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Log inHP6: the Half Blood Prince (28 Jun 04 - 14 Mar 05)
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2451 to 2500)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:58 am
Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 23, 2005 7:01 pm (#2451 of 2923)
Ann Library binding is different than Hardbound. The binding is sewn not glued. It does last longer. I am a Middle School Librarian and the Scholastic bound Harry Potter books fall apart very quickly. It is frustrating. Library Bound is usually more expensive. It is worth it for books that will be read and reread many times.
Jak I would love for her to write about the founders of Hogwarts. JKR does not have deadlines to meet. She will make sure book 7 is well-written. I'm guessing book seven will come out in '07. LPO
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Star Crossed - Jan 23, 2005 8:52 pm (#2452 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I hope it comes out in '07. What could be a better graduation gift than the seventh book? I'd be graduating with Harry!
Personally, if she was going to write something about it, I would want the MWPP age. It's so fasinating and I would love to hear about it.
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TGF - Jan 23, 2005 11:59 pm (#2453 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Just pulled this off TLC:
"TLC reader Tina wrote us to let us know that Barnes & Noble also has a "Deluxe Version" of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince for pre-order. No description of what makes it "deluxe" is given, however it does have the page length for this edition at 704. Tina also tells us that the regular hardback edition for the Half-Blood Prince has the 672 page number listed as well. Thanks Tina!"
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] There's the link to it... what the heck does it mean by 'Deluxe'... And why does the Deluxe edition have 32 extra pages? Surely they aren't going to have more than one version of the same book released at the same time... right? Right? Because that would just be super wrong. Particularly if they gank everyone by making 'Deluxe' more expensive than the normal version. This better just be some marketing ploy and nothing more...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 24, 2005 1:43 am (#2454 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Product Details: ISBN: 0439791324 Format: Hardcover, 704pp Pub. Date: July 16, 2005 Publisher: Scholastic, Inc. Edition Description: Deluxe Edition Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 53 Age Range: 9 to 12 Series: Harry Potter Series, #6
9-12??????????
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The giant squid - Jan 24, 2005 2:03 am (#2455 of 2923)
Maybe the "deluxe" edition will have interior art or fancy chapter titles, etc. In other words, something to add to the overall page count but not the word count. I can't see JKR doing a "director's cut" edition...well, not until after book 7's out anyway. Then she can pull a George Lucas and release "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Special Edition".
Or not.
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Eliza - Jan 24, 2005 8:16 am (#2456 of 2923)
I called my Barnes & Noble and they had no idea. They don't even have the deluxe edition in their computer.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 8:22 am (#2457 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Catherine Jan 24, 2005 3:18 pm
Very interesting. I could not imagine JK Rowling pulling a George Lucas! She is not that way. She did say once if she ever did pull a Lucas all the proceeds would go to charity, and that would be the only reason she would do it. By the way the Barns&Noble link, where does it say something about the deluxe edition of the HBP?
Thomas, I removed the link and your reference to it that you provided, as I thought some images did not conform to Forum guidelines.--Catherine A.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 24, 2005 8:46 am (#2458 of 2923)
Great site, Thomas! And may I say for the record, "Yuck!"
Thanks,
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 8:49 am (#2459 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 24, 2005 8:07 am
Yes, I am afraid the realism of the artist's vision was awe inspiring yet may be a little gross. Sorry. But you must understand, house elves are not the most beautiful creatures in the world. Surley you can appreatiate the way this artist captured Kreacher EXACTLY? You know?
Did you see the last (Very Large) picture at the VERY bottom? That is the finished product. Amazing! Can't you just imagine him in movie 5 walking around grumbling odd insults and muttering to himself! And Hermione cares about this guy! Thank You, Joanne!
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Liz Mann - Jan 24, 2005 9:17 am (#2460 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Woah! I hope Kreacher does look like that. I imagine him as being uglier than Dobby or Winky.
As for book 7 taking a long time to write. Well, I would rather wait a long time to get a really good, thorough, well-written book than something she tried to compress and finish quickly.
Here here! I don't mind waiting two or three years, so long as the resulting book is nice and long. And it's not like there isn't plenty to do in the meantime, is it? HBP is going to give us lots more to talk about and provide loads more inspiration for fan fiction and art.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 9:53 am (#2461 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Oh yes, I bet Kreacher is ugly even to other house elves!
HA!
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KWeldon - Jan 24, 2005 11:18 am (#2462 of 2923)
Forgive me if this has been brought up hrere before, but I was skimming through OotP last night and was reminded that Harry saw at 12 Grimmauld Place a book entitled Nature's Nobility--A Wizarding Geneology--
If purebloods are considered noble in the WW, then can we construe the title to mean that prince has nothing to do with pure royalty but blood lineage only? Not a big leap here, but it would be nice to rule out some theories, such as those having to do with real royalty, such as a monarchy and so forth.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 11:36 am (#2463 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 24, 2005 10:43 am
Interesting theory Weldon. He could just be actual royalty that happens to be half blood. Now that I think about it, the title is an oxymoron. Ha! I just now understood that! Because how could someone half-blooded be held as a prince in the wizarding world without some kind of scrutany(sp?)? Hmm have you considered the new Minister of Magic to be a suspect? I will be pondering..... If you would like to chat I will be in the chat room for a bit. -Thomas Phifer
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Veritaserum - Jan 24, 2005 2:56 pm (#2464 of 2923)
Go Jays!
I don't know if I want all the questions to be answered in the 7th book. The really big, obvious and nagging ones, sure, but I want a little to speculate about. Like what if she never tells us if Harry lives or dies? (Kinda like The Giver until the sequels came out)
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Liz Mann - Jan 24, 2005 5:28 pm (#2465 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
It would be nice if there were things left unsolved. In fact, most likely there will be as she probably doesn't know all our questions. It'll give her things to answer in interviews. Plus keep our little community going, hopefully.
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Ann - Jan 25, 2005 5:53 am (#2466 of 2923)
Okay, a few unanswered questions would be okay. But whether Harry lives or dies???!?!?!! Noooooooooo.......!!!
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Helen Potterfan - Jan 25, 2005 8:13 am (#2467 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
BN.com has this description of the Deluxe Edition: "The Deluxe Edition will include a slipcase with unique art and a 32-page insert with the black and white art from the interior blown up to full page size." That makes me think that there are 32 chapters since the interior art is usually at the beginning of the chapters. It's $42 (list price $60)!!! I don't know if I can pay that. The library edition is $34.99
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jan 25, 2005 5:11 pm (#2468 of 2923)
I just searched Amazon and I found out that HBP will be the second volume to have a deluxe edition issued.
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Helen Potterfan - Jan 25, 2005 5:30 pm (#2469 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
yes, that's right. Order of the Phoenix has a deluxe edition, but it's listed as having the same number of pages, so it's different from the HBP deluxe edition. Did anyone buy the OoP Deluxe? Was it worth the extra price?
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Rosie - Jan 26, 2005 4:13 am (#2470 of 2923)
If you do not want to buy HBP at a high price you can order it NOW at WHSmiths for £9.99 until April 2nd.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 26, 2005 9:32 am (#2471 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 26, 2005 8:32 am
I remember paying $49.99 for Goblet of Fire!(or something like that) I probably got ripped off. By the way how do pounds covert to dollars? Rosie you say you can get the book for 10 pounds but how much is that in American Dollars? $50 dollars can buy a new high quality portable cd player for example.
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Catherine - Jan 26, 2005 11:06 am (#2472 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I don't know the conversion for British pounds to dollars at the minute, but both Amazon and Barnes and Noble are listing the price of HBP as $17.99. Amazon will ship for free if it is over $25; Barnes and Noble offers free shipping and said the book will arrive in 3 or fewer days.
The library edition necessarily costs more because it has a sewn binding, but I do not have the exact price for that now, either, although it has shown up on the Forum in the past few days.
EDIT: 1 USD = 0.530540 GBP as of 1:07 p.m. today. That gives the price that Rosie quoted to be about $18.99 in American dollars. Hope that is helpful.
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Eliza - Jan 26, 2005 1:39 pm (#2473 of 2923)
Also, if you have a Barnes & Noble in your area you can pre-order with the store at the online pre-order price and pick it up as soon as it is released. If not, you may want to check with other bookstores in your area and see if they are offering the same deal.
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Catherine - Jan 26, 2005 3:05 pm (#2474 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Good point, Eliza, and I would say that from my experience with OoP that people who went to the midnight release at Barnes and Noble without reserving a copy in advance were unable to go home with a book that evening. It doesn't cost anything to reserve your copy, and at our store, one's place in line was determined by the date of the reservation.
I myself have reserved two copies, as I don't share well or play nicely with others when it comes to a new Harry Potter book!
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 26, 2005 5:41 pm (#2475 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 26, 2005 4:43 pm
Thank You Catherine! That was very helpful information. I can now make a decision on buying at release date or pre-ordering. And the pounds to dollars info was very interesting. For anyone reading this: I will be in the chat room for a bit, so if you would like to chat by all means pop in!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 26, 2005 7:24 pm (#2476 of 2923)
I have a friend whose birthday is the 15th of July. We were planning on going to our local Borders, celebrating her birthday with a cup of coffee and picking up our books at midnight. When we called they said they were not planning anything! Guess I'll have to go to the grocery store at midnight and get my copies. It worked well with OoP. LPO
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James Greenfield - Jan 27, 2005 2:15 am (#2477 of 2923)
"We were planning on going to our local Borders ..." "When we called they said they were not planning anything!" :LPO
LPO: My local Borders said the same sort of thing before OotP came out. They were not even going to be open the night before it came out. But about a week before the release date, when they found out what competing bookstores were doing, they suddenly decided to remain open after their normal 9 PM closing, and to let Potter fans stay in the store until midnight, when we lined up for our copies. So, don't give up.
I had about three hours of fun in my Cornelius Fudge outfit, acting pompous and misinformed. (My wife went dressed as Minerva McGonagall, in a bold tartan and academic robes.) I think we can reprise those roles this coming July.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 27, 2005 9:50 am (#2478 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Wow! James Greenfield, you make my fan enthusiasm look like simple hobby! Dressing up as Fudge!? And your wife dressed as Mcgonnagal? Wow you are so lucky to have a relationship so close with someone in which you both love Harry Potter. I am envious. I have plenty of Potter stuff all over my room and in the house but I have never dressed up as any of the characters. And you seem to be adults (seeing as how you are married) and adults usually don't admit they read HP. You are an adult with a great enthusiasm for the world of HP and I am proud to have fellow fans such as you and your wife. I think it may be time for me to take it up a notch myself. 
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Eliza - Jan 27, 2005 1:03 pm (#2479 of 2923)
I have never dressed as a character but I think that may have a lot more to do with having two little ones and lack of extra funds and time. I only recently bought all the books on Ebay though I have read them all twice from the library(and am now reading my copies). The library considers me an obsessed fan but this will be the first HP book that I will be buying new. The funny thing is that my best friend has never read any of the books, however, she has seen the movies, and she dressed as Hermione for Halloween this year and was absolutely thrilled to borrow my Gyffindor patch that I was lucky enough to receive with my Ebay purchase.
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Catherine - Jan 27, 2005 1:06 pm (#2480 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I think this thread needs to come back to the topic of the Half-Blood Prince.
I take responsibility for posting the information about the book, but now that people are discussing costumes and gatherings, I think we're really off topic.
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The giant squid - Jan 27, 2005 3:58 pm (#2481 of 2923)
Adults usually don't admit they read HP
Well, except around here...I think we've got more adults (not"grown-ups") here than kids most of the time.
Catherine, the thread title is HP6: The Half Blood Prince, so it refers to the book itself, not just the character of the HBP. That said, you're right that costumes, etc. are off topic.
So, a bookly observation: In each book the time spent before getting to Hogwarts increases. If Harry is going to be spending the least time ever at Privet Drive, do you think he'll be rushed to the school or spend even more time elsewhere? I'm leaning toward the latter. One of the "growing up" things happening in these books is that school is less and less important as time goes on. Unlike in PS/SS, Harry's life does not revolve around Hogwarts--he has contact with friends outsode of school, his most exciting adventures take place off-campus. This is why I agree with the theory that Harry ends up at Spinners End (whether region or home) for a while before school. We've seen Hogwarts; now Jo's letting us see other parts of the wizarding world.
Hmm...yeah, that was almost coherent.
--Mike
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Eliza - Jan 27, 2005 4:27 pm (#2482 of 2923)
I agree that Harry will be somewhere other than Hogwarts for a while. We know from Jo's rumours section that Harry will be leaving "the Dursleys early for a much pleasanter reason than a court case". So I guess we can rule out our earlier theory that it is because his life is in danger because I would not consider that "pleasant". I guess there is a possibility that he may be going to stay with Fred and George. He did get them started in their new lives and they were the ones that helped him escape the Dursleys via the flying car in his second year. The interesting thing is whether or not they would invite Ron to stay too. They seem to be closer to Harry then Ron. They just seem to relate better to him (example: In OoP, they give Harry the Mauraders' Map and Ron wants to know why they never gave it to him.)
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James Greenfield - Jan 28, 2005 2:27 am (#2483 of 2923)
My apology, I was badly Off Topic (goes to iron hands, bangs head against wall). I have read the entries in this thread for a long time, and cannot guess what will happen in HBP any better than anyone else.
I hope the HBP turns out to be Goderic Gryffindor, but if it is Hagrid or Neville or Dean, that's OK too.I hope Harry grows up a bit faster than in OotP: he needs to get his act together to fight LV and the DEs.(But, I remember I was very awkward and immature in my teens, so who knows.)
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 28, 2005 8:08 am (#2484 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 28, 2005 7:10 am
* ON TOPIC *
The only "pleasant" reasons I can think that Harry will be leaving the Dursley's for are:
1. Harry stays with the Weasleys and Ron
2. Stays with Fred and George and we get to check out their new shop
3. Harry goes back to 12 Grimauld Place (would that be "pleasant"? or not?)
4. Harry stays with Hermione! That would be different.
5.Goes to help someone do something, Mr. Weasley, Dumbledore, something, maybe for the Order.
Any other ideas anyone?
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TGF - Jan 28, 2005 10:28 am (#2485 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Technically not on topic, Tom. It relates to HP6, but there's a thread in this very section dedicated to Harry's shortest stay at Privet Drive yet.
I don't think Harry is going to Hermione's parents' house... They're just dentists, after all, what would be exciting about that? JKR seems to strive for the very minimum when it comes to them.
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Hollywand - Jan 28, 2005 3:29 pm (#2486 of 2923)
Gryffindor
TGF, that could be a red herring. The Muggle dentists were intitially a huge part of the first draft---
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TGF - Jan 28, 2005 4:54 pm (#2487 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Umm... where'd you hear that? The only thing I've ever heard from JKR about Hermione's parents is 'they're dentists, so they aren't very interesting'.
How would they ever be huge? They're dentists...
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Hollywand - Jan 28, 2005 5:32 pm (#2488 of 2923)
Gryffindor
The bit about Granger's parents is discussed on her website; the scrapbook bit, I believe, on the first chapter or in the Extra Stuff details.
The whole story line revolves around blood lineage, talented Muggle-borns, etc, Arthur punches Lucius in front of the Grangers in Flourish and Blotts. Arthur loves to tinker with Muggle machines, Harry and Volde both have Muggle relations. I'm not saying its definitely going to happen; I think they have potential as Hermione's supportive Muggle middle class parents.
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Ann - Jan 28, 2005 5:52 pm (#2489 of 2923)
I agree that the fact that Hermione's parents are Muggles and supportive of her magical education are tremendously important, Hollywand, but do you think that, as individuals, they would really have an important role in the books?
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Hollywand - Jan 28, 2005 6:23 pm (#2490 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Ann. Well, as you know, I am a rather addled Alchemist apologist. I have argued on the Alchemy thread that Wormtail's hand is quicksilver, or mercury. Bear with me in my twisted logic...
The only Muggle profession that works with Mercury to this very day is dentists. Hg is the chemical symbol for mercury, the Hermes, hmmm. Hermione's parents are both dentists. Dentists make an amalgam of Mercury and other metals such as tin, and stuff it into our tooth cavities.
If Hermione's parents fashion teeth, and work with mercury or quicksilver, and Arthur the Muggle loving wizard and Albus Dumbledore (the partner of Nicholas Flamel the alchemist) team up with our talented trio, we could have the toothy weapon that bites our Dark Lord in an inconvenient location----like Kansas, for example. ;-)
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The giant squid - Jan 29, 2005 2:29 am (#2491 of 2923)
We could have the toothy weapon that bites our Dark Lord in an inconvenient location
What, like the back seat of a Volkswagon?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 29, 2005 6:19 am (#2492 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Mike, what's wrong with backseat of a Volkswagon? Somehow I don't see Voldie driving a Bug. Bugged by Harry maybe, driven buggy maybe, but drive a Bug?, NEVER!
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Gerald Costales - Jan 29, 2005 7:29 am (#2493 of 2923)
(re: post# 2484)
3. Harry goes back to 12 Grimauld Place (would that be "pleasant"? or not?)
from Thomas Phifer's list
If Sirius left a "Will", he could have easily left 12GP to Harry. And it would be pleasant to kick Kreacher out on his sorry ear. That evil git!!! ;-) GC
PS Just think of all the cool stuff that would be there. Harry could even find something to help defeat Voldermort or contact Sirius. ;-) GC
PPS "The only Muggle profession that works with Mercury to this very day is dentists. Hg is the chemical symbol for mercury, the Hermes, hmmm. Hermione's parents are both dentists." Hollywand
Hg = Hermione Granger. Just an observation. ;-) GC
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mollis - Jan 29, 2005 8:13 am (#2494 of 2923)
Edited by Jan 29, 2005 7:14 am
"an inconvenient location----like Kansas, for example"
Hey! As a Kansas resident - I would kindly request that you send him somewhere else - like Antarctica.
(We don't have anyone posting from Antarctica, do we?
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Eliza - Jan 29, 2005 9:08 am (#2495 of 2923)
Mollis- I'm insulted I'm posted from Antarctica..... Just kidding, I am from Louisiana. As for Grimauld place. I really don't think that Sirius would have left a will. He really was not the type to think ahead. But as Siruis' godson, I think Harry may have claim to it.
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Marie E. - Jan 29, 2005 10:08 am (#2496 of 2923)
TBE, my brother the squid is quoting from a Kevin Smith movie. It's from Mallrats, I think.
If Grimmauld Place is willed to someone else, what happens to Kreacher? Is he actually booted out or does he stay in the family?
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Ann - Jan 29, 2005 10:53 am (#2497 of 2923)
Hollywand, the Mercury (Hg, Hermione Granger, Dentistry) connection is interesting, but if it were significant, you would have thought Hermione's last name would have been Granger all along. But on her "Extra Stuff" page, Jo says it was "Puckle" early on. (HP, now wouldn't that have been confusing!) So, interesting, but I would say most likely a coincidence.
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Gerald Costales - Jan 29, 2005 11:01 am (#2498 of 2923)
Yes, Marie E. there is a "Who's Going to Inherit 12 Grimmauld Place?" thread.
Back on topic. Why isn't there any more support for Remus being the HBP? I like Hagrid but can't take him seriously as a canidate for the HBP.
Remus is a Half-Blood. Just because he doesn't look the part, Remus does have an aura about him. From the first we met him on the Hogwarts Express, Remus's handling of the Dementors created a strong sense of authority. Finally, Remus has been the only effective DADA teacher and with Sirius gone who else for Harry to turn to for advise.
If Remus could teach Harry a Patronus Charm, what other magic could he teach Harry? Especially with the Series winding down, Harry needs a strong and able mentor. ;-) GC
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Ann - Jan 29, 2005 11:18 am (#2499 of 2923)
Gerald: "Harry needs a strong and able mentor"
And Dumbledore isn't enough??
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Hollywand - Jan 29, 2005 11:23 am (#2500 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Ann, "Grangerizing" is a clever pun on Granger. Puck is a well known narration charcter. I don't want to belabor the point here, but both Granger and Puckle identify Hermione Granger as the messenger, the narrator, the author.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ann Library binding is different than Hardbound. The binding is sewn not glued. It does last longer. I am a Middle School Librarian and the Scholastic bound Harry Potter books fall apart very quickly. It is frustrating. Library Bound is usually more expensive. It is worth it for books that will be read and reread many times.
Jak I would love for her to write about the founders of Hogwarts. JKR does not have deadlines to meet. She will make sure book 7 is well-written. I'm guessing book seven will come out in '07. LPO
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Star Crossed - Jan 23, 2005 8:52 pm (#2452 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I hope it comes out in '07. What could be a better graduation gift than the seventh book? I'd be graduating with Harry!
Personally, if she was going to write something about it, I would want the MWPP age. It's so fasinating and I would love to hear about it.
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TGF - Jan 23, 2005 11:59 pm (#2453 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Just pulled this off TLC:
"TLC reader Tina wrote us to let us know that Barnes & Noble also has a "Deluxe Version" of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince for pre-order. No description of what makes it "deluxe" is given, however it does have the page length for this edition at 704. Tina also tells us that the regular hardback edition for the Half-Blood Prince has the 672 page number listed as well. Thanks Tina!"
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] There's the link to it... what the heck does it mean by 'Deluxe'... And why does the Deluxe edition have 32 extra pages? Surely they aren't going to have more than one version of the same book released at the same time... right? Right? Because that would just be super wrong. Particularly if they gank everyone by making 'Deluxe' more expensive than the normal version. This better just be some marketing ploy and nothing more...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 24, 2005 1:43 am (#2454 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Product Details: ISBN: 0439791324 Format: Hardcover, 704pp Pub. Date: July 16, 2005 Publisher: Scholastic, Inc. Edition Description: Deluxe Edition Barnes & Noble Sales Rank: 53 Age Range: 9 to 12 Series: Harry Potter Series, #6
9-12??????????
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The giant squid - Jan 24, 2005 2:03 am (#2455 of 2923)
Maybe the "deluxe" edition will have interior art or fancy chapter titles, etc. In other words, something to add to the overall page count but not the word count. I can't see JKR doing a "director's cut" edition...well, not until after book 7's out anyway. Then she can pull a George Lucas and release "Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Special Edition".
Or not.
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Eliza - Jan 24, 2005 8:16 am (#2456 of 2923)
I called my Barnes & Noble and they had no idea. They don't even have the deluxe edition in their computer.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 8:22 am (#2457 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Catherine Jan 24, 2005 3:18 pm
Very interesting. I could not imagine JK Rowling pulling a George Lucas! She is not that way. She did say once if she ever did pull a Lucas all the proceeds would go to charity, and that would be the only reason she would do it. By the way the Barns&Noble link, where does it say something about the deluxe edition of the HBP?
Thomas, I removed the link and your reference to it that you provided, as I thought some images did not conform to Forum guidelines.--Catherine A.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jan 24, 2005 8:46 am (#2458 of 2923)
Great site, Thomas! And may I say for the record, "Yuck!"
Thanks,
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 8:49 am (#2459 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 24, 2005 8:07 am
Yes, I am afraid the realism of the artist's vision was awe inspiring yet may be a little gross. Sorry. But you must understand, house elves are not the most beautiful creatures in the world. Surley you can appreatiate the way this artist captured Kreacher EXACTLY? You know?
Did you see the last (Very Large) picture at the VERY bottom? That is the finished product. Amazing! Can't you just imagine him in movie 5 walking around grumbling odd insults and muttering to himself! And Hermione cares about this guy! Thank You, Joanne! - - - - - - - - - -
Liz Mann - Jan 24, 2005 9:17 am (#2460 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Woah! I hope Kreacher does look like that. I imagine him as being uglier than Dobby or Winky.
As for book 7 taking a long time to write. Well, I would rather wait a long time to get a really good, thorough, well-written book than something she tried to compress and finish quickly.
Here here! I don't mind waiting two or three years, so long as the resulting book is nice and long. And it's not like there isn't plenty to do in the meantime, is it? HBP is going to give us lots more to talk about and provide loads more inspiration for fan fiction and art.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 9:53 am (#2461 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Oh yes, I bet Kreacher is ugly even to other house elves!
HA! - - - - - - - - - -
KWeldon - Jan 24, 2005 11:18 am (#2462 of 2923)
Forgive me if this has been brought up hrere before, but I was skimming through OotP last night and was reminded that Harry saw at 12 Grimmauld Place a book entitled Nature's Nobility--A Wizarding Geneology--
If purebloods are considered noble in the WW, then can we construe the title to mean that prince has nothing to do with pure royalty but blood lineage only? Not a big leap here, but it would be nice to rule out some theories, such as those having to do with real royalty, such as a monarchy and so forth.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 24, 2005 11:36 am (#2463 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 24, 2005 10:43 am
Interesting theory Weldon. He could just be actual royalty that happens to be half blood. Now that I think about it, the title is an oxymoron. Ha! I just now understood that! Because how could someone half-blooded be held as a prince in the wizarding world without some kind of scrutany(sp?)? Hmm have you considered the new Minister of Magic to be a suspect? I will be pondering..... If you would like to chat I will be in the chat room for a bit. -Thomas Phifer
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Veritaserum - Jan 24, 2005 2:56 pm (#2464 of 2923)
Go Jays!
I don't know if I want all the questions to be answered in the 7th book. The really big, obvious and nagging ones, sure, but I want a little to speculate about. Like what if she never tells us if Harry lives or dies? (Kinda like The Giver until the sequels came out)
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Liz Mann - Jan 24, 2005 5:28 pm (#2465 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
It would be nice if there were things left unsolved. In fact, most likely there will be as she probably doesn't know all our questions. It'll give her things to answer in interviews. Plus keep our little community going, hopefully.
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Ann - Jan 25, 2005 5:53 am (#2466 of 2923)
Okay, a few unanswered questions would be okay. But whether Harry lives or dies???!?!?!! Noooooooooo.......!!!
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Helen Potterfan - Jan 25, 2005 8:13 am (#2467 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
BN.com has this description of the Deluxe Edition: "The Deluxe Edition will include a slipcase with unique art and a 32-page insert with the black and white art from the interior blown up to full page size." That makes me think that there are 32 chapters since the interior art is usually at the beginning of the chapters. It's $42 (list price $60)!!! I don't know if I can pay that. The library edition is $34.99
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jan 25, 2005 5:11 pm (#2468 of 2923)
I just searched Amazon and I found out that HBP will be the second volume to have a deluxe edition issued.
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Helen Potterfan - Jan 25, 2005 5:30 pm (#2469 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
yes, that's right. Order of the Phoenix has a deluxe edition, but it's listed as having the same number of pages, so it's different from the HBP deluxe edition. Did anyone buy the OoP Deluxe? Was it worth the extra price?
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Rosie - Jan 26, 2005 4:13 am (#2470 of 2923)
If you do not want to buy HBP at a high price you can order it NOW at WHSmiths for £9.99 until April 2nd.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 26, 2005 9:32 am (#2471 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 26, 2005 8:32 am
I remember paying $49.99 for Goblet of Fire!(or something like that) I probably got ripped off. By the way how do pounds covert to dollars? Rosie you say you can get the book for 10 pounds but how much is that in American Dollars? $50 dollars can buy a new high quality portable cd player for example.
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Catherine - Jan 26, 2005 11:06 am (#2472 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I don't know the conversion for British pounds to dollars at the minute, but both Amazon and Barnes and Noble are listing the price of HBP as $17.99. Amazon will ship for free if it is over $25; Barnes and Noble offers free shipping and said the book will arrive in 3 or fewer days.
The library edition necessarily costs more because it has a sewn binding, but I do not have the exact price for that now, either, although it has shown up on the Forum in the past few days.
EDIT: 1 USD = 0.530540 GBP as of 1:07 p.m. today. That gives the price that Rosie quoted to be about $18.99 in American dollars. Hope that is helpful.
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Eliza - Jan 26, 2005 1:39 pm (#2473 of 2923)
Also, if you have a Barnes & Noble in your area you can pre-order with the store at the online pre-order price and pick it up as soon as it is released. If not, you may want to check with other bookstores in your area and see if they are offering the same deal.
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Catherine - Jan 26, 2005 3:05 pm (#2474 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Good point, Eliza, and I would say that from my experience with OoP that people who went to the midnight release at Barnes and Noble without reserving a copy in advance were unable to go home with a book that evening. It doesn't cost anything to reserve your copy, and at our store, one's place in line was determined by the date of the reservation.
I myself have reserved two copies, as I don't share well or play nicely with others when it comes to a new Harry Potter book!
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 26, 2005 5:41 pm (#2475 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 26, 2005 4:43 pm
Thank You Catherine! That was very helpful information. I can now make a decision on buying at release date or pre-ordering. And the pounds to dollars info was very interesting. For anyone reading this: I will be in the chat room for a bit, so if you would like to chat by all means pop in!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 26, 2005 7:24 pm (#2476 of 2923)
I have a friend whose birthday is the 15th of July. We were planning on going to our local Borders, celebrating her birthday with a cup of coffee and picking up our books at midnight. When we called they said they were not planning anything! Guess I'll have to go to the grocery store at midnight and get my copies. It worked well with OoP. LPO
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James Greenfield - Jan 27, 2005 2:15 am (#2477 of 2923)
"We were planning on going to our local Borders ..." "When we called they said they were not planning anything!" :LPO
LPO: My local Borders said the same sort of thing before OotP came out. They were not even going to be open the night before it came out. But about a week before the release date, when they found out what competing bookstores were doing, they suddenly decided to remain open after their normal 9 PM closing, and to let Potter fans stay in the store until midnight, when we lined up for our copies. So, don't give up.
I had about three hours of fun in my Cornelius Fudge outfit, acting pompous and misinformed. (My wife went dressed as Minerva McGonagall, in a bold tartan and academic robes.) I think we can reprise those roles this coming July.
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 27, 2005 9:50 am (#2478 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Wow! James Greenfield, you make my fan enthusiasm look like simple hobby! Dressing up as Fudge!? And your wife dressed as Mcgonnagal? Wow you are so lucky to have a relationship so close with someone in which you both love Harry Potter. I am envious. I have plenty of Potter stuff all over my room and in the house but I have never dressed up as any of the characters. And you seem to be adults (seeing as how you are married) and adults usually don't admit they read HP. You are an adult with a great enthusiasm for the world of HP and I am proud to have fellow fans such as you and your wife.
I think it may be time for me to take it up a notch myself. - - - - - - - - - -
Eliza - Jan 27, 2005 1:03 pm (#2479 of 2923)
I have never dressed as a character but I think that may have a lot more to do with having two little ones and lack of extra funds and time. I only recently bought all the books on Ebay though I have read them all twice from the library(and am now reading my copies). The library considers me an obsessed fan but this will be the first HP book that I will be buying new. The funny thing is that my best friend has never read any of the books, however, she has seen the movies, and she dressed as Hermione for Halloween this year and was absolutely thrilled to borrow my Gyffindor patch that I was lucky enough to receive with my Ebay purchase.
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Catherine - Jan 27, 2005 1:06 pm (#2480 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I think this thread needs to come back to the topic of the Half-Blood Prince.
I take responsibility for posting the information about the book, but now that people are discussing costumes and gatherings, I think we're really off topic.
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The giant squid - Jan 27, 2005 3:58 pm (#2481 of 2923)
Adults usually don't admit they read HP
Well, except around here...I think we've got more adults (not"grown-ups") here than kids most of the time.
Catherine, the thread title is HP6: The Half Blood Prince, so it refers to the book itself, not just the character of the HBP. That said, you're right that costumes, etc. are off topic.
So, a bookly observation: In each book the time spent before getting to Hogwarts increases. If Harry is going to be spending the least time ever at Privet Drive, do you think he'll be rushed to the school or spend even more time elsewhere? I'm leaning toward the latter. One of the "growing up" things happening in these books is that school is less and less important as time goes on. Unlike in PS/SS, Harry's life does not revolve around Hogwarts--he has contact with friends outsode of school, his most exciting adventures take place off-campus. This is why I agree with the theory that Harry ends up at Spinners End (whether region or home) for a while before school. We've seen Hogwarts; now Jo's letting us see other parts of the wizarding world.
Hmm...yeah, that was almost coherent.
--Mike
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Eliza - Jan 27, 2005 4:27 pm (#2482 of 2923)
I agree that Harry will be somewhere other than Hogwarts for a while. We know from Jo's rumours section that Harry will be leaving "the Dursleys early for a much pleasanter reason than a court case". So I guess we can rule out our earlier theory that it is because his life is in danger because I would not consider that "pleasant". I guess there is a possibility that he may be going to stay with Fred and George. He did get them started in their new lives and they were the ones that helped him escape the Dursleys via the flying car in his second year. The interesting thing is whether or not they would invite Ron to stay too. They seem to be closer to Harry then Ron. They just seem to relate better to him (example: In OoP, they give Harry the Mauraders' Map and Ron wants to know why they never gave it to him.)
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James Greenfield - Jan 28, 2005 2:27 am (#2483 of 2923)
My apology, I was badly Off Topic (goes to iron hands, bangs head against wall). I have read the entries in this thread for a long time, and cannot guess what will happen in HBP any better than anyone else.
I hope the HBP turns out to be Goderic Gryffindor, but if it is Hagrid or Neville or Dean, that's OK too.I hope Harry grows up a bit faster than in OotP: he needs to get his act together to fight LV and the DEs.(But, I remember I was very awkward and immature in my teens, so who knows.)
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Thomas Phifer - Jan 28, 2005 8:08 am (#2484 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jan 28, 2005 7:10 am
* ON TOPIC *
The only "pleasant" reasons I can think that Harry will be leaving the Dursley's for are:
1. Harry stays with the Weasleys and Ron
2. Stays with Fred and George and we get to check out their new shop
3. Harry goes back to 12 Grimauld Place (would that be "pleasant"? or not?)
4. Harry stays with Hermione! That would be different.
5.Goes to help someone do something, Mr. Weasley, Dumbledore, something, maybe for the Order.
Any other ideas anyone?
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TGF - Jan 28, 2005 10:28 am (#2485 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Technically not on topic, Tom. It relates to HP6, but there's a thread in this very section dedicated to Harry's shortest stay at Privet Drive yet.
I don't think Harry is going to Hermione's parents' house... They're just dentists, after all, what would be exciting about that? JKR seems to strive for the very minimum when it comes to them.
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Hollywand - Jan 28, 2005 3:29 pm (#2486 of 2923)
Gryffindor
TGF, that could be a red herring. The Muggle dentists were intitially a huge part of the first draft---
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TGF - Jan 28, 2005 4:54 pm (#2487 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Umm... where'd you hear that? The only thing I've ever heard from JKR about Hermione's parents is 'they're dentists, so they aren't very interesting'.
How would they ever be huge? They're dentists...
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Hollywand - Jan 28, 2005 5:32 pm (#2488 of 2923)
Gryffindor
The bit about Granger's parents is discussed on her website; the scrapbook bit, I believe, on the first chapter or in the Extra Stuff details.
The whole story line revolves around blood lineage, talented Muggle-borns, etc, Arthur punches Lucius in front of the Grangers in Flourish and Blotts. Arthur loves to tinker with Muggle machines, Harry and Volde both have Muggle relations. I'm not saying its definitely going to happen; I think they have potential as Hermione's supportive Muggle middle class parents.
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Ann - Jan 28, 2005 5:52 pm (#2489 of 2923)
I agree that the fact that Hermione's parents are Muggles and supportive of her magical education are tremendously important, Hollywand, but do you think that, as individuals, they would really have an important role in the books?
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Hollywand - Jan 28, 2005 6:23 pm (#2490 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Ann. Well, as you know, I am a rather addled Alchemist apologist. I have argued on the Alchemy thread that Wormtail's hand is quicksilver, or mercury. Bear with me in my twisted logic...
The only Muggle profession that works with Mercury to this very day is dentists. Hg is the chemical symbol for mercury, the Hermes, hmmm. Hermione's parents are both dentists. Dentists make an amalgam of Mercury and other metals such as tin, and stuff it into our tooth cavities.
If Hermione's parents fashion teeth, and work with mercury or quicksilver, and Arthur the Muggle loving wizard and Albus Dumbledore (the partner of Nicholas Flamel the alchemist) team up with our talented trio, we could have the toothy weapon that bites our Dark Lord in an inconvenient location----like Kansas, for example. ;-)
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The giant squid - Jan 29, 2005 2:29 am (#2491 of 2923)
We could have the toothy weapon that bites our Dark Lord in an inconvenient location
What, like the back seat of a Volkswagon?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 29, 2005 6:19 am (#2492 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Mike, what's wrong with backseat of a Volkswagon? Somehow I don't see Voldie driving a Bug. Bugged by Harry maybe, driven buggy maybe, but drive a Bug?, NEVER!
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Gerald Costales - Jan 29, 2005 7:29 am (#2493 of 2923)
(re: post# 2484)
3. Harry goes back to 12 Grimauld Place (would that be "pleasant"? or not?)
from Thomas Phifer's list
If Sirius left a "Will", he could have easily left 12GP to Harry. And it would be pleasant to kick Kreacher out on his sorry ear. That evil git!!! ;-) GC
PS Just think of all the cool stuff that would be there. Harry could even find something to help defeat Voldermort or contact Sirius. ;-) GC
PPS "The only Muggle profession that works with Mercury to this very day is dentists. Hg is the chemical symbol for mercury, the Hermes, hmmm. Hermione's parents are both dentists." Hollywand
Hg = Hermione Granger. Just an observation. ;-) GC
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mollis - Jan 29, 2005 8:13 am (#2494 of 2923)
Edited by Jan 29, 2005 7:14 am
"an inconvenient location----like Kansas, for example"
Hey! As a Kansas resident - I would kindly request that you send him somewhere else - like Antarctica.
(We don't have anyone posting from Antarctica, do we?
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Eliza - Jan 29, 2005 9:08 am (#2495 of 2923)
Mollis- I'm insulted I'm posted from Antarctica..... Just kidding, I am from Louisiana. As for Grimauld place. I really don't think that Sirius would have left a will. He really was not the type to think ahead. But as Siruis' godson, I think Harry may have claim to it.
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Marie E. - Jan 29, 2005 10:08 am (#2496 of 2923)
TBE, my brother the squid is quoting from a Kevin Smith movie. It's from Mallrats, I think.
If Grimmauld Place is willed to someone else, what happens to Kreacher? Is he actually booted out or does he stay in the family?
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Ann - Jan 29, 2005 10:53 am (#2497 of 2923)
Hollywand, the Mercury (Hg, Hermione Granger, Dentistry) connection is interesting, but if it were significant, you would have thought Hermione's last name would have been Granger all along. But on her "Extra Stuff" page, Jo says it was "Puckle" early on. (HP, now wouldn't that have been confusing!) So, interesting, but I would say most likely a coincidence.
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Gerald Costales - Jan 29, 2005 11:01 am (#2498 of 2923)
Yes, Marie E. there is a "Who's Going to Inherit 12 Grimmauld Place?" thread.
Back on topic. Why isn't there any more support for Remus being the HBP? I like Hagrid but can't take him seriously as a canidate for the HBP.
Remus is a Half-Blood. Just because he doesn't look the part, Remus does have an aura about him. From the first we met him on the Hogwarts Express, Remus's handling of the Dementors created a strong sense of authority. Finally, Remus has been the only effective DADA teacher and with Sirius gone who else for Harry to turn to for advise.
If Remus could teach Harry a Patronus Charm, what other magic could he teach Harry? Especially with the Series winding down, Harry needs a strong and able mentor. ;-) GC
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Ann - Jan 29, 2005 11:18 am (#2499 of 2923)
Gerald: "Harry needs a strong and able mentor"
And Dumbledore isn't enough??
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Hollywand - Jan 29, 2005 11:23 am (#2500 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Ann, "Grangerizing" is a clever pun on Granger. Puck is a well known narration charcter. I don't want to belabor the point here, but both Granger and Puckle identify Hermione Granger as the messenger, the narrator, the author.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2501 to 2550)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:09 am
Ann - Jan 29, 2005 11:33 am (#2501 of 2923)
I don't know, Hollywand. I can't see Hermione as the sort of borrower/thief of others' ideas and creations that associating her with "Grangerizing" (cutting pieces out of old manuscripts) would imply. She's far too original for that.
(And we're way off topic, I fear.)
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Veritaserum - Jan 29, 2005 12:42 pm (#2502 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Okay, going back on topic (again), have we thoroughly discussed exactly what we think the term "half-blood prince" means? Frinstance, is it a prince who happens to be a half-blood, a prince of the half-bloods, is "prince" a figurative or derogatory name, or a nickname? Does anyone really know what we're looking for in our speculation of who the HBP is?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 29, 2005 3:09 pm (#2503 of 2923)
I think we can take the term Prince literally. That it means royalty. We already know Half Blood is someone with a wizarding parent and a Muggle parent. I think whoever the HBP is we can be sure he is very strong. Voldemort is strong and Harry is becoming stronger. I like the thought of Remus being the HBP but I don't think so. My guess is he will be a new character. LPO
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Hollywand - Jan 29, 2005 3:35 pm (#2504 of 2923)
Gryffindor
My sickles are on Viktor Krum. Archangel found a wonderful reference to Khan Krum, ruler of Bulgaria, an actual historical figure who was fair but consistently challenged by his neighbors in Albania, to their own destruction. Albania? Hmmm.
Dumbledore stresses his desire to have the support of the foreign wizarding community in the war, and I think we may see these elements return in the concluing books.
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TGF - Jan 29, 2005 4:45 pm (#2505 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Khan Krum, eh? So then maybe he'll turn out to be a bad guy after all, and then Harry can...
... No, I won't say it, though it's sorely, sorely tempting to.
Who would his parents have to be for him to be *literal* royalty? Prince Charles and Bellatrix? I really don't think this is going to be a 'real' Prince any more than Voldemort is a 'real' Lord. It's either a self-assigned title or a nickname, depending upon what kind of person the guy turns out to be.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 29, 2005 5:31 pm (#2506 of 2923)
TGF I like that, Prince Charles and Bellatrix.! LOL Why can't their be Wizarding Royalty? Perhaps from a different country. Krum is an interesting suspect. Books one, three and five have similar themes. Books two and four share similarities. I would not be surprised if it is someone from book four. LPO
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Star Crossed - Jan 29, 2005 6:11 pm (#2507 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Previously, someone mentioned about why Remus is such an unpopular choice. Being one of the first to squish this theory, I think it's only right for me to say something:
Remus was introduced in the third book. This could have happened in CoS. Can you imagine smushing CoS and PoA together into one book? I don't think it could work out.
I think Prince is a real term, and I really can't see someone that poor being a prince.
What could we gain from him being a prince? I think if we get anything else out of Remus, it'll be something about MWPP.
Personally, I'm on the Godric Gryffindor boat. That way JKR doesn't have to explain what's been happening to the prince the past five years.
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Archangel - Jan 29, 2005 8:27 pm (#2508 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
The results of Scholastic's poll of who readers think the HBP will be are out. It's weird though because Neville's got the highest number of responses. Isn't Neville a pure-blood?
I'm for Viktor Krum as HBP. I think the word "Khan" has a negative association because of Genghis Khan. But "Khan" in Bulgaria is just what they call their King or ruler and doesn't really indicate if that ruler is a bad person or not. Actually, Khan Krum was one of the best rulers that country ever had. Hey, if the HBP doesn't turn out to be him, butterbeers and treacle tarts on me!
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TGF - Jan 29, 2005 8:35 pm (#2509 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
... Can't... resist...
And then, if he turns out to be bad and Harry confronts him, he can yell: " KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! "
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Archangel - Jan 29, 2005 8:39 pm (#2510 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
O...k... that made me laugh even though I don't know where that came from...
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TGF - Jan 29, 2005 8:54 pm (#2511 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
You don't know where that came from?!?! WHAT? ... WHAT?!?! ... KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!
T'was a line spoken by the venerable Kirk in Star Trek 2: Wrath of Khan... Kids these days! They'll know all about obscure Bulgarian Monarchs, and nothing about the *real* classics! I recommend you head to your local video store to begin your penance right now, young man/lady.
Now, more seriously:
Someone noted above that it would be awkward if Lupin were the Half-Blood Prince, because this story was originally placed in Book 2 (and we just couldn't have had Lupin coming in before book 3). By the same token, I think it's just completely inconceiveable that Krum could potentially have had an entire book about him before Book 4. You could argue that that's why she moved it back to book 6, but I really don't think JKR would ever even consider putting Krum in so early a book. It has to be someone who COULD have been the star of Book 2, but for whatever reason wasn't.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 29, 2005 9:25 pm (#2512 of 2923)
LOL TGF I love Ricardo Monteban (sp) as Khan.
If it is someone who is mentioned in book two Godric has a better chance of it. Or Godric's remaining heir. There has to be more to the "it takes a true Gryffindor to pull that out of the hat" statement. LPO
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Veritaserum - Jan 29, 2005 11:05 pm (#2513 of 2923)
Go Jays!
So, wait a sec...I guess I was always picturing the HBP to be an actual physically present character-- perhaps it's just someone Harry references to or something, like if SS was called HP and Nicolas Flamel.
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Archangel - Jan 29, 2005 11:49 pm (#2514 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
LOL TGF! This forum never ceases to amaze me...
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Gerald Costales - Jan 30, 2005 8:11 am (#2515 of 2923)
(Re: post# 2507)
"I think Prince is a real term, and I really can't see someone that poor being a prince." Star Crossed
I've argued that if Remus was a Prince, what better way to deprive Remus of his throne than to sic a werewolf on him. Heirs of thrones are often victims of rivals or enemies. The last heir to the Austro-Hungary Empire, Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophia were assassinated in Sarajevo. That assassination became the event that triggered WWI.
The last Czar Nicholas was impoverished at the end. Wealth is not the measure of true Royalty. Remus has a noble bearing and would make a good Prince. I’m argued the Godric Gryffindor camp for the HBP. But, until we known for certain any reasonable male is a valid candidate for the HBP.
I like Neville, but really NEVILLE the HBP! I believe Trevor will sit on a throne (after a kiss from a Princess) before Neville receives a Crown. ;-) GC
PS But, then again Neville’s next wand maybe a scepter. You never know. And Krum is maybe a Khan but not a Prince. Krum, Prince of what, the Golden Snitch!
In regards to Prince being real term remember, “Weasley is our King!” And Ron will more likely become King before Filch becomes the Prince of Squibs. ;-) GC
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Betelgeuse Black - Jan 30, 2005 8:40 am (#2516 of 2923)
Hello all. We again go into the HBP definition.
1. The HBP could be a half-blood that is a prince. 2. The HBP could be a prince (pure-blooded or not) that supports the half-blood wizards. 3. The HBP could be a supporter of the half-bloods in such a way that he is called a prince whether he is royal or not.
I think there is support for all the options. I really can't guess myself, because each one has valid arguments... Well, number 3 would be a bit less likely in my humble opinion.
One thing that I think is tacit is that the HBP will champion the rights of the half-blood wizards/witches against the prejudices against them. I think this is true from the themes of CoS, Hermione's SPEW and Umbridge's prejudices.
I'm sure this has been talked through many times but since we're still waiting on the real answer, why not talk it through again?
Betelgeuse
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TGF - Jan 30, 2005 11:34 am (#2517 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I hope that post is meant to imply that you're on your way to that video store, Archangel.
In regards to that Scholastic poll... I don't know why anyone would think it would be Neville when it's been explicitly stated time and time again that he's a pure-blood.
Unless Remus has an evil Edmund-esque half-brother, I can't really envision the 'sick a werewolf on him to rob him of his throne/inheritence' scenario. But that, of course, begs the question as to whether or not he has such a brother. Romulus and Remus after all...
But if the 'Prince' is a literal royal, and is also an Englishman, why haven't we heard anything about any sort of Magical King (or Queen), even in passing, in the last five books? Where are all the Magical Royal watchers? Shouldn't there be some Daily Prophet articles talking about how this Prince dressed up as a Death Eater at a costume party or what not? If this is real royalty we're talking about then at least a part of it should be visible.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jan 30, 2005 11:39 am (#2518 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Solitaire, I am answering the question you asked me on the spouses thread here, since this is the proper place to discuss it.
No, I don't have any actual proof that Draco's grandfather secretly married a muggle, but I will explain why I think he did.
JKR said this about CoS:
In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six.
I tried to come up with possible storylines about all the characters that would have fit into CoS, been important enough to be the title, and would have revealed something important too soon. The only thing that I came up with that seems to fit is that the HBP storyline will lead to the revelation that the Malfoys are not pure-blooded, and HBP will be a nickname given to Draco.
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Ydnam96 - Jan 30, 2005 11:48 am (#2519 of 2923)
I really think that the HBP may be a historical character that we have heard a little about but not really gotten to know.
I Am Used Vlad, that is a very interesting theory, in all honesty I haven't read through all the posts on this thread (I hit recent instead there were too many from the last time I was here). Anyway. I think it would be hilarious if Malfoy wasn't a pureblood since he, and his family, put so much importance on that!
On another note: which book was it where JK had to take out the Weasley cousin because she revealed too much of the story line? I've alwasy wondered about that. Could she have known the truth about whomever is the HBP? Also, did JK say how old she was, would she have been a peer of the kids or an older cousin? I think that would add an interesting dynamic if she was a peer of Lucius and somehow knew that Grandpa Malfoy had an affair...
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I Am Used Vlad - Jan 30, 2005 12:20 pm (#2520 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
She would have been in GoF, so I doubt she has anything to do with the HBP.
The new character who JKR gave a description of a while back could know the Malfoy's secret. Dobby could, as well.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 30, 2005 1:01 pm (#2521 of 2923)
TGF in each book we learn many new things about the Wizarding World. Harry would have no idea about royalty any more than he did Quidditch, Azkaban., other wizarding schools or the Order of the Phoenix. LOL about the Prince being dressed up in a DE costume! He might be forced to visit Godrics Hollow. Maybe the monarchy has been overthrown and it is a character like "Bonnie Prince Charlie" a person of royal bloodline but considerable difficulty in claiming the throne. LPO
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TGF - Jan 30, 2005 1:52 pm (#2522 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, OotP is a secret organization, of course he didn't know about it.
He reads the paper (yes, I know he wasn't reading it thoroughly in B5, but he still reads it enough). I'm not from Britain, but just by reading the BBC World News, I know that 'Royal stories' are a popular topic in the British press.
If this is a royal family we're dealing with, then it's almost certainly (like you said) a royal family in exile. We've learned way too much about the British Ministry of Magic, its operation and setup, for us to have a monarchy sprung on us. If there's a prominent Magic Monarchy in Britain (and you can't say this is a fresh idea of Rowling's, because she's had this story in mind since book 2), *someone* should have said something about it by now, even in passing.
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mike miller - Jan 30, 2005 4:42 pm (#2523 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Vlad - It was JKR's comment that you posted that pointed be toward Godric Gryffindor. We learn about Salazar Slytherin in CoS and that he had a "falling out" with his long time friend Godric Gryffindor. However, we learn very little about Godric.
Since the themes of "choices" and "blood" prejudice are central to the books, it seems logical that these 2 ideals played out in the Slytherin/Gryffindor split.
Just my 2 knuts worth....
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Veritaserum - Jan 30, 2005 5:52 pm (#2524 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Okay, how about the HBP is a bad guy? He's half-blood but he hates it and is bitter about the whole thing...you know, like I'm sure Voldemort hated hearing about his Muggle mother and whatnot (I know Voldy's not the HBP, but it's just an analogy). That's something I have at least not thought of before.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jan 30, 2005 7:49 pm (#2525 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
It could be Godric, mike, but I don't think someone who is, presumably, long dead would be important enough to have a book named for him. Why would details of the Slytherin/Gryffindor split give too much away in book 2? Actually, I could answer this question myself, but doubt that Harry and Voldemort are just the last players in an ancient vendetta. If this were the case, JKR never would have considered putting it in the second book.
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Weeny Owl - Jan 30, 2005 10:34 pm (#2526 of 2923)
The Half-Blood Prince doesn't have to be a person.
Since the Malfoys were brought up, remember that they had a great deal of stuff under their parlor floor they didn't want anyone finding out about.
The Half-Blood Prince could be a book, although probably not another diary.
It could be a statue, a jewel, or any other object.
It's probably a person, but with JKR, there's no way of knowing.
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vball man - Jan 30, 2005 10:45 pm (#2527 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Yeah, I suppose. But JKR said, "The HBP is neither Harry nor Voldemort." It seems that she's thinking of "person" for category.
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TGF - Jan 30, 2005 10:51 pm (#2528 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Even if it were a book, the book would have to be about *someone*... A book can't just be called "The Half-Blood Prince" and be about how to take care of a Hippogriff.
Could be a statue though... a statue of a person. not a jewel, who's going to name a jewel 'Half-Blood Prince'? No matter which you shake it, there has to be an actual person involved here.
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LadyLozreena - Jan 31, 2005 3:29 am (#2529 of 2923)
Has it occurred to anyone that Hagrid is the Half Blood Prince? Or am I completely wrong!!??
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Weeny Owl - Jan 31, 2005 4:41 am (#2530 of 2923)
Yes, she's probably talking about a person, but again, who knows with her.
Well, TGF, if a diamond can be called the Pink Panther, why can't a jewel be called the Half-Blood Prince?
I do think it's really a person, but there's always a possibility that it could be something completely different.
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LadyLozreena - Jan 31, 2005 8:57 am (#2531 of 2923)
Where did this idea come from that the HBP might not be a person. Don't think thats possible myself! I think its definitely Hagrid and I'm sticking by it! He's a half-blood. There are so many reasons why he should be the prince!!! Someone please give me your thoughts on this!!
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Catherine - Jan 31, 2005 9:09 am (#2532 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Edited Jan 31, 2005 10:30 am
Lady Lozreena,
You might find it helpful to use the "Search" function to help you find what you are looking for. I know that there was much discussion of Hagrid as a possibility for the HBP when the title of the sixth book was revealed; I discussed it myself.
As for where the idea of the HBP not being a person originated, the Search function might help you there, too. I know the threads can be long and intimidating, so I hope you find this advice helpful.
EDIT: Here's a post I made this summer considering Hagrid as the possible HBP: Catherine, "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #262, 30 Jun 2004 6:18 am
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Rosie - Jan 31, 2005 11:02 am (#2533 of 2923)
I agree that Draco could be the HBP; remember that Hagrid said that ALL wizards and witches were half-blood or less (COS) - otherwise they would of all died out! Of course the 'pure bloods' try to keep their Muggle relations a sercet as much as possible. Maybe THIS has something to do with 'Draco's Detour'.
Seeing that no royalty has turned up in the Daily Prophet it is quite likely that HBP is used derisory (like Welsey is our King).
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GryffEndora - Jan 31, 2005 12:48 pm (#2534 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Just had a crazy thought about who the HBP might be. Sorry if this has already been said but I havent got through this entire thread. On a whim I looked up the birth date of Prince Harry of Wales. He was born September 15th, 1984. If he were a wizard, he would have turned 11 in 1995 and had to wait until 1996 (Harry 6th year) to recieve his Hogwarts letter and start study at Hogwarts. What if the HBP is a member of the royal family, not literally prince Harry but the JKR equivelant of prince Harry? I just found it an interesting coincidence (if we choose to believe in coincidence here).
