Azkaban Prison

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Azkaban Prison
Jessalynn Quirky - Nov 13, 2004 8:32 pm Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 1:23 pm

This is a thread to talk about Azkaban prison. We know that Sirius escaped from Azkaban by turning into a dog, and the Death Eaters were all put there after being caught in the Department of Mysteries at the end of OOTP. We also know that it is guarded by dementors.

Questions: How big is Azkaban and how many prisoners can it hold? How many dementors guard it? Is Azkaban a safe place to put the dementors and prisoners in at all? How did the other DEs escape in OOTP if they weren't Animagus? Will Azkaban be used in the 6th and 7th books?

I hope this thread isn't put in the muncher so we can talk about this, especially how the DEs escaped.

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haymoni - Nov 13, 2004 7:57 pm (#1 of 137)

I figured the Dementors let them escape. Although, why were the DE's the only prisoners to escape? I wonder who else is in Azkaban?

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Ms Amanda - Nov 13, 2004 8:05 pm (#2 of 137)

Wouldn't it be more than they let them escape? Dementors drive people insane, don't they? The only reason Sirius isn't crazy is because he didn't do anything wrong. The DEs did horrible things and lived horrible things. The dementors would force them to relive the experiences over and over. So, when the DEs escape, the dementors probably would have had to let in someone to help them. Or maybe the dementors left Azkaban and the prisoners gradually regained their sanity?

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haymoni - Nov 13, 2004 8:07 pm (#3 of 137)

I figured the dementors unlocked their cells and left the DEs alone. They would gradually come to their senses and take off.

Who is guarding the prison now? Are there still dementors there or have they all left to serve Voldy?

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Solitaire - Nov 13, 2004 11:33 pm (#4 of 137)

On page 851 of OotP (US ed.), Draco tells Harry: "The Dementors have left Azkaban ... Dad and the others'll be out in no time ..."

I have no idea who is guarding the prison just now, but back in GoF (p. 707, US ed.) Dumbledore tells Fudge: "Voldemort has returned. If you accept that fact straightaway, Fudge, and take the necessary measures, we may still be able to save the situation. The first and most essential step is to remove Azkaban from the control of the dementors--"

“Preposterous!” shouted Fudge again. "Remove the dementors? I'd be kicked out of office for suggesting it! Half of us only feel safe in our beds at night because we know the dementors are standing guard at Azkaban!"

“The rest of us sleep less soundly in our beds, Cornelius, knowing that you have put Lord Voldemort's most dangerous supporters in the care of creatures who will join him the instant he asks them!” said Dumbledore. "They will not remain loyal to you, Fudge! Voldemort can offer them much more scope for their powers and their pleasures than you can! With the dementors behind him, and his old supporters returned to him, you will be hard-pressed stopping him from regaining the sort of power he had thirteen years ago!"

I can't imagine who is guarding the prison now. It must be workers from the Ministry. I can't think of anyone else. I wonder who Dumbledore would suggest. Or perhaps he has made his suggestion, and they are there, doing the job (whoever they may be).

Solitaire

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 14, 2004 4:42 am (#5 of 137)

Considering that we don't know what Dumbledore told Fudge in that half-hour of his time that he gave Fudge after he returned Harry to school at the end of OoP, he may well have talked Fudge into removing the dementors from Azkaban, but I doubt it. I think that the dementors have left to go to Voldemort. I think workers from Magical Law Enforcement would be guarding Azkaban now, as well as some being there before the dementors left. I really can't see dementors filling out paperwork and other administrative chores, can you?

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haymoni - Nov 14, 2004 10:58 am (#6 of 137)

Yes - which leaves me to my other questions - who is in Azkaban? How many other prisoners were there besides Sirius and the DEs?

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Solitaire - Nov 14, 2004 2:00 pm (#7 of 137)

Interesting question, haymoni! Umbridge was obviously planning to have Harry taken to Azkaban. Fudge thought he would arrest Dumbledore and take him there, as well. I would love to know exactly who is and has been there, and why they were imprisoned.

Other than DEs, we know that Sirius, Hagrid, and Sturgis Podmore have all done time in Azkaban. The Lexicon info on Azkaban also mentions someone named Crispin Cronk, who kept Sphinxes in the garden, despite repeated warnings. I'm probably forgetting some others. Willy Widdershins talked his way out of a term by trading info to Umbridge on the DA meeting in the Hog's Head. Might he have been there before? Dung also seems a likely candidate, although he may be cagey enough to have avoided being caught for anything specific.

It makes one wonder just exactly what kinds of crimes would merit a term in Azkaban.

Solitaire

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Paulus Maximus - Nov 14, 2004 2:14 pm (#8 of 137)

I'm sure I've read something about this before, and I think it is quite likely myself, that Voldemort might take over Azkaban and use it as a base of operations. Not only have the dementors (Voldemort's natural allies) openly joined him, but ten of his best supporters are already in Azkaban...

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Solitaire - Nov 14, 2004 2:19 pm (#9 of 137)

Quite scary, Paulus, but extremely plausible. In that case, however, I hope no one other than DEs are there. It would be terrible for some poor sucker who's there for keeping sphinxes in his garden to fall into Voldemort's evil clutches.

Solitaire

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Madame Pomfrey - Nov 14, 2004 2:47 pm (#10 of 137)

I hope DJU goes to Azkaban for her 5 against 1 attack on McGonagall. She give Harry, Fred and George a lifelong ban from quidditch for their attack on Malfoy and then she turns around and does the same thing but worse.

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Madame Librarian - Nov 14, 2004 8:18 pm (#11 of 137)

Many curious things about Azkaban:

It seems to be the only prison in all of English wizardom. Do other countries or continents have their own versions?

It seems that no matter how serious or how minor the crime, if you are guilty or thought to be so, you end up there. No lighter sentences served in things like minimum security places or doing community service. Things are very harsh in the wizarding society.

It seems you don't always have a trial. Sirius didn't, I believe. He was sent straight there. The Lestranges, however, did. Harry was given a hearing (in the real world, a much lesser procedure than a full-blown trial and unlikely to result in anything more than some recommended light punishment), yet he was at great risk of being sent off to the Big A. There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the legal system.

Are there, perhaps, different levels of confinement at Azkaban? In other words, one prison, but many varieties of internment. Maybe some prisoners don't even come into contact with dementors. Just guessing.

As with many things in the Potterverse, more questions and curiosities than answers.

Ciao. Barb

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Nathan Zimmermann - Nov 14, 2004 10:22 pm (#12 of 137)

Is there any way to link this thread with the previous Azkaban thread?

