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HP6: The Half-Blood Prince
Elanor Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:15 am
HP6: The Half-Blood Prince
Kip Carter - Mar 15, 2005 1:38 am
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
Edited Jan 12, 2006 12:54 pm
When J.K. Rowling released the name of Book 6 of the Harry Potter series, immediately discussion jump into high gear concerning the title, Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince. The original thread was established by TGF on June 28, 2004 at 11:34am PST (Forum time). Quickly it became an extremely popular topic with the original thread approaching the maximum number of messages in less than nine months! How will this new thread fair over the next 122 days until the release of Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince on Saturday, July 16, 2005?
The title of the original thread has been changed to HP6: the Half Blood Prince (28 Jun 04 - 14 Mar 05) and will be in the bottom portion of this folder for those who are interested in what has been discussed. Later the original thread will be placed in the Archive folders area. You can click on the link above to go directly to the thread regardless of its location.
Below is the original text establishing the thread along with the notation concerning the changing of the original title by Sarah Jones:
-->I changed the title of this thread from 'Book 6 Title! *JKR.com spoilers*' to 'HP6: the Half Blood Prince'.<-- SE Jones
I'm not going to put the book in the subject line since people enjoy solving puzzles and getting rewards here... But Kip can edit it once everyone's had their fun.
But the title of the book is... "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The obvious questions now arise... who is the 'Half Blood Prince'? The obvious answer would appear to be Tom Riddle. I would to say off the bat that I don't think it can be Harry. That would make the title into 'Harry Potter and the Harry Potter'. The title alone establishes this Half-Blooded Prince as being a distinct entity from that of Harry.
The next question we might ask is who else could it be? I'm sure this title will bring out countless theories... Seamus Finnigan is a Half-Blood for instance, I'm sure many people will have thoughts on that.
Finally, we might speculate on what the plot may actually be...
This is the biggest HP news since OotP in my opinion. Things are certainly looking up!
HP6: The Half-Blood Prince Thread Index
This topic serves as an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum as hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. At that time, this thread was still set in the "Archived Thread to be Worked" folder of the WC forum. Elanor
Kip Carter - Mar 15, 2005 1:38 am
co-Host with Steve on the Lexicon Forum, but he has the final say as the Owner!
Edited Jan 12, 2006 12:54 pm
When J.K. Rowling released the name of Book 6 of the Harry Potter series, immediately discussion jump into high gear concerning the title, Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince. The original thread was established by TGF on June 28, 2004 at 11:34am PST (Forum time). Quickly it became an extremely popular topic with the original thread approaching the maximum number of messages in less than nine months! How will this new thread fair over the next 122 days until the release of Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince on Saturday, July 16, 2005?
The title of the original thread has been changed to HP6: the Half Blood Prince (28 Jun 04 - 14 Mar 05) and will be in the bottom portion of this folder for those who are interested in what has been discussed. Later the original thread will be placed in the Archive folders area. You can click on the link above to go directly to the thread regardless of its location.
Below is the original text establishing the thread along with the notation concerning the changing of the original title by Sarah Jones:
-->I changed the title of this thread from 'Book 6 Title! *JKR.com spoilers*' to 'HP6: the Half Blood Prince'.<-- SE Jones
I'm not going to put the book in the subject line since people enjoy solving puzzles and getting rewards here... But Kip can edit it once everyone's had their fun.
But the title of the book is... "Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
The obvious questions now arise... who is the 'Half Blood Prince'? The obvious answer would appear to be Tom Riddle. I would to say off the bat that I don't think it can be Harry. That would make the title into 'Harry Potter and the Harry Potter'. The title alone establishes this Half-Blooded Prince as being a distinct entity from that of Harry.
The next question we might ask is who else could it be? I'm sure this title will bring out countless theories... Seamus Finnigan is a Half-Blood for instance, I'm sure many people will have thoughts on that.
Finally, we might speculate on what the plot may actually be...
This is the biggest HP news since OotP in my opinion. Things are certainly looking up!
HP6: The Half-Blood Prince Thread Index
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Last edited by Elanor on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
Location : France
HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 1 to 50)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:13 am
Loopy Lupin - Mar 15, 2005 6:01 am (#1 of 1448)
Ok here's an idea from my friend- There is the connection between Harry and Voldermort's minds, what if the connection becomes so strong Harry can extract memories from Voldermort's mind? -- Stringer
w00t! I'm number 1! And, the above is a continuation of thoughts from the prior thread. I think the idea is intriguing. Harry already is able to delve into LV's present through Harry's own dreams. I see no reason why he couldn't expand that ability.
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MoaningMyrtle101 - Mar 15, 2005 10:41 am (#2 of 1448)
Sure, and help the Order by knowing exactly where the DE's will be before they get there. But it would work the other way around, too-- Voldie would find out about the Prophecy by reading Harry's mind. I think Voldie would be in better control of the connection and would use it more against Harry than the other way around.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 15, 2005 1:24 pm (#3 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I like Stringer's idea. On the old thread, people discussed whether or not Harry could extract and view his memory from the night his parents died, since he really didn't see much from his crib. Viewing the events at Godric's Hollow from Voldemort's perspective would be an interesting, and creepy, alternative.
And since this is a new thread, I just want to point out that the Half-Blood Prince is going to be Draco.
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Ladybug220 - Mar 15, 2005 2:16 pm (#4 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Vlad - how could that be since Draco has 2 pureblood parents?
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 15, 2005 3:29 pm (#5 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Ladybug, my theory is that we will find out the Malfoy side of Draco's family is not as pure as we've been led to believe. There really isn't any support for this in the books. I just think finding out that Lucius and Draco are not pure-bloods would have fit perfectly into the story of CoS, a book that at one time was going to be called HBP.
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MoaningMyrtle101 - Mar 15, 2005 3:42 pm (#6 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 15, 2005 2:43 pm
Even if Malfoy's blood isn't as pure as he says it is, I don't think JKR would name the title of Book 6 (or Book 2 for that matter) after Malfoy's dark secret. Draco seems to have trickled down to a minor annoyance in Harry's life. That might be an interesting little development, if she chooses to go there, but it doesn't seem like a major enough plot point to name a book after. It's a full-blown wizarding war, remember? Malfoy just doesn't matter as much anymore.
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Stringer - Mar 15, 2005 5:31 pm (#7 of 1448)
I hate to count characters out of the plot, stating they are not pivotal anymore-imagine if Malfoy had a change of heart. He could be pivotal in winning the war.
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Grindylow - Mar 15, 2005 5:37 pm (#8 of 1448)
Wouldn't it be strange if she did make a "Malfoy" the HBP? I mean, they hate "mudbloods" so much and if Draco found out that he really was a half-blood, he would FREAK! Maybe that is why Malfoy Sr. hates anyone but pure-blood so much?! I hope this is NOT the way the book goes, though. I would hate to think a whole book would be about one of the Malfoys....
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Mattew Bates - Mar 15, 2005 5:42 pm (#9 of 1448)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
Here's a curve ball out of left field:
What if the pensieve (I'm assuming it is one) belonged to Nicholas Flamel? Or, what if it belonged to someone else (a Hogwarts founder, perhaps) who gave it to Flamel? It would be a very expedient way for Dumbledore to be in posession of information from centuries past. Just for the record, I'm in the "Hogwarts Founder As Half-Blood Prince" camp.
And now, just to undercut my own idea, is there any evidence that pensieves can hold memories after the owner of those memories dies?
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Hollywand - Mar 15, 2005 5:55 pm (#10 of 1448)
Gryffindor
My sickles are on Vicktor Krum as the Half Blood Prince. Seeker, Dark Arts Wizard hero who helps Harry in his battle against Voldemort. Perhaps a half-blood heir to Salazar Slytherin, with Slytherin's leadership qualities and not his blood prejudice.
Perhaps the US cover shows Karakoff removing memories of Dumbledore and Harry so he can return to Voldemort.
Or, the pensieve belongs to Voldemort, and we are seeing him spying on Dumbldedore through Harry, as Dumbledore had feared in Order of the Phoenix. This would make Harry and Snape's failed Occlumency lessons even more tragic.
Perhaps the potions book we are looking at on the UK cover belongs to Voldemort.
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RuthJ - Mar 15, 2005 6:58 pm (#11 of 1448)
what if it belonged to someone else (a Hogwarts founder, perhaps) who gave it to Flamel? --Mattew Bates
Ooh, that's good. Do we know if Flamel's dates coincide w/ the foundation of Hogwarts? That would be interesting.
I'm in the "Hogwarts Founder As Half-Blood Prince" camp. Me, too, specifically Gryffindor. Although a few months back, when JKR gave us that excerpt describing the "lion man," some posters thought this would be Gryffindor. Either way, looks like a lot of people are hoping for more story on this founding father.
I actually hope the HBP isn't Krum, but that's mainly due to my automatic dislike/jealousy of him on behalf of Ron. But we know Hermione has kept in touch w/ him, so it's definitely possible he'll come back.
Edit: Sorry, just found out there's a "HBP & Nicholas Flamel" thread, so I'll go there w/ my questions & ideas.
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Ladybug220 - Mar 15, 2005 7:10 pm (#12 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Ahh, with that theory your comment makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining Vlad.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 15, 2005 7:57 pm (#13 of 1448)
Vlad,
Your post got me thinking about the pure-blood mania of Slytherin and the fact that Tom Riddle was a half-blood, yet the heir of Slytherin.
Could Draco be a half-blood? I'm not convinced yet but I have an idea to consider.
Harry chose not to be in Slytherin even after the sorting hat told him it would help him. We know that Hermione was considered for Ravenclaw but wound up in Gryffindor. I think Hermione chose to be Gryffindor.
Tom Riddle probably chose to be Slytherin even though he was a half-blood. By making that choice, Riddle had to conceal the fact that he was a half-blood. Draco and Lucius could have made the same choice because of ambition.
Oh well, perhaps the argument isn't presented that well but I thought it was worth posting.
Betelgeuse
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 15, 2005 10:13 pm (#14 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Mar 15, 2005 9:35 pm
Oooooh no Black, I think it's a very good idea indeed! How interesting!
I'm just gonna throw this out to get it back in the wash of topics. I'm interested in the UK cover of the HBP with the potions book. On the top of it there is a little white square peice of paper it has some letters written on it. I cant completly make it out but it looks like "some letter/ U or O/ and then R? If we can get the letters made out that could make a whole new discussion!
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Tomoé - Mar 15, 2005 10:58 pm (#15 of 1448)
Back in business
It is very unlikely for Krum to be the half-blood prince:
bertieana: Will we be seeing Krum again any time soon?
JK Rowling replies -> You will see Krum again, though not soon. (World Book Day Chat)
Which would mean, we don't see krum before book 7.
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Jo S - Mar 16, 2005 4:36 am (#16 of 1448)
The idea that Draco could be the halfblood prince is great. I have a theory that Draco will "switch" sides at some point and become a reluctant allie of Harry's (similar to snape and sirius perhaps).
Somebody else mentioned previously that Draco has become increasingly sidelined in the stories and is really now just a mere inconvenience to Harry, rather than an arch enemy. If Draco were to swap sides it would certainly put him in direct contact with Harry and no doubt they would continue to clash. This is why he continues to be intertwined in the story.... There must be some use for him in relation to Harry or else he wouldnt be there. Lets face it, in comparison to Voldemort, Draco is chicken feed to Harry.
I think that Draco will change sides after his father betrays him or leaves him for dead. After all, Draco appears to crave his fathers approval, although he rarely gets it. Draco may relise that he could never please his father and turn against him and thus towards dumbledore and consequently Harry. He would have a lot of useful information for Dumbledore, and Harry would certainly have alot of issues with him...
Didnt JKR say something about Harry having to master his feelings if he wants to be useful in the war???? Well he would certainly have some strong feelings to master if he suddenly found himself allied with Draco - the half blood prince!!
Any thoughts???
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Ponine - Mar 16, 2005 4:56 am (#17 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Jo, I think you are absolutely right about Draco! This indeed could even be considered the unusual pairing that there has been so much discussion about on the ship thread...
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Chemyst - Mar 16, 2005 7:00 am (#18 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
The thing I like about the Viktor as HBP idea is that if he dies, Ron can struggle to show Hermione compassion. The thing I like about Malfoy as HBP is the HB. Since the release of the covers, I now am toying with the idea that DD knew the HBP when he was younger and now "introduces" him to Harry via the Pensive.
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 16, 2005 8:13 am (#19 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Hmm Draco is a possiblity... I like you guys idea. What about the 3 initials on the potions book!?
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Grindylow - Mar 16, 2005 9:42 am (#20 of 1448)
Do you think it could be possible that Lucius knows that Draco is half-blood but Draco doesn't know? Could this be something he kept from his son and that will come out and that could be the reason for the changing of sides???
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GryffEndora - Mar 16, 2005 10:50 am (#21 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The most intriguing part of this Draco idea, to me, is that we've seen wizards turn to the Dark Arts because they were denied the love and/or approval of their father, so it would be interesting if Draco, not getting love/approval from Lucius rejects the Dark Arts that Daddy loves.
I'm still in the Gryffindor as HBP camp.
Someone on the last thread, I believe, said the letters on the Potions book cover were DOR and speculated that they were the last 3 letters in Gryffindor. I'll have to look for the post.
As for Viktor as HBP I don't think it can be him because I can't see how he would have worked into CoS.
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Eponine - Mar 16, 2005 4:49 pm (#22 of 1448)
Bloomsbury has updated their countdown calendar with a blurb for the 26th of the month. When you click on it, a window pops up with a description of the Basilisk.
The Basilisk is a brilliant green serpant that may reach up to fifty feet in length. The male has a scarlet plume upon its head. It has exceptionally venomous fangs but its most dangerous means of attack is the gaze of its large yellow eyes. Anyone looking directly into these will suffer instant death.
Then underneath it has a suggestion to check out Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. So, is it an ad or a clue?
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Denise P. - Mar 16, 2005 4:53 pm (#23 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Sorry to interrupt but I don't think this should be over on the chat thread.
I just got a call from my local bookstore about HBP. They are calling everyone who is on their advanced reserve list since apparently Scholastic sent an email saying they can't promise enough copies to fulfill all advance requests. I, of course, went into panic mode since I had already paid for a copy and had my little Hogwarts Express ticket to prove it. As soon as he heard I paid for one, he said I was fine. They can't promise a copy to those who just reserved one. Has anyone else had a call similar to this? This is not a small mom and pop store but a chain store (Books A Million).
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Hollywand - Mar 16, 2005 5:16 pm (#24 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Denise, I ordered mine through the World Crossing/Benefit the Lexicon option, I believe, when the banner ads were up through Amazon. I have heard nothing from Amazon. Either they are in cardiac arrest (I hear the book does have a lot of heart!)---but I bet it's some wonky prankster trying to whip up a pillar of storge.
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Denise P. - Mar 16, 2005 5:26 pm (#25 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
I know it was a legit call since I know the clerk who called me and they actually did call from the bookstore. I would be interested to know exactly what Scholastic told distributors...do we have any book store employees on the Forum?
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Eponine - Mar 16, 2005 5:53 pm (#26 of 1448)
Denise, what bookstore was it? I preordered mine from Barnes and Noble, but they didn't give me the option of paying for it now. I didn't ask, but they didn't offer either.
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Denise P. - Mar 16, 2005 6:06 pm (#27 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
It was Books A Million. I originally had myself on the reserve list but as soon as they made it available for pre-purchase, I got mine. They give you a Hogwarts Express train ticket and then you just hand over the ticket to get your book. They did the same thing for OoP. At midnight, the ticket line moved like the wind since they had the books already prebagged. You handed your ticket, you got a book and on to the next person. I was home by 12:30 to start reading
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ruthlesspenguin - Mar 16, 2005 7:51 pm (#28 of 1448)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Denise, I am no bookseller or anything, but I remember hearing reports on the news about similar things happening when OotP was released. From the sounds of it, the problem occured at the individual bookstores, who had not been careful in adding up the number of pre-orders they took. The publishers (in this case Bloomsbury), could not gaurantee more books on the release day, and so the bookshops just announced they would give them out on a first-come, first-served basis. From memory, I think there was even one bookshop that presold double the number of copies they would actually get. As I said, I have no idea if this is what happened in your case, but it sounds like it might be similar.
<(')
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Star Crossed - Mar 16, 2005 8:32 pm (#29 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Okay, now I am extremely worried. I ordered mine and they don't let you pay beforehand. I /will/ be the first there.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 17, 2005 2:20 am (#30 of 1448)
I have to work on the launch date. So I will get mine on the way home. Actually I have pre-ordered two copies. Being in the UK we have a different adult version. I want to study the potions book properly.
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Thora - Mar 17, 2005 8:11 am (#31 of 1448)
Well I emailed Scholastic but all I got was a response that thanked me for contacting them. I'll post if they answer me.
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Steve Newton - Mar 17, 2005 8:13 am (#32 of 1448)
Librarian
I had a friend ask me last night about the audio edition read by Jim Dale. He says that the other books have had simultaneous release of the print and audio. I can find no record of the HBP audio books anywhere. Has anyone heard anything?
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Phoenix song - Mar 17, 2005 9:20 am (#33 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Steve, I'm wondering about the audio release as well. I was hoping that I could order the audio UK version with Stephen Frye, but I haven't found anything that indicates when it will be available. Does anyone know or have any idea who we could ask?
Barbie
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Miriam Huber - Mar 17, 2005 10:52 am (#34 of 1448)
Back to the covers, I haven´t really an idea to suggest, but I noticed Dumbledore looks shocked or something like that on the Bloomsbury cover. And as far as we know, until now he sounded frightened only once: in the MoM when Voldemort vanished and DD realized he was going to possess Harry. He was not frightened at all when he battled with Voldemort.
That makes me wonder what horrors JKR has in store for DD, for Harry and for us in HBP???
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 17, 2005 11:24 am (#35 of 1448)
Phoenix Song - her in the UK the audio version for OoP came out about three months after the book. Yes it was a big book but this wasn't too bad. I would guess it would be out in around October 2005. The UK audio book is published by BBC Worldwide The best website to keep an eye on is the audiobook collection [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] were they have a page dedicated to Harry Potter. I hope this helps.
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 17, 2005 11:54 am (#36 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Mar 17, 2005 10:57 am
Hey yall! Whoa! I was just about to preorder from my neighborhood books a million store! I think ill still do it but im gonna ask them a few questions first. Have
you all noticed that on the book cover for UK adult on the cover of the potions book there is a SIGNITURE!? NOT the 3 letters I was talking about before "DOR"
but an actual signiture!? its on the mid left of the potions book cover! If anyone has photoshop or something try to blow it up or something and tell me what you
think it says. Is it the artist's signiture? Or is it part of the book?!
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lilysmom - Mar 17, 2005 12:53 pm (#37 of 1448)
OK...this is my first "real" post and I hope it is in the right place. I have been out of the office for the last few days and have not been able to keep up with the thread. I apologize for just now posting this, but something I read on a post on the old thread sparked an idea.
I think it was Aurora Gubbins who suggested that maybe Harry would find the potions book on the UK cover under a creaky floor board at Privet Drive. Well...what if Spinners End is the Evan's family home. The reason why Harry leaves Privet Drive early is because Petunia takes Harry to Spinners End to learn more about his family. While he is there he finds Lily's old potions book. Maybe it could be useful for defeating Voldemort.
Just a thought...let me know what you guys think.
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Dragonesss - Mar 17, 2005 1:11 pm (#38 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 17, 2005 12:25 pm
Steve Newton and Phoenix Song
Amazon.com has HBP on Audio Cassette
(Special Order; Publisher: Listening Library (T); June 30, 2005; ISBN: 9990031185 ), but there is not much info - how to order? or why June 30?
It is item #4 here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Or you can search Amazon for "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince : Year 6 by J. K. Rowling", it cames first.
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Steve Newton - Mar 17, 2005 1:38 pm (#39 of 1448)
Librarian
Geez, I looked last night and today and didn't find it. You must have the magic touch. Thanks.
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Dragonesss - Mar 17, 2005 1:44 pm (#40 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 17, 2005 12:48 pm
Listening Library doesen't have HBP on its website, but I searched Google by "ISBN: 9990031185" and found only one page that contanes 2 HBP audio aditions (last two). It is Direct Text Book, adresss - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Steve, I look every day. Sometimes more then once. ))))
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Steve Newton - Mar 17, 2005 1:58 pm (#41 of 1448)
Librarian
But, I'm a librarian.
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MoonRider - Mar 17, 2005 3:50 pm (#42 of 1448)
lilysmom: "Well...what if Spinners End is the Evan's family home."
I'm thinking I said something very similar to this quite some time ago.....
What got me on this particular band-wagon, was when I re-read the book and the part about them "going into hiding" at Godric's Hollow made me think: "Well, where did they come from?". So, I'm thinking this is a very good theory.
Thomas Phifer: I finally got a chance-----I've been wanting to blow-up that picture, and have a look-see.....
well-----I'd never seen it before, but the very first thing I saw was what looked like "Tom"-----on the far righthand (northeast) portion of that label on the potions book!
Sometimes-----like, have you ever been working real hard on something-----looking for something------and then, all-of-a-sudden, when you stop looking, ya find it? If it does, in fact, say "Tom", that's how I found it! LOL
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pottermom34 - Mar 17, 2005 4:14 pm (#43 of 1448)
I like your idea Lilysmom except for one thing, I can't see Pet showing or telling Harry anything about his family, although maybe the howler from DD opened her eyes a little.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 17, 2005 4:19 pm (#44 of 1448)
About Draco being the HBP: Does anyone remember how the names of his parents fell on the Black Family Tree? I've recently discovered that the woman my Grandfather and his siblings thought was their Grandmother, wasn't. Their grandfather married again when their mother was 2 years old. Thinking about this in my world and Tom Riddle in the Potterverse, it just seems so easy to deny/hide one's heritage or bloodline. Riddle did such a good job that even the Sorting Hat broke one of it's rules and put him in Slytherin - the house for Pure bloods.
Aurora xx
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 17, 2005 6:13 pm (#45 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Aurora, the Black sister, Bella, Andromeda(burned off) and Narcissa, are beside each other on the tapestry. The names of the spouses of the two remaining sisters are connected to their wives by two lines of gold embroidery. I assume that all names above the sisters are their ancestors, not Lucius' or Rodolphus'. Both of these men were added because the Blacks thought they were pure-bloods, but mistakes can be made, as in the case of your great-great grandparents.
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Phoenix song - Mar 17, 2005 6:27 pm (#46 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Phelim Mcintyre and Dragoness, thank you for your help with the HBP audios. Dragoness, you MUST have the magic touch. Like Steve, I've been looking on Amazon regularly and have come up with "nada". I was afraid that I'd have to settle for the version that we get here, even though I had my heart set on the UK version with Stephen Frye. (He's really great if anybody is wondering!) I'm going to be sure to check the site out right now!
Barbie
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Jo S - Mar 17, 2005 10:54 pm (#47 of 1448)
I think that Draco is the half blood prince, but Im not sure how he can be half blood... I will have to ponder this.
Even if Draco is not the HBP, I still think that he will turn against his father. Im not convinced that gryffindor is the HBP as it seems too obvious. The cogs in my head are turning to quickly to cope at the moment...
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 18, 2005 1:37 am (#48 of 1448)
Pheonix Song - Stephen Fry's last name has no e. This may help your search. But poor Stephen. While we will be re-reading HBP enjoying the sun, he will be locked in a studio recording the audio book. No icecream until its finished. ; )
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Chemyst - Mar 18, 2005 6:39 am (#49 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
You know, Phelim, I am just crying buckets for poor Stephen right now. Imagine having to be paid to read HP.
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 18, 2005 8:57 am (#50 of 1448)
Hi,
I don't think that Draco is the Half-Blood Prince. The evidence of the Black family tapestry is sufficient.
1.The only names that remain on the tapestry are those that Sirius' mother did not burn off. For instance, Sirius was burned off because he was a blood-traitor. That is, he didn't agree with his mother's position regarding purity of blood. Tonks isn't on, nor is her mother, because of the marriage to Ted Tonks. Neither Molly, Arthur nor any of their families are on because Sirius' mother considered them to be blood-traitors.
There is no doubt that both Sirius' mother and father would have thoroughly investigated the parentage of Lucius Malfoy. There is no doubt that they would both have approved of the marriage, else Narcissa would have been burned off.
2. We must also consider Lucius's manor. From what we can glean, not only is this his home, but it is his ancestral home. His is described as an old family, with lots of money and power.
3. We must also consider Dobby. House elfs live in manors with old, established and wealthy families. We know of three elves. All three come from pure-blood families.
4. We must also consider the genetic traits ascribed to Draco. Like all of us, he is definitely a combination of his father and his mother. Draco has his father's face and hair. He has his mother's mouth and expression.
From all that we know, we must conclude that Draco is exactly what he appears to be. He's a pure-blood brat.
Thanks
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Ok here's an idea from my friend- There is the connection between Harry and Voldermort's minds, what if the connection becomes so strong Harry can extract memories from Voldermort's mind? -- Stringer
w00t! I'm number 1! And, the above is a continuation of thoughts from the prior thread. I think the idea is intriguing. Harry already is able to delve into LV's present through Harry's own dreams. I see no reason why he couldn't expand that ability.
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MoaningMyrtle101 - Mar 15, 2005 10:41 am (#2 of 1448)
Sure, and help the Order by knowing exactly where the DE's will be before they get there. But it would work the other way around, too-- Voldie would find out about the Prophecy by reading Harry's mind. I think Voldie would be in better control of the connection and would use it more against Harry than the other way around.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 15, 2005 1:24 pm (#3 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I like Stringer's idea. On the old thread, people discussed whether or not Harry could extract and view his memory from the night his parents died, since he really didn't see much from his crib. Viewing the events at Godric's Hollow from Voldemort's perspective would be an interesting, and creepy, alternative.
And since this is a new thread, I just want to point out that the Half-Blood Prince is going to be Draco.
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Ladybug220 - Mar 15, 2005 2:16 pm (#4 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Vlad - how could that be since Draco has 2 pureblood parents?
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 15, 2005 3:29 pm (#5 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Ladybug, my theory is that we will find out the Malfoy side of Draco's family is not as pure as we've been led to believe. There really isn't any support for this in the books. I just think finding out that Lucius and Draco are not pure-bloods would have fit perfectly into the story of CoS, a book that at one time was going to be called HBP.
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MoaningMyrtle101 - Mar 15, 2005 3:42 pm (#6 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 15, 2005 2:43 pm
Even if Malfoy's blood isn't as pure as he says it is, I don't think JKR would name the title of Book 6 (or Book 2 for that matter) after Malfoy's dark secret. Draco seems to have trickled down to a minor annoyance in Harry's life. That might be an interesting little development, if she chooses to go there, but it doesn't seem like a major enough plot point to name a book after. It's a full-blown wizarding war, remember? Malfoy just doesn't matter as much anymore.
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Stringer - Mar 15, 2005 5:31 pm (#7 of 1448)
I hate to count characters out of the plot, stating they are not pivotal anymore-imagine if Malfoy had a change of heart. He could be pivotal in winning the war.
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Grindylow - Mar 15, 2005 5:37 pm (#8 of 1448)
Wouldn't it be strange if she did make a "Malfoy" the HBP? I mean, they hate "mudbloods" so much and if Draco found out that he really was a half-blood, he would FREAK! Maybe that is why Malfoy Sr. hates anyone but pure-blood so much?! I hope this is NOT the way the book goes, though. I would hate to think a whole book would be about one of the Malfoys....
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Mattew Bates - Mar 15, 2005 5:42 pm (#9 of 1448)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
Here's a curve ball out of left field:
What if the pensieve (I'm assuming it is one) belonged to Nicholas Flamel? Or, what if it belonged to someone else (a Hogwarts founder, perhaps) who gave it to Flamel? It would be a very expedient way for Dumbledore to be in posession of information from centuries past. Just for the record, I'm in the "Hogwarts Founder As Half-Blood Prince" camp.
And now, just to undercut my own idea, is there any evidence that pensieves can hold memories after the owner of those memories dies?
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Hollywand - Mar 15, 2005 5:55 pm (#10 of 1448)
Gryffindor
My sickles are on Vicktor Krum as the Half Blood Prince. Seeker, Dark Arts Wizard hero who helps Harry in his battle against Voldemort. Perhaps a half-blood heir to Salazar Slytherin, with Slytherin's leadership qualities and not his blood prejudice.
Perhaps the US cover shows Karakoff removing memories of Dumbledore and Harry so he can return to Voldemort.
Or, the pensieve belongs to Voldemort, and we are seeing him spying on Dumbldedore through Harry, as Dumbledore had feared in Order of the Phoenix. This would make Harry and Snape's failed Occlumency lessons even more tragic.
Perhaps the potions book we are looking at on the UK cover belongs to Voldemort.
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RuthJ - Mar 15, 2005 6:58 pm (#11 of 1448)
what if it belonged to someone else (a Hogwarts founder, perhaps) who gave it to Flamel? --Mattew Bates
Ooh, that's good. Do we know if Flamel's dates coincide w/ the foundation of Hogwarts? That would be interesting.
I'm in the "Hogwarts Founder As Half-Blood Prince" camp. Me, too, specifically Gryffindor. Although a few months back, when JKR gave us that excerpt describing the "lion man," some posters thought this would be Gryffindor. Either way, looks like a lot of people are hoping for more story on this founding father.
I actually hope the HBP isn't Krum, but that's mainly due to my automatic dislike/jealousy of him on behalf of Ron. But we know Hermione has kept in touch w/ him, so it's definitely possible he'll come back.
Edit: Sorry, just found out there's a "HBP & Nicholas Flamel" thread, so I'll go there w/ my questions & ideas.
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Ladybug220 - Mar 15, 2005 7:10 pm (#12 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Ahh, with that theory your comment makes a lot more sense. Thanks for explaining Vlad.
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Betelgeuse Black - Mar 15, 2005 7:57 pm (#13 of 1448)
Vlad,
Your post got me thinking about the pure-blood mania of Slytherin and the fact that Tom Riddle was a half-blood, yet the heir of Slytherin.
Could Draco be a half-blood? I'm not convinced yet but I have an idea to consider.
Harry chose not to be in Slytherin even after the sorting hat told him it would help him. We know that Hermione was considered for Ravenclaw but wound up in Gryffindor. I think Hermione chose to be Gryffindor.
Tom Riddle probably chose to be Slytherin even though he was a half-blood. By making that choice, Riddle had to conceal the fact that he was a half-blood. Draco and Lucius could have made the same choice because of ambition.
Oh well, perhaps the argument isn't presented that well but I thought it was worth posting.
Betelgeuse
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 15, 2005 10:13 pm (#14 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Mar 15, 2005 9:35 pm
Oooooh no Black, I think it's a very good idea indeed! How interesting!
I'm just gonna throw this out to get it back in the wash of topics. I'm interested in the UK cover of the HBP with the potions book. On the top of it there is a little white square peice of paper it has some letters written on it. I cant completly make it out but it looks like "some letter/ U or O/ and then R? If we can get the letters made out that could make a whole new discussion! - - - - - - - - - -
Tomoé - Mar 15, 2005 10:58 pm (#15 of 1448)
Back in business
It is very unlikely for Krum to be the half-blood prince:
bertieana: Will we be seeing Krum again any time soon?
JK Rowling replies -> You will see Krum again, though not soon. (World Book Day Chat)
Which would mean, we don't see krum before book 7.
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Jo S - Mar 16, 2005 4:36 am (#16 of 1448)
The idea that Draco could be the halfblood prince is great. I have a theory that Draco will "switch" sides at some point and become a reluctant allie of Harry's (similar to snape and sirius perhaps).
Somebody else mentioned previously that Draco has become increasingly sidelined in the stories and is really now just a mere inconvenience to Harry, rather than an arch enemy. If Draco were to swap sides it would certainly put him in direct contact with Harry and no doubt they would continue to clash. This is why he continues to be intertwined in the story.... There must be some use for him in relation to Harry or else he wouldnt be there. Lets face it, in comparison to Voldemort, Draco is chicken feed to Harry.
I think that Draco will change sides after his father betrays him or leaves him for dead. After all, Draco appears to crave his fathers approval, although he rarely gets it. Draco may relise that he could never please his father and turn against him and thus towards dumbledore and consequently Harry. He would have a lot of useful information for Dumbledore, and Harry would certainly have alot of issues with him...
Didnt JKR say something about Harry having to master his feelings if he wants to be useful in the war???? Well he would certainly have some strong feelings to master if he suddenly found himself allied with Draco - the half blood prince!!
Any thoughts???
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Ponine - Mar 16, 2005 4:56 am (#17 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Jo, I think you are absolutely right about Draco! This indeed could even be considered the unusual pairing that there has been so much discussion about on the ship thread...
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Chemyst - Mar 16, 2005 7:00 am (#18 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
The thing I like about the Viktor as HBP idea is that if he dies, Ron can struggle to show Hermione compassion. The thing I like about Malfoy as HBP is the HB. Since the release of the covers, I now am toying with the idea that DD knew the HBP when he was younger and now "introduces" him to Harry via the Pensive.
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 16, 2005 8:13 am (#19 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Hmm Draco is a possiblity... I like you guys idea. What about the 3 initials on the potions book!?
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Grindylow - Mar 16, 2005 9:42 am (#20 of 1448)
Do you think it could be possible that Lucius knows that Draco is half-blood but Draco doesn't know? Could this be something he kept from his son and that will come out and that could be the reason for the changing of sides???
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GryffEndora - Mar 16, 2005 10:50 am (#21 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The most intriguing part of this Draco idea, to me, is that we've seen wizards turn to the Dark Arts because they were denied the love and/or approval of their father, so it would be interesting if Draco, not getting love/approval from Lucius rejects the Dark Arts that Daddy loves.
I'm still in the Gryffindor as HBP camp.
Someone on the last thread, I believe, said the letters on the Potions book cover were DOR and speculated that they were the last 3 letters in Gryffindor. I'll have to look for the post.
As for Viktor as HBP I don't think it can be him because I can't see how he would have worked into CoS.
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Eponine - Mar 16, 2005 4:49 pm (#22 of 1448)
Bloomsbury has updated their countdown calendar with a blurb for the 26th of the month. When you click on it, a window pops up with a description of the Basilisk.
The Basilisk is a brilliant green serpant that may reach up to fifty feet in length. The male has a scarlet plume upon its head. It has exceptionally venomous fangs but its most dangerous means of attack is the gaze of its large yellow eyes. Anyone looking directly into these will suffer instant death.
Then underneath it has a suggestion to check out Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. So, is it an ad or a clue?
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Denise P. - Mar 16, 2005 4:53 pm (#23 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Sorry to interrupt but I don't think this should be over on the chat thread.
I just got a call from my local bookstore about HBP. They are calling everyone who is on their advanced reserve list since apparently Scholastic sent an email saying they can't promise enough copies to fulfill all advance requests. I, of course, went into panic mode since I had already paid for a copy and had my little Hogwarts Express ticket to prove it. As soon as he heard I paid for one, he said I was fine. They can't promise a copy to those who just reserved one. Has anyone else had a call similar to this? This is not a small mom and pop store but a chain store (Books A Million).
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Hollywand - Mar 16, 2005 5:16 pm (#24 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Denise, I ordered mine through the World Crossing/Benefit the Lexicon option, I believe, when the banner ads were up through Amazon. I have heard nothing from Amazon. Either they are in cardiac arrest (I hear the book does have a lot of heart!)---but I bet it's some wonky prankster trying to whip up a pillar of storge.
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Denise P. - Mar 16, 2005 5:26 pm (#25 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
I know it was a legit call since I know the clerk who called me and they actually did call from the bookstore. I would be interested to know exactly what Scholastic told distributors...do we have any book store employees on the Forum?
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Eponine - Mar 16, 2005 5:53 pm (#26 of 1448)
Denise, what bookstore was it? I preordered mine from Barnes and Noble, but they didn't give me the option of paying for it now. I didn't ask, but they didn't offer either.
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Denise P. - Mar 16, 2005 6:06 pm (#27 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
It was Books A Million. I originally had myself on the reserve list but as soon as they made it available for pre-purchase, I got mine. They give you a Hogwarts Express train ticket and then you just hand over the ticket to get your book. They did the same thing for OoP. At midnight, the ticket line moved like the wind since they had the books already prebagged. You handed your ticket, you got a book and on to the next person. I was home by 12:30 to start reading
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ruthlesspenguin - Mar 16, 2005 7:51 pm (#28 of 1448)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Denise, I am no bookseller or anything, but I remember hearing reports on the news about similar things happening when OotP was released. From the sounds of it, the problem occured at the individual bookstores, who had not been careful in adding up the number of pre-orders they took. The publishers (in this case Bloomsbury), could not gaurantee more books on the release day, and so the bookshops just announced they would give them out on a first-come, first-served basis. From memory, I think there was even one bookshop that presold double the number of copies they would actually get. As I said, I have no idea if this is what happened in your case, but it sounds like it might be similar.
<(')
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Star Crossed - Mar 16, 2005 8:32 pm (#29 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Okay, now I am extremely worried. I ordered mine and they don't let you pay beforehand. I /will/ be the first there.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 17, 2005 2:20 am (#30 of 1448)
I have to work on the launch date. So I will get mine on the way home. Actually I have pre-ordered two copies. Being in the UK we have a different adult version. I want to study the potions book properly.
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Thora - Mar 17, 2005 8:11 am (#31 of 1448)
Well I emailed Scholastic but all I got was a response that thanked me for contacting them. I'll post if they answer me.
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Steve Newton - Mar 17, 2005 8:13 am (#32 of 1448)
Librarian
I had a friend ask me last night about the audio edition read by Jim Dale. He says that the other books have had simultaneous release of the print and audio. I can find no record of the HBP audio books anywhere. Has anyone heard anything?
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Phoenix song - Mar 17, 2005 9:20 am (#33 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Steve, I'm wondering about the audio release as well. I was hoping that I could order the audio UK version with Stephen Frye, but I haven't found anything that indicates when it will be available. Does anyone know or have any idea who we could ask?
Barbie
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Miriam Huber - Mar 17, 2005 10:52 am (#34 of 1448)
Back to the covers, I haven´t really an idea to suggest, but I noticed Dumbledore looks shocked or something like that on the Bloomsbury cover. And as far as we know, until now he sounded frightened only once: in the MoM when Voldemort vanished and DD realized he was going to possess Harry. He was not frightened at all when he battled with Voldemort.
That makes me wonder what horrors JKR has in store for DD, for Harry and for us in HBP???
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 17, 2005 11:24 am (#35 of 1448)
Phoenix Song - her in the UK the audio version for OoP came out about three months after the book. Yes it was a big book but this wasn't too bad. I would guess it would be out in around October 2005. The UK audio book is published by BBC Worldwide The best website to keep an eye on is the audiobook collection [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] were they have a page dedicated to Harry Potter. I hope this helps.
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 17, 2005 11:54 am (#36 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Mar 17, 2005 10:57 am
Hey yall! Whoa! I was just about to preorder from my neighborhood books a million store! I think ill still do it but im gonna ask them a few questions first. Have
you all noticed that on the book cover for UK adult on the cover of the potions book there is a SIGNITURE!? NOT the 3 letters I was talking about before "DOR"
but an actual signiture!? its on the mid left of the potions book cover! If anyone has photoshop or something try to blow it up or something and tell me what you
think it says. Is it the artist's signiture? Or is it part of the book?!
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lilysmom - Mar 17, 2005 12:53 pm (#37 of 1448)
OK...this is my first "real" post and I hope it is in the right place. I have been out of the office for the last few days and have not been able to keep up with the thread. I apologize for just now posting this, but something I read on a post on the old thread sparked an idea.
I think it was Aurora Gubbins who suggested that maybe Harry would find the potions book on the UK cover under a creaky floor board at Privet Drive. Well...what if Spinners End is the Evan's family home. The reason why Harry leaves Privet Drive early is because Petunia takes Harry to Spinners End to learn more about his family. While he is there he finds Lily's old potions book. Maybe it could be useful for defeating Voldemort.
Just a thought...let me know what you guys think.
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Dragonesss - Mar 17, 2005 1:11 pm (#38 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 17, 2005 12:25 pm
Steve Newton and Phoenix Song
Amazon.com has HBP on Audio Cassette
(Special Order; Publisher: Listening Library (T); June 30, 2005; ISBN: 9990031185 ), but there is not much info - how to order? or why June 30?
It is item #4 here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Or you can search Amazon for "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince : Year 6 by J. K. Rowling", it cames first.
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Steve Newton - Mar 17, 2005 1:38 pm (#39 of 1448)
Librarian
Geez, I looked last night and today and didn't find it. You must have the magic touch. Thanks.
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Dragonesss - Mar 17, 2005 1:44 pm (#40 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 17, 2005 12:48 pm
Listening Library doesen't have HBP on its website, but I searched Google by "ISBN: 9990031185" and found only one page that contanes 2 HBP audio aditions (last two). It is Direct Text Book, adresss - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Steve, I look every day. Sometimes more then once. ))))
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Steve Newton - Mar 17, 2005 1:58 pm (#41 of 1448)
Librarian
But, I'm a librarian.
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MoonRider - Mar 17, 2005 3:50 pm (#42 of 1448)
lilysmom: "Well...what if Spinners End is the Evan's family home."
I'm thinking I said something very similar to this quite some time ago.....
What got me on this particular band-wagon, was when I re-read the book and the part about them "going into hiding" at Godric's Hollow made me think: "Well, where did they come from?". So, I'm thinking this is a very good theory.
Thomas Phifer: I finally got a chance-----I've been wanting to blow-up that picture, and have a look-see.....
well-----I'd never seen it before, but the very first thing I saw was what looked like "Tom"-----on the far righthand (northeast) portion of that label on the potions book!
Sometimes-----like, have you ever been working real hard on something-----looking for something------and then, all-of-a-sudden, when you stop looking, ya find it? If it does, in fact, say "Tom", that's how I found it! LOL
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pottermom34 - Mar 17, 2005 4:14 pm (#43 of 1448)
I like your idea Lilysmom except for one thing, I can't see Pet showing or telling Harry anything about his family, although maybe the howler from DD opened her eyes a little.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 17, 2005 4:19 pm (#44 of 1448)
About Draco being the HBP: Does anyone remember how the names of his parents fell on the Black Family Tree? I've recently discovered that the woman my Grandfather and his siblings thought was their Grandmother, wasn't. Their grandfather married again when their mother was 2 years old. Thinking about this in my world and Tom Riddle in the Potterverse, it just seems so easy to deny/hide one's heritage or bloodline. Riddle did such a good job that even the Sorting Hat broke one of it's rules and put him in Slytherin - the house for Pure bloods.
Aurora xx
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 17, 2005 6:13 pm (#45 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Aurora, the Black sister, Bella, Andromeda(burned off) and Narcissa, are beside each other on the tapestry. The names of the spouses of the two remaining sisters are connected to their wives by two lines of gold embroidery. I assume that all names above the sisters are their ancestors, not Lucius' or Rodolphus'. Both of these men were added because the Blacks thought they were pure-bloods, but mistakes can be made, as in the case of your great-great grandparents.
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Phoenix song - Mar 17, 2005 6:27 pm (#46 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Phelim Mcintyre and Dragoness, thank you for your help with the HBP audios. Dragoness, you MUST have the magic touch. Like Steve, I've been looking on Amazon regularly and have come up with "nada". I was afraid that I'd have to settle for the version that we get here, even though I had my heart set on the UK version with Stephen Frye. (He's really great if anybody is wondering!) I'm going to be sure to check the site out right now!
Barbie
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Jo S - Mar 17, 2005 10:54 pm (#47 of 1448)
I think that Draco is the half blood prince, but Im not sure how he can be half blood... I will have to ponder this.
Even if Draco is not the HBP, I still think that he will turn against his father. Im not convinced that gryffindor is the HBP as it seems too obvious. The cogs in my head are turning to quickly to cope at the moment...
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Phelim Mcintyre - Mar 18, 2005 1:37 am (#48 of 1448)
Pheonix Song - Stephen Fry's last name has no e. This may help your search. But poor Stephen. While we will be re-reading HBP enjoying the sun, he will be locked in a studio recording the audio book. No icecream until its finished. ; )
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Chemyst - Mar 18, 2005 6:39 am (#49 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
You know, Phelim, I am just crying buckets for poor Stephen right now. Imagine having to be paid to read HP.
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 18, 2005 8:57 am (#50 of 1448)
Hi,
I don't think that Draco is the Half-Blood Prince. The evidence of the Black family tapestry is sufficient.
1.The only names that remain on the tapestry are those that Sirius' mother did not burn off. For instance, Sirius was burned off because he was a blood-traitor. That is, he didn't agree with his mother's position regarding purity of blood. Tonks isn't on, nor is her mother, because of the marriage to Ted Tonks. Neither Molly, Arthur nor any of their families are on because Sirius' mother considered them to be blood-traitors.
There is no doubt that both Sirius' mother and father would have thoroughly investigated the parentage of Lucius Malfoy. There is no doubt that they would both have approved of the marriage, else Narcissa would have been burned off.
2. We must also consider Lucius's manor. From what we can glean, not only is this his home, but it is his ancestral home. His is described as an old family, with lots of money and power.
3. We must also consider Dobby. House elfs live in manors with old, established and wealthy families. We know of three elves. All three come from pure-blood families.
4. We must also consider the genetic traits ascribed to Draco. Like all of us, he is definitely a combination of his father and his mother. Draco has his father's face and hair. He has his mother's mouth and expression.
From all that we know, we must conclude that Draco is exactly what he appears to be. He's a pure-blood brat.
Thanks
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 51 to 100)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:14 am
chocfrogger1 - Mar 18, 2005 10:04 am (#51 of 1448)
Thanks for post #42 Moonrider, I was thinking that there must be some clue lurking in plain sight on the Bloomsbury cover of HBP (the one with the potions book). After I saw your post, I put the image into one of my photo programs, and you can definitely see a handwritten word, Tom, in the upper right corner, where the thick cover has peeled away.
This leads us to the idea that this is LV's book, and that he likely is not the original owner, as a new owner would put their name on the fresh inside of a book. I think it was already beat up by the time LV got it. That leads us to the question of who was the original owner, and what kind of notes are now scribbled in those margins?! And where has this book been up to this point? And can it even be opened safely? (remember what happened when Ginny opened his diary).
It seems like a great weapon for the Order if they have the recipe book for all LV's protective/life preserving spells.
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Catherine - Mar 18, 2005 10:47 am (#52 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
They can't promise a copy to those who just reserved one. Has anyone else had a call similar to this? --Denise
I haven't heard of such a phone call, but my brother "reserved" a copy of OoP from a Books A Million but had to go out of town and couldn't pick his book up until late Saturday. They had sold his copy, and had no copies left.
He was most irate. Perhaps they are anticipating such problems again, and are trying to fend off problems?
Also, there have been weird emails about HBP in the past, most of which were glitches or wrong, so maybe Books A Million got one of those weirdo emails and went into panic mode themselves.
Back to the regularly scheduled program....
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MoonRider - Mar 18, 2005 12:27 pm (#53 of 1448)
chocfrogger1: You're quite welcome!
"That leads us to the question of who was the original owner, and what kind of notes are now scribbled in those margins?!"
How about Grindelwald? (The Dark Wizard that DD defeated in 1945) Remember DD, I think it was, telling Harry that LV went all over the place learning the Dark Arts? Maybe----as I think someone else has suggested-----LV learned some stuff from Grindelwald! If DD can still be living, so can he (Grindelwald)!
"It seems like a great weapon for the Order if they have the recipe book for all LV's protective/life preserving spells."
YEAH-----I like that idea!
Good job!!
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popkin - Mar 18, 2005 1:15 pm (#54 of 1448)
mother
Going back many, many posts to the pensieve discussion, I was wondering why (in OotP) did JKR have Snape borrow Dumbledore's pensieve? Why didn't he have his own? It could just be that pensieves are rare magical items, or it could be that she wanted to establish that a wizard could put his own thoughts into someone else's pensieve.
What if Dumbledore uses Godric Gryffindor's old pensieve, and Gryffindor left some (or even all) of his thoughts in there for ..... who? Nicholas Flamel, perhaps? All the Hogwarts headmasters? Someone who could pass the pensieve on to Dumbledore, anyway. Or......maybe Snape inadvertently left some of his thoughts in the pensieve, and Dumbledore and Harry happen upon them together.
Or, maybe its just the most obvious thing - they're looking at memories Harry can't quite remember from the night his parents were murdered.
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MickeyCee3948 - Mar 18, 2005 2:11 pm (#55 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Joanne R Reid "I don't think that Draco is the Half-Blood Prince. The evidence of the Black family tapestry is sufficient."
Joanne your well thought out post should provide sufficient evidence for all Draco as HBP believers.
Mikie
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Madame Librarian - Mar 18, 2005 3:45 pm (#56 of 1448)
This potions book is very intruiging to ponder. Here's a big "what if"--
We know that Snape has redeemed himself in DD's eyes because of something he did to prove he rejected the DE philosophy. Theories so far have suggested everything from attempting to stop Voldemort from attacking at Godric's Hollow to being an undecover agent for the Order from the get-go. Maybe it has something to do with that book.
For the sake of argument let's assume that the book was Tom's, and it was the source of some of the ancient potions he created. A potion to assure immortality, a potion to prevent death even during a lethal attack, something like that. The important thing is that the book was really, really crucial to Voldemort's continued existence and survival. He needed those special formulas.
Where did the book come from? Well, maybe it was Grindelwald that gave it to him. Maybe Tom stole it from the bookstore. Doesn't matter right now. But it would matter if someone stole that book from him. Did Snape do that? Was Snape the one who discovered Voldemort's secret potions and how they worked to "stopper death?" If I'm figuring the timeline correctly (see the Lex), he'd just been hired by DD as Potions Master, so he was primed to grasp the signifigance of the power of potions.
So, maybe he did cop that book. It's an ancient, ancient text, difficult for the modern Wizard to fully understand, but Snape is brilliant is this regard. He's the Order's best hope to decode the formulas in the book. He's been directed by DD to try to find the potion to undo all that Voldemort has done to himself--even the most recent potion with the "bone of my father..." recipe (GoF).
DD trusted Snape with this job because it was Snape who stole the book from Voldemort in the first place and brought it to the Order.
It would be very cool if that book somehow got discovered at Hogwarts when Harry takes advanced potions. Or maybe Hermione finds it.
Just a possible scenario to fill the bit of time on Friday afternoon before I have to start prepping dinner.
Ciao. Barb
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popkin - Mar 18, 2005 5:33 pm (#57 of 1448)
mother
Edited by Mar 18, 2005 4:33 pm
Since Lucius Malfoy probably has some "old school things" from Tom Riddle, perhaps the potions book has been handed down to Draco and it will be Draco's textbook sixth year.
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Stringer - Mar 18, 2005 6:20 pm (#58 of 1448)
I hope the ministry performs a long overdue raid on the Malfoy home, and finds the secret room under the drawing room. That would be a great place to find that book.
I wonder of the ministry will question Draco's mom. After all Kreacher told DD he went to Narcissa's house, and they got him lie to Harry about Sirius. Not that he needed much persuasion.
I can almost see a "Crouch" like turn around in the MOM. Instead of being completely in denial, they could be aggressively pursuing and leads on DE's and Voldie.
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Chemyst - Mar 18, 2005 7:26 pm (#59 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I was wondering why (in OotP) did JKR have Snape borrow Dumbledore's pensieve? Why didn't he have his own? - popkin
In the American editions, Pensieve is always capitalized as a proper noun, as if it were a specific item. And is usually paired with the article the, not a (although Tomoé found one exception.) The grammar seems to suggest that the Pensieve is rare, and perhaps even one-of-a-kind.
chocfrogger, I have been looking at HPANA's book cover, which they claim to be the largest available, and I still don't see any "Tom" written on it. What kind of enhancing did you do on your photo program?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 18, 2005 7:55 pm (#60 of 1448)
Madame Librarian, that is sheer brilliance. I really like your scenario, it would give Snape's character new dimensions. Your idea idea reminds me of the deciphering of the Rosetta Stone
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 18, 2005 10:27 pm (#61 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Mar 18, 2005 9:35 pm
I do not see "TOM" on the potions book either.
This is all I see with my naked eye on the cover of the potions book.
The Potions Book Cover
Advanced
-Potion-
Making--->some word "nitwit"?!
SIGNITURE!<----by
Libalius Borage
Do you all see the signiture!?
Its in plain sight bottom left of the "M" in "making"!
Also this is new to me but I just found this! there is a word to the lower right of the "G" in "making" it is very faint! I think it says NITWIT or something like one of the words DD said before. Please tell me you can see this so I dont think I am going insane looking at this picture!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Mar 18, 2005 10:45 pm (#62 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!" Interesting place for that to show up, if indeed it is that...
Edited for additional thought... wonder if is another foursome? And if so, which?
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Madam Pince - Mar 18, 2005 11:33 pm (#63 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
There is definitely some writing there to the left of the letter "M" in "Making." It looks to me like the word "history," which makes no sense and is completely boring, so I hope that's not correct. I can't see the writing near the letter "g." I don't see the word "Tom" anywhere either, nor the letters "--dor." Doesn't mean they're not there -- I have horrible eyesight.
Chemyst, thanks for the HPANA link, by the way! It's by far the clearest I've seen!
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Luanee - Mar 19, 2005 12:46 am (#64 of 1448)
Yes, I don't see any word near the letter 'G' too. As for the word near 'M', I can only make out that last letter is either a 'y' or 'g' as it ended with a big curve...
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popkin - Mar 19, 2005 1:51 am (#65 of 1448)
mother
I was wondering why (in OotP) did JKR have Snape borrow Dumbledore's pensieve? Why didn't he have his own? - popkin
In the American editions, Pensieve is always capitalized as a proper noun, as if it were a specific item. And is usually paired with the article the, not a (although Tomoé found one exception.) The grammar seems to suggest that the Pensieve is rare, and perhaps even one-of-a-kind. Chemyst - Mar 18, 2005 6:26 pm (#59 of 64)
I'm not sure I go along with that logic, since all the spells, and many of the magical creatures are also always capitalized. But, even if there is only one Pensieve, the question of "Why?" remains. Is it just to establish that no one but Dumbledore and his trusted allies are able to extract their thoughts and examine them so thoroughly? Why make it necessisary for Snape to borrow it? Was it to show how deeply Dumbledore trusts Snape - he lends his precious magical things to him as he would to a very dear friend?
I just thought it was odd that JKR had Snape borrowing Dumbledore's Pensieve. It's like the put-outer which Moody borrows - what is it about these particular items that she is trying to establish? Perhaps she just wanted to reuse the items, but did not want there to be too many of them lying around for all the characters to have access to.
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karlii - Mar 19, 2005 3:50 am (#66 of 1448)
I have been staring at that book cover (potions) for quite a while, and I can't see anything you all are seeing.
I can see an 'A' up on the white part, followed by something that is obscured. I can't see anything by the M or the G, but I do see a squiggle down to the left of the M.
This reminds me of a picture that was posted YEARS ago on afg-s (newsnet). It was of this guy's (vince's) garden in England. You were supposed to be able to see gnomes in it. It was a hot topic for months. People could see all sort of things. I, myself, could see dozens of gnomes, and they pretty much looked like JKR describes them. My friends, however, couldn't see all the ones I saw, and I couldn't see everything THEY saw. Was it all our imagination? Partly. But it could also have to do with perspective, ability, talent and skill.
It is likely the same with this picture of the cover. We will all glean things from it, but each of us comes at it from unique perspectives. I think it might be a good idea to compile all the things that are seen. Compile them, sort them, catagorize them. Who sees Tom? Who sees Dor? Who sees nitwit, who sees history, etc. Is there a pattern? Do groups of people see the diverse things?
Very interesting.
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mike miller - Mar 19, 2005 5:40 am (#67 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
There is definately something written parallel to the spine of the book. I'm guessing more of a phrase or comment than a signature since it seems to run the height of the book. It begins at the bottom, below the author's name and continues all the way up to the white "sticker". What appears to be the second or third word begins with a very "loopy" letter, like a captial "D" followed closely (but not immediately) by a letter that drops below the line of the writing like a "g" or a "y". Isn't DD's writing described as "loopy"?
A question for anyone who knows something about archaic forms of writting; were there other letters that drop "below the line" like our modern "g" or "y" in earlier writting forms? I seem to recall both "f" and "s" having a much longer sweeping form in the past.
Here's another interesting observation, the lines on the pages seem to run vertically as opposed to horizontally (see the pages sticking out of the bottom of the cover). This is more like some form of ledger paper or accounting format. I'm not sure what, if anything, that means.
I have been think about the possible importance of the book depending upon it's owner. I have not been able to put togther a complete list of my thoughts as yet, but wanted to share the basic train of thought to see if I can stimulate others. Here's a list of who I think the book might have belonged to: Tom Riddle/Voldemort, Severus Snape, either James or Lily, Dumbledore, the HBP, Godric Gryffindor, the new DADA Professor or a character yet to be identified. The role this book could change dramatically depending on which of these individuals had owned the book. I'll keep thinking on this and may post something later once I've identified a key reason for the book to have been owned by each character.
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Daisy Pennifold - Mar 19, 2005 6:17 am (#68 of 1448)
Does "Libatius Borage" remind anyone else of "Lucrezia Borgia"? That's the first thing that came to mind when I read the author's name. I don't know if that means anything, or was deliberate. I'm just curious.
By the way, if a person is writing their name on a book that they own, why would they write it from bottom to top, through the author and title? That seems really odd to me. If you're going to write your name on a cover, you would write it in a corner or something.
It looks to me as if the writing had bled through from something that was written on top of it. Or (most likely, I think, but no one hit me or anything) just random pen swirlies of some N.E.W.T. level Hogwarts student bored out of his or her mind in class.
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chocfrogger1 - Mar 19, 2005 7:22 am (#69 of 1448)
I have been looking at HPANA's book cover, which they claim to be the largest available, and I still don't see any "Tom" written on it. What kind of enhancing did you do on your photo program?
Chemyst, I just zoomed in on the photo, specifically the upper right corner of the potions book, and the name Tom appears quite clearly, as a handwritten name written possibly in pencil, as it is thicker than if written in ink. I recognized it quickly, as it is also Mr. CF1's first name, and similar to how he signs it. I only saw it when I knew exactly where to look, in the left side of the light shaded torn-away cover. Hope this helps!!
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Madame Librarian - Mar 19, 2005 7:56 am (#70 of 1448)
(Thanks, Nathan, for liking my Snape steals the book theory.)
OK, I've been zooming in all over the place. Here's what I see:
1-On the white patch in the upper right corner, I see an "A"...a space...what could be a "b"...what could be a "u." DD's first name perhaps--Albus?
2-Just under the lower left corner of same patch, I see a scribble that could be an infinity sign--an "8" laying on its side. Infinity--endless?--immortality???!
3-Random squiggles along the left edge of the cover. Only one is possibly a letter..."O." Would not be able to testify in court on that however.
4-At the bottom edge of the book the sheets poking out of the book do appear to have vertical rules, not horzontal.
5-Pure guess here, but some of those sheets of paper may be loose because they are not bound into the book. In other words, they are notes taken from another source and stuffed in this book.
6-The table on which the book is set, is old and scratched up. A student's desk, maybe?
So my only tenuous conclusion is that the book at one time was in Albus Dumbledore's possession. Even that is about 70% guess.
Thanks, Chemyst, for providing the link to the large pic.
Ciao. Barb
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Dumbledore - Mar 19, 2005 8:56 am (#71 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
A thank you from me too, Chemyst. The link is excellent, I can definitely make out a lot more.
I can definitely see the "A" in the upper right corner of the label, followed by another word, but the two phrases don't seem to be connected.
I can also make out what looks like the word "history" printed at about 7:00 from the M.
There's a lot of other scribbles but nothing that I can make out. And I agree with you Barb and Mike, that the pages seem to be going vertically and that there looks like extra pages have been thrown in. Just my two knuts to see if we can pile any of this stuff together.
-Lauren
Edit: We can definitely see what looks like to be page numbers on the top right corners of some of the pages also. Does that mean anything?? Did really old books have page numbers??
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MoaningMyrtle101 - Mar 19, 2005 9:22 am (#72 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 19, 2005 8:22 am
I've been looking and looking, but even I can't be 70% sure of anything... It's just too small. You must have REALLY good eyesight, because I can't even be certain about that possible "Albus" signature. And the vertical ruled paper looks as though someone folded some sheets of horizontal-ruled paper in half and stuffed it into the book. Maybe all of the pages aren't that way; just the ones that are sticking out the most.
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GryffEndora - Mar 19, 2005 10:44 am (#73 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Here are my 2 knuts on the Potions book.
The A on the White label thingy seems to be in quotation marks "A" maybe a nickname.
As for the writing that is parallel to the spine, and part of which is located down left from the M in Making, I agree with whoever said it looks like something that bled through from a parchment that was on top of the book. In fact, when I looked at it following it up to the mark that I believe Madame Librarian said looks like Infinity symbol I see a name in very large cursive writing: Bellatrix. The loopy D thing by the M in Making looks to me now like the top portion of a very large Cursive B and the Infinity symbol actually looks like an X with the many loops between making up a very large Bellatrix. Perhaps this was her book, perhaps it belonged to someone who fancied her? Didn't Snape hang around with the Lestrange's in school? In fact all of these sightings could be like the names in JKR's trophy room indicating many different owners or borrowers of the same library or text book. I still can't see the Tom or the DOR but I'm looking. This is fun!
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 19, 2005 12:38 pm (#74 of 1448)
Hi,
Like everyone else, I've been trying to find these words and signatures on the cover of the UK-Adult cover. So, a big thank you to you , Chemyst, for this HPANA cover.
To everyone still looking at the old cover, give it up. The resolution is too low and several things we thought were there aren't in the higher resolution version.
1. I had found shadowy lettering in the torn area at the top of the page that looked like DOR. In the HPANA version, I can not find these images. I'll try enhancing and stuff later.
2. However, I did find the printed letters A L in the upper right corner of the torn area. Just to the right of these letters is a faded A.
3. I also see faded letters near the upper left corner of the torn area. They are written at a slight diagonal from lower-left to upper-right. I think the first letter is an A. The second letter is an L. The third letter is harder to discern, but is of the D / P / B family. I'm taking a wild stab at the name Albus, but I'm probably completely wrong.
5. There is something in the extreme upper right corner. Although it could be T O M, I couldn't swear to it.
6. There is a series of imprints, that I can not make out clearly at this time. They are in the area just to the left of the folded back piece of leather cover. The lettering travels down and to the right, somewhat paralleling the edge of the leather.
7. There is a smudge in the exposed area at the upper right corner of the book. Could it be lettering?
8. The letters that I had discerned in the earlier cover, just above the CED of ADVANCED are no longer there.
9. There is a curious X, perhaps written in ink, just below the torn area at the top of the book.
10. There are some odd marks along the exposed binding below the tear and to the left of the scroll work.
11. There is definitely some writing near the binding, just above and to the left of Libatius Borage. It could be the H, followed by a few letters and then an elaborate swirl. If so, H could be a first initial and the rest the last name. Equally, it could be the word History.
12. There is also something that could be very small writing in ink below the scroll work that is below Borage's name and to its left. It's between the scroll work and the binding. Then again, it could be just a contiuation of the basic pattern of the book's cover.
13. I can't find anything on the exposed portions of the pages that would distinguish this book. It does have red vertical stripes almost like a ledger. There are page numbers at the upper right of a few of the pages, the number 4, for instance.
14. I can't find any distinguishing marks on the table.
Finally, the torn area at the top of the book has lots of stuff that's half-hidden. It merits serious study.
Thanks,
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GryffEndora - Mar 19, 2005 2:17 pm (#75 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Joanne R. Reid - 2. However, I did find the printed letters A L in the upper right corner of the torn area. Just to the right of these letters is a faded A.
Your absolutely right Joanne, I don't know how I saw "A" but the HPANA version clearly shows A L. I even tried applying a few different stylized filters over the image and every time the A L was clear as day.
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septentrion - Mar 19, 2005 2:48 pm (#76 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I can't see those AL which you're speaking of. Yet I can see clearly the wrinting at the edge of the binding. What you call a curious X could be a 4 if you look at it sideways.The same with the kind of B under the "m" of making : it could be a 3.And just under the "p" of potions, it could be a 2. Could those numbers have a meaning ? That is, if they're numbers.
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Ydnam96 - Mar 19, 2005 3:18 pm (#77 of 1448)
wow, you all have great eyes. I can only see the "A" and then what looks like an "L" to me on the right side of the white label area on the top. Then just to the lower left of the "M" in Making I can see some loopy writing which first I thought was a 6, then it sorta looked like the "R" when JK signs her name.
That's ALL I see, well I can tell that the book is rather old and appears to have some extra pages shoved in it towards the front of the book (It looks like folded parchment.)
Does anyone have a zoomed in view of it they can post?
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Ponine - Mar 19, 2005 3:37 pm (#78 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
It won't show!! the hpana link does not work anymore, and boy do i feel left out...
Edited: Ginerva - no, I did just try again, - twice - and nothing quite frustrating...
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 19, 2005 3:50 pm (#79 of 1448)
Ponine - Try again. I just downloaded it okay.
I still don't see the Tom, but do you think that the word by Making could be Draco? It kinda looks like Draco to me. Or maybe Dragon?
I don't know. The first letter looks more like a D to me than an H.
Thanks for the HPANA link. I was feeling a little left out, too! Ginny
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Delightful Task! - Mar 20, 2005 7:03 am (#80 of 1448)
Well, the only thing I clearly see is A L... Who could that be though? Lupin's first name is Remus, Alice wasn't called Longbottom when she was at Hogwarts... (The book definitely seems to be a school textbook)
We're left with Algie Longbottom but is he really a Longbottom? I also found Lynch Aidan in the Lexicon... Lestrange and Lovegood begin with an L... and Avery with an A... Any other idea?
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Madam Pince - Mar 20, 2005 9:12 am (#81 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I see the "AL" on the white label now. No idea what it could be.
Good catch about the lined paper coming out of the bottom of the book being vertical lines, Mike! I don't usually think of potions that way, but it sure looks like accountant-type paper! I do see a couple of horizontal lines on the edges of the pages coming out of the side of the book, too. Just a few, though, and they're at the top. It's not like the paper is completely lined horizontally as well as vertically or anything. Accounting paper does have a few horizontal lines, too, so that is certainly looking like a possibility.
Another thing that occurred to me -- the picture is so good, I almost wonder if it is a photograph? What if they just photographed some random, cool-looking old book, which just happened to be an accounting journal or something, and then computer-enhanced the photograph to put the title "Advanced Potion Making by Libatius Borage" on it? The desktop underneath the book almost looks like a photograph, too.
Nah....that would ruin all our fun theories!
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MoonRider - Mar 20, 2005 12:39 pm (#82 of 1448)
Madam Pince: "I almost wonder if it is a photograph?"
Would that, then, be considered an "illustration"? Aren't all the covers done by illustration artists?
Also, Madam Pince, I think someone already mentioned that the AL could be part of "Albus".
I don't see those lines, but I had this thought.....
What if the text inside the Potions book is written in another language------using, even, a different alphabet, Asian, Uighur, Arabic-----hence, the vertical lines?
I think the book is resting on a crate.
I'm afraid the HPANA site "ruined", so-to-speak, the picture of the cover (Potions book)------it seems more clear, actually-----but, then, whatever they did to make it more clear, took away some lighter, or faded, colors, or whatever. I didn't see "Tom" on the picture on the HPANA site, either. When I saw "Tom", I had just opened it in my "Windows Picture and Fax Viewer".
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 20, 2005 12:42 pm (#83 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Madam Pince, I was about to make a similar comment, but was afraid of being stoned! The Bloomsbury site states that "The cover design for the adult edition is from a photograph by Michael Wildsmith." So, it is a photograph. What is not clear is how the photograph was manipulated. My guess is that you are right, and an old book was used and the title was superimposed on the front. This doesn't mean that other things, like letters ,couldn't have also been added, but I doubt it. I'd love to be wrong, and I hate to be a spoilsport!
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Madam Pince - Mar 20, 2005 1:48 pm (#84 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Stones? There are stones??? ***Looking wildly around, Madam Pince ducks***
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 20, 2005 6:45 pm (#85 of 1448)
I can not see the A.L. Is it in black writing?What I see slightly upper left of Libatius Borage is a faded black cursive handwriting that looks like Lily to me.Can anyone else see this?
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Madame Librarian - Mar 20, 2005 6:55 pm (#86 of 1448)
MoonRider, when you scroll down to the lower right corner of the book, you see the lower right edge of the surface it's setting on. It definitely looks to me to be a table top corner (or desk). There seems to be a void underneath it--i.e., the space underneath the table--and going off the pic on the bottom right is what I take to be a table leg. I agree the surface itself could be that of a crate, but with these features I really think it's a table.
Darn, the crate would have been a cool thing. It could have been a storage crate hidden in all kinds of places--Malfoy's floor, the attic at 12 GP, even Pet's squeaky stair.
Ciao. Barb
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 20, 2005 7:02 pm (#87 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Madame Pomfrey, If you look at the top right corner of the white label on the book's cover, you can clearly see the letters A L. Look at the HPANA site to see a blown-up image.
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Amilia Smith - Mar 20, 2005 7:08 pm (#88 of 1448)
Thank you, Accio HBP. I had been looking in the ripped right hand corner of the book, not the label, and had no luck. :-) Now that I know where to look, I can see the AL too!!!
Mills.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 20, 2005 7:39 pm (#89 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Here's a wild guess. The letters that we can see on the white label are part of the name Minerva McGonagall. If you look at where they are positioned on the label, it fits pretty well with the number of letters in her name.
Also, it could offer other important clues. Could Harry be leaving Privet Drive early so that McGonagall can keep her promise to help him become an Auror by giving him Potion lessons? And if it's her old textbook, could it be proof that McGonagall is single?
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 20, 2005 9:14 pm (#90 of 1448)
Thanks Accio.I can see it now.Can anyone else see the writing just to the upper left of Libatius?It is a word clearly ending in a Y.Possibly Kitty or Lily its hard to tell. I Am Used Vlad I like the idea of it being McGonagall's book.Her name does end in "all" perhaps we are just not seeing all the letters. I take that back.It may not be a Y at all.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 20, 2005 9:25 pm (#91 of 1448)
If the name on the white label was McGonagall, why is the "A" uppercase? Also, for some reason I think Minerva McGonagall, even as a young student, would not have let her book gotten in to such dreadful condition.
Ciao. Barb
Edit--I still can't see any names formed by the scribbles to the left of the name Libatius. I just see...well, curvy scribbles, maybe one of them an "o" that sort of spirals around instead of being a closed circle. Arrrhhhgggh! This is so frustrating!
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 20, 2005 10:02 pm (#92 of 1448)
Barb,Look right above the white"water mark".If that helps.
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Eloise Black - Mar 21, 2005 1:58 am (#93 of 1448)
Hi All,
If you look at the book with the left edge as the bottom margin, there appears to be a sentence written. I cannot work out what it says as I do not have a program that can enlarge the image or turn the image around. If anybody has a program that allows manipulation of images, you could perhaps try and workout what the sentence tells us.
My other thought was that the various signatures on the front cover of the book where the names of the Heads of Houses. "AL" could be Albus Dumbledoore, and "Nit" could be Flitwick.
Eloise
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Rhiannon - Mar 21, 2005 2:56 am (#94 of 1448)
Hi everyone,
This is my first ever post on here, so I'm a bit nervous not knowing how it works and everything, but there are a few things I'd like to say:
Firstly, I'm wondering if the 'Half Blood Prince' is someone we haven't met before. Think about it... 'Philosopher's Stone', 'Chamber of Secrets', 'Prisoner of Azkaban', 'Goblet of Fire', and 'Order of the Pheonix'. These objects, people and places, we had never come across before, until that book. Just a thought.
Secondly, the book covers for the Half Blood Prince. I've been examining the old potions book on one of the covers, and the things I can see are; an 'A' and an 'L' (possibly a '4' though?) in the right hand corner of what looks like a white label. Also a big '4' between the top line of the title and the top of the book. It is slightly at an angle and looks like ink maybe? I can't see a 'Tom' though, but that would be cool. It is odd how we seem to see different things isn't it?
On amazon.com I typed in Half Blood Prince, and it came up with another book cover too. This one had Dumbledore and Harry (with his wand) looking over something made of stone, which I think must be the pensive. I'm not sure if I've spelled that right though. I wonder what that means? Surely that the pensive is used again, and hopefully it is quite important. This would be a good way to show Harry history wouldn't it?
Last of all I think someone said that the description of a man who was like a lion on JK's website could perhaps be Godric Gryffindor. I like this idea. Or possibly, maybe the new Defence against the Dark Arts teacher? But Godric's dead isn't he? Or maybe they saw him in the pensive?
Please forgive me if these things have been suggested before, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Rhiannon
Oh dear that was really long wasn't it! Hope you got what I meant!
Edited: I really like the idea that the potions book was Minerva's old textbook and she coached Harry to become an Auror. But would that be a pleasant reason? Possibly I suppose, if he really wants that good grade. (which he does).
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septentrion - Mar 21, 2005 3:29 am (#95 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
How weird ! I watch the same picture from HPANA at home and at work and I don't see the same things. The "AL" on the white label are invisible at home but very clear at work. My screen is brighter at work, that may be the reason.
Welcome Rhiannon, and don't be afraid to post your ideas. BTW if you want to know if a subject has already been discussed, try the search function in the tool bar at the top of the main page and at the top of each thread.
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Chemyst - Mar 21, 2005 6:07 am (#96 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
On the UK adult cover:
– One thing that bugs me a little is how the gold leaf lettering of the title, author, and decorative filigree doesn't show wear marks compatible with the most heavily worn places in the leather. I suppose one could excuse it as magical long-lasting ink, but really... It does not look natural to have such fine typography on such a battered book.
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Molly Fox - Mar 21, 2005 9:07 am (#97 of 1448)
You all are great! I've been reading this forum for the last year. I wish my first post were going to be something more outstanding and earth shattering but...
I've been looking at the Potions book cover too, and those pages that are vertical, I think they are note cards stuck in the book. They are too white to be part of the book that has become unbound. If they were part of the book they would be more yellowed around the edges.
I think someone has been working with that book recently, and those note cards are notes and recipes recently added or re-worked by whom ever is currently using the book.
that's all....
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popkin - Mar 21, 2005 10:03 am (#98 of 1448)
mother
Chemyst - Mar 21, 2005 5:07 am (#96 of 97) On the UK adult cover: – One thing that bugs me a little is how the gold leaf lettering of the title, author, and decorative filigree doesn't show wear marks compatible with the most heavily worn places in the leather. I suppose one could excuse it as magical long-lasting ink, but really... It does not look natural to have such fine typography on such a battered book.
That bothered me, too. Since the entire outer layer of the book is worn away, the title should have gone with it. I chalked it up to a Permanent Sticking Charm or something like it.
Above the filigree above the NCE in "advanced", I see a stylized drawing which could be a bearded monster with three eyes (or one big eye like a cyclops), perhaps. It isn't very clear, and I don't know how to enhance the drawing.
I think the book is intended to be turned sideways when opened, and the ledger lines would run horizontally.
I liked Madame Librarian's idea that the book is sitting on top of a trap door (like in Lucius Malfoy's home), and not on a desk as I first supposed. The face of the wood looks more like a floor, but it is too large to be a loose floorboard. The way it is finished underneath made me think of a desk, because the corners are rounded. Rounded corners would not make a good seal on a trap door, though. Now, I just don't know what it is.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 21, 2005 11:08 am (#99 of 1448)
The desk on which the book sits is not unlike an old English school desk. I had a similiar desk in my high school and anyone who has ever seen pictures of The Harrow School For Boys would probably have seen a very similiar desk, inscribed with names of past pupils (Byron, Churchill, etc.) I think it's just a desk, after all Hogwarts is a pretty old school, isn't it?
Aurora xx
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Hollywand - Mar 21, 2005 11:36 am (#100 of 1448)
Gryffindor
And Rowling does mention that she loved to carve into her desk in school. To the left of the book, I see a snake, an egg and an eye at the top, if you look carefully at the eye, the shape of a dragon emerges very much like the dragon on Jo's site. Can't wait....
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Thanks for post #42 Moonrider, I was thinking that there must be some clue lurking in plain sight on the Bloomsbury cover of HBP (the one with the potions book). After I saw your post, I put the image into one of my photo programs, and you can definitely see a handwritten word, Tom, in the upper right corner, where the thick cover has peeled away.
This leads us to the idea that this is LV's book, and that he likely is not the original owner, as a new owner would put their name on the fresh inside of a book. I think it was already beat up by the time LV got it. That leads us to the question of who was the original owner, and what kind of notes are now scribbled in those margins?! And where has this book been up to this point? And can it even be opened safely? (remember what happened when Ginny opened his diary).
It seems like a great weapon for the Order if they have the recipe book for all LV's protective/life preserving spells.
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Catherine - Mar 18, 2005 10:47 am (#52 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
They can't promise a copy to those who just reserved one. Has anyone else had a call similar to this? --Denise
I haven't heard of such a phone call, but my brother "reserved" a copy of OoP from a Books A Million but had to go out of town and couldn't pick his book up until late Saturday. They had sold his copy, and had no copies left.
He was most irate. Perhaps they are anticipating such problems again, and are trying to fend off problems?
Also, there have been weird emails about HBP in the past, most of which were glitches or wrong, so maybe Books A Million got one of those weirdo emails and went into panic mode themselves.
Back to the regularly scheduled program....
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MoonRider - Mar 18, 2005 12:27 pm (#53 of 1448)
chocfrogger1: You're quite welcome!
"That leads us to the question of who was the original owner, and what kind of notes are now scribbled in those margins?!"
How about Grindelwald? (The Dark Wizard that DD defeated in 1945) Remember DD, I think it was, telling Harry that LV went all over the place learning the Dark Arts? Maybe----as I think someone else has suggested-----LV learned some stuff from Grindelwald! If DD can still be living, so can he (Grindelwald)!
"It seems like a great weapon for the Order if they have the recipe book for all LV's protective/life preserving spells."
YEAH-----I like that idea!
Good job!!
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popkin - Mar 18, 2005 1:15 pm (#54 of 1448)
mother
Going back many, many posts to the pensieve discussion, I was wondering why (in OotP) did JKR have Snape borrow Dumbledore's pensieve? Why didn't he have his own? It could just be that pensieves are rare magical items, or it could be that she wanted to establish that a wizard could put his own thoughts into someone else's pensieve.
What if Dumbledore uses Godric Gryffindor's old pensieve, and Gryffindor left some (or even all) of his thoughts in there for ..... who? Nicholas Flamel, perhaps? All the Hogwarts headmasters? Someone who could pass the pensieve on to Dumbledore, anyway. Or......maybe Snape inadvertently left some of his thoughts in the pensieve, and Dumbledore and Harry happen upon them together.
Or, maybe its just the most obvious thing - they're looking at memories Harry can't quite remember from the night his parents were murdered.
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MickeyCee3948 - Mar 18, 2005 2:11 pm (#55 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Joanne R Reid "I don't think that Draco is the Half-Blood Prince. The evidence of the Black family tapestry is sufficient."
Joanne your well thought out post should provide sufficient evidence for all Draco as HBP believers.
Mikie
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Madame Librarian - Mar 18, 2005 3:45 pm (#56 of 1448)
This potions book is very intruiging to ponder. Here's a big "what if"--
We know that Snape has redeemed himself in DD's eyes because of something he did to prove he rejected the DE philosophy. Theories so far have suggested everything from attempting to stop Voldemort from attacking at Godric's Hollow to being an undecover agent for the Order from the get-go. Maybe it has something to do with that book.
For the sake of argument let's assume that the book was Tom's, and it was the source of some of the ancient potions he created. A potion to assure immortality, a potion to prevent death even during a lethal attack, something like that. The important thing is that the book was really, really crucial to Voldemort's continued existence and survival. He needed those special formulas.
Where did the book come from? Well, maybe it was Grindelwald that gave it to him. Maybe Tom stole it from the bookstore. Doesn't matter right now. But it would matter if someone stole that book from him. Did Snape do that? Was Snape the one who discovered Voldemort's secret potions and how they worked to "stopper death?" If I'm figuring the timeline correctly (see the Lex), he'd just been hired by DD as Potions Master, so he was primed to grasp the signifigance of the power of potions.
So, maybe he did cop that book. It's an ancient, ancient text, difficult for the modern Wizard to fully understand, but Snape is brilliant is this regard. He's the Order's best hope to decode the formulas in the book. He's been directed by DD to try to find the potion to undo all that Voldemort has done to himself--even the most recent potion with the "bone of my father..." recipe (GoF).
DD trusted Snape with this job because it was Snape who stole the book from Voldemort in the first place and brought it to the Order.
It would be very cool if that book somehow got discovered at Hogwarts when Harry takes advanced potions. Or maybe Hermione finds it.
Just a possible scenario to fill the bit of time on Friday afternoon before I have to start prepping dinner.
Ciao. Barb
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popkin - Mar 18, 2005 5:33 pm (#57 of 1448)
mother
Edited by Mar 18, 2005 4:33 pm
Since Lucius Malfoy probably has some "old school things" from Tom Riddle, perhaps the potions book has been handed down to Draco and it will be Draco's textbook sixth year.
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Stringer - Mar 18, 2005 6:20 pm (#58 of 1448)
I hope the ministry performs a long overdue raid on the Malfoy home, and finds the secret room under the drawing room. That would be a great place to find that book.
I wonder of the ministry will question Draco's mom. After all Kreacher told DD he went to Narcissa's house, and they got him lie to Harry about Sirius. Not that he needed much persuasion.
I can almost see a "Crouch" like turn around in the MOM. Instead of being completely in denial, they could be aggressively pursuing and leads on DE's and Voldie.
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Chemyst - Mar 18, 2005 7:26 pm (#59 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I was wondering why (in OotP) did JKR have Snape borrow Dumbledore's pensieve? Why didn't he have his own? - popkin
In the American editions, Pensieve is always capitalized as a proper noun, as if it were a specific item. And is usually paired with the article the, not a (although Tomoé found one exception.) The grammar seems to suggest that the Pensieve is rare, and perhaps even one-of-a-kind.
chocfrogger, I have been looking at HPANA's book cover, which they claim to be the largest available, and I still don't see any "Tom" written on it. What kind of enhancing did you do on your photo program?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 18, 2005 7:55 pm (#60 of 1448)
Madame Librarian, that is sheer brilliance. I really like your scenario, it would give Snape's character new dimensions. Your idea idea reminds me of the deciphering of the Rosetta Stone
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 18, 2005 10:27 pm (#61 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Mar 18, 2005 9:35 pm
I do not see "TOM" on the potions book either.
This is all I see with my naked eye on the cover of the potions book.
The Potions Book Cover
Advanced
-Potion-
Making--->some word "nitwit"?!
SIGNITURE!<----by
Libalius Borage
Do you all see the signiture!?
Its in plain sight bottom left of the "M" in "making"!
Also this is new to me but I just found this! there is a word to the lower right of the "G" in "making" it is very faint! I think it says NITWIT or something like one of the words DD said before. Please tell me you can see this so I dont think I am going insane looking at this picture!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Mar 18, 2005 10:45 pm (#62 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
"Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!" Interesting place for that to show up, if indeed it is that...
Edited for additional thought... wonder if is another foursome? And if so, which?
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Madam Pince - Mar 18, 2005 11:33 pm (#63 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
There is definitely some writing there to the left of the letter "M" in "Making." It looks to me like the word "history," which makes no sense and is completely boring, so I hope that's not correct. I can't see the writing near the letter "g." I don't see the word "Tom" anywhere either, nor the letters "--dor." Doesn't mean they're not there -- I have horrible eyesight.
Chemyst, thanks for the HPANA link, by the way! It's by far the clearest I've seen!
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Luanee - Mar 19, 2005 12:46 am (#64 of 1448)
Yes, I don't see any word near the letter 'G' too. As for the word near 'M', I can only make out that last letter is either a 'y' or 'g' as it ended with a big curve...
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popkin - Mar 19, 2005 1:51 am (#65 of 1448)
mother
I was wondering why (in OotP) did JKR have Snape borrow Dumbledore's pensieve? Why didn't he have his own? - popkin
In the American editions, Pensieve is always capitalized as a proper noun, as if it were a specific item. And is usually paired with the article the, not a (although Tomoé found one exception.) The grammar seems to suggest that the Pensieve is rare, and perhaps even one-of-a-kind. Chemyst - Mar 18, 2005 6:26 pm (#59 of 64)
I'm not sure I go along with that logic, since all the spells, and many of the magical creatures are also always capitalized. But, even if there is only one Pensieve, the question of "Why?" remains. Is it just to establish that no one but Dumbledore and his trusted allies are able to extract their thoughts and examine them so thoroughly? Why make it necessisary for Snape to borrow it? Was it to show how deeply Dumbledore trusts Snape - he lends his precious magical things to him as he would to a very dear friend?
I just thought it was odd that JKR had Snape borrowing Dumbledore's Pensieve. It's like the put-outer which Moody borrows - what is it about these particular items that she is trying to establish? Perhaps she just wanted to reuse the items, but did not want there to be too many of them lying around for all the characters to have access to.
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karlii - Mar 19, 2005 3:50 am (#66 of 1448)
I have been staring at that book cover (potions) for quite a while, and I can't see anything you all are seeing.
I can see an 'A' up on the white part, followed by something that is obscured. I can't see anything by the M or the G, but I do see a squiggle down to the left of the M.
This reminds me of a picture that was posted YEARS ago on afg-s (newsnet). It was of this guy's (vince's) garden in England. You were supposed to be able to see gnomes in it. It was a hot topic for months. People could see all sort of things. I, myself, could see dozens of gnomes, and they pretty much looked like JKR describes them. My friends, however, couldn't see all the ones I saw, and I couldn't see everything THEY saw. Was it all our imagination? Partly. But it could also have to do with perspective, ability, talent and skill.
It is likely the same with this picture of the cover. We will all glean things from it, but each of us comes at it from unique perspectives. I think it might be a good idea to compile all the things that are seen. Compile them, sort them, catagorize them. Who sees Tom? Who sees Dor? Who sees nitwit, who sees history, etc. Is there a pattern? Do groups of people see the diverse things?
Very interesting.
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mike miller - Mar 19, 2005 5:40 am (#67 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
There is definately something written parallel to the spine of the book. I'm guessing more of a phrase or comment than a signature since it seems to run the height of the book. It begins at the bottom, below the author's name and continues all the way up to the white "sticker". What appears to be the second or third word begins with a very "loopy" letter, like a captial "D" followed closely (but not immediately) by a letter that drops below the line of the writing like a "g" or a "y". Isn't DD's writing described as "loopy"?
A question for anyone who knows something about archaic forms of writting; were there other letters that drop "below the line" like our modern "g" or "y" in earlier writting forms? I seem to recall both "f" and "s" having a much longer sweeping form in the past.
Here's another interesting observation, the lines on the pages seem to run vertically as opposed to horizontally (see the pages sticking out of the bottom of the cover). This is more like some form of ledger paper or accounting format. I'm not sure what, if anything, that means.
I have been think about the possible importance of the book depending upon it's owner. I have not been able to put togther a complete list of my thoughts as yet, but wanted to share the basic train of thought to see if I can stimulate others. Here's a list of who I think the book might have belonged to: Tom Riddle/Voldemort, Severus Snape, either James or Lily, Dumbledore, the HBP, Godric Gryffindor, the new DADA Professor or a character yet to be identified. The role this book could change dramatically depending on which of these individuals had owned the book. I'll keep thinking on this and may post something later once I've identified a key reason for the book to have been owned by each character.
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Daisy Pennifold - Mar 19, 2005 6:17 am (#68 of 1448)
Does "Libatius Borage" remind anyone else of "Lucrezia Borgia"? That's the first thing that came to mind when I read the author's name. I don't know if that means anything, or was deliberate. I'm just curious.
By the way, if a person is writing their name on a book that they own, why would they write it from bottom to top, through the author and title? That seems really odd to me. If you're going to write your name on a cover, you would write it in a corner or something.
It looks to me as if the writing had bled through from something that was written on top of it. Or (most likely, I think, but no one hit me or anything) just random pen swirlies of some N.E.W.T. level Hogwarts student bored out of his or her mind in class.
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chocfrogger1 - Mar 19, 2005 7:22 am (#69 of 1448)
I have been looking at HPANA's book cover, which they claim to be the largest available, and I still don't see any "Tom" written on it. What kind of enhancing did you do on your photo program?
Chemyst, I just zoomed in on the photo, specifically the upper right corner of the potions book, and the name Tom appears quite clearly, as a handwritten name written possibly in pencil, as it is thicker than if written in ink. I recognized it quickly, as it is also Mr. CF1's first name, and similar to how he signs it. I only saw it when I knew exactly where to look, in the left side of the light shaded torn-away cover. Hope this helps!!
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Madame Librarian - Mar 19, 2005 7:56 am (#70 of 1448)
(Thanks, Nathan, for liking my Snape steals the book theory.)
OK, I've been zooming in all over the place. Here's what I see:
1-On the white patch in the upper right corner, I see an "A"...a space...what could be a "b"...what could be a "u." DD's first name perhaps--Albus?
2-Just under the lower left corner of same patch, I see a scribble that could be an infinity sign--an "8" laying on its side. Infinity--endless?--immortality???!
3-Random squiggles along the left edge of the cover. Only one is possibly a letter..."O." Would not be able to testify in court on that however.
4-At the bottom edge of the book the sheets poking out of the book do appear to have vertical rules, not horzontal.
5-Pure guess here, but some of those sheets of paper may be loose because they are not bound into the book. In other words, they are notes taken from another source and stuffed in this book.
6-The table on which the book is set, is old and scratched up. A student's desk, maybe?
So my only tenuous conclusion is that the book at one time was in Albus Dumbledore's possession. Even that is about 70% guess.
Thanks, Chemyst, for providing the link to the large pic.
Ciao. Barb
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Dumbledore - Mar 19, 2005 8:56 am (#71 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
A thank you from me too, Chemyst. The link is excellent, I can definitely make out a lot more.
I can definitely see the "A" in the upper right corner of the label, followed by another word, but the two phrases don't seem to be connected.
I can also make out what looks like the word "history" printed at about 7:00 from the M.
There's a lot of other scribbles but nothing that I can make out. And I agree with you Barb and Mike, that the pages seem to be going vertically and that there looks like extra pages have been thrown in. Just my two knuts to see if we can pile any of this stuff together.
-Lauren
Edit: We can definitely see what looks like to be page numbers on the top right corners of some of the pages also. Does that mean anything?? Did really old books have page numbers??
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MoaningMyrtle101 - Mar 19, 2005 9:22 am (#72 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 19, 2005 8:22 am
I've been looking and looking, but even I can't be 70% sure of anything... It's just too small. You must have REALLY good eyesight, because I can't even be certain about that possible "Albus" signature. And the vertical ruled paper looks as though someone folded some sheets of horizontal-ruled paper in half and stuffed it into the book. Maybe all of the pages aren't that way; just the ones that are sticking out the most.
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GryffEndora - Mar 19, 2005 10:44 am (#73 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Here are my 2 knuts on the Potions book.
The A on the White label thingy seems to be in quotation marks "A" maybe a nickname.
As for the writing that is parallel to the spine, and part of which is located down left from the M in Making, I agree with whoever said it looks like something that bled through from a parchment that was on top of the book. In fact, when I looked at it following it up to the mark that I believe Madame Librarian said looks like Infinity symbol I see a name in very large cursive writing: Bellatrix. The loopy D thing by the M in Making looks to me now like the top portion of a very large Cursive B and the Infinity symbol actually looks like an X with the many loops between making up a very large Bellatrix. Perhaps this was her book, perhaps it belonged to someone who fancied her? Didn't Snape hang around with the Lestrange's in school? In fact all of these sightings could be like the names in JKR's trophy room indicating many different owners or borrowers of the same library or text book. I still can't see the Tom or the DOR but I'm looking. This is fun!
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 19, 2005 12:38 pm (#74 of 1448)
Hi,
Like everyone else, I've been trying to find these words and signatures on the cover of the UK-Adult cover. So, a big thank you to you , Chemyst, for this HPANA cover.
To everyone still looking at the old cover, give it up. The resolution is too low and several things we thought were there aren't in the higher resolution version.
1. I had found shadowy lettering in the torn area at the top of the page that looked like DOR. In the HPANA version, I can not find these images. I'll try enhancing and stuff later.
2. However, I did find the printed letters A L in the upper right corner of the torn area. Just to the right of these letters is a faded A.
3. I also see faded letters near the upper left corner of the torn area. They are written at a slight diagonal from lower-left to upper-right. I think the first letter is an A. The second letter is an L. The third letter is harder to discern, but is of the D / P / B family. I'm taking a wild stab at the name Albus, but I'm probably completely wrong.
5. There is something in the extreme upper right corner. Although it could be T O M, I couldn't swear to it.
6. There is a series of imprints, that I can not make out clearly at this time. They are in the area just to the left of the folded back piece of leather cover. The lettering travels down and to the right, somewhat paralleling the edge of the leather.
7. There is a smudge in the exposed area at the upper right corner of the book. Could it be lettering?
8. The letters that I had discerned in the earlier cover, just above the CED of ADVANCED are no longer there.
9. There is a curious X, perhaps written in ink, just below the torn area at the top of the book.
10. There are some odd marks along the exposed binding below the tear and to the left of the scroll work.
11. There is definitely some writing near the binding, just above and to the left of Libatius Borage. It could be the H, followed by a few letters and then an elaborate swirl. If so, H could be a first initial and the rest the last name. Equally, it could be the word History.
12. There is also something that could be very small writing in ink below the scroll work that is below Borage's name and to its left. It's between the scroll work and the binding. Then again, it could be just a contiuation of the basic pattern of the book's cover.
13. I can't find anything on the exposed portions of the pages that would distinguish this book. It does have red vertical stripes almost like a ledger. There are page numbers at the upper right of a few of the pages, the number 4, for instance.
14. I can't find any distinguishing marks on the table.
Finally, the torn area at the top of the book has lots of stuff that's half-hidden. It merits serious study.
Thanks,
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GryffEndora - Mar 19, 2005 2:17 pm (#75 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Joanne R. Reid - 2. However, I did find the printed letters A L in the upper right corner of the torn area. Just to the right of these letters is a faded A.
Your absolutely right Joanne, I don't know how I saw "A" but the HPANA version clearly shows A L. I even tried applying a few different stylized filters over the image and every time the A L was clear as day.
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septentrion - Mar 19, 2005 2:48 pm (#76 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
I can't see those AL which you're speaking of. Yet I can see clearly the wrinting at the edge of the binding. What you call a curious X could be a 4 if you look at it sideways.The same with the kind of B under the "m" of making : it could be a 3.And just under the "p" of potions, it could be a 2. Could those numbers have a meaning ? That is, if they're numbers.
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Ydnam96 - Mar 19, 2005 3:18 pm (#77 of 1448)
wow, you all have great eyes. I can only see the "A" and then what looks like an "L" to me on the right side of the white label area on the top. Then just to the lower left of the "M" in Making I can see some loopy writing which first I thought was a 6, then it sorta looked like the "R" when JK signs her name.
That's ALL I see, well I can tell that the book is rather old and appears to have some extra pages shoved in it towards the front of the book (It looks like folded parchment.)
Does anyone have a zoomed in view of it they can post?
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Ponine - Mar 19, 2005 3:37 pm (#78 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
It won't show!! the hpana link does not work anymore, and boy do i feel left out...
Edited: Ginerva - no, I did just try again, - twice - and nothing
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 19, 2005 3:50 pm (#79 of 1448)
Ponine - Try again. I just downloaded it okay.
I still don't see the Tom, but do you think that the word by Making could be Draco? It kinda looks like Draco to me. Or maybe Dragon?
I don't know. The first letter looks more like a D to me than an H.
Thanks for the HPANA link. I was feeling a little left out, too!
Ginny - - - - - - - - - -
Delightful Task! - Mar 20, 2005 7:03 am (#80 of 1448)
Well, the only thing I clearly see is A L... Who could that be though? Lupin's first name is Remus, Alice wasn't called Longbottom when she was at Hogwarts... (The book definitely seems to be a school textbook)
We're left with Algie Longbottom but is he really a Longbottom? I also found Lynch Aidan in the Lexicon... Lestrange and Lovegood begin with an L... and Avery with an A... Any other idea?
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Madam Pince - Mar 20, 2005 9:12 am (#81 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I see the "AL" on the white label now. No idea what it could be.
Good catch about the lined paper coming out of the bottom of the book being vertical lines, Mike! I don't usually think of potions that way, but it sure looks like accountant-type paper! I do see a couple of horizontal lines on the edges of the pages coming out of the side of the book, too. Just a few, though, and they're at the top. It's not like the paper is completely lined horizontally as well as vertically or anything. Accounting paper does have a few horizontal lines, too, so that is certainly looking like a possibility.
Another thing that occurred to me -- the picture is so good, I almost wonder if it is a photograph? What if they just photographed some random, cool-looking old book, which just happened to be an accounting journal or something, and then computer-enhanced the photograph to put the title "Advanced Potion Making by Libatius Borage" on it? The desktop underneath the book almost looks like a photograph, too.
Nah....that would ruin all our fun theories!
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MoonRider - Mar 20, 2005 12:39 pm (#82 of 1448)
Madam Pince: "I almost wonder if it is a photograph?"
Would that, then, be considered an "illustration"? Aren't all the covers done by illustration artists?
Also, Madam Pince, I think someone already mentioned that the AL could be part of "Albus".
I don't see those lines, but I had this thought.....
What if the text inside the Potions book is written in another language------using, even, a different alphabet, Asian, Uighur, Arabic-----hence, the vertical lines?
I think the book is resting on a crate.
I'm afraid the HPANA site "ruined", so-to-speak, the picture of the cover (Potions book)------it seems more clear, actually-----but, then, whatever they did to make it more clear, took away some lighter, or faded, colors, or whatever. I didn't see "Tom" on the picture on the HPANA site, either. When I saw "Tom", I had just opened it in my "Windows Picture and Fax Viewer".
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 20, 2005 12:42 pm (#83 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Madam Pince, I was about to make a similar comment, but was afraid of being stoned! The Bloomsbury site states that "The cover design for the adult edition is from a photograph by Michael Wildsmith." So, it is a photograph. What is not clear is how the photograph was manipulated. My guess is that you are right, and an old book was used and the title was superimposed on the front. This doesn't mean that other things, like letters ,couldn't have also been added, but I doubt it. I'd love to be wrong, and I hate to be a spoilsport!
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Madam Pince - Mar 20, 2005 1:48 pm (#84 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Stones? There are stones??? ***Looking wildly around, Madam Pince ducks***
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 20, 2005 6:45 pm (#85 of 1448)
I can not see the A.L. Is it in black writing?What I see slightly upper left of Libatius Borage is a faded black cursive handwriting that looks like Lily to me.Can anyone else see this?
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Madame Librarian - Mar 20, 2005 6:55 pm (#86 of 1448)
MoonRider, when you scroll down to the lower right corner of the book, you see the lower right edge of the surface it's setting on. It definitely looks to me to be a table top corner (or desk). There seems to be a void underneath it--i.e., the space underneath the table--and going off the pic on the bottom right is what I take to be a table leg. I agree the surface itself could be that of a crate, but with these features I really think it's a table.
Darn, the crate would have been a cool thing. It could have been a storage crate hidden in all kinds of places--Malfoy's floor, the attic at 12 GP, even Pet's squeaky stair.
Ciao. Barb
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 20, 2005 7:02 pm (#87 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Madame Pomfrey, If you look at the top right corner of the white label on the book's cover, you can clearly see the letters A L. Look at the HPANA site to see a blown-up image.
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Amilia Smith - Mar 20, 2005 7:08 pm (#88 of 1448)
Thank you, Accio HBP. I had been looking in the ripped right hand corner of the book, not the label, and had no luck. :-) Now that I know where to look, I can see the AL too!!!
Mills.
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 20, 2005 7:39 pm (#89 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Here's a wild guess. The letters that we can see on the white label are part of the name Minerva McGonagall. If you look at where they are positioned on the label, it fits pretty well with the number of letters in her name.
Also, it could offer other important clues. Could Harry be leaving Privet Drive early so that McGonagall can keep her promise to help him become an Auror by giving him Potion lessons? And if it's her old textbook, could it be proof that McGonagall is single?
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 20, 2005 9:14 pm (#90 of 1448)
Thanks Accio.I can see it now.Can anyone else see the writing just to the upper left of Libatius?It is a word clearly ending in a Y.Possibly Kitty or Lily its hard to tell. I Am Used Vlad I like the idea of it being McGonagall's book.Her name does end in "all" perhaps we are just not seeing all the letters. I take that back.It may not be a Y at all.
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Madame Librarian - Mar 20, 2005 9:25 pm (#91 of 1448)
If the name on the white label was McGonagall, why is the "A" uppercase? Also, for some reason I think Minerva McGonagall, even as a young student, would not have let her book gotten in to such dreadful condition.
Ciao. Barb
Edit--I still can't see any names formed by the scribbles to the left of the name Libatius. I just see...well, curvy scribbles, maybe one of them an "o" that sort of spirals around instead of being a closed circle. Arrrhhhgggh! This is so frustrating!
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Madame Pomfrey - Mar 20, 2005 10:02 pm (#92 of 1448)
Barb,Look right above the white"water mark".If that helps.
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Eloise Black - Mar 21, 2005 1:58 am (#93 of 1448)
Hi All,
If you look at the book with the left edge as the bottom margin, there appears to be a sentence written. I cannot work out what it says as I do not have a program that can enlarge the image or turn the image around. If anybody has a program that allows manipulation of images, you could perhaps try and workout what the sentence tells us.
My other thought was that the various signatures on the front cover of the book where the names of the Heads of Houses. "AL" could be Albus Dumbledoore, and "Nit" could be Flitwick.
Eloise
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Rhiannon - Mar 21, 2005 2:56 am (#94 of 1448)
Hi everyone,
This is my first ever post on here, so I'm a bit nervous not knowing how it works and everything, but there are a few things I'd like to say:
Firstly, I'm wondering if the 'Half Blood Prince' is someone we haven't met before. Think about it... 'Philosopher's Stone', 'Chamber of Secrets', 'Prisoner of Azkaban', 'Goblet of Fire', and 'Order of the Pheonix'. These objects, people and places, we had never come across before, until that book. Just a thought.
Secondly, the book covers for the Half Blood Prince. I've been examining the old potions book on one of the covers, and the things I can see are; an 'A' and an 'L' (possibly a '4' though?) in the right hand corner of what looks like a white label. Also a big '4' between the top line of the title and the top of the book. It is slightly at an angle and looks like ink maybe? I can't see a 'Tom' though, but that would be cool. It is odd how we seem to see different things isn't it?
On amazon.com I typed in Half Blood Prince, and it came up with another book cover too. This one had Dumbledore and Harry (with his wand) looking over something made of stone, which I think must be the pensive. I'm not sure if I've spelled that right though. I wonder what that means? Surely that the pensive is used again, and hopefully it is quite important. This would be a good way to show Harry history wouldn't it?
Last of all I think someone said that the description of a man who was like a lion on JK's website could perhaps be Godric Gryffindor. I like this idea. Or possibly, maybe the new Defence against the Dark Arts teacher? But Godric's dead isn't he? Or maybe they saw him in the pensive?
Please forgive me if these things have been suggested before, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Rhiannon
Oh dear that was really long wasn't it! Hope you got what I meant!
Edited: I really like the idea that the potions book was Minerva's old textbook and she coached Harry to become an Auror. But would that be a pleasant reason? Possibly I suppose, if he really wants that good grade. (which he does).
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septentrion - Mar 21, 2005 3:29 am (#95 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
How weird ! I watch the same picture from HPANA at home and at work and I don't see the same things. The "AL" on the white label are invisible at home but very clear at work. My screen is brighter at work, that may be the reason.
Welcome Rhiannon, and don't be afraid to post your ideas. BTW if you want to know if a subject has already been discussed, try the search function in the tool bar at the top of the main page and at the top of each thread.
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Chemyst - Mar 21, 2005 6:07 am (#96 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
On the UK adult cover:
– One thing that bugs me a little is how the gold leaf lettering of the title, author, and decorative filigree doesn't show wear marks compatible with the most heavily worn places in the leather. I suppose one could excuse it as magical long-lasting ink, but really... It does not look natural to have such fine typography on such a battered book.
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Molly Fox - Mar 21, 2005 9:07 am (#97 of 1448)
You all are great! I've been reading this forum for the last year. I wish my first post were going to be something more outstanding and earth shattering but...
I've been looking at the Potions book cover too, and those pages that are vertical, I think they are note cards stuck in the book. They are too white to be part of the book that has become unbound. If they were part of the book they would be more yellowed around the edges.
I think someone has been working with that book recently, and those note cards are notes and recipes recently added or re-worked by whom ever is currently using the book.
that's all....
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popkin - Mar 21, 2005 10:03 am (#98 of 1448)
mother
Chemyst - Mar 21, 2005 5:07 am (#96 of 97) On the UK adult cover: – One thing that bugs me a little is how the gold leaf lettering of the title, author, and decorative filigree doesn't show wear marks compatible with the most heavily worn places in the leather. I suppose one could excuse it as magical long-lasting ink, but really... It does not look natural to have such fine typography on such a battered book.
That bothered me, too. Since the entire outer layer of the book is worn away, the title should have gone with it. I chalked it up to a Permanent Sticking Charm or something like it.
Above the filigree above the NCE in "advanced", I see a stylized drawing which could be a bearded monster with three eyes (or one big eye like a cyclops), perhaps. It isn't very clear, and I don't know how to enhance the drawing.
I think the book is intended to be turned sideways when opened, and the ledger lines would run horizontally.
I liked Madame Librarian's idea that the book is sitting on top of a trap door (like in Lucius Malfoy's home), and not on a desk as I first supposed. The face of the wood looks more like a floor, but it is too large to be a loose floorboard. The way it is finished underneath made me think of a desk, because the corners are rounded. Rounded corners would not make a good seal on a trap door, though. Now, I just don't know what it is.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 21, 2005 11:08 am (#99 of 1448)
The desk on which the book sits is not unlike an old English school desk. I had a similiar desk in my high school and anyone who has ever seen pictures of The Harrow School For Boys would probably have seen a very similiar desk, inscribed with names of past pupils (Byron, Churchill, etc.) I think it's just a desk, after all Hogwarts is a pretty old school, isn't it?
Aurora xx
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Hollywand - Mar 21, 2005 11:36 am (#100 of 1448)
Gryffindor
And Rowling does mention that she loved to carve into her desk in school. To the left of the book, I see a snake, an egg and an eye at the top, if you look carefully at the eye, the shape of a dragon emerges very much like the dragon on Jo's site. Can't wait....
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 101 to 150)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:16 am
So Sirius - Mar 21, 2005 1:29 pm (#101 of 1448)
Since we're talking about the book here, i'll add my 2 knuts here opposed to a possibly more suitable place.
What I notice on the book is what appears to be a foot print. Under the name of the author on the left, bottom, full bottom of the book, there seems to be a foot print. I do remember Ms. Rowling saying something gave her chills. Maybe when Harry jumps on his Monster book was of some importance. Anyway, I see a foot print.
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MoonRider - Mar 21, 2005 1:59 pm (#102 of 1448)
Chemist & popkin: That's what I meant about HPANA "ruining" (I don't like that word, but I can't think of a better one.) it-----if you both are looking at the picture on that site, that is. If you look at the picture on the Bloomsbury site, for instance, the gold writing is worn.
Madame Librarian: The reason I said I thought it looked like the book was lying on a crate is because when I looked in the far-right, upper corner, I saw a ridge in the wood.
Welcome Rhiannon and Molly Fox!
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Molly Fox - Mar 21, 2005 2:12 pm (#103 of 1448)
Thanks Moon Rider!
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 21, 2005 2:14 pm (#104 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Chemyst - Mar 21, 2005 5:07 am (#96) On the UK adult cover: – One thing that bugs me a little is how the gold leaf lettering of the title, author, and decorative filigree doesn't show wear marks compatible with the most heavily worn places in the leather. I suppose one could excuse it as magical long-lasting ink, but really... It does not look natural to have such fine typography on such a battered book.
Chemyst, The difference is because the title and author have been superimposed on a photograph of an old book. I think Moonrider is right in that the blown-up image makes the difference between the wording and the photograph more apparent. They chose the light font color to help the writing blend into the book but still be legible, but it's quite difficult to make something added blend flawlessly into an image. I do understand why it bothers you though! What I would really love would be to see Michael Wildsmith's original photograph before it was altered, so we could compare the two and see what was added besides the title.
EDIT: I just did a bit of research and found out that the OoP adult cover was also based on a Michael Wildsmith photo. In both cases, William Webb was the "design director".
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MoonRider - Mar 21, 2005 2:25 pm (#105 of 1448)
You're quite welcome Molly Fox!
Are you guys saying that you think the potions book on the cover of the HBP is a photograph-----NOT an illustration drawn from a photograph-----or, are you saying that HPANA's picture is a photograph of the HBP cover?
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 21, 2005 2:27 pm (#106 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
MonnRider, Bloomsbury states that "The cover design for the adult edition is from a photograph by Michael Wildsmith." In my opinion, this means that the potions book is a photograph with superimposed alterations designed by William Webb as design director.
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Dumbledore - Mar 21, 2005 2:39 pm (#107 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
In the upper right corner of the label I can definitely see the A, but I see the writing to the right of it not to be an L, but smaller letters that are too small to be seen, but at first glance looks like an L. I don't think it's supposed to be seen as A L though, and that the actualy letters to the right of the A are just too small to be seen. Of course, this is with my frail eyes and reading this must make mee seem like I've been put under a babbling charm, doesn't it?
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The giant squid - Mar 21, 2005 2:42 pm (#108 of 1448)
Dumbledore: It couldn't say "Albus", could it?
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Dumbledore - Mar 21, 2005 2:44 pm (#109 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Ohh I see what you mean but it also looks like a space between the two words. I know my idea is completely different from everybody else's but it's just what I see! **shakes head and curses lousy vision**
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Madame Librarian - Mar 21, 2005 3:04 pm (#110 of 1448)
I liked Madame Librarian's idea that the book is sitting on top of a trap door (like in Lucius Malfoy's home), and not on a desk as I first supposed.--Popkin
Popkin, I still think it's a table or desk. I forget who it was that thought it was a crate. (Yoo-hoo, please raise your hand.) I just think it would have been neat if it was a crate. Then we could speculate about where the crate had been hidden. Alas, I don't think a whole desk could have been hidden...wait, maybe in a storeroom at Hogwarts. Hmmm...
Madame Pomfrey, thanks for trying to put my eye in right area. Just maybe I do see something now. An "L" almost just to the left of the L in Libatius. Then maybe an "I." Oh, gosh, it's so confusing. Am I seeing this stuff because I really want to see it, or is it really there? Kind of like people who see UFOs all over, isn't it?
One question or oddity, rather. Whatever the scribbles may mean, assuming they spell out a number of different names, I wonder why some of them seem to be done in such a random manner. The Albus one (if that's what it is) is neatly aligned with the edge of the white tape, and just where you'd expect the book's owner to put his name. The others are all over. It's more like someone was doodling names on the cover (or defacing a work of literary importance, as a librarian would term it--hem) while daydreaming in class. What do you think?
Ciao. Barb
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 21, 2005 3:09 pm (#111 of 1448)
I wonder if the scribbles by Libatius spell Harry. It looks like it could to me....but I also thought it looked like it might be Draco! It's anyone's guess I suppose.
Ginny
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Ponine - Mar 21, 2005 3:23 pm (#112 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Could someone pretty please email me a big image, or somehow help me get a bigger picture of the potions cover? I have tried opening the hnpa or whatever it is called, and it will not open. period. I am so frustrated I could throw my monitor out the window, and the biggest cover I have seen is too small to see anything..... ***done wallowing...***
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 21, 2005 4:16 pm (#113 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Ponine, I've just e-mailed you the image as it appears on HPANA as a JPEG file. If it doesn't come through, let me know. I may have to zip it because it's a large file. Helen
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Ydnam96 - Mar 21, 2005 7:01 pm (#114 of 1448)
I tried to screen capture the big picture then use my computer paint program to zoom in on portions but unfortunately the picture was too pixelated to see any of the details any more clearly than they already are. Bummmer....
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Stringer - Mar 21, 2005 7:05 pm (#115 of 1448)
Just a shot in the dark, but the cover of the book to me looks as if the top cover has been torn off to reveal the title. If you look at the bottom left hand corner of the book you see a "purple" thickness, the title of the book looks to be lower than this "purple" covering. It seems to me that if the purple covering continued, it would cover up the title of the book.
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So Sirius - Mar 21, 2005 7:26 pm (#116 of 1448)
Apparently nobody else sees what looks to be a footprint on the bottom of the book. I'll keep that in mind when taking a Rorschach test.
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KWeldon - Mar 21, 2005 8:31 pm (#117 of 1448)
Very Sirius,
I see what looks like tread at the bottom of the book, but I can't make the shape of the foot out, at least not a complete one.
If you bridge that idea together with Madame Librarian's (?) idea about the desk actually being a trap door, I wonder if in fact it could be the squeaky step at 4 Privet Drive?
Far-fetched, I know, but JKR is perfectly capable of such a spectacular idea as Petunia holding a key artifact. It doesn't fit with JKR's statement that we won't see much of the Dursley's in HbP, though.
Off to St. Mungo's, KWeldon
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Mrdrama - Mar 21, 2005 9:31 pm (#118 of 1448)
Very Sirius,
After your comment about the footprint, I also see it! I wonder if it might have been left from someone scurrying to try to hide things, or to sell them, maybe?
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So Sirius - Mar 21, 2005 9:35 pm (#119 of 1448)
Thank you! I love your ideas KWeldon and Mrdrama. Very interesting. Mostly, i'm glad that someone else can see this. lol
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Madame Librarian - Mar 21, 2005 10:21 pm (#120 of 1448)
Are you guys talking about the large blob of gunky looking stuff at the bottom left area of the cover? If so, I guess it could be a tread mark, but it's more like a spill or fungus (!) growing on the cover. A burn mark? Is there something to decipher within that area? Could be a maze pattern, no? Oh, boy, I need to get a life!
Ciao. Barb
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So Sirius - Mar 21, 2005 10:52 pm (#121 of 1448)
Yes, that tread mark that to me looks like a foot print, possibly made by a trainer or sneaker.
I notice something else. Pen marks. A circle made by a pen to the left of the authors name. Another pen mark filling in that white design under the name of the author to the right.
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Rhiannon - Mar 22, 2005 3:57 am (#122 of 1448)
Thanks to the people who said hello.
I'm going mad looking at this book cover at the moment to try and see some of the things that are posted on here!! I think it looks like it is sitting on a desk, but I wish it were floorboards! That would be more mysterious!!
Rhiannon
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mike miller - Mar 22, 2005 11:06 am (#123 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
The pattern at the lower left hand corner of the book looks more like a water mark than a footprint to me.
Since the title, author's name and filigree have been super-imposed onto the old book, I'm wondering if we're looking too deep. **dodges flying tomatos**
I too am looking for some hints or meaning, however, I will be focusing my attention on the possible impact to the story depending upon to whom the book belongs. More to follow once something meaningful gels in my brain.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 22, 2005 12:05 pm (#124 of 1448)
Mike; I too think we are looking too deep into this. I think it's just an old book and apart from the filigree work and the lettering of the title, and the white label, it's just a ratty old book that fits the description of something within the pages of HBP. I think the defacing of the book is Evansesque and misleads us, it's all just part and parcel of being old and tired. The reason I think this is that aged books will always have illegible markings of readers past and the original photo was not intended to show clues on the front because the scale of the image will not allow close scrutiny. HPANA seem to have enhanced the image which could be why the lettering stands out as new.
As for the desk, I'm pretty certain it's a desk or a table (maybe in the library, or Grimmauld place) but it certainly doesn't look like a crate. It's too well polished for a start and the moulding around the underside is too nice to be just an old box.
Aurora xx
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Madam Pince - Mar 22, 2005 3:26 pm (#125 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Oooooo, KWeldon, I like the thought that an old magical textbook could've been hidden under the squeaky stair at 4 Privet Drive!!! Might go a long way towards explaining dear Petunia's unexpected knowledge of the wizarding world, mightn't it? Can't you just see a little sneak of a sister like her rummaging through Lily's school things, reading avidly, and then disparaging her later on? I like it! I am so hopeful that we will get more info on Pet in HBP!
That being said, I do agree with Mike and Aurora and Accio Sirius -- I think it's a photograph of a "real" old book with the title and author added on with computer enhancing. Which would mean that all our speculations about the "doodlings" or initials or whatever are meaningless. But fun and thought-provoking, nonetheless! After all, we have to do something until July!
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mike miller - Mar 22, 2005 3:48 pm (#126 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
As I think of potential owners of the book, I'm discounting Severus Snape as being too obvious and out of sync from a timeline perspective. I think Voldemort had already completed much of his "transformation" by the time Snape would have toyed with being a Death Eater. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
Another obvious owner would be the Half-blood Prince. Since we do not know who this is, it's hard to determine how it might impact the story. However, it may be the most likely owner.
Minerva McGonagall could be the books owner, but it's hard for me to see how helping Harry bring his potions grade up to snuff to continue with his goal of becoming an Auror advances the story.
My hope is that the book belonged to one of Harry's parents. I'm still trying to figure out just how that would advance the story, but it feels more like something JKR would do.
My final candidate is Dumbledore. It would appear from the other covers that DD and Harry will spend more time together in this book.
I think I'm pulling for James and/or Lily!
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Molly Fox - Mar 27, 2005 6:25 pm (#127 of 1448)
I posted this in 'Clues' too, but I thought I would try it here too:
Here is a thought:
Remember when Lucius Malfoy slipped the diary in with Ginny's school books? Well remember what he said about the Weasley's always having tatty second hand books?
Now think about that Advanced Potions book on the cover... Wouldn't Ron be in Advanced potions this year? JKR did say there were clues in COS. What if it's not all about what was in the chamber, but also what happened outside of it?
At the end of COS Dumbledore warns Lucius that he hopes that no more of Tom's old school things ended up in innocent hands. What if Draco plants that book on Ron and it has some altered potion recipes in it. He could, since they always have potions together. At least so far. Sometimes Snape makes them test the potions on each other. What if Draco's detour is to the library or Knockturn alley to alter a potion in that book. If Ron and Harry were paired together in potions and Ron prepared the potion as 'directed' it would backfire on Harry, causing Harry harm.
Any thoughts?
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wynnleaf - Mar 27, 2005 7:17 pm (#128 of 1448)
Hi, After lurking for a over a year this is my first post -- a bit long so I can thoroughly explain these observations.
My husband, who has done much lettering professionally, and I put the UK adult cover into photoshop and after a lot of enhancing we had some thoughts about the cover.
What at first appears to be an A and L on the white tape at the top of the book, seems to be in ink that is newer than the rest of the book -- newer than the white tape itself. We at first assumed that the letters were an A and an L, but the L never quite looked "right." The lower line of the L looked thick. My husband wrote an H in which both the side strokes lean in toward one another, but without quite touching at the top -- producing an H that looks very similar to an A. Then he wrote a slanted, somewhat angular G in which the lower cup and hook of the G is so shallow that it appears like an L. So that would make the initials "HG" -- possibly a book that Hermoine obtains and writes her initials on. Sometimes a person who really admires old books would be hesitant to write much on the book.
Also, there appeared to us to be figures or letters on the desk to the lower right of the book. If these were indeed letters, they appeared to be aligned as though the top of the letters was parallel to the right edge of the book. There seems to be what looks like a large upper case Roman K. We kept enhancing the picture, but finally saw this much more clearly by enhancing and then backing off rather than zooming in. There appeared to be a lower case j to the left of the K, and a smallish upper case R superimposed on top of the K. This looked similar to old style bookplate initials. If, as someone else has mentioned, JK Rowling used to like to carve her initials into desks as a kid, this would fit -- her initials in this desk.
Just some possibilities...
Wynnleaf
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 28, 2005 9:12 am (#129 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Hey all, good job on working on the book cover. Very fun stuff. I just want to let you all know that I finally preordered my copy of HBP at Books-a-Million and I got a Platforms 9 3/4 Ticket along with a coupon book. The ticket is a fun way of redeeming your book. You just show up with your ticket and grab a book. Books-a-Million is having a HP party from 9pm to 12am with face paintings costume contests trivia games and "Classes" from Hogwarts. Then at 12:01am on July 16th 2005 the books go on sale! I'm so excited! I thought I would let you all know so if you want to preorder your book I can say I am pretty happy with my preorder. I'm an American but I'll say it anyways; "Cheers!"
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Hollywand - Mar 28, 2005 6:59 pm (#130 of 1448)
Gryffindor
WynnLeaf, welcome to the Forum. What an interesting first post! I wondered from your careful analysis---it seems to me that "the HbP" is scrawled in fancy white faint letters just beneath the label at the top. Alas, earwax, maybe there's a maze in there, too....
To add to your very interesting list of possible owners of the book, I would like to submit: The Longbottoms-----Neville inherited his dad's wand, so why not his dad's or mom's book? We know the young chap is very interested in herbology and perhaps concoctions to restore his parents.
Yet another candidate could be Luna Lovegood's mom. Didn't she make an unfortunate concoction that was a recipie for disaster? Perhaps Luna has her mum's hand-me-down book. The Lovegoods don't seem wealthy, so a used book, perhaps.
Hmmmmm....
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wynnleaf - Mar 28, 2005 7:04 pm (#131 of 1448)
A basic problem with the book having been originally owned by somebody's parent, or another adult contemporaneous to the parent's generation is that the book looks way to old for that. I've got some of my old textbooks and except for being a bit scruffy, they're nothing like that. However, I've had some books that did look that battered and they were all printed 100-130 years ago.
Wynnleaf
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So Sirius - Mar 29, 2005 8:11 pm (#132 of 1448)
Molly, I like it.
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Molly Fox - Mar 30, 2005 8:12 am (#133 of 1448)
Thank you Very Sirius!
It may not be as detailed as that, but for some reason the 'tatty second hand books' from Lucius, and Dumbledore saying that he hopes no more of Tom's old school things should end up in innocent hands seemed significant.
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KWeldon - Mar 30, 2005 8:27 am (#134 of 1448)
TLC is showing a blow-up of the American kids version of the book. I didn't (or maybe couldn't) notice before that it looks like the death mark is on the bottom left, along with presumably Ron and Hermione on the left and Ginny (?) on the right.
What do you think?
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Her-melanie - Mar 30, 2005 8:40 am (#135 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
OMG!!!!!! THAT IS CHILLING. Presumably Ron, Hermione, and Ginny looking into the London area sky and seeing...I won't say for spoilers' sake. But wow. AAAAHHHHHH, I can't wait!!!!!!
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Elanor - Mar 30, 2005 8:49 am (#136 of 1448)
That is great! There is definitely a town in the background and the "death mark" on that picture really looks like an "ouroboros" symbol, a snake that bites its own tail, to me! Why isn't it July 16th already???
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Elanor - Mar 30, 2005 8:59 am (#137 of 1448)
This is the link for TLC: TLC, you can find it in two different sizes.
EDIT: oops! The question I just answered, which was in the previous post, has disappeared with the said post. My post looks weird now, should I delete mine too?
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 9:46 am (#138 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Elanor,
I don't think you need to delete your post. Thanks for posting a link to the new HBP promotional art work.
I agree that to me it looks like Ron Hermione & Ginny, a town in the background and the Dark Mark. I also agree with the description of the "ouroboros" symbol Elanor!
Very exciting!
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 30, 2005 9:47 am (#139 of 1448)
Hi,
Who are the three people at the base of the column?
I'd guess that the two on the left are Ron and Hermione. Whoever they are, they are very close to each other. Does this suggest that they are close in other ways as well?
Who is the girl to the right? Does she fit the descriptions of anyone we know? She's not Cho. She doesn't look as wide-eyed, or, as Ron might say, goofy looking as Luna. The only other possibility that I can think of is Ginny.
Thanks
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The Artful Dodger - Mar 30, 2005 11:03 am (#140 of 1448)
Well, if the Dark Mark is seen on the cover, cruel things are on their way. I'm thinking of Mr. Weasley's comments about the Dark Mark in GoF... Arthur making these comments could actually mean something even more terrible than in OoP happens to the Weasleys; I hope not!
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scoop2172000 - Mar 30, 2005 11:10 am (#141 of 1448)
My two-knuts-worth on the artwork is that it's Ron and Hermione on the left, and I'm willing to bet (though not with Ludo Bagman) it's Ginny on the right.
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So Sirius - Mar 30, 2005 11:15 am (#142 of 1448)
Great picture. It appears as though Harry and Dumbledore are viewing the 3 people - Ron, Hermione and what I'm guessing to be Luna - watching the dark mark, through the pensieve.
Perhaps it's not a pensieve at all, but a device that allows people to see what's happening elsewhere. Perhaps Harry will need to save his friends at some point.
Edit: Perhaps the town in the background is Spinners End?
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 11:18 am (#143 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
More thoughts on the new art work. The dark Mark could be a sign of things to come but, it could also mean that what DD and Harry are watching is a memory about the Dark Mark. I don't know. However, to follow the memory idea, the person on the right (that I believe is Ginny) could also be a young Lily Potter.
Thoughts?
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Her-melanie - Mar 30, 2005 11:33 am (#144 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Your suggestion about the right-hand girl is exactly what I thought too after looking at it again, Gryffendora! The girl on the right is blurrier, with no clothes on, while Ron and Hermione definitely are dressed for outdoors.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 30, 2005 12:43 pm (#145 of 1448)
Let it snow!
I'm betting on Ginny on the right because it looks like the hair is slightly colored red. And, I think it is more a matter of only seeing her head than not seeing her clothes.
A very interesting idea, Dumbledore and Harry looking at the three of them in the pensieve....
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 30, 2005 1:04 pm (#146 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Reading "Who is the Half-Blood Prince? Find out in 50 days" has gotten me depressed. Because in 50 days we still won't know.
The pictures are great, though.
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Eponine - Mar 30, 2005 1:15 pm (#147 of 1448)
I am of the opinion that the girl in question is Ginny. The shape of her face is almost identical to the picture of Ginny on the back of US hardback CoS.
Edited to add: Mugglenet is reporting that it is Ginny according to their source.
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Madam Pince - Mar 30, 2005 1:37 pm (#148 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Mugglenet didn't say who their source was, did they? Just said the artwork shows "...Ron, Hermione, and Ginny...." Is it possible that's just the author's opinion?
I like the idea it could be Lily....the red hair could work either way. And that girl does appear a little blurrier to me.... Ooooooooo, how exciting! Hurry, hurry, hurry up, July!
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 2:05 pm (#149 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Her-melanie, I guess great minds think alike
I agree she is definately blurrier and much less defined from chin down than the 2 on the left who we are speculating are Ron & Hermione. Either way, Lily or Ginny, I'm thrilled to see them featured!!!
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Gina R Snape - Mar 30, 2005 2:34 pm (#150 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh oh oh, this is so exciting!
Y'know what I thought of first? Well, DD and Harry are looking into the pensieve and viewing this scene. When would this scene have taken place? What about in GoF during the Quidditch World Cup? That was the first time they all saw the Dark Mark, and there is a Dark Mark floating in the air. Ginny isn't standing in the same spot as Ron and Hermione (if that is Ron and Hermione), but perhaps it's a combined memory?
What if the Half Blood Prince was there, at the QWC? Or that something else of importance happened in that scene that we hadn't noticed before?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Since we're talking about the book here, i'll add my 2 knuts here opposed to a possibly more suitable place.
What I notice on the book is what appears to be a foot print. Under the name of the author on the left, bottom, full bottom of the book, there seems to be a foot print. I do remember Ms. Rowling saying something gave her chills. Maybe when Harry jumps on his Monster book was of some importance. Anyway, I see a foot print.
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MoonRider - Mar 21, 2005 1:59 pm (#102 of 1448)
Chemist & popkin: That's what I meant about HPANA "ruining" (I don't like that word, but I can't think of a better one.) it-----if you both are looking at the picture on that site, that is. If you look at the picture on the Bloomsbury site, for instance, the gold writing is worn.
Madame Librarian: The reason I said I thought it looked like the book was lying on a crate is because when I looked in the far-right, upper corner, I saw a ridge in the wood.
Welcome Rhiannon and Molly Fox!
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Molly Fox - Mar 21, 2005 2:12 pm (#103 of 1448)
Thanks Moon Rider!
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 21, 2005 2:14 pm (#104 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Chemyst - Mar 21, 2005 5:07 am (#96) On the UK adult cover: – One thing that bugs me a little is how the gold leaf lettering of the title, author, and decorative filigree doesn't show wear marks compatible with the most heavily worn places in the leather. I suppose one could excuse it as magical long-lasting ink, but really... It does not look natural to have such fine typography on such a battered book.
Chemyst, The difference is because the title and author have been superimposed on a photograph of an old book. I think Moonrider is right in that the blown-up image makes the difference between the wording and the photograph more apparent. They chose the light font color to help the writing blend into the book but still be legible, but it's quite difficult to make something added blend flawlessly into an image. I do understand why it bothers you though! What I would really love would be to see Michael Wildsmith's original photograph before it was altered, so we could compare the two and see what was added besides the title.
EDIT: I just did a bit of research and found out that the OoP adult cover was also based on a Michael Wildsmith photo. In both cases, William Webb was the "design director".
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MoonRider - Mar 21, 2005 2:25 pm (#105 of 1448)
You're quite welcome Molly Fox!
Are you guys saying that you think the potions book on the cover of the HBP is a photograph-----NOT an illustration drawn from a photograph-----or, are you saying that HPANA's picture is a photograph of the HBP cover?
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 21, 2005 2:27 pm (#106 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
MonnRider, Bloomsbury states that "The cover design for the adult edition is from a photograph by Michael Wildsmith." In my opinion, this means that the potions book is a photograph with superimposed alterations designed by William Webb as design director.
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Dumbledore - Mar 21, 2005 2:39 pm (#107 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
In the upper right corner of the label I can definitely see the A, but I see the writing to the right of it not to be an L, but smaller letters that are too small to be seen, but at first glance looks like an L. I don't think it's supposed to be seen as A L though, and that the actualy letters to the right of the A are just too small to be seen. Of course, this is with my frail eyes and reading this must make mee seem like I've been put under a babbling charm, doesn't it?
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The giant squid - Mar 21, 2005 2:42 pm (#108 of 1448)
Dumbledore: It couldn't say "Albus", could it?
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Dumbledore - Mar 21, 2005 2:44 pm (#109 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Ohh I see what you mean but it also looks like a space between the two words. I know my idea is completely different from everybody else's but it's just what I see! **shakes head and curses lousy vision**
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Madame Librarian - Mar 21, 2005 3:04 pm (#110 of 1448)
I liked Madame Librarian's idea that the book is sitting on top of a trap door (like in Lucius Malfoy's home), and not on a desk as I first supposed.--Popkin
Popkin, I still think it's a table or desk. I forget who it was that thought it was a crate. (Yoo-hoo, please raise your hand.) I just think it would have been neat if it was a crate. Then we could speculate about where the crate had been hidden. Alas, I don't think a whole desk could have been hidden...wait, maybe in a storeroom at Hogwarts. Hmmm...
Madame Pomfrey, thanks for trying to put my eye in right area. Just maybe I do see something now. An "L" almost just to the left of the L in Libatius. Then maybe an "I." Oh, gosh, it's so confusing. Am I seeing this stuff because I really want to see it, or is it really there? Kind of like people who see UFOs all over, isn't it?
One question or oddity, rather. Whatever the scribbles may mean, assuming they spell out a number of different names, I wonder why some of them seem to be done in such a random manner. The Albus one (if that's what it is) is neatly aligned with the edge of the white tape, and just where you'd expect the book's owner to put his name. The others are all over. It's more like someone was doodling names on the cover (or defacing a work of literary importance, as a librarian would term it--hem) while daydreaming in class. What do you think?
Ciao. Barb
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Ginerva Potter - Mar 21, 2005 3:09 pm (#111 of 1448)
I wonder if the scribbles by Libatius spell Harry. It looks like it could to me....but I also thought it looked like it might be Draco! It's anyone's guess I suppose.
Ginny
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Ponine - Mar 21, 2005 3:23 pm (#112 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Could someone pretty please email me a big image, or somehow help me get a bigger picture of the potions cover? I have tried opening the hnpa or whatever it is called, and it will not open. period. I am so frustrated I could throw my monitor out the window, and the biggest cover I have seen is too small to see anything..... ***done wallowing...***
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Helen Potterfan - Mar 21, 2005 4:16 pm (#113 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Ponine, I've just e-mailed you the image as it appears on HPANA as a JPEG file. If it doesn't come through, let me know. I may have to zip it because it's a large file. Helen
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Ydnam96 - Mar 21, 2005 7:01 pm (#114 of 1448)
I tried to screen capture the big picture then use my computer paint program to zoom in on portions but unfortunately the picture was too pixelated to see any of the details any more clearly than they already are. Bummmer....
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Stringer - Mar 21, 2005 7:05 pm (#115 of 1448)
Just a shot in the dark, but the cover of the book to me looks as if the top cover has been torn off to reveal the title. If you look at the bottom left hand corner of the book you see a "purple" thickness, the title of the book looks to be lower than this "purple" covering. It seems to me that if the purple covering continued, it would cover up the title of the book.
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So Sirius - Mar 21, 2005 7:26 pm (#116 of 1448)
Apparently nobody else sees what looks to be a footprint on the bottom of the book. I'll keep that in mind when taking a Rorschach test.
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KWeldon - Mar 21, 2005 8:31 pm (#117 of 1448)
Very Sirius,
I see what looks like tread at the bottom of the book, but I can't make the shape of the foot out, at least not a complete one.
If you bridge that idea together with Madame Librarian's (?) idea about the desk actually being a trap door, I wonder if in fact it could be the squeaky step at 4 Privet Drive?
Far-fetched, I know, but JKR is perfectly capable of such a spectacular idea as Petunia holding a key artifact. It doesn't fit with JKR's statement that we won't see much of the Dursley's in HbP, though.
Off to St. Mungo's, KWeldon
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Mrdrama - Mar 21, 2005 9:31 pm (#118 of 1448)
Very Sirius,
After your comment about the footprint, I also see it! I wonder if it might have been left from someone scurrying to try to hide things, or to sell them, maybe?
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So Sirius - Mar 21, 2005 9:35 pm (#119 of 1448)
Thank you! I love your ideas KWeldon and Mrdrama. Very interesting. Mostly, i'm glad that someone else can see this. lol
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Madame Librarian - Mar 21, 2005 10:21 pm (#120 of 1448)
Are you guys talking about the large blob of gunky looking stuff at the bottom left area of the cover? If so, I guess it could be a tread mark, but it's more like a spill or fungus (!) growing on the cover. A burn mark? Is there something to decipher within that area? Could be a maze pattern, no? Oh, boy, I need to get a life!
Ciao. Barb
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So Sirius - Mar 21, 2005 10:52 pm (#121 of 1448)
Yes, that tread mark that to me looks like a foot print, possibly made by a trainer or sneaker.
I notice something else. Pen marks. A circle made by a pen to the left of the authors name. Another pen mark filling in that white design under the name of the author to the right.
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Rhiannon - Mar 22, 2005 3:57 am (#122 of 1448)
Thanks to the people who said hello.
I'm going mad looking at this book cover at the moment to try and see some of the things that are posted on here!! I think it looks like it is sitting on a desk, but I wish it were floorboards! That would be more mysterious!!
Rhiannon
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mike miller - Mar 22, 2005 11:06 am (#123 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
The pattern at the lower left hand corner of the book looks more like a water mark than a footprint to me.
Since the title, author's name and filigree have been super-imposed onto the old book, I'm wondering if we're looking too deep. **dodges flying tomatos**
I too am looking for some hints or meaning, however, I will be focusing my attention on the possible impact to the story depending upon to whom the book belongs. More to follow once something meaningful gels in my brain.
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Aurora Gubbins - Mar 22, 2005 12:05 pm (#124 of 1448)
Mike; I too think we are looking too deep into this. I think it's just an old book and apart from the filigree work and the lettering of the title, and the white label, it's just a ratty old book that fits the description of something within the pages of HBP. I think the defacing of the book is Evansesque and misleads us, it's all just part and parcel of being old and tired. The reason I think this is that aged books will always have illegible markings of readers past and the original photo was not intended to show clues on the front because the scale of the image will not allow close scrutiny. HPANA seem to have enhanced the image which could be why the lettering stands out as new.
As for the desk, I'm pretty certain it's a desk or a table (maybe in the library, or Grimmauld place) but it certainly doesn't look like a crate. It's too well polished for a start and the moulding around the underside is too nice to be just an old box.
Aurora xx
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Madam Pince - Mar 22, 2005 3:26 pm (#125 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Oooooo, KWeldon, I like the thought that an old magical textbook could've been hidden under the squeaky stair at 4 Privet Drive!!! Might go a long way towards explaining dear Petunia's unexpected knowledge of the wizarding world, mightn't it? Can't you just see a little sneak of a sister like her rummaging through Lily's school things, reading avidly, and then disparaging her later on? I like it! I am so hopeful that we will get more info on Pet in HBP!
That being said, I do agree with Mike and Aurora and Accio Sirius -- I think it's a photograph of a "real" old book with the title and author added on with computer enhancing. Which would mean that all our speculations about the "doodlings" or initials or whatever are meaningless. But fun and thought-provoking, nonetheless! After all, we have to do something until July!
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mike miller - Mar 22, 2005 3:48 pm (#126 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
As I think of potential owners of the book, I'm discounting Severus Snape as being too obvious and out of sync from a timeline perspective. I think Voldemort had already completed much of his "transformation" by the time Snape would have toyed with being a Death Eater. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.
Another obvious owner would be the Half-blood Prince. Since we do not know who this is, it's hard to determine how it might impact the story. However, it may be the most likely owner.
Minerva McGonagall could be the books owner, but it's hard for me to see how helping Harry bring his potions grade up to snuff to continue with his goal of becoming an Auror advances the story.
My hope is that the book belonged to one of Harry's parents. I'm still trying to figure out just how that would advance the story, but it feels more like something JKR would do.
My final candidate is Dumbledore. It would appear from the other covers that DD and Harry will spend more time together in this book.
I think I'm pulling for James and/or Lily!
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Molly Fox - Mar 27, 2005 6:25 pm (#127 of 1448)
I posted this in 'Clues' too, but I thought I would try it here too:
Here is a thought:
Remember when Lucius Malfoy slipped the diary in with Ginny's school books? Well remember what he said about the Weasley's always having tatty second hand books?
Now think about that Advanced Potions book on the cover... Wouldn't Ron be in Advanced potions this year? JKR did say there were clues in COS. What if it's not all about what was in the chamber, but also what happened outside of it?
At the end of COS Dumbledore warns Lucius that he hopes that no more of Tom's old school things ended up in innocent hands. What if Draco plants that book on Ron and it has some altered potion recipes in it. He could, since they always have potions together. At least so far. Sometimes Snape makes them test the potions on each other. What if Draco's detour is to the library or Knockturn alley to alter a potion in that book. If Ron and Harry were paired together in potions and Ron prepared the potion as 'directed' it would backfire on Harry, causing Harry harm.
Any thoughts?