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Veritaserum - Jan 31, 2005 3:18 pm (#2535 of 2923)
Go Jays!
No, I do not think JKR would make such a connection to the real modern day world. The only references to real things are either general or historic. I still don't jive with the whole, "oh yeah, it's been six years but I've forgotten to mention the thing about royalty" idea. I'm going with my recent theory about it being a bad guy (although the statue idea had some merit, in my opinion.)
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GryffEndora - Feb 1, 2005 9:55 am (#2536 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Let me clarify my previous statement. I am not saying I think JKR is going to write a real life person into Hogwarts. I was simply noting an interesting (to me) coincidence in age and title (Prince). If a member of the royal family were to attend Hogwarts I think it would be a fictional member in a fictional royal family who may exist in some sort of Harry Potter World parallel to our own. The same way that there in a US president in "The West Wing" who is not President Bush, but lives a parallel political life that comments on many issues that President Bush deals with.
Do I really think this is the HBP? Not really. I prefer the Hagrid, Flitwick and Gryffindor theories. I just thought it was an interesting coincidence to share. I apologize if I wasted your time.
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mike miller - Feb 1, 2005 5:49 pm (#2537 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Vlad - My thoughts on the Gryffindor/Slytherin split is that it was born out of the "blood prejudice" that seems to be a major theme for Voldemort. Yes, the irony is very deep with Voldemort's own parentage. I see at least 2 central themes; that of making individual choices and the fight against prejudice and privilege. Also, just because the name is part of the title does not mean that it is central to the story. I would argue that most elements that we've seen in the titles only play a minor role or are even used in only one scene. They are not central to storyline or the issues being addressed in each book.
As JKR has stated on her website, every child who shows any magical ability by age eleven is given the opportunity to attend Hogwarts. JKR is making a strong statement about her magical world. We have seen in our own world that prejudice is a very difficult demon to slay.
As I have reread CoS I have looked for other signs of a possible half story line and I cannot see one beyond Gryffindor/Slytherin. That's not say that it's not there, I've just been unable to find it!
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Veritaserum - Feb 1, 2005 6:04 pm (#2538 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Mike, I have to slightly disagree with your statement about book titles. In the first three books, the title named the object that the mystery was centered around, or what the main characters were looking for. GoF and OoP were both a stray from that. I agree that the titles of both those books were not that vital to the plot. It's hard to say which trend HBP will fall into.
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mike miller - Feb 1, 2005 7:36 pm (#2539 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Veritaserum - I'll conceed your point on PoA, although I think the importance of what we learned about Harry's parents, friends and the first war with Voldemort may be more important the Sirius alone.
However, I think in the first two books the title items (the Stone and the Chamber) are mere plot devices. The Stone is little more than the device that could return Voldemort to power, a foreshadowing of events to come. Yes it's something the trio are concerned about, but I see the first book more of an introduction to the characters and their exploration of the magical world. The Chamber itself plays even less a role being nothing more than the venue for Harry's second meeting with Voldemort. The story is about prejudice.
Just my 2 knuts worth, feel free to disagree.
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 1, 2005 7:47 pm (#2540 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I think JKR said that the HBP storyline will be what the bulk of the new book is about. She also said that it would have given too much away it book 2. I agree that the back story on the Gryffindor/Slytherin ties in nicely with several of the series' themes, but just can't see it as being that important. That said, Gryffindor is currently second on my list of possible HBPs, behind Draco and ahead of New Character.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 3, 2005 7:13 am (#2541 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 3, 2005 6:14 am
New Topic* What or Whose wand do you think Sirrius was using when he died? Surely his was taken and snapped in half when he entered azkaban. Maybe he had another one perhaps? Maybe Dumbledore bought him one..... Take it away everyone
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Ainsley Black - Feb 3, 2005 7:20 am (#2542 of 2923)
They've been discussing that on the Sirius Black thread.
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Denise P. - Feb 3, 2005 11:04 am (#2543 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
Thomas, that is already being discussed. Please don't ask the same question on several threads.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 3, 2005 9:28 pm (#2544 of 2923)
Vlad, I am curious, why do you consider Draco as a candidate for HBP? I thought the books made it clear he is a pureblood. I am leaning to a new character. LPO
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feline devil - Feb 4, 2005 8:40 am (#2545 of 2923)
I think that the most likely to be the HBP is Dean Thomas. First, he is a halfblood. Second, he doesn't, know who his father is.(He could probably be a royalty of some kind) And third JKR says on her site that Deans story was on the early draft of CoS. All of this points towards Dean being the HBP, but I can't help thinking that it seems to obvious in a way and she wouldn't have all that information about him on her site if he really was. These are just my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if it's been discussed before.
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Catherine - Feb 4, 2005 8:50 am (#2546 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
These are just my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if it's been discussed before. --Feline Devil
Thanks for posting, Feline Devil. In case you didn't know, the Forum has a "Search" function in which you can search the whole Forum, or just within a certain thread. This is much easier than trying to read all the old posts.
See you around the Forum!
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 4, 2005 8:59 am (#2547 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 4, 2005 8:10 am
Here is a list of purebloods who, supposedly couldn't be HBP.
Pureblood:
Black family (now died out with the death of Sirrius Black)
Crouch family (now died out with the deaths of Barty Crouch Sr. and Jr.)
Lestrange family (married into by Bellatrix Black)
Longbottom family (Neville)
Malfoy family (Lucius - Draco)
Weasley family
The above information is from the Lexicon it self.
Draco is Pureblood according to the Lexicon, however there are pretty good theories about the Chapter named Draco's Detour.
It can't be anyone in the Black family, except for the theories that Sirius's brother is still alive somehow and is going around as that famous singer that showed up in the Quibbler that looked like Sirius.
However,
JK could still be talking about someone deceased, for instance: Godric Griffindor. I cant remember if it has been said anywhere confirming his blood but considering he did not like Slytherin, it wouldnt be rash to say he might be half blood himself although he seems to be too powerful a wizard to be halfblooded. There are plenty of dead people who could be HBP.
New Characters: I have heard roumors about GG being the lion man but GG is dead. The sorting hat said so in one of his songs, "Now they're all dead and gone.." or something like that.
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MickeyCee3948 - Feb 4, 2005 11:48 am (#2548 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Thomas Phifer "I can't remember if it has been said anywhere confirming his blood but considering he did not like Slytherin".
Where does it say they didn't like each other. The sorting hat says they were the closest of friends but had a falling out or something like that sorry don't have access to my books right now. They could have been the best of friends and just disagreed about magical instruction to non-pure blood wizards and witches.
Mikie
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 4, 2005 12:44 pm (#2549 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 4, 2005 11:54 am
Well I guess what I really meant was: Considering GG did not like Slytherin's way of doing things (teaching only purebloods) maybe he wasn't pureblood himself. Ofcourse I think that HH and RR may have disliked Slytherin's way of doing things also, so....
Hi everyone! Talk to me in the Lexicon Chat Room or MSN (phifer7@hotmail.com) or AOL (tunit000) or Yahoo (thomas_phifer)
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Joelle - Feb 4, 2005 1:55 pm (#2550 of 2923)
OK, quick note. The kahn reference was amazing. You are awesome. I'm a Trekkie and I love the old movies.
Also The Half-Blood Prince would seem to me to be more of a person, however there is always that chance that it could be a jewel or statue or something. As for Godric and Slytherin, I would assume (assuming being an inaccurate word) but that their disagreement arose over the muggle born issue. However since JKR is big on showing that the bad guys aren't all evil (Snape) perhaps it was over something else. I think that this dynamic would have been the edited storyline from COS. It fits it rather nicely and wouldn't require a lot of rewritting when she took it out. I can also see how it would play a more important part now since the 2nd war has begun.
-Joelle
P.S. It was a lot of work to catch up after 1 month gone.
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I don't know, Hollywand. I can't see Hermione as the sort of borrower/thief of others' ideas and creations that associating her with "Grangerizing" (cutting pieces out of old manuscripts) would imply. She's far too original for that.
(And we're way off topic, I fear.)
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Veritaserum - Jan 29, 2005 12:42 pm (#2502 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Okay, going back on topic (again), have we thoroughly discussed exactly what we think the term "half-blood prince" means? Frinstance, is it a prince who happens to be a half-blood, a prince of the half-bloods, is "prince" a figurative or derogatory name, or a nickname? Does anyone really know what we're looking for in our speculation of who the HBP is?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 29, 2005 3:09 pm (#2503 of 2923)
I think we can take the term Prince literally. That it means royalty. We already know Half Blood is someone with a wizarding parent and a Muggle parent. I think whoever the HBP is we can be sure he is very strong. Voldemort is strong and Harry is becoming stronger. I like the thought of Remus being the HBP but I don't think so. My guess is he will be a new character. LPO
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Hollywand - Jan 29, 2005 3:35 pm (#2504 of 2923)
Gryffindor
My sickles are on Viktor Krum. Archangel found a wonderful reference to Khan Krum, ruler of Bulgaria, an actual historical figure who was fair but consistently challenged by his neighbors in Albania, to their own destruction. Albania? Hmmm.
Dumbledore stresses his desire to have the support of the foreign wizarding community in the war, and I think we may see these elements return in the concluing books.
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TGF - Jan 29, 2005 4:45 pm (#2505 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Khan Krum, eh? So then maybe he'll turn out to be a bad guy after all, and then Harry can...
... No, I won't say it, though it's sorely, sorely tempting to.
Who would his parents have to be for him to be *literal* royalty? Prince Charles and Bellatrix? I really don't think this is going to be a 'real' Prince any more than Voldemort is a 'real' Lord. It's either a self-assigned title or a nickname, depending upon what kind of person the guy turns out to be.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 29, 2005 5:31 pm (#2506 of 2923)
TGF I like that, Prince Charles and Bellatrix.! LOL Why can't their be Wizarding Royalty? Perhaps from a different country. Krum is an interesting suspect. Books one, three and five have similar themes. Books two and four share similarities. I would not be surprised if it is someone from book four. LPO
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Star Crossed - Jan 29, 2005 6:11 pm (#2507 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Previously, someone mentioned about why Remus is such an unpopular choice. Being one of the first to squish this theory, I think it's only right for me to say something:
Remus was introduced in the third book. This could have happened in CoS. Can you imagine smushing CoS and PoA together into one book? I don't think it could work out.
I think Prince is a real term, and I really can't see someone that poor being a prince.
What could we gain from him being a prince? I think if we get anything else out of Remus, it'll be something about MWPP.
Personally, I'm on the Godric Gryffindor boat. That way JKR doesn't have to explain what's been happening to the prince the past five years.
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Archangel - Jan 29, 2005 8:27 pm (#2508 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
The results of Scholastic's poll of who readers think the HBP will be are out. It's weird though because Neville's got the highest number of responses. Isn't Neville a pure-blood?
I'm for Viktor Krum as HBP. I think the word "Khan" has a negative association because of Genghis Khan. But "Khan" in Bulgaria is just what they call their King or ruler and doesn't really indicate if that ruler is a bad person or not. Actually, Khan Krum was one of the best rulers that country ever had. Hey, if the HBP doesn't turn out to be him, butterbeers and treacle tarts on me!
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TGF - Jan 29, 2005 8:35 pm (#2509 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
... Can't... resist...
And then, if he turns out to be bad and Harry confronts him, he can yell: " KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN! "
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Archangel - Jan 29, 2005 8:39 pm (#2510 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
O...k... that made me laugh even though I don't know where that came from...
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TGF - Jan 29, 2005 8:54 pm (#2511 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
You don't know where that came from?!?! WHAT? ... WHAT?!?! ... KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!
T'was a line spoken by the venerable Kirk in Star Trek 2: Wrath of Khan... Kids these days! They'll know all about obscure Bulgarian Monarchs, and nothing about the *real* classics! I recommend you head to your local video store to begin your penance right now, young man/lady.
Now, more seriously:
Someone noted above that it would be awkward if Lupin were the Half-Blood Prince, because this story was originally placed in Book 2 (and we just couldn't have had Lupin coming in before book 3). By the same token, I think it's just completely inconceiveable that Krum could potentially have had an entire book about him before Book 4. You could argue that that's why she moved it back to book 6, but I really don't think JKR would ever even consider putting Krum in so early a book. It has to be someone who COULD have been the star of Book 2, but for whatever reason wasn't.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 29, 2005 9:25 pm (#2512 of 2923)
LOL TGF I love Ricardo Monteban (sp) as Khan.
If it is someone who is mentioned in book two Godric has a better chance of it. Or Godric's remaining heir. There has to be more to the "it takes a true Gryffindor to pull that out of the hat" statement. LPO
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Veritaserum - Jan 29, 2005 11:05 pm (#2513 of 2923)
Go Jays!
So, wait a sec...I guess I was always picturing the HBP to be an actual physically present character-- perhaps it's just someone Harry references to or something, like if SS was called HP and Nicolas Flamel.
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Archangel - Jan 29, 2005 11:49 pm (#2514 of 2923)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
LOL TGF! This forum never ceases to amaze me...
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Gerald Costales - Jan 30, 2005 8:11 am (#2515 of 2923)
(Re: post# 2507)
"I think Prince is a real term, and I really can't see someone that poor being a prince." Star Crossed
I've argued that if Remus was a Prince, what better way to deprive Remus of his throne than to sic a werewolf on him. Heirs of thrones are often victims of rivals or enemies. The last heir to the Austro-Hungary Empire, Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophia were assassinated in Sarajevo. That assassination became the event that triggered WWI.
The last Czar Nicholas was impoverished at the end. Wealth is not the measure of true Royalty. Remus has a noble bearing and would make a good Prince. I’m argued the Godric Gryffindor camp for the HBP. But, until we known for certain any reasonable male is a valid candidate for the HBP.
I like Neville, but really NEVILLE the HBP! I believe Trevor will sit on a throne (after a kiss from a Princess) before Neville receives a Crown. ;-) GC
PS But, then again Neville’s next wand maybe a scepter. You never know. And Krum is maybe a Khan but not a Prince. Krum, Prince of what, the Golden Snitch!
In regards to Prince being real term remember, “Weasley is our King!” And Ron will more likely become King before Filch becomes the Prince of Squibs. ;-) GC
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Betelgeuse Black - Jan 30, 2005 8:40 am (#2516 of 2923)
Hello all. We again go into the HBP definition.
1. The HBP could be a half-blood that is a prince. 2. The HBP could be a prince (pure-blooded or not) that supports the half-blood wizards. 3. The HBP could be a supporter of the half-bloods in such a way that he is called a prince whether he is royal or not.
I think there is support for all the options. I really can't guess myself, because each one has valid arguments... Well, number 3 would be a bit less likely in my humble opinion.
One thing that I think is tacit is that the HBP will champion the rights of the half-blood wizards/witches against the prejudices against them. I think this is true from the themes of CoS, Hermione's SPEW and Umbridge's prejudices.
I'm sure this has been talked through many times but since we're still waiting on the real answer, why not talk it through again?
Betelgeuse
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TGF - Jan 30, 2005 11:34 am (#2517 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I hope that post is meant to imply that you're on your way to that video store, Archangel.
In regards to that Scholastic poll... I don't know why anyone would think it would be Neville when it's been explicitly stated time and time again that he's a pure-blood.
Unless Remus has an evil Edmund-esque half-brother, I can't really envision the 'sick a werewolf on him to rob him of his throne/inheritence' scenario. But that, of course, begs the question as to whether or not he has such a brother. Romulus and Remus after all...
But if the 'Prince' is a literal royal, and is also an Englishman, why haven't we heard anything about any sort of Magical King (or Queen), even in passing, in the last five books? Where are all the Magical Royal watchers? Shouldn't there be some Daily Prophet articles talking about how this Prince dressed up as a Death Eater at a costume party or what not? If this is real royalty we're talking about then at least a part of it should be visible.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jan 30, 2005 11:39 am (#2518 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Solitaire, I am answering the question you asked me on the spouses thread here, since this is the proper place to discuss it.
No, I don't have any actual proof that Draco's grandfather secretly married a muggle, but I will explain why I think he did.
JKR said this about CoS:
In fact, as everyone now knows, it was once called Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, but then I removed a whole storyline that did not work at all. It gave too much information too early, so I pulled it out and it became a major part, but not the only part, of book six.
I tried to come up with possible storylines about all the characters that would have fit into CoS, been important enough to be the title, and would have revealed something important too soon. The only thing that I came up with that seems to fit is that the HBP storyline will lead to the revelation that the Malfoys are not pure-blooded, and HBP will be a nickname given to Draco.
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Ydnam96 - Jan 30, 2005 11:48 am (#2519 of 2923)
I really think that the HBP may be a historical character that we have heard a little about but not really gotten to know.
I Am Used Vlad, that is a very interesting theory, in all honesty I haven't read through all the posts on this thread (I hit recent instead there were too many from the last time I was here). Anyway. I think it would be hilarious if Malfoy wasn't a pureblood since he, and his family, put so much importance on that!
On another note: which book was it where JK had to take out the Weasley cousin because she revealed too much of the story line? I've alwasy wondered about that. Could she have known the truth about whomever is the HBP? Also, did JK say how old she was, would she have been a peer of the kids or an older cousin? I think that would add an interesting dynamic if she was a peer of Lucius and somehow knew that Grandpa Malfoy had an affair...
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I Am Used Vlad - Jan 30, 2005 12:20 pm (#2520 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
She would have been in GoF, so I doubt she has anything to do with the HBP.
The new character who JKR gave a description of a while back could know the Malfoy's secret. Dobby could, as well.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 30, 2005 1:01 pm (#2521 of 2923)
TGF in each book we learn many new things about the Wizarding World. Harry would have no idea about royalty any more than he did Quidditch, Azkaban., other wizarding schools or the Order of the Phoenix. LOL about the Prince being dressed up in a DE costume! He might be forced to visit Godrics Hollow. Maybe the monarchy has been overthrown and it is a character like "Bonnie Prince Charlie" a person of royal bloodline but considerable difficulty in claiming the throne. LPO
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TGF - Jan 30, 2005 1:52 pm (#2522 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, OotP is a secret organization, of course he didn't know about it.
He reads the paper (yes, I know he wasn't reading it thoroughly in B5, but he still reads it enough). I'm not from Britain, but just by reading the BBC World News, I know that 'Royal stories' are a popular topic in the British press.
If this is a royal family we're dealing with, then it's almost certainly (like you said) a royal family in exile. We've learned way too much about the British Ministry of Magic, its operation and setup, for us to have a monarchy sprung on us. If there's a prominent Magic Monarchy in Britain (and you can't say this is a fresh idea of Rowling's, because she's had this story in mind since book 2), *someone* should have said something about it by now, even in passing.
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mike miller - Jan 30, 2005 4:42 pm (#2523 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Vlad - It was JKR's comment that you posted that pointed be toward Godric Gryffindor. We learn about Salazar Slytherin in CoS and that he had a "falling out" with his long time friend Godric Gryffindor. However, we learn very little about Godric.
Since the themes of "choices" and "blood" prejudice are central to the books, it seems logical that these 2 ideals played out in the Slytherin/Gryffindor split.
Just my 2 knuts worth....
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Veritaserum - Jan 30, 2005 5:52 pm (#2524 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Okay, how about the HBP is a bad guy? He's half-blood but he hates it and is bitter about the whole thing...you know, like I'm sure Voldemort hated hearing about his Muggle mother and whatnot (I know Voldy's not the HBP, but it's just an analogy). That's something I have at least not thought of before.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jan 30, 2005 7:49 pm (#2525 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
It could be Godric, mike, but I don't think someone who is, presumably, long dead would be important enough to have a book named for him. Why would details of the Slytherin/Gryffindor split give too much away in book 2? Actually, I could answer this question myself, but doubt that Harry and Voldemort are just the last players in an ancient vendetta. If this were the case, JKR never would have considered putting it in the second book.
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Weeny Owl - Jan 30, 2005 10:34 pm (#2526 of 2923)
The Half-Blood Prince doesn't have to be a person.
Since the Malfoys were brought up, remember that they had a great deal of stuff under their parlor floor they didn't want anyone finding out about.
The Half-Blood Prince could be a book, although probably not another diary.
It could be a statue, a jewel, or any other object.
It's probably a person, but with JKR, there's no way of knowing.
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vball man - Jan 30, 2005 10:45 pm (#2527 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Yeah, I suppose. But JKR said, "The HBP is neither Harry nor Voldemort." It seems that she's thinking of "person" for category.
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TGF - Jan 30, 2005 10:51 pm (#2528 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Even if it were a book, the book would have to be about *someone*... A book can't just be called "The Half-Blood Prince" and be about how to take care of a Hippogriff.
Could be a statue though... a statue of a person. not a jewel, who's going to name a jewel 'Half-Blood Prince'? No matter which you shake it, there has to be an actual person involved here.
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LadyLozreena - Jan 31, 2005 3:29 am (#2529 of 2923)
Has it occurred to anyone that Hagrid is the Half Blood Prince? Or am I completely wrong!!??
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Weeny Owl - Jan 31, 2005 4:41 am (#2530 of 2923)
Yes, she's probably talking about a person, but again, who knows with her.
Well, TGF, if a diamond can be called the Pink Panther, why can't a jewel be called the Half-Blood Prince?
I do think it's really a person, but there's always a possibility that it could be something completely different.
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LadyLozreena - Jan 31, 2005 8:57 am (#2531 of 2923)
Where did this idea come from that the HBP might not be a person. Don't think thats possible myself! I think its definitely Hagrid and I'm sticking by it! He's a half-blood. There are so many reasons why he should be the prince!!! Someone please give me your thoughts on this!!
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Catherine - Jan 31, 2005 9:09 am (#2532 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Edited Jan 31, 2005 10:30 am
Lady Lozreena,
You might find it helpful to use the "Search" function to help you find what you are looking for. I know that there was much discussion of Hagrid as a possibility for the HBP when the title of the sixth book was revealed; I discussed it myself.
As for where the idea of the HBP not being a person originated, the Search function might help you there, too. I know the threads can be long and intimidating, so I hope you find this advice helpful.
EDIT: Here's a post I made this summer considering Hagrid as the possible HBP: Catherine, "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #262, 30 Jun 2004 6:18 am
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Rosie - Jan 31, 2005 11:02 am (#2533 of 2923)
I agree that Draco could be the HBP; remember that Hagrid said that ALL wizards and witches were half-blood or less (COS) - otherwise they would of all died out! Of course the 'pure bloods' try to keep their Muggle relations a sercet as much as possible. Maybe THIS has something to do with 'Draco's Detour'.
Seeing that no royalty has turned up in the Daily Prophet it is quite likely that HBP is used derisory (like Welsey is our King).
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GryffEndora - Jan 31, 2005 12:48 pm (#2534 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Just had a crazy thought about who the HBP might be. Sorry if this has already been said but I havent got through this entire thread. On a whim I looked up the birth date of Prince Harry of Wales. He was born September 15th, 1984. If he were a wizard, he would have turned 11 in 1995 and had to wait until 1996 (Harry 6th year) to recieve his Hogwarts letter and start study at Hogwarts. What if the HBP is a member of the royal family, not literally prince Harry but the JKR equivelant of prince Harry? I just found it an interesting coincidence (if we choose to believe in coincidence here).
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Veritaserum - Jan 31, 2005 3:18 pm (#2535 of 2923)
Go Jays!
No, I do not think JKR would make such a connection to the real modern day world. The only references to real things are either general or historic. I still don't jive with the whole, "oh yeah, it's been six years but I've forgotten to mention the thing about royalty" idea. I'm going with my recent theory about it being a bad guy (although the statue idea had some merit, in my opinion.)
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GryffEndora - Feb 1, 2005 9:55 am (#2536 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Let me clarify my previous statement. I am not saying I think JKR is going to write a real life person into Hogwarts. I was simply noting an interesting (to me) coincidence in age and title (Prince). If a member of the royal family were to attend Hogwarts I think it would be a fictional member in a fictional royal family who may exist in some sort of Harry Potter World parallel to our own. The same way that there in a US president in "The West Wing" who is not President Bush, but lives a parallel political life that comments on many issues that President Bush deals with.
Do I really think this is the HBP? Not really. I prefer the Hagrid, Flitwick and Gryffindor theories. I just thought it was an interesting coincidence to share. I apologize if I wasted your time.
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mike miller - Feb 1, 2005 5:49 pm (#2537 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Vlad - My thoughts on the Gryffindor/Slytherin split is that it was born out of the "blood prejudice" that seems to be a major theme for Voldemort. Yes, the irony is very deep with Voldemort's own parentage. I see at least 2 central themes; that of making individual choices and the fight against prejudice and privilege. Also, just because the name is part of the title does not mean that it is central to the story. I would argue that most elements that we've seen in the titles only play a minor role or are even used in only one scene. They are not central to storyline or the issues being addressed in each book.
As JKR has stated on her website, every child who shows any magical ability by age eleven is given the opportunity to attend Hogwarts. JKR is making a strong statement about her magical world. We have seen in our own world that prejudice is a very difficult demon to slay.
As I have reread CoS I have looked for other signs of a possible half story line and I cannot see one beyond Gryffindor/Slytherin. That's not say that it's not there, I've just been unable to find it!
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Veritaserum - Feb 1, 2005 6:04 pm (#2538 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Mike, I have to slightly disagree with your statement about book titles. In the first three books, the title named the object that the mystery was centered around, or what the main characters were looking for. GoF and OoP were both a stray from that. I agree that the titles of both those books were not that vital to the plot. It's hard to say which trend HBP will fall into.
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mike miller - Feb 1, 2005 7:36 pm (#2539 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Veritaserum - I'll conceed your point on PoA, although I think the importance of what we learned about Harry's parents, friends and the first war with Voldemort may be more important the Sirius alone.
However, I think in the first two books the title items (the Stone and the Chamber) are mere plot devices. The Stone is little more than the device that could return Voldemort to power, a foreshadowing of events to come. Yes it's something the trio are concerned about, but I see the first book more of an introduction to the characters and their exploration of the magical world. The Chamber itself plays even less a role being nothing more than the venue for Harry's second meeting with Voldemort. The story is about prejudice.
Just my 2 knuts worth, feel free to disagree.
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 1, 2005 7:47 pm (#2540 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I think JKR said that the HBP storyline will be what the bulk of the new book is about. She also said that it would have given too much away it book 2. I agree that the back story on the Gryffindor/Slytherin ties in nicely with several of the series' themes, but just can't see it as being that important. That said, Gryffindor is currently second on my list of possible HBPs, behind Draco and ahead of New Character.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 3, 2005 7:13 am (#2541 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 3, 2005 6:14 am
New Topic* What or Whose wand do you think Sirrius was using when he died? Surely his was taken and snapped in half when he entered azkaban. Maybe he had another one perhaps? Maybe Dumbledore bought him one..... Take it away everyone
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Ainsley Black - Feb 3, 2005 7:20 am (#2542 of 2923)
They've been discussing that on the Sirius Black thread.
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Denise P. - Feb 3, 2005 11:04 am (#2543 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
Thomas, that is already being discussed. Please don't ask the same question on several threads.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 3, 2005 9:28 pm (#2544 of 2923)
Vlad, I am curious, why do you consider Draco as a candidate for HBP? I thought the books made it clear he is a pureblood. I am leaning to a new character. LPO
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feline devil - Feb 4, 2005 8:40 am (#2545 of 2923)
I think that the most likely to be the HBP is Dean Thomas. First, he is a halfblood. Second, he doesn't, know who his father is.(He could probably be a royalty of some kind) And third JKR says on her site that Deans story was on the early draft of CoS. All of this points towards Dean being the HBP, but I can't help thinking that it seems to obvious in a way and she wouldn't have all that information about him on her site if he really was. These are just my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if it's been discussed before.
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Catherine - Feb 4, 2005 8:50 am (#2546 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
These are just my thoughts on the subject and I don't know if it's been discussed before. --Feline Devil
Thanks for posting, Feline Devil. In case you didn't know, the Forum has a "Search" function in which you can search the whole Forum, or just within a certain thread. This is much easier than trying to read all the old posts.
See you around the Forum!
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 4, 2005 8:59 am (#2547 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 4, 2005 8:10 am
Here is a list of purebloods who, supposedly couldn't be HBP.
Pureblood:
Black family (now died out with the death of Sirrius Black)
Crouch family (now died out with the deaths of Barty Crouch Sr. and Jr.)
Lestrange family (married into by Bellatrix Black)
Longbottom family (Neville)
Malfoy family (Lucius - Draco)
Weasley family
The above information is from the Lexicon it self.
Draco is Pureblood according to the Lexicon, however there are pretty good theories about the Chapter named Draco's Detour.
It can't be anyone in the Black family, except for the theories that Sirius's brother is still alive somehow and is going around as that famous singer that showed up in the Quibbler that looked like Sirius.
However,
JK could still be talking about someone deceased, for instance: Godric Griffindor. I cant remember if it has been said anywhere confirming his blood but considering he did not like Slytherin, it wouldnt be rash to say he might be half blood himself although he seems to be too powerful a wizard to be halfblooded. There are plenty of dead people who could be HBP.
New Characters: I have heard roumors about GG being the lion man but GG is dead. The sorting hat said so in one of his songs, "Now they're all dead and gone.." or something like that.
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MickeyCee3948 - Feb 4, 2005 11:48 am (#2548 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Thomas Phifer "I can't remember if it has been said anywhere confirming his blood but considering he did not like Slytherin".
Where does it say they didn't like each other. The sorting hat says they were the closest of friends but had a falling out or something like that sorry don't have access to my books right now. They could have been the best of friends and just disagreed about magical instruction to non-pure blood wizards and witches.
Mikie
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 4, 2005 12:44 pm (#2549 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 4, 2005 11:54 am
Well I guess what I really meant was: Considering GG did not like Slytherin's way of doing things (teaching only purebloods) maybe he wasn't pureblood himself. Ofcourse I think that HH and RR may have disliked Slytherin's way of doing things also, so....
Hi everyone! Talk to me in the Lexicon Chat Room or MSN (phifer7@hotmail.com) or AOL (tunit000) or Yahoo (thomas_phifer)
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Joelle - Feb 4, 2005 1:55 pm (#2550 of 2923)
OK, quick note. The kahn reference was amazing. You are awesome. I'm a Trekkie and I love the old movies.
Also The Half-Blood Prince would seem to me to be more of a person, however there is always that chance that it could be a jewel or statue or something. As for Godric and Slytherin, I would assume (assuming being an inaccurate word) but that their disagreement arose over the muggle born issue. However since JKR is big on showing that the bad guys aren't all evil (Snape) perhaps it was over something else. I think that this dynamic would have been the edited storyline from COS. It fits it rather nicely and wouldn't require a lot of rewritting when she took it out. I can also see how it would play a more important part now since the 2nd war has begun.
-Joelle
P.S. It was a lot of work to catch up after 1 month gone.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2551 to 2600)
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Delightful Task! - Feb 4, 2005 2:20 pm (#2551 of 2923)
Thomas Phifer "he might be half blood himself although he seems to be too powerful a wizard to be halfblooded."
I never thought one needed to be pure blood to be a powerful wizard... On the contrary, I thought JK Rowling insisted on the fact that all this theory of "mudblood, half blood, pure blood" could be compared to racist theories... she even made a comparison with the Nazis if I'm not mistaken. I don't think JK Rowling ever imagined Hermione would never be able to be a powerful witch only because her parents are muggles!
We perhaps shouldn't forget that when we try to find out who the HBP is! I think this title must have been given by followers of Voldemort to make fun of someone who is not pure blood... That's how I understand it; perhaps a bit like Jesus who was called "king of the Jews" (or something of that kind) by the Romans... although I'm not too sure about the comparison!!! Sorry if this sounds confuse orhas already been discussed... I'm a beginner here!
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 4, 2005 2:28 pm (#2552 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I Am Used Vlad, "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #1936, 2 Nov 2004 1:29 pm
LPO, here is a link to the post explaining why I think Draco is the HBP.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 4, 2005 7:22 pm (#2553 of 2923)
Thank you Vlad. If Lucius is half blood wouldn't that make Draco 1/4 blood? We have evidence of Narcissa's linage. Malfoys have an old mansion so if there is a Muggle connection it must be through Lucius mother. We won't know until July 16th! LPO
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Gerald Costales - Feb 5, 2005 10:30 am (#2554 of 2923)
Why assume the HBP is a Wizard? Couldn't Dobby be the HBP. Dobby being the HBP could explain Dobby's abnormal need to gain Freedom while all other House-Elves are content with serving Wizards and their families. ;-) GC
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TGF - Feb 5, 2005 11:23 am (#2555 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Thanks, Joelle, I try. ;-)
I think, before people start saying that Dudley or Buckbeak is the Half Blood Prince, we should review the definition of a Half-Blood...
A Half-Blood is a person born out of a combination of a pure wizard/witch and a less than pure (either muggle-born or muggle) partner. Anything that doesn't fit within this definition is not a Half-Blood. One can also assume that a wizard/witch that are already considered Half-Blood would also make a Half-Blood (though the real pure-blood fascists might argue that the child would be a mudblood).
At no point in the story has the term 'Half Blood' ever been used to describe anything that isn't a wizard (or witch). Hagrid, a half-giant, is called half-BREED, and though you could probably argue that he's a Half-Blood as well (since his mother wasn't a witch), calling him a Half-Blood would still be in reference to his human wizard blood, rather than his giant blood. Besides, we had our benchmark racist, Umbridge, choose to call Hagrid a Half-Breed rather than Blood, so I think that would be what he'd generally be known as.
Anyway... Pure Giants can't be Half-Bloods, Centaurs can't be Half-Bloods, Goblins can't be Half-Bloods, Hippogriffs can't be Half-Bloods and House Elves can't be Half-Bloods. Why? Because none of those races have 'non-magical' components to 'taint' their blood with. So, unless you're proposing that Dobby is a product of a bizarre human/house elf pairing (which would probably have made him taller than the average house elf... and which also would be even weirder to imagine than a giant/human pair), Dobby (or any other non-human character) can't be the HBP.
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Veritaserum - Feb 5, 2005 11:34 am (#2556 of 2923)
Go Jays!
I still don't know why everyone thinks the HBP has to be an actual half-blood, or an actual prince! I don't think he's either of those strictly speaking.
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TGF - Feb 5, 2005 11:56 am (#2557 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Actual Prince, sure, he doesn't have to be one. But I think the 'Half Blood' part is kind of obligatory. Explain how the Half-Blood Prince can not be a Half Blood? Why do you think that?
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Ann - Feb 5, 2005 7:19 pm (#2558 of 2923)
I think the exact opposite, Veritaserum. I think the Half-Blood Prince has to be both a half-blood and a prince. Why call him that if he isn't? I agree that prince is a little tricky, since we have no information about wizarding royalty and it seems unlikely that the British royal family will actually be involved, but that could be explained if the half-blood prince is a historical character.
And I've never liked the "prince of the half-bloods" idea; it assumes that Jo would use an awkward noun modifier instead of calling the book by the much more elegant title *Harry Potter and the Prince of the Half-Bloods.* (Think "the thieves prince" rather than "the prince of thieves.")
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So Sirius - Feb 5, 2005 10:48 pm (#2559 of 2923)
Whether or not he'll be a half-blood himself is the question i'm still wrestling with. I don't think everyone who thinks that they're full blooded, like Draco or Mr. Weasley are always and it's possible we're missing some of those wizards because of that and focusing on only certain ones. But again, I think this will be someone who stands out in some way and unites wizards during what will probably be a Wizard World War.
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TGF - Feb 5, 2005 10:58 pm (#2560 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Oh yeah, someone mentioned Draco, didn't they?
If there were a hole in Draco's lineage, he wouldn't be on the Black family tapestry. The offender would've been burned off, and none of that chain of descendents would never have made it on. Unless someone's proposing that Narcissa is a secret half-blood (WHY would she marry Lucius then?), Draco isn't a Half Blood.
Arthur and Molly are described as being pure, but blood-traitors (i.e. someone with a pure background but 'impure' beliefs in equality... like, you know... hmmm what's a good example... a German socialist in Nazi Germany, maybe? Yeah, that works).
And regardless, if someone who thinks they're pure is actually half, then they'd still be a Half-Blood Prince...
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Delightful Task! - Feb 6, 2005 4:40 am (#2561 of 2923)
Veritaserum, I checked the French translation for "Half Blood prince" on the French version of JKR's site... it's "Le Prince de Sang-Mêlé" . I suppose this is cannon, so it means that this Prince IS half-blood... Else it would be "le Prince DES sang-mêlés"... (I'm French, therefore I'm sure I'm not making a mistake here!)
I'm not so sure this HBP is a real Prince though... Either he comes from the past... or he must be a foreigner then I suppose! (Or else, Diana was a witch!!!)
Moreover, if there's a Prince, there should be a King somewhere... This might explain why there are no Witch - Kings any more but a Minister! there could have been a kind of revolution because the Prince was not "pure blood"... But perhaps my analysis is a bit too... French!!!?
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Gerald Costales - Feb 6, 2005 7:59 am (#2562 of 2923)
"I'm not so sure this HBP is a real Prince though... Either he comes from the past... or he must be a foreigner then I suppose! (Or else, Diana was a witch!!!) *
Moreover, if there's a Prince, there should be a King somewhere... This might explain why there are no Witch - Kings any more but a Minister! there could have been a kind of revolution because the Prince was not "pure blood"... But perhaps my analysis is a bit too... French!!!?" ** Delightful Task!
A "foreigner"? * If you are British, would being Welsh or Scottish make you a foreigner. Now, I've supported Godric Gryffindor as a possible HBP candidate. Godric is a past character whose background and connection to the present could be established in a flashback. Similar to the events that were revealed in a flashback concerning the murders of Tom Riddle's father and grandparents. I've also read the argument that Godric could have had a Half-Blood son. That would make Godric Jr. a Half-Blood if Godric Sr. was a Pure Blood Wizard and Mrs. Gryffindor was a pure human. The Prince part would be tricky since it would depend how royal titles are given.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ** " . . . there should be a King somewhere . . ."
Not necessarily. ** Monaco is a Principality not a Kingdom. Thus, the rulers of Monaco are titled Prince or Princess. Also the consort of a Queen is titled Prince. Queen Victoria's husband was "Prince" Albert not "King" Albert. As is Queen Elizabeth’s husband currently titled “Prince” Philip.
“Anyway... Pure Giants can't be Half-Bloods, Centaurs can't be Half-Bloods, Goblins can't be Half-Bloods, Hippogriffs can't be Half-Bloods and House Elves can't be Half-Bloods. Why? Because none of those races have 'non-magical' components to 'taint' their blood with. So, unless you're proposing that Dobby is a product of a bizarre human/house elf pairing (which would probably have made him taller than the average house elf... and which also would be even weirder to imagine than a giant/human pair), Dobby (or any other non-human character) can't be the HBP.” TGF
When I suggested Dobby, I never considered a House-Elf + human or whatever = Half-Blood. Well, I’ve asked this on another thread and it needs to be brought up again.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . If there are House-Elves, couldn’t there be Field-Elves?
House-Elves are almost Slaves. In past times there were House slaves and Field slaves. Wouldn’t a House-Elf + Field-Elf = a Half-Blood mix. Especially if a House-Elf was bred to a certain Breed standard and a Field-Elf was bred to meet another Breed standard. (That is assuming House-Elves breed. Dobby is male and Winky is female.)
“ . . . Dobby is a product of a bizarre human/house elf pairing (which would probably have made him taller than the average house elf…”
Again, I never intended this type of pairing. But, Fleur is a quarter Vela. And Hagrid is Half-Giant or in my opinion a Half-Blood. So, interbreeding of magical and non-magical beings is possible. But, isn’t Peter Pettigrew*** extremely short for a Wizard? And Peter has an abnormal almost House-Elf-like need to serve Wizards (James, Sirius, Remus, and Voldermort). (I think Flitwick is possibly a dwarf or midget Wizard and not a mix. But, I have my doubts about short little Wormtail.) ;-) GC
PS *** When I used spellcheck “Pedigree” was one of the choices to replace Pettigrew. "Curious indeed how these things happen.” ;-) GC
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Delightful Task! - Feb 6, 2005 8:15 am (#2563 of 2923)
Gerald Costales, I agree with you about Godric Gryffindor or his son being the Half-Blood Prince... I thought about the flashback too...
Moreover, this story about the heir of Slytherin could lead us to look for an heir to Gryffindor... that would be a good link between CoS and HBP...
But I suppose someone has already had the idea somewhere on this thread or another!
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mike miller - Feb 6, 2005 10:05 am (#2564 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I have a feeling that there may be several flashbacks in HBP.
JKR has said we will learn more about Tom Riddle's birth and his mother. I am particularly curious as to how young Tom discovered his connection to Salazar Slytherin.
There are many unanswered questions related to the night Harry's parents were murdered, who may have been there and what happened to Voldemort right after he was struck by his own rebounded AK curse.
The possible connection between Harry and Voldemort being related to the philosophical split between Godric and Salazar.
JKR has established the mental conncetion between Harry and Voldemort so strongly that it would be very easy to provide us Voldemort/Tom's perspective on events of the past. We have seen "tools" (pensieve) used to shows us events from the past. It would not surprise me if JKR uses every tool at her disposal to unravel the mystery.
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Veritaserum - Feb 6, 2005 10:17 am (#2565 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Okay, Ann, Delightful Task, I see your points concerning the HBP being an actual half-blood. But how important do you think the HBP will be? Obviously the most important half-bloods are Harry and Voldemort, and neither of them are the HBP. So do you think she would introduce some other major character this late in the game? In other words, what sort of role does the HBP have?
Just had another thought: on the Dumbledore thread we have been talking about Aberforth and Albus. Somebody mentioned how Grawp and Hagrid are half-brothers...what if Aberforth is the half-blooded half-brother (Mr. Dumbledore remarried to a Muggbleborn?) of Albus and the Half-Blood Prince?
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gforce2588 - Feb 6, 2005 11:48 am (#2566 of 2923)
I have to agree with mike miller...
Rowling's use of flashbacks to unravel important aspects of her books is one of her signature moves--the Pensieve was given an entire chapter to itself-- and I have the distinct feeling that we won't be able to unravel exactly who the half-blood prince is without additional information. I guess all we can do is speculate for now, but I don't think it will be possible to seize upon any one piece of information in the novels so far until the circumstances of book 6 can be included as a given.
For the record, though, I think Harry is definitely not the half-blood prince...
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Delightful Task! - Feb 6, 2005 1:39 pm (#2567 of 2923)
Veritaserum, I really don't know how important he will be! This could be some story from the past that helps Harry understand what he has to do or where the right path is... Or he could be someone helping Harry in the present...
I don't think he could be an enemy though... certainly because I stick to my idea that this "title" (ie "Prince") must be some kind of jibe ( am I using that word correctly?!).
I think there's something wrong in the expression "half-blood Prince". I imagine aristocrats are very proud of their "pure blood"!
Another thing I'm wondering about is Harry's reaction and behaviour in HBP... With what happened in OoP, I can't imagine he's going to be nice and quiet... He might turn really bad actually and make terrible mistakes...
He will definitely need all his friends' help to get through all this!
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 6, 2005 10:00 pm (#2568 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Gforce2588, it is a fact out of JK's mouth that Harry nor Voldemort will be HBP. So you can be 100% sure that they will not be HBP. I like the idea of GG's son being the HBP, that one's new to me. I also agree with Mike Miller and more flashbax are welcome in my view. I like reading JK's writing in "flashbacks" mode, very intriguing.
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Kerrie-Louise - Feb 7, 2005 1:19 am (#2569 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP isn't a person as such. Like Sir Cadugan (sorry about spelling but I don't have my books with me)or the Chamber of secrets maybe the HBP is a picture that leads to a discovery. Not really a credible theory but I thought I would throw that in and see what people think!
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Rosie - Feb 7, 2005 4:08 am (#2570 of 2923)
I am re reading OotP at the moment, and came across this passage "... the corpulent, red-nosed wizard who hung on the wall behind the Headmaster's desk... settled himself on the throne-like chair on which he had been painted and smiled benignly on Harry." Source: The Lost Prophecy
I wonder, this is a portrait of Gryffindor in his later days as the First Headmaster, and is the "throne-like chair" a reference to him being the Half-Blood Prince? Maybe this is the way that Harry gets to talk to Gryffindor, by way of his portrait in the Headmaster's room. Maybe there is a portrait of him elsewhere (Gryffindor common room prehaps?).
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 7, 2005 9:20 am (#2571 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Ooooh, very neat Rosie, what page is that on? Does it say that it actually is a pic of GG?
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Steve Newton - Feb 7, 2005 9:25 am (#2572 of 2923)
Librarian
I don't know whether or not this is Gryffindor but he piops up quite often in OOTP. Corpulent would certainly be a different description from the picture in my head.
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Catherine - Feb 7, 2005 10:13 am (#2573 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Rosie,
We know that the "corpulent wizard" is named "Fortescue." There is also another Fortescue in the books: the wizard who owns the ice cream shop who feeds Harry sundaes and tells him stories.
I think it very unlikely that Fortescue is Godric Gryffindor.
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Steve Newton - Feb 7, 2005 10:16 am (#2574 of 2923)
Librarian
Very good, Catherine.
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Katelyn Black - Feb 7, 2005 2:44 pm (#2575 of 2923)
I still have this feeling that Snape is the Half Blood Prince.(like half blood prince of darkness) The way J.K.discribes him in all the books and the mind control thing he does with Harry. James and his friends like to dangle Snape upsidedown like he was some kind of bat.
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Veritaserum - Feb 7, 2005 3:56 pm (#2576 of 2923)
Go Jays!
That would be supremely cool, Katelyn.
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MoonRider - Feb 7, 2005 6:40 pm (#2577 of 2923)
I think that the HBP is revealed to us in the Chapter entitled: "Felix Felicis". I think that the title of this chapter is not the name of the character, itself----but, rather, a clever name for the chapter-----like "Dudley Demented". I think the name of the character is "Mr. Prentice"; Mrs. Figg says: "....what's that at the end of the street? Oh, it's just Mr. Prentice...." (P.21/OotP [American hard-back]); "Prentice might be short for Apprentice----as in, someone who is in training to become king; Mrs. Figg doesn't call him "Prince Prentice" cuz she doesn't know he's a Prince.
Mrs. Figg says "what's that"----she doesn't say "who's that"----leading me t'think it's a thing rather than a person. This brings me to what thing I think it is.....
an Animagus cat! (Sorry----I know some people are probably tired of hearin' about Animagi.)
I'm thinkin' that "Felix" was used simply because of "Felix the Cat"; and, I'm thinkin' "Felicis" means multiple felines-----as I already stated on another thread.
Also, as I've already posted elsewhere, I think the HBP is "in charge of", so-to-speak, the cats-----like, Crookshanks, Mrs. Norris, Mrs. Figg's cats, etc. I think that the chapter "Felix Felicis" is where the excerpt that JKR gave us-----about the lion-like guy with yellow eyes (Crookshanks and Mrs. Norris, both have yellow eyes)-----and, he (the guy in the excerpt) has "bandy legs" (Crookshanks has/means crooked legs)-----came from.
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TGF - Feb 7, 2005 7:07 pm (#2578 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
That's certainly a unique idea, Moonrider, and I wholeheartedly commend you for thinking of something so creative... I also always approve of ideas which involve cats, as cats are clearly the best.
But... well, it's just that we've already had a 'Animagus who's hiding out from persecution' routine with Wormtail, and with Wormtail you had Scabbers around for nearly three whole books before he was revealed. It would seem kind of odd to not only use the Animagus device a second time, but to also use it in reference to a cat that's only been mentioned in one stray line in OotP. If HBP is one of Figgy's cats, it would've been easy to have presented him as her favourite cat, thus giving him more screentime then that one line. Thus, I really don't think Mr. Prentice (whose name also connotates being a helper... and not all apprentices are training to be kings... you can be a blacksmith apprentice, or pirate apprentice, or whatnot) fits the bill.
Cool idea nonetheless though.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 7, 2005 10:31 pm (#2579 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 7, 2005 9:32 pm
Yes, good ideas flowing in this room. Its seems as though just bringing up Mrs. Figs cats as HBP and being animagus would be like TGF said a little redundant. Any-who I think HBP being in the title constitutes a greater importance than to be about someone who Mrs. Figgs could just shrug off "Oh, its just Mr. Prentice". I sometimes feel like everytime someone has had a good idea everyone seems to point out the flaws. I just hope the people whos ideas are contructivly critizied see it as just that.
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pottermom34 - Feb 7, 2005 11:23 pm (#2580 of 2923)
Here's thoery, (this may be a long shot) I have seen where some think Dumbledore is a descendant of Gryffindore, what if Dumbledore is the HBP. (correct me if wrong about his bloodline) what if Gryffindore married a muggle, or had muggle relatives. could this be a possibility? Maybe this is why DD is the only person LV is afraid of. (although now maybe he's getting a little afraid of Harry too).
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The giant squid - Feb 8, 2005 12:52 am (#2581 of 2923)
Correct me if wrong about his bloodline
Well, not really a correction, but I want to point out that we have no canon information about Dumbledore's background. All we know for certain is that he's roughly 150 years old (from a chat, I believe) and that his OWL tester said he "did things with a wand I'd never seen before" (OotP). There's a strong movement behind the "DD is descended from Godric Gryffindor" theory, though, just because it sounds cool.
--Mike
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MoonRider - Feb 8, 2005 10:17 am (#2582 of 2923)
TGF - "but to also use it in reference to a cat that's only been mentioned in one stray line in OotP."
Well, I'm thinkin' there have been other "stray lines".....
What about when Mrs. Figg broke her leg (SS) and Harry "reminded himself it would be a whole year before he had to look at Tibbles, Snowy, Mr. Paws, and Tufy again."
Then----FOUR books later----Mrs. Figg: "....luckily I'd stationed Mr. Tibbles under a car just in case...." Now, is it safe t'assume that these two "Tibbles" are one in the same----I'm thinkin', yeah!
"If HBP is one of Figgy's cats..."
Well, I didn't mean to insinuate that it was one of Mrs. Figg's cats----but, it could be!
"also connotates being a helper... and not all apprentices are training to be kings... you can be a blacksmith apprentice, or pirate apprentice, or whatnot...."
You're absolutely right! I should've said something like: "one of the meanings of 'apprentice' is....".
Thomas - "I just hope the people whos ideas are contructivly critizied see it as just that."
Oh yeah----I do! That's why I was so ecstatic when I found this place----I could bounce my crazy ideas off of people-----and they could point-out where there's holes-----like my eye color theory!
(In case you haven't read it----toooooo silly! LOL)
Oh----and....
TGF?
".....cats are clearly the best."-----TOTALLY!!
....CATS RULE!!!
Thanks you guys!
MoonRider
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MickeyCee3948 - Feb 8, 2005 1:12 pm (#2583 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Thomas Phifer-"I just hope the people whos ideas are contructivly critizied see it as just that."
I think that is the great thing about the lexicon. You put ideas out here, some get shot down and some don't. It makes for a better discussion if you have differing opinions rather than everyone agreeing with each other.
Mikie
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Feb 8, 2005 7:00 pm (#2584 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
My opinion? Like anyone asked for it? LOL Dumbledore is the HBP. It may have nothing to do with his bloodline, or with anything else but his compassion and sense of justice to all living creatures. Dumbledore is a major player, in fact the puppet master of the events in Harry's life. To me that is just too big a role to be passed off by JKR with a few paragraphs of Dumbledore's history or a line or two in a conversation to reveal his past and his role in Harry's life. So what if he was the one who heard the prophesy? He could have turned a deaf ear, may was His choice, after all, the series is about choices. Also, all the alchemy references point to Albus the white progressing towards his own PS. As well as all the other main characters in the books. (Please excuse the A word) All the other speculation about Dumbledore as teacher, mentor, cautious and questioning, (Tom Riddle) I think are valid. There is much about Dumbledore left to be explained.
Therefore, it is my firm conviction that Albus is the half-blood prince. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it until proved wrong by JKR!
If wrong, the forum is invited to join me at St Mungos for a butterbeer and watch to see how many stoat sandwiches and rock cakes I can down... :-)
Edit: I realize this post would have fit under many different threads, but this was the first one I got to when struck by an idea. And yes Hollywand, I am still trying to figure out the tempo to that waltze.
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Eliza - Feb 8, 2005 9:52 pm (#2585 of 2923)
As for DD being the HBP, I don't know. Anything is possible. I do however think it is very likely that DD and/ or the HBP is a descendant of GG. Keep in mind also that a child of a witch and wizard, one of which is muggleborn (Lily), is also considered a half-blood (Harry). I still think that Aunt Marge's Colonel Fubster is going to come into play. Possible half-blood as I am convinced he is an untrained wizard. (See HP6: the Half Blood Prince #2166 for further info on this.)
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Hollywand - Feb 8, 2005 11:41 pm (#2586 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Twinks, I was laughing so merrily reading your post! ;-)
Your suggestion regarding Dumbledore is really intriguing! The reference to "blood" may be a double entendre as you point out, not literal but metaphorical.
Dumbledore is also an expert on the twelve uses of dragon's blood. Half of twelve is six, and we are at Book Six, aren't we? Maybe we will learn half of Dumbledore's knowledge and powers in book six, and the finale in book seven. Order of the Phoenix closed with a pretty awesome display of mysterious magical spells cast between Dumbledore and Voldemort. Hmmmmmm.
High tea at St. Mungo's, and you're definitely invited! ;-)
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 10, 2005 4:04 am (#2587 of 2923)
Something my son said the other day "We live in a Monarchy." I had a sudden flash of inspiration; if the MoM and the British Government work together on occasion, and the most senior wizard is the Minister of Magic NOT the Prime Minister of Wizards, and as we have a Queen (There is only ever one Monarch, being a King or Queen - their partner being a Queen Consort or Prince Consort) There can't be a King or Queen ruling over the Wizarding World in Britain, as they are already ruled over by the Monarch. We have a Prince of Wales, A Duke of York, An Earl of Essex, so there has to be a Viscount of Wizards or some such Royal Representative of the WW, any child of whom would also be titled.
Please: Don't get into a discussion about whether or not there should be a Royal Family in Britain, just accept it as a fact and the rest of my post will make complete sense.
Think about it!
Aurora xx
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So Sirius - Feb 10, 2005 12:15 pm (#2588 of 2923)
Yes, we're even going to have a new Princess Consort. I understand your thinking, but I don't see her going out of her way to write a fantasy and base it on such realism. I think this will be a constructed character, as much as the others.