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Solitaire - Nov 14, 2004 11:38 pm (#13 of 137)

Barb: There doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to the legal system.

I'll sure agree with that statement. A lot seems to depend on how bent the Minister is on getting the culprit into Azkaban. The Wizards in the "legal system" do not seem to be too concerned with such pesky things as defendants' rights and due process of law, do they?

Instead of "Presumed innocent until proven guilty," their motto seems to be more one of "You're guilty unless you have sufficient evidence to show that you might be innocent--unless, of course, I REALLY, REALLY want you in Azkaban, in which case I'll drum up something to get you there."

The Wizarding World certainly has its own versions of corruption. We saw a "squeal deal" with Umbridge get Willy W. cleared of those regurgitating toilet charges. We also saw Umbridge set up what can essentially be called the "attempted murder" of Harry and then vote to convict him for defending himself and Dudley. She seems to be the classic corrupt politician.

It will be interesting to see if Umbridge is EVER prosecuted for any of the vile things she did.

Solitaire

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Classicsquid592 - Nov 15, 2004 3:44 pm (#14 of 137)

In the third book, the guards at Azkaban were the ones who reported what Sirius had said before he escaped. I never understood how the Dementors could have reported anything. I always took this to mean that there were a small number of human guards on hand at Azkaban. What type of people would be willing to serve in such a place? I do hope that we will see Azkaban Prison in one of the next two books.

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Solitaire - Nov 15, 2004 6:19 pm (#15 of 137)

Thanks, CS ... that would certainly indicate that there are some guards who at least talk. I suppose they could be human or part-human. I'd like to see Azkaban, as well.

Solitaire

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Paulus Maximus - Nov 15, 2004 8:33 pm (#16 of 137)

Didn't Dumbledore speak to the Dementors? Didn't Umbridge?

Of course, that only means that Dementors can be spoken to, not that they can speak...

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Archangel - Nov 16, 2004 8:13 pm (#17 of 137) Reply
Edited by Nov 16, 2004 8:14 pm

Re: Azkaban as Voldemort's fortress

It's plausible. Azakaban is not easily accessible -- it's in an island I think -- and it's a fortress being a prison. Azkaban reminds me of Alcatraz. In the movie, "The Rock" a renegade military unit used it as their HQ so the DEs or Voldemort's shock troopers could use it as their base. They might even use it as a recruitment facility -- promising the prisoners there freedom if they join them.

Re: Azkaban's structure

It might be divided into sections and levels, and the prisoners are sorted depending on the crime they committed and the sentence handed out by the courts.

For the DEs, they might be in the "maximum risk"/"high security" ward and the dementors are only ones allowed in that section of the prison. If you are in the MR/HS ward, I'm guessing you have super wizarding skills (wand or no-wand) and so, ordinary police wizards wouldn't be enough guarantee that you wouldn't escape. They might be able to control you some of the time but they couldn't guarantee that they'd be able to do all the time.

Other sections of the prison might be patrolled by anti-crime wizards depending on their rank and skills.

Since the dementors left Azkaban, it's safe to assume that most MR/HS prisoners have broken out of prison. Some might still be detained though thanks to the earnest efforts of the police wizards.

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Bash - Nov 17, 2004 7:41 pm (#18 of 137)

We know that there must be certain disciplines that can be mastered in order to resist the worst effects of long incarceration with the dementors as Sirius was able to achieve this by intuition. Probably Voldemort has taught the most important Death Eaters this much.

The dementors have left Azkaban now, so there is no way the Death Eaters who were sent there in OoTP will be held prisoner for any length of time.

Also, statistics; Hagrid said that Azkaban fortress typically held 200 prisoners.

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Jessalynn Quirky - Nov 19, 2004 5:43 am (#19 of 137)

When did Hagrid say that?

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Choices - Nov 19, 2004 9:46 am (#20 of 137)

Bash - I, too, would like to know when Hagrid said that????

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Bash - Nov 21, 2004 3:09 pm (#21 of 137)

In PoA; "As long as they (the dementors) have got a couple of hundred humans stuck there with them so they can leech all the happiness out of them they're happy."

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Choices - Nov 21, 2004 4:33 pm (#22 of 137)

Rough figure, but he definitely said it. Thanks.

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zelmia - Nov 28, 2004 4:22 pm (#23 of 137)

Azkaban must be the only "wizard prison" because Draco chides Goyle (aka Harry) for not remembering this in CS. ("Azkaban. The wizard prison, Goyle!" Although, I have always found it interesting that he says 'wizard prison' instead of just 'prison').

I had kind of always assumed (though I may be wrong of course) that, since there is only the one incarceration facility in the Wizarding World, it must have some sort of divisions relating to the severity of the crime. As Barb point out, every criminal is sent there - with or without trial.

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Paulus Maximus - Nov 28, 2004 6:35 pm (#24 of 137)

it must have some sort of divisions relating to the severity of the crime.

Of course it does. Sirius was a "top security" prisoner, and few if any wizards had been accused of worse crimes than he...

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Ms Amanda - Dec 27, 2004 6:37 pm (#25 of 137)

I don't think it's too surprising that there is only one wizarding prison in England. It must be very difficult to create a place that would prevent the prisoners from apparating and be unplottable and so forth. It would also have to have Muggle-repelling charms on it. Haven't we read elsewhere, like in GoF, that it is very time-consuming to put these kind of charms on a place?

Also, given all the charms that must be on it, I doubt that Voldie will use it as a headquarters. It might even be possible that he wouldn't be able to find the place. The way I envision the escape is that Voldie contacted the dementors, and he never had to go to Azkaban. So he might not know where it is.

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Solitaire - Dec 27, 2004 7:15 pm (#26 of 137)

Sirius said that he'd "heard things" in Azkaban. "They all think you're dead, or you'd have to answer to them ... I've heard them screaming all sorts of things in their sleep. Sounds like they think the double-crosser double-crossed them. Voldemort went to the Potters' on your information ... and Voldemort met his downfall there. And not all Voldemort's supporters ended up in Azkaban, did they? There are still plenty out here, biding their time, pretending they've seen the error of their ways ... If they ever got wind that you were still alive, Peter--"

This sounds to me like Sirius was kept in the high security area with other DE prisoners. And it seems other DEs certainly knew about Peter, doesn't it? This is a bit different from the information we have heard from Karkaroff and Barty Jr., that they didn't know about each other. Seems many knew about Peter.

