here and I do not wish to upset any one of them. I am constantly trying to not offend or upset anybody, and being that we are all people that's an impossible task to successfully undertake. Please forgive me for being so wounded and raw.
I can truly see Jo laughing at us all. Thinking, "Clever, but not clever enough!", and also, "Where do they dream these things up?" And I'm also certain that there is some minuscule clue that even the super sleuths haven't picked up on that will solve the entire mystery of not only the identity of the HBP but also the ending of the series. We'll just have to keep plugging on though until we have the next installment. (It's a tough wait, though!)
I think that the discussion of who's the HBP is actually more intense because she's ruled out Harry and Voldemort. If she hadn't, most of us would be torn between the two characters. Knocking them out of the running has actually broadened the field instead of narrowing it.
Barbie
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Sherbie Lemon - Oct 2, 2004 9:03 pm (#1810 of 2923)
Barbie, (nice avatar by the way ) you forgot to add something to your list of reasons that name GG as the half-blood prince, "He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen, yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp." Now, I know the inspiration behind this description has been argued many times on many threads; still yet, I feel that the above quote is describing the HBP and I feel (today, at least ) that the HBP is Godric Gryffindor.
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Phoenix song - Oct 2, 2004 9:14 pm (#1811 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
You're absolutely right, Sherbie. That description screams out GG to me, for sure. And how could two people with such good tastes in men (Mr. Big), books (HP, of course), TV (obvious!) and music (The Beatles) be wrong?
Barbie
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Sherbie Lemon - Oct 2, 2004 9:30 pm (#1812 of 2923)
Going by our incredible taste and impecable judgement, I can safely say that we could not be wrong. Of course, there was a time when I was certain Hagrid was a gonner and Riddle was the HBP.
It was actually that passage that convinced me. Before that appeared on JKR's site, I did not put much stock into the GG as the HBP theory. Now however, I strongly feel that the lion man described is Godric and that he is the Half-Blood Prince, or rather, the Prince of Half-Bloods.
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gypsy68 - Oct 3, 2004 1:22 am (#1813 of 2923)
I reckon that this is gonna be the title. i have read the interview she did in scotland and it sounds pretty authentic to me!
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 3, 2004 5:18 am (#1814 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
Hi. I saw that piece of information on "THE TELEGRAPH" website probably 2 or 3 days after the title of the book was released.
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Gerald Costales - Oct 3, 2004 6:19 am (#1815 of 2923)
Another two knuts abouts Godric Gryffindor as the HBP. If the Lion-like person is Godric, then it could the reason that the mascot for Gryffindor House is also a Lion. Remember, Slytherin House's mascot is a serpent since Salazar Slytherin spoke to serpents.
Both Dumbledore and McGonagall are Transfiguration teachers. We know that McGonagall is an animagus. And there has been speculation that possibly Dumbledore is also an animagus.
If Parseltongue is a feature of a Slytherin, then couldn't being a Animagus be a possible feature of a Gryffindor?
Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs were all animagi and all Gryffindors. I know Rita Skeeter doesn't seem to be a Gryffindor, but Wormtail a Gryffindor is currently with Voldermort.
Sometihings are not set in stone, "There isn't a Dark Wizard that has been in Slytherin." (Hope I got that quote right.) I would think Wormtail is a Dark Wizard by serving Voldermort. And Harry is a Parseltongue without being a Slytherin.
There is some confusion if the HBP is alive in the present time. That the HBP has powers that rival Harry and Voldermort. The word "has" is in the present tense it's not "had" past tense. If that's true then Godric can't be the HBP, unless JKR has something up her sleeve.
I always saw the HBP being revealed in a flashback similar to the scenes describing the killings of Tom Riddle's father and grandparents.
I will also be more careful with my use of CAPS *wink*. ;-) GC
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 3, 2004 10:14 am (#1816 of 2923)
I think in a chat JKR said that Hagrid was exagerating when he said that so the line you refer to ("There isn't a dark wizard that hasn't been in Slytherin") doesn't mean exactly what it said. The line refers to the fact that as a whole Slytherin represents evil.
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Saud - Oct 3, 2004 4:17 pm (#1817 of 2923)
How exactly did they fight the last war between DE's and OotP? I just want to know what we are expecting for the future. So far all we have seen is stealth attacks and guarding weapons. Will it ever become an all-out war of some sort? And are there any places which are worth gaining control over which would enable a party to gain more control over another? 'The Weapon' that the OotP were guarding was the prophecy right? What was there so important in it that made them risk the members lives??
I'll go with none of the above as the HBP.
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Phoenix song - Oct 4, 2004 3:41 am (#1818 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Saud: " 'The Weapon' that the OotP were guarding was the prophecy right? What was there so important in it that made them risk the members lives??"
It was knowledge that they were really guarding from the DEs. The full knowledge of the prophesy would give Voldemort a clearer understanding of the link between Harry and himself. The Order's greatest advantage, really, is in the knowledge that they hold of how to vanquish Voldemort that Voldemort does not possess. If Voldemort knew fully the prophesy, then he would bend his will to trying to circumvent the prophesy. (Which may not even be possible, as Greek tragedies have shown us. Those who often seek to avoid fulfilling their prophesies often succeed in unwittingly bringing about their completion. See Oedipus Rex.)
All that I can remember about the original war is that the Order members were outnumbered greatly. I seem to remember that Lupin said that they were outnumbered 20 to 1. They probably spent a great deal of time trying to decipher who they could trust, who was being controlled under the Imperious curse, and the like. I may be wrong, though, but I don't remember much more. We do know, though, that the Potters and the Longbottoms successfully defied Voldemort three times each. That sounds to me as if there were some battles like the MoM confrontation.
I'm certain that we will see many more battles and confrontations in book 6, the HBP. I am looking forward to having some of these questions answered. She said that now was the time for questions and not more clues. I for one am ready!
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Oct 4, 2004 6:22 am (#1819 of 2923)
Saud (re: post #1819)
"How exactly did they fight the last war between DE's and OotP?"
I envision small skimishes not pitch battles. If the clashes were too big Muggles would notice. But, if giants were involved, that could be another matter.
We know Muggles were killed and how the MoM handled that I don't know.
The Death Eaters will be using hit and run tactics, ambushes, etc. just keeping one step ahead of the Aurors and MoM. ;-) GC
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 6, 2004 7:28 pm (#1820 of 2923)
Well, I do like the idea of the HBP having something to do with GG, because this rift in the WW seems to have started 1000 years ago with the founders and I want details on that.
Still, there is a long list of half-blood and possibly half-blood wizards in the books, but I can only think of one reference to a prince. Quirrell said he got his turban from an African prince as a reward for getting rid of a zombie. Of course, we know he was wearing it to cover up the unsightly blemish of Voldemort growing out the back of his head, but I still wonder if there is something in that reference to a prince.
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Phoenix song - Oct 6, 2004 7:43 pm (#1821 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Mrs. Brisbee: I agree with you whole heartedly. Since the rift between GG and SS that began 1000 years ago has culminated in the approaching war, I feel that it is appropriate to have more details on that. I don't think that we can truly win the war until we know all that is involved in its original conception.
There is one other mention of royalty in the books. There is mention of a King...King Weasley.
Barbie
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vball man - Oct 6, 2004 8:44 pm (#1822 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
There is one other mention of royalty in the books. There is mention of a King...King Weasley. - Phoenix Song
There are two others that I can think of.
In PS Quirrell is rumored to have gotten his turban from an African prince.
In OoP DD tells Harry that Harry was raised as a normal boy, not a pampered prince.
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Phoenix song - Oct 6, 2004 9:16 pm (#1823 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
We had already discussed the turban from the African prince. I had overlooked the "pampered prince" comment from Dumbledore, though.
Actually, there are lots of "royal" references in the books. Even Fleur translates to "Flower of the Court" as in a maid of nobility. There are obviously references to the queens in the chess trial. All of the Weasley men seem to have royal names as well: Arthur (as in King!), Charles, William, Percival, Frederick, George, and Ronald. On the top of my head I can't think of any others right now, but that because my brain is so tired! One thing is certain, JKR is an extremely clever woman and I can't wait until we have book 6!
Barbie
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 7, 2004 5:25 am (#1824 of 2923)
True, it might be a metaphorical prince rather than a real one, though the only real one mentioned is the African guy--though actually he might not be real, since Quirrell only brought him up to explain his headgear.
Pheonix Song, I never gave Fleure's last name a moments thought, thanks for the translation.
Wasn't there a Bulgarian prince named Krum whose defeat of his enemies caused a major world political shift many centuries ago? My brain is really fuzzy on this, I'll have to look it up. Doubt it has anything to do with the HBP anyway.
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remiden - Oct 7, 2004 5:59 am (#1825 of 2923)
I am still in the James Potter corner, with the quote Vball man posted anout Harry not being raised as a pampered prince helping to tie me down there. Maybe that was a hint tat DD was comparing James to Harry and could also be another reason why Snape did not like James.
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Yvette Reed - Oct 7, 2004 2:02 pm (#1826 of 2923)
I've seen a few references to the African prince. The African prince may in fact have been Dean Thomas' real father, therefore making Dean Thomas the HBP. Remember, Dean Thomas' story line was cut from CS just as the HBP story line was cut from CS. I don't think that this is a coincidence. Dean Thomas is a half-blood, so it could make sense that the Dean Thomas story line (real father killed by death eaters even though Dean thought his father abandoned him, etc) is in fact the same story line as the HBP.
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Ann - Oct 7, 2004 5:47 pm (#1827 of 2923)
Yvette Reed, that's a great connection! I thought it might be Dean, too, since she says his story was originally part of Chamber of Secrets, but that she cut it--and that book, too, was originally titled the Half-Blood Prince. But I didn't connect it with Quirrell's grateful prince.
But unfortunately, she says on her website that she doesn't think she'll ever use Dean's story now--that it has been sacrificed to emphasize Neville's instead. She doesn't always give us complete information, but I don't think she actually lies, and if she'd said that while writing a book whose title is a reference to Dean's story, that would be a pretty blatant lie.
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vball man - Oct 7, 2004 8:49 pm (#1828 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
...Harry not being raised as a pampered prince helping to tie me down there. Maybe that was a hint tat DD was comparing James to Harry - Remiden
Interesting thought. My prediction, though, is that DD was a "Boy who lived" just as Harry was, and that DD was raised as a "pampered prince." Thus DD would be the HBP. (see RBL theory)
I really like most of the theories on here, though. Wow - you guys have excellent minds!
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VeronikaG - Oct 8, 2004 12:58 pm (#1829 of 2923)
I want to offer my own theory as well. It's been a while since I last cooked up a wild theory. I have two theories about who could be the HBP, one a little bit sicker than the other.
1: The half blood prince is Trevor. No, I'm not completely joking. Frogs and toads is tales are often princes and princesses who have been cast a spell on. Trevor, who is constantly trying to run away from Neville could be the Half Blood Prince permanently transfigured to a toad, trying to get help. I know that would be a bit of a re-run on Scabbers, but HBP (the book) is possibly similar to POA in some ways, if Jo really uses a pattern.
2: The Half-Blood prince is Draco. Yes, yes, I know he's supposed to be a pure-blood. But what if he isn't? What if he suddenly discovers that he's half-blood? How could he be? He looks much like his father, so he is definitely related to him. No cheating Narcissa there. That leaves either the unlikely possibility that Narcissa is not his mother, or the more believable one, that either the Malfoys or the Blacks had an impure relation. This person has been kept secret for ages, and did supposedly not have any significance. But somehow it is discovered now.
How would Draco react to these news? First, he'd be shocked, furious and in denial. Then he could either come to terms with it, and get his priorities straight, or he could go all full of hatred towards everybody, and become a really dangerous person.
Where do the "prince" title come in? Well, Draco is the heir of the Malfoy dynasty. He's also the only remaining male descendants of the Blacks. He really has a prince status in the dark wizard community. He has up until now looked at a bright future where he'll come into a lot of power when he grows up. Now his dad is sitting discredited in jail, and the Malfoys have been outed as dark wizards. Draco is facing a fall from grace for sure. If there is ever a time for him to discover he's half-blood, it's now, with his biggest source of bad influence away. Maybe if Lucius stays away for long enough, Draco may have had time to work through things before daddy returns, and not follow him anymore. Lucius may not know about his sons blood status, and have a shock as well. There is also a chance that Draco wants more than ever to get his father's approval after finding out he's half-blood, and will do lots of evil things to be accepted.
OK, now you can poke lots of holes in my theories.
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Dr Filibuster - Oct 8, 2004 1:53 pm (#1830 of 2923)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Veronika, your 1st theory made me smile. Do you think that Luna will kiss the toad just to check if he's a prince?
Your 2nd theory would be very intriging. It would turn Draco's world completely upside down.
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Merlyn - Oct 8, 2004 2:52 pm (#1831 of 2923)
Re: VeronikaG's idea of Trevor being the HBP..neat idea..maybe he turns into the person that JKR described on the page from the HBP book..
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Mrs Brisbee - Oct 8, 2004 3:53 pm (#1832 of 2923)
It was the idea that Draco could be the HBP that made me smile! It would definately be entertaining. Very entertaining. Heck, the thought of it will keep me chuckling diabolically all evening, just picturing Draco's face when he discovers he's not pure-blood.
You know, he is always described as "holding court" at the Slytherin table.
A lot of characters have something that suggests royalty about them. I was sure that there had been a "Prince Krum," but apparently I was thinking of Khan Krum of Bulgaria, who defeated the invading Byzantium Empire back in the 9th century. Still royalty though. I'm sure I read once a book on the Byzantium Empire that called him "Prince Krum," but I couldn't find it so resorted to an encyclopedia.
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Yvette Reed - Oct 8, 2004 5:14 pm (#1833 of 2923)
Kudos to Veronika's Draco theory! That would be irony at it's best. Hermione might glean just the tiniest satisfaction from that.
I also just want to say in reference to Dean, Rowling stated she "didn't think" she would use him, not that she never would. Misleading, devious, but not lying.
I could be wrong, it could be Crookshanks for all I know, as I've seen some suggest, but I think Dean's character means alot to Rowling. He meant enough to her to insist that Chris cast him as a black londoner in the movie, a point that is irrelevant if she never uses his background. So I still have my suspicions. I wish we at least had a release date! Argggh!
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Eliza - Oct 8, 2004 7:06 pm (#1834 of 2923)
I have read alot of theories and I too think the Blacks are involved in the HBP. However, I feel that Sirius had a child with a muggle. I think that he may have ended up in Azkaban before he even found out that she was pregnant. She may not have even been aware that he was a wizard. This would add an interesting aspect as Harry would have to deal with the son of the man he considered to be a father figure and the feelings that this boy inherited everything that was left of the man he loved so dearly. At the same time, he would feel sad that this boy, like himself, would never know his father. It is quite possible that we have already met this character as he would be nearly 2 years younger than Harry. The irony being that he entered Hogwarts the same year that Harry met Sirius. He probably will not know he is Sirius' son until book 6.
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Ann - Oct 9, 2004 7:36 am (#1835 of 2923)
Yvette said, 'I also just want to say in reference to Dean, Rowling stated she "didn't think" she would use him, not that she never would. Misleading, devious, but not lying.'
I don't agree: to say she "didn't think" she was going to use him when she also said she was about halfway through a book where he was the title character is more than misleading or devious. By my standards, it's lying. So I don't think Dean can possibly be the HBP. She could end up using the story in Book 7, or as an incidental story here, even, but not as the main theme of the book. If she were doing that she would have been much less straightforward: "It's such a nice story, I really regretted having to set it aside" or something along those lines. (Remember, this wasn't an interview Q&A, she was writing.)
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Star Crossed - Oct 9, 2004 12:05 pm (#1836 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Someone said they wished for a release date, well, I don't have that, but MSN reported:
The sixth book in the series, "Harry Potter And The Half-Blood Prince," is due to be published next year.
Looks like it will come out next summer!
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Flutterby - Oct 9, 2004 12:53 pm (#1837 of 2923)
Tom Riddle is way older than James Potter. Tom was at Hogwarts 50 years before harry was there. So Tom would of had to be at Hogwarts at least 30 years before James and Lily, so for James to beat Tom out of the Prince title would be hard.
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Flutterby - Oct 9, 2004 2:25 pm (#1838 of 2923)
Dalus Kulich - Sep 25, 2004 - “I checked on jkrowling.com, and she said that Harry is not a close relative of Voldemort and not a descendent of Salazaar Slytherin. So, I guess with that information, Harry could be a distant relative of Voldemort's on Voldemort's mother's side.”
If Harry's grandparents were muggles couldn't he and Voldemort be related through them?
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haymoni - Oct 9, 2004 4:53 pm (#1839 of 2923)
Can't speak for Jo, but I think Dumbledore's comment that Voldy was the last relative/ancestor (whatever the word was) of Salazar Slytherin was there to tell Harry that he is NOT related to Voldy.
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Ann - Oct 10, 2004 11:48 am (#1840 of 2923)
Haymoni, if he's not related to Slytherin, that presumably means he is not related on Riddle's mother's side (and, presumably, on the magical Potter side). But it's possible that he's related on the Riddle/Evans side--although actually I think the Riddles seem to have more in common with Vernon Dursley than the Evans parents who were "proud to have a witch in the family."
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Madame Kulich - Oct 10, 2004 7:36 pm (#1841 of 2923)
Flutterby - it is Lily's parents that are muggles from what I understand, so, that is basically what I meant when I wrote, "So, I guess with that information, Harry could be a distant relative of Voldemort's on Voldemort's mother's side.”
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Bravelionheart07 - Oct 11, 2004 5:12 pm (#1842 of 2923)
Not usre if this has been suggested (I don't have time to read through all 1800-something messages) or not, but someone pointed out Hagrid's possible elligibility. He's probably not, but you never know.
First off, he's half-blood. His father was a wizard, and his mother was a giant. Half-blood.
Second, as someone pointed out, was that his mother is Fridwulfa, and I believe, though not sure, that she was a quenn, which would make Hagrid a prince.
Can anyone tell me if Fridwulfa was a queen? i remember reading that somewhere, but I know that nwo that I've opened my mouth, I'll be wrong. Please correct me if I am.
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Star Crossed - Oct 11, 2004 6:34 pm (#1843 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Personally, I feel Hagrid can never be the HBP, because for one thing, he's referred to half breed, not half blood.
Also, Fridwulfa was never referred to as queen. As far as we know, they don't even have queens. They just have gurgs, who is determined by strength, rather than bloodline.
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haymoni - Oct 12, 2004 7:27 am (#1844 of 2923)
Bravelionheart - I used comments similar to yours to argue that Hagrid was the HBP. Fridwulfa was never called "Queen" but she was mentioned in the article in such a way that it seemed as though everyone should know her. "his mother is none other than the giantess Fridwulfa." He is a half blood, we don't know his full story. I thought for certain it was Hagrid.
However...it has been reported that 2 separate, unrelated individuals asked JKR at her Edinburgh reading if Hagrid was the HBP and she said no. I don't know if we ever received confirmation of this but apparently the sources were reliable and unrelated to one another so they each had their own separate experience with her.
Alas, earwax!
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remiden - Oct 12, 2004 8:57 pm (#1845 of 2923)
(Empty post - Elanor)
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riddikulus - Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm (#1846 of 2923)
She has used her site to dispel many rumors... I'm still counting him IN for the HBP, until she states otherwise, personally.
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scoop2172000 - Oct 13, 2004 9:04 am (#1847 of 2923)
Whoops -- hit enter by mistake. Let me try this again ....
Veronika's theory about Trevor is fascinating. At first, I laughed, but then I got to thinking ....
When did we first learn about Trevor? When Harry and Ron met Hermione on the Hogwarts Express. Who else did we learn about on that trip? Scabbers. Neville. Fred and George. The list goes on and on, but you get the idea. Certain characters that went on to become major were first introduced on the Hogwarts Express. Will Trevor turn out to be one? Accio HBP!
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haymoni - Oct 13, 2004 10:40 am (#1848 of 2923)
Who is the Quote Person here on the Forum???
I could have sworn that there was a JKR quote regarding Trevor.
It has always made me wonder.
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lobelia - Oct 13, 2004 10:52 am (#1849 of 2923)
Question: What happened to Neville's Toad?
JKR Ansewr: Trevor? He's still lurking.
That's all I can find. The Lexicon has a search function in the Quotes site.
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scoop2172000 - Oct 13, 2004 11:13 am (#1850 of 2923)
Trevor " .. still lurking." Interesting verb choice by Jo. Lurking. Hmmm ......
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haymoni - Oct 13, 2004 12:20 pm (#1851 of 2923)
No - it was something more than that. Something like "keep your eye on Trevor".
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Julia. - Oct 13, 2004 5:22 pm (#1852 of 2923)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Is this what you're looking for Haymoni?
What happened to Neville's Toad?
Trevor? He's still lurking. (Comic Relief March 2001)
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 4:10 am (#1853 of 2923)
No - that's not it. I think it was from something earlier than that.
Oh, who knows? It could have been something someone said here. I know it was way before Round Pink Spider posted her theories, so I didn't get it from there.
I don't read any fanfiction just for this reason. I have enough trouble trying to remember canon!
Goes off to lurk with Trevor...
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 14, 2004 10:39 am (#1854 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Be careful haymoni - lurking could get you in trouble. Neville might file charges on you for stalking him. Loved your post.
Mikie
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KingWeasley - Oct 15, 2004 4:17 pm (#1855 of 2923)
Neville could not even hold on to his remembrall for more than a year. How could he manage to hold on to Trever for so long unless Trever, like Scabbers, had a reason to want to sick around. Hmmm...
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 16, 2004 3:43 am (#1856 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
I don't think that Trevor will turn out to be another Scabbers. Remember Neville has been losing Trevor;ever since he came to Hogwarts.Trevor has been found luking in toilets,in hogwarts train and at many other places.He hasn't exactly been sticking with Neville all this time.
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Phoenix song - Oct 16, 2004 8:07 am (#1857 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Toads aren't usually described as "lurking", though. Doesn't this (at least) seem to be a clue that there is more to Trevor than just an "unfashionable" toad? It's also curious how he's found in areas that are later important to the outcome of the book.
I hope that JKR clears up the Trevor questions and the Mimbulus mystery (among others) in book 6.
Barbie
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Ozymandias - Oct 16, 2004 7:37 pm (#1858 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Barbie, do you have examples of Trevor being found in areas that later turn out to be important? I've never noticed that, but it sounds very interesting.
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Eliza - Oct 16, 2004 9:07 pm (#1859 of 2923)
I was just thinking... What about Dobby? I mean he is a very odd house elf. Maybe he is not pure. That would make him eligible for HBP status and would explain why he was able to leave the Malfoy's House without permission. And his less elfish goals
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Star Crossed - Oct 17, 2004 5:27 am (#1860 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ozy, the only thing I can think of is when we found Trevor in the GCR when HRH thought everyone went to sleep so they could sneak out to save the SS/PS.
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Steve Newton - Oct 17, 2004 5:49 am (#1861 of 2923)
Librarian
I think that Trevor was found near the chickens in COS. (This may be important if you check out how basilisks are born.)
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legolas - Oct 17, 2004 6:44 am (#1862 of 2923)
Wasnt trevor found once in the toilets?
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Urvi Bhimani - Oct 17, 2004 9:52 am (#1863 of 2923)
Has anyone mentioned the possibility of Godric Gryffindor being the half-blood prince? It makes sense, because he was in the Chamber of Secrets and Rowling said that it is something that Harry finds out in Chamber that leads him to other things in book six. I personally don't like the theory of Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor, but it is highly possible, since he did pull out Gryffindor's sword out of the Sorting Hat. Maybe this is why it is prophesized that only Harry can kill Voldemort, or in vice versa, because they are the Heirs of Slytherin and Gryffindor.
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Star Crossed - Oct 17, 2004 11:27 am (#1864 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Urvi, the possibility of GG being the HBP is a very popular one. In fact, I'm one of the believers. I also believe that Harry is not the heir of Gryffindor. So, you're not alone.
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Phoenix song - Oct 18, 2004 10:24 am (#1865 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Ozymandias: "Barbie, do you have examples of Trevor being found in areas that later turn out to be important? I've never noticed that, but it sounds very interesting."
Right off I would have to agree with Steve that he was found around the chickens in CoS. As a basilisk is hatched by a toad sitting on a chicken egg (or something like that) then that would be important. Right now my brain is malfunctioning and I can't find the passage, but will try again later.
He was also found in a corner of the toilets at the end of PS/SS. We later found out that the tunnel to the Chamber of Secrets began in a bathroom. It doesn't state that he was found in Myrtle's bathroom, but it doesn't not state it, either. (Terrible use of negatives, I apologize to all English lovers out there, but was trying to be clear.) My point is that if the bathroom wasn't a clue then Trevor would have been found lurking in the corner of the boys' bathroom, or the girls' bathroom...whatever. I'd also like to point out that it could have been a girl would found Trevor. The text doesn't actually state either way.
I've found that sometimes what Jo doesn't say can be a larger clue than what she does say when giving clues. First off, she doesn't seem to just put in random bits of information that have no meaning in the story whatsoever. It seems as if every passage is helping the story to move forward. So I don't think that Trevor could possibly be unimportant (just as all of the other named animals have been important.) I also think that her descriptions of Trevor are telling. Frogs don't usually "lurk", they don't usually scamper all over the place (Trevor really moves about the castle), and Trevor is constantly trying to evade Neville. He just seems too suspicious to me.
Also, we know that Uncle Algie gave Trevor to Neville. I think that we can agree that any guy that tries to drown his young nephew or drops him out of an upper story window can't be a really great guy. Plus, his name is Algie, which sounds like but is spelled differently than ALGAE. Algae is, of course, basically pond scum. I've never heard the term "pond scum" used to refer to someone that is trustworthy and honorable. So, I don't trust Uncle Algie OR his gifts to Trevor.
I think that there are still many secrets left to discover about Neville. I hope that she clears up a lot of questions about him in the Half blood Prince. (I'd hate to go on wondering until the completion of the seventh book!)
In all fairness to Trevor, I will admit that I know that there are many people who believe that Trevor is the half-blood prince. The fairy tale where there is a prince trapped in the body of a toad by an evil enchantment would fit in well here. I don't personally buy it, but it is interesting regardless.
Barbie
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haymoni - Oct 18, 2004 12:20 pm (#1866 of 2923)
Could Trevor be one of those Frog things in the POA movie?
I don't have "Fantastic Beasts", but didn't someone find a frog-like animal that did something when danger approached?
Maybe Trevor is one of these creatures.
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Phoenix song - Oct 18, 2004 12:25 pm (#1867 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
haymoni: "I don't have "Fantastic Beasts", but didn't someone find a frog-like animal that did something when danger approached?"
That's a good question. Unfortunately, my kids have scurried off with my copy of Fantastic Beasts and I can't look it up either. I'll try to find another source.
Barbie
EDIT: I checked out the listing of beasts on the Lex. The animal that you were thinking about was called a Clabbert. I'm afraid that it couldn't be what Trevor is, (not full blooded anyway) because it's a mixture of monkey and frog. Good idea, though.
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haymoni - Oct 18, 2004 1:09 pm (#1868 of 2923)
A monkey and a frog??? - I'm sorry but that is just WRONG!!
Back to the topic...I really wish we could get some confirmation on Hagrid not being the HBP. I was just so sure!
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 18, 2004 2:49 pm (#1869 of 2923)
Haymoni, they are called Clabberts. To avoid getting off topic let's go to the Magizoology thread. I had been in the Hagrid camp for a while, but there was an announcement on Mugglenet that JKR had told someone that Hagrid was not the HBP at the Edinburgh conference during the book signings. It was uncomfirmed but the best we've got.
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VeronikaG - Oct 22, 2004 3:03 am (#1870 of 2923)
Algie is probably short for Algernon. If I remember correctly, Algernon is the main character in Oscar Wilde's "The importance of being Earnest". He's kind of a dodge fella, so maybe the name was inspired from there. I don't remeber the whole story, but if any of you Trevor-supporters do, please try and see if you can fit Trevor into a plot with an "Ernest-inspired" uncle.
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Miriam Huber - Oct 22, 2004 3:43 am (#1871 of 2923)
Perhaps I am only repeating what someone said a hundred posts before - sorry, the thread is too long now for me to read it completely.
I think that the word "prince" is almost more important than the word "half-blood" (for guessing, not necessarily for the story, of course), because "prince" means (imho):
either: it is a person of the past because there is no wizard monarchy nowadays
or: it is a someone´s nickname. (or both!)
I think most living people (or dead since some years only) we already know, like James Potter, Hagrid (who, by the way, as some have already pointed out, is half-breed, not half-blood - JKs terminology is quite clear here), Dean ... are ruled out, therefore.
It might be Godric Gryffindor, although up until now we´ve never heard of him being a prince. (I don´t think he will, it is too easy a guess, Jo wouldn´t do that. I don´t think it is guessable who the HBP is, at least to me. That is why I don´t have a suggestion to make - sorry. But perhaps someone really clever on this forum will work it out?)
But, concerning GG, I would like to add that I don´t think Harry is a heir of him, because Rowling stresses again and again that what really counts are CHOICES, not BLOOD RELATIONS (that concerns some other speculations about possible relatives of Harry, too) - very, very clearly, for example, when, at the end of CS, Harry and Dumbledore talk about the Sorting Hat and a certain sword of a certain Hogwarts founder...
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Joelle - Oct 22, 2004 1:39 pm (#1872 of 2923)
Algie could also refer to the book flowers for Algernon. in which a mentally retarded man and mouse get smarter, then because of the procedure end up dieing. Sad. I dont know. Just a thought
HBP i think will be a new person.
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shadowfax - Oct 23, 2004 9:10 pm (#1873 of 2923)
I've read somewhere that the HBP is someone we've meet before in CoS.
But for some reason I believe that we have not meet this character yet. Even though she has given us clues in OoTP, I think this person has been hidden in the back ground and will be introduced to us in the next book.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 23, 2004 10:02 pm (#1874 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"I've read somewhere that the HBP is someone we've meet before in CoS."
I'd love the link please, or reference?
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shadowfax - Oct 24, 2004 10:12 am (#1875 of 2923)
Hi Twinkling Blue Eyes , fancy meeting you again ...LOL . I think I
read the HBP thing on (The Scotman.com)In the JKR and HP latest news.
You can also find it under ( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )since I get
it sent to my e-mail directly from them. Also I think it might have been mentioned on another HP site.
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remiden - Oct 24, 2004 12:40 pm (#1876 of 2923)
Actually, what you are talking about is that JK said that the HBP storyline was once in CoS, but was removed because she felt it made more sense in a later book. She does not say that the HBP is in fact mentioned in CoS, nor does she say that she wrote him out of the book entirely. She only said that she removed the storyline which still leaves it completely WIDE open as to whether it is a new character or an old one.
On another note, JK states on her website that she chose Neville's history over Deans because it is more inportant to the overall plot. So here is my question about Dean. JK has talked about different character's backgrounds without hesitation, and reading what Dean's background would be, she could have added it to the story in just a paragraph and later allowed him or Harry to find out about Dean's past. She could have easily used Harry's experience with Dumbledore's pensive to show one of the DEs kill Dean's Father or simply had Malfoy make a snide comment toward dean. There would have been ton's of ways to add the history of a character that Rowling really likes and not affect the overall storyline with it. SO, finally, my question. What is so important about Dean's background that it would have overshadowed Neville's? It would not simply be that the DEs cursed both of their parents, for the DEs cursed alot of people apparently, so it would have to be something much more important. I am not saying that Dean is the HBP, only that there was or is something in his background that Rowling has felt the need to hide from us up until this point.
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remiden - Oct 24, 2004 12:43 pm (#1877 of 2923)
I also feel that as Hagrid has been ruled out because of Rowling's established criteria for being a half blood or a half breed, you also have to rule out Dobby along the same grounds.
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The Weaslys - Oct 24, 2004 12:53 pm (#1878 of 2923)
Hi, I'm new to this but want to give it a try in order to find out some HBP information. We (my kids and I) go to the JKR site and know that at one time she showed an excerpt from her book behind the door, but can't find out where we could read it now since we missed seeing in on her site. Does anyone know where we could read it for ourselves? Can't wait until October 31 which is when we think she will reveal something new behind the door. Thanks for your help.
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Good Evans - Oct 24, 2004 12:59 pm (#1879 of 2923)
Practically perfect in every way
Hi The Weaslys, if you go to the JKR website thread on the forum you will find the message posted (you will have to go back some way but it is there). You cant read it on JKR's website now as it was behind the door and the door is closed again (nor is it liekly to be there when the door reopens as the half blood prince scrap of paper is also gone (the previous surprise)). This type of query, for future reference would be better on the JKR website thread, as it will be picked up more quickly there. Hope that helps
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The Weaslys - Oct 24, 2004 1:12 pm (#1880 of 2923)
Thank You so much for your reply, I'll try there.
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 24, 2004 2:06 pm (#1881 of 2923)
On another note, JK states on her website that she chose Neville's history over Deans because it is more inportant to the overall plot. So here is my question about Dean. JK has talked about different character's backgrounds without hesitation, and reading what Dean's background would be, she could have added it to the story in just a paragraph and later allowed him or Harry to find out about Dean's past.
I disagree. I think it was pretty complicated stuff, with his father disappearing and then being a supposed Death Eater, and then not a Death Eater but someone who refused to join them. The problem is that the characters have to find out all of this. It's not like Sirius' explanation concerning Regulus' death, because there's nobody on the good side (not even Dean's mother), who knows the whole truth. Therefore Dean someone had to find it out, maybe even learning it through the Death Eaters who killed his father (they could have mocked Dean like Bellatrix mocked Neville). And then JKR has to include Dean's reaction to finding out the truth. It wouldn't make any sense to just mention this stuff without seeing how it affects Dean. Therefore I think it would have been impossible to explain Dean's history in just one paragraph, it's probably stuff for several books.
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 24, 2004 6:47 pm (#1882 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
It has been stated in various forums that in HBP Harry is going to become more accomplished and polished in his wizarding powers. His skills will need to be honed and developed in order for him to eventually take on Voldemort for their final battle.
I am going to be very interested if in the process of developing his powers he will discover a reduction in the pain he experiences from his scar. For example as he becomes accomplished at Occlumency will he find that he can not only block Voldemort from his thoughts but also block the pain he feels that accompanies Voldemorts feelings?
Mikie
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Ann - Oct 24, 2004 7:50 pm (#1883 of 2923)
I agree that Dean's story is no small, incidental plot. People have suggested that he might be the half-blood prince (possibly in connection with the African prince Quirrell mentions), but others (including me) have argued that if JKR was going to use his backstory in Book 6 (which she'd have to if Dean were the half-blood prince), she wouldn't have said so unambiguously that she'd sacrificed Dean's voyage of self-discovery and thought she would probably never use it now.
But I just was reminded on another thread that at the end of OotP, Ginny said that she's been dating Dean, which, if she continues to date him into Book 6, will inevitably increase his role in the story and would be a perfect set-up to the "self-discovery." So I am in a quandary. Maybe he is the HBP after all??? Would she do that to us?
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Zirtaheb - Oct 25, 2004 1:31 am (#1884 of 2923)
I read in a spanish forum that the first chapter of book 6 can be related with the momentoin which Voldemort look himself in Erised mirror.
It has sense because Rowling thought to put this chapter in all the rest of the books, so it has to be a general idea.
What do you think about?
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remiden - Oct 25, 2004 1:59 am (#1885 of 2923)
In the one paragraph, I simply meant that she could introduce you to him not having a father, which I am unsure if she did or not. She has added background on different characters that hace no point to the plot, so Dean's would not have been a big deal. Certainly not big enough to warrant specific mention on her website.
Here is the exact mention.
"Dean Thomas's background (Chamber of Secrets) Anybody who has read both the American and British versions of 'Philosopher's Stone' will notice that Dean Thomas's appearance is not mentioned in the British book, whereas in the American one there is a line describing him (in the chapter 'The Sorting Hat').
This was an editorial cut in the British version; my editor thought that chapter was too long and pruned everything that he thought was surplus to requirements. When it came to the casting on the film version of 'Philosopher's Stone', however, I told the director, Chris, that Dean was a black Londoner. In fact, I think Chris was slightly taken aback by the amount of information I had on this peripheral character. I had a lot of background on Dean, though I had never found the right place to use it. His story was included in an early draft of 'Chamber of Secrets' but then cut by me, because it felt like an unnecessary digression. Now I don't think his history will ever make it into the books.
Dean is from what he always thought was a pure Muggle background. He has been raised by his mother and his stepfather; his father walked out on the family when Dean was very young. He has a very happy home life, with a number of half-brothers and sisters.
Naturally when the letter came from Hogwarts Dean's mother wondered whether his father might have been a wizard, but nobody has ever discovered the truth: that Dean's father, who had never told his wife what he was because he wanted to protect her, got himself killed by Death Eaters when he refused to join them. The projected story had Dean discovering all this during his school career. I suppose in some ways I sacrificed Dean's voyage of discovery for Neville's, which is more important to the central plot."
Here's what would support Dean's nomination as the HBP.
1. He is a Half-Blood. 2. JK edited out the HBP story line out of CoS because it didn't really fit in. JK edited out Dean Thomas's storyline from CoS because she felt it didn't really fit in. 3. Rowling kept a surprising amount of info on a background character, and was specific that the info be kept in the movie. 4. This line "I suppose in some ways I sacrificed Dean's voyage of discovery for Neville's, which is more important to the central plot." is vague as to whether or not Dean's back story has in fact been cut from the series or not. In what "ways" did she sacrifice his back story, and in what "ways" did she NOT sacrifice his backstory. 5. While she says that she doesn't think his story will make it into the books, she could be trying to throw people off. Would she do that? Who knows. Did Rowling say that specifically it would not be Dean? Personally, I do not think it is Dean, I am simply throwing more fuel on the fire and adding another possibility to the ever brewing pot.
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remiden - Oct 25, 2004 2:40 am (#1886 of 2923)
And About Trevor. Lurking is a very suspicious word. Rowling used Lurking to describe how Harry felt when he felt he had missed somethingimportant (relating to him remembering that Hagrid had gotten his dragon egg in Hogsmeade.)
" Harry nodded, but he couldn't shake off a lurking feeling that there was something he had forgotten to do. Something important" p329 American Version.
And before that, she used Lurking in reference to Voldemort. When Firenze says:
"I set myself against what is lurking in this forest, Bane, yes, with humans alongside me if I must" p321 American version.
Both references had involved Voldemort in some way, so I agree that there is more to revor than meets the eye.
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essie125 - Oct 25, 2004 3:47 am (#1887 of 2923)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
I had the weirdest dream a couple of days ago. I dreamed that the HBP was coming out august 28th 2005 and no later, because JKR was not allowed. I can honestly say I woke up quite confused. i sometimes dream things which I later encounter to be true. But this probably wasn't one of them. cos I knew when OoP was coming out a year before it actually came out. so I don't think it will. The major question for me right now is. what will come first. the book HBP or the movie which is in cinema's at the end of december. my vote is on the movie, but all my hope is focused on the book. And to not go off topic. There is definitely something about Trevor. JKR never gives so much attention to an animal or person when that person is not important to the story.
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Star Crossed - Oct 25, 2004 4:01 am (#1888 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I actually got to read a HP book on Friday (OP! Thank Merlin for friends bringing HP books to read!), and I noticed something that made me choke up. As we all know, Hedwig is an owl. And owls eat little animals. But in the beginning of OP, she brought back a frog. Is it possible Harry, the angry person he was, failed to notice that the frog was a toad, and that the toad belonged to Neville? Was Trevor mentioned again? I'm sure he was, but I still thought it was very interesting...
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Steve Newton - Oct 25, 2004 6:42 am (#1889 of 2923)
Librarian
Remiden, you did a good job supporting your argument with text. Way to go!
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PowerOn - Oct 25, 2004 12:48 pm (#1890 of 2923)
HP Freak (and no, not Hewlett Packard)
If all the headmaster's of Gryffindor have been in DD's chamber, why hasn't Godric's portrait ever spoken to Harry?
This is response to the theory that Godric is a ghost.
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haymoni - Oct 25, 2004 1:02 pm (#1891 of 2923)
Where does it state that Godric was Headmaster?
The 4 Founders started the school - perhaps they were the start of the Board of Governors - but I would guess that they got someone else to actually run the place once things got started.
But what do I know? I still want Hagrid to be the HBP!
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Gerald Costales - Oct 26, 2004 6:09 am (#1892 of 2923)
"But what do I know? I still want Hagrid to be the HBP!" haymoni
When I heard about the title for Book 6, my first thought was Hagrid, but it seems too obvious. Hagrid is still a sentimental canidate. (And I don't think it has been confirmed that he's not HBP.)
Then when other bits of info. came from JKR's website, etc., I would think Dean Thomas, Remus Lupin, etc.
Quirrel mention of receiving his turban from an African Prince tips the scales to Dean Thomas as the HBP. That is if Dean's father was the African Prince Quirrel mentioned. The African Prince story could be an excuse for Quirrel to wear that turban to hide Voldermort on the back of his head. (Ouch, talk about a headache.) I think the Twins said the turban was full of garlic to ward off Vampires.
There has been little speculation about Lupin. The idea I've posted before is if Lupin is a Prince (JKR has stated Lupin is a Half-Blood) then what better way to stop Lupin from claiming his title than to sic a werewolf on him.
When the excerpt from the HBP appeared on JKR's website, I thought that this certainly is a description of the HBP. Why I also believe that this Lion-like person is Godric Gryffindor, I can' really say.
But, my gut feeling is that Godric is the HBP. But, none of us can be really certain until Book 6 comes out.
I don't think JKR would come out of left field and have the HBP be someone anyone couldn't have guessed or piece together from clues and info. she's given. The only things certain is that Harry and Voldermort aren't the HBP. ;-) GC
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remiden - Oct 26, 2004 7:13 am (#1893 of 2923)
Not True GC, we can also rule out me.
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Molly Weasly Wannabe - Oct 26, 2004 12:45 pm (#1894 of 2923)
Not sure if this has been thrown up in the air or not, so here it goes. I was talking to my brother-in-law over the weekend about the new book and who he thought the HBP would be. He suggested Dumbeldore. That possibly Dumbeldore is a relative of Godrick Griffindor. Maybe that is one of the reasons LV is so scared of him. Seeing that LV is a relative of Slytherian, maybe he is afraid of Dumbeldore because he is related to Griffindor.
We also thought of the possiblity of Dobby being the HBP. I agree with some of the posts I have read that if a giant and wizard could have a child, then why not a wizard/witch and a house elf. If Dobby is wizard/house elf, then maybe that is why he (unlike the other house elves) is so desprate to be free. He seems to have a stronger will compared to the other house elves you read about.
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remiden - Oct 26, 2004 5:38 pm (#1895 of 2923)
But once again, Rowling has already established the qualifications to be a half blood. Just as she has already established the qualifications to be a half breed. Should Dobby be half human, half house elf, he would still be just a half breed.
Rowling has gone to GREAT lengths to make the mug blood, half blood, and pure blood a specific issue pertaining to your wizarding ancestory being either both parents were wizards, one wizard/one muggle, and both parents were muggles. She would not turn around and then state that cross breeding between species would also result in a half blood. That goes against several themes she has going in the books. When she says that Voldemort, Harry, Dean, and Lupin are all half bloods, do you wonder if they are part of another species? No, you know that she means they did not come from pure blood families, and they did not come from muggle families because she has stated this over and over in her books. She has definately ruled out Hagrid, Dobby, Firenze, Kreacher, the giant squid, all of the thestrals, Crookshanks, Trevor, and anything that is not completely human.
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Saud - Oct 26, 2004 11:58 pm (#1896 of 2923)
Edited by Oct 27, 2004 12:07 am
Everyone is coming up with something; My turn:
We have encountered elfs,
Met with giants,
Came across werewolfs,
Isn't it time for a vampire?
The HBP is a half-blood prince(!), who is royalty and was destined to be the successor of the throne, but he got bitten by a vampire making him an immortal with a cursed and evil soul.
All the above species are established characters that were created long time ago and JKR has taken these fictional characters and tied them together to produce a fictional world of its own.
Check Bram Stoker's Dracula for many interesting things about vampires. This main story has been adapted by many forms of multimedia and probably it has a role to play in the HP world. Maybe?
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Gerald Costales - Oct 27, 2004 6:16 am (#1897 of 2923)
"The HBP is a half-blood prince(!), who is royalty and was destined to be the successor of the throne, but he got bitten by a vampire making him an immortal with a cursed and evil soul." Saud
What a great idea!!! Do you think JKR has introduced this person or will he be a new person to the series? If the latter than the HBP could be a new student in Book 6.
A thought just poppped into my head, as Harry choose to be in Gryffindor maybe this new student will be confronted to make a similar choice. I would assume a Vampire HBP might be better suited for Slytherin, but this HBP may want to choose another house. Just because this student is currently "immortal with a cursed and evil soul" doesn't mean that before the Vampire bite he wasn't just a normal boy probably a mortal with an uncursed and good soul.
On the Vampire thread, the common belief that Vampires cannot be out in the sun has been brought up and debuked. We can't necessarily use our past beliefs of Vampires color any Vampire JKR might introduce into the series. So, I think JKR's Vampire will be more human and less myth, just as Lupin's Werewolf is more human and less myth. I think that JKR's Vampire will be out in the sun and have a reflection in mirrors, etc.
Also, Dumbledore allowed Lupin to enter Hogwarts after being bitten by a Werewolf. If a new student was bitten by a Vampire then Dumbledore would certainly allow this student into Hogwarts as well. ;-) GC
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Her-melanie - Oct 27, 2004 8:15 am (#1898 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Since the theory that Snape is a Vampire is a popular one, this is yet another point towards my favorite HPB candidate - Snape! It is high time we found out more about him, and I still think Harry is going to end up adopted by him, or at least living with him (because of a sarcastic thought that Harry has in either GoF or OotP, I forget which). JKR herself said that she wouldn't want to be Harry because she knows what he will have to endure. What could be worse for him than living with Snape!?
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Star Crossed - Oct 27, 2004 12:07 pm (#1899 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Her-Melanie,
JKR disproved the rumour that Snape is a vampire.
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total hatred - Oct 27, 2004 1:54 pm (#1900 of 2923)
I think the reason why Lupin implied Snape is a vampire is the fact that he looks like one. Some sort of a personal joke.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
No - it was something more than that. Something like "keep your eye on Trevor".
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Julia. - Oct 13, 2004 5:22 pm (#1852 of 2923)
74% obsessed! Uconn Jew Crew says: is it August yet?
Is this what you're looking for Haymoni?
What happened to Neville's Toad?
Trevor? He's still lurking. (Comic Relief March 2001)
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haymoni - Oct 14, 2004 4:10 am (#1853 of 2923)
No - that's not it. I think it was from something earlier than that.
Oh, who knows? It could have been something someone said here. I know it was way before Round Pink Spider posted her theories, so I didn't get it from there.
I don't read any fanfiction just for this reason. I have enough trouble trying to remember canon!
Goes off to lurk with Trevor...
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 14, 2004 10:39 am (#1854 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Be careful haymoni - lurking could get you in trouble. Neville might file charges on you for stalking him. Loved your post.
Mikie
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KingWeasley - Oct 15, 2004 4:17 pm (#1855 of 2923)
Neville could not even hold on to his remembrall for more than a year. How could he manage to hold on to Trever for so long unless Trever, like Scabbers, had a reason to want to sick around. Hmmm...
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Albus-Dumbledore - Oct 16, 2004 3:43 am (#1856 of 2923)
You shall not harm Harry Potter
I don't think that Trevor will turn out to be another Scabbers. Remember Neville has been losing Trevor;ever since he came to Hogwarts.Trevor has been found luking in toilets,in hogwarts train and at many other places.He hasn't exactly been sticking with Neville all this time.
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Phoenix song - Oct 16, 2004 8:07 am (#1857 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Toads aren't usually described as "lurking", though. Doesn't this (at least) seem to be a clue that there is more to Trevor than just an "unfashionable" toad? It's also curious how he's found in areas that are later important to the outcome of the book.
I hope that JKR clears up the Trevor questions and the Mimbulus mystery (among others) in book 6.
Barbie
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Ozymandias - Oct 16, 2004 7:37 pm (#1858 of 2923)
Nothing beside remains...
Barbie, do you have examples of Trevor being found in areas that later turn out to be important? I've never noticed that, but it sounds very interesting.
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Eliza - Oct 16, 2004 9:07 pm (#1859 of 2923)
I was just thinking... What about Dobby? I mean he is a very odd house elf. Maybe he is not pure. That would make him eligible for HBP status and would explain why he was able to leave the Malfoy's House without permission. And his less elfish goals
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Star Crossed - Oct 17, 2004 5:27 am (#1860 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ozy, the only thing I can think of is when we found Trevor in the GCR when HRH thought everyone went to sleep so they could sneak out to save the SS/PS.
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Steve Newton - Oct 17, 2004 5:49 am (#1861 of 2923)
Librarian
I think that Trevor was found near the chickens in COS. (This may be important if you check out how basilisks are born.)
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legolas - Oct 17, 2004 6:44 am (#1862 of 2923)
Wasnt trevor found once in the toilets?
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Urvi Bhimani - Oct 17, 2004 9:52 am (#1863 of 2923)
Has anyone mentioned the possibility of Godric Gryffindor being the half-blood prince? It makes sense, because he was in the Chamber of Secrets and Rowling said that it is something that Harry finds out in Chamber that leads him to other things in book six. I personally don't like the theory of Harry being the Heir of Gryffindor, but it is highly possible, since he did pull out Gryffindor's sword out of the Sorting Hat. Maybe this is why it is prophesized that only Harry can kill Voldemort, or in vice versa, because they are the Heirs of Slytherin and Gryffindor.
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Star Crossed - Oct 17, 2004 11:27 am (#1864 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Urvi, the possibility of GG being the HBP is a very popular one. In fact, I'm one of the believers. I also believe that Harry is not the heir of Gryffindor. So, you're not alone.
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Phoenix song - Oct 18, 2004 10:24 am (#1865 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Ozymandias: "Barbie, do you have examples of Trevor being found in areas that later turn out to be important? I've never noticed that, but it sounds very interesting."
Right off I would have to agree with Steve that he was found around the chickens in CoS. As a basilisk is hatched by a toad sitting on a chicken egg (or something like that) then that would be important. Right now my brain is malfunctioning and I can't find the passage, but will try again later.
He was also found in a corner of the toilets at the end of PS/SS. We later found out that the tunnel to the Chamber of Secrets began in a bathroom. It doesn't state that he was found in Myrtle's bathroom, but it doesn't not state it, either. (Terrible use of negatives, I apologize to all English lovers out there, but was trying to be clear.) My point is that if the bathroom wasn't a clue then Trevor would have been found lurking in the corner of the boys' bathroom, or the girls' bathroom...whatever. I'd also like to point out that it could have been a girl would found Trevor. The text doesn't actually state either way.
I've found that sometimes what Jo doesn't say can be a larger clue than what she does say when giving clues. First off, she doesn't seem to just put in random bits of information that have no meaning in the story whatsoever. It seems as if every passage is helping the story to move forward. So I don't think that Trevor could possibly be unimportant (just as all of the other named animals have been important.) I also think that her descriptions of Trevor are telling. Frogs don't usually "lurk", they don't usually scamper all over the place (Trevor really moves about the castle), and Trevor is constantly trying to evade Neville. He just seems too suspicious to me.
Also, we know that Uncle Algie gave Trevor to Neville. I think that we can agree that any guy that tries to drown his young nephew or drops him out of an upper story window can't be a really great guy. Plus, his name is Algie, which sounds like but is spelled differently than ALGAE. Algae is, of course, basically pond scum. I've never heard the term "pond scum" used to refer to someone that is trustworthy and honorable. So, I don't trust Uncle Algie OR his gifts to Trevor.
I think that there are still many secrets left to discover about Neville. I hope that she clears up a lot of questions about him in the Half blood Prince. (I'd hate to go on wondering until the completion of the seventh book!)
In all fairness to Trevor, I will admit that I know that there are many people who believe that Trevor is the half-blood prince. The fairy tale where there is a prince trapped in the body of a toad by an evil enchantment would fit in well here. I don't personally buy it, but it is interesting regardless.
Barbie
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haymoni - Oct 18, 2004 12:20 pm (#1866 of 2923)
Could Trevor be one of those Frog things in the POA movie?
I don't have "Fantastic Beasts", but didn't someone find a frog-like animal that did something when danger approached?
Maybe Trevor is one of these creatures.
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Phoenix song - Oct 18, 2004 12:25 pm (#1867 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
haymoni: "I don't have "Fantastic Beasts", but didn't someone find a frog-like animal that did something when danger approached?"
That's a good question. Unfortunately, my kids have scurried off with my copy of Fantastic Beasts and I can't look it up either. I'll try to find another source.
Barbie
EDIT: I checked out the listing of beasts on the Lex. The animal that you were thinking about was called a Clabbert. I'm afraid that it couldn't be what Trevor is, (not full blooded anyway) because it's a mixture of monkey and frog. Good idea, though.
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haymoni - Oct 18, 2004 1:09 pm (#1868 of 2923)
A monkey and a frog??? - I'm sorry but that is just WRONG!!
Back to the topic...I really wish we could get some confirmation on Hagrid not being the HBP. I was just so sure!
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 18, 2004 2:49 pm (#1869 of 2923)
Haymoni, they are called Clabberts. To avoid getting off topic let's go to the Magizoology thread. I had been in the Hagrid camp for a while, but there was an announcement on Mugglenet that JKR had told someone that Hagrid was not the HBP at the Edinburgh conference during the book signings. It was uncomfirmed but the best we've got.
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VeronikaG - Oct 22, 2004 3:03 am (#1870 of 2923)
Algie is probably short for Algernon. If I remember correctly, Algernon is the main character in Oscar Wilde's "The importance of being Earnest". He's kind of a dodge fella, so maybe the name was inspired from there. I don't remeber the whole story, but if any of you Trevor-supporters do, please try and see if you can fit Trevor into a plot with an "Ernest-inspired" uncle.
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Miriam Huber - Oct 22, 2004 3:43 am (#1871 of 2923)
Perhaps I am only repeating what someone said a hundred posts before - sorry, the thread is too long now for me to read it completely.
I think that the word "prince" is almost more important than the word "half-blood" (for guessing, not necessarily for the story, of course), because "prince" means (imho):
either: it is a person of the past because there is no wizard monarchy nowadays
or: it is a someone´s nickname. (or both!)
I think most living people (or dead since some years only) we already know, like James Potter, Hagrid (who, by the way, as some have already pointed out, is half-breed, not half-blood - JKs terminology is quite clear here), Dean ... are ruled out, therefore.
It might be Godric Gryffindor, although up until now we´ve never heard of him being a prince. (I don´t think he will, it is too easy a guess, Jo wouldn´t do that. I don´t think it is guessable who the HBP is, at least to me. That is why I don´t have a suggestion to make - sorry. But perhaps someone really clever on this forum will work it out?)
But, concerning GG, I would like to add that I don´t think Harry is a heir of him, because Rowling stresses again and again that what really counts are CHOICES, not BLOOD RELATIONS (that concerns some other speculations about possible relatives of Harry, too) - very, very clearly, for example, when, at the end of CS, Harry and Dumbledore talk about the Sorting Hat and a certain sword of a certain Hogwarts founder...
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Joelle - Oct 22, 2004 1:39 pm (#1872 of 2923)
Algie could also refer to the book flowers for Algernon. in which a mentally retarded man and mouse get smarter, then because of the procedure end up dieing. Sad. I dont know. Just a thought
HBP i think will be a new person.
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shadowfax - Oct 23, 2004 9:10 pm (#1873 of 2923)
I've read somewhere that the HBP is someone we've meet before in CoS.
But for some reason I believe that we have not meet this character yet. Even though she has given us clues in OoTP, I think this person has been hidden in the back ground and will be introduced to us in the next book.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Oct 23, 2004 10:02 pm (#1874 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"I've read somewhere that the HBP is someone we've meet before in CoS."
I'd love the link please, or reference?
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shadowfax - Oct 24, 2004 10:12 am (#1875 of 2923)
Hi Twinkling Blue Eyes , fancy meeting you again ...LOL . I think I
read the HBP thing on (The Scotman.com)In the JKR and HP latest news.
You can also find it under ( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] )since I get
it sent to my e-mail directly from them. Also I think it might have been mentioned on another HP site.
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remiden - Oct 24, 2004 12:40 pm (#1876 of 2923)
Actually, what you are talking about is that JK said that the HBP storyline was once in CoS, but was removed because she felt it made more sense in a later book. She does not say that the HBP is in fact mentioned in CoS, nor does she say that she wrote him out of the book entirely. She only said that she removed the storyline which still leaves it completely WIDE open as to whether it is a new character or an old one.
On another note, JK states on her website that she chose Neville's history over Deans because it is more inportant to the overall plot. So here is my question about Dean. JK has talked about different character's backgrounds without hesitation, and reading what Dean's background would be, she could have added it to the story in just a paragraph and later allowed him or Harry to find out about Dean's past. She could have easily used Harry's experience with Dumbledore's pensive to show one of the DEs kill Dean's Father or simply had Malfoy make a snide comment toward dean. There would have been ton's of ways to add the history of a character that Rowling really likes and not affect the overall storyline with it. SO, finally, my question. What is so important about Dean's background that it would have overshadowed Neville's? It would not simply be that the DEs cursed both of their parents, for the DEs cursed alot of people apparently, so it would have to be something much more important. I am not saying that Dean is the HBP, only that there was or is something in his background that Rowling has felt the need to hide from us up until this point.
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remiden - Oct 24, 2004 12:43 pm (#1877 of 2923)
I also feel that as Hagrid has been ruled out because of Rowling's established criteria for being a half blood or a half breed, you also have to rule out Dobby along the same grounds.
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The Weaslys - Oct 24, 2004 12:53 pm (#1878 of 2923)
Hi, I'm new to this but want to give it a try in order to find out some HBP information. We (my kids and I) go to the JKR site and know that at one time she showed an excerpt from her book behind the door, but can't find out where we could read it now since we missed seeing in on her site. Does anyone know where we could read it for ourselves? Can't wait until October 31 which is when we think she will reveal something new behind the door. Thanks for your help.
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Good Evans - Oct 24, 2004 12:59 pm (#1879 of 2923)
Practically perfect in every way
Hi The Weaslys, if you go to the JKR website thread on the forum you will find the message posted (you will have to go back some way but it is there). You cant read it on JKR's website now as it was behind the door and the door is closed again (nor is it liekly to be there when the door reopens as the half blood prince scrap of paper is also gone (the previous surprise)). This type of query, for future reference would be better on the JKR website thread, as it will be picked up more quickly there. Hope that helps
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The Weaslys - Oct 24, 2004 1:12 pm (#1880 of 2923)
Thank You so much for your reply, I'll try there.
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Neville Longbottom - Oct 24, 2004 2:06 pm (#1881 of 2923)
On another note, JK states on her website that she chose Neville's history over Deans because it is more inportant to the overall plot. So here is my question about Dean. JK has talked about different character's backgrounds without hesitation, and reading what Dean's background would be, she could have added it to the story in just a paragraph and later allowed him or Harry to find out about Dean's past.
I disagree. I think it was pretty complicated stuff, with his father disappearing and then being a supposed Death Eater, and then not a Death Eater but someone who refused to join them. The problem is that the characters have to find out all of this. It's not like Sirius' explanation concerning Regulus' death, because there's nobody on the good side (not even Dean's mother), who knows the whole truth. Therefore Dean someone had to find it out, maybe even learning it through the Death Eaters who killed his father (they could have mocked Dean like Bellatrix mocked Neville). And then JKR has to include Dean's reaction to finding out the truth. It wouldn't make any sense to just mention this stuff without seeing how it affects Dean. Therefore I think it would have been impossible to explain Dean's history in just one paragraph, it's probably stuff for several books.
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 24, 2004 6:47 pm (#1882 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
It has been stated in various forums that in HBP Harry is going to become more accomplished and polished in his wizarding powers. His skills will need to be honed and developed in order for him to eventually take on Voldemort for their final battle.
I am going to be very interested if in the process of developing his powers he will discover a reduction in the pain he experiences from his scar. For example as he becomes accomplished at Occlumency will he find that he can not only block Voldemort from his thoughts but also block the pain he feels that accompanies Voldemorts feelings?
Mikie
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Ann - Oct 24, 2004 7:50 pm (#1883 of 2923)
I agree that Dean's story is no small, incidental plot. People have suggested that he might be the half-blood prince (possibly in connection with the African prince Quirrell mentions), but others (including me) have argued that if JKR was going to use his backstory in Book 6 (which she'd have to if Dean were the half-blood prince), she wouldn't have said so unambiguously that she'd sacrificed Dean's voyage of self-discovery and thought she would probably never use it now.
But I just was reminded on another thread that at the end of OotP, Ginny said that she's been dating Dean, which, if she continues to date him into Book 6, will inevitably increase his role in the story and would be a perfect set-up to the "self-discovery." So I am in a quandary. Maybe he is the HBP after all??? Would she do that to us?
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Zirtaheb - Oct 25, 2004 1:31 am (#1884 of 2923)
I read in a spanish forum that the first chapter of book 6 can be related with the momentoin which Voldemort look himself in Erised mirror.
It has sense because Rowling thought to put this chapter in all the rest of the books, so it has to be a general idea.
What do you think about?
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remiden - Oct 25, 2004 1:59 am (#1885 of 2923)
In the one paragraph, I simply meant that she could introduce you to him not having a father, which I am unsure if she did or not. She has added background on different characters that hace no point to the plot, so Dean's would not have been a big deal. Certainly not big enough to warrant specific mention on her website.
Here is the exact mention.
"Dean Thomas's background (Chamber of Secrets) Anybody who has read both the American and British versions of 'Philosopher's Stone' will notice that Dean Thomas's appearance is not mentioned in the British book, whereas in the American one there is a line describing him (in the chapter 'The Sorting Hat').
This was an editorial cut in the British version; my editor thought that chapter was too long and pruned everything that he thought was surplus to requirements. When it came to the casting on the film version of 'Philosopher's Stone', however, I told the director, Chris, that Dean was a black Londoner. In fact, I think Chris was slightly taken aback by the amount of information I had on this peripheral character. I had a lot of background on Dean, though I had never found the right place to use it. His story was included in an early draft of 'Chamber of Secrets' but then cut by me, because it felt like an unnecessary digression. Now I don't think his history will ever make it into the books.
Dean is from what he always thought was a pure Muggle background. He has been raised by his mother and his stepfather; his father walked out on the family when Dean was very young. He has a very happy home life, with a number of half-brothers and sisters.
Naturally when the letter came from Hogwarts Dean's mother wondered whether his father might have been a wizard, but nobody has ever discovered the truth: that Dean's father, who had never told his wife what he was because he wanted to protect her, got himself killed by Death Eaters when he refused to join them. The projected story had Dean discovering all this during his school career. I suppose in some ways I sacrificed Dean's voyage of discovery for Neville's, which is more important to the central plot."
Here's what would support Dean's nomination as the HBP.
1. He is a Half-Blood. 2. JK edited out the HBP story line out of CoS because it didn't really fit in. JK edited out Dean Thomas's storyline from CoS because she felt it didn't really fit in. 3. Rowling kept a surprising amount of info on a background character, and was specific that the info be kept in the movie. 4. This line "I suppose in some ways I sacrificed Dean's voyage of discovery for Neville's, which is more important to the central plot." is vague as to whether or not Dean's back story has in fact been cut from the series or not. In what "ways" did she sacrifice his back story, and in what "ways" did she NOT sacrifice his backstory. 5. While she says that she doesn't think his story will make it into the books, she could be trying to throw people off. Would she do that? Who knows. Did Rowling say that specifically it would not be Dean? Personally, I do not think it is Dean, I am simply throwing more fuel on the fire and adding another possibility to the ever brewing pot.
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remiden - Oct 25, 2004 2:40 am (#1886 of 2923)
And About Trevor. Lurking is a very suspicious word. Rowling used Lurking to describe how Harry felt when he felt he had missed somethingimportant (relating to him remembering that Hagrid had gotten his dragon egg in Hogsmeade.)
" Harry nodded, but he couldn't shake off a lurking feeling that there was something he had forgotten to do. Something important" p329 American Version.
And before that, she used Lurking in reference to Voldemort. When Firenze says:
"I set myself against what is lurking in this forest, Bane, yes, with humans alongside me if I must" p321 American version.
Both references had involved Voldemort in some way, so I agree that there is more to revor than meets the eye.
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essie125 - Oct 25, 2004 3:47 am (#1887 of 2923)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
I had the weirdest dream a couple of days ago. I dreamed that the HBP was coming out august 28th 2005 and no later, because JKR was not allowed. I can honestly say I woke up quite confused. i sometimes dream things which I later encounter to be true. But this probably wasn't one of them. cos I knew when OoP was coming out a year before it actually came out. so I don't think it will. The major question for me right now is. what will come first. the book HBP or the movie which is in cinema's at the end of december. my vote is on the movie, but all my hope is focused on the book. And to not go off topic. There is definitely something about Trevor. JKR never gives so much attention to an animal or person when that person is not important to the story.
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Star Crossed - Oct 25, 2004 4:01 am (#1888 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I actually got to read a HP book on Friday (OP! Thank Merlin for friends bringing HP books to read!), and I noticed something that made me choke up. As we all know, Hedwig is an owl. And owls eat little animals. But in the beginning of OP, she brought back a frog. Is it possible Harry, the angry person he was, failed to notice that the frog was a toad, and that the toad belonged to Neville? Was Trevor mentioned again? I'm sure he was, but I still thought it was very interesting...
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Steve Newton - Oct 25, 2004 6:42 am (#1889 of 2923)
Librarian
Remiden, you did a good job supporting your argument with text. Way to go!
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PowerOn - Oct 25, 2004 12:48 pm (#1890 of 2923)
HP Freak (and no, not Hewlett Packard)
If all the headmaster's of Gryffindor have been in DD's chamber, why hasn't Godric's portrait ever spoken to Harry?
This is response to the theory that Godric is a ghost.
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haymoni - Oct 25, 2004 1:02 pm (#1891 of 2923)
Where does it state that Godric was Headmaster?
The 4 Founders started the school - perhaps they were the start of the Board of Governors - but I would guess that they got someone else to actually run the place once things got started.
But what do I know? I still want Hagrid to be the HBP!
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Gerald Costales - Oct 26, 2004 6:09 am (#1892 of 2923)
"But what do I know? I still want Hagrid to be the HBP!" haymoni
When I heard about the title for Book 6, my first thought was Hagrid, but it seems too obvious. Hagrid is still a sentimental canidate. (And I don't think it has been confirmed that he's not HBP.)
Then when other bits of info. came from JKR's website, etc., I would think Dean Thomas, Remus Lupin, etc.
Quirrel mention of receiving his turban from an African Prince tips the scales to Dean Thomas as the HBP. That is if Dean's father was the African Prince Quirrel mentioned. The African Prince story could be an excuse for Quirrel to wear that turban to hide Voldermort on the back of his head. (Ouch, talk about a headache.) I think the Twins said the turban was full of garlic to ward off Vampires.
There has been little speculation about Lupin. The idea I've posted before is if Lupin is a Prince (JKR has stated Lupin is a Half-Blood) then what better way to stop Lupin from claiming his title than to sic a werewolf on him.
When the excerpt from the HBP appeared on JKR's website, I thought that this certainly is a description of the HBP. Why I also believe that this Lion-like person is Godric Gryffindor, I can' really say.
But, my gut feeling is that Godric is the HBP. But, none of us can be really certain until Book 6 comes out.
I don't think JKR would come out of left field and have the HBP be someone anyone couldn't have guessed or piece together from clues and info. she's given. The only things certain is that Harry and Voldermort aren't the HBP. ;-) GC
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remiden - Oct 26, 2004 7:13 am (#1893 of 2923)
Not True GC, we can also rule out me.
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Molly Weasly Wannabe - Oct 26, 2004 12:45 pm (#1894 of 2923)
Not sure if this has been thrown up in the air or not, so here it goes. I was talking to my brother-in-law over the weekend about the new book and who he thought the HBP would be. He suggested Dumbeldore. That possibly Dumbeldore is a relative of Godrick Griffindor. Maybe that is one of the reasons LV is so scared of him. Seeing that LV is a relative of Slytherian, maybe he is afraid of Dumbeldore because he is related to Griffindor.
We also thought of the possiblity of Dobby being the HBP. I agree with some of the posts I have read that if a giant and wizard could have a child, then why not a wizard/witch and a house elf. If Dobby is wizard/house elf, then maybe that is why he (unlike the other house elves) is so desprate to be free. He seems to have a stronger will compared to the other house elves you read about.
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remiden - Oct 26, 2004 5:38 pm (#1895 of 2923)
But once again, Rowling has already established the qualifications to be a half blood. Just as she has already established the qualifications to be a half breed. Should Dobby be half human, half house elf, he would still be just a half breed.
Rowling has gone to GREAT lengths to make the mug blood, half blood, and pure blood a specific issue pertaining to your wizarding ancestory being either both parents were wizards, one wizard/one muggle, and both parents were muggles. She would not turn around and then state that cross breeding between species would also result in a half blood. That goes against several themes she has going in the books. When she says that Voldemort, Harry, Dean, and Lupin are all half bloods, do you wonder if they are part of another species? No, you know that she means they did not come from pure blood families, and they did not come from muggle families because she has stated this over and over in her books. She has definately ruled out Hagrid, Dobby, Firenze, Kreacher, the giant squid, all of the thestrals, Crookshanks, Trevor, and anything that is not completely human.
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Saud - Oct 26, 2004 11:58 pm (#1896 of 2923)
Edited by Oct 27, 2004 12:07 am
Everyone is coming up with something; My turn:
We have encountered elfs,
Met with giants,
Came across werewolfs,
Isn't it time for a vampire?
The HBP is a half-blood prince(!), who is royalty and was destined to be the successor of the throne, but he got bitten by a vampire making him an immortal with a cursed and evil soul.
All the above species are established characters that were created long time ago and JKR has taken these fictional characters and tied them together to produce a fictional world of its own.
Check Bram Stoker's Dracula for many interesting things about vampires. This main story has been adapted by many forms of multimedia and probably it has a role to play in the HP world. Maybe?
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Gerald Costales - Oct 27, 2004 6:16 am (#1897 of 2923)
"The HBP is a half-blood prince(!), who is royalty and was destined to be the successor of the throne, but he got bitten by a vampire making him an immortal with a cursed and evil soul." Saud
What a great idea!!! Do you think JKR has introduced this person or will he be a new person to the series? If the latter than the HBP could be a new student in Book 6.
A thought just poppped into my head, as Harry choose to be in Gryffindor maybe this new student will be confronted to make a similar choice. I would assume a Vampire HBP might be better suited for Slytherin, but this HBP may want to choose another house. Just because this student is currently "immortal with a cursed and evil soul" doesn't mean that before the Vampire bite he wasn't just a normal boy probably a mortal with an uncursed and good soul.
On the Vampire thread, the common belief that Vampires cannot be out in the sun has been brought up and debuked. We can't necessarily use our past beliefs of Vampires color any Vampire JKR might introduce into the series. So, I think JKR's Vampire will be more human and less myth, just as Lupin's Werewolf is more human and less myth. I think that JKR's Vampire will be out in the sun and have a reflection in mirrors, etc.
Also, Dumbledore allowed Lupin to enter Hogwarts after being bitten by a Werewolf. If a new student was bitten by a Vampire then Dumbledore would certainly allow this student into Hogwarts as well. ;-) GC
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Her-melanie - Oct 27, 2004 8:15 am (#1898 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Since the theory that Snape is a Vampire is a popular one, this is yet another point towards my favorite HPB candidate - Snape! It is high time we found out more about him, and I still think Harry is going to end up adopted by him, or at least living with him (because of a sarcastic thought that Harry has in either GoF or OotP, I forget which). JKR herself said that she wouldn't want to be Harry because she knows what he will have to endure. What could be worse for him than living with Snape!?
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Star Crossed - Oct 27, 2004 12:07 pm (#1899 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Her-Melanie,
JKR disproved the rumour that Snape is a vampire.