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Ann - Feb 11, 2005 6:36 am (#2589 of 2923)
I find it hard to imagine, actually, that the half-blood prince could be a major known character, like Dumbledore (or Snape, or Hagrid or even Dean). If it were, once we knew who it was, the title would sound to us like "Harry Potter and Dumbledore," which, given his importance in the earlier books would be a bit weird. And, of course, JKR knows who it is already, so it would sound that way to her already.
And I agree that the royalty mentioned is unlikely to be connected to the present day royal family. If the prince is a present-day person, he is presumably a prince by ancestry only, not someone who has an active role in ruling wizarding Britain. He would have been mentioned long before this if he were.
As I've said before, I think it most likely a historical character (Godric Gryffindor or one of his descendants). Another possibility would be the DADA teacher. If he were a present-day character taken out of CoS someone would have had to be stuck in to fill his place, and Lockhart has always seemed to me quite a lot like a last minute fill-in. He's anomalous because he's based on an actual person, and although he does have some effect on the plot at the end, he's mostly comic relief and it would be fairly easy to take him out of the book.
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Steve Newton - Feb 11, 2005 7:03 am (#2590 of 2923)
Librarian
I don't think that there is really any way that we can figure out who the HBP is. Not enough information. I can't even rule out Sir Cadogan.
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Liz Mann - Feb 11, 2005 11:55 am (#2591 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Just to break away from the current discussion for a moment - The Leaky Cauldron is saying that the page length for the British edition of HBP is 608 pages (GoF was 636). After finding page number 608 in my hardback edition of GoF, and seeing just how thick HBP is going to be, I'm really quite happy.
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TGF - Feb 11, 2005 1:44 pm (#2592 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
But when I open my hardback UK OotP, I see 766 pages in all. 766 is a number that makes the number 608 seem so frail and weak. Hopefully it's just a big typo and it's meant to be 6080.
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So Sirius - Feb 11, 2005 7:37 pm (#2593 of 2923)
This was posted on the Veritaserum website.
"There's been quite a bit of debate ever since last June over whether the Half-Blood Prince is a prince that is a half-blood or a prince of the half-bloods. French reader Céline has let us know that the French title of the sixth book has been announced as Le Prince au sang mêlé, which directly translates into English as "the prince who is a half-blood."
It's possible that the translator is merely speculating as to the meaning of 'Half-Blood Prince,' but in past cases where translators have been unsure about something, they've usually been able to touch base with one of JKR's literary agents, who can provide them with the information they need.
Update: Ilaria has informed us that the Italian title of the book is Harry Potter e il Principe Mezzosangue, which also literally translates to "the prince who is a half-blood."
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Delightful Task! - Feb 12, 2005 2:57 pm (#2594 of 2923)
I was thinking about that character who was described when the door was opened...
(He) looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.
Of course this could be the heir of Gryffindor... or the Half Blood Prince... But it made me think of Crookshank... Now, I've read what you all think... we've seen many unregistered animagi already, so it would be surprising if there happened to be another one... _(Anyway, If Crookshank eventually turned out to be an animagus, I would love it, Jo!!!)
What came to my mind just yesterday was... and if Crookshank was really a cat-kneazle, but there was a spell to turn particularly intelligent animals into human beings?!
I don't know how it could come in useful for the plot though... But that would be cool!
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haymoni - Feb 12, 2005 5:33 pm (#2595 of 2923)
TLC reported that the book is going to be 608 pages long and that the US version was going to be 672 pages long.
Why so much longer? Bigger print? Is the spacing different?
I only have US editions of the books so I don't know if there has been this great a difference in the other books.
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 12, 2005 9:32 pm (#2596 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Oh yeah, someone mentioned Draco, didn't they?
If there were a hole in Draco's lineage, he wouldn't be on the Black family tapestry. The offender would've been burned off, and none of that chain of descendents would never have made it on. Unless someone's proposing that Narcissa is a secret half-blood (WHY would she marry Lucius then?), Draco isn't a Half Blood. TGF
I don't understand why you think Narcissa would have to be the secret half-blood. The tapestry shows the Black family's lineage, so her blood status is well documented. Lucius, on the other hand, was added to the tapestry when he married her. His pure-bloodedness is assumed by both the Blacks and us. We know nothing of his actual ancestry. If Draco is the HBP, as I think he is, it will come from the Malfoy side of the family.
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haymoni - Feb 12, 2005 9:44 pm (#2597 of 2923)
So would "Draco's Detour" be connected with his being the HBP???
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Ainsley Black - Feb 13, 2005 5:25 am (#2598 of 2923)
haymoni - as far as i'm aware the US versions have chapter artwork do they not? Well we get no such thing in the UK editions
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 13, 2005 11:21 am (#2599 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
If Draco is the HBP, I don't think we will find out as early as chapter 6, but Draco's Detour could offer clues or set up the story line that leads to us finding out.
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 13, 2005 3:14 pm (#2600 of 2923)
We found out fairly early on what the Order of the Phoenix was!
Aurora xx
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Thomas Phifer "he might be half blood himself although he seems to be too powerful a wizard to be halfblooded."
I never thought one needed to be pure blood to be a powerful wizard... On the contrary, I thought JK Rowling insisted on the fact that all this theory of "mudblood, half blood, pure blood" could be compared to racist theories... she even made a comparison with the Nazis if I'm not mistaken. I don't think JK Rowling ever imagined Hermione would never be able to be a powerful witch only because her parents are muggles!
We perhaps shouldn't forget that when we try to find out who the HBP is! I think this title must have been given by followers of Voldemort to make fun of someone who is not pure blood... That's how I understand it; perhaps a bit like Jesus who was called "king of the Jews" (or something of that kind) by the Romans... although I'm not too sure about the comparison!!! Sorry if this sounds confuse orhas already been discussed... I'm a beginner here!
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 4, 2005 2:28 pm (#2552 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I Am Used Vlad, "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #1936, 2 Nov 2004 1:29 pm
LPO, here is a link to the post explaining why I think Draco is the HBP.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 4, 2005 7:22 pm (#2553 of 2923)
Thank you Vlad. If Lucius is half blood wouldn't that make Draco 1/4 blood? We have evidence of Narcissa's linage. Malfoys have an old mansion so if there is a Muggle connection it must be through Lucius mother. We won't know until July 16th! LPO
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Gerald Costales - Feb 5, 2005 10:30 am (#2554 of 2923)
Why assume the HBP is a Wizard? Couldn't Dobby be the HBP. Dobby being the HBP could explain Dobby's abnormal need to gain Freedom while all other House-Elves are content with serving Wizards and their families. ;-) GC
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TGF - Feb 5, 2005 11:23 am (#2555 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Thanks, Joelle, I try. ;-)
I think, before people start saying that Dudley or Buckbeak is the Half Blood Prince, we should review the definition of a Half-Blood...
A Half-Blood is a person born out of a combination of a pure wizard/witch and a less than pure (either muggle-born or muggle) partner. Anything that doesn't fit within this definition is not a Half-Blood. One can also assume that a wizard/witch that are already considered Half-Blood would also make a Half-Blood (though the real pure-blood fascists might argue that the child would be a mudblood).
At no point in the story has the term 'Half Blood' ever been used to describe anything that isn't a wizard (or witch). Hagrid, a half-giant, is called half-BREED, and though you could probably argue that he's a Half-Blood as well (since his mother wasn't a witch), calling him a Half-Blood would still be in reference to his human wizard blood, rather than his giant blood. Besides, we had our benchmark racist, Umbridge, choose to call Hagrid a Half-Breed rather than Blood, so I think that would be what he'd generally be known as.
Anyway... Pure Giants can't be Half-Bloods, Centaurs can't be Half-Bloods, Goblins can't be Half-Bloods, Hippogriffs can't be Half-Bloods and House Elves can't be Half-Bloods. Why? Because none of those races have 'non-magical' components to 'taint' their blood with. So, unless you're proposing that Dobby is a product of a bizarre human/house elf pairing (which would probably have made him taller than the average house elf... and which also would be even weirder to imagine than a giant/human pair), Dobby (or any other non-human character) can't be the HBP.
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Veritaserum - Feb 5, 2005 11:34 am (#2556 of 2923)
Go Jays!
I still don't know why everyone thinks the HBP has to be an actual half-blood, or an actual prince! I don't think he's either of those strictly speaking.
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TGF - Feb 5, 2005 11:56 am (#2557 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Actual Prince, sure, he doesn't have to be one. But I think the 'Half Blood' part is kind of obligatory. Explain how the Half-Blood Prince can not be a Half Blood? Why do you think that?
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Ann - Feb 5, 2005 7:19 pm (#2558 of 2923)
I think the exact opposite, Veritaserum. I think the Half-Blood Prince has to be both a half-blood and a prince. Why call him that if he isn't? I agree that prince is a little tricky, since we have no information about wizarding royalty and it seems unlikely that the British royal family will actually be involved, but that could be explained if the half-blood prince is a historical character.
And I've never liked the "prince of the half-bloods" idea; it assumes that Jo would use an awkward noun modifier instead of calling the book by the much more elegant title *Harry Potter and the Prince of the Half-Bloods.* (Think "the thieves prince" rather than "the prince of thieves.")
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So Sirius - Feb 5, 2005 10:48 pm (#2559 of 2923)
Whether or not he'll be a half-blood himself is the question i'm still wrestling with. I don't think everyone who thinks that they're full blooded, like Draco or Mr. Weasley are always and it's possible we're missing some of those wizards because of that and focusing on only certain ones. But again, I think this will be someone who stands out in some way and unites wizards during what will probably be a Wizard World War.
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TGF - Feb 5, 2005 10:58 pm (#2560 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Oh yeah, someone mentioned Draco, didn't they?
If there were a hole in Draco's lineage, he wouldn't be on the Black family tapestry. The offender would've been burned off, and none of that chain of descendents would never have made it on. Unless someone's proposing that Narcissa is a secret half-blood (WHY would she marry Lucius then?), Draco isn't a Half Blood.
Arthur and Molly are described as being pure, but blood-traitors (i.e. someone with a pure background but 'impure' beliefs in equality... like, you know... hmmm what's a good example... a German socialist in Nazi Germany, maybe? Yeah, that works).
And regardless, if someone who thinks they're pure is actually half, then they'd still be a Half-Blood Prince...
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Delightful Task! - Feb 6, 2005 4:40 am (#2561 of 2923)
Veritaserum, I checked the French translation for "Half Blood prince" on the French version of JKR's site... it's "Le Prince de Sang-Mêlé" . I suppose this is cannon, so it means that this Prince IS half-blood... Else it would be "le Prince DES sang-mêlés"... (I'm French, therefore I'm sure I'm not making a mistake here!)
I'm not so sure this HBP is a real Prince though... Either he comes from the past... or he must be a foreigner then I suppose! (Or else, Diana was a witch!!!)
Moreover, if there's a Prince, there should be a King somewhere... This might explain why there are no Witch - Kings any more but a Minister! there could have been a kind of revolution because the Prince was not "pure blood"... But perhaps my analysis is a bit too... French!!!?
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Gerald Costales - Feb 6, 2005 7:59 am (#2562 of 2923)
"I'm not so sure this HBP is a real Prince though... Either he comes from the past... or he must be a foreigner then I suppose! (Or else, Diana was a witch!!!) *
Moreover, if there's a Prince, there should be a King somewhere... This might explain why there are no Witch - Kings any more but a Minister! there could have been a kind of revolution because the Prince was not "pure blood"... But perhaps my analysis is a bit too... French!!!?" ** Delightful Task!
A "foreigner"? * If you are British, would being Welsh or Scottish make you a foreigner. Now, I've supported Godric Gryffindor as a possible HBP candidate. Godric is a past character whose background and connection to the present could be established in a flashback. Similar to the events that were revealed in a flashback concerning the murders of Tom Riddle's father and grandparents. I've also read the argument that Godric could have had a Half-Blood son. That would make Godric Jr. a Half-Blood if Godric Sr. was a Pure Blood Wizard and Mrs. Gryffindor was a pure human. The Prince part would be tricky since it would depend how royal titles are given.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ** " . . . there should be a King somewhere . . ."
Not necessarily. ** Monaco is a Principality not a Kingdom. Thus, the rulers of Monaco are titled Prince or Princess. Also the consort of a Queen is titled Prince. Queen Victoria's husband was "Prince" Albert not "King" Albert. As is Queen Elizabeth’s husband currently titled “Prince” Philip.
“Anyway... Pure Giants can't be Half-Bloods, Centaurs can't be Half-Bloods, Goblins can't be Half-Bloods, Hippogriffs can't be Half-Bloods and House Elves can't be Half-Bloods. Why? Because none of those races have 'non-magical' components to 'taint' their blood with. So, unless you're proposing that Dobby is a product of a bizarre human/house elf pairing (which would probably have made him taller than the average house elf... and which also would be even weirder to imagine than a giant/human pair), Dobby (or any other non-human character) can't be the HBP.” TGF
When I suggested Dobby, I never considered a House-Elf + human or whatever = Half-Blood. Well, I’ve asked this on another thread and it needs to be brought up again.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . If there are House-Elves, couldn’t there be Field-Elves?
House-Elves are almost Slaves. In past times there were House slaves and Field slaves. Wouldn’t a House-Elf + Field-Elf = a Half-Blood mix. Especially if a House-Elf was bred to a certain Breed standard and a Field-Elf was bred to meet another Breed standard. (That is assuming House-Elves breed. Dobby is male and Winky is female.)
“ . . . Dobby is a product of a bizarre human/house elf pairing (which would probably have made him taller than the average house elf…”
Again, I never intended this type of pairing. But, Fleur is a quarter Vela. And Hagrid is Half-Giant or in my opinion a Half-Blood. So, interbreeding of magical and non-magical beings is possible. But, isn’t Peter Pettigrew*** extremely short for a Wizard? And Peter has an abnormal almost House-Elf-like need to serve Wizards (James, Sirius, Remus, and Voldermort). (I think Flitwick is possibly a dwarf or midget Wizard and not a mix. But, I have my doubts about short little Wormtail.) ;-) GC
PS *** When I used spellcheck “Pedigree” was one of the choices to replace Pettigrew. "Curious indeed how these things happen.” ;-) GC
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Delightful Task! - Feb 6, 2005 8:15 am (#2563 of 2923)
Gerald Costales, I agree with you about Godric Gryffindor or his son being the Half-Blood Prince... I thought about the flashback too...
Moreover, this story about the heir of Slytherin could lead us to look for an heir to Gryffindor... that would be a good link between CoS and HBP...
But I suppose someone has already had the idea somewhere on this thread or another!
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mike miller - Feb 6, 2005 10:05 am (#2564 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I have a feeling that there may be several flashbacks in HBP.
JKR has said we will learn more about Tom Riddle's birth and his mother. I am particularly curious as to how young Tom discovered his connection to Salazar Slytherin.
There are many unanswered questions related to the night Harry's parents were murdered, who may have been there and what happened to Voldemort right after he was struck by his own rebounded AK curse.
The possible connection between Harry and Voldemort being related to the philosophical split between Godric and Salazar.
JKR has established the mental conncetion between Harry and Voldemort so strongly that it would be very easy to provide us Voldemort/Tom's perspective on events of the past. We have seen "tools" (pensieve) used to shows us events from the past. It would not surprise me if JKR uses every tool at her disposal to unravel the mystery.
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Veritaserum - Feb 6, 2005 10:17 am (#2565 of 2923)
Go Jays!
Okay, Ann, Delightful Task, I see your points concerning the HBP being an actual half-blood. But how important do you think the HBP will be? Obviously the most important half-bloods are Harry and Voldemort, and neither of them are the HBP. So do you think she would introduce some other major character this late in the game? In other words, what sort of role does the HBP have?
Just had another thought: on the Dumbledore thread we have been talking about Aberforth and Albus. Somebody mentioned how Grawp and Hagrid are half-brothers...what if Aberforth is the half-blooded half-brother (Mr. Dumbledore remarried to a Muggbleborn?) of Albus and the Half-Blood Prince?
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gforce2588 - Feb 6, 2005 11:48 am (#2566 of 2923)
I have to agree with mike miller...
Rowling's use of flashbacks to unravel important aspects of her books is one of her signature moves--the Pensieve was given an entire chapter to itself-- and I have the distinct feeling that we won't be able to unravel exactly who the half-blood prince is without additional information. I guess all we can do is speculate for now, but I don't think it will be possible to seize upon any one piece of information in the novels so far until the circumstances of book 6 can be included as a given.
For the record, though, I think Harry is definitely not the half-blood prince...
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Delightful Task! - Feb 6, 2005 1:39 pm (#2567 of 2923)
Veritaserum, I really don't know how important he will be! This could be some story from the past that helps Harry understand what he has to do or where the right path is... Or he could be someone helping Harry in the present...
I don't think he could be an enemy though... certainly because I stick to my idea that this "title" (ie "Prince") must be some kind of jibe ( am I using that word correctly?!).
I think there's something wrong in the expression "half-blood Prince". I imagine aristocrats are very proud of their "pure blood"!
Another thing I'm wondering about is Harry's reaction and behaviour in HBP... With what happened in OoP, I can't imagine he's going to be nice and quiet... He might turn really bad actually and make terrible mistakes...
He will definitely need all his friends' help to get through all this!
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 6, 2005 10:00 pm (#2568 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Gforce2588, it is a fact out of JK's mouth that Harry nor Voldemort will be HBP. So you can be 100% sure that they will not be HBP. I like the idea of GG's son being the HBP, that one's new to me. I also agree with Mike Miller and more flashbax are welcome in my view. I like reading JK's writing in "flashbacks" mode, very intriguing.
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Kerrie-Louise - Feb 7, 2005 1:19 am (#2569 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP isn't a person as such. Like Sir Cadugan (sorry about spelling but I don't have my books with me)or the Chamber of secrets maybe the HBP is a picture that leads to a discovery. Not really a credible theory but I thought I would throw that in and see what people think!
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Rosie - Feb 7, 2005 4:08 am (#2570 of 2923)
I am re reading OotP at the moment, and came across this passage "... the corpulent, red-nosed wizard who hung on the wall behind the Headmaster's desk... settled himself on the throne-like chair on which he had been painted and smiled benignly on Harry." Source: The Lost Prophecy
I wonder, this is a portrait of Gryffindor in his later days as the First Headmaster, and is the "throne-like chair" a reference to him being the Half-Blood Prince? Maybe this is the way that Harry gets to talk to Gryffindor, by way of his portrait in the Headmaster's room. Maybe there is a portrait of him elsewhere (Gryffindor common room prehaps?).
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 7, 2005 9:20 am (#2571 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Ooooh, very neat Rosie, what page is that on? Does it say that it actually is a pic of GG?
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Steve Newton - Feb 7, 2005 9:25 am (#2572 of 2923)
Librarian
I don't know whether or not this is Gryffindor but he piops up quite often in OOTP. Corpulent would certainly be a different description from the picture in my head.
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Catherine - Feb 7, 2005 10:13 am (#2573 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Rosie,
We know that the "corpulent wizard" is named "Fortescue." There is also another Fortescue in the books: the wizard who owns the ice cream shop who feeds Harry sundaes and tells him stories.
I think it very unlikely that Fortescue is Godric Gryffindor.
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Steve Newton - Feb 7, 2005 10:16 am (#2574 of 2923)
Librarian
Very good, Catherine.
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Katelyn Black - Feb 7, 2005 2:44 pm (#2575 of 2923)
I still have this feeling that Snape is the Half Blood Prince.(like half blood prince of darkness) The way J.K.discribes him in all the books and the mind control thing he does with Harry. James and his friends like to dangle Snape upsidedown like he was some kind of bat.
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Veritaserum - Feb 7, 2005 3:56 pm (#2576 of 2923)
Go Jays!
That would be supremely cool, Katelyn.
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MoonRider - Feb 7, 2005 6:40 pm (#2577 of 2923)
I think that the HBP is revealed to us in the Chapter entitled: "Felix Felicis". I think that the title of this chapter is not the name of the character, itself----but, rather, a clever name for the chapter-----like "Dudley Demented". I think the name of the character is "Mr. Prentice"; Mrs. Figg says: "....what's that at the end of the street? Oh, it's just Mr. Prentice...." (P.21/OotP [American hard-back]); "Prentice might be short for Apprentice----as in, someone who is in training to become king; Mrs. Figg doesn't call him "Prince Prentice" cuz she doesn't know he's a Prince.
Mrs. Figg says "what's that"----she doesn't say "who's that"----leading me t'think it's a thing rather than a person. This brings me to what thing I think it is.....
an Animagus cat! (Sorry----I know some people are probably tired of hearin' about Animagi.)
I'm thinkin' that "Felix" was used simply because of "Felix the Cat"; and, I'm thinkin' "Felicis" means multiple felines-----as I already stated on another thread.
Also, as I've already posted elsewhere, I think the HBP is "in charge of", so-to-speak, the cats-----like, Crookshanks, Mrs. Norris, Mrs. Figg's cats, etc. I think that the chapter "Felix Felicis" is where the excerpt that JKR gave us-----about the lion-like guy with yellow eyes (Crookshanks and Mrs. Norris, both have yellow eyes)-----and, he (the guy in the excerpt) has "bandy legs" (Crookshanks has/means crooked legs)-----came from.
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TGF - Feb 7, 2005 7:07 pm (#2578 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
That's certainly a unique idea, Moonrider, and I wholeheartedly commend you for thinking of something so creative... I also always approve of ideas which involve cats, as cats are clearly the best.
But... well, it's just that we've already had a 'Animagus who's hiding out from persecution' routine with Wormtail, and with Wormtail you had Scabbers around for nearly three whole books before he was revealed. It would seem kind of odd to not only use the Animagus device a second time, but to also use it in reference to a cat that's only been mentioned in one stray line in OotP. If HBP is one of Figgy's cats, it would've been easy to have presented him as her favourite cat, thus giving him more screentime then that one line. Thus, I really don't think Mr. Prentice (whose name also connotates being a helper... and not all apprentices are training to be kings... you can be a blacksmith apprentice, or pirate apprentice, or whatnot) fits the bill.
Cool idea nonetheless though.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 7, 2005 10:31 pm (#2579 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 7, 2005 9:32 pm
Yes, good ideas flowing in this room. Its seems as though just bringing up Mrs. Figs cats as HBP and being animagus would be like TGF said a little redundant. Any-who I think HBP being in the title constitutes a greater importance than to be about someone who Mrs. Figgs could just shrug off "Oh, its just Mr. Prentice". I sometimes feel like everytime someone has had a good idea everyone seems to point out the flaws. I just hope the people whos ideas are contructivly critizied see it as just that.
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pottermom34 - Feb 7, 2005 11:23 pm (#2580 of 2923)
Here's thoery, (this may be a long shot) I have seen where some think Dumbledore is a descendant of Gryffindore, what if Dumbledore is the HBP. (correct me if wrong about his bloodline) what if Gryffindore married a muggle, or had muggle relatives. could this be a possibility? Maybe this is why DD is the only person LV is afraid of. (although now maybe he's getting a little afraid of Harry too).
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The giant squid - Feb 8, 2005 12:52 am (#2581 of 2923)
Correct me if wrong about his bloodline
Well, not really a correction, but I want to point out that we have no canon information about Dumbledore's background. All we know for certain is that he's roughly 150 years old (from a chat, I believe) and that his OWL tester said he "did things with a wand I'd never seen before" (OotP). There's a strong movement behind the "DD is descended from Godric Gryffindor" theory, though, just because it sounds cool.
--Mike
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MoonRider - Feb 8, 2005 10:17 am (#2582 of 2923)
TGF - "but to also use it in reference to a cat that's only been mentioned in one stray line in OotP."
Well, I'm thinkin' there have been other "stray lines".....
What about when Mrs. Figg broke her leg (SS) and Harry "reminded himself it would be a whole year before he had to look at Tibbles, Snowy, Mr. Paws, and Tufy again."
Then----FOUR books later----Mrs. Figg: "....luckily I'd stationed Mr. Tibbles under a car just in case...." Now, is it safe t'assume that these two "Tibbles" are one in the same----I'm thinkin', yeah!
"If HBP is one of Figgy's cats..."
Well, I didn't mean to insinuate that it was one of Mrs. Figg's cats----but, it could be!
"also connotates being a helper... and not all apprentices are training to be kings... you can be a blacksmith apprentice, or pirate apprentice, or whatnot...."
You're absolutely right! I should've said something like: "one of the meanings of 'apprentice' is....".
Thomas - "I just hope the people whos ideas are contructivly critizied see it as just that."
Oh yeah----I do! That's why I was so ecstatic when I found this place----I could bounce my crazy ideas off of people-----and they could point-out where there's holes-----like my eye color theory!
(In case you haven't read it----toooooo silly! LOL)
Oh----and....
TGF?
".....cats are clearly the best."-----TOTALLY!!
....CATS RULE!!!
Thanks you guys!
MoonRider
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MickeyCee3948 - Feb 8, 2005 1:12 pm (#2583 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Thomas Phifer-"I just hope the people whos ideas are contructivly critizied see it as just that."
I think that is the great thing about the lexicon. You put ideas out here, some get shot down and some don't. It makes for a better discussion if you have differing opinions rather than everyone agreeing with each other.
Mikie
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Feb 8, 2005 7:00 pm (#2584 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
My opinion? Like anyone asked for it? LOL Dumbledore is the HBP. It may have nothing to do with his bloodline, or with anything else but his compassion and sense of justice to all living creatures. Dumbledore is a major player, in fact the puppet master of the events in Harry's life. To me that is just too big a role to be passed off by JKR with a few paragraphs of Dumbledore's history or a line or two in a conversation to reveal his past and his role in Harry's life. So what if he was the one who heard the prophesy? He could have turned a deaf ear, may was His choice, after all, the series is about choices. Also, all the alchemy references point to Albus the white progressing towards his own PS. As well as all the other main characters in the books. (Please excuse the A word) All the other speculation about Dumbledore as teacher, mentor, cautious and questioning, (Tom Riddle) I think are valid. There is much about Dumbledore left to be explained.
Therefore, it is my firm conviction that Albus is the half-blood prince. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it until proved wrong by JKR!
If wrong, the forum is invited to join me at St Mungos for a butterbeer and watch to see how many stoat sandwiches and rock cakes I can down... :-)
Edit: I realize this post would have fit under many different threads, but this was the first one I got to when struck by an idea. And yes Hollywand, I am still trying to figure out the tempo to that waltze.
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Eliza - Feb 8, 2005 9:52 pm (#2585 of 2923)
As for DD being the HBP, I don't know. Anything is possible. I do however think it is very likely that DD and/ or the HBP is a descendant of GG. Keep in mind also that a child of a witch and wizard, one of which is muggleborn (Lily), is also considered a half-blood (Harry). I still think that Aunt Marge's Colonel Fubster is going to come into play. Possible half-blood as I am convinced he is an untrained wizard. (See HP6: the Half Blood Prince #2166 for further info on this.)
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Hollywand - Feb 8, 2005 11:41 pm (#2586 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Twinks, I was laughing so merrily reading your post! ;-)
Your suggestion regarding Dumbledore is really intriguing! The reference to "blood" may be a double entendre as you point out, not literal but metaphorical.
Dumbledore is also an expert on the twelve uses of dragon's blood. Half of twelve is six, and we are at Book Six, aren't we? Maybe we will learn half of Dumbledore's knowledge and powers in book six, and the finale in book seven. Order of the Phoenix closed with a pretty awesome display of mysterious magical spells cast between Dumbledore and Voldemort. Hmmmmmm.
High tea at St. Mungo's, and you're definitely invited! ;-)
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 10, 2005 4:04 am (#2587 of 2923)
Something my son said the other day "We live in a Monarchy." I had a sudden flash of inspiration; if the MoM and the British Government work together on occasion, and the most senior wizard is the Minister of Magic NOT the Prime Minister of Wizards, and as we have a Queen (There is only ever one Monarch, being a King or Queen - their partner being a Queen Consort or Prince Consort) There can't be a King or Queen ruling over the Wizarding World in Britain, as they are already ruled over by the Monarch. We have a Prince of Wales, A Duke of York, An Earl of Essex, so there has to be a Viscount of Wizards or some such Royal Representative of the WW, any child of whom would also be titled.
Please: Don't get into a discussion about whether or not there should be a Royal Family in Britain, just accept it as a fact and the rest of my post will make complete sense.
Think about it!
Aurora xx
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So Sirius - Feb 10, 2005 12:15 pm (#2588 of 2923)
Yes, we're even going to have a new Princess Consort. I understand your thinking, but I don't see her going out of her way to write a fantasy and base it on such realism. I think this will be a constructed character, as much as the others.
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Ann - Feb 11, 2005 6:36 am (#2589 of 2923)
I find it hard to imagine, actually, that the half-blood prince could be a major known character, like Dumbledore (or Snape, or Hagrid or even Dean). If it were, once we knew who it was, the title would sound to us like "Harry Potter and Dumbledore," which, given his importance in the earlier books would be a bit weird. And, of course, JKR knows who it is already, so it would sound that way to her already.
And I agree that the royalty mentioned is unlikely to be connected to the present day royal family. If the prince is a present-day person, he is presumably a prince by ancestry only, not someone who has an active role in ruling wizarding Britain. He would have been mentioned long before this if he were.
As I've said before, I think it most likely a historical character (Godric Gryffindor or one of his descendants). Another possibility would be the DADA teacher. If he were a present-day character taken out of CoS someone would have had to be stuck in to fill his place, and Lockhart has always seemed to me quite a lot like a last minute fill-in. He's anomalous because he's based on an actual person, and although he does have some effect on the plot at the end, he's mostly comic relief and it would be fairly easy to take him out of the book.
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Steve Newton - Feb 11, 2005 7:03 am (#2590 of 2923)
Librarian
I don't think that there is really any way that we can figure out who the HBP is. Not enough information. I can't even rule out Sir Cadogan.
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Liz Mann - Feb 11, 2005 11:55 am (#2591 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Just to break away from the current discussion for a moment - The Leaky Cauldron is saying that the page length for the British edition of HBP is 608 pages (GoF was 636). After finding page number 608 in my hardback edition of GoF, and seeing just how thick HBP is going to be, I'm really quite happy.
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TGF - Feb 11, 2005 1:44 pm (#2592 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
But when I open my hardback UK OotP, I see 766 pages in all. 766 is a number that makes the number 608 seem so frail and weak. Hopefully it's just a big typo and it's meant to be 6080.
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So Sirius - Feb 11, 2005 7:37 pm (#2593 of 2923)
This was posted on the Veritaserum website.
"There's been quite a bit of debate ever since last June over whether the Half-Blood Prince is a prince that is a half-blood or a prince of the half-bloods. French reader Céline has let us know that the French title of the sixth book has been announced as Le Prince au sang mêlé, which directly translates into English as "the prince who is a half-blood."
It's possible that the translator is merely speculating as to the meaning of 'Half-Blood Prince,' but in past cases where translators have been unsure about something, they've usually been able to touch base with one of JKR's literary agents, who can provide them with the information they need.
Update: Ilaria has informed us that the Italian title of the book is Harry Potter e il Principe Mezzosangue, which also literally translates to "the prince who is a half-blood."
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Delightful Task! - Feb 12, 2005 2:57 pm (#2594 of 2923)
I was thinking about that character who was described when the door was opened...
(He) looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.
Of course this could be the heir of Gryffindor... or the Half Blood Prince... But it made me think of Crookshank... Now, I've read what you all think... we've seen many unregistered animagi already, so it would be surprising if there happened to be another one... _(Anyway, If Crookshank eventually turned out to be an animagus, I would love it, Jo!!!)
What came to my mind just yesterday was... and if Crookshank was really a cat-kneazle, but there was a spell to turn particularly intelligent animals into human beings?!
I don't know how it could come in useful for the plot though... But that would be cool!
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haymoni - Feb 12, 2005 5:33 pm (#2595 of 2923)
TLC reported that the book is going to be 608 pages long and that the US version was going to be 672 pages long.
Why so much longer? Bigger print? Is the spacing different?
I only have US editions of the books so I don't know if there has been this great a difference in the other books.
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 12, 2005 9:32 pm (#2596 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Oh yeah, someone mentioned Draco, didn't they?
If there were a hole in Draco's lineage, he wouldn't be on the Black family tapestry. The offender would've been burned off, and none of that chain of descendents would never have made it on. Unless someone's proposing that Narcissa is a secret half-blood (WHY would she marry Lucius then?), Draco isn't a Half Blood. TGF
I don't understand why you think Narcissa would have to be the secret half-blood. The tapestry shows the Black family's lineage, so her blood status is well documented. Lucius, on the other hand, was added to the tapestry when he married her. His pure-bloodedness is assumed by both the Blacks and us. We know nothing of his actual ancestry. If Draco is the HBP, as I think he is, it will come from the Malfoy side of the family.
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haymoni - Feb 12, 2005 9:44 pm (#2597 of 2923)
So would "Draco's Detour" be connected with his being the HBP???
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Ainsley Black - Feb 13, 2005 5:25 am (#2598 of 2923)
haymoni - as far as i'm aware the US versions have chapter artwork do they not? Well we get no such thing in the UK editions
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I Am Used Vlad - Feb 13, 2005 11:21 am (#2599 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
If Draco is the HBP, I don't think we will find out as early as chapter 6, but Draco's Detour could offer clues or set up the story line that leads to us finding out.
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 13, 2005 3:14 pm (#2600 of 2923)
We found out fairly early on what the Order of the Phoenix was!
Aurora xx
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Last edited by Elanor on Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2601 to 2650)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:14 am
haymoni - Feb 13, 2005 6:16 pm (#2601 of 2923)
My US versions have a drawing at the start of each chapter, but they aren't very big - about 2 inches tall.
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MoonRider - Feb 14, 2005 4:38 am (#2602 of 2923)
Delightful Task - JKR has already said, on her site, that Crookshanks is not an Animagus. She said: "....but he is part kneazle" (or, something like that).
That's where I got the idea, though, because this guy (in the excerpt) sounds so much like Crookshanks-----the yellow eyes, the bandy legs, being graceful, etc., etc.
Also, he may be registered-----Hermione wouldn't know who he was, so she wouldn't have any reason to tell anybody, you know?
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Delightful Task! - Feb 14, 2005 8:08 am (#2603 of 2923)
You must be right Moonrider, I suppose that if Crookshank is part Kneazle, he can't be an animagus... Therefore I stick to my idea... perhaps there's a spell to turn some particularly clever animals into "humans"... That spell might be "felix felicis" by the way! (I was under the impression that felix felicis was rather linked to happiness though, and I don't see why a cat would be happy to be turned into a man or a woman!)
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Star Crossed - Feb 14, 2005 6:24 pm (#2604 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Anyone else thinking of Sabrina or is it just me? This idea sounds like what happened to Salem, but backwards.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 14, 2005 10:46 pm (#2605 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Denise P. Feb 15, 2005 6:52 am
Hi all im back from a short break. Happy Valintines Day everyone, do people in UK celebrate Valentine's Day? Yes in US we get nice little black and white drawings of a scene from the following chapter. It's nice I guess. I'm not trying to rub it in or anything. Ha. Well I am getting more and more convinced that hbp is leaning towards Draco. These are some very good evidence.
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 15, 2005 3:23 am (#2606 of 2923)
Thomas: Can you remind us of the evidence please? All I can think of is Lucius Malfoy appearing on the tapestry...he wouldn't have been there as a known Half Blood. Mind you, taking a reference from Muggle history, very few people were aware that Hitler was a Half Blood as he had a Jewish grandfather, so, just like Tom Riddle you can secretly be Half-Blood and know as Pure-Evil! Guess we'll find out in a few months about Draco...maybe
Aurora xx
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 15, 2005 9:28 am (#2607 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 15, 2005 8:29 am
Well there's the chapter called Draco's detour and we do not know Lucious's blood line for sure. Plus it seems in JK's nature to write something as ironic as Draco being the half blood prince. Harry somehow finds out peering behind some bush watching Draco do something that gives his identity away. But yes I guess we will find out soon enough.
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MickeyCee3948 - Feb 15, 2005 2:43 pm (#2608 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I don't see that much evidence that Draco is the HBP. As Aurora pointed out his family is included on the Black Tapestry and Mrs. Black seemed inclined to remove any persons who even associated with muggles(ie. the Weasleys).
Doubt that the Malfoys would have slipped past her DNA test. HeeHee.
Mikie
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Eponine - Feb 15, 2005 8:20 pm (#2609 of 2923)
Going back to Haymoni's questions about the difference in length. I have both UK and US editions of all the books, and the UK editions are more compact than the US editions. The UK pages are about 8"x5", and the US pages are about 9"x6". So the UK editions have fewer words per page, therefore they must have more pages.
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 16, 2005 6:19 am (#2610 of 2923)
I think that's something to do with paper sizes. The sheets from which books are made come in different widths in US as compared to UK. I'm a bit cheesed off that we don't get extra illustrations though!
Aurora xx
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TGF - Feb 16, 2005 3:07 pm (#2611 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Meh, I have the American version of Harry Potter, along with the UK one, and I really don't care for the art. I absolutely hated the way they drew Umbridge especially. If you want to see it anyway, then you can just find them online (Mugglenet has them, I think)
The UK version will always be better because of the 'Philosopher' to 'Sorceror' change in the US version. What a superweak change.
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pottermom34 - Feb 16, 2005 9:30 pm (#2612 of 2923)
FIVE MORE MONTHS TO GO !!!!!!!!!
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veraco - Feb 17, 2005 6:51 am (#2613 of 2923)
One question... It's just that I have the impression that when JKR talks about a half-blood she is letting us known a character in half wizard and half muggle. Meanwhile when she says someone is a half-bread is when the character is one half human and one half not human.... or one half of a specie and one half of the other.
Now, am I correct? or it's just my english playing tricks with me again?
If I'm correct then I guess we can assume Hagrid is not the HBP.
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Star Crossed - Feb 17, 2005 7:27 pm (#2614 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Veraco, that is correct. That is one of the reasons why I do not like Hagrid as the HBP.
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pottermom34 - Feb 17, 2005 10:44 pm (#2615 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP isn't even anyone we know maybe he'll be a new character, like maybe the new DADA teacher.
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TGF - Feb 18, 2005 3:52 pm (#2616 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Has anyone else had dreams about reading the book? I had a crazy dream last night, where I was reading HP6, but kept losing my page, and the book kept getting longer and shorter. The dream got a lot crazier after that, but describing it all would be too off topic.
I had another dream a few weeks before that I was trying to read HP6, but the text was too small for me to make out.
Hmm would a thread 'Harry Potter dreams' be good for the Harry Potter Phenomenon section or no? What do you think Kip/Denise?
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Denise P. - Feb 18, 2005 6:31 pm (#2617 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
Dreams are already part of the "You Know You Are A Harry Potter..." thread. I don't think starting another thread specifically for dreams would be necessary.
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Joanne R. Reid - Feb 19, 2005 11:40 am (#2618 of 2923)
Hi, TGF
LOL. :-D
We're all a bit obsessed, else we'd not be on this site gabbing about a children's book. But, then again, we are. And,it's not. And ... Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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green shoes - Feb 19, 2005 4:58 pm (#2619 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
HP isn't a children's book (officially). Some people just think it's childish, so they say it is. Sorry, it just bothers me when people refer to it that way.
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Amilia Smith - Feb 19, 2005 6:56 pm (#2620 of 2923)
What makes it "officially" a children's book? It has been in the children's section of every library I have ever visited. The New York Times created a special Children's Bestseller list to get Harry off of the regular Bestseller list. Bloomsbury issues special "adult" editions so that grown-ups wouldn't feel silly reading kiddie books on their morning commute. Therefore I've always considered it a children's book. (Much to my detriment as I didn't read them for the longest time for that very reason.)
In reading this post over, I realize I come across sounding rude. Please don't take offence, green shoes. I don't mean to sound sarcastic. I really am curious as to what makes a book officially for adults or for children.
Mills.
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Helen Potterfan - Feb 19, 2005 8:09 pm (#2621 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
We're all a bit obsessed, else we'd not be on this site gabbing about a children's book. But, then again, we are. And,it's not. And ... Accio, Half-Blood Prince! --Joanne R. Reid
Joanne, you called?!!
I don't know if he is the half-blood prince, but I do think it's curious that we know so little about Dumbledore's family when we've learned about many of the other pivotal characters in the war. I also think Aberforth must be more important in 6 or 7, otherwise why bother hiding him in plain sight?
Madam Scoop's quotes page has all of Jo's references to Dumbledore outside of the books. You can see them here
(I really love Madam Scoop's site. You can select quotes by theme in order to see a list of JKR's references to all of the major characters and the books!--you can always get to the site by clicking on "quotes" from the lexicon or TLC home pages)
On another note, I also noted on Madam Scoop's page on books 6 and 7 that JKR mentioned in an interview that what Lilly and James did (for a living) is important in an upcoming book (this was when 4 was coming out). I wonder if there is any possible connection to what they did and the half-blood prince? I have no theories on this at the moment.
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Gerald Costales - Feb 20, 2005 8:23 am (#2622 of 2923)
"I also noted on Madam Scoop's page on books 6 and 7 that JKR mentioned in an interview that what Lilly and James did (for a living) is important in an upcoming book (this was when 4 was coming out). I wonder if there is any possible connection to what they did and the half-blood prince? I have no theories on this at the moment." ACCIO HBP
I've posted that James and Lily were alchemists or apprentice alchemists to Flamel. This would fit in with the fact that at one time it was the Potters not Dumbledore that had the Philosopher’s/Sorcerer’s Stone.
If James and Lily were alchemists or were studying alchemy with Flamel, I’d venture to say that the HBP’s connection would be to Flamel not the Potters. I’ve envisioned the HBP as a historical figure, like Salazar Slytherin or Godric Gryffindor. Our knowledge of the HBP would be revealed in a flashback similar to the flashback used to expose Tom Riddle’s cold-blooded murders of his Father and Grandparents.
Then someone related to Flamel, a relative, friend, or client, could be the HBP. Now, Flamel must of had some clients as an alchemist? Couldn’t a Prince have approached Flamel to buy the Elixir of Life? Then the HBP could be alive or an ex-client of Flamel or better yet even Flamel himself. But, I doubt that Flamel is the HBP because Flamel has died or is dieing. Also, Flamel could turn base metals into gold and Flamel wouldn’t need to sale the Elixir of Life to gain wealth. So, the HBP may not be an ex-client of Flamel.
But here’s another thought, Voldermort or Harry isn’t the HBP. But, what if Tom Riddle’s grandfather was the HBP. Prince Marvolo? Then, Voldermort would be a quarter-blood wizard not a half-blood. (Fleur is a quarter Vela because of one of her Grandmothers.) But, a Muggle Half-Blood Prince could be half British and half German, etc. PRINCE RIDDLE? Why not? Then, Voldermort could be a Lord because his Grandfather or his Father was a Muggle Half-Blood Prince. Since, I haven’t seen another Wizard royalty besides King Weasley. Prince Riddle could make sense. ;-) GC
PS Prince Riddle makes more sense than Prince Draco or Prince Neville as the HBP. ;-) GC
PPS Prince Trevor? *ribbet* Next thing there'll be speculation that Crookshanks *meow* or Errol *hoot* are animagi. Really the HBP has to be Humanoid?!?! ;-) GC
PPPS Prince Firenze? I really need to get back to my theory that Dobby is the Half-Blood Prince. ;-) GC
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Timothy Bourgeois - Feb 20, 2005 11:19 am (#2623 of 2923)
I really don't have any clue who the HBP is , there is so many possibilitie . As far as the little paragragh we gor from JKR's wedsite (the one describing someone looking like a lion ) , I don't think that's a description of the HBP , I think its describing Dumbledore's brother . I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that JKR said we would learn more about Dumbledore's brother in the next 2 books
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Joanne R. Reid - Feb 20, 2005 11:27 am (#2624 of 2923)
Green Shoes,
Let's remember that Lord of the Rings was also considered a children's story, mostly because of The Hobbit. Alice in Wonderland, Through the Looking Glass, Gulliver's Travels and many others were also considered children's stories.
Obviously, none of them were or are. Perhaps one of the marks of great literature is that they are written on many levels. They contain the essence of wonder, curiousity and humor that are the hallwarks of children's literature. Yet, they also contain an epic tale of good and evil, characters that live on in our hearts and minds, and the promise of a revelation of the human condition that will stir our souls.
This is why we can read these books to our grand children. We can feel the thrills that they feel, and know that years from now, their grandchildren will ask them, "Grandma, who is the Half-Blood Prince?"
And, just as we did, they will smile knowingly, replying, "You'll have wait for the next book, just as I did."
Accio, Half-Blood Prince
Thanks,
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josenegro - Feb 20, 2005 3:24 pm (#2625 of 2923)
I think the HBP will have to be a new character, someone to replace the loss of Sirius. I also think that the HBP will in some way be the answer to the overall riddle that is the Harry Potter Series. These of course are all speculations, but what else could they be? Too, since it is a Blood Prince, we're dealing with geneaology, another link made to Sirius and the time she took detail his family tree...But who's and from where? An English Prince? Or could she bring back the international community that she touched on in book 4 by way of the Prince? A Prince from Turkey? Or an Arabian Prince? So many questions, only months left to find out! In general, I think of the Harry Potter series as two series: books 1,3,5,7 and books 2,4,6. For that reason, I find it possible, that the prince may be from another country.
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Helen Potterfan - Feb 22, 2005 8:45 pm (#2626 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
The scholastic web site has a poster for HBP which includes cover art from the previous 5 books. Also included in the purple area which matches the HBP title is a color picture of Dobby (or another house elf) and Nagini (or another snake). Since they're in color, I'm wondering if they'll be on the cover of 6, or if they're just color versions of previous pictures. The picture of Dobby looks familiar, but I'm not sure if I've seen it in the black and white. If it is from 6, I wonder what's in his hands? I'm not sure it is Dobby. Has scholastic done this for past books that anyone can remember?
If this is cover art, house elves may be an important part of the HBP plot line.
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The giant squid - Feb 22, 2005 9:00 pm (#2627 of 2923)
Accio HBP, the picture of Dobby is the chapter heading art from CoS Ch. 2 "Dobby's Warning". I don't recognise the snake art, though--it's neither a chapter heading pic of Nagini nor the pythin(?) from SS/PS.
--Mike
EDIT: The Dobby pic is also Steve Newton's avatar, which is probably why it looked so familiar.
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Steve Newton - Feb 23, 2005 7:06 am (#2628 of 2923)
Librarian
I have to confess that my son picked out my avatar. No idea where he got it. I do like it.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 23, 2005 8:18 am (#2629 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 23, 2005 7:19 am
Isnt Dumbledore's brother the one who works in Hogs Head behind the counter with the dirty rag? I have a vague memory of this. He's the weirdo right? Any speculation about him being significant in HBP?
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Albus Silente - Feb 23, 2005 8:22 am (#2630 of 2923)
thomas, go right to the aberforth dumbledore topic, you might find some information there;-)
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Helen Potterfan - Feb 23, 2005 9:08 am (#2631 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Thanks giant squid and Steve, I knew the picture looked familiar!! It's still an interesting poster, but I guess not much help HBP clues. Steve, now you can have your avatar in color if you want!
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Steve Newton - Feb 23, 2005 9:45 am (#2632 of 2923)
Librarian
Good idea. I'll take it up with the Avatar Committee (my son).
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Eponine - Feb 26, 2005 10:55 am (#2633 of 2923)
Mugglenet just posted a report from a school librarian who received a catalogue for pre-orders that had this to say about HBP.
"With something huge revealed about Lily Potter, the truth about why Dumbledore trusts Snape, and a little romance for Harry, this promises to be one of his best years at Hogwarts yet."
Interesting. I'd love to know why DD trusts Snape.
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 26, 2005 11:09 am (#2634 of 2923)
This makes me think the opening chapter will be a flashback to James and Lily, perhaps early in their relationship
Aurora xx
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TGF - Feb 26, 2005 12:48 pm (#2635 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I think the huge thing about Lily Potter is the interesting part. We really don't know anything about her, besides what was seen in Snape's Penseive scene.
It's strange that we've seen James' old friends, but none of Lily's... What happened to HER friends anyway? Hmmm... then again, maybe they all ended up on the wrong end of an AK. That's perfectly possible.
I imagine that Snape gave something up/sacrificed something important to him by joining Dumbledore. What that was though is just impossible to decipher.
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mike miller - Feb 26, 2005 1:01 pm (#2636 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I've been partial to the flashback first chapter since JKR told us it's something she's worked on for years and just didn't fit before. More information about Lily could be contrasted with info about Tom Riddle's mother to help explain why Tom chose the "dark path".
JKR has said that we will learn more about Tom's birth, mother and family in the final books. We need to understand a character's motivation to make his/her actions beleivable. I have often wondered how Tom Riddle learned about his family history and link back to Salazar Slytherin. I have always assumed that Tom's mother died very shortly after his birth and would not have been able to provide much history.
Tom and Harry both grew up in less than desirable circumstances until they received their Hogwarts letters. Their paths seem to diverge very quickly once they are introduced to the Wizard World. Why?
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GryffEndora - Feb 26, 2005 1:49 pm (#2637 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I have always assumed that Tom's mother died very shortly after his birth and would not have been able to provide much history.
I seem to recall Tom telling Harry his mother died during childbirth, I think in CoS, can someone help me out, I don't have my books with me. I agree, mike miller, how does an orphan learn about his family history? Maybe she left him the family Bible or something similar? Good question.
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TGF - Feb 26, 2005 2:17 pm (#2638 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
As long as we're talking about Tom... When Tom was around 12 or 13 years old (1940), in the summer before his third year, Tom Riddle would have been in London as it was being bombed by the Luftwaffe. Two years later he was opening the Chamber and running his own personal mini-holocaust in Hogwarts.
There's an essay on this in the Lexicon (which I wrote...) but I think it's mod policy that no essays are supposed to be posted/linked to (or is that only for non-Lexicon essays perhaps?). Still, there's a rather pronounced connection between WWII and the early Riddle.
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Liz Mann - Feb 26, 2005 2:49 pm (#2639 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Mugglenet is saying that in HBP we find out the truth about why Dumbledore trusts Snape and also something huge about Lily.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 26, 2005 3:29 pm (#2640 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
:quivers uncontrollably:
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MoonRider - Feb 26, 2005 3:53 pm (#2641 of 2923)
GryffEndora: Tom's mother lived just long enough to name him:
"'My mother died just after I was born, sir. They told me at the orphanage she lived just long enough to name me----Tom after my father, Marvolo after my grandfather.'"
All: maybe that's how he found-out other information about his family----maybe it was in his file when he was taken there? Who took him to the orphanage-----his father had run-off, and his mother was dead. Maybe whomever took him told the orphanage "stuff" about his family.....
Hey----do you think it was DD that took him to the orphanage? That idea just popped in my mind! That would be something else that he had in common with Harry! OMG, I just thought of that-----what do you guys think? OMG, it's really bubbling-up inside me, now-----there's all kinds of things that I'm thinking of, that could point in that direction!
Anxiously awaiting responses.....
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Liz Mann - Feb 26, 2005 4:01 pm (#2642 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
That would partly explain why he hates Dumbledore so much, because Dumbledore handed him over to a place that he clearly hated!
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mike miller - Feb 26, 2005 6:57 pm (#2643 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I tend to lean away from the Dumbledore angle in Tom's situation. I don't think everything has to come back around to DD. It's possible that Tom's mother left the boy's father's name with the Muggle authorities. I seem to remember Tom saying something about his father not wanting him; so that's why he ended up at the orphanage.
I wonder if Tom hated both his parents; his father for disowning him and his mother for not returning to the Wizard World before he was born. Why Tom's mother did not return to her family is a question that needs answering. At least, she could have gone to St. Mungo's. It is possible that her family disowned her for getting involved with a Muggle, more pure blood mania.
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Star Crossed - Feb 26, 2005 7:24 pm (#2644 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Dumbledore got involved in Tom's placing. At the time, he was just a deputy headmaster (I believe. He was at least a professor.) and Tom was just some boy lacking a family. But Harry was the hero of the Wizarding World with people all over wanting him dead. Don't really compare.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 26, 2005 7:51 pm (#2645 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I don't think DD got involved either. Asie from what Star Crossed said (and with which I agree), I don't think DD would have placed an orphaned wizard child in the hands of a muggle orphanage. Harry was placed with muggles because they were his only living relatives. Also, I think it was said that Tom Riddle senior had the child placed. Or, was it that his mother died during delivery in a muggle hospital?
Something like that... Sorry, that was no help at all!
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vball man - Feb 27, 2005 12:02 am (#2646 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
MoonRider - Hey----do you think it was DD that took him to the orphanage? That idea just popped in my mind! That would be something else that he had in common with Harry! OMG, I just thought of that-----what do you guys think? OMG, it's really bubbling-up inside me, now-----there's all kinds of things that I'm thinking of, that could point in that direction!
- Yes, I do think that Dumbledore put him there. I've posted that idea before in the Recurring Boy who Lived thread.
Star Crossed - I don't think Dumbledore got involved in Tom's placing. At the time, he was just a deputy headmaster (I believe. He was at least a professor.) and Tom was just some boy lacking a family. But Harry was the hero of the Wizarding World with people all over wanting him dead. Don't really compare.
- Well, Star Crossed, you make a good point. That is, why should a deputy headmaster be the one to deal with the newborn named Tom Riddle? But really, it seems to me that some would wonder the same about Harry. Dumbledore was headmaster by then - but would that give him the right to "see to the boy's future"?
Also, we can't rule out any contact between Mrs. Riddle and Dumbledore. She married a muggle, after all, perhaps she knew and trusted Dumbledore just as James and Lily did.
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The Artful Dodger - Feb 27, 2005 2:00 am (#2647 of 2923)
Well, Dumbledore wasn't only Hogwarts headmaster, but also Head of the Order of the Phoenix, and Voldemort's archenemy, and apparently a good friend of Lily and James. That certainly explains (for me at least) why Dumbledore was the one to care for Harry in the future.
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Eponine - Feb 27, 2005 7:50 am (#2648 of 2923)
Okay, I probably posted that blurb about HBP too soon, since The Leaky Cauldron has just reported that it's not genuine.
--Goes off to iron her hands.--
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GryffEndora - Feb 27, 2005 8:35 am (#2649 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
MoonRider, thanks for the quote. Why do I need a pensive to remember things correctly when I have the Lexicon?
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MoonRider - Feb 27, 2005 9:28 am (#2650 of 2923)
GryffEndora: You're quite welcome!
I had a notion last night-----and vballman just seemed to reinforce it.....
I'm thinking maybe DD "took care of" Tom, so-to-speak, when he was a baby (took him to the orphanage) because maybe he can see into the future (I read something, somewhere about DD having all those stars on his robes). I'm thinking that it's possible that he "could tell" that Tom was going to be a powerful wizard-----maybe not that he was going to be wicked, because that was his choice-----just like when Harry chose not to be sorted into Slytherin.....
anyway, I'm thinking that DD knew of Tom's greatness-----remember he said, something like, that he was probably the most brilliant wizard to ever attend Hogwarts? Well, wouldn't it make sense that he would want to, like, "preserve"/rescue/whatever a wizard that was going to be so great? DD's so mild-mannered now, but maybe he used to have a "hero complex" too?