I guess that's why he scrambled back to Voldemort so quickly, before the others had a chance to get at him. His only other option was to take his chances out in the open. Had he done so, he probably would have wound up in Azkaban himself, after it was discovered that he didn't die but rather killed all those Muggles AND framed an innocent man (Sirius) for it. That would be assuming a DE didn't find him first and torture and kill him.

Ms. Amanda, given that the Wizarding population would be smaller than the Muggle population, perhaps one prison is enough. Also, I would assume that, like other charmed places and things, it would expand or contract to fit the number of prisoners who were incarcerated there. I agree that, like Hogwarts, it is probably unplottable and has anti-apparating jinxes, anti-Muggle spells, and other protective charms around it. Its location in the North Sea is probably helpful, as well, in keeping the site out of the way of Muggles.

Solitaire

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The giant squid - Dec 28, 2004 12:18 am (#27 of 137)

Like Solitaire, I think Azkaban is bigger on the inside than the outside. If one ministry member can alter a car in secret, I'm pretty sure the whole ministry can come up with a way to fit as many criminals as they need to in one building.

--Mike

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MickeyCee3948 - Dec 30, 2004 9:27 pm (#28 of 137)

Tell an Exxon engineer anyplace is out of the way and see what you get! But I agree with both you and Mike's post, Solitaire. Hadn't thought about expanding cell blocks but it makes sense.

Mikie

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frogface - Jan 2, 2005 5:25 am (#29 of 137)

I doubt that Azkaban would become the new base for Voldemort, because even if Dumbledore might not know where it is, people like Fudge and Mr Weasley who know have been there, probably would know where it is. However I think it would be a really good setting for the final 'show down' between Harry and Voldemort

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Paulus Maximus - Jan 9, 2005 9:32 am (#30 of 137)

Maybe it was only one DE prisoner who knew of the connection between Voldemort and Peter.

But when the Dementors drove that one insane and he screamed the information out loud, all the others would also learn about it...

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timrew - Jan 9, 2005 2:00 pm (#31 of 137)

I had a thought while reading the thread, "Harry's Ship Uniting The Houses", where it was mentioned that Goyle was not present when the Nibblers were holding Harry & Co. in Umbridge's office.

Could Goyle have been off with his Mum visiting his Dad in Azkaban? We know that visitors are allowed, because didn't Mrs. Crouch visit her son in order to get him out?

That brings up a whole lot of other questions. Because woudn't Barty Jr. be classified as a Death Eater, and therefore a High-Security prisoner? In that case, why was he allowed visitors? Was it because of Crouch Sr.'s influence?

It sounds like Sirius was alone for all the time he was in Azkaban. So why didn't Dumbledore go and see him, if only to get at the truth? I can't see Dumbledore accepting Sirius' guilt without seeing Sirius for himself, perhaps even using his mind-reading abilities to establish this once and for all.

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Steve Newton - Jan 9, 2005 2:31 pm (#32 of 137)

When did Goyle's father go to Azkaban?

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timrew - Jan 9, 2005 3:25 pm (#33 of 137)

Okay......I knew there was a hole in that theory somewhere......

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Sirius Lee - Jan 9, 2005 3:42 pm (#34 of 137)

“Crouch being an important Ministry member, he and his wife were allowed a deathbed visit” (GOF Am Pback pg. 529)

Perhaps visitors are only allowed if the prisoner is dying, and if they have influence? You would certainly think that DD would have the influence, and would indeed want the truth. But since Sirius wasn't dying, maybe the circumstances weren't enough to allow a visit. I don't know if I even believe that, but it's all I can come up with.

It then begs the question, how do outsiders know the condition of prisoners? Do the dementors have a way of communicating with wizards? Hmm...

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Solitaire - Jan 9, 2005 10:54 pm (#35 of 137)

I didn't realize it was Barty Jr. dying. I thought it was his mother who was dying.

Solitaire

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Tomoé - Jan 10, 2005 12:06 am (#36 of 137)

The both were dying, that's why they could perform the switch.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jan 10, 2005 7:22 am (#37 of 137)

I don't believe both were dying...

“My mother saved me. She knew she was dying. She persuaded my father to rescue me as a last favor to her. He loved her as he had never loved me. He agreed. They came to visit me. They gave me a draft of Polyjuice Potion containing one of my mother's hairs. She took a draft of Polyjuice Potion containing one of my hairs. We took on each other's appearance. ..."The dementors are blind. They sensed one healthy, one dying person entering Azkaban. They sensed one healthy, one dying person leaving it. My father smuggled me out, disguised as my mother, in case any prisoners were watching through their doors." GoF Chap 35

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Sirius Lee - Jan 10, 2005 8:15 am (#38 of 137)

Good point TBE, but later on that same page, Crouch says that the house-elf nursed him back to health. I think it's a bit ambiguous whether he was sick as well.

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vball man - Jan 10, 2005 9:12 am (#39 of 137)

He was sick - from the dementors.

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[shepherdess]shepherdess - Jan 10, 2005 10:14 am (#40 of 137)

Mrs. Crouch must have been a very brave person. Even though she knew she didn't have long to live, she still chose to spend her remaining time in Azkaban, among the dementors, for the sake of her son. What a horrible way to end your life. What a tremendous sacrifice. To voluntarily put yourself through that would take a lot of courage, and a lot of love.

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Choices - Jan 10, 2005 10:36 am (#41 of 137)

I was almost ready to liken her to Lily, but then I realized there is a big difference between one who knows they are dying anyway laying down her life for their child and one who is young and healthy laying down her life to save her child. Even though both had the same intent, Lily definitely made the greater sacrifice.

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hells456 - Jan 13, 2005 3:51 am (#42 of 137)

I don't really see the difference. I think the vast majority of mothers would give their life for their child without a second thought. I am an absolute coward, but I would kill or be killed for my child. I think the mother's age and the child's age are irrelevant.

It could be argued that Mrs. Crouch's was the greater sacrifice. Lily had a quick death and was reunited with most of her family and her beloved husband. Mrs. Crouch had to suffer reliving her worst nightmares for a while. That sounds like a slow and very painful death to me.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 14, 2005 3:12 pm (#43 of 137)

I believe the Polyjuice potion that he took probably made him as sick as his mother until the effects wore off.

Mikie

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Nathan Zimmermann - Jan 15, 2005 10:00 am (#44 of 137)

The question I have about Azkaban is about the mass breakout. How is it that 10 DE's evaded the dementors and the human guards. Or is it possible that the dementors aided in their escape by disabling the human guards.