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wynnleaf - Mar 27, 2005 7:17 pm (#128 of 1448)
Hi, After lurking for a over a year this is my first post -- a bit long so I can thoroughly explain these observations.
My husband, who has done much lettering professionally, and I put the UK adult cover into photoshop and after a lot of enhancing we had some thoughts about the cover.
What at first appears to be an A and L on the white tape at the top of the book, seems to be in ink that is newer than the rest of the book -- newer than the white tape itself. We at first assumed that the letters were an A and an L, but the L never quite looked "right." The lower line of the L looked thick. My husband wrote an H in which both the side strokes lean in toward one another, but without quite touching at the top -- producing an H that looks very similar to an A. Then he wrote a slanted, somewhat angular G in which the lower cup and hook of the G is so shallow that it appears like an L. So that would make the initials "HG" -- possibly a book that Hermoine obtains and writes her initials on. Sometimes a person who really admires old books would be hesitant to write much on the book.
Also, there appeared to us to be figures or letters on the desk to the lower right of the book. If these were indeed letters, they appeared to be aligned as though the top of the letters was parallel to the right edge of the book. There seems to be what looks like a large upper case Roman K. We kept enhancing the picture, but finally saw this much more clearly by enhancing and then backing off rather than zooming in. There appeared to be a lower case j to the left of the K, and a smallish upper case R superimposed on top of the K. This looked similar to old style bookplate initials. If, as someone else has mentioned, JK Rowling used to like to carve her initials into desks as a kid, this would fit -- her initials in this desk.
Just some possibilities...
Wynnleaf
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Thomas Phifer - Mar 28, 2005 9:12 am (#129 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Hey all, good job on working on the book cover. Very fun stuff. I just want to let you all know that I finally preordered my copy of HBP at Books-a-Million and I got a Platforms 9 3/4 Ticket along with a coupon book. The ticket is a fun way of redeeming your book. You just show up with your ticket and grab a book. Books-a-Million is having a HP party from 9pm to 12am with face paintings costume contests trivia games and "Classes" from Hogwarts. Then at 12:01am on July 16th 2005 the books go on sale! I'm so excited! I thought I would let you all know so if you want to preorder your book I can say I am pretty happy with my preorder. I'm an American but I'll say it anyways; "Cheers!"
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Hollywand - Mar 28, 2005 6:59 pm (#130 of 1448)
Gryffindor
WynnLeaf, welcome to the Forum. What an interesting first post! I wondered from your careful analysis---it seems to me that "the HbP" is scrawled in fancy white faint letters just beneath the label at the top. Alas, earwax, maybe there's a maze in there, too....
To add to your very interesting list of possible owners of the book, I would like to submit: The Longbottoms-----Neville inherited his dad's wand, so why not his dad's or mom's book? We know the young chap is very interested in herbology and perhaps concoctions to restore his parents.
Yet another candidate could be Luna Lovegood's mom. Didn't she make an unfortunate concoction that was a recipie for disaster? Perhaps Luna has her mum's hand-me-down book. The Lovegoods don't seem wealthy, so a used book, perhaps.
Hmmmmm....
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wynnleaf - Mar 28, 2005 7:04 pm (#131 of 1448)
A basic problem with the book having been originally owned by somebody's parent, or another adult contemporaneous to the parent's generation is that the book looks way to old for that. I've got some of my old textbooks and except for being a bit scruffy, they're nothing like that. However, I've had some books that did look that battered and they were all printed 100-130 years ago.
Wynnleaf
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So Sirius - Mar 29, 2005 8:11 pm (#132 of 1448)
Molly, I like it.
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Molly Fox - Mar 30, 2005 8:12 am (#133 of 1448)
Thank you Very Sirius!
It may not be as detailed as that, but for some reason the 'tatty second hand books' from Lucius, and Dumbledore saying that he hopes no more of Tom's old school things should end up in innocent hands seemed significant.
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KWeldon - Mar 30, 2005 8:27 am (#134 of 1448)
TLC is showing a blow-up of the American kids version of the book. I didn't (or maybe couldn't) notice before that it looks like the death mark is on the bottom left, along with presumably Ron and Hermione on the left and Ginny (?) on the right.
What do you think?
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Her-melanie - Mar 30, 2005 8:40 am (#135 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
OMG!!!!!! THAT IS CHILLING. Presumably Ron, Hermione, and Ginny looking into the London area sky and seeing...I won't say for spoilers' sake. But wow. AAAAHHHHHH, I can't wait!!!!!!
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Elanor - Mar 30, 2005 8:49 am (#136 of 1448)
That is great! There is definitely a town in the background and the "death mark" on that picture really looks like an "ouroboros" symbol, a snake that bites its own tail, to me! Why isn't it July 16th already???
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Elanor - Mar 30, 2005 8:59 am (#137 of 1448)
This is the link for TLC: TLC, you can find it in two different sizes.
EDIT: oops! The question I just answered, which was in the previous post, has disappeared with the said post. My post looks weird now, should I delete mine too?
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 9:46 am (#138 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Elanor,
I don't think you need to delete your post. Thanks for posting a link to the new HBP promotional art work.
I agree that to me it looks like Ron Hermione & Ginny, a town in the background and the Dark Mark. I also agree with the description of the "ouroboros" symbol Elanor!
Very exciting!
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Joanne R. Reid - Mar 30, 2005 9:47 am (#139 of 1448)
Hi,
Who are the three people at the base of the column?
I'd guess that the two on the left are Ron and Hermione. Whoever they are, they are very close to each other. Does this suggest that they are close in other ways as well?
Who is the girl to the right? Does she fit the descriptions of anyone we know? She's not Cho. She doesn't look as wide-eyed, or, as Ron might say, goofy looking as Luna. The only other possibility that I can think of is Ginny.
Thanks
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The Artful Dodger - Mar 30, 2005 11:03 am (#140 of 1448)
Well, if the Dark Mark is seen on the cover, cruel things are on their way. I'm thinking of Mr. Weasley's comments about the Dark Mark in GoF... Arthur making these comments could actually mean something even more terrible than in OoP happens to the Weasleys; I hope not!
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scoop2172000 - Mar 30, 2005 11:10 am (#141 of 1448)
My two-knuts-worth on the artwork is that it's Ron and Hermione on the left, and I'm willing to bet (though not with Ludo Bagman) it's Ginny on the right.
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So Sirius - Mar 30, 2005 11:15 am (#142 of 1448)
Great picture. It appears as though Harry and Dumbledore are viewing the 3 people - Ron, Hermione and what I'm guessing to be Luna - watching the dark mark, through the pensieve.
Perhaps it's not a pensieve at all, but a device that allows people to see what's happening elsewhere. Perhaps Harry will need to save his friends at some point.
Edit: Perhaps the town in the background is Spinners End?
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 11:18 am (#143 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
More thoughts on the new art work. The dark Mark could be a sign of things to come but, it could also mean that what DD and Harry are watching is a memory about the Dark Mark. I don't know. However, to follow the memory idea, the person on the right (that I believe is Ginny) could also be a young Lily Potter.
Thoughts?
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Her-melanie - Mar 30, 2005 11:33 am (#144 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Your suggestion about the right-hand girl is exactly what I thought too after looking at it again, Gryffendora! The girl on the right is blurrier, with no clothes on, while Ron and Hermione definitely are dressed for outdoors.
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S.E. Jones - Mar 30, 2005 12:43 pm (#145 of 1448)
Let it snow!
I'm betting on Ginny on the right because it looks like the hair is slightly colored red. And, I think it is more a matter of only seeing her head than not seeing her clothes.
A very interesting idea, Dumbledore and Harry looking at the three of them in the pensieve....
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I Am Used Vlad - Mar 30, 2005 1:04 pm (#146 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Reading "Who is the Half-Blood Prince? Find out in 50 days" has gotten me depressed. Because in 50 days we still won't know.
The pictures are great, though.
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Eponine - Mar 30, 2005 1:15 pm (#147 of 1448)
I am of the opinion that the girl in question is Ginny. The shape of her face is almost identical to the picture of Ginny on the back of US hardback CoS.
Edited to add: Mugglenet is reporting that it is Ginny according to their source.
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Madam Pince - Mar 30, 2005 1:37 pm (#148 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Mugglenet didn't say who their source was, did they? Just said the artwork shows "...Ron, Hermione, and Ginny...." Is it possible that's just the author's opinion?
I like the idea it could be Lily....the red hair could work either way. And that girl does appear a little blurrier to me.... Ooooooooo, how exciting! Hurry, hurry, hurry up, July!
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 2:05 pm (#149 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Her-melanie, I guess great minds think alike
I agree she is definately blurrier and much less defined from chin down than the 2 on the left who we are speculating are Ron & Hermione. Either way, Lily or Ginny, I'm thrilled to see them featured!!!
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Gina R Snape - Mar 30, 2005 2:34 pm (#150 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh oh oh, this is so exciting!
Y'know what I thought of first? Well, DD and Harry are looking into the pensieve and viewing this scene. When would this scene have taken place? What about in GoF during the Quidditch World Cup? That was the first time they all saw the Dark Mark, and there is a Dark Mark floating in the air. Ginny isn't standing in the same spot as Ron and Hermione (if that is Ron and Hermione), but perhaps it's a combined memory?
What if the Half Blood Prince was there, at the QWC? Or that something else of importance happened in that scene that we hadn't noticed before?
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 151 to 200)
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mooncalf - Mar 30, 2005 2:45 pm (#151 of 1448)
Edited by Mar 30, 2005 1:46 pm
I don't think that Harry and Dumbledore are necessarily looking at that scene in the pensieve. Most of the other book covers have shown things that we wouldn't necessarily have seen together.
On the Scholastic dust jacket for POA, for instance, we see Harry and Hermoine on Buckbeak, with Sirius through the window, but we also see a cat, a rat, a wolf (or is it a dog?), four dementors, the Whomping Willow, a crescent moon and a white stag. There is no point in the book where all these things appear together - putting them in one illustration is a form of artistic license.
So the question is, how many different scenes does this exciting new artwork show?
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 3:09 pm (#152 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Mooncalf - So the question is, how many different scenes does this exciting new art work show?
Great point Mooncalf!!! There could definately be several elements going on here. Even OotP had several different events on the cover.
What if the town isn't London but Hogsmeade? An attack near the school? The Dark Mark in Hogsmeade? Perhaps at the 3 Broomsticks or The Hogs Head? Do you think anyone would go after Aberforth to get to Albus?
Now I think I'm rambling... still very excited with new images and can't wait to hear everyone's input!
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KWeldon - Mar 30, 2005 4:50 pm (#153 of 1448)
I agree with Mooncalf, and I'm betting that we are going to see the Dark Mark again.
My impression of the cover as a whole is that Ron, Hermione, and Ginny(?) are not being looked at by Harry and DD in the Pensieve, but that whatever Harry and DD see in the Pensieve is going to affect them, indirectly or not.
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Joshua Little - Mar 30, 2005 5:30 pm (#154 of 1448)
I would be inclined to think that the HBP is a entirely new person we haven't seen yet though might have heard of or been hinted at but if I have to throw my money in with someone already in the books i am gunna go with Snape to be Half-Blood Prince. He seems like a good candidate and with a potion book for a cover it seems more likely he is important. He is the be all and end all for potions at Hogwarts.
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mooncalf - Mar 30, 2005 5:45 pm (#155 of 1448)
Like you, Joshua, I assume that the HBP is someone we haven't met yet.
KWeldon, I would agree; I don't think that Harry and Dumbledore are looking at the other folks in the picture. But It does look as though Ron, Hermoine and Ginny (?) are looking at the dark mark.
And like GryffEndora, I think that the skyline looks more like a village than a city. It could be anywhere - Hogsmeade, Ottery St. Catchpole, Spinner's End, Godric's Hollow. It gives me chills to think bout it!
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Madam Pince - Mar 30, 2005 6:25 pm (#156 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
****jumps in the bandwagon with KWeldon, Mooncalf, and Joshua****
I also think that the new artwork is more of a collection of scenes, rather than a single scene of Harry and Dumbledore looking down at the three new faces looking up. A "collection" would be more typical of Mary GrandPre's style, as Mooncalf pointed out.
And I also think that the HBP is someone we haven't heard of yet, unless he's someone that was barely mentioned in passing in COS, and is therefore the "important clue" that JKR has made reference to.
I'll bet the Dark Mark appears over Hogsmeade -- just a hunch, but there it is! I don't know how I could say that the skyline doesn't look like London to me, because I've never actually seen London's skyline, but I'm thinking it's more like Hogsmeade.
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KWeldon - Mar 30, 2005 7:04 pm (#157 of 1448)
For that matter, the skyline may not even reflect a particular place, but essentially represent Great Britain in general.
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haymoni - Mar 30, 2005 8:11 pm (#158 of 1448)
How big (the length measurement) is this book???
Are we looking at the "real" front cover or is this some combo of the front and back covers?
Or is it something else created just for this 50 day thing?
First glance, I see Ron, Hermione & Ginny - I agree that the "Ginny" is very similar to the cover of COS.
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septentrion - Mar 31, 2005 1:24 am (#159 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
About the girl on the right, my first thought was Lily because the description fits and because she's isolated. It could mean we're going to learn something really significant about her. On the other hand, why not Ginny ? Ginny played a particular part in CoS, the book in which the plot for HBP was supposed to take place first. All of this to say I'm confused about her identity.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 31, 2005 1:50 am (#160 of 1448)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
haymoni: I interpreted the Leaky article as saying this new picture had been created as a seperate advertising vehicle. Book marks, posters, big cards etc probably.
You may well be right is suggesting that the front and back covers a merged just a tad. I don't think we've seen the last of the cover art yet.
Lizzy
EDIT: I'm leaning 50-50 between Ginny and Lily. Hard to say who the artisit intended it to be.
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Verschwinden Sie - Mar 31, 2005 3:23 am (#161 of 1448)
Well, it's been quite a while since last I was here, and forever and a day since I was here on a consistent basis. I'll spare you the details, but for the moment I'm back.
Thank God I'm not the only one who went "Well, that's a pensieve... but I'll be snookered if it's not sitting on top of the Pillar of Storge"...
According to the editor of the books (whose name could be revealing) I think maybe we should look at all the covers to see if they give us a larger idea about the book since we are told each cover is a distillation of a specific part of the book.
Thinking of the cover of the UK Adult Edition, though, I have looked at "the stain". My first thought is, oddly enough, not to overanalyze it and say it's not initials, but rather just an ink stain. When was I ever one to discard something so easily, though? Come on, man... I looked at over a hundred names just to figure out that Theodore Nott was the only one which occurred in those cracker riddles. I obviously like a good mental exercise.
My second impression is if they are writing, they say something more than is left behind, because there is what looks to me like a large water stain on label at the top of the book on which the initials are written. Being one of probably three people in the world under the age of seventy five who absolutely insists on using a fountain pen for all his writing, I can tell you from long experience that water splashing on ink from a proper pen and not, for instance, one of those abominable Bics, produces a stain VERY MUCH like the water stain on that label, so I would guess from the nature of the staining and other things (there are actually small dots of ink around the letters in question which have water staining in between them and which are suggestive of continuations of the writing), we are looking at pieces of larger letters which have largely been blotted out. All that said, it would be my guess were this the case the second letter is actually part of an H.
On from that and assuming the letters are actually complete, it could simply be an homage to the editor of the book, Arthur Levine... and if it is, I would say it's long overdue since Mr. Levine is probably the second most responsible person for the direction of the Harry Potter story, next to J.K. Rowling herself.
Or, if we're going for A.L. as the initials of a character, I might suggest due to the age of the book, it could be short for "Alice Longbottom". We do have precedence for Neville re-using his parents' wizarding supplies, and we have an example in "Order of the Phoenix" which clearly points to him holding everything of his mother's dear. They do say at the end of OotP Neville does well in potions once Snape is out of the way, and considering both his attachment to his parents and the level of anger he feels over their fates, I can imagine with his newly developing confidence he would tolerate Snape in order to follow in their footsteps and become an auror. There would have to be something very satisfying to being able to exact justice on those responsible for destroying both his and his parents' lives.
And of course, it could just as easily be a blurry NL in that case (or A.L. for Algie Longbottom, too).
Were I a betting man and the last initial was an L, though, I would probably bet the initials in question aren't A.L. In considering, I would probably take the following into account:
1) The book itself is very tattered and reminiscent of the type of property one would own if he or she didn't have money or the resources to purchase new property or take care of it properly.
2) The table it sits on is also shabby and reminiscent of those conditions.
3) The name of the author, when distilled out, means "drink [beverage] to heal the heart".
4) We have been given a specific clue, in an obvious way most of us couldn't help but noticing because it stood out like a sore thumb, about someone who suffers from an illness which plagues their heart.
5) We have been given a specific clue about a character (and only one character, believe it or not) who would specifically own shabby property of this type as a result of this affliction.
6) We have been given a specific character with a need for advanced potion to ease this affliction.
7) That borage is, and has traditionally been, mistaken for a plant in the Lycopsis family.
That it is so mistaken due to the fur-like hair on it, which is where the possible origin of the name Borage comes from.
9) That in one of the native dialects of the British Isles (Celtic), the name Borage could very possibly descend from a word meaning "a man of great courage".
10) That we have been given a specific character who fits all the above criteria; and that
11) His initials just happen to greatly resemble A.L....
Needless to say, I would guess the marks in question, were they actually initials and not just random spots of ink and were the complete initials, aren't A.L. but rather R.L.
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Archangel - Mar 31, 2005 4:57 am (#162 of 1448)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
New artwork... hip hip hooray!
My take on the whole picture -- What happened before is now happening again. I'm basing this on the outlines for the two sides; they seem to be mirror images. The past is represented by Lily and the present/near future represented by Hermione and Ron.
Dumbledore and Harry are in the thrust in middle as the use the Pensieve sifting through memories, trying to find the connection that they might have missed before.
The Death Mark is situated in Ron & Hermione's side and seems to be swirling. So, what goes around, comes around...
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 6:00 am (#163 of 1448)
Yesterday, I had been willing to bet the girl on the right was Ginny. But having read subsequent posts, I'm willing to concede that maybe the girl is a young Lily. After all, aren't we supposed to learn something big about Lily in Book 6?
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Snuffles - Mar 31, 2005 6:04 am (#164 of 1448)
Olivia
Just a thought, but if Harry and DD are looking into a pensieve could the 3 people be James and Lily on the left and Petunia on the right? Pet seems to know more about the wizarding world than she lets on!
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GryffEndora - Mar 31, 2005 10:23 am (#165 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Snuffles - Petunia is blond, so I don't think it could be her, since the girl on the right is clearly (to me) a red head.
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Eponine - Mar 31, 2005 11:01 am (#166 of 1448)
Okay, here are links to previous drawings by Mary Grand Pre of Ginny and Lily.
Lily
Ginny
mystery girl
In comparing her previous renditions of Ginny and Lily, the new picture seems to be an older Ginny in comparison to the back cover of CoS.
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KWeldon - Mar 31, 2005 11:23 am (#167 of 1448)
I would guess the marks in question, were they actually initials and not just random spots of ink and were the complete initials, aren't A.L. but rather R.L.
Andrew, while I may not buy all of your reasoning for this, I am seriously hoping that you are right.
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MickeyCee3948 - Mar 31, 2005 11:28 am (#168 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Andrew very well thought out post and makes alot of sense. Good Catch Old Man.
Mikie
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 12:03 pm (#169 of 1448)
Eponine:
Thanks for giving us the links to the three drawings. After reviewing them, I think you're right: it is an older Ginny. The button nose seems to be the same, as is the longer hair style.
So, I've vacilated yet again: could it be Ginny (first bet), could it be a young Lily (second thought based on other readers' posts). I'm back to Ginny being the girl on the right.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 31, 2005 12:36 pm (#170 of 1448)
If the three are in fact Ginny, Ron, and Hermione, then this raises the question where is Neville? The absence of Luna could be explained by the fact she is a different house and might not be present if it occurs during a time when the Gryffindors are in class.
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Her-melanie - Mar 31, 2005 1:05 pm (#171 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I really think based on the appearance it could be either. What makes me think it is young Lily the most is the haziness or smudginess of the drawing; it is not as solid (or clothed!) as Ron/Hermione. Also, the fact that they're separated. It just feels to me like two different areas separated by the pillar. I feel like if it were Ginny (which it still could be) she would be with Ron and Hermione. Also, I'm pretty sure Lily will be important in the book, so it would make sense to include her on the cover. For all we know, both Lily and James could have left a pensieve behind containing their own memories for their son to experience. Maybe that's what DD and Harry are looking at!
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 1:05 pm (#172 of 1448)
I don't see Neville (or Luna) being on the same level as Ginny.
Ginny has become part of the Harry-Hermione-Ron inner circle by virtue of having separate friendships with the first two and siblinghood with the third.
Neville, though he has become a friend, isn't a confidant, nor is Luna.
Put it another way: Harry likes Neville and Luna, but he doesn't love them. Ginny is another matter -- and I'm not talking 'ship here, though for the record, I am a Harry/Ginny 'shipper. I'm talking about the love Harry holds for members of the Weasley family. O.K., Percy doesn't count, and Harry doesn't know Charlie and Bill all that well. But the rest of the Weasleys are family to him.
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Steve Newton - Mar 31, 2005 1:27 pm (#173 of 1448)
Librarian
As TomProffitt put it several months ago, Harry's inner circle, core group, are the ones who ride to Hogwarts with him. So far this includes, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Luna and Neville. And Lupin. The students just happen to be the ones who went to the Department of Mysteries.
In SS Harry and Ron decide that fighting a troll together makes one a friend. (I wish I could remember the exact quote.)
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 2:00 pm (#174 of 1448)
Steve, I can't recall the quote either, and I don't have the book handy -- but I remember that Harry and Ron decided to be friends with Hermione because of the troll incident
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Grindylow - Mar 31, 2005 2:52 pm (#175 of 1448)
"But from that moment on, Hermione Granger became their friend. There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them."
Sorcerer's Stone Chapter 10 page 179 (paperback)
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Steve Newton - Mar 31, 2005 2:59 pm (#176 of 1448)
Librarian
Gracias!
I think that fighting the baddest bad guys of them all would also qualify.
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GryffEndora - Mar 31, 2005 3:19 pm (#177 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Nice connections about the ever expanding inner circle of Harry's friends. I liked the connection between who Harry rides to school with and who he fights evil with. Not to mention that overcoming obstacles together seems to form strong friendships.
As to the "mystery girl", after comparing the images, I lean toward Ginny because of the round face where Lily seems to have an oval or heart shaped face, definately longer vertically than Ginny's who seems to have a shorter rounder face. I hope that makes some sense.
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green shoes - Mar 31, 2005 4:14 pm (#178 of 1448)
"DON'T PANIC."
Hey all, my first thought was that the mystery girl on the cover is Ginny W. but now that I have looked the three drawings more (thanks to whomever posted those) I think it is Lilly. Someone said that the drawing is more smudged, ghost like, I think. The mystery girl has an ethereal quality to her, she is less solid and stable than Hermione and Ron...I'm so terribly excited...
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So Sirius - Mar 31, 2005 5:17 pm (#179 of 1448)
I was looking at the picture again and perhaps it's none of the kids we know, yet other Hogwarts students or random kids that have no bearing on the story, other than the fact that they're in danger from the death eaters and perhaps as I originally suggested, Harry and Dumbledore are seeing this happen from a distance away, not through a pensieve, but a device that allows for this.
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KWeldon - Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm (#180 of 1448)
I wonder if the fact that R/H and mystery girl are looking in the same direction suggests that they are contemporaries, indicating that mystery girl is not Lily? That is, what about the book's plot would have Lily looking in the same direction as R/H are? If I had been the artist and I wanted to draw Lily, I might have her "smudged" looking, but I would have her face front or just to the side. Why draw Lily looking up?
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Amilia Smith - Mar 31, 2005 10:00 pm (#181 of 1448)
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that we have a dark mark floating above Ron and Hermione? I am now officially worried.
Mills.
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Jo S - Mar 31, 2005 11:15 pm (#182 of 1448)
I think that the people down the bottom (looking up at the dark mark) are from one drawing, whilst obviously Harry and Ddore are another drawing. If you remove teh pillar from the middle and push them together, it could be one picture of people looking up at th dark mark. I think that it is ron, hermione and ginny. If it were 1 picture then lily would be out of place.im guessing that the dark mark will turn up at the burrow.more on this theory later... sorry about my typing, im holding my 4 month old daughter at the same time
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The Artful Dodger - Apr 1, 2005 2:39 am (#183 of 1448)
Has anyone else but me tried to find out the right person's eye colour? They look green to me (a very greyish-brownish sort of green, but still), so the person could indeed be Lily.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 1, 2005 4:59 am (#184 of 1448)
Having looked at a very large, high-res scan of the stand-up in question, I don't think the "mystery girl" on the right hand side actually has the irises of her eyes colored. It looks to me like the only thing there as far as eye detail is a basic outline to suggest the eyes are there, and that any color is due to the pervasive green mist, which is casting a pall over the people in it.
I also think the three characters at the bottom are probably Ron, Hermione, and Ginny... if for no other reason than it makes sense those three would be together and near Harry and Dumbledore, and it doesn't really make any sense to corporeally represent Lily Potter when J.K. Rowling has said she won't appear that way in the series, especially in light of the fact Voldemort is only represented by the ethereal Dark Mark (which would be in line with the suggestions made by J.K. Rowling that he won't be a significant physical presence in this book).
I am, however, intrigued by the prominence placed on Dumbledore and Harry both looking into the pensieve (if that's what it is) at the same time, because it suggests memories of the past are going to be important to their battle... just as I am intrigued by the placement of the three ancillary characters (I'm just going to call them Ron, Hermione, and Ginny). I think, in light of the fact Mary GrandPre has read the book and probably drawn much of her inspiration for the cover from it, it's probably telling that both Ron and Hermione fall under the shadow of the Dark Mark, but Ginny is set apart from them and does not.
However, I think it makes logical sense they do so. Unlike my theory we're probably reading too much into the "initials" on the Advanced Potions book, I would bet there's some foreshadowing going on in suggesting those three characters are prominent and two of them are in direct danger. Voldemort is well aware of Hermione and Ron's importance to Harry, so they would be logical targets to strike at should he want to hurt Harry, demoralize him, or provoke him into an aggressive and uncalculated move. Harry's certainly proven (especially lately) he has a tendency to want to leap before thinking matters through all the way when his blood is up... and which two people generally provide a stabilizing counterpoint and force Harry to settle down and not go popping off doing anything rash, or at least to take back up with him if he insists on going through with something less than wise?
Ginny, on the other hand, can play a very vital role because she's actually spent a significant amount of time mind to mind with Voldemort (or at least some form of him) and therefore knows how he thinks, but Voldemort himself DOES NOT KNOW THIS. After all, I think it's highly unlikely Lucius Malfoy ever got around to saying:
"While I'm thinking of it, rather than coming and seeing if you were alive and helping you, I decided to just give you up for dead, make another copy, and let HIM have all your power and glory. As it turned out, he and Harry got into a fight just like the prophecy said you guys would and one of you DID end up dying, just like it said, but...ummmm... Harry killed you, in case you were wondering how the battle might go. Anywyay I only mention it because, due to my actions, there's a slight chance a little girl out there knows exactly how you think because a significant chunk of you was trapped in her mind for the better part of a year".
As I said, not likely. This means Harry and Dumbledore have a distinct advantage in being able to use Ginny as an asset and an insight into Voldemort, without him being aware she is one, which would place her in much less danger if they can keep her past connection to him a secret.
And were I going out on a limb, I might even suggest if Harry and Dumbledore wanted to really search Ginny's inner recollections of Voldemort, they might look for some magical method which would allow them to see directly into Ginny's thoughts and memories... but I can't imagine what kind of item they could possibly use to do that.
{=^P
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Madame Librarian - Apr 1, 2005 5:54 am (#185 of 1448)
What if Harry and DD are not looking at something in the past, but something in the future?
We always talk about how the Pensieve helps one sort out and review memories, but origianlly doesn't DD explain it as a means to remove thoughts in order to analyze them carefully or just to clear the mind of excess stuff?
Well, what if DD or Harry has been pondering battles to come and are trying to figure out which scenario is likely. Will Voldemort terrorize the whole Wizarding society with large and violent attacks; will he fight a guerilla (sp?) war with skirmishes at random times and places; will he broaden the battle to include Muggles; will he be even more devious by just attacking a few crucial places and people at the core of the story? So DD yanks out those possibilities for study. That's what he and Harry are seeing...maybe.
"Here, Harry, I've assembled some ways that Voldemort could attack us...or rather you. You see, my boy, if he successfully gets to you and forces you to battle him without my help and the support of your friends, his chances of winning, of surviving, are much, much greater. It could happen like this...."
Just a bit of dialogue that I've imagined to explain the cover drawing.
Ciao. Barb
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Suspero - Apr 1, 2005 8:19 am (#186 of 1448)
Professor
I am really enjoying thinking about the upcoming HP6:theHBP and about speculating on what might be in it.
This is my first post, so please forgive me if it's kind of long.
The cover artwork really intrigues me -- the US version with Harry and Dumbledore side-by-side, Harry's wand in his left hand in a gesture that doesn't appear flourishing, and Dumbledore waving his right hand, both wide-eyed in a helix of green vapor -- intriguing to say the least. The UK version with Dumbledore and Harry apparently in battle in a ring of fire! And that UK photo version of the Potions book is even more fascinating.
I have my theories based on JK Rowling's "clues" over the past years. One thing she has stressed is that there were things that Harry learned by being in the Chamber of Secrets. What I learned is this: There was a disagreement in "the very beginning" of Hogwarts between Slytherin and Gryffindor. It was the Sorting Hat and Gryffindor's sword that Harry received in the chamber. I'm wondering if Gryffindor is/was the Half Blood Prince, a half-blood himself or the champion of half-bloods? I also wonder if that ancient feud is the "window" through which Voldemort has invaded the wizarding world and if family bonds and loyalties and courage aren't the real weapons against him.
The other things that strike me are that JK Rowling is a very visual person, so I wonder if the color green means something? Harry has green eyes and he has his mother's eyes, and green shows up constantly in Harry's encounters with the Death Eaters, Voldemort, etc., and the green of the HP6 US cover intrigues me. Fire, too -- the constant metaphors of the Phoenix and the very real involvement of Fawkes the Phoenix -- I keep ruminating on that one.
Lastly -- Potions. Potions certainly seems to be an important topic. I read somewhere that Lily Evans was really good at Potions and that such a fact was important, perhaps even key to the whole story. Hermione is obviously grand at Potions, too. And it would seem that Harry is going to need tutoring in Advanced Potions as well as Occlumency, based on remarks in HP5. And, as always, I am very interested in what will happen next with dear Prof. Severus Snape...
It certainly pays to think visually and to keep up with unravelled threads in these HP books. And it also seems to be important to know classical mythology and literature as well as Latin. Very intellectually stimulating as well as a heck of a lot of fun!
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bella - Apr 1, 2005 9:43 am (#187 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I think the facial characteristics of the three bottom figures point directly to Ron, Hermione, and Ginny. (This isn't to say that it won't be anyone else though). The fact that the three of them are all looking up presumably at the dark mark( it could be an entirely differenct scene which the mark plays a central part) gives the three a sense of cohesiveness suggesting that they are all in the same time and the same place. The group may not be split to seperate Ginny, but to emphasize the closeness of Ron and Hermione.
Responding to previous posts about Harry's inner circle and the reason Neville and Luna aren't there, could be because the events taking place are happening before the start of school.
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Her-melanie - Apr 1, 2005 11:17 am (#188 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Suspero, Lily was good at Charms, which we find out from Mr. Ollivander when Harry gets his wand. You will definitely have fun on the Lexicon, judging from your post.
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 1, 2005 11:25 am (#189 of 1448)
I was considering what the stand up poster could mean. I think that the couple under the dark mark is Ron and Hermione. I think the other is Ginny, just because she can help Harry a lot. Her role in the OotP grew a lot and I think she'll become more of a trusted friend. Therefore her role is important. It could be Lily too. I just like the idea of it being Ginny.
I have a half-brewed idea that I'd like to propose. I suggested at one time that James Potter could be the HBP. Sirius mentioned to Harry that whatever James was, he always hated the dark side of magic. This was when Harry was talking to Sirius and Remus in Umbridge's fire. We know nothing else about Harry's family. What if that is because Harry's great uncle was Grindewald?
I don't think James' father would be Grindewald since Sirius said that James family let him stay with them over the holidays after he left home. That doesn't sound like a bad person to me.
This idea would explain why nobody talks about Harry's family to him. It would also explain why James hates the dark arts so much. It would be natural for James and Sirius to become friends since they both hated the "Slytherin fanatic" elements of their families. This would also fit the choices theme of the books that was discussed heavily in CoS.
I got this idea from someone saying that Harry and Dumbledore could be looking at Harry's family history. Dumbledore could be showing Harry about James, Lily, and any other "skeletons" that the family has in their closet. Any thoughts anyone?
Also, did anyone else notice that the poster was dated 3-27-05. The poster also says "Who is the half-blood Prince? Find out in 50 days." Does that mean there is a pre-release teaser of who the HBP is on May 21st? Hmmmm..........
Betelgeuse
Edited a punctuation error
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scoop2172000 - Apr 1, 2005 12:07 pm (#190 of 1448)
I don't think James could have been the Half-Blood Prince, because if he had been, then Harry, his sole heir (and a first-born male) would also be a prince.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 1, 2005 1:54 pm (#191 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Not according to JKR scoop2172000
Mikie
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 1, 2005 2:18 pm (#192 of 1448)
MickeyCee3948 - "Not according to JKR scoop2172000"
I don't understand why you say this. Is it the "pampered little prince" comment that has been thoroughly discussed?
Betelgeuse
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 1, 2005 3:00 pm (#193 of 1448)
The actual stand-up doesn't give the date 3/27/05. That date is something which was probably added digitally to denote the day the artwork was released. The stand-up itself says "Who is the Half Blood Prince? Find out in 50 days... July 16, 2005".
According to Mugglenet, the stand-ups aren't due to be released to the general public for use in stores until May 27th, which coincidentally enough is 50 days before the release of the book... so I would imagine the fifty days they're referring to officially begins ticking down on May 27th.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 1, 2005 10:46 pm (#194 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
James could not be the half blood prince because that would make Harry a prince and JKR has specifically stated that Tom and Harry were not the HBP.
Mikie
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 1, 2005 11:49 pm (#195 of 1448)
As much as I think it's probably not James Potter, the fact Harry isn't the HBP doesn't preclude the idea James could be since James Potter being the Half Blood Prince would specifically preclude Harry Potter from holding the title.
To give you a real life example, while their titles are "HRH Prince William of Wales" and "HRH Prince Harry of Wales", anyone who follows the monarchy can quickly tell you neither Prince William nor Prince Harry are the Prince of Wales. That title and honor falls to their father, "HRH Charles, Prince of Wales".
I know especially in America such distinctions seem very fine, but I assure you they make all the difference in the world when considering royal lineage. So it's entirely possible for James to be the HBP referred to even though we know Harry himself is not, since having only one person hold a royal title at any one time is at the heart of the noble system functioning.
In any case, even though James is dead, Harry Potter is not yet of age, so his formal title could be held from him until such time as he is... which doesn't occur until after the events in HBP take place.
Like I said, I don't think there's any evidence James Potter would be the HBP... but Harry not being the HBP doesn't limit the possibility he might be.
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Luanee - Apr 2, 2005 12:16 am (#196 of 1448)
Does anyone recall the Pensieve to have such a long, stony pillar as a stand? I thought it was just a stand-alone 'basin'-like equipment. But from the picture, the top 'basin' portion and the stand seem to be joined together... I was thinking it may not be the Pensieve after all...
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Ff3girl - Apr 2, 2005 1:07 am (#197 of 1448)
That's funny, because my sister saw the cover first and then described it to me as a pensieve. When I saw it, my first thought was "That's not a pensieve!" Of course, we haven't read the book yet.... wah! I just have to keep reminding myself day after day... only 50 more days. Only 50 more days. Someday, I hope we may reach day 49. *sigh*
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mike miller - Apr 2, 2005 6:53 am (#198 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Welcome Suspero! Glad to have you join us.
Andrew - A nice string of posts you've put together, take 20 points. I had not really thought about the Advanced Potion Making book belonging to Remus. I'll have to give that some thought. As to the book standee, I agree that shows Ron, Hermione and Ginny. Ginny may very well be a valuable unknown weapon in defeating LV. However, I'm not sure I buy into the James is the HBP. I will defer to your understanding of royal lineage, but I don't think Grindewald is anywhere in Harry's family tree. I interesting idea though.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 2, 2005 7:34 am (#199 of 1448)
Mickey Cee, I had stated I don't think -- not do think -- James could have been the Half-Blood Prince.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 2, 2005 8:09 am (#200 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Sorry scoop2172000 reread your post and realize I had misread. That has been happening alot laterly, dang it.
Mikie
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Mar 30, 2005 1:46 pm
I don't think that Harry and Dumbledore are necessarily looking at that scene in the pensieve. Most of the other book covers have shown things that we wouldn't necessarily have seen together.
On the Scholastic dust jacket for POA, for instance, we see Harry and Hermoine on Buckbeak, with Sirius through the window, but we also see a cat, a rat, a wolf (or is it a dog?), four dementors, the Whomping Willow, a crescent moon and a white stag. There is no point in the book where all these things appear together - putting them in one illustration is a form of artistic license.
So the question is, how many different scenes does this exciting new artwork show?
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GryffEndora - Mar 30, 2005 3:09 pm (#152 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Mooncalf - So the question is, how many different scenes does this exciting new art work show?
Great point Mooncalf!!! There could definately be several elements going on here. Even OotP had several different events on the cover.
What if the town isn't London but Hogsmeade? An attack near the school? The Dark Mark in Hogsmeade? Perhaps at the 3 Broomsticks or The Hogs Head? Do you think anyone would go after Aberforth to get to Albus?
Now I think I'm rambling... still very excited with new images and can't wait to hear everyone's input!
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KWeldon - Mar 30, 2005 4:50 pm (#153 of 1448)
I agree with Mooncalf, and I'm betting that we are going to see the Dark Mark again.
My impression of the cover as a whole is that Ron, Hermione, and Ginny(?) are not being looked at by Harry and DD in the Pensieve, but that whatever Harry and DD see in the Pensieve is going to affect them, indirectly or not.
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Joshua Little - Mar 30, 2005 5:30 pm (#154 of 1448)
I would be inclined to think that the HBP is a entirely new person we haven't seen yet though might have heard of or been hinted at but if I have to throw my money in with someone already in the books i am gunna go with Snape to be Half-Blood Prince. He seems like a good candidate and with a potion book for a cover it seems more likely he is important. He is the be all and end all for potions at Hogwarts.
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mooncalf - Mar 30, 2005 5:45 pm (#155 of 1448)
Like you, Joshua, I assume that the HBP is someone we haven't met yet.
KWeldon, I would agree; I don't think that Harry and Dumbledore are looking at the other folks in the picture. But It does look as though Ron, Hermoine and Ginny (?) are looking at the dark mark.
And like GryffEndora, I think that the skyline looks more like a village than a city. It could be anywhere - Hogsmeade, Ottery St. Catchpole, Spinner's End, Godric's Hollow. It gives me chills to think bout it!
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Madam Pince - Mar 30, 2005 6:25 pm (#156 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
****jumps in the bandwagon with KWeldon, Mooncalf, and Joshua****
I also think that the new artwork is more of a collection of scenes, rather than a single scene of Harry and Dumbledore looking down at the three new faces looking up. A "collection" would be more typical of Mary GrandPre's style, as Mooncalf pointed out.
And I also think that the HBP is someone we haven't heard of yet, unless he's someone that was barely mentioned in passing in COS, and is therefore the "important clue" that JKR has made reference to.
I'll bet the Dark Mark appears over Hogsmeade -- just a hunch, but there it is! I don't know how I could say that the skyline doesn't look like London to me, because I've never actually seen London's skyline, but I'm thinking it's more like Hogsmeade.
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KWeldon - Mar 30, 2005 7:04 pm (#157 of 1448)
For that matter, the skyline may not even reflect a particular place, but essentially represent Great Britain in general.
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haymoni - Mar 30, 2005 8:11 pm (#158 of 1448)
How big (the length measurement) is this book???
Are we looking at the "real" front cover or is this some combo of the front and back covers?
Or is it something else created just for this 50 day thing?
First glance, I see Ron, Hermione & Ginny - I agree that the "Ginny" is very similar to the cover of COS.
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septentrion - Mar 31, 2005 1:24 am (#159 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
About the girl on the right, my first thought was Lily because the description fits and because she's isolated. It could mean we're going to learn something really significant about her. On the other hand, why not Ginny ? Ginny played a particular part in CoS, the book in which the plot for HBP was supposed to take place first. All of this to say I'm confused about her identity.
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dizzy lizzy - Mar 31, 2005 1:50 am (#160 of 1448)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
haymoni: I interpreted the Leaky article as saying this new picture had been created as a seperate advertising vehicle. Book marks, posters, big cards etc probably.
You may well be right is suggesting that the front and back covers a merged just a tad. I don't think we've seen the last of the cover art yet.
Lizzy
EDIT: I'm leaning 50-50 between Ginny and Lily. Hard to say who the artisit intended it to be.
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Verschwinden Sie - Mar 31, 2005 3:23 am (#161 of 1448)
Well, it's been quite a while since last I was here, and forever and a day since I was here on a consistent basis. I'll spare you the details, but for the moment I'm back.
Thank God I'm not the only one who went "Well, that's a pensieve... but I'll be snookered if it's not sitting on top of the Pillar of Storge"...
According to the editor of the books (whose name could be revealing) I think maybe we should look at all the covers to see if they give us a larger idea about the book since we are told each cover is a distillation of a specific part of the book.
Thinking of the cover of the UK Adult Edition, though, I have looked at "the stain". My first thought is, oddly enough, not to overanalyze it and say it's not initials, but rather just an ink stain. When was I ever one to discard something so easily, though? Come on, man... I looked at over a hundred names just to figure out that Theodore Nott was the only one which occurred in those cracker riddles. I obviously like a good mental exercise.
My second impression is if they are writing, they say something more than is left behind, because there is what looks to me like a large water stain on label at the top of the book on which the initials are written. Being one of probably three people in the world under the age of seventy five who absolutely insists on using a fountain pen for all his writing, I can tell you from long experience that water splashing on ink from a proper pen and not, for instance, one of those abominable Bics, produces a stain VERY MUCH like the water stain on that label, so I would guess from the nature of the staining and other things (there are actually small dots of ink around the letters in question which have water staining in between them and which are suggestive of continuations of the writing), we are looking at pieces of larger letters which have largely been blotted out. All that said, it would be my guess were this the case the second letter is actually part of an H.
On from that and assuming the letters are actually complete, it could simply be an homage to the editor of the book, Arthur Levine... and if it is, I would say it's long overdue since Mr. Levine is probably the second most responsible person for the direction of the Harry Potter story, next to J.K. Rowling herself.
Or, if we're going for A.L. as the initials of a character, I might suggest due to the age of the book, it could be short for "Alice Longbottom". We do have precedence for Neville re-using his parents' wizarding supplies, and we have an example in "Order of the Phoenix" which clearly points to him holding everything of his mother's dear. They do say at the end of OotP Neville does well in potions once Snape is out of the way, and considering both his attachment to his parents and the level of anger he feels over their fates, I can imagine with his newly developing confidence he would tolerate Snape in order to follow in their footsteps and become an auror. There would have to be something very satisfying to being able to exact justice on those responsible for destroying both his and his parents' lives.
And of course, it could just as easily be a blurry NL in that case (or A.L. for Algie Longbottom, too).
Were I a betting man and the last initial was an L, though, I would probably bet the initials in question aren't A.L. In considering, I would probably take the following into account:
1) The book itself is very tattered and reminiscent of the type of property one would own if he or she didn't have money or the resources to purchase new property or take care of it properly.
2) The table it sits on is also shabby and reminiscent of those conditions.
3) The name of the author, when distilled out, means "drink [beverage] to heal the heart".
4) We have been given a specific clue, in an obvious way most of us couldn't help but noticing because it stood out like a sore thumb, about someone who suffers from an illness which plagues their heart.
5) We have been given a specific clue about a character (and only one character, believe it or not) who would specifically own shabby property of this type as a result of this affliction.
6) We have been given a specific character with a need for advanced potion to ease this affliction.
7) That borage is, and has traditionally been, mistaken for a plant in the Lycopsis family.
That it is so mistaken due to the fur-like hair on it, which is where the possible origin of the name Borage comes from. 9) That in one of the native dialects of the British Isles (Celtic), the name Borage could very possibly descend from a word meaning "a man of great courage".
10) That we have been given a specific character who fits all the above criteria; and that
11) His initials just happen to greatly resemble A.L....
Needless to say, I would guess the marks in question, were they actually initials and not just random spots of ink and were the complete initials, aren't A.L. but rather R.L.
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Archangel - Mar 31, 2005 4:57 am (#162 of 1448)
Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- Semisonic
New artwork... hip hip hooray!
My take on the whole picture -- What happened before is now happening again. I'm basing this on the outlines for the two sides; they seem to be mirror images. The past is represented by Lily and the present/near future represented by Hermione and Ron.
Dumbledore and Harry are in the thrust in middle as the use the Pensieve sifting through memories, trying to find the connection that they might have missed before.
The Death Mark is situated in Ron & Hermione's side and seems to be swirling. So, what goes around, comes around...
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 6:00 am (#163 of 1448)
Yesterday, I had been willing to bet the girl on the right was Ginny. But having read subsequent posts, I'm willing to concede that maybe the girl is a young Lily. After all, aren't we supposed to learn something big about Lily in Book 6?
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Snuffles - Mar 31, 2005 6:04 am (#164 of 1448)
Olivia
Just a thought, but if Harry and DD are looking into a pensieve could the 3 people be James and Lily on the left and Petunia on the right? Pet seems to know more about the wizarding world than she lets on!
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GryffEndora - Mar 31, 2005 10:23 am (#165 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Snuffles - Petunia is blond, so I don't think it could be her, since the girl on the right is clearly (to me) a red head.
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Eponine - Mar 31, 2005 11:01 am (#166 of 1448)
Okay, here are links to previous drawings by Mary Grand Pre of Ginny and Lily.
Lily
Ginny
mystery girl
In comparing her previous renditions of Ginny and Lily, the new picture seems to be an older Ginny in comparison to the back cover of CoS.
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KWeldon - Mar 31, 2005 11:23 am (#167 of 1448)
I would guess the marks in question, were they actually initials and not just random spots of ink and were the complete initials, aren't A.L. but rather R.L.
Andrew, while I may not buy all of your reasoning for this, I am seriously hoping that you are right.
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MickeyCee3948 - Mar 31, 2005 11:28 am (#168 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Andrew very well thought out post and makes alot of sense. Good Catch Old Man.
Mikie
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 12:03 pm (#169 of 1448)
Eponine:
Thanks for giving us the links to the three drawings. After reviewing them, I think you're right: it is an older Ginny. The button nose seems to be the same, as is the longer hair style.
So, I've vacilated yet again: could it be Ginny (first bet), could it be a young Lily (second thought based on other readers' posts). I'm back to Ginny being the girl on the right.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Mar 31, 2005 12:36 pm (#170 of 1448)
If the three are in fact Ginny, Ron, and Hermione, then this raises the question where is Neville? The absence of Luna could be explained by the fact she is a different house and might not be present if it occurs during a time when the Gryffindors are in class.
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Her-melanie - Mar 31, 2005 1:05 pm (#171 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I really think based on the appearance it could be either. What makes me think it is young Lily the most is the haziness or smudginess of the drawing; it is not as solid (or clothed!) as Ron/Hermione. Also, the fact that they're separated. It just feels to me like two different areas separated by the pillar. I feel like if it were Ginny (which it still could be) she would be with Ron and Hermione. Also, I'm pretty sure Lily will be important in the book, so it would make sense to include her on the cover. For all we know, both Lily and James could have left a pensieve behind containing their own memories for their son to experience. Maybe that's what DD and Harry are looking at!
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 1:05 pm (#172 of 1448)
I don't see Neville (or Luna) being on the same level as Ginny.
Ginny has become part of the Harry-Hermione-Ron inner circle by virtue of having separate friendships with the first two and siblinghood with the third.
Neville, though he has become a friend, isn't a confidant, nor is Luna.
Put it another way: Harry likes Neville and Luna, but he doesn't love them. Ginny is another matter -- and I'm not talking 'ship here, though for the record, I am a Harry/Ginny 'shipper. I'm talking about the love Harry holds for members of the Weasley family. O.K., Percy doesn't count, and Harry doesn't know Charlie and Bill all that well. But the rest of the Weasleys are family to him.
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Steve Newton - Mar 31, 2005 1:27 pm (#173 of 1448)
Librarian
As TomProffitt put it several months ago, Harry's inner circle, core group, are the ones who ride to Hogwarts with him. So far this includes, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Luna and Neville. And Lupin. The students just happen to be the ones who went to the Department of Mysteries.
In SS Harry and Ron decide that fighting a troll together makes one a friend. (I wish I could remember the exact quote.)
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scoop2172000 - Mar 31, 2005 2:00 pm (#174 of 1448)
Steve, I can't recall the quote either, and I don't have the book handy -- but I remember that Harry and Ron decided to be friends with Hermione because of the troll incident
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Grindylow - Mar 31, 2005 2:52 pm (#175 of 1448)
"But from that moment on, Hermione Granger became their friend. There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them."
Sorcerer's Stone Chapter 10 page 179 (paperback)
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Steve Newton - Mar 31, 2005 2:59 pm (#176 of 1448)
Librarian
Gracias!
I think that fighting the baddest bad guys of them all would also qualify.
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GryffEndora - Mar 31, 2005 3:19 pm (#177 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Nice connections about the ever expanding inner circle of Harry's friends. I liked the connection between who Harry rides to school with and who he fights evil with. Not to mention that overcoming obstacles together seems to form strong friendships.
As to the "mystery girl", after comparing the images, I lean toward Ginny because of the round face where Lily seems to have an oval or heart shaped face, definately longer vertically than Ginny's who seems to have a shorter rounder face. I hope that makes some sense.
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green shoes - Mar 31, 2005 4:14 pm (#178 of 1448)
"DON'T PANIC."
Hey all, my first thought was that the mystery girl on the cover is Ginny W. but now that I have looked the three drawings more (thanks to whomever posted those) I think it is Lilly. Someone said that the drawing is more smudged, ghost like, I think. The mystery girl has an ethereal quality to her, she is less solid and stable than Hermione and Ron...I'm so terribly excited...
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So Sirius - Mar 31, 2005 5:17 pm (#179 of 1448)
I was looking at the picture again and perhaps it's none of the kids we know, yet other Hogwarts students or random kids that have no bearing on the story, other than the fact that they're in danger from the death eaters and perhaps as I originally suggested, Harry and Dumbledore are seeing this happen from a distance away, not through a pensieve, but a device that allows for this.
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KWeldon - Mar 31, 2005 8:58 pm (#180 of 1448)
I wonder if the fact that R/H and mystery girl are looking in the same direction suggests that they are contemporaries, indicating that mystery girl is not Lily? That is, what about the book's plot would have Lily looking in the same direction as R/H are? If I had been the artist and I wanted to draw Lily, I might have her "smudged" looking, but I would have her face front or just to the side. Why draw Lily looking up?
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Amilia Smith - Mar 31, 2005 10:00 pm (#181 of 1448)
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that we have a dark mark floating above Ron and Hermione? I am now officially worried.
Mills.
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Jo S - Mar 31, 2005 11:15 pm (#182 of 1448)
I think that the people down the bottom (looking up at the dark mark) are from one drawing, whilst obviously Harry and Ddore are another drawing. If you remove teh pillar from the middle and push them together, it could be one picture of people looking up at th dark mark. I think that it is ron, hermione and ginny. If it were 1 picture then lily would be out of place.im guessing that the dark mark will turn up at the burrow.more on this theory later... sorry about my typing, im holding my 4 month old daughter at the same time
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The Artful Dodger - Apr 1, 2005 2:39 am (#183 of 1448)
Has anyone else but me tried to find out the right person's eye colour? They look green to me (a very greyish-brownish sort of green, but still), so the person could indeed be Lily.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 1, 2005 4:59 am (#184 of 1448)
Having looked at a very large, high-res scan of the stand-up in question, I don't think the "mystery girl" on the right hand side actually has the irises of her eyes colored. It looks to me like the only thing there as far as eye detail is a basic outline to suggest the eyes are there, and that any color is due to the pervasive green mist, which is casting a pall over the people in it.
I also think the three characters at the bottom are probably Ron, Hermione, and Ginny... if for no other reason than it makes sense those three would be together and near Harry and Dumbledore, and it doesn't really make any sense to corporeally represent Lily Potter when J.K. Rowling has said she won't appear that way in the series, especially in light of the fact Voldemort is only represented by the ethereal Dark Mark (which would be in line with the suggestions made by J.K. Rowling that he won't be a significant physical presence in this book).
I am, however, intrigued by the prominence placed on Dumbledore and Harry both looking into the pensieve (if that's what it is) at the same time, because it suggests memories of the past are going to be important to their battle... just as I am intrigued by the placement of the three ancillary characters (I'm just going to call them Ron, Hermione, and Ginny). I think, in light of the fact Mary GrandPre has read the book and probably drawn much of her inspiration for the cover from it, it's probably telling that both Ron and Hermione fall under the shadow of the Dark Mark, but Ginny is set apart from them and does not.
However, I think it makes logical sense they do so. Unlike my theory we're probably reading too much into the "initials" on the Advanced Potions book, I would bet there's some foreshadowing going on in suggesting those three characters are prominent and two of them are in direct danger. Voldemort is well aware of Hermione and Ron's importance to Harry, so they would be logical targets to strike at should he want to hurt Harry, demoralize him, or provoke him into an aggressive and uncalculated move. Harry's certainly proven (especially lately) he has a tendency to want to leap before thinking matters through all the way when his blood is up... and which two people generally provide a stabilizing counterpoint and force Harry to settle down and not go popping off doing anything rash, or at least to take back up with him if he insists on going through with something less than wise?
Ginny, on the other hand, can play a very vital role because she's actually spent a significant amount of time mind to mind with Voldemort (or at least some form of him) and therefore knows how he thinks, but Voldemort himself DOES NOT KNOW THIS. After all, I think it's highly unlikely Lucius Malfoy ever got around to saying:
"While I'm thinking of it, rather than coming and seeing if you were alive and helping you, I decided to just give you up for dead, make another copy, and let HIM have all your power and glory. As it turned out, he and Harry got into a fight just like the prophecy said you guys would and one of you DID end up dying, just like it said, but...ummmm... Harry killed you, in case you were wondering how the battle might go. Anywyay I only mention it because, due to my actions, there's a slight chance a little girl out there knows exactly how you think because a significant chunk of you was trapped in her mind for the better part of a year".
As I said, not likely. This means Harry and Dumbledore have a distinct advantage in being able to use Ginny as an asset and an insight into Voldemort, without him being aware she is one, which would place her in much less danger if they can keep her past connection to him a secret.
And were I going out on a limb, I might even suggest if Harry and Dumbledore wanted to really search Ginny's inner recollections of Voldemort, they might look for some magical method which would allow them to see directly into Ginny's thoughts and memories... but I can't imagine what kind of item they could possibly use to do that.
{=^P
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Madame Librarian - Apr 1, 2005 5:54 am (#185 of 1448)
What if Harry and DD are not looking at something in the past, but something in the future?
We always talk about how the Pensieve helps one sort out and review memories, but origianlly doesn't DD explain it as a means to remove thoughts in order to analyze them carefully or just to clear the mind of excess stuff?
Well, what if DD or Harry has been pondering battles to come and are trying to figure out which scenario is likely. Will Voldemort terrorize the whole Wizarding society with large and violent attacks; will he fight a guerilla (sp?) war with skirmishes at random times and places; will he broaden the battle to include Muggles; will he be even more devious by just attacking a few crucial places and people at the core of the story? So DD yanks out those possibilities for study. That's what he and Harry are seeing...maybe.
"Here, Harry, I've assembled some ways that Voldemort could attack us...or rather you. You see, my boy, if he successfully gets to you and forces you to battle him without my help and the support of your friends, his chances of winning, of surviving, are much, much greater. It could happen like this...."
Just a bit of dialogue that I've imagined to explain the cover drawing.
Ciao. Barb
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Suspero - Apr 1, 2005 8:19 am (#186 of 1448)
Professor
I am really enjoying thinking about the upcoming HP6:theHBP and about speculating on what might be in it.
This is my first post, so please forgive me if it's kind of long.
The cover artwork really intrigues me -- the US version with Harry and Dumbledore side-by-side, Harry's wand in his left hand in a gesture that doesn't appear flourishing, and Dumbledore waving his right hand, both wide-eyed in a helix of green vapor -- intriguing to say the least. The UK version with Dumbledore and Harry apparently in battle in a ring of fire! And that UK photo version of the Potions book is even more fascinating.
I have my theories based on JK Rowling's "clues" over the past years. One thing she has stressed is that there were things that Harry learned by being in the Chamber of Secrets. What I learned is this: There was a disagreement in "the very beginning" of Hogwarts between Slytherin and Gryffindor. It was the Sorting Hat and Gryffindor's sword that Harry received in the chamber. I'm wondering if Gryffindor is/was the Half Blood Prince, a half-blood himself or the champion of half-bloods? I also wonder if that ancient feud is the "window" through which Voldemort has invaded the wizarding world and if family bonds and loyalties and courage aren't the real weapons against him.
The other things that strike me are that JK Rowling is a very visual person, so I wonder if the color green means something? Harry has green eyes and he has his mother's eyes, and green shows up constantly in Harry's encounters with the Death Eaters, Voldemort, etc., and the green of the HP6 US cover intrigues me. Fire, too -- the constant metaphors of the Phoenix and the very real involvement of Fawkes the Phoenix -- I keep ruminating on that one.
Lastly -- Potions. Potions certainly seems to be an important topic. I read somewhere that Lily Evans was really good at Potions and that such a fact was important, perhaps even key to the whole story. Hermione is obviously grand at Potions, too. And it would seem that Harry is going to need tutoring in Advanced Potions as well as Occlumency, based on remarks in HP5. And, as always, I am very interested in what will happen next with dear Prof. Severus Snape...
It certainly pays to think visually and to keep up with unravelled threads in these HP books. And it also seems to be important to know classical mythology and literature as well as Latin. Very intellectually stimulating as well as a heck of a lot of fun!
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bella - Apr 1, 2005 9:43 am (#187 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I think the facial characteristics of the three bottom figures point directly to Ron, Hermione, and Ginny. (This isn't to say that it won't be anyone else though). The fact that the three of them are all looking up presumably at the dark mark( it could be an entirely differenct scene which the mark plays a central part) gives the three a sense of cohesiveness suggesting that they are all in the same time and the same place. The group may not be split to seperate Ginny, but to emphasize the closeness of Ron and Hermione.
Responding to previous posts about Harry's inner circle and the reason Neville and Luna aren't there, could be because the events taking place are happening before the start of school.
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Her-melanie - Apr 1, 2005 11:17 am (#188 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
Suspero, Lily was good at Charms, which we find out from Mr. Ollivander when Harry gets his wand. You will definitely have fun on the Lexicon, judging from your post.
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 1, 2005 11:25 am (#189 of 1448)
I was considering what the stand up poster could mean. I think that the couple under the dark mark is Ron and Hermione. I think the other is Ginny, just because she can help Harry a lot. Her role in the OotP grew a lot and I think she'll become more of a trusted friend. Therefore her role is important. It could be Lily too. I just like the idea of it being Ginny.
I have a half-brewed idea that I'd like to propose. I suggested at one time that James Potter could be the HBP. Sirius mentioned to Harry that whatever James was, he always hated the dark side of magic. This was when Harry was talking to Sirius and Remus in Umbridge's fire. We know nothing else about Harry's family. What if that is because Harry's great uncle was Grindewald?
I don't think James' father would be Grindewald since Sirius said that James family let him stay with them over the holidays after he left home. That doesn't sound like a bad person to me.
This idea would explain why nobody talks about Harry's family to him. It would also explain why James hates the dark arts so much. It would be natural for James and Sirius to become friends since they both hated the "Slytherin fanatic" elements of their families. This would also fit the choices theme of the books that was discussed heavily in CoS.
I got this idea from someone saying that Harry and Dumbledore could be looking at Harry's family history. Dumbledore could be showing Harry about James, Lily, and any other "skeletons" that the family has in their closet. Any thoughts anyone?
Also, did anyone else notice that the poster was dated 3-27-05. The poster also says "Who is the half-blood Prince? Find out in 50 days." Does that mean there is a pre-release teaser of who the HBP is on May 21st? Hmmmm..........
Betelgeuse
Edited a punctuation error
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scoop2172000 - Apr 1, 2005 12:07 pm (#190 of 1448)
I don't think James could have been the Half-Blood Prince, because if he had been, then Harry, his sole heir (and a first-born male) would also be a prince.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 1, 2005 1:54 pm (#191 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Not according to JKR scoop2172000
Mikie
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 1, 2005 2:18 pm (#192 of 1448)
MickeyCee3948 - "Not according to JKR scoop2172000"
I don't understand why you say this. Is it the "pampered little prince" comment that has been thoroughly discussed?
Betelgeuse
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 1, 2005 3:00 pm (#193 of 1448)
The actual stand-up doesn't give the date 3/27/05. That date is something which was probably added digitally to denote the day the artwork was released. The stand-up itself says "Who is the Half Blood Prince? Find out in 50 days... July 16, 2005".
According to Mugglenet, the stand-ups aren't due to be released to the general public for use in stores until May 27th, which coincidentally enough is 50 days before the release of the book... so I would imagine the fifty days they're referring to officially begins ticking down on May 27th.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 1, 2005 10:46 pm (#194 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
James could not be the half blood prince because that would make Harry a prince and JKR has specifically stated that Tom and Harry were not the HBP.
Mikie
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 1, 2005 11:49 pm (#195 of 1448)
As much as I think it's probably not James Potter, the fact Harry isn't the HBP doesn't preclude the idea James could be since James Potter being the Half Blood Prince would specifically preclude Harry Potter from holding the title.
To give you a real life example, while their titles are "HRH Prince William of Wales" and "HRH Prince Harry of Wales", anyone who follows the monarchy can quickly tell you neither Prince William nor Prince Harry are the Prince of Wales. That title and honor falls to their father, "HRH Charles, Prince of Wales".
I know especially in America such distinctions seem very fine, but I assure you they make all the difference in the world when considering royal lineage. So it's entirely possible for James to be the HBP referred to even though we know Harry himself is not, since having only one person hold a royal title at any one time is at the heart of the noble system functioning.
In any case, even though James is dead, Harry Potter is not yet of age, so his formal title could be held from him until such time as he is... which doesn't occur until after the events in HBP take place.
Like I said, I don't think there's any evidence James Potter would be the HBP... but Harry not being the HBP doesn't limit the possibility he might be.
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Luanee - Apr 2, 2005 12:16 am (#196 of 1448)
Does anyone recall the Pensieve to have such a long, stony pillar as a stand? I thought it was just a stand-alone 'basin'-like equipment. But from the picture, the top 'basin' portion and the stand seem to be joined together... I was thinking it may not be the Pensieve after all...
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Ff3girl - Apr 2, 2005 1:07 am (#197 of 1448)
That's funny, because my sister saw the cover first and then described it to me as a pensieve. When I saw it, my first thought was "That's not a pensieve!" Of course, we haven't read the book yet.... wah! I just have to keep reminding myself day after day... only 50 more days. Only 50 more days. Someday, I hope we may reach day 49. *sigh*
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mike miller - Apr 2, 2005 6:53 am (#198 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Welcome Suspero! Glad to have you join us.
Andrew - A nice string of posts you've put together, take 20 points. I had not really thought about the Advanced Potion Making book belonging to Remus. I'll have to give that some thought. As to the book standee, I agree that shows Ron, Hermione and Ginny. Ginny may very well be a valuable unknown weapon in defeating LV. However, I'm not sure I buy into the James is the HBP. I will defer to your understanding of royal lineage, but I don't think Grindewald is anywhere in Harry's family tree. I interesting idea though.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 2, 2005 7:34 am (#199 of 1448)
Mickey Cee, I had stated I don't think -- not do think -- James could have been the Half-Blood Prince.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 2, 2005 8:09 am (#200 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Sorry scoop2172000 reread your post and realize I had misread. That has been happening alot laterly, dang it.
Mikie
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 201 to 250)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:20 am
Suspero - Apr 2, 2005 8:13 am (#201 of 1448)
Professor
Thanks Her-Melanie for the correction -- Charms! Didn't Dumbledore claim that the protection on Harry was his cleverest invention? So I'm hoping that we find out who did what. Kind of looks like HP6:tHBP is going to be a "the truth is revealed at last" tome, eh? Sets us up for book 7 to be the final confrontations, etc. I won't mention any other sagas and series, but that seems almost SOP (standard operating procedure) for an epic, doesn't it?
Charms and Potions... green and fire... I'm still ruminating. If James Potter was the HBP wouldn't Snape (excuse me, Prof. Snape) and some of the others have spoken to him differently? Seems like some sneering reference would've surfaced by now in 5 books. And, wouldn't it surface in how the Death Eaters and Lucius Malfoy pursued Harry? They sometimes act as if Harry was incidental, a surprise wild card, and I can't picture them acting that way if James Potter was the HBP. Hagrid being HBP would be a shockeroo revelation of some kind and seems mighty tangential to ye olde storie. My vote at the moment is Gryffindor or else a character in CoS that I should've paid more attention to.
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Her-melanie - Apr 2, 2005 10:08 am (#202 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
No problem, Suspero...actually, even though I still think the cover shows a pensieve, it does also look like it could be a potion of sorts. Perhaps there's some kind of potion you can specially make in a pensieve to see things other than your own memories. It also made me wonder, if it is some kind of potion, is Dumbledore teaching Harry advanced potions? I can't help thinking Potions is going to be important in HBP, as is Snape. I agree that if James is the HBP it should've shown up by now, BUT I also think in real life, Harry would know more about his parents at this point than he seems to. Wouldn't you try to find out all you could about your parents from DD, Sirius, and Lupin? I would.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 2, 2005 11:50 am (#203 of 1448)
Well, actually I hadn't ever suggested Grindewald could be one of Harry's relatives. In fact, unless J.K. Rowling specifically says he is, I don't really see any reason to drag such a minor character into the situation since he was pretty well only mentioned in passing because J.K. Rowling needed some significant sounding filler to throw around Nicholas Flamel in order to make him less obvious, and maybe establish Dumbledore had done this sort of thing before.
Other than that, every time I start to seriously speculate about what or who a character might be before J.K. Rowling actually gets around to telling us, I immediately take a break and go meditate. My mantra is "Mark Evans... Mark Evans... Mark Evans...".
I also said I don't think James will turn out to be the HBP. I was simply noting it's not impossible because Harry isn't the HBP right now.
Of course, that's also just my speculation on the matter, so "Mark Evans... Mark Evans... Mark Evans...".
{=^P
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S.E. Jones - Apr 2, 2005 12:29 pm (#204 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Okay, here's some thoughts on the US cover art: I think Harry and Dumbledore looking into the pensieve and the Dark Mark over the city are related (maybe pointing to Harry viewing memories of Godric's Hollow). I think Ron, Hermione, and Ginny are there just to show that the three of them are going to really come into play at somepoint.
As to James being the HBP, I think it possible. I don't think the "prince" part of the title refers to any sort of royalty but to a nickname or social position (for instance, Harry describes Malfoy as a sort of spoiled little prince). If you take the title that way, it could read as a half-blood in an important position. So, if James was a half-blood but heir to a fortune and/or one of his parents was from a long and old line of purebloods, he could be seen as a "half-blood prince". He certainly did display that "I'm so royal and important" attitude we've seen Malfoy display in the pensieve scene of OotP.
I also think the same rules could apply for calling Godric Gryffindor the HBP....
P.S. *big wave to Andrew* Welcome back, you were missed!!!
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Dumbledore - Apr 2, 2005 2:41 pm (#205 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I agree, S.E. Jones. I always tended to think that the term "prince" did not actually mean something of royalty, but rather a phrase used to describe an important half-blood, or a champion of half-bloods, so to say, then to an actual monarch or something. That's why I'm thinking the HBP could possibly be Gryffindor, if not someone that we haven't met yet...
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ruthlesspenguin - Apr 2, 2005 3:17 pm (#206 of 1448)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
To give you a real life example, while their titles are "HRH Prince William of Wales" and "HRH Prince Harry of Wales", anyone who follows the monarchy can quickly tell you neither Prince William nor Prince Harry are the Prince of Wales. That title and honor falls to their father, "HRH Charles, Prince of Wales". Andrew Buchanan
But, I believe, if Charles were to die, the title of 'Prince of Wales' would fall to his son William. As you seem more knowledgable than me, does it usually follow that such titles would be automatically given to the children at the death of the parent? I mean, other than an as yet unknown older Potter child, is it possible that Harry would not have inherited the title on Jame's death?
<(')
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 2, 2005 7:34 pm (#207 of 1448)
After reviewing the rules of the Monarchy I can find I can say with absolute 100% definite certainty: Maybe.
Prince Charles holds quite a few noble titles, and the inheritance of them depends on different circumstances. However, in the event the current reigning monarch, HM The Queen Elizabeth II, was still alive, all of Prince Charles's titles would revert to the crown and no one would hold any of them. The Queen would then be empowered to invest Prince William with the titles "Prince of Wales" and "Earl of Chester". However, William would not inherit Charles's remaining titles (Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, etc) since he is not currently part of the line of succession for those titles. Those titles would be held in reserve by the Queen and then by William himself when he became King (bearing in mind he would only be responsible for those offices, and would not inherit them even in the event of his ascendance to the throne), and would next be conferred on his eldest son.
In any case, the titles William does stand to inherit based on current circumstances would have to be conferred upon him by the current monarch, and even in the event Elizabeth and Charles both died (I know William is now of age, but let's assume this happened before he was since we're drawing a parallel to a potential underage heir...) William would not be allowed to assume the throne, which would be held in stewardship until William was of age .
So if "Half Blood Prince" refers to an actual royal title, then no... Harry would not automatically inherit it. The current monarch would have to bestow the title upon him, and in the event the current monarch also perished, Harry's title as monarch would be held in stewardship for him until such time as he was old enough to ascend...
But again, that's assuming:
A) the wizarding world has a monarchy, which it doesn't seem to have (evidence points to it being a parlaimentary system)...
B) the rules of succession are identical to the rules of succession in the British monarchy...
C) that "Half Blood Prince" is a formal title within this monarchy, and...
D) that Harry Potter be the heir apparent to the title in question (by virtue of what we know of Harry Potter's lineage, he could not be the heir presumptive in this circumstance).
I'm with Sarah on this one, though. I don't think the term "half blood prince" refers to a literal royal title, but rather a popular title someone is known by.
As to who it is... I will chant my mantra on that one.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 2, 2005 11:27 pm (#208 of 1448)
P.S.-- Hullo, Sarah. Didn't mean to snub you. It's nice to be back. =)
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Luanee - Apr 3, 2005 12:15 am (#209 of 1448)
Her-melanie, initially I also thought Harry and Dumbledore could be looking at some sort of potion. However it then occured to me that potions should be brewed in cauldrons, and not something so shallow like the Pensieve-look-alike-thing. In any case, the book is not in our hands yet, sigh....
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 3, 2005 7:46 am (#210 of 1448)
Andrew, et.al.,
Thank you for a thoughtful discussion of my "half-brewed" idea. I feel like there is something there when I talk about James as an important character against the dark arts. I keep remembering how James always hated the dark arts and his mysterious past. Nobody seems to want to talk about it to Harry. Maybe it's "loaded" information like the prophesy? That's why the idea of James Potter as the half-blood prince comes up.
Someday I'll have to read the alchemy thread to get more ideas. ;-)
Both James, Harry, and Lily have an innate sense of what's right and an instinctive dislike of dark arts. There has to be something there of importance.
Betelgeuse
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 3, 2005 3:37 pm (#211 of 1448)
Hi,
My mind keeps wandering back to the Chamber of Secrets and Harry's confrontation with Tom Marvolo Riddle. I noted two things of great import:
1. Tom Riddle's background: He's a half-blood.
2. Gryffindor's hat, sword and, perhaps, his phoenix come to Harry's rescue.
Of these, the second seems to carry more weight in the story. Dumbledore uses the sword to restore Harry's confidence in being a "true Gryfindor."
It is for these reasons that I wonder if Harry is somehow the heir of Gryffindor? If so, then Gryffindor might indeed be the half-blood prince. Harry might then be "annointed" as his spiritual heir to Dumbledore and be designated to take over the leadership of the Order of the Phoenix.
Or we could all put it down to the ramblings of wishful thinking and hurl dungbombs at it.
Thanks.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 3, 2005 4:48 pm (#212 of 1448)
I never said your idea was half brewed. I simply have a different opinion.
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Suspero - Apr 3, 2005 6:56 pm (#213 of 1448)
Professor
Joanne, I don't know about the HBP part for Gryffindor, but JKR expressly ruled out Harry as HBP. Also, about Harry being a "true Gryffindor" and an "heir to Gryffindor" -- the sorting hat said harry "would do well in Slytherin" and repeated in CoS that he stood by that, and Dumbledore told Harry it was his choices that put him in Gryffindor.
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Veritaserum - Apr 3, 2005 7:39 pm (#214 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, forgive me if anyone's already brought this up. In regards to the American cover, the thing that struck me was Harry holding his wand in his left hand. Do we know if Harry is right or left handed? I'm pretty sure in the movie he's a rightie...so what does that mean? Is it just an artistic thing for symmetry, or is there something more sinister afoot (ooh, doesn't "sinister" mean "left" in latin, more or less?)...
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 3, 2005 7:59 pm (#215 of 1448)
Harry's handedness is answered in SS/PS when Ollivander asks him which is his wand arm and Harry replies "Er-- well, I'm right handed."
There's every chance we could simply be looking at a picture where he's holding his wand in his left hand because that's where it made artistic sense to draw it (though I don't recall Mary GranPre ever having drawn Harry that way simply for convenience before).
There was another incident (in the third movie) where Harry is seen holding his wand in his left hand, because we were viewing the scene through a mirror. Perhaps we're supposed to take that visual cue to mean this scene is being viewed through one as well.
And yeah, sinister is the latin word for "left"... however, adoption of the word sinister to mean other things is due to influences which don't factor into the world of Harry Potter (to put it in a genteel way), the use of the left hand to indicate something darker seems like it would be out of place to me.
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 3, 2005 8:08 pm (#216 of 1448)
Andrew,
I'm the one who said it was half-brewed. Thanks again.
Betelgeuse
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scoop2172000 - Apr 4, 2005 4:15 am (#217 of 1448)
In the American cover of Order of the Phoenix, Harry holds his wand in his left hand too.
Veritaserum, I agree with you that it is artistic liscene that the artist draws the illustrations showing Harry holding the wand in his left hand, sort of like the American covers of the first three books in which Harry is depicted wearing a red cape over Muggle clothing rather than black robes.
Andrew, thanks for pointing out canon in which Harry states he's right-handed.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 4, 2005 6:39 am (#218 of 1448)
I missed that. Thanks, scoop. =)
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Eponine - Apr 4, 2005 8:07 am (#219 of 1448)
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mary Grand Pre said she draws him left-handed because she is left-handed. I can't confirm that's the reason, but if you look here and scroll down to the picture, she seems to be holding a crayon/piece of chalk/artsy drawing thing in her left hand.
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GryffEndora - Apr 4, 2005 10:09 am (#220 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Eponine - FYI - Mary Grand Pre uses Pastel and Charcoal for the Harry drawings, both of which often look like a piece of broken crayon or chalk.
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 4, 2005 11:22 am (#221 of 1448)
Hi, Suspero,
I agree that Harry can NOT be the HBP. However, there is something that Harry discovered in CoS that is pertinent to HBP. I enumerated the two things that I personally felt were the most important of all the things he discovered during his second year.
I very deliberately excluded Harry from being the HBP and suggested that Gryffindor might be.
I suggested that Harry's discovery that he was a "true Gryffindor" was important. This had absolutuely nothing to do with the Sorting Hat. Instead, I was referring to the incident in DD's office immediately after Harry's return from the CoS and just prior to the entrance of Lucius Malfoy.
'"Only a true Gryffindor cold have pulled that out of the hat, Harry," said Dumbledore simply.'
I suggested that its import would be that Harry would become far more important to the WW. Further, I suggested that Harry might be placed in training to succeed Dumbledore as leader of the fight against Evil.
Thanks,
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Tomoé - Apr 4, 2005 7:53 pm (#222 of 1448)
Back in business
I gave a closer look to the stand-up and compared it with the book cover, I discover that the "pensieve" and the "pillar of Storgé" are bigger on the stand-up; the lower tip of Harry's wand is above the edge of the "pensieve" on the cover, while Harry's sleeve's tip is above the edge on the stand-up. Dumbledore's position is almost the same though. Both Harry and Dumbledore are further up from the pensieve and computer generated "airbrush" cloud was added above the pensieve (in blue).
There another computer generated "airbrush" cloud, although thinner, behind the "and the Half-blood Prince" script (also in blue).
On the pillar itself, there's a zigzag pattern that come at a regular length on the pillar (in red). The artist's movement marks around these zigzags are the same from zigzag to zigzag. This is impossible to do with Pastel and Charcoal (thanks GryffEndora), and therefore indicate a computer duplication.
"Hermione" and "Ron" are very cramped, "Hermione"'s face is partly hidden behind the pillar, while "Ginny" have more than enough room. This is not Grandpré's style (in green).
There's also a strange mark below "Ron and Hermione" (also in green), a piece of green fog that doesn't seem to fit with its surrounding and is amazingly perpendicular to the edge of the stand-up and it could continue to the other side of the pillar. It could be part of the drawing, but I do wonder.
Looking at the pillar and the background beside, HRG are in a greenish fog, Harry and Dumbledore are in a greenish fog, the top of the pillar is in a greenish fog, but not the bottom, while the fog seems to get thicker in the lower part of the drawing.
Hermione, Ron and Ginny are looking above, but not as far up as Harry and Dumbledore, the are looking at "who is the".
So, what does that means? The stand-up was made of two different images, one with Harry, Dumbledore and the Pensieve and another with "Hermione, Ron, Ginny" and the death mark (likely the front and back cover of the book). They lengthened, enlarged and lowered the pillar so the spoiler part of the back cover was hidden and unity is given to a picture that would make sense otherwise. Which also mean there could be other people between Ron/Hermione and Ginny and there likely something important on the right of the Death Mark.
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Marie E. - Apr 4, 2005 8:08 pm (#223 of 1448)
When I first saw the stand-up picture, I suspected that bits were missing. I bet that the city scene is all across the back of the book and that there are more people between the kids. The presence of the Dark Mark is unsettling as it shows that someone the kids know will probably die.
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night41 - Apr 4, 2005 9:34 pm (#224 of 1448)
I'm not sure if anyone asked this question and if so sorry. I was Amazon looking at Harry Potter 6 and I noticed that Amazon also going to sell Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (Book 6) [DELUXE EDITION]which is like double the price as the ordinary Book 6. Does anyone know anything about this "DELUXE EDITION." Untill tonight I have not even read about it. Thanks for any information.
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James Greenfield - Apr 5, 2005 12:58 am (#225 of 1448)
night41: I believe the Deluxe Edition will have some 30 or more pages added, which will have the chapter illustrations enlarged to page size. (Can someone else verify this?)
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 5, 2005 1:29 am (#226 of 1448)
The deluxe edition of the book will feature unique interior art drawn especially for that edition. It will also contain a 32 page insert of the art from the regular edition of the book, with all the drawing blown up to page size. Since the regular edition is 672 pages long and the deluxe edition is 704 (exactly 32 pages longer), I would hazard a guess the differences between the two aren't in the text, but in the artistry of the book.
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Regan of Gong - Apr 5, 2005 4:27 am (#227 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Does that mean HBP will have around 32 chapters?
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Chemyst - Apr 5, 2005 5:19 am (#228 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Thanks for including the artwork Tomoé. That is the first time I've seen the entire pillar without scrolling and, yes, the proportions do look stretched a lot for the stand-up. If you are right, and you probably are, about the characters being from the back cover, then that does explain the "unbalanced look" and really makes me wonder who (or who all) is/are missing.
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Mattew Bates - Apr 5, 2005 9:38 am (#229 of 1448)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
If I may differ in opinion from a few people, I'm relatively sure it's a Pensieve that Harry & Dumbledore are looking into on the GrandPre cover. If you look close, there are runes around its outside edge, just like a Pensieve is described as having.
Also, James has been stated as pure-blood, precluding him from being the Half-Blood Prince (besides, how much could James have had to do with CoS?).
Of course, I'll be the first in line for humble pie if JKR proves me wrong.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 5, 2005 2:00 pm (#230 of 1448)
Good catch on the runes, Mr. Bates. You're the first I've seen pick up on that.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 5, 2005 4:33 pm (#231 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I don't know if anyone here has read all the kerfuffle on Mugglenet about THIS found on Border's HP displays.
Some think it's a key. I think it's just a decoration. But if it is a key, then I suspect it's the key to Sirius' Gringotts Vault, and what if Harry has inherited whatever might be stored in that vault?
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Star Crossed - Apr 5, 2005 4:35 pm (#232 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think that's a good theory, Gina, but it leaves me feeling wrong. As I found out a couple months ago, Sirius' vault number was included in the English version, but not the American version. I think if it was going to come into play, she would have made them keep it. It's still a possibility, of course.
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Ponine - Apr 5, 2005 6:23 pm (#233 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Gina - To me the 'key' - I think it looks like a key - seems to have letters on it? Either LS or just a snaky S... I am a little unsure of the L. Does anyone else see what I mean?
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 5, 2005 6:49 pm (#234 of 1448)
I swear the key in question is a publisher's logo, because the instant I saw it I said to myself "Oh, that... that's just the logo for... for... drat, what's the name of that publishing house again?"
Unfortunately, as I don't remember which house it's to, I can't tell you for sure, but that's my immediate thought on the subject.
However, were I thinking of keys which might be important to Harry Potter, I might think of the key to the locked door in the Department of Mysteries.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 5, 2005 6:57 pm (#235 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, but the publisher in this case would be Scholastic, as it's a stand at a Border's Books.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 5, 2005 7:17 pm (#236 of 1448)
S'not Scholastic or Bloomsbury. Scholastic is a lantern and Bloomsbury is an archer firing an arrow. I'm sure I'll think of it about five minutes after it becomes a moot point. =)
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Melly - Apr 5, 2005 8:45 pm (#237 of 1448)
Andrew that was my immediate thought as well. A logo of the company or somthing along those lines
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kabloink! - Apr 6, 2005 6:08 am (#238 of 1448)
Optician's Assistant
I'm pretty sure that key has something to do with Borders or Waldnebooks. I worked there over the Christmas before last, and it looks really, REALLY familiar. And, as it is below/ in between the companie's logos, and necessarily actually on the display, I'm pretty sure it is simply a Borders thing. Sorry guys.
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Tomoé - Apr 6, 2005 8:52 am (#239 of 1448)
Back in business
Thank you Andrew, Errol and kabloink!, I knew it was a key that I have seen somewhere, but could not get further than that.
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S.E. Jones - Apr 6, 2005 6:28 pm (#240 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Mathew Bates: Also, James has been stated as pure-blood, precluding him from being the Half-Blood Prince (besides, how much could James have had to do with CoS?)
Where is it ever stated that James was a pureblood? As far as I can find, it isn't stated anywhere, thus it can't preclude him from being nicknamed the HBP while at school or something. Also, the actual HBP, according to JKR on her website, has nothing to do with CoS. There is a link between the two books in the form of a discovery Harry makes in CoS that becomes somehow more important in the sixth book.
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Suspero - Apr 6, 2005 8:20 pm (#241 of 1448)
Professor
What about Hermione's parents?
There was a rumor going around for awhile about Justin Finch-Fletchley being the HBP, has that been squelched?
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Tomoé - Apr 6, 2005 9:10 pm (#242 of 1448)
Back in business
Well, Justin is muggle-born, not half-blood ...
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Eponine - Apr 6, 2005 9:14 pm (#243 of 1448)
Off topic, Tomoe, I sent you an e-mail to the address in your profile regarding that quote you were looking for a while ago. Did you get it?
To be on-topic, what do you all think is going to cause her to upset some readers in HBP?
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S.E. Jones - Apr 6, 2005 10:07 pm (#244 of 1448)
Let it snow!
It could be just about anything. It could be a favorite character dying (Hagrid maybe?); it could be the dark tone of the book; it could be a certain 'ship pairing up....
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Albus Silente - Apr 7, 2005 2:35 am (#245 of 1448)
I am sure to have read in some JK interview that she won't kill off Hagrid, because without him Hogwarts wouldn't be Hogwarts anymore. But I might have dreamed I read it. I'll do a search... or if anyone of you is faster than me... always welcome
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Ff3girl - Apr 7, 2005 6:20 am (#246 of 1448)
Uhm... it's possible you're just remembering the slightly cheezy ending to COS. "Hogwarts just isn't Hogwarts without you, Hagrid." AAAAWWWww...
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Albus Silente - Apr 7, 2005 9:05 am (#247 of 1448)
Got you! -found it... J.K. Rowling interview transcript, The Connection (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999
Hi, I have a question about Hagrid. JKR: Oh, Cool. I like Hagrid. Ask away.
Is he going to be in the rest of the books? JKR: Yes.
He’s my favorite character. JKR: Oh, is he your favorite character? I like you because he’s one of my favorite characters. Yeah, if you take away Harry and Hermione and Ron, then I love Hagrid the best definitely. He is going to be around. You are going to keep seeing him. I suspect that the reason you are asking this is because there is a rumor going around that people are going to die in the upcoming books. People are going to die and I’m not going to tell you who is and who isn’t because--- that’s for very obvious reasons.
... I knew I read this somewhere!!!
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Tomoé - Apr 7, 2005 10:15 am (#248 of 1448)
Back in business
So not Hagrid, not Snape* and not Harry.
That leaves Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Arthur, Molly, Gred, Forge, Neville, Lupin, Moody, Tonks and McGonagall (I think I named all the characters whose death would be as bad as or worse than Sirius's).
*Also, will we see more of Snape?
You always see a lot of Snape, because he is a gift of a character.(Edinburgh Book Festival, 15 August 2004)
[Which is to say, he won't die before book 7 if he dies in the series]
Edit: I forgot Luna
Re-edit: unless some other characters take a more important role, maybe Kinsley, Mundungus, Ernie, Hannah, Terry ...
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Mattew Bates - Apr 7, 2005 10:56 am (#249 of 1448)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
S.E. Jones, You made me do some quick research, and I was surprised to find out that there is no direct reference to the purity (or lack thereof) of James Potter's blood. I have been contaminated by fan fiction. I formally withdraw that my statement that he had been stated as such.
Still, how could Harry be considered a half-blood by Tom Riddle and Dumbledore if he didn't have a pureblood parent? I'm pretty sure that, at least as far as Riddle is concerned, a half blood and a mudblood is just more mud. And while wealth isn't an indicator of pure blood by itself, all hands point to James being from a wealthy wizarding family. I suppose it gets down to splitting hairs about wizarding culture for how many generations half-bloods must breed with half-bloods and purebloods to once again be considered Pure
.
I see where you're coming from on your other point - HBP currently has nothing to do with CoS - but "Half-Blood Prince" was the working title of book two. JKR said the story of the HBP was an ill-fitting thread in book two, and a better integrated thread in book six. I'm assuming that, ill fitting or no, it could have been made to fit in book two, but it fit better in book six. (For the record, I'm assuming the HBP is either Godric or Salazar.) Of course, now that I'm no longer under the false assmption that the Potter line had been stated as Pure, I can see how Harry's parentage could have been brought into question in book two. Knuts.
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S.E. Jones - Apr 7, 2005 1:26 pm (#250 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--Mathew Bates: Still, how could Harry be considered a half-blood by Tom Riddle and Dumbledore if he didn't have a pureblood parent? I'm pretty sure that, at least as far as Riddle is concerned, a half blood and a mudblood is just more mud.--
Well, since "half-blood" seems to be anything that isn't pureblood or Muggle-born and since the system seems to follow most other cultures' distinctions of blood, a half-blood and a Muggle-born would produce another half-blood (i.e. anything that isn't Muggle-born or pureblooded), two half-bloods would produce a half-blood or a "pureblood" (probably depending on how far back the Muggles were in the half-blood's family tree), two Muggle-borns would produce a half-blood, a half-blood and a pureblood might produce a "pureblood" (again depending on how far back the Muggles were on the half-blood's side of the family), and a Muggle-born and a pureblood would produce a half-blood.
Anyway, James could easily be a half-blood with money, i.e. a "half-blood prince", and Harry would still be a half-blood as well. If one of James's parents was pureblooded and inherited a fortune, so would James. As for HBP being the working title of CoS, it was only as long as she thought she could thread the HBP plotline through.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Professor
Thanks Her-Melanie for the correction -- Charms! Didn't Dumbledore claim that the protection on Harry was his cleverest invention? So I'm hoping that we find out who did what. Kind of looks like HP6:tHBP is going to be a "the truth is revealed at last" tome, eh? Sets us up for book 7 to be the final confrontations, etc. I won't mention any other sagas and series, but that seems almost SOP (standard operating procedure) for an epic, doesn't it?
Charms and Potions... green and fire... I'm still ruminating. If James Potter was the HBP wouldn't Snape (excuse me, Prof. Snape) and some of the others have spoken to him differently? Seems like some sneering reference would've surfaced by now in 5 books. And, wouldn't it surface in how the Death Eaters and Lucius Malfoy pursued Harry? They sometimes act as if Harry was incidental, a surprise wild card, and I can't picture them acting that way if James Potter was the HBP. Hagrid being HBP would be a shockeroo revelation of some kind and seems mighty tangential to ye olde storie. My vote at the moment is Gryffindor or else a character in CoS that I should've paid more attention to.
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Her-melanie - Apr 2, 2005 10:08 am (#202 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
No problem, Suspero...actually, even though I still think the cover shows a pensieve, it does also look like it could be a potion of sorts. Perhaps there's some kind of potion you can specially make in a pensieve to see things other than your own memories. It also made me wonder, if it is some kind of potion, is Dumbledore teaching Harry advanced potions? I can't help thinking Potions is going to be important in HBP, as is Snape. I agree that if James is the HBP it should've shown up by now, BUT I also think in real life, Harry would know more about his parents at this point than he seems to. Wouldn't you try to find out all you could about your parents from DD, Sirius, and Lupin? I would.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 2, 2005 11:50 am (#203 of 1448)
Well, actually I hadn't ever suggested Grindewald could be one of Harry's relatives. In fact, unless J.K. Rowling specifically says he is, I don't really see any reason to drag such a minor character into the situation since he was pretty well only mentioned in passing because J.K. Rowling needed some significant sounding filler to throw around Nicholas Flamel in order to make him less obvious, and maybe establish Dumbledore had done this sort of thing before.
Other than that, every time I start to seriously speculate about what or who a character might be before J.K. Rowling actually gets around to telling us, I immediately take a break and go meditate. My mantra is "Mark Evans... Mark Evans... Mark Evans...".
I also said I don't think James will turn out to be the HBP. I was simply noting it's not impossible because Harry isn't the HBP right now.
Of course, that's also just my speculation on the matter, so "Mark Evans... Mark Evans... Mark Evans...".
{=^P
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S.E. Jones - Apr 2, 2005 12:29 pm (#204 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Okay, here's some thoughts on the US cover art: I think Harry and Dumbledore looking into the pensieve and the Dark Mark over the city are related (maybe pointing to Harry viewing memories of Godric's Hollow). I think Ron, Hermione, and Ginny are there just to show that the three of them are going to really come into play at somepoint.
As to James being the HBP, I think it possible. I don't think the "prince" part of the title refers to any sort of royalty but to a nickname or social position (for instance, Harry describes Malfoy as a sort of spoiled little prince). If you take the title that way, it could read as a half-blood in an important position. So, if James was a half-blood but heir to a fortune and/or one of his parents was from a long and old line of purebloods, he could be seen as a "half-blood prince". He certainly did display that "I'm so royal and important" attitude we've seen Malfoy display in the pensieve scene of OotP.
I also think the same rules could apply for calling Godric Gryffindor the HBP....
P.S. *big wave to Andrew* Welcome back, you were missed!!!
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Dumbledore - Apr 2, 2005 2:41 pm (#205 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I agree, S.E. Jones. I always tended to think that the term "prince" did not actually mean something of royalty, but rather a phrase used to describe an important half-blood, or a champion of half-bloods, so to say, then to an actual monarch or something. That's why I'm thinking the HBP could possibly be Gryffindor, if not someone that we haven't met yet...
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ruthlesspenguin - Apr 2, 2005 3:17 pm (#206 of 1448)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
To give you a real life example, while their titles are "HRH Prince William of Wales" and "HRH Prince Harry of Wales", anyone who follows the monarchy can quickly tell you neither Prince William nor Prince Harry are the Prince of Wales. That title and honor falls to their father, "HRH Charles, Prince of Wales". Andrew Buchanan
But, I believe, if Charles were to die, the title of 'Prince of Wales' would fall to his son William. As you seem more knowledgable than me, does it usually follow that such titles would be automatically given to the children at the death of the parent? I mean, other than an as yet unknown older Potter child, is it possible that Harry would not have inherited the title on Jame's death?
<(')
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 2, 2005 7:34 pm (#207 of 1448)
After reviewing the rules of the Monarchy I can find I can say with absolute 100% definite certainty: Maybe.
Prince Charles holds quite a few noble titles, and the inheritance of them depends on different circumstances. However, in the event the current reigning monarch, HM The Queen Elizabeth II, was still alive, all of Prince Charles's titles would revert to the crown and no one would hold any of them. The Queen would then be empowered to invest Prince William with the titles "Prince of Wales" and "Earl of Chester". However, William would not inherit Charles's remaining titles (Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron Renfrew, Lord of the Isles, Prince and Great Steward of Scotland, etc) since he is not currently part of the line of succession for those titles. Those titles would be held in reserve by the Queen and then by William himself when he became King (bearing in mind he would only be responsible for those offices, and would not inherit them even in the event of his ascendance to the throne), and would next be conferred on his eldest son.
In any case, the titles William does stand to inherit based on current circumstances would have to be conferred upon him by the current monarch, and even in the event Elizabeth and Charles both died (I know William is now of age, but let's assume this happened before he was since we're drawing a parallel to a potential underage heir...) William would not be allowed to assume the throne, which would be held in stewardship until William was of age .
So if "Half Blood Prince" refers to an actual royal title, then no... Harry would not automatically inherit it. The current monarch would have to bestow the title upon him, and in the event the current monarch also perished, Harry's title as monarch would be held in stewardship for him until such time as he was old enough to ascend...
But again, that's assuming:
A) the wizarding world has a monarchy, which it doesn't seem to have (evidence points to it being a parlaimentary system)...
B) the rules of succession are identical to the rules of succession in the British monarchy...
C) that "Half Blood Prince" is a formal title within this monarchy, and...
D) that Harry Potter be the heir apparent to the title in question (by virtue of what we know of Harry Potter's lineage, he could not be the heir presumptive in this circumstance).
I'm with Sarah on this one, though. I don't think the term "half blood prince" refers to a literal royal title, but rather a popular title someone is known by.
As to who it is... I will chant my mantra on that one.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 2, 2005 11:27 pm (#208 of 1448)
P.S.-- Hullo, Sarah. Didn't mean to snub you. It's nice to be back. =)
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Luanee - Apr 3, 2005 12:15 am (#209 of 1448)
Her-melanie, initially I also thought Harry and Dumbledore could be looking at some sort of potion. However it then occured to me that potions should be brewed in cauldrons, and not something so shallow like the Pensieve-look-alike-thing. In any case, the book is not in our hands yet, sigh....
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 3, 2005 7:46 am (#210 of 1448)
Andrew, et.al.,
Thank you for a thoughtful discussion of my "half-brewed" idea. I feel like there is something there when I talk about James as an important character against the dark arts. I keep remembering how James always hated the dark arts and his mysterious past. Nobody seems to want to talk about it to Harry. Maybe it's "loaded" information like the prophesy? That's why the idea of James Potter as the half-blood prince comes up.
Someday I'll have to read the alchemy thread to get more ideas. ;-)
Both James, Harry, and Lily have an innate sense of what's right and an instinctive dislike of dark arts. There has to be something there of importance.
Betelgeuse
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 3, 2005 3:37 pm (#211 of 1448)
Hi,
My mind keeps wandering back to the Chamber of Secrets and Harry's confrontation with Tom Marvolo Riddle. I noted two things of great import:
1. Tom Riddle's background: He's a half-blood.
2. Gryffindor's hat, sword and, perhaps, his phoenix come to Harry's rescue.
Of these, the second seems to carry more weight in the story. Dumbledore uses the sword to restore Harry's confidence in being a "true Gryfindor."
It is for these reasons that I wonder if Harry is somehow the heir of Gryffindor? If so, then Gryffindor might indeed be the half-blood prince. Harry might then be "annointed" as his spiritual heir to Dumbledore and be designated to take over the leadership of the Order of the Phoenix.
Or we could all put it down to the ramblings of wishful thinking and hurl dungbombs at it.
Thanks.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 3, 2005 4:48 pm (#212 of 1448)
I never said your idea was half brewed. I simply have a different opinion.
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Suspero - Apr 3, 2005 6:56 pm (#213 of 1448)
Professor
Joanne, I don't know about the HBP part for Gryffindor, but JKR expressly ruled out Harry as HBP. Also, about Harry being a "true Gryffindor" and an "heir to Gryffindor" -- the sorting hat said harry "would do well in Slytherin" and repeated in CoS that he stood by that, and Dumbledore told Harry it was his choices that put him in Gryffindor.
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Veritaserum - Apr 3, 2005 7:39 pm (#214 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, forgive me if anyone's already brought this up. In regards to the American cover, the thing that struck me was Harry holding his wand in his left hand. Do we know if Harry is right or left handed? I'm pretty sure in the movie he's a rightie...so what does that mean? Is it just an artistic thing for symmetry, or is there something more sinister afoot (ooh, doesn't "sinister" mean "left" in latin, more or less?)...
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 3, 2005 7:59 pm (#215 of 1448)
Harry's handedness is answered in SS/PS when Ollivander asks him which is his wand arm and Harry replies "Er-- well, I'm right handed."
There's every chance we could simply be looking at a picture where he's holding his wand in his left hand because that's where it made artistic sense to draw it (though I don't recall Mary GranPre ever having drawn Harry that way simply for convenience before).
There was another incident (in the third movie) where Harry is seen holding his wand in his left hand, because we were viewing the scene through a mirror. Perhaps we're supposed to take that visual cue to mean this scene is being viewed through one as well.
And yeah, sinister is the latin word for "left"... however, adoption of the word sinister to mean other things is due to influences which don't factor into the world of Harry Potter (to put it in a genteel way), the use of the left hand to indicate something darker seems like it would be out of place to me.
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 3, 2005 8:08 pm (#216 of 1448)
Andrew,
I'm the one who said it was half-brewed. Thanks again.
Betelgeuse
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scoop2172000 - Apr 4, 2005 4:15 am (#217 of 1448)
In the American cover of Order of the Phoenix, Harry holds his wand in his left hand too.
Veritaserum, I agree with you that it is artistic liscene that the artist draws the illustrations showing Harry holding the wand in his left hand, sort of like the American covers of the first three books in which Harry is depicted wearing a red cape over Muggle clothing rather than black robes.
Andrew, thanks for pointing out canon in which Harry states he's right-handed.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 4, 2005 6:39 am (#218 of 1448)
I missed that. Thanks, scoop. =)
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Eponine - Apr 4, 2005 8:07 am (#219 of 1448)
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Mary Grand Pre said she draws him left-handed because she is left-handed. I can't confirm that's the reason, but if you look here and scroll down to the picture, she seems to be holding a crayon/piece of chalk/artsy drawing thing in her left hand.
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GryffEndora - Apr 4, 2005 10:09 am (#220 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Eponine - FYI - Mary Grand Pre uses Pastel and Charcoal for the Harry drawings, both of which often look like a piece of broken crayon or chalk.
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 4, 2005 11:22 am (#221 of 1448)
Hi, Suspero,
I agree that Harry can NOT be the HBP. However, there is something that Harry discovered in CoS that is pertinent to HBP. I enumerated the two things that I personally felt were the most important of all the things he discovered during his second year.
I very deliberately excluded Harry from being the HBP and suggested that Gryffindor might be.
I suggested that Harry's discovery that he was a "true Gryffindor" was important. This had absolutuely nothing to do with the Sorting Hat. Instead, I was referring to the incident in DD's office immediately after Harry's return from the CoS and just prior to the entrance of Lucius Malfoy.
'"Only a true Gryffindor cold have pulled that out of the hat, Harry," said Dumbledore simply.'
I suggested that its import would be that Harry would become far more important to the WW. Further, I suggested that Harry might be placed in training to succeed Dumbledore as leader of the fight against Evil.
Thanks,
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Tomoé - Apr 4, 2005 7:53 pm (#222 of 1448)
Back in business
I gave a closer look to the stand-up and compared it with the book cover, I discover that the "pensieve" and the "pillar of Storgé" are bigger on the stand-up; the lower tip of Harry's wand is above the edge of the "pensieve" on the cover, while Harry's sleeve's tip is above the edge on the stand-up. Dumbledore's position is almost the same though. Both Harry and Dumbledore are further up from the pensieve and computer generated "airbrush" cloud was added above the pensieve (in blue).
There another computer generated "airbrush" cloud, although thinner, behind the "and the Half-blood Prince" script (also in blue).
On the pillar itself, there's a zigzag pattern that come at a regular length on the pillar (in red). The artist's movement marks around these zigzags are the same from zigzag to zigzag. This is impossible to do with Pastel and Charcoal (thanks GryffEndora), and therefore indicate a computer duplication.
"Hermione" and "Ron" are very cramped, "Hermione"'s face is partly hidden behind the pillar, while "Ginny" have more than enough room. This is not Grandpré's style (in green).
There's also a strange mark below "Ron and Hermione" (also in green), a piece of green fog that doesn't seem to fit with its surrounding and is amazingly perpendicular to the edge of the stand-up and it could continue to the other side of the pillar. It could be part of the drawing, but I do wonder.
Looking at the pillar and the background beside, HRG are in a greenish fog, Harry and Dumbledore are in a greenish fog, the top of the pillar is in a greenish fog, but not the bottom, while the fog seems to get thicker in the lower part of the drawing.
Hermione, Ron and Ginny are looking above, but not as far up as Harry and Dumbledore, the are looking at "who is the".
So, what does that means? The stand-up was made of two different images, one with Harry, Dumbledore and the Pensieve and another with "Hermione, Ron, Ginny" and the death mark (likely the front and back cover of the book). They lengthened, enlarged and lowered the pillar so the spoiler part of the back cover was hidden and unity is given to a picture that would make sense otherwise. Which also mean there could be other people between Ron/Hermione and Ginny and there likely something important on the right of the Death Mark.
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Marie E. - Apr 4, 2005 8:08 pm (#223 of 1448)
When I first saw the stand-up picture, I suspected that bits were missing. I bet that the city scene is all across the back of the book and that there are more people between the kids. The presence of the Dark Mark is unsettling as it shows that someone the kids know will probably die.
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night41 - Apr 4, 2005 9:34 pm (#224 of 1448)
I'm not sure if anyone asked this question and if so sorry. I was Amazon looking at Harry Potter 6 and I noticed that Amazon also going to sell Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (Book 6) [DELUXE EDITION]which is like double the price as the ordinary Book 6. Does anyone know anything about this "DELUXE EDITION." Untill tonight I have not even read about it. Thanks for any information.
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James Greenfield - Apr 5, 2005 12:58 am (#225 of 1448)
night41: I believe the Deluxe Edition will have some 30 or more pages added, which will have the chapter illustrations enlarged to page size. (Can someone else verify this?)
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 5, 2005 1:29 am (#226 of 1448)
The deluxe edition of the book will feature unique interior art drawn especially for that edition. It will also contain a 32 page insert of the art from the regular edition of the book, with all the drawing blown up to page size. Since the regular edition is 672 pages long and the deluxe edition is 704 (exactly 32 pages longer), I would hazard a guess the differences between the two aren't in the text, but in the artistry of the book.
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Regan of Gong - Apr 5, 2005 4:27 am (#227 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Does that mean HBP will have around 32 chapters?
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Chemyst - Apr 5, 2005 5:19 am (#228 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Thanks for including the artwork Tomoé. That is the first time I've seen the entire pillar without scrolling and, yes, the proportions do look stretched a lot for the stand-up. If you are right, and you probably are, about the characters being from the back cover, then that does explain the "unbalanced look" and really makes me wonder who (or who all) is/are missing.
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Mattew Bates - Apr 5, 2005 9:38 am (#229 of 1448)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
If I may differ in opinion from a few people, I'm relatively sure it's a Pensieve that Harry & Dumbledore are looking into on the GrandPre cover. If you look close, there are runes around its outside edge, just like a Pensieve is described as having.
Also, James has been stated as pure-blood, precluding him from being the Half-Blood Prince (besides, how much could James have had to do with CoS?).
Of course, I'll be the first in line for humble pie if JKR proves me wrong.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 5, 2005 2:00 pm (#230 of 1448)
Good catch on the runes, Mr. Bates. You're the first I've seen pick up on that.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 5, 2005 4:33 pm (#231 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I don't know if anyone here has read all the kerfuffle on Mugglenet about THIS found on Border's HP displays.
Some think it's a key. I think it's just a decoration. But if it is a key, then I suspect it's the key to Sirius' Gringotts Vault, and what if Harry has inherited whatever might be stored in that vault?
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Star Crossed - Apr 5, 2005 4:35 pm (#232 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I think that's a good theory, Gina, but it leaves me feeling wrong. As I found out a couple months ago, Sirius' vault number was included in the English version, but not the American version. I think if it was going to come into play, she would have made them keep it. It's still a possibility, of course.
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Ponine - Apr 5, 2005 6:23 pm (#233 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Gina - To me the 'key' - I think it looks like a key - seems to have letters on it? Either LS or just a snaky S... I am a little unsure of the L. Does anyone else see what I mean?
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 5, 2005 6:49 pm (#234 of 1448)
I swear the key in question is a publisher's logo, because the instant I saw it I said to myself "Oh, that... that's just the logo for... for... drat, what's the name of that publishing house again?"
Unfortunately, as I don't remember which house it's to, I can't tell you for sure, but that's my immediate thought on the subject.
However, were I thinking of keys which might be important to Harry Potter, I might think of the key to the locked door in the Department of Mysteries.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 5, 2005 6:57 pm (#235 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, but the publisher in this case would be Scholastic, as it's a stand at a Border's Books.
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Verschwinden Sie - Apr 5, 2005 7:17 pm (#236 of 1448)
S'not Scholastic or Bloomsbury. Scholastic is a lantern and Bloomsbury is an archer firing an arrow. I'm sure I'll think of it about five minutes after it becomes a moot point. =)
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Melly - Apr 5, 2005 8:45 pm (#237 of 1448)
Andrew that was my immediate thought as well. A logo of the company or somthing along those lines
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kabloink! - Apr 6, 2005 6:08 am (#238 of 1448)
Optician's Assistant
I'm pretty sure that key has something to do with Borders or Waldnebooks. I worked there over the Christmas before last, and it looks really, REALLY familiar. And, as it is below/ in between the companie's logos, and necessarily actually on the display, I'm pretty sure it is simply a Borders thing. Sorry guys.
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Tomoé - Apr 6, 2005 8:52 am (#239 of 1448)
Back in business
Thank you Andrew, Errol and kabloink!, I knew it was a key that I have seen somewhere, but could not get further than that.
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S.E. Jones - Apr 6, 2005 6:28 pm (#240 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Mathew Bates: Also, James has been stated as pure-blood, precluding him from being the Half-Blood Prince (besides, how much could James have had to do with CoS?)
Where is it ever stated that James was a pureblood? As far as I can find, it isn't stated anywhere, thus it can't preclude him from being nicknamed the HBP while at school or something. Also, the actual HBP, according to JKR on her website, has nothing to do with CoS. There is a link between the two books in the form of a discovery Harry makes in CoS that becomes somehow more important in the sixth book.
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Suspero - Apr 6, 2005 8:20 pm (#241 of 1448)
Professor
What about Hermione's parents?
There was a rumor going around for awhile about Justin Finch-Fletchley being the HBP, has that been squelched?
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Tomoé - Apr 6, 2005 9:10 pm (#242 of 1448)
Back in business
Well, Justin is muggle-born, not half-blood ...
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Eponine - Apr 6, 2005 9:14 pm (#243 of 1448)
Off topic, Tomoe, I sent you an e-mail to the address in your profile regarding that quote you were looking for a while ago. Did you get it?
To be on-topic, what do you all think is going to cause her to upset some readers in HBP?
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S.E. Jones - Apr 6, 2005 10:07 pm (#244 of 1448)
Let it snow!
It could be just about anything. It could be a favorite character dying (Hagrid maybe?); it could be the dark tone of the book; it could be a certain 'ship pairing up....
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Albus Silente - Apr 7, 2005 2:35 am (#245 of 1448)
I am sure to have read in some JK interview that she won't kill off Hagrid, because without him Hogwarts wouldn't be Hogwarts anymore. But I might have dreamed I read it. I'll do a search... or if anyone of you is faster than me... always welcome
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Ff3girl - Apr 7, 2005 6:20 am (#246 of 1448)
Uhm... it's possible you're just remembering the slightly cheezy ending to COS. "Hogwarts just isn't Hogwarts without you, Hagrid." AAAAWWWww...
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Albus Silente - Apr 7, 2005 9:05 am (#247 of 1448)
Got you! -found it... J.K. Rowling interview transcript, The Connection (WBUR Radio), 12 October, 1999
Hi, I have a question about Hagrid. JKR: Oh, Cool. I like Hagrid. Ask away.
Is he going to be in the rest of the books? JKR: Yes.
He’s my favorite character. JKR: Oh, is he your favorite character? I like you because he’s one of my favorite characters. Yeah, if you take away Harry and Hermione and Ron, then I love Hagrid the best definitely. He is going to be around. You are going to keep seeing him. I suspect that the reason you are asking this is because there is a rumor going around that people are going to die in the upcoming books. People are going to die and I’m not going to tell you who is and who isn’t because--- that’s for very obvious reasons.
... I knew I read this somewhere!!!
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Tomoé - Apr 7, 2005 10:15 am (#248 of 1448)
Back in business
So not Hagrid, not Snape* and not Harry.
That leaves Dumbledore, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, Arthur, Molly, Gred, Forge, Neville, Lupin, Moody, Tonks and McGonagall (I think I named all the characters whose death would be as bad as or worse than Sirius's).
*Also, will we see more of Snape?
You always see a lot of Snape, because he is a gift of a character.(Edinburgh Book Festival, 15 August 2004)
[Which is to say, he won't die before book 7 if he dies in the series]
Edit: I forgot Luna
Re-edit: unless some other characters take a more important role, maybe Kinsley, Mundungus, Ernie, Hannah, Terry ...
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Mattew Bates - Apr 7, 2005 10:56 am (#249 of 1448)
“Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” Kahlil Gibran
S.E. Jones, You made me do some quick research, and I was surprised to find out that there is no direct reference to the purity (or lack thereof) of James Potter's blood. I have been contaminated by fan fiction. I formally withdraw that my statement that he had been stated as such.
Still, how could Harry be considered a half-blood by Tom Riddle and Dumbledore if he didn't have a pureblood parent? I'm pretty sure that, at least as far as Riddle is concerned, a half blood and a mudblood is just more mud. And while wealth isn't an indicator of pure blood by itself, all hands point to James being from a wealthy wizarding family. I suppose it gets down to splitting hairs about wizarding culture for how many generations half-bloods must breed with half-bloods and purebloods to once again be considered Pure
. I see where you're coming from on your other point - HBP currently has nothing to do with CoS - but "Half-Blood Prince" was the working title of book two. JKR said the story of the HBP was an ill-fitting thread in book two, and a better integrated thread in book six. I'm assuming that, ill fitting or no, it could have been made to fit in book two, but it fit better in book six. (For the record, I'm assuming the HBP is either Godric or Salazar.) Of course, now that I'm no longer under the false assmption that the Potter line had been stated as Pure
, I can see how Harry's parentage could have been brought into question in book two. Knuts. - - - - - - - - - -
S.E. Jones - Apr 7, 2005 1:26 pm (#250 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--Mathew Bates: Still, how could Harry be considered a half-blood by Tom Riddle and Dumbledore if he didn't have a pureblood parent? I'm pretty sure that, at least as far as Riddle is concerned, a half blood and a mudblood is just more mud.--
Well, since "half-blood" seems to be anything that isn't pureblood or Muggle-born and since the system seems to follow most other cultures' distinctions of blood, a half-blood and a Muggle-born would produce another half-blood (i.e. anything that isn't Muggle-born or pureblooded), two half-bloods would produce a half-blood or a "pureblood" (probably depending on how far back the Muggles were in the half-blood's family tree), two Muggle-borns would produce a half-blood, a half-blood and a pureblood might produce a "pureblood" (again depending on how far back the Muggles were on the half-blood's side of the family), and a Muggle-born and a pureblood would produce a half-blood.
Anyway, James could easily be a half-blood with money, i.e. a "half-blood prince", and Harry would still be a half-blood as well. If one of James's parents was pureblooded and inherited a fortune, so would James. As for HBP being the working title of CoS, it was only as long as she thought she could thread the HBP plotline through.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 251 to 300)
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Tomoé - Apr 7, 2005 4:00 pm (#251 of 1448)
Back in business
It's pretty much how I understand it, Sarah, although I'm not sure weither two Muggle-borns would produce a halfblood or a Muggle-born.
The expressions 'pure-blood', 'half-blood' and 'Muggle-born' have been coined by people to whom these distinctions matter, and express their originators' prejudices. As far as somebody like Lucius Malfoy is concerned, for instance, a Muggle-born is as 'bad' as a Muggle. (jkrowling.com)
I really wouldn't pass them to be absolutely unfair and say the baby is muggle-born ...
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S.E. Jones - Apr 7, 2005 4:27 pm (#252 of 1448)
Let it snow!
A fair point, Tomoe.
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Czarina II - Apr 8, 2005 9:58 am (#253 of 1448)
Edited by Apr 8, 2005 9:59 am
I think the whole "blood status" hierarchy goes something like this:
Muggleborn = results from Muggle+Muggle or Muggleborn+Muggleborn
Halfblood = results from Muggle+Pureblood, Muggle+Halfblood, Muggleborn+Pureblood, Muggleborn+Halfblood, Halfblood+Halfblood (there doesn't seem to be a "Quarterblood" status mentioned in the series, which would simplify things somewhat)
Pureblood = results from Pureblood+Pureblood (any Muggle blood has been sufficiently diluted)
Halfbreeds = results from Wizard (of any blood status) + Non-human
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So Sirius - Apr 8, 2005 10:02 am (#254 of 1448)
After going through as many theories on here as I could, there were a couple I liked a lot and one that really stood out, which after giving thought too, I agree with. I think the discovery Harry made in COS is that the Malfoys have Voldemorts old things. Why would they have so much of Voldemorts old things? A lot of you say that Draco cannot be the half blood prince because he's full blooded. I disagree. Another discovery is when Hagrid says in COS that no Wizards alive today are full blooded, they're all half blood or less. Also, the Malfoys issues with anyone not pure of blood leads me to think JKR will use that against them. I think the chapter titled Dracos detour will be about this. I think he'll come to realize he's a half blood and rally with those he was once so angry at. So, my theory is that Draco will be the HBP.
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MoonRider - Apr 8, 2005 12:12 pm (#255 of 1448)
Very Sirius: Good post!
It made me think of something.....
What if Draco is named after his grandfather, for instance-----or, great-grandfather, for that matter-----and, "Draco's Detour" is his grandfather's detour-----say, over to a Muggle's house, one lonely evening.....
then, they took "whomever"-----let's say Lucius, for sake of argument-----to the grandfather's house to be raised as if his wife gave birth to him, because they certainly wouldn't want that "Muggle influence" on him-----then Draco would be a halfblood.
I think this "small" storyline would pass muster in a children's book-----JKR could make one simple statement about the grandfather/great grandfather having a "dalliance", ya know?
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 8, 2005 3:03 pm (#256 of 1448)
No one has yet mentioned adoption, I think...
Aurora xx
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Ginerva Potter - Apr 8, 2005 3:28 pm (#257 of 1448)
I think a half-blood and a half-blood would still produce a half-blood. The blood would still be diluted so to speak. I don't know that it matters, but I thought I'd throw it in.
Ginny
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So Sirius - Apr 8, 2005 4:08 pm (#258 of 1448)
Thank you very much Moonrider :-)
JKR has stated over and again that Harry is the story. This is his story and life. His struggles have really been, although his arch enemy is Voldemort, his struggles have been with Draco. Draco has been featured many times uttering statements about mudbloods and half-bloods, etc. It seems to me that although Voldemort will have to be defeated, this Half blood prince will be someone who will bring a moral to the story, i.e., Draco and hopefully help, in the end, defeat Voldemort with the troops. Anyway, that's my theory.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 8, 2005 5:18 pm (#259 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
JKR has already said that Draco will never come to the good side. So I highly doubt he'll discover he has a mixed-blood heritage.
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Tomoé - Apr 8, 2005 5:37 pm (#260 of 1448)
Back in business
JKR said this about pure-bloods, half-bloods and Muggle-borns:
I was chilled to see that the Nazis used precisely the same warped logic as the Death Eaters. A single Jewish grandparent 'polluted' the blood, according to their propaganda.
It seems half-blood and half-blood can't produce a pure-blood if one of the grand-parents is Muggle or Muggle-born. Which means Harry's child won't be pure-blood, but maybe his grand-children could be.
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So Sirius - Apr 8, 2005 6:20 pm (#261 of 1448)
Did she say that Gina? I didn't know that. He could still have mixed blood without going over to the good side. It alters my theory a bit, sure, but I still say there's a chance he could be less full blooded than he thinks he is. I really couldn't decide between him and Snape for the Half-blood prince, but like I said, after going through theories and contemplating things, that's where I concluded. We'll all soon find out.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 8, 2005 6:58 pm (#262 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Yep, she said it.
We'll soon find out who is the HbP...but not soon enough!!!
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Tomoé - Apr 8, 2005 6:59 pm (#263 of 1448)
Back in business
I remember JKR did say Draco won't be redeem, but I can't find the quote. Here's the closest thing I found:
hermione_rose_2000 asks: Hello Ms. Rowling, I am a big fan of the Harry Potter books. My name is Katherine Emily Rose and I am 11. Is it true that Harry and Draco will have to get together and fight evil?
jkrowling_bn: Don't believe everything you read on the net!
jkrowling_bn: I saw that rumour too... but it is just a rumour (Barnes and Noble & Yahoo! chat , 20 October, 2000)
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I Am Used Vlad - Apr 8, 2005 8:31 pm (#264 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Those are the only quotes I've seen on the subject. I don't think Draco will ever become a decent person, but wouldn't be surprised if he becomes anti-Voldemort if the Dark Lord causes the untimely demise of one or both of his parents.
If it is discovered that Draco is half-blood, I think it would cause other Slytherins to reevaluate their world view. It would be the catalyst for the unification of the Houses.
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Suspero - Apr 8, 2005 8:37 pm (#265 of 1448)
Professor
Well, Zowie! Reading these posts is nearly as much fun as reading the books! Shazam! Some breathtaking speculation going on here! Who needs "spirits" for stimulation? Not when you can read conversation like this!
The theory "Very Sirius" (I wish I had thought of that moniker...) proposed about Draco Malfoy reminds me of something we say around our house about certain very doctrinaire judgmental types: They often preach against their own hidden faults. Wouldn't it be a fabulous irony if Malfoy was indeed "half-blood"? If Sirius, who has now passed on, was the last "pure-blood" of them all? By golly, such conjecture makes the head swim.
I also appreciate what "Very Sirius" had to say about the story being about Harry. But that can be applied in the same way as Charles Dickens' opening line to "David Copperfield" or the narrator of Daphne DuMaurier's "Rebecca" -- yes, they are the principal characters and could be said to be the "heroes" and catalysts of their stories but to say that the saga was strictly about them would be the most pedantic of interpretations. Already the Harry Potter stories have revealed the saga of the Weasleys, of the Blacks, of Lupin, etc., etc., and the unfolding epic of the wizarding world and how it interacts (or doesn't) with the Muggle realm.
I started thinking, very siriusly (heh, heh), about this whole half-blood and Muggle thing and I'm beginning to wonder if that borderline isn't a major front in the epic battle? Could it be that the half-blood prince is indeed an overlooked Muggle and the separation of all these castes and classes must finally come to an end so that these worlds can co-exist and irradicate these final barriers and prejudices?
Gee, I gotta go now and splash cold water on my face...
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Jo S - Apr 9, 2005 12:08 am (#266 of 1448)
Just because Harry and Draco wont get together to fight evil, doesnt mean that Draco will not be redeemed. Lets face it Snape and Sirius arent exactly bosom buddies, however we know that Snape has some how redeemed himself. I dont expect that Draco and Harry will ever like each other, but I do think its possible that Draco may come over to the "good side".
On a separate note.... has it been stated that the Half-Blood Prince is infact a half blood. Is it possible that he is not a half blood, but a full blood who happens to have the title of "half blood". Eg the Duke of Edinburgh doesnt live in Edinburgh, wasnt born there, nor does he own anything there. It is an aristocratic title rather than a description. Perhaps the Half-Blood prince could be similar. In which case, if the title was bestowed on Draco, it would be irrelevant as to what his actual "blood makeup" is. All
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wynnleaf - Apr 9, 2005 6:23 am (#267 of 1448)
Hi, I'm mainly a lurker, although I did post on this thread a couple of weeks ago. I've seen a number of people mention the pillar in the illustration as the "pillar of Storgé." Why do you think that's what it is? Also, I know there was once a lot of speculation about "The pillar of Storgé" being a possible name for the 6th book. Where did that come from? In other words, where did anyone ever hear about this in the first place and what is it?
Thanks. Wynnleaf
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Ladybug220 - Apr 9, 2005 6:46 am (#268 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Apr 9, 2005 6:47 am
Wynnleaf,
There was a rumor that the sixth book was going to be called Harry Potter and the Pillar of Storge. That was around May or June of last year if I remember correctly. The mentions here in this thread have been a joke as we try to figure out what the American cover represents.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 9, 2005 8:26 am (#269 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh, and let's not forget JKR debunked the Storgé rumour on her website. She made light of it too. A little part of me suspects Grand Pre used the joke as well in placing the pensieve from the cover on a pillar.
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GryffEndora - Apr 9, 2005 9:54 am (#270 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Jo S - On a separate note.... has it been stated that the Half-Blood Prince is in fact a half blood. Is it possible that he is not a half blood, but a full blood who happens to have the title of "half blood". Eg the Duke of Edinburgh doesn't live in Edinburgh, wasn't born there, nor does he own anything there. It is an aristocratic title rather than a description. Perhaps the Half-Blood prince could be similar. In which case, if the title was bestowed on Draco, it would be irrelevant as to what his actual "blood makeup" is. All
I believe we've discussed this before. Someone, I can't find the exact post, looked at the title in French & I think Italian and they both read 'Harry Potter and the Prince who was a Half-Blood' I believe. What I remember from the discussion is that we decided the HBP is a Half-Blood but not necessarily a real prince.
Please correct me if I got any of this wrong.
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So Sirius - Apr 9, 2005 10:39 am (#271 of 1448)
Suspero, thank you very much for your post and compliments. I think there's a way to change your name on here and I'd be more than glad to give this name to you, if you'd like it. :-)
Regarding what I said about the story being about Harry; I meant that Draco won't be the focus of the story, but like you said, generally when somebody is so full of hate and venom regarding something, it's because they're fearful of it or possess those qualities within themselves and it's their way of lashing out and being defensive about their own issues, or it's what they've been taught by a parent who possesses those issues. I think it's going to be someone who is as you said, "ironic" like Draco, or even Snape. Since Draco is the one mentioned in the chapter title, I chose him. I like many ideas, ranging from the Weasleys and their royal names to this new character described as a lion to Dumbledore. I understand why so many here disagree with those previously not described as half-bloods, but like I said before, Hagrid states in the book and movie that there aren't any wizards alive today that are truly pure blooded. So, as much as Draco won't be the focus of the story, Harry will, it will be the issue of the Mudblood/Pureblood rage that seems to fuel Voldemorts and his followers and their children's passion that might be the focus of story with Harry at the helm and Draco as the HBP.
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 9, 2005 11:39 am (#272 of 1448)
Hi, Very Sirius,
I am concerned about one very important piece of evidence, namely the Black family tapistry. The protrait of Mrs. Black, Sirius's direct testimony, Kreacher, 12 Grimmauld Place and Bella LaStrange are sufficient evidence for us to conclude that the Black family considers all persons who are NOT pure-bloods to be a waste of skin. In every instance in which a Black family member strayed in the slightest from this strict dogma, they were stricken from the tapestry. This practice not only included strays like Sirius and persons who married outside of their blood lines, like the Tonk's, but also to pure-bloods that did not live up to the strictures of the code. I speak of the Weasleys as a primary example.
We know from Sirius' testimony on the subject, that both Arthur Weasley and Molly Prewett are pure bloods. Sirius describes both of them as being his cousins, and he deliberately points out to Harry that they are not on the Tapestry. Kreacher and Mrs. Black's portrait explain this by naming them Blood Traitors. It would seem from the bitterness of their words that being a Blood Traitor is something as bad as marrying a Muggle!
However, Narcissa Black's name remains on the tapestry. If she had strayed one iota from the family dogma, her name would have been stricken. Therefore, she did not. She did marry a pure-blood who shares the Black family's hatred and contempt for all non-Pure-Bloods.
Lucius Malfoy's name is emblazoned beside Narcissa's. To be upon this tapestry is to be a pure-blood, by definition. Further, Lucius had to think and feel and act like a Black in order to marry Narcissa and to become a part of the Black family tree. Therefore, Lucius Malfoy is a pure-blood and shares all the hatred and contempt characteristice of the Black family.
Draco Malfoy is shown to be their son. In such a genealogical tree, if a person were adopted, it would be annotated within the tree. Since there is no such annotation, then Draco is the legitimate son by birth of Narcissa and Lucius, both of whom are both pure-bloods. Since Draco shares his family's prejudices towards persons who are not Pure-Bloods then his name was not wiped off the tapestry.
The testimony of the Black family tapestry is sufficient to determine that the Malfoys are pure-bloods, within the strictest definitions both of inheritance and of behavior. Until and unless we can determine that the evidence of the tapestry is somehow perjured, then Draco can NOT be the half-blood prince.
Thanks,
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I Am Used Vlad - Apr 9, 2005 11:41 am (#273 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Very Sirius, while in full agreement with you about Draco being the HBP, I don't think we will find it out in Draco's Detour. If everyone learns the truth in chapter 6, the majority of the book would be about how people react to this news. That would be fairly boring reading, IMO. I think, now that everyone knows that Voldemort is back, there will be escalating tension between Harry's group and Draco's pure-blood fanatics throughout most of the book, and the true nature of his ancestry won't be revealed to close to the end.
Edit: Joanne, the Malfoys being on the tapesty is not evidence that they are pure-bloods. It merely proves that Mrs. Black thought they were.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 9, 2005 12:25 pm (#274 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Someone on my Snape group posted this, regarding 2nd chapters:
--------
Here are the second chapters from the previous books:
SS: The Vanishing Glass
CS: Dobby's Warning (note the apostrophe)
POA: Aunt Marge's Big Mistake
GOF: The Scar
OP: A Peck of Owls
These chapters all seem to deal with Harry performing magic (intentionally or not) at or with the Dursley's and they generally contain the groundwork and clues for the rest of the story.
------
With that said, we know this will be Harry's 'shortest stay ever' at the Dursleys. So it's got me thinking more and more that Spinners End is a place where Harry performs some kind of magic, and learns something crucial. Perhaps he discovers he has a new power while being coached by DD? Or perhaps he'll drop into that pensieve? Who knows.
I still think Draco's Detour will have to do with Harry following Draco somewhere to something neither of them ought to see. Almost like a dejá vu of Snape being duped to see Lupin in werewolf form by Sirius. And it's got nothing to do with Draco's pureblood status changing. I agree with Used Vlad. We need something to turn the story, keep it going. Not 20+ chapters of reaction. Though I would not be surprised if there is fallout from the Death Eaters regarding the Dark Lord's identity/blood status.
98 days!!!! Merlin help us.
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So Sirius - Apr 9, 2005 12:44 pm (#275 of 1448)
Hi Joanne, You've raised very valid points. My only defense to my theory is that those not on the tapestry aren't on there because they were blood traitors, as you stated. To me, Mrs. Blacks idea of a blood traitor is someone who isn't on the side of the dark force. Sirius continued to be a full blood until his death but was taken off the tapestry because his agenda was unlike hers, same with the Weasleys, as they are full blooded but not on the tapestry because they didn't join the forces of evil. So, it's entirely possible that she kept names on there, regardless of their blood content, because their agendas were one in the same.
Vlad, I hear what you're saying, but I look at it a bit differently. There will be a full on war being waged. At this point, new issues will arise and sides will be taken and changed and I see that once the truth is learned, it sparks issues that result in the story being told starting from that chapter and moving on through book 7. I hear what you're all saying though. It's nice to have a place to work these things out.
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GryffEndora - Apr 9, 2005 12:44 pm (#276 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Ok, I think I'm hatching a theory so stick with me.
Let's say there is a person in the Wizarding World who holds the title of Half-Blood Prince and when that person dies the Wizarding World must find/choose another. The title is not heridatary, and maybe the last HBP didn't even have an heir so the point is moot. So, HBP dies and now the Wizarding World needs a new HBP. Maybe there is some magical way of selecting the next HBP like the GoF and all potential HBPs enter the competition to gain the title. This is tricky however because LV and his DEs are back and they will use the selection process to hunt down and kill potential HBPs. I first started thinking this when I saw the new advertising with "Who is the Half Blood Prince?" Perhaps that is a question that is asked in the book.
For example: . . . Who will be the (next) Half Blood Prince? Find out on Boxing Day as the entire Wizarding World awaits the results with us live on the WWN. Interested in becoming the HBP? Just drop your name in the Kettle of Knackledirk on the bar at the Leaky Cauldron, London no later than Christmas Eve . . . But be careful, there could be Death Eater watching the kettle to find half bloods and they might even follow you home and destroy your family. But what's life with out a little risk? Apply to be the Half Blood Prince today!
It seems to me that speculation has been either this person has been the HBP for some time and Harry is just becoming aware of it now or that the person didn't even necessarily know they were the HBP and now that the discovery has been made they become important. I'm wondering if the search for the HBP will be important.
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Mrdrama - Apr 9, 2005 1:11 pm (#277 of 1448)
-Gina- Thank you for your post, I can't believe that I hadn't made the link between the chapter titles and the US cover. Now my mind is spinning about possibilities with Harry looking in at Spinners End, seeing a trial concerning Felix, and maybe seeing an unexpected memory of someone concerning Draco.
Must go get a drink to organize thoughts. . . .
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Suspero - Apr 9, 2005 1:53 pm (#278 of 1448)
Professor
I just had to get on here and tell "Tomoe" how much I love the winking neo-Classical picture. Where can I get one? Certainly seems in the spirit of things!
Someone has mentioned the dreaded "N" word here before (Nazis) and I couldn't help thinking of Goebbels and Ghoering in all this discussion. Pure blood nobility and the Aryan race were important to those guys before World War I even started. Their issues definitely would not rest in the years between the wars and resurfaced with vengeance in WWII. Could it be that the wars of the wizarding world reflect in many ways the same undercurrents and dynamics as those wars? Are Voldemort's followers, the Death Eaters, in many ways like the bitter, frustrated German elite of the early 20th century? If so, then the identity of the HBP might be better discovered along lines that propel "the war story".
Wow, Tomoe, I just have to say it again that I love that picture>
By the way, why are birthdates, astrology and the zodiac so important to these Harry Potter books? Yet another way to give it a classical foundation, or just the relationship with the "occult"? Revelations of character? If they are significant then I have 2 questions: 1- Why so much emphasis on Harry's birthday in July? What does that mean? 2- Were any of the characters born in July?
My September daughter is uncannily like Hermione Granger, and Harry's bad temper reminds me of another late July man I know.
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MoonRider - Apr 9, 2005 1:59 pm (#279 of 1448)
Suspero: "Were any of the characters born in July?"
Neville's birthday is July 30th.
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GryffEndora - Apr 9, 2005 2:02 pm (#280 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Suspero - I believe Neville's birthday is July 30th
edit: cross posted with MoonRider
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Detail Seeker - Apr 9, 2005 2:11 pm (#281 of 1448)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Suspero, when drawing analogies to history, I would very much appreciate it, if you had your facts correct. The First World War had totally different origins than those you quoted. So the analogy you draw is misleading. Thank you
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Suspero - Apr 9, 2005 2:27 pm (#282 of 1448)
Professor
I mispelled a name, too.
You know, I also goofed in asking if "any of the characters were born in July", I meant to ask if there were any born in January?
I can't possibly begin to claim knowledge of the origins of any war, but I would think it safe to say that a desire for supremacy on the world stage, racial and ethnic bigotry, and frustrated ambition were at the roots of both World Wars I and II, and therefore my analogy stands.
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Catherine - Apr 9, 2005 2:49 pm (#283 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Suspero, Snape was born in January. I hope that helps.
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 9, 2005 3:07 pm (#284 of 1448)
It has to be remembered also that in the Muggle world, the chief pureblood - Hitler - was himself a halfblood, having a Jewish Grandfather. I think Jo has tried to create some parallels with the WW and the MW having the Dark Wizard Grindelwald defeated in 1945 by the great and good Dumbledore.
Aurora xx
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MoonRider - Apr 9, 2005 6:31 pm (#285 of 1448)
Suspero: ".....I meant to ask if there were any born in January?"
Yes! To add to Catherine's post: January 9th.
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Veritaserum - Apr 9, 2005 10:07 pm (#286 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Can I just admit that until today I had never realized what a funny word "Muggle" is! It's like when you've known a word your whole life but never really think about it, and then you stare at it for awhile and then it looks really weird.
Also, I wasn't here for the release of OOP, so I was wondering if there will be some kind of voting or tallying of who people think the HBP is and who will die, and then we see who all was right.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 9, 2005 10:24 pm (#287 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Veritaserum, I do not speak for the forum specifically. But it seems to me there are too many votes/theories/ideas in a variety of threads to practically do a tallying. When OOtP was released, we did not do that. But there were plenty of us making mental notes of things we'd read and discussed here on the forum!
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Chemyst - Apr 10, 2005 5:36 am (#288 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Veritaserum, while not a vote, there is, of course, an entire thread on who might die: "Who will die in books 6/7?" #1
...and you could make a formal suggestion for "Who is the HBP?" as a vote for the vote thread. I think that would be a great question for June or early July.
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Winky Woo - Apr 10, 2005 5:45 am (#289 of 1448)
My favourite place in the world, the English Lake District
I wasn't a forum member when the other books came out, and I am wondering whether there will be a thread for those who are reading it as they go along, or just those who have read it completely?
I am so excited! It would great fun to be able to squeal or gasp on-line with others! Eg I REALLY didn't see that coming!WOW! etc and speculate after each chapter.
Actually, on reflection I can't imagine that I will be able to put the book down long enough to come on the forum to post! and I guess there would be a huge risk of spoiler info.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 10, 2005 7:18 am (#290 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
The discussion concerning the blood lines has been very interesting. I agree with the comment concerning the Black's tapestry that Ms. Black removes anyone who doesn't agree with her. She might not have removed the Malfroy's because she didn't know about there "actual" bloodline. After all Voldermort has apparently kept the fact that he is a half blood fairly well hidden. Heck, even Lucius may not know the "truth" about his families past.
Maybe this is what Draco finds out in his detour. But I think that whatever the detour is it won't alter his atitude.
Mikie
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Gerald Costales - Apr 10, 2005 7:26 am (#291 of 1448)
Just posted this in the Mirrors thread (post #196). Thought it might fit here. Enjoy. ;-) GC
"Sirius' two-way mirror may possibly appear in book 6. But, I've always thought the Mirror of Erised would also reappear in either Book 6 or 7.
I know this has been asked before, but with Sirius' death - What would Harry's deepest desire be after his Godfather's dead? Now, Harry has had a Summer to mull the death of Sirius and possibly come to terms with it. But looking at how Cho handled Cedric's death, one can't be too sure how Harry will handle Sirius's death.
If Harry had some communication with Dumbledore or more probably Lupin, Harry may have dealt better with Sirius's death than Cho. But, I doubt Harry would have had much contact with either Dumbledore or Lupin our this last Summer. And both Ron and Hermione, I feel, neither have the experience to help Harry through his grief. And you can forget about the Dursleys helping Harry deal with Sirius' death.
Harry seemed desperate to see or talk to Sirius one more time (closure) at the end of Book 5. So, either the two-way Mirrors or the Mirror of Erised (my personal gut feeling) will reappear as the means for Harry to contact Sirius. (Don't even think of Harry going to that fraud Trelawney for a psychic reading.)
The now public reappearance of Voldermort and the escaped DE's (especially Bella) should be the major concern of the new Minister of Magic. I think with Fudge hopefully gone that the new Minister will have better ties to Dumbledore. And Dumbledore maybe too busy helping the new Minister to advise Harry in September.
That would mean either Lupin or maybe the "Half-Blood Prince" should be Harry's new mentor. Harry being mentored by the HBP may not be that farfetched. Especially if the HBP is the new DADA teacher. (Hopefully Lupin will reappear as the DADA teacher and mentor Harry again. But, I seriously doubt that would happen again.)
I think I've lit a big dung bomb. Waiting for reactions with bated breath." ;-) GC
PS Sorry, this post is off topic. But, I think this post should produce some interesting reactions. ;-) GC
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 10, 2005 7:36 am (#292 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
GC since as JKR states book 6 HBP starts off exactly where OotP ends then I doubt if we can assume that Harry has had much time to come to terms with Sirius's death. I believe that any grieving that Harry feels must be done will have to be done on the run during the summer.
I do agree with you that he(Harry)will be able to handle his loss alot better than Cho handled the loss of Cedric.
I like your post's and would never send a dung bomb as long as we stay off the subject of the snitch.
Mikie
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Ydnam96 - Apr 10, 2005 7:55 am (#293 of 1448)
Gerald. I would love it if the DADA teacher were indeed Lupin again. I have to wonder, given the "new" state of the WW if Hogwart's curriculum will have some differences?
And just to note for posterity, I think that the Half Blood Prince is a person/character from history, and that Harry will learn about him (possible Godric) but he will not actually take a physical form in the book. It is just my opinion of course
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Gerald Costales - Apr 10, 2005 10:55 am (#294 of 1448)
I think that the Half Blood Prince is a person/character from history, and that Harry will learn about him (possible Godric) but he will not actually take a physical form in the book. It is just my opinion of course " Ydnam96
I would have agreed with you about Godric being the HBP earlier. But, there was the excerpt from JKR website about that mysterious lion-like character. And now I'm not so sure. (Only book 6 can settle that speculation.)
