Alchemy Symbols: Silver to Gold/ 4 Temperaments (Part II)

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Elanor - Jul 11, 2007 12:54 am (#1846 of 2155)
Great food for thought Suleiman and Esther!

Suleiman, great catch about releasing the volatile. And very good idea about Harry eventually trying to save Severus!

BTW, the "sever us" meaning of Severus may come to play again. As a Mercurius figure, Snape will be the one allowing the final conjunction(s) but, at the same time, he may well be the one who will ultimately allow the "severing" of the Harry/Voldemort bond.

Esther, I had not noticed how much the "structure" of the R.A.B. note was symbolically important, great catch! Your point 7 had me compare the UK and US versions of the book (I have the UK adult hardcover and the US paperback ones). In the UK version of the book, the note's font is just the same as the rest of the chapter, and there is no "link" between the 'R' and the 'B'. I wonder if this is a "design" Jo has asked for...

BTW, if we think of the place of each letter in the alphapbet, R is 18th, A the first and B the second, which gives "1812". I've searched the Lexicon to see if this would be a date we've heard about already and only found it was the year of birth of a certain Dorcas Wellbeloved (nice name btw!) who created the Society for Destressed Witches. More interesting though is the fact that added these numbers give... 12 again!

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Jul 11, 2007 1:11 pm (#1847 of 2155)
"I am trying to avoid speculation about what will come in book 7, but I have one thought that keeps coming back - I think Harry will defeat Voldemort by sacrificing himself to save Severus."

A very interesting observation indeed!

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Suleiman - Jul 11, 2007 10:40 pm (#1848 of 2155)
One last comment on Chapter 28. The Flight of the Prince refers to both Snape and Regulus (whose name means little king or prince). They were just a year or two apart in Slytherin, so they certainly knew each other, if they were close it would give us both a Half Blood and a Pure Blood Prince - both became Death Eaters and then left Voldemort around the same time - wonder if we won't learn about some connection there. I suppose Draco is also a little prince in a sense so maybe it is a good omen for his character (if not his longevity) that he stands in that company.

Also brings to mind DD's comment in PS/SS that at least Harry wouldn't be raised as a pampered little prince.
Sule

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Nicholas Schouten - Jul 15, 2007 6:09 pm (#1849 of 2155)
Great job everybody. Why do I feel a sense of not being sure I will finish before DH comes out!

At any rate, some notes on Chapter 29 from me:

1. The etymology of Phoenix adds depth to this bleak chapter: “a "mythical bird," also "the date" (fruit and tree), also "Phoenician", literally, "purple-red," perhaps a foreign word, or from phoinos "blood-red." Exact relation and order of the senses in Greek is unclear.’” Clearly the singing of the Phoenix foretells the arrival of the Rubedo Stage for the DH; but at such cost…

2. The other key word here is lament. It is: “In the traditional music of Scotland, a lament is also a genre of musical composition for thebagpipes. In Scots Gaelic, these pieces are often called piobaireachd or pibroch (an Anglicized spelling representing the pronunciation). In form, these slow pieces are a theme and variations, beginning with a slow air (called the urlar) which is played with variations and embellishments; the simple melody returns to finish the piece. These pieces are usually named after a person; traditionally, the person for whom they were composed was a warrior slain in battle.” (Wikipedia; bolded emphasis added.) We have spoke of music as harmony, but laments speak to a type of harmony after the battle; and perhaps a harmony with death. And the Book of Lamentations addresses the destruction of the First Jewish Temple; here Hogwarts has been invaded—has it been looted also? Of what? A Horcrux?

3. There is a strong sense in this chapter that DD’s death (real or otherwise) was “required”. Draco and cohorts arrived to do the deed through the Room of Requirement. Before the Stone can be achieved, attachment to/fascination with the Albedo stage must be released.

4. As evidence of the further anthropomorphization of the Hogwarts Castle, we see the Phoenix Lament echoing through the Castle walls, as if the walls have ears. Harry and the others feel the lament easing their pain as it echoes across the grounds, almost as if a spell was being laid on them and the Castle. This healing lament/dirge (hmmm Weasley twins on the flip side?) continues and Harry doesn’t notice it having stopped until we are told that “Nothing matter except the end,…”

5. The females lead Harry in this chapter. After giving exhaustive but unsuccessful chase to the Slytherins, Draco and Snape, in the last chapter, it is Ginny who succeeds in directing Harry to leave the Albus/Albedo, when the remonstrations of Rubeus/Rubedo against staying are not heeded. Then, it is McGonagall who leads Harry from the hospital to headmaster/headmistress’ office. Harry’s greater internal conjunction is still proceeding.

6. Interestingly, to round out the picture on Ginevra Weasley (with regard to this thread strong take on the (anagram) vinegar/vitriolic acid aspect), it seems her name has quite a number of aspects, from Wikipedia: In latin, juniperus is a combination of the word "junio," which means young, and "parere," to produce, hence youth producing, or evergreen. The names Genefer, Jenefer and Jinifer (all Old English variants for juniper); Geneva (French variant of Genevrier), Genevieve (French variant); Ginepro (Italian for Juniper); Ginevra (Italian variant form of Juniper); and Ginny are other names that also refer to the Juniper tree. [¶] The Welsh name Guinevere is a variant spelling of Gwenhwyfar, which in Welsh is a combination of the word "gwen," which means white or fair and "hwyfar" which means a spirit or fairy. … [¶] Because the latin Juniperus family of names are the same or very similar sounding to the Welsh Guinevere family of names, it is very difficult to determine which family that names that begin with gin-, jen-, or jun- ultimately originated.” (Wikipedia, bold emphasis added.) Thus, we see that Ginny can also be a reference to gin (alcohol/spirits/distillation) and the whole juniper family of references and we see within her name, conjunction itself.
(continued on next post)

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Nicholas Schouten - Jul 15, 2007 6:13 pm (#1850 of 2155)
7. Ginny leads Harry, on Wisdom’s orders (the orders of Minerva [McGonagall]), to the hospital room where Harry comes face to face with the grotesque: Bill’s face ravaged by the semi-animal Greyback. Interestingly, grotesque comes from a noun, from M.Fr. crotesque, from It. grottesco, lit. "of a cave," from grotta (see grotto). Used first of paintings found on the walls of basements of Roman ruins (Italian, pittura grottesca). Originally (it meant) "fanciful, fantastic," but the sense became pejorative after mid-18 century. And so after the “brief” interlude of the Albedo/DD demise, we are lead back to the cave! In fact, this chapter will end with Harry speaking to Ron about the results of the venturing into the cave, with a true sense of futility and an eye to “the end” (see comments below about “the end”.)

8. In leading Harry, Ginny takes Harry over a bloody path: the blood stains on the entrance floor followed by Harry on the way out, in his chase of Snape and Draco, though unmentioned are still there, and now the red rubies are described not as flowers, but as glistening drops of blood.

9. The hospital room plays out many of the different traditional aspects of the feminine side, Ginny being youth, Fleur as bride, Molly as mother, Minerva as elder witch. Harry is lead in by youth, confused by the interplay between bride and mother, and in the last follows out the elder witch.

10. In the hospital room, the room of healing, IMHO, there are many misdirections given in the telling of the story. Nevertheless, on a good note, Draco runs out of darkness before his ascent towards DD and then doesn’t kill DD. Perhaps his personal Nigredo (Black) Stage won’t last so long. Furthermore, perhaps for those fans of Snape, there is a good sign in that Wisdom (Minerva) sent Ravenclaw’s Son (Filius [Flitwick, head of Ravenclaw House] to get Snape; interestingly seen from another light and in a strange sense, Flitwick “releases” Snape from the dungeon of playing two roles. Snape is now forced to play only one role—at least until the climactic part.

11. Why was Lupin/antimony there in the halls at all? Surely if anybody among LV’s adherents or sympathizers saw him, his cover would be seriously jeopardized. Had his time among the werewolves ended? Did he make promises to some werewolves on DD’s behalf and now that DD was gone, those plans would be going awry, hence Lupin’s “loss of control”?

12. JKR tells us R.A.B. is the most important thing about the cave at the end of this chapter: “…nothing mattered except the end…” [¶] “ ‘R.A.B.,’ whispered Ron”! At the end of the note in the locket is “RAB”.

Those are my only notes for chapter 29.
-Nick

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Elanor - Jul 16, 2007 6:23 am (#1851 of 2155)
Great thoughts Nick! And I think your last point is particularly spot on, bravo!

This is it! In only a few days, we'll have the DH in our hands (I know mine will be trembling). I have worked on the last chapter of the HBP these last days and I have found it particularly rich. I hope you will forgive me for being that long-winded about it though as it may take something like 6 posts to post all I have written. Here goes then!

Chapter 30 – The White Tomb

* The last chapter is the 30th, which is a reference to the number 3, that is to the 3 principles, but maybe also to Harry’s 3 mentors: Hagrid is here carrying Dumbledore’s body and Harry remembers Sirius during the funeral, and before, when thinking there had had no funeral when Sirius had died as there had been no body to bury. 30 is also 3 times 10, the ouroboros: Sirius and Dumbledore’s “life circles” have now been closed – will it be Hagrid’s turn in the DH?

* The title of the last chapter, The White Tomb, marks the achievement of the Albedo stage of the series, marble being, as we often said, “a symbol for the white stone of the philosophers” but L.Abraham also adds that “Marble is also used as a surface on which to perform the grinding of substances”, as the alchemist Colson once wrote: “Amalgame Sol and Lune, and grind it on a Marble with powder of salt, prepared without any moisture, until no mercury appear.” (L.Abraham, p.122).

Dumbledore’s tomb in that regard becomes the symbolic table on which the final conjunction will take place. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the final “duel” between Harry and Voldemort will take place on it, but symbolically, Dumbledore’s death – tomb – will be the marble on which it will happen.

Furthermore, the Albedo “leads the adept out of the black night of the soul (the nigredo) into the dawning of consciousness, heralding the advent of full consciousness symbolized by the midday sun at the final red stage of the opus, the rubedo.” (L.Abraham, p.5). It seems to me that what Harry feels and thinks during Dumbledore’s funeral and just afterward definitely is his “dawning of consciousness” while the funeral taking place on “the most beautiful summer’s day heralds the bright sun on the way to which now Harry is as he enters the Rubification process.

Just like the HBP was the Albification book – that is the book leading to the completion of the White process which happens at the very end of the book – the DH will be the Rubification book, the Rubedo being only achieved as the DH ends.

* Some very positive details are bound to Madame Maxime that Harry and the others see arrive for the funeral: her carriage is “powder-blue” and powder can be seen as a “projection powder” reference, the powder which is made from the achieved Stone. Pernety distinguishes three “powders”: the “projection powder”, the “black powder” (at the Nigredo), the “white powder” (the achieved Albedo) and the “discontinued powder” (“when the matter ascends with the white color” – p.396). While there is no mention of the color blue in the powder articles, the color blue in alchemy refers either to the black or to the “azure”, that is mercurial waters/quintessence (as posted a few days ago).

Moreover, the “powder-blue” carriage is pulled by 12 giant palominos, that is white and golden horses (palomino even comes from the Latin “palumbinus”, that is ‘resembling a dove’ – dove which is an Albedo symbol). Madame Maxime is also “olive-skinned” (olive is a Red magistery symbol), and at the same time has black hair. All the colors of the Great Work are thus bound to her: like a living Peacock Tail symbol?

The most significant part though IMO is that, as she gets out of the carriage, she throws herself “into the waiting Hagrid’s arms”, into Rubedo’s arms...

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Elanor - Jul 16, 2007 6:26 am (#1852 of 2155)
* When Harry sees Bill during the days the latter spends in the hospital wing, he notices that Bill “now bore a distinct resemblance to Mad-Eye Moody”. Mad-Eye Moody’s deformity is a very positive symbol as deformity “refers to a place of a favorite sign which hides very precious things, things which require an effort to be gained. [...] Deformity makes the one suffering from it an intercessor [...] between the known and the unknown [...] this world and the next world” (J.Chevalier, Dic. Des Symboles, p.356). The fact that Bill is now bound to the deformity symbol may hint at a positive role Bill may have in the DH (something connected to the wedding?).

In that regard, there may be more than comic device in Bill now having “a great liking for very rare steaks” and Fleur saying that it is lucky he is marrying her because “ze British overcook their meat, I ’ave always said it”. Pernety indeed mentions meat in two entries of his alchemical dictionary first about what he calls “the Meat of the Heart”, which is philosophical Mercury which “nourishes [the Hermetic metals] in the vase, strengthens them and leads them to perfection.”. Pernety also mentions the “Meat of the Dead” a name for the Mercury of the wise which “kills” and then gives life again to the philosophical metals.

“Meat of the Heart” does seem to apply better to Bill and Fleur but in fact both “meat” references refer to Philosophical Mercury and its nourishing and crucial action on the path to the perfection of the Stone and are therefore some very positive symbols bound to Bill and Fleur (herself already very Mercury-bound). Fleur says she won’t “overcook” the meat, which may mean that she, and Bill, will help Harry/the Stone not to be “overcooked” at the right time...

* Incidentally, the “Meat of the Dead” symbol makes me think of the Dark Mark and the “Morsmordre” incantation that produces it (which can be understood: “to bite death” since “mors” is death in Latin and “mordre” is “to bite” in French). Therefore, the name “Death Eater” can be bound to that symbolism as well, giving to Harry’s trials when facing the DEs an interesting “cooking of the Stone” meaning. The Dark Mark that led Harry and DD on the Astronomy Tower and under which DD’s body was found afterwards does find a very interesting meaning if we keep that “Dead’s Meat” symbol (what “kills” and then gives life again to the philosophical metals) in mind.

Another symbol is bound to the Dark Mark if we read Morsmordre “mors” and “mordre”, “mordre” means “to bite” and “mors” is the “bit” that is the mouthpiece which is attached to a bridle and used to control a horse. There is a famous phrase in French which “to take the bit between one’s teeth”, that is to “bite the bit” – mordre le mors... (the phrase is used when talking about stampeding horses but is also the equivalent of the English “to fly off the handle”). This becomes interesting if we connect it with alchemical symbolism, especially with the story of mythological Hippolytus, as Pernety writes it.

Hippolytus, whose name means “stampeding horses”, was Theseus’s son and he was killed when his chariot’s horses were frightened by a sea monster and dragged him to his death as chariot and driver crashed on some rocks. Pernety then says that Hippolytus represents Mercury and that: “After his volatilization he falls again into the sea of the Philosophers, where the rock or stone of the Wise is forming, and where he dies, that is he fixes himself there; because dying and to be fixed are two synonymous terms as regards hermetic science, as to volatilize signifies to give life. (p.197).

Now, let’s apply this image to the Dark Mark above the Astronomy tower and Dumbledore’s fall and death... Interesting, isn’t it?
Dumbledore, the White wizard with his half-Moon spectacles and silver hair is Mercury bound. When the AK hits him, he is first like “suspended beneath the shining skull”, that is beneath the “morsmordre” sign – here is the “volatilization” Pernety first talks about. Then, as Hippolytus falls into the sea and crashes on rocks, Dumbledore falls and crashes on the grounds where he lies “broken”, as Jo describes him. Volatile, Mercurial Dumbledore is then dead, “fixed" and Harry, the “forming stone”, doesn’t want to move from where Dumbledore lies.

But then, during Dumbledore’s funeral: “White smoke spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue, but next second the fire had vanished. In its place was a white marble tomb, encasing Dumbledore’s body and the table on which he had rested.”

”To volatilize sigifies to give life” says Pernety... Dumbledore is volatilized again during his funeral, he has been given life again – under another form, an ascended form. Once this is accomplished, the series’ Albedo is complete, as the white marble tomb symbolizes.

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Elanor - Jul 16, 2007 6:30 am (#1853 of 2155)
* Before the funeral, Harry is described not feeling “burning to get to the bottom of a mystery; he simply knew that the task of discovering the truth about the real Horcrux had to be completed before he could move a little farther along the dark and winding path stretching ahead of him, the path that he and Dumbledore had set out upon together, and which he now knew he would have to journey alone.”

There are several interesting details in that sentence:

- First, Harry is not burning anymore, there is one step missing before the “burning”/cooking is resumed: the funeral/completion of the Albedo stage.
- Then, the idea of “journey and of “path” that we so often (ok, in each post, lol!) mentioned on this thread is now written in black and white (I could even say in Black and White as these stages are now completed). This does stress the idea of the 7 books journey and of the last stage now waiting for Harry.
- The path is described as being “dark and winding”, what a wonderful wording, so rich! The adjective “dark” tells us that the last book will be a journey of its own (including the three alchemical stages) and winding sort of symbolically summarizes Harry’s task in the DH:

-->the twisting movement the word implies, very serpentine, and the “wind”part tell us of the volatile/Mercurial/Slytherin path that must be Harry’s in the DH.
-->Winding comes from “wind” that is “to take a spiral course”, and we find here again the ascent symbolism we mentioned so often especially when “winding staircases” were mentioned in the story. At the end of the path, the final “ascent” is waiting for Harry.
--> To wind also means “to pass (something) round a thing or person so as to encircle or unfold” (Oxford Dict.), which is another ouroboros reference.
--> This may also be a “winding sheet” reference and therefore herald Harry’s death in the DH (either real or symbolic).

* Harry keeps repeating to himself the list of the possible Horcruxes and this “mantra seemed to pulse through Harry’s mind as he fell asleep at night, and his dreams were thick with cups, lockets and mysterious objects he could not reach though Dumbledore helpfully offered Harry a rope ladder that turned to snakes the moment he began to climb...”

We so often talked about this line on this thread! First the mention of the mantra is interesting as it means “instrument of thought” and Harry’s thoughts for that matter are quite circular: “... the cup ... the snake ... something of Gryffindor’s or Ravenclaw’s... the locket ... the cup ... the snake ... something of Gryffindor’s or Ravenclaw’s...”. A very ouroboros-like way of thinking... You go Harry!!

The ladder is an ascent symbol and Dumbledore is offering Harry the way to ascend: the ladder turns to snakes, a Slytherin/Mercurial reference again which is Harry’s ascending path, that is to acknowledge is own mercurial side and reach inner conjunction. This is also a Snakes and Ladders game reference, that is a maze one and Dumbledore is giving Harry the Ariadne’s thread he needs to reach the center of that symbolic maze: the Mercurial rope (i.e. thread) ladder.

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Elanor - Jul 16, 2007 6:33 am (#1854 of 2155)
* Hermione’s researches about R.A.B. may tell us more symbolically about the “R.A.B. quest” than one may think at first sight:

- Rosalind Antigone Bungs.
Rosalind’s etymology is double: the first one is “from hros 'horse' + lind 'weak', 'tender'” (the horse is a volatile symbol) and the second “from Latin rosa linda 'lovely rose'.” (AskOxford), which is a Rubedo reference.
The name Antigone is bound to the tragedies of old and I can’t help but think of Jean Anouilh’s version of Antigone which begins with a "Prologue" introducing the characters and especially Antigone, saying: "Elle pense qu'elle va mourir, qu'elle est jeune et qu'elle aussi, elle aurait bien aimé vivre. Mais il n'y a rien à faire. Elle s'appelle Antigone et il va falloir qu'elle joue son rôle jusqu'au bout..." ("She thinks that she is going to die, that she is young and that she, too, would have liked to live. But there is nothing to do. Her name is Antigone and she will have to play her role till the end...").

An interesting parallel with R.A.B.’s: “I know I will be dead long before you read this […] I face death in the hope that when you meet your match, you will be mortal once more.” …

Mythological Antigone defied her uncle the king knowing it would mean she would die in the end. She is sentenced to death but takes her own life before the sentence could be carried out. Her name means “the opposite of her ancestors”. Whoever R.A.B. is, the Antigone reference is therefore very interesting, even more if R.A.B. is regulus indeed (IMO).

As for “Bungs”, a bung is a “stopper”…

“I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death”… Spooky, isn’t it?

- Rupert “Axebanger” Brookstanton. Rupert may be a veiled reference to Ron as Slughorn calls him Rupert at some point in the HBP: a way of linking Ron’s fate to R.A.B.’s?
Axebanger is an “axe” reference, the weapon symbol that allows the crucial “bleeding” of the Stone.
Brookstanton, I am still searching about. “Brook” is an interesting word which means “to tolerate, to allow” but is also a name for a “small stream”, and then coming from Dutch and German words for “marsh”, which could be a nod towards Slytherin coming from “fen” as the Sorting Hat said in GoF. Brookstanton… “stand on brook”? “Brook”/Slytherin being the field on which the axe will “bang”. This may well be a hint towards Ron’s sacrifice in the DH.

* Hermione tells Harry that she has found out that Eileen Prince once married a Muggle named Tobias Snape. Tobias is a Biblical name and one bound to a very positive story: “ According to the Book of Tobit in the Apocrypha, Tobias, the son of Tobit, a rich and righteous Jew of Nineveh, was lucky enough to acquire the services of the archangel Raphael as a travelling companion on a journey to Ecbatana. He returned wealthy, married, and with a cure for his father's blindness. (AskOxford).
Even more interesting (IMO) is the fact that tobias is also the name of a spider and a spider genus! Here we find the Ariadne’s thread symbol connected to Snape again. There is definitely something in Snape’s past that Harry must dig out in the DH (as Snape’s childhood memories were already hinting at in OotP). We often said that the DH should be the book of the fathers, methinks we’ll find Tobias again on our, and Harry’s, road…

* Slughorn now seems to personnify the Slytherin house as he is described wearing “magnificent long emerald-green robes embroidered with silver”. Both the silver and emerald symbols are very positive ones, as to tell us that Slytherin house with Slughorn at its head is now ready to be truly united again with the other houses?

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Elanor - Jul 16, 2007 6:36 am (#1855 of 2155)
Some details worth mentioning about Dumbledore’s funeral (that have not been mentioned before that is):
- Fred and George are wearing “jackets of black dragonskin” – the Weasleys are once again connected to the dragon symbolism.

- Before the funeral, the sound of people whispering “sounded like a breeze in the grass, but the birdsong was louder by far”: the “breeze” is a volatile reference but the “birdsong”, both a music and language of the birds/quintessence reference (both bound to DD), is of course “louder” as DD is about to achieve his final “ascent”.
In the same way, the merpeople’s song will be “otherworldly” and Dumbledore’s body wrapped in purple velvet, very symbolic of his own journey’s achievement.

- Fudge is again “twirling his green bowler hat” – just like he was doing in the first chapter of the book (see post #640). The book's ouroboros is closing itself...

- Umbridge is wearing a black bow on her “iron-coloured curls”. We may not have finished with Umbridge either in the series, her appearance is too Nigredo/iron-mars-war/”round”-circle for not being important again...

- During the funeral “a sharp pain rose in Harry’s throat”. This is not the first time this happens, already in chapter 23, at the end of Harry and DD’s talk about the Horcruxes: “A flame seemed to leap inside [Harry’s] chest, searing his throat”, about which Nick had written:
“In chakric terms, the flame arises from the heart and leaps to the throat energy levels. The yantra (meditation picture) of the Vishuddha (throat) Chakra is a silver crescent within a white circle shining as a full moon surrounded by sixteen petals. The silver crescent is the symbol of nada, pure cosmic sound. The crescent is symbolic of purity, and purification is a vital aspect of Vishuddha Chakra. The moon encompasses psychic energy, clairvoyance and communication without words. In the fifth Chakra, all the elements of the lower chakras - earth, water, fire and air – are refined to their purest essence and dissolve into akasha. Many Albedo signs indicated here, along with the elemental harmony beginning to coalesce within Harry.” (from post #1751). A beautiful symbol for the completion of the Albedo here again!

- Hermione, Ginny, Harry and later Ron all cry during the funeral, and these tears are very important symbolically as regards the Albedo process (I already posted a lot about it, especially in this post: #1841). Hagrid also cries a lot and is then described “blowing his nose with loud trumpeting noises”. The word “trumpeting” is a “music” reference and therefore Rubedo’s mentor’s tears already herald the achievement of the Great Work.

- Harry during the funeral remembers “Dumbledore’s idea of a few words, “nitwit”, “oddment”, “blubber” and “tweak”, which reminds Harry and us of the very first time Harry saw DD (not counting the day on which DD left him to live with the Dursleys). These words form another ouroboros symbol. Incidentally, it is curious that, when DD sees Harry when he is brought to the Dursleys by Hagrid, Harry is sleeping. After DD’s death, in turn, Harry sees DD in his painting, DD is sleeping. In PS/SS, we then see Harry awake 10 years later, at the end of a first cycle in his life (as the ouroboros 10 shows). DD’s sleep in the painting shows us the end of a cycle but also the beginning of a new one, under another form we’re yet to know.

- Ron looks as if the “sunlight was blinding him”. Blindness is something we evoked lately as well, when Harry was described walking "blindly back through the croud" in the previous chapter. As posted then: “ To be blind symbolizes both "to ignore the reality of things" and/or to know the "secret, deep reality [of the world], the one ordinary mortals are forbidden" to know (Dict. des Symboles, p.88).”. What is blinding Ron is the light of the sun, the sun that is Harry (Sulphur, King, etc). Ron doesn’t know already what is exactly waiting for him following the “sunlight” but this path will lead him to his own ascent eventually.

- The same is true for Hermione whose face “was glazed with tears”, what an interesting word choice! It does recall the alchemical vitrification process which is “the converesion of matter into glass or a glassy substance through the action of heat” and this image was used by the alchemists to “refer to the final fixation of the matter in the alembic into the philosopher’s stone” (L.Abraham, p.212). Next time Harry looks at her and Ron: Ron “was now holding Hermione and stroking her hair while she sobbed into his shoulder, tears dripping from the end of his own long nose.”. Those two have reached the “fixation” time of their relationship. The decision they have made, to be with Harry till the end, and are going to soon tell him “fixes” their destiny as well. And Hermione’s “glazed” face (which may also be a glass(es)/sharp look of the alchemist symbol) tells us it is all for the very best.

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Elanor - Jul 16, 2007 6:39 am (#1856 of 2155)
- Ginny on the contrary has then, as Harry is about to tell her they can’t see each other anymore, a “hard, blazing look”, a “cooking” reference. This separation is for Harry part of the “cooking” of the Stone-to-be he is.

- Harry tells her that “It’s been like… like something out of someone else’s life, these last few weeks with you, […] But I can’t… we can’t… I’ve got things to do alone.”. If we see Harry’s journey from a Jungian point of view, the goal of this journey is individuation, that is to become really oneself and this is what Harry still has to fully realize. He has not been truly himself with Ginny since it was like something out of someone else’s life and there are things he needs to do alone - that is being one. Feeling alone is a feeling that is described several times in the chapter, Harry first thinking of the path he now has “to journey alone”; during the funeral he thinks that “he was more alone than he had ever been before”; later when Ron and Hermione tell him they’ll be there with him he again thinks he is “undertaking this most dangerous journey alone”. Alone, because Harry’s road is the road to being eventually one with himself.

- Yet, at the same time, some support on his journey is already offered and foreshadowed. Dumbledore’s first, as Harry quotes him to Scrimgeour: “He will only be gone from the school when none here are loyal to him” and later saying again he is “Dumbledore’s man through and through”. Later, when talking with Ron and Hermione, Harry’s eyes are “upon Dumbledore’s white tomb, reflected in the water on the other side of the lake”. We find here again the mirror symbolism and what the alchemical mirror shows is DD’s tomb, meaning, IMO, that in his search of the Horcruxes Harry will still find DD’s help. Harry can also still hear Hagrid’s “howls of grief” – he too will be part of the last process.

More support is of course given by Ron and Hermione who tell him they’ll be there, with him. The trio is now ready to be as one for the last part of the journey. This won’t be easy, as shows the fact that they are talking “in the shade of a beech tree” – beech is indeed connected to Saturn in alchemical charts, Saturn which like the “shade” is Nigredo bound. But “beech” is “hêtre” in French, which is homonymous to “être”, that is “to be”…

- Harry then tells Ron and Hermione about going back to Godric’s Hollow because for him “it started there, all of it”, heralding thus the series’ ouroboros. Harry going back to the Dursleys is also a very circular plan and even Bill and Fleur’s wedding at the Burrow is as Ron says Harry has to “come round my mum and dad’s house”. The last sentence of the book also clearly hints at the ouroboros symbolism when Harry thinks of “the final meeting with Voldemort he knew must come, whether in a month, in a year, or in ten”.

- It is also interesting to notice how the HBP’s book ouroboros is stressed, the end of the book mirroring its beginning.
--> Indeed, when DD comes to fetch Harry, Harry sleeps – in the end DD does.
--> On their way to Slughorn’s, DD and Harry discuss Inferi then, seeing Slughorn’s house: “Dumbledore stopped dead and Harry walked into him” (p.62), which mirrors the cave’s events when Harry walks into DD again, before they encounter true Inferi.
--> In the same way, at Slughorn’s, the broken grandfather clock mirrors the broken hourglass of the end.
--> Slughorn then mentions Regulus to Harry (a “mirror” reference if RAB is Regulus).
--> Harry’s spirits lift at the sight of the Burrow just like he feels his heart lift when thinking of Bill and Fleur’s wedding in the end.
--> DD tells Harry he knows Sirius’s “loss is devastating”, words which are mirrored in Scrimgeours telling Harry “You are, of course, devastated.”
--> DD then tells Harry he needs his friends and should tell Ron and Hermione about the Prophecy - they, in the end of the HBP, do indeed stand by his side.

Therefore, DD telling Harry before they enter the Burrow: “Now, two more things, Harry, before we part” (p.79) takes a very foreshadowing importance in the perspective of the DH! Indeed, DD first wants Harry to always have his Invisibility Cloak at hand (which is a Mercurial reference) but he also wants Harry to behave while being at the Burrow: foreshadowing tragic events which could take place there in the DH?

- Finally, the chapter was starting with Harry thinking of the “dark and winding path” he now had to journey alone and it ends with Harry thinking of “the dark and twisting path he saw stretching ahead for himself” – repeating the same symbolism. But in spite of everything “he felt his heart lift at the thought that there was still one last golden day of peace left to enjoy with Ron and Hermione.” – which could well be the true HBP’s Rubedo: the trio ready to move as one, thinking of a “golden day”, making Harry’s heart ascend.

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Suleiman - Jul 16, 2007 1:04 pm (#1857 of 2155)
Elanor, once again a wonderful and exhaustive analysis. Rosalind Antigone Bungs - outstanding.

I think the parallel with Slughorn's tableau may bear even closer examination - in addition to the inferi and clock, we have the dragon's blood spilled on the walls foreshadowing DDs death, the whole discussion of not apparating in because that would be rude and the mention of the protections on Hogwarts, the talk of the DEs, the whole discussion of the Ministry leaflet (which itself is an outline of the end of the book) and finally the Dark Mark which DD notes has been omitted in Slughorn's haste.

I just want to pick up the importance of the dark and winding path - it is a reference to the work on the Tree of Life, the great work. We have another reference in Harry's dream about DD and snakes and ladders. These refer to the three pillars or paths on the tree - the path of severity or study, the path of Mercy and the alchemist's path the winding path in the center.
Sule.

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Elanor - Jul 17, 2007 12:23 pm (#1858 of 2155)
Thanks! And great details in your post to add to the analysis!

BTW, I have found another "end of the HBP mirrors its beginning detail". In the "Draco's Detour" chapter, the first time Draco sees Harry (who is with Ron and Hermione) it is in a mirror: a nice parallel to be drawn with the Sectumsempra chapter, isn't it? Here are the quotes:

"[Draco] strode to the mirror and examined himself; it was a few moments before he noticed Harry, Ron and Hermione reflected over his shoulder." (p.112).

In the Sectumsempra chapter: "Malfoy gasped and gulped and then, with a great shudder, looked up into the cracked mirror and saw Harry staring at him over his shoulder." (p.522)

The mirror is different, because Draco is also different at this point of his journey but each time what the alchemical mirror reveals for Draco is Harry. Actually, Harry being the Stone-to-be, what the mirror may reveal is the "Stone" at the end of Draco's road as well, meaning first that Draco's role in the completion of the "creation" of the symbolic Stone will be important but also that the Stone is what is waiting for Draco. Therefore, Draco seeing the future "Stone" in the mirror may foreshadow the achievement of his own journey.

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Elanor - Jul 18, 2007 12:14 pm (#1859 of 2155)
As the DH release approaches, I was thinking of all the predictions we've made on this thread about what is going to happen in book 7 and that it would be too huge a work to try to sum them up.
However, I thought that maybe a post which would try and sum up the major alchemical Rubedo symbols could be useful, a kind of "keep your eyes open for those symbols" list. What follows is in no way exhaustive, and only what may be important IMO, but I hope it will be a good start for our analysis of the DH.

* First, the DH will be the Rubification book, so everything red (and gold) will be particularly important in this book, beginning with the characters having a connection with the color red: Hagrid of course, the "Rubedo mentor", but also Rufus (=red) Scrimgeour, "Poppy" Pomfrey, the Weasleys.

The color ginger (ginger is a color connected to the sun) is also important in that regard, so we'd better add Slughorn and Crookshanks to that list and, indirectly, Dumbledore (he used to have auburn hair).

The color purple, which symbolizes quintessence, will also be particularly important. Dumbledore ends his journey wrapped in a purple and gold material in the HBP, I wouldn't be surprised Harry would also wear these colors in the end.

Emerald (green) should also be important, especially the "smaragdine eyesight" symbol since, as often said, "at the end of the Great Work, when the alchemist has “discovered the quintessence of things” and has become the “Filius philosophorum, son of the philosophers and therefore eternal child in possession of spiritual gold, the initiated alchemist could have the smaragdine eyesight (that is emerald green)” (Enc. des Symboles, p.167)." (post #1817). Harry's green eyes in short will play their part...

* Incidentally, Albus was the Albedo guide, and we can read his name "alb - us" (just like we read Severus "sever - us"), that is "make us/Harry white". In the same way, we can read Rubeus phonetically "Ruby-us", that is "make us/Harry ruby", which is a Philosopher's Stone symbol.

* Some symbols we've already met on numerous occasions in the series should be particularly important in the DH:
- the final conjunction of the alchemical principles, the chemical wedding, hermaphroditic symbols (like the warlock wearing the wig in the RoR) ;
- alcohol, mead, honey, olive (Ollivanders?), toffee, treacle;
- ladders and spiral staircases (and other ascent symbols like the shell);
- socks (journey symbols), the mirror (Harry truly "seeing himselef" in it; the Mirror of Erised may be present too);
music, Dragon's blood (and all that goes with it: the "no-time" idea, the language of the birds, etc);
- balm, bezoar;
- the phoenix (the cinnabar bird), the rooster, the ortus,
- East/Auror;
- the golden fleece (velvet, wool), rock, vitrification/glass/glasses, crystal, azure (sapphires);
- ruby, the red rose, the red lion, the sun, gold;
- references to the 21st card of the Major Arcana, the World, and to the Fool one;
- the numbers 7, 12, 10 etc, etc. They all are Rubedo/Philosopher's Stone/Quintessence symbol.

* Rubedo is also the "Reign of Mars", therefore all things Mars related, including what happens on Tuesdays, or things made of iron, will be important. Mars is also bound to war and the two symbols will be entwined in the DH. Many plants are also bound to Mars (like hawthorn, the wood Draco's wand is made of); they, and the ones bound to the sun (the planet of the 7th step of our journey) will be interesting to spot.
To these plants, mandrake can also be added as said in a previous post.
To be continued in the next post

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Elanor - Jul 18, 2007 12:16 pm (#1860 of 2155)
* Based on the rubedo entry of L.Abraham's book, here are also a few interesting details which may come to be important in the DH:

- During the rubification of the Stone, the light of dawn develops "into the golden illumination of the midday sun. [...] With the fixation, crystallisation and embodiement of the eternal spirit, form is bestowed upon the pure, but as yet formless, matter of the Stone.".

Which does make me think of Dumbledore telling Harry: "In spite of all the temptation you have endured, all the suffering, you remain pure of heart, just as pure as you were at the age of eleven [...]" and later Dumbledore mentions "the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and whole" (p.511). Harry-the-Stone is to finally "take shape" in the final book.

- During that process, the "heat of the fire is increased". I think this does imply a particularly interesting role of the Weasleys (and we may find the salamander symbol again), especially Ron (the "maroon" symbolism - which is also connected to Slughorn and Dobby as Slughorn is wearing a maroon velvet jacket the first time we see him in the HBP and Dobby wears a maroon sweater which belonged to Ron).
Percy [called "Peter"/stone by Draco in CoS] Ignatius (based on the Latin for fire) should be important too, and Charlie with his dragon connection. Ron and Percy's fates do seem to me to be bound to some kind of sacrifice they will make at some point.

- The rubification is sometimes "likened to blushing" and to "staining with blood" or to "the dyeing of a white garnment". The blood detail is particularly ominous for Harry but symbolically the king is to "resurrect" in the end. Incidentally, when this happens, the king is supposed to wear a diadem on his head... Here we find the tiara again?

- It is also interesting to notice that "within the whiteness the red is hidden". Alchemist Benjamin Lock even said: "rednes is hid in his center as the soul", which makes me wonder once again about Harry's scar being a Horcrux and him getting rid of it being a key moment in the DH. This can also be a hint to the fact that Harry already knows what will make his quest successful, even if he doesn’t realize it fully yet.

* Some other Rubedo connected symbols we may find:
- The Elixir of Life was also called: "Aurum Potabile", that is "drinkable gold" (which does make me think that we were spot on when saying that golden Felix Felicis had Rubedo effects: "This potion, the "colour of molten gold" (p.177) has effects that reminds me a lot of what is said about alchemists having achieved the Philosopher's Stone. Those alchemists were then supposed to perfectly understand the world they lived in, the mysteries of Nature, to have knowledge and wisdom and to have found the real peace of the mind.").

The Elixir of Life was also called "the pure essence of love" - and this will be a key symbol of the DH.
(To be finished in the next post)

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Elanor - Jul 18, 2007 12:21 pm (#1861 of 2155)
- The idea of harvest is also bound to the completion of the Great Work (how not to think of Hermione Granger's role?), the autumn is also (as the leaves turn gold) as is the tree of the philosophers bearing gold and silver fruits (incidentally, all citrus trees are connected to the sun).

- The DH should also be the "book of the fathers" just like the HBP was "the book of the mothers" and the characters' fathers' influence should be important in it.

- The ouroboros symbol will of course be particularly important and all that is related to it: circles, the number 10, snake/dragon "biting their own tails" (symbolically), squares becoming circles...

I would add to that that I think it is likely that we'll see Dedalus Diggle again in the DH. And that the last chapter will mirror the very first of the series (I still think that "The Man Who Lived" would be a great title for the last chapter.).

In the same way, I would not be surprised at all if we’d find the words "Cauda Draconis" (the dragon's tail) at some point, to mirror the "Caput Draconis" Gryffindor password of PS/SS - both being alchemical (and geomancy) symbols.

- During the rubification, the multiplication and projection processes take place (which is what Basil Valentine calls Coagulation).
During multiplication, "all the colours of the opus are said to appear in rapid succession" (L.Abraham, p.132), as more solve et coagula cycles take place. Some symbols bound to that process include the pelican feeding her young with her own blood (here we find the idea of sacrifice again), and the hydra (which makes me think of Snape saying that fighting the Dark Arts is like fighting "a many-headed monster", p.177).

- In the end, peace, the "harmonious state attained when the opposing principles of the opus, sulphur [...] and argent vive [i.e. Mercury] [...] are united" (L.Abraham, p.141) should crown Harry's journey.

* Finally, let's not forget that the final conjunction produces "pure love (the child, the Stone)" (L.Abraham, p.35).

IMO, one can never stress enough the importance of Love as a binding, prodding, saving force in the series. Harry, as the Stone-to-be, symbolically is the living force of love. Hence why Love is Harry's most powerful weapon, and why Voldemort will fail in the end: Harry will have reached the end of the symbolic Great Work and become the Stone/pure Love. Voldemort does not know love, he can't achieve his own "quest".

When Harry will finally reach inner conjunction, he will then symbolically become "pure love" - and then be able to send Voldemort in the void of his love-less soul – an empty shell.
I'm afraid this has been very long again!

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Luna Logic - Jul 18, 2007 12:41 pm (#1862 of 2155)
Thanks for all that work and sharing, Elanor, and good Potter Day in California ! I will impress your three last posts to bring along in my own journey of reading Book 7...

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Esther Rose - Jul 18, 2007 1:06 pm (#1863 of 2155)
Actually the "first chapter" in SS/PS Oroboros has partly already begun in HBP. We have the "fits". In PS/SS Dudley Dursley has a right fit in his highchair just before Vernon leaves for work. And when Vernon returns from work Dudley learns a brand new word. "Won't"! In HBP Kreatcher is summoned by Dumbledore and the first thing Kreatcher does is throw a fit and yell "Won't".

Dumbledore was the one to leave Harry at the Dursley's door in SS/PS just before midnight. Dumbledore was the one to pick Harry up from the Dursleys in HBP and the time was probably just before midnight since Dumbledore had planned to be at the Dursleys at 11pm.

Also, Harry is asleep when Dumbledore drops him off in SS/PS and asleep just before Dumbledore picks him up in HBP.

When Dumbledore takes Harry to see Slughorn the house is "destroyed" and blood is spattered along the walls. Interesting that it is Lily's blood that saves Harry's life and the home in Godric's Hollow is destroyed.

This leads me to believe that Harry's stay at #4PD might be at its end. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry doesn't even stay the night there. Although I am not sure if we have seen the last of Petunia though. Her behavior in OOtP and her alarm at Harry becoming an adult at 17 in HBP makes me think she has some explaining to do. (perhaps her protection against Voldemort would end when Harry turns 17 as well.)

Perhaps not the "man who lived" but the "man who returned from death".

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Elanor - Jul 19, 2007 11:53 am (#1864 of 2155)
That title works too Esther! I do agree about Petunia! Maybe she will be one more flower to be "blooming" during the red stage...

Thanks Luna! **blushing**
I wish you all a wonderful Deathly Hallows reading! Talk to you all soon from California!
Audrey

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zelmia - Jul 19, 2007 10:29 pm (#1865 of 2155)
Great observations, Esther! I'll have to finish catching up on this Thread before I say more.

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Esther Rose - Jul 20, 2007 6:18 am (#1866 of 2155)
I just had a thought. What if it is not oroborous to the night Lily sacrificial death to save Harry but oroborous back to Harry's birth. That would make Dumbledore's death the sacrificial death and Harry would have one more year to "be reborn".

So I guess that means there may be a "birth" of some sort at the end of HP7.

What do you think?

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Nicholas Schouten - Jul 20, 2007 11:15 am (#1867 of 2155)
Well when all is said and done, not much for me to add regarding Chapter 30--Great postings Elanor! And Sule, I don’t think there is any disputing that path of the Snake will have to be followed! Ester, nice catches. My final thoughts for the HPB (at least until revised in light of DH!); so near to the end and the beginning of the end!

1. The birdsong was louder than the buzz of the people gathered for the funeral. I agree that the birdsong is “both a music and language of the birds/quintessence reference”; I think that this description applies very strongly to Harry on a number of points: since it is “heard” through Harry’s ears, it is a sign that he is beginning to hear Nature’s song more and more. The definition of birdsong is: "Certain vocalizations of birds, characteristic of males during the breeding season, for the attraction of a mate and for territorial defense. Birdsong also reinforces pair bonds, and some species have a flight song. Birdsongs are usually more complex and longer than birdcalls, which are used for communication within a species. Birdsong may be hereditary or learned; a newly hatched male chaffinch, for example, can sing a "subsong" but must learn to sing the true song by listening to and imitating adult males.”

2. The Merpeople remind Harry of the Inferi. Here Harry is still viewing the Water element as an aspect of death; yet his viewpoint is mistaken. From the Water element comes the musical harmony in this service. Further the White Tomb, the resting “knoll” (see etymology of “tomb”) of the Albedo, of DD, is reflected back to Harry from the depths of the water (compare to if the image was absorped by the water or not reflected back).