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Choices - Jan 15, 2005 10:08 am (#45 of 137)

Maybe the dementors did Voldemort a little favor and looked the other way. They are, after all, Voldemort's natural allies.

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MickeyCee3948 - Jan 15, 2005 12:07 pm (#46 of 137)

Have we been told there are human guards? What an assignment standing watch over a bunch of dementors who want to suck every joyful thought out of your head. Who are then watching over a bunch of homocidal psycopaths and other general misfits.

Mikie

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Paulus Maximus - Jan 18, 2005 2:09 pm (#47 of 137)

I'm not sure where else to put this, and it does pertain to two Azkaban prisoners...

I was thinking about what Sirius and Crouch Jr. had in common: Both were sent to Azkaban by Crouch Sr. without a fair trial, and after they escaped, both intended to commit the crimes for which they had been imprisoned.

Might the parallels go even farther? Might both have actually been innocent?

Comparing Bella's behavior at the trial to Crouch Jr.'s, it seems like either Crouch Jr. was innocent or he was good at pretending to be. Yet pretending to be innocent was what Crouch Jr. despised in the Death Eaters who got away.

Maybe it's another case of the pot calling the kettle black... or maybe Crouch Jr. was not a truly devout servant of Voldemort until he was already in Azkaban with Bella. It is quite likely that Bella's fanaticism rubbed off on Crouch Jr. there...

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vball man - Jan 18, 2005 2:41 pm (#48 of 137)

Interesting idea, Paulus. I take exception with one point you made along the way:

Yet pretending to be innocent was what Crouch Jr. despised in the Death Eaters who got away.

That's not precisely right. Crouch Jr. despised death eaters who stopped being death eaters; they blended into society and stopped acting evil when Voldemort disappeared. He didn't do that. He (apparently) went after the Longbottoms hoping that they would know where Voldemort was.

Once he was caught, he probably wanted to avoid Azkaban just so he could keep looking for Voldemort.

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Paulus Maximus - Jan 18, 2005 6:59 pm (#49 of 137)

We don't know if he was guilty or innocent before he went to Azkaban, but he was most certainly guilty after... just like Sirius wanted to be.

Like Sirius said, Crouch Jr. may have simply been at the wrong place at the wrong time. His behavior at the trial was quite different from Bella's, even though by the time he left Azkaban his behavior was similar to Bella's.

I just think that the time he spent in Azkaban with Bella had something to do with that...

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Solitaire - Jan 20, 2005 11:05 pm (#50 of 137)

How long was he actually there before his mother took his place?

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ex-FAHgeek - Jan 30, 2005 11:02 am (#51 of 137) Reply
Edited by Jan 30, 2005 11:04 am

So why didn't Dumbledore go and see him, if only to get at the truth? I can't see Dumbledore accepting Sirius' guilt without seeing Sirius for himself, perhaps even using his mind-reading abilities to establish this once and for all.

Dumbledore was the one who gave the information to the Ministry that would have proved Sirius' guilt (since Dumbledore thought that he was the Secret Keeper); he admitted this himself in Prisoner of Azkaban.

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Solitaire - Jan 30, 2005 11:40 am (#52 of 137)

I don't think Mrs. Crouch could have had a long, lingering death. She would have had to take her Polyjuice potion every hour, right up until her death, to keep up the appearance of being Barty, Jr., and she couldn't have had that much with her at Azkaban. She certainly could not make it in her cell. According to Barty, Jr., she died a short while after switching places and was buried under his name and bearing his appearance.

Solitaire

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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 10, 2005 10:30 am (#53 of 137)

[quote=*bash*]In PoA; "As long as they (the dementors) have got a couple of hundred humans stuck there with them so they can leech all the happinness out of them they're happy."[/quote]

The expression ...a couple of... doesn't mean two at all - it means a few - there may very well be three, four, five hundred and so on.

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Choices - Feb 10, 2005 10:44 am (#54 of 137)

Sorry, but I always thought a couple was "two" - It can mean an indefinite small number, but the preferred definition in the dictionary means "pair or brace" which is two.

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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 10, 2005 11:06 am (#55 of 137)

A couple yes, but not “a couple of” as is the case here.

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Choices - Feb 10, 2005 11:11 am (#56 of 137)

Why does adding "of" make it different? A couple "of" hundred means about two hundred.....doesn't it? Maybe I'm dense - please explain it to me.

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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 10, 2005 11:17 am (#57 of 137)

A couple hundred means two hundred, but a couple of hundred means a few hundred, not necessarily two. That is a rule, or so I was taught

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Paulus Maximus - Feb 10, 2005 11:31 am (#58 of 137)

Couple doesn't have the same sort of precision that two has. To me, at least, a couple of weeks means roughly two weeks.

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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 10, 2005 11:47 am (#59 of 137)

According to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

a couple of

adj : more than one but indefinitely small in number; "a few roses"; "a couple of roses" [syn: a few(a), a couple of(a)]

It is not necessarily two, but never mind.

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Choices - Feb 10, 2005 6:30 pm (#60 of 137)

Well, all I can say is that I live in the South (USA) and if it is Sunday and someone tells me they are coming to visit me in a couple of days, I expect them to be here on Tuesday.

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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 11, 2005 9:27 am (#61 of 137)

That only proves how unfair it is for ESL students to be docked points when even native speakers mistake a couple with a couple of.

I'd certainly ask a person to be more precise as to the date as for me a couple of days may mean Tuesday as well as Wednesday or Thursday.

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Denise P. - Feb 11, 2005 9:35 am (#62 of 137)

I think for most English speakers, it doesn't matter if it is “a couple” or “a couple of,” it still means two. If I ask someone to hand me a couple of paper towels, I am asking for 2. My point being, I also read it as about 200 based on the line. No more than 200 since to me, Hagrid would have said few hundred rather than a couple of hundred.

The Lexicon doesn't list a population of Azkaban. Since it was Hagrid who gave us the figure of a "couple" of hundred in Azkaban, the number could range wildly. Hagrid is not known for being highly accurate and does exaggerate things. I think the number is probably under 100, maybe as low as 50. The wizarding world just doesn't seem to have a high criminal element in it (at least not worthy of being sent there).

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Tomoé - Feb 11, 2005 2:31 pm (#63 of 137)

The problem of couple and couple comes from Old French where the masculine couple (un couple) means two lovers while the feminine couple (une couple) means a few. Since English don't know masculine/feminine, the two meaning get mixed and the feminine couple get to mean a pair.

I wonder if British use the feminine couple as a pair or if it still means exclusively a few.