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total hatred - Oct 27, 2004 1:54 pm (#1900 of 2923)
I think the reason why Lupin implied Snape is a vampire is the fact that he looks like one. Some sort of a personal joke.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 1901 to 1950)
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Eliza - Oct 27, 2004 6:41 pm (#1901 of 2923)
Harry living with Snape!!! I think that could be worse then the Dursleys. At least they are stupid.
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Her-melanie - Oct 28, 2004 10:11 am (#1902 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
When did JKR disprove the vampire theory? I think I must've missed that.
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conor maloney - Oct 28, 2004 12:17 pm (#1903 of 2923)
ok here's my snape theory he will become the new DADA teacher ( since the role is so hard to fill) and he will end up saving harry from voldy . then the new character will be the potions teacher ( since the role is easier to fill).
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Oct 28, 2004 1:27 pm (#1904 of 2923)
Her-melanie, Jo said on her website that, to her knowledge, Snape has no connection with vampires (this is paraphrased, of course). Some say that this answer is too ambiguous to totally refute the theory, though.
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James Greenfield - Oct 29, 2004 12:59 am (#1905 of 2923)
Conor Maloney, I agree. If Snape becomes the new DADA teacher, then even if he demands Outstanding marks on a student's OWLs, he'd have to let Harry in the class, because he did so well on the DADA OWL. And maybe, the new Potions teacher will let Harry take sixth-year Potions, even if he didn't do so well on that OWL.
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Witta Woman - Oct 29, 2004 1:29 am (#1906 of 2923)
ok wait! I'm confused. We haven't yet heard the result of the OWLs. Have we?
Plus, I thought Harry was a Pure Blood. Both Lilly and James were witch/wizard therefore Harry's a pure blood.Or because Lilly came from muggles, therefore a mudblood, and James was a pure blood Hary is a three-fourths blood.
I know the JKR said that the HBP is niether Harry nor Voldemort, so who could it be? (Now hearing "Who are You" playing in my head)
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James Greenfield - Oct 29, 2004 1:50 am (#1907 of 2923)
Witta Woman -- No, we don't have the results from anyone's OWLs yet. That will be in Book 6. BUT, we do know that Harry thought he did extremely well on the DADA OWL, and thought he did not do much more than average on Potions OWL.
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Star Crossed - Oct 29, 2004 3:48 am (#1908 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And JKR said that Harry is a halfblood because the people who actually care about bloodlines go back for generations.
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riddikulus - Oct 31, 2004 9:06 am (#1909 of 2923)
I'm becomming more and more convinced it's Draco. In Chamber, Hagrid said "No wizard alive today is pure blood, they're all half blood or less" I'm gonna go with the theory, the little ferret isn't what he thinks he is... when he gets taken down another peg or two, perhaps he'll be more inclined to "detour" into the DA and befriend Harry. He wasn't even on my list, initially, but JKR might just pull something like this.
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Oct 31, 2004 2:10 pm (#1910 of 2923)
Good theory Riddikulus,
I was thinking about DM taking a trip to visit his poor old dad before his return to Hogwarts, as his detour. HBP though? I'm not convinced it is DM, but i do like the idea of him comming to join the DA, maybe as a spy though!
DoxyB
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Saud - Oct 31, 2004 7:08 pm (#1911 of 2923)
Who then would be HRH's arch-rival at Hogwarts?
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 31, 2004 7:31 pm (#1912 of 2923)
Ridikkulus, the same thought came into my mind when I read JKR's new clue. If Narcissa was a muggle-born she might have made a point of distancing herself from her family and lying about her blood. That would be pretty devastating for poor Draco if he found out.
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 31, 2004 7:35 pm (#1913 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Narcissa is a Black and Bella's sister. I don't believe Draco will be the HBP. But I have no idea what his detour is going to entail.
Mikie
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remiden - Oct 31, 2004 7:38 pm (#1914 of 2923)
Rowling has already stated that Harry and Draco will always hate each other.
If Draco does indeed come over to the good side, this is what I envision as the most likely scenario. Snape gets caught by DEs and is tortured/killed/whatever, and Malfoy watches this happen. Malfoy in all the rest of the books has looked up to Snape, and this pushes him in the right direction. Possibly Draco sees his friends Crabb and Goyle in on the torturing and starts to resent them for it. I don't think it will happen at all, but I think if it it does, snape will play a large roll in it. Maybe Snape simply recruits him.
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The Artful Dodger - Nov 1, 2004 1:08 am (#1915 of 2923)
Riddikulus, the quote you are referring to is from Ron (Hagrid only says that in the movie, but not in the book). Ron also says something like "if we hadn't married half-bloods, we would have died out." (don't have the books with me for the exact quote). That might be a clue that Ron is a half-blood.
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 7:55 am (#1916 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Ok, I haven't posted in a while, and I've been madly attempting to catch up on reading the posts, but I have 500 left to read, so forgive me if this has already been suggested...
The HBP is someone or something that Fudge introduces, as a way of "saving face" in front of the wizarding world.
He produces a "hero"; or something that helps in the fight against Voldemort, but backfires in some way.
Fudge is a proud man above all and despite the fact that he now has to admit that Voldy is around and causing problems it doesn't seem like he'd be the kind to go asking DD for help; rather he would go about setting an elaborate counter attack of sorts.
One that promotes hope and confidence in the wizard world as well as a way to re-validate old traditions and the purpose of the ministry of magic.
Does that make sense? Its kinda late
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 7:59 am (#1917 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Also, I know this might be a big ask, but could someone list (or summarize) exactly what Jo has said in regards to the book HPB? Thanks.
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Phoenix song - Nov 1, 2004 8:04 am (#1918 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Wannabemuggle: I'd suggest that if you want a summary to all that JKR has said regarding HBP that you go to the leaky cauldron's web site. They have a compilation of all of the information that has been collected regarding the book called "All that there is to know about the Half-blood Prince if you're not JK Rowling." Pretty much everything that we've heard from her is listed there. The rest is just conjecture, theory and conclusion. Try there first if you want all of the interview "canon" from her.
Hope that this has been a help!
Barbie
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 1, 2004 8:04 am (#1919 of 2923)
I think most of what has been said about HBP is on her web site.
Have you been on to JK's site? The door is open, which reveals more information that you are looking for.
DoxyB
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 8:16 am (#1920 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Doxy- Haha, yeah, ive been to her website! But in honesty i have no idea how to get to the door?! (embarressment)
Thanks Barbie! I shall run there now
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 8:19 am (#1921 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Wait, ok, I'm at the door, but i can't get it to open? What do i have to do?
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Phoenix song - Nov 1, 2004 8:21 am (#1922 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Wait patiently for a few minutes until Peeves comes along and knocks over the vase. Keys will fly out of the vase. Then click and drag the keys one by one to the key lock until you find the one that fits. The door will open after you've found the right one. Then approach the desk, click and drag open the desk door, and take out the magnifying glass. Happy hunting!
Barbie
Doxy B: We keep posting at the same time!! Let me send over a big wave since we're so close! HELLO!
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 1, 2004 8:21 am (#1923 of 2923)
Wait for peeves to come.
Then have some fun trying to find a key that fits the lock!
DoxyB
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 8:28 am (#1924 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Haha, ok, thanks to both of you!!!
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 1, 2004 8:33 am (#1925 of 2923)
I'm laughing too, both times i went to post and Barbie you were there too.
I have just reread the last few and saw your message!
Hello to you too, how nice to be on the same wave length with someone today* Hope you are well.
Best wishes
DoxyB
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riddikulus - Nov 1, 2004 9:56 am (#1926 of 2923)
Edited by Nov 1, 2004 8:58 am
Dodger, you're right... but, I like to take references from the movies, because if something's in the movie, I'd like to think it's going to be relevant at some point down the line. Nonetheless, it was said... so, given that, I think we're going to come to find out that someone isn't what they seem to be. Sure, it very well could be one of the Weasleys, or Draco (as he's given his own chapter "Dracos Detour"). My original thought was Hagrid, but like I said above, i'm becoming more and more inclined to think Draco will play a bigger role in this... but if it is one of the Weasleys, Ron perhaps, then maybe he befriends Draco at some point. I just can't buy it being one of them though, because there are too many of them... how do you justify Ron being the prince and none of the others? Hagrid, before Grawp came into the picture, was alone... Draco is an only child.
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The Artful Dodger - Nov 1, 2004 3:39 pm (#1927 of 2923)
I just think Ron might be half-blood because he says "if we hadn't married muggles we would have died out". We can refer to pure-bloods in general, or to the Weasley family only (which is the more interesting possiblity).
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Classicsquid592 - Nov 1, 2004 5:36 pm (#1928 of 2923)
In a chat in 1999 JKR said that we would definitely see Aragog in the future. Knowing of the connection between book 2 and 6 and this the following thought popped into my head: what if the stranger who sold Aragog to Hagrid was the Half-blood Prince? Any thoughts?
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hopping hessian - Nov 1, 2004 6:14 pm (#1929 of 2923)
"Extrodinary claims require extrordinary proof" -Bill Nye
Artful Doger: If I recall correctly, accrding to CoS, the Weasleys are all pure-bloods. I believe he meant "we" in the general sense.
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Urvi Bhimani - Nov 1, 2004 6:17 pm (#1930 of 2923)
I don't think Draco is the HBP. In OOTP, Rowling clearly stated that DM is pureblood on the family tree thing. And as for him turning over to the good side, as Ron would say "Poisoned toadstools don't change their spots"
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riddikulus - Nov 1, 2004 10:00 pm (#1931 of 2923)
Classicsquid, it's funny you said that, I've mentioned that before and wrote this, just now on another thread: I just can't help though, thinking that Aragog wasn't given to Hagrid as an accident... he really did come in handy and whomever provided him to Hagrid knew something of the future, perhaps.
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VeronikaG - Nov 2, 2004 3:23 am (#1932 of 2923)
Well, Draco believes that he's a pure blood. But we know nothing for sure. The readers only know what Harry knows, and as far as Harry's concerned, Draco's a pure blood. He could discover that he's a half blood.
If you go back a few posts, I have explained why Draco is my best guess for the HBP. As this person is the main topic of book 6, and will interact directly with Harry, I'd say it has to be somebody who's important to the plot. We've known Draco since the beginning, and I have a feeling he's not going to just remain an annoying little bug the way he has been until now. He was an important side character in the first two books, where the rules of the story were set. In later books he's been a bit in the background, but I think it's time for him to come out again. Jo wouldn't let his dad being put in prison have no effect on him. At the end of OotP Draco was furious with Harry, and honestly there is no way he can't at least try to take revenge on him. The rivalry between these two young but powerful wizards (I believe Draco has strong magic powers, even if he doesn't do best in theoretical subjects) will probably be a big part of the book. As the HBP has to be a very important character it could very well be Draco in this setting.
Either that, or it's Trevor!
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Madame Librarian - Nov 2, 2004 8:23 am (#1933 of 2923)
OK, I'm going to merge two topic areas here: this thread's topic is basically Who is the Half-Blood Prince; on the JKR website, we're discussing chapter titles. One is "Draco's Detour."
Can I make a connection between these two factoids? Does detour mean a change of blood status for Draco? I don't mean one done magically or anything, rather some critical family secret he discovers--or someone discovers for him--about the Malfoys.
An early morning, election-day thought.
Ciao. Barb
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riddikulus - Nov 2, 2004 9:19 am (#1934 of 2923)
I think most of us are taking Prince, in the literal sense. But, perhaps it's the title of a person, as some have suggested, that rallies together on the behalf of the half-blooded wizards. Draco could "detour" and certainly do this. Becoming the HBP. Like an appointed title.
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Steve Newton - Nov 2, 2004 12:18 pm (#1935 of 2923)
Librarian
As a late suggestion. An important character who has been off stage for most of the books. Respected, intelligent, competent, kind and gentle. Filius Flitwick. An maybe a crossbreed.
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I Am Used Vlad - Nov 2, 2004 2:29 pm (#1936 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I'm glad that people are starting to think that Draco could be the HBP. I suggested it back in June to very little fanfare. Here is a post explaining why I think it's him.
I Am Used Vlad - Jul 2, 2004 2:16 pm (#384 of 1937)
The Dark Wizard formerly known as nimrod 2000 Love Those Mandrakes, here is my reasoning.
HBP was once a possible title for CoS, but JKR moved some important information from book 2 to book 6, which is being called HBP. So I think it is fairly safe to assume several things about the important information:
1. It is related to the identity of the HBP.
2. It is important enough to be the title of a Harry Potter book.
3. It must be something that would fit into the plot of CoS, but also something that could be removed without completely changing the story.
I also assume the HBP is someone who was in CoS. If he was important enough to the story to have the book named after him, I would doubt that he could be removed without radically changing the plot. Think fo PoA without Sirius, for instance.
JKR has eliminated Harry and Voldemort, so I just tried to think of a senerio that fit in with my (many) assumptions. The only thing that I can think of that makes sense is that at the end of book 2 JKR was originally going to have it come out that the Malfoys are not pure-bloods, but ended up realizing that she needed to hold off to book 6.
Had Lucius been exposed as a half-blood, Half-Blood Prince would be a perfect nickname for Draco, and I don't think it would have taken long for some student to call him that.
If this is true, I can also see why it ended up making sense to move it to book 6. JKR needed Lucius to still have his status as a prominent pure-blood wizard in OotP.
Edited to correct grammatical errors.
Another reason I think it is Draco is because he is one of the few characters whose blood status matters. Think of the impact on the other students in Slytherin if they found out that their leader for the past five years is a half-blood. It could cause them to rethink their value systems. It could, in fact, lead to the reunification of all the Houses.
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remiden - Nov 2, 2004 9:18 pm (#1937 of 2923)
I like that idea. It could be that Narcissa was a halfblood and hid it and now that Lucius is in Azkaban, she comes out and admit's it. It would be very interesting to see what side Draco would take.
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Star Crossed - Nov 3, 2004 4:49 am (#1938 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Narcissa can't be a halfblood, she's Sirius' cousin. If one of her parents was a muggle or muggleborn, they would be taken off the tree.
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remiden - Nov 3, 2004 7:30 am (#1939 of 2923)
Hence the reason why I said it was hidden.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 3, 2004 10:42 am (#1940 of 2923)
For what it's worth, I think Narcissa is a pureblood. If she wasn't, I don't think she -- nor her sisters -- would have ever been put on the Black family tree to begin with.
I still like the theory of Draco as HBP, though.
Has anyone thought that perhaps ole Lucius might be less than pure? Certainly, he makes a big deal about blood purity -- but so does Voldy, and as we all know, Tom Riddle was born a half-blood.
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 3, 2004 11:16 am (#1941 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
scoop2172000 I agree with you that if Draco is the HBP then it has to be from his fathers side. That may be the reason Lucius is to highly thought of by Voldemort.
Mikie
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Witta Woman - Nov 3, 2004 4:01 pm (#1942 of 2923)
Draco is a good idea but I still want it to be Trevor. I think it would be kind if classic to have a toad-prince on the not-so-good side.
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 4, 2004 8:59 am (#1943 of 2923)
What about Draco having a half-blood girlfriend that he met during his detour, she could turn up at school(or somewhere else) and every one would find out? Maybe it it just a nick name she calls him!!!!
Or Trevor! (i like this too)
DoxyB
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Gerald Costales - Nov 4, 2004 9:13 am (#1944 of 2923)
Edited by Denise P. Nov 4, 2004 8:56 pm
I'd like to point out the fact that it isn't the Truth that matters but the perception of the Truth that matters.
The Truth is Voldermort is a Half-Blood. The perception of the Truth is that Voldermort is a Pure Blood to his supporters. The Truth about any Pure Blood is suspect. The Blacks, Malfoys, etc. claim Pure Blood status but that could only be a perception that they want to project.
I remember a phone call where the person's perrception of me was that I was White (I'm a Minority). He started bashing a minority group and I played along. The internet is also a place where the perception of truth can easily hide the Truth. Adults that are really children and children that are really adults. The news is full of stories of Teenagers being lured by adults through the internet.
I don't think Draco is the HBP. But, I don't think anyone could claim that he is definitely a Pure Blood either. My choice for the HBP is still Godric Gryffindor. We have less information on Gryffindor than Draco, so having Gryffindor as the HBP is a stretch. But, I think Draco as a Half-Blood is equally a stretch that as of yet I can't see.
The three chapter titles have added more fuel to the speculation on the HBP. "Draco's Detour" is more likely Draco visiting Lucius in Azkaban than Draco being a Half-Blood. ;-) GC
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lobelia - Nov 4, 2004 2:04 pm (#1945 of 2923)
Edited by Denise P. Nov 4, 2004 8:56 pm
I think GC has a point. A major subplot of HBP will be the characters taking sides of the blood issue and political (good or evil) side they want to belong. Each character will have to find out the truth despite the misinformation that will be thrown about. Just like in the first clash with Voldemort they did not know who to believe, mostly due to the Imperious curse (sp?). We have already been shown that the Minister of Magic squashed the Voldemort returns information from the newspaper. I think book six will be finding out who you can trust and the seventh book will be the battle.
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Ann - Nov 4, 2004 9:16 pm (#1946 of 2923)
Edited by Denise P. Nov 4, 2004 8:57 pm
But I think I think the HBP can't be Gryffindor. I find it hard to imagine that Slytherin would have a best friend who was a half-blood (or perceived as one). Perhaps one of his children or grandchildren? Or even a modern descendant (not Harry), who can give us the backstory?
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Denise P. - Nov 4, 2004 9:59 pm (#1947 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
I just deleted and edited a number of posts on this thread to take out political references. This is the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum, not the Let's Bring Up Political Issues Forum. Politics will NOT be discussed on this thread or on the Forum.
Please stick to the topic or I will close the thread. If those of you who had a post either edited or deleted have a question about this, feel free to email me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Gerald Costales - Nov 5, 2004 6:25 am (#1948 of 2923)
"But I think the HBP can't be Gryffindor. I find it hard to imagine that Slytherin would have a best friend who was a half-blood (or perceived as one)." Ann
It depends on your perception of how "Prince" or "Half-Blood" is used. Shouting "Weasley is our King!", doesn't make the Weasley's Wizard royality. And a "Half-Blood Prince" could be a label placed on a Wizard who supports Half-Bloods. Some have suggested that James Potter was the Prince of Half-Bloods or James is a Half-Blood Prince. The label "Half-Blood Prince" could apply to Godric Gryffindor even if he is a Pure Blood because you're just labelling him as a supporter of Half-Bloods. I've suggested that the label was orginally the "Mudblood Prince" and that over the years the label has changed to "Half-Blood Prince. "Half-Blood" being more acceptable than the slur "Mudblood".
If the HBP is a person from the past, someone suggested that Gryffindor's son could fit that label, assuming Godric is a Pure Blood and his wife a Muggle.
But with the new information from the J K Rowling website, I may need to rethink some past positions on the HBP. I always assumed the Lion-like person that was described in that excerpt was Godric Gryffindor. With the revealation of "Felix Felicis" as a chapter title, one may ask who is "Felix Felcis"?, assuming that it's a name. The origin for the word "feline" is [L felinus < felis cat] from my dictionary. The dictionary under felicity has . . . < felix, -icis happy]. Who is this "Happy Felicis" or as one website suggests, "Who is this "Luckiest of the Luck"?" *meow* ;-) GC
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Loopy Lupin - Nov 5, 2004 7:30 am (#1949 of 2923)
Vlad,
Count me in on your theory. It makes perfect sense. Draco has sort of been shunted to the periphery in the last couple of books. I have theorized (or agreed with other theories) that, in Book 6, this trend would continue and that we might even see him shipped off to Durmstrang. The fact that we have confirmed that he has a chapter well into the book would seem to dispel that. Draco finding out that his lineage isn't what it seems to be or other people finding out that Draco has been hiding something would be a great storyline. The "half-bloodness" would have to come from Lucius I think as Narcissa's family history seems to be well-documented. It would also play into COS's importance. Perhaps Ron and Harry, originally, found out some additional reasons why Draco isn't the heir of Slytherin.
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Annika - Nov 5, 2004 8:06 am (#1950 of 2923)
Reading through OP last night and something jumped out at me. In "Christmas on the Closed Ward," when the Ginny and Ron are introduced to Grans, she is described as holding out her hand regally. I am not sure if this a clue, and if it is, I am not sure if it points to the Weasley's or Neville, but I thought it was interesting (especially considering the mysterious gum wrapper incident that follows.)
Annika
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Harry living with Snape!!! I think that could be worse then the Dursleys. At least they are stupid.
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Her-melanie - Oct 28, 2004 10:11 am (#1902 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
When did JKR disprove the vampire theory? I think I must've missed that.
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conor maloney - Oct 28, 2004 12:17 pm (#1903 of 2923)
ok here's my snape theory he will become the new DADA teacher ( since the role is so hard to fill) and he will end up saving harry from voldy . then the new character will be the potions teacher ( since the role is easier to fill).
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Loony Loopy Larissa - Oct 28, 2004 1:27 pm (#1904 of 2923)
Her-melanie, Jo said on her website that, to her knowledge, Snape has no connection with vampires (this is paraphrased, of course). Some say that this answer is too ambiguous to totally refute the theory, though.
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James Greenfield - Oct 29, 2004 12:59 am (#1905 of 2923)
Conor Maloney, I agree. If Snape becomes the new DADA teacher, then even if he demands Outstanding marks on a student's OWLs, he'd have to let Harry in the class, because he did so well on the DADA OWL. And maybe, the new Potions teacher will let Harry take sixth-year Potions, even if he didn't do so well on that OWL.
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Witta Woman - Oct 29, 2004 1:29 am (#1906 of 2923)
ok wait! I'm confused. We haven't yet heard the result of the OWLs. Have we?
Plus, I thought Harry was a Pure Blood. Both Lilly and James were witch/wizard therefore Harry's a pure blood.Or because Lilly came from muggles, therefore a mudblood, and James was a pure blood Hary is a three-fourths blood.
I know the JKR said that the HBP is niether Harry nor Voldemort, so who could it be? (Now hearing "Who are You" playing in my head)
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James Greenfield - Oct 29, 2004 1:50 am (#1907 of 2923)
Witta Woman -- No, we don't have the results from anyone's OWLs yet. That will be in Book 6. BUT, we do know that Harry thought he did extremely well on the DADA OWL, and thought he did not do much more than average on Potions OWL.
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Star Crossed - Oct 29, 2004 3:48 am (#1908 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
And JKR said that Harry is a halfblood because the people who actually care about bloodlines go back for generations.
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riddikulus - Oct 31, 2004 9:06 am (#1909 of 2923)
I'm becomming more and more convinced it's Draco. In Chamber, Hagrid said "No wizard alive today is pure blood, they're all half blood or less" I'm gonna go with the theory, the little ferret isn't what he thinks he is... when he gets taken down another peg or two, perhaps he'll be more inclined to "detour" into the DA and befriend Harry. He wasn't even on my list, initially, but JKR might just pull something like this.
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Oct 31, 2004 2:10 pm (#1910 of 2923)
Good theory Riddikulus,
I was thinking about DM taking a trip to visit his poor old dad before his return to Hogwarts, as his detour. HBP though? I'm not convinced it is DM, but i do like the idea of him comming to join the DA, maybe as a spy though!
DoxyB
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Saud - Oct 31, 2004 7:08 pm (#1911 of 2923)
Who then would be HRH's arch-rival at Hogwarts?
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Classicsquid592 - Oct 31, 2004 7:31 pm (#1912 of 2923)
Ridikkulus, the same thought came into my mind when I read JKR's new clue. If Narcissa was a muggle-born she might have made a point of distancing herself from her family and lying about her blood. That would be pretty devastating for poor Draco if he found out.
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MickeyCee3948 - Oct 31, 2004 7:35 pm (#1913 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Narcissa is a Black and Bella's sister. I don't believe Draco will be the HBP. But I have no idea what his detour is going to entail.
Mikie
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remiden - Oct 31, 2004 7:38 pm (#1914 of 2923)
Rowling has already stated that Harry and Draco will always hate each other.
If Draco does indeed come over to the good side, this is what I envision as the most likely scenario. Snape gets caught by DEs and is tortured/killed/whatever, and Malfoy watches this happen. Malfoy in all the rest of the books has looked up to Snape, and this pushes him in the right direction. Possibly Draco sees his friends Crabb and Goyle in on the torturing and starts to resent them for it. I don't think it will happen at all, but I think if it it does, snape will play a large roll in it. Maybe Snape simply recruits him.
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The Artful Dodger - Nov 1, 2004 1:08 am (#1915 of 2923)
Riddikulus, the quote you are referring to is from Ron (Hagrid only says that in the movie, but not in the book). Ron also says something like "if we hadn't married half-bloods, we would have died out." (don't have the books with me for the exact quote). That might be a clue that Ron is a half-blood.
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 7:55 am (#1916 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Ok, I haven't posted in a while, and I've been madly attempting to catch up on reading the posts, but I have 500 left to read, so forgive me if this has already been suggested...
The HBP is someone or something that Fudge introduces, as a way of "saving face" in front of the wizarding world.
He produces a "hero"; or something that helps in the fight against Voldemort, but backfires in some way.
Fudge is a proud man above all and despite the fact that he now has to admit that Voldy is around and causing problems it doesn't seem like he'd be the kind to go asking DD for help; rather he would go about setting an elaborate counter attack of sorts.
One that promotes hope and confidence in the wizard world as well as a way to re-validate old traditions and the purpose of the ministry of magic.
Does that make sense? Its kinda late
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 7:59 am (#1917 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Also, I know this might be a big ask, but could someone list (or summarize) exactly what Jo has said in regards to the book HPB? Thanks.
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Phoenix song - Nov 1, 2004 8:04 am (#1918 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Wannabemuggle: I'd suggest that if you want a summary to all that JKR has said regarding HBP that you go to the leaky cauldron's web site. They have a compilation of all of the information that has been collected regarding the book called "All that there is to know about the Half-blood Prince if you're not JK Rowling." Pretty much everything that we've heard from her is listed there. The rest is just conjecture, theory and conclusion. Try there first if you want all of the interview "canon" from her.
Hope that this has been a help!
Barbie
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 1, 2004 8:04 am (#1919 of 2923)
I think most of what has been said about HBP is on her web site.
Have you been on to JK's site? The door is open, which reveals more information that you are looking for.
DoxyB
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 8:16 am (#1920 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Doxy- Haha, yeah, ive been to her website! But in honesty i have no idea how to get to the door?! (embarressment)
Thanks Barbie! I shall run there now
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 8:19 am (#1921 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Wait, ok, I'm at the door, but i can't get it to open? What do i have to do?
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Phoenix song - Nov 1, 2004 8:21 am (#1922 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Wait patiently for a few minutes until Peeves comes along and knocks over the vase. Keys will fly out of the vase. Then click and drag the keys one by one to the key lock until you find the one that fits. The door will open after you've found the right one. Then approach the desk, click and drag open the desk door, and take out the magnifying glass. Happy hunting!
Barbie
Doxy B: We keep posting at the same time!! Let me send over a big wave since we're so close! HELLO!
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 1, 2004 8:21 am (#1923 of 2923)
Wait for peeves to come.
Then have some fun trying to find a key that fits the lock!
DoxyB
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Wannabemuggle - Nov 1, 2004 8:28 am (#1924 of 2923)
Romi the Arts student
Haha, ok, thanks to both of you!!!
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 1, 2004 8:33 am (#1925 of 2923)
I'm laughing too, both times i went to post and Barbie you were there too.
I have just reread the last few and saw your message!
Hello to you too, how nice to be on the same wave length with someone today* Hope you are well.
Best wishes
DoxyB
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riddikulus - Nov 1, 2004 9:56 am (#1926 of 2923)
Edited by Nov 1, 2004 8:58 am
Dodger, you're right... but, I like to take references from the movies, because if something's in the movie, I'd like to think it's going to be relevant at some point down the line. Nonetheless, it was said... so, given that, I think we're going to come to find out that someone isn't what they seem to be. Sure, it very well could be one of the Weasleys, or Draco (as he's given his own chapter "Dracos Detour"). My original thought was Hagrid, but like I said above, i'm becoming more and more inclined to think Draco will play a bigger role in this... but if it is one of the Weasleys, Ron perhaps, then maybe he befriends Draco at some point. I just can't buy it being one of them though, because there are too many of them... how do you justify Ron being the prince and none of the others? Hagrid, before Grawp came into the picture, was alone... Draco is an only child.
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The Artful Dodger - Nov 1, 2004 3:39 pm (#1927 of 2923)
I just think Ron might be half-blood because he says "if we hadn't married muggles we would have died out". We can refer to pure-bloods in general, or to the Weasley family only (which is the more interesting possiblity).
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Classicsquid592 - Nov 1, 2004 5:36 pm (#1928 of 2923)
In a chat in 1999 JKR said that we would definitely see Aragog in the future. Knowing of the connection between book 2 and 6 and this the following thought popped into my head: what if the stranger who sold Aragog to Hagrid was the Half-blood Prince? Any thoughts?
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hopping hessian - Nov 1, 2004 6:14 pm (#1929 of 2923)
"Extrodinary claims require extrordinary proof" -Bill Nye
Artful Doger: If I recall correctly, accrding to CoS, the Weasleys are all pure-bloods. I believe he meant "we" in the general sense.
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Urvi Bhimani - Nov 1, 2004 6:17 pm (#1930 of 2923)
I don't think Draco is the HBP. In OOTP, Rowling clearly stated that DM is pureblood on the family tree thing. And as for him turning over to the good side, as Ron would say "Poisoned toadstools don't change their spots"
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riddikulus - Nov 1, 2004 10:00 pm (#1931 of 2923)
Classicsquid, it's funny you said that, I've mentioned that before and wrote this, just now on another thread: I just can't help though, thinking that Aragog wasn't given to Hagrid as an accident... he really did come in handy and whomever provided him to Hagrid knew something of the future, perhaps.
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VeronikaG - Nov 2, 2004 3:23 am (#1932 of 2923)
Well, Draco believes that he's a pure blood. But we know nothing for sure. The readers only know what Harry knows, and as far as Harry's concerned, Draco's a pure blood. He could discover that he's a half blood.
If you go back a few posts, I have explained why Draco is my best guess for the HBP. As this person is the main topic of book 6, and will interact directly with Harry, I'd say it has to be somebody who's important to the plot. We've known Draco since the beginning, and I have a feeling he's not going to just remain an annoying little bug the way he has been until now. He was an important side character in the first two books, where the rules of the story were set. In later books he's been a bit in the background, but I think it's time for him to come out again. Jo wouldn't let his dad being put in prison have no effect on him. At the end of OotP Draco was furious with Harry, and honestly there is no way he can't at least try to take revenge on him. The rivalry between these two young but powerful wizards (I believe Draco has strong magic powers, even if he doesn't do best in theoretical subjects) will probably be a big part of the book. As the HBP has to be a very important character it could very well be Draco in this setting.
Either that, or it's Trevor!
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Madame Librarian - Nov 2, 2004 8:23 am (#1933 of 2923)
OK, I'm going to merge two topic areas here: this thread's topic is basically Who is the Half-Blood Prince; on the JKR website, we're discussing chapter titles. One is "Draco's Detour."
Can I make a connection between these two factoids? Does detour mean a change of blood status for Draco? I don't mean one done magically or anything, rather some critical family secret he discovers--or someone discovers for him--about the Malfoys.
An early morning, election-day thought.
Ciao. Barb
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riddikulus - Nov 2, 2004 9:19 am (#1934 of 2923)
I think most of us are taking Prince, in the literal sense. But, perhaps it's the title of a person, as some have suggested, that rallies together on the behalf of the half-blooded wizards. Draco could "detour" and certainly do this. Becoming the HBP. Like an appointed title.
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Steve Newton - Nov 2, 2004 12:18 pm (#1935 of 2923)
Librarian
As a late suggestion. An important character who has been off stage for most of the books. Respected, intelligent, competent, kind and gentle. Filius Flitwick. An maybe a crossbreed.
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I Am Used Vlad - Nov 2, 2004 2:29 pm (#1936 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I'm glad that people are starting to think that Draco could be the HBP. I suggested it back in June to very little fanfare. Here is a post explaining why I think it's him.
I Am Used Vlad - Jul 2, 2004 2:16 pm (#384 of 1937)
The Dark Wizard formerly known as nimrod 2000 Love Those Mandrakes, here is my reasoning.
HBP was once a possible title for CoS, but JKR moved some important information from book 2 to book 6, which is being called HBP. So I think it is fairly safe to assume several things about the important information:
1. It is related to the identity of the HBP.
2. It is important enough to be the title of a Harry Potter book.
3. It must be something that would fit into the plot of CoS, but also something that could be removed without completely changing the story.
I also assume the HBP is someone who was in CoS. If he was important enough to the story to have the book named after him, I would doubt that he could be removed without radically changing the plot. Think fo PoA without Sirius, for instance.
JKR has eliminated Harry and Voldemort, so I just tried to think of a senerio that fit in with my (many) assumptions. The only thing that I can think of that makes sense is that at the end of book 2 JKR was originally going to have it come out that the Malfoys are not pure-bloods, but ended up realizing that she needed to hold off to book 6.
Had Lucius been exposed as a half-blood, Half-Blood Prince would be a perfect nickname for Draco, and I don't think it would have taken long for some student to call him that.
If this is true, I can also see why it ended up making sense to move it to book 6. JKR needed Lucius to still have his status as a prominent pure-blood wizard in OotP.
Edited to correct grammatical errors.
Another reason I think it is Draco is because he is one of the few characters whose blood status matters. Think of the impact on the other students in Slytherin if they found out that their leader for the past five years is a half-blood. It could cause them to rethink their value systems. It could, in fact, lead to the reunification of all the Houses.
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remiden - Nov 2, 2004 9:18 pm (#1937 of 2923)
I like that idea. It could be that Narcissa was a halfblood and hid it and now that Lucius is in Azkaban, she comes out and admit's it. It would be very interesting to see what side Draco would take.
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Star Crossed - Nov 3, 2004 4:49 am (#1938 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Narcissa can't be a halfblood, she's Sirius' cousin. If one of her parents was a muggle or muggleborn, they would be taken off the tree.
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remiden - Nov 3, 2004 7:30 am (#1939 of 2923)
Hence the reason why I said it was hidden.
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scoop2172000 - Nov 3, 2004 10:42 am (#1940 of 2923)
For what it's worth, I think Narcissa is a pureblood. If she wasn't, I don't think she -- nor her sisters -- would have ever been put on the Black family tree to begin with.
I still like the theory of Draco as HBP, though.
Has anyone thought that perhaps ole Lucius might be less than pure? Certainly, he makes a big deal about blood purity -- but so does Voldy, and as we all know, Tom Riddle was born a half-blood.
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 3, 2004 11:16 am (#1941 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
scoop2172000 I agree with you that if Draco is the HBP then it has to be from his fathers side. That may be the reason Lucius is to highly thought of by Voldemort.
Mikie
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Witta Woman - Nov 3, 2004 4:01 pm (#1942 of 2923)
Draco is a good idea but I still want it to be Trevor. I think it would be kind if classic to have a toad-prince on the not-so-good side.
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Doxy Bowtruckle - Nov 4, 2004 8:59 am (#1943 of 2923)
What about Draco having a half-blood girlfriend that he met during his detour, she could turn up at school(or somewhere else) and every one would find out? Maybe it it just a nick name she calls him!!!!
Or Trevor! (i like this too)
DoxyB
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Gerald Costales - Nov 4, 2004 9:13 am (#1944 of 2923)
Edited by Denise P. Nov 4, 2004 8:56 pm
I'd like to point out the fact that it isn't the Truth that matters but the perception of the Truth that matters.
The Truth is Voldermort is a Half-Blood. The perception of the Truth is that Voldermort is a Pure Blood to his supporters. The Truth about any Pure Blood is suspect. The Blacks, Malfoys, etc. claim Pure Blood status but that could only be a perception that they want to project.
I remember a phone call where the person's perrception of me was that I was White (I'm a Minority). He started bashing a minority group and I played along. The internet is also a place where the perception of truth can easily hide the Truth. Adults that are really children and children that are really adults. The news is full of stories of Teenagers being lured by adults through the internet.
I don't think Draco is the HBP. But, I don't think anyone could claim that he is definitely a Pure Blood either. My choice for the HBP is still Godric Gryffindor. We have less information on Gryffindor than Draco, so having Gryffindor as the HBP is a stretch. But, I think Draco as a Half-Blood is equally a stretch that as of yet I can't see.
The three chapter titles have added more fuel to the speculation on the HBP. "Draco's Detour" is more likely Draco visiting Lucius in Azkaban than Draco being a Half-Blood. ;-) GC
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lobelia - Nov 4, 2004 2:04 pm (#1945 of 2923)
Edited by Denise P. Nov 4, 2004 8:56 pm
I think GC has a point. A major subplot of HBP will be the characters taking sides of the blood issue and political (good or evil) side they want to belong. Each character will have to find out the truth despite the misinformation that will be thrown about. Just like in the first clash with Voldemort they did not know who to believe, mostly due to the Imperious curse (sp?). We have already been shown that the Minister of Magic squashed the Voldemort returns information from the newspaper. I think book six will be finding out who you can trust and the seventh book will be the battle.
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Ann - Nov 4, 2004 9:16 pm (#1946 of 2923)
Edited by Denise P. Nov 4, 2004 8:57 pm
But I think I think the HBP can't be Gryffindor. I find it hard to imagine that Slytherin would have a best friend who was a half-blood (or perceived as one). Perhaps one of his children or grandchildren? Or even a modern descendant (not Harry), who can give us the backstory?
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Denise P. - Nov 4, 2004 9:59 pm (#1947 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
I just deleted and edited a number of posts on this thread to take out political references. This is the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum, not the Let's Bring Up Political Issues Forum. Politics will NOT be discussed on this thread or on the Forum.
Please stick to the topic or I will close the thread. If those of you who had a post either edited or deleted have a question about this, feel free to email me at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Gerald Costales - Nov 5, 2004 6:25 am (#1948 of 2923)
"But I think the HBP can't be Gryffindor. I find it hard to imagine that Slytherin would have a best friend who was a half-blood (or perceived as one)." Ann
It depends on your perception of how "Prince" or "Half-Blood" is used. Shouting "Weasley is our King!", doesn't make the Weasley's Wizard royality. And a "Half-Blood Prince" could be a label placed on a Wizard who supports Half-Bloods. Some have suggested that James Potter was the Prince of Half-Bloods or James is a Half-Blood Prince. The label "Half-Blood Prince" could apply to Godric Gryffindor even if he is a Pure Blood because you're just labelling him as a supporter of Half-Bloods. I've suggested that the label was orginally the "Mudblood Prince" and that over the years the label has changed to "Half-Blood Prince. "Half-Blood" being more acceptable than the slur "Mudblood".
If the HBP is a person from the past, someone suggested that Gryffindor's son could fit that label, assuming Godric is a Pure Blood and his wife a Muggle.
But with the new information from the J K Rowling website, I may need to rethink some past positions on the HBP. I always assumed the Lion-like person that was described in that excerpt was Godric Gryffindor. With the revealation of "Felix Felicis" as a chapter title, one may ask who is "Felix Felcis"?, assuming that it's a name. The origin for the word "feline" is [L felinus < felis cat] from my dictionary. The dictionary under felicity has . . . < felix, -icis happy]. Who is this "Happy Felicis" or as one website suggests, "Who is this "Luckiest of the Luck"?" *meow* ;-) GC
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Loopy Lupin - Nov 5, 2004 7:30 am (#1949 of 2923)
Vlad,
Count me in on your theory. It makes perfect sense. Draco has sort of been shunted to the periphery in the last couple of books. I have theorized (or agreed with other theories) that, in Book 6, this trend would continue and that we might even see him shipped off to Durmstrang. The fact that we have confirmed that he has a chapter well into the book would seem to dispel that. Draco finding out that his lineage isn't what it seems to be or other people finding out that Draco has been hiding something would be a great storyline. The "half-bloodness" would have to come from Lucius I think as Narcissa's family history seems to be well-documented. It would also play into COS's importance. Perhaps Ron and Harry, originally, found out some additional reasons why Draco isn't the heir of Slytherin.
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Annika - Nov 5, 2004 8:06 am (#1950 of 2923)
Reading through OP last night and something jumped out at me. In "Christmas on the Closed Ward," when the Ginny and Ron are introduced to Grans, she is described as holding out her hand regally. I am not sure if this a clue, and if it is, I am not sure if it points to the Weasley's or Neville, but I thought it was interesting (especially considering the mysterious gum wrapper incident that follows.)
Annika
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Gerald Costales - Nov 6, 2004 1:56 pm (#1951 of 2923)
" . . . (Neville's) Grans, she is described as holding out her hand regally. . . . I am not sure if it points to the Weasley's or Neville, but I thought it was interesting (especially considering the mysterious gum wrapper incident that follows.)" Annika
I've wondered about the gum wrapper also. Didn't Grans say that Neville had enough gum wrappers to paper the walls of his room then Neville discreetly pockets the gum wrapper. My son thought it wasn't important. But, JKR seems to give little clues that resurface with more meaning latter. Harry talked to a snake while at the zoo in Book 1 then it's later revealed that he's a Parseltongue. Harry and Voldermort have Fawkes' feather as the core of their wands then in the Graveyard the wands lock because the wands are brothers.
I'd be more inclined to have Neville turn out to be the HBP than Draco. Neville is also tied to the Prophecy, both Harry and Neville were "born as the seventh month dies" but only Harry is "marked" by Voldermort. ;-) GC
PS There's always Trevor. ;-) GC
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Betelgeuse Black - Nov 6, 2004 7:35 pm (#1952 of 2923)
One problem with Neville being the HBP is that he's pure-blooded. Dumbledore says so in the OotP. Of course, I have argued that the prince does not have to be half-blood, but it fits the implications better.
Betegeuse
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Margaret Richardson - Nov 7, 2004 6:07 pm (#1953 of 2923)
I've also wondered about Neville being the HBP, simply because of his connection with Harry and the prophecy. Also, in OotP he changes quite a bit and seems to find new strength and purpose. What if the prophecy was meant for Neville and not Harry after all? Why would the DE have gone after the Longbottoms to find out what had happened to Voldemort after he lost his powers? I assume that they and the Potter's were marked by Voldemort because of their sons' birthdays!
I also agree with Gerald, that the title HBP may be symbolic of his moral stand, rather than his linage.
The one thing I really hope it's not (not this late in the story anyway) is that it's a new character that we have to get to know. I would prefer it to be one of the current characters, just because I feel the impact of finding out will mean more if it's someone we already know. We may not like who that is, but we will have more of an emotional response to it. Just my feeling on it anyway.
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Eliza - Aug 22, 2004 10:25 am (#1954 of 2923)
We say that Neville is a pure blood because his parents are a witch and a wizard and his father's family are magical. However, I do not think we have ever heard anything about Neville's grandparents on his mother's side. Harry is considered half-blood,even though his parents were a witch and a wizard,because his mother's parents were muggles. If Neville's grandparents on his mother's side turn out to be muggles, that would explain several things: 1. Why Neville lives with his father's family 2. Why Neville says"... the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages..."PS/SS p.125 He did not say "the family thought I was a squib", which obviously is not a dirty word in the magical world because Ms. Figg calls herself a squib at the beginning of OoP. 3. Why Neville always seems to feel infere to his father and yet does not seem to metion feeling infere to his mother. 4. Why his mother is obsessed with gum wrappers(Gum seems to be a muggle thing, not a wizarding world thing. Also, this would add yet another similarity between Neville and Harry. Uh-Oh I just became a Neville is the HBP fan. Oh Well. Things change.
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Star Crossed - Nov 7, 2004 8:11 pm (#1955 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Why Neville says"... the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages..."PS/SS p.125 He did not say "the family thought I was a squib", which obviously is not a dirty word in the magical world because Ms. Figg calls herself a squib at the beginning of OoP.
I think the reason of this is that JKR didn't want to get into what a squib is until CoS. She'd have to explain what it was before it's time to shine.
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emma bailey - Nov 7, 2004 10:49 pm (#1956 of 2923)
I thought that JKR said that Nevilles was a pure blood. Matter a fact I sure I read that some where. You know who I think the HBP is Theodore Not. I keep reading that he lives whith his dad who is a DE. You never hear anything about his mother.
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emma bailey - Nov 7, 2004 10:54 pm (#1957 of 2923)
Ah, I can just read it now. Theo's Mum was killed by his dad, to show his loyity to LV, or maybe they are hiding her for this reason. you never can tell. JKR Rocks.
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Ann - Nov 8, 2004 9:22 am (#1958 of 2923)
Dumbledore (who presumably knows) says explicitly that Neville is a pure-blood when he describes Voldemort's choice to go after Harry: He says that Voldemort has chosen the half-blood, like himself, over the pure-blood (which he presumably claims to believe is better). So I don't think Neville can be the HBP.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 8, 2004 5:01 pm (#1959 of 2923)
This quote:
"...the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages..." (PS/SS p.125)
has been analyzed six ways to Sunday on the Forum for ages and ages. I do believe that Eliza and Star Crossed have touched upon a truly wonderful explanation for using "all-Muggle" as opposed to "Squib."
It is indeed something to do with Alice's forebears. We know from Gran that Frank's side is pureblood, but, Eliza's right, I think, Gran doesn't say much or anything at all about Alice's side. Hmmmm. Did she have a bit of a prejudice herself, and disapprove of the marriage a little? Was it because Alice was half-blood? Did Neville's family (all from the Longbottom side) keep testing his magical ability because of a belief (mistaken) that a half-blood heritage on one side might be more likely to produce a Squib. Did they use the term "Muggle" as a somewhat disparaging reference to a Muggle relative? They were being facetious, of course, but the "all-Muggle" was in contrast to just part Muggle which is another way of saying half-blood, though wizards generally don't use it.
So, I don't think Neville is the HBP, but based on this supposition, he could be, I think.
Eliza and Star Crossed, take 10 points each!
BTW--If someone does know of a canon quote about Neville that clears up Alice's lineage, please let us know, because, of course, it would quash this bit quite well.
Ciao. Barb
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Eponine - Nov 8, 2004 6:13 pm (#1960 of 2923)
CoS UK paperback p. 139 "Neville Longbottom bought a large, evil-smelling green onion, a pointed purple crystal and a rotting newt-tail before the other Gryffindor boys pointed out that he was in no danger: he was a pure-blood, and therefore unlikely to be attacked."
OotP UK hardback p. 742 "And notice this, Harry: he chose, not the pure-blood (which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard worth being or knowing) but the half-blood, like himself."
Hope that helps, Barb!
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Snuffles - Nov 9, 2004 1:56 am (#1961 of 2923)
Olivia
Hi everyone this is my first post on this thread.
Im not sure if anyone has suggested it before so im sorry if they have but has anyone thought that Dumbledore might be the half blood prince. Does it state anywhere that he is pure blood? its just with him making comments that it doesnt matter whether someone is pure blood or muggle born but how they grow up and what paths they choose. I got to thinking so i thought i would ask on the forum because im sure someone will be able to put me straight if its been discussed before.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 9, 2004 9:30 am (#1962 of 2923)
Eponine, thanks for showing us the right stuff when it comes to poor Neville. Well, there's another elegant theory shot to pieces [sigh].
Ciao. Barb
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emma bailey - Nov 9, 2004 9:30 am (#1963 of 2923)
Good thought.
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emma bailey - Nov 9, 2004 9:32 am (#1964 of 2923)
Just maybe it is Theo Nott. She never did say any thing about his mom.
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Loopy Lupin - Nov 9, 2004 9:48 am (#1965 of 2923)
Perhaps the "all-Muggle" comment has a more simple explanation. Wasn't the concept of a "squib" introduced in COS? So, either JKR hadn't really named the idea yet in PS/SS or she just didn't want to get into that whole explanation at the time. "Muggle" was a term the reader had just been introduced to, so it was just easier to say "all-Muggle" without getting into the squib explanation.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 9, 2004 9:53 am (#1966 of 2923)
Well, this is going to be an awkward idea to post (dungbombs ready everyone?), but what if DD made a mistake about Neville? He made such a point of telling Harry that the kid is pure-blood. Sometimes when JKR repeats things or stresses them, we find out later that it was either something we should have remembered and maybe a clue. But what if we're going to discover this crafty author also uses this as a way to highlight that the "fact" stated was...um...wrong? DD has admitted that he's made mistakes before, mostly in his treatment of Harry and how much information he should be told about his history (and future), but what if there are others?
OK, here's the awkward part: On post #2893 on the JKR (I) site, Remiden asked the simple question if anyone has considered the fact that the first syllable of DD's name is "dumb." [**ducks as first dungbomb hits wall behind her**] Does DD have a teensy bit of selective dumbness, especially when it comes to his beloved students and Order members?
After all this effort to theorize at great risk to self, I still don't think Neville is the HBP. Sheesh!
[**skedaddles off the thread quickly as the nasty missiles come a-flying]
Ciao. Barb
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Annika - Nov 9, 2004 10:05 am (#1967 of 2923)
Madame Librarian, One of the definitions for "dumb" is "temporarily speechless, as from fear; an unwillingness to talk." I think this is a very fitting definition of Dumbledore.
DD has many secrets, a few of which he has now shared (to some extent), but many which he has not. People follow DD, almost blindly, trusting in him though he withholds crucial details. So I think your theory is quite good.
As for Neville, I am torn. I had mentioned (on some thread or other) the scene from Christmas on the Closed Ward were Grans Longbottom holds out her hand "regally" toward the Weasleys (Ron & Ginny). I agree as pure bloods, neither Ron nor Neville fit the criteria of being the HBP, but then again …
Annika
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Cliodne - Nov 9, 2004 6:40 pm (#1968 of 2923)
about the title, HP and the half-blood prince, prince of what? are there royalties in the wizarding world?
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emma bailey - Nov 9, 2004 7:57 pm (#1969 of 2923)
What about Theo Nott?
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emilythestrangew - Nov 9, 2004 8:13 pm (#1970 of 2923)
Has anyone heard any rumors or truths about when the book is coming out??
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remiden - Nov 9, 2004 11:12 pm (#1971 of 2923)
I read on another site a very interesting theory about the prophecy that may have to do with the HBP or Theodore Nott, or I at least believe that the prophecy is about three people, not just two. The poster stated that when Trelawney gives the prophecies, her voice becomes raspy and strained. Is it possible that Dumbledore misunderstood what she was saying? Could she have said this...
(Original Prophecy)
The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies ... and the Dark Lord will mark him as equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives ...
In two lines there, it says But he will have the power the Dark Lord knows not....
but could it be read as But he will have the power. The Dark Lord knows Nott.....
In the last line could it be instead of And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives.....
be this.... And either must die at the hand of Theodore for neither can live while Theodore survives....
I believe that she either said Theodore and Dumbledore mistook it for th other, or that the reference to the other is about another person entirely. I know this might have been posted in the prophecy forum, but I really didn't feel like reading 350 posts tonight just to post this.
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Saud - Nov 9, 2004 11:29 pm (#1972 of 2923)
Amazing.
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Ann - Nov 9, 2004 11:50 pm (#1973 of 2923)
remiden, you might have searched the Prophecy thread for "Theodore" and "Nott," but I don't think it's been suggested.
Very, very clever and sneaky, your idea, and I wouldn't put it past JKR for a minute. However, I've got two objections: First, to make it work, you would have to pronounce Theodore "The-o-dore," rather than the normal "The-o-dore." That would be pretty weird. More importantly, though, it has the same problem that all the three-person interpretations have: The second clause is supposed to explain the first: "Either must die at the hand of Theodore, for neither can live while Theodore survives" simply doesn't make sense: if Theodore's survival keeps both from living, I can see why they would both have to kill Theodore, but I can see no reason why it would constitute a good reason for Theodore to kill them.
But...wow! You should post this on the Prophecy thread!
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Gerald Costales - Nov 10, 2004 7:14 am (#1974 of 2923)
"but could it be read as But he will have the power. The Dark Lord knows Nott....." also
"be this.... And either must die at the hand of Theodore for neither can live while Theodore survives....
I believe that she either said Theodore and Dumbledore mistook it for th other, or that the reference to the other is about another person entirely." remiden
I just posted these two parts of remiden's original post. Basically we have "not" vs. "Nott" and "of the other" vs. "of The-odore". Harry sees and hears the Prophecy in Dumbledore's pensieve, so I don't think we are just basing the Prophecy on only Dumbledore's interpretation of the Prophecy.
I think the "not vs. Nott" part could be a possibility. But, the "of the other" vs. "of The-odore" part is a bit of a stretch. A third person whether Theodore Nott or Neville maybe part of the Prophecy. But, Harry is still the "One" marked by the Dark Lord. And Dumbledore does exclude Neville as the "One" because Neville isn't marked by the Dark Lord.
Great twist on the Prophecy. Only Book 6 & 7 will prove whose right at this point. ;-) GC
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 10, 2004 8:03 am (#1975 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I like that idea remiden but I keep thinking what JKR said about her and Trelawney phasing the prophecy very carefully. I don't think JKR would emphasis the wording and then throw a major revision to the actual words of the prophecy.
Mikie
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Denise S. - Nov 10, 2004 8:50 am (#1976 of 2923)
We are not a cult, we're just slightly obsessed and mentally unstable. There's a difference. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I agree, Mickey Cee, especially since if someone was important enough to be in the Prophecy, they would have gotten much more plot time by now.
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Hawthorn Wycke - Nov 11, 2004 3:25 am (#1977 of 2923)
Dear Joe, J.K. Rowling, Mrs. Neil Murray, as I put quill to paper at the 11th hour, of the 11th day of the eleventh month because I have just one question – what is the significance of the number eleven?
Is the number 11 a primer to your books? Or is it yours and Harry’s birthday added together (July 31 = 7+3+1 = 11)? Mine is a day before and several years after, as I was surprised to find that I shared with Neville Longbottom. Poor Neville to be born as the seventh month dies as a double Leo sun to feel the intensity ten (11) times more than anyone else, spend sleepless nights within Ford’s innovation under a Scorpio moon and possess a regal honor that few will understand. Hermione seems to be more of a Libra than a Virgo, but it’s a good thing she wasn’t born on September 11th (9/11); although we are told that Ginny was born on August 11th which is perhaps more of a hint to those who don’t understand what romance is conjured within the books. Still, it was disappointing at jkrowling.com to enter in the word e-l-e-v-e-n on the mobile to not have it become a portkey. I’m betting Draco is a Scorpio, which is just a land-lobster that’s very nice in butter once you remove the tail, but I don’t set much store in astrology. Astronomy, however, tells us that the second sun could have been Jupiter but it wasn’t big enough to become a sun; still we wonder if the additional mass of asteroids impacting its surface will one day make it so.
Where was I? Ah yes, Harry was 11 years old when he was accepted into Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry and his vault at Gringotts was 713 (again adding up to 11) to purchase his Holly 11’ wand in the beginning of the Stone (SS or PS), then no mention of it in the Chamber of Secrets (CoS) except for missing the train at 11 o’clock on Platform 9-3/4. Are we picking daisy petals here as - yes 11, no 11 throughout the Harry Potter series? Will 11 be the undoing of it all or will it be the savior at the 11th hour?
As we get back on track with the 11 primer in the Prisoner of Azkaban (PoA) with Harry paying 11 sickles to ride the Knight Bus and reside in Room 11 at the Leaky Cauldron. Then further in his journey his godfather, Sirius Black, takes money out of his own vault 711 to buy Harry a new Firebolt broom for Christmas. Seven-eleven (711), were you being funny or where you having writer’s block on the western seaboard of North America craving a stop for a Big Gulp and some gum? For I am not a writer but I dearly love coffee; but to get back to the books…
There again, the number 11 appears not to us in the Goblet of Fire (GoF) unless you count the wands of Harry and his father, James Potter, who had a mahogany 11’ wand if I’m not mistaken. Finally, but not the last, Ron Weasley’s is gifted a new Cleansweep 11 by becoming a prefect in Order of the Phoenix (OoP) while attending with Harry, Firenze’s new professorship in Classroom 11.
Incidentally, the Scottish people ARE NOT British, nor are they English, as they are separate ethnic tribes. It’s like the Centaur’s said, the Scottish are an ancient people, “a race apart, and proud to be so.” It is uniquely interesting that a modern writer could earn a living basing Hogwarts on Edinburgh Castle where King James of the New Testament Bible put to death thousands of impoverish people by extreme torture for witchcraft, but then again, as he upheld the policy of his predecessors to “turned the other cheek” towards the Englishmen who put Jeanne d’Arc to death for the same when she tried to free her own people at the precious age of 19 years old. Still, these days and those, the Scottish people would be more willing to accept that which is not their own, if one would only reply “aye” instead of “yes” while in Scotland – out of respect that they endured the persecution, XXX (not kisses), murder, torture, deportation, desecration of tombstones, unfair trade restrictions (don’t believe me? Try to spend anything that has the Bank of Scotland on it in England) and the silent invasion of modern times that has been imposed upon the Scottish people for millenniums just for standing up for their rights of self-determination.
Nevertheless, it is entirely possible that the number eleven is just J.K. Rowling’s favorite number. However, it would appear to be true that she is an idealist, artist, highly energized inspiration that the number 11 symbolizes the principle of enlightenment. Numerology will declare me as a one but my favorite number has always been 3, so I put no stock into it, but perhaps Rowling should write 11 books total.
Ah well. Keep up the good work, plant lavender by your roses and say “aye” whenever possible.
Thank you for your time and please talk amongst yourselves so maybe we’ll get an answer.
Wishing wands, Hawthorne Wycke (via message board)
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Madame Librarian - Nov 11, 2004 8:53 am (#1978 of 2923)
Hawthorne Wycke, I'm not sure I understand all of your historical references to Scotland, etc., but the no. 11 stuff was interesting. Have you noticed that no. 12 also figures greatly in the story?
Here are just a few references (I am at work, and these are what come off the top of my head):
12 Grimmauld Place
913--address of the Weasley twins' joke shop, adds up to 12
12 slots on the clock at the Burrow; DD's watch, too, has 12 spaces
12 signs of the Zodiac
I know there are more. In fact, I will search the forum and the Lexicon to see if I can dredge up others. However, this is off-topic since this is the HP6 thread, so I may post on a different thread (probably "Not Covered in Other Threads"). Keep a watch for it.
Ciao. Barb
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Steve Newton - Nov 11, 2004 11:08 am (#1979 of 2923)
Librarian
Um, 913 actually adds up to 13.
13 is a very bad number in the series.
There are also 12 good guys at the battle of the MOM. DAs, 5 OOTP, and Dumbledore.
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emilythestrangew - Nov 11, 2004 12:38 pm (#1980 of 2923)
Has anyone heard about when it's supposed to come out?
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remiden - Nov 11, 2004 1:05 pm (#1981 of 2923)
Book 1 Dumbledore uses his Put-Outer to extinguish the 12 street lamps on Privet Drive. Dumbledore's watch has 12 hands. The milkman delivers two dozen letter-filled eggs to the Dursley's. On Friday, 12 letters arrive for Harry. Hagrid is described as being at least twice the height of a normal man. If a normal man is around 6 feet tall, that would make Hagrid approximately 12 feet tall. The troll Quirrel let in on Halloween was 12 feet tall. During the flying lesson, it says Neville originally rises to 12 feet. The Wizards Duel with Draco was supposed to happen at midnight. At the first Quidditch Match, Neville tells Draco he's worth 12 of him. There are 12 Christmas trees in the Great Hall. Dumbledore is famous for discovering the 12 uses of Dragon's blood. At exactly 12:00 AM Harry turns 11, and Hagrid bangs on the door. Shortly before the trio leaves to go through the trapdoor, Hermione says that she won't get kicked out because she got 112 percent on Flitwick's exam. Harry hears Quirrel sobbing and giving in to someone in a classrom. After Quirrel leaves the room, Harry says he would bet 12 Sorcerers Stones that the other person in the room was Snape. JKR said in an online chat that her favorite chapter out of all the books was Chapter 12, Book 1 (The Mirror of Erised) Book 2 Harry turns 12 years old. After Dobby drops the pudding on the kitchen floor, Harry receives an owl from the Ministry saying that a Hover Charm was used at 12 minutes past 9. When Draco is complaining about Harry, Lucius cuts him off and says he's heard this a dozen times already. There are 12 school governers. Lockhart says there are 12 dwarf cupids roaming around the school delivering Valentines. Lockhart says that in Chapter 12 of his book, Wanderings with Werewolves, he divulges that his ideal birthday gift is to have peace among all creatures. We learn that Bill and Percy both got 12 O.W.L.s. Ron says he wrote to Harry at least 12 times over the Summer. Book 3 Aunt Marge has 12 bulldogs. Sirius escaped from Azkaban after being imprisoned for 12 years. To get his mind off of Aunt Marge's insults, Harry tries to remember page 12 of his book: "A Charm to Cure Reluctant Reverses." Harry's Nimbus 2000 was smashed into a dozen pieces. Fudge says Black murdered 12 muggles and 1 wizard with a single curse. At The Leaky Cauldron, Ron and Percy stay in room #12. Buckbeak's wingspan is said to be 12 meters long. Ron tells everyone when he woke, Sirius was standing over him with a 12 inch knife. Sirius tells Harry he got him the Firebolt because of 12 birthdays without presents. At the Christmas feast, Trelawney counts 12 people at the table and refuses to sit down because she would be thirteen. McGonagall isn't happy when Harry asks about the status of his broom for the 12th time. Sirius tells Lupin to hurry up with the explanation since he's been waiting 12 years to get back at Pettigrew. Book 4 Frank Bryce estimates Nagini to be 12 feet long. While Percy is lamenting about Rita Skeeter's complaints that they should be stamping out vampires instead of quibbling about cauldron thickness, he says: "As if it wasn't specifically stated in chapter 12 of the Guidelines for the Treatment of Non-Wizard Part-Humans--" "By 12 o'clock the next day, Harry's school trunk was packed with his school things and all his most prized possessions." The basilisk fang from Harry's second year is described as being 12 inches long. At the Quidditch World Cup, the Bulgarians insisted on having 12 more seats in the Top Box. Crouch's grandfather used to have a magic carpet that could seat 12. The letter Harry sends Sirius after the first tast is so heavy that when Harry tosses Pigwidgeon out the window with it, he plummets 12 feet before recovering. As Harry is about to enter the Common Room after being picked as School Champion, a dozen hands pull him inside. In the Great Hall at the Yule Ball, instead of the usual four house tables there are 12 smaller tables. "Harry thought of Sirius, and the tight, tense knot in his chest seemed to ease slightly. He would be speaking to him in just over 12 hours." Hagrid tells Harry to meet him at midnight, and to bring that cloak with him. Sirius tells Harry he would need half a dozen wizards at a time to overcome a dragon. Harry, Ron and Hermione bring Sirius a dozen pieces of chicken. While Harry and Ron are making up false predictions for Divination, one of their prediction is that Harry will be stabbed in the back by someone he thought was a friend because Venus is in the 12th house. We learn that Dumbledore has been Hagrid's guardian since he was 12 years old when his dad died. Mundungus Fletcher put in a claim for a 12-bedroom tent with en-suite Jacuzzi. Cedric's wand is 12 inches long. Prof. Binns drones on about the goblin rebellions of 1612. 12 Dumstrang students arrive for the Triwizard Tournament. During the final task, the spider drops Harry 12 feet. Before Harry leaves to get Dumbledore, Crouch tells him that his son Crouch Jr. got 12 O.W.L.s. Book 5 On the American cover there are 12 candles in the foreground. The headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix is located at number 12 Grimmauld Place. Harry had barely run a dozen steps when he reached Dudley and the dementor. Harry thinks it's "galling" to be told not to be rash by someone who had spent 12 years in Azkaban. Harry's disciplinary hearing with the Ministry is on the 12th of August. Sirius explains to Harry that Voldemort is not going to go up against the Ministry with a dozen death eaters. While Bill is asking Harry if he's alright, he's gathering up 12 scrolls at once. Roughly half a dozen of the Wizengamot vote in favor of conviction. One of Snape's homework assignments is 12 inches of parchment on the properties of moonstone and it's uses in potion-making. When Hermione is talking to Harry and Ron in the Great Hall, she glances around and sees a half a dozen empty seats around them. During Harry's detention with Umbridge, he glances out the window to the Quidditch Pitch and sees half a dozen black figures. At midnight, Harry is in the common room when he starts drifting off and almost gets to the door before he's awakened by Dobby. Harry sees Dobby picking up a half a dozen hats that Hermione left. Before Harry first enters Dumbledore's office after seeing the snake bite Mr. Weasley, Harry thinks it sounds like Dumbledore is entertaining at least a dozen people. When the Weasley kids are at Grimmauld Place worrying about their dad, Sirius summons a half a dozen butterbeers. "He was exhausted, he was confused beyond measure, he had experienced terror, relief, and then terror again in the last 12 hours, and still Dumbledore did not want to talk to him." Kingsley asks Mr. Weasley for as much information as possible on flying muggle vehicle sightings in the past 12 months. When they meet Lockhart in St. Mungo's, he says: "Well, how about those autographs then? Shall we make it a round dozen?" Harry is grumpy about having to go back to Hogwarts and place himself under the tyranny of Dolores Umbridge, who had no doubt managed to force through another dozen decrees in their absence. Harry makes a mental note how much more difficult it is to extend his arm 12 inches and touch Cho's hand than to snatch a speeding Snitch from midair. Hermione tells Harry to meet her at 12 o'clock in The Three Broomsticks during Harry's date with Cho. After the article in The Quibbler is published, Trelawney breaks out in tears during one of her classes and exclaims that Harry would not suffer an early death after all, but would live to a ripe old age, become Minister of Magic, and have 12 children. When James disarms Snape, his wand flies 12 feet in the air. Harry says he wasn't the sole witness to Voldemort's rebirth, and that there were a dozen-odd death e
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remiden - Nov 11, 2004 1:12 pm (#1982 of 2923)
and that there were a dozen-odd death eaters there too. There are a dozen doors in the circular room in the Department of Mysteries. When the trio are spread out in the shade of the beech tree near the lake, Ron talks them through his first save of the match for what felt like the dozenth time. In the Care of Magical Creatures O.W.L. the fifth years have to correctly identify a knarl hidden among a dozen hedgehogs. Ron reminds Harry that Hermione got 112% on her Charms exam last year. Ravenclaw sixth year Eddie Carmichael offers Ron and Harry a whole pint of Baruffio's Brain Elixir for 12 galleons. Harry pulls Ron's arm over his shoulder, just as he had done with Dudley months ago, and thinks they have a 1-in-12 chance of getting it right this time. There are a dozen death eaters in the Department of Mysteries. After Fudge sees Voldemort disapparate in the Ministry Atrium, Dumbledore tells him it's time he listened to sense, and he's been chasing the wrong man for 12 months. Dumbledore pulls out his watch with 12 hands and tells Fudge he may have a half-an-hour of his time. Platform 9 3/4 - 9 is 3/4 of 12
Brought o you by mugglenet.
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Her-melanie - Nov 11, 2004 1:16 pm (#1983 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Impressive, just don't post it 12 times.
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Ann - Nov 11, 2004 1:57 pm (#1984 of 2923)
I've been arguing on this thread, from time to time, that the half-blood prince might be a son or grandson of Godric Gryffindor. Somehow, given both the embattled state of the magical community at the time Hogwarts was founded and given Slytherin's apparent prejudices, I think it is a reasonable assumption that all four founders (and probably all the original students) were pure-bloods, and the discord arose when one of their half-blood children or grandchildren was admitted to Hogwarts.
I've been assuming that Gryffindor had a royal background, and that thus it was his son or grandson who was the half-blood prince. But for some reason it just occurred to me with special stress that Hogwarts is a CASTLE. Where you would expect royalty to reside.... On the Four Founders thread, we were discussing a while back the origins of the founders. Based on the Sorting Hat song, Gryffindor is from wild moor (west), Slytherin is from fen (east), Hufflepuff is from valley broad (south), and Ravenclaw is from glen (north). Since Rowena Ravenclaw was from the north, where Hogwarts is, she seems the most likely to have had a castle in her family that no one happened to be using at the time, and donated it to the cause. (I suppose the castle could have been built as a school from the ground up, but as I understand the more recent British tradition, putting a school in someone's former castle or stately mansion is quite common.)
So then I looked up the Scottish royal family on Wikipedia, to determine something about the royal family at around 990, the time Hogwarts is said to be founded. There were actually two of them; they had this truly nutty system ("tanistry") whereby each king before his death designated which man from the other family would succeed him. The relevant king seems to be Kenneth II, king from 971-995. He succeeded a real loser called "Culen the Whelp" (could JKR do better?) who murdered his predecessor and then was himself murdered in revenge for raping the daughter of one of his sub-kings. His predecessor Dubh, had apparently been laid low for a long time by an unknown disease, said to be caused by "the withering power of wicked spells." So we are clearly in anti-magic territory.
Kenneth II was succeeded by the son of Culen the Whelp, Constantine III, who lived only two years and was succeeded by Kenneth II's nephew (and Dubh's son) Kenneth III, who reigned 997-1005. He was succeeded by his cousin Malcom II (which ended of the "tanistry" practice), who was succeeded by Duncan I, murdered by Macbeth. (Macbeth did this on the advice of three witches, thereby ruining his life).
So, I wonder if Rowena Ravenclaw was the daughter of one of these kings. The only woman mentioned is Princess Gruoch, the grandaughter of Kenneth III, who married Macbeth and became the fabled Lady MacBeth. Perhaps Rowena was another strong-minded princess of this period, and one of her sons or grandsons became the Half-Blood Prince.
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strix - Nov 11, 2004 2:30 pm (#1985 of 2923)
I hardly dare to mention this, but "Dubh" means "Black". The mind boggles with possible repercussions...
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Madame Librarian - Nov 11, 2004 3:53 pm (#1986 of 2923)
Well, I'm not good with maths either apparently. Sorry about the '913' miscalculation. I did post more info (accurate, I hope since it's right from the Lex) on the "Not Covered in Other Threads" thread.
Oh, I know what I did wrong! It was a typo--their address is 93 Diagon Alley. That adds up to 12. Whew! I'm not quite so challenged as I thought. Oh, dear, horribly off-topic though. Sorry.
Ciao. Barb
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Eliza - Nov 11, 2004 8:37 pm (#1987 of 2923)
Well Strix- several posts back I had proposed the idea that Black had a child that his muggle spouse/lover was pregnant for when everything went down with Harry and Voldemort. This would put the child about 2 years behind Harry. Which would mean he would have joined Hogwarts in the PoA. He probably will find out he is Black's son in HBP. This would add conflict as he would be Sirius' rightful heir and would therefore inherit #12 Gimwald Place instead of Harry. And he would be the son that Harry considered himself to be to Sirius. It would make Harry torn between jealously and pity toward him. Harry would feel bad that like himself, this boy would never know his own father. Also, I think the Theodore Nott being the HBP is pretty must out because JK states that Nott is a pure-blood in the edits part of her extra stuff section on her website.
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strix - Nov 12, 2004 2:32 am (#1988 of 2923)
Hm, but that would make for an "illegitimate" child, for wouldn't Sirius have mentioned if had had been married, however briefly? Anyway, if he had been married, the child would probably bear the name "Black", and Sirius would certainly have contacted a wife somehow when he was free. But then again, why not? Sirius was a wild character and could easily have fathered a child he never knew about. Stuff happens.
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Eliza - Nov 12, 2004 9:43 am (#1989 of 2923)
I think if she does exist, then he would have felt that in his predicament that he would have endangered her by contacting her. Remember he was still wanted by the Ministery when he died. Only now with Voldemort's return being public knowledge can his name be cleared. That is why the mother would finally tell her son the true origins of his birth. I would bet on illegitimaticy and therefore the child would hold a different name. I also feel that Sirius would have married her if he had known she carried his child.
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Catherine - Nov 12, 2004 2:10 pm (#1990 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
JKR said at the Edinburgh Book Festival that Sirius did not marry.
I really don't think that JKR's books will include an illegitimate child.
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Annika - Nov 12, 2004 2:15 pm (#1991 of 2923)
I agree, I do not see Sirius having an heir.
Catherine, due to your avatar, my mind is racing with all the cannon references in the HP books:)
Annika
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remiden - Nov 13, 2004 12:08 am (#1992 of 2923)
Harry is safe from Voldemort where his mother's blood resides. He is safe there because his mother died to save him. Has anyone considered that his father died to save him as well, and while their house was blown up, there may still be property elsewhere that Harry could be safe?
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Catherine - Nov 13, 2004 5:55 am (#1993 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
That's a good point about James, Remiden, except that I don't think that the property, per se, is what provides the protection. Also, JKR has said that Harry has no other relatives.