3. Harry’s relationship with Ginny is still grounded in a different dimension. Harry has to “steel” himself to deal with Ginny’s blazing eyes. I fear that this will be a relationship that drops behind Harry as he advances on his path. On the other hand, in order for Harry to turn his back on Ginny, he turns his back on DD (DD’s tomb), which brings to mind the statement of McGonagall about DD and love in re Bill and Fleur.

4. In any event, in turning his back on DD (DD’s tomb), Harry circles round the Water Element of the Lake, and finds he has to deal with Rufus Scrimgeour. This dealing brings to the forefront of Harry's mind again and further "burns it in his brain" (as my Latin teacher would say!) that Harry is DD’s man through and through. (Paraphrased from the Lexicon: “'Scrimgeour'is a Scottish clan name that probably originated from a nickname meaning "skirmisher" (a version of "escrimeur," French for "swordsman") and 'Rufus’ isLatin for "red-haired." Elanor has written quite well and extensively about the symbolism of the sword and the knife (also see relatedly, the ax or axe). Harry’s next step is the Rubedo, but his steps are dogged by this faux representative of the Rubedo. This encounter reminds Harry that although he is about to move beyond the Albedo stage, he must carry within him ('searing’ within him???) the things learned in reaching the Albedo stage. He cannot just turn his back on Love to fight the good fight, instead he must carry Love with him to prevail.

5. I will also note that this faux representative of the Rubedo stage looks at Harry shrewdly, when Harry demands of him an unadorned statement of what he is seeking. Shrewd derives from shrew, and traditionally the earlier sense of "spiteful person" (male or female [as a “shrew”])…is said to derive from some supposed malignant influence of the animal, which was once believed to have a venomous bite and was held in superstitious dread.

6. Finally, a query: Why did the idea of visiting Godric’s Hallow enter into Harry’s mind on the night/morning of DD’s death? Ah wells, maybe that will be answered soon enough!

Those are my only notes for chapter 30; I got them out before DH came out! Woohoo!

Happy reading to all those in the UK who will be getting their books in just a few minutes (more or less)!!! (Still a little over a half-day's wait where I be!)
-Nick

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Esther Rose - Jul 20, 2007 12:34 pm (#1868 of 2155)
Nicholas, that was absolutely phenomenal. I'd say more but I have a bookstore to visit.

Here is to analyzing book 7. See you all in a couple days/a week/a month/whenever you finish the book.

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Luna Logic - Jul 20, 2007 1:09 pm (#1869 of 2155)
I really enjoyed the part about Rufus Scrimgeour because I had him in a certain suspicion (going to hunt the Lethifold with McLaggen and Slughorn?)
I wish I had more time to read, reread, think about and grasp all the meanings of this thread, but I know it will stay there, and that time will now run again(but ahead of the event - 12 hours for me...)
Thanks all for sharing with us your thoughts and works on HBP and Alchemy... and good reading of DH to everybody.

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LooneyLuna - Jul 20, 2007 6:53 pm (#1870 of 2155)
Bravo and Brava! I cannot contain the enjoyment that I get from reading this thread. Thank you all. I wish I had something to contribute other than my jaw, agape, at your analyses. Thank you so much. Reading Deathly Hallows will only be richer for the information you've presented here.

Thank you!

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Suleiman - Jul 20, 2007 8:23 pm (#1871 of 2155)
Driving home tonight (will leave in about an hour to get the book) I watched Regulus setting between Venus and Saturn.

In a lifetime in academia I've never enjoyed or learned so much from reading and discussing a book as I have from our read of HBP. I just wanted to express my gratitude to Hollywand and Elanor and Nick and everyone else who contributes here for making this such an enlightening and welcoming place.

I will be traveling tomorrow and at the beach in Florida for the next week so I will have to scrounge an internet connection, but if I find one, where should I look for brilliant tidbits from the alchemy gang? I'm sure I will plough right through on the first read, but I know I will be wondering often what you folks will ferret out. I assume a spoilers policy will restrict posting here, so where shall I look for Elanor's first gems from the Deathly Hallows?
Sule

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Nicholas Schouten - Jul 22, 2007 12:07 pm (#1872 of 2155)
A quick note to say thanks for the compliments and to note that in the

"=+=+= Deathly Hallows Threads (Includes SPOILERS) Folder =+=+="

there is now a DH Alchemy Thread. PLEASE NOTE THAT THE EVENTS IN THE DH ARE SPOKEN OF (hence why no direct link is given), so if you haven't read to the end of the DH book yet, strongly consider before going to the DH Alchemy Thread.
-Nick

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Kip Carter - Aug 11, 2007 1:13 am (#1873 of 2155)
DH Alchemy Thread
Nicholas Schouten suggested the following:
Would it be possible to have a DH alchemy thread?

There are so many symbols that we have been discussing on the current alchemy thread that came up in the DH. It would be great to be able to discuss them sooner rather than later.
This thread is provided to discuss these thoughts now.

This thread was suggested by many, but in this folder by KTO.

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Nicholas Schouten - Jul 22, 2007 9:20 am (#1874 of 2155)
Thank you so much Kip!

The journey is complete, the Work of the Phoenix achieved Harry has become the one he was meant to be, has become “the one” and truly One at the end of the quest. A fool figure– Peeves – is telling us so: “Wee Potty’s the one” in the very end. What a wonderful journey we have lived with Harry! Thanks Jo!!!!!

While Harry’s journey is fulfilled, ours is fortunately far from being achieved! I know it will take us months to analyze the book completely (though will it ever been done completely? I’m sure we’ll keep finding more at each re-read!) but how to start that work? Some days ago, before the DH was released, I (Elanor) posted three posts in which I tried to sum up the symbols that we were likely to find in the DH and most of them were indeed present in the book, confirming that our alchemical analysis of the series was on the whole spot on!

Nick and I have compared these “predictions” to the book, and here are our first thoughts…

(All quotes in blue font in this post and our next "few", are from the posts #1859 to #1861 of the main Alchemy thread.)

* “First, the DH will be the Rubification book, so everything red (and gold) will be particularly important in this book, beginning with the characters having a connection with the color red: Hagrid, of course, the "Rubedo mentor", but also Rufus (= red) Scrimgeour, "Poppy" Pomfrey, the Weasleys.”
And the Rubification book it has been!!! The colors red, gold, and purple are omnipresent in the book (we’ll list them all while analyzing the book more completely) and Rubeus Hagrid has definitely been the Rubedo “mentor” for Harry in the last part of his journey, not in a “Sirius-esque” or “Dumbledore-esque” way but in his own way.. Hagrid is the one with whom Harry leaves 4 PD (on the flying motorcycle, a wonderful ouroboros symbol BTW!); Hagrid is the one who carries Harry back to the castle once Harry is “born again”; and Hagrid is the one who gives Harry the “tool” Harry needs for the last part of the journey: the Mokeskin pouch - which name is so close to the “moleskin” Hagrid frequently wears.

In the Mokeskin pouch Harry will keep all the “treasures” that are really important to him, not necessarily important for what they are (an old letter, a bit of a broken mirror, a broken wand, etc) but for what they represent. And what they represent is Love, memories of the ones Harry loves, and who loved him. This is his strength, his true weapon. Through the Mokeskin/Moleskin present, which holds the symbols of Love, the Rubedo mentor is constantly with Harry. Harry doesn’t need more learning, he just needs to find the strength to carry on. And this is Hagrid’s gift.

Incidentally, the name mokeskin is very interesting as a moke is, in British slang, a donkey, which reminds one of the ‘shaft donkey’ symbolism we already mentioned on the main alchemy thread: “According to Fulcanelli, a famous alchemist we talked about on the old thread, there is a pun on "antimoine" (antimony), that is "ane-timon" (shaft-donkey) very close phonetically, from a passage of the Bible in which a donkey leads people to a fountain. …it is a guide” (post #168) . The mokeskin is therefore the “guiding skin”, and Hagrid provides that guidance. There will be so much more to say about Hagrid in due course.

Scrimgeour, though dead early on in the book, also has an interesting Rubedo role as he gives Harry, Ron and Hermione the certain items Dumbledore left them in his will – although Scrimgeour does withhold the sword, this is logical: the sword needed to be earned, not given (DD’s instructions to Snape: it must be “taken under conditions of need and valor” , see “The Prince’s Tale, chapter 33, p. 689, Scholastic; [sword hidden behind DD’s portrait, inferentially placed into lake by Snape]). Scrimgeour and Harry still don’t seem to be on the same side, yet Scrimgeour dies protecting Harry by not revealing where Harry was.

Madam Pomfrey makes only a very short appearance in the book but the Weasleys are once again crucial for Harry’s journey (about the Weasley symbolism as well, there will be lots to say in due course!).

We will stop here for now but we will soon continue the comparison, merely giving here important associations/ideas: ginger-Ron, the conjunctions, the King’s death and re-birth, the constant ouroboros symbolism, the thread of Ariadne (aka, in French: Ariane) (we have spoken about that symbolism so often and the DH reveals the most powerful “spider” thread of all, the one which transcends Harry’s journey - DD’s Ariana – the personification of the Ariadne thread ), the reign of Mars, the final unity of Hogwarts, Harry as the true Phoenix, Voldemort’s “empty shell”, etc, etc…
Elanor and Nick

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Hollywand - Jul 22, 2007 7:38 pm (#1875 of 2155)
I see a marked difference in Rowling's writing between book one through five; six and seven shift in style and narrative. In the closing books, in my opinion, Rowling moves away from the symbolically rich metaphors she establishes in Harry's magical world, and much more toward an external dialog. Her detailed, playful, rich symbolism in the first five books are what make Harry's world so unforgettable. The closing two books are much more preoccupied with trying to provide answers, and responding to the collective audience that is looking over her shoulder while she writes. Further, Rowling seems to, in my opinion, lose interest in Harry's journey at the point that Sirius goes through the Veil.

I see that Rowling has taken the symbols, Horcrux and Hallow, woven them together, and closed the circle. The narrative in book seven is particularly strong in the closing sequences; perhaps this owes to the fact that Rowling authored the ending long before the world was watching over her shoulder, while still in Harry's dreamy magical world in her solitude and not in the overexposed world of Potter today.

I am sure the alchemy symbolism will emerge upon my continued digestion of the story, but I am struck by how much of the book was consumed by gossip, sibling rivalry and dispelling rumours. Sigh. Silence is golden.

It is unfortunate that Rowling set up a treasure trove of magical symbolism in the previous books, only to rather casually walk away from them for an biography done by Rita Skeeter.
Alas, earwax.

Nicholas Schouten - Jul 22, 2007 9:37 pm (#1876 of 2155)
Hollywand, we look forward to going through this book with you and the others with our newly acquired “smaragdine” viewpoint(s).

Continuing the Rubedo comparison started in the previous post:

“The color ginger (ginger is a color connected to the sun) is also important in that regard, so we'd better add Slughorn and Crookshanks to that list and, indirectly, Dumbledore (he used to have auburn hair).”

The color ginger is indeed mentioned quite often in the DH, especially in connection with Ron, who is rechristened several times “ginger” in it (for example by the Snatcher named Scabior, p.448, chapter “Malfoy Manor”, Scholastic ed.).

Slughorn, though not present for the most part of the book, has a very positive role in the book. During the “Battle of Hogwarts” he and Charlie lead the new “attack force” coming from Hogsmeade and afterwards Slughorn is described dueling Voldemort next to McGonagall and Kingsley. He is then wearing some emerald pajamas, another very positive symbol.

“The color purple, which symbolizes quintessence, will also be particularly important. Dumbledore ends his journey wrapped in a purple and gold material in the HBP, I wouldn't be surprised Harry would also wear these colors in the end.”

In the end, after being born again, Harry receives some robes (a Rubedo symbol to be discussed in another post) but the color is not mentioned. However, the color purple is, like the red one, omnipresent in the book, beginning with Hermione conjuring “ purple and gold streamers” (p.118, chapter 7 (very interesting!), “The Will of Albus Dumbledore”, Scholastic ed.) for Harry’s birthday, or the purple carpet of the wedding ceremony (in due course, we will list all the numerous other purple references, like the Gurdyroot purple infusion Harry, Ron and Hermione drink at Luna’s father’s.).

More interesting though is the fact that, in the end, Harry chooses not to keep the Elder Wand – nor the Resurrection Stone – and to put the Elder Wand back in DD’s tomb, in effect entombing it with the purple material… Incidentally, Harry’s not keeping the Resurrection Stone is just as important symbolically. Indeed, the Stone was Cadmus Peverell’s and Cadmus is a character we already met on the alchemy thread, see the post #1459 of the main Alchemy Thread:
“The hollow oak against which Cadmus pierced the serpent with the serpent with his lance is said to signify the completion of the operation of making the philosopher’s stone. In the alchemical interpretation of this myth, Cadmus symbolizes the alchemist, the serpent, philosophical mercury, the lance, the fire, and the oak, the athanor in which the alchemical egg or vessel sits.” (L. Abraham, A Dict. of Alchemical Imagery, under “Oak” entry.).

Therefore, the Resurrection Stone represents the fixed volatile, the Philosopher’s Stone, and Harry does not want to keep it (he does not want to disrespect Death) and instead returns it to the ground (in the Forbidden Forest), in essence, back to the soil, back to the Materia Prima (and thus honoring Death's role)– the ouroboros/circle is closed.

“Emerald (green) should also be important, especially the "smaragdine eyesight" symbol since, as often said, "at the end of the Great Work, when the alchemist has “discovered the quintessence of things” and has become the “Filius philosophorum, son of the philosophers and therefore eternal child in possession of spiritual gold, the initiated alchemist could have the smaragdine eyesight (that is emerald green)” (Enc. des Symboles, p.167)." (post #1817). Harry's green eyes in short will play their part...”
In the HBP, the Gryffindor hourglass was broken and its rubies were lying on the floor. In the DH, twice it is mentioned that now the Slytherin Hourglass’emeralds are on the floor (p. 646, Chapter 32, “The Elder Wand”, Scholastic ed., and p. 661, “The Prince’s Tale”, Scholastic ed.).

In the King’s Cross chapter, Harry does not need to wear glasses anymore – he has reached the inner conjunction, quintessence, Dragon’s Blood, the true smaragdine eyesight. He has truer vision now.

Elanor and Nick

Edit: Merci Zelmia!!! Great to see you posting again in the alchemy lab!

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zelmia - Jul 22, 2007 9:40 pm (#1877 of 2155)
Bienvenue a Californie, Elanor!

Hollywand, I am sorry those were your first impressions. May I suggest that perhaps she appears to have abandoned the rich symbolism of Harry's journey only because we can no longer rely on Dumbledore to ensure we have interpreted it properly? Which is the whole point of the Red book, right?

Though I have not participated in our discussions of late, I want you guys to know that my first thought after reading the "Kings Cross" chapter was of you. "Oh! Harry is like the phoenix!" I thought.

I am most curious about the Doe.

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Julie Aronson - Jul 23, 2007 4:37 am (#1878 of 2155)
At the very most, I visit the alchemy thread for a glance, but I couldn't help noticing that the "Harry" polyjuice potion was gold. Of course this made me think of the end of his alchemical journey. Was he already there so early in the book?

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LooneyLuna - Jul 23, 2007 7:53 am (#1879 of 2155)
Like Julie, I also noticed that Harry's polyjuice potion was gold. There were loads of times while reading the book that I thought of the Alchemy Thread. A few more that pop up are:

Hagrid's tears over Harry's *dead* body. I had the visual that Harry was being cleansed by his Rubedo Mentor's tears.

During Harry and Voldemort's final confrontation, and Harry reveals to Voldemort that he, Harry, is the true master of the Elder Wand, "A red-gold glow burst suddenly across the enchanted sky above them as an edge of dazzling sun appeared over the sill of the nearest window."

I cheered for Harry. He's done it!

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Elanor - Jul 23, 2007 2:06 pm (#1880 of 2155)
Zelmia, about the doe, the first things we have found about it do fit the Mercury symbolism already bound to both Snape and Lily very well. Indeed, according to Pernety, it refers to one of Hercules’ Labours, the capture of the Ceryneian Hind (hind=doe) which “was an enormous hind sacred to Artemis, the chaste goddess of the hunt and moon. It had golden antlers like a stag and hooves of bronze or brass, and it was said that it could outrun an arrow in flight. The capture of the hind was one of The Twelve Labours of Heracles. The doe is therefore bound to the moon/mercurial principle since it is sacred to the goddess of the moon. Incidentally, the chapter in which we see the doe appear is named “The Silver Doe”, another mercury symbol.

Furthermore, Pernety says that the doecontains the operations of the great work and that this name means metallic sap, that is, the volatile part of mercury, [...] [which is joined to sulphur and the product precipitated] to the bottom of the vase, [where] it coagulates with itself, whence the golden horns are born, that is to say the philosopher’s stone." In other words, the doe represents mercury about to be fixed – once fixed, the “golden horns” appear, i.e. the Stone is created.

Now if we think of the scene taking place in the Forest of Dean, then it means that Harry is first following the Mercury principle (which we kept telling him he should do, honest!) to a mercurial place (the water). Harry is then “precipitated” to the bottom of the “lake” (through a round/solar/sulphur hole btw). Yet, the operation of the Great Work is not complete yet as he still cannot be “sublimated”, that is, arise out of the water. Ron is then the one able to make Harry “ascend” and retrieve the sword.

Ron at that point rises to another level of his own journey, and even more after he destroys the locket. The locket, once opened, presents a great conjunction image (Riddle-Harry and Hermione wrapped in an embrace and kissing) and Ron plays his “salt” part. But the Harry-Hermione / Sulphur-Mercury figures come from Ron’s fears/unconscious and he is able to “kill” them both, for the Stone to be created. Not Harry’s inner Stone, Ron’s. This scene is a key moment in Ron’s own journey.

The silver doe symbol comes to play again and leads to Harry’s completion of the great work this time at the end of the book. It is following “the doe”/Snape’s memories, that Harry enters another forest, the Forbidden Forest, where his true inner conjunction happens. Fully aware for the first time of his two “inner principles”, he allows Voldemort to kill them both, allowing his true rebirth. From that point onwards, Harry IS the symbolic Philosopher’s Stone. As we often said on the main alchemy thread, the inner conjunction allows him to face Voldemort in the final conjunction/duel and vanquish Voldemort.

It is not by chance that both scenes happen in a forest, especially not these forests. We already discussed what the forest represents but what strikes me the most here is that both forests are connected to Hagrid. Indeed, Jo once said in an interview that she went to school “ In the Forest of Dean – that’s why Hagrid has that accent; He comes from The Forest of Dean.” (Fry, Stephen, interviewer: J.K. Rowling at the Royal Albert Hall, 26 June 2003). The Forbidden Forest is Hagrid’s domain too (Keeper of the Grounds) and he is present when Harry’s inner conjunction happens. Therefore, each conjunction moment is taking place under the symbolic patronage of the Rubedo mentor, which is a very powerful image, don’t you think?

Julie, we thought too that the “Polyjuiced Harry” being golden was a wonderful image. The polyjuice seems to represent the true essence of a person – even if the said person is not conscious of what this essence truly is. Harry’s essence is golden because he is the Stone-to-be. He is not the Stone yet, but his potential is intrinsically golden. The Elixir of Life was called “drinkable gold”, and also “the pure essence of Love”. Harry’s true essence is Love, that is the meaning of the golden polyjuiced potion.

Great points about Hagrid’s tears and the colors during the final duel Luna!
Elanor and Nick

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Suleiman - Jul 23, 2007 9:58 pm (#1881 of 2155)
Elanor and Nick together! Our first conjunction!

A couple observations to add to your fine start-

It was not clear which gate Jo ended HBP on we are definitely at multiplication at the start of DH.

The rest of the book is all about projection in both the alchemical and psychological sense. So many examples I won't even start to name them in this post.

I was wrong when I thought that Jo had exhausted the plot potential of Chemical Wedding because it lacks a narrative structure of conflict and resolution. Christian Rosencreutz progresses by giving away his possessions just as Harry here is stripped of his wordly goods. His first gift (Hedwig) second (broom) his wand, his school robes, Grimwauld Place, the RAB locket, Gryffendor's sword, the resurrection stone, one by one Harry loses or gives away all his most precious possessions and in the end is the naked but complete man in Kings Cross. In this he stands in marked contrast to Voldemort (the Horcruxes) and even Dumbledore (the Hallows).

I commented in the HBP read that I thought we glimpsed a DD who bore more direct responsibility for the events in Harry's life than many were prepared for -that Jo was exploring the question of how a benevolent deity could allow all the pain and suffering- got that in spades in DH.

Guess Snape was DD's man through and through too.

Finally I know that religion is out of bounds on the Lexicon, but I must note that this is a very Christian book, from the Penn (Quaker) quote through the explicitly Christlike images of Harry in Hagrid's arms, returning from King's Cross station. Of course this too is intimately connected to alchemy symbolism, especially as it appeared in the early 17th century that seems to be the basis for Rowling's work.

Sule
PS are we gonna just keep going with the chapter by chapter analysis?

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zelmia - Jul 23, 2007 11:01 pm (#1882 of 2155)
Could not help but notice that The Hanged Man once again foretells the imminent demise of an innocent bystander at Voldemort's hand. The Hanged Man is connected with Martyrdom, a calm willingness of sacrifice in exchange for knowledge. Here, as in the opening chapter of GF (in which Frank Bryce is killed after several references to the Hanged Man: the pub, Hangleton), the meaning of the image - but not the image itself - is inverted. Instead of willing sacrifice, the Hanged Man portends death. And indeed Death is the image that follows in the major arcana.

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Elanor - Jul 24, 2007 10:57 am (#1883 of 2155)
Great points Suleiman and Zelmia!
Suleiman, in addition to the projection symbols, we also find several symbols of the Multiplication Process (which happens just before the Projection in the last part of the Great Work): the 7 Potters, the objects in the Gringotts vault being multiplied and more that we will identify during the re-read (like the pelican symbol, that is the mother feeding/protecting her children and Narcissa and Molly’s actions proceed of that symbolism in the DH).
How about we start the formal reread once the Spoiler Alert on the Main Thread is lifted and use this DH Alchemy Thread for more general observations?

The Hanged Man symbolism is once again very present in the book. The idea of the willing sacrifice bound to the Hanged Man symbol seems also to herald Harry’s willing sacrifice at the end of the book. I am sure that, during our careful re-read, we’ll find many more examples of the Hanged Man.

More about the comparison between what has been posted before the DH release and what we actually find in the book:

* “Some symbols we've already met on numerous occasions in the series should be particularly important in the DH: - the final conjunction of the alchemical principles, the chemical wedding, hermaphroditic symbols (like the warlock wearing the wig in the RoR) ;”
The conjunction symbols are too numerous in the book for an exhaustive listing at this point but several come to mind:
- The trio/ 3 principles and even just Harry and Hermione /Sulphur-Mercury act in a conjunction-like way all book long.
- The Harry/Luna conjunction image is also well present, especially when Luna guides Harry to the Ravenclaw Tower (and many more Harry/Luna details important for Harry’s journey are present in the book).

Incidentally, it is interesting to notice that Ginny is once again a character of secondary importance in the book. Harry ends up marrying her after the quest but symbolically her importance in the quest itself is almost insignificant. Hermione and Luna, on the contrary, who are both Mercury bound are crucial to the successful conclusion of the quest.

- Draco and Snape, both Mercury-bound as well, play a very important part in the book: Harry using Draco’s wand is another conjunction symbol, just like the death of Severus Snape is. Both are tremendously important for the whole quest.

- The most important conjunction however is Harry’s inner conjunction, once he fully understands his Slytherin connection, he willingly walks towards death which results in his re-birth. This allows the final conjunction with Voldemort as we said already.

“- alcohol, mead, honey, olive (Ollivanders?), toffee, treacle;”
The treacle, alcohol/mead symbols are seen also, “fer medicinal purposes” as says Hagrid in chapter 5, “Fallen Warrior” (p.68, Scholastic ed.) – the healing of the Rubedo is starting...
Both Ollivander and Oliver Wood are also present in the DH.

“- ladders and spiral staircases (and other ascent symbols like the shell);”
Once again, a symbol present so many times in the DH that only the re-read will allow us to list them all, but some of the most important ones are, IMO, the Shell Cottage (what a wonderful name!), the Lovegoods’ house, especially the staircase leading to Luna’s bedroom and Luna’s bedroom in itself and Harry’s final ascension of the Headmaster’s office spiral staircase (with the wonderful “feel free” password: Harry as reached the freedom of the Fool).
(To be continued in the next post)


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Elanor - Jul 24, 2007 10:58 am (#1884 of 2155)
“- socks (journey symbols), the mirror (Harry truly "seeing himself" in it; the Mirror of Erised may be present too);”
Same remark as for the previous symbols: too many wonderful images to list them all now but Ron giving his socks and shoes to Dobby to be burried with Dobby is a very powerful one. Ron’s sacrifice has been hinted at all series long but in giving his “maroon/sacrifice” journey symbols to Dobby it is an indication that Dobby took Ron’s sacrificial path instead.

The mirrors are also well represented as is the idea of looking truly at oneself. Harry has to look at himself and it takes him a great part of the book before being able to really acknowledge his true feelings, especially about DD. Snape dying and telling Harry “Look... at... me...” is also a very powerful symbol. Harry has not only to truly look at himself but also to truly see the ones he thought he knew, beginning with Snape and Dumbledore. Is this the true “sharp” look of the Alchemist?

“music, Dragon's blood (and all that goes with it: the "no-time" idea, the language of the birds, etc);”
This symbol also is very present, here is just one striking example, when Harry “awakes” at “King’s Cross” in chapter 35 (p. 705, Scholastic ed.), Jo writes: “Nobody else was there. He was not perfectly sure that he was there himself. ()A long time later, or maybe no time at all [...]” The no-time of the achieved quest all right...

The fact that all this happens at “King’s Cross” is fundamental. This is a symbol we mentioned very often on the regular alchemy thread. Here is an excerpt of post #1321 ( here) about:

“John Dee's ideas, the famous British alchemist, he was especially especially influenced by his book "The Hieroglyphic Monad", that is, in short, about the unity of all creation: the final return to the 1 -always- in other words, something very close to the ouroboros symbolism. What I find fascinating about that book is that it is made of 24 theorems, a number we keep finding in the series and that we've been talking about recently!

Now, a key concept of Dee's work is about the cross symbolism that "is composed of four lines which unite a central point. The four lines represent the four elements which, at their point of union, form the magical fifth element. Thus the cross [...is ] the image of the creation of a new state of unity." (A Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery).

It reminded me of something I posted quite a long time ago: "Besides, it only hit me today that you enter The Leaky Cauldron from "Charing Cross Road" and you take the Hogwarts Express at "King's Cross" station! That makes a lot of crosses, don't you think so? The cross is the symbol of the crucible in alchemy, used for the Great Work, and both the Leaky Cauldron and the Hogwarts Express bring Harry into symbolical crucibles: Hogwarts and Diagon Alley, where he always found important information about or for his quests.

I have also found recently that the cross also represents the 4 elements in alchemy, so we find the idea of balance again in connection with TLC and the train!

And if we have a closer look, it is even more interesting: Charing Cross is a burnt cross, this is the fire element, and King's Cross has a king reference. We often connected the "king" symbol to Harry and each year the train brings Harry/the king to his Hogwarts crucible!" (from post #499).

So there is more than the cross/crucible meaning but also the cross/quintessence and, at the same time, the unity one! Which is very interesting when applied to Charing Cross and King's Cross.”

To which we can now add that this symbolism is also very interesting when apply to Harry’s “rebirth”, isn’t it?

“- balm, bezoar;
- the phoenix (the cinnabar bird), the rooster, the ortus,”
The balm and phoenix symbolism are entwined as Harry, once the quest achieved, looks at DD’s portrait and “the pride and the gratitude emanating from him (DD’s portrait) filled Harry with the same balm as phoenix song. (p.747).
Fawkes doesn’t come back but the phoenix symbolism is well present: Harry’s own rebirth, and now being reborn, his last magical act in the War is the reparation of the Phoenix – and holly – wand. The warmth Harry then experiences while taking his repaired/reborn wand (“as though wand and hand were rejoicing at their reunion” p.749) is the “grand finale” of the Phoenix/achieved Work symbolism. Finally, the Epilogue shows us another wonderful phoenix image: Hogwarts, risen from its ashes.
Elanor and Nick

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Elanor - Jul 25, 2007 12:48 pm (#1885 of 2155)
Continuing the first analysis of the DH based on what we posted before its release:

(All quotes in blue font in this post and our next "few", are from the posts #1859 to #1861 of the main Alchemy thread.)

“- East/Auror;
- the golden fleece (velvet, wool), rock, vitrification/glass/glasses, crystal, azure (sapphires);
- ruby, the red rose, the red lion, the sun, gold;”
Once again, numerous symbols in the book that we will list in due course but here is just a striking example in which almost all of those symbols are present: Dobby’s funeral which is Harry’s true awakening.

It is when Harry digs Dobby’s grave and in the subsequent scenes that he finally starts to see his path clearly and, more importantly, realizes that “he had learned control at last, learned to shut his mind to Voldemort” (Ch.24, “The Wandmaker”, this quote and the next ones from p.479 to 483, Scholastic ed., bold emphasis added). He then “felt as though he has been slapped awake again”.

As Harry digs the grave in the night (Nigredo), his grief and sweat [mercurial waters] cleanse his own “matter of the Stone”. Then, while still digging, he thinks of what has happened at the Malfoys and “understanding blossomed [flower symbolism] in the darkness”.

During Dobby’s funeral, Dean produces a “woolen hat” and Luna closes the elf’s eyes which had a “glassy stare”. The grave, after Bill has filled it with earth, is a “small, reddish mount”. Harry then takes a rock and engraves Dobby’s epitaph into it.

Back in the cottage, Harry washes himself [the mercurial waters symbol again] in “a basin [cup symbolism] beneath a window overlooking the sea” (that is, facing the East). “Dawn was breaking over the horizon, shell pink [shells/ascent symbolism] and faintly gold, as he washed”. Still thinking about his task, “He looked out over the ocean and felt closer, this dawn, than even before, closer to the heart of it all.”

As his thoughts unroll, “Harry stood quite still, eyes glazed [glass/vitrification symbolism], watching the place where a bright gold rim of dazzling sun was rising over the horizon.”. Harry is now ready to act - in the heart of the Rubification process.

This is only one of the numerous, almost constant, Rubification scenes found in the DH, culminating in the “red-gold glow” (ch.36, “The Flaw in the Plan”, p.743, Scholastic ed.) which hits both Harry and Voldemort’s faces as they both cast their spells in the last duel which at sunrise becomes the “fierce new sun” after Voldemort’s death.
Elanor and Nick.

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Elanor - Jul 26, 2007 7:41 am (#1886 of 2155)
Answering Phoenix and Steve Newton's questions about Hagrid's fate in the DH which were posted on the "Eating Crow" thread (posts # 65 to 69):

Actually, Hagrid did die symbolically in the DH (twice, if you count when he is carried away by the spiders). The whole "red" process symbolism is about the final death and "re-birth" of the matter of the Stone (which applies perfectly well to Harry in the book). Hagrid could have died "for good" in the DH but the fact that we think he is dead after the fall (symbolic also maybe?) and he survives, IMO, foreshadows Harry's fate in the Red process.

Hagrid's second "death" scene, when he is carried away by the spiders, shows Harry the way: the forest. In CoS, Harry went to the Forbidden Forest with Ron, following the spiders and Hagrid's advice, in what was already the "willing sacrifice" way (they were carried upside-down by the spiders, in the Hanged Man position). In the DH, Harry follows the way the spiders have shown him (the spiders swarmed over Hagrid and were spiriting him away) where Harry's willing sacrifice and true death/re-birth takes place.

Hagrid then carrying Harry's body back to the castle and crying on it (a very important alchemical symbol) is also a very powerful alchemical image: the Red Mentor is bringing Harry back from the dead for Harry to reach the glorious sunlit apex of his Journey.

Admittedly, there are many ways Jo could have utlized that symbolism but the way she does it is, IMO, brilliant.

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Phoenix - Jul 26, 2007 8:06 am (#1887 of 2155)
Beautiful, Eleanor!! Thank you! --Ariadne's final thread?

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Luna Logic - Jul 26, 2007 1:18 pm (#1888 of 2155)
Thanks for working on the matter again ! Just a detail about a symbol in post 11: socks !
I have noticed that in some first chapters, there are socks, but single socks...
First when harry is sorting his things in his trunk : "single socks that no longer fitted" (p. 20.)
Then when Mrs Weasley tries to prevent the journey of the Trio : "Mrs Weasley detached Harry from the others by asking him to identify a lone man's sock" (p. 77). Harry said "It's got to be me", and then
"He handed back to her the single sock (...) which was patterned with golden bulrushes.
'And that's not mine, I don't support Puddlemere United.'"(p.78)
I have read the single socks detail as a symbol of an individuation journey (which Mrs Weasley fears). But what are "bulrushes" and how are they connected? (and Puddlemere…)

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zelmia - Jul 26, 2007 2:42 pm (#1889 of 2155)
Luna, bulrushes are plants that grow along waterways and wetlands. They are also called "cat tails" in the US. Which seems an appropriate symbol for Puddlemere United.

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Choices - Jul 26, 2007 6:15 pm (#1890 of 2155)
I'm curious about the bulrushes symbol also. All I could think of was the story in the Bible about baby Moses being placed in the bulrushes or in a basket made of bulrushes - can't remember for sure which it was.

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Luna Logic - Jul 27, 2007 3:34 am (#1891 of 2155)
Thanks! A question for Elanor, are bulrushes joncs ?

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Elanor - Jul 27, 2007 7:40 am (#1892 of 2155)
Thanks Phoenix! The final thread indeed!

Yes, bulrushes are joncs Luna! I don't have my books at hand right now so I can't check them about the bulrushes symbolism yet but here are a few thoughts already:

Bulrushes are connected to water and, to some extent, to the work of the potter (and the work of the potter is an image which was used by the alchemists to describe what their work was). The one sock then symbolizes Harry having to seek the Mercurial way again.

In the same way, bulrushes were one of the ingredients needed to produce the Theriaque (a medicine and powerful antidote, known once for being able to cure everything, including snake bites). Treacle, Harry's favorite pudding, comes from the word theriaque. There is therefore a connection to the "healing" idea bound to Harry's quest (a symbol we often described on the main alchemy thread).

The "cat tails" name is also very interesting as it links the sock to the cat symbolism (which is BTW very present in the DH). In alchemy, the cat is a solar symbol and a guide the alchemist has to follow. The cat symbolism incidentally has been depicted by alchemists through tales, especially in one of Charles Perrault's tales ("Puss in Boots") - which all hide alchemical material incidentally. Interesting when thinking of the tales book DD left Hermione, don't you think?

Here is what I had posted a long time ago about the cat symbolism (from post #678, archived alchemy thread, post from 2004, before the HBP release):

"I was searching some details for the "cats" thread today when I realized that I had found something huge connecting cats, alchemy and Jo's site clues (the spinning top toy)!

We already talked about the phonetic cabbala and the puns authors used for hiding their ideas, which is exactly the case here. Do you know Charles Perrault's tales? I've discovered that all those tales are hiding alchemical symbolism. The original title of the "Mother Goose's tales" (I think they are called like that in English) is "Contes de ma Mère l'Oie" which is the first pun: Mère l'Oie means loi mère = mother law, that is to say the fundamental law (the connection between macrocosm and microcosm).

One of those tales is "Le chat botté". I don't know its title in English but that means "The cat with boots on" and there it becomes very interesting. The pun here is subtle: "chabot" stands for "sabot" (clog). Or sabot/clog is another name for the "toupie"/ the spinning top, which is an alchemical symbol! It represents mercury spinning into a balloon like jar, at the end of the work while mercury and sulfur become a conjunction.

This is maybe a proof that the little objects that we can see on Jo's site are very carefuly chosen and may reveal some interesting clues! Hollywand, this is exactly what you had sensed for ages: how right were you!

We already know that the cat symbol is important in HP, Jo said it herself as Ann quoted her on the "cats" thread: "Is there something more to the cats appearing in the books than first meets the eye? (i.e. Mrs. Figg's cats, Crookshanks, Prof. McGonagall as a cat, etc.)"

"Ooooo, another good question. Let's see what I can tell you without giving anything away....erm....no, can't do it, sorry." (the Scholastic chat, October 16, 2000).

Well, there is even more about the cat in alchemy: it is a solar symbol because its whiskers looks like sunbeams. In the "chat botté" again, the cat is the servant of the marquis of Carabas, which is another pun with "bas carat" (bas=low, carat=carat), that is to say that the cat is the servant of gold, in a word, the symbol that leads to the philosophical gold!

So, the cats mentioned in the books may be seen as "signs" guiding Harry on the right path! Till now, the "McGonnagal cat" led him to quidditch, Mrs Norris led him first to the basilisk, Crookshanks led him to Sirius and to discover the truth..."

The sock is a journey symbol, the bulrushes then IMO symbolize the fact that in order to move on that path, Harry has to follow the Mercurial way, and also that the "cats" references will show him the way.

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Elanor - Jul 27, 2007 8:10 am (#1893 of 2155)
Continuing the first analysis of the DH based on what we posted before its release:

(All quotes in blue font in this post and our next "few", are from the posts #1859 to #1861 of the main Alchemy thread.)

“* Rubedo is also the "Reign of Mars", therefore all things Mars related, including what happens on Tuesdays, or things made of iron, will be important. Mars is also bound to war and the two symbols will be entwined in the DH. Many plants are also bound to Mars (like hawthorn, the wood Draco's wand is made of); they, and the ones bound to the sun (the planet of the 7th step of our journey) will be interesting to spot. To these plants, mandrake can also be added as said in a previous post.”
One of the most interesting iron/Reign of Mars symbols is presented when just after his rebirth, Harry feels “every inch of him ached, and the place where the Killing Curse had hit him felt like the bruise of an iron-clad punch” (ch. 36, “The Flaw in the Plan”, p.724). The AK which sealed Harry’s inner conjunction and marks the achievement of Harry’s inner journey is bound to the iron symbolism: the Reign of Mars, achieved Rubedo is reached.

As for Draco’s wand, to say it’s been important in the DH is an understatement.

Mandrakes are also present as Neville carries some during the Battle of Hogwarts, shouting the word “mandrake” and saying he is ready to “lob them over the walls” (ch.31, “The Battle of Hogwarts”, p.621, Sch.), adding the ouroboros symbolism to the mandrake one (a reference to Draco becoming a “man-dragon”, an adult in the DH).

“Based on the rubedo entry of L.Abraham's book, here are also a few interesting details which may come to be important in the DH:
- During the rubification of the Stone, the light of dawn develops "into the golden illumination of the midday sun. [...] With the fixation, crystallisation and embodiement of the eternal spirit, form is bestowed upon the pure, but as yet formless, matter of the Stone.".”

This statement matches very well the sun rising on Harry’s final victory as said earlier in a previous post.

“[...] - During that process, the "heat of the fire is increased". I think this does imply a particularly interesting role of the Weasleys (and we may find the salamander symbol again), especially Ron (the "maroon" symbolism - which is also connected to Slughorn and Dobby as Slughorn is wearing a maroon velvet jacket the first time we see him in the HBP and Dobby wears a maroon sweater which belonged to Ron). Percy [called "Peter"/stone by Draco in CoS] Ignatius (based on the Latin for fire) should be important too, and Charlie with his dragon connection. Ron and Percy's fates do seem to me to be bound to some kind of sacrifice they will make at some point.
As the heat of the fire of the symbolic Great Work is increased, the pace of the book increases as well, especially when compared to the pace of the previous books of the series. Many fire/cooking symbols are also dispatched in the book, which we’ll point out during the re-read, and we do find the color maroon [which comes from the name of a firework] bound to Ron, and passed down from Ron to Dobby. As for Percy, he did redeem himself in the end and become “Peter Ignatius” for good.

Though Ron did not literally sacrifice himself, his travail was to wander through a figurative wildeness alone without Harry or Hermione and then to face his inner demons before conquering the locket. Percy’s sacrifice was the sacrifice of his pride.

“- The rubification is sometimes "likened to blushing" and to "staining with blood" or to "the dyeing of a white garnment". The blood detail is particularly ominous for Harry but symbolically the king is to "resurrect" in the end. Incidentally, when this happens, the king is supposed to wear a diadem on his head... Here we find the tiara again?
Harry is portrayed bleeding thoughout the book and some of these bleedings are particularly meaningful. Actually, the first sentence of chapter 2, “In Memoriam”, the one in which Harry enters the last stage of his journey, begins with this wonderfully symbolic sentence “Harry was bleeding.” (p.13). Incidentally, this is the first time in the whole series that Harry does not starts the book in a “dead position” (he wasn’t at the very beginning of CoS either but the symbolism was identical since Harry had to pretend “not to exist”). In the HBP Harry reaches the achieved Albedo, he is now “beyond” the (alchemical) death symbolism of Nigredo.

Another particularly telling “bleeding” scene in the DH, Harry bites himself until he bleeds as Snape is murdered.

Harry finds the diadem/tiara before he is born again and although he is not crowned with it; as a symbol is still well present.

Nick and Elanor

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Luna Logic - Jul 27, 2007 8:25 am (#1894 of 2155)
Many thanks for bulrushes and cats ! (Hope I'm not disturbing the thread)As I'm only at the beginning of the journey (Harry's journey...) I 'll just add a thought about the precedent reflexion about socks, bulrushes and cat tails :
Elanor : "So, the cats mentioned in the books may be seen as "signs" guiding Harry on the right path! Till now, the "McGonnagal cat" led him to quidditch, Mrs Norris led him first to the basilisk, Crookshanks led him to Sirius and to discover the truth..."
Elanor : The sock is a journey symbol, the bulrushes then IMO symbolize the fact that in order to move on that path, Harry has to follow the Mercurial way, and also that the "cats" references will show him the way.
And in Book 7, Harry will have to follow the Umbrige cat's trail to find the locket!

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septentrion - Jul 28, 2007 2:40 am (#1895 of 2155)
I've lost track of the main alchemy thread but I try to keep up with this one.

I've found an essay about Snape and his own personal journey email me for the link. It's not related to alchemy, but I thought some of the ideas within (especially the parallel between the doe Patronus scene and Snape's internal journey) might inspire the brillant people who post here.

I removed a tag that linked to site that is inappropriate for the Forum. Feel free to email Septentrion for the link. I added the italics in her post.--Catherine

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Phelim Mcintyre - Jul 28, 2007 6:34 am (#1896 of 2155)
How does the Ravenclaw common room being at the top of a vertigo inducing tower fit in with alchemy? Isn't Ravenclaw the "air house"? If so this fits? Yes or no?

Edit - was it only me or did Deathly Hallows have a feel of Da Vinci Code about it?

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septentrion - Jul 28, 2007 8:51 am (#1897 of 2155)
I'm sorry for the link, I didn't think to check if there were inappropriate material in the LJ where the essay can be read. As Catherine said, you can mail me at septentrion at laposte dot net to have the link.

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Solitaire - Jul 30, 2007 9:50 am (#1898 of 2155)
In the Chapter 1 thread, Kevin Corbett questioned the use of peacocks at Malfoy Manor. Aren't peacocks alchemical symbols? How would white peacocks, in particular, be explained in the context of that chapter?
Solitaire

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Esther Rose - Jul 30, 2007 11:30 am (#1899 of 2155)
I would also like to point out that the Griffindor Sword was used 3 times to destroy a Horcrux.

1. Dumbledore - Peverell Ring in his office.

2. Ron - Slytherin Locket in the woods after he pulled it out of water.

3. Neville Longbottom - Nagini at the front steps in front of Hogwarts after he pulls it out of the flaming sorting hat.

We could say that the Sword had something to do with destroying the Diary Horcrux since it would have been extremely hard to get a fang out of a live Basilisk.

I was kind of thinking that, Neville pulled the sword out of fire, Ron pulled the sword out of water, that perhaps the other two would have an element attached to them as well.

Dumbledore - Air

Harry - Earth

Thoughts?