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timrew - Feb 11, 2005 3:52 pm (#64 of 137)

Did you know that there's only one word in the English language that acts like a French one? It's blond. You have a 'blond' man and a 'blonde' woman. That's it - the only word.

Sorry.......back to Azkaban.........

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Tomoé - Feb 11, 2005 4:57 pm (#65 of 137)

That wasn't what I meant! And anyway, it's Old French not Modern French, only French Canadian still use both words.

Does a couple of hundred humans sound like two hundreds or a few hundreds to you?

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timrew - Feb 11, 2005 5:00 pm (#66 of 137)

They sound like a few hundred, Tomoé.........

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Tomoé - Feb 11, 2005 6:13 pm (#67 of 137)

Thanks Tim!

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dizzy lizzy - Feb 12, 2005 2:33 am (#68 of 137)

A nice lovely quirk of the English language; adopting all these words from other languages and mangling their tenses plus the masculine/feminine tenses as well!

I think Denise is right. I interpreted Hagrid's comment as a figure of speech and therefore it could mean anywhere from 50 to 200 wizards in residence. Also it would seem strange that the wizarding community would have a high proportion of the criminal element in Azkaban.

Lizzie

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Choices - Feb 12, 2005 9:33 am (#69 of 137)

I tend to think Denise is right about a lower number of inmates at Azkaban. We don't actually know how large an area Azkaban serves. If it is only an area around England, Scotland, Ireland - there probably are not that many prisoners there.

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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 13, 2005 8:59 am (#70 of 137)

We may yet find out how many prisoners are there; but as we are certain that this number cannot be bigger than 300-400. Then, we may assume that in the whole world there are more criminals than that. Also, any international cooperation in ruling the place would be difficult. It only makes sense if Azkaban is the prison of United Kingdom of Great Britain and North Ireland.

It would be interesting to know what is the population of wizards in UK, and what is average percent of criminals for muggle UK, does anyone know that?

The healthy society (according to what I remember from high school) should be made of 30% of children, 50% of grown-up working crowd, and 20% of old, retired folk.

Taking the number of Hogwarts students (1000) as 30% of wizards' population, we finish with 3350 - supposing that 10% of society (completely made up percentage as I have no idea) has a criminal record we end up with 350 people shut up in Azkaban.

Does it make sense?

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Choices - Feb 13, 2005 10:53 am (#71 of 137)

Wizard society in general doesn't seem to be very criminally inclined. You can consider the entire wizard population (except small children) to be "armed" - they all have wands and are probably capable of defending themselves and their property. Except for Voldemort and his followers, I would guess that, among wizards, most crime is "petty" in nature.

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Solitaire - Feb 13, 2005 10:21 pm (#72 of 137)

I suspect Azkaban is like the Ministry cars. It expands and contracts to accommodate the number of prisoners inhabiting it at any given time. Just a thought ...

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Choices - Feb 14, 2005 10:15 am (#73 of 137)

I like that thought Solitaire - it fits perfectly that Azkaban would expand and contact magically to fit the prison's population needs.

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Tomoé - Feb 15, 2005 3:07 pm (#74 of 137)

Joanna -> Taking the number of Hogwarts students (1000) as 30% of wizards' population, we finish with 3350 - supposing that 10% of society (completely made up percentage as I have no idea) has a criminal record we end up with 350 people shut up in Azkaban.
Does it make sense?

Not exactly, because you didn't take into account the pre-Hogwarts students. You can easily double the number of wizards.

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James Greenfield - Feb 22, 2005 12:20 am (#75 of 137)

Actually, the total number of students at Hogwarts at any one time is somewhat controversial, and has been discussed on the forum in the past.

But, let's take the number as 1000. That is less than the total number of magical children ages 11 through 17 in the British Isles, because we have those like Stan Shunpike who never go to Hogwarts. So, let’s say that there are maybe another 400 magical children in that age range (I have picked the number quite arbitrarily). Then, we need to add in all the magical children less than 11 years old. If the numbers hold, we have about 2000 of them. This gives us about 3400 children. If this is indeed about 30 % of the wizarding population, then the total for the isles is about 11333.

Now if we assume a maximum of 400 prisoners in Azkaban, then 400 out of 11333 is about 3.5%. This is a fair percent of criminals in the prison, but actually not too bad as human (muggle) societies go.

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The One - Feb 22, 2005 1:04 am (#76 of 137)

Let’s assume that the average life span of a Wizard is 100 years, and that the size of the population is stable. By your assumption about 1000 kids at Hogwarts and 400 kids in the age group that do not attend Hogwarts, that make one year class number 200 kids.

As there is 100 year classes alive at any given time, that will give 20 000 wizards/witches on the British Isles. 1% of them in prison gives 200 inmates. (In Norway at any given time, less than 0.1% of the population is in prison.)

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Joanna S Lupin - Feb 22, 2005 9:56 am (#77 of 137)

Why assume Stan Shumpike never was at Hogwarts?

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azi - Feb 22, 2005 11:49 am (#78 of 137)

I agree with Joanna. There's no reason to assume that Stan never went to Hogwarts. JKR said on her website that anyone with any tiny amount of magic attends there - you're either magical or you're not. So far we've seen no evidence to suggest that Stan is a squib, so we should assume he is a wizard, a probably not very qualified one, but still a wizard who attended Hogwarts.

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Steve Newton - Feb 22, 2005 12:03 pm (#79 of 137)

This is slightly off topic, but, in the POA movie Stan seems to be a squib since he picks up Harry's trunk without using magic.

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Choices - Feb 22, 2005 6:44 pm (#80 of 137)

Yes, I noticed that too, Steve, and wondered. Maybe it was just for comic effect though. Stan may very well have attended Hogwarts, but it is difficult to picture him there. He was at the World Cup and we don't know if he purchased the tickets himself or was there with his parents/family. I'm not sure what that tells us as we don't know the price of tickets, so we don't know how well off Stan or his family is. Stan just doesn't look like he comes from a well-to-do family (and he isn't very well spoken), but I could be wrong.

Oh....oops, Azkaban Prison - dreadful place!!

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Denise P. - Feb 22, 2005 7:38 pm (#81 of 137)

As Mrs. Weasley says, just because you CAN use magic to do something, doesn't mean you have to. It was probably just as easy for Stan to pick it up, more so if he isn't particularly adept at using magic.

I don't think we will be able to get a clear idea of exactly how big Azkaban is, unless JKR specifically says so.