"I like your post's and would never send a dung bomb as long as we stay off the subject of the snitch." Mikie
Snitch what Snitch?!?! Now, SNEAK cough*Marietta*cough that's another matter!!!!
It would be nice to see Lupin back as the DADA teacher. But, I doubt it will happen. If I were voting on HBP candidates today. The list would not have Draco, Lucius, Neville, Ron (or any other Weasleys), James, Voldermort, Harry etc. With the exceptions of Voldermort and Harry, those listed are Pure Bloods and are alive except James.
My short list for the HBP is -
. . . . . . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor - Half-Blood - ? . . .Prince - ?
. . . . . . . . . . 2. Remus Lupin .- Half-Blood - YES . . . Prince - ?
. . . . . . . . . . 3. Dean Thomas - Half-Blood - YES . . . Prince - ?
I believe the lion-like character in the excerpt from HBP is Godric Gryffindor or possibly the next DADA teacher. (The mascot for Gryffindor is a Lion, etc.) Also, there is the possibility of someone new and as of yet unknown or some other minor or briefly mentioned or seen character. ;-) GC
PS As to Grindelwald, the Grindelwald connection is to Dumbledore - the one who defeated this Dark Wizard, and possibly Voldermort - Could Grindelwald have trained Voldermort to have become a Dark Wizard? There can only be one Sith Lord, only One. Woops!!! Am I Bad! Wrong story. ;-) GC
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 10, 2005 3:50 pm (#295 of 1448)
Apart from the obvious questions I want to know what the Sorting Hat will sing this year - it's let a few things slip by and few of us have taken as much notice as Hermione...
Aurora xx
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Chemyst - Apr 10, 2005 5:05 pm (#296 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Ydnam, I tend to agree that there is a good chance that the Half-Blood Prince is a person/character from history. That was my initial thought before I read everyone else's theories and speculations. JKR has created a lot of ways to reveal past events & people: the Pensieve, portraits, diaries, dreams, Binn's lectures, etc. And nothing prevents her from adding more magical history-revealing artifacts. I think it would be a kicker though if the HBP was the director of the Department of Mysteries. Other than something totally cool like that, I hope the HBP is historical.
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Veritaserum - Apr 10, 2005 5:56 pm (#297 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Ooh, in charge of the Department of Mysteries, I like that one! I am pretty darn sure that the DoM will have some significance again. Good thinking, Chemyst!
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kabloink! - Apr 11, 2005 10:22 am (#298 of 1448)
Optician's Assistant
Going back several posts, the parallels being drawn between WWII and the war in the wizarding world make a lot of sense. Given that JKR has commented on the fact that pure bloods measure their purity much the way Nazis measured theirs gives me the idea that no one on that tapestry is in any way, shape, or form half blood or less. I think Hagrid's statement was more of a sweeping statement than necessarily an detailed accurate one. MOST wizarding families aren't pureblood anymore, but IMO, there have to be some or maybe even just one that consists of all the pure-pure blood families that have intermarried.
Also, about WWI. While antiSemitism goes back centuries, if not millenia (and in all parts of the world), it wasn't a factor in WWI. WWI had a lot more to do with ill thought out alliances and agreements on the part of all nations that ended up immediately involved. Well, that's my historical analysis in its barest simplest form.
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Sconie Girl - Apr 11, 2005 11:27 am (#299 of 1448)
To throw in my 2 knuts... WWI came out of the Imperialism, Militarism, Alliances, and Propaganda (IMAP) from the end of the 1800's right up to 1914.
You can look at the tie ins w/ VWI that Voldy and followers probably had designs on controlling more than just Britain and certainly were making "alliances" some of the forced with the Imperio Curse. And even propaganda that pure bloods are better than other wizards.
But with all the discussion about "pure blood" its easier to make connections to WWII and the Nazi's takeover.
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septentrion - Apr 11, 2005 11:49 am (#300 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Causes of WWI are still a cause of debate amongst historians, but racism is not amongst that causes. On the other hand, racism is nearly the heart of the problem, if not the heart itself, for WWII, and it certainly relates to the concept of blood-purity in the Wizarding World wether Jo intended that relation or not.
About who the half-blood prince may be, I've read with interest all the theories but I still think it's a historical character. Maybe he was the founder of the Order of the Phoenix ? Do we know if DD founded the Order or if the Order already existed before ? Perhaps the half-blood and muggleborn have already need some special protection in the past.
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Back in business
It's pretty much how I understand it, Sarah, although I'm not sure weither two Muggle-borns would produce a halfblood or a Muggle-born.
The expressions 'pure-blood', 'half-blood' and 'Muggle-born' have been coined by people to whom these distinctions matter, and express their originators' prejudices. As far as somebody like Lucius Malfoy is concerned, for instance, a Muggle-born is as 'bad' as a Muggle. (jkrowling.com)
I really wouldn't pass them to be absolutely unfair and say the baby is muggle-born ...
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S.E. Jones - Apr 7, 2005 4:27 pm (#252 of 1448)
Let it snow!
A fair point, Tomoe.
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Czarina II - Apr 8, 2005 9:58 am (#253 of 1448)
Edited by Apr 8, 2005 9:59 am
I think the whole "blood status" hierarchy goes something like this:
Muggleborn = results from Muggle+Muggle or Muggleborn+Muggleborn
Halfblood = results from Muggle+Pureblood, Muggle+Halfblood, Muggleborn+Pureblood, Muggleborn+Halfblood, Halfblood+Halfblood (there doesn't seem to be a "Quarterblood" status mentioned in the series, which would simplify things somewhat)
Pureblood = results from Pureblood+Pureblood (any Muggle blood has been sufficiently diluted)
Halfbreeds = results from Wizard (of any blood status) + Non-human
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So Sirius - Apr 8, 2005 10:02 am (#254 of 1448)
After going through as many theories on here as I could, there were a couple I liked a lot and one that really stood out, which after giving thought too, I agree with. I think the discovery Harry made in COS is that the Malfoys have Voldemorts old things. Why would they have so much of Voldemorts old things? A lot of you say that Draco cannot be the half blood prince because he's full blooded. I disagree. Another discovery is when Hagrid says in COS that no Wizards alive today are full blooded, they're all half blood or less. Also, the Malfoys issues with anyone not pure of blood leads me to think JKR will use that against them. I think the chapter titled Dracos detour will be about this. I think he'll come to realize he's a half blood and rally with those he was once so angry at. So, my theory is that Draco will be the HBP.
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MoonRider - Apr 8, 2005 12:12 pm (#255 of 1448)
Very Sirius: Good post!
It made me think of something.....
What if Draco is named after his grandfather, for instance-----or, great-grandfather, for that matter-----and, "Draco's Detour" is his grandfather's detour-----say, over to a Muggle's house, one lonely evening.....
then, they took "whomever"-----let's say Lucius, for sake of argument-----to the grandfather's house to be raised as if his wife gave birth to him, because they certainly wouldn't want that "Muggle influence" on him-----then Draco would be a halfblood.
I think this "small" storyline would pass muster in a children's book-----JKR could make one simple statement about the grandfather/great grandfather having a "dalliance", ya know?
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 8, 2005 3:03 pm (#256 of 1448)
No one has yet mentioned adoption, I think...
Aurora xx
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Ginerva Potter - Apr 8, 2005 3:28 pm (#257 of 1448)
I think a half-blood and a half-blood would still produce a half-blood. The blood would still be diluted so to speak. I don't know that it matters, but I thought I'd throw it in.
Ginny
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So Sirius - Apr 8, 2005 4:08 pm (#258 of 1448)
Thank you very much Moonrider :-)
JKR has stated over and again that Harry is the story. This is his story and life. His struggles have really been, although his arch enemy is Voldemort, his struggles have been with Draco. Draco has been featured many times uttering statements about mudbloods and half-bloods, etc. It seems to me that although Voldemort will have to be defeated, this Half blood prince will be someone who will bring a moral to the story, i.e., Draco and hopefully help, in the end, defeat Voldemort with the troops. Anyway, that's my theory.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 8, 2005 5:18 pm (#259 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
JKR has already said that Draco will never come to the good side. So I highly doubt he'll discover he has a mixed-blood heritage.
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Tomoé - Apr 8, 2005 5:37 pm (#260 of 1448)
Back in business
JKR said this about pure-bloods, half-bloods and Muggle-borns:
I was chilled to see that the Nazis used precisely the same warped logic as the Death Eaters. A single Jewish grandparent 'polluted' the blood, according to their propaganda.
It seems half-blood and half-blood can't produce a pure-blood if one of the grand-parents is Muggle or Muggle-born. Which means Harry's child won't be pure-blood, but maybe his grand-children could be.
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So Sirius - Apr 8, 2005 6:20 pm (#261 of 1448)
Did she say that Gina? I didn't know that. He could still have mixed blood without going over to the good side. It alters my theory a bit, sure, but I still say there's a chance he could be less full blooded than he thinks he is. I really couldn't decide between him and Snape for the Half-blood prince, but like I said, after going through theories and contemplating things, that's where I concluded. We'll all soon find out.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 8, 2005 6:58 pm (#262 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Yep, she said it.
We'll soon find out who is the HbP...but not soon enough!!!
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Tomoé - Apr 8, 2005 6:59 pm (#263 of 1448)
Back in business
I remember JKR did say Draco won't be redeem, but I can't find the quote. Here's the closest thing I found:
hermione_rose_2000 asks: Hello Ms. Rowling, I am a big fan of the Harry Potter books. My name is Katherine Emily Rose and I am 11. Is it true that Harry and Draco will have to get together and fight evil?
jkrowling_bn: Don't believe everything you read on the net!
jkrowling_bn: I saw that rumour too... but it is just a rumour (Barnes and Noble & Yahoo! chat , 20 October, 2000)
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I Am Used Vlad - Apr 8, 2005 8:31 pm (#264 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Those are the only quotes I've seen on the subject. I don't think Draco will ever become a decent person, but wouldn't be surprised if he becomes anti-Voldemort if the Dark Lord causes the untimely demise of one or both of his parents.
If it is discovered that Draco is half-blood, I think it would cause other Slytherins to reevaluate their world view. It would be the catalyst for the unification of the Houses.
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Suspero - Apr 8, 2005 8:37 pm (#265 of 1448)
Professor
Well, Zowie! Reading these posts is nearly as much fun as reading the books! Shazam! Some breathtaking speculation going on here! Who needs "spirits" for stimulation? Not when you can read conversation like this!
The theory "Very Sirius" (I wish I had thought of that moniker...) proposed about Draco Malfoy reminds me of something we say around our house about certain very doctrinaire judgmental types: They often preach against their own hidden faults. Wouldn't it be a fabulous irony if Malfoy was indeed "half-blood"? If Sirius, who has now passed on, was the last "pure-blood" of them all? By golly, such conjecture makes the head swim.
I also appreciate what "Very Sirius" had to say about the story being about Harry. But that can be applied in the same way as Charles Dickens' opening line to "David Copperfield" or the narrator of Daphne DuMaurier's "Rebecca" -- yes, they are the principal characters and could be said to be the "heroes" and catalysts of their stories but to say that the saga was strictly about them would be the most pedantic of interpretations. Already the Harry Potter stories have revealed the saga of the Weasleys, of the Blacks, of Lupin, etc., etc., and the unfolding epic of the wizarding world and how it interacts (or doesn't) with the Muggle realm.
I started thinking, very siriusly (heh, heh), about this whole half-blood and Muggle thing and I'm beginning to wonder if that borderline isn't a major front in the epic battle? Could it be that the half-blood prince is indeed an overlooked Muggle and the separation of all these castes and classes must finally come to an end so that these worlds can co-exist and irradicate these final barriers and prejudices?
Gee, I gotta go now and splash cold water on my face...
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Jo S - Apr 9, 2005 12:08 am (#266 of 1448)
Just because Harry and Draco wont get together to fight evil, doesnt mean that Draco will not be redeemed. Lets face it Snape and Sirius arent exactly bosom buddies, however we know that Snape has some how redeemed himself. I dont expect that Draco and Harry will ever like each other, but I do think its possible that Draco may come over to the "good side".
On a separate note.... has it been stated that the Half-Blood Prince is infact a half blood. Is it possible that he is not a half blood, but a full blood who happens to have the title of "half blood". Eg the Duke of Edinburgh doesnt live in Edinburgh, wasnt born there, nor does he own anything there. It is an aristocratic title rather than a description. Perhaps the Half-Blood prince could be similar. In which case, if the title was bestowed on Draco, it would be irrelevant as to what his actual "blood makeup" is. All
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wynnleaf - Apr 9, 2005 6:23 am (#267 of 1448)
Hi, I'm mainly a lurker, although I did post on this thread a couple of weeks ago. I've seen a number of people mention the pillar in the illustration as the "pillar of Storgé." Why do you think that's what it is? Also, I know there was once a lot of speculation about "The pillar of Storgé" being a possible name for the 6th book. Where did that come from? In other words, where did anyone ever hear about this in the first place and what is it?
Thanks. Wynnleaf
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Ladybug220 - Apr 9, 2005 6:46 am (#268 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Edited by Apr 9, 2005 6:47 am
Wynnleaf,
There was a rumor that the sixth book was going to be called Harry Potter and the Pillar of Storge. That was around May or June of last year if I remember correctly. The mentions here in this thread have been a joke as we try to figure out what the American cover represents.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 9, 2005 8:26 am (#269 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Oh, and let's not forget JKR debunked the Storgé rumour on her website. She made light of it too. A little part of me suspects Grand Pre used the joke as well in placing the pensieve from the cover on a pillar.
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GryffEndora - Apr 9, 2005 9:54 am (#270 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Jo S - On a separate note.... has it been stated that the Half-Blood Prince is in fact a half blood. Is it possible that he is not a half blood, but a full blood who happens to have the title of "half blood". Eg the Duke of Edinburgh doesn't live in Edinburgh, wasn't born there, nor does he own anything there. It is an aristocratic title rather than a description. Perhaps the Half-Blood prince could be similar. In which case, if the title was bestowed on Draco, it would be irrelevant as to what his actual "blood makeup" is. All
I believe we've discussed this before. Someone, I can't find the exact post, looked at the title in French & I think Italian and they both read 'Harry Potter and the Prince who was a Half-Blood' I believe. What I remember from the discussion is that we decided the HBP is a Half-Blood but not necessarily a real prince.
Please correct me if I got any of this wrong.
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So Sirius - Apr 9, 2005 10:39 am (#271 of 1448)
Suspero, thank you very much for your post and compliments. I think there's a way to change your name on here and I'd be more than glad to give this name to you, if you'd like it. :-)
Regarding what I said about the story being about Harry; I meant that Draco won't be the focus of the story, but like you said, generally when somebody is so full of hate and venom regarding something, it's because they're fearful of it or possess those qualities within themselves and it's their way of lashing out and being defensive about their own issues, or it's what they've been taught by a parent who possesses those issues. I think it's going to be someone who is as you said, "ironic" like Draco, or even Snape. Since Draco is the one mentioned in the chapter title, I chose him. I like many ideas, ranging from the Weasleys and their royal names to this new character described as a lion to Dumbledore. I understand why so many here disagree with those previously not described as half-bloods, but like I said before, Hagrid states in the book and movie that there aren't any wizards alive today that are truly pure blooded. So, as much as Draco won't be the focus of the story, Harry will, it will be the issue of the Mudblood/Pureblood rage that seems to fuel Voldemorts and his followers and their children's passion that might be the focus of story with Harry at the helm and Draco as the HBP.
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Joanne R. Reid - Apr 9, 2005 11:39 am (#272 of 1448)
Hi, Very Sirius,
I am concerned about one very important piece of evidence, namely the Black family tapistry. The protrait of Mrs. Black, Sirius's direct testimony, Kreacher, 12 Grimmauld Place and Bella LaStrange are sufficient evidence for us to conclude that the Black family considers all persons who are NOT pure-bloods to be a waste of skin. In every instance in which a Black family member strayed in the slightest from this strict dogma, they were stricken from the tapestry. This practice not only included strays like Sirius and persons who married outside of their blood lines, like the Tonk's, but also to pure-bloods that did not live up to the strictures of the code. I speak of the Weasleys as a primary example.
We know from Sirius' testimony on the subject, that both Arthur Weasley and Molly Prewett are pure bloods. Sirius describes both of them as being his cousins, and he deliberately points out to Harry that they are not on the Tapestry. Kreacher and Mrs. Black's portrait explain this by naming them Blood Traitors. It would seem from the bitterness of their words that being a Blood Traitor is something as bad as marrying a Muggle!
However, Narcissa Black's name remains on the tapestry. If she had strayed one iota from the family dogma, her name would have been stricken. Therefore, she did not. She did marry a pure-blood who shares the Black family's hatred and contempt for all non-Pure-Bloods.
Lucius Malfoy's name is emblazoned beside Narcissa's. To be upon this tapestry is to be a pure-blood, by definition. Further, Lucius had to think and feel and act like a Black in order to marry Narcissa and to become a part of the Black family tree. Therefore, Lucius Malfoy is a pure-blood and shares all the hatred and contempt characteristice of the Black family.
Draco Malfoy is shown to be their son. In such a genealogical tree, if a person were adopted, it would be annotated within the tree. Since there is no such annotation, then Draco is the legitimate son by birth of Narcissa and Lucius, both of whom are both pure-bloods. Since Draco shares his family's prejudices towards persons who are not Pure-Bloods then his name was not wiped off the tapestry.
The testimony of the Black family tapestry is sufficient to determine that the Malfoys are pure-bloods, within the strictest definitions both of inheritance and of behavior. Until and unless we can determine that the evidence of the tapestry is somehow perjured, then Draco can NOT be the half-blood prince.
Thanks,
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I Am Used Vlad - Apr 9, 2005 11:41 am (#273 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Very Sirius, while in full agreement with you about Draco being the HBP, I don't think we will find it out in Draco's Detour. If everyone learns the truth in chapter 6, the majority of the book would be about how people react to this news. That would be fairly boring reading, IMO. I think, now that everyone knows that Voldemort is back, there will be escalating tension between Harry's group and Draco's pure-blood fanatics throughout most of the book, and the true nature of his ancestry won't be revealed to close to the end.
Edit: Joanne, the Malfoys being on the tapesty is not evidence that they are pure-bloods. It merely proves that Mrs. Black thought they were.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 9, 2005 12:25 pm (#274 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Someone on my Snape group posted this, regarding 2nd chapters:
--------
Here are the second chapters from the previous books:
SS: The Vanishing Glass
CS: Dobby's Warning (note the apostrophe)
POA: Aunt Marge's Big Mistake
GOF: The Scar
OP: A Peck of Owls
These chapters all seem to deal with Harry performing magic (intentionally or not) at or with the Dursley's and they generally contain the groundwork and clues for the rest of the story.
------
With that said, we know this will be Harry's 'shortest stay ever' at the Dursleys. So it's got me thinking more and more that Spinners End is a place where Harry performs some kind of magic, and learns something crucial. Perhaps he discovers he has a new power while being coached by DD? Or perhaps he'll drop into that pensieve? Who knows.
I still think Draco's Detour will have to do with Harry following Draco somewhere to something neither of them ought to see. Almost like a dejá vu of Snape being duped to see Lupin in werewolf form by Sirius. And it's got nothing to do with Draco's pureblood status changing. I agree with Used Vlad. We need something to turn the story, keep it going. Not 20+ chapters of reaction. Though I would not be surprised if there is fallout from the Death Eaters regarding the Dark Lord's identity/blood status.
98 days!!!! Merlin help us.
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So Sirius - Apr 9, 2005 12:44 pm (#275 of 1448)
Hi Joanne, You've raised very valid points. My only defense to my theory is that those not on the tapestry aren't on there because they were blood traitors, as you stated. To me, Mrs. Blacks idea of a blood traitor is someone who isn't on the side of the dark force. Sirius continued to be a full blood until his death but was taken off the tapestry because his agenda was unlike hers, same with the Weasleys, as they are full blooded but not on the tapestry because they didn't join the forces of evil. So, it's entirely possible that she kept names on there, regardless of their blood content, because their agendas were one in the same.
Vlad, I hear what you're saying, but I look at it a bit differently. There will be a full on war being waged. At this point, new issues will arise and sides will be taken and changed and I see that once the truth is learned, it sparks issues that result in the story being told starting from that chapter and moving on through book 7. I hear what you're all saying though. It's nice to have a place to work these things out.
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GryffEndora - Apr 9, 2005 12:44 pm (#276 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Ok, I think I'm hatching a theory so stick with me.
Let's say there is a person in the Wizarding World who holds the title of Half-Blood Prince and when that person dies the Wizarding World must find/choose another. The title is not heridatary, and maybe the last HBP didn't even have an heir so the point is moot. So, HBP dies and now the Wizarding World needs a new HBP. Maybe there is some magical way of selecting the next HBP like the GoF and all potential HBPs enter the competition to gain the title. This is tricky however because LV and his DEs are back and they will use the selection process to hunt down and kill potential HBPs. I first started thinking this when I saw the new advertising with "Who is the Half Blood Prince?" Perhaps that is a question that is asked in the book.
For example: . . . Who will be the (next) Half Blood Prince? Find out on Boxing Day as the entire Wizarding World awaits the results with us live on the WWN. Interested in becoming the HBP? Just drop your name in the Kettle of Knackledirk on the bar at the Leaky Cauldron, London no later than Christmas Eve . . . But be careful, there could be Death Eater watching the kettle to find half bloods and they might even follow you home and destroy your family. But what's life with out a little risk? Apply to be the Half Blood Prince today!
It seems to me that speculation has been either this person has been the HBP for some time and Harry is just becoming aware of it now or that the person didn't even necessarily know they were the HBP and now that the discovery has been made they become important. I'm wondering if the search for the HBP will be important.
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Mrdrama - Apr 9, 2005 1:11 pm (#277 of 1448)
-Gina- Thank you for your post, I can't believe that I hadn't made the link between the chapter titles and the US cover. Now my mind is spinning about possibilities with Harry looking in at Spinners End, seeing a trial concerning Felix, and maybe seeing an unexpected memory of someone concerning Draco.
Must go get a drink to organize thoughts. . . .
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Suspero - Apr 9, 2005 1:53 pm (#278 of 1448)
Professor
I just had to get on here and tell "Tomoe" how much I love the winking neo-Classical picture. Where can I get one? Certainly seems in the spirit of things!
Someone has mentioned the dreaded "N" word here before (Nazis) and I couldn't help thinking of Goebbels and Ghoering in all this discussion. Pure blood nobility and the Aryan race were important to those guys before World War I even started. Their issues definitely would not rest in the years between the wars and resurfaced with vengeance in WWII. Could it be that the wars of the wizarding world reflect in many ways the same undercurrents and dynamics as those wars? Are Voldemort's followers, the Death Eaters, in many ways like the bitter, frustrated German elite of the early 20th century? If so, then the identity of the HBP might be better discovered along lines that propel "the war story".
Wow, Tomoe, I just have to say it again that I love that picture>
By the way, why are birthdates, astrology and the zodiac so important to these Harry Potter books? Yet another way to give it a classical foundation, or just the relationship with the "occult"? Revelations of character? If they are significant then I have 2 questions: 1- Why so much emphasis on Harry's birthday in July? What does that mean? 2- Were any of the characters born in July?
My September daughter is uncannily like Hermione Granger, and Harry's bad temper reminds me of another late July man I know.
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MoonRider - Apr 9, 2005 1:59 pm (#279 of 1448)
Suspero: "Were any of the characters born in July?"
Neville's birthday is July 30th.
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GryffEndora - Apr 9, 2005 2:02 pm (#280 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Suspero - I believe Neville's birthday is July 30th
edit: cross posted with MoonRider
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Detail Seeker - Apr 9, 2005 2:11 pm (#281 of 1448)
Quod tempus non sanat, sanat ferrum,... so prepare
Suspero, when drawing analogies to history, I would very much appreciate it, if you had your facts correct. The First World War had totally different origins than those you quoted. So the analogy you draw is misleading. Thank you
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Suspero - Apr 9, 2005 2:27 pm (#282 of 1448)
Professor
I mispelled a name, too.
You know, I also goofed in asking if "any of the characters were born in July", I meant to ask if there were any born in January?
I can't possibly begin to claim knowledge of the origins of any war, but I would think it safe to say that a desire for supremacy on the world stage, racial and ethnic bigotry, and frustrated ambition were at the roots of both World Wars I and II, and therefore my analogy stands.
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Catherine - Apr 9, 2005 2:49 pm (#283 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Suspero, Snape was born in January. I hope that helps.
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 9, 2005 3:07 pm (#284 of 1448)
It has to be remembered also that in the Muggle world, the chief pureblood - Hitler - was himself a halfblood, having a Jewish Grandfather. I think Jo has tried to create some parallels with the WW and the MW having the Dark Wizard Grindelwald defeated in 1945 by the great and good Dumbledore.
Aurora xx
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MoonRider - Apr 9, 2005 6:31 pm (#285 of 1448)
Suspero: ".....I meant to ask if there were any born in January?"
Yes! To add to Catherine's post: January 9th.
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Veritaserum - Apr 9, 2005 10:07 pm (#286 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Can I just admit that until today I had never realized what a funny word "Muggle" is! It's like when you've known a word your whole life but never really think about it, and then you stare at it for awhile and then it looks really weird.
Also, I wasn't here for the release of OOP, so I was wondering if there will be some kind of voting or tallying of who people think the HBP is and who will die, and then we see who all was right.
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Gina R Snape - Apr 9, 2005 10:24 pm (#287 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Veritaserum, I do not speak for the forum specifically. But it seems to me there are too many votes/theories/ideas in a variety of threads to practically do a tallying. When OOtP was released, we did not do that. But there were plenty of us making mental notes of things we'd read and discussed here on the forum!
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Chemyst - Apr 10, 2005 5:36 am (#288 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Veritaserum, while not a vote, there is, of course, an entire thread on who might die: "Who will die in books 6/7?" #1
...and you could make a formal suggestion for "Who is the HBP?" as a vote for the vote thread. I think that would be a great question for June or early July.
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Winky Woo - Apr 10, 2005 5:45 am (#289 of 1448)
My favourite place in the world, the English Lake District
I wasn't a forum member when the other books came out, and I am wondering whether there will be a thread for those who are reading it as they go along, or just those who have read it completely?
I am so excited! It would great fun to be able to squeal or gasp on-line with others! Eg I REALLY didn't see that coming!WOW! etc and speculate after each chapter.
Actually, on reflection I can't imagine that I will be able to put the book down long enough to come on the forum to post! and I guess there would be a huge risk of spoiler info.
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 10, 2005 7:18 am (#290 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
The discussion concerning the blood lines has been very interesting. I agree with the comment concerning the Black's tapestry that Ms. Black removes anyone who doesn't agree with her. She might not have removed the Malfroy's because she didn't know about there "actual" bloodline. After all Voldermort has apparently kept the fact that he is a half blood fairly well hidden. Heck, even Lucius may not know the "truth" about his families past.
Maybe this is what Draco finds out in his detour. But I think that whatever the detour is it won't alter his atitude.
Mikie
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Gerald Costales - Apr 10, 2005 7:26 am (#291 of 1448)
Just posted this in the Mirrors thread (post #196). Thought it might fit here. Enjoy. ;-) GC
"Sirius' two-way mirror may possibly appear in book 6. But, I've always thought the Mirror of Erised would also reappear in either Book 6 or 7.
I know this has been asked before, but with Sirius' death - What would Harry's deepest desire be after his Godfather's dead? Now, Harry has had a Summer to mull the death of Sirius and possibly come to terms with it. But looking at how Cho handled Cedric's death, one can't be too sure how Harry will handle Sirius's death.
If Harry had some communication with Dumbledore or more probably Lupin, Harry may have dealt better with Sirius's death than Cho. But, I doubt Harry would have had much contact with either Dumbledore or Lupin our this last Summer. And both Ron and Hermione, I feel, neither have the experience to help Harry through his grief. And you can forget about the Dursleys helping Harry deal with Sirius' death.
Harry seemed desperate to see or talk to Sirius one more time (closure) at the end of Book 5. So, either the two-way Mirrors or the Mirror of Erised (my personal gut feeling) will reappear as the means for Harry to contact Sirius. (Don't even think of Harry going to that fraud Trelawney for a psychic reading.)
The now public reappearance of Voldermort and the escaped DE's (especially Bella) should be the major concern of the new Minister of Magic. I think with Fudge hopefully gone that the new Minister will have better ties to Dumbledore. And Dumbledore maybe too busy helping the new Minister to advise Harry in September.
That would mean either Lupin or maybe the "Half-Blood Prince" should be Harry's new mentor. Harry being mentored by the HBP may not be that farfetched. Especially if the HBP is the new DADA teacher. (Hopefully Lupin will reappear as the DADA teacher and mentor Harry again. But, I seriously doubt that would happen again.)
I think I've lit a big dung bomb. Waiting for reactions with bated breath." ;-) GC
PS Sorry, this post is off topic. But, I think this post should produce some interesting reactions. ;-) GC
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 10, 2005 7:36 am (#292 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
GC since as JKR states book 6 HBP starts off exactly where OotP ends then I doubt if we can assume that Harry has had much time to come to terms with Sirius's death. I believe that any grieving that Harry feels must be done will have to be done on the run during the summer.
I do agree with you that he(Harry)will be able to handle his loss alot better than Cho handled the loss of Cedric.
I like your post's and would never send a dung bomb as long as we stay off the subject of the snitch.
Mikie
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Ydnam96 - Apr 10, 2005 7:55 am (#293 of 1448)
Gerald. I would love it if the DADA teacher were indeed Lupin again. I have to wonder, given the "new" state of the WW if Hogwart's curriculum will have some differences?
And just to note for posterity, I think that the Half Blood Prince is a person/character from history, and that Harry will learn about him (possible Godric) but he will not actually take a physical form in the book. It is just my opinion of course
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Gerald Costales - Apr 10, 2005 10:55 am (#294 of 1448)
I think that the Half Blood Prince is a person/character from history, and that Harry will learn about him (possible Godric) but he will not actually take a physical form in the book. It is just my opinion of course
" Ydnam96 I would have agreed with you about Godric being the HBP earlier. But, there was the excerpt from JKR website about that mysterious lion-like character. And now I'm not so sure. (Only book 6 can settle that speculation.)
"I like your post's and would never send a dung bomb as long as we stay off the subject of the snitch." Mikie
Snitch what Snitch?!?! Now, SNEAK cough*Marietta*cough that's another matter!!!!
It would be nice to see Lupin back as the DADA teacher. But, I doubt it will happen. If I were voting on HBP candidates today. The list would not have Draco, Lucius, Neville, Ron (or any other Weasleys), James, Voldermort, Harry etc. With the exceptions of Voldermort and Harry, those listed are Pure Bloods and are alive except James.
My short list for the HBP is -
. . . . . . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor - Half-Blood - ? . . .Prince - ?
. . . . . . . . . . 2. Remus Lupin .- Half-Blood - YES . . . Prince - ?
. . . . . . . . . . 3. Dean Thomas - Half-Blood - YES . . . Prince - ?
I believe the lion-like character in the excerpt from HBP is Godric Gryffindor or possibly the next DADA teacher. (The mascot for Gryffindor is a Lion, etc.) Also, there is the possibility of someone new and as of yet unknown or some other minor or briefly mentioned or seen character. ;-) GC
PS As to Grindelwald, the Grindelwald connection is to Dumbledore - the one who defeated this Dark Wizard, and possibly Voldermort - Could Grindelwald have trained Voldermort to have become a Dark Wizard? There can only be one Sith Lord, only One. Woops!!! Am I Bad! Wrong story. ;-) GC
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 10, 2005 3:50 pm (#295 of 1448)
Apart from the obvious questions I want to know what the Sorting Hat will sing this year - it's let a few things slip by and few of us have taken as much notice as Hermione...
Aurora xx
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Chemyst - Apr 10, 2005 5:05 pm (#296 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Ydnam, I tend to agree that there is a good chance that the Half-Blood Prince is a person/character from history. That was my initial thought before I read everyone else's theories and speculations. JKR has created a lot of ways to reveal past events & people: the Pensieve, portraits, diaries, dreams, Binn's lectures, etc. And nothing prevents her from adding more magical history-revealing artifacts. I think it would be a kicker though if the HBP was the director of the Department of Mysteries. Other than something totally cool like that, I hope the HBP is historical.
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Veritaserum - Apr 10, 2005 5:56 pm (#297 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Ooh, in charge of the Department of Mysteries, I like that one! I am pretty darn sure that the DoM will have some significance again. Good thinking, Chemyst!
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kabloink! - Apr 11, 2005 10:22 am (#298 of 1448)
Optician's Assistant
Going back several posts, the parallels being drawn between WWII and the war in the wizarding world make a lot of sense. Given that JKR has commented on the fact that pure bloods measure their purity much the way Nazis measured theirs gives me the idea that no one on that tapestry is in any way, shape, or form half blood or less. I think Hagrid's statement was more of a sweeping statement than necessarily an detailed accurate one. MOST wizarding families aren't pureblood anymore, but IMO, there have to be some or maybe even just one that consists of all the pure-pure blood families that have intermarried.
Also, about WWI. While antiSemitism goes back centuries, if not millenia (and in all parts of the world), it wasn't a factor in WWI. WWI had a lot more to do with ill thought out alliances and agreements on the part of all nations that ended up immediately involved. Well, that's my historical analysis in its barest simplest form.
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Sconie Girl - Apr 11, 2005 11:27 am (#299 of 1448)
To throw in my 2 knuts... WWI came out of the Imperialism, Militarism, Alliances, and Propaganda (IMAP) from the end of the 1800's right up to 1914.
You can look at the tie ins w/ VWI that Voldy and followers probably had designs on controlling more than just Britain and certainly were making "alliances" some of the forced with the Imperio Curse. And even propaganda that pure bloods are better than other wizards.
But with all the discussion about "pure blood" its easier to make connections to WWII and the Nazi's takeover.
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septentrion - Apr 11, 2005 11:49 am (#300 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Causes of WWI are still a cause of debate amongst historians, but racism is not amongst that causes. On the other hand, racism is nearly the heart of the problem, if not the heart itself, for WWII, and it certainly relates to the concept of blood-purity in the Wizarding World wether Jo intended that relation or not.
About who the half-blood prince may be, I've read with interest all the theories but I still think it's a historical character. Maybe he was the founder of the Order of the Phoenix ? Do we know if DD founded the Order or if the Order already existed before ? Perhaps the half-blood and muggleborn have already need some special protection in the past.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 301 to 350)
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Suspero - Apr 11, 2005 5:19 pm (#301 of 1448)
Professor
Like I said in my reply to "Detail Seeker", I can't claim to know the origins of WWI, but the asassination that "started it" was over the same Serbian-Croatian conflict that has flared up in recent years and that is age-old racial conflict. Gehring was a WWI pilot and he along with many other pilots and quite a few German writers of the pre-WWI years had quite a bit to say about wanting to purify the race, the nation, the clubhouses, the schools, the hunting lodges, etc. When WWI ended the Armistice dealt with airplanes and tanks but it didn't deal with the heart of the problem. Perhaps killing Voldemort wouldn't put an end to the problem, just as Dumbledore defeating that evil wizard in 1945 didn't put an end to all evil.
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LadyLozreena - Apr 12, 2005 4:21 am (#302 of 1448)
Hagrid?
Ok so can someone tell me why Hagrid CAN'T be the HBP?
Thanks
LL ;0)
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Gerald Costales - Apr 12, 2005 5:34 am (#303 of 1448)
"Ok so can someone tell me why Hagrid CAN'T be the HBP?" LadyLozreena
I believe the most used argument is this - Wizard + Giant, etc. = Half Breed.
A Half-Blood is usually defined as this - Wizard (Pure Blood) + Muggle = Half-Blood.
So, many people in the Forum believe Hagrid is a Half Breed not a Half-Blood. And there is that problem of Royalty. Hagrid is the Prince of what?
Personally if Hagrid is the HBP, it would stretch the limits of the World JKR has created. I know that the Books comes from JKR’s imagination and the Wizarding World is her World. But what makes JKR World work is that there are some rules. I like Hagrid. But having Hagrid as the HBP would not just be bending the rules but probably breaking them (at least by many people‘s thinking).
Of course us Potties seem to go over every bit of fluff and detail with a fine toothed comb. And none of us can really state whether Hagrid can’t be the HBP. The truth of who is the HBP can only really be confirmed or denied by JKR. (Or the release of Book 6.)
So, thus far JKR has excluded both Voldermort and Harry as the HBP. So, technically any male character could be a HBP candidate. But if you want to break rules. One might argue that Hermione or Ginny is the HBP. But like I said were looking for a PRINCE not a PRINCESS aren’t WE.
Just as long as the HBP isn’t Trevor - Could Trevor be an Enchanted Prince?, I’ll be happy? Don’t worry Book 6 will be released July 16 and we’ll all be happier!!! ;-) GC
PS I wouldn’t be too upset if Hagrid is the HBP. But I don’t really see that happening. ;-) GC
PPS DRACO as the HBP!!! No way!!! Merlin's Beard, DRACO is Pure Blood!!! So, that's why I have Lupin, Dean Thomas and possibly Godric Gryffindor as candidates for the HBP. JM2K ;-) GC
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Eponine - Apr 12, 2005 6:52 am (#304 of 1448)
It's also been reported (but not confirmed) that two different people asked JKR at the Edinburgh Book Festival while they were getting their books signed if Hagrid was the HBP and she said no.
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LadyLozreena - Apr 12, 2005 7:28 am (#305 of 1448)
Hey Gerald - Thanks for your reply! What rules do you mean though? I think if its Hagrid there aren't any rules being broken!
All we know so far is it is someone who is half-blood and that means half-wizard as far as I am concerned. Hagrid is both these things and so I don't know what you mean!
Ok, so its a flimsy argument but he is a princely sort of chap (personality wise), his Mum was big (pun intended) in the Giant world (maybe she was a leader/Queen) and the giants are going to be involved in the next book as far as we know cos of Madame Maxime and Grawp and the fact that Hagrid didn't sort things out with the giants when Dumbledore sent him off so thats unresolved as far as I am concerned.
Also, if he is the HBP then I think it would be a simple answer to all this questioning and I think that maybe JKR doesn't write in as complicated a way as some of the other suggestions have been thought out from... if that makes sense!!
So come on - is anyone else with me on this?
LL
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Ydnam96 - Apr 12, 2005 7:49 am (#306 of 1448)
Well, if we are going down this line, maybe Grawp is the HBP
Just kidding
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wynnleaf - Apr 12, 2005 8:01 am (#307 of 1448)
As I see it, the HBP has to be someone who's character would have meshed with the CoS, not someone whose presence in CoS would have necessitated an entirely new and different plotline. I know JKR discarded the idea of including the HBP ideas into CoS in part because it would have created unnecessary (at that point in the books) plot twists. But, I don't think she'd have ever planned to put the HBP into CoS if it would have required an entirely different plot.
That's one reason why I see the HBP as more likely an historical figure such as Godric Griffindor. Besides that, if CoS was originally going to be titled HBP, then the HBP would (I'd assume), have to link tightly to the chamber connection. GG does that.
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Knight - Apr 13, 2005 4:47 am (#308 of 1448)
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing..."
Hi all, i´ve been thinking about HBP for a while now and agreeing with Wynnleaf that HBP is likely to be an historical figure, would it be possible for Severus Snape to be the HBP?. He has always been protected by Dumbledore ever since he left the Death Eaters... I was just wondering and maybe someone has some more information on this matter. K.
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MoonRider - Apr 13, 2005 9:40 am (#309 of 1448)
Hi, All!
I just got back from the store, and I wanted to let those of you who don't already know/are interested, that you can now reserve your copy of HBP at Wal-Mart. You pick-up this little coupon-looking thingy (you tear it off of a display card [it's a small version of the HUGE display thing we saw, that had the Death Mark on it]) at the "Service Desk" (I guess you would call it) where you do exchanges/refunds; then, you take it to the Cashier, give her $2.00 + tax; fill-out the back of the coupon thingy, with your name and address-----hold-on to coupon thingy and your receipt-----take the receipt and coupon thingy with you when you pick-up your book.
It says: "Presell ends 6/25/05. Redeem no later than 7/31/05."
NOTE: This only reserves it-----you're not buying it.
Also, I tried asking a couple of people-----one of whom identified herself as a manager-----if this covers the HBP "Deluxe Edition"-----she didn't know.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, some kid stole something while I was there-----he almost knocked me down, running-----it took me THREE hours to buy milk, bread, etc. SHEESH!
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Hollywand - Apr 13, 2005 5:42 pm (#310 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Also!!! Folks, support the Lexicon by ordering HBP through this site! I got Order of the Phoenix just fine on the release date through Amazon.
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S.E. Jones - Apr 13, 2005 7:01 pm (#311 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--Wynnleaf: That's one reason why I see the HBP as more likely an historical figure such as Godric Griffindor.--
You know, I was thinking about the 'historical figure' idea and the excerpt JKR gave us (which Andrew was kind enough to remind me of), and I think they might be related.
The excerpt goes: He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.
Could this description be from a painting of someone, a historical figure, on Dumbledore's office wall?
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ruthlesspenguin - Apr 13, 2005 8:20 pm (#312 of 1448)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Just a thought from having another look at that excerpt. Why would a wizard be walking with a limp? I know magical medicine is not perfect, but I would have thought the sort of pain that would cause someone to limp would be treatable. I can think of a few explanations, anyone have any other ideas?
1. The character is a muggle, and therefore hasn't had the benefit of magical medicine.
2. The charcter is a historical figure, and when he was alive magical medicine was not as developed as it is today.
3. His injury is highly unusual and therefore the healers have been unable to help him.
4. The character has just been hurt and has not yet had time to visit the healers.
<(')
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Luanee - Apr 13, 2005 10:11 pm (#313 of 1448)
I kind of agree with Wynnleaf... I was thinking the HBP may just appear as a statue or a symbolic person, and not necessary exist in flesh and blood in the next book.
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The giant squid - Apr 13, 2005 11:10 pm (#314 of 1448)
For those of you who preordered through Amazon, I received an e-mail a couple days ago (I know, I'm slacking...) announcing that HBP will be delivered on the release date. There were exceptions, such as it must be reserved before July 11th (as if any of us could wait that long!), does not apply to orders of more than 8 copies (which some of you might qualify for) and does not apply in the event of service failures beyond their control (i.e. the delivery truck breaks down).
--Mike
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Ydnam96 - Apr 13, 2005 11:15 pm (#315 of 1448)
Well, Moody walks with a limp and a thump because he is missing a leg...maybe they didn't have skellegrow when he had his "accident"???
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septentrion - Apr 14, 2005 12:07 am (#316 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
They would have need some "flesh grow" as well along with skele-grow.
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Suspero - Apr 14, 2005 7:58 am (#317 of 1448)
Professor
Rather than trying to figure out who might be HBP by analyzing individual characters and their potential wouldn't the identity of the HBP more likely be someone who can tie all the threads of the story together, a kind of linch-pin if you will?
I suspect that the character JKR revealed who looks rather like an old lion and walks with a limp is a new prof. at Hogwarts and may be either an animagus feline or demonstrate some other traits that tie in with that feline chapter title. I just don't feel that at this point the HBP is going to be an entirely new and unheard of introduction. I'm expecting to slap myself in the forehead come July and say, "Of course!"
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S.E. Jones - Apr 14, 2005 10:42 am (#318 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--I just don't feel that at this point the HBP is going to be an entirely new and unheard of introduction.--
But if the description is of someone in a portrait, it could be someone we've been introduced to before, in reference at least. For instance, if the excerpt is describing the portrait of Godric Gryffindor on Dumbledore's office wall, then we've been introduced to him in terms of Hogwarts history.
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Suspero - Apr 14, 2005 11:07 am (#319 of 1448)
Professor
Well... it doesn't sound like a description of a portrait. "Walks with a limp" has a definite feeling of meeting someone in one's own space. However, it could be a description of seeing someone in a "historical" context such as in the Pensieve.
But it seems to me like an appraisal on meeting either someone in The Order or a new professor.
And I keep thinking of "lion", "mane" and that feline chapter title. Of course, there's always Crookshanks...
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Ladybug220 - Apr 14, 2005 2:30 pm (#320 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Keep in mind that the portraits move so we could be meeting a portrait rather than seeing someone in the Pensieve.
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Veritaserum - Apr 14, 2005 4:54 pm (#321 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Yeah, portraits do move, but they don't really walk, do they? Unless he was originally painted like at the end of a really long hall or something.
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MoonRider - Apr 14, 2005 5:03 pm (#322 of 1448)
Veritaserum: "Yeah, portraits do move, but they don't really walk, do they?"
I'm thinking they do-----the Fat Lady went to visit her friend, Sir Cadogan is always running around, and Phineas Nigellus went from Hogwarts to #12GP.....
also, Headmistress Derwent went from Hogwarts to St. Mungo's
I think I'm forgetting a couple.....
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 14, 2005 8:40 pm (#323 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Could one of the portraits be the new DADA teacher. If they can talk and move around their frame. Even a picture would be better the Umbridge.
Mikie
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Suspero - Apr 14, 2005 8:42 pm (#324 of 1448)
Professor
I'm going to venture a little speculation:
- in book 5 there were exploding toilets in Muggle parks, I'll bet there'll be a whole lot more of wizards baiting and bashing Muggles
- in book 5 we were introduced to Luna and the wizarding world's tabloids, I'm guessing there'll be the wizarding world's version of a media war now that Fudge is out of the way
- JKR has said that the war within the wizarding world is going to escalate so I bet we see the Dark Mark more than once
- in short, I'm just guessing that it's all going to be crazy and fast and furious and almost too much to keep up with -- plus even tougher lessons now that they're past O.W.L.s
Whatdaya think?
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S.E. Jones - Apr 15, 2005 10:56 am (#325 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--Yeah, portraits do move, but they don't really walk, do they?-- Veritaserum
Portraits walk within their frames as well as being able to move between frames. We got to see Sir Cadogan walk:
A fat, dapple-gray pony had just ambled onto the grass and was grazing nonchalantly. Harry was used to the subjects of Hogwarts paintings moving around and leaving their frames to visit one another, but he always enjoyed watching it. A moment later, a short, squat knight in a suit of armor clanked into the picture after his pony.
They watched in astonishment as the little knight tugged his sword out of its scabbard and began brandishing it violently, hopping up and down in rage. But the sword was too long for him; a particularly violent swing made him overbalance, and he landed facedown in the grass.
And he ran, clanking loudly, into the left side of the frame and out of sight.
In each of those examples we got to see Cadogan interact with his portrait and run, walk, fall down, etc.
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Veritaserum - Apr 15, 2005 8:09 pm (#326 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, I see what you mean. But still, I think that the description of the lion-like man would have to be a real person that Harry actually encounters or observes.
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Melly - Apr 15, 2005 11:29 pm (#327 of 1448)
I think the lion-like man in the teaser that JKR released is Godric Gryffindor and Harry sees him through the pensieve. I am in two minds about whether he is the HBP or not though. I think it would make sense for the HBP to be a historical figure and not someone that we already know, such as Hagrid for example. Well that's just what I think. Sorry, pretty pointless post really!
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Catherine - Apr 16, 2005 5:09 am (#328 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
I think the lion-like man in the teaser that JKR released is Godric Gryffindor and Harry sees him through the pensieve.
That's an interesting thought, but I keep wondering how Dumbledore would have access to memories of someone who lived a thousand years ago. The only way I can think of is perhaps the Sorting Hat?
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scoop2172000 - Apr 16, 2005 6:27 am (#329 of 1448)
Somehow, Tom Riddle had made some sort of mental connection to Salazzar Slytherin, so it might make sense that Dumbledore may have done the same with Godric Gryffindor.
That Gryffindor connection being the Sorting Hat is an interesting theory. It makes sense, given how much importance JKR has assigned to the Sorting Hat in general and particularly in the Chamber of Secrets, where the Sorting Hat plays a pivotal role. Remember: she's told us some crucial clues to the remainder of the series are found in Chamber of Secrets.
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Chemyst - Apr 16, 2005 9:04 am (#330 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...accessing the memories of the Sorting Hat, complete with video, not just chatting. Hmm... That opens very interesting possibilities.
Another possible source might be Professor Binns. The Lexicon hasn't listed any specific dates of his teaching and as a ghost, he may have been there a very long time, possibly as an eyewitness to some events. He is not as old as the founding of Hogwarts (as we can know by his comments on the Chamber of Secrets in CS) but he's probably been there quite a while.
NHNick would be able to give eyewitness accountings of 500 year-old events, the approximate half-way point in Hogwarts history. JKR has no shortage of access to the past.
As for the leonine man teaser, I was struck by the yin/yang, part/counterpart, complementing description of the statue where Ginny was found: "It was ancient and monkeyish, with a long thin beard that fell almost to the bottom of the wizards sweeping robes where two enormous grey feet stood on the smooth Chamber floor." (That must have been some stone carver who could sculpt "sweeping" robes on a figure standing stone still!) Compare that with "He looked rather like an old lion.[...] his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows [...] a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp..."
There are just so many contrasts stuffed into these two sentences – lion/monkey, mane/thin beard, tawny/grey, walks/stood – that I wonder if this is significant.
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frogface - Apr 16, 2005 2:15 pm (#331 of 1448)
Well done! I'd never noticed that before, veeeeery interesting. Also for some reason I'd always pictured the founders as all being middle aged when they founded Hogwarts but if the statue is anything to go by then Slyterin was quite old by the time he built the chamber. So Godric being at a similar age makes sense to me, which sort of backs up the theory that he is the leonine man
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 16, 2005 2:39 pm (#332 of 1448)
Chemyst,
Nice spotting! 25 points for your house!
I forgot the statue description in the Chamber of Secrets. That does contrast well with the leonine description.
Betelgeuse
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kabloink! - Apr 16, 2005 4:24 pm (#333 of 1448)
Optician's Assistant
Ooh! Great researching! I never thought of that comparison, either. I actually don't post much on this thread, but what if the pensieve doesn't just belong to DUmbledore? I could be mistaken, as I haven't readt the books in awhile (darn senior work...), but maybe the pensieve has been part of Hogwarts for a long time, always accessible to the headmaster. It could have been one of Godric Gryffindor's many contributions, and thus would have memories of all the headmasters in Hogwarts history. What a rich resource that would be, especially with an upcoming war. It is those who don't know their history, that are doomed to repeat it... (Sorry History major spouting random quotes from unknown sources..)
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Ydnam96 - Apr 16, 2005 7:07 pm (#334 of 1448)
Actually though you are assuming that whomever owned it before left memories in it when they died and then you are assuming that those memories would "continue" on in the pensive with their "head" dead.
It may not be possible.
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haymoni - Apr 16, 2005 7:38 pm (#335 of 1448)
Didn't Snape use Dumbledore's pensieve?
Could he have picked out Dumbledore's memories?
Could you destroy someone's pensieve memories?
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Suspero - Apr 16, 2005 8:33 pm (#336 of 1448)
Professor
Didn't Dumbledore retrieve his memories out of the Pensieve later? It doesn't seem like a storage device (I think we're all thinking of computer memory) but more like a medium -- like "I can take a memory out of my head temporarily and put it back later". In the 4th book it seemed as if a wand could store a memory, though, in the way that Voldemort's victims reappeared in ghostly fashion. Oy! My head spins at all this conjecture!
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Classicsquid592 - Apr 17, 2005 4:23 pm (#337 of 1448)
This has probably already been discussed and I do not plan to reread all of the posts I've missed in the time I've been gone, but I want to put out my new idea for who the Half-Blood Prince is. Dumbledore appears on the cover of both the US and UK editions of the book and is the only character other than Harry shown. Also in the US cover, they are looking into a device that could possibly be a pensieve and I was considering the possibility that the character described in the excerpt from the book given the first time the door opened could actually be a much younger Dumbledore seen in a pensieve memory. I know its probably way to late to be making any predictions based on the book covers but I wanted to have a chance to post my thoughts on them.
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Madam Pince - Apr 18, 2005 12:48 pm (#338 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Actually, Classicsquid, I think you've hit on one nobody's mentioned before -- at least I don't remember anybody speculating that it could be a younger Pensieve-version Dumbledore in the excerpt! You may be onto something there! I know some people thought it might be Aberforth Dumbledore, and quite a few think it's a Pensieve-version of Godric Gryffindor, but I haven't heard of it being Albus. We have a description of Dumbledore from somewhat-younger days, when Harry is "attending" the trials of the Death-Eaters via Pensieve, but that's not all that long ago, really.
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frogface - Apr 18, 2005 2:25 pm (#339 of 1448)
We also saw him 50 years younger in CoS. Its an interesting idea, but aren't Dumbledore's eyes blue?
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Hexenhammer - Apr 18, 2005 2:45 pm (#340 of 1448)
Just wondering how long has the pensive been around? Not only as an item in general but the one used by Albus? Maybe its been passed down from headmaster to headmaster in direction succession from the first one and have all sorts of memories floating around in it.
“First thing to go is your memory. The second thing is… er um…”
-Hexenhammer
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S.E. Jones - Apr 18, 2005 3:25 pm (#341 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Yes, Albus's eyes are blue, and his hair was described as ginger, if I remeber correctly....
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Suspero - Apr 18, 2005 4:23 pm (#342 of 1448)
Professor
The Sorting Hat tells Harry in Sorcerer's Stone and CoS that he could have been great in Slytherin, "it's all here in your head". Could Harry have Voldemort's memories, too? I mean, Voldemort put that scar on his forehead, transferred certain powers to him such as parseltongue, and made him very powerful in casting curses, hexes and spells (in OoP he casts a hex on Snape without even realizing he did it)... could it be that in maiking Harry his "equal" Voldemort transferred some or all of his memories? If so, maybe that's what they're looking at in the pensieve?
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Veritaserum - Apr 18, 2005 4:41 pm (#343 of 1448)
Go Jays!
SEJones, I believe Dumbledore's hair was auburn or dark red (not sure of the wording, but it's the same color as Lily's.) I have however recently learned (from the PoA movie interviews) that "ginger" is red hair. So I suppose Dumbledore's could be called ginger...
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 18, 2005 9:06 pm (#344 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Suspero I love your theory. I have always thought that the scar was the key to the defeat of Voldemort. The idea that the thoughts that DD and Harry are looking at in the pensieve are some of Voldemorts is outstanding.
Could removing them and leaving them out possibly take away some of Harry's nightmares or headaches and make it harder for Voldemort to read Harry's thoughts?
Mikie
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MoonRider - Apr 19, 2005 3:09 am (#345 of 1448)
MickeyCee3948: It's interesting that you mentioned DD's scar, because that's where my mind has gone lately with these most recent posts. When first reading Classicsquid592's post, I thought of DD's auburn hair that we "saw" from 50 years ago-----then I happened to think about the excerpt Classicsquid592 mentioned, and wondered if DD had a limp (because of the scar on his knee). I, too, have thought-----ever since it was mentioned-----that a scar of London's underground was going to come into play some time in the future-----and, probably, in a big way.
Does anybody ever remember reading whether DD has a "slight limp"? I don't think I remember anything like that-----but it's entirely too early this morning, for me to know for sure.
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Gerald Costales - Apr 19, 2005 5:19 am (#346 of 1448)
(re: post# 330)
“I was struck by the yin/yang, part/counterpart, complementing description of the statue where Ginny was found: "It was ancient and monkeyish, with a long thin beard that fell almost to the bottom of the wizards sweeping robes where two enormous grey feet stood on the smooth Chamber floor." (That must have been some stone carver who could sculpt "sweeping" robes on a figure standing stone still!)” Chemyst
Why assume the “ancient monkeyish” figure is a statue, the Basilisk’s stare turns people and animals into stone. Even Nearly Headless Nick was affected by the Basilisk’s stare. If the “monkeyish” figure isn’t a statue but a petrified person or creature, then who could it be? An intruder? One of the Founders? (If the figure was one of the Founders, which one?)
If the Founders were the Greatest Wizards and Witches of the Day, they all could have been Animagus. Now, I’ve thought that each Founder had a special Magical ability: Slytherin - Parseltongue; which has been inherited by Tom Riddle and Harry through the “Scar”. So, wouldn’t the Heir of Gryffindor inherit “something” possibly the ability of being an Animagi?
I’ve speculated that being an Animagi was a Magical ability that Gryffindor possessed. With the exception of Rita Skeeter, all the Animagus we are aware of are Gryffindors - McGonagall, James Potter, and Wormtail. (I feel Dumbledore could be an Animagi even though no canon evidence exists concerning it.)
If the “Leonine” person is Gryffindor, I could easily see Gryffindor becoming a Lion from the teaser description - the tawny mane and yellow eyes. Also, why is Gryffindor’s mascot a Lion? Slytherin’s mascot is a Serpent for obvious reasons.
Could the “Leonine” person be the Half-Blood Prince? Only time will tell. ;-) GC
PS . . . I do believe in Spooks, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do believe in Spooks . . . Oops! Am I Bad! That’s the Cowardly Lion. ;-) GC
PPS I had a dream and you were there and the “Half-Blood Prince” was in the Bookstores. ;-) GC
PPPS It couldn’t be a dream my “Scar” was hurting and it was so real! ;-) GC
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Winky Woo - Apr 19, 2005 5:36 am (#347 of 1448)
My favourite place in the world, the English Lake District
J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival, Sunday, August 15, 2004.
"How did Dumbledore get his scar in the London Underground?"
"You may find out one day. I am very fond of that scar."
I love Quick Quote Quill!
Ginger tends to be lighter than Auburn, more of an orange shade, whereas auburn has more kind of brown tones...However my other half was bright ginger when he was younger, and now is more auburn even though he is only in his 30's, who knows if he keeps all his hair it may turn white! So it could be Dumbledore...
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Catherine - Apr 19, 2005 6:36 am (#348 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Why assume the “ancient monkeyish” figure is a statue, the Basilisk’s stare turns people and animals into stone. Even Nearly Headless Nick was affected by the Basilisk’s stare. If the “monkeyish” figure isn’t a statue but a petrified person or creature, then who could it be? An intruder? One of the Founders? (If the figure was one of the Founders, which one?) --Gerald Costales
We are told that the figure is a statue of Slytherin: "Slytherin's gigantic stone face was moving....something was stirring inside the statue's mouth." (CoS, p.317, Scholastic hardback)
We are also told how huge it is. Unless Slytherin was bigger than Hagrid, I don't see how it could be a petrified version of Slytherin.
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Suspero - Apr 19, 2005 7:02 am (#349 of 1448)
Professor
Wow,Gerald Costales -- 20 points to Gryffindor (I think) for that about the mascot being a lion. I am definitely favoring the idea that the lion-like man is Gryffindor. Yup.
About my earlier conjecture that Harry might have Voldemort's memories and that may be what they're looking at in the Pensieve: Out of 5 covers so far 4 of the pictures on the covers seem to convey events late in the books (Goblet of Fire is the exception) -- could it be that what we're seeing on the cover is something crucial late in the book? Scars! Most definitely! Thanks, Winky Woo, for the JKR quote about "that scar" of Dumbledore's!
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GryffEndora - Apr 19, 2005 8:53 am (#350 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I love the connection between monkeyish Slytherin and a possible leonine Gryffindor. Once connected with the Gryffindor Lion as Gerald pointed I'm hoping that the person described on Jo's website is Gryffindor. Great thoughts everybody!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Professor
Like I said in my reply to "Detail Seeker", I can't claim to know the origins of WWI, but the asassination that "started it" was over the same Serbian-Croatian conflict that has flared up in recent years and that is age-old racial conflict. Gehring was a WWI pilot and he along with many other pilots and quite a few German writers of the pre-WWI years had quite a bit to say about wanting to purify the race, the nation, the clubhouses, the schools, the hunting lodges, etc. When WWI ended the Armistice dealt with airplanes and tanks but it didn't deal with the heart of the problem. Perhaps killing Voldemort wouldn't put an end to the problem, just as Dumbledore defeating that evil wizard in 1945 didn't put an end to all evil.
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LadyLozreena - Apr 12, 2005 4:21 am (#302 of 1448)
Hagrid?
Ok so can someone tell me why Hagrid CAN'T be the HBP?
Thanks
LL ;0)
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Gerald Costales - Apr 12, 2005 5:34 am (#303 of 1448)
"Ok so can someone tell me why Hagrid CAN'T be the HBP?" LadyLozreena
I believe the most used argument is this - Wizard + Giant, etc. = Half Breed.
A Half-Blood is usually defined as this - Wizard (Pure Blood) + Muggle = Half-Blood.
So, many people in the Forum believe Hagrid is a Half Breed not a Half-Blood. And there is that problem of Royalty. Hagrid is the Prince of what?
Personally if Hagrid is the HBP, it would stretch the limits of the World JKR has created. I know that the Books comes from JKR’s imagination and the Wizarding World is her World. But what makes JKR World work is that there are some rules. I like Hagrid. But having Hagrid as the HBP would not just be bending the rules but probably breaking them (at least by many people‘s thinking).
Of course us Potties seem to go over every bit of fluff and detail with a fine toothed comb. And none of us can really state whether Hagrid can’t be the HBP. The truth of who is the HBP can only really be confirmed or denied by JKR. (Or the release of Book 6.)
So, thus far JKR has excluded both Voldermort and Harry as the HBP. So, technically any male character could be a HBP candidate. But if you want to break rules. One might argue that Hermione or Ginny is the HBP. But like I said were looking for a PRINCE not a PRINCESS aren’t WE.
Just as long as the HBP isn’t Trevor - Could Trevor be an Enchanted Prince?, I’ll be happy? Don’t worry Book 6 will be released July 16 and we’ll all be happier!!! ;-) GC
PS I wouldn’t be too upset if Hagrid is the HBP. But I don’t really see that happening. ;-) GC
PPS DRACO as the HBP!!! No way!!! Merlin's Beard, DRACO is Pure Blood!!! So, that's why I have Lupin, Dean Thomas and possibly Godric Gryffindor as candidates for the HBP. JM2K ;-) GC
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Eponine - Apr 12, 2005 6:52 am (#304 of 1448)
It's also been reported (but not confirmed) that two different people asked JKR at the Edinburgh Book Festival while they were getting their books signed if Hagrid was the HBP and she said no.
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LadyLozreena - Apr 12, 2005 7:28 am (#305 of 1448)
Hey Gerald - Thanks for your reply! What rules do you mean though? I think if its Hagrid there aren't any rules being broken!
All we know so far is it is someone who is half-blood and that means half-wizard as far as I am concerned. Hagrid is both these things and so I don't know what you mean!
Ok, so its a flimsy argument but he is a princely sort of chap (personality wise), his Mum was big (pun intended) in the Giant world (maybe she was a leader/Queen) and the giants are going to be involved in the next book as far as we know cos of Madame Maxime and Grawp and the fact that Hagrid didn't sort things out with the giants when Dumbledore sent him off so thats unresolved as far as I am concerned.
Also, if he is the HBP then I think it would be a simple answer to all this questioning and I think that maybe JKR doesn't write in as complicated a way as some of the other suggestions have been thought out from... if that makes sense!!
So come on - is anyone else with me on this?
LL
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Ydnam96 - Apr 12, 2005 7:49 am (#306 of 1448)
Well, if we are going down this line, maybe Grawp is the HBP
Just kidding
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wynnleaf - Apr 12, 2005 8:01 am (#307 of 1448)
As I see it, the HBP has to be someone who's character would have meshed with the CoS, not someone whose presence in CoS would have necessitated an entirely new and different plotline. I know JKR discarded the idea of including the HBP ideas into CoS in part because it would have created unnecessary (at that point in the books) plot twists. But, I don't think she'd have ever planned to put the HBP into CoS if it would have required an entirely different plot.
That's one reason why I see the HBP as more likely an historical figure such as Godric Griffindor. Besides that, if CoS was originally going to be titled HBP, then the HBP would (I'd assume), have to link tightly to the chamber connection. GG does that.
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Knight - Apr 13, 2005 4:47 am (#308 of 1448)
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing..."
Hi all, i´ve been thinking about HBP for a while now and agreeing with Wynnleaf that HBP is likely to be an historical figure, would it be possible for Severus Snape to be the HBP?. He has always been protected by Dumbledore ever since he left the Death Eaters... I was just wondering and maybe someone has some more information on this matter. K.
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MoonRider - Apr 13, 2005 9:40 am (#309 of 1448)
Hi, All!
I just got back from the store, and I wanted to let those of you who don't already know/are interested, that you can now reserve your copy of HBP at Wal-Mart. You pick-up this little coupon-looking thingy (you tear it off of a display card [it's a small version of the HUGE display thing we saw, that had the Death Mark on it]) at the "Service Desk" (I guess you would call it) where you do exchanges/refunds; then, you take it to the Cashier, give her $2.00 + tax; fill-out the back of the coupon thingy, with your name and address-----hold-on to coupon thingy and your receipt-----take the receipt and coupon thingy with you when you pick-up your book.
It says: "Presell ends 6/25/05. Redeem no later than 7/31/05."
NOTE: This only reserves it-----you're not buying it.
Also, I tried asking a couple of people-----one of whom identified herself as a manager-----if this covers the HBP "Deluxe Edition"-----she didn't know.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Also, some kid stole something while I was there-----he almost knocked me down, running-----it took me THREE hours to buy milk, bread, etc. SHEESH!
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Hollywand - Apr 13, 2005 5:42 pm (#310 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Also!!! Folks, support the Lexicon by ordering HBP through this site! I got Order of the Phoenix just fine on the release date through Amazon.
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S.E. Jones - Apr 13, 2005 7:01 pm (#311 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--Wynnleaf: That's one reason why I see the HBP as more likely an historical figure such as Godric Griffindor.--
You know, I was thinking about the 'historical figure' idea and the excerpt JKR gave us (which Andrew was kind enough to remind me of), and I think they might be related.
The excerpt goes: He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp.
Could this description be from a painting of someone, a historical figure, on Dumbledore's office wall?
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ruthlesspenguin - Apr 13, 2005 8:20 pm (#312 of 1448)
Recently returned from a rather lengthy forum break involving exams, travel and of course a great deal of rereading...
Just a thought from having another look at that excerpt. Why would a wizard be walking with a limp? I know magical medicine is not perfect, but I would have thought the sort of pain that would cause someone to limp would be treatable. I can think of a few explanations, anyone have any other ideas?
1. The character is a muggle, and therefore hasn't had the benefit of magical medicine.
2. The charcter is a historical figure, and when he was alive magical medicine was not as developed as it is today.
3. His injury is highly unusual and therefore the healers have been unable to help him.
4. The character has just been hurt and has not yet had time to visit the healers.
<(')
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Luanee - Apr 13, 2005 10:11 pm (#313 of 1448)
I kind of agree with Wynnleaf... I was thinking the HBP may just appear as a statue or a symbolic person, and not necessary exist in flesh and blood in the next book.
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The giant squid - Apr 13, 2005 11:10 pm (#314 of 1448)
For those of you who preordered through Amazon, I received an e-mail a couple days ago (I know, I'm slacking...) announcing that HBP will be delivered on the release date. There were exceptions, such as it must be reserved before July 11th (as if any of us could wait that long!), does not apply to orders of more than 8 copies (which some of you might qualify for) and does not apply in the event of service failures beyond their control (i.e. the delivery truck breaks down).
--Mike
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Ydnam96 - Apr 13, 2005 11:15 pm (#315 of 1448)
Well, Moody walks with a limp and a thump because he is missing a leg...maybe they didn't have skellegrow when he had his "accident"???
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septentrion - Apr 14, 2005 12:07 am (#316 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
They would have need some "flesh grow" as well along with skele-grow.
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Suspero - Apr 14, 2005 7:58 am (#317 of 1448)
Professor
Rather than trying to figure out who might be HBP by analyzing individual characters and their potential wouldn't the identity of the HBP more likely be someone who can tie all the threads of the story together, a kind of linch-pin if you will?
I suspect that the character JKR revealed who looks rather like an old lion and walks with a limp is a new prof. at Hogwarts and may be either an animagus feline or demonstrate some other traits that tie in with that feline chapter title. I just don't feel that at this point the HBP is going to be an entirely new and unheard of introduction. I'm expecting to slap myself in the forehead come July and say, "Of course!"
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S.E. Jones - Apr 14, 2005 10:42 am (#318 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--I just don't feel that at this point the HBP is going to be an entirely new and unheard of introduction.--
But if the description is of someone in a portrait, it could be someone we've been introduced to before, in reference at least. For instance, if the excerpt is describing the portrait of Godric Gryffindor on Dumbledore's office wall, then we've been introduced to him in terms of Hogwarts history.
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Suspero - Apr 14, 2005 11:07 am (#319 of 1448)
Professor
Well... it doesn't sound like a description of a portrait. "Walks with a limp" has a definite feeling of meeting someone in one's own space. However, it could be a description of seeing someone in a "historical" context such as in the Pensieve.
But it seems to me like an appraisal on meeting either someone in The Order or a new professor.
And I keep thinking of "lion", "mane" and that feline chapter title. Of course, there's always Crookshanks...
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Ladybug220 - Apr 14, 2005 2:30 pm (#320 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Keep in mind that the portraits move so we could be meeting a portrait rather than seeing someone in the Pensieve.
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Veritaserum - Apr 14, 2005 4:54 pm (#321 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Yeah, portraits do move, but they don't really walk, do they? Unless he was originally painted like at the end of a really long hall or something.
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MoonRider - Apr 14, 2005 5:03 pm (#322 of 1448)
Veritaserum: "Yeah, portraits do move, but they don't really walk, do they?"
I'm thinking they do-----the Fat Lady went to visit her friend, Sir Cadogan is always running around, and Phineas Nigellus went from Hogwarts to #12GP.....
also, Headmistress Derwent went from Hogwarts to St. Mungo's
I think I'm forgetting a couple.....
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 14, 2005 8:40 pm (#323 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Could one of the portraits be the new DADA teacher. If they can talk and move around their frame. Even a picture would be better the Umbridge.
Mikie
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Suspero - Apr 14, 2005 8:42 pm (#324 of 1448)
Professor
I'm going to venture a little speculation:
- in book 5 there were exploding toilets in Muggle parks, I'll bet there'll be a whole lot more of wizards baiting and bashing Muggles
- in book 5 we were introduced to Luna and the wizarding world's tabloids, I'm guessing there'll be the wizarding world's version of a media war now that Fudge is out of the way
- JKR has said that the war within the wizarding world is going to escalate so I bet we see the Dark Mark more than once
- in short, I'm just guessing that it's all going to be crazy and fast and furious and almost too much to keep up with -- plus even tougher lessons now that they're past O.W.L.s
Whatdaya think?
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S.E. Jones - Apr 15, 2005 10:56 am (#325 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--Yeah, portraits do move, but they don't really walk, do they?-- Veritaserum
Portraits walk within their frames as well as being able to move between frames. We got to see Sir Cadogan walk:
A fat, dapple-gray pony had just ambled onto the grass and was grazing nonchalantly. Harry was used to the subjects of Hogwarts paintings moving around and leaving their frames to visit one another, but he always enjoyed watching it. A moment later, a short, squat knight in a suit of armor clanked into the picture after his pony.
They watched in astonishment as the little knight tugged his sword out of its scabbard and began brandishing it violently, hopping up and down in rage. But the sword was too long for him; a particularly violent swing made him overbalance, and he landed facedown in the grass.
And he ran, clanking loudly, into the left side of the frame and out of sight.
In each of those examples we got to see Cadogan interact with his portrait and run, walk, fall down, etc.
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Veritaserum - Apr 15, 2005 8:09 pm (#326 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, I see what you mean. But still, I think that the description of the lion-like man would have to be a real person that Harry actually encounters or observes.
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Melly - Apr 15, 2005 11:29 pm (#327 of 1448)
I think the lion-like man in the teaser that JKR released is Godric Gryffindor and Harry sees him through the pensieve. I am in two minds about whether he is the HBP or not though. I think it would make sense for the HBP to be a historical figure and not someone that we already know, such as Hagrid for example. Well that's just what I think. Sorry, pretty pointless post really!
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Catherine - Apr 16, 2005 5:09 am (#328 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
I think the lion-like man in the teaser that JKR released is Godric Gryffindor and Harry sees him through the pensieve.
That's an interesting thought, but I keep wondering how Dumbledore would have access to memories of someone who lived a thousand years ago. The only way I can think of is perhaps the Sorting Hat?
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scoop2172000 - Apr 16, 2005 6:27 am (#329 of 1448)
Somehow, Tom Riddle had made some sort of mental connection to Salazzar Slytherin, so it might make sense that Dumbledore may have done the same with Godric Gryffindor.
That Gryffindor connection being the Sorting Hat is an interesting theory. It makes sense, given how much importance JKR has assigned to the Sorting Hat in general and particularly in the Chamber of Secrets, where the Sorting Hat plays a pivotal role. Remember: she's told us some crucial clues to the remainder of the series are found in Chamber of Secrets.
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Chemyst - Apr 16, 2005 9:04 am (#330 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...accessing the memories of the Sorting Hat, complete with video, not just chatting. Hmm... That opens very interesting possibilities.
Another possible source might be Professor Binns. The Lexicon hasn't listed any specific dates of his teaching and as a ghost, he may have been there a very long time, possibly as an eyewitness to some events. He is not as old as the founding of Hogwarts (as we can know by his comments on the Chamber of Secrets in CS) but he's probably been there quite a while.
NHNick would be able to give eyewitness accountings of 500 year-old events, the approximate half-way point in Hogwarts history. JKR has no shortage of access to the past.
As for the leonine man teaser, I was struck by the yin/yang, part/counterpart, complementing description of the statue where Ginny was found: "It was ancient and monkeyish, with a long thin beard that fell almost to the bottom of the wizards sweeping robes where two enormous grey feet stood on the smooth Chamber floor." (That must have been some stone carver who could sculpt "sweeping" robes on a figure standing stone still!) Compare that with "He looked rather like an old lion.[...] his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows [...] a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp..."
There are just so many contrasts stuffed into these two sentences – lion/monkey, mane/thin beard, tawny/grey, walks/stood – that I wonder if this is significant.
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frogface - Apr 16, 2005 2:15 pm (#331 of 1448)
Well done! I'd never noticed that before, veeeeery interesting. Also for some reason I'd always pictured the founders as all being middle aged when they founded Hogwarts but if the statue is anything to go by then Slyterin was quite old by the time he built the chamber. So Godric being at a similar age makes sense to me, which sort of backs up the theory that he is the leonine man
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Betelgeuse Black - Apr 16, 2005 2:39 pm (#332 of 1448)
Chemyst,
Nice spotting! 25 points for your house!
I forgot the statue description in the Chamber of Secrets. That does contrast well with the leonine description.
Betelgeuse
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kabloink! - Apr 16, 2005 4:24 pm (#333 of 1448)
Optician's Assistant
Ooh! Great researching! I never thought of that comparison, either. I actually don't post much on this thread, but what if the pensieve doesn't just belong to DUmbledore? I could be mistaken, as I haven't readt the books in awhile (darn senior work...), but maybe the pensieve has been part of Hogwarts for a long time, always accessible to the headmaster. It could have been one of Godric Gryffindor's many contributions, and thus would have memories of all the headmasters in Hogwarts history. What a rich resource that would be, especially with an upcoming war. It is those who don't know their history, that are doomed to repeat it... (Sorry History major spouting random quotes from unknown sources..)
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Ydnam96 - Apr 16, 2005 7:07 pm (#334 of 1448)
Actually though you are assuming that whomever owned it before left memories in it when they died and then you are assuming that those memories would "continue" on in the pensive with their "head" dead.
It may not be possible.
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haymoni - Apr 16, 2005 7:38 pm (#335 of 1448)
Didn't Snape use Dumbledore's pensieve?
Could he have picked out Dumbledore's memories?
Could you destroy someone's pensieve memories?
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Suspero - Apr 16, 2005 8:33 pm (#336 of 1448)
Professor
Didn't Dumbledore retrieve his memories out of the Pensieve later? It doesn't seem like a storage device (I think we're all thinking of computer memory) but more like a medium -- like "I can take a memory out of my head temporarily and put it back later". In the 4th book it seemed as if a wand could store a memory, though, in the way that Voldemort's victims reappeared in ghostly fashion. Oy! My head spins at all this conjecture!
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Classicsquid592 - Apr 17, 2005 4:23 pm (#337 of 1448)
This has probably already been discussed and I do not plan to reread all of the posts I've missed in the time I've been gone, but I want to put out my new idea for who the Half-Blood Prince is. Dumbledore appears on the cover of both the US and UK editions of the book and is the only character other than Harry shown. Also in the US cover, they are looking into a device that could possibly be a pensieve and I was considering the possibility that the character described in the excerpt from the book given the first time the door opened could actually be a much younger Dumbledore seen in a pensieve memory. I know its probably way to late to be making any predictions based on the book covers but I wanted to have a chance to post my thoughts on them.
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Madam Pince - Apr 18, 2005 12:48 pm (#338 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Actually, Classicsquid, I think you've hit on one nobody's mentioned before -- at least I don't remember anybody speculating that it could be a younger Pensieve-version Dumbledore in the excerpt! You may be onto something there! I know some people thought it might be Aberforth Dumbledore, and quite a few think it's a Pensieve-version of Godric Gryffindor, but I haven't heard of it being Albus. We have a description of Dumbledore from somewhat-younger days, when Harry is "attending" the trials of the Death-Eaters via Pensieve, but that's not all that long ago, really.
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frogface - Apr 18, 2005 2:25 pm (#339 of 1448)
We also saw him 50 years younger in CoS. Its an interesting idea, but aren't Dumbledore's eyes blue?
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Hexenhammer - Apr 18, 2005 2:45 pm (#340 of 1448)
Just wondering how long has the pensive been around? Not only as an item in general but the one used by Albus? Maybe its been passed down from headmaster to headmaster in direction succession from the first one and have all sorts of memories floating around in it.
“First thing to go is your memory. The second thing is… er um…”
-Hexenhammer
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S.E. Jones - Apr 18, 2005 3:25 pm (#341 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Yes, Albus's eyes are blue, and his hair was described as ginger, if I remeber correctly....
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Suspero - Apr 18, 2005 4:23 pm (#342 of 1448)
Professor
The Sorting Hat tells Harry in Sorcerer's Stone and CoS that he could have been great in Slytherin, "it's all here in your head". Could Harry have Voldemort's memories, too? I mean, Voldemort put that scar on his forehead, transferred certain powers to him such as parseltongue, and made him very powerful in casting curses, hexes and spells (in OoP he casts a hex on Snape without even realizing he did it)... could it be that in maiking Harry his "equal" Voldemort transferred some or all of his memories? If so, maybe that's what they're looking at in the pensieve?
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Veritaserum - Apr 18, 2005 4:41 pm (#343 of 1448)
Go Jays!
SEJones, I believe Dumbledore's hair was auburn or dark red (not sure of the wording, but it's the same color as Lily's.) I have however recently learned (from the PoA movie interviews) that "ginger" is red hair. So I suppose Dumbledore's could be called ginger...
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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 18, 2005 9:06 pm (#344 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Suspero I love your theory. I have always thought that the scar was the key to the defeat of Voldemort. The idea that the thoughts that DD and Harry are looking at in the pensieve are some of Voldemorts is outstanding.
Could removing them and leaving them out possibly take away some of Harry's nightmares or headaches and make it harder for Voldemort to read Harry's thoughts?
Mikie
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MoonRider - Apr 19, 2005 3:09 am (#345 of 1448)
MickeyCee3948: It's interesting that you mentioned DD's scar, because that's where my mind has gone lately with these most recent posts. When first reading Classicsquid592's post, I thought of DD's auburn hair that we "saw" from 50 years ago-----then I happened to think about the excerpt Classicsquid592 mentioned, and wondered if DD had a limp (because of the scar on his knee). I, too, have thought-----ever since it was mentioned-----that a scar of London's underground was going to come into play some time in the future-----and, probably, in a big way.
Does anybody ever remember reading whether DD has a "slight limp"? I don't think I remember anything like that-----but it's entirely too early this morning, for me to know for sure.
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Gerald Costales - Apr 19, 2005 5:19 am (#346 of 1448)
(re: post# 330)
“I was struck by the yin/yang, part/counterpart, complementing description of the statue where Ginny was found: "It was ancient and monkeyish, with a long thin beard that fell almost to the bottom of the wizards sweeping robes where two enormous grey feet stood on the smooth Chamber floor." (That must have been some stone carver who could sculpt "sweeping" robes on a figure standing stone still!)” Chemyst
Why assume the “ancient monkeyish” figure is a statue, the Basilisk’s stare turns people and animals into stone. Even Nearly Headless Nick was affected by the Basilisk’s stare. If the “monkeyish” figure isn’t a statue but a petrified person or creature, then who could it be? An intruder? One of the Founders? (If the figure was one of the Founders, which one?)
If the Founders were the Greatest Wizards and Witches of the Day, they all could have been Animagus. Now, I’ve thought that each Founder had a special Magical ability: Slytherin - Parseltongue; which has been inherited by Tom Riddle and Harry through the “Scar”. So, wouldn’t the Heir of Gryffindor inherit “something” possibly the ability of being an Animagi?
I’ve speculated that being an Animagi was a Magical ability that Gryffindor possessed. With the exception of Rita Skeeter, all the Animagus we are aware of are Gryffindors - McGonagall, James Potter, and Wormtail. (I feel Dumbledore could be an Animagi even though no canon evidence exists concerning it.)
If the “Leonine” person is Gryffindor, I could easily see Gryffindor becoming a Lion from the teaser description - the tawny mane and yellow eyes. Also, why is Gryffindor’s mascot a Lion? Slytherin’s mascot is a Serpent for obvious reasons.
Could the “Leonine” person be the Half-Blood Prince? Only time will tell. ;-) GC
PS . . . I do believe in Spooks, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do, I do believe in Spooks . . . Oops! Am I Bad! That’s the Cowardly Lion. ;-) GC
PPS I had a dream and you were there and the “Half-Blood Prince” was in the Bookstores. ;-) GC
PPPS It couldn’t be a dream my “Scar” was hurting and it was so real! ;-) GC
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Winky Woo - Apr 19, 2005 5:36 am (#347 of 1448)
My favourite place in the world, the English Lake District
J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival, Sunday, August 15, 2004.
"How did Dumbledore get his scar in the London Underground?"
"You may find out one day. I am very fond of that scar."
I love Quick Quote Quill!
Ginger tends to be lighter than Auburn, more of an orange shade, whereas auburn has more kind of brown tones...However my other half was bright ginger when he was younger, and now is more auburn even though he is only in his 30's, who knows if he keeps all his hair it may turn white! So it could be Dumbledore...
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Catherine - Apr 19, 2005 6:36 am (#348 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Why assume the “ancient monkeyish” figure is a statue, the Basilisk’s stare turns people and animals into stone. Even Nearly Headless Nick was affected by the Basilisk’s stare. If the “monkeyish” figure isn’t a statue but a petrified person or creature, then who could it be? An intruder? One of the Founders? (If the figure was one of the Founders, which one?) --Gerald Costales
We are told that the figure is a statue of Slytherin: "Slytherin's gigantic stone face was moving....something was stirring inside the statue's mouth." (CoS, p.317, Scholastic hardback)
We are also told how huge it is. Unless Slytherin was bigger than Hagrid, I don't see how it could be a petrified version of Slytherin.
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Suspero - Apr 19, 2005 7:02 am (#349 of 1448)
Professor
Wow,Gerald Costales -- 20 points to Gryffindor (I think) for that about the mascot being a lion. I am definitely favoring the idea that the lion-like man is Gryffindor. Yup.
About my earlier conjecture that Harry might have Voldemort's memories and that may be what they're looking at in the Pensieve: Out of 5 covers so far 4 of the pictures on the covers seem to convey events late in the books (Goblet of Fire is the exception) -- could it be that what we're seeing on the cover is something crucial late in the book? Scars! Most definitely! Thanks, Winky Woo, for the JKR quote about "that scar" of Dumbledore's!
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GryffEndora - Apr 19, 2005 8:53 am (#350 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I love the connection between monkeyish Slytherin and a possible leonine Gryffindor. Once connected with the Gryffindor Lion as Gerald pointed I'm hoping that the person described on Jo's website is Gryffindor. Great thoughts everybody!
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 351 to 400)
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MoonRider - Apr 20, 2005 3:58 am (#351 of 1448)
Gerald Costales: ".....the Basilisk’s stare turns people and animals into stone. Even Nearly Headless Nick was affected by the Basilisk’s stare"
That's what I think happened to the serpents entwined on those columns in the CoS-----AND, I think they're gonna become UNpetrified, in book 6 or 7, and be part of "the war"!
"So, wouldn’t the Heir of Gryffindor inherit “something” possibly the ability of being an Animagi?"
That's a really good point!
.....BUT, if your theory is correct, I'm thinking that cuts-out Harry being Gryffindor's heir-----as some have thought him to be-----because, I can't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure that JKR said that Harry would not become an Animagus.
"I feel Dumbledore could be an Animagi even though no canon evidence exists concerning it."
I agree! I think DD is Hedwig!
"Also, why is Gryffindor’s mascot a Lion?"
For some reason, I just thought of something-----I don't know why I didn't think of it, before.....
I think it's interesting that when I visited Edinburgh Castle, the tour guide said, something like: "Have you ever noticed the difference between the lion seen on English emblems, and the lion seen on Scottish emblems? The English lion is lying down-----he's a bit lazy, he is. The Scottish lion, however, is standing-up-----he's proud-----ready to fight and defend....."
I've read, somewhere, that Hogwarts is in Scotland-----and all of the Gryffindor emblems, I've seen, have a lion on them, that is standing-up.
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Tomoé - Apr 20, 2005 7:12 am (#352 of 1448)
Back in business
"So, wouldn’t the Heir of Gryffindor inherit “something” possibly the ability of being an Animagus?"
I think I missed a chapter or two, where do we learn that the ability of being an Animagus is passed down through generation? I was under the impression anyone could become animagus as long as the spend enough energy to learn and cast the spell correctly ....
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Tomoé - Apr 20, 2005 3:18 pm (#353 of 1448)
Back in business
Thanks Andrew!
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Regan of Gong - Apr 20, 2005 8:41 pm (#354 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
That's what I think happened to the serpents entwined on those columns in the CoS-----AND, I think they're gonna become UNpetrified, in book 6 or 7, and be part of "the war"!
Moonrider
Does mandrake potion work on animals, a la Mrs Norris?, and while I'm thinking about it, how do you feed a petrified person, let alone a ghost, mandrake potion. They can't exactly swallow...
How many things do you think may have been petrified by various basilisks before the potion was discovered? Could be interesting to see 'em all come back
Reegz
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dizzy lizzy - Apr 20, 2005 8:56 pm (#355 of 1448)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
How many things do you think may have been petrified by various basilisks before the potion was discovered? Could be interesting to see 'em all come back Reegz
Oh my. I don't even want to think about all the potential "frozen/unfrozen" victims floating around this story. My head hurts just thinking of it!
Lizzy
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Regan of Gong - Apr 21, 2005 3:33 am (#356 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Ghosts can't swallow or eat at all, Nearly Headless Nick says so at one of the start-of-term feasts. Hmmmm...I do wonder how it's done...
Also, would it matter if you poured the potion down their lungs. Isn't that what happens if you just tip something down your throat. I've never really tried it...
Reegz
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Gerald Costales - Apr 21, 2005 6:14 am (#357 of 1448)
"We are told that the figure is a statue of Slytherin: "Slytherin's gigantic stone face was moving....something was stirring inside the statue's mouth." (CoS, p.317, Scholastic hardback)
We are also told how huge it is. Unless Slytherin was bigger than Hagrid, I don't see how it could be a petrified version of Slytherin." Catherine
Thanks for the correction. I should have remembered the scene from the Movie.
I still thing there must be something that Gryffindor will pass down to his "Heir". If Harry isn't Gryffindor's Heir then how about being Gryffindor's champion.
Back to the HBP. My short list for the HBP is still -
. . . . . . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor - I also think he is the "leonine" figure described in JKR's website.
. . . . . . . . . . 2. And both Remus Lupin & Dean Thomas - they are both Half-Bloods. And either could be Princes. You never know.
Isn't it July 16th yet. ;-) GC
PS Why does Slytherin look "monkeyish"? Serpent-like makes more sense. ;-) GC
PPS I doubt Dumbledore is the HBP. But Dumbledore could be Gryffindor's Heir. After all who better to confront Salazar's Heir than Gryffindor's Heir. ;-) GC
PPPS Godric may have left something for his Heir. Fawkes, hey every heir deserves a pet. Salazar left Tom a Basilisk. ;-) GC
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Tomoé - Apr 21, 2005 7:10 am (#358 of 1448)
Back in business
Gerald Costales -> I still thing there must be something that Gryffindor will pass down to his "Heir". If Harry isn't Gryffindor's Heir then how about being Gryffindor's champion.
I think it will happen that way, blood mattered for Slytherin, not for the three other founders, I can't see Gryffindor trusting a far away descendant to share his view, the odds are not that high. The Sorting Hat has recognised Harry has Gryffindor's spirit, being of Gryffindor's blood is therefore irrelevant. There could be more to that sword that meet the eye. And there could be Ravenclaw's champion and Hufflepuff's champion as well. Or even Slytherin's champion, maybe the hat will "disown" Tom Riddle ...
Gerald Costales -> Why does Slytherin look "monkeyish"? Serpent-like makes more sense
Did you ever see medieval arts? Some do have a "monkeyish" look with their long arms and legs, their big hands.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 21, 2005 7:56 am (#359 of 1448)
We've heard that the U.K. version of the audiobook will be released Aug. 25, but I wonder whether the U.S. version will come out that day as well. I hope Jim Dale performs the U.S. version. I have all five of the U.S. audiobooks on CD. They're a joy to listen to.
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Daisy Pennifold - Apr 21, 2005 9:09 am (#360 of 1448)
Tomoe, your post made me think of a few questions:
Is Harry considered Hogwarts Champion, after winning the Tri-Wizard Tournament? Was it just during the tournament? Or has the whole affair been pushed aside out of respect for Cedric Diggory?
Will any of the affair of the tournament have any bearing in the next book?
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Veritaserum - Apr 21, 2005 9:29 pm (#361 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Daisy Pennifold: "Will any of the affair of the tournament have any bearing in the next book?"
I've thought myself that the Goblet of Fire should have a bigger role to fulfill in a later book, because it seemed odd to name a whole 700+ page novel after something that only appears briefly. I mean, compared to the other books, whose titles basically mention the main conflict or mystery of the storyline. And the Triwizard Tournament took up many of those 700+ pages and doesn't seem to have had much purpose besides what it served in that book. So I hope it will have some significance later on. Though I have to say, I don't blame JKR if it doesn't.
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The giant squid - Apr 22, 2005 5:28 am (#362 of 1448)
Well, in all honesty, the Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone only shows up at the very end (and briefly at the beginning when Hagrid retrieves it from the vault, but we don't know that's what it is at the time) of the first book. The rest of the story is dealing identifying it, finding out that someone's after it, etc. Basically, it's all about the Stone without the stone itself being involved.
It's the same with the Goblet of Fire. It has a very small amount of "screen" time, but its presence is felt throughout the book.
That said, I would like something of GoF to carry over. We heard a lot about Cedric's death in OotP, but not much about Harry being the Triwizard Champion. I mean c'mon, he's already The Boy That Lived, now this on top of it? Someone's gotta find that worth talking about.
--Mike
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Catherine - Apr 22, 2005 5:56 am (#363 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
We heard a lot about Cedric's death in OotP, but not much about Harry being the Triwizard Champion. I mean c'mon, he's already The Boy That Lived, now this on top of it? Someone's gotta find that worth talking about. --Mike
I remember that Hermione believed that Fudge was keeping the Triwizard events under wraps. At the end of GoF, I assumed that this was to gloss over Cedric's death and avoid any public panic over Voldemort's return to his body and full power.
After I read OoP, I saw how desperate Fudge was to discredit Harry, and it makes sense that he would not want to emphasize Harry's win, or his abilities.
Mike brings up a good point. Now I wonder if Harry will be gettting any public kudos for his Triwizard win in HBP.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 22, 2005 6:51 am (#364 of 1448)
I think Harry will get more kudos for having escaped the resurrected Voldemort and having the courage to stick by his story in the face of ridicule. At the end of OotP, he went from being an outcast to being a hero.
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Daisy Pennifold - Apr 22, 2005 7:26 am (#365 of 1448)
When I hear "Hogwarts Champion", (aside from giggling a little at the way we are all able to take a word like 'Hogwarts' so seriously) I take it in two different ways. In one way I think of Harry as a kind of a sports star, like the quarterback of a football team in High School, someone whom everyone knows and admires for being a winner, etc. He already has that with Quidditch, though.
The other way I think of it is as a knight defender - in a rather medieval sense (Or a Redwall-ian sense, if you read that series). Harry has proven himself through his trials, and is now fit to be Champion of Hogwarts - its defender and warrior. It is, rather on a smaller scale, the way in which he is proving himself to the wizarding world by battling Voldemort outside of school.
I don't know that Harry wants more kudos, but I do wonder if being named Champion brings more responsibility. His duties as Champion haven't surfaced yet, but there was a lot going on that upset the normal running of the school, what with Umbridge and all.
Dumbledore didn't make him a prefect because he had "enough to be going on with." Was he thinking about Harry winning the Tri-Wizard as well? Is there more for Harry to do with that? What would have been the winner's role the next school year if no one had died?
I understand the hush factor, but is everyone just going to forget about it? In the Hog's Head, Harry talked to the other students about all "of the wonderful things he does", and I was surprised at how little everyone seemed to know of his deeds, considering that this is a boarding school full of teenagers and gossipy portraits!
I realize Jo has a lot of stuff to wedge into seven books, but I don't believe that something as monumental and rare as a Triwizard Tournament should be swept under the rug forever. But what would Harry's being champion have to do with the Half-Blood Prince (if anything)? I guess that's my real question.
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Veritaserum - Apr 22, 2005 1:26 pm (#366 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Well, if you think about it, Daisy, one of Harry's duties as Champion could already have been put into action with the DA.
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Daisy Pennifold - Apr 22, 2005 1:29 pm (#367 of 1448)
Good, V.Serum! That's the kind of thing I mean.
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MoonRider - Apr 22, 2005 1:29 pm (#368 of 1448)
scoop2172000: "We've heard that the U.K. version of the audiobook will be released Aug. 25....."
I'm thinking I saw that advertised, as well-----but I'm thinking it was in regard to OotP?
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scoop2172000 - Apr 23, 2005 6:11 am (#369 of 1448)
MoonRider, the Aug. 25 date is for HBP. The UK publisher announced the news earlier this week. Brief articles about the news release are on several of the fan sites, such as Mugglenet.
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Gerald Costales - Apr 23, 2005 9:14 am (#370 of 1448)
I feel a lot of the threads are slowing down. The slow down in posting is in part because the 6th Book release is fast approaching. But mostly because many of the topics have been hashed and rehashed. But, unlike the Sorcerer’s/Philosopher’s Stone and Goblet of Fire, the Half-Blood Prince is a person. A person unknown and probably very important to the conclusion of the Series.
The Chamber of Secrets may have additional secrets. It wasn’t as far as we know resealed. But a rotting Basilisk may prevent most from returning to the Chamber for any futher secrets. The Prisoner of Azkaban, Sirius is dead (or his he). The Order of the Phoenix is alive and well and we can expect to see it throughout the remainder of the Series as the Order does Battle with the Death Eaters and Voldermort.
Come on until Book 6 is released there should be a little more debate about – Who and What the Half-Blood Prince’s importance is to the Series. Sirius is still very important even in death. Harry will certainly be dealing with Sirius’s death in Book 6. Harry will not be ignoring Sirius’s death like he ignored Cedric’s death. Harry is not unfeeling but Sirius was his Godfather. Harry also returned with Cedric’s body. While Sirius just fell through “the Veil”. (You know that “Closure” thing. Yes, Harry needs "Closure" to move on.)
If a subplot of the Chamber of Secrets was who was the Heir of Slytherin, then I believe a subplot of the Half-Blood Prince will be who is the Heir of Gryffindor. Firstly, I don’t think any of the main characters are Gryffindor’s Heir. (Not Harry, Dumbledore, etc.) Is the Half-Blood Prince the Heir of Gryffindor? If the HBP is Godric than definitely no. If the HBP is either Remus Lupin or Dean Thomas than probably yes. (The dual Heirs could easily been included in Book 2, but maybe the role and purpose of Gryffindor’s Heir again was better presented in Book 6. Remember the Half-Blood Prince was a possible title for Book 2.)
What will the Heir of Gryffindor give to Harry to help defeat Voldermort? I think that both the House-Elves and Wandless Magic may help defeat the Death Eaters and Voldermort. But will the HBP be the one to rally the House-Elves against Voldermort or will the HBP train Harry with the “Power” to defeat Voldermort. (The “One” who will defeat the Dark Lord has “powers” the Dark Lord knows not. That “power” could easily be love but then again maybe not.) Well, there is July 16th to look forward to. ;-) GC
PS Could the “power” be merely Harry's “Holly Wand”? ;-) GC
PPS Why do I think Fawkes somehow as more to offer than providing tail feathers as Wand cores? Isn't all about Fawkes! ;-) GC
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GryffEndora - Apr 23, 2005 11:04 am (#371 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Gerald Costales - The Chamber of Secrets may have additional secrets. It wasn't as far as we know resealed. But a rotting Basilisk may prevent most from returning to the Chamber for any further secrets.
However, the fact that the only way you can open the chamber is to speak Parseltongue to the spigot in Moaning Myrtle's Bathroom may keep people out. Either Harry would have to open it or another Parseltongue would have to come to the school, find the opening and open it, (which would seem redundant to me).
Harry will not be ignoring Sirius’s death like he ignored Cedric’s death.
Yes, Harry will definately be dealing with Sirius' death in HBP but I think it's a little harsh to say he ignored Cedric's. He was haunted by nightmares about Cedric dying and LV returning. He did talk about it with Ron & Hermione. He did not want to talk about it with Cho or anyone else at The Hogs Head that day and I think that is reasonable. Harry is an only child who has been left to fend for himself most of his life. The only people who have been there for him appeared recently; Ron, Hermione, Sirius, Lupin, DD, The Weasleys. All of these people kept valuable information from Harry during his summer break. Even though they told him everything they knew once he arrived at headquarters and explained why they did it they still kept things from him. This is an issue of trust. As much as Harry trusts them he is also distrusting both from his experience from the Dursleys and the past summer. Not to mention the fact that dealing with the events of Cedric's death means dealing with LV being back, something Harry spent all of OotP trying to convince people about. He didn't ignore Cedric's death, but I agree that he hasn't fully dealt with it either.
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Tomoé - Apr 23, 2005 11:11 am (#372 of 1448)
Back in business
I believe the half-blood Prince come from the past, form the founders' era. He have something to do with the rift, he could be the cause of Slytherin's hatered of muggle related wizards, or could have made a prophecy regarding how long the rift will last and how it will end, something like that anyway.
I also believe the leonine man is the DADA teacher, we had hints about Lupin, Moody and Umbridge, but not a single clue about the next one (unless his name is McClaggan).
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S.E. Jones - Apr 23, 2005 3:10 pm (#373 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--we had hints about Lupin, Moody and Umbridge, but not a single clue about the next one-- Tomoe
Do you mean before the books were released? I remember JKR saying the Book 5 professor would be a woman, but I don't remember any hints about Lupin or Moody. Can you find the quotes for me?
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Suspero - Apr 23, 2005 3:18 pm (#374 of 1448)
Professor
I'm still pondering what Harry might have gotten from Voldemort. I was hoping someone might have some more insights about whether Harry might have Voldemort's memories?
About the identity of the HBP, it still seems to me that it would have to sort well with CoS because JKR said that book was originally titled theHBP and that the story was originally part of that book. Any more insights on that?
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Ticker - Apr 25, 2005 10:59 am (#375 of 1448)
"Ah do it!"
Edited by Apr 25, 2005 11:01 am
I loved reading all the thinking going on in this thread - you all are awesome. I only wish I had insights to help you Suspero. I agree with your last statement about HBP & CoS sorting well. My gut reaction is that the HBP is Tom Riddle - I guess at it because I haven't got any insights.
Regarding the petrification/statue issue a while back. I don't remember JKR ever saying people turned to stone, just that they were petrified. Not only is size an issue with some of the statues, but I imagine they look completely different than a petrified being. In all fairness, I don't recall all the statues as being discribed as carved stone, but I think it might be remarkable if they weren't.
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Madam Pince - Apr 25, 2005 11:28 am (#376 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I remember being extremely irritated by the TV Guide description for the movie "Chamber of Secrets," because it said something like "The second in JK Rowling's smash hit series, in which Hogwarts students are being turned to stone." I think a lot of people use the terms "petrified" and "turned to stone" interchangably, but to me they are usually two very different things. I don't think the statues throughout Hogwarts are anything but statues carved from stone or marble or whatever. But I think Ticker is right; I don't think JKR really specified it. ***waves at Ticker and hopes Baby Aria (?) is doing well!***
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Madam Pince - Apr 25, 2005 12:14 pm (#377 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I knew somebody would bring up the geological definition!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Apr 25, 2005 12:16 pm (#378 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
And I had the sneeky idea it might be Andrew! LOL
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So Sirius - Apr 25, 2005 3:36 pm (#379 of 1448)
I wonder if this person who fits the description of a lion with a limp might be DD in his much younger days. Perhaps after his defeat of the past Dark Wizard when he got his scar, he was hurt and thus the limp. I know the hair was past described as tawny not ginger and this might be a problem, I can't sort that out, but otherwise, it could be him. Maybe Harry and DD are watching a scene of his past memories in the pensieve on this issue and Harry sees this person she described, to be DD. I put this under HBP because it seems to me if this is the case, DD will be the HBP. I've really teetered on this, from Draco to DD and all over the map, but with good reason, it's not easy to figure out from so far away from the book.
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KWeldon - Apr 25, 2005 4:19 pm (#380 of 1448)
Ticker, JKR has stated that the HbP is not Harry or Voldemort/Tom Riddle.
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Ticker - Apr 25, 2005 5:25 pm (#381 of 1448)
"Ah do it!"
Oh. KWeldon - there's more info for me to catch up on than is physically possible, but that's a pretty big catch so thanks!
(Waves back at Madam Pince...) We're doing great, thanks! When $12 isn't a huge amount of money I'll get an avatar back up to show her off.
Very Serius I will now change my gut reaction to DD as the HBP - right after I find out where the limping lion reference is from...
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Aqualu Nifey - Apr 25, 2005 6:21 pm (#382 of 1448)
"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
Right, about Dumbledore's scar...
I was in History the other day and we were talking about World War I. My teacher mentioned that the British civilians stayed in the tunnels of the London Underground to hide from the Germans and the bombshells. (I let out this loud "Oh!" my teacher was kind of worried) Maybe Dumbledore's knoweledge of the Underground could save people in this Second War. Or maybe JKR has this backstory where the scar helped people in the First War. JM2K
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GryffEndora - Apr 26, 2005 9:23 am (#383 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
From the Lexicon:
Grindelwald
The dark wizard that Dumbledore defeated in 1945 (SS6 & 13). Because of the year of Grindelwald's defeat, which is stated on the Chocolate Frog card about Dumbledore, some have speculated that Grindelwald and Hitler were the same person or that Grindelwald was somehow related to the events of World War II.
Nice catch Aqualu Nifey! Perhaps DD is the champion of Mudbloods and Muggles partly because of his heroic efforts to protect Muggles in WWII with the use of his handy map/scar!
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Dumbledore - Apr 26, 2005 10:52 am (#384 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Just to point out, the "turning people to stone" reference comes from the inside cover of Chamber of Secrets, at least in the American edition. Does JKR write the inside cover of her books? If so, what could she be implying because in the rest of the book the term 'petrified' is used?
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Regan of Gong - Apr 26, 2005 11:42 pm (#385 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
"Hmm... I just ran an internet search, and it appears that Grindelwald is the name of a place in Switzerland"
Chocolatelatte - Oct 12, 2002 12:52 pm (#5 of 81)
I did that as well, and a crazy idea came to me. Grindelwald was a dark wizard. He came from Switzerland, which is cold. I was wondering if Grindelwald was perhaps the former Headmaster of Durmstrang, and needed to be defeated because he was authorising the teaching of "dark arts"
"1. Why was it necessary for Dumbledore to defeat Grindelwald?"
Kip Carter - Oct 12, 2002 4:53 am
We know that Durmstrang most probably does teach dark arts, and I wonder if the students of Durmstrang could become the "Death Nibblers" previously discussed, and could be used as a "weapon" against the students of Hogwarts
Feel free to tear my theory apart
Reegz
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Melly - Apr 27, 2005 1:10 am (#386 of 1448)
Regan of Gong I've known for a while that Grindelwald was a place in Switzerland but I have never made any sort of connection to Durmstrang. That is a good theory, thank-you for your idea.
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Harry-ette - Apr 27, 2005 3:53 am (#387 of 1448)
Good theories about Grindelwald and the Durmstrang/Switzerland connection. I'm dubious though, because all of the people from Durmstrang that we have seen so far have Eastern European sounding surnames. That limits the location of Durmstrang to places like Poland, Serbia, Russia, Latvia, etc. The names in Switzerland tend to be Italian or French
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scoop2172000 - Apr 29, 2005 6:32 am (#388 of 1448)
Audio book news, woo hoo! I'm thrilled to hear Jim Dale again is performing the U.S. version of HPB and that the audio book will be available July 16. I'm rushing over to Barnes and Noble today to pre-order my copy.
I wonder why the U.S. audio book is being released on July 16, but the British version won't come out until August 25. I find it odd.
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Mrs Brisbee - Apr 29, 2005 7:41 am (#389 of 1448)
July 16!!!!! WOOT!
I'm going to pre-order as soon as possible. This means I can listen to the tape with my husband, and I'll hold off on reading the book.
Okay, so I'll probably get the book and read it at the same time. Is there such a thing as too much Harry Potter?
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Joelle - Apr 29, 2005 12:01 pm (#390 of 1448)
Mugglenet said they were both for Jul 16th.
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 29, 2005 3:42 pm (#391 of 1448)
Not real sure about Muggle WWI, but the London Underground stations were definitely used as Air Raid Shelters in Muggle WWII, often having walls of sandbags built up around the entrances to stop stuff falling down through the doorways and give protection to whoever was acting as guards during the raids.
Aurora xx
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Apr 29, 2005 6:10 pm (#392 of 1448)
I'm listening to the audio books now. I'm glad Jim Dale is doing HBP. I've never listened to audio books before. I thought it would be a good way to pass the time before July 16. I'm really enjoying them. LPO
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Steve Newton - Apr 29, 2005 6:19 pm (#393 of 1448)
Librarian
I have a 50 or so minute drive to and from work. I'm listening to one almost all of the time. My only problem is that I have 2 formats. POA and GOF on CD and the rest on cassette.
I would like to hear the UK ones with Stephen Fry.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 30, 2005 6:31 am (#394 of 1448)
Mugglenet is reporting that the U.S. and Canadian versions of the audio book, performed by Jim Dale, will be available July 16.
The update did NOT indicate the U.K. version would be released July 16 -- in fact, Mugglenet specified that it had previously reported the U.K. version would come out August 25. I take this to mean the August 25 date still applies to the U.K audio book.
P.S. I tried to pre-order at a large Barnes and Noble store yesterday, but the store was not yet taking in-store pre-orders -- the staff suggested I pre-order the audio book on line. I'll wait a few days, then try again at the store. I plan to pick up my hardcover and audio book at the store itself on July 16 rather than waiting for home delivery. I'm lucky to be able to do so, as I live in a major city.
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Gerald Costales - May 1, 2005 10:28 am (#395 of 1448)
In regards to Dumbledore and Grindelwald, I think it could be possible that Grindelwald has a connection to Durmstrang. As to whether there is a Grindelwald and Hitler connection, I'm not sure. But, the 1945 date makes me think there is a connection to WWII and the Series. The whole Pure Blood vs Muggleborns and Half-bloods is just to similiar to the Aryan - Master Race vs everyone else and the Jewish people.
Tom Riddle lived in a London orphanage during the Blitz. And I've posted that Tom might have been influenced by Hitler. How could anyone living in London during the Blitz not know who Hilter was!!! I could easily imagine Tom listening to radio broadcasts of Hitler's speeches, etc. But, what if the HBP was Grindelwald? ;-) GC
PS The HBP being Grindelwald would certainly be a twist that would cause more questions than answers.
PPS I've always thought the HBP was a "Good Guy" but why not make him a "Bad Guy"?
PPS Or the HBP could like Snape a confusing ex-Death Eater (Bad Guy) working for Dumbledore & the Order (Good Guys). I don't have Dumbledore's total trust in Snape. After all Gilderoy must have convinced Dumbledore that he could teach DADA. Even Dumbledore is human. ;-) GC
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Tomoé - May 2, 2005 6:40 am (#396 of 1448)
Back in business
S.E. Jones -> --we had hints about Lupin, Moody and Umbridge, but not a single clue about the next one-- Tomoe
Do you mean before the books were released? I remember JKR saying the Book 5 professor would be a woman, but I don't remember any hints about Lupin or Moody. Can you find the quotes for me?
I found the quote about MEMoody, but couldn't find anything about Lupin, so my momories probably fused together and delude myself. Nevertheless, here's the quote:
Hi, my question is who’s the next Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher? [...]
I’ll tell you, it’s someone ---- he’s quite a scary character for the first time they get someone quite impressive as the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. I will tell you that for the first time you see a teacher who really takes on Draco Malfoy. [...] OK, so that’s quite cool. There’s also something very distinctive about the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher’s appearance. He’s got a magical eye. Now, I’ve given you a really big secret. That’s supposed to be a big surprise. (The Connection, 12 October, 1999)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 2, 2005 6:54 pm (#397 of 1448)
GC I have tended to think of the HBP as a "good guy". You are right though he could be a bad guy. I'm not sure how Gindelwald will fit in. There has to be more of a tie in to WW II. We know Frank Bryce had a bad war. Other than that it isn't mentioned much. LPO
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Veritaserum - May 4, 2005 2:28 pm (#398 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I guess maybe we've all assumed he is a good guy because Voldemort's around, and Voldy's pretty much as bad as it gets. For sure, 'twould be interesting, though. I find that people like Snape, who act bad but are really good, are quite intriguing characters. And also, we take Half-Blood Prince as to mean someone who likes his half-blood-ness or something to that effect.
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Finn BV - May 4, 2005 2:39 pm (#399 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Veritaserum -> And also, we take Half-Blood Prince as to mean someone who likes his half-blood-ness
Not necessarily. If you speculate that the HBP could be Draco (since we aren't sure of Lucius' heritage completely), I don't think Draco would be running around celebrating his being half-blood.
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Finn BV - May 4, 2005 2:44 pm (#400 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Andrew, I thought we had come up with theories that although we know Narcissa's pure, Lucius could be lying. Where in the books or on her website does it say that? I'm ready to believe you, but I think Draco=HBP is the best HBP idea I've heard.
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Gerald Costales: ".....the Basilisk’s stare turns people and animals into stone. Even Nearly Headless Nick was affected by the Basilisk’s stare"
That's what I think happened to the serpents entwined on those columns in the CoS-----AND, I think they're gonna become UNpetrified, in book 6 or 7, and be part of "the war"!
"So, wouldn’t the Heir of Gryffindor inherit “something” possibly the ability of being an Animagi?"
That's a really good point!
.....BUT, if your theory is correct, I'm thinking that cuts-out Harry being Gryffindor's heir-----as some have thought him to be-----because, I can't swear to it, but I'm pretty sure that JKR said that Harry would not become an Animagus.
"I feel Dumbledore could be an Animagi even though no canon evidence exists concerning it."
I agree! I think DD is Hedwig!
"Also, why is Gryffindor’s mascot a Lion?"
For some reason, I just thought of something-----I don't know why I didn't think of it, before.....
I think it's interesting that when I visited Edinburgh Castle, the tour guide said, something like: "Have you ever noticed the difference between the lion seen on English emblems, and the lion seen on Scottish emblems? The English lion is lying down-----he's a bit lazy, he is. The Scottish lion, however, is standing-up-----he's proud-----ready to fight and defend....."
I've read, somewhere, that Hogwarts is in Scotland-----and all of the Gryffindor emblems, I've seen, have a lion on them, that is standing-up.
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Tomoé - Apr 20, 2005 7:12 am (#352 of 1448)
Back in business
"So, wouldn’t the Heir of Gryffindor inherit “something” possibly the ability of being an Animagus?"
I think I missed a chapter or two, where do we learn that the ability of being an Animagus is passed down through generation? I was under the impression anyone could become animagus as long as the spend enough energy to learn and cast the spell correctly ....
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Tomoé - Apr 20, 2005 3:18 pm (#353 of 1448)
Back in business
Thanks Andrew!
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Regan of Gong - Apr 20, 2005 8:41 pm (#354 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
That's what I think happened to the serpents entwined on those columns in the CoS-----AND, I think they're gonna become UNpetrified, in book 6 or 7, and be part of "the war"!
Moonrider
Does mandrake potion work on animals, a la Mrs Norris?, and while I'm thinking about it, how do you feed a petrified person, let alone a ghost, mandrake potion. They can't exactly swallow...
How many things do you think may have been petrified by various basilisks before the potion was discovered? Could be interesting to see 'em all come back
Reegz
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dizzy lizzy - Apr 20, 2005 8:56 pm (#355 of 1448)
There is more to life than increasing its speed: Mahatama Ghandi.
How many things do you think may have been petrified by various basilisks before the potion was discovered? Could be interesting to see 'em all come back Reegz
Oh my. I don't even want to think about all the potential "frozen/unfrozen" victims floating around this story. My head hurts just thinking of it!
Lizzy
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Regan of Gong - Apr 21, 2005 3:33 am (#356 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Ghosts can't swallow or eat at all, Nearly Headless Nick says so at one of the start-of-term feasts. Hmmmm...I do wonder how it's done...
Also, would it matter if you poured the potion down their lungs. Isn't that what happens if you just tip something down your throat. I've never really tried it...
Reegz
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Gerald Costales - Apr 21, 2005 6:14 am (#357 of 1448)
"We are told that the figure is a statue of Slytherin: "Slytherin's gigantic stone face was moving....something was stirring inside the statue's mouth." (CoS, p.317, Scholastic hardback)
We are also told how huge it is. Unless Slytherin was bigger than Hagrid, I don't see how it could be a petrified version of Slytherin." Catherine
Thanks for the correction. I should have remembered the scene from the Movie.
I still thing there must be something that Gryffindor will pass down to his "Heir". If Harry isn't Gryffindor's Heir then how about being Gryffindor's champion.
Back to the HBP. My short list for the HBP is still -
. . . . . . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor - I also think he is the "leonine" figure described in JKR's website.
. . . . . . . . . . 2. And both Remus Lupin & Dean Thomas - they are both Half-Bloods. And either could be Princes. You never know.
Isn't it July 16th yet. ;-) GC
PS Why does Slytherin look "monkeyish"? Serpent-like makes more sense. ;-) GC
PPS I doubt Dumbledore is the HBP. But Dumbledore could be Gryffindor's Heir. After all who better to confront Salazar's Heir than Gryffindor's Heir. ;-) GC
PPPS Godric may have left something for his Heir. Fawkes, hey every heir deserves a pet. Salazar left Tom a Basilisk. ;-) GC
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Tomoé - Apr 21, 2005 7:10 am (#358 of 1448)
Back in business
Gerald Costales -> I still thing there must be something that Gryffindor will pass down to his "Heir". If Harry isn't Gryffindor's Heir then how about being Gryffindor's champion.
I think it will happen that way, blood mattered for Slytherin, not for the three other founders, I can't see Gryffindor trusting a far away descendant to share his view, the odds are not that high. The Sorting Hat has recognised Harry has Gryffindor's spirit, being of Gryffindor's blood is therefore irrelevant. There could be more to that sword that meet the eye. And there could be Ravenclaw's champion and Hufflepuff's champion as well. Or even Slytherin's champion, maybe the hat will "disown" Tom Riddle ...
Gerald Costales -> Why does Slytherin look "monkeyish"? Serpent-like makes more sense
Did you ever see medieval arts? Some do have a "monkeyish" look with their long arms and legs, their big hands.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 21, 2005 7:56 am (#359 of 1448)
We've heard that the U.K. version of the audiobook will be released Aug. 25, but I wonder whether the U.S. version will come out that day as well. I hope Jim Dale performs the U.S. version. I have all five of the U.S. audiobooks on CD. They're a joy to listen to.
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Daisy Pennifold - Apr 21, 2005 9:09 am (#360 of 1448)
Tomoe, your post made me think of a few questions:
Is Harry considered Hogwarts Champion, after winning the Tri-Wizard Tournament? Was it just during the tournament? Or has the whole affair been pushed aside out of respect for Cedric Diggory?
Will any of the affair of the tournament have any bearing in the next book?
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Veritaserum - Apr 21, 2005 9:29 pm (#361 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Daisy Pennifold: "Will any of the affair of the tournament have any bearing in the next book?"
I've thought myself that the Goblet of Fire should have a bigger role to fulfill in a later book, because it seemed odd to name a whole 700+ page novel after something that only appears briefly. I mean, compared to the other books, whose titles basically mention the main conflict or mystery of the storyline. And the Triwizard Tournament took up many of those 700+ pages and doesn't seem to have had much purpose besides what it served in that book. So I hope it will have some significance later on. Though I have to say, I don't blame JKR if it doesn't.
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The giant squid - Apr 22, 2005 5:28 am (#362 of 1448)
Well, in all honesty, the Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone only shows up at the very end (and briefly at the beginning when Hagrid retrieves it from the vault, but we don't know that's what it is at the time) of the first book. The rest of the story is dealing identifying it, finding out that someone's after it, etc. Basically, it's all about the Stone without the stone itself being involved.
It's the same with the Goblet of Fire. It has a very small amount of "screen" time, but its presence is felt throughout the book.
That said, I would like something of GoF to carry over. We heard a lot about Cedric's death in OotP, but not much about Harry being the Triwizard Champion. I mean c'mon, he's already The Boy That Lived, now this on top of it? Someone's gotta find that worth talking about.
--Mike
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Catherine - Apr 22, 2005 5:56 am (#363 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
We heard a lot about Cedric's death in OotP, but not much about Harry being the Triwizard Champion. I mean c'mon, he's already The Boy That Lived, now this on top of it? Someone's gotta find that worth talking about. --Mike
I remember that Hermione believed that Fudge was keeping the Triwizard events under wraps. At the end of GoF, I assumed that this was to gloss over Cedric's death and avoid any public panic over Voldemort's return to his body and full power.
After I read OoP, I saw how desperate Fudge was to discredit Harry, and it makes sense that he would not want to emphasize Harry's win, or his abilities.
Mike brings up a good point. Now I wonder if Harry will be gettting any public kudos for his Triwizard win in HBP.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 22, 2005 6:51 am (#364 of 1448)
I think Harry will get more kudos for having escaped the resurrected Voldemort and having the courage to stick by his story in the face of ridicule. At the end of OotP, he went from being an outcast to being a hero.
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Daisy Pennifold - Apr 22, 2005 7:26 am (#365 of 1448)
When I hear "Hogwarts Champion", (aside from giggling a little at the way we are all able to take a word like 'Hogwarts' so seriously) I take it in two different ways. In one way I think of Harry as a kind of a sports star, like the quarterback of a football team in High School, someone whom everyone knows and admires for being a winner, etc. He already has that with Quidditch, though.
The other way I think of it is as a knight defender - in a rather medieval sense (Or a Redwall-ian sense, if you read that series). Harry has proven himself through his trials, and is now fit to be Champion of Hogwarts - its defender and warrior. It is, rather on a smaller scale, the way in which he is proving himself to the wizarding world by battling Voldemort outside of school.
I don't know that Harry wants more kudos, but I do wonder if being named Champion brings more responsibility. His duties as Champion haven't surfaced yet, but there was a lot going on that upset the normal running of the school, what with Umbridge and all.
Dumbledore didn't make him a prefect because he had "enough to be going on with." Was he thinking about Harry winning the Tri-Wizard as well? Is there more for Harry to do with that? What would have been the winner's role the next school year if no one had died?
I understand the hush factor, but is everyone just going to forget about it? In the Hog's Head, Harry talked to the other students about all "of the wonderful things he does", and I was surprised at how little everyone seemed to know of his deeds, considering that this is a boarding school full of teenagers and gossipy portraits!
I realize Jo has a lot of stuff to wedge into seven books, but I don't believe that something as monumental and rare as a Triwizard Tournament should be swept under the rug forever. But what would Harry's being champion have to do with the Half-Blood Prince (if anything)? I guess that's my real question.
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Veritaserum - Apr 22, 2005 1:26 pm (#366 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Well, if you think about it, Daisy, one of Harry's duties as Champion could already have been put into action with the DA.
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Daisy Pennifold - Apr 22, 2005 1:29 pm (#367 of 1448)
Good, V.Serum! That's the kind of thing I mean.
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MoonRider - Apr 22, 2005 1:29 pm (#368 of 1448)
scoop2172000: "We've heard that the U.K. version of the audiobook will be released Aug. 25....."
I'm thinking I saw that advertised, as well-----but I'm thinking it was in regard to OotP?
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scoop2172000 - Apr 23, 2005 6:11 am (#369 of 1448)
MoonRider, the Aug. 25 date is for HBP. The UK publisher announced the news earlier this week. Brief articles about the news release are on several of the fan sites, such as Mugglenet.
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Gerald Costales - Apr 23, 2005 9:14 am (#370 of 1448)
I feel a lot of the threads are slowing down. The slow down in posting is in part because the 6th Book release is fast approaching. But mostly because many of the topics have been hashed and rehashed. But, unlike the Sorcerer’s/Philosopher’s Stone and Goblet of Fire, the Half-Blood Prince is a person. A person unknown and probably very important to the conclusion of the Series.
The Chamber of Secrets may have additional secrets. It wasn’t as far as we know resealed. But a rotting Basilisk may prevent most from returning to the Chamber for any futher secrets. The Prisoner of Azkaban, Sirius is dead (or his he). The Order of the Phoenix is alive and well and we can expect to see it throughout the remainder of the Series as the Order does Battle with the Death Eaters and Voldermort.
Come on until Book 6 is released there should be a little more debate about – Who and What the Half-Blood Prince’s importance is to the Series. Sirius is still very important even in death. Harry will certainly be dealing with Sirius’s death in Book 6. Harry will not be ignoring Sirius’s death like he ignored Cedric’s death. Harry is not unfeeling but Sirius was his Godfather. Harry also returned with Cedric’s body. While Sirius just fell through “the Veil”. (You know that “Closure” thing. Yes, Harry needs "Closure" to move on.)
If a subplot of the Chamber of Secrets was who was the Heir of Slytherin, then I believe a subplot of the Half-Blood Prince will be who is the Heir of Gryffindor. Firstly, I don’t think any of the main characters are Gryffindor’s Heir. (Not Harry, Dumbledore, etc.) Is the Half-Blood Prince the Heir of Gryffindor? If the HBP is Godric than definitely no. If the HBP is either Remus Lupin or Dean Thomas than probably yes. (The dual Heirs could easily been included in Book 2, but maybe the role and purpose of Gryffindor’s Heir again was better presented in Book 6. Remember the Half-Blood Prince was a possible title for Book 2.)
What will the Heir of Gryffindor give to Harry to help defeat Voldermort? I think that both the House-Elves and Wandless Magic may help defeat the Death Eaters and Voldermort. But will the HBP be the one to rally the House-Elves against Voldermort or will the HBP train Harry with the “Power” to defeat Voldermort. (The “One” who will defeat the Dark Lord has “powers” the Dark Lord knows not. That “power” could easily be love but then again maybe not.) Well, there is July 16th to look forward to. ;-) GC
PS Could the “power” be merely Harry's “Holly Wand”? ;-) GC
PPS Why do I think Fawkes somehow as more to offer than providing tail feathers as Wand cores? Isn't all about Fawkes! ;-) GC
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GryffEndora - Apr 23, 2005 11:04 am (#371 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Gerald Costales - The Chamber of Secrets may have additional secrets. It wasn't as far as we know resealed. But a rotting Basilisk may prevent most from returning to the Chamber for any further secrets.
However, the fact that the only way you can open the chamber is to speak Parseltongue to the spigot in Moaning Myrtle's Bathroom may keep people out. Either Harry would have to open it or another Parseltongue would have to come to the school, find the opening and open it, (which would seem redundant to me).
Harry will not be ignoring Sirius’s death like he ignored Cedric’s death.
Yes, Harry will definately be dealing with Sirius' death in HBP but I think it's a little harsh to say he ignored Cedric's. He was haunted by nightmares about Cedric dying and LV returning. He did talk about it with Ron & Hermione. He did not want to talk about it with Cho or anyone else at The Hogs Head that day and I think that is reasonable. Harry is an only child who has been left to fend for himself most of his life. The only people who have been there for him appeared recently; Ron, Hermione, Sirius, Lupin, DD, The Weasleys. All of these people kept valuable information from Harry during his summer break. Even though they told him everything they knew once he arrived at headquarters and explained why they did it they still kept things from him. This is an issue of trust. As much as Harry trusts them he is also distrusting both from his experience from the Dursleys and the past summer. Not to mention the fact that dealing with the events of Cedric's death means dealing with LV being back, something Harry spent all of OotP trying to convince people about. He didn't ignore Cedric's death, but I agree that he hasn't fully dealt with it either.
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Tomoé - Apr 23, 2005 11:11 am (#372 of 1448)
Back in business
I believe the half-blood Prince come from the past, form the founders' era. He have something to do with the rift, he could be the cause of Slytherin's hatered of muggle related wizards, or could have made a prophecy regarding how long the rift will last and how it will end, something like that anyway.
I also believe the leonine man is the DADA teacher, we had hints about Lupin, Moody and Umbridge, but not a single clue about the next one (unless his name is McClaggan).
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S.E. Jones - Apr 23, 2005 3:10 pm (#373 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--we had hints about Lupin, Moody and Umbridge, but not a single clue about the next one-- Tomoe
Do you mean before the books were released? I remember JKR saying the Book 5 professor would be a woman, but I don't remember any hints about Lupin or Moody. Can you find the quotes for me?
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Suspero - Apr 23, 2005 3:18 pm (#374 of 1448)
Professor
I'm still pondering what Harry might have gotten from Voldemort. I was hoping someone might have some more insights about whether Harry might have Voldemort's memories?
About the identity of the HBP, it still seems to me that it would have to sort well with CoS because JKR said that book was originally titled theHBP and that the story was originally part of that book. Any more insights on that?
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Ticker - Apr 25, 2005 10:59 am (#375 of 1448)
"Ah do it!"
Edited by Apr 25, 2005 11:01 am
I loved reading all the thinking going on in this thread - you all are awesome. I only wish I had insights to help you Suspero. I agree with your last statement about HBP & CoS sorting well. My gut reaction is that the HBP is Tom Riddle - I guess at it because I haven't got any insights.
Regarding the petrification/statue issue a while back. I don't remember JKR ever saying people turned to stone, just that they were petrified. Not only is size an issue with some of the statues, but I imagine they look completely different than a petrified being. In all fairness, I don't recall all the statues as being discribed as carved stone, but I think it might be remarkable if they weren't.
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Madam Pince - Apr 25, 2005 11:28 am (#376 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I remember being extremely irritated by the TV Guide description for the movie "Chamber of Secrets," because it said something like "The second in JK Rowling's smash hit series, in which Hogwarts students are being turned to stone." I think a lot of people use the terms "petrified" and "turned to stone" interchangably, but to me they are usually two very different things. I don't think the statues throughout Hogwarts are anything but statues carved from stone or marble or whatever. But I think Ticker is right; I don't think JKR really specified it. ***waves at Ticker and hopes Baby Aria (?) is doing well!***
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Madam Pince - Apr 25, 2005 12:14 pm (#377 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I knew somebody would bring up the geological definition!
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Apr 25, 2005 12:16 pm (#378 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
And I had the sneeky idea it might be Andrew! LOL
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So Sirius - Apr 25, 2005 3:36 pm (#379 of 1448)
I wonder if this person who fits the description of a lion with a limp might be DD in his much younger days. Perhaps after his defeat of the past Dark Wizard when he got his scar, he was hurt and thus the limp. I know the hair was past described as tawny not ginger and this might be a problem, I can't sort that out, but otherwise, it could be him. Maybe Harry and DD are watching a scene of his past memories in the pensieve on this issue and Harry sees this person she described, to be DD. I put this under HBP because it seems to me if this is the case, DD will be the HBP. I've really teetered on this, from Draco to DD and all over the map, but with good reason, it's not easy to figure out from so far away from the book.
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KWeldon - Apr 25, 2005 4:19 pm (#380 of 1448)
Ticker, JKR has stated that the HbP is not Harry or Voldemort/Tom Riddle.
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Ticker - Apr 25, 2005 5:25 pm (#381 of 1448)
"Ah do it!"
Oh. KWeldon - there's more info for me to catch up on than is physically possible, but that's a pretty big catch so thanks!
(Waves back at Madam Pince...) We're doing great, thanks! When $12 isn't a huge amount of money I'll get an avatar back up to show her off.
Very Serius I will now change my gut reaction to DD as the HBP - right after I find out where the limping lion reference is from...
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Aqualu Nifey - Apr 25, 2005 6:21 pm (#382 of 1448)
"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause." - Padme Amidala-Skywalker
Right, about Dumbledore's scar...
I was in History the other day and we were talking about World War I. My teacher mentioned that the British civilians stayed in the tunnels of the London Underground to hide from the Germans and the bombshells. (I let out this loud "Oh!" my teacher was kind of worried) Maybe Dumbledore's knoweledge of the Underground could save people in this Second War. Or maybe JKR has this backstory where the scar helped people in the First War. JM2K
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GryffEndora - Apr 26, 2005 9:23 am (#383 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
From the Lexicon:
Grindelwald
The dark wizard that Dumbledore defeated in 1945 (SS6 & 13). Because of the year of Grindelwald's defeat, which is stated on the Chocolate Frog card about Dumbledore, some have speculated that Grindelwald and Hitler were the same person or that Grindelwald was somehow related to the events of World War II.
Nice catch Aqualu Nifey! Perhaps DD is the champion of Mudbloods and Muggles partly because of his heroic efforts to protect Muggles in WWII with the use of his handy map/scar!
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Dumbledore - Apr 26, 2005 10:52 am (#384 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Just to point out, the "turning people to stone" reference comes from the inside cover of Chamber of Secrets, at least in the American edition. Does JKR write the inside cover of her books? If so, what could she be implying because in the rest of the book the term 'petrified' is used?
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Regan of Gong - Apr 26, 2005 11:42 pm (#385 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
"Hmm... I just ran an internet search, and it appears that Grindelwald is the name of a place in Switzerland"
Chocolatelatte - Oct 12, 2002 12:52 pm (#5 of 81)
I did that as well, and a crazy idea came to me. Grindelwald was a dark wizard. He came from Switzerland, which is cold. I was wondering if Grindelwald was perhaps the former Headmaster of Durmstrang, and needed to be defeated because he was authorising the teaching of "dark arts"
"1. Why was it necessary for Dumbledore to defeat Grindelwald?"
Kip Carter - Oct 12, 2002 4:53 am
We know that Durmstrang most probably does teach dark arts, and I wonder if the students of Durmstrang could become the "Death Nibblers" previously discussed, and could be used as a "weapon" against the students of Hogwarts
Feel free to tear my theory apart
Reegz
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Melly - Apr 27, 2005 1:10 am (#386 of 1448)
Regan of Gong I've known for a while that Grindelwald was a place in Switzerland but I have never made any sort of connection to Durmstrang. That is a good theory, thank-you for your idea.
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Harry-ette - Apr 27, 2005 3:53 am (#387 of 1448)
Good theories about Grindelwald and the Durmstrang/Switzerland connection. I'm dubious though, because all of the people from Durmstrang that we have seen so far have Eastern European sounding surnames. That limits the location of Durmstrang to places like Poland, Serbia, Russia, Latvia, etc. The names in Switzerland tend to be Italian or French
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scoop2172000 - Apr 29, 2005 6:32 am (#388 of 1448)
Audio book news, woo hoo! I'm thrilled to hear Jim Dale again is performing the U.S. version of HPB and that the audio book will be available July 16. I'm rushing over to Barnes and Noble today to pre-order my copy.
I wonder why the U.S. audio book is being released on July 16, but the British version won't come out until August 25. I find it odd.
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Mrs Brisbee - Apr 29, 2005 7:41 am (#389 of 1448)
July 16!!!!! WOOT!
I'm going to pre-order as soon as possible. This means I can listen to the tape with my husband, and I'll hold off on reading the book.
Okay, so I'll probably get the book and read it at the same time. Is there such a thing as too much Harry Potter?
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Joelle - Apr 29, 2005 12:01 pm (#390 of 1448)
Mugglenet said they were both for Jul 16th.
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Aurora Gubbins - Apr 29, 2005 3:42 pm (#391 of 1448)
Not real sure about Muggle WWI, but the London Underground stations were definitely used as Air Raid Shelters in Muggle WWII, often having walls of sandbags built up around the entrances to stop stuff falling down through the doorways and give protection to whoever was acting as guards during the raids.
Aurora xx
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Apr 29, 2005 6:10 pm (#392 of 1448)
I'm listening to the audio books now. I'm glad Jim Dale is doing HBP. I've never listened to audio books before. I thought it would be a good way to pass the time before July 16. I'm really enjoying them. LPO
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Steve Newton - Apr 29, 2005 6:19 pm (#393 of 1448)
Librarian
I have a 50 or so minute drive to and from work. I'm listening to one almost all of the time. My only problem is that I have 2 formats. POA and GOF on CD and the rest on cassette.
I would like to hear the UK ones with Stephen Fry.
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scoop2172000 - Apr 30, 2005 6:31 am (#394 of 1448)
Mugglenet is reporting that the U.S. and Canadian versions of the audio book, performed by Jim Dale, will be available July 16.
The update did NOT indicate the U.K. version would be released July 16 -- in fact, Mugglenet specified that it had previously reported the U.K. version would come out August 25. I take this to mean the August 25 date still applies to the U.K audio book.
P.S. I tried to pre-order at a large Barnes and Noble store yesterday, but the store was not yet taking in-store pre-orders -- the staff suggested I pre-order the audio book on line. I'll wait a few days, then try again at the store. I plan to pick up my hardcover and audio book at the store itself on July 16 rather than waiting for home delivery. I'm lucky to be able to do so, as I live in a major city.
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Gerald Costales - May 1, 2005 10:28 am (#395 of 1448)
In regards to Dumbledore and Grindelwald, I think it could be possible that Grindelwald has a connection to Durmstrang. As to whether there is a Grindelwald and Hitler connection, I'm not sure. But, the 1945 date makes me think there is a connection to WWII and the Series. The whole Pure Blood vs Muggleborns and Half-bloods is just to similiar to the Aryan - Master Race vs everyone else and the Jewish people.
Tom Riddle lived in a London orphanage during the Blitz. And I've posted that Tom might have been influenced by Hitler. How could anyone living in London during the Blitz not know who Hilter was!!! I could easily imagine Tom listening to radio broadcasts of Hitler's speeches, etc. But, what if the HBP was Grindelwald? ;-) GC
PS The HBP being Grindelwald would certainly be a twist that would cause more questions than answers.
PPS I've always thought the HBP was a "Good Guy" but why not make him a "Bad Guy"?
PPS Or the HBP could like Snape a confusing ex-Death Eater (Bad Guy) working for Dumbledore & the Order (Good Guys). I don't have Dumbledore's total trust in Snape. After all Gilderoy must have convinced Dumbledore that he could teach DADA. Even Dumbledore is human. ;-) GC
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Tomoé - May 2, 2005 6:40 am (#396 of 1448)
Back in business
S.E. Jones -> --we had hints about Lupin, Moody and Umbridge, but not a single clue about the next one-- Tomoe
Do you mean before the books were released? I remember JKR saying the Book 5 professor would be a woman, but I don't remember any hints about Lupin or Moody. Can you find the quotes for me?
I found the quote about MEMoody, but couldn't find anything about Lupin, so my momories probably fused together and delude myself. Nevertheless, here's the quote:
Hi, my question is who’s the next Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher? [...]
I’ll tell you, it’s someone ---- he’s quite a scary character for the first time they get someone quite impressive as the Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. I will tell you that for the first time you see a teacher who really takes on Draco Malfoy. [...] OK, so that’s quite cool. There’s also something very distinctive about the new Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher’s appearance. He’s got a magical eye. Now, I’ve given you a really big secret. That’s supposed to be a big surprise. (The Connection, 12 October, 1999)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 2, 2005 6:54 pm (#397 of 1448)
GC I have tended to think of the HBP as a "good guy". You are right though he could be a bad guy. I'm not sure how Gindelwald will fit in. There has to be more of a tie in to WW II. We know Frank Bryce had a bad war. Other than that it isn't mentioned much. LPO
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Veritaserum - May 4, 2005 2:28 pm (#398 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I guess maybe we've all assumed he is a good guy because Voldemort's around, and Voldy's pretty much as bad as it gets. For sure, 'twould be interesting, though. I find that people like Snape, who act bad but are really good, are quite intriguing characters. And also, we take Half-Blood Prince as to mean someone who likes his half-blood-ness or something to that effect.
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Finn BV - May 4, 2005 2:39 pm (#399 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Veritaserum -> And also, we take Half-Blood Prince as to mean someone who likes his half-blood-ness
Not necessarily. If you speculate that the HBP could be Draco (since we aren't sure of Lucius' heritage completely), I don't think Draco would be running around celebrating his being half-blood.
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Finn BV - May 4, 2005 2:44 pm (#400 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Andrew, I thought we had come up with theories that although we know Narcissa's pure, Lucius could be lying. Where in the books or on her website does it say that? I'm ready to believe you, but I think Draco=HBP is the best HBP idea I've heard.
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Finn BV - May 4, 2005 4:54 pm (#401 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Right then… I won't argue against a thesis paper like that, Andrew. *laughs* Just kidding… Thanks for the evidence. I'm not quite sure if Ron's sentence does it for me (for reasons that you said) and her web site isn't quite fool-proof… if Nott is half-blodd, then Draco respects the amount of pure-bloodness in him, which is exactly half.
It's what Sirius said, but, still, I think it could still, possibly, maybe, perhaps, by a slim margin be told true that Draco's half-blood. It fits perfectly… except for your evidence. I'll be sleeping on this, Andrew. Trying to come up with a loophole. Maybe Arthur Weasley can invent us a law like his flying car one for half-bloodness. *wink*
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Finn BV - May 4, 2005 5:31 pm (#402 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Ah, yes. That final point subdues me. Andrew is almighty, Andrew is almighty…
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I Am Used Vlad - May 4, 2005 7:10 pm (#403 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Well, Ron says the Malfoy family is pure blood in CoS, and while Ron may not be the best shake academically, he's really our source of information in the books for the "street smarts" of the wizarding world. Also, in OotP, when discussing the tapestry, Sirius Black, who we know most certainly is a pure-blood, and seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject, notes that Lucius Malfoy is a pure blood... so two wizards with significant knowledge of the wizarding world and its members confirm he's a pure-blood. Further, on her website under the "extras" section where discussing Theodore Nott, J.K. Rowling says Draco Malfoy has to give Theodore Nott respect since Theodore is "just as pure-blooded as he is".