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Elanor - Jul 30, 2007 2:00 pm (#1900 of 2155)
Great thoughts everybody! The link between the elements and the sword is very interesting Esther. Harry is underground when he receives the sword, so having the scene linked to the earth element does make sense!

About the white peacock, the peacock is indeed an alchemical symbol: the peacock's tail represents the multicolored moment which happens just before the completion of the Albedo. The white peacock can thus symbolize three things:

- First, that the White is achieved since peacock has "turned" white.

- Second, each time the white peacock is shown in the book (in chapter 1 and later when Greyback brings Harry to the Manor), we could say that the matter at hand is Harry's "transfer". Each time either the information about Harry or Harry himself has to go beyond the white peacock, as Harry has to go beyond the White and reach the true Red.

- Finally, the color white is bound to the moon/mercurial principle and the Mercury principle is bound to the Malfoys too as we often said on the main alchemy thread (the water/Slytherin connection, the white-blond hair, etc.)

I don't have all my books handy right now but I'll search more about the peacock symbolism in due course.

Septentrion, great to see you posting and we'll be delighted to read that editorial.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Elanor - Jul 30, 2007 2:05 pm (#1901 of 2155)
More thoughts about the DH:

(All quotes in blue font in this post are from the posts #1859 to #1861 of the main Alchemy thread.)

"- It is also interesting to notice that "within the whiteness the red is hidden". Alchemist Benjamin Lock even said: "rednes is hid in his center as the soul", which makes me wonder once again about Harry's scar being a Horcrux and him getting rid of it being a key moment in the DH. This can also be a hint to the fact that Harry already knows what will make his quest successful, even if he doesn’t realize it fully yet."

Harry's reaching a true understanding of the meaning of what Dumbledore, the Albedo mentor, has told and left Harry is one of the keys of the DH, just as Harry will need to be fully aware of his power and the choices he must make. The Horcrux/soul symbolism is also well present.

However, there is in the DH an image which does seem to really embody the "within whiteness the red is hidden" idea. Inside DD's White Tomb is hidden the Elder Wand, which will prove to be Voldemort's downfall in the end and Harry's quest: the achieved Rubedo. In the same way, when Harry goes to DD's office in order to "read" Snape's memories in the Pensieve, the headmaster's office password is "Dumbledore" giving the office once again the Dumbledore/White influence; the Red will come from that "white" moment.

* Some other Rubedo connected symbols we may find: - The Elixir of Life was also called: "Aurum Potabile", that is "drinkable gold" [...] The Elixir of Life was also called "the pure essence of love" - and this will be a key symbol of the DH
We've already mentioned this symbol in the post # 7 of this thread

- The idea of harvest is also bound to the completion of the Great Work (how not to think of Hermione Granger's role?), the autumn is also (as the leaves turn gold) as is the tree of the philosophers bearing gold and silver fruits (incidentally, all citrus trees are connected to the sun).
Hermione's role in the "harvest" is indeed crucial, she being at Harry's side all book long. The decorations she provides for Harry's birthday illustrate the fall/golden fruits symbolism as well. After conjuring "purple and gold streamers", "with a final flourish of her wand, Hermione turned the leaves on the crabapple tree to gold." (Ch.7, "The Will of Albus Dumbledore", p.118, Sch.) The flowery movement on the Crabapple (a moon/crab and rose reference since apple trees belong to the same species as roses – its flowers are white, pink and red) which fruits are turn gold are highly symbolic.

- The DH should also be the "book of the fathers" just like the HBP was "the book of the mothers" and the characters' fathers' influence should be important in it.

Although we don't hear much more about Harry or Voldemort's fathers, the idea of fatherhood is very present, beginning with Lupin becoming a father (and Harry becoming a godfather), and Harry and Ron in the epilogue. Most of the epilogue indeed focuses on Harry's relationship with his children, especially Albus Severus Potter (ASP) (and once again, not on Harry's relationship with Ginny BTW)..

Nick and Elanor

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Suleiman - Jul 30, 2007 2:28 pm (#1902 of 2155)
Esther, nice catch. Of course the other two are bound to earth (the chamber deep in the bowels of Hogwarts), and air (Dumbledore's office high in the tower at the top of the spiral staircase).

Further there is some correlation between the element and the horcrux. The snake (water) is killed by the fire sword, the "white hot" locket with the fiery images is killed by the water sword, the air sword breaks the stone and the earth sword indirectly destroys the not quite corporeal Riddle.

By the way does JKR explain how the sword got from the goblins back in the sorting hat for Neville to find?
Sule

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Mediwitch - Jul 30, 2007 7:10 pm (#1903 of 2155)
Sort of. This is what she said in the webchat:

Su: How did neville get the gryfindor sword, is there a link to the hat

J.K. Rowling: Yes, there is very definitely a link to the hat!

J.K. Rowling: Neville, most worthy Gryffindor, asked for help just as Harry did in the Chamber of secrets, and Gryffindor’s sword was transported into Gryffindor’s old hat

J.K. Rowling: – the Sorting Hat was Gryffindor’s initially, as you know.

J.K. Rowling: Griphook was wrong – Gryffindor did not ‘steal’ the sword, not unless you are a goblin fanatic and believe that all goblin-made objects really belong to the maker.

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megfox* - Jul 30, 2007 7:18 pm (#1904 of 2155)
So, to complete what Jo is hinting at (I think), the Hat could make the sword appear out of thin air, no matter where it was located or who has possession of it. It was rightfully Gryffindor's, not the goblins - just because they believe does not make it so - and he gave that power to the Hat, whether it was the power to conjure up the sword when it was needed or to just give help to a Gryffindor who needed help, I guess we won't know. But it does seem too much of a coincidence that Harry and Neville both get the sword for it to be the latter. Does that make sense? I mean, if Hermione asked the hat for help, would she have gotten a library book?


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TomProffitt - Jul 31, 2007 6:14 am (#1905 of 2155)
I mean, if Hermione asked the hat for help, would she have gotten a library book? --- megfox*

No, Hermione being a true Gryffindor would have gotten the sword as well. And very disappointed she would have been.

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Elanor - Jul 31, 2007 5:33 pm (#1906 of 2155)
What is important to remember is also the alchemical meaning of the sword which, as any other "weapon", makes the matter of the Stone bleed, that is allows the Rubedo to take place. The rubies on the sword reinforce that symbolism as ruby is also a name for the Philosopher's Stone. In other words, each time the sword is used it is an additional step on Harry's road to finally being the Stone, whether he is the one using the sword or not.

The sword symbol was already present in CoS where it was the instrument of Harry's CoS's journey Rubedo.

************

Some last thoughts about the DH as compared to what we posted before its release:

"- The ouroboros symbol will of course be particularly important and all that is related to it: circles, the number 10, snake/dragon "biting their own tails" (symbolically), squares becoming circles... "
So many ouroboros situations in the DH! It is impossible to list them all here right now (even the first book's jokes are mirrored and ouroboros-like in the DH!). The most important ones however may be Hagrid as the one coming to take Harry out of 4 PD on Sirius's motorcycle, Draco (and his mother) not giving Harry away, Draco losing his wand to Harry (the dragon bites its tail, allowing Harry to reach the Rubedo), and Harry and Voldemort "[circling] each other" continuously during their last duel. The sentences: "still they circled each other, wrapped in each other" (p.739, Chapter 36, The Flaw in the Plan Sch. ) and later "the golden flames that erupted between them, at the dead center of the circle they had been treading, marked the point where the spells collided. (p.743, ibid., Sch.) even mix the conjunction and ouroboros images in a wonderful way. It will be a huge, great and fun task to list the ouroboros-like situations of the DH in the re-read!

"I would add to that that I think it is likely that we'll see Dedalus Diggle again in the DH. And that the last chapter will mirror the very first of the series (I still think that "The Man Who Lived" would be a great title for the last chapter.). "
We do see Dedalus Diggle in the DH as he is coming to fetch the Dursleys at the beginning of the book. He was mentioned the night Harry arrives at 4 PD and is present when he leaves it.

The last part of the DH does mirror the very beginning as Harry, sacrificing himself, gives his friends the same protection his mother gave him when she sacrificed herself for him. It is also a rebounding AK which hits Voldemort again.

The last chapter is not called "The Man Who Lived" however, it is called "Nineteen Years Later" and 19, 1+9, is 10, that is the ouroboros number again. It would also be the 37th chapter of the book, another reference to the number 10.

"In the same way, I would not be surprised at all if we’d find the words "Cauda Draconis" (the dragon's tail) at some point, to mirror the "Caput Draconis" Gryffindor password of PS/SS - both being alchemical (and geomancy) symbols. "
Although the words "Cauda Draconis" (Dragon's Tail, that is the Ouroboros) are not mentioned in the DH per se, we do find the very same idea in the only House passwords which are given in the book, those for Ravenclaw House. Harry and Luna have to answer the question: "Which came first, the phoenix or the flame?" to which Luna's answer is "a circle has no beginning", which is the exact image of the ouroboros.
A moment later, McGonagall is asked: "Where do Vanished objects go?" and she answers: "Into nonbeing, which is to say, everything" (Chaps. 29 and 30, p.587 and 591, Sch.), which is a very alchemical idea and nothing being everything a wonderful circle/ouroboros image as well.

(To be finished in the next post)

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Elanor - Jul 31, 2007 5:35 pm (#1907 of 2155)
"- During the rubification, the multiplication and projection processes take place (which is what Basil Valentine calls Coagulation). During multiplication, "all the colours of the opus are said to appear in rapid succession" (L.Abraham, p.132), as more solve et coagula cycles take place. Some symbols bound to that process include the pelican feeding her young with her own blood (here we find the idea of sacrifice again), and the hydra (which makes me think of Snape saying that fighting the Dark Arts is like fighting "a many-headed monster", p.177)."
Suleiman has already mentioned some projection symbols found in the DH. The multiplication symbolism is present too, with the "7 Potters" scene and the Gringotts one as posted about already.

"- In the end, peace, the "harmonious state attained when the opposing principles of the opus, sulphur [...] and argent vive [i.e. Mercury] [...] are united" (L.Abraham, p.141) should crown Harry's journey."
The book ends with a very peaceful scene and these words: "All was well." (p.759, Sch.). JKR has stressed in interviews since the release of the DH how the idea of Harry living in peace after Voldemort's death was the main thing. Peace is what achieving the Rubedo brought him, and the Wizarding World.

We also often said that the "reconciliation of the enemies" was a key symbol of the achieved Great Work and this symbol can be seen in the epilogue: Harry has given his son Severus's name and even Draco "nodded curtly" when seeing Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. Harry telling his son that it doesn't matter if the Sorting Hat makes him a Slytherin ("the Slytherin House will have gained an excellent student" says Harry – p.758, Sch.) also marks the "reconciliation of the enemies", and the Harmony-like way in which Harry now sees the Houses.

"* Finally, let's not forget that the final conjunction produces "pure love (the child, the Stone)" (L.Abraham, p.35). IMO, one can never stress enough the importance of Love as a binding, prodding, saving force in the series. Harry, as the Stone-to-be, symbolically is the living force of love. Hence why Love is Harry's most powerful weapon, and why Voldemort will fail in the end: Harry will have reached the end of the symbolic Great Work and become the Stone/pure Love. Voldemort does not know love, he can't achieve his own "quest".
When Harry will finally reach inner conjunction, he will then symbolically become "pure love" - and then be able to send Voldemort in the void of his love-less soul – an empty shell."
Which is exactly what happens. It is out of love that Harry sacrifices himself and love is what Harry and Voldemort talk about during their last duel, Lily's love, DD's love for Harry and Snape's love for Lily.

As for Voldemort, he is described in death as Harry's "enemy's shell", the word "shell" adding an ascent symbolism for Harry to the moment.

Nick and Elanor

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Esther Rose - Aug 1, 2007 7:33 am (#1908 of 2155)
One more note about the sword. There is a lot of "waiting" going on in this book until "and I am assuming this" we reach Quintessence in Gringotts.

We have earth where Bellatrix's vault is of the highest security at the lowest levels of the vault. We have water in which washes Hermione and Ron of their disguises. We have air when Hermione uses the levicorpus spell to lift Harry up far enough to reach the Hufflepuff Horcrux Cup. And we have fire since there was a spell to burn the hands that would touch any treasure vault. (Fire and Air could also be represented by the blind Dragon.) and the quintessence element would then be the Griffindor Sword since it was crucial in being able to reach the cup.

It took four elements for the trio to escape Gringotts Vault safely. Water being the final element as the trio jumps from the dragon's back.

Its is interesting to say that Harry does not receive the information he needs about the last Horcrux until after he achieves this feat. Voldemort reveals to Harry that the last element is at Hogwarts. And it is at this point where the war really begins.

I must also say that it was interesting that the trio was surrounded by gold that multiplied. Any thoughts on this.

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journeymom - Aug 2, 2007 3:12 pm (#1909 of 2155)
A small observation, not profound, but it fits. The Dursleys have left Harry he watches from his bedroom window. "The car turned right at the end of Privet Drive, its window burned scarlet for a moment in the now setting sun, and then it was gone."

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Elanor - Aug 5, 2007 10:32 pm (#1910 of 2155)
Nice observations everybody!

Well, I am back in France! I was thinking of what we had posted a few days ago about starting a re-read of the DH from an alchemical point of view.

I removed the last three paragraphs of Elanor's post and moved the three to be a part of my Aug 7, 2007 2:49 am post on the # Questions for the Host(s) thread. Please check there for Elanor's inquiry and my response.

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TheSaint - Aug 6, 2007 6:03 am (#1911 of 2155)
Elanor - Although the words "Cauda Draconis" (Dragon's Tail, that is the Ouroboros) are not mentioned in the DH per se, we do find the very same idea in the only House passwords which are given in the book, those for Ravenclaw House. Harry and Luna have to answer the question: "Which came first, the phoenix or the flame?" to which Luna's answer is "a circle has no beginning", which is the exact image of the ouroboros.

Reading Harry's first vision from Volde...waking up on the bathroom floor only inches from the tail of the silver serpent supporting the bathtub, I smiled as I thought 'Bite!'

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icthestrals - Aug 10, 2007 8:04 am (#1912 of 2155)
Quoted from post #27: Finally, the color white is bound to the moon/mercurial principle and the Mercury principle is bound to the Malfoys too as we often said on the main alchemy thread (the water/Slytherin connection, the white-blond hair, etc.)-Elanor

Just my observation that Luna and Mr Ollivander (moon eyes) are in the Malfoys' cellar. Another moon reference. If I remember right, both have white/blond hair also.

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Elanor - Aug 10, 2007 11:28 pm (#1913 of 2155)
They have icthestrals! And as all the Mercury-bound characters of the series, they are crucial to the resolution of Harry's quest. All series long, Harry is symbolically sort of "following the mercurial path". It wil be fun to identify all the mercury references of the DH in due course.

LOL about Harry's vision, The Saint! It took me a moment to remember where this scene happens: it is at 12GP, when Harry collapses in the bathroom. I think I will think "bite" each time I read this scene from now on!

On the "Mysterious Symbol on the DH Cover" thread, there is a discussion about what had been guessed, or not, about it before the DH release. I posted the following there, that I repost here as it is also relevant to the alchemy thread:

"We have not guessed what the symbols refer to (the Deathly Hallows) but I think that what we have written about what they symbolize was spot on.

On the alchemy thread, we said (in short...), that the symbol represents unity - the One- that is the symbolic achieved Great Work and the ouroboros. Only when Harry gets the third of the Hallows (Voldemort's wand), and is therefore the one master of the Three Deathly Hallows, is his journey over, his "Great Work" complete. He is One, the series' ouroboros/full circle is reached.

Incidentally, it is very telling, IMO, that Jo describes Harry catching Voldemort's wand "with the unerring skill of the Seeker" (p.744, Sch.): the Quidditch/Seeker of Gold metaphor is one we mentioned very often on the alchemy thread too."

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Suleiman - Aug 11, 2007 7:38 pm (#1914 of 2155)
Ah, it's good to be home.

Elanor, re "Only when Harry gets the third of the Hallows (Voldemort's wand), and is therefore the one master of the Three Deathly Hallows, is his journey over, his "Great Work" complete. He is One, the series' ouroboros/full circle is reached."

Actually Harry is master of the wand from the time he defeats Malfoy and takes his wand. He is master of all three Hallows, master of Death, when he retrieves the stone from the snitch (again with the Quidditch), and goes to face Voldemort. By the time Harry faces Volde again he has no need of the wand, and has progressed beyond confrontation with Voldemort to understanding, he can afford to offer mercy, and has the same sense of somewhat bemused condescension that DD shows in the Ministry at the end of OOTP. Voldemort is a pitiable fool whose power is an illusion.

The symbolism of the Hallows is obviously tied to the three principles, the male linear stick (death), female circular stone (life) and the (vanishing) cloak which McGonagall tells us is everything and nothing (beyond place and time). Polarity, reconciliation (a circle has no end) and unity.

I think when we fully understand the Hallows we will have a much better grasp of Jo's view of alchemy.
Sule

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Elanor - Aug 11, 2007 9:59 pm (#1915 of 2155)
I do agree Suleiman! (And welcome home!)

I expressed myself badly in my previous post, sorry. Harry is the master of the Hallows when he goes to his death in the forest - and there happens Harry's inner conjunction - but once re-born and One, the journey is not over yet, he has to face the "outside" conjunction so to speak, the one with Voldemort. Harry is already the master of the Wand as the duel begins but only when he seizes it is the journey truly achieved and Voldemort vanquished.

In a way, especially considering the impact of Voldemort's death on the Wizarding World, Harry's inner conjunction could be seen as the microcosmic one and the final one with Voldemort as the macrocosmic one. The first one would not have been possible without Harry being the master of the three Hallows (and here the Stone is the last Hallow for Harry to master, which he does by accepting death) and the macrocosmic one is truly completed when Harry physically obtains the Wand. Would it make sense said that way?

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Esther Rose - Aug 13, 2007 6:10 am (#1916 of 2155)
Actually, I think Harry becomes the master of the Hallows when he buried Dobby at Shell Cottage. The Hallows become unified when Harry goes into the forest. A subtle difference but it took a death to make one man the master of all three Hallows, it took Harry going to his "death" to unify the three.

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Phoenix - Aug 15, 2007 4:25 pm (#1917 of 2155)
Eleanor, I think I get it - A 'spiritual' transformation takes place, then it manifests 'physically', and the uniting of the spiritual and physical defeats Voldemort?

I agree that a transformation definitely took place when Harry buried Dobby, perhaps a sort of a 'part I', where Harry faces the death of someone close and has to actually deal with it - and he does it beautifully. But I do think that before he truly became 'master', he had to not only face death of people around him, but he had to be willing to face his own death as well. -- Only then could he open the snitch. --Well, just my opinion.

Suleiman, you made an excellent point! I think you're right, but I would go further - it would represent JKR's outlook on life itself. (On this thread, are they one and the same? )

I also love the symbolism you came up with for the Hallows. In thinking about the them, I had a bunch of thoughts I can't quite connect:

The ressurection stone - the trial of the Peverell brother that obtained the stone reminded me of Harry's first encounter with the Mirror of Erised. Harry overcame that trial, but when Sirius died, he went to a mirror hoping to see Sirius in it. --Obviously, there is a mirror connection going on here. In addition, he hoped Sirius would come back as a ghost. The Mirror of Erised reflects one's deepest desire, and Harry saw his loved ones. Similarly, the Peverell brother brings back a loved one. And, clearly, neither work out in life. 'Coincidentally', Harry gets the PS by not having selfish motives, and Harry at the end uses the Resurrection stone to help him make the ultimate sacrafice - again, unselfish motive. And both are stones.

There are a lot of connections here, but I can't quite see why mirrors are part of it. The PS and Resurrection Stone are sort of similar in that one extends the physical life, while the other brings back those who have already died. --Issues all around death and coping with it, it seems. But why? and why use stones? --I just had a thought - stones represent the earth, which represents death and rebirth?

I'm still working out my thoughts on the other two hallows. Anyways, thanks for listening, and if you have any thoughts, I would appreciate it!

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Suleiman - Aug 16, 2007 9:58 pm (#1918 of 2155)
Phoenix, the mirror shows what is hidden.

And the most important thing which is hidden in the gnostic/neoplatonic world of alchemy is our divine nature as parts of the world soul. When we die we return to the blissful unity of the One Soul, but until then we have a job to do on earth giving life to the divine plan. Unfortunately most of us forget our divine nature and get trapped in the "real world". Our job as alchemists is to break those ties that blind us to ultimate truth and reclaim our divine powers as the binding agent that gives form to gross matter.

The PS and the resurrection stone both do the same thing, they project the pure undifferentiated matter of the soul onto physical matter and give control over its form, they allow the adept to free and fix the volatile soul bit that determines the form of matter be it lead or gold or Lily.

Harry uses the resurrection stone not to trap once more on earth those who have been freed from their mortal bonds, but to summon a welcoming committee to see him home. He is now fully conscious of his divine nature, but also capable of choosing to remain on earth and fulfill his obligations there.

The stone is the unity of spirit soul and matter in their pure and undivided forms, it is not earth in the normal or even elemental sense.
Sule

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Phoenix - Aug 16, 2007 11:00 pm (#1919 of 2155)
Suleiman, thank you so much for that answer...it's answered questions I didn't know I had. It's good that you, Eleanor, Nick, and everybody does this -- there is so much to learn. Again, thank you.

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Elanor - Aug 17, 2007 1:04 am (#1920 of 2155)
That's a wonderful thread! And it's always such a pleasure to post here.

A few more thoughts to add to what Suleiman has nicely said:

The alchemical mirror shows what is hidden. In PS/SS, Harry was seeing himself retrieving the Stone from his pocket. But the true Stone is himself and it takes him the rest of his journey to really see himself and become One.

I do agree about Harry not having selfish motives and it does recall Dumbledore telling Harry he had to want to "find it [the Stone], not use it" in order to be able to retrieve the Stone from the mirror.

Incidentally, I think it is very significant that, after Harry is so much tempted by getting the Hallows for himself, he is caught and brought to Malfoy Manor where he is: "facing a mirror over the fireplace, a great gilded thing in an intricately scrolled frame. Through the slits of his eyes he saw his own reflection for the first time since leaving Grimmauld Place" (p.457, Sch.).
Shortly after, Dobby comes saving him and the others and dies. As Harry digs his grave: "understanding blossomed in the darkness" [...] "Hallows... Horcruxes... Hallows... Horcruxes... Yet he no longer burned with that weird, obsessive longing. Loss and fear had snuffed it out: He felt as though he had been slept awake again." (p.479, Sch.)

Once again, the mirror symbolizes Harry seeing what is hidden in himself (the same symbolism was at play in the Sectumsempra chapter of the HBP, as posted here, post #1759 for example) and making the right choice. Like a signpost for a crucial realization and inner transformation moment.

About the Stone, I think it is also very important to remember that it is set on a ring, a circular object, and that Harry has to turn over that ring in his hand in order to have it work: the circle is closing, the series' ouroboros is about to take place.
(Edited to add the link to the Sectumsempra chapter post)

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Elanor - Aug 18, 2007 12:07 pm (#1921 of 2155)
Another thought came to me after posting this yesterday: there are more ouroboros symbols bound to the ring than the ones I have listed here: the fact that the ring was in the round golden Snitch and the "riddle" written on it "I open at the close". The closing and opening closely associated, how ouroboros-like is that?

I have also just posted this on the Horcruxes thread and I thought I would post it here also (and add a few thoughts to it here):

"I have just realized something while re-reading the DH, (the part when Harry wonders what the Horcrux belonging to Ravenclaw must be). I remembered the "mantra" Harry kept reciting to himself in the HBP:

"the locket... the cup... the snake... something of Gryffindor's or Ravenclaw's"

And I realized that there was also something of Gryffindor's among the Horcruxes in the end: Harry.

The four Elements/Houses were indeed present in the Horcruxes, and united in their destruction. In fact, they were even destroyed by another house emblem or element, two by two bound to fire and water (the alchemical principles Harry had to unite in his inner conjunction):

--> the Ravenclaw Tiara and Slytherin Locket by fire/the Gryffindor (Fire connected) sword

--> The Hufflepuff Cup and Gryffindor Harry's part of Voldemort's soul by the Basilisk's fang (Slytherin's monster) and Voldemort himself both, as Slytherins, connected to the water element."

In other words, the "weapons" destroying the 4 Elements connected Horcruxes are bound to fire and water, that is to the Sulphur and Mercury principles. They are united in "nothingness" ("Into nonbeing which is to say everything", McGonagall's answer to the "Where do Vanished objects go?" question, Sch.p.591, keeps coming to my mind when thinking of it). United by Sulphur/Mercury bound processes...

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Phoenix - Aug 28, 2007 8:50 am (#1922 of 2155)
Eleanor, thanks so much for posting the added symbolism regarding the mirror! It gave me a more complete understanding. If I could add to what you said regarding Harry's reflection, the description of Harry's face reads:

"His face was huge, shiny, pink,...."

--It kind of reminded me of a pig, perhaps that he was being 'piggish' in his desire for the Hallows?

And you noted in the Sectumsempra chapter that Snape does the incantation 3 times. I noted in the first chapter, Snape sees Charity Burbage's face 3 times before Voldemort kills her in this post - Phoenix, "+ Literary Symbolism in HP & the Deathly Hallows" #44, 7 Aug 2007 8:01 am - I would be interested in your thoughts...

Your post on the horcruxes is fascinating! -Although, honestly, I'm not sure I fully understand the implications alchemically... The 'cancelling out', so to speak of the horcruxes is necessary to purify the stone? The horcruxes would represent a material that needs to be disposed of? ...but then it also becomes not only 'nothingness', but also 'everything'? I was wondering if this would be a connection to the number 8, the number Voldemort accidentally split his soul, instead of the 'magical 7' --The number 8 representing infinity?

I was also thinking the other horcruxes may apply as well: The diary came to life because of a Gryffindor soul - Ginny, and was destroyed by the basilisk fang; Nagini was destoyed by the sword; Voldemort himself was destroyed by Harry. The ring, I'm not sure of.

Thanks for indulging me yet again! Sorry I've not had a chance to respond sooner -- I see it's been awhile.

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Elanor - Aug 29, 2007 12:02 pm (#1923 of 2155)
Glad you liked it Phoenix!

That's a very good point you're bringing up with the number 8 symbolism, especially when thinking of the elements and the Horcruxes, because eight is two times four and its symbolism is bound to the number four symbolism (which is deeply connected to that of the four elements).

I've searched my Dictionary of Symbolism and it says that the number 8 symbolizes "cosmic balance" (hence also while the Justice card of the Tarot Major Arcana is sometimes the 8th; the Strength card is the 8th one when Justice is the 11th and both fit the end of the Wizarding World's war well). The number 8 as a symbol for infinity is the perfect illustration of that balance and of the idea of completion, and that of a new life starting, which are very appropriate ones for the end of Harry's quest.

Alchemically speaking, the number 8/infinity symbol also fits the idea of the "no-time" of the alchemists Harry has reached in the end.

The idea of balance is omnipresent when talking about the number 8. Balance, harmony, was Harry's symbolic goal, the one we were talking about when saying he had to unite the Hogwarts Houses. The destruction of the 8 parts of Voldemort's has brought back balance to the Wizarding World. This new "balance" is (IMO) subtly depicted at the end of the DH when Jo writes: "McGonagall had replaced the House tables, but nobody was sitting according to houses anymore." (p.745, Sch.)

So, destroying the 8 soul parts could be seen as 8 steps towards this final balance/harmony. Does it help?
*******
This wonderful thread has been pretty calm lately, what about starting the alchemical re-read of the DH sometime soon?
What do you think about it everybody?

Edit: I forgot to mention earlier that the "omnipresence" of the idea of balance was that of the Chevalier Dictionary entry about the number 8. Sorry if it was confusing!

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zelmia - Aug 29, 2007 1:20 pm (#1924 of 2155)
Yeah, let's start re-reading DH. I think it would be easier to spark a discussion and get into a flow.

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Phoenix - Aug 29, 2007 10:46 pm (#1925 of 2155)
Does it help? --Absolutely! Thanks again Eleanor! By the way, I came across a website that talks about the symbolism of numbers in various cultures. I thought you might find it of interest. --Hope it's useful! And thank you again!

...and, yes, definitely start the book!

I edited this post to take out the hot link. Please do not post hot links on the Forum to websites outside of it (except those that are allowed, like JKR's website, etc). Normally, we would instruct you to post this link behind your name - however, since we are asking that no one change their information while the servers are having their issues, if you would like to share this link, you could provide more information to help people google the site, or you could email it to people who are interested. If you have any other questions about this, please feel free to email me about it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Phoenix - Aug 30, 2007 7:34 am (#1926 of 2155)
Sorry - I'm currently clarifying the reason for the deletion of the link with Megfox - I want to make sure it's not considered 'family unfriendly' before I give more information.

In the meantime, anyone who is interested, feel free to e-mail me and I'll send on the link.

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Phoenix - Aug 30, 2007 8:39 am (#1927 of 2155)
Just got a note back from Megfox, and if you Google 'numerology' and click on a 'crystalinks' link, you should get the site. Again, it was full of great symbol information re: numbers from different cultures, including ancient ones. --They do make references to alchemical symbolism as well.

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Nicholas Schouten - Aug 30, 2007 8:34 pm (#1928 of 2155)
Great posts everyone; looking forward to starting the re-read soon.
-Nick

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Luna Logic - Aug 31, 2007 12:11 pm (#1929 of 2155)
I will try to follow the alchemical re-read of DH, with pleasure (and difficulties), and I'm looking forward to it.

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Elanor - Sep 1, 2007 10:51 pm (#1930 of 2155)
I think we're going to have lots of fun! Thanks for the information about that website Phoenix, I'll check it soon.

Maybe we should wait a few more days to see if other forumers want to join the re-read?

On a side note, yesterday Albus Dumbledore appeared as the new Wizard of the Month on Jo's site and I thought I would post here what I have posted on Jo's site's thread:

"After the 4 founders (for the 4 Elements), we have Dumbledore who is associated to the Quintessence symbol (the "5th" element, at the same time part of each element and above them as he is as a headmaster. His "bee" - "bumblebee" - "mead/honey", and "music" connections for example are also quintessence symbols). Purple is also the color symbolizing quintessence and on the Wizard of the Month's "card", Dumbledore is wearing... purple robes.

The fact he was 115 when he died is also telling: 1+1+5=7, THE symbolic number associated with the series! "

It seems there is a mistake in the date given for Dumbledore's death. I wonder if it is because Jo wanted him to be 115? The 1881 date of birth is interesting because it is a very ouroboros-looking-like date. It is also a date very bound to the number 9 - a symbol for perfection.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Sep 2, 2007 12:42 pm (#1931 of 2155)
I think the mistake for Dumbledore's death is simply a mistake because, If Dumbledore had been born in the autumn or winter of 1881 and died in the summer of 1997. he still would have been 115 years of age.

I agree the dates given for Dumbledore symbolize power and perfection two of the goals of alchemists,

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septentrion - Sep 3, 2007 10:37 am (#1932 of 2155)
I'll try to follow the rereading. I probably won't post much, but I'll read.

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Elanor - Sep 8, 2007 11:45 am (#1933 of 2155)
That's true Nathan!

Great to count you in the re-read Septentrion!

What about starting then? Here are a few first thoughts about the beginning of the chapter:

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

Chapter 1 – The Dark Lord Ascending
The first chapter’s title heralds the book’s ouroboros, from Voldemort’s short-lived “ascending” to power to Harry’s true ascent – that of his heart, spirit and soul which leads to Voldemort’s downfall and Harry renouncing the power Voldemort is hungry of, that of the Hallow Elder wand. Harry then renounces the wand “given by death” – a Nigredo wand in a way – for his “re-born” phoenix wand, a perfect Rubedo image for the achievement of his journey.

In that regard, it is interesting to see The Flaw in the Plan chapter as an echo of this first chapter. Indeed, which plan is truly flawed? Dumbledore’s or Voldemort’s? Even if not perfect, Dumbledore’s plan is based on his faith in Harry, and on Snape’s love for Lily while Voldemort only believes in the most powerful magic he knows, that of a wand (first trying to use Lucius's wand against Harry's and then searching for the Elder Wand) – “mundane magic” somehow, the magic of a wand powerful enough to make him what he thinks the "greatest" wizard should be.

Dumbledore’s magic, Snape’s magic, Harry’s magic, are driven by love (and remorse for Dumbledore and Snape) – no wand can match this magic. This is, IMO, the ultimate flaw in the plan, Voldemort’s inhability to love.

Several key symbols are present in this first chapter, beginning with the Albedo/mercurial connections which remind one that as the journey is resumed, the white process is just over. These white/Mercury-bound symbols also stress that the feminine principle is more than ever Harry’s path. And as to underline even more the journey symbolism, it is along a path that the DH journey begins, i.e. the path to Malfoy Manor, a family highly connected to the Mercury principle (beginning, as we often said about the previous books, with Draco and all his family according to him having been in Slytherin). These symbols are (emphasis added; all quotes from Scholastic edition, p.1 to 12):

- The first sentence of the chapter which describes two men appearing “in a narrow, moonlit lane” (the moon is an Albedo/Mercurial symbol), Snape and Yaxley.

- “The lane was bordered on the left by wild, low-growing brambles”. In alchemical charts of correspondances, brambles are bound to Mercury. They are also from the Rubus family, that is part of the great rose family. We can add to that that brambles are likely to imply berries, which are dark purple or red, giving a red/purple juice – which reminds one of the “purple tincture”, which is another name for the Elixir of life/Philosopher’s Stone. Therefore, the moonlit lane already heralds the fruits of the Rubedo.

But the symbol is even richer than that. Indeed, brambles mean thorns which are symbolically close to the thistles which, “ Like all spiky plants and THORNS generally, thistles symbolize protectiveness, ‘prickliness’, and the possibility of vengeance – as in the device of Scotland (whose emblem is the thistle): Nemo me impune lacessit (None touches me unharmed)” (A.Stevens, “Ariadne’s Clue”, p.390). The symbol fits Snape like a glove! Snape, walking on the path bordered with thorn bushes; Snape, Harry’s secret protector: none touches Snape unharmed – Voldemort should have known it...
(To be continued in the next post.)


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Elanor - Sep 8, 2007 11:49 am (#1934 of 2155)
Furthermore, the brambles are not without reminding one of Draco’s wand, made of hawthorn wood. In the light of the ultimate importance of Draco’s wand, I think it is worth repeating what I had posted about the hawthorn (and through it more generally speaking about the thorn symbolism) when Draco’s woodwand had been revealed, before the DH release:

From post #1676:
“[...]The "thorn" is also a symbol in alchemy, representing the "obstacle one has to clear in order to realize the Magistery" (L.Gineste, L'alchime expliquée par son langage) - a less positive symbol but one which fits well what Draco still represents for Harry as he enters the Red Book.
[...] Funnily enough, as I was just posting about runes a few days ago, "thorn" is also a rune (and "In Celtic lore, the hawthorn plant was used commonly for rune inscriptions along with Yew and Apple." (Wikipedia).) The Thorn rune, also called "thurizas", means the strong one, giant (incidentally, the hawthorn has the reputation of being a very hard and resistant wood which fits well this meaning).
The "Thorn is a force of simultaneous defense and destruction and the rune is symbolic of brambles or thorny busheswhich were used to enclose and protect boundaries or to conceal entrances to sacred or secret spaces. [...] a rune of testing and challenge, as well as protection and defense" and the symbol is bound to the "spindle" of the fairy tales, the Ariadne's thread, which we evoked about Spinner's End! So, the thorn symbolism brings us back to Snape and the thread symbolism as well (the "healing" meaning was also a heading in Snape's direction).

Finally, the ideas of trial, difficulty, exterior defense are also tradionally bound to the thorn symbolism - which applies well to both the Harry/Draco relationship and to Draco's own journey. The fact that the thorn symbolizes the idea "of having sour-tempered and unpleasant manners" (Chevalier-Gheerbrand, Dict. des Symboles) is also a nice way of telling what Draco's character is - even if, all in all, the hawthorn sheds a quite positive light on his final role in the series...”

The symbol is therefore shared by Draco and Snape and points out to the positive and eventual crucial role that will be theirs in the story. The thorny bushes border Snape’s path as he enters the story but symbolically thorny bushes have have bordered his path since Lily’s death, and they will till the end.

- In addition, Severus Snape is also Mercury bound (as a former head of Slytherin and Potions Master). He walking on that lane is the condition sine qua non for the “purple tincture” hinted at by the brambles(/berries) to be reached by Harry in the end. The other man incidentally is Yaxley who is possibly named after a village of the UK; the name, according to Wikipedia means “cuckoo-clearing”, the first “Fool” reference of the book? It may be good to keep an eye on Yaxley during our re-read...

- Snape and Yaxley go through the “wrought-iron gates” leading to the Manor. The iron reference recalls Mars (as iron is the metal connected to Mars), which is at the same time a “war” symbol and also a reference to the Reign of Mars, that is the Rubedo again. They walk through it “as though the dark metal were smoke” – a volatile/Mercurial reference which stresses how much this principle is crucial for reaching the Reign of Mars.

- Once beyond the gate, Snape and Yaxley see a white peacock. A few weeks ago, I had posted the following about this symbol:
“ About the white peacock, the peacock is indeed an alchemical symbol: the peacock's tail represents the multicolored moment which happens just before the completion of the Albedo. The white peacock can thus symbolize three things:
- First, that the White is achieved since peacock has "turned" white.
- Second, each time the white peacock is shown in the book (in chapter 1 and later when Greyback brings Harry to the Manor), we could say that the matter at hand is Harry's "transfer". Each time either the information about Harry or Harry himself has to go beyond the white peacock, as Harry has to go beyond the White and reach the true Red.
- Finally, the color white is bound to the moon/mercurial principle and the Mercury principle is bound to the Malfoys too as we often said on the main alchemy thread (the water/Slytherin connection, the white-blond hair, etc.)” (from post #1900)

- Once in the Manor, the “pale-faced portraits” of the Malfoy family are described. More “white” details are given when describing the Death Eaters’ meeting, from Voldemort being “so pale that he seemed to emit a pearly glow”, to Pettigrew leaving the room “leaving nothing behind him but a curious gleam of silver” and Lucius Malfoy whose skin appeared “yellowish and waxy” (emphasis added). Curiously enough, “pearl”, “silver” and “wax” are all Albedo symbols: as if to underline when, in the symbolic Great Work, the DH story starts?

(I will post more soon, especially about Lucius's wand, Charity Burbage and the Three Virtues, the Hanged Man symbolism in this first chapter and how Voldemort's words reveal his complete misunderstanding of what "ascending" truly is.)

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Luna Logic - Sep 8, 2007 11:46 pm (#1935 of 2155)
Great post to start with the re reading, Elanor!
The thorny bushes border Snape’s path as he enters the story but symbolically thorny bushes have have bordered his path since Lily’s death, and they will till the end. Very well said, and resuming Severus Snape's story. No sword for him - he couldn't slash out the thorny bushes, and did stay as a prisoner of this bitter path.
- I'm asking myself if young Severus's path was not the same thorny path- because, we see that he couldn't listen to Lily then. A prisoner of his own world and defences already?
Happy Birthday Elanor (one day after, for me!) Joyeux anniversaire!

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zelmia - Sep 13, 2007 1:46 pm (#1936 of 2155)
I would like to point out this image of "squaring the circle". It's shape is found in numerous emblems and architectural forms and is said to represent the Philosopher's Stone - especially the balance and unity needed to obtain it.
Remind you of anything?

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Elanor - Sep 16, 2007 11:09 am (#1937 of 2155)
It does Zelmia! The unity of the Deathly Hallows symbol (3=1) is one of the key images of the DH IMO.

Thanks Luna! And joyeux anniversaire too (a few days late, sorry!)

I was hoping to post the rest of my notes about the first chapter of the DH this weekend but unfortunately some unexpected (and dull) work has fallen on me and has taken all my time. But by the end of the week to come I will have them posted.

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Nicholas Schouten - Sep 22, 2007 9:12 pm (#1938 of 2155)
Very nice posts! Just some quick notes on sublimation for now since the first chapter title could be a reference to the process of sublimation:

1. In chemistry, sublimation of an element or compound is a transition from the solid to gas phase so rapidly that the liquid phase cannot be observed. Sublimation is a phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures below the triple point (that "magical" point at which a substance can simultaneously exist in all three phases: solid, liquid and gas).

2. In printing there is something called dye sublimation which is often used in color printing on a variety of substrates, including paper - a small heater is used to vaporize the solid dye material which then solidifies upon the paper.

3. Sublimation is also used to create freeze-dried substances, for example tea, soup or drugs in a process called lyophilization, which consists in freezing a solution or suspension and heating it very slowly under medium to high vacuum - specifically, a pressure lower than the vapor pressure of the solvent at its melting point. This can be well under the melting point of water if there are organic solvents or salts in the sample being freeze-dried. The resulting solid is usually much easier to dissolve or resuspend than one that is produced from a liquid system, and the low temperatures involved cause less damage to sensitive or reactive substances.

4. In traditional alchemy, sublimation typically refers to the process by which a substance is heated to a vapor, then immediately collects as sediment on the upper portion and neck of the heating medium (typically a retort or alembic)(and typically falls back as a solid).

I think we are seeing the process in which the Dark Lord is being heated to his "ascension". It is interesting that physically, the Dark Lord's (Ascension), as Chapter 1 is entitled practically climxes with "Charity fell, with a resounding crash" (last page of Chapter 1). Lord Voldemort destroys his enemy Charity, calling her a promoter of the thieves of knowledge and power.

It is also intersting that just as Charity is killed, the next chapter starts with "In Memoriam".
-Nick

PS: There could also be a psychological sublimation going on in this chapter, but I'd need more research to look into that aspect. Hmmm...

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Elanor - Sep 23, 2007 12:57 am (#1939 of 2155)
Great to see you posting again Nick! And IMO it is a very good idea to link the sublimation (and distillation) process to the first chapter's symbolism.

I've opened my "Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery" again to check what Lyndy Abraham was saying about sublimation and distillation and I think you were spot on. First, sublimation can be defined as a:

"process of refinement [...] achieved by rapid vaporization through applied heat [that is sublimation], followed by cooling and condensation".[distillation].

Also, "The beads of liquid which accumulate on the sides of the vessel during distillation are referred to as sweat or tears."".

More: "Metaphysically, the descent of the soul into dense matter is seen as a part of the necessary experience which leads to the ascent into full 'philosophical' consciousness.", which is illustrated by the famous alchemical adage: "the way down is the way up".

This does remind me of Charity Burbage's fate as you said Nick, when she is "crashing" on the table, and of her tears. Charity is one of the three theological virtues (we often mentioned on this thread and the previous one how the Three Virtues's symbolism was important in the series). Charity, as a virtue, is also known as "Love" and its symbol is a heart (the other ones are Faith (represented by a cross) and Hope (an anchor)).

The metaphysical "descent" in the "ascending" chapter is that of Charity, that is "Love". But Voldemort's ascent will never be complete because he fails to recognize Charity/love for what she is and he despises her.

On the other hand, another "dark lord" is present in that chapter: Snape, the "dark prince". I can't help but think of the "The Prince's Tale" chapter and Snape answering Dumbledore, who had asked him how many men and women Snape had watched die: "Lately, only those whom I could not save." (p.687, Sch.) and of other tears, Snape's, while reading Lily's letter and keeping her "love" and picture. In this first chapter, Charity calls Severus, pleads him. And all his actions, past and future show that he has truly listened to "Love" and let Love lead his life. If there is a "dark lord" that will be truly ascending in the DH, it is Snape, not Voldemort.

The bound between Snape and the sublimation/distillation processes is also present in another way in the DH: through the doe symbolism as explained here, post #1880.

Incidentally, the sublimation/distillation (as we had mentioned when re-reading the HBP) is also a symbol which charaterizes perfectly Dumbledore's death and funeral, a death Snape is responsible, though not guilty, of. A death which is the true link and transition between the HBP and the DH.