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Solitaire - Feb 23, 2005 1:48 am (#82 of 137)

Steve, I responded to your comment about Stan over on "Not Covered in Other Threads," if you're interested. My comment was kind of long, and it didn't really belong here. I didn't know where else to put it.

Solitaire

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frogface - Feb 23, 2005 3:14 am (#83 of 137)

Maybe Stan is like Hagrid. Banned from doing magic for some reason, but still has magic blood.

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João Paulo Costa - Mar 15, 2005 3:08 am (#84 of 137)

We know that several of the Death Eaters were caught and sent to Azkaban after the fall of Voldemort. I do not remember their exact number, but I think they were about 10 to 20. these were the prisoners that later escaped during the year school of OotP.

This means that they stayed in prison for about the same time as Sirius - more than ten years. Now Sirius says that is very difficult to stay sane in the prison: most sane thoughts are sucked out, and the prisoners only keep their bad memories. Most prisoners go mad in a small time, and died shortly after. He only survived because of the thought that he was innocent, and why he was innocent.

Now, I'm speculating that "some time", for Sirius, in prison, will not be more than some months. This brings the question of the other DE, the ones that escaped: they should have also some kind of mental resistance, or a way to avoid the influence of Dementors.

I'll propose some theories: - Like Sirius, they had some important memories that, not being pleasant, could not be taken out by the Dementors, and helped them cope with the stay in prison;

- they could influence the Dementor guards, either by bribing or intimidating them [note: would that be possible?];

- maybe the ones that escape were being guarded more by human guards then by dementors?

- finally, maybe some of the DE that were found but were able not to go to prison, could bribe the guards or Dementors to be less harsh of fellow DE imprisoned.

Any thoughts on this?

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pottermom34 - Mar 15, 2005 7:31 am (#85 of 137)

Maybe the dementors left the DEs alone because they are on Voldemort's side. As for Sirius I thought part of the reason he kept his sanity was because he transformed into the dog while in Azkaban. The dementors didn't know the difference between canine and human as long as they knew a life was in the cell.

Does anyone think Azkaban has solitary confinement?

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Choices - Mar 15, 2005 11:11 am (#86 of 137)

I think all the cells are solitary - Sirius never mentioned a roommate. Another reason Sirius wasn't as affected by the dementors is that he had no happy thoughts for them to suck out of him. His best friends had been murdered and betrayed and he (Sirius) had been framed for it. He was not a happy camper. That, and being able to become Snuffles, saved him and eventually helped him escape.

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Solitaire - Mar 18, 2005 11:50 pm (#87 of 137)

I wonder ... would thoughts of all they had murdered and tortured be considered happy or unhappy thoughts for the DEs? Could it be their personality types and the kinds of memories they had be what kept the DEs alive for so long? Presumably all of their thoughts would be rather murderous and negative. Just puzzling ...

Solitaire

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Choices - Mar 19, 2005 12:26 pm (#88 of 137)

I think the DE's are naturally dark, evil people like their leader, Voldemort. They are less affected by the dementors because the dementors feed off happy, joyful thoughts and memories, and the DE's probably don't have many of those. They may take pleasure in killing and torturing, but I don't think those can be consided truly happy thoughts since they deal with pain and death. It may also be that the dementors are Voldemort's allies and so they leave the DE's alone....much in the way that Aragog's children do not harm Hagrid, but everyone else is fair game.

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kabloink! - Apr 19, 2005 7:40 am (#89 of 137)

At this point are the dementors still guarding Azkaban? I would think that the escape of the ten (or was it eleven-I'm overdue for a reread!) Death Eaters had a lot to do with the dementors no longer doing their job...

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kabloink! - Apr 20, 2005 3:14 am (#90 of 137)

But now the question remains, who and/or what is going to guard Azkaban. Perhaps the Giants?

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Finn BV - Apr 20, 2005 4:03 am (#91 of 137)

That's an interesting question, kabloink. I was wondering, what other prisoners do we know are still in Azkaban? Has JKR mentioned anybody by name, or is a number mentioned, or do we even have any evidence that there are still prisoners in Azkaban?

I think the Ministry and/or DD should see if the people left in Azkaban can be transported to a new location where officials can keep guard.

Ooh… I've had a sudden spurt of intelligence and it's probably really stupid, but… what if DD uses the prisoners for their side of the army, as long as the prisoners were not ever on Voldy's side

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Paulus Maximus - Apr 20, 2005 3:08 pm (#92 of 137)

Draco did say, though, that the Death Eaters would be "out in no time" if I'm remembering correctly. Maybe he thinks that nobody is guarding Azkaban now that the Dementors aren't...

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Lunar Tides - Apr 20, 2005 7:19 pm (#93 of 137)

Here’s an idea:

When Lucius was still around, I imagined that he didn't allow Malfoy into the "secret basement" for certain reasons that might have been related to Voldemort.

But now that daddy is having some fun with the dementys, Draco will *detour* down to the basement. If there is an advanced potion book down there, maybe he'll make something that could have a bigger impact than imagined.

-Chanuel

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Cornelia - Apr 21, 2005 1:09 am (#94 of 137)

I haven´t got my books at hand, please help me, "secret basement"? I can´t remember that Draco wasn´t allowed.

I´m wondering if there IS anybody left in Azkaban, the Dementors are revolting, but are they leaving? What if they are having a soul-sucking feast there?

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Choices - Apr 21, 2005 11:43 am (#95 of 137)
Edited Apr 21, 2005 12:43 pm

I do not remember any secret basement - I remember it saying the "poisons" and other illegal things were kept under the dining- room floor - sort of like Harry stashed things under the loose floorboard under his bed.

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Emily - Apr 21, 2005 12:46 pm (#96 of 137)
Edited Apr 21, 2005 1:47 pm

“Yeah... “said Malfoy. "Luckily, they didn't find much. Father's got some very valuable Dark Arts stuff. But luckily, we've got our own secret chamber under the drawing-room floor-"
-page 224(US ed.), chapter 12 of CoS

Hope that helps.

Cornelia, I like your idea about the dementor's feast. It seems very likely. Why should the dementors just leave, when they could have the best feast of their lives?

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Paulus Maximus - Apr 22, 2005 9:56 am (#97 of 137)

In that case, the Death Eaters might get soul-sucked...

...which would be quite a surprise for Draco...

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pottermom34 - Apr 22, 2005 10:23 am (#98 of 137)

That would also be too easy.

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Choices - Apr 22, 2005 11:59 am (#99 of 137)

Too easy and since the dementors are on the side of the DE's, I can't see them harming their allies.