So, because Ron and Sirius both said the Malfoys are pure-bloods, that means JKR would be lying to us if Draco turns out to be the HBP. By that logic the following passage should have been in PS/SS:
Ron reached inside his jacket and pulled out a fat gray rat, which was asleep. The rat was, in fact, not a rat, but a wizard in Animagus form. An Animagus is a witch or wizard who can take the form of an animal at will. This particular wizard is named Peter Pettigrew. He is pretending to be Ron's pet because he betrayed Harry's parents to Voldemort, and the Wizarding World thinks he is dead. PS/SS p. 100 US ( italic text mine)
It would have ruined PoA, but at least JKR would have been being honest. As for the quote on her website, I think one has to take it totally out of context to use it as proof that Draco is pure-blooded. It was about how Draco couldn't look down on Nott, like he does to Harry, Hermione and others, because Nott is a pure-blood. No one is arguing that Draco doesn't think he's a pure-blood, and the chapter the quote was about would have been written from Draco's perspective.
In any case, Lucius Malfoy really can't successfully lie about his lineage. For one thing, we're dealing with a closed population where everyone knows each other and where the Malfoy family is of some repute. There are only two possibilities in this case. Either the Malfoy family has been prominent for some time, or it has recently come into prominence. If it has been prominent for some time, then Lucius Malfoy would have a very hard time pretending to suddenly belong to it since the public would be aware of its members, and "long, lost relatives" would be very hard to justify even if the Malfoy family was complicit in his lie, because they would have to tie Lucius Malfoy to ANOTHER pure-blood family (to establish his mother's pure blood lineage) in order to pull it off. If the Malfoys just came into prominence (and therefore family history wasn't that well known), the claim that the Malfoy family was pure-blood would be highly suspect as it would be very hard to justify an entire family of pure-blood wizards living in Great Britain that no one had ever heard of. Either way, it is extremely unlikely Lucius Malfoy would be able to lie about his heritage and get away with it.
Yes, we're dealing with a closed population. But it also happens to be a closed population where very few people know who quite possibly the most evil wizard ever actually is, or that he is not a pure-blood. As for Lucius lying about his lineage, I doubt he has to. He, like Draco, probably thinks he's a pure-blood. If the Malfoys have been a prominent family for a long time, which seems to be the case, they would have the money and influence to cover up a family scandal.
In any case, we know the Ministry of Magic tracks wizarding lineage and can check it at their convenience (during Harry's trial in OotP, Arabella Figg is told to give her parentage to the Ministry so they can check their records and confirm her geneology), so the Ministry would know right off the bat if Malfoy was lying about his ancestry.
I don't think it would violate the rules that JKR has laid down to have the Ministry of Magic of the past willing to be influenced by money and a prestigious family name.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 4, 2005 8:37 pm (#404 of 1448)
There is also the evidence that Malfoy is pureblood because of Malfoy Manor and the fact he had a House Elf. I see the Malfoys as examples of hereditary nobility. They are part of the "blue bloods" of the Wizarding World. At the very most Draco could be the 1/4 blood Prince. LPO
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The giant squid - May 5, 2005 1:32 am (#405 of 1448)
Well, using that method we can "prove" that Lucius is the giant squid. Still, that's the better way to go--we've been told repeatedly that Lucius & Draco are pureblood, so any theories involving them as half-bloods need to come with a reason why anyone would suspect that they might be half-blooded.
Mind you, I like the idea of Draco's world being flipped upside down and backwards, just because the character as written couldn't handle a shock of that magnitude, but I'll need to see a little more than "What if Draco's really a half-blood? Then he could be the HBP."
--Mike
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frogface - May 5, 2005 2:36 am (#406 of 1448)
Lol! I'm deffinatly not sure about the Draco idea. I mean its a cool idea, but i'm not one for supporting theories that are basicly based on just wanting the idea to be true. There isn't any evidence so far to suggest it could be Draco, and there is evidence to suggest that it isn't him, so why I like your idea, I don't believe it.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 5:14 am (#407 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
frogface - I believe the idea not just because I want it to be true, but instead, that it would hurt all the Malfoys' reputations. Also, it's just like Lucius to get a house-elf, and a mansion so big that nobody question his heritage. I think that because Fudge was such a close friend of Lucius, he told the department that tracks heritage to override whatever they said, as Lucius likely told him some story that something happened and he really "is" pureblood, which is why Sirius and Ron think so. However, the new MoM will find out Malfoy's secret and will reveal Draco as half-blood… or -- ooh! -- LUCIUS as the half-blood prince!
JM2K (against all evidence, but… oh well)
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Catherine - May 5, 2005 5:40 am (#408 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Very well, I shall take a different approach for the moment. Please evidence your point of view that Lucius Malfoy is not a pure blood using examples from the books themselves or from interviews J.K. Rowling has given. --Andrew Buchanan
Mind you, I don't think that Lucius or Draco is the HBP, nor do I think they are half-bloods. But I think I can accept your challenge.
Ron says that the notion of "pure-blood" is ridiculous, that most wizards are half-blood, and that wizards would have died out except for marrying Muggles. (CoS, p116, Scholastic) Suppose JKR is hiding the clue in plain sight? It certainly is "honest" and consistent with the JKR Universe.
On JKR's official site, we see the example of Dean Thomas. Dean believes himself to be a Muggle-born, but he is in fact a half-blood. Could this process work in reverse? Could there be someone in the Malfoy family tree whose lineage was less than pure? It's possible.
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MoonRider - May 5, 2005 6:21 am (#409 of 1448)
OOOOOH-----GOOD ONE, Catherine (A.K.A "Quote Queen")-----EXCELLENT!
.....EXTREEEEEMELY EXCELLENT!
fbv807: "Also, it's just like Lucius to get a house-elf, and a mansion so big that nobody question his heritage."
You know what? You just made me think of something.....
If Sirius' house was MRS. Black's (from her family, or whatever), why couldn't the Malfoy's house be from the Black family-----as Narcissa is a Black?
Also, I'm thinking that someone said that old mansions, and such, come with house-elves-----so Lucius wouldn't have "to get a house-elf"-----if you meant it as two separate things, that is.....
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Grindylow - May 5, 2005 6:54 am (#410 of 1448)
WOW..............I don't know what else to say!
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 7:56 am (#411 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Well, thanks for the proof, Andrew. I still have to say that, although I appreciate the HARD and LONG work you did, some of it is not quite fool-proof. The whole thing about Draco saying "my father says…" and "my father thinks…" doesn't help. Lucius may have told him that any wizards other than pure-bloods should be looked down upon, just because Lucius wants to be a pure-blood and will never reveal his "secret" - that he is half-blood.
When Malfoy is speaking to Mr. Borgin and says "The Malfoy name still commands a certain respect…" that could mean that the time when he did command respect as in his younger years, but not any generations beforehand.
Mr. Borgin may refer to Malfoy's mansion as Malfoy's, but, seriously, would you call it Narcissa's? Malfoy has likely been so affectionate with Narcissa that he just made the mansion under his name.
I'll come back to working on this after school. *must argue for Malfoy being HBP* :~|>
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 8:22 am (#412 of 1448)
Well, it's finally happened. It took almost 6 books and finally succumbing to posting on the Lexicon, but it's finally happened ...
I've started dreaming about Harry Potter.
I actually dreamed last night that Voldemort had a son. His son was the half blood prince. I need to check myself into one of those muggle nutter medical facilities, I think.
Anyway, I understand that some people feel strongly that the Malfoys simply cannot be half blooded, because they've argued so strongly on the basis that anyone with anything less than a pure blooded background is less of a person, as Voldemort does, but there's also strong argument to the fact that what we see isn't always what is, in this world. The irony of someone like Draco Malfoy being on idle footing with someone like Harry Potter would be something I can see JKR doing. I personally don't think that simply on the basis of Malfoy claiming he's pure blood or living in an estate deemed higher class would justify his pure blood status. It simply gives us more of a red herring regarding them and if the irony comes to play it'll show how we judge people based on superficial things.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 9:08 am (#413 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Ok, so I won't give you credit for all this work. *grins*
Malfoy says "Not with me…" he could be lying overall. Perhaps, for a similar reason Harry's grandparents are dead (see 4PD thread) Draco's are too. that is, they could have all been involved in this Grindelwald deal (although I'm not quite ready to believe that, it's all conjectural).
What you were saying about Voldemort -- can you imagine the Darkest wizard of the world is half-blood, and Malfoy is pure-blood and thus "better" than him?
Just to conclude for now, there are only a few people who could be the HBP that "would be worth reading about. But the others?
Hagrid - NO! WE DON'T CARE! I know we've been saying that since he's a half-breed he's not half-bood, but if JKR makes this the case, I'll throw the book out
Seamus - um… what do we know about him? "Another snoozer…"
new character - no time to develop them.
The end… for now…
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Eponine - May 5, 2005 9:22 am (#414 of 1448)
One theory for the Half Blood Prince which I don't believe I've seen mentioned here is Bowman Wright, the inventor of the Golden Snitch. Bowman Wright was on one of the original Chocolate Frog cards that JKR has recently informed us that she wrote the information for.
These are some of the thoughts behind why he might be more significant in the books.
1. His Chocolate Frog card is the only one that specifically mentions blood line. (His mother was a witch, and his father was a muggle.) 2. According to QTTA, he lived in Godric's Hollow which is the same town where Harry lived with James and Lily. 3. JKR has also implied that Godric's Hollow has a connection with Godric Gryffindor
Q: And I'm going to ask one other question which you'll say isn't clever at all. The significance of the place where Harry and his parents lived, the first name - A: Godric Gryffindor. Very good, you're a bit good you are, aren't you?
I don't really subscribe to this theory, but it is interesting. It wouldn't be the first time JKR has planted information elsewhere (thestrals first appeared in FBAWTFT) that became important later in the books.
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Choices - May 5, 2005 10:16 am (#415 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Andrew - I enjoyed reading your thoughts on Lucius Malfoy and I applaud you for basing your ideas on canon. Seems I read far too many ideas based on what people wish would be and not on what we can suppose based on hard facts. Your ideas were good, very well thought out and you backed it up with canon. I salute you!
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MoonRider - May 5, 2005 11:36 am (#416 of 1448)
Well, I don't know if I'm reading the last several posts wrongly, or not-----but, what I don't understand is.....
I got the feeling that whomever posted that they thought Draco was the HBP, had read something that got their "juices" flowing-----and posted to see what others thought of the idea-----isn't that what "theories" are all about?
A couple of people seem to keep wanting to say that "canon doesn't support it"-----but, did canon (PS) tell us that there was going to be this gigundo snake in a secret chamber in the next book?
.....or, that Cedric was going to die, in the next book?
.....and, so-on, and so-on?
Yeah, now when we know what has happened we can look back and say: "OMG, there was the clue....."-----but, at-the-time, how many of us saw "whatever", really, coming?
I don't know that I believe that Draco is the HBP-----but, I tell ya what-----this conversation has really got me thinking-----if, for no other reason, than because of people wanting to say "canon doesn't support it". To me, that's the PERFECT reason why Draco could be the HBP-----because, as someone else said, that is something at which JKR is so good-----coming-up-with something not-so-obvious------sometimes, almost obscure-----the "red herring", or whatever.
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Steve Newton - May 5, 2005 12:05 pm (#417 of 1448)
Librarian
MoonRider, as you say "when we know what has happened we can look back and say: "OMG, there was the clue." That is the kind of documentation and clues that most would like to see when attached to speculation. The clues are there. Our job: find them! (The word 'theory' is vastly overused.)
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S.E. Jones - May 5, 2005 12:07 pm (#418 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--A couple of people seem to keep wanting to say that "canon doesn't support it"-----but, did canon (PS) tell us that there was going to be this gigundo snake in a secret chamber in the next book?-- MoonRider
The thing is, the canon didn't say there was going to be a snake in the Chamber, but it didn't say there wasn't going to be a snake either. It didn't say one way or another. Canon didn't say that Ron's rat was an animagus, but it didn't really say that Ron's rat wasn't an animagus. Theories should be based in canon as JKR sets up her plots with clues and hints; what good is all her hard work if they don't amount to anything... If theories aren't based in canon, then they are fanfiction. As for other people tearing down or building up theories, that's what this Forum is for, to share ideas and to debate them in a safe atmosphere, which I think fbv807 and Andrew have given us a perfect example of.
As for my opinion on Draco being a half-blood, well JKR has said, via multiple characters, that the Malfoys are pureblooded. How do we know anything in these books? By JKR coming out and telling us. How do we know that time-turners are strictly monitored? By JKR using a character in the know to tell us. How do we know who is or isn't a pureblood? By the same means. We are told Draco is a pureblood so I vote that she's telling us the truth. However, she hasn't told us one way or the other about, say, Dumbledore or James Potter, so they're fair game for speculation in my book....
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MoonRider - May 5, 2005 12:17 pm (#419 of 1448)
Edited May 5, 2005 12:56 pm
Steve: "That is the kind of documentation and clues that most would like to see when attached to speculation. The clues are there."
Okay-----you're right-----I, sort of, contradicted my ownself! What I was trying to say, was.....
have you ever heard the saying: "One man's junk is another man's treasure" (or, something like that)? Well, the same principle applies here, I feel, in that whomever posted that they thought Draco could be the HBP read "something" that could later prove to be a "clue", for all we know.....
someone else might come-along and read the exact same passage and say it was "junk"-----meaning, that it wasn't a clue because there's no other canon reference to support it.....
but, the thing is-----nobody knows what isn't a clue, until the book comes-out.
I don't know if I said that any better.....
ADDED:
S.E. Jones: You posted as I was typing my response to Steve.....
I'm not really sure what you're trying to tell me with the first half of your post.....
Firstly, I've never thought JKR was "lying" about anything-----Good Heavens! I do think, however, that she could/has thrown us "curves" every now-and-then.....
Secondly, I understand what you're saying about that there have been several characters tell us that Lucius/Draco are "purebloods"-----but then, Dean Thomas (I think it was) "told" us he is a "Mudblood"-----JKR told us on her site that he's a "Half-blood".....
so, why couldn't there be a "margin" that allows for Draco to not know who/what he truly is?
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S.E. Jones - May 5, 2005 1:17 pm (#420 of 1448)
Let it snow!
---but then, Dean Thomas (I think it was) "told" us he is a "Mudblood"-----JKR told us on her site that he's a "Half-blood"-- Moonrider
We were also told about many other plot points that will never make it into the books, such as the Weasley cousin and Hermione's sister. I think that Dean being a half-blood, unless she finds a way to work it in with the last two books, is one of those side plots that are going to be left behind and thus are irrelevant. What has been stated in canon, however, should be viewed and reviewed. What I was trying to state in my first paragraph is that if we are told something, either multiple times or told by certain characters, then a theory shouldn't contradict it (as Draco being a half-blood would), but instead a theory should be based on clues, hints, or a lack of information that she has repeatedly stepped around (such as Dumbledore and James Potter's "blood status"). We can theorize that Dumbledore might be half-blood based on his like of muggle candy or his want to allow everyone, half-blood and muggle-blood alike, into the school. Or, we might theorize that James was a pureblood because he had money and had a cockey attitude similar to Draco, and even Ron at times. We can theorize these things because we haven't been outright told anything one way or another. We can't theorize that Arthur is a half-blood because she has outright told us something to the contrary. That is why it is so important to look for clues that might be leading to something we haven't discovered yet, but still be mindful of what we should know to be fact.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 1:41 pm (#421 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Edited by Catherine May 5, 2005 1:53 pm
Thank you, everybody, for supporting the minority. Of course, I want to most particularly thank Andrew for attempting to contradict the theory, because if we contradicted all theories but one, then we would know the correct one.
Eponine - you said it is possible that Bowman Wright could be the HBP. I am going to turn it down. Unless Bowman suddenly gets a character status boost to more important than Harry, I don't think he'd be getting the title character rank. In post 426, I express who we don't want to be the HBP. Only major characters can be it. The only chance for somebody with a character status like Seamus, for example, is if they suddenly start appearing as frequently as Harry does. As Ron does. As Hermione does. As Dumbledore does. To me, HRH and DD are the four most important characters in the book.
You can't make somebody like Bowman Wright the HBP. Half of the readers (including myself, until you described him) don't even know who he is (was) or what he did. We have to be acquainted with the person. The character's status of HBP will be found out before the middle of the book if they're fairly important, but near the end of the book, as a revelation, if they're somebody with a lower character status and gets boosted up to be higher, more important, and suddenly given a chance to speak on every page.
----->I edited this post to maintain the respectful tone that the Forum members have all agreed to use.<------------Catherine A.
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hells456 - May 5, 2005 2:22 pm (#422 of 1448)
"You can't make somebody like Bowman Wright the HBP. Half of the readers (including myself, until you described him) don't even know who he is (was) or what he did. We have to be acquainted with the person." fbv807
Has JKR actually said that the HBP is a character we already know? I guess that puts an end to the 'new DADA teacher is the HBP' speculation.
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Eponine - May 5, 2005 2:33 pm (#423 of 1448)
Just because the HBP is the title character doesn't mean he's going to be a major character. Looking at the past titles, it's not necessary for the object of the title to be present in the entire book. Certainly each object/person has had an effect on the storyline of each book, but it does not mean the object/person is going to be the main attraction simply by virtue of being the title.
The only other book that had a person as the title was PoA, and we didn't even see him until the very end of the book. Besides that, he wasn't someone that we knew until that book. Yes, he had a one line mention in PS/SS, but no one knew who he was until PoA came out.
And it's the same with the other titles, we had no indication in PS/SS that there was a secret chamber hidden under the school. There were no clues that the Sirius Black who had a one line mention in PS/SS was really an Azkaban Prisoner. Nowhere in the books was anything written that would have helped us determine there would be a Triwizard Tournament which would involve a Goblet of Fire. The one exception would be OotP, because at the end of GoF, DD mentions getting the old crowd together. That is the only hint we have of a group of select wizards that fought Voldemort last time. Nothing in the previous titles indicate that we must have prior knowledge of the HBP.
So, the HBP does not have to be a major character. It does not have to be anyone we know. It does not have to be someone who is even alive.
The point is that the HBP could be almost anyone. We know that it is not Harry or Voldemort (and by extension Tom Riddle). There were several unsubstantiated reports from the Edinburgh Book Festival that JKR told a couple fans that Hagrid was not the HBP when she signed their books. Other than those, it's up for grabs. There's nothing to suggest that it cannot be a completely new character.
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Veritaserum - May 5, 2005 2:33 pm (#424 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, so, Andrew, here's a loophole for you. What if Draco actually isn't either Lucius or Narcissa's son? I know he looks like Lucius, so it would have to be Lucius who hypothetically fathered Draco out of wedlock with a Muggle or half-blood. Then (okay, I'm not sure why this would happen, but I'm sure there could be some reason), Narcissa agrees to raise him as her and Lucius's son. Therefore he thinks he's pureblood, he's raised pureblood, his family's lineage is intact, but unbeknownst to him, he actually is a half blood.
This is just an idea that came to me. I personally don't think Draco is the HBP, but it would be rather interesting if he was.
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 2:46 pm (#425 of 1448)
My goodness, you're all really passionate regarding your theories and ideas and gut feelings regarding your opinions. I suppose that's nice to see, but someone said that this forum is about giving all the ability to express their opinions about how they interpret JKRs words and if there's something you feel strongly about, ok, but there should be room to allow for others to feel as strongly too without it sparking a wizarding war, hopefully.
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Catherine - May 5, 2005 2:52 pm (#426 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Very Sirius,
You raise a good point. Sometimes even the best wizards allow their emotions to get the better of them. That's why the "Kippendo" spell was invented!
More to the point, though, if a Forum member has a concern, please feel free to email a host. There is a master list at the top of the Forum page, and it will show our email addresses. We all aim to maintain a respectful, fun place to indulge our obssessions.
Back on topic...I will admit that I no longer have any real idea about who the HBP is, and I think that is probably just what JKR intends.
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hells456 - May 5, 2005 2:58 pm (#427 of 1448)
It might work slightly better if Lucius was the one of dodgy parentage. That way Draco could be none the wiser, and come to think of it, Lucius doesn't have to know either. Someone posted earlier that they dreamt Voldemort had a son, it would be a neat twist if Lucius was his unknown illegitimate child. That is another way to ensure that his genes continued, if not Voldemort himself. I know this is highly unlikely and there is zero canon evidence. However we do have one character that lies about his blood status - Voldemort - at least Bellatrix didn't know. Why not another?
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 3:28 pm (#428 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Eponine - that is a very good point in response, that the HBP doesn't have to be a major character just because it's the title of the book. Sorry for any opposing thoughts I came up with (Catherine rightly edited my post when the words could have been taken a different way); let me change my wording that it would be disappointing if anybody like Bowman Wright was the HBP. JKR works up all that emotion about "It's the HBP! Ooh… I wonder who it could be" and then it's the inventor of the Golden Snitch who she hasn't quite gone into great depth character-wise. *wink* I hope you agree with me that it wouldn't quite work up to be her exciting work yet.
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 4:00 pm (#429 of 1448)
Hells, I think I was more concerned that I was dreaming about this than I was about the content of the dream. lol
It is interesting though that Malfoy would have some of Voldemorts old things, when there were other death eaters whom Voldemort might either trust more or regard higher. How do you suppose Malfoy ended up with these things? I have some theories, but i'm a bit apprehensive to post them.
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Eponine - May 5, 2005 4:19 pm (#430 of 1448)
fb87, I don't necessarily think it's Bowman Wright, but I don't necessarily think it's not Bowman Wright. That was just a theory I'd seen proposed on other sites, and since I hadn't seen it here, I thought I'd bring it up.
I really don't have any idea of who it is. I have a feeling that it's a historical character, and if it is then it would be an entirely new character or someone we've heard briefly mentioned. If it's not, and it turns out to be Seamus Finnegan, Lucious Malfoy, Grawp, or Tom the barman at The Leaky Cauldron then I'm not going to be disappointed in the slightest since I'm not really invested in any theory about the identity of the HBP.
I'm of the opinion that it's best not to be too invested in any theory, that way you're less likely to be disappointed. I just don't want to see somewhat plausible theories dismissed so casually.
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Amilia Smith - May 5, 2005 4:28 pm (#431 of 1448)
Very Sirius: Share your theories. People like me, who don't have the imagination to come up with our own theories, like reading what others have thought of, and the debate their ideas spark.
As to Lucius being Voldemort's son, as intriguing as that idea sounds, it has been quashed in the World Day chat.
Harry: Has Voldemort any children?
JK Rowling replies -> No. Voldemort as a father... now that's not a nice thought.
Mills.
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ellebell86 - May 5, 2005 4:47 pm (#432 of 1448)
Ron speculated that Lucius Malfoy was right in Voldermort's inner circle after the dark mark was sent up. Malfoy is also close enough that he was at the Ministry of magic in the Department of Mysteries to get the prophecy. He is also the one who tells the other Death Eaters not to attack Harry because he has the prophecy which suggests that Lucius was in direct contact with Voldermort.
Also if Lucius knows that Tom Riddle is really Lord Voldermort then it would be reasonable to question whether he knew that Voldermort is a Half-blood. If (key word IF, I dont really buy into all this myself) Lucius were a half-blood then he might use his knowledge of Voldermort's lineage to get into his inner circle. But I can already poke holes in this because why would Voldermort bother being blackmailed and not just kill Lucius himself. Any ideas?
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Mrs Brisbee - May 5, 2005 5:07 pm (#433 of 1448)
Don't most of the Death Eaters (with the possible exception of the Azkzban crew) know that Tom Riddle, Sr., was Voldemort's father, because they all Apparated to the graveyard after his rebirthing?
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Ladybug220 - May 5, 2005 5:37 pm (#434 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Mrs Brisbee, the Dork Lard gave that little speech to Harry before the DEs apparated to the graveyard. I assume that most of them do not know the significance of that particular graveyard. Also, they have probably learned the hard way not to question him too much.
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 5:43 pm (#435 of 1448)
Awwww Amilia, i'm sure you've got some interesting theories.
I didn't mean to imply that Malfoy was Voldemorts son. I thought my dream about Voldemort having a son was a hoot. I do think it curious that Malfoy was able to get his hands on items, especially items he and or Dobby knew would destroy Harry and others. And this before Voldemort had his body back. Thanks for your input on that, elle.
Mrs. Brisbee, I think, from what I can recall, that when Voldemort touches the mark on his arm, all the death eaters are supposed to apparate to where he is at the time. I would assume that if they didn't know before, they knew after his little speech in the cemetery about his father. This doesn't mean that they knew his father was a muggle though. How they don't know, I don't know, but that's my understanding.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 6:15 pm (#436 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Glad we're on the same page, Eponine.
Now I have to get anybody out of my head as being the HBP for fear of them not being so in the real book! ;-) Hmm… now Tom the barman is by far the best idea I've heard yet! *laughs*
No wait… the Shrunken Head in the Knight Bus!
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Choices - May 5, 2005 7:27 pm (#437 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I haven't a clue who the HBP is, but I would be willing to bet that since this character is being introduced (or revealed) in the next to last book of the series, he is going to be very important and have a great impact on what happens at the end. There, I've stated the obvious. LOL
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 5, 2005 8:17 pm (#438 of 1448)
I don't think the HBP necessarily has to be someone we know. My guess is the name has been mentioned somewhere. Personally I'm rooting for Dedalus Diggle(no evidence I just like the name)! Each book JKR introduces new characters and new magic. Each book stands on its own for story line and plot. LPO
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The giant squid - May 6, 2005 4:52 am (#439 of 1448)
I will admit that I no longer have any real idea about who the HBP is, and I think that is probably just what JKR intends.--Catherine
I'm feeling the same way. I had a few ideas right off the bat just like everyone else, but the more we go on, the less likely each of them seems. I've decided to sit back and see what JKR comes up with. Judging from her five previous attempts, I doubt she'll disappoint me.
--Mike
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Chemyst - May 6, 2005 5:39 am (#440 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I had a few ideas right off the bat just like everyone else, but the more we go on, the less likely each of them seems. - Mike
My right-off-the bat idea was a portrait, and while I've mellowed a bit on that, I haven't abandoned it completely. A few more reasons for leaning heavily towards the speculations that HBP is not someone we know or who has had more than a passing mention:
The character of Nicholas Flamel was responsible for a pivotal plot point, yet we never saw him, and the only confirmation of his death, even though DD had predicted it, came on the JKR website. If Hermione ever read his obituary in the Daily Prophet, she never mentioned it. Flamel showed it is possible to have an entirely "off screen" role.
The ad campaign itself– while this is shaky and could be argued both ways, I see the ads with "Who is the Half-blood Prince?" more as an enticement to learn something new than an invitation to pick from the previously introduced cast.
But mostly there is the "Oh Look! " factor. If the HBP were to be someone we knew, then they have either known all along and have been hiding it, or they will just find out "Oh My Gosh! I'm a prince!" In either case, we'd need a really good justification. What special powers or privileges would a HBP have? Why would someone hide them, or would it take practice or knowledge to use them?
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Ponine - May 6, 2005 5:51 am (#441 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I still want to know; Just because JKR said the HBP is not Voldemort, must that necessarily exclude Tom Riddle??
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KWeldon - May 6, 2005 5:53 am (#442 of 1448)
Yes, JKR has verified in an interview that Voldemort and Tom Riddle are considered one and the same, and they are not the HBP.
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Betelgeuse Black - May 6, 2005 6:37 am (#443 of 1448)
My goodness, there's been a lot of activity here.
I wanted to say that I don't think that the HBP needs to be someone we know. Nobody had heard of Moody at the beginning of GoF and Umbridge was an unknown at the beginning of OotP. The same can be said for Lupin at the start of PoA. JKR can develop characters well in a short time.
I also agree that the HBP does not have to be a well developed character. In fact, the HBP could be (as has been suggested by others) a historical figure that represents an idea or theme of the book. The Goblet of Fire was a representation of the Triwizard Tournament. The HBP could represent the struggle of non-pure blood wizards for equality against prejudice. Maybe, the cover of the US edition is Dumbledore showing Harry the HBP in the pensieve so he can understand the struggle.
The bottom line is that I don't know and only JKR, her publishers, and Mary Granpre know who the HBP is...... But it sure is fun to speculate while we have no book to amuse ourselves with.
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Joanne R. Reid - May 6, 2005 9:56 am (#444 of 1448)
Hi,
Wow! I turn my back for a day or so, and suddenly a whole bunch of really great stuff appears. I'm like a kid surrounded by a vast sea of presents!
My only thought on the subject of the HBP is that it can't be any of the Malfoys. JKR has spoken on this subject, either directly in interviews or indirectly though her novels. To this time, all the direct and indirect evidence, i.e. canon, is that the Malfoys are pure-bloods.
So, I continue to look elsewhere to find the HBP. I find my choices are restricted. It isn't Harry, DD or LV/TMR. That leaves Dean Thomas and Seamus Finnegan as the only half-bloods with whom we have had any major contact. Seamus is very aware of his parentage, while, at least to this point, Dean is not. IMHO, I think it'd be cool if Dean did turn out to be someone rather special in the WW.
The good part is I will find out on July 16. The bad part is that July 16 is such a long time from now!
Accio! Half-blood prince!
Thanks,
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Tomoé - May 6, 2005 10:23 am (#445 of 1448)
Back in business
Oh my, so many posts in two days!
I just want to had that I believe there's no way for Lucius Malfoy can have a less that all pure-blood genealogical tree. Mrs Black, who own a book named Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Genealogy, have toujours pure as family motto and encouraged her son to become a DE, wouldn't have allow one of her daughter to wed a less than "all pure-blood as far as registers go" wizard. She wouldn't have allowed her negligence to spoil the family blood, so I believe she did a full research and traced every ancestor of Lucius to make sure he was pure.
The only way around is if one of Lucius or Drago's female ancestor had an affair.
----- Out Topic -----
Suspero -> I just had to get on here and tell "Tomoe" how much I love the winking neo-Classical picture. Where can I get one? Certainly seems in the spirit of things!
I'm so very sorry, I forgot to answer you back a month ago and only cross you post again as I was looking for something else. If you read my profile since that post, you know my avatar is home-made, so I know no place to find others like mine. But, since I made you wait that long, I'll made you one. Just send me a mail.
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Choices - May 6, 2005 10:25 am (#446 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have read many theories as to who the HBP is and I think the best I have seen so far points to Godric Gryffindor. Perhaps the most amusing candidate though, is Argus Filch - his Quikspell envelope was purple and in one scene his face turns purple with rage - purple is the color of royalty. His cat (Squibs have familiars who can detect dark magic that the Squib can't see) was the first to be attacked by the basilisk - thus clearning the way to get rid of Filch, the heir to the throne. He is the only character we know who spends his time year round at Hogwarts - obviously hiding out from anti-royalists, he is tyranical and likes to torture annoying students, and there is a mythic tradition of kings in exile taking on menial jobs. Definitely an interesting (and amusing) theory based on canon. However, as intriguing as the argument for Filch is, I'll have to vote for Godric Gryffindor as the HBP.
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Veritaserum - May 6, 2005 2:07 pm (#447 of 1448)
Go Jays!
How about a once-or-twice-mentioned-but-otherwise unkown order member? Sturgis Podmore or Caradoc Dearborn (is that the one they never found the body of?). Kingsley Shacklebolt would be cool. (I totally saw Samuel L. Jackson from Star Wars as that character the second I read his description.)
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hells456 - May 6, 2005 2:13 pm (#448 of 1448)
I think the HBP will be Dean Thomas. The stage has already been set for him to take a larger role, as he may be going out with Ginny in the next book. If he does go out with Ginny, he will have more prominence early on in the book and it won't seem too forced. We also have a large number of references to him being good at drawing, a skill which I think he will develop in order to be able to paint magical portraits (another way to see Sirius again?). We have known him since the beginning because he shares Harry's dormitory. He is the only character that I can feasibly imagine finding out something this major with no warning. Does anyone know when he turns 17?
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Suspero - May 6, 2005 2:23 pm (#449 of 1448)
Professor
Tomoe -- Thanks! And thank you for all the info on how you created it.
About the HBP -- I'm still in favor of Gryffindor as a candidate, mainly because JKR said that "the HBP" was the original title for CoS.
I have a couple of reasons for not believing it's Malfoy -- it was okay with JKR to edit the Knockturn Alley trading scene out of the theatrical print of "CoS" the movie and I've heard it said that she nevers agrees to excising crucial details (which is why my wife insists, nearly shouting, that Percy Weasley being in the Slytherin hallway is a crucial piece of a later puzzle!). Justin Finch-Fletchley ranks high on my list of suspects, too.
But I still think that whatever and whoever is revealed in HBP has to sort well with CoS.
(and thanks again, Tomoe, LOL)
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Regan of Gong - May 6, 2005 6:09 pm (#450 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
I'm sceptical about Dean being the HBP because, if I am correct, JKR originally had him down for the role that Neville plays now, as the other boy the prophecy could refer to. Neville is a more interesting character and I think Dean's been swept off to one side, so I'm believing Neville is the HBP
Reegz
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Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Right then… I won't argue against a thesis paper like that, Andrew. *laughs* Just kidding… Thanks for the evidence. I'm not quite sure if Ron's sentence does it for me (for reasons that you said) and her web site isn't quite fool-proof… if Nott is half-blodd, then Draco respects the amount of pure-bloodness in him, which is exactly half.
It's what Sirius said, but, still, I think it could still, possibly, maybe, perhaps, by a slim margin be told true that Draco's half-blood. It fits perfectly… except for your evidence. I'll be sleeping on this, Andrew. Trying to come up with a loophole. Maybe Arthur Weasley can invent us a law like his flying car one for half-bloodness. *wink*
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Finn BV - May 4, 2005 5:31 pm (#402 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Ah, yes. That final point subdues me. Andrew is almighty, Andrew is almighty…
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I Am Used Vlad - May 4, 2005 7:10 pm (#403 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Well, Ron says the Malfoy family is pure blood in CoS, and while Ron may not be the best shake academically, he's really our source of information in the books for the "street smarts" of the wizarding world. Also, in OotP, when discussing the tapestry, Sirius Black, who we know most certainly is a pure-blood, and seems to be very knowledgeable on the subject, notes that Lucius Malfoy is a pure blood... so two wizards with significant knowledge of the wizarding world and its members confirm he's a pure-blood. Further, on her website under the "extras" section where discussing Theodore Nott, J.K. Rowling says Draco Malfoy has to give Theodore Nott respect since Theodore is "just as pure-blooded as he is".
So, because Ron and Sirius both said the Malfoys are pure-bloods, that means JKR would be lying to us if Draco turns out to be the HBP. By that logic the following passage should have been in PS/SS:
Ron reached inside his jacket and pulled out a fat gray rat, which was asleep. The rat was, in fact, not a rat, but a wizard in Animagus form. An Animagus is a witch or wizard who can take the form of an animal at will. This particular wizard is named Peter Pettigrew. He is pretending to be Ron's pet because he betrayed Harry's parents to Voldemort, and the Wizarding World thinks he is dead. PS/SS p. 100 US ( italic text mine)
It would have ruined PoA, but at least JKR would have been being honest. As for the quote on her website, I think one has to take it totally out of context to use it as proof that Draco is pure-blooded. It was about how Draco couldn't look down on Nott, like he does to Harry, Hermione and others, because Nott is a pure-blood. No one is arguing that Draco doesn't think he's a pure-blood, and the chapter the quote was about would have been written from Draco's perspective.
In any case, Lucius Malfoy really can't successfully lie about his lineage. For one thing, we're dealing with a closed population where everyone knows each other and where the Malfoy family is of some repute. There are only two possibilities in this case. Either the Malfoy family has been prominent for some time, or it has recently come into prominence. If it has been prominent for some time, then Lucius Malfoy would have a very hard time pretending to suddenly belong to it since the public would be aware of its members, and "long, lost relatives" would be very hard to justify even if the Malfoy family was complicit in his lie, because they would have to tie Lucius Malfoy to ANOTHER pure-blood family (to establish his mother's pure blood lineage) in order to pull it off. If the Malfoys just came into prominence (and therefore family history wasn't that well known), the claim that the Malfoy family was pure-blood would be highly suspect as it would be very hard to justify an entire family of pure-blood wizards living in Great Britain that no one had ever heard of. Either way, it is extremely unlikely Lucius Malfoy would be able to lie about his heritage and get away with it.
Yes, we're dealing with a closed population. But it also happens to be a closed population where very few people know who quite possibly the most evil wizard ever actually is, or that he is not a pure-blood. As for Lucius lying about his lineage, I doubt he has to. He, like Draco, probably thinks he's a pure-blood. If the Malfoys have been a prominent family for a long time, which seems to be the case, they would have the money and influence to cover up a family scandal.
In any case, we know the Ministry of Magic tracks wizarding lineage and can check it at their convenience (during Harry's trial in OotP, Arabella Figg is told to give her parentage to the Ministry so they can check their records and confirm her geneology), so the Ministry would know right off the bat if Malfoy was lying about his ancestry.
I don't think it would violate the rules that JKR has laid down to have the Ministry of Magic of the past willing to be influenced by money and a prestigious family name.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 4, 2005 8:37 pm (#404 of 1448)
There is also the evidence that Malfoy is pureblood because of Malfoy Manor and the fact he had a House Elf. I see the Malfoys as examples of hereditary nobility. They are part of the "blue bloods" of the Wizarding World. At the very most Draco could be the 1/4 blood Prince. LPO
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The giant squid - May 5, 2005 1:32 am (#405 of 1448)
Well, using that method we can "prove" that Lucius is the giant squid. Still, that's the better way to go--we've been told repeatedly that Lucius & Draco are pureblood, so any theories involving them as half-bloods need to come with a reason why anyone would suspect that they might be half-blooded.
Mind you, I like the idea of Draco's world being flipped upside down and backwards, just because the character as written couldn't handle a shock of that magnitude, but I'll need to see a little more than "What if Draco's really a half-blood? Then he could be the HBP."
--Mike
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frogface - May 5, 2005 2:36 am (#406 of 1448)
Lol! I'm deffinatly not sure about the Draco idea. I mean its a cool idea, but i'm not one for supporting theories that are basicly based on just wanting the idea to be true. There isn't any evidence so far to suggest it could be Draco, and there is evidence to suggest that it isn't him, so why I like your idea, I don't believe it.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 5:14 am (#407 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
frogface - I believe the idea not just because I want it to be true, but instead, that it would hurt all the Malfoys' reputations. Also, it's just like Lucius to get a house-elf, and a mansion so big that nobody question his heritage. I think that because Fudge was such a close friend of Lucius, he told the department that tracks heritage to override whatever they said, as Lucius likely told him some story that something happened and he really "is" pureblood, which is why Sirius and Ron think so. However, the new MoM will find out Malfoy's secret and will reveal Draco as half-blood… or -- ooh! -- LUCIUS as the half-blood prince!
JM2K (against all evidence, but… oh well)
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Catherine - May 5, 2005 5:40 am (#408 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Very well, I shall take a different approach for the moment. Please evidence your point of view that Lucius Malfoy is not a pure blood using examples from the books themselves or from interviews J.K. Rowling has given. --Andrew Buchanan
Mind you, I don't think that Lucius or Draco is the HBP, nor do I think they are half-bloods. But I think I can accept your challenge.
Ron says that the notion of "pure-blood" is ridiculous, that most wizards are half-blood, and that wizards would have died out except for marrying Muggles. (CoS, p116, Scholastic) Suppose JKR is hiding the clue in plain sight? It certainly is "honest" and consistent with the JKR Universe.
On JKR's official site, we see the example of Dean Thomas. Dean believes himself to be a Muggle-born, but he is in fact a half-blood. Could this process work in reverse? Could there be someone in the Malfoy family tree whose lineage was less than pure? It's possible.
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MoonRider - May 5, 2005 6:21 am (#409 of 1448)
OOOOOH-----GOOD ONE, Catherine (A.K.A "Quote Queen")-----EXCELLENT!
.....EXTREEEEEMELY EXCELLENT!
fbv807: "Also, it's just like Lucius to get a house-elf, and a mansion so big that nobody question his heritage."
You know what? You just made me think of something.....
If Sirius' house was MRS. Black's (from her family, or whatever), why couldn't the Malfoy's house be from the Black family-----as Narcissa is a Black?
Also, I'm thinking that someone said that old mansions, and such, come with house-elves-----so Lucius wouldn't have "to get a house-elf"-----if you meant it as two separate things, that is.....
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Grindylow - May 5, 2005 6:54 am (#410 of 1448)
WOW..............I don't know what else to say!
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 7:56 am (#411 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Well, thanks for the proof, Andrew. I still have to say that, although I appreciate the HARD and LONG work you did, some of it is not quite fool-proof. The whole thing about Draco saying "my father says…" and "my father thinks…" doesn't help. Lucius may have told him that any wizards other than pure-bloods should be looked down upon, just because Lucius wants to be a pure-blood and will never reveal his "secret" - that he is half-blood.
When Malfoy is speaking to Mr. Borgin and says "The Malfoy name still commands a certain respect…" that could mean that the time when he did command respect as in his younger years, but not any generations beforehand.
Mr. Borgin may refer to Malfoy's mansion as Malfoy's, but, seriously, would you call it Narcissa's? Malfoy has likely been so affectionate with Narcissa that he just made the mansion under his name.
I'll come back to working on this after school. *must argue for Malfoy being HBP* :~|>
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 8:22 am (#412 of 1448)
Well, it's finally happened. It took almost 6 books and finally succumbing to posting on the Lexicon, but it's finally happened ...
I've started dreaming about Harry Potter.
I actually dreamed last night that Voldemort had a son. His son was the half blood prince. I need to check myself into one of those muggle nutter medical facilities, I think.
Anyway, I understand that some people feel strongly that the Malfoys simply cannot be half blooded, because they've argued so strongly on the basis that anyone with anything less than a pure blooded background is less of a person, as Voldemort does, but there's also strong argument to the fact that what we see isn't always what is, in this world. The irony of someone like Draco Malfoy being on idle footing with someone like Harry Potter would be something I can see JKR doing. I personally don't think that simply on the basis of Malfoy claiming he's pure blood or living in an estate deemed higher class would justify his pure blood status. It simply gives us more of a red herring regarding them and if the irony comes to play it'll show how we judge people based on superficial things.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 9:08 am (#413 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Ok, so I won't give you credit for all this work. *grins*
Malfoy says "Not with me…" he could be lying overall. Perhaps, for a similar reason Harry's grandparents are dead (see 4PD thread) Draco's are too. that is, they could have all been involved in this Grindelwald deal (although I'm not quite ready to believe that, it's all conjectural).
What you were saying about Voldemort -- can you imagine the Darkest wizard of the world is half-blood, and Malfoy is pure-blood and thus "better" than him?
Just to conclude for now, there are only a few people who could be the HBP that "would be worth reading about. But the others?
Hagrid - NO! WE DON'T CARE! I know we've been saying that since he's a half-breed he's not half-bood, but if JKR makes this the case, I'll throw the book out
Seamus - um… what do we know about him? "Another snoozer…"
new character - no time to develop them.
The end… for now…
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Eponine - May 5, 2005 9:22 am (#414 of 1448)
One theory for the Half Blood Prince which I don't believe I've seen mentioned here is Bowman Wright, the inventor of the Golden Snitch. Bowman Wright was on one of the original Chocolate Frog cards that JKR has recently informed us that she wrote the information for.
These are some of the thoughts behind why he might be more significant in the books.
1. His Chocolate Frog card is the only one that specifically mentions blood line. (His mother was a witch, and his father was a muggle.) 2. According to QTTA, he lived in Godric's Hollow which is the same town where Harry lived with James and Lily. 3. JKR has also implied that Godric's Hollow has a connection with Godric Gryffindor
Q: And I'm going to ask one other question which you'll say isn't clever at all. The significance of the place where Harry and his parents lived, the first name - A: Godric Gryffindor. Very good, you're a bit good you are, aren't you?
I don't really subscribe to this theory, but it is interesting. It wouldn't be the first time JKR has planted information elsewhere (thestrals first appeared in FBAWTFT) that became important later in the books.
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Choices - May 5, 2005 10:16 am (#415 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Andrew - I enjoyed reading your thoughts on Lucius Malfoy and I applaud you for basing your ideas on canon. Seems I read far too many ideas based on what people wish would be and not on what we can suppose based on hard facts. Your ideas were good, very well thought out and you backed it up with canon. I salute you!
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MoonRider - May 5, 2005 11:36 am (#416 of 1448)
Well, I don't know if I'm reading the last several posts wrongly, or not-----but, what I don't understand is.....
I got the feeling that whomever posted that they thought Draco was the HBP, had read something that got their "juices" flowing-----and posted to see what others thought of the idea-----isn't that what "theories" are all about?
A couple of people seem to keep wanting to say that "canon doesn't support it"-----but, did canon (PS) tell us that there was going to be this gigundo snake in a secret chamber in the next book?
.....or, that Cedric was going to die, in the next book?
.....and, so-on, and so-on?
Yeah, now when we know what has happened we can look back and say: "OMG, there was the clue....."-----but, at-the-time, how many of us saw "whatever", really, coming?
I don't know that I believe that Draco is the HBP-----but, I tell ya what-----this conversation has really got me thinking-----if, for no other reason, than because of people wanting to say "canon doesn't support it". To me, that's the PERFECT reason why Draco could be the HBP-----because, as someone else said, that is something at which JKR is so good-----coming-up-with something not-so-obvious------sometimes, almost obscure-----the "red herring", or whatever.
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Steve Newton - May 5, 2005 12:05 pm (#417 of 1448)
Librarian
MoonRider, as you say "when we know what has happened we can look back and say: "OMG, there was the clue." That is the kind of documentation and clues that most would like to see when attached to speculation. The clues are there. Our job: find them! (The word 'theory' is vastly overused.)
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S.E. Jones - May 5, 2005 12:07 pm (#418 of 1448)
Let it snow!
--A couple of people seem to keep wanting to say that "canon doesn't support it"-----but, did canon (PS) tell us that there was going to be this gigundo snake in a secret chamber in the next book?-- MoonRider
The thing is, the canon didn't say there was going to be a snake in the Chamber, but it didn't say there wasn't going to be a snake either. It didn't say one way or another. Canon didn't say that Ron's rat was an animagus, but it didn't really say that Ron's rat wasn't an animagus. Theories should be based in canon as JKR sets up her plots with clues and hints; what good is all her hard work if they don't amount to anything... If theories aren't based in canon, then they are fanfiction. As for other people tearing down or building up theories, that's what this Forum is for, to share ideas and to debate them in a safe atmosphere, which I think fbv807 and Andrew have given us a perfect example of.
As for my opinion on Draco being a half-blood, well JKR has said, via multiple characters, that the Malfoys are pureblooded. How do we know anything in these books? By JKR coming out and telling us. How do we know that time-turners are strictly monitored? By JKR using a character in the know to tell us. How do we know who is or isn't a pureblood? By the same means. We are told Draco is a pureblood so I vote that she's telling us the truth. However, she hasn't told us one way or the other about, say, Dumbledore or James Potter, so they're fair game for speculation in my book....
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MoonRider - May 5, 2005 12:17 pm (#419 of 1448)
Edited May 5, 2005 12:56 pm
Steve: "That is the kind of documentation and clues that most would like to see when attached to speculation. The clues are there."
Okay-----you're right-----I, sort of, contradicted my ownself! What I was trying to say, was.....
have you ever heard the saying: "One man's junk is another man's treasure" (or, something like that)? Well, the same principle applies here, I feel, in that whomever posted that they thought Draco could be the HBP read "something" that could later prove to be a "clue", for all we know.....
someone else might come-along and read the exact same passage and say it was "junk"-----meaning, that it wasn't a clue because there's no other canon reference to support it.....
but, the thing is-----nobody knows what isn't a clue, until the book comes-out.
I don't know if I said that any better.....
ADDED:
S.E. Jones: You posted as I was typing my response to Steve.....
I'm not really sure what you're trying to tell me with the first half of your post.....
Firstly, I've never thought JKR was "lying" about anything-----Good Heavens! I do think, however, that she could/has thrown us "curves" every now-and-then.....
Secondly, I understand what you're saying about that there have been several characters tell us that Lucius/Draco are "purebloods"-----but then, Dean Thomas (I think it was) "told" us he is a "Mudblood"-----JKR told us on her site that he's a "Half-blood".....
so, why couldn't there be a "margin" that allows for Draco to not know who/what he truly is?
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S.E. Jones - May 5, 2005 1:17 pm (#420 of 1448)
Let it snow!
---but then, Dean Thomas (I think it was) "told" us he is a "Mudblood"-----JKR told us on her site that he's a "Half-blood"-- Moonrider
We were also told about many other plot points that will never make it into the books, such as the Weasley cousin and Hermione's sister. I think that Dean being a half-blood, unless she finds a way to work it in with the last two books, is one of those side plots that are going to be left behind and thus are irrelevant. What has been stated in canon, however, should be viewed and reviewed. What I was trying to state in my first paragraph is that if we are told something, either multiple times or told by certain characters, then a theory shouldn't contradict it (as Draco being a half-blood would), but instead a theory should be based on clues, hints, or a lack of information that she has repeatedly stepped around (such as Dumbledore and James Potter's "blood status"). We can theorize that Dumbledore might be half-blood based on his like of muggle candy or his want to allow everyone, half-blood and muggle-blood alike, into the school. Or, we might theorize that James was a pureblood because he had money and had a cockey attitude similar to Draco, and even Ron at times. We can theorize these things because we haven't been outright told anything one way or another. We can't theorize that Arthur is a half-blood because she has outright told us something to the contrary. That is why it is so important to look for clues that might be leading to something we haven't discovered yet, but still be mindful of what we should know to be fact.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 1:41 pm (#421 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Edited by Catherine May 5, 2005 1:53 pm
Thank you, everybody, for supporting the minority. Of course, I want to most particularly thank Andrew for attempting to contradict the theory, because if we contradicted all theories but one, then we would know the correct one.
Eponine - you said it is possible that Bowman Wright could be the HBP. I am going to turn it down. Unless Bowman suddenly gets a character status boost to more important than Harry, I don't think he'd be getting the title character rank. In post 426, I express who we don't want to be the HBP. Only major characters can be it. The only chance for somebody with a character status like Seamus, for example, is if they suddenly start appearing as frequently as Harry does. As Ron does. As Hermione does. As Dumbledore does. To me, HRH and DD are the four most important characters in the book.
You can't make somebody like Bowman Wright the HBP. Half of the readers (including myself, until you described him) don't even know who he is (was) or what he did. We have to be acquainted with the person. The character's status of HBP will be found out before the middle of the book if they're fairly important, but near the end of the book, as a revelation, if they're somebody with a lower character status and gets boosted up to be higher, more important, and suddenly given a chance to speak on every page.
----->I edited this post to maintain the respectful tone that the Forum members have all agreed to use.<------------Catherine A.
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hells456 - May 5, 2005 2:22 pm (#422 of 1448)
"You can't make somebody like Bowman Wright the HBP. Half of the readers (including myself, until you described him) don't even know who he is (was) or what he did. We have to be acquainted with the person." fbv807
Has JKR actually said that the HBP is a character we already know? I guess that puts an end to the 'new DADA teacher is the HBP' speculation.
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Eponine - May 5, 2005 2:33 pm (#423 of 1448)
Just because the HBP is the title character doesn't mean he's going to be a major character. Looking at the past titles, it's not necessary for the object of the title to be present in the entire book. Certainly each object/person has had an effect on the storyline of each book, but it does not mean the object/person is going to be the main attraction simply by virtue of being the title.
The only other book that had a person as the title was PoA, and we didn't even see him until the very end of the book. Besides that, he wasn't someone that we knew until that book. Yes, he had a one line mention in PS/SS, but no one knew who he was until PoA came out.
And it's the same with the other titles, we had no indication in PS/SS that there was a secret chamber hidden under the school. There were no clues that the Sirius Black who had a one line mention in PS/SS was really an Azkaban Prisoner. Nowhere in the books was anything written that would have helped us determine there would be a Triwizard Tournament which would involve a Goblet of Fire. The one exception would be OotP, because at the end of GoF, DD mentions getting the old crowd together. That is the only hint we have of a group of select wizards that fought Voldemort last time. Nothing in the previous titles indicate that we must have prior knowledge of the HBP.
So, the HBP does not have to be a major character. It does not have to be anyone we know. It does not have to be someone who is even alive.
The point is that the HBP could be almost anyone. We know that it is not Harry or Voldemort (and by extension Tom Riddle). There were several unsubstantiated reports from the Edinburgh Book Festival that JKR told a couple fans that Hagrid was not the HBP when she signed their books. Other than those, it's up for grabs. There's nothing to suggest that it cannot be a completely new character.
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Veritaserum - May 5, 2005 2:33 pm (#424 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, so, Andrew, here's a loophole for you. What if Draco actually isn't either Lucius or Narcissa's son? I know he looks like Lucius, so it would have to be Lucius who hypothetically fathered Draco out of wedlock with a Muggle or half-blood. Then (okay, I'm not sure why this would happen, but I'm sure there could be some reason), Narcissa agrees to raise him as her and Lucius's son. Therefore he thinks he's pureblood, he's raised pureblood, his family's lineage is intact, but unbeknownst to him, he actually is a half blood.
This is just an idea that came to me. I personally don't think Draco is the HBP, but it would be rather interesting if he was.
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 2:46 pm (#425 of 1448)
My goodness, you're all really passionate regarding your theories and ideas and gut feelings regarding your opinions. I suppose that's nice to see, but someone said that this forum is about giving all the ability to express their opinions about how they interpret JKRs words and if there's something you feel strongly about, ok, but there should be room to allow for others to feel as strongly too without it sparking a wizarding war, hopefully.
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Catherine - May 5, 2005 2:52 pm (#426 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Very Sirius,
You raise a good point. Sometimes even the best wizards allow their emotions to get the better of them. That's why the "Kippendo" spell was invented!
More to the point, though, if a Forum member has a concern, please feel free to email a host. There is a master list at the top of the Forum page, and it will show our email addresses. We all aim to maintain a respectful, fun place to indulge our obssessions.
Back on topic...I will admit that I no longer have any real idea about who the HBP is, and I think that is probably just what JKR intends.
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hells456 - May 5, 2005 2:58 pm (#427 of 1448)
It might work slightly better if Lucius was the one of dodgy parentage. That way Draco could be none the wiser, and come to think of it, Lucius doesn't have to know either. Someone posted earlier that they dreamt Voldemort had a son, it would be a neat twist if Lucius was his unknown illegitimate child. That is another way to ensure that his genes continued, if not Voldemort himself. I know this is highly unlikely and there is zero canon evidence. However we do have one character that lies about his blood status - Voldemort - at least Bellatrix didn't know. Why not another?
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 3:28 pm (#428 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Eponine - that is a very good point in response, that the HBP doesn't have to be a major character just because it's the title of the book. Sorry for any opposing thoughts I came up with (Catherine rightly edited my post when the words could have been taken a different way); let me change my wording that it would be disappointing if anybody like Bowman Wright was the HBP. JKR works up all that emotion about "It's the HBP! Ooh… I wonder who it could be" and then it's the inventor of the Golden Snitch who she hasn't quite gone into great depth character-wise. *wink* I hope you agree with me that it wouldn't quite work up to be her exciting work yet.
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 4:00 pm (#429 of 1448)
Hells, I think I was more concerned that I was dreaming about this than I was about the content of the dream. lol
It is interesting though that Malfoy would have some of Voldemorts old things, when there were other death eaters whom Voldemort might either trust more or regard higher. How do you suppose Malfoy ended up with these things? I have some theories, but i'm a bit apprehensive to post them.
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Eponine - May 5, 2005 4:19 pm (#430 of 1448)
fb87, I don't necessarily think it's Bowman Wright, but I don't necessarily think it's not Bowman Wright. That was just a theory I'd seen proposed on other sites, and since I hadn't seen it here, I thought I'd bring it up.
I really don't have any idea of who it is. I have a feeling that it's a historical character, and if it is then it would be an entirely new character or someone we've heard briefly mentioned. If it's not, and it turns out to be Seamus Finnegan, Lucious Malfoy, Grawp, or Tom the barman at The Leaky Cauldron then I'm not going to be disappointed in the slightest since I'm not really invested in any theory about the identity of the HBP.
I'm of the opinion that it's best not to be too invested in any theory, that way you're less likely to be disappointed. I just don't want to see somewhat plausible theories dismissed so casually.
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Amilia Smith - May 5, 2005 4:28 pm (#431 of 1448)
Very Sirius: Share your theories. People like me, who don't have the imagination to come up with our own theories, like reading what others have thought of, and the debate their ideas spark.
As to Lucius being Voldemort's son, as intriguing as that idea sounds, it has been quashed in the World Day chat.
Harry: Has Voldemort any children?
JK Rowling replies -> No. Voldemort as a father... now that's not a nice thought.
Mills.
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ellebell86 - May 5, 2005 4:47 pm (#432 of 1448)
Ron speculated that Lucius Malfoy was right in Voldermort's inner circle after the dark mark was sent up. Malfoy is also close enough that he was at the Ministry of magic in the Department of Mysteries to get the prophecy. He is also the one who tells the other Death Eaters not to attack Harry because he has the prophecy which suggests that Lucius was in direct contact with Voldermort.
Also if Lucius knows that Tom Riddle is really Lord Voldermort then it would be reasonable to question whether he knew that Voldermort is a Half-blood. If (key word IF, I dont really buy into all this myself) Lucius were a half-blood then he might use his knowledge of Voldermort's lineage to get into his inner circle. But I can already poke holes in this because why would Voldermort bother being blackmailed and not just kill Lucius himself. Any ideas?
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Mrs Brisbee - May 5, 2005 5:07 pm (#433 of 1448)
Don't most of the Death Eaters (with the possible exception of the Azkzban crew) know that Tom Riddle, Sr., was Voldemort's father, because they all Apparated to the graveyard after his rebirthing?
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Ladybug220 - May 5, 2005 5:37 pm (#434 of 1448)
...moves faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo
Mrs Brisbee, the Dork Lard gave that little speech to Harry before the DEs apparated to the graveyard. I assume that most of them do not know the significance of that particular graveyard. Also, they have probably learned the hard way not to question him too much.
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So Sirius - May 5, 2005 5:43 pm (#435 of 1448)
Awwww Amilia, i'm sure you've got some interesting theories.
I didn't mean to imply that Malfoy was Voldemorts son. I thought my dream about Voldemort having a son was a hoot. I do think it curious that Malfoy was able to get his hands on items, especially items he and or Dobby knew would destroy Harry and others. And this before Voldemort had his body back. Thanks for your input on that, elle.
Mrs. Brisbee, I think, from what I can recall, that when Voldemort touches the mark on his arm, all the death eaters are supposed to apparate to where he is at the time. I would assume that if they didn't know before, they knew after his little speech in the cemetery about his father. This doesn't mean that they knew his father was a muggle though. How they don't know, I don't know, but that's my understanding.
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Finn BV - May 5, 2005 6:15 pm (#436 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Glad we're on the same page, Eponine.
Now I have to get anybody out of my head as being the HBP for fear of them not being so in the real book! ;-) Hmm… now Tom the barman is by far the best idea I've heard yet! *laughs*
No wait… the Shrunken Head in the Knight Bus!
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Choices - May 5, 2005 7:27 pm (#437 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I haven't a clue who the HBP is, but I would be willing to bet that since this character is being introduced (or revealed) in the next to last book of the series, he is going to be very important and have a great impact on what happens at the end. There, I've stated the obvious. LOL
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 5, 2005 8:17 pm (#438 of 1448)
I don't think the HBP necessarily has to be someone we know. My guess is the name has been mentioned somewhere. Personally I'm rooting for Dedalus Diggle(no evidence I just like the name)! Each book JKR introduces new characters and new magic. Each book stands on its own for story line and plot. LPO
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The giant squid - May 6, 2005 4:52 am (#439 of 1448)
I will admit that I no longer have any real idea about who the HBP is, and I think that is probably just what JKR intends.--Catherine
I'm feeling the same way. I had a few ideas right off the bat just like everyone else, but the more we go on, the less likely each of them seems. I've decided to sit back and see what JKR comes up with. Judging from her five previous attempts, I doubt she'll disappoint me.
--Mike
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Chemyst - May 6, 2005 5:39 am (#440 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I had a few ideas right off the bat just like everyone else, but the more we go on, the less likely each of them seems. - Mike
My right-off-the bat idea was a portrait, and while I've mellowed a bit on that, I haven't abandoned it completely. A few more reasons for leaning heavily towards the speculations that HBP is not someone we know or who has had more than a passing mention:
The character of Nicholas Flamel was responsible for a pivotal plot point, yet we never saw him, and the only confirmation of his death, even though DD had predicted it, came on the JKR website. If Hermione ever read his obituary in the Daily Prophet, she never mentioned it. Flamel showed it is possible to have an entirely "off screen" role.
The ad campaign itself– while this is shaky and could be argued both ways, I see the ads with "Who is the Half-blood Prince?" more as an enticement to learn something new than an invitation to pick from the previously introduced cast.
But mostly there is the "Oh Look! " factor. If the HBP were to be someone we knew, then they have either known all along and have been hiding it, or they will just find out "Oh My Gosh! I'm a prince!" In either case, we'd need a really good justification. What special powers or privileges would a HBP have? Why would someone hide them, or would it take practice or knowledge to use them?
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Ponine - May 6, 2005 5:51 am (#441 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I still want to know; Just because JKR said the HBP is not Voldemort, must that necessarily exclude Tom Riddle??
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KWeldon - May 6, 2005 5:53 am (#442 of 1448)
Yes, JKR has verified in an interview that Voldemort and Tom Riddle are considered one and the same, and they are not the HBP.
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Betelgeuse Black - May 6, 2005 6:37 am (#443 of 1448)
My goodness, there's been a lot of activity here.
I wanted to say that I don't think that the HBP needs to be someone we know. Nobody had heard of Moody at the beginning of GoF and Umbridge was an unknown at the beginning of OotP. The same can be said for Lupin at the start of PoA. JKR can develop characters well in a short time.
I also agree that the HBP does not have to be a well developed character. In fact, the HBP could be (as has been suggested by others) a historical figure that represents an idea or theme of the book. The Goblet of Fire was a representation of the Triwizard Tournament. The HBP could represent the struggle of non-pure blood wizards for equality against prejudice. Maybe, the cover of the US edition is Dumbledore showing Harry the HBP in the pensieve so he can understand the struggle.
The bottom line is that I don't know and only JKR, her publishers, and Mary Granpre know who the HBP is...... But it sure is fun to speculate while we have no book to amuse ourselves with.
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Joanne R. Reid - May 6, 2005 9:56 am (#444 of 1448)
Hi,
Wow! I turn my back for a day or so, and suddenly a whole bunch of really great stuff appears. I'm like a kid surrounded by a vast sea of presents!
My only thought on the subject of the HBP is that it can't be any of the Malfoys. JKR has spoken on this subject, either directly in interviews or indirectly though her novels. To this time, all the direct and indirect evidence, i.e. canon, is that the Malfoys are pure-bloods.
So, I continue to look elsewhere to find the HBP. I find my choices are restricted. It isn't Harry, DD or LV/TMR. That leaves Dean Thomas and Seamus Finnegan as the only half-bloods with whom we have had any major contact. Seamus is very aware of his parentage, while, at least to this point, Dean is not. IMHO, I think it'd be cool if Dean did turn out to be someone rather special in the WW.
The good part is I will find out on July 16. The bad part is that July 16 is such a long time from now!
Accio! Half-blood prince!
Thanks,
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Tomoé - May 6, 2005 10:23 am (#445 of 1448)
Back in business
Oh my, so many posts in two days!
I just want to had that I believe there's no way for Lucius Malfoy can have a less that all pure-blood genealogical tree. Mrs Black, who own a book named Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Genealogy, have toujours pure as family motto and encouraged her son to become a DE, wouldn't have allow one of her daughter to wed a less than "all pure-blood as far as registers go" wizard. She wouldn't have allowed her negligence to spoil the family blood, so I believe she did a full research and traced every ancestor of Lucius to make sure he was pure.
The only way around is if one of Lucius or Drago's female ancestor had an affair.
----- Out Topic -----
Suspero -> I just had to get on here and tell "Tomoe" how much I love the winking neo-Classical picture. Where can I get one? Certainly seems in the spirit of things!
I'm so very sorry, I forgot to answer you back a month ago and only cross you post again as I was looking for something else. If you read my profile since that post, you know my avatar is home-made, so I know no place to find others like mine. But, since I made you wait that long, I'll made you one. Just send me a mail.
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Choices - May 6, 2005 10:25 am (#446 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I have read many theories as to who the HBP is and I think the best I have seen so far points to Godric Gryffindor. Perhaps the most amusing candidate though, is Argus Filch - his Quikspell envelope was purple and in one scene his face turns purple with rage - purple is the color of royalty. His cat (Squibs have familiars who can detect dark magic that the Squib can't see) was the first to be attacked by the basilisk - thus clearning the way to get rid of Filch, the heir to the throne. He is the only character we know who spends his time year round at Hogwarts - obviously hiding out from anti-royalists, he is tyranical and likes to torture annoying students, and there is a mythic tradition of kings in exile taking on menial jobs. Definitely an interesting (and amusing) theory based on canon. However, as intriguing as the argument for Filch is, I'll have to vote for Godric Gryffindor as the HBP.
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Veritaserum - May 6, 2005 2:07 pm (#447 of 1448)
Go Jays!
How about a once-or-twice-mentioned-but-otherwise unkown order member? Sturgis Podmore or Caradoc Dearborn (is that the one they never found the body of?). Kingsley Shacklebolt would be cool. (I totally saw Samuel L. Jackson from Star Wars as that character the second I read his description.)
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hells456 - May 6, 2005 2:13 pm (#448 of 1448)
I think the HBP will be Dean Thomas. The stage has already been set for him to take a larger role, as he may be going out with Ginny in the next book. If he does go out with Ginny, he will have more prominence early on in the book and it won't seem too forced. We also have a large number of references to him being good at drawing, a skill which I think he will develop in order to be able to paint magical portraits (another way to see Sirius again?). We have known him since the beginning because he shares Harry's dormitory. He is the only character that I can feasibly imagine finding out something this major with no warning. Does anyone know when he turns 17?
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Suspero - May 6, 2005 2:23 pm (#449 of 1448)
Professor
Tomoe -- Thanks! And thank you for all the info on how you created it.
About the HBP -- I'm still in favor of Gryffindor as a candidate, mainly because JKR said that "the HBP" was the original title for CoS.
I have a couple of reasons for not believing it's Malfoy -- it was okay with JKR to edit the Knockturn Alley trading scene out of the theatrical print of "CoS" the movie and I've heard it said that she nevers agrees to excising crucial details (which is why my wife insists, nearly shouting, that Percy Weasley being in the Slytherin hallway is a crucial piece of a later puzzle!). Justin Finch-Fletchley ranks high on my list of suspects, too.
But I still think that whatever and whoever is revealed in HBP has to sort well with CoS.
(and thanks again, Tomoe, LOL)
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Regan of Gong - May 6, 2005 6:09 pm (#450 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
I'm sceptical about Dean being the HBP because, if I am correct, JKR originally had him down for the role that Neville plays now, as the other boy the prophecy could refer to. Neville is a more interesting character and I think Dean's been swept off to one side, so I'm believing Neville is the HBP
Reegz
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 451 to 500)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:28 am
Choices - May 6, 2005 6:36 pm (#451 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Regan - Canon evidence suggests that Neville is definitely a pure blood.
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frogface - May 7, 2005 3:38 am (#452 of 1448)
I know this may sound weird, and more than a bit stupid, but I just want to remind everyone that we are labouring under the assumption that the half-blood prince is a half-blood...bare with me on this.
After all the royal family in England has German roots, we've had Scottish Royalty before too. With that in mind, plus remembering that we don't actually know exactly what the half-blood prince is, can we be sure that they will be half-blood. After all we know that DD has been referred to as "that champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles, Albus Dumbledore". Okey so its a mocking title, but in a way its not a hugely different title is it? Yet for all we know Albus could be Pure-Blood. The title Half-Blood Prince does lead one to believe that the person is a prince who is a half-blood, but isn't it things like that that we should be keeping our eyes open when it comes to the work of JKR?
Don't get me wrong, you're probably all right, the HBP probably is a half-blood. Just wanted to point out the possibility that they might not be.
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Stephanie M. - May 7, 2005 8:28 am (#453 of 1448)
This is my first real post so I thought why not my first post be about the HBP? So IMHO I think Crookshanks could be the Half Blood Prince. Here is my evidence:
-Crookshanks tries persistently to attack Scabbers from the moment he sees the rat. (PoA Page 49 UK) Hermione says, "All cats chase rats, Ron!" (I expect this is what most of us thought as well). However, Crookshanks knows that Scabbers was not what he seemed.
-Crookshanks protects Sirius before anyone else learns that he is innocent (PoA page 250-251 UK). These behaviors are definitely not normal for a cat, but many of us barely noticed. Perhaps we have overlooked this creature once again by excluding him from our candidates for the HBP.
-Crookshanks, as JKR has already revealed on her website, is a half-blood; he is half cat/half kneazle. A kneazle is described (in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them) as: "Intelligent, independent" and "has an uncanny ability to detect unsavory and suspicious characters." With these kneazle senses, Crookshanks could help the Order of the Phoenix considerably (enough to earn himself the title of book six?). If the HBP is a "good guy" then Crookshanks might be used in the Order. Also Animagi do not fool him and I don't think the Polyjuice Potion would either (however, Crookshanks is scarcely mentioned in GoF). Could this furry half blood become an extremely useful tool in the next two books? His secret must be discovered before long, likely in the next book.
- Having "flecked, speckled, or spotted fur, outsize ears and a tail like a lion's." The lion is a symbol of royalty and courage (Gryffindor) in many religions, astronomy, ancient Egypt and in general; therefore the prince is connected. Why would JK connect such a symbolic animal to Crookshanks? Maybe because his lion-like tail represents his position in royalty…
-George Cruikshank (1792-1878) is described in the Oxford Dictionary as an "English painter, illustrator and caricaturist. The most eminent political cartoonist of his day, he was known for exposing the private life of the Prince Regent (George IV Prince of Wales)." If Crookshanks is not the prince, then perhaps he will expose the character with his kneazle senses.
-Crookshanks wasn't in CoS (the title HBP would not apply), however it's possible that JKR cut him in order to develop his character more before introducing him into a major plot.
-All the criteria are there: Crookshanks is a male, he is a half-blood, and there is that slight touch of royalty… Is JK trying to fool us once again with her subtle foreshadowing?
This was posted on MuggleNet.com. This really got me thinking, but I think Crookshanks is a good candidate for HBP. JM2K
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Gerald Costales - May 7, 2005 9:10 am (#454 of 1448)
Nice post Stephanie M. And welcome to the Forum.
At this point, it could be anyone or I guess anything if Crookshanks is the HBP.
But, I think that I must mention Remus Lupin as a possible HBP candidate. Like Dean Thomas, JKR has mentioned that Lupin is a Half-Blood. I've posted this before but if you wanted to prevent someone from gaining his throne or title what better way than to sic a Werewolf on him. History is full of intrigue in regards to royalty. And Lupin is definitely princely.
Along with Dean Thomas and Godric Gryffindor, I believe Lupin is strong candidate for the HBP. ;-) GC
PS I wouldn't be disappointed if Hagrid was the HBP either. ;-) GC
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Dumbledore - May 7, 2005 9:18 am (#455 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I agree with frogface that the HBP does not have to necessarily be a half-blood, or even royal at all. He could be a champion of half-bloods (much like how Dumbledore was the champion of commoners), thus excusing him from being either a half blood or true royalty. As a result, it could be anybody who finds himself in the role of championing the rights of half-bloods. It doesn't even have to be a pre-destined role, more like something that someone just acquires in the next book through an action that they take. For example, although I don't believe this myself, hypothetically even Ron could do something that takes a stand in the rights of those who are not pure-blooded wizards, and by doing so he acquires himself the philosophical title of half-blood prince.
Other than that, however, my best bet would be Godric Gryffindor.
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GryffEndora - May 7, 2005 10:04 am (#456 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Frogface & Dumbledore It has been discussed earlier on this thread that the foreign language translations of the title read "Harry Potter and the Prince who is a Half-blood". You can find part of the discussion here.
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Finn BV - May 7, 2005 10:45 am (#457 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Stephanie, that Crookshanks is the HBP is a really insightful idea. Since he is half-cat and half-kneazle, that would make him half-blood among his own species. Your connection to George Cruikshank may be a little far-fetched in some people's minds, but I think it's really clever that you found his name! "He was known for exposing the private life of the Prince…" That's just like Crookshanks exposing to Sirius the passwords as well as Scabbers/Pettigrew!
I believe I said somewhere else that we'd have to find out more about Crookshanks (or maybe that was Firenze; I must sort out my memory!) before the series is over - JKR just can't let it die without a reveal of the secret.
The only possible contradiction to this is that Crookshanks made his first appearance in PoA, not CoS. You are right to address that, but I think we'd have to find a stronger connection. Perhaps Crookshanks was once feeding information to Tom Riddle aka Voldie? But as you say, JKR could have cut this character for purposes of more character development in PoA. She has also said that the answer to the end of the series (thus including Book 6) is in the CoS movie. Perhaps there are some lines that refer to an information sensor (such as Crookshanks)? I don't know… we'll have to check that one out. For now, though, I think you bring up an excellent point!
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Gerald Costales - May 8, 2005 4:35 am (#458 of 1448)
Reference: HP6: the Half Blood Prince (28 Jun 04 - 14 Mar 05) Thread
(re: post# 2561)
". . .I checked the French translation for "Half Blood prince" on the French version of JKR's site... it's "Le Prince de Sang-Mêlé" . I suppose this is cannon, so it means that this Prince IS half-blood... Else it would be "le Prince DES sang-mêlés"... (I'm French, therefore I'm sure I'm not making a mistake here!)" Delightful Task!
GryffEndora, Thanks for the link. Many of you are just too advanced when it comes to posts including links to old posts, etc. I'll just resort to quoting old posts and referencing them.
I think that at this time I'm leaning to the idea that the Half-Blood Prince is of course Male but also both a Half-Blood and a Prince. That is why I've stopped posting on some candidates for the HBP that would stretch the imagination. (see post# 2562 from the above referenced thread)
We know that both Remus Lupin and Dean Thomas are Half-Bloods but the Prince part is unknown. So, I've argued that both Lupin and Thomas could somehow be Princes to be the HBP. (I won't rehash my ideas about how either could be Princes.)
I've had several past posts supporting Godric Gryffindor as the HBP. And despite my above statements, Godric remains the candidate that makes most sense to me. ;-) GC
PS Of course when JKR reveals who the HBP is, it will all make sense. Waiting impatiently until July 16th. ;-) GC
PPS All that being said, ideas like Crookshanks being the HBP are valid in the Forum until Book 6 is released. But also I'm currently leaning to the idea that the HBP is human. And most likely one of the "Good Guys". ;-) GC
.*edited*
HAPPY MOTHER"S DAY!!!
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frogface - May 8, 2005 6:23 am (#459 of 1448)
"Harry Potter and the Prince who is a Half-blood". - Snappy title
nevertheless, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info, I hadn't seen anything of it before.
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Dumbledore - May 8, 2005 7:32 am (#460 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Thanks for the info from me as well. That certainly narrows down my thought processes a bit.
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Choices - May 8, 2005 9:16 am (#461 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
If this were earlier in the series, I might entertain the idea that the HBP will not be a human character, but this late I agree with Gerald that the HBP almost has to be human. I see this character as playing an important role in helping Harry to vanquish Voldemort and I think he will have to be human to do that in a significant way. I also vote for Godric Gryffindor to be the HBP.
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Steve Newton - May 8, 2005 9:27 am (#462 of 1448)
Librarian
Godric has a lot of appeal as the Half Blood Prince. I just have a hard time imagining that a prince would go off into the wilds to start a school.
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Choices - May 8, 2005 9:38 am (#463 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Somehow I don't think of Godric as a Prince in the royalty sense - but if he is, then I see him as being the younger Prince perhaps - the one who is unlikely to ascend to the throne, so he goes off to found a school. I just don't think of wizards as being in royal families, although I concede it is possible. Usually royalty marries someone of royal blood to maintain the royal line, and if this prince is half-blood, then one of his fore-fathers/fore-mothers married someone who wasn't royal and was possibly magical - depending on which parent was magical and which was royal.......or vice versa. Good grief, now I think I've confundicated myself. LOL Does this make any sense at all????
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Miriam Huber - May 8, 2005 1:22 pm (#464 of 1448)
It has been said before, I just want to repeat the point that according to JKR´s own vocabulary, a "half-blood" is someone who is half muggle- and half wizard-born, but fully human, whereas people like Hagrid who is half-giant, are half-breeds. It gets quite clear at least in OoP whe Umbridge constantly is at war with half-breeds of all sort but is never mentioned to have problems with half-bloods or muggle-borns. So, in my opinion, Crookshanks or Hagrid are definitely ruled out.
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Veritaserum - May 8, 2005 1:38 pm (#465 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I don't really belong to the camp of GG=HBP supporters, but just to give an example that would answer Steve's question: what about Prince Henry the Navigator, who founded a school for explorers?
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Ms Amanda - May 8, 2005 1:43 pm (#466 of 1448)
I really don't have a clue who the Half-Blood Prince is. But, given ideas that he might be a historical person, such as Godric, may I suggest that we might get more information about the Bloody Baron in book 6?
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Finn BV - May 8, 2005 1:44 pm (#467 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Miriam - you raise a good point which I had thought about when reading Stephanie's theory. However, I think that it could be argued that a half-blood within a certain species could be half-cat, half-kneazle. Hagrid can be ruled out because he is human, and thus technically a half-breed. But Crookshanks, within cats, is half-blood in cat's point of view. Don't kneazles always take cat form? That would mean that if you're a cat, and you're something other than a cat, you'd have to be a kneazle as well. That same rule holds for wizards. If you're a wizard, but you're something other than a wizard, you'd have to be a Muggle (assuming you're all in one breed - and kneazles could fall under the breed of a cat).
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Steve Newton - May 8, 2005 4:13 pm (#468 of 1448)
Librarian
Veritaserum, I could just slap myself for forgetting Prince Henry the Navigator and those pesky explorers. 19 years of education shot.
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MickeyCee3948 - May 8, 2005 8:46 pm (#469 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I believe that the HBP will be the new DADA teacher. Every book in the series has introduced a new DADA teacher who has not been in any previous books. So if JKR follows her trend then the new DADA teacher will be an entirely new character.
I think that at this point in the series as JKR has stated she cannot continue to add new characters that will require major plot lines. She has to start closing down the series and answering questions.
I have read most of the posts on this thread and a great number of them are very thought provocating. I do not have any better of an idea of who the HBP is than anyone else. I just think that it will be a new character who we have not been introduced to and one who exists in the current wizard world. Therefore I am not of the Godric as HBP crowd or Hagrid, Draco, Crookshanks, current student crowds.
Of everyone who has been suggested, the only logical current character to me is Dumbledore. But since I can't see him as the next DADA teacher then that kinda ruins my guess.
I figure that we will all be just as much in the dark on July 15th as we are now. Unless JKR gives us all a great big, huge clue which brings it all into focus. LOL.
Mikie
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Veritaserum - May 9, 2005 2:18 pm (#470 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I just can't wait until July 16, when the few (if any) who have gotten it right will all be shouting "I knew it!" whereas the rest of us will either be able to say "Why didn't I think of that?!" or "NEVER saw that one coming!"
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So Sirius - May 9, 2005 2:55 pm (#471 of 1448)
There may be a good reason, different to what we think, to why Dumbledore hasn't allowed Snape to teach DADA. But, it may be time for this to be allowed. Snape might be the new DADA teacher and we may see a new Potions master.
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Aurora Gubbins - May 9, 2005 3:41 pm (#472 of 1448)
I don't think Snape will be DADA master before book 7, if at all. You never know, he might die saving MISS Granger, the insufferable know-all.
Aurora xx
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Finn BV - May 9, 2005 3:52 pm (#473 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
LOL - Aurora, I just read this thread, went to the "Potion Puzzle realtes to DADA teachers" thread, and came back and here you are posting the same thing as me! :-)
I slightly differ from you in saying that he'll save that girl who prides herself in not being able to restrain calling out of turn whilst looking on to page 394 (made-up, don't quote me on that), but, here it is: fbv807, "Potion Puzzle relates to DADA teachers" #99, 9 May 2005 3:49 pm
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 9, 2005 8:02 pm (#474 of 1448)
I like the idea of Snape saving Hermione! It will be fun looking back on this thread after July 16. LPO
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Ginerva Potter - May 10, 2005 3:51 am (#475 of 1448)
Regan - Hi. JKR didn't have Dean down for Neville's part. She said on her site she originally had Dean's story in the books, but sacrificed Dean's plot line for Neville's because Neville's story was more important to the central plot. I don't know how to do links, but it's located in the Edits section on the Extra Stuff page. Sorry, sometimes I'm an insufferable know-it-all, too.
Ginny
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 11:52 am (#476 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Many people seem to have a problem with the idea that Draco is the HBP because there are no clues in the books that lead us to believe the Malfoys are anything but the pure-blooded snobs that they seem to be. But we must remember what JKR has said about the HBP's story.
I clung to the title for a while, even though all trace of the 'Prince' storyline had disappeared. JKR's website
There is no trace of that storyline left in 'Chamber of Secrets'. Edinburgh Book Festival
JKR has made it clear, several times, that there are no remnants of the HBP storyline in book two. Any hint that the Malfoys aren't pure-bloods would be part of the HBP storyline. Therefore, the total lack of canonical evidence actually supports the theory.
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Steve Newton - May 10, 2005 12:16 pm (#477 of 1448)
Librarian
Somehow, I think that the lack of canonical evidence actually supports the lack of canonical evidence. In other words, to make the case you must have positive evidence. The lack of conflicting evidence, or just lack of evidence, does not support any case.
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Cwtchy Hedwig - May 10, 2005 1:55 pm (#478 of 1448)
Having read Chamber of Secrets for the 6th time, I am now convinced that Crookshanks is the Half Blood Prince. I noticed similarities between the descriptions of Crookshanks and the description given by JK Rowling of someone in the HBP:"(He)looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his BUSHY EYEBROWS, he had keen YELLOWISH EYES behind a pair of wire rimmed spectacles...". The mention of his yellow eyes was the biggest clue. I believe Crookshanks is an animagi (let's face it he is way to smart to be just a cat)and this would be a perfect description of his human from particularly the yellow eyes which JK Rowling used repeatedly when describing Crookshanks. She has also stated that something significant happens in Book 2 and that she was going to call book 2 Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince but it didn't fit the storyline when she finished it. Crookshanks was introduced in Book 2, coincidence?
What does everyone else think?
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Dumbledore - May 10, 2005 1:57 pm (#479 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Cwtchy Hedwig, Crookshanks was actually introduced in book 3. However, some people do speculate on the connection between the lion character and Crookshanks. Since JKR did say that the HBP plotline was taken out of Chamber of Secrets, it is possible that Crookshanks was supposed to be in there if he was the HBP, but was taken out. Good catch!
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Tomoé - May 10, 2005 2:01 pm (#480 of 1448)
Back in business
On JKR's website, she said Crookshanks is not an animagus:
Crookshanks is an Animagus
No, he's not, but he's not pure cat either. If you buy Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (all royalties to Comic Relief, which means you're helping some of the poorest children around the world) you might just be able to work out what Crookshanks really is.
But the cat/Kneazle could still be the HbP.
Edit: er ... shouldn't there be a hyphen between Half and Blood in the title of this thread?
Edit: I corrected a typo.
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Cwtchy Hedwig - May 10, 2005 2:06 pm (#481 of 1448)
Yes, your're correct Dumbledore. Crookshanks was introduced in book 3 (I've been on a harry-marathon, reading them all back to back and they've all merged into one!)
I'm looking for more clues now I have my theory. Anyone else noticed any evidence?
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Finn BV - May 10, 2005 2:34 pm (#482 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Cwtchy Hedwig - did you read Stephanie M.'s post? (Stephanie M., "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #453, 7 May 2005 8:28 am) Are you agreeing with her theory, or had you not noticed it? She shares some evidence that she found on Crookshanks being the HBP. I agreed with her, and said that just one of the few arguments that could be made was that Crookshanks was not introduced in CoS, but rather in PoA. She addresses this by saying that JKR probably just cut Crookshanks to allow for further plot development in PoA.
I like your connection to the description JKR has given us. You say that he is "just way too smart to be a cat," but as Tomoé said, he is part kneazle, which is just what Mrs. Norris and Mr. Tibbles (Mrs. Figg's cat) are. Crookshanks' abilities are so intelligent that, you remember, he was the one who gave the passwords to Sirius in PoA.
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 2:45 pm (#483 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
The lack of conflicting evidence, or just lack of evidence, does not support any case.
Steve, throughout the first five books, there is lots of conflicting evidence to the theory that the Malfoys are half-bloods, but I maintain that the lack of evidence that they are half-bloods does, in fact, support the the theory that Draco is the HBP.
My theory is that the HBP storyline will be a series of discoveries and events that ultimately lead to revelation that the Malfoys are-half-bloods. All hints and clues that point to the Malfoys being half-bloods would be part of the HBP storyline, and JKR has specified that the this storyline will be told in book six. So, if there was any canonical evidence in the first five books for the Malfoys being half-bloods, my theory that Draco is the HBP would be invalid. Since there is no evidence, Draco is still a valid candidate for HBP.
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The giant squid - May 10, 2005 5:33 pm (#484 of 1448)
I have a new theory: Fang is the HBP.
What? You don't think so? Next you'll be saying Dumbledore's not the giant squid. Preposterous!
--Mike
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Choices - May 10, 2005 5:35 pm (#485 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Cwtchy - "he had keen YELLOWISH EYES behind a pair of wire rimmed spectacles...".
Please tell me I did not miss the clue in the book about Crookshanks wearing wire-rimmed spectacles? I thought I read the book very carefully, but I must have missed that part. ;-)
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Finn BV - May 10, 2005 6:20 pm (#486 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Choices, perhaps when Crookshanks is at work hard he dons a lovely pair of glasses…
I picture him, when he's really being a kneazle and not just a cat, sitting at a desk doing work, and I guess he doesn't have perfect vision…
Actually, I imagine this description to be that of the new DADA teacher, already standing in the room while HRH and the class come in. He'll be noticed by Harry, and this is his description.
Wait… I've got it… put everything together and what do you get? CROOKSHANKS, THE HBP, IS THE NEW DADA TEACHER! AND, ADDING RECENT DEVELOPMENTS, DUMBLEDORE TAKES ON TWO ANIMAGI FORMS: GIANT SQUID AND DOG, THE LATTER OF WHICH IS MORE COMMONLY KNOWN BY THE WORD "FANG"! Brilliant!
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 6:35 pm (#487 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
According to the Lexicon, Fang is a Great Dane. Hamlet is also a Dane, and a Prince. You may be on to something, GS.
My current list, starting with the most likely to be the HBP, is Draco, Lucius, Godric, New Character, Snape, Dumbledore, Crookshanks, Fudge, Fang and Dobby.
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Choices - May 10, 2005 7:05 pm (#488 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Actually, according to canon, Fang is a boarhound.
"Hang on," he said. "Back, Fang."
He let them in, struggling to keep a hold on the collar of an enormous black boarhound.
page 174 of SS, chapter 8
I think this breed can also be called a Neopolitan Mastiff, but in the book he is called a boarhound. I can't remember who clued me in to that, but some kind soul did.
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GryffEndora - May 10, 2005 7:16 pm (#489 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The dog that plays Fang in the movies is indeed a Neapolitan Mastiff. However, I have found boarhound described as both a mastiff and a Great Dane. Basically it is a dog that was used to hunt wild boar. Unfortunately this does not narrow down our options as to what specific breed of dog Fang is.
I am Used Vlad, I have to say that the Great Dane, Hamlet Dane Prince connection to Fang being the HBP had me laughing out loud. What a great theory!
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 7:31 pm (#490 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Thanks, GryfEndora. Now if I could just get people to stop laughing at my serious theories.
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frogface - May 11, 2005 2:44 am (#491 of 1448)
Vlad I'm not entirely sure I understand your logic. You're saying that because JKR said that she took all the HbP stuff out of book 2, it means that the fact that the Malfoy's are said to be pure blood in book 2 doesn't mean anything? Right...
So I guess the real reason Hagrid was arrested hasn't come to light yet, aragog was infact just a scary looking tree and Harry and Ron weren't looking properly, Ginny and Harry both just bumped their heads and imagined everything in the CoS, Lockhart is actually really brave but misunderstood, and Fred is George but covered it up by taking the polyjuice potion.
Of course now I also see that Draco is on the list for most likely candidates to be HbP. I won't bother reading book 2 from now on, it clearly has no bearing in the series whatsoever.
EDIT: Reading this back I realised it sounded quite nasty. I just want to say that thats not my intention. I'm just unable to take your theory seriously because of the way you've argued it so far. If you can find me some plausable evidence to suggest Draco or Lucius isn't pure-blood then I'll back you up all the way.
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Ms Amanda - May 11, 2005 4:51 am (#492 of 1448)
Vlad, I'd like to take a respectful stab at validating your logic. JKR said that she removed all references to the HBP storyline from CoS when she decided that there was information she was revealing too soon. My understanding is that you are taking that to mean she has given the reader no clue about who the HBP is. Ever. In the whole series. Because that would have given us information too early in the series.
It is also, I'm deducing, your point that it would work well in CoS to reveal that Draco (and thus Lucius) are not purebloods at all.
And you are saying, as I read your posts, that JKR gave us information to lead us AWAY from thinking that Draco is a half-blood.
Thus, when you are saying that the lack of canonical evidence supports your theory, you are saying that your theory is that JKR has removed all clues as to who the HBP is. From there your theory grows to say that we must look at someone who we would not suspect. The one person we would not expect to be a half-blood is Draco Malfoy because there is so much apparent canonical evidence pointing to him being pure blood. Therefore, Draco in your theory fits well with being the HBP.
OK, now I am going to take you very, very seriously. I will start by assuming that your premises are true. JKR has given no clues as to who the HBP is and she has led us away from the identity. Also, I will assume for the moment Draco is half-blood even though the canon contains no evidence.
The weakness I find is that I ought to take the jump and say that Draco is the HBP even if he is half-blood. Rather, I would say, under your ideas, it would make sense to look at all pure blood wizards. Also, as JKR has left us, according to your statements, with a considerable lack of clues as to who this person might be, it would be plausible for us to be shocked that someone was actually royalty. So we could throw in those we know to be half-bloods.
I'm looking for an explanation of how it would have worked for Draco to be a half-blood in CoS. It would strengthen support in my mind to have a convincing explanation of how it would add to the storyline for the Malfoys to be less than pureblood now or how it would have worked for HRH to have suspected Draco of being the Heir of Slytherin and of being the Half-Blood Prince in CoS.
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Chemyst - May 11, 2005 4:55 am (#493 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Has anyone suggested the HBP is Trevor? Perhaps he is just waiting to be kissed.
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Finn BV - May 11, 2005 6:07 am (#494 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Vlad, I don't believe I've done so, so thank you for joining the Draco=HBP theorizers! Your evidence, or the lack thereof, is very helpful
That said, let me eliminate a new character as the HBP. Why would JKR have the choice to introduce a character either in Book 2 or Book 6? An option of four years doesn't seem that reasonable - maybe if it were consecutive books I would understand that, but four years seems like a lot of time. That is why it has to be somebody who we already know.
This is slightly irrelevant to my previous paragraph and a bit contradictory against Vlad, but… when i think of CoS, the two new, just introduced to us characters I think of are: Tom Riddle, and Lucius Malfoy. The central plot of the books reveals to us about most of Voldie's background, but completely lacks Malfoy's background. Thus JKR could have revealed the Malfoys in the same book as revealing Voldie, but she decided to wait till Book 6. That is my understanding and theory of why either Lucius or Draco, more likely Draco to end his "mudblood" lines, are half-blood.
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Ainsley Black - May 11, 2005 6:41 am (#495 of 1448)
Edited by S.E. Jones May 11, 2005 9:08 am
can i just steer the conversation to the new cover art for the delux edition?
what does everyone think? Looks to me like they are in the dark forest and harry looks like he's in his pyjamas!!!?
->Please use proper capitalization in your posts for those of us who are either young or do not speak English as a first language. Thanks!<- SE Jones
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KWeldon - May 11, 2005 6:59 am (#496 of 1448)
My first thought, since there is a fence there as if there is a dwelling that they are looking at (a residence?), is that Dumbledore takes Harry to Spinners End, which is someone's home, or his parents' former home in Godric's Hollow. Since the fence is broken, perhaps the rest of the area is in disarray, and it is the former home of the Potters.
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Ponine - May 11, 2005 7:13 am (#497 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I have not read all posts, so forgive me if I am reiterating needlessly.... But, how about Firenze or another centaur? could he be the half-blood prince, somehow? I am aware of what was stated concerning half-breed and half-blood in wizarding terms, but that would not prevent Firenze or any other half-centaur from being referred to as half-(centaur)-blood in their communications...? What do you think? (just pelt me, that is ok)
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Suspero - May 11, 2005 7:24 am (#498 of 1448)
Professor
KWeldon -- I'm glad you said that about "Spinner's End", it does make me wonder if that's a place... but I'm also glad that someone didn't immediately jump in suggesting that Aragog is the HBP and they've gone to enlist his aid (oops, I didn't really suggest that!).
For my "2 cents" I'd just like to reiterate that I still don't think the identity of the HBP and the plotline of the novel revolves around "who" but around the very topic of even being conscious and obsessed with bloodlines in the first place -- the very moniker "half-blood prince", like the perjorative "mudblood" seems to me acrimonious and divisive and at the roots of the whole conflict in the first place.
And even though JKR removed the HBP from the title of CoS and apparently excised a fair bit of story I still think that whatever the denouement is it's going to be something that sorts well with CoS and with clues in that book.
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KWeldon - May 11, 2005 8:01 am (#499 of 1448)
I agree, Suspero. I think there will be a mention in passing that Godric Gryffindor was in his time referred (maybe even by Slytherin himself) as the Half-Blood Prince, and the story is really about the issues of blood and the fight against discrimination, that is, what the war is really about.
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Steve Newton - May 11, 2005 8:43 am (#500 of 1448)
Librarian
I don't really want to suggest Crookshanks as the HBP but...JKR has said that Crookshanks is not an animagus. This pretty much rules him out. However, one of the Chocolate Frog cards is of Circe who was noted for transforming men into animals.
I don't think that it is Crookshanks but you never know.
I do think that it will be someone that we have already met.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Regan - Canon evidence suggests that Neville is definitely a pure blood.
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frogface - May 7, 2005 3:38 am (#452 of 1448)
I know this may sound weird, and more than a bit stupid, but I just want to remind everyone that we are labouring under the assumption that the half-blood prince is a half-blood...bare with me on this.
After all the royal family in England has German roots, we've had Scottish Royalty before too. With that in mind, plus remembering that we don't actually know exactly what the half-blood prince is, can we be sure that they will be half-blood. After all we know that DD has been referred to as "that champion of commoners, of Mudbloods and Muggles, Albus Dumbledore". Okey so its a mocking title, but in a way its not a hugely different title is it? Yet for all we know Albus could be Pure-Blood. The title Half-Blood Prince does lead one to believe that the person is a prince who is a half-blood, but isn't it things like that that we should be keeping our eyes open when it comes to the work of JKR?
Don't get me wrong, you're probably all right, the HBP probably is a half-blood. Just wanted to point out the possibility that they might not be.
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Stephanie M. - May 7, 2005 8:28 am (#453 of 1448)
This is my first real post so I thought why not my first post be about the HBP? So IMHO I think Crookshanks could be the Half Blood Prince. Here is my evidence:
-Crookshanks tries persistently to attack Scabbers from the moment he sees the rat. (PoA Page 49 UK) Hermione says, "All cats chase rats, Ron!" (I expect this is what most of us thought as well). However, Crookshanks knows that Scabbers was not what he seemed.
-Crookshanks protects Sirius before anyone else learns that he is innocent (PoA page 250-251 UK). These behaviors are definitely not normal for a cat, but many of us barely noticed. Perhaps we have overlooked this creature once again by excluding him from our candidates for the HBP.
-Crookshanks, as JKR has already revealed on her website, is a half-blood; he is half cat/half kneazle. A kneazle is described (in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them) as: "Intelligent, independent" and "has an uncanny ability to detect unsavory and suspicious characters." With these kneazle senses, Crookshanks could help the Order of the Phoenix considerably (enough to earn himself the title of book six?). If the HBP is a "good guy" then Crookshanks might be used in the Order. Also Animagi do not fool him and I don't think the Polyjuice Potion would either (however, Crookshanks is scarcely mentioned in GoF). Could this furry half blood become an extremely useful tool in the next two books? His secret must be discovered before long, likely in the next book.
- Having "flecked, speckled, or spotted fur, outsize ears and a tail like a lion's." The lion is a symbol of royalty and courage (Gryffindor) in many religions, astronomy, ancient Egypt and in general; therefore the prince is connected. Why would JK connect such a symbolic animal to Crookshanks? Maybe because his lion-like tail represents his position in royalty…
-George Cruikshank (1792-1878) is described in the Oxford Dictionary as an "English painter, illustrator and caricaturist. The most eminent political cartoonist of his day, he was known for exposing the private life of the Prince Regent (George IV Prince of Wales)." If Crookshanks is not the prince, then perhaps he will expose the character with his kneazle senses.
-Crookshanks wasn't in CoS (the title HBP would not apply), however it's possible that JKR cut him in order to develop his character more before introducing him into a major plot.
-All the criteria are there: Crookshanks is a male, he is a half-blood, and there is that slight touch of royalty… Is JK trying to fool us once again with her subtle foreshadowing?
This was posted on MuggleNet.com. This really got me thinking, but I think Crookshanks is a good candidate for HBP. JM2K
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Gerald Costales - May 7, 2005 9:10 am (#454 of 1448)
Nice post Stephanie M. And welcome to the Forum.
At this point, it could be anyone or I guess anything if Crookshanks is the HBP.
But, I think that I must mention Remus Lupin as a possible HBP candidate. Like Dean Thomas, JKR has mentioned that Lupin is a Half-Blood. I've posted this before but if you wanted to prevent someone from gaining his throne or title what better way than to sic a Werewolf on him. History is full of intrigue in regards to royalty. And Lupin is definitely princely.
Along with Dean Thomas and Godric Gryffindor, I believe Lupin is strong candidate for the HBP. ;-) GC
PS I wouldn't be disappointed if Hagrid was the HBP either. ;-) GC
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Dumbledore - May 7, 2005 9:18 am (#455 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
I agree with frogface that the HBP does not have to necessarily be a half-blood, or even royal at all. He could be a champion of half-bloods (much like how Dumbledore was the champion of commoners), thus excusing him from being either a half blood or true royalty. As a result, it could be anybody who finds himself in the role of championing the rights of half-bloods. It doesn't even have to be a pre-destined role, more like something that someone just acquires in the next book through an action that they take. For example, although I don't believe this myself, hypothetically even Ron could do something that takes a stand in the rights of those who are not pure-blooded wizards, and by doing so he acquires himself the philosophical title of half-blood prince.
Other than that, however, my best bet would be Godric Gryffindor.
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GryffEndora - May 7, 2005 10:04 am (#456 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Frogface & Dumbledore It has been discussed earlier on this thread that the foreign language translations of the title read "Harry Potter and the Prince who is a Half-blood". You can find part of the discussion here.
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Finn BV - May 7, 2005 10:45 am (#457 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Stephanie, that Crookshanks is the HBP is a really insightful idea. Since he is half-cat and half-kneazle, that would make him half-blood among his own species. Your connection to George Cruikshank may be a little far-fetched in some people's minds, but I think it's really clever that you found his name! "He was known for exposing the private life of the Prince…" That's just like Crookshanks exposing to Sirius the passwords as well as Scabbers/Pettigrew!
I believe I said somewhere else that we'd have to find out more about Crookshanks (or maybe that was Firenze; I must sort out my memory!) before the series is over - JKR just can't let it die without a reveal of the secret.
The only possible contradiction to this is that Crookshanks made his first appearance in PoA, not CoS. You are right to address that, but I think we'd have to find a stronger connection. Perhaps Crookshanks was once feeding information to Tom Riddle aka Voldie? But as you say, JKR could have cut this character for purposes of more character development in PoA. She has also said that the answer to the end of the series (thus including Book 6) is in the CoS movie. Perhaps there are some lines that refer to an information sensor (such as Crookshanks)? I don't know… we'll have to check that one out. For now, though, I think you bring up an excellent point!
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Gerald Costales - May 8, 2005 4:35 am (#458 of 1448)
Reference: HP6: the Half Blood Prince (28 Jun 04 - 14 Mar 05) Thread
(re: post# 2561)
". . .I checked the French translation for "Half Blood prince" on the French version of JKR's site... it's "Le Prince de Sang-Mêlé" . I suppose this is cannon, so it means that this Prince IS half-blood... Else it would be "le Prince DES sang-mêlés"... (I'm French, therefore I'm sure I'm not making a mistake here!)" Delightful Task!
GryffEndora, Thanks for the link. Many of you are just too advanced when it comes to posts including links to old posts, etc. I'll just resort to quoting old posts and referencing them.
I think that at this time I'm leaning to the idea that the Half-Blood Prince is of course Male but also both a Half-Blood and a Prince. That is why I've stopped posting on some candidates for the HBP that would stretch the imagination. (see post# 2562 from the above referenced thread)
We know that both Remus Lupin and Dean Thomas are Half-Bloods but the Prince part is unknown. So, I've argued that both Lupin and Thomas could somehow be Princes to be the HBP. (I won't rehash my ideas about how either could be Princes.)
I've had several past posts supporting Godric Gryffindor as the HBP. And despite my above statements, Godric remains the candidate that makes most sense to me. ;-) GC
PS Of course when JKR reveals who the HBP is, it will all make sense. Waiting impatiently until July 16th. ;-) GC
PPS All that being said, ideas like Crookshanks being the HBP are valid in the Forum until Book 6 is released. But also I'm currently leaning to the idea that the HBP is human. And most likely one of the "Good Guys". ;-) GC
.*edited*
HAPPY MOTHER"S DAY!!!
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frogface - May 8, 2005 6:23 am (#459 of 1448)
"Harry Potter and the Prince who is a Half-blood". - Snappy title
nevertheless, I stand corrected. Thanks for the info, I hadn't seen anything of it before. - - - - - - - - - -
Dumbledore - May 8, 2005 7:32 am (#460 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Thanks for the info from me as well. That certainly narrows down my thought processes a bit.
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Choices - May 8, 2005 9:16 am (#461 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
If this were earlier in the series, I might entertain the idea that the HBP will not be a human character, but this late I agree with Gerald that the HBP almost has to be human. I see this character as playing an important role in helping Harry to vanquish Voldemort and I think he will have to be human to do that in a significant way. I also vote for Godric Gryffindor to be the HBP.
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Steve Newton - May 8, 2005 9:27 am (#462 of 1448)
Librarian
Godric has a lot of appeal as the Half Blood Prince. I just have a hard time imagining that a prince would go off into the wilds to start a school.
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Choices - May 8, 2005 9:38 am (#463 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Somehow I don't think of Godric as a Prince in the royalty sense - but if he is, then I see him as being the younger Prince perhaps - the one who is unlikely to ascend to the throne, so he goes off to found a school. I just don't think of wizards as being in royal families, although I concede it is possible. Usually royalty marries someone of royal blood to maintain the royal line, and if this prince is half-blood, then one of his fore-fathers/fore-mothers married someone who wasn't royal and was possibly magical - depending on which parent was magical and which was royal.......or vice versa. Good grief, now I think I've confundicated myself. LOL Does this make any sense at all????
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Miriam Huber - May 8, 2005 1:22 pm (#464 of 1448)
It has been said before, I just want to repeat the point that according to JKR´s own vocabulary, a "half-blood" is someone who is half muggle- and half wizard-born, but fully human, whereas people like Hagrid who is half-giant, are half-breeds. It gets quite clear at least in OoP whe Umbridge constantly is at war with half-breeds of all sort but is never mentioned to have problems with half-bloods or muggle-borns. So, in my opinion, Crookshanks or Hagrid are definitely ruled out.
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Veritaserum - May 8, 2005 1:38 pm (#465 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I don't really belong to the camp of GG=HBP supporters, but just to give an example that would answer Steve's question: what about Prince Henry the Navigator, who founded a school for explorers?
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Ms Amanda - May 8, 2005 1:43 pm (#466 of 1448)
I really don't have a clue who the Half-Blood Prince is. But, given ideas that he might be a historical person, such as Godric, may I suggest that we might get more information about the Bloody Baron in book 6?
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Finn BV - May 8, 2005 1:44 pm (#467 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Miriam - you raise a good point which I had thought about when reading Stephanie's theory. However, I think that it could be argued that a half-blood within a certain species could be half-cat, half-kneazle. Hagrid can be ruled out because he is human, and thus technically a half-breed. But Crookshanks, within cats, is half-blood in cat's point of view. Don't kneazles always take cat form? That would mean that if you're a cat, and you're something other than a cat, you'd have to be a kneazle as well. That same rule holds for wizards. If you're a wizard, but you're something other than a wizard, you'd have to be a Muggle (assuming you're all in one breed - and kneazles could fall under the breed of a cat).
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Steve Newton - May 8, 2005 4:13 pm (#468 of 1448)
Librarian
Veritaserum, I could just slap myself for forgetting Prince Henry the Navigator and those pesky explorers. 19 years of education shot.
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MickeyCee3948 - May 8, 2005 8:46 pm (#469 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I believe that the HBP will be the new DADA teacher. Every book in the series has introduced a new DADA teacher who has not been in any previous books. So if JKR follows her trend then the new DADA teacher will be an entirely new character.
I think that at this point in the series as JKR has stated she cannot continue to add new characters that will require major plot lines. She has to start closing down the series and answering questions.
I have read most of the posts on this thread and a great number of them are very thought provocating. I do not have any better of an idea of who the HBP is than anyone else. I just think that it will be a new character who we have not been introduced to and one who exists in the current wizard world. Therefore I am not of the Godric as HBP crowd or Hagrid, Draco, Crookshanks, current student crowds.
Of everyone who has been suggested, the only logical current character to me is Dumbledore. But since I can't see him as the next DADA teacher then that kinda ruins my guess.
I figure that we will all be just as much in the dark on July 15th as we are now. Unless JKR gives us all a great big, huge clue which brings it all into focus. LOL.
Mikie
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Veritaserum - May 9, 2005 2:18 pm (#470 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I just can't wait until July 16, when the few (if any) who have gotten it right will all be shouting "I knew it!" whereas the rest of us will either be able to say "Why didn't I think of that?!" or "NEVER saw that one coming!"
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So Sirius - May 9, 2005 2:55 pm (#471 of 1448)
There may be a good reason, different to what we think, to why Dumbledore hasn't allowed Snape to teach DADA. But, it may be time for this to be allowed. Snape might be the new DADA teacher and we may see a new Potions master.
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Aurora Gubbins - May 9, 2005 3:41 pm (#472 of 1448)
I don't think Snape will be DADA master before book 7, if at all. You never know, he might die saving MISS Granger, the insufferable know-all.
Aurora xx
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Finn BV - May 9, 2005 3:52 pm (#473 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
LOL - Aurora, I just read this thread, went to the "Potion Puzzle realtes to DADA teachers" thread, and came back and here you are posting the same thing as me! :-)
I slightly differ from you in saying that he'll save that girl who prides herself in not being able to restrain calling out of turn whilst looking on to page 394 (made-up, don't quote me on that), but, here it is: fbv807, "Potion Puzzle relates to DADA teachers" #99, 9 May 2005 3:49 pm
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 9, 2005 8:02 pm (#474 of 1448)
I like the idea of Snape saving Hermione! It will be fun looking back on this thread after July 16. LPO
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Ginerva Potter - May 10, 2005 3:51 am (#475 of 1448)
Regan - Hi. JKR didn't have Dean down for Neville's part. She said on her site she originally had Dean's story in the books, but sacrificed Dean's plot line for Neville's because Neville's story was more important to the central plot. I don't know how to do links, but it's located in the Edits section on the Extra Stuff page. Sorry, sometimes I'm an insufferable know-it-all, too.
Ginny
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 11:52 am (#476 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Many people seem to have a problem with the idea that Draco is the HBP because there are no clues in the books that lead us to believe the Malfoys are anything but the pure-blooded snobs that they seem to be. But we must remember what JKR has said about the HBP's story.
I clung to the title for a while, even though all trace of the 'Prince' storyline had disappeared. JKR's website
There is no trace of that storyline left in 'Chamber of Secrets'. Edinburgh Book Festival
JKR has made it clear, several times, that there are no remnants of the HBP storyline in book two. Any hint that the Malfoys aren't pure-bloods would be part of the HBP storyline. Therefore, the total lack of canonical evidence actually supports the theory.
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Steve Newton - May 10, 2005 12:16 pm (#477 of 1448)
Librarian
Somehow, I think that the lack of canonical evidence actually supports the lack of canonical evidence. In other words, to make the case you must have positive evidence. The lack of conflicting evidence, or just lack of evidence, does not support any case.
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Cwtchy Hedwig - May 10, 2005 1:55 pm (#478 of 1448)
Having read Chamber of Secrets for the 6th time, I am now convinced that Crookshanks is the Half Blood Prince. I noticed similarities between the descriptions of Crookshanks and the description given by JK Rowling of someone in the HBP:"(He)looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his BUSHY EYEBROWS, he had keen YELLOWISH EYES behind a pair of wire rimmed spectacles...". The mention of his yellow eyes was the biggest clue. I believe Crookshanks is an animagi (let's face it he is way to smart to be just a cat)and this would be a perfect description of his human from particularly the yellow eyes which JK Rowling used repeatedly when describing Crookshanks. She has also stated that something significant happens in Book 2 and that she was going to call book 2 Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince but it didn't fit the storyline when she finished it. Crookshanks was introduced in Book 2, coincidence?
What does everyone else think?
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Dumbledore - May 10, 2005 1:57 pm (#479 of 1448)
(Albus Percival Wulfric Brian)
Cwtchy Hedwig, Crookshanks was actually introduced in book 3. However, some people do speculate on the connection between the lion character and Crookshanks. Since JKR did say that the HBP plotline was taken out of Chamber of Secrets, it is possible that Crookshanks was supposed to be in there if he was the HBP, but was taken out. Good catch!
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Tomoé - May 10, 2005 2:01 pm (#480 of 1448)
Back in business
On JKR's website, she said Crookshanks is not an animagus:
Crookshanks is an Animagus
No, he's not, but he's not pure cat either. If you buy Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (all royalties to Comic Relief, which means you're helping some of the poorest children around the world) you might just be able to work out what Crookshanks really is.
But the cat/Kneazle could still be the HbP.
Edit: er ... shouldn't there be a hyphen between Half and Blood in the title of this thread?
Edit: I corrected a typo.
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Cwtchy Hedwig - May 10, 2005 2:06 pm (#481 of 1448)
Yes, your're correct Dumbledore. Crookshanks was introduced in book 3 (I've been on a harry-marathon, reading them all back to back and they've all merged into one!)
I'm looking for more clues now I have my theory. Anyone else noticed any evidence?
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Finn BV - May 10, 2005 2:34 pm (#482 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Cwtchy Hedwig - did you read Stephanie M.'s post? (Stephanie M., "HP6: the Half Blood Prince" #453, 7 May 2005 8:28 am) Are you agreeing with her theory, or had you not noticed it? She shares some evidence that she found on Crookshanks being the HBP. I agreed with her, and said that just one of the few arguments that could be made was that Crookshanks was not introduced in CoS, but rather in PoA. She addresses this by saying that JKR probably just cut Crookshanks to allow for further plot development in PoA.
I like your connection to the description JKR has given us. You say that he is "just way too smart to be a cat," but as Tomoé said, he is part kneazle, which is just what Mrs. Norris and Mr. Tibbles (Mrs. Figg's cat) are. Crookshanks' abilities are so intelligent that, you remember, he was the one who gave the passwords to Sirius in PoA.
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 2:45 pm (#483 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
The lack of conflicting evidence, or just lack of evidence, does not support any case.
Steve, throughout the first five books, there is lots of conflicting evidence to the theory that the Malfoys are half-bloods, but I maintain that the lack of evidence that they are half-bloods does, in fact, support the the theory that Draco is the HBP.
My theory is that the HBP storyline will be a series of discoveries and events that ultimately lead to revelation that the Malfoys are-half-bloods. All hints and clues that point to the Malfoys being half-bloods would be part of the HBP storyline, and JKR has specified that the this storyline will be told in book six. So, if there was any canonical evidence in the first five books for the Malfoys being half-bloods, my theory that Draco is the HBP would be invalid. Since there is no evidence, Draco is still a valid candidate for HBP.
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The giant squid - May 10, 2005 5:33 pm (#484 of 1448)
I have a new theory: Fang is the HBP.
What? You don't think so? Next you'll be saying Dumbledore's not the giant squid. Preposterous!
--Mike
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Choices - May 10, 2005 5:35 pm (#485 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Cwtchy - "he had keen YELLOWISH EYES behind a pair of wire rimmed spectacles...".
Please tell me I did not miss the clue in the book about Crookshanks wearing wire-rimmed spectacles? I thought I read the book very carefully, but I must have missed that part. ;-)
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Finn BV - May 10, 2005 6:20 pm (#486 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Choices, perhaps when Crookshanks is at work hard he dons a lovely pair of glasses…
I picture him, when he's really being a kneazle and not just a cat, sitting at a desk doing work, and I guess he doesn't have perfect vision…
Actually, I imagine this description to be that of the new DADA teacher, already standing in the room while HRH and the class come in. He'll be noticed by Harry, and this is his description.
Wait… I've got it… put everything together and what do you get? CROOKSHANKS, THE HBP, IS THE NEW DADA TEACHER! AND, ADDING RECENT DEVELOPMENTS, DUMBLEDORE TAKES ON TWO ANIMAGI FORMS: GIANT SQUID AND DOG, THE LATTER OF WHICH IS MORE COMMONLY KNOWN BY THE WORD "FANG"! Brilliant!
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 6:35 pm (#487 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
According to the Lexicon, Fang is a Great Dane. Hamlet is also a Dane, and a Prince. You may be on to something, GS.
My current list, starting with the most likely to be the HBP, is Draco, Lucius, Godric, New Character, Snape, Dumbledore, Crookshanks, Fudge, Fang and Dobby.
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Choices - May 10, 2005 7:05 pm (#488 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Actually, according to canon, Fang is a boarhound.
"Hang on," he said. "Back, Fang."
He let them in, struggling to keep a hold on the collar of an enormous black boarhound.
page 174 of SS, chapter 8
I think this breed can also be called a Neopolitan Mastiff, but in the book he is called a boarhound. I can't remember who clued me in to that, but some kind soul did.
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GryffEndora - May 10, 2005 7:16 pm (#489 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The dog that plays Fang in the movies is indeed a Neapolitan Mastiff. However, I have found boarhound described as both a mastiff and a Great Dane. Basically it is a dog that was used to hunt wild boar. Unfortunately this does not narrow down our options as to what specific breed of dog Fang is.
I am Used Vlad, I have to say that the Great Dane, Hamlet Dane Prince connection to Fang being the HBP had me laughing out loud. What a great theory!
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I Am Used Vlad - May 10, 2005 7:31 pm (#490 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Thanks, GryfEndora. Now if I could just get people to stop laughing at my serious theories.
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frogface - May 11, 2005 2:44 am (#491 of 1448)
Vlad I'm not entirely sure I understand your logic. You're saying that because JKR said that she took all the HbP stuff out of book 2, it means that the fact that the Malfoy's are said to be pure blood in book 2 doesn't mean anything? Right...
So I guess the real reason Hagrid was arrested hasn't come to light yet, aragog was infact just a scary looking tree and Harry and Ron weren't looking properly, Ginny and Harry both just bumped their heads and imagined everything in the CoS, Lockhart is actually really brave but misunderstood, and Fred is George but covered it up by taking the polyjuice potion.
Of course now I also see that Draco is on the list for most likely candidates to be HbP. I won't bother reading book 2 from now on, it clearly has no bearing in the series whatsoever.
EDIT: Reading this back I realised it sounded quite nasty. I just want to say that thats not my intention. I'm just unable to take your theory seriously because of the way you've argued it so far. If you can find me some plausable evidence to suggest Draco or Lucius isn't pure-blood then I'll back you up all the way.
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Ms Amanda - May 11, 2005 4:51 am (#492 of 1448)
Vlad, I'd like to take a respectful stab at validating your logic. JKR said that she removed all references to the HBP storyline from CoS when she decided that there was information she was revealing too soon. My understanding is that you are taking that to mean she has given the reader no clue about who the HBP is. Ever. In the whole series. Because that would have given us information too early in the series.
It is also, I'm deducing, your point that it would work well in CoS to reveal that Draco (and thus Lucius) are not purebloods at all.
And you are saying, as I read your posts, that JKR gave us information to lead us AWAY from thinking that Draco is a half-blood.
Thus, when you are saying that the lack of canonical evidence supports your theory, you are saying that your theory is that JKR has removed all clues as to who the HBP is. From there your theory grows to say that we must look at someone who we would not suspect. The one person we would not expect to be a half-blood is Draco Malfoy because there is so much apparent canonical evidence pointing to him being pure blood. Therefore, Draco in your theory fits well with being the HBP.
OK, now I am going to take you very, very seriously. I will start by assuming that your premises are true. JKR has given no clues as to who the HBP is and she has led us away from the identity. Also, I will assume for the moment Draco is half-blood even though the canon contains no evidence.
The weakness I find is that I ought to take the jump and say that Draco is the HBP even if he is half-blood. Rather, I would say, under your ideas, it would make sense to look at all pure blood wizards. Also, as JKR has left us, according to your statements, with a considerable lack of clues as to who this person might be, it would be plausible for us to be shocked that someone was actually royalty. So we could throw in those we know to be half-bloods.
I'm looking for an explanation of how it would have worked for Draco to be a half-blood in CoS. It would strengthen support in my mind to have a convincing explanation of how it would add to the storyline for the Malfoys to be less than pureblood now or how it would have worked for HRH to have suspected Draco of being the Heir of Slytherin and of being the Half-Blood Prince in CoS.
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Chemyst - May 11, 2005 4:55 am (#493 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Has anyone suggested the HBP is Trevor? Perhaps he is just waiting to be kissed.
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Finn BV - May 11, 2005 6:07 am (#494 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Vlad, I don't believe I've done so, so thank you for joining the Draco=HBP theorizers! Your evidence, or the lack thereof, is very helpful
That said, let me eliminate a new character as the HBP. Why would JKR have the choice to introduce a character either in Book 2 or Book 6? An option of four years doesn't seem that reasonable - maybe if it were consecutive books I would understand that, but four years seems like a lot of time. That is why it has to be somebody who we already know.
This is slightly irrelevant to my previous paragraph and a bit contradictory against Vlad, but… when i think of CoS, the two new, just introduced to us characters I think of are: Tom Riddle, and Lucius Malfoy. The central plot of the books reveals to us about most of Voldie's background, but completely lacks Malfoy's background. Thus JKR could have revealed the Malfoys in the same book as revealing Voldie, but she decided to wait till Book 6. That is my understanding and theory of why either Lucius or Draco, more likely Draco to end his "mudblood" lines, are half-blood.
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Ainsley Black - May 11, 2005 6:41 am (#495 of 1448)
Edited by S.E. Jones May 11, 2005 9:08 am
can i just steer the conversation to the new cover art for the delux edition?
what does everyone think? Looks to me like they are in the dark forest and harry looks like he's in his pyjamas!!!?
->Please use proper capitalization in your posts for those of us who are either young or do not speak English as a first language. Thanks!<- SE Jones
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KWeldon - May 11, 2005 6:59 am (#496 of 1448)
My first thought, since there is a fence there as if there is a dwelling that they are looking at (a residence?), is that Dumbledore takes Harry to Spinners End, which is someone's home, or his parents' former home in Godric's Hollow. Since the fence is broken, perhaps the rest of the area is in disarray, and it is the former home of the Potters.
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Ponine - May 11, 2005 7:13 am (#497 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I have not read all posts, so forgive me if I am reiterating needlessly.... But, how about Firenze or another centaur? could he be the half-blood prince, somehow? I am aware of what was stated concerning half-breed and half-blood in wizarding terms, but that would not prevent Firenze or any other half-centaur from being referred to as half-(centaur)-blood in their communications...? What do you think? (just pelt me, that is ok)
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Suspero - May 11, 2005 7:24 am (#498 of 1448)
Professor
KWeldon -- I'm glad you said that about "Spinner's End", it does make me wonder if that's a place... but I'm also glad that someone didn't immediately jump in suggesting that Aragog is the HBP and they've gone to enlist his aid (oops, I didn't really suggest that!).
For my "2 cents" I'd just like to reiterate that I still don't think the identity of the HBP and the plotline of the novel revolves around "who" but around the very topic of even being conscious and obsessed with bloodlines in the first place -- the very moniker "half-blood prince", like the perjorative "mudblood" seems to me acrimonious and divisive and at the roots of the whole conflict in the first place.
And even though JKR removed the HBP from the title of CoS and apparently excised a fair bit of story I still think that whatever the denouement is it's going to be something that sorts well with CoS and with clues in that book.
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KWeldon - May 11, 2005 8:01 am (#499 of 1448)
I agree, Suspero. I think there will be a mention in passing that Godric Gryffindor was in his time referred (maybe even by Slytherin himself) as the Half-Blood Prince, and the story is really about the issues of blood and the fight against discrimination, that is, what the war is really about.
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Steve Newton - May 11, 2005 8:43 am (#500 of 1448)
Librarian
I don't really want to suggest Crookshanks as the HBP but...JKR has said that Crookshanks is not an animagus. This pretty much rules him out. However, one of the Chocolate Frog cards is of Circe who was noted for transforming men into animals.
I don't think that it is Crookshanks but you never know.
I do think that it will be someone that we have already met.
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Gina R Snape - May 11, 2005 8:49 am (#501 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
About the new cover... I did not think those branches in front were a fence, though I could see how some might think that. There are other horizontal root branches in the background.
I also don't think Harry is in his pyjamas. It looks to me like he's wearing an open robe with a shirt and undershirt.
Regardless of whether it is the middle of the night or not, something significant will clearly happen regarding the forest. Perhaps DD is taking Harry to see where his parents are buried. Or perhaps there is a community of creatures in the forest--centaurs?--they wish to consult. Maybe they learn something from Grawp (shudder) or Aragog. One thing though, they don't look like they are fleeing, they look to be purposefully walking and looking.
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GryffEndora - May 11, 2005 8:57 am (#502 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Steve Newton, maybe Trevor is really Grindelwald. If Ron's pet could be Wormtail why not? Perhaps Trevor/Grindelwald is always trying to escape so he can get out and do harm to Dumbledore but Neville is to wily to let him get very far.
As for the new artwork I can see where the fence and nightgown images are but I agree with Gina that those could simply be artistic license. But the more I look at it the more it looks like a fence. Perhaps some magical creature has a kind of rustically cordoned off home in the Dark Forest and DD and Harry are coming to this homestead to find out information. They definately look as though they are purposefully seeking out something. And they don't seem frightened, cautious yes, but not afraid.
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Steve Newton - May 11, 2005 9:06 am (#503 of 1448)
Librarian
Grindelwald keeps coming up. More with us than in the books, actually. It occurs to me that we know that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945. Being a wizard he was a man. Anything else?
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S.E. Jones - May 11, 2005 9:14 am (#504 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Unless you are honestly suggesting Grindelwald as the HBP, I think any further discussion about him (and whether he's truly Trevor) belong on a different thread. We do seem to be going a little overboard with our discussion lately. Perhaps we should try to focus on more likely possibilities or things we know to be true of the coming book....
As to the coverart, I have to wonder if the forest is perhaps in the pensieve of the main US cover. Or, perhaps the Dark Forest itself. We've heard that there may be a graveyard around Hogwarts that Harry has apparently missed, so maybe it's hidden just beyond the trees somewhere..?
I do like the suggestion that they may be nearing Spinners End in Godric's Hollow and seeing the Potters' former home. JKR did write the scene in PS for Columbus, and there does seem to be a lot of woods around the house....
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GryffEndora - May 11, 2005 9:34 am (#505 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
S.E. Jones, I'm sorry for taking the thread off track.
I like your ideas about the cover art. I hadn't thought that they could be inside the pensive but it does make sense that the two images of the covers should be related some way. We do know that the graveyard will be seen as well. And you are right, Godric's Hollow did seem to be surrounded by trees, weather a forest or just a lot of landscaping I'm not sure. These are all ideas worth considering.
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T Brightwater - May 11, 2005 10:06 am (#506 of 1448)
Harry's been in the Forbidden Forest, or at least inside the edges, in every book, hasn't he? Here's a survey of what he's learned or done (not comprehensive, please add to or correct):
PS/SS: Goes with Hagrid as part of a detention. Meets centaurs, including Firenze. Firenze is established as a renegade, more willing to work with humans than the rest of his kind. Miscellaneous info: Unicorn blood can keep a person alive, but at the cost of living a cursed life. Firenze rescues Harry from Quirrelmort.
CS: Harry and Ron follow the spiders and meet Aragog, who incidentally gives them an important clue about where the Chamber is. They meet the Weasley's old car, which rescues them from the spiders.
PoA: Isn't the hippogriff paddock just inside or right next to the Forest? I think Harry and Hermione also hide in the Forest while waiting to rescue Sirius.
GoF: Harry and Krum are walking just inside the Forest when they find Mr. Crouch.
OotP: Hagrid's lesson on thestrals takes place in the Forest. Hagrid takes Harry and Hermione deep in the Forest to meet Grawp, and they learn that the Centaurs are furious with wizards in general and Hagrid in particular. Hermione leads Harry and Umbridge into the Forest. Umbridge is carried off by the Centaurs; H&H are rescued from the Centaurs by Grawp; Ron, Ginny, Luna, and Neville meet H&H and they all take thestrals to the MoM, as Harry believes he needs to rescue Sirius.
I think the scene on the deluxe edition cover is in the Forest, which is obviously a significant place for Harry. The theme of rescue also seems to be strongly connected to the Forest.
Interesting that two of the covers show Harry and DD together, so it looks like they'll patch things up.
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Ginerva Potter - May 11, 2005 11:36 am (#507 of 1448)
I really like the idea that Harry and Dumbledore are in the Pensieve. On the Deluxe cover, neither Harry or Dumbledore have their wands out. I think this means they are positive they are not in danger.
I also think that they could be visiting James and Lily's residence before they went into hiding. It seems to me that is where all their belongings could possibly be. JM2K
Ginny
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Suspero - May 11, 2005 11:49 am (#508 of 1448)
Professor
I feel like such a dummy sometimes... When did we find out that "Spinner's End" is where the Potter home was? Boy, I like the sound of that... By the way, I think Harry is in his robes, not pyjamas, but the art is pretty ambiguous -- my guess is based on that UK cover with the flames.
If the Deluxe Edition cover follows the logic of other covers then what we are seeing is an event late in the book, not chapter 2.
More and more I like the idea that Draco Malfoy is "the Half-Blood Prince", but I still have part of me thinking it's Gryffindor (whose story we've never heard) and another part of me leans toward Snape...
Oh, for a copy of "Hogwarts: A History"!
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S.E. Jones - May 11, 2005 12:06 pm (#509 of 1448)
Let it snow!
We haven't found out that Spinners End is where the Potters lived, it is just a theory....
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Liz Mann - May 11, 2005 12:11 pm (#510 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
From looking at the book covers it looks like Harry spends quite a bit of significant time with Dumbledore in this book. Maybe he's taking extra lessons in magic in order to fight Voldemort.
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I Am Used Vlad - May 11, 2005 12:39 pm (#511 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
frogface, I don't understand why a plot twist in which we find out the Malfoys are half-bloods would mean that everything we learned in CoS is false.
The weakness I find is that I ought to take the jump and say that Draco is the HBP even if he is half-blood. Rather, I would say, under your ideas, it would make sense to look at all pure blood wizards. Also, as JKR has left us, according to your statements, with a considerable lack of clues as to who this person might be, it would be plausible for us to be shocked that someone was actually royalty. So we could throw in those we know to be half-bloods.
I'm looking for an explanation of how it would have worked for Draco to be a half-blood in CoS. It would strengthen support in my mind to have a convincing explanation of how it would add to the storyline for the Malfoys to be less than pureblood now or how it would have worked for HRH to have suspected Draco of being the Heir of Slytherin and of being the Half-Blood Prince in CoS. Ms Amanda
You're correct that it could be a real Prince, and I agree that all full-bloods must be considered using my reasoning. I am not trying to prove that Draco is the HBP, nor prove that others aren't. I just think that Draco makes the most sense.
As for CoS, when the trio suspected Draco of being the Heir, JKR could have had only Harry and Ron take the Polyjuice Potion, and Hermione could have done what she does best; namely, go to the library to research the Malfoys' history. She could have discovered something odd about the Malfoys, and the trio could have continued to investigate until they discovered proof that the Malfoys are half-bloods. Considering the behavior of both Draco a Lucius in CoS, I think it would have been rather fitting to have them disgraced at the end.
As for how it would fit into the story now, most people think that something is going to happen to cause some Slytherins to come over to Harry's side, and the discovery that Draco is half-blooded would not only cause a power shift in Slytherin, but maybe even cause some of the students to reexamine their values.
fbv 807, I've been a Draco=HBP supporter since the day JKR told us the title. I'll warn you now, don't expect a huge number of converts.
And you're theory doesn't contradict me. You think JKR originally intended to give background information about the Malfoys in CoS but decided to move it to book 6. That is exactly what I think, too.
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Grindylow - May 11, 2005 3:19 pm (#512 of 1448)
Can someone post a link to the deluxe edition's cover art?
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Finn BV - May 11, 2005 3:25 pm (#513 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
WOW! Seventeen posts of activity in the 9 hours since I posted!
Vlad, glad we're on the same page and supporters of this noble (or half-noble cause).
To address some issues that have recently come up: I agree that Grindlewald should not be further discussed here, unless people think he is the HBP… Steve said that Grindlewald is a dark wizard, DD is a good wizard, and DD defeated him. Just something to add to DD's list of accomplishments, and something JKR could write about him on his Chocolate Frog card. :-)
I don't think that the new cover is in the Dark Forest. And I will have to disagree that the DF hasn't been a significant place in all the books. Making the stretch in PoA and OoP are quite large, and it's only briefly mentioned when Harry and Hermione meet Crouch, no other time… I tend to agree more with the Godric's Hollow people than the Dark Forest people…
Question for a Host (I will post this also in the 'Questions for the Hosts' thread, appropriately, but it pertains to this thread): The thread name should first of all have a hyphen in between "Half" and "Blood," and also, does this apply solely to who we think the HBP is, or about all thoughts on the book as a whole? Thanks a lot –
-fbv807-
EDIT: Gryffendora, the link is here, at Scholastic. I got it from the Leaky Cauldron.
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Ponine - May 11, 2005 3:29 pm (#514 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Thanks for the link, fbv! for the record - that would tie nicely in my my theory of the half-blood prince being a centaur.... *hem hem*....
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So Sirius - May 11, 2005 3:41 pm (#515 of 1448)
To me, it looks like Harry is wearing something you'd sleep in. As this picture is at night, possibly in a forest or outside of the home in Godrics Hollow being destroyed, wherever it is, it looks like Harry woke up from seeing something in dream, got Dumbledore and maybe had a look in the pensive or if it's not a memory, but a reality, they went to save someone because of something Harry saw in a dream.
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Ponine - May 11, 2005 3:44 pm (#516 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Could they be visiting Grawp?(or making peace with the centaurs?) Is it a dream? Or are they together visiting a pensieve memory of DD?
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Finn BV - May 11, 2005 5:26 pm (#517 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Ponine - I agree that Firenze will make one last fairly major storyline before being eliminated - unless DD convinces the centaurs to join the WW? Is that we're they're going on the cover? I don't know if that sounds important enough to make the cover?
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Liz Mann - May 11, 2005 5:31 pm (#518 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
They certainly seem to be watching something, but they're not exactly well-hidden so they can't be spying. Whatever they're looking at, it's got to either be something that can't see them back (i.e. it's not alive) or it's something that they want to see them. It could be the centaurs. They have to call a truce with them sometime afterall. How is Hagrid going to do his gamekeeping duties in there otherwise?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 11, 2005 5:37 pm (#519 of 1448)
Seeing Dumbledore on so many covers has me concerned and happy. Concerned that he will not make it through the book. Happy because Harry will have an opportunity to learn more from Dumbledore. It also leads me in the direction that Dumbledore is the Half-Blood Prince, or may another red herring... LPO
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Mrs. Sirius - May 11, 2005 5:44 pm (#520 of 1448)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
The new art worked released today for HBP show Harry and Dumbledore in a "forested glen, where we find Harry Potter and Dumbledore peering through dense branches,". So Harry and Dumbledore are somewhere that is not (probably) in the school. Is it the Dark Forest or Godric's Hallow? Has Dumbledore finally taken Harry to that place? If he has, why is it Dumbledore taking him?
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Choices - May 11, 2005 6:57 pm (#521 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Maybe Dumbledore has taken Harry to the location of the graveyard on the Hogwart's grounds?
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Miriam Huber - May 12, 2005 3:57 am (#522 of 1448)
Like you, Ponine, I was thinking of Grawp. He HAS to play a major role in HBP, if not, JKR would have left the story of him out of OoP. She said she couldn´t help the book being as long as it has become because she had to give us clues. Said the other way round: If it had been possible, she would have edited out something to shorten it. Grawp is not a major part of the plot in OoP -- which means, he will be in HBP. (AND she hinted in some interview at Grawp being on the one hand the stupidest thing Hagrid has done so far, on the other hand, he will get more controllable)
But, if Dumbledore and Harry are looking for or at Grawp: WHERE IS HAGRID?
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T Brightwater - May 12, 2005 5:42 am (#523 of 1448)
I like the idea of Harry and DD going to talk to the Centaurs. DD obviously has some influence with them, and Harry might be going to speak for Firenze.
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Chemyst - May 12, 2005 6:17 am (#524 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
For what its worth, like KWeldon, I thought Harry & DD were standing behind a fence too. Or more specifically, a gate for a fence which had broken and now has vines growing over it– somplace that has not been used or visited frequently in the last fifteen years.
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KWeldon - May 12, 2005 6:35 am (#525 of 1448)
It struck me as being a fence because it looks nothing like the obvious vine next to it.
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Tomoé - May 12, 2005 6:53 am (#526 of 1448)
Back in business
I wasn't sure if it was fence or not when I saw the amazon.com's picture, but after I saw the TLC's one, I'm sure it's a broken fence.
Here's the high resolution picture.
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Snuffles - May 12, 2005 7:03 am (#527 of 1448)
Olivia
Thanks for the link Tomoe.
It looks like a broken fence to me too.
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Suspero - May 12, 2005 8:07 am (#528 of 1448)
Professor
Thanks for the link Tomoe! Now that I've really studied the larger cover picture I think they are in a place we haven't seen yet, not the Dark Forest, and I doubt that it's on the Hogwarts grounds. It is definitely an old wooden fence, but not for a cemetery. We may have wooden fences around cemeteries in America, but I've never seen such in England -- and even in America wrought iron and stone are more common for Colonial-era cemeteries. I'm convinced that Harry is in his school robes -- the collar of his shirt, the untucked tail of it, and the neck of an undershirt are what I see.
Is Dumbledore leading Harry through a remembered place, as in the Pensieve? Or through a real physical space as in a visit to Godric's Hollow or Spinner's End?
I was really struck again by the associations of Godric Gryffindor, the Death Eaters, Voldemort, etc., when realizing that the most obvious outbreak of prejudice and bigotry takes place at Godric's Hollow. I'm still thinking that whoever the HBP is it is key to this bloodline strife.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 12, 2005 8:35 am (#529 of 1448)
Hmm.More coverart with Harry & Dumbledore.I do believe Dumbledore will be our Half-Blood Prince.If not,I still like the evidence that Dumbledore will be spending more time with Harry since Harry was obviously hurt by his ignoring him in OoP.
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Liz Mann - May 12, 2005 9:48 am (#530 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Looking at it closer, I think it might be a fence too. It would be quite odd for branches to grow straight across like that so low to the ground. In which case, unless there is a property of some kind in the Forbidden Forest, it must be somewhere else. They do seem to be looking at something, though. Whether it's a person or a building or a creature we won't know until the book comes out.
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Grindylow - May 12, 2005 10:01 am (#531 of 1448)
Could it be that they are going to "The Riddle House"? It seems to me the house was run down after Voldy returned with Nagini. Maybe Harry and Dumbledore are going there to search the house for information or clues as to where he is and what his next move is....
As I type this, it sounds a little CRAZY!
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Betelgeuse Black - May 12, 2005 10:35 am (#532 of 1448)
It's not a fence! It's a dead, maimed acromantula's legs!
Just kidding, Betelgeuse
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KWeldon - May 12, 2005 10:58 am (#533 of 1448)
Looking at the picture, it just strikes me that Mary GrandPre has what I envision Dumbledore to look like down to a tee. Nothing like the hippie tied-up beard DD of the movies.
On topic, my second guess behind Gryffindor as HBP is Dumbledore, although it seems fairly obvious, unless JKR names this book after him because he dies in it. Lovely thought, eh!
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Liz Mann - May 12, 2005 11:59 am (#534 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I can't see her killing Dumbledore off in this book. If he is going to die (and I think he is at some point) surely it will be in book seven. Can you imagine a whole book with no Dumbledore? Hogwarts would be in chaos for the whole of book seven. And besides, Dumbledore is the most powerful wizard in the world, and Harry seems to be well on the way to becoming that too (especially if he beats Voldemort through pure skill and magical power, in which case he will have beaten the second most powerful wizard in the world - thereby taking over that position) and I love the idea of Harry reaching his full potential, then Dumbledore dying, and Harry taking over his place as the most powerful wizard in the world.
Although, as you say, Dumbledore seems to be very prominant in this book, and we all know what becoming more prominant meant for Sirius in OotP. But maybe she's going to have an even longer build up for Dumbledore's death than just the one book. After all he's an even more major character than Sirius or Cedric.
I think most likely he's prominant in this book because he has to teach Harry extra DADA stuff for the final fight against Voldie. And surely he can't do that in just the one year?
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Miriam Huber - May 12, 2005 12:52 pm (#535 of 1448)
You are all right about the fence, I think. After two of the three book covers, this is the third picture concerning HBP that shows Dumbledore and Harry. I would really like to see the two of them in closer connetcion -- more master (not so much teacher)-and-pupil (or do you say "disciple"?)-like.
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frogface - May 12, 2005 1:26 pm (#536 of 1448)
Yes I deffinatly see a closer relationship could develop because of these book covers. I think DD realises that Harry needs someone to look up too, and he doesn't have that right now with sirius gone. I hope Lupin will also be able to get closer to Harry in this book to.
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Aurora Gubbins - May 12, 2005 3:10 pm (#537 of 1448)
Jumping back several posts (been busy...) to theories about Fang and the confusion arising about what kind of dog he is, here's a hint - anyone wanting to know what a Great Dane looks like take a look at Scooby Doo as he is one.