Nick: "It is also interesting that just as Charity is killed, the next chapter starts with "In Memoriam."
This is a great point! In a way, "In memoriam" is telling us, and all the characters: "remember Charity", that is "remember love". Those who will will truly "ascend" at the end of the series' journey.
I will post more later today.

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Elanor - Sep 23, 2007 9:36 am (#1940 of 2155)
One more detail about Snape as the true ascending “dark lord”/prince. After writing about this this morning, it made me think that Snape could be seen as the “Black Prince”, which is the nickname of a famous 14th century Prince of Wales: Edward of Woodstock (he was probably called the “Black Prince” after a black armor he used to wear). Funnily enough, at the end of his life, the Black Prince fought against his brother, John of Gaunt, who was really exercising power as the king Edward III was growing old. Curious, isn’t it?

Some more thoughts about chapter 1:

* In this chapter we also hear that Lucius Malfoy’s wand is made of elm wood, with a dragon heartstring core. The dragon of course is a reminder of the ouroboros symbol bound to the Malfoys but the elm wood is particularly significant.

First elm tree, in alchemy, is bound to Saturn – a connection that fits what mythology tells us about elm since for the Greeks elm tree was connected to the Underworld (an elm tree is said to have grown where Orpheus, after rescueing Eurydice from the Underworld, fatefully paused).

But elm tree is also sometimes said to be Hermes’s tree, probably because its fruits are wing-like (and Hermes’ feet were winged) and because Elm tree is also said to be the “perfect hermaphrodite”.

Furthermore, Elm tree’s fuits are called samaras and a samara fruit (according to Wikipedia) is also sometimes called “a key” (the Malfoys are and will be a “key” to the series’ resolution) or a “whirligig”. The samara/winged fruit is again a volatile/mercurial reference for the Malfoys but the symbol is even more profound. Indeed, a whirligig is also a kind of “spinning toy”, which symbolism we have evoked often on this thread (see post #640 for example). Representing “mercury spinning into a balloon-like jar, at the end of the work while mercury and sulfur become a conjunction.”. The top toy, like the hermaphrodite/Hermes reference also underlines the key role the Malfoys will play in the final conjunction of the book.
In addition, the whirligig also used to be a torture instrument: it was a cage in which people were suspended and the cage was spun: Charity Burbage is not in a cage but this definitely reminds one of her fate, don’t you think?

Incidentally, elm wood is also known for being resistant to decay when wet (hollowed elm trunks were even used as water pipes during the Middle-Ages), another very interesting Mercurial connection. It was also valued for its interlocking grain and its resistance to splitting which matches the Malfoy family well. These characteristics are the Malfoys’ only strength and what will save them in the end. Voldemort, who only cares about himself, will therefore not be able to use the elm wand at its best after borrowing it from Lucius.

* Once again, the Hanged Man position is displayed in the series and this time it is Charity Burbage who is hanging upside-down. Symbolically, the Hanged Man evokes the willing sacrifice one has to make on the road to individuation, that is to truly being One. Would then Charity – that is Love – being seen in the Hanged Man position symbolize the willing sacrifice Harry, but also Snape and many others, will eventually make, driven by Love? It seems to me that the image is particularly fitting.

* Voldemort’s sinister words “Dinner, Nagini” after Charity’s murder are also highly symbolic. The snake – an ouroboros symbol – is fed with Love, in other words, Love feeds the snake/ouroboros, this is another way of saying that Love will bring Voldemort’s defeat.

* Another stricking image of Voldemort failing to understand what ascending is is to be found in his remarks about Bellatrix having to “prune” her family tree and him adding, talking about those who are not pure-bloods “we shall cut away the canker that infects us”. This leads us back to the oak symbolism, the oak and its galls (also named “oak apple”) and kermes which give the “red dye” (that is the Elixir of Life/Stone). Galls and kermes are cankers, parasites, yet they stand in alchemy for the most precious matter. As I wrote in an older post (based on Fulcanelli’s writings): “Both oak apples and kermes refer to mercury but the first one refers to the raw mercury and the red kermes to the prepared material because the Philosophers' Mercury has to "dye".” (from post #949).

In other words, Voldemort despises Muggle-borns and other people who are not pure-blood and fails to undertand that they are the true “gold” of the Wizarding World. Charity knows that truth though and she wrote in the Daily Prophet what was, according to Voldemort, “an impassioned defense” of Muggle-borns. Voldemort, as represented by his vertical pupils, has a truncated vision of the Wizarding World, as if wearing symbolic blinders. Harry, on the contrary, with is round glasses, represents a vision that is whole, compassionate and able to see where (symbolic) true “gold” is. This lack of true vision is what will bring Voldemort’s downfall.

As for Harry, his physical eyesight is bad but his round glasses say otherwise symbolically and it seems to me that the Little Prince’s words: “It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye” could have been written for Harry. This true vision, that of the heart, is his strength and path.


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Phoenix - Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm (#1941 of 2155)
Fascinating posts! I do love reading this thread! Glad you guys are back!

I probably shouldn't do this because it never works, but I did find something humorous - If sublimation is at play here, the process of a substance vaporizing rapidly due to applied heat, and it applies to Voldemort, then this would be the alchemical process leading to "Vapormort"? (...I hope this works.)

I like the symbolism of Charity "crashing to the table", but in essence alchemically speaking, ascending. I was thinking that perhaps "the Dark Lord Ascending" would actually be the beginning of his decent. - I assume that if, as Eleanor pointed out, in alchemy "the way down is the way up", then conversely, the way up would be the way down? It would be a reversal.

Regarding psychological sublimation, that is defined as "The transfer of psychic energy into socially acceptable channels of endeavor." It seems comparable to alchemic sublimation in that it is the conversion of something into something else - yet its essense remains the same. In this chapter, I would have to say the most obvious would be Voldemort. In essence, he hates love, but he channels his hatred through the pure-blood mania, which is acceptable in many social circles in the wizarding world. This would be the 'vapor' he creates to cloud the truth, and the effect of this creates the 'tears'? Symbolically, it seems to work...

Anyways, I love the symbolism of Lucius' wand, and the "Dinner, Nagini" line! And regarding Harry's glasses, circles also represent the ouroborous, so perhaps in Harry's vision, he sees both the beginning and the end, or the complete circle?

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Elanor - Sep 26, 2007 6:06 am (#1942 of 2155)
Thanks Phoenix! It’s so good to see some activity on this thread again. Very good points you make, I particularly like the one about Harry’s glasses being ouroboros-like, it is spot on!

I would just like to add a few points about the Three Virtues symbolism because I think they will become a key element of our re-read of the DH. If you don’t mind, I would like to quote an old most of mine from the archived alchemy thread (I can’t believe this has been posted more than 2 and a half years ago!). We were then discussing the “love room” of the MoM and talking about Hope and Love:

“ Hope is one of the 3 theological virtues: hope (Spes), faith (Fides) and charity (Caritas, here meaning love). The symbols used to represent them were also used for representing Mercury, Sulfur and Salt! Here is the link with alchemy!

These 3 virtues were all daughters of Sophia (wisdom). So they are 3 but they are one also. And Harry possesses the 3 of them in his heart: faith in DD, in his friends, in what he believes is right; hope that never leaves him and charity, because his heart is full with compassion and love.

Charity, love, is what leads the other ones because everything rests on compassion, goodness and benevolence. It fits very well with DD too, don't you think so? No wonder that HE understands what is behind that door.

Besides, these 3 virtues are bound to the four cardinal virtues: courage, justice, wisdom and temperance, which means 7 virtues in all, 7 again! A curious thing about those 4 cardinal virtues: 2 of them have the same symbols as 2 of Hogwarts houses. There is maybe another symbol here:

Courage (Fortitudo) can be represented by a knight armour, a lion, a sword: Gryffindor comes to mind at once.
Wisdom (Prudentia, it means also caution and skill) is represented by a snake, a mirror, a torch, a coffin. Slytherin!

The 2 other virtues are:
Justice (Justitia), represented by scales, a square, the globe, a book of laws. Somehow, it reminds me of Ravenclaw.
Temperance (Temperantia, meaning moderation) is represented by 2 containers (for mixing water and wine), a camel, an elephant, an hourglass. It would fit with Hufflepuff. ” [Which has IMO been confirmed since the release of the HBP since Hufflepuff’s relic is a cup] (from post #1071, archived alchemy thread).

Charity/Love is omnipresent in the DH, beginning with Charity Burbage and what she represents but also though many other symbols we’ll identify as the re-read goes on. Harry’s wand for example is bound to the charity symbolism: when chased by Voldemort in chapter 4, the wand is described acting “like some great magnet” (p.61, Sch.) – a symbol discussed already on this thread when talking about Love and alchemy, see post #1077 - since “aimant” means both “magnet” and “loving” in French. Later on, when remembering what his wand had done on that day, Harry describes it as spinning “like the needle of a compass” (p.351, Sch). The compass, in alchemy, represents “compassion” (Léon Gineste, l’Alchimie Expliquée par son Langage). There will be a lot more to say about Harry’s wand and the compass symbolism but I think it will be important to keep in mind the link between the Phoenix wand and Charity/Love symbolism. I am sure that we will find many more “Charity”/love/compassion moments as our re-read goes on.

However, the other virtues are well present also and, as they also represent the three alchemical principles, it is from their unity that Harry’s victory can only come.
Faith, trust, is a key element of Harry’s journey in the DH. Gineste says that “faith is forged on truth” (p.337) and truth is what Harry is after all DH book long. He will finally hear the whole truth from Dumbledore at King’s Cross, the cross being the symbol representing Faith.

As for Hope and its related anchor symbol, Harry represents it for the rest of the Wizarding World. This fact is underlined several times in the book but Neville is really the living image of that hope (and faith in Harry). Neville in turn brings hope to Hogwarts, by standing up to the Carrows, even saying: “it helps when people stand up to them, it gives everyone hope. I used to notice that when you did it, Harry.” (p.574 Sch.). I can’t recall an anchor being mentioned in the DH, however the Room of Requirement now looking like “a gigantic ship's cabin” (p.577, Sch.) for Neville and the other hiding students certainly proceeds of the same symbolism.

Love, Faith, Hope – the Three Virtues as the Three alchemical principles – finally (re)united at “King’s Cross” for Harry’s inner conjunction, allowing the one with Voldemort during their duel, and the latter’s defeat. A beautiful image, don’t you think?

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Elanor - Sep 26, 2007 11:25 am (#1943 of 2155)
It struck me recently that we have started the re-read directly by the first chapter but the quotes that precede this first chapter deserve our attention also (And many thanks to Nick for the insights).

The Libation Bearers, by Aeschylus, is the second part of “The Oresteia”, which Wikipedia summarizes as being “a trilogy of tragedies about the end of the curse on the House of Atreus, written by Aeschylus.”. “The Libation Bearers” in itself tells the story of Orestes who is reunited with his sister Electra and of their revenge on their mother Clytemnestra, responsible for the murder of their father, Agamemnon.

The characters of Orestes and Electra have been used by the alchemists (such as Michael Maier) to personify Great Work’s principles, especially Mercury for Orestes. The mere title of the tragedy “The Libation Bearers” is very Mercurial as it involves liquids/drinks being poured. Thus, this is once again the “mercurial way” which is pointed at as the DH begins.
The “cup-bearer” image is also present in another way in alchemical imagery, through the story of Zeus (as an eagle) and Ganymede (who became the gods’ cupbearer), a myth used by the alchemists to symbolize sublimation and distillation – the processes we just evoked about the beginning of the DH.

However, the story of Orestes brings to us several more curious details. Indeed, in alchemy, the alchemist was said to have to search “where the Bones of Orestes are said to be found” (M.Maier, Emblem XXVII), that is in a forge, Orestes’ bones having being found under an anvil (a reference to iron, a metal which symbol we keep finding in the series). The idea of the forge IMO also evokes Godric’s sword and the role of the Goblins. It is curious too that Hepzibah Smith’s cup – another forge reference – is to be found at Gringotts...

In addition, it is worth noticing that, after murdering his mother, Orestes is chased and driven into madness by the Erinyes, who personnify vengeance, one of them being but Alecto... Curious when thinking of Alecto Carrow, isn’t it?
On a side note, Orestes is also supposed to have married mythological Hermione...

The quote from “The Libation Bearers” is particularly important too, especially if we consider it from a Jungian point of view. The lines: “But there is a cure in the house,/ and not outside it, no” are highly meaningful in that perspective. Indeed, for Jung, the house represents the self. Therefore if we apply these lines to Harry then it means that the true “cure” lies in Harry, in the unity of his own self. Here we find again the idea of Harry being the true “bezoar” of the Wizarding World once his journey achieved, an image we often evoked during the HBP re-read. This successful individuation idea is also to be found in the title of the book from which the second quote comes: “More Fruits of Solitude”. Solitude is a reference to being alone, being “one” so to speak, while the “fruits” in alchemy refer to the Stone.

The house the Libation Bearers’ quote refers to is the “House of Atreus”, that is the Atrides, members of Atreus’ family. This is not without reminding us of the Peverells since we learn in the DH that both Harry and Voldemort are descended from the Peverell “house”/family. The “cure” the quote tells us about is thus in the (albeit remote) family for Harry as well, between Harry and Voldemort, through the Peverell's legacy. The “curse” of the Deathly Hallows, echoeing the “curse of the house of Atreus”, is broken when Harry chooses not to keep the Elder wand and to break its power.

The second quote is from William Penn, who founded Pennsylvania, and thus also evokes the idea of a “new settlement”, an idea which is present in Neville’s name (neu(ve)-ville, meaning “new town/settlement”). At the end of the DH, Neville takes part in the reconstruction of Hogwarts as he becomes one of its teachers. On a broader level, one could even say that the whole Wizarding World, and not only Hogwarts, is rising from its ashes after Voldemort’s death, thanks to Harry, for a “new settlement”, a new area to start.

The idea of peace – William Penn was a pacifist – is also well present here. The peace which is that of the achieved journey for the alchemist.
“All was well”, in that sense, is but closing the DH ouroboros started with a pacifist's quote. Peace, at last.


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Suleiman - Sep 27, 2007 8:27 am (#1944 of 2155)
Glad to see the thread active again. I have very little free time at the moment so I am limited in how much I can post but I should be caught up in a week or two. Did want to comment on the Penn quote though.

The significance of the quote stems not from Penn's historical role (as the founder of Pennsylvania) or as a pacifist (though that is related) but to his role as a founder of the Quaker movement- the Society of Friends.

The full quote is from the second part of Penn's Fruits of Solitude, a collection of observations and wisdom which is important for understanding the beliefs of the early Quakers. "Fruits of Solitude" is here a reference to the Quaker manner of worship. Quakers do not have church services in the normal sense of a sermon preached by a minister, but rather gather in a meeting where they meditate or commune with god in the sanctity of the shared gathering. They are not encouraged to speak and are almost prohibited from discussion, but may give voice to their epiphanies if the spirit of God so moves them. So the Quaker way is a personal journey of seeking to understand the wisdom and will of god from scripture and personal examination and prayer (at opposed to seeking the intercession of priests as teachers or confessionaries). Hence Fruits of Solitude are Penn's own beliefs reached through a process of scholarship and personal examination - this should sound very alchemical - alchemy is a metaphor for exactly this process, and the Quakers developed their ideas in concert with the same thinkers who gave us 17th century alchemy.

The specific quote is from a section titled "Union of Friends" the full text is:

"Union of Friends

They that love beyond the World, cannot be separated by it. Death cannot kill, what never dies. Nor can Spirits ever be divided that love and live in the same Divine Principle; the Root and Record of their Friendship. If Absence be not death, neither is theirs. Death is but Crossing the World, as Friends do the Seas; They live in one another still. For they must needs be present, that love and live in that which is Omnipresent. In this Divine Glass, they see Face to Face; and their Converse is Free, as well as Pure. This is the Comfort of Friends, that though they may be said to Die, yet their Friendship and Society are, in the best Sense, ever present, because Immortal."

"Friends" are souls bound by love - the union of Friends is the World Soul - love here being exactly the same as in Elanor's description of charity. Which leads us to Charity Burbage- the penultimate stanza "In this divine glass, they see face to face" brings to mind a passage from 1st Corinthians (to which Jo will allude again later in the book)

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

There is a lot more to say about the virtues, and their relationship to the 3 pillars of the tree of life, but that will do as a start.
Sule

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Elanor - Oct 3, 2007 1:01 am (#1945 of 2155)
Thanks for the quotes and thoughts Suleiman! Good to see you back here!

A few more thoughts about the Three Virtues, especially Faith and its related symbol, the cross.

I posted a few days ago that:
"However, the other virtues are well present also and, as they also represent the three alchemical principles, it is from their unity that Harry’s victory can only come. Faith, trust, is a key element of Harry’s journey in the DH. Gineste says that “faith is forged on truth” (p.337) and truth is what Harry is after all DH book long. He will finally hear the whole truth from Dumbledore at King’s Cross, the cross being the symbol representing Faith." (post #1942)

It struck me lately that there is a moment in the DH which illustrates perfectly the importance of this "virtue". In chapter 18, "The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore", after reading Rita Skeeter's book (and brooding over the loss of his wand), Harry feels that:
"Some inner certainty had crashed down inside him; it was exactly as he had felt after Ron left. He had trusted Dumbledore, believed him the embodiment of goodness and wisdom. All was ashes: How much more could he lose? Ron, Dumbledore, the phoenix wand..." (p.360, Sch.)

"All was ashes"... What a wonderfully symbolic sentence! Especially since Jo mentions the "phoenix wand" just afterwards. IMO, this scene can be seen as a symbolic nadir in the DH. Harry seems to have lost his faith/trust in Ron and Dumbledore, yet, as the phoenix rises from its ashes, the faith in both Ron and Dumbledore will rise from these symbolic ashes as well. And in both cases, the "cross" symbolism will be present.

Ron, first, comes back to Harry as the latter is about to drown after diving for Gryffindor's sword, sword which the first time Harry sees it in the forest is described as "a great silver cross..." (p.367, Sch.). (There will be far more to say about that scene, especially since it happens in the forest of Dean, the place connected to the Rubedo process through Hagrid - as evoked in post #1880 - and alchemical legends in due course. ).

Incidentally, the scene between Harry and Ron is made possible because of Snape's silver doe ("silver-white", "moon-bright") Patronus, a Mercurial symbol, which gives "hope" to Harry again. Harry follows her: in other words, symbolically, he starts moving on the Mercurial path again. From now on, he is on the path to the true "resurrection" that will happen in the end (the silver doe also is a symbol that will deserved to be far more developped in due course).

As for Dumbledore, the true and complete "re-birth" of Harry's faith in him will happen at "King's Cross", a "golden" cross after the "silver cross" of the sword? Well possible as the king is in alchemy connected to gold.

This reborn faith in his friends/mentors will allow Harry to fulfill his mission and in the end will result in the phoenix wand being "reborn" in turn, in a wonderful image for the achieved Journey.

In a way, the "all was well" that ends the book is the echo of this "all was ashes" nadir feeling, an echo that tells of peace and of the achieved Rubedo as well.
Audrey

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Elanor - Oct 5, 2007 11:51 am (#1946 of 2155)
I have just posted this on JKR's website thread and thought I would post it here as well:

"Harry being the new Wizard of the Month doesn't surprise me at all. Actually, from a symbolic point of view, it is perfect.

Indeed, after the 4 founders representing the 4 elements and Dumbledore, connected to Quintessence (the "5th" element) all series long, we have a new (symbolic) Quintessence figure: Harry. Remember "Quintessence: A Quest" Harry was reading in the HBP? At the end of the journey, as the "quest" is achieved, Harry has in turn become the living embodiment of this principle.

More, the text tells us that Harry became an Auror after Voldemort's downfall. "Auror(e)" means dawn in French and, in alchemy, it is a symbol for the achieved great Work/journey. You can find more details about the Auror symbolism in this post #1246 of the alchemy thread but, in short: ""The day that rises symbolizes the beginning of the King/Sun's reign, that is to say the achievement of the Great Work " (a symbolism magnificently displayed by Jo in "The Wandmaker" chapter incidentally). Harry's WotM "card" also says that this happened "under Kingsley Shaklebolt": the mention of Kingsley also adds a "royal"/Sun's reign tinge to the post-Voldemort days.

The text also says that Harry was 27 when he became head of the "Auror" department in... 2007, that is the year of the DH/ "red/achieved great Work book". If we use a bit of Hermione's favorite "arithmancy", both 27 and 2007, when their numbers are added, give 9 - a symbol for perfection. Thus we find the idea of the successfully accomplished journey again here. (All this IMO, of course.)"

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Elanor - Oct 21, 2007 10:07 am (#1947 of 2155)
Well, it's been some time now since my last post on this thread.

I've started to work on posts about chapter 2, "In Memoriam", and I was wondering if anybody still had some comments to post about chapter 1 or if we are ready to start discussing chapter 2. What do you think?

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Nicholas Schouten - Oct 21, 2007 7:29 pm (#1948 of 2155)
Thanks for the clarion call Elanor! So many good posts on Chapter 1, just a few tidbits from me two of which are about the Quotations at the beginning of DH:

1. The quotations preceding the beginning of Chapter 1 are, when seen as a couplet, a prime example of conjunction! I quote Katherine Bartol Perrault in Chapter 5 of her Astronomy, Alchemy, and Archetypes: An Integrated View of Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream : “Jung contends that archetypes, which rise from the collective unconscious, are universal, whether viewed as ancient or modern. The psychological ideas or forces that we take for granted today were just as potent in Shakespeare's time: there simply was not as yet any scientific understanding or terminology for them. Jung asserts that the work of the alchemists embodied their own psychic projections of unconscious material upon their chemical experiments, which resulted in a highly complex, mystical process or opus—that was psychological and spiritual in nature, but defined only through natural, chemical language (Psychology and Alchemy 245). That the process of the coniunctio (Conjuction) was not merely an elemental chemical operation but was connected to the soul, was seen in the alchemists' appropriation of Gnostic and Neo-Platonic symbols and language in describing it (357). The symbolism of the coniunctio is in essence a transcendent, ideal view of the world. In Midsummer, it marries the natural with the spiritual (as well as pagan [i.e. Dionysian rites] and Christian [i.e., marriage rites]), integrating the physical microcosm and macrocosm, as well as the inner and outer psyche in a tenuous, synergistic balance of opposites.” (Bold emphasis added.)

Here we see the pagan and the Christian quotes as JKR noted in one of her recent interviews, and I would assert that one of the prime purposes of the juxtaposition given (in addition to those given in earlier posts) would be as a prime example of Conjunction (of opposites) a la Shakespeare, a true Union of Friends!

2. With regard to the quote from Aeschylus, “the torment bred in the race,” as I understand it, could be a reference to the accursed long family line from which Orestes arose, in which case, it matches with the Slytherin line and the curse no man can bear would parallel poor Harry’s “being brought into the line”. But since Harry has been brought into the Slytherin line, so to speak (temporarily), the “cure” is “in the house and not outside it…not from others but from them” (Harry and LV!).

A few more bits to add and then I’ll be ready to move on to Chapter 2. Sorry for being so pokey.
-Nick

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Hollywand - Oct 30, 2007 5:45 pm (#1949 of 2155)
Dear Union of Friends: With the Veil growing thinner by the moment, it seems an appropriate time to check in and commend the Union on some wonderful alchemical analysis. I raise my glass of butterbeer to you! Love Hollywand.

I also have a proposal that occurs to me after digesting the series. I believe Dumbledore is an archetypal father figure, both in the series and in the creative life of mind. It seems to me that, Jo does to Dumbledore at the close of book seven, what Harry does to Dumbledore at the close of book five. The phoenix, reduced to ashes. Harry seems to me an incedental character, and Dumbledore the Elder Center of the Circle. Scar shaped like the Underground. Oh, so many metaphors, I dare not tread into here. Cheers.


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Elanor - Oct 31, 2007 12:28 am (#1950 of 2155)
Hollywand!!!! **waves like mad** So good to see you back here!

Hollywand: "Oh, so many metaphors, I dare not tread into here."
Please, dare!

You saying that Dumbledore is the "Elder Center of the Circle" reminds me of the scene in the DH, just after Ron left and Harry and Hermione Dissaparated together: "Harry strode off through the heather, walking in a large circle with the distraught Hermione at its center, casting the spells she usually performed to ensure their protection." (p.312, Sch.)

Both Hermione and Dumbledore are connected to the Mercury principle and in both cases, literally in this DH scene, and metaphorically about DD, they form the alchemical symbol which is that of the sun, gold: the circle with a point in its center, unity, perfection, "pure centralized Sol" as says G.Ogilvy (The Alchemist's Kitchen) which is the aim of the Great Work, a very powerful image.

Both Dumbledore and Hermione, in their own way, allow Harry's journey to be fulfilled, his inner unity - individuation would say Jung - to happen. And true Sol will be born again and be radiant as the Sun will rise on Harry's last duel with Voldemort: "The bang was like a cannon blast, and the golden flames that erupted between them, at the dead center of the circle they had been treading, makeed the point where the spells collided." (p.743, Sch.) The very same image again.

I haven't had the opportunity to say so before but: great post Nick! I love the conjunction of opposites a là Shakespeare.

I will wait till you have finished posting about chapter 1 to start posting about chapter 2.

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Hollywand - Oct 31, 2007 8:28 pm (#1951 of 2155)
Hi Elanor! My goodness, your writing is elegant and poetic! Bravo. Wonderful supporting metaphors to draw from the text. Yes, very Jungian: Dumbledore the Superego, Hermione the animus.

Dumbledore's character is loaded with the larger than life power, yet destroyed at the end of book seven in a sort of crisis of faith: we learn how limited and flawed the mentor figure is in reality. Dumbledore asks Harry's forgiveness; Dumbledore admits to using Harry as a pawn, to being tempted by immortality and power. His struggle echoes Voldemort, but is much less purely evil since it is tempered by many types of love that emerge as a subtext in the book.

What I meant by my initial statement regarding Jo and Dumbledore is that she builds the character to very lofty status in book one through five, then destroys him in the closing books.

As a reader, I felt I had been mislead by Rowling by being encouraged to trust Dumbledore completely at every turn, then, taking her word for it, trusting the character. To take that trust and undermine it so completely in the closing books is to leave the reader (at least in my case) with a feeling of nausea and nihilism, a struggle that is one subtext of the human condition, but to my mind, only if one thinks of one's own death as the Greatest Tragedy Ever Told, which I find rather narcissistic and limited.

I understood the subtext, and it made me annoyed. However, it also made me realize the Slytherin undercurrents of such an ending. It seemed rife with resentment, in the French sense of the term. I hope this makes some scrap of sense.

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TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 1, 2007 2:40 am (#1952 of 2155)
I totally agree Hollywand! Given the lawsuit news this morning, I am even more disinchanted and feeling disfranchised with our author.

Now to get back on topic, what alchemy symbol would represent these feelings?

...toddles off to jump on a motorcycle and head for the store at 5:45 am as I am a tad upset and out of cigarettes...

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zelmia - Nov 1, 2007 12:54 pm (#1953 of 2155)
Black bile?

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Madam Pince - Nov 1, 2007 2:44 pm (#1954 of 2155)
Is that what remains of a cow left overnight in a glass of Coke?

(See, I do read this thread, even though I don't understand it and therefore don't post!)

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legolas returns - Nov 1, 2007 2:45 pm (#1955 of 2155)
Nice!

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Madam Pince - Nov 1, 2007 3:00 pm (#1956 of 2155)
to legolas...

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Suleiman - Nov 1, 2007 3:44 pm (#1957 of 2155)
Hollywand, yes to all the above, though I think perhaps we have a Freudian image here, Hermione as Ego, Dumbledore as Superego -

As to the rest of your post - Dumbledore is God.

The logic of Nihilism is that the pain and suffering we experience in this world is incompatible with a deity at once omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent. Therefore there is no god, or he ain't a nice guy.

How can God love/hate his children so much that he allows them to persist as genocidal maniacs (Hitler/Grindlewald) or others to suffer at their hand? When the subject of religion comes up Rowling nearly always mentions that she has sometimes struggled with her own faith. DD is her vehicle for asking those questions. What does it mean to be ethical when one is omnipotent? The ethical debate between consequentialism and deontology (judging acts by their outcomes or by the inherent morality of the action) hinges on limitations on our predictive ability and power. God doesn't play by those rules.

This may seem a bit astray from the subject of Alchemy, but is actually pretty central. Alchemy is all about reclaiming one's divinity while still on earth. The completed seeker knows the intent of God/is omniscient, and has the divine power to manipulate physical reality. But of course the easy way to reach that is to break the mortal coil that binds the Soul to matter and blinds it to its divine nature in the first place. Everyone is saved when they are dead. It is the Bodhisattva's role to defend the path to enlightenment with its manifold twists and turns. To straighten the path is to destroy it, so he must play the role that fate has given him, but may not do more. If DD bears the burden of manipulating others in ways that seem heartless, it is a small thing compared to the burden of not acting to set the world to rights all at once, which he knows is in his power and also is precisely what he must not do.

Dumbledore doesn't want power. He wants absolution. He has effectively infinite power, and so personally takes responsibility for everything, even the evil that happens because he feels constrained not to exercise his power. He surely doesn't want immortality. He knows that death will lift his burden and his guilt, and hopes/knows that it will bring the reunion with those he has failed and with it the absolution he craves. However like Snape he defers that surcease because he feels an obligation he must fulfill. He even feels guilt that in seeking Death (foolishly putting on the ring and eventually dying as a result) he has shirked his responsibility to Harry and those who must eventually defeat Voldemort, however he finds an acceptable resolution on the tower.
Sule

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Hollywand - Nov 1, 2007 5:29 pm (#1958 of 2155)
Ok, Sule, since you are naming the elephant in the living room, yes, that is what I am alluding to in Jo's narrative. But I take issue with the fact that the creative force has a human face or intention at all. That's what I mean by narcissism and limitation. That doesn't make the experience of being alive or dying any less magical, in my view. Humans create a myth then are angry at the myth they created. The foolishness lies in our own imagined self-importance, or any of the sort of order we try to impose on nature.

Nature bats last.

Further, my quarrel is with Jo's sense of ethics. She is, after all, writing a parable about ethics. To set up a series with a central nurturing mentor, publicly encouraging her readers in dialog to "trust Hermione, trust Dumbledore" leads all of those who support her and her work down the garden path. To my mind, she was determined to "win" by cheating the readers, or lying to them about the outcome. Coming from a woman who has earned so much adoration and pounds sterling from her creative efforts, I expect some Gryffindor ethics. Further, I think since we patiently waited years between her sequels, she could have done better than the "smiley faced" ironic "all was well" ending of book seven. Please. I felt really annoyed. Winning by cheating is not winning, and left a very Draco Malfoy taste in my mouth. I wouldn't say Harry and the trio had an alchemically spiritual completeness ending to the story at all. Definitely not the same for Dumbledore. I ended up being much more disappointed in Rowling than Albus Dumbledore.

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Elanor - Nov 3, 2007 1:36 am (#1959 of 2155)
Wow, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw many new posts here, it's so great to see the thread more alive again.

As for me, I don't see the way Jo has developped Dumbledore's character as "cheating". IMO, she made him more human by making him less perfect and truth is, I actually like him even more this way. From a strictly alchemical point of view, I think the fact that he is finally only the white wizard is important, he therefore cannot be completely perfect. And as the color white carries a bit of all colors in it, Albus is multifaceted and I think it adds depth and humanity to his character.

A few days ago, I have posted a few thoughts about this on the Dumbledore Thread: here post # 1271. I will soon develop this idea as we'll be moving to chapter 2 (I've got a lot more to say about the symbolic importance of "In Memoriam"!)

On a different subject, I have had a look at some of the drawings from "The Tales of Beedle the Bard" one can find on the internet. I love the fact that Jo has said she's made seven copies of it because "it had to be seven copies, not six" (very alchemical!) and that the one auctioned is the "moonstone edition". Moonstone is an ingredient of the "Draught of Peace" and is therefore at the same time a Mercury symbol (it is the "moon" stone and also the fact that the potion must give a "light silver vapour", OotP, p.210) and a Rubedo one as peace is.

The drawings one can see on the internet are so very alchemical too and as Jo has said to the BBC that "The Tales of Beedle the Bard is really a distillation of the themes found in the Harry Potter books", I'm ready to bet my first cauldron that these tales are as alchemical as Charles Perrault's are (we often mentioned them on this thread like here). I so hope we will be able to read and enjoy analyzing them soon... (Please, Jo!)

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Luna Logic - Nov 3, 2007 8:26 am (#1960 of 2155)
Hollywand: What I meant by my initial statement regarding Jo and Dumbledore is that she builds the character to very lofty status in book one through five, then destroys him in the closing books. I think she does that not only to the Dumbledore character, but also to Lupin character, Tonks character, and, in a lesser way, to Hagrid's character.

But I wish, not for the first time, that we could have a thread to discuss the work of J. Rowling as an author, not speaking about "literary qualities", but about her plot and characters constructions.
So we could express ourselves, and exchange our views, without interfering too much with other topics -as this thread, or the Jo's site thread.
Sight. I do not dare to ask once more...

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Hollywand - Nov 3, 2007 9:08 am (#1961 of 2155)
That's interesting, Luna, I would like to know more about how you feel she diminished the other characters. I thought she did the same with Hermione's character. She became sort of reactionary, stumbling, and clueless. It diminished the pleasure of the series to my mind. I stated earlier when I first finished the series, Rowling seems to lose her creative focus on the series at the end of book five. I find it interesting that she mentions on her site she had a real personal crisis at that point. I feel a real diminishing of focus on her part.

I also find it a bit hypocritical on her part that she publicly criticizes Van Der Ark for hoping to put his work out on the series---gasp--making money off Harry---when Harry is all over Wal Mart. Gimme a break.

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Luna Logic - Nov 3, 2007 9:19 am (#1962 of 2155)
Hollywand, I would like to discuss exactly the same topics.
But not here! (so, where?)

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PeskyPixie - Nov 3, 2007 9:54 am (#1963 of 2155)
You can discuss some of the issues from the preceding posts on the JKR Official Site thread.

ETA: Just trying to be helpful as you were wondering where you could discuss certain matters. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

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Hollywand - Nov 3, 2007 5:17 pm (#1964 of 2155)
The Lex member Vulture started a few threads that were critical, in the literary sense, of some of Rowling's works, but they have dropped from the Lex active threads. I'm not sure if the Lex would have the requisite quorum to entertain a lively group discussion on the problems with characters in the series. In my own personal case, I lost some enthusiasm at the close of book six, and completely lost enthusiasm at the close of book seven.

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zelmia - Nov 7, 2007 11:42 pm (#1965 of 2155)
If you put a cow in a glass of Coke it won't be there in the morning!
I'm wondering if we can skip straight to the Prince's Tale instead of going chapter by chapter. I am very confused about what Harry sees there that inspires him to not only forgive Snape his past transgressions, but also name one of his children after Snape.

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Elanor - Nov 10, 2007 5:35 am (#1966 of 2155)
I will re-read the chapter and post something about it soon Zelmia. I think that the whole re-read will help us understanding the chapter better, because we will be able to analyze its place in the book's - and series' - journey but some first researches about it can be very interesting. It will be interesting also to compare these first thoughts to the ones that will come to us while the major part of the re-read will be done actually. And this could keep us nicely busy waiting for everyone to be ready for chapter 2's analysis.

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Elanor - Nov 11, 2007 8:00 am (#1967 of 2155)
So, here are some first thoughts about chapter 33, The Prince's Tale.

* First, I think it is important to notice that the Prince's tale is the 33rd chapter of the book, a very symbolic number. One of the number 33 references that I find the most appropriate when it comes to Snape is Dante's Divine Comedy. Each of the three parts of the Divine Comedy is made of 33 "cantos". The redemption of man, which is the theme of Dante's work, particularly fits Snape's life and the memories he gives Harry. As Snape's memories unfold, implicitly, is the theme of Snape redeeming himself in Harry's eyes - hence "Albus Severus". In addition, it is an understatement to say that Snape's task has been, in the series, "dantesque", isn't it?

IMO, there is also a curious echo between the word "tale" of the chapter's title, the "Tale of the Three Brothers" and the Divine Comedy in which the poet travels through the three realms of the dead. When Harry later walks to his death he realizes Hogwarts was his home, thinking "He and Voldemort and Snape, the abandoned boys, had all found home here..." (Sch., p.697). In a way, the three of them are like "foster brothers", "frère de lait" ("milk brothers") in French, with Hogwarts as a symbolic "nourishing parent" or, to use alchemical vocabulary, athanor. I can't help but think that there is a parallel here with the three Peverell brothers, Voldemort, the eldest, being interested only in the power of the elder wand, then Snape, living for his lost love, and the youngest and wisest, Harry, true heir of the Invisibility Cloak. I think it is important that Harry now sees the common points there are between Voldemort, Snape and himself. Relating to Snape, Harry can now forgive. Somehow, couldn't Harry giving Snape's name to his son be symbolically like giving Snape a bit of the family he has always lacked as much as Harry has?

* The whole chapter is marked by the Mercury/feminine principle, and by the Cups Tarot suit symbolism - both bound to the Slytherin "water" element. We often said that Harry must reach inner conjunction and be one with his own Mercury side but this can happen only when Harry can be at peace with the head of the Mercury-Slytherin house, the "King of the Cups", i.e. the Potions Master (as he first was introduced in the series) - Snape. Many details are present in the chapter that underline the importance of this principle/process, here are a few of them:
- The title contains a nice photenic cabbala pun: the "prince's tale" can be read "the princess tale" - a feminine reference.

- The Pensieve, a "cup"-like device, reveals for the first time Snape's emotions to Harry. Snape's eyes are not the ones described as "cold and empty and made you think of dark tunnels" (PS/SS, p.102) anymore. Snape's face in the memories can be blushed, or that of "a man who had lived a hundred years of misery" (p.678) and Harry sees Snape "kneeling in Sirius's old bedroom. tears were dripping from the end of his hooked nose as he read the old letter from Lily." (p.689). Snape's revealed emotions are crucial for Harry's emotional maturation. Hence the deep meaning of Snape's last words: "look at me". By truly "looking" at Snape, through his memories, Harry can finally truly see himself, and reach inner conjunction.

The importance of Snape's memories for Harry's journey are underlined by the fact that, when Harry reaches the castle, holding the "crystal (Rubedo symbol) flask of Snape's last thoughts", "it could only be an hour or so from dawn, yet it was pitch-black". Dawn, symbolizing the final stage of Harry's rubification, is close but Harry is still in the darkness. As posted already, the emeralds glinting on the castle's floor, just like the crystal flask, express the connection between Harry's success and the Slytherin/mercurial principle.
In the same way, before entering Snape's memories, Harry, seeing his dead friends, is described "yearning not to feel" - but to feel is what he has to. He has to master the Cups path and the Cups' master will reveal him the way to achieve this.

- Snape's and Harry's fate are closely bound to two Mercury-connected persons: Lily and Dumbledore, around whom all of Snape's memories revolve. That's why "Dumbledore" is the password Harry gives to access Snape's office and it is the "ghost" of Lily who, above all, will give him the courage to walk to Voldemort after seeing the memories: in the last step towards inner conjunction, Snape, Dumbledore and Lily are the embodiement of the Mercury principle. It is of course not by chance then that, in the first memory, it is first said of Lily that she "flown into the air, quite literally flown" while Dumbledore's first appearance is preceded by a "jagged jet of white light" - both details stress the volatile/Mercury connection of Lily and Dumbledore.
(To be continued in the next post.)

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Elanor - Nov 11, 2007 8:05 am (#1968 of 2155)
* The flower symbolism bound to Lily in the first memory is interesting also. She is described holding a flower in her hand, flower which keeps opening and closing its petals. There will be lots to say about this detail but the flower is first a symbol of victory over death, a very powerful symbol which lights the way of both Snape and Harry. In the same way, twice Snape is described "turning red" while talking to Lily. In Snape's love for Lily lies his redemption. This is a powerful connection with Harry, and in Harry's love for Lily also lies Snape's redemption - hence "Albus Severus"

* If Lily is bound to the flower symbolism, Snape is bound to the sap one. Indeed, in the memories, Lily calls Snape "Sev", which phonetically is similar to "sève", sap in French. The "growing" image bound to "sap" is already interesting but it is even more if we look at the sap symbolism in alchemy. There is indeed an alchemical symbol called "moon's sap", or "philosophical milk", which is essential for the maturation of the Stone.

Even more revealing is the connection between the doe symbolism and the sap one, as said in post # 1880: "Pernety says that the doe contains the operations of the great work and that this name means metallic sap, that is, the volatile part of mercury, [...] [which is joined to sulphur and the product precipitated] to the bottom of the vase, [where] it coagulates with itself, whence the golden horns are born, that is to say the philosopher’s stone." In other words, the doe represents mercury about to be fixed – once fixed, the “golden horns” appear, i.e. the Stone is created. "

* When memories change, at least 6 times it is said that the scene "dissolved", a term which evokes "solve et coagula", the main alchemical operation as the Great Work "consists of a repeated series of dissolutions and coagulations [...]. With each cycle of solve et coagula the matter in the alembic becomes purer and more potent. " (L.Abraham, Dict. of Alchemical Imagery, p.187). The symbolic "matter" is both Snape, that we see "growing" from memory to memory, and Harry watching the memories.

* Finally, there are 20 memories shown in the chapter. A striking parallel can IMO be drawn between these 20 memories and the 20 first cards of the Major Arcana. I won't develop the symbolism here but there is no doubt that reading the first memory in the light of "The Magician" card symbolism, the scene between Lily and Snape in Hogwarts' courtyard in that of "The Lovers", the one in which Snape is saying he will protect Harry in that of "The Wheel of Fortune" or the one of the cursed ring in that of "The Death" card, to name just a few, is particularly meaningful. The last memory Harry witnesses can therefore be linked to the card number 20, The Judgement. Harry's judgement on what he has seen.

As Jungian I.Gad writes about The Judgement: "To see where one has been hurt and to recognize how, because one has been wounded one has inflicted pain on others, and finally to see that this endless chain of being hurt and hurting can be stopped through awareness of and willingness to accept and integrate both sides, this is forgiveness and redemption. This is the Last Judgement." (Tarot and Individuation, p.277). A beautiful image to link to Snape's fate and Harry's vision of it, don't you think?
Therefore, Harry naming his son "Albus Severus" is a living image of the completion and unity of "The World" card (and of The Fool, didn't Dumbledore say of himself in one of the memories "I was a Fool"?).

There are many more details that would be worth mentioning about this chapter but I think these are the main ones (IMO of course).

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PeskyPixie - Nov 11, 2007 8:29 am (#1969 of 2155)
I love the comparison you draw between the Peverell brothers (& the 'Tale of the Three Brothers') and LV, Snape and Harry. Very nice. I'll read the rest when I get another moment.

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Orion - Nov 11, 2007 9:46 am (#1970 of 2155)
Therefore, Harry naming his son "Albus Severus" is a living image of the completion and unity of "The World" card (and of The Fool, didn't Dumbledore say of himself in one of the memories "I was a Fool"?).

Re: Dumbledore - "der tumbe Tor" ("the stupid fool"), that is Parzival/Percival. I knew it!

Great analogy with the three brothers, Elanor.

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Elanor - Nov 13, 2007 12:36 pm (#1971 of 2155)
Thanks! And wonderful detail to add Orion! That's a great bit of phonetic cabbala on Dumbledore's name and so very appropriate symbolically. BTW, there is another one that I really like about his name: in OotP, when Neville, during the MoM battle, calls him "Dubbledore". Dubbledore is phonetically close to "double door", which evokes the Janus symbolism we've discussed so often on this thread (as here - can't believe it was in 2004!).

About "The Prince's Tale", I've noticed another detail, concerning the "solve et coagula" (dissolution and coagulation) symbolism. Usually, in the chapter, each time the scene is said to "dissolve", it is then said to "re-form" afterwards, which is already a nice "coagulation" image. However, there is one scene that is different. After the "corridor scene", during which Snape tries to apologize to Lily, text says:

"The corridor dissolved, and the scene took a little longer to reform: Harry seemed to fly through shifting shapes and colors until his surroundings solidified again and he stood on a hilltop, forlorn and cold in the darkness, the wind whistling through the branches of a few leafless trees." (p.676, Sch.)