Also, if he could foresee this, he probably could foresee that there was going to be these wars-----even though he couldn't "see" who was/how there were to be involved or whatever-----if it's true that Voldemort chose to be in Slytherin----and he wanted to have this great wizard (Tom) on the "good side".
Thanks, bushels, you guys!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
My US versions have a drawing at the start of each chapter, but they aren't very big - about 2 inches tall.
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MoonRider - Feb 14, 2005 4:38 am (#2602 of 2923)
Delightful Task - JKR has already said, on her site, that Crookshanks is not an Animagus. She said: "....but he is part kneazle" (or, something like that).
That's where I got the idea, though, because this guy (in the excerpt) sounds so much like Crookshanks-----the yellow eyes, the bandy legs, being graceful, etc., etc.
Also, he may be registered-----Hermione wouldn't know who he was, so she wouldn't have any reason to tell anybody, you know?
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Delightful Task! - Feb 14, 2005 8:08 am (#2603 of 2923)
You must be right Moonrider, I suppose that if Crookshank is part Kneazle, he can't be an animagus... Therefore I stick to my idea... perhaps there's a spell to turn some particularly clever animals into "humans"... That spell might be "felix felicis" by the way! (I was under the impression that felix felicis was rather linked to happiness though, and I don't see why a cat would be happy to be turned into a man or a woman!)
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Star Crossed - Feb 14, 2005 6:24 pm (#2604 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Anyone else thinking of Sabrina or is it just me? This idea sounds like what happened to Salem, but backwards.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 14, 2005 10:46 pm (#2605 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Denise P. Feb 15, 2005 6:52 am
Hi all im back from a short break. Happy Valintines Day everyone, do people in UK celebrate Valentine's Day? Yes in US we get nice little black and white drawings of a scene from the following chapter. It's nice I guess. I'm not trying to rub it in or anything.
Ha. Well I am getting more and more convinced that hbp is leaning towards Draco. These are some very good evidence. - - - - - - - - - -
Aurora Gubbins - Feb 15, 2005 3:23 am (#2606 of 2923)
Thomas: Can you remind us of the evidence please? All I can think of is Lucius Malfoy appearing on the tapestry...he wouldn't have been there as a known Half Blood. Mind you, taking a reference from Muggle history, very few people were aware that Hitler was a Half Blood as he had a Jewish grandfather, so, just like Tom Riddle you can secretly be Half-Blood and know as Pure-Evil! Guess we'll find out in a few months about Draco...maybe
Aurora xx
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 15, 2005 9:28 am (#2607 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 15, 2005 8:29 am
Well there's the chapter called Draco's detour and we do not know Lucious's blood line for sure. Plus it seems in JK's nature to write something as ironic as Draco being the half blood prince. Harry somehow finds out peering behind some bush watching Draco do something that gives his identity away. But yes I guess we will find out soon enough.
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MickeyCee3948 - Feb 15, 2005 2:43 pm (#2608 of 2923)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I don't see that much evidence that Draco is the HBP. As Aurora pointed out his family is included on the Black Tapestry and Mrs. Black seemed inclined to remove any persons who even associated with muggles(ie. the Weasleys).
Doubt that the Malfoys would have slipped past her DNA test. HeeHee.
Mikie
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Eponine - Feb 15, 2005 8:20 pm (#2609 of 2923)
Going back to Haymoni's questions about the difference in length. I have both UK and US editions of all the books, and the UK editions are more compact than the US editions. The UK pages are about 8"x5", and the US pages are about 9"x6". So the UK editions have fewer words per page, therefore they must have more pages.
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 16, 2005 6:19 am (#2610 of 2923)
I think that's something to do with paper sizes. The sheets from which books are made come in different widths in US as compared to UK. I'm a bit cheesed off that we don't get extra illustrations though!
Aurora xx
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TGF - Feb 16, 2005 3:07 pm (#2611 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Meh, I have the American version of Harry Potter, along with the UK one, and I really don't care for the art. I absolutely hated the way they drew Umbridge especially. If you want to see it anyway, then you can just find them online (Mugglenet has them, I think)
The UK version will always be better because of the 'Philosopher' to 'Sorceror' change in the US version. What a superweak change.
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pottermom34 - Feb 16, 2005 9:30 pm (#2612 of 2923)
FIVE MORE MONTHS TO GO !!!!!!!!!
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veraco - Feb 17, 2005 6:51 am (#2613 of 2923)
One question... It's just that I have the impression that when JKR talks about a half-blood she is letting us known a character in half wizard and half muggle. Meanwhile when she says someone is a half-bread is when the character is one half human and one half not human.... or one half of a specie and one half of the other.
Now, am I correct? or it's just my english playing tricks with me again?
If I'm correct then I guess we can assume Hagrid is not the HBP.
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Star Crossed - Feb 17, 2005 7:27 pm (#2614 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Veraco, that is correct. That is one of the reasons why I do not like Hagrid as the HBP.
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pottermom34 - Feb 17, 2005 10:44 pm (#2615 of 2923)
Maybe the HBP isn't even anyone we know maybe he'll be a new character, like maybe the new DADA teacher.
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TGF - Feb 18, 2005 3:52 pm (#2616 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Has anyone else had dreams about reading the book? I had a crazy dream last night, where I was reading HP6, but kept losing my page, and the book kept getting longer and shorter. The dream got a lot crazier after that, but describing it all would be too off topic.
I had another dream a few weeks before that I was trying to read HP6, but the text was too small for me to make out.
Hmm would a thread 'Harry Potter dreams' be good for the Harry Potter Phenomenon section or no? What do you think Kip/Denise?
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Denise P. - Feb 18, 2005 6:31 pm (#2617 of 2923)
Ravenclaw Pony
Dreams are already part of the "You Know You Are A Harry Potter..." thread. I don't think starting another thread specifically for dreams would be necessary.
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Joanne R. Reid - Feb 19, 2005 11:40 am (#2618 of 2923)
Hi, TGF
LOL. :-D
We're all a bit obsessed, else we'd not be on this site gabbing about a children's book. But, then again, we are. And,it's not. And ... Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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green shoes - Feb 19, 2005 4:58 pm (#2619 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
HP isn't a children's book (officially). Some people just think it's childish, so they say it is. Sorry, it just bothers me when people refer to it that way.
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Amilia Smith - Feb 19, 2005 6:56 pm (#2620 of 2923)
What makes it "officially" a children's book? It has been in the children's section of every library I have ever visited. The New York Times created a special Children's Bestseller list to get Harry off of the regular Bestseller list. Bloomsbury issues special "adult" editions so that grown-ups wouldn't feel silly reading kiddie books on their morning commute. Therefore I've always considered it a children's book. (Much to my detriment as I didn't read them for the longest time for that very reason.)
In reading this post over, I realize I come across sounding rude. Please don't take offence, green shoes. I don't mean to sound sarcastic. I really am curious as to what makes a book officially for adults or for children.
Mills.
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Helen Potterfan - Feb 19, 2005 8:09 pm (#2621 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
We're all a bit obsessed, else we'd not be on this site gabbing about a children's book. But, then again, we are. And,it's not. And ... Accio, Half-Blood Prince! --Joanne R. Reid
Joanne, you called?!!
I don't know if he is the half-blood prince, but I do think it's curious that we know so little about Dumbledore's family when we've learned about many of the other pivotal characters in the war. I also think Aberforth must be more important in 6 or 7, otherwise why bother hiding him in plain sight?
Madam Scoop's quotes page has all of Jo's references to Dumbledore outside of the books. You can see them here
(I really love Madam Scoop's site. You can select quotes by theme in order to see a list of JKR's references to all of the major characters and the books!--you can always get to the site by clicking on "quotes" from the lexicon or TLC home pages)
On another note, I also noted on Madam Scoop's page on books 6 and 7 that JKR mentioned in an interview that what Lilly and James did (for a living) is important in an upcoming book (this was when 4 was coming out). I wonder if there is any possible connection to what they did and the half-blood prince? I have no theories on this at the moment.
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Gerald Costales - Feb 20, 2005 8:23 am (#2622 of 2923)
"I also noted on Madam Scoop's page on books 6 and 7 that JKR mentioned in an interview that what Lilly and James did (for a living) is important in an upcoming book (this was when 4 was coming out). I wonder if there is any possible connection to what they did and the half-blood prince? I have no theories on this at the moment." ACCIO HBP
I've posted that James and Lily were alchemists or apprentice alchemists to Flamel. This would fit in with the fact that at one time it was the Potters not Dumbledore that had the Philosopher’s/Sorcerer’s Stone.
If James and Lily were alchemists or were studying alchemy with Flamel, I’d venture to say that the HBP’s connection would be to Flamel not the Potters. I’ve envisioned the HBP as a historical figure, like Salazar Slytherin or Godric Gryffindor. Our knowledge of the HBP would be revealed in a flashback similar to the flashback used to expose Tom Riddle’s cold-blooded murders of his Father and Grandparents.
Then someone related to Flamel, a relative, friend, or client, could be the HBP. Now, Flamel must of had some clients as an alchemist? Couldn’t a Prince have approached Flamel to buy the Elixir of Life? Then the HBP could be alive or an ex-client of Flamel or better yet even Flamel himself. But, I doubt that Flamel is the HBP because Flamel has died or is dieing. Also, Flamel could turn base metals into gold and Flamel wouldn’t need to sale the Elixir of Life to gain wealth. So, the HBP may not be an ex-client of Flamel.
But here’s another thought, Voldermort or Harry isn’t the HBP. But, what if Tom Riddle’s grandfather was the HBP. Prince Marvolo? Then, Voldermort would be a quarter-blood wizard not a half-blood. (Fleur is a quarter Vela because of one of her Grandmothers.) But, a Muggle Half-Blood Prince could be half British and half German, etc. PRINCE RIDDLE? Why not? Then, Voldermort could be a Lord because his Grandfather or his Father was a Muggle Half-Blood Prince. Since, I haven’t seen another Wizard royalty besides King Weasley. Prince Riddle could make sense. ;-) GC
PS Prince Riddle makes more sense than Prince Draco or Prince Neville as the HBP. ;-) GC
PPS Prince Trevor? *ribbet* Next thing there'll be speculation that Crookshanks *meow* or Errol *hoot* are animagi. Really the HBP has to be Humanoid?!?! ;-) GC
PPPS Prince Firenze? I really need to get back to my theory that Dobby is the Half-Blood Prince. ;-) GC
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Timothy Bourgeois - Feb 20, 2005 11:19 am (#2623 of 2923)
I really don't have any clue who the HBP is , there is so many possibilitie . As far as the little paragragh we gor from JKR's wedsite (the one describing someone looking like a lion ) , I don't think that's a description of the HBP , I think its describing Dumbledore's brother . I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that JKR said we would learn more about Dumbledore's brother in the next 2 books
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Joanne R. Reid - Feb 20, 2005 11:27 am (#2624 of 2923)
Green Shoes,
Let's remember that Lord of the Rings was also considered a children's story, mostly because of The Hobbit. Alice in Wonderland, Through the Looking Glass, Gulliver's Travels and many others were also considered children's stories.
Obviously, none of them were or are. Perhaps one of the marks of great literature is that they are written on many levels. They contain the essence of wonder, curiousity and humor that are the hallwarks of children's literature. Yet, they also contain an epic tale of good and evil, characters that live on in our hearts and minds, and the promise of a revelation of the human condition that will stir our souls.
This is why we can read these books to our grand children. We can feel the thrills that they feel, and know that years from now, their grandchildren will ask them, "Grandma, who is the Half-Blood Prince?"
And, just as we did, they will smile knowingly, replying, "You'll have wait for the next book, just as I did."
Accio, Half-Blood Prince
Thanks,
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josenegro - Feb 20, 2005 3:24 pm (#2625 of 2923)
I think the HBP will have to be a new character, someone to replace the loss of Sirius. I also think that the HBP will in some way be the answer to the overall riddle that is the Harry Potter Series. These of course are all speculations, but what else could they be? Too, since it is a Blood Prince, we're dealing with geneaology, another link made to Sirius and the time she took detail his family tree...But who's and from where? An English Prince? Or could she bring back the international community that she touched on in book 4 by way of the Prince? A Prince from Turkey? Or an Arabian Prince? So many questions, only months left to find out! In general, I think of the Harry Potter series as two series: books 1,3,5,7 and books 2,4,6. For that reason, I find it possible, that the prince may be from another country.
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Helen Potterfan - Feb 22, 2005 8:45 pm (#2626 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
The scholastic web site has a poster for HBP which includes cover art from the previous 5 books. Also included in the purple area which matches the HBP title is a color picture of Dobby (or another house elf) and Nagini (or another snake). Since they're in color, I'm wondering if they'll be on the cover of 6, or if they're just color versions of previous pictures. The picture of Dobby looks familiar, but I'm not sure if I've seen it in the black and white. If it is from 6, I wonder what's in his hands? I'm not sure it is Dobby. Has scholastic done this for past books that anyone can remember?
If this is cover art, house elves may be an important part of the HBP plot line.
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The giant squid - Feb 22, 2005 9:00 pm (#2627 of 2923)
Accio HBP, the picture of Dobby is the chapter heading art from CoS Ch. 2 "Dobby's Warning". I don't recognise the snake art, though--it's neither a chapter heading pic of Nagini nor the pythin(?) from SS/PS.
--Mike
EDIT: The Dobby pic is also Steve Newton's avatar, which is probably why it looked so familiar.
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Steve Newton - Feb 23, 2005 7:06 am (#2628 of 2923)
Librarian
I have to confess that my son picked out my avatar. No idea where he got it. I do like it.
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Thomas Phifer - Feb 23, 2005 8:18 am (#2629 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Feb 23, 2005 7:19 am
Isnt Dumbledore's brother the one who works in Hogs Head behind the counter with the dirty rag? I have a vague memory of this. He's the weirdo right? Any speculation about him being significant in HBP?
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Albus Silente - Feb 23, 2005 8:22 am (#2630 of 2923)
thomas, go right to the aberforth dumbledore topic, you might find some information there;-)
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Helen Potterfan - Feb 23, 2005 9:08 am (#2631 of 2923)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Thanks giant squid and Steve, I knew the picture looked familiar!! It's still an interesting poster, but I guess not much help HBP clues. Steve, now you can have your avatar in color if you want!
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Steve Newton - Feb 23, 2005 9:45 am (#2632 of 2923)
Librarian
Good idea. I'll take it up with the Avatar Committee (my son).
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Eponine - Feb 26, 2005 10:55 am (#2633 of 2923)
Mugglenet just posted a report from a school librarian who received a catalogue for pre-orders that had this to say about HBP.
"With something huge revealed about Lily Potter, the truth about why Dumbledore trusts Snape, and a little romance for Harry, this promises to be one of his best years at Hogwarts yet."
Interesting. I'd love to know why DD trusts Snape.
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Aurora Gubbins - Feb 26, 2005 11:09 am (#2634 of 2923)
This makes me think the opening chapter will be a flashback to James and Lily, perhaps early in their relationship
Aurora xx
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TGF - Feb 26, 2005 12:48 pm (#2635 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I think the huge thing about Lily Potter is the interesting part. We really don't know anything about her, besides what was seen in Snape's Penseive scene.
It's strange that we've seen James' old friends, but none of Lily's... What happened to HER friends anyway? Hmmm... then again, maybe they all ended up on the wrong end of an AK. That's perfectly possible.
I imagine that Snape gave something up/sacrificed something important to him by joining Dumbledore. What that was though is just impossible to decipher.
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mike miller - Feb 26, 2005 1:01 pm (#2636 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I've been partial to the flashback first chapter since JKR told us it's something she's worked on for years and just didn't fit before. More information about Lily could be contrasted with info about Tom Riddle's mother to help explain why Tom chose the "dark path".
JKR has said that we will learn more about Tom's birth, mother and family in the final books. We need to understand a character's motivation to make his/her actions beleivable. I have often wondered how Tom Riddle learned about his family history and link back to Salazar Slytherin. I have always assumed that Tom's mother died very shortly after his birth and would not have been able to provide much history.
Tom and Harry both grew up in less than desirable circumstances until they received their Hogwarts letters. Their paths seem to diverge very quickly once they are introduced to the Wizard World. Why?
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GryffEndora - Feb 26, 2005 1:49 pm (#2637 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I have always assumed that Tom's mother died very shortly after his birth and would not have been able to provide much history.
I seem to recall Tom telling Harry his mother died during childbirth, I think in CoS, can someone help me out, I don't have my books with me. I agree, mike miller, how does an orphan learn about his family history? Maybe she left him the family Bible or something similar? Good question.
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TGF - Feb 26, 2005 2:17 pm (#2638 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
As long as we're talking about Tom... When Tom was around 12 or 13 years old (1940), in the summer before his third year, Tom Riddle would have been in London as it was being bombed by the Luftwaffe. Two years later he was opening the Chamber and running his own personal mini-holocaust in Hogwarts.
There's an essay on this in the Lexicon (which I wrote...) but I think it's mod policy that no essays are supposed to be posted/linked to (or is that only for non-Lexicon essays perhaps?). Still, there's a rather pronounced connection between WWII and the early Riddle.
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Liz Mann - Feb 26, 2005 2:49 pm (#2639 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Mugglenet is saying that in HBP we find out the truth about why Dumbledore trusts Snape and also something huge about Lily.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 26, 2005 3:29 pm (#2640 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
:quivers uncontrollably:
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MoonRider - Feb 26, 2005 3:53 pm (#2641 of 2923)
GryffEndora: Tom's mother lived just long enough to name him:
"'My mother died just after I was born, sir. They told me at the orphanage she lived just long enough to name me----Tom after my father, Marvolo after my grandfather.'"
All: maybe that's how he found-out other information about his family----maybe it was in his file when he was taken there? Who took him to the orphanage-----his father had run-off, and his mother was dead. Maybe whomever took him told the orphanage "stuff" about his family.....
Hey----do you think it was DD that took him to the orphanage? That idea just popped in my mind! That would be something else that he had in common with Harry! OMG, I just thought of that-----what do you guys think? OMG, it's really bubbling-up inside me, now-----there's all kinds of things that I'm thinking of, that could point in that direction!
Anxiously awaiting responses.....
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Liz Mann - Feb 26, 2005 4:01 pm (#2642 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
That would partly explain why he hates Dumbledore so much, because Dumbledore handed him over to a place that he clearly hated!
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mike miller - Feb 26, 2005 6:57 pm (#2643 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I tend to lean away from the Dumbledore angle in Tom's situation. I don't think everything has to come back around to DD. It's possible that Tom's mother left the boy's father's name with the Muggle authorities. I seem to remember Tom saying something about his father not wanting him; so that's why he ended up at the orphanage.
I wonder if Tom hated both his parents; his father for disowning him and his mother for not returning to the Wizard World before he was born. Why Tom's mother did not return to her family is a question that needs answering. At least, she could have gone to St. Mungo's. It is possible that her family disowned her for getting involved with a Muggle, more pure blood mania.
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Star Crossed - Feb 26, 2005 7:24 pm (#2644 of 2923)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't think Dumbledore got involved in Tom's placing. At the time, he was just a deputy headmaster (I believe. He was at least a professor.) and Tom was just some boy lacking a family. But Harry was the hero of the Wizarding World with people all over wanting him dead. Don't really compare.
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Gina R Snape - Feb 26, 2005 7:51 pm (#2645 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I don't think DD got involved either. Asie from what Star Crossed said (and with which I agree), I don't think DD would have placed an orphaned wizard child in the hands of a muggle orphanage. Harry was placed with muggles because they were his only living relatives. Also, I think it was said that Tom Riddle senior had the child placed. Or, was it that his mother died during delivery in a muggle hospital?
Something like that... Sorry, that was no help at all!
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vball man - Feb 27, 2005 12:02 am (#2646 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
MoonRider - Hey----do you think it was DD that took him to the orphanage? That idea just popped in my mind! That would be something else that he had in common with Harry! OMG, I just thought of that-----what do you guys think? OMG, it's really bubbling-up inside me, now-----there's all kinds of things that I'm thinking of, that could point in that direction!
- Yes, I do think that Dumbledore put him there. I've posted that idea before in the Recurring Boy who Lived thread.
Star Crossed - I don't think Dumbledore got involved in Tom's placing. At the time, he was just a deputy headmaster (I believe. He was at least a professor.) and Tom was just some boy lacking a family. But Harry was the hero of the Wizarding World with people all over wanting him dead. Don't really compare.
- Well, Star Crossed, you make a good point. That is, why should a deputy headmaster be the one to deal with the newborn named Tom Riddle? But really, it seems to me that some would wonder the same about Harry. Dumbledore was headmaster by then - but would that give him the right to "see to the boy's future"?
Also, we can't rule out any contact between Mrs. Riddle and Dumbledore. She married a muggle, after all, perhaps she knew and trusted Dumbledore just as James and Lily did.
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The Artful Dodger - Feb 27, 2005 2:00 am (#2647 of 2923)
Well, Dumbledore wasn't only Hogwarts headmaster, but also Head of the Order of the Phoenix, and Voldemort's archenemy, and apparently a good friend of Lily and James. That certainly explains (for me at least) why Dumbledore was the one to care for Harry in the future.
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Eponine - Feb 27, 2005 7:50 am (#2648 of 2923)
Okay, I probably posted that blurb about HBP too soon, since The Leaky Cauldron has just reported that it's not genuine.
--Goes off to iron her hands.--
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GryffEndora - Feb 27, 2005 8:35 am (#2649 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
MoonRider, thanks for the quote. Why do I need a pensive to remember things correctly when I have the Lexicon?
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MoonRider - Feb 27, 2005 9:28 am (#2650 of 2923)
GryffEndora: You're quite welcome!
I had a notion last night-----and vballman just seemed to reinforce it.....
I'm thinking maybe DD "took care of" Tom, so-to-speak, when he was a baby (took him to the orphanage) because maybe he can see into the future (I read something, somewhere about DD having all those stars on his robes). I'm thinking that it's possible that he "could tell" that Tom was going to be a powerful wizard-----maybe not that he was going to be wicked, because that was his choice-----just like when Harry chose not to be sorted into Slytherin.....
anyway, I'm thinking that DD knew of Tom's greatness-----remember he said, something like, that he was probably the most brilliant wizard to ever attend Hogwarts? Well, wouldn't it make sense that he would want to, like, "preserve"/rescue/whatever a wizard that was going to be so great? DD's so mild-mannered now, but maybe he used to have a "hero complex" too?
Also, if he could foresee this, he probably could foresee that there was going to be these wars-----even though he couldn't "see" who was/how there were to be involved or whatever-----if it's true that Voldemort chose to be in Slytherin----and he wanted to have this great wizard (Tom) on the "good side".
Thanks, bushels, you guys!
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2651 to 2700)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:17 am
vball man - Feb 27, 2005 12:07 pm (#2651 of 2923)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
The Artful Dodger - Well, Dumbledore wasn't only Hogwarts headmaster, but also Head of the Order of the Phoenix, and Voldemort's archenemy, and apparently a good friend of Lily and James. That certainly explains (for me at least) why Dumbledore was the one to care for Harry in the future.
Right - that's what I was trying to say. Dumbledore has a lot more reason for being the one to see to Harry's future than just being headmaster. (James gave Dumbledore his cloak before he died.) But I was also trying to say that their may have been a similar relationship with Mrs. Riddle. Mrs. Riddle married a muggle - this makes her a natural enemy of dark wizards and a natural friend of Dumbledore. She may have also worked with Dumbledore in the Grindelwald resistance.
Hey, Moonrider, when you talk about Dumbledore seeing that Tom would be great, but not seeing that he would be evil, that makes sense to me. I see a lot of what Dumbledore does in the HP series to be testing Harry to see if Harry will be good or bad.
- Sorting Hat - will it put him in Gryffindor or in Slytherin? - Mirror of Erised - will he desire good things like family, or will he see himself as a super powerful wizard?
- Mirror again - will Harry desire the stone - but not desire the power, wealth, and "immortality" that it can bring?
- Comparison with Tom - will Harry be proud of his likeness to Tom, or ashamed of it?
- There were more, but I can't remember them now.
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 6, 2005 7:44 pm (#2652 of 2923)
I know this a late response but I dont get to spend as much time on Lexicon as I would like.In response to TBE's post #2584.I think you may be right about Dumbledore being the HBP."Prince" could just mean an outstanding man which certainly describes Dumbledore or it could pertain to royalty.Something caught my eye while re-reading OoP.DD's full name is Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore.Most people have no more than 2 given names Royals however,have several.DD is at least 150 years old and we know very little about his background.He could very well be the son of a king.If the word "prince" is indeed used to indicate royalty I would think alot of the characters we've met so far could be ruled out.So...Imo I think it very well may be Dumbledore if not him my second guess would be the "lion" man.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 7, 2005 4:49 am (#2653 of 2923)
Madame Pomfrey: I think it must be the lion man too. As for many first names, there are quite a lot of Brits with too many names. A neighbour has three grandchildren all with 4 first names each, and they aren't Royal - at least I don't think so!
Aurora xx
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 7, 2005 6:16 am (#2654 of 2923)
Thanks Aurora.I didn't realize that.I'm American and 2 names is pretty standard here.The other way to look at it I suppose is that JKR introduces us to something new with each book title SS,PoA,GoF etc.So..HBP probably is a new character.I have changed my mind so many times about HP related stuff.Ohh..Hurry up book 6!
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Prisoner of Rowling - Mar 7, 2005 9:47 am (#2655 of 2923)
I don't think that the Half Blood Prince is somebody completley unfamiliar, but he hasn't actually appeared in any books (apart from in spirit). I think the Half Blood Prince will refer to Godric Gryffindor. I don't believe 'Prince' will refer to actual royalty, i feel it will be relevant in the way that Dumbledore is seen as 'champion of commoners, mud-bloods and muggles'. Rather than be introduced to a brand new charachter (Sirius wasn't completley new in PoA), we will be a given a greater insight into the philosophy and perhaps bloodline of Gryffindor. JKR has said that books 6 & 7 will provide more answers than questions.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 7, 2005 2:05 pm (#2656 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
JKR has said that books 6 & 7 will provide more answers than questions.
Ahh...but are they going to be the answers to our questions?
Lizzy
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pottermom34 - Mar 7, 2005 10:34 pm (#2657 of 2923)
Good question Lizzy, and will the answers be what we expect or something totally unmentioned by any of our discussions?
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 1:23 am (#2658 of 2923)
Olivia
And will the answers create more questions? somehow me thinks they will!!
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Eponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:01 am (#2659 of 2923)
TLC has an announcement that Katie Couric is going to reveal the cover of HBP on the Today show this morning.
--sits anxiously in front of the TV--
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 5:38 am (#2660 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
For anyone who missed the first go round, TLC announced that the cover will be shown again at 9 a.m. (I'm assuming that this is East Coast Time) on the Today show.
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Leonean1 - Mar 8, 2005 5:40 am (#2661 of 2923)
I just saw the cover! The primary colors are green and black. Harry and Dumbledoor and peering into a stone object (a Pensieve?), and I believe their wands are pulled. The words "Half Blood Prince" appear to be written in Harry's handwriting.
Yippiee!
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 5:52 am (#2662 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:38 pm
YEA! I saw it TOO! I guess we still can't assume that it's Dumbledore who's the HBP, though.....
but, every other cover has had the topic of the book on the cover!
The only thing that bothers me about DD being the HBP is, then, wouldn't Aberforth also be a Prince? Maybe it's not actually a "Royal" thing, per se-----maybe it's just, like, a nickname, or something, because DD is so accepting of everybody.
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Eponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:59 am (#2663 of 2923)
The adult version of the British edition is interesting. It has what might be considered a spoiler, so I'll post this in invisible ink. So don't highlight this if you don't want to know anything.
There is a tattered book on the cover that says "Advanced Potion Making", so it might be reasonable to assume that Harry makes it into NEWT level potions. Interesting.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 6:00 am (#2664 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
The Scholastic site now has a small picture of the cover.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 6:36 am (#2665 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:37 pm
Also, I found this:
"The edition will include a 32-page insert on special paper at the end of the book featuring near scale reproductions of Mary GrandPré's interior art, as well as a never-before-seen piece of full-color-art for the frontispiece."
(Frontispiece [New World Dictionary]: "First page or title page of a book". )
Might that mean that the book (American Edition) has 32 chapters?
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Cat 7 of 9 - Mar 8, 2005 6:40 am (#2666 of 2923)
Guard of the big squishy chair by the fire.
Eponine, I like the way you think and I agree with you.
Does anyone know if the U.S. and the U.K. books have the same amount of chapters?
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 6:48 am (#2667 of 2923)
Olivia
I think the U.S and U.K have the same amount of chapters but different page amounts due to being written in different fonts.
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veraco - Mar 8, 2005 6:49 am (#2668 of 2923)
The children version of the British edition remind me of the battle between Harry and Voldy at the end of GoF, don't ask me why but it does.
And when I see the American edition... well I got the feeling it's Harry's memories they are looking at... maybe Harry's memories of what happen the day Voldy murdered his parents?
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 6:55 am (#2669 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:36 pm
veraco: "... maybe Harry's memories of what happen the day Voldy murdered his parents?"
Ooooh----I LOVE that idea! Yeah-----Yeah-----that would be EXCELLENT!
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 8, 2005 7:03 am (#2670 of 2923)
Hi,
There was also an aura of light emanating from the container that was illuminating the faces of DD and HP.
The shape of the container was also interesting. It was conical with the large end towards the top. It appeared to be one object, rather than a bowl sitting atop a conical table, for instance. So, at least to me, it did not appear to be my image of the penseive. I think of the pensieve as being bowl-shaped.
Hmmm!
Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 7:09 am (#2671 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Moonrider: YEA! I saw it TOO! I guess we still can't assume that it's Dumbledore who's the HBP, though..... but, every other cover has had the topic of the book on the cover!
But couldn't the HBP be someone in the Pensieve-thing? That would be "on the cover" without showing a face. Or maybe it refers to the column itself. Or maybe he/it is on the backcover as the Order members were on the back cover of OotP....
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septentrion - Mar 8, 2005 7:10 am (#2672 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Joanne, that's what I think, I don't think it's the Pensieve too.
My, don't you think those cover arts are gorgeous ?
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pottermom34 - Mar 8, 2005 7:14 am (#2673 of 2923)
Well we've been wondering how Dumbledore knows about things or finds out about things, maybe the thing they're looking in is somekind of "looking glass" showing things that are going on or like what Voldy might be up to maybe it's like a spy glass or something sort of crystal ballish
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 7:22 am (#2674 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I just watched the Al Roker interview of Arthur Levine of Scholastic.
I almost wondered if Gina had briefly possessed Al's body during the interview, because Al was very interested in Snape! Al asked Levine several times if Snape is the HBP.
Levine wouldn't answer, naturally, but he did say there was a lot of "heart" in the book.....
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 7:27 am (#2675 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Catherine: he did say there was a lot of "heart" in the book.....
Well, it looks like we might find out what the 'heart of it all' just might be in the next one, doesn't it.
As for the stone basin not looking like the pensieve, I think we should keep in mind that the cover is GrandPre's rendition of what she reads, not something that should be taken as completely "official". For instance, she always protrays Harry's scar in the middle of his forehead, but when Columbus went to create Harry for the first movie, JKR told him to put the scar over the right eye....
GrandPre's covers are the ultimate fanart, just as the movies could be considered the ultimate fanfiction. They're all just someone else's view of the books.
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Julie Aronson - Mar 8, 2005 7:29 am (#2676 of 2923)
The adult cover art from Bloomsbury gives fuel to a theory I have about Harry and Snape joining together (as much as they can) to defeat Voldemort. I will await direction from a mod. about where to post this, since the theory will now include spoiler info...
Julie
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septentrion - Mar 8, 2005 7:44 am (#2677 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
DD and Harry are together on two cover arts upon three, that leads me to think they're going to be a lot closer in HBP. And that fight with fire on the Bloomsbury cover art drives me nut. What, besides a dragon, can produce such flames ? I mean in the Wizarding World of course.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 7:46 am (#2678 of 2923)
Let it snow!
A phoenix?
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veraco - Mar 8, 2005 7:58 am (#2679 of 2923)
Septentrion: What, besides a dragon, can produce such flames? I mean in the Wizarding World of course.
Fawkes? a very powerful spell?
Well I can't stop thinking of Fawkes and the "cage" that surrounded Harry and Voldy in the Battle at the end of Gof, it was the frist thing that pop up into my head when I saw the British cover.
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Fawkes Forever - Mar 8, 2005 8:24 am (#2680 of 2923)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
So so busy at work, but had to call in when I spotted this
Getting very excited now ... In the Kids UK book cover, there seems to be bright light or fire coming out of Dumbledores wand and gosh, hasn't little Harry grown up!
Article on BBC Newsround:
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Link to all three book covers here
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 8, 2005 8:52 am (#2681 of 2923)
Love the kids edition art. Harry and Dumbledore standing together wand to wand in combat. Went to the Bloomsbury site to have a look. I also think the adult version is the best so far. Now when will we get a teaser of the words to keep us hungry for more?
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Liz Mann - Mar 8, 2005 9:05 am (#2682 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I LOVE the new British children's cover! It looks the best so far!
Dumbledore and Harry surrounded by what looks like a tidal wave of fire! What is that all about?
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 9:18 am (#2683 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
***jumping up and down with excitement and yelling "Where's the back cover??? Where's the back cover???****
Wonder if the "Today" interview will be transcribed somewhere?
I think the US version shows them looking into a pensieve, and I like veraco's idea of it being Harry's memories of the night his parents died. The greenish tint reminds me of the green light that (supposedly?) Voldemort's AK produced. I don't see it as a conical shape -- it looks to me like a shallow bowl with a flat bottom sitting on a pedestal of some sort. (In GoF it's described as "..a shallow stone basin...with odd carvings around the edge: runes and symbols that Harry did not recognize...)
Julie Aronson, can't wait to hear your theory! I subscribe to your Snape/Harry idea too!
Can anyone read the author's name of the Potions book on the UK adult cover? My screen is too small....
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popkin - Mar 8, 2005 9:23 am (#2684 of 2923)
mother
I read it on the Leaky Cauldron site: Libatious Borage (not sure of the spelling, though).
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 9:27 am (#2685 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Thanks, popkin! Libatious -- libation -- potion -- clever!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 8, 2005 9:31 am (#2686 of 2923)
I have just recieved this email alert from Bloomsbury re the new covers.
Bloomsbury Publishing Plc is delighted to unveil the cover designs for Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince by J.K.Rowling, to be published on 16th July 2005. The cover illustration for the children?s edition is by Jason Cockcroft, who provided the cover image for Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, in addition to illustrating many other children?s books including Daddy?s Lullaby and Billywise (both published by Bloomsbury). The cover design for the adult edition is from a photograph by Michael Wildsmith.
Click here to see view: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
These covers will be used throughout the world excluding the USA.
Scholastic will also release their cover today for the American edition of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince by the noted children's illustrator Mary GrandPrõQ
Bloomsbury Web Club [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It was recieved at about three o'clock in the afternoon here in the UK.
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GryffEndora - Mar 8, 2005 9:34 am (#2687 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
My thoughts about the UK cover and the trail of flames from DD's wand come from the battle in the DoM. At one point DD wraps LV in something like a rope of flames, (I don't have the book to check for exact wording), but I hope it means DD will be training Harry in the next book.
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Liz Mann - Mar 8, 2005 9:40 am (#2688 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I was just looking at the British adult cover again, and has anyone noticed that the book is extremely old and tatty? The pages seem to be loose. It is certainly not a book that has just been bought. I don't think this is a sign that Harry is going to get into Potions. I think it's a sign that Ron will. The book looks second hand, and we all know Ron's books are second hand. I think it was quite certain that Harry was going to get into Potions before the cover came out. Bloomsbury don't really need to confirm that. Ron on the other hand...
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 9:41 am (#2689 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 8:42 am
One thing is fairly certain, the bowl is not Dumbledore's pensieve. We already have the artist's rendition of it, twice as a matter of fact in two different books. Those two depictions are very similar. The bowl on the new cover (other than being a bowl) bears little resemblance to her prior art.
Of course it could be a different pensieve, but that begs the question: Would Mary GrandPre feature something already used in two other books as the focal point of the new cover? I doubt it, but don't hold me to it. :-)
The new bowl almost looks like it is part of the little column it rests on.
I truly think this is the best of Grand-Pre's covers. It ranks ahead of PoA, the second best in my opinion. I am not just saying that because it is the new book. I remember not being that impressed with either GoF or OoP. They did little for me. OoP's back cover actually was more interesting than the front, in my opinion.
This cover is different. It excites me to want to delve right into the book. Whatever the bowl is, there is little doubt that there is some serious magic going on.
July 16th can't come too fast. :-)
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Diagon Nilly - Mar 8, 2005 9:45 am (#2690 of 2923)
Maybe it's Snape's book. I'd imagine some of the books in his collection are quite worn from use.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 9:46 am (#2691 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:35 pm
I'm thinking the US Edition is of the Pensieve sitting on a pillar. There seems to be a bit of a difference in color between it and what it's sitting on.
S.E. Jones: I like your idea about the HBP being what they see in the Pensieve.
Also, Al Roker was wondering if Snape would be killed-----and, of course, Mr. Levine didn't answer that either! LOL Mr. Levine said that he would use the word "intense" to describe this book----then, he also added "....but there are alot of, like, lighter moments, too".
I can't decide what would cause all that fire (UK Children's Edition)----but, to me, it just means "war"-----in other words, many things happening, concurrently, that makes that kind of fire.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 9:47 am (#2692 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Hmmmmm... funny how we have different takes on the same pictures, Marcus! I thought the cover art does bear a close resemblance to GrandPre's previous depictions of the pensieve. To me, it's just that it's sitting on a pedestal here, and we're sort of viewing it from underneath.
Oh well! I do agree that it's one of the most exciting covers yet!
Edit: Moonrider, maybe it's sitting on the Pillar of Storge!
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 9:49 am (#2693 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 8:52 am
Okay, assuming it IS a pensieve (the runes around the edge suggests it might be) but not Dumbledore's, then whose? And whose thoughts does it contain?
Dumbledore is right there. Why? Is Harry preparing to "dive in" and is Dumbledore telling him that he will "cover for him"?
EDIT: "Pillar of Storge" LOL! A very good one.
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Julie Aronson - Mar 8, 2005 9:55 am (#2694 of 2923)
Madam Pince,
Since your e-mail is private and I have not yet been given "where to post" info, e-mail me if you want and we'll talk out my theory!
Julie
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 9:57 am (#2695 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:35 pm
Madam Pince: "Moonrider, maybe it's sitting on the Pillar of Storge!"
LOL----TOO FUNNY----LOL!
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 9:58 am (#2696 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 9:02 am
I thought the cover art does bear a close resemblance to GrandPre's previous depictions of the pensieve.
I am looking at all three right now.
The pictures of the one we know is Dumbledore's shows it to be parabolic with the rim with the runes facing up.
The new bowl flares out like a trumpet with the rim of runes facing outward, even a little downward. It is also pretty beat up, whereas Dumbledore's is in excellent condition. This is not to say Dumbledore's pensieve might not get roughed up, but the underlying bowls do not appear to be the same.
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Julie Aronson - Mar 8, 2005 9:59 am (#2697 of 2923)
Maybe it's Voldemort's pensieve...
Julie
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Elanor - Mar 8, 2005 9:59 am (#2698 of 2923)
MoonRider, the same thought came to me at once when I saw the fire on the UK children edition: it evoked me a world at war, with Harry and Dumbledore side by side in the turmoil. I love that!
My favourite one is the UK adult edition. I love your idea Diagon Nilly that it could be Snape's book! I always thought his potion master's skills will be needed in the battle before the end, maybe we will find that out in the HBP.
I can't wait! **stamping a foot saying "I-want-it-now-I-want-it-now-I want-it-now"** I feel better...
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 10:02 am (#2699 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I think it is a Pensieve. I quickly compared it to the illustration in OoP of "Snape's Worst Memory" and it looks the same to me. It just looks like it was placed on a column, or a pedestal.
I think its placement on the cover shows that Harry will be delving more into the past. We know that we are to learn more about Voldemort, so that is a possibiility.
I guess what intrigues me is the way change of Oop and HBP in the cover art from highly colored images to a more monochromatic scheme. It made sense for OoP--the "nightmare of a year" for the cover art to be in the ghostly blues, charcoals, and black. Now I'm wondering why the green and purple--will these colors prove significant? We already have so many associations with the color green in the HP series.
Also, the change in the last two covers in the title interests me. Why the change to the "scrawled" writing?
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 10:04 am (#2700 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Julie, Maybe it's Voldemort's pensieve...
I like that idea. Dumbledore and Harry have snuck into Voldemort's place and have found it.
Sounds thrilling to me.
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He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
The Artful Dodger - Well, Dumbledore wasn't only Hogwarts headmaster, but also Head of the Order of the Phoenix, and Voldemort's archenemy, and apparently a good friend of Lily and James. That certainly explains (for me at least) why Dumbledore was the one to care for Harry in the future.
Right - that's what I was trying to say. Dumbledore has a lot more reason for being the one to see to Harry's future than just being headmaster. (James gave Dumbledore his cloak before he died.) But I was also trying to say that their may have been a similar relationship with Mrs. Riddle. Mrs. Riddle married a muggle - this makes her a natural enemy of dark wizards and a natural friend of Dumbledore. She may have also worked with Dumbledore in the Grindelwald resistance.
Hey, Moonrider, when you talk about Dumbledore seeing that Tom would be great, but not seeing that he would be evil, that makes sense to me. I see a lot of what Dumbledore does in the HP series to be testing Harry to see if Harry will be good or bad.
- Sorting Hat - will it put him in Gryffindor or in Slytherin? - Mirror of Erised - will he desire good things like family, or will he see himself as a super powerful wizard?
- Mirror again - will Harry desire the stone - but not desire the power, wealth, and "immortality" that it can bring?
- Comparison with Tom - will Harry be proud of his likeness to Tom, or ashamed of it?
- There were more, but I can't remember them now.
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 6, 2005 7:44 pm (#2652 of 2923)
I know this a late response but I dont get to spend as much time on Lexicon as I would like.In response to TBE's post #2584.I think you may be right about Dumbledore being the HBP."Prince" could just mean an outstanding man which certainly describes Dumbledore or it could pertain to royalty.Something caught my eye while re-reading OoP.DD's full name is Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore.Most people have no more than 2 given names Royals however,have several.DD is at least 150 years old and we know very little about his background.He could very well be the son of a king.If the word "prince" is indeed used to indicate royalty I would think alot of the characters we've met so far could be ruled out.So...Imo I think it very well may be Dumbledore if not him my second guess would be the "lion" man.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 7, 2005 4:49 am (#2653 of 2923)
Madame Pomfrey: I think it must be the lion man too. As for many first names, there are quite a lot of Brits with too many names. A neighbour has three grandchildren all with 4 first names each, and they aren't Royal - at least I don't think so!
Aurora xx
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 7, 2005 6:16 am (#2654 of 2923)
Thanks Aurora.I didn't realize that.I'm American and 2 names is pretty standard here.The other way to look at it I suppose is that JKR introduces us to something new with each book title SS,PoA,GoF etc.So..HBP probably is a new character.I have changed my mind so many times about HP related stuff.Ohh..Hurry up book 6!
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Prisoner of Rowling - Mar 7, 2005 9:47 am (#2655 of 2923)
I don't think that the Half Blood Prince is somebody completley unfamiliar, but he hasn't actually appeared in any books (apart from in spirit). I think the Half Blood Prince will refer to Godric Gryffindor. I don't believe 'Prince' will refer to actual royalty, i feel it will be relevant in the way that Dumbledore is seen as 'champion of commoners, mud-bloods and muggles'. Rather than be introduced to a brand new charachter (Sirius wasn't completley new in PoA), we will be a given a greater insight into the philosophy and perhaps bloodline of Gryffindor. JKR has said that books 6 & 7 will provide more answers than questions.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 7, 2005 2:05 pm (#2656 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
JKR has said that books 6 & 7 will provide more answers than questions.
Ahh...but are they going to be the answers to our questions?
Lizzy
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pottermom34 - Mar 7, 2005 10:34 pm (#2657 of 2923)
Good question Lizzy, and will the answers be what we expect or something totally unmentioned by any of our discussions?
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 1:23 am (#2658 of 2923)
Olivia
And will the answers create more questions? somehow me thinks they will!!
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Eponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:01 am (#2659 of 2923)
TLC has an announcement that Katie Couric is going to reveal the cover of HBP on the Today show this morning.
--sits anxiously in front of the TV--
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 5:38 am (#2660 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
For anyone who missed the first go round, TLC announced that the cover will be shown again at 9 a.m. (I'm assuming that this is East Coast Time) on the Today show.
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Leonean1 - Mar 8, 2005 5:40 am (#2661 of 2923)
I just saw the cover! The primary colors are green and black. Harry and Dumbledoor and peering into a stone object (a Pensieve?), and I believe their wands are pulled. The words "Half Blood Prince" appear to be written in Harry's handwriting.
Yippiee!
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 5:52 am (#2662 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:38 pm
YEA! I saw it TOO! I guess we still can't assume that it's Dumbledore who's the HBP, though.....
but, every other cover has had the topic of the book on the cover!
The only thing that bothers me about DD being the HBP is, then, wouldn't Aberforth also be a Prince? Maybe it's not actually a "Royal" thing, per se-----maybe it's just, like, a nickname, or something, because DD is so accepting of everybody.
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Eponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:59 am (#2663 of 2923)
The adult version of the British edition is interesting. It has what might be considered a spoiler, so I'll post this in invisible ink. So don't highlight this if you don't want to know anything.
There is a tattered book on the cover that says "Advanced Potion Making", so it might be reasonable to assume that Harry makes it into NEWT level potions. Interesting.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 6:00 am (#2664 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
The Scholastic site now has a small picture of the cover.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 6:36 am (#2665 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:37 pm
Also, I found this:
"The edition will include a 32-page insert on special paper at the end of the book featuring near scale reproductions of Mary GrandPré's interior art, as well as a never-before-seen piece of full-color-art for the frontispiece."
(Frontispiece [New World Dictionary]: "First page or title page of a book". )
Might that mean that the book (American Edition) has 32 chapters?
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Cat 7 of 9 - Mar 8, 2005 6:40 am (#2666 of 2923)
Guard of the big squishy chair by the fire.
Eponine, I like the way you think and I agree with you.
Does anyone know if the U.S. and the U.K. books have the same amount of chapters?
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 6:48 am (#2667 of 2923)
Olivia
I think the U.S and U.K have the same amount of chapters but different page amounts due to being written in different fonts.
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veraco - Mar 8, 2005 6:49 am (#2668 of 2923)
The children version of the British edition remind me of the battle between Harry and Voldy at the end of GoF, don't ask me why but it does.
And when I see the American edition... well I got the feeling it's Harry's memories they are looking at... maybe Harry's memories of what happen the day Voldy murdered his parents?
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 6:55 am (#2669 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:36 pm
veraco: "... maybe Harry's memories of what happen the day Voldy murdered his parents?"
Ooooh----I LOVE that idea! Yeah-----Yeah-----that would be EXCELLENT!
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 8, 2005 7:03 am (#2670 of 2923)
Hi,
There was also an aura of light emanating from the container that was illuminating the faces of DD and HP.
The shape of the container was also interesting. It was conical with the large end towards the top. It appeared to be one object, rather than a bowl sitting atop a conical table, for instance. So, at least to me, it did not appear to be my image of the penseive. I think of the pensieve as being bowl-shaped.
Hmmm!
Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 7:09 am (#2671 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Moonrider: YEA! I saw it TOO! I guess we still can't assume that it's Dumbledore who's the HBP, though..... but, every other cover has had the topic of the book on the cover!
But couldn't the HBP be someone in the Pensieve-thing? That would be "on the cover" without showing a face. Or maybe it refers to the column itself. Or maybe he/it is on the backcover as the Order members were on the back cover of OotP....
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septentrion - Mar 8, 2005 7:10 am (#2672 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Joanne, that's what I think, I don't think it's the Pensieve too.
My, don't you think those cover arts are gorgeous ?
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pottermom34 - Mar 8, 2005 7:14 am (#2673 of 2923)
Well we've been wondering how Dumbledore knows about things or finds out about things, maybe the thing they're looking in is somekind of "looking glass" showing things that are going on or like what Voldy might be up to maybe it's like a spy glass or something sort of crystal ballish
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 7:22 am (#2674 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I just watched the Al Roker interview of Arthur Levine of Scholastic.
I almost wondered if Gina had briefly possessed Al's body during the interview, because Al was very interested in Snape! Al asked Levine several times if Snape is the HBP.
Levine wouldn't answer, naturally, but he did say there was a lot of "heart" in the book.....
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 7:27 am (#2675 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Catherine: he did say there was a lot of "heart" in the book.....
Well, it looks like we might find out what the 'heart of it all' just might be in the next one, doesn't it.
As for the stone basin not looking like the pensieve, I think we should keep in mind that the cover is GrandPre's rendition of what she reads, not something that should be taken as completely "official". For instance, she always protrays Harry's scar in the middle of his forehead, but when Columbus went to create Harry for the first movie, JKR told him to put the scar over the right eye....
GrandPre's covers are the ultimate fanart, just as the movies could be considered the ultimate fanfiction. They're all just someone else's view of the books.
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Julie Aronson - Mar 8, 2005 7:29 am (#2676 of 2923)
The adult cover art from Bloomsbury gives fuel to a theory I have about Harry and Snape joining together (as much as they can) to defeat Voldemort. I will await direction from a mod. about where to post this, since the theory will now include spoiler info...
Julie
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septentrion - Mar 8, 2005 7:44 am (#2677 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
DD and Harry are together on two cover arts upon three, that leads me to think they're going to be a lot closer in HBP. And that fight with fire on the Bloomsbury cover art drives me nut. What, besides a dragon, can produce such flames ? I mean in the Wizarding World of course.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 7:46 am (#2678 of 2923)
Let it snow!
A phoenix?
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veraco - Mar 8, 2005 7:58 am (#2679 of 2923)
Septentrion: What, besides a dragon, can produce such flames? I mean in the Wizarding World of course.
Fawkes? a very powerful spell?
Well I can't stop thinking of Fawkes and the "cage" that surrounded Harry and Voldy in the Battle at the end of Gof, it was the frist thing that pop up into my head when I saw the British cover.
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Fawkes Forever - Mar 8, 2005 8:24 am (#2680 of 2923)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
So so busy at work, but had to call in when I spotted this
Getting very excited now ... In the Kids UK book cover, there seems to be bright light or fire coming out of Dumbledores wand and gosh, hasn't little Harry grown up!
Article on BBC Newsround:
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Link to all three book covers here
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 8, 2005 8:52 am (#2681 of 2923)
Love the kids edition art. Harry and Dumbledore standing together wand to wand in combat. Went to the Bloomsbury site to have a look. I also think the adult version is the best so far. Now when will we get a teaser of the words to keep us hungry for more?
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Liz Mann - Mar 8, 2005 9:05 am (#2682 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I LOVE the new British children's cover! It looks the best so far!
Dumbledore and Harry surrounded by what looks like a tidal wave of fire! What is that all about?
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 9:18 am (#2683 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
***jumping up and down with excitement and yelling "Where's the back cover??? Where's the back cover???****
Wonder if the "Today" interview will be transcribed somewhere?
I think the US version shows them looking into a pensieve, and I like veraco's idea of it being Harry's memories of the night his parents died. The greenish tint reminds me of the green light that (supposedly?) Voldemort's AK produced. I don't see it as a conical shape -- it looks to me like a shallow bowl with a flat bottom sitting on a pedestal of some sort. (In GoF it's described as "..a shallow stone basin...with odd carvings around the edge: runes and symbols that Harry did not recognize...)
Julie Aronson, can't wait to hear your theory! I subscribe to your Snape/Harry idea too!
Can anyone read the author's name of the Potions book on the UK adult cover? My screen is too small....
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popkin - Mar 8, 2005 9:23 am (#2684 of 2923)
mother
I read it on the Leaky Cauldron site: Libatious Borage (not sure of the spelling, though).
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 9:27 am (#2685 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Thanks, popkin! Libatious -- libation -- potion -- clever!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 8, 2005 9:31 am (#2686 of 2923)
I have just recieved this email alert from Bloomsbury re the new covers.
Bloomsbury Publishing Plc is delighted to unveil the cover designs for Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince by J.K.Rowling, to be published on 16th July 2005. The cover illustration for the children?s edition is by Jason Cockcroft, who provided the cover image for Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, in addition to illustrating many other children?s books including Daddy?s Lullaby and Billywise (both published by Bloomsbury). The cover design for the adult edition is from a photograph by Michael Wildsmith.
Click here to see view: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
These covers will be used throughout the world excluding the USA.
Scholastic will also release their cover today for the American edition of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince by the noted children's illustrator Mary GrandPrõQ
Bloomsbury Web Club [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
It was recieved at about three o'clock in the afternoon here in the UK.
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GryffEndora - Mar 8, 2005 9:34 am (#2687 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
My thoughts about the UK cover and the trail of flames from DD's wand come from the battle in the DoM. At one point DD wraps LV in something like a rope of flames, (I don't have the book to check for exact wording), but I hope it means DD will be training Harry in the next book.
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Liz Mann - Mar 8, 2005 9:40 am (#2688 of 2923)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I was just looking at the British adult cover again, and has anyone noticed that the book is extremely old and tatty? The pages seem to be loose. It is certainly not a book that has just been bought. I don't think this is a sign that Harry is going to get into Potions. I think it's a sign that Ron will. The book looks second hand, and we all know Ron's books are second hand. I think it was quite certain that Harry was going to get into Potions before the cover came out. Bloomsbury don't really need to confirm that. Ron on the other hand...
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 9:41 am (#2689 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 8:42 am
One thing is fairly certain, the bowl is not Dumbledore's pensieve. We already have the artist's rendition of it, twice as a matter of fact in two different books. Those two depictions are very similar. The bowl on the new cover (other than being a bowl) bears little resemblance to her prior art.
Of course it could be a different pensieve, but that begs the question: Would Mary GrandPre feature something already used in two other books as the focal point of the new cover? I doubt it, but don't hold me to it. :-)
The new bowl almost looks like it is part of the little column it rests on.
I truly think this is the best of Grand-Pre's covers. It ranks ahead of PoA, the second best in my opinion. I am not just saying that because it is the new book. I remember not being that impressed with either GoF or OoP. They did little for me. OoP's back cover actually was more interesting than the front, in my opinion.
This cover is different. It excites me to want to delve right into the book. Whatever the bowl is, there is little doubt that there is some serious magic going on.