Just a thought...
Aurora xx
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Liz Mann - May 12, 2005 3:58 pm (#538 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Except that Fang is black.
Do you know, I'm in England and I didn't know that a boarhound is another name for a Great Dane. I've never heard them called that before and neither had mum. I just did an image search for 'black boarhound' and it came up with nothing.
The film makers definately got the wrong breed.
Sigh. Harry definately seems to be getting closer to Dumbledore, and probably will to Remus too, which is a shame on both counts because both are characters that I think will die and Harry will be hurt yet again. In fact I've got a horrible feeling that a lot of the people he cares about will die.
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S.E. Jones - May 12, 2005 4:15 pm (#539 of 1448)
Let it snow!
I thought 'boarhound' was used for both Great Danes and Mastiffs. Maybe they asked JKR for clarity.
I can definately see the fence in the Hi-Res pic. I still don't think that rules out the Forbidden Forest, though. However, I am becoming more inclined to believe it is either somewhere from a pensieve memory (maybe one they're looking at on the other US cover?), the wooded area around Godric's Hollow, or both.
EDIT: Just to clarify for those wondering about Fang: Great Danes are also known as "German Mastiffs". There is evidence that suggests that there were similar dogs as the Great Dane in ancient Greek and Roman times. Originally developed from the boarhound they were used to hunt boar in the Middle Ages. The Germans are given credit to have developed the breed as it is known today. Some suggest they were crossed with the ancient Mastiff and Irish Wolfhound.
So, it seems that the term 'boarhound' refers to any dog bred to hunt boar, especially Mastiffs, which include the Great Danes, which became popular in the Middle Ages.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 12, 2005 5:23 pm (#540 of 1448)
The picture looks like Harry and Dumbledore are looking for something or looking out for something. Their eyes are both looking sideways in the same direction. Its almost like they are sneaking into a place they should not be. The picture has a here and now feeling. I don't think it is a Pensive. Harry is sure growing. He is almost as tall as Dumbledore! LPO
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Veritaserum - May 12, 2005 5:49 pm (#541 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Here are my thoughts on the new cover: I agree that Harry looks like he's in pajamas, or at least more relaxed clothes than a school uniform would seem to be. Perhaps he's going old-school-just-wearing-long-tunics and such on us. Also, I agree that it is a fence. On further pondering, I don't think this is the Forbidden Forest. It doesn't look dark or forbidding to me. On the contrary, I think it looks kind of mystical and peaceful, like old-school faerie-land or something. However, I do think it is a forest, not just somebody's overgrown front yard. I also think it looks like Dumbledore is leading Harry somewhere, to show him something he should see.
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Stringer - May 12, 2005 7:45 pm (#542 of 1448)
The fence on the cover looks more like a residential, or field type fence. If I were building a fence in the forbidden forest, it would look more substantial. With all the creatures in the forest, if your going to build a fence to keep something in or out it would need to be solid. JM2K
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Grindylow - May 13, 2005 8:01 am (#543 of 1448)
In POA, were the hippogriffs not kept in a fenced in area of the forbidden forest? I may be thinking of the movie adaptation, but it seemed like within the forest, there was a "fenced" in area where Hagrid kept Buckbeak and his fellow hippogriffs. Just a thought.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 13, 2005 8:07 am (#544 of 1448)
Jo has updated her site and has said that as Sirius stated in OoP there are no pure blood families.The families who claim to be pure blood simply just cross undesirables off their family tree. So..I guess Draco has as good of chance as any of being the HBP.
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Miriam Huber - May 13, 2005 8:07 am (#545 of 1448)
I find it rather interesting that they do not have their wands out. IF Grand Pré has them left-handed again, Harry could clutch his wand in his pocket, but Dumbledore couldn´t (his left hand ist out). But I don´t think so, I looks rather that they are looking at something/-body very interesting but are in no danger.
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Suspero - May 13, 2005 11:38 am (#546 of 1448)
Professor
Madame Pomfrey -- where did you find that update on JKR's site?
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GryffEndora - May 13, 2005 11:46 am (#547 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Suspero - the info is in the FAQ along with other wonderful tid-bits. Also check out rumors and the FSA.
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Liz Mann - May 13, 2005 12:49 pm (#548 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Jo has updated her site and has said that as Sirius stated in OoP there are no pure blood families.The families who claim to be pure blood simply just cross undesirables off their family tree. So..I guess Draco has as good of chance as any of being the HBP.
At this rate it could be anyone!
Did anyone hear about Emerson from Mugglenet and Melissa from The Leaky Cauldron getting to interview J.K. about this book just after it comes out (apparently it's probably going to be the only interview she's going to do)? This is fantastic! Do you know why? Because we know Emerson and Melissa aren't going to ask all those same questions that some people keep asking over and over and over that we all know the answers to already. These are going to be worthwhile questions, hopefully with worthwhile answers. Melissa's going mad over at TLC!
(Note to self: Make sure own fansite becomes really popular before book seven comes out. Maybe she'll pick me next. )
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Suspero - May 13, 2005 4:27 pm (#549 of 1448)
Professor
Thank you, GryffEndora! I never ran across the little paper clips before.
Does pique the curiosity, wot? Wonder what she means when she says, "this subject is touched upon"?
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Chemyst - May 13, 2005 5:18 pm (#550 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Miriam Huber, in answer to your pupil/disciple question #535, in the US, we'd most likely use student, although both pupil and disciple would make sense. "Disciple" usually has a philosophy or religion connotation, but it also applies to a student who follows one strong leader, and DD would certainly qualify as the greatest wizard. "Pupil" also means student, usually young students in a classroom. But it can also refer to somebody who is taught by or is influenced by the teachings of a particular person. A trainee is someone who is learning a skill or task.
If you don't want to use "teacher" for DD, a mentor is an experienced person who gives support and advice. Master has a favorable connotation when used to describe a high degree of skill in music, martial arts, and golf, but it can also be considered offensive when used opposite slave or as a cult leader.
As to the cover art on the deluxe edition, it seems as if DD is guiding Harry to some place that was important in his history, so I would probably choose to label it a "mentoring relationship."
(By the way, what is your native language? I searched the "Tell About Yourself" thread but there were no matches.)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
About the new cover... I did not think those branches in front were a fence, though I could see how some might think that. There are other horizontal root branches in the background.
I also don't think Harry is in his pyjamas. It looks to me like he's wearing an open robe with a shirt and undershirt.
Regardless of whether it is the middle of the night or not, something significant will clearly happen regarding the forest. Perhaps DD is taking Harry to see where his parents are buried. Or perhaps there is a community of creatures in the forest--centaurs?--they wish to consult. Maybe they learn something from Grawp (shudder) or Aragog. One thing though, they don't look like they are fleeing, they look to be purposefully walking and looking.
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GryffEndora - May 11, 2005 8:57 am (#502 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Steve Newton, maybe Trevor is really Grindelwald. If Ron's pet could be Wormtail why not? Perhaps Trevor/Grindelwald is always trying to escape so he can get out and do harm to Dumbledore but Neville is to wily to let him get very far.
As for the new artwork I can see where the fence and nightgown images are but I agree with Gina that those could simply be artistic license. But the more I look at it the more it looks like a fence. Perhaps some magical creature has a kind of rustically cordoned off home in the Dark Forest and DD and Harry are coming to this homestead to find out information. They definately look as though they are purposefully seeking out something. And they don't seem frightened, cautious yes, but not afraid.
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Steve Newton - May 11, 2005 9:06 am (#503 of 1448)
Librarian
Grindelwald keeps coming up. More with us than in the books, actually. It occurs to me that we know that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945. Being a wizard he was a man. Anything else?
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S.E. Jones - May 11, 2005 9:14 am (#504 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Unless you are honestly suggesting Grindelwald as the HBP, I think any further discussion about him (and whether he's truly Trevor) belong on a different thread. We do seem to be going a little overboard with our discussion lately. Perhaps we should try to focus on more likely possibilities or things we know to be true of the coming book....
As to the coverart, I have to wonder if the forest is perhaps in the pensieve of the main US cover. Or, perhaps the Dark Forest itself. We've heard that there may be a graveyard around Hogwarts that Harry has apparently missed, so maybe it's hidden just beyond the trees somewhere..?
I do like the suggestion that they may be nearing Spinners End in Godric's Hollow and seeing the Potters' former home. JKR did write the scene in PS for Columbus, and there does seem to be a lot of woods around the house....
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GryffEndora - May 11, 2005 9:34 am (#505 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
S.E. Jones, I'm sorry for taking the thread off track.
I like your ideas about the cover art. I hadn't thought that they could be inside the pensive but it does make sense that the two images of the covers should be related some way. We do know that the graveyard will be seen as well. And you are right, Godric's Hollow did seem to be surrounded by trees, weather a forest or just a lot of landscaping I'm not sure. These are all ideas worth considering.
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T Brightwater - May 11, 2005 10:06 am (#506 of 1448)
Harry's been in the Forbidden Forest, or at least inside the edges, in every book, hasn't he? Here's a survey of what he's learned or done (not comprehensive, please add to or correct):
PS/SS: Goes with Hagrid as part of a detention. Meets centaurs, including Firenze. Firenze is established as a renegade, more willing to work with humans than the rest of his kind. Miscellaneous info: Unicorn blood can keep a person alive, but at the cost of living a cursed life. Firenze rescues Harry from Quirrelmort.
CS: Harry and Ron follow the spiders and meet Aragog, who incidentally gives them an important clue about where the Chamber is. They meet the Weasley's old car, which rescues them from the spiders.
PoA: Isn't the hippogriff paddock just inside or right next to the Forest? I think Harry and Hermione also hide in the Forest while waiting to rescue Sirius.
GoF: Harry and Krum are walking just inside the Forest when they find Mr. Crouch.
OotP: Hagrid's lesson on thestrals takes place in the Forest. Hagrid takes Harry and Hermione deep in the Forest to meet Grawp, and they learn that the Centaurs are furious with wizards in general and Hagrid in particular. Hermione leads Harry and Umbridge into the Forest. Umbridge is carried off by the Centaurs; H&H are rescued from the Centaurs by Grawp; Ron, Ginny, Luna, and Neville meet H&H and they all take thestrals to the MoM, as Harry believes he needs to rescue Sirius.
I think the scene on the deluxe edition cover is in the Forest, which is obviously a significant place for Harry. The theme of rescue also seems to be strongly connected to the Forest.
Interesting that two of the covers show Harry and DD together, so it looks like they'll patch things up.
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Ginerva Potter - May 11, 2005 11:36 am (#507 of 1448)
I really like the idea that Harry and Dumbledore are in the Pensieve. On the Deluxe cover, neither Harry or Dumbledore have their wands out. I think this means they are positive they are not in danger.
I also think that they could be visiting James and Lily's residence before they went into hiding. It seems to me that is where all their belongings could possibly be. JM2K
Ginny
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Suspero - May 11, 2005 11:49 am (#508 of 1448)
Professor
I feel like such a dummy sometimes... When did we find out that "Spinner's End" is where the Potter home was? Boy, I like the sound of that... By the way, I think Harry is in his robes, not pyjamas, but the art is pretty ambiguous -- my guess is based on that UK cover with the flames.
If the Deluxe Edition cover follows the logic of other covers then what we are seeing is an event late in the book, not chapter 2.
More and more I like the idea that Draco Malfoy is "the Half-Blood Prince", but I still have part of me thinking it's Gryffindor (whose story we've never heard) and another part of me leans toward Snape...
Oh, for a copy of "Hogwarts: A History"!
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S.E. Jones - May 11, 2005 12:06 pm (#509 of 1448)
Let it snow!
We haven't found out that Spinners End is where the Potters lived, it is just a theory....
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Liz Mann - May 11, 2005 12:11 pm (#510 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
From looking at the book covers it looks like Harry spends quite a bit of significant time with Dumbledore in this book. Maybe he's taking extra lessons in magic in order to fight Voldemort.
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I Am Used Vlad - May 11, 2005 12:39 pm (#511 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
frogface, I don't understand why a plot twist in which we find out the Malfoys are half-bloods would mean that everything we learned in CoS is false.
The weakness I find is that I ought to take the jump and say that Draco is the HBP even if he is half-blood. Rather, I would say, under your ideas, it would make sense to look at all pure blood wizards. Also, as JKR has left us, according to your statements, with a considerable lack of clues as to who this person might be, it would be plausible for us to be shocked that someone was actually royalty. So we could throw in those we know to be half-bloods.
I'm looking for an explanation of how it would have worked for Draco to be a half-blood in CoS. It would strengthen support in my mind to have a convincing explanation of how it would add to the storyline for the Malfoys to be less than pureblood now or how it would have worked for HRH to have suspected Draco of being the Heir of Slytherin and of being the Half-Blood Prince in CoS. Ms Amanda
You're correct that it could be a real Prince, and I agree that all full-bloods must be considered using my reasoning. I am not trying to prove that Draco is the HBP, nor prove that others aren't. I just think that Draco makes the most sense.
As for CoS, when the trio suspected Draco of being the Heir, JKR could have had only Harry and Ron take the Polyjuice Potion, and Hermione could have done what she does best; namely, go to the library to research the Malfoys' history. She could have discovered something odd about the Malfoys, and the trio could have continued to investigate until they discovered proof that the Malfoys are half-bloods. Considering the behavior of both Draco a Lucius in CoS, I think it would have been rather fitting to have them disgraced at the end.
As for how it would fit into the story now, most people think that something is going to happen to cause some Slytherins to come over to Harry's side, and the discovery that Draco is half-blooded would not only cause a power shift in Slytherin, but maybe even cause some of the students to reexamine their values.
fbv 807, I've been a Draco=HBP supporter since the day JKR told us the title. I'll warn you now, don't expect a huge number of converts.
And you're theory doesn't contradict me. You think JKR originally intended to give background information about the Malfoys in CoS but decided to move it to book 6. That is exactly what I think, too.
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Grindylow - May 11, 2005 3:19 pm (#512 of 1448)
Can someone post a link to the deluxe edition's cover art?
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Finn BV - May 11, 2005 3:25 pm (#513 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
WOW! Seventeen posts of activity in the 9 hours since I posted!
Vlad, glad we're on the same page and supporters of this noble (or half-noble cause).
To address some issues that have recently come up: I agree that Grindlewald should not be further discussed here, unless people think he is the HBP… Steve said that Grindlewald is a dark wizard, DD is a good wizard, and DD defeated him. Just something to add to DD's list of accomplishments, and something JKR could write about him on his Chocolate Frog card. :-)
I don't think that the new cover is in the Dark Forest. And I will have to disagree that the DF hasn't been a significant place in all the books. Making the stretch in PoA and OoP are quite large, and it's only briefly mentioned when Harry and Hermione meet Crouch, no other time… I tend to agree more with the Godric's Hollow people than the Dark Forest people…
Question for a Host (I will post this also in the 'Questions for the Hosts' thread, appropriately, but it pertains to this thread): The thread name should first of all have a hyphen in between "Half" and "Blood," and also, does this apply solely to who we think the HBP is, or about all thoughts on the book as a whole? Thanks a lot –
-fbv807-
EDIT: Gryffendora, the link is here, at Scholastic. I got it from the Leaky Cauldron.
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Ponine - May 11, 2005 3:29 pm (#514 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Thanks for the link, fbv!
for the record - that would tie nicely in my my theory of the half-blood prince being a centaur.... *hem hem*.... - - - - - - - - - -
So Sirius - May 11, 2005 3:41 pm (#515 of 1448)
To me, it looks like Harry is wearing something you'd sleep in. As this picture is at night, possibly in a forest or outside of the home in Godrics Hollow being destroyed, wherever it is, it looks like Harry woke up from seeing something in dream, got Dumbledore and maybe had a look in the pensive or if it's not a memory, but a reality, they went to save someone because of something Harry saw in a dream.
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Ponine - May 11, 2005 3:44 pm (#516 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Could they be visiting Grawp?(or making peace with the centaurs?) Is it a dream? Or are they together visiting a pensieve memory of DD?
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Finn BV - May 11, 2005 5:26 pm (#517 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Ponine - I agree that Firenze will make one last fairly major storyline before being eliminated - unless DD convinces the centaurs to join the WW? Is that we're they're going on the cover? I don't know if that sounds important enough to make the cover?
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Liz Mann - May 11, 2005 5:31 pm (#518 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
They certainly seem to be watching something, but they're not exactly well-hidden so they can't be spying. Whatever they're looking at, it's got to either be something that can't see them back (i.e. it's not alive) or it's something that they want to see them. It could be the centaurs. They have to call a truce with them sometime afterall. How is Hagrid going to do his gamekeeping duties in there otherwise?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 11, 2005 5:37 pm (#519 of 1448)
Seeing Dumbledore on so many covers has me concerned and happy. Concerned that he will not make it through the book. Happy because Harry will have an opportunity to learn more from Dumbledore. It also leads me in the direction that Dumbledore is the Half-Blood Prince, or may another red herring... LPO
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Mrs. Sirius - May 11, 2005 5:44 pm (#520 of 1448)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
The new art worked released today for HBP show Harry and Dumbledore in a "forested glen, where we find Harry Potter and Dumbledore peering through dense branches,". So Harry and Dumbledore are somewhere that is not (probably) in the school. Is it the Dark Forest or Godric's Hallow? Has Dumbledore finally taken Harry to that place? If he has, why is it Dumbledore taking him?
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Choices - May 11, 2005 6:57 pm (#521 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Maybe Dumbledore has taken Harry to the location of the graveyard on the Hogwart's grounds?
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Miriam Huber - May 12, 2005 3:57 am (#522 of 1448)
Like you, Ponine, I was thinking of Grawp. He HAS to play a major role in HBP, if not, JKR would have left the story of him out of OoP. She said she couldn´t help the book being as long as it has become because she had to give us clues. Said the other way round: If it had been possible, she would have edited out something to shorten it. Grawp is not a major part of the plot in OoP -- which means, he will be in HBP. (AND she hinted in some interview at Grawp being on the one hand the stupidest thing Hagrid has done so far, on the other hand, he will get more controllable)
But, if Dumbledore and Harry are looking for or at Grawp: WHERE IS HAGRID?
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T Brightwater - May 12, 2005 5:42 am (#523 of 1448)
I like the idea of Harry and DD going to talk to the Centaurs. DD obviously has some influence with them, and Harry might be going to speak for Firenze.
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Chemyst - May 12, 2005 6:17 am (#524 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
For what its worth, like KWeldon, I thought Harry & DD were standing behind a fence too. Or more specifically, a gate for a fence which had broken and now has vines growing over it– somplace that has not been used or visited frequently in the last fifteen years.
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KWeldon - May 12, 2005 6:35 am (#525 of 1448)
It struck me as being a fence because it looks nothing like the obvious vine next to it.
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Tomoé - May 12, 2005 6:53 am (#526 of 1448)
Back in business
I wasn't sure if it was fence or not when I saw the amazon.com's picture, but after I saw the TLC's one, I'm sure it's a broken fence.
Here's the high resolution picture.
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Snuffles - May 12, 2005 7:03 am (#527 of 1448)
Olivia
Thanks for the link Tomoe.
It looks like a broken fence to me too.
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Suspero - May 12, 2005 8:07 am (#528 of 1448)
Professor
Thanks for the link Tomoe! Now that I've really studied the larger cover picture I think they are in a place we haven't seen yet, not the Dark Forest, and I doubt that it's on the Hogwarts grounds. It is definitely an old wooden fence, but not for a cemetery. We may have wooden fences around cemeteries in America, but I've never seen such in England -- and even in America wrought iron and stone are more common for Colonial-era cemeteries. I'm convinced that Harry is in his school robes -- the collar of his shirt, the untucked tail of it, and the neck of an undershirt are what I see.
Is Dumbledore leading Harry through a remembered place, as in the Pensieve? Or through a real physical space as in a visit to Godric's Hollow or Spinner's End?
I was really struck again by the associations of Godric Gryffindor, the Death Eaters, Voldemort, etc., when realizing that the most obvious outbreak of prejudice and bigotry takes place at Godric's Hollow. I'm still thinking that whoever the HBP is it is key to this bloodline strife.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 12, 2005 8:35 am (#529 of 1448)
Hmm.More coverart with Harry & Dumbledore.I do believe Dumbledore will be our Half-Blood Prince.If not,I still like the evidence that Dumbledore will be spending more time with Harry since Harry was obviously hurt by his ignoring him in OoP.
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Liz Mann - May 12, 2005 9:48 am (#530 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Looking at it closer, I think it might be a fence too. It would be quite odd for branches to grow straight across like that so low to the ground. In which case, unless there is a property of some kind in the Forbidden Forest, it must be somewhere else. They do seem to be looking at something, though. Whether it's a person or a building or a creature we won't know until the book comes out.
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Grindylow - May 12, 2005 10:01 am (#531 of 1448)
Could it be that they are going to "The Riddle House"? It seems to me the house was run down after Voldy returned with Nagini. Maybe Harry and Dumbledore are going there to search the house for information or clues as to where he is and what his next move is....
As I type this, it sounds a little CRAZY!
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Betelgeuse Black - May 12, 2005 10:35 am (#532 of 1448)
It's not a fence! It's a dead, maimed acromantula's legs!
Just kidding, Betelgeuse
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KWeldon - May 12, 2005 10:58 am (#533 of 1448)
Looking at the picture, it just strikes me that Mary GrandPre has what I envision Dumbledore to look like down to a tee. Nothing like the hippie tied-up beard DD of the movies.
On topic, my second guess behind Gryffindor as HBP is Dumbledore, although it seems fairly obvious, unless JKR names this book after him because he dies in it. Lovely thought, eh!
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Liz Mann - May 12, 2005 11:59 am (#534 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I can't see her killing Dumbledore off in this book. If he is going to die (and I think he is at some point) surely it will be in book seven. Can you imagine a whole book with no Dumbledore? Hogwarts would be in chaos for the whole of book seven. And besides, Dumbledore is the most powerful wizard in the world, and Harry seems to be well on the way to becoming that too (especially if he beats Voldemort through pure skill and magical power, in which case he will have beaten the second most powerful wizard in the world - thereby taking over that position) and I love the idea of Harry reaching his full potential, then Dumbledore dying, and Harry taking over his place as the most powerful wizard in the world.
Although, as you say, Dumbledore seems to be very prominant in this book, and we all know what becoming more prominant meant for Sirius in OotP. But maybe she's going to have an even longer build up for Dumbledore's death than just the one book. After all he's an even more major character than Sirius or Cedric.
I think most likely he's prominant in this book because he has to teach Harry extra DADA stuff for the final fight against Voldie. And surely he can't do that in just the one year?
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Miriam Huber - May 12, 2005 12:52 pm (#535 of 1448)
You are all right about the fence, I think. After two of the three book covers, this is the third picture concerning HBP that shows Dumbledore and Harry. I would really like to see the two of them in closer connetcion -- more master (not so much teacher)-and-pupil (or do you say "disciple"?)-like.
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frogface - May 12, 2005 1:26 pm (#536 of 1448)
Yes I deffinatly see a closer relationship could develop because of these book covers. I think DD realises that Harry needs someone to look up too, and he doesn't have that right now with sirius gone. I hope Lupin will also be able to get closer to Harry in this book to.
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Aurora Gubbins - May 12, 2005 3:10 pm (#537 of 1448)
Jumping back several posts (been busy...) to theories about Fang and the confusion arising about what kind of dog he is, here's a hint - anyone wanting to know what a Great Dane looks like take a look at Scooby Doo as he is one.
Just a thought...
Aurora xx
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Liz Mann - May 12, 2005 3:58 pm (#538 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Except that Fang is black.
Do you know, I'm in England and I didn't know that a boarhound is another name for a Great Dane. I've never heard them called that before and neither had mum. I just did an image search for 'black boarhound' and it came up with nothing.
The film makers definately got the wrong breed.
Sigh. Harry definately seems to be getting closer to Dumbledore, and probably will to Remus too, which is a shame on both counts because both are characters that I think will die and Harry will be hurt yet again. In fact I've got a horrible feeling that a lot of the people he cares about will die.
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S.E. Jones - May 12, 2005 4:15 pm (#539 of 1448)
Let it snow!
I thought 'boarhound' was used for both Great Danes and Mastiffs. Maybe they asked JKR for clarity.
I can definately see the fence in the Hi-Res pic. I still don't think that rules out the Forbidden Forest, though. However, I am becoming more inclined to believe it is either somewhere from a pensieve memory (maybe one they're looking at on the other US cover?), the wooded area around Godric's Hollow, or both.
EDIT: Just to clarify for those wondering about Fang: Great Danes are also known as "German Mastiffs". There is evidence that suggests that there were similar dogs as the Great Dane in ancient Greek and Roman times. Originally developed from the boarhound they were used to hunt boar in the Middle Ages. The Germans are given credit to have developed the breed as it is known today. Some suggest they were crossed with the ancient Mastiff and Irish Wolfhound.
So, it seems that the term 'boarhound' refers to any dog bred to hunt boar, especially Mastiffs, which include the Great Danes, which became popular in the Middle Ages.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 12, 2005 5:23 pm (#540 of 1448)
The picture looks like Harry and Dumbledore are looking for something or looking out for something. Their eyes are both looking sideways in the same direction. Its almost like they are sneaking into a place they should not be. The picture has a here and now feeling. I don't think it is a Pensive. Harry is sure growing. He is almost as tall as Dumbledore! LPO
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Veritaserum - May 12, 2005 5:49 pm (#541 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Here are my thoughts on the new cover: I agree that Harry looks like he's in pajamas, or at least more relaxed clothes than a school uniform would seem to be. Perhaps he's going old-school-just-wearing-long-tunics and such on us. Also, I agree that it is a fence. On further pondering, I don't think this is the Forbidden Forest. It doesn't look dark or forbidding to me. On the contrary, I think it looks kind of mystical and peaceful, like old-school faerie-land or something. However, I do think it is a forest, not just somebody's overgrown front yard. I also think it looks like Dumbledore is leading Harry somewhere, to show him something he should see.
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Stringer - May 12, 2005 7:45 pm (#542 of 1448)
The fence on the cover looks more like a residential, or field type fence. If I were building a fence in the forbidden forest, it would look more substantial. With all the creatures in the forest, if your going to build a fence to keep something in or out it would need to be solid. JM2K
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Grindylow - May 13, 2005 8:01 am (#543 of 1448)
In POA, were the hippogriffs not kept in a fenced in area of the forbidden forest? I may be thinking of the movie adaptation, but it seemed like within the forest, there was a "fenced" in area where Hagrid kept Buckbeak and his fellow hippogriffs. Just a thought.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 13, 2005 8:07 am (#544 of 1448)
Jo has updated her site and has said that as Sirius stated in OoP there are no pure blood families.The families who claim to be pure blood simply just cross undesirables off their family tree. So..I guess Draco has as good of chance as any of being the HBP.
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Miriam Huber - May 13, 2005 8:07 am (#545 of 1448)
I find it rather interesting that they do not have their wands out. IF Grand Pré has them left-handed again, Harry could clutch his wand in his pocket, but Dumbledore couldn´t (his left hand ist out). But I don´t think so, I looks rather that they are looking at something/-body very interesting but are in no danger.
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Suspero - May 13, 2005 11:38 am (#546 of 1448)
Professor
Madame Pomfrey -- where did you find that update on JKR's site?
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GryffEndora - May 13, 2005 11:46 am (#547 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Suspero - the info is in the FAQ along with other wonderful tid-bits. Also check out rumors and the FSA.
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Liz Mann - May 13, 2005 12:49 pm (#548 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Jo has updated her site and has said that as Sirius stated in OoP there are no pure blood families.The families who claim to be pure blood simply just cross undesirables off their family tree. So..I guess Draco has as good of chance as any of being the HBP.
At this rate it could be anyone!
Did anyone hear about Emerson from Mugglenet and Melissa from The Leaky Cauldron getting to interview J.K. about this book just after it comes out (apparently it's probably going to be the only interview she's going to do)? This is fantastic! Do you know why? Because we know Emerson and Melissa aren't going to ask all those same questions that some people keep asking over and over and over that we all know the answers to already. These are going to be worthwhile questions, hopefully with worthwhile answers. Melissa's going mad over at TLC!
(Note to self: Make sure own fansite becomes really popular before book seven comes out. Maybe she'll pick me next. )
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Suspero - May 13, 2005 4:27 pm (#549 of 1448)
Professor
Thank you, GryffEndora! I never ran across the little paper clips before.
Does pique the curiosity, wot? Wonder what she means when she says, "this subject is touched upon"?
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Chemyst - May 13, 2005 5:18 pm (#550 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Miriam Huber, in answer to your pupil/disciple question #535, in the US, we'd most likely use student, although both pupil and disciple would make sense. "Disciple" usually has a philosophy or religion connotation, but it also applies to a student who follows one strong leader, and DD would certainly qualify as the greatest wizard. "Pupil" also means student, usually young students in a classroom. But it can also refer to somebody who is taught by or is influenced by the teachings of a particular person. A trainee is someone who is learning a skill or task.
If you don't want to use "teacher" for DD, a mentor is an experienced person who gives support and advice. Master has a favorable connotation when used to describe a high degree of skill in music, martial arts, and golf, but it can also be considered offensive when used opposite slave or as a cult leader.
As to the cover art on the deluxe edition, it seems as if DD is guiding Harry to some place that was important in his history, so I would probably choose to label it a "mentoring relationship."
(By the way, what is your native language? I searched the "Tell About Yourself" thread but there were no matches.)
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 551 to 600)
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Miriam Huber - May 14, 2005 3:33 am (#551 of 1448)
Oh, many thanks, Chemyst! "Mentor", of course, I didn´t think of that. My native language (as known to all those who read the "Thoughts about translation"-thread) is German, and as I am a religious studies scholar, I smiled when I read your answer concerning "disciple" ...
(By the way, as I was and probably will be again a teacher, I never tell about myself on the web -- "Miriam Huber" is not my real name --, because I don´t want my students to find my silly postings in unlikely forums when they google their teachers´ names just for fun...)
I totally agree with the description as "mentoring relationship".
P.S. I know it is a litte annoying not to know about the people you talk with. Your question made me think, Chemyst. Perhaps in keeping my pseudonym, I will create at least some kind of "profile".
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librarian314 - May 16, 2005 1:04 pm (#552 of 1448)
Things to look for in Half Blood Prince
Hey all!
As I am getting ready to re-read the series in anticipation of HBP, I'm starting to think about all the things that I want to keep track of both while I'm re-reading but mostly whilst reading HBP. Things like how Harry gets to Hogwarts and if he's on the train, who rides with him and who accompanies Draco on the obligatory stop to torment Harry.
So far, besides those above, I'm going to watch for mentions of werewolves (there are too many off handed comments about them for Remus to be the only one), vampires (ditto above), flower names, people with double letter names (Luna Lovegood, Minerva McGonagall, Cho Chang), double P names (Piers Polkiss, Pansy Parkinson) in particular, and various colors.
Do y'all have other things that have struck you as things that needed to be watched for clues, foreshadowing, or deeper meaning?
*michelle the librarian**
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Saralinda Again - May 16, 2005 2:38 pm (#553 of 1448)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Well, you could always add:
names of stars and constellations
activities relating to socks
changes in the character of the relationship between Harry and the Dursleys
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Chemyst - May 16, 2005 4:33 pm (#554 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
potions ingredients
Ron's off-hand jokes
sorting hat songs
Filch, he is in a position to know things and has been a visible minor character all along
Arthur's associates at the WQC and at the MoM
more reasons a Pansy 'ship would not unite the houses.
Hagrid & Grawp, (because I've always skimmed that on previous re-reads)
clues about the creatures destroyed in the Fountain of Magical Brethren
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T Brightwater - May 16, 2005 5:12 pm (#555 of 1448)
Dobby, and any house-elf we are introduced to by name.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 16, 2005 6:16 pm (#556 of 1448)
I'm listening to them on tape. I'm enjoying the different ways Jo uses sunrises and sunsets as symbolism.
Liz I am really looking forward to reading Melissa and Emerson's interview with Jo. I'm so happy for them. I agree they will ask wonderful questions that others will not. To get to read the book in Edinburgh Castle. WOW. LPO
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Veritaserum - May 16, 2005 6:47 pm (#557 of 1448)
Go Jays!
- references to the veil and/or Sirius - mentions of otherwise unknown Order members - references to the chamber of secrets! (either the book or the actual place)
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pottermom34 - May 16, 2005 8:11 pm (#558 of 1448)
anything describing what happened at Godrics Hollow, descriptions of his parents and how much he looks like them especially Lily
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Tomoé - May 16, 2005 9:57 pm (#559 of 1448)
Back in business
Anything that struck the characters as odd
Anybody that is introduced before Harry get to school, the DADA tacher is always introduced before hand
Any mention of any student of Harry's year
Any mention of vampire
That's all I can think of for the moment, but I'm sure there will be other thing when I'll be reading. I plan to read HBP with a notepad beside me.
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Betelgeuse Black - May 17, 2005 7:02 am (#560 of 1448)
I'm posting this on this thread after posting it on the official site board. It's about the reference to the FAQ answer about Neville being made "king" if Voldemort chose to kill him instead of Harry. ---------------
I think the context of using "king" with the Neville answer is the biggest clue. This means that Harry is "King" but not in a "bloodline" or literal manner. I think this adds weight to the argument that the HBP is not a literal "prince" but a princely Half-Blood.
Betelgeuse
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Ydnam96 - May 17, 2005 8:16 am (#561 of 1448)
Betelgeuse, I am inclined to think you are correct. Her choice of wording there was peculiar at best, deliberate (of course), and quite egnimatic. Of course, her answer brought up more questions than it did by answering anything.
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Choices - May 17, 2005 8:50 am (#562 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Check out references to "knots" (Nott) throughout the books, especially book 5. Knots can signify unity. Knitting is basically making knots. Knots on trees, knots of people, knots in stomachs - all sorts of knots. It's interesting.
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Steve Newton - May 17, 2005 9:10 am (#563 of 1448)
Librarian
Does anything happen to Lavender on October 16?
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Gina R Snape - May 17, 2005 12:10 pm (#564 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I don't think the use of the word King is anything more than an expression.
But I do think she's told us some interesting things about the focus of HbP, and Harry's outlook.
Since the scar is of such significance, I think Harry will be spending more time learning occlumency and legilimency. I think he will be, not just fully informed about Order plans, but part and parcel of their plans by learning how to use the scar to his advantage.
I also think he will wind up having a sit down with Neville, and it's anyone's guess how Neville will react. Judging from his reactions in OOTP, though, I'd say he realises how close he was and decides to step up his own defensive magic skills. He may even make a connexion to how and why Snape treats him differently since I am certain Snape knows the prophesy full well. It's entirely possible that Neville is not fully out of the woods, since the Dark Lord only knows half the prophesy. Sure, he knows now that Harry is THE one, but Neville's proximity to past events may come into play if, say, something happens with his parents.
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The giant squid - May 17, 2005 3:38 pm (#565 of 1448)
I don't think the use of the word King is anything more than an expression.
Thank you, Gina--I was thinking the same thing. It was just a play on the phrase/title "The man who would be king." It is an odd choice of phrase, though, seeing as we've been itching to know who the HBP is for months...I'm sure she's getting quite a chuckle out of the sudden flurry of speculation.
--Mike
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Steve Newton - May 17, 2005 4:16 pm (#566 of 1448)
Librarian
I have to disagree. After the Mark Evans fiasco I don't think that JKR ever uses a word frivolously. (Well, not even before the ME Fiasco.) She could have very easily used another word and didn't. With the next book having 'Prince' in the title I cannot see it as anything but a clue.
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Veritaserum - May 17, 2005 4:57 pm (#567 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I think she definitely used it deliberately, but its purpose may just have been to laugh at how much we're all reading into it. I could just see her at the computer: "ooh, this one will really make them excited"
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Finn BV - May 17, 2005 5:14 pm (#568 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Yes, I agree with Veritaserum. She probably wrote it unconsciously, and then thought of changing it, and then said… oh, they'll have a whole thread devoted to this one at the HPL Forum!
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Betelgeuse Black - May 18, 2005 5:47 am (#569 of 1448)
I agree with Gina and others that the legilimency and occlumency skill will be critical. I was intrigued by the wording of how Harry has a window into Voldy's mind (and-vice versa).
I also agree that Neville and Harry will probably discuss the prophecy and it's significance to each of them. From the answer Jo gave, I think it's clear that the WW is lucky that Harry was chosen and not Neville. This doesn't mean that Neville is a wimp, it just means that Harry is extraordinary in his courage, quick thinking and power that the dark lord knows not. Neville is coming into his own, finally. Neville never would have had the chance to overcome his lack of confidence out of the spotlight if he had been chosen by Voldy.
I have to respectfully disagree that the word "King" seemed to have significance. It's just the kind of clue that Jo loves to plant. Yes, it could be just referring to being famous or important. I just don't think that she's using these words lightly. Many have other opinions so I won't argue the point further unless someone wants to discuss it further.
Betelgeuse
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librarian314 - May 18, 2005 5:51 am (#570 of 1448)
Hey all!
I'm posting this here even though it's discussing an assumption we've been making because it's about HBP and not the rest of the series. Feel free to drag this off elsewhere, if you think it fits there better. (Being a cataloguing librarian can be a bit of a hazard sometimes. :-P)
Anyways, it struck me the other day that in just about all the discussions I've seen being "the Half Blood Prince" has generally been seen as a good thing. What if it isn't?
Noble honorifics like Lord, Duke, Count, Prince, and King are generally neutral in their meanings on the scale of good and evil. A person can be "the King of Rock'n'Roll" (Elvis) or "the King of Pain" (A song by the Police). One can be a prince among men or the Prince of Darkness. You can be Count Dracula or Count Chocula (1).:-)
In the HP series, the only living person we have ever seen, even though this takes place in the UK where noble titles abound (as compared to the States), who uses a noble honorific is Lord Voldemort. As this is the only example of the use, it makes me feel as though noble honorifics are not a good thing and thus, perhaps, neither is the Half-blood prince.
(Several of the Hogwarts' ghost have honorifics: Sir Nicholas, the Bloody Baron, and the Grey Lady. (Although the Grey Lady could also refer to her gender rather than social status.))
Just something to contemplate!
(1)Count Chocula is a kids' breakfast cereal, here in the States. The cereal's mascot is a brown, chocolate loving vampire. He used to hang out with Boo Berry (a ghost) and Frankenberry (a pink Frankenstein monster) also cereal mascots.
*michelle the librarian**
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Steve Newton - May 18, 2005 5:56 am (#571 of 1448)
Librarian
Several have mentioned occlumency and legilimency. I think that they are no longer relevant. Voldemort possessed Harry and could not stand it and left, not because of anything that Dumbledore did. I don't think that V will attempt anything like that again on Harry. Dumbledore seems to agree when he speaks with, and looks at, Harry at the end of OOTP.
I think that Neville being the failed King and, perhaps, the Princem may not be good news for Neville. For some undefined reason I think that this could mean that he ends up being the martyr of the Wizarding World.
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Her-melanie - May 18, 2005 5:59 am (#572 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I think it's possible that the word "King" was used as a tease, but it could also be a double-bluff. I was thinking of what she could be trying to indicate, either truthfully or teasingly, with the use of that word, and I thought it might be this: if the two boys are related to one another through the prophecy, and the marked one is referred to as the "King," what does that make the one who possibly was ALMOST King? A prince???? Could this be a clue that Neville is the HBP? If the Neville portion of RPS's Long Theory About Harry's Family is true, that could be it exactly. EDIT: I have just finished reading the JKR website thread, and I see I wasn't the first to see that possibility. Ah well, that's what I get for going out of town when the poll question was answered.
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Gina R Snape - May 18, 2005 7:10 am (#573 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Mmmmmmmm, Count Chocula.
I don't think we're going to have the exact same issues as OOTP with Voldemort trying to possess Harry. But I do foresee them trying to use each other to see what the other side is up to. Instead of shutting him out, Harry may want to try and tune in to find things out in benefit of the Order, if he can do so undetected.
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Betelgeuse Black - May 18, 2005 8:00 am (#574 of 1448)
Steve,
I don't think Voldy will possess Harry. He will try to trick him again if he gets the opportunity; hence, the need for occlumency.
Betelgeuse
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Steve Newton - May 18, 2005 8:04 am (#575 of 1448)
Librarian
Maybe, but, now that Harry knows the situation I think that both sides will be playing the game. I think that Harry is smarter, and stronger.
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Tomoé - May 18, 2005 8:49 am (#576 of 1448)
Back in business
I don't think Occulumency is still relevant, the failed curse opened a "window" across their mind and I don't think anything could close it off. Now, legilimency could be useful, Harry should be able to get stuff from Voldemort. I'm not sure if he'll need Legilimency lesson or if I'll get it by himself, but that ability will become important in the last two books.
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Liz Mann - May 18, 2005 9:50 am (#577 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think the word 'king' was just a reference to Harry's status in the wizarding world as a result of the prophecy. It's a well-known fact that celebrities have an awful lot of status and influence, perhaps more so even than polititians.
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vball man - May 18, 2005 10:50 am (#578 of 1448)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I would lean toward saying that JKR's answer on Neville points away from the idea that Neville is HBP. Neville will not be king - so he is not now prince.
Harry will be king. Is "king" to be taken in the same sense that "prince" is in HBP? I dunno.
JKR's comments don't rule much out.
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GryffEndora - May 18, 2005 11:31 am (#579 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I agree with those who think Occlumancy and Legillimancy will be important to Harry in the upcoming books. This window is open and Harry needs to learn how to close it, shutter it & screen it. He needs to know when to not let anything out, when to let a trickle in and when to filter information through it. This magical tool may be the key but if Harry cannot manipulate and control it in the same way that LV can he is at a disadvantage. As Snape tried to teach him in OotP, Harry need Occlumancy lessons to learn to control and hide his emotions from LV. I just don't think Snape will be teaching him any longer.
librarian314 - Interesting point on the honorifics. As for weather or not the HBP is good or bad I don't know. The Stone was benign, (good if used for good, bad if used for bad), the Chamber was the home of a dark creature in the control of a dark wizard so it was bad, The Prisoner was not bad but we spent most of PoA thinking he was, the Goblet was also a benign object, (Fake Moody's misuse of the object led to Harry's peril but the Goblet it self was not an evil thing), The Order is definately good. I guess the HBP could then either be good, bad or neutral. Thank you for pointing this out, I guess I hadn't realized many of us are thinking the HBP must be good. I guess the fact that they are a Half-Blood and LV is for Pure Bloods is the reason many of us have assumed that LV and HBP will not be on the same side, but as we saw with Umbrage, just because you are not a Death Eater doesn't necessarily mean you are not EVIL.
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Molly Fox - May 18, 2005 3:56 pm (#580 of 1448)
Does anyone else notice what seems to be part of the Dark Mark on the binding of the Deluxe Edition cover? It's pretty big if that's what it is. Can anyone else see it?
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GryffEndora - May 18, 2005 4:16 pm (#581 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Now that you mention it I do see something near the bottom of the binding on the deluxe edition that is the correct shape to be the lower right portion of the dark mark. It is not the same as the sparkly dark mark on the stand up, this would have to be a filled in skull with a snake image, it would also be wrapping around from the back cover. There does seem to be spaces that could be an eye hole and a mouth area, but maybe it is the power of suggestion. However, this could also be tree bark or vines. Either way, nice catch.
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mike miller - May 18, 2005 4:57 pm (#582 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
The comment by JKR referring to the "magical window into Voldemort's mind" caught my attention also. I had posted some time ago that I think Harry will place something in Voldemort's mind that will lead to Harry having the upper hand in their final confrontation. Turnabout is fair play after all.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 19, 2005 6:00 pm (#583 of 1448)
I really like the idea of Harry placing something into Voldemort's head. He will have to do it carefully. Voldemort always knows when someone is lying. I think the prophecy will still need to be a guarded secret. Harry will have to learn to guard his thoughts from Voldemort. Neville is very loyal to Harry. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to finding out the prophecy. LPO
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Liz Mann - May 20, 2005 11:59 am (#584 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Voldemort always knows when someone is lying.
Except when someone can do Occlumency which Harry is learning. Maybe that's the real reason J.K. wanted him to learn it.
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mike miller - May 20, 2005 12:34 pm (#585 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Harry was "inside" Voldemort's mind for some time without him being aware of the intrusion (all of the time prior to the attack on Arthur). It may be that the nature of the connection allows for "subtle" interaction, like simply seeing what the other sees, without the knowledge or awareness of the other. On the other hand, Dumbledore seems less concerned about what Harry knows after Voldemort's possession of Harry in the MOM.
Voldemort tends to be short-sighted, even all the way back to the rash act of trying to kill young Harry. Dumbledore may think that Voldemort will "stay out" of Harry's mind due to a combination of the possession experience and Harry's awareness of how Voldemort has used him. Since Voldemort has chosen to stop the connection, he thinks Harry will do the same. Voldemort's short-sightedness could leave the "window" open for Harry.
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Liz Mann - May 20, 2005 2:26 pm (#586 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
If Voldemort is a legilimens, isn't it possible he's an occlumens as well? If he knows Harry could get into his mind, even if he's not going to try it the other way round, he might block his own mind off.
You're right about Voldemort being short sighted though. He's proved that on several occasions. With the incident when Harry was a baby, he didn't realise what would happen because he underestimates love, since he doesn't understand it. It's understandable. Subjects you know very little about you're not really going to think about or put much faith in. His mistakes in the Chamber and the graveyard were the stupidest. I mean, in the Chamber Riddle was standing there just watching as Fawkes cried on the wound and it took aaaaages for him to realise! "Do you see what he's doing, Potter? He's crying." "Of course... healing powers... I forgot." Forgot!
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Blaise Zabini - May 21, 2005 12:57 pm (#587 of 1448)
Cover Art Revelance to Events in Books
I was looking over the jackets of the first five Harry Potter books and realized something. On every cover, an obstacle Harry faced in the book was shown.
Cover of first book: Fluffy Cover of second book: Snakes Cover of third book: Dementors Cover of fourth book: Many of the obstacles faced during triwizard tournament-->dragon's egg for example Cover of fifth book: Death Eaters-->Lucius Malfoy for example
Now, based upon this information, it is possible that the penseive is something Harry has to deal with. Though there can be an obstacle on the back of the book, I still believe it would be the penseive. I am not sure how, but if anyone knows, please give me your advice!
-->I'd also like to know who the lady is on the inside of the flap of the first book behind the curtain.
Note: I used the American versions of the books when making my hypothesis.
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Finn BV - May 21, 2005 12:57 pm (#588 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Nice theory, Blaise. It probably is, but can we be sure that that's a Pensieve on the cover of HBP? It could be some newly introduced object. Anyway, I dothink it's a Pensieve, so: as conjectured numerous other places, I think DD could show Harry what happened "that night" at Godric's Hollow. Very interesting speculation, though.
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frogface - May 21, 2005 3:08 pm (#589 of 1448)
Very interesting. Also looking at the UK version we see Harry and Dumbledore in what looks like quite a scary situation. Dumbledore looks really really angry and/or scared and has his wand shooting out a jet of fire. Whatever they are facing must deffinatly be an obstacle if ever there was one.
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Madam Pince - May 21, 2005 3:12 pm (#590 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Good question about who the person is behind the curtain on the inside front flap of "Sorceror's Stone," Blaise. I've often wondered that myself. I never thought of it as being a lady, but you may be right. The hand looks sort of greenish to me, and the nails look long and yellowed, which is sort of yucky, isn't it? I just don't know.
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mooncalf - May 21, 2005 3:42 pm (#591 of 1448)
Maybe it's just a matter of interpretation, but I don't see any Death Eaters on the cover of the fifth book. Of course, that wouldn't mess up your theory, Blaise. The circular room could certainly be considered an obstacle.
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Miriam Huber - May 22, 2005 4:21 am (#592 of 1448)
Well, what about combining the three covers:
Harry is reading the old potion making book so intently that he stumbles on the Pillar of Storé on which the pensieve is placed. The pensieve falls and bursts in a lot of flames (connection to Fawkes?) and Dumbledore arrives just in time to help Harry putting the flames out by magic?
Sorry, but I feel like I need book 6 most desperately, I am running short of really good things to discuss (don´t want to hurt anyone and talking not about this thread in particular but the forum in general - including my posts! - but aren´t our discussions getting more and more far-fetched?)
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Netherlandic - May 22, 2005 5:21 am (#593 of 1448)
I have a nice subject for discussing, Miriam, though I am not certain on which thread it belongs and perhaps it has already been discussed. But I think I know how the order communicates. I shall post it sometimes at the "right" tread.
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So Sirius - May 22, 2005 9:52 am (#594 of 1448)
Regarding this new book cover; to me it looks like they're in a forest. If I had to guess, I'd say Grawp has either escaped or done something to cause worry and perhaps Harry has brought Dumbledore out to find him. Maybe they're off to save Hagger.
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Regan of Gong - May 23, 2005 12:09 am (#595 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Ahhhh, good thought. But it wouldn't be really hard to find Grawp, let alone lose him. Just follow the trail of mindless destruction...
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Veritaserum - May 23, 2005 3:13 pm (#596 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Netherlandic, the "Order of the Phoenix" thread would be the perfect place to put your theory, unless it has some other crazy connections to things.
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GryffEndora - May 23, 2005 3:20 pm (#597 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Arthur Levine the Scholastic editor of HBP gave the name of a new character in HBP today on CNN. I read this in an article on the Leaky Cauldron news page. The name is in white => McLeggen.
I didn't have any luck finding anything about the meaning of the name but I probably didn't try hard enough.
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S.E. Jones - May 23, 2005 7:07 pm (#598 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Here's where she mentioned the name before:
Edinburgh Book Festival; August 2004:
Q: How do you think of all the names, like Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs?
A: Those names all came out of the creatures that they turned into. I had a lot of fun with those. Wormtail was the most difficult one. My sister loathes rats and her problem with them is their tails, so that is what gave me the idea. You actually know how I get some names because I stole my Mum’s maiden name, didn’t I? You have to be careful if you get friendly with me because you tend to turn up in my books, and if you offend me, you often turn up as nasty characters. I found the name McClaggan the other day, which I think is a great name. There is a McClaggan in book six because I thought it is a surname that is too good to waste.
This transcript can be found on her site under the 'News' section.
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GryffEndora - May 23, 2005 7:09 pm (#599 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Thanks S.E. Jones. I think the CNN Transcript has the spelling different and that is why I had trouble finding it on quick quotes.
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Liz Mann - May 24, 2005 10:26 am (#600 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Uh oh. It is being reported by The Sun newspaper (British tabloid notorious for printing rubbish), as well as other sources, are saying that there has been a dramatic increase in people placing large bets in the bookies that a certain character (who I will not name) will die in this book. And all these bets are coming from the town the book is being printed in! Which suggests that someone might have leaked the book content! Honestly, some people!
And now Mugglenet are saying that there has also been a large increase in people (presumably from the same area) betting on a particular character being the HBP.
Leaky and Mugglenet are both reporting on it, but don't follow their links to the article unless you're prepared for a HUGE POSSIBLE SPOILER!!
Unfortunately, I first heard about it from mum who saw the paper in the shops and she told me the character name. I must rememeber to reproach her about that later. But I don't know who the rumoured HBP is.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Oh, many thanks, Chemyst! "Mentor", of course, I didn´t think of that. My native language (as known to all those who read the "Thoughts about translation"-thread) is German, and as I am a religious studies scholar, I smiled when I read your answer concerning "disciple" ...
(By the way, as I was and probably will be again a teacher, I never tell about myself on the web -- "Miriam Huber" is not my real name --, because I don´t want my students to find my silly postings in unlikely forums when they google their teachers´ names just for fun...)
I totally agree with the description as "mentoring relationship".
P.S. I know it is a litte annoying not to know about the people you talk with. Your question made me think, Chemyst. Perhaps in keeping my pseudonym, I will create at least some kind of "profile".
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librarian314 - May 16, 2005 1:04 pm (#552 of 1448)
Things to look for in Half Blood Prince
Hey all!
As I am getting ready to re-read the series in anticipation of HBP, I'm starting to think about all the things that I want to keep track of both while I'm re-reading but mostly whilst reading HBP. Things like how Harry gets to Hogwarts and if he's on the train, who rides with him and who accompanies Draco on the obligatory stop to torment Harry.
So far, besides those above, I'm going to watch for mentions of werewolves (there are too many off handed comments about them for Remus to be the only one), vampires (ditto above), flower names, people with double letter names (Luna Lovegood, Minerva McGonagall, Cho Chang), double P names (Piers Polkiss, Pansy Parkinson) in particular, and various colors.
Do y'all have other things that have struck you as things that needed to be watched for clues, foreshadowing, or deeper meaning?
*michelle the librarian**
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Saralinda Again - May 16, 2005 2:38 pm (#553 of 1448)
My Patronus is a Crumple-Horn Snorkack
Well, you could always add:
names of stars and constellations
activities relating to socks
changes in the character of the relationship between Harry and the Dursleys
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Chemyst - May 16, 2005 4:33 pm (#554 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
potions ingredients
Ron's off-hand jokes
sorting hat songs
Filch, he is in a position to know things and has been a visible minor character all along
Arthur's associates at the WQC and at the MoM
more reasons a Pansy 'ship would not unite the houses.
Hagrid & Grawp, (because I've always skimmed that on previous re-reads)
clues about the creatures destroyed in the Fountain of Magical Brethren
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T Brightwater - May 16, 2005 5:12 pm (#555 of 1448)
Dobby, and any house-elf we are introduced to by name.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 16, 2005 6:16 pm (#556 of 1448)
I'm listening to them on tape. I'm enjoying the different ways Jo uses sunrises and sunsets as symbolism.
Liz I am really looking forward to reading Melissa and Emerson's interview with Jo. I'm so happy for them. I agree they will ask wonderful questions that others will not. To get to read the book in Edinburgh Castle. WOW. LPO
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Veritaserum - May 16, 2005 6:47 pm (#557 of 1448)
Go Jays!
- references to the veil and/or Sirius - mentions of otherwise unknown Order members - references to the chamber of secrets! (either the book or the actual place)
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pottermom34 - May 16, 2005 8:11 pm (#558 of 1448)
anything describing what happened at Godrics Hollow, descriptions of his parents and how much he looks like them especially Lily
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Tomoé - May 16, 2005 9:57 pm (#559 of 1448)
Back in business
Anything that struck the characters as odd
Anybody that is introduced before Harry get to school, the DADA tacher is always introduced before hand
Any mention of any student of Harry's year
Any mention of vampire
That's all I can think of for the moment, but I'm sure there will be other thing when I'll be reading. I plan to read HBP with a notepad beside me.
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Betelgeuse Black - May 17, 2005 7:02 am (#560 of 1448)
I'm posting this on this thread after posting it on the official site board. It's about the reference to the FAQ answer about Neville being made "king" if Voldemort chose to kill him instead of Harry. ---------------
I think the context of using "king" with the Neville answer is the biggest clue. This means that Harry is "King" but not in a "bloodline" or literal manner. I think this adds weight to the argument that the HBP is not a literal "prince" but a princely Half-Blood.
Betelgeuse
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Ydnam96 - May 17, 2005 8:16 am (#561 of 1448)
Betelgeuse, I am inclined to think you are correct. Her choice of wording there was peculiar at best, deliberate (of course), and quite egnimatic. Of course, her answer brought up more questions than it did by answering anything.
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Choices - May 17, 2005 8:50 am (#562 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Check out references to "knots" (Nott) throughout the books, especially book 5. Knots can signify unity. Knitting is basically making knots. Knots on trees, knots of people, knots in stomachs - all sorts of knots. It's interesting.
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Steve Newton - May 17, 2005 9:10 am (#563 of 1448)
Librarian
Does anything happen to Lavender on October 16?
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Gina R Snape - May 17, 2005 12:10 pm (#564 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I don't think the use of the word King is anything more than an expression.
But I do think she's told us some interesting things about the focus of HbP, and Harry's outlook.
Since the scar is of such significance, I think Harry will be spending more time learning occlumency and legilimency. I think he will be, not just fully informed about Order plans, but part and parcel of their plans by learning how to use the scar to his advantage.
I also think he will wind up having a sit down with Neville, and it's anyone's guess how Neville will react. Judging from his reactions in OOTP, though, I'd say he realises how close he was and decides to step up his own defensive magic skills. He may even make a connexion to how and why Snape treats him differently since I am certain Snape knows the prophesy full well. It's entirely possible that Neville is not fully out of the woods, since the Dark Lord only knows half the prophesy. Sure, he knows now that Harry is THE one, but Neville's proximity to past events may come into play if, say, something happens with his parents.
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The giant squid - May 17, 2005 3:38 pm (#565 of 1448)
I don't think the use of the word King is anything more than an expression.
Thank you, Gina--I was thinking the same thing. It was just a play on the phrase/title "The man who would be king." It is an odd choice of phrase, though, seeing as we've been itching to know who the HBP is for months...I'm sure she's getting quite a chuckle out of the sudden flurry of speculation.
--Mike
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Steve Newton - May 17, 2005 4:16 pm (#566 of 1448)
Librarian
I have to disagree. After the Mark Evans fiasco I don't think that JKR ever uses a word frivolously. (Well, not even before the ME Fiasco.) She could have very easily used another word and didn't. With the next book having 'Prince' in the title I cannot see it as anything but a clue.
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Veritaserum - May 17, 2005 4:57 pm (#567 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I think she definitely used it deliberately, but its purpose may just have been to laugh at how much we're all reading into it. I could just see her at the computer: "ooh, this one will really make them excited"
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Finn BV - May 17, 2005 5:14 pm (#568 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Yes, I agree with Veritaserum. She probably wrote it unconsciously, and then thought of changing it, and then said… oh, they'll have a whole thread devoted to this one at the HPL Forum!
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Betelgeuse Black - May 18, 2005 5:47 am (#569 of 1448)
I agree with Gina and others that the legilimency and occlumency skill will be critical. I was intrigued by the wording of how Harry has a window into Voldy's mind (and-vice versa).
I also agree that Neville and Harry will probably discuss the prophecy and it's significance to each of them. From the answer Jo gave, I think it's clear that the WW is lucky that Harry was chosen and not Neville. This doesn't mean that Neville is a wimp, it just means that Harry is extraordinary in his courage, quick thinking and power that the dark lord knows not. Neville is coming into his own, finally. Neville never would have had the chance to overcome his lack of confidence out of the spotlight if he had been chosen by Voldy.
I have to respectfully disagree that the word "King" seemed to have significance. It's just the kind of clue that Jo loves to plant. Yes, it could be just referring to being famous or important. I just don't think that she's using these words lightly. Many have other opinions so I won't argue the point further unless someone wants to discuss it further.
Betelgeuse
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librarian314 - May 18, 2005 5:51 am (#570 of 1448)
Hey all!
I'm posting this here even though it's discussing an assumption we've been making because it's about HBP and not the rest of the series. Feel free to drag this off elsewhere, if you think it fits there better. (Being a cataloguing librarian can be a bit of a hazard sometimes. :-P)
Anyways, it struck me the other day that in just about all the discussions I've seen being "the Half Blood Prince" has generally been seen as a good thing. What if it isn't?
Noble honorifics like Lord, Duke, Count, Prince, and King are generally neutral in their meanings on the scale of good and evil. A person can be "the King of Rock'n'Roll" (Elvis) or "the King of Pain" (A song by the Police). One can be a prince among men or the Prince of Darkness. You can be Count Dracula or Count Chocula (1).:-)
In the HP series, the only living person we have ever seen, even though this takes place in the UK where noble titles abound (as compared to the States), who uses a noble honorific is Lord Voldemort. As this is the only example of the use, it makes me feel as though noble honorifics are not a good thing and thus, perhaps, neither is the Half-blood prince.
(Several of the Hogwarts' ghost have honorifics: Sir Nicholas, the Bloody Baron, and the Grey Lady. (Although the Grey Lady could also refer to her gender rather than social status.))
Just something to contemplate!
(1)Count Chocula is a kids' breakfast cereal, here in the States. The cereal's mascot is a brown, chocolate loving vampire. He used to hang out with Boo Berry (a ghost) and Frankenberry (a pink Frankenstein monster) also cereal mascots.
*michelle the librarian**
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Steve Newton - May 18, 2005 5:56 am (#571 of 1448)
Librarian
Several have mentioned occlumency and legilimency. I think that they are no longer relevant. Voldemort possessed Harry and could not stand it and left, not because of anything that Dumbledore did. I don't think that V will attempt anything like that again on Harry. Dumbledore seems to agree when he speaks with, and looks at, Harry at the end of OOTP.
I think that Neville being the failed King and, perhaps, the Princem may not be good news for Neville. For some undefined reason I think that this could mean that he ends up being the martyr of the Wizarding World.
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Her-melanie - May 18, 2005 5:59 am (#572 of 1448)
"Did he say you look like a pig that's been taught to walk on its hind legs? 'Cause that's not cheek, Dud, that's true."
I think it's possible that the word "King" was used as a tease, but it could also be a double-bluff. I was thinking of what she could be trying to indicate, either truthfully or teasingly, with the use of that word, and I thought it might be this: if the two boys are related to one another through the prophecy, and the marked one is referred to as the "King," what does that make the one who possibly was ALMOST King? A prince???? Could this be a clue that Neville is the HBP? If the Neville portion of RPS's Long Theory About Harry's Family is true, that could be it exactly. EDIT: I have just finished reading the JKR website thread, and I see I wasn't the first to see that possibility. Ah well, that's what I get for going out of town when the poll question was answered.
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Gina R Snape - May 18, 2005 7:10 am (#573 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Mmmmmmmm, Count Chocula.
I don't think we're going to have the exact same issues as OOTP with Voldemort trying to possess Harry. But I do foresee them trying to use each other to see what the other side is up to. Instead of shutting him out, Harry may want to try and tune in to find things out in benefit of the Order, if he can do so undetected.
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Betelgeuse Black - May 18, 2005 8:00 am (#574 of 1448)
Steve,
I don't think Voldy will possess Harry. He will try to trick him again if he gets the opportunity; hence, the need for occlumency.
Betelgeuse
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Steve Newton - May 18, 2005 8:04 am (#575 of 1448)
Librarian
Maybe, but, now that Harry knows the situation I think that both sides will be playing the game. I think that Harry is smarter, and stronger.
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Tomoé - May 18, 2005 8:49 am (#576 of 1448)
Back in business
I don't think Occulumency is still relevant, the failed curse opened a "window" across their mind and I don't think anything could close it off. Now, legilimency could be useful, Harry should be able to get stuff from Voldemort. I'm not sure if he'll need Legilimency lesson or if I'll get it by himself, but that ability will become important in the last two books.
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Liz Mann - May 18, 2005 9:50 am (#577 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think the word 'king' was just a reference to Harry's status in the wizarding world as a result of the prophecy. It's a well-known fact that celebrities have an awful lot of status and influence, perhaps more so even than polititians.
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vball man - May 18, 2005 10:50 am (#578 of 1448)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
I would lean toward saying that JKR's answer on Neville points away from the idea that Neville is HBP. Neville will not be king - so he is not now prince.
Harry will be king. Is "king" to be taken in the same sense that "prince" is in HBP? I dunno.
JKR's comments don't rule much out.
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GryffEndora - May 18, 2005 11:31 am (#579 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I agree with those who think Occlumancy and Legillimancy will be important to Harry in the upcoming books. This window is open and Harry needs to learn how to close it, shutter it & screen it. He needs to know when to not let anything out, when to let a trickle in and when to filter information through it. This magical tool may be the key but if Harry cannot manipulate and control it in the same way that LV can he is at a disadvantage. As Snape tried to teach him in OotP, Harry need Occlumancy lessons to learn to control and hide his emotions from LV. I just don't think Snape will be teaching him any longer.
librarian314 - Interesting point on the honorifics. As for weather or not the HBP is good or bad I don't know. The Stone was benign, (good if used for good, bad if used for bad), the Chamber was the home of a dark creature in the control of a dark wizard so it was bad, The Prisoner was not bad but we spent most of PoA thinking he was, the Goblet was also a benign object, (Fake Moody's misuse of the object led to Harry's peril but the Goblet it self was not an evil thing), The Order is definately good. I guess the HBP could then either be good, bad or neutral. Thank you for pointing this out, I guess I hadn't realized many of us are thinking the HBP must be good. I guess the fact that they are a Half-Blood and LV is for Pure Bloods is the reason many of us have assumed that LV and HBP will not be on the same side, but as we saw with Umbrage, just because you are not a Death Eater doesn't necessarily mean you are not EVIL.
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Molly Fox - May 18, 2005 3:56 pm (#580 of 1448)
Does anyone else notice what seems to be part of the Dark Mark on the binding of the Deluxe Edition cover? It's pretty big if that's what it is. Can anyone else see it?
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GryffEndora - May 18, 2005 4:16 pm (#581 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Now that you mention it I do see something near the bottom of the binding on the deluxe edition that is the correct shape to be the lower right portion of the dark mark. It is not the same as the sparkly dark mark on the stand up, this would have to be a filled in skull with a snake image, it would also be wrapping around from the back cover. There does seem to be spaces that could be an eye hole and a mouth area, but maybe it is the power of suggestion. However, this could also be tree bark or vines. Either way, nice catch.
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mike miller - May 18, 2005 4:57 pm (#582 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
The comment by JKR referring to the "magical window into Voldemort's mind" caught my attention also. I had posted some time ago that I think Harry will place something in Voldemort's mind that will lead to Harry having the upper hand in their final confrontation. Turnabout is fair play after all.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 19, 2005 6:00 pm (#583 of 1448)
I really like the idea of Harry placing something into Voldemort's head. He will have to do it carefully. Voldemort always knows when someone is lying. I think the prophecy will still need to be a guarded secret. Harry will have to learn to guard his thoughts from Voldemort. Neville is very loyal to Harry. It will be interesting to see how he reacts to finding out the prophecy. LPO
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Liz Mann - May 20, 2005 11:59 am (#584 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Voldemort always knows when someone is lying.
Except when someone can do Occlumency which Harry is learning. Maybe that's the real reason J.K. wanted him to learn it.
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mike miller - May 20, 2005 12:34 pm (#585 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Harry was "inside" Voldemort's mind for some time without him being aware of the intrusion (all of the time prior to the attack on Arthur). It may be that the nature of the connection allows for "subtle" interaction, like simply seeing what the other sees, without the knowledge or awareness of the other. On the other hand, Dumbledore seems less concerned about what Harry knows after Voldemort's possession of Harry in the MOM.
Voldemort tends to be short-sighted, even all the way back to the rash act of trying to kill young Harry. Dumbledore may think that Voldemort will "stay out" of Harry's mind due to a combination of the possession experience and Harry's awareness of how Voldemort has used him. Since Voldemort has chosen to stop the connection, he thinks Harry will do the same. Voldemort's short-sightedness could leave the "window" open for Harry.
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Liz Mann - May 20, 2005 2:26 pm (#586 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
If Voldemort is a legilimens, isn't it possible he's an occlumens as well? If he knows Harry could get into his mind, even if he's not going to try it the other way round, he might block his own mind off.
You're right about Voldemort being short sighted though. He's proved that on several occasions. With the incident when Harry was a baby, he didn't realise what would happen because he underestimates love, since he doesn't understand it. It's understandable. Subjects you know very little about you're not really going to think about or put much faith in. His mistakes in the Chamber and the graveyard were the stupidest. I mean, in the Chamber Riddle was standing there just watching as Fawkes cried on the wound and it took aaaaages for him to realise! "Do you see what he's doing, Potter? He's crying." "Of course... healing powers... I forgot." Forgot!
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Blaise Zabini - May 21, 2005 12:57 pm (#587 of 1448)
Cover Art Revelance to Events in Books
I was looking over the jackets of the first five Harry Potter books and realized something. On every cover, an obstacle Harry faced in the book was shown.
Cover of first book: Fluffy Cover of second book: Snakes Cover of third book: Dementors Cover of fourth book: Many of the obstacles faced during triwizard tournament-->dragon's egg for example Cover of fifth book: Death Eaters-->Lucius Malfoy for example
Now, based upon this information, it is possible that the penseive is something Harry has to deal with. Though there can be an obstacle on the back of the book, I still believe it would be the penseive. I am not sure how, but if anyone knows, please give me your advice!
-->I'd also like to know who the lady is on the inside of the flap of the first book behind the curtain.
Note: I used the American versions of the books when making my hypothesis.
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Finn BV - May 21, 2005 12:57 pm (#588 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Nice theory, Blaise. It probably is, but can we be sure that that's a Pensieve on the cover of HBP? It could be some newly introduced object. Anyway, I dothink it's a Pensieve, so: as conjectured numerous other places, I think DD could show Harry what happened "that night" at Godric's Hollow. Very interesting speculation, though.
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frogface - May 21, 2005 3:08 pm (#589 of 1448)
Very interesting. Also looking at the UK version we see Harry and Dumbledore in what looks like quite a scary situation. Dumbledore looks really really angry and/or scared and has his wand shooting out a jet of fire. Whatever they are facing must deffinatly be an obstacle if ever there was one.
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Madam Pince - May 21, 2005 3:12 pm (#590 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Good question about who the person is behind the curtain on the inside front flap of "Sorceror's Stone," Blaise. I've often wondered that myself. I never thought of it as being a lady, but you may be right. The hand looks sort of greenish to me, and the nails look long and yellowed, which is sort of yucky, isn't it? I just don't know.
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mooncalf - May 21, 2005 3:42 pm (#591 of 1448)
Maybe it's just a matter of interpretation, but I don't see any Death Eaters on the cover of the fifth book. Of course, that wouldn't mess up your theory, Blaise. The circular room could certainly be considered an obstacle.
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Miriam Huber - May 22, 2005 4:21 am (#592 of 1448)
Well, what about combining the three covers:
Harry is reading the old potion making book so intently that he stumbles on the Pillar of Storé on which the pensieve is placed. The pensieve falls and bursts in a lot of flames (connection to Fawkes?) and Dumbledore arrives just in time to help Harry putting the flames out by magic?
Sorry, but I feel like I need book 6 most desperately, I am running short of really good things to discuss (don´t want to hurt anyone and talking not about this thread in particular but the forum in general - including my posts! - but aren´t our discussions getting more and more far-fetched?)
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Netherlandic - May 22, 2005 5:21 am (#593 of 1448)
I have a nice subject for discussing, Miriam, though I am not certain on which thread it belongs and perhaps it has already been discussed. But I think I know how the order communicates. I shall post it sometimes at the "right" tread.
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So Sirius - May 22, 2005 9:52 am (#594 of 1448)
Regarding this new book cover; to me it looks like they're in a forest. If I had to guess, I'd say Grawp has either escaped or done something to cause worry and perhaps Harry has brought Dumbledore out to find him. Maybe they're off to save Hagger.
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Regan of Gong - May 23, 2005 12:09 am (#595 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Ahhhh, good thought. But it wouldn't be really hard to find Grawp, let alone lose him. Just follow the trail of mindless destruction...
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Veritaserum - May 23, 2005 3:13 pm (#596 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Netherlandic, the "Order of the Phoenix" thread would be the perfect place to put your theory, unless it has some other crazy connections to things.
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GryffEndora - May 23, 2005 3:20 pm (#597 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Arthur Levine the Scholastic editor of HBP gave the name of a new character in HBP today on CNN. I read this in an article on the Leaky Cauldron news page. The name is in white => McLeggen.
I didn't have any luck finding anything about the meaning of the name but I probably didn't try hard enough.
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S.E. Jones - May 23, 2005 7:07 pm (#598 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Here's where she mentioned the name before:
Edinburgh Book Festival; August 2004:
Q: How do you think of all the names, like Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs?
A: Those names all came out of the creatures that they turned into. I had a lot of fun with those. Wormtail was the most difficult one. My sister loathes rats and her problem with them is their tails, so that is what gave me the idea. You actually know how I get some names because I stole my Mum’s maiden name, didn’t I? You have to be careful if you get friendly with me because you tend to turn up in my books, and if you offend me, you often turn up as nasty characters. I found the name McClaggan the other day, which I think is a great name. There is a McClaggan in book six because I thought it is a surname that is too good to waste.
This transcript can be found on her site under the 'News' section.
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GryffEndora - May 23, 2005 7:09 pm (#599 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Thanks S.E. Jones. I think the CNN Transcript has the spelling different and that is why I had trouble finding it on quick quotes.
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Liz Mann - May 24, 2005 10:26 am (#600 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Uh oh. It is being reported by The Sun newspaper (British tabloid notorious for printing rubbish), as well as other sources, are saying that there has been a dramatic increase in people placing large bets in the bookies that a certain character (who I will not name) will die in this book. And all these bets are coming from the town the book is being printed in! Which suggests that someone might have leaked the book content! Honestly, some people!
And now Mugglenet are saying that there has also been a large increase in people (presumably from the same area) betting on a particular character being the HBP.
Leaky and Mugglenet are both reporting on it, but don't follow their links to the article unless you're prepared for a HUGE POSSIBLE SPOILER!!
Unfortunately, I first heard about it from mum who saw the paper in the shops and she told me the character name. I must rememeber to reproach her about that later. But I don't know who the rumoured HBP is.
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Grindylow - May 24, 2005 10:37 am (#601 of 1448)
I hope if someone did leak the story, they find out who they are and prosecute! I cannot wait to get the book in my hands to read, but I would NOT want it that way. Some PEOPLE....!
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So Sirius - May 24, 2005 11:08 am (#602 of 1448)
I do believe it to be true. It's too much of a coincidence that the same town that prints the books would happen to make these wagers. That being said, this person whom they've named would make me very sad, should he die, but it wouldn't be a huge surprise. And given that I believe this leak to be true, my new theory on who the HBP is would be this person they've leaked.
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Grindylow - May 24, 2005 11:10 am (#603 of 1448)
Very Sirius...I don't think it is true either. However, the other part of that just might be..........
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applepie - May 24, 2005 11:15 am (#604 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I am very much hoping that it will not be true. It is soooooo coincidental though. I cannot see how I would endure that loss.
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Grindylow - May 24, 2005 11:16 am (#605 of 1448)
I agree totally applepie.......
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Liz Mann - May 24, 2005 11:32 am (#606 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Mugglenet are now saying that they've received a message from Bloomsbury stating, and I quote:
J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.
We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.
While they're not saying straight out that it's not true, it's still a comfort.
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Grindylow - May 24, 2005 11:43 am (#607 of 1448)
Thanks Liz. That helps A LOT!
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Hollywand - May 24, 2005 1:01 pm (#608 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Book Six, completely manufactured by Gob Lynns alone!
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Finn BV - May 24, 2005 1:22 pm (#609 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I would think that booksellers in the publishing town would want to say that they had read the manuscripts and talk about this character dying just because it is more believable than somebody, say, who lives in Los Angeles and is betting. Obviously, booksellers there have "more" access to the manuscript (although hardly more than 0%) than those living else where, so their purpose was very likely to scare all of you that - because they live there - they had read it. If you read the Steve Newton, "Who will die in books 6/7?" #, 20 Jun 2004 11:34 am thread, you will see that I personally do not believe this character will die until at least Book 7. Can you imagine a whole year without this person? That would be dreadful.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 24, 2005 1:49 pm (#610 of 1448)
Thanks Liz for that update. I feel a little better now. The person rumoured to have died was also my candidate for HBP.
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Suspero - May 24, 2005 2:12 pm (#611 of 1448)
Professor
Tish-tosh, as they say. I wouldn't believe it. BUT... I often wonder about the whole phoenix thing... hmmm... Could a human be able to do what a phoenix does?
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MickeyCee3948 - May 24, 2005 5:00 pm (#612 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
For those of you who may not be the wagering sort. Please take heart that a common ruse of serious better's is to run down the odds on some candidates in order to improve the odds on others.
I have read both of the referenced articles and find neither very likely or authentic. But that is just my 2 knuts.
Mickey
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bella - May 24, 2005 7:12 pm (#613 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I think it is very likely that the people placing the bets are going to lose a lot of money. While in some regards I suppose the rumoured two make sense,I can also certainly see it being started simply for the sake of stirring things up. And even if it does turn out to be true, we still haven't really learned all that much. To me it doesn't matter as much who it is regarding, but why.
About the deluxe cover: does it look like there are animals in the bottom right corner or am I just seeing things?
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Jo S - May 25, 2005 3:38 am (#614 of 1448)
OK so I haven't posted for a little while (full time work and a 5 month daughter take time), but last night I had an epiphany (maybe
) Please excuse me if someone else has mentioned this - I did try to scan the 200 posts since I last logged on.
I think the half blood prince is Zacharias Smith. I have been reading through OoP,for about the 12th time and still cannot work out why Zacharias needed to be mentioned in so much detail. Let me explain...
In the Hogs Head when they talk about forming the DA, all the students are mentioned by either name or description. The only 3 he didn't know by name were Cho's friend Mariette, who is described as mistrustful (pertinent later as she betrays the DA), Susan Bones (talking about corporeal patronuses), and Zacharias. Zacharias is described as a tall skinny boy with an upturned nose who plays on Hufflepuff's quidditch tea.
We are then introduced to Zacharias when he asks Harry to "prove" that Voldemort is back. We are given the impression that he is rather rude. Later he is described as dismissive and aggressive. Later still in the chapter he asks Harry " are you trying to weasel out of showing us any of this stuff". Ron, Fred and George, all confront him over his manner toward Harry and Zacharias then quitens but continues to be agressive in stance (he folds his arms and says nothing). At the end of the meeting Zacharias is named as the last member to sign the parchment Hermione hand around.
At this point I cant work out why Zacharias would be so obvious in the story. As a new character he seems to serve no purpose. Any of the other existing characters could have been used to bring up the issues over Harry's credibility.
At the end of the chapter Hermione explains that Zacharias overheard her talking about forming the DA to Ernie and Hannah, and seemed really interested. Given his behaviour throughout the meeting, this "interest" is odd. As you go throughout the book, Zacharias again stands out in DA meetings as less than enthusiastic (which is odd as he is risking alot to attend). After the meeting just before Christmas, Zacharias isn't mentioned again, although many of the other DA members are.
Based on all this,I think Zacharias smith is the half blood prince because he is mentioned several times and in more detail than other characters in the scene. Its as though JKR is setting him up for future books (such as sirius being mentioned briefly in Philosophers Stone). Yet he does not really play a significant role in OoP, and in many ways the details given about him are superfluous to the story.
I also think his attitude which comes across as supercilious and self centered (he wouldn't have bothered turning up to the Christmas DA meeting if he knew it was only revision) may be the attitude of someone who is used to being waited on and thought of as important such as a prince. Top this with his behaviour towards Harry which seems bordering on jealousy.
If Zacharias were a half blood it might explain why he is keen to join the DA despite his apparent distaste for Harry as it's leader. As a prince and a halfblood he would be a big target for Voldemort.
Sorry this is such an essay... I would love to hear peoples thoughts
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Regan of Gong - May 25, 2005 4:12 am (#615 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Meh, it's all speculation. I was very bad and read the article, but there's probably going to be more guessing on the identity of the HBP in the town where it is being printed. Anyway, I've always thought of the HBP as being either a new character or a character only mentioned in passing.
Still, I'm all for a life sentence in Azkaban to anyone who did leak ANYTHING!
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Chard11 - May 25, 2005 4:35 am (#616 of 1448)
I think the half-blood prince will be Hagrid. His mother was a giantess, he played a very important part of the story in the Chamber of Secrets and he has in important mission in trying to befriend the giant population before Voldemort does. All of these reasons lead me to believe he is very important and therefore could be the Half-Blood Prince.
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Joanne R. Reid - May 25, 2005 6:25 am (#617 of 1448)
Hi,
I just looked at the rumors. Fortunately, they're nothing new to us. We've speculated endlessly on who might die in Books 6 & 7. We've speculated that every character, both human and non-human is the HBP. We've tried to justify our reasons, with greater or lesser success.
So, are we surprised at these latest rumors? NO!
What is disturbing the the betting. The sum of L50 is a chunk of change. One of two things can account for it. First, they really do have inside information. Second, this is one of those rumors that takes on a life of its own. Either way, I will wait for confirmation.
On July 16, I will obtain my copy of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. I will hibernate for however long it takes to read the entire book. Then, and only then, will I know who lived, who died and who is the Half-Blood Prince.
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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Finn BV - May 25, 2005 7:21 am (#618 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I have to be brief, but I have said this before, ages of posts ago. I think we can eliminate numerous characters as the HBP. They haven't had enough significance in the book and they can't suddenly boost their character status. That is one reason why I do not think Zacharias Smith can be the HBP. We know him as a rude character from the DA, just somebody to fulfill an 'annoying character' spot. Jo S, I know that you mention that because he hasn't been mentioned a lot he will be set up, but he is just too unimportant - as I said, just a stereotype character spot filler - to suddenly become the title character of the book. Sirius was mentioned in PS/SS and became the title character of the third book, but truthfully I didn't remember him when I read PoA! Only when I went back and reread PS/SS did I make the connection. I think the number of times ZS has been mentioned ruins his chances. Sorry, I have to go now but I'll definitely continue the list of people who can be eliminated later on.
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hells456 - May 25, 2005 8:14 am (#619 of 1448)
I read the article in the Guardian newspaper, and they also said that parts of HBP are being printed in Germany. This is one of the security measures they have put in place to prevent leaks after Sirius' name was leaked pre-OotP. I think that such a big spoiler would be one of the parts printed there.
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mooncalf - May 25, 2005 11:31 am (#620 of 1448)
I thought that Zacharias Smith was given prominence in that one chapter as sort of a personification of the attitudes that Harry has had to put up with since he returned to school. He represents all the articles in the Daily Prophet, all the rumour-mongerers - all the people who don't know Harry who are saying terrible things about him.
And I hope that you're wrong, Jo S., about his being the half-blood Prince; he's just too annoying! :-)
And I refuse to read the rumours. If my favorite characters are going to be killed off, I choose to remain in denial as long as possible!
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Netherlandic - May 25, 2005 12:31 pm (#621 of 1448)
About those bets: I "bet" the bookmakers set this up and have earned quite a lot of money so don't waste your knuts on them!
About Zacharias Smith: quite a dull surname for a prince...
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Veritaserum - Apr 25, 2005 10:18 pm (#622 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Mooncalf, I agree with you about Z. Smith.
I haven't read the rumors yet (I'm amazed at my self-control), but from what you all are saying it doesn't sound like a big shocker. I mean, we all know that major characters are going to die.
Since JKR said books 6 and 7 are like one book split into two, I wonder if she would pull an extreme cliffhanger at the end of HBP and leave us not knowing who lived or died...
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applepie - May 25, 2005 1:31 pm (#623 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
That would be absolute torture. She can't be that cruel..... (someone please reassure me)
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WeasleyKing - May 25, 2005 1:32 pm (#624 of 1448)
I think we will be ready for book seven the second we have finished the last chapter of HBP. I do think it is likly that the HBP may be one of the unfortunate characters to whome will not make it that far. As for the rumor going around about who one of those characters may be, if I were a gambler and worked in that book factory, it would be clever of me to start a rumor and fan the flames of that rumer making it the favorite. That should up the prize money on the long shots. Or I'm in denial...
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Netherlandic - May 25, 2005 1:33 pm (#625 of 1448)
Precisely
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Liz Mann - May 25, 2005 1:43 pm (#626 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Actually, the odds on this particular character dying at the moment are now 1-5, which means that these 'thousands' of people betting won't win very much. So if someone did leak it the people they told are not going to be very pleased that they told so many.
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Choices - May 25, 2005 5:49 pm (#627 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Well, I confess I have no self-control and I hate not knowing stuff, so I read the article. The person who is supposed to die is the one I have thought all along would die in book 6, so that was no big shocker. The person they bet was the HBP just doesn't make sense to me. I like this character, but I have always thought the HBP would be someone who really makes a big impact on the story, someone who would help Harry tremendously in his preparation for Voldemort and the big battle.....and I just don't see how this character is going to do that unless there is something really special about him that we don't know about. He's been a lovely background character, but I can't see him becoming important enough to have a whole book named for him.
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Tomoé - May 25, 2005 6:10 pm (#628 of 1448)
Back in business
About the rumoured death, well, it has been my bet since I came to this forum, so I won't be surprised if that person get toasted (which doesn't mean I won't cry my eyes out). Did those people have secret information, were they misled or did one of the guy there had strong points that convinced is neirboors, parents and friends? We can only guess, we may never know ...
About Zacharias Smith, the main fonction of Zacharias in book 5 was to be so negative and prohiminant that we overlooked Marietta's behavior. He appeared for the first time in the Hog's Head and disappeared after Marietta's betrayal. I don't believe he's a self-centered jerk, though, more a very intelligent boy that knows what he wants, wants its money's worth and have a strong critical sense. Take a closer look to this line:
‘You take remidial Potions?’ asked Zacharias Smith superciliously, having cornered Harry in the Entrance Hall after lunch. ‘Good Lord, you must be terrible. Snape doesn’t usually give extra lessons, does he?’ (UK OoP ch.24 p.466)
Who else doubt Harry took remedial potions? No one except the ones who knew he didn't. Zacharias is perfectly able to put two and two together and that will likely be useful in the comming books. He is rude, but that doesn't mean he have outlived his purpose.
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Amilia Smith - May 25, 2005 6:16 pm (#629 of 1448)
About Zacharias Smith: quite a dull surname for a prince...
Oh come, now, it's not that bad. :-)
Seriously, though, that theory is one of the most interesting I have heard recently.
And who knows, maybe Smith is a pseudonym to hide Zacharias's true, royal, recognizable surname.
Mills.
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Choices - May 25, 2005 6:22 pm (#630 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Zacharias or Zechariah was a Hebrew prophet from the 6th century B.C. according to the dictionary. Wonder if that has any meaning for our Zacharias? Will he turn out to make a prophesy?
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Madam Pince - May 25, 2005 9:12 pm (#631 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Bravo, Joanne R. Reid! I agree. We have all speculated so endlessly on who is the HBP, and who will or won't die, that nothing is new to us, and therefore these "potential spoilers" mean no more than any one of our own many speculations. You could just as well call any of our threads "potential spoilers." It's all just rumor until we read it with our own little hairy eyeballs.
And I agree with Choices above as well -- I've long thought the one would happen in this book (at the end, I'm guessing), and the other is just "piffle!" (to borrow a term from Denise.)
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Sticky Glue - May 26, 2005 1:45 am (#632 of 1448)
Is it just me, but whenever I see the name Zacharia Smith, all I can think of is the guy from Lost in Space! You know DR Smith, the evil one that caused them to get lost in the first place.
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Regan of Gong - May 26, 2005 4:52 am (#633 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Oh yeah, thaaaaat movie. Hmmmm, maybe it's just you. Don't worry, I've posted that I think of Count Olaf when I think of what Lord Voldemort will look like in the movies.
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Liz Mann - May 26, 2005 1:47 pm (#634 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
J.K. has posted on her site about that rumour now. She said:
Well, here we go again! The gossip, the non-stories, the ever-wilder speculation... Please remember that allegations of 'leaks' concerning deaths in 'Half-Blood Prince' are very easy to make. Any comment I make on such rumours would be a spoiler, so I'll just repeat: keep those barrels of salt handy.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 26, 2005 7:59 pm (#635 of 1448)
Even though she didn't say yes/no to the "who's going to die" rumour,I think it odd she didn't address the rumour concerning who the HBP is at all.
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bella - May 26, 2005 9:00 pm (#636 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I would think the same applies, "any comment I make on such rumours would be a spoiler". She addresses the issue by not addressing it.
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Gerald Costales - May 31, 2005 6:11 am (#637 of 1448)
Someone posted a question to the monitors if this thread is about Book 6 or who the HBP could be?
I haven't seen any response. But, here is my short list for the HBP
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2. Remus Lupin or Dean Thomas
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3. a new unknown or old seldom mentioned character
Godric may have had a Hier. Book 2 had the Hier of Slytherin. The Hier of Gryffindor storyline will be explored in Book 6. Could the HBP be the Hier of Gryffindor? Don't know.
Both Lupin & Thomas are Half-Bloods. Could either be a Prince?
My choice for an unknown character who could be the HBP would be the new DADA teacher.
Seldom mentioned character ????? There's just too many to have a valid guess. But, a Mr. Smith could be the HBP as easily as anyone else. Do you have to have a different surname to be important in the Series!!!!! Then how about Kingsley Shacklebolt!!!!! On second thought. Why not Shacklebolt for the HBP!!!!! ;-) GC
PS Isn't it July 16th yet!!!!! ;-) GC
PPS I'm keeping any guesses for the HBP to humans. ;-) GC
PPPS But, Dobby would be an interesting choice for the HBP. ;-) GC
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 31, 2005 8:11 pm (#638 of 1448)
GC I'm going with a new or seldom mentioned character. We always get a brand new character or more in each book. I do think it will have something to do with Godric. LPO ps only 45 more days...
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Eponine - Jun 1, 2005 9:03 am (#639 of 1448)
I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but here it is.
Katie Couric is going to be interviewing Jo in two weeks. She will be asking some questions submitted by fans. You can go here to submit a question.
I submitted this question. "Does a Pensieve show an unbiased, omniscient recollection of a memory, or is it affected by the person whose memory it is?"
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Tomoé - Jun 1, 2005 10:56 am (#640 of 1448)
Back in business
Thanks Eponine, I posted "How many girls and boys were made Gryffindors on Harry's year? How many Hufflepuffs, Ravenclaws and Slytherins?"
I know it sounds silly but I'm affraid we will never know if she doesn't answer in an interview.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 1, 2005 11:27 am (#641 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I asked a question about the Malfoy's ancestry.
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Choices - Jun 1, 2005 11:58 am (#642 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
My original question was asked, so I asked if Fawkes originally belonged to Godric Gryffindor.
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Chard11 - Jun 1, 2005 12:59 pm (#643 of 1448)
I think someone should definitely ask a question in relation to the first thing that was posted in The Big Secret in the Chamber of Secrets thread under Theories section. It was posted by Choices on Apr 28, 2005 12:48 pm.
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Netherlandic - Jun 1, 2005 1:13 pm (#644 of 1448)
Yes. Very much so, Chard11. Choices came up with such a fantastic theory.
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KWeldon - Jun 1, 2005 3:38 pm (#645 of 1448)
I used sneaky grammar to ask three different questions about Remus Lupin. C'mon, Katie!!!! Pick me!!
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Finn BV - Jun 1, 2005 3:39 pm (#646 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
LOL, KWeldon. I asked about the Potion Puzzle, if it relates to the DADA teachers. (Thank you, inventor of that theory!) I should probably ask Madam Pince if I can ask about "Was it Snape at Godric's Hollow That Night?" – another of my favorite theories (but of course I like them all ).
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KWeldon - Jun 1, 2005 3:42 pm (#647 of 1448)
fbv807, I'm sure your questions would have provided a wider spectrum of readers with more enlightening answers (not that she is really going to disclose much, you know!) Mine were purely selfish.
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Magical Bex - Jun 1, 2005 4:20 pm (#648 of 1448)
asked about the small silver instrument that Dumbledore produces just after Arthur Weasley is attacked by the snake in OOTP.
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Tomoé - Jun 1, 2005 5:06 pm (#649 of 1448)
Back in business
I used another adress and send three other question:
Was Tom Riddle born in mid-winter?
What is Alice Longbottom's Maiden name?
Who is the witch talking with Diggory, Arthur and Crouch under the Dark Mark? Amelia Bones?
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Suspero - Jun 1, 2005 5:29 pm (#650 of 1448)
Professor
About "Choices" theory in that CoS thread -- very interesting, and thanks "Chard11" for drawing attention to it... but it leads me to a comment on all these theories, which is this:
It seems to me that we never go backward but always forward in JKR's HP books. We never revisit old things, so I can't see going back to the CoS or any new revelation coming from there. I know that we've gone back to the Forbidden Forest, just like we've gone back to Hagrid's cabin and to the Potions classroom, etc., but all of those places, like the Dursleys' house are features of Harry's daily life. I just don't envision returning to the Chamber or to the Hall of Mysteries or to any significant plot-directed site. That's one of the reasons why I think the woods on that book cover must be a new place and not the Forbidden Forest.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I hope if someone did leak the story, they find out who they are and prosecute! I cannot wait to get the book in my hands to read, but I would NOT want it that way. Some PEOPLE....!
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So Sirius - May 24, 2005 11:08 am (#602 of 1448)
I do believe it to be true. It's too much of a coincidence that the same town that prints the books would happen to make these wagers. That being said, this person whom they've named would make me very sad, should he die, but it wouldn't be a huge surprise. And given that I believe this leak to be true, my new theory on who the HBP is would be this person they've leaked.
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Grindylow - May 24, 2005 11:10 am (#603 of 1448)
Very Sirius...I don't think it is true either. However, the other part of that just might be..........
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applepie - May 24, 2005 11:15 am (#604 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I am very much hoping that it will not be true. It is soooooo coincidental though. I cannot see how I would endure that loss.
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Grindylow - May 24, 2005 11:16 am (#605 of 1448)
I agree totally applepie.......
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Liz Mann - May 24, 2005 11:32 am (#606 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Mugglenet are now saying that they've received a message from Bloomsbury stating, and I quote:
J. K. Rowling has mentioned previously, in various situations, that any rumour, unless confirmed by herself personally, or by her publishers which are, but not limited to; Bloomsbury Publishing Plc, Scholastic Trade Books and Raincoast Publishing, is merely a rumour and should be treated as trivial.
We repeat: The security measures in Bungay are sufficient to ensure the prevention of any 'leaks'.
While they're not saying straight out that it's not true, it's still a comfort.
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Grindylow - May 24, 2005 11:43 am (#607 of 1448)
Thanks Liz. That helps A LOT!
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Hollywand - May 24, 2005 1:01 pm (#608 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Book Six, completely manufactured by Gob Lynns alone!
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Finn BV - May 24, 2005 1:22 pm (#609 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I would think that booksellers in the publishing town would want to say that they had read the manuscripts and talk about this character dying just because it is more believable than somebody, say, who lives in Los Angeles and is betting. Obviously, booksellers there have "more" access to the manuscript (although hardly more than 0%) than those living else where, so their purpose was very likely to scare all of you that - because they live there - they had read it. If you read the Steve Newton, "Who will die in books 6/7?" #, 20 Jun 2004 11:34 am thread, you will see that I personally do not believe this character will die until at least Book 7. Can you imagine a whole year without this person? That would be dreadful.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 24, 2005 1:49 pm (#610 of 1448)
Thanks Liz for that update. I feel a little better now. The person rumoured to have died was also my candidate for HBP.
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Suspero - May 24, 2005 2:12 pm (#611 of 1448)
Professor
Tish-tosh, as they say. I wouldn't believe it. BUT... I often wonder about the whole phoenix thing... hmmm... Could a human be able to do what a phoenix does?
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MickeyCee3948 - May 24, 2005 5:00 pm (#612 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
For those of you who may not be the wagering sort. Please take heart that a common ruse of serious better's is to run down the odds on some candidates in order to improve the odds on others.
I have read both of the referenced articles and find neither very likely or authentic. But that is just my 2 knuts.
Mickey
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bella - May 24, 2005 7:12 pm (#613 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I think it is very likely that the people placing the bets are going to lose a lot of money. While in some regards I suppose the rumoured two make sense,I can also certainly see it being started simply for the sake of stirring things up. And even if it does turn out to be true, we still haven't really learned all that much. To me it doesn't matter as much who it is regarding, but why.
About the deluxe cover: does it look like there are animals in the bottom right corner or am I just seeing things?
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Jo S - May 25, 2005 3:38 am (#614 of 1448)
OK so I haven't posted for a little while (full time work and a 5 month daughter take time), but last night I had an epiphany (maybe
) Please excuse me if someone else has mentioned this - I did try to scan the 200 posts since I last logged on. I think the half blood prince is Zacharias Smith. I have been reading through OoP,for about the 12th time and still cannot work out why Zacharias needed to be mentioned in so much detail. Let me explain...
In the Hogs Head when they talk about forming the DA, all the students are mentioned by either name or description. The only 3 he didn't know by name were Cho's friend Mariette, who is described as mistrustful (pertinent later as she betrays the DA), Susan Bones (talking about corporeal patronuses), and Zacharias. Zacharias is described as a tall skinny boy with an upturned nose who plays on Hufflepuff's quidditch tea.
We are then introduced to Zacharias when he asks Harry to "prove" that Voldemort is back. We are given the impression that he is rather rude. Later he is described as dismissive and aggressive. Later still in the chapter he asks Harry " are you trying to weasel out of showing us any of this stuff". Ron, Fred and George, all confront him over his manner toward Harry and Zacharias then quitens but continues to be agressive in stance (he folds his arms and says nothing). At the end of the meeting Zacharias is named as the last member to sign the parchment Hermione hand around.
At this point I cant work out why Zacharias would be so obvious in the story. As a new character he seems to serve no purpose. Any of the other existing characters could have been used to bring up the issues over Harry's credibility.
At the end of the chapter Hermione explains that Zacharias overheard her talking about forming the DA to Ernie and Hannah, and seemed really interested. Given his behaviour throughout the meeting, this "interest" is odd. As you go throughout the book, Zacharias again stands out in DA meetings as less than enthusiastic (which is odd as he is risking alot to attend). After the meeting just before Christmas, Zacharias isn't mentioned again, although many of the other DA members are.
Based on all this,I think Zacharias smith is the half blood prince because he is mentioned several times and in more detail than other characters in the scene. Its as though JKR is setting him up for future books (such as sirius being mentioned briefly in Philosophers Stone). Yet he does not really play a significant role in OoP, and in many ways the details given about him are superfluous to the story.
I also think his attitude which comes across as supercilious and self centered (he wouldn't have bothered turning up to the Christmas DA meeting if he knew it was only revision) may be the attitude of someone who is used to being waited on and thought of as important such as a prince. Top this with his behaviour towards Harry which seems bordering on jealousy.
If Zacharias were a half blood it might explain why he is keen to join the DA despite his apparent distaste for Harry as it's leader. As a prince and a halfblood he would be a big target for Voldemort.
Sorry this is such an essay... I would love to hear peoples thoughts
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Regan of Gong - May 25, 2005 4:12 am (#615 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Meh, it's all speculation. I was very bad and read the article, but there's probably going to be more guessing on the identity of the HBP in the town where it is being printed. Anyway, I've always thought of the HBP as being either a new character or a character only mentioned in passing.
Still, I'm all for a life sentence in Azkaban to anyone who did leak ANYTHING!
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Chard11 - May 25, 2005 4:35 am (#616 of 1448)
I think the half-blood prince will be Hagrid. His mother was a giantess, he played a very important part of the story in the Chamber of Secrets and he has in important mission in trying to befriend the giant population before Voldemort does. All of these reasons lead me to believe he is very important and therefore could be the Half-Blood Prince.
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Joanne R. Reid - May 25, 2005 6:25 am (#617 of 1448)
Hi,
I just looked at the rumors. Fortunately, they're nothing new to us. We've speculated endlessly on who might die in Books 6 & 7. We've speculated that every character, both human and non-human is the HBP. We've tried to justify our reasons, with greater or lesser success.
So, are we surprised at these latest rumors? NO!
What is disturbing the the betting. The sum of L50 is a chunk of change. One of two things can account for it. First, they really do have inside information. Second, this is one of those rumors that takes on a life of its own. Either way, I will wait for confirmation.
On July 16, I will obtain my copy of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. I will hibernate for however long it takes to read the entire book. Then, and only then, will I know who lived, who died and who is the Half-Blood Prince.
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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Finn BV - May 25, 2005 7:21 am (#618 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I have to be brief, but I have said this before, ages of posts ago. I think we can eliminate numerous characters as the HBP. They haven't had enough significance in the book and they can't suddenly boost their character status. That is one reason why I do not think Zacharias Smith can be the HBP. We know him as a rude character from the DA, just somebody to fulfill an 'annoying character' spot. Jo S, I know that you mention that because he hasn't been mentioned a lot he will be set up, but he is just too unimportant - as I said, just a stereotype character spot filler - to suddenly become the title character of the book. Sirius was mentioned in PS/SS and became the title character of the third book, but truthfully I didn't remember him when I read PoA! Only when I went back and reread PS/SS did I make the connection. I think the number of times ZS has been mentioned ruins his chances. Sorry, I have to go now but I'll definitely continue the list of people who can be eliminated later on.
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hells456 - May 25, 2005 8:14 am (#619 of 1448)
I read the article in the Guardian newspaper, and they also said that parts of HBP are being printed in Germany. This is one of the security measures they have put in place to prevent leaks after Sirius' name was leaked pre-OotP. I think that such a big spoiler would be one of the parts printed there.
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mooncalf - May 25, 2005 11:31 am (#620 of 1448)
I thought that Zacharias Smith was given prominence in that one chapter as sort of a personification of the attitudes that Harry has had to put up with since he returned to school. He represents all the articles in the Daily Prophet, all the rumour-mongerers - all the people who don't know Harry who are saying terrible things about him.
And I hope that you're wrong, Jo S., about his being the half-blood Prince; he's just too annoying! :-)
And I refuse to read the rumours. If my favorite characters are going to be killed off, I choose to remain in denial as long as possible!
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Netherlandic - May 25, 2005 12:31 pm (#621 of 1448)
About those bets: I "bet" the bookmakers set this up and have earned quite a lot of money so don't waste your knuts on them!
About Zacharias Smith: quite a dull surname for a prince...
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Veritaserum - Apr 25, 2005 10:18 pm (#622 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Mooncalf, I agree with you about Z. Smith.
I haven't read the rumors yet (I'm amazed at my self-control), but from what you all are saying it doesn't sound like a big shocker. I mean, we all know that major characters are going to die.
Since JKR said books 6 and 7 are like one book split into two, I wonder if she would pull an extreme cliffhanger at the end of HBP and leave us not knowing who lived or died...
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applepie - May 25, 2005 1:31 pm (#623 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
That would be absolute torture. She can't be that cruel..... (someone please reassure me)
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WeasleyKing - May 25, 2005 1:32 pm (#624 of 1448)
I think we will be ready for book seven the second we have finished the last chapter of HBP. I do think it is likly that the HBP may be one of the unfortunate characters to whome will not make it that far. As for the rumor going around about who one of those characters may be, if I were a gambler and worked in that book factory, it would be clever of me to start a rumor and fan the flames of that rumer making it the favorite. That should up the prize money on the long shots. Or I'm in denial...
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Netherlandic - May 25, 2005 1:33 pm (#625 of 1448)
Precisely
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Liz Mann - May 25, 2005 1:43 pm (#626 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Actually, the odds on this particular character dying at the moment are now 1-5, which means that these 'thousands' of people betting won't win very much. So if someone did leak it the people they told are not going to be very pleased that they told so many.
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Choices - May 25, 2005 5:49 pm (#627 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Well, I confess I have no self-control and I hate not knowing stuff, so I read the article. The person who is supposed to die is the one I have thought all along would die in book 6, so that was no big shocker. The person they bet was the HBP just doesn't make sense to me. I like this character, but I have always thought the HBP would be someone who really makes a big impact on the story, someone who would help Harry tremendously in his preparation for Voldemort and the big battle.....and I just don't see how this character is going to do that unless there is something really special about him that we don't know about. He's been a lovely background character, but I can't see him becoming important enough to have a whole book named for him.
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Tomoé - May 25, 2005 6:10 pm (#628 of 1448)
Back in business
About the rumoured death, well, it has been my bet since I came to this forum, so I won't be surprised if that person get toasted (which doesn't mean I won't cry my eyes out). Did those people have secret information, were they misled or did one of the guy there had strong points that convinced is neirboors, parents and friends? We can only guess, we may never know ...
About Zacharias Smith, the main fonction of Zacharias in book 5 was to be so negative and prohiminant that we overlooked Marietta's behavior. He appeared for the first time in the Hog's Head and disappeared after Marietta's betrayal. I don't believe he's a self-centered jerk, though, more a very intelligent boy that knows what he wants, wants its money's worth and have a strong critical sense. Take a closer look to this line:
‘You take remidial Potions?’ asked Zacharias Smith superciliously, having cornered Harry in the Entrance Hall after lunch. ‘Good Lord, you must be terrible. Snape doesn’t usually give extra lessons, does he?’ (UK OoP ch.24 p.466)
Who else doubt Harry took remedial potions? No one except the ones who knew he didn't. Zacharias is perfectly able to put two and two together and that will likely be useful in the comming books. He is rude, but that doesn't mean he have outlived his purpose.
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Amilia Smith - May 25, 2005 6:16 pm (#629 of 1448)
About Zacharias Smith: quite a dull surname for a prince...
Oh come, now, it's not that bad. :-)
Seriously, though, that theory is one of the most interesting I have heard recently.
And who knows, maybe Smith is a pseudonym to hide Zacharias's true, royal, recognizable surname.
Mills.
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Choices - May 25, 2005 6:22 pm (#630 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Zacharias or Zechariah was a Hebrew prophet from the 6th century B.C. according to the dictionary. Wonder if that has any meaning for our Zacharias? Will he turn out to make a prophesy?
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Madam Pince - May 25, 2005 9:12 pm (#631 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Bravo, Joanne R. Reid! I agree. We have all speculated so endlessly on who is the HBP, and who will or won't die, that nothing is new to us, and therefore these "potential spoilers" mean no more than any one of our own many speculations. You could just as well call any of our threads "potential spoilers." It's all just rumor until we read it with our own little hairy eyeballs.
And I agree with Choices above as well -- I've long thought the one would happen in this book (at the end, I'm guessing), and the other is just "piffle!" (to borrow a term from Denise.)
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Sticky Glue - May 26, 2005 1:45 am (#632 of 1448)
Is it just me, but whenever I see the name Zacharia Smith, all I can think of is the guy from Lost in Space! You know DR Smith, the evil one that caused them to get lost in the first place.
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Regan of Gong - May 26, 2005 4:52 am (#633 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Oh yeah, thaaaaat movie. Hmmmm, maybe it's just you. Don't worry, I've posted that I think of Count Olaf when I think of what Lord Voldemort will look like in the movies.
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Liz Mann - May 26, 2005 1:47 pm (#634 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
J.K. has posted on her site about that rumour now. She said:
Well, here we go again! The gossip, the non-stories, the ever-wilder speculation... Please remember that allegations of 'leaks' concerning deaths in 'Half-Blood Prince' are very easy to make. Any comment I make on such rumours would be a spoiler, so I'll just repeat: keep those barrels of salt handy.
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Madame Pomfrey - May 26, 2005 7:59 pm (#635 of 1448)
Even though she didn't say yes/no to the "who's going to die" rumour,I think it odd she didn't address the rumour concerning who the HBP is at all.
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bella - May 26, 2005 9:00 pm (#636 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I would think the same applies, "any comment I make on such rumours would be a spoiler". She addresses the issue by not addressing it.
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Gerald Costales - May 31, 2005 6:11 am (#637 of 1448)
Someone posted a question to the monitors if this thread is about Book 6 or who the HBP could be?
I haven't seen any response. But, here is my short list for the HBP
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. Godric Gryffindor
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2. Remus Lupin or Dean Thomas
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3. a new unknown or old seldom mentioned character
Godric may have had a Hier. Book 2 had the Hier of Slytherin. The Hier of Gryffindor storyline will be explored in Book 6. Could the HBP be the Hier of Gryffindor? Don't know.
Both Lupin & Thomas are Half-Bloods. Could either be a Prince?
My choice for an unknown character who could be the HBP would be the new DADA teacher.
Seldom mentioned character ????? There's just too many to have a valid guess. But, a Mr. Smith could be the HBP as easily as anyone else. Do you have to have a different surname to be important in the Series!!!!! Then how about Kingsley Shacklebolt!!!!! On second thought. Why not Shacklebolt for the HBP!!!!! ;-) GC
PS Isn't it July 16th yet!!!!! ;-) GC
PPS I'm keeping any guesses for the HBP to humans. ;-) GC
PPPS But, Dobby would be an interesting choice for the HBP. ;-) GC
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Ludicrous Patents Office - May 31, 2005 8:11 pm (#638 of 1448)
GC I'm going with a new or seldom mentioned character. We always get a brand new character or more in each book. I do think it will have something to do with Godric. LPO ps only 45 more days...
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Eponine - Jun 1, 2005 9:03 am (#639 of 1448)
I wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but here it is.
Katie Couric is going to be interviewing Jo in two weeks. She will be asking some questions submitted by fans. You can go here to submit a question.
I submitted this question. "Does a Pensieve show an unbiased, omniscient recollection of a memory, or is it affected by the person whose memory it is?"
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Tomoé - Jun 1, 2005 10:56 am (#640 of 1448)
Back in business
Thanks Eponine, I posted "How many girls and boys were made Gryffindors on Harry's year? How many Hufflepuffs, Ravenclaws and Slytherins?"
I know it sounds silly but I'm affraid we will never know if she doesn't answer in an interview.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 1, 2005 11:27 am (#641 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I asked a question about the Malfoy's ancestry.
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Choices - Jun 1, 2005 11:58 am (#642 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
My original question was asked, so I asked if Fawkes originally belonged to Godric Gryffindor.
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Chard11 - Jun 1, 2005 12:59 pm (#643 of 1448)
I think someone should definitely ask a question in relation to the first thing that was posted in The Big Secret in the Chamber of Secrets thread under Theories section. It was posted by Choices on Apr 28, 2005 12:48 pm.
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Netherlandic - Jun 1, 2005 1:13 pm (#644 of 1448)
Yes. Very much so, Chard11. Choices came up with such a fantastic theory.
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KWeldon - Jun 1, 2005 3:38 pm (#645 of 1448)
I used sneaky grammar to ask three different questions about Remus Lupin. C'mon, Katie!!!! Pick me!!
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Finn BV - Jun 1, 2005 3:39 pm (#646 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
LOL, KWeldon. I asked about the Potion Puzzle, if it relates to the DADA teachers. (Thank you, inventor of that theory!) I should probably ask Madam Pince if I can ask about "Was it Snape at Godric's Hollow That Night?" – another of my favorite theories (but of course I like them all ).
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KWeldon - Jun 1, 2005 3:42 pm (#647 of 1448)
fbv807, I'm sure your questions would have provided a wider spectrum of readers with more enlightening answers (not that she is really going to disclose much, you know!) Mine were purely selfish.
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Magical Bex - Jun 1, 2005 4:20 pm (#648 of 1448)
asked about the small silver instrument that Dumbledore produces just after Arthur Weasley is attacked by the snake in OOTP.
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Tomoé - Jun 1, 2005 5:06 pm (#649 of 1448)
Back in business
I used another adress and send three other question:
Was Tom Riddle born in mid-winter?
What is Alice Longbottom's Maiden name?
Who is the witch talking with Diggory, Arthur and Crouch under the Dark Mark? Amelia Bones?
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Suspero - Jun 1, 2005 5:29 pm (#650 of 1448)
Professor
About "Choices" theory in that CoS thread -- very interesting, and thanks "Chard11" for drawing attention to it... but it leads me to a comment on all these theories, which is this:
It seems to me that we never go backward but always forward in JKR's HP books. We never revisit old things, so I can't see going back to the CoS or any new revelation coming from there. I know that we've gone back to the Forbidden Forest, just like we've gone back to Hagrid's cabin and to the Potions classroom, etc., but all of those places, like the Dursleys' house are features of Harry's daily life. I just don't envision returning to the Chamber or to the Hall of Mysteries or to any significant plot-directed site. That's one of the reasons why I think the woods on that book cover must be a new place and not the Forbidden Forest.
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Jun 04-Mar 05) (Post 651 to 700)
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Choices - Jun 1, 2005 6:12 pm (#651 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
May I reiterate that the COS theory is not really mine - I was simply relating a theory that I read elsewhere. I just found it so interesting that I wanted to share it and see what others thought about it. I wish I could claim it, but alas, I can't.
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Chemyst - Jun 1, 2005 6:18 pm (#652 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Thanks for the link Eponine. Rather than submit a new question, I just rephrased yours. I figure that if they get enough similar questions dealing with the same topic, they'll be more likely to choose at least one of them.
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Suspero - Jun 1, 2005 7:36 pm (#653 of 1448)
Professor
Hey, "Choices" and everyone else -- I hope I didn't seem negative -- I think that CoS theory is fascinating, if for no other reason than that it shows again what a huge command JKR has of mythology and legends and literature and history. Wow! I think it's fascinating and everyone should go read it.
I sure wish it was midnight on July 15th... *sigh*
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 1, 2005 10:33 pm (#654 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Couldn't resist...asked her if Dumbledore is the giant squid...
...toddles off....
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Madam Pince - Jun 2, 2005 12:18 pm (#655 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Good question, TBE!
fbv, by all means ask her something about Snape at Godric's Hollow! I sort of did.... my question was "Was there anybody else present in the house when Lily and Baby Harry were attacked, besides Voldemort and the two of them?" I figured that would cover James or Snape either one -- hopefully she wouldn't just answer "Yes" or "No" but would say something like "Yes, James was there of course" or even "Interesting question! I'm not going to say!" which would tell us something even though it tells us nothing.
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Miriam Huber - Jun 2, 2005 1:00 pm (#656 of 1448)
Didn´t any of you ask: "How did you invent Harry Potter? Is it true it was on a train?" or "What would you recommend to a kid that wants to become a writer?"
--- only joking!!!
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Tomoé - Jun 2, 2005 1:51 pm (#657 of 1448)
Back in business
I did think of "who is your favorite authors?" and "what are you favorite books?", just to see if she still name the same ones (kidding, of course).
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Finn BV - Jun 2, 2005 2:15 pm (#658 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Thanks, Madam Pince! So, I'm submitting a whole bunch of questions, and here they are:
Does the Potion Puzzle relate to the DADA teachers? (some form of asking that in a roundabout way)
Since we can consider it canon because you wrote it, why does who we think is Voldemort suddenly turn around at Lily's door in the SS movie?
What is Draco's birthday?
Is Dumbledore the giant squid? (I figure that if enough people ask it then she'll have to answer it )
When you say "there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life," does that mean that there will be, that is, in a future book, a character who does magic late in life, or, that there was a character, that we will learn about, who did magic late in life. (See the "Magic Late in Life" thread to understand why I'm asking that )
That's it for now!
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GryffEndora - Jun 2, 2005 3:18 pm (#659 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I asked:
Recently you answered a question on jkrowling.com about Neville and The Prophesy. In your response you said (to paraphrase) Dumbledore does not believe Neville would have had the qualities that have enabled Harry to remain strong and sane throughout all of his many ordeals if Lord Voldemort had chosen to mark Neville instead of Harry. Do you agree with Dumbledore’s belief?
I'm also working on coming up with another question to ask.
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Catherine - Jun 2, 2005 4:59 pm (#660 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Madame Pince, I also asked if anyone else besides Harry, Voldemort, Lily, and James was present when the Potters were murdered.
I submitted several questions, among which was a version of Eponine's "Pensieve" question.
I confess that I also submitted one shipping question: "Do Harry and Pansy ever become romantically involved? Say it ain't so, Jo!"
That might be a wasted question, but I couldn't resist. At least it's better than asking if she really likes chocolate or how many pages the 7th book will be.
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KWeldon - Jun 2, 2005 7:03 pm (#661 of 1448)
I confess that I also submitted one shipping question: "Do Harry and Pansy ever become romantically involved? Say it ain't so, Jo!"
Can you believe I didn't even think of that one? Although I have to say, if she giggles or looks surprised at the question but gives us a cagey answer, I will assume that is a "Yes!".
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Eponine - Jun 2, 2005 7:09 pm (#662 of 1448)
Although I have to say, if she giggles or looks surprised at the question but gives us a cagey answer, I will assume that is a "Yes!".
I prefer to imagine her reaction to that as utter shock and complete bewilderment followed quickly by disgust.
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KWeldon - Jun 2, 2005 7:19 pm (#663 of 1448)
I prefer to imagine her reaction to that as utter shock and complete bewilderment followed quickly by disgust.
With a precedent already set in the series for personality improvement followed by courtship, I doubt that shock, bewilderment, and disgust would be her reaction. But, that's for another thread on another day....
However, it is just the sort of question that talking heads might pick as a throwaway question that JKR would surely quickly and emphatically answer either way. Ignorance must be bliss for them.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 2, 2005 7:24 pm (#664 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I think she would answer that question with something like "I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories..."
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Denise P. - Jun 2, 2005 7:27 pm (#665 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Please remember this is the thread to discuss HBP. If you want to discuss relationships, please take it to the correct thread. Thanks!
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Madam Pince - Jun 2, 2005 9:26 pm (#666 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Catherine, I left James out of my question because I'm not entirely convinced he was there when Lily and Harry were being attacked. Probably so, but possibly he was killed somewhere else and his body was brought there later? Anyway, that was my reasoning behind my question. I'm thinking she won't answer that one on the "Today" show anyway, but maybe her non-answer will be a clue. She probably won't answer it in HBP either. I'll bet we won't find out the complete picture of that night at Godric's Hollow until Book Seven. (Alas, earwax!)
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applepie - Jun 3, 2005 8:25 am (#667 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I submitted two questions, but am not sure she would answer the first one, as it might divulge too mugh information...
I am very interested in Sibyll's "lack of realization" that she has just delivered a prophecy, and wonder if she is able to recall it if questioned? If so, does this have anything to do with why Dumbledore insisted that she stay at Hogwarts when Umbridge dismissed her?
Do all prophecies have a record in the Department of Mysteries, and how are they labeled without someone having to hear it?
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Netherlandic - Jun 3, 2005 10:44 am (#668 of 1448)
I would ask how Snape spies on the Death Eaters. Or ask: what is McGonagalls task in the order?
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Good Evans - Jun 3, 2005 10:46 am (#669 of 1448)
Practically perfect in every way
Applepie - good Q - I woud definitely like that answered.
I haven't settled on a Q yet - but it might be about mirrors
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GryffEndora - Jun 3, 2005 10:53 am (#670 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I asked a second question that probably wont get answered but I asked: What were the inappropriate charms that Aberforth performed on the goat?
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So Sirius - Jun 3, 2005 11:07 am (#671 of 1448)
I won't ask a question, because it won't get picked, but if I was to ask one or two, they would be, which books (yours or other authors) do your children like to read most? And now that you're famous and leaving a huge mark on history for all time, what would you like your legacy to be?
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KWeldon - Jun 3, 2005 11:10 am (#672 of 1448)
TLC is reporting that at least two of the published books were stolen and recovered.
CONSTANT VIGILENCE!!
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Grindylow - Jun 3, 2005 11:55 am (#673 of 1448)
Someone stole two copies of HBP??
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KWeldon - Jun 3, 2005 12:03 pm (#674 of 1448)
Check out The Leaky Cauldron. Apparently even shots had to be fired. Good grief!
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 3, 2005 1:45 pm (#675 of 1448)
Mugglenet reports it was a reporter trying to buy the copies.
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Choices - Jun 3, 2005 6:11 pm (#676 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"a reporter trying to buy the copies....."
Yikes, Rita Skeeter is up to her old tricks. LOL
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Snuffles - Jun 4, 2005 2:30 am (#677 of 1448)
Olivia
The 2 men have been charged with handling stolen goods and weapons offensive. They tried to sell it to 2 UK tabloid papers, namely The Sun and The Mirror who called the police. What fools, if that was me I would have just taken them home and curled up and read the book!!
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Regan of Gong - Jun 4, 2005 3:38 am (#678 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
You wouldn't have! I really would have liked to see you restrain yourself from gloating about it all over the forum.
It was on the news here in Australia as well, I was wondering how long it would take for this to get all over the forum.
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Catherine - Jun 4, 2005 4:40 am (#679 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
It seems like JKR and her attorneys have managed to get an injunction to prevent any leaks about HbP.
Our members need to be sure that they don't post spoilers about HbP on the Forum, especially spoilers that are leaked from unofficial sources.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 4, 2005 4:50 am (#680 of 1448)
For up to date news on the stolen Harry Potter books go to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What I don't like is that the Sun was going to pay for the books and then tell the police they had got them. After reading them and releasing spoilers probably. Why not just get the police involved immediately? The only reason the deal did not get done is that the shots were fired and the police called.
Well done to JKR and her team for getting a stop on any possible spoilers though.
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Ponine - Jun 4, 2005 6:28 am (#681 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I tend to freeze when really important tings (like questions for JKR) come up, but I asked, based on her answer regarding Luna, if Snape has, had or will have a son, and I also asked if Petunia had ever received a acceptance letter from Hogwarts... I you who get to see it!! Sigh... Tell us all about it...
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GryffEndora - Jun 4, 2005 8:29 am (#682 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
What I found to be most damning about The Sun buying the stolen HBP is that they were the same publication that "found a early copy of OotP in a field" and printed spoiler information after turning it in to the police. Sounds mighty fishy and I am thrilled JKR has put a stop to their shenanigans, at least for now.
I should probably throw a few allegedlys in there, so please feel free to insert allegedly where ever it sounds like I have all the facts.
*edit, spelling*
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Phoenix song - Jun 4, 2005 8:52 am (#683 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GryffEndora: I loved your post, and didn't feel the need to assert any allegedlys in at all! I've always found it hilarious that The Sun claimed, with OotP, that they found the copy in a field. Hmmm... Did they say that they found the copy in "Potter's Field"? Undoubtedly, they hoped that the same "Field" could yield another "crop" with the HBP.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Jun 4, 2005 12:45 pm (#684 of 1448)
. . . . . "I've always found it hilarious that The Sun claimed, with OotP, that they found the copy in a field. . . . . ." Phoenix song
I'm reminded of the "Pumpkin Papers".
“On December 2, 1948, HUAC investigators were at the farmhouse of Whittaker Chambers with a subpoena. Chambers led them out of his bucolic home and to a pumpkin patch. There he took the top off of a hollowed-out pumpkin and presented them with film wrapped in wax paper.
Although there were no papers, only film, the treasonous treasure trove would be forever after known as the Pumpkin Papers.”
Source:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. HUAC was the “House Un-American Committee” which was chaired by then Congressman Nixon.
Here's an example a "Tabloid Truth", remember when the tabloids had the news of Michael Jackson marrying Lisa Marie Presley. I know I thought it was a joke but unfortunately it was true. (Just ask Lisa Marie!!!!!)
But the only way I'm going to believe anything about the HBP is when I finally get Book 6 in front of me and read it myself. ;-) GC
PS But if anyone told me Snape was spying on the Order and couldn't be trusted, somehow I'd convince myself to believe it. That greasy git. ;-) GC
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GryffEndora - Jun 4, 2005 1:27 pm (#685 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Asked a couple more questions today.
1. What killed Sirius Black The Veil or Bellatrix' Spell?
2. How are prophesies recorded and how does the Keeper of the Hall of Prophesy listen to them to label them without being hurt by the magical protection?
*edit* Thought of a third, asked 3. Are there more members of the Order of the Phoenix than we've met? Who are they?
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 4, 2005 2:56 pm (#686 of 1448)
Has anyone else thought the Half-Blood Prince (person, not book) might have something to do with Lily Evans' Grandparents?
Aurora xx
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haymoni - Jun 4, 2005 6:21 pm (#687 of 1448)
I asked if Draco would be returning to Hogwarts or if Narcissa would be homeschooling him.
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Regan of Gong - Jun 4, 2005 7:19 pm (#688 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Pictures of HBP book (only the cover) and the Theives at Mugglenet. Hmmmm...sounds like a book title,
HBP and the Theives
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Veritaserum - Jun 4, 2005 8:43 pm (#689 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I asked what the Unspeakables(?) were studying and if it was important to the series. I might ask exactly what is the veil?
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 4, 2005 8:43 pm (#690 of 1448)
What I want to know is if the books are ready and are being stored in a warehouse,why dont they just release them early?
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Stringer - Jun 4, 2005 9:10 pm (#691 of 1448)
I asked if there is a possibility a grim will be haunting a churchyard near Hogwarts. I also asked if the wizard in the fountain at the MOM represents Harry and his ability to united a divided magical community.
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Phoenix song - Jun 4, 2005 9:46 pm (#692 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Has anyone else thought the Half-Blood Prince (person, not book) might have something to do with Lily Evans' Grandparents?" Aurora
Aurora, I think that your question is a good one that shouldn't be overlooked. I do, indeed, think that there is a distinct possibility that Lily was not the first person to be "magical" in her family line. The fact that her parents were so proud to have a witch in the family seems to indicate that their own parents, or other close relatives, were Squibs. Possibly they thought that the magical bloodline had died out before it presented itself once more in Lily, and were so pleased to find that they had another "witch" in the family.
It was quite astute of you to realize that if there were significant ties with the magical community, that it would appear through Lily's grandparents and not her parents! Since we know that Lily's parents were considered "Muggles" (from Jo's interviews), we can rule them out as having been directly born of Wizards and Witches. They would have been called "Squibs", and not "Muggles", if they had been non-magical people born into a magical family.
However, if Squibs married and produced children, their children wouldn't be called Squibs. Non-magical children born of non-magical parents (squibs) are called "Muggles". These Muggle children born from Squib parents may later on give birth to Magical children who, (despite their ancient ties in with the Wizarding World), would be considered to be "Muggle-born" witches or wizards. **Now is that clear as mud, or what?**
To tie this all back in with the Half-blood Prince, I do think that it's possible that Harry will discover much about his family in the next book. Although he is not the Half-blood Prince, I wouldn't be too surprised if we found out that he had family ties with the Prince. So, I definitely wouldn't rule out your idea, Aurora!
GC, thanks for the information about the Pumpkin Papers! How neat! I'm constantly amazed at what I learn here from other members. Thank you!
GryffEndora, I loved your question regarding what killed Sirius: Bella's spell or the veil. I've quite often pondered that one as well! I have to admit that I'm prejudiced enough towards Snuffles to think that it was only the Veil that got him. Although Bellatrix's spell is responsible for him falling backwards through the Veil, I hate to think that she "bested" Sirius except with dumb luck.
Stringer, you had a good question about the Magical Fountain. I think that the fountain getting broken is one of the most significant things, though. Dumbledore said that the fountain told a lie regarding the relationship between wizards and magical beings. The fact that it was broken seems to symbolize the lies being exposed, and recognized, for what they are. Sometimes something has to become completely broken in order to mend it correctly. I also think that the Wizard in the fountain does symbolize Harry's ability, and necessity, to unite all magical beings. My friends and I have been discussing this driving force in the plot for quite a while now. Good catch! Hopefully we will see some real progress towards the goal of unification by the end of HBP!
Good night all!
Barbie
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S.E. Jones - Jun 5, 2005 9:26 am (#693 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Arthur Levine, one of the publishers responsible for Scholastic, is mentioned on TLC:
Book Expo America: Levine Talks HP
Newsday is publishing a blog about Book Expo America, a publishing showcase taking place in New York City right now. The reporter spoke to Arthur Levine, publisher of Arthur A. Levine Books, the imprint under which Scholastic publishes Harry Potter, and though Levine spoke in his usual "saw nothing, know nothing" way, some of what he and others said might be considered a bit spoilery. Click below to read. Thanks, Bethany!
Alas, I was less successful wheedling any information about the new Harry Potter from the book's editor, Arthur Levine. "There's a new character named Maclaggen," he said, and spelled the name. And ...? And nothing. Levine clammed up. ... somebody dies. True? "I can neither confirm nor deny." Does Harry have a girlfriend? "I can't say ... He's definitely growing up in all areas of his life." Later, he said he didn't experience this book to be as dark as the last, though the overall arc of the series is that the "world is getting more pernicious". This one, he said, "has more romance in general". And then he and marketing VP Jennifer Pasanen, who was sitting in, started humming "Love is in the air". Well, it's a clue.
Unless someone swipes a copy of "HP and the Half-Blood Prince" (as two men already did in London, but they were caught), we'll have to wait until July 16.
On that day, said Pasanen, there are going to be at least 2,000 midnight parties (compared to some 800 Scholastic knew about at this point last time). Scholastic is printing 10.8 million copies (6.8 mill last time), and making 5.5 million giveaway tattoos, compared to 3 million bumper sticker giveaways with the last book. "There's a different scale," she said.
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KWeldon - Jun 5, 2005 8:17 pm (#694 of 1448)
I was wondering if anyone else is going to have the same quirk as me about reading the book. Once I get it in my hands, I won't even look at the listing of chapter titles, as they could give away even a little bit before I start reading. I'll see them soon enough when I start reading the respective chapter, but at least I will be at that point in the book by then.
Anyone else?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 5, 2005 8:32 pm (#695 of 1448)
KWeldon I am usually to greedy to read the book to take time to look at the chapter titles. As a Teacher Librarian I am supposed to teach students to predict the plot. I'm afraid I'm a dismal failure with that! I don't want to spend time predicting I want to read! LPO
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KWeldon - Jun 5, 2005 8:42 pm (#696 of 1448)
You wouldn't be the first who doesn't practice what they preach!
But, yes, that's another reason to skip looking at the chapter titles other then being spoiled, is that it takes time away from getting to the book itself, and we've been waiting long enough for it!
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Molly Fox - Jun 5, 2005 8:55 pm (#697 of 1448)
Oooooh! I LOVE reading the chapter titles first! To me, it's like looking at a map of amusement park rides while your waiting at the gate and getting all excited about all the possibilities of what's to come. It's such a tease!!!
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lemonbalm&bees - Jun 5, 2005 10:35 pm (#698 of 1448)
"This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything." ~D.A.
I'm with KW and LPO. I much prefer to let the story just sweep me along, at least the first time reading it through. Analysis, prediction, and deep-digging are for the second, third, and fifteenth time through.
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The giant squid - Jun 6, 2005 2:10 am (#699 of 1448)
I don't really read the chapter titles that much, but I will look at the number of them. I've noticed, though, that the titles I did read didn't mean anything anyway until I read the chapter. JKR's very good about not spoiling much in her chapter titles.
--Mike
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frogface - Jun 6, 2005 4:11 am (#700 of 1448)
Have you noticed how shes running out of titles to indicate a quidditch match between slytherin and gryffindor though
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
May I reiterate that the COS theory is not really mine - I was simply relating a theory that I read elsewhere. I just found it so interesting that I wanted to share it and see what others thought about it. I wish I could claim it, but alas, I can't.
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Chemyst - Jun 1, 2005 6:18 pm (#652 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Thanks for the link Eponine. Rather than submit a new question, I just rephrased yours. I figure that if they get enough similar questions dealing with the same topic, they'll be more likely to choose at least one of them.
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Suspero - Jun 1, 2005 7:36 pm (#653 of 1448)
Professor
Hey, "Choices" and everyone else -- I hope I didn't seem negative -- I think that CoS theory is fascinating, if for no other reason than that it shows again what a huge command JKR has of mythology and legends and literature and history. Wow! I think it's fascinating and everyone should go read it.
I sure wish it was midnight on July 15th... *sigh*
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 1, 2005 10:33 pm (#654 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Couldn't resist...asked her if Dumbledore is the giant squid...
...toddles off....
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Madam Pince - Jun 2, 2005 12:18 pm (#655 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Good question, TBE!
fbv, by all means ask her something about Snape at Godric's Hollow! I sort of did.... my question was "Was there anybody else present in the house when Lily and Baby Harry were attacked, besides Voldemort and the two of them?" I figured that would cover James or Snape either one -- hopefully she wouldn't just answer "Yes" or "No" but would say something like "Yes, James was there of course" or even "Interesting question! I'm not going to say!" which would tell us something even though it tells us nothing.
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Miriam Huber - Jun 2, 2005 1:00 pm (#656 of 1448)
Didn´t any of you ask: "How did you invent Harry Potter? Is it true it was on a train?" or "What would you recommend to a kid that wants to become a writer?"
--- only joking!!!
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Tomoé - Jun 2, 2005 1:51 pm (#657 of 1448)
Back in business
I did think of "who is your favorite authors?" and "what are you favorite books?", just to see if she still name the same ones (kidding, of course).
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Finn BV - Jun 2, 2005 2:15 pm (#658 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Thanks, Madam Pince! So, I'm submitting a whole bunch of questions, and here they are:
Does the Potion Puzzle relate to the DADA teachers? (some form of asking that in a roundabout way)
Since we can consider it canon because you wrote it, why does who we think is Voldemort suddenly turn around at Lily's door in the SS movie?
What is Draco's birthday?
Is Dumbledore the giant squid? (I figure that if enough people ask it then she'll have to answer it )
When you say "there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life," does that mean that there will be, that is, in a future book, a character who does magic late in life, or, that there was a character, that we will learn about, who did magic late in life. (See the "Magic Late in Life" thread to understand why I'm asking that )
That's it for now!
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GryffEndora - Jun 2, 2005 3:18 pm (#659 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I asked:
Recently you answered a question on jkrowling.com about Neville and The Prophesy. In your response you said (to paraphrase) Dumbledore does not believe Neville would have had the qualities that have enabled Harry to remain strong and sane throughout all of his many ordeals if Lord Voldemort had chosen to mark Neville instead of Harry. Do you agree with Dumbledore’s belief?
I'm also working on coming up with another question to ask.
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Catherine - Jun 2, 2005 4:59 pm (#660 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Madame Pince, I also asked if anyone else besides Harry, Voldemort, Lily, and James was present when the Potters were murdered.
I submitted several questions, among which was a version of Eponine's "Pensieve" question.
I confess that I also submitted one shipping question: "Do Harry and Pansy ever become romantically involved? Say it ain't so, Jo!"
That might be a wasted question, but I couldn't resist. At least it's better than asking if she really likes chocolate or how many pages the 7th book will be.
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KWeldon - Jun 2, 2005 7:03 pm (#661 of 1448)
I confess that I also submitted one shipping question: "Do Harry and Pansy ever become romantically involved? Say it ain't so, Jo!"
Can you believe I didn't even think of that one? Although I have to say, if she giggles or looks surprised at the question but gives us a cagey answer, I will assume that is a "Yes!".
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Eponine - Jun 2, 2005 7:09 pm (#662 of 1448)
Although I have to say, if she giggles or looks surprised at the question but gives us a cagey answer, I will assume that is a "Yes!".
I prefer to imagine her reaction to that as utter shock and complete bewilderment followed quickly by disgust.
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KWeldon - Jun 2, 2005 7:19 pm (#663 of 1448)
I prefer to imagine her reaction to that as utter shock and complete bewilderment followed quickly by disgust.
With a precedent already set in the series for personality improvement followed by courtship, I doubt that shock, bewilderment, and disgust would be her reaction.
But, that's for another thread on another day.... However, it is just the sort of question that talking heads might pick as a throwaway question that JKR would surely quickly and emphatically answer either way. Ignorance must be bliss for them.
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 2, 2005 7:24 pm (#664 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I think she would answer that question with something like "I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories..."
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Denise P. - Jun 2, 2005 7:27 pm (#665 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Please remember this is the thread to discuss HBP. If you want to discuss relationships, please take it to the correct thread. Thanks!
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Madam Pince - Jun 2, 2005 9:26 pm (#666 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Catherine, I left James out of my question because I'm not entirely convinced he was there when Lily and Harry were being attacked. Probably so, but possibly he was killed somewhere else and his body was brought there later? Anyway, that was my reasoning behind my question. I'm thinking she won't answer that one on the "Today" show anyway, but maybe her non-answer will be a clue. She probably won't answer it in HBP either. I'll bet we won't find out the complete picture of that night at Godric's Hollow until Book Seven. (Alas, earwax!)
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applepie - Jun 3, 2005 8:25 am (#667 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I submitted two questions, but am not sure she would answer the first one, as it might divulge too mugh information...
I am very interested in Sibyll's "lack of realization" that she has just delivered a prophecy, and wonder if she is able to recall it if questioned? If so, does this have anything to do with why Dumbledore insisted that she stay at Hogwarts when Umbridge dismissed her?
Do all prophecies have a record in the Department of Mysteries, and how are they labeled without someone having to hear it?
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Netherlandic - Jun 3, 2005 10:44 am (#668 of 1448)
I would ask how Snape spies on the Death Eaters. Or ask: what is McGonagalls task in the order?
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Good Evans - Jun 3, 2005 10:46 am (#669 of 1448)
Practically perfect in every way
Applepie - good Q - I woud definitely like that answered.
I haven't settled on a Q yet - but it might be about mirrors
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GryffEndora - Jun 3, 2005 10:53 am (#670 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I asked a second question that probably wont get answered but I asked: What were the inappropriate charms that Aberforth performed on the goat?
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So Sirius - Jun 3, 2005 11:07 am (#671 of 1448)
I won't ask a question, because it won't get picked, but if I was to ask one or two, they would be, which books (yours or other authors) do your children like to read most? And now that you're famous and leaving a huge mark on history for all time, what would you like your legacy to be?
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KWeldon - Jun 3, 2005 11:10 am (#672 of 1448)
TLC is reporting that at least two of the published books were stolen and recovered.
CONSTANT VIGILENCE!!
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Grindylow - Jun 3, 2005 11:55 am (#673 of 1448)
Someone stole two copies of HBP??
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KWeldon - Jun 3, 2005 12:03 pm (#674 of 1448)
Check out The Leaky Cauldron. Apparently even shots had to be fired. Good grief!
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 3, 2005 1:45 pm (#675 of 1448)
Mugglenet reports it was a reporter trying to buy the copies.
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Choices - Jun 3, 2005 6:11 pm (#676 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
"a reporter trying to buy the copies....."
Yikes, Rita Skeeter is up to her old tricks. LOL
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Snuffles - Jun 4, 2005 2:30 am (#677 of 1448)
Olivia
The 2 men have been charged with handling stolen goods and weapons offensive. They tried to sell it to 2 UK tabloid papers, namely The Sun and The Mirror who called the police. What fools, if that was me I would have just taken them home and curled up and read the book!!
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Regan of Gong - Jun 4, 2005 3:38 am (#678 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
You wouldn't have! I really would have liked to see you restrain yourself from gloating about it all over the forum.
It was on the news here in Australia as well, I was wondering how long it would take for this to get all over the forum.
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Catherine - Jun 4, 2005 4:40 am (#679 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
It seems like JKR and her attorneys have managed to get an injunction to prevent any leaks about HbP.
Our members need to be sure that they don't post spoilers about HbP on the Forum, especially spoilers that are leaked from unofficial sources.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 4, 2005 4:50 am (#680 of 1448)
For up to date news on the stolen Harry Potter books go to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What I don't like is that the Sun was going to pay for the books and then tell the police they had got them. After reading them and releasing spoilers probably. Why not just get the police involved immediately? The only reason the deal did not get done is that the shots were fired and the police called.
Well done to JKR and her team for getting a stop on any possible spoilers though.
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Ponine - Jun 4, 2005 6:28 am (#681 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I tend to freeze when really important tings (like questions for JKR) come up, but I asked, based on her answer regarding Luna, if Snape has, had or will have a son, and I also asked if Petunia had ever received a acceptance letter from Hogwarts... I you who get to see it!! Sigh... Tell us all about it...
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GryffEndora - Jun 4, 2005 8:29 am (#682 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
What I found to be most damning about The Sun buying the stolen HBP is that they were the same publication that "found a early copy of OotP in a field" and printed spoiler information after turning it in to the police. Sounds mighty fishy and I am thrilled JKR has put a stop to their shenanigans, at least for now.
I should probably throw a few allegedlys in there, so please feel free to insert allegedly where ever it sounds like I have all the facts.
*edit, spelling*
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Phoenix song - Jun 4, 2005 8:52 am (#683 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GryffEndora: I loved your post, and didn't feel the need to assert any allegedlys in at all! I've always found it hilarious that The Sun claimed, with OotP, that they found the copy in a field. Hmmm... Did they say that they found the copy in "Potter's Field"? Undoubtedly, they hoped that the same "Field" could yield another "crop" with the HBP.