I'd like to see this thread discuss the HBP.
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Eliza - Nov 13, 2004 11:09 am (#1994 of 2923)
Catherine you are probably right. I guess I really can't see JK going there. She seems to teach a lot of morals in her books and I am sure she knows that her books are used in classrooms, so I don't really think she would touch on the illegitimacy issue. That was the one gaping hole I had every time I thought about my theory. But it was the only way I could think of that the child's identity would be unknown. Oh well I guess the threads unravel.............
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Hogs Head - Nov 13, 2004 11:13 am (#1995 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Can someone please give me an educated guess -- a date to begin re-reading HP Books 1-5 so that I will be just finished a day or so before my pre-ordered copy (copies) of HP6 lands on my doorstep via UPS or FedEx? If we have insufficient data at this time to know, that's an okay answer.
In addition to other re-read efforts (and although I'm usually a "rapid reader"), I've made a practice of reading each (and every one of the) prior volume(s) v e r y _ s l o w l y before each new book comes out. However, I hate to leave too much of a gap between finishing the re-read of the old volumes and starting the new. (Otherwise, forgetful me, I have to start over -- although I've certainly done that enough.) I rushed the process before Book 5 came out because I didn't allow enough time for a slow read, counting too much on my ability to read while travelling. Excessive turbulence en route to Copenhagen from the U.S. ruined that plan.
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WeasleyKing - Nov 13, 2004 11:27 am (#1996 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP is DD. We know very little about his past. I just can't help but think DD is connected to Fawkes somehow. Perhaps we should look at "half blood" at a new angle. ...So many possibilities...
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Catherine - Nov 13, 2004 11:47 am (#1997 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Hogs Head,
From chatting informally with other Forum members and hosts, we all seem to think that HBP will be released in late spring/early summer. We may be deluding ourselves out of our intense desire for this book, but that's what we think.
It makes sense to me that JKR overhauled her site last June in preparation for a one year countdown to the book's release. A June release would also fit the pattern her books have shown in the past.
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 13, 2004 11:48 am (#1998 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Hogs Head - I can't speak for everyone and it wouldn't surprize me if everybody knows but I haven't been told. But, I do not have the slightest idea when it will be coming out. It should be released given prior history about 4 to 6 months after the announcement that the book has been released to the publishers. Unfortunately we don't have any idea when that announcement will be given.
So join the rest of us as we continue to discuss all of the possibilities.
Mikie
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Catherine - Nov 13, 2004 2:51 pm (#1999 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Let me make it clear that my previous post was pure speculation. There has been no formal announcement.
I do believe it likely that HBP will be out in June.
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Hogs Head - Nov 13, 2004 3:29 pm (#2000 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Thanks. Now I'll join the waiting party, too.
FYI, I notice a small town in Georgia (state in the U.S, not a neighbor of Russia) is celebrating a 1,000 pound hog nicknamed, "Hogzilla."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's great. Something to aim for. Sadly, they are celebrating the death of Hogzilla, so I'll try to avoid that part.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
" . . . (Neville's) Grans, she is described as holding out her hand regally. . . . I am not sure if it points to the Weasley's or Neville, but I thought it was interesting (especially considering the mysterious gum wrapper incident that follows.)" Annika
I've wondered about the gum wrapper also. Didn't Grans say that Neville had enough gum wrappers to paper the walls of his room then Neville discreetly pockets the gum wrapper. My son thought it wasn't important. But, JKR seems to give little clues that resurface with more meaning latter. Harry talked to a snake while at the zoo in Book 1 then it's later revealed that he's a Parseltongue. Harry and Voldermort have Fawkes' feather as the core of their wands then in the Graveyard the wands lock because the wands are brothers.
I'd be more inclined to have Neville turn out to be the HBP than Draco. Neville is also tied to the Prophecy, both Harry and Neville were "born as the seventh month dies" but only Harry is "marked" by Voldermort. ;-) GC
PS There's always Trevor. ;-) GC
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Betelgeuse Black - Nov 6, 2004 7:35 pm (#1952 of 2923)
One problem with Neville being the HBP is that he's pure-blooded. Dumbledore says so in the OotP. Of course, I have argued that the prince does not have to be half-blood, but it fits the implications better.
Betegeuse
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Margaret Richardson - Nov 7, 2004 6:07 pm (#1953 of 2923)
I've also wondered about Neville being the HBP, simply because of his connection with Harry and the prophecy. Also, in OotP he changes quite a bit and seems to find new strength and purpose. What if the prophecy was meant for Neville and not Harry after all? Why would the DE have gone after the Longbottoms to find out what had happened to Voldemort after he lost his powers? I assume that they and the Potter's were marked by Voldemort because of their sons' birthdays!
I also agree with Gerald, that the title HBP may be symbolic of his moral stand, rather than his linage.
The one thing I really hope it's not (not this late in the story anyway) is that it's a new character that we have to get to know. I would prefer it to be one of the current characters, just because I feel the impact of finding out will mean more if it's someone we already know. We may not like who that is, but we will have more of an emotional response to it. Just my feeling on it anyway.
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Eliza - Aug 22, 2004 10:25 am (#1954 of 2923)
We say that Neville is a pure blood because his parents are a witch and a wizard and his father's family are magical. However, I do not think we have ever heard anything about Neville's grandparents on his mother's side. Harry is considered half-blood,even though his parents were a witch and a wizard,because his mother's parents were muggles. If Neville's grandparents on his mother's side turn out to be muggles, that would explain several things: 1. Why Neville lives with his father's family 2. Why Neville says"... the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages..."PS/SS p.125 He did not say "the family thought I was a squib", which obviously is not a dirty word in the magical world because Ms. Figg calls herself a squib at the beginning of OoP. 3. Why Neville always seems to feel infere to his father and yet does not seem to metion feeling infere to his mother. 4. Why his mother is obsessed with gum wrappers(Gum seems to be a muggle thing, not a wizarding world thing. Also, this would add yet another similarity between Neville and Harry. Uh-Oh I just became a Neville is the HBP fan. Oh Well. Things change.
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Star Crossed - Nov 7, 2004 8:11 pm (#1955 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Why Neville says"... the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages..."PS/SS p.125 He did not say "the family thought I was a squib", which obviously is not a dirty word in the magical world because Ms. Figg calls herself a squib at the beginning of OoP.
I think the reason of this is that JKR didn't want to get into what a squib is until CoS. She'd have to explain what it was before it's time to shine.
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emma bailey - Nov 7, 2004 10:49 pm (#1956 of 2923)
I thought that JKR said that Nevilles was a pure blood. Matter a fact I sure I read that some where. You know who I think the HBP is Theodore Not. I keep reading that he lives whith his dad who is a DE. You never hear anything about his mother.
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emma bailey - Nov 7, 2004 10:54 pm (#1957 of 2923)
Ah, I can just read it now. Theo's Mum was killed by his dad, to show his loyity to LV, or maybe they are hiding her for this reason. you never can tell. JKR Rocks.
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Ann - Nov 8, 2004 9:22 am (#1958 of 2923)
Dumbledore (who presumably knows) says explicitly that Neville is a pure-blood when he describes Voldemort's choice to go after Harry: He says that Voldemort has chosen the half-blood, like himself, over the pure-blood (which he presumably claims to believe is better). So I don't think Neville can be the HBP.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 8, 2004 5:01 pm (#1959 of 2923)
This quote:
"...the family thought I was all-Muggle for ages..." (PS/SS p.125)
has been analyzed six ways to Sunday on the Forum for ages and ages. I do believe that Eliza and Star Crossed have touched upon a truly wonderful explanation for using "all-Muggle" as opposed to "Squib."
It is indeed something to do with Alice's forebears. We know from Gran that Frank's side is pureblood, but, Eliza's right, I think, Gran doesn't say much or anything at all about Alice's side. Hmmmm. Did she have a bit of a prejudice herself, and disapprove of the marriage a little? Was it because Alice was half-blood? Did Neville's family (all from the Longbottom side) keep testing his magical ability because of a belief (mistaken) that a half-blood heritage on one side might be more likely to produce a Squib. Did they use the term "Muggle" as a somewhat disparaging reference to a Muggle relative? They were being facetious, of course, but the "all-Muggle" was in contrast to just part Muggle which is another way of saying half-blood, though wizards generally don't use it.
So, I don't think Neville is the HBP, but based on this supposition, he could be, I think.
Eliza and Star Crossed, take 10 points each!
BTW--If someone does know of a canon quote about Neville that clears up Alice's lineage, please let us know, because, of course, it would quash this bit quite well.
Ciao. Barb
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Eponine - Nov 8, 2004 6:13 pm (#1960 of 2923)
CoS UK paperback p. 139 "Neville Longbottom bought a large, evil-smelling green onion, a pointed purple crystal and a rotting newt-tail before the other Gryffindor boys pointed out that he was in no danger: he was a pure-blood, and therefore unlikely to be attacked."
OotP UK hardback p. 742 "And notice this, Harry: he chose, not the pure-blood (which, according to his creed, is the only kind of wizard worth being or knowing) but the half-blood, like himself."
Hope that helps, Barb!
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Snuffles - Nov 9, 2004 1:56 am (#1961 of 2923)
Olivia
Hi everyone this is my first post on this thread.
Im not sure if anyone has suggested it before so im sorry if they have but has anyone thought that Dumbledore might be the half blood prince. Does it state anywhere that he is pure blood? its just with him making comments that it doesnt matter whether someone is pure blood or muggle born but how they grow up and what paths they choose. I got to thinking so i thought i would ask on the forum because im sure someone will be able to put me straight if its been discussed before.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 9, 2004 9:30 am (#1962 of 2923)
Eponine, thanks for showing us the right stuff when it comes to poor Neville. Well, there's another elegant theory shot to pieces [sigh].
Ciao. Barb
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emma bailey - Nov 9, 2004 9:30 am (#1963 of 2923)
Good thought.
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emma bailey - Nov 9, 2004 9:32 am (#1964 of 2923)
Just maybe it is Theo Nott. She never did say any thing about his mom.
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Loopy Lupin - Nov 9, 2004 9:48 am (#1965 of 2923)
Perhaps the "all-Muggle" comment has a more simple explanation. Wasn't the concept of a "squib" introduced in COS? So, either JKR hadn't really named the idea yet in PS/SS or she just didn't want to get into that whole explanation at the time. "Muggle" was a term the reader had just been introduced to, so it was just easier to say "all-Muggle" without getting into the squib explanation.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 9, 2004 9:53 am (#1966 of 2923)
Well, this is going to be an awkward idea to post (dungbombs ready everyone?), but what if DD made a mistake about Neville? He made such a point of telling Harry that the kid is pure-blood. Sometimes when JKR repeats things or stresses them, we find out later that it was either something we should have remembered and maybe a clue. But what if we're going to discover this crafty author also uses this as a way to highlight that the "fact" stated was...um...wrong? DD has admitted that he's made mistakes before, mostly in his treatment of Harry and how much information he should be told about his history (and future), but what if there are others?
OK, here's the awkward part: On post #2893 on the JKR (I) site, Remiden asked the simple question if anyone has considered the fact that the first syllable of DD's name is "dumb." [**ducks as first dungbomb hits wall behind her**] Does DD have a teensy bit of selective dumbness, especially when it comes to his beloved students and Order members?
After all this effort to theorize at great risk to self, I still don't think Neville is the HBP. Sheesh!
[**skedaddles off the thread quickly as the nasty missiles come a-flying]
Ciao. Barb
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Annika - Nov 9, 2004 10:05 am (#1967 of 2923)
Madame Librarian, One of the definitions for "dumb" is "temporarily speechless, as from fear; an unwillingness to talk." I think this is a very fitting definition of Dumbledore.
DD has many secrets, a few of which he has now shared (to some extent), but many which he has not. People follow DD, almost blindly, trusting in him though he withholds crucial details. So I think your theory is quite good.
As for Neville, I am torn. I had mentioned (on some thread or other) the scene from Christmas on the Closed Ward were Grans Longbottom holds out her hand "regally" toward the Weasleys (Ron & Ginny). I agree as pure bloods, neither Ron nor Neville fit the criteria of being the HBP, but then again …
Annika
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Cliodne - Nov 9, 2004 6:40 pm (#1968 of 2923)
about the title, HP and the half-blood prince, prince of what? are there royalties in the wizarding world?
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emma bailey - Nov 9, 2004 7:57 pm (#1969 of 2923)
What about Theo Nott?
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emilythestrangew - Nov 9, 2004 8:13 pm (#1970 of 2923)
Has anyone heard any rumors or truths about when the book is coming out??
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remiden - Nov 9, 2004 11:12 pm (#1971 of 2923)
I read on another site a very interesting theory about the prophecy that may have to do with the HBP or Theodore Nott, or I at least believe that the prophecy is about three people, not just two. The poster stated that when Trelawney gives the prophecies, her voice becomes raspy and strained. Is it possible that Dumbledore misunderstood what she was saying? Could she have said this...
(Original Prophecy)
The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches ... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies ... and the Dark Lord will mark him as equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not ... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives ...
In two lines there, it says But he will have the power the Dark Lord knows not....
but could it be read as But he will have the power. The Dark Lord knows Nott.....
In the last line could it be instead of And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives.....
be this.... And either must die at the hand of Theodore for neither can live while Theodore survives....
I believe that she either said Theodore and Dumbledore mistook it for th other, or that the reference to the other is about another person entirely. I know this might have been posted in the prophecy forum, but I really didn't feel like reading 350 posts tonight just to post this.
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Saud - Nov 9, 2004 11:29 pm (#1972 of 2923)
Amazing.
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Ann - Nov 9, 2004 11:50 pm (#1973 of 2923)
remiden, you might have searched the Prophecy thread for "Theodore" and "Nott," but I don't think it's been suggested.
Very, very clever and sneaky, your idea, and I wouldn't put it past JKR for a minute. However, I've got two objections: First, to make it work, you would have to pronounce Theodore "The-o-dore," rather than the normal "The-o-dore." That would be pretty weird. More importantly, though, it has the same problem that all the three-person interpretations have: The second clause is supposed to explain the first: "Either must die at the hand of Theodore, for neither can live while Theodore survives" simply doesn't make sense: if Theodore's survival keeps both from living, I can see why they would both have to kill Theodore, but I can see no reason why it would constitute a good reason for Theodore to kill them.
But...wow! You should post this on the Prophecy thread!
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Gerald Costales - Nov 10, 2004 7:14 am (#1974 of 2923)
"but could it be read as But he will have the power. The Dark Lord knows Nott....." also
"be this.... And either must die at the hand of Theodore for neither can live while Theodore survives....
I believe that she either said Theodore and Dumbledore mistook it for th other, or that the reference to the other is about another person entirely." remiden
I just posted these two parts of remiden's original post. Basically we have "not" vs. "Nott" and "of the other" vs. "of The-odore". Harry sees and hears the Prophecy in Dumbledore's pensieve, so I don't think we are just basing the Prophecy on only Dumbledore's interpretation of the Prophecy.
I think the "not vs. Nott" part could be a possibility. But, the "of the other" vs. "of The-odore" part is a bit of a stretch. A third person whether Theodore Nott or Neville maybe part of the Prophecy. But, Harry is still the "One" marked by the Dark Lord. And Dumbledore does exclude Neville as the "One" because Neville isn't marked by the Dark Lord.
Great twist on the Prophecy. Only Book 6 & 7 will prove whose right at this point. ;-) GC
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 10, 2004 8:03 am (#1975 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I like that idea remiden but I keep thinking what JKR said about her and Trelawney phasing the prophecy very carefully. I don't think JKR would emphasis the wording and then throw a major revision to the actual words of the prophecy.
Mikie
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Denise S. - Nov 10, 2004 8:50 am (#1976 of 2923)
We are not a cult, we're just slightly obsessed and mentally unstable. There's a difference. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I agree, Mickey Cee, especially since if someone was important enough to be in the Prophecy, they would have gotten much more plot time by now.
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Hawthorn Wycke - Nov 11, 2004 3:25 am (#1977 of 2923)
Dear Joe, J.K. Rowling, Mrs. Neil Murray, as I put quill to paper at the 11th hour, of the 11th day of the eleventh month because I have just one question – what is the significance of the number eleven?
Is the number 11 a primer to your books? Or is it yours and Harry’s birthday added together (July 31 = 7+3+1 = 11)? Mine is a day before and several years after, as I was surprised to find that I shared with Neville Longbottom. Poor Neville to be born as the seventh month dies as a double Leo sun to feel the intensity ten (11) times more than anyone else, spend sleepless nights within Ford’s innovation under a Scorpio moon and possess a regal honor that few will understand. Hermione seems to be more of a Libra than a Virgo, but it’s a good thing she wasn’t born on September 11th (9/11); although we are told that Ginny was born on August 11th which is perhaps more of a hint to those who don’t understand what romance is conjured within the books. Still, it was disappointing at jkrowling.com to enter in the word e-l-e-v-e-n on the mobile to not have it become a portkey. I’m betting Draco is a Scorpio, which is just a land-lobster that’s very nice in butter once you remove the tail, but I don’t set much store in astrology. Astronomy, however, tells us that the second sun could have been Jupiter but it wasn’t big enough to become a sun; still we wonder if the additional mass of asteroids impacting its surface will one day make it so.
Where was I? Ah yes, Harry was 11 years old when he was accepted into Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry and his vault at Gringotts was 713 (again adding up to 11) to purchase his Holly 11’ wand in the beginning of the Stone (SS or PS), then no mention of it in the Chamber of Secrets (CoS) except for missing the train at 11 o’clock on Platform 9-3/4. Are we picking daisy petals here as - yes 11, no 11 throughout the Harry Potter series? Will 11 be the undoing of it all or will it be the savior at the 11th hour?
As we get back on track with the 11 primer in the Prisoner of Azkaban (PoA) with Harry paying 11 sickles to ride the Knight Bus and reside in Room 11 at the Leaky Cauldron. Then further in his journey his godfather, Sirius Black, takes money out of his own vault 711 to buy Harry a new Firebolt broom for Christmas. Seven-eleven (711), were you being funny or where you having writer’s block on the western seaboard of North America craving a stop for a Big Gulp and some gum? For I am not a writer but I dearly love coffee; but to get back to the books…
There again, the number 11 appears not to us in the Goblet of Fire (GoF) unless you count the wands of Harry and his father, James Potter, who had a mahogany 11’ wand if I’m not mistaken. Finally, but not the last, Ron Weasley’s is gifted a new Cleansweep 11 by becoming a prefect in Order of the Phoenix (OoP) while attending with Harry, Firenze’s new professorship in Classroom 11.
Incidentally, the Scottish people ARE NOT British, nor are they English, as they are separate ethnic tribes. It’s like the Centaur’s said, the Scottish are an ancient people, “a race apart, and proud to be so.” It is uniquely interesting that a modern writer could earn a living basing Hogwarts on Edinburgh Castle where King James of the New Testament Bible put to death thousands of impoverish people by extreme torture for witchcraft, but then again, as he upheld the policy of his predecessors to “turned the other cheek” towards the Englishmen who put Jeanne d’Arc to death for the same when she tried to free her own people at the precious age of 19 years old. Still, these days and those, the Scottish people would be more willing to accept that which is not their own, if one would only reply “aye” instead of “yes” while in Scotland – out of respect that they endured the persecution, XXX (not kisses), murder, torture, deportation, desecration of tombstones, unfair trade restrictions (don’t believe me? Try to spend anything that has the Bank of Scotland on it in England) and the silent invasion of modern times that has been imposed upon the Scottish people for millenniums just for standing up for their rights of self-determination.
Nevertheless, it is entirely possible that the number eleven is just J.K. Rowling’s favorite number. However, it would appear to be true that she is an idealist, artist, highly energized inspiration that the number 11 symbolizes the principle of enlightenment. Numerology will declare me as a one but my favorite number has always been 3, so I put no stock into it, but perhaps Rowling should write 11 books total.
Ah well. Keep up the good work, plant lavender by your roses and say “aye” whenever possible.
Thank you for your time and please talk amongst yourselves so maybe we’ll get an answer.
Wishing wands, Hawthorne Wycke (via message board)
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Madame Librarian - Nov 11, 2004 8:53 am (#1978 of 2923)
Hawthorne Wycke, I'm not sure I understand all of your historical references to Scotland, etc., but the no. 11 stuff was interesting. Have you noticed that no. 12 also figures greatly in the story?
Here are just a few references (I am at work, and these are what come off the top of my head):
12 Grimmauld Place
913--address of the Weasley twins' joke shop, adds up to 12
12 slots on the clock at the Burrow; DD's watch, too, has 12 spaces
12 signs of the Zodiac
I know there are more. In fact, I will search the forum and the Lexicon to see if I can dredge up others. However, this is off-topic since this is the HP6 thread, so I may post on a different thread (probably "Not Covered in Other Threads"). Keep a watch for it.
Ciao. Barb
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Steve Newton - Nov 11, 2004 11:08 am (#1979 of 2923)
Librarian
Um, 913 actually adds up to 13.
13 is a very bad number in the series.
There are also 12 good guys at the battle of the MOM. DAs, 5 OOTP, and Dumbledore.
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emilythestrangew - Nov 11, 2004 12:38 pm (#1980 of 2923)
Has anyone heard about when it's supposed to come out?
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remiden - Nov 11, 2004 1:05 pm (#1981 of 2923)
Book 1 Dumbledore uses his Put-Outer to extinguish the 12 street lamps on Privet Drive. Dumbledore's watch has 12 hands. The milkman delivers two dozen letter-filled eggs to the Dursley's. On Friday, 12 letters arrive for Harry. Hagrid is described as being at least twice the height of a normal man. If a normal man is around 6 feet tall, that would make Hagrid approximately 12 feet tall. The troll Quirrel let in on Halloween was 12 feet tall. During the flying lesson, it says Neville originally rises to 12 feet. The Wizards Duel with Draco was supposed to happen at midnight. At the first Quidditch Match, Neville tells Draco he's worth 12 of him. There are 12 Christmas trees in the Great Hall. Dumbledore is famous for discovering the 12 uses of Dragon's blood. At exactly 12:00 AM Harry turns 11, and Hagrid bangs on the door. Shortly before the trio leaves to go through the trapdoor, Hermione says that she won't get kicked out because she got 112 percent on Flitwick's exam. Harry hears Quirrel sobbing and giving in to someone in a classrom. After Quirrel leaves the room, Harry says he would bet 12 Sorcerers Stones that the other person in the room was Snape. JKR said in an online chat that her favorite chapter out of all the books was Chapter 12, Book 1 (The Mirror of Erised) Book 2 Harry turns 12 years old. After Dobby drops the pudding on the kitchen floor, Harry receives an owl from the Ministry saying that a Hover Charm was used at 12 minutes past 9. When Draco is complaining about Harry, Lucius cuts him off and says he's heard this a dozen times already. There are 12 school governers. Lockhart says there are 12 dwarf cupids roaming around the school delivering Valentines. Lockhart says that in Chapter 12 of his book, Wanderings with Werewolves, he divulges that his ideal birthday gift is to have peace among all creatures. We learn that Bill and Percy both got 12 O.W.L.s. Ron says he wrote to Harry at least 12 times over the Summer. Book 3 Aunt Marge has 12 bulldogs. Sirius escaped from Azkaban after being imprisoned for 12 years. To get his mind off of Aunt Marge's insults, Harry tries to remember page 12 of his book: "A Charm to Cure Reluctant Reverses." Harry's Nimbus 2000 was smashed into a dozen pieces. Fudge says Black murdered 12 muggles and 1 wizard with a single curse. At The Leaky Cauldron, Ron and Percy stay in room #12. Buckbeak's wingspan is said to be 12 meters long. Ron tells everyone when he woke, Sirius was standing over him with a 12 inch knife. Sirius tells Harry he got him the Firebolt because of 12 birthdays without presents. At the Christmas feast, Trelawney counts 12 people at the table and refuses to sit down because she would be thirteen. McGonagall isn't happy when Harry asks about the status of his broom for the 12th time. Sirius tells Lupin to hurry up with the explanation since he's been waiting 12 years to get back at Pettigrew. Book 4 Frank Bryce estimates Nagini to be 12 feet long. While Percy is lamenting about Rita Skeeter's complaints that they should be stamping out vampires instead of quibbling about cauldron thickness, he says: "As if it wasn't specifically stated in chapter 12 of the Guidelines for the Treatment of Non-Wizard Part-Humans--" "By 12 o'clock the next day, Harry's school trunk was packed with his school things and all his most prized possessions." The basilisk fang from Harry's second year is described as being 12 inches long. At the Quidditch World Cup, the Bulgarians insisted on having 12 more seats in the Top Box. Crouch's grandfather used to have a magic carpet that could seat 12. The letter Harry sends Sirius after the first tast is so heavy that when Harry tosses Pigwidgeon out the window with it, he plummets 12 feet before recovering. As Harry is about to enter the Common Room after being picked as School Champion, a dozen hands pull him inside. In the Great Hall at the Yule Ball, instead of the usual four house tables there are 12 smaller tables. "Harry thought of Sirius, and the tight, tense knot in his chest seemed to ease slightly. He would be speaking to him in just over 12 hours." Hagrid tells Harry to meet him at midnight, and to bring that cloak with him. Sirius tells Harry he would need half a dozen wizards at a time to overcome a dragon. Harry, Ron and Hermione bring Sirius a dozen pieces of chicken. While Harry and Ron are making up false predictions for Divination, one of their prediction is that Harry will be stabbed in the back by someone he thought was a friend because Venus is in the 12th house. We learn that Dumbledore has been Hagrid's guardian since he was 12 years old when his dad died. Mundungus Fletcher put in a claim for a 12-bedroom tent with en-suite Jacuzzi. Cedric's wand is 12 inches long. Prof. Binns drones on about the goblin rebellions of 1612. 12 Dumstrang students arrive for the Triwizard Tournament. During the final task, the spider drops Harry 12 feet. Before Harry leaves to get Dumbledore, Crouch tells him that his son Crouch Jr. got 12 O.W.L.s. Book 5 On the American cover there are 12 candles in the foreground. The headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix is located at number 12 Grimmauld Place. Harry had barely run a dozen steps when he reached Dudley and the dementor. Harry thinks it's "galling" to be told not to be rash by someone who had spent 12 years in Azkaban. Harry's disciplinary hearing with the Ministry is on the 12th of August. Sirius explains to Harry that Voldemort is not going to go up against the Ministry with a dozen death eaters. While Bill is asking Harry if he's alright, he's gathering up 12 scrolls at once. Roughly half a dozen of the Wizengamot vote in favor of conviction. One of Snape's homework assignments is 12 inches of parchment on the properties of moonstone and it's uses in potion-making. When Hermione is talking to Harry and Ron in the Great Hall, she glances around and sees a half a dozen empty seats around them. During Harry's detention with Umbridge, he glances out the window to the Quidditch Pitch and sees half a dozen black figures. At midnight, Harry is in the common room when he starts drifting off and almost gets to the door before he's awakened by Dobby. Harry sees Dobby picking up a half a dozen hats that Hermione left. Before Harry first enters Dumbledore's office after seeing the snake bite Mr. Weasley, Harry thinks it sounds like Dumbledore is entertaining at least a dozen people. When the Weasley kids are at Grimmauld Place worrying about their dad, Sirius summons a half a dozen butterbeers. "He was exhausted, he was confused beyond measure, he had experienced terror, relief, and then terror again in the last 12 hours, and still Dumbledore did not want to talk to him." Kingsley asks Mr. Weasley for as much information as possible on flying muggle vehicle sightings in the past 12 months. When they meet Lockhart in St. Mungo's, he says: "Well, how about those autographs then? Shall we make it a round dozen?" Harry is grumpy about having to go back to Hogwarts and place himself under the tyranny of Dolores Umbridge, who had no doubt managed to force through another dozen decrees in their absence. Harry makes a mental note how much more difficult it is to extend his arm 12 inches and touch Cho's hand than to snatch a speeding Snitch from midair. Hermione tells Harry to meet her at 12 o'clock in The Three Broomsticks during Harry's date with Cho. After the article in The Quibbler is published, Trelawney breaks out in tears during one of her classes and exclaims that Harry would not suffer an early death after all, but would live to a ripe old age, become Minister of Magic, and have 12 children. When James disarms Snape, his wand flies 12 feet in the air. Harry says he wasn't the sole witness to Voldemort's rebirth, and that there were a dozen-odd death e
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remiden - Nov 11, 2004 1:12 pm (#1982 of 2923)
and that there were a dozen-odd death eaters there too. There are a dozen doors in the circular room in the Department of Mysteries. When the trio are spread out in the shade of the beech tree near the lake, Ron talks them through his first save of the match for what felt like the dozenth time. In the Care of Magical Creatures O.W.L. the fifth years have to correctly identify a knarl hidden among a dozen hedgehogs. Ron reminds Harry that Hermione got 112% on her Charms exam last year. Ravenclaw sixth year Eddie Carmichael offers Ron and Harry a whole pint of Baruffio's Brain Elixir for 12 galleons. Harry pulls Ron's arm over his shoulder, just as he had done with Dudley months ago, and thinks they have a 1-in-12 chance of getting it right this time. There are a dozen death eaters in the Department of Mysteries. After Fudge sees Voldemort disapparate in the Ministry Atrium, Dumbledore tells him it's time he listened to sense, and he's been chasing the wrong man for 12 months. Dumbledore pulls out his watch with 12 hands and tells Fudge he may have a half-an-hour of his time. Platform 9 3/4 - 9 is 3/4 of 12
Brought o you by mugglenet.
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Her-melanie - Nov 11, 2004 1:16 pm (#1983 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Impressive, just don't post it 12 times.
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Ann - Nov 11, 2004 1:57 pm (#1984 of 2923)
I've been arguing on this thread, from time to time, that the half-blood prince might be a son or grandson of Godric Gryffindor. Somehow, given both the embattled state of the magical community at the time Hogwarts was founded and given Slytherin's apparent prejudices, I think it is a reasonable assumption that all four founders (and probably all the original students) were pure-bloods, and the discord arose when one of their half-blood children or grandchildren was admitted to Hogwarts.
I've been assuming that Gryffindor had a royal background, and that thus it was his son or grandson who was the half-blood prince. But for some reason it just occurred to me with special stress that Hogwarts is a CASTLE. Where you would expect royalty to reside.... On the Four Founders thread, we were discussing a while back the origins of the founders. Based on the Sorting Hat song, Gryffindor is from wild moor (west), Slytherin is from fen (east), Hufflepuff is from valley broad (south), and Ravenclaw is from glen (north). Since Rowena Ravenclaw was from the north, where Hogwarts is, she seems the most likely to have had a castle in her family that no one happened to be using at the time, and donated it to the cause. (I suppose the castle could have been built as a school from the ground up, but as I understand the more recent British tradition, putting a school in someone's former castle or stately mansion is quite common.)
So then I looked up the Scottish royal family on Wikipedia, to determine something about the royal family at around 990, the time Hogwarts is said to be founded. There were actually two of them; they had this truly nutty system ("tanistry") whereby each king before his death designated which man from the other family would succeed him. The relevant king seems to be Kenneth II, king from 971-995. He succeeded a real loser called "Culen the Whelp" (could JKR do better?) who murdered his predecessor and then was himself murdered in revenge for raping the daughter of one of his sub-kings. His predecessor Dubh, had apparently been laid low for a long time by an unknown disease, said to be caused by "the withering power of wicked spells." So we are clearly in anti-magic territory.
Kenneth II was succeeded by the son of Culen the Whelp, Constantine III, who lived only two years and was succeeded by Kenneth II's nephew (and Dubh's son) Kenneth III, who reigned 997-1005. He was succeeded by his cousin Malcom II (which ended of the "tanistry" practice), who was succeeded by Duncan I, murdered by Macbeth. (Macbeth did this on the advice of three witches, thereby ruining his life).
So, I wonder if Rowena Ravenclaw was the daughter of one of these kings. The only woman mentioned is Princess Gruoch, the grandaughter of Kenneth III, who married Macbeth and became the fabled Lady MacBeth. Perhaps Rowena was another strong-minded princess of this period, and one of her sons or grandsons became the Half-Blood Prince.
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strix - Nov 11, 2004 2:30 pm (#1985 of 2923)
I hardly dare to mention this, but "Dubh" means "Black". The mind boggles with possible repercussions...
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Madame Librarian - Nov 11, 2004 3:53 pm (#1986 of 2923)
Well, I'm not good with maths either apparently. Sorry about the '913' miscalculation. I did post more info (accurate, I hope since it's right from the Lex) on the "Not Covered in Other Threads" thread.
Oh, I know what I did wrong! It was a typo--their address is 93 Diagon Alley. That adds up to 12. Whew! I'm not quite so challenged as I thought. Oh, dear, horribly off-topic though. Sorry.
Ciao. Barb
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Eliza - Nov 11, 2004 8:37 pm (#1987 of 2923)
Well Strix- several posts back I had proposed the idea that Black had a child that his muggle spouse/lover was pregnant for when everything went down with Harry and Voldemort. This would put the child about 2 years behind Harry. Which would mean he would have joined Hogwarts in the PoA. He probably will find out he is Black's son in HBP. This would add conflict as he would be Sirius' rightful heir and would therefore inherit #12 Gimwald Place instead of Harry. And he would be the son that Harry considered himself to be to Sirius. It would make Harry torn between jealously and pity toward him. Harry would feel bad that like himself, this boy would never know his own father. Also, I think the Theodore Nott being the HBP is pretty must out because JK states that Nott is a pure-blood in the edits part of her extra stuff section on her website.
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strix - Nov 12, 2004 2:32 am (#1988 of 2923)
Hm, but that would make for an "illegitimate" child, for wouldn't Sirius have mentioned if had had been married, however briefly? Anyway, if he had been married, the child would probably bear the name "Black", and Sirius would certainly have contacted a wife somehow when he was free. But then again, why not? Sirius was a wild character and could easily have fathered a child he never knew about. Stuff happens.
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Eliza - Nov 12, 2004 9:43 am (#1989 of 2923)
I think if she does exist, then he would have felt that in his predicament that he would have endangered her by contacting her. Remember he was still wanted by the Ministery when he died. Only now with Voldemort's return being public knowledge can his name be cleared. That is why the mother would finally tell her son the true origins of his birth. I would bet on illegitimaticy and therefore the child would hold a different name. I also feel that Sirius would have married her if he had known she carried his child.
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Catherine - Nov 12, 2004 2:10 pm (#1990 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
JKR said at the Edinburgh Book Festival that Sirius did not marry.
I really don't think that JKR's books will include an illegitimate child.
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Annika - Nov 12, 2004 2:15 pm (#1991 of 2923)
I agree, I do not see Sirius having an heir.
Catherine, due to your avatar, my mind is racing with all the cannon references in the HP books:)
Annika
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remiden - Nov 13, 2004 12:08 am (#1992 of 2923)
Harry is safe from Voldemort where his mother's blood resides. He is safe there because his mother died to save him. Has anyone considered that his father died to save him as well, and while their house was blown up, there may still be property elsewhere that Harry could be safe?
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Catherine - Nov 13, 2004 5:55 am (#1993 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
That's a good point about James, Remiden, except that I don't think that the property, per se, is what provides the protection. Also, JKR has said that Harry has no other relatives.
I'd like to see this thread discuss the HBP.
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Eliza - Nov 13, 2004 11:09 am (#1994 of 2923)
Catherine you are probably right. I guess I really can't see JK going there. She seems to teach a lot of morals in her books and I am sure she knows that her books are used in classrooms, so I don't really think she would touch on the illegitimacy issue. That was the one gaping hole I had every time I thought about my theory. But it was the only way I could think of that the child's identity would be unknown. Oh well I guess the threads unravel.............
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Hogs Head - Nov 13, 2004 11:13 am (#1995 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Can someone please give me an educated guess -- a date to begin re-reading HP Books 1-5 so that I will be just finished a day or so before my pre-ordered copy (copies) of HP6 lands on my doorstep via UPS or FedEx? If we have insufficient data at this time to know, that's an okay answer.
In addition to other re-read efforts (and although I'm usually a "rapid reader"), I've made a practice of reading each (and every one of the) prior volume(s) v e r y _ s l o w l y before each new book comes out. However, I hate to leave too much of a gap between finishing the re-read of the old volumes and starting the new. (Otherwise, forgetful me, I have to start over -- although I've certainly done that enough.) I rushed the process before Book 5 came out because I didn't allow enough time for a slow read, counting too much on my ability to read while travelling. Excessive turbulence en route to Copenhagen from the U.S. ruined that plan.
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WeasleyKing - Nov 13, 2004 11:27 am (#1996 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP is DD. We know very little about his past. I just can't help but think DD is connected to Fawkes somehow. Perhaps we should look at "half blood" at a new angle. ...So many possibilities...
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Catherine - Nov 13, 2004 11:47 am (#1997 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Hogs Head,
From chatting informally with other Forum members and hosts, we all seem to think that HBP will be released in late spring/early summer. We may be deluding ourselves out of our intense desire for this book, but that's what we think.
It makes sense to me that JKR overhauled her site last June in preparation for a one year countdown to the book's release. A June release would also fit the pattern her books have shown in the past.
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 13, 2004 11:48 am (#1998 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Hogs Head - I can't speak for everyone and it wouldn't surprize me if everybody knows but I haven't been told. But, I do not have the slightest idea when it will be coming out. It should be released given prior history about 4 to 6 months after the announcement that the book has been released to the publishers. Unfortunately we don't have any idea when that announcement will be given.
So join the rest of us as we continue to discuss all of the possibilities.
Mikie
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Catherine - Nov 13, 2004 2:51 pm (#1999 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Let me make it clear that my previous post was pure speculation. There has been no formal announcement.
I do believe it likely that HBP will be out in June.
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Hogs Head - Nov 13, 2004 3:29 pm (#2000 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Thanks. Now I'll join the waiting party, too.
FYI, I notice a small town in Georgia (state in the U.S, not a neighbor of Russia) is celebrating a 1,000 pound hog nicknamed, "Hogzilla."
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's great. Something to aim for. Sadly, they are celebrating the death of Hogzilla, so I'll try to avoid that part.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2001 to 2050)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:41 am
Her-melanie - Nov 13, 2004 3:39 pm (#2001 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Hogs Head, I think it's time to change your Lexicon name then. Hogzilla has nice feel to it.
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KEMME DAVID - Nov 13, 2004 7:16 pm (#2002 of 2923)
Hogs Head,
On a News broadcast a few days ago they stated that book 6 would be coming out in September of 05 I cant remember the program, I just remember being upset that I would have to wait till my Birthday to get the new book. If anyone else seen the Program Please let me know.
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Eliza - Nov 13, 2004 7:41 pm (#2003 of 2923)
I seriously doubt that JK would have told some random program and not posted it on her site. It was probably just someone's speculation. I vote for June too. I want it to be June 19th because then I can celebrate my daughter's 1st birthday by reading it:) Unfortunately I don't think I can convince anyone that SHE wants it for her birthday.
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Her-melanie - Nov 13, 2004 8:53 pm (#2004 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Eliza, don't feel bad that you want it for yourself. Anytime people look at me funny when they see me reading Harry Potter or hear me talking about it, I look them straight in the eye and tell them, "It's actually quite literary, have you read it? Well, you'd have to be familiar with Classical literature and mythology to really get it." That shuts them right up.
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haymoni - Nov 13, 2004 8:56 pm (#2005 of 2923)
Nice one, Her-melanie! Isn't it great to be an insufferable know-it-all???
Eliza - I am sure that your daughter would want her mother to be content and happy - that would be reason enough to need Book 6!
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Ainsley Black - Nov 14, 2004 4:47 am (#2006 of 2923)
June 19th is a great day as it is my Birthday too!!!!
I always say my little girl wants things for her birthday just so i can play with them. It's my excuse for getting started on Harry Potter, mind you she does love the films but is a little young for the books still.
Just so my posting isn't totally off subject i have always had a feeling about Justin Finch-Fletchly as a sort of Half-blood prince character. He's been mention in passing several times in the books and i've always thought he'd play a bigger part. I know Ernie Macmillan says in CS that he's Muggle-born but i just have a FEELING about him. Anyway that's me.
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Professor Dumbledore - Nov 15, 2004 1:29 pm (#2007 of 2923)
June of 2005? Well, it kaes sense. It'll have been more than two years since the last book was finished. I sure hope it doesn't take her this long to put together book 7!
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scoop2172000 - Nov 15, 2004 1:59 pm (#2008 of 2923)
About when is JKR's new baby due? I can't recall seeing anything specific. Not that I think the pregnancy will interfere with the completion of the book. However, it is possible the baby's arrival will impact the timing of the book's release, because of the flurry of media interviews that would be requested around release time.
Anyone?
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Eliza - Nov 15, 2004 6:37 pm (#2009 of 2923)
My guess would be that JK's baby is due February or March of 2005. Most women find out when they are 1 to 2 months pregnant and she announced her pregnancy in July. As for convincing people my daughter wants the book, I'm not ashamed, most of my family reads them too, I just wanted someone else to buy it.{OK! I'm cheap. I usually hit the library before the book store.}
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KTO - Nov 15, 2004 9:38 pm (#2010 of 2923)
I bet JKR would not announce her pregnancy until she was at least three months pregnant, that makes the baby due in January, 12 weeks maternity leave, giving us a May/June release!
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Gerald Costales - Nov 16, 2004 7:25 am (#2011 of 2923)
Just to take the HBP discussion in another direction.
Someone mentioned (possibly on another thread) that Dumbledore will hold a memorial service for Sirius. Dumbledore would use this occasion to announce Sirius’ innocence publicly, now that the return of Voldermort is out in the open.
Since most memorial service are open to the public, enter a mysterious guest to Sirius’ memorial service. The mysterious guest is the Half-Blood Prince. Just a thought. ;-) GC
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Hawthorn Wycke - Nov 17, 2004 4:07 am (#2012 of 2923)
Excellent study on the number 12. I'm keeping it and my quick quotes quill is almost done.
Could you look up one more thing for me please? Could you tell me what ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month and how that relates to what Firenze said in Classroom 11?
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Catherine - Nov 17, 2004 5:34 am (#2013 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Could you look up one more thing for me please? Could you tell me what ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month and how that relates to what Firenze said in Classroom 11? Hawthorn Wycke
I'm confused by your question. Are you suggesting that this has something to do with the Half-Blood Prince?
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Czarina II - Nov 17, 2004 9:34 am (#2014 of 2923)
"Could you look up one more thing for me please? Could you tell me what ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month and how that relates to what Firenze said in Classroom 11?" Hawthorn Wycke
The First World War ended (sort of, er, officially) on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, at least in one time zone. I don't know how that relates to Firenze in OoP or HbP, either. I missed something somewhere. I suppose such a thing happens when you're away for a weekend and then face a 36-hour blackout.
Anyhow, I like the idea of the Half-blood Prince showing up at Sirius' memorial service, though I don't think that will happen. I still think the character is someone from the past, but I will hold out until the book is published, released, and I have read it.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 17, 2004 9:32 pm (#2015 of 2923)
November 11th is Veterans' Day in the US, though I think it's called Armistice Day in Europe and the UK, and Remembrance Day in Canada.
The guns in World War I went silent on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. The year was 1918.
Here's more about it:
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JKR was certainly making a reference to the idea that the WWI was called "the war to end all wars." It was such a huge, bloody, global conflict involving almost every European nation, some Asian countries (as colonial interests of Europe) and finally the United States that it was unlike any previous war. People thought it surely couldn't happen again. Talk about a touch of irony.
Ciao. Barb
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hellocello3200 - Nov 18, 2004 2:13 pm (#2016 of 2923)
Yes, what is especially ironic is that the treaty that officially ended the war, the treaty of Versailles (Sorry if that's misspelled) was the cause of WWII. The restrictions and payments demanded of Germany by the allies led to frustration in Germany which Hitler exploited in his rise to power and cited as a reason to go to war. Perhaps some connection could be made comparing the Great war and WWII and the first and second wars in the books.
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KTO - Nov 19, 2004 8:55 pm (#2017 of 2923)
Mugglenet is saying June 2005, I am ready for a release date!!
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Liz Mann - Nov 20, 2004 10:07 am (#2018 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
It's still a rumour at the moment. Personally I won't believe it until it appears on J.K's website. But I hope they're right. Either June 11th or June 18th apparently, both Saturdays.
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Czarina II - Nov 20, 2004 5:21 pm (#2019 of 2923)
EEEE!! (shrieks and squeals with glee) That would be WONDERFUL!!!
(skips and dances merrily)
Ah, if only JKR would confirm it...
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Richard Reid - Nov 20, 2004 9:33 pm (#2020 of 2923)
450 pages?? That would not be wonderful though. That is a lot less than I expected (Well, that's at least what Mugglenet is reporting).
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Lunar Tides - Nov 20, 2004 10:52 pm (#2021 of 2923)
Hey everybody, I was thinking about the memorial service for Sirius and about a mystery guest coming...perhaps if this guest is related to Sirius (thats the reason why he/she comes), maybe the relation is a "detour" off Draco's family tree? I know it sounds sort of weird, because I think personally that the name of the chapter means a drastic change in Draco's personaility, but I somehow figure that because "half-blood" is mentioned, the idea of blood relations will become more significajnt (even for pure-bloods).
Speaking of Malfoys, do you all think that the Malfoy Mansion (and the "supposedly illegal" dark items hidden in the basement) will become more important or maybe a scene for adventure within this upcoming book?
Urp, here comes another brainwave...maybe the "detour" refers to Draco visting his father in Azkaban?
-ChanLing
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Ainsley Black - Nov 21, 2004 4:35 am (#2022 of 2923)
I think now that they have evidence of Lucius being a DE thanks to his rather less than succesfull trip to the Ministry in OOTP Aurther Weasley will be able to use the innfo Harry gave him about the location of the Malfoy secret chamber under the drawing room (I think it was the drawing room). I feel a raid comming on at the Malfoy Mansion.!!!!
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haymoni - Nov 21, 2004 7:44 am (#2023 of 2923)
Did Arthur ever get that info? Ron was supposed to write to him. I can't imagine Arthur didn't use it right away.
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Gerald Costales - Nov 21, 2004 8:32 am (#2024 of 2923)
Back to some speculation on who the HBP. I have some thoughts based on the revelation of the three chapter titles for HBP from JKR's website: (to review)
. . . . . . Chapter 2: . . . . . . . . . . Spinners End
. . . . . . Chapter 6: . . . . . . . . . . Draco's Detour
. . . . . . Chapter 14: . . . . . . . . . .Felix Felicis
First, I who guess that "Spinners" is a last name and a new character. "Draco's Detour", I believe will be a trip by Draco to visit Lucius before the start of the new school year. Draco could be receiving instructions and information from Lucius. The work of the Death Eaters must continue even with Lucius and other Death Eaters in Azkaban. Who better than Draco to carry them out along with Crabbe and Goyle whose fathers are probably also now in Azkaban.
Now finally, "Felix Felicis", I think along with the description of the Lion-like person revealed earlier by JKR, that this could be a new character and some believe is also the new DADA teacher. Dumbledore has had little luck filling the DADA postion. Gildaroy
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Gerald Costales - Nov 21, 2004 9:09 am (#2025 of 2923)
(continued from prevous post) . . . Gilderoy and Mad Eye/Bartie Crouch Jr. were both poor replacements. Froggy Umbridge was appointed by Fudge, so Umbridge doesn't count as one of Dumbledore's choices.
If Felix Felicis is a Half-Blood could Felix also be the Half-Blood Prince? Dumbledore my have had to search out of the UK to fill the DADA position. A mysterious person like Felix maybe the only person willing or foolish enough to take the position. Like Ron said the DADA position does seem cursed. Of course, the fact that Felix is a Half-Blood and a Prince will not be revealed at first in Book 6. But,like Lupin's werewolfism (or should that be werewolf handicapped or werewolf disabled) will be discovered latter.
I've been a strong supporter of Godric Gryffindor as the HBP. But, after another new revelations from JKR, I may have to rethink past choices and come up with new possibilities. ;-) GC
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Denise S. - Nov 21, 2004 9:39 am (#2026 of 2923)
We are not a cult, we're just slightly obsessed and mentally unstable. There's a difference. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I'm 99% sure someone else has said this already, but I think/hope that Spinners End is where Harry's going to go after his "shortest stay yet at Privet Drive." Obviously it's not the Weasleys, and somehow I doubt it's Hermione (possible, but unlikely). I'm thinking/hoping it'd be Lupin's place; after all, Harry just lost his father figure and Lupin's the last link he has to details about his parents' youth. It'd make sense for him to spend more time with Lupin, and since Lupin isn't likely to be making any appearances at Hogwarts...*shrug*
Or maybe it's just too late and I'm too tired to be posting...
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Solitaire - Nov 21, 2004 10:50 am (#2027 of 2923)
Could Spinners End refer to the death of Aragog? Spiders spin. It's possible that Aragog and the spiders will suffer in the fallout of the War. Just a thought ...
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Richard Reid - Nov 21, 2004 1:20 pm (#2028 of 2923)
It's definately possible - however, at the second chapter, it seems a bit early to be introducing Aragog into the plot. He is in the Forbidden Forrest, and presumably, Harry will still be at Privet Drive then.
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Eliza - Nov 21, 2004 1:40 pm (#2029 of 2923)
I agree that chapter too is a little early for Harry to have started the school; however, he may have gone to stay with Hagrid, Dumbledore,McGongall or another OoP member. He would therefore be privy to any knowledge concerning Aragog. I think it is also possible that he leaves Privet Drive in Chapter 1. Remember Dumbledore said that he only had to stay there 1 day a year to call it home. I think that Dumbledore's guilt over everything to do with Sirius and the lack of knowledge he shared with Harry may lead him to removing him from Privet Drive as fast as possible. I also think that since he can't really even walk out the door safely, Dumbledore may want to get him out of there fast. Furthermore, Harry's relatives are a major target now and may not last very long. As for Felix being the new DADA teacher, even Umbridge showed up by chapter 11, so I think chapter 14 is a bit late in the book since it is suppose to be shorter then OoP.
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Liz Mann - Nov 21, 2004 2:49 pm (#2030 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
450 pages?? That would not be wonderful though. That is a lot less than I expected (Well, that's at least what Mugglenet is reporting).
When did they say that? I've just been over there and I can't see anything about that.
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Richard Reid - Nov 21, 2004 3:25 pm (#2031 of 2923)
Ah, they have edited their original post. Now, there is an editorial comment, so they have withdrawn the 450 pages quote.
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essie125 - Nov 22, 2004 5:43 am (#2032 of 2923)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
Is it safe to assume that the three chapter titles are the deffinit ones? cos if they are than that means that they are porbably already edited byt he editor. could this mean that JKR has finished writing the whole book and that she only needs to work out soem flaws that the editor. found? and could this mean (getting hysterical now) that we can expect the sixth book to be published in 2005. I had a dream (No I'm not a lunatic, just desperate)that JKR was not allowed to publish the book after 28th of August. So maybe it was a preminission. And that I am a Seer and that i should be the new divination teacher. Only joking. No I really hope that the book will come out next year, but then again i knew that the fifth book was going to be called Harry Potter and the order of the Phoenix long before it came out and there were publication dates for that book that were changed about four times. And it took a couple of years for that book to actually get published. (all hysteria I had a few minutes ago has been evapporated like the grey mist in Dumbledores pensieve. and replaced by desperation) PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!! JKR and or book company (forgot the name out of pure missey LOL) get me out of this misery.
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Solitaire - Nov 22, 2004 8:22 am (#2033 of 2923)
Eliza, I am guessing that Harry will be privy to a lot more information this summer than in previous summers, even at 4 Privet Drive. I am willing to bet the Dursleys are more cooperative about mail somehow--knowing that if they aren't, they might have the entire company of visitors they saw in Kings Crossing come parading up to their front door! They might request that Hedwig deliver the mail only at night--in order to avoid the neighbors seeing her--but I kind of have a hunch they won't be quite as warden-like in their treatment of Harry.
I am also hoping that as soon as Harry is home and settled in for what exists of his summer with them, we get to see a nice talk between him and Aunt Pet about things (information, "artifacts") she's kept hidden all these years. I'm also hoping we get a peek at Dumbledore's original letter to Petunia.
Solitaire
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 22, 2004 9:04 am (#2034 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Solitaire I also hope for what you suggest, but if Harry is forced to move by Chapter 2-Spinners End we may not find out everything we want or need.
Mikie
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Gerald Costales - Nov 22, 2004 10:46 am (#2035 of 2923)
"Could Spinners End refer to the death of Aragog? Spiders spin. It's possible that Aragog and the spiders will suffer in the fallout of the War. Just a thought ..." Solitaire
If the the chapter could be titled the "End of the Spinners" then Aragog could be a possible character in Book 6. But, "Spinners" is plural so are all the Spiders in the Forbidden Forrest, including Aragog, affected. The War could possibily be the cause of the destruction of all the Spiders. But, why destroy all or most of the Spiders?
". . . I think/hope that Spinners End is where Harry's going to go after his "shortest stay yet at Privet Drive." Denise S.
At this point I think Denise S. could be right and "Spinners End" is a place. ;-) GC
PS Spinners could still be a person though.
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Eliza - Nov 22, 2004 12:16 pm (#2036 of 2923)
Considering Aragog is a friend of Hagrid's and Voldemort is aware of his existence as seen in CoS, it is possible that Voldemort may see Man eating spiders on Dumbledore's side as a threat. They could be a potential weapon for Hagrid. Gramp could lead them since he is too big for them to be much of a threat to him. I agree that the Dursley's will probably be nicer to Harry this summer. Just wait until Book 7 when they find out that Harry is free to do as he pleases after his 17th birthday. Bet they won't forget that one. They may even get him a nice present to put themselves on his good side. I am thinking that we may find out some new info tomorrow. Maybe it is just hope but since the Prisoner of Azkaban movie is being released on video, I am hoping it will prompt her to release more info. I WANT AN EXACT DATE. Sorry patience is waning.
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Ainsley Black - Nov 22, 2004 2:12 pm (#2037 of 2923)
I doubt you will get anything new simply because the film is out on video in the US seeing as we didn't get anything here in the UK (tears well in my eyes).
maybe we'll get an xmas present from her of something that will hint towards a release date of book 6.
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Eliza - Nov 22, 2004 4:33 pm (#2038 of 2923)
Sorry thought the release date was universal. Oh well. I was just hopeful. WAAAAHHHH!!!!! (sorry too much time around my 5 month old)
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Czarina II - Nov 22, 2004 7:16 pm (#2039 of 2923)
I know Riddle/Voldemort knows that Aragog existed, but does he know that the spider is still around? Might we guess that Quirrell (with Voldemort on his head) met an acromantula or two in the Forest during PS? I doubt it, since I think acromantulas are smart enough to avoid things that hurt them. Besides, the spiders seem concentrated in one part of the Forest (the centre) and it doesn't seem that they travel very much. Surely enough things cross their path so that they don't really have to go anywhere, so it is unlikely that Voldemort would know for sure that Aragog and his brood even exist.
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Eliza - Nov 22, 2004 8:05 pm (#2040 of 2923)
Well he would know for sure if they join the war.
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Liz Mann - Nov 23, 2004 3:40 pm (#2041 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Ainsley Black - Mugglenet are currently rumouring a release date for June next year. Unconfirmed as of yet.
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Solitaire - Nov 23, 2004 10:05 pm (#2042 of 2923)
Czarina, Tom Riddle certainly knew about Aragog in CoS, so why wouldn't Voldemort know about him now? Remember that Tom confronted Hagrid and tried to kill Aragog, intending to pass him off as the the cause of the attacks and the thing that had killed Myrtle. Harry saw this when he entered the Diary.
Solitaire
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remiden - Nov 24, 2004 12:15 am (#2043 of 2923)
Solitaire, he said in his post that Riddle knew about Aragog (as a matter of fact, it is the very first thing he says), but his point was that the Aragog that riddle knew was about the size of a small dog. That aragog certainly did not have a wife and a few hundred broodlings at his command. The grown up aragog is the one that Voldemort may not know about. The one Riddle tried to kill is VERY different from the one that showed up toward the end of CoS.
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Liz Mann - Nov 24, 2004 2:14 am (#2044 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
And he might not know that Hagrid still has Aragog or where.
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Solitaire - Nov 25, 2004 11:00 pm (#2045 of 2923)
Well, Riddle knew that Aragog was not killed and that he escaped from the castle (presumably into the forest) nearly 50 years ago. Since Voldemort frequently visited the Forbidden Forest on the back of Quirrell's head--during his nocturnal quests for Unicorn blood--I would be very surprised if he was not aware of exactly what creatures made their homes there. If we were talking about just any Dark Wizard, I would probably agree with you--but I honestly believe any wizard as widely-traveled and knowledgeable as Voldemort would surely have this information.
Solitaire
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Daisy Pennifold - Nov 30, 2004 11:57 am (#2046 of 2923)
Referring to Harry's "Shortest stay yet" at Privet Drive:
I have a sneaking fear that this is not necessarily a good thing. I mean so far, we have always been able to have a year of build up and all the evil-doing happens near the end of each book, right around exam time. Now, the Death Eaters are out and about, regrouped, hanging out with Voldemort, wanting to conquer the WW. Are they really going to wait a year for us, so that we can watch Harry and Co. hang out in the common room and go to quidditch matches?
I am afraid that there will be an altercation in the beginning of the book that will set things up for a greater evil at the end. I know that JKR has written the previous five books with a set pattern, but things are getting bad in the WW, and maybe she isn't able to stick to the pattern this time.
If V & the Death Eaters have to wait a year between battles every time, it's going to take years for them to conquer the Wizarding World!We're at crunch time now, with only two books left, and I think HBP is going to reflect that. Saying that certain things can't happen in certain chapters because of where they are in the book may not work this time around.
That said, Spinners End could be a battlesite. Draco's Detour could be a stop off to get his Dark Mark before catching the Hogwarts Express. Felix Felicis could be a potion to revive the Longbottoms and other battle-scarred wizards to help in the battle at the end of the book. There might not BE a battle at the end of this book. It's all up in the air. I love it.
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Liz Mann - Nov 30, 2004 3:17 pm (#2047 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
You could be right Daisy.
There has to be a reason why Harry is going to spend his shortest stay there yet. It might just be so J.K. can cut down the length of the book. (Surely not! Doesn't she know her readers at all? ) But more likely that something major happens. Harry has been attacked in Privet Drive before and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again. Or maybe the Dursleys will go one step too far in their treatment of Harry. Or maybe one or more of the Dursleys will die!! Maybe Aunt Petunia will, because the magic that protects Harry there is to do with her, so if she's dead the magic will probably be broken and Harry won't be safe there anymore so the Order will need to get him out.
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Eliza - Nov 30, 2004 4:42 pm (#2048 of 2923)
I agree that something wicked is in the air on Privet Drive. I just hope nothing happens to Hedwig. She really is special to Harry and his only friend at Privet Drive. I really wouldn't care is all the Dursleys got knocked off and I don't think it would upset Harry that much either (especially if they took out Aunt Marge at the same time). I think it would be like the kind of sadness you feel when a neighbor you don't know that well or any vague acquaintance dies. And at least he wouldn't have to go back there any more. He is a good person so it would make him feel a little sad but that's it. It's not like there is any love between them.
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Gerald Costales - Nov 30, 2004 7:58 pm (#2049 of 2923)
"Felix Felicis could be a potion to revive the Longbottoms and other battle-scarred wizards to help in the battle at the end of the book." Daisy Pennifold
Felix is a male name. (Anyone remember Felix the Cat or Felix Unger in the Odd Couple.) Felicis is his last name. Of course it could be the name of a place. And none of us can be sure until Book 6 is released.
I'd like to see the Longbottoms revived. But, the important thing for the Longbottoms is Neville becoming a brave and competent Wizard. Since Frank's wand is broken, Gran will have to buy a new wand for Neville. I hope Gran doesn't get Neville another hand me down wand. (The Longbottoms aren't like the Weasleys with alot of children.)
I think there is some support for Felix Felicis being the next DADA teacher. If Felix is the next DADA teacher hopefully he'll be as good as Lupin. ;-) GC
PS I've also suggested that Felix Felicis is the HBP. Remember the Lion-like person described on JKR's website. Felicis could hint to a Lion-like person like Lupin hinted to a Wolf-like person or Werewolf.
This is a departure from my past support for Godric Grffyndor being the HBP. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Dean Thomas turns out to the the HBP. If Dean Thomas' father was a Prince than that would make Dean both a Prince and a Half-Blood. ;-) GC
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 12:16 am (#2050 of 2923)
Daisy, there has definitely been a pattern in the other books, but I also believe they have been building to something.
1 - In PS/SS during the summer, Harry learns he is a wizard.
2 - In CoS, before he is due to leave for Hogwarts, Dobby comes and creates havoc, trying to keep him from returning.
3 - Just before Harry is due to return to Hogwarts, Sirius escapes, Harry inflates Aunt Marge, runs away from Privet, and sees Sirius (the Grim).
4 - At the QWC, the DEs make their presence known, and Barty shoots up the Dark Mark.
5 - Prior to his return to Hogwarts, Harry is chased by Dementors, sees Dudley nearly "kissed," and stands trial for his "crimes."
I feel sure that the "shortest stay" bodes ill for Harry ... and probably others. Maybe it will transpire after all that the rebirthing has made Harry vulnerable to Voldemort in ways of which neither was previously aware. We all know that Voldemort can touch him; inhabiting him seems to be a different story.
Perhaps this time, Voldemort will be able to get nearer to him. Or perhaps something will happen to Aunt Petunia which renders the protection at Privet null and void. Once she dies, Dudley will be the only other person with Evans blood flowing in his veins, and it will be "diluted" by Dursley blood.
Like others, I really want that book now!
Solitaire
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"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Hogs Head, I think it's time to change your Lexicon name then. Hogzilla has nice feel to it.
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KEMME DAVID - Nov 13, 2004 7:16 pm (#2002 of 2923)
Hogs Head,
On a News broadcast a few days ago they stated that book 6 would be coming out in September of 05 I cant remember the program, I just remember being upset that I would have to wait till my Birthday to get the new book. If anyone else seen the Program Please let me know.
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Eliza - Nov 13, 2004 7:41 pm (#2003 of 2923)
I seriously doubt that JK would have told some random program and not posted it on her site. It was probably just someone's speculation. I vote for June too. I want it to be June 19th because then I can celebrate my daughter's 1st birthday by reading it:) Unfortunately I don't think I can convince anyone that SHE wants it for her birthday.
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Her-melanie - Nov 13, 2004 8:53 pm (#2004 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Eliza, don't feel bad that you want it for yourself. Anytime people look at me funny when they see me reading Harry Potter or hear me talking about it, I look them straight in the eye and tell them, "It's actually quite literary, have you read it? Well, you'd have to be familiar with Classical literature and mythology to really get it." That shuts them right up.
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haymoni - Nov 13, 2004 8:56 pm (#2005 of 2923)
Nice one, Her-melanie! Isn't it great to be an insufferable know-it-all???
Eliza - I am sure that your daughter would want her mother to be content and happy - that would be reason enough to need Book 6!
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Ainsley Black - Nov 14, 2004 4:47 am (#2006 of 2923)
June 19th is a great day as it is my Birthday too!!!!
I always say my little girl wants things for her birthday just so i can play with them. It's my excuse for getting started on Harry Potter, mind you she does love the films but is a little young for the books still.
Just so my posting isn't totally off subject i have always had a feeling about Justin Finch-Fletchly as a sort of Half-blood prince character. He's been mention in passing several times in the books and i've always thought he'd play a bigger part. I know Ernie Macmillan says in CS that he's Muggle-born but i just have a FEELING about him. Anyway that's me.
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Professor Dumbledore - Nov 15, 2004 1:29 pm (#2007 of 2923)
June of 2005? Well, it kaes sense. It'll have been more than two years since the last book was finished. I sure hope it doesn't take her this long to put together book 7!
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scoop2172000 - Nov 15, 2004 1:59 pm (#2008 of 2923)
About when is JKR's new baby due? I can't recall seeing anything specific. Not that I think the pregnancy will interfere with the completion of the book. However, it is possible the baby's arrival will impact the timing of the book's release, because of the flurry of media interviews that would be requested around release time.
Anyone?
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Eliza - Nov 15, 2004 6:37 pm (#2009 of 2923)
My guess would be that JK's baby is due February or March of 2005. Most women find out when they are 1 to 2 months pregnant and she announced her pregnancy in July. As for convincing people my daughter wants the book, I'm not ashamed, most of my family reads them too, I just wanted someone else to buy it.{OK! I'm cheap. I usually hit the library before the book store.}
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KTO - Nov 15, 2004 9:38 pm (#2010 of 2923)
I bet JKR would not announce her pregnancy until she was at least three months pregnant, that makes the baby due in January, 12 weeks maternity leave, giving us a May/June release!
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Gerald Costales - Nov 16, 2004 7:25 am (#2011 of 2923)
Just to take the HBP discussion in another direction.
Someone mentioned (possibly on another thread) that Dumbledore will hold a memorial service for Sirius. Dumbledore would use this occasion to announce Sirius’ innocence publicly, now that the return of Voldermort is out in the open.
Since most memorial service are open to the public, enter a mysterious guest to Sirius’ memorial service. The mysterious guest is the Half-Blood Prince. Just a thought. ;-) GC
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Hawthorn Wycke - Nov 17, 2004 4:07 am (#2012 of 2923)
Excellent study on the number 12. I'm keeping it and my quick quotes quill is almost done.
Could you look up one more thing for me please? Could you tell me what ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month and how that relates to what Firenze said in Classroom 11?
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Catherine - Nov 17, 2004 5:34 am (#2013 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Could you look up one more thing for me please? Could you tell me what ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month and how that relates to what Firenze said in Classroom 11? Hawthorn Wycke
I'm confused by your question. Are you suggesting that this has something to do with the Half-Blood Prince?
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Czarina II - Nov 17, 2004 9:34 am (#2014 of 2923)
"Could you look up one more thing for me please? Could you tell me what ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month and how that relates to what Firenze said in Classroom 11?" Hawthorn Wycke
The First World War ended (sort of, er, officially) on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, at least in one time zone. I don't know how that relates to Firenze in OoP or HbP, either. I missed something somewhere. I suppose such a thing happens when you're away for a weekend and then face a 36-hour blackout.
Anyhow, I like the idea of the Half-blood Prince showing up at Sirius' memorial service, though I don't think that will happen. I still think the character is someone from the past, but I will hold out until the book is published, released, and I have read it.
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Madame Librarian - Nov 17, 2004 9:32 pm (#2015 of 2923)
November 11th is Veterans' Day in the US, though I think it's called Armistice Day in Europe and the UK, and Remembrance Day in Canada.
The guns in World War I went silent on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. The year was 1918.
Here's more about it:
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JKR was certainly making a reference to the idea that the WWI was called "the war to end all wars." It was such a huge, bloody, global conflict involving almost every European nation, some Asian countries (as colonial interests of Europe) and finally the United States that it was unlike any previous war. People thought it surely couldn't happen again. Talk about a touch of irony.
Ciao. Barb
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hellocello3200 - Nov 18, 2004 2:13 pm (#2016 of 2923)
Yes, what is especially ironic is that the treaty that officially ended the war, the treaty of Versailles (Sorry if that's misspelled) was the cause of WWII. The restrictions and payments demanded of Germany by the allies led to frustration in Germany which Hitler exploited in his rise to power and cited as a reason to go to war. Perhaps some connection could be made comparing the Great war and WWII and the first and second wars in the books.
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KTO - Nov 19, 2004 8:55 pm (#2017 of 2923)
Mugglenet is saying June 2005, I am ready for a release date!!
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Liz Mann - Nov 20, 2004 10:07 am (#2018 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
It's still a rumour at the moment. Personally I won't believe it until it appears on J.K's website. But I hope they're right. Either June 11th or June 18th apparently, both Saturdays.
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Czarina II - Nov 20, 2004 5:21 pm (#2019 of 2923)
EEEE!! (shrieks and squeals with glee) That would be WONDERFUL!!!
(skips and dances merrily)
Ah, if only JKR would confirm it...
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Richard Reid - Nov 20, 2004 9:33 pm (#2020 of 2923)
450 pages?? That would not be wonderful though. That is a lot less than I expected (Well, that's at least what Mugglenet is reporting).
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Lunar Tides - Nov 20, 2004 10:52 pm (#2021 of 2923)
Hey everybody, I was thinking about the memorial service for Sirius and about a mystery guest coming...perhaps if this guest is related to Sirius (thats the reason why he/she comes), maybe the relation is a "detour" off Draco's family tree? I know it sounds sort of weird, because I think personally that the name of the chapter means a drastic change in Draco's personaility, but I somehow figure that because "half-blood" is mentioned, the idea of blood relations will become more significajnt (even for pure-bloods).
Speaking of Malfoys, do you all think that the Malfoy Mansion (and the "supposedly illegal" dark items hidden in the basement) will become more important or maybe a scene for adventure within this upcoming book?
Urp, here comes another brainwave...maybe the "detour" refers to Draco visting his father in Azkaban?
-ChanLing
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Ainsley Black - Nov 21, 2004 4:35 am (#2022 of 2923)
I think now that they have evidence of Lucius being a DE thanks to his rather less than succesfull trip to the Ministry in OOTP Aurther Weasley will be able to use the innfo Harry gave him about the location of the Malfoy secret chamber under the drawing room (I think it was the drawing room). I feel a raid comming on at the Malfoy Mansion.!!!!
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haymoni - Nov 21, 2004 7:44 am (#2023 of 2923)
Did Arthur ever get that info? Ron was supposed to write to him. I can't imagine Arthur didn't use it right away.
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Gerald Costales - Nov 21, 2004 8:32 am (#2024 of 2923)
Back to some speculation on who the HBP. I have some thoughts based on the revelation of the three chapter titles for HBP from JKR's website: (to review)
. . . . . . Chapter 2: . . . . . . . . . . Spinners End
. . . . . . Chapter 6: . . . . . . . . . . Draco's Detour
. . . . . . Chapter 14: . . . . . . . . . .Felix Felicis
First, I who guess that "Spinners" is a last name and a new character. "Draco's Detour", I believe will be a trip by Draco to visit Lucius before the start of the new school year. Draco could be receiving instructions and information from Lucius. The work of the Death Eaters must continue even with Lucius and other Death Eaters in Azkaban. Who better than Draco to carry them out along with Crabbe and Goyle whose fathers are probably also now in Azkaban.
Now finally, "Felix Felicis", I think along with the description of the Lion-like person revealed earlier by JKR, that this could be a new character and some believe is also the new DADA teacher. Dumbledore has had little luck filling the DADA postion. Gildaroy
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Gerald Costales - Nov 21, 2004 9:09 am (#2025 of 2923)
(continued from prevous post) . . . Gilderoy and Mad Eye/Bartie Crouch Jr. were both poor replacements. Froggy Umbridge was appointed by Fudge, so Umbridge doesn't count as one of Dumbledore's choices.
If Felix Felicis is a Half-Blood could Felix also be the Half-Blood Prince? Dumbledore my have had to search out of the UK to fill the DADA position. A mysterious person like Felix maybe the only person willing or foolish enough to take the position. Like Ron said the DADA position does seem cursed. Of course, the fact that Felix is a Half-Blood and a Prince will not be revealed at first in Book 6. But,like Lupin's werewolfism (or should that be werewolf handicapped or werewolf disabled) will be discovered latter.
I've been a strong supporter of Godric Gryffindor as the HBP. But, after another new revelations from JKR, I may have to rethink past choices and come up with new possibilities. ;-) GC
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Denise S. - Nov 21, 2004 9:39 am (#2026 of 2923)
We are not a cult, we're just slightly obsessed and mentally unstable. There's a difference. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I'm 99% sure someone else has said this already, but I think/hope that Spinners End is where Harry's going to go after his "shortest stay yet at Privet Drive." Obviously it's not the Weasleys, and somehow I doubt it's Hermione (possible, but unlikely). I'm thinking/hoping it'd be Lupin's place; after all, Harry just lost his father figure and Lupin's the last link he has to details about his parents' youth. It'd make sense for him to spend more time with Lupin, and since Lupin isn't likely to be making any appearances at Hogwarts...*shrug*
Or maybe it's just too late and I'm too tired to be posting...