In this scene, the volatile element (and dissolution process, which is but the "body" of the matter "made "spirit") is underlined (he "seemed to fly") as is the following coagulation one ("solidified" - the volatile is fixed again). I think the emphasis of the alchemical "solve et coagula" process in this scene is a way of stressing how crucial this moment is in Snape's life, a turning point on his own journey. From that moment, and Snape's "Anything" answer to Dumbledore's "And what will you give me in return, Severus?", Snape is on the path to his redemption.
I won't give more details about it but I also find it very significant to link this 9th scene to the 9th Tarot card of the Major Arcana, that is the Hermit card, a very powerful symbol as Dumbledore first appears in the series of memories, preceded by a flash of white light.

It is not by chance then that the hilltop bears trees: they are leafless for the time being (and the place is dark and cold, very Nigredo-like) but, eventually, the trees will symbolically blossom and bear fruit. Indeed, one of the Rubedo/achieved Great Work symbols is the tree which leaves turn gold and which bears gold and silver fruits. In a way, Harry naming his son Albus Severus is IMO a (silver!) "fruit" of Snape's journey as Harry finally understands and honors the memory of Snape.

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zelmia - Nov 13, 2007 12:48 pm (#1972 of 2155)
Thanks Elanor for your powerful insights. I hadn't noticed the "20" connection (though there are 22 major arcana cards). I'll look into that and get back to you.

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Nathan Zimmermann - Nov 14, 2007 7:37 pm (#1973 of 2155)
Zelmia, it could be argued that the fool and the world cards could be excluded from an analysis in a sense for two differing reasons:

First, the fool card is sometimes held to be independent or isolated from the other cards because, there exists a school of thought that the card should be unnumbered because of the nature of the card. In alchemical sense, the fool could be perceived as prefiguring the beginning of the Nigredo.

Second, it could be argued that the World, the twenty-second and last card could be construed as being a methaphor for completion and total fulfillment. Since, Harry has not completed his quest to defeat Voldemort, it could be said that he has not yet attained the completion of the Rubedo.

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Elanor - Nov 17, 2007 8:39 am (#1974 of 2155)
Looking forward to reading your thoughts about the chapter’s symbolism Zelmia!

Nathan, IMO, the Fool on Snape’s path to redemption is Dumbledore. The Fool/Dumbledore symbolism is present in the whole series but I find it particularly interesting to have Dumbledore say “I... was a fool.” (Sch. p.680) in this chapter. But I do agree about the World being the symbol of the completion of Snape’s own Great Work, which cannot be truly achieved as long as Harry is still threatened by Voldemort. Once Harry’s “Work” is complete, so is Snape’s.

There is another detail in “The Prince’s Tale” chapter that has caught my eye lately. When Snape asks Dumbledore if the latter intends to let Draco kill him, Dumbledore answers:

“Certainly not. You must kill me.’
There was a long silence, broken only by an odd clicking noise. Fawkes the phoenix was gnawing a bit of cuttlebone.
“Would you like me to do it now?” asked Snape, his voice heavy with irony. “Or would you like a few moments to compose an epitaph?” (p.682)

Don’t you think it is curious, in the middle of such an important moment, to mention Fawkes gnawing cuttlebone? My inner “symbol compass” tells me the wording of this sentence has been carefully chosen by our dear Jo, the more because, in FB, she wrote that “The phoenix is a gentle creature that has never been known to kill and eats only herbs.” (FB, p.32)

IMO, the choice of the cuttlebone (and cuttlefish through it) as Fawkes’ food at that particular moment is interesting. The cuttlefish was once used to provide ink and black ink is a Nigredo symbol in alchemy. However, from it comes also the white cuttlebone, as from Nigredo comes Albedo.

The cuttlefish is also sometimes called “the chameleon of the sea”, a nice symbol to apply both to Snape, the perfect spy, and, to some extend, to Dumbledore, the man who needs no Invisibility Cloak for being invisible (not to mention a possible nod towards the D.I.G.S. theory).

Albedo Dumbledore’s death, at the hand of Snape, will happen in the White Book and I think that Rubedo Fawkes gnawing some white cuttlebone symbolizes this event and its necessity for the Great Work to be completed – both Snape’s and Harry’s Great Works in fact. Just as Sirius Black had to die for the Albedo to start, Albus Dumbledore had to for the Rubification (symbolized by Fawkes) to take place.

Connected to Snape, the cuttlebone symbol also tells us that the “Black”, as Snape always appears to be, hides the “White” and leads to the colors “White” and “Red” (incidentally, let’s not forget that the cuttlefish’s ink was also once used as a dye, which is a symbol bound to the Rubedo).

Edit: A detail I forgot to post: French alchemists sometimes used the word "seiche" (cuttlefish) for "(matière) sèche" (dry (matter)) in phonetic cabbala. Fawkes eating cuttlebone is thus also a union of the volatile and fixed principles image, once again symbolizing that the events discussed by Snape and Dumbledore will eventually allow the final conjunction/achievement of the Journey.

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Elanor - Nov 18, 2007 1:35 am (#1975 of 2155)
A few more details about Fawkes and the cuttlebone/cuttlefish (a fascinating symbol!):

- First, a cuttle is also a knife (the word comes from "coutel", which gave couteau, that is knife in French) which, as any other knife weapon, evokes the sword/axe symbolism in alchemy. It is a symbol we very often evoked on this thread, as in postt #124:

"It symbolizes "the fire of the salt" which is attracted by Sulfur and becomes then a "sword" (or an axe, "hâche" in French, hence the letter H -same pronounciation as "hâche"- as another symbol of the salt/sword). It has nothing to do with chance because the sword (salt) is a knife, called in French "white weapon" (as any other knife weapon). Thanks to this "white weapon", the red of the philosopher's stone appears when it "cuts" the preparation, making it "bleed"."

The knife connection of the cuttle then also stresses the importance of Dumbledore's death at the hand of Snape in the series' journey resolution.

- The idea of death is also present in the dyeing properties of the cuttlefish's ink, with a play on words between dye and die.

- Finally, I may be wrong, but I think Snape's memories is the only place in the DH in which Fawkes appears. The phoenix symbolism is well present elsewhere, especially through Harry's wand, but Fawkes himself is not but for these memories.

In the following memories, Fawkes is mentioned only one more time. After the scene between DD and Snape in the castle grounds and Snape's anger:
"They were back in Dumbledore's office, the window dark, and Fawkes sat silent as Snape sat quite still, as Dumbledore walked around him, talking." (p.685, Sch.)
And Harry understands he has to die.

I think it is highly significant to have Fawkes - the Rubedo/resurrection bird - connected to these two scenes. In the first one, his presence underlines the importance of Dumbledore's death, and of what leads to it. In the second one, it heralds Harry's death and above all Harry's rebirth. The fact that Dumbledore is described walking around Snape also gives to the scene a very powerful and appropriate ouroboros-like tone.

In both scenes also, regarding Snape's journey, Fawkes' presence stresses how Snape's path is the one to redemption.

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PeskyPixie - Nov 18, 2007 7:58 am (#1976 of 2155)
LOL Elanor, and all this time I thought JKR mentions Fawkes for sentimental purposes (you know, as she takes us everywhere we've been on the HP journey one last time in DH).

I'm enjoying your interpretation. Quite fascinating.

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Choices - Nov 18, 2007 9:41 am (#1977 of 2155)
Birds use cuttlebone to sharpen their beaks which become like a knife. They use their beaks to cut into their food.

Very interesting Elanor.

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PeskyPixie - Nov 30, 2007 4:01 pm (#1978 of 2155)
I really like the image of the armed Dumbledore standing tall on the hill with disarmed Snape kneeling at his feet, looking up at him. I'm no expert at Alchemy but it does seem rather symbolic, doesn't it?

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Elanor - Dec 2, 2007 8:34 am (#1979 of 2155)
Pesky, that's a very interesting remark! Snape kneeling at Dumbledore's feet is indeed a wonderful image, and one that has quite often been used in alchemy, especially in the famous work attributed to Nicolas Flamel: "Hieroglyphic Figures". The fifth "figure" represents a man kneeling at the feet of another man who looks like St Paul (he carries a sword). The kneeling man is dressed in black and orange and carries a cartouche saying "Dele mala quœ feci". I have already evoked this figure long ago on this thread, when we were discussing the HBP (about Tom Riddle's orphanage and the meaning of "chicken pox" post #1043) and, funnily enough, had then already connected it to Snape. Here's part of that post:

"About chicken pox now, there is a wonderful article in Pernety's dictionary about the word "mal", a very ambiguous word in French because it can mean either evil, pain, difficulty or disease. Pernety says it is a metaphorical word in alchemy which means putrefaction and dissolution because there is always the idea of a destruction principle behind it. Fever is a "mal", meaning fever is a disease but also evil, because it is a cause or principle of destruction. So here, just when DD enters the orphanage, we find iron (war), the chessboard and fever, a nigredo reference connected to destruction. And we find that even before meeting Tom Riddle! Everything is already said from the beginning.

About "mal", Pernety also refers to one of Flamel's illustrations which shows a man dressed in black and orange saying "Dele mala quœ feci", which Flamel translates by "ôte moi ma noirceur" ("remove blackness from me" ) because, says Pernety, "mal" (disease, evil) means, by allegory, blackness. A man dressed in black... It made me think at once of Snape and his sallow, unhealthy complexion.
"remove blackness from me": is it what he asked the alchemist DD to do when he came to him? Is it what taking part in Voldemort's eventual defeat will bring him? I tend to think it is the case, metaphorically, and that only the end of the greatest blackness, Voldemort, will be able to end Snape's. " (From post #1043, I have just corrected a spelling mistake that was in the original post)

I have searched the "alchemywebsite" and they give this translation of Flamel's comments of this image:

"Mark well this man in the form of Saint Paul, clothed in a robe entirely of a yellowish white. If thou consider him well, he turns his body in such a posture, as shows that he would take the naked Sword, either to cut off the head, or to do some other thing, to that man which is on his knees at his feet, clothed in a robe of orange colour, white and black, which saith in his roule, DE LE MALA QVAE FECI, that is, Blot out all the evil which I have done, as if he should say, TOLLE NIGREDINEM, Take away from me my blackness; A term of Art: for Evil signifieth in the Allegory blackness, as it is often found in Turba Phylosophorum: Seeth it until it come to blackness, which will be thought Evil. But wouldest thou know what is meant by this man, that taketh the Sword? It signifies that thou must cut off the head of the Crow, that is to say, of the man clothed in divers Colours, which is on his knees." (Emphasis added)

It does fit Snape well, doesn't it? "Blot out all the evil which I have done" is exactly what Snape is asking Dumbledore in this scene - Snape who has to die in the end. It also fits Dumbledore well since Dumbledore is, in the series, a kind of "guardian" of Gryffindor's sword.

Other kneeling figures come to my mind also, especially in drawings representing "decapitation" at the Nigredo, which represents but the same symbolism, but I find Flamel's figure particularly meaningful when applied to the scene on the hill.
*****
Choices, thanks for adding this detail! It does enhance the knife/sword symbolism.

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PeskyPixie - Dec 3, 2007 1:31 pm (#1980 of 2155)
Very interesting, Elanor. I'll have to go back and read it again to catch anything I may have missed. Thanks.

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Luna Logic - Dec 5, 2007 11:24 pm (#1981 of 2155)
Great remark Pesky, and great interpretation Elanor, it does make of this Hill scene a major one, and I will now keep in mind that image of the relationship Snape/Dumbledore:

"Dele mala quœ feci" -"ôte moi ma noirceur" -"remove blackness from me"... Beautiful !

Alas we didn't see Snape with a cloth of many colors, he died in black as he lived

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Phoenixfeather - Dec 10, 2007 9:02 am (#1982 of 2155)
Eleanor, I read through the last few 'pages' of this thread, and I absolutely love your take on the Prince's Tale! - The redemption of Snape, and the comparison to the Peverell brothers was genius!

I do have a question on Dumbledore - throughout most of the series, he was considered 'quintesscence'. Now that he is shown to be more human due to his mistakes, (which I like) he is considered more the 'white' stage and the Fool. But, again, he did play a quintescence-like role in the beginning books - would that still apply?

(PS Congratulations, Orion! You were right!)

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Elanor - Dec 12, 2007 8:22 am (#1983 of 2155)
Thank you so much Phoenixfeather! I'm so happy you've liked it.

That's a very interesting question about Dumbledore and, IMO, one that needs a multi-faceted answer.

First, I would say that Dumbledore is above all the "white wizard", i.e. the Albedo mentor for Harry, but he also represents "the Fool", the Mercury principle at some points of the story and quintessence on Harry's journey. His role is first to allow Harry to achieve the symbolic Great Work and therefore become the true personification of the Philosopher's Stone/Quintessence.

What is revealed about Dumbledore's past in the DH is part of Dumbledore's own journey. He would not have become the man he was at the time Harry was born: understanding of human nature, forgiving, knowing the power of love, without what had happened in his youth. This past has led him to become the guide Harry needed, not a perfect one however - but, after all, he is "only" the White wizard, isn't he? And a Janus figure too, as said in post #1971.

Quintessence, the fifth element, "encompass[es] each of the other elements" but is at the same time "beyond them" (Enc. des Symboles, p.569) and so is Dumbledore, till the HBP, as Headmaster of the four houses/Elements and so becomes Harry at the end of the DH when his arrival rises the whole school against Voldemort (even is no Slytherin students are mentioned staying, the role Snape, Slughorn and the Malfoys play in the end is crucial). All series long, and even after his death, Dumbledore is "pulling the strings" of Harry's quest, in the background: at the same time "in" and "above" everything happening, the "essence" underlying all things - quintessential indeed.

Also, it seems to me that Dumbledore is the guide but Quintessence is truly Harry's quest - which was precisely said in the HBP, in which Harry is reading "Quintessence: A Quest". Therefore, it doesn't matter that Dumbledore was not perfect. The series is Harry's journey, in which Dumbledore's own journey is only of secondary importance. What is crucial is Dumbledore showing Harry the (quintessential) way.

Incidentally, there is an interesting parallel to draw I think between the use of the Quintessence symbolism in the HP series and in Rabelais' five books of "Gargantua and Pantagruel" in which Pantagruel is searching for the "Kingdom of the Quintessence". Jo even uses the word "gargantuan monster" to describe one of the giants fighting at the end of the DH (p.648, Sch.) and I can't help but wonder if the mere existence of the giants in the HP series (and above all Hagrid's parentage) is not a nod towards Rabelais' work. After all, Hagrid's "giant" adventure happens in the fifth book of the series, the "quint livre" as would say Rabelais... Hmm...

Anyways, I'm getting sidetracked, lol! My point was merely to underline the fact that Dumbledore is part of the Quintessence symbolism in the series, and a very important one, but he is not the only one connected to that symbol, "only" a crucial thread in the Quintessence "web" of the series.

And finally, and again IMO, I think that Dumbledore being shown as more "human" in the last book does fit the Quintessence symbol as the number 5 symbolizes... Man.

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Phoenixfeather - Dec 17, 2007 7:08 am (#1984 of 2155)
Eleanor, thank you for that wonderful explanation! I was having the same feelings about Dumbledore, but could never have expressed it so eloquently! I think you are absolutely right that Dumbledore had to have those experiences to develop true compassion. Especially in his quest for power and imposing the 'greater good', -I think his sister's death made him realize that what was missing in his great plans was love, and that rose far above reason and intellect. This gave him the ability to have compassion for those who were like him, and, consequently, even Tom Riddle/Voldemort. He could see plainly that they were missing both the concept and the ability to love. It is interesting, too, I think because JKR gave Dumbledore the least understood and probably most hated flaw, the quest for power, to help us to understand more. Thanks again for your explanation.

And I loved the references on the Janus figure, I've never seen in so much detail - I definitely have a much fuller understanding.

I noticed JKR describes Dumbledore's arrival as a 'jagged' white light when he appears before Snape in the Prince's Tale - kind of like white lightning. Harry has the lightning bolt scar...hmmmm...the lightning representing soul? Any thoughts on this?

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Elanor - Dec 27, 2007 12:35 pm (#1985 of 2155)
Thanks Phoenixfeather! I'm sorry I haven't answered your post earlier but, between work and Christmas, time has really been flying lately.

About the "lightning", it reminds me of another alchemical symbol: Jupiter's thunderbolt. According to Pernéty, it represents:

"the Philosophers' fire, which [...] first dissolves the imperfect bodies during the work and, by its fixative properties, then reduces them to powder or ashes which are fixed in order not to fear the most violent fire's attacks" (Dict. Mytho-Hermétique, p.173, translation is mine).

It seems to me that this is what Dumbledore is doing to Snape, here and later: he first puts Snape to the test and then prepares him "not to fear the most violent attacks" from Voldemort. What do you think?

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PeskyPixie - Dec 27, 2007 9:09 pm (#1986 of 2155)
Very interesting, Elanor. Keep it coming.

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Elanor - Dec 29, 2007 5:00 am (#1987 of 2155)
Your wish is my command, Pesky...

Actually, I have recently been working on posts about chapter 2, In Memoriam, and here is the first part of what I have found:

Chapter 2 – In Memoriam
First, and as always, I think that the chapter’s title does deserve all our attention as it carries symbolic images or references that contribute to setting the tone of the whole book.

As Nick had noticed in his post #1938, about chapter 1: “"It is also interesting that just as Charity is killed, the next chapter starts with "In Memoriam."
As I had posted afterwards: “This is a great point! In a way, "In memoriam" is telling us, and all the characters: "remember Charity", that is "remember love". Those who will [“remember love”] will truly "ascend" at the end of the series' journey” (post #1939). In addition, the edition of the Daily Prophet in which Harry finds Doge’s obituary is also the one mentioning that Charity Burbage has resigned, which further links what Charity represents to “In Memoriam”.

As a matter of fact the Love/In Memoriam connection is deeper than one would think at first sight. Indeed, the title may be a reference to one of the most famous poems by Lord Tennyson, the one also entitled: “In Memoriam”. This poem, which original title was “The Way of the Soul” – a very appropriate reference also btw! - contains the famous lines:

“I hold it true, whate’er befall;
I feel it when I sorrow most;
‘Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.”

Verses which resonate particularly after Charity’s death and in the light of the importance of the themes of Love, and loss, in the DH, don’t you think?

Let’s not forget either that “In Memoriam” first refers to Dumbledore and to the first glimpse we have of Dumbledore's past. Keeping Tennyson’s “In Memoriam” verses in mind while thinking about Dumbledore’s past is, IMO, as if, in a very subtle way, Jo was already telling us to search Love and emotions behind what will be told about Dumbledore. Dumbledore has loved and lost and the scars left by this love have made him the wizard he became, a wizard able to allow other people to give the best of themselves . "Scars can come in useful" said Dumbledore in the very first scenes of the series, adding “I have one myself above my left knee which is a perfect map of the London Underground” (PS/SS, p.17). Dumbledore’s scar is well hidden, “underground” so to speak, but by shaping his character it has also proved to be “useful” indeed.

Last week, on “Pottercast”, asked about how Dumbledore’s youthful love was relevant to the books, Jo said this: “ Well, to me it was only relevant in as much as Dumbledore, who was the great defender of love, and who sincerely believed that love was the greatest, most powerful force in the universe, was himself made a fool of by love.” . I find it particularly interesting that Jo uses the word “fool” here, that is, symbolically, “wise”. Dumbledore has loved and lost, and it has made him wise. All of this is already hinted at by the “In Memoriam” reference. It is now to Harry to lift the veil from Dumbledore’s past, and in turn feel the truth of Tennyson’s words.

Incidentally, this is not the first time that searching about HP names/titles leads me to Tennyson. Last May already, I had posted this:

“While searching for a post for the alchemy thread, about the meaning of the runes Hermione mixes up in her OWL exam in OotP, I found out that "eihwaz" means "yew tree" and is said to refer to mythological Yggdrasil. It reminded me that, in one of Agatha Christie's novel, a character keeps drawing a tree "which doesn't look like a tree" that she calls Ygdrasil.

So, I searched my collection of A.Christie novels and the title in which the said Ygdrasil appears is "The Hollow"! More than that, a very interesting scene of that novel sees Hercule Poirot reciting to the "Ygdrasil Lady" (named Henrietta) the beginning of an Alfred Tennyson's poem which gave me goose bumps when I read it:


"I hate the dreadful hollow behind the little wood,
Its lips in the field above are dabbled with blood-red heath,
The red-ribb’d ledges drip with a silent horror of blood,
And Echo there, whatever is ask’d her, answers ‘Death.’"

(From "Maud; A Monodrama" - Alfred Tennyson).

Heath is "An extensive tract of uncultivated open land covered with herbage and low shrubs; a moor." (American Heritage Dictionary) and, according to the Sorting Hat, Godric Gryffindor was "from wild moor" (GoF, p.156, UK paperback).

The poem and the heath/moor connection do make me think of Godric's Hollow! And, to me, the "Echo" part of the poem has a very ouroboros/circle tone when thinking of Harry going back to Godric's Hollow in the DH and carries a very foreshadowing (and worrying) mirror image too -- the echo of death is what is waiting for Harry at Godric's Hollow...” (from post #504 of the Godric’s Hollow thread).

And “the echo of death” is indeed what was waiting for Harry in Godric’s Hollow, from his parents’s grave, to Dumbledore’s family’s one, not to mention the Deathly Hallow symbol on Ignatus Peverell’s grave and Harry and Hermione’s encounter with Bathilda...


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Elanor - Dec 30, 2007 6:38 am (#1988 of 2155)
Chapter 2 - In Memoriam (second part)

* This chapter, the first one featuring Harry, begins with this highly significant sentence: “Harry was bleeding.”. As written already in the very first posts after the DH release, the Rubification process is sometimes “likened to staining with blood” (L.Abraham, p.174). So, “Harry was bleeding” puts Harry in a Rubification perspective from the outset of the book. Furthermore, this is the first time in the whole series that Harry does not start the book in a “dead position” (he wasn’t at the very beginning of CoS either but the symbolism was identical since Harry had to pretend “not to exist”). As the HBP starts, Harry has reached the achieved Albedo stage, he is now “beyond” the (alchemical) death symbolism of Nigredo.

* Dudley’s clumsy gift of a cup of tea evokes the “Cups” of emotions symbolism. The fact that Harry inadvertently breaks the cup shows that Dudley does not know how to express his emotions and Harry doesn’t “get” the message (yet).

* The text precises that Harry has cut the fourth finger of his right hand, which is more telling a detail than one could think at first sight. The fourth finger of a human hand is called the ring finger or digitus medicinalis / medical finger, which evokes several symbols:

--> The ring finger name evokes the ouroboros symbolism so present in the DH, closely bound to the idea of bleeding/Rubification here.

--> In many cultures, the fourth finger, “medical finger”, was supposed to have magic/healing powers. Here, we find again the idea of Harry’s mission being the symbolic “healing” of the Wizarding World (during the HBP re-read we often posted about Harry being the symbolic “bezoar” of the Wizarding World, especially when commenting chapter 18 “Birthday Surprises”, starting here, post #1417)
The idea of healing is present in this passage of chapter 2 as Harry thinks: “He had never learned how to repair wounds, and now he came to think of it – particularly in the light of his immediate plans – this seemed a serious flaw in his magical education.”. The bleeding of the “healing finger” therefore symbolizes the fact that Harry, in the course of the Rubification process, will truly learn how to “repair wounds” – symbolic and emotional wounds.

--> I already mentioned how the Libation Bearers’ quote and the symbolism bound to Orestes was important in the series’ perspective ( post #1943) and the myth finds a curious echo here. Indeed, after he murdered his mother, Orestes is said to have been driven mad by the furies and “he recovered his sanity by biting off one of his fingers”. It is one of the numerous examples found worldwide of finger (or symbolic substitutes) sacrifice which appears at times of crisis (A.Stevens, “Ariadne’s Clue”, p.408). Harry does not “sacrifice” his finger here stricly speaking, yet the symbolism is echoed here and foreshadows Harry’s ultimate sacrifice in the series. (Incidentally, the parallel with Frodo, in The Lord of the Rings, who comes to his senses when Gollum bites his finger off, is interesting here too).

--> Last but not least, in alchemy fingers were connected to planets and the fourth finger was the “solar finger”. That Harry makes the finger connected to the sun bleed is also a wonderful Rubification symbol, the sun being the star connected to the last stage of the Great Work.

Finally, what makes Harry’s finger bleed is a fragment of the mirror Sirius Black, the Nigredo mentor, once gave him. Symbolically then the “Rubification bleeding” is made possible by the Black process which is now over. A wonderful image, don’t you think?
Harry keeps the mirror fragment carefully and it will save him again, leading him to the true awakening happening after Dobby’s death. This is the same image: “Black” allowing the reddening of the Great Work to happen.

The mirror symbolism is also at play in this scene as, when Harry first looks in the fragment of mirror he sees “nothing but his own bright green eye reflected back at him”. The alchemical mirror shows what is hidden and what is hidden (still) is Harry himself. Harry is on his way to be One: once at the end of this path, when he will be fully himself, the Great Work/Rubification process will be over.
At the end of the chapter however, Harry sees a “flash of brightest blue” in the mirror, the color of Dumbledore’s eyes: what is still hidden to Harry is also the real Dumbledore.

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Suleiman - Dec 30, 2007 1:53 pm (#1989 of 2155)
Elanor, brilliant, as usual. I think the connection to Tennyson runs throughout the books and there is lots of material to examine there. Have to add that to my reading pile. Another work that seems completely new now that I have had my hermetic awakening.

Speaking of - I think I have found the origins of DDs scar - TS Eliot.

Eliot was famous for riding the Underground when he wanted to think, and used it as a metaphor for the descent of the Nigredo and for the material world (in a neoPlatonic sense) in East Coker in his alchemical Four Quartets

O dark dark dark. They all go into the dark, The vacant interstellar spaces, the vacant into the vacant, The captains, merchant bankers, eminent men of letters... ... And cold the sense and lost the motive of action. And we all go with them, into the silent funeral, Nobody's funeral, for there is no one to bury. I said to my soul, be still, and let the dark come upon you Which shall be the darkness of God. As, in a theatre, The lights are extinguished, for the scene to be changed With a hollow rumble of wings, with a movement of darkness on darkness, And we know that the hills and the trees, the distant panorama And the bold imposing facade are all being rolled away- Or as, when an underground train, in the tube, stops too long between stations And the conversation rises and slowly fades into silence And you see behind every face the mental emptiness deepen Leaving only the growing terror of nothing to think about; Or when, under ether, the mind is conscious but conscious of nothing- I said to my soul, be still, and wait without hope For hope would be hope for the wrong thing; wait without love, For love would be love of the wrong thing; there is yet faith But the faith and the love and the hope are all in the waiting. Wait without thought, for you are not ready for thought: So the darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing. Whisper of running streams, and winter lightning. The wild thyme unseen and the wild strawberry, The laughter in the garden, echoed ecstasy Not lost, but requiring, pointing to the agony Of death and birth.

You say I am repeating Something I have said before. I shall say it again. Shall I say it again? In order to arrive there, To arrive where you are, to get from where you are not, You must go by a way wherein there is no ecstacy. In order to arrive at what you do not know You must go by a way which is the way of ignorance. In order to possess what you do not possess You must go by the way of dispossession. In order to arrive at what you are not You must go through the way in which you are not. And what you do not know is the only thing you know And what you own is what you do not own And where you are is where you are not.

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Elanor - Jan 1, 2008 1:31 am (#1990 of 2155)
“Let’s start the new year right...” says the song. Starting it posting sounds like a very good way to welcome 2008, doesn’t it?

Thanks for posting about TS Eliot, Suleiman, the connection with Dumbledore’s scar is brilliant!

Some more symbolic details about chapter 2:

* In his trunk, Harry finds some symbols of the past journeys, before starting the last step of the great series’ one:
“old quills”, a volatile reference; “desiccated beetle eyes”, a Rubedo one, “single socks that no longer fit”: a symbol for the past journeys.

* Elphias Doge’s name is also interesting. The first name Elphias may be a nod towards Eliphas Levi, a French occult author from the 19th century. His true name was Alphonse Louis Constant and he chose the name “Eliphas Levi” when trying to translate Alphonse Louis into Hebrew. Alphonse means “ready for battle” in old German, and doge, from the Latin “dux” means “leader”. As Wiki says: “ The title of Doge was used for the elected chief of state in a number of Italian "crowned republics"”, Venice comes to mind. Therefore Elphias Doge’s name carries a leader/“royal” reference and the idea of being ready for the battle. Quite appropriate to find him at the beginning of the “King”/gold book as the last battle is about to start, isnt’ it?

Funnily enough, in the obituary, Elphias mentions suffering from Dragon Pox before coming to Hogwarts. Dragon pox is a disease we have already talked about when it’s been mentioned about Draco Malfoy’s granfather, Abraxas, in the HBP (he died of it) around the post #1499. (Incidentally, Eliphas Levi has written about the abraxas symbol, there may be an interesting symbolic connection here).

* About his “tour of the world” (very ouroboros-like phrase btw), Doge says that he’s escaped chimaeras in Greece and met Egyptian alchemists. Quite a long time ago, I had posted about the chimaera symbolism on this thread, while we were discussing Aberforth’s future role:
“ Another detail that may be interesting: I was wondering about the "goat" clue Jo gave us about Aberforth. She even said (Edimbourgh Book Festival): "Why do you think that it is Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like the goat clue—I sniggered to myself about that one.".

So, I have searched in my Dictionary of Symbolism about the goat and first thing I read was: "in Greek khimaira, chimera; in Latin capra". Now this is really funny because the chimera has interesting meanings in alchemy since it is a triad: "lion's head, goat's body, dragon's tail" (FB) and: "the chimera is a triad, as are a lot of other groups of gods or symbols, and you can find a lot of triads in alchemy which illustrated the division of the world into corpus, anima and spiritus (the body, the soul and the spirit) and into Salt, Sulphur and Mercury." (from post #350 archived thread)

So, if Harry and DD can be seen as Sulfur and Mercury symbolically, what if Aberforth was the third part of the triad? Harry would be the Lion's part, Albus Dumbledore the Dragon's part of the chimera (he is famous for his work on dragon's blood!) and Aberforth would then be the "goat" (/salt) part. BTW, it is very interesting to notice that FB describes the chimera as having a "dragon's tail" since, traditionally, it is more often described as having a serpent's tail but, as we already said, in alchemy serpent and dragon could be used indifferently. And still, Jo chose the "dragon", not the "serpent" for the description she made of the chimera in FB... I would bet first cauldron that it has nothing to do with chance...

Besides, the presence of a chimera in alchemical illustrations is a cabbala hint, meaning "I veil a secret" playing on the fact that a chimera is not only a fantastic beast but also means an illusion... And I bet Aberforth's current role is only a "chimera", an illusion, and that he, in fact, veils a secret...” (post #1214).

The image works perfectly well with what we learn in the DH, except that I was wrong about a third of the triad: the “lion head” is not Harry, it is Grindelwald who is described in the DH as having “golden hair [which] fell in curls to his shoulders” (p.253). When it comes to Dumbledore’s past, Grindelwald, Albus and Aberforth Dumbledore form the symbolic Chimaera from which much of the future will depend. The idea of illusion and secret bound to the Chimaera fits also perfectly the Dumbledore brothers/Grindelwald trio.

I will post more tomorrow.
A very happy new year to all! Bonne année!
Audrey

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Elanor - Jan 1, 2008 11:56 pm (#1991 of 2155)
And here is the rest of my notes about chapter 2:

* Doge says that Ariadna’s death “had led, not to a renewed closeness between Albus and Aberforth, but to an estrangement”. (p.19 Sch.) which is, alchemically, interesting as Pernéty talks about the “strange fire” (or “foreign” fire) of the alchemists that is “ Mercury of the wise after the reunion of the body and spirit.” (p.161) a symbol which underlines Ariadna’s death as a turning point in Dumbledore’s journey.
Doge mentioning soon afterwards Dumbledore discovering the 12 uses of Dragon’s Blood (that is reaching Quintessence) furthers the image of Dumbledore’s own journey.

Doge also says, as the obituary ends, how Dumbledore has “died as he lived: working always for the greater good” (p.20 Sch.), quite an ominous (and telling) sentence in the light of what we will hear in the DH. But this is an obituary, a word which comes from the Latin obire "go to meet” (obituary= “go to meet (death)”) and this article, at the very beginning of the book, is like an invitation for Harry, and us with him, to “go to meet” the real Dumbledore.

And it is through death that Harry will "go to meet" Dumbledore. In a way, the whole DH book is like a 'living obituary': all book long Harry is but on his way to the final sacrifice.

* The transition between the part of the chapter dedicated to the obituary and the part about Rita Skeeter’s book sees Harry wondering why he has never asked Dumbledore about his past and remembering the question he had once asked DD: what the latter was seeing when looking in the Mirror of Erised. This memory allows Jo to put to the forefront the symbol of the mirror again.

What is still hidden here for Harry is Dumbledore’s past and, though he knows Dumbledore had not answered his question honestly on that day, the headmaster’s answer is still enlightening: “a pair of thick, woolen socks”, that is a symbol of the journey (socks) paired with the wool symbolism, that is a reference to the “Golden Fleece”, another symbol for the Stone. Dumbledore sees a pair of socks: two journeys, journeys of “wool”, that is to the achieved Great Work. Quite a truthful answer in fact!

Jo will wrap up the symbol in the King’s Cross chapter. After Dumbledore had told Harry about his sister’s death, Harry thinks: “At last he knew what Dumbledore would have seen had he looked in the Mirror of Erised, and why Dumbledore had been so understanding of the fascination it had exercised over Harry.” (p.719, Sch.). The alchemical mirror shows what is hidden. Harry fully sees at “King’s Cross”, once the “King” has reached inner conjunction. A wonderful image, isn’t it?

* Rita Skeeter’s book and the article about it both focus on the idea of “truth” as the book’s title is “The Life and Lies of Albus Bumbledore” when the article is called: “Dumbledore – The Truth at Last?”. After reading the article, Harry will also yell “Lies!”.
We have already said on this thread how the theme of truth was important in the DH, bound to the Faith virtue symbolism (post #1945 for example). Therefore, after “Charity”, “Faith” is also present again in chapter 2.

* When Harry sees Rita’s picture, he finds it to be a “nauseating image” while after reading the article he feels “revulsion and fury rose in him like vomit”. Even the walls of the room as described of being “a sickly peach color” just afterwards. According to Pernety’s alchemical dictionary, vomit refers to “The Matter of the Philosophers to the black, because it is in a state of putrefaction, that the putrefaction develops and separates the good from the bad, that it shows what was hidden” (p.534). The idea of “separating the good from the bad” informations about Dumbledore and reveal “what was hidden” about him is really drummed out in this second chapter, through many symbols.

Incidentally the fact the walls are peach colored also adds a positive side to Harry’s search for truth as the peach symbolizes “spring, regeneration, and immortality” (A.Stevens, “Ariadne’s Clue”, p.388)

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Elanor - Jan 2, 2008 12:03 am (#1992 of 2155)
(continuation of the last post)

* Some interesting parts in what Rita says (p.23 Sch. and following):
- “I’ve had access to a source most journalists would swap their wands for”.
Rita’s source is Bathilda Bagshot and it is at hers that Harry will have his wand broken, leading him to eventually swap it for Draco’s.

- “I can promise that anybody who still thinks Dumbledore was white as his beard is in for a rude awakening”
“Awakening” is bound to the idea of dawn, of reaching the last stages of the Great Work. Learning more about Dumbledore will indeed be part of Harry’s true “awakening”. That’s the role of White mentor – white as his beard all right, whatever Rita may think.

- She says that “those who go dewy-eyed over Dumbledore’s spectacular victory” over Grindelwald “must brace themselves for a bombshell – or perhaps a Dungbomb.”.
Here as well, Rita evokes a symbol far more positive that her tone suggests: “dew”. In alchemy, dew is “the beneficial, healing aspect of the mercurial water [...] Through the celestial influence of the descending dew or rain during distillation, inert matter (the ‘body’ or ‘earth’) is cleansed and reanimated”. (L.Abraham, p.53)

Tears symbolize the very same operation. I cannot help but think of Dumbledore’s tears, shed at King’s Cross, while talking about Grindelwald, just before Harry’s body is “reanimated”, just before the true “victory”.

Incidentally, after the Mirror of Erised symbol, this is yet another echo between chapter 2 and 25, as if the second chapter and the “King’s Cross” one were mirroring themselves. “King’s Cross” is the next to last chapter, “In Memoriam” is the second one, so if we consider the very structure of the book these two chapters seem to ‘answer’ each other. Maybe something to keep in mind when we will reach ‘King’s Cross’ chapter.

Another nice image is the fact that Harry will finally find the "Truth" he seeks at 'King's Cross': the cross is the symbol representing the Faith(/truth) virtue.

- “Aberforth is just the tip of the dung heap”.
Here we find the dung symbolism, which was already present in the previous quote (the “dungbomb”), which represents what is used to produce a gentle heat for the cooking of the stone. A telling, even if not ‘nice’ image, representing the fact that the truth about the whole Dumbledore family will be part of the symbolic “cooking of the Stone” all book long.


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PeskyPixie - Jan 3, 2008 9:21 pm (#1993 of 2155)
Oh, Elanor, Greatest Alchemist the forum has ever seen, I have a question for Thee.

We all know that Trelawney is 'an old fraud', but she insists on conducting tarot reading for Dumbledore during the school year of HBP and always ends up picking the lightening-struck tower which does have great significance to Dumbledore's death. Is this merely coincidence, or is there anything deeper to it?

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Elanor - Jan 4, 2008 1:25 pm (#1994 of 2155)
LOL Pesky! Padawan Alchemist is more accurate (I'm not fond of the hairdo but I'd love to try a lightsaber) but thanks!

There is definitely something deeper about Trelawney and the Lightning-Struck Tower card. We have talked about it on this thread when we were doing the HBP alchemical re-read. I've searched a bit the thread and it starts around post #1802 about HBP chapter 25 but is really detailed in the post #1804 and the following ones. The symbol is explained again when we reached chapter 27, "The lightning-Struck Tower". The posts about chapter 27 start here post #1826).

I hope you'll find these posts useful.

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PeskyPixie - Jan 4, 2008 4:44 pm (#1995 of 2155)
Thanks ever so much, Elanor. I'm going to enjoy reading through those posts!

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Elanor - Feb 3, 2008 8:50 am (#1996 of 2155)
This thread has been so quiet lately... I hope that my (too) long posts about chapter 2 have not discouraged the forumers who usually post on this thread. I'm really looking forward to reading everybody's thoughts about chapter 2 (whenever you have the time to post them).

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PeskyPixie - Feb 4, 2008 8:44 am (#1997 of 2155)
Oh my, talk about a telepathic connection. I was just thinking last night that this thread has become silent for the last little while and here you are!!!!! Thoughts shall be posted soon.

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Elanor - Feb 10, 2008 2:12 am (#1998 of 2155)
Looking forward to reading your thoughts Pesky!

Still thinking about the "mirror", or echo, idea between the books and/or parts of a book like in chapter 2, I have noticed a detail that I think is quite revealing while listening to GoF in my car last week. During the 'rebirthing party', Voldemort tells the Death Eaters:

"You know my goal - to conquer death." (GoF, p.566, UK paperback)

And as I was listening to it, another quote came back to me:

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (Inscription on the Potters' grave, DH, p.328 Sch.)

Don't you think there is a stricking echo between the two quotes? One goal, two roads. Voldemort fails because for him to 'conquer death' means to try to become immortal while the Potters' grave tells us that the only way of conquering death is to accept it - like Harry will do in the end, like the third brother did at the end of the "Tale of the Three Brothers". Hence why 'death', through the Hallows, will never serve Voldemort but it serves Harry who does not fight it but accepts it.

Just a thought I thought I'd post as long as I remember it.

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Nicholas Schouten - Feb 10, 2008 6:06 pm (#1999 of 2155)
Great Posts everyone! Sorry it has been a while...

Two reflections on Harry’s Mirror (part 1):

1. In Memoriam, chapter 2 of DH, begins with Harry being cut by a remaining shard of the mirror given to him by Sirius Black. This chapter also ends with Harry cutting himself again on the mirror as he reads portions of the truth in Rita Skeeter’s article, but refuses to see that which has been hidden. As Elanor noted in Post 1991 (Jan. 1, 2008), and at Post 1998, (Dec. 30, 2007), the alchemical mirror reveals that which is hidden. See also: Elanor and Sulieman comments on the role of mirrors, in Post 1918 (Aug. 16, 2007) and Post 1920 (of same date) and a few of the postings following; See further, Hollywand’s older list of mirror references in PS/SS at Alchemy Thread 1, Post 834, Hollywand, Dec. 12, 2004 and a mercurial reference to the mirror in Alchemy Thread 1, Post 562, Hollywand, Oct. 13, 2004. It is great that the mirror that reveals hidden truth is at first placed on a “slanted truth” (the Daily Prophet edition carrying the article on Rita Skeeter’s new book on DD) and dances away from Harry as he condemns as completely false what he has read.

The mirror was supposed to be a link between Harry and Sirius, it was a two-way mirror. But Harry never used it that way; in the end, Harry shattered the mirror gift from Sirius. “Mirrors derive their symbolic importance from the ancient belief that persons or objects were magically linked to their reflections. Thus a mirror could hold on to a person’s soul or life force…In antiquity mirrors were generally made of silver or polished bronze…In European iconography the significance of mirrors is ambiguous. On the one hand, they appear in the hands of the deadly sirens of antiquity, or of Luxuria, the personification of lust and vanity; on the other hand, they are also attributes of the virtues of self-knowledge, Veritas and Prudentia….” (Dict. of Symbolism, under “Mirrors”, at pp 222-223, Hans Biederman; bold emphasis added.) I don’t recall if we are told what the backing of this mirror was (anyone recall off-hand?), but if it were silver (and it might have been easier for Sirius to write his message on the back if it had been “silver”) then Harry’s reintroduction to the mirror after the White Stage of Albedo has been achieved at the end of the HPB is a sure sign of Harry’s progress. Further confirmation of this seems to lie in the fact that Harry at first believes he has seen the White Stage mentor’s eyes (i.e., DD’s eyes) staring out of the mirror.
-Nick

(waiving to all)

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Nicholas Schouten - Feb 10, 2008 6:13 pm (#2000 of 2155)
(part 2)

2. Also, the mirror brings into focus the water element and feminine aspects. “It has been said it is a symbol of the imagination-of consciousness-in its capacity to reflect the formal reality of the visible world. It has also been related to thought, instrument of self-contemplation as well as the reflection of the universe. This links mirror-symbolism with water as a reflector… (The mirror) is a surface which reproduces images and in a way contains and absorbs them. In legend and folklore, it is frequently invested with a magic quality…In this way it serves to invoke apparitions by conjuring up again the images which it has received at some time in the past, or by annihilating distances when it reflects what was once an object facing it and now is far removed. This fluctuation between the ‘absent’ mirror and the ‘peopled’ mirror lends it a kind of phasing, feminine in implication, and hence—like the fan—it is related to moon-symbolism. Further evidence that the mirror is lunar is afforded by its reflecting and passive characteristics, for it receives images as the moon receives the light of the sun. Again, its close relationship to the moon is demonstrated by the fact that among the primitives it was seen as a symbol of the multiplicity of the soul: of its mobility and its ability to adapt itself to those objects which ‘visit’ it and retain its ‘interest’. At times, it takes the mythic form of a door through which the soul may free itself ‘passing’ to the other side: this is the idea reproduced by Lewis Carroll in Alice Through the Looking Glass…(this does not exhaust the symbolism)… like the echo,it stands for twins (thesis and antithesis), and specifically for the sea of flames (or life as an infirmity)…hand mirrors, in particular are emblems of truth…” (A Dict. of Symbols, under “Mirror”, at pp 201-202, J.E. Cirlot; bold emphasis added.)