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Jun 4, 2005 12:45 pm (#684 of 1448)
. . . . . "I've always found it hilarious that The Sun claimed, with OotP, that they found the copy in a field. . . . . ." Phoenix song
I'm reminded of the "Pumpkin Papers".
“On December 2, 1948, HUAC investigators were at the farmhouse of Whittaker Chambers with a subpoena. Chambers led them out of his bucolic home and to a pumpkin patch. There he took the top off of a hollowed-out pumpkin and presented them with film wrapped in wax paper.
Although there were no papers, only film, the treasonous treasure trove would be forever after known as the Pumpkin Papers.”
Source:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. HUAC was the “House Un-American Committee” which was chaired by then Congressman Nixon.
Here's an example a "Tabloid Truth", remember when the tabloids had the news of Michael Jackson marrying Lisa Marie Presley. I know I thought it was a joke but unfortunately it was true. (Just ask Lisa Marie!!!!!)
But the only way I'm going to believe anything about the HBP is when I finally get Book 6 in front of me and read it myself. ;-) GC
PS But if anyone told me Snape was spying on the Order and couldn't be trusted, somehow I'd convince myself to believe it. That greasy git. ;-) GC
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GryffEndora - Jun 4, 2005 1:27 pm (#685 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Asked a couple more questions today.
1. What killed Sirius Black The Veil or Bellatrix' Spell?
2. How are prophesies recorded and how does the Keeper of the Hall of Prophesy listen to them to label them without being hurt by the magical protection?
*edit* Thought of a third, asked 3. Are there more members of the Order of the Phoenix than we've met? Who are they?
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 4, 2005 2:56 pm (#686 of 1448)
Has anyone else thought the Half-Blood Prince (person, not book) might have something to do with Lily Evans' Grandparents?
Aurora xx
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haymoni - Jun 4, 2005 6:21 pm (#687 of 1448)
I asked if Draco would be returning to Hogwarts or if Narcissa would be homeschooling him.
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Regan of Gong - Jun 4, 2005 7:19 pm (#688 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Pictures of HBP book (only the cover) and the Theives at Mugglenet. Hmmmm...sounds like a book title,
HBP and the Theives
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Veritaserum - Jun 4, 2005 8:43 pm (#689 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I asked what the Unspeakables(?) were studying and if it was important to the series. I might ask exactly what is the veil?
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 4, 2005 8:43 pm (#690 of 1448)
What I want to know is if the books are ready and are being stored in a warehouse,why dont they just release them early?
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Stringer - Jun 4, 2005 9:10 pm (#691 of 1448)
I asked if there is a possibility a grim will be haunting a churchyard near Hogwarts. I also asked if the wizard in the fountain at the MOM represents Harry and his ability to united a divided magical community.
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Phoenix song - Jun 4, 2005 9:46 pm (#692 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
Has anyone else thought the Half-Blood Prince (person, not book) might have something to do with Lily Evans' Grandparents?" Aurora
Aurora, I think that your question is a good one that shouldn't be overlooked. I do, indeed, think that there is a distinct possibility that Lily was not the first person to be "magical" in her family line. The fact that her parents were so proud to have a witch in the family seems to indicate that their own parents, or other close relatives, were Squibs. Possibly they thought that the magical bloodline had died out before it presented itself once more in Lily, and were so pleased to find that they had another "witch" in the family.
It was quite astute of you to realize that if there were significant ties with the magical community, that it would appear through Lily's grandparents and not her parents! Since we know that Lily's parents were considered "Muggles" (from Jo's interviews), we can rule them out as having been directly born of Wizards and Witches. They would have been called "Squibs", and not "Muggles", if they had been non-magical people born into a magical family.
However, if Squibs married and produced children, their children wouldn't be called Squibs. Non-magical children born of non-magical parents (squibs) are called "Muggles". These Muggle children born from Squib parents may later on give birth to Magical children who, (despite their ancient ties in with the Wizarding World), would be considered to be "Muggle-born" witches or wizards. **Now is that clear as mud, or what?**
To tie this all back in with the Half-blood Prince, I do think that it's possible that Harry will discover much about his family in the next book. Although he is not the Half-blood Prince, I wouldn't be too surprised if we found out that he had family ties with the Prince. So, I definitely wouldn't rule out your idea, Aurora!
GC, thanks for the information about the Pumpkin Papers! How neat! I'm constantly amazed at what I learn here from other members. Thank you!
GryffEndora, I loved your question regarding what killed Sirius: Bella's spell or the veil. I've quite often pondered that one as well! I have to admit that I'm prejudiced enough towards Snuffles to think that it was only the Veil that got him. Although Bellatrix's spell is responsible for him falling backwards through the Veil, I hate to think that she "bested" Sirius except with dumb luck.
Stringer, you had a good question about the Magical Fountain. I think that the fountain getting broken is one of the most significant things, though. Dumbledore said that the fountain told a lie regarding the relationship between wizards and magical beings. The fact that it was broken seems to symbolize the lies being exposed, and recognized, for what they are. Sometimes something has to become completely broken in order to mend it correctly. I also think that the Wizard in the fountain does symbolize Harry's ability, and necessity, to unite all magical beings. My friends and I have been discussing this driving force in the plot for quite a while now. Good catch! Hopefully we will see some real progress towards the goal of unification by the end of HBP!
Good night all!
Barbie
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S.E. Jones - Jun 5, 2005 9:26 am (#693 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Arthur Levine, one of the publishers responsible for Scholastic, is mentioned on TLC:
Book Expo America: Levine Talks HP
Newsday is publishing a blog about Book Expo America, a publishing showcase taking place in New York City right now. The reporter spoke to Arthur Levine, publisher of Arthur A. Levine Books, the imprint under which Scholastic publishes Harry Potter, and though Levine spoke in his usual "saw nothing, know nothing" way, some of what he and others said might be considered a bit spoilery. Click below to read. Thanks, Bethany!
Alas, I was less successful wheedling any information about the new Harry Potter from the book's editor, Arthur Levine. "There's a new character named Maclaggen," he said, and spelled the name. And ...? And nothing. Levine clammed up. ... somebody dies. True? "I can neither confirm nor deny." Does Harry have a girlfriend? "I can't say ... He's definitely growing up in all areas of his life." Later, he said he didn't experience this book to be as dark as the last, though the overall arc of the series is that the "world is getting more pernicious". This one, he said, "has more romance in general". And then he and marketing VP Jennifer Pasanen, who was sitting in, started humming "Love is in the air". Well, it's a clue.
Unless someone swipes a copy of "HP and the Half-Blood Prince" (as two men already did in London, but they were caught), we'll have to wait until July 16.
On that day, said Pasanen, there are going to be at least 2,000 midnight parties (compared to some 800 Scholastic knew about at this point last time). Scholastic is printing 10.8 million copies (6.8 mill last time), and making 5.5 million giveaway tattoos, compared to 3 million bumper sticker giveaways with the last book. "There's a different scale," she said.
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KWeldon - Jun 5, 2005 8:17 pm (#694 of 1448)
I was wondering if anyone else is going to have the same quirk as me about reading the book. Once I get it in my hands, I won't even look at the listing of chapter titles, as they could give away even a little bit before I start reading. I'll see them soon enough when I start reading the respective chapter, but at least I will be at that point in the book by then.
Anyone else?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 5, 2005 8:32 pm (#695 of 1448)
KWeldon I am usually to greedy to read the book to take time to look at the chapter titles. As a Teacher Librarian I am supposed to teach students to predict the plot. I'm afraid I'm a dismal failure with that! I don't want to spend time predicting I want to read! LPO
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KWeldon - Jun 5, 2005 8:42 pm (#696 of 1448)
You wouldn't be the first who doesn't practice what they preach!
But, yes, that's another reason to skip looking at the chapter titles other then being spoiled, is that it takes time away from getting to the book itself, and we've been waiting long enough for it!
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Molly Fox - Jun 5, 2005 8:55 pm (#697 of 1448)
Oooooh! I LOVE reading the chapter titles first! To me, it's like looking at a map of amusement park rides while your waiting at the gate and getting all excited about all the possibilities of what's to come. It's such a tease!!!
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lemonbalm&bees - Jun 5, 2005 10:35 pm (#698 of 1448)
"This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything." ~D.A.
I'm with KW and LPO. I much prefer to let the story just sweep me along, at least the first time reading it through. Analysis, prediction, and deep-digging are for the second, third, and fifteenth time through.
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The giant squid - Jun 6, 2005 2:10 am (#699 of 1448)
I don't really read the chapter titles that much, but I will look at the number of them. I've noticed, though, that the titles I did read didn't mean anything anyway until I read the chapter. JKR's very good about not spoiling much in her chapter titles.
--Mike
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frogface - Jun 6, 2005 4:11 am (#700 of 1448)
Have you noticed how shes running out of titles to indicate a quidditch match between slytherin and gryffindor though
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KWeldon - Jun 6, 2005 7:41 am (#701 of 1448)
Mugglenet has pictures of the actual books stolen recently. At least one of them was the UK adult version, and it shows a picture of JKR on the back of it. Were the earlier adult UK versions the same, with a picture of her?
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Finn BV - Jun 6, 2005 8:10 am (#702 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I always read the chapter titles first because they're so interestingly mysterious. I try to imagine what could happen, and then I start it. The annoying thing is that the Spanish version doesn't have a table of contents, and when I'm trying to learn how to say something like "owl" and I know it's the name of a title I can't. I think that the chapter titles don't give anything away unless you know the plot.
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Veritaserum - Jun 6, 2005 10:06 am (#703 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Oh man, I'm terrible about looking at the chapter titles. With OOP I looked through the entire book to see the pictures in the chapter headings...not a good idea, as a certain traumatic scene happens right at the end of a chapter...definitely must restrain myself this time around!
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constant vigilance - Jun 6, 2005 10:26 am (#704 of 1448)
art student
I avoid looking at chapter titles for one I don't want them to reviel anything prematurely, and two, I'll see them whilst reading anyway. I do however look to see how many glorious pages of Potter world I get to have.
Molly Fox, I loved your anology of the amusement park rides! So vivid and susinct!
I sent the question: How did Dumbledore come to have Fawkes? It may not be crucial to the plot but I am oh so curious! And I asked Who gave Aragog to Hagrid, because I think it too convient that Tom could blame aragog for Myrtle's death. This seems too much like the mysterious person giving away Norbert. I would also love JKR to answer, but didn't ask, how Dumbledore managed to rescue Umbridge from the Centaurs without a scratch?!
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Doris Crockford - Jun 6, 2005 11:24 am (#705 of 1448)
To be quite honest, I haven't even thought about reading the chapter titles first to guess what happens. I'm always too excited just at the thought of reading a new Harry Potter book. Actually, sometimes, I'm so into the book, I don't even notice that one chapter has ended and another has started!
I sent two questions: Why did Arthur go to Azkaban? and What did the Boggart in the drawer at Grimmauld Place look like to Moody?
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applepie - Jun 6, 2005 11:31 am (#706 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I don't look at the chapter titles before reading, because I would have no clue what half of them are related to. However, if the title were something revealing, I would not be able to avoid turning there directly and skimming through. So, I just wait it out and when I get there, I get there.
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bella - Jun 6, 2005 11:33 am (#707 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
When was Arthur in Azkaban?
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Steve Newton - Jun 6, 2005 11:38 am (#708 of 1448)
Librarian
I recall a mention of Arthur visiting the Big A but can't remember the occasion or the context.
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Doris Crockford - Jun 6, 2005 12:30 pm (#709 of 1448)
In Prisoner of Azkaban, the first morning they are at Hogwarts, one of the twins asks the other if he remembers Arthur going to Azkaban and coming back weak and shaky. It kinda popped out at me as Ron was sitting right there, and he didn't say anything, and neither Hermione nor Harry asked why their best friend's father had been to prison. It was probably on Ministry business, but I thought I'd ask and maybe get that cleared up.
Edit: "'Forget it, Harry,' said George bracingly. 'Dad had to go out to Azkaban one time, remember, Fred? And he said it was the worst place he'd ever been. He came back all weak and shaking.'" (PoA p. 75-76, Talons and Tea Leaves).
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Finn BV - Jun 6, 2005 2:57 pm (#710 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
That could mean, though, that he had to do some inspection in Azkaban for the ministry, and just to give the sense of what it was like for somebody who wasn't even in jail, she gave us that impression. Anyway, this is going very off topic.
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GryffEndora - Jun 6, 2005 3:15 pm (#711 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Today I asked, How old is Fawkes the Phoenix?
I am so excited! I can't stand it. Less than 40 days until HBP!!! I really want Harry to get some good times with the ones he loves before going into the war. I hope he gets some time with the Weasleys, Hermione & Lupin where he doesn't have to think about Voldy War II for at least a couple of hours. I hope we get to see Weasley's Wizard Wheezes. I can't wait to see what they've invented over the summer and hear about how the shop is doing. I hope now that Molly sees they are really good at running a joke shop she will start to praise them as she praises her other boys.
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Tomoé - Jun 6, 2005 3:38 pm (#712 of 1448)
Back in business
I won't read the table of contents as there's no table of contents in the UK version. Anyway, I'll be too excited to begin to read the book, even if there would have been a table of contents I wouldn't wast time to look at it.
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bella - Jun 6, 2005 4:58 pm (#713 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Sorry for bringing it off topic, and thank you for the answers.
The Canadian versions don't have a table of contents either, but I do randomly flip through to get a glimpse of what is to come but not in any order so it doesn't spoil too much.
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Madam Pince - Jun 6, 2005 9:35 pm (#714 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I'm with Doris Crockford and Tomoe -- I'm so excited to be reading the book, I certainly don't glance at the table of contents, and I barely even notice that there's a new chapter starting. I don't even notice the chapter titles until the second read when I start putting together what they meant.
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GryffEndora - Jun 7, 2005 8:55 am (#715 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I read the chapter title as I start the chapter. I also take a moment to look at the illustration, I read the US editions. Sometimes I will look back at the illustration once I read the section it is depicting but not typically. I don't read the chapter titles in the table of contents I just want to get to the book. I will read the jacket blurb. I figure anything printed there is not that important, though I was shocked to see Ron on the Quidditch team in the blurb. I wish that had been more carefully worded. At least they didn't also say Ron was prefect!
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Finn BV - Jun 7, 2005 9:14 am (#716 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Hey, everybody. TLC and MuggleNet are having another "Submit a Question" thing because they're going to be interviewing JKR on July 16th. Check it out here.
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librarian314 - Jun 7, 2005 9:27 am (#717 of 1448)
Hey all!
When I sit down to read a book, I'll read the author's note, acknowledgement, and dedication pages. Once I start reading though, I only pay attention to the ends of chapters as potentially good places to stop for a bit, so that I can go to work or to sleep. Though with both GoF and OotP, I begged my husband to keep going on to the next chapter because the previous one ended in the middle of things.
I was surprised when my husband told me that the beginnings of the chapters have pictures. When I read the books I tend to ignore those as well. I have studied a few, to try and get some sort of idea as to what certain characters look like but mostly I just keep going with the words.
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*michelle the librarian**
PowerOn - Jun 8, 2005 11:26 am (#718 of 1448)
HP Freak (and no, not Hewlett Packard)
Back to the cover:
If they (DD and HP) are indeed at a pensieve's representation of Godric's Hollow in the illustration on HBP, wouldn't that mean that someone had to actually be physically present?
Perhaps DD hasn't been forthcoming about all his knowledge according to the presence of himself or another person at Godric's Hollow at the event of Harry's parents' death.
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Tomoé - Jun 8, 2005 12:12 pm (#719 of 1448)
Back in business
It could be Harry who pick that in Voldemort's head (we know he actually was physically present that night ^_~).
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KTO - Jun 9, 2005 8:38 am (#720 of 1448)
I do not know about the rest of you but I can hardly WAIT!!
my family thinks I am insane as I am a forty year old woman ( no idea where the time went) who is totally into HP!
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KWeldon - Jun 9, 2005 8:57 am (#721 of 1448)
Anybody re-reading OotP in preparation? I think I'll re-read at least from Harry's vision of Sirius on.
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Choices - Jun 9, 2005 8:59 am (#722 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I am in GOF now and hope to finish OotP before July 16th.
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 9:14 am (#723 of 1448)
I want to read OotP but I don't want to read about DJU!!! She makes me so madddddddd.. :{
KTO......take heart! There are many of us out there! I am a 36 year old woman who is so into Harry Potter that I refused to go for the weekend to the lake because I have to be there when HBP is released! My husband BEGGED me not to tell anyone that is why I wasn't going! I think I embarrass him!!!!
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 9:37 am (#724 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 9, 2005 8:50 pm
KWeldon, I just finished OoTP a couple of weeks ago. My husband couldn't believe I was reading it again. What does he know about being a fan!
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KWeldon - Jun 9, 2005 10:29 am (#725 of 1448)
I am a 36 year old woman who is so into Harry Potter that I refused to go for the weekend to the lake because I have to be there when HBP is released
Grindylow, I did almost the exact same thing! I'm subconciously urging our group to go on a trip another weekend just so I can get the book 36 hrs earlier. How sick. Oh, and I'm 36, too!
I almost don't mind so much that I have to wait another 36 hours, but I'm terrified that I'm going to inadvertently hear about something in the plot before I get a chance to read it. I'm also paranoid about waiting in line at the book store, for example if someone on their way out sneaks a peek and then says loud enough for everyone to hear, "Oh, so-and-so dies!"
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KTO - Jun 9, 2005 10:43 am (#726 of 1448)
I allowed myself one book in the series for each of the five months before the release, am now reading OOTP and am trying to control myself so I do not have weeks left before I am finished, but it is tough!!
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 9, 2005 11:11 am (#727 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I like many of you am in my last reread before HBP comes out. I have just finished the chapter where HRH get Percy's letter. And for all of you youngster's who are out there, I am a 57 year old grandfather of 7 who could care less if anybody gets embarassed over me reading a "children's book". My grandkids(four of them)and I will be spending a whole week when the book comes out to read HBP together.
Mickey
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 11:13 am (#728 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Good for you, Mickey. I happen to think that's wonderful.
By the way, I love your avatar. Mickey is the main man in animation!
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frogface - Jun 9, 2005 11:16 am (#729 of 1448)
Main mouse you mean. I've started re reading OotP today, and I'm trying not to rush through it, its very hard though! I've already done about 5 chapters.
Oh P.S I'm a 19 year old guy, and if my friends ever take the mick (no pun intended) out of me for reading Harry Potter I just tell them they don't know what they're missing! I think its really great that the Harry Potter series encorages so many different age groups to read.
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 11:31 am (#730 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 9, 2005 8:52 pm
Yes, I meant the main mouse
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 9, 2005 11:34 am (#731 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
For those interested, there is a thread called "Harry Potter Series Read A Long" way down the list. I'm thinking they are on OoP now and betting they'd like others to join in. :-)
...toddles off elsewhere...
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 11:43 am (#732 of 1448)
KWeldon-I am glad to see that I am not alone! I had almost committed to that date, when I REMEMBERED!!!!!!!!!!!
I would DIE if someone did that to me!!! I am going to be at one of our local bookstores here by at least 10:00...to get my BOOK!
I ordered one through Walmart for my daughter....neither of us could wait to read it when the other was finished so we are reading it at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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KWeldon - Jun 9, 2005 12:00 pm (#733 of 1448)
Great minds think alike. I actually SUGGESTED that date until I realized my egregious error. I ordered two, also. One for me and one for me. I actually may take notes in one while leaving the other unblemished.
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 12:09 pm (#734 of 1448)
LOL....I think I might want the UK versions as well...I had no idea the coverart was different!!
AM I OBSESSED OR WHAT?
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Netherlandic - Jun 9, 2005 1:12 pm (#735 of 1448)
Grindylow, KWeldon and others. I am counting down every single day up to the 16th. Can't wait. Have reread all 5 books by now. Discussing it with family members and colleagues and get laughed at by some, if not most. Don't be ashamed.
Netherlandic.
P.S. I also have decided to keep that weekend free and I might read throughout the night.
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 2:27 pm (#736 of 1448)
Me too! The 16th can't come fast enough for me!
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Mediwitch - Jun 9, 2005 2:42 pm (#737 of 1448)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
We had already put a deposit on a cottage in Maine for a week beginning on the 16th - AND the closest bookstore to our house is 30 minutes away. I'm making my husband go to my mother's house on the 16th so she and I can go to a bookstore close to her house for the midnight release, and we are leaving for Maine from there!!! He thinks I'm crazy, but now he's decided to go with us! (By the way, I'm a 34-year-old woman, and my mother is 60.)
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Choices - Jun 9, 2005 5:57 pm (#738 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
LOL I have your Mom beat - I am 62 and rereading the series for the 14th time and will be ready for HBP on the 16th. I have ordered two copies - one for me and one for my family to fight over. For the last two years I have done nothing but read the HP books over and over. Every time I even think about reading something else, I just can't imagine not being in a HP book for that long, so I go back to my rereading. Right now, I can't envision growing tired of them and am so happy at the prospect of having a 6th book to add to my rereading "orobouros".
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 6:18 pm (#739 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Choices, I wish I had a little more time to re-read the entire series, but I find that there is too much else that I want to read. I will probably read the 6th book and then re-read the others (I've never read PS/SS)....and yes, I feel horrible about that. I have it right next to me on the coffee table, in case I get an urge to pick it up between the other books I'm reading.
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Kwikspell - Jun 9, 2005 6:45 pm (#740 of 1448)
Marketers? Bah!
My husband and I have Cubs' tickets on July 16. I guess we weren't thinking straight when we got them in February. I think I should have the book read by then since we're getting them (one for me, one for my husband) at midnight on the 15th. If not, I'll just have to bring the book with me and indulge my two obsessions at once! (The tricky part was uninviting the in-laws who were supposed to be here that weekend for the game.)
I reread the whole series last month, but have started over again and am furiously marking up the books with notes.
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 6:48 pm (#741 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
The tricky part was uninviting the in-laws who were supposed to be here that weekend for the game.
Kwikspell, how DID you pull that off?
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Madam Pince - Jun 9, 2005 8:52 pm (#742 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
KWeldon, I'm also in the middle of OoP right now, as a prep for HBP. I've been re-reading the whole series off-and-on for the past few months, but I didn't schedule myself very well because now I'm trying to stretch OoP out to last for 35 more days. Ha! -- fat chance -- although I probably won't read anything more strenuous than a magazine for the next week while we're on vacation. (I have been looking for a paperback copy of "The DaVinci Code" for my beach-read, but haven't been able to find one.)
I will probably fill in the last few days with a re-read of "Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter." It has some pretty good summaries and brings up some interesting questions.
My local K-Mart has one of those big cardboard stands with the tear-off sheets that say "___ days until HBP," and the other day I had this insane urge to go find the manager and tell them the tear-off sheet was wrong, because I happen to know the exact number of days, and their cardboard thingy was wrong. I wonder how many other people in that store were as bothered by that as I was?
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S.E. Jones - Jun 9, 2005 9:10 pm (#743 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Okay, I know we've been led away from the discussion of guessing who the HBP is, but I was thinking about it earlier. On the Godric's Hollow thread, we discussed the possibility of Dumbledore using a portrait to know that the Potters had been attacked and killed. If this is a possibility, could the person in the portrait who witnessed the attack be the HBP?
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Miriam Huber - Jun 9, 2005 10:42 pm (#744 of 1448)
That´s an interesting idea, SEJ! And we would meet the HBP because he would tell Harry about his parents?
But there would have to be two portraits, one at the Potter´s and the other with Dumbledore. The first might be destroyed, but where do you thing the other would hang? In D´s office? That would mean he probably was a headmaster of Hogwarts. Imagine Harry (and us) walking past this portrait several times when he was in Dumbledore´s office and never knowing how important it would become to him ...
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 10, 2005 1:14 am (#745 of 1448)
grindylow - I have ordered one of each UK version. I am now planning to try and get all the US versions - one for each of the books. But can't stop, am due in therapy very soon.
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Betelgeuse Black - Jun 10, 2005 6:56 am (#746 of 1448)
I'm a 42 year old man and I'm thinking of taking a vacation day the monday after the 16th so I can finish up the HBP.
I just started rereading the series but I picked up PoA as the starting point. By the 16th, I should be through GoF and OOTP.
Obsessed, yes....
Betelgeuse
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Grindylow - Jun 10, 2005 7:54 am (#747 of 1448)
Phelim-I am glad to know that I am not the only one with this problem! I have one set of hardback copies and one set of paperback copies of the US Version......
I am quashing my desire to get the UK versions too.....HELP!!!
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Veritaserum - Jun 10, 2005 8:04 am (#748 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Yeah...still need to order my copy of HBP...and reread the series. Haven't done any of that yet. Have so many other books to read! Maybe I'll at least read POA or OOP. Actually, I haven't read Goblet in a really long time...
Has anyone looked at the back cover of the UK kids version? It looks strikingly similar to the US version. Same green mist, same pensieve-ish thing...though on this version I think it looks more like a Goblet. And there's also some empty random boat floating in green water, and on the inside flaps there are two hands being linked by some magic-looking stuff.
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KWeldon - Jun 10, 2005 8:05 am (#749 of 1448)
HEY! TLC IS SHOWING IMAGES OF THE BACK COVER OF THE UK BOOK!!
Edit: cross-posted with Veritasatum.
Way cool! I wonder what the fire around the joined hands is? Some kind of magical bond? What body of water is the boat on, and why is it empty? Is it the lake by Hogwarts? Is it a boat that takes the first years?
There is also a ring on the spine! Is it Dumbledore's? The HBP? Godric Gryffindor's?
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 10, 2005 8:05 am (#750 of 1448)
Hi,
I'm a sixty year old, PhD and college prof who is loves the Boston Red Sox and Harry Potter. I began rereading the entire series two months ago. I've been monitoring my progress carefully, but I've blown it. I'm about one-third through OotP. I don't think I can stretch it out another five weeks or so. Well, I'll have to reread the last few chapters. They're filled with so many answers, yet create so many questions ....
I also just studied the latest cover art from the British children's edition. It shows the back page and the folding inserts. WOW!
An island that is a circular foundation made of dressed, laid blocks of gray stone arranged in a pattern of twelve radii.
A circular, stone plinth in the center is arranged in pattern of six radii.
Upon the plinth is a circular, barrel-shaped column with a base of four, single-clawed toes.
A broad, shallow dish rests atop the column.
A bright, golden liquid is in the dish.
A great, golden light emanates from the dish illuminating the cavern and the pond surrounding the stony island.
A small, single thwarted boat illuminated by the light is reflected in the surface of the pond.
The sidewall of the cave illuminated by the light is gray, cracked and gives the appearance of being a large arching vault that extends into darkness above and beyond.
The folding inserts are, perhaps, even more interesting:
Two hands, dexter, clasped with thumb enclosed in opposing fist both entwined by golden, fiery ropes.
The arm on the right is sinewy and youthful, as that of a young man. The arm on the left is softer and less well muscled, yet youthful, as that of a young woman.
Both are clothed in grayish black material, the sleeves of which are rolled up to partially expose the lower arm.
The appearance is that of arm wrestlers, whose wrists are bound to prevent either from withdrawing.
Conclusion:
1. We speculated about the Chamber of Secrets. This cover might indeed be a grotto hidden within that Chamber. I suspect that the dish atop the claw-footed column is a Pensieve.
2. The two arms is intriguing. What young man and young woman could be arm wrestling? Why are they locked in combat? What is the golden rope that restrains them?
I am tempted to suggest Harry and Hermione, but that doesn't make any sense.
I look forward to all your comments.
WOW! Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Mugglenet has pictures of the actual books stolen recently. At least one of them was the UK adult version, and it shows a picture of JKR on the back of it. Were the earlier adult UK versions the same, with a picture of her?
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Finn BV - Jun 6, 2005 8:10 am (#702 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
I always read the chapter titles first because they're so interestingly mysterious. I try to imagine what could happen, and then I start it. The annoying thing is that the Spanish version doesn't have a table of contents, and when I'm trying to learn how to say something like "owl" and I know it's the name of a title I can't. I think that the chapter titles don't give anything away unless you know the plot.
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Veritaserum - Jun 6, 2005 10:06 am (#703 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Oh man, I'm terrible about looking at the chapter titles. With OOP I looked through the entire book to see the pictures in the chapter headings...not a good idea, as a certain traumatic scene happens right at the end of a chapter...definitely must restrain myself this time around!
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constant vigilance - Jun 6, 2005 10:26 am (#704 of 1448)
art student
I avoid looking at chapter titles for one I don't want them to reviel anything prematurely, and two, I'll see them whilst reading anyway. I do however look to see how many glorious pages of Potter world I get to have.
Molly Fox, I loved your anology of the amusement park rides! So vivid and susinct!
I sent the question: How did Dumbledore come to have Fawkes? It may not be crucial to the plot but I am oh so curious! And I asked Who gave Aragog to Hagrid, because I think it too convient that Tom could blame aragog for Myrtle's death. This seems too much like the mysterious person giving away Norbert. I would also love JKR to answer, but didn't ask, how Dumbledore managed to rescue Umbridge from the Centaurs without a scratch?!
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Doris Crockford - Jun 6, 2005 11:24 am (#705 of 1448)
To be quite honest, I haven't even thought about reading the chapter titles first to guess what happens. I'm always too excited just at the thought of reading a new Harry Potter book. Actually, sometimes, I'm so into the book, I don't even notice that one chapter has ended and another has started!
I sent two questions: Why did Arthur go to Azkaban? and What did the Boggart in the drawer at Grimmauld Place look like to Moody?
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applepie - Jun 6, 2005 11:31 am (#706 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I don't look at the chapter titles before reading, because I would have no clue what half of them are related to. However, if the title were something revealing, I would not be able to avoid turning there directly and skimming through. So, I just wait it out and when I get there, I get there.
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bella - Jun 6, 2005 11:33 am (#707 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
When was Arthur in Azkaban?
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Steve Newton - Jun 6, 2005 11:38 am (#708 of 1448)
Librarian
I recall a mention of Arthur visiting the Big A but can't remember the occasion or the context.
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Doris Crockford - Jun 6, 2005 12:30 pm (#709 of 1448)
In Prisoner of Azkaban, the first morning they are at Hogwarts, one of the twins asks the other if he remembers Arthur going to Azkaban and coming back weak and shaky. It kinda popped out at me as Ron was sitting right there, and he didn't say anything, and neither Hermione nor Harry asked why their best friend's father had been to prison. It was probably on Ministry business, but I thought I'd ask and maybe get that cleared up.
Edit: "'Forget it, Harry,' said George bracingly. 'Dad had to go out to Azkaban one time, remember, Fred? And he said it was the worst place he'd ever been. He came back all weak and shaking.'" (PoA p. 75-76, Talons and Tea Leaves).
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Finn BV - Jun 6, 2005 2:57 pm (#710 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
That could mean, though, that he had to do some inspection in Azkaban for the ministry, and just to give the sense of what it was like for somebody who wasn't even in jail, she gave us that impression. Anyway, this is going very off topic.
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GryffEndora - Jun 6, 2005 3:15 pm (#711 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Today I asked, How old is Fawkes the Phoenix?
I am so excited! I can't stand it. Less than 40 days until HBP!!! I really want Harry to get some good times with the ones he loves before going into the war. I hope he gets some time with the Weasleys, Hermione & Lupin where he doesn't have to think about Voldy War II for at least a couple of hours. I hope we get to see Weasley's Wizard Wheezes. I can't wait to see what they've invented over the summer and hear about how the shop is doing. I hope now that Molly sees they are really good at running a joke shop she will start to praise them as she praises her other boys.
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Tomoé - Jun 6, 2005 3:38 pm (#712 of 1448)
Back in business
I won't read the table of contents as there's no table of contents in the UK version. Anyway, I'll be too excited to begin to read the book, even if there would have been a table of contents I wouldn't wast time to look at it.
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bella - Jun 6, 2005 4:58 pm (#713 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Sorry for bringing it off topic, and thank you for the answers.
The Canadian versions don't have a table of contents either, but I do randomly flip through to get a glimpse of what is to come but not in any order so it doesn't spoil too much.
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Madam Pince - Jun 6, 2005 9:35 pm (#714 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I'm with Doris Crockford and Tomoe -- I'm so excited to be reading the book, I certainly don't glance at the table of contents, and I barely even notice that there's a new chapter starting. I don't even notice the chapter titles until the second read when I start putting together what they meant.
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GryffEndora - Jun 7, 2005 8:55 am (#715 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I read the chapter title as I start the chapter. I also take a moment to look at the illustration, I read the US editions. Sometimes I will look back at the illustration once I read the section it is depicting but not typically. I don't read the chapter titles in the table of contents I just want to get to the book. I will read the jacket blurb. I figure anything printed there is not that important, though I was shocked to see Ron on the Quidditch team in the blurb. I wish that had been more carefully worded. At least they didn't also say Ron was prefect!
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Finn BV - Jun 7, 2005 9:14 am (#716 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Hey, everybody. TLC and MuggleNet are having another "Submit a Question" thing because they're going to be interviewing JKR on July 16th. Check it out here.
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librarian314 - Jun 7, 2005 9:27 am (#717 of 1448)
Hey all!
When I sit down to read a book, I'll read the author's note, acknowledgement, and dedication pages. Once I start reading though, I only pay attention to the ends of chapters as potentially good places to stop for a bit, so that I can go to work or to sleep. Though with both GoF and OotP, I begged my husband to keep going on to the next chapter because the previous one ended in the middle of things.
I was surprised when my husband told me that the beginnings of the chapters have pictures. When I read the books I tend to ignore those as well. I have studied a few, to try and get some sort of idea as to what certain characters look like but mostly I just keep going with the words.
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*michelle the librarian**
PowerOn - Jun 8, 2005 11:26 am (#718 of 1448)
HP Freak (and no, not Hewlett Packard)
Back to the cover:
If they (DD and HP) are indeed at a pensieve's representation of Godric's Hollow in the illustration on HBP, wouldn't that mean that someone had to actually be physically present?
Perhaps DD hasn't been forthcoming about all his knowledge according to the presence of himself or another person at Godric's Hollow at the event of Harry's parents' death.
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Tomoé - Jun 8, 2005 12:12 pm (#719 of 1448)
Back in business
It could be Harry who pick that in Voldemort's head (we know he actually was physically present that night ^_~).
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KTO - Jun 9, 2005 8:38 am (#720 of 1448)
I do not know about the rest of you but I can hardly WAIT!!
my family thinks I am insane as I am a forty year old woman ( no idea where the time went) who is totally into HP!
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KWeldon - Jun 9, 2005 8:57 am (#721 of 1448)
Anybody re-reading OotP in preparation? I think I'll re-read at least from Harry's vision of Sirius on.
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Choices - Jun 9, 2005 8:59 am (#722 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I am in GOF now and hope to finish OotP before July 16th.
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 9:14 am (#723 of 1448)
I want to read OotP but I don't want to read about DJU!!! She makes me so madddddddd.. :{
KTO......take heart! There are many of us out there! I am a 36 year old woman who is so into Harry Potter that I refused to go for the weekend to the lake because I have to be there when HBP is released! My husband BEGGED me not to tell anyone that is why I wasn't going! I think I embarrass him!!!!
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 9:37 am (#724 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 9, 2005 8:50 pm
KWeldon, I just finished OoTP a couple of weeks ago. My husband couldn't believe I was reading it again. What does he know about being a fan!
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KWeldon - Jun 9, 2005 10:29 am (#725 of 1448)
I am a 36 year old woman who is so into Harry Potter that I refused to go for the weekend to the lake because I have to be there when HBP is released
Grindylow, I did almost the exact same thing! I'm subconciously urging our group to go on a trip another weekend just so I can get the book 36 hrs earlier. How sick. Oh, and I'm 36, too!
I almost don't mind so much that I have to wait another 36 hours, but I'm terrified that I'm going to inadvertently hear about something in the plot before I get a chance to read it. I'm also paranoid about waiting in line at the book store, for example if someone on their way out sneaks a peek and then says loud enough for everyone to hear, "Oh, so-and-so dies!"
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KTO - Jun 9, 2005 10:43 am (#726 of 1448)
I allowed myself one book in the series for each of the five months before the release, am now reading OOTP and am trying to control myself so I do not have weeks left before I am finished, but it is tough!!
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 9, 2005 11:11 am (#727 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
I like many of you am in my last reread before HBP comes out. I have just finished the chapter where HRH get Percy's letter. And for all of you youngster's who are out there, I am a 57 year old grandfather of 7 who could care less if anybody gets embarassed over me reading a "children's book". My grandkids(four of them)and I will be spending a whole week when the book comes out to read HBP together.
Mickey
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 11:13 am (#728 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Good for you, Mickey. I happen to think that's wonderful.
By the way, I love your avatar. Mickey is the main man in animation!
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frogface - Jun 9, 2005 11:16 am (#729 of 1448)
Main mouse you mean. I've started re reading OotP today, and I'm trying not to rush through it, its very hard though! I've already done about 5 chapters.
Oh P.S I'm a 19 year old guy, and if my friends ever take the mick (no pun intended
) out of me for reading Harry Potter I just tell them they don't know what they're missing! I think its really great that the Harry Potter series encorages so many different age groups to read. - - - - - - - - - -
applepie - Jun 9, 2005 11:31 am (#730 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 9, 2005 8:52 pm
Yes, I meant the main mouse
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 9, 2005 11:34 am (#731 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
For those interested, there is a thread called "Harry Potter Series Read A Long" way down the list. I'm thinking they are on OoP now and betting they'd like others to join in. :-)
...toddles off elsewhere...
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 11:43 am (#732 of 1448)
KWeldon-I am glad to see that I am not alone! I had almost committed to that date, when I REMEMBERED!!!!!!!!!!!
I would DIE if someone did that to me!!! I am going to be at one of our local bookstores here by at least 10:00...to get my BOOK!
I ordered one through Walmart for my daughter....neither of us could wait to read it when the other was finished so we are reading it at the same time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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KWeldon - Jun 9, 2005 12:00 pm (#733 of 1448)
Great minds think alike. I actually SUGGESTED that date until I realized my egregious error. I ordered two, also. One for me and one for me. I actually may take notes in one while leaving the other unblemished.
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 12:09 pm (#734 of 1448)
LOL....I think I might want the UK versions as well...I had no idea the coverart was different!!
AM I OBSESSED OR WHAT?
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Netherlandic - Jun 9, 2005 1:12 pm (#735 of 1448)
Grindylow, KWeldon and others. I am counting down every single day up to the 16th. Can't wait. Have reread all 5 books by now. Discussing it with family members and colleagues and get laughed at by some, if not most. Don't be ashamed.
Netherlandic.
P.S. I also have decided to keep that weekend free and I might read throughout the night.
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Grindylow - Jun 9, 2005 2:27 pm (#736 of 1448)
Me too! The 16th can't come fast enough for me!
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Mediwitch - Jun 9, 2005 2:42 pm (#737 of 1448)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
We had already put a deposit on a cottage in Maine for a week beginning on the 16th - AND the closest bookstore to our house is 30 minutes away. I'm making my husband go to my mother's house on the 16th so she and I can go to a bookstore close to her house for the midnight release, and we are leaving for Maine from there!!! He thinks I'm crazy, but now he's decided to go with us! (By the way, I'm a 34-year-old woman, and my mother is 60.)
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Choices - Jun 9, 2005 5:57 pm (#738 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
LOL I have your Mom beat - I am 62 and rereading the series for the 14th time and will be ready for HBP on the 16th. I have ordered two copies - one for me and one for my family to fight over. For the last two years I have done nothing but read the HP books over and over. Every time I even think about reading something else, I just can't imagine not being in a HP book for that long, so I go back to my rereading. Right now, I can't envision growing tired of them and am so happy at the prospect of having a 6th book to add to my rereading "orobouros".
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 6:18 pm (#739 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Choices, I wish I had a little more time to re-read the entire series, but I find that there is too much else that I want to read. I will probably read the 6th book and then re-read the others (I've never read PS/SS)....and yes, I feel horrible about that. I have it right next to me on the coffee table, in case I get an urge to pick it up between the other books I'm reading.
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Kwikspell - Jun 9, 2005 6:45 pm (#740 of 1448)
Marketers? Bah!
My husband and I have Cubs' tickets on July 16. I guess we weren't thinking straight when we got them in February. I think I should have the book read by then since we're getting them (one for me, one for my husband) at midnight on the 15th. If not, I'll just have to bring the book with me and indulge my two obsessions at once! (The tricky part was uninviting the in-laws who were supposed to be here that weekend for the game.)
I reread the whole series last month, but have started over again and am furiously marking up the books with notes.
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applepie - Jun 9, 2005 6:48 pm (#741 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
The tricky part was uninviting the in-laws who were supposed to be here that weekend for the game.
Kwikspell, how DID you pull that off?
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Madam Pince - Jun 9, 2005 8:52 pm (#742 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
KWeldon, I'm also in the middle of OoP right now, as a prep for HBP. I've been re-reading the whole series off-and-on for the past few months, but I didn't schedule myself very well because now I'm trying to stretch OoP out to last for 35 more days. Ha! -- fat chance -- although I probably won't read anything more strenuous than a magazine for the next week while we're on vacation. (I have been looking for a paperback copy of "The DaVinci Code" for my beach-read, but haven't been able to find one.)
I will probably fill in the last few days with a re-read of "Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter." It has some pretty good summaries and brings up some interesting questions.
My local K-Mart has one of those big cardboard stands with the tear-off sheets that say "___ days until HBP," and the other day I had this insane urge to go find the manager and tell them the tear-off sheet was wrong, because I happen to know the exact number of days, and their cardboard thingy was wrong. I wonder how many other people in that store were as bothered by that as I was?
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S.E. Jones - Jun 9, 2005 9:10 pm (#743 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Okay, I know we've been led away from the discussion of guessing who the HBP is, but I was thinking about it earlier. On the Godric's Hollow thread, we discussed the possibility of Dumbledore using a portrait to know that the Potters had been attacked and killed. If this is a possibility, could the person in the portrait who witnessed the attack be the HBP?
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Miriam Huber - Jun 9, 2005 10:42 pm (#744 of 1448)
That´s an interesting idea, SEJ! And we would meet the HBP because he would tell Harry about his parents?
But there would have to be two portraits, one at the Potter´s and the other with Dumbledore. The first might be destroyed, but where do you thing the other would hang? In D´s office? That would mean he probably was a headmaster of Hogwarts. Imagine Harry (and us) walking past this portrait several times when he was in Dumbledore´s office and never knowing how important it would become to him ...
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 10, 2005 1:14 am (#745 of 1448)
grindylow - I have ordered one of each UK version. I am now planning to try and get all the US versions - one for each of the books. But can't stop, am due in therapy very soon.
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Betelgeuse Black - Jun 10, 2005 6:56 am (#746 of 1448)
I'm a 42 year old man and I'm thinking of taking a vacation day the monday after the 16th so I can finish up the HBP.
I just started rereading the series but I picked up PoA as the starting point. By the 16th, I should be through GoF and OOTP.
Obsessed, yes....
Betelgeuse
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Grindylow - Jun 10, 2005 7:54 am (#747 of 1448)
Phelim-I am glad to know that I am not the only one with this problem! I have one set of hardback copies and one set of paperback copies of the US Version......
I am quashing my desire to get the UK versions too.....HELP!!!
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Veritaserum - Jun 10, 2005 8:04 am (#748 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Yeah...still need to order my copy of HBP...and reread the series. Haven't done any of that yet. Have so many other books to read! Maybe I'll at least read POA or OOP. Actually, I haven't read Goblet in a really long time...
Has anyone looked at the back cover of the UK kids version? It looks strikingly similar to the US version. Same green mist, same pensieve-ish thing...though on this version I think it looks more like a Goblet. And there's also some empty random boat floating in green water, and on the inside flaps there are two hands being linked by some magic-looking stuff.
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KWeldon - Jun 10, 2005 8:05 am (#749 of 1448)
HEY! TLC IS SHOWING IMAGES OF THE BACK COVER OF THE UK BOOK!!
Edit: cross-posted with Veritasatum.
Way cool! I wonder what the fire around the joined hands is? Some kind of magical bond? What body of water is the boat on, and why is it empty? Is it the lake by Hogwarts? Is it a boat that takes the first years?
There is also a ring on the spine! Is it Dumbledore's? The HBP? Godric Gryffindor's?
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 10, 2005 8:05 am (#750 of 1448)
Hi,
I'm a sixty year old, PhD and college prof who is loves the Boston Red Sox and Harry Potter. I began rereading the entire series two months ago. I've been monitoring my progress carefully, but I've blown it. I'm about one-third through OotP. I don't think I can stretch it out another five weeks or so. Well, I'll have to reread the last few chapters. They're filled with so many answers, yet create so many questions ....
I also just studied the latest cover art from the British children's edition. It shows the back page and the folding inserts. WOW!
An island that is a circular foundation made of dressed, laid blocks of gray stone arranged in a pattern of twelve radii.
A circular, stone plinth in the center is arranged in pattern of six radii.
Upon the plinth is a circular, barrel-shaped column with a base of four, single-clawed toes.
A broad, shallow dish rests atop the column.
A bright, golden liquid is in the dish.
A great, golden light emanates from the dish illuminating the cavern and the pond surrounding the stony island.
A small, single thwarted boat illuminated by the light is reflected in the surface of the pond.
The sidewall of the cave illuminated by the light is gray, cracked and gives the appearance of being a large arching vault that extends into darkness above and beyond.
The folding inserts are, perhaps, even more interesting:
Two hands, dexter, clasped with thumb enclosed in opposing fist both entwined by golden, fiery ropes.
The arm on the right is sinewy and youthful, as that of a young man. The arm on the left is softer and less well muscled, yet youthful, as that of a young woman.
Both are clothed in grayish black material, the sleeves of which are rolled up to partially expose the lower arm.
The appearance is that of arm wrestlers, whose wrists are bound to prevent either from withdrawing.
Conclusion:
1. We speculated about the Chamber of Secrets. This cover might indeed be a grotto hidden within that Chamber. I suspect that the dish atop the claw-footed column is a Pensieve.
2. The two arms is intriguing. What young man and young woman could be arm wrestling? Why are they locked in combat? What is the golden rope that restrains them?
I am tempted to suggest Harry and Hermione, but that doesn't make any sense.
I look forward to all your comments.
WOW! Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 751 to 800)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:39 am
Tomoé - Jun 10, 2005 8:59 am (#751 of 1448)
Back in business
The basin looks like the one on the US cover, it is likely a key moment of the story (I'm thinking of a pensive with thoughts about the half-blood prince). Like Joanne, I thought the cave could be linked to the Chamber of Secrets some how.
About the two hand, I've got the impression that the right one is from a old person, maybe it's just me. Anyway, I thought "it's Harry and Dumbledore" when I frist saw it.
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Netherlandic - Jun 10, 2005 9:03 am (#752 of 1448)
I am wondering about the rowing boat. An underground grotto of some kind?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 9:29 am (#753 of 1448)
When I saw the two hands I thought Dumbledore and Harry. It looks like a ceremony to me. A "secret" handshake or some way to bind the two people together. Maybe because of who Harry is he is accepted in the Order.
My husband and I were on a road trip last week. I was listening to OoP on CD. As soon as we got home he started re reading the books. We are 38 years old. He is not as obsessed as I am but enough that I will be purchasing two books on the 16th. LPO
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Steve Newton - Jun 10, 2005 9:35 am (#754 of 1448)
Librarian
Is that a ring or a watch where the spine would be?
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 9:40 am (#755 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I must have missed the reference to the site that you all are referencing about the books. Please enlighten me. Where can I find the pictures?
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Choices - Jun 10, 2005 9:41 am (#756 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Perhaps the grotto is where the first years land before disembarking for the castle. It was described that one time in book one and then never mentioned again. Then again, it could be an entirely different place.
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Tomoé - Jun 10, 2005 9:46 am (#757 of 1448)
Back in business
applepie, you can find the picture at The Leaky Cauldron, here.
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GryffEndora - Jun 10, 2005 9:48 am (#758 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Tomoe - also agree with you and thing the clasped hands are of Harry and Dumbledore. Most likely because they are the only 2 people on the cover and both seem to be clothed with black sleeves on the cover. I'm still fascinated by the gold inverted triangle pictured around Harry's scar. Truly curious.
applepie - if you go the the Lex home then click on news you'll get the Leaky Cauldron new page and the link is there, I will try to post it here in a minute.
*edit Thanks for posting the link Tomoe. applepie look above my post at Tomoe!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 9:59 am (#759 of 1448)
The stream of flame that surrounds the clasped hands looks like a smaller one than what is surrounding DD and Harry on the cover.
Steve I think it is a ring. Maybe the HBP insignia? LPO
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Steve Newton - Jun 10, 2005 10:08 am (#760 of 1448)
Librarian
LPO, thanks. I was wondering of it could be Dumbledore's watch. I'll go with your answer.
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GryffEndora - Jun 10, 2005 10:20 am (#761 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
It's definately a ring. A gold band with a dark gray or silver stone moonstone or hematite?. The stone has a design down the center from top to bottom that looks like a crack. It comes from left to right then right to left then left to right and finally very short and thin right to left. kind of like the lightning bolt zig-zag but with 4 zags instead of 3. The stone could also be metal like silver or pewter.
If it is moonstone which has been mentioned before this is what I could find on it through a google search that led me to tween the shadows dot com: Silver Grey Moonstone Invoking the reflective, intuitive power and Goddess energy of the waning moon, this silver-grey stone eases frustrations and lends a greater ability ability to flow and move in harmony natural tides of life.
Also found these stones: Chalcedony, Gray Calcite, Gray Muscovite, Gray-Silver Cuprithe, Hematite, Magnetite (Lodestone), Pyrolusite, Gray Agate
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 10:25 am (#762 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Thanks, Tomoé and GryffEndora. That was very interesting.
I do agree that it is a ring.
The hands don't appear to me to be Dumbledore's. I would think that they are that of an adult, but I would think Dumbledore's arm might look a bit older that that. (And, I'm not trying to imply anything to our older forum members). My first thought (however irrational it may be) was that it might have been Harry pulling Sirius through the veil....Wasn't there a post somewhere about him possibly being able to walk through at Halloween??? If I'm off my rocker here, please excuse me.
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Tomoé - Jun 10, 2005 10:37 am (#763 of 1448)
Back in business
Steve, at first I thought the thing on the spin was a watch, but then realise that the lightning line could hardly be hands. So I now think it's a ring.
I have a bad felling about the hand shake, I don't know exactly why, I have the feeling they are about to fight against someone else (Voldemort?) and know the chances are really thin that they both survive (and in fact Dumbledore won't).
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 10:40 am (#764 of 1448)
You have great eyes GryffEndora! I wonder if the lightening bolt zig zag is connected to Harry's scar. Since both the American and UK editions have Dumbledore and Harry on the covers. I assume that the clasped hands belong to them. I like your idea about it being Sirius Applepie. Traditionally the veil is thin between our world and the Otherworld on Halloween, or All Hallows Eve. I think he will remain dead though. JKR has stated that once people are dead there is no coming back. LPO
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 10:51 am (#765 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Yeah, you are probably right. I guess it was just my subconscience wanting him to have more contact with Sirius at some point.
Did someone already mention emotional magic in the handshake? It looks as though it could be that as well.
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KWeldon - Jun 10, 2005 11:02 am (#766 of 1448)
The clasped hands remind me of the blood brother oath of native American Indians, where two warriors would cut their palms open, clasp palms and exchange blood, thereby swearing an oath of brotherhood. I don't know if that oath included a promise of dying to protect the other one.
Perhaps this is an analogous pact.
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Potterhead - Jun 10, 2005 11:02 am (#767 of 1448)
My very first thought about the hands was Harry and LV. This is because I just finished listening to GoF and was particularly struck by what Dumbledore says to Sirius about priori incantatum - that when a wand meets its brother, they will not work properly against each other. Though Harry and LV do not have to, per se, duel to fight each other (LV at this point would probably prefer to AK Harry when he isn't looking), this made me wonder all over again just how Harry and LV will fight if/when it comes to that again (in OOtP, he just possessed Harry, if I'm not mistaken). So when I saw the hand-to-hand, I actually thought of combat. The fire ring does not make it seem the friendliest of joinings. But this is probably just from too much Jim Dale in my head. LV's hands and wrists would undoubtedly look much more ethereal and deadened than the one on the cover, anyway. (Ducking dungbombs now)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 11:16 am (#768 of 1448)
KWeldon I see it as some king of a pact or ceremony also. Maybe it is emotional magic. I hope we find out more about emotional magic! Potterhead I did not think of Voldemort. Maybe he and Harry are arm wrestling! I don't know about the fire ring. On the cover of the UK version DD looks very surprised. So I do not know if it is friend or foe. LPO
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Gina R Snape - Jun 10, 2005 11:17 am (#769 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
KWeldon, I thought the same thing! I think it's a 'power handshake' sealed with magic, to give strength before a battle or something similar.
I wonder of the ring belongs to the HbP, the way Princes, Kings and even the Pope wear an official ring.
I wonder if they had to take the rowboat to get to the pensieve on the pillar. Perhaps DD and Harry go through the woods to an inlet of the river/lake and take the boat to some cave somewhere, or something like that.
Oh, and my immediate response was also that the hands belonged to Harry and DD.
BTW, here's the direct link to the picture at Bloomsbury. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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KTO - Jun 10, 2005 11:39 am (#770 of 1448)
My first thought was the one arm was Harry's and the other Voldermort's, does not look old enough to be DD's. Can you imagine the discussions if we actually got the written preview along with the picture, peoples computers might explode.
As an aside, I am rereading OOTP and have just finished the part where Hermione is once again explaining girls to Harry and Ron. I am hoping there is a scene in HBP where Hermione goes up to Ron', takes his face in her hands, gives him a big kiss and with a hint of frustration yells "you are the one I like, now figure out what to do about it" and storms off.
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Elanor - Jun 10, 2005 11:56 am (#771 of 1448)
My first thought was that Harry was arm-wrestling, but I like the idea that it is a kind of magical bound between Harry and DD very much.
Gina, the ring reminded me of kings and popes' rings at once too. They were very important and were sometimes used for putting seals. If it is the HBP's ring, then I bet it has magical properties!
GryffEndora, I love the idea that the stone on the ring may be a "Silver Grey Moonstone". It would fit so well with our theory that the HBP is the silver book! I'll post that on the alchemy thread!
Accio HBP!
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vball man - Jun 10, 2005 12:18 pm (#772 of 1448)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
"Fine!" said the high-pitched voice, "If our wands won't duel, then - we arm wrestle!"
What if it is a means of passing along Dumbledore's magical powers? I have been theorizing that there is a recurring cycle of boys who lived (RBL theory). But what if there's actually two cycles? One of bad wizards (Slythering...? other wizards ?...Grindelwald, Voldemort), and one of good wizards? Gryffindor...? other wizards ?...Flammel, Dumbledore)? In this case, Slytherin's power would be passed on through the boys who lived, who go bad, and Gryffindor's power would be passed on voluntarily through the "handshake of fire."
This would certainly have Harry uniting the wizarding world.
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frogface - Jun 10, 2005 12:19 pm (#773 of 1448)
Sirius' father had a ring didn't he? Kreacher tries to stop them getting rid of it when they are cleaning the house. Think it could possible be connected to this? I don't personally believe it myself but its the only ring I could remember from the rest of the series so I thought I'd throw the idea out there.
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Diagon Nilly - Jun 10, 2005 12:31 pm (#774 of 1448)
I agree with whoever said Dumbledore's arm would look "older", that arm clearly belongs to an adult...tho' not female since the nails are short and the fingers are broad.
I dunno, I see those hands clasped in comraderie, protection, and combining of powers (those rings of fire are too similar to the ones around Harry & Dumbledore, so they feel more protective than vexing).
Sirius would be a good choice for the Mystery Arm, 'cept JKR said he's dead and he's staying dead.
Lupin maybe? Or maybe Snape?
Maybe Lupin joins up with Harry in defeating Voldy and gains some (much deserved) respect amongst the WW.
Or, could Snape and Harry set aside their differences to bring down the Voldy? Ha! Then Snape backstabs Harry in an attempt to take the Dark Lord's place...very Lord of the Sith...or Lord of the Dance...or Lords of Dogtown. Lord of something, anyway.
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Kwikspell - Jun 10, 2005 12:54 pm (#775 of 1448)
Marketers? Bah!
My first impression was that the arms belong to Harry and LV. The muscles standing out on the wrist of the right arm makes it look like they're locked in a struggle or a VERY firm handshake. However, I really like vball man's idea that it's DD channeling magic to Harry. I would imagine that a transference of that level of power would also cause one's arm to tense up.
Did we ever learn if the Hogwarts lake was natural or man-made? If the lake was created by the Founders, I wonder if the claw-toed basin contains the memories of the Founders and accessible through a secret grotto passage known only to Headmaster. Have we determined that the basin is, indeed a Penseive?
Going back several posts, applepie--my husband had that happy task. He pulled a Ginny and lied very convincingly, claiming the tickets were actually for the 4th of July weekend. Now, we just have to get tickets for that weekend...
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 12:54 pm (#776 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
KTO - "you are the one I like, now figure out what to do about it" and storms off.
I love that idea....too funny!
I get the feeling that the arms are clasped in a desparate act to help someone. Maybe someone falling who needs a hand. Definitely an adult male, though not as old as DD. The graphic around the hands could be some emotional magic, or implying the "heat of the moment" as in a rescue... just thinking out loud here.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 12:54 pm (#777 of 1448)
Lots of Lords Diagon Nilly. Dumbledore is old but strong. Maybe his arms don't look as old as his face. There are veins drawn on the arm. I don't know if they are for age or exertion. Vball man I hope they are uniting powers not passing them on. DD can't die. LPO
edt. for clarity
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Doris Crockford - Jun 10, 2005 1:06 pm (#778 of 1448)
Originally, I thought the 'older' arm belongs to Dumbledore, and that he and Harry are arm-wrestling. I think that it looks old enough to be Dumbledore's. But then I looked at the fire, and it looks to me like the fire is circled around the left wrist (Harry's). It might just be a stylistic thing, but it looks like the circle of fire is keeping Harry's arm in place.
Diagon Nilly, I agree that the fire around the arms are similar to that around Harry and Dumbledore, but I think that both Harry and Dumbledore's faces look scared in the front panel. Of course, I almost always associate fire with bad things, even though Fawkes burst into flame and he's a good guy.
Frogface, that was my first thought about the ring. When I looked in OoP, though, it describes the ring as gold with the Black family crest on it, and the thing in the centre of the ring doesn't look much like a crest to me.
I keep looking at the boat, and when I look at the reflection of the boat, I see a shape that looks like a person sitting in the boat, but there is no one actually sitting in the boat. Can anyone else see that, or am I going crazy waiting for July 16?
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Madam Pince - Jun 10, 2005 1:35 pm (#779 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Wow! Exciting new news! I love that cover!
My first impression is that the arms belong to Dumbledore and Harry. I think the picture of Dumbly on the front cover looks rather young-ish (for Dumbledore, anyway) and in my opinion he looks strong and vital, rather than aged and feeble or something. Since the front cover and the arms were probably drawn by the same artist and thus have the same "interpretation" of Dumbledore, I'm thinking the arm belongs to someone more ... ahem.... mature, but certainly still strong. The hands from the front cover look similar to the ones on the flap to me.
I also think that the "rope of fire" is some sort of magical binding of Harry and Dumbledore, quite possibly a transfer or sharing of power from Dumbledore to Harry. It rather puts me in mind of someone who is caught in a storm at sea and lashes himself to the mast for protection. After all, Dumbledore has spent most of his time protecting Harry -- if they are together facing Voldy in battle, I'm betting Dumbledore would want to pull Harry to him and envelop him in whatever protective spells or shared powers that he could. (***especially if he knows he - Dumbledore - is about to die, but I digress ***)
The ring -- I'm thinking it is the official ring of the HBP. It would be very neat if the stone is moonstone -- remember Snape setting that essay to the kids on the properties and uses of moonstone in OoP? That would fit neatly with my theory that Snape has been structuring his teachings toward providing Harry with vital information that he will need to know someday -- I see Snape as being rather like a "drill sergeant" because he will not coddle and will even seem to be mean, but is actually trying to prepare the student for self-preservation.
The boat -- I have no idea, which really ticks me off. My immediate thought was the island to which the Dursleys and Harry went in the very first book, but that doesn't seem to make much sense. It seems too small to be one of the Hogwarts boats that first-years take to the castle upon arrival. I just don't know. And it's odd how the greenish glow seems to just immediately surround the boat and illuminate the bottom in the water right around it. If we assume the bowl is the Pensieve, and the green glow is a preserved memory, then presumably the boat would be something crucial from the past that someone has stored as a memory. However, I have no idea what that could be, and why would the boat and only the boat be greenish, rather than the whole "scene," if that makes any sense?
OK, now where's Scholastic's back cover??? I'm dying to see GrandPre's interpretation.....
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S.E. Jones - Jun 10, 2005 1:41 pm (#780 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Wasn't Dumbledore's watch described as a pocket watch? If so, then the thing on the spine couldn't be his watch. I'm voting for it being a ring.
I find it interesting that the boat is glowing. Is that just so we pay attention to it, or for some other reason.... You know, I'm wondering now if 'Spinners End' is a wharf or something....
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Delightful Task! - Jun 10, 2005 1:48 pm (#781 of 1448)
Hmmm, I agree with you Doris Crockford! The reflection doesn't exactly correspond to the boat! But why? I don't know!
About the pensieve... I immediately thought of the chamber of secrets! Could this grotto be gryffindor's chamber of secrets? Where he could have kept his own pensieve, with his memories... I always thought it was weird the first years arrived through the lake. Of course it's because they need to arrive after the others for the sorting hat... But I always thought JKR wanted us to know that you could arrive into Hogwarts from the lake... And of course, the giant squid, (whoever that might be!) might be protecting something too... (On the other hand, in the new poll, JKR talks about "THE" pensieve, as if there was only one...)
I'm not sure the arms are wrestling (The position of the thumbs is weird,). I rather thought they were "sharing" something. Either one is helping the other, or it could be a kind of ritual, a bond being created... I immediately thought of Harry and Snape... An adult, but not an old man... But as you all seem to think it must be DD, you must be right!
And the fire could be coming from... the ring finger of the older hand? (although I'm not too sure about that!)
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GryffEndora - Jun 10, 2005 1:48 pm (#782 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
S.E. Jones, I'm wondering now if 'Spinners End' is a wharf or something....
I love that idea!!! A spinner is also a type of fishing lure, as I'm sure you know S.E. Jones, but I just had to throw in my 2 knuts with yours. Great theory!
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Steve Newton - Jun 10, 2005 1:54 pm (#783 of 1448)
Librarian
As I recall it the first years arrive by boat under Hogwarts. (It's been a while since I read this.) This could be where they land.
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librarian314 - Jun 10, 2005 1:57 pm (#784 of 1448)
Hey all!
I just checked out the book jacket; I even plopped it into photoshop to look at it more closely.
I think that the squiggle on the ring might be a snake. When I zoom in I see a tapered head at the top and a tapered tail at the bottom. This makes me think it might be Salazar Slytherin's ring.
On the front cover, DD looks not so much scared as focused and a touch angry. Sort of a cross between the Duke of York at the beginning of the battle of Agincourt in Kenneth Brannagh's Henry V (played by Brian Blessed) and a Charleton Heston style Moses. He also looks as though he's in the middle of saying something.
Harry, on the other hand looks worried, like he can't quite believe what he's seeing.
The clasped arms reminded me of a hand fasting ceremony, where the couple's hand are bound with ribbons, so I'm in the camp of those that think it a binding spell of some sort. I thought that the older looking arm might belong to Moody.
Y'all take care!
*michelle the librarian**
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bella - Jun 10, 2005 1:59 pm (#785 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I am going to go out on a limb about the boat. The first thing I thought when I saw the reflection was invisibility cloak.
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Madam Pince - Jun 10, 2005 2:33 pm (#786 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Michelle, I think you may be right about the ring having a snake-like squiggle on it. That was my first impression too -- that it had something to do with Salazar Slytherin. Then I thought it looked like a lightning bolt, but I'm back to snake again now. Don't know why -- just a feeling.
Great thought, bella! Do we know from anywhere whether an Invisibility Cloak also covers up your reflection, as well as your straightforward appearance? If not, then that could surely be it -- somebody skulking in a boat!
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 10, 2005 2:40 pm (#787 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Since I don't have anything productive to add to the analysis of the cover, I'm going to jump back to S.E.Jones' idea that a portrait that witnessed the events at Godric's Hollow could be the HBP.
A chapter similar to the first chapter of HBP was one of the discarded first chapters of SS/PS, leading many to guess that it will deal with the night Harry's parents died. This makes sense, because it almost has to have something to do with the past. CoS, however, was not one of the books that JKR considered using this first chapter in. So, if the first chapter of HBP is about the fateful night in Godric's Hollow, I don't think a portrait, or person, for that matter, who was involved in the events there is going to be the HBP.
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So Sirius - Jun 10, 2005 2:55 pm (#788 of 1448)
Regarding the new book cover pictures; To me, it looks like whatever that is, spinning, around their wrists is also, spinning around them in larger form. I wonder if this graveyard JKR spoke about on the grounds is someplace near the boats? That interesting glowing object almost looks like it's got a claw at the bottom.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 4:07 pm (#789 of 1448)
I am Used Vlad I agree that the chapter is probably about the night when Harry's parents died. It will be very interesting to see whose point of view we well get during the chapter. I do not think anyone else was there. I am anxious to find out why Lily and James never told DD about changing their secret keeper. It seems it would be very important to keep him informed. I also wonder if the Longbottoms were in hiding also. JKR has talked about the impact of the prophecy on Neville. LPO
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Suspero - Jun 10, 2005 5:36 pm (#790 of 1448)
Professor
Wow! Just what us hungry souls needed! I can't thank you enough, Tomoe, for posting that link.
Here's my thoughts and observations: First, the obvious that the dish on the pedestal is the same thing they are looking into on the front cover of the U.S. edition. The glowing boat seems magical -- their means of arrival or their method of escape? The base of the pedestal looks like a bird's talons/claws to me, so here's my first bit of speculation: Could this be Gryffindor's secret chamber? Perhaps all four founders created special chambers, or at least Gryffindor in reaction to Slytherin? I always wondered who created The Room of Requirement and why.
Second, as an artist and sometimes illustrator: The yellow triangle on Harry's forehead surrounding his scar is such a definite shape, I don't think it's any accident. Is it symbolic of his mother? I never noticed the lower right area of that front cover before -- those are jets of flame (one or two?). is the fire something that protects the secret and they have to get through it? Is it an attack by Voldemort? And the green... is that still emanating from the basin?
Thirdly, I think it's Dumbledore's hand and Harry's clasped in some bond and the helix of flame is like those ancient vow ties. But what's the bond about? Some additional power or protection Harry had not received placed on him by Dumbledore? Or a commitment or oath between them? Dumbledore is described as surprisingly strong and energetic for his apparent age. The wrist in this picture reminds me of Renaissance paintings of strong working arms, and also of some sculptors I know who are well beyond sixty now.
Lastly, I'm more and more expecting that the end of Book 6 will leave us breathlessly anticipating Book 7 and the two books will be linked, as if Book 7 was a continuation.
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Miriam Huber - Jun 10, 2005 11:29 pm (#791 of 1448)
JKR said so. She said they were like two halves of one book. One of my points to assume that book 6 will NOT have a face-to-face Harry-to-Voldemort showdown. Would be a bit much in my opinion. Whe had a break from it in PoA and I think it is time for another break before the showdown in 7.
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Regan of Gong - Jun 11, 2005 1:31 am (#792 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Good thought Miriam, it sounds feasible.
I think the ring is a seal, like the ones used by royals. And doesn't the snake/lightning bolt design on it look like the snake described on the tap in the girls bathroom in chamber?
Regan
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 11, 2005 5:03 am (#793 of 1448)
Having looked at an enlarged version of the cover at the Bloomsbury site, I think the ring is a signet ring. The shape is either lightening or a snake.
I think the two arms are identical. Could someone use polyjuice potion to try and impersonate Harry? Could Neville or Ron do so to try and save Harry? If so how would Harry's protection and link with Voldemort affect them?
As to the bowl, I don't think it is the pensive that DD uses. But the stand it is on.... reminds me of a clawed foot. For this reason I don't think it is something to do with the boats that take them to Hogwarts across the lake. Could this be in another part of the Chamber of Secrets? It has a dark magic feel to it.
Oh roll on July 16th so I can find out.
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frogface - Jun 11, 2005 6:40 am (#794 of 1448)
The green light does seem to indicate dark magic. Many people have suggested that Harry and DD will look into a pensieve that has the recorded memorys of what happened that night at Godric's Hollow, and after seeing all that green light, I'm certainly convinced that if it is a pensieve it looks like it holds the memory of Avada Kedavra being used, what with all that green light.
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GryffEndora - Jun 11, 2005 7:09 am (#795 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The clawed foot on the pedistal brings a few things to mind. The first thing is that Moody has a clawed foot. The founder that it makes me think of is Ravenclaw, since She is symbolized with an Eagle. Didn't Jo say we would learn more about the Gray Lady? Perhaps it happens in this book. If the pedestal is connected to Gryffindor I guess it could be the foot of a Griffin or a Phoenix although his symbol is a Lion and you'd think he'd keep the theme, after all Slytherin stuck with serpents. I don't know what any of this means but those are the things I could think of.
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Suspero - Jun 11, 2005 7:37 am (#796 of 1448)
Professor
Hello, everyone, I'm enjoying this so much -- thanks for helping to pass the waiting hours until we have that book!
My thoughts on the ring: It looks to me like a cracked gemstone. I'm fascinated by the idea that the crack mirrors Harry's scar. Some stones are associated with royalty and with good luck. Legend has it that since the Crusades hematite or bloodstone gives the bearer strength and good luck. The setting doesn't offer any clues to me, I'm afraid, but I don't see any signet seal or design, only that lightning-like crack (maybe the clues are with my braincloud from "Joe Versus the Volcano"? Good movie, but, boy!, that's a stretch).
About the green glow -- it doesn't seem to me that green represents ONLY and exclusively "dark magic", but more a matter of very old magic and very powerful or deep magic. Slytherin may be green but so are Harry's and Lily's eyes.
Could Dumbledore have worked his charm on Harry (or was Lily also to help?) by linking all kinds of ancient magic from all sides?
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Veritaserum - Jun 11, 2005 8:02 am (#797 of 1448)
Go Jays!
And now for something slightly different: I had been leaning toward the idea that the basin on the US cover was a pensieve, though I don't think there are very many of them. However, the dish on the UK cover I think looks attached to its stem, which would give it more of a goblet shape than a Pensieve, which I always thought was just a bowl.
Secondly, did the boat remind anyone else of Charon and crossing the Acheron like in Dante's Inferno and other legends about the underworld? That's definitely what first popped into my head. If anyone's read The Amber Spyglass, this reminds me of the man who rowed them to the world of the dead (who was, of course, supposed to be Charon or whoever.) Perhaps Harry actually goes beyond the veil for some reason.
As for the hand clasp, I definitely think it is a "friendly" gesture. A gesture like "We're going to take this together." My first reaction was that it was Harry and Ron, just because it looked like a brotherly kind of thing, and those two are very nearly brothers. It reminds me of Red Rover, you know the game where everyone links hands and try to keep people from penetrating? It strikes me as a "united we stand" kind of deal, that they are putting their two strengths together to fight some kind of foe.
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Catherine - Jun 11, 2005 8:56 am (#798 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Okay, I know we've been led away from the discussion of guessing who the HBP is, but I was thinking about it earlier. On the Godric's Hollow thread, we discussed the possibility of Dumbledore using a portrait to know that the Potters had been attacked and killed. If this is a possibility, could the person in the portrait who witnessed the attack be the HBP? S. E. Jones
Sarah, I have wondered this myself, if perhaps Dumbledore had a portrait "check-in" with the Potters, and perhaps the portrait was, due to the fact that the house was rubble, unable to access its other frame and make contact. This could explain how Dumbledore "knew" to send Hagrid to the scene so quickly.
Of course, given the Fidelius Charm, the whole thing confuses me and makes my head hurt.
As to the identity of this theoretical portrait, it would not suprise me in the least if James Potter had a famous wizard in his family history. James was pretty confident at Hogwarts, and seemed to get away with hexing people "just because he can," according to Lily. James seems, in OoP, to come off as a bit of a "pampered prince" type, and is best friends with Sirius, who had a headmaster in his family.
Would this portrait be "the half-blood prince?" Maybe.....
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Ydnam96 - Jun 11, 2005 8:58 am (#799 of 1448)
I too thought the hand clasp was one of friendship. In fact, if you look the hand on the right looks older than the hand on the left. It could be DD's hand. Perhaps he is passing on some sort of power or performing some sort of magic that will help Harry. Or perhaps they are being magically bonded together- you know, the only one VM ever feared bonded with Harry. That would be quite a formidable force to be reckoned with.
The boat is very interesting as well. I wonder if Harry will somehow have to take a boat to the other side of the lake for some reason, maybe that is where the graveyard is? Although, it does appear to be in a cave. So you all may be correct in that it might be a way into the chamber.
(I also find myself now wondering if there is some significance in the fact that every year the 1st years cross the lake in the boats but no one else does...wonder if that has something to do with it all???)
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 11, 2005 9:41 am (#800 of 1448)
The light surrounding the pensieve seems to tunnel downward to the prow of the boat.Perhaps the memory in the pensieve takes Dumbledore and Harry to the boat which might lead to Godrics Hollow.(I'm hoping!)The hand clasp seems to be a friendly one-I like Vball Man's theory of it being a transfer of magical powers to Harry "he will have powers the dark lord knows not." Are we sure that is a vein on the wrist? Maybe its a scar. Ooh..the ring.Of course its Dumbledore's signet ring.He is the HBP afterall.
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Back in business
The basin looks like the one on the US cover, it is likely a key moment of the story (I'm thinking of a pensive with thoughts about the half-blood prince). Like Joanne, I thought the cave could be linked to the Chamber of Secrets some how.
About the two hand, I've got the impression that the right one is from a old person, maybe it's just me. Anyway, I thought "it's Harry and Dumbledore" when I frist saw it.
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Netherlandic - Jun 10, 2005 9:03 am (#752 of 1448)
I am wondering about the rowing boat. An underground grotto of some kind?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 9:29 am (#753 of 1448)
When I saw the two hands I thought Dumbledore and Harry. It looks like a ceremony to me. A "secret" handshake or some way to bind the two people together. Maybe because of who Harry is he is accepted in the Order.
My husband and I were on a road trip last week. I was listening to OoP on CD. As soon as we got home he started re reading the books. We are 38 years old. He is not as obsessed as I am but enough that I will be purchasing two books on the 16th. LPO
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Steve Newton - Jun 10, 2005 9:35 am (#754 of 1448)
Librarian
Is that a ring or a watch where the spine would be?
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 9:40 am (#755 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
I must have missed the reference to the site that you all are referencing about the books. Please enlighten me. Where can I find the pictures?
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Choices - Jun 10, 2005 9:41 am (#756 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Perhaps the grotto is where the first years land before disembarking for the castle. It was described that one time in book one and then never mentioned again. Then again, it could be an entirely different place.
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Tomoé - Jun 10, 2005 9:46 am (#757 of 1448)
Back in business
applepie, you can find the picture at The Leaky Cauldron, here.
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GryffEndora - Jun 10, 2005 9:48 am (#758 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Tomoe - also agree with you and thing the clasped hands are of Harry and Dumbledore. Most likely because they are the only 2 people on the cover and both seem to be clothed with black sleeves on the cover. I'm still fascinated by the gold inverted triangle pictured around Harry's scar. Truly curious.
applepie - if you go the the Lex home then click on news you'll get the Leaky Cauldron new page and the link is there, I will try to post it here in a minute.
*edit Thanks for posting the link Tomoe. applepie look above my post at Tomoe!
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 9:59 am (#759 of 1448)
The stream of flame that surrounds the clasped hands looks like a smaller one than what is surrounding DD and Harry on the cover.
Steve I think it is a ring. Maybe the HBP insignia? LPO
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Steve Newton - Jun 10, 2005 10:08 am (#760 of 1448)
Librarian
LPO, thanks. I was wondering of it could be Dumbledore's watch. I'll go with your answer.
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GryffEndora - Jun 10, 2005 10:20 am (#761 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
It's definately a ring. A gold band with a dark gray or silver stone moonstone or hematite?. The stone has a design down the center from top to bottom that looks like a crack. It comes from left to right then right to left then left to right and finally very short and thin right to left. kind of like the lightning bolt zig-zag but with 4 zags instead of 3. The stone could also be metal like silver or pewter.
If it is moonstone which has been mentioned before this is what I could find on it through a google search that led me to tween the shadows dot com: Silver Grey Moonstone Invoking the reflective, intuitive power and Goddess energy of the waning moon, this silver-grey stone eases frustrations and lends a greater ability ability to flow and move in harmony natural tides of life.
Also found these stones: Chalcedony, Gray Calcite, Gray Muscovite, Gray-Silver Cuprithe, Hematite, Magnetite (Lodestone), Pyrolusite, Gray Agate
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 10:25 am (#762 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Thanks, Tomoé and GryffEndora. That was very interesting.
I do agree that it is a ring.
The hands don't appear to me to be Dumbledore's. I would think that they are that of an adult, but I would think Dumbledore's arm might look a bit older that that. (And, I'm not trying to imply anything to our older forum members). My first thought (however irrational it may be) was that it might have been Harry pulling Sirius through the veil....Wasn't there a post somewhere about him possibly being able to walk through at Halloween??? If I'm off my rocker here, please excuse me.
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Tomoé - Jun 10, 2005 10:37 am (#763 of 1448)
Back in business
Steve, at first I thought the thing on the spin was a watch, but then realise that the lightning line could hardly be hands. So I now think it's a ring.
I have a bad felling about the hand shake, I don't know exactly why, I have the feeling they are about to fight against someone else (Voldemort?) and know the chances are really thin that they both survive (and in fact Dumbledore won't).
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 10:40 am (#764 of 1448)
You have great eyes GryffEndora! I wonder if the lightening bolt zig zag is connected to Harry's scar. Since both the American and UK editions have Dumbledore and Harry on the covers. I assume that the clasped hands belong to them. I like your idea about it being Sirius Applepie. Traditionally the veil is thin between our world and the Otherworld on Halloween, or All Hallows Eve. I think he will remain dead though. JKR has stated that once people are dead there is no coming back. LPO
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 10:51 am (#765 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
Yeah, you are probably right. I guess it was just my subconscience wanting him to have more contact with Sirius at some point.
Did someone already mention emotional magic in the handshake? It looks as though it could be that as well.
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KWeldon - Jun 10, 2005 11:02 am (#766 of 1448)
The clasped hands remind me of the blood brother oath of native American Indians, where two warriors would cut their palms open, clasp palms and exchange blood, thereby swearing an oath of brotherhood. I don't know if that oath included a promise of dying to protect the other one.
Perhaps this is an analogous pact.
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Potterhead - Jun 10, 2005 11:02 am (#767 of 1448)
My very first thought about the hands was Harry and LV. This is because I just finished listening to GoF and was particularly struck by what Dumbledore says to Sirius about priori incantatum - that when a wand meets its brother, they will not work properly against each other. Though Harry and LV do not have to, per se, duel to fight each other (LV at this point would probably prefer to AK Harry when he isn't looking), this made me wonder all over again just how Harry and LV will fight if/when it comes to that again (in OOtP, he just possessed Harry, if I'm not mistaken). So when I saw the hand-to-hand, I actually thought of combat. The fire ring does not make it seem the friendliest of joinings. But this is probably just from too much Jim Dale in my head. LV's hands and wrists would undoubtedly look much more ethereal and deadened than the one on the cover, anyway. (Ducking dungbombs now)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 11:16 am (#768 of 1448)
KWeldon I see it as some king of a pact or ceremony also. Maybe it is emotional magic. I hope we find out more about emotional magic! Potterhead I did not think of Voldemort. Maybe he and Harry are arm wrestling! I don't know about the fire ring. On the cover of the UK version DD looks very surprised. So I do not know if it is friend or foe. LPO
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Gina R Snape - Jun 10, 2005 11:17 am (#769 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
KWeldon, I thought the same thing! I think it's a 'power handshake' sealed with magic, to give strength before a battle or something similar.
I wonder of the ring belongs to the HbP, the way Princes, Kings and even the Pope wear an official ring.
I wonder if they had to take the rowboat to get to the pensieve on the pillar. Perhaps DD and Harry go through the woods to an inlet of the river/lake and take the boat to some cave somewhere, or something like that.
Oh, and my immediate response was also that the hands belonged to Harry and DD.
BTW, here's the direct link to the picture at Bloomsbury. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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KTO - Jun 10, 2005 11:39 am (#770 of 1448)
My first thought was the one arm was Harry's and the other Voldermort's, does not look old enough to be DD's. Can you imagine the discussions if we actually got the written preview along with the picture, peoples computers might explode.
As an aside, I am rereading OOTP and have just finished the part where Hermione is once again explaining girls to Harry and Ron. I am hoping there is a scene in HBP where Hermione goes up to Ron', takes his face in her hands, gives him a big kiss and with a hint of frustration yells "you are the one I like, now figure out what to do about it" and storms off.
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Elanor - Jun 10, 2005 11:56 am (#771 of 1448)
My first thought was that Harry was arm-wrestling, but I like the idea that it is a kind of magical bound between Harry and DD very much.
Gina, the ring reminded me of kings and popes' rings at once too. They were very important and were sometimes used for putting seals. If it is the HBP's ring, then I bet it has magical properties!
GryffEndora, I love the idea that the stone on the ring may be a "Silver Grey Moonstone". It would fit so well with our theory that the HBP is the silver book! I'll post that on the alchemy thread!
Accio HBP!
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vball man - Jun 10, 2005 12:18 pm (#772 of 1448)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
"Fine!" said the high-pitched voice, "If our wands won't duel, then - we arm wrestle!"
What if it is a means of passing along Dumbledore's magical powers? I have been theorizing that there is a recurring cycle of boys who lived (RBL theory). But what if there's actually two cycles? One of bad wizards (Slythering...? other wizards ?...Grindelwald, Voldemort), and one of good wizards? Gryffindor...? other wizards ?...Flammel, Dumbledore)? In this case, Slytherin's power would be passed on through the boys who lived, who go bad, and Gryffindor's power would be passed on voluntarily through the "handshake of fire."
This would certainly have Harry uniting the wizarding world.
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frogface - Jun 10, 2005 12:19 pm (#773 of 1448)
Sirius' father had a ring didn't he? Kreacher tries to stop them getting rid of it when they are cleaning the house. Think it could possible be connected to this? I don't personally believe it myself but its the only ring I could remember from the rest of the series so I thought I'd throw the idea out there.
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Diagon Nilly - Jun 10, 2005 12:31 pm (#774 of 1448)
I agree with whoever said Dumbledore's arm would look "older", that arm clearly belongs to an adult...tho' not female since the nails are short and the fingers are broad.
I dunno, I see those hands clasped in comraderie, protection, and combining of powers (those rings of fire are too similar to the ones around Harry & Dumbledore, so they feel more protective than vexing).
Sirius would be a good choice for the Mystery Arm, 'cept JKR said he's dead and he's staying dead.
Lupin maybe? Or maybe Snape?
Maybe Lupin joins up with Harry in defeating Voldy and gains some (much deserved) respect amongst the WW.
Or, could Snape and Harry set aside their differences to bring down the Voldy? Ha! Then Snape backstabs Harry in an attempt to take the Dark Lord's place...very Lord of the Sith...or Lord of the Dance...or Lords of Dogtown. Lord of something, anyway.
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Kwikspell - Jun 10, 2005 12:54 pm (#775 of 1448)
Marketers? Bah!
My first impression was that the arms belong to Harry and LV. The muscles standing out on the wrist of the right arm makes it look like they're locked in a struggle or a VERY firm handshake. However, I really like vball man's idea that it's DD channeling magic to Harry. I would imagine that a transference of that level of power would also cause one's arm to tense up.
Did we ever learn if the Hogwarts lake was natural or man-made? If the lake was created by the Founders, I wonder if the claw-toed basin contains the memories of the Founders and accessible through a secret grotto passage known only to Headmaster. Have we determined that the basin is, indeed a Penseive?
Going back several posts, applepie--my husband had that happy task. He pulled a Ginny and lied very convincingly, claiming the tickets were actually for the 4th of July weekend. Now, we just have to get tickets for that weekend...
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applepie - Jun 10, 2005 12:54 pm (#776 of 1448)
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." -- Oscar Wilde
KTO - "you are the one I like, now figure out what to do about it" and storms off.
I love that idea....too funny!
I get the feeling that the arms are clasped in a desparate act to help someone. Maybe someone falling who needs a hand. Definitely an adult male, though not as old as DD. The graphic around the hands could be some emotional magic, or implying the "heat of the moment" as in a rescue... just thinking out loud here.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 12:54 pm (#777 of 1448)
Lots of Lords Diagon Nilly. Dumbledore is old but strong. Maybe his arms don't look as old as his face. There are veins drawn on the arm. I don't know if they are for age or exertion. Vball man I hope they are uniting powers not passing them on. DD can't die. LPO
edt. for clarity
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Doris Crockford - Jun 10, 2005 1:06 pm (#778 of 1448)
Originally, I thought the 'older' arm belongs to Dumbledore, and that he and Harry are arm-wrestling. I think that it looks old enough to be Dumbledore's. But then I looked at the fire, and it looks to me like the fire is circled around the left wrist (Harry's). It might just be a stylistic thing, but it looks like the circle of fire is keeping Harry's arm in place.
Diagon Nilly, I agree that the fire around the arms are similar to that around Harry and Dumbledore, but I think that both Harry and Dumbledore's faces look scared in the front panel. Of course, I almost always associate fire with bad things, even though Fawkes burst into flame and he's a good guy.
Frogface, that was my first thought about the ring. When I looked in OoP, though, it describes the ring as gold with the Black family crest on it, and the thing in the centre of the ring doesn't look much like a crest to me.
I keep looking at the boat, and when I look at the reflection of the boat, I see a shape that looks like a person sitting in the boat, but there is no one actually sitting in the boat. Can anyone else see that, or am I going crazy waiting for July 16?
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Madam Pince - Jun 10, 2005 1:35 pm (#779 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Wow! Exciting new news! I love that cover!
My first impression is that the arms belong to Dumbledore and Harry. I think the picture of Dumbly on the front cover looks rather young-ish (for Dumbledore, anyway) and in my opinion he looks strong and vital, rather than aged and feeble or something. Since the front cover and the arms were probably drawn by the same artist and thus have the same "interpretation" of Dumbledore, I'm thinking the arm belongs to someone more ... ahem.... mature, but certainly still strong. The hands from the front cover look similar to the ones on the flap to me.
I also think that the "rope of fire" is some sort of magical binding of Harry and Dumbledore, quite possibly a transfer or sharing of power from Dumbledore to Harry. It rather puts me in mind of someone who is caught in a storm at sea and lashes himself to the mast for protection. After all, Dumbledore has spent most of his time protecting Harry -- if they are together facing Voldy in battle, I'm betting Dumbledore would want to pull Harry to him and envelop him in whatever protective spells or shared powers that he could. (***especially if he knows he - Dumbledore - is about to die, but I digress ***)
The ring -- I'm thinking it is the official ring of the HBP. It would be very neat if the stone is moonstone -- remember Snape setting that essay to the kids on the properties and uses of moonstone in OoP? That would fit neatly with my theory that Snape has been structuring his teachings toward providing Harry with vital information that he will need to know someday -- I see Snape as being rather like a "drill sergeant" because he will not coddle and will even seem to be mean, but is actually trying to prepare the student for self-preservation.
The boat -- I have no idea, which really ticks me off. My immediate thought was the island to which the Dursleys and Harry went in the very first book, but that doesn't seem to make much sense. It seems too small to be one of the Hogwarts boats that first-years take to the castle upon arrival. I just don't know. And it's odd how the greenish glow seems to just immediately surround the boat and illuminate the bottom in the water right around it. If we assume the bowl is the Pensieve, and the green glow is a preserved memory, then presumably the boat would be something crucial from the past that someone has stored as a memory. However, I have no idea what that could be, and why would the boat and only the boat be greenish, rather than the whole "scene," if that makes any sense?
OK, now where's Scholastic's back cover??? I'm dying to see GrandPre's interpretation.....
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S.E. Jones - Jun 10, 2005 1:41 pm (#780 of 1448)
Let it snow!
Wasn't Dumbledore's watch described as a pocket watch? If so, then the thing on the spine couldn't be his watch. I'm voting for it being a ring.
I find it interesting that the boat is glowing. Is that just so we pay attention to it, or for some other reason.... You know, I'm wondering now if 'Spinners End' is a wharf or something....
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Delightful Task! - Jun 10, 2005 1:48 pm (#781 of 1448)
Hmmm, I agree with you Doris Crockford! The reflection doesn't exactly correspond to the boat! But why? I don't know!
About the pensieve... I immediately thought of the chamber of secrets! Could this grotto be gryffindor's chamber of secrets? Where he could have kept his own pensieve, with his memories... I always thought it was weird the first years arrived through the lake. Of course it's because they need to arrive after the others for the sorting hat... But I always thought JKR wanted us to know that you could arrive into Hogwarts from the lake... And of course, the giant squid, (whoever that might be!) might be protecting something too... (On the other hand, in the new poll, JKR talks about "THE" pensieve, as if there was only one...)
I'm not sure the arms are wrestling (The position of the thumbs is weird,). I rather thought they were "sharing" something. Either one is helping the other, or it could be a kind of ritual, a bond being created... I immediately thought of Harry and Snape... An adult, but not an old man... But as you all seem to think it must be DD, you must be right!
And the fire could be coming from... the ring finger of the older hand? (although I'm not too sure about that!)
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GryffEndora - Jun 10, 2005 1:48 pm (#782 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
S.E. Jones, I'm wondering now if 'Spinners End' is a wharf or something....
I love that idea!!! A spinner is also a type of fishing lure, as I'm sure you know S.E. Jones, but I just had to throw in my 2 knuts with yours. Great theory!
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Steve Newton - Jun 10, 2005 1:54 pm (#783 of 1448)
Librarian
As I recall it the first years arrive by boat under Hogwarts. (It's been a while since I read this.) This could be where they land.
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librarian314 - Jun 10, 2005 1:57 pm (#784 of 1448)
Hey all!
I just checked out the book jacket; I even plopped it into photoshop to look at it more closely.
I think that the squiggle on the ring might be a snake. When I zoom in I see a tapered head at the top and a tapered tail at the bottom. This makes me think it might be Salazar Slytherin's ring.
On the front cover, DD looks not so much scared as focused and a touch angry. Sort of a cross between the Duke of York at the beginning of the battle of Agincourt in Kenneth Brannagh's Henry V (played by Brian Blessed) and a Charleton Heston style Moses. He also looks as though he's in the middle of saying something.
Harry, on the other hand looks worried, like he can't quite believe what he's seeing.
The clasped arms reminded me of a hand fasting ceremony, where the couple's hand are bound with ribbons, so I'm in the camp of those that think it a binding spell of some sort. I thought that the older looking arm might belong to Moody.
Y'all take care!
*michelle the librarian**
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bella - Jun 10, 2005 1:59 pm (#785 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I am going to go out on a limb about the boat. The first thing I thought when I saw the reflection was invisibility cloak.
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Madam Pince - Jun 10, 2005 2:33 pm (#786 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Michelle, I think you may be right about the ring having a snake-like squiggle on it. That was my first impression too -- that it had something to do with Salazar Slytherin. Then I thought it looked like a lightning bolt, but I'm back to snake again now. Don't know why -- just a feeling.
Great thought, bella! Do we know from anywhere whether an Invisibility Cloak also covers up your reflection, as well as your straightforward appearance? If not, then that could surely be it -- somebody skulking in a boat!
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 10, 2005 2:40 pm (#787 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Since I don't have anything productive to add to the analysis of the cover, I'm going to jump back to S.E.Jones' idea that a portrait that witnessed the events at Godric's Hollow could be the HBP.
A chapter similar to the first chapter of HBP was one of the discarded first chapters of SS/PS, leading many to guess that it will deal with the night Harry's parents died. This makes sense, because it almost has to have something to do with the past. CoS, however, was not one of the books that JKR considered using this first chapter in. So, if the first chapter of HBP is about the fateful night in Godric's Hollow, I don't think a portrait, or person, for that matter, who was involved in the events there is going to be the HBP.
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So Sirius - Jun 10, 2005 2:55 pm (#788 of 1448)
Regarding the new book cover pictures; To me, it looks like whatever that is, spinning, around their wrists is also, spinning around them in larger form. I wonder if this graveyard JKR spoke about on the grounds is someplace near the boats? That interesting glowing object almost looks like it's got a claw at the bottom.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 10, 2005 4:07 pm (#789 of 1448)
I am Used Vlad I agree that the chapter is probably about the night when Harry's parents died. It will be very interesting to see whose point of view we well get during the chapter. I do not think anyone else was there. I am anxious to find out why Lily and James never told DD about changing their secret keeper. It seems it would be very important to keep him informed. I also wonder if the Longbottoms were in hiding also. JKR has talked about the impact of the prophecy on Neville. LPO
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Suspero - Jun 10, 2005 5:36 pm (#790 of 1448)
Professor
Wow! Just what us hungry souls needed! I can't thank you enough, Tomoe, for posting that link.
Here's my thoughts and observations: First, the obvious that the dish on the pedestal is the same thing they are looking into on the front cover of the U.S. edition. The glowing boat seems magical -- their means of arrival or their method of escape? The base of the pedestal looks like a bird's talons/claws to me, so here's my first bit of speculation: Could this be Gryffindor's secret chamber? Perhaps all four founders created special chambers, or at least Gryffindor in reaction to Slytherin? I always wondered who created The Room of Requirement and why.
Second, as an artist and sometimes illustrator: The yellow triangle on Harry's forehead surrounding his scar is such a definite shape, I don't think it's any accident. Is it symbolic of his mother? I never noticed the lower right area of that front cover before -- those are jets of flame (one or two?). is the fire something that protects the secret and they have to get through it? Is it an attack by Voldemort? And the green... is that still emanating from the basin?
Thirdly, I think it's Dumbledore's hand and Harry's clasped in some bond and the helix of flame is like those ancient vow ties. But what's the bond about? Some additional power or protection Harry had not received placed on him by Dumbledore? Or a commitment or oath between them? Dumbledore is described as surprisingly strong and energetic for his apparent age. The wrist in this picture reminds me of Renaissance paintings of strong working arms, and also of some sculptors I know who are well beyond sixty now.
Lastly, I'm more and more expecting that the end of Book 6 will leave us breathlessly anticipating Book 7 and the two books will be linked, as if Book 7 was a continuation.
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Miriam Huber - Jun 10, 2005 11:29 pm (#791 of 1448)
JKR said so. She said they were like two halves of one book. One of my points to assume that book 6 will NOT have a face-to-face Harry-to-Voldemort showdown. Would be a bit much in my opinion. Whe had a break from it in PoA and I think it is time for another break before the showdown in 7.
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Regan of Gong - Jun 11, 2005 1:31 am (#792 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Good thought Miriam, it sounds feasible.
I think the ring is a seal, like the ones used by royals. And doesn't the snake/lightning bolt design on it look like the snake described on the tap in the girls bathroom in chamber?
Regan
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 11, 2005 5:03 am (#793 of 1448)
Having looked at an enlarged version of the cover at the Bloomsbury site, I think the ring is a signet ring. The shape is either lightening or a snake.
I think the two arms are identical. Could someone use polyjuice potion to try and impersonate Harry? Could Neville or Ron do so to try and save Harry? If so how would Harry's protection and link with Voldemort affect them?
As to the bowl, I don't think it is the pensive that DD uses. But the stand it is on.... reminds me of a clawed foot. For this reason I don't think it is something to do with the boats that take them to Hogwarts across the lake. Could this be in another part of the Chamber of Secrets? It has a dark magic feel to it.
Oh roll on July 16th so I can find out.
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frogface - Jun 11, 2005 6:40 am (#794 of 1448)
The green light does seem to indicate dark magic. Many people have suggested that Harry and DD will look into a pensieve that has the recorded memorys of what happened that night at Godric's Hollow, and after seeing all that green light, I'm certainly convinced that if it is a pensieve it looks like it holds the memory of Avada Kedavra being used, what with all that green light.
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GryffEndora - Jun 11, 2005 7:09 am (#795 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The clawed foot on the pedistal brings a few things to mind. The first thing is that Moody has a clawed foot. The founder that it makes me think of is Ravenclaw, since She is symbolized with an Eagle. Didn't Jo say we would learn more about the Gray Lady? Perhaps it happens in this book. If the pedestal is connected to Gryffindor I guess it could be the foot of a Griffin or a Phoenix although his symbol is a Lion and you'd think he'd keep the theme, after all Slytherin stuck with serpents. I don't know what any of this means but those are the things I could think of.
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Suspero - Jun 11, 2005 7:37 am (#796 of 1448)
Professor
Hello, everyone, I'm enjoying this so much -- thanks for helping to pass the waiting hours until we have that book!
My thoughts on the ring: It looks to me like a cracked gemstone. I'm fascinated by the idea that the crack mirrors Harry's scar. Some stones are associated with royalty and with good luck. Legend has it that since the Crusades hematite or bloodstone gives the bearer strength and good luck. The setting doesn't offer any clues to me, I'm afraid, but I don't see any signet seal or design, only that lightning-like crack (maybe the clues are with my braincloud from "Joe Versus the Volcano"? Good movie, but, boy!, that's a stretch).
About the green glow -- it doesn't seem to me that green represents ONLY and exclusively "dark magic", but more a matter of very old magic and very powerful or deep magic. Slytherin may be green but so are Harry's and Lily's eyes.
Could Dumbledore have worked his charm on Harry (or was Lily also to help?) by linking all kinds of ancient magic from all sides?
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Veritaserum - Jun 11, 2005 8:02 am (#797 of 1448)
Go Jays!
And now for something slightly different: I had been leaning toward the idea that the basin on the US cover was a pensieve, though I don't think there are very many of them. However, the dish on the UK cover I think looks attached to its stem, which would give it more of a goblet shape than a Pensieve, which I always thought was just a bowl.
Secondly, did the boat remind anyone else of Charon and crossing the Acheron like in Dante's Inferno and other legends about the underworld? That's definitely what first popped into my head. If anyone's read The Amber Spyglass, this reminds me of the man who rowed them to the world of the dead (who was, of course, supposed to be Charon or whoever.) Perhaps Harry actually goes beyond the veil for some reason.
As for the hand clasp, I definitely think it is a "friendly" gesture. A gesture like "We're going to take this together." My first reaction was that it was Harry and Ron, just because it looked like a brotherly kind of thing, and those two are very nearly brothers. It reminds me of Red Rover, you know the game where everyone links hands and try to keep people from penetrating? It strikes me as a "united we stand" kind of deal, that they are putting their two strengths together to fight some kind of foe.
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Catherine - Jun 11, 2005 8:56 am (#798 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Okay, I know we've been led away from the discussion of guessing who the HBP is, but I was thinking about it earlier. On the Godric's Hollow thread, we discussed the possibility of Dumbledore using a portrait to know that the Potters had been attacked and killed. If this is a possibility, could the person in the portrait who witnessed the attack be the HBP? S. E. Jones
Sarah, I have wondered this myself, if perhaps Dumbledore had a portrait "check-in" with the Potters, and perhaps the portrait was, due to the fact that the house was rubble, unable to access its other frame and make contact. This could explain how Dumbledore "knew" to send Hagrid to the scene so quickly.
Of course, given the Fidelius Charm, the whole thing confuses me and makes my head hurt.
As to the identity of this theoretical portrait, it would not suprise me in the least if James Potter had a famous wizard in his family history. James was pretty confident at Hogwarts, and seemed to get away with hexing people "just because he can," according to Lily. James seems, in OoP, to come off as a bit of a "pampered prince" type, and is best friends with Sirius, who had a headmaster in his family.
Would this portrait be "the half-blood prince?" Maybe.....
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Ydnam96 - Jun 11, 2005 8:58 am (#799 of 1448)
I too thought the hand clasp was one of friendship. In fact, if you look the hand on the right looks older than the hand on the left. It could be DD's hand. Perhaps he is passing on some sort of power or performing some sort of magic that will help Harry. Or perhaps they are being magically bonded together- you know, the only one VM ever feared bonded with Harry. That would be quite a formidable force to be reckoned with.
The boat is very interesting as well. I wonder if Harry will somehow have to take a boat to the other side of the lake for some reason, maybe that is where the graveyard is? Although, it does appear to be in a cave. So you all may be correct in that it might be a way into the chamber.
(I also find myself now wondering if there is some significance in the fact that every year the 1st years cross the lake in the boats but no one else does...wonder if that has something to do with it all???)
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 11, 2005 9:41 am (#800 of 1448)
The light surrounding the pensieve seems to tunnel downward to the prow of the boat.Perhaps the memory in the pensieve takes Dumbledore and Harry to the boat which might lead to Godrics Hollow.(I'm hoping!)The hand clasp seems to be a friendly one-I like Vball Man's theory of it being a transfer of magical powers to Harry "he will have powers the dark lord knows not." Are we sure that is a vein on the wrist? Maybe its a scar. Ooh..the ring.Of course its Dumbledore's signet ring.He is the HBP afterall.
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Diagon Nilly - Jun 11, 2005 10:48 am (#801 of 1448)
For those who didn't see this, here's an extreme close-up of the ring and clasped hands:
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I was previously thinking that the triangle on Harry's head on the front cover was just some artistic highlighting. But it looks like the ring has a lightening bolt over a triangle just like on Harry's forehead.
Curious. Most curious.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 11, 2005 12:20 pm (#802 of 1448)
Thanks for the closeup Nilly. The ring definitely has a lightening bolt rather than snake.If it is a crack and if the edges were merged together it would have a triangle shape with lines running through it. Could the triangle be a symbolism of Harry,Voldemort,and someone else? Oddly,I can see the hand grasp more clearly in the smaller version- what a shame.
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Suspero - Jun 11, 2005 12:23 pm (#803 of 1448)
Professor
Could this be Voldemort's ring? Cracked when the curse recoiled on him? And his ring and Harry's scar reflect each other?
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sere35 - Jun 11, 2005 12:29 pm (#804 of 1448)
Just so all you know the ring is not a lighting bolt. Its to faces and the space between them looks like a lighting bolt. If you cant see it try staring real close at it for a couple minutes.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 11, 2005 12:35 pm (#805 of 1448)
I meant that it takes the shape of a lightning bolt rather than a snake.If you merge its edges together the symbol on the ring looks triangular in shape. Btw, I like your idea Suspero.
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LooneyLuna - Jun 11, 2005 1:31 pm (#806 of 1448)
After looking at the close up, I think the ring has a crest on it (Hogwart's Crest?), encased in a square with the crack through the middle.
Could be the HBP's ring or the ring of a Headmaster.
HBP can't come fast enough!
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 11, 2005 2:53 pm (#807 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
My personal feelings are that the clasped hands are DD & Harry and that it is part of the initiation of Harry into the Order. This could well be the more pleasant reason for Harry leaving #4.
DD seemed so upset at the end of OotP that he would well want to include Harry ASAP in HBP. I also believe that the flames which seem to be circling Harry and DD are emanating from the tip of DD's wand.
I don't know if the clawed foot base of the pensieve on the cover has any significance. The other clawed feet we have been told about are Moody's and the clawed foot of the umbrella stand in the entrance hall to #12 GP. And neither of them have been very important.
Haven't figured out any significance to the boat but if as suggested the scene is in the base of Hogwart's it could also be the home base of the giant squid.
Mickey
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sere35 - Jun 11, 2005 7:12 pm (#808 of 1448)
The picture in the ring is two faces looking at each other. The one on the left is skinny has a mustache and glasses. The one on the right has a beard and what looks like a crown on his head.
The lighting bolt shape is the space in between the faces and it gets its shape due to the outline of the faces.
This of course you can only see if you look at the blown up picture on mugglenet
For any one who disagrees you are wrong and when the book comes out and it shows I am right I will be back to gloat and brag.
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Suspero - Jun 11, 2005 7:26 pm (#809 of 1448)
Professor
The ring definitely looks like a cracked gemstone. The crack is definitely shaped like lightning the way Harry's scar is described. I think the shapes and white lines you see are impact marks -- you get the exact same kind of thing if you take very thick glass, such as the bottom of a drink bottle or jar and hit it with a hammer.
If it is Voldemort's ring -- or whoever's -- another question would be Who has possession of it? I mean, is it just an artifact, a memento, or does it have power? Wonder if it shows up at that shop in Knockturn Alley, or in a raid on the Malfoy mansion, or in a visit to the wreckage of the Potters' house?
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Chemyst - Jun 11, 2005 7:51 pm (#810 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
When I saw the hands clasp with a golden cord, I thought "Freemasonry." The Freemasons are a secret fraternity of sorts. There is a lot of legend surrounding their origins, highly dubious claims of keeping secrets from King Solomon's Temple ( 850 B.C. ), some very tenuous connections to the original Knights Templar (1118 A.D. ), a tradition linking them to a medieval guild, but no solid facts before 1717 when a group of Englishmen either founded or reorganized it. Masonic lodges appeared in the American colonies as early as the 1730s, and the organization spread world wide (since Britannia ruled the waves and all that.)
Anyway, the point is that the Masons are a society with a lot of secrets. Supposedly they use ceremonial hand clasps or grips to make oaths. Different grips signify different oaths, and for some oaths, a sash or cord is reported to be used as a token to bind them together. The penalty for revealing the signs or tokens is death. (So of course, they can be easily googled.) One of these secret hand clasps is known as "The grip of the Lion."
Another search turned up this paragraph from the winning entry in the Grandmaster's Essay Contest:
Freemasonry is an allegory of the human life. And as with temporal life, this allegorical life is also lived in two planes- the physical and the metaphysical. It encompasses the entire life span - from the entrance of Man on this mortal existence, through adulthood, to his inevitable destiny - which in physical life, stops at the grave, and transcends it in the metaphysical.
With a little word substitution, we have:
Harry Potter an allegory of the human life. And this allegorical life is also lived in two planes- the muggle and the wizard. It encompasses the entire life span - from the entrance of Harry on this mortal existence, to adulthood, to his inevitable destiny - which in physical life, stops at the grave, and transcends it in the metaphysical.
The Order of the Phoenix is a secret fraternity of sorts. So are the Death Eaters.
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Elanor - Jun 11, 2005 11:05 pm (#811 of 1448)
Oh, I like that explanation about the hands very much Chemyst! I've read a little about Freemasons when working on the alchemy paper because some of their symbols and precepts come from alchemy (the quote you mention for example shows interesting references to alchemy principles). The "Encyclopedia of symbols" gives curious details about those ceremonies you mention, especially about one called the "chain of brothers", it is a symbol of union and also of passing on knowledge: a hand gives, the other one receives. It would fit very well indeed with the idea of passing on between Harry and DD, if the hands are theirs.
It is the same idea that appears in heraldry: clasped hands meaning faithfulness and union. Besides, the right hand is, traditionally, a positive one in symbolism, the one used for "white magic". So, all in all, those clasped hands seem to be a rather positive sign. Go Harry!
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Catherine - Jun 12, 2005 6:11 am (#812 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Chemyst, I like your connection with Freemasonry. Also, it's amazing that Google has penetrated the mysteries of secret societies.
When I looked at the big picture of the ring on Mugglenet, I saw an outline of Fawkes's head. It made me wonder if the ring signifies that Harry becomes a real member of the Order of the Phoenix.
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mononoke - Jun 12, 2005 6:18 am (#813 of 1448)
I don't know if anyone has noticed this,but the wall in the back cover(beside the boat)looks like a cave's wall.It has many cracks and looks natural.If it is indeed the cave,then it will support that this is the cave under Hogwarts where the students arrive by boats in first year.
About the basil's base,could it be a dragon's claw?I don't know,but my first impression of this thing is another older pensieve.
And the ring...someone from previous post mention using Photoshop,so I did the same.And it definitely has a head.So I agree it could be a snake.Thinking about the ring...LOTR...could this be some kind of hidden-power ring or elf ring like Gandalf has?
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Netherlandic - Jun 12, 2005 6:21 am (#814 of 1448)
Could it be a bowl with dragon blood? We know that Dumbledore has made a study of dragon blood. If I recall correctly, JKR didn't want to tell us the 12 uses for dragon blood, except for the fact that one of these uses was for cleaning an oven.
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Betelgeuse Black - Jun 12, 2005 6:23 am (#815 of 1448)
A comment from Ydnam96 got me thinking about the first year students and crossing the lake in the boats.
Since Hogwarts and it's students are protected by many charms, etc..., I think the boat ritual is a "right of passage" to where the students get included in the protection charm.
I followed this thought to the golden glowing boat and the clasped hands, I come up with this theory. Maybe the boat is included in Dumbledore's placing more protective charms on Harry. The additional chamber with the glowing "birdbath" with talons (insert Ravenclaw joke here) could be part of that protection charm, along with the fire encircled handshake.
This would be a much more pleasant reason to leave 4PD (rather than a trial), even though it's not a happy event.
Betelgeuse
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Madam Pince - Jun 12, 2005 6:53 am (#816 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Diagon Nilly, thanks for the close-up picture of the ring and clasped hands! After seeing the close-up, I think the ring is cracked, and the design on the top of it is three-sided but not really a triangle, but rather a shield-shape -- like a family crest or something. The edges of the "shield" look to me to be curved rather than straight. My first thought was that it was the crest of one of the Houses of Hogwarts, like the patches/badges on the students' robes.
I like the idea that it could be Voldemort's ring -- Slytherin crest -- cracked with the shape that mirrors Harry's scar when they had their little run-in at Godric's Hollow. It could be one of the artifacts that was under the floorboard in Lucius Malfoy's dining room floor.
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So Sirius - Jun 12, 2005 7:50 am (#817 of 1448)
Oh my, it seems as though i've missed the HP Rorshach test. What do we all see when looking at the ring? It's clearly mother and father fighting ... whoops, never mind. Actually, I'll go ahead and put in my 2 knuts here, I think it's a shield or something of the like and it's split and interestingly the split does seem to be in the shape of the bolt or the leg of a spider. All of this art work of late is only raising more questions for me and not giving more answers.
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Suspero - Jun 12, 2005 8:37 am (#818 of 1448)
Professor
Edited Jun 12, 2005 9:48 am
I looked at the Slytherin shield to see if it could be in the center of that ring, cracked or otherwise and actually none of the house shields matches the shapes. I was hoping it would match Slytherin's but, alas, nope.
If I understand heraldry correctly the shape of a shield is as critical as the symbols of the content on it. Besides, not to be cynical about such things, but in a franchise like "HP" I'm sure the illustrator has to keep everything carefully to form.
I'm thinking that the stone itself was charmed, possibly part of a larger ancient stone, that the ring is/was Voldemort's and it was involved in the protection on Harry that left him scarred and Voldemort crippled.
I like all the protective charms talk from Betelgeuse Black, especially the part about the boat being one of the Hogwarts crossing boats and that this might be the cave they pass through to enter the protection of Hogwarts. Certainly would make sense for Gryffindor or Ravenclaw to put a protection charm on the school and all its students after Slytherin left in anger -- and even more so knowing he had created that Secret Chamber intent on purging the school at the cost of young lives.
I don't remember who suggested that the basin/pedestal resembles a chalice but what if it's there all the time, invisible to the arriving students, bestowing its charm on the them as they pass by, but visible to someone who has passed though a later rite or made an oath?
Is the Goblet of Fire there all the time but only visible when it's needed? Is it perhaps a Gryffindor-created thing to make charms regarding champions and courage?
Boy, this is so much fun! It's nearly as good as having the book here. It feels like Harry, Ron and Hermione trying to puzzle through yet another mystery. "Who is Nicolas Flamel?" Oh, yeah, uh, I'm really falling behind...
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GryffEndora - Jun 12, 2005 1:37 pm (#819 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Ok, more of my thoughts on the ring. It is a square cut gemstone. A square cut is a kind of step cut. The one pictured has only 1 step. I have an example of a square cut with 4 steps here. The gray/silver stone has the facets in the white color. You can see the inner square with the diagonal facets radiating out from the corners of the square. I agree with those that see a triangular shield in the middle of the square face of the stone with a crack cutting down the center of the stone. the image is also included in the new Bloomsbury screensaver and will be screen size if you download it. Check it out!
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 12, 2005 4:59 pm (#820 of 1448)
Hi,
I've been studying the ring contained in the children's screen saver. To me, it looks the the capital letter H that has been riven in twain [Like that? :-) ]
When you turn the ring sideways, as though you were wearing it, it sorta gives the same impression as when we look at a map of the world. On a big msap, we see that South American and Africa had to be joined together. Then we see that Europe and North America would fit, too.
Try it. When they're joined together it is a bold, filled letter H.
As for the stuff within the structure of the H, I'm not sure. It's a Bitmap file at low resolution. There is some evidence of some filigree or something, but I can't figure it out.
Thanks,
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Gina R Snape - Jun 12, 2005 5:59 pm (#821 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Betelguise Black, I like your idea of Harry leaving 12GP to get this extra protection.
And a birdbath? :snort: Nice one!
That gem is very frustrating. You can see so many things in it!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 13, 2005 4:58 am (#822 of 1448)
Taking a fresh look at the ring I can see why people think there is a shield on it, but this would have to be sideways. This means it is unlikely to be the Hogwarts Crest, but we will have to wait 33 days to find out.
The cauldron/birdbath type thing is too big to be the pensive whic can go into a cupboard. If it is a birdbath I would not like to meet the bird!
Thinking of the US cover picture of Harry and DD going through a wood, I think this may be linked to the boat and/or Spinners End.
The grey clothes on the two arms seem to be identical. Matching grey jumpers? Or part of the Hogwarts uniform? Could this be something to do with a major character dying? (See my previous post for thoughts on ployjuice potion).
Ah........ role on July 16th
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Hollywand - Jun 13, 2005 8:31 am (#823 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Maybe the two hands represent Draco receiving his Death Eater Tattoo from You-Know-Who.
Then again, it could just be Harry and Dobby ironing their hands.
Hmmmm.
The two hands could be a wizard couple marriage.
Yikes, so many different directions. How fun.
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Sconie Girl - Jun 13, 2005 10:01 am (#824 of 1448)
So glad someone mentioned the "birdbath"...even in joking. That was my first thought.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 13, 2005 10:50 am (#825 of 1448)
I did some research on the name surname McLagan and I found some interesting points. The Mclagan are closely associated with the Clan Logan. According the information about the clans of Scotland contained at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the definition of the word Logan, Laggan, or Logie means a hollow, plain or meadow surrounded by higher land.
The word Logan, Laggan, or Logie, in the Celtic tongue signifies a hollow place, plain, or meadow, encircled by rising grounds. As a place name it is common throughout Scotland. Logie is the name of parishes in Clackmannan and the north east of Fife, while Logic-Easter is a parish in Ross and Cromarty, Logan Water is the old name of the Glencross Burn in the Pentlands, and Port-Logan is a village in the south of Wigtonshire
The inclusion of a hollow place in the definition of Logan, Laggan, or Logie reminded me of Godric's Hollow.
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KWeldon - Jun 13, 2005 11:29 am (#826 of 1448)
Am I the only one that just sees a red "X" for the link to the close-up image of the ring? I'd really like to judge for myself!
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GryffEndora - Jun 13, 2005 11:42 am (#827 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
KWeldon, I noticed that myself yesterday. If you go to the Bloomsbury site and download the new Children's book art screensaver you will get the image in the screensaver and it will be as large as your screen size. It's a nice screensaver with the UK children's edition artwork.
*edit: You can download it here
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KWeldon - Jun 13, 2005 12:00 pm (#828 of 1448)
Thanks, GryffEndora. I was hoping to see it without having to download the screen saver.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 13, 2005 1:18 pm (#829 of 1448)
The screensaver is cool, but it is very hard to study it because it moves from one scene to the next. Is there anyway that you could pause it to get a better look at things?
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 13, 2005 2:46 pm (#830 of 1448)
I've scanned quickly through the previous 110 posts so sorry if this has been said already and I haven't noticed, anyway here goes;
First, I think the ring has a lightning shaped crack. I'm thinking of the scar on DD's knee resembling a map of the London Underground - the shape is highly significant and has some sort of meaning we have yet to discover.
Second, did anyone else notice the stone in the ring is an Emerald cut stone? (That is the cut, not the stone itself. Emeralds are usually cut this way but other stones can be, too).
Third, when I saw the binding of the hands I thought of the joined wands during the duel in the graveyard - I think many people agree that it is a magical bonding of sorts. I'm not sure which way this one goes - I'd have to check back to the graveyard scene and see what colour the arc between the wands was, unless one of you guys can remember?
Aurora xx
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Hollywand - Jun 13, 2005 2:48 pm (#831 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Aurora, it was a golden cage of light with Phoenix song.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 13, 2005 3:20 pm (#832 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
A jet of green light issued from Voldemorts wand just as a jet of red light blasted from Harry's - they met in midair - and suddenly Harry's wand was vibrating as though an electric charge were surging through it; his hand seized up around it; he couldn't have released it if he'd wanted to - and a narrow beam of light connected the two wands, neither red nor green, but bright, deep gold.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 13, 2005 3:21 pm (#833 of 1448)
Yes, Hollywand, but wasn't there also a shaft of light joining the two wands inside the cage? I think that was golden, too, I remember balls of light moved up and down between the wands. Do I remember correctly?
Aurora xx
cross posted with TBE - thanks!
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Night Owl - Jun 13, 2005 4:26 pm (#834 of 1448)
I have a program on my computer call gadwin screen print. I was able to get a good copy of all the pictures on the screensaver and got a really good look at that ring. The software is free and really works good. You can get a free copy at gadwin.com. You can also set a destination for the picture you copy and send it to what ever you use to view pictures. I use PSP7 so it is easy to blow this picture up. I hope it is ok to post that site.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 13, 2005 6:12 pm (#835 of 1448)
Thanks Night Owl.I'll try it.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 13, 2005 6:56 pm (#836 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Night Owl, can you host the image somewhere with a link? If not, email it to me and I can host it on my Photobucket account so we can all get this good a look.
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Night Owl - Jun 13, 2005 8:55 pm (#837 of 1448)
I have sent you the picture Gina R Snape. I hope it is helpful to you and the others. I don't know if you have a way of posting it to share with the other members, but if you do, it is fine with me.
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Night Owl - Jun 13, 2005 9:01 pm (#838 of 1448)
I must also mention, when I saw this picture closer. the right hand does look like an older persons arm. Not that I would know what an older arm looks like.
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Ydnam96 - Jun 13, 2005 9:40 pm (#839 of 1448)
Night Owl, I agree the arm which inside (palm) faces us definetly looks older, it is more wrinkled and such. I personally believe that it is Harry and Dumbeldore. As both are wearing gray garments on the other side of the cover.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 7:21 am (#840 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Hi Night Owl. I received your email and posted the picture for all to see here.
The more I look at it, the less it looks like two faces. I see the lightning bolt shape in the middle as more of a twister (tornado) and what looks like a stadium in the background. Maybe it's just the heat and all the talk of building a stadium in NYC.
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Wizadora - Jun 14, 2005 7:24 am (#841 of 1448)
Seeing as both the American version and the English childrens version seem to be focusing on Harry and Dumbledore, I think that we can assume the two hands clasped together are their's. Which is a very exciting thought. Finally it seems that Harry is due the wisdom that DD can pass onto him.
Although I do think that it also means some bad news might be coming to us in this book regarding DD.Once the magical bond has been sealed with Harry, is there any real need for the mentor to be physically present in his life?
I know that it is a horrible thought but it fits the pattern of mythology and JKR's style.
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Cornelia - Jun 14, 2005 8:11 am (#842 of 1448)
Is it possible , with some kind of fashionably computer-program, to "heal" the cut in the stone and put together the two parts? Like a puzzle, or like cut it out and fit together, is it possible to understand what I´m trying to say? I don´t know how to put that in words...
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Grindylow - Jun 14, 2005 8:52 am (#843 of 1448)
It looks like a lightning bolt and some sort of a crest. At least that is what I see. hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Grindy
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KWeldon - Jun 14, 2005 8:57 am (#844 of 1448)
To me it looks like either a lightning bolt (or the stone itself is broken) and just what is supposed to be a reflection of the stone.
Thanks to Gina for providing the blown-up image.
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Veritaserum - Jun 14, 2005 8:58 am (#845 of 1448)
Go Jays!
The stone is a purply type color. What other purple things have we seen in the series thus far? Purple is also the color of royalty...
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 14, 2005 9:20 am (#846 of 1448)
Hi,
The screen saver is an SWF file, probably created in DreamWeaver. Each element of this file is an individual BitMap file. The Ring is number 13, if I remember correctly.
When you pull up the individual BitMap file, you see the Ring's stone quite clearly. However, the Ring is on its side. If you turn it, as though you were wearing it and looking at it from that perspective, the image appears to be the capital letter H. This letter H has been crudely split in half, as though by a lightning bolt or some other violent act. The two halves of the H are, in themsleves, unbroken.
To me, this is an analogy of Hogwarts. The school was split violently by the argument between Slytherin and the other three founders. When he left, both Hogwarts and the Hogwarts' signet ring were split as though by lightning.
Yet, the two halves remain intact. This strongly suggests that the split, although ancient and long-lasting, is not immutable. Those clasped hands may be the beginning of that healing process that will reunite the Hogwarts and the signet Ring.
Thanks,
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Suspero - Jun 14, 2005 9:29 am (#847 of 1448)
Professor
Wizadora, about the mentor no longer being needed: Could Harry really replace DD? I mean, it seems to me that DD is Head of Hogwarts but also the WW's greatest champion. I can see him passing things along to Harry, bonding in some way to work with harry, etc., but it seems to me like it would be a crashing blow to everyone for Dumbledore to die. I don't see how Harry could survive losing someone else, particularly someone so important.
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 10:04 am (#848 of 1448)
Back in business
Joanne R. Reid, you're brilliant! (about the ring representing the founders split)
Is this what you were looking for Cornelia?
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 10:15 am (#849 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I cut it up and scanned it too. Does mine look any different (it should be a bit closer and a bit bigger than Tomoe's).
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 10:19 am (#850 of 1448)
Back in business
The parts on your pic fit better, Gina. On both, there seems to be an S in a crest. Slytherin maybe?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
For those who didn't see this, here's an extreme close-up of the ring and clasped hands:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I was previously thinking that the triangle on Harry's head on the front cover was just some artistic highlighting. But it looks like the ring has a lightening bolt over a triangle just like on Harry's forehead.
Curious. Most curious.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 11, 2005 12:20 pm (#802 of 1448)
Thanks for the closeup Nilly. The ring definitely has a lightening bolt rather than snake.If it is a crack and if the edges were merged together it would have a triangle shape with lines running through it. Could the triangle be a symbolism of Harry,Voldemort,and someone else? Oddly,I can see the hand grasp more clearly in the smaller version- what a shame.
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Suspero - Jun 11, 2005 12:23 pm (#803 of 1448)
Professor
Could this be Voldemort's ring? Cracked when the curse recoiled on him? And his ring and Harry's scar reflect each other?
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sere35 - Jun 11, 2005 12:29 pm (#804 of 1448)
Just so all you know the ring is not a lighting bolt. Its to faces and the space between them looks like a lighting bolt. If you cant see it try staring real close at it for a couple minutes.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 11, 2005 12:35 pm (#805 of 1448)
I meant that it takes the shape of a lightning bolt rather than a snake.If you merge its edges together the symbol on the ring looks triangular in shape. Btw, I like your idea Suspero.
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LooneyLuna - Jun 11, 2005 1:31 pm (#806 of 1448)
After looking at the close up, I think the ring has a crest on it (Hogwart's Crest?), encased in a square with the crack through the middle.
Could be the HBP's ring or the ring of a Headmaster.
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 11, 2005 2:53 pm (#807 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
My personal feelings are that the clasped hands are DD & Harry and that it is part of the initiation of Harry into the Order. This could well be the more pleasant reason for Harry leaving #4.
DD seemed so upset at the end of OotP that he would well want to include Harry ASAP in HBP. I also believe that the flames which seem to be circling Harry and DD are emanating from the tip of DD's wand.
I don't know if the clawed foot base of the pensieve on the cover has any significance. The other clawed feet we have been told about are Moody's and the clawed foot of the umbrella stand in the entrance hall to #12 GP. And neither of them have been very important.
Haven't figured out any significance to the boat but if as suggested the scene is in the base of Hogwart's it could also be the home base of the giant squid.
Mickey
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sere35 - Jun 11, 2005 7:12 pm (#808 of 1448)
The picture in the ring is two faces looking at each other. The one on the left is skinny has a mustache and glasses. The one on the right has a beard and what looks like a crown on his head.
The lighting bolt shape is the space in between the faces and it gets its shape due to the outline of the faces.
This of course you can only see if you look at the blown up picture on mugglenet
For any one who disagrees you are wrong and when the book comes out and it shows I am right I will be back to gloat and brag.
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Suspero - Jun 11, 2005 7:26 pm (#809 of 1448)
Professor
The ring definitely looks like a cracked gemstone. The crack is definitely shaped like lightning the way Harry's scar is described. I think the shapes and white lines you see are impact marks -- you get the exact same kind of thing if you take very thick glass, such as the bottom of a drink bottle or jar and hit it with a hammer.
If it is Voldemort's ring -- or whoever's -- another question would be Who has possession of it? I mean, is it just an artifact, a memento, or does it have power? Wonder if it shows up at that shop in Knockturn Alley, or in a raid on the Malfoy mansion, or in a visit to the wreckage of the Potters' house?
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Chemyst - Jun 11, 2005 7:51 pm (#810 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
When I saw the hands clasp with a golden cord, I thought "Freemasonry." The Freemasons are a secret fraternity of sorts. There is a lot of legend surrounding their origins, highly dubious claims of keeping secrets from King Solomon's Temple ( 850 B.C. ), some very tenuous connections to the original Knights Templar (1118 A.D. ), a tradition linking them to a medieval guild, but no solid facts before 1717 when a group of Englishmen either founded or reorganized it. Masonic lodges appeared in the American colonies as early as the 1730s, and the organization spread world wide (since Britannia ruled the waves and all that.)
Anyway, the point is that the Masons are a society with a lot of secrets. Supposedly they use ceremonial hand clasps or grips to make oaths. Different grips signify different oaths, and for some oaths, a sash or cord is reported to be used as a token to bind them together. The penalty for revealing the signs or tokens is death. (So of course, they can be easily googled.) One of these secret hand clasps is known as "The grip of the Lion."
Another search turned up this paragraph from the winning entry in the Grandmaster's Essay Contest:
Freemasonry is an allegory of the human life. And as with temporal life, this allegorical life is also lived in two planes- the physical and the metaphysical. It encompasses the entire life span - from the entrance of Man on this mortal existence, through adulthood, to his inevitable destiny - which in physical life, stops at the grave, and transcends it in the metaphysical.
With a little word substitution, we have:
Harry Potter an allegory of the human life. And this allegorical life is also lived in two planes- the muggle and the wizard. It encompasses the entire life span - from the entrance of Harry on this mortal existence, to adulthood, to his inevitable destiny - which in physical life, stops at the grave, and transcends it in the metaphysical.
The Order of the Phoenix is a secret fraternity of sorts. So are the Death Eaters.
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Elanor - Jun 11, 2005 11:05 pm (#811 of 1448)
Oh, I like that explanation about the hands very much Chemyst! I've read a little about Freemasons when working on the alchemy paper because some of their symbols and precepts come from alchemy (the quote you mention for example shows interesting references to alchemy principles). The "Encyclopedia of symbols" gives curious details about those ceremonies you mention, especially about one called the "chain of brothers", it is a symbol of union and also of passing on knowledge: a hand gives, the other one receives. It would fit very well indeed with the idea of passing on between Harry and DD, if the hands are theirs.
It is the same idea that appears in heraldry: clasped hands meaning faithfulness and union. Besides, the right hand is, traditionally, a positive one in symbolism, the one used for "white magic". So, all in all, those clasped hands seem to be a rather positive sign. Go Harry!
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Catherine - Jun 12, 2005 6:11 am (#812 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
Chemyst, I like your connection with Freemasonry. Also, it's amazing that Google has penetrated the mysteries of secret societies.
When I looked at the big picture of the ring on Mugglenet, I saw an outline of Fawkes's head. It made me wonder if the ring signifies that Harry becomes a real member of the Order of the Phoenix.
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mononoke - Jun 12, 2005 6:18 am (#813 of 1448)
I don't know if anyone has noticed this,but the wall in the back cover(beside the boat)looks like a cave's wall.It has many cracks and looks natural.If it is indeed the cave,then it will support that this is the cave under Hogwarts where the students arrive by boats in first year.
About the basil's base,could it be a dragon's claw?I don't know,but my first impression of this thing is another older pensieve.
And the ring...someone from previous post mention using Photoshop,so I did the same.And it definitely has a head.So I agree it could be a snake.Thinking about the ring...LOTR...could this be some kind of hidden-power ring or elf ring like Gandalf has?
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Netherlandic - Jun 12, 2005 6:21 am (#814 of 1448)
Could it be a bowl with dragon blood? We know that Dumbledore has made a study of dragon blood. If I recall correctly, JKR didn't want to tell us the 12 uses for dragon blood, except for the fact that one of these uses was for cleaning an oven.
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Betelgeuse Black - Jun 12, 2005 6:23 am (#815 of 1448)
A comment from Ydnam96 got me thinking about the first year students and crossing the lake in the boats.
Since Hogwarts and it's students are protected by many charms, etc..., I think the boat ritual is a "right of passage" to where the students get included in the protection charm.
I followed this thought to the golden glowing boat and the clasped hands, I come up with this theory. Maybe the boat is included in Dumbledore's placing more protective charms on Harry. The additional chamber with the glowing "birdbath" with talons (insert Ravenclaw joke here) could be part of that protection charm, along with the fire encircled handshake.
This would be a much more pleasant reason to leave 4PD (rather than a trial), even though it's not a happy event.
Betelgeuse
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Madam Pince - Jun 12, 2005 6:53 am (#816 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Diagon Nilly, thanks for the close-up picture of the ring and clasped hands! After seeing the close-up, I think the ring is cracked, and the design on the top of it is three-sided but not really a triangle, but rather a shield-shape -- like a family crest or something. The edges of the "shield" look to me to be curved rather than straight. My first thought was that it was the crest of one of the Houses of Hogwarts, like the patches/badges on the students' robes.
I like the idea that it could be Voldemort's ring -- Slytherin crest -- cracked with the shape that mirrors Harry's scar when they had their little run-in at Godric's Hollow. It could be one of the artifacts that was under the floorboard in Lucius Malfoy's dining room floor.
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So Sirius - Jun 12, 2005 7:50 am (#817 of 1448)
Oh my, it seems as though i've missed the HP Rorshach test. What do we all see when looking at the ring? It's clearly mother and father fighting ... whoops, never mind. Actually, I'll go ahead and put in my 2 knuts here, I think it's a shield or something of the like and it's split and interestingly the split does seem to be in the shape of the bolt or the leg of a spider. All of this art work of late is only raising more questions for me and not giving more answers.
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Suspero - Jun 12, 2005 8:37 am (#818 of 1448)
Professor
Edited Jun 12, 2005 9:48 am
I looked at the Slytherin shield to see if it could be in the center of that ring, cracked or otherwise and actually none of the house shields matches the shapes. I was hoping it would match Slytherin's but, alas, nope.
If I understand heraldry correctly the shape of a shield is as critical as the symbols of the content on it. Besides, not to be cynical about such things, but in a franchise like "HP" I'm sure the illustrator has to keep everything carefully to form.
I'm thinking that the stone itself was charmed, possibly part of a larger ancient stone, that the ring is/was Voldemort's and it was involved in the protection on Harry that left him scarred and Voldemort crippled.
I like all the protective charms talk from Betelgeuse Black, especially the part about the boat being one of the Hogwarts crossing boats and that this might be the cave they pass through to enter the protection of Hogwarts. Certainly would make sense for Gryffindor or Ravenclaw to put a protection charm on the school and all its students after Slytherin left in anger -- and even more so knowing he had created that Secret Chamber intent on purging the school at the cost of young lives.
I don't remember who suggested that the basin/pedestal resembles a chalice but what if it's there all the time, invisible to the arriving students, bestowing its charm on the them as they pass by, but visible to someone who has passed though a later rite or made an oath?
Is the Goblet of Fire there all the time but only visible when it's needed? Is it perhaps a Gryffindor-created thing to make charms regarding champions and courage?
Boy, this is so much fun! It's nearly as good as having the book here. It feels like Harry, Ron and Hermione trying to puzzle through yet another mystery. "Who is Nicolas Flamel?" Oh, yeah, uh, I'm really falling behind...
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GryffEndora - Jun 12, 2005 1:37 pm (#819 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Ok, more of my thoughts on the ring. It is a square cut gemstone. A square cut is a kind of step cut. The one pictured has only 1 step. I have an example of a square cut with 4 steps here. The gray/silver stone has the facets in the white color. You can see the inner square with the diagonal facets radiating out from the corners of the square. I agree with those that see a triangular shield in the middle of the square face of the stone with a crack cutting down the center of the stone. the image is also included in the new Bloomsbury screensaver and will be screen size if you download it. Check it out!
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 12, 2005 4:59 pm (#820 of 1448)
Hi,
I've been studying the ring contained in the children's screen saver. To me, it looks the the capital letter H that has been riven in twain [Like that? :-) ]
When you turn the ring sideways, as though you were wearing it, it sorta gives the same impression as when we look at a map of the world. On a big msap, we see that South American and Africa had to be joined together. Then we see that Europe and North America would fit, too.
Try it. When they're joined together it is a bold, filled letter H.
As for the stuff within the structure of the H, I'm not sure. It's a Bitmap file at low resolution. There is some evidence of some filigree or something, but I can't figure it out.
Thanks,
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Gina R Snape - Jun 12, 2005 5:59 pm (#821 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Betelguise Black, I like your idea of Harry leaving 12GP to get this extra protection.
And a birdbath? :snort: Nice one!
That gem is very frustrating. You can see so many things in it!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 13, 2005 4:58 am (#822 of 1448)
Taking a fresh look at the ring I can see why people think there is a shield on it, but this would have to be sideways. This means it is unlikely to be the Hogwarts Crest, but we will have to wait 33 days to find out.
The cauldron/birdbath type thing is too big to be the pensive whic can go into a cupboard. If it is a birdbath I would not like to meet the bird!
Thinking of the US cover picture of Harry and DD going through a wood, I think this may be linked to the boat and/or Spinners End.
The grey clothes on the two arms seem to be identical. Matching grey jumpers? Or part of the Hogwarts uniform? Could this be something to do with a major character dying? (See my previous post for thoughts on ployjuice potion).
Ah........ role on July 16th
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Hollywand - Jun 13, 2005 8:31 am (#823 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Maybe the two hands represent Draco receiving his Death Eater Tattoo from You-Know-Who.
Then again, it could just be Harry and Dobby ironing their hands.
Hmmmm.
The two hands could be a wizard couple marriage.
Yikes, so many different directions. How fun.
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Sconie Girl - Jun 13, 2005 10:01 am (#824 of 1448)
So glad someone mentioned the "birdbath"...even in joking. That was my first thought.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 13, 2005 10:50 am (#825 of 1448)
I did some research on the name surname McLagan and I found some interesting points. The Mclagan are closely associated with the Clan Logan. According the information about the clans of Scotland contained at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the definition of the word Logan, Laggan, or Logie means a hollow, plain or meadow surrounded by higher land.
The word Logan, Laggan, or Logie, in the Celtic tongue signifies a hollow place, plain, or meadow, encircled by rising grounds. As a place name it is common throughout Scotland. Logie is the name of parishes in Clackmannan and the north east of Fife, while Logic-Easter is a parish in Ross and Cromarty, Logan Water is the old name of the Glencross Burn in the Pentlands, and Port-Logan is a village in the south of Wigtonshire
The inclusion of a hollow place in the definition of Logan, Laggan, or Logie reminded me of Godric's Hollow.
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KWeldon - Jun 13, 2005 11:29 am (#826 of 1448)
Am I the only one that just sees a red "X" for the link to the close-up image of the ring? I'd really like to judge for myself!
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GryffEndora - Jun 13, 2005 11:42 am (#827 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
KWeldon, I noticed that myself yesterday. If you go to the Bloomsbury site and download the new Children's book art screensaver you will get the image in the screensaver and it will be as large as your screen size. It's a nice screensaver with the UK children's edition artwork.
*edit: You can download it here
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KWeldon - Jun 13, 2005 12:00 pm (#828 of 1448)
Thanks, GryffEndora. I was hoping to see it without having to download the screen saver.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 13, 2005 1:18 pm (#829 of 1448)
The screensaver is cool, but it is very hard to study it because it moves from one scene to the next. Is there anyway that you could pause it to get a better look at things?
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 13, 2005 2:46 pm (#830 of 1448)
I've scanned quickly through the previous 110 posts so sorry if this has been said already and I haven't noticed, anyway here goes;
First, I think the ring has a lightning shaped crack. I'm thinking of the scar on DD's knee resembling a map of the London Underground - the shape is highly significant and has some sort of meaning we have yet to discover.
Second, did anyone else notice the stone in the ring is an Emerald cut stone? (That is the cut, not the stone itself. Emeralds are usually cut this way but other stones can be, too).
Third, when I saw the binding of the hands I thought of the joined wands during the duel in the graveyard - I think many people agree that it is a magical bonding of sorts. I'm not sure which way this one goes - I'd have to check back to the graveyard scene and see what colour the arc between the wands was, unless one of you guys can remember?
Aurora xx
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Hollywand - Jun 13, 2005 2:48 pm (#831 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Aurora, it was a golden cage of light with Phoenix song.
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 13, 2005 3:20 pm (#832 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
A jet of green light issued from Voldemorts wand just as a jet of red light blasted from Harry's - they met in midair - and suddenly Harry's wand was vibrating as though an electric charge were surging through it; his hand seized up around it; he couldn't have released it if he'd wanted to - and a narrow beam of light connected the two wands, neither red nor green, but bright, deep gold.
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 13, 2005 3:21 pm (#833 of 1448)
Yes, Hollywand, but wasn't there also a shaft of light joining the two wands inside the cage? I think that was golden, too, I remember balls of light moved up and down between the wands. Do I remember correctly?
Aurora xx
cross posted with TBE - thanks!
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Night Owl - Jun 13, 2005 4:26 pm (#834 of 1448)
I have a program on my computer call gadwin screen print. I was able to get a good copy of all the pictures on the screensaver and got a really good look at that ring. The software is free and really works good. You can get a free copy at gadwin.com. You can also set a destination for the picture you copy and send it to what ever you use to view pictures. I use PSP7 so it is easy to blow this picture up. I hope it is ok to post that site.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 13, 2005 6:12 pm (#835 of 1448)
Thanks Night Owl.I'll try it.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 13, 2005 6:56 pm (#836 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Night Owl, can you host the image somewhere with a link? If not, email it to me and I can host it on my Photobucket account so we can all get this good a look.