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Solitaire - Nov 21, 2004 10:50 am (#2027 of 2923)
Could Spinners End refer to the death of Aragog? Spiders spin. It's possible that Aragog and the spiders will suffer in the fallout of the War. Just a thought ...
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Richard Reid - Nov 21, 2004 1:20 pm (#2028 of 2923)
It's definately possible - however, at the second chapter, it seems a bit early to be introducing Aragog into the plot. He is in the Forbidden Forrest, and presumably, Harry will still be at Privet Drive then.
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Eliza - Nov 21, 2004 1:40 pm (#2029 of 2923)
I agree that chapter too is a little early for Harry to have started the school; however, he may have gone to stay with Hagrid, Dumbledore,McGongall or another OoP member. He would therefore be privy to any knowledge concerning Aragog. I think it is also possible that he leaves Privet Drive in Chapter 1. Remember Dumbledore said that he only had to stay there 1 day a year to call it home. I think that Dumbledore's guilt over everything to do with Sirius and the lack of knowledge he shared with Harry may lead him to removing him from Privet Drive as fast as possible. I also think that since he can't really even walk out the door safely, Dumbledore may want to get him out of there fast. Furthermore, Harry's relatives are a major target now and may not last very long. As for Felix being the new DADA teacher, even Umbridge showed up by chapter 11, so I think chapter 14 is a bit late in the book since it is suppose to be shorter then OoP.
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Liz Mann - Nov 21, 2004 2:49 pm (#2030 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
450 pages?? That would not be wonderful though. That is a lot less than I expected (Well, that's at least what Mugglenet is reporting).
When did they say that? I've just been over there and I can't see anything about that.
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Richard Reid - Nov 21, 2004 3:25 pm (#2031 of 2923)
Ah, they have edited their original post. Now, there is an editorial comment, so they have withdrawn the 450 pages quote.
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essie125 - Nov 22, 2004 5:43 am (#2032 of 2923)
Jo, of course I think about Alan when I think about Snape, Who wouldn't think about Alan all day every day eh.
Is it safe to assume that the three chapter titles are the deffinit ones? cos if they are than that means that they are porbably already edited byt he editor. could this mean that JKR has finished writing the whole book and that she only needs to work out soem flaws that the editor. found? and could this mean (getting hysterical now) that we can expect the sixth book to be published in 2005. I had a dream (No I'm not a lunatic, just desperate)that JKR was not allowed to publish the book after 28th of August. So maybe it was a preminission. And that I am a Seer and that i should be the new divination teacher. Only joking. No I really hope that the book will come out next year, but then again i knew that the fifth book was going to be called Harry Potter and the order of the Phoenix long before it came out and there were publication dates for that book that were changed about four times. And it took a couple of years for that book to actually get published. (all hysteria I had a few minutes ago has been evapporated like the grey mist in Dumbledores pensieve. and replaced by desperation) PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!! JKR and or book company (forgot the name out of pure missey LOL) get me out of this misery.
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Solitaire - Nov 22, 2004 8:22 am (#2033 of 2923)
Eliza, I am guessing that Harry will be privy to a lot more information this summer than in previous summers, even at 4 Privet Drive. I am willing to bet the Dursleys are more cooperative about mail somehow--knowing that if they aren't, they might have the entire company of visitors they saw in Kings Crossing come parading up to their front door! They might request that Hedwig deliver the mail only at night--in order to avoid the neighbors seeing her--but I kind of have a hunch they won't be quite as warden-like in their treatment of Harry.
I am also hoping that as soon as Harry is home and settled in for what exists of his summer with them, we get to see a nice talk between him and Aunt Pet about things (information, "artifacts") she's kept hidden all these years. I'm also hoping we get a peek at Dumbledore's original letter to Petunia.
Solitaire
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MickeyCee3948 - Nov 22, 2004 9:04 am (#2034 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Solitaire I also hope for what you suggest, but if Harry is forced to move by Chapter 2-Spinners End we may not find out everything we want or need.
Mikie
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Gerald Costales - Nov 22, 2004 10:46 am (#2035 of 2923)
"Could Spinners End refer to the death of Aragog? Spiders spin. It's possible that Aragog and the spiders will suffer in the fallout of the War. Just a thought ..." Solitaire
If the the chapter could be titled the "End of the Spinners" then Aragog could be a possible character in Book 6. But, "Spinners" is plural so are all the Spiders in the Forbidden Forrest, including Aragog, affected. The War could possibily be the cause of the destruction of all the Spiders. But, why destroy all or most of the Spiders?
". . . I think/hope that Spinners End is where Harry's going to go after his "shortest stay yet at Privet Drive." Denise S.
At this point I think Denise S. could be right and "Spinners End" is a place. ;-) GC
PS Spinners could still be a person though.
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Eliza - Nov 22, 2004 12:16 pm (#2036 of 2923)
Considering Aragog is a friend of Hagrid's and Voldemort is aware of his existence as seen in CoS, it is possible that Voldemort may see Man eating spiders on Dumbledore's side as a threat. They could be a potential weapon for Hagrid. Gramp could lead them since he is too big for them to be much of a threat to him. I agree that the Dursley's will probably be nicer to Harry this summer. Just wait until Book 7 when they find out that Harry is free to do as he pleases after his 17th birthday. Bet they won't forget that one. They may even get him a nice present to put themselves on his good side. I am thinking that we may find out some new info tomorrow. Maybe it is just hope but since the Prisoner of Azkaban movie is being released on video, I am hoping it will prompt her to release more info. I WANT AN EXACT DATE. Sorry patience is waning.
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Ainsley Black - Nov 22, 2004 2:12 pm (#2037 of 2923)
I doubt you will get anything new simply because the film is out on video in the US seeing as we didn't get anything here in the UK (tears well in my eyes).
maybe we'll get an xmas present from her of something that will hint towards a release date of book 6.
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Eliza - Nov 22, 2004 4:33 pm (#2038 of 2923)
Sorry thought the release date was universal. Oh well. I was just hopeful. WAAAAHHHH!!!!! (sorry too much time around my 5 month old)
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Czarina II - Nov 22, 2004 7:16 pm (#2039 of 2923)
I know Riddle/Voldemort knows that Aragog existed, but does he know that the spider is still around? Might we guess that Quirrell (with Voldemort on his head) met an acromantula or two in the Forest during PS? I doubt it, since I think acromantulas are smart enough to avoid things that hurt them. Besides, the spiders seem concentrated in one part of the Forest (the centre) and it doesn't seem that they travel very much. Surely enough things cross their path so that they don't really have to go anywhere, so it is unlikely that Voldemort would know for sure that Aragog and his brood even exist.
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Eliza - Nov 22, 2004 8:05 pm (#2040 of 2923)
Well he would know for sure if they join the war.
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Liz Mann - Nov 23, 2004 3:40 pm (#2041 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Ainsley Black - Mugglenet are currently rumouring a release date for June next year. Unconfirmed as of yet.
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Solitaire - Nov 23, 2004 10:05 pm (#2042 of 2923)
Czarina, Tom Riddle certainly knew about Aragog in CoS, so why wouldn't Voldemort know about him now? Remember that Tom confronted Hagrid and tried to kill Aragog, intending to pass him off as the the cause of the attacks and the thing that had killed Myrtle. Harry saw this when he entered the Diary.
Solitaire
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remiden - Nov 24, 2004 12:15 am (#2043 of 2923)
Solitaire, he said in his post that Riddle knew about Aragog (as a matter of fact, it is the very first thing he says), but his point was that the Aragog that riddle knew was about the size of a small dog. That aragog certainly did not have a wife and a few hundred broodlings at his command. The grown up aragog is the one that Voldemort may not know about. The one Riddle tried to kill is VERY different from the one that showed up toward the end of CoS.
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Liz Mann - Nov 24, 2004 2:14 am (#2044 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
And he might not know that Hagrid still has Aragog or where.
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Solitaire - Nov 25, 2004 11:00 pm (#2045 of 2923)
Well, Riddle knew that Aragog was not killed and that he escaped from the castle (presumably into the forest) nearly 50 years ago. Since Voldemort frequently visited the Forbidden Forest on the back of Quirrell's head--during his nocturnal quests for Unicorn blood--I would be very surprised if he was not aware of exactly what creatures made their homes there. If we were talking about just any Dark Wizard, I would probably agree with you--but I honestly believe any wizard as widely-traveled and knowledgeable as Voldemort would surely have this information.
Solitaire
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Daisy Pennifold - Nov 30, 2004 11:57 am (#2046 of 2923)
Referring to Harry's "Shortest stay yet" at Privet Drive:
I have a sneaking fear that this is not necessarily a good thing. I mean so far, we have always been able to have a year of build up and all the evil-doing happens near the end of each book, right around exam time. Now, the Death Eaters are out and about, regrouped, hanging out with Voldemort, wanting to conquer the WW. Are they really going to wait a year for us, so that we can watch Harry and Co. hang out in the common room and go to quidditch matches?
I am afraid that there will be an altercation in the beginning of the book that will set things up for a greater evil at the end. I know that JKR has written the previous five books with a set pattern, but things are getting bad in the WW, and maybe she isn't able to stick to the pattern this time.
If V & the Death Eaters have to wait a year between battles every time, it's going to take years for them to conquer the Wizarding World!We're at crunch time now, with only two books left, and I think HBP is going to reflect that. Saying that certain things can't happen in certain chapters because of where they are in the book may not work this time around.
That said, Spinners End could be a battlesite. Draco's Detour could be a stop off to get his Dark Mark before catching the Hogwarts Express. Felix Felicis could be a potion to revive the Longbottoms and other battle-scarred wizards to help in the battle at the end of the book. There might not BE a battle at the end of this book. It's all up in the air. I love it.
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Liz Mann - Nov 30, 2004 3:17 pm (#2047 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
You could be right Daisy.
There has to be a reason why Harry is going to spend his shortest stay there yet. It might just be so J.K. can cut down the length of the book. (Surely not! Doesn't she know her readers at all? ) But more likely that something major happens. Harry has been attacked in Privet Drive before and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again. Or maybe the Dursleys will go one step too far in their treatment of Harry. Or maybe one or more of the Dursleys will die!! Maybe Aunt Petunia will, because the magic that protects Harry there is to do with her, so if she's dead the magic will probably be broken and Harry won't be safe there anymore so the Order will need to get him out.
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Eliza - Nov 30, 2004 4:42 pm (#2048 of 2923)
I agree that something wicked is in the air on Privet Drive. I just hope nothing happens to Hedwig. She really is special to Harry and his only friend at Privet Drive. I really wouldn't care is all the Dursleys got knocked off and I don't think it would upset Harry that much either (especially if they took out Aunt Marge at the same time). I think it would be like the kind of sadness you feel when a neighbor you don't know that well or any vague acquaintance dies. And at least he wouldn't have to go back there any more. He is a good person so it would make him feel a little sad but that's it. It's not like there is any love between them.
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Gerald Costales - Nov 30, 2004 7:58 pm (#2049 of 2923)
"Felix Felicis could be a potion to revive the Longbottoms and other battle-scarred wizards to help in the battle at the end of the book." Daisy Pennifold
Felix is a male name. (Anyone remember Felix the Cat or Felix Unger in the Odd Couple.) Felicis is his last name. Of course it could be the name of a place. And none of us can be sure until Book 6 is released.
I'd like to see the Longbottoms revived. But, the important thing for the Longbottoms is Neville becoming a brave and competent Wizard. Since Frank's wand is broken, Gran will have to buy a new wand for Neville. I hope Gran doesn't get Neville another hand me down wand. (The Longbottoms aren't like the Weasleys with alot of children.)
I think there is some support for Felix Felicis being the next DADA teacher. If Felix is the next DADA teacher hopefully he'll be as good as Lupin. ;-) GC
PS I've also suggested that Felix Felicis is the HBP. Remember the Lion-like person described on JKR's website. Felicis could hint to a Lion-like person like Lupin hinted to a Wolf-like person or Werewolf.
This is a departure from my past support for Godric Grffyndor being the HBP. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Dean Thomas turns out to the the HBP. If Dean Thomas' father was a Prince than that would make Dean both a Prince and a Half-Blood. ;-) GC
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 12:16 am (#2050 of 2923)
Daisy, there has definitely been a pattern in the other books, but I also believe they have been building to something.
1 - In PS/SS during the summer, Harry learns he is a wizard.
2 - In CoS, before he is due to leave for Hogwarts, Dobby comes and creates havoc, trying to keep him from returning.
3 - Just before Harry is due to return to Hogwarts, Sirius escapes, Harry inflates Aunt Marge, runs away from Privet, and sees Sirius (the Grim).
4 - At the QWC, the DEs make their presence known, and Barty shoots up the Dark Mark.
5 - Prior to his return to Hogwarts, Harry is chased by Dementors, sees Dudley nearly "kissed," and stands trial for his "crimes."
I feel sure that the "shortest stay" bodes ill for Harry ... and probably others. Maybe it will transpire after all that the rebirthing has made Harry vulnerable to Voldemort in ways of which neither was previously aware. We all know that Voldemort can touch him; inhabiting him seems to be a different story.
Perhaps this time, Voldemort will be able to get nearer to him. Or perhaps something will happen to Aunt Petunia which renders the protection at Privet null and void. Once she dies, Dudley will be the only other person with Evans blood flowing in his veins, and it will be "diluted" by Dursley blood.
Like others, I really want that book now!
Solitaire
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2051 to 2100)
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Ainsley Black - Dec 1, 2004 6:09 am (#2051 of 2923)
Just a quick thought, if Petunia dies then surely Dudley would become the next in line to protect Harry, he does after all have Petunia's blood and therefore Lily's!
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 8:22 am (#2052 of 2923)
As I said above, Ainsley, Dudley is half Dursley, so will his blood have the same "protection factor" that Auntie Petunia's has? Also, if something happens and Aunt Pet isn't there to make Uncle Vernon take Harry, well ... I suppose it's possible that with age, Dudley may improve in his treatment of Harry, but I'm not counting on it. If he does, though, it might be Dudley who will serve as the protector. I can only say it will be interesting to see what happens with regard to that whole situation.
I believe that Harry's "shortest stay" will be somehow connected to a change of some sort in the "protection factor" that has always kept him safe at Privet Drive.
Solitaire
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scoop2172000 - Dec 1, 2004 10:06 am (#2053 of 2923)
I think the reason behind Harry's short stay at Privet Drive will be because the Dursley's house proves to be no longer safe for him.
Harry's blood (and thus Lily's) was one of the ingredients in Voldemort's resurrection potion. Thus, Voldemort now shares in that blood. He was able to touch Harry in the graveyard.
The summer before Harry's fifth year, the Order kept a watch on him for his own protection, and it's my belief they did this because Dumbledore feared (correctly, it turned out) there might be some sort of attack on Harry during the summer holidays.
My guess is there will be an even-more determined attack on Harry this next summer, possibly from Death Eaters who escape Azkaban a second time and/or Death Eaters still on the loose (Bellatrix, Pettigrew, etc.)
Too, I predict this coming summer will be the final time Harry gets shipped back to Privet Drive. Once it proves to be no longer safe, Dumbledore will arrange a new safe-house (Spinners End?)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sirius get his own place at age 16? Harry will turn 16 this coming summer. I wonder whether he has to wait until he comes of age at 17 to leave his aunt and uncle's guardianship or if he can do so sooner.
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 11:47 am (#2054 of 2923)
Quite honestly, I doubt the Dursleys--well, Uncle Vernon, anyway--would mind at all if Harry left their home. Since the Dementor attack, they are now aware of the danger surrounding him and, by extension, Dudley and themselves.
As long as Privet Drive does continue to afford some protection, I believe Dumbledore will insist that Harry spend some of his time there each year, even if it is only a few days. If, however, that protection ceases to exist at Privet, I doubt Dumbledore will force Harry to endure the misery for no reason.
I'm sure the Weasleys would be more than happy to offer Harry a home, until Dumbledore feels he is ready to stand on his own. Frankly, he probably could fend for himself quite well. Personally, however, I believe Harry needs the warmth and emotional closeness of a family. He has never really had it, and the Weasleys seem to offer love and caring in abundance. Yes, Mrs. Weasley is overprotective to the point of being occasionally suffocating; but to a kid like Harry, a little nurturing might be a welcome nuisance to endure for a little while. JM2K (Just my 2 knuts)...
Solitaire
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Hollywand - Dec 1, 2004 1:02 pm (#2055 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I actually like imagining a different scenario where Harry Potter gets transformed instantly into the Man of the House at 4 Privet:
If Voldemort and company show up in Little Whinging, 4 Privet, with a distinct hatred of muggles, and Harry's the only one capable of defending the entire family from a terrifying, albeit magical, death.....Vernon and Dudley whimpering beneath the cupboard under the stairs with the spiders....pleading with Harry to pleeezeee stay..... ;-)
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 1, 2004 1:40 pm (#2056 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
When I expoused ideas similar to the last few posts back in July and August, I was admonished that the blood is not the only protection tied to #4 Privet Drive. It was pointed out to me that DD has added protections above Petunia's blood that protects Harry while there. Thus making an attack on #4 unlikely.
I did not believe it then and I do not now. If anything now that Voldemort is out in the open where better to start the war than #4 and test the protections that DD put on the residence while keeping the heat on Harry.
Mikie
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Hollywand - Dec 1, 2004 2:07 pm (#2057 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Agreed, Mikie.
If Voldemort is able to circumvent Dumbledore's protection at Hogwarts, during Quidditch matches and the Triwizard Tournament, I believe the Dark Lord can figure out a way to invade 4 Privet.
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Hogs Head - Dec 1, 2004 3:25 pm (#2058 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Yet I think that his early departure in Book 6, while perhaps related to an attack, will not necessarily indicate a failure or even degradation per se of the protective strengths of 4 Privet Drive. I suspect that the safe-haven nature of 4 Privet will come into play again in Book 7.
So, as I've said before, I think Harry will have to go to summer school, either to bone up at last on leglimency or else to do remedial work to bring up a poor Owl grade, etc.
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Mrdrama - Dec 1, 2004 8:53 pm (#2059 of 2923)
Hogs Head, I love the idea of Summer School for Harry to bring up an Owl grade. I think it's obvious that it would be potions, and possibly History and/or Astronomy. That would explain alot. That could also explain the chapter "Draco's Detour." He could be going to Summer School too.
I am hoping that our Christmas present from JKR will be a date when we can find out all these things!!!
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Eliza - Dec 1, 2004 9:20 pm (#2060 of 2923)
Well it is not like any of the Dursleys board themselves into the house. The most logical time of attack would be Dudley's birthday. At this point the Dursleys are separated from Harry and Harry is at Ms. Figgs' house. At that point, the DE's could mount simultaneous attacks on the Dursleys and Harry. Since Dudley's birthday is near the beginning of the summer, that would definitely make for a short stay. If I am wrong about the date of Dudley's birthday, then I am sorry please correct me and ignore that idea.
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 9:53 pm (#2061 of 2923)
According to PS/SS: "The escape of the Brazilian Boa Constrictor earned Harry his longest-ever punishment. By the time he was allowed out of his cupboard again, the summer holidays had started and Dudley had already broken his new video camera ..." That camera was one of his birthday presents, so his birthday had to be before summer holidays began.
Depending how long that punishment was and when their summer holidays begin, Dudley's birthday would seem to be sometime between May and early June. Will Harry be back home from Hogwarts before the Dud celebrates his big day? Probably not if it is that early. But I could also be wrong about the dates.
It does seem, however, that the Dursleys were willing to leave Harry alone last summer--the night they were sent on the wild goose chase after that Most Beautiful Lawn award (or whatever it was) that Tonks dreamed up, so that the Advance Guard could fetch him away. I can see them being gone for some other reason (a business dinner?) but I wonder ... would the DEs and/or Voldemort be able to get at Harry as long as he was in the house?
When Harry got all those owls after the Dementor attack, they all stressed the importance of staying in the house. Is it the house itself or Aunt Petunia's presence or a combination of the two that gives the protection? I wish I knew! Whatever the case, Eliza, I still think your idea has as much merit as any other proposal I've seen.
Solitaire
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Ainsley Black - Dec 2, 2004 4:22 am (#2062 of 2923)
If there is a Fidelus Charm for Harry then i would think that maybe it has something to do with him Staying in the house, i've always thought that the way it works is that it works while the person hiding is in a certain place, like #4, and it is only in this location that the person cannot be seen, hence why the Dementors went for Harry outside the house and not in the actual house (where it would have been much easier). If you look at how the charm has been described before (all be it in little detail) this seems to work, i think!
If anyone has a better understanding of the charm be welcome to pull my theory apart! Lol
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Gerald Costales - Dec 2, 2004 5:54 am (#2063 of 2923)
Isn't 12GP unplotable? Sirius's dad went to great measures to make it safe. One of the many precautions that Dumbledore may have performed, is to make 4 Privet Dr. unplotable.
I never thought of the Fidelus Charm. But,just as important as how the charm works is who is the Secret Keeper. Wormtail was James & Lily's Secret Keeper and we all know what happened.
If Dumbledore is 4 Privet Dr. Secret Keeper, which makes sense to me, then Harry should be okay while at the Durselys. ;-) GC
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Daisy Pennifold - Dec 2, 2004 7:18 am (#2064 of 2923)
The Weasley's have been to the Dursley's at least twice though. Would they have been able to find the house if it is under the Fidelius Charm?
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Kerrie-Louise - Dec 2, 2004 7:46 am (#2065 of 2923)
Also Professor McGonagall, Hagrid and Mrs Figg. I think this would eleminate the Fidelius Charm as an idea. Unless a charm can be modified somehow.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 2, 2004 8:28 am (#2066 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Kerrie-Louise also all of the members of the order who picked Harry up in OotP. And Mundamus(sp)also know the location. I think if the Fidelus Charm has been used their are alot op people who know about it.
Mikie
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Eliza - Dec 2, 2004 9:12 am (#2067 of 2923)
I still think that there will be a point when he is at Ms. Figg's and the Dursleys are out. The point is, he needs to be out of the house and stuck somewhere. Chances are that Ms. Figg would know this was a danger and they may even be in the street trying to sneak back to the Dursleys house while they are gone. As for the dementor attack, remember that was planned by Umbridge and she wanted exposure to get Harry in the most trouble possible, so she probably told them to attack in the street with hopes that others would be present.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 2, 2004 10:31 am (#2068 of 2923)
As i understand it the Fidelous charm works this way;
the Secret Keeper is the only one who can tell you where the person is and only then can you see them (HArry is given the Address of #12 on a piece of parchment written by Dumbledore)
I would think that Dumbledore told those of Harry's escort to #12 the exact address as well as Mrs Figg.
As far as the Weasley's i kinda come unstuck in thinking (well asuming)that because Harry has told Ron and the others where he lives at #4 it works that way too!
Any ideas anyone as to if this is right or not?
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Eliza - Dec 2, 2004 11:47 am (#2069 of 2923)
I would think that the Dursleys could not have such a charm on their house because then they would have a little trouble having regular guests, the postman, the milkman and various other everyday things. I think people know where Harry lives and can see it I just think that there are some sort of protective charms that keep him safe while he is in the home of his mother's sister. I think it has to do with Aunt Petunia but that she doesn't have to be present. It there was a Fidelous charm on the house then the Ministry would not be able to send Harry post by owl and Dobby would not have been able to find Harry's house.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 2, 2004 11:54 am (#2070 of 2923)
The Fidelous charm dosen't work on places but the actual people but i see what you mean about the Dursley's guests and so on, Aunt Marge for instance! Well there goes that theory!
Will be interesting to find out what else Dumbledore has up his sleve if Harry's Blood protection is no longer valid?!
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Nicole Bloom - Dec 2, 2004 10:55 pm (#2071 of 2923)
As well with the Fidelous Charm, when Harry was at trial for the Dementor attack, Dumbledorebrings in Mrs.Figg as a witness. When she says she lives in Little Whinging, close to Harry Potter, Madam Bones replies, "We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter...That situation has always been closely monitored, given..given past events." (OotP, page 131 American Edition)
My arguement is that if the Fidelous Charm had been used, the Ministry of Magic wouldn't even know of his whereabouts. And the fact that the "situation has always been closely monitored" leads me to believe that the Ministry has been keeping tabs on him as well.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 3, 2004 4:08 am (#2072 of 2923)
I'd forgotten that little bit. You'd think though that if the Ministry were doing their job then they'd have know the dementors were there! Just goes to show how inept some of the Ministry are.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 3, 2004 10:07 am (#2073 of 2923)
Voldemort remarked in the graveyard that he hadn't been able touch Harry while Harry was in his relations' care. Voldemort did not say words to the effect that he couldn't find Harry at Harry's relatives' place.
Seems to me he'd learned, likely through Pettigrew and/or Quirrell, where Harry lived during the summers. After all, it was no big secret that Harry had been sent to live with Muggles. In making plans to kidnap Harry, he had ruled out grabbing him at #4, opting instead to have Harry snatched from Hogwarts via a Portkey.
Now that Voldemort apparently has overcome the "blood sacrifice protection" (for lack of a better phrase), and he's got supporters like Bellatrix with him, I think he's going to mount some sort of attack at #4 this next summer.
That's not to say an attack will succeed. After all, Lucius Malfoy probably told Voldemort all about the Dementor attack out in the street and how Harry fended off the attack by using a Patronus. Right after the attack, Harry was told to stay in the house. Seems to me the house remained some sort of safe haven.
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Joelle - Dec 3, 2004 10:44 am (#2074 of 2923)
It could be Harry as a person who was protected under the Fidelus Charm. And there could be a large number of people who know that he is there. Obviously the Ministry would know, since they have to keep tabs on Harry. Considering Dolores Umbridge was the one who set the Dementors on Harry ... the logical conclusion being that the DE's don't know where he is. It's highly probable that everyone in the wizarding world knew that Harry was going into hiding. I mean -why else don't they have a Harry Potter show (similar to the truman show) if he was going to be in "public eye"
I hope this makes some sense.
-Joelle
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Hogs Head - Dec 3, 2004 12:54 pm (#2075 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
I know there has been much discussion about how the Fidelius Charm works exactly (such as the question about whether it works on people of places), but I think that is not quite so clear from the books themselves.
There was or used to be a thread on that charm -- did it get munched? If so, too bad.
My theory (as good or bad as anyone's) was that there were 3 elements -- the secret keeper, the secret keep (secure place) and the one protected in the keep. Some disagreed, of course. Pre-OoP books might have tended to support other theories but, in my humble view, this was the best construction in view of the plot line of OoP and the 12 Grimmauld Place events.
So in my theory of it:
To find the keep (place), you need an invitation from the keeper.
The keeper can keep the secret well (like Dumbledore) or betray the protected one (like Wormtail).
The place cannot be found except upon the invitation. Perhaps 12 Grimmauld has other protections, but this also seems to have been the case for Godric Hollow.
The protected one can of course, like Sirius, leave the keep and thus expose himself to harm. He could, I suppose, go to the grocery store, go next door to visit neighbors, or go to the MoM to rescue Harry, all of which could variously affect the effectiveness of the charm's protection.
Thus the charm according to Hogs Head.
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kabloink! - Dec 3, 2004 12:56 pm (#2076 of 2923)
Optician's Assistant
I can't see there being a Fidelus Charm on Harry, himself, as EVERYONE is able to see him, not just a select group of people who might have been notified by a secret keeper. I can't understand what the use of the charn would be if they can see him outside, but not in his house, which has protection of its own.
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mollis - Dec 3, 2004 1:38 pm (#2077 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 3, 2004 12:40 pm
I like your idea Hogs Head, but my take on the spell is slightly different. I believe that the Fidelius Charm can be used to protect people or places, but is not usually used to protect both at the same time.
For example (and please forgive me for not having the exact quotes to support this idea right now), in Case #1, when James, Lily and Harry were protected it was said that Voldy could look in their living room window and not see them. In this case the people were the most important aspect of the protection. The house didn't matter. Although, the spell may only be effective in a certain location. If they had left their house, maybe they would become visible.
In case #2, where #12 Grimmauld Place is protected, the entire house has vanished from a muggle street and is revealed only after the secret keeper has revealed it's address. In this case it is the house that needs to be hidden because it is headquarters of the OOTP. The members of the order come and go and are not known, for the most part, by Voldy. So they do not need to be protected.
Both cases require a secret keeper to cast the spell and keep the secret. I think that it is all in the incantation - you either protect a place(s) or person(s). I don't think it is able to protect or hide both the place and the people at the same time, nor do I think that would be necessary. Am I making sense here? I just figure that at some point, when casting the spell, you just say what you want to be hidden. And it's hidden.
As for Harry, I don't think that he is protected by a Fidelius Charm at all. I think there is a different kind of magic that is still in effect at #4 Privet Dr.
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Saud - Dec 5, 2004 3:45 am (#2078 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 5, 2004 2:48 am
I agree with you Mollis. Also, the blood-sarifice-protection was there until the end of 4th year and no attacks were done on Harry. But why would the DE's attack Harry anyways? They know that LV is powerless, maybe even dead, so attacking the hero of the WW would be like committing suicide. Plus, they won't even get any recognition for their work for there is no LV. And many many of the DE's were residing in Azkaban during those 4 years; The others had made a good name for themselves in the WW. They wouldn't want to lose that. Another thing is that Harry is being closely watched by the good-side.
But once LV comes back to power, everything changes. Blood-sacrifice protection gone(maybe, not sure what exactly it is), Many DE's break out of Azkaban, loyalty for the Dark Lord returns, and Harry actually gets attacked by Dementors. More attacks to follow? Maybe.
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Scales - Dec 7, 2004 1:14 am (#2079 of 2923)
aka Miss Granger
Sorry for being stupid, but I've been so busy and haven't had time to check if there has been a release date yet. Anyone know?
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schoff - Dec 7, 2004 1:22 am (#2080 of 2923)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
No, there is no official release date yet.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 7, 2004 10:19 am (#2081 of 2923)
Rumors persist that the release will come in June. Please, oh please. I can hardly wait.
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Phoenix song - Dec 7, 2004 11:43 am (#2082 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Scales: On the Leaky Cauldron website there is a list that you can sign in which you will be notified via e-mail or text message as to the release date of the HBP as soon as it is made official. I'd recommend signing up just as a backup notification system.
Barbie
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Classicsquid592 - Dec 7, 2004 6:30 pm (#2083 of 2923)
So far as I know, the rumours about the release date being announced in January are still out there. That is what I am hoping for.
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Eliza - Dec 10, 2004 9:11 am (#2084 of 2923)
Mugglenet just posted the following:
More book chains get HBP memo Another book store memo has been passed along to us, this time from a large Australian chain. We can't type it out, but here's the gist if it:
The memo read similar to the Waldenbooks one that we posted a few weeks ago: to expect a release date in January for a probable summer release. There aren't any specific sources cited in the memo, and the tone is more speculatory, but we thought it was worth mentioning.
Also check out JK's site, she has a new news article, 3 more rumors, and a new site winner.
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Aurora Gubbins - Dec 10, 2004 11:02 am (#2085 of 2923)
Eliza: Shame on you for making me neglect the eating habits of my children!!
I'm so excited looking at all the new words. Looks like even JK herself was fed up of waiting for stuff to happen.
There's a new FAQ poll, in which I cast my vote for the Neville question, and there are other questions which look like they were taken from the Open Letter.
Goody! Goody! (Rubs hands in glee!!!)
Aurora xx
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Eliza - Dec 10, 2004 4:34 pm (#2086 of 2923)
Aurora, thanks for pointing those out. She had not added those earlier today when I checked. She has also stated in Rubbish that NOBODY has EVER called her Joanie. Which is good in my opinion. It kinda makes me think of a family singing group. Great apologies to anyone that I may have offended. And I voted for Neville too.
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Flutterby - Dec 10, 2004 9:32 pm (#2087 of 2923)
Where do you all find the polls? Am I blind?
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Mrdrama - Dec 11, 2004 12:31 am (#2088 of 2923)
If you click on the group of paper clips on her desk on the main page, you get a bunch of envelopes. Click on the one that says "About the Books", and at the bottom of the list it says something like "FAQ poll." Click there and you can choose the question you want to vote for! I hope that answers your question.
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Liz Mann - Dec 14, 2004 1:53 pm (#2089 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Guys, The Leaky Cauldron just posted this:
Extremely perceptive reader Kara has notified us that the "Welcome" note on JKRowling.com's front page has changed slightly from this:
"This is where I can tell you the truth about rumours or news stories, where I can share the extra information I haven't put in the books, where I can give you hints and clues about what's going to happen to Harry next, and where I can announce I've finished book six... and no, that's not going to happen very soon."
To this:
"This is where I can tell you the truth about rumours or news stories, where I can share the extra information I haven't put in the books, where I can give you hints and clues about what's going to happen to Harry next, and where I can announce I've finished book seven... and no, that's not going to happen very soon."
So does this mean book six is done, nearly done...?
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Gina R Snape - Dec 14, 2004 2:04 pm (#2090 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oooooh, nice catch Liz!
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Eliza - Dec 14, 2004 4:00 pm (#2091 of 2923)
My personal thought is to keep an eye on the advent calender on her extras page. I have a feeling that the candy "treats" behind the doors are a forbearer of what's to come.
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Medulla - Dec 14, 2004 6:04 pm (#2092 of 2923)
Ok this is going to be a rather random observation. However, I heard read/ saw (actually I have no idea of the source) that JK said she was really happy about the "accidental" clues in the POA movie. These are things that the director took the liberty of adding and Jo said that we would look back and think they were designed as clues to future books.
With that in mind I re-watched the movie in search of such clues and focused on the scene where The boys are in there dorm and eating lollies which give you animal properties (This obviously doesn't happen in the book). Ron eats the lion one- this make me think of our lion like friend from the description clue. I wonder if he is a relation to the Weasleys????
My apologies if this is posted on the incorrect thread- I wanted to post in the new clue- who? thread, but it is no longer available.
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Liz Mann - Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm (#2093 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think it is currently being dicussed on the PoA movie thread. Or has been recently.
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Grindylow - Dec 15, 2004 7:50 pm (#2094 of 2923)
Hi All! I just got home from church and found an email from Amazon.com regarding HPB. I had asked to be notified when the book would be available for purchase and the email said that they had been notified by their suppliers that it would not be available in the "forseeable future". Anyone else get this email?
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Courtney22 - Dec 15, 2004 8:02 pm (#2095 of 2923)
Grindylow I got the same email I was wondering what it is supposed to mean, I asked to be informed when it WILL be released not when it WONT be released. It was kind of annoying
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Grindylow - Dec 15, 2004 8:05 pm (#2096 of 2923)
Yes, I agree Courtney....I was very excited to see an email regarding HBP until I read it...
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Ginerva Potter - Dec 15, 2004 9:05 pm (#2097 of 2923)
I know!!!! I got it, too. I was so excited when I saw Half-Blood Prince from Amazon only to have my rising hopes dashed by horrible, dispicable news!! Why would they do that to us?!
Ginny
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Ainsley Black - Dec 16, 2004 5:35 am (#2098 of 2923)
wonder why i didn't get that email? Maybe it wasn't issued in the UK.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 16, 2004 8:11 am (#2099 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I am thinking that JKR's publicity people got out the word that publishers and suppliers had better shut-up about a release date until it was official from JKR. Or else!!!!
Mikie
I believe your emails were just Amazon covering their _ _ _ _ _.
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Hollywand - Dec 16, 2004 9:45 am (#2100 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Mikie, Why, oh why, would Amzon be covering their River? ;-)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Just a quick thought, if Petunia dies then surely Dudley would become the next in line to protect Harry, he does after all have Petunia's blood and therefore Lily's!
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 8:22 am (#2052 of 2923)
As I said above, Ainsley, Dudley is half Dursley, so will his blood have the same "protection factor" that Auntie Petunia's has? Also, if something happens and Aunt Pet isn't there to make Uncle Vernon take Harry, well ... I suppose it's possible that with age, Dudley may improve in his treatment of Harry, but I'm not counting on it. If he does, though, it might be Dudley who will serve as the protector. I can only say it will be interesting to see what happens with regard to that whole situation.
I believe that Harry's "shortest stay" will be somehow connected to a change of some sort in the "protection factor" that has always kept him safe at Privet Drive.
Solitaire
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scoop2172000 - Dec 1, 2004 10:06 am (#2053 of 2923)
I think the reason behind Harry's short stay at Privet Drive will be because the Dursley's house proves to be no longer safe for him.
Harry's blood (and thus Lily's) was one of the ingredients in Voldemort's resurrection potion. Thus, Voldemort now shares in that blood. He was able to touch Harry in the graveyard.
The summer before Harry's fifth year, the Order kept a watch on him for his own protection, and it's my belief they did this because Dumbledore feared (correctly, it turned out) there might be some sort of attack on Harry during the summer holidays.
My guess is there will be an even-more determined attack on Harry this next summer, possibly from Death Eaters who escape Azkaban a second time and/or Death Eaters still on the loose (Bellatrix, Pettigrew, etc.)
Too, I predict this coming summer will be the final time Harry gets shipped back to Privet Drive. Once it proves to be no longer safe, Dumbledore will arrange a new safe-house (Spinners End?)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Sirius get his own place at age 16? Harry will turn 16 this coming summer. I wonder whether he has to wait until he comes of age at 17 to leave his aunt and uncle's guardianship or if he can do so sooner.
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 11:47 am (#2054 of 2923)
Quite honestly, I doubt the Dursleys--well, Uncle Vernon, anyway--would mind at all if Harry left their home. Since the Dementor attack, they are now aware of the danger surrounding him and, by extension, Dudley and themselves.
As long as Privet Drive does continue to afford some protection, I believe Dumbledore will insist that Harry spend some of his time there each year, even if it is only a few days. If, however, that protection ceases to exist at Privet, I doubt Dumbledore will force Harry to endure the misery for no reason.
I'm sure the Weasleys would be more than happy to offer Harry a home, until Dumbledore feels he is ready to stand on his own. Frankly, he probably could fend for himself quite well. Personally, however, I believe Harry needs the warmth and emotional closeness of a family. He has never really had it, and the Weasleys seem to offer love and caring in abundance. Yes, Mrs. Weasley is overprotective to the point of being occasionally suffocating; but to a kid like Harry, a little nurturing might be a welcome nuisance to endure for a little while. JM2K (Just my 2 knuts)...
Solitaire
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Hollywand - Dec 1, 2004 1:02 pm (#2055 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I actually like imagining a different scenario where Harry Potter gets transformed instantly into the Man of the House at 4 Privet:
If Voldemort and company show up in Little Whinging, 4 Privet, with a distinct hatred of muggles, and Harry's the only one capable of defending the entire family from a terrifying, albeit magical, death.....Vernon and Dudley whimpering beneath the cupboard under the stairs with the spiders....pleading with Harry to pleeezeee stay..... ;-)
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 1, 2004 1:40 pm (#2056 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
When I expoused ideas similar to the last few posts back in July and August, I was admonished that the blood is not the only protection tied to #4 Privet Drive. It was pointed out to me that DD has added protections above Petunia's blood that protects Harry while there. Thus making an attack on #4 unlikely.
I did not believe it then and I do not now. If anything now that Voldemort is out in the open where better to start the war than #4 and test the protections that DD put on the residence while keeping the heat on Harry.
Mikie
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Hollywand - Dec 1, 2004 2:07 pm (#2057 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Agreed, Mikie.
If Voldemort is able to circumvent Dumbledore's protection at Hogwarts, during Quidditch matches and the Triwizard Tournament, I believe the Dark Lord can figure out a way to invade 4 Privet.
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Hogs Head - Dec 1, 2004 3:25 pm (#2058 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
Yet I think that his early departure in Book 6, while perhaps related to an attack, will not necessarily indicate a failure or even degradation per se of the protective strengths of 4 Privet Drive. I suspect that the safe-haven nature of 4 Privet will come into play again in Book 7.
So, as I've said before, I think Harry will have to go to summer school, either to bone up at last on leglimency or else to do remedial work to bring up a poor Owl grade, etc.
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Mrdrama - Dec 1, 2004 8:53 pm (#2059 of 2923)
Hogs Head, I love the idea of Summer School for Harry to bring up an Owl grade. I think it's obvious that it would be potions, and possibly History and/or Astronomy. That would explain alot. That could also explain the chapter "Draco's Detour." He could be going to Summer School too.
I am hoping that our Christmas present from JKR will be a date when we can find out all these things!!!
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Eliza - Dec 1, 2004 9:20 pm (#2060 of 2923)
Well it is not like any of the Dursleys board themselves into the house. The most logical time of attack would be Dudley's birthday. At this point the Dursleys are separated from Harry and Harry is at Ms. Figgs' house. At that point, the DE's could mount simultaneous attacks on the Dursleys and Harry. Since Dudley's birthday is near the beginning of the summer, that would definitely make for a short stay. If I am wrong about the date of Dudley's birthday, then I am sorry please correct me and ignore that idea.
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Solitaire - Dec 1, 2004 9:53 pm (#2061 of 2923)
According to PS/SS: "The escape of the Brazilian Boa Constrictor earned Harry his longest-ever punishment. By the time he was allowed out of his cupboard again, the summer holidays had started and Dudley had already broken his new video camera ..." That camera was one of his birthday presents, so his birthday had to be before summer holidays began.
Depending how long that punishment was and when their summer holidays begin, Dudley's birthday would seem to be sometime between May and early June. Will Harry be back home from Hogwarts before the Dud celebrates his big day? Probably not if it is that early. But I could also be wrong about the dates.
It does seem, however, that the Dursleys were willing to leave Harry alone last summer--the night they were sent on the wild goose chase after that Most Beautiful Lawn award (or whatever it was) that Tonks dreamed up, so that the Advance Guard could fetch him away. I can see them being gone for some other reason (a business dinner?) but I wonder ... would the DEs and/or Voldemort be able to get at Harry as long as he was in the house?
When Harry got all those owls after the Dementor attack, they all stressed the importance of staying in the house. Is it the house itself or Aunt Petunia's presence or a combination of the two that gives the protection? I wish I knew! Whatever the case, Eliza, I still think your idea has as much merit as any other proposal I've seen.
Solitaire
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Ainsley Black - Dec 2, 2004 4:22 am (#2062 of 2923)
If there is a Fidelus Charm for Harry then i would think that maybe it has something to do with him Staying in the house, i've always thought that the way it works is that it works while the person hiding is in a certain place, like #4, and it is only in this location that the person cannot be seen, hence why the Dementors went for Harry outside the house and not in the actual house (where it would have been much easier). If you look at how the charm has been described before (all be it in little detail) this seems to work, i think!
If anyone has a better understanding of the charm be welcome to pull my theory apart! Lol
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Gerald Costales - Dec 2, 2004 5:54 am (#2063 of 2923)
Isn't 12GP unplotable? Sirius's dad went to great measures to make it safe. One of the many precautions that Dumbledore may have performed, is to make 4 Privet Dr. unplotable.
I never thought of the Fidelus Charm. But,just as important as how the charm works is who is the Secret Keeper. Wormtail was James & Lily's Secret Keeper and we all know what happened.
If Dumbledore is 4 Privet Dr. Secret Keeper, which makes sense to me, then Harry should be okay while at the Durselys. ;-) GC
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Daisy Pennifold - Dec 2, 2004 7:18 am (#2064 of 2923)
The Weasley's have been to the Dursley's at least twice though. Would they have been able to find the house if it is under the Fidelius Charm?
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Kerrie-Louise - Dec 2, 2004 7:46 am (#2065 of 2923)
Also Professor McGonagall, Hagrid and Mrs Figg. I think this would eleminate the Fidelius Charm as an idea. Unless a charm can be modified somehow.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 2, 2004 8:28 am (#2066 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Kerrie-Louise also all of the members of the order who picked Harry up in OotP. And Mundamus(sp)also know the location. I think if the Fidelus Charm has been used their are alot op people who know about it.
Mikie
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Eliza - Dec 2, 2004 9:12 am (#2067 of 2923)
I still think that there will be a point when he is at Ms. Figg's and the Dursleys are out. The point is, he needs to be out of the house and stuck somewhere. Chances are that Ms. Figg would know this was a danger and they may even be in the street trying to sneak back to the Dursleys house while they are gone. As for the dementor attack, remember that was planned by Umbridge and she wanted exposure to get Harry in the most trouble possible, so she probably told them to attack in the street with hopes that others would be present.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 2, 2004 10:31 am (#2068 of 2923)
As i understand it the Fidelous charm works this way;
the Secret Keeper is the only one who can tell you where the person is and only then can you see them (HArry is given the Address of #12 on a piece of parchment written by Dumbledore)
I would think that Dumbledore told those of Harry's escort to #12 the exact address as well as Mrs Figg.
As far as the Weasley's i kinda come unstuck in thinking (well asuming)that because Harry has told Ron and the others where he lives at #4 it works that way too!
Any ideas anyone as to if this is right or not?
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Eliza - Dec 2, 2004 11:47 am (#2069 of 2923)
I would think that the Dursleys could not have such a charm on their house because then they would have a little trouble having regular guests, the postman, the milkman and various other everyday things. I think people know where Harry lives and can see it I just think that there are some sort of protective charms that keep him safe while he is in the home of his mother's sister. I think it has to do with Aunt Petunia but that she doesn't have to be present. It there was a Fidelous charm on the house then the Ministry would not be able to send Harry post by owl and Dobby would not have been able to find Harry's house.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 2, 2004 11:54 am (#2070 of 2923)
The Fidelous charm dosen't work on places but the actual people but i see what you mean about the Dursley's guests and so on, Aunt Marge for instance! Well there goes that theory!
Will be interesting to find out what else Dumbledore has up his sleve if Harry's Blood protection is no longer valid?!
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Nicole Bloom - Dec 2, 2004 10:55 pm (#2071 of 2923)
As well with the Fidelous Charm, when Harry was at trial for the Dementor attack, Dumbledorebrings in Mrs.Figg as a witness. When she says she lives in Little Whinging, close to Harry Potter, Madam Bones replies, "We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter...That situation has always been closely monitored, given..given past events." (OotP, page 131 American Edition)
My arguement is that if the Fidelous Charm had been used, the Ministry of Magic wouldn't even know of his whereabouts. And the fact that the "situation has always been closely monitored" leads me to believe that the Ministry has been keeping tabs on him as well.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 3, 2004 4:08 am (#2072 of 2923)
I'd forgotten that little bit. You'd think though that if the Ministry were doing their job then they'd have know the dementors were there! Just goes to show how inept some of the Ministry are.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 3, 2004 10:07 am (#2073 of 2923)
Voldemort remarked in the graveyard that he hadn't been able touch Harry while Harry was in his relations' care. Voldemort did not say words to the effect that he couldn't find Harry at Harry's relatives' place.
Seems to me he'd learned, likely through Pettigrew and/or Quirrell, where Harry lived during the summers. After all, it was no big secret that Harry had been sent to live with Muggles. In making plans to kidnap Harry, he had ruled out grabbing him at #4, opting instead to have Harry snatched from Hogwarts via a Portkey.
Now that Voldemort apparently has overcome the "blood sacrifice protection" (for lack of a better phrase), and he's got supporters like Bellatrix with him, I think he's going to mount some sort of attack at #4 this next summer.
That's not to say an attack will succeed. After all, Lucius Malfoy probably told Voldemort all about the Dementor attack out in the street and how Harry fended off the attack by using a Patronus. Right after the attack, Harry was told to stay in the house. Seems to me the house remained some sort of safe haven.
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Joelle - Dec 3, 2004 10:44 am (#2074 of 2923)
It could be Harry as a person who was protected under the Fidelus Charm. And there could be a large number of people who know that he is there. Obviously the Ministry would know, since they have to keep tabs on Harry. Considering Dolores Umbridge was the one who set the Dementors on Harry ... the logical conclusion being that the DE's don't know where he is. It's highly probable that everyone in the wizarding world knew that Harry was going into hiding. I mean -why else don't they have a Harry Potter show (similar to the truman show) if he was going to be in "public eye"
I hope this makes some sense.
-Joelle
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Hogs Head - Dec 3, 2004 12:54 pm (#2075 of 2923)
Premium Pork But Not Premium HP Member Anymore - Wah!
I know there has been much discussion about how the Fidelius Charm works exactly (such as the question about whether it works on people of places), but I think that is not quite so clear from the books themselves.
There was or used to be a thread on that charm -- did it get munched? If so, too bad.
My theory (as good or bad as anyone's) was that there were 3 elements -- the secret keeper, the secret keep (secure place) and the one protected in the keep. Some disagreed, of course. Pre-OoP books might have tended to support other theories but, in my humble view, this was the best construction in view of the plot line of OoP and the 12 Grimmauld Place events.
So in my theory of it:
To find the keep (place), you need an invitation from the keeper.
The keeper can keep the secret well (like Dumbledore) or betray the protected one (like Wormtail).
The place cannot be found except upon the invitation. Perhaps 12 Grimmauld has other protections, but this also seems to have been the case for Godric Hollow.
The protected one can of course, like Sirius, leave the keep and thus expose himself to harm. He could, I suppose, go to the grocery store, go next door to visit neighbors, or go to the MoM to rescue Harry, all of which could variously affect the effectiveness of the charm's protection.
Thus the charm according to Hogs Head.
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kabloink! - Dec 3, 2004 12:56 pm (#2076 of 2923)
Optician's Assistant
I can't see there being a Fidelus Charm on Harry, himself, as EVERYONE is able to see him, not just a select group of people who might have been notified by a secret keeper. I can't understand what the use of the charn would be if they can see him outside, but not in his house, which has protection of its own.
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mollis - Dec 3, 2004 1:38 pm (#2077 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 3, 2004 12:40 pm
I like your idea Hogs Head, but my take on the spell is slightly different. I believe that the Fidelius Charm can be used to protect people or places, but is not usually used to protect both at the same time.
For example (and please forgive me for not having the exact quotes to support this idea right now), in Case #1, when James, Lily and Harry were protected it was said that Voldy could look in their living room window and not see them. In this case the people were the most important aspect of the protection. The house didn't matter. Although, the spell may only be effective in a certain location. If they had left their house, maybe they would become visible.
In case #2, where #12 Grimmauld Place is protected, the entire house has vanished from a muggle street and is revealed only after the secret keeper has revealed it's address. In this case it is the house that needs to be hidden because it is headquarters of the OOTP. The members of the order come and go and are not known, for the most part, by Voldy. So they do not need to be protected.
Both cases require a secret keeper to cast the spell and keep the secret. I think that it is all in the incantation - you either protect a place(s) or person(s). I don't think it is able to protect or hide both the place and the people at the same time, nor do I think that would be necessary. Am I making sense here? I just figure that at some point, when casting the spell, you just say what you want to be hidden. And it's hidden.
As for Harry, I don't think that he is protected by a Fidelius Charm at all. I think there is a different kind of magic that is still in effect at #4 Privet Dr.
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Saud - Dec 5, 2004 3:45 am (#2078 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 5, 2004 2:48 am
I agree with you Mollis. Also, the blood-sarifice-protection was there until the end of 4th year and no attacks were done on Harry. But why would the DE's attack Harry anyways? They know that LV is powerless, maybe even dead, so attacking the hero of the WW would be like committing suicide. Plus, they won't even get any recognition for their work for there is no LV. And many many of the DE's were residing in Azkaban during those 4 years; The others had made a good name for themselves in the WW. They wouldn't want to lose that. Another thing is that Harry is being closely watched by the good-side.
But once LV comes back to power, everything changes. Blood-sacrifice protection gone(maybe, not sure what exactly it is), Many DE's break out of Azkaban, loyalty for the Dark Lord returns, and Harry actually gets attacked by Dementors. More attacks to follow? Maybe.
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Scales - Dec 7, 2004 1:14 am (#2079 of 2923)
aka Miss Granger
Sorry for being stupid, but I've been so busy and haven't had time to check if there has been a release date yet. Anyone know?
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schoff - Dec 7, 2004 1:22 am (#2080 of 2923)
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
No, there is no official release date yet.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 7, 2004 10:19 am (#2081 of 2923)
Rumors persist that the release will come in June. Please, oh please. I can hardly wait.
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Phoenix song - Dec 7, 2004 11:43 am (#2082 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Scales: On the Leaky Cauldron website there is a list that you can sign in which you will be notified via e-mail or text message as to the release date of the HBP as soon as it is made official. I'd recommend signing up just as a backup notification system.
Barbie
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Classicsquid592 - Dec 7, 2004 6:30 pm (#2083 of 2923)
So far as I know, the rumours about the release date being announced in January are still out there. That is what I am hoping for.
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Eliza - Dec 10, 2004 9:11 am (#2084 of 2923)
Mugglenet just posted the following:
More book chains get HBP memo Another book store memo has been passed along to us, this time from a large Australian chain. We can't type it out, but here's the gist if it:
The memo read similar to the Waldenbooks one that we posted a few weeks ago: to expect a release date in January for a probable summer release. There aren't any specific sources cited in the memo, and the tone is more speculatory, but we thought it was worth mentioning.
Also check out JK's site, she has a new news article, 3 more rumors, and a new site winner.
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Aurora Gubbins - Dec 10, 2004 11:02 am (#2085 of 2923)
Eliza: Shame on you for making me neglect the eating habits of my children!!
I'm so excited looking at all the new words. Looks like even JK herself was fed up of waiting for stuff to happen.
There's a new FAQ poll, in which I cast my vote for the Neville question, and there are other questions which look like they were taken from the Open Letter.
Goody! Goody! (Rubs hands in glee!!!)
Aurora xx
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Eliza - Dec 10, 2004 4:34 pm (#2086 of 2923)
Aurora, thanks for pointing those out. She had not added those earlier today when I checked. She has also stated in Rubbish that NOBODY has EVER called her Joanie. Which is good in my opinion. It kinda makes me think of a family singing group. Great apologies to anyone that I may have offended. And I voted for Neville too.
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Flutterby - Dec 10, 2004 9:32 pm (#2087 of 2923)
Where do you all find the polls? Am I blind?
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Mrdrama - Dec 11, 2004 12:31 am (#2088 of 2923)
If you click on the group of paper clips on her desk on the main page, you get a bunch of envelopes. Click on the one that says "About the Books", and at the bottom of the list it says something like "FAQ poll." Click there and you can choose the question you want to vote for! I hope that answers your question.
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Liz Mann - Dec 14, 2004 1:53 pm (#2089 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Guys, The Leaky Cauldron just posted this:
Extremely perceptive reader Kara has notified us that the "Welcome" note on JKRowling.com's front page has changed slightly from this:
"This is where I can tell you the truth about rumours or news stories, where I can share the extra information I haven't put in the books, where I can give you hints and clues about what's going to happen to Harry next, and where I can announce I've finished book six... and no, that's not going to happen very soon."
To this:
"This is where I can tell you the truth about rumours or news stories, where I can share the extra information I haven't put in the books, where I can give you hints and clues about what's going to happen to Harry next, and where I can announce I've finished book seven... and no, that's not going to happen very soon."
So does this mean book six is done, nearly done...?
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Gina R Snape - Dec 14, 2004 2:04 pm (#2090 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oooooh, nice catch Liz!
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Eliza - Dec 14, 2004 4:00 pm (#2091 of 2923)
My personal thought is to keep an eye on the advent calender on her extras page. I have a feeling that the candy "treats" behind the doors are a forbearer of what's to come.
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Medulla - Dec 14, 2004 6:04 pm (#2092 of 2923)
Ok this is going to be a rather random observation. However, I heard read/ saw (actually I have no idea of the source) that JK said she was really happy about the "accidental" clues in the POA movie. These are things that the director took the liberty of adding and Jo said that we would look back and think they were designed as clues to future books.
With that in mind I re-watched the movie in search of such clues and focused on the scene where The boys are in there dorm and eating lollies which give you animal properties (This obviously doesn't happen in the book). Ron eats the lion one- this make me think of our lion like friend from the description clue. I wonder if he is a relation to the Weasleys????
My apologies if this is posted on the incorrect thread- I wanted to post in the new clue- who? thread, but it is no longer available.
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Liz Mann - Dec 15, 2004 2:38 pm (#2093 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think it is currently being dicussed on the PoA movie thread. Or has been recently.
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Grindylow - Dec 15, 2004 7:50 pm (#2094 of 2923)
Hi All! I just got home from church and found an email from Amazon.com regarding HPB. I had asked to be notified when the book would be available for purchase and the email said that they had been notified by their suppliers that it would not be available in the "forseeable future". Anyone else get this email?
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Courtney22 - Dec 15, 2004 8:02 pm (#2095 of 2923)
Grindylow I got the same email I was wondering what it is supposed to mean, I asked to be informed when it WILL be released not when it WONT be released. It was kind of annoying
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Grindylow - Dec 15, 2004 8:05 pm (#2096 of 2923)
Yes, I agree Courtney....I was very excited to see an email regarding HBP until I read it...
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Ginerva Potter - Dec 15, 2004 9:05 pm (#2097 of 2923)
I know!!!! I got it, too. I was so excited when I saw Half-Blood Prince from Amazon only to have my rising hopes dashed by horrible, dispicable news!! Why would they do that to us?!
Ginny
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Ainsley Black - Dec 16, 2004 5:35 am (#2098 of 2923)
wonder why i didn't get that email? Maybe it wasn't issued in the UK.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 16, 2004 8:11 am (#2099 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I am thinking that JKR's publicity people got out the word that publishers and suppliers had better shut-up about a release date until it was official from JKR. Or else!!!!
Mikie
I believe your emails were just Amazon covering their _ _ _ _ _.
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Hollywand - Dec 16, 2004 9:45 am (#2100 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Mikie, Why, oh why, would Amzon be covering their River? ;-)
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2101 to 2150)
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 16, 2004 3:21 pm (#2101 of 2923)
It could be that amazon does not want a repeat that incident in which a bookstore put out copies of OotP two days early and was subsequently barred from saying HP merchandise in the future.
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Phoenix song - Dec 16, 2004 3:34 pm (#2102 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
The Leaky Cauldron has put out a report on those odd e-mails sent by Amazon. They're reporting that it seems to be some sort of form letter glitch that was sent out by mistake. Perhaps the wrong item number was input or something. Apparently the e-mail went on to further state something to the effect that you could try and purchase the books second handed, and we KNOW that's not possible. This would give more credence to the "it's a mistake" theory than anything else.
I'm taking the "update" on her welcome page on the website as a good sign. If she's writing that she's going to use the website to inform us of when book SEVEN is completed, then it MUST be that she's working on book seven now...and is finished with book 6.
Barbie
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Grindylow - Dec 16, 2004 7:20 pm (#2103 of 2923)
I agree with you Phoenix Song...I hope the Amazon letter was a "glitch". I can't wait until it is released. My daughter told me that we shouldn't read it the minute we buy it because then we will be waiting for book seven and will be depressed because it isn't out yet!!! I told her she could wait if she wanted to, but that I would probably be reading as we stood in line waiting to pay for it!!!!
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mooncalf - Dec 16, 2004 10:27 pm (#2104 of 2923)
I just got another message fgrom Amazon:
Greetings from Amazon.com.
We're writing to correct a recent e-mail notification that we sent about "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (Book 6)."
In our e-mail, we stated that this title would not be immediately available from our suppliers, and that you may want to search for it elsewhere. While it's true that "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" is not yet ready for eager readers, we do plan to notify you by e-mail when this book is available for pre-order on our web site.
We assure you that howlers have been sent to the muggles responsible for this action and we are investigating the possibility that You-Know-Who may have been involved.
We apologize for the incorrect notification that you received. Thank you for shopping at Amazon.com.
Sincerely,
Customer Service Amazon.com
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Nicole Bloom - Dec 16, 2004 11:00 pm (#2105 of 2923)
That is the greatest thing I have ever read from a book company
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The giant squid - Dec 17, 2004 2:28 am (#2106 of 2923)
At least they have a sense of humor about the whole thing. I get the impression that a few of the higher-ups at Amazon Customer Service were on that mailing list.
--Mike
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Aurora Gubbins - Dec 17, 2004 2:46 am (#2107 of 2923)
I, too have just read the book six/book seven thing. At first I thought it was a typo (6/7) until I saw it was the word and not the figure! OOOH! GOODY!!!
I bet Jo was sitting at home rubbing her hands in glee and laughing maniacally when she slipped that one in!
Thanks Jo Aurora xx
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Grindylow - Dec 17, 2004 3:23 pm (#2108 of 2923)
I got the letter from Amazon too and thought it was a HOOT! I loved their use of "muggles" and "you know who".
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Her-melanie - Dec 17, 2004 7:12 pm (#2109 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Hope this isn't too off-topic, but I had my first Potter-related dream the other night. It was my subconscious mind's own stab at what is coming in HBP! It started off with Voldemort talking to Wormtail about Luna Lovegood. He was saying, "She is stronger than she looks, Wormtail; she will do the job well." Basically, Luna Lovegood is actually working for Voldemort, and he transfers some powers to her and sends her into the Chamber of Secrets to call forth the other basilisks hiding in it. Then she lures Harry down there to fight them or something. In my dream, Voldemort considered Luna the perfect spy because he figured no one would suspect a Ravenclaw. I seem to remember it being much more detailed, but that's all I can remember now. I guess my subconscious isn't too creative. [btw, can anyone tell me what happened to my avatar and gold star?]
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Grindylow - Dec 17, 2004 8:11 pm (#2110 of 2923)
Her-Melanie...if you aren't a premium subscriber, you lose the gold star and the avatar...
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hellocello3200 - Dec 18, 2004 8:29 am (#2111 of 2923)
Her-melanie, your dream at least makes more sense than the one HP dream I had right after the PoA movie came out. It involved Snape throwing jewlry from a bargain bin at death eaters as the trio escaped on a giant bus shaped like a rhino along with a family of shrunken heads and then being attack by a group of girls wearing those Harry and Ron shirts they sell at Hot Topic. Seriously I'm not making that up, I really did dream that.
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Gerald Costales - Dec 18, 2004 10:27 am (#2112 of 2923)
"...if you aren't a premium subscriber, you lose the gold star and the avatar..." Grindylow
What's a premium subscriber? Really, it's all new to me. I thought the Lexicon Forum just updated things with the gold stars. I'd hate to lose my avatar. I just figured how to put it on the Forum.
As excited as the rest of you on a possible release day for the HBP. I hope Jo gives us a definite date as a X-mas present (Jo, hope you're listening)! Jo did give us those chapter titles on Halloween.
Back on topic. I hope Luna doesn't side with Voldermort. I think one of the current students could defect though. A Slytherin would be too obvious. If anyone, it would be Marietta, especially with what Hermione did with the Jinxed DA parchment and the resulting purple pimples when Marietta snitched to Umbridge. If the current students get a Wormtail (traitor), I'd vote for Marietta.
I hope the debate on the HBP doesn't end while we gaze blankly at our monitors for a release date. So, I'll get the ball rolling again.
My canidates for the HBP:
1. Dean Thomas.
Reasons: Dean's a Half-Blood. If Dean's real father (the one killed by Death Eaters) was a King or Prince then Dean would be a "Half-Blood Prince".
Dark horse canidates:
2. The lion-like character Jo mentioned on her website. The J. K. Rowling website revealed the following excerpt:
“(He) looked rather like a lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.”
Reasons: The HBP is possibly a new character. This description is probably a new character. Speculation, this possible new character is probably the "Half-Blood Prince".
This possible new character tied into my speculation that the HBP is also Godric Gryffindor. Several Gryffindor's are animagi, Prof. MaGonagall - cat; James Potter - deer (Prongs); Sirius Black - dog (Padfoot); and Peter Pettigrew - rat (Wormtail).
Other speculation, Gryffindor's mascot is a Lion because Godric Gryffindor was an animagus who turned into a Lion. The trait of being an animagi is present in four Gryffindors. So, could being an animagi be suggestive of Gryffindor House? Just like being a Parseltongue is suggestive of Slytherin House. Slytherin's mascot is a Serpent because Salazar Slytherin was a Parseltongue. Tom Riddle is a Slytherin and is also a Parseltongue. (Harry is an exception to this Parseltongues are Slytherins observation because the rebounded curse passed some of Voldermort's abilities to Harry.)
Futher speculation, McGonagall is the current Transfiguration teacher and Dumbledore was the former Transfiguration teacher. Could Dumbledore also be a Animagi like McGonagall? Probably.
Also, Godric was originally called the "Mudblood Prince" because of his love of Half-Bloods, Muggleborns, and Muggles. Over ther years the "Mudblood" insult has been soften into the more kinder "Half-Blood" term.
Doubt: Chapter 14: Felix Felicis. This name suggests a cat (felis -cat). Like Lupin's name suggested a Werewolf (lupus - wolf). Some people believe Felix Felicis is the new DADA teacher who is usually a new character.
3. Remus Lupin
Reasons: Lupin is also a Half-Blood. If Lupin was a Prince, what better way to keep Lupin off his throne then to sic a Werewolf on Lupin. (Ouch, no tenaus shot for a Werewolf bite!) Again, just like Dean we don't have enough background on Remus.
4. Rebeus Hagrid
Reason: Hagrid was my first thought when the title of book six was released. (And has Hagrid been truly eliminated as the HBP!) There is that on going debate that Hagrid is not a Half-Blood because of his Giant Blood. (A Half-Blood is like Tom Riddle and Harry - One Wizard/Witch parent and One Muggle parent.) Bunk, Hagrid is Half-Wizard and Half-Giant, by Merlin's beard Hagrid is a Half-Blood!
Doubt: Hagrid a Prince. Prince of Grounds and Keys! What Kingdom (or Principality) are we talking about people?
5. James (the Half-Blood Lover) Potter
Reason: James is a "Half-Blood Prince" because he supports Half-Bloods, Muggleborns, and Muggles. Just like we have the "Sultan of Swat", Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Don King (bad pun) etc. The "Half-Blood Prince" is a nickname not a literal title.
Merry Christmas Everybody! ;-) GC
PS And Happy Holidays!
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Grindylow - Dec 18, 2004 10:44 am (#2113 of 2923)
Gerald-A premium subscriber is someone who pays $12 per year to become a member of the Worldcrossing family. You don't have to pay the money, there are free memberships available too, but you won't be able to display your avatar or have the gold star. There are other perks to a paid subscription which you can read about in: "Our future with World Crossing" posts 1 and 2. Hope that helps!
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Veritaserum - Dec 18, 2004 4:35 pm (#2114 of 2923)
Go Jays!
That's interesting, about the title prince as a nickname. I'd thought of it as a royal title or a sarcastic nickname (weasley is our king before the big win), but maybe it is actually a positive nickname, like Gerald said about the sultan of swat, etc.
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Hawthorn Wycke - Dec 19, 2004 5:15 am (#2115 of 2923)
Yes, Madame Librarian Firenze said in Classroom 11 that “in the past decade the indication has been that wizard kind is living through nothing more than a brief calm between two wars” – WHICH WARS, I speculate WWI and WWII marking the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month.
I hope you see the relationship now. I can’t believe what’s gone on in my absence and I’ll have to learn to speak plainly in this forum.
Wishing wands, Hawthorn Wycke
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Her-melanie - Dec 19, 2004 10:06 am (#2116 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I am going to stick with my controversial idea that the HBP is Snape. The only other person besides Snape I'm going to mention is the Lion-esque man described in the ROR. Since we really don't know anything at all about him as a character, he is a definite possibility. If it is someone we have already met, my bet is Snape.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 19, 2004 1:37 pm (#2117 of 2923)
My friend and I spent a whole evening in the pub debating this when the title was released and i'm still none the wiser now!
Something JK said about Lupin being half-blood got me though because I don't think she meant it as being because of the wolf and more that one of his parents was/is a muggle (I'm not saying he is the HBP) it's just niggled at me.
Another thing that niggles me is the amount of time Justin Finch-Fletchly gets small roles in the books (I know 'what's his name' in Ravenclaw says he's muggle born) but it's the whole fell of him I guess, double-barreled name, down for Eton to go with his nemerous walk on parts in the books. Who's to say one of his parents wasn't magical and for one reason or another isn't in the picture now and he dosen't know about their magical history? (clutches at a few straws)
I really don't think it's going to be obvious if it is a character we already know to some degree.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 19, 2004 9:42 pm (#2118 of 2923)
I believe it will be someone we do not know. The Titles introduce a new person, thing, or organization. I don't think JKR will break from that pattern. My guess he is a person mentioned in passing but not a character we already know. Of course I've been wrong before... LPO
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Kerrie-Louise - Dec 20, 2004 1:11 am (#2119 of 2923)
My view is that it will be someone we have already met. I would like to say that my money is on Hagrid as I think he has a more important role yet to play in the stories, however I imagine that JKR will have kept just enough information from us to make it a surprise no matter who we guess!
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Gerald Costales - Dec 20, 2004 7:42 am (#2120 of 2923)
Hagrid was my first thought when the title was released. But, the Prince part of the title doesn't seem to apply to Hagrid. Unless the Prince is a nickname (Weasley is our King). Hagrid is certainly the Prince of Grounds and Keys at Hogwarts. Of course we don't know too much about Hagrid's dad. There is that slight chance that royality could come from the Wizard side of Hagrid and not the Giant side. Just My 2 Knuts. ;-) GC
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Denise P. - Dec 20, 2004 10:48 am (#2121 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
I deleted several posts from this thread today due to a post that was political in nature. Any post that followed that made reference to that was also deleted.
Political discussions are not appropriate for this Forum. Please do not post them, they will be deleted and if they are reposted, the person will face being placed on moderated status. This is not a politcal forum, it is a Harry Potter Forum and this thread is specifically to discuss Book 6.
If you had a post in this lot deleted and have a question about why it was, feel free to contact me via email denise at hp-lexicon.org
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Joanne R. Reid - Dec 20, 2004 10:54 am (#2122 of 2923)
I agree with the speculation that the HBP is Dean Thomas.
Like everyone else, I've been scratching my head thinking of half-bloods. This was further complicated by the definition of a half-blood. That is, Harry is the son of a wizard and a witch. By my definition that would have made him a full-blooded wizard. However, according to JKR, et al, if a parent is a child of non-magically folk, then their child is a half-blood. So, my field of possible HBPs expanded.
We've already met and explored several families, including Seamus', Hagrid's, Voldemort's, Harry's, etc. Obviously, characters such as the Weasleys, Malfoys,etc, are out because they're pure-bloods by any standard.
That leaves us with Ginny's most recent boy-friend. Only recently we discovered that the man he believes to be his father isn't. Instead, his father is an unknown wizard. Since Dean is black, is it possible that his father is a king/prince of an African tribe? If so, they could be powerful allies in the war against Voldemort and his Death Eaters.
Well, that's my contribution. I look forward to everyone's thoughts.
Bye 4 now,
Joanne
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 11:31 am (#2123 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I don't want to dash hopes, but in reply to the last few posts suggesting Hagrid, Rowling has definitely ruled him out as a candidate in an interview a few months ago.
I vote for Godric Gryffindor, as a historical figure or, hold those dungbombs, please! Viktor Krum, as a good dark art rival for Harry. A person who has been reared on the dark arts and stratification, but chooses a different pathway. Yikes, I better run now...... ;-)
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 11:35 am (#2124 of 2923)
Isn't Viktor a Pure-blood? I thought Durmstrang only admitted Pure-bloods.
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mollis - Dec 20, 2004 11:39 am (#2125 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 20, 2004 10:40 am
No need to run Hollywand - I think that is a great idea. Victor Krum, if we are actually going to see him again, is as good a choice as any. Certainly more plausible than some ideas I've heard. I'm wondering if JKR has commented on him in an interview...
EDIT: Shoot! Cross posted with Ainsley Black. Well, maybe he doesn't know or has hidden the fact that he's half-blood?
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 11:44 am (#2126 of 2923)
I'm not sure he is a Pure-blood I've just got the feeling i've read that Durmstrang admit Pure-bloods only (hence the Malfoy's liking the schools plus that fact it's headmaster is "ex"-DE).
Though saying all that i may have read it in a Fan fic somewhere and not in the HP books.
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 11:48 am (#2127 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hey, thanks for your replies, and for not ---ouch!
We don't know Krum's lineage,but go back and take a look athe Yule Ball passage in the Goblet of Fire. Karakoff treats Krum like a prince,and, read carefully, he is very upset at Krum's choice of a dance partner. Look carefully at the way Harry's perspective changes toward Hermoninny, and particularly how Krum is described as he asks Harry about their relationship.
"Half Blood Prince" could be a derisive term and not strictly literally referring to blood lineage.
Krum has been raised on the Dark Arts, but in his heart chooses a different pathway. He prefers Hogwarts to Durmstrang. Ron's jealousy is a distraction from the clues, methinks.