It is in this final manifestation of symbolism that we will eventually see the full mirror (formerly Sirius' portion of the 2way device) allow for Harry and the other world – Hogwarts, the world from which he had been ‘exiled’ – to reach out to each other (“The Missing Mirror”, chapter 28, DH). By passing back into that world, his “soul” will indeed find the ability to free itself. Further, as a side note, I don't know that Harry would have received the "truth" from Sirius (any "truth" that is [as I don't think that Sirius ever knew the truth about DD], witness Sirius' inability to be objective with regard to school age Severus; Sirius' views are typically too one-sided), but it does appear that Alberforth, who ends up with Sirius' mirror, was capable of telling the truth to Harry (and Harry was then ready to "hear" the truth).
-Nick

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Nicholas Schouten - Feb 11, 2008 10:04 am (#2001 of 2155)
Here's a quote from the alchemist Fulcanelli on the mirror concept:

“The mirror symbolizes the beginning of the Work, the Tree of Life marks its end, and the horn of plenty the result. … Alchemically, the first matter, the one [matter] which the artist [adept, i.e. the alchemist] must choose in order to begin the work, is called the Mirror of the Art.” (Le Mystere des Cathedrales, Fulcanelli, transl. by Mary Sworder at p. 96)

Fulcanelli goes on to indicate that many alchemists, including Basil Valentine, saw the first matter, materia prima, as a mirror since within it the whole of nature can (eventually) be seen reflected back. In a very strong sense this is like seeing the world in a grain of sand.
-Nick

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zelmia - Feb 11, 2008 12:15 pm (#2002 of 2155)
Harry is obsessed with the Mirror of Erised in Book 1, the beginning of his journey. He is strongly advised by Dumbledore to occupy his time with other pursuits.

But here, the mirror is:
• completely forgotten by Harry, as he had previously resolved not to use it
• broken
• and both literally and figuratively a source of pain for Harry

Ultimately, it is through the Mirror of Erised that Harry is able to foil Voldemort's plan to obtain the Stone. And ultimately it is this same sort of "self-reflection" that allows Harry to defeat Voldemort utterly.

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Elanor - Feb 11, 2008 1:01 pm (#2003 of 2155)
Good to see you back and posting Nick and Zelmia! **waves**

The mirror symbolism is so important in this chapter, and the entire book and series, that it is a very good idea to summarize what it means. I have often posted that the alchemical mirror shows what is hidden but I don't think I have ever posted the whole quote explaining this symbolism (or it was years ago on the old thread). It comes from "L'Encyclopédie des Symboles" (Collectif) and the mirror entry stresses how the symbol can be connected to Hermes himself who is supposed to have said that the mirror is used to “make up the invisible from the visible, in order to reveal what is secret and hidden”. (p.415)

Nick: "don’t recall if we are told what the backing of this mirror was (anyone recall off-hand?)"

Not off-hand but it was easy to check. In OotP, when Harry finally unwraps Sirius's package: "Out fell a small, square mirror. It looked old; it was certainly dirty." (OotP, p.755, UK paperback). The color of the back of the mirror is not given (and I don't recall any other mention of it). However, we know it is a square mirror and this is a very interesting detail. In alchemy, the square represents the Four Elements. It is then closely connected to the circle symbolism - the circle that is present in the scene through the eyes Harry sees in the mirror: his own and what he thinks is Dumbledore's (and is Dumbledore's actually, just not Albus's).

This is the "square and circle" symbol: "The transformation of the square into a circle symbolizes the transformation of the four elements into the alchemical quintessence or fifth element.". The "circle (or sphere) represents the unending perfection of divine love" and the "square symbolizes the four elements (earth, air, fire and water) which are to be converted into the perfection of the circular quintessence, or the philosopher's stone" (L.Abraham, pp.189-190)

Harry's quest is quintessence (remember "Quintessence: A Quest" in the HBP?), is to be the Living Stone at the end of the journey and the "union" of the elements (which is best represented by the fight of all the houses against Voldemort) is the way for him to proceed. He has already planted the right seeds: the mirror is not square anymore.
It is himself however that he sees in the mirror, this true self he still needs to awaken that will reveal himself as the true quintessence. It is still hidden (that's why the square was a mirror) and Harry is only but the materia prima of the Stone still at this point. But Harry marches on.

Doubts about Dumbledore are always present in Harry's mind in the DH, until he finally meets Aberforth. Aberforth whose name is also connected to quintessence...

In the post #1208 (back in 2006, times flies!), I had posted this:
"You [Hollywand, in her post #1207] said: "Aber (Rise/Over) + forth Dumbledore (Bumblebee) is this a reference in the given name to the Quintessence?"

This is brilliant!!! According to the Lexicon (precisely to the link provided in the article about Aberforth), it is said that "Aber in Scottish placenames means "confluence" or "river mouth""

If we see "forth" as "fourth" in phonetic cabbala (though I may wrong, it sounds quite close to me but that doesn't really mean something... LOL!), then his name means "confluence of the four(th)"! Which would be a great reference to the quintessence symbol indeed or/and a hint that he may allow that confluence by doing/saying something that will make Harry include the "fourth" house (i.e. Slytherin) in his "force" (another forth/force phonetic cabbala hint?), which started with students from 3 houses in the D.A. (Dumbledore' Army / Dumbledore('s) Aberforth = Dumbledore's force of confluence [of the fourth...] same initials...)

Aberforth does allow the "confluence of the four" in the end by first saving Harry and then giving him a way of entering Hogwarts: he is the "way to the final quintessence" still hidden, yet revealed already, in the mirror.

The circle, the "eye", is also Love: Harry's love, Dumbledore's too, Dumbledore who always stresses its importance - again, even through death...

(PS: We've reached the post #2000! Amazing, isn't it?)

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zelmia - Feb 11, 2008 1:09 pm (#2004 of 2155)
It is himself however that he sees, this true self he still needs to awaken that will reveal himself as the true quintessence. - Yes, this is kind of what I was trying to say. The bookending of the Mirror of Erised at the beginning: Harry's discovery of his "true self" within the Mirror, combined with the protection of Love, is how he defeats Voldemort. Then in DH the discovery of his "true self" as Horcrux (after much "reflection" he determines the true nature of his mission is to destroy Horcruxes, including later himself) - which, creates his own protection of Sacrifice-Love and is how he defeats Voldemort for good.

Hm.. does that make any sense?

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Nicholas Schouten - Feb 13, 2008 12:28 pm (#2005 of 2155)
It sure does make sense Zelmia! Thanks for the mirror additions Elanor. A few comments on that strange cup of tea:

Harry is bleeding from his solar finger as he exits the place where he stays in the Muggle world-his room! As he leaves, he breaks a gift from Dudley, a cup of tea. (The cup, symbolically, is akin to the chalice [see also suit of cups images in Tarot].) The more generalized symbolism of the chalice (as symbolic of the draft/draught of immortality) has been applied to the medieval (Holy) Grail…at the bottom they are identical – secret lore temporarily lost and the draught of immortality…The Grail is also known as ‘the Vessel’, symbol of the ship and of the Ark which hold the seeds of cyclical rebirth and of lost tradition….The symbolism of the Tantric skull-cup is vey similar to that of the Grail. It holds blood (or sometimes tea or alcohol) and is another expression of immortality or of knowledge purchased at the cost of death to this present state of existence, hence the rebirth of the initiate into a superhuman state….Some Western alchemical writings advise the use of skull-cups in achieving the ‘Great Work’ and this clearly reveals a similar symbolism…” (Dict. of Symbols Chevalier, Gheerbrant, transl. by Buchanan-Brown, at pp. 269 [“cup”] and 178 [“chalice”].)

In many ways, this correlates with Elanor's and Zelmia's posts above and with a number of the posts about Hallows in ancient English/Welsh lore, see Elanor’s pre-DH posts at 1472 (Dec. 26, 2007) Deathly Hallows Post and the one following, primarily the following one for these purposes. Throughout this final book there are allusions to death, rebirth, fears of dying, costs of obtaining knowledge and more.

Here Harry is offered a symbolic chalice of tea; yet, because he is still bleeding and focused on that and because earlier he has not “had the time nor inclination” to open the door from his current state of being, we are shown that Harry is still not ready for the final internal and external examination that would result in his psychological rebirth. And this symbolically comes first from his Muggle-side of the family! Dudley, whom most would admit is held in rather lowly esteem by Harry and the readers, has reached across one of Harry’s divides first, but Harry cannot see the gift until too late; many more “deaths” must be obtained before Harry can be “reborn” as the Living Stone.
-Nick

(PS: Soon I will post about those strange trout at the bottom of Lake Windermere! lol!)

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Nicholas Schouten - Feb 14, 2008 5:52 pm (#2006 of 2155)
As a conjunction between the mirror concepts discussed above and the soon to come issues about trout in Lake Windermere, I present a discussion found on the symbolism of "lake":

"More than the sea, the lake provides a mirror for self-reflection and self-consciousness: while its depths, when one can see through the surface of the mirror, are identified with projected unconscious components and fantasies. Thus, water in lakes alludes to the 'connection between the superficial and the profound' (Cirlot). (There is a) belief that the Land of the Dead is at the bottom of a lake or a sea (e.g. among Celts, such as the Irish and the Bretons)..." (Ariadne's Clue Anthony Stevens.)

And so it is that in the Rita Skeeter interview concerning her book about DD, there is the connection to both the mirror/reflections needed by Harry and the Land of the Dead, all in the water element. Sounds like there's more than just another fish story here...
-Nick

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Elanor - Feb 15, 2008 12:02 am (#2007 of 2155)
Looking forward to reading your thoughts about Lake Windermer Nick!

It perfectly makes sense to me Zelmia!

About the lake symbolism in alchemy, Pernéty has a very interesting "lake" entry in his "Dictionnaire Mytho-Hermétique" that says ("home-made" translation):

"LAKE. The Philosophers have often given this name to their vase and to the mercury it contains; because it is a water that has no outlet, like the one of a lake which usually has no other communication than with the rivers which flow into it. But ordinarily the Philosophers have added some epithets to the term of Lake, in order to point out the changes experienced by their mercurial water during the course of the operations. [...}" (pp.234,235)

The lake can then become the "boiling Lake", the "dried out Lake", the "stinking Lake", etc. These epithets are particularly interesting when applied to the Second Task of the Triwizard Tournament in GoF (remember Harry throwing boiling water at the Grindylows, or feeling his skin burn in the water? Or before the task Ron thinking the best would be "Drought Charm" to "dry up" the Lake but knowing it wouldn't be powerful enough?).

The mention of the lake in chapter 2 I think suggests that Harry "digesting" the information both Rita and Doge give is part of his own inner transformation. In a way, Harry is the lake and his "water" will be in turn boiling at Rita's writing but also at the thought of what Dumbledore has not told him. According to Pernéty: "They have called it [the lake] boiling Lake, when this mercurial water is animated by philosophical sulphur" (same entry). A nice image for Harry's anger, isn't it?

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PeskyPixie - Feb 15, 2008 3:10 pm (#2008 of 2155)
I'm not a certified alchemist but I sure enjoy reading and learning from the posts on this thread.

ETA: Elanor, thanks for the links to the posts regarding Trelawney. They were very interesting.

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Elanor - Mar 30, 2008 12:30 am (#2009 of 2155)
It's been a pleasure Pesky! I can't believe how fast these last weeks have passed. Maybe is it time to start on chapter 3? I have taken a few notes, here they are:

Chapter 3 – The Dursleys Departing
The Dursleys Departing is a rather short chapter, uneventful almost, yet bearer of symbols important for Harry’s, and the Dursleys’, journey. There is in this “departing” a separation idea which is not without reminding one of the alchemical process of the same name. Separation is part of Nigredo, and during this operation the alchemist “gains a wider understanding of himself and the cosmos, and learns to discriminate between the true and the false, illusion and reality [...]” (L.Abraham, p.180).
Harry starts his ‘rubification’ process as the DH starts, however Dudley and, in a way, Harry’s relationship with the Dursleys, are still in a Nigredo state. It is an understatement to say that being forced to live amongst wizards must have been for the Dursleys, especially for Vernon and Petunia, a Nigredo-like experience as Separation involves "sorrow and suffering" (from the same entry)... Sorrow and suffering is also a good summary of what awaits Harry.

The chapter however shows that there is still some hope for Dudley and, though we don’t really know, it is possible that the “departure”/separation ended up having a beneficial effect on Dudley, the one depicted in the quote forementioned.
The change in Dudley’s behavior surprises Harry. The fact Jo said after the DH release that Harry and Dudley will still keep in touch in their adult life, even if it will remain a rather ackward relationship, proves that the ‘separation’ also works on Harry: this is a separation from his own old conceptions about Dudley. And another way for Jo to drum out her “appearances are deceiving” theme: even Dudders’ are...

Uncle Vernon’s behavior however does not change one iota in this scene. He will not move further anytime soon on his own journey. Hence why Jo describes him wearing a “fawn zip-up jacket” (DH, p.30, Sch.) as fawn first means “young animal” and comes from the Latin fetus "an offspring" (etymonline), as to show that his intellectual/emotional development is still in an embryonic state. As for Petunia in her salmon-colored coat, she shares the determination associated with the fish symbolism. Maybe her wearing the color of the salmon, also symbol of “courage” and wisdom – it is “difficult to catch” (A.Stevens, Ariadne’s Clue) - suggests that there is still a bit of hope for her as well. The salmon is a water creature, the water of emotions, and Petunia’s are just as difficult to catch for Harry as a salmon is, at least till "The Prince's tale".

Vernon accuses Harry of wanting them to leave so that he would be doing “a bit of hocus-pocus” (p.32) in order to get the house. “Hocus”, etymologically, is the juggler and a ‘hocus-pocus’ an ‘incantation’ used in tricks: in a way, Vernon is right, Harry is about to perform what he still needs to do on the Fool’s road, and become the Fool (juggler) who symbolizes the completion of the Work.
(to be continued in the next post)

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Elanor - Mar 30, 2008 12:42 am (#2010 of 2155)
During the scene with the Dursleys, it is said that “Outside the sun hung low over the privet edges.” (p.33).

The privet is a shrub which Latin name is ligustrum, coming from ligo, to bind. It is also a plant connected to the Moon in alchemy. Harry living, and being protected while there, at 4 Privet Drive, was a symbolic way to refer to the protection of Lily, strengthened by Dumbledore (both connected to the Moon/Mercury principle) , tied (the “biding” meaning of the ligustrum) to this house, to blood links. The very same symbolism was present in the HBP when Dumbledore was telling Vernon how flourishing his agapanthuses were (see post #695).

However, the charm is about to end as the "sun process" starts - just like the sun light is almost touching the privet edges in this third chapter: this is a "separation" too for Harry. The time has come for him to move on, and alone (or at least thinking he is alone, without his mother's and DD's protection), till he meets (reaches may be a better word) his mother and Dumbledore again, at the very end of the story.

The wizards coming to fetch the Dursleys are Dedalus Diggle and Hestia Jones. Dedalus was there at the very beginning of the series, when Harry entered the symbolic “maze” that represents his journey. He is coming back as the last part of the journey starts, when Harry is about to reach the center of the ‘maze’. Therefore, the ouroboros is taking shape: the snake series will soon bite its tail.

The same symbolism is at play when Harry reminds the Dursleys of the last time they have tried to outrun wizards and “there was a brief silence in which the distant echo of Hagrid smashing down a wooden front door seemed to reverberate through the intervening years.” (p.35). A wonderfully ouboros-like sentence, isn’t it?

As for Hestia Jones, her first name is that of the Greek goddess of the Hearth (the Greek equivalent of Vesta) which gives to this departure (and to what the Dursleys will endure) a nice ‘cooking’ tone.

Dudley’s intervention shows that the effort he makes is already rewarding for his journey: not only does he “turn red” but he is also described as “scarlet-faced”. The letter D is also drummed out in this scene by Jo: through all of Dudley’s nicknames (starting with Diddy = “deedee”/DD; Diddykins, Dudders) and through Harry calling him “Big D”. The mere title of the chapter also plays on a nice ‘D’ alliteration.

We’ve often mentioned on this thread the symbolism of the letter D (in connection with John Dee, remember “Dee-John”/Dijon by Hagrid in OoTP and what we said about the ‘3 Ds’? Just enter “John Dee” in the search function of this thread and you will find the link to the posts (not that many) which explain the symbol).
But, in short, the letter D symbolism is very close to that of the ouroboros and to the idea of the completion of the Great Work. In this scene, the letter D tells us again that Dudley is now on the right path and that this “departure”/separation is also the first step leading to the completion of Harry’s journey.

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Solitaire - Apr 14, 2008 7:18 am (#2011 of 2155)
Elanor, you mention the salmon in connection with Petunia. The salmon is a fish that, when mature, returns to its birthplace to spawn and, generally, die. Usually, the idea associated with the salmon returning to its birthplace is that it swims upstream, against the current, so it is exhausted at the end of its journey. Could this foreshadow Petunia's fate? Is she possibly returning to her original home, and will she die there? Or could it mean that she has reached the point where she is tired of struggling and will just do what she must?

Uncle Vernon's "zipped-up" jacket reminds me of him. When I think of something zipped up, I think of it being closed tightly, as he is closed off to so much of life. Just a few thoughts ...
Solitaire

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PeskyPixie - Apr 17, 2008 7:31 am (#2012 of 2155)
So, Petunia dies at/near Spinner's End?

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Elanor - Apr 17, 2008 11:46 pm (#2013 of 2155)
That's a great observation Soli! I really like your interpretation of the symbol and reading it, it came to me that it could be applied to Harry too:

"The salmon is a fish that, when mature, returns to its birthplace to spawn and, generally, die. Usually, the idea associated with the salmon returning to its birthplace is that it swims upstream, against the current, so it is exhausted at the end of its journey."

What if it meant that it is by going to his mother's, and her sister's, birthplace that Harry will in time find the answers to (almost) all his questions? It is by going back to the origin of the story, to the first meeting between Lily and Severus, that he will finally understand. The trip occurs through the Pensieve, and it's more a trip back into time than into a river, but I think the symbol works well. And when Harry arrives to "the origin", he is truly exhausted, and has only one thing left to do: to walk to his death.

Digging a bit more, it may be also a hint connecting Petunia more deeply than Harry thought to the people who considerably influenced his life. One of the greatest Welsh bards (and Jo has been pointing us towards the "bards" of old) was called Taliesin, whose life has become a legend and has everything to do with the Grail symbolism and legends. In the Book of Taliesin, he says:
"I've been a blue salmon,
I've been a dog, I've been a stag,
I've been a roe deer on the mountain,
I've been a trunk, I've been a doe [...]" (Enc. des Symboles, p.289)

The stag, the doe, the dog and the salmon in connection to Petunia: they are all part of Harry's journey to his symbolic Grail. A nice image, isn't it?

Incidentally, it is not the first time that Petunia is described in connection with the color or the 'salmon' fish. In CoS, to meet with the Masons, she is "wearing a salmon-pink cocktail dress" (CoS, p.13). In PoA, while Marge is visiting the Dursleys, Aunt Petunia has cooked salmon for her "fancy dinner" on Marge's last evening at 4 PD. (CoS, p.25: "They got all the way through the soup and the salmon without a single mention of Harry's faults"). Close color-wise is also the fact that we hear in the DH that Harry's bedroom's walls are "a sickly peach color of Aunt Petunia's choosing" (DH, Sch, p.29). And there may be more!

Pesky, that's an idea too! Maybe that, when she will be old, Petunia will feel the need to come back to "her origins" and thus will talk to Harry. That would be a nice ouroboros for her, very 'salmon-like' indeed.

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Solitaire - Apr 18, 2008 7:16 am (#2014 of 2155)
I knew you would explain it, Elanor! I didn't remember all of those salmon references. Hmmmmm ... It sounds like it may be time for a series reread!

I love the Taliesin quote. Very appropriate!
Solitaire

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Nicholas Schouten - Apr 29, 2008 8:07 pm (#2015 of 2155)
Great posts folks, although maybe just a bit fishy

I still remember I promised a post on trout, but perhaps it might be a good time to move on to the next chapter and I will catch up "in due course".
-Nick

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Elanor - May 3, 2008 6:04 am (#2016 of 2155)
Fishy, eh? Well, let's go fishing for clues in chapter 4 then!

Chapter 4 – The Seven Potters
What a wonderful title it is! Seven Potters for the seventh book, as if reminding one that each step in Harry’s journey had resulted in the symbolic death and rebirth of a “new” Harry.
Time has come for the seventh Harry to take flight and reach the Rubedo.
Time has also come for the multiplication process of the Rubedo to start, but I’ll come back to that later.

* The rubedo goal is again pointed out as Harry watches the Dursleys’ car leaving: “The car turned right at the end of Privet Drive, its windows burned scarlet for a moment in the now setting sun, and then it was gone.” (DH, Sch. P.43). The car turns “right”, that is in the right direction, and its windows “burn scarlet”, a Rubedo symbol. Leaving was the right thing to do for the Dursleys and this departure, which starts Harry’s, heralds the “red” coming at the end of the road.

* This new start, this new journey, will see Harry go through darkness again so that he is reborn in time and as such “the hall was full of shadows in the evening light” (p.43). However, the time of deepest Nigredo on the series’ level has already come and is over. That’s why, as Harry remembers how he once felt when the Dursleys used to leave, he realizes “it gave him an odd, empty feeling to remember those times; it was like remembering a younger brother whom he had lost” (p.44). The “younger brother” died as the Series’ Nigredo did, at the end of OotP.

* This chapter also enhances the ouroboros feeling of the seventh book: from Harry visiting the cupboard under the stairs again and remembering how he used to sleep there, at the very beginning of the series, to Harry remembering the dreams he once had, particularly “once – Uncle vernon had nearly crashed the car when Harry had recounted it – [a dream involving] a flying motorbike” (p.44), which happened in PS/SS. As Harry remembers the motorbike dream, Hagrid then just arrives on the said motorbike and it will be on this motorbike, that once brought Harry to 4 PD, that Harry will leave it, both times rescued by the Rubedo mentor.
The closing of a circle.

Interestingly enough, Jo writes that these dreams had “dogged” Harry. The ‘dog’ in alchemy is a ‘cooking of the Stone’ reference and the dreams of the green light (death of the AK) and of the motorbike (a ‘volatile’ device) highlight two of the main symbols of the Great Work (and its ‘cooking of the Stone’): death and the ‘volatile’ principle the alchemist has to ‘fix’.

* The ‘darkened’ characteristic of journey to start is also conveyed by Harry looking into the “black garden”: “the darkness seemed to be rippling, the air itself quivering” (p.45). Harry then sees appearing the motorbike with a “black side-car” attached to it, two Thestrals (deeply connected with the Black stage) and people on brooms.
Hagrid then asks Harry: “All righ’, Harry? Ready for the off?” which, IMO, can be read “ready to leave?”, but also “ready to die?”.
This being the rubedo mentor’s words sets the tone for Harry’s road in the following chapters.
(to be continued)

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Elanor - May 3, 2008 6:06 am (#2017 of 2155)
Chapter 4 - The Seven Potters (part 2)

* The description of the people entering the Dursleys’ kitchen also contains several interesting symbols:

- First, Hermione’s bushy hair is “tied back in a long plait”(p.45). We’ve seen Parvati in GoF and Hannah Abbott in OotP with their hair tied in a plait but I think it is the first time we see Hermione with such a hairdo.

The symbol is important because in alchemical iconography plaits symbolize “solar radiance” (Gineste, L’alchimie Expliquée par son Langage, p.329). Hermione, a Mercury connected character, has a solar hairdo: she shows that we’ve definitely entered the ‘sun’/gold book.

It is also “the symbol of the spiral associated to life” (same entry, emphasis added). Gineste adds that in practical alchemy a plait design appears on the balloon when Dragon’s Blood appear. The last part of the journey will see the symbolic “dragon’s blood” appear (as evoked in this post #1884). Hermione’s role will once again be decisive for reaching that goal. More than her alone, the whole Harry/Ron/Hermione trio will be – united like the three strings of a plait – even if, in the end, Harry has to face Voldemort alone.

Incidentally, the trip on the motorbike already heralds that ‘blood dragon’ time. Indeed, from the start the motorbike with its “deafening roar”, motorbike which later “roared like a dragon” (p.55) when Hagrids starts it, is likened to a dragon, and even more so when, the motorbike being chased, Hagrid actions the “dragon fire”.

The spiral idea is also present in connection with the motorbike as, near the end, Jo writes that it “spiraled through the air, completely out of control” (p.61), before crashing after Harry in turn had actioned the ‘dragon fire’. The dragon of metal then sheds its ‘blood’ (and Harry does bleed when it crashes).

Finally, another image may well bear the same symbolism: Lucius’s wand, with its dragon heartstring core, is destroyed by Harry’s Phoenix wand: another ‘dragon’ is bleeding...

- Mundungus Fletcher’s appearance is also telling: “hangdog, with his droopy basset hound’s eyes and matted hair” (p.46). Here we find the dog/cooking of the Stone symbol again (‘cooking’ idea also present in the nickname of “Dung”): his actions will have decisive consequences for the Quest: he (though unintentionally) suggests to use decoys for getting Harry out of 4 PD, he was the one giving the locket to Umbridge and selling the other mirror of Sirius’s pair to Aberforth.

Mad-Eye later call him “you spineless worm” (p.50), which indicates Dung’s actions will play a part in the final ouroboros as worm was once another word used for “dragon”.
(to be continued also)

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Elanor - May 10, 2008 8:00 am (#2018 of 2155)
And here is the rest of my reading of chapter 4:

* There are some more ouroboros-like moments in the chapter:
- When Mad-Eye explains the plan: “Harry could see flaws in this plan”, which echoes nicely the title of the last chapter “The Flaw in the Plan”.
- Fred and George’s joke after turning into Harry thanks to the polyjuice potion: “Can’t you even tell us apart when we’re Harry? (etc)” which wonderfully reminds one of their joke of PS/SS: “I’m not Fred, I’m George’, said the boy. ‘Honestly, woman, call yourself our mother? Can’t you tell I’m George? (etc)” (PS/SS, p.70).

Some more interesting details:
* Mad-Eye says: “Even You-Know-Who can’t split himself into seven”, which of course he just did, as Harry and Hermione, catching each other’s eye, know perfectly well. Voldemort has split himself into seven – he has shrunk in a way – when Harry here multiplies himself into seven Harrys, an important symbol. As I had posted here at the time of the DH release:
“During the rubification, the multiplication and projection processes take place (which is what Basil Valentine calls Coagulation). During multiplication, “all the colours of the opus are said to appear in rapid succession” (L.Abraham, p.132), as more solve et coagula cycles take place.”.
Harry “multiplies” for the trip and at the end of it is “projected” onto the ground as the motorbike crashes in one perfect image of what the rubedo process will be.

* The Polyjuice Potion with Harry’s hair in it “turned a clear, bright gold”. Simply Perfect. Harry’s ‘essence’ is bright gold, the gold of the alchemical king for the sun/gold book, the philosophical gold – “true gold”, etc, etc. The image is more telling than any comment anyways.

* The fake Potters drink the Polyjuice Potion in “eggcup-sized glasses”. The egg is “the alchemist’s vessel of transmutation in which the birth of the philosopher’s stone takes place” (L.Abraham, p.66). The DH is about Harry’s re-birth as the symbolic Stone but he is not the only one on a journey here. All his friends, ready to risk their lives for him (Dung maybe not so ready), are also undergoing a personal journey, an inner transformation. In a way they will also become “Potters” eventually, that is being transformed at the end of their journey, hence why, during their polyjuiced trnasformation “their feature began to bubble and distort like hot wax”, wax being an albedo symbol (Pernéty, p.82).

* Harry watches his “six doppelgangers”, an interesting word as “in some traditions, a doppelgänger seen by a person's friends or relatives portends illness or danger, while seeing one's own doppelgänger is an omen of death.” (wikipedia). Another omen of death for Harry...

* The members of the Order, taking off, fall into a trap that takes the form of a “vast circle” of Death Eaters: the same idea of a circle/cycle associated with Harry’s “rescue mission”.

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Elanor - May 10, 2008 8:03 am (#2019 of 2155)
* As spells fall on Harry and Hagrid, Hedwig is hit: “The owl screeched and fell to the floor of the cage”. Hegwig dying illustrates one of the key symbols of the last stage of the Great Work, the “fixing of the volatile”.
The same idea is present in the first weapon Hagrid uses against the Death Eaters when, hitting a green button a “wall, a solid brick wall, erupted from the exhaust”, “airborne wall” on which a Death Eater crashes.
In the same way, when Harry sees Hagrid’s body on the ground while falling it is: “spread-eagled on the ground... And of course, Harry and the flying motorcycle, in turn, are “fixed” when they hit the ground.

In addition, the owl symbolizes “introverted and reflective (lunar) consciousness in contrast to the eagle’s extraverted and direct (solar) consciousness” (A.Stevens, Ariadne’s Clue, p.363). The time of “lunar consciousness”, of the albedo, is over, and so dies poor white Hedwig. Here comes the time of the “eagle’s solar consciousness” of the rubedo and the rubedo mentor is to be found “spread-eagled” on the ground.

* Hagrid’s second weapon is a great net, which recalls the Ariadne’s thread symbolism, and the third one the Dragon Fire that Hagrid, and Harry, will use thrice. “Dragon fire” is actually an alchemical term: “it is called Dragon, because it devours all that is corrupt [i.e. “spoilt” in 18th century French]” (Pernéty p.164). Pernéty adds that dragon fire is synonymous of “celestial fire” which is philosophers’ mercury, becoming the philosophical mercury when “enclosed into a Water” (literally); Philosophical mercury is the red result of the conjunction fo the Sulphur and Mercury principles. There is no asking then why Harry finally falls into a pond, is it?

We'll find the same image at play later in the book when the trio will escape Gringott's on the back of a dragon and will then fall into a lake.

* Voldemort is more than ever “volatile”/Mercury connected as he is described “flying like smoke on the wind, without broomstick or Thestral to hold him, his snake-like face gleaming out of the blackness”. Harry faces him now as he will do when the book’s circle will come to a close and as looking at him “he stared into the red eyes and was sure they would be the last thing he ever saw”, the encounter heralds the “death” of Harry at the Dark Lord’s hand when they will meet again in the forest. (Incidentally, the idea of the ‘forest’ is present in Voldemort asking Selwyn for his wand since the Selwyn surname: “may be Norman, derived from Seluein, an Old French form of the Latin name Silvanus (from silva 'wood')” (askoxford.com) )

* There is a beautiful image at play when Harry tries to fight Voldemort in the air: “his wand acted of its own accord. He felt it drag his hand around like some great magnet, saw a spurt of golden fire through his half-closed eyelids, heard a crack and a scream of fury.” The “golden fire” is the mark of the Phoenix wand, the phoenix is a Rubedo bird and his feather produces a rubedo spell. But there is more than that in that image, the key word here (IMO) is the word “magnet” which brings us back to Charity/love. From post # 1942:

“Charity/Love is omnipresent in the DH, beginning with Charity Burbage and what she represents but also though many other symbols we’ll identify as the re-read goes on. Harry’s wand for example is bound to the charity symbolism: when chased by Voldemort in chapter 4, the wand is described acting “like some great magnet” (p.61, Sch.) – a symbol discussed already on this thread when talking about Love and alchemy, see post #1077 - since “aimant” means both “magnet” and “loving” in French. Later on, when remembering what his wand had done on that day, Harry describes it as spinning “like the needle of a compass” (p.351, Sch). The compass, in alchemy, represents “compassion” (Léon Gineste, l’Alchimie Expliquée par son Langage). There will be a lot more to say about Harry’s wand and the compass symbolism but I think it will be important to keep in mind the link between the Phoenix wand and Charity/Love symbolism.”

That's all for now!

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Solitaire - Jun 15, 2008 7:19 pm (#2020 of 2155)
So Voldemort is once again thwarted by the "Phoenix connection"?

Here we find the dog/cooking of the Stone symbol again (‘cooking’ idea also present in the nickname of “Dung”)

Elanor, I don't understand the "dog/cooking" idea. Can you clarify, please?

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Elanor - Jun 18, 2008 6:55 am (#2021 of 2155)
With pleasure Soli!
In fact there are several associations between the dog and the “cooking of the Stone” idea (i.e. the fire, and its action, needed to bring the Philosopher’s Stone to maturation).

First, for the alchemists, fangs are “associated with the crystallization of the secret fire that generates the warmth which goes with the various phases of the Great Work.” (L.Gineste, L’alchimie expliquée par son langage, p.111). Hence why the Rubedo mentor’s dog (which is black, the color of the first matter at the beginning of the Work) is called Fang. Also why Hagrid loves all fangs-bearing creatures, wallets or even books.

Fangs having such a close relationship with fire in alchemy comes from the fact that the hottest part of the summer takes place when the sun is in the Canis Minor and Canis Major constellations. The name of these constellations gave the word “canicule” in French, meaning scorching heat, which etymology is “canicula”-“small dog”, a name which “applied to the Sirius star. Time of intense heat (the Sirius Star or “Canicule” rises and sets with the sun from July 22nd to August 22nd)”. (Le Petit Robert – Dictionnaire de la Langue Française – emphasis added).

This is a symbol Jo uses often, to imply that a situation is important for Harry’s ‘maturation’, first through Sirius of course but also through other characters such as Mundungus Fletcher here, or Aunt Marge in PoA. As for Mundungus, the fire/heat connection is also present in his ‘Dung’ nickname as in alchemy “dung” refers to what is “used to make a gentle heat for the alembic” (L.Abraham, A Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery, p.61). (Well, “gentle” is a matter of point of view, seems to me he’s pretty good at making Figgy and Molly getting all heated, isn’t he? Harry too, come to think of it, especially in the HBP and the DH.).

In addition, Mundungus has ginger hair (a sun related plant), he even ‘smokes’ (like a fire) and his name Fletcher, which means arrow-maker, is not without reminding one that arrows are traditionally an attribute of Appolo, the sun god.

Does it help?

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Solitaire - Jun 18, 2008 11:03 am (#2022 of 2155)
I never cease to be amazed at how you can parse out all of the symbolism contained in such a small reference. It does, indeed, help. Thank you!
Solitaire

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Nicholas Schouten - Jun 20, 2008 5:35 pm (#2023 of 2155)
Bravo Elanor!

By the way, the fang reference [First, for the alchemists, fangs are “associated with the crystallization of the secret fire that generates the warmth which goes with the various phases of the Great Work.” (L.Gineste, L’alchimie expliquée par son langage, p.111] brings to mind the fangs of the basilisk both in the CoS and in DH, which are used at key points as Harry "matures" along his journey.
-Nick

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Solitaire - Jun 24, 2008 7:44 am (#2024 of 2155)
Okay, Audrey ... here is a question--and an observation. Perhaps you can explain if it has any significance or not. In westerns, we find that the "good guy" is the one with the white hat and the bad guy is the one in the black hat. Can we change "hat" to "hair"? Notice that Dumbledore is silver-haired and bearded, and he is a good guy. Luna is also a "good guy." But what about the Malfoys? All three of them have pale, silvery hair, yet they are bad guys throughout most of the series. Then we have black-haired Harry, who is undoubtedly a good guy. Does this play into the alchemical symbolism, or is it purely coincidence?
Solitaire


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Madam Pince - Jun 24, 2008 12:34 pm (#2025 of 2155)
Don't forget black-haired Snape. Where oh where to put him?

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Solitaire - Jun 24, 2008 1:57 pm (#2026 of 2155)
Well, Snape is pretty nasty toward our Hero when dealing with him face to face. I must say, though, that it's interesting to reread the early books knowing Snape's background.

Solitaire

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Elanor - Jun 25, 2008 8:15 am (#2027 of 2155)
Glad you liked the explanation Soli and great detail to add Nick !

Good question about hair! Well, IMO, the color of the characters’ hair is very significant in the series. However, there is no “bad” or “good” color in alchemy: colors are characteristic of a stage of maturation of the Stone or of some related processes/symbols. Without Black, there is no White; without White, there is no Red. They are all necessary components of the success of the Great Work. So the color of a character’s hair is here to emphasize the connection of the character with a particular stage or with a principle, or process at work and not to label him/her as a "bad" or "good" guy.

Dumbledore, Luna and Fleur have white blond/silvery hair because they are all connected to the Mercury principle (often referred to as “the Moon”). So are the Malfoys because of the way they look (hair, pale gray eyes, pale complexion), of their Slytherin connection (Slytherin is the Water element house) and of Draco’s first name. Indeed, Mercury: “as the spirit, is the life-force [...]. It is passive, feminine, cold and watery. [...] Unrefined, Mercury is symbolized by the dragon, the serpent, the Green Lion, and the white woman who, when exalted, becomes the White Queen or the White Lion, the unicorn, or the Moon called Luna and Diana [...]” (The Alchemist’s Kitchen, G.Ogilvy).

Mercury is neither “good” nor “bad”, it is a necessary component for Harry to deal with for his own maturation, in many ways and under many forms (including Voldemort himself, very Mercury-like physically as well, and Harry’s inner “Slytherin side”).

Dumbledore is also the Albedo guide, Albedo symbolized by things pure, white, silver. Hence his silvery hair, the white tomb and why he is wearing half-moon spectacles.

Harry and Snape’s cases are a bit different. Black is the color of the first matter at the beginning of the Work, that of the crude matter from which the Stone is created. So is Harry at the beginning of the Series: some “raw material” which has to grow into the symbolic Stone. Jo could not change the color of Harry’s hair throughout the Series to reflect the progress of his journey, however when Harry vanquishes Voldemort he does so as a “red-gold glow” that “hit both their faces” (DH, p.743 Sch.), symbolically dyeing Harry in red, hair included.

Throughout the Series, Snape is connected to Harry’s Nigredo, hence his black hair. Emotionally, Snape (like Sirius) are also cases of “arrested development” IMO and their black hair, and clothes for Snape, also reflect that: they are stuck in the Black. The symbolism is deeper than that though, especially when taking into account the Snape/Dumbledore relationship as explained here: post #1973.

Incidentally, characteristics of some characters’ hair are just as important as their color: Snape's is black and oily (a reference to the “Saturn’s Oil” symbol), the Weasleys' are “flaming” (a “fire/cooking” reference) and Hermione and Hagrid’s are “bushy”: a promise of “flowers”, with the alchemical idea of “blossoming” (and Hermione will give birth to... Rose, a symbol of the achieved Great Work).

Just a few thoughts!

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Solitaire - Jul 15, 2008 6:30 pm (#2028 of 2155)
Elanor, is there any alchemical explantion why George loses an ear and Fred dies? I know it seems a silly question, but I wondered.

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Elanor - Jul 17, 2008 5:54 pm (#2029 of 2155)
Holey Cow! That is what I call a question Soli!

OK, I would need to check my books (which are in France) and I will try and give a fuller answer to your question once back there but two thoughts are coming to me:

First, in mythology, the heroes with a disability have often exhanged one of their senses in order to gain knowledge from the gods (think of Odin sacrificing one of his eyes to gain wisdom). The missing "part" of their bodies is a visible trace of the gods’ secrets they have learned. Therefore, George's missing ear could be seen as a symbol of "ascent" for him.

Second, in mythology still, it often happens that one of the twins dies (whether one kills the other, think of Romulus and Remus), whether one is killed in a battle (Castor dies, Pollux then shares his immortality with him and they live alternatively). Fred's death is then closer to Castor's death. George can not share his "immortality" as Pollux did but him marrying Angelina is a bit as if Fred was still living through him, don't you think?

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Solitaire - Jul 17, 2008 7:18 pm (#2030 of 2155)
I wondered how the "twin thing" would fit in alchemically, but it does make sense. I do agree that in marrying Angelina and naming their son Fred, it is a bit like giving him immortality ... certainly the best they can do under the circumstances.

I had not thought about mythical heroes who lose body parts, but now I think of Oedipus, who gouged out his eyes. Oddly, he "saw" more clearly. Does this mean George will "hear" differently--either literally or figuratively? I've sometimes wondered if he will invent a normal-sized version of the "extendable ear" that will work more efficiently, sort of like Moody's magical eye. I'm not sure I understand how this would be seen as an "ascent." Is it that he must "transcend" the injury or loss in some way? You will have to explain this a little more when you have your books! Truthfully, in losing Fred, George has lost a much more valuable part of himself than an ear.
Solitaire

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Madam Pince - Jul 18, 2008 6:02 am (#2031 of 2155)
Soli, did you read that fanfic that freshwater recommended on the poll discussions thread? It delves into Fred & George's separation very well, I thought...

I totally forgot that George married Angelina... did JKR tell us that in the post-DH interview?

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Solitaire - Jul 18, 2008 8:52 am (#2032 of 2155)
George and Angelina are on the Weasley family tree on Jo's site, behind the door. I'll check that other thread.

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Elanor - Aug 15, 2008 11:28 am (#2033 of 2155)
Finally I find a moment for checking my books! And find I had already said the main thing about the twins. The alchemical twins are not identical twins: brother and sister which have to unite to create the Stone. Sulphur-Harry and Mercury-Hermione (whom Harry sees as his sister) are alchemically more "twins" than Fred and George. Harry's inner masculine and feminine sides (Gryffindor and Slytherin, fire and water) are also an alchemical twins image.

In symbolism, most of the time, twins represent a pair of opposites which complement each other like hot and cold, left and right, day and night or life and death, etc.

Maybe then is the death of Fred then a way for Jo of "splitting" the apparent unity of the twins, so that they become a "pair of opposites" (one dead, one alive) and thus become more united than ever.

As A. Stevens writes: "Like the black and white halves of the uroboros, day and night are antinomies - though opposites, they complement one another as two parts of the same cyclic whole - and would be meaningless without one another, as it is true of all pairs of opposites [...]. This fundamental antinomy characterizing all archetypal phenomena is expressed in the symbolism of twins". (Ariadne's Clue, p.142).

Fred and George are split so that they fulfill the ouroboros image: they are now one, only symbolically, in the end.

Edit: forgot to add what I meant about "ascent". In mythology, when a god, or a human, want a special gift or power, they often sacrifice a part of themselves. Quoting the same A. Stevens: "The principle underlying the practice of sacrifice is the understanding that one can never hope to get something for nothing. [...] This is usually done on the basis of losing a little of what one hopes to gain in abundance. Thus Tyr sacrifices a hand in order to possess great strength; Heimdallr forfeits an ear to acquire superb hearing; and Odin gives one of his eyes to Mymir to gain access to the well of wisdom at the base of Yggdrasil, the World tree, so as to become master of divination and prophecy." (p.271).

Maybe that losing an ear was the price to pay for George for wanting "superb hearing" (the extendable ears).

Should we send the part about Odin by owl to dear Sybill? No way Miss Cooking Sherry manages real prophecies again with her huge glasses, is it?


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Elanor - Sep 29, 2008 8:40 am (#2034 of 2155)
Just thought I'd post a little detail I have realized yesterday. We have found many symbolic meanings to the name of Slughorn but there is another one we haven't mentioned here yet: the retort.

In French, a retort is called a "cornue", which is the homonym of "cornu", that is... "horned"! The retort was used by the alchemists mostly during the Distillation process, which is the one we have associated with the 6th book of the Series on this thread.

This "retort" meaning also fits very well Slughorn's role of Potions teacher. It may even be a nod towards the "After the Burial" chapter: after all, it is only after being submitted to much "spirit" (alcohol) that Slughorn reveals the crucial memory that had been "spirited away".

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Elanor - Oct 1, 2008 11:25 am (#2035 of 2155)
There is another detail that enhances the "retort" symbolism tied to Slughorn: Jo describes him as having "pale gooseberry eyes" (HBP, p.68) and "goose" is one of the names the alchemists gave to the retort!

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Solitaire - Oct 2, 2008 1:51 am (#2036 of 2155)
It's interesting that slug has so many different meanings. I've heard it used as slang for a drink of liquor. Merriam-Webster.com cites that usage: a quantity of liquor drunk in one swallow b: a detached mass of fluid (as water vapor or oil) that causes impact (as in a circulating system) In addition, I've heard it used to describe a really lazy, slothful person--one who barely moves and does almost nothing.