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Night Owl - Jun 13, 2005 8:55 pm (#837 of 1448)
I have sent you the picture Gina R Snape. I hope it is helpful to you and the others. I don't know if you have a way of posting it to share with the other members, but if you do, it is fine with me.
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Night Owl - Jun 13, 2005 9:01 pm (#838 of 1448)
I must also mention, when I saw this picture closer. the right hand does look like an older persons arm. Not that I would know what an older arm looks like.
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Ydnam96 - Jun 13, 2005 9:40 pm (#839 of 1448)
Night Owl, I agree the arm which inside (palm) faces us definetly looks older, it is more wrinkled and such. I personally believe that it is Harry and Dumbeldore. As both are wearing gray garments on the other side of the cover.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 7:21 am (#840 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Hi Night Owl. I received your email and posted the picture for all to see here.
The more I look at it, the less it looks like two faces. I see the lightning bolt shape in the middle as more of a twister (tornado) and what looks like a stadium in the background. Maybe it's just the heat and all the talk of building a stadium in NYC.
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Wizadora - Jun 14, 2005 7:24 am (#841 of 1448)
Seeing as both the American version and the English childrens version seem to be focusing on Harry and Dumbledore, I think that we can assume the two hands clasped together are their's. Which is a very exciting thought. Finally it seems that Harry is due the wisdom that DD can pass onto him.
Although I do think that it also means some bad news might be coming to us in this book regarding DD.Once the magical bond has been sealed with Harry, is there any real need for the mentor to be physically present in his life?
I know that it is a horrible thought but it fits the pattern of mythology and JKR's style.
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Cornelia - Jun 14, 2005 8:11 am (#842 of 1448)
Is it possible , with some kind of fashionably computer-program, to "heal" the cut in the stone and put together the two parts? Like a puzzle, or like cut it out and fit together, is it possible to understand what I´m trying to say? I don´t know how to put that in words...
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Grindylow - Jun 14, 2005 8:52 am (#843 of 1448)
It looks like a lightning bolt and some sort of a crest. At least that is what I see. hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Grindy
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KWeldon - Jun 14, 2005 8:57 am (#844 of 1448)
To me it looks like either a lightning bolt (or the stone itself is broken) and just what is supposed to be a reflection of the stone.
Thanks to Gina for providing the blown-up image.
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Veritaserum - Jun 14, 2005 8:58 am (#845 of 1448)
Go Jays!
The stone is a purply type color. What other purple things have we seen in the series thus far? Purple is also the color of royalty...
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 14, 2005 9:20 am (#846 of 1448)
Hi,
The screen saver is an SWF file, probably created in DreamWeaver. Each element of this file is an individual BitMap file. The Ring is number 13, if I remember correctly.
When you pull up the individual BitMap file, you see the Ring's stone quite clearly. However, the Ring is on its side. If you turn it, as though you were wearing it and looking at it from that perspective, the image appears to be the capital letter H. This letter H has been crudely split in half, as though by a lightning bolt or some other violent act. The two halves of the H are, in themsleves, unbroken.
To me, this is an analogy of Hogwarts. The school was split violently by the argument between Slytherin and the other three founders. When he left, both Hogwarts and the Hogwarts' signet ring were split as though by lightning.
Yet, the two halves remain intact. This strongly suggests that the split, although ancient and long-lasting, is not immutable. Those clasped hands may be the beginning of that healing process that will reunite the Hogwarts and the signet Ring.
Thanks,
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Suspero - Jun 14, 2005 9:29 am (#847 of 1448)
Professor
Wizadora, about the mentor no longer being needed: Could Harry really replace DD? I mean, it seems to me that DD is Head of Hogwarts but also the WW's greatest champion. I can see him passing things along to Harry, bonding in some way to work with harry, etc., but it seems to me like it would be a crashing blow to everyone for Dumbledore to die. I don't see how Harry could survive losing someone else, particularly someone so important.
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 10:04 am (#848 of 1448)
Back in business
Joanne R. Reid, you're brilliant! (about the ring representing the founders split)
Is this what you were looking for Cornelia?
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 10:15 am (#849 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I cut it up and scanned it too. Does mine look any different (it should be a bit closer and a bit bigger than Tomoe's).
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 10:19 am (#850 of 1448)
Back in business
The parts on your pic fit better, Gina. On both, there seems to be an S in a crest. Slytherin maybe?
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Age : 52
Location : France
HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 851 to 900)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:43 am
GryffEndora - Jun 14, 2005 10:22 am (#851 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Tomoe, thanks for that "healing" image. I still see the rounded triangular shield. I don't see the H Joanne R. Reid but I'll keep looking. I like your idea about the split in the ring representing the split in Hogwarts.
The loss of DD to the Wizarding world would be a tremendous blow. To everyone including Harry. Harry is safe as long as DD is there to protect him, but Harry is becoming a man and soon he will need to protect himself. OotP was the first time we saw how DD's protection could hurt Harry. I don't want it to be true. I don't like admitting it might possibly happen. I don't want to imagine the books without his presence but If DD moves on to a greater journey I'm sure he will find a way to still be with Harry and if it happens it will be for the best, eventually.
But it's not going to happen anyway, so, just, never mind. *Queen of Denial? *
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Wizadora - Jun 4, 2005 11:48 am (#852 of 1448)
I agree that the loss of DD would be catastrophic to the WW and I don't think that Harry could ever replace him. However there has to be something to the presence of DD on the covers and the closing to OOTP. I would hate it to happen too but....
It is clear that there is a connection through DD to all the new ideas we have talked about on the forum. The old Heads, the founders, Voldy, and possibly the HBP.
Personally I hope this book is chock full of DD, because we have only scratched the surface to him and his power I believe. It is time for a DD to kick some butt.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 10:45 am (#853 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Ok, looking at it again, it looks like a swirl of something. Maybe a maze?
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KWeldon - Jun 14, 2005 10:54 am (#854 of 1448)
It looks to me like a snake in the form of a letter "S."
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LooneyLuna - Jun 14, 2005 11:00 am (#855 of 1448)
Looking at Gina's pic, I see the letter S. Also, in the top right, is that a drop of water or just part of the damaged ring? It looks like a droplet of water or perhaps a teardrop to me.
Thanks for posting those blow ups!
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Suspero - Jun 14, 2005 12:01 pm (#856 of 1448)
Professor
Thanks, Tomoe and Gina R. Snape, for the reassembled (sort of) ring images! Looking at those the shapes no longer look like impact marks but definitely look like an intaglio or other means of etching a crest or shield. Puts it back into the signet ring category. Could this be Slytherin's ring obtained by Voldemort? I have to say that now it looks like an "S" with a snake's head at the end of the top stroke. I don't know about "joined houses" but how about cracking Slytherin's power? Perhaps the charm on Harry broke a curse placed by Slytherin and Harry's scar means something MUCH BIGGER took place than just "a boy who lived"... ???
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 14, 2005 12:11 pm (#857 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Tomoé, I like your idea about it being a fractured Slytherin crest. Now, the big question is, what causes this fracture?
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KWeldon - Jun 14, 2005 12:18 pm (#858 of 1448)
Now, the big question is, what causes this fracture?
Gryffindor's sword, perhaps? Would they have come to blows?
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 14, 2005 12:22 pm (#859 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I don't take it that literally, KWeldon. I see it as representing a split in the Slytherin House.
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Steven Farrington - Jun 14, 2005 1:18 pm (#860 of 1448)
Hello....Just a quick thought....I don't know what the ring means, sorry to say, but....the "ring"( the mounting for the stone) is not broken, the ring is intact, the stone is cracked,...putting it together seems more confusing because there are pieces missing where the crack is...maybe it's one of Voldemort's rings,...he did leave a diary behind,...maybe this is repeating the Prophecy...." And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives."....the stone in the ring appears to be divided,...broken, split in two....and, there are joined/clapsed hands on that cover as well....well, that's my 2cents worth....
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Stringer - Jun 14, 2005 3:32 pm (#861 of 1448)
This has nothing to do with the book, but did anyone else hear JK would be on the Today show with Katie Couric June 15?
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 4:39 pm (#862 of 1448)
Back in business
Not at all, I'm not from the USA. So, was it a good interview?
Did we learn new stuff about HbP? (to stay on topic ^_~)
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GryffEndora - Jun 14, 2005 4:54 pm (#863 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Tomoe the 15th is Wednesday so it hasn't happened yet. The Today Show was soliciting questions for her on their website. We were listing questions we had submitted earlier on this thread, about a week & a half ago it started if you want to go back and check.
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 5:40 pm (#864 of 1448)
Back in business
Yes, I did post some myself, so the interview will be in a few hours. I hope someone will do a report. ^_^
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 6:02 pm (#865 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, don't get too excited now. Just saw this on TLC. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Update on Couric-Rowling Interview
On June 1, Katie Couric announced on "Today" that she'd be interviewing Jo Rowling in two weeks' time and invited fans to submit questions. However, she never said the interview would air in two weeks' time. An air date has never been announced. In fact, on June 8, just six days ago, Couric said again on the Today show that she'd be speaking to Rowling later this month. So, don't take anything literally or set any VCRs or TiVos until we have an actual air date. Thanks!
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Stringer - Jun 14, 2005 6:16 pm (#866 of 1448)
Thank you, I was begining to wonder why they weren't promoting it!
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GryffEndora - Jun 14, 2005 7:09 pm (#867 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Gina, I'm glad you posted that. I'm a bit late but I just noticed it myself. So we all wait with baited breath for the interview that may be sitting waiting to air.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 14, 2005 7:13 pm (#868 of 1448)
Could the ring be Sirius'? It was described as a heavy gold ring bearing the family crest.Thats all the description we got.I dont know how it would fit in. Its just I thought that some of the things they found while cleaning Grimmauld place might turn up later in story.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 7:28 pm (#869 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
You're welcome GryffEndora. Though with your new avatar and choice of words (baited breath), I feel the sudden urge to take a few steps back from my monitor.
And what of my request for a regular avatar picture of you, not in costume?
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GryffEndora - Jun 14, 2005 7:33 pm (#870 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Gina, as soon as I find a picture of me to put up I will but I must say, I don't like having my picture taken so It may take me a while. I'm working on it. Sadly, there were no picture's taken at the family picnic and my camera is not working or else I would have had one all ready for you.
I didn't even notice the breath reference, good catch!!!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 15, 2005 1:33 am (#871 of 1448)
It's not the Slytherin symbol, its "superman", Harry will soon be wearing underpants over his Hogwarts uniform
Seriously though, Madame Pomfrey - I love your suggestion about it being tied up with Sirius. Just over one month to go..... and counting down.
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Ponine - Jun 15, 2005 3:30 am (#872 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Thank you, Phelim - that Superman S is the first thing I saw, too...
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hells456 - Jun 15, 2005 4:01 am (#873 of 1448)
It looked like the shield in my daughter's Slytherin lego set to me.
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LooneyLuna - Jun 15, 2005 6:05 am (#874 of 1448)
I like the idea that the ring belonged to Sirius also. I noticed during a reread of OotP, that 12GP had plenty of serpent door handles.
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Chard11 - Jun 15, 2005 7:33 am (#875 of 1448)
Edited Jun 15, 2005 8:27 am
My thoughts in this post refer to the picture that Gina R Snape posted on 14th of June 2005 (#840 of 879).
On the ring I can clearly see an old man on the left hand side, he appears as though he’s looking over his shoulder towards us.
On the right hand side I can see what I assume is a woman with the right side of her face almost resting on her shoulder looking downwards towards us. However, the woman looks sad and also goblinish due to a long nose (sort of like a bent and knobbly carrot). Either that or she’s very ugly!
Also the crack/ lightning bolt / snake (as most seem to think it is), does not look like a any of those to me. The reason for this is that the two characters seem etched onto the gem, the woman seems further away than the man and this crack is just a part of the gem that has not been etched into. It is the shape of a crack/ snake/ lightning bolt because of the outline of the two characters.
I apologise if this in not clear I tried to explain what I saw as best I could.
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bella - Jun 15, 2005 9:04 am (#876 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Well I wish I could see what you do Chard, all I can make out is a broken bit of rock. The woman I think I can sort of see, but I don't think I can make out a man. Interesting theory though personally, I am going to have to stick with "Super Harry" as my choice for interpretation.
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Ann - Jun 15, 2005 9:38 am (#877 of 1448)
Brief change of topic: I was bemoaning on this thread a few months back the fact that I would be in Cairo on July 16th and would probably therefore miss the roll-out of HBP. Septentrion and Hollywand were both very sympathetic and reassuring, as I recall. (Thanks!) Anyway, I just arrived in Cairo, hit my local grocery store (admittedly a rather Western establishment) and there were posters all over it advising patrons of the possibility of sigining up for HBP. So of course I did! They assure me that I'll be able to pick it up on the 16th, though not until normal business hours. I was the 204th person to sign up! Just another indication of the popularity of the book!
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Chard11 - Jun 15, 2005 9:41 am (#878 of 1448)
Actually, after discovering I could zoom in on it I've realised that it's not a bent and knobbly carrot nose after all. It is, infact, the womans lace collar and it's covering up her mouth and chin. Oh and she is looking over her shoulder like the man.
Sorry Bella maybe it's my eyes going funny, can anyone else see what I've described?
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 10:00 am (#879 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I can finally see the serpent S shape in the shield. I have seen a face in profile on the left side of the ring however the eye is a reflection/cut line in the gemstone and the outline of the face is coincidental to the crack. Someone mentioned earlier that this ring really is the Harry Potter Rorschach Test.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 15, 2005 10:03 am (#880 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Ann, congratulations on being able to get the book!
Sorry, Chard. I can't see what you see. I can see faces, but they look very cartoonish to me and so I find it improbable that that's what's on the stone. I'm going for the cracked slytherin shield theory. Or, Superman is making a crossover.
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Hollywand - Jun 15, 2005 10:05 am (#881 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Hey Ann, I hope you have a wonderful visit in Cairo! Who knows, Rowling may take us to Egypt for Book Six and you will have the best seat in the house! My favorite Egyptian blessing to you: "May you never thirst!" Have a butterbeer!
I will be taking my students to see the Tut Exhibition at the LAMusee of Art, and the Bowers has a huge cache of mums from the British Museum. Can't wait!
On the ring logo, a some have suggested a snake, the shape could also be a dragon, as in "Never Tickle a Sleeping Dragon".
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 11:08 am (#882 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I had posted a trivia question recently about the Educational Decrees in OotP. This has got me thinking. These decrees were not repealed by the end of OotP. Is it possible that the ministry will still be interfering at Hogwarts and that it will not be the same as it was before Dolores? I think JKR said something about not wanting the term High Inquisitor to ever be used again after DJU but could the ministry still appoint teachers or meddle in other ways? What do you think?
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 11:12 am (#883 of 1448)
Back in business
Didn't Dumbledore asked Fudge to cancel all the Educational Decrees made by Umbridge? I believe it's now history, they all have much important stuff to do, the Ministry will be overwelmed with the VW2 and we'll have little ressources spare to meddle with Hogwarts's business.
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 12:00 pm (#884 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I can find where he tells Fudge to give the order to remove Umbrage from Hogwarts, tell the Aurors to stop looking for Hagrid, have 30 minutes odd DD's time and that messages addressed to the Headmaster of Hogwarts will reach DD. I can't find that he told him to cancel any other decrees. While the ministry may not try hard to interfear I bet Filch will still want to Whip the students now that he has Ministry Approval. Hopefully the whipping will only be administrable on the approval of the Headmaster.
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Steve Newton - Jun 15, 2005 12:03 pm (#885 of 1448)
Librarian
At the end of OOTP it was pretty clear that Dumbledore was THE power in the Wizarding World. I see no way that the Ministry will interfere with Hogwarts.
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 12:11 pm (#886 of 1448)
Back in business
I just reread that part, and there's no mention of the decrees. But I'm sure if Harry wrote to the Minister (old or new) and kindly ask them to allow him to play Quidditch again, they'll say yes anyway. As for the teacher, Dumbledore have until the begining of the term to find one, and the Minister have other priority, so they could provided a good candidate anyway.
Edit: and due to the current circumstances, I don't think anyone will mind if the decrees are not respected anyway, they all have much bigger fish to fry.
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septentrion - Jun 15, 2005 12:17 pm (#887 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Ann, I'm glad you made it to Cairo and will be able to get HBP in time. I hope you'll enjoy your stay !
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Choices - Jun 15, 2005 1:42 pm (#888 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think when Umbridge was relieved of her duties, the decrees were lifted also since they specifically regarded her and her authority to do things at Hogwarts. Harry's ban on playing quidditch was not a written thing - it was a verbal order from Umbridge if I remember correctly, so I think it would be gone with her dismissal from Hogwarts.
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Suspero - Jun 15, 2005 1:47 pm (#889 of 1448)
Professor
About the educational decrees, ever wonder what the previous twenty-odd said prior to OoP? JKR has said there will be a new Minister at the Ministry so it seems to me the decrees are moot unless somehow they're sealed with magic that enforces them. Considering the chaos in OoP that wouldn't seem to be the case. Wonder if they can be repealed like amendments? So maybe the next Educational Decree will simply revoke all the previous ones?
Wonder what all permanent scars Harry has now besides the one on his head?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 15, 2005 1:58 pm (#890 of 1448)
I found an interesting piece of information that I would like with the other members of the forum that could possibly be an indicator of the importance of McLaggen in HBP. The clan McLaggen is a sept or division of the Clan Robertson. The badge of the Robertsons is a hand holding an imperial crown.
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 3:03 pm (#891 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Nathan you are really rocking on the name!!! Hmmm, could Maclaggen be the prince or does s/he find the prince and give him the crown?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 15, 2005 3:43 pm (#892 of 1448)
Ann I'm glad you will be able to get your copy. It is so neat to think all around the world hundreds of thousands maybe millions will be reading the same book! A global book club. That thought just warms this Teacher Librarian's heart. Wow!
I hope JKR addresses several things fairly quickly: The Educational Decrees, #12 Grimauld, Kreacher. I think Ginny had the right of it, Harry will be able to play Quidditch when Umbridge has left. I'm sure since Fudge has publically admitted the return of Lord Thingy and Dumbledore has been reinstated to his various positions the Educational Decrees are a bad memory. I wonder if and when Harry will encounter Dolores Jane again. LPO
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Stringer - Jun 15, 2005 9:24 pm (#893 of 1448)
I wonder if and when Harry will encounter Dolores Jane again. LPO
Personally I hope it happens in HBP at a St. Mungo's trip, not that I want anyone to fall ill, I just hope the old bat is a life long resident...(clippty clop, clippty clop, can you hear the centaurs..)
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 15, 2005 9:42 pm (#894 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Clippty clop is such a nice soothing sound to me... but I'm a Saggitarius :-)
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 10:10 pm (#895 of 1448)
Back in business
LOL! So there are only two options avalable for these ex-DADA teachers, either they die or they get to St Mungo's as life long resident. Only those who were members of the Order before can expect to lead an almost normal life afterward. This is the real wording of the curse. ^_~
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Not So Headless Nikki - Jun 16, 2005 6:52 am (#896 of 1448)
Proud member of FSODUHP!
I don't really want to read the 800 prior posts, so I was wondering if someone could just kind of recap who you all think the HBP could be? A list of possible candidates would nice to have so that I could personally check off who I think it could be.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 16, 2005 7:07 am (#897 of 1448)
Hi, Nathan Zimmerman,
With regard to the name MacLaggan, et. al., this name is not a sept or name associated with the Donnachaidh, known to the English-speaking world as the Clan Robertson. The most important names in the Donnachiadh are Robertson, Reid and Duncan. Other names associated with Donnachaidh are Stark(s)/Starke/Starkey/etc., Macinroy/MacInRoe/etc., Collier. We are a Highland clan, centered around Atholl in the Southern Grampians.
The name Laggan is associated with Clan Logan. Although we love the Logans, they are not our relatives.
Thanks,
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Steve Newton - Jun 16, 2005 7:15 am (#898 of 1448)
Librarian
Nikki, as far as I can tell every named male character not specifically excluded by JKR has been considered. My own personal long shot choice is Dedalus Diggle.
Even one female character has been named, or hinted at.
Trevor has even gotten a few calls.
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Veritaserum - Jun 16, 2005 8:08 am (#899 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Which female character has been hinted at, Steve?
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Tomoé - Jun 16, 2005 8:29 am (#900 of 1448)
Back in business
Not So Headless Nikki, the names that comes around the most are Godric Gryffindor, Hagrid and a new character. There are also Lupin, Snape, Neville, Draco, one of the Weasley, Lucius, Grawp, Sirius, James, Dean Thomas, Seamus Finnigan, one of the Creevey brothers, Justin Finch-Fletchley, Blaise Zabini, one of the portraits, Slytherin, and many others that I can't remember of.
I myself believe the half-blood prince will be someone from the founders era, though not a founder himself.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Tomoe, thanks for that "healing" image. I still see the rounded triangular shield. I don't see the H Joanne R. Reid but I'll keep looking. I like your idea about the split in the ring representing the split in Hogwarts.
The loss of DD to the Wizarding world would be a tremendous blow. To everyone including Harry. Harry is safe as long as DD is there to protect him, but Harry is becoming a man and soon he will need to protect himself. OotP was the first time we saw how DD's protection could hurt Harry. I don't want it to be true. I don't like admitting it might possibly happen. I don't want to imagine the books without his presence but If DD moves on to a greater journey I'm sure he will find a way to still be with Harry and if it happens it will be for the best, eventually.
But it's not going to happen anyway, so, just, never mind. *Queen of Denial? *
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Wizadora - Jun 4, 2005 11:48 am (#852 of 1448)
I agree that the loss of DD would be catastrophic to the WW and I don't think that Harry could ever replace him. However there has to be something to the presence of DD on the covers and the closing to OOTP. I would hate it to happen too but....
It is clear that there is a connection through DD to all the new ideas we have talked about on the forum. The old Heads, the founders, Voldy, and possibly the HBP.
Personally I hope this book is chock full of DD, because we have only scratched the surface to him and his power I believe. It is time for a DD to kick some butt.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 10:45 am (#853 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Ok, looking at it again, it looks like a swirl of something. Maybe a maze?
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KWeldon - Jun 14, 2005 10:54 am (#854 of 1448)
It looks to me like a snake in the form of a letter "S."
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LooneyLuna - Jun 14, 2005 11:00 am (#855 of 1448)
Looking at Gina's pic, I see the letter S. Also, in the top right, is that a drop of water or just part of the damaged ring? It looks like a droplet of water or perhaps a teardrop to me.
Thanks for posting those blow ups!
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Suspero - Jun 14, 2005 12:01 pm (#856 of 1448)
Professor
Thanks, Tomoe and Gina R. Snape, for the reassembled (sort of) ring images! Looking at those the shapes no longer look like impact marks but definitely look like an intaglio or other means of etching a crest or shield. Puts it back into the signet ring category. Could this be Slytherin's ring obtained by Voldemort? I have to say that now it looks like an "S" with a snake's head at the end of the top stroke. I don't know about "joined houses" but how about cracking Slytherin's power? Perhaps the charm on Harry broke a curse placed by Slytherin and Harry's scar means something MUCH BIGGER took place than just "a boy who lived"... ???
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 14, 2005 12:11 pm (#857 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
Tomoé, I like your idea about it being a fractured Slytherin crest. Now, the big question is, what causes this fracture?
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KWeldon - Jun 14, 2005 12:18 pm (#858 of 1448)
Now, the big question is, what causes this fracture?
Gryffindor's sword, perhaps? Would they have come to blows?
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I Am Used Vlad - Jun 14, 2005 12:22 pm (#859 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
I don't take it that literally, KWeldon. I see it as representing a split in the Slytherin House.
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Steven Farrington - Jun 14, 2005 1:18 pm (#860 of 1448)
Hello....Just a quick thought....I don't know what the ring means, sorry to say, but....the "ring"( the mounting for the stone) is not broken, the ring is intact, the stone is cracked,...putting it together seems more confusing because there are pieces missing where the crack is...maybe it's one of Voldemort's rings,...he did leave a diary behind,...maybe this is repeating the Prophecy...." And either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives."....the stone in the ring appears to be divided,...broken, split in two....and, there are joined/clapsed hands on that cover as well....well, that's my 2cents worth....
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Stringer - Jun 14, 2005 3:32 pm (#861 of 1448)
This has nothing to do with the book, but did anyone else hear JK would be on the Today show with Katie Couric June 15?
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 4:39 pm (#862 of 1448)
Back in business
Not at all, I'm not from the USA. So, was it a good interview?
Did we learn new stuff about HbP? (to stay on topic ^_~)
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GryffEndora - Jun 14, 2005 4:54 pm (#863 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Tomoe the 15th is Wednesday so it hasn't happened yet. The Today Show was soliciting questions for her on their website. We were listing questions we had submitted earlier on this thread, about a week & a half ago it started if you want to go back and check.
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Tomoé - Jun 14, 2005 5:40 pm (#864 of 1448)
Back in business
Yes, I did post some myself, so the interview will be in a few hours. I hope someone will do a report. ^_^
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 6:02 pm (#865 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Well, don't get too excited now. Just saw this on TLC. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Update on Couric-Rowling Interview
On June 1, Katie Couric announced on "Today" that she'd be interviewing Jo Rowling in two weeks' time and invited fans to submit questions. However, she never said the interview would air in two weeks' time. An air date has never been announced. In fact, on June 8, just six days ago, Couric said again on the Today show that she'd be speaking to Rowling later this month. So, don't take anything literally or set any VCRs or TiVos until we have an actual air date. Thanks!
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Stringer - Jun 14, 2005 6:16 pm (#866 of 1448)
Thank you, I was begining to wonder why they weren't promoting it!
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GryffEndora - Jun 14, 2005 7:09 pm (#867 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Gina, I'm glad you posted that. I'm a bit late but I just noticed it myself. So we all wait with baited breath for the interview that may be sitting waiting to air.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 14, 2005 7:13 pm (#868 of 1448)
Could the ring be Sirius'? It was described as a heavy gold ring bearing the family crest.Thats all the description we got.I dont know how it would fit in. Its just I thought that some of the things they found while cleaning Grimmauld place might turn up later in story.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 14, 2005 7:28 pm (#869 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
You're welcome GryffEndora. Though with your new avatar and choice of words (baited breath), I feel the sudden urge to take a few steps back from my monitor.
And what of my request for a regular avatar picture of you, not in costume?
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GryffEndora - Jun 14, 2005 7:33 pm (#870 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Gina, as soon as I find a picture of me to put up I will but I must say, I don't like having my picture taken so It may take me a while. I'm working on it. Sadly, there were no picture's taken at the family picnic and my camera is not working or else I would have had one all ready for you.
I didn't even notice the breath reference, good catch!!!
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 15, 2005 1:33 am (#871 of 1448)
It's not the Slytherin symbol, its "superman", Harry will soon be wearing underpants over his Hogwarts uniform
Seriously though, Madame Pomfrey - I love your suggestion about it being tied up with Sirius. Just over one month to go..... and counting down.
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Ponine - Jun 15, 2005 3:30 am (#872 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Thank you, Phelim - that Superman S is the first thing I saw, too...
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hells456 - Jun 15, 2005 4:01 am (#873 of 1448)
It looked like the shield in my daughter's Slytherin lego set to me.
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LooneyLuna - Jun 15, 2005 6:05 am (#874 of 1448)
I like the idea that the ring belonged to Sirius also. I noticed during a reread of OotP, that 12GP had plenty of serpent door handles.
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Chard11 - Jun 15, 2005 7:33 am (#875 of 1448)
Edited Jun 15, 2005 8:27 am
My thoughts in this post refer to the picture that Gina R Snape posted on 14th of June 2005 (#840 of 879).
On the ring I can clearly see an old man on the left hand side, he appears as though he’s looking over his shoulder towards us.
On the right hand side I can see what I assume is a woman with the right side of her face almost resting on her shoulder looking downwards towards us. However, the woman looks sad and also goblinish due to a long nose (sort of like a bent and knobbly carrot). Either that or she’s very ugly!
Also the crack/ lightning bolt / snake (as most seem to think it is), does not look like a any of those to me. The reason for this is that the two characters seem etched onto the gem, the woman seems further away than the man and this crack is just a part of the gem that has not been etched into. It is the shape of a crack/ snake/ lightning bolt because of the outline of the two characters.
I apologise if this in not clear I tried to explain what I saw as best I could.
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bella - Jun 15, 2005 9:04 am (#876 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Well I wish I could see what you do Chard, all I can make out is a broken bit of rock. The woman I think I can sort of see, but I don't think I can make out a man. Interesting theory though personally, I am going to have to stick with "Super Harry" as my choice for interpretation.
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Ann - Jun 15, 2005 9:38 am (#877 of 1448)
Brief change of topic: I was bemoaning on this thread a few months back the fact that I would be in Cairo on July 16th and would probably therefore miss the roll-out of HBP. Septentrion and Hollywand were both very sympathetic and reassuring, as I recall. (Thanks!) Anyway, I just arrived in Cairo, hit my local grocery store (admittedly a rather Western establishment) and there were posters all over it advising patrons of the possibility of sigining up for HBP. So of course I did! They assure me that I'll be able to pick it up on the 16th, though not until normal business hours. I was the 204th person to sign up! Just another indication of the popularity of the book!
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Chard11 - Jun 15, 2005 9:41 am (#878 of 1448)
Actually, after discovering I could zoom in on it I've realised that it's not a bent and knobbly carrot nose after all. It is, infact, the womans lace collar and it's covering up her mouth and chin. Oh and she is looking over her shoulder like the man.
Sorry Bella maybe it's my eyes going funny, can anyone else see what I've described?
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 10:00 am (#879 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I can finally see the serpent S shape in the shield. I have seen a face in profile on the left side of the ring however the eye is a reflection/cut line in the gemstone and the outline of the face is coincidental to the crack. Someone mentioned earlier that this ring really is the Harry Potter Rorschach Test.
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Gina R Snape - Jun 15, 2005 10:03 am (#880 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Ann, congratulations on being able to get the book!
Sorry, Chard. I can't see what you see. I can see faces, but they look very cartoonish to me and so I find it improbable that that's what's on the stone. I'm going for the cracked slytherin shield theory. Or, Superman is making a crossover.
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Hollywand - Jun 15, 2005 10:05 am (#881 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Hey Ann, I hope you have a wonderful visit in Cairo! Who knows, Rowling may take us to Egypt for Book Six and you will have the best seat in the house! My favorite Egyptian blessing to you: "May you never thirst!" Have a butterbeer!
I will be taking my students to see the Tut Exhibition at the LAMusee of Art, and the Bowers has a huge cache of mums from the British Museum. Can't wait!
On the ring logo, a some have suggested a snake, the shape could also be a dragon, as in "Never Tickle a Sleeping Dragon".
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 11:08 am (#882 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I had posted a trivia question recently about the Educational Decrees in OotP. This has got me thinking. These decrees were not repealed by the end of OotP. Is it possible that the ministry will still be interfering at Hogwarts and that it will not be the same as it was before Dolores? I think JKR said something about not wanting the term High Inquisitor to ever be used again after DJU but could the ministry still appoint teachers or meddle in other ways? What do you think?
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 11:12 am (#883 of 1448)
Back in business
Didn't Dumbledore asked Fudge to cancel all the Educational Decrees made by Umbridge? I believe it's now history, they all have much important stuff to do, the Ministry will be overwelmed with the VW2 and we'll have little ressources spare to meddle with Hogwarts's business.
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 12:00 pm (#884 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I can find where he tells Fudge to give the order to remove Umbrage from Hogwarts, tell the Aurors to stop looking for Hagrid, have 30 minutes odd DD's time and that messages addressed to the Headmaster of Hogwarts will reach DD. I can't find that he told him to cancel any other decrees. While the ministry may not try hard to interfear I bet Filch will still want to Whip the students now that he has Ministry Approval. Hopefully the whipping will only be administrable on the approval of the Headmaster.
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Steve Newton - Jun 15, 2005 12:03 pm (#885 of 1448)
Librarian
At the end of OOTP it was pretty clear that Dumbledore was THE power in the Wizarding World. I see no way that the Ministry will interfere with Hogwarts.
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 12:11 pm (#886 of 1448)
Back in business
I just reread that part, and there's no mention of the decrees. But I'm sure if Harry wrote to the Minister (old or new) and kindly ask them to allow him to play Quidditch again, they'll say yes anyway. As for the teacher, Dumbledore have until the begining of the term to find one, and the Minister have other priority, so they could provided a good candidate anyway.
Edit: and due to the current circumstances, I don't think anyone will mind if the decrees are not respected anyway, they all have much bigger fish to fry.
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septentrion - Jun 15, 2005 12:17 pm (#887 of 1448)
Art by Makani, icon by Pearle
Ann, I'm glad you made it to Cairo and will be able to get HBP in time. I hope you'll enjoy your stay !
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Choices - Jun 15, 2005 1:42 pm (#888 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
I think when Umbridge was relieved of her duties, the decrees were lifted also since they specifically regarded her and her authority to do things at Hogwarts. Harry's ban on playing quidditch was not a written thing - it was a verbal order from Umbridge if I remember correctly, so I think it would be gone with her dismissal from Hogwarts.
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Suspero - Jun 15, 2005 1:47 pm (#889 of 1448)
Professor
About the educational decrees, ever wonder what the previous twenty-odd said prior to OoP? JKR has said there will be a new Minister at the Ministry so it seems to me the decrees are moot unless somehow they're sealed with magic that enforces them. Considering the chaos in OoP that wouldn't seem to be the case. Wonder if they can be repealed like amendments? So maybe the next Educational Decree will simply revoke all the previous ones?
Wonder what all permanent scars Harry has now besides the one on his head?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 15, 2005 1:58 pm (#890 of 1448)
I found an interesting piece of information that I would like with the other members of the forum that could possibly be an indicator of the importance of McLaggen in HBP. The clan McLaggen is a sept or division of the Clan Robertson. The badge of the Robertsons is a hand holding an imperial crown.
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GryffEndora - Jun 15, 2005 3:03 pm (#891 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Nathan you are really rocking on the name!!! Hmmm, could Maclaggen be the prince or does s/he find the prince and give him the crown?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 15, 2005 3:43 pm (#892 of 1448)
Ann I'm glad you will be able to get your copy. It is so neat to think all around the world hundreds of thousands maybe millions will be reading the same book! A global book club. That thought just warms this Teacher Librarian's heart. Wow!
I hope JKR addresses several things fairly quickly: The Educational Decrees, #12 Grimauld, Kreacher. I think Ginny had the right of it, Harry will be able to play Quidditch when Umbridge has left. I'm sure since Fudge has publically admitted the return of Lord Thingy and Dumbledore has been reinstated to his various positions the Educational Decrees are a bad memory. I wonder if and when Harry will encounter Dolores Jane again. LPO
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Stringer - Jun 15, 2005 9:24 pm (#893 of 1448)
I wonder if and when Harry will encounter Dolores Jane again. LPO
Personally I hope it happens in HBP at a St. Mungo's trip, not that I want anyone to fall ill, I just hope the old bat is a life long resident...(clippty clop, clippty clop, can you hear the centaurs..)
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 15, 2005 9:42 pm (#894 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Clippty clop is such a nice soothing sound to me... but I'm a Saggitarius :-)
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Tomoé - Jun 15, 2005 10:10 pm (#895 of 1448)
Back in business
LOL! So there are only two options avalable for these ex-DADA teachers, either they die or they get to St Mungo's as life long resident. Only those who were members of the Order before can expect to lead an almost normal life afterward. This is the real wording of the curse. ^_~
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Not So Headless Nikki - Jun 16, 2005 6:52 am (#896 of 1448)
Proud member of FSODUHP!
I don't really want to read the 800 prior posts, so I was wondering if someone could just kind of recap who you all think the HBP could be? A list of possible candidates would nice to have so that I could personally check off who I think it could be.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 16, 2005 7:07 am (#897 of 1448)
Hi, Nathan Zimmerman,
With regard to the name MacLaggan, et. al., this name is not a sept or name associated with the Donnachaidh, known to the English-speaking world as the Clan Robertson. The most important names in the Donnachiadh are Robertson, Reid and Duncan. Other names associated with Donnachaidh are Stark(s)/Starke/Starkey/etc., Macinroy/MacInRoe/etc., Collier. We are a Highland clan, centered around Atholl in the Southern Grampians.
The name Laggan is associated with Clan Logan. Although we love the Logans, they are not our relatives.
Thanks,
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Steve Newton - Jun 16, 2005 7:15 am (#898 of 1448)
Librarian
Nikki, as far as I can tell every named male character not specifically excluded by JKR has been considered. My own personal long shot choice is Dedalus Diggle.
Even one female character has been named, or hinted at.
Trevor has even gotten a few calls.
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Veritaserum - Jun 16, 2005 8:08 am (#899 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Which female character has been hinted at, Steve?
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Tomoé - Jun 16, 2005 8:29 am (#900 of 1448)
Back in business
Not So Headless Nikki, the names that comes around the most are Godric Gryffindor, Hagrid and a new character. There are also Lupin, Snape, Neville, Draco, one of the Weasley, Lucius, Grawp, Sirius, James, Dean Thomas, Seamus Finnigan, one of the Creevey brothers, Justin Finch-Fletchley, Blaise Zabini, one of the portraits, Slytherin, and many others that I can't remember of.
I myself believe the half-blood prince will be someone from the founders era, though not a founder himself.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 901 to 950)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:45 am
Steve Newton - Jun 16, 2005 8:31 am (#901 of 1448)
Librarian
I think that I have heard Tonks name mentioned. Using an extreme version of her metamorphmagi talent. I didn't take the suggestion seriously but it was made.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 16, 2005 9:17 am (#902 of 1448)
Joanne R. Ried, then the webpage for the Donnachaidh at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is inncorrect that is where I derived the information from that was referenced above. I do apologize.
The webpage for the Donnachaidh at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Motto: Virtutis gloria merces - "Glory is the reward of valour".
Badge: A hand holding an imperial crown.
Septs of the Clan: Collier, Colyear, Dobinson, Donachie, Duncan, Duncanson, Dunnachie, Inches, MacConachie, MacConnechy, MacDonachie, Macinroy, MacIver, MacIvor, Maclagen, MacRobbie, MacRobie, MacRobert, Reid, Roy, Stark, Tonnochy
Names associated with the clan: Coalyear...MacLagan MacLagane MacLagen MacLaggan MacLaggen MacLagine...
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Tomoé - Jun 16, 2005 9:28 am (#903 of 1448)
Back in business
They announced the Couric Interview is to be aired on July 17 and 18. I personally think it's plain stupid, they will be one book behind has the interview will air, and I somehow doubt Jo was very keen to gave strait answer concerning HbP as she talk with Couric yesterday. Possibly, half of the interview will be old news to us, so I don't see the relevance to air it post HbP.
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Grindylow - Jun 16, 2005 9:33 am (#904 of 1448)
I agree Tomoe....
I wonder why they wouldn't do it say Friday the 15th, in primetime, before the book is released? That makes more sense to me....
JM2K
Grindy
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Tomoé - Jun 16, 2005 9:50 am (#905 of 1448)
Back in business
Friday the 15th would be good idea, I'm sure book stores will air it for the queued people!
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mike miller - Jun 16, 2005 12:01 pm (#906 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
To change the topic a bit, I was trying to catch up on the official JKR website and noticed something in the "Rumors" section that may shed some light on what we'll get in HBP. Someone had asked if the Creevey brothers would be the new Gryffindor beaters. JKR responded by say no, that the new beaters would be a discovery of the new quidditch captain. It looks like we will have quidditch in HBP!!!!
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Good Evans - Jun 16, 2005 12:31 pm (#907 of 1448)
Practically perfect in every way
Tomoe - The Munchaussen ward for ex dada teachers at hogwarts - has quite a ring to it dont you thnk! I can just see them - Gilderoy toothily grinning, Delores hidden under her covers, twitching and the remaining beds not filled yet...
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Not So Headless Nikki - Jun 16, 2005 1:26 pm (#908 of 1448)
Proud member of FSODUHP!
Mike Miller - I read that too about Quidditch! And she said that the new beaters will be found by the new captain--do you think it'll be Harry?!? (Just wishful thinking on my part )
Thanks to everyone who gave me the list I wanted. I hadn't realized that virtually EVERYONE was on that list! lol Anywyays, my money is on GG. But only because I have read all these editorials on MuggleNet about the mirror affect of the books and since book 2 was about SS, then it would make sense that book 6 would be about GG.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 16, 2005 2:01 pm (#909 of 1448)
I'm with Steve, I'm voting for Dedalus Diggle. What a great name!
I was disappointed to read that the interview was going to be after the book is released. I may be too busy into my second read to see the interview! LPO
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bella - Jun 17, 2005 9:32 am (#910 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I was just on muggelnet and something in the newest interview with the American publishers(?) caught my attention which may point to an inadvertant clue about who the half-blood prince may be. It was mentioned that a young minor chararcter would take up a big role which to me increases the chances of teh prince being a child. No way to know yet though.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 17, 2005 9:47 am (#911 of 1448)
I like how Mr. Levine stated that one small detail from CoS has become the whole storyline for HBP. He was making that up of course... LPO
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So Sirius - Jun 17, 2005 11:03 am (#912 of 1448)
How come we haven't met any vampires yet, or have we? I wonder if the HBP is a reference to a vampire. I think there's enough proof they exist in Rowlings world, as they've been mentioned in every book thus far, so who are they? Is Voldemort a vampire or one of the founders like Slytherin? Here are some references someone else came up with for this theory.
SS, p. 71. Hagrid about Quirrel: "They say he met vampires in the Black Forest."
CoS, p. 44: "Voyages with Vampires by Gilderoy Lockhart"
PoA, Lupin: "Harry, Ron, come with me, I need a word about my vampire essay -"
GoF, p. 147. Percy about Rita Skeeter: "Last week she was saying we're wasting our time quibbling about cauldron thickness, when we should be stamping out vampires!"
OotP, p 426. Hagrid's Tale: "Ran inter a couple o' mad trolls on the Polish border, an' I had a sligh' disagreement with a vampire in a pub in Minsk."
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Tomoé - Jun 17, 2005 11:15 am (#913 of 1448)
Back in business
Maybe it will be the next DADA teacher, as Dean said in PoA. ^_~
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So Sirius - Jun 17, 2005 11:40 am (#914 of 1448)
Bella, do you mean this? "AL: "The idea that a pub[lication] date is part of America's cultural awareness is unique. This author has set up this incredibly elaborate puzzle, you know, putting a little piece here, a little piece there and still it's continually amazing that this little tiny minor detail from book two suddenly becomes a plot point - I'm making that up by the way, that's randomly chosen from my head [laughter]."
If this is what you're referring to, it doesn't suggest a person, but a minor detail. It could even be the sword.
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Tomoé - Jun 17, 2005 11:59 am (#915 of 1448)
Back in business
That brings us back to what Steve Kloves said: There's one thing in Chamber, actually, that Jo indicated will play later in the series. (CoS DVD, February 2003)
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 17, 2005 1:26 pm (#916 of 1448)
Hi, bella,
I loved that quote. I've been one of the strong advocates of Dean Thomas as the HBP. It'd be cool to be vindicated! ;-D
Accio! Half-Blood Prince
Thanks,
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Not So Headless Nikki - Jun 17, 2005 7:56 pm (#917 of 1448)
Proud member of FSODUHP!
On the newest MuggleNet editorial from today it stated the Ron and Harry would not be speding much time together (or something like that) in HBP. I was just wondering if JKR had a quote that actually supported that statement so I could learn more. Does anyone know of one?
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bella - Jun 18, 2005 10:46 am (#918 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Actually I was talking about this:
BM: "You never know who the kid, that's the other unbelievable thing, you never know who the kid that is gonna be connected and is so passionate about it. You think you do, but you don't."
But loooking back I'm sure I took it out of context (I didn't watch the video only read teh interview). It could be taken as a kid on the book but more likely I suppose is a kid reading the book.
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GryffEndora - Jun 18, 2005 11:07 am (#919 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Something Round Pink Spider told me Thursday when I was visiting is leading me to think that the tiny detail from CoS that becomes a plot point in HBP is Hermione's revealer.
Just thought I'd put it out there. *ducks for cover from flying dungbombs*
*If this is right - remember the idea came from Round Pink Spider! If it's wrong point dungbombs my way *
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Suspero - Jun 18, 2005 5:20 pm (#920 of 1448)
Professor
This has nothing to do with topic, just a little nonsense to carry along:
Since Warner Bros. has the film franchise they should make a spoof with Bugs Bunny as the Hare of Slytherin.
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Chemyst - Jun 18, 2005 6:03 pm (#921 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...they should make a spoof with Bugs Bunny as the Hare of Slytherin They could, but "What's up, Madame Pomfrey?" doesn't have much of a ring to it.
To hop back on topic, what is the likelihood that Madame Pomfrey would ever be called upon to run blood tests to establish full-blood or half-blood wizards? If the HBP is an heir of a past wizard, would she have a witch's equivalent of DNA tests to verify it? If the HBP turns out to be a real person, will he have to establish and prove his claim?
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Phoenix song - Jun 18, 2005 9:16 pm (#922 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
"They could, but "What's up, Madame Pomfrey?" doesn't have much of a ring to it."
Yeah, but I think that "What's up Grawp?" might actually have a nice sound! ('Course, seeing as how Grawp is so much taller than everybody else, I'd say that there's no much "up" higher than he is!) **ducks dungbombs and melted chocolate frogs**
I've wondered about the "Magical" equivalent of DNA. Surely there must be some way of testing these things in the WW! What did Marge say? "It all comes down to blood." (Eurgh!)
Barbie
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The giant squid - Jun 19, 2005 12:25 am (#923 of 1448)
Nyah...::chomps carrot:: What's up, Snape?
I'm sure there's a magical way to check someone's blood "type". The thing is, could they tell degrees, or just Pure, Half or Muggle? As Ron said, everyone's at least slightly mixed.
Not sure what this has to do with the HPB, though...
--Mike
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Catherine - Jun 19, 2005 5:50 am (#924 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
To hop back on topic, what is the likelihood that Madame Pomfrey would ever be called upon to run blood tests to establish full-blood or half-blood wizards?--Chemyst
Hmm...could there be a connection with the vial of what appeared to be blood in the Black drawing room (OoP)?
Also, I wonder if Harry's "half-bloodedness" was important for the spell Voldemort used to regenerate his body in GoF.
chomps carrot...Eh, what's up, Dark Lord?Nope. Doesn't have the same cache.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 19, 2005 8:23 am (#925 of 1448)
LOL Hare of Slytherin! Perfect role for Bugs.
I'm sure there are magical ways of telling if someone is Blood Related. No doubt the pure bloods have come up with ways to determine linage. LPO
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KWeldon - Jun 19, 2005 7:38 pm (#926 of 1448)
Something Round Pink Spider told me Thursday when I was visiting is leading me to think that the tiny detail from CoS that becomes a plot point in HBP is Hermione's revealer.
Gryffindora, wow, I'm blanking on this. What do you mean Hermione's revealer?
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emilythestrangew - Jun 19, 2005 8:23 pm (#927 of 1448)
Ok I don't know if someone has said this yet and I hope I don't get yelled at for my theory but what if Dumbledore was the Half blood Prince? I think one of JKRowling's clues was this sentence: "He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp." Was that a clue to who the HBP is? If so doesn't it sound a lot like an older or worn out Dumbledore? Also the book covers all have Dumbledore on them and one has Harry and (I think) his hand locked together. I don't know I'm just thinking of the possibilities (as I'm sure everyone is doing).
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Reading muggle - Jun 19, 2005 8:51 pm (#928 of 1448)
CoS was just on the TV. It raised a question which led me to a half-blood prince thought. The question was, why did Hagrid have the Crossbow at the ready when Harry and Ron paid him a visit under the invisibility cloak? Who was he expecting that would require Hagrid to have a Crossbow? Something makes me think he wasn't expecting the Chamber monster, in fact he seemed to know who he was expecting (I checked the book - same as the movie).
That led my thoughts to this Half-blood prince......what if the Half-blood prince is a "bad guy"? There have been a lot of folks theorized about, and almost all of them are so-called good guys. The book titles: Philosopher's Stone, the Chamber of Secrets, the Goblet of fire all led Harry to a confrontation with a Voldemort (I call him Tommy boy). Even PoA and OoP lead him to a confrontation with evil (though Wormtail is a stretch) (and if you're also wondering - the order kept Harry from knowing about the dept of mysteries). What if the same is true for the Half-blood prince?
Anyway, just a thought. I'll go back to my quiet lurking now.
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Phoenix song - Jun 19, 2005 8:52 pm (#929 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
KWeldon, I hope that GryffEndora doesn't mind if I step in here to answer for her. But I happen to know what she's talking about and wish to be of assistance!
In CoS, Hermione takes out a "Revealer" and rubs it across the pages of Riddle's diary in an attempt to see if the Diary had been written in invisible ink. Since JKR doesn't usually put in things like this for no apparent reason, we can assume that it's possible that this "Revealer" might come up again!
Remember that very odd scene in which Alice Longbottom gives Neville empty gum wrappers? Gran remarked that she'd had already given him enough to wall paper his room with them. It seems important to Alice that she gives this to Neville. It's also fortunate that Neville keeps them!
There are many of us that have considered the possibility that Alice may be trying to give Neville a message using those "empty" gum wrappers. Wouldn't it be awesome if a Revealer were rubbed across one of them to find out that Neville's parents were trying to tell him something important?!
Just my thoughts, of course!
Barbie
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pottermom34 - Jun 19, 2005 9:04 pm (#930 of 1448)
That would be quite interesting Barbie, I wonder what they might say.
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Phoenix song - Jun 19, 2005 9:09 pm (#931 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
pottermom, I personally think that they may reveal to Neville the danger that he and his Gran are in from his Uncle Algie. Or Uncle Pond Scum as we like to call him! (Hint: Algie is the phonetic equivalent of Algae, which is the scum that floats on top of ponds. I wouldn't trust someone that's named after scum, gives questionable gifts, and drops me headfirst out of upstairs windows, would you?)
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Jun 19, 2005 9:09 pm (#932 of 1448)
Yet another HBP theory or at least a twist on an older theory. Isn't it July 16th yet!!!
"In the mid-1300s, Godric's Hollow was the home of Bowman Wright, the inventor of the Golden Snitch (QA4)." Source: Wizard Places - HP Lexicon
I have a theory about this tidbit and the HBP. Does anyone think that the fact that James & Lily Potter and Bowman Wright lived in Godric's Hollow is just a coincidence? What if James was the heir to the royalties for the Golden Snitch? James as the heir of Mr. Wright (just couldn’t help myself ;-))?
How do Wizards make real Galleons? There was Lockhart, a very popular writer. But, an invention like the Golden Snitch should over the years have garnered some real huge sums of Galleons!!!!! And James seemed to be wealthy and a bit of a snob.
Now, I’m not saying Bowman Wright is the HBP. But, a Prince should have some wealth. And a smart wealthy HBP would recognize the Golden Snitch as a great investment!!!!!
Finally, what better way to keep an eye on your investment than to have it nearby. Maybe build the Golden Snitch factory in Godric’s Hollow? My money would be on Godric Gryffindor as the HBP!!!!!
Isn’t it July 16th yet. ;-) GC
PS Dean Thomas and Remus Lupin still also seem excellent HBP candidates. They are both Half-bloods. If either is a Prince maybe revealed in Book 6. ;-) GC
PPS A guess of Godric as the HBP beats Trevor or Crookshanks as the HBP. I'm keeping my picks for the HBP with beings with two legs. ;-) GC
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Suspero - Jun 19, 2005 9:21 pm (#933 of 1448)
Professor
Well, I'm reasonably sure it's not Filch. Being a Squib would mean he must be the only pureblood around, even if it was a minor detail revealed in CoS.
nyah. keep yer pumpkin juice, it's carrots fer me...
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Veritaserum - Jun 19, 2005 9:30 pm (#934 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Emily, I personally agree that Dumbledore is a very good candidate for the HBP, though I do not think that description is of him. It does not line up right with what we already know of DD: auburn hair (when he was younger), not tawny; blue eyes, not gold. I think the mysterious person is either McLaggan or the new DADA teacher or both.
And Reading Muggle, I also think the HBP could be a bad guy. 'Twould be very interesting if he was. I mean, none of us even really know what the half-blood prince is in the first place.
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Voldechance - Jun 20, 2005 3:49 am (#935 of 1448)
Well all I've just joined and re-read Chamber of Secrets where the HBP is mentioned. Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but I am really sure that the HBP is Justin Finch-Fletchley (JFF)! See p 73 UK paperback edition and the clue is pretty apparent. JFF mentions that "His name was down for Eton". For those of you that don't know Eton is one of the top public schools in the UK and if I'm not mistaken (it might have been Harrow the other major public school in the UK) then this is where our current royal princes also went. JFF is also mentioned elsewhere in the book but only briefly. But I really do think that Eton is what swings it for me...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 20, 2005 4:36 am (#936 of 1448)
I'm rooting for Dumbledore. But it may be a character we have not met. Not long now! LPO
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pottermom34 - Jun 20, 2005 6:54 am (#937 of 1448)
I still think good or bad, it'll be a new character. It could even be the new DADA teacher.
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So Sirius - Jun 20, 2005 8:00 am (#938 of 1448)
Edited Jun 20, 2005 9:08 am
Voldechance, that's funny that you say that, because I was just rereading COS too and he stood out most for me, as well. I had a couple things on the list, that Harry might have discovered but there was no story line about: the hand of glory, Malfoys goods being sold and what might be left in the house, Percys girlfriend and why he might have been down in the dungeons that day and could she possibly be a muggle and do they have a child at some point, etc., and some things with Hagrid, Dumbledore and GG, Dobby and even Lockhart. But the one that stood out the most was Justin Finch-Fletchley, until I realized that his admission about being muggle was central to this story. So, i'm not completely sure the telling was for a furture scenario or more relevant to this plot.
I think what I can't get past though, is Mr. Weasley. The admission that he loves muggles, is obsessed with muggle items, works in the misuse of muggle artifacts office, etc. I don't think this is all by chance and there's really no deep story about it. The flying car baffles me. Why would it take on a life of it's own, live in the forest, etc.? I think this, for me, says that the Weasleys might not only be our King, but our HBP too.
Edit: I just read some posts up top and agree that the HBP could easily be a baddie. I was originally of the Malfoy is the HBP idea, for this position and wonder still about his role in all this and think Dracos detour might be a clue. Also, I like the thinking on the gum wrappers. I personally think they're too out of it to be sending secret clues and it's just Nevilles way of holding on to something nice from his mum. But it's a good thought.
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 8:49 am (#939 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Phoenix Song - thanks for explaining about the revealer. I didn't get here in time.
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Phoenix song - Jun 20, 2005 9:15 am (#940 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
You're welcome GryffEndora. I hoped that you wouldn't mind me stepping in. I didn't want to leave anybody waiting for an explanation of such an excellent idea!
Barbie
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 9:21 am (#941 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
No problem Phoenix. After my trip to visit RPS I feel we are close friends through her. I know how closely the two of you work on your research. I really hope to be able to help with that soon.
On the idea of Borgin & Burkes coming into play again, when I asked RPS what she thought ab0ut the cursed opal necklace she hinted to the opals that Madame Maxime was wearing. I hope Maxime isn't carrying a cursed object & what was she doing in Knockturn Alley? Seems like she and Hagrid have even more in common that I first thought.
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Phoenix song - Jun 20, 2005 9:27 am (#942 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GryffEndora, I also feel as if we're kindred spirits on this search. Feel free to e-mail me anytime!
About Madame Maxime, there are many suspicious clues surrounding her. We may find out some great stuff in HBP. I don't want to give away too much here.... but just considering that there have only been three necklaces so far in the entire series is an indication that anytime we see necklaces we should take notice! The three necklaces so far have been the cursed opal necklace, Luna's butterbeer bottle cap necklace, and the Gurg's necklace of human-looking bones. Maxime's necklace isn't actually called a necklace, but that she has something "on" her neck is a interesting clue!
I'm looking forward to all of the answers that we're going to be receiving in the HBP!!
Barbie
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Night Owl - Jun 20, 2005 10:15 am (#943 of 1448)
I don't know if this has been approached or not. But in the back of my mind when the first meeting for the DA. And they entered the Hogshead Bar, and Harry seemed to recognize the bartender. Saying that he looked familiar, I felt that it had to be someone that he knows. The discription of him as tall and with a lenghty beard, plus the smell of goats etc. I believe that this is Alberforth, I think that this man and DD could be twins tho not exact twins. And I don't know if it has been talked about here. But the meaning of half-blood may not be about wizard and muggle blood lineage. Could it be something else in the wizarding world that it could be. If they are heirs as twins could this be a half-blood prince? I have always thought there was more to DD's brother than just a mere mention of him. Especially as DD is so powerful. And another thing that really bothered me in the movie of POA was when DD raised his hand to look at the picture of the fat lady and his fingernails were just horrible. Long, discolored and almost dirty looking. I can not believe that DD would have had this kind of spooky looking appearance. Tho that could be a Cinema contamination. But I thought it very strange that they would have done that. And at other times DD's fingernails did'nt seem to look that way. I am not good at describing my thoughts sometimes so forgive me if I have confused you. But I still think there is reason to believe that there is more to this brother than meets the eye. He is also mentioned in one of the pictures also. Either with the OOTP or the wedding picture of the Potters. Can not remember which, But I think it was the Order.
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 11:47 am (#944 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Night Owl - JKR confirmed in a chat that the bartender at the Hogshead is indeed Aberforth.
Sunday 15 August 2004 J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival
Why is the barman of the Hog’s Head vaguely familiar to Harry? Is he Dumbledore’s brother?
Ooh—you are getting good. Why do you think that it is Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like the goat clue—I sniggered to myself about that one.
Aberforth was in the picture that Moody showed Harry of the original order.
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Night Owl - Jun 20, 2005 1:34 pm (#945 of 1448)
Thanks Gryffendora. I missed that JKR had confirmed that. But I am still convinced that he will be involved with the story in the last two books.
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 1:36 pm (#946 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I know someone who thinks we may have seen Aberforth in disguise several times and maybe even at Hogwarts. So you may very well be right.
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Liz Mann - Jun 20, 2005 4:10 pm (#947 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I know someone who thinks we may have seen Aberforth in disguise several times and maybe even at Hogwarts.
Why does this person think that?
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Thomas Phifer - Jun 21, 2005 9:51 am (#948 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jun 21, 2005 9:52 am
Love the new pic of the ring and the hands clasped. Just 24 more days. Does anyone have the transcript of the interview of Jk and Leaky? I havent heard a thing about it. I have only just finished reading the latest 150 posts. Thanks- Thomas Phifer
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GryffEndora - Jun 21, 2005 10:34 am (#949 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Liz Mann this is a quote from an old newsletter of Round Pink Spider's. She may have changed her mind about this but I thought it was a neat idea.
I suspect that Professor Grubbly-Plank may actually be Dumbledore’s brother, Aberforth, who obviously has an affinity for animals (he likes goats, anyway). The name Grubbly-Plank sounds like a pun on “dirty table,” and the Hog’s Head, at which Aberforth [is] the bartender, definitely has plenty of dirty tables (and glasses, and floors, and…) Prof. Grubbly-Plank also smokes a pipe, unusual for a woman, she has a “severe haircut”, and her first name is Wilhelmina, a feminine form of Wilhelm (Dumbledore also has a Germanic name, Wulfric, as one of his several baptismal names).
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Tomoé - Jun 21, 2005 1:30 pm (#950 of 1448)
Back in business
About the reveller, there was another one on JKR's website, maybe she wanted to remind us that revellers existed before HbP.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Librarian
I think that I have heard Tonks name mentioned. Using an extreme version of her metamorphmagi talent. I didn't take the suggestion seriously but it was made.
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jun 16, 2005 9:17 am (#902 of 1448)
Joanne R. Ried, then the webpage for the Donnachaidh at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is inncorrect that is where I derived the information from that was referenced above. I do apologize.
The webpage for the Donnachaidh at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Motto: Virtutis gloria merces - "Glory is the reward of valour".
Badge: A hand holding an imperial crown.
Septs of the Clan: Collier, Colyear, Dobinson, Donachie, Duncan, Duncanson, Dunnachie, Inches, MacConachie, MacConnechy, MacDonachie, Macinroy, MacIver, MacIvor, Maclagen, MacRobbie, MacRobie, MacRobert, Reid, Roy, Stark, Tonnochy
Names associated with the clan: Coalyear...MacLagan MacLagane MacLagen MacLaggan MacLaggen MacLagine...
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Tomoé - Jun 16, 2005 9:28 am (#903 of 1448)
Back in business
They announced the Couric Interview is to be aired on July 17 and 18. I personally think it's plain stupid, they will be one book behind has the interview will air, and I somehow doubt Jo was very keen to gave strait answer concerning HbP as she talk with Couric yesterday. Possibly, half of the interview will be old news to us, so I don't see the relevance to air it post HbP.
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Grindylow - Jun 16, 2005 9:33 am (#904 of 1448)
I agree Tomoe....
I wonder why they wouldn't do it say Friday the 15th, in primetime, before the book is released? That makes more sense to me....
JM2K
Grindy
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Tomoé - Jun 16, 2005 9:50 am (#905 of 1448)
Back in business
Friday the 15th would be good idea, I'm sure book stores will air it for the queued people!
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mike miller - Jun 16, 2005 12:01 pm (#906 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
To change the topic a bit, I was trying to catch up on the official JKR website and noticed something in the "Rumors" section that may shed some light on what we'll get in HBP. Someone had asked if the Creevey brothers would be the new Gryffindor beaters. JKR responded by say no, that the new beaters would be a discovery of the new quidditch captain. It looks like we will have quidditch in HBP!!!!
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Good Evans - Jun 16, 2005 12:31 pm (#907 of 1448)
Practically perfect in every way
Tomoe - The Munchaussen ward for ex dada teachers at hogwarts - has quite a ring to it dont you thnk! I can just see them - Gilderoy toothily grinning, Delores hidden under her covers, twitching and the remaining beds not filled yet...
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Not So Headless Nikki - Jun 16, 2005 1:26 pm (#908 of 1448)
Proud member of FSODUHP!
Mike Miller - I read that too about Quidditch! And she said that the new beaters will be found by the new captain--do you think it'll be Harry?!? (Just wishful thinking on my part
) Thanks to everyone who gave me the list I wanted. I hadn't realized that virtually EVERYONE was on that list! lol Anywyays, my money is on GG. But only because I have read all these editorials on MuggleNet about the mirror affect of the books and since book 2 was about SS, then it would make sense that book 6 would be about GG.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 16, 2005 2:01 pm (#909 of 1448)
I'm with Steve, I'm voting for Dedalus Diggle. What a great name!
I was disappointed to read that the interview was going to be after the book is released. I may be too busy into my second read to see the interview! LPO
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bella - Jun 17, 2005 9:32 am (#910 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I was just on muggelnet and something in the newest interview with the American publishers(?) caught my attention which may point to an inadvertant clue about who the half-blood prince may be. It was mentioned that a young minor chararcter would take up a big role which to me increases the chances of teh prince being a child. No way to know yet though.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 17, 2005 9:47 am (#911 of 1448)
I like how Mr. Levine stated that one small detail from CoS has become the whole storyline for HBP. He was making that up of course... LPO
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So Sirius - Jun 17, 2005 11:03 am (#912 of 1448)
How come we haven't met any vampires yet, or have we? I wonder if the HBP is a reference to a vampire. I think there's enough proof they exist in Rowlings world, as they've been mentioned in every book thus far, so who are they? Is Voldemort a vampire or one of the founders like Slytherin? Here are some references someone else came up with for this theory.
SS, p. 71. Hagrid about Quirrel: "They say he met vampires in the Black Forest."
CoS, p. 44: "Voyages with Vampires by Gilderoy Lockhart"
PoA, Lupin: "Harry, Ron, come with me, I need a word about my vampire essay -"
GoF, p. 147. Percy about Rita Skeeter: "Last week she was saying we're wasting our time quibbling about cauldron thickness, when we should be stamping out vampires!"
OotP, p 426. Hagrid's Tale: "Ran inter a couple o' mad trolls on the Polish border, an' I had a sligh' disagreement with a vampire in a pub in Minsk."
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Tomoé - Jun 17, 2005 11:15 am (#913 of 1448)
Back in business
Maybe it will be the next DADA teacher, as Dean said in PoA. ^_~
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So Sirius - Jun 17, 2005 11:40 am (#914 of 1448)
Bella, do you mean this? "AL: "The idea that a pub[lication] date is part of America's cultural awareness is unique. This author has set up this incredibly elaborate puzzle, you know, putting a little piece here, a little piece there and still it's continually amazing that this little tiny minor detail from book two suddenly becomes a plot point - I'm making that up by the way, that's randomly chosen from my head [laughter]."
If this is what you're referring to, it doesn't suggest a person, but a minor detail. It could even be the sword.
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Tomoé - Jun 17, 2005 11:59 am (#915 of 1448)
Back in business
That brings us back to what Steve Kloves said: There's one thing in Chamber, actually, that Jo indicated will play later in the series. (CoS DVD, February 2003)
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 17, 2005 1:26 pm (#916 of 1448)
Hi, bella,
I loved that quote. I've been one of the strong advocates of Dean Thomas as the HBP. It'd be cool to be vindicated! ;-D
Accio! Half-Blood Prince
Thanks,
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Not So Headless Nikki - Jun 17, 2005 7:56 pm (#917 of 1448)
Proud member of FSODUHP!
On the newest MuggleNet editorial from today it stated the Ron and Harry would not be speding much time together (or something like that) in HBP. I was just wondering if JKR had a quote that actually supported that statement so I could learn more. Does anyone know of one?
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bella - Jun 18, 2005 10:46 am (#918 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Actually I was talking about this:
BM: "You never know who the kid, that's the other unbelievable thing, you never know who the kid that is gonna be connected and is so passionate about it. You think you do, but you don't."
But loooking back I'm sure I took it out of context (I didn't watch the video only read teh interview). It could be taken as a kid on the book but more likely I suppose is a kid reading the book.
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GryffEndora - Jun 18, 2005 11:07 am (#919 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Something Round Pink Spider told me Thursday when I was visiting is leading me to think that the tiny detail from CoS that becomes a plot point in HBP is Hermione's revealer.
Just thought I'd put it out there. *ducks for cover from flying dungbombs*
*If this is right - remember the idea came from Round Pink Spider! If it's wrong point dungbombs my way *
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Suspero - Jun 18, 2005 5:20 pm (#920 of 1448)
Professor
This has nothing to do with topic, just a little nonsense to carry along:
Since Warner Bros. has the film franchise they should make a spoof with Bugs Bunny as the Hare of Slytherin.
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Chemyst - Jun 18, 2005 6:03 pm (#921 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...they should make a spoof with Bugs Bunny as the Hare of Slytherin They could, but "What's up, Madame Pomfrey?" doesn't have much of a ring to it.
To hop back on topic, what is the likelihood that Madame Pomfrey would ever be called upon to run blood tests to establish full-blood or half-blood wizards? If the HBP is an heir of a past wizard, would she have a witch's equivalent of DNA tests to verify it? If the HBP turns out to be a real person, will he have to establish and prove his claim?
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Phoenix song - Jun 18, 2005 9:16 pm (#922 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
"They could, but "What's up, Madame Pomfrey?" doesn't have much of a ring to it."
Yeah, but I think that "What's up Grawp?" might actually have a nice sound! ('Course, seeing as how Grawp is so much taller than everybody else, I'd say that there's no much "up" higher than he is!) **ducks dungbombs and melted chocolate frogs**
I've wondered about the "Magical" equivalent of DNA. Surely there must be some way of testing these things in the WW! What did Marge say? "It all comes down to blood." (Eurgh!)
Barbie
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The giant squid - Jun 19, 2005 12:25 am (#923 of 1448)
Nyah...::chomps carrot:: What's up, Snape?
I'm sure there's a magical way to check someone's blood "type". The thing is, could they tell degrees, or just Pure, Half or Muggle? As Ron said, everyone's at least slightly mixed.
Not sure what this has to do with the HPB, though...
--Mike
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Catherine - Jun 19, 2005 5:50 am (#924 of 1448)
Canon Seeker
To hop back on topic, what is the likelihood that Madame Pomfrey would ever be called upon to run blood tests to establish full-blood or half-blood wizards?--Chemyst
Hmm...could there be a connection with the vial of what appeared to be blood in the Black drawing room (OoP)?
Also, I wonder if Harry's "half-bloodedness" was important for the spell Voldemort used to regenerate his body in GoF.
chomps carrot...Eh, what's up, Dark Lord?Nope. Doesn't have the same cache.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 19, 2005 8:23 am (#925 of 1448)
LOL Hare of Slytherin! Perfect role for Bugs.
I'm sure there are magical ways of telling if someone is Blood Related. No doubt the pure bloods have come up with ways to determine linage. LPO
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KWeldon - Jun 19, 2005 7:38 pm (#926 of 1448)
Something Round Pink Spider told me Thursday when I was visiting is leading me to think that the tiny detail from CoS that becomes a plot point in HBP is Hermione's revealer.
Gryffindora, wow, I'm blanking on this. What do you mean Hermione's revealer?
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emilythestrangew - Jun 19, 2005 8:23 pm (#927 of 1448)
Ok I don't know if someone has said this yet and I hope I don't get yelled at for my theory but what if Dumbledore was the Half blood Prince? I think one of JKRowling's clues was this sentence: "He looked rather like an old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp." Was that a clue to who the HBP is? If so doesn't it sound a lot like an older or worn out Dumbledore? Also the book covers all have Dumbledore on them and one has Harry and (I think) his hand locked together. I don't know I'm just thinking of the possibilities (as I'm sure everyone is doing).
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Reading muggle - Jun 19, 2005 8:51 pm (#928 of 1448)
CoS was just on the TV. It raised a question which led me to a half-blood prince thought. The question was, why did Hagrid have the Crossbow at the ready when Harry and Ron paid him a visit under the invisibility cloak? Who was he expecting that would require Hagrid to have a Crossbow? Something makes me think he wasn't expecting the Chamber monster, in fact he seemed to know who he was expecting (I checked the book - same as the movie).
That led my thoughts to this Half-blood prince......what if the Half-blood prince is a "bad guy"? There have been a lot of folks theorized about, and almost all of them are so-called good guys. The book titles: Philosopher's Stone, the Chamber of Secrets, the Goblet of fire all led Harry to a confrontation with a Voldemort (I call him Tommy boy). Even PoA and OoP lead him to a confrontation with evil (though Wormtail is a stretch) (and if you're also wondering - the order kept Harry from knowing about the dept of mysteries). What if the same is true for the Half-blood prince?
Anyway, just a thought. I'll go back to my quiet lurking now.
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Phoenix song - Jun 19, 2005 8:52 pm (#929 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
KWeldon, I hope that GryffEndora doesn't mind if I step in here to answer for her. But I happen to know what she's talking about and wish to be of assistance!
In CoS, Hermione takes out a "Revealer" and rubs it across the pages of Riddle's diary in an attempt to see if the Diary had been written in invisible ink. Since JKR doesn't usually put in things like this for no apparent reason, we can assume that it's possible that this "Revealer" might come up again!
Remember that very odd scene in which Alice Longbottom gives Neville empty gum wrappers? Gran remarked that she'd had already given him enough to wall paper his room with them. It seems important to Alice that she gives this to Neville. It's also fortunate that Neville keeps them!
There are many of us that have considered the possibility that Alice may be trying to give Neville a message using those "empty" gum wrappers. Wouldn't it be awesome if a Revealer were rubbed across one of them to find out that Neville's parents were trying to tell him something important?!
Just my thoughts, of course!
Barbie
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pottermom34 - Jun 19, 2005 9:04 pm (#930 of 1448)
That would be quite interesting Barbie, I wonder what they might say.
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Phoenix song - Jun 19, 2005 9:09 pm (#931 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
pottermom, I personally think that they may reveal to Neville the danger that he and his Gran are in from his Uncle Algie. Or Uncle Pond Scum as we like to call him! (Hint: Algie is the phonetic equivalent of Algae, which is the scum that floats on top of ponds. I wouldn't trust someone that's named after scum, gives questionable gifts, and drops me headfirst out of upstairs windows, would you?)
Barbie
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Gerald Costales - Jun 19, 2005 9:09 pm (#932 of 1448)
Yet another HBP theory or at least a twist on an older theory. Isn't it July 16th yet!!!
"In the mid-1300s, Godric's Hollow was the home of Bowman Wright, the inventor of the Golden Snitch (QA4)." Source: Wizard Places - HP Lexicon
I have a theory about this tidbit and the HBP. Does anyone think that the fact that James & Lily Potter and Bowman Wright lived in Godric's Hollow is just a coincidence? What if James was the heir to the royalties for the Golden Snitch? James as the heir of Mr. Wright (just couldn’t help myself ;-))?
How do Wizards make real Galleons? There was Lockhart, a very popular writer. But, an invention like the Golden Snitch should over the years have garnered some real huge sums of Galleons!!!!! And James seemed to be wealthy and a bit of a snob.
Now, I’m not saying Bowman Wright is the HBP. But, a Prince should have some wealth. And a smart wealthy HBP would recognize the Golden Snitch as a great investment!!!!!
Finally, what better way to keep an eye on your investment than to have it nearby. Maybe build the Golden Snitch factory in Godric’s Hollow? My money would be on Godric Gryffindor as the HBP!!!!!
Isn’t it July 16th yet. ;-) GC
PS Dean Thomas and Remus Lupin still also seem excellent HBP candidates. They are both Half-bloods. If either is a Prince maybe revealed in Book 6. ;-) GC
PPS A guess of Godric as the HBP beats Trevor or Crookshanks as the HBP. I'm keeping my picks for the HBP with beings with two legs. ;-) GC
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Suspero - Jun 19, 2005 9:21 pm (#933 of 1448)
Professor
Well, I'm reasonably sure it's not Filch. Being a Squib would mean he must be the only pureblood around, even if it was a minor detail revealed in CoS.
nyah. keep yer pumpkin juice, it's carrots fer me...
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Veritaserum - Jun 19, 2005 9:30 pm (#934 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Emily, I personally agree that Dumbledore is a very good candidate for the HBP, though I do not think that description is of him. It does not line up right with what we already know of DD: auburn hair (when he was younger), not tawny; blue eyes, not gold. I think the mysterious person is either McLaggan or the new DADA teacher or both.
And Reading Muggle, I also think the HBP could be a bad guy. 'Twould be very interesting if he was. I mean, none of us even really know what the half-blood prince is in the first place.
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Voldechance - Jun 20, 2005 3:49 am (#935 of 1448)
Well all I've just joined and re-read Chamber of Secrets where the HBP is mentioned. Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this but I am really sure that the HBP is Justin Finch-Fletchley (JFF)! See p 73 UK paperback edition and the clue is pretty apparent. JFF mentions that "His name was down for Eton". For those of you that don't know Eton is one of the top public schools in the UK and if I'm not mistaken (it might have been Harrow the other major public school in the UK) then this is where our current royal princes also went. JFF is also mentioned elsewhere in the book but only briefly. But I really do think that Eton is what swings it for me...
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 20, 2005 4:36 am (#936 of 1448)
I'm rooting for Dumbledore. But it may be a character we have not met. Not long now! LPO
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pottermom34 - Jun 20, 2005 6:54 am (#937 of 1448)
I still think good or bad, it'll be a new character. It could even be the new DADA teacher.
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So Sirius - Jun 20, 2005 8:00 am (#938 of 1448)
Edited Jun 20, 2005 9:08 am
Voldechance, that's funny that you say that, because I was just rereading COS too and he stood out most for me, as well. I had a couple things on the list, that Harry might have discovered but there was no story line about: the hand of glory, Malfoys goods being sold and what might be left in the house, Percys girlfriend and why he might have been down in the dungeons that day and could she possibly be a muggle and do they have a child at some point, etc., and some things with Hagrid, Dumbledore and GG, Dobby and even Lockhart. But the one that stood out the most was Justin Finch-Fletchley, until I realized that his admission about being muggle was central to this story. So, i'm not completely sure the telling was for a furture scenario or more relevant to this plot.
I think what I can't get past though, is Mr. Weasley. The admission that he loves muggles, is obsessed with muggle items, works in the misuse of muggle artifacts office, etc. I don't think this is all by chance and there's really no deep story about it. The flying car baffles me. Why would it take on a life of it's own, live in the forest, etc.? I think this, for me, says that the Weasleys might not only be our King, but our HBP too.
Edit: I just read some posts up top and agree that the HBP could easily be a baddie. I was originally of the Malfoy is the HBP idea, for this position and wonder still about his role in all this and think Dracos detour might be a clue. Also, I like the thinking on the gum wrappers. I personally think they're too out of it to be sending secret clues and it's just Nevilles way of holding on to something nice from his mum. But it's a good thought.
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 8:49 am (#939 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Phoenix Song - thanks for explaining about the revealer. I didn't get here in time.
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Phoenix song - Jun 20, 2005 9:15 am (#940 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
You're welcome GryffEndora. I hoped that you wouldn't mind me stepping in. I didn't want to leave anybody waiting for an explanation of such an excellent idea!
Barbie
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 9:21 am (#941 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
No problem Phoenix. After my trip to visit RPS I feel we are close friends through her. I know how closely the two of you work on your research. I really hope to be able to help with that soon.
On the idea of Borgin & Burkes coming into play again, when I asked RPS what she thought ab0ut the cursed opal necklace she hinted to the opals that Madame Maxime was wearing. I hope Maxime isn't carrying a cursed object & what was she doing in Knockturn Alley? Seems like she and Hagrid have even more in common that I first thought.
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Phoenix song - Jun 20, 2005 9:27 am (#942 of 1448)
Dumbledore did not speak for a moment; he looked as though he was trying to make up his mind about something. At last he said, "I am sure. I trust Severus Snape completely." (HbP, p. 549)
GryffEndora, I also feel as if we're kindred spirits on this search. Feel free to e-mail me anytime!
About Madame Maxime, there are many suspicious clues surrounding her. We may find out some great stuff in HBP. I don't want to give away too much here.... but just considering that there have only been three necklaces so far in the entire series is an indication that anytime we see necklaces we should take notice! The three necklaces so far have been the cursed opal necklace, Luna's butterbeer bottle cap necklace, and the Gurg's necklace of human-looking bones. Maxime's necklace isn't actually called a necklace, but that she has something "on" her neck is a interesting clue!
I'm looking forward to all of the answers that we're going to be receiving in the HBP!!
Barbie
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Night Owl - Jun 20, 2005 10:15 am (#943 of 1448)
I don't know if this has been approached or not. But in the back of my mind when the first meeting for the DA. And they entered the Hogshead Bar, and Harry seemed to recognize the bartender. Saying that he looked familiar, I felt that it had to be someone that he knows. The discription of him as tall and with a lenghty beard, plus the smell of goats etc. I believe that this is Alberforth, I think that this man and DD could be twins tho not exact twins. And I don't know if it has been talked about here. But the meaning of half-blood may not be about wizard and muggle blood lineage. Could it be something else in the wizarding world that it could be. If they are heirs as twins could this be a half-blood prince? I have always thought there was more to DD's brother than just a mere mention of him. Especially as DD is so powerful. And another thing that really bothered me in the movie of POA was when DD raised his hand to look at the picture of the fat lady and his fingernails were just horrible. Long, discolored and almost dirty looking. I can not believe that DD would have had this kind of spooky looking appearance. Tho that could be a Cinema contamination. But I thought it very strange that they would have done that. And at other times DD's fingernails did'nt seem to look that way. I am not good at describing my thoughts sometimes so forgive me if I have confused you. But I still think there is reason to believe that there is more to this brother than meets the eye. He is also mentioned in one of the pictures also. Either with the OOTP or the wedding picture of the Potters. Can not remember which, But I think it was the Order.
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 11:47 am (#944 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Night Owl - JKR confirmed in a chat that the bartender at the Hogshead is indeed Aberforth.
Sunday 15 August 2004 J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival
Why is the barman of the Hog’s Head vaguely familiar to Harry? Is he Dumbledore’s brother?
Ooh—you are getting good. Why do you think that it is Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like the goat clue—I sniggered to myself about that one.
Aberforth was in the picture that Moody showed Harry of the original order.
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Night Owl - Jun 20, 2005 1:34 pm (#945 of 1448)
Thanks Gryffendora. I missed that JKR had confirmed that. But I am still convinced that he will be involved with the story in the last two books.
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GryffEndora - Jun 20, 2005 1:36 pm (#946 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I know someone who thinks we may have seen Aberforth in disguise several times and maybe even at Hogwarts. So you may very well be right.
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Liz Mann - Jun 20, 2005 4:10 pm (#947 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I know someone who thinks we may have seen Aberforth in disguise several times and maybe even at Hogwarts.
Why does this person think that?
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Thomas Phifer - Jun 21, 2005 9:51 am (#948 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jun 21, 2005 9:52 am
Love the new pic of the ring and the hands clasped. Just 24 more days. Does anyone have the transcript of the interview of Jk and Leaky? I havent heard a thing about it. I have only just finished reading the latest 150 posts. Thanks- Thomas Phifer
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GryffEndora - Jun 21, 2005 10:34 am (#949 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Liz Mann this is a quote from an old newsletter of Round Pink Spider's. She may have changed her mind about this but I thought it was a neat idea.
I suspect that Professor Grubbly-Plank may actually be Dumbledore’s brother, Aberforth, who obviously has an affinity for animals (he likes goats, anyway). The name Grubbly-Plank sounds like a pun on “dirty table,” and the Hog’s Head, at which Aberforth [is] the bartender, definitely has plenty of dirty tables (and glasses, and floors, and…) Prof. Grubbly-Plank also smokes a pipe, unusual for a woman, she has a “severe haircut”, and her first name is Wilhelmina, a feminine form of Wilhelm (Dumbledore also has a Germanic name, Wulfric, as one of his several baptismal names).
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Tomoé - Jun 21, 2005 1:30 pm (#950 of 1448)
Back in business
About the reveller, there was another one on JKR's website, maybe she wanted to remind us that revellers existed before HbP.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
- Posts : 1440
Join date : 2011-02-19
Age : 52
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 951 to 1000)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:47 am
Harry-ette - Jun 21, 2005 1:31 pm (#951 of 1448)
Interesting theory, but if prof Grubbly Plank was Aberforth then Harry's thought process wouldn't have been that the barman was 'vaguely familiar'. It would have been more like - 'Why on earth is professor Grubbly-Plank serving drinks in a dodgy pub and masquerading as a man?!'
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Veritaserum - Jun 21, 2005 3:42 pm (#952 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Well, if Albus Dumbledore was the Transfiguration teacher, then perhaps his brother is skilled at this also.
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Amilia Smith - Jun 21, 2005 6:15 pm (#953 of 1448)
Thomas: As I understand it, Leaky and Mugglenet will not be interviewing JKR until July 16th. Katie Couric has already interviewed her, but her interview will not be airing until after Harry Potter Day (the 18th, I think).
Mills.
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KWeldon - Jun 21, 2005 7:21 pm (#954 of 1448)
Would anyone be interested in, say, 48 hrs (or whenever) before the release, that we all just post one word on this thread: who we think the HbP is going to be?
If this is problematic in the eyes of the mods, I certainly understand. I just think it would be more informative than a vote thread, where you can only tell how many voted for so-and-so, not WHO voted for so-and-so, and then let's see who's right!
Just a suggestion....
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 22, 2005 6:50 am (#955 of 1448)
I like it. I wondered why that hasn't been a vote question.I like the idea of being able to see who voted for who.That way the people who are right(if any)can take a bow.
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Thomas Phifer - Jun 22, 2005 8:55 am (#956 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jun 22, 2005 9:03 am
Thank You Amilia Smith. Yes thats a fun idea. Im not sure about the mods. But I'm sure we can figure out a way. Something Like:
Names____________Abreviation
Doby_________________D
Dumbledore___________DD
Dursley______________Du
and so on....
something like that except it will have all the names of the possible HBP's and their abreviations. We all choose one and type in the abreviation. But I think this will require a new thread.
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Liz Mann - Jun 22, 2005 4:03 pm (#957 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think this can be done in a poll, it's just that we need to use the poll's discussion thread as well. We cast our vote, and then say as usual who we voted for on the discussion.
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KWeldon - Jun 22, 2005 4:11 pm (#958 of 1448)
I don't think it's necessary to use abbreviations; just type in the name and let everyone see the list for themselves. I wasn't necessarily envisioning a tally at the end, either.
Liz, I sure do miss your poll thread.
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Thomas Phifer - Jun 23, 2005 8:58 am (#959 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jun 23, 2005 8:58 am
Sounds good Griffindora and lizzman isnt Aberforth DD's brother who is a little on the strange side and doesnt he work at the Pigs Head?
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 9:50 am (#960 of 1448)
HI everyone! I am new to this so if I ask something that has already been brought up please let me know. I am rereading book four to get ready for 6. (can not wait!) In the beginning of chapter one book four... the Riddles maid finds them all dead, Mr. and Mrs Riddle and their grown up son Tom. The gardener Frank is being held for the murders. Frank said the only person he saw at the house that day was a teenage boy,dark-hair and pale. That being that in the Chamber of Secrets Voldemort says his name is Tom M. Riddle, in the diary, and when Harry is taken back and shown the past DD calls Voldemort Tom. So what is Voldemort's real name? Did I miss something? and if I did please let me know. Also Dobby can do magic with out the use of a wand. Is that common for elves? Again I am sorry if these are "already covered" questions.
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Madame Kulich - Jun 23, 2005 10:56 am (#961 of 1448)
Heather - I don't think you missed anything. Voldemort (Tom Riddle) was named after his (muggle) father, who was, of course, Tom Riddle as well. As for House Elves, JKR touched on the magic of house elves on her Web site in the FAQ I believe. They don't need wands.
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Tomoé - Jun 23, 2005 11:57 am (#962 of 1448)
Back in business
Plus, no non-human creature is permitted to carry or use a wand, as Diggory said after they found Winky with a wand at the QWC.
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Choices - Jun 23, 2005 12:37 pm (#963 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Heather (welcome) - Go back to book two when Harry meets Tom Riddle down in the Chamber of Secrets and Tom writes his name - Tom Marvolo Riddle - in the air with his wand and then scrambles the letters to reveal "I am Lord Voldemort". Tom had begun to use the name Lord Voldemort while he was still at Hogwarts as a student. He hated his "filthy Muggle father's name" and refused to use it once he began to develope his powers and his alternate persona - Lord Voldemort.
House elfs are very magical creatures and don't need wands to do magic, and they are not allowed to use wands by Wizard Law.
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 1:12 pm (#964 of 1448)
Hi there I am new to this site and not sure what has been talked about before so if I mess up something I am sorry. I do have a question...I an rereading bok four. Did Voldemort's Mom name him Tom and then his Step-brother was also named Tom?
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 1:14 pm (#965 of 1448)
Thank you for responding! In book four it said that the maid found all three of them dead. Mr and Mrs. Riddle and their grown up son Tom. And that the gradener had seen a teenager go into the house. So were both the Riddle boys named Tom?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 23, 2005 1:18 pm (#966 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Mr and Mrs Riddle were Voldemorts grandparents, Tom was his father... whom young Voldie was named after.
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 4:31 pm (#967 of 1448)
Thank you! Another question... JKR was asked what DD ment when he said remember my last...about the howlers he had sent. JKR said that ment he had sent other letters to just Aunt Petunia. Do you think that Harry has to return to the Dursley's every year to protect him but also to protect Aunt Petunia? Because Voldemort needed Harry's blood to "grow". Well, what if all the rumors are true and Harry is related to Godric and Voldemort needs the blood line to kill Harry. Or he wants to take out his hate on the heirs of Godric. Maybe Harry has to return in order for both he and his Aunt to be protected. What would have DD sent to just Petunia? Just a thought. Also in book 4 Voldemort tells Wormtail "By that time my faithful servant will hae joined us." Faithful is off set in italics. Who do you think the faithful one is?
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Ruthie - Jun 23, 2005 4:56 pm (#968 of 1448)
I believe Voldemort was talking about Barty Crouch Jnr. as his faithful sevant because Barty was the only one who never lost faith in his master.
As to the howlers I'm also very curious but perhaps that conversation is best had in another thread? : )
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 5:06 pm (#969 of 1448)
Oh sorry. I am new to this whole thing.
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haymoni - Jun 23, 2005 5:10 pm (#970 of 1448)
There is a blurb on TLC - an interview with Jim Dale - it lists a spoiler. I actually had to read the article a couple of times before I caught it.
It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know but it made me feel better.
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Liz Mann - Jun 23, 2005 5:41 pm (#971 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think I must have missed something. Everyone keeps saying that J.K. has said that a character will die in book six. I have never heard her say that. On her FAQ, she has the question "Are you going to kill anymore characters?" and she answers "Yes. Sorry." But I thought she was talking about the last TWO books, not specifically book six. And people seem to have narrowed it down to ONE character in HBP that will die. When did she say that?
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Steve Newton - Jun 23, 2005 6:36 pm (#972 of 1448)
Librarian
What's bothersome about naming Barty, Jr. as the faithful one is that we saw him deny being a DE in the penseive scene.
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Ruthie - Jun 23, 2005 7:00 pm (#973 of 1448)
Love2Travel (was it Heather?) just wanted to say sorry - didn't mean to sound pushy in my other post : ) Welcome to the forum!
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pottermom34 - Jun 23, 2005 8:11 pm (#974 of 1448)
I agree liz, that's what I thought when I read that, I also don't remember anything about a main character and some have been guessing weasleys. Where is everyone getting the idea it'll be a main character. If we've missed any other quotes please indulge us.
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Ginerva Potter - Jun 23, 2005 8:39 pm (#975 of 1448)
Actually, Steve, I just reread GOF and he doesn't say he wasn't a DE. The scene is this:
Sr: "We have heard the evidence against you. The four of you stand accused of capturing an Auror - Frank Longbottom _ and subjecting him to the Cruciatus Curse, believing him to have knowledge of the present whereabouts of your exiled master, He-who-must-not-be-named-"
Jr: "Father, I didn't!" shrieked the boy. "I didn't, I swear it, Father, don't send me back to the dementors--"
Then Jr goes on to say: "Mother, stop him, Mother, I didn't do it, it wasn't me!" and "No! Mother, no! I didn't do it, I didn't do it, I didn't know! Don't send me there, don't let him!"
I have always thought that he was saying he wasn't a DE, too. But this time when I reread it, I thought maybe he was only denying his involvement so he could continue looking for Voldemort. I'm not sure who I think the most loyal servant is or who is the one who was too cowardly to return or who has left the DE forever.
Hopefully, we will find all this out in HBP!
Ginny
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 24, 2005 6:35 am (#976 of 1448)
I agree with Steve,that for Crouch Jr. to be the "faithful"one is bothersome. I still think Voldemort is referring to someone else,someone who is kept cleverly hidden.Voldemort praises his followers who would rather die than renounce him,such as Bella.I can't see Crouch jr. being thought of in this way when he so clearly denied Voldemort. Crouch Jr. kept crying "it wasn't me!"what if the "faithful" one used polyjuice to look like Crouch Jr?I think there is a chance he became a servant only after he went to Askaban and his father's disbelief in him helped to drive him that way.
Has anyone else noticed on the HBP screensaver that if you look at the boat,at the prow there looks like a face with a black pointed hat in the waters reflection? Or is it just me again?
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 7:59 am (#977 of 1448)
Ruthie~ No problem! I am learning as I go. Thank you for the welcome! (and it was Heather...I learned how to change my name)
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 24, 2005 8:10 am (#978 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Couch Jr. denied having tortured the Longbottom's. I don't believe there was anything in his denial which stated he wasn't a DE or that he was rejecting Voldemort. He was only stating that of these charges he was not guilty. If I am off base please let me know but that is how I perceive the scene and later events. I still think he was the faithful one Voldemort was talking about.
Mickey
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Chemyst - Jun 24, 2005 8:27 am (#979 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Yes, Mickey, that is the way I read it– that Barty Jr. was a DE, but did not torture the Longbottoms.
He'd also begged not to be sent back to the dementors; which means he had been there before. Winky could probably tell us an interesting story. Junior seems to act a lot like a rebellious PK.(preacher's kid)
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 24, 2005 8:28 am (#980 of 1448)
Hi,
I would agree that Barty, Jr., is The Faithful Follower, for the following reasons.
1. He never denied being a follower of Voldemort's, i.e. a Deatheater.
2. He did deny torturing the Longbottoms and went to Azkaban for a crime he did not commit.
3. Although his father connived to get his son out of Azkaban, he held him a prisoner by using the Imperious Curse and clothign him in an Invisibility Cloak.
4. In spite of Barty Sr's and Winky's efforts, Barty Jr. stole and wand and immediately made the Dark Mark, summoning other Death Eaters to him.
5. Immediately upon his release by Voldemort and Peter Pettigrew, Barty Jr., volunteered to enslave Moody, impersonate him as a Hogwart's teacher and ensure that Harry would arrive at the graveyard at the end of the Tri-Wizard Tournament.
6. When Voldemort's plan failed, Barty, Jr., bought Harry to his office, declaring that he alone had been faithful to Voldemort, his emnity towards all Death Eaters who had denied Voldemort, his station as Voklemort's most faithful servant.
7. Barty, Jr, then attempted to murder Harry, declaring that by doing so, he would assure his position as Voldemort's most faithful servant.
To my mind, there is no doubt whatsoever that Barty Crouch, Junior, was indeed Lord Voldemort's most faithful servant.
Thanks,
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 24, 2005 8:31 am (#981 of 1448)
You are right Mickey.I worded it wrong.I meant that he denied being involved which is not the same as denying Voldemort, but still..I believe that it is someone else. Come on HBP.
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Choices - Jun 24, 2005 9:53 am (#982 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Joanne - 3. Although his father connived to get his son out of Azkaban, he held him a prisoner by using the Imperious Curse and clothign him in an Invisibility Cloak.
Actually this was all his Mother's doing - his father just humored her because she was ill and wanted her son out of Azkaban.
Joanne - 4. In spite of Barty Sr's and Winky's efforts, Barty Jr. stole and wand and immediately made the Dark Mark, summoning other Death Eaters to him.
I don't think he conjured the Dark Mark to summon DE's to him - I think he did it to glorify Voldemort and let the people know he was still active. The DE's fled when they saw the Dark Mark, so it didn't make them go to Barty, Jr. They had no clue who had conjured it.
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GryffEndora - Jun 24, 2005 9:59 am (#983 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The more I think about Barty Crouch Jr., and the more arguments I read, the more I am convinced that Jr. is a cleverly placed fall-guy. JKR has led us to believe that the faithful servant has been dealt with and is no longer a threat so we will stop looking for him. I am strongly inclined to believe that the faithful servant is still out there. Jr may have joined LV's side but we have no evidence he ever had the mark.
Then there is the strange reference in the circle of Death Eaters that RPS pointed out to me. When LV looks at a space large enough for 2 people and says the Lestrange's should stand here, but they were faithful, they went to Azkaban rather than denounce me. All fine and good until you remember that there were 3 Lestrange's in Azkaban. How could 3 fit in place of 2 unless 1 was already free. Go back and look at Rabastan's blank stare in the Pensive and think about other blank stares (Marietta's in DD's office for example). Maybe that wasn't Rabastan after all, maybe it was someone transfigured to look like him with a modified memory.
Constant Vigilance!!!
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Choices - Jun 24, 2005 10:08 am (#984 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Oh, interesting ideas GryffEndora - more fuel for the fires that are burning in my brain. LOL
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 10:44 am (#985 of 1448)
How very intersting! I would agree that Barty JR didn't summon the DE's to him he did it as a tribute to LV. I must admit that I am leaning to the side that Barty JR is the Faithful one. So then who is the one to cowardly to return? (as Ginerva put in her post) And the one who has left forever? Also anyone know what the core of Ron's wand is?
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Harry-ette - Jun 24, 2005 10:45 am (#986 of 1448)
Good news for UK HP fans - Amazon have just emiled me to say they are reducing the price of HBP to £8.99, which can only be a good thing!
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Steve Newton - Jun 24, 2005 10:54 am (#987 of 1448)
Librarian
My current speculation is that Fudge is the one who left forever.
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Denise P. - Jun 24, 2005 11:00 am (#988 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
If Fudge is the DE who left forever, wouldn't he still have the dark mark? If he had a dark mark, he would never have been protesting so strongly that LV was not coming back, the mark would have surely shown him this for a fact. I don't know, Fudge is an incompetant blowhard but I don't think he is or ever was a DE. The only way I think this could fly is if there were someway to actually remove the dark mark and somehow, I don't think that is possible short of amputation.
I think the DE who left forever is between Snape and Karkaroff.
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GryffEndora - Jun 24, 2005 11:11 am (#989 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Choices - I'm glad you like the ideas, but they came to me from Round Pink Spider. I wish I had been perceptive enough to find them myself. I hope they lead to fun at the bonfire in your brain. I know they have led to some fun thoughts for me as well!
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Madam Pince - Jun 24, 2005 11:38 am (#990 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Well, GryffEndora or Round Pink Spider or whomever, I really like the point you make about the 3 people/2 spaces thing and the blank stare of Rastaban's! I totally missed both of those things! See, this is why this is such a great place -- 300+ heads are so much better than one!
I am in the camp of those who is leaning towards the idea that Barty Jr. is not the "faithful servant." A bit too convenient, if you ask me, and it would be such a cool "gotcha!" for JKR to do. And I have long suspected that the whole "circle of Death Eaters" scene contains some clues for us -- I am always scouring it for ideas but usually come away frustrated. Just the other day I came across a scrap of paper I was using for a bookmark, and on it I had long ago doodled a little chart / diagram of the "circle" with all the names and blanks and the whole bit. Ha! No, we're not obsessed, are we?
Interesting thought about Fudge there, Steve, but I think I'm with Denise. I think Fudge is just JKR's sly nudge at poking fun at incompetent politicians. What is that quote from some movie -- aaaagh, my brain is getting old and I can't remember which it was... "I think he's just......a nincompoop. Well, he's either a nincompoop or some kind of bug."
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librarian314 - Jun 24, 2005 11:44 am (#991 of 1448)
Hey all!
If Fudge isn't a DE, than he may well have be a wizard like the elder Blacks, supporting Voldemort's ideas but not becoming an actual DE.
I think that Fudge also could have faked not knowing about the Dark Mark. He's been carefully portrayed to be a bit of a bumbler, with rose coloured glasses. He could well be acting. We're supposed to think of him as being vaguely good natured, until people start dying and then he turns on Harry. He refuses to see what others tell him and sets the wizarding world's defense against Voldemort back a year.
Fudge worries me because he was one of the first on the scene when Pettigrew blew up the street of Muggles. I think he had a hand in sending Sirius to Azkaban without a proper trial. He also turned on Harry the moment he started being more of a problem than a boon. Instead of thinking about things and investigating, he jumps to conclusions.
It'll be interesting to read what becomes of Fudge in HBP. Will he be ousted as MoM early in the book? Will he bumble around for another year making a mess of things and be bounced toward the end? How will he lose his position?
I'm really glad there are only 21 days left!!!
*michelle the librarian**
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 2:06 pm (#992 of 1448)
The faithful servant was Barty Crouch Jr. On page 651 of book 4 LV says "...and one who remains my faithful servant, and who has already reenterd my service." Page 652 "He is at Hogwarts that faithful servant, and it was through his efforts that our young friend arrived here tonight."
The rest of the saying on page 651 is: "And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course...and (then the quote on the top of the posting.) So who do you all think is the coward and who has left for forever? And do you think it was Barty Jr. LV was talking about? Or someone else? I would also like to add that I love the oppertunity to hash these ideas over with you!
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 24, 2005 2:16 pm (#993 of 1448)
Well spotted L2T!
I think the Prince is Theodore Nott. There - said it now.
Aurora xx
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 24, 2005 2:34 pm (#994 of 1448)
I think it is someone we have not met yet or they have only been mentioned in passing. My second guess is Dumbledore. LPO
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 2:45 pm (#995 of 1448)
Oh! Oh.... what do you make of this? Page 655 book 4 LV is talking to the circle of DE's telling them how he "came back" and how Wormtail had brought him Bertha Jorkins. "She told me that the triwizard Tournament would be played at Hogwarts this year. She told me that she knew of a faithful Death Eater who would be only too willing to help me, if I could only contact him. She told me many things...but the means I used to break the Memory Charm upon her were powerful,..." Ok, who is the DE she told him about? Who put the memory charm on her?
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Amilia Smith - Jun 24, 2005 2:51 pm (#996 of 1448)
I thought it was Crouch Jr. again. Bertha went to see Crouch Sr. at home for some reason. He wasn't home, but she heard voices. On investigation, she discovered Winky talking to Crouch Jr. Crouch Sr. came home, found that Bertha had discovered his career ruining secret, and modified her memory.
I think this information is from the Crouch Jr. tells all via Veritaserum scene at the end of the book, which I don't have with me currently, so I can't give you exact quotes.
Mills.
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 3:12 pm (#997 of 1448)
Thank you for pointing that out! Can anyone think where it is mentioned what Ron's wand core is? I wonder because JKR has told us what Harry and Hermiones are but I have not found out what Ron's is. Olviander's wands have three cores. Just a bunny trail I am off on.
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Amilia Smith - Jun 24, 2005 3:17 pm (#998 of 1448)
Unicorn tail hair.
On the train ride in SS, Ron laments that his secondhand wand is so worn out and beat up that the unicorn hair is almost poking through.
Then, after dealing with the snapped wand all through CoS, he shows off his new wand to Harry in Diagon Alley at the first part of PoA. I don't remember the dimensions, but it was once again unicorn hair in the core.
Mills.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 24, 2005 3:34 pm (#999 of 1448)
Hi,
Choices, I was thinking of the following passages when I made my comments:
1. Barty's father did indeed get his son out of Azkaban:
GoF, Scholastic, page 684: '"My father smuggled me out, disguised as my mother...."' page 685: '"How did your father subdue you? said Dumbledore. "The Imperious Curse," Crouch said. "I was under my father's control. I was forced to wear an Invisibility Cloak day and night. I was always with the house-elf...."'
2. With regard to the Dark Mark, I contend that Barty, Jr., was trying to get the attention of his fellow DEs, admonish them and attempt to escape:
GoF, Scholastic, page 686-7: ' "... We heard the Death Eaters. The ones who had never been to Azkaban. The ones who had never suffered for my master. They had turned their backs on him. They were not enslaved, as I was. They were free to seek him, but they did not. They were merely making sport of Muggles.... I was angry. I had the wand. I wanted to attack them for their disloyalty to my master.... I wanted to show those Death Eaters what loyalty to the Dark Lord meant, and to punish them for their lack of it. I used the stolen wand to cast the Dark Mark into the sky."'
3. As for Barty Crouch, Jr., being the faithful servant:
Ibid.page 688: '"My master conceived a plan, based upon the information Bertha ahd given him. He needed me. He arrived at our house near midnight..." "He asked me whther I wsa ready to risk everything for him. I was ready. It was my dream, my greatest ambition, to serve him, to prove myself to him. He told me he needed to place a faithful servant at Hogwarts. A servant who would guide Harry Potter through the Triwizard Tournament without appearing to do so. A servant who would watch over Harry Potter. Ensure he reached the Triwizard Cup. Turn the cup into a Portkey, which would take the first person who touched it to my master." "You needed Alastor Moody", said Dumbledore.... "Wormtail and I did it. We had prepared Polyjuice Potion beforehand. We journeyed to his house. Moody put up a struggle. There was a commotion. We managed to subdue him hust in time. Force him into a comparment of his own magical trunk. Took some of his hair and added it to the potion. I drank it; I became Moody's double. I took his leg and his eye. I was ready to face Arthur Weasley when he arrived to sort out the Muggles ..."'
Gryffindora, I find no problem with the three Lestranges.
OotP, Scholastic, Pge 788: 'Harry Put his ear close to the door to listen and heard Lucius Malfoy roar: "Leave Nott, leave him, I say, the Dark Lord will not care for Nott's injuries as much as losing the prophecy - Jugson, come back here, we need to organize! We'll split into pairs and search, and don't forget, be gentle with Potter until we've got the prophecy, you can kill the others if necessary - Bellatrix, Rudolphus, you take the left, Crabbe, Rabastan, go right -Jugson, Dolohov, the door straight ahead-MacNair and Avery through here - Rookwood, over there - Mulciber, come with me!"
They all seem ready, willing and able to do their bit for Lord Voldemort.
Thanks,
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Madam Pince - Jun 24, 2005 3:42 pm (#1000 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Love2Travel, the Lexicon itself (not the Lexicon Forum) has a section on Wands (I think it's in the "Magic and Magical Theory" section)which describes all the wands we have any information about and what they're made of, etc. That may be helpful to your idea you're brewing...
Joanne, I think what GryffEndora was speculating was that perhaps Rastaban (the real one) was never really sent to Azkaban at all. The "circle of DEs" scene was at the end of GoF -- the scene you're quoting where all the names are mentioned is at the end of OoP, after they've broken out of Azkaban. In the "circle of DEs" scene, perhaps Voldy was saying "the LeStranges" (who could fit into the two empty spots) meaning Bellatrix and Rudolphus, who at that time were imprisoned in Azkaban, but he didn't refer to the third LeStrange, Rastaban, because Voldy was aware that the "real" Rastaban was standing right there already filling one of the spots in the circle (perhaps one of the silent hooded ones or whatever) because the "Rastaban" that was in Azkaban wasn't really Rastaban, but rather somebody who'd been transfigured or Polyjuiced or whatever to appear to be Rastaban.
At least, that's what I thought GryffEndora meant. Did I get it right? Now my head hurts....
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Interesting theory, but if prof Grubbly Plank was Aberforth then Harry's thought process wouldn't have been that the barman was 'vaguely familiar'. It would have been more like - 'Why on earth is professor Grubbly-Plank serving drinks in a dodgy pub and masquerading as a man?!'
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Veritaserum - Jun 21, 2005 3:42 pm (#952 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Well, if Albus Dumbledore was the Transfiguration teacher, then perhaps his brother is skilled at this also.
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Amilia Smith - Jun 21, 2005 6:15 pm (#953 of 1448)
Thomas: As I understand it, Leaky and Mugglenet will not be interviewing JKR until July 16th. Katie Couric has already interviewed her, but her interview will not be airing until after Harry Potter Day (the 18th, I think).
Mills.
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KWeldon - Jun 21, 2005 7:21 pm (#954 of 1448)
Would anyone be interested in, say, 48 hrs (or whenever) before the release, that we all just post one word on this thread: who we think the HbP is going to be?
If this is problematic in the eyes of the mods, I certainly understand. I just think it would be more informative than a vote thread, where you can only tell how many voted for so-and-so, not WHO voted for so-and-so, and then let's see who's right!
Just a suggestion....
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 22, 2005 6:50 am (#955 of 1448)
I like it. I wondered why that hasn't been a vote question.I like the idea of being able to see who voted for who.That way the people who are right(if any)can take a bow.
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Thomas Phifer - Jun 22, 2005 8:55 am (#956 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jun 22, 2005 9:03 am
Thank You Amilia Smith. Yes thats a fun idea. Im not sure about the mods. But I'm sure we can figure out a way. Something Like:
Names____________Abreviation
Doby_________________D
Dumbledore___________DD
Dursley______________Du
and so on....
something like that except it will have all the names of the possible HBP's and their abreviations. We all choose one and type in the abreviation. But I think this will require a new thread.
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Liz Mann - Jun 22, 2005 4:03 pm (#957 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think this can be done in a poll, it's just that we need to use the poll's discussion thread as well. We cast our vote, and then say as usual who we voted for on the discussion.
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KWeldon - Jun 22, 2005 4:11 pm (#958 of 1448)
I don't think it's necessary to use abbreviations; just type in the name and let everyone see the list for themselves. I wasn't necessarily envisioning a tally at the end, either.
Liz, I sure do miss your poll thread.
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Thomas Phifer - Jun 23, 2005 8:58 am (#959 of 1448)
I am in the IT field.
Edited by Jun 23, 2005 8:58 am
Sounds good
Griffindora and lizzman isnt Aberforth DD's brother who is a little on the strange side and doesnt he work at the Pigs Head? - - - - - - - - - -
Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 9:50 am (#960 of 1448)
HI everyone! I am new to this so if I ask something that has already been brought up please let me know. I am rereading book four to get ready for 6. (can not wait!) In the beginning of chapter one book four... the Riddles maid finds them all dead, Mr. and Mrs Riddle and their grown up son Tom. The gardener Frank is being held for the murders. Frank said the only person he saw at the house that day was a teenage boy,dark-hair and pale. That being that in the Chamber of Secrets Voldemort says his name is Tom M. Riddle, in the diary, and when Harry is taken back and shown the past DD calls Voldemort Tom. So what is Voldemort's real name? Did I miss something? and if I did please let me know. Also Dobby can do magic with out the use of a wand. Is that common for elves? Again I am sorry if these are "already covered" questions.
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Madame Kulich - Jun 23, 2005 10:56 am (#961 of 1448)
Heather - I don't think you missed anything. Voldemort (Tom Riddle) was named after his (muggle) father, who was, of course, Tom Riddle as well. As for House Elves, JKR touched on the magic of house elves on her Web site in the FAQ I believe. They don't need wands.
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Tomoé - Jun 23, 2005 11:57 am (#962 of 1448)
Back in business
Plus, no non-human creature is permitted to carry or use a wand, as Diggory said after they found Winky with a wand at the QWC.
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Choices - Jun 23, 2005 12:37 pm (#963 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Heather (welcome) - Go back to book two when Harry meets Tom Riddle down in the Chamber of Secrets and Tom writes his name - Tom Marvolo Riddle - in the air with his wand and then scrambles the letters to reveal "I am Lord Voldemort". Tom had begun to use the name Lord Voldemort while he was still at Hogwarts as a student. He hated his "filthy Muggle father's name" and refused to use it once he began to develope his powers and his alternate persona - Lord Voldemort.
House elfs are very magical creatures and don't need wands to do magic, and they are not allowed to use wands by Wizard Law.
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 1:12 pm (#964 of 1448)
Hi there I am new to this site and not sure what has been talked about before so if I mess up something I am sorry. I do have a question...I an rereading bok four. Did Voldemort's Mom name him Tom and then his Step-brother was also named Tom?
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 1:14 pm (#965 of 1448)
Thank you for responding! In book four it said that the maid found all three of them dead. Mr and Mrs. Riddle and their grown up son Tom. And that the gradener had seen a teenager go into the house. So were both the Riddle boys named Tom?
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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jun 23, 2005 1:18 pm (#966 of 1448)
"Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking"
Mr and Mrs Riddle were Voldemorts grandparents, Tom was his father... whom young Voldie was named after.
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 4:31 pm (#967 of 1448)
Thank you! Another question... JKR was asked what DD ment when he said remember my last...about the howlers he had sent. JKR said that ment he had sent other letters to just Aunt Petunia. Do you think that Harry has to return to the Dursley's every year to protect him but also to protect Aunt Petunia? Because Voldemort needed Harry's blood to "grow". Well, what if all the rumors are true and Harry is related to Godric and Voldemort needs the blood line to kill Harry. Or he wants to take out his hate on the heirs of Godric. Maybe Harry has to return in order for both he and his Aunt to be protected. What would have DD sent to just Petunia? Just a thought. Also in book 4 Voldemort tells Wormtail "By that time my faithful servant will hae joined us." Faithful is off set in italics. Who do you think the faithful one is?
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Ruthie - Jun 23, 2005 4:56 pm (#968 of 1448)
I believe Voldemort was talking about Barty Crouch Jnr. as his faithful sevant because Barty was the only one who never lost faith in his master.
As to the howlers I'm also very curious but perhaps that conversation is best had in another thread? : )
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Love2Travel - Jun 23, 2005 5:06 pm (#969 of 1448)
Oh sorry. I am new to this whole thing.
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haymoni - Jun 23, 2005 5:10 pm (#970 of 1448)
There is a blurb on TLC - an interview with Jim Dale - it lists a spoiler. I actually had to read the article a couple of times before I caught it.
It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know but it made me feel better.
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Liz Mann - Jun 23, 2005 5:41 pm (#971 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think I must have missed something. Everyone keeps saying that J.K. has said that a character will die in book six. I have never heard her say that. On her FAQ, she has the question "Are you going to kill anymore characters?" and she answers "Yes. Sorry." But I thought she was talking about the last TWO books, not specifically book six. And people seem to have narrowed it down to ONE character in HBP that will die. When did she say that?
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Steve Newton - Jun 23, 2005 6:36 pm (#972 of 1448)
Librarian
What's bothersome about naming Barty, Jr. as the faithful one is that we saw him deny being a DE in the penseive scene.
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Ruthie - Jun 23, 2005 7:00 pm (#973 of 1448)
Love2Travel (was it Heather?) just wanted to say sorry - didn't mean to sound pushy in my other post : ) Welcome to the forum!
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pottermom34 - Jun 23, 2005 8:11 pm (#974 of 1448)
I agree liz, that's what I thought when I read that, I also don't remember anything about a main character and some have been guessing weasleys. Where is everyone getting the idea it'll be a main character. If we've missed any other quotes please indulge us.
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Ginerva Potter - Jun 23, 2005 8:39 pm (#975 of 1448)
Actually, Steve, I just reread GOF and he doesn't say he wasn't a DE. The scene is this:
Sr: "We have heard the evidence against you. The four of you stand accused of capturing an Auror - Frank Longbottom _ and subjecting him to the Cruciatus Curse, believing him to have knowledge of the present whereabouts of your exiled master, He-who-must-not-be-named-"
Jr: "Father, I didn't!" shrieked the boy. "I didn't, I swear it, Father, don't send me back to the dementors--"
Then Jr goes on to say: "Mother, stop him, Mother, I didn't do it, it wasn't me!" and "No! Mother, no! I didn't do it, I didn't do it, I didn't know! Don't send me there, don't let him!"
I have always thought that he was saying he wasn't a DE, too. But this time when I reread it, I thought maybe he was only denying his involvement so he could continue looking for Voldemort. I'm not sure who I think the most loyal servant is or who is the one who was too cowardly to return or who has left the DE forever.
Hopefully, we will find all this out in HBP!
Ginny
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 24, 2005 6:35 am (#976 of 1448)
I agree with Steve,that for Crouch Jr. to be the "faithful"one is bothersome. I still think Voldemort is referring to someone else,someone who is kept cleverly hidden.Voldemort praises his followers who would rather die than renounce him,such as Bella.I can't see Crouch jr. being thought of in this way when he so clearly denied Voldemort. Crouch Jr. kept crying "it wasn't me!"what if the "faithful" one used polyjuice to look like Crouch Jr?I think there is a chance he became a servant only after he went to Askaban and his father's disbelief in him helped to drive him that way.
Has anyone else noticed on the HBP screensaver that if you look at the boat,at the prow there looks like a face with a black pointed hat in the waters reflection? Or is it just me again?
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 7:59 am (#977 of 1448)
Ruthie~ No problem! I am learning as I go. Thank you for the welcome! (and it was Heather...I learned how to change my name)
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MickeyCee3948 - Jun 24, 2005 8:10 am (#978 of 1448)
Avatar courtesy of Gwen
Couch Jr. denied having tortured the Longbottom's. I don't believe there was anything in his denial which stated he wasn't a DE or that he was rejecting Voldemort. He was only stating that of these charges he was not guilty. If I am off base please let me know but that is how I perceive the scene and later events. I still think he was the faithful one Voldemort was talking about.
Mickey
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Chemyst - Jun 24, 2005 8:27 am (#979 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Yes, Mickey, that is the way I read it– that Barty Jr. was a DE, but did not torture the Longbottoms.
He'd also begged not to be sent back to the dementors; which means he had been there before. Winky could probably tell us an interesting story. Junior seems to act a lot like a rebellious PK.(preacher's kid)
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 24, 2005 8:28 am (#980 of 1448)
Hi,
I would agree that Barty, Jr., is The Faithful Follower, for the following reasons.
1. He never denied being a follower of Voldemort's, i.e. a Deatheater.
2. He did deny torturing the Longbottoms and went to Azkaban for a crime he did not commit.
3. Although his father connived to get his son out of Azkaban, he held him a prisoner by using the Imperious Curse and clothign him in an Invisibility Cloak.
4. In spite of Barty Sr's and Winky's efforts, Barty Jr. stole and wand and immediately made the Dark Mark, summoning other Death Eaters to him.
5. Immediately upon his release by Voldemort and Peter Pettigrew, Barty Jr., volunteered to enslave Moody, impersonate him as a Hogwart's teacher and ensure that Harry would arrive at the graveyard at the end of the Tri-Wizard Tournament.
6. When Voldemort's plan failed, Barty, Jr., bought Harry to his office, declaring that he alone had been faithful to Voldemort, his emnity towards all Death Eaters who had denied Voldemort, his station as Voklemort's most faithful servant.
7. Barty, Jr, then attempted to murder Harry, declaring that by doing so, he would assure his position as Voldemort's most faithful servant.
To my mind, there is no doubt whatsoever that Barty Crouch, Junior, was indeed Lord Voldemort's most faithful servant.
Thanks,
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 24, 2005 8:31 am (#981 of 1448)
You are right Mickey.I worded it wrong.I meant that he denied being involved which is not the same as denying Voldemort, but still..I believe that it is someone else. Come on HBP.
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Choices - Jun 24, 2005 9:53 am (#982 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Joanne - 3. Although his father connived to get his son out of Azkaban, he held him a prisoner by using the Imperious Curse and clothign him in an Invisibility Cloak.
Actually this was all his Mother's doing - his father just humored her because she was ill and wanted her son out of Azkaban.
Joanne - 4. In spite of Barty Sr's and Winky's efforts, Barty Jr. stole and wand and immediately made the Dark Mark, summoning other Death Eaters to him.
I don't think he conjured the Dark Mark to summon DE's to him - I think he did it to glorify Voldemort and let the people know he was still active. The DE's fled when they saw the Dark Mark, so it didn't make them go to Barty, Jr. They had no clue who had conjured it.
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GryffEndora - Jun 24, 2005 9:59 am (#983 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
The more I think about Barty Crouch Jr., and the more arguments I read, the more I am convinced that Jr. is a cleverly placed fall-guy. JKR has led us to believe that the faithful servant has been dealt with and is no longer a threat so we will stop looking for him. I am strongly inclined to believe that the faithful servant is still out there. Jr may have joined LV's side but we have no evidence he ever had the mark.
Then there is the strange reference in the circle of Death Eaters that RPS pointed out to me. When LV looks at a space large enough for 2 people and says the Lestrange's should stand here, but they were faithful, they went to Azkaban rather than denounce me. All fine and good until you remember that there were 3 Lestrange's in Azkaban. How could 3 fit in place of 2 unless 1 was already free. Go back and look at Rabastan's blank stare in the Pensive and think about other blank stares (Marietta's in DD's office for example). Maybe that wasn't Rabastan after all, maybe it was someone transfigured to look like him with a modified memory.
Constant Vigilance!!!
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Choices - Jun 24, 2005 10:08 am (#984 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
Oh, interesting ideas GryffEndora - more fuel for the fires that are burning in my brain. LOL
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 10:44 am (#985 of 1448)
How very intersting! I would agree that Barty JR didn't summon the DE's to him he did it as a tribute to LV. I must admit that I am leaning to the side that Barty JR is the Faithful one. So then who is the one to cowardly to return? (as Ginerva put in her post) And the one who has left forever? Also anyone know what the core of Ron's wand is?
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Harry-ette - Jun 24, 2005 10:45 am (#986 of 1448)
Good news for UK HP fans - Amazon have just emiled me to say they are reducing the price of HBP to £8.99, which can only be a good thing!
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Steve Newton - Jun 24, 2005 10:54 am (#987 of 1448)
Librarian
My current speculation is that Fudge is the one who left forever.
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Denise P. - Jun 24, 2005 11:00 am (#988 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
If Fudge is the DE who left forever, wouldn't he still have the dark mark? If he had a dark mark, he would never have been protesting so strongly that LV was not coming back, the mark would have surely shown him this for a fact. I don't know, Fudge is an incompetant blowhard but I don't think he is or ever was a DE. The only way I think this could fly is if there were someway to actually remove the dark mark and somehow, I don't think that is possible short of amputation.
I think the DE who left forever is between Snape and Karkaroff.
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GryffEndora - Jun 24, 2005 11:11 am (#989 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Choices - I'm glad you like the ideas, but they came to me from Round Pink Spider. I wish I had been perceptive enough to find them myself. I hope they lead to fun at the bonfire in your brain. I know they have led to some fun thoughts for me as well!
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Madam Pince - Jun 24, 2005 11:38 am (#990 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Well, GryffEndora or Round Pink Spider or whomever, I really like the point you make about the 3 people/2 spaces thing and the blank stare of Rastaban's! I totally missed both of those things! See, this is why this is such a great place -- 300+ heads are so much better than one!
I am in the camp of those who is leaning towards the idea that Barty Jr. is not the "faithful servant." A bit too convenient, if you ask me, and it would be such a cool "gotcha!" for JKR to do. And I have long suspected that the whole "circle of Death Eaters" scene contains some clues for us -- I am always scouring it for ideas but usually come away frustrated. Just the other day I came across a scrap of paper I was using for a bookmark, and on it I had long ago doodled a little chart / diagram of the "circle" with all the names and blanks and the whole bit. Ha! No, we're not obsessed, are we?
Interesting thought about Fudge there, Steve, but I think I'm with Denise. I think Fudge is just JKR's sly nudge at poking fun at incompetent politicians. What is that quote from some movie -- aaaagh, my brain is getting old and I can't remember which it was... "I think he's just......a nincompoop. Well, he's either a nincompoop or some kind of bug."
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librarian314 - Jun 24, 2005 11:44 am (#991 of 1448)
Hey all!
If Fudge isn't a DE, than he may well have be a wizard like the elder Blacks, supporting Voldemort's ideas but not becoming an actual DE.
I think that Fudge also could have faked not knowing about the Dark Mark. He's been carefully portrayed to be a bit of a bumbler, with rose coloured glasses. He could well be acting. We're supposed to think of him as being vaguely good natured, until people start dying and then he turns on Harry. He refuses to see what others tell him and sets the wizarding world's defense against Voldemort back a year.
Fudge worries me because he was one of the first on the scene when Pettigrew blew up the street of Muggles. I think he had a hand in sending Sirius to Azkaban without a proper trial. He also turned on Harry the moment he started being more of a problem than a boon. Instead of thinking about things and investigating, he jumps to conclusions.
It'll be interesting to read what becomes of Fudge in HBP. Will he be ousted as MoM early in the book? Will he bumble around for another year making a mess of things and be bounced toward the end? How will he lose his position?
I'm really glad there are only 21 days left!!!
*michelle the librarian**
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 2:06 pm (#992 of 1448)
The faithful servant was Barty Crouch Jr. On page 651 of book 4 LV says "...and one who remains my faithful servant, and who has already reenterd my service." Page 652 "He is at Hogwarts that faithful servant, and it was through his efforts that our young friend arrived here tonight."
The rest of the saying on page 651 is: "And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course...and (then the quote on the top of the posting.) So who do you all think is the coward and who has left for forever? And do you think it was Barty Jr. LV was talking about? Or someone else? I would also like to add that I love the oppertunity to hash these ideas over with you!
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Aurora Gubbins - Jun 24, 2005 2:16 pm (#993 of 1448)
Well spotted L2T!
I think the Prince is Theodore Nott. There - said it now.
Aurora xx
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 24, 2005 2:34 pm (#994 of 1448)
I think it is someone we have not met yet or they have only been mentioned in passing. My second guess is Dumbledore. LPO
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 2:45 pm (#995 of 1448)
Oh! Oh.... what do you make of this? Page 655 book 4 LV is talking to the circle of DE's telling them how he "came back" and how Wormtail had brought him Bertha Jorkins. "She told me that the triwizard Tournament would be played at Hogwarts this year. She told me that she knew of a faithful Death Eater who would be only too willing to help me, if I could only contact him. She told me many things...but the means I used to break the Memory Charm upon her were powerful,..." Ok, who is the DE she told him about? Who put the memory charm on her?
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Amilia Smith - Jun 24, 2005 2:51 pm (#996 of 1448)
I thought it was Crouch Jr. again. Bertha went to see Crouch Sr. at home for some reason. He wasn't home, but she heard voices. On investigation, she discovered Winky talking to Crouch Jr. Crouch Sr. came home, found that Bertha had discovered his career ruining secret, and modified her memory.
I think this information is from the Crouch Jr. tells all via Veritaserum scene at the end of the book, which I don't have with me currently, so I can't give you exact quotes.
Mills.
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Love2Travel - Jun 24, 2005 3:12 pm (#997 of 1448)
Thank you for pointing that out! Can anyone think where it is mentioned what Ron's wand core is? I wonder because JKR has told us what Harry and Hermiones are but I have not found out what Ron's is. Olviander's wands have three cores. Just a bunny trail I am off on.
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Amilia Smith - Jun 24, 2005 3:17 pm (#998 of 1448)
Unicorn tail hair.
On the train ride in SS, Ron laments that his secondhand wand is so worn out and beat up that the unicorn hair is almost poking through.
Then, after dealing with the snapped wand all through CoS, he shows off his new wand to Harry in Diagon Alley at the first part of PoA. I don't remember the dimensions, but it was once again unicorn hair in the core.
Mills.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 24, 2005 3:34 pm (#999 of 1448)
Hi,
Choices, I was thinking of the following passages when I made my comments:
1. Barty's father did indeed get his son out of Azkaban:
GoF, Scholastic, page 684: '"My father smuggled me out, disguised as my mother...."' page 685: '"How did your father subdue you? said Dumbledore. "The Imperious Curse," Crouch said. "I was under my father's control. I was forced to wear an Invisibility Cloak day and night. I was always with the house-elf...."'
2. With regard to the Dark Mark, I contend that Barty, Jr., was trying to get the attention of his fellow DEs, admonish them and attempt to escape:
GoF, Scholastic, page 686-7: ' "... We heard the Death Eaters. The ones who had never been to Azkaban. The ones who had never suffered for my master. They had turned their backs on him. They were not enslaved, as I was. They were free to seek him, but they did not. They were merely making sport of Muggles.... I was angry. I had the wand. I wanted to attack them for their disloyalty to my master.... I wanted to show those Death Eaters what loyalty to the Dark Lord meant, and to punish them for their lack of it. I used the stolen wand to cast the Dark Mark into the sky."'
3. As for Barty Crouch, Jr., being the faithful servant:
Ibid.page 688: '"My master conceived a plan, based upon the information Bertha ahd given him. He needed me. He arrived at our house near midnight..." "He asked me whther I wsa ready to risk everything for him. I was ready. It was my dream, my greatest ambition, to serve him, to prove myself to him. He told me he needed to place a faithful servant at Hogwarts. A servant who would guide Harry Potter through the Triwizard Tournament without appearing to do so. A servant who would watch over Harry Potter. Ensure he reached the Triwizard Cup. Turn the cup into a Portkey, which would take the first person who touched it to my master." "You needed Alastor Moody", said Dumbledore.... "Wormtail and I did it. We had prepared Polyjuice Potion beforehand. We journeyed to his house. Moody put up a struggle. There was a commotion. We managed to subdue him hust in time. Force him into a comparment of his own magical trunk. Took some of his hair and added it to the potion. I drank it; I became Moody's double. I took his leg and his eye. I was ready to face Arthur Weasley when he arrived to sort out the Muggles ..."'
Gryffindora, I find no problem with the three Lestranges.
OotP, Scholastic, Pge 788: 'Harry Put his ear close to the door to listen and heard Lucius Malfoy roar: "Leave Nott, leave him, I say, the Dark Lord will not care for Nott's injuries as much as losing the prophecy - Jugson, come back here, we need to organize! We'll split into pairs and search, and don't forget, be gentle with Potter until we've got the prophecy, you can kill the others if necessary - Bellatrix, Rudolphus, you take the left, Crabbe, Rabastan, go right -Jugson, Dolohov, the door straight ahead-MacNair and Avery through here - Rookwood, over there - Mulciber, come with me!"
They all seem ready, willing and able to do their bit for Lord Voldemort.
Thanks,
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Madam Pince - Jun 24, 2005 3:42 pm (#1000 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Love2Travel, the Lexicon itself (not the Lexicon Forum) has a section on Wands (I think it's in the "Magic and Magical Theory" section)which describes all the wands we have any information about and what they're made of, etc. That may be helpful to your idea you're brewing...
Joanne, I think what GryffEndora was speculating was that perhaps Rastaban (the real one) was never really sent to Azkaban at all. The "circle of DEs" scene was at the end of GoF -- the scene you're quoting where all the names are mentioned is at the end of OoP, after they've broken out of Azkaban. In the "circle of DEs" scene, perhaps Voldy was saying "the LeStranges" (who could fit into the two empty spots) meaning Bellatrix and Rudolphus, who at that time were imprisoned in Azkaban, but he didn't refer to the third LeStrange, Rastaban, because Voldy was aware that the "real" Rastaban was standing right there already filling one of the spots in the circle (perhaps one of the silent hooded ones or whatever) because the "Rastaban" that was in Azkaban wasn't really Rastaban, but rather somebody who'd been transfigured or Polyjuiced or whatever to appear to be Rastaban.
At least, that's what I thought GryffEndora meant. Did I get it right? Now my head hurts....
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Norbert not a common welsh green - Jun 24, 2005 3:55 pm (#1001 of 1448)
I belive the evidence that Crouch Jr. is the faithful one is too strong to argue against. The only indication he might not be faithful is when he shouts at his father after his trial.(I Forget the quote, but I'm sure someone else will find it.). Madam pince I also understood that in relation to Raspadan.
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GryffEndora - Jun 24, 2005 5:24 pm (#1002 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Madam Pince you are correct. Round Pink Spider has said, and I am starting to think she may just be right, that Rabastan Lestrange was never sent to Azkaban.
When you look at the description in GoF: "There was a thickset man who stared blankly up a Crouch; a thinner and more nervous-looking man, whose eyes were darting around the crowd; a woman with thick, shining dark hair and heavily hooded eyes, who was sitting in the chained chair as though it were a throne; and a boy in his late teens, who looked nothing short of petrified."
We know the teenage boy is Crouch Jr and the woman is Bellatrix. The other 2 men are Rabastan and Rodolphus Lestrange. Assuming that they sat Rodolphus by his wife, the man with the blank stare would be Rabastan, or someone under a memory charm disguised as Rabastan, so the real Rabastan could walk free.
Once the prisoners escaped Azkaban they would subdue or kill the fake Rabastan and join the real Rabastan in the DE's circle. When Kingsley modifies Marietta's memory in DD's office her eyes, which are the only part of her face visible, were described as oddly blank.
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Sticky Glue - Jun 24, 2005 5:27 pm (#1003 of 1448)
I have always thought that Crouch Jr was the faithful one, Karkaroff was to cowardly to return, ....he will pay. And Snape the third one who LV beleives has left his service for ever .... he will be killed, of course. Snape would have had to do some fast talking, and cear his mind so it couldn't be read by LV, when he went back.
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Steve Newton - Jun 24, 2005 6:15 pm (#1004 of 1448)
Librarian
I'm sure that Barty, Jr. thought that he was the faithful servant but all of the rest seems ambiguous.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 24, 2005 6:35 pm (#1005 of 1448)
Very well put GryffEndora.I'd never heard of RPS idea about Rabastan.It sounds very good to me.When Crouch Jr. was telling his story he said Bertha told Voldemort of "a faithful" servant that would be only too willing to help him.I dont think Crouch Jr. would be considered any more faithful than Wormtail. I'd like to add that each DE might consider himself the most faithful but I think Voldemort only knows who that most faithful servant is.
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Doris Crockford - Jun 24, 2005 7:14 pm (#1006 of 1448)
Liz, awhile ago you and Pottermom asked about the major character dying in HBP. I agree that we haven't heard from JKR that another major character will die in HBP, Jim Dale, who has read the book, said that a major caracter does die. And I'm willing to trust him since he's read the book and seems to think that it's general knowledge.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 25, 2005 5:24 am (#1007 of 1448)
Hi,
Madame Pince, my thought was that Bella, Rudolphus Rastaban were in Azkaban together. Surely, Rudoplphus would have recognized his own brother.
Further, Bella challenged the entire WW in their names, declaring that they were all proud to go to prison and await the second coming of the Dark Lord.
Third, when Voldemort summoned his Death Eaters, neither Bella, Rudolphus nor Rastaban Apperated to join him. What constrained Rastaban, if not the bars of Azkaban?
Finally, if Rastaban weren't in Azkaban, then he surely would not have been welcomed back by the rest of the Death Eaters, nor been a part of the group of them that attempted to trap Harry to gain the Prophecy.
Thanks,
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GryffEndora - Jun 25, 2005 6:25 am (#1008 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Doris Crockford, a spoiler warning or white text would have been nice! Please remember not everyone wants to know this information before reading the book. Thanks.
*edit:
Joanne R Reid: LV did not say every name of every DE in the circle. We don't know whether or not Rabastan was standing there accepted by his master. If someone were disguised as Rabastan and imprisoned in Azkaban in his place then I think Bella and Rodolphus would know and be willing to cover for him so he could continue LVs work outside of Azkaban. They could have even helped to disguise him and the imposter. They were together when they were captured. Someone could have come upon them, alerted the authorities and then have become over powered by the group who switched the intruder with Rabastan then went to Azkaban secure in the knowledge that one faithful servant still walked free to help their master. Yes this is a theory but I think it is possible.
*edit 2: I think the only one who determines who is welcomed back is LV . If he welcomed Rabastan then the DEs would have no choice but to do the same.
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Madam Pince - Jun 25, 2005 8:52 am (#1009 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I'm sorry Joanne, I didn't do a good job of clarifying what I meant -- GryffEndora has it right above. Yes, I was thinking that the theory assumes that the DEs intentionally transfigured (or whatever) Rabastan in order to hide him and allow the "real" guy to be free to continue to help Voldy. They all knew what what going on. And we aren't entirely sure of who all apparated to Voldy, because he didn't call all of them by name.
Anyway, it's just a theory. Only 20 more days until we know more!
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Kevin Corbett - Jun 26, 2005 8:27 am (#1010 of 1448)
I'm not quite sure if the whole "faithful servant" debate is still going, but I'd just like to put in my two cents: even if Crouch Jr. denied being a Death Eater, that doesn't quite mean that he betrayed Voldemort. I think the idea of public denial of these things would actually be something REQUIRED of DE's---what good is a DE to Voldemort who, if someone asks him, "Say Bob, you aren't a Death Eater by any chance, are you?" they say, "I cannot deny my allegiance to the Dark Lord. Yes, I am a DEATH EATER mwhahahaha!" So Crouch isn't like Simon Peter if he did deny Voldie, because Voldie probably wanted him to do so in the first place.
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Netherlandic - Jun 26, 2005 8:30 am (#1011 of 1448)
Well perhaps then the HBP was sent to Azkaban instead of Rabastan? (just a joke )
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Grindylow - Jun 26, 2005 10:31 am (#1012 of 1448)
I just finished listening to OotP and in there, Bellatrix says she was his most faithful servant. Has that been mentioned?
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 27, 2005 8:06 am (#1013 of 1448)
Hi, Madame Pince,
Ah! I see. Dawn breaks on Marblehead!
But, if Rastaban was on the loose, why did he not Apperate to the graveyard? It's possible that he was there and LV did not mention him, but it sounds unlikely. If he'd been loose, what had he been doing?
The one thing we can be sure of is that he was not seeking out LV. Both LV and BCJr are clear on the roles that people took. LV discusses Quirrel's, PP's and BCJr's roles quite extensively. LV berates Lucius Malfoy et. al. for their failures to seek him out or to got to the Dark Mark when it was displayed. BCJr discusses his role and that of PP in implementing the plot.
If Rastaban had been doing something for LV, then LV would have mentioned it. If Rastaban were loose and failed to show up, LV would have mentioned it. As was, he only mentioned two as being absent: the coward (Karkaroff?) and the one who had left their number forever and who would be killed (Snape?). Note: if it were Snape that was named as the one who had left them forever, then he made one of the greatest performances in history to resume his role as a DE after LV's resurrection.
I'm not convinced that Rastaban was anywhere other than Azkaban, fulfilling his role as a faithful servant, along with his brother and sister-in-law.
Thanks,
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Madam Pince - Jun 27, 2005 2:28 pm (#1014 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
See, Joanne, that point you make about Snape being the "one who has left forever" has always bothered me too, for the exact same reason you mention. We are sort-of led to believe that Snape's task, given to him at the end of GoF and supposedly continued through OoP, is that of being a "double-agent." But if Voldemort thought Snape had "left forever" at the end of GoF, then how in the world did Snape convince him otherwise all through OoP? It's an interesting thing to ponder. Either Snape isn't the "one who has left forever," or else he isn't working as a double-agent.
Probably.
How many more days do we have to wait, again??? And please, please, please let HBP answer the above question for us!! I was so disappointed when OoP didn't exactly clarify what task it was that Dumbledore assigned to Snape at the end of GoF. Somehow, I'm afraid that HBP might not, either. It seems like it's possibly a question that won't be resolved until the "big finale."
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GryffEndora - Jun 27, 2005 2:38 pm (#1015 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Madam Pince - How many more days do we have to wait, again???
Well, since you asked and I have that handy, if filled with ever so useless information, 100 days of Harry Potter countdown on my computer . . . we have 18 days and approximately 7 hours, depending on your time zone, until HBP!!! That is less than 3 weeks!!! In fact on Friday it will be 2 weeks until the midnight release parties!!! Take heart friends the end is in sight!
I too hope we get the answer to who is the One to cowardly to return, the One who has left me forever and the Most Faithful Servant. It's fun speculating but I just want to know now! By the way, I believe LV also says that in the missing Death Eaters are 3 dead in my service. It's been pointed out to me that could be literal. For example if someone we think is dead isn't and is just hiding but doing LV's work or if Snape is a Vampire and LV thinks he is loyal would he consider him both "dead" and "in my service"?
(Another theory I get from my friend, the Round Pink Spider)
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Ginerva Potter - Jun 27, 2005 4:05 pm (#1016 of 1448)
You know, 3 dead in my service taken literally.... I never thought about it that way, but Wormtail would fit that description. Everyone in the wizarding world believes him to be dead.
I will have to think about that for a while...or maybe just for 18 days! Whooo hoooo! I can't wait any longer, I think I might burst with anticipation!
Ginny
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The giant squid - Jun 28, 2005 3:52 am (#1017 of 1448)
Hmm...you (and RPS) are right in that the phrasing seems odd. I would think he'd be more likely to say "Three that died in my service" or something like that--more past tense than present. I'll have to ponder this one a bit...
--Mike
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Chemyst - Jun 28, 2005 5:44 am (#1018 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...or something like that--more past tense than present.
Hmm... of course, Voldemort was in between life & death himself for awhile, and may have an altered idea about when dead is dead.
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Love2Travel - Jun 28, 2005 9:22 am (#1019 of 1448)
Hey Everyone! I trust you have all seen the complete book cover...***IF NOT AND YOU DON"T WANT TO PLEASE DO NOT READ***
The ring on the side of the cover (also one of the new ecards you can send) does anyone remember any references to a ring. At one time in conversation? Or in a description of someone? What do you think the ring means? I have heard the theories of King Arthur and Frodo. I can not remember any references to a ring. It is obviously something important (it madethe jacket and as we know things that Harry must deal with or are important to the book are one the cover) SO?? I can't wait to read the discussion!