Krum seems to have the missing "Good Slytherin" qualities that some are looking for to unite the Four Houses. He is a seeker. He could definitely wrest the leadership position from the Malfoy boy.
Hold on to those dungbombs, folks, I know Krum is of graduating age,but don't assume we will be at Hogwarts all next year. ACCIO BOOK SIX!
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mollis - Dec 20, 2004 11:49 am (#2128 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 20, 2004 10:50 am
Okay, just checked Quick-Quotes. JKR says: "You will see Krum again, though not soon." So it is a possibility.
But yes, you are right Ainsley, Durmstrang only admits pure-bloods. So either there is no way, or Victor is secretly a half-blood.
Hey, its just as likely as any other idea, I guess.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 11:57 am (#2129 of 2923)
I love that Krum is a good guy even though he's a bit on the over-moody side.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 20, 2004 12:17 pm (#2130 of 2923)
Hollywand: What about Krum at Hogwarts next year -- not as a student but as the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher -- and maybe teaching flying too, if Madame Hooch retires.
Just a thought
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 12:19 pm (#2131 of 2923)
I reckon he'd go into pro-quiditch wouldn't he? Maybe he's signed up by a UK team!!!
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 12:46 pm (#2132 of 2923)
Gryffindor
What if Krum invites Hermoninny and Harry and Ron to the training grounds for Quidditch professionals---Spinners End?
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wolfgrl - Dec 20, 2004 12:48 pm (#2133 of 2923)
I think Victor is a possibility. Maybe he will come to Hogwarts for Auror training. We are not told where this takes place, I see Hogwarts as good if not better a place then elseware. He may not "live" at Hogwarts, but attend training there.
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Qwaz - Dec 20, 2004 1:27 pm (#2134 of 2923)
HPatPS: Referred to a philosopher's stone HPatCoS: Referred to a chamber of secrets HPatPoA: Referred to a prizoner of azkaban HPatGoF: Referred to a goblet of fire HPatOotP: Referred to the order of the phoenix
In all save PoA, Voldermort has tried to manipulate the title focus of the novel to his own ends
PS: Revival CoS: partially revival and also according to JKR modern Voldermort would be more powerful had the diary made it. PoA: while not manipulated, Sirius' escape culminated in forcing Pettigrew to flee to Voldermort. GoF: Got Harry to him for revival OotP: manipulated Kreacher (always at order HQ) to get harry to the ministry and to the prophesy
Whoever the HBP is, think it'll be trustworthy in itself but Voldermort will try to take advantage of it before the book is over.
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Helen Potterfan - Dec 20, 2004 3:46 pm (#2135 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Hey, if you're on this thread and don't know, the door on JKR's web site is open and there is an update for HBP. Check out the "Official Web site" thread for access information and clues!
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vball man - Dec 20, 2004 4:51 pm (#2136 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Edited by Denise P. Dec 20, 2004 4:56 pm
Spoiler for JKRowling.com: Do you think that the way JKR uses "prince" in her riddle means something? We've wondered about which meaning of "prince" she means by HBP. Is it "next in line to the throne" or "pampered one"(DD's office) or something else. But she uses it in the clue as "next in line for the thrown." What do you think?
EDIT: I fixed the white text for you Denise P.
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Saud - Dec 20, 2004 4:51 pm (#2137 of 2923)
Thanks alot Accio HBP.
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green shoes - Dec 20, 2004 7:52 pm (#2138 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
In case anyone doesn't know yet, JKR has updated her website today with a special puzzle, and some exciting info. She says she is DONE writing book six, and the publishers will release the book release date within 24 hours! EXCITED! Peace.
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Flutterby - Dec 20, 2004 8:47 pm (#2139 of 2923)
Viktor was already playing pro-quidditch, he was in the Quidditch World Cup playing for Bulgaria:
Vrasta Vultures
Robes: unknown
Home: Bulgaria European champions in 1932 when they were beaten by the Appleby Arrows. (QA) masters of the "long goal," shot from outside the scoring area (QA)
England fields a team which lost to Luxembourg in 1994 in the lead up to the World Cup. In the final, Bulgaria lost a very exciting match to Ireland, even though their Seeker caught the Snitch.
Bulgaria National Team (1994):
Robes: scarlet (GF8)
Mascot: Veela
Dimitrov - Chaser
Ivanova - Chaser
Krum, Viktor - Seeker
Levski - Chaser
Volkov - Beater
Vulchanov - Beater
Zograf - Keeper
Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Mandie MacLaren - Dec 20, 2004 9:58 pm (#2140 of 2923)
I just heard the exciting news! Book 6 is DONE! I read it on this news story: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I haven't had as much time as usual to hang around the forum, so forgive me if this is repetitive news... but the article mentions that "Rowling says that one of her characters will not survive her latest work."
Have there been any speculations on who this might be? If there have been, which thread?
Oh, I've been away too long...
Cheers!
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 10:56 pm (#2141 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Mandie, check out the "Who Will Die" thread under Theories. You will be feeling like Sibyll P Trelawney when those posters get through with their predictions. I think I myself predicted that Sibyll may be headed for the toaster in Book Six. One more prophecy then "Pasta La Vista". Poor Sibyll.
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Helen Potterfan - Dec 20, 2004 11:24 pm (#2142 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
vball man: You could be right, but I doubt it, because she used generic riddles for the other words (trying not to give anything away), so I think this is probably just a generic riddle to get us to guess that word. BUt who knows! IF you're right, it could be interesting.
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Jessalynn Quirky - Dec 21, 2004 6:17 am (#2143 of 2923)
This is it, what we've all been waiting for........*drumroll please*.........
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince will be available on JULY 16, 2005!!!! YAY!!!!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Jessalynn Quirky - Dec 21, 2004 6:34 am (#2144 of 2923)
Just had a weird thought--maybe the Half Blood Prince is a person who is half vampire. Half of a blood prince.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 21, 2004 6:48 am (#2145 of 2923)
My prediction was right: Jo's Christmas present to us was news she's finished HBP.
Bless you, Jo, for letting us open our present a few days early.
What did take me by surprise is the speed at which her publisher announced the expected release date. I hadn't been expecting the news until sometime in January. For me, the publication date announcement is an early birthday present.
Wooooooo Hooooo! Accioooooooooo Book Six!
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Saud - Dec 21, 2004 6:49 am (#2146 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 21, 2004 5:52 am
I had posted a similar idea way JQ about a month or 2 ago. Check Saud, "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #1898, 26 Oct 2004 10:58 pm
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Mandie MacLaren - Dec 21, 2004 6:54 am (#2147 of 2923)
YAAAAY!!! July 16!!! I couldn't help but think... I'll need to finish my application process for Grad school early so I'll have totoally unobstructed time available to me when I finally hurry home with the new book!
How exciting!
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 7:59 am (#2148 of 2923)
Saud and JQ,
Actually, that theory started as soon as she published the title without the proper hyphen. Half Blood Prince equals Half of a Blood Prince (vampire).
However, with the hyphen, it now no longer makes grammatical sense.
Half-Blood Prince equals a Prince that is Half-Blood.
I suppose it's still formally possible, of course!
KWeldon
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Liz Mann - Dec 21, 2004 10:21 am (#2149 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
When I told my mum the release date, she complained that it was June last year and the date wasn't even announced until January. How come this one is taking longer than the last when it's shorter? And by the way, Bloomsbury have now said that HBP is 'a bit shorter' than OotP! Only a bit! Jo, I knew you wouldn't let us down!
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Choices - Dec 21, 2004 10:49 am (#2150 of 2923)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Wow, I just heard on CNN that JKR has announced that book 6 will be released on July 16 - and one of the characters won't survive. I can't wait.....come on July.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It could be that amazon does not want a repeat that incident in which a bookstore put out copies of OotP two days early and was subsequently barred from saying HP merchandise in the future.
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Phoenix song - Dec 16, 2004 3:34 pm (#2102 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
The Leaky Cauldron has put out a report on those odd e-mails sent by Amazon. They're reporting that it seems to be some sort of form letter glitch that was sent out by mistake. Perhaps the wrong item number was input or something. Apparently the e-mail went on to further state something to the effect that you could try and purchase the books second handed, and we KNOW that's not possible. This would give more credence to the "it's a mistake" theory than anything else.
I'm taking the "update" on her welcome page on the website as a good sign. If she's writing that she's going to use the website to inform us of when book SEVEN is completed, then it MUST be that she's working on book seven now...and is finished with book 6.
Barbie
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Grindylow - Dec 16, 2004 7:20 pm (#2103 of 2923)
I agree with you Phoenix Song...I hope the Amazon letter was a "glitch". I can't wait until it is released. My daughter told me that we shouldn't read it the minute we buy it because then we will be waiting for book seven and will be depressed because it isn't out yet!!! I told her she could wait if she wanted to, but that I would probably be reading as we stood in line waiting to pay for it!!!!
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mooncalf - Dec 16, 2004 10:27 pm (#2104 of 2923)
I just got another message fgrom Amazon:
Greetings from Amazon.com.
We're writing to correct a recent e-mail notification that we sent about "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (Book 6)."
In our e-mail, we stated that this title would not be immediately available from our suppliers, and that you may want to search for it elsewhere. While it's true that "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" is not yet ready for eager readers, we do plan to notify you by e-mail when this book is available for pre-order on our web site.
We assure you that howlers have been sent to the muggles responsible for this action and we are investigating the possibility that You-Know-Who may have been involved.
We apologize for the incorrect notification that you received. Thank you for shopping at Amazon.com.
Sincerely,
Customer Service Amazon.com
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Nicole Bloom - Dec 16, 2004 11:00 pm (#2105 of 2923)
That is the greatest thing I have ever read from a book company
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The giant squid - Dec 17, 2004 2:28 am (#2106 of 2923)
At least they have a sense of humor about the whole thing. I get the impression that a few of the higher-ups at Amazon Customer Service were on that mailing list.
--Mike
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Aurora Gubbins - Dec 17, 2004 2:46 am (#2107 of 2923)
I, too have just read the book six/book seven thing. At first I thought it was a typo (6/7) until I saw it was the word and not the figure! OOOH! GOODY!!!
I bet Jo was sitting at home rubbing her hands in glee and laughing maniacally when she slipped that one in!
Thanks Jo Aurora xx
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Grindylow - Dec 17, 2004 3:23 pm (#2108 of 2923)
I got the letter from Amazon too and thought it was a HOOT! I loved their use of "muggles" and "you know who".
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Her-melanie - Dec 17, 2004 7:12 pm (#2109 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Hope this isn't too off-topic, but I had my first Potter-related dream the other night. It was my subconscious mind's own stab at what is coming in HBP! It started off with Voldemort talking to Wormtail about Luna Lovegood. He was saying, "She is stronger than she looks, Wormtail; she will do the job well." Basically, Luna Lovegood is actually working for Voldemort, and he transfers some powers to her and sends her into the Chamber of Secrets to call forth the other basilisks hiding in it. Then she lures Harry down there to fight them or something. In my dream, Voldemort considered Luna the perfect spy because he figured no one would suspect a Ravenclaw. I seem to remember it being much more detailed, but that's all I can remember now. I guess my subconscious isn't too creative. [btw, can anyone tell me what happened to my avatar and gold star?]
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Grindylow - Dec 17, 2004 8:11 pm (#2110 of 2923)
Her-Melanie...if you aren't a premium subscriber, you lose the gold star and the avatar...
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hellocello3200 - Dec 18, 2004 8:29 am (#2111 of 2923)
Her-melanie, your dream at least makes more sense than the one HP dream I had right after the PoA movie came out. It involved Snape throwing jewlry from a bargain bin at death eaters as the trio escaped on a giant bus shaped like a rhino along with a family of shrunken heads and then being attack by a group of girls wearing those Harry and Ron shirts they sell at Hot Topic. Seriously I'm not making that up, I really did dream that.
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Gerald Costales - Dec 18, 2004 10:27 am (#2112 of 2923)
"...if you aren't a premium subscriber, you lose the gold star and the avatar...
" Grindylow What's a premium subscriber? Really, it's all new to me. I thought the Lexicon Forum just updated things with the gold stars. I'd hate to lose my avatar. I just figured how to put it on the Forum.
As excited as the rest of you on a possible release day for the HBP. I hope Jo gives us a definite date as a X-mas present (Jo, hope you're listening)! Jo did give us those chapter titles on Halloween.
Back on topic. I hope Luna doesn't side with Voldermort. I think one of the current students could defect though. A Slytherin would be too obvious. If anyone, it would be Marietta, especially with what Hermione did with the Jinxed DA parchment and the resulting purple pimples when Marietta snitched to Umbridge. If the current students get a Wormtail (traitor), I'd vote for Marietta.
I hope the debate on the HBP doesn't end while we gaze blankly at our monitors for a release date. So, I'll get the ball rolling again.
My canidates for the HBP:
1. Dean Thomas.
Reasons: Dean's a Half-Blood. If Dean's real father (the one killed by Death Eaters) was a King or Prince then Dean would be a "Half-Blood Prince".
Dark horse canidates:
2. The lion-like character Jo mentioned on her website. The J. K. Rowling website revealed the following excerpt:
“(He) looked rather like a lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.”
Reasons: The HBP is possibly a new character. This description is probably a new character. Speculation, this possible new character is probably the "Half-Blood Prince".
This possible new character tied into my speculation that the HBP is also Godric Gryffindor. Several Gryffindor's are animagi, Prof. MaGonagall - cat; James Potter - deer (Prongs); Sirius Black - dog (Padfoot); and Peter Pettigrew - rat (Wormtail).
Other speculation, Gryffindor's mascot is a Lion because Godric Gryffindor was an animagus who turned into a Lion. The trait of being an animagi is present in four Gryffindors. So, could being an animagi be suggestive of Gryffindor House? Just like being a Parseltongue is suggestive of Slytherin House. Slytherin's mascot is a Serpent because Salazar Slytherin was a Parseltongue. Tom Riddle is a Slytherin and is also a Parseltongue. (Harry is an exception to this Parseltongues are Slytherins observation because the rebounded curse passed some of Voldermort's abilities to Harry.)
Futher speculation, McGonagall is the current Transfiguration teacher and Dumbledore was the former Transfiguration teacher. Could Dumbledore also be a Animagi like McGonagall? Probably.
Also, Godric was originally called the "Mudblood Prince" because of his love of Half-Bloods, Muggleborns, and Muggles. Over ther years the "Mudblood" insult has been soften into the more kinder "Half-Blood" term.
Doubt: Chapter 14: Felix Felicis. This name suggests a cat (felis -cat). Like Lupin's name suggested a Werewolf (lupus - wolf). Some people believe Felix Felicis is the new DADA teacher who is usually a new character.
3. Remus Lupin
Reasons: Lupin is also a Half-Blood. If Lupin was a Prince, what better way to keep Lupin off his throne then to sic a Werewolf on Lupin. (Ouch, no tenaus shot for a Werewolf bite!) Again, just like Dean we don't have enough background on Remus.
4. Rebeus Hagrid
Reason: Hagrid was my first thought when the title of book six was released. (And has Hagrid been truly eliminated as the HBP!) There is that on going debate that Hagrid is not a Half-Blood because of his Giant Blood. (A Half-Blood is like Tom Riddle and Harry - One Wizard/Witch parent and One Muggle parent.) Bunk, Hagrid is Half-Wizard and Half-Giant, by Merlin's beard Hagrid is a Half-Blood!
Doubt: Hagrid a Prince. Prince of Grounds and Keys! What Kingdom (or Principality) are we talking about people?
5. James (the Half-Blood Lover) Potter
Reason: James is a "Half-Blood Prince" because he supports Half-Bloods, Muggleborns, and Muggles. Just like we have the "Sultan of Swat", Count Basie, Duke Ellington, Don King (bad pun) etc. The "Half-Blood Prince" is a nickname not a literal title.
Merry Christmas Everybody! ;-) GC
PS And Happy Holidays!
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Grindylow - Dec 18, 2004 10:44 am (#2113 of 2923)
Gerald-A premium subscriber is someone who pays $12 per year to become a member of the Worldcrossing family. You don't have to pay the money, there are free memberships available too, but you won't be able to display your avatar or have the gold star. There are other perks to a paid subscription which you can read about in: "Our future with World Crossing" posts 1 and 2. Hope that helps!
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Veritaserum - Dec 18, 2004 4:35 pm (#2114 of 2923)
Go Jays!
That's interesting, about the title prince as a nickname. I'd thought of it as a royal title or a sarcastic nickname (weasley is our king before the big win), but maybe it is actually a positive nickname, like Gerald said about the sultan of swat, etc.
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Hawthorn Wycke - Dec 19, 2004 5:15 am (#2115 of 2923)
Yes, Madame Librarian Firenze said in Classroom 11 that “in the past decade the indication has been that wizard kind is living through nothing more than a brief calm between two wars” – WHICH WARS, I speculate WWI and WWII marking the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month.
I hope you see the relationship now. I can’t believe what’s gone on in my absence and I’ll have to learn to speak plainly in this forum.
Wishing wands, Hawthorn Wycke
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Her-melanie - Dec 19, 2004 10:06 am (#2116 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I am going to stick with my controversial idea that the HBP is Snape. The only other person besides Snape I'm going to mention is the Lion-esque man described in the ROR. Since we really don't know anything at all about him as a character, he is a definite possibility. If it is someone we have already met, my bet is Snape.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 19, 2004 1:37 pm (#2117 of 2923)
My friend and I spent a whole evening in the pub debating this when the title was released and i'm still none the wiser now!
Something JK said about Lupin being half-blood got me though because I don't think she meant it as being because of the wolf and more that one of his parents was/is a muggle (I'm not saying he is the HBP) it's just niggled at me.
Another thing that niggles me is the amount of time Justin Finch-Fletchly gets small roles in the books (I know 'what's his name' in Ravenclaw says he's muggle born) but it's the whole fell of him I guess, double-barreled name, down for Eton to go with his nemerous walk on parts in the books. Who's to say one of his parents wasn't magical and for one reason or another isn't in the picture now and he dosen't know about their magical history? (clutches at a few straws)
I really don't think it's going to be obvious if it is a character we already know to some degree.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 19, 2004 9:42 pm (#2118 of 2923)
I believe it will be someone we do not know. The Titles introduce a new person, thing, or organization. I don't think JKR will break from that pattern. My guess he is a person mentioned in passing but not a character we already know. Of course I've been wrong before... LPO
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Kerrie-Louise - Dec 20, 2004 1:11 am (#2119 of 2923)
My view is that it will be someone we have already met. I would like to say that my money is on Hagrid as I think he has a more important role yet to play in the stories, however I imagine that JKR will have kept just enough information from us to make it a surprise no matter who we guess!
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Gerald Costales - Dec 20, 2004 7:42 am (#2120 of 2923)
Hagrid was my first thought when the title was released. But, the Prince part of the title doesn't seem to apply to Hagrid. Unless the Prince is a nickname (Weasley is our King). Hagrid is certainly the Prince of Grounds and Keys at Hogwarts. Of course we don't know too much about Hagrid's dad. There is that slight chance that royality could come from the Wizard side of Hagrid and not the Giant side. Just My 2 Knuts. ;-) GC
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Denise P. - Dec 20, 2004 10:48 am (#2121 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
I deleted several posts from this thread today due to a post that was political in nature. Any post that followed that made reference to that was also deleted.
Political discussions are not appropriate for this Forum. Please do not post them, they will be deleted and if they are reposted, the person will face being placed on moderated status. This is not a politcal forum, it is a Harry Potter Forum and this thread is specifically to discuss Book 6.
If you had a post in this lot deleted and have a question about why it was, feel free to contact me via email denise at hp-lexicon.org
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Joanne R. Reid - Dec 20, 2004 10:54 am (#2122 of 2923)
I agree with the speculation that the HBP is Dean Thomas.
Like everyone else, I've been scratching my head thinking of half-bloods. This was further complicated by the definition of a half-blood. That is, Harry is the son of a wizard and a witch. By my definition that would have made him a full-blooded wizard. However, according to JKR, et al, if a parent is a child of non-magically folk, then their child is a half-blood. So, my field of possible HBPs expanded.
We've already met and explored several families, including Seamus', Hagrid's, Voldemort's, Harry's, etc. Obviously, characters such as the Weasleys, Malfoys,etc, are out because they're pure-bloods by any standard.
That leaves us with Ginny's most recent boy-friend. Only recently we discovered that the man he believes to be his father isn't. Instead, his father is an unknown wizard. Since Dean is black, is it possible that his father is a king/prince of an African tribe? If so, they could be powerful allies in the war against Voldemort and his Death Eaters.
Well, that's my contribution. I look forward to everyone's thoughts.
Bye 4 now,
Joanne
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 11:31 am (#2123 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I don't want to dash hopes, but in reply to the last few posts suggesting Hagrid, Rowling has definitely ruled him out as a candidate in an interview a few months ago.
I vote for Godric Gryffindor, as a historical figure or, hold those dungbombs, please! Viktor Krum, as a good dark art rival for Harry. A person who has been reared on the dark arts and stratification, but chooses a different pathway. Yikes, I better run now...... ;-)
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 11:35 am (#2124 of 2923)
Isn't Viktor a Pure-blood? I thought Durmstrang only admitted Pure-bloods.
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mollis - Dec 20, 2004 11:39 am (#2125 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 20, 2004 10:40 am
No need to run Hollywand - I think that is a great idea. Victor Krum, if we are actually going to see him again, is as good a choice as any. Certainly more plausible than some ideas I've heard. I'm wondering if JKR has commented on him in an interview...
EDIT: Shoot! Cross posted with Ainsley Black. Well, maybe he doesn't know or has hidden the fact that he's half-blood?
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 11:44 am (#2126 of 2923)
I'm not sure he is a Pure-blood I've just got the feeling i've read that Durmstrang admit Pure-bloods only (hence the Malfoy's liking the schools plus that fact it's headmaster is "ex"-DE).
Though saying all that i may have read it in a Fan fic somewhere and not in the HP books.
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 11:48 am (#2127 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hey, thanks for your replies, and for not ---ouch!
We don't know Krum's lineage,but go back and take a look athe Yule Ball passage in the Goblet of Fire. Karakoff treats Krum like a prince,and, read carefully, he is very upset at Krum's choice of a dance partner. Look carefully at the way Harry's perspective changes toward Hermoninny, and particularly how Krum is described as he asks Harry about their relationship.
"Half Blood Prince" could be a derisive term and not strictly literally referring to blood lineage.
Krum has been raised on the Dark Arts, but in his heart chooses a different pathway. He prefers Hogwarts to Durmstrang. Ron's jealousy is a distraction from the clues, methinks.
Krum seems to have the missing "Good Slytherin" qualities that some are looking for to unite the Four Houses. He is a seeker. He could definitely wrest the leadership position from the Malfoy boy.
Hold on to those dungbombs, folks, I know Krum is of graduating age,but don't assume we will be at Hogwarts all next year. ACCIO BOOK SIX!
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mollis - Dec 20, 2004 11:49 am (#2128 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 20, 2004 10:50 am
Okay, just checked Quick-Quotes. JKR says: "You will see Krum again, though not soon." So it is a possibility.
But yes, you are right Ainsley, Durmstrang only admits pure-bloods. So either there is no way, or Victor is secretly a half-blood.
Hey, its just as likely as any other idea, I guess.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 11:57 am (#2129 of 2923)
I love that Krum is a good guy even though he's a bit on the over-moody side.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 20, 2004 12:17 pm (#2130 of 2923)
Hollywand: What about Krum at Hogwarts next year -- not as a student but as the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher -- and maybe teaching flying too, if Madame Hooch retires.
Just a thought
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Ainsley Black - Dec 20, 2004 12:19 pm (#2131 of 2923)
I reckon he'd go into pro-quiditch wouldn't he? Maybe he's signed up by a UK team!!!
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 12:46 pm (#2132 of 2923)
Gryffindor
What if Krum invites Hermoninny and Harry and Ron to the training grounds for Quidditch professionals---Spinners End?
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wolfgrl - Dec 20, 2004 12:48 pm (#2133 of 2923)
I think Victor is a possibility. Maybe he will come to Hogwarts for Auror training. We are not told where this takes place, I see Hogwarts as good if not better a place then elseware. He may not "live" at Hogwarts, but attend training there.
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Qwaz - Dec 20, 2004 1:27 pm (#2134 of 2923)
HPatPS: Referred to a philosopher's stone HPatCoS: Referred to a chamber of secrets HPatPoA: Referred to a prizoner of azkaban HPatGoF: Referred to a goblet of fire HPatOotP: Referred to the order of the phoenix
In all save PoA, Voldermort has tried to manipulate the title focus of the novel to his own ends
PS: Revival CoS: partially revival and also according to JKR modern Voldermort would be more powerful had the diary made it. PoA: while not manipulated, Sirius' escape culminated in forcing Pettigrew to flee to Voldermort. GoF: Got Harry to him for revival OotP: manipulated Kreacher (always at order HQ) to get harry to the ministry and to the prophesy
Whoever the HBP is, think it'll be trustworthy in itself but Voldermort will try to take advantage of it before the book is over.
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Helen Potterfan - Dec 20, 2004 3:46 pm (#2135 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Hey, if you're on this thread and don't know, the door on JKR's web site is open and there is an update for HBP. Check out the "Official Web site" thread for access information and clues!
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vball man - Dec 20, 2004 4:51 pm (#2136 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Edited by Denise P. Dec 20, 2004 4:56 pm
Spoiler for JKRowling.com: Do you think that the way JKR uses "prince" in her riddle means something? We've wondered about which meaning of "prince" she means by HBP. Is it "next in line to the throne" or "pampered one"(DD's office) or something else. But she uses it in the clue as "next in line for the thrown." What do you think?
EDIT: I fixed the white text for you
Denise P. - - - - - - - - - -
Saud - Dec 20, 2004 4:51 pm (#2137 of 2923)
Thanks alot Accio HBP.
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green shoes - Dec 20, 2004 7:52 pm (#2138 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
In case anyone doesn't know yet, JKR has updated her website today with a special puzzle, and some exciting info. She says she is DONE writing book six, and the publishers will release the book release date within 24 hours! EXCITED! Peace.
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Flutterby - Dec 20, 2004 8:47 pm (#2139 of 2923)
Viktor was already playing pro-quidditch, he was in the Quidditch World Cup playing for Bulgaria:
Vrasta Vultures
Robes: unknown
Home: Bulgaria European champions in 1932 when they were beaten by the Appleby Arrows. (QA) masters of the "long goal," shot from outside the scoring area (QA)
England fields a team which lost to Luxembourg in 1994 in the lead up to the World Cup. In the final, Bulgaria lost a very exciting match to Ireland, even though their Seeker caught the Snitch.
Bulgaria National Team (1994):
Robes: scarlet (GF8)
Mascot: Veela
Dimitrov - Chaser
Ivanova - Chaser
Krum, Viktor - Seeker
Levski - Chaser
Volkov - Beater
Vulchanov - Beater
Zograf - Keeper
Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Mandie MacLaren - Dec 20, 2004 9:58 pm (#2140 of 2923)
I just heard the exciting news! Book 6 is DONE! I read it on this news story: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I haven't had as much time as usual to hang around the forum, so forgive me if this is repetitive news... but the article mentions that "Rowling says that one of her characters will not survive her latest work."
Have there been any speculations on who this might be? If there have been, which thread?
Oh, I've been away too long...
Cheers!
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Hollywand - Dec 20, 2004 10:56 pm (#2141 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Mandie, check out the "Who Will Die" thread under Theories. You will be feeling like Sibyll P Trelawney when those posters get through with their predictions. I think I myself predicted that Sibyll may be headed for the toaster in Book Six. One more prophecy then "Pasta La Vista". Poor Sibyll.
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Helen Potterfan - Dec 20, 2004 11:24 pm (#2142 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
vball man: You could be right, but I doubt it, because she used generic riddles for the other words (trying not to give anything away), so I think this is probably just a generic riddle to get us to guess that word. BUt who knows! IF you're right, it could be interesting.
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Jessalynn Quirky - Dec 21, 2004 6:17 am (#2143 of 2923)
This is it, what we've all been waiting for........*drumroll please*.........
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince will be available on JULY 16, 2005!!!! YAY!!!!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Jessalynn Quirky - Dec 21, 2004 6:34 am (#2144 of 2923)
Just had a weird thought--maybe the Half Blood Prince is a person who is half vampire. Half of a blood prince.
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scoop2172000 - Dec 21, 2004 6:48 am (#2145 of 2923)
My prediction was right: Jo's Christmas present to us was news she's finished HBP.
Bless you, Jo, for letting us open our present a few days early.
What did take me by surprise is the speed at which her publisher announced the expected release date. I hadn't been expecting the news until sometime in January. For me, the publication date announcement is an early birthday present.
Wooooooo Hooooo! Accioooooooooo Book Six!
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Saud - Dec 21, 2004 6:49 am (#2146 of 2923)
Edited by Dec 21, 2004 5:52 am
I had posted a similar idea way JQ about a month or 2 ago. Check Saud, "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #1898, 26 Oct 2004 10:58 pm
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Mandie MacLaren - Dec 21, 2004 6:54 am (#2147 of 2923)
YAAAAY!!! July 16!!! I couldn't help but think... I'll need to finish my application process for Grad school early so I'll have totoally unobstructed time available to me when I finally hurry home with the new book!
How exciting!
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KWeldon - Dec 21, 2004 7:59 am (#2148 of 2923)
Saud and JQ,
Actually, that theory started as soon as she published the title without the proper hyphen. Half Blood Prince equals Half of a Blood Prince (vampire).
However, with the hyphen, it now no longer makes grammatical sense.
Half-Blood Prince equals a Prince that is Half-Blood.
I suppose it's still formally possible, of course!
KWeldon
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Liz Mann - Dec 21, 2004 10:21 am (#2149 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
When I told my mum the release date, she complained that it was June last year and the date wasn't even announced until January. How come this one is taking longer than the last when it's shorter? And by the way, Bloomsbury have now said that HBP is 'a bit shorter' than OotP! Only a bit! Jo, I knew you wouldn't let us down!
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Choices - Dec 21, 2004 10:49 am (#2150 of 2923)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Wow, I just heard on CNN that JKR has announced that book 6 will be released on July 16 - and one of the characters won't survive. I can't wait.....come on July.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2151 to 2200)
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Steve Newton - Dec 21, 2004 10:54 am (#2151 of 2923)
Librarian
You know, I've wondered about one of the characters not surviving. All of them are JKR's characters. From Stan Shunpipe to Rookwood, to Harry Potter. If its really a war now I suspect that many characters are not going to be with us.
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Choices - Dec 21, 2004 11:11 am (#2152 of 2923)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Right you are Steve - unfortunately there are bound to be casulties in a war. I'm not sure, but I think she means one of her main characters will be lost.
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Steve Newton - Dec 21, 2004 11:16 am (#2153 of 2923)
Librarian
Probably. I can't believe that she would kill off one of the trio, at least not in book 6. Everybody else should be on their toes. Wasn't it Lavender who was warned by Trelawney about the thing that she dreaded happening on October 16? If she starts worrying about the war it could be trouble.
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vball man - Dec 21, 2004 12:21 pm (#2154 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
vball man: You could be right, but I doubt it,
I hope so, Recurring Boy who Lived theory (which I wrote) predicts that Dumbledore was the Half-Blood (and raised as a pampered little) Prince.
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Liz Mann - Dec 21, 2004 3:18 pm (#2155 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Wow, I just heard on CNN that JKR has announced that book 6 will be released on July 16 - and one of the characters won't survive.
I haven't heard anything about her saying one of the characters won't survive. CNN said that J.K. said that? At the same time she said about the release date? Well, first of all it wasn't her that said about the release date, it was Bloomsbury. And secondly, she hasn't done any interviews lately so where else would she say it but her website? And she says nothing of the sort on there. I think the press are making up details again.
(Of course we know characters are going to die in the last two books, but CNN are pinpointing one particular character, and she hasn't said anything about how many.)
Dumbledore as the half-blood prince? That's an interesting idea.
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Aurora Gubbins - Dec 21, 2004 3:43 pm (#2156 of 2923)
Not sure if this is for this thread or for the website thread: If as some of us think, door 25 will reveal cover art, that could be a huge clue! Hopefully
Aurora xx
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Choices - Dec 21, 2004 8:04 pm (#2157 of 2923)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I am pretty sure that's what CNN said - "One of her characters won't survive" Don't know if they were quoting JKR or not. I was listening to the report from another room, so I could have mis-heard. I, personally, think this is the book where we are going to lose Dumbledore - probably right near the end. When I heard the report, that's immediately who I thought of. If it's him, I am going to be so sad - I just love Dumbledore.
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Mandie MacLaren - Dec 21, 2004 10:35 pm (#2158 of 2923)
Actually, Choices, I read something to that effect in the article I posted a ways back... er... the wee hours of 12/20... There have been SO many posts within the past 24-some-odd hours! But anyway, in another article I read today, it says:
"For months, Rowling has been revealing details of her new book, naming the titles of three chapters — Chapter 2: Spinners End; Chapter 6: Draco’s Detour; Chapter 14: Felix Felicis — and even confiding that one of her characters will not survive, although she refused to say who. Potter himself is safe, at least for now. Rowling has said her teenage hero will survive until the seventh and final book in the series, but has refused to say whether he will reach adulthood."
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6741038/)
It's Associated Press, and the writer almost implies that she said that on her website.
Isn't it funny to picture these journalists sniffing around JK's site... do you reckon they had to solve the clues under the Christmas tree, too?
I mean, I'm sure it didn't happen this way, but I just get this goofy picture of an editor screaming about a deadline, and the poor writer ripping his hair out... "four in a pair and eight in a quarter?! I don't know, I don't KNOW!!!"
Tee hee! Guess I'm just tired! Past my bedtime here in snowy Buffalo!
And thanks, Hollywand, I will check out that thread! I have SOOO much reading to catch up on!
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Wendelin the Weird - Dec 21, 2004 11:01 pm (#2159 of 2923)
burned at the stake 47 times and counting...
Hmmm... I know she has said the release date is at midnight on July 16th, so does that mean the very first minute of the 16th, or the very last minute of the 16th? That always confuses me... *slaps forehead*
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Helen Potterfan - Dec 21, 2004 11:27 pm (#2160 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
In the "About the books" section of the web site, she answers the question "Are you going to kill any more characters?" with "Yes. Sorry".
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OkieAngel - Dec 22, 2004 1:29 am (#2161 of 2923)
Well, it seems only reasonable that more characters are going to have to die. Assumedly, HBP is going to pick up where OoTP left off, and that's with the WW realising that Voldy is back and that another VW is imminent. It's a horrible fact of life that people die in war, and as these stories are (mostly) from Harry's point of view, then we (the readers) will see the deaths that affect him (and the storyline)most.
Now, that my logical side has spoken, let my clingy foolish side speak and say that I have barely (and I do mean barely)come to terms with losing Snuffles, I don't think I could handle losing DD or Lupin. More to the point, I don't think Harry could either, imho. Now, I'm gonna end this before I get booted to another thread...
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Ginerva Potter - Dec 22, 2004 6:56 am (#2162 of 2923)
Hi Wendelin - It's the first minute of the 16th.
Ginny
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Liz Mann - Dec 22, 2004 8:13 am (#2163 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
In the "About the books" section of the web site, she answers the question "Are you going to kill any more characters?" with "Yes. Sorry".
Yes, but that refers to both HBP and book 7, and she has said absolutely nothing on her site about how many characters are going to die, in either book. The British newspaper The Daily Mail is now saying the same thing as CNN, but I think they're getting their info from each other rather than J.K. They are making up details as a marketing ploy, which is really not necessary since this book is already a number one best seller just from pre-orders.
J.K. has updated her website again to comment on a few things, including a rumour that the book is 38 chapters long, about which subject she says, "Listen carefully, I shall say this only once: the only sources you should trust concerning information on the Half-Blood Prince are official spokespeople for my publishers and my official website... Let's face it: it wouldn't be a new Harry Potter book if hoaxers didn't pop up regularly on the net claiming to know new characters, or plot-lines, or to have found new chapters lying around a printer's back yard... So let's agree here and now that each of these 'claims' comes with a barrel of salt and rise together above the madness."
I think we should apply that to everything we hear from somewhere that's not either of those two sources. So until I hear the 'one character dies' thing from J.K. or her publishers, I won't believe it.
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Odds Bodikins - Dec 22, 2004 8:26 am (#2164 of 2923)
I told my wife that I have made my plans for our wedding anniversary next year. I will be reading the HBP! What a great anniversary present for me( not so much for my wife)!
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Marie E. - Dec 22, 2004 9:52 am (#2165 of 2923)
Lizz, I think that is excellent advice. It's hard telling where those other news sources are getting their information unless they quote one of her publishers or her website.
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Eliza - Dec 22, 2004 11:07 am (#2166 of 2923)
I have been rereading Prisoner of Azkaban for the third time and I think that we have met a character that we will be hearing more about. Possible half-blood prince, possible not. I believe he is an untrained wizard, which means he was probably raised but muggles who refused to let him go to Hogwarts and probably never even told him. This character is Colonel Fubster. And I believe he is an untrained wizard due to Chapter 2, pgs 25-26 At that moment, the wineglass Aunt Marge was holding ex- ploded in her hand. Shards of glass flew in every direction and Aunt Marge spuddered and blinked, her great ruddy face dripping. "Marge!" squealed Aunt Petunia. "Marge, are you all right?" "Not to worry," grunted Aunt Marge, mopping her face with her napkin. "Must have squeezed it too hard. Did the same thing at Colonel Fubster's the other day. No need to fuss, Petunia, I have a very firm grip..." I don't know about you guys but I have never heard of someone "squeezing" a wineglass too hard and making it "explode". I think this may have been a hint about poor old Colonel Fubster. I think that a fully trained wizard may have been able to control himself even around "dear sweet" Aunt Marge. However, I can't think of a person more likely to cause involuntary magic in an untrained wizard.
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Steve Newton - Dec 22, 2004 11:44 am (#2167 of 2923)
Librarian
Eliza, I have noted that scene but I came to the conclusion that Aunt Marge was the one who will come lately to magic. I wouldn't want to have to defend that position though.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 22, 2004 11:45 am (#2168 of 2923)
Great post Liz, well said!
Eliza, great idea! It will be interesting to see if Colonel Fubster turns up again. I am a firm believer in we have only heard of the HBP in passing. He is not a major character in the first five books. LPO
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Liz Mann - Dec 22, 2004 1:26 pm (#2169 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Thanks.
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Scales - Dec 22, 2004 11:15 pm (#2170 of 2923)
aka Miss Granger
I was just reading some comments and had a funny idea on who might die in HBP. Viktor Krum...he will be gone and Hermione will go running to Ron for comfort. (Perhaps this should go in 'ship 'ship...LOL.)
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 23, 2004 11:32 am (#2171 of 2923)
Maybe the half blood prince is not a royal but a defender of the half bloods.Prince can also mean an outstanding man in any rank or class.
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Verschwinden Sie - Dec 23, 2004 1:41 pm (#2172 of 2923)
As it has been a great while since I have posted anything significant on this forum, or indeed have read anything on it, I don't know if this has been suggested, so ignore me if it has been.
I just thought I'd take this opportunity to point out that to my recollection, J.K. Rowling has never established the ancestry for Albus Dumbledore or his brother Aberforth.
I would also like to note that if she has established ANYONE as king of the wizarding world, it's Albus Dumbledore, and that the brother of a king may still be called a prince.
Just a thought.
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hellocello3200 - Dec 23, 2004 3:10 pm (#2173 of 2923)
Scales, I hope not! I don't know if I can stand another I-So-Sad-you-know-who-killed-my boyfriend-so-I'm-going-to-cry-on-the-shoulder-of-the-nearest-guy girl. I also hope not because I kinda like Victor.
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Scales - Dec 23, 2004 3:33 pm (#2174 of 2923)
aka Miss Granger
hellocello600 ... I don't really think Hermione is the type of girl that would go crying to some guy over another. Besides, I don't think Viktor is that important of a character to kill off (although poor, not so thought of important Cedric got the axe (still in tears like Chao). I am just too scared it will be Lupin or Hagrid, and I don't want to even think of those possible loses so I must supply my brain with the less painful thoughts.
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Liz Mann - Dec 23, 2004 4:06 pm (#2175 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Half-Blood 'Price' could be a scheptical term. It might be a mocking name the Death Eaters have for one of the characters. The person may not be royalty at all. Snape might call Harry a prince because of the way people go out of their way to look after him. I know Harry is not the half-blood prince, but you get my meaning?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 23, 2004 4:28 pm (#2176 of 2923)
Half-Blood Prince could be someone from a different country. I don't think Krum is the HBP. LPO
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 23, 2004 7:51 pm (#2177 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I can't remember who but someone referred to Dumbledore as the champion of the Half-Bloods didn't they. I could be wrong but I seem to remember one of the bad guys referring to him in that manner. Another point for DD being the HBP.
Mikie
That is if I'm right.
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Liz Mann - Dec 24, 2004 4:44 am (#2178 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Did they say that? I haven't read the last few chapters of OotP since the book first came out (because of a certain death ). I am intending to change that in the new year, though.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 24, 2004 8:05 am (#2179 of 2923)
I still have trouble reading that section too Liz, my heart still pounds and tears do well!
I do remember someone championing DD for Half-bloods but can't think where I read it at the moment, too busy trying to sneak my little girl's presents into her Santa sack ready to take to my Mum's!
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vball man - Dec 24, 2004 8:59 am (#2180 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
GOF (graveyard after Vol's rebirth): "And I answer myself, perhaps they believed a still greater power could exist, one that could vanquish even Lord Voldemort. . . perhaps they now pay allegiance to another . . . perhaps that champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles, Albus Dumbledore?"
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KTO - Dec 24, 2004 10:09 am (#2181 of 2923)
This forum has made me insane. Before I joined I like Harry Potter but am now addicted, had no idea that there were so many layers. Am doing a reread but with a totally different frame of mind, I am suspicious of everything. Late last night I was doing anagrams looking for half blood prince - got famous royal malfoy, from using Lucius Malfoy and Draco Malfoy, but had lots of leftover letters that did NOTHING!! Also in my re-reading, chapter seven, book one, american version. When everyone is being introduced noticed that Neville stated "but the family thought I was ALL-MUGGLE for ages" if he is a full blooded wizard, wouldn't the quote have been, "the family thought I was a SQUIB".
Like I said, I have become insane. am off to continue reading and making myself crazy. Happy Holidays to all, KT
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Veritaserum - Dec 24, 2004 10:19 am (#2182 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Interesting point about Neville, KT. But I have to say I rather like the idea of DD being the half-blood prince. Before I was never really thrilled about the idea of a prince being introduced so late into things (maybe because I am american), but I could definitely see in being DD, either really or figuratively.
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Leprechaun Jack! - Dec 24, 2004 1:12 pm (#2183 of 2923)
The cow says...moo, the sheep says...baa, and the Bear says WOOF.
I had mentioned in the JKR site thread and thought it should be posted here.
What if the HBP is not a new or current character but someone from the past. There is usually more then one scene in every story where the trio is in History of magic, but we never seem to learn much about the subject. The exception to that was when Hermione asked Prof Binns about the COS.
Perhaps, the same will happen again instead this time it will be a lesson about the HBP that shows Harry the way to Voldy's downfall.
Just a thought.
Jack
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Eliza - Dec 24, 2004 2:32 pm (#2184 of 2923)
KTO, I mentioned that back in post #1956, but it has been argued that Neville was stated as a pure-blood in CoS when he was buy talismans and also that Dumbledore said that Neville was a pure blood in OoP when he was explaining the prediction to Harry and stated that Voldemort chose the half-blood (Harry) like himself (Voldemort), instead of the pure-blood (Neville). However, as we have many times been made aware, Dumbledore DOES NOT know EVERYTHING. Running and ducking to avoid dung bombs!!!!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 24, 2004 4:33 pm (#2185 of 2923)
Jack, That would allow for the HBP to be Godric Gryffindor. I don't think we have met the HBP yet. LPO
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Ydnam96 - Dec 24, 2004 8:33 pm (#2186 of 2923)
Leprechuan Jack,
I am totally in agreement with you. I think it's a "new" character in that we haven't really seen/heard from him personally yet, but it's someone who existed in the past.
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dizzy lizzy - Dec 26, 2004 2:06 am (#2187 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
I had a rather mindshattering thought the other day (Midnight on Christmas Eve in the middle of a brilliant thunderstorm I might add) and I wanted to ask you all about it. I hope I'm on the right thread...
You know how Jo has said books 6 & 7 are really closely linked, like two halves, well the thought I had is if book 6 is finished and off to the publishers, book 7 must either have a very very detailed plot summary or on its first/second intial draft.
The reason is it seems impossible to me to write book 6 without writing book 7 (or a very detailed plot outline) since the two are rather closely linked.
I don't think it will mean we will get book 7 quicker though.
I tried to get the gist of my brainwave across so I hope you can understand it.
Have a wonderful new year everyone.
Lizzy
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the7eagle - Dec 26, 2004 8:59 am (#2188 of 2923)
dizzy lizzy - You know how Jo has said books 6 & 7 are really closely linked, like two halves, well the thought I had is if book 6 is finished and off to the publishers, book 7 must either have a very very detailed plot summary or on its first/second intial draft.
dizzy lizzy, even i've been toying with a similar thought for some time but on the contary i thought maybe the release will be much sooner as compared to the other books
well lets hope all the same
theEagle
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Hermy-own - Dec 26, 2004 9:19 am (#2189 of 2923)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Lizzy, I wasn't aware that books 6 and 7 will be closely linked. If that's the case, then yes, you'd have to assume that we won't have too long to wait before book 7. Encouraging, isn't it?
But, as usual, we must consider the part played by the publishers and the other business gurus involved here. They'd want to make sure that sales of book 6, as well as the associated merchandise, reach saturation. I'm sure HBP will follow OotP and GoF in their sales-record-breaking ways, but there's a lot that goes on outside of how quickly Rowling writes that influences when the books are to be released. It's all about maximising profits, these days. Perhaps someone with a better insight into economics can better explain this? Perhaps it belongs on another thread?
I'm new to this thread and am fascinated by some the ideas that have been put forward. To be honest, I don't know who will be - or is - the HBP, but I've always had a feeling it might be someone we already know. Just a feeling.
Back to what Lizzy said ... If books 6 and 7 are closely related, I wonder whether this half-blood prince, whoever he is, will play a similarly key role in the final book. (I'm assuming he'll have a pretty big part to play in book 6.)
Hermy.
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Gerald Costales - Dec 26, 2004 10:33 am (#2190 of 2923)
Re: post#2174
"I just thought I'd take this opportunity to point out that to my recollection, J.K. Rowling has never established the ancestry for Albus Dumbledore or his brother Aberforth.
I would also like to note that if she has established ANYONE as king of the wizarding world, it's Albus Dumbledore, and that the brother of a king may still be called a prince.
Just a thought." Andrew Buchanan
This is really such an interesting thought. But, if Albus is a possible King then if Albus dies or is killed then wouldn't Aberforth be the new King? Wouldn't put it past a Death Eater acting on this. Aberforth would be a weak King compared to Albus.
To add further speculation about the Dumbledores, I've posted that Albus and Aberforth might be Twins. So, if they were Twins then a matter of minutes seperates Aberforth (the second born) from any throne that exists or existed.
Don't think of Aberforth as the killer type but jealously (Fudge), resentment (Wormtail & Snape) and lust for power (Voldermort, Umbridge, & Percy) does do strange things and has changed people. And Aberforth is a bit mentally unbalanced given that goat thing (don't even want to get in to that by the way).
Just some other thoughts. ;-) GC
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dizzy lizzy - Dec 26, 2004 1:57 pm (#2191 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
I was also thinking later, that just because book seven might be written quicker than we think, like now or very soon, we won't get it any sooner either!
Lizzy
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The giant squid - Dec 26, 2004 3:53 pm (#2192 of 2923)
re: the coming of Book 7
While she may have a detailed outline and/or a scratch draft finished, bear in mind that she also has a new baby on the way. It's very likely that she'll take some time off completely to make sure the little one gets some proper parenting. I'm guessing it'll still be a couple years before we see the final (sob!) book.
--Mike
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 26, 2004 4:09 pm (#2193 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Unfortunately I have to agree with you Mike. She probably has the outline done. She has to know where it is going after 6 books. But I doubt if we see book 7 before late 2006 or early 2007. I think it deserves a little break right now and at least 3 to 4 months after the new one arrives.
Mikie
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Veritaserum - Dec 26, 2004 6:50 pm (#2194 of 2923)
Go Jays!
To GC: How do you know Aberforth would be a bad king if Albus gets knocked off? We know next to nothing about him (and the goat thing may or may not be literal). I think there's a lot more to Abby than meets the eye personally. That's not to say I think he's the HBP, cuz I haven't made up my mind on who I want to be him.
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 26, 2004 7:05 pm (#2195 of 2923)
Well we do know that the final chapter in book 7 is already written so that will cut down on a little time.
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Denise S. - Dec 26, 2004 7:11 pm (#2196 of 2923)
We are not a cult, we're just slightly obsessed and mentally unstable. There's a difference. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It'd be kind of funny if Aberforth ended up being the HBP, but when the series is almost finished, it'd be kind of strange to have such a little-known character suddenly become not just a prince, but important enough to be in the title to boot. My two knuts.
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Steve Newton - Dec 26, 2004 7:14 pm (#2197 of 2923)
Librarian
Why do I get the feeling that Aberforth is weaker, magically, that Albus. I get the impression of a loner and no feeling of power, great or weak.
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the7eagle - Dec 26, 2004 8:37 pm (#2198 of 2923)
Well it is true that jo has a baby on the way
but given the fact that book 6 is smaller than the previous one and the fact that it is closely knit to the 7th
wouldnt it be less responsibility for jo if the book was already in essence done
(except maybe the editing)
then she's got all the time in the world to dedicate to her new baby and worry not about deadlines and such things.
Bear in mind she already had pre-decided about all the main events and plot lines even as she was writing book 1
& she knew where she wanted book 7 to be headed.
So given those facts, book 7 was already ready on day 1. Just that she required to place it in a proper story format
just my thought, with nothing else to do at present
theEagle
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Verschwinden Sie - Dec 27, 2004 12:31 am (#2199 of 2923)
In this case, I don't honestly think that being "king of the wizarding world" is a matter of hereditary as much as it is something that one comes into through merit, so I doubt very much that Aberforth Dumbledore would become "king of the wizarding world upon Albus Dumbledore's death any more than he would become Headmaster of Hogwarts.
And with that let me stop and say that the whole "king of the wizarding world" is just a bit of literary speculation and analysis on my part... to my knowledge J.K. Rowling has never mentioned anyone at all as being a "king" in the wizarding world.
But, going back to something I said a very long time ago, it seems to me that in the wizarding world we have the iconic #1 wizard (Albus Dumbledore) who is very carefully manipulating a conflict between his two "prodigal sons" (those being Tom Riddle and Harry Potter).
I imagine if anyone ends up "inheriting" the status Albus Dumbledore has achieved in the wizarding world, it will be the winner of that particular fight. Let's just hope J.K. Rowling isn't overly fond of Shakespeare when it comes to these things...
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Ginerva Potter - Dec 27, 2004 8:24 am (#2200 of 2923)
This is really such an interesting thought. But, if Albus is a possible King then if Albus dies or is killed then wouldn't Aberforth be the new King? - Gerald Costales
Isn't this assuming that Albus doesn't have any sons? Wouldn't the son of a king be the next in line? I think that Jo has said somewhere that spouses of professors play an important role. That said, what if Albus' wife is a muggle. Then any sons they might have would be princes (also assuming Albus as a king). Just a thought....
Ginny
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Librarian
You know, I've wondered about one of the characters not surviving. All of them are JKR's characters. From Stan Shunpipe to Rookwood, to Harry Potter. If its really a war now I suspect that many characters are not going to be with us.
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Choices - Dec 21, 2004 11:11 am (#2152 of 2923)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Right you are Steve - unfortunately there are bound to be casulties in a war. I'm not sure, but I think she means one of her main characters will be lost.
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Steve Newton - Dec 21, 2004 11:16 am (#2153 of 2923)
Librarian
Probably. I can't believe that she would kill off one of the trio, at least not in book 6. Everybody else should be on their toes. Wasn't it Lavender who was warned by Trelawney about the thing that she dreaded happening on October 16? If she starts worrying about the war it could be trouble.
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vball man - Dec 21, 2004 12:21 pm (#2154 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
vball man: You could be right, but I doubt it,
I hope so, Recurring Boy who Lived theory (which I wrote) predicts that Dumbledore was the Half-Blood (and raised as a pampered little) Prince.
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Liz Mann - Dec 21, 2004 3:18 pm (#2155 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Wow, I just heard on CNN that JKR has announced that book 6 will be released on July 16 - and one of the characters won't survive.
I haven't heard anything about her saying one of the characters won't survive. CNN said that J.K. said that? At the same time she said about the release date? Well, first of all it wasn't her that said about the release date, it was Bloomsbury. And secondly, she hasn't done any interviews lately so where else would she say it but her website? And she says nothing of the sort on there. I think the press are making up details again.
(Of course we know characters are going to die in the last two books, but CNN are pinpointing one particular character, and she hasn't said anything about how many.)
Dumbledore as the half-blood prince? That's an interesting idea.
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Aurora Gubbins - Dec 21, 2004 3:43 pm (#2156 of 2923)
Not sure if this is for this thread or for the website thread: If as some of us think, door 25 will reveal cover art, that could be a huge clue! Hopefully
Aurora xx
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Choices - Dec 21, 2004 8:04 pm (#2157 of 2923)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I am pretty sure that's what CNN said - "One of her characters won't survive" Don't know if they were quoting JKR or not. I was listening to the report from another room, so I could have mis-heard. I, personally, think this is the book where we are going to lose Dumbledore - probably right near the end. When I heard the report, that's immediately who I thought of. If it's him, I am going to be so sad - I just love Dumbledore.
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Mandie MacLaren - Dec 21, 2004 10:35 pm (#2158 of 2923)
Actually, Choices, I read something to that effect in the article I posted a ways back... er... the wee hours of 12/20... There have been SO many posts within the past 24-some-odd hours! But anyway, in another article I read today, it says:
"For months, Rowling has been revealing details of her new book, naming the titles of three chapters — Chapter 2: Spinners End; Chapter 6: Draco’s Detour; Chapter 14: Felix Felicis — and even confiding that one of her characters will not survive, although she refused to say who. Potter himself is safe, at least for now. Rowling has said her teenage hero will survive until the seventh and final book in the series, but has refused to say whether he will reach adulthood."
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6741038/)
It's Associated Press, and the writer almost implies that she said that on her website.
Isn't it funny to picture these journalists sniffing around JK's site... do you reckon they had to solve the clues under the Christmas tree, too?
I mean, I'm sure it didn't happen this way, but I just get this goofy picture of an editor screaming about a deadline, and the poor writer ripping his hair out... "four in a pair and eight in a quarter?! I don't know, I don't KNOW!!!"
Tee hee! Guess I'm just tired! Past my bedtime here in snowy Buffalo!
And thanks, Hollywand, I will check out that thread! I have SOOO much reading to catch up on!
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Wendelin the Weird - Dec 21, 2004 11:01 pm (#2159 of 2923)
burned at the stake 47 times and counting...
Hmmm... I know she has said the release date is at midnight on July 16th, so does that mean the very first minute of the 16th, or the very last minute of the 16th? That always confuses me... *slaps forehead*
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Helen Potterfan - Dec 21, 2004 11:27 pm (#2160 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
In the "About the books" section of the web site, she answers the question "Are you going to kill any more characters?" with "Yes. Sorry".
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OkieAngel - Dec 22, 2004 1:29 am (#2161 of 2923)
Well, it seems only reasonable that more characters are going to have to die. Assumedly, HBP is going to pick up where OoTP left off, and that's with the WW realising that Voldy is back and that another VW is imminent. It's a horrible fact of life that people die in war, and as these stories are (mostly) from Harry's point of view, then we (the readers) will see the deaths that affect him (and the storyline)most.
Now, that my logical side has spoken, let my clingy foolish side speak and say that I have barely (and I do mean barely)come to terms with losing Snuffles, I don't think I could handle losing DD or Lupin. More to the point, I don't think Harry could either, imho. Now, I'm gonna end this before I get booted to another thread...
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Ginerva Potter - Dec 22, 2004 6:56 am (#2162 of 2923)
Hi Wendelin - It's the first minute of the 16th.
Ginny
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Liz Mann - Dec 22, 2004 8:13 am (#2163 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
In the "About the books" section of the web site, she answers the question "Are you going to kill any more characters?" with "Yes. Sorry".
Yes, but that refers to both HBP and book 7, and she has said absolutely nothing on her site about how many characters are going to die, in either book. The British newspaper The Daily Mail is now saying the same thing as CNN, but I think they're getting their info from each other rather than J.K. They are making up details as a marketing ploy, which is really not necessary since this book is already a number one best seller just from pre-orders.
J.K. has updated her website again to comment on a few things, including a rumour that the book is 38 chapters long, about which subject she says, "Listen carefully, I shall say this only once: the only sources you should trust concerning information on the Half-Blood Prince are official spokespeople for my publishers and my official website... Let's face it: it wouldn't be a new Harry Potter book if hoaxers didn't pop up regularly on the net claiming to know new characters, or plot-lines, or to have found new chapters lying around a printer's back yard... So let's agree here and now that each of these 'claims' comes with a barrel of salt and rise together above the madness."
I think we should apply that to everything we hear from somewhere that's not either of those two sources. So until I hear the 'one character dies' thing from J.K. or her publishers, I won't believe it.
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Odds Bodikins - Dec 22, 2004 8:26 am (#2164 of 2923)
I told my wife that I have made my plans for our wedding anniversary next year. I will be reading the HBP! What a great anniversary present for me( not so much for my wife)!
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Marie E. - Dec 22, 2004 9:52 am (#2165 of 2923)
Lizz, I think that is excellent advice. It's hard telling where those other news sources are getting their information unless they quote one of her publishers or her website.
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Eliza - Dec 22, 2004 11:07 am (#2166 of 2923)
I have been rereading Prisoner of Azkaban for the third time and I think that we have met a character that we will be hearing more about. Possible half-blood prince, possible not. I believe he is an untrained wizard, which means he was probably raised but muggles who refused to let him go to Hogwarts and probably never even told him. This character is Colonel Fubster. And I believe he is an untrained wizard due to Chapter 2, pgs 25-26 At that moment, the wineglass Aunt Marge was holding ex- ploded in her hand. Shards of glass flew in every direction and Aunt Marge spuddered and blinked, her great ruddy face dripping. "Marge!" squealed Aunt Petunia. "Marge, are you all right?" "Not to worry," grunted Aunt Marge, mopping her face with her napkin. "Must have squeezed it too hard. Did the same thing at Colonel Fubster's the other day. No need to fuss, Petunia, I have a very firm grip..." I don't know about you guys but I have never heard of someone "squeezing" a wineglass too hard and making it "explode". I think this may have been a hint about poor old Colonel Fubster. I think that a fully trained wizard may have been able to control himself even around "dear sweet" Aunt Marge. However, I can't think of a person more likely to cause involuntary magic in an untrained wizard.
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Steve Newton - Dec 22, 2004 11:44 am (#2167 of 2923)
Librarian
Eliza, I have noted that scene but I came to the conclusion that Aunt Marge was the one who will come lately to magic. I wouldn't want to have to defend that position though.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 22, 2004 11:45 am (#2168 of 2923)
Great post Liz, well said!
Eliza, great idea! It will be interesting to see if Colonel Fubster turns up again. I am a firm believer in we have only heard of the HBP in passing. He is not a major character in the first five books. LPO
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Liz Mann - Dec 22, 2004 1:26 pm (#2169 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Thanks.
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Scales - Dec 22, 2004 11:15 pm (#2170 of 2923)
aka Miss Granger
I was just reading some comments and had a funny idea on who might die in HBP. Viktor Krum...he will be gone and Hermione will go running to Ron for comfort. (Perhaps this should go in 'ship 'ship...LOL.)
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 23, 2004 11:32 am (#2171 of 2923)
Maybe the half blood prince is not a royal but a defender of the half bloods.Prince can also mean an outstanding man in any rank or class.
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Verschwinden Sie - Dec 23, 2004 1:41 pm (#2172 of 2923)
As it has been a great while since I have posted anything significant on this forum, or indeed have read anything on it, I don't know if this has been suggested, so ignore me if it has been.
I just thought I'd take this opportunity to point out that to my recollection, J.K. Rowling has never established the ancestry for Albus Dumbledore or his brother Aberforth.
I would also like to note that if she has established ANYONE as king of the wizarding world, it's Albus Dumbledore, and that the brother of a king may still be called a prince.
Just a thought.
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hellocello3200 - Dec 23, 2004 3:10 pm (#2173 of 2923)
Scales, I hope not! I don't know if I can stand another I-So-Sad-you-know-who-killed-my boyfriend-so-I'm-going-to-cry-on-the-shoulder-of-the-nearest-guy girl. I also hope not because I kinda like Victor.
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Scales - Dec 23, 2004 3:33 pm (#2174 of 2923)
aka Miss Granger
hellocello600 ... I don't really think Hermione is the type of girl that would go crying to some guy over another. Besides, I don't think Viktor is that important of a character to kill off (although poor, not so thought of important Cedric got the axe (still in tears like Chao). I am just too scared it will be Lupin or Hagrid, and I don't want to even think of those possible loses so I must supply my brain with the less painful thoughts.
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Liz Mann - Dec 23, 2004 4:06 pm (#2175 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Half-Blood 'Price' could be a scheptical term. It might be a mocking name the Death Eaters have for one of the characters. The person may not be royalty at all. Snape might call Harry a prince because of the way people go out of their way to look after him. I know Harry is not the half-blood prince, but you get my meaning?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 23, 2004 4:28 pm (#2176 of 2923)
Half-Blood Prince could be someone from a different country. I don't think Krum is the HBP. LPO
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 23, 2004 7:51 pm (#2177 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I can't remember who but someone referred to Dumbledore as the champion of the Half-Bloods didn't they. I could be wrong but I seem to remember one of the bad guys referring to him in that manner. Another point for DD being the HBP.
Mikie
That is if I'm right.
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Liz Mann - Dec 24, 2004 4:44 am (#2178 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Did they say that? I haven't read the last few chapters of OotP since the book first came out (because of a certain death ). I am intending to change that in the new year, though.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 24, 2004 8:05 am (#2179 of 2923)
I still have trouble reading that section too Liz, my heart still pounds and tears do well!
I do remember someone championing DD for Half-bloods but can't think where I read it at the moment, too busy trying to sneak my little girl's presents into her Santa sack ready to take to my Mum's!
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vball man - Dec 24, 2004 8:59 am (#2180 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
GOF (graveyard after Vol's rebirth): "And I answer myself, perhaps they believed a still greater power could exist, one that could vanquish even Lord Voldemort. . . perhaps they now pay allegiance to another . . . perhaps that champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles, Albus Dumbledore?"
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KTO - Dec 24, 2004 10:09 am (#2181 of 2923)
This forum has made me insane. Before I joined I like Harry Potter but am now addicted, had no idea that there were so many layers. Am doing a reread but with a totally different frame of mind, I am suspicious of everything. Late last night I was doing anagrams looking for half blood prince - got famous royal malfoy, from using Lucius Malfoy and Draco Malfoy, but had lots of leftover letters that did NOTHING!! Also in my re-reading, chapter seven, book one, american version. When everyone is being introduced noticed that Neville stated "but the family thought I was ALL-MUGGLE for ages" if he is a full blooded wizard, wouldn't the quote have been, "the family thought I was a SQUIB".
Like I said, I have become insane. am off to continue reading and making myself crazy. Happy Holidays to all, KT
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Veritaserum - Dec 24, 2004 10:19 am (#2182 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Interesting point about Neville, KT. But I have to say I rather like the idea of DD being the half-blood prince. Before I was never really thrilled about the idea of a prince being introduced so late into things (maybe because I am american), but I could definitely see in being DD, either really or figuratively.
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Leprechaun Jack! - Dec 24, 2004 1:12 pm (#2183 of 2923)
The cow says...moo, the sheep says...baa, and the Bear says WOOF.
I had mentioned in the JKR site thread and thought it should be posted here.
What if the HBP is not a new or current character but someone from the past. There is usually more then one scene in every story where the trio is in History of magic, but we never seem to learn much about the subject. The exception to that was when Hermione asked Prof Binns about the COS.
Perhaps, the same will happen again instead this time it will be a lesson about the HBP that shows Harry the way to Voldy's downfall.
Just a thought.
Jack
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Eliza - Dec 24, 2004 2:32 pm (#2184 of 2923)
KTO, I mentioned that back in post #1956, but it has been argued that Neville was stated as a pure-blood in CoS when he was buy talismans and also that Dumbledore said that Neville was a pure blood in OoP when he was explaining the prediction to Harry and stated that Voldemort chose the half-blood (Harry) like himself (Voldemort), instead of the pure-blood (Neville). However, as we have many times been made aware, Dumbledore DOES NOT know EVERYTHING. Running and ducking to avoid dung bombs!!!!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 24, 2004 4:33 pm (#2185 of 2923)
Jack, That would allow for the HBP to be Godric Gryffindor. I don't think we have met the HBP yet. LPO
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Ydnam96 - Dec 24, 2004 8:33 pm (#2186 of 2923)
Leprechuan Jack,
I am totally in agreement with you. I think it's a "new" character in that we haven't really seen/heard from him personally yet, but it's someone who existed in the past.
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dizzy lizzy - Dec 26, 2004 2:06 am (#2187 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
I had a rather mindshattering thought the other day (Midnight on Christmas Eve in the middle of a brilliant thunderstorm I might add) and I wanted to ask you all about it. I hope I'm on the right thread...
You know how Jo has said books 6 & 7 are really closely linked, like two halves, well the thought I had is if book 6 is finished and off to the publishers, book 7 must either have a very very detailed plot summary or on its first/second intial draft.
The reason is it seems impossible to me to write book 6 without writing book 7 (or a very detailed plot outline) since the two are rather closely linked.
I don't think it will mean we will get book 7 quicker though.
I tried to get the gist of my brainwave across so I hope you can understand it.
Have a wonderful new year everyone.
Lizzy
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the7eagle - Dec 26, 2004 8:59 am (#2188 of 2923)
dizzy lizzy - You know how Jo has said books 6 & 7 are really closely linked, like two halves, well the thought I had is if book 6 is finished and off to the publishers, book 7 must either have a very very detailed plot summary or on its first/second intial draft.
dizzy lizzy, even i've been toying with a similar thought for some time but on the contary i thought maybe the release will be much sooner as compared to the other books
well lets hope all the same
theEagle
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Hermy-own - Dec 26, 2004 9:19 am (#2189 of 2923)
S.P.R.W. Vice President = Ponine
Lizzy, I wasn't aware that books 6 and 7 will be closely linked. If that's the case, then yes, you'd have to assume that we won't have too long to wait before book 7. Encouraging, isn't it?
But, as usual, we must consider the part played by the publishers and the other business gurus involved here. They'd want to make sure that sales of book 6, as well as the associated merchandise, reach saturation. I'm sure HBP will follow OotP and GoF in their sales-record-breaking ways, but there's a lot that goes on outside of how quickly Rowling writes that influences when the books are to be released. It's all about maximising profits, these days. Perhaps someone with a better insight into economics can better explain this? Perhaps it belongs on another thread?
I'm new to this thread and am fascinated by some the ideas that have been put forward. To be honest, I don't know who will be - or is - the HBP, but I've always had a feeling it might be someone we already know. Just a feeling.
Back to what Lizzy said ... If books 6 and 7 are closely related, I wonder whether this half-blood prince, whoever he is, will play a similarly key role in the final book. (I'm assuming he'll have a pretty big part to play in book 6.)
Hermy.
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Gerald Costales - Dec 26, 2004 10:33 am (#2190 of 2923)
Re: post#2174
"I just thought I'd take this opportunity to point out that to my recollection, J.K. Rowling has never established the ancestry for Albus Dumbledore or his brother Aberforth.
I would also like to note that if she has established ANYONE as king of the wizarding world, it's Albus Dumbledore, and that the brother of a king may still be called a prince.
Just a thought." Andrew Buchanan
This is really such an interesting thought. But, if Albus is a possible King then if Albus dies or is killed then wouldn't Aberforth be the new King? Wouldn't put it past a Death Eater acting on this. Aberforth would be a weak King compared to Albus.
To add further speculation about the Dumbledores, I've posted that Albus and Aberforth might be Twins. So, if they were Twins then a matter of minutes seperates Aberforth (the second born) from any throne that exists or existed.
Don't think of Aberforth as the killer type but jealously (Fudge), resentment (Wormtail & Snape) and lust for power (Voldermort, Umbridge, & Percy) does do strange things and has changed people. And Aberforth is a bit mentally unbalanced given that goat thing (don't even want to get in to that by the way).
Just some other thoughts. ;-) GC
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dizzy lizzy - Dec 26, 2004 1:57 pm (#2191 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
I was also thinking later, that just because book seven might be written quicker than we think, like now or very soon, we won't get it any sooner either!
Lizzy
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The giant squid - Dec 26, 2004 3:53 pm (#2192 of 2923)
re: the coming of Book 7
While she may have a detailed outline and/or a scratch draft finished, bear in mind that she also has a new baby on the way. It's very likely that she'll take some time off completely to make sure the little one gets some proper parenting. I'm guessing it'll still be a couple years before we see the final (sob!) book.
--Mike
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 26, 2004 4:09 pm (#2193 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Unfortunately I have to agree with you Mike. She probably has the outline done. She has to know where it is going after 6 books. But I doubt if we see book 7 before late 2006 or early 2007. I think it deserves a little break right now and at least 3 to 4 months after the new one arrives.
Mikie
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Veritaserum - Dec 26, 2004 6:50 pm (#2194 of 2923)
Go Jays!
To GC: How do you know Aberforth would be a bad king if Albus gets knocked off? We know next to nothing about him (and the goat thing may or may not be literal). I think there's a lot more to Abby than meets the eye personally. That's not to say I think he's the HBP, cuz I haven't made up my mind on who I want to be him.
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 26, 2004 7:05 pm (#2195 of 2923)
Well we do know that the final chapter in book 7 is already written so that will cut down on a little time.
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Denise S. - Dec 26, 2004 7:11 pm (#2196 of 2923)
We are not a cult, we're just slightly obsessed and mentally unstable. There's a difference. ([You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It'd be kind of funny if Aberforth ended up being the HBP, but when the series is almost finished, it'd be kind of strange to have such a little-known character suddenly become not just a prince, but important enough to be in the title to boot. My two knuts.
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Steve Newton - Dec 26, 2004 7:14 pm (#2197 of 2923)
Librarian
Why do I get the feeling that Aberforth is weaker, magically, that Albus. I get the impression of a loner and no feeling of power, great or weak.
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the7eagle - Dec 26, 2004 8:37 pm (#2198 of 2923)
Well it is true that jo has a baby on the way
but given the fact that book 6 is smaller than the previous one and the fact that it is closely knit to the 7th
wouldnt it be less responsibility for jo if the book was already in essence done
(except maybe the editing)
then she's got all the time in the world to dedicate to her new baby and worry not about deadlines and such things.
Bear in mind she already had pre-decided about all the main events and plot lines even as she was writing book 1
& she knew where she wanted book 7 to be headed.
So given those facts, book 7 was already ready on day 1. Just that she required to place it in a proper story format
just my thought, with nothing else to do at present
theEagle
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Verschwinden Sie - Dec 27, 2004 12:31 am (#2199 of 2923)
In this case, I don't honestly think that being "king of the wizarding world" is a matter of hereditary as much as it is something that one comes into through merit, so I doubt very much that Aberforth Dumbledore would become "king of the wizarding world upon Albus Dumbledore's death any more than he would become Headmaster of Hogwarts.
And with that let me stop and say that the whole "king of the wizarding world" is just a bit of literary speculation and analysis on my part... to my knowledge J.K. Rowling has never mentioned anyone at all as being a "king" in the wizarding world.
But, going back to something I said a very long time ago, it seems to me that in the wizarding world we have the iconic #1 wizard (Albus Dumbledore) who is very carefully manipulating a conflict between his two "prodigal sons" (those being Tom Riddle and Harry Potter).