July 16th can't come too fast. :-)
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Diagon Nilly - Mar 8, 2005 9:45 am (#2690 of 2923)
Maybe it's Snape's book. I'd imagine some of the books in his collection are quite worn from use.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 9:46 am (#2691 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:35 pm
I'm thinking the US Edition is of the Pensieve sitting on a pillar. There seems to be a bit of a difference in color between it and what it's sitting on.
S.E. Jones: I like your idea about the HBP being what they see in the Pensieve.
Also, Al Roker was wondering if Snape would be killed-----and, of course, Mr. Levine didn't answer that either! LOL Mr. Levine said that he would use the word "intense" to describe this book----then, he also added "....but there are alot of, like, lighter moments, too".
I can't decide what would cause all that fire (UK Children's Edition)----but, to me, it just means "war"-----in other words, many things happening, concurrently, that makes that kind of fire.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 9:47 am (#2692 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Hmmmmm... funny how we have different takes on the same pictures, Marcus! I thought the cover art does bear a close resemblance to GrandPre's previous depictions of the pensieve. To me, it's just that it's sitting on a pedestal here, and we're sort of viewing it from underneath.
Oh well! I do agree that it's one of the most exciting covers yet!
Edit: Moonrider, maybe it's sitting on the Pillar of Storge!
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 9:49 am (#2693 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 8:52 am
Okay, assuming it IS a pensieve (the runes around the edge suggests it might be) but not Dumbledore's, then whose? And whose thoughts does it contain?
Dumbledore is right there. Why? Is Harry preparing to "dive in" and is Dumbledore telling him that he will "cover for him"?
EDIT: "Pillar of Storge" LOL! A very good one.
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Julie Aronson - Mar 8, 2005 9:55 am (#2694 of 2923)
Madam Pince,
Since your e-mail is private and I have not yet been given "where to post" info, e-mail me if you want and we'll talk out my theory!
Julie
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 9:57 am (#2695 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:35 pm
Madam Pince: "Moonrider, maybe it's sitting on the Pillar of Storge!"
LOL----TOO FUNNY----LOL!
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 9:58 am (#2696 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 9:02 am
I thought the cover art does bear a close resemblance to GrandPre's previous depictions of the pensieve.
I am looking at all three right now.
The pictures of the one we know is Dumbledore's shows it to be parabolic with the rim with the runes facing up.
The new bowl flares out like a trumpet with the rim of runes facing outward, even a little downward. It is also pretty beat up, whereas Dumbledore's is in excellent condition. This is not to say Dumbledore's pensieve might not get roughed up, but the underlying bowls do not appear to be the same.
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Julie Aronson - Mar 8, 2005 9:59 am (#2697 of 2923)
Maybe it's Voldemort's pensieve...
Julie
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Elanor - Mar 8, 2005 9:59 am (#2698 of 2923)
MoonRider, the same thought came to me at once when I saw the fire on the UK children edition: it evoked me a world at war, with Harry and Dumbledore side by side in the turmoil. I love that!
My favourite one is the UK adult edition. I love your idea Diagon Nilly that it could be Snape's book! I always thought his potion master's skills will be needed in the battle before the end, maybe we will find that out in the HBP.
I can't wait! **stamping a foot saying "I-want-it-now-I-want-it-now-I want-it-now"** I feel better...
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 10:02 am (#2699 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I think it is a Pensieve. I quickly compared it to the illustration in OoP of "Snape's Worst Memory" and it looks the same to me. It just looks like it was placed on a column, or a pedestal.
I think its placement on the cover shows that Harry will be delving more into the past. We know that we are to learn more about Voldemort, so that is a possibiility.
I guess what intrigues me is the way change of Oop and HBP in the cover art from highly colored images to a more monochromatic scheme. It made sense for OoP--the "nightmare of a year" for the cover art to be in the ghostly blues, charcoals, and black. Now I'm wondering why the green and purple--will these colors prove significant? We already have so many associations with the color green in the HP series.
Also, the change in the last two covers in the title interests me. Why the change to the "scrawled" writing?
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 10:04 am (#2700 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Julie, Maybe it's Voldemort's pensieve...
I like that idea. Dumbledore and Harry have snuck into Voldemort's place and have found it.
Sounds thrilling to me.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2701 to 2750)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:19 am
Fawkes Forever - Mar 8, 2005 10:09 am (#2701 of 2923)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Just as things are getting interesting on the forum today... work takes over.... and I'm out on training the rest of the week, so no forum til next monday... BOOOO!
Anyways, I love the UK adult cover & like the idea that the book might have had one or two 'useful' previous owners... like the HBP perhaps You never know. Until next week... have fun with your theories...
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 8, 2005 10:11 am (#2702 of 2923)
Well, for my two cents, my first thought was Pensieve. I too like the idea that it is Voldemort's. I might throw in a couple other things. The Bloomsbury child cover version shows Harry and DD surrounded by what appears to be a ring of fire type deal. The adult cover has a copy of "advanced potion making." Just thought I'd throw those in the mix as long as we're speculating based on cover art.
I like that idea. Dumbledore and Harry have snuck into Voldemort's place and have found it.--Marcus
Sounds thrilling to me too Marcus. Alas, it makes me a little scared for Dumbledore though.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 10:11 am (#2703 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Ooh, good one FF.
We have seen in CoS how a previously owned book exerted a tremendous amount of influence....
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 10:12 am (#2704 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Madam Pince: "Moonrider, maybe it's sitting on the Pillar of Storge!"
After finishing my laughter, I got to thinking. You know, I wouldn't put it past Rowling. She is just enough of a character to do it.
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Fawkes Forever - Mar 8, 2005 10:17 am (#2705 of 2923)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Catherine... now I really do have to go (drags herself away from keyboard)... NOOOO don't wanna go on stupid training...
Oh Happy Birthday Loopy... nice pressie from Bloomsbury/Scolastic anyways
Giggling to oneself about the pillar of storge
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Ainsley Black - Mar 8, 2005 10:21 am (#2706 of 2923)
My first thought about the UK picture was the cage Harry and Voldie produced in GOF but looking at it bigger it looks more like the description of a spell acst by DD at Voldie in the MOM. PLus DD looks almost shocked, as does Harry. If they could just let us see that little bit above DD's wand then we could tell if the fire was coming from DD's wand or not. (Ruddy Editors editing of pictures! lol)
The US version makes me think that Harry and DD have stubled upon a pensive (who's is anybodys guess) but it looks like it could be showing a memory that involves and AK possibly.
The Adult edition looks great too! But, as mentioned before, i'm not so sure it's showing us that Harry makes it into NEWT Potions but more likely Ron, unless they don't buy thier own books in this subject and as in Trelawny's lessons they are given books in class.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 10:23 am (#2707 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:34 pm
Loopy Lupin: "Alas, it makes me a little scared for Dumbledore though."
I thought that exact same thing!
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Eliza - Mar 8, 2005 10:26 am (#2708 of 2923)
I think that the rings of flames may be a protective thing produced by Dumbledore, possibly even a unique way of traveling. Maybe that is why he can go places others can't. And look at the horror on Harry's face. I think that Dumbledore is trying to protect Harry here, possibly from the HBP. Maybe the HBP is on Voldy's side.
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Hollywand - Mar 8, 2005 10:26 am (#2709 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I love the tattered violet book on the UK version. I immediately thought of the Very Secret Diary. Hmmm. If Harry has a new Potions Master, yikes..... Borage, have to look up medicinal use of borage....
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GryffEndora - Mar 8, 2005 10:32 am (#2710 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Hollywand-I love the tattered violet book on the UK version. I immediately thought of the Very Secret Diary. Hmmm. If Harry has a new Potions Master, yikes..... Borage, have to look up medicinal use of borage....
Interesting Hollywand, but what if Borage isn't the new potions master but the new DADA Teacher? Flitwick, the current Charms Prof., used to teach DADA so why not a DADA expert on potions?
The intense greens and purples in the art work make me think about acid, poisons and potions. Perhaps potions and anti-venoms become important in DADA as well as the story. It would also be interesting to see Snape with a potions equal and how they would interact, especially if the new potions expert has the job that Snape covets.
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Elanor - Mar 8, 2005 10:43 am (#2711 of 2923)
Hollywand: "Borage, have to look up medicinal use of borage.... "
Great catch! I hadn't realized it was a plant's name! I've searched and it is used against depressive state, eczema and for purifying blood. In alchemy, it was connected to Jupiter (and Jupiter's colours are traditionally purple, as the covert of the book is! and green). Does it help?
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azi - Mar 8, 2005 10:48 am (#2712 of 2923)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I think the flames on the UK kids editions are from Dumbledore's wand, it appears they are issuing from it anyway. Dumbledore looks slightly insane on the cover (an understatment I feel). It seems to be a sort of desperate scenario, like the two are on the edge of being squished to a pulp. Harry is staring in horror and Dumbledore is doing his power-thing with the scaryness. Thats the only way I can describe it.
I don't think the US version shows the pensive, although I could be wrong. It's just not how I imagine it to look like in my mind. If it is, I will be happy as the pensive constitutes some of my favourite parts of the other books.
The UK adult version is indeed interesting. Perhaps the book is borrowed from the library, like the restricted section? Therefore, it could be extremely old and tatty. However, the names suggests to me it's just a run of the mill school textbook.
Sorry if I've repeated something, I just skimmed the posts.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 10:48 am (#2713 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
The source I consulted said that borage was put into the wine of ancient warriors to give them courage....
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Diagon Nilly - Mar 8, 2005 10:52 am (#2714 of 2923)
Hmmmm, so Snape gets DADA finally and replace him with a new potions master who happens to be the HBP.
Not likely, but hmmmm.
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So Sirius - Mar 8, 2005 10:56 am (#2715 of 2923)
They released the cover for the Half-Blood Prince and DD and Harry are on the cover. I'm feeling more and more that those who predicted the HBP to be Dumbledore, to be correct.
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mike miller - Mar 8, 2005 10:57 am (#2716 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Here's an idea. Assuming pensieves are extremely rare items, it's possible that there has always been one (the same one) at the disposal of the Headmaster. DD and Harry could be looking back at memories left by the HBP (Godric Gryffindor).
As far as the UK adult cover, I would not put it past Snape to select a very old book for advanced Potion making, one that is "out of print" making old tattered copies all that are available.
I have long held that there must be a reconciliation between Harry and Severus; hopefully "burying the hatchet" between Voldemort's red eyes. This would also get us into the "heart of the story" accepting people (and creatures) for who they are, complete with their faults, the sum total of their choices.
Just my 2 knuts worth....
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Ainsley Black - Mar 8, 2005 11:03 am (#2717 of 2923)
I've always pictured a pensive to look like a pesel and mortar, if you know what i mean. Quite small and rough cut stone.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 11:11 am (#2718 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Elanor: Borage...is used against depressive state, eczema and for purifying blood.
Purifying blood? Hmmmmm.... sounds very Slytherin...
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 11:28 am (#2719 of 2923)
Ainsley, I agree with you, I picture the Pensieve much differently, but that doesnt always mean anything. I picture Peeves very differently then the picture on JKR's website. Maybe the basin Harry and DD are looking into is something in the department of mysteries?
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 8, 2005 11:29 am (#2720 of 2923)
I didn't even think about NEWT's when I first saw the potions book on the adult cover. I believe I speculated in the past that Harry, at least, would surprise himself by getting the grade needed to move on to advanced potions with Snape. (I'm sure Hermione will be there too, but Ron may not have made the cut.) I'm now fairly convinced this will be part of HBP. The Harry/Snape tension is so great, it seems likely that Rowling would want to continue it and since Snape has such high standards to get into the class, it would follow that Harry made the grade.
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Miss Caramel - Mar 8, 2005 11:31 am (#2721 of 2923)
I have read a few things about the (possible) pensieve on the cover and how it may be memories from Voldemort or Godric Gryffindor or whoever... however, since you have to extract your own thoughts to put in the pensieve, in order for this thoery to work, the previous pensieve user would have had to put in the memory long ago and kept it there protected all these years. I think that may be reaching a bit. I like the theory (sorry, don't remember whose) that the pensieve is holding Harry's latent memories of the night his parents were killed. Ooohhhh! I'm just dying for that book! All this speculation is killing me!
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 11:48 am (#2722 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Marcus, fair points about the differences in appearance between the "HBP" bowl and GrandPre's previous versions of the pensieve. I guess I was just thinking that the differences were pretty slight, and that maybe she had simply adjusted her "vision" in order to make the cover art more interesting or artistic or something. But it certainly could be that it's a totally different object. It surely is beaten up and cracked, etc., which the books make no mention of up to this point, I don't think.
Both Harry and Dumbledore have expressions on their faces that would seem to indicate that they are seeing something shocking. At first I thought this meant it couldn't be a pensieve, because they wouldn't be seeing anything until they stuck their faces into the surface. But then I remembered that Dumbledore could pull images out of the pensieve (Bertha Jorkins, Snape discussing Karkaroff's Dark Mark) to observe them, but that when Harry puts his face into the surface, it's more like being "sucked" into the scene of the thought -- as if you're there while it's taking place, but under an Invisibility Cloak or something.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 11:55 am (#2723 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I log in upon waking up, look at this thread, see 64 new replies and think 'What the heck? 64? That discussion really must've picked up!" ... Guess I know why now.
I've always hated the American children covers, and this one is no exception. The Adult one seems to confirm that Harry got into Potion NEWTs, unless, of course, they just put a random magical expression on it, which I doubt.
But that British one... can we say... HELL YEAH!! That thing looks SWEET! The expression on Dumbledore's face in that one is just plain epic. Harry looks a tad scared, but damn, that thing is amazing. I cannot wait to hold this book in my hands...
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Amilia Smith - Mar 8, 2005 12:04 pm (#2724 of 2923)
GriffEndora: Flitwick, the current Charms Prof., used to teach DADA . . .
Sorry, but I missed that somewhere. When did Flitwick teach DADA? Also, I love your idea that the new DADA teacher is a potions expert in his own right.
As I haven't much imagination myself, I won't speculate on what any of the cover art means. Suffice it to say that there was some major bouncing up and down going on in my chair when I saw the Potions textbook. I am really enjoying everyone's theories. Keep up the good work! :-)
Mills.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 12:09 pm (#2725 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
TGF, do you mean you hate the British childrens' versions? The Americans just have the one version, I think -- there is no separate children's version like the UK one.
I just thought of something: Do the British versions have the artwork by Mary GrandPre at the start of each chapter? Or do they have different art, or no art at all, for the chapter title pages?
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LooneyLuna - Mar 8, 2005 12:16 pm (#2726 of 2923)
I know Flitwick supervised the DADA essay final for the Marauders and Snape (from Snape's Worst Memory, OotP). I'm not sure if that means he actually taught DADA.
I'm excited to see the cover art. I really like them. I think Harry will be taking Newt Potions and spending a lot of time with Dumbledore. YAY!
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Ihavebothbuttocks - Mar 8, 2005 12:17 pm (#2727 of 2923)
Mme. Pince, the UK editions have no chapter art.
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azi - Mar 8, 2005 12:17 pm (#2728 of 2923)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I think GriffEndora meant Flitwick used to be a duelling champion when he was younger.
I've been looking at the American cover again and am liking less and less. The expressions of Harry and Dumbledore don't really give anything away.
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 12:19 pm (#2729 of 2923)
Sorry if this question doesnt belong here, but what exactly is the difference between the UK children and adult versions?
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 12:20 pm (#2730 of 2923)
The British versions have no chapter art at all. Mary Grand Pre's work is strictly for the scholastic editions.
Personally, I would be surprised is Harry weren't in the advanced potions class. JKR likes to have some things continue from book to book, and Harry in Snape's class is a big one. Sha has also dropped lots of hints that he will be in the class.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 12:21 pm (#2731 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Yes, I do mean the British children's version.
No, British versions do not have the chapter art, which is another thing I am thankful for. I have an American OotP and found those pictures to be really irritating as I read it... especially the ones of Umbridge. Ich.
Anyhow... It figures that Harry would be closer to DD in this book, since DD will likely be teaching Harry Occulmency. The fact he'll have such a prominent role this time around also suggests that he might die... in a blaze of glory, if you will.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 12:22 pm (#2732 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:34 pm
Catherine: "The source I consulted said that borage was put into the wine of ancient warriors to give them courage.... "
This would go along with what Madam Pince thought-----as well as I-----that his first name may have been derived from "libation".
With that in mind, I'm thinking that Voldy, maybe, would need to drink it-----we know Harry's couragious! Voldy will probably think he needs a "boost", maybe.
Actually-----come to think of it-----SWITCH THAT! I think Voldy's too egotistical to think he needs any help!
.....and HARRY Humble would be the one who thinks he needs it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do think that the book (UK Adult Edition) is a clue that Harry gets into NEWT Potions class------but, I can't decide why it's tattered.....
I kind of like the idea, that somebody already posted, that Snape has to provide the books, like in Trelawney's class-----I dunno.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think that DD looks extremely angry, and Harry looks surprised (UK Children's Edition)
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 12:30 pm (#2733 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I think the book is tattered perhaps because it may have been previously owned. I like the idea of Harry acquiring Sirius's or his dad's old book. Perhaps this is the copy that someone like Dumbledore or McGonagall or Snape used. Someone mentioned earlier that Ron is known for having hand-me-down books, and that could fit, too.
As to the borage, I think the connection to courage is particularly interesting given that there is now a second war.
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 12:33 pm (#2734 of 2923)
Those are all good suggestions to account for the tattered state of the book, but it may just be artistic liscence.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 12:33 pm (#2735 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
You know, it's funny TGF, I have found that I don't even look at the chapter art as I'm reading the American versions. On other threads when somebody has mentioned something about the chapter art, I have had to go back and look it up, and I would swear that I have never seen that page before in my life. I guess I'm just so anxious to read the text, that I skim right over the chapter art, and frequently the chapter titles too. I would no more stop to look at and consider/speculate on the meaning of the chapter titles in the index than I would cut off my right hand for Voldemort. I just jump in and start reading the second I get the new book in my hot little hands! Probably a bad habit, actually. Once I finish the book I sometimes go back and look at the art and titles and think "Wow, that's kind of cool."
The tidbits JKR's given us of the three titles in HBP have encouraged me to re-evaluate my habits...
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 12:39 pm (#2736 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, I used the American book on my second or third reading. So I was more inclined to look at chapter titles/art than I would have been on my first read through.
"Someone mentioned earlier that Ron is known for having hand-me-down books, and that could fit, too."
I think we can say pretty certainly that Harry will be in NEWT potions, but I would be sceptical about Ron getting into NEWT potions. He doesn't like the class any more than Harry does, and he doesn't NEED it the way Harry does.
I think it would also be kinda weird to have something of Ron's on the cover, exclusively... unless that potions book ties into the story in a really fundamental way, that is.
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LooneyLuna - Mar 8, 2005 12:43 pm (#2737 of 2923)
Maybe the old book is Snape's. It's the book he teaches Newt Potions from.
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Steve Newton - Mar 8, 2005 12:45 pm (#2738 of 2923)
Librarian
I must ahve missed something. I've scouted back and can't figure out where people are finding the borage reference.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 12:49 pm (#2739 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I don't think Snape needs to teach from out of a textbook. That's more of an Umbridge thing.
Re: The American cover... at first glance I thought that was a cauldron for a potion, but a closer look reveals that the thing is a sort of dish, more akin to a penseive, as others have mentioned. The green light is eerie though... It's possible that it's a memory of Avada Kedavra, as Ainsley suggested above. I like that idea... But why would Harry want to pull out one of his AK memories and look at it?
Aside: Isn't it funny how we're all trying to judge the book by its covers?
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Amilia Smith - Mar 8, 2005 12:56 pm (#2740 of 2923)
Steve: The author of "Advanced Potion-Making," on the British adult cover, is Libatius Borage.
Thanks everyone for answering my question about Flitwick. I had forgotten those references.
Mills.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 12:57 pm (#2741 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Mooncalf - Those are all good suggestions to account for the tattered state of the book, but it may just be artistic liscence.
I am inclined to agree with you, Mooncalf. A picture of a book in excellent condition is not nearly as interesting as a picture of a beat-up tome about advanced potion making. The mystery of it certainly gets the mind working, doesn't it?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 8, 2005 1:00 pm (#2742 of 2923)
The version of the cover raises the following question in my mind. Is it possible that Dumbledore sent Snape on an errand or mission much like he did with Hagrid in OotP. When sanpe returns he finds GHarry in his class.
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Penny Lane. - Mar 8, 2005 1:00 pm (#2743 of 2923)
I've always pictured all wizarding world books to look older - even the new ones. I think that it means that Harry will be in Advanced Potions next year, and that Potions will be an important plot point.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 1:01 pm (#2744 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
"The author of "Advanced Potion-Making," on the British adult cover, is Libatius Borage."
Hmmm interesting... but when have the authors of books ever been important though? I mean, Lockhart was a bit of an extreme case, but for all of the other books within the story, they've just been names with no relevance to anything.
I think I also agree about the condition of the book being a product of artistic license.
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 1:05 pm (#2745 of 2923)
Maybe Harry IS reviewing a pensieve AK memory. Maybe he's looking at it with DD to see who else was in Godric's Hollow, or review what death eaters are present at Voldy's revival or something along those lines. Hmmmm.
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Penny Lane. - Mar 8, 2005 1:07 pm (#2746 of 2923)
Maybe Harry will recive his own Pensive! He could really use it, what with all the bad memories clogging up his brain. If he could remove some of them, he might actually be able to concentrate on potions.
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 1:09 pm (#2747 of 2923)
Absolutely, Prefect Marcus. It is a handsome and thought-provoking image, whether it is relevant or not!
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Steve Newton - Mar 8, 2005 1:31 pm (#2748 of 2923)
Librarian
Thanks Amilia Smith and TGF for the borage information. I'll look more closely next time.
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GryffEndora - Mar 8, 2005 2:03 pm (#2749 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Amilia Smith, LooneyLuna & azi:
Yes, I was referring to when Flitwick supervised the DADA exam. I apologize for stating my opinion as fact, however I believe Flitwick supervised the DADA class because he was at that time the professor of DADA. I think the fact that he was a dueling champion would show excellent preparation for DADA. Every OWL exam we've seen has been overseen by that subject's professor. I do agree however, that doesn't necessarily mean he taught the subject, but that is what I inferred from that scene. Perhaps he wanted to teach Charms but took a different post until the desired one became free.
I'm sorry for any confusion I left in the wake of my last post.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 2:09 pm (#2750 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 1:11 pm
GryffEndora - Every OWL exam we've seen has been overseen by that subject's professor.
Are you sure?
I don't recall Snape overseeing Potions, Trelawney or Firenze being over Divinations, Sinistra being at Astronomy, nor Binns being at Magical History. I could be mistaken, however.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Just as things are getting interesting on the forum today... work takes over.... and I'm out on training the rest of the week, so no forum til next monday... BOOOO!
Anyways, I love the UK adult cover & like the idea that the book might have had one or two 'useful' previous owners... like the HBP perhaps You never know. Until next week... have fun with your theories...
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 8, 2005 10:11 am (#2702 of 2923)
Well, for my two cents, my first thought was Pensieve. I too like the idea that it is Voldemort's. I might throw in a couple other things. The Bloomsbury child cover version shows Harry and DD surrounded by what appears to be a ring of fire type deal. The adult cover has a copy of "advanced potion making." Just thought I'd throw those in the mix as long as we're speculating based on cover art.
I like that idea. Dumbledore and Harry have snuck into Voldemort's place and have found it.--Marcus
Sounds thrilling to me too Marcus. Alas, it makes me a little scared for Dumbledore though.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 10:11 am (#2703 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
Ooh, good one FF.
We have seen in CoS how a previously owned book exerted a tremendous amount of influence....
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 10:12 am (#2704 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Madam Pince: "Moonrider, maybe it's sitting on the Pillar of Storge!"
After finishing my laughter, I got to thinking. You know, I wouldn't put it past Rowling. She is just enough of a character to do it.
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Fawkes Forever - Mar 8, 2005 10:17 am (#2705 of 2923)
Crookshanks is not ugly, he's just aesthetically challenged ;o) Hee hee, looks like there's more than one ginger male in Hermiones life!
Thanks Catherine... now I really do have to go (drags herself away from keyboard)... NOOOO don't wanna go on stupid training...
Oh Happy Birthday Loopy... nice pressie from Bloomsbury/Scolastic anyways
Giggling to oneself about the pillar of storge
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Ainsley Black - Mar 8, 2005 10:21 am (#2706 of 2923)
My first thought about the UK picture was the cage Harry and Voldie produced in GOF but looking at it bigger it looks more like the description of a spell acst by DD at Voldie in the MOM. PLus DD looks almost shocked, as does Harry. If they could just let us see that little bit above DD's wand then we could tell if the fire was coming from DD's wand or not. (Ruddy Editors editing of pictures! lol)
The US version makes me think that Harry and DD have stubled upon a pensive (who's is anybodys guess) but it looks like it could be showing a memory that involves and AK possibly.
The Adult edition looks great too! But, as mentioned before, i'm not so sure it's showing us that Harry makes it into NEWT Potions but more likely Ron, unless they don't buy thier own books in this subject and as in Trelawny's lessons they are given books in class.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 10:23 am (#2707 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:34 pm
Loopy Lupin: "Alas, it makes me a little scared for Dumbledore though."
I thought that exact same thing!
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Eliza - Mar 8, 2005 10:26 am (#2708 of 2923)
I think that the rings of flames may be a protective thing produced by Dumbledore, possibly even a unique way of traveling. Maybe that is why he can go places others can't. And look at the horror on Harry's face. I think that Dumbledore is trying to protect Harry here, possibly from the HBP. Maybe the HBP is on Voldy's side.
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Hollywand - Mar 8, 2005 10:26 am (#2709 of 2923)
Gryffindor
I love the tattered violet book on the UK version. I immediately thought of the Very Secret Diary. Hmmm. If Harry has a new Potions Master, yikes..... Borage, have to look up medicinal use of borage....
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GryffEndora - Mar 8, 2005 10:32 am (#2710 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Hollywand-I love the tattered violet book on the UK version. I immediately thought of the Very Secret Diary. Hmmm. If Harry has a new Potions Master, yikes..... Borage, have to look up medicinal use of borage....
Interesting Hollywand, but what if Borage isn't the new potions master but the new DADA Teacher? Flitwick, the current Charms Prof., used to teach DADA so why not a DADA expert on potions?
The intense greens and purples in the art work make me think about acid, poisons and potions. Perhaps potions and anti-venoms become important in DADA as well as the story. It would also be interesting to see Snape with a potions equal and how they would interact, especially if the new potions expert has the job that Snape covets.
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Elanor - Mar 8, 2005 10:43 am (#2711 of 2923)
Hollywand: "Borage, have to look up medicinal use of borage.... "
Great catch! I hadn't realized it was a plant's name! I've searched and it is used against depressive state, eczema and for purifying blood. In alchemy, it was connected to Jupiter (and Jupiter's colours are traditionally purple, as the covert of the book is! and green). Does it help?
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azi - Mar 8, 2005 10:48 am (#2712 of 2923)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I think the flames on the UK kids editions are from Dumbledore's wand, it appears they are issuing from it anyway. Dumbledore looks slightly insane on the cover (an understatment I feel). It seems to be a sort of desperate scenario, like the two are on the edge of being squished to a pulp. Harry is staring in horror and Dumbledore is doing his power-thing with the scaryness. Thats the only way I can describe it.
I don't think the US version shows the pensive, although I could be wrong. It's just not how I imagine it to look like in my mind. If it is, I will be happy as the pensive constitutes some of my favourite parts of the other books.
The UK adult version is indeed interesting. Perhaps the book is borrowed from the library, like the restricted section? Therefore, it could be extremely old and tatty. However, the names suggests to me it's just a run of the mill school textbook.
Sorry if I've repeated something, I just skimmed the posts.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 10:48 am (#2713 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
The source I consulted said that borage was put into the wine of ancient warriors to give them courage....
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Diagon Nilly - Mar 8, 2005 10:52 am (#2714 of 2923)
Hmmmm, so Snape gets DADA finally and replace him with a new potions master who happens to be the HBP.
Not likely, but hmmmm.
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So Sirius - Mar 8, 2005 10:56 am (#2715 of 2923)
They released the cover for the Half-Blood Prince and DD and Harry are on the cover. I'm feeling more and more that those who predicted the HBP to be Dumbledore, to be correct.
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mike miller - Mar 8, 2005 10:57 am (#2716 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Here's an idea. Assuming pensieves are extremely rare items, it's possible that there has always been one (the same one) at the disposal of the Headmaster. DD and Harry could be looking back at memories left by the HBP (Godric Gryffindor).
As far as the UK adult cover, I would not put it past Snape to select a very old book for advanced Potion making, one that is "out of print" making old tattered copies all that are available.
I have long held that there must be a reconciliation between Harry and Severus; hopefully "burying the hatchet" between Voldemort's red eyes. This would also get us into the "heart of the story" accepting people (and creatures) for who they are, complete with their faults, the sum total of their choices.
Just my 2 knuts worth....
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Ainsley Black - Mar 8, 2005 11:03 am (#2717 of 2923)
I've always pictured a pensive to look like a pesel and mortar, if you know what i mean. Quite small and rough cut stone.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 11:11 am (#2718 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Elanor: Borage...is used against depressive state, eczema and for purifying blood.
Purifying blood? Hmmmmm.... sounds very Slytherin...
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 11:28 am (#2719 of 2923)
Ainsley, I agree with you, I picture the Pensieve much differently, but that doesnt always mean anything. I picture Peeves very differently then the picture on JKR's website. Maybe the basin Harry and DD are looking into is something in the department of mysteries?
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 8, 2005 11:29 am (#2720 of 2923)
I didn't even think about NEWT's when I first saw the potions book on the adult cover. I believe I speculated in the past that Harry, at least, would surprise himself by getting the grade needed to move on to advanced potions with Snape. (I'm sure Hermione will be there too, but Ron may not have made the cut.) I'm now fairly convinced this will be part of HBP. The Harry/Snape tension is so great, it seems likely that Rowling would want to continue it and since Snape has such high standards to get into the class, it would follow that Harry made the grade.
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Miss Caramel - Mar 8, 2005 11:31 am (#2721 of 2923)
I have read a few things about the (possible) pensieve on the cover and how it may be memories from Voldemort or Godric Gryffindor or whoever... however, since you have to extract your own thoughts to put in the pensieve, in order for this thoery to work, the previous pensieve user would have had to put in the memory long ago and kept it there protected all these years. I think that may be reaching a bit. I like the theory (sorry, don't remember whose) that the pensieve is holding Harry's latent memories of the night his parents were killed. Ooohhhh! I'm just dying for that book! All this speculation is killing me!
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 11:48 am (#2722 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Marcus, fair points about the differences in appearance between the "HBP" bowl and GrandPre's previous versions of the pensieve. I guess I was just thinking that the differences were pretty slight, and that maybe she had simply adjusted her "vision" in order to make the cover art more interesting or artistic or something. But it certainly could be that it's a totally different object. It surely is beaten up and cracked, etc., which the books make no mention of up to this point, I don't think.
Both Harry and Dumbledore have expressions on their faces that would seem to indicate that they are seeing something shocking. At first I thought this meant it couldn't be a pensieve, because they wouldn't be seeing anything until they stuck their faces into the surface. But then I remembered that Dumbledore could pull images out of the pensieve (Bertha Jorkins, Snape discussing Karkaroff's Dark Mark) to observe them, but that when Harry puts his face into the surface, it's more like being "sucked" into the scene of the thought -- as if you're there while it's taking place, but under an Invisibility Cloak or something.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 11:55 am (#2723 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I log in upon waking up, look at this thread, see 64 new replies and think 'What the heck? 64? That discussion really must've picked up!" ... Guess I know why now.
I've always hated the American children covers, and this one is no exception. The Adult one seems to confirm that Harry got into Potion NEWTs, unless, of course, they just put a random magical expression on it, which I doubt.
But that British one... can we say... HELL YEAH!! That thing looks SWEET! The expression on Dumbledore's face in that one is just plain epic. Harry looks a tad scared, but damn, that thing is amazing. I cannot wait to hold this book in my hands...
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Amilia Smith - Mar 8, 2005 12:04 pm (#2724 of 2923)
GriffEndora: Flitwick, the current Charms Prof., used to teach DADA . . .
Sorry, but I missed that somewhere. When did Flitwick teach DADA? Also, I love your idea that the new DADA teacher is a potions expert in his own right.
As I haven't much imagination myself, I won't speculate on what any of the cover art means. Suffice it to say that there was some major bouncing up and down going on in my chair when I saw the Potions textbook. I am really enjoying everyone's theories. Keep up the good work! :-)
Mills.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 12:09 pm (#2725 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
TGF, do you mean you hate the British childrens' versions? The Americans just have the one version, I think -- there is no separate children's version like the UK one.
I just thought of something: Do the British versions have the artwork by Mary GrandPre at the start of each chapter? Or do they have different art, or no art at all, for the chapter title pages?
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LooneyLuna - Mar 8, 2005 12:16 pm (#2726 of 2923)
I know Flitwick supervised the DADA essay final for the Marauders and Snape (from Snape's Worst Memory, OotP). I'm not sure if that means he actually taught DADA.
I'm excited to see the cover art. I really like them. I think Harry will be taking Newt Potions and spending a lot of time with Dumbledore. YAY!
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Ihavebothbuttocks - Mar 8, 2005 12:17 pm (#2727 of 2923)
Mme. Pince, the UK editions have no chapter art.
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azi - Mar 8, 2005 12:17 pm (#2728 of 2923)
Photo borrowed from Ardent Photography
I think GriffEndora meant Flitwick used to be a duelling champion when he was younger.
I've been looking at the American cover again and am liking less and less. The expressions of Harry and Dumbledore don't really give anything away.
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 12:19 pm (#2729 of 2923)
Sorry if this question doesnt belong here, but what exactly is the difference between the UK children and adult versions?
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 12:20 pm (#2730 of 2923)
The British versions have no chapter art at all. Mary Grand Pre's work is strictly for the scholastic editions.
Personally, I would be surprised is Harry weren't in the advanced potions class. JKR likes to have some things continue from book to book, and Harry in Snape's class is a big one. Sha has also dropped lots of hints that he will be in the class.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 12:21 pm (#2731 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Yes, I do mean the British children's version.
No, British versions do not have the chapter art, which is another thing I am thankful for. I have an American OotP and found those pictures to be really irritating as I read it... especially the ones of Umbridge. Ich.
Anyhow... It figures that Harry would be closer to DD in this book, since DD will likely be teaching Harry Occulmency. The fact he'll have such a prominent role this time around also suggests that he might die... in a blaze of glory, if you will.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 12:22 pm (#2732 of 2923)
Edited by Kip Carter Mar 8, 2005 8:34 pm
Catherine: "The source I consulted said that borage was put into the wine of ancient warriors to give them courage.... "
This would go along with what Madam Pince thought-----as well as I-----that his first name may have been derived from "libation".
With that in mind, I'm thinking that Voldy, maybe, would need to drink it-----we know Harry's couragious! Voldy will probably think he needs a "boost", maybe.
Actually-----come to think of it-----SWITCH THAT! I think Voldy's too egotistical to think he needs any help!
.....and HARRY Humble would be the one who thinks he needs it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I do think that the book (UK Adult Edition) is a clue that Harry gets into NEWT Potions class------but, I can't decide why it's tattered.....
I kind of like the idea, that somebody already posted, that Snape has to provide the books, like in Trelawney's class-----I dunno.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think that DD looks extremely angry, and Harry looks surprised (UK Children's Edition)
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 12:30 pm (#2733 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I think the book is tattered perhaps because it may have been previously owned. I like the idea of Harry acquiring Sirius's or his dad's old book. Perhaps this is the copy that someone like Dumbledore or McGonagall or Snape used. Someone mentioned earlier that Ron is known for having hand-me-down books, and that could fit, too.
As to the borage, I think the connection to courage is particularly interesting given that there is now a second war.
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 12:33 pm (#2734 of 2923)
Those are all good suggestions to account for the tattered state of the book, but it may just be artistic liscence.
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 12:33 pm (#2735 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
You know, it's funny TGF, I have found that I don't even look at the chapter art as I'm reading the American versions. On other threads when somebody has mentioned something about the chapter art, I have had to go back and look it up, and I would swear that I have never seen that page before in my life. I guess I'm just so anxious to read the text, that I skim right over the chapter art, and frequently the chapter titles too. I would no more stop to look at and consider/speculate on the meaning of the chapter titles in the index than I would cut off my right hand for Voldemort. I just jump in and start reading the second I get the new book in my hot little hands! Probably a bad habit, actually. Once I finish the book I sometimes go back and look at the art and titles and think "Wow, that's kind of cool."
The tidbits JKR's given us of the three titles in HBP have encouraged me to re-evaluate my habits...
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 12:39 pm (#2736 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Well, I used the American book on my second or third reading. So I was more inclined to look at chapter titles/art than I would have been on my first read through.
"Someone mentioned earlier that Ron is known for having hand-me-down books, and that could fit, too."
I think we can say pretty certainly that Harry will be in NEWT potions, but I would be sceptical about Ron getting into NEWT potions. He doesn't like the class any more than Harry does, and he doesn't NEED it the way Harry does.
I think it would also be kinda weird to have something of Ron's on the cover, exclusively... unless that potions book ties into the story in a really fundamental way, that is.
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LooneyLuna - Mar 8, 2005 12:43 pm (#2737 of 2923)
Maybe the old book is Snape's. It's the book he teaches Newt Potions from.
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Steve Newton - Mar 8, 2005 12:45 pm (#2738 of 2923)
Librarian
I must ahve missed something. I've scouted back and can't figure out where people are finding the borage reference.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 12:49 pm (#2739 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
I don't think Snape needs to teach from out of a textbook. That's more of an Umbridge thing.
Re: The American cover... at first glance I thought that was a cauldron for a potion, but a closer look reveals that the thing is a sort of dish, more akin to a penseive, as others have mentioned. The green light is eerie though... It's possible that it's a memory of Avada Kedavra, as Ainsley suggested above. I like that idea... But why would Harry want to pull out one of his AK memories and look at it?
Aside: Isn't it funny how we're all trying to judge the book by its covers?
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Amilia Smith - Mar 8, 2005 12:56 pm (#2740 of 2923)
Steve: The author of "Advanced Potion-Making," on the British adult cover, is Libatius Borage.
Thanks everyone for answering my question about Flitwick. I had forgotten those references.
Mills.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 12:57 pm (#2741 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Mooncalf - Those are all good suggestions to account for the tattered state of the book, but it may just be artistic liscence.
I am inclined to agree with you, Mooncalf. A picture of a book in excellent condition is not nearly as interesting as a picture of a beat-up tome about advanced potion making. The mystery of it certainly gets the mind working, doesn't it?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 8, 2005 1:00 pm (#2742 of 2923)
The version of the cover raises the following question in my mind. Is it possible that Dumbledore sent Snape on an errand or mission much like he did with Hagrid in OotP. When sanpe returns he finds GHarry in his class.
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Penny Lane. - Mar 8, 2005 1:00 pm (#2743 of 2923)
I've always pictured all wizarding world books to look older - even the new ones. I think that it means that Harry will be in Advanced Potions next year, and that Potions will be an important plot point.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 1:01 pm (#2744 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
"The author of "Advanced Potion-Making," on the British adult cover, is Libatius Borage."
Hmmm interesting... but when have the authors of books ever been important though? I mean, Lockhart was a bit of an extreme case, but for all of the other books within the story, they've just been names with no relevance to anything.
I think I also agree about the condition of the book being a product of artistic license.
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 1:05 pm (#2745 of 2923)
Maybe Harry IS reviewing a pensieve AK memory. Maybe he's looking at it with DD to see who else was in Godric's Hollow, or review what death eaters are present at Voldy's revival or something along those lines. Hmmmm.
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Penny Lane. - Mar 8, 2005 1:07 pm (#2746 of 2923)
Maybe Harry will recive his own Pensive! He could really use it, what with all the bad memories clogging up his brain. If he could remove some of them, he might actually be able to concentrate on potions.
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 1:09 pm (#2747 of 2923)
Absolutely, Prefect Marcus. It is a handsome and thought-provoking image, whether it is relevant or not!
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Steve Newton - Mar 8, 2005 1:31 pm (#2748 of 2923)
Librarian
Thanks Amilia Smith and TGF for the borage information. I'll look more closely next time.
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GryffEndora - Mar 8, 2005 2:03 pm (#2749 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Amilia Smith, LooneyLuna & azi:
Yes, I was referring to when Flitwick supervised the DADA exam. I apologize for stating my opinion as fact, however I believe Flitwick supervised the DADA class because he was at that time the professor of DADA. I think the fact that he was a dueling champion would show excellent preparation for DADA. Every OWL exam we've seen has been overseen by that subject's professor. I do agree however, that doesn't necessarily mean he taught the subject, but that is what I inferred from that scene. Perhaps he wanted to teach Charms but took a different post until the desired one became free.
I'm sorry for any confusion I left in the wake of my last post.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 2:09 pm (#2750 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 1:11 pm
GryffEndora - Every OWL exam we've seen has been overseen by that subject's professor.
Are you sure?
I don't recall Snape overseeing Potions, Trelawney or Firenze being over Divinations, Sinistra being at Astronomy, nor Binns being at Magical History. I could be mistaken, however.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2751 to 2800)
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 2:14 pm (#2751 of 2923)
I had assumed that he was merely acting as proctor, and did not necessarily have anything to do with the subject of the OWL.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 8, 2005 2:15 pm (#2752 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I just looked at the covers of all the books and noticed something odd. On the US versions of GoF, OotP and HBP, Harry has his wand in his left hand. Harry's right-handed.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 8, 2005 2:28 pm (#2753 of 2923)
Vlad, I have wondered about that myself I think that it could possibly be because, the covers are not the actual reality but reflections like a person would see when an image is reflected back in a mirror.
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Detail Seeker - Mar 8, 2005 2:31 pm (#2754 of 2923)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Combining the scene from the American edition and the British adult one, the following picture grew in my mind:
In some place (Spinners End ?) the Pensieve of a long lost and dead person ( the Half-Blood Prince ?) is found by DD and Harry as well as that old Potions textbook ( a long lost edition, the only one describing a special potion, DD remembered to be of crucial importance). This Pensieve reveals the information necessary to understand an important background to a conflict between Order and someone in the Ministry or relations between some Death Eaters and - who knows.
I know, speculations not based on anything nor very clear , just a flash. Well, July is not so far away and will come earlier as thought of.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 2:33 pm (#2755 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Ooooooooooooooooo!
You're good, Detail Seeker. :-)
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 2:39 pm (#2756 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I'm wondering if Harry doesn't make it into NEWT Potions and has to have extra lessons from Snape like he did with the Occlumancy.... Don't know why the picture of that old book made me think of that... maybe because it looks like books in the Forbidden section of the Library.....
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 2:44 pm (#2757 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I wondered that, too, Sarah. I thought perhaps Harry might be tutored by McGonagall. She did promise to coach him nightly if it were needed!
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 2:50 pm (#2758 of 2923)
Let it snow!
You know, someone mentioned Ron not needing Potions... Well, since we've only heard about him wanting to be an Auror too, not any other professions, he would have to have it....
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Steve Newton - Mar 8, 2005 2:52 pm (#2759 of 2923)
Librarian
I suspect that the book on the cover is just an artist's impression. If not, perhaps it has something to do with the ancient magic that protects Harry.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 8, 2005 2:57 pm (#2760 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
The covers could be mirror images, Nathan. If only we knew which of Moody's eyes was the magical one, we could confirm it from the back cover of OotP(if there is a canonical reference to which eye it is, I can't recall it at the moment).
I have a question that I hope someone can answer. Are the UK adult covers the same on the hard covers and paperbacks? My paperbacks of the first four books have the Hogwarts Express, the Anglia, Buckbeak and a Dragon.
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 3:05 pm (#2761 of 2923)
Olivia
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 2:24 pm
I Am Used Vlad, the only hardback cover I have is for ootp which has the phoenix rising out of flames, the paperback has now been produced and the cover is the same so I am presuming it is the same for the first 4 books.
Edit: Kindly remember that the pronoun 'I' is capitalized. I took care of it for you. Thanks.
Marcus
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 3:14 pm (#2762 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
You know, someone mentioned Ron not needing Potions... Well, since we've only heard about him wanting to be an Auror too, not any other professions, he would have to have it.... S. E. Jones
I agree with you, Sarah. Harry and Ron can always use the "we hated the greasy git's class anyway" line if they want to "save face" for not making N.E.W.T. Potions. But, they both do need to continue Potions study if they want to be Aurors. Ron also probably experiences a great deal of academic pressure from Molly, and we've seen Ron's desire to live up to his brothers' successes.
Even if this wasn't all an issue, JKR has said that we'll see plenty of Snape because he "is a gift of a character," so I am assuming that Potions will prove an important topic in HBP and that the Potions Master will continue to make Harry's (and probably Ron and Hermione's) life miserable.
I can't wait! :::rubs hands together gleefully:::
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Chemyst - Mar 8, 2005 3:22 pm (#2763 of 2923)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
My early thought on the UK adult cover was that the book was tattered because it had survived the explosion and was found in the rubble of the Godric's Hollow house where the Potters were in hiding. Then I wondered if they ever, as I often do, had any extra notes or letters slipped in between the pages. It would be rather poignant if a book from his parent's house could provide the clue or the potion recipe Harry needs to defeat their murderer.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 3:28 pm (#2764 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
An interesting idea Chem... It would certainly be a strange choice on Rowling's part to have an old textbook as the sole artifact recovered from the rubble of Godric's Hollow... but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 8, 2005 3:30 pm (#2765 of 2923)
Flitwick supervising the Defense O.W.L. written test doesn't mean he was the Defense professor. It could just mean that he agreed to do it because the Defense professor had an accident or left for some other reason.
I like the idea that the US cover is a Pensieve of Harry's memory of what happened in Godric's Hollow. With all the green, it could be when Voldemort killed Lily, and the looks on Harry and Dumbledore's faces could be surprise because of exactly what happened or because of who else was there.
I really don't think JKR is going to make Snape the Defense professor, but she could do that and have Harry in N.E.W.T. potions with someone else. If not that, then I like the idea of Harry having a tutor for potions.
Regardless of where JKR goes with it, having a potions textbook on the cover would seem to indicate that we'll be seeing a lot more of Snape. I know Gina will be pleased about that.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 8, 2005 3:30 pm (#2766 of 2923)
I'm sorry, but I haven't the energy to read through the b'zillion new messages on this thread since the cover art was shown this morning. Can anyone make out the title of the book on the UK adult cover? I definitely cannot, but I have these new glasses, see, and....
Thanks.
Ciao. Barb
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 4:01 pm (#2767 of 2923)
The Title says: "Advanced Potion's Making"
So, that obviously means either Harry Ron or Hermione will be taking advanced potions! Woo Hoooo
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 4:01 pm (#2768 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
It's "Advanced Potion Making" by Libatious Borage. (we're not entirely sure of the spelling of the name, I gather.)
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Gina R Snape - Mar 8, 2005 4:06 pm (#2769 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Barb, it says "Advanced Potion Making" by Libatius Borage. You can see the covers a bit better here. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
As for what they tell us about HbP. Here's my thoughts:
I think the US edition definitely shows a pensieve. I believe DD will be taking Harry back in time to learn about some past events, because JKR said this book will give more answers than questions.
I think in the UK edition, they are travelling. I get the distinct feeling of motion when I look at the swirls of flames. And I don't think the pensieve and the flames covers are all that far apart---maybe even part of the same chapter in the book that is of high importance.
I believe the potions text is old and tattered. I suspect it might be Snape's old book. Or it might be an old version of the textbook that contains a potion no longer published in the newer editions. I think Potions and Snape WILL play a big role in this book (crosses fingers desperately!).
I also believe Harry will not get the grade he needs to enter advanced Potions. But DD will bend the rules and force Snape to accept Harry in his class anyway, which will add to his resentment of the boy.
But I also think we will learn a lot about the importance of potions in either the downfall of the Dark Lord or how he gained his seeming immortality. Or both...
I rather like this idea of Harry going back to THAT night at Godric's Hollow. It fits in with the whole DD taking Harry back to the past theme. I don't know, though, if Harry is capable of drawing that memory from his infancy.
Anyway, those are my thoughts so far! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee. This is FUN!
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Eliza - Mar 8, 2005 4:11 pm (#2770 of 2923)
I Am Used Vlad - "I just looked at the covers of all the books and noticed something odd. On the US versions of GoF, OotP and HBP, Harry has his wand in his left hand. Harry's right-handed."
I know this may just be my lack of observentness but where do we find out Harry is right handed?
Also, I am so jealous that these artists have gotten to read the book.
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Dumbledore - Mar 8, 2005 4:13 pm (#2771 of 2923)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Yayy!!! SO excited to come home from school to have this lovely surprise waiting for me.
As to my own interpretations, I have a lot of half-formed theories that have pretty much already been expressed by my fellow Potties(nice job in less than 24 hours!!)
However, I do think it makes sense that Harry would be able to extract sub-conscious images of the night at Godric's Hollow that he never even remembered having (such as the effect that the dementors had on him, that he was able to recall memories he never knew he had). Perhaps Dumbledore asks him to extract these memories into the pensieve to better find out what happened that night...
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 4:16 pm (#2772 of 2923)
Olivia
Eliza, it says in PS/SS UK edition P64, Mr Ollivander says " Which is your wand arm?" "Er-well, I'm right-handed," said Harry.
I know I'm not I Am Used Vlad but I read the passage the other day so I knew where to look for it.
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The Willow Tree - Mar 8, 2005 4:18 pm (#2773 of 2923)
The British adult verion seems to me to be the most thought provoking of all three bookcovers. We know that Harrys stay at Privet Drive will be the shortest so far. JK told us that we should be asking 'why did voldemort not die'? rather than 'why did Harry survive?. What did voldemort do during the time of leaving school and then returning years later so transformed that hardly anyone recognised him as Tom Riddle? Could this have anything to do with 'Potions' he concocted, as well as other spells,charms etc. Maybe Dumbledore takes Harry to Spinners end(chapter 2,i think)to teach him advanced potions to help him defend himself against voldemort. I think potions is going to be VERY important in HBP. Also the book on the bookcover may belong to Dumbledore from when he was old a student himself.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 4:20 pm (#2774 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I like that idea Dumbledore. Harry remembered the flash of green light and Voldemort laughing even as far back as book 1, so it would make sense that Harry could grab that little bit of memory and the Pensieve could fill in the gaps with what is in his subconscious....
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 4:22 pm (#2775 of 2923)
In SS, When Harry goes into the wand shop, Mr. Ollivander asks Harry which is his wand hand, and Harry replies that he is right-handed.
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 4:26 pm (#2776 of 2923)
The Willow Tree, you just gave me an idea.
I do think it was some form of a potion that stopped Voldy, possibly the stopper of death that Snape mentioned in SS/PS. Could that be how Snape became a DE in the first place? Voldy knew Snape was very skilled at potions, and into dark arts, recruited him, made him one of the gang (something Snape seemed to be out of in his Hogwarts days) and had him make him stopper of death. Snape then did this early on, before he really realized what he got himself into with the DE and then went to DD for help to get out. He explained to DD the whole senario about the Stopper of Death, and probably how it works and such if DD didnt already know. Then he gave him some other useful info, and got back into DD's trust.
Hmmm, I'm gonna go post this on the Snape thread now.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 8, 2005 4:30 pm (#2777 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Eliza, Harry tells Ollivander that he is right-handed in SS/PS.
My current thoughts:
The facial expressions of both Dumbledore and Harry on the children's UK cover make me think that they are in the middle of a battle. If it is, they are probably fighting Voldemort. If it were anyone else fighting Dumbledore, the battle would probably be short-lived. I did not foresee a confrontation between Dumbledore and Voldemort in HBP, but now I wonder. Could this be a glimpse of Dumbledore's final scene?
The adult covers don't ever give anything important away, but then Harry continuing to study Potions, whether by making the grade or at the insistence of Dumbledore or whatever, would not exactly be a shocking revelation.
I find the green mist to be the most interesting aspect of the US cover, but have not decided what to make of it yet.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 4:31 pm (#2778 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
This is great.
I knew the green color of the cover must be important, but Sarah connected it to Harry's vague memory of the green light, and now I really do wonder if that is what Harry and Dumbledore are seeing in the Pensieve--the night that Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow. That would explain the intense looks that the two of them seem to have in the illustration.
Oooh...I can't wait for July 16.
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T Brightwater - Mar 8, 2005 4:47 pm (#2779 of 2923)
The old book on the UK adult cover suggests a possible link between CoS and HBP - Tom Riddle's diary was slipped into a used textbook by Lucius Malfoy. Is it possible that
-the textbook is another of "Lord Voldemort's school things"? and has a nasty surprise for someone?
-some character will find something hidden in a used text? That points to Ron, I think, assuming he got into 6th year Potions, since he's the most likely to be using a secondhand text, unless...
-it's Neville's father's book and he has left some interesting information in it? I think it's unlikely (though not impossible) that Neville got into NEWT Potions, but he might offer the book to Harry or Hermione.
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Albus Silente - Mar 8, 2005 4:52 pm (#2780 of 2923)
All theories I thought of have already been mentioned. (it took me 1 hour to get them all through!!!) Well, anyhow, now that I have seen the covers- I like the British ones better- I'm nearly going mad. M A D ! I just can't wait for July 16!!! *pacing up and down her room* *butterflies in her stomach*
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Cuivienen - Mar 8, 2005 5:09 pm (#2781 of 2923)
One thing about the Potions book -- it's very old. Very, very old. Far too old for Harry to have bought it for NEWT Potions; he wouldn't buy something so old and decrepit when he could buy a new copy. It's probably either a library book (Restricted Section, most likely) or Ginny's or Ron's Potions book for the year.
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Eponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:17 pm (#2782 of 2923)
I don't think this has been mentioned yet. After they revealed the cover for HBP on the Today show this morning, Al Roker had a chat with Arthur Levine, Jo's editor of whom I am so jealous. Levine revealed a few tidbits that while aren't really new, might give us something new to talk about as well.
There is to be a new Minister for Magic - this much we knew, but it had never been specifically stated if it was going to be in book 6 or 7. We learn much more about Voldemort - perhaps we'll be getting a lot more about his backstory from a pensieve. No information revealed on whether Snape will be the Half-Blood Prince - Al Roker seemed a bit eager to know more about Snape. HBP will be an intense book, but with light-hearted moments - as OotP was as well.
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mike miller - Mar 8, 2005 5:18 pm (#2783 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Chemyst - I really like your idea of the tattered old book belonging to either James or Lily. Perhaps it has something to do with what they did to earn a living since money was not their primary motivator.
The Willow Tree - I also like your idea of it having something to do with the Tranformation of Tom Riddle into Voldemort and how that might have involve dear Severus.