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Love2Travel - Jun 28, 2005 12:50 pm (#1020 of 1448)
Another question: Have you all seen the new ecards? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] then click on the ecard. There is an ecard with a ring on it. The same ring as on the book. Any thoughts? This ring may lead us to our Half Blood Prince.
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Madam Pince - Jun 28, 2005 12:54 pm (#1021 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Hi Love2Travel! Post #749 on this very thread is where everyone first started speculating on what the picture of the ring might possibly mean -- you may want to search back to there and read what everyone thought when the artwork was first released. Good luck!
I don't recall if there were specific references to a ring in the books or not. I tend to think that this ring is going to be something new that is just introduced to us in HBP, and I'm betting it belongs to either Voldemort, or the HBP himself. (Voldy because I like the idea of the "crack" in the ring occurring when Voldy's curse on Harry backfired, and HBP because, well... just because it's called "HBP" and the ring sort of looks like a royal signet or seal or something. Weak, I know, but there you are....)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 28, 2005 3:05 pm (#1022 of 1448)
If we take Half-Blood Prince as meaning royalty then I am guessing the ring is a way for the HBP to identify himself. I agree Madam Pince I think it is something new that we have not be introduced to. LPO
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Finn BV - Jun 28, 2005 3:10 pm (#1023 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Just while we're on the topic of the cover… you have to read this. It's on the Leaky Cauldron too. The description was "Things You Can Learn about the Next HP Book by Looking at the Cover," and I thought it was going to be serious, but it's actually quite funny. Just worth the laugh.
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Choices - Jun 28, 2005 5:23 pm (#1024 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
The only rings I recall reading about were the ones on Umbridges' evil little fingers. Anybody else remember any other references to rings?
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 28, 2005 7:58 pm (#1025 of 1448)
There was the ring found in Sirius' house.It was descibed as a heavy gold ring bearing the family crest..I think.
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Jendai 3 - Jun 28, 2005 8:14 pm (#1026 of 1448)
Hi! this is my first post, (my children are forcing me, becuase I'm driving them nuts!) Can anyone else see a skeleton running diagonally from top right to bottom left on the ring?
Also, I can see two faces, a tall man with an elongated head on the left, and a short man (knight) wearing armour on the right and they are separated by a lightning bolt shape.
The skeleton's head looks like a feathered plume on the helmet, and the two faces form the ribcage of the skeleton and also the "S" crest people have been talking about.
Anyway, tell me if anyone else can see this too!!
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Reading muggle - Jun 28, 2005 9:46 pm (#1027 of 1448)
I'm not betting too much on the ring as being important. If you look at the images on the rest of the Bloomsbury book covers in the "ring location" (top of the binding), there's not much the past images reveal about the past stories.
For those of you of the scholastic world, the images are (in order): Dumbledore, Owl (Hedwig?), the snarling dog head of Sirius, another owl (Pigwidgen?), and a golden feather. Just to take the last, what would a feather have told us about OotP beforehand? Come to think of it- I still don't know how the feather fits it!
I'm not trying to let the air out of the ring conversation, but of all of the image clues we've been given, I bet the ring isn't much to the story.
but what do I know.
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Hollywand - Jun 28, 2005 10:32 pm (#1028 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Jendai3, Welcome to the Lex Forum! A number of people have seen "faces" in the signet ring, so rest assured you are not alone. If you do a dedicated search on "faces" on this thread, others' comments are sure to appear. Others have seen the two opposing faces.
Having said that, I will tell you that, as an art instructor, the tendency to see a human face in an image is very strong. When I show completely abstract images to my students, they will often find faces even though the artist had no facial imagery in the image.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 29, 2005 1:46 am (#1029 of 1448)
Reading Muggle - when Fawkes delivers a letter or a warning he leaves a feather behind.
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Tomoé - Jun 29, 2005 6:36 am (#1030 of 1448)
Back in business
The yellow feather is on the spin of OoP, there is an owl on both CoS and GoF's spins, so I suppose Bloomsbury made a screen saver with the arts of all 5 books.
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So Sirius - Jun 29, 2005 11:03 am (#1031 of 1448)
Let me preface this by saying that I don't believe JKR to use this scenario, but when I was watching VanHelsing last night, I thought about how only the werewolf could destroy the vampire. I just happened to be rereading COS and was coincidentally at the part where Hagrid answers the door with cross bow in hand. I'm not sure I remember him carrying it during the day, although I'm not denying he has, just that I don't recall an incident of it, and I was thinking about who he was expecting at night and why he was so afraid and what it all meant. I think it's about vampires and the reason I'm suggesting it on this thread is that I'm more and more ready to say that the HBP will be a vampire. I might even go further and suggest that LV is too. I'm going to reread things and see if there's an instance, other than when he was attached to Quirrel where he was out or active during the day. Anyway, I don't think LV will be the HBP obviously, but perhaps another vampire, maybe even a death eater. There must be a reason Malfoy is so pale. Maybe you have to do something 3 times to graduate to full vampire, or something.
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Reading muggle - Jun 29, 2005 11:40 am (#1032 of 1448)
Very Sirius - I agree that there's something important about Hagrid's crossbow at-the-ready. I don't think it had anything to do with the CoS main storyline. Perhaps it is related to vampires, they have certainly been mentioned in past books, so perhaps they are coming. However, I don't want the HP storyline to turn into another vampire story. There are too many of those out there.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 29, 2005 11:47 am (#1033 of 1448)
Hi, Jendai3,
Welcome to the HP Lexicon Forum. I think we're all in agreement that the ring is going to be something really important. As Hollywand has discussed, the tendency of humans to see human-like faces is innate within us. In this case, it's probably wrong.
The stone in the ring is an emblem, signet or something else that is or was important. We have speculated that it was broken ... almost shattered ... by some great force. The stone is now broken by a lightning bolt pattern that is somewhat reminiscent of Harry's scar. As to whether the two are related, we'll have to wait until HBP is published.
It is an interested experiment to try putting the two halves together to see what you get. We have done this, and it has been reported in this forum. Regardless, if we do put the two halves together, ala putting the maps of South America and Africa together, we get an object which is similar to the cross-section of the chess piece called a castle, or a column with a vee-shaped cap and pedestal, or a block letter H or something similar in shape.
However, in spite of our extensive discussions, we have not come to a consensus. Perhaps you will be able to shed some light on this dilema. Otherwise, we shall all have to wait until we've read HBP.
Thanks,
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 29, 2005 12:01 pm (#1034 of 1448)
I thought Hagrid had a crossbow ready because he knew sooner or later the MOM would come for him because of his past history. The fact that Dumbledore was there he did not use it. I thought it fit with what we found out about Hagrid. LPO
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Suspero - Jun 29, 2005 12:04 pm (#1035 of 1448)
Professor
Wonder if the stone in the ring is linked to a significant larger stone, not connected to THE "Stone of Destiny" (aka, the Stone of Scone) but something like it. We all know that Voldemort was after the Philosopher's Stone (the Sorceror's Stone) but I still wonder if this stone and ring might have been Voldemort's, and if it was it could be significant -- OR What If It Belonged to Harry's Mother?
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GryffEndora - Jun 29, 2005 12:11 pm (#1036 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I think the ring will be used to identify the Half Blood Prince. He may have to identify it to claim his title; or he may be found with it, and someone else will recognize it, and identify him as the prince because of his ownership of the ring. It just looks like a signet ring to me.
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Love2Travel - Jun 29, 2005 12:56 pm (#1037 of 1448)
I have thought for awhile now that Snape was a Vampire. On the Leaky Cauldron web site the poll question is about Snape. One of the options is that Snape is a vampire. Check it out~ I know it is a poll questions but I find it intersting that Vampires is one of the options. Also when Snape had to teach for Lupin. He told the students that they were going to study something else, he picked Vampires. (I'm sorry I can't remember the exact words...guess I have homework tonight) I also heard that the picture on the front of the ring resembles the Slytherian house shield. (Great! More homework! good thing I love these books!)
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So Sirius - Jun 29, 2005 1:11 pm (#1038 of 1448)
Ludicrous, I don't see that being the case. I can't imagine that Hagrid would shoot someone coming for him from the MOM with a cross bow. He also seemed surprised when DD and Fudge showed up. His agitation seemed reasonable that with all the occurrences happening, that his fear of something, at night, would be from something like a vampire, more so than something like the MOM showing up. As much as I like Hagrid, I also don't see him concluding that he'd be their object du jour from the occurrences. Of course, I could be totally wrong, but in my opinion, as I stated, I just don't see the scenario you pose to be the case.
Love, I went to that poll you mentioned. Thanks.
The ring, like a lot of art, is subjective. I don't see faces, personally. I see what resembles a split shield. Actually when I was watching COS the other day, and they entered DDs office, I felt as though I was looking at the ring. Something about his office made me feel that way. I think something about astronomy might come into play in the next books. Something regarding DDs large telescope.
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Betelgeuse Black - Jun 29, 2005 1:13 pm (#1039 of 1448)
On the subject of the ring,
Maybe it's the Hogwarts Headmaster's ring. It was broken or fractured in the lightning shape when Salazar Slytherin left the other 3 founders of the school.
Just a thought, Betelgeuse
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frogface - Jun 29, 2005 1:27 pm (#1040 of 1448)
I thought Hagrid was trying to protect himself from the heir of Slytherin, he may not have known that the monster was a basilisk, and so wouldn't have known the crossbow would be useless. Plus Hermoine had just been attacked so I expect he was probably feeling very shaken and wanted a weapon nearby because he felt the need to protect himself.
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Love2Travel - Jun 29, 2005 2:47 pm (#1041 of 1448)
What about Hagrid being in Knockturn Alley when he found Harry. Remember Harry asking him what he was doing there? I wonder?? Also (and again I am sorry if this has been discussed) I found it interesting that LV turned Wormtail's arm silver and Lupin?
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 30, 2005 12:48 am (#1042 of 1448)
I thought Snape taught them about werewolves, to sneakily tell them about Lupin, not vampires.
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Regan of Gong - Jun 30, 2005 2:58 am (#1043 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Well, Hagrid was having his roosters killed, maybe he was scared that since there was no more roosters he was next? It was dark times, and no-one really knows what lives in the Forbidden Forest. I think he was scared of the "horror within" the chamber coming to get him, because it must have been very close to him sometime, i.e when it was killing his roosters, it wouldn't have been very far away at all.
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Ruthie - Jun 30, 2005 3:15 am (#1044 of 1448)
I think you make a good point Regan, plus Hagrid is half giant - maybe he thought the creature would think he was even worse than a muggle-born.
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The Mad Muggle - Jun 30, 2005 5:57 am (#1045 of 1448)
I believe it was Ginny that killed the roosters, or rather Tom Riddle when he was possessing her. I think Hagrid was just on edge and had the crossbow handy for protection. He also had it when DD summoned him to the site of the Harry/Viktor/Barty struggle in GoF.
p.s. This is my very first post here, been lurking for years, though.
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Ydnam96 - Jun 30, 2005 8:18 am (#1046 of 1448)
The Mad Muggle, welcome! I believe you are correct. There is a section of the book that mentions that Ginny was disheveled with feathers on her. It has always been my understanding that Ginny was the one who killed the roosters.
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Love2Travel - Jun 30, 2005 8:31 am (#1047 of 1448)
Interesting thing in OotP. I am at the part where they are cleaning the Black house (the Order's headquarters) and one of the items they come across is a signet ring with the Black family shield on it. Sirius says it was his fathers. I wonder if the ring we see on the cover of HBP is Voldemorts with the Slytherin family shield (cause it does look like a shield with a serpant shaped as an S). Or, here is a turn, maybe it is Snapes ring...remember the other cover also shows an Advanced Potion Making book on the cover...also a link to Snape)???
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Cassiopeia - Jun 30, 2005 9:12 am (#1048 of 1448)
Interesting...although I'm a little confused - are you linking the Black family with the Snape family or were those two separate thoughts? When I re-read OotP recently, I noticed that one of the things they found while cleaning was a book entitled Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Genealogy, or rather, Sirius used it to smash a creepy crawly thing. And, it was found in the noble and most ancient house of Black... coincidence???
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Veritaserum - Jun 30, 2005 10:13 am (#1049 of 1448)
Go Jays!
So Sirius as the Half-Blood Prince? I like that idea, even though we know he is a pure blood. He is a "blood-traitor". Or am I just being partial because Sirius is my favorite?
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Cassiopeia - Jun 30, 2005 10:37 am (#1050 of 1448)
Maybe, maybe... Or what about someone else from the Black family, either living or deceased? Phineas Nigellus? I'm just making wild guesses here!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I belive the evidence that Crouch Jr. is the faithful one is too strong to argue against. The only indication he might not be faithful is when he shouts at his father after his trial.(I Forget the quote, but I'm sure someone else will find it.). Madam pince I also understood that in relation to Raspadan.
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GryffEndora - Jun 24, 2005 5:24 pm (#1002 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Madam Pince you are correct. Round Pink Spider has said, and I am starting to think she may just be right, that Rabastan Lestrange was never sent to Azkaban.
When you look at the description in GoF: "There was a thickset man who stared blankly up a Crouch; a thinner and more nervous-looking man, whose eyes were darting around the crowd; a woman with thick, shining dark hair and heavily hooded eyes, who was sitting in the chained chair as though it were a throne; and a boy in his late teens, who looked nothing short of petrified."
We know the teenage boy is Crouch Jr and the woman is Bellatrix. The other 2 men are Rabastan and Rodolphus Lestrange. Assuming that they sat Rodolphus by his wife, the man with the blank stare would be Rabastan, or someone under a memory charm disguised as Rabastan, so the real Rabastan could walk free.
Once the prisoners escaped Azkaban they would subdue or kill the fake Rabastan and join the real Rabastan in the DE's circle. When Kingsley modifies Marietta's memory in DD's office her eyes, which are the only part of her face visible, were described as oddly blank.
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Sticky Glue - Jun 24, 2005 5:27 pm (#1003 of 1448)
I have always thought that Crouch Jr was the faithful one, Karkaroff was to cowardly to return, ....he will pay. And Snape the third one who LV beleives has left his service for ever .... he will be killed, of course. Snape would have had to do some fast talking, and cear his mind so it couldn't be read by LV, when he went back.
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Steve Newton - Jun 24, 2005 6:15 pm (#1004 of 1448)
Librarian
I'm sure that Barty, Jr. thought that he was the faithful servant but all of the rest seems ambiguous.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 24, 2005 6:35 pm (#1005 of 1448)
Very well put GryffEndora.I'd never heard of RPS idea about Rabastan.It sounds very good to me.When Crouch Jr. was telling his story he said Bertha told Voldemort of "a faithful" servant that would be only too willing to help him.I dont think Crouch Jr. would be considered any more faithful than Wormtail. I'd like to add that each DE might consider himself the most faithful but I think Voldemort only knows who that most faithful servant is.
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Doris Crockford - Jun 24, 2005 7:14 pm (#1006 of 1448)
Liz, awhile ago you and Pottermom asked about the major character dying in HBP. I agree that we haven't heard from JKR that another major character will die in HBP, Jim Dale, who has read the book, said that a major caracter does die. And I'm willing to trust him since he's read the book and seems to think that it's general knowledge.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 25, 2005 5:24 am (#1007 of 1448)
Hi,
Madame Pince, my thought was that Bella, Rudolphus Rastaban were in Azkaban together. Surely, Rudoplphus would have recognized his own brother.
Further, Bella challenged the entire WW in their names, declaring that they were all proud to go to prison and await the second coming of the Dark Lord.
Third, when Voldemort summoned his Death Eaters, neither Bella, Rudolphus nor Rastaban Apperated to join him. What constrained Rastaban, if not the bars of Azkaban?
Finally, if Rastaban weren't in Azkaban, then he surely would not have been welcomed back by the rest of the Death Eaters, nor been a part of the group of them that attempted to trap Harry to gain the Prophecy.
Thanks,
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GryffEndora - Jun 25, 2005 6:25 am (#1008 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Doris Crockford, a spoiler warning or white text would have been nice! Please remember not everyone wants to know this information before reading the book. Thanks.
*edit:
Joanne R Reid: LV did not say every name of every DE in the circle. We don't know whether or not Rabastan was standing there accepted by his master. If someone were disguised as Rabastan and imprisoned in Azkaban in his place then I think Bella and Rodolphus would know and be willing to cover for him so he could continue LVs work outside of Azkaban. They could have even helped to disguise him and the imposter. They were together when they were captured. Someone could have come upon them, alerted the authorities and then have become over powered by the group who switched the intruder with Rabastan then went to Azkaban secure in the knowledge that one faithful servant still walked free to help their master. Yes this is a theory but I think it is possible.
*edit 2: I think the only one who determines who is welcomed back is LV . If he welcomed Rabastan then the DEs would have no choice but to do the same.
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Madam Pince - Jun 25, 2005 8:52 am (#1009 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I'm sorry Joanne, I didn't do a good job of clarifying what I meant -- GryffEndora has it right above. Yes, I was thinking that the theory assumes that the DEs intentionally transfigured (or whatever) Rabastan in order to hide him and allow the "real" guy to be free to continue to help Voldy. They all knew what what going on. And we aren't entirely sure of who all apparated to Voldy, because he didn't call all of them by name.
Anyway, it's just a theory. Only 20 more days until we know more!
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Kevin Corbett - Jun 26, 2005 8:27 am (#1010 of 1448)
I'm not quite sure if the whole "faithful servant" debate is still going, but I'd just like to put in my two cents: even if Crouch Jr. denied being a Death Eater, that doesn't quite mean that he betrayed Voldemort. I think the idea of public denial of these things would actually be something REQUIRED of DE's---what good is a DE to Voldemort who, if someone asks him, "Say Bob, you aren't a Death Eater by any chance, are you?" they say, "I cannot deny my allegiance to the Dark Lord. Yes, I am a DEATH EATER mwhahahaha!" So Crouch isn't like Simon Peter if he did deny Voldie, because Voldie probably wanted him to do so in the first place.
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Netherlandic - Jun 26, 2005 8:30 am (#1011 of 1448)
Well perhaps then the HBP was sent to Azkaban instead of Rabastan? (just a joke )
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Grindylow - Jun 26, 2005 10:31 am (#1012 of 1448)
I just finished listening to OotP and in there, Bellatrix says she was his most faithful servant. Has that been mentioned?
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 27, 2005 8:06 am (#1013 of 1448)
Hi, Madame Pince,
Ah! I see. Dawn breaks on Marblehead!
But, if Rastaban was on the loose, why did he not Apperate to the graveyard? It's possible that he was there and LV did not mention him, but it sounds unlikely. If he'd been loose, what had he been doing?
The one thing we can be sure of is that he was not seeking out LV. Both LV and BCJr are clear on the roles that people took. LV discusses Quirrel's, PP's and BCJr's roles quite extensively. LV berates Lucius Malfoy et. al. for their failures to seek him out or to got to the Dark Mark when it was displayed. BCJr discusses his role and that of PP in implementing the plot.
If Rastaban had been doing something for LV, then LV would have mentioned it. If Rastaban were loose and failed to show up, LV would have mentioned it. As was, he only mentioned two as being absent: the coward (Karkaroff?) and the one who had left their number forever and who would be killed (Snape?). Note: if it were Snape that was named as the one who had left them forever, then he made one of the greatest performances in history to resume his role as a DE after LV's resurrection.
I'm not convinced that Rastaban was anywhere other than Azkaban, fulfilling his role as a faithful servant, along with his brother and sister-in-law.
Thanks,
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Madam Pince - Jun 27, 2005 2:28 pm (#1014 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
See, Joanne, that point you make about Snape being the "one who has left forever" has always bothered me too, for the exact same reason you mention. We are sort-of led to believe that Snape's task, given to him at the end of GoF and supposedly continued through OoP, is that of being a "double-agent." But if Voldemort thought Snape had "left forever" at the end of GoF, then how in the world did Snape convince him otherwise all through OoP? It's an interesting thing to ponder. Either Snape isn't the "one who has left forever," or else he isn't working as a double-agent.
Probably.
How many more days do we have to wait, again??? And please, please, please let HBP answer the above question for us!! I was so disappointed when OoP didn't exactly clarify what task it was that Dumbledore assigned to Snape at the end of GoF. Somehow, I'm afraid that HBP might not, either. It seems like it's possibly a question that won't be resolved until the "big finale."
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GryffEndora - Jun 27, 2005 2:38 pm (#1015 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Madam Pince - How many more days do we have to wait, again???
Well, since you asked and I have that handy, if filled with ever so useless information, 100 days of Harry Potter countdown on my computer . . . we have 18 days and approximately 7 hours, depending on your time zone, until HBP!!! That is less than 3 weeks!!! In fact on Friday it will be 2 weeks until the midnight release parties!!! Take heart friends the end is in sight!
I too hope we get the answer to who is the One to cowardly to return, the One who has left me forever and the Most Faithful Servant. It's fun speculating but I just want to know now! By the way, I believe LV also says that in the missing Death Eaters are 3 dead in my service. It's been pointed out to me that could be literal. For example if someone we think is dead isn't and is just hiding but doing LV's work or if Snape is a Vampire and LV thinks he is loyal would he consider him both "dead" and "in my service"?
(Another theory I get from my friend, the Round Pink Spider)
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Ginerva Potter - Jun 27, 2005 4:05 pm (#1016 of 1448)
You know, 3 dead in my service taken literally.... I never thought about it that way, but Wormtail would fit that description. Everyone in the wizarding world believes him to be dead.
I will have to think about that for a while...or maybe just for 18 days! Whooo hoooo! I can't wait any longer, I think I might burst with anticipation!
Ginny
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The giant squid - Jun 28, 2005 3:52 am (#1017 of 1448)
Hmm...you (and RPS) are right in that the phrasing seems odd. I would think he'd be more likely to say "Three that died in my service" or something like that--more past tense than present. I'll have to ponder this one a bit...
--Mike
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Chemyst - Jun 28, 2005 5:44 am (#1018 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
...or something like that--more past tense than present.
Hmm... of course, Voldemort was in between life & death himself for awhile, and may have an altered idea about when dead is dead.
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Love2Travel - Jun 28, 2005 9:22 am (#1019 of 1448)
Hey Everyone! I trust you have all seen the complete book cover...***IF NOT AND YOU DON"T WANT TO PLEASE DO NOT READ***
The ring on the side of the cover (also one of the new ecards you can send) does anyone remember any references to a ring. At one time in conversation? Or in a description of someone? What do you think the ring means? I have heard the theories of King Arthur and Frodo. I can not remember any references to a ring. It is obviously something important (it madethe jacket and as we know things that Harry must deal with or are important to the book are one the cover) SO?? I can't wait to read the discussion!
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Love2Travel - Jun 28, 2005 12:50 pm (#1020 of 1448)
Another question: Have you all seen the new ecards? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] then click on the ecard. There is an ecard with a ring on it. The same ring as on the book. Any thoughts? This ring may lead us to our Half Blood Prince.
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Madam Pince - Jun 28, 2005 12:54 pm (#1021 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Hi Love2Travel! Post #749 on this very thread is where everyone first started speculating on what the picture of the ring might possibly mean -- you may want to search back to there and read what everyone thought when the artwork was first released. Good luck!
I don't recall if there were specific references to a ring in the books or not. I tend to think that this ring is going to be something new that is just introduced to us in HBP, and I'm betting it belongs to either Voldemort, or the HBP himself. (Voldy because I like the idea of the "crack" in the ring occurring when Voldy's curse on Harry backfired, and HBP because, well... just because it's called "HBP" and the ring sort of looks like a royal signet or seal or something. Weak, I know, but there you are....)
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 28, 2005 3:05 pm (#1022 of 1448)
If we take Half-Blood Prince as meaning royalty then I am guessing the ring is a way for the HBP to identify himself. I agree Madam Pince I think it is something new that we have not be introduced to. LPO
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Finn BV - Jun 28, 2005 3:10 pm (#1023 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Just while we're on the topic of the cover… you have to read this. It's on the Leaky Cauldron too. The description was "Things You Can Learn about the Next HP Book by Looking at the Cover," and I thought it was going to be serious, but it's actually quite funny. Just worth the laugh.
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Choices - Jun 28, 2005 5:23 pm (#1024 of 1448)
*Completely Obsessed With Harry Potter*
The only rings I recall reading about were the ones on Umbridges' evil little fingers. Anybody else remember any other references to rings?
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Madame Pomfrey - Jun 28, 2005 7:58 pm (#1025 of 1448)
There was the ring found in Sirius' house.It was descibed as a heavy gold ring bearing the family crest..I think.
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Jendai 3 - Jun 28, 2005 8:14 pm (#1026 of 1448)
Hi! this is my first post, (my children are forcing me, becuase I'm driving them nuts!) Can anyone else see a skeleton running diagonally from top right to bottom left on the ring?
Also, I can see two faces, a tall man with an elongated head on the left, and a short man (knight) wearing armour on the right and they are separated by a lightning bolt shape.
The skeleton's head looks like a feathered plume on the helmet, and the two faces form the ribcage of the skeleton and also the "S" crest people have been talking about.
Anyway, tell me if anyone else can see this too!!
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Reading muggle - Jun 28, 2005 9:46 pm (#1027 of 1448)
I'm not betting too much on the ring as being important. If you look at the images on the rest of the Bloomsbury book covers in the "ring location" (top of the binding), there's not much the past images reveal about the past stories.
For those of you of the scholastic world, the images are (in order): Dumbledore, Owl (Hedwig?), the snarling dog head of Sirius, another owl (Pigwidgen?), and a golden feather. Just to take the last, what would a feather have told us about OotP beforehand? Come to think of it- I still don't know how the feather fits it!
I'm not trying to let the air out of the ring conversation, but of all of the image clues we've been given, I bet the ring isn't much to the story.
but what do I know.
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Hollywand - Jun 28, 2005 10:32 pm (#1028 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Jendai3, Welcome to the Lex Forum! A number of people have seen "faces" in the signet ring, so rest assured you are not alone. If you do a dedicated search on "faces" on this thread, others' comments are sure to appear. Others have seen the two opposing faces.
Having said that, I will tell you that, as an art instructor, the tendency to see a human face in an image is very strong. When I show completely abstract images to my students, they will often find faces even though the artist had no facial imagery in the image.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 29, 2005 1:46 am (#1029 of 1448)
Reading Muggle - when Fawkes delivers a letter or a warning he leaves a feather behind.
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Tomoé - Jun 29, 2005 6:36 am (#1030 of 1448)
Back in business
The yellow feather is on the spin of OoP, there is an owl on both CoS and GoF's spins, so I suppose Bloomsbury made a screen saver with the arts of all 5 books.
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So Sirius - Jun 29, 2005 11:03 am (#1031 of 1448)
Let me preface this by saying that I don't believe JKR to use this scenario, but when I was watching VanHelsing last night, I thought about how only the werewolf could destroy the vampire. I just happened to be rereading COS and was coincidentally at the part where Hagrid answers the door with cross bow in hand. I'm not sure I remember him carrying it during the day, although I'm not denying he has, just that I don't recall an incident of it, and I was thinking about who he was expecting at night and why he was so afraid and what it all meant. I think it's about vampires and the reason I'm suggesting it on this thread is that I'm more and more ready to say that the HBP will be a vampire. I might even go further and suggest that LV is too. I'm going to reread things and see if there's an instance, other than when he was attached to Quirrel where he was out or active during the day. Anyway, I don't think LV will be the HBP obviously, but perhaps another vampire, maybe even a death eater. There must be a reason Malfoy is so pale. Maybe you have to do something 3 times to graduate to full vampire, or something.
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Reading muggle - Jun 29, 2005 11:40 am (#1032 of 1448)
Very Sirius - I agree that there's something important about Hagrid's crossbow at-the-ready. I don't think it had anything to do with the CoS main storyline. Perhaps it is related to vampires, they have certainly been mentioned in past books, so perhaps they are coming. However, I don't want the HP storyline to turn into another vampire story. There are too many of those out there.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jun 29, 2005 11:47 am (#1033 of 1448)
Hi, Jendai3,
Welcome to the HP Lexicon Forum. I think we're all in agreement that the ring is going to be something really important. As Hollywand has discussed, the tendency of humans to see human-like faces is innate within us. In this case, it's probably wrong.
The stone in the ring is an emblem, signet or something else that is or was important. We have speculated that it was broken ... almost shattered ... by some great force. The stone is now broken by a lightning bolt pattern that is somewhat reminiscent of Harry's scar. As to whether the two are related, we'll have to wait until HBP is published.
It is an interested experiment to try putting the two halves together to see what you get. We have done this, and it has been reported in this forum. Regardless, if we do put the two halves together, ala putting the maps of South America and Africa together, we get an object which is similar to the cross-section of the chess piece called a castle, or a column with a vee-shaped cap and pedestal, or a block letter H or something similar in shape.
However, in spite of our extensive discussions, we have not come to a consensus. Perhaps you will be able to shed some light on this dilema. Otherwise, we shall all have to wait until we've read HBP.
Thanks,
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jun 29, 2005 12:01 pm (#1034 of 1448)
I thought Hagrid had a crossbow ready because he knew sooner or later the MOM would come for him because of his past history. The fact that Dumbledore was there he did not use it. I thought it fit with what we found out about Hagrid. LPO
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Suspero - Jun 29, 2005 12:04 pm (#1035 of 1448)
Professor
Wonder if the stone in the ring is linked to a significant larger stone, not connected to THE "Stone of Destiny" (aka, the Stone of Scone) but something like it. We all know that Voldemort was after the Philosopher's Stone (the Sorceror's Stone) but I still wonder if this stone and ring might have been Voldemort's, and if it was it could be significant -- OR What If It Belonged to Harry's Mother?
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GryffEndora - Jun 29, 2005 12:11 pm (#1036 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I think the ring will be used to identify the Half Blood Prince. He may have to identify it to claim his title; or he may be found with it, and someone else will recognize it, and identify him as the prince because of his ownership of the ring. It just looks like a signet ring to me.
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Love2Travel - Jun 29, 2005 12:56 pm (#1037 of 1448)
I have thought for awhile now that Snape was a Vampire. On the Leaky Cauldron web site the poll question is about Snape. One of the options is that Snape is a vampire. Check it out~ I know it is a poll questions but I find it intersting that Vampires is one of the options. Also when Snape had to teach for Lupin. He told the students that they were going to study something else, he picked Vampires. (I'm sorry I can't remember the exact words...guess I have homework tonight) I also heard that the picture on the front of the ring resembles the Slytherian house shield. (Great! More homework! good thing I love these books!)
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So Sirius - Jun 29, 2005 1:11 pm (#1038 of 1448)
Ludicrous, I don't see that being the case. I can't imagine that Hagrid would shoot someone coming for him from the MOM with a cross bow. He also seemed surprised when DD and Fudge showed up. His agitation seemed reasonable that with all the occurrences happening, that his fear of something, at night, would be from something like a vampire, more so than something like the MOM showing up. As much as I like Hagrid, I also don't see him concluding that he'd be their object du jour from the occurrences. Of course, I could be totally wrong, but in my opinion, as I stated, I just don't see the scenario you pose to be the case.
Love, I went to that poll you mentioned. Thanks.
The ring, like a lot of art, is subjective. I don't see faces, personally. I see what resembles a split shield. Actually when I was watching COS the other day, and they entered DDs office, I felt as though I was looking at the ring. Something about his office made me feel that way. I think something about astronomy might come into play in the next books. Something regarding DDs large telescope.
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Betelgeuse Black - Jun 29, 2005 1:13 pm (#1039 of 1448)
On the subject of the ring,
Maybe it's the Hogwarts Headmaster's ring. It was broken or fractured in the lightning shape when Salazar Slytherin left the other 3 founders of the school.
Just a thought, Betelgeuse
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frogface - Jun 29, 2005 1:27 pm (#1040 of 1448)
I thought Hagrid was trying to protect himself from the heir of Slytherin, he may not have known that the monster was a basilisk, and so wouldn't have known the crossbow would be useless. Plus Hermoine had just been attacked so I expect he was probably feeling very shaken and wanted a weapon nearby because he felt the need to protect himself.
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Love2Travel - Jun 29, 2005 2:47 pm (#1041 of 1448)
What about Hagrid being in Knockturn Alley when he found Harry. Remember Harry asking him what he was doing there? I wonder?? Also (and again I am sorry if this has been discussed) I found it interesting that LV turned Wormtail's arm silver and Lupin?
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jun 30, 2005 12:48 am (#1042 of 1448)
I thought Snape taught them about werewolves, to sneakily tell them about Lupin, not vampires.
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Regan of Gong - Jun 30, 2005 2:58 am (#1043 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Well, Hagrid was having his roosters killed, maybe he was scared that since there was no more roosters he was next? It was dark times, and no-one really knows what lives in the Forbidden Forest. I think he was scared of the "horror within" the chamber coming to get him, because it must have been very close to him sometime, i.e when it was killing his roosters, it wouldn't have been very far away at all.
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Ruthie - Jun 30, 2005 3:15 am (#1044 of 1448)
I think you make a good point Regan, plus Hagrid is half giant - maybe he thought the creature would think he was even worse than a muggle-born.
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The Mad Muggle - Jun 30, 2005 5:57 am (#1045 of 1448)
I believe it was Ginny that killed the roosters, or rather Tom Riddle when he was possessing her. I think Hagrid was just on edge and had the crossbow handy for protection. He also had it when DD summoned him to the site of the Harry/Viktor/Barty struggle in GoF.
p.s. This is my very first post here, been lurking for years, though.
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Ydnam96 - Jun 30, 2005 8:18 am (#1046 of 1448)
The Mad Muggle, welcome! I believe you are correct. There is a section of the book that mentions that Ginny was disheveled with feathers on her. It has always been my understanding that Ginny was the one who killed the roosters.
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Love2Travel - Jun 30, 2005 8:31 am (#1047 of 1448)
Interesting thing in OotP. I am at the part where they are cleaning the Black house (the Order's headquarters) and one of the items they come across is a signet ring with the Black family shield on it. Sirius says it was his fathers. I wonder if the ring we see on the cover of HBP is Voldemorts with the Slytherin family shield (cause it does look like a shield with a serpant shaped as an S). Or, here is a turn, maybe it is Snapes ring...remember the other cover also shows an Advanced Potion Making book on the cover...also a link to Snape)???
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Cassiopeia - Jun 30, 2005 9:12 am (#1048 of 1448)
Interesting...although I'm a little confused - are you linking the Black family with the Snape family or were those two separate thoughts? When I re-read OotP recently, I noticed that one of the things they found while cleaning was a book entitled Nature's Nobility: A Wizarding Genealogy, or rather, Sirius used it to smash a creepy crawly thing. And, it was found in the noble and most ancient house of Black... coincidence???
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Veritaserum - Jun 30, 2005 10:13 am (#1049 of 1448)
Go Jays!
So Sirius as the Half-Blood Prince? I like that idea, even though we know he is a pure blood. He is a "blood-traitor". Or am I just being partial because Sirius is my favorite?
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Cassiopeia - Jun 30, 2005 10:37 am (#1050 of 1448)
Maybe, maybe... Or what about someone else from the Black family, either living or deceased? Phineas Nigellus? I'm just making wild guesses here!
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 1051 to 1100)
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KWeldon - Jun 30, 2005 12:03 pm (#1051 of 1448)
Didn't someone say earlier in this thread that the French translation of the title leaves no question that the prince is technically a half-blood, not that the prince is a "champion" of the half-bloods? Please forgive me if I'm totally wrong.
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Elanor - Jun 30, 2005 12:12 pm (#1052 of 1448)
It is indeed the case. In French, it is "HP et le prince de sang mêlé", meaning here HP and the prince who is half-blood. I hope it helps!
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The Mad Muggle - Jun 30, 2005 12:45 pm (#1053 of 1448)
Personally, I think the HBP will be a totally new character. Maybe he will be the new DADA professor!! The ring , I believe, will be his and will have some major import to the story.
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Liz Mann - Jun 30, 2005 2:25 pm (#1054 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think the HBP will be a new character too. And I'm looking forward to finding out who J.K. was describing when she said on her website, "He looked like a rather old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp." For all we know, this character might be the HBP.
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Tomoé - Jun 30, 2005 2:28 pm (#1055 of 1448)
Back in business
KWeldon, the French, Italian and Spanish translations of jkrowling.com all state HP and the prince who is half-blood (the German and Japanese translation have the same uncertainty than the original title).
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Cassiopeia - Jun 30, 2005 3:39 pm (#1056 of 1448)
I have actually been thinking all along that the HBP will be a new character, too, but those references just made me stop and think...
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Regan of Gong - Jun 30, 2005 11:40 pm (#1057 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Ahh, thanks Mad Muggle, I had forgotten that.
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Love2Travel - Jul 1, 2005 9:24 am (#1058 of 1448)
Ok here I go...I think the HBP is Godrick himself. I also think that we will find out that Harry is related to Godrick through Lily's side (the eyes we have been told play a role). I know we have talked about him being the HBP before but I just wanted to throw it out there again. I can not wait till we can discuss the book after reading it. Think we are having fun now... think of what it will be like discussing/waiting for the 7th book. I love it!!
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Ydnam96 - Jul 1, 2005 9:34 am (#1059 of 1448)
Hey all, I think that the HBP is a character we may have heard of, in some small comment somewhere in the series, but who as a character we haven't gotten to know. So in a way a new character who has been mentioned but we don't know anything about really.
I can't wait
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 1, 2005 10:32 am (#1060 of 1448)
The pattern for the new DADA teacher has been a new character we do not know. If the HBP is the new DADA teacher we will know nothing about him. We may go threw the book thinking it is one person and have it turn out to be someone else.
Love2Travel I'm looking forward to discussing HBP! LPO
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 1, 2005 1:46 pm (#1061 of 1448)
Hi,
I'm sticking with my original guess: Dean Thomas.
I'm probably completely, utterly and hopelessly wrong. The good part is that I will know in just two weeks ... two of the longest weeks in the history of the world!
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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Love2Travel - Jul 1, 2005 2:24 pm (#1062 of 1448)
Have you all heard the theories of the connections between HBP and King Arthur? What do you think?
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Veritaserum - Jul 1, 2005 3:28 pm (#1063 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, here are my candidates. I haven't yet decided on a front runner, but I guess I better start:
Aberforth Dumbledore
Albus Dumbledore
Remus J. Lupin
Severus Snape
Kingsley Shacklebolt
a currently unknown Order member
the "lion-ish" guy
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Chemyst - Jul 1, 2005 4:56 pm (#1064 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Have you all heard the theories of the connections between HBP and King Arthur? What do you think? - Love2Travel
I think JKR has read a lot of the King Arthur stories, has enjoyed them, has assimilated their devices into her subconscious, but has not ever intentionally written Harry or the HBP as a Turn-of-the-Second-Millennium copy of any Arthurian archetype.
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The giant squid - Jul 1, 2005 11:19 pm (#1065 of 1448)
I'm sticking with my prediction of Godric Gryffindor. LIke Joanne, I'm most likely wrong six ways from Sunday, but what the heck? I'll know for sure in less than 2 weeks!
--Mike
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Mrs Brisbee - Jul 2, 2005 5:41 am (#1066 of 1448)
I think Godric Gryffindor is the best bet, too. This whole mess seems to have started 1000 years ago, and I think we will get some history on the founding of the school in HBP. I hope the other two founders fit into the story somewhere though. The sorting hat indicated that Salazar Slytherin fell out with the other three founders. I hope the ladies played some pivotal role, and weren't just tag-alongs.
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Love2Travel - Jul 2, 2005 6:35 am (#1067 of 1448)
I could not agree more! I really hope the ladies are not left out.
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Suspero - Jul 2, 2005 9:26 am (#1068 of 1448)
Professor
We all tend to focus on the question of "who dies?" and JKR (or her publicists or the publishers?) give out hints that someone will die... but has anyone ever asked if anyone can or will be brought back? I just wonder if there's some way to bring Sirius back from "beyond the arch"?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 2, 2005 10:41 am (#1069 of 1448)
Suspero JKR has made it clear that once a character is dead they will remain so. I do not think she will bring anyone back.
I am looking forward to leaning more about Rowena and Helga. If they were good enough witches to help found a school I'm certain they played a role. LPO
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Elanor - Jul 2, 2005 12:26 pm (#1070 of 1448)
I still think Godric Gryffindor is the best candidate for the HBP job too. Only two more weeks before we know...
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Liz Mann - Jul 2, 2005 4:20 pm (#1071 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I agree that I don't think any characters will be coming back from the dead. I suppose there's always a slight chance that a character will appear to be dead but turn out not to be (though I think the chances of that happening with Sirius are slim ). However, just because a character is dead doesn't mean they won't play a part in the story anymore. Look at Obi Wan Kenobi.
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Veritaserum - Jul 2, 2005 9:53 pm (#1072 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I agree with Liz Mann. I think there is definitely something unfinished about Sirius, and I believe he will come back into the story somehow, though not as a living, breathing, wizard. And definitely not as a ghost.
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Ydnam96 - Jul 2, 2005 11:28 pm (#1073 of 1448)
I was having this discussion last night with a friend. It's such a condundrum. Is he really dead? We don't really know what the veil is or what is behind it. Although Lupin and DD and Nick (I think it was those three) all said Sirius wasn't coming back.
JK said in the interview that one can not come back if they are "properly dead." Well, what's the difference between properly and unproperly? We don't know that he is dead do we? I wish I had my book right here with me. I don't remember if DD said specifically said Sirius was dead. I think he did when Phineas asked him about it. So...maybe he is dead.
But there has to be more to it. I don't think JK would have brought the mirror back up if it weren't important. It does make it seem as if Harry could somehow use the mirror to communicate with Sirius. Hmmmm...maybe he'll use it for some other purpose?
Sorry for the long meaningless post. I'm just ruminating "out loud" so to say.
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Sticky Glue - Jul 3, 2005 12:01 am (#1074 of 1448)
I've been re reading Order of the Phoenix, and a comment that Snape made jumped out at me. "The Dark Lord is at a considerable distance and the walls and grounds of Hogwarts are guarded by many ancient spells and charms ................Time and space matter in magic, Potter.
I was thinking that, the reason the two way mirrors would not have helped as much as we think, is because the spells, charms and distance would have stopped them working. But the reason they will be more helpful in the next book, is maybe Harry tries to use his again when he is out side of Hogwarts and closer to the Ministry of Magic.
I think I will post this down in the mirrors tread as well.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 3, 2005 11:37 am (#1075 of 1448)
This is what Jo has to say about Sirius in Paxmen interview 2003: "Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead." (Madame Scoops)I think we can safely say Sirius is dead. Like Liz says just because he is dead doesn't mean he won't play a part in the story. James and Lily helped Harry in GoF. It will be interesting if the HBP ties into the Mauraders generation. We know about them. I hope he ties in the Lily somehow. I would like to learn more about her. LPO
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Ponine - Jul 3, 2005 5:22 pm (#1076 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I think Sirius' death is very final, for the exact reason that it seems to be unfinished. Death often is. Unexpected, sudden, hard to believe and leaving behind a terrible emptiness. In my opinion, this reflects Jo's writing skills, but also her life experience and insight. In some ways, I may actually be disappointed if Harry find a way to talk to Sirius again, although a part of me wishes he could do just that, living out many of ours dream to once again being able to speak to loved ones who are gone.
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Ruthie - Jul 3, 2005 9:16 pm (#1077 of 1448)
Good point Ponine I agree.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 4, 2005 3:48 am (#1078 of 1448)
I have just been to the Bloomsbury website. Where before it immediately took you to a countdown calendar, this month it now has the Weasley's clock. Today (July 4th) it has the message to degnome the garden. Is this a clue that we will be going back to the Burrow?
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Liz Mann - Jul 4, 2005 6:30 am (#1079 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
It could be, or it could just be something that actually is written on the Weasley clock. I suppose it's possible either way.
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mike miller - Jul 5, 2005 7:35 am (#1080 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I think there is a good chance that Harry will at least receive a message or gain critical information from Sirius based on JKR's comment regarding the POA movie. JKR said that there was a scene that gave her goosebumps and that people would say was placed in the film on purpose when they read it later in the series.
There are 2 scenes in the movie that that fit JKR's description; Harry seeing Sirius in the crystal ball and Buckbeak saving Harry and Hermione from Werewolf Lupin. I can easily see the crystal ball and a message from Sirius playing a key part in HBP.
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GryffEndora - Jul 5, 2005 9:01 am (#1081 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Phelim Mcintyre - I have just been to the Bloomsbury website. Where before it immediately took you to a countdown calendar, this month it now has the Weasley's clock. Today (July 4th) it has the message to degnome the garden. Is this a clue that we will be going back to the Burrow?
Liz Mann - It could be, or it could just be something that actually is written on the Weasley clock. I suppose it's possible either way.
I think this probably has more to do with the downloadable Weasley countdown clock and the decorating contest they are having.
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 9:03 am (#1082 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Mike Millar - Well, what the bit that gave her goosebumps is is open to interpretation. I thought it might be what Lupin said about, "Not only was she (Lily) a exceedingly gifted witch, she had a way of seeing the beauty in others even and, perhaps, most especially when that person could not see it in themselves."
But I agree that we could have some kind of message from Sirius, but perhaps not through Divination. I personally think Harry will be giving up that subject this year. Perhaps a written message that he wrote before he died, in case he died.
(Although that where Harry sees Sirius in the crystal ball could be foreshadowing that Harry is a Seer.)
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mike miller - Jul 5, 2005 9:23 am (#1083 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Liz - I agree with Harry's dropping Divination in spite of actually seeing Trelawney give a "valid" prediction and knowing she has done it at least once in the past.
The mirror seems a bit too obvious for JKR, but you never know. I wonder if the Divinations classroom is the only place within Hogwarts that would have a crystal ball? I could see Harry walking aimlessly along the 7th floor corridor thinking of Sirius and coming across the Room of Requirement only to find a crystal ball inside....
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 9:39 am (#1084 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Well, the Room of Requirement gives you whatever you want, so I suppose that is possible. I wonder what would happen if Harry asked the Room of Requirement for Sirius.
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nu9p - Jul 5, 2005 9:46 am (#1085 of 1448)
I'm new, sorry if this has already been posted, but...
I think it would be really cool if Snape were the next DADA teacher.
Reasons, if Rowling wants to have someone break the jinx on the DADA post, then whoever is made DADA teacher in this book will be the last chance to do it in the series. Also, if Snape becomes the next DADA teacher then Harry should be able to continue studying potions under a different teacher, because I really doubt he got an outstanding on his potions owl.
What do you think?
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 10:36 am (#1086 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Welcome to the forum!
I don't think Snape will get the job for a few reasons. Firstly, because Dumbledore has held it from him all this time, he must have a reason for doing so. Secondly, I think there will be a different DADA teacher in every book so if Snape becomes the teacher she will either have to have him sacked or killed off. And also, I think that would be too cruel to Harry. DADA is far more important to him than Potions, so I think it's better to have a teacher he can't get along with in the latter than the former.
However, if J.K. does ever decide to break the jinx on the job he would be a good candidate for it. Perhaps in book seven or when Harry leaves school (or dies, if that be the case ).
I wouldn't have thought Harry aced his Potions exam, either, but we do know that he gets into Potions this year. Or at least, that's what's suggested by the UK adult book cover. So either he did well or Dumbledore forces Snape to let him into the class.
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So Sirius - Jul 5, 2005 10:55 am (#1087 of 1448)
My feelings on the DADA teacher positions have been a well devised plan by DD. I think he knows time in a way that others do not. Except perhaps the centaurs. And I think each DADA teacher has been a force to guide Harry in a way that has suited his needs in each book. That's why Snape hasn't been given this position, thus far. With Quirrel, it was the Voldemort thing. Lockhart provided things for Harry at certain times, and for Hermione as well. Lupin, and Moody, etc. Even Umbridge was a guide in her own psychotic way, by not teaching it gave him a reason to do Dumbledores Army. If Snape had been the DADA teacher from the start, none of that would have come to play. Not to mention, it was Percy who stated that Snape wanted the DADA job, not Snape. He's a potions master, that's his forte. If all goes well into the 7th book for him and he turns out to be a good guy and does actually want the job, I do think however, that DD will give it to him.
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 12:02 pm (#1088 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Those are probably more J.K's reasons for not giving him the job than Dumbledore's. But I do agree with you that it was a good thing he wasn't given the job straight out, and that he might get it eventually.
Not to mention, it was Percy who stated that Snape wanted the DADA job, not Snape. He's a potions master, that's his forte.
Percy is not our only source that Snape wants the job. Umbridge asked Snape if it was true that he had applied for the job several times but been turned down, and Snape confirmed it.
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Finn BV - Jul 5, 2005 3:04 pm (#1089 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Welcome to the forum, nu9p! Yes, Snape being the DADA teacher has been discussed extensively on the Book 6 DADA Teacher thread. Naturally, this would be the first thread you would come to, for all-around HBP stuff, but it was such a popular topic it got its own thread.
Anyway, my personal thoughts are that if Snape gets the DADA position (his chances are slowly running out, of course ) it would have to be in the seventh book. That would be the "only" way to resolve it. Having him get the job in Book 6 leaves Book 7's teacher as an oddball, if you know what I mean.
Edit: As I scroll down the rest of the forum, I see that you have found the Book 6 DADA Teacher thread. Sorry for re-redirecting you, nu9p!
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GryffEndora - Jul 6, 2005 8:28 am (#1090 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I just had to say:
"Ladies & Gentlemen, welcome to single digits!!! Only 9 days (& about 13 hours) until HBP midnight release!!!"
Thank you, and now, back to the HBP Discussion.
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nu9p - Jul 6, 2005 9:36 am (#1091 of 1448)
I guess Rowling could make Snape DADA teacher in the seventh year, and just tell us that he will be returning. I just feel like she has made a big deal about there being a jinx on the DADA post, and that Snape wants the position...so naturally, I assume...
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Liz Mann - Jul 6, 2005 9:42 am (#1092 of 1448)
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I think she put that jinx on the job so that she always has a way to bring new characters into Hogwarts.
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KTO - Jul 6, 2005 10:58 am (#1093 of 1448)
can someone tell me where I can find some good fan fiction, did not see a thread so thought I would post to one that is active, thanks KT
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Liz Mann - Jul 6, 2005 12:59 pm (#1094 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
At the Lexicon Fan Fiction Forum.
(P.S I also have some at my homepage - see my signature.)
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KWeldon - Jul 6, 2005 7:37 pm (#1095 of 1448)
TLC is linking a page to the HP Fan Zone that has more detail for the UK kids cover. Check it out. What is that black thing towards the end of the fire tail?
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Liz Mann - Jul 7, 2005 4:34 am (#1096 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Harry's holding two wands, one which he's holding up and the other seems to be casting lumos or something. Whose is the third wand?
I can't see any black thing.
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nu9p - Jul 7, 2005 5:44 am (#1097 of 1448)
I wonder if Dumbledore and Harry singlehandedly fight Voldemort and a score of Dementors
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Star Crossed - Jul 7, 2005 5:49 am (#1098 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's what I thought, Liz, but the one he's not holding up sort of looks like it's improperly shaped. If you look at Harry's knee cap, the wand sort of curves, much more so than normal wands. So I'm wondering if perhaps it isn't a wand. Not quite sure what it could be though.
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Ginerva Potter - Jul 7, 2005 7:52 am (#1099 of 1448)
I don't think that Harry is holding 2 wands. I'm not sure what that is. KWeldon - are you talking about to the right of the ball of light? I see something, too. It almost looks like a little elf, but I don't think it is. My eyes just won't see it any other way right now.
Ginny
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GryffEndora - Jul 7, 2005 8:51 am (#1100 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Well Round Pink Spider predicted in her most recent newsletter that Harry may break his wand and find a replacement wand that is much more powerful than his original (much like his Nimbus and his Firebolt). It would be pretty neat if she is right and the picture shows Harry's broken wand and the new powerful one. I think RPS is on vacation right now otherwise I would let her speak for herself. I'll have to take a closer look at the picture myself. I thought I was seeing 2 wands also but there was a glare at the bottom of the pic that was throwing me off.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Didn't someone say earlier in this thread that the French translation of the title leaves no question that the prince is technically a half-blood, not that the prince is a "champion" of the half-bloods? Please forgive me if I'm totally wrong.
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Elanor - Jun 30, 2005 12:12 pm (#1052 of 1448)
It is indeed the case. In French, it is "HP et le prince de sang mêlé", meaning here HP and the prince who is half-blood. I hope it helps!
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The Mad Muggle - Jun 30, 2005 12:45 pm (#1053 of 1448)
Personally, I think the HBP will be a totally new character. Maybe he will be the new DADA professor!! The ring , I believe, will be his and will have some major import to the story.
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Liz Mann - Jun 30, 2005 2:25 pm (#1054 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think the HBP will be a new character too. And I'm looking forward to finding out who J.K. was describing when she said on her website, "He looked like a rather old lion. There were streaks of grey in his mane of tawny hair and his bushy eyebrows; he had keen yellowish eyes behind a pair of wire-rimmed spectacles and a certain rangy, loping grace even though he walked with a slight limp." For all we know, this character might be the HBP.
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Tomoé - Jun 30, 2005 2:28 pm (#1055 of 1448)
Back in business
KWeldon, the French, Italian and Spanish translations of jkrowling.com all state HP and the prince who is half-blood (the German and Japanese translation have the same uncertainty than the original title).
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Cassiopeia - Jun 30, 2005 3:39 pm (#1056 of 1448)
I have actually been thinking all along that the HBP will be a new character, too, but those references just made me stop and think...
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Regan of Gong - Jun 30, 2005 11:40 pm (#1057 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Ahh, thanks Mad Muggle, I had forgotten that.
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Love2Travel - Jul 1, 2005 9:24 am (#1058 of 1448)
Ok here I go...I think the HBP is Godrick himself. I also think that we will find out that Harry is related to Godrick through Lily's side (the eyes we have been told play a role). I know we have talked about him being the HBP before but I just wanted to throw it out there again. I can not wait till we can discuss the book after reading it. Think we are having fun now... think of what it will be like discussing/waiting for the 7th book. I love it!!
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Ydnam96 - Jul 1, 2005 9:34 am (#1059 of 1448)
Hey all, I think that the HBP is a character we may have heard of, in some small comment somewhere in the series, but who as a character we haven't gotten to know. So in a way a new character who has been mentioned but we don't know anything about really.
I can't wait
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 1, 2005 10:32 am (#1060 of 1448)
The pattern for the new DADA teacher has been a new character we do not know. If the HBP is the new DADA teacher we will know nothing about him. We may go threw the book thinking it is one person and have it turn out to be someone else.
Love2Travel I'm looking forward to discussing HBP! LPO
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 1, 2005 1:46 pm (#1061 of 1448)
Hi,
I'm sticking with my original guess: Dean Thomas.
I'm probably completely, utterly and hopelessly wrong. The good part is that I will know in just two weeks ... two of the longest weeks in the history of the world!
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks,
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Love2Travel - Jul 1, 2005 2:24 pm (#1062 of 1448)
Have you all heard the theories of the connections between HBP and King Arthur? What do you think?
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Veritaserum - Jul 1, 2005 3:28 pm (#1063 of 1448)
Go Jays!
Okay, here are my candidates. I haven't yet decided on a front runner, but I guess I better start:
Aberforth Dumbledore
Albus Dumbledore
Remus J. Lupin
Severus Snape
Kingsley Shacklebolt
a currently unknown Order member
the "lion-ish" guy
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Chemyst - Jul 1, 2005 4:56 pm (#1064 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
Have you all heard the theories of the connections between HBP and King Arthur? What do you think? - Love2Travel
I think JKR has read a lot of the King Arthur stories, has enjoyed them, has assimilated their devices into her subconscious, but has not ever intentionally written Harry or the HBP as a Turn-of-the-Second-Millennium copy of any Arthurian archetype.
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The giant squid - Jul 1, 2005 11:19 pm (#1065 of 1448)
I'm sticking with my prediction of Godric Gryffindor. LIke Joanne, I'm most likely wrong six ways from Sunday, but what the heck? I'll know for sure in less than 2 weeks!
--Mike
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Mrs Brisbee - Jul 2, 2005 5:41 am (#1066 of 1448)
I think Godric Gryffindor is the best bet, too. This whole mess seems to have started 1000 years ago, and I think we will get some history on the founding of the school in HBP. I hope the other two founders fit into the story somewhere though. The sorting hat indicated that Salazar Slytherin fell out with the other three founders. I hope the ladies played some pivotal role, and weren't just tag-alongs.
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Love2Travel - Jul 2, 2005 6:35 am (#1067 of 1448)
I could not agree more! I really hope the ladies are not left out.
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Suspero - Jul 2, 2005 9:26 am (#1068 of 1448)
Professor
We all tend to focus on the question of "who dies?" and JKR (or her publicists or the publishers?) give out hints that someone will die... but has anyone ever asked if anyone can or will be brought back? I just wonder if there's some way to bring Sirius back from "beyond the arch"?
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 2, 2005 10:41 am (#1069 of 1448)
Suspero JKR has made it clear that once a character is dead they will remain so. I do not think she will bring anyone back.
I am looking forward to leaning more about Rowena and Helga. If they were good enough witches to help found a school I'm certain they played a role. LPO
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Elanor - Jul 2, 2005 12:26 pm (#1070 of 1448)
I still think Godric Gryffindor is the best candidate for the HBP job too. Only two more weeks before we know...
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Liz Mann - Jul 2, 2005 4:20 pm (#1071 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I agree that I don't think any characters will be coming back from the dead. I suppose there's always a slight chance that a character will appear to be dead but turn out not to be (though I think the chances of that happening with Sirius are slim ). However, just because a character is dead doesn't mean they won't play a part in the story anymore. Look at Obi Wan Kenobi.
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Veritaserum - Jul 2, 2005 9:53 pm (#1072 of 1448)
Go Jays!
I agree with Liz Mann. I think there is definitely something unfinished about Sirius, and I believe he will come back into the story somehow, though not as a living, breathing, wizard. And definitely not as a ghost.
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Ydnam96 - Jul 2, 2005 11:28 pm (#1073 of 1448)
I was having this discussion last night with a friend. It's such a condundrum. Is he really dead? We don't really know what the veil is or what is behind it. Although Lupin and DD and Nick (I think it was those three) all said Sirius wasn't coming back.
JK said in the interview that one can not come back if they are "properly dead." Well, what's the difference between properly and unproperly? We don't know that he is dead do we? I wish I had my book right here with me. I don't remember if DD said specifically said Sirius was dead. I think he did when Phineas asked him about it. So...maybe he is dead.
But there has to be more to it. I don't think JK would have brought the mirror back up if it weren't important. It does make it seem as if Harry could somehow use the mirror to communicate with Sirius. Hmmmm...maybe he'll use it for some other purpose?
Sorry for the long meaningless post. I'm just ruminating "out loud" so to say.
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Sticky Glue - Jul 3, 2005 12:01 am (#1074 of 1448)
I've been re reading Order of the Phoenix, and a comment that Snape made jumped out at me. "The Dark Lord is at a considerable distance and the walls and grounds of Hogwarts are guarded by many ancient spells and charms ................Time and space matter in magic, Potter.
I was thinking that, the reason the two way mirrors would not have helped as much as we think, is because the spells, charms and distance would have stopped them working. But the reason they will be more helpful in the next book, is maybe Harry tries to use his again when he is out side of Hogwarts and closer to the Ministry of Magic.
I think I will post this down in the mirrors tread as well.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 3, 2005 11:37 am (#1075 of 1448)
This is what Jo has to say about Sirius in Paxmen interview 2003: "Well I had re-written the death, re-written it and that was it. It was definitive. And the person was definitely dead." (Madame Scoops)I think we can safely say Sirius is dead. Like Liz says just because he is dead doesn't mean he won't play a part in the story. James and Lily helped Harry in GoF. It will be interesting if the HBP ties into the Mauraders generation. We know about them. I hope he ties in the Lily somehow. I would like to learn more about her. LPO
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Ponine - Jul 3, 2005 5:22 pm (#1076 of 1448)
I reject your reality and substitute my own!
I think Sirius' death is very final, for the exact reason that it seems to be unfinished. Death often is. Unexpected, sudden, hard to believe and leaving behind a terrible emptiness. In my opinion, this reflects Jo's writing skills, but also her life experience and insight. In some ways, I may actually be disappointed if Harry find a way to talk to Sirius again, although a part of me wishes he could do just that, living out many of ours dream to once again being able to speak to loved ones who are gone.
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Ruthie - Jul 3, 2005 9:16 pm (#1077 of 1448)
Good point Ponine I agree.
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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 4, 2005 3:48 am (#1078 of 1448)
I have just been to the Bloomsbury website. Where before it immediately took you to a countdown calendar, this month it now has the Weasley's clock. Today (July 4th) it has the message to degnome the garden. Is this a clue that we will be going back to the Burrow?
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Liz Mann - Jul 4, 2005 6:30 am (#1079 of 1448)
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It could be, or it could just be something that actually is written on the Weasley clock. I suppose it's possible either way.
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mike miller - Jul 5, 2005 7:35 am (#1080 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
I think there is a good chance that Harry will at least receive a message or gain critical information from Sirius based on JKR's comment regarding the POA movie. JKR said that there was a scene that gave her goosebumps and that people would say was placed in the film on purpose when they read it later in the series.
There are 2 scenes in the movie that that fit JKR's description; Harry seeing Sirius in the crystal ball and Buckbeak saving Harry and Hermione from Werewolf Lupin. I can easily see the crystal ball and a message from Sirius playing a key part in HBP.
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GryffEndora - Jul 5, 2005 9:01 am (#1081 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Phelim Mcintyre - I have just been to the Bloomsbury website. Where before it immediately took you to a countdown calendar, this month it now has the Weasley's clock. Today (July 4th) it has the message to degnome the garden. Is this a clue that we will be going back to the Burrow?
Liz Mann - It could be, or it could just be something that actually is written on the Weasley clock. I suppose it's possible either way.
I think this probably has more to do with the downloadable Weasley countdown clock and the decorating contest they are having.
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 9:03 am (#1082 of 1448)
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Mike Millar - Well, what the bit that gave her goosebumps is is open to interpretation. I thought it might be what Lupin said about, "Not only was she (Lily) a exceedingly gifted witch, she had a way of seeing the beauty in others even and, perhaps, most especially when that person could not see it in themselves."
But I agree that we could have some kind of message from Sirius, but perhaps not through Divination. I personally think Harry will be giving up that subject this year. Perhaps a written message that he wrote before he died, in case he died.
(Although that where Harry sees Sirius in the crystal ball could be foreshadowing that Harry is a Seer.)
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mike miller - Jul 5, 2005 9:23 am (#1083 of 1448)
aka The Barmy Old Codger
Liz - I agree with Harry's dropping Divination in spite of actually seeing Trelawney give a "valid" prediction and knowing she has done it at least once in the past.
The mirror seems a bit too obvious for JKR, but you never know. I wonder if the Divinations classroom is the only place within Hogwarts that would have a crystal ball? I could see Harry walking aimlessly along the 7th floor corridor thinking of Sirius and coming across the Room of Requirement only to find a crystal ball inside....
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 9:39 am (#1084 of 1448)
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Well, the Room of Requirement gives you whatever you want, so I suppose that is possible. I wonder what would happen if Harry asked the Room of Requirement for Sirius.
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nu9p - Jul 5, 2005 9:46 am (#1085 of 1448)
I'm new, sorry if this has already been posted, but...
I think it would be really cool if Snape were the next DADA teacher.
Reasons, if Rowling wants to have someone break the jinx on the DADA post, then whoever is made DADA teacher in this book will be the last chance to do it in the series. Also, if Snape becomes the next DADA teacher then Harry should be able to continue studying potions under a different teacher, because I really doubt he got an outstanding on his potions owl.
What do you think?
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 10:36 am (#1086 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Welcome to the forum!
I don't think Snape will get the job for a few reasons. Firstly, because Dumbledore has held it from him all this time, he must have a reason for doing so. Secondly, I think there will be a different DADA teacher in every book so if Snape becomes the teacher she will either have to have him sacked or killed off. And also, I think that would be too cruel to Harry. DADA is far more important to him than Potions, so I think it's better to have a teacher he can't get along with in the latter than the former.
However, if J.K. does ever decide to break the jinx on the job he would be a good candidate for it. Perhaps in book seven or when Harry leaves school (or dies, if that be the case ).
I wouldn't have thought Harry aced his Potions exam, either, but we do know that he gets into Potions this year. Or at least, that's what's suggested by the UK adult book cover. So either he did well or Dumbledore forces Snape to let him into the class.
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So Sirius - Jul 5, 2005 10:55 am (#1087 of 1448)
My feelings on the DADA teacher positions have been a well devised plan by DD. I think he knows time in a way that others do not. Except perhaps the centaurs. And I think each DADA teacher has been a force to guide Harry in a way that has suited his needs in each book. That's why Snape hasn't been given this position, thus far. With Quirrel, it was the Voldemort thing. Lockhart provided things for Harry at certain times, and for Hermione as well. Lupin, and Moody, etc. Even Umbridge was a guide in her own psychotic way, by not teaching it gave him a reason to do Dumbledores Army. If Snape had been the DADA teacher from the start, none of that would have come to play. Not to mention, it was Percy who stated that Snape wanted the DADA job, not Snape. He's a potions master, that's his forte. If all goes well into the 7th book for him and he turns out to be a good guy and does actually want the job, I do think however, that DD will give it to him.
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Liz Mann - Jul 5, 2005 12:02 pm (#1088 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Those are probably more J.K's reasons for not giving him the job than Dumbledore's. But I do agree with you that it was a good thing he wasn't given the job straight out, and that he might get it eventually.
Not to mention, it was Percy who stated that Snape wanted the DADA job, not Snape. He's a potions master, that's his forte.
Percy is not our only source that Snape wants the job. Umbridge asked Snape if it was true that he had applied for the job several times but been turned down, and Snape confirmed it.
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Finn BV - Jul 5, 2005 3:04 pm (#1089 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
Welcome to the forum, nu9p! Yes, Snape being the DADA teacher has been discussed extensively on the Book 6 DADA Teacher thread. Naturally, this would be the first thread you would come to, for all-around HBP stuff, but it was such a popular topic it got its own thread.
Anyway, my personal thoughts are that if Snape gets the DADA position (his chances are slowly running out, of course ) it would have to be in the seventh book. That would be the "only" way to resolve it. Having him get the job in Book 6 leaves Book 7's teacher as an oddball, if you know what I mean.
Edit: As I scroll down the rest of the forum, I see that you have found the Book 6 DADA Teacher thread. Sorry for re-redirecting you, nu9p!
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GryffEndora - Jul 6, 2005 8:28 am (#1090 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
I just had to say:
"Ladies & Gentlemen, welcome to single digits!!! Only 9 days (& about 13 hours) until HBP midnight release!!!"
Thank you, and now, back to the HBP Discussion.
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nu9p - Jul 6, 2005 9:36 am (#1091 of 1448)
I guess Rowling could make Snape DADA teacher in the seventh year, and just tell us that he will be returning. I just feel like she has made a big deal about there being a jinx on the DADA post, and that Snape wants the position...so naturally, I assume...
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Liz Mann - Jul 6, 2005 9:42 am (#1092 of 1448)
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I think she put that jinx on the job so that she always has a way to bring new characters into Hogwarts.
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KTO - Jul 6, 2005 10:58 am (#1093 of 1448)
can someone tell me where I can find some good fan fiction, did not see a thread so thought I would post to one that is active, thanks KT
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Liz Mann - Jul 6, 2005 12:59 pm (#1094 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
At the Lexicon Fan Fiction Forum.
(P.S I also have some at my homepage - see my signature.)
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KWeldon - Jul 6, 2005 7:37 pm (#1095 of 1448)
TLC is linking a page to the HP Fan Zone that has more detail for the UK kids cover. Check it out. What is that black thing towards the end of the fire tail?
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Liz Mann - Jul 7, 2005 4:34 am (#1096 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Harry's holding two wands, one which he's holding up and the other seems to be casting lumos or something. Whose is the third wand?
I can't see any black thing.
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nu9p - Jul 7, 2005 5:44 am (#1097 of 1448)
I wonder if Dumbledore and Harry singlehandedly fight Voldemort and a score of Dementors
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Star Crossed - Jul 7, 2005 5:49 am (#1098 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
That's what I thought, Liz, but the one he's not holding up sort of looks like it's improperly shaped. If you look at Harry's knee cap, the wand sort of curves, much more so than normal wands. So I'm wondering if perhaps it isn't a wand. Not quite sure what it could be though.
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Ginerva Potter - Jul 7, 2005 7:52 am (#1099 of 1448)
I don't think that Harry is holding 2 wands. I'm not sure what that is. KWeldon - are you talking about to the right of the ball of light? I see something, too. It almost looks like a little elf, but I don't think it is. My eyes just won't see it any other way right now.
Ginny
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GryffEndora - Jul 7, 2005 8:51 am (#1100 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Well Round Pink Spider predicted in her most recent newsletter that Harry may break his wand and find a replacement wand that is much more powerful than his original (much like his Nimbus and his Firebolt). It would be pretty neat if she is right and the picture shows Harry's broken wand and the new powerful one. I think RPS is on vacation right now otherwise I would let her speak for herself. I'll have to take a closer look at the picture myself. I thought I was seeing 2 wands also but there was a glare at the bottom of the pic that was throwing me off.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Age : 52
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 1101 to 1150)
Elanor Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:52 am
Love2Travel - Jul 7, 2005 9:15 am (#1101 of 1448)
Hi Everyone! I printed the picture (so I could see it better cause I am NOT getting older or anything) When I looked at the printed copy I noticed a couple of things: 1st- There is something from Harry's robes hanging into the fire. It looks like it was painted over the fire. It is right by his hand. 2nd- At the foot of DD's robe. Between the glow of the wand and DD's robe it does look like there is something there. It looks like the glow was made that bright so it will cover up what it is. 3rd- It looks like something is hanging on Harry's jacket. Look at his jacket between Harry and DD. It looks like something is hanging on him. 4th-Harry is in Muggle clothing. So, are we to guess (maybe) that something happens at Pivot Drive?
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KWeldon - Jul 7, 2005 10:28 am (#1102 of 1448)
Okay, never mind. The black thing that I was seeing is the background, where the fire is absent. God, I'm so desperate for this book.
I see the line coming out from Harry's knee that some are thinking might be another wand. Not sure what it is.
By the way, are we to assume that this line of fire is the same one that binds the two hands?
Good catch, Love2Travel, on Harry wearing muggle clothes. I hadn't thought of that.
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nu9p - Jul 7, 2005 12:10 pm (#1103 of 1448)
When I look at the original picture it looks as if Dumbledore and Harry are both holding wands. Both wands seem to have a curve at the end. In this extended picture is looks as if the fire is originating from Dumbledore's wand (kind of like in the OOTP when he lassos Voldemort), and creating a protective ring around Harry and Dumbledore. The third wand looks like it could be in Harry's hand, but I don't actually see a human hand around it. I think there are definitely three wands. The new wand is either producing a lumos or patronous.
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Madam Pince - Jul 7, 2005 2:51 pm (#1104 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I don't know why, but that third thing doesn't strike me as being a wand, even though that "glow" looks like a lumos charm or something. It looks more to me like the edge of Harry's robes -- Harry appears to be wearing jeans, with robes over.
I have no idea what that little "clump" of stuff is at the foot of Dumbledore's robes and to the right of the "glow." Ginny is right, it looks sort of like an elf to my tired eyes. I wish I could make it bigger!
All in all, a bit disappointing because I can't see much. It does confirm for me what my initial impression of the cover art was -- that Dumbledore is creating some sort of protective ring of fire around himself and Harry.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 7, 2005 3:09 pm (#1105 of 1448)
Does anyone have a link to a larger image? Alas,I need cheaters.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 7, 2005 3:38 pm (#1106 of 1448)
I agree with Madam Pince that the "wand" looks more like the edge of Harry's robes.
To me, the thing at the bottom (to the right of the light) looks like a small person with dark skin and hair (styled like he's from the 50's). It looks like he's wearing blue pants and a yellowish-orange shirt. This strikes me as odd, since JKR said that little people didn't fit into her world.
Then again, I have very poor eye-sight for someone of my age, so who knows if that's what it really is. It's probably something not even close to a person, like a cactus or something, knowing how well I can see...
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Liz Mann - Jul 7, 2005 4:17 pm (#1107 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Now that I look closer, I think the third wand is the edge of Harry's robes too. As for the object just beside the ball of light, I think that might be Dumbledore's shoe. I've just downloaded the picture onto my computer and zoomed in on it. I'm sure it's his shoe.
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bella - Jul 7, 2005 4:20 pm (#1108 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Yep, it definiltely looks like a boot. As for the wand, I'm at a miss.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 7, 2005 4:21 pm (#1109 of 1448)
I'll take your word for it, Liz Mann!
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Ruthie - Jul 7, 2005 5:22 pm (#1110 of 1448)
I think it's definitely DDs boot in the bottom right, but I'm not so sure about the line being Harry's robes. It doesn't seem to fit and IMO it looks like Harry is wearing a jumper rather than robes as nothing seems to be flowing out to the left. I thought maybe it could be one of his parents wands....(I know, a bit far-fetched but just let me grab my umbrella before you start throwing dungbombs). Also, any ideas what the greenish background is? That's got me totally stumped.
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Madam Pince - Jul 7, 2005 5:28 pm (#1111 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Clearly, it's the green stuff flowing out of the Pensieve on the U.S. cover -- it's crossed the Atlantic and spilled over onto the British cover.
Just kidding -- I've no idea. Although actually, it might be the same "stuff" that's on the U.S. cover, whatever that may be. There might be some very important plot point that's described in the book as having a greenish glow, and both illustrators put it on their covers somewhere.
Well, Dumbledore has had interesting headgear in the movie versions, so why shouldn't he have interesting footwear? Maybe it's a magical sock? I've long suspected that JKR has made too many little hints out of socks throughout the books for them not to be a plot point at some time.
Edit: Oooooooo.....post #1111 -- that's the first time ever I've had even a remotely interesting post number!
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 7, 2005 7:08 pm (#1112 of 1448)
Herm-own-ninny Weezly,I agree that at the bottom right it looks like a little bearded man.I also see that he has a black hat with a gold buckle.A leprechaun?
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Hermy - Jul 7, 2005 8:49 pm (#1113 of 1448)
TLC has a link to the full US version pictures including book summary.
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Amilia Smith - Jul 7, 2005 9:04 pm (#1114 of 1448)
Yes, but can you make anything out? I can possibly see Ron, Hermione and the Dark Mark. And I don't think I'd be able to make that much out if it weren't for its resemblance to the promotional cutout we were analyzing months ago.
Mills.
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Regan of Gong - Jul 8, 2005 4:15 am (#1115 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Yeah, I thought I saw a Dark Mark as well. Personally I thought the whole extended cover looks like the Chamber of Secrets, or maybe it's just me. I can't remember the description, but all the stalactites hanging from the roof seemed to give the impression of a chamber or cave deep underground.
Pity it's low-res or one of those blessed with the magic of Photoshop could tell us the book summary on the back....
Regan
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 6:23 am (#1116 of 1448)
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I zoomed in on the back cover and it looks to me like it's just exactly what we've seen before - Ron, Hermione and the mistery girl, and the Dark Mark.
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nu9p - Jul 8, 2005 6:52 am (#1117 of 1448)
TLC has removed the link, does anyone else have it???
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 7:00 am (#1118 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Apparently they'll put up something better later.
Edit: Mugglenet are saying that Scholastic are giving them something better. Perhaps a clear shot of the back cover!
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 7:16 am (#1119 of 1448)
Oooooohhhh....I CANNOT WAIT!~
I, too, see a little something at the bottom of the picture. I can't make out a face, but it is definitely something worth researching further.
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Denise P. - Jul 8, 2005 9:14 am (#1120 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Personally, I would say there is nothing even remotely spoiler like about the back cover but everyone has their own idea of what it is. TLC has a high res photo of the back cover up now. Highlight -->>It shows Ron, Hermione, and I believe Ginny and Neville kinda crouched behind a rock looking up into the sky where a Dark Mark is.<<---
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Mrs. Sirius - Jul 8, 2005 9:27 am (#1121 of 1448)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Thanks Denise, is Harry ont in the picture?
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Denise P. - Jul 8, 2005 9:35 am (#1122 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
He is on the front cover, with Dumbledore. When you open the book, it would be one big picture.
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Love2Travel - Jul 8, 2005 9:35 am (#1123 of 1448)
I love these conversations!! Has anyone seen todays countdown phrase? "Time to test your torch" What is that about? A Torch? Is this a clue??
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Fawksey girl - Jul 8, 2005 9:42 am (#1124 of 1448)
Has anyone checked the numbers JO released when referring to how many emails she sorts out from people demanding to know the identity of the half blood prince(21,956038) I thought that was too specific of a number not to mean anything. COuld it be a clue, if anyone is good at dissecting numbers or translating them to letters I would appreciate the help.
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 9:57 am (#1125 of 1448)
Is anyone having trouble with the TLC site? It comes up with all sorts of rubbish instead of text........
Fawksey girl------where did you get those numbers?
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GryffEndora - Jul 8, 2005 10:05 am (#1126 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Yes, Leaky's site is all messed up for me too!
Denise - I agree with who you are seeing but I didn't see them behind a rock. I just see them looking up and their bodies are incomplete. Probably to go along with the wispy green smoke like stuff. The thing that worries me is that the Dark Mark seems to be over Hogwarts.
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Ann - Jul 8, 2005 10:07 am (#1127 of 1448)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 8, 2005 10:12 am
Fawksey girl, I tried a simple letter substitution (A=1, etc.) and you get nothing.
Mugglenet just posted a link to the hi-resolution back cover art. Highlight to read description ** Looks to me like Ron, Hermione, and Cho (or someone else Asian)and possibly Neville at the left edge--watching the Dark Mark with a castle in the back. Could be the same scene as Dumbledore and Harry on the front, but I don't quite see how, except that they're both green. ** end highlight
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Denise P. - Jul 8, 2005 10:14 am (#1128 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
GryffEndora, you are correct, I didn't look closely enough to see and just let my mind fill in the logical thing
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 8, 2005 10:22 am (#1129 of 1448)
Is that Hogwarts under the Dark Mark? Perhaps the DE do invade Hogwarts.
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Star Crossed - Jul 8, 2005 10:23 am (#1130 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jul 8, 2005 10:26 am
Wow. I don't know what else to say.
Why does Ron look so weird? Truthfully, if he wasn't a main character and he wasn't next to Hermione, I would never guess that was him. And where do people see Neville and Cho? The person on the furthest left? I keep staring at it, and the person seems darker than everybody else. So I was thinking maybe Dean? It scares me how much the Dark Mark is close to the castle. So I'm going to take a guess and say that there is either an attack on Hogsmeade or Hogwarts, itself. I don't think it'll be Hogwarts though. I think that'll be the seventh book. I think Hogsmeade is quite likely though.
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Fawksey girl - Jul 8, 2005 10:28 am (#1131 of 1448)
I got those numbers from jo website on the News link. Thanks for trying.
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So Sirius - Jul 8, 2005 10:30 am (#1132 of 1448)
The dark mark is over the castle. Interesting. I suppose all those who felt the war would be brought to the castle, was right.
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Helen Potterfan - Jul 8, 2005 10:37 am (#1133 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Well, here's my take on the back cover: I think the people shown are Ron, Hermione, and Ginny. The person in the back is less clear. My guess is either Luna or whomever is the Half-Blood Prince. The dark mark is definitely near Hogwarts, but the fog makes Hogwarts seem farther away, so I'm guessing it's over somewhere near it, but not the castle itself. I agree that Ron is drawn too short, and I'm disappointed that we didn't get the back text. I really wanted a teaser! At least it's only one week to go!
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Lily Evans - Jul 8, 2005 10:47 am (#1134 of 1448)
New here, just wanted to add my thoughts and get some feedback.
I remember reading somewhere that JKR said Harry will find love this year. Maybe the unknown girl on the back is Harry's new girlfriend. Does anyone else remember JKR saying this?
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Gina R Snape - Jul 8, 2005 10:53 am (#1135 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Ooooh, well it definitely looks like the Dark Mark will be looming large in the lives of wizarding Great Britain! I don't foresee a great battle *at* Hogwarts per se. Hogsmeade maybe? Perhaps they all go off the grounds somewhere unprotected. At any rate, I suspect the dark mark will appear more than once in the book, striking terror in the hearts of people. I don't think that particular dark mark is heralding an actual battle either. I think it's a warning. Don't ask me why.
I do think the kids in the picture are Neville, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. I don't think the other female is Cho. She doesn't look asian to me, just that her head it tilted up at an angle that sort of flattens her face a bit. I mean, Ron's face looks nearly like a girl in my opinion.
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 10:55 am (#1136 of 1448)
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I think it's a crowd looking up, maybe lots of students. They don't look too worried, though. Hey, I think I see the brances of an evergreen tree at the right of the picture. Maybe they're standing on the edge of the forest.
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 10:59 am (#1137 of 1448)
Maybe the other girl is Luna..........
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 11:02 am (#1138 of 1448)
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She looks like she has reddish hair, so I think it's probably Ginny. Luna has dirty blond hair.
Man, I'm getting excited now!
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 11:07 am (#1139 of 1448)
But I thought there were 3 girls....
:::::::runs to look at the picture again::::::::::::::
EDIT: I think the person behind Ron is Luna. I think she looks dark because she is in a shadow.....
I don't see Neville anywhere!!
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 11:15 am (#1140 of 1448)
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There's someone standing behind them but it's unclear who it is. Maybe Cho.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2005 11:21 am (#1141 of 1448)
The Dark Mark is scary. Death Eaters used to send it up when they killed someone. I think it is Ron, Hermione, Ginny and Neville on the cover. Neville is a "round faced boy". I think the face in the back is him. He is always around. This is really exciting! LPO
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Betelgeuse Black - Jul 8, 2005 11:40 am (#1142 of 1448)
Looks to me like a crowd of students are looking up at the dark mark. Only Ron & Hermione are really clearly drawn (and look how close together they are!) The others are fuzzier until they look like dark shadows in the background.
Off to the 'ship thread! Betelgeuse
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 11:53 am (#1143 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Only Ron & Hermione are really clearly drawn (and look how close together they are!)
That's what I was thinking, Betelgeuse!
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 8, 2005 1:06 pm (#1144 of 1448)
Hi,
The most disturbing thing to me is the Dark Mark itself. DEs use it to signify a murder. The good part is that Harry, Hermione, Ginny and Ron (I assume it's those four) are alive and can see it. The bad part is that they are looking at the Dark Mark! EEK!
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks
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Reading muggle - Jul 8, 2005 1:49 pm (#1145 of 1448)
Same here, Joanne, the Dark Mark at Hogwarts, that draws my attention. Who would conjure "Morsmordre" at Hogwarts? Are there death eaters on the school grounds?
I wonder if we will see any of the back-cover text before the book is released?
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popkin - Jul 8, 2005 3:00 pm (#1146 of 1448)
mother
My husband thinks the crowd looks as if they are in the pensieve scene that Dumbledore and Harry are looking at on the front cover. The green is kind of swirling around them. I think it looks like either an Asian or a black person behind Ron, so I'm thinking it's either Cho or Dean Thomas.
Do you suppose the synopsis on the cover gives away so much of the plot that it would spoil the book? Why don't they let us read it?
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GryffEndora - Jul 8, 2005 3:05 pm (#1147 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
popkin - Do you suppose the synopsis on the cover gives away so much of the plot that it would spoil the book? Why don't they let us read it?
The synopsis on the OotP cover told about Ron making the Quidditch team, and Harry having to help him a lot (if I remember correctly). I remember being shocked that a detail this important was just out there. It wouldn't surprise me if some important detail is is on the book jacket again, although as I'm looking at the back of the paperback edition I see that they changed it, so maybe that won't happen again.
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bella - Jul 8, 2005 3:21 pm (#1148 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I don't see the point in putting a plot summary on the back cover at all if it is going to ruin the book for everyone. It's frusterating knowing its there and we can't read it.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2005 3:22 pm (#1149 of 1448)
I wouldn't mind reading it. Speculating on it will help pass the time. LPO
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Hem Hem - Jul 8, 2005 3:46 pm (#1150 of 1448)
With OotP, there were certainly "spoilerish" details in the book summary, and they were public a couple of months before the book was released. But I never felt bad about being "spoiled" with the jacket text because there would be no doubt that I'd have read it before reading the book anyways.
If the book summary is too detailed to be revealed yet, it won't help me much. I would never have the self-control to avoid reading it for more than a moment after the book is in my hands.
Hi everybody! I figure I'm sort of back, a little... probably I'll be here more once HBP is out!
My year was fantastic, and I'm home again this summer.
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Hi Everyone! I printed the picture (so I could see it better cause I am NOT getting older or anything) When I looked at the printed copy I noticed a couple of things: 1st- There is something from Harry's robes hanging into the fire. It looks like it was painted over the fire. It is right by his hand. 2nd- At the foot of DD's robe. Between the glow of the wand and DD's robe it does look like there is something there. It looks like the glow was made that bright so it will cover up what it is. 3rd- It looks like something is hanging on Harry's jacket. Look at his jacket between Harry and DD. It looks like something is hanging on him. 4th-Harry is in Muggle clothing. So, are we to guess (maybe) that something happens at Pivot Drive?
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KWeldon - Jul 7, 2005 10:28 am (#1102 of 1448)
Okay, never mind. The black thing that I was seeing is the background, where the fire is absent. God, I'm so desperate for this book.
I see the line coming out from Harry's knee that some are thinking might be another wand. Not sure what it is.
By the way, are we to assume that this line of fire is the same one that binds the two hands?
Good catch, Love2Travel, on Harry wearing muggle clothes. I hadn't thought of that.
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nu9p - Jul 7, 2005 12:10 pm (#1103 of 1448)
When I look at the original picture it looks as if Dumbledore and Harry are both holding wands. Both wands seem to have a curve at the end. In this extended picture is looks as if the fire is originating from Dumbledore's wand (kind of like in the OOTP when he lassos Voldemort), and creating a protective ring around Harry and Dumbledore. The third wand looks like it could be in Harry's hand, but I don't actually see a human hand around it. I think there are definitely three wands. The new wand is either producing a lumos or patronous.
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Madam Pince - Jul 7, 2005 2:51 pm (#1104 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
I don't know why, but that third thing doesn't strike me as being a wand, even though that "glow" looks like a lumos charm or something. It looks more to me like the edge of Harry's robes -- Harry appears to be wearing jeans, with robes over.
I have no idea what that little "clump" of stuff is at the foot of Dumbledore's robes and to the right of the "glow." Ginny is right, it looks sort of like an elf to my tired eyes. I wish I could make it bigger!
All in all, a bit disappointing because I can't see much. It does confirm for me what my initial impression of the cover art was -- that Dumbledore is creating some sort of protective ring of fire around himself and Harry.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 7, 2005 3:09 pm (#1105 of 1448)
Does anyone have a link to a larger image? Alas,I need cheaters.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 7, 2005 3:38 pm (#1106 of 1448)
I agree with Madam Pince that the "wand" looks more like the edge of Harry's robes.
To me, the thing at the bottom (to the right of the light) looks like a small person with dark skin and hair (styled like he's from the 50's). It looks like he's wearing blue pants and a yellowish-orange shirt. This strikes me as odd, since JKR said that little people didn't fit into her world.
Then again, I have very poor eye-sight for someone of my age, so who knows if that's what it really is. It's probably something not even close to a person, like a cactus or something, knowing how well I can see...
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Liz Mann - Jul 7, 2005 4:17 pm (#1107 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Now that I look closer, I think the third wand is the edge of Harry's robes too. As for the object just beside the ball of light, I think that might be Dumbledore's shoe. I've just downloaded the picture onto my computer and zoomed in on it. I'm sure it's his shoe.
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bella - Jul 7, 2005 4:20 pm (#1108 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
Yep, it definiltely looks like a boot. As for the wand, I'm at a miss.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 7, 2005 4:21 pm (#1109 of 1448)
I'll take your word for it, Liz Mann!
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Ruthie - Jul 7, 2005 5:22 pm (#1110 of 1448)
I think it's definitely DDs boot in the bottom right, but I'm not so sure about the line being Harry's robes. It doesn't seem to fit and IMO it looks like Harry is wearing a jumper rather than robes as nothing seems to be flowing out to the left. I thought maybe it could be one of his parents wands....(I know, a bit far-fetched but just let me grab my umbrella before you start throwing dungbombs). Also, any ideas what the greenish background is? That's got me totally stumped.
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Madam Pince - Jul 7, 2005 5:28 pm (#1111 of 1448)
The eyes are the windows to the soul...
Clearly, it's the green stuff flowing out of the Pensieve on the U.S. cover -- it's crossed the Atlantic and spilled over onto the British cover.
Just kidding -- I've no idea. Although actually, it might be the same "stuff" that's on the U.S. cover, whatever that may be. There might be some very important plot point that's described in the book as having a greenish glow, and both illustrators put it on their covers somewhere.
Well, Dumbledore has had interesting headgear in the movie versions, so why shouldn't he have interesting footwear? Maybe it's a magical sock? I've long suspected that JKR has made too many little hints out of socks throughout the books for them not to be a plot point at some time.
Edit: Oooooooo.....post #1111 -- that's the first time ever I've had even a remotely interesting post number!
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 7, 2005 7:08 pm (#1112 of 1448)
Herm-own-ninny Weezly,I agree that at the bottom right it looks like a little bearded man.I also see that he has a black hat with a gold buckle.A leprechaun?
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Hermy - Jul 7, 2005 8:49 pm (#1113 of 1448)
TLC has a link to the full US version pictures including book summary.
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Amilia Smith - Jul 7, 2005 9:04 pm (#1114 of 1448)
Yes, but can you make anything out? I can possibly see Ron, Hermione and the Dark Mark. And I don't think I'd be able to make that much out if it weren't for its resemblance to the promotional cutout we were analyzing months ago.
Mills.
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Regan of Gong - Jul 8, 2005 4:15 am (#1115 of 1448)
Self declared doctor of everything.
Yeah, I thought I saw a Dark Mark as well. Personally I thought the whole extended cover looks like the Chamber of Secrets, or maybe it's just me. I can't remember the description, but all the stalactites hanging from the roof seemed to give the impression of a chamber or cave deep underground.
Pity it's low-res or one of those blessed with the magic of Photoshop could tell us the book summary on the back....
Regan
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 6:23 am (#1116 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I zoomed in on the back cover and it looks to me like it's just exactly what we've seen before - Ron, Hermione and the mistery girl, and the Dark Mark.
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nu9p - Jul 8, 2005 6:52 am (#1117 of 1448)
TLC has removed the link, does anyone else have it???
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 7:00 am (#1118 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Apparently they'll put up something better later.
Edit: Mugglenet are saying that Scholastic are giving them something better. Perhaps a clear shot of the back cover!
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 7:16 am (#1119 of 1448)
Oooooohhhh....I CANNOT WAIT!~
I, too, see a little something at the bottom of the picture. I can't make out a face, but it is definitely something worth researching further.
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Denise P. - Jul 8, 2005 9:14 am (#1120 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Personally, I would say there is nothing even remotely spoiler like about the back cover but everyone has their own idea of what it is. TLC has a high res photo of the back cover up now. Highlight -->>It shows Ron, Hermione, and I believe Ginny and Neville kinda crouched behind a rock looking up into the sky where a Dark Mark is.<<---
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Mrs. Sirius - Jul 8, 2005 9:27 am (#1121 of 1448)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
Thanks Denise, is Harry ont in the picture?
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Denise P. - Jul 8, 2005 9:35 am (#1122 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
He is on the front cover, with Dumbledore. When you open the book, it would be one big picture.
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Love2Travel - Jul 8, 2005 9:35 am (#1123 of 1448)
I love these conversations!! Has anyone seen todays countdown phrase? "Time to test your torch" What is that about? A Torch? Is this a clue??
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Fawksey girl - Jul 8, 2005 9:42 am (#1124 of 1448)
Has anyone checked the numbers JO released when referring to how many emails she sorts out from people demanding to know the identity of the half blood prince(21,956038) I thought that was too specific of a number not to mean anything. COuld it be a clue, if anyone is good at dissecting numbers or translating them to letters I would appreciate the help.
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 9:57 am (#1125 of 1448)
Is anyone having trouble with the TLC site? It comes up with all sorts of rubbish instead of text........
Fawksey girl------where did you get those numbers?
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GryffEndora - Jul 8, 2005 10:05 am (#1126 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
Yes, Leaky's site is all messed up for me too!
Denise - I agree with who you are seeing but I didn't see them behind a rock. I just see them looking up and their bodies are incomplete. Probably to go along with the wispy green smoke like stuff. The thing that worries me is that the Dark Mark seems to be over Hogwarts.
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Ann - Jul 8, 2005 10:07 am (#1127 of 1448)
Edited by Denise P. Jul 8, 2005 10:12 am
Fawksey girl, I tried a simple letter substitution (A=1, etc.) and you get nothing.
Mugglenet just posted a link to the hi-resolution back cover art. Highlight to read description ** Looks to me like Ron, Hermione, and Cho (or someone else Asian)and possibly Neville at the left edge--watching the Dark Mark with a castle in the back. Could be the same scene as Dumbledore and Harry on the front, but I don't quite see how, except that they're both green. ** end highlight
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Denise P. - Jul 8, 2005 10:14 am (#1128 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
GryffEndora, you are correct, I didn't look closely enough to see and just let my mind fill in the logical thing
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 8, 2005 10:22 am (#1129 of 1448)
Is that Hogwarts under the Dark Mark? Perhaps the DE do invade Hogwarts.
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Star Crossed - Jul 8, 2005 10:23 am (#1130 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Edited by Jul 8, 2005 10:26 am
Wow. I don't know what else to say.
Why does Ron look so weird? Truthfully, if he wasn't a main character and he wasn't next to Hermione, I would never guess that was him. And where do people see Neville and Cho? The person on the furthest left? I keep staring at it, and the person seems darker than everybody else. So I was thinking maybe Dean? It scares me how much the Dark Mark is close to the castle. So I'm going to take a guess and say that there is either an attack on Hogsmeade or Hogwarts, itself. I don't think it'll be Hogwarts though. I think that'll be the seventh book. I think Hogsmeade is quite likely though.
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Fawksey girl - Jul 8, 2005 10:28 am (#1131 of 1448)
I got those numbers from jo website on the News link. Thanks for trying.
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So Sirius - Jul 8, 2005 10:30 am (#1132 of 1448)
The dark mark is over the castle. Interesting. I suppose all those who felt the war would be brought to the castle, was right.
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Helen Potterfan - Jul 8, 2005 10:37 am (#1133 of 1448)
formerly known as "Accio HBP"
Well, here's my take on the back cover: I think the people shown are Ron, Hermione, and Ginny. The person in the back is less clear. My guess is either Luna or whomever is the Half-Blood Prince. The dark mark is definitely near Hogwarts, but the fog makes Hogwarts seem farther away, so I'm guessing it's over somewhere near it, but not the castle itself. I agree that Ron is drawn too short, and I'm disappointed that we didn't get the back text. I really wanted a teaser! At least it's only one week to go!
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Lily Evans - Jul 8, 2005 10:47 am (#1134 of 1448)
New here, just wanted to add my thoughts and get some feedback.
I remember reading somewhere that JKR said Harry will find love this year. Maybe the unknown girl on the back is Harry's new girlfriend. Does anyone else remember JKR saying this?
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Gina R Snape - Jul 8, 2005 10:53 am (#1135 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Ooooh, well it definitely looks like the Dark Mark will be looming large in the lives of wizarding Great Britain! I don't foresee a great battle *at* Hogwarts per se. Hogsmeade maybe? Perhaps they all go off the grounds somewhere unprotected. At any rate, I suspect the dark mark will appear more than once in the book, striking terror in the hearts of people. I don't think that particular dark mark is heralding an actual battle either. I think it's a warning. Don't ask me why.
I do think the kids in the picture are Neville, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. I don't think the other female is Cho. She doesn't look asian to me, just that her head it tilted up at an angle that sort of flattens her face a bit. I mean, Ron's face looks nearly like a girl in my opinion.
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 10:55 am (#1136 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I think it's a crowd looking up, maybe lots of students. They don't look too worried, though. Hey, I think I see the brances of an evergreen tree at the right of the picture. Maybe they're standing on the edge of the forest.
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 10:59 am (#1137 of 1448)
Maybe the other girl is Luna..........
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 11:02 am (#1138 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
She looks like she has reddish hair, so I think it's probably Ginny. Luna has dirty blond hair.
Man, I'm getting excited now!
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Grindylow - Jul 8, 2005 11:07 am (#1139 of 1448)
But I thought there were 3 girls....
:::::::runs to look at the picture again::::::::::::::
EDIT: I think the person behind Ron is Luna. I think she looks dark because she is in a shadow.....
I don't see Neville anywhere!!
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 11:15 am (#1140 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
There's someone standing behind them but it's unclear who it is. Maybe Cho.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2005 11:21 am (#1141 of 1448)
The Dark Mark is scary. Death Eaters used to send it up when they killed someone. I think it is Ron, Hermione, Ginny and Neville on the cover. Neville is a "round faced boy". I think the face in the back is him. He is always around. This is really exciting! LPO
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Betelgeuse Black - Jul 8, 2005 11:40 am (#1142 of 1448)
Looks to me like a crowd of students are looking up at the dark mark. Only Ron & Hermione are really clearly drawn (and look how close together they are!) The others are fuzzier until they look like dark shadows in the background.
Off to the 'ship thread! Betelgeuse
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 11:53 am (#1143 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Only Ron & Hermione are really clearly drawn (and look how close together they are!)
That's what I was thinking, Betelgeuse!
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 8, 2005 1:06 pm (#1144 of 1448)
Hi,
The most disturbing thing to me is the Dark Mark itself. DEs use it to signify a murder. The good part is that Harry, Hermione, Ginny and Ron (I assume it's those four) are alive and can see it. The bad part is that they are looking at the Dark Mark! EEK!
Accio! Half-Blood Prince!
Thanks
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Reading muggle - Jul 8, 2005 1:49 pm (#1145 of 1448)
Same here, Joanne, the Dark Mark at Hogwarts, that draws my attention. Who would conjure "Morsmordre" at Hogwarts? Are there death eaters on the school grounds?
I wonder if we will see any of the back-cover text before the book is released?
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popkin - Jul 8, 2005 3:00 pm (#1146 of 1448)
mother
My husband thinks the crowd looks as if they are in the pensieve scene that Dumbledore and Harry are looking at on the front cover. The green is kind of swirling around them. I think it looks like either an Asian or a black person behind Ron, so I'm thinking it's either Cho or Dean Thomas.
Do you suppose the synopsis on the cover gives away so much of the plot that it would spoil the book? Why don't they let us read it?
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GryffEndora - Jul 8, 2005 3:05 pm (#1147 of 1448)
Our heads could do with filling with some interesting stuff, for now they're bare and full of air, dead flies and bits of fluff
popkin - Do you suppose the synopsis on the cover gives away so much of the plot that it would spoil the book? Why don't they let us read it?
The synopsis on the OotP cover told about Ron making the Quidditch team, and Harry having to help him a lot (if I remember correctly). I remember being shocked that a detail this important was just out there. It wouldn't surprise me if some important detail is is on the book jacket again, although as I'm looking at the back of the paperback edition I see that they changed it, so maybe that won't happen again.
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bella - Jul 8, 2005 3:21 pm (#1148 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I don't see the point in putting a plot summary on the back cover at all if it is going to ruin the book for everyone. It's frusterating knowing its there and we can't read it.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2005 3:22 pm (#1149 of 1448)
I wouldn't mind reading it. Speculating on it will help pass the time. LPO
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Hem Hem - Jul 8, 2005 3:46 pm (#1150 of 1448)
With OotP, there were certainly "spoilerish" details in the book summary, and they were public a couple of months before the book was released. But I never felt bad about being "spoiled" with the jacket text because there would be no doubt that I'd have read it before reading the book anyways.
If the book summary is too detailed to be revealed yet, it won't help me much. I would never have the self-control to avoid reading it for more than a moment after the book is in my hands.
Hi everybody! I figure I'm sort of back, a little... probably I'll be here more once HBP is out!
My year was fantastic, and I'm home again this summer.
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Elanor- Hufflepuff Prefect
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HP6: the Half Blood Prince (Post 1151 to 1200)
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Liz Mann - Jul 8, 2005 3:58 pm (#1151 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Hem Hem! Great to see you!
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2005 4:40 pm (#1152 of 1448)
I think it looks like either an Asian or a black person behind Ron
I just thought it looked like a guy in the shadows ... no long hair was framing the face as there was with the two who are clearly girls (Hermione and Ginny, probably). I thought it might be Neville ...
Solitaire
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Penny Lane. - Jul 8, 2005 4:50 pm (#1153 of 1448)
Here's a horrifying thought what if the Dark Mark is over HAGRID's hut? Everyone was speculation on his death for book 5, and he would be one of the first targeted, as he's a half-breed.
Please tell me that I forgot about some quote of JKR's somewhere..
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2005 5:04 pm (#1154 of 1448)
IF what is on the back is a continuation of the front cover picture--someone speculated that it might be--could the Dark Mark be part of a memory from a Pensieve ... Harry's, perhaps?
Could it be a Pensieve memory from that night at the QWC? Just making some wild guesses ...
Solitaire
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Hermy - Jul 8, 2005 6:20 pm (#1155 of 1448)
Hi all,
Sorry to get everyone excited the other day. I was on TLC (text only) and noticed they had a link stating it was a cover of the book including the book summary /spoiler warnings. I immediately came over here to see if anyone had referenced a post to it. I was debating whether I wanted to really see it or not but wanted to let everyone know about the link.
I hope this next week goes by really fast.
Waiting on HBP - Hermy
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 8, 2005 6:46 pm (#1156 of 1448)
Was Neville at the QWC two years ago? I do not recall him being present when the Dark Mark was sent into the air.
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Mediwitch - Jul 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#1157 of 1448)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
No, Neville was not at the QWC. He said he really wanted to go but his Gran wouldn't buy tickets.
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Star Crossed - Jul 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#1158 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
You're correct, Nathan, Neville said his grandmother wouldn't get tickets.
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Finn BV - Jul 8, 2005 6:49 pm (#1159 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
No, Neville wasn't there. He said that his Gran couldn't get tickets. So I guess that rules out the possibility of a flashback. Also, the kids on the back cover looks much older than 14. They nearly look like college kids or grads. Good catch, Nathan.
Edit: Nooo! Cross-posted with Star Crossed. (Hey, that's a good one: Cross Posted with Star Crossed Posted with Star Posted with Cross Star Cross… ay! )
Edit 2: Noooooo! (again) And with Mediwitch, but her post was shifted to the other page. Ay, I am sloooooow!
Edit 3: LOL, Nathan, I guess you got your answer (and within two minutes, too ).
Edit 4: Mills, join in the fun!
Edit 5: Anybody else want to take a stab at it? **cracks up at his own joke**
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Amilia Smith - Jul 8, 2005 6:51 pm (#1160 of 1448)
No, he wasn't. Remember, all the boys in Harry's dorm (on the train? don't remember where, but I do remember the conversation) are reminiscing about the Quidditch World Cup, and Neville laments that he was unable to go as his grandmother does not do large sporting events.
I imagine someone will have the exact quote handy, but I am pretty sure Neville was not at the QWC.
Mills.
Edit: Not to worry, Finn. I crossposted with everybody!
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 8, 2005 6:55 pm (#1161 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
The back cover does look like a continuation of what is on the front, but, based on the dust jackets of the other five Scholastic editions, I don't think that means the cover art is showing us an actual scene from HBP. It is probably a composite of various parts of the book.
As for the forth person on the back, (s)he looks female to me. My best guess would be Cho, although I will be surprised if she has an important enough role in HBP to be featured on the cover.
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Star Crossed - Jul 8, 2005 6:57 pm (#1162 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Oooh, I hope that's not foreshadowing of everyone who suffers from Voldemort in HBP.
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2005 8:06 pm (#1163 of 1448)
Even if Neville wasn't at the QWC, that does not preclude him from seeing a memory of it in a Pensieve--if, indeed, that is what it was. Not being present at the actual events did not prevent Harry from seeing Trelawney's predictions, Karkaroff's hearing, or the hearings of Barty Jr. and the Lestranges in Dumbledore's Pensieve.
Solitaire
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Suspero - Jul 8, 2005 8:24 pm (#1164 of 1448)
Professor
Thanks for bringing the back cover pictures to attention. Looks to me as is the Deatheaters come to Hogwarts and it requires drastic measures for Dumbledore and Harry to deal with them. Does the "Dark Mark" mean that one of those on the back cover will die? The "one who remained faithful" going to show up inside Hogwarts?
Hurry midnight of the 15th/16th!
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 8, 2005 8:33 pm (#1165 of 1448)
I'd have to agree with Vlad about the composite of various parts of the books. Perhaps this means that the Dark Mark is not where it appears to be, but it occurs somewhere else in the book. Kind of like for the 4th book, the Goblet of Fire is shown on the back cover in the same scene as the Beauxbatons carriage, but they are never actually together in the book (I don't think...).
Sorry if the part about the Dark Mark is confusing; I'm trying to avoid spoilers, and I haven't figured out that white text thing yet... Perhaps I'll head over to the practice thread.
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Mrs. Sirius - Jul 8, 2005 10:12 pm (#1166 of 1448)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I am surprised so many people think that the front cover is the pensieve. I thought that it was some where else, I vaguely remember about it being described as "picture of Dumbledore and Harry in a 'glen".
I just pulled out my OOTP, the only words on the back cover are "Sequel to the #1 New York Times Bestseller" and the title. Wait that's on the Scholastic version. The Bloomsbury edition has 3 paragraphs on it. The first being a long passage from the book.
PS Welcome back Jackie you've been missed.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 8, 2005 10:27 pm (#1167 of 1448)
The picture of Dumbledore and Harry in a glen is the deluxe edition or something like that, I think.
Could the full cover be a memory of Godric's Hollow, maybe?
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haymoni - Jul 9, 2005 4:17 am (#1168 of 1448)
It could just be the artwork, but this Dark Mark seems to be made of stars. I had gotten the impression that the Mark was more of a gaseous thing - smoky or something.
It is definitely in the SHAPE of the Mark, but I wonder if it means the same thing - that someone has been killed - or is it just a warning?
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Gina R Snape - Jul 9, 2005 4:33 am (#1169 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I think that's just the artwork styling. And I do get the feeling it's a warning and not an actual murder. But that's just my hunch.
Penny, ooooh what a clever idea! You could be right.
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Ann - Jul 9, 2005 7:25 am (#1170 of 1448)
I don't quite see why we should post all this discussion in white. Is anyone not going to look at the cover? And why should our opinions about who people are be whited out? They're only spoilers if we know for sure, and we don't. But I'll try.
Okay, if the thing Harry and Dumbledore are looking into on the front cover is not a pensieve perhaps the reason they are looking at it is that they are conjuring the Dark Mark from it. After all, it looks like all the swirling stuff is coming out of the stone bowl. Although as someone said, it may all just be artistic convention.
If it is not, though, and if the Dark Mark means that someone at Hogwarts has been killed (and doesn't Mr. Weasley say at the QWC that that is when the DEs send them up? That is why everyone is so alarmed), that means that the person who is killed is not one of the people depicted on the back cover. (And I stand by my interpretation of Neville and Cho besides Hermione and Ron. They both look a lot like Grandpre's other representations of those two.)
Edited to fix font color and clarify my writing.
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Chemyst - Jul 9, 2005 8:03 am (#1171 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I think you are right about posting in white on this thread, Ann, because the title is HP6: The Half-Blood Prince and anyone who reads past the title should expect to see us discuss all we know. But when on the chat thread, I try to follow Denise's cue and post in white there.
The Pensieve is not used in conjuring the dark mark. The explanation in GF makes it quite clear that Barty Jr. had to have a wand. I also think we are done with the warnings and into the war, so a dark mark's appearance would be a sign someone had died. And I'm thinking probably rather early in the book.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 9, 2005 10:08 am (#1172 of 1448)
I agree that the artwork is not a spoiler.All we can do is speculate which is what we have been doing since finishing OOP.The OoP cover art on my book shows Harry on the front in what I now know is the room of doors in the MoM however,I would not have known that until after I read the book.The back of the book has Order members but I didn't know what the Order Of The Phoenix was so was no spoiler to me.I think this is great fun.
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2005 12:05 pm (#1173 of 1448)
The Pensieve may not be used to conjur the Dark Mark, but it would be used to look at a memory of an event (murder) where the Dark Mark was present. For example, if Harry is looking at what happened at Godric's Hollow that fateful night, surely the Dark Mark would have hung above the Potters' home. And if it had been shot up, wouldn't it then appear in any Pensieve memory of that event? Ditto if they happened to be looking at Harry's memory of the QWC the night Barty Jr. fired off the Dark Mark.
Solitaire
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Liz Mann - Jul 9, 2005 12:09 pm (#1174 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I don't think Voldemort would have gotten the chance to conjure the Dark Mark that night. He would have done it after he'd killed everyone, I suppose, and we know that when he attempted to kill Harry he was defeated.
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2005 12:17 pm (#1175 of 1448)
But suppose some other DE was there ... someone who could have conjured it?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 9, 2005 2:13 pm (#1176 of 1448)
In terms of Death Eaters who could have conjured the Dark Mark I wonder if it it is a complex spell because, depending on the complexity of the spell I would agrue that if the spell which creates the Dark Mark is complicated that there are a couple of Death Eaters who could possibly be eliminated as being the creator of the Dark Mark.
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vball man - Jul 9, 2005 6:19 pm (#1177 of 1448)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Maybe this has been said, but...
They conjured the dark mark when they killed.
Perhaps it is Dumbledore's death that they are marking.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 9, 2005 8:08 pm (#1178 of 1448)
Ohh, I do hope your wrong.
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2005 8:12 pm (#1179 of 1448)
I'm still hoping for just a memory from the Pensieve!
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Hollywand - Jul 9, 2005 10:01 pm (#1180 of 1448)
Gryffindor
We know by now that Jo will be hosting a select group of children /cub reporters on the evening of the release of HBP within the walls of a castle. Doesn't it seem plausible that the storyline of the book itself will involve the seige of Hogwarts castle? I think it's a brilliant way to bring together the fantasy and reality in an exquisite, unforgettable way for the kids. So, the Dark Mark over the castle on the cover may imply the seige. How fun.
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haymoni - Jul 10, 2005 4:53 am (#1181 of 1448)
I stand by my earlier theory that there will be a battle in the Great Hall that involves a food fight with lots of chicken legs.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 10, 2005 5:59 am (#1182 of 1448)
Lol Haymoni.
Hollywand.I do think there will be a seige at Hogwarts.I think DE will gain access through the tunnels and the RoR will come into play again,to "provide" for our kids.
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Ann - Jul 10, 2005 7:43 am (#1183 of 1448)
An interesting tie-in, Hollywand, about the conference and the book's plot.
I was also struck by the fact that someone mentioned that Order of the Phoenix members appear on the cover of the US edition of HP5; the Goblet is on HP4, the Prisoner is on HP3, and the Chamber is on HP 2. I don't think the Philosopher's Stone is on HP1, but it may be there somewhere (I've not got my books at hand.) Surely Dumbledore's prominence on the covers of all editions of HP6 suggests that he has to be the Half-Blood Prince. This has probably been pointed out before, but I've not been able to read all the back posts, since I've only got a dial-up connection (and a rather wobbly one) at the moment.
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Chemyst - Jul 10, 2005 10:48 am (#1184 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
We know by now that Jo will be hosting a select group of children /cub reporters [...] I think it's a brilliant way to bring together the fantasy and reality in an exquisite, unforgettable way for the kids. So, the Dark Mark over the castle... - Hollywand
Do you think they'll have a surprise laser show too?
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Hollywand - Jul 10, 2005 11:49 am (#1185 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Great suggestion, Chemyst. They are having a projection, so a laser surprise. Wow. Makes ya wanna be one of those lucky tykes! On location with the Drama Queen Extraoridinaire.
Since she chose "cub reporters" methinks Luna Lovegood and the Quibbler are in for a bit of the story.
Off to have a large slice of Mr. Fudge's specialty Goblin pies. MMMM.
I'm off to cast aspersions on Ginevra Weasley as alcohol gone bad on the Alchemy thread. Vinegar, acid, the water that burns; Codswallop, I say.
I need a Shrieking Shack location this last week so I can chew up some serious livingroom furniture.
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Czarina II - Jul 10, 2005 3:14 pm (#1186 of 1448)
Maybe this has been discussed over the course of the past 100 posts (in which case, I would greatly appreciate being reminded of it), but I was wondering what the policy was for this site in regards to discussing HBP after its release next weekend. I was not a member of this forum when OoP was released. Do we have a no-spoiler policy at all? Will there be a thread set up as a "spoiler zone"? Will members who have not yet read the book have to read the forum at their own risk? Any blackouts? (As in, no posting spoilers before a certain date and time.) I am curious, and I think most of us would benefit from an executive decision on the matter.
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Denise P. - Jul 10, 2005 5:46 pm (#1187 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Czarina, don't worry. Kip will be posting the exact guidelines regarding HBP once it is closer to the release date. There will be plenty of time for people to read and understand the guidelines prior to HBP.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2005 6:17 pm (#1188 of 1448)
You'd better not even go online if you don't want to read spoilers. All I had to do last time was boot up my computer, and I saw a spoiler on the front page! Someone had logged into my favorite teacher chatroom--which has nothing to do with HP at all--as ... well, in case someone still hasn't read OotP, I won't say.
I was a brand new HP fan, having read the first four books--for the first time!--only about two weeks before OotP was released. Need I say how angry I was? I would not even speak to the chatter in question for months!
If you frequent any other chatrooms, boards, etc., beware ... most are not as nice as the denizens of the Forum--or as carefully monitored--when it comes to spoilers. There will always be some bozo who wants to spoil everyone else's read.
Solitaire
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 10, 2005 7:07 pm (#1189 of 1448)
Someone had logged into my favorite teacher chatroom--which has nothing to do with HP at all--as ... well, in case someone still hasn't read OotP, I won't say.
Oh go on, Solitaire, I'm pretty sure everyone has at least read on the lexicon what happens in OotP. I can't figure out what they would have logged in as. It'll probably be really obvious after you say it, but nothing is coming to mind...
But anyway, I know what you mean about spoilers. Two days after OotP was released, this kid (whom I didn't like to begin with) ran into a band practice I was at and yelled, "Sirius Black DIED!!!" Luckily, I had sat at home doing nothing but reading the day after it came out, so I had already finished the book. But still, he definitely upset quite a few people that day. The lesson? You're not safe from spoilers unless you stay holed up in your home with no human interaction until you've finished the book (which is my plan ).
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bella - Jul 10, 2005 8:25 pm (#1190 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I personally don't mind most spoilers all that much. That's not to say that I go looking for them, but if I happen to come across something I always find it sort of interesting to find out exactly how something happens. Knowing one or two things in a six or seven hundred page book still leaves alot unsaid.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2005 10:17 pm (#1191 of 1448)
Actually, Herm, you are close. He signed in as SiriusBlackDies! in one chatroom and R.I.P.SiriusBlack on the board. Needless to say, many of us were very upset. He did this about 10 hours after the books were released here, so very few of us were finished reading yet.
As to not having read OotP, I know that there are at least a few other brand new, first-time Harry readers ... because I just converted a few of them before the school year was over! So they have not yet read GoF or OotP ... Honestly!
Solitaire
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 11, 2005 9:20 am (#1192 of 1448)
Hi,
On the other hand, I doubt that anything could happen that we haven't at least touched upon. We've speculated on every death, on new characters and on new relationships. We are eager fans.
When it actually occurs, we'll say, "AHA! So-and-so said something about this. And this other person talked about that!"
Yet, I suspect that no matter how well we've explored the possibilities, JKR will surprise us. In the end, we'll all be saying, "OOH! I should have seen that one coming." A whole bunch of us will also be saying, "Wow! I didn't see that one coming at all!"
Regardless, we'll all be saying, "I can't wait for Number 7!"
Thanks,
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Gina R Snape - Jul 11, 2005 9:49 am (#1193 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
OMG OMG OMG. Someone just emailed me with what looks like an accurate list of the chapter titles, along with info on who dies and who is the HbP. I could only look at the chapter titles before I stopped reading...with more restraint than I've ever shown in my LIFE.
Anyway, I know we'd be at serious risk if I posted them here. But if anyone is curious (I've nooo idea if the list is for real, but someone claims to have the book, a library worker), you can email me or YIM me privately (if you have my YIM ID) and I'll tell you what they said were the chapter titles. That is, if it's ok with the Lex here. Otherwise, just delete this post.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 11, 2005 10:00 am (#1194 of 1448)
I'd believe that it's probably true if the chapter titles seemed likely. Does anyone know how many copies were actually sold in that store in Canada? It does make me mad, though, when people break the rules to get/sell the book early. We are all impatient, but that is no reason to deliberately break the trust of publishers and JKR herself. Half the fun is the big build-up until midnight on the release date anyway!
Edit: I hope you don't misinterpret what I mean, Gina. I am not at all trying to accuse you because you have the information, but rather the people who sold the books when they knew they shouldn't.
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Denise P. - Jul 11, 2005 10:09 am (#1195 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Gina, as long as nothing is actually posted here from that (real or not), there is no problem. People are free to email you if they like.
For those interested, just click on Gina's name to see her email address.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 11, 2005 10:10 am (#1196 of 1448)
Hi,
I would think that there would be severe financial and perhaps even legal problems for anyone that did break into a batch of HP&H-BP. The court injunction that stopped anyone from divulging anything about the book applies only to the United Kingdom. However, I would ask if there is some legal extension of that order into the Commonwealth?
Further, bookstores are under enormous financial and contractual controls. Opening the sealed containers of books before midnight is a civil offense, punishable by huge fines and loss of rights to sell the publisher's books in the future. No merchant would knowingly tempt such a fate, knowing full well that no publisher would ever deal with him ever again.
So, if this is real, then someone is in BIG trouble. I hope they get caught and punished to the full extent of the law.
Thanks,
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Gina R Snape - Jul 11, 2005 10:14 am (#1197 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Sorry, I edited my post. Apparentely it was a library worker, who could most definitely get fired if their identity was revealed.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 11, 2005 10:28 am (#1198 of 1448)
The court injunction that stopped anyone from divulging anything about the book applies only to the United Kingdom.
Joanne, TLC reported on July 10th there was another court injunction in Canada because some shop had sold the book early.
Before this, Raincoast suffered a breach of the on-sale retail embargo date at just one location... Raincoast also announced that it would reward the small number of consumers who had inadvertently purchased at the store in question an early copy of the book, if they returned their copy to Raincoast immediately.
I would post a link, but that is beyond my forum skills... Sorry!
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Gina R Snape - Jul 11, 2005 10:31 am (#1199 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
That article is on TLC, for anyone who wants to read it.
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Liz Mann - Jul 11, 2005 2:46 pm (#1200 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I can't believe some people are so horrible and blatent that they want to spoil things for everyone. I mean, when it emerged that a certain character (who shall remain unnamed for those who haven't heard) has been receiving a sudden surge of bets to be the one who dies from the town where the book was being printed, the British tabloid The Sun had it splashed across the front page: "So-and-so dies!" Or something like that, anyway. Not even people who have the will power to not read the article can get away from knowing! They walk by a news stand and there it is! Honestly, J.K. should take out an inquest about things like that, too.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
Hem Hem! Great to see you!
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2005 4:40 pm (#1152 of 1448)
I think it looks like either an Asian or a black person behind Ron
I just thought it looked like a guy in the shadows ... no long hair was framing the face as there was with the two who are clearly girls (Hermione and Ginny, probably). I thought it might be Neville ...
Solitaire
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Penny Lane. - Jul 8, 2005 4:50 pm (#1153 of 1448)
Here's a horrifying thought what if the Dark Mark is over HAGRID's hut? Everyone was speculation on his death for book 5, and he would be one of the first targeted, as he's a half-breed.
Please tell me that I forgot about some quote of JKR's somewhere..
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2005 5:04 pm (#1154 of 1448)
IF what is on the back is a continuation of the front cover picture--someone speculated that it might be--could the Dark Mark be part of a memory from a Pensieve ... Harry's, perhaps?
Could it be a Pensieve memory from that night at the QWC? Just making some wild guesses ...
Solitaire
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Hermy - Jul 8, 2005 6:20 pm (#1155 of 1448)
Hi all,
Sorry to get everyone excited the other day. I was on TLC (text only) and noticed they had a link stating it was a cover of the book including the book summary /spoiler warnings. I immediately came over here to see if anyone had referenced a post to it. I was debating whether I wanted to really see it or not but wanted to let everyone know about the link.
I hope this next week goes by really fast.
Waiting on HBP - Hermy
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 8, 2005 6:46 pm (#1156 of 1448)
Was Neville at the QWC two years ago? I do not recall him being present when the Dark Mark was sent into the air.
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Mediwitch - Jul 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#1157 of 1448)
"We could have all been killed-- or worse, expelled!"
No, Neville was not at the QWC. He said he really wanted to go but his Gran wouldn't buy tickets.
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Star Crossed - Jul 8, 2005 6:48 pm (#1158 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
You're correct, Nathan, Neville said his grandmother wouldn't get tickets.
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Finn BV - Jul 8, 2005 6:49 pm (#1159 of 1448)
Me kayaking, Niagara River, August 2006. I have been likened to Reepicheep in this photo.
No, Neville wasn't there. He said that his Gran couldn't get tickets. So I guess that rules out the possibility of a flashback. Also, the kids on the back cover looks much older than 14. They nearly look like college kids or grads. Good catch, Nathan.
Edit: Nooo! Cross-posted with Star Crossed. (Hey, that's a good one: Cross Posted with Star Crossed Posted with Star Posted with Cross Star Cross… ay! )
Edit 2: Noooooo! (again) And with Mediwitch, but her post was shifted to the other page. Ay, I am sloooooow!
Edit 3: LOL, Nathan, I guess you got your answer (and within two minutes, too ).
Edit 4: Mills, join in the fun!
Edit 5: Anybody else want to take a stab at it? **cracks up at his own joke**
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Amilia Smith - Jul 8, 2005 6:51 pm (#1160 of 1448)
No, he wasn't. Remember, all the boys in Harry's dorm (on the train? don't remember where, but I do remember the conversation) are reminiscing about the Quidditch World Cup, and Neville laments that he was unable to go as his grandmother does not do large sporting events.
I imagine someone will have the exact quote handy, but I am pretty sure Neville was not at the QWC.
Mills.
Edit: Not to worry, Finn. I crossposted with everybody!
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I Am Used Vlad - Jul 8, 2005 6:55 pm (#1161 of 1448)
I Am Almighty!
The back cover does look like a continuation of what is on the front, but, based on the dust jackets of the other five Scholastic editions, I don't think that means the cover art is showing us an actual scene from HBP. It is probably a composite of various parts of the book.
As for the forth person on the back, (s)he looks female to me. My best guess would be Cho, although I will be surprised if she has an important enough role in HBP to be featured on the cover.
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Star Crossed - Jul 8, 2005 6:57 pm (#1162 of 1448)
Ever wonder what happened while the Marauders were at Hogwarts? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Oooh, I hope that's not foreshadowing of everyone who suffers from Voldemort in HBP.
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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2005 8:06 pm (#1163 of 1448)
Even if Neville wasn't at the QWC, that does not preclude him from seeing a memory of it in a Pensieve--if, indeed, that is what it was. Not being present at the actual events did not prevent Harry from seeing Trelawney's predictions, Karkaroff's hearing, or the hearings of Barty Jr. and the Lestranges in Dumbledore's Pensieve.
Solitaire
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Suspero - Jul 8, 2005 8:24 pm (#1164 of 1448)
Professor
Thanks for bringing the back cover pictures to attention. Looks to me as is the Deatheaters come to Hogwarts and it requires drastic measures for Dumbledore and Harry to deal with them. Does the "Dark Mark" mean that one of those on the back cover will die? The "one who remained faithful" going to show up inside Hogwarts?
Hurry midnight of the 15th/16th!
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 8, 2005 8:33 pm (#1165 of 1448)
I'd have to agree with Vlad about the composite of various parts of the books. Perhaps this means that the Dark Mark is not where it appears to be, but it occurs somewhere else in the book. Kind of like for the 4th book, the Goblet of Fire is shown on the back cover in the same scene as the Beauxbatons carriage, but they are never actually together in the book (I don't think...).
Sorry if the part about the Dark Mark is confusing; I'm trying to avoid spoilers, and I haven't figured out that white text thing yet... Perhaps I'll head over to the practice thread.
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Mrs. Sirius - Jul 8, 2005 10:12 pm (#1166 of 1448)
Mom of 4 in serious lurker mode.
I am surprised so many people think that the front cover is the pensieve. I thought that it was some where else, I vaguely remember about it being described as "picture of Dumbledore and Harry in a 'glen".
I just pulled out my OOTP, the only words on the back cover are "Sequel to the #1 New York Times Bestseller" and the title. Wait that's on the Scholastic version. The Bloomsbury edition has 3 paragraphs on it. The first being a long passage from the book.
PS Welcome back Jackie you've been missed.
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Weeny Owl - Jul 8, 2005 10:27 pm (#1167 of 1448)
The picture of Dumbledore and Harry in a glen is the deluxe edition or something like that, I think.
Could the full cover be a memory of Godric's Hollow, maybe?
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haymoni - Jul 9, 2005 4:17 am (#1168 of 1448)
It could just be the artwork, but this Dark Mark seems to be made of stars. I had gotten the impression that the Mark was more of a gaseous thing - smoky or something.
It is definitely in the SHAPE of the Mark, but I wonder if it means the same thing - that someone has been killed - or is it just a warning?
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Gina R Snape - Jul 9, 2005 4:33 am (#1169 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
I think that's just the artwork styling. And I do get the feeling it's a warning and not an actual murder. But that's just my hunch.
Penny, ooooh what a clever idea! You could be right.
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Ann - Jul 9, 2005 7:25 am (#1170 of 1448)
I don't quite see why we should post all this discussion in white. Is anyone not going to look at the cover? And why should our opinions about who people are be whited out? They're only spoilers if we know for sure, and we don't. But I'll try.
Okay, if the thing Harry and Dumbledore are looking into on the front cover is not a pensieve perhaps the reason they are looking at it is that they are conjuring the Dark Mark from it. After all, it looks like all the swirling stuff is coming out of the stone bowl. Although as someone said, it may all just be artistic convention.
If it is not, though, and if the Dark Mark means that someone at Hogwarts has been killed (and doesn't Mr. Weasley say at the QWC that that is when the DEs send them up? That is why everyone is so alarmed), that means that the person who is killed is not one of the people depicted on the back cover. (And I stand by my interpretation of Neville and Cho besides Hermione and Ron. They both look a lot like Grandpre's other representations of those two.)
Edited to fix font color and clarify my writing.
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Chemyst - Jul 9, 2005 8:03 am (#1171 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
I think you are right about posting in white on this thread, Ann, because the title is HP6: The Half-Blood Prince and anyone who reads past the title should expect to see us discuss all we know. But when on the chat thread, I try to follow Denise's cue and post in white there.
The Pensieve is not used in conjuring the dark mark. The explanation in GF makes it quite clear that Barty Jr. had to have a wand. I also think we are done with the warnings and into the war, so a dark mark's appearance would be a sign someone had died. And I'm thinking probably rather early in the book.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 9, 2005 10:08 am (#1172 of 1448)
I agree that the artwork is not a spoiler.All we can do is speculate which is what we have been doing since finishing OOP.The OoP cover art on my book shows Harry on the front in what I now know is the room of doors in the MoM however,I would not have known that until after I read the book.The back of the book has Order members but I didn't know what the Order Of The Phoenix was so was no spoiler to me.I think this is great fun.
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2005 12:05 pm (#1173 of 1448)
The Pensieve may not be used to conjur the Dark Mark, but it would be used to look at a memory of an event (murder) where the Dark Mark was present. For example, if Harry is looking at what happened at Godric's Hollow that fateful night, surely the Dark Mark would have hung above the Potters' home. And if it had been shot up, wouldn't it then appear in any Pensieve memory of that event? Ditto if they happened to be looking at Harry's memory of the QWC the night Barty Jr. fired off the Dark Mark.
Solitaire
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Liz Mann - Jul 9, 2005 12:09 pm (#1174 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I don't think Voldemort would have gotten the chance to conjure the Dark Mark that night. He would have done it after he'd killed everyone, I suppose, and we know that when he attempted to kill Harry he was defeated.
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2005 12:17 pm (#1175 of 1448)
But suppose some other DE was there ... someone who could have conjured it?
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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 9, 2005 2:13 pm (#1176 of 1448)
In terms of Death Eaters who could have conjured the Dark Mark I wonder if it it is a complex spell because, depending on the complexity of the spell I would agrue that if the spell which creates the Dark Mark is complicated that there are a couple of Death Eaters who could possibly be eliminated as being the creator of the Dark Mark.
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vball man - Jul 9, 2005 6:19 pm (#1177 of 1448)
He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot loose. - Jim Elliot
Maybe this has been said, but...
They conjured the dark mark when they killed.
Perhaps it is Dumbledore's death that they are marking.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 9, 2005 8:08 pm (#1178 of 1448)
Ohh, I do hope your wrong.
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Solitaire - Jul 9, 2005 8:12 pm (#1179 of 1448)
I'm still hoping for just a memory from the Pensieve!
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Hollywand - Jul 9, 2005 10:01 pm (#1180 of 1448)
Gryffindor
We know by now that Jo will be hosting a select group of children /cub reporters on the evening of the release of HBP within the walls of a castle. Doesn't it seem plausible that the storyline of the book itself will involve the seige of Hogwarts castle? I think it's a brilliant way to bring together the fantasy and reality in an exquisite, unforgettable way for the kids. So, the Dark Mark over the castle on the cover may imply the seige. How fun.
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haymoni - Jul 10, 2005 4:53 am (#1181 of 1448)
I stand by my earlier theory that there will be a battle in the Great Hall that involves a food fight with lots of chicken legs.
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Madame Pomfrey - Jul 10, 2005 5:59 am (#1182 of 1448)
Lol Haymoni.
Hollywand.I do think there will be a seige at Hogwarts.I think DE will gain access through the tunnels and the RoR will come into play again,to "provide" for our kids.
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Ann - Jul 10, 2005 7:43 am (#1183 of 1448)
An interesting tie-in, Hollywand, about the conference and the book's plot.
I was also struck by the fact that someone mentioned that Order of the Phoenix members appear on the cover of the US edition of HP5; the Goblet is on HP4, the Prisoner is on HP3, and the Chamber is on HP 2. I don't think the Philosopher's Stone is on HP1, but it may be there somewhere (I've not got my books at hand.) Surely Dumbledore's prominence on the covers of all editions of HP6 suggests that he has to be the Half-Blood Prince. This has probably been pointed out before, but I've not been able to read all the back posts, since I've only got a dial-up connection (and a rather wobbly one) at the moment.
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Chemyst - Jul 10, 2005 10:48 am (#1184 of 1448)
"Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up." A.A. Milne
We know by now that Jo will be hosting a select group of children /cub reporters [...] I think it's a brilliant way to bring together the fantasy and reality in an exquisite, unforgettable way for the kids. So, the Dark Mark over the castle... - Hollywand
Do you think they'll have a surprise laser show too?
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Hollywand - Jul 10, 2005 11:49 am (#1185 of 1448)
Gryffindor
Great suggestion, Chemyst. They are having a projection, so a laser surprise. Wow. Makes ya wanna be one of those lucky tykes! On location with the Drama Queen Extraoridinaire.
Since she chose "cub reporters" methinks Luna Lovegood and the Quibbler are in for a bit of the story.
Off to have a large slice of Mr. Fudge's specialty Goblin pies. MMMM.
I'm off to cast aspersions on Ginevra Weasley as alcohol gone bad on the Alchemy thread. Vinegar, acid, the water that burns; Codswallop, I say.
I need a Shrieking Shack location this last week so I can chew up some serious livingroom furniture.
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Czarina II - Jul 10, 2005 3:14 pm (#1186 of 1448)
Maybe this has been discussed over the course of the past 100 posts (in which case, I would greatly appreciate being reminded of it), but I was wondering what the policy was for this site in regards to discussing HBP after its release next weekend. I was not a member of this forum when OoP was released. Do we have a no-spoiler policy at all? Will there be a thread set up as a "spoiler zone"? Will members who have not yet read the book have to read the forum at their own risk? Any blackouts? (As in, no posting spoilers before a certain date and time.) I am curious, and I think most of us would benefit from an executive decision on the matter.
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Denise P. - Jul 10, 2005 5:46 pm (#1187 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Czarina, don't worry. Kip will be posting the exact guidelines regarding HBP once it is closer to the release date. There will be plenty of time for people to read and understand the guidelines prior to HBP.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2005 6:17 pm (#1188 of 1448)
You'd better not even go online if you don't want to read spoilers. All I had to do last time was boot up my computer, and I saw a spoiler on the front page! Someone had logged into my favorite teacher chatroom--which has nothing to do with HP at all--as ... well, in case someone still hasn't read OotP, I won't say.
I was a brand new HP fan, having read the first four books--for the first time!--only about two weeks before OotP was released. Need I say how angry I was? I would not even speak to the chatter in question for months!
If you frequent any other chatrooms, boards, etc., beware ... most are not as nice as the denizens of the Forum--or as carefully monitored--when it comes to spoilers. There will always be some bozo who wants to spoil everyone else's read.
Solitaire
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 10, 2005 7:07 pm (#1189 of 1448)
Someone had logged into my favorite teacher chatroom--which has nothing to do with HP at all--as ... well, in case someone still hasn't read OotP, I won't say.
Oh go on, Solitaire, I'm pretty sure everyone has at least read on the lexicon what happens in OotP. I can't figure out what they would have logged in as. It'll probably be really obvious after you say it, but nothing is coming to mind...
But anyway, I know what you mean about spoilers. Two days after OotP was released, this kid (whom I didn't like to begin with) ran into a band practice I was at and yelled, "Sirius Black DIED!!!" Luckily, I had sat at home doing nothing but reading the day after it came out, so I had already finished the book. But still, he definitely upset quite a few people that day. The lesson? You're not safe from spoilers unless you stay holed up in your home with no human interaction until you've finished the book (which is my plan ).
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bella - Jul 10, 2005 8:25 pm (#1190 of 1448)
I've always said there was an @ssh*le born every minute, but I think I need to revise that estimate upwards.
I personally don't mind most spoilers all that much. That's not to say that I go looking for them, but if I happen to come across something I always find it sort of interesting to find out exactly how something happens. Knowing one or two things in a six or seven hundred page book still leaves alot unsaid.
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Solitaire - Jul 10, 2005 10:17 pm (#1191 of 1448)
Actually, Herm, you are close. He signed in as SiriusBlackDies! in one chatroom and R.I.P.SiriusBlack on the board. Needless to say, many of us were very upset. He did this about 10 hours after the books were released here, so very few of us were finished reading yet.
As to not having read OotP, I know that there are at least a few other brand new, first-time Harry readers ... because I just converted a few of them before the school year was over! So they have not yet read GoF or OotP ... Honestly!
Solitaire
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 11, 2005 9:20 am (#1192 of 1448)
Hi,
On the other hand, I doubt that anything could happen that we haven't at least touched upon. We've speculated on every death, on new characters and on new relationships. We are eager fans.
When it actually occurs, we'll say, "AHA! So-and-so said something about this. And this other person talked about that!"
Yet, I suspect that no matter how well we've explored the possibilities, JKR will surprise us. In the end, we'll all be saying, "OOH! I should have seen that one coming." A whole bunch of us will also be saying, "Wow! I didn't see that one coming at all!"
Regardless, we'll all be saying, "I can't wait for Number 7!"
Thanks,
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Gina R Snape - Jul 11, 2005 9:49 am (#1193 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
OMG OMG OMG. Someone just emailed me with what looks like an accurate list of the chapter titles, along with info on who dies and who is the HbP. I could only look at the chapter titles before I stopped reading...with more restraint than I've ever shown in my LIFE.
Anyway, I know we'd be at serious risk if I posted them here. But if anyone is curious (I've nooo idea if the list is for real, but someone claims to have the book, a library worker), you can email me or YIM me privately (if you have my YIM ID) and I'll tell you what they said were the chapter titles. That is, if it's ok with the Lex here. Otherwise, just delete this post.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 11, 2005 10:00 am (#1194 of 1448)
I'd believe that it's probably true if the chapter titles seemed likely. Does anyone know how many copies were actually sold in that store in Canada? It does make me mad, though, when people break the rules to get/sell the book early. We are all impatient, but that is no reason to deliberately break the trust of publishers and JKR herself. Half the fun is the big build-up until midnight on the release date anyway!
Edit: I hope you don't misinterpret what I mean, Gina. I am not at all trying to accuse you because you have the information, but rather the people who sold the books when they knew they shouldn't.
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Denise P. - Jul 11, 2005 10:09 am (#1195 of 1448)
Ravenclaw Pony
Gina, as long as nothing is actually posted here from that (real or not), there is no problem. People are free to email you if they like.
For those interested, just click on Gina's name to see her email address.
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Joanne R. Reid - Jul 11, 2005 10:10 am (#1196 of 1448)
Hi,
I would think that there would be severe financial and perhaps even legal problems for anyone that did break into a batch of HP&H-BP. The court injunction that stopped anyone from divulging anything about the book applies only to the United Kingdom. However, I would ask if there is some legal extension of that order into the Commonwealth?
Further, bookstores are under enormous financial and contractual controls. Opening the sealed containers of books before midnight is a civil offense, punishable by huge fines and loss of rights to sell the publisher's books in the future. No merchant would knowingly tempt such a fate, knowing full well that no publisher would ever deal with him ever again.
So, if this is real, then someone is in BIG trouble. I hope they get caught and punished to the full extent of the law.
Thanks,
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Gina R Snape - Jul 11, 2005 10:14 am (#1197 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
Sorry, I edited my post. Apparentely it was a library worker, who could most definitely get fired if their identity was revealed.
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Herm-own-ninny Weezly - Jul 11, 2005 10:28 am (#1198 of 1448)
The court injunction that stopped anyone from divulging anything about the book applies only to the United Kingdom.
Joanne, TLC reported on July 10th there was another court injunction in Canada because some shop had sold the book early.
Before this, Raincoast suffered a breach of the on-sale retail embargo date at just one location... Raincoast also announced that it would reward the small number of consumers who had inadvertently purchased at the store in question an early copy of the book, if they returned their copy to Raincoast immediately.
I would post a link, but that is beyond my forum skills... Sorry!
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Gina R Snape - Jul 11, 2005 10:31 am (#1199 of 1448)
"The world isn't split into good people and death eaters"
That article is on TLC, for anyone who wants to read it.
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Liz Mann - Jul 11, 2005 2:46 pm (#1200 of 1448)
Join us for the Philosopher's Stone Watch-A-Long
I can't believe some people are so horrible and blatent that they want to spoil things for everyone. I mean, when it emerged that a certain character (who shall remain unnamed for those who haven't heard) has been receiving a sudden surge of bets to be the one who dies from the town where the book was being printed, the British tabloid The Sun had it splashed across the front page: "So-and-so dies!" Or something like that, anyway. Not even people who have the will power to not read the article can get away from knowing! They walk by a news stand and there it is! Honestly, J.K. should take out an inquest about things like that, too.
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