I imagine if anyone ends up "inheriting" the status Albus Dumbledore has achieved in the wizarding world, it will be the winner of that particular fight. Let's just hope J.K. Rowling isn't overly fond of Shakespeare when it comes to these things...
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Ginerva Potter - Dec 27, 2004 8:24 am (#2200 of 2923)
This is really such an interesting thought. But, if Albus is a possible King then if Albus dies or is killed then wouldn't Aberforth be the new King? - Gerald Costales
Isn't this assuming that Albus doesn't have any sons? Wouldn't the son of a king be the next in line? I think that Jo has said somewhere that spouses of professors play an important role. That said, what if Albus' wife is a muggle. Then any sons they might have would be princes (also assuming Albus as a king). Just a thought....
Ginny
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2201 to 2250)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:49 am
Eliza - Dec 27, 2004 8:44 am (#2201 of 2923)
I only have just one problem with book 7 coming out too soon. What are we going to do when the series is over? It is one of those things that is both exciting and scary. We wait with anticipation then when we are done there is a certain sadness that it is over.
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Gerald Costales - Dec 27, 2004 9:55 am (#2202 of 2923)
I not sure any Wizard royalty exists presently in the UK. So, I'm inclined to think the Half-Blood Prince's title is from more likely a Muggle source. But there are always exceptions for instance, Dean Thomas' father could be a King or Prince of another Wizarding country that still has royalty. I've read some speculation that Dean's father was an African Prince.
Also, the Prince title could be a former claim to a throne. The heirs of the last Tsar, last Kaiser, last Shah of Iran, etc. could be restated to their thrones if offered that chance. Didn't the last King of Afghanistan return from exile in Italy to give his support to the new President of Afghanistan?
Royalty is fickle. The last Stuart to claim the throne of England was rejected, because he was Catholic, by Parliament and the throne was give to a distant royal relative in Hanover. This Hanoverian (German) became King George I of England. (George III his grandson was King during the American Revolution.)
I'm also inclined to think that the Prince title isn't literal. The "Weasley is our King!" taunt wasn't taken literally. And there is that possibility that the Half-Blood Prince is a person from the past. So, Godric Gryffindor or his son could be the Half-Blood Prince. ;-) GC
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scoop2172000 - Dec 27, 2004 10:10 am (#2203 of 2923)
Eliza: Jo has not closed the door on writing another book (or books) past the seventh Harry Potter novel. She said so in an interview (which one I can't recall: help me out here, gang.)
Perhaps she has something in mind already, but she won't say so until the 7th book comes out, because to say something early could ruin the biggest cliffhanger of the series: will Harry survive.
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KTO - Dec 27, 2004 10:17 am (#2204 of 2923)
my prediction is that book seven is going to come out in Dec of 05, I think it is done, KT
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Veritaserum - Dec 27, 2004 10:59 am (#2205 of 2923)
Go Jays!
yeah, I still am not comfortable with the whole idea of wizarding royalty. It just seems too late in the game to be randomly throwing in something so important. And we know Jo doesn't just randomly throw anything in. So I guess I'm leaning toward a non-literal title, but I still can't fathom what a half blood prince has to do with the direction the books are headed in and with VWII.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 27, 2004 3:40 pm (#2206 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I have to agree that the HBP will probably not be royalty. It just makes sense that he will be a champion of half-bloods and not a real prince. I too believe that it is getting kinda late to bring in a new character not introduced before. The new DADA teacher will probably be an exception as each of them have been new characters. I agree with Veritaserum about the idea of wizarding royalty. JKR has spent 5 entire books showing us that blood doen't matter and to now bring in a member of wizarding royalty seems against her grain.
Mikie
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vball man - Dec 27, 2004 4:33 pm (#2207 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I'm not comfortable with wizarding royalty, either. I prefer the usage of "prince" that Dumbledore used in OoP:
you arrived at Hogwarts, neither as happy nor as well-nourished as I would have liked, perhaps, yet alive and healthy You were not a pampered little prince, but as normal a boy as I could have hoped under the circumstances
(The only other time the word "prince" occurs in the series is a reference to an african prince at the preparations for the Q World Cup.)
So I think that DD was the "pampered prince." DD has tried to keep Harry from being "pampered." But Harry is still sort of a prince in that he will probably take over Dumbledore's "rule."
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Steve Newton - Dec 27, 2004 4:58 pm (#2208 of 2923)
Librarian
The only 'royalty' that we know of is Lord Voldemort. A self given title. Perhaps this Prince is also self titled, the leader of the resistance to Lord V. Not Harry, of course.
Edited for a very slight increase in intelligence.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 27, 2004 7:42 pm (#2209 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
I've just spent an entirely unprofitable afternoon poring over all the giant stuff in OotP -- I was just sure that there was some kind of royal reference there other than the Gurg that could make either Hagrid or Grawp (my personal vote) the HBP. No such luck.
WHAM!
There goes another of my theories ...
Saralinda/Kayte
Consistently guessing wrong about Harry Potter since 2002."
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Ydnam96 - Dec 27, 2004 8:40 pm (#2210 of 2923)
Saralinda, I admire your dedication to correctness. It is not important that you might have some incorrect assumptions, what matters is that you care enough to research them. Don't be so hard on yourself!
I think that it's perfectly natural to assume there was a reference to royalty in the Giant section, I think that we think along those lines when we think of a heirarchy of society. It's natural to assume that a tribal leader would be seen as a form of royalty. Even if they are never spoken of that way. It was a perfectly legitamate theory. (I personally think most theories are viable until the books directly refute them)
Now we can continue the debate...who is the HBP?
My thoughts are that he is someone we've only heard about tangently (ie someone who is dead, like Godric. My personal theory is that he is the person JK let us get a "glimspe" of a few months ago.) He may or may not be "real" royalty, but a champion as was suggested in posts above for the muggle born wizards. Guess we'll see.
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vball man - Dec 27, 2004 10:20 pm (#2211 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Yeah, Saralinda, at least you're guessing! Really, I'd say that "Gurg" is used as a kind of king.
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Her-melanie - Dec 28, 2004 8:09 am (#2212 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I can't remember where this is in the books, and I don't have them with me to pore over them, but at some point Harry reads a book that calls magic "nature's royalty." If we look at the title of "Half-Blood Prince" from that perspective, it could indicate a kind of culmination of magic in one person. Sort of, someone that has a higher concentration of magic naturally in him, and has been "chosen" by magic itself as a sort of heir, or inherit-er. I'm explaining this badly, I know. So far, none of the titles has been figurative in any way; if it says Prisoner, that's what it means literally. This time, I wonder...
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scoop2172000 - Dec 28, 2004 8:40 am (#2213 of 2923)
Nature's Royalty was the name of a book at 12 Grimauld Place, which Harry and the Weasleys came across while cleaning the house.
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Elanor - Dec 28, 2004 1:55 pm (#2214 of 2923)
A lot of theories are very interesting and give food for thought, but I agree with Gerald, I think that the HBP comes from the past and that it is Godric Gryffindor.
There are several clues that connect him to nobility at least, if not royalty, and maybe to a half-blood lineage:
- his crest, whose likeness with the English medieval kings is disturbing, which crest comes from the Norman Dukedom one.
- his name: Gryffindor, griffin d'or, the golden griffin. Its French root (d'or) could be a connection to the Norman Dukedom as well.
- his sword: a rich muggle weapon, and not any weapon, a symbol of power and a powerful weapon as well.
Besides, the entire story and actual war in the WW comes from the first fight between Slytherin and the 3 other founders, especially Gryffindor. Through the chamber of secrets, Slytherin has helped his "heir" to put his ideas forward. Gryffindor, through his hat (the Sorting Hat) has already given his sword to Harry when needed. He may have left something else for helping his "heirs" (spiritual or real) in a war he knew was to come one day. This legacy, whatever it is (knowledge, magic item...) could well be what DD's side, and especially Harry, will discover and use in the HBP.
EDIT: there is another clue I have just remembered: the "griffin" part in Gryffindor's name. "Like sphinxes, griffins are often employed by wizards to guard treasure." And it is JKR herself who says so, in FB (p.20)... So, our Gryffin(dor) should well "keep an ace in his sleeve" as we say here, wainting to be found...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 28, 2004 9:23 pm (#2215 of 2923)
My guess is book seven will come out in 07. After all, seven is a magical number!
The Lion is the King of the Beasts. We have a description of a lion like character. I think the Half-Blood Prince is connected to Gryffindor and is half Muggle. LPO
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Nicole Bloom - Dec 28, 2004 9:31 pm (#2216 of 2923)
I just noticed something on JK's website, if this has already been mentioned then please allow your attention to wander freely, if it belongs on a different thread then please feel free to move it.
On the extras page, before all the stuff moves in the way, there is a piece of paper which mentions the sorting hat. It also has the word "Gryffindor" and "HP". Both are circled and there is a line that connects the two.
Is this a clue that there is more of a connection between Godric Gryffindor and Harry other than Gryffindor is the house Harry belongs to? The second that I saw it, I immediately thought of Harry as Gryffindor's heir and when I saw the part about the sorting hat on the same page, it did not change my thinking.
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Eliza - Dec 28, 2004 11:06 pm (#2217 of 2923)
From what I can tell from what is written on that page, I believe that is the part of the sorting hat's song that will refer to Gryffindor in the HBP. Remember that the hat's song is new each year. I think that it is meant as a little treat for us but I do not believe that big of a bit of info away that easy. This is what I could figure out.
Hogwarts
Sorting Hat Description
You might be in Gryffindor. In these dwell the____ __ _____. These daring __________ and _________ set Gryffindor apart.
Feel free to add any more that you can make out.
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James Greenfield - Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am (#2218 of 2923)
Eliza:
From the pattern of the words, it could be that the blanks are filled with "brave of heart" "wizards" and "witches".
(I can't get anything but the text version, so I'm just guessing.)
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Gerald Costales - Dec 29, 2004 7:22 am (#2219 of 2923)
"Through the chamber of secrets, Slytherin has helped his "heir" to put his ideas forward. Gryffindor, through his hat (the Sorting Hat) has already given his sword to Harry when needed. He may have left something else for helping his "heirs" (spiritual or real) in a war he knew was to come one day. This legacy, whatever it is (knowledge, magic item...) could well be what DD's side, and especially Harry, will discover and use in the HBP." Elanor
The Chamber contained the Basilisk and it was in part defeated by Fawkes. Fawkes pecked out the Basilisk's eyes so Harry could kill the Basilisk with Gryffindor's sword.
I believe part of Gryffindor's legacy is Fawkes. I believe Fawkes was Godric's pet Phoenix and now is Dumbledore's pet. Back to the Chamber, Fawkes' tears is an antidote to the Basilisk's poison. And Fawkes' Phoenix song inspired Harry in the Graveyard, etc. And finally, the core of Harry's wand is a tail feather from Fawkes.
Fawkes' feather is also the core of Voldermort's wand. But why Voldermort and Harry both share that core and have Brother wands is still a mystery. Voldermort received his wand when he was Tom Riddle and before the Chamber was opened. Voldermort used his wand on the infant Harry. That initial use of Voldermort's wand on Harry resulted in a rebounded spell and left Harry's "lightning bolt" scar. The second time Voldermort's wand was used on Harry, both Voldermort's and Harry's wands locked becaused of that shared wand core.
Me thinks there is more to Fawkes then meets the eye, whether Fawkes' was previously owned by Godric or not. ;-) GC
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Ann - Dec 29, 2004 7:29 am (#2220 of 2923)
The page with Gryffindor and the HP (each in a circle) attached by a line has been much discussed. There are two versions, one on the left side of the Extra Stuff page and the other, inverted, on the upper left corner of the Desktop page. Both contain the Gryffindor verse of the Sorting Hat's song from PS/SS.
Two weird things I just noticed, however: First, the pages aren't the same, as one would expect if they are just a random page that the site-makers have scattered around the site (like so many others). The one on the Extra Stuff page has only "Hogwarts" at the top, whereas the one on the Desktop page has (I think) "Houses of Hogwarts." Then both say "Sorting Hat Description," but the lines below (from the song) are broken differently. In both, the verse ends with a horizontal line, but on the Desktop version, this is followed by two more verses, the first of which is Hufflepuff. The Extra Stuff page seems to be blank below the line.
The second weird thing is that above the circled "Gryffindor" at left is a very smeared word that seems to begin with H followed by four or five letters, then a capital B or P, then more letters. I thought maybe "Half Blood Prince" (though it is a little long, and I couldn't see the capital P of Prince) or "Harry Potter" (but that's too short, the first word has a tall sign in it that doesn't fit, and the HP below would make it redundant). What it actually looks like to me is something like "Holy Plippfes," but that can't be right.
Anyone else want to try? (I suppose this belongs on the web site thread, but if it does say Half Blood Prince it would be relevant here. I realize that this page seems to relate to Book 1 of course, but if the HBP was originally important in Book 2, she might have made such a note while writing Book 1.)
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kj09 - Dec 29, 2004 7:50 am (#2221 of 2923)
Gerald Costales-Where does it say that the phoenix feather in the wands was that of Fawkes? All I found was that it said "the phoenix" not anyone impeticular. This is from the first book, I don't remember it being discussed in another, but I could be wrong.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Dec 29, 2004 8:28 am (#2222 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Exactly," said Dumbledore. "Harry's wand and Voldemorts wand share cores. Each of them contains a feather from the tail of the same phoenix. This phoenix, in fact," he added, and he pointed at the scarlet-and-gold bird, perching peacefully on Harry's knee. "My wand's feather came from Fawkes?" Harry said, amazed. "Yes," said Dumbledore. "Mr. Ollivander wrote to tell me you had bought the second wand, the moment you left his shop four years ago." GOF Chap 36
Edited: Mistyped chapter number.
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 29, 2004 8:34 am (#2223 of 2923)
-Where does it say that the phoenix feather in the wands was that of Fawkes? In GOF chapter 36 pg 697.Dumdledore said;"Harry's wand and Voldemort's wand share cores.Each of them contains a feather from the tail of the same phoenix.This phoenix, in fact,"he added,and he pointed at the scarlet-and-gold bird,perching peacefully on Harry's knee.
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 29, 2004 8:35 am (#2224 of 2923)
Sorry TBE cross posted.
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kj09 - Dec 29, 2004 9:31 am (#2225 of 2923)
Oh, I guess I forgot about that. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Ya know, I hadn't read any of these books until the latter end of last year. In a way I'm kind of glad, only because I can't stand waiting for the new book to release. I can't imagine what it would've been like to wait for the last 4 books. I actually started with the third through the fifth, then went back to read the second and am now reading the first finally. This probably sounds crazy, but that's just the way it ended up. By the sound of things I think I need to reread the whole set.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 29, 2004 10:24 am (#2226 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
[Wow, kj09, I envy you! The first readings are such an amazing adventure! Congratulations on "catching the fever" and welcome to this happy goofy band. Don't be surprised if you still feel the same excitement on the twentieth reading.]
On topic:
Fawkes is certainly becoming a more and more critical story point, isn't he?
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Amilia Smith - Dec 30, 2004 12:54 am (#2227 of 2923)
As I am actually all caught up on my threads, I was reading through some old JKR interviews over on Quick Quotes. This is from "The Connection" (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999.
"I’ve got to write what I want to write. If by Book 6, I’m only writing to 6 people and I’ve lost everyone else, yeah, I’m going to be sorry about that, but I will feel that I have to stand by what I want to do."
Just thought I'd share a little chuckle with all "five" of my fellow fans as we sit here at the Lexicon waiting for Book 6. :-)
Mills.
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Eponine - Dec 30, 2004 8:03 am (#2228 of 2923)
Yeah, there won't be many of us left here at the Lexicon. =)
I'm quite excited about HBP (who wouldn't be?), but I'm not very good at making predictions so I'm not really going to try. I don't the the Half Blood Prince is an established character. I think we may have heard the name before, but that's about it. I also tend to think that he's an historical character as well.
Counting down the days...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 30, 2004 9:06 am (#2229 of 2923)
Amelia Smith you made my day! What a great quote to share. The "six" are pretty darn wealthy to pre-order enough copies of HBP to but it as the #1 selling book. Eponine I visit Leaky every day (OK several times a day) to see their countdown. It is great! Days, Hours, Minutes and Seconds...... Its under 200 now.
I posted this thought on the Fawkes thread, he is the only Phoenix character we know. There are several connections with him, Voldemort, DD, Harry and Godric. I am certain he will be very important in the final battle. I think the name Order of the Phoenix is very significant. LPO
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kj09 - Dec 30, 2004 9:20 am (#2230 of 2923)
Did anyone remember that the Death Eaters were once called "The Knights of Walpurgis"? I wonder if they have anything to do with the HBP? A reference to the name Walpurgis is a woman born in Europe in the year 710, said to be the daughter of King Richard. Supposedly settled in Brittain and later became a Saint.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 10:42 am (#2231 of 2923)
That is very interesting kj09! Where did you get all that from? I'm fasinated by the connections JKR has made with ancient UK culture.
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kj09 - Dec 30, 2004 10:53 am (#2232 of 2923)
Finally someone replied :-) It is from an interwiew with the BBC from last year. I'll copy the transcript:
JKR: This must not be seen too closely. This is the plan for Order of the Phoenix. I have these grid things for every book - well I have about 12 grid things for every book. It's just a way of reminding myself what has to happen in each chapter to advance us in the plot. And then you have all your sub-plots. It's just a way of keeping track of what going on.
JP: And these scraps of paper which you've filed elegantly in a carrier, they're plot ideas or...
JKR: Well some of them are totally redundant now because its been written and I keep them out of sentimentality's sake, I suppose. But some of it has backstory in it like this - in here is the history of the Death Eaters and I don't know that I'll ever actually need it - but at some point - which were once called something different - they were called the Knights of Walpurgis. I don't know if I'll need it. But I like knowing it. I like to keep that sort of stuff on hand.
When I hear the term Knights, I just think of royalty right away. Then I did a search for the Walpurgis and got a ton of stuff on it. It's actually a celebrated holiday. I really thought this would create a bigger stir.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 10:59 am (#2233 of 2923)
OOoooooooo! makes them sound a bit less naughty though doen't it, calling them Knights!?
Maybe we should keep an eye out for this "holiday" it might have some significance in one of the following books?
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Veritaserum - Dec 30, 2004 11:40 am (#2234 of 2923)
Go Jays!
It's interesting that they were called the Knights when Order is generally construed (at least in this context) to be an order of knight-ish people.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 30, 2004 11:59 am (#2235 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
And, for those who haven't Googled it yet, Walpurgisnacht is the night of April 30-May 1.
Hmm, I wonder if that date will have any significance in HBP or book 7 -- or maybe even involving on of the books -- like art coming out, or a teaser quote. I mean, she has already acknowledged the solstices [winter solstice, release of HBP's availability date; summer solstice, actual release of OotP].
Rats, I don't have the books handy. What was the date of Task Three in GoF? Did Voldie time his revival for Walpurgis Night?
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 12:05 pm (#2236 of 2923)
The third task took place on June 24th (GOF Chpt.26 p.440 UK HB)
As far as i know there isn't anything special about June 24th but i'm off to Google it!
Edit: ok so on June 24th the following happened;
1100-1899 1128 - Battle of St.Mamede, near Guimarães. Portuguese forces led by Afonso I beat his mother D.Teresa and D.Fernão Peres de Trava. After this battle, the future king calls himself "Prince of Portugal", the first step towards independence in 1143. 1314 - Battle of Bannockburn. Scottish forces led by Robert the Bruce beat Edward II of England. Scotland regains its independence. 1374 - A sudden outbreak of St. John's Dance causes people in the streets of Aix-la-Chapelle, Prussia, to experience hallucinations and begin to jump and twitch uncontrollably until they collapse from exhaustion. 1441 - Eton College founded. 1497 - John Cabot lands on North America, either at Newfoundland or Cape Breton; first European discovery of the region since the Vikings. 1497 - Cornish traitors Michael An Gof and Thomas Flamank executed at Tyburn, London 1509 - Henry VIII crowned King of England. 1534 - Jacques Cartier makes the European discovery of Prince Edward Island. 1535 - The Anabaptist state of Münster is conquered and disbanded. 1597 - The first Dutch voyage to the East Indies reaches Bantam (on Java). 1662 - Dutch attempt but fail to capture Macao. 1664 - The colony of New Jersey is founded. 1692 - Kingston, Jamaica founded. 1793 - First republican constitution in France adopted. 1812 - Napoleonic Wars: Napoleon's invasion of Russia begins. 1859 - Battle of Solferino (Battle of the Three Sovereigns). Sardinia and France defeat Austria in northern Italy. 1861 - Tennessee becomes the 11th and last state to secede from the US. 1880 - First performance of O Canada, the song that would become the national anthem of Canada, at the Congrès national des Canadiens-Français. 1894 - The IOC decides to hold the Olympic Games every four years.
1900-1999 1901 - First exhibition of Pablo Picasso's work opens. 1910 - Japan invades Korea. 1913 - Greece and Serbia annul their alliance with Bulgaria. 1915 - The steamer Eastland capsizes in Chicago. 800 people die. 1916 - Mary Pickford becomes first film star to get million dollar contract. 1918 - First airmail service in Canada from Montreal to Toronto. 1918 - The giant cannon Big Bertha begins bombardments on Paris 1932 - A military coup ends the absolute power of the king of Siam (Thailand). 1940 - France and Italy sign an armistice. 1941 - The Germans capture Vilna, Brest-Litovsk, and Kaunas. 1945 - The U.S.S.R. capture the Free Republic of Schwarzenberg. 1946 - Georges Bidault becomes Prime Minister of France 1947 - First known sighting of UFOs: Kenneth Arnold, flying over Washington, notices nine luminous disks in the form of saucers. 1948 - Start of the Berlin Blockade. The Soviet Union makes overland travel between the West with West Berlin impossible. 1957 - The U.S. Supreme Court rules that obsecnity is not protected by the First Amendment. 1963 - Zanzibar is granted internal self-government by the UK. 1974 - The UPC label is used for the first time to ring up purchases at a supermarket. 1975 - An Eastern Airlines Boeing 727 crashes at John F. Kennedy Airport, New York. 113 people die. 1983 - Sally Ride, first female American astronaut, returns to earth. 1983 - Yasir Arafat banned from Damascus. 1993 - Yale computer science professor Dr. David Gelernter loses the sight in one eye, the hearing in one ear, and part of his right hand after receiving a mailbomb from the Unabomber. 1996 - Michael Johnson breaks the world record in the 400 metres with a time of 19.66 seconds 1999 - The guitar which Eric Clapton recorded Layla is sold at auction for the astounding price of $497,500.
Births
1700-1899 1777 - John Ross, naval officer and explorer (d. 1856) 1795 - Ernst Heinrich Weber, anatomist and physiologist (d. 1878) 1803 - George James Webb, composer 1842 - Ambrose Bierce, author (d. 1914, speculative) 1850 - Horatio Kitchener, 1st Earl Kitchener of Khartoum, original Order of Merit member (d. 1916) 1882 - Carl Diem, sports scientist (d. 1962) 1883 - Victor Franz Hess, American physicist 1888 - Gerrit Rietveld, Dutch architect (d. 1964) 1895 - Jack Dempsey, boxer (d. 1983)
1900-1999 1901 - Harry Partch, microtonal composer (d. 1974) 1906 - Pierre Fournier, French cellist (d. 1986) 1909 - David Rose, composer, musician (d. 1990) 1911 - Juan Manuel Fangio, Argentinian race car driver (d. 1995) 1915 - Fred Hoyle, cosmologist, science fiction author (d. 2001) 1922 - Tata Giacobetti, Italian singer and lyricist (Quartetto Cetra) 1928 - Wolfgang Altenburg, German general 1930 - Claude Chabrol, film director 1931 - Billy Casper, professional golfer 1942 - Mick Fleetwood, blues/pop/rock musician (Fleetwood Mac) 1942 - Michele Lee, actress 1944 - Jeff Beck, rock guitarist ("Yardbirds") 1944 - Chris Wood, rock musician 1945 - Colin Blunstone, rock musician ("The Zombies") 1945 - George Pataki, Governor of New York 1946 - Ellison Onizuka, astronaut (d. 1986) 1953 - Garry Shider, musician (P Funk) 1960 - Trisha Meili, author of I Am the Central Park Jogger 1967 - Richard Kruspe-Bernstein, lead guitarist for Rammstein 1969 - Sissel Kyrkjebø, Norwegian singer 1970 - Glenn Medeiros, Hawaiian singer-songwriter 1985 - Matthew Dezendorf, Programmer, actor, and composer 1986 - Solange Knowles, actress, singer
Deaths
0-1499 1439 - Frederick IV of Austria - Regent of Tyrol and Further Austria
1500-1899 1519 - Lucrezia Borgia, duchess of Ferrara (b. 1480) 1604 - Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, hereditary Lord Great Chamberlain of England
1900-1999 1908 - Grover Cleveland, former president of the USA (heart failure) 1922 - Walther Rathenau, minister of Foreign Affairs for the Weimar Republic (b. 1867, assassinated) 1947 - Emil Seidel, politician, mayor of Milwaukee, Socialist vice-presidential candidate 1953 - George Herbert Walker, grandfather to President George H. W. Bush 1987 - Jackie Gleason, actor, musician 1993 - Archie Williams, American athlete
2000-2099 2000 - Vera Atkins, Special Operations Executive intelligence officer 2002 - Pierre Werner, former Prime Minister of Luxembourg, "father of the euro" 2003 - Maynard Jackson, former mayor of Atlanta, Georgia 2003 - Leon Uris, author 2004 - Ifigeneia Giannopoulou, Greek songwriter (b. 1957)
Holidays and observances Roman Catholic Church - Feast of Saint John the Baptist, patron of farriers Original Midsummer's Eve in Finland and Sweden, although the official holiday is now moved to the nearest Friday One of the four Irish Quarter days in the Irish Calendar. Discovery Day in Newfoundland and Labrador (celebrating the 1497 discovery by John Cabot) Bannockburn Day in Scotland (see 1314 above) Quarter days in England
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Julie Aronson - Dec 30, 2004 12:19 pm (#2237 of 2923)
Oy!
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kj09 - Dec 30, 2004 12:23 pm (#2238 of 2923)
Double Oy!
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 12:31 pm (#2239 of 2923)
I know!!!!
The only thing i see that may be relevent is a small connection to Scotland. It is Bannockburn Day; 1314 - Battle of Bannockburn. Scottish forces led by Robert the Bruce beat Edward II of England. Scotland regains its independence.
There's nothing apart from that that I can tell.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 30, 2004 12:47 pm (#2240 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
We're sort of veering off topic here -- maybe this discussion should eventually wander somewhere else -- but JKR gives us very few specific dates. It's tempting to suspect that there's some pattern behind them.
Methinks I'll be spending some quality time with the Lex this weekend, rather than my honey, looking for specific dates JKR has cited.
And the nice thing is that my honey will be cheering me all the way. He may not be as big a Potterhead as I, but he's up there.
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Ann - Dec 30, 2004 1:10 pm (#2241 of 2923)
Midsummer's Eve seems more probable to me!
Midsummer's day is technically June 21st, though (the solstice). There is a big pagan solstice festival. One of the sources I looked at said that in the early Christian church it was replaced by St. John's Day on the 24th (sort of like Christmas, on December 25th, which replaced the winter solstice festival, Midwinter's Day, normally December 21st).
June 24th is apparently still much celebrated in England, at least in rural areas, but, you would expect the eve to be on the 23rd. Still, since JKR specifically mentions the date, it is likely that it's significant.
From All-Info about English Culture website:
In spite of this, Midsummer Day is normally celebrated on June 24th and many pagan customs that have their origin in sun worship are still practised on this day. For instance, bonfires are lit in memory of the Druid Baal fires, when children join hands and jump through the embers in an ancient celebration of plentiful crops. At one time farmers would also have driven their livestock through the dying flames, believing it would protect their animals from disease.
Several druidic fertility rites are still enacted during the Midsummer Eve or St. John's Eve celebrations, such as dropping melted lead into water, throwing a newly cut oak handle into a fire and planting hempseed in the local church grounds at midnight. Surprisingly, there are still a handful of rural English folk who will hang a black velvet cushion full of pins in the right foot of a stocking in expectation of glimpsing their future spouse. The ancestors of these people associated this night with fairies, ghosts and spirits of the past and would pick a garland of St. John's Wort at dawn and nail it to the front-door to protect their homes.
Midsummer Eve is also the time when the Federation of Old Cornwall Societies light bonfires across their county (one of England's most ancient), and children leap over the flames, in what is a very old purification rite. Sadly, the unusual custom of Rolling the Cartwheel down Mel Tor, by locals in the village of Leusdon, Devon, ceased sometime during the 1960s.
Midsummer Day has always been a day of great revelry. In the past, Cornish tin miners were given the day off and the people of Dartmoor, in Devon, would build platforms in trees in order to dance on them. There is also an old superstition that the devil will appear at midnight if a person runs backwards seven times around Chanctonbury Ring in Sussex. However, one of the most popular traditions - still maintained in parts of Derbyshire - is the art of well-dressing, whereby villagers spend many hours attractively decorating their local water wells.
I thought the bit about the devil appearing at midnight (last paragraph) was interesting.
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Elanor - Dec 30, 2004 1:37 pm (#2242 of 2923)
Very interesting indeed Ann! I think you're really onto something important here.
In France St John's day has the same kind of meaning. For ages, people danced around fires and jumped over them during that night. It was also the night during which people were picking "simples", medecinal plants, because it was a "magic" night.
There was also a tradition: to make wheels of fire making circles around fires, symbolizing the path of the Sun. Circles have always had magic meanings. And that night, in the graveyard, there were a lot of circles as well: Nagini circling Harry, the circle of the DE, the one in which Harry and Voldmort are bound.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 30, 2004 3:28 pm (#2243 of 2923)
Here is an interesting note about the date of July 16th.
On 16 July 1945 the members of the Manhattan Project team successfully detonated the first atomic bomb. The first atomic bomb test was aptly code named Trinity.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 30, 2004 6:32 pm (#2244 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Walpurgis Night is April 30th the eve of the May day celebration. It is exactly 6 months from Halloween Nite and is the old witch's celebration of springtime. Walpurgis Night is a translation of the German name. It refers to St. Walpurgis(also Walburga) a nun who helped introduce Christianity in Germany in the 700's. Even though the celebration carries her name is was totally by chance. She had nothing to do with witchcraft. The day just coincided the the celebration of the spring festival. The center of the German celebration was northern Germany around a famous mountain called the Brocken. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's classic "Faust" included a Walpurgis Night scene on the Brocken. It is also suggested that Durmstrang is located in this general area.
This information is from one of my christmas presents a book by David Colbert called "The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter".
Mikie
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Czarina II - Dec 31, 2004 3:40 pm (#2245 of 2923)
June 24th is Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day in Quebec (probably the same as St John Day, but alas). It's a bit of a nationalist celebration. I only know that there are lots of parades, since it's not a national holiday and I've never been there for it.
What does June 24th have to do with the sixth book, though? Did I miss something?
Happy New Year! Only seven and a half more months till HbP!
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Ann - Jan 1, 2005 8:03 pm (#2246 of 2923)
Cazrina: "What does June 24th have to do with the sixth book, though?"
Nothing--we're way off topic, but it was interesting, nonetheless.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jan 1, 2005 11:43 pm (#2247 of 2923)
On 16 July 1945 the members of the Manhattan Project team successfully detonated the first atomic bomb. The first atomic bomb test was aptly code named Trinity.
I wonder if the release date is symbolic because, J.K. Rowling is going to destroy many theories with the release of book six especially where the trio are concerned. Much like the atomic bomb has wrought much destruction.
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Czarina II - Jan 2, 2005 12:25 pm (#2248 of 2923)
I think it is being released on July 16 because that day is a Saturday (so the majority of fans won't have work) in the summer (no school). This is a time when a lot of people will be going on vacation or taking time off and will have more time to read than during other parts of the year. The sixteenth is mid-way through July, so the bulk of vacationers have not yet left for their trips; others have just come back, and there are no big holidays. Two weeks earlier and the bulk of Rowling's North American readers would be in the midst of national celebrations -- a bigger deal to Americans than Canadians, but still -- and if I remember correctly, the beginning of July is popular among other countries for special holidays. Not exactly the time to be releasing a book, as most people will be at family occasions or parades or carnivals, not at home reading. Or maybe the publishers want to have the book ready properly, making sure there are no flints and it is thoroughly edited. They need time -- they do need to organise artwork, covers, format, etc., plus the company has several books on the go.
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septentrion - Jan 2, 2005 12:36 pm (#2249 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I think they just chose a Saturday when they know everything will be ready, nothing more.
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Hollywand - Jan 2, 2005 12:57 pm (#2250 of 2923)
Gryffindor
July 16 could be a hilarious bit of synchronicity on Rowling's part:
If the event that takes Harry from 4 Privet is indeed his birthday party, the book will be released on July 16, and by July 31, all of us will be immersed in the Book Six, in effect, at Harry's 16th birthday party, so we will all be there, at least in our imagination. Wouldn't that be charming, spell-binding? ;0)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I only have just one problem with book 7 coming out too soon. What are we going to do when the series is over? It is one of those things that is both exciting and scary. We wait with anticipation then when we are done there is a certain sadness that it is over.
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Gerald Costales - Dec 27, 2004 9:55 am (#2202 of 2923)
I not sure any Wizard royalty exists presently in the UK. So, I'm inclined to think the Half-Blood Prince's title is from more likely a Muggle source. But there are always exceptions for instance, Dean Thomas' father could be a King or Prince of another Wizarding country that still has royalty. I've read some speculation that Dean's father was an African Prince.
Also, the Prince title could be a former claim to a throne. The heirs of the last Tsar, last Kaiser, last Shah of Iran, etc. could be restated to their thrones if offered that chance. Didn't the last King of Afghanistan return from exile in Italy to give his support to the new President of Afghanistan?
Royalty is fickle. The last Stuart to claim the throne of England was rejected, because he was Catholic, by Parliament and the throne was give to a distant royal relative in Hanover. This Hanoverian (German) became King George I of England. (George III his grandson was King during the American Revolution.)
I'm also inclined to think that the Prince title isn't literal. The "Weasley is our King!" taunt wasn't taken literally. And there is that possibility that the Half-Blood Prince is a person from the past. So, Godric Gryffindor or his son could be the Half-Blood Prince. ;-) GC
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scoop2172000 - Dec 27, 2004 10:10 am (#2203 of 2923)
Eliza: Jo has not closed the door on writing another book (or books) past the seventh Harry Potter novel. She said so in an interview (which one I can't recall: help me out here, gang.)
Perhaps she has something in mind already, but she won't say so until the 7th book comes out, because to say something early could ruin the biggest cliffhanger of the series: will Harry survive.
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KTO - Dec 27, 2004 10:17 am (#2204 of 2923)
my prediction is that book seven is going to come out in Dec of 05, I think it is done, KT
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Veritaserum - Dec 27, 2004 10:59 am (#2205 of 2923)
Go Jays!
yeah, I still am not comfortable with the whole idea of wizarding royalty. It just seems too late in the game to be randomly throwing in something so important. And we know Jo doesn't just randomly throw anything in. So I guess I'm leaning toward a non-literal title, but I still can't fathom what a half blood prince has to do with the direction the books are headed in and with VWII.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 27, 2004 3:40 pm (#2206 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I have to agree that the HBP will probably not be royalty. It just makes sense that he will be a champion of half-bloods and not a real prince. I too believe that it is getting kinda late to bring in a new character not introduced before. The new DADA teacher will probably be an exception as each of them have been new characters. I agree with Veritaserum about the idea of wizarding royalty. JKR has spent 5 entire books showing us that blood doen't matter and to now bring in a member of wizarding royalty seems against her grain.
Mikie
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vball man - Dec 27, 2004 4:33 pm (#2207 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I'm not comfortable with wizarding royalty, either. I prefer the usage of "prince" that Dumbledore used in OoP:
you arrived at Hogwarts, neither as happy nor as well-nourished as I would have liked, perhaps, yet alive and healthy You were not a pampered little prince, but as normal a boy as I could have hoped under the circumstances
(The only other time the word "prince" occurs in the series is a reference to an african prince at the preparations for the Q World Cup.)
So I think that DD was the "pampered prince." DD has tried to keep Harry from being "pampered." But Harry is still sort of a prince in that he will probably take over Dumbledore's "rule."
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Steve Newton - Dec 27, 2004 4:58 pm (#2208 of 2923)
Librarian
The only 'royalty' that we know of is Lord Voldemort. A self given title. Perhaps this Prince is also self titled, the leader of the resistance to Lord V. Not Harry, of course.
Edited for a very slight increase in intelligence.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 27, 2004 7:42 pm (#2209 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
I've just spent an entirely unprofitable afternoon poring over all the giant stuff in OotP -- I was just sure that there was some kind of royal reference there other than the Gurg that could make either Hagrid or Grawp (my personal vote) the HBP. No such luck.
WHAM!
There goes another of my theories ...
Saralinda/Kayte
Consistently guessing wrong about Harry Potter since 2002."
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Ydnam96 - Dec 27, 2004 8:40 pm (#2210 of 2923)
Saralinda, I admire your dedication to correctness. It is not important that you might have some incorrect assumptions, what matters is that you care enough to research them.
Don't be so hard on yourself! I think that it's perfectly natural to assume there was a reference to royalty in the Giant section, I think that we think along those lines when we think of a heirarchy of society. It's natural to assume that a tribal leader would be seen as a form of royalty. Even if they are never spoken of that way. It was a perfectly legitamate theory. (I personally think most theories are viable until the books directly refute them)
Now we can continue the debate...who is the HBP?
My thoughts are that he is someone we've only heard about tangently (ie someone who is dead, like Godric. My personal theory is that he is the person JK let us get a "glimspe" of a few months ago.) He may or may not be "real" royalty, but a champion as was suggested in posts above for the muggle born wizards. Guess we'll see.
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vball man - Dec 27, 2004 10:20 pm (#2211 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Yeah, Saralinda, at least you're guessing! Really, I'd say that "Gurg" is used as a kind of king.
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Her-melanie - Dec 28, 2004 8:09 am (#2212 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I can't remember where this is in the books, and I don't have them with me to pore over them, but at some point Harry reads a book that calls magic "nature's royalty." If we look at the title of "Half-Blood Prince" from that perspective, it could indicate a kind of culmination of magic in one person. Sort of, someone that has a higher concentration of magic naturally in him, and has been "chosen" by magic itself as a sort of heir, or inherit-er. I'm explaining this badly, I know. So far, none of the titles has been figurative in any way; if it says Prisoner, that's what it means literally. This time, I wonder...
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scoop2172000 - Dec 28, 2004 8:40 am (#2213 of 2923)
Nature's Royalty was the name of a book at 12 Grimauld Place, which Harry and the Weasleys came across while cleaning the house.
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Elanor - Dec 28, 2004 1:55 pm (#2214 of 2923)
A lot of theories are very interesting and give food for thought, but I agree with Gerald, I think that the HBP comes from the past and that it is Godric Gryffindor.
There are several clues that connect him to nobility at least, if not royalty, and maybe to a half-blood lineage:
- his crest, whose likeness with the English medieval kings is disturbing, which crest comes from the Norman Dukedom one.
- his name: Gryffindor, griffin d'or, the golden griffin. Its French root (d'or) could be a connection to the Norman Dukedom as well.
- his sword: a rich muggle weapon, and not any weapon, a symbol of power and a powerful weapon as well.
Besides, the entire story and actual war in the WW comes from the first fight between Slytherin and the 3 other founders, especially Gryffindor. Through the chamber of secrets, Slytherin has helped his "heir" to put his ideas forward. Gryffindor, through his hat (the Sorting Hat) has already given his sword to Harry when needed. He may have left something else for helping his "heirs" (spiritual or real) in a war he knew was to come one day. This legacy, whatever it is (knowledge, magic item...) could well be what DD's side, and especially Harry, will discover and use in the HBP.
EDIT: there is another clue I have just remembered: the "griffin" part in Gryffindor's name. "Like sphinxes, griffins are often employed by wizards to guard treasure." And it is JKR herself who says so, in FB (p.20)... So, our Gryffin(dor) should well "keep an ace in his sleeve" as we say here, wainting to be found...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 28, 2004 9:23 pm (#2215 of 2923)
My guess is book seven will come out in 07. After all, seven is a magical number!
The Lion is the King of the Beasts. We have a description of a lion like character. I think the Half-Blood Prince is connected to Gryffindor and is half Muggle. LPO
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Nicole Bloom - Dec 28, 2004 9:31 pm (#2216 of 2923)
I just noticed something on JK's website, if this has already been mentioned then please allow your attention to wander freely, if it belongs on a different thread then please feel free to move it.
On the extras page, before all the stuff moves in the way, there is a piece of paper which mentions the sorting hat. It also has the word "Gryffindor" and "HP". Both are circled and there is a line that connects the two.
Is this a clue that there is more of a connection between Godric Gryffindor and Harry other than Gryffindor is the house Harry belongs to? The second that I saw it, I immediately thought of Harry as Gryffindor's heir and when I saw the part about the sorting hat on the same page, it did not change my thinking.
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Eliza - Dec 28, 2004 11:06 pm (#2217 of 2923)
From what I can tell from what is written on that page, I believe that is the part of the sorting hat's song that will refer to Gryffindor in the HBP. Remember that the hat's song is new each year. I think that it is meant as a little treat for us but I do not believe that big of a bit of info away that easy. This is what I could figure out.
Hogwarts
Sorting Hat Description
You might be in Gryffindor. In these dwell the____ __ _____. These daring __________ and _________ set Gryffindor apart.
Feel free to add any more that you can make out.
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James Greenfield - Dec 29, 2004 12:23 am (#2218 of 2923)
Eliza:
From the pattern of the words, it could be that the blanks are filled with "brave of heart" "wizards" and "witches".
(I can't get anything but the text version, so I'm just guessing.)
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Gerald Costales - Dec 29, 2004 7:22 am (#2219 of 2923)
"Through the chamber of secrets, Slytherin has helped his "heir" to put his ideas forward. Gryffindor, through his hat (the Sorting Hat) has already given his sword to Harry when needed. He may have left something else for helping his "heirs" (spiritual or real) in a war he knew was to come one day. This legacy, whatever it is (knowledge, magic item...) could well be what DD's side, and especially Harry, will discover and use in the HBP." Elanor
The Chamber contained the Basilisk and it was in part defeated by Fawkes. Fawkes pecked out the Basilisk's eyes so Harry could kill the Basilisk with Gryffindor's sword.
I believe part of Gryffindor's legacy is Fawkes. I believe Fawkes was Godric's pet Phoenix and now is Dumbledore's pet. Back to the Chamber, Fawkes' tears is an antidote to the Basilisk's poison. And Fawkes' Phoenix song inspired Harry in the Graveyard, etc. And finally, the core of Harry's wand is a tail feather from Fawkes.
Fawkes' feather is also the core of Voldermort's wand. But why Voldermort and Harry both share that core and have Brother wands is still a mystery. Voldermort received his wand when he was Tom Riddle and before the Chamber was opened. Voldermort used his wand on the infant Harry. That initial use of Voldermort's wand on Harry resulted in a rebounded spell and left Harry's "lightning bolt" scar. The second time Voldermort's wand was used on Harry, both Voldermort's and Harry's wands locked becaused of that shared wand core.
Me thinks there is more to Fawkes then meets the eye, whether Fawkes' was previously owned by Godric or not. ;-) GC
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Ann - Dec 29, 2004 7:29 am (#2220 of 2923)
The page with Gryffindor and the HP (each in a circle) attached by a line has been much discussed. There are two versions, one on the left side of the Extra Stuff page and the other, inverted, on the upper left corner of the Desktop page. Both contain the Gryffindor verse of the Sorting Hat's song from PS/SS.
Two weird things I just noticed, however: First, the pages aren't the same, as one would expect if they are just a random page that the site-makers have scattered around the site (like so many others). The one on the Extra Stuff page has only "Hogwarts" at the top, whereas the one on the Desktop page has (I think) "Houses of Hogwarts." Then both say "Sorting Hat Description," but the lines below (from the song) are broken differently. In both, the verse ends with a horizontal line, but on the Desktop version, this is followed by two more verses, the first of which is Hufflepuff. The Extra Stuff page seems to be blank below the line.
The second weird thing is that above the circled "Gryffindor" at left is a very smeared word that seems to begin with H followed by four or five letters, then a capital B or P, then more letters. I thought maybe "Half Blood Prince" (though it is a little long, and I couldn't see the capital P of Prince) or "Harry Potter" (but that's too short, the first word has a tall sign in it that doesn't fit, and the HP below would make it redundant). What it actually looks like to me is something like "Holy Plippfes," but that can't be right.
Anyone else want to try? (I suppose this belongs on the web site thread, but if it does say Half Blood Prince it would be relevant here. I realize that this page seems to relate to Book 1 of course, but if the HBP was originally important in Book 2, she might have made such a note while writing Book 1.)
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kj09 - Dec 29, 2004 7:50 am (#2221 of 2923)
Gerald Costales-Where does it say that the phoenix feather in the wands was that of Fawkes? All I found was that it said "the phoenix" not anyone impeticular. This is from the first book, I don't remember it being discussed in another, but I could be wrong.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Dec 29, 2004 8:28 am (#2222 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Exactly," said Dumbledore. "Harry's wand and Voldemorts wand share cores. Each of them contains a feather from the tail of the same phoenix. This phoenix, in fact," he added, and he pointed at the scarlet-and-gold bird, perching peacefully on Harry's knee. "My wand's feather came from Fawkes?" Harry said, amazed. "Yes," said Dumbledore. "Mr. Ollivander wrote to tell me you had bought the second wand, the moment you left his shop four years ago." GOF Chap 36
Edited: Mistyped chapter number.
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 29, 2004 8:34 am (#2223 of 2923)
-Where does it say that the phoenix feather in the wands was that of Fawkes? In GOF chapter 36 pg 697.Dumdledore said;"Harry's wand and Voldemort's wand share cores.Each of them contains a feather from the tail of the same phoenix.This phoenix, in fact,"he added,and he pointed at the scarlet-and-gold bird,perching peacefully on Harry's knee.
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Madame Pomfrey - Dec 29, 2004 8:35 am (#2224 of 2923)
Sorry TBE cross posted.
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kj09 - Dec 29, 2004 9:31 am (#2225 of 2923)
Oh, I guess I forgot about that. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Ya know, I hadn't read any of these books until the latter end of last year. In a way I'm kind of glad, only because I can't stand waiting for the new book to release. I can't imagine what it would've been like to wait for the last 4 books. I actually started with the third through the fifth, then went back to read the second and am now reading the first finally. This probably sounds crazy, but that's just the way it ended up. By the sound of things I think I need to reread the whole set.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 29, 2004 10:24 am (#2226 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
[Wow, kj09, I envy you! The first readings are such an amazing adventure! Congratulations on "catching the fever" and welcome to this happy goofy band. Don't be surprised if you still feel the same excitement on the twentieth reading.]
On topic:
Fawkes is certainly becoming a more and more critical story point, isn't he?
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Amilia Smith - Dec 30, 2004 12:54 am (#2227 of 2923)
As I am actually all caught up on my threads, I was reading through some old JKR interviews over on Quick Quotes. This is from "The Connection" (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999.
"I’ve got to write what I want to write. If by Book 6, I’m only writing to 6 people and I’ve lost everyone else, yeah, I’m going to be sorry about that, but I will feel that I have to stand by what I want to do."
Just thought I'd share a little chuckle with all "five" of my fellow fans as we sit here at the Lexicon waiting for Book 6. :-)
Mills.
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Eponine - Dec 30, 2004 8:03 am (#2228 of 2923)
Yeah, there won't be many of us left here at the Lexicon. =)
I'm quite excited about HBP (who wouldn't be?), but I'm not very good at making predictions so I'm not really going to try. I don't the the Half Blood Prince is an established character. I think we may have heard the name before, but that's about it. I also tend to think that he's an historical character as well.
Counting down the days...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 30, 2004 9:06 am (#2229 of 2923)
Amelia Smith you made my day! What a great quote to share. The "six" are pretty darn wealthy to pre-order enough copies of HBP to but it as the #1 selling book. Eponine I visit Leaky every day (OK several times a day) to see their countdown. It is great! Days, Hours, Minutes and Seconds...... Its under 200 now.
I posted this thought on the Fawkes thread, he is the only Phoenix character we know. There are several connections with him, Voldemort, DD, Harry and Godric. I am certain he will be very important in the final battle. I think the name Order of the Phoenix is very significant. LPO
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kj09 - Dec 30, 2004 9:20 am (#2230 of 2923)
Did anyone remember that the Death Eaters were once called "The Knights of Walpurgis"? I wonder if they have anything to do with the HBP? A reference to the name Walpurgis is a woman born in Europe in the year 710, said to be the daughter of King Richard. Supposedly settled in Brittain and later became a Saint.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 10:42 am (#2231 of 2923)
That is very interesting kj09! Where did you get all that from? I'm fasinated by the connections JKR has made with ancient UK culture.
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kj09 - Dec 30, 2004 10:53 am (#2232 of 2923)
Finally someone replied :-) It is from an interwiew with the BBC from last year. I'll copy the transcript:
JKR: This must not be seen too closely. This is the plan for Order of the Phoenix. I have these grid things for every book - well I have about 12 grid things for every book. It's just a way of reminding myself what has to happen in each chapter to advance us in the plot. And then you have all your sub-plots. It's just a way of keeping track of what going on.
JP: And these scraps of paper which you've filed elegantly in a carrier, they're plot ideas or...
JKR: Well some of them are totally redundant now because its been written and I keep them out of sentimentality's sake, I suppose. But some of it has backstory in it like this - in here is the history of the Death Eaters and I don't know that I'll ever actually need it - but at some point - which were once called something different - they were called the Knights of Walpurgis. I don't know if I'll need it. But I like knowing it. I like to keep that sort of stuff on hand.
When I hear the term Knights, I just think of royalty right away. Then I did a search for the Walpurgis and got a ton of stuff on it. It's actually a celebrated holiday. I really thought this would create a bigger stir.
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 10:59 am (#2233 of 2923)
OOoooooooo! makes them sound a bit less naughty though doen't it, calling them Knights!?
Maybe we should keep an eye out for this "holiday" it might have some significance in one of the following books?
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Veritaserum - Dec 30, 2004 11:40 am (#2234 of 2923)
Go Jays!
It's interesting that they were called the Knights when Order is generally construed (at least in this context) to be an order of knight-ish people.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 30, 2004 11:59 am (#2235 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
And, for those who haven't Googled it yet, Walpurgisnacht is the night of April 30-May 1.
Hmm, I wonder if that date will have any significance in HBP or book 7 -- or maybe even involving on of the books -- like art coming out, or a teaser quote. I mean, she has already acknowledged the solstices [winter solstice, release of HBP's availability date; summer solstice, actual release of OotP].
Rats, I don't have the books handy. What was the date of Task Three in GoF? Did Voldie time his revival for Walpurgis Night?
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 12:05 pm (#2236 of 2923)
The third task took place on June 24th (GOF Chpt.26 p.440 UK HB)
As far as i know there isn't anything special about June 24th but i'm off to Google it!
Edit: ok so on June 24th the following happened;
1100-1899 1128 - Battle of St.Mamede, near Guimarães. Portuguese forces led by Afonso I beat his mother D.Teresa and D.Fernão Peres de Trava. After this battle, the future king calls himself "Prince of Portugal", the first step towards independence in 1143. 1314 - Battle of Bannockburn. Scottish forces led by Robert the Bruce beat Edward II of England. Scotland regains its independence. 1374 - A sudden outbreak of St. John's Dance causes people in the streets of Aix-la-Chapelle, Prussia, to experience hallucinations and begin to jump and twitch uncontrollably until they collapse from exhaustion. 1441 - Eton College founded. 1497 - John Cabot lands on North America, either at Newfoundland or Cape Breton; first European discovery of the region since the Vikings. 1497 - Cornish traitors Michael An Gof and Thomas Flamank executed at Tyburn, London 1509 - Henry VIII crowned King of England. 1534 - Jacques Cartier makes the European discovery of Prince Edward Island. 1535 - The Anabaptist state of Münster is conquered and disbanded. 1597 - The first Dutch voyage to the East Indies reaches Bantam (on Java). 1662 - Dutch attempt but fail to capture Macao. 1664 - The colony of New Jersey is founded. 1692 - Kingston, Jamaica founded. 1793 - First republican constitution in France adopted. 1812 - Napoleonic Wars: Napoleon's invasion of Russia begins. 1859 - Battle of Solferino (Battle of the Three Sovereigns). Sardinia and France defeat Austria in northern Italy. 1861 - Tennessee becomes the 11th and last state to secede from the US. 1880 - First performance of O Canada, the song that would become the national anthem of Canada, at the Congrès national des Canadiens-Français. 1894 - The IOC decides to hold the Olympic Games every four years.
1900-1999 1901 - First exhibition of Pablo Picasso's work opens. 1910 - Japan invades Korea. 1913 - Greece and Serbia annul their alliance with Bulgaria. 1915 - The steamer Eastland capsizes in Chicago. 800 people die. 1916 - Mary Pickford becomes first film star to get million dollar contract. 1918 - First airmail service in Canada from Montreal to Toronto. 1918 - The giant cannon Big Bertha begins bombardments on Paris 1932 - A military coup ends the absolute power of the king of Siam (Thailand). 1940 - France and Italy sign an armistice. 1941 - The Germans capture Vilna, Brest-Litovsk, and Kaunas. 1945 - The U.S.S.R. capture the Free Republic of Schwarzenberg. 1946 - Georges Bidault becomes Prime Minister of France 1947 - First known sighting of UFOs: Kenneth Arnold, flying over Washington, notices nine luminous disks in the form of saucers. 1948 - Start of the Berlin Blockade. The Soviet Union makes overland travel between the West with West Berlin impossible. 1957 - The U.S. Supreme Court rules that obsecnity is not protected by the First Amendment. 1963 - Zanzibar is granted internal self-government by the UK. 1974 - The UPC label is used for the first time to ring up purchases at a supermarket. 1975 - An Eastern Airlines Boeing 727 crashes at John F. Kennedy Airport, New York. 113 people die. 1983 - Sally Ride, first female American astronaut, returns to earth. 1983 - Yasir Arafat banned from Damascus. 1993 - Yale computer science professor Dr. David Gelernter loses the sight in one eye, the hearing in one ear, and part of his right hand after receiving a mailbomb from the Unabomber. 1996 - Michael Johnson breaks the world record in the 400 metres with a time of 19.66 seconds 1999 - The guitar which Eric Clapton recorded Layla is sold at auction for the astounding price of $497,500.
Births
1700-1899 1777 - John Ross, naval officer and explorer (d. 1856) 1795 - Ernst Heinrich Weber, anatomist and physiologist (d. 1878) 1803 - George James Webb, composer 1842 - Ambrose Bierce, author (d. 1914, speculative) 1850 - Horatio Kitchener, 1st Earl Kitchener of Khartoum, original Order of Merit member (d. 1916) 1882 - Carl Diem, sports scientist (d. 1962) 1883 - Victor Franz Hess, American physicist 1888 - Gerrit Rietveld, Dutch architect (d. 1964) 1895 - Jack Dempsey, boxer (d. 1983)
1900-1999 1901 - Harry Partch, microtonal composer (d. 1974) 1906 - Pierre Fournier, French cellist (d. 1986) 1909 - David Rose, composer, musician (d. 1990) 1911 - Juan Manuel Fangio, Argentinian race car driver (d. 1995) 1915 - Fred Hoyle, cosmologist, science fiction author (d. 2001) 1922 - Tata Giacobetti, Italian singer and lyricist (Quartetto Cetra) 1928 - Wolfgang Altenburg, German general 1930 - Claude Chabrol, film director 1931 - Billy Casper, professional golfer 1942 - Mick Fleetwood, blues/pop/rock musician (Fleetwood Mac) 1942 - Michele Lee, actress 1944 - Jeff Beck, rock guitarist ("Yardbirds") 1944 - Chris Wood, rock musician 1945 - Colin Blunstone, rock musician ("The Zombies") 1945 - George Pataki, Governor of New York 1946 - Ellison Onizuka, astronaut (d. 1986) 1953 - Garry Shider, musician (P Funk) 1960 - Trisha Meili, author of I Am the Central Park Jogger 1967 - Richard Kruspe-Bernstein, lead guitarist for Rammstein 1969 - Sissel Kyrkjebø, Norwegian singer 1970 - Glenn Medeiros, Hawaiian singer-songwriter 1985 - Matthew Dezendorf, Programmer, actor, and composer 1986 - Solange Knowles, actress, singer
Deaths
0-1499 1439 - Frederick IV of Austria - Regent of Tyrol and Further Austria
1500-1899 1519 - Lucrezia Borgia, duchess of Ferrara (b. 1480) 1604 - Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, hereditary Lord Great Chamberlain of England
1900-1999 1908 - Grover Cleveland, former president of the USA (heart failure) 1922 - Walther Rathenau, minister of Foreign Affairs for the Weimar Republic (b. 1867, assassinated) 1947 - Emil Seidel, politician, mayor of Milwaukee, Socialist vice-presidential candidate 1953 - George Herbert Walker, grandfather to President George H. W. Bush 1987 - Jackie Gleason, actor, musician 1993 - Archie Williams, American athlete
2000-2099 2000 - Vera Atkins, Special Operations Executive intelligence officer 2002 - Pierre Werner, former Prime Minister of Luxembourg, "father of the euro" 2003 - Maynard Jackson, former mayor of Atlanta, Georgia 2003 - Leon Uris, author 2004 - Ifigeneia Giannopoulou, Greek songwriter (b. 1957)
Holidays and observances Roman Catholic Church - Feast of Saint John the Baptist, patron of farriers Original Midsummer's Eve in Finland and Sweden, although the official holiday is now moved to the nearest Friday One of the four Irish Quarter days in the Irish Calendar. Discovery Day in Newfoundland and Labrador (celebrating the 1497 discovery by John Cabot) Bannockburn Day in Scotland (see 1314 above) Quarter days in England
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Julie Aronson - Dec 30, 2004 12:19 pm (#2237 of 2923)
Oy!
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kj09 - Dec 30, 2004 12:23 pm (#2238 of 2923)
Double Oy!
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Ainsley Black - Dec 30, 2004 12:31 pm (#2239 of 2923)
I know!!!!
The only thing i see that may be relevent is a small connection to Scotland. It is Bannockburn Day; 1314 - Battle of Bannockburn. Scottish forces led by Robert the Bruce beat Edward II of England. Scotland regains its independence.
There's nothing apart from that that I can tell.
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Saralinda Again - Dec 30, 2004 12:47 pm (#2240 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
We're sort of veering off topic here -- maybe this discussion should eventually wander somewhere else -- but JKR gives us very few specific dates. It's tempting to suspect that there's some pattern behind them.
Methinks I'll be spending some quality time with the Lex this weekend, rather than my honey, looking for specific dates JKR has cited.
And the nice thing is that my honey will be cheering me all the way. He may not be as big a Potterhead as I, but he's up there.
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Ann - Dec 30, 2004 1:10 pm (#2241 of 2923)
Midsummer's Eve seems more probable to me!
Midsummer's day is technically June 21st, though (the solstice). There is a big pagan solstice festival. One of the sources I looked at said that in the early Christian church it was replaced by St. John's Day on the 24th (sort of like Christmas, on December 25th, which replaced the winter solstice festival, Midwinter's Day, normally December 21st).
June 24th is apparently still much celebrated in England, at least in rural areas, but, you would expect the eve to be on the 23rd. Still, since JKR specifically mentions the date, it is likely that it's significant.
From All-Info about English Culture website:
In spite of this, Midsummer Day is normally celebrated on June 24th and many pagan customs that have their origin in sun worship are still practised on this day. For instance, bonfires are lit in memory of the Druid Baal fires, when children join hands and jump through the embers in an ancient celebration of plentiful crops. At one time farmers would also have driven their livestock through the dying flames, believing it would protect their animals from disease.
Several druidic fertility rites are still enacted during the Midsummer Eve or St. John's Eve celebrations, such as dropping melted lead into water, throwing a newly cut oak handle into a fire and planting hempseed in the local church grounds at midnight. Surprisingly, there are still a handful of rural English folk who will hang a black velvet cushion full of pins in the right foot of a stocking in expectation of glimpsing their future spouse. The ancestors of these people associated this night with fairies, ghosts and spirits of the past and would pick a garland of St. John's Wort at dawn and nail it to the front-door to protect their homes.
Midsummer Eve is also the time when the Federation of Old Cornwall Societies light bonfires across their county (one of England's most ancient), and children leap over the flames, in what is a very old purification rite. Sadly, the unusual custom of Rolling the Cartwheel down Mel Tor, by locals in the village of Leusdon, Devon, ceased sometime during the 1960s.
Midsummer Day has always been a day of great revelry. In the past, Cornish tin miners were given the day off and the people of Dartmoor, in Devon, would build platforms in trees in order to dance on them. There is also an old superstition that the devil will appear at midnight if a person runs backwards seven times around Chanctonbury Ring in Sussex. However, one of the most popular traditions - still maintained in parts of Derbyshire - is the art of well-dressing, whereby villagers spend many hours attractively decorating their local water wells.
I thought the bit about the devil appearing at midnight (last paragraph) was interesting.
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Elanor - Dec 30, 2004 1:37 pm (#2242 of 2923)
Very interesting indeed Ann! I think you're really onto something important here.
In France St John's day has the same kind of meaning. For ages, people danced around fires and jumped over them during that night. It was also the night during which people were picking "simples", medecinal plants, because it was a "magic" night.
There was also a tradition: to make wheels of fire making circles around fires, symbolizing the path of the Sun. Circles have always had magic meanings. And that night, in the graveyard, there were a lot of circles as well: Nagini circling Harry, the circle of the DE, the one in which Harry and Voldmort are bound.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Dec 30, 2004 3:28 pm (#2243 of 2923)
Here is an interesting note about the date of July 16th.
On 16 July 1945 the members of the Manhattan Project team successfully detonated the first atomic bomb. The first atomic bomb test was aptly code named Trinity.
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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 30, 2004 6:32 pm (#2244 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Walpurgis Night is April 30th the eve of the May day celebration. It is exactly 6 months from Halloween Nite and is the old witch's celebration of springtime. Walpurgis Night is a translation of the German name. It refers to St. Walpurgis(also Walburga) a nun who helped introduce Christianity in Germany in the 700's. Even though the celebration carries her name is was totally by chance. She had nothing to do with witchcraft. The day just coincided the the celebration of the spring festival. The center of the German celebration was northern Germany around a famous mountain called the Brocken. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's classic "Faust" included a Walpurgis Night scene on the Brocken. It is also suggested that Durmstrang is located in this general area.
This information is from one of my christmas presents a book by David Colbert called "The Magical Worlds of Harry Potter".
Mikie
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Czarina II - Dec 31, 2004 3:40 pm (#2245 of 2923)
June 24th is Saint-Jean-Baptiste Day in Quebec (probably the same as St John Day, but alas). It's a bit of a nationalist celebration. I only know that there are lots of parades, since it's not a national holiday and I've never been there for it.
What does June 24th have to do with the sixth book, though? Did I miss something?
Happy New Year! Only seven and a half more months till HbP!
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Ann - Jan 1, 2005 8:03 pm (#2246 of 2923)
Cazrina: "What does June 24th have to do with the sixth book, though?"
Nothing--we're way off topic, but it was interesting, nonetheless.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jan 1, 2005 11:43 pm (#2247 of 2923)
On 16 July 1945 the members of the Manhattan Project team successfully detonated the first atomic bomb. The first atomic bomb test was aptly code named Trinity.
I wonder if the release date is symbolic because, J.K. Rowling is going to destroy many theories with the release of book six especially where the trio are concerned. Much like the atomic bomb has wrought much destruction.
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Czarina II - Jan 2, 2005 12:25 pm (#2248 of 2923)
I think it is being released on July 16 because that day is a Saturday (so the majority of fans won't have work) in the summer (no school). This is a time when a lot of people will be going on vacation or taking time off and will have more time to read than during other parts of the year. The sixteenth is mid-way through July, so the bulk of vacationers have not yet left for their trips; others have just come back, and there are no big holidays. Two weeks earlier and the bulk of Rowling's North American readers would be in the midst of national celebrations -- a bigger deal to Americans than Canadians, but still -- and if I remember correctly, the beginning of July is popular among other countries for special holidays. Not exactly the time to be releasing a book, as most people will be at family occasions or parades or carnivals, not at home reading. Or maybe the publishers want to have the book ready properly, making sure there are no flints and it is thoroughly edited. They need time -- they do need to organise artwork, covers, format, etc., plus the company has several books on the go.
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septentrion - Jan 2, 2005 12:36 pm (#2249 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I think they just chose a Saturday when they know everything will be ready, nothing more.
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Hollywand - Jan 2, 2005 12:57 pm (#2250 of 2923)
Gryffindor
July 16 could be a hilarious bit of synchronicity on Rowling's part:
If the event that takes Harry from 4 Privet is indeed his birthday party, the book will be released on July 16, and by July 31, all of us will be immersed in the Book Six, in effect, at Harry's 16th birthday party, so we will all be there, at least in our imagination. Wouldn't that be charming, spell-binding? ;0)
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2251 to 2300)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:51 am
Ainsley Black - Jan 2, 2005 1:08 pm (#2251 of 2923)
By July 17th i'll have finished it and will probably be re-reading it by July 31st!
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KWeldon - Jan 2, 2005 1:46 pm (#2252 of 2923)
By July 17th i'll have finished it and will probably be re-reading it by July 31st!
Me, too, but I wonder if Hollywand meant that we will be immersed in dissecting it and discussing it with each other.
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Hollywand - Jan 2, 2005 1:50 pm (#2253 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Exactly, Kurt. Never tickle a sleeping dragon, I say. And never try to hold a birthday party for one because they'll set the whole cake ablaze!
Siriusly, on her website, she mentions the release date along with a sly reference to a birthday gift. It could be a clue in hiding.
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Nicole Bloom - Jan 2, 2005 7:12 pm (#2254 of 2923)
The beginning of July is a big holiday time for Canadians as well, Canada Day which is Canada's Birthday is July 1st. As I am Canadian I thought I'd throw that in.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 2, 2005 7:39 pm (#2255 of 2923)
I'm looking forward to starting at midnight and reading through the night. I love the thought of millions around the world all enjoying the same book at the same time. I imagine the forum will be quiet for a few hours then absolutely explode with activity. I'm a newby here, I joined summer of 04. LPO
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Marie E. - Jan 2, 2005 10:50 pm (#2256 of 2923)
Last time we shut down the entire forum to new comments for the whole weekend to give everyone a sporting chance at reading it without spoilers. After that you were reading the forum at your own risk, so to speak. I remember I was reading the chapter The Noble House of Black and I had a desperate urge to talk to someone about it.
I'll be going to Denver this time and probably reading in the car all the way home.
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The giant squid - Jan 3, 2005 2:28 am (#2257 of 2923)
Marie, you & I will probably be boring half the family to tears at the reunion this summer blabbling about HBP. That, or we'll draw out all the closet Potties.
--Mike
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Saralinda Again - Jan 3, 2005 9:25 am (#2258 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
I posted this in "shortest stay on Privet Drive," but it fits here, too.
What if the release date of July 16 was chosen not only becaue it's Saturday, but because Harry leaves 4PD on July 16th?
Imagine all of us reading chapter one or two early on July 16 and that's the day the action takes place, too!
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Her-melanie - Jan 3, 2005 10:34 am (#2259 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Ann, I thought your post about the old traditions related to Midsummer's Eve was very interesting, especially "dropping melted lead into water, throwing a newly cut oak handle into a fire and planting hempseed in the local church grounds at midnight." That reminds me very much of Voldy's rebirthing: the lead being Wormtail's new hand, and the church grounds/ graveyard where everything happened.
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mike miller - Jan 3, 2005 2:44 pm (#2260 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I really haven't given any thought to what I will do about the Forum while I'm reading HBP. I tend to be a slow reader (I blame it on the fact that I never learned to crawl) and will have to be very wary of spoilers.
I rather like the idea of having a "black-out week" to give everyone a chance; perhaps with the addition of an "I've Finished Reading" thread to keep HBP info from leaking into the other threads too quickly. This would let you speed readers talk all you like and let the rest of us catch up. Just a thought...
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Her-melanie - Jan 3, 2005 3:34 pm (#2261 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Maybe I'm just being stupid, but when JKR said on her site that she hoped it (HBP release) would be a good birthday present to "Delleve who posts on the Leaky Cauldron," what was she talking about? Does the Leaky Cauldron have its own forum? Did she mean this forum? I searched for a "Delleve" and couldn't find one here. I am confused about it, but I am afraid that I am being quite dumb.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 3, 2005 3:49 pm (#2262 of 2923)
Hi All! Happy New Year and Happy Birthday Me!!
Did anyone else think about July being the seventh month and as the 16th is the first day of the second half of the month (depending on how you look at it) it is actually at the beginning of when 'the seventh month dies'? Maybe the significance is yet to be found, or maybe it's JK being responsible and releasing the book at the end of term for UK schoolchildren.
BTW, I add my vote to the 'black out week'. Mike; great idea about the 'Finished Reading' thread.
Aurora xx
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Eponine - Jan 3, 2005 3:50 pm (#2263 of 2923)
The Leaky Cauldron does not have it's own forum, but it does have comments on stories. I believe JKR was reading the comments.
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Ainsley Black - Jan 3, 2005 3:55 pm (#2264 of 2923)
I would add my vote to having a black-out, great idea!!!
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KWeldon - Jan 3, 2005 4:48 pm (#2265 of 2923)
I'm adding my vote to having a blackout, too. It will be too tempting to check on here for discussion about something in the earlier chapters...
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Amilia Smith - Jan 3, 2005 5:20 pm (#2266 of 2923)
Hre-melanie, and any one else who is interested: here is what Leaky had to say about Jo mentioning Delleve's birthday (and what Delleve had to say, too.) Just scroll down a bit.
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Mills.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 3, 2005 5:27 pm (#2267 of 2923)
I like the idea of a separate thread for people who have finished the book. I am sure there are things I'm going to want to share with people and no one I know will be done with it as fast as I am. The "read at your own risk" makes sense to me. LPO
EDIT: Marie E I hope you won't be driving! I'll stay off I25. When you are in Denver I'll be happly reading in Longmont. LPO
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 3, 2005 9:10 pm (#2268 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
5 days? A week? And no one to talk to? Oh my! And what am I supposed to do with 5 days? I can read OoP in 24 hours, reflect and reread in another 24, and what do I do with the next 5 days?
Blackout sounds good, but can we change the timetable?
Edit: Read at own risk I can handle. After all, if those who have a hard time resisting temptation avoided flipping to last chapter imagine what heights they can hit?
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 4, 2005 12:11 am (#2269 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
TBE, Like you I could do with a black out, but not for long (I read way too fast!), I like the idea of a read at own risk comments thread that can be archived after the blackout finishes.
I am toying with the idea of taking the train to Sydney on the Friday and buying HBP at my favourite bookshop on the Saturday morning and taking the train home on the Sunday.
This time 'round I want to do something special to get the book, and support my favourite bookshop.
Lizzy
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 4, 2005 2:07 am (#2270 of 2923)
All you speed readers out there; How about re-reading to see what you missed/had forgotten from the first time around? You'll still be ahead of the rest of us!
Aurora xx
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 4, 2005 3:23 am (#2271 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Thats what the train trip is for; the re-read! By the time I get on the train the next morning I'll have already finished it! Eight-to-Nine hours in a train goes pretty fast if you are reading as I discovered last time I took the train. The Ian Rankin novels I wanted to savour slowly over a week were all finished by the time I got home. Rats!!
I envy those who can strike the happy balance between reading at a reasonable speed and looking at what is not being said. Speed reading isn't everything...
Lizzy
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septentrion - Jan 4, 2005 4:06 am (#2272 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I agree Lizzy, I read too quickly too, at least in French. What's great with JKR's novel is they're in English and I have to be careful to what I'm reading. Yet I could read HBP within 2 days I think.
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 4, 2005 4:16 am (#2273 of 2923)
As a fellow speed reader I unfortunetly will not have the opportunity to re-read right away. There are 5 people in my house (husband, mother & father-in-law and house mate). We are only allowed a maximum of 3 copies of the Harry Potter books at any one time so I will read and then pass to husband. I guess I will just have to bite my lip and discuss the story with my father-in-law who is also a speed reader and will be reading before his wife!