So many good theories...
I will say this about the American cover, it looks to me like Harry is amazed at what he is seeing while DD looks to be more concerned with how Harry reacts to the scene than the scene itself. Just my impression.
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Eliza - Mar 8, 2005 5:40 pm (#2784 of 2923)
Thanks all for clarifying the right-hand thing. I remember that now that you point things out. And the covers are soooooooooo cool.
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Springtime - Mar 8, 2005 5:46 pm (#2785 of 2923)
I think that there is a good possiblity that Snape could be the HBP Why else would they put a potion book on the front cover of the adult edition?
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DJ Evans - Mar 8, 2005 5:46 pm (#2786 of 2923)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
One thought that came to my mind is wonder if the items (the Potion Book & what we are assuming is a Pensive) are things that have been discovered at either Sirius' house or even from the room below the floor at Malfoy's house? Just a thought.
Deb
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 8, 2005 5:49 pm (#2787 of 2923)
Vlad, all the artwork I have seen shows Moody's right eye as being the magical one.
Best Regards, Nathan Zimmermann
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Weeny Owl - Mar 8, 2005 5:50 pm (#2788 of 2923)
Deb! Deb! Deb! I've missed you so much! ::much frantic waving::
I like that idea about it being from under the drawing room floor at Malfoy Manor. It could be something old of Voldemort's.
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DJ Evans - Mar 8, 2005 5:53 pm (#2789 of 2923)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
***waves ever so hard back at Weeny Owl**** I've been around, just haven't had anything to say.
But that's what I was wondering too Weeny Owl -- if it wasn't something of LV's?
Deb
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 6:15 pm (#2790 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I like the theories above about the Potions textbook belonging to someone from the past, rather than just being from the Restricted Section. I especially favor T Brightwater's idea that it belonged to Neville's father -- you're right, it's highly unlikely that Neville will get into Advanced Potions class, but it would be very like Neville to offer the book to someone else who could use it, since he can't. Harry could afford his own copy, so my guess would be that he gave it to Ron. Unless, of course, it's a very special copy that has some "recipes" in it that aren't to be found in more modern texts... I'll bet that particular textbook is not going to be your average run-of-the-mill Potions book.
karebear811, I really like your idea that Voldemort recruited a young Snape just to gain access to some sort of potion that he hoped would put a stop to death. I still haven't decided whether Snape's quote "...put a stopper in Death..." means that he can bottle Death itself, or that he can put a stop to death, but either way, it's probably something Voldemort would be interested in. And poor Severus, not being a member of any cliques at school, would be more than happy to finally feel wanted, I'd bet!
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 6:22 pm (#2791 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Voldemort would've been around for a while by the time Snape graduated. Snape may be a potion expert, but I think we can say that Voldemort knows his potions. The potion he had Wormtail stir up to resurrect himself wasn't exactly what one would call unsophisticated. I can't imagine Voldemort needing or asking for a minion's help on any of the finer points of many forms of magic, let alone potionmaking.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 6:23 pm (#2792 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Hmmmm.... There has certainly been some food for thought today. Old Potions manual. Old Pensieve full of green light. Albus and Harry working together in a dangerous place. All very interesting.
Pulling together some disparate threads...
(1) From CoS we learn that the Malfoys have a secret chamber under their drawing room full of very valuable dark magic stuff.
(2) Also from CoS we learn that Dumbledore will never truly leave Hogwarts as long somebody asks for his help.
(3) Rowling has said there are major clues in CoS dealing with HBP.
(4) AK and the DeathMark both give off green light.
What do these things all add up to? An awful lot to think about. :-)
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#2793 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
What do these things all add up to? An awful lot to think about. :-) --Marcus
Marcus, I may agree with you yet again. Call Rita, she'll want an interview!
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Penny Lane. - Mar 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#2794 of 2923)
Earlier today some people thought that it might not be a pensieve - what if the US cover actually depicts a standard cauldron? We've heard descriptions before of potions that have mists rising off of them - perhaps Harry is actually mixing some sort of uber-potion.
Could it be that Dumbledore is teaching Potions, while Snape is the Defense teacher, and that's how Harry managed to get in?
A while back, someone mentioned that Ron also wants to be an Auror. He could have actualy changed his mind and decided that he wants to work as a teacher at Hogwarts, but is afraid to tell his friends or family. They are at the age where people often decide one thing, but don't tell their friends because they don't want to be different.
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green shoes - Mar 8, 2005 7:30 pm (#2795 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
Hello. I was just looking at the HBP adult british cover with magnification and a filter in my adobe photoshop program, and call me crazy, but it really looks like there is a name, possibly "Godric" where the torn off piece of cover is at the top. I don't know- could be overexcited imagination, but check it out. Awesome covers by the way, I am so pleased and excited! Peace!
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Gina R Snape - Mar 8, 2005 8:06 pm (#2796 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I opened the large version from Mugglenet and enlarged it further with my PhotoShop program. I searched and searched for any signs of writing. I found a couple of loops that could be an L, but nothing concrete enough to make a real guess. AAAAHHH!!!!
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Ponine - Mar 8, 2005 10:20 pm (#2797 of 2923)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
It is so weird how we all see these different things from these simple three pictures!! I love it!! My favorite was the UK cover for adults, as I considered it a clue, or gift for us, somhow (talk about conceited..). I immediately considered the potions book to have been young Tom's book, and although I have not really thought that far ahead yet, I think I like the suggestion of the book resurfacing from Malfoys Manor. As far as the children's UK version, I too thought that it looked like a shield or something to that effect conjured up by DD... Exciting stuff...
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Nicole Bloom - Mar 8, 2005 10:40 pm (#2798 of 2923)
What I find extremely interesting about the UK children's cover is that "Harry Potter" is in green with a blue background. On the UK children's cover for CoS, "Harry Potter" is also green with a blue background. None of the other covers are the same in this respect. PS in Harry in yellow with red background, PoA is Harry in yellow with purple, GoF is Harry in purple with red and OotP is Harry in red with yellow.
We know there is a connection between CoS and HBP. The same coloring is interesting because it is enhancing this connection. It is the first thing I thought of when I saw the cover.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 11:09 pm (#2799 of 2923)
WOW, Nicole----that's an EXTREMELY good catch! Good job!
.....FASCINATING!
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Mistress Gim - Mar 8, 2005 11:35 pm (#2800 of 2923)
Could it be that Dumbledore is teaching Potions, while Snape is the Defense teacher, and that's how Harry managed to get in? -Penny Lane.
That can't be. I remember reading somewhere - I think on the Lexicon - that someone who has a past of being a Death Eater can never be a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. It's forbidden by the Ministry; Cornelious fudge knows of Snape's past - Snape did show his the Dark Mark. And anyway, who would take over as Headmaster? There are a lot of things involved with being the head of a school, so it's one or the other, usually.
I'll look for the essay and quote.
-Koto Asakawa
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I had assumed that he was merely acting as proctor, and did not necessarily have anything to do with the subject of the OWL.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 8, 2005 2:15 pm (#2752 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
I just looked at the covers of all the books and noticed something odd. On the US versions of GoF, OotP and HBP, Harry has his wand in his left hand. Harry's right-handed.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 8, 2005 2:28 pm (#2753 of 2923)
Vlad, I have wondered about that myself I think that it could possibly be because, the covers are not the actual reality but reflections like a person would see when an image is reflected back in a mirror.
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Detail Seeker - Mar 8, 2005 2:31 pm (#2754 of 2923)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Combining the scene from the American edition and the British adult one, the following picture grew in my mind:
In some place (Spinners End ?) the Pensieve of a long lost and dead person ( the Half-Blood Prince ?) is found by DD and Harry as well as that old Potions textbook ( a long lost edition, the only one describing a special potion, DD remembered to be of crucial importance). This Pensieve reveals the information necessary to understand an important background to a conflict between Order and someone in the Ministry or relations between some Death Eaters and - who knows.
I know, speculations not based on anything nor very clear , just a flash. Well, July is not so far away and will come earlier as thought of.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 2:33 pm (#2755 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Ooooooooooooooooo!
You're good, Detail Seeker. :-)
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 2:39 pm (#2756 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I'm wondering if Harry doesn't make it into NEWT Potions and has to have extra lessons from Snape like he did with the Occlumancy.... Don't know why the picture of that old book made me think of that... maybe because it looks like books in the Forbidden section of the Library.....
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 2:44 pm (#2757 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
I wondered that, too, Sarah. I thought perhaps Harry might be tutored by McGonagall. She did promise to coach him nightly if it were needed!
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 2:50 pm (#2758 of 2923)
Let it snow!
You know, someone mentioned Ron not needing Potions... Well, since we've only heard about him wanting to be an Auror too, not any other professions, he would have to have it....
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Steve Newton - Mar 8, 2005 2:52 pm (#2759 of 2923)
Librarian
I suspect that the book on the cover is just an artist's impression. If not, perhaps it has something to do with the ancient magic that protects Harry.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 8, 2005 2:57 pm (#2760 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
The covers could be mirror images, Nathan. If only we knew which of Moody's eyes was the magical one, we could confirm it from the back cover of OotP(if there is a canonical reference to which eye it is, I can't recall it at the moment).
I have a question that I hope someone can answer. Are the UK adult covers the same on the hard covers and paperbacks? My paperbacks of the first four books have the Hogwarts Express, the Anglia, Buckbeak and a Dragon.
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 3:05 pm (#2761 of 2923)
Olivia
Edited by Mar 8, 2005 2:24 pm
I Am Used Vlad, the only hardback cover I have is for ootp which has the phoenix rising out of flames, the paperback has now been produced and the cover is the same so I am presuming it is the same for the first 4 books.
Edit: Kindly remember that the pronoun 'I' is capitalized. I took care of it for you. Thanks.
Marcus
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 3:14 pm (#2762 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
You know, someone mentioned Ron not needing Potions... Well, since we've only heard about him wanting to be an Auror too, not any other professions, he would have to have it.... S. E. Jones
I agree with you, Sarah. Harry and Ron can always use the "we hated the greasy git's class anyway" line if they want to "save face" for not making N.E.W.T. Potions. But, they both do need to continue Potions study if they want to be Aurors. Ron also probably experiences a great deal of academic pressure from Molly, and we've seen Ron's desire to live up to his brothers' successes.
Even if this wasn't all an issue, JKR has said that we'll see plenty of Snape because he "is a gift of a character," so I am assuming that Potions will prove an important topic in HBP and that the Potions Master will continue to make Harry's (and probably Ron and Hermione's) life miserable.
I can't wait! :::rubs hands together gleefully:::
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Chemyst - Mar 8, 2005 3:22 pm (#2763 of 2923)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
My early thought on the UK adult cover was that the book was tattered because it had survived the explosion and was found in the rubble of the Godric's Hollow house where the Potters were in hiding. Then I wondered if they ever, as I often do, had any extra notes or letters slipped in between the pages. It would be rather poignant if a book from his parent's house could provide the clue or the potion recipe Harry needs to defeat their murderer.
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 3:28 pm (#2764 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
An interesting idea Chem... It would certainly be a strange choice on Rowling's part to have an old textbook as the sole artifact recovered from the rubble of Godric's Hollow... but it's an interesting thought nonetheless.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 8, 2005 3:30 pm (#2765 of 2923)
Flitwick supervising the Defense O.W.L. written test doesn't mean he was the Defense professor. It could just mean that he agreed to do it because the Defense professor had an accident or left for some other reason.
I like the idea that the US cover is a Pensieve of Harry's memory of what happened in Godric's Hollow. With all the green, it could be when Voldemort killed Lily, and the looks on Harry and Dumbledore's faces could be surprise because of exactly what happened or because of who else was there.
I really don't think JKR is going to make Snape the Defense professor, but she could do that and have Harry in N.E.W.T. potions with someone else. If not that, then I like the idea of Harry having a tutor for potions.
Regardless of where JKR goes with it, having a potions textbook on the cover would seem to indicate that we'll be seeing a lot more of Snape. I know Gina will be pleased about that.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 8, 2005 3:30 pm (#2766 of 2923)
I'm sorry, but I haven't the energy to read through the b'zillion new messages on this thread since the cover art was shown this morning. Can anyone make out the title of the book on the UK adult cover? I definitely cannot, but I have these new glasses, see, and....
Thanks.
Ciao. Barb
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 4:01 pm (#2767 of 2923)
The Title says: "Advanced Potion's Making"
So, that obviously means either Harry Ron or Hermione will be taking advanced potions! Woo Hoooo
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 4:01 pm (#2768 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
It's "Advanced Potion Making" by Libatious Borage. (we're not entirely sure of the spelling of the name, I gather.)
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Gina R Snape - Mar 8, 2005 4:06 pm (#2769 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Barb, it says "Advanced Potion Making" by Libatius Borage. You can see the covers a bit better here. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
As for what they tell us about HbP. Here's my thoughts:
I think the US edition definitely shows a pensieve. I believe DD will be taking Harry back in time to learn about some past events, because JKR said this book will give more answers than questions.
I think in the UK edition, they are travelling. I get the distinct feeling of motion when I look at the swirls of flames. And I don't think the pensieve and the flames covers are all that far apart---maybe even part of the same chapter in the book that is of high importance.
I believe the potions text is old and tattered. I suspect it might be Snape's old book. Or it might be an old version of the textbook that contains a potion no longer published in the newer editions. I think Potions and Snape WILL play a big role in this book (crosses fingers desperately!).
I also believe Harry will not get the grade he needs to enter advanced Potions. But DD will bend the rules and force Snape to accept Harry in his class anyway, which will add to his resentment of the boy.
But I also think we will learn a lot about the importance of potions in either the downfall of the Dark Lord or how he gained his seeming immortality. Or both...
I rather like this idea of Harry going back to THAT night at Godric's Hollow. It fits in with the whole DD taking Harry back to the past theme. I don't know, though, if Harry is capable of drawing that memory from his infancy.
Anyway, those are my thoughts so far! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee. This is FUN!
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Eliza - Mar 8, 2005 4:11 pm (#2770 of 2923)
I Am Used Vlad - "I just looked at the covers of all the books and noticed something odd. On the US versions of GoF, OotP and HBP, Harry has his wand in his left hand. Harry's right-handed."
I know this may just be my lack of observentness but where do we find out Harry is right handed?
Also, I am so jealous that these artists have gotten to read the book.
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Dumbledore - Mar 8, 2005 4:13 pm (#2771 of 2923)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Yayy!!! SO excited to come home from school to have this lovely surprise waiting for me.
As to my own interpretations, I have a lot of half-formed theories that have pretty much already been expressed by my fellow Potties(nice job in less than 24 hours!!)
However, I do think it makes sense that Harry would be able to extract sub-conscious images of the night at Godric's Hollow that he never even remembered having (such as the effect that the dementors had on him, that he was able to recall memories he never knew he had). Perhaps Dumbledore asks him to extract these memories into the pensieve to better find out what happened that night...
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Snuffles - Mar 8, 2005 4:16 pm (#2772 of 2923)
Olivia
Eliza, it says in PS/SS UK edition P64, Mr Ollivander says " Which is your wand arm?" "Er-well, I'm right-handed," said Harry.
I know I'm not I Am Used Vlad but I read the passage the other day so I knew where to look for it.
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The Willow Tree - Mar 8, 2005 4:18 pm (#2773 of 2923)
The British adult verion seems to me to be the most thought provoking of all three bookcovers. We know that Harrys stay at Privet Drive will be the shortest so far. JK told us that we should be asking 'why did voldemort not die'? rather than 'why did Harry survive?. What did voldemort do during the time of leaving school and then returning years later so transformed that hardly anyone recognised him as Tom Riddle? Could this have anything to do with 'Potions' he concocted, as well as other spells,charms etc. Maybe Dumbledore takes Harry to Spinners end(chapter 2,i think)to teach him advanced potions to help him defend himself against voldemort. I think potions is going to be VERY important in HBP. Also the book on the bookcover may belong to Dumbledore from when he was old a student himself.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 8, 2005 4:20 pm (#2774 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I like that idea Dumbledore. Harry remembered the flash of green light and Voldemort laughing even as far back as book 1, so it would make sense that Harry could grab that little bit of memory and the Pensieve could fill in the gaps with what is in his subconscious....
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mooncalf - Mar 8, 2005 4:22 pm (#2775 of 2923)
In SS, When Harry goes into the wand shop, Mr. Ollivander asks Harry which is his wand hand, and Harry replies that he is right-handed.
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karebear811 - Mar 8, 2005 4:26 pm (#2776 of 2923)
The Willow Tree, you just gave me an idea.
I do think it was some form of a potion that stopped Voldy, possibly the stopper of death that Snape mentioned in SS/PS. Could that be how Snape became a DE in the first place? Voldy knew Snape was very skilled at potions, and into dark arts, recruited him, made him one of the gang (something Snape seemed to be out of in his Hogwarts days) and had him make him stopper of death. Snape then did this early on, before he really realized what he got himself into with the DE and then went to DD for help to get out. He explained to DD the whole senario about the Stopper of Death, and probably how it works and such if DD didnt already know. Then he gave him some other useful info, and got back into DD's trust.
Hmmm, I'm gonna go post this on the Snape thread now.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 8, 2005 4:30 pm (#2777 of 2923)
I Am Almighty!
Eliza, Harry tells Ollivander that he is right-handed in SS/PS.
My current thoughts:
The facial expressions of both Dumbledore and Harry on the children's UK cover make me think that they are in the middle of a battle. If it is, they are probably fighting Voldemort. If it were anyone else fighting Dumbledore, the battle would probably be short-lived. I did not foresee a confrontation between Dumbledore and Voldemort in HBP, but now I wonder. Could this be a glimpse of Dumbledore's final scene?
The adult covers don't ever give anything important away, but then Harry continuing to study Potions, whether by making the grade or at the insistence of Dumbledore or whatever, would not exactly be a shocking revelation.
I find the green mist to be the most interesting aspect of the US cover, but have not decided what to make of it yet.
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 4:31 pm (#2778 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
This is great.
I knew the green color of the cover must be important, but Sarah connected it to Harry's vague memory of the green light, and now I really do wonder if that is what Harry and Dumbledore are seeing in the Pensieve--the night that Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow. That would explain the intense looks that the two of them seem to have in the illustration.
Oooh...I can't wait for July 16.
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T Brightwater - Mar 8, 2005 4:47 pm (#2779 of 2923)
The old book on the UK adult cover suggests a possible link between CoS and HBP - Tom Riddle's diary was slipped into a used textbook by Lucius Malfoy. Is it possible that
-the textbook is another of "Lord Voldemort's school things"? and has a nasty surprise for someone?
-some character will find something hidden in a used text? That points to Ron, I think, assuming he got into 6th year Potions, since he's the most likely to be using a secondhand text, unless...
-it's Neville's father's book and he has left some interesting information in it? I think it's unlikely (though not impossible) that Neville got into NEWT Potions, but he might offer the book to Harry or Hermione.
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Albus Silente - Mar 8, 2005 4:52 pm (#2780 of 2923)
All theories I thought of have already been mentioned. (it took me 1 hour to get them all through!!!) Well, anyhow, now that I have seen the covers- I like the British ones better- I'm nearly going mad. M A D ! I just can't wait for July 16!!! *pacing up and down her room* *butterflies in her stomach*
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Cuivienen - Mar 8, 2005 5:09 pm (#2781 of 2923)
One thing about the Potions book -- it's very old. Very, very old. Far too old for Harry to have bought it for NEWT Potions; he wouldn't buy something so old and decrepit when he could buy a new copy. It's probably either a library book (Restricted Section, most likely) or Ginny's or Ron's Potions book for the year.
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Eponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:17 pm (#2782 of 2923)
I don't think this has been mentioned yet. After they revealed the cover for HBP on the Today show this morning, Al Roker had a chat with Arthur Levine, Jo's editor of whom I am so jealous. Levine revealed a few tidbits that while aren't really new, might give us something new to talk about as well.
There is to be a new Minister for Magic - this much we knew, but it had never been specifically stated if it was going to be in book 6 or 7. We learn much more about Voldemort - perhaps we'll be getting a lot more about his backstory from a pensieve. No information revealed on whether Snape will be the Half-Blood Prince - Al Roker seemed a bit eager to know more about Snape. HBP will be an intense book, but with light-hearted moments - as OotP was as well.
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mike miller - Mar 8, 2005 5:18 pm (#2783 of 2923)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Chemyst - I really like your idea of the tattered old book belonging to either James or Lily. Perhaps it has something to do with what they did to earn a living since money was not their primary motivator.
The Willow Tree - I also like your idea of it having something to do with the Tranformation of Tom Riddle into Voldemort and how that might have involve dear Severus.
So many good theories...
I will say this about the American cover, it looks to me like Harry is amazed at what he is seeing while DD looks to be more concerned with how Harry reacts to the scene than the scene itself. Just my impression.
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Eliza - Mar 8, 2005 5:40 pm (#2784 of 2923)
Thanks all for clarifying the right-hand thing. I remember that now that you point things out. And the covers are soooooooooo cool.
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Springtime - Mar 8, 2005 5:46 pm (#2785 of 2923)
I think that there is a good possiblity that Snape could be the HBP Why else would they put a potion book on the front cover of the adult edition?
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DJ Evans - Mar 8, 2005 5:46 pm (#2786 of 2923)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
One thought that came to my mind is wonder if the items (the Potion Book & what we are assuming is a Pensive) are things that have been discovered at either Sirius' house or even from the room below the floor at Malfoy's house? Just a thought.
Deb
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 8, 2005 5:49 pm (#2787 of 2923)
Vlad, all the artwork I have seen shows Moody's right eye as being the magical one.
Best Regards, Nathan Zimmermann
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Weeny Owl - Mar 8, 2005 5:50 pm (#2788 of 2923)
Deb! Deb! Deb! I've missed you so much! ::much frantic waving::
I like that idea about it being from under the drawing room floor at Malfoy Manor. It could be something old of Voldemort's.
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DJ Evans - Mar 8, 2005 5:53 pm (#2789 of 2923)
Genealogy....Where you confuse the dead & irritate the living!
***waves ever so hard back at Weeny Owl**** I've been around, just haven't had anything to say.
But that's what I was wondering too Weeny Owl -- if it wasn't something of LV's?
Deb
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Madam Pince - Mar 8, 2005 6:15 pm (#2790 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I like the theories above about the Potions textbook belonging to someone from the past, rather than just being from the Restricted Section. I especially favor T Brightwater's idea that it belonged to Neville's father -- you're right, it's highly unlikely that Neville will get into Advanced Potions class, but it would be very like Neville to offer the book to someone else who could use it, since he can't. Harry could afford his own copy, so my guess would be that he gave it to Ron. Unless, of course, it's a very special copy that has some "recipes" in it that aren't to be found in more modern texts... I'll bet that particular textbook is not going to be your average run-of-the-mill Potions book.
karebear811, I really like your idea that Voldemort recruited a young Snape just to gain access to some sort of potion that he hoped would put a stop to death. I still haven't decided whether Snape's quote "...put a stopper in Death..." means that he can bottle Death itself, or that he can put a stop to death, but either way, it's probably something Voldemort would be interested in. And poor Severus, not being a member of any cliques at school, would be more than happy to finally feel wanted, I'd bet!
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TGF - Mar 8, 2005 6:22 pm (#2791 of 2923)
Anti-Voldemort Insurgent
Voldemort would've been around for a while by the time Snape graduated. Snape may be a potion expert, but I think we can say that Voldemort knows his potions. The potion he had Wormtail stir up to resurrect himself wasn't exactly what one would call unsophisticated. I can't imagine Voldemort needing or asking for a minion's help on any of the finer points of many forms of magic, let alone potionmaking.
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 8, 2005 6:23 pm (#2792 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
Hmmmm.... There has certainly been some food for thought today. Old Potions manual. Old Pensieve full of green light. Albus and Harry working together in a dangerous place. All very interesting.
Pulling together some disparate threads...
(1) From CoS we learn that the Malfoys have a secret chamber under their drawing room full of very valuable dark magic stuff.
(2) Also from CoS we learn that Dumbledore will never truly leave Hogwarts as long somebody asks for his help.
(3) Rowling has said there are major clues in CoS dealing with HBP.
(4) AK and the DeathMark both give off green light.
What do these things all add up to? An awful lot to think about. :-)
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Catherine - Mar 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#2793 of 2923)
Canon Seeker
What do these things all add up to? An awful lot to think about. :-) --Marcus
Marcus, I may agree with you yet again. Call Rita, she'll want an interview!
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Penny Lane. - Mar 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#2794 of 2923)
Earlier today some people thought that it might not be a pensieve - what if the US cover actually depicts a standard cauldron? We've heard descriptions before of potions that have mists rising off of them - perhaps Harry is actually mixing some sort of uber-potion.
Could it be that Dumbledore is teaching Potions, while Snape is the Defense teacher, and that's how Harry managed to get in?
A while back, someone mentioned that Ron also wants to be an Auror. He could have actualy changed his mind and decided that he wants to work as a teacher at Hogwarts, but is afraid to tell his friends or family. They are at the age where people often decide one thing, but don't tell their friends because they don't want to be different.
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green shoes - Mar 8, 2005 7:30 pm (#2795 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
Hello. I was just looking at the HBP adult british cover with magnification and a filter in my adobe photoshop program, and call me crazy, but it really looks like there is a name, possibly "Godric" where the torn off piece of cover is at the top. I don't know- could be overexcited imagination, but check it out. Awesome covers by the way, I am so pleased and excited! Peace!
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Gina R Snape - Mar 8, 2005 8:06 pm (#2796 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I opened the large version from Mugglenet and enlarged it further with my PhotoShop program. I searched and searched for any signs of writing. I found a couple of loops that could be an L, but nothing concrete enough to make a real guess. AAAAHHH!!!!
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Ponine - Mar 8, 2005 10:20 pm (#2797 of 2923)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
It is so weird how we all see these different things from these simple three pictures!! I love it!! My favorite was the UK cover for adults, as I considered it a clue, or gift for us, somhow (talk about conceited..). I immediately considered the potions book to have been young Tom's book, and although I have not really thought that far ahead yet, I think I like the suggestion of the book resurfacing from Malfoys Manor. As far as the children's UK version, I too thought that it looked like a shield or something to that effect conjured up by DD... Exciting stuff...
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Nicole Bloom - Mar 8, 2005 10:40 pm (#2798 of 2923)
What I find extremely interesting about the UK children's cover is that "Harry Potter" is in green with a blue background. On the UK children's cover for CoS, "Harry Potter" is also green with a blue background. None of the other covers are the same in this respect. PS in Harry in yellow with red background, PoA is Harry in yellow with purple, GoF is Harry in purple with red and OotP is Harry in red with yellow.
We know there is a connection between CoS and HBP. The same coloring is interesting because it is enhancing this connection. It is the first thing I thought of when I saw the cover.
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MoonRider - Mar 8, 2005 11:09 pm (#2799 of 2923)
WOW, Nicole----that's an EXTREMELY good catch! Good job!
.....FASCINATING!
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Mistress Gim - Mar 8, 2005 11:35 pm (#2800 of 2923)
Could it be that Dumbledore is teaching Potions, while Snape is the Defense teacher, and that's how Harry managed to get in? -Penny Lane.
That can't be. I remember reading somewhere - I think on the Lexicon - that someone who has a past of being a Death Eater can never be a Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. It's forbidden by the Ministry; Cornelious fudge knows of Snape's past - Snape did show his the Dark Mark. And anyway, who would take over as Headmaster? There are a lot of things involved with being the head of a school, so it's one or the other, usually.
I'll look for the essay and quote.
-Koto Asakawa
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2801 to 2850)
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Mistress Gim - Mar 8, 2005 11:45 pm (#2801 of 2923)
"Those Unpredictable Defense Against the Dark Arts Teachers" by Louis F. Badalament, II:
"My third points concerns Severus Snape. Snape Already Had His Fling At Defense Against The Dark Arts. It happened in Book Three, where Snape filled in as a Defense Against the Dark Arts substitute because Remus Lupin was 'unavailable.' I am making mention this, mainly, because we know from the fifth book that Snape has tirelessly applied for the full-time position year after year, and has always been denied it. Furthermore, there are those fans out there of the belief that Rowling is sure to make Snape into a full-time professor of Defense Against the Dark Arts in one of the last two books. This theory would've held more water with me, if not for the 'fling' Snape was granted in Book Three. It revealed nothing new about his character - nothing outstandingly astounding which would justify Dumbledore's turning him down for the position so determinately."
AND
"Besides, Snape is already multifaceted enough as Potions Master, Former Death Eater, Order Spy, Dumbledore Servant, Slytherin Head of House, One-Time Quidditch Referee, Dark Arts Expert, Potter Nemesis, Voldermort Foe, Hate-Filled Malinger, Pedantic Rule-Lover, Trauma-Inflicted Youngster, and Occulmency Expert. On one hand, I'm absolutely certain that Rowling will reveal still more about Snape's character in future books, it won't be in Defense Against The Dark Arts."
That didn't have what I had in mind, but I do remember reading about that Ministry rule bit; perhaps in one of the books? If anyone remembers, could you tell me?
-Koto Asakawa
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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2005 12:02 am (#2802 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I don't recall any Ministry rule... There's been all sorts of speculation.....
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Regan of Gong - Mar 9, 2005 12:34 am (#2803 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Thinking about that potions book on the recently released cover art AND people speculating that it belongs to Malfoys made me think that a Ministry raid might find the "secret room under the drawing room" at the Malfoy residence. All that dark arts stuff would surely incriminate someone else, and put Lucius away for longer! Maybe something about this was left out of CoS. I know it wouldn't be the main focus of the book, but it's just a thought that i thunk.
Also, did the websites with the cover art say the book was 608 pages long? That's longer than I thought, with JK saying it would be "quite a bit shorter".
Regan
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septentrion - Mar 9, 2005 1:10 am (#2804 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Hello all !
Sorry I don't have time to read all the new posts, I'm at work and overloaded with work to do. Yet I want to throw my two knuts, I just hope I'll add something new : DD always uses a wand to extract a memory from a pensieve, yet he doesn't hold a wand on the US cover. That object reminds me of Galadriel's mirror in Lord of the Rings. Perhaps, if not a pensieve, that thing (for lack of a better word) shows stuff that happened ?
The potions book reminds me of the debate around the steps Voldemort took to immortality. It has been discussed if a potion had been involved, especially one brewn by Snape. It enhances the idea of the importance of potions in HBP, doesn't it ?
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 9, 2005 4:17 am (#2805 of 2923)
Maybe Draco's Detour has something to do with the Pensieve and/or the book - a lot of people think it is not DD's Pensieve, but from the Malfoy's place.
It could be that the Potions book may have been kept on a bookshelf next to a copy of 'The Monster Book of Monsters'!
Aurora xx
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Professor Dumbledore - Mar 9, 2005 5:49 am (#2806 of 2923)
Quote: Thinking about that potions book on the recently released cover art AND people speculating that it belongs to Malfoys made me think that a Ministry raid might find the "secret room under the drawing room" at the Malfoy residence. All that dark arts stuff would surely incriminate someone else, and put Lucius away for longer! Maybe something about this was left out of CoS. I know it wouldn't be the main focus of the book, but it's just a thought that i thunk.
The First thing that came to my mind was that Harry would be taking potions this year. He must have been allowed into Snape's NEWTs class. As for the american version art, it doesn't really reveal anything. It is in royal purple letters as speculated though.
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Chemyst - Mar 9, 2005 6:47 am (#2807 of 2923)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
It could be that the Potions book may have been kept on a bookshelf next to a copy of 'The Monster Book of Monsters'! - Aurora
LOL. Pity the poor books doomed to share a shelf with the Monster!
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 9, 2005 7:06 am (#2808 of 2923)
Marcus, I may agree with you yet again.-- Catherine
I'll alert the media.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 9, 2005 7:21 am (#2809 of 2923)
I'm know someone has mentioned McGonnagall and Harry with potions in regards to the book on the adult version of the HBP cover.
That cover leads me to believe that Harry did not get an "Exceeds Expectations" on his OWL. I believe Harry will leave 4PD to take Potions from McGonnagall to get his potions work up to scratch so he can be in Snape's NEWT level potions. Otherwise, Harry will not become an Auror.
I guess the correct way of wording this is that the cover leads me to think that the idea above is what's going to happen.
Betelgeuse
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 9, 2005 8:07 am (#2810 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
I like the idea that Snapes potion skills is what Voldemort used him for. In fact maybe snape(while he was a DE) made the potions to keep voldemort alive! Now he's turned good for some reason and DD wants snape on his side because Snape made Voldemort invincable, maybe he can unmake his invincablity? I shudder to think they made any mistakes on the cover, I hope they knew what they were doing. Harry is right handed so it is kind of weird he is holding his wand in his left hand on US cover. Maybe he can use both hands when he needs to but is best with his right? Hopefully the artist was as an avid fan as the rest of us not to make the mistake. Im sorry I havnt gone through all the new posts but I hope my two knuts were not repetitious(sp)?(word)?LOL
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Eliza - Mar 9, 2005 9:36 am (#2811 of 2923)
I am pretty sure that Snape will not be the DADA teacher. There was a quote of JK's somewhere where she stated that Dumbledore feels that the DADA job would bring out the worst in Snape. So I really don't think that she would have Dumbledore risk it. Also, if Dumbledore was going to teach DADA or let Snape teach it, then he would have done so in book 5 to keep the ministry out of his hair. They said they would assign someone if he could not find a teacher. Also, I think Dumbledore will be way too busy with the war to take on teaching on top of his duties. So I think that we are still looking at a new DADA.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2005 10:04 am (#2812 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I think the 'wand in the left hand' thing is just for aesthetics. I mean, if it was in his right hand, it might not work as well in the picture. There's some scene in the CoS movie where he's holding the wand in his left hand so that they could get the wand in the shot with everything else and everyone picked that apart too. I don't think there's anything really there to pick, though.
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prof sprout - Mar 9, 2005 10:30 am (#2813 of 2923)
Edited by Mar 9, 2005 9:31 am
He is ambidextrous. (sp)
)
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GryffEndora - Mar 9, 2005 10:51 am (#2814 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Has anyone else noticed that Harry's scar seems to be inside a golden (flame color) triangle on his forehead on the UK childs edition? At first I thought I was seeing things, so I zoomed in and it's even clearer to me that the scar is inside a gold triangle.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 9, 2005 11:14 am (#2815 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oooh, I hadn't noticed that GryffEndora. I'll have to take a look later.
In the interview JKR had with Stephen Fry for the release of OOtP, she said DD had Snape teach Potions for fear that DADA would bring out the worst in him (Snape). We've no reason to believe there are any particular laws regarding any employment positions taken by ex-Death Eaters.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 9, 2005 12:23 pm (#2816 of 2923)
According to the Washington Post (style section/kids post) today, GrandPre has actually read HBP. (I always thought she was given a general idea and she just drew from that.) The article also specifically refers to the object on the US cover as a pensieve.
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Eliza - Mar 9, 2005 12:28 pm (#2817 of 2923)
I am sooooooooo jealous of GrandPre. I want the book!! NOW! NOW! NOW! ( As she stamps her foot and whines, greatly resembling her 4 year old son)
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GryffEndora - Mar 9, 2005 1:01 pm (#2818 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Yes, the today show had a clip/interview with her where she said she's read the book.
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Ladybug220 - Mar 9, 2005 1:34 pm (#2819 of 2923)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Mar 9, 2005 12:34 pm
I believe that she was able to read OOP before the masses as well so that she could do the chapter and cover art.
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Hem Hem - Mar 9, 2005 1:48 pm (#2820 of 2923)
Hey Everybody!
I haven't been around in ages, but being as my first post ever on the forum ---long, long, ago--- was in response to the title art for OotP, I figure I might as well pop in and say hello! Life is going great, and the forum seems to be doing great in my absense!
And the covers are wonderful! All of the details and motifs seem to elude to the idea that deep, fundamental questions in the series will be addressed! This is truly the first half of book seven.
And that pillair is absolutely the pillair of storge I know that Madame Pince recently posted that, but it was my first impression as well! Great minds indeed think alike.
Greetings to all--I may not be back again until the last week of June-- Hem Hem (aka Jackie)
PS-- My roomates think I'm nuts for having a countdown poster for HBP in my above my wall, with a post-it note that changes daily. I may not be a hard-core forumer anymore, but my HP books sure get lent out here in Jerusalem loads!
Edit: Humph, I seem to have lost my avatar in the past 7 months! I guess status apgrading will have to wait for another day....
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 9, 2005 2:12 pm (#2821 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
GrandPre is left-handed, so she draws Harry that way, no matter what the book say.
Yes, she reads the books early. But look at it this way, she still has to wait just as long as we do for the next book. When we finally get to read the book, she's already had it read for six months and is looking for the next one.
Plus she can't talk about it with anyone! Imagine how frustrating that has to be.
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Madam Pince - Mar 9, 2005 2:36 pm (#2822 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
****waves to Jackie!****
Somebody asked earlier if the number of pages of HBP had been posted -- it was listed on the Bloomsbury site as 608 pages. But as far as I know, no number of chapters yet. Someone else guessed that it might be 32 chapters because there are 32 extra pages of GrandPre's art (apparently enlargements of the chapter headings?) so I'd say that 32 is a very good guess. Looking at the other books, 608 pages would fit nicely into 32 chapters.
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Dumbledore - Mar 9, 2005 2:40 pm (#2823 of 2923)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Prefect Marcus, you keep us Potties sane!
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Penny Lane. - Mar 9, 2005 3:25 pm (#2824 of 2923)
Well, couldn't the artists discuss the books hypothetically on say... anonoymus web forums? ;-) *peers around suspiciously*
The more I look at the picture the less like a Pensieve it looks like to me.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 9, 2005 3:26 pm (#2825 of 2923)
This is so exciting!! Something to occupy our one-tracked minds. Woo hoo!
Thoughts on the three covers:
UK Kids'edition--Has anyone else noticed that Harry's scar seems to be inside a golden (flame color) triangle on his forehead on the UK childs edition? At first I thought I was seeing things, so I zoomed in and it's even clearer to me that the scar is inside a gold triangle. (GryffEndora #2814). Yesss! That's the first thing I noticed. The surrounding flames are red/yellow (not green), Harry's scar is all lit up (I couldn't really see the triangle business, but I'll take your word for it). So during this seemingly horrific battle that's going on, Voldemort is very, very near.
UK Adult edition--That potions book, it's either very old and holds some powerfully ancient formulas perhaps re-discovered by Snape to assist Tom in his immortality quest early on, or to keep Voldemort alive now. This would involve some serious complications involving Snape's current relationship with Voldemort. Is Snape a double or triple agent? Was it just early on that he helped Voldemort with a potion to "stopper death"? I like all of those ideas (some were mentioned earlier on this thread, they are not my own). Another possibility about that book is that it's not terribly old, just in lousy condition (**shivers slightly as we librarians despair of books in bad condition**). Why such poor condtion? Hidden under a floorboard, perhaps? This, too, was thought of by someone earlier, but makes a good guess.
US edition--The least fertile for clues as far as I'm concerned. It's a pensieve Harry is learning something new about the past. Since he's holding the wand, I'll take a stab that it was used to remove some of his own memory whisps (DD would be holding a wand if he was putting something in the pensieve). Someone earlier on suggested that through this we might learn exactly what happened on that night at Godric's Hollow from a first-hand witness--Baby Harry. I like this a lot. It could also be a peek at a Voldemort-induced possession episode that gives DD and Harry a look inside Voldemort's mind. I like this, too, but not as much as the first idea.
So, I've added nothing too original here, but added my support of some really great ideas already posted.
Ciao. Barb
EDIT--That potions book may have even more import. Was it a potion that was so crucial to Voldemort's near immortality magic and his surviving the re-bounded AK? Maybe. Was it a potion that brought him back to his mortal state in GoF? Absolutely! What a nice balance there would be if the potion thing were a key to Voldemort's very existence. Even more, what if the real solution to eliminating him is not in a grand battle (though of course, JKR would give us a doozy of a battle for excitement), but in something as seemingly mundane as a potion. Is this why DD worked so closely with Flamel? Is this why we hear about his work with dragon blood's 12 uses? Is this why Harry getting into a NEWT-level potions class was made an issue at the end of OoP? More questions that answers, as usual.
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green shoes - Mar 9, 2005 4:04 pm (#2826 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
Madame Librarian, you always have so many great theories!
The US edition cover seemed to be the least liked from most of the pottheads I've talked to. I quite like it, actually. I definitely think it is a pensieve, and I have several theories/ideas/hopes about what is happening in the scene. The green light makes me think DD and Harry are witnessing the night of Harry's parents murder, however, the more I look at it, the more it looks like DD and Harry about about to dive into it and...do...something? Doesn't it look like Harry is poised with his wand about to "attack" or perform magic? It seems like DD is holding onto Harry about to jump in with him.
I was speculating with my bro about what was happening on the cover, and this is wild, but hear me out:
What if the pensieve is DD's and it is very very old, say, from the beginning of Hogwarts. There are magic runes around the edge, and it seems to have belonged the the former headmasters as well,no? Okay, so lets say first of all Godric Gryffindor is the HBP, (what I have thought all along).
What if there is more than one pensieve in the magical world? (It would make sense, right?) I'm thinking about the plantiers in LOTR...annnd Godric and Salazar got into a fight, remember? No one ever said what happened, beyond Salazar leaving the school...SO--
Godric puts his memories of what happened into the pensieve now owned by DD, and salazar puts his memories in a pensieve now owned by the Malfoys. I think learning about the founding headmasters is going to be an important part of the book. We've heard very little about them, or what happened to them thus far. My idea/question is Is it possible that DD and Harry could enter into a memory through their pensieve while at the same time Voldemort and the DE's enter the same memory through the other pensieve? Could the pairs of people battle in this other world? What could be the consequences of such a battle?
I don't know if that made sense, but I often think of the DA's and the DE's battling in some sort of alternate magic universe such as this...any thoughts? Hope I didn't confuse too much. I think I am a little even. ;o)
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Madame Librarian - Mar 9, 2005 6:07 pm (#2827 of 2923)
green shoes, very intriguing (and just a bit cunfunding). Sort of a time travel/memory/wormhole/legilimency/occlumency process maybe. One snag--since the pensieve(s) operate by letting one review memories--things that have already happened--what would that mean about this battle between Godric's people and Salazar's side? Did it already take place and what we read in the HP saga is all flashback? I'm not saying this blows your theory because even my small brain sees a way out...
Doesn't DD tell Harry that pensieves help sort out one's excess thoughts? Thoughts, not just memories. Thoughts are not necessarily things that have already occurred. They could be about plans, wished-for future events, even a bit of prediction, whatever. I can't quite articulate how this distinction might make your idea work (small brain, remember?). I'll leave that to you.
Ciao. Barb
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Professor Dumbledore - Mar 9, 2005 7:21 pm (#2828 of 2923)
Oooh...you beat me to it. I hadn't read anything like that, but after I'd looked at it for a while, i figured it was the Pensieve (it had that odd carvings and cracks). Well, I think we can surmise that this must be dumbledore telling Snape's history or telling harry's parents's history. Or I could be totally wrong.
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 7:36 pm (#2829 of 2923)
Back in business
Good to hear of you Hem Hem!
The heck with the 1000 posts I didn't read in this thread, I'm way too eager to discuss of the covers (though I did read yesterdeay and today's post).
Let's compare a bit the covers with their previous numbers of their edition (I wish we had the backs as well):
US edition: Marie Grandpré does read the books and, I suspect, draw whatever please her. The main draw back for today is her pictures continue on the back of the books, which we don't have by now.
PS, Harry catching a snitch on his broom, Hogwarts with Fluffy and the forbidden forest with the unicorn
CoS, Harry getting out of the Chamber of Secrets by gabbing Fawkes tail
PoA, Harry and Hermione flying on Buckbeak, about to riscue Sirius
GoF, Harry holding the golden egg, Fleur, Krum and Cedric behind him, Sirius and an acromantula behind the maze, a crowd above them all (and there a Hungrian Horntail tail in the bottom of the cover, but we couldn't guess until we saw the back)
OoP, Harry in the DoM
CoS, PoA and OoP show the final scene represented, SS and GoF have a summary of the book. It's a shame she draw less details than before, these covers are getting less informative that they were. Anyway, it doesn't look like a summary, so it should be a scene near the end. I believe it's a pensive, maybe not Dumbledore's, though.
UK children edition: They change the illustrator for every book, I remember reading they don't read the book, they are told what to draw.
PS, Harry about to embark the Hogwarts Express at plaform 9¾, there's also a modern train at platform 10
CoS, Harry, Ron and Hedwig flying in the Ford Anglia, passing the Hogwarts Express in the country
PoA, Harry and Hermione, mounting Buckbeak on a full moon night
GoF, Harry about to catch the golden egg from the Hungrian Horntail's ... nest?
OoP, a phoenix rising above flames
Those covers are the less reveling, they picture an interesting scene somewhere in the book, only PoA show a scene from the climax. The back covers are uneven as well. HbP cover seems to be an important scene plotwise, Harry and Dumbledore fighting toghether against someone else have to be an imortant one. Notice they both look at us, Dumbledore looking worrysome, Harry looking affraid. Voldemort would be a good guess for who there looking at. It's likely near the end, but it could be anywhere in the book.
UK adult edition: There two version of these from PS to GoF, the first ones were black and white photo versions of the children books (a steam train, a empty Ford Anglia, an eagle with an horse rear and a dragon from a Chinese drawing). For OoP, they revamped the design and made new covers for all 5 adult books.
PS, a red stone
CoS, a bronze door on which two snakes are crafted
PoA, a keep on a little island in the middle of the sea
GoF, a goblet with a bleu flame within
OoP, a bird statue within a fire
The philosopher stone for PS, the entrance of the chamber for CoS, Azkaban for PoA, the Goblet of Fire for GoF and a pheonix for OoP. PS, CoS and GoF show an illustration of the title, PoA and OoP show a half of the title (because there's no humain being on any of the adult editions). Since the half-blood prince is a human being, the Advanced Potion Making book should be related to the half-blood prince. (Unless I'm off my rockers yet again)
If we take the three together, it seems Dumbledore is going to become closer to Harry, there will be a fight against Voldemort and the Half-blood prince is related to a Advanced Potion Making book (Harry will likely take his advanced Potions classes after all).
Edit: I corrected mistakes all over the post.
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 9, 2005 7:51 pm (#2830 of 2923)
Hi,
I've been studying the larger images of the three covers. I have thought and rethought:
1. US-Cover: My initial impression was the object was not a penseive. I'm not so sure anymore. It's definitely a neo-corinthian column, acting as a table or support. But, is the shallow dish a penseive? If it is, it's not the same one described in the earlier books. Therefore, it's a different one. If so, whose? I haven't got a clue, but it's a good question.
2. US-Cover: My first impression was a Hip! Hip! Hurray!, because DD and HP are working together. I hope that DD has gotten over or around his paranoia and is working with Harry to control LV's mental invasions.
My next impressions were of their faces. Harry looks like he's surprised. He's not afraid or anything like that, just surprised. DD on the other hand, appears to be concentrating on performing some kind of task. It's almost as though he is reaching into the dish filled with lots of tasty fish and one large piranha! :-)
3. UK-Childrens: First, as to Harry's scar, I played with my Adobe, too. To me, it's almost like two lightning bolts side-by-side. The one on the left is more orange-yellow; the one on the right is more whitish-yellow. However, it's close to the center of his forehead almost at his nose. :-(
I was also very interested in the flames surrounding them. To me, it seems that DD has just done this. It looks to me as though he swept his wand from above them both, around his right shoulder and down. His arm is now at the end of that huge circle, and is still glowing. If so, is this a scene from a battle in which DD and HP fight side-by-side?
Also, Harry's face is one of surprised alertness. He's not afraid, just very wary, very concentrated and trying hard to do something well.
Regardless, I like the theme of both covers. Both show DD and HP together. I think that's a critical part of HBP.
4. UK-Adult: I played with the image. There is a shadow within the torn out area near the top of the book. I think I see the letters "dor", as though hand-written in script. We know of one name ending in dor, namely Gryffindor. If this is Godric's book, then it's about 1,000 years old. That would explain its old and tattered appearance.
Well, that's it from the heartland. Wow! I just can't hardly contain myself. Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 8:15 pm (#2831 of 2923)
Back in business
Joanne -> Harry's face is one of surprised alertness.
Let's agree to disagree then, I think the inner end of his eyebrows are way to high to express anything but painful feelings.(edit:expecially his left eye, in fact both eyes seem to show a different expression ...)
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Hollywand - Mar 9, 2005 8:28 pm (#2832 of 2923)
Gryffindor
You know, looking at the US book cover, it looks to me as though someone (methinks Voldemort) is SPYING on Dumbledore and Harry. If you look at the image, The figures are part of the green mist. Dumbledore and Harry have no physical body depicted below the mist, so they are emerging images from the Pensieve. We are perhaps looking at Voldemort's stored thoughts. The tone of the mist would also suggest Voldemort and not Dumbledore's Pensieve.
I really like the DuPre expression on Harry's face. He looks like a very self-poessessed young man, intent on defeating the Dark Lord.
On the UK Children's version, I see a flaming phoenix shape right at Harry's scar. I think perhaps they are facing a heliopath, and Fawkes is casting a protective fire around Dumbledore and Harry. The emphasis on Harry's eyes is particularly stong---perhaps this signifies the emphasis on the magical power Harry has inherited from Lily's eyes.
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Joelle - Mar 9, 2005 8:30 pm (#2833 of 2923)
I remember someone mentioning GG putting his memories in the pensieve--which sounds a lot like the diary of Voldemort. Thus I think it would be odd if JKR repeated this idea. Other than that I think you guys have amazing analysis.
-Joelle
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pottermom34 - Mar 9, 2005 8:58 pm (#2834 of 2923)
Here's a theory maybe DD is helping Harry use the pensieve to teach him occlumency and legilimens, or he maybe Harry is seeing Voldemort's thoughts and they are trying to put them in the pensieve by taking them out of Harry's head. (sounds far fetched but I've learned anything is possible in these books)This way they can see what he may be up to.
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 9:12 pm (#2835 of 2923)
Back in business
Hollywand -> Dumbledore and Harry have no physical body depicted below the mist
I do see Dumbledore's robes continuing below the pensive, maybe my mind is playing me tricks.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 9, 2005 9:12 pm (#2836 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, I looked at it again and though I think the idea of them coming out of the pensieve is a VERY interesting one (first time I've seen that idea, actually), I don't think it is the case. To me it really feels like they are going INTO the pensieve. That DD is showing Harry something crucial, and perhaps revisiting it himself. More and more I like this idea of them going back together to the night of Voldemort's failed Avada Kedavra. But even if it's not, I'm certain DD is showing Harry something of crucial importance from the past. Of course, this is exciting as it means WE get to learn something crucial about the past!
Now, does anyone recall what JKR has said about us seeing that night at Godric's Hollow? I know she created the scene for the PS/SS movie. But I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that she's made mention of whether or not we will get to see what happened that night.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2005 9:31 pm (#2837 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Here's what she said about it on the Extras page of her site:
The Opening Chapter of Book Six
I have come close to using a chapter very like this in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ (it was one of the discarded first chapters), ‘Prisoner of Azkaban’ and ‘Order of the Phoenix’ but here, finally, it works, so it’s staying. And that’s all I’m going to say, but when you read it, just know that it’s been about thirteen years in the brewing.
How do we know, then, that this is where we find out about the past?
Opening Chapters of Philosopher’s Stone
There were many different versions of the first chapter of ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ and the one I finally settled on is not the most popular thing I’ve ever written; lots of people have told me that they found it hard work compared with the rest of the book. The trouble with that chapter was (as so often in a Harry Potter book) I had to give a lot of information yet conceal even more. There were various versions of scenes in which you actually saw Voldemort entering Godric’s Hollow and killing the Potters and in early drafts of these, a Muggle betrayed their whereabouts. As the story evolved, however, and Pettigrew became the traitor, this horrible Muggle vanished.
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RuthJ - Mar 9, 2005 9:33 pm (#2838 of 2923)
Hello all, This is my first post in months (too busy, & nothing new to contribute), but I'm enthralled by so many of the ideas lately.
I'm not sure this hasn't been mentioned....Has anyone considered that the potions book has no literal importance? As the many many theories on the book indicates, there could be thousands of meanings behind it, and that's without any new information from book 6. However, the UK's adult cover of OotP--a bronze phoenix rising from flames--had nothing specific to do w/ the plot or characters of the book; it was simply a representation of the Order. Fawkes never actually rose from the ashes, and other than the Order & its numerous connections to Dumbledore, the phoenix (the actual bird) had no role in guiding the storyline.
So...it's possible, even likely, that this potions book isn't a key element of the story. Maybe its only importance is as Harry's NEWT potions textbook (although that's definitely too mundane) or perhaps the use of one specific potion (as represented by the book) is a major plotline.
On another note, my sister thought the background of the UK children's cover looked like the sun, w/ its fire surrounding Harry & Dumbledore. I doubt that's it (too sci-fi) but interesting idea.
ps: & I'm so looking forward to the first chapter. oh, wow, I can't wait!
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Hollywand - Mar 9, 2005 10:02 pm (#2839 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Ruth. Here's an alternate suggestion: Bronze is a metal associated with alchemy, as is the Phoenix, so both of those images could be deeply associated with the overall series.
The violet book suggests the Dark Arts, as violet is the deepest color on the spectrum, at times out of our range of vision. For example, crows, birds that appear black to our eyes, are actually a deep violet that we cannot see. A very poetic reference in linking the Half Blood Prince Book to the Dark Arts.
Further, the author of the book Libalus Borage, has double entendre significance. Libavus was an actual historical alchemist, originating from Hungary. His specialty was studying the blood (thanks to Elanor and Archangel for finding these ideas I am posting here).
Borage is an herb with historical medicinal applications. Elanor pointed out that blood purification was one use of Borage, and Catherine found the great detail that Borage was put into wine to give warriors courage. Since courage is a key element to the Gryffindor House, and Harry's wand produces wine at the Triwizard wand test, I would submit that Rowling is weaving brilliant metaphors with language, and that the violet book on the Book Six cover is a tribute to her genius. Go Newt Scamander!
I looked at the DuPre image again. Harry and Dumbledore's figures seem disembodied. We can see a bit of the room architecture through the bottom half where Harry's body should be, and I don't think he's transparent yet. I think DuPre placed this new Pensieve on a pedestal to make the absence of the bodies apparent intentionally.
Gina, I think your suggestion that H/D could be transitioning into the Pensieve is plausible. One wonders, in fact, if the Pensieve could belong to Voldy or to Lucius, to Fudge, to Umbridge, to Seveus....I certainly hope not Severus, can you reassure us? ;-)
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Gina R Snape - Mar 9, 2005 10:11 pm (#2840 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh, I hope the pensieve DOES belong to Severus, Hollywand! So I'm not so sure I can offer you the sort of 'reassurance' you seek.
btw, it's Libatius Borage, not Libalus. Does that make a difference to your thoughts? Libatius sounds like 'libation' which certainly would include wine!