There is also this usage from Browning's Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came:
"I saw them and I knew them all. And yet
Dauntless the slug-horn to my lips I set,
And blew."

Somehow, the first two remind me of Horace Slughorn ... although it seems he has sounded the battle cry in Hogsmeade, as well.
Solitaire

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journeymom - Oct 29, 2008 8:14 am (#2037 of 2155)
I thought of all of you and this thread last night when we watched Newton's Dark Secret on NOVA last night. It was really amazing. I didn't realize Isaac Newton was so involved in alchemy. He was a brilliant, fascinating man.

pbs.org/wgbh/nova/newton/alchemy.html

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Elanor - Oct 30, 2008 1:20 am (#2038 of 2155)
Thanks for the link Journeymom, this was really fascinating!

Here is what Dennis William Hauck writes in "Sorcerer's Stone - A Beginner's Guide to Alchemy" (p.30):

"One of the most important alchemists of the seventeenth century is hardly recognized for his work in this field, yet Sir Isaac Newton, the famous mathematician and scientist, spent most of his life pursuing alchemy. He wrote over a million words on the subject that have never been published because, after his death in 1727, the Royal Society deemed them "not fit to be printed." The papers were rediscovered in the middle of the twentieth century and most scholars now concede that Newton considered himself first and foremost an alchemist. It is now thought that Newton's laws of light and gravity were inspired by his alchemical work. Alchemical theory equates light with Mercury and the force of gravity with Salt."

The "force of gravity/salt" part reminds me a lot of Ron (IMO the "Salt" principle of the trio): very down-to-earth, having trouble apparating (he's "the boy so solid he can not Apparate half an inch across a room" as Snape put it in the HBP (p.430 Sch)), it even explains why he is having trouble when playing Quidditch!

Thanks for posting those details Soli!
Both put Slughorn into a very positive light as both alcohol and music are symbols for the achieved Work/Quintessence. I'm sorry I didn't answer your post earlier (school has been very demanding) but it's good to be posting again now that Fall break has come.

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Elanor - Dec 3, 2008 9:33 am (#2039 of 2155)
This thread has become very quiet lately. I was wondering if anyone would be interested in discussing the alchemical symbolism of the Tales of Beedle the Bard as they're soon to be released. It seems to me it might be fun, what do you think?

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Julia H. - Dec 3, 2008 12:14 pm (#2040 of 2155)
I'm sure it would be interesting but until we all read the tales, will perhaps the alchemical analysis of DH continue? Those posts were also very interesting to read.

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Choices - Dec 3, 2008 5:58 pm (#2041 of 2155)
This is such a busy time of the year, I'd say that sounds like a good project to start in January. Just my thought.....

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Nicholas Schouten - Dec 5, 2008 7:37 pm (#2042 of 2155)
Hi everybody! Perhaps January might be good time to look at the alchemical aspects of the Tales. On a not-so-alchemical query, don't you think it's interesting that the key "tale" used is the one featuring Death? Is "death", as commonly perceived, really nothing more than a "fairy tale"--giving greater emphasis to DD's perception of death as the next great adventure?
-Nick

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Elanor - Dec 6, 2008 9:01 am (#2043 of 2155)
Great to see you all posting here gain! **waves like mad to Nick! Welcome back!! **

No problem with waiting a bit for the whole analysis! Julia, I'm not forgetting about the re-read but I was just wondering if people were still interested in it as the thread has become so quiet lately. I'll start working on it again soon!

Nick: "Is "death", as commonly perceived, really nothing more than a "fairy tale"--giving greater emphasis to DD's perception of death as the next great adventure?"

Great food for thought! I'd be tempted to answer with a quote:

"Deeper meaning resides in the fairy tales told to me in my childhood than in any truth that is taught in life." F. Schiller

What strikes me most is how incredibly important "tales" are in Jo's universe: we have the Prince's Tale, Hagrid's Tale, Dumbledore telling Harry the "tale" of Riddle's life ("we meet this evening to continue the tale of Tom Riddle" HBP, p.360 Sch.) or telling Harry he will not tell him at once what happened to his hand in the HBP: "It is a thrilling tale, I want to do it justice." (HBP, p.61), etc.

To me, "The Tale of the Three Brothers" is the major piece linking these elements (even Hagrid's tale as it is IMO nothing but a pretext to introduce John Dee ("Dee-John" p.377 OOtP) and the goal of the journey).

Maybe is the "tale" of death a way to emphasize death - and re-birth - as the key element of Jo's universe? The tale format gives at the same time deeper meaning and rich symbolic imagery to the ideas Jo wants to put forth. Just an idea!

BTW, just as an "appetizer" to our alchemical reading of the tales, I am working on a post about the illustration of the fountain of the "Fountain of Fair Fortune" tale (p.32 of the Bloomsbury edition of the book). The alchemical symbolism of the drawing is awesome. I'll have it finished by tomorrow.

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rcs - Dec 6, 2008 10:19 am (#2044 of 2155)
Speaking of that Fountain drawing, did anybody else notice the Deathly Hallows sign near the base of the Fountain?

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Elanor - Dec 7, 2008 6:21 am (#2045 of 2155)
I did notice the symbol rsc and I think it is a key part of what Jo is trying to convey in this image, and in the whole tale as a matter of fact.

The idea of the enclosed garden and the fountain that can be found in its heart is deeply alchemical. Many alchemical images depict enclosed gardens, and several of them bear fountains which look a lot like the one Jo drew. See for example on the alchemy website: the emblem A144 on this page: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (just remove the stars) or the emblem A 018 on this page: www**.alchemywebsite.com/amclglr1.html (from a book called "The Journey of the Fortunate Princes", with a nice parallel to be drawn here with Sir Luckless finding his own "fortune"/luck in the garden).

It will be time later on to really analyze the tale itself but before telling more about the drawing of the fountain, it is still necessary to remember what the garden and fountain stand for in alchemy.

The alchemical garden is usually a rose garden (no such thing as coincidence therefore that the whole book of tales is decorated with roses and the fountain drawing itself is framed with roses). The garden stands for "the alchemists' secret vessel" in which the Great Work takes place. As L.Abraham writes: "The rose garden is usually depicted as an enclosed garden in which the red and white flowers of the elixir or Stone blossom. Psychologically, the blooming of the roses in the garden symbolizes the attainment of wisdom or inner knowledge." (p.84). Which is exactly what happens to the three witches and the knight of the tale.

Other clues are here to tell us that the tale represents a whole journey:
- The fountain is made of 4 basins (for the four elements) but 5 parts (for quintessence, i.e. the achieved Work);

- A snake/dragon is at the same time wrapped around it and makes the body of the fountain (the water issuing from its mouth comes back to its tail: it's the ouroboros/circle symbolism);

- Closely connected to the snake/ouroboros is the Omega glyph drawn on the third basin. All three witches have a name beginning with an "A": Asha, Altheda, Amata; the symbol is clear: they have to reach the "omega", the last letter of the Greek alphabet, to close the circle of their journey, and start another.

The alpha and omega, also known as the "azoth" in alchemy (Azoth: "is formed with the first and last letters of the English alphabet ("a" and "z"), which stand for the beginning and end of all creation - the alpha and omega of the Greek philosophers" (Hauck, p.246) ) is a very important symbol. It is "meant to convey the idea of the absolutely complete and full meaning of the First Matter and its transformations. In this sense, the Azoth represents not just the chaotic First Matter at the beginning of the Work but also its perfected essence (the Philosopher's Stone) at the conclusion of the work."

The "alpha" witches have to reach the "omega" fountain and doing so, at the end of the journey, find true wisdom in themselves. As with any alchemical journey, the journey itself is the reward, not what lies at the end of the road. This is what the alchemists called "philosophical gold". Hence why the witches don't need the fountain anymore when they finally reach it.

The fountain itself is "a name for the magical transforming substance, the mercurial water" that first act as a poison, dissolving the matter of the Stone during the Black Process at the beginning of the Work. Turned into the waters of grace, the mercurial water "washes the blackened matter at the bottom of the alembic and resurrect it" (L.Abraham, p.81). The journey to the fountain (which is marked by "water trials" too, one involving tears and another one sweat, which are both also symbols for the mercurial waters of grace) is that of the transformation of the characters. Their goal represents their own transformation. Hence again why they don't need it anymore when they attain it.

The fountain is also "synonymous with the bath or spring into which the king, as the raw matter of the Stone, steps to be purified of his blackness" (same entry). This idea is illustrated in the tale by the knight's bath which brings the realization of his own journey after the witches'.

(to be continued in the next post, what I wrote was too long to be posted in one post.)

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Elanor - Dec 7, 2008 6:31 am (#2046 of 2155)
Several symbols are drawn on the fountain:

- On the lower basin are the Deathly Hallows symbol and the cypher/glyph of Saturn. They represent the first process of the Work, the Nigredo, that is the death of the matter (the Deathly Hallows are gifts from Death itself and Saturns rules over the Nigredo/Black process). But as the DH symbol shows, the seeds of the achieved Work are already planted, the DH symbol being composed of the triangle (for the three alchemical principles and also for the "fire" element, the one needed for the cooking of the Stone), of the circle (the ouroboros) and of the line (the one, the eventual unity). Going up from there are symbols of important stages of the Great Work.

- The second basin shows the Mystic Eye: knowledge, insight; the eye in alchemy is "similar to an eye which sees, but that does not see, so that it sees, because eyesight does not exist (...). It is in itself that it sees" (A.Roob, Alchimie et Mystique, p. 242). In other words, it is the eye that invites the alchemist to look in him/herself so that he/she can truly see.

Paired with the eye, it the glyph for mercury/quicksilver, "the slippery, elusive spirit which the alchemist must tame or fix in order to make the philosopher's stone" (L.Abraham, p.162), a true slippery friend for the alchemist... (Incidentally, the Malfoys are deeply connected with the Mercury principle in the series). Once tamed, the albification is at hand and a crucial step in the journey has been made.

- On the third basin is the omega letter already discussed and the glyph for Jupiter which represents the alchemical operation called sublimation (through the myth of Jupiter, as an eagle, transporting Ganymede to heaven). The sublimation (/distillation) operations are characteristic of the albification which, when completed, marks the end of the second process of the creation of the Stone.The same idea is conveyed by the wings of the dragon visible between the second and the third basin. Incidentally, the omega symbol is very close to that of the Libra astrological sign symbol which in alchemy also represents sublimation.

- On the last basin are two symbols. The first glyph shows the symbols for the moon and the sun paired, maybe to indicate the completion of the work, the moon being connected to silver (Albedo/white process) and the sun to gold (Rubedo/red process).
(This glyph could also be the glyph for Electrum, the alloy of silver and gold.)

Above the moon/sun is the symbol of Mars. It is particularly fitting to find this symbol at the top of the foutain as the Rubedo/Red Process - the last process at the end of which the Stone is created - is also called the "Reign of Mars", the red planet.

There will be lots more to analyze later on in the tale itself as symbols are everywhere: the three trials for the three processes of the Great Work; the worm/dragon symbol (which is the same we find in the HBP in the Frosty Christmas chapter); the enchanted hill (an allusion to the hieroglyphs of Nicolas Flamel) and the sky that "burned ruby" as the witches and the knight reached their goal to name a few. That will be fun!

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freshwater - Dec 7, 2008 6:37 am (#2047 of 2155)
Wow! Thanks for posting all the alchemical info here, Elanor, it's very interesting and lends a great deal more depth to this simple tale!

I'm looking forward to your further posts and a discussion --in Jan?. I'll bet that the Lexicon would publish your writings on alchemy if you sent it to them.....you should do that!

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Nicholas Schouten - Dec 8, 2008 8:21 pm (#2048 of 2155)
Waving madly back to Elanor (if it [waving madly] is a lunar thing, this must be the albedo phase/stage! or maybe it's the effect of everyone going "lulu" lately!)

Great postings Elanor. Could you, out of the graciousness of your heart, provide a link to the last discussion on this thread of the DH? Thanks in advance.
-Nick

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Elanor - Dec 23, 2008 6:52 am (#2049 of 2155)
Thanks for the compliments Freshwater and Nick!

With all the snow we've had, this December sure has been an Albedo phase Nick! And as the golden time of Christmas with its funny guy in red has arrived, some time for posting again has come as wonferful Rubedo present.

To answer your question, the last DH chapter posted about was the 4th chapter (The Seven Potters), from post #2016 to #2019.

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journeymom - Dec 28, 2008 4:56 pm (#2050 of 2155)
I'll bet that the Lexicon would publish your writings on alchemy if you sent it to them.....you should do that!

I agree! Your break-down of the alchemical symbols in that story would really benefit the Lexicon.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Orion - Dec 29, 2008 3:05 am (#2051 of 2155)
Or you could write your own book with lots of historical illustrations and matching fan art. You should have it by next Christmas.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 29, 2008 5:37 am (#2052 of 2155)
It would be helpful for you to do a breakdown for those of us who do not understand alchemy. I know in the past you have explained things to me! LPO

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Solitaire - Dec 29, 2008 9:00 am (#2053 of 2155)
For those of you who were not here at the inception of this thread, you might want to go back to its archived beginnings. Here is a link to the beginnings of the alchemy thread here on the Forum.

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Elanor - Dec 29, 2008 12:49 pm (#2054 of 2155)
Thanks for the compliments everybody and thanks for giving the link to the first alchemy thread Soli! Also, if you get back to the post #2 of this thread, I had posted a summary of what alchemy is about (post #2).

**waving madly to LPO! Great to see you back on the forum!**

Journeymom, maybe we can send something to the Lexicon when we're done with the analysis of the tales? A summary or something like that.

Orion: "Or you could write your own book with lots of historical illustrations and matching fan art. You should have it by next Christmas."
Or maybe even earlier, lol! But that could be a good idea! Nobody knowing a publisher or literary agent by any chance?

About the tales, I have re-read them taking notes and have started working on them. Here are some first thoughts about the introduction:

I find the format of the tales very interesting. Tales have long been used by alchemists as means to convey images and alchemical teachings. The most famous tale writer, in that regard, is certainly Charles Perrault whose “Tales of Mother Goose” contain many alchemical references (some of which we have discussed on this thread as the “Puss in Boots” story or “Sleeping Beauty”, the later about the meaning of the word “Auror”). And which tales is JKR first mentioning in her introduction to Beedle’s tales? “Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty” (p.xi), two of Perrault’s tales (Cinderella’s myth is older than Perrault’s time but his version is the most famous one).

In the introduction, JKR also mentions that Beedle “was born in Yorkshire” (p. xiii), a detail that finds an echo in the illustrations of the book: the white rose is the emblem of Yorkshire and there are roses on each and every page of the book. The white rose also represents the Albedo, the white process (while the red rose represents the Rubedo, the ultimate red process). Therefore the link between Beedle and Dumbledore goes further than the “luxuriant beard” and the “very similar views” both Beedle and Dumbledore (Albus, the "white" wizard) held on many subjects. They are indeed both linked to the white process/ Mercury principle (just as Hermione is, she who made the “new” translation of the tales from the original runes).

In the same way, Dumbledore’s name is based on the “bumblebee” and the “bee” is just as present in Beedle’s name, another common point which, just like the roses, points out towards the successful Great Work (the bee hive is an image similar to that of the maze which represents the journey of the alchemist that starts the Great Work, while honey represents quintessence, the achieved journey). Beedle is also close phonetically to “beetle” which symbolism is quite similar to that of the bee (“Bees, beetles, and butterflies are symbols of purification and the rebirth of the soul or essence” (D.Hauck, Alchemy, p.62)). As Jo has stated that both Dumbledore and Hermione talk for her in the Series, I think we can safely say – based on the aforementioned connections – that Beedle does too.

A troubling detail of the introduction is the fact that Jo adds that Dumbledore’s notes on the tales “were completed around eighteen months before the tragic events that took place at the top of the Hogwarts’ Astronomy Tower” (p.xv), which means around Christmas time in the OotP: a “white” snowy winter time but also one in the heart of the Series’ Nigredo process. Therefore the content of the tales may be rich in terms of clues and hints for the Seeker who wants to reach the ‘time of the roses’, that is the White and Red stages. Thus it matters not in that Harry never reads any of the first four tales: they are given to Hermione, the “hermetic guide”, at the beginning of the red process as a symbolic device that holds the keys to the success of the Series’ journey. It is, IMO, with this context in mind that the tales must be read.

I am currently working a post linking the first four tales to the four elements and the 5th, the Three Brothers, to the goal of Quintessence. I hope I finish it soon.

(Incidentally, I remembered this afternoon that bards have been mentioned on this thread before: post #2013).

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 30, 2008 9:00 pm (#2055 of 2155)
**Waves back to Elanor** Have you read the books by Michael Scott called The Alchemist the Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel and The Magician I really enjoyed them. The twin main characters have pure gold and silver auras.

One of the great things about the HP series is the explosion in YA literature. There are some good books out there.

EDIT: Multiple edits trying to straighten out the italics. I give up

Edit: I fixed the italics, but I'm not sure this was the way you wanted them.~shepherdess

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Solitaire - Dec 30, 2008 9:49 pm (#2056 of 2155)
Be sure to put this where you want the italics to stop. Just make sure that you take out the space between the slash and the I.

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Dec 31, 2008 6:37 am (#2057 of 2155)
Thanks Soli! It was the space I missed.

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Elanor - Jan 2, 2009 12:09 pm (#2058 of 2155)
I have read them LPO, and really liked them too! I have even posted about them on the "Recommended Readings" thread (here). I loved the idea of Nicolas Flamel owning a bookshop in San Francisco nowadays under the name of Nick Fleming!

Back to Beedle! Here is the post I have been working on, linking the tales to the Elements. I had first made an Excel chart for myself (I'm an Excel freak) because I thought it was reading best in a chart than in columns. But as I am hopeless at html charts and I wanted to post this before the new year got too old, I've tried to turn the chart into a list-like post. I hope it will still make sense that way. I'm currently working on more posts, detailing each tale.

Elements
1 - Hopping Pot - Fire (under the pot)
2 – Fountain - Water
3 - Hairy Heart - Air (the organ connected to the Air element is the heart)
4 - Cackling Stump - Earth (Babbitty hides in an underground hole)
5 – Three Brothers - Quintessence (The tale holds the key to reaching Quintessence)

Humor associated to the Elements
1 - Hopping Pot - Bilious
2 – Fountain - Phlegmatic
3 - Hairy Heart - Sanguine
4 - Cackling Stump - Melancholic
5 – Three Brothers

Organ associated to the Elements
1 - Hopping Pot - Liver
2 – Fountain - Brain
3 - Hairy Heart - Heart
4 - Cackling Stump - Spleen
5 – Three Brothers

Type of Elements / Main Character(s)
1 - Hopping Pot - Masculine / Wizard’s son
2 – Fountain - Feminine / Three witches (and the knight)
3 - Hairy Heart - Masculine / Warlock
4 - Cackling Stump - Feminine / Babbitty
5 – Three Brothers

Tarot Suit connected to the Elements / Suit Images in the Tale
1 - Hopping Pot - Wands / The wizard has to cast spells in every direction.
2 – Fountain - Cups / The “cups” of the fountain.
3 - Hairy Heart - Swords / The silver dagger used by the Warlock and the note precising that a warlock is “learned in duelling and all martial magic” (p.57).
4 - Cackling Stump - Pentacles-coins / The gold, silver, rubies requested by the charlatan.
5 – Three Brothers - Quintessence/achieved Great Work is linked to the image of the Fool of the Major Arcana: the last sentence of Dumbledore’s notes reads (DD who symbolizes quintessence in the Series): "which only goes to show that, clever as I am, I remain just as big a fool as anyone else." (p.105).

Elements/Hogwarts houses and their characteristics
1 - Hopping Pot - Gryffindor / Chivalry (to give help to Muggle in need)
2 – Fountain - Slytherin / Ambition, cunning (they want “fortune”)
3 - Hairy Heart - Ravenclaw / Wit, study (Skilled wizard, lacking emotions)
4 - Cackling Stump - Hufflepuff / Hard-working, dependable (Witch is a washerwoman; protects her fellow wizards.)
5 – Three Brothers - Quintessence: DD's favorite tale; need to master the skills connected to all elements.

“Morals” of the tales: (in short, there would be more to say about them)
1 - Hopping pot: One needs to use one’s special skills to help those in need (thus a wizard must use his magic to help Muggles in need); a wizard must not despise Muggles.
2 - Fountain: One has to find the resources in oneself and be aware of one's skills/strengths; one must go on a inner quest to find the center of one’s own “maze”.
3 - Hairy Heart: One must not fear to love and accept all human emotions: “to hurt is as human as to breathe” (DD's notes p.57).
4 - Cackling Stump: One must play on one's skills and particular abilities (Babbitty is an Animagus); one can’t bring back the dead.
5 - Three brothers: One can’t “cheat” death, only by accepting death can one fulfill one's journey.

Therefore, the Seeker - Harry - must have understood (and put to use) the moral of the first four tales and finally accept to "meet death" in order to become "the Fool", reach Quintessence, and achieve his quest.

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Quinn Crockett - Jan 2, 2009 1:02 pm (#2059 of 2155)
Humor associated to the Elements 1 - Hopping Pot - Bilious 2 – Fountain - Phlegmatic 3 - Hairy Heart - Sanguine 4 - Cackling Stump - Melancholic 5 – Three Brothers

Organ associated to the Elements 1 - Hopping Pot - Liver 2 – Fountain - Brain 3 - Hairy Heart - Heart 4 - Cackling Stump - Spleen 5 – Three Brothers

Elanor, could you please explain why these organs are associated with each tale (apart from the heart, of course, which I think is obvious). I think I would then understand the Humors better. Thanks!

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Ludicrous Patents Office - Jan 2, 2009 3:46 pm (#2060 of 2155)
Thank you Shepherdess! LPO

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Elanor - Jan 3, 2009 12:20 am (#2061 of 2155)
With pleasure Quinn!

In fact, the above list is based on the chart of correspondences between the elements and their associated humors. My source when it comes to humors is always the great book by historian François Lebrun: "Se soigner autrefois. Médecins, saints et sorciers aux XVIIè et XVIIIè siècles" (Medecine of Old: Doctors, Saints and Sorcerers in the 17th and 18th Centuries).

So fire is connected to the bilious humor, which itself is connected to liver and bile as a body fluid (which was the main thing: the balance between the "fluids" in the body meant health, unbalance illness).
Water is connected to the phlegmatic humor (itself connected to brain; body fluid: phlegm).
Air is connected to the sanguine humor (itself connected to the heart; body fluid: blood).
Earth is connected to the melancholic humor (itself connected to spleen; body fluid: black bile).

IMO, the chart of correspondances finds a very interesting echo in the tales. The heart/blood/sanguine humor in particular fits well the Hairy Heart tale (or air-y heart?). The references to the other humors are less obvious in the other tales but nods can be seen.

The dry and hot bilious humor, also called "choleric", is often connected with ambitious, quick to be angry people (colère is "anger" in French) which applies well to the young wizard of the tale. The illnesses of the villagers mentioned in the tale (most of them being "digestive") fit too. Knowing Jo speaks French fluently, I wouldn't be surprised if the fear the young wizard experiences in the end would also be a nod in that direction: in French, the phrase "to have the livers" means to be scared.

The phlegmatic humor is wet and cold, a humor often associated with being calm, unemotional. The way the witches have to think to find how to pass the trials set on their path (more or less all related to water) fit well too.

The dry and cold melancholic humor is that of autumn, associated with being considerate, creative, preoccupied with others' problems. The witch of the tale is old (at the "autumn" of her life) and her temperament fits well the above description. Here also, there can be a funny nod to a French phrase: "to run like a spleen-less man" means to run flat out, which is exactly what the witch does after being revealed by the charlatan.
Does it help?

I'm still working on the posts about each tale but it should be done soon.

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freshwater - Jan 3, 2009 6:18 am (#2062 of 2155)
Very, very interesting, Elanor...thanks for explaining!

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Elanor - Jan 7, 2009 7:44 am (#2063 of 2155)
Thanks Freshwater!
A few notes on the first tale:

The Wizard and the Hopping Pot (all quotes from p.3 to 11)

* Although the Hopping Pot is the Fire/Wands/Masculine/Gryffindor tale, the “lucky cooking pot” of the wizard also indicates the need for the young wizard to deal with the emotions of the Water/Cups element. Refusing to help the Muggles who need it leads the pot to be filled with the woes and emotions of the Muggles: groans of hunger, baby cries, whinings, etc. The once empty cauldron even fills itself up with tears: it becomes full to the brim with emotions. Only when the young wizard symbolically puts a fire under the cauldron, that is uses his magic, making people believe he can brew solutions to all his neighbor’s woes in his cooking pot, can he find peace again. This is a fire (represented by the wizard)/water (represented by the pot) conjunction, and the sign the wizard has achieved his journey.

* The journey had started with the young wizard despising what his father had left him after his death. When finding a small package in the pot “he opened it, hoping for gold, but found instead a soft, thick slipper, much too small to wear and with no pair.” Cursing his father, the wizard resolved “to use it as a rubbish pail.”
In alchemy, true gold is “alchemical gold”, that is what the alchemist has learned on his journey. The wizard hopes for gold and it is indeed gold that his father has left him, not in a solid way however but in an alchemical way: when finding the slipper, the son starts a journey that will change him and teach him all he needs to understand to live a fulfilling life.

* The son wants to use the pot as a rubbish pail which reminds one that alchemists used to say that the materia prima (first matter) from which the Philosopher’s Stone was made “was to be found anywhere and everywhere, even in the despised dunghill” (L.Abraham, p.62). The rubbish pail image therefore underlines the idea that though the son despises the pot, he has still been given the matter to the symbolic creation of his own Stone, that is his own transformation.

* The slipper in itself is a symbol of the journey the wiazrd has started since shoes (and socks, so important in the Series!) are “originally symbol of journey – the first god wearing shoes is the divine messenger, the Greek Hermes (the Roman Mercury) whose sandals are equipped with wings” (Enc. Des symboles, p.126).
If the slipper of the tale has no pair, it is because it needs to be paired with the young wizard, they need to become a “team” (the water (Mercury – the pot/slipper)/fire conjunction already mentioned).

* After the son refuses to help an old woman, he saw that the old pot “had sprouted a single foot of brass. Brass, like laton, symbolizes in alchemy “the unclean body or raw stuff of the philosopher’s stone which must be cleansed of its impurities” (L.Abraham, p.114): the journey has truly begun for the young wizard. The warts covering the pot represent the same need of “cleansing” of the matter.

(to be continued in the next post)

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Elanor - Jan 7, 2009 7:45 am (#2064 of 2155)
* The second visitor complains about the loss of his donkey, making the pot issue brays of donkey and groans of hunger as a result of the wizard's refusal to help.
In alchemy, the donkey is connected to antimony which is used to purify the matter of the Stone. By way of phonetic cabala (that is alchemical play on words), “antimoine” (in French) is similar to “âne-timon”, that is “shaft-donkey” which, based on a Biblical reference, represents the process leading the alchemist to the “mercurial waters” that will cleanse the matter (L.Gineste, p.58). Therefore the horrible noise made by the pot is similar to the action of antimony and enhances the need of “cleansing the matter”, that is changing the young wizard.

* More cleansing symbols come with the third visitor: the sobbing young woman whose baby was ill resulting in the pot starting slopping tears everywhere on the floor when the wizard refused to help her. Tears indeed represent “the mercurial waters which cleanse the blackened, dead matter of the Stone lying at the bottom of the alembic” (L.Abraham).

* Finally, when the wizard could not bear the pot’s cries anymore he started helping everybody in need (“at every house of sickness and sorrow” – a reference to the “black” phase of the Great Work in which the wizard was till this point). Having been changed by what the pot had made him endure and understood what he had to do, he could start acting as a “Stone/Elixir of life” and heal as much as he could.
As always, Jo manages to hint that what the wizard needs to reach his goal is love (although here, fear motivates the wizard rather than love). Indeed, the wizard “doused in dittany” the sick baby. Dittany is a plant native to Crete where its name means… “love”. Doused in “love”, the baby awakes “well and rosy”, that is rose-y, indicating a fulfilled task.

Another clue pointing towards the achieved journey at the end of the tale is this sentence: “Well, Pot? Asked the trembling wizard, as the sun began to rise.”, dawn being also a symbol for the successful Great Work (dawn comes after the black phase of the Work). And it is together, “paired” at last, that the pot and the wizard “set off back to the wizard’s house”.
The circle is then closed, the journey over.

* Interestingly enough, the drawing present at the beginning of the tale shows the slipper (the journey; Mercury), a wand (fire), water/tears (cleansing of the matter) and three slugs. The slugs represent “the silent tendency of darkness to move towards light” (Cirlot, p.299).

Dumbledore’s notes on the tale (the “H.P.” tale incidentally, sort of famous intials, aren’t they?)
The fire element is emphasized in the notes when DD reminds one that in the 15th century helping muggles “was tantamount to volunteering to fetch the firewood for one’s own funeral pyre.” (p.13).

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freshwater - Jan 7, 2009 8:21 am (#2065 of 2155)
Wow, Elanor, I think you should write --and publish!-- The Alchemical Companion to The Tales of Beedle the Bard! This is fascinating and makes the tales so much more meaningful!

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Elanor - Jan 10, 2009 5:53 am (#2066 of 2155)
That would be great Freshwater! Just someone gives me more time, and a publisher and, and, and...

What about starting on the second tale?

The Fountain of Fair Fortune (p.21 to 35)

Posting about the great drawing of the fountain a few weeks ago has given me the opportunity to mention what are (IMO) the main symbols of the tale already, especially the meaning of the garden, the clues telling this tale also represents a whole journey, the meaning of the fountain and of the symbols drawn on it. See here, post #2045 and the following one.

However some details of the tale itself need to be developped:

* The very first sentence of the tale tells us that the fountain is set “high on a hill”. The hill/mountain “belongs beyond all doubt to the symbolism of levels as: a means of ascent to a higher level spiritually, morally, socially, or consciously” (A.Stevens, Ariadne’s Clue, p.109) and it is as such that the symbol has been used by the alchemists. For them, the mountain is first the place where the matter of the Stone is said to be found, a place where the “Regal herb” described by Nicolas Flamel and the flowers of the Great Work grow (just like in the tale the fountain is “set amidst herbs and flowers rarer and more beautiful than any they had seen yet”).

Some alchemists, such as Roger Bacon, “advised the alchemist to construct his furnace in imitation of the moutains where metals were thought to be engendered from the materia prima” (L.Abraham, p.132). The garden and the fountain on its hill thus become the furnace in which the witches and the knight fulfill their journey.

In addition: “Metaphysically, going up into the mountains means to rise in awareness in order to come to know the materia prima […]. When Nicolas Flamel advised the alchemist to […] go to the seventh mountain […] he meant that the alchemist had to rise high enough in awareness to be able to observe the very matter of creation.” (L.Abraham p.132). “To rise high enough in awareness” is exactly the task of the witches and the knight.

Therefore, the three trials the witches and wizard endure logically then start when then reach the “foot of the hill on which the Fountain stood”. The second trial happens “halfway up the steep slope” as they struggle to climb the hill and the last one when they reach “a stream that ran round the hilltop”.

* The tale takes place “on the longest day” of the year, that is Midsummer which, in the annual cycle, represents the “darkening phase” of the year as, from there, days become shorter. On that day people “gathered in the darkness” and the three witches of the tale, like the others were “wait[ing] for sunrise” in the darkness. This is to show that the journey always begins with the “dark” phase of Nigredo, the seeker longing for “dawn” (awareness, etc). The knight on his “bone-thin horse” shares the same symbolism as bones and skeletons are also symbols of the black phase.

This is also the reason why, at the end of the journey, when reaching their goal, the “sky burned ruby” – the color symbol of the achieved Great Work.

(to be continued in the next post)

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Elanor - Jan 10, 2009 5:56 am (#2067 of 2155)
* There are three trials – just as there are three stages in the Great Work - which require proofs of pain (a black stage characteristic), fruit of one’s labour (the great “work”) and the treasure of one’s past, that is to leave what they thought was a treasure to gain the real treasure, that of the awareness at the end of their road.

* The worm of the first trial is a symbol similar to that of the snake (“worm” and “snake” were once synonymous words (hence why the “Wormtail” nickname btw, Peter symbolically “biting his own tail” – the ouroboros symbol – when being killed by his own hand)). In alchemy “the mercurial worm […] is both the devouring worm of death consuming all corruption and the nourishing worm of life which feeds the alchemical chick, the infant Stone with its nourishing substance” (L.Abraham, p.220). The witches had started in the darkness of the Nigredo phase, the worm consumes this pain/darkness and leaves.

Asha’s tears, drunk by the worm, also represent the mercurial waters that cleanse the blackened matter. Asha’s name, which contains “ash” (that is what remains after calcination in alchemy) fits very well this part of the Great Work also.

Just like the other two witches, her “alpha” name (beginning and also ending with an “a”) not only hints that she is at the beginning of her journey (as said in the post about the drawing: the “omega” is drawn on the fountain, the goal of the journey) but it also suggests that each of the witches had indeed in herself the ‘material’ (materia prima would say an alchemist) to her inner transformation, and success. Asha, ill, had in herself to rise from her “ashes”, like the phoenix, and be healed.

* The second trial requires Altheda’s sweat as payment for the witches to go on: sweat, just like tears, represents the mercurial waters of grace.

Altheda’s ‘alpha’ name also reveals her strengths: indeed Altheda is a variant of Althea which means “healer”/”healing herb”, hinting to Altheda’s gift with plants and potions. (The name comes from that of a shrub, the Althaea officinalis - that is marshmallow -which name comes from the Greek Altho (to cure)).

* The third trial, like the first two, is also connected to water with the trial set by the stream. This tale is definitely the “water” one. Interestingly enough, the terms of the trial are written on a stone and once Amata gave her memories to the stream “stepping stones appeared”: stones again, the goal is reached.

Just as the dittany of the first tale was reminding us of Love as the key element of the journey, Jo gives us the name of “amata” in this tale. The Amata ‘alpha’ name of the witch is the Latin root of the name Amy and it is the past principle of the Latin verb “amare” that is, to love. Therefore Amata means “beloved”. It fits well Amata, her broken heart and the knight falling in love with her. The name reveals Amata's ability to love again and sets 'Love' as the very key of the last trial the witches endure.

* In his notes, Dumbledore speaks of the “seekers after Fair Fortune” (p.38): the word "seekers" is a nod towards the Greak Work and its journey.

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Dryleaves - Jan 10, 2009 10:29 am (#2068 of 2155)
Elanor, in every trial Sir Luckless gives a try at first and fails, and every time he uses something which is made of metal (his sword, a coin, his shield). Does this have any specific meaning or is it just a way to emphazise that it is water that is really needed?


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Elanor - Jan 11, 2009 1:25 am (#2069 of 2155)
Sir Luckless! I can't believe I had forgotten him, thanks for posting about him Dryleaves! I think you are spot on: there is an "ordeal by water" awaiting him too.

Not only does he try each of the three trials using something made of metal but he also loses it each time: the blade of his sword snapped, his "only coin" "rolled away and was lost" and finally his shield sank. It is as though he was little by little being deprived from everything that he thought was his strength: his weapons and money. Like the witches, he is left only with what is in himself, after having given proof to the witches of his chivalry.

I think Jo is giving us the alcheminal meaning of the Knight's journey in this sentence:

"As the sun fell below the horizon, Sir Luckless emerged from the waters with the glory of his triumph upon him, and flung himself in his rusted armour at the feet of Amata, who was the kindest and most beautiful woman he had ever beheld." (p.34, emphasis added).

The knight had... to rust!

In alchemy, "the fountain is also "synonymous with the bath or spring into which the king, as the raw matter of the Stone, steps to be purified of his blackness" (same entry). This idea is illustrated in the tale by the knight's bath which brings the realization of his own journey after the witches'." (from post #2045).

Rust in alchemy refers to the "corruption" process the metal/stone "must pass in order to be purified or redeemed" (L.Abraham, p.175) - which fits well the knight's "ordeal" here.

But there is more than than because to rust is also to take a reddish color. In French "rouille" (rust) and "roux" (the color) mean reddish (red hair are "roux" in French for example; the English "rust" also comes from "red"). As such, "rust" has everything to do with the reddening final stage of the Great Work. According to Pernéty, rust is the color "taken by the matter before reaching the crimson color. [that of the achieved Stone]. This is why the Philosophers have given the name of Mars to this color, which duration is, according to them, the time of this god's reign." (p.443).

This is why, on the last cup of the drawing of the fountain, is the glyph representing Mars. As posted about the drawing:

"Above the moon/sun is the symbol of Mars. It is particularly fitting to find this symbol at the top of the foutain as the Rubedo/Red Process - the last process at the end of which the Stone is created - is also called the "Reign of Mars", the red planet." (post #2046).

The fact the "rusting" character is a knight also underlines the reference to Mars: he is a warrior and Mars the god of war. The "glory of his triumph" Jo describes about the knight also heralds the "reign" of this god.

(Incidentally, the word "triumph" also rings an alchemical bell: the "Triumphant Chariot of Antimony" by Basil Valentine is a very famous alchemical text.)

One last thought: two of the first objects the knight uses and loses are the symbols of two Tarot suits/elements: the sword (air), the coin (earth) and the knight finally bathes in the "cup" (water) of the fountain. The "wand" (fire) suit is missing (although the word "chivalry" applied to the knight could be seen as a wands/fire/Gryffindor nod) but there is still the idea that the knight, connected to three of the elements along his journey, has to reach the fourth from which he will emerge in a quintessential state. And this quintessential state is... in love!

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Nicholas Schouten - Jan 13, 2009 8:51 pm (#2070 of 2155)
As for fire, I just mention in passing that rust is a result of oxidation, which is frequently associated with "burning" or "fire".

Bravo on your analysis Elanor!
-Nick

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Elanor - Jan 14, 2009 6:35 am (#2071 of 2155)
Thanks Nick!

Great detail to add on the "fire" aspect of "rusting". It further develops the symbolism of the scene: this "fire" happens while the Knight is in the water: this is a fire/water (Sulphur/Mercury) conjunction and another symbol for the fulfillment of the knight's journey.

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Elanor - Jan 18, 2009 6:35 am (#2072 of 2155)
I've continued my musing on the Tales, here's the next one.

The Warlock’s Hairy Heart

* This tale is different from the first two because it is not the tale of a journey to being a better human being and fulfilling one’s personal journey. From the beginning, the warlock is presented as using the Dark Arts (and literally getting a “dark (h)eart”) which leads him not to light and fulfillment but to more darkness, what Dumbledore calls “a descent to beasthood” and ends in a redemption-less death.

The warlock “locks away his own heart” and refuses to feel human feelings and to maybe hurt from them. Without Love, there can be no quest for the Seeker and the paralell between the Warlock and Voldemort becomes even more striking when Jo has Dumbledore say in his notes: “The resemblance of this action to the creation of a Horcrux has been noted by many writers.” (p.58). Having become immune to love, like Voldemort, the Warlock is stuck in Nigredo, like Voldemort.

Without Love, his journey is a dead-end, literally and figuratively.

* The Nigredo symbols thus abound in the tale: the heart has been taken “to the deepest dungeon” and although the warlock’s table is “laden with silver and gold”, it is “down to the locked dungeon” that he leads the maiden. The heart is in a “crystal casket”, later called in the tale a “coffin” (a Nigredo symbol also). Tale also says that the heart had grown “blind and savage in the darkness to which it had been condemned”, that is in the Nigredo to which it has been condemned.

* The tale in the series of tales is like a warning about what a no-journey a journey without Love is but it also brings forth the Air element among the tales (it is the the (h)air-y heart after all…). Heart and blood images (the warlock licking the maiden’s “shiny scarlet heart” he held in his “bloody hand”, the pool of blood to be seen on the drawing at the end of the tale) point towards the sanguine/heart/blood humor connected to the Air element.

In the same way, the silver dagger used by the Warlock, the note precising that a warlock is “learned in duelling and all martial magic” (p.57) and what the warlock experiences when the maiden touches him once his heart is back in his chest (“all pierced the newly awakened heart like spears”) point out towards the Swords Tarot suit, the one also connected to Air.

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Elanor - Jan 25, 2009 1:09 am (#2073 of 2155)
Maybe I should go on with the next tale?
Here are a few thoughts about:

Babbitty Rabbitty and Her Cackling Stump

* In Dumbledore’s notes it is mentioned that the character of Babbitty Rabbitty was created after that of Lisette de Lapin which is obvious etymologically: lapin means rabbit in French and Elizabeth is most probably the root of both Lisette (which does come from Elisabeth) and Babbitty.

* As for the rabbit, it has a Mercurial function in alchemy, leading the alchemist all the way through the Work. A famous alchemical drawing even shows rabbits (or hares) entering underground holes, leading the alchemist (blind till he reaches the place) all the way to the 7 degrees of the initiation that will end in the creation of the Stone. You can see it here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (image A143) (just remove the ** - next image, the A144 shows a fountain which design is very close to that of the fountain tale btw). Therefore Babbitty can be seen as a guide in this tale, a guide for the king but above all a guide for the reader on his own journey.

Incidentally, this is not the first time Jo has used this image: in the Series, the “Burrow” shares the same symbolism.

* The beginning of the tale presents dark times for witches and wizards who are chased by a “Brigade of Witch-Hunters” helped by “a pack of ferocious black hounds”. Nigredo times then (beginning of the Work) but also times of transformation as the dog in alchemy represents (in short) the “cooking” of the Stone.

* The foolish king wants to know how to perform magic and the charlatan who becomes his “Instructor in Magic” asks “a large sack of gold, so that he might purchase wands and other magical necessities. He also requested several large rubies, to be used in the casting of curative charms, and a silver chalice or two, for the storing and maturing of potions.”

The gold, rubies and silver are of no use but the ‘quest’ the king is starting, very different from what he imagined at first, will see a golden end. As always, it is not the material gold that counts (in this tale it only buys fake magic/journey) but what one learns (philosophical gold). The gold however reminds one that this is the Earth/Pentacles (Coins) Tarot suit tale.

* Babbitty is “the washerwoman who kept the palace linen soft, fragrant and white”. The image of the washerwoman is very important in alchemy. The third emblem of Michael Maier’s Atalanta Fugiens shows a washerwoman and bears the motto “Go to the woman who washes the sheets and do as she does” (Here is the image: http:**//**hdelboy.club.fr/embleme_3.jpeg). Some other alchemists have written on the same image, giving advices such as “’Go and look at the women who are employed over the washing and fulling of linen: see what they do, and do what they are doing’” which “simply means ‘to cleanse the matter of its impurities’” (L.Abraham, p.115), resulting in sublimation and the accomplishment of the White Stage. Meeting Babbitty will put the king back on the right track and “cleanse” the future of the wizards living around.

* Threatening to behead the charlatan if his people laugh at him, the king tries to impress everybody with his “magic”. Decapitation is a Nigredo symbol and the first ‘magic’ the king performs recalls the same idea as he vanishes a hat. It is also a very ‘volatile’ bit of magic.

In the same way, the flying horse, the second attempt at magic the king performs, is the illustration of the horse as symbol of the volatile (Mercury) principle in alchemy. The rabbit represents the same principle and these two spells reveal Babbitty’s hand behind the magic: even hidden she is still calling the tune.

* The king then tries to bring back to life a dead hound named Sabre (that is the “fire of the philosophers” for Pernéty, p.445) but the dog can’t be revived. This is the end of the trickery. If we liken the attempt at magic of the king to an alchemical attempt to make a Stone, then Sabre is truly dead: the fire is extinguished.

* Thinking Babbitty has turned herself into a tree, the charlatan has the king’s people cut the tree with an axe. “To strike with an axe is to cook” says L.Gineste (L’alchimie expliquée par son langage, p.167) and when Babbitty then threatens the king of feeling “like an axe stroke in your own side” each time he would persecute witches or wizards, it is to ‘cooking’, that is maturation, that she sentences him.