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Emily - Apr 22, 2005 4:51 pm (#100 of 137)

Yes, but if Fudge has been denying them food, I think they could get insane enough to turn on Moldy Voldy himself. I think the Dementors are for the Dementors, but they currently serve the Dark Lord because it suits them at the moment. Maybe if the Aurors had given them free range (Heaven forbid!), they would have suck with Fudge. Who knows?

Now, it's true that since they are currently serving Voldemort, and since they can't go back to the Ministry after deserting Azkaban, they have to play it safe with He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. Not risk getting him mad. Er... madder.

So, if there is a point to this post I'll let you all find it. I sure can't. Bye!

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Emily - Apr 22, 2005 4:51 pm (#101 of 137)

Yes, but if Fudge has been denying them food, I think they could get insane enough to turn on Moldy Voldy himself. I think the Dementors are for the Dementors, but they currently serve the Dark Lord because it suits them at the moment. Maybe if the Aurors had given them free range (Heaven forbid!), they would have stuck with Fudge. Who knows?

Now, it's true that since the are currently serving Voldemort, and since they can't go back to the Ministry after deserting Azkaban, they have to play it safe with He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named. Not risk getting him mad. Er... madder.

So, if there is a point to this post I'll let you all find it. I sure can't. Bye!

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 22, 2005 8:10 pm (#102 of 137)

Yea but with all of the juicy, fresh muggle food out there why bother with a witch or wizard.

Mikie

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Cornelia - Apr 22, 2005 9:52 pm (#103 of 137)

If there are non-DE captives in Azkaban the prisoners could be just the little snack on the go.

With Fudge they weren´t allowed to "eat" as much as they wanted, with Voldemort they can have a go on much more wizards (all non-DEs). LV wants to rule the world (I think) so first they go after their enemies in the Wizarding World and then the Dementors could go after as many muggles as they wish.

But that;s a little bit off-topic, no?

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Paulus Maximus - Apr 23, 2005 3:17 pm (#104 of 137)

Too easy and since the dementors are on the side of the DE's, I can't see them harming their allies.

After finding out that a dementor soul-sucked Crouch Jr, whom Voldemort called his most faithful servant?

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frogface - Apr 24, 2005 2:56 am (#105 of 137)
Edited Apr 24, 2005 3:56 am

I was under the assumption that at that point the Dementor's were still allied to the ministry, and might have not even known about Crouch's ties to Voldemort. Also its possible that the particular Dementor that soul sucked baby Crouch wasn't even aware of Voldemorts return, after all it had only happened an hour or two before. At that point in the story in my opinion The Dementor's didn't have any loyalty to Voldemort and wouldn't have had a problem with soul sucking any death eater. Now that Voldemort is back however, they know it’s probably in their best interests not to betray him, I'm sure he's looked into ways of destroying Dementors should they become a threat to him. After all they make powerful allies, but that also means they could make a powerful threat.

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Paulus Maximus - Apr 24, 2005 7:31 pm (#106 of 137)

Do you reckon that a Patronus would have the same effect on Voldemort as on a Dementor?

We know that Patroni work on Lethifolds too...

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Wendelin the Weird - Apr 24, 2005 10:21 pm (#107 of 137)

Hmm I picture Voldemort using something twisted like the day he found out he was the heir of Slytherin to cast the Patronus. Just my 2 cents. He certainly is capable of happiness as we know from Harry channeling his emotions. When Harry realized that day after Quidditch practice that Voldemort was really happy about something.... Sure, maybe the cause of his happiness is dark and twisted, but it’s still happiness nonetheless, right?

Backing up to the original few posts - I think the cells are single cells. However, it appears that prisoners can see into the corridor and possibly other cells from their own, as well as out of a window to the grounds below. Sirius reveals all of this in his talk to Harry & co. in Snuffle's cave in GoF.

As for who might take over guarding the prison, what about goblins? The goblins aren't going to be easily persuaded as we have seen from the past attempts to get them to join sides with the Order. But they certainly are skilled in security - after all they have guarded the vaults at Gringott's all this time, and employed all manners of enchantments to trap theives in the vaults. ("If anyone else tried that they'd be sucked through the door and trapped in there." Harry: "How often do you check if anyone's in there?" Goblin: "About every ten years.") They also seem to employ dragons in guarding the high security vaults, and probably use other forms of magic - as they are said to be quite clever and powerful.

Or house elves? There is such thing as the House-elf Relocation Office at the Ministry. Perhaps the house elves who are without work could be directed to guard the prisoners? It would be quite funny to see Lucius being downtrodden by a house elf again, wouldn’t it? Heh heh.. He sure didn’t like having to face Dobby's magic before.

As for the dementors protecting the DE prisoners, I guess I'd have to agree that it probably isn’t possible since they did kiss Crouch Jr. I'm more in line with the idea of the DEs being rather short on juicy emotions for the dementors, and the determination to get out and join their master again upon his return. They did not regret their actions, or feel they had done anything wrong to get them locked up, so possibly that kept them focused enough to not go insane. Like Sirius, possibly the thoughts of revenge filled their minds enough to keep them from going insane with the nightmarish thoughts that might otherwise fill it from a normal person. If the good feelings were taken from them, they still had plenty of bad thoughts to live off of that they always lived with before. They hardly seem to hide from the negatives of life like most people do. They seem to thrive off of the disturbing images that would make most go insane.

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MickeyCee3948 - Apr 25, 2005 2:23 pm (#108 of 137)

I personally believe the wizards are more than capable of defending and watching over the prisoners in Azkaban. They just had better things to do and the dementors were so convenient.

Mikie

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Ms Amanda - May 8, 2005 4:01 pm (#109 of 137)

Yes, wizards ought to be very capable of handling the criminal element within the magical world.

I do not believe that dementors ALWAYS watched over Azkaban. I believe they came to be used after the first war with Voldemort. They brought a new, dreadful element to the punishments for DEs. The dementors had a side effect that they found useful, too. They drew the happiness and the will to do magic away from the wizards and witches there.

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Solitaire - May 8, 2005 10:37 pm (#110 of 137)

I can imagine the Dementors affecting most prisoners like some huge dose of a mass tranquilizer or sedative--removing their wills to do much of anything. That would make a much easier job of keeping them confined and controlled, wouldn't it?

Solitaire

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Nathan Zimmermann - Jul 12, 2005 7:18 pm (#111 of 137)

The isle of Azkaban reminds me a little of the Phantom Zone from the Superman comics.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 13, 2005 12:38 am (#112 of 137)

Interesting that the Dementors can not only rob a wizard of his soul, but can drain a wizards power. Makes one wonder what Azkaban was like before the dementors came under the MOM's control.