And thanks for looking up those quotes, Sarah!
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 10:16 pm (#2841 of 2923)
Back in business
Hollywand -> We can see a bit of the room architecture through the bottom half where Harry's body should be.
Hum, I don't see it. Maybe I need to get some sleep or to get a better scan. Where did you get yours?
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Hollywand - Mar 9, 2005 10:32 pm (#2842 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Tomoe, from the first post of the covers here on this thread. Search"children's edition". The Newsround, I believe. The images are all quite large. I understand the Mugglenet images are quite large, as well.
Thanks Gina, the name changes a bit from Latin to Hungarian and other languages.
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Magical Llama - Mar 9, 2005 10:33 pm (#2843 of 2923)
The American cover for the HBP is certainly telling -- what do you guys think?
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Regan of Gong - Mar 9, 2005 11:10 pm (#2844 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
"One wonders, in fact, if the Pensieve could belong to Voldy or to Lucius, to Fudge, to Umbridge, to Seveus"
"Oh, I hope the pensieve DOES belong to Severus, Hollywand!"
Is it ever specifically mentioned that the penisieve in Snapes office is NOT his, or that he DOES NOT own one?
Magical Llama, the cover is certainly better than what we got here in Australia for OotP, the US gets some kind of clue from the cover art. I think we get the UK editions over here.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 9, 2005 11:30 pm (#2845 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
We get the UK editions here in Australia Regan. I'm rather partial to the Bloomsbury covers, but I think it is more due to what I'm used to. Until I found the Lexicon last year, I had no idea what the US covers looked like!.
I have nothing to contribute on the analysis of the covers except to say that it's possible that JKR will use all 3 covers as a clue, like some have suggested.
Lizzy
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Mrdrama - Mar 10, 2005 1:52 am (#2846 of 2923)
I was looking at the UK Children's cover, and in the bottom, right hand corner there is something that looks different, almost like a face. It is possible that I am seeing things and just need a tall glass of butterbeer, but I am pretty sure that there is something there.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 10, 2005 2:27 am (#2847 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
I thought it was the rest of Dumbledore's cloak, but the lines of it just don't quite sit right.
There is more than one background colour on the UK childrens cover. Behind Harry is a Green background, but in the top rleft hand corner where there is a little black, I would have expected it to be Green.
Lizzy
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Regan of Gong - Mar 10, 2005 3:46 am (#2848 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
LOL! Yay, another Aussie! **Cheers loudly now he's found a friend!!** I only recently found this site too.
After OotP, I'm not sure whether we'll be able to find anything much on the UK covers. The US covers are so much better than what we have to put up with! But you never know...there might be something crucial that we're all missing...maybe the smoke is a 3D picture?! Quick, put your nose right up against the monitor and move slowly away...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Mar 10, 2005 3:57 am (#2849 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Whew! Lots of catching up! My computer has been down for over a week.
My take on the US cover... since I don't ever remember a description of a Penseive giving off light or a vapor, I think the basin may be an ancient stone caldron. It would fit well with the potions theories floating around here.
As to the UK children's cover it seems to me the dark spot at the lower right is the SOURCE of the flames, perhaps a heliopath or a dragon?
...toddles off for another cup of coffee and another look at the pictures...
Edited for clarity.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 10, 2005 4:48 am (#2850 of 2923)
The bottom right-hand corner looks like Dumbledore's robes to me.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"Those Unpredictable Defense Against the Dark Arts Teachers" by Louis F. Badalament, II:
"My third points concerns Severus Snape. Snape Already Had His Fling At Defense Against The Dark Arts. It happened in Book Three, where Snape filled in as a Defense Against the Dark Arts substitute because Remus Lupin was 'unavailable.' I am making mention this, mainly, because we know from the fifth book that Snape has tirelessly applied for the full-time position year after year, and has always been denied it. Furthermore, there are those fans out there of the belief that Rowling is sure to make Snape into a full-time professor of Defense Against the Dark Arts in one of the last two books. This theory would've held more water with me, if not for the 'fling' Snape was granted in Book Three. It revealed nothing new about his character - nothing outstandingly astounding which would justify Dumbledore's turning him down for the position so determinately."
AND
"Besides, Snape is already multifaceted enough as Potions Master, Former Death Eater, Order Spy, Dumbledore Servant, Slytherin Head of House, One-Time Quidditch Referee, Dark Arts Expert, Potter Nemesis, Voldermort Foe, Hate-Filled Malinger, Pedantic Rule-Lover, Trauma-Inflicted Youngster, and Occulmency Expert. On one hand, I'm absolutely certain that Rowling will reveal still more about Snape's character in future books, it won't be in Defense Against The Dark Arts."
That didn't have what I had in mind, but I do remember reading about that Ministry rule bit; perhaps in one of the books? If anyone remembers, could you tell me?
-Koto Asakawa
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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2005 12:02 am (#2802 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I don't recall any Ministry rule... There's been all sorts of speculation.....
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Regan of Gong - Mar 9, 2005 12:34 am (#2803 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Thinking about that potions book on the recently released cover art AND people speculating that it belongs to Malfoys made me think that a Ministry raid might find the "secret room under the drawing room" at the Malfoy residence. All that dark arts stuff would surely incriminate someone else, and put Lucius away for longer! Maybe something about this was left out of CoS. I know it wouldn't be the main focus of the book, but it's just a thought that i thunk.
Also, did the websites with the cover art say the book was 608 pages long? That's longer than I thought, with JK saying it would be "quite a bit shorter".
Regan
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septentrion - Mar 9, 2005 1:10 am (#2804 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Hello all !
Sorry I don't have time to read all the new posts, I'm at work and overloaded with work to do. Yet I want to throw my two knuts, I just hope I'll add something new : DD always uses a wand to extract a memory from a pensieve, yet he doesn't hold a wand on the US cover. That object reminds me of Galadriel's mirror in Lord of the Rings. Perhaps, if not a pensieve, that thing (for lack of a better word) shows stuff that happened ?
The potions book reminds me of the debate around the steps Voldemort took to immortality. It has been discussed if a potion had been involved, especially one brewn by Snape. It enhances the idea of the importance of potions in HBP, doesn't it ?
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 9, 2005 4:17 am (#2805 of 2923)
Maybe Draco's Detour has something to do with the Pensieve and/or the book - a lot of people think it is not DD's Pensieve, but from the Malfoy's place.
It could be that the Potions book may have been kept on a bookshelf next to a copy of 'The Monster Book of Monsters'!
Aurora xx
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Professor Dumbledore - Mar 9, 2005 5:49 am (#2806 of 2923)
Quote: Thinking about that potions book on the recently released cover art AND people speculating that it belongs to Malfoys made me think that a Ministry raid might find the "secret room under the drawing room" at the Malfoy residence. All that dark arts stuff would surely incriminate someone else, and put Lucius away for longer! Maybe something about this was left out of CoS. I know it wouldn't be the main focus of the book, but it's just a thought that i thunk.
The First thing that came to my mind was that Harry would be taking potions this year. He must have been allowed into Snape's NEWTs class. As for the american version art, it doesn't really reveal anything. It is in royal purple letters as speculated though.
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Chemyst - Mar 9, 2005 6:47 am (#2807 of 2923)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
It could be that the Potions book may have been kept on a bookshelf next to a copy of 'The Monster Book of Monsters'! - Aurora
LOL. Pity the poor books doomed to share a shelf with the Monster!
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 9, 2005 7:06 am (#2808 of 2923)
Marcus, I may agree with you yet again.-- Catherine
I'll alert the media.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 9, 2005 7:21 am (#2809 of 2923)
I'm know someone has mentioned McGonnagall and Harry with potions in regards to the book on the adult version of the HBP cover.
That cover leads me to believe that Harry did not get an "Exceeds Expectations" on his OWL. I believe Harry will leave 4PD to take Potions from McGonnagall to get his potions work up to scratch so he can be in Snape's NEWT level potions. Otherwise, Harry will not become an Auror.
I guess the correct way of wording this is that the cover leads me to think that the idea above is what's going to happen.
Betelgeuse
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 9, 2005 8:07 am (#2810 of 2923)
I am in the IT field.
I like the idea that Snapes potion skills is what Voldemort used him for. In fact maybe snape(while he was a DE) made the potions to keep voldemort alive! Now he's turned good for some reason and DD wants snape on his side because Snape made Voldemort invincable, maybe he can unmake his invincablity? I shudder to think they made any mistakes on the cover, I hope they knew what they were doing. Harry is right handed so it is kind of weird he is holding his wand in his left hand on US cover. Maybe he can use both hands when he needs to but is best with his right? Hopefully the artist was as an avid fan as the rest of us not to make the mistake. Im sorry I havnt gone through all the new posts but I hope my two knuts were not repetitious(sp)?(word)?LOL
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Eliza - Mar 9, 2005 9:36 am (#2811 of 2923)
I am pretty sure that Snape will not be the DADA teacher. There was a quote of JK's somewhere where she stated that Dumbledore feels that the DADA job would bring out the worst in Snape. So I really don't think that she would have Dumbledore risk it. Also, if Dumbledore was going to teach DADA or let Snape teach it, then he would have done so in book 5 to keep the ministry out of his hair. They said they would assign someone if he could not find a teacher. Also, I think Dumbledore will be way too busy with the war to take on teaching on top of his duties. So I think that we are still looking at a new DADA.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2005 10:04 am (#2812 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I think the 'wand in the left hand' thing is just for aesthetics. I mean, if it was in his right hand, it might not work as well in the picture. There's some scene in the CoS movie where he's holding the wand in his left hand so that they could get the wand in the shot with everything else and everyone picked that apart too. I don't think there's anything really there to pick, though.
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prof sprout - Mar 9, 2005 10:30 am (#2813 of 2923)
Edited by Mar 9, 2005 9:31 am
He is ambidextrous. (sp)
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GryffEndora - Mar 9, 2005 10:51 am (#2814 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Has anyone else noticed that Harry's scar seems to be inside a golden (flame color) triangle on his forehead on the UK childs edition? At first I thought I was seeing things, so I zoomed in and it's even clearer to me that the scar is inside a gold triangle.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 9, 2005 11:14 am (#2815 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oooh, I hadn't noticed that GryffEndora. I'll have to take a look later.
In the interview JKR had with Stephen Fry for the release of OOtP, she said DD had Snape teach Potions for fear that DADA would bring out the worst in him (Snape). We've no reason to believe there are any particular laws regarding any employment positions taken by ex-Death Eaters.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 9, 2005 12:23 pm (#2816 of 2923)
According to the Washington Post (style section/kids post) today, GrandPre has actually read HBP. (I always thought she was given a general idea and she just drew from that.) The article also specifically refers to the object on the US cover as a pensieve.
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Eliza - Mar 9, 2005 12:28 pm (#2817 of 2923)
I am sooooooooo jealous of GrandPre.
I want the book!! NOW! NOW! NOW! ( As she stamps her foot and whines, greatly resembling her 4 year old son) - - - - - - - - - -
GryffEndora - Mar 9, 2005 1:01 pm (#2818 of 2923)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Yes, the today show had a clip/interview with her where she said she's read the book.
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Ladybug220 - Mar 9, 2005 1:34 pm (#2819 of 2923)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Mar 9, 2005 12:34 pm
I believe that she was able to read OOP before the masses as well so that she could do the chapter and cover art.
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Hem Hem - Mar 9, 2005 1:48 pm (#2820 of 2923)
Hey Everybody!
I haven't been around in ages, but being as my first post ever on the forum ---long, long, ago--- was in response to the title art for OotP, I figure I might as well pop in and say hello! Life is going great, and the forum seems to be doing great in my absense!
And the covers are wonderful! All of the details and motifs seem to elude to the idea that deep, fundamental questions in the series will be addressed! This is truly the first half of book seven.
And that pillair is absolutely the pillair of storge I know that Madame Pince recently posted that, but it was my first impression as well! Great minds indeed think alike.
Greetings to all--I may not be back again until the last week of June-- Hem Hem (aka Jackie)
PS-- My roomates think I'm nuts for having a countdown poster for HBP in my above my wall, with a post-it note that changes daily. I may not be a hard-core forumer anymore, but my HP books sure get lent out here in Jerusalem loads!
Edit: Humph, I seem to have lost my avatar in the past 7 months! I guess status apgrading will have to wait for another day....
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Prefect Marcus - Mar 9, 2005 2:12 pm (#2821 of 2923)
"Anyone can cook"
GrandPre is left-handed, so she draws Harry that way, no matter what the book say.
Yes, she reads the books early. But look at it this way, she still has to wait just as long as we do for the next book. When we finally get to read the book, she's already had it read for six months and is looking for the next one.
Plus she can't talk about it with anyone! Imagine how frustrating that has to be.
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Madam Pince - Mar 9, 2005 2:36 pm (#2822 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
****waves to Jackie!****
Somebody asked earlier if the number of pages of HBP had been posted -- it was listed on the Bloomsbury site as 608 pages. But as far as I know, no number of chapters yet. Someone else guessed that it might be 32 chapters because there are 32 extra pages of GrandPre's art (apparently enlargements of the chapter headings?) so I'd say that 32 is a very good guess. Looking at the other books, 608 pages would fit nicely into 32 chapters.
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Dumbledore - Mar 9, 2005 2:40 pm (#2823 of 2923)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Prefect Marcus, you keep us Potties sane!
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Penny Lane. - Mar 9, 2005 3:25 pm (#2824 of 2923)
Well, couldn't the artists discuss the books hypothetically on say... anonoymus web forums? ;-) *peers around suspiciously*
The more I look at the picture the less like a Pensieve it looks like to me.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 9, 2005 3:26 pm (#2825 of 2923)
This is so exciting!! Something to occupy our one-tracked minds. Woo hoo!
Thoughts on the three covers:
UK Kids'edition--Has anyone else noticed that Harry's scar seems to be inside a golden (flame color) triangle on his forehead on the UK childs edition? At first I thought I was seeing things, so I zoomed in and it's even clearer to me that the scar is inside a gold triangle. (GryffEndora #2814). Yesss! That's the first thing I noticed. The surrounding flames are red/yellow (not green), Harry's scar is all lit up (I couldn't really see the triangle business, but I'll take your word for it). So during this seemingly horrific battle that's going on, Voldemort is very, very near.
UK Adult edition--That potions book, it's either very old and holds some powerfully ancient formulas perhaps re-discovered by Snape to assist Tom in his immortality quest early on, or to keep Voldemort alive now. This would involve some serious complications involving Snape's current relationship with Voldemort. Is Snape a double or triple agent? Was it just early on that he helped Voldemort with a potion to "stopper death"? I like all of those ideas (some were mentioned earlier on this thread, they are not my own). Another possibility about that book is that it's not terribly old, just in lousy condition (**shivers slightly as we librarians despair of books in bad condition**). Why such poor condtion? Hidden under a floorboard, perhaps? This, too, was thought of by someone earlier, but makes a good guess.
US edition--The least fertile for clues as far as I'm concerned. It's a pensieve Harry is learning something new about the past. Since he's holding the wand, I'll take a stab that it was used to remove some of his own memory whisps (DD would be holding a wand if he was putting something in the pensieve). Someone earlier on suggested that through this we might learn exactly what happened on that night at Godric's Hollow from a first-hand witness--Baby Harry. I like this a lot. It could also be a peek at a Voldemort-induced possession episode that gives DD and Harry a look inside Voldemort's mind. I like this, too, but not as much as the first idea.
So, I've added nothing too original here, but added my support of some really great ideas already posted.
Ciao. Barb
EDIT--That potions book may have even more import. Was it a potion that was so crucial to Voldemort's near immortality magic and his surviving the re-bounded AK? Maybe. Was it a potion that brought him back to his mortal state in GoF? Absolutely! What a nice balance there would be if the potion thing were a key to Voldemort's very existence. Even more, what if the real solution to eliminating him is not in a grand battle (though of course, JKR would give us a doozy of a battle for excitement), but in something as seemingly mundane as a potion. Is this why DD worked so closely with Flamel? Is this why we hear about his work with dragon blood's 12 uses? Is this why Harry getting into a NEWT-level potions class was made an issue at the end of OoP? More questions that answers, as usual.
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green shoes - Mar 9, 2005 4:04 pm (#2826 of 2923)
"DON'T PANIC."
Madame Librarian, you always have so many great theories!
The US edition cover seemed to be the least liked from most of the pottheads I've talked to. I quite like it, actually. I definitely think it is a pensieve, and I have several theories/ideas/hopes about what is happening in the scene. The green light makes me think DD and Harry are witnessing the night of Harry's parents murder, however, the more I look at it, the more it looks like DD and Harry about about to dive into it and...do...something? Doesn't it look like Harry is poised with his wand about to "attack" or perform magic? It seems like DD is holding onto Harry about to jump in with him.
I was speculating with my bro about what was happening on the cover, and this is wild, but hear me out:
What if the pensieve is DD's and it is very very old, say, from the beginning of Hogwarts. There are magic runes around the edge, and it seems to have belonged the the former headmasters as well,no? Okay, so lets say first of all Godric Gryffindor is the HBP, (what I have thought all along).
What if there is more than one pensieve in the magical world? (It would make sense, right?) I'm thinking about the plantiers in LOTR...annnd Godric and Salazar got into a fight, remember? No one ever said what happened, beyond Salazar leaving the school...SO--
Godric puts his memories of what happened into the pensieve now owned by DD, and salazar puts his memories in a pensieve now owned by the Malfoys. I think learning about the founding headmasters is going to be an important part of the book. We've heard very little about them, or what happened to them thus far. My idea/question is Is it possible that DD and Harry could enter into a memory through their pensieve while at the same time Voldemort and the DE's enter the same memory through the other pensieve? Could the pairs of people battle in this other world? What could be the consequences of such a battle?
I don't know if that made sense, but I often think of the DA's and the DE's battling in some sort of alternate magic universe such as this...any thoughts? Hope I didn't confuse too much. I think I am a little even. ;o)
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Madame Librarian - Mar 9, 2005 6:07 pm (#2827 of 2923)
green shoes, very intriguing (and just a bit cunfunding). Sort of a time travel/memory/wormhole/legilimency/occlumency process maybe. One snag--since the pensieve(s) operate by letting one review memories--things that have already happened--what would that mean about this battle between Godric's people and Salazar's side? Did it already take place and what we read in the HP saga is all flashback? I'm not saying this blows your theory because even my small brain sees a way out...
Doesn't DD tell Harry that pensieves help sort out one's excess thoughts? Thoughts, not just memories. Thoughts are not necessarily things that have already occurred. They could be about plans, wished-for future events, even a bit of prediction, whatever. I can't quite articulate how this distinction might make your idea work (small brain, remember?). I'll leave that to you.
Ciao. Barb
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Professor Dumbledore - Mar 9, 2005 7:21 pm (#2828 of 2923)
Oooh...you beat me to it. I hadn't read anything like that, but after I'd looked at it for a while, i figured it was the Pensieve (it had that odd carvings and cracks). Well, I think we can surmise that this must be dumbledore telling Snape's history or telling harry's parents's history. Or I could be totally wrong.
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 7:36 pm (#2829 of 2923)
Back in business
Good to hear of you Hem Hem!
The heck with the 1000 posts I didn't read in this thread, I'm way too eager to discuss of the covers (though I did read yesterdeay and today's post).
Let's compare a bit the covers with their previous numbers of their edition (I wish we had the backs as well):
US edition: Marie Grandpré does read the books and, I suspect, draw whatever please her. The main draw back for today is her pictures continue on the back of the books, which we don't have by now.
PS, Harry catching a snitch on his broom, Hogwarts with Fluffy and the forbidden forest with the unicorn
CoS, Harry getting out of the Chamber of Secrets by gabbing Fawkes tail
PoA, Harry and Hermione flying on Buckbeak, about to riscue Sirius
GoF, Harry holding the golden egg, Fleur, Krum and Cedric behind him, Sirius and an acromantula behind the maze, a crowd above them all (and there a Hungrian Horntail tail in the bottom of the cover, but we couldn't guess until we saw the back)
OoP, Harry in the DoM
CoS, PoA and OoP show the final scene represented, SS and GoF have a summary of the book. It's a shame she draw less details than before, these covers are getting less informative that they were. Anyway, it doesn't look like a summary, so it should be a scene near the end. I believe it's a pensive, maybe not Dumbledore's, though.
UK children edition: They change the illustrator for every book, I remember reading they don't read the book, they are told what to draw.
PS, Harry about to embark the Hogwarts Express at plaform 9¾, there's also a modern train at platform 10
CoS, Harry, Ron and Hedwig flying in the Ford Anglia, passing the Hogwarts Express in the country
PoA, Harry and Hermione, mounting Buckbeak on a full moon night
GoF, Harry about to catch the golden egg from the Hungrian Horntail's ... nest?
OoP, a phoenix rising above flames
Those covers are the less reveling, they picture an interesting scene somewhere in the book, only PoA show a scene from the climax. The back covers are uneven as well. HbP cover seems to be an important scene plotwise, Harry and Dumbledore fighting toghether against someone else have to be an imortant one. Notice they both look at us, Dumbledore looking worrysome, Harry looking affraid. Voldemort would be a good guess for who there looking at. It's likely near the end, but it could be anywhere in the book.
UK adult edition: There two version of these from PS to GoF, the first ones were black and white photo versions of the children books (a steam train, a empty Ford Anglia, an eagle with an horse rear and a dragon from a Chinese drawing). For OoP, they revamped the design and made new covers for all 5 adult books.
PS, a red stone
CoS, a bronze door on which two snakes are crafted
PoA, a keep on a little island in the middle of the sea
GoF, a goblet with a bleu flame within
OoP, a bird statue within a fire
The philosopher stone for PS, the entrance of the chamber for CoS, Azkaban for PoA, the Goblet of Fire for GoF and a pheonix for OoP. PS, CoS and GoF show an illustration of the title, PoA and OoP show a half of the title (because there's no humain being on any of the adult editions). Since the half-blood prince is a human being, the Advanced Potion Making book should be related to the half-blood prince. (Unless I'm off my rockers yet again)
If we take the three together, it seems Dumbledore is going to become closer to Harry, there will be a fight against Voldemort and the Half-blood prince is related to a Advanced Potion Making book (Harry will likely take his advanced Potions classes after all).
Edit: I corrected mistakes all over the post.
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 9, 2005 7:51 pm (#2830 of 2923)
Hi,
I've been studying the larger images of the three covers. I have thought and rethought:
1. US-Cover: My initial impression was the object was not a penseive. I'm not so sure anymore. It's definitely a neo-corinthian column, acting as a table or support. But, is the shallow dish a penseive? If it is, it's not the same one described in the earlier books. Therefore, it's a different one. If so, whose? I haven't got a clue, but it's a good question.
2. US-Cover: My first impression was a Hip! Hip! Hurray!, because DD and HP are working together. I hope that DD has gotten over or around his paranoia and is working with Harry to control LV's mental invasions.
My next impressions were of their faces. Harry looks like he's surprised. He's not afraid or anything like that, just surprised. DD on the other hand, appears to be concentrating on performing some kind of task. It's almost as though he is reaching into the dish filled with lots of tasty fish and one large piranha! :-)
3. UK-Childrens: First, as to Harry's scar, I played with my Adobe, too. To me, it's almost like two lightning bolts side-by-side. The one on the left is more orange-yellow; the one on the right is more whitish-yellow. However, it's close to the center of his forehead almost at his nose. :-(
I was also very interested in the flames surrounding them. To me, it seems that DD has just done this. It looks to me as though he swept his wand from above them both, around his right shoulder and down. His arm is now at the end of that huge circle, and is still glowing. If so, is this a scene from a battle in which DD and HP fight side-by-side?
Also, Harry's face is one of surprised alertness. He's not afraid, just very wary, very concentrated and trying hard to do something well.
Regardless, I like the theme of both covers. Both show DD and HP together. I think that's a critical part of HBP.
4. UK-Adult: I played with the image. There is a shadow within the torn out area near the top of the book. I think I see the letters "dor", as though hand-written in script. We know of one name ending in dor, namely Gryffindor. If this is Godric's book, then it's about 1,000 years old. That would explain its old and tattered appearance.
Well, that's it from the heartland. Wow! I just can't hardly contain myself. Accio, Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 8:15 pm (#2831 of 2923)
Back in business
Joanne -> Harry's face is one of surprised alertness.
Let's agree to disagree then, I think the inner end of his eyebrows are way to high to express anything but painful feelings.(edit:expecially his left eye, in fact both eyes seem to show a different expression ...)
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Hollywand - Mar 9, 2005 8:28 pm (#2832 of 2923)
Gryffindor
You know, looking at the US book cover, it looks to me as though someone (methinks Voldemort) is SPYING on Dumbledore and Harry. If you look at the image, The figures are part of the green mist. Dumbledore and Harry have no physical body depicted below the mist, so they are emerging images from the Pensieve. We are perhaps looking at Voldemort's stored thoughts. The tone of the mist would also suggest Voldemort and not Dumbledore's Pensieve.
I really like the DuPre expression on Harry's face. He looks like a very self-poessessed young man, intent on defeating the Dark Lord.
On the UK Children's version, I see a flaming phoenix shape right at Harry's scar. I think perhaps they are facing a heliopath, and Fawkes is casting a protective fire around Dumbledore and Harry. The emphasis on Harry's eyes is particularly stong---perhaps this signifies the emphasis on the magical power Harry has inherited from Lily's eyes.
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Joelle - Mar 9, 2005 8:30 pm (#2833 of 2923)
I remember someone mentioning GG putting his memories in the pensieve--which sounds a lot like the diary of Voldemort. Thus I think it would be odd if JKR repeated this idea. Other than that I think you guys have amazing analysis.
-Joelle
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pottermom34 - Mar 9, 2005 8:58 pm (#2834 of 2923)
Here's a theory maybe DD is helping Harry use the pensieve to teach him occlumency and legilimens, or he maybe Harry is seeing Voldemort's thoughts and they are trying to put them in the pensieve by taking them out of Harry's head. (sounds far fetched but I've learned anything is possible in these books)This way they can see what he may be up to.
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 9:12 pm (#2835 of 2923)
Back in business
Hollywand -> Dumbledore and Harry have no physical body depicted below the mist
I do see Dumbledore's robes continuing below the pensive, maybe my mind is playing me tricks.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 9, 2005 9:12 pm (#2836 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, I looked at it again and though I think the idea of them coming out of the pensieve is a VERY interesting one (first time I've seen that idea, actually), I don't think it is the case. To me it really feels like they are going INTO the pensieve. That DD is showing Harry something crucial, and perhaps revisiting it himself. More and more I like this idea of them going back together to the night of Voldemort's failed Avada Kedavra. But even if it's not, I'm certain DD is showing Harry something of crucial importance from the past. Of course, this is exciting as it means WE get to learn something crucial about the past!
Now, does anyone recall what JKR has said about us seeing that night at Godric's Hollow? I know she created the scene for the PS/SS movie. But I have this nagging feeling in the back of my mind that she's made mention of whether or not we will get to see what happened that night.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 9, 2005 9:31 pm (#2837 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Here's what she said about it on the Extras page of her site:
The Opening Chapter of Book Six
I have come close to using a chapter very like this in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ (it was one of the discarded first chapters), ‘Prisoner of Azkaban’ and ‘Order of the Phoenix’ but here, finally, it works, so it’s staying. And that’s all I’m going to say, but when you read it, just know that it’s been about thirteen years in the brewing.
How do we know, then, that this is where we find out about the past?
Opening Chapters of Philosopher’s Stone
There were many different versions of the first chapter of ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ and the one I finally settled on is not the most popular thing I’ve ever written; lots of people have told me that they found it hard work compared with the rest of the book. The trouble with that chapter was (as so often in a Harry Potter book) I had to give a lot of information yet conceal even more. There were various versions of scenes in which you actually saw Voldemort entering Godric’s Hollow and killing the Potters and in early drafts of these, a Muggle betrayed their whereabouts. As the story evolved, however, and Pettigrew became the traitor, this horrible Muggle vanished.
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RuthJ - Mar 9, 2005 9:33 pm (#2838 of 2923)
Hello all, This is my first post in months (too busy, & nothing new to contribute), but I'm enthralled by so many of the ideas lately.
I'm not sure this hasn't been mentioned....Has anyone considered that the potions book has no literal importance? As the many many theories on the book indicates, there could be thousands of meanings behind it, and that's without any new information from book 6. However, the UK's adult cover of OotP--a bronze phoenix rising from flames--had nothing specific to do w/ the plot or characters of the book; it was simply a representation of the Order. Fawkes never actually rose from the ashes, and other than the Order & its numerous connections to Dumbledore, the phoenix (the actual bird) had no role in guiding the storyline.
So...it's possible, even likely, that this potions book isn't a key element of the story. Maybe its only importance is as Harry's NEWT potions textbook (although that's definitely too mundane) or perhaps the use of one specific potion (as represented by the book) is a major plotline.
On another note, my sister thought the background of the UK children's cover looked like the sun, w/ its fire surrounding Harry & Dumbledore. I doubt that's it (too sci-fi) but interesting idea.
ps: & I'm so looking forward to the first chapter. oh, wow, I can't wait!
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Hollywand - Mar 9, 2005 10:02 pm (#2839 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Hi Ruth. Here's an alternate suggestion: Bronze is a metal associated with alchemy, as is the Phoenix, so both of those images could be deeply associated with the overall series.
The violet book suggests the Dark Arts, as violet is the deepest color on the spectrum, at times out of our range of vision. For example, crows, birds that appear black to our eyes, are actually a deep violet that we cannot see. A very poetic reference in linking the Half Blood Prince Book to the Dark Arts.
Further, the author of the book Libalus Borage, has double entendre significance. Libavus was an actual historical alchemist, originating from Hungary. His specialty was studying the blood (thanks to Elanor and Archangel for finding these ideas I am posting here).
Borage is an herb with historical medicinal applications. Elanor pointed out that blood purification was one use of Borage, and Catherine found the great detail that Borage was put into wine to give warriors courage. Since courage is a key element to the Gryffindor House, and Harry's wand produces wine at the Triwizard wand test, I would submit that Rowling is weaving brilliant metaphors with language, and that the violet book on the Book Six cover is a tribute to her genius. Go Newt Scamander!
I looked at the DuPre image again. Harry and Dumbledore's figures seem disembodied. We can see a bit of the room architecture through the bottom half where Harry's body should be, and I don't think he's transparent yet. I think DuPre placed this new Pensieve on a pedestal to make the absence of the bodies apparent intentionally.
Gina, I think your suggestion that H/D could be transitioning into the Pensieve is plausible. One wonders, in fact, if the Pensieve could belong to Voldy or to Lucius, to Fudge, to Umbridge, to Seveus....I certainly hope not Severus, can you reassure us? ;-)
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Gina R Snape - Mar 9, 2005 10:11 pm (#2840 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh, I hope the pensieve DOES belong to Severus, Hollywand! So I'm not so sure I can offer you the sort of 'reassurance' you seek.
btw, it's Libatius Borage, not Libalus. Does that make a difference to your thoughts? Libatius sounds like 'libation' which certainly would include wine!
And thanks for looking up those quotes, Sarah!
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Tomoé - Mar 9, 2005 10:16 pm (#2841 of 2923)
Back in business
Hollywand -> We can see a bit of the room architecture through the bottom half where Harry's body should be.
Hum, I don't see it. Maybe I need to get some sleep or to get a better scan. Where did you get yours?
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Hollywand - Mar 9, 2005 10:32 pm (#2842 of 2923)
Gryffindor
Tomoe, from the first post of the covers here on this thread. Search"children's edition". The Newsround, I believe. The images are all quite large. I understand the Mugglenet images are quite large, as well.
Thanks Gina, the name changes a bit from Latin to Hungarian and other languages.
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Magical Llama - Mar 9, 2005 10:33 pm (#2843 of 2923)
The American cover for the HBP is certainly telling -- what do you guys think?
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Regan of Gong - Mar 9, 2005 11:10 pm (#2844 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
"One wonders, in fact, if the Pensieve could belong to Voldy or to Lucius, to Fudge, to Umbridge, to Seveus"
"Oh, I hope the pensieve DOES belong to Severus, Hollywand!"
Is it ever specifically mentioned that the penisieve in Snapes office is NOT his, or that he DOES NOT own one?
Magical Llama, the cover is certainly better than what we got here in Australia for OotP, the US gets some kind of clue from the cover art. I think we get the UK editions over here.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 9, 2005 11:30 pm (#2845 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
We get the UK editions here in Australia Regan. I'm rather partial to the Bloomsbury covers, but I think it is more due to what I'm used to. Until I found the Lexicon last year, I had no idea what the US covers looked like!.
I have nothing to contribute on the analysis of the covers except to say that it's possible that JKR will use all 3 covers as a clue, like some have suggested.
Lizzy
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Mrdrama - Mar 10, 2005 1:52 am (#2846 of 2923)
I was looking at the UK Children's cover, and in the bottom, right hand corner there is something that looks different, almost like a face. It is possible that I am seeing things and just need a tall glass of butterbeer, but I am pretty sure that there is something there.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 10, 2005 2:27 am (#2847 of 2923)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
I thought it was the rest of Dumbledore's cloak, but the lines of it just don't quite sit right.
There is more than one background colour on the UK childrens cover. Behind Harry is a Green background, but in the top rleft hand corner where there is a little black, I would have expected it to be Green.
Lizzy
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Regan of Gong - Mar 10, 2005 3:46 am (#2848 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
LOL! Yay, another Aussie! **Cheers loudly now he's found a friend!!** I only recently found this site too.
After OotP, I'm not sure whether we'll be able to find anything much on the UK covers. The US covers are so much better than what we have to put up with! But you never know...there might be something crucial that we're all missing...maybe the smoke is a 3D picture?! Quick, put your nose right up against the monitor and move slowly away...
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Mar 10, 2005 3:57 am (#2849 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Whew! Lots of catching up! My computer has been down for over a week.
My take on the US cover... since I don't ever remember a description of a Penseive giving off light or a vapor, I think the basin may be an ancient stone caldron. It would fit well with the potions theories floating around here.
As to the UK children's cover it seems to me the dark spot at the lower right is the SOURCE of the flames, perhaps a heliopath or a dragon?
...toddles off for another cup of coffee and another look at the pictures...
Edited for clarity.
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Weeny Owl - Mar 10, 2005 4:48 am (#2850 of 2923)
The bottom right-hand corner looks like Dumbledore's robes to me.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2851 to 2900)
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septentrion - Mar 10, 2005 5:25 am (#2851 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I agree with you Weeny about that bit of black being DD's robe.
You folks have produced great theories since yesterday ! Just a thought : wouldn't Harry show more emotions if he were to delve into a pensieve showing his parent's murder ? That scene looks more a teaching scene to me, as if Dumbledore was teaching something involving that pensieve/thing to Harry.
BTW welcome back Jackie ! How is Jerusalem ? you can answer me on the chat thread.
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mononoke - Mar 10, 2005 6:17 am (#2852 of 2923)
About US version,my first impression is DD going to show Harry something ,that's why Harry's face is so concentrated.OR send Harry somewhere, because ,look how Harry's holding his wand and his face,to me it felt like he prepared to jump in ...pensieve??? or maybe both of them prepared to jump in...**confusing**
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Eliza - Mar 10, 2005 11:38 am (#2853 of 2923)
I think that what they are looking at in the pensieve is the night of Voldemort's return to power. The green light could be the death of Cedric. It would be important for DD to see that night firsthand in order to help decide the best way to defeat Voldemort. Remember that he was avoiding Harry in OoP so this would be his first real chance to take a look at that night. To me Harry looks like a person who is having to relive something that he would rather not and DD looks like the one who is learning.
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the7eagle - Mar 10, 2005 11:44 am (#2854 of 2923)
In reading through the last 25 posts, what stood out for me as interesting was that someone mentioning Dumbledore (on the UK Children cover) looking a little worried.
And the suggestion was that Voldemort may be attacking, hence Dumbledore being worried.
I, on the contary don't think it may be Voldemort, because Dumbledore was not worried or scared of him in the Ministry battle.
Who than can make Dumbledore worried, maybe the Half-Blood Prince. If Godric Griffindor is the HBP, I see no reason for him to be worried. But who else is powerful enough to rival Dumbledore's powers besides Voldemort. For a brief moment I flirted with the idea of Salalzar Slytherin, but have nothing to support it.
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Ponine - Mar 10, 2005 11:50 am (#2855 of 2923)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I know this might be a silly question, but how exactly do we know that it is Dumbledore on the cover of the UK edition? As far as I am concerned, he looks a tad festively plump, much more than DD is (in my head, anyways). Could we entertain the notion that it might be - Moody, or someone else? (Covering head with arms, waiting for dungbombs)
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Madam Pince - Mar 10, 2005 11:57 am (#2856 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Is it ever specifically mentioned that the penisieve in Snapes office is NOT his, or that he DOES NOT own one? --Regan of Gong
I don't think it's ever specifically said that Snape DOES NOT own a pensieve, but I think we can infer it, because in OoP in "Occlumency," when Harry comes to Snape's office for lessons, it says "Harry's attention was drawn toward the desk, however, where a shallow stone basin engraved with runes and symbols lay in a pool of candlelight. Harry recognized it at once -- Dumbledore's Pensieve."
Then later in "Snape's Worst Memory," it says "Snape was standing with his back to Harry, removing, as usual, certain of his thoughts and placing them carefully in Dumbledore's Pensieve."
I could've sworn I read somewhere that Snape says he borrowed the pensieve from Dumbledore, but I can't find the reference anywhere.
Hmmmmmmm....I've looked at the GrandPre cover again, but I can't see any room architecture on the right side where Harry's robes should be. I can see a bit of vertical green color -- which is also on the left side but to a lesser extent. It looks to me like part of "whatever" that green vapor is, just sort of "dripping" off the edge of the Pensieve. I don't get the impression that Harry and Dumbledore are disembodied. I think it's just GrandPre's artistic style to have her subjects kind of rising out of a swirling background color -- she used the same technique on the OoP cover, too. Gives a kind of foggy/misty/mysterious tone to the whole thing, maybe. Anyway, who knows? Just my take...
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Tomoé - Mar 10, 2005 12:39 pm (#2857 of 2923)
Back in business
Ponine -> how exactly do we know that it is Dumbledore on the cover of the UK edition?
His half-moon glasses betrayed him. ^_~
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Mrs Brisbee - Mar 10, 2005 2:22 pm (#2858 of 2923)
Like Ponine, I wasn't sure it was Dumbledore until I noticed the glasses. He's sort of a Generic Wizard Guy. His nose is also very short and straight rather than long and crooked. Oh well, artistic license I guess.
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Norbert not a common welsh green - Mar 10, 2005 2:30 pm (#2859 of 2923)
HBP, Book cover
The cover for HBP was released lately (The one for the UK). What do people think of it? What about clues for the plot? For those who haven't seen it yet it shows Harry And Dumbeldore with wands out sourounded by rings of fire.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Mar 10, 2005 2:30 pm (#2860 of 2923)
No day but Today
Well I think that its really pretty in terms of the colors. I also think that it means that Dumbledore will be essential to the main plot. I'm not sure how though.
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So Sirius - Mar 10, 2005 7:06 pm (#2861 of 2923)
The only conclusion I can really come to, based on the covers, is that Harry and Dumbledore are going to fight together. In SS Snape said something to the effect that potions was stronger or more useful than wands, but it looks like they're going to use both, somehow.
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Jo S - Mar 10, 2005 9:50 pm (#2862 of 2923)
On page 467 of the British edition (chapter 24 - Occlumency) it says that there was " a shallow stone basin engraved with runes and symbols .... Harry recognised it at once - It was Dumbledores pensieve" On page562 it refers to Snape putting memories into Dumbledores pensieve. I cant find a reference about Snape acknowledging that he had borrowed Dumbledors pensieve. A good question is why did dumbledore lend Snape the pensieve. It seems to me to be a fairly personal object if it is used to store memories. Why would Snape store his memories (especially his worst and most humiliating memories) in Dumbledores pensieve,where Dumbledore could see them. Perhaps they both have pensieves which to Harry appear identical?? However Snape could be storing memories for Dumbledore which he considers to be important information for Dumbledore to know in fighting Voldemort! Just a theory which I have made up as i went
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Matt Allair - Mar 10, 2005 10:25 pm (#2863 of 2923)
'Mischief Managed.......Not! (Nox)'
Hello Everyone, I can't add much more to all the observations that have been made about the covers, just two points.
Someone, many posts ago, commented that Dumbledore on the UK cover of HBP looked terribly angry. That isn't my interpretation, Dumbledore seems very focused and intense on the UK cover and Harry looks like great on the UK cover, like a man who's come of age!!
My other observation is with how the artist's are presenting Harry on the covers, both the American Grand Pre cover and the UK cover. Is it just me or are artists starting to represent their interpretation of Harry with a visual nod towards Daniel Radcliffe? Interesting.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 10, 2005 10:33 pm (#2864 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I don't know if GrandPre is giving a nod to Radcliffe or not. I think old Danny boy looked just like Harry from the cover of GoF when he was cast in the first movie. However, the cover was drawn long before casting even began, if I remember my trivia right.....
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Stringer - Mar 10, 2005 10:50 pm (#2865 of 2923)
I am wondering,on the US cover, if Harry is looking into a pensieve, why does Harry have his wand at the ready? He would be looking at the past from a safe perspective. Could this be a clue as to the ownership of the pensieve?
Wouldn't it be great if the Malfoy's house were located at Spinner's End, and after Lucius' arrest they found his pensieve. What an amazing amount of information could be stored there. We would also get a chance to see more of Narcissa, which JK stated we would.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Mar 10, 2005 10:54 pm (#2866 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Wouldn't it be great if the Malfoy's house were located at Spinner's End,..." Now that idea merits some thought. I rather like it.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 10, 2005 10:56 pm (#2867 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Ooh, so Malfoy's manor could be Spinner's End.... That's an intriguing thought.
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Magical Llama - Mar 11, 2005 12:03 am (#2868 of 2923)
The cover for HBP was released lately (The one for the UK). What do people think of it? What about clues for the plot? For those who haven't seen it yet it shows Harry And Dumbledore with wands out surrounded by rings of fire.
I think we should all expect things to go Voldemort's way in the HBP. This will most likely be the darkest, and the most pessimistic, book in the series.
Curse my curiosity. I now deeply regret having taken a peek at the UK cover for the HBP. First of all, I hate the way in which Dumbledore and Harry are drawn. Harry and Dumbledore reek of cliché' fantasy in this picture which angers me. Harry Potter is not cliché' fantasy! Secondly, the cover is too revealing. It seems to me that there will be an epic fight in which Dumbledore will exert a tremendous amount of power and then probably die. *Llama cries in the corner*
Eliza wrote: To me Harry looks like a person who is having to relive something that he would rather not and DD looks like the one who is learning.
I like that idea. =)~
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 11, 2005 2:25 am (#2869 of 2923)
I agree with Eliza too. I hope it is about the beginning. Let's not forget that the first chapter has been waiting 13 years to see the world. With each book we have had a flashback, hopefully this will shed great amounts of (green) light on what happened in Godric's Hollow. I seem to remember something about learning a lot more about Lily Potter and Harry's eyes.
Maybe - ooh! - the old potions book is old Evans property stored under a loose floorboard, or a creaky stair, in Privet Drive!
Aurora xx
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septentrion - Mar 11, 2005 2:51 am (#2870 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
There's news on mugglenet saying images of the back covers of HBP won't be released before July 16th because they reveal too much of the plot. That make them still more interesting, no ? I hope we'll get at least some glimpses of the synopses (showing a hoping face)
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Her-melanie - Mar 11, 2005 6:12 am (#2871 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I bet the Half-Blood Prince is on the back.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 11, 2005 6:20 am (#2872 of 2923)
I think that what they are looking at in the pensieve is the night of Voldemort's return to power. The green light could be the death of Cedric.
Or maybe they are looking in on the night Harry's parents were killed.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 11, 2005 7:15 am (#2873 of 2923)
"Maybe - ooh! - the old potions book is old Evans property stored under a loose floorboard, or a creaky stair, in Privet Drive! " -Aurora
That along with the Malfoy's mansion at Spinners End are the most intriguing ideas I've seen in quite a while. Thanks for the mind food!
Betelgeuse
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Tomoé - Mar 11, 2005 10:01 am (#2874 of 2923)
Back in business
Why Harry have his wand ready above the Pensieve, but not Dumbledore, maybe Harry finally learn how to use one. (Yoohoo!)
Now, why did Dumbledore lent his Pensieve to Snape? It doesn't seem the primary purpose of a Pensieve is to store thoughts, but to analyse and highlight connection between thoughts. I guess it is empty most of the time.
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So Sirius - Mar 11, 2005 11:27 am (#2875 of 2923)
I don't think that is a pensieve on the cover. It's been described as a stone basin and on the cover it looks more like a stone pillar. There's something happening in it, for sure. Perhaps Dumbledore is showing Harry a past memory or Harry is showing Dumbledore a past memory, but it wouldn't explain why their wands are at the ready. I personally think it's a magical device of some sort or a learning device of some kind. It will be argued that you'd need the wands out to place memories in, but they are definitely in fighting mode, not remembering mode, on the covers.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 11, 2005 11:34 am (#2876 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I think it's a pensieve sitting ON a pillar.
If, as people have suggested, it's Harry's memory of the night at Godric's Hollow then it's possible he just removed the memory from his mind and he would need his wand for that. It's also possible that a wand is useful in selecting which memory to view. Or, it could just be artistic license.
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Madam Pince - Mar 11, 2005 11:59 am (#2877 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
A pensieve sitting on the Pillar of Storge.....
OK, sorry -- old joke, I said it earlier, but couldn't resist...
Anyway, Stringer asked: I am wondering,on the US cover, if Harry is looking into a pensieve, why does Harry have his wand at the ready?
In GoF, before Harry sticks his face into the Pensieve, he "prods" it with his wand, causing the surface of the silvery stuff inside the basin to swirl very fast. Then later, when Dumbledore shows Harry the figure of Bertha Jorkins, he gets the vision out of the basin by "prodding" the thoughts with his wand, and puts it back into the basin by prodding yet again.
Perhaps a wand is needed to activate and de-activate the Pensieve.
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lobelia - Mar 11, 2005 12:24 pm (#2878 of 2923)
It seems as though I am in the minority. I love Scholastic's new cover. I have visions of holding the book in my hand and seeing all of the different hues of green and purple. I looked at the cover of OoTP and not very much was on the front of that one, but there is much on the back. So like many I am eager to see the back. I however, will not read the synopsis until I read the book. I like to be surprised.
I think it is the Penseive on the front. I do not think it is green mist coming out of the top, but just a color the artist chose to represent the tone of the book. In GOF, Harry is at first attracted to the shimmering of the light from the Penseive and that is how I feel when I look at the picture. The glow from the Penseive is drawing me into the picture and inviting me into the book to find out what is there in the bowl. Since she put out the snippet of text, I have thought that we might see Godric Gryffindor through the Penseive. I think it has been handed down and I think we will see him and learn some history about him.
For those who have the UK version, is there any pictures on the back of the adult or childrens versions of the other books? Perhaps I am just partial, because of what I have gotten used to, but I love the artwork on all of the American covers and the inside pictures.
Someone mentioned earlier that they thought the American artist made Harry look like Daniel Ratcliffe (sorry if mispelled), however, she said in the Today interview that she gave him her chin and her eyes. On first look, even before she said it,I thought she also made him look like her especially in the nose.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 11, 2005 2:13 pm (#2879 of 2923)
I read an interesting statement over on the Mugglenet site about Bloomsbury not releasing the back covers for HBP until July 16th because, it reveals too much information.
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Stringer - Mar 11, 2005 5:33 pm (#2880 of 2923)
Madam Pince- How could I have forgotten about Dumbledore using his wand to extract memories. So it is possible they are reviewing one of Harry's memories on the US cover.
With the green reflection I wonder if they are reviewing scenes involving the Avadra Kedrava curse. Correct me if I am wrong, but Harry has witnessed this curse when his parents died, when Cedric died, as he was running away from Voldie in the graveyard, when Dumbledore and Voldie were sparring in the MOM, and did Bellatrix use this curse on Sirius before he fell into the veil, or was that a red flash coming from her wand?
Personally I am leaning towards Harry reviewing the night his parents died (although I remember JK saying something in an interview about Harry being in his crib and not actually witnessing the death of his parents)or having Dumbledore review the night Voldie returned to his body and solving the mystery of the twinkle in his eye.
I'm still wondering if the Malfoy's mansion is located in Spinner's end. If so would Voldermort use their place of residence now that they have been outed as death eaters. There are so many questions rumbling inside my head...........
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Madam Pince - Mar 11, 2005 5:47 pm (#2881 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Ooooooo, ooooooo, oooooooo! Stringer, your post just gave me an interesting thought! I also was leaning towards the US cover showing events on the night James and Lily died, but I think you're right about the interview with JKR saying Harry was an infant in his crib who couldn't have seen much.
But what if there was somebody else there at Godric's Hollow that night, who did see what happened? Somebody who we know has made use of the Pensieve already also, and maybe perhaps forgot to retrieve one of his memories? Somebody like.....
Snape!
Oh, I can't believe I didn't think of this until now! That's my pet theory, for crying out loud! (see the first post for "Was It Snape At Godric's Hollow That Night?" thread, if you're interested...)
I really really really really really want to see the back cover! NOW!
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Stringer - Mar 11, 2005 5:53 pm (#2882 of 2923)
Madam Pince-true genius, I must say.
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 11, 2005 7:31 pm (#2883 of 2923)
I think it's possible that it could be Harry's thoughts even if he didn't see everything happen. When we saw Snape's worst memory, Harry was with his dad and the other Mauraders, but Snape wasn't there to hear everything the Mauraders were saying. That makes me think even though Harry didn't see it as a baby, since it happened while he was there, we can see any part of the events. Does that make sense? Just my 2 knuts...
Ginny
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Gina R Snape - Mar 11, 2005 9:34 pm (#2884 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I can't believe you guys haven't figured this out yet. Clearly the green reflects the colour underwater. Dumbledore is showing Harry what he does in his spare time in the lake when he turns into the giant squid!!!
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S.E. Jones - Mar 11, 2005 10:13 pm (#2885 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Ginerva Potter: I think it's possible that it could be Harry's thoughts even if he didn't see everything happen. When we saw Snape's worst memory, Harry was with his dad and the other Mauraders, but Snape wasn't there to hear everything the Mauraders were saying. That makes me think even though Harry didn't see it as a baby, since it happened while he was there, we can see any part of the events. Does that make sense? Just my 2 knuts...
Hm... I'll have to think on that one. In Snape's memory, Snape was in the area and Harry mentions that he couldn't follow his dad if Snape didn't, which Snape did. Snape was sitting close by when Harry heard the Marauders talking. So, even though he could probably see detailed things in his own general area, I'm not sure if he could, say, see what was happening down stairs or outside if he were sitting in a nursery.... I think I'm making sense....
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Madame Librarian - Mar 11, 2005 10:24 pm (#2886 of 2923)
But Harry was in Lily's arms at the moment of that final AK, so he did see her murdered and heard what else Voldemort might have said to her, he experienced the rebounded curse and what exactly transpired when Voldemort poofed out of his body. He possibly even saw some of the events immediately following, such as if anyone else was there with Voldemort and who it was. To stretch the point, he may even be able to recall, with the pensieve's help, his rescue from the destroyed house, his missing 24 hours, and all that business with Hagrid with the motorbike. All good stuff, yes?
Ciao. Barb
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S.E. Jones - Mar 11, 2005 10:57 pm (#2887 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Actually, JKR said he was in his cot and so didn't see anything.
From JKR's FAQ page of her site:
FAQ: Why could Harry see the Thestrals in ‘Order of the Phoenix’? Shouldn’t he have been able to see them much earlier, because he saw his parents/Quirrell/Cedric die?
A: I’ve been asked this a lot. Harry didn’t see his parents die. He was in his cot at the time (he was just a year old) and, as I say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, all he saw was a flash of green light.....
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Melly - Mar 12, 2005 4:23 am (#2888 of 2923)
Hi everyone - this is my first ever post! I don't think Harry would be looking at the night his parents died in the pensive. While it was definitely a crucial night (duh!) and would hold lots of maybe crucial information looking back at it but wouldn't it be a traumatic experience to see all this now? I doubt DD would want Harry to watch his parents being murdered as well.
Also, a bit off the topic but if we're still talking about the releases of the covers then the UK adult edition intrigues me as well. While it's just a book on the cover the 'Advanced Potion Making' is important I think. At first I thought it would mean that Harry would be in Snape's class again and made it through his potions exam with very good results (which I think he will continue to be in Snape's class) but then I thought it could have something to do with Voldemort's potion making (graveyard scene anyone?) or one of the steps that he took in the past to make him not die - this book may hold some information that Harry will come across perhaps? Sorry about the long post everyone - I'm a little over excited I think! What are everyone's thoughts on this?
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Kip Carter - Mar 12, 2005 5:10 am (#2889 of 2923)
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
Melly, your first post was excellent and not too long. Welcome to the Harry Potter Forum.
You have made some good points. I believe that Harry is very strong; however he is still young regardless of his experiences. To revisit their death through the Pensieve may be more than Harry could handle at his age. As far as Dumbledore restricting Harry for using the Pensieve to relive that part of his life, I doubt if he could control Harry's action; only the availability of the Pensieve.
Your insight to what the cover artwork for Book Six means is interesting; however I do not want to speculate right now as to how it relates to the plot of the book. I have review all of the covers from each of the Harry Potter books in many languages to see how the cover reflects the plot of the book and have found many interesting points that seem to hold true throughout the series; however that research is still in progress and I do not want to bring my finding to the Forum at present being that those findings may be best produced in an essay on the Lexicon. Only the future will tell what action my research will take. I am sorry of not really responding to your question better, but that is the best I can do at present.
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Ponine - Mar 12, 2005 5:26 am (#2890 of 2923)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Hi Melly - welcome!!
I too was mesmerized by the potions book, and just like you, I immediately began thinking about Voldemort and the graveyard scene, or Tom Riddle in school. I believe that the book did belong to either Tommyboy or Snape.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 12, 2005 7:02 am (#2891 of 2923)
If Harry was in his cot when his parents were killed, why, in the movie is such a dramatic difference shown--i.e., Lily holding Harry? Didn't Jo design the scene to reflect what she envisioned? I'm confused. I'm not even sure this post belongs on this thread.
Is this possibly a teensy clue/misstatement on Jo's part?