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Nicole Bloom - Jan 4, 2005 6:19 am (#2274 of 2923)
I also like the idea of a black out period and a read at you're own risk thread. I'm not so much a speed reading as once I start with HBP, I know I will not be able to stop until I have finished. OofP took me from about 9am ( I was at work )until around 2 am. As for a reread, with OofP once I was finished, I put it down at didn't pick it up for 6 months, or any Harry book for that matter. I was too mad at JK. (I've finished being mad though.) If I'm mad at her, I won't be reading it again for a while and will need somewhere to vent.
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scoop2172000 - Jan 4, 2005 6:21 am (#2275 of 2923)
I think the read-at-your-own risk thread is a great idea. How about starting it on Monday, July 18? We speed readers (of whom I am one) will have Half-Blood Prince read by the end of the weekend of the release.
P.S. My own plans involve reading the book over the weekend and then taking my time listening to the audio book. By the way, do we have confirmation yet that Jim Dale will perform the U.S. audio book and Stephen Frye the U.K. audio book?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 6:58 am (#2276 of 2923)
I know I won't get on the Forum until I'm done. It took me 11 straight hours of reading for OoP. When I'm done I'm selfishly going to be looking for someone to talk to about the book. Please no week long black out. LPO
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Eponine - Jan 4, 2005 7:37 am (#2277 of 2923)
I wasn't a member here when OotP came out, but I don't want to wait a week before we can start discussing it either. I had OotP finished by 2:00 the next day after I'd gotten it at midnight, and that's with falling asleep against my will. I like the idea of a read at your own risk thread. Perhaps we can have a black out week on taking HBP discussions to other threads? We can still talk about Snape on the Snape thread, but not in relation to HBP. Any ideas?
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Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 8:20 am (#2278 of 2923)
How about a HBP Spoilers Section with a few different, sort of "general" threads:
The Prophecy
The Ministry
Harry/Voldemort
The Order of the Phoenix
The Death Eaters
Hogwarts Students
Hogwarts Staff
Wouldn't most things fit into one of those general categories? After a week--or however long they decide to give--most comments could go to their respective threads. If a post contains spoilers, label it up front with a big SPOILER in caps before starting the post. That way, people could read at their own risk or just skip over whatever it is. Just suggestions, of course ...
Solitaire
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vball man - Jan 4, 2005 11:33 am (#2279 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
When you say "blackout," do you no posting? Or just no posting spoilers?
I'd suggest "post at will." With two exceptions:
1. I suppose we may want to just catch up with friends here. We should have one or two threads just for catching up - complaining about dry eyes from staring at pages, etc.
2. A few threads for discussing sections. Untill you've finished the book you can't really discuss impact on theories. But you can discuss what you've read so far. So we should make some threads that allow us to discuss sections. Example: for GoF, we could have Riddle House (Must finish Ch. 1 first) and QuidWorldCup (Must finish Ch. 9 first) and The First Task (Must finish Ch. 20 first) and The Pensive (Must finish Ch. 20 first).
All the other threads would be open for spoilers - don't go to those till you're done with the book.
My 2 cents.
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Eliza - Jan 4, 2005 11:33 am (#2280 of 2923)
I really like Solitaire's ideas. I am myself a slow reader and am preordering from Amazon. So unless the library has it ready on the 16th, I am going to have to wait until Monday to even start reading. However, I am a good girl and will not be returning to the forum until I have completed the book. However, I do think that the speed readers should have somewhere to start talking about the book on Saturday night. Besides with all the different time zones, some of the speed readers will be done before others have even gotten their hands on the book.
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Eliza - Jan 4, 2005 11:37 am (#2281 of 2923)
Chapter by Chapter threads seem really cool. I might be willing to visit those before finishing the book. If I can stop reading long enough. I do remember wanting to vent my rage about the horrible Umbridge to someone after the detention chapter in OoP.
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Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 11:50 am (#2282 of 2923)
I, too, like the chapter-by-chapter idea. That would really keep things where they belong--until, of course, they begin spilling over into all the other chapter threads! LOL
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Her-melanie - Jan 4, 2005 12:07 pm (#2283 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Hi all! This question is for any of you who pre-ordered any of the other potters from Amazon. Did it come earlier than the release date? I know some things do, but I am trying to decide whether to go wait at the bookstore and cancel my preorder. Thanks.
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KWeldon - Jan 4, 2005 12:09 pm (#2284 of 2923)
I'm not taking any chances and will be waiting in line for the book.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 4, 2005 12:47 pm (#2285 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Her-melanie - When OotP was released either Jo or the publishers had taken some pretty serious precautions to ensure it was not in our hands until the actual release date. I'm waiting at the bookstore.
Mikie
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Veritaserum - Jan 4, 2005 1:13 pm (#2286 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Yeah, vball man, great idea. I was going to suggest something like that myself but you got there first. I know I'll probably finish pretty quick, but I'm not sure what other daily life distractions I'll have. Oop took me four days and I actually did other stuff. And good point about the time zones.
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Steve Newton - Jan 4, 2005 1:48 pm (#2287 of 2923)
Librarian
Her-melanie, for OOTP Amazon arranged for delivery on the first day of publication at no extra charge. My, actually my sons, copy came a little after noon.
I ordered 2 copies this time.
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hellocello3200 - Jan 4, 2005 3:47 pm (#2288 of 2923)
I got my OotP off Amazon and it came sometime after noon. I recall it being alot cheaper in price than a storebought copy, even with shipping and handleing. It was sooo difficult for me because my sister was visiting, who thinks fantasty is for kids and only reads chick-lit and I had to sit there and talk while my unopen book sat on my lap.
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Her-melanie - Jan 4, 2005 4:01 pm (#2289 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Oooooh, Hellocello, that sounds like Torture.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 4, 2005 4:05 pm (#2290 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
You sure you'll aren't related to Aunt Marge someplace back.
Mikie
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Qwaz - Jan 4, 2005 5:55 pm (#2291 of 2923)
I'd give a vote in for a blackout of some sort followed by a period where only very clearly marked threads are for HPB discussion.
I read at, what I think is, a moderate speed. Fully taking in each word and will be away from the site anyway but just incase i'd suggest:
2-3 Days of no-posting. Then
2 weeks of thread specific discussion with clear spoiler tags in titles of threads. Then
2 more weeks of more or less open discussion with spoiler tags in posts.
Anyone still being spoiled after a month should not really be at this site at all and has noone to blame but themself.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 5:59 pm (#2292 of 2923)
I like the idea of chapter by chapter threads and/or a thread devoted to HBP for people who have read it. I really do not want restrictions on what to post at least somewhere! LPO
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Qwaz - Jan 4, 2005 6:07 pm (#2293 of 2923)
That's the joy of a "Half Blood Prince Café" say. It may not have topic specific conversations (E.g - "Hermione's significance in HBP") but it'll allow us to ramble and throw out feelings...etc until a week or so have gone by.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 6:16 pm (#2294 of 2923)
Great title Qwaz! LPO
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Qwaz - Jan 4, 2005 6:59 pm (#2295 of 2923)
Why thank you. Please, call me Chij.
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vball man - Jan 4, 2005 7:06 pm (#2296 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Well I posted a brief suggestion for how to handle this. Some liked it, so I'll expound a bit.
Here's what I think we should do:
1. All of the current threads (as of July 15) would be continued with no spoiler limits. (post any HBP info)
2. A new thread, "How far are you so far?" (or "Half Blood Cafe") will let us talk about how far we've read.
3. Several threads will have to be started as people get further and further. I think its better to do "sections" rather than chapters. As the fast readers go through the book, they'll define the sections. Probably about 5-10 for the book. These will be temporary threads - once most people have read the book, they won't be necessary. By then everyone will be posting about how I was right about Recurring Boy who Lived. LOL.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 7:16 pm (#2297 of 2923)
Vball Man I missed your "Recurring Boy who Lived" theory. I like your suggestions. It gives lots of options. As long as we can have the Cafe I'll be happy. LPO
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vball man - Jan 4, 2005 7:57 pm (#2298 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Yeah, I like the Cafe. It sounds like a nice place to be. We'll need the coffee after a couple hours of reading.
(Recurring Boy who Lived has a thread in theories.)
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Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 8:21 pm (#2299 of 2923)
Qwaz: Anyone still being spoiled after a month should not really be at this site at all and has no one to blame but himself
Now, that's my idea of "tough love" Harry Potter style! LOL thanks for a good giggle. I needed one after the day I had.
Solitaire
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The giant squid - Jan 4, 2005 11:46 pm (#2300 of 2923)
Her-Melanie, my copy of OotP arrived from Amazon at 10AM the day of release. Okay, officially it was my wife's copy, but I ended up reading it first because I read faster than she does & she was still re-reading GoF. I think it's very likely that the same thing will happen this time around, even with it falling on a Saturday. The fact that HBP became the #1 bestseller through preorders only within a day of being offered for sale has to carry some kind of weight in the shipping department!
--Mike
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By July 17th i'll have finished it and will probably be re-reading it by July 31st!
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KWeldon - Jan 2, 2005 1:46 pm (#2252 of 2923)
By July 17th i'll have finished it and will probably be re-reading it by July 31st!
Me, too, but I wonder if Hollywand meant that we will be immersed in dissecting it and discussing it with each other.
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Hollywand - Jan 2, 2005 1:50 pm (#2253 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Exactly, Kurt. Never tickle a sleeping dragon, I say. And never try to hold a birthday party for one because they'll set the whole cake ablaze!
Siriusly, on her website, she mentions the release date along with a sly reference to a birthday gift. It could be a clue in hiding.
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Nicole Bloom - Jan 2, 2005 7:12 pm (#2254 of 2923)
The beginning of July is a big holiday time for Canadians as well, Canada Day which is Canada's Birthday is July 1st. As I am Canadian I thought I'd throw that in.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 2, 2005 7:39 pm (#2255 of 2923)
I'm looking forward to starting at midnight and reading through the night. I love the thought of millions around the world all enjoying the same book at the same time. I imagine the forum will be quiet for a few hours then absolutely explode with activity. I'm a newby here, I joined summer of 04. LPO
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Marie E. - Jan 2, 2005 10:50 pm (#2256 of 2923)
Last time we shut down the entire forum to new comments for the whole weekend to give everyone a sporting chance at reading it without spoilers. After that you were reading the forum at your own risk, so to speak. I remember I was reading the chapter The Noble House of Black and I had a desperate urge to talk to someone about it.
I'll be going to Denver this time and probably reading in the car all the way home.
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The giant squid - Jan 3, 2005 2:28 am (#2257 of 2923)
Marie, you & I will probably be boring half the family to tears at the reunion this summer blabbling about HBP. That, or we'll draw out all the closet Potties.
--Mike
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Saralinda Again - Jan 3, 2005 9:25 am (#2258 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
I posted this in "shortest stay on Privet Drive," but it fits here, too.
What if the release date of July 16 was chosen not only becaue it's Saturday, but because Harry leaves 4PD on July 16th?
Imagine all of us reading chapter one or two early on July 16 and that's the day the action takes place, too!
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Her-melanie - Jan 3, 2005 10:34 am (#2259 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Ann, I thought your post about the old traditions related to Midsummer's Eve was very interesting, especially "dropping melted lead into water, throwing a newly cut oak handle into a fire and planting hempseed in the local church grounds at midnight." That reminds me very much of Voldy's rebirthing: the lead being Wormtail's new hand, and the church grounds/ graveyard where everything happened.
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mike miller - Jan 3, 2005 2:44 pm (#2260 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I really haven't given any thought to what I will do about the Forum while I'm reading HBP. I tend to be a slow reader (I blame it on the fact that I never learned to crawl) and will have to be very wary of spoilers.
I rather like the idea of having a "black-out week" to give everyone a chance; perhaps with the addition of an "I've Finished Reading" thread to keep HBP info from leaking into the other threads too quickly. This would let you speed readers talk all you like and let the rest of us catch up. Just a thought...
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Her-melanie - Jan 3, 2005 3:34 pm (#2261 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Maybe I'm just being stupid, but when JKR said on her site that she hoped it (HBP release) would be a good birthday present to "Delleve who posts on the Leaky Cauldron," what was she talking about? Does the Leaky Cauldron have its own forum? Did she mean this forum? I searched for a "Delleve" and couldn't find one here. I am confused about it, but I am afraid that I am being quite dumb.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 3, 2005 3:49 pm (#2262 of 2923)
Hi All! Happy New Year and Happy Birthday Me!!
Did anyone else think about July being the seventh month and as the 16th is the first day of the second half of the month (depending on how you look at it) it is actually at the beginning of when 'the seventh month dies'? Maybe the significance is yet to be found, or maybe it's JK being responsible and releasing the book at the end of term for UK schoolchildren.
BTW, I add my vote to the 'black out week'. Mike; great idea about the 'Finished Reading' thread.
Aurora xx
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Eponine - Jan 3, 2005 3:50 pm (#2263 of 2923)
The Leaky Cauldron does not have it's own forum, but it does have comments on stories. I believe JKR was reading the comments.
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Ainsley Black - Jan 3, 2005 3:55 pm (#2264 of 2923)
I would add my vote to having a black-out, great idea!!!
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KWeldon - Jan 3, 2005 4:48 pm (#2265 of 2923)
I'm adding my vote to having a blackout, too. It will be too tempting to check on here for discussion about something in the earlier chapters...
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Amilia Smith - Jan 3, 2005 5:20 pm (#2266 of 2923)
Hre-melanie, and any one else who is interested: here is what Leaky had to say about Jo mentioning Delleve's birthday (and what Delleve had to say, too.) Just scroll down a bit.
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Mills.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 3, 2005 5:27 pm (#2267 of 2923)
I like the idea of a separate thread for people who have finished the book. I am sure there are things I'm going to want to share with people and no one I know will be done with it as fast as I am. The "read at your own risk" makes sense to me. LPO
EDIT: Marie E I hope you won't be driving! I'll stay off I25. When you are in Denver I'll be happly reading in Longmont. LPO
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 3, 2005 9:10 pm (#2268 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
5 days? A week? And no one to talk to? Oh my! And what am I supposed to do with 5 days? I can read OoP in 24 hours, reflect and reread in another 24, and what do I do with the next 5 days?
Blackout sounds good, but can we change the timetable?
Edit: Read at own risk I can handle. After all, if those who have a hard time resisting temptation avoided flipping to last chapter imagine what heights they can hit?
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 4, 2005 12:11 am (#2269 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
TBE, Like you I could do with a black out, but not for long (I read way too fast!), I like the idea of a read at own risk comments thread that can be archived after the blackout finishes.
I am toying with the idea of taking the train to Sydney on the Friday and buying HBP at my favourite bookshop on the Saturday morning and taking the train home on the Sunday.
This time 'round I want to do something special to get the book, and support my favourite bookshop.
Lizzy
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 4, 2005 2:07 am (#2270 of 2923)
All you speed readers out there; How about re-reading to see what you missed/had forgotten from the first time around? You'll still be ahead of the rest of us!
Aurora xx
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 4, 2005 3:23 am (#2271 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Thats what the train trip is for; the re-read! By the time I get on the train the next morning I'll have already finished it! Eight-to-Nine hours in a train goes pretty fast if you are reading as I discovered last time I took the train. The Ian Rankin novels I wanted to savour slowly over a week were all finished by the time I got home. Rats!!
I envy those who can strike the happy balance between reading at a reasonable speed and looking at what is not being said. Speed reading isn't everything...
Lizzy
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septentrion - Jan 4, 2005 4:06 am (#2272 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I agree Lizzy, I read too quickly too, at least in French. What's great with JKR's novel is they're in English and I have to be careful to what I'm reading. Yet I could read HBP within 2 days I think.
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 4, 2005 4:16 am (#2273 of 2923)
As a fellow speed reader I unfortunetly will not have the opportunity to re-read right away. There are 5 people in my house (husband, mother & father-in-law and house mate). We are only allowed a maximum of 3 copies of the Harry Potter books at any one time so I will read and then pass to husband. I guess I will just have to bite my lip and discuss the story with my father-in-law who is also a speed reader and will be reading before his wife!
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Nicole Bloom - Jan 4, 2005 6:19 am (#2274 of 2923)
I also like the idea of a black out period and a read at you're own risk thread. I'm not so much a speed reading as once I start with HBP, I know I will not be able to stop until I have finished. OofP took me from about 9am ( I was at work )until around 2 am. As for a reread, with OofP once I was finished, I put it down at didn't pick it up for 6 months, or any Harry book for that matter. I was too mad at JK. (I've finished being mad though.) If I'm mad at her, I won't be reading it again for a while and will need somewhere to vent.
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scoop2172000 - Jan 4, 2005 6:21 am (#2275 of 2923)
I think the read-at-your-own risk thread is a great idea. How about starting it on Monday, July 18? We speed readers (of whom I am one) will have Half-Blood Prince read by the end of the weekend of the release.
P.S. My own plans involve reading the book over the weekend and then taking my time listening to the audio book. By the way, do we have confirmation yet that Jim Dale will perform the U.S. audio book and Stephen Frye the U.K. audio book?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 6:58 am (#2276 of 2923)
I know I won't get on the Forum until I'm done. It took me 11 straight hours of reading for OoP. When I'm done I'm selfishly going to be looking for someone to talk to about the book. Please no week long black out. LPO
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Eponine - Jan 4, 2005 7:37 am (#2277 of 2923)
I wasn't a member here when OotP came out, but I don't want to wait a week before we can start discussing it either. I had OotP finished by 2:00 the next day after I'd gotten it at midnight, and that's with falling asleep against my will. I like the idea of a read at your own risk thread. Perhaps we can have a black out week on taking HBP discussions to other threads? We can still talk about Snape on the Snape thread, but not in relation to HBP. Any ideas?
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Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 8:20 am (#2278 of 2923)
How about a HBP Spoilers Section with a few different, sort of "general" threads:
The Prophecy
The Ministry
Harry/Voldemort
The Order of the Phoenix
The Death Eaters
Hogwarts Students
Hogwarts Staff
Wouldn't most things fit into one of those general categories? After a week--or however long they decide to give--most comments could go to their respective threads. If a post contains spoilers, label it up front with a big SPOILER in caps before starting the post. That way, people could read at their own risk or just skip over whatever it is. Just suggestions, of course ...
Solitaire
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vball man - Jan 4, 2005 11:33 am (#2279 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
When you say "blackout," do you no posting? Or just no posting spoilers?
I'd suggest "post at will." With two exceptions:
1. I suppose we may want to just catch up with friends here. We should have one or two threads just for catching up - complaining about dry eyes from staring at pages, etc.
2. A few threads for discussing sections. Untill you've finished the book you can't really discuss impact on theories. But you can discuss what you've read so far. So we should make some threads that allow us to discuss sections. Example: for GoF, we could have Riddle House (Must finish Ch. 1 first) and QuidWorldCup (Must finish Ch. 9 first) and The First Task (Must finish Ch. 20 first) and The Pensive (Must finish Ch. 20 first).
All the other threads would be open for spoilers - don't go to those till you're done with the book.
My 2 cents.
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Eliza - Jan 4, 2005 11:33 am (#2280 of 2923)
I really like Solitaire's ideas. I am myself a slow reader and am preordering from Amazon. So unless the library has it ready on the 16th, I am going to have to wait until Monday to even start reading. However, I am a good girl and will not be returning to the forum until I have completed the book. However, I do think that the speed readers should have somewhere to start talking about the book on Saturday night. Besides with all the different time zones, some of the speed readers will be done before others have even gotten their hands on the book.
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Eliza - Jan 4, 2005 11:37 am (#2281 of 2923)
Chapter by Chapter threads seem really cool. I might be willing to visit those before finishing the book. If I can stop reading long enough. I do remember wanting to vent my rage about the horrible Umbridge to someone after the detention chapter in OoP.
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Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 11:50 am (#2282 of 2923)
I, too, like the chapter-by-chapter idea. That would really keep things where they belong--until, of course, they begin spilling over into all the other chapter threads! LOL
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Her-melanie - Jan 4, 2005 12:07 pm (#2283 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Hi all! This question is for any of you who pre-ordered any of the other potters from Amazon. Did it come earlier than the release date? I know some things do, but I am trying to decide whether to go wait at the bookstore and cancel my preorder. Thanks.
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KWeldon - Jan 4, 2005 12:09 pm (#2284 of 2923)
I'm not taking any chances and will be waiting in line for the book.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 4, 2005 12:47 pm (#2285 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Her-melanie - When OotP was released either Jo or the publishers had taken some pretty serious precautions to ensure it was not in our hands until the actual release date. I'm waiting at the bookstore.
Mikie
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Veritaserum - Jan 4, 2005 1:13 pm (#2286 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Yeah, vball man, great idea. I was going to suggest something like that myself but you got there first. I know I'll probably finish pretty quick, but I'm not sure what other daily life distractions I'll have. Oop took me four days and I actually did other stuff. And good point about the time zones.
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Steve Newton - Jan 4, 2005 1:48 pm (#2287 of 2923)
Librarian
Her-melanie, for OOTP Amazon arranged for delivery on the first day of publication at no extra charge. My, actually my sons, copy came a little after noon.
I ordered 2 copies this time.
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hellocello3200 - Jan 4, 2005 3:47 pm (#2288 of 2923)
I got my OotP off Amazon and it came sometime after noon. I recall it being alot cheaper in price than a storebought copy, even with shipping and handleing. It was sooo difficult for me because my sister was visiting, who thinks fantasty is for kids and only reads chick-lit and I had to sit there and talk while my unopen book sat on my lap.
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Her-melanie - Jan 4, 2005 4:01 pm (#2289 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Oooooh, Hellocello, that sounds like Torture.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 4, 2005 4:05 pm (#2290 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
You sure you'll aren't related to Aunt Marge someplace back.
Mikie
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Qwaz - Jan 4, 2005 5:55 pm (#2291 of 2923)
I'd give a vote in for a blackout of some sort followed by a period where only very clearly marked threads are for HPB discussion.
I read at, what I think is, a moderate speed. Fully taking in each word and will be away from the site anyway but just incase i'd suggest:
2-3 Days of no-posting. Then
2 weeks of thread specific discussion with clear spoiler tags in titles of threads. Then
2 more weeks of more or less open discussion with spoiler tags in posts.
Anyone still being spoiled after a month should not really be at this site at all and has noone to blame but themself.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 5:59 pm (#2292 of 2923)
I like the idea of chapter by chapter threads and/or a thread devoted to HBP for people who have read it. I really do not want restrictions on what to post at least somewhere! LPO
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Qwaz - Jan 4, 2005 6:07 pm (#2293 of 2923)
That's the joy of a "Half Blood Prince Café" say. It may not have topic specific conversations (E.g - "Hermione's significance in HBP") but it'll allow us to ramble and throw out feelings...etc until a week or so have gone by.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 6:16 pm (#2294 of 2923)
Great title Qwaz! LPO
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Qwaz - Jan 4, 2005 6:59 pm (#2295 of 2923)
Why thank you. Please, call me Chij.
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vball man - Jan 4, 2005 7:06 pm (#2296 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Well I posted a brief suggestion for how to handle this. Some liked it, so I'll expound a bit.
Here's what I think we should do:
1. All of the current threads (as of July 15) would be continued with no spoiler limits. (post any HBP info)
2. A new thread, "How far are you so far?" (or "Half Blood Cafe") will let us talk about how far we've read.
3. Several threads will have to be started as people get further and further. I think its better to do "sections" rather than chapters. As the fast readers go through the book, they'll define the sections. Probably about 5-10 for the book. These will be temporary threads - once most people have read the book, they won't be necessary. By then everyone will be posting about how I was right about Recurring Boy who Lived. LOL.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 4, 2005 7:16 pm (#2297 of 2923)
Vball Man I missed your "Recurring Boy who Lived" theory. I like your suggestions. It gives lots of options. As long as we can have the Cafe I'll be happy. LPO
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vball man - Jan 4, 2005 7:57 pm (#2298 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Yeah, I like the Cafe. It sounds like a nice place to be. We'll need the coffee after a couple hours of reading.
(Recurring Boy who Lived has a thread in theories.)
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Solitaire - Jan 4, 2005 8:21 pm (#2299 of 2923)
Qwaz: Anyone still being spoiled after a month should not really be at this site at all and has no one to blame but himself
Now, that's my idea of "tough love" Harry Potter style! LOL thanks for a good giggle. I needed one after the day I had.
Solitaire
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The giant squid - Jan 4, 2005 11:46 pm (#2300 of 2923)
Her-Melanie, my copy of OotP arrived from Amazon at 10AM the day of release. Okay, officially it was my wife's copy, but I ended up reading it first because I read faster than she does & she was still re-reading GoF. I think it's very likely that the same thing will happen this time around, even with it falling on a Saturday. The fact that HBP became the #1 bestseller through preorders only within a day of being offered for sale has to carry some kind of weight in the shipping department!
--Mike
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2301 to 2350)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:52 am
Steve Newton - Jan 5, 2005 7:09 am (#2301 of 2923)
Librarian
In chapter 1 of SS McGonagall says that Dumbledore can't do some of the spells that Lord V can because he, Dumbledore, is too noble. I am coming to think that Dumbledore is the HBP.
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mollis - Jan 5, 2005 7:32 am (#2302 of 2923)
Mike- OOTP came out on a Saturday too. My copy arrived around 2pm, but I was living out in the middle of nowhere Virginia at that time. I haven't decided if I am going to chance it with the on-line order or go to the store Sat. am.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 5, 2005 7:35 am (#2303 of 2923)
If Half-Blood Prince is smaller than Order of the Phoenix I will start it at 9 am, finish it by lunch, take a food break, then start to re-read and still have finished by meal time. Secon thoughts I will just forget the meals and read all day. I started OoP at 10 am and finished it by 4.
As to silence - what!!!!!! To be banned from discussing the finer points with others for a week. Not that is on the Umbridge level of punishment. Fellow speed readers - lets start swapping emails now.
But my weak before HBP comes out. Monday - reread PS/SS. Tuesday - reread CoS. Wednesday - reread PoA. Thursday - reread GoF. Friday - reread OoP and then try and get some sleep.
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Solitaire - Jan 5, 2005 11:23 am (#2304 of 2923)
I believe you can pre-order a copy at Borders, so that it will be waiting for you!
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 5, 2005 12:33 pm (#2305 of 2923)
Message to any unfortunate witch, wizard or Muggle in the Harrow area of Middlesex, UK; Buy it in a shop!!! Amazon are excellent, and when OOTP came through it was on the morning of the release date. Since then, there have been changes in the local postal service. When POA came out on DVD I had to wait TEN DAYS for it to get here!!!!! If only I had an owl...
Aurora xx
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KTO - Jan 5, 2005 1:07 pm (#2306 of 2923)
I would like to see a HBP thread for each chapter, that way no spoilers. I am going to at least try to take my time with reading HBP, one chapter a day so I can enjoy if for as long as possible, I said this about OOTP and was NOT successful. Currently I am rereading, for the first time since being part of this forum and it is a whole new experience, however to make it last, I am forcing myself to read two books inbetween each HP, it is driving me a little mad, but I am hoping that I will end up not having to wait months between OOTP and HBP.
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Monroe - Jan 5, 2005 5:17 pm (#2307 of 2923)
I am new to this forum and am not a speed reader by any means. I like the idea of grouping up some chapters, say 3-5 at a time and after 2 days of blackout, let people decide for themselves if they want to be spoiled by knowing what happens. I mean we are adults and it is our own fault if we look ahead to see.
Monroe
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 5, 2005 6:33 pm (#2308 of 2923)
Steve, Interesting catch on DD. It will be interesting to see. I love the thought of DD as a Prince, but who is the King? I don't think we have met the HBP because that is the pattern.
I hope there is no black out, except a natural one caused by us reading. I agree Monroe, we are responsible for protecting ourselves from looking ahead. LPO
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vball man - Jan 5, 2005 6:43 pm (#2309 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Well, its possible that there is no king. "Prince" is used, not for royalty, but the way Dumbledore used it when he said, "you arrived at Hogwarts, neither as happy nor as well-nourished as I would have liked, perhaps, yet alive and healthy You were not a pampered little prince, but as normal a boy as..."
If Dumbledore was raised with priviledge and found that too much pressure at too young an age, that would explain why Dumbledore says in PS, ""Exactly," said Dumbledore, looking very seriously over the top of his half-moon glasses. "It would be enough to turn any boy's head. Famous before he can walk and talk! Famous for something he won't even remember! Can't you see how much better off he'll be, growing up away from all that until he's ready to take it?"
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 5, 2005 6:49 pm (#2310 of 2923)
I agree vball man. There may not be a king. You give good examples. The royalty may not come from the WW. The person maybe half Muggle royalty. Though I can't see the WW caring about Muggle royalty. LPO
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The giant squid - Jan 5, 2005 6:55 pm (#2311 of 2923)
Those of you asking for separate chapter threads "to avoid spoilers" have failed to realize something: Unless they're titled simply "HBP Ch. 1", "HBP Ch. 2", etc, the titles themselves will contain spoilers.
As for the blackout, I like the idea. We'll all be ignoring our families & friends that week as it is, the added pull of the forum will serve to cut us completely off from the outside world. If there's no forum calling out to us, we might remember to eat occasionally.
--Mike
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 5, 2005 6:57 pm (#2312 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I see the HBP as champion of causes, not royalty. I think the HBP is Dumbledore. :-)
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Ann - Jan 5, 2005 6:57 pm (#2313 of 2923)
A lot of us think the Half-Blood Prince is a historical character. So there's also the medieval model of a "prince," meaning the ruler of an independent "principality." (Like Machiavelli's "The Prince.") This could be as small as a city state (like a lot in Italy) or as big as England. Queen Elizabeth I refers to herself often as a prince--so in this sense one could even include women.
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Qwaz - Jan 5, 2005 9:27 pm (#2314 of 2923)
I'm with TwinklingBlueEyes as far as "champion of causes" goes (I like that phrase, thank you). Not so sure it's Dumbledore myself though.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 5, 2005 10:31 pm (#2315 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Thank you Qwaz. I think the phrase fits Dumbledore to a tee. Even without knowing his "blood status" we know where he stands on the issues of prejudice and status. He not only champions muggles, but all other "creatures" besides. He realises that similar to the prophesy, one can't live while the other survives. We all share one planet and limited resourses. If not pulling together, all suffer and may not survive. Just as the Fountain of Magical Breathern told a lie, supposing all are in peace and harmony. The Dark side chooses to see things one way, the light, the other. Choices.
With 5 books gone I don't see a new character being the HBP, nor do I see a historical character "coming back to life'", as it were. What I think we will see is the history surrounding Harry and the prophesy and and Dumbledore's "role" in it all. Also consider to Harry, at 15 or 16 vs Dumbledore's 155 +/-, in Harry's eyes Dumbledore IS ancient history. :-)
Sorry if that doesn't make much sense but I'm having a rough night. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
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vball man - Jan 5, 2005 10:50 pm (#2316 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Those of you asking for separate chapter threads "to avoid spoilers" have failed to realize something: Unless they're titled simply "HBP Ch. 1", "HBP Ch. 2", etc, the titles themselves will contain spoilers. - Giant Squid.
I would expect those who name the threads to give them appropriate names.
The best bet would be to name the thread the same as the name of the Chapter that finishes the section.
i.e.,
Riddle House (Must finish Ch. 1 first)
QuidWorldCup (Must finish Ch. 9 first)
The First Task (Must finish Ch. 20 first)
The Pensive (Must finish Ch. 20 first)
I think that JKr named the chapters so that it wouldn't give too much away if you read the Table of Contents.
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 6, 2005 5:54 am (#2317 of 2923)
Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this but.. Anyone in the UK who can get hold of T2, a supplement from The Times newspaper, for today (Thursday) will find an article on Pg23 which might be of interest. It is more of a joke than serious but addresses the theory that Jo will be killing Hagrid off in HBP. I have no ability, I'm afraid, to allow Lexicon members outside of the UK to read this article unless you want a very long post from me with a transcript of it! thanks Kerrie-Louise
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Gerald Costales - Jan 6, 2005 5:59 am (#2318 of 2923)
Monaco is a Principality thus it ruled by His "Serene Highness Prince Rainier III".
Unclear if royalty exists in UK Wizarding World. But let's not forget the rest of the Wizarding World. If an African Wizard country had a Prince, it could open the door for Dean Thomas being the HBP. We don't know who or what Dean's biological father was. (Now, here's the big "if".) IF Dean's father was a KING or PRINCE, wouldn't that make Dean Thomas a "Half-Blood Prince"?
My gut feeling about the HBP is that's it Godric Gryffindor. (Will not rehash my or other arguments that I think support this choice.) My second choice would be that Lion-like character that was described in that excerpt on JKR's website awhile back. ;-) GC
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Qwaz - Jan 6, 2005 9:51 am (#2319 of 2923)
Sign me up Mr.BlueEyes. You present a good arguement, logically.
I actually have a copy of the T2 supplement next to me and pages 23-27 are TV and Radio guides :S I don't see the article of which you speak. I'm going to examine the other supplement the T2 was inside and see if my pages got mixed up or something.
BTW: did you complete the Su-Doku today Kerrie-Louise, I think they're great little puzzles.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 6, 2005 11:26 am (#2320 of 2923)
TBE I respectfully disagree. Every book we get to meet new characters. I am pretty sure the DADA teacher will be new. The titles all have something to do with a person or topic we have met in passing or not at all.
vball, great breakdown. I think that is a good idea. LPO
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Her-melanie - Jan 6, 2005 11:31 am (#2321 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Thanks for everyone's help with my pre-order dilemma; I think I will wait at the bookstore anyway...As for me, I am a serious speed reader but I am giving myself a time limit this time. I don;t want to finish too quickly.
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hellocello3200 - Jan 6, 2005 7:26 pm (#2322 of 2923)
I agree with vball man that naming threads after chapters wouldn't spoil anything. I always glance at the table of contents before I start and guess what's going to happen in them. I don't think isolated chapter titles give much away, just something involved in the chapter usually.
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Ann - Jan 6, 2005 7:38 pm (#2323 of 2923)
I agree with hellocello, chapter titles are quite enigmatic, and JKR's are always so intriguing that they'll just charm anyone who hasn't got there yet.
I fondly remember picking up book one in 1998 or so, reading through the chapter titles and the first few pages and buying the thing instantly.
And *sob* I'll be one of the people who has to avoid reading the spoiler posts--I finished OotP in about 12 hours, but this time I'll be in Cairo, of all places! How annoying! Has anyone got any suggestions about how to get a copy there? Amazon? AUC?
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Hollywand - Jan 6, 2005 8:01 pm (#2324 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Ann, I bet the airport in Cairo will have an English copy for travellers.
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septentrion - Jan 7, 2005 3:40 am (#2325 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Ann, you may find some information if you googled "bookstore cairo". You could find adresses of some bookstores and contact them to know if they'll sell HBP.
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Eliza - Jan 7, 2005 10:53 am (#2326 of 2923)
Since most countries teach English as required learning, it is not unreasonable to think that they would be selling the English version of such a popular series in Cairo. Some of the big chains such as Barnes and Noble, Borders, or Books-a-Million may have a location there and are more likely to carry the book then some of the smaller bookstores because they have less to lose if they don't sell.
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Ann - Jan 7, 2005 11:50 am (#2327 of 2923)
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm sure I'll be able to get a copy there eventually--but I suspect there will be a time lag. But you're all correct; planning ahead might let me get my copy on the 16th.
I just worry about seeing something before I manage to get hold of it: on TV, or an international Newsweek with a cover that says: LUPIN IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE! (or something). That would really be painful.
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KWeldon - Jan 7, 2005 4:02 pm (#2328 of 2923)
I just worry about seeing something before I manage to get hold of it: on TV, or an international Newsweek with a cover that says: LUPIN IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE! (or something). That would really be painful
I would boycott all media, if I were you. Seriously, HP is too big a phenomenon not to hear something about it, and it may even be kind of nebulous, like "shocking ending" that could upset you.
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Saralinda Again - Jan 7, 2005 4:56 pm (#2329 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Heck, in a newsgroup I used to belong to, I got a *spam* email on June 19, 2003, two days before OotP release, that had as its header:
URGENT Harry Potter News! URGENT! Sirius Black dies!
... Which then proceeded in the text to pitch discount rates on Viagara and stuff to me.
[Sigh}
I don't mind spoilers, myself; in fact, sometimes knowing what will happen helps me see the author's craft at work -- and besides, I don't handle suspense very well. :-/
Saralinda
"Consistently guessing wrong about Harry Potter since 2002."
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KWeldon - Jan 7, 2005 9:48 pm (#2330 of 2923)
Saralinda, I would have been SO FURIOUS if that had happened to me!!!!
All, I've been thinking about where things are headed after Book 6 in that you have to figure that at least some of our questions will be answered there. What I mean is, are we going to have less to speculate on after HP6 because some theories will be proven/disproven, or is HP6 going to bring up enough new material to keep up the same amount of discussion? I'd have to say that there's only so much she can leave for Book 7, unless it's length is going to be extraordinary, which means we will have less to discuss/theorize with.
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Harry-ette - Jan 8, 2005 5:10 am (#2331 of 2923)
I'm having a small dilemma. I have pre-ordered HBP from Amazon, but I have decided to quit my job in early summer and go travelling round the States. The plan was to come back to England on the 26th of July. Do you all think I should book an earlier flight back to get the UK copy, or stay in the States and buy a US copy (ending up with two copies of the book)?
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Gerald Costales - Jan 8, 2005 7:39 am (#2332 of 2923)
Buy the American edition.
Given the time and opportunity, I'd like to some day read the British editions of Harry Potter. Part of the fun of reading the Potter series is getting a feel for British life. Besides there are minor differences between the editions that might be fun to read.
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Saralinda Again - Jan 8, 2005 8:19 am (#2333 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
KWeldon, I'm positive that we'll have more than enough new stuff to chew on after HBP comes out. We'll also have old stuff to revisit and possibly re-evaluate in light of what we read in Book 6.
In fact, I would not be a bit surprised if there's a mass of new speculation after Book 7. I can see Potterheads happily musing for years to come on what will or will not happen to some character that has survived the series.
(And of course, the fanfic sites will go totally ballistic. I used to believe this would happen only if Harry lives through the whole series, but nowadays I see so many people devoted to utterly to so many almost tangential characters* that I can't see this juggernaut slowing any time soon.)
All great fiction (print or cinematic) keeps your juices flowing long after The End appears on the page/screen. JKR has gone way beyond that point already. I wonder how many young people out there have JKR and her world to thank for the huge uptick in their reading, typing, and writing skills.
Saralinda
"Consistently guessing wrong about Harry Potter since 2002."
* I have a friend who has written for her own satisfaction, not for posting on a fan site, literally hundreds of pages about Dobby and Winky and their future adventures. The only two fanfics I've ever personally bothered to finish are one from Cornelius Fudge's point of view, and one from the viewpoint of the king's knight of Ron's wizard's chess set.
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Solitaire - Jan 8, 2005 10:49 am (#2334 of 2923)
The morning after OotP was released, I turned on my computer, logged onto the Internet, and launched my browser. The teachers.net chatrooms page--which shows who is logged into the chatrooms--came up, as usual. It had a big, ugly surprise ... some inconsiderate chatter had signed in as SiriusBlackDies, or something similar. I was furious! It isn't even a HP room. Imagine being inconsiderate enough to spoil other people's enjoyment, just to prove what a fast reader one is.
My opening page is now the HP Forum. Since we are all fans, I figure the Site Hosts will come up with an appropriate way of "shielding" those among us who wish to (or must) read more slowly from unwanted information--until they're ready ... to paraphrase Albus Dumbledore.
Solitaire
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 8, 2005 11:49 am (#2335 of 2923)
Saralinda and Solitaire I would be furious. I am going to do a media blackout until I'm done with the book.
I am sure we will have lots to talk about after the series is over (I'm trying not to think about that...). I hope Jo does a Harry Potter Encyclopedia. LPO
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Eliza - Jan 8, 2005 12:50 pm (#2336 of 2923)
I was upset enough when my husband asked me "So which character dies?" when I was only about 2 chapters into the book. I think I would have been ready to kill anyone who actually told me the end. My mom and sister both know better. They tend to read faster then me and we communicate where we are by chapter titles before discussing anything.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 8, 2005 1:07 pm (#2337 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I enjoy books more by taking my time and studing the books. Speed reading may be beneficial when studing and needing to process alot of information. But give me a good book(any HP will do), a soft comfortable chair, and some nice serene music on the stereo and I am set for the weekend.
Come on July 16th. Isn't it February yet!
Mikie
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Ann - Jan 8, 2005 1:39 pm (#2338 of 2923)
I think the trick is to assume everything you read is wrong. (Actually, this is not a bad principle for life in general.) I've decided I won't believe anything until I hear it from Jo's own...er...keyboard. After all, the person who signed on as SiriusBlackDies could be having you on! It's just because it turned out to be right that it's annoying.
And, frankly, I think things like who the HBP is and who dies will simply be unavoidable after 3 or 4 days. I was standing on a crowded corner the day before Christmas and I heard someone behind me tell a friend, "Have you heard? Harry 6 comes out July 16!" (It was probably one of you guys.)
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Eliza - Jan 8, 2005 3:07 pm (#2339 of 2923)
Well I am sorry if it was me, I ran around telling anyone that I thought would listen. I was sooooooo excited. I thought I would pop.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 8, 2005 4:33 pm (#2340 of 2923)
I did to Eliza. I keep annoying husband, friends, family, co-workers, students, everyone, with the count down. After all, since I'm a Middle School Teacher Librarian it is part of my job! 188 more days. LPO
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Veritaserum - Jan 9, 2005 10:33 am (#2341 of 2923)
Go Jays!
One of my friend's brother's friend's said to the brother, "I won't tell you who dies, seriously. I'm serious. I won't tell you who dies."
Alternately, it was my own fault for finding out who died in OOP. My stupid curiosity got the best of me and I flipped through to look at all the chapter pictures. Of course, Sirius's death is at the end of a chapter, so I was scarred for the rest of the book.
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Qwaz - Jan 10, 2005 4:32 am (#2342 of 2923)
LoL, One of my friends told me and my sister in a "Tie Shop"
Personally it didn't bother me so much as my sister. In the grand scheme of things the death is quite a small occurance. To Harry it's big, don't get me wrong but as far as my enjoyment of the book goes it didn't lessen it. I just simply put my mindframe into the book and stopped extrapolating.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 10, 2005 5:16 am (#2343 of 2923)
Qwaz; I'm behind you in the queue on that - I was sad at Sirius' sudden and strange demise, and although I didn't want it to happen it obviously needed to because of the impact it will have. Mind you, I was sobbing heartily when I read the bit about Neville's parents in hospital, particularly the bit when (sniff) Neville's mum gives him (weep) a sweet wrapper (sob) and he stuffs it in his pocket (WAAAAHHHH!).
Are we off topic?
Aurora xx
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Eliza - Jan 10, 2005 1:20 pm (#2344 of 2923)
Aurora xx you said"Neville's mum gives him (weep) a sweet wrapper"
In the US copy it says a gum wrapper. Is it different in the UK version?
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The Artful Dodger - Jan 10, 2005 4:05 pm (#2345 of 2923)
My sister also got the "Sirius dies" spoiler, my other sister told her. But, she has no right to complain, because she got the book as a present for her birthday on June 22nd 2003, and she has managed to not read it yet, can you imagine that!?
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 10, 2005 4:22 pm (#2346 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
The Artful Dodger; It must be something to do with our Sisters' being born on June 22nd because my sister flatly outright refuses to read any of them. To her they are just books that have a whole lotta (unwarranted)fuss being made about them.
Lizzy Edited for grammer and spelling
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Qwaz - Jan 10, 2005 4:42 pm (#2347 of 2923)
I think the hype about the books is over the top. I absolutely love them, don't get me wrong. But there are many books out there which deserve even a tenth of the recognition the Harry Potter series does so I sort of understand what your sister means.
What annoys me is when Harry Potter fans wont read anything else ("Can't be as good") - Yeah, given it a chance? or when "serious" readers won't read the Harry Potter books cause they're "for children" and "all hype".
Both these people suffer from lack of experimentation. I have no problem if you've tried something and hated it but at least TRY IT!
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The Artful Dodger - Jan 10, 2005 4:55 pm (#2348 of 2923)
Dizzy Lizzy, but in the case of my sister, she did read the first four! She plans to read OoP soon, though (for about six months now). It's a complete mistery.
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Amilia Smith - Jan 10, 2005 5:11 pm (#2349 of 2923)
My father has yet to read OotP as well. He read the first four just before the first movie came out, but has not yet found the time to read Book 5. So we are all still skirting Sirius's death at our house. On the bright side, we are going on a long car trip next month, and I bought the audio CDs as a Christmas present for myself. :-)
Qwaz, I absolutely agree with everything you said. I was one who avoided Harry for a long time because I thought they were hyped up kids books. And now look at me. Ironically, it is the hype and all of fandom that I am enjoying most now. It is fun to feel part of a worldwide community, and the more I time I spend here, the more I like the books. Does that make any sense?
Mills.
PS. All of you speedreaders: how and where did you learn? Not that I want to whip through HBP, but it would come in dead handy for textbooks. Answer on the chat thread. Thanks. :-)
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Qwaz - Jan 10, 2005 6:26 pm (#2350 of 2923)
There is a lot of hype but I honestly think it's deserved. All I object to slightly is that other books get ignored because of this. This is one of the reason's I'm grateful to Mrs.Rowling herself. She's always encouraging people to read, fullstop. Not just the Potter series but anything and everything.
I'm expecting the media to go into Harry Potter overdrive sometime around the begining of July.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Librarian
In chapter 1 of SS McGonagall says that Dumbledore can't do some of the spells that Lord V can because he, Dumbledore, is too noble. I am coming to think that Dumbledore is the HBP.
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mollis - Jan 5, 2005 7:32 am (#2302 of 2923)
Mike- OOTP came out on a Saturday too. My copy arrived around 2pm, but I was living out in the middle of nowhere Virginia at that time. I haven't decided if I am going to chance it with the on-line order or go to the store Sat. am.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 5, 2005 7:35 am (#2303 of 2923)
If Half-Blood Prince is smaller than Order of the Phoenix I will start it at 9 am, finish it by lunch, take a food break, then start to re-read and still have finished by meal time. Secon thoughts I will just forget the meals and read all day. I started OoP at 10 am and finished it by 4.
As to silence - what!!!!!! To be banned from discussing the finer points with others for a week. Not that is on the Umbridge level of punishment. Fellow speed readers - lets start swapping emails now.
But my weak before HBP comes out. Monday - reread PS/SS. Tuesday - reread CoS. Wednesday - reread PoA. Thursday - reread GoF. Friday - reread OoP and then try and get some sleep.
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Solitaire - Jan 5, 2005 11:23 am (#2304 of 2923)
I believe you can pre-order a copy at Borders, so that it will be waiting for you!
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 5, 2005 12:33 pm (#2305 of 2923)
Message to any unfortunate witch, wizard or Muggle in the Harrow area of Middlesex, UK; Buy it in a shop!!! Amazon are excellent, and when OOTP came through it was on the morning of the release date. Since then, there have been changes in the local postal service. When POA came out on DVD I had to wait TEN DAYS for it to get here!!!!! If only I had an owl...
Aurora xx
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KTO - Jan 5, 2005 1:07 pm (#2306 of 2923)
I would like to see a HBP thread for each chapter, that way no spoilers. I am going to at least try to take my time with reading HBP, one chapter a day so I can enjoy if for as long as possible, I said this about OOTP and was NOT successful. Currently I am rereading, for the first time since being part of this forum and it is a whole new experience, however to make it last, I am forcing myself to read two books inbetween each HP, it is driving me a little mad, but I am hoping that I will end up not having to wait months between OOTP and HBP.
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Monroe - Jan 5, 2005 5:17 pm (#2307 of 2923)
I am new to this forum and am not a speed reader by any means. I like the idea of grouping up some chapters, say 3-5 at a time and after 2 days of blackout, let people decide for themselves if they want to be spoiled by knowing what happens. I mean we are adults and it is our own fault if we look ahead to see.
Monroe
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 5, 2005 6:33 pm (#2308 of 2923)
Steve, Interesting catch on DD. It will be interesting to see. I love the thought of DD as a Prince, but who is the King? I don't think we have met the HBP because that is the pattern.
I hope there is no black out, except a natural one caused by us reading. I agree Monroe, we are responsible for protecting ourselves from looking ahead. LPO
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vball man - Jan 5, 2005 6:43 pm (#2309 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Well, its possible that there is no king. "Prince" is used, not for royalty, but the way Dumbledore used it when he said, "you arrived at Hogwarts, neither as happy nor as well-nourished as I would have liked, perhaps, yet alive and healthy You were not a pampered little prince, but as normal a boy as..."
If Dumbledore was raised with priviledge and found that too much pressure at too young an age, that would explain why Dumbledore says in PS, ""Exactly," said Dumbledore, looking very seriously over the top of his half-moon glasses. "It would be enough to turn any boy's head. Famous before he can walk and talk! Famous for something he won't even remember! Can't you see how much better off he'll be, growing up away from all that until he's ready to take it?"
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 5, 2005 6:49 pm (#2310 of 2923)
I agree vball man. There may not be a king. You give good examples. The royalty may not come from the WW. The person maybe half Muggle royalty. Though I can't see the WW caring about Muggle royalty. LPO
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The giant squid - Jan 5, 2005 6:55 pm (#2311 of 2923)
Those of you asking for separate chapter threads "to avoid spoilers" have failed to realize something: Unless they're titled simply "HBP Ch. 1", "HBP Ch. 2", etc, the titles themselves will contain spoilers.
As for the blackout, I like the idea. We'll all be ignoring our families & friends that week as it is, the added pull of the forum will serve to cut us completely off from the outside world. If there's no forum calling out to us, we might remember to eat occasionally.
--Mike
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 5, 2005 6:57 pm (#2312 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
I see the HBP as champion of causes, not royalty. I think the HBP is Dumbledore. :-)
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Ann - Jan 5, 2005 6:57 pm (#2313 of 2923)
A lot of us think the Half-Blood Prince is a historical character. So there's also the medieval model of a "prince," meaning the ruler of an independent "principality." (Like Machiavelli's "The Prince.") This could be as small as a city state (like a lot in Italy) or as big as England. Queen Elizabeth I refers to herself often as a prince--so in this sense one could even include women.
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Qwaz - Jan 5, 2005 9:27 pm (#2314 of 2923)
I'm with TwinklingBlueEyes as far as "champion of causes" goes (I like that phrase, thank you). Not so sure it's Dumbledore myself though.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 5, 2005 10:31 pm (#2315 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Thank you Qwaz. I think the phrase fits Dumbledore to a tee. Even without knowing his "blood status" we know where he stands on the issues of prejudice and status. He not only champions muggles, but all other "creatures" besides. He realises that similar to the prophesy, one can't live while the other survives. We all share one planet and limited resourses. If not pulling together, all suffer and may not survive. Just as the Fountain of Magical Breathern told a lie, supposing all are in peace and harmony. The Dark side chooses to see things one way, the light, the other. Choices.
With 5 books gone I don't see a new character being the HBP, nor do I see a historical character "coming back to life'", as it were. What I think we will see is the history surrounding Harry and the prophesy and and Dumbledore's "role" in it all. Also consider to Harry, at 15 or 16 vs Dumbledore's 155 +/-, in Harry's eyes Dumbledore IS ancient history. :-)
Sorry if that doesn't make much sense but I'm having a rough night. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
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vball man - Jan 5, 2005 10:50 pm (#2316 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Those of you asking for separate chapter threads "to avoid spoilers" have failed to realize something: Unless they're titled simply "HBP Ch. 1", "HBP Ch. 2", etc, the titles themselves will contain spoilers. - Giant Squid.
I would expect those who name the threads to give them appropriate names.
The best bet would be to name the thread the same as the name of the Chapter that finishes the section.
i.e.,
Riddle House (Must finish Ch. 1 first)
QuidWorldCup (Must finish Ch. 9 first)
The First Task (Must finish Ch. 20 first)
The Pensive (Must finish Ch. 20 first)
I think that JKr named the chapters so that it wouldn't give too much away if you read the Table of Contents.
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 6, 2005 5:54 am (#2317 of 2923)
Apologies if this is the wrong thread for this but.. Anyone in the UK who can get hold of T2, a supplement from The Times newspaper, for today (Thursday) will find an article on Pg23 which might be of interest. It is more of a joke than serious but addresses the theory that Jo will be killing Hagrid off in HBP. I have no ability, I'm afraid, to allow Lexicon members outside of the UK to read this article unless you want a very long post from me with a transcript of it! thanks Kerrie-Louise
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Gerald Costales - Jan 6, 2005 5:59 am (#2318 of 2923)
Monaco is a Principality thus it ruled by His "Serene Highness Prince Rainier III".
Unclear if royalty exists in UK Wizarding World. But let's not forget the rest of the Wizarding World. If an African Wizard country had a Prince, it could open the door for Dean Thomas being the HBP. We don't know who or what Dean's biological father was. (Now, here's the big "if".) IF Dean's father was a KING or PRINCE, wouldn't that make Dean Thomas a "Half-Blood Prince"?
My gut feeling about the HBP is that's it Godric Gryffindor. (Will not rehash my or other arguments that I think support this choice.) My second choice would be that Lion-like character that was described in that excerpt on JKR's website awhile back. ;-) GC
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Qwaz - Jan 6, 2005 9:51 am (#2319 of 2923)
Sign me up Mr.BlueEyes. You present a good arguement, logically.
I actually have a copy of the T2 supplement next to me and pages 23-27 are TV and Radio guides :S I don't see the article of which you speak. I'm going to examine the other supplement the T2 was inside and see if my pages got mixed up or something.
BTW: did you complete the Su-Doku today Kerrie-Louise, I think they're great little puzzles.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 6, 2005 11:26 am (#2320 of 2923)
TBE I respectfully disagree. Every book we get to meet new characters. I am pretty sure the DADA teacher will be new. The titles all have something to do with a person or topic we have met in passing or not at all.
vball, great breakdown. I think that is a good idea. LPO
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Her-melanie - Jan 6, 2005 11:31 am (#2321 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Thanks for everyone's help with my pre-order dilemma; I think I will wait at the bookstore anyway...As for me, I am a serious speed reader but I am giving myself a time limit this time. I don;t want to finish too quickly.
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hellocello3200 - Jan 6, 2005 7:26 pm (#2322 of 2923)
I agree with vball man that naming threads after chapters wouldn't spoil anything. I always glance at the table of contents before I start and guess what's going to happen in them. I don't think isolated chapter titles give much away, just something involved in the chapter usually.
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Ann - Jan 6, 2005 7:38 pm (#2323 of 2923)
I agree with hellocello, chapter titles are quite enigmatic, and JKR's are always so intriguing that they'll just charm anyone who hasn't got there yet.
I fondly remember picking up book one in 1998 or so, reading through the chapter titles and the first few pages and buying the thing instantly.
And *sob* I'll be one of the people who has to avoid reading the spoiler posts--I finished OotP in about 12 hours, but this time I'll be in Cairo, of all places! How annoying! Has anyone got any suggestions about how to get a copy there? Amazon? AUC?
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Hollywand - Jan 6, 2005 8:01 pm (#2324 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Ann, I bet the airport in Cairo will have an English copy for travellers.
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septentrion - Jan 7, 2005 3:40 am (#2325 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Ann, you may find some information if you googled "bookstore cairo". You could find adresses of some bookstores and contact them to know if they'll sell HBP.
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Eliza - Jan 7, 2005 10:53 am (#2326 of 2923)
Since most countries teach English as required learning, it is not unreasonable to think that they would be selling the English version of such a popular series in Cairo. Some of the big chains such as Barnes and Noble, Borders, or Books-a-Million may have a location there and are more likely to carry the book then some of the smaller bookstores because they have less to lose if they don't sell.
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Ann - Jan 7, 2005 11:50 am (#2327 of 2923)
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm sure I'll be able to get a copy there eventually--but I suspect there will be a time lag. But you're all correct; planning ahead might let me get my copy on the 16th.
I just worry about seeing something before I manage to get hold of it: on TV, or an international Newsweek with a cover that says: LUPIN IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE! (or something). That would really be painful.
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KWeldon - Jan 7, 2005 4:02 pm (#2328 of 2923)
I just worry about seeing something before I manage to get hold of it: on TV, or an international Newsweek with a cover that says: LUPIN IS THE HALF-BLOOD PRINCE! (or something). That would really be painful
I would boycott all media, if I were you. Seriously, HP is too big a phenomenon not to hear something about it, and it may even be kind of nebulous, like "shocking ending" that could upset you.
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Saralinda Again - Jan 7, 2005 4:56 pm (#2329 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Heck, in a newsgroup I used to belong to, I got a *spam* email on June 19, 2003, two days before OotP release, that had as its header:
URGENT Harry Potter News! URGENT! Sirius Black dies!
... Which then proceeded in the text to pitch discount rates on Viagara and stuff to me.
[Sigh}
I don't mind spoilers, myself; in fact, sometimes knowing what will happen helps me see the author's craft at work -- and besides, I don't handle suspense very well. :-/
Saralinda
"Consistently guessing wrong about Harry Potter since 2002."
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KWeldon - Jan 7, 2005 9:48 pm (#2330 of 2923)
Saralinda, I would have been SO FURIOUS if that had happened to me!!!!
All, I've been thinking about where things are headed after Book 6 in that you have to figure that at least some of our questions will be answered there. What I mean is, are we going to have less to speculate on after HP6 because some theories will be proven/disproven, or is HP6 going to bring up enough new material to keep up the same amount of discussion? I'd have to say that there's only so much she can leave for Book 7, unless it's length is going to be extraordinary, which means we will have less to discuss/theorize with.
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Harry-ette - Jan 8, 2005 5:10 am (#2331 of 2923)
I'm having a small dilemma. I have pre-ordered HBP from Amazon, but I have decided to quit my job in early summer and go travelling round the States. The plan was to come back to England on the 26th of July. Do you all think I should book an earlier flight back to get the UK copy, or stay in the States and buy a US copy (ending up with two copies of the book)?
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Gerald Costales - Jan 8, 2005 7:39 am (#2332 of 2923)
Buy the American edition.
Given the time and opportunity, I'd like to some day read the British editions of Harry Potter. Part of the fun of reading the Potter series is getting a feel for British life. Besides there are minor differences between the editions that might be fun to read.
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Saralinda Again - Jan 8, 2005 8:19 am (#2333 of 2923)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
KWeldon, I'm positive that we'll have more than enough new stuff to chew on after HBP comes out. We'll also have old stuff to revisit and possibly re-evaluate in light of what we read in Book 6.
In fact, I would not be a bit surprised if there's a mass of new speculation after Book 7. I can see Potterheads happily musing for years to come on what will or will not happen to some character that has survived the series.
(And of course, the fanfic sites will go totally ballistic. I used to believe this would happen only if Harry lives through the whole series, but nowadays I see so many people devoted to utterly to so many almost tangential characters* that I can't see this juggernaut slowing any time soon.)
All great fiction (print or cinematic) keeps your juices flowing long after The End appears on the page/screen. JKR has gone way beyond that point already. I wonder how many young people out there have JKR and her world to thank for the huge uptick in their reading, typing, and writing skills.
Saralinda
"Consistently guessing wrong about Harry Potter since 2002."
* I have a friend who has written for her own satisfaction, not for posting on a fan site, literally hundreds of pages about Dobby and Winky and their future adventures. The only two fanfics I've ever personally bothered to finish are one from Cornelius Fudge's point of view, and one from the viewpoint of the king's knight of Ron's wizard's chess set.
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Solitaire - Jan 8, 2005 10:49 am (#2334 of 2923)
The morning after OotP was released, I turned on my computer, logged onto the Internet, and launched my browser. The teachers.net chatrooms page--which shows who is logged into the chatrooms--came up, as usual. It had a big, ugly surprise ... some inconsiderate chatter had signed in as SiriusBlackDies, or something similar. I was furious! It isn't even a HP room. Imagine being inconsiderate enough to spoil other people's enjoyment, just to prove what a fast reader one is.
My opening page is now the HP Forum. Since we are all fans, I figure the Site Hosts will come up with an appropriate way of "shielding" those among us who wish to (or must) read more slowly from unwanted information--until they're ready ... to paraphrase Albus Dumbledore.
Solitaire
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 8, 2005 11:49 am (#2335 of 2923)
Saralinda and Solitaire I would be furious. I am going to do a media blackout until I'm done with the book.
I am sure we will have lots to talk about after the series is over (I'm trying not to think about that...). I hope Jo does a Harry Potter Encyclopedia. LPO
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Eliza - Jan 8, 2005 12:50 pm (#2336 of 2923)
I was upset enough when my husband asked me "So which character dies?" when I was only about 2 chapters into the book. I think I would have been ready to kill anyone who actually told me the end. My mom and sister both know better. They tend to read faster then me and we communicate where we are by chapter titles before discussing anything.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 8, 2005 1:07 pm (#2337 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I enjoy books more by taking my time and studing the books. Speed reading may be beneficial when studing and needing to process alot of information. But give me a good book(any HP will do), a soft comfortable chair, and some nice serene music on the stereo and I am set for the weekend.
Come on July 16th. Isn't it February yet!
Mikie
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Ann - Jan 8, 2005 1:39 pm (#2338 of 2923)
I think the trick is to assume everything you read is wrong. (Actually, this is not a bad principle for life in general.) I've decided I won't believe anything until I hear it from Jo's own...er...keyboard. After all, the person who signed on as SiriusBlackDies could be having you on! It's just because it turned out to be right that it's annoying.
And, frankly, I think things like who the HBP is and who dies will simply be unavoidable after 3 or 4 days. I was standing on a crowded corner the day before Christmas and I heard someone behind me tell a friend, "Have you heard? Harry 6 comes out July 16!" (It was probably one of you guys.)
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Eliza - Jan 8, 2005 3:07 pm (#2339 of 2923)
Well I am sorry if it was me, I ran around telling anyone that I thought would listen. I was sooooooo excited. I thought I would pop.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 8, 2005 4:33 pm (#2340 of 2923)
I did to Eliza. I keep annoying husband, friends, family, co-workers, students, everyone, with the count down. After all, since I'm a Middle School Teacher Librarian it is part of my job! 188 more days. LPO
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Veritaserum - Jan 9, 2005 10:33 am (#2341 of 2923)
Go Jays!
One of my friend's brother's friend's said to the brother, "I won't tell you who dies, seriously. I'm serious. I won't tell you who dies."
Alternately, it was my own fault for finding out who died in OOP. My stupid curiosity got the best of me and I flipped through to look at all the chapter pictures. Of course, Sirius's death is at the end of a chapter, so I was scarred for the rest of the book.
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Qwaz - Jan 10, 2005 4:32 am (#2342 of 2923)
LoL, One of my friends told me and my sister in a "Tie Shop"
Personally it didn't bother me so much as my sister. In the grand scheme of things the death is quite a small occurance. To Harry it's big, don't get me wrong but as far as my enjoyment of the book goes it didn't lessen it. I just simply put my mindframe into the book and stopped extrapolating.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 10, 2005 5:16 am (#2343 of 2923)
Qwaz; I'm behind you in the queue on that - I was sad at Sirius' sudden and strange demise, and although I didn't want it to happen it obviously needed to because of the impact it will have. Mind you, I was sobbing heartily when I read the bit about Neville's parents in hospital, particularly the bit when (sniff) Neville's mum gives him (weep) a sweet wrapper (sob) and he stuffs it in his pocket (WAAAAHHHH!).
Are we off topic?
Aurora xx
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Eliza - Jan 10, 2005 1:20 pm (#2344 of 2923)
Aurora xx you said"Neville's mum gives him (weep) a sweet wrapper"
In the US copy it says a gum wrapper. Is it different in the UK version?
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The Artful Dodger - Jan 10, 2005 4:05 pm (#2345 of 2923)
My sister also got the "Sirius dies" spoiler, my other sister told her. But, she has no right to complain, because she got the book as a present for her birthday on June 22nd 2003, and she has managed to not read it yet, can you imagine that!?
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 10, 2005 4:22 pm (#2346 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
The Artful Dodger; It must be something to do with our Sisters' being born on June 22nd because my sister flatly outright refuses to read any of them. To her they are just books that have a whole lotta (unwarranted)fuss being made about them.
Lizzy Edited for grammer and spelling
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Qwaz - Jan 10, 2005 4:42 pm (#2347 of 2923)
I think the hype about the books is over the top. I absolutely love them, don't get me wrong. But there are many books out there which deserve even a tenth of the recognition the Harry Potter series does so I sort of understand what your sister means.
What annoys me is when Harry Potter fans wont read anything else ("Can't be as good") - Yeah, given it a chance? or when "serious" readers won't read the Harry Potter books cause they're "for children" and "all hype".
Both these people suffer from lack of experimentation. I have no problem if you've tried something and hated it but at least TRY IT!
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The Artful Dodger - Jan 10, 2005 4:55 pm (#2348 of 2923)
Dizzy Lizzy, but in the case of my sister, she did read the first four! She plans to read OoP soon, though (for about six months now). It's a complete mistery.
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Amilia Smith - Jan 10, 2005 5:11 pm (#2349 of 2923)
My father has yet to read OotP as well. He read the first four just before the first movie came out, but has not yet found the time to read Book 5. So we are all still skirting Sirius's death at our house. On the bright side, we are going on a long car trip next month, and I bought the audio CDs as a Christmas present for myself. :-)
Qwaz, I absolutely agree with everything you said. I was one who avoided Harry for a long time because I thought they were hyped up kids books. And now look at me. Ironically, it is the hype and all of fandom that I am enjoying most now. It is fun to feel part of a worldwide community, and the more I time I spend here, the more I like the books. Does that make any sense?
Mills.
PS. All of you speedreaders: how and where did you learn? Not that I want to whip through HBP, but it would come in dead handy for textbooks. Answer on the chat thread. Thanks. :-)
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Qwaz - Jan 10, 2005 6:26 pm (#2350 of 2923)
There is a lot of hype but I honestly think it's deserved. All I object to slightly is that other books get ignored because of this. This is one of the reason's I'm grateful to Mrs.Rowling herself. She's always encouraging people to read, fullstop. Not just the Potter series but anything and everything.
I'm expecting the media to go into Harry Potter overdrive sometime around the begining of July.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2351 to 2400)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:55 am
Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 10, 2005 8:00 pm (#2351 of 2923)
Yes there is a lot of hype about the books. I believe they help students want to read more. I get questions all the time from students wanting to read a good fantasy book "like Harry Potter". There is a lot of excellent fantasy being published now. I think JKR has to take some of the credit for it. From a professional standpoint I find it disappointing when the books are published over summer vacations. I have several students who will not be able to read HBP until they get to school and can check it out there. I have to admit on a very selfish note I'm glad I have summer break to read and reread the book! LPO
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 10, 2005 8:34 pm (#2352 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Mills, having that feeling of being part of a large group of like minded people certainly makes the world feel smaller and friendlier. The ironic thing about my sister, is that she watches the movies and loves them. Oh well, That's just the way the bikky crumbles...
I too thought some of the hype is way over the top, but as I'm now part of it, I don't really care one way or the other. I know HBP is coming out and that's all I care about Harry Potter wise.
The other thing I like about the simultaneous release of HBP is that we will all be there at the same "time" waiting for the book. Using a little of our imaginations, we can see all of our forumers waiting with us. Wonderful hey!
Lizzy
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 11, 2005 2:50 am (#2353 of 2923)
I think I will buy my copy of Half-Blood Prince on my way home from work. I have to work that day and the idea of having the new Harry Potter in my bag will be torture.
Eliza - is a sweet wrapper the same as a gum wraper or paper? Sort of. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is between candy and gum, but here in the UK gum is a specific type of sweet (candy?) that is resinous - gum like - and can be chewed and used to blow bubbles.
Amilia Smith - how did us speed readers learn? Well many of us taught ourselves when we went to univesirty and college. Its a good way to get through a heavy text book and find the bits that may be worth reading in depth later. Some do it for our jobs, and some just do it. Yes you do miss parts, but not that many more than those who slow read as they may forget something. You can buy books that teach you to do so. But what I did with OotP combined the best of both worlds. I sped read the first time and got the over all picture. I then went through much slower and got the fine detail. Having the wider picture helped me remember the detail. But each to their own.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 11, 2005 4:05 am (#2354 of 2923)
Eliza and Phelim; Just checked my OOTP. The wrapper Alice gives Neville is a Droobles Best Blowing Gum wrapper. I think US folks call Wrigley's type products 'Gum'. We in the UK have 'Chewing Gum' and 'Bubble Gum' (the two being distinctly different). We sometimes call it gum and some of us call it 'chewy' (slang term). Further down after Mrs L tells Neville to put the wrapper in the bin, Neville slipped "the sweet wrapper into his pocket".
This means we were both right.
This brings me onto another thing; If Neville has enough Droobles wrappers to paper his bedroom - who is gving the stuff to the Longbottoms? And why? Maybe it's been impregnated with potion to keep them insane!! I'm off to the Longbottom's Illness thread...
Aurora xx
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Qwaz - Jan 11, 2005 4:07 am (#2355 of 2923)
That's a very mature approach Phelim
As a maths student I don't find i have any set reading and as such i've never learnt to speed read.
As far as the sweet wrapper is concerned i like Phelim summed it up pretty good.
Think i'll get my copy of HBP at midnight and read it with a friend of mine who I know'll be doing the same.
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Her-melanie - Jan 11, 2005 7:00 am (#2356 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I am a VERY fast reader, though I don't "speed read." Meaning, I don't gloss over anything; I read everything thoroughly, but very quickly. I don't do it on purpose, it's just my own reading rate. I actually wish I didn't read quite so quickly because I miss books once I'm done with them. I will not allow myself to finish HBP in one night; I'm going to really savor this one. This is the first time I've ever waited for any of the Potters because I just started reading them last summer. I don't know how all of you who have read since the beginning handled the wait. I would've gone insane by now!
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septentrion - Jan 11, 2005 7:15 am (#2357 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Who said we were sane ?
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Her-melanie - Jan 11, 2005 7:19 am (#2358 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Good point, Serpentrion. I think this particular form of insanity is contagious...
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So Sirius - Jan 11, 2005 7:22 am (#2359 of 2923)
I think the half-blood prince is Mr. Weasley.
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 7:30 am (#2360 of 2923)
Olivia
I thought Ron was a pure-blood?
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Catherine - Jan 11, 2005 8:20 am (#2361 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Yes, the Weasleys are pure-bloods.
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So Sirius - Jan 11, 2005 9:36 am (#2362 of 2923)
Yeah they are, or are they? Not everything is what it seems to be.
Early on, Ron told Harry about a muggle in his family that they don't discuss. Wizards were marrying muggles so they wouldn't die out. Also, it could refer to a prince of people and Mr. Weasley works for muggles and loves them, which can be a clue. Plus, the song, Weasley is our King.
I like the idea of Hagrid, I thought about him early on too, but my guess is Mr. Weasley.
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TGF - Jan 11, 2005 9:40 am (#2363 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
He said Mr. Weasley, not Ron... As in Arthur Weasley, Ron's dad.
We know that they were burned off the Black family tapestry, but the fact that they were on there in the first place suggests that they at least came from a Wizarding background.
Even if I'm mistaken and it's only Molly that's on there, I think it's highly unlikely that the Prince will be Arthur.
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 9:42 am (#2364 of 2923)
Olivia
no they didnt say he was a muggle just that he went to work as an accountant thats why they didnt discuss him. Wasnt Mr Weasley on the Blacks tapestry? 2nd cousins removed or something (or was that Molly, i dont have the book to hand)
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 9:43 am (#2365 of 2923)
Olivia
Oops cross posted with TGF on the tapestry part!
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TGF - Jan 11, 2005 9:46 am (#2366 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I assume that he (or she) was a Squib that decided to just wash his hands of Wizards. Hard to imagine a Wizard choosing to become a Muggle accountant by choice... I mean, if he/she wanted to become an accountant so badly, he/she could've just become an accountant for the Ministry of Magic... Why abandon the Wizarding world?
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 11, 2005 12:25 pm (#2367 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Hey TGF, what's wrong with accountants?