Also makes one wonder about the effects of "short-term" prisoners. Hagrid comes to mind, as well as Podmore (six months?)

...toddles off to ponder some more...

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James Greenfield - Oct 5, 2005 11:16 pm (#113 of 137)

Would somebody arrested by mistake like Stan Shunpike be sent to Azkaban? For how long? Would he be tried by the Wizengamot first?

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dizzy lizzy - Oct 6, 2005 1:06 am (#114 of 137)

I always thought Azkaban was for the "Super Baddies". But when I joined this forum, I realized I was making an assumption that there were other prisons in the WW.

I now think that even if you were arrested and incarcerated by mistake (Sirius Black and Stan Shunpike)you still get sent to Azkaban.

As to whether you get a fair trial is another matter these days as the MoM seems to be remarkably incompetent these days...

Lizzy

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haymoni - Oct 6, 2005 5:06 am (#115 of 137)

Boy - I wonder what Stan is like now? Poor bloke!

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Sparrowhawk - Oct 6, 2005 8:11 am (#116 of 137)
Edited Oct 6, 2005 9:12 am

Maybe not so bad after all, since the Dementors have all left Azkaban... He must be in the custody of more humane creatures (wizards maybe), or so I hope!

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haymoni - Oct 6, 2005 8:30 am (#117 of 137)

Thanks, Sparrowhawk! I forgot the dementors were no longer there.

Still - poor bloke!

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timrew - Oct 7, 2005 2:57 pm (#118 of 137)

Them Dementors? They don't know nuffink! Good job they left.........



Now I've got that nice Dolores lookin' after me..........never seen 'er on the bus, mind.............

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haymoni - Oct 7, 2005 3:16 pm (#119 of 137)

LOL, Tim!

Stan and Delores!

Ernie and Delores, perhaps, but Stan???

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timrew - Oct 7, 2005 3:19 pm (#120 of 137)

Okay, haymoni...........but you realise you just condemned Ernie to Azkaban? At least he might have the shrunken head to keep him company!

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haymoni - Oct 7, 2005 3:21 pm (#121 of 137)

Hate the shrunken head!

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Solitaire - Feb 26, 2006 8:48 pm (#122 of 137)

I'm still wondering just who is keeping the prisoners in Azkaban. Is it possible they prefer to remain there--now that the Dementors are no longer in charge--rather than coming out into the open and risking Voldemort's wrath? If they could break out the previous year, with Dementors in control of Azkaban, it seems like they could certainly give normal Wizards the slip ... if they really wished to do so. Doesn't it? Just wondering what others think ...

Solitaire

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Caius Iulius - Feb 27, 2006 1:10 pm (#123 of 137)

Aurors, I think. Or dragons. Or aurors with dragons.

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Solitaire - Feb 28, 2006 12:51 pm (#124 of 137)

I should think the Aurors would be busy tracking down Voldemort and other Dark Wizards and DEs who still remain at large.

Solitaire

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Aimee Shawn - Feb 28, 2006 1:21 pm (#125 of 137)

Perhaps like in American prisons there are guards; quasi-Aurors if you will. Or maybe Aurors-in-training must now spend an internship guarding the prisoners. Dragons optional.

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haymoni - Feb 28, 2006 1:26 pm (#126 of 137)

Who guarded the prison before the Dementors?

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K Stahl - Feb 28, 2006 4:47 pm (#127 of 137)

The prisoners are drugged. A special confundus charm is placed on a love potion so that each prisoner will fall in love with the rats in his own cell and not want to leave. This love potion is delivered with the prisoner's daily ration of porridge (i.e. oatmeal).

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Feb 28, 2006 4:59 pm (#128 of 137)

And the canon for that is where?

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Choices - Feb 28, 2006 5:49 pm (#129 of 137)

It's also in the porridge along with the love potion. Come on TBE, have you never been bombarded with a "canon" full of soggy oatmeal? LOL

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Nathan Zimmermann - Feb 28, 2006 8:51 pm (#130 of 137)

Perhaps they are guarded by a detachment of Aurors or Hit Wizards - the ministry has been mentioned as having both.

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Caius Iulius - Mar 1, 2006 4:22 am (#131 of 137)

Well, I still prefer dragons.

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Solitaire - Mar 1, 2006 8:20 pm (#132 of 137)

Well, Dragons certainly keep Gringotts in order, so perhaps they are used at Azkaban, in conjunction with Wizarding police. Do you suppose a mass Imperius Curse could be placed on all prisoners? Just a thought ...

Solitaire

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Caius Iulius - Mar 2, 2006 3:57 am (#133 of 137)

Solitaire, if the prisoners can shake off an imperius as easy as Harry can, they had better have dragons. LOL. Of course, an imperius would certainly work for some.

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Solitaire - Mar 2, 2006 7:12 am (#134 of 137)

Caius, even if an Imperius were successfully used, I doubt it would be the only restraint in place. I figure there are all kinds of enchantments on Azkaban. More to the point ... I sometimes wonder if some of the prisoners--like Lucius, for example--might not prefer Azkaban just at the moment. It might be far less unpleasant than Voldemort's wrath.

Solitaire

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Choices - Mar 2, 2006 10:47 am (#135 of 137)

Solitaire - "Well, Dragons certainly keep Gringotts in order..."

“Why would you be mad to try and rob Gringotts?” Harry asked. "Spells-----enchantments," said Hagrid, unfolding his newspaper as he spoke. "They say there's dragons guardin' the high-security vaults."

And later....."Once, he (Harry) thought he saw a burst of fire at the end of a passage and twisted around to see if it was a dragon, but too late...."

I'm not entirely convinced that there really are dragons at Gringotts. We have not actually seen one there, so perhaps it is just a rumor that is perpetuated to scare people into not attempting to steal from the bank.

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ex-FAHgeek - Mar 3, 2006 11:58 am (#136 of 137)
Edited by Mar 3, 2006 11:58 am

Whether said blast of fire came from a dragon or a magical trap, I know I certainly wouldn't want to be in its path!

But yes, rumors have always been a very useful security method. Just look at the Shrieking Shack.

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kingdolohov - Mar 5, 2006 5:54 pm (#137 of 137)

If they could break out the previous year, with Dementors in control of Azkaban, it seems like they could certainly give normal Wizards the slip

Actually, it should be harder now, since it seems to me that the dementors had already joined Voldemort and let the Death Eaters out.