And...finally...even if Harry is not viewing the final moment of his parent's demise, he could be re-experiencing the events right after the attack. Oh, well, he, no doubt, is watching something extrememly compelling and astounding. (**tick, tick, tick, tick--that's my internal HP clock ticking away till mid-July**)
Ciao. Barb
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Steve Newton - Mar 12, 2005 7:05 am (#2892 of 2923)
Librarian
About the movie scene. I remember Lily holding the baby but then the babyis in its crib with a wand pointing toward him. Somehow Lily must have been able to put him in the crib. Perhaps there is a large chunk of time missing and Lily and Voldemort interacted in some way before Lily was killed.
Or JKR made a mistake.
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T Brightwater - Mar 12, 2005 7:10 am (#2893 of 2923)
Given that DD uses a Pensieve to help him make connections, is it possible that this scene shows Harry and DD combining their memories to allow for more connections? Perhaps something Harry has seen in one of his adventures, or one of his Voldemort-visions, means something to DD?
I wonder if Harry might learn to turn the psychic tables on Voldemort and feed him false information?
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 12, 2005 7:29 am (#2894 of 2923)
I'm going to chime in on something.
It doesn't matter if Harry was in the crib when his mother was murdered. This is magic. :-)
Remember when Harry watched Snape's worst memory? Snape was oblivious to what MWPP were doing. He had his head in a book and was not paying attention at all. The only reason Harry was able to follow MWPP the whole time was because Snape stayed relatively close by. Snape was not cognizant of what they were doing but because of the magic of the pensieve, Harry was able to see all of the detail.
I seem to remember a question put to JKR about this and she responded that it was magic. I don't remember where I got this idea since I can't seem to find it using the search function. Please correct or affirm this if you can.
In conclusion, Harry would not have to have "seen" all that transpired. He still would be able to relive it in the pensieve since it's magic we're talking about.
Betelgeuse (off for more coffee)
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Madam Pince - Mar 12, 2005 7:50 am (#2895 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
In the movie, Lily was holding Harry when the door was blasted in; her back was to the door and she was standing facing the crib. Then when she received the AK she was not holding him, and she was facing the door with her back to the crib. I would assume that she put Harry down in his crib and then turned around to deal with the threat, but got AK'd first.
Betelgeuse, I always got the impression that Snape was paying very close attention to what MWPP were doing and saying; he was just burying his face in a book to hide that fact. This is just a guess, but it seems like a very typical thing for a teenager to do who is in Snape's postion -- lonely and shut out of the "in" crowd --pretending not to care when he desperately does. I took the fact that what MWPP had said was recorded in his memories to mean that he did actually hear what they said.
Welcome, Melly! You have some great points! Like Kip said, Dumbledore has shown that he leans toward being protective of Harry, so he probably wouldn't want to cause Harry the extra pain of seeing his parents' death. But Harry has shown that he does not always listen to what his authority figures say -- he can be a bit of a rebel! So I'm thinking Kip is spot on in that Harry would be likely to go ahead and look at a Pensieve memory even if he's warned not to.
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Ydnam96 - Mar 12, 2005 8:12 am (#2896 of 2923)
Nice to see Kip posting!
I too agree that I don't think DD would encourage Harry to use the Pensive to "see" that night in Godric's Hollow because of it's traumatic nature.
I also have issues with what the powers of the pensive actually can do...being magic and all I guess more than I would think...but in my opinion it is like a tape recorder in that it plays back an intact memory that you put in it.
I agree with Madame Pince, the reason Harry can see what is going on with his dad and Sirius et al. is because Snape was paying attention to them.
I do not think that the pensive extrapolates what was going on around the area of the memory so to provide extra information that the owner of the memory did not actually put into the pensive to begin with.
I do however believe that a person may be taking in more information than they are aware of. For example, although baby Harry may not have seen the goings on of the night because he was in his crib, he may have heard it. Therefore, the pensive might just play back the sounds and not a visual memory. (like what he hears when the dementors are around). Or you would see what Harry saw while he heard what was going on...his crib or the wall or what have you.
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Stringer - Mar 12, 2005 8:13 am (#2897 of 2923)
I'm leaning towards Harry and DD reviewing the night Voldie returned to his body, but I also like T Brightwater's idea about DD and Harry combining their memories. I remember DD getting a twinkle in his eye when Harry first told him the story of what happened in the graveyard. I hope the spell book on the UK cover contains the potion Voldie used to return, but would that be in an advanced spell book, or a dark arts spell book?
As for Harry being able to see all the events the night his parents were killed, I believe he has the ability to hear them , but not see them. Personally I don't thing JK made a mistake on this statement. The movies have jumbled up a lot of book info, so I go with JK's statement.
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Phoenix song - Mar 12, 2005 8:25 am (#2898 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
"In the movie, Lily was holding Harry when the door was blasted in; her back was to the door and she was standing facing the crib. Then when she received the AK she was not holding him, and she was facing the door with her back to the crib. I would assume that she put Harry down in his crib and then turned around to deal with the threat, but got AK'd first." Madam Pince
Madam Pince, what you've stated here has gone to the heart of my intrigue with that night at Godric's Hollow. We know that JKR herself supervised the filming of this scene, to prevent unknowing errors since she was the only one who knew the full story of that night. I therefore tend to think of those snippets of film as being true to her vision.
So, here lies the question: Why the inconsistency with not showing the amount of time that lay between Lily yelling at the door and getting murdered? Obviously there was some undisclosed time between the two events, as she was holding Harry in the door scene and he was in the crib later on.
My thought is that the wizard that blasted open the door and the wizard the AK'd Lily were not the same person. I think that somebody forced their way inside the door in an effort to warn the family, but it was someone who scared Lily regardless. Some time passed during which Harry was placed in his crib, and then a second wizard entered (Voldemort) and Lily was killed. {Notice that we do not see or hear James in this scene, which is also intriguing.} So, this takes us back to Madam Pince's original question: Who else was there on that night in Godric's Hollow?
I am heartened that Jo has promised us that the opening chapter of HBP is one that has been in the making for many years, but is one that revealed too much and was shelved for future use. I think that we will finally learn the truth about that fateful night at Godric's Hollow. I can't wait!
Barbie
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mooncalf - Mar 12, 2005 10:20 am (#2899 of 2923)
I don't think that Dumbledore would be unwilling to show Harry the events that took place on that night in Godric's Hollow, now matter how disturbing they may be. I think that Dumbledore states pretty clearly at the end of OoTP that he knows that he made a mistake in keeping unpleasant truths from Harry; I think that that aspect of their relationship has changed and Dumbledore will treat Harry more as an adult and stop keeping unpleasant truths from him. They could very well be looking at Godric's Hollow, or the night in the graveyard, both excellent theories.
But I don't really think that's a pensieve on the cover; it's a cereal bowl. Wouldn't you look alarmed, too, if your corn flakes were suddenly emitting a green glow?
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T Brightwater - Mar 12, 2005 11:57 am (#2900 of 2923)
"But I don't really think that's a pensieve on the cover; it's a cereal bowl. Wouldn't you look alarmed, too, if your corn flakes were suddenly emitting a green glow?"
So, do you think Mrs. Skower's would work for tea stains on monitors?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I agree with you Weeny about that bit of black being DD's robe.
You folks have produced great theories since yesterday ! Just a thought : wouldn't Harry show more emotions if he were to delve into a pensieve showing his parent's murder ? That scene looks more a teaching scene to me, as if Dumbledore was teaching something involving that pensieve/thing to Harry.
BTW welcome back Jackie ! How is Jerusalem ? you can answer me on the chat thread.
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mononoke - Mar 10, 2005 6:17 am (#2852 of 2923)
About US version,my first impression is DD going to show Harry something ,that's why Harry's face is so concentrated.OR send Harry somewhere, because ,look how Harry's holding his wand and his face,to me it felt like he prepared to jump in ...pensieve??? or maybe both of them prepared to jump in...**confusing**
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Eliza - Mar 10, 2005 11:38 am (#2853 of 2923)
I think that what they are looking at in the pensieve is the night of Voldemort's return to power. The green light could be the death of Cedric. It would be important for DD to see that night firsthand in order to help decide the best way to defeat Voldemort. Remember that he was avoiding Harry in OoP so this would be his first real chance to take a look at that night. To me Harry looks like a person who is having to relive something that he would rather not and DD looks like the one who is learning.
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the7eagle - Mar 10, 2005 11:44 am (#2854 of 2923)
In reading through the last 25 posts, what stood out for me as interesting was that someone mentioning Dumbledore (on the UK Children cover) looking a little worried.
And the suggestion was that Voldemort may be attacking, hence Dumbledore being worried.
I, on the contary don't think it may be Voldemort, because Dumbledore was not worried or scared of him in the Ministry battle.
Who than can make Dumbledore worried, maybe the Half-Blood Prince. If Godric Griffindor is the HBP, I see no reason for him to be worried. But who else is powerful enough to rival Dumbledore's powers besides Voldemort. For a brief moment I flirted with the idea of Salalzar Slytherin, but have nothing to support it.
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Ponine - Mar 10, 2005 11:50 am (#2855 of 2923)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I know this might be a silly question, but how exactly do we know that it is Dumbledore on the cover of the UK edition? As far as I am concerned, he looks a tad festively plump, much more than DD is (in my head, anyways). Could we entertain the notion that it might be - Moody, or someone else? (Covering head with arms, waiting for dungbombs)
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Madam Pince - Mar 10, 2005 11:57 am (#2856 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Is it ever specifically mentioned that the penisieve in Snapes office is NOT his, or that he DOES NOT own one? --Regan of Gong
I don't think it's ever specifically said that Snape DOES NOT own a pensieve, but I think we can infer it, because in OoP in "Occlumency," when Harry comes to Snape's office for lessons, it says "Harry's attention was drawn toward the desk, however, where a shallow stone basin engraved with runes and symbols lay in a pool of candlelight. Harry recognized it at once -- Dumbledore's Pensieve."
Then later in "Snape's Worst Memory," it says "Snape was standing with his back to Harry, removing, as usual, certain of his thoughts and placing them carefully in Dumbledore's Pensieve."
I could've sworn I read somewhere that Snape says he borrowed the pensieve from Dumbledore, but I can't find the reference anywhere.
Hmmmmmmm....I've looked at the GrandPre cover again, but I can't see any room architecture on the right side where Harry's robes should be. I can see a bit of vertical green color -- which is also on the left side but to a lesser extent. It looks to me like part of "whatever" that green vapor is, just sort of "dripping" off the edge of the Pensieve. I don't get the impression that Harry and Dumbledore are disembodied. I think it's just GrandPre's artistic style to have her subjects kind of rising out of a swirling background color -- she used the same technique on the OoP cover, too. Gives a kind of foggy/misty/mysterious tone to the whole thing, maybe. Anyway, who knows? Just my take...
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Tomoé - Mar 10, 2005 12:39 pm (#2857 of 2923)
Back in business
Ponine -> how exactly do we know that it is Dumbledore on the cover of the UK edition?
His half-moon glasses betrayed him. ^_~
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Mrs Brisbee - Mar 10, 2005 2:22 pm (#2858 of 2923)
Like Ponine, I wasn't sure it was Dumbledore until I noticed the glasses. He's sort of a Generic Wizard Guy. His nose is also very short and straight rather than long and crooked. Oh well, artistic license I guess.
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Norbert not a common welsh green - Mar 10, 2005 2:30 pm (#2859 of 2923)
HBP, Book cover
The cover for HBP was released lately (The one for the UK). What do people think of it? What about clues for the plot? For those who haven't seen it yet it shows Harry And Dumbeldore with wands out sourounded by rings of fire.
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Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Mar 10, 2005 2:30 pm (#2860 of 2923)
No day but Today
Well I think that its really pretty in terms of the colors. I also think that it means that Dumbledore will be essential to the main plot. I'm not sure how though.
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So Sirius - Mar 10, 2005 7:06 pm (#2861 of 2923)
The only conclusion I can really come to, based on the covers, is that Harry and Dumbledore are going to fight together. In SS Snape said something to the effect that potions was stronger or more useful than wands, but it looks like they're going to use both, somehow.
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Jo S - Mar 10, 2005 9:50 pm (#2862 of 2923)
On page 467 of the British edition (chapter 24 - Occlumency) it says that there was " a shallow stone basin engraved with runes and symbols .... Harry recognised it at once - It was Dumbledores pensieve" On page562 it refers to Snape putting memories into Dumbledores pensieve. I cant find a reference about Snape acknowledging that he had borrowed Dumbledors pensieve. A good question is why did dumbledore lend Snape the pensieve. It seems to me to be a fairly personal object if it is used to store memories. Why would Snape store his memories (especially his worst and most humiliating memories) in Dumbledores pensieve,where Dumbledore could see them. Perhaps they both have pensieves which to Harry appear identical?? However Snape could be storing memories for Dumbledore which he considers to be important information for Dumbledore to know in fighting Voldemort! Just a theory which I have made up as i went
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Matt Allair - Mar 10, 2005 10:25 pm (#2863 of 2923)
'Mischief Managed.......Not! (Nox)'
Hello Everyone, I can't add much more to all the observations that have been made about the covers, just two points.
Someone, many posts ago, commented that Dumbledore on the UK cover of HBP looked terribly angry. That isn't my interpretation, Dumbledore seems very focused and intense on the UK cover and Harry looks like great on the UK cover, like a man who's come of age!!
My other observation is with how the artist's are presenting Harry on the covers, both the American Grand Pre cover and the UK cover. Is it just me or are artists starting to represent their interpretation of Harry with a visual nod towards Daniel Radcliffe? Interesting.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 10, 2005 10:33 pm (#2864 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I don't know if GrandPre is giving a nod to Radcliffe or not. I think old Danny boy looked just like Harry from the cover of GoF when he was cast in the first movie. However, the cover was drawn long before casting even began, if I remember my trivia right.....
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Stringer - Mar 10, 2005 10:50 pm (#2865 of 2923)
I am wondering,on the US cover, if Harry is looking into a pensieve, why does Harry have his wand at the ready? He would be looking at the past from a safe perspective. Could this be a clue as to the ownership of the pensieve?
Wouldn't it be great if the Malfoy's house were located at Spinner's End, and after Lucius' arrest they found his pensieve. What an amazing amount of information could be stored there. We would also get a chance to see more of Narcissa, which JK stated we would.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Mar 10, 2005 10:54 pm (#2866 of 2923)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Wouldn't it be great if the Malfoy's house were located at Spinner's End,..." Now that idea merits some thought. I rather like it.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 10, 2005 10:56 pm (#2867 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Ooh, so Malfoy's manor could be Spinner's End.... That's an intriguing thought.
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Magical Llama - Mar 11, 2005 12:03 am (#2868 of 2923)
The cover for HBP was released lately (The one for the UK). What do people think of it? What about clues for the plot? For those who haven't seen it yet it shows Harry And Dumbledore with wands out surrounded by rings of fire.
I think we should all expect things to go Voldemort's way in the HBP. This will most likely be the darkest, and the most pessimistic, book in the series.
Curse my curiosity. I now deeply regret having taken a peek at the UK cover for the HBP. First of all, I hate the way in which Dumbledore and Harry are drawn. Harry and Dumbledore reek of cliché' fantasy in this picture which angers me. Harry Potter is not cliché' fantasy! Secondly, the cover is too revealing. It seems to me that there will be an epic fight in which Dumbledore will exert a tremendous amount of power and then probably die. *Llama cries in the corner*
Eliza wrote: To me Harry looks like a person who is having to relive something that he would rather not and DD looks like the one who is learning.
I like that idea. =)~
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 11, 2005 2:25 am (#2869 of 2923)
I agree with Eliza too. I hope it is about the beginning. Let's not forget that the first chapter has been waiting 13 years to see the world. With each book we have had a flashback, hopefully this will shed great amounts of (green) light on what happened in Godric's Hollow. I seem to remember something about learning a lot more about Lily Potter and Harry's eyes.
Maybe - ooh! - the old potions book is old Evans property stored under a loose floorboard, or a creaky stair, in Privet Drive!
Aurora xx
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septentrion - Mar 11, 2005 2:51 am (#2870 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
There's news on mugglenet saying images of the back covers of HBP won't be released before July 16th because they reveal too much of the plot. That make them still more interesting, no ? I hope we'll get at least some glimpses of the synopses (showing a hoping face)
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Her-melanie - Mar 11, 2005 6:12 am (#2871 of 2923)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I bet the Half-Blood Prince is on the back.
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Loopy Lupin - Mar 11, 2005 6:20 am (#2872 of 2923)
I think that what they are looking at in the pensieve is the night of Voldemort's return to power. The green light could be the death of Cedric.
Or maybe they are looking in on the night Harry's parents were killed.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 11, 2005 7:15 am (#2873 of 2923)
"Maybe - ooh! - the old potions book is old Evans property stored under a loose floorboard, or a creaky stair, in Privet Drive! " -Aurora
That along with the Malfoy's mansion at Spinners End are the most intriguing ideas I've seen in quite a while. Thanks for the mind food!
Betelgeuse
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Tomoé - Mar 11, 2005 10:01 am (#2874 of 2923)
Back in business
Why Harry have his wand ready above the Pensieve, but not Dumbledore, maybe Harry finally learn how to use one. (Yoohoo!)
Now, why did Dumbledore lent his Pensieve to Snape? It doesn't seem the primary purpose of a Pensieve is to store thoughts, but to analyse and highlight connection between thoughts. I guess it is empty most of the time.
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So Sirius - Mar 11, 2005 11:27 am (#2875 of 2923)
I don't think that is a pensieve on the cover. It's been described as a stone basin and on the cover it looks more like a stone pillar. There's something happening in it, for sure. Perhaps Dumbledore is showing Harry a past memory or Harry is showing Dumbledore a past memory, but it wouldn't explain why their wands are at the ready. I personally think it's a magical device of some sort or a learning device of some kind. It will be argued that you'd need the wands out to place memories in, but they are definitely in fighting mode, not remembering mode, on the covers.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 11, 2005 11:34 am (#2876 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I think it's a pensieve sitting ON a pillar.
If, as people have suggested, it's Harry's memory of the night at Godric's Hollow then it's possible he just removed the memory from his mind and he would need his wand for that. It's also possible that a wand is useful in selecting which memory to view. Or, it could just be artistic license.
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Madam Pince - Mar 11, 2005 11:59 am (#2877 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
A pensieve sitting on the Pillar of Storge.....
OK, sorry -- old joke, I said it earlier, but couldn't resist...
Anyway, Stringer asked: I am wondering,on the US cover, if Harry is looking into a pensieve, why does Harry have his wand at the ready?
In GoF, before Harry sticks his face into the Pensieve, he "prods" it with his wand, causing the surface of the silvery stuff inside the basin to swirl very fast. Then later, when Dumbledore shows Harry the figure of Bertha Jorkins, he gets the vision out of the basin by "prodding" the thoughts with his wand, and puts it back into the basin by prodding yet again.
Perhaps a wand is needed to activate and de-activate the Pensieve.
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lobelia - Mar 11, 2005 12:24 pm (#2878 of 2923)
It seems as though I am in the minority. I love Scholastic's new cover. I have visions of holding the book in my hand and seeing all of the different hues of green and purple. I looked at the cover of OoTP and not very much was on the front of that one, but there is much on the back. So like many I am eager to see the back. I however, will not read the synopsis until I read the book. I like to be surprised.
I think it is the Penseive on the front. I do not think it is green mist coming out of the top, but just a color the artist chose to represent the tone of the book. In GOF, Harry is at first attracted to the shimmering of the light from the Penseive and that is how I feel when I look at the picture. The glow from the Penseive is drawing me into the picture and inviting me into the book to find out what is there in the bowl. Since she put out the snippet of text, I have thought that we might see Godric Gryffindor through the Penseive. I think it has been handed down and I think we will see him and learn some history about him.
For those who have the UK version, is there any pictures on the back of the adult or childrens versions of the other books? Perhaps I am just partial, because of what I have gotten used to, but I love the artwork on all of the American covers and the inside pictures.
Someone mentioned earlier that they thought the American artist made Harry look like Daniel Ratcliffe (sorry if mispelled), however, she said in the Today interview that she gave him her chin and her eyes. On first look, even before she said it,I thought she also made him look like her especially in the nose.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 11, 2005 2:13 pm (#2879 of 2923)
I read an interesting statement over on the Mugglenet site about Bloomsbury not releasing the back covers for HBP until July 16th because, it reveals too much information.
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Stringer - Mar 11, 2005 5:33 pm (#2880 of 2923)
Madam Pince- How could I have forgotten about Dumbledore using his wand to extract memories. So it is possible they are reviewing one of Harry's memories on the US cover.
With the green reflection I wonder if they are reviewing scenes involving the Avadra Kedrava curse. Correct me if I am wrong, but Harry has witnessed this curse when his parents died, when Cedric died, as he was running away from Voldie in the graveyard, when Dumbledore and Voldie were sparring in the MOM, and did Bellatrix use this curse on Sirius before he fell into the veil, or was that a red flash coming from her wand?
Personally I am leaning towards Harry reviewing the night his parents died (although I remember JK saying something in an interview about Harry being in his crib and not actually witnessing the death of his parents)or having Dumbledore review the night Voldie returned to his body and solving the mystery of the twinkle in his eye.
I'm still wondering if the Malfoy's mansion is located in Spinner's end. If so would Voldermort use their place of residence now that they have been outed as death eaters. There are so many questions rumbling inside my head...........
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Madam Pince - Mar 11, 2005 5:47 pm (#2881 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Ooooooo, ooooooo, oooooooo! Stringer, your post just gave me an interesting thought! I also was leaning towards the US cover showing events on the night James and Lily died, but I think you're right about the interview with JKR saying Harry was an infant in his crib who couldn't have seen much.
But what if there was somebody else there at Godric's Hollow that night, who did see what happened? Somebody who we know has made use of the Pensieve already also, and maybe perhaps forgot to retrieve one of his memories? Somebody like.....
Snape!
Oh, I can't believe I didn't think of this until now! That's my pet theory, for crying out loud! (see the first post for "Was It Snape At Godric's Hollow That Night?" thread, if you're interested...)
I really really really really really want to see the back cover! NOW!
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Stringer - Mar 11, 2005 5:53 pm (#2882 of 2923)
Madam Pince-true genius, I must say.
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 11, 2005 7:31 pm (#2883 of 2923)
I think it's possible that it could be Harry's thoughts even if he didn't see everything happen. When we saw Snape's worst memory, Harry was with his dad and the other Mauraders, but Snape wasn't there to hear everything the Mauraders were saying. That makes me think even though Harry didn't see it as a baby, since it happened while he was there, we can see any part of the events. Does that make sense? Just my 2 knuts...
Ginny
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Gina R Snape - Mar 11, 2005 9:34 pm (#2884 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I can't believe you guys haven't figured this out yet. Clearly the green reflects the colour underwater. Dumbledore is showing Harry what he does in his spare time in the lake when he turns into the giant squid!!!
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S.E. Jones - Mar 11, 2005 10:13 pm (#2885 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Ginerva Potter: I think it's possible that it could be Harry's thoughts even if he didn't see everything happen. When we saw Snape's worst memory, Harry was with his dad and the other Mauraders, but Snape wasn't there to hear everything the Mauraders were saying. That makes me think even though Harry didn't see it as a baby, since it happened while he was there, we can see any part of the events. Does that make sense? Just my 2 knuts...
Hm... I'll have to think on that one. In Snape's memory, Snape was in the area and Harry mentions that he couldn't follow his dad if Snape didn't, which Snape did. Snape was sitting close by when Harry heard the Marauders talking. So, even though he could probably see detailed things in his own general area, I'm not sure if he could, say, see what was happening down stairs or outside if he were sitting in a nursery.... I think I'm making sense....
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Madame Librarian - Mar 11, 2005 10:24 pm (#2886 of 2923)
But Harry was in Lily's arms at the moment of that final AK, so he did see her murdered and heard what else Voldemort might have said to her, he experienced the rebounded curse and what exactly transpired when Voldemort poofed out of his body. He possibly even saw some of the events immediately following, such as if anyone else was there with Voldemort and who it was. To stretch the point, he may even be able to recall, with the pensieve's help, his rescue from the destroyed house, his missing 24 hours, and all that business with Hagrid with the motorbike. All good stuff, yes?
Ciao. Barb
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S.E. Jones - Mar 11, 2005 10:57 pm (#2887 of 2923)
Let it snow!
Actually, JKR said he was in his cot and so didn't see anything.
From JKR's FAQ page of her site:
FAQ: Why could Harry see the Thestrals in ‘Order of the Phoenix’? Shouldn’t he have been able to see them much earlier, because he saw his parents/Quirrell/Cedric die?
A: I’ve been asked this a lot. Harry didn’t see his parents die. He was in his cot at the time (he was just a year old) and, as I say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, all he saw was a flash of green light.....
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Melly - Mar 12, 2005 4:23 am (#2888 of 2923)
Hi everyone - this is my first ever post! I don't think Harry would be looking at the night his parents died in the pensive. While it was definitely a crucial night (duh!) and would hold lots of maybe crucial information looking back at it but wouldn't it be a traumatic experience to see all this now? I doubt DD would want Harry to watch his parents being murdered as well.
Also, a bit off the topic but if we're still talking about the releases of the covers then the UK adult edition intrigues me as well. While it's just a book on the cover the 'Advanced Potion Making' is important I think. At first I thought it would mean that Harry would be in Snape's class again and made it through his potions exam with very good results (which I think he will continue to be in Snape's class) but then I thought it could have something to do with Voldemort's potion making (graveyard scene anyone?) or one of the steps that he took in the past to make him not die - this book may hold some information that Harry will come across perhaps? Sorry about the long post everyone - I'm a little over excited I think! What are everyone's thoughts on this?
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Kip Carter - Mar 12, 2005 5:10 am (#2889 of 2923)
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
Melly, your first post was excellent and not too long. Welcome to the Harry Potter Forum.
You have made some good points. I believe that Harry is very strong; however he is still young regardless of his experiences. To revisit their death through the Pensieve may be more than Harry could handle at his age. As far as Dumbledore restricting Harry for using the Pensieve to relive that part of his life, I doubt if he could control Harry's action; only the availability of the Pensieve.
Your insight to what the cover artwork for Book Six means is interesting; however I do not want to speculate right now as to how it relates to the plot of the book. I have review all of the covers from each of the Harry Potter books in many languages to see how the cover reflects the plot of the book and have found many interesting points that seem to hold true throughout the series; however that research is still in progress and I do not want to bring my finding to the Forum at present being that those findings may be best produced in an essay on the Lexicon. Only the future will tell what action my research will take. I am sorry of not really responding to your question better, but that is the best I can do at present.
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Ponine - Mar 12, 2005 5:26 am (#2890 of 2923)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Hi Melly - welcome!!
I too was mesmerized by the potions book, and just like you, I immediately began thinking about Voldemort and the graveyard scene, or Tom Riddle in school. I believe that the book did belong to either Tommyboy or Snape.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 12, 2005 7:02 am (#2891 of 2923)
If Harry was in his cot when his parents were killed, why, in the movie is such a dramatic difference shown--i.e., Lily holding Harry? Didn't Jo design the scene to reflect what she envisioned? I'm confused. I'm not even sure this post belongs on this thread.
Is this possibly a teensy clue/misstatement on Jo's part?
And...finally...even if Harry is not viewing the final moment of his parent's demise, he could be re-experiencing the events right after the attack. Oh, well, he, no doubt, is watching something extrememly compelling and astounding. (**tick, tick, tick, tick--that's my internal HP clock ticking away till mid-July**)
Ciao. Barb
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Steve Newton - Mar 12, 2005 7:05 am (#2892 of 2923)
Librarian
About the movie scene. I remember Lily holding the baby but then the babyis in its crib with a wand pointing toward him. Somehow Lily must have been able to put him in the crib. Perhaps there is a large chunk of time missing and Lily and Voldemort interacted in some way before Lily was killed.
Or JKR made a mistake.
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T Brightwater - Mar 12, 2005 7:10 am (#2893 of 2923)
Given that DD uses a Pensieve to help him make connections, is it possible that this scene shows Harry and DD combining their memories to allow for more connections? Perhaps something Harry has seen in one of his adventures, or one of his Voldemort-visions, means something to DD?
I wonder if Harry might learn to turn the psychic tables on Voldemort and feed him false information?
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 12, 2005 7:29 am (#2894 of 2923)
I'm going to chime in on something.
It doesn't matter if Harry was in the crib when his mother was murdered. This is magic. :-)
Remember when Harry watched Snape's worst memory? Snape was oblivious to what MWPP were doing. He had his head in a book and was not paying attention at all. The only reason Harry was able to follow MWPP the whole time was because Snape stayed relatively close by. Snape was not cognizant of what they were doing but because of the magic of the pensieve, Harry was able to see all of the detail.
I seem to remember a question put to JKR about this and she responded that it was magic. I don't remember where I got this idea since I can't seem to find it using the search function. Please correct or affirm this if you can.
In conclusion, Harry would not have to have "seen" all that transpired. He still would be able to relive it in the pensieve since it's magic we're talking about.
Betelgeuse (off for more coffee)
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Madam Pince - Mar 12, 2005 7:50 am (#2895 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
In the movie, Lily was holding Harry when the door was blasted in; her back was to the door and she was standing facing the crib. Then when she received the AK she was not holding him, and she was facing the door with her back to the crib. I would assume that she put Harry down in his crib and then turned around to deal with the threat, but got AK'd first.
Betelgeuse, I always got the impression that Snape was paying very close attention to what MWPP were doing and saying; he was just burying his face in a book to hide that fact. This is just a guess, but it seems like a very typical thing for a teenager to do who is in Snape's postion -- lonely and shut out of the "in" crowd --pretending not to care when he desperately does. I took the fact that what MWPP had said was recorded in his memories to mean that he did actually hear what they said.
Welcome, Melly! You have some great points! Like Kip said, Dumbledore has shown that he leans toward being protective of Harry, so he probably wouldn't want to cause Harry the extra pain of seeing his parents' death. But Harry has shown that he does not always listen to what his authority figures say -- he can be a bit of a rebel! So I'm thinking Kip is spot on in that Harry would be likely to go ahead and look at a Pensieve memory even if he's warned not to.
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Ydnam96 - Mar 12, 2005 8:12 am (#2896 of 2923)
Nice to see Kip posting!
I too agree that I don't think DD would encourage Harry to use the Pensive to "see" that night in Godric's Hollow because of it's traumatic nature.
I also have issues with what the powers of the pensive actually can do...being magic and all I guess more than I would think...but in my opinion it is like a tape recorder in that it plays back an intact memory that you put in it.
I agree with Madame Pince, the reason Harry can see what is going on with his dad and Sirius et al. is because Snape was paying attention to them.
I do not think that the pensive extrapolates what was going on around the area of the memory so to provide extra information that the owner of the memory did not actually put into the pensive to begin with.
I do however believe that a person may be taking in more information than they are aware of. For example, although baby Harry may not have seen the goings on of the night because he was in his crib, he may have heard it. Therefore, the pensive might just play back the sounds and not a visual memory. (like what he hears when the dementors are around). Or you would see what Harry saw while he heard what was going on...his crib or the wall or what have you.
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Stringer - Mar 12, 2005 8:13 am (#2897 of 2923)
I'm leaning towards Harry and DD reviewing the night Voldie returned to his body, but I also like T Brightwater's idea about DD and Harry combining their memories. I remember DD getting a twinkle in his eye when Harry first told him the story of what happened in the graveyard. I hope the spell book on the UK cover contains the potion Voldie used to return, but would that be in an advanced spell book, or a dark arts spell book?
As for Harry being able to see all the events the night his parents were killed, I believe he has the ability to hear them , but not see them. Personally I don't thing JK made a mistake on this statement. The movies have jumbled up a lot of book info, so I go with JK's statement.
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Phoenix song - Mar 12, 2005 8:25 am (#2898 of 2923)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
"In the movie, Lily was holding Harry when the door was blasted in; her back was to the door and she was standing facing the crib. Then when she received the AK she was not holding him, and she was facing the door with her back to the crib. I would assume that she put Harry down in his crib and then turned around to deal with the threat, but got AK'd first." Madam Pince
Madam Pince, what you've stated here has gone to the heart of my intrigue with that night at Godric's Hollow. We know that JKR herself supervised the filming of this scene, to prevent unknowing errors since she was the only one who knew the full story of that night. I therefore tend to think of those snippets of film as being true to her vision.
So, here lies the question: Why the inconsistency with not showing the amount of time that lay between Lily yelling at the door and getting murdered? Obviously there was some undisclosed time between the two events, as she was holding Harry in the door scene and he was in the crib later on.
My thought is that the wizard that blasted open the door and the wizard the AK'd Lily were not the same person. I think that somebody forced their way inside the door in an effort to warn the family, but it was someone who scared Lily regardless. Some time passed during which Harry was placed in his crib, and then a second wizard entered (Voldemort) and Lily was killed. {Notice that we do not see or hear James in this scene, which is also intriguing.} So, this takes us back to Madam Pince's original question: Who else was there on that night in Godric's Hollow?
I am heartened that Jo has promised us that the opening chapter of HBP is one that has been in the making for many years, but is one that revealed too much and was shelved for future use. I think that we will finally learn the truth about that fateful night at Godric's Hollow. I can't wait!
Barbie
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mooncalf - Mar 12, 2005 10:20 am (#2899 of 2923)
I don't think that Dumbledore would be unwilling to show Harry the events that took place on that night in Godric's Hollow, now matter how disturbing they may be. I think that Dumbledore states pretty clearly at the end of OoTP that he knows that he made a mistake in keeping unpleasant truths from Harry; I think that that aspect of their relationship has changed and Dumbledore will treat Harry more as an adult and stop keeping unpleasant truths from him. They could very well be looking at Godric's Hollow, or the night in the graveyard, both excellent theories.
But I don't really think that's a pensieve on the cover; it's a cereal bowl. Wouldn't you look alarmed, too, if your corn flakes were suddenly emitting a green glow?
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T Brightwater - Mar 12, 2005 11:57 am (#2900 of 2923)
"But I don't really think that's a pensieve on the cover; it's a cereal bowl. Wouldn't you look alarmed, too, if your corn flakes were suddenly emitting a green glow?"
So, do you think Mrs. Skower's would work for tea stains on monitors?
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 2901 to 2923)
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:27 am
S.E. Jones - Mar 12, 2005 12:30 pm (#2901 of 2923)
Let it snow!
I don't know, I think I may be more willing to eat my cereal, were it glowing green.... That would certainly be a neat novelty to get kids and grown-ups like me, who don't like breakfast, to eat their cereal without complaint....
Anyway, I think there is a lot of time missing in that scene from PS. I mean we see Voldemort opening the door, then Lily confronting him on the stairs, the doorway being blown off, and then Lily getting killed.... Where's the whole confrontation with James? Where's the scene of Voldemort entering the house and walking up the stairs?... Well, it's what they call jump cuts, where you jump to just the important aspects of a scene. So, us not seeing Lily put Harry down isn't that big a thing, really.
I think Harry will be revisiting that night in Godric's Hollow, despite how traumatic it might be, because I think he needs to know, and I think Dumbledore's finally realized that there are things Harry needs to know and that he can't keep them from our Hero without Harry being hurt by that lack of knowledge in the end....
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Madam Pince - Mar 12, 2005 12:43 pm (#2902 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Here, here! Let's hope Dumbledore has finally realized that, Sarah! If we have to wait until Book 7, I don't think I can stand it! I really think (hope?) the US cover is telling us that Dumbledore and Harry will be looking at the events at Godric's Hollow together... I don't know why I think that -- goodness knows there's plenty of other occasions where a greenish light has been utilized, and the whole green color thing might simply be artistic license. I guess it's just because that particular question (Godric's Hollow events) is number one on my personal "I-want-to-know!" list...
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penguin patronus - Mar 12, 2005 3:13 pm (#2903 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
I'm, well, basically completely convinced that it's a pensieve on the cover, and they're are looking at the event in which Voldemort killed Harry's parents. I mean seriously, why else would it be all, like, glowing green? It has to be the death curse's glow, if not...well I don't know what it would be. Oh yeah! Funny thing! My sister said there was going to be a pensieve on the cover a long time ago, and it turned out to be true! Weird, huh?
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 12, 2005 4:27 pm (#2904 of 2923)
Ok, Penguin, who is your sister and how does she know this? Can you ask her a favour from me and get me six numbers for next Saturday's lottery draw?
Back to thread: Didn't someone say a few posts back that during an interview on Today (US programme) that the picture is a pensieve?
As for James and where he appears - we know he was killed just before Lily was killed because of the Priori Incantatem that occurred during the graveyard scene.
I have a small (and probably totally inaccurate theory) that DD's watch with the 12 hands is some kind of Time Turner Tracker device just in case one gets a little lost jumping around through time. I think DD went back and - knowing he couldn't alter much of what will happen - made just enough adjustment to ensure Harry's survival. Bizarre I know, but then...
Aurora xx
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haymoni - Mar 12, 2005 5:50 pm (#2905 of 2923)
I wonder if the pensieve on the cover is located somewhere in the MOM.
It could be THE Pensieve. If there is a room for prophesies, maybe there is a room for memories.
That could be why it is on the Pillar of Storge.
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Regan of Gong - Mar 12, 2005 6:29 pm (#2906 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
"I have thought that we might see Godric Gryffindor through the Penseive. I think it has been handed down and I think we will see him and learn some history about him." lobelia
Wouldn't it be great to see a confrontation between Godric and Salazar on the "pure blood-half blood" issue that they had so many years ago. Slightly off topic, I know, but I haven't had a chance to reply to that post for a couple of days.
Regan (of Gong)
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Thora - Mar 12, 2005 7:27 pm (#2907 of 2923)
Sorry if this has been posted but does anyone think that the UK children's cover might show some kind of pheonix-rebirth spell in which DD transfers powers or abilities to Harry? (I'm going to take this to the Recurring boy who lived theory thread too.)
Thora
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septentrion - Mar 13, 2005 2:29 am (#2908 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Doesn't the UK childre cover remind of DD's spell in the DoM : Dumbledore had drawn back his wand and waved it as though brandishing a whip. A long thin flame flew from the tip; it wrapped itself around Voldemort, shield and all.
But why the flame is wrapped around Harry and DD, I can't say.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 13, 2005 7:37 am (#2909 of 2923)
Madam Pince,
I disagree with your assessment of Snape's paying attention to MWPP in the chapter "Snape's Worst Memory". I went back and read a portion again to make sure I wasn't mistaken.
When Harry "lands" in the memory in the pensieve, Snape is writing very fast on his exam paper with his nose an inch from the paper. Harry is able to wander about the whole room and see details that Snape couldn't possibly see. For instance, James is writing L.E. on his parchment and exchanging glances with Sirius. Harry notices a girl watching Sirius hopefully. Snape couldn't possibly have noticed all that while he is furiously answering exam questions.
Therefore, I believe that Harry and DD could be seeing scene at Godric's Hollow.
My guesses to what happens in HBP are driven by what specific things we don't know. We don't know what exactly happened at Godric's Hollow. We don't know what James and Lily did to defy Voldy three times and we don't know what their occupation was (alchemy?). We don't know why Voldemort didn't die. We don't know why Snape is trusted by DD. We don't know much about Lily and why Lupin seems to be so indebted to her. We don't know who was thrown from the Hog's Head during the prophesy.
I think the Scholastic cover shows a pensieve. My guess is that DD is showing Harry things about his parents. That's the biggest gap in our knowledge right now. I think we can learn a lot about James and Lily without giving the whole plot away. That seems to be JKR's style. Give just enough information to keep speculation at a maximum. Harry and DD seem intent but not upset. I think some of the other scenes would be very intense and the characters don't seem to be that emotional.
Betelgeuse
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Ydnam96 - Mar 13, 2005 8:53 am (#2910 of 2923)
To go in a different direction...anyone notice that so far (up until this cover) all the covers have been different colors. THis cover is green, just as the cover for GoF.
Does anyone see any significance there? The rebirthing of VM happened in that book, we learned about Fudge more in that book, also Ludo. We learned about Rita in that book. We learned about other wizarding schools...Really it was a turning point in the series. I wonder if the green covers have some significance (at least the US covers)
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Stringer - Mar 13, 2005 8:56 am (#2911 of 2923)
I believe if Harry and DD were reviewing the night at Godric's Hollow, both would have looks of emotion on their faces. For one, Harry has only seen his parents in action(moving and speaking) when he was in the graveyard. To relive their deaths would be horrifying, probably even for DD, who seems to try and absorb some of Harry's pain.
I think sometimes we simplify James and Lily's lives to that moment in Godric's Hollow. There could be so much more information about them that moves the story line forward.
By looking at the US cover, I think Harry is reviewing one of his memories, due to the fact his is the only one holding a wand. I don't believe it is Godric's Hollow. he looks intent, but not emotional.
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Madam Pince - Mar 13, 2005 12:54 pm (#2912 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I don't think it necessarily has to be one of his own personal memories, just because it is Harry's wand that is being used. Remember, he used his wand to "prod" the Pensieve so that he could go into Dumbledore's memories of the trials, etc.
Good point about there being more to James and Lily than just that final night. They defied Voldemort three times, so each one might be very interesting!
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T Brightwater - Mar 13, 2005 1:36 pm (#2913 of 2923)
Maybe the incident they're looking at is Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 13, 2005 6:33 pm (#2914 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh how I hope you're right, T Brightwater!!!
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 13, 2005 8:30 pm (#2915 of 2923)
Betelgeuse - Thank you. I was almost swayed into thinking that maybe Snape was paying attention to the Mauraders. It never occurred to me that Snape was listening to them and I wasn't sure how Harry could hang around them and hear what they were saying when Snape couldn't have heard all that, but I didn't question it.
As you pointed out, while they were in the exam, there were definitely things Snape wasn't paying attention to that Harry could see. I don't know how the Pensieve works, but I think they could be looking at Godric's Hollow and the things that occurred that night even though Harry didn't actually "see" them happen. Thanks for doing the research!
Ginny
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veraco - Mar 14, 2005 3:47 am (#2916 of 2923)
I know a lot of people have post about the possible Pensieve in the US cover and the possibility that Harry is reviewing the memories of that faithful night at Godric's Hollow.
I post my ideas about this before, and just for the record, I think this is what is happening… or about to happen.
For me, it is about to happen, because if Harry where reviewing this particular memory he would be looking a lot more upset in the cover, as many of you have point out already.
But, if the cover show us the moment just before Harry uses the Pensieve, then he will look, at least to me, just like the US cover shows him, getting ready for what is to come, bracing himself for what he is about to see. And Dumbledore… well amaze, a bit curious and intense, being careful not to miss a detail and ready to support Harry if needed. After all, and as someone posted before, this time Dumbledore is the one watching Harry’s memories, trying am sure, to learn from them and if possible find a way to use them against Voldy.
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MoonRider - Mar 14, 2005 4:29 am (#2917 of 2923)
veraco: "But, if the cover show us the moment just before Harry uses the Pensieve...."
That's sort of what I was thinking.....
I'm thinking that Harry's just put his memories in the Pensieve, and DD is "swirling" it (when DD put his own memories in the Pensieve, I think he actually put both hands to the sides of the Pensieve and swirled it around), but instead of "proding" it like Harry did with his wand, I'm thinking DD is just making it swirl just by waving his hand over it. I don't think they're looking at anything, yet-----thus, no look of horror, or whatever-----just a look of anticipation, sort of.....
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 14, 2005 5:51 am (#2918 of 2923)
Having read all the theories, Jo doesn't need to update her website. With all the ideas keeping us busy she could give us the whole plot on the rumours page and we would miss it. Oh well - 4 months till HBP comes out. Ahhhhhhhhh!!
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Stringer - Mar 14, 2005 7:51 am (#2919 of 2923)
Veraco-That is a great idea. I never thought about it being the moment just before. Good thinking!
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So Sirius - Mar 14, 2005 10:29 am (#2920 of 2923)
Let us take it a step farther, perhaps Harry is mixing his memories with Dumbledores' memories and it's causing the turmoil we see on the cover?
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Stringer - Mar 14, 2005 3:20 pm (#2921 of 2923)
Ok here's an idea from my friend- There is the connection between Harry and Voldermort's minds, what if the connection becomes so strong Harry can extract memories from Voldermort's mind?
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MoonRider - Mar 14, 2005 6:36 pm (#2922 of 2923)
Stringer: WHOA-----THAT'S SERIOUS!
Geez, I'll have to ponder that one!
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 14, 2005 6:41 pm (#2923 of 2923)
Well, if Harry could extract memories from Voldemort then he would have to become a superb legilimens. Possible, but not probable.
Betelgeuse
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Let it snow!
I don't know, I think I may be more willing to eat my cereal, were it glowing green.... That would certainly be a neat novelty to get kids and grown-ups like me, who don't like breakfast, to eat their cereal without complaint....
Anyway, I think there is a lot of time missing in that scene from PS. I mean we see Voldemort opening the door, then Lily confronting him on the stairs, the doorway being blown off, and then Lily getting killed.... Where's the whole confrontation with James? Where's the scene of Voldemort entering the house and walking up the stairs?... Well, it's what they call jump cuts, where you jump to just the important aspects of a scene. So, us not seeing Lily put Harry down isn't that big a thing, really.
I think Harry will be revisiting that night in Godric's Hollow, despite how traumatic it might be, because I think he needs to know, and I think Dumbledore's finally realized that there are things Harry needs to know and that he can't keep them from our Hero without Harry being hurt by that lack of knowledge in the end....
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Madam Pince - Mar 12, 2005 12:43 pm (#2902 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Here, here! Let's hope Dumbledore has finally realized that, Sarah! If we have to wait until Book 7, I don't think I can stand it! I really think (hope?) the US cover is telling us that Dumbledore and Harry will be looking at the events at Godric's Hollow together... I don't know why I think that -- goodness knows there's plenty of other occasions where a greenish light has been utilized, and the whole green color thing might simply be artistic license. I guess it's just because that particular question (Godric's Hollow events) is number one on my personal "I-want-to-know!" list...
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penguin patronus - Mar 12, 2005 3:13 pm (#2903 of 2923)
"The map never lies!"
I'm, well, basically completely convinced that it's a pensieve on the cover, and they're are looking at the event in which Voldemort killed Harry's parents. I mean seriously, why else would it be all, like, glowing green? It has to be the death curse's glow, if not...well I don't know what it would be. Oh yeah! Funny thing! My sister said there was going to be a pensieve on the cover a long time ago, and it turned out to be true! Weird, huh?
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 12, 2005 4:27 pm (#2904 of 2923)
Ok, Penguin, who is your sister and how does she know this? Can you ask her a favour from me and get me six numbers for next Saturday's lottery draw?
Back to thread: Didn't someone say a few posts back that during an interview on Today (US programme) that the picture is a pensieve?
As for James and where he appears - we know he was killed just before Lily was killed because of the Priori Incantatem that occurred during the graveyard scene.
I have a small (and probably totally inaccurate theory) that DD's watch with the 12 hands is some kind of Time Turner Tracker device just in case one gets a little lost jumping around through time. I think DD went back and - knowing he couldn't alter much of what will happen - made just enough adjustment to ensure Harry's survival. Bizarre I know, but then...
Aurora xx
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haymoni - Mar 12, 2005 5:50 pm (#2905 of 2923)
I wonder if the pensieve on the cover is located somewhere in the MOM.
It could be THE Pensieve. If there is a room for prophesies, maybe there is a room for memories.
That could be why it is on the Pillar of Storge.
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Regan of Gong - Mar 12, 2005 6:29 pm (#2906 of 2923)
Self declared doctor of everything.
"I have thought that we might see Godric Gryffindor through the Penseive. I think it has been handed down and I think we will see him and learn some history about him." lobelia
Wouldn't it be great to see a confrontation between Godric and Salazar on the "pure blood-half blood" issue that they had so many years ago. Slightly off topic, I know, but I haven't had a chance to reply to that post for a couple of days.
Regan (of Gong)
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Thora - Mar 12, 2005 7:27 pm (#2907 of 2923)
Sorry if this has been posted but does anyone think that the UK children's cover might show some kind of pheonix-rebirth spell in which DD transfers powers or abilities to Harry? (I'm going to take this to the Recurring boy who lived theory thread too.)
Thora
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septentrion - Mar 13, 2005 2:29 am (#2908 of 2923)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Doesn't the UK childre cover remind of DD's spell in the DoM : Dumbledore had drawn back his wand and waved it as though brandishing a whip. A long thin flame flew from the tip; it wrapped itself around Voldemort, shield and all.
But why the flame is wrapped around Harry and DD, I can't say.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 13, 2005 7:37 am (#2909 of 2923)
Madam Pince,
I disagree with your assessment of Snape's paying attention to MWPP in the chapter "Snape's Worst Memory". I went back and read a portion again to make sure I wasn't mistaken.
When Harry "lands" in the memory in the pensieve, Snape is writing very fast on his exam paper with his nose an inch from the paper. Harry is able to wander about the whole room and see details that Snape couldn't possibly see. For instance, James is writing L.E. on his parchment and exchanging glances with Sirius. Harry notices a girl watching Sirius hopefully. Snape couldn't possibly have noticed all that while he is furiously answering exam questions.
Therefore, I believe that Harry and DD could be seeing scene at Godric's Hollow.
My guesses to what happens in HBP are driven by what specific things we don't know. We don't know what exactly happened at Godric's Hollow. We don't know what James and Lily did to defy Voldy three times and we don't know what their occupation was (alchemy?). We don't know why Voldemort didn't die. We don't know why Snape is trusted by DD. We don't know much about Lily and why Lupin seems to be so indebted to her. We don't know who was thrown from the Hog's Head during the prophesy.
I think the Scholastic cover shows a pensieve. My guess is that DD is showing Harry things about his parents. That's the biggest gap in our knowledge right now. I think we can learn a lot about James and Lily without giving the whole plot away. That seems to be JKR's style. Give just enough information to keep speculation at a maximum. Harry and DD seem intent but not upset. I think some of the other scenes would be very intense and the characters don't seem to be that emotional.
Betelgeuse
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Ydnam96 - Mar 13, 2005 8:53 am (#2910 of 2923)
To go in a different direction...anyone notice that so far (up until this cover) all the covers have been different colors. THis cover is green, just as the cover for GoF.
Does anyone see any significance there? The rebirthing of VM happened in that book, we learned about Fudge more in that book, also Ludo. We learned about Rita in that book. We learned about other wizarding schools...Really it was a turning point in the series. I wonder if the green covers have some significance (at least the US covers)
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Stringer - Mar 13, 2005 8:56 am (#2911 of 2923)
I believe if Harry and DD were reviewing the night at Godric's Hollow, both would have looks of emotion on their faces. For one, Harry has only seen his parents in action(moving and speaking) when he was in the graveyard. To relive their deaths would be horrifying, probably even for DD, who seems to try and absorb some of Harry's pain.
I think sometimes we simplify James and Lily's lives to that moment in Godric's Hollow. There could be so much more information about them that moves the story line forward.
By looking at the US cover, I think Harry is reviewing one of his memories, due to the fact his is the only one holding a wand. I don't believe it is Godric's Hollow. he looks intent, but not emotional.
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Madam Pince - Mar 13, 2005 12:54 pm (#2912 of 2923)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I don't think it necessarily has to be one of his own personal memories, just because it is Harry's wand that is being used. Remember, he used his wand to "prod" the Pensieve so that he could go into Dumbledore's memories of the trials, etc.
Good point about there being more to James and Lily than just that final night. They defied Voldemort three times, so each one might be very interesting!
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T Brightwater - Mar 13, 2005 1:36 pm (#2913 of 2923)
Maybe the incident they're looking at is Dumbledore's reason for trusting Snape.
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Gina R Snape - Mar 13, 2005 6:33 pm (#2914 of 2923)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh how I hope you're right, T Brightwater!!!
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 13, 2005 8:30 pm (#2915 of 2923)
Betelgeuse - Thank you. I was almost swayed into thinking that maybe Snape was paying attention to the Mauraders. It never occurred to me that Snape was listening to them and I wasn't sure how Harry could hang around them and hear what they were saying when Snape couldn't have heard all that, but I didn't question it.
As you pointed out, while they were in the exam, there were definitely things Snape wasn't paying attention to that Harry could see. I don't know how the Pensieve works, but I think they could be looking at Godric's Hollow and the things that occurred that night even though Harry didn't actually "see" them happen. Thanks for doing the research!
Ginny
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veraco - Mar 14, 2005 3:47 am (#2916 of 2923)
I know a lot of people have post about the possible Pensieve in the US cover and the possibility that Harry is reviewing the memories of that faithful night at Godric's Hollow.
I post my ideas about this before, and just for the record, I think this is what is happening… or about to happen.
For me, it is about to happen, because if Harry where reviewing this particular memory he would be looking a lot more upset in the cover, as many of you have point out already.
But, if the cover show us the moment just before Harry uses the Pensieve, then he will look, at least to me, just like the US cover shows him, getting ready for what is to come, bracing himself for what he is about to see. And Dumbledore… well amaze, a bit curious and intense, being careful not to miss a detail and ready to support Harry if needed. After all, and as someone posted before, this time Dumbledore is the one watching Harry’s memories, trying am sure, to learn from them and if possible find a way to use them against Voldy.
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MoonRider - Mar 14, 2005 4:29 am (#2917 of 2923)
veraco: "But, if the cover show us the moment just before Harry uses the Pensieve...."
That's sort of what I was thinking.....
I'm thinking that Harry's just put his memories in the Pensieve, and DD is "swirling" it (when DD put his own memories in the Pensieve, I think he actually put both hands to the sides of the Pensieve and swirled it around), but instead of "proding" it like Harry did with his wand, I'm thinking DD is just making it swirl just by waving his hand over it. I don't think they're looking at anything, yet-----thus, no look of horror, or whatever-----just a look of anticipation, sort of.....
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 14, 2005 5:51 am (#2918 of 2923)
Having read all the theories, Jo doesn't need to update her website. With all the ideas keeping us busy she could give us the whole plot on the rumours page and we would miss it. Oh well - 4 months till HBP comes out. Ahhhhhhhhh!!
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Stringer - Mar 14, 2005 7:51 am (#2919 of 2923)
Veraco-That is a great idea. I never thought about it being the moment just before. Good thinking!
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So Sirius - Mar 14, 2005 10:29 am (#2920 of 2923)
Let us take it a step farther, perhaps Harry is mixing his memories with Dumbledores' memories and it's causing the turmoil we see on the cover?
- - - - - - - - - -
Stringer - Mar 14, 2005 3:20 pm (#2921 of 2923)
Ok here's an idea from my friend- There is the connection between Harry and Voldermort's minds, what if the connection becomes so strong Harry can extract memories from Voldermort's mind?
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MoonRider - Mar 14, 2005 6:36 pm (#2922 of 2923)
Stringer: WHOA-----THAT'S SERIOUS!
Geez, I'll have to ponder that one!
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 14, 2005 6:41 pm (#2923 of 2923)
Well, if Harry could extract memories from Voldemort then he would have to become a superb legilimens. Possible, but not probable.
Betelgeuse
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