Mikie
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 1:57 pm (#2368 of 2923)
Olivia
I dont know if this has been mentioned before, so i appologise if it has. Does anyone think our potions master may be the half blood prince? I know he was in Slytherin at school and is now the head of Slytherin but we also know you dont have to be pure blood to be in Slytherin. i.e Tom Riddle. Had JKR mentioned if Severus is pure blood or not?
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Eliza - Jan 11, 2005 3:20 pm (#2369 of 2923)
Snuffles- I really hope that Snape is not the half-blood prince. I sorta loath him and and would "vote him off the island" if I had a chance. Sorry to all those who actually like him. I am really into Luna right now and would love to see he related to the half-blood prince. I think she said she was an only child but maybe he is a cousin or something. I mean Jo did say she likes her best right now, So I think she may be an extremely important part of this book.
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Veritaserum - Jan 11, 2005 4:23 pm (#2370 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Has the possibility of Lupin as the HBP been discussed? As quite possiblly my favorite (living) character, I would not mind it being him quite so much. I don't know why, but the term "half-blood prince" still irks me.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 11, 2005 5:43 pm (#2371 of 2923)
I would love for Remus to be the HBP. We don't know much about his heritage. I had never considered Snape. He may be. I agree with Eliza, I hope he isn't. He is not one of my favorite characters. LPO
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The giant squid - Jan 12, 2005 1:05 am (#2372 of 2923)
I, too, hope that Snape isn't the HBP. Not that I have anything against him (no more than any other reasonable person, anyway), I just think the character is strong enough already without adding something book-title-worthy to him. He's better just slinking around in the shadows and being his own mean self. Let someone else have the glory of being the Prince.
--Mike
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hellocello3200 - Jan 12, 2005 4:33 am (#2373 of 2923)
Well, who ever is the half-blood prince might end up having a miserable year in this book. We really don't know what the HBP is or what will happen to him, so I don't "wish" that anybody is him because it might not be a good thing. I do think that both Remus and Snape are strong possibilities.
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Gerald Costales - Jan 12, 2005 7:13 am (#2374 of 2923)
Between Lupin and Snape as the HBP, I'd pick Lupin. JKR has said Lupin is a Half-Blood. Snape I believe is a Pureblood and I don't think Snape will be the HBP. It's not the Half-Blood vs Pureblood thing that has me siding with Lupin though.
Snape has been in the spotlight and doesn't need any more attention. While Lupin as been waiting in the wings. If Lupin returns in the Series in a big part, I hope it's as the HBP. Lupin deserves it and it will validate his place in the Wizarding World. As it is Lupin is an outcast barely earning a living. And royality sometimes makes you more forgivable. A Prince a Werewolf! Maybe we'll see.
These are my current best picks for the HBP
. . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor - Just my gut feeling.
. . . . . . 2. Felix Felicis - I'm assuming this a new character. And the HBP could be a new character.
. . . . . . 3. Remus Lupin and Dean Thomas - Both Half-Bloods. I picture Lupin denied his throne by the Werewolf bite. And Dean's father could have been a Prince.
. . . . . . 4. Hagrid - Not into all that Muggle parent + Wizard/Witch parent = Half-Blood, like Harry & Voldermort. Giant parent + Wizard parent = Half-Blood. By Merlin's beard, Hagrid is a HALF-BLOOD! Big problem: What country is Hagrid a Prince of? But, Hagrid is certainly the Prince of Keys and Grounds at Hogswarts. ;-) GC
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Nicole Bloom - Jan 12, 2005 9:56 am (#2375 of 2923)
I don't know that Hagrid is half-blood as much as a half-BREED. That's why Umbridge was prejudiced to him so much. Hagrid used to be my favorite candidate too, but then the idea of him as a half-breed has gotten stuck in my head and I can't seem to get it out.
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Hollywand - Jan 12, 2005 3:56 pm (#2376 of 2923)
Gryffindor
The term "breeds" generally refers to animals, and whilst Hagrid is a wild guy, and loves animals, most definitely not an animal. It is interesting that racists like the Nazis, for example, referred to other racial groups as "breeds", slaves, too, to dehumanize them. Also, corporations refer to "harvesting" animals like salmon, for example, to migitate the impact fishing is having on the salmon population.
At any rate, not to be a lead zepplin, but Rowling has noted on her wesite that "Hagger" is not the HBP.
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Catherine - Jan 12, 2005 4:17 pm (#2377 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Hollywand,
You are forgiven for being a lead zeppelin if I can be forgiven for asking a question...I have been away from the Forum for a bit, and have looked at JKR's site, but I don't see where she said that Hagrid is not the HBP.
Can you tell us which section? That will teach me to be away from the Forum for a month.
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vball man - Jan 12, 2005 4:47 pm (#2378 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Hollywand, I think you're right. "Half-breed" is a horrible term. I should not be used of people. I think that JKR uses it to show the bigotry of some characters:
Malfoy was gloating at every possible opportunity. "Missing your half-breed pal?"
'Filth! Scum! By-products of dirt and vileness! Half-breeds, mutants, freaks, begone from this place! How dare you befoul the house of my fathers -'
Professor Umbridge talked over him. 'I do not wish to criticise the way things have been run in this school,' she said, an unconvincing smile stretching her wide mouth, 'but you have been exposed to some very irresponsible wizards in this class, very irresponsible indeed - not to mention,' she gave a nasty little laugh, 'extremely dangerous half-breeds.'
Sirius uses it, but it is in a attribution to Umbridge: 'So, what are Umbridge's lessons like?' Sirius interrupted. 'Is she training you all to kill half-breeds?'
Hermione uses it in the same way: That foul, lying, twisting old gargoyle!' stormed Hermione half an hour later, as they made their way back up to the castle through the channels they had made earlier in the snow. 'You see what she's up to? It's her thing about half-breeds all over again...
Umbridge sounds like she may be quoting Ministry laws: That's right!' said Umbridge, in an even higher voice, 'so be very careful! By the laws laid down by the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, any attack by half-breeds such as yourselves on a human -'
So it is bad, but not as bad a "mudblood." I'm not so sure that Hermione, Sirius, or official Ministry laws would use that word.
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Hollywand - Jan 12, 2005 5:08 pm (#2379 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Catherine, great to see you here, we have missed you!!! If you are in for some convoluted theories, please join us on the Alchemy thread sometime, we'd love to have your company. We are down in Hades one step above Trivia and just below the You Know you are .... threads. Sort of the twelve between the eleven and thirteen, if you will...
Alas, earwax, you are asking someone with one of the worst memories for where I saw the information about Hagrid and the Half Blood Prince. I believe it was in reply to a Frequently Asked Questions Poll, and her answer was posted on Mugglenet. I'm sure there will be others more A Plus Type than me who will remember. They may be writing as I post.
Hope to see popping 'round the threads! ;-)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 12, 2005 6:53 pm (#2380 of 2923)
I like the idea of Dean Thomas. Or a historical character. It could relate to CoS with Godric. I hope there is a good DADA teacher. Harry needs all the help he can get. LPO
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Eponine - Jan 12, 2005 8:44 pm (#2381 of 2923)
Catherine, I've been trying to find the quote about Hagrid not being the Half-Blood Prince. Mugglenet seems to have removed it from their news archives, but I found something on it on The Leaky Cauldron
Posted September 15, 2002
"Hagrid not the Half-Blood Prince" Rumor Partially Confirmed
Yesterday Mugglenet posted that two of their readers who attended the Edinburgh Book Festival reported to them that J.K. Rowling revealed in private conversation that Hagrid is not the Half-Blood Prince. We've been able to confirm through a separate source that we trust, that at least one of those readers was definitely at the event.
As for the rest...it's still rumor, but appears to be growing stronger. Mugglenet reports that both readers had separate, UK-based IP addresses and solid accounts of the day's events.
She hasn't publicly denied that he is, but the rumor seems to have valid sources.
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Hollywand - Jan 12, 2005 8:47 pm (#2382 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Eponine, thanks. May I buy you a Wizard Maker at the Leaky Cauldron? That would be a Fire whisky, chased with a Butterbeer....It will bring out the magic in anyone! ;-) Well, maybe not Dudley.....
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Eponine - Jan 12, 2005 9:18 pm (#2383 of 2923)
You're quite welcome, Hollywand. I would love a Wizard Maker.
I'm currently of the opinion that the Half Blood Prince is either someone we haven't met or heard of at all, but it could perhaps be someone who was mentioned in passing. I also think he's an historical character. This opinion will probably change several times before now and July 16.
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Qwaz - Jan 13, 2005 10:22 am (#2384 of 2923)
On a Dean Thomas related note..."I'm half-and-half, me" is Seamus' famous opener.
Personally I don't think it'll be either of them or infact an actual "prince" but there we go.
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TGF - Jan 13, 2005 4:17 pm (#2385 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I don't think JKR would've released as much Dean Thomas information as she did on her website if she planned to give him a major role.
See for yourself: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Why just give us that much information if Dean is about to play a huge role? And besides, she even says 'Now I don't think his history will ever make it into the books.'... so unless this is an elaborate bluff, I doubt Dean Thomas is a Half-Blood Prince of any sort.
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Nearly Legless Mick - Jan 14, 2005 4:09 pm (#2386 of 2923)
I don't expect Hagrid is the HBP, BUT as pointed out above he is a "half-blood" becuase of the human/giant cross-breeding, and I think his mother (Wulfrida?) was a Queen in the Giant world, or at least her particular tribe.
Sorry, I haven't got the books handy to check, but if correct it does make him a possibilty technically, although my gut feeling is the HBP will be a new character, or someone who hasn't featured prominently so far.
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Liz Mann - Jan 14, 2005 4:15 pm (#2387 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I don't remember Hagrid's mother (who's name, by the way, is Fridwulfa, though I'm not sure I spelt it right) ever being called a Queen in the Giant world. But then I haven't read OotP for a while. I'm currently nearing the end of GoF.
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Nearly Legless Mick - Jan 14, 2005 4:23 pm (#2388 of 2923)
Thanks Liz, I'm sure someone will check before long so we can find out if Hagrid's mum was Royalty or not. If she isn't I can't think where I got the idea from.
So it's Fridwulfa not Wulfrida. You can see how I made the mistake, but it's probably enough to get me killed all the same if I'd ever met her. Ouch.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 14, 2005 8:31 pm (#2389 of 2923)
Mick, I agree I don't think we have met the HBP yet or if we have only in passing. The name has probably been mentioned though. I remember in CoS when Arthur was coming back from a raid he was complaining about Mundungus trying to hex him. I hope it isn't Dedalus Diggle, he has come up a few times! What a name for a Prince. Maybe it is Elphias Dodge. LPO
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Wand Maker - Jan 14, 2005 9:09 pm (#2390 of 2923)
I agree too, that we have not yet met the HBP.
For every book, the subject of the title was something completely new, something that was not easily deduced from the title based on knowledge from the previous books.
I don't see Jo switching her modius operandi now.
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Catherine - Jan 15, 2005 6:52 am (#2391 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I don't see Jo switching her modus operandi now.
I generally agree with this statement, although OoP showed JKR changing her M.O. We didn't see a Halloween feast, Christmas was spent outside of Hogwarts, and for the first time, Harry did not attend the Leaving Feast. GoF had no Quidditch House Cup, and was the first time that Harry's "final battle" took place outside of Hogwarts.
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hellocello3200 - Jan 15, 2005 7:01 am (#2392 of 2923)
It's true that the the first three "Final Battles" took place within Hogwarts land, but for all five books, it always happened in a place that Harry hadn't been before. It is true that the battle spills out into the lobby of the MoM, but at this point it is more of a fight between DD and LV.
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Nellie - Jan 16, 2005 7:19 am (#2393 of 2923)
Please hear me out, I am not sure if I have spotted somthing amazing, or whether I am talking complete rubbish, so I'd really like your thoughts.... Before we start I know that the contents of the book I am about to talk about do offend some people, I do NOT want to do that, I ma just repeating what seemed to me to be an amazing coincidence. I read the book out of curiosity not really knowing what it was about, and the actual stuff in it, well who can say what is true and what is myth, but what caught my eye was a reference to Nicolas Flamel on page 431.....
The book is the Da Vinci Code.... The book is supposldy fact intertwined with fictional characters to tell the story
For those who have not read it, it is about the search for the Holy Grail and about the group that protect the contents - The Priory of Sion. Now according to the book, one of the Grand Masters of the Priory of Sion was Nicolas Flamel (1398 -1418). The Holy grail is not supposed to be the chaliace that Christ drank from, but actually the last resting place of Mary Magdalene, burried with her are some documents which pre-date the Bible, which if you believe the book was cooked up by Emperor Constantine some 300 years after Christ's death to try and stop the collapse of Rome due to the rise of Christianity and the slow fall of paganism. The documents are supposed to detail the bloodline of Christ. Now those who know their Bible know that it says that Christ never married, let alone had a child. The Priory of Sion beg to differ, and state that in fact Jesus was married to Mary Magadalene. Quite a statement. The point of this is that Mary was preganant with Christ's child when he was crucified and she escaped to France where she was hidden by the Jewish community. She had a baby girl called Sarah. The interesting thing to me is that Jesus was the King of the Jews, and had lineage back to King Solomon & Mary was also of royal blood, their marriage would have produced a royal baby.
Now, at any one time, so the legend goes, only 4 people know the loaction of the Holy Grail and they will guard it with their lives until the time comes to reveal Jesus's decendents to the world. Aparently this is a very well known theory amongst acedemics, although I knew nothing about the Knghts Templar etc.
In no way am I suggesting that anyone in the HP books are related to Jesus, that's just daft, but I wondered whether we could draw any parallels from the story of the Priory of Sion given that JKR often uses myths and twists them to her own end.
We have a secret society with 4 memebers - Hogwarts founders? A secret Royal bloodline being protected by a secret group - the Half Blood Prince and the Order of the Pheonix?
Does anyone know anything more about these theories which might help us work out whether this is relevant?
Have I lost my way completely or is there some merit in the parallel? I'm not really sure how much merit there is in the Da Vinci Code..... but it is a good read just for the thriller element of the story.
Newton.
P.S. The Priory of Sion also believe very strongly that men and women were equal and do not hold with the idea of orginal sin. They also believe that Christ left instructions with Mary on how to set up his Church and how to take things forward. Given that we have heard so little about Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw, could those houses have a much bigger role to play in the next books?
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Elanor - Jan 16, 2005 7:35 am (#2394 of 2923)
Hi Newton! Well, what I know about the Da Vinci code is that it transformed a lot of historical facts and is not to take literaly, actually from an historical point of view, it is full of nonsenses.
One of the best examples of that is that the real Priory of Sion has nothing to do with what is described in the book. Actually, it was a rather dangerous organisation and his founder was non only an impostor and an inveterate liar, but also someone disreputable who just wanted fame. I have read recently an article in a very serious magazine (Le nouvel observateur) and it is proved that he just made it up the whole thing and it never existed before the 20th century. I'm sorry ! But welcome to the forum (since I don't think I've seen you posting before!)!
PS: I hope I have not offended you, it is not my intention at all! I just wanted to tell you what I knew about it.
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Nellie - Jan 16, 2005 10:26 am (#2395 of 2923)
Hello!
No offence taken. I was just so shocked to see Flamell's name there that I started to wonder a bit. As I didn't know anything about these Holy Grail stories before I read the Da Vinci Code I wanted to know whether anyone knew any more info that might clarify things.
I guess you've helped me there!
Thanks! Newton
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Elanor - Jan 16, 2005 1:58 pm (#2396 of 2923)
You're welcome! If you want more details about Nicolas Flamel, check here Flamel or the alchemy thread, where Flamel has been discussed a lot (try the "search" function, it will help you).
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The giant squid - Jan 18, 2005 12:36 am (#2397 of 2923)
But, Hagrid is certainly the Prince of Keys and Grounds at Hogswarts.--Gerald Costales
Sorry for going back a couple days, but I've seen this statement a couple times since the title was announced. In my copy of SS, Hagrid is referred to as the "Keeper of keys and grounds at Hogwarts". Is this translated differently in some editions? I remember a thread a while back discussing the use of the word "keeper" in the books, and never saw it referred to as a synonym for prince.
Again, not saying anything against Gerald specifically, he just happened to be the most recent poster to use this.
--Mike
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Gerald Costales - Jan 18, 2005 7:16 am (#2398 of 2923)
Re: Hagrid a Prince
Hagrid is no more a "Prince" as Weasley is our "King".
I've taken a non-literal use of Prince. Also, my point is that Hagrid is a "Half-Blood" not a "Half-breed". (So, still a possible candidate for the Half-Blood Prince.)
July 16th will settle who is the real Half-Blood Prince. But until then let's post. ;-) GC
PS Where I live in the Metro LA area, we have "Paul the King of Big Screen (TV's)", doing commericals on the television. ;-0 GC
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frogface - Jan 18, 2005 8:51 am (#2399 of 2923)
I hadn't considered the idea until today, but after reading that some people suspect that Godric Gryffindor might be the Half-Blood Prince, or have some kind of relation to the title, the idea has really grown on me. This is mainly because of CoS, which is where the history of Hogwarts is really introduced in proper detail. Obviously the plot concentrates alot of Salazar Slytherin but Godric Gryindor has quite an important part to play through Fawkes, the sorting hat and the sword. As you may know, HBP was the original title for CoS, so maybe there was even more history in the plot which JKR decided to remove because it was too early on in the series to reveal that much information. I also wondered if maybe we don't meet the HBP at all, that maybe it is some kind of false prophecy that holds the key to winning the war or destroying Voldemort for good or something, maybe it is just a red-herring? After all JKR has stated that the HBP is an important part of book six, but it is not the only part. Sorry if i'm rabbling here, these are really organised thoughts! Just random speculation! xxxkieranxxx
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:09 am (#2400 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 18, 2005 8:11 am
Hello all, I think Ron is a likely canadate for the Half-Blood Prince because he is defininitly half blooded "The weasleys are one of the most unpure blooded family of wizards" and jk sometimes likes to take the attention off of harry with ron doing something important. (Being attacked by Sirrius, becoming prefect, etc.) Just a thought, tell me what you think though! -Thomas
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Yes there is a lot of hype about the books. I believe they help students want to read more. I get questions all the time from students wanting to read a good fantasy book "like Harry Potter". There is a lot of excellent fantasy being published now. I think JKR has to take some of the credit for it. From a professional standpoint I find it disappointing when the books are published over summer vacations. I have several students who will not be able to read HBP until they get to school and can check it out there. I have to admit on a very selfish note I'm glad I have summer break to read and reread the book! LPO
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 10, 2005 8:34 pm (#2352 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
Mills, having that feeling of being part of a large group of like minded people certainly makes the world feel smaller and friendlier. The ironic thing about my sister, is that she watches the movies and loves them. Oh well, That's just the way the bikky crumbles...
I too thought some of the hype is way over the top, but as I'm now part of it, I don't really care one way or the other. I know HBP is coming out and that's all I care about Harry Potter wise.
The other thing I like about the simultaneous release of HBP is that we will all be there at the same "time" waiting for the book. Using a little of our imaginations, we can see all of our forumers waiting with us. Wonderful hey!
Lizzy
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 11, 2005 2:50 am (#2353 of 2923)
I think I will buy my copy of Half-Blood Prince on my way home from work. I have to work that day and the idea of having the new Harry Potter in my bag will be torture.
Eliza - is a sweet wrapper the same as a gum wraper or paper? Sort of. I'm not exactly sure what the difference is between candy and gum, but here in the UK gum is a specific type of sweet (candy?) that is resinous - gum like - and can be chewed and used to blow bubbles.
Amilia Smith - how did us speed readers learn? Well many of us taught ourselves when we went to univesirty and college. Its a good way to get through a heavy text book and find the bits that may be worth reading in depth later. Some do it for our jobs, and some just do it. Yes you do miss parts, but not that many more than those who slow read as they may forget something. You can buy books that teach you to do so. But what I did with OotP combined the best of both worlds. I sped read the first time and got the over all picture. I then went through much slower and got the fine detail. Having the wider picture helped me remember the detail. But each to their own.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jan 11, 2005 4:05 am (#2354 of 2923)
Eliza and Phelim; Just checked my OOTP. The wrapper Alice gives Neville is a Droobles Best Blowing Gum wrapper. I think US folks call Wrigley's type products 'Gum'. We in the UK have 'Chewing Gum' and 'Bubble Gum' (the two being distinctly different). We sometimes call it gum and some of us call it 'chewy' (slang term). Further down after Mrs L tells Neville to put the wrapper in the bin, Neville slipped "the sweet wrapper into his pocket".
This means we were both right.
This brings me onto another thing; If Neville has enough Droobles wrappers to paper his bedroom - who is gving the stuff to the Longbottoms? And why? Maybe it's been impregnated with potion to keep them insane!! I'm off to the Longbottom's Illness thread...
Aurora xx
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Qwaz - Jan 11, 2005 4:07 am (#2355 of 2923)
That's a very mature approach Phelim
As a maths student I don't find i have any set reading and as such i've never learnt to speed read.
As far as the sweet wrapper is concerned i like Phelim summed it up pretty good.
Think i'll get my copy of HBP at midnight and read it with a friend of mine who I know'll be doing the same.
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Her-melanie - Jan 11, 2005 7:00 am (#2356 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I am a VERY fast reader, though I don't "speed read." Meaning, I don't gloss over anything; I read everything thoroughly, but very quickly. I don't do it on purpose, it's just my own reading rate. I actually wish I didn't read quite so quickly because I miss books once I'm done with them. I will not allow myself to finish HBP in one night; I'm going to really savor this one. This is the first time I've ever waited for any of the Potters because I just started reading them last summer. I don't know how all of you who have read since the beginning handled the wait. I would've gone insane by now!
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septentrion - Jan 11, 2005 7:15 am (#2357 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Who said we were sane ?
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Her-melanie - Jan 11, 2005 7:19 am (#2358 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Good point, Serpentrion. I think this particular form of insanity is contagious...
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So Sirius - Jan 11, 2005 7:22 am (#2359 of 2923)
I think the half-blood prince is Mr. Weasley.
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 7:30 am (#2360 of 2923)
Olivia
I thought Ron was a pure-blood?
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Catherine - Jan 11, 2005 8:20 am (#2361 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Yes, the Weasleys are pure-bloods.
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So Sirius - Jan 11, 2005 9:36 am (#2362 of 2923)
Yeah they are, or are they? Not everything is what it seems to be.
Early on, Ron told Harry about a muggle in his family that they don't discuss. Wizards were marrying muggles so they wouldn't die out. Also, it could refer to a prince of people and Mr. Weasley works for muggles and loves them, which can be a clue. Plus, the song, Weasley is our King.
I like the idea of Hagrid, I thought about him early on too, but my guess is Mr. Weasley.
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TGF - Jan 11, 2005 9:40 am (#2363 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
He said Mr. Weasley, not Ron... As in Arthur Weasley, Ron's dad.
We know that they were burned off the Black family tapestry, but the fact that they were on there in the first place suggests that they at least came from a Wizarding background.
Even if I'm mistaken and it's only Molly that's on there, I think it's highly unlikely that the Prince will be Arthur.
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 9:42 am (#2364 of 2923)
Olivia
no they didnt say he was a muggle just that he went to work as an accountant thats why they didnt discuss him. Wasnt Mr Weasley on the Blacks tapestry? 2nd cousins removed or something (or was that Molly, i dont have the book to hand)
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 9:43 am (#2365 of 2923)
Olivia
Oops cross posted with TGF on the tapestry part!
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TGF - Jan 11, 2005 9:46 am (#2366 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I assume that he (or she) was a Squib that decided to just wash his hands of Wizards. Hard to imagine a Wizard choosing to become a Muggle accountant by choice... I mean, if he/she wanted to become an accountant so badly, he/she could've just become an accountant for the Ministry of Magic... Why abandon the Wizarding world?
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 11, 2005 12:25 pm (#2367 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Hey TGF, what's wrong with accountants?
Mikie
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Snuffles - Jan 11, 2005 1:57 pm (#2368 of 2923)
Olivia
I dont know if this has been mentioned before, so i appologise if it has. Does anyone think our potions master may be the half blood prince? I know he was in Slytherin at school and is now the head of Slytherin but we also know you dont have to be pure blood to be in Slytherin. i.e Tom Riddle. Had JKR mentioned if Severus is pure blood or not?
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Eliza - Jan 11, 2005 3:20 pm (#2369 of 2923)
Snuffles- I really hope that Snape is not the half-blood prince. I sorta loath him and and would "vote him off the island" if I had a chance. Sorry to all those who actually like him. I am really into Luna right now and would love to see he related to the half-blood prince. I think she said she was an only child but maybe he is a cousin or something. I mean Jo did say she likes her best right now, So I think she may be an extremely important part of this book.
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Veritaserum - Jan 11, 2005 4:23 pm (#2370 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Has the possibility of Lupin as the HBP been discussed? As quite possiblly my favorite (living) character, I would not mind it being him quite so much. I don't know why, but the term "half-blood prince" still irks me.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 11, 2005 5:43 pm (#2371 of 2923)
I would love for Remus to be the HBP. We don't know much about his heritage. I had never considered Snape. He may be. I agree with Eliza, I hope he isn't. He is not one of my favorite characters. LPO
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The giant squid - Jan 12, 2005 1:05 am (#2372 of 2923)
I, too, hope that Snape isn't the HBP. Not that I have anything against him (no more than any other reasonable person, anyway), I just think the character is strong enough already without adding something book-title-worthy to him. He's better just slinking around in the shadows and being his own mean self. Let someone else have the glory of being the Prince.
--Mike
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hellocello3200 - Jan 12, 2005 4:33 am (#2373 of 2923)
Well, who ever is the half-blood prince might end up having a miserable year in this book. We really don't know what the HBP is or what will happen to him, so I don't "wish" that anybody is him because it might not be a good thing. I do think that both Remus and Snape are strong possibilities.
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Gerald Costales - Jan 12, 2005 7:13 am (#2374 of 2923)
Between Lupin and Snape as the HBP, I'd pick Lupin. JKR has said Lupin is a Half-Blood. Snape I believe is a Pureblood and I don't think Snape will be the HBP. It's not the Half-Blood vs Pureblood thing that has me siding with Lupin though.
Snape has been in the spotlight and doesn't need any more attention. While Lupin as been waiting in the wings. If Lupin returns in the Series in a big part, I hope it's as the HBP. Lupin deserves it and it will validate his place in the Wizarding World. As it is Lupin is an outcast barely earning a living. And royality sometimes makes you more forgivable. A Prince a Werewolf! Maybe we'll see.
These are my current best picks for the HBP
. . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor - Just my gut feeling.
. . . . . . 2. Felix Felicis - I'm assuming this a new character. And the HBP could be a new character.
. . . . . . 3. Remus Lupin and Dean Thomas - Both Half-Bloods. I picture Lupin denied his throne by the Werewolf bite. And Dean's father could have been a Prince.
. . . . . . 4. Hagrid - Not into all that Muggle parent + Wizard/Witch parent = Half-Blood, like Harry & Voldermort. Giant parent + Wizard parent = Half-Blood. By Merlin's beard, Hagrid is a HALF-BLOOD! Big problem: What country is Hagrid a Prince of? But, Hagrid is certainly the Prince of Keys and Grounds at Hogswarts. ;-) GC
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Nicole Bloom - Jan 12, 2005 9:56 am (#2375 of 2923)
I don't know that Hagrid is half-blood as much as a half-BREED. That's why Umbridge was prejudiced to him so much. Hagrid used to be my favorite candidate too, but then the idea of him as a half-breed has gotten stuck in my head and I can't seem to get it out.
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Hollywand - Jan 12, 2005 3:56 pm (#2376 of 2923)
Gryffindor
The term "breeds" generally refers to animals, and whilst Hagrid is a wild guy, and loves animals, most definitely not an animal. It is interesting that racists like the Nazis, for example, referred to other racial groups as "breeds", slaves, too, to dehumanize them. Also, corporations refer to "harvesting" animals like salmon, for example, to migitate the impact fishing is having on the salmon population.
At any rate, not to be a lead zepplin, but Rowling has noted on her wesite that "Hagger" is not the HBP.
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Catherine - Jan 12, 2005 4:17 pm (#2377 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Hollywand,
You are forgiven for being a lead zeppelin if I can be forgiven for asking a question...I have been away from the Forum for a bit, and have looked at JKR's site, but I don't see where she said that Hagrid is not the HBP.
Can you tell us which section? That will teach me to be away from the Forum for a month.
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vball man - Jan 12, 2005 4:47 pm (#2378 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Hollywand, I think you're right. "Half-breed" is a horrible term. I should not be used of people. I think that JKR uses it to show the bigotry of some characters:
Malfoy was gloating at every possible opportunity. "Missing your half-breed pal?"
'Filth! Scum! By-products of dirt and vileness! Half-breeds, mutants, freaks, begone from this place! How dare you befoul the house of my fathers -'
Professor Umbridge talked over him. 'I do not wish to criticise the way things have been run in this school,' she said, an unconvincing smile stretching her wide mouth, 'but you have been exposed to some very irresponsible wizards in this class, very irresponsible indeed - not to mention,' she gave a nasty little laugh, 'extremely dangerous half-breeds.'
Sirius uses it, but it is in a attribution to Umbridge: 'So, what are Umbridge's lessons like?' Sirius interrupted. 'Is she training you all to kill half-breeds?'
Hermione uses it in the same way: That foul, lying, twisting old gargoyle!' stormed Hermione half an hour later, as they made their way back up to the castle through the channels they had made earlier in the snow. 'You see what she's up to? It's her thing about half-breeds all over again...
Umbridge sounds like she may be quoting Ministry laws: That's right!' said Umbridge, in an even higher voice, 'so be very careful! By the laws laid down by the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, any attack by half-breeds such as yourselves on a human -'
So it is bad, but not as bad a "mudblood." I'm not so sure that Hermione, Sirius, or official Ministry laws would use that word.
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Hollywand - Jan 12, 2005 5:08 pm (#2379 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Catherine, great to see you here, we have missed you!!! If you are in for some convoluted theories, please join us on the Alchemy thread sometime, we'd love to have your company. We are down in Hades one step above Trivia and just below the You Know you are .... threads. Sort of the twelve between the eleven and thirteen, if you will...
Alas, earwax, you are asking someone with one of the worst memories for where I saw the information about Hagrid and the Half Blood Prince. I believe it was in reply to a Frequently Asked Questions Poll, and her answer was posted on Mugglenet. I'm sure there will be others more A Plus Type than me who will remember. They may be writing as I post.
Hope to see popping 'round the threads! ;-)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 12, 2005 6:53 pm (#2380 of 2923)
I like the idea of Dean Thomas. Or a historical character. It could relate to CoS with Godric. I hope there is a good DADA teacher. Harry needs all the help he can get. LPO
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Eponine - Jan 12, 2005 8:44 pm (#2381 of 2923)
Catherine, I've been trying to find the quote about Hagrid not being the Half-Blood Prince. Mugglenet seems to have removed it from their news archives, but I found something on it on The Leaky Cauldron
Posted September 15, 2002
"Hagrid not the Half-Blood Prince" Rumor Partially Confirmed
Yesterday Mugglenet posted that two of their readers who attended the Edinburgh Book Festival reported to them that J.K. Rowling revealed in private conversation that Hagrid is not the Half-Blood Prince. We've been able to confirm through a separate source that we trust, that at least one of those readers was definitely at the event.
As for the rest...it's still rumor, but appears to be growing stronger. Mugglenet reports that both readers had separate, UK-based IP addresses and solid accounts of the day's events.
She hasn't publicly denied that he is, but the rumor seems to have valid sources.
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Hollywand - Jan 12, 2005 8:47 pm (#2382 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Eponine, thanks. May I buy you a Wizard Maker at the Leaky Cauldron? That would be a Fire whisky, chased with a Butterbeer....It will bring out the magic in anyone! ;-) Well, maybe not Dudley.....
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Eponine - Jan 12, 2005 9:18 pm (#2383 of 2923)
You're quite welcome, Hollywand. I would love a Wizard Maker.
I'm currently of the opinion that the Half Blood Prince is either someone we haven't met or heard of at all, but it could perhaps be someone who was mentioned in passing. I also think he's an historical character. This opinion will probably change several times before now and July 16.
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Qwaz - Jan 13, 2005 10:22 am (#2384 of 2923)
On a Dean Thomas related note..."I'm half-and-half, me" is Seamus' famous opener.
Personally I don't think it'll be either of them or infact an actual "prince" but there we go.
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TGF - Jan 13, 2005 4:17 pm (#2385 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I don't think JKR would've released as much Dean Thomas information as she did on her website if she planned to give him a major role.
See for yourself: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Why just give us that much information if Dean is about to play a huge role? And besides, she even says 'Now I don't think his history will ever make it into the books.'... so unless this is an elaborate bluff, I doubt Dean Thomas is a Half-Blood Prince of any sort.
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Nearly Legless Mick - Jan 14, 2005 4:09 pm (#2386 of 2923)
I don't expect Hagrid is the HBP, BUT as pointed out above he is a "half-blood" becuase of the human/giant cross-breeding, and I think his mother (Wulfrida?) was a Queen in the Giant world, or at least her particular tribe.
Sorry, I haven't got the books handy to check, but if correct it does make him a possibilty technically, although my gut feeling is the HBP will be a new character, or someone who hasn't featured prominently so far.
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Liz Mann - Jan 14, 2005 4:15 pm (#2387 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I don't remember Hagrid's mother (who's name, by the way, is Fridwulfa, though I'm not sure I spelt it right) ever being called a Queen in the Giant world. But then I haven't read OotP for a while. I'm currently nearing the end of GoF.
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Nearly Legless Mick - Jan 14, 2005 4:23 pm (#2388 of 2923)
Thanks Liz, I'm sure someone will check before long so we can find out if Hagrid's mum was Royalty or not. If she isn't I can't think where I got the idea from.
So it's Fridwulfa not Wulfrida. You can see how I made the mistake, but it's probably enough to get me killed all the same if I'd ever met her. Ouch.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 14, 2005 8:31 pm (#2389 of 2923)
Mick, I agree I don't think we have met the HBP yet or if we have only in passing. The name has probably been mentioned though. I remember in CoS when Arthur was coming back from a raid he was complaining about Mundungus trying to hex him. I hope it isn't Dedalus Diggle, he has come up a few times! What a name for a Prince. Maybe it is Elphias Dodge. LPO
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Wand Maker - Jan 14, 2005 9:09 pm (#2390 of 2923)
I agree too, that we have not yet met the HBP.
For every book, the subject of the title was something completely new, something that was not easily deduced from the title based on knowledge from the previous books.
I don't see Jo switching her modius operandi now.
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Catherine - Jan 15, 2005 6:52 am (#2391 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I don't see Jo switching her modus operandi now.
I generally agree with this statement, although OoP showed JKR changing her M.O. We didn't see a Halloween feast, Christmas was spent outside of Hogwarts, and for the first time, Harry did not attend the Leaving Feast. GoF had no Quidditch House Cup, and was the first time that Harry's "final battle" took place outside of Hogwarts.
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hellocello3200 - Jan 15, 2005 7:01 am (#2392 of 2923)
It's true that the the first three "Final Battles" took place within Hogwarts land, but for all five books, it always happened in a place that Harry hadn't been before. It is true that the battle spills out into the lobby of the MoM, but at this point it is more of a fight between DD and LV.
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Nellie - Jan 16, 2005 7:19 am (#2393 of 2923)
Please hear me out, I am not sure if I have spotted somthing amazing, or whether I am talking complete rubbish, so I'd really like your thoughts.... Before we start I know that the contents of the book I am about to talk about do offend some people, I do NOT want to do that, I ma just repeating what seemed to me to be an amazing coincidence. I read the book out of curiosity not really knowing what it was about, and the actual stuff in it, well who can say what is true and what is myth, but what caught my eye was a reference to Nicolas Flamel on page 431.....
The book is the Da Vinci Code.... The book is supposldy fact intertwined with fictional characters to tell the story
For those who have not read it, it is about the search for the Holy Grail and about the group that protect the contents - The Priory of Sion. Now according to the book, one of the Grand Masters of the Priory of Sion was Nicolas Flamel (1398 -1418). The Holy grail is not supposed to be the chaliace that Christ drank from, but actually the last resting place of Mary Magdalene, burried with her are some documents which pre-date the Bible, which if you believe the book was cooked up by Emperor Constantine some 300 years after Christ's death to try and stop the collapse of Rome due to the rise of Christianity and the slow fall of paganism. The documents are supposed to detail the bloodline of Christ. Now those who know their Bible know that it says that Christ never married, let alone had a child. The Priory of Sion beg to differ, and state that in fact Jesus was married to Mary Magadalene. Quite a statement. The point of this is that Mary was preganant with Christ's child when he was crucified and she escaped to France where she was hidden by the Jewish community. She had a baby girl called Sarah. The interesting thing to me is that Jesus was the King of the Jews, and had lineage back to King Solomon & Mary was also of royal blood, their marriage would have produced a royal baby.
Now, at any one time, so the legend goes, only 4 people know the loaction of the Holy Grail and they will guard it with their lives until the time comes to reveal Jesus's decendents to the world. Aparently this is a very well known theory amongst acedemics, although I knew nothing about the Knghts Templar etc.
In no way am I suggesting that anyone in the HP books are related to Jesus, that's just daft, but I wondered whether we could draw any parallels from the story of the Priory of Sion given that JKR often uses myths and twists them to her own end.
We have a secret society with 4 memebers - Hogwarts founders? A secret Royal bloodline being protected by a secret group - the Half Blood Prince and the Order of the Pheonix?
Does anyone know anything more about these theories which might help us work out whether this is relevant?
Have I lost my way completely or is there some merit in the parallel? I'm not really sure how much merit there is in the Da Vinci Code..... but it is a good read just for the thriller element of the story.
Newton.
P.S. The Priory of Sion also believe very strongly that men and women were equal and do not hold with the idea of orginal sin. They also believe that Christ left instructions with Mary on how to set up his Church and how to take things forward. Given that we have heard so little about Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw, could those houses have a much bigger role to play in the next books?
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Elanor - Jan 16, 2005 7:35 am (#2394 of 2923)
Hi Newton! Well, what I know about the Da Vinci code is that it transformed a lot of historical facts and is not to take literaly, actually from an historical point of view, it is full of nonsenses.
One of the best examples of that is that the real Priory of Sion has nothing to do with what is described in the book. Actually, it was a rather dangerous organisation and his founder was non only an impostor and an inveterate liar, but also someone disreputable who just wanted fame. I have read recently an article in a very serious magazine (Le nouvel observateur) and it is proved that he just made it up the whole thing and it never existed before the 20th century. I'm sorry ! But welcome to the forum (since I don't think I've seen you posting before!)!
PS: I hope I have not offended you, it is not my intention at all! I just wanted to tell you what I knew about it.
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Nellie - Jan 16, 2005 10:26 am (#2395 of 2923)
Hello!
No offence taken. I was just so shocked to see Flamell's name there that I started to wonder a bit. As I didn't know anything about these Holy Grail stories before I read the Da Vinci Code I wanted to know whether anyone knew any more info that might clarify things.
I guess you've helped me there!
Thanks! Newton
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Elanor - Jan 16, 2005 1:58 pm (#2396 of 2923)
You're welcome! If you want more details about Nicolas Flamel, check here Flamel or the alchemy thread, where Flamel has been discussed a lot (try the "search" function, it will help you).
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The giant squid - Jan 18, 2005 12:36 am (#2397 of 2923)
But, Hagrid is certainly the Prince of Keys and Grounds at Hogswarts.--Gerald Costales
Sorry for going back a couple days, but I've seen this statement a couple times since the title was announced. In my copy of SS, Hagrid is referred to as the "Keeper of keys and grounds at Hogwarts". Is this translated differently in some editions? I remember a thread a while back discussing the use of the word "keeper" in the books, and never saw it referred to as a synonym for prince.
Again, not saying anything against Gerald specifically, he just happened to be the most recent poster to use this.
--Mike
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Gerald Costales - Jan 18, 2005 7:16 am (#2398 of 2923)
Re: Hagrid a Prince
Hagrid is no more a "Prince" as Weasley is our "King".
I've taken a non-literal use of Prince. Also, my point is that Hagrid is a "Half-Blood" not a "Half-breed". (So, still a possible candidate for the Half-Blood Prince.)
July 16th will settle who is the real Half-Blood Prince. But until then let's post. ;-) GC
PS Where I live in the Metro LA area, we have "Paul the King of Big Screen (TV's)", doing commericals on the television. ;-0 GC
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frogface - Jan 18, 2005 8:51 am (#2399 of 2923)
I hadn't considered the idea until today, but after reading that some people suspect that Godric Gryffindor might be the Half-Blood Prince, or have some kind of relation to the title, the idea has really grown on me. This is mainly because of CoS, which is where the history of Hogwarts is really introduced in proper detail. Obviously the plot concentrates alot of Salazar Slytherin but Godric Gryindor has quite an important part to play through Fawkes, the sorting hat and the sword. As you may know, HBP was the original title for CoS, so maybe there was even more history in the plot which JKR decided to remove because it was too early on in the series to reveal that much information. I also wondered if maybe we don't meet the HBP at all, that maybe it is some kind of false prophecy that holds the key to winning the war or destroying Voldemort for good or something, maybe it is just a red-herring? After all JKR has stated that the HBP is an important part of book six, but it is not the only part. Sorry if i'm rabbling here, these are really organised thoughts! Just random speculation! xxxkieranxxx
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:09 am (#2400 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 18, 2005 8:11 am
Hello all, I think Ron is a likely canadate for the Half-Blood Prince because he is defininitly half blooded "The weasleys are one of the most unpure blooded family of wizards" and jk sometimes likes to take the attention off of harry with ron doing something important. (Being attacked by Sirrius, becoming prefect, etc.) Just a thought, tell me what you think though! -Thomas
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2401 to 2450)
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:20 am (#2401 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 18, 2005 8:25 am
Actually on second thought he is not the best canadate... Seeing how the 2nd book was almost called The Half Blood Prince i doubt JK would make Ron that important so early....We should have a list of possible people for the HBP!
Possible HBPs
Harry = No - Because JK Specifically said he was not.
Voldemort = No - Because JK Specifically said he was not.
Ron = Possible - But not likely, is halfblooded...but thats about it
Hermione = No - Because she's a girl!
Neville = Possible - Is half blooded i think?
Cedric Diggory = No - Lol He's Dead!
Godric Griffindor = Possible - Is he half blooded? Cant remember
Sir Nicholas DeMimsey Porpington Aka: Nearly Headless Nick = Possible
Malfoy = No - I'd think not! Him a Prince? As if! Pure Blooded anyway.
etc....
Help me add to it please! Thanks
-Thomas
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Eponine - Jan 18, 2005 9:24 am (#2402 of 2923)
The Weasleys are pure-bloods. From CoS UK paperback p. 247 "The Weasleys are one of our most prominent pure-blood families."
From OotP UK hardback p. 105 "The pure-blood families are all interrelated...Molly and I are cousins by marriage and Arthur's something like my second cousin once removed. But there's no point looking fo rthem on here - if ever a family was a bunch of blood traitors it's the Weasleys."
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Catherine - Jan 18, 2005 9:26 am (#2403 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Hello all, I think Ron is a likely canadate for the Half-Blood Prince because he is defininitly half blooded "The weasleys are one of the most unpure blooded family of wizards" and jk sometimes likes to take the attention off of harry with ron do--Thomas Phifer
Thomas, I think you are mistaken. Ron and his family are pure-blood wizards.
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Snuffles - Jan 18, 2005 9:27 am (#2404 of 2923)
Olivia
Neville is also pure blood.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:27 am (#2405 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
So that means the weasly's are NOT pure right? If "there were no such blood traitors as the weasley's" then that means they have bred with muggles! Correct me if im wrong..? -Thomas
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Ainsley Black - Jan 18, 2005 9:29 am (#2406 of 2923)
Thomas Both Ron and Nevil are actually Pureblooded i believe so that's two less for us to think about unless JK has taken an non-literal meaning of Prince.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:29 am (#2407 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
oh my bad.. I am ashamed! i forgot they WERE purebloods! But why does malfoy and his family hate them so?
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Catherine - Jan 18, 2005 9:30 am (#2408 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Thomas,
It has been stated that the Weasleys are pure-blood. They are considered "blood traitors" because they don't seem to hold that pure-bloodedness makes them superior to other wizards. They associate with people who are not pure-blood, and Arthur is considered to lack "proper wizarding pride."
I hope this clears up any confusion.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:30 am (#2409 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Its because they associate with unpure wizards right? oh ok i got it now.
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Ainsley Black - Jan 18, 2005 9:31 am (#2410 of 2923)
Because they, like DD, like Muggles and Half-bloods
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:31 am (#2411 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 18, 2005 8:33 am
So is there such a list going yet? I have just started here so im sorry if thats a dumb question....
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:38 am (#2412 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
I think by process of elimation we can get very close to who its gonna be. Plus there is a 50%-50% chance the HPB is a new charactor or if its one we already know right? So if we narrow it down from all the ones we know, that will still only be a 50% possibility of it being correct depending on how many we narrow it down to and the "strong" assumptions on some rather than others. The not so strong can be at the bottom and the more likley at the top. Like a top Ten list for possible matches of the HBP!
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:39 am (#2413 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
k ill be back later to read your responses sorry if my ideas are stupid! -Thomas
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Catherine - Jan 18, 2005 9:40 am (#2414 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Welcome to the Forum, Thomas, since you said that you are new.
I encourage you to try the "Search" function to find specific information. You should also know that you have 30 minutes to edit your post, so that gives you time to add to your original post if you have a new question without posting several times in a row.
It's also helpful to use the "Edit" feature in order to make sure that your post has the word "I" capitalized and that you capitalize the first letters of your sentences.
Good luck.
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Denise P. - Jan 18, 2005 9:40 am (#2415 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
I think there is also the fact that the Weasley's don't exactly hide the fact that they have a few squibs and muggles on down in the family tree. As Ron said in CoS...
Most wizards these days are half-blood anyway. If we hadn't married Muggles we'd've died out.
I think the Malfoys and other families obsessed with being pure would rather their lips fall off than ever admit that an ancestor ever lowered themselves to marry a Muggle.
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Eponine - Jan 18, 2005 9:41 am (#2416 of 2923)
Thomas Phifer, did you know that you can edit your posts up to 30 minutes after you first post them? It's helpful so you don't have multiple posts.
Welcome to the forum.
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vball man - Jan 18, 2005 9:44 am (#2417 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Add Dumbledore.
Add Unknown.
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TGF - Jan 18, 2005 12:31 pm (#2418 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Neville is a Pure-Blood (both his parents were aurors, and Dumbledore explicitly defined Neville as a Pure-Blood in his conversation with Harry at the end of Book 5)
I think that if Dumbledore were Half-Blood, we would've heard of it. There have been many occasions where Death Eaters have gone on about 'Mudblood loving ways' or whatnot... Don't you think if he was a Half-Blood there might have been a Death Eater or two saying 'Damn that filthy Half-Blood!' here and there?
I really can't think of anyone else at Hogwarts who can claim the title... Unless its a minor character who's going to get a lot more development... like, sure, it COULD be Micheal Corner or Roger Davies or Jack Sloper or whatnot, but if it is there's no way we can know standing here.
Random musing: Is Snape most definetly pure blood?
Though really: Maybe the whole Prince thing is really just incidental to the plot anyway, the way the Goblet of Fire was. The title doesn't *necessarily* mean that for the whole book, Harry is going to be dealing with Princes.
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KTO - Jan 18, 2005 1:28 pm (#2419 of 2923)
In COS Neville says his family thought he was all muggle for ages, not a squib! I think it will be Neville.
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frogface - Jan 18, 2005 2:27 pm (#2420 of 2923)
Its actually in PS/SS that Neville makes that comment, and I think he said that because a) JKR hadn't come up with the term 'squib' yet, or b) because Neville himself did not know the term. Neville's Parents are both Wizards, as is his Grandmother, so I always assumed he was pure blood, although I could be wrong. To my mind the list of "suspects" so far is
1. Godric Gryfindor 2. Dean Thomas 3. Seamus Finnigan 4. Hagrid (?) 5. Dumbledore (?) 6. Lupin (?) - is he muggle born or half-blood? I'm sure he's one of the two. 7. A background character, such as a member of the DA (alot of whom are starting to look like they may become more important characters) 8. Or a character we've yet to meet.
I have also heard that the new DADA teacher is NOT going to be a new character. However JKR has stated that there is going to be a new minister for magic, this could be a new character, could they be the HBP?
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Amilia Smith - Jan 18, 2005 2:34 pm (#2421 of 2923)
Frogface: Where did you hear that the new DADA teacher will not be a new character? Just wondering, as it is not something I had heard yet.
Mills.
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Veritaserum - Jan 18, 2005 3:13 pm (#2422 of 2923)
Go Jays!
It seems that Lupin's being bitten by a werewolf at a young age would cause major problems for a muggle family. If he were muggle-born, encountering a werewolf would be less likely to happen, don't you think? So I'd go with the fact that he's either half-blood or pureblood, though even those distinctions have fine lines.
I don't think we have anything to go on that says the Half-Blood Prince is himself a half-blood. I'd say it could just as easily be someone who associates himself with half-bloods, that the term is figurative or derogatory. Or maybe the HBP has some mysterious and tragic background story on how he came to be the HBP.
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Dr Filibuster - Jan 18, 2005 4:15 pm (#2423 of 2923)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Rowling said that Lupin is half-blood.
For further proof Neville is pure-blood take a look at CoS "The Duelling Club";
"a roaring trade in talismans, amulets and other protective devices was sweepng the school. Neville Longbottom bought a large, evil smelling green onion, a pointed purple crystal and a rotting newt-tail before the other Gryffindor boys pointed out that he was in no damger: he was a pure-blood, and therefore unlikely to be attacked."
My first thought was Hagrid for HBP. Now I favour Godric Gryfindor or a completely new character.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 18, 2005 8:16 pm (#2424 of 2923)
I have guessed that the new DADA teacher might be the HBP. But I don't think so. The titles of the books do not relate to the DADA teacher. It would be a break in JKRs pattern if the title and the DADA teacher match. Just a thought! I think I'm with Dr. Filibuster and favor Godric. For today anyway...LPO
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 19, 2005 1:08 am (#2425 of 2923)
Wouldn't it be great if Lupin was brought back as DADA teacher? I'm not convinced that this would happen but with the war and everything it would make sense to have someone who knew their stuff. I think it would make Harry's year to have him back in the school!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 19, 2005 1:47 am (#2426 of 2923)
Could Nymphadora Tonks have a brother who's a wizard? He'd be a half-blood. But not sure about a prince.
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frogface - Jan 19, 2005 4:24 am (#2427 of 2923)
can't remember where i heard that the next DADA teacher wasn't going to be a new character, it may have just been a rumour so don't count on it at all! Veritaserum, you are right of course, it could be someone like DD who is just refered to as 'king of mud-bloods' or something along those lines. The term might not be literal at all, for instance they might not be a Prince in the true sense of the word either. I was basicly going on my instinct that whoever it is (if its anyone at all!) was actually half-blood.
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 19, 2005 6:25 am (#2428 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP is actually a Vampire!
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 19, 2005 8:24 am (#2429 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 19, 2005 7:44 am
Hello everyone! I want to let everybody know if they do not already that it is official: David Yates is going to be directing the movie based on Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix! Yay! There was a news confrence about it. You can read about it on the Leaky Cauldren News! Click the link below to read!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Rosie - Jan 21, 2005 3:54 am (#2430 of 2923)
Predictions for HBP: We find out about Lily's early life at Hogwarts. We find out who her friends were. One of her ex-friends we already know quite well and will be a nasty surprise for Harry. Voldemort will try to get to Harry again! Harry's romantic life fails to get off the ground ("neither shall live while the other survives"). Ron finally gets a girlfriend (Hermione?).
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vball man - Jan 21, 2005 7:12 am (#2431 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Also, maybe we'll find out about the "spouse" in book 6.
Red Nose Day Chat, BBC Online, March 12, 2001
Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses?
JKR: Good question - yes, a few of them, but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why..
I wonder what that means.
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Eliza - Jan 21, 2005 1:26 pm (#2432 of 2923)
I believe that we may also find out more about both sets of Harry's Grandparents. Also, I think that Luna Lovegood is going to play a much bigger part in this book.
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Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 1:48 pm (#2433 of 2923)
Librarian
vball man, I've seen that quotation before and I still can't figure out why the spouses, or the having of spouses, could be significant. "A few of them." How many professors do we know? Snape, McGonagall, Binns, Flitwick, Hagrid, Grubbly-Plank, the substiture Magical Creatures teacher (can't remember her name), Trelawney, and Sinistra. I've probably forgotten a couple. I guess that Pince could be considered faculty, and maybe the healer, again I can't remember her name. Thats eleven. What would be a few out of eleven?
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Eliza - Jan 21, 2005 2:03 pm (#2434 of 2923)
Grubbly-Plank is the substitute Magical Creatures teacher. The healer is Poppy Pomfrey. Then there is Professor Vector and Madam Hooch. That's all I can remember right now.
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Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 2:07 pm (#2435 of 2923)
Librarian
Professor Sprout! Yes she is the Herbology professor.
That takes us to 14 faculty, I think. 15 if you count Dumbledore.
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kj09 - Jan 21, 2005 2:21 pm (#2436 of 2923)
Has anyone considered a student from another school being the HBP? What about someone like Krum?
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Catherine - Jan 21, 2005 2:31 pm (#2437 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
It's possible, but I believe that JKR said recently that we will see Krum again, but not until the 7th book.
For me that pretty much rules Krum out. Also, if Draco is to be believed, Durmstrang does not admit what he called "rifraff." So while Krum could be half-blood, I'm inclined to doubt it.
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vball man - Jan 21, 2005 8:04 pm (#2438 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I think a spouses thread would be interesting...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 21, 2005 8:11 pm (#2439 of 2923)
I think it would be interesting to find out more about Lily's school days. I also think Neville is going to play and increasingly more important role. LPO
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The giant squid - Jan 22, 2005 11:53 pm (#2440 of 2923)
I think a spouses thread would be interesting...
I like the idea, but since all we know about them is that we don't know about them, there isn't much to sustain a thread.
Man, I hate being the buzzkill...
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Liz Mann - Jan 23, 2005 9:30 am (#2441 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
TLC and Mugglenet are both reporting a possible length for HBP. Amazon and Barnes and Noble have an option to pre-order the 'library binding' version of the book which, they say, is 672 pages long.
GoF is 636 and OotP is 766. So HBP is in between.
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TGF - Jan 23, 2005 11:29 am (#2442 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I would prefer 872 (or hell, maybe like 8720) but at least she hasn't scaled back to Philosopher's stone length or anything like that. Though I want book 7 to be longer than War and Peace.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 23, 2005 11:53 am (#2443 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
TGF-It will have to be to answer all of our question. I was thinking more the size Webster's Dictionary.
Mikie
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Her-melanie - Jan 23, 2005 12:19 pm (#2444 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Does anyone else feel like everything can't possibly be answered and unraveled in just 2 books?! There is so much left to question! I don't know HOW JKR can possibly do it. Maybe book 7 will be released in 2 parts. What a cliffhanger that would be.
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Ann - Jan 23, 2005 12:51 pm (#2445 of 2923)
MickeyCee: " I was thinking more the size Webster's Dictionary."
You mean the unabridged edition, I presume! That might be all right, though the Oxford English Dictionary would be better.
It's funny--I was delighted to learn how long GoF was in 2000, and HBP will be even longer than that, but after OotP 672 pages seems almost...short. Ninety-four pages shorter. Sigh!
Does anyone know what they mean by "library binding"? All you librarians? Is it normally the same pagination as the ordinary hardback? Or do they print it differently somehow to make it more durable (bigger margins or something). I hope not!
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TGF - Jan 23, 2005 12:55 pm (#2446 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, I don't think every single loose end in the book needs to be tied up... but I certainly wouldn't say no to a Webster's Unabridged Dictionary-sized Harry Potter.
Maybe she could just make it like that cursed book... the one that just doesn't end and which you can't stop reading... you get to read and read and read for the rest of your life. That wouldn't be so bad at all, I don't think.
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Ann - Jan 23, 2005 12:59 pm (#2447 of 2923)
TGF, I think she's already done that!
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 23, 2005 4:37 pm (#2448 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Ann-Of course the unabridged. I thought about editing and adding but figured you would all catch my drift. I believe though I could be wrong that library binding is just a reference to hardbound binding. Come on librarians correct me if I'm wrong.
Mikie
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Eliza - Jan 23, 2005 5:52 pm (#2449 of 2923)
The only problem with book 7 being really long is that it will take her a really long time to write it. I don't want to wait to long. Besides I vote for a continuation of Harry's life after Hogwarts.
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Jak Frank - Jan 23, 2005 6:07 pm (#2450 of 2923)
Student
I don't want to hear about Harry after the 7th book (if he lives). I definately think Jo should write more about the World in which Harry Potter is based in but to tell someone else's story.
As for book 7 taking a long time to write. Well, I would rather wait a long time to get a really good, thorough, well-written book than something she tried to compress and finish quickly.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 18, 2005 8:25 am
Actually on second thought he is not the best canadate... Seeing how the 2nd book was almost called The Half Blood Prince i doubt JK would make Ron that important so early....We should have a list of possible people for the HBP!
Possible HBPs
Harry = No - Because JK Specifically said he was not.
Voldemort = No - Because JK Specifically said he was not.
Ron = Possible - But not likely, is halfblooded...but thats about it
Hermione = No - Because she's a girl!
Neville = Possible - Is half blooded i think?
Cedric Diggory = No - Lol He's Dead!
Godric Griffindor = Possible - Is he half blooded? Cant remember
Sir Nicholas DeMimsey Porpington Aka: Nearly Headless Nick = Possible
Malfoy = No - I'd think not! Him a Prince? As if! Pure Blooded anyway.
etc....
Help me add to it please! Thanks
-Thomas
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Eponine - Jan 18, 2005 9:24 am (#2402 of 2923)
The Weasleys are pure-bloods. From CoS UK paperback p. 247 "The Weasleys are one of our most prominent pure-blood families."
From OotP UK hardback p. 105 "The pure-blood families are all interrelated...Molly and I are cousins by marriage and Arthur's something like my second cousin once removed. But there's no point looking fo rthem on here - if ever a family was a bunch of blood traitors it's the Weasleys."
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Catherine - Jan 18, 2005 9:26 am (#2403 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Hello all, I think Ron is a likely canadate for the Half-Blood Prince because he is defininitly half blooded "The weasleys are one of the most unpure blooded family of wizards" and jk sometimes likes to take the attention off of harry with ron do--Thomas Phifer
Thomas, I think you are mistaken. Ron and his family are pure-blood wizards.
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Snuffles - Jan 18, 2005 9:27 am (#2404 of 2923)
Olivia
Neville is also pure blood.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:27 am (#2405 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
So that means the weasly's are NOT pure right? If "there were no such blood traitors as the weasley's" then that means they have bred with muggles! Correct me if im wrong..? -Thomas
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Ainsley Black - Jan 18, 2005 9:29 am (#2406 of 2923)
Thomas Both Ron and Nevil are actually Pureblooded i believe so that's two less for us to think about unless JK has taken an non-literal meaning of Prince.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:29 am (#2407 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
oh my bad.. I am ashamed! i forgot they WERE purebloods! But why does malfoy and his family hate them so?
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Catherine - Jan 18, 2005 9:30 am (#2408 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Thomas,
It has been stated that the Weasleys are pure-blood. They are considered "blood traitors" because they don't seem to hold that pure-bloodedness makes them superior to other wizards. They associate with people who are not pure-blood, and Arthur is considered to lack "proper wizarding pride."
I hope this clears up any confusion.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:30 am (#2409 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Its because they associate with unpure wizards right? oh ok i got it now.
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Ainsley Black - Jan 18, 2005 9:31 am (#2410 of 2923)
Because they, like DD, like Muggles and Half-bloods
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:31 am (#2411 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 18, 2005 8:33 am
So is there such a list going yet? I have just started here so im sorry if thats a dumb question....
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:38 am (#2412 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
I think by process of elimation we can get very close to who its gonna be. Plus there is a 50%-50% chance the HPB is a new charactor or if its one we already know right? So if we narrow it down from all the ones we know, that will still only be a 50% possibility of it being correct depending on how many we narrow it down to and the "strong" assumptions on some rather than others. The not so strong can be at the bottom and the more likley at the top. Like a top Ten list for possible matches of the HBP!
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 18, 2005 9:39 am (#2413 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
k ill be back later to read your responses sorry if my ideas are stupid! -Thomas
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Catherine - Jan 18, 2005 9:40 am (#2414 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Welcome to the Forum, Thomas, since you said that you are new.
I encourage you to try the "Search" function to find specific information. You should also know that you have 30 minutes to edit your post, so that gives you time to add to your original post if you have a new question without posting several times in a row.
It's also helpful to use the "Edit" feature in order to make sure that your post has the word "I" capitalized and that you capitalize the first letters of your sentences.
Good luck.
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Denise P. - Jan 18, 2005 9:40 am (#2415 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
I think there is also the fact that the Weasley's don't exactly hide the fact that they have a few squibs and muggles on down in the family tree. As Ron said in CoS...
Most wizards these days are half-blood anyway. If we hadn't married Muggles we'd've died out.
I think the Malfoys and other families obsessed with being pure would rather their lips fall off than ever admit that an ancestor ever lowered themselves to marry a Muggle.
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Eponine - Jan 18, 2005 9:41 am (#2416 of 2923)
Thomas Phifer, did you know that you can edit your posts up to 30 minutes after you first post them? It's helpful so you don't have multiple posts.
Welcome to the forum.
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vball man - Jan 18, 2005 9:44 am (#2417 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Add Dumbledore.
Add Unknown.
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TGF - Jan 18, 2005 12:31 pm (#2418 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Neville is a Pure-Blood (both his parents were aurors, and Dumbledore explicitly defined Neville as a Pure-Blood in his conversation with Harry at the end of Book 5)
I think that if Dumbledore were Half-Blood, we would've heard of it. There have been many occasions where Death Eaters have gone on about 'Mudblood loving ways' or whatnot... Don't you think if he was a Half-Blood there might have been a Death Eater or two saying 'Damn that filthy Half-Blood!' here and there?
I really can't think of anyone else at Hogwarts who can claim the title... Unless its a minor character who's going to get a lot more development... like, sure, it COULD be Micheal Corner or Roger Davies or Jack Sloper or whatnot, but if it is there's no way we can know standing here.
Random musing: Is Snape most definetly pure blood?
Though really: Maybe the whole Prince thing is really just incidental to the plot anyway, the way the Goblet of Fire was. The title doesn't *necessarily* mean that for the whole book, Harry is going to be dealing with Princes.
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KTO - Jan 18, 2005 1:28 pm (#2419 of 2923)
In COS Neville says his family thought he was all muggle for ages, not a squib! I think it will be Neville.
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frogface - Jan 18, 2005 2:27 pm (#2420 of 2923)
Its actually in PS/SS that Neville makes that comment, and I think he said that because a) JKR hadn't come up with the term 'squib' yet, or b) because Neville himself did not know the term. Neville's Parents are both Wizards, as is his Grandmother, so I always assumed he was pure blood, although I could be wrong. To my mind the list of "suspects" so far is
1. Godric Gryfindor 2. Dean Thomas 3. Seamus Finnigan 4. Hagrid (?) 5. Dumbledore (?) 6. Lupin (?) - is he muggle born or half-blood? I'm sure he's one of the two. 7. A background character, such as a member of the DA (alot of whom are starting to look like they may become more important characters) 8. Or a character we've yet to meet.
I have also heard that the new DADA teacher is NOT going to be a new character. However JKR has stated that there is going to be a new minister for magic, this could be a new character, could they be the HBP?
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Amilia Smith - Jan 18, 2005 2:34 pm (#2421 of 2923)
Frogface: Where did you hear that the new DADA teacher will not be a new character? Just wondering, as it is not something I had heard yet.
Mills.
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Veritaserum - Jan 18, 2005 3:13 pm (#2422 of 2923)
Go Jays!
It seems that Lupin's being bitten by a werewolf at a young age would cause major problems for a muggle family. If he were muggle-born, encountering a werewolf would be less likely to happen, don't you think? So I'd go with the fact that he's either half-blood or pureblood, though even those distinctions have fine lines.
I don't think we have anything to go on that says the Half-Blood Prince is himself a half-blood. I'd say it could just as easily be someone who associates himself with half-bloods, that the term is figurative or derogatory. Or maybe the HBP has some mysterious and tragic background story on how he came to be the HBP.
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Dr Filibuster - Jan 18, 2005 4:15 pm (#2423 of 2923)
Sue, from Northwich, England.
Rowling said that Lupin is half-blood.
For further proof Neville is pure-blood take a look at CoS "The Duelling Club";
"a roaring trade in talismans, amulets and other protective devices was sweepng the school. Neville Longbottom bought a large, evil smelling green onion, a pointed purple crystal and a rotting newt-tail before the other Gryffindor boys pointed out that he was in no damger: he was a pure-blood, and therefore unlikely to be attacked."
My first thought was Hagrid for HBP. Now I favour Godric Gryfindor or a completely new character.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 18, 2005 8:16 pm (#2424 of 2923)
I have guessed that the new DADA teacher might be the HBP. But I don't think so. The titles of the books do not relate to the DADA teacher. It would be a break in JKRs pattern if the title and the DADA teacher match. Just a thought! I think I'm with Dr. Filibuster and favor Godric. For today anyway...LPO
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 19, 2005 1:08 am (#2425 of 2923)
Wouldn't it be great if Lupin was brought back as DADA teacher? I'm not convinced that this would happen but with the war and everything it would make sense to have someone who knew their stuff. I think it would make Harry's year to have him back in the school!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jan 19, 2005 1:47 am (#2426 of 2923)
Could Nymphadora Tonks have a brother who's a wizard? He'd be a half-blood. But not sure about a prince.
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frogface - Jan 19, 2005 4:24 am (#2427 of 2923)
can't remember where i heard that the next DADA teacher wasn't going to be a new character, it may have just been a rumour so don't count on it at all! Veritaserum, you are right of course, it could be someone like DD who is just refered to as 'king of mud-bloods' or something along those lines. The term might not be literal at all, for instance they might not be a Prince in the true sense of the word either. I was basicly going on my instinct that whoever it is (if its anyone at all!) was actually half-blood.
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Kerrie-Louise - Jan 19, 2005 6:25 am (#2428 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP is actually a Vampire!
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 19, 2005 8:24 am (#2429 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 19, 2005 7:44 am
Hello everyone! I want to let everybody know if they do not already that it is official: David Yates is going to be directing the movie based on Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix! Yay! There was a news confrence about it. You can read about it on the Leaky Cauldren News! Click the link below to read!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Rosie - Jan 21, 2005 3:54 am (#2430 of 2923)
Predictions for HBP: We find out about Lily's early life at Hogwarts. We find out who her friends were. One of her ex-friends we already know quite well and will be a nasty surprise for Harry. Voldemort will try to get to Harry again! Harry's romantic life fails to get off the ground ("neither shall live while the other survives"). Ron finally gets a girlfriend (Hermione?).
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vball man - Jan 21, 2005 7:12 am (#2431 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Also, maybe we'll find out about the "spouse" in book 6.
Red Nose Day Chat, BBC Online, March 12, 2001
Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses?
JKR: Good question - yes, a few of them, but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why..
I wonder what that means.
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Eliza - Jan 21, 2005 1:26 pm (#2432 of 2923)
I believe that we may also find out more about both sets of Harry's Grandparents. Also, I think that Luna Lovegood is going to play a much bigger part in this book.
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Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 1:48 pm (#2433 of 2923)
Librarian
vball man, I've seen that quotation before and I still can't figure out why the spouses, or the having of spouses, could be significant. "A few of them." How many professors do we know? Snape, McGonagall, Binns, Flitwick, Hagrid, Grubbly-Plank, the substiture Magical Creatures teacher (can't remember her name), Trelawney, and Sinistra. I've probably forgotten a couple. I guess that Pince could be considered faculty, and maybe the healer, again I can't remember her name. Thats eleven. What would be a few out of eleven?
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Eliza - Jan 21, 2005 2:03 pm (#2434 of 2923)
Grubbly-Plank is the substitute Magical Creatures teacher. The healer is Poppy Pomfrey. Then there is Professor Vector and Madam Hooch. That's all I can remember right now.
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Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 2:07 pm (#2435 of 2923)
Librarian
Professor Sprout! Yes she is the Herbology professor.
That takes us to 14 faculty, I think. 15 if you count Dumbledore.
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kj09 - Jan 21, 2005 2:21 pm (#2436 of 2923)
Has anyone considered a student from another school being the HBP? What about someone like Krum?
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Catherine - Jan 21, 2005 2:31 pm (#2437 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
It's possible, but I believe that JKR said recently that we will see Krum again, but not until the 7th book.
For me that pretty much rules Krum out. Also, if Draco is to be believed, Durmstrang does not admit what he called "rifraff." So while Krum could be half-blood, I'm inclined to doubt it.
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vball man - Jan 21, 2005 8:04 pm (#2438 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I think a spouses thread would be interesting...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 21, 2005 8:11 pm (#2439 of 2923)
I think it would be interesting to find out more about Lily's school days. I also think Neville is going to play and increasingly more important role. LPO
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The giant squid - Jan 22, 2005 11:53 pm (#2440 of 2923)
I think a spouses thread would be interesting...
I like the idea, but since all we know about them is that we don't know about them, there isn't much to sustain a thread.
Man, I hate being the buzzkill...
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Liz Mann - Jan 23, 2005 9:30 am (#2441 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
TLC and Mugglenet are both reporting a possible length for HBP. Amazon and Barnes and Noble have an option to pre-order the 'library binding' version of the book which, they say, is 672 pages long.
GoF is 636 and OotP is 766. So HBP is in between.
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TGF - Jan 23, 2005 11:29 am (#2442 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I would prefer 872 (or hell, maybe like 8720) but at least she hasn't scaled back to Philosopher's stone length or anything like that. Though I want book 7 to be longer than War and Peace.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 23, 2005 11:53 am (#2443 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
TGF-It will have to be to answer all of our question. I was thinking more the size Webster's Dictionary.
Mikie
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Her-melanie - Jan 23, 2005 12:19 pm (#2444 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Does anyone else feel like everything can't possibly be answered and unraveled in just 2 books?! There is so much left to question! I don't know HOW JKR can possibly do it. Maybe book 7 will be released in 2 parts. What a cliffhanger that would be.
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Ann - Jan 23, 2005 12:51 pm (#2445 of 2923)
MickeyCee: " I was thinking more the size Webster's Dictionary."
You mean the unabridged edition, I presume! That might be all right, though the Oxford English Dictionary would be better.
It's funny--I was delighted to learn how long GoF was in 2000, and HBP will be even longer than that, but after OotP 672 pages seems almost...short. Ninety-four pages shorter. Sigh!
Does anyone know what they mean by "library binding"? All you librarians? Is it normally the same pagination as the ordinary hardback? Or do they print it differently somehow to make it more durable (bigger margins or something). I hope not!
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TGF - Jan 23, 2005 12:55 pm (#2446 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, I don't think every single loose end in the book needs to be tied up... but I certainly wouldn't say no to a Webster's Unabridged Dictionary-sized Harry Potter.
Maybe she could just make it like that cursed book... the one that just doesn't end and which you can't stop reading... you get to read and read and read for the rest of your life. That wouldn't be so bad at all, I don't think.
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Ann - Jan 23, 2005 12:59 pm (#2447 of 2923)
TGF, I think she's already done that!
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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 23, 2005 4:37 pm (#2448 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Ann-Of course the unabridged. I thought about editing and adding but figured you would all catch my drift. I believe though I could be wrong that library binding is just a reference to hardbound binding. Come on librarians correct me if I'm wrong.
Mikie
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Eliza - Jan 23, 2005 5:52 pm (#2449 of 2923)
The only problem with book 7 being really long is that it will take her a really long time to write it. I don't want to wait to long. Besides I vote for a continuation of Harry's life after Hogwarts.
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Jak Frank - Jan 23, 2005 6:07 pm (#2450 of 2923)
Student
I don't want to hear about Harry after the 7th book (if he lives). I definately think Jo should write more about the World in which Harry Potter is based in but to tell someone else's story.
As for book 7 taking a long time to write. Well, I would rather wait a long time to get a really good, thorough, well-written book than something she tried to compress and finish quickly.
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