* The tree bears a hole between its roots and this reminds one of the image of the hollow oak in alchemy which represents the alchemical vessel in which the Stone is created, hence why the final scene of the tale, which sees the wizarding world safe again, happens there and why a golden statue of Babbity is set on the stump, to show the accomplishment of Babbity’s task.

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freshwater - Jan 25, 2009 7:01 am (#2074 of 2155)
Nicely explained....thanks, Elanor!

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Nicholas Schouten - Jan 25, 2009 8:35 pm (#2075 of 2155)
Elanor,

Regarding the Warlock's Hairy Heart, what do you make of the maiden the Warlock chooses (and of those social pressures which nudge her towards him to some extent) and her death? Certainly her actions and insistence disturbed the status quo and her expectation of the "heart" effect was very off the mark! Do you see an alchemical "reasoning" for these things to be in the story?
-Nick

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HungarianHorntail11 - Jan 26, 2009 8:26 pm (#2076 of 2155)
Elanor, could you elaborate a bit on the decapitation connection with Nigredo? I don't have my notes with me but that was not the connection I had (I'm quite certain) and I'd love to know more about it.
Hi Nick!

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Elanor - Jan 28, 2009 11:36 am (#2077 of 2155)
Some very good questions! I thought I could post something today to try and answer them but the day has passed way too fast for that. I will post about them this weekend though, it should be a much quieter time!

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Elanor - Jan 31, 2009 8:08 am (#2078 of 2155)
Nick, your question has made me think of the heart in alchemical imagery and I remembered an illustration of the Aurora Consurgens which shows two persons, one of which is holding her heart in her hand (her liver and brain are in no better shape in that image). Anyways, the image represents the 4 elements (in relation with the 4 organs representing each humor) and the text that goes with this image tells of a “fifth force” which is “neither hot nor cold, neither humid nor dry (...) and it is called life, which unites the four and gives them vital strength and perfection” (A.Roob, p.569). The warlock can’t be “one” as one of the “four” is missing.

The parallel with the Horcruxes becomes even stronger if we think of the maiden as the being who is “whole”, reminding one of DD telling Harry the agony it was for Voldemort to possess Harry during the ministry battle, Voldemort who “was such in a hurry to mutilate his own soul, he never paused to understand the incomparable power of a soul that is untarnished and whole.” (HBP, p.511). The maiden is “whole” and urges the warlock to become whole again but her seemingly good idea fails because the warlock does not do it in the hope of becoming one again (the equivalent of the “remorse” the one who has created a Horcrux must feel to mend one’s soul), he only did it “to please her”.

The heart is “source of life”, it is the “sun of the microcosm” (A.Roob, p.529) (that is the human body). The warlock’s heart, grown wild, can not be the “sun” of the warlock anymore and the warlock in his madness then attempts to exchange it for the maiden’s, in a way finally aware he needed a true heart but blind to the means to transform his own. In the end, the maiden was right, she did not realize that being right would involve her dying though.

The image that ends the tale (p.54), which presents the bodies of the warlock and the maiden, she as white and fair as he is dark and gray/black, dead together might hold the answer to the “why did she have to die” question. In this image, they appear as a true pair of opposites, joined in death, just like the alchemical king and queen must die together for the alchemical child, that is the Stone, to be born. The impact of this tale on the people hearing/reading it might be the “Stone” born of their death. Maiming one’s soul, maiming one’s heart: it’s a bad idea and not the way to a successful journey – there’s no cheating to that individuation/being one thing!
******
As for decapitation and Nigredo, here’s from L.Abraham’s “Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery”:

“The decapitation or dismemberment of the bird, lion, serpent, dragon, tree, man or king signifies the dissolution, putrefaction and division of the body, the matter in the alembic, at the black nigredo, the first step of the opus. [...]

Metaphysically, the decapitation represents the freeing of the soul from the prison of the body so that through detachment it can gain the ability to discriminate between the merely natural man, bound by his thoughts, opinions and desires, and the illumined, philosophical man, freed from these illusions (the ‘blackness’).” (p.21-22)

It is particularly interesting to notice that the truncated tree is also a decapitation/nigredo symbol (some alchemical emblems show a tree being “decapitated” by an man using an axe). After the “behading” of the tree, the king must put his opinions and desires aside and obey Babbitty for the Wizarding World’s, and his own, good. Of course this doesn’t make him an “illumined, philosophical man” – not then at least – but he is sure freed from his illusions. This image is very close to that of Babbitty the washerwoman who, as posted above, puts the king back on the right track and “cleanse” the future of the wizards living around. Now the king can start and truly learn.
Does it help?

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Solitaire - Jan 31, 2009 10:25 am (#2079 of 2155)
the decapitation represents the freeing of the soul from the prison of the body so that through detachment it can gain the ability to discriminate between the merely natural man, bound by his thoughts, opinions and desires, and the illumined, philosophical man, freed from these illusions

Interesting that the decapitation of Nagini cut the last tether of Voldemort's soul to earth ... and rendered him mortal. Yet it certainly didn't illuminate him in any way, did it?

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freshwater - Jan 31, 2009 12:59 pm (#2080 of 2155)
Interesting point, Solitaire. But, the beheading of Nagini did free the last orphaned bit of LV's soul....and he was soon after offered the chance to "try for some remorse" --which could have illumined him-- but he declined.


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Solitaire - Jan 31, 2009 4:11 pm (#2081 of 2155)
I guess I didn't phrase it right, freshwater. What I meant was that when the last tether of his soul was cut, he should have been freed from his old thoughts, opinions, and desires--freed to understand what he had become and to "try for some remorse"--but he didn't take advantage of that freedom, did he? He didn't die illuminated by any sense of remorse or repentance. He died deceived by his own selfish ideas.

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freshwater - Jan 31, 2009 6:00 pm (#2082 of 2155)
And once again, it's all about the choices you make, isn't it?

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Solitaire - Jan 31, 2009 6:20 pm (#2083 of 2155)
Yes, it is ... and I've seen some really foolish choices made recently by people in my world.

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Elanor - Feb 1, 2009 12:09 am (#2084 of 2155)
It sure did free poor Nagini though, didn't it? OK, she has to die for that, but she was at last freed from carrying Voldie's pestilential bit of soul. As DD said, there are things worse than death.

As for Voldemort's soul, I agree with Freshwater that he was offered a chance to be redeemed afterwards still and chose to ignore it.

In fact, I think the death of Nagini has more to do with Neville's journey in the Series than with Voldemort's. It is a beheading but as it is a snake, the symbol is slightly different. In alchemy, the snake is (mostly - it's a very complex symbol in fact) a Mercurial image: a river snakes, hence the connection with the water/mercury/cold/volatile principle. Thus, the death of the snake (often pierced with a spear or nailed) symbolizes the volatile being fixed, that is the completion of the Great Work.

It is Neville who "nails" Nagini with the sword, it is the completion of his own journey/Great Work that is IMO happening here, in a beautiful image.

The decapitation symbol is very present in the Series and often Jo uses it to suggest Nigredo and some "work" going on for a character. For example, in the HBP, Jo describes Dudley that way:

"His large, blond head rising out of the stripy collar of his pajamas looked oddly disembodied" (p.47).

Harry has not noticed in the HBP that some change was taking place in his cousin since he had met the Dementors but it is exactly what this dismemberment/decapitation reference tells us is happening.

That's why, at the beginning of the DH, Dudley finally "turned red" and "scarlet-faced" and Harry called him "Big D" (if you remember what we said about the letter D on this thread): all that to indicate that even Dudley has come to some sort of maturation.

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Solitaire - Feb 1, 2009 4:17 am (#2085 of 2155)
It is Neville who "nails" Nagini with the sword

Surely one of my favorite moments in the entire series, although not the only one to feature Neville!

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Elanor - Feb 8, 2009 1:35 am (#2086 of 2155)
It is one of mine too!

Here are some notes about the last tale:

The Tale of the Three Brothers

“There were once three brothers who were travelling along a lonely, winding road at twilight.”
So does the tale start, pointing out at once that this tale is a “journey” one, literally and symbolically. The fact it begins at twilight, when all gets dark, is also a journey symbol: all alchemical journey begins with the Black phase during which the matter “dies” only to be re-born in the Philosopher’s Stone.

Reaching a dangerous river, the brothers “made a bridge appear across the treacherous water. They were halfway across it when they found their path blocked by a hooded figure.
And Death spoke to them.”

A ‘bridge over troubled water’ all right, but definitely not one to ‘ease their mind’. (Sorry, couldn’t resist.).

When we think of the Tale of the Three Brothers, we think first of the Deathly Hallows but the most important symbol of the tale may not be found in Death’s presents, it may (IMO) be found in the symbol of the bridge.

As A.Stevens writes: “In many cultures, the bridge provides a connection between the known and the unknown, the perceived and the imperceptible (conscious and unconscious), between Earth and Heaven, between man and god, and is commonly identified with the rainbow [...]
The bridge thus marks the threshold beetween one psychologival state and another. Though dangerous, the bridge must be crossed: to turn back is a regression, a refusal to embark on the next stage of life (which, paradoxically, could be death).” (p.156)

Through the tale, it is of the life journey that Jo is talking. It is death that the brothers meet indeed on the bridge and the tale tells that there is no point in trying to trick death, it only brings pain and suffering. The only successful brother is the one who doesn’t want to be stronger than death and accepts to meet him again when he feels ready.

There is, IMO, an echo to be found between the last sentence of the tale: “And then he greeted Death as an old friend, and went with him gladly, and equals, they departed this life” and Dumbledore’s words to Harry in the cave when seeing the Inferi: “There is nothing to be feared from a body, Harry, any more than there is anything to be feared from the darkness. [...] It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more.” (HBP, p.566). In a way, the telling of the tale in the DH are words of comfort and strengthening for Harry as he is to go and meet death willingly too, as his ancestor did.

There is nothing to be feared, on the contrary, the bridge – and what one meets crossing it – means hope. Jo uses a very clever pun to stress this fact. As all entries about the bridge symbolism stress, there is a very close link between the bridge and the pontiff : “In Latin, ‘pontifex’ means ‘builder of bridges’. The Pope as Pontiff is the bridge between humanity and the Lord of Creation” (A.Stevens, same entry). And who is Dumbledore quoting in his notes about the tale? Alexander Pope! The name of the poet is expressly given by Jo in a footnote: “This quotation demonstrates that Albus Dumbledore [...] was familiar with the writings of Muggle poet Alexander Pope” (p.96).
And what a quote it is:

“Hope springs eternal”

Through the journey represented by the bridge lies hope. This hope is the Wizarding World’s best hope through Harry, but each and everyone’s hope through one’s own journey really. It is not by chance that this quote comes from Alexander Pope’s “Essay on Man”. There is something universal to that tale, to the Series really.

The bridge symbol also stresses one of the main themes of the Series, that of choices. Indeed:
“The bridge puts man on a narrow path on which he inevitably meets the obligation to choose. And his choice damns or saves him.” (Dictionnaire des Symboles, Chevalier/Gheerbrant, p.778). It all comes back to choices. The three brothers’, Dumbledore’s, Lily’s, the ‘lost boys’’, ours.

Alexander Pope was called “The Bard of Twickenham”, Jo is “Beedle the Bard”, to each their ‘essay on man’, to both weavers of words humor, humanism and optimism.

“Il suffit de passer le pont/ C’est tout de suite l’aventure” was once singing Georges Brassens (All you have to do is to cross the bridge/ Adventure begins at once). That flightly temptress...

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Phoenixfeather - Feb 12, 2009 12:01 am (#2087 of 2155)
This is absolutely beautiful, Eleanor!

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Potteraholic - Feb 12, 2009 7:47 am (#2088 of 2155)
Welcome back, Phoenixfeather! I remember when you posted on Five Words! It would be great to see you back there, too!

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Elanor - Feb 15, 2009 9:22 am (#2089 of 2155)
Thanks Phoenixfeather! It's great to see you back indeed!

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Elanor - Mar 2, 2009 1:47 pm (#2090 of 2155)
This thread has been very quiet again lately. What about a bit of detective work?

I was wondering about the drawing of the Peverell grave that is at the end of the Tale of the Three Brothers (p.93, UK). Drawn on the tombstone is the half erased Ignotus Peverell name, then, under it, the Deathly Hallows symbol (with a coffin on the left and crossed bones on the right) and then more words underneath.

I was wondering if the first line of the inscription could be "TEMPUS FUGIT". It starts with a T, then something that might be an 'E', next letter is hidden, then something that could be a 'P' (or a 'B'?) and 'US' in the end. Next word seems to begin with an 'F' (or an 'E'?) and the rest is hidden.

There is another word underneath that seems to end with "ANE", any ideas what it could be?

Tempus Fugit (Time Flees) is a Latin phrase often found on graves so it could fit, the more because it could underline the idea that there is no escape from death. I have no idea what the word underneath could be though.

The symbols on the grave are interesting too: the DH symbol signifies the fundamental unity and it is paired here with symbols of death in a summary of the alchemical journey (unity found through the death of the Nigredo). And these symbols are to be found on a stone! A tombstone, sure, but a stone still in a possible nod towards the Stone, symbol of the accomplished journey.

The coffin is also a 'casket', word that can also apply to a box in which one puts jewels (that is the "gold" found after the death of Nigredo symbolically).

Death (the skull) on top of the tombstone has wings like an angel which can be a symbol for sublimation, the process taking place after the death at the Nigredo which leads to the re-birth in the final creation of the Stone.

Just a few ideas!

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Nicholas Schouten - Mar 22, 2009 1:58 pm (#2091 of 2155)
Good questions Elanor! I'll be thinking of them this week and will post soon!

Waving to all!
-Nick

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Elanor - May 1, 2009 8:07 am (#2092 of 2155)
Looking forward to reading your thoughts about it Nick! (BTW, I suppose the "week" you mention is the (very flexible) alchemical time, right? **Strengtening Charms sent your way as I'm sure you must be snowed under work**)

We have often talked about the importance of "mercy" on this thread and opposed "merciless" Voldemort to Dumbledore's mercy, especially when he tells Draco in the HBP: “It is my mercy, not yours, that matters now” (p.553). I was re-reading the HBP and realized that in that scene it is in fact someone else's mercy that matters: Snape's.

I was thinking of the French word for mercy, "misericorde", when I remembered that a "misericorde" was also an object in the Middle-Ages. It was in fact the name given to two things:

* A thin dagger used to deliver the "stroke of mercy" to knights who had received mortal wounds and could not be moved from the battlefield. This is exactly what Snape does in this scene to Dumbledore’s request “to help an old man avoid pain and humiliation” (DH, p.548). It also fits perfectly well the "cooking" associated with weapons in alchemy as Snape's AK seals the sublimation process of the White Book.

* A ‘misericord(e)’ is also a kind of small seat, a ledge really, which was hidden on the underside of a seat of a church’s stall. If the seat of the stall was down, it could not be seen but once turned up, the "misericorde" could give support to the person standing and leaning on it. Just like a "misericorde", Snape is a hidden tool on which Dumbledore can rest.

Just thought I'd share.

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Solitaire - May 1, 2009 9:41 am (#2093 of 2155)
Is that where we get the term mercy seat?

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Nicholas Schouten - May 1, 2009 9:58 am (#2094 of 2155)
Great comment Elanor!
-Nick
PS: I must have forgotten to correctly set my watch/calendar! Ah wells, another thing to do... hehehe!

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Orion - May 2, 2009 3:29 pm (#2095 of 2155)
The Mercy Seat... a wonderful, compelling piece of music by Nick Cave And The Bad Seeds. Sorry for the interruption of the discussion! The song certainly has the same topic.

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Elanor - May 2, 2009 10:57 pm (#2096 of 2155)
Orion, you made me search youtube at 7 a.m. this Sunday morning (and the song certainly finished waking me up).

According to wiki, there is a link between a misericord and the term mercy seat. As it was used here, I think it was more along the lines of "Pity my poor old bones and give me something to seat on during that neverending service" though.

LOL on your calendar Nick! Wouldn't you love one of those diaries like the ones Hermione gave Ron and Harry?

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Julia H. - May 3, 2009 2:32 am (#2097 of 2155)
“It is my mercy, not yours, that matters now” (p.553). I was re-reading the HBP and realized that in that scene it is in fact someone else's mercy that matters: Snape's. (Elanor)

I really like your observations in general. To the above, I would like to add that Snape, mercy and Dumbledore are connected in two ways. It was Dumbledore who had mercy on Snape in the worst moments of his life and Snape is now repaying this mercy by the mercy killing. In this sense, Dumbledore's mercy does matter in the tower scene.

The first "post-Prophecy" scene between them starts with a white jet of light that disarms Snape. At the same time, Snape says "Don't kill me!". The last scene between them is the reverse: Dumbledore is disarmed, Snape has a wand and Dumbledore basically tells him, "Severus, please, kill me." (And of course, there is a green jet of light.) In both cases, one of them has mercy on the other one.

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me and my shadow 813 - May 7, 2009 4:19 pm (#2098 of 2155)
I thought I'd respond to Elanor's post on the Founders thread over here.

Throughout history we are given the image of the woman with the hair of fire. Of course, Magdelene is the "quintessential" figure for this archetype but I am sure there are others in Greco-Roman and even Egyptian mythology. It is interesting because the fire element is intrinsically masculine, however we are shown via the coupling or perhaps "marriage" in various stories that it is the woman holding the sacred fire. This might be due to the "wounded male" figure needing his feminine nature to hold the fire/life-giving essence while he heals (think Isis/Osiris). This is one of the major reasons why I see Lily being "meant" to be with Severus, because she is a very strong, fire-energy character (as is Ginny) and the men they end up with are also strong fire. I wonder about JKR's intention with giving us basically the equivalent of two positively-charged individuals entering a marriage rather than positive/negative.

Any thoughts?

PS - As stated on another thread, although I do not lean toward chemistry-terms of the alchemical process, I am well familiar with it as metaphor and would appreciate hosts/moderators allowing the opportunity to discuss this subject outside of technical terminology.

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Elanor - May 8, 2009 9:09 am (#2099 of 2155)
Julia, your post reminded me of something we have discussed on this thread in the past, that is the meaning of the scene in which Snape asks for DD’s mercy and the link with one of Flamel’s illustrations (see here post #1979). “Remove blackness from me”, “Blot out all the evil which I have done” are the words which go with that illustration and which fit Snape’s road to redemption from that point forth.

On the astronomy tower, the situation is reversed. After all these years, Dumbledore still feels guilty about his sister’s death (which he has just re-lived in the cave). If we see Dumbledore’s blackened hand as an image of his guilt and mistakes (hand blackened by the hope the Resurrection Stone would bring back his parents and sister for him to apologize) then maybe in turn can we see Dumbledore’s plea also as a “blot out all the evil which I have done” plea. When Harry meets Dumbledore again at King’s Cross: “his hands were both whole and white and undamaged” (DH, p.566), he has reached the end of his own road to redemption.

MAMS, I do agree with yours comments on fire-Lily and Ginny being paired with fire-James and Harry. It is very curious and the more I think about it the more it makes James and Ginny’s roles in the ‘quest’ look minor. IMO, it stresses the fact that the relationship that shapes the quest is not Lily and James’, it is Lily and Severus’ (fire and water).

In the same way, most of the characters important for the quest with whom Harry interacts have a Mercury/water connection: the pair he forms with Hermione (the hermetic guide, H.G. for Hg mercury etc), with Luna (the white queen), with Dumbledore the White (and his half-moon spectacles etc), his constant opposition to Snape, Draco, Voldemort – all Mercury connected also – are the meaningful ones.

I see Ron's role in the quest as different and very special: it is that of the Salt principle which completes the Sulphur/Mercury/Salt triad.

As for Ginny, she has a small ‘cooking’ role in the HBP and her part becomes trivial in the DH. She has no real role in the quest anymore except that of a blazing trophy for the successful hero (IMO, please don’t send me dungbombs for writing this!).

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me and my shadow 813 - May 9, 2009 8:09 am (#2100 of 2155)
Yes, we can conclude that Harry’s interactions with the Slytherins are far more important, as far as his movement forward. I like what you said about Dumbledore’s guilt. He also seems to represent a “higher level” of Harry himself, as a trailblazer of sorts, setting the path ahead which Harry then goes alone and eventually leads. To me this is most apparent in the Cave when DD enters saying he is the protector (‘You are with me’), and as they walk along the lake Harry nearly “walks into” DD, and then actually does “walk into” him. By the end of the scene, Harry is protecting/taking care of DD (‘I am with you’). But the true catalysts seem to be of the water element.

Ron, in my own words regarding this process, represents the Base, which makes sense would be salt. He runs on simple equations, his gut and his “base” desires (always hungry, grumpy when he is not fed, etc.) in other words, the “creature comforts” are most important to him and when these are satisfied he is content. I also find it interesting that he is deathly afraid of spiders, the symbol of Dark Matriarchal energy (black widow, weaving, man-eater, etc.) so he is on the opposite side of this spectrum, a pure male with no cunning, agenda, or shrewd manipulative tendencies. Hermione, the Mind/Mercury, is quite adept at being manipulative and so, while she isn’t a black widow she displays the intellect and the intricacy of thought capable of great, tangled webs of deceit. Of course the two are repelled by each other at first… her personality and behaviour prior to the Troll incident in PS is indicative to me of such a “dark” female in the making. In this process I am astounded at how both “sides” purify the other using their potential ability to damage. Does that make sense? I will think of how to articulate this for another post.

As for Ginny, I agree with your comments.

edit: the least familiar to me is the concept of Mercury regarding things other than the mind/mental/non-feeling symbol. I wonder if those who are both Mercury and water (either female or Slytherin) are a constant in HP? In other words, the corrupted water/feeling element, i.e., Draco, Severus and Riddle. DD seems the exception to this rule but perhaps because he is the "pathfinder" and in a category of his own...

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me and my shadow 813 - May 9, 2009 9:34 am (#2101 of 2155)
Too late to edit -- another example of how the red haired female might represent some feminine element to be purified in the process.

The alchemical process could be considered a mutation for the better... I recently watched X-Men 3 and was very interested in the powerful female mutant with her Flaming Red hair. In the beginning of the trilogy, this mutant (Jean: a play on the word gene which is of course where the mutation occurs) has brown hair and is holding back her powers at the counsel of her mentor (the DD figure). When she utilizes her powers to their fullest extent in the climax of the trilogy, she dies by self-sacrificial drowning to save the others (drowning=overwhelmed by feminine, similar to Lily's sacrifice at the hand of a Slytherin). She comes out of the water at the start of the third film and has flaming red hair; her powers are now turned to the Dark/destructive side of the feminine. She intentionally kills her Fire element boyfriend (his eyes are lasers) -- now that she is of the fire element, they as fire/fire come together, clash and explode. She is then used by the estranged partner of the mentor (who controls metal, the Vold figure who is named Magneto=magnetic=feminine in a male body) to destroy the humans (Muggles). In the end, this harmful mutant "Jean" must be destroyed, and she is killed by her opposite, the Wolverine/Base/Male figure, like a knight slaying the dragon.

I bring this up because the similarities are so strongly connected to our recent discussion. In our series, we see Harry bringing the Fire Female into balance via being his mother's son and via (hopefully) softening Ginny's flame. The idea of red hair on a woman seems to describe a forceful nature and of course can be a good thing. However, when gone unbalanced I only can see it as something incomplete. I wonder how this process would unfold if a red-haired girl had been the Chosen One.

I am also reminded of the film The Fifth Element, where the Supreme Being is a red-haired female representing the missing feminine energy needed to sit at the center of the four elements. However, the best part of the story for me is that she was incapable of completing her mission without her partner, who kissed her and that surge of love is what made the alchemical process complete. Have you seen this film?

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Elanor - May 10, 2009 1:24 am (#2102 of 2155)
Very interesting posts MAMS!

I have not seen X-Men 3 but I did see The Fith Element (several times actually) and I found it to be a rather good movie. The way I see it, Leeloo (the red-haired woman) is the Fifth Element, that is Quintessence (if I remember well, the "she is perfect" line comes as a leitmotiv in the movie). Being Quintessence/the fifth element, she is at the same time the four elements and above them - hence why she is a woman (feminine water/earth) with fire-like hair (who does not fear to dive, almostt flying-like, into the void at the beginning of the movie - the air element).

The Fith element/Quintessence is the very essence of the Stone which: "cannot be created until the alchemist has first united the four contrary elements - earth, air, fire and water - into an integrated, harmonious whole", in other words Quintessence is " a reduction of [the elements] to one pure substance". Isaac Newton was saying that "Quintessence is a thing that is spiritual, penetrating, tinging and incorruptible, which emerges anew from the four elements when they are bound to each other" (all quotes from L.Abraham, p.75).

The process is made very "graphic" in the Fifth Element movie: Leeloo is placed at the center of a square made by the four elements and unites their power into 'one pure substance' beam that annihilates evil. As you said, what triggers the process is Love, which makes a great parallel with the HP universe.

In HP, the process is more subtle but very similar: Harry has to become the symbolic quintessence (I love we see him reading "Quintessence: A Quest" in the HBP) and it is Love that gives him the strength to complete the last part of his journey.

Maybe in the end is his marriage to Ginny not a fire-fire one but really a Quintessence-fire one? It is interesting incidentally that, among their children, there is another red-haired girl named Lily and a boy who seems very Mercury related with his Albus Severus name and green eyes (and who IMO seems a very promising character would Jo ever want to write a sequel...).

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me and my shadow 813 - May 10, 2009 6:23 pm (#2103 of 2155)
Elanor, I have thought the same thing about Harry and Ginny although I see it purely in the case of Harry only. He completed the journey, so he is the "Rubedo" as you would say. Ginny, IMO, did not complete any such journey that I can see other than experiencing possession by Vold, which probably gave her certain insights and growth but not in the way of the Quest.

Regarding Albus Severus, I completely agree and actually wrote a FanFic story about him mastering fire and water.

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Julia H. - May 11, 2009 3:24 am (#2104 of 2155)
Ginny is definitely a "prize". It is repeatedly made clear that Harry cannot live a normal life (at least nor for a long time) until he conquers Voldemort, and Ginny (like everything associated with her) is a part of this normal life.

It makes me think of Robinson Crusoe, where women are completely absent because the task of struggling and building and creating the conditions of a normal life is the man's job and duty before any woman could come in. Harry, of course, has a female assistant (maybe more than one) but she is not the woman for him. Ginny as a prize also fits the fairy tale aspects of the story, especially that at one point Harry actually frees her from the captivity of the evil one. (But that may be off-thread.)

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me and my shadow 813 - May 11, 2009 8:35 am (#2105 of 2155)
Julia, for me fairy tales are extremely alchemical symbolically and were used in the past to tell the story of the journey without being out there on a soap box. So, children's tales like Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Sleeping Beauty, and even our latest classic Little Mermaid are all embedded with the achemical changes that one goes through with a "partner". For me it is much more interesting to read a story where the Quester is changed by and through a romantic interest, but JKR chose to have Harry have more of a "Frodo" experience. My point is that I feel Harry's saving Ginny in CoS was absolutely similar to the symbolism of the "knight saving the princess". But her own "awakening" ends there for the most part, IMO. And as we all agree, Ginny is not part of Harry's true process.

It is interesting that in the Little Mermaid we again have a red-haired girl. This might hold the answer to my question a few posts ago about how the story of a red-haired girl Quester would unfold. **enter evil octopus** (the underworld equivalent of the above-ground 8-legged spider dark feminine)...

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Orion - May 11, 2009 9:19 am (#2106 of 2155)
Regarding the Fifth Element: That was a wonderful, wonderful movie, except near the ending when they had to reduce the Strong Woman Character again, like in countless Hollywood movies after the war (Gilda, for example), to a whimpering Woman In Distress who Needed Help. Gone with the wind, "Me fifth element - supreme being. Me protect you." In the end Hero Bruce Willis must put the pieces of Heroine Milla Jovovitch (gone to pieces) together again so he can be the Supreme one once again. Sorry, this is OT, but it's been eating away at a tiny little piece of my soul ever since I saw this movie. Just ignore this posting, please.

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me and my shadow 813 - May 11, 2009 10:53 am (#2107 of 2155)
Orion, I think it is a very good post. I hope I can alleviate your frustration. The way I interpreted the final scene was that Leelu was the missing Mother energy on the male-run planet. This was apparent to me when she was watching the war footage on television (symbolizing the male/aggression having taken over the planet). But the Mother needs to be accepted by the male, not simply forcing her way back into the scene, because many times this simply has backfired historically (think of peasant/country earth-dwellers, pagans, goddess-worshipper and witches being persecuted by the Establishment in history). So, to me, Leelu was in danger of that happening yet again. It is an important line that she says “I haven’t been loved.” The Mother has been chronically rejected. Bruce Willis was the man who loved her and so who could change that. Also, their kiss was the symbol of the male and female merging at the center. I think it is important that it cannot be done by only men, as it has been going on the planet for most of history, but it also cannot be done by only feminine. Yet another example would be the very famous explanation in the DaVinci Code with the cup V and the sword ^ creating the balance and the star symbol. But furthering this topic needs to be treaded upon lightly on this forum

To bring it all back home, Hermione and Ron are, to me, the *external* and "romantic" representation of what is going on in Harry internally.

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Elanor - May 11, 2009 11:38 am (#2108 of 2155)
Very insightful posts everybody! It's great to see this thread alive again!

About Ginny, I do agree with all that you wrote: she has no real role in Harry's quest. However, I was thinking of a great post Nick wrote when we were re-reading the HBP in which he was analyzing Ginny's role in Ron's journey and describing her as Ron's anima and an 'exteriorization of the shadow aspects of Ron’s persona', which is IMO spot on. Here is a part of his post (for the full post: post #1133):

"IMO, especially in this book, Ginny (Ginevra, also known through phonetic cabbala as “vinegar” [a light acid]) is Ron’s vitriol, she is the acid that eats at him, the fire that tries his soul.

But she is also I believe an exteriorized version of Ron’s anima, i.e., the female component of Ron’s subconscious. In some respects she is also an exteriorization of the shadow aspects of Ron’s persona; she does those things that Ron represses in his own life: dating and snogging for example. Ron and Ginny’s reconciliation will be the indication that a very important part of Ron has achieved the internal balance/harmony that will allow Ron to fulfill his part in this Wizarding War and in the alchemical balancing needed to win.

Until then, when Vinegar (Ginny) is mixed with Salt/ashes (Ron), the ashes dissolve and that is what Ron ends up doing after being confronted by Ginny when Ron finds Ginny snogging behind a curtain. Ginny brings to the forefront of Ron’s consciousness his own lurking “suspicions” of inadequacy, of not being “up to par”: Ginny scores the most points against Ron, Ginny tells Ron how “everyone else” has already snogged, and calls him slow in the area of male-female relationships. And Ron dissolves temporarily. (BTW, we also see how Ron is not ready for the Rubredo process at all: the missing words as to what others might be calling his sister would, most likely IMO, be “scarlet woman”; and Ron wants nothing to do with that!) "
*****
As for the 5th Element, after posting about it yesterday I went to youtube to find a video of my favorite part of the movie, the "Diva dance", when Leeloo fights the ugly bag guys while the Diva is singing. I was thinking of the importance of music in that scene: music, harmony go with Quintessence and at this point both Leeloo and the Diva represent quintessence with the Diva bearing the 4 elements stones in herself and her pure song accompanying every move Leeloo is making. They are an image of harmony here.

In HP, it is Dumbledore who embodies quintessence best, he who "enjoys chamber music" and thinks music is "a magic beyond all we do here" (PS/SS p.95, during the start of term feast). Rubedo Fawkes' song is made of the same quintessential balm.

An echo of it is to be found in the very last scene of the DH (before the epilogue) during which Harry repairs the Phoenix wand: "As his wand resealed, red sparks flew out of its end. Harry knew that he had succeeded. He picked up the holly and phoenix wand, and felt a sudden warmth in his fingers, as though wand and hand were rejoicing at their reunion." (DH, p.599). The sentence "Harry knew he had succeeded" can be read on two levels: he has succeeded in repairing the wand sure, but also the whole quest. The 'phoenix spark' as the same symbolic value as Fawkes' song: the Stone, ruby, honey, balm, harmony, Quintessence, all have the same meaning and tell that the Work of Potter, the Work of the Phoenix, is achieved.

MAMS: "This might hold the answer to my question a few posts ago about how the story of a red-haired girl Quester would unfold. **enter evil octopus** (the underworld equivalent of the above-ground 8-legged spider dark feminine)... "
Yeah.. I have always thought the Giant Squid was underused in the story. He might just be waiting for the next generation to arrive and start a new quest.

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Julia H. - May 11, 2009 1:20 pm (#2109 of 2155)
music, harmony go with Quintessence ... In HP, it is Dumbledore who embodies quintessence best, he who "enjoys chamber music" and thinks music is "a magic beyond all we do here" (PS/SS p.95, during the start of term feast). Rubedo Fawkes' song is made of the same quintessential balm. (Elanor)

And now I must ask this: What about the spell (the only one) that sounded almost like a song? The one Snape used to heal Draco after the Sectumsempra?

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Orion - May 11, 2009 2:37 pm (#2110 of 2155)
If WB ask me, I'll have a tune and some latin words for it in a tick.

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Julia H. - May 11, 2009 2:39 pm (#2111 of 2155)
What if I ask you? Because I'm curious!!!

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Orion - May 11, 2009 2:53 pm (#2112 of 2155)
Give me a few days. Can you read music? Then I'll post a link to a pdf.

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Julia H. - May 11, 2009 10:52 pm (#2113 of 2155)
Yes, Orion, do that, please. I trust that I will manage to read it.

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Dryleaves - May 12, 2009 12:25 am (#2114 of 2155)
Me to, please, Orion! I haven't touched a musical instrument since I was thirteen, but I'll try to manage somehow...


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Elanor - May 12, 2009 11:58 am (#2115 of 2155)
That sounds great Orion! It's been too long since I last played the guitar, it will be the perfect opportunity for taking it out of its case again.

Julia: "What about the spell (the only one) that sounded almost like a song? The one Snape used to heal Draco after the Sectumsempra? "
When I read that scene in the HBP, I thought it was maybe the greatest hint showing that Snape was on the side of light. It was enhanced by the fact that Snape was then also telling Draco that he needed to take some Dittany at once (a plant Harry is also seen looking up in his Magical Herbs book in PS/SS). Dittany is native to Crete where its name means "love". So, we have the harmony charm (which is described sort of "knitting" Draco's wound: an Ariadne's thread symbol) paired with the idea of love and associated with a man who has vowed to protect the two boys who are with him at the time.

To me, it means that the spell echoes far further than that scene on Harry's journey. In a way, Snape's task sort of mirrors this scene: it is to try and repair the 'wounds' he is responsible for (and blames himself for); it is a quintessential one and love is the hidden power that motivates him (which is implied by the symbols connected to the bathroom scene). Saving the boys is also saving himself and the song-like spell also tells us of redemption and peace. (IMO)

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Julia H. - May 12, 2009 1:38 pm (#2116 of 2155)
Thanks, Elanor! I, too, have thought that scene is more important than it seems at first sight, at least with regard to Snape's development, and that the song-like spell as well as the healing of the wounds may be symbolic - especially that the wounds are both caused and healed by Snape's own spells. But, of course, I could not attach the alchemy symbols to the scene. (I would never have made the connection between Dittany and love. Thanks!) Your explanation is really great.

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me and my shadow 813 - May 12, 2009 8:29 pm (#2117 of 2155)
Thanks, Elanor, for Nick's post reference. That hits home for me -- spot on! It's interesting because Ginny is an aggressive nature to Ron's passive nature. Hermione of course fills this role but Ginny's is to fill it as "within" Ron rather than "without" him. While Ron does have his "breaking point", he is predominantly (as I refer to him) the Hufflepuff of the Trio manifesting other Houses (Hermione=Ravenclaw and Harry=Slytherin). Ginny really seems to have a role in HBP as Ron's "alter ego"... Anima fits perfectly, particularly as we're referring to snogging, the kids' book equivalent to stepping into the true partnership/twinning role.

I will go back and read Nick's full post soon, but I really love what you quoted!

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Elanor - Jun 28, 2009 1:15 am (#2118 of 2155)
The school year is almost over for me (one more week only, woohoo!) and I was wondering if anyone would be interested in continuing an alchemical re-read of the DH during the summer. What do you think everybody?

(Glad you liked the link btw MAMS!)

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Julia H. - Jun 28, 2009 3:28 am (#2119 of 2155)
***Raising hand*** I would.

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Elanor - Jul 10, 2009 1:09 pm (#2120 of 2155)
That sounds good!
I'm currently re-reading the DH and taking notes, I'll start posting as soon as I have finished (and found out again where we stopped in the re-read of the DH on this thread).

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Nicholas Schouten - Jul 24, 2009 7:43 am (#2121 of 2155)
I'm all for it! I'm going to start reading and taking notes soon too.
Nick

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Elanor - Aug 2, 2009 10:41 pm (#2122 of 2155)
**waves to Nick** Good to see you back posting!

I am just back from California (and still dealing with jetlag, lol!). I will start posting soon about the DH. In the meantime, I was thinking of the HBP movie and of the symbolism of the unicorn tapestry set at the entrance of the RoR (which has been mentioned on the HBP movie thread). For the first time in a long time the film makers have IMO had something right.

I really didn't like Harry and Ginny holding hands in front of the tapestry (reminding one of the alchemical King/Queen symbolism) because, beautiful image as it is, it is NOT the role Jo gave Ginny in the Series. The feminine principle is represented in the series by Hermione and Luna and also by Dumbledore the White Wizard and the Slytherins (Snape and Draco, and Voldemort, mostly). It is also Harry's own feminine side, his Slytherin connection, that matters most until he reaches inner conjunction at King's Cross in the DH. This role is never Ginny's in the series however thus the Harry/Ginny in front of the tapestry image is IMO completely off the mark.

As I wrote on the movie thread, on the other hand, having Draco standing in front of that tapestry was IMO spot on. He is manipulated by Voldemort, sentenced to death as much as Dumbledore is, and the core of his wand is unicorn hair (the wand that will become Harry's, who thus shares the unicorn symbolism).

The connection is even deeper than that since the unicorn symbolism represents the alchemical stage presented in the HBP. The 6th book of the series is connected to the 6th of the 7 operations of alchemical transformation shown on the famous Azoth of the Philosophers emblem (by Basil Valentine). On that emblem, this 6th operation, distillation (the key to understanding the HBP symbolism), is represented by a unicorn lying in front of a rosebush.

Each stage has repercussions on the next one. The hawthorn (from the rose family of plants - reminding one of the rosebush of the emblem)/unicorn hair wand performs the key spell that will decide of the outcome of the quest. Incidentally, this spell is also Harry's "signature spell", Expelliarmus, linking Draco and Harry's fates even more closely. The tapestry then represents Draco's wand's symbolism in a beautiful and very vivid way.

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me and my shadow 813 - Aug 3, 2009 7:41 am (#2123 of 2155)
Hi Elanor! Hope you had fun in Cali!

I agree that the film adaptation with Harry and Ginny was not as JKR wrote the series and, thus, was a distortion of HER interpretation of the alchemical process (using Hermione and Luna predominantly). However, I do feel that JKR's interpretation was lacking truth (significantly) when she did not portray Harry's romantic love interest as the other half of the chemical marriage. To me the films finally took "movie contamination" to a superior level here! I understand this forum is dedicated to talking about JKR's work and not what she "should" have written, so JM2K that I think the director/production were spot on -- that this was the a major point in Harry's quest (or should have been) when Ginny took his hand, led to the "hidden room", hid the book for him (thus the only one now who touched the tiara and knows where it is) and kissed him for the first time!

Regarding his quest as a strictly internal/individual one, I can undoubtedly see how DD and even Hermione as part of the trio would symbolize certain aspects of Harry's self. But using Luna, and having Ginny sitting in the sidelines like a "war wife" waiting at home, bothered me. I never liked how she wrote (or more specifically, didn't write) Ginny into the quest. Instead, we got a young hot-headed girl who had a few lines before living happily ever after with our hero. Again, JM2K and I'm not trying to convince anyone, just explaining my view. Carry on!
edited

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me and my shadow 813 - Aug 3, 2009 8:22 am (#2124 of 2155)
Forgot to add: I love the use of that particular tapestry with Draco because the unicorn was alone and "fenced in". Poor Draco...

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Elanor - Aug 5, 2009 1:24 am (#2125 of 2155)
Hi MAMS! I had some great time there, thank you! I'm so missing it already.

You know, sometimes when I think of Jo and Ginny I wonder if she really likes Ginny. She said she does (but she also said someone would perform magic late in life, didn't she?). Harry is her "baby" and I wonder if her treatment of Ginny is not the literary equivalent of Molly's treatment of Fleur at first.

She has Ginny standing for the prize the hero gets at the end of the quest and no more. Ginny however is part of Harry's next "life cycle". She makes that point I think when writing the epilogue "19 years later": 19 is 1+9, that is 10, the ouroboros. So at King's Cross, we meet Harry at the end of another cycle in his life and when a new one starts with Albus Severus going to Hogwarts. This is most probably a key moment in Harry's life (and I think we can expect great things from Albus Severus...).

This might explain also why Jo has Harry say to Ginny "It's been like... like something out of someone else's life, these last weeks with you" (p.602) at the end of the HBP. It was indeed: that time with her belongs to his next "life cycle", not this one. JM2K too!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Solitaire - Aug 5, 2009 5:22 pm (#2126 of 2155)
Unfortunately for Ginny, Harry didn't really discover his love for her until his 6th year--and did not really make it known until the end of the year. By that time, he was already determined on his course of action for the coming year, and, unfortunately, Ginny really didn't figure into it, did she?

I agree that Ginny stands for some kind of golden prize. At Dumbledore's funeral, we see her giving Harry a "blazing look." Blazing ... like gold, perhaps? When she pulls him into her room on his birthday, just before she kisses him, he "found it difficult to look back at her; it was like gazing into a brilliant light." Blazing and brilliant. Ginny is like the golden girl at the end of Harry's quest. He can't have her until he completes that quest.

It's fitting, too, isn't it, that the defeat of Voldemort comes just as morning is breaking, and everything is blazing, dazzling gold. The idea of the blazing gold sunrise is repeated several times over those few pages. Harry has reached the "golden" end of his journey ... well, this journey, anyhow!

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PeskyPixie - Aug 16, 2009 8:01 pm (#2127 of 2155)
I'm still working my way through eighty posts on this thread, and I'm really too stupid to contribute here. Still, I have just read a post which states that Slytherin (water) is a feminine element (or whatever the proper term is). I find it neat that although the head of Slytherin House (i.e. Snape) is a man, his patronus is female and his writing is described by Hermione as being rather feminine.

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Solitaire - Aug 16, 2009 10:49 pm (#2128 of 2155)
Pesky, when it comes to this thread, no one could be a dimmer bulb than I ... which you have no doubt learned if you've gone back to the very beginning of Part I of the thread. I still like posting my feeble ideas now and then, however.

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Elanor - Aug 19, 2009 12:30 pm (#2129 of 2155)
IMO everybody's insights are valuable! This is the greatest strength of this forum: we all come from different parts of the world, with different backgrounds and experiences and that makes for incredibly rich discussions, all that in a friendly and respectful atmosphere. As Sirius used to say "the more the merrier!", and we could add "the more the brighter!"

The feminine/water/Slytherin connection is really neat indeed. It is also enhanced by the Tarot connection with the 4 suits of the Tarot deck of cards matching the 4 houses, with the Cups suit (emotions) in connection with the Slytherin house. This makes the Potions Master the symbolic "king of Cups" (a master in the art of mastering his own emotions indeed and a true master of "cups"/potions). There would be more to say about this connection but we're not allowed to discuss the symbolism in details on this thread.

About Ginny the "blazing prize", I have found a sentence in the DH that summarizes well that role of hers I think. When Harry is in Ginny's bedroom at the Burrow and looks through her window, he sees the "pearly-white marquee" ouside and: "The golden flag on top was level with Ginny's window." (p.98).

At the end of the HBP, Harry has reached the Series' Albedo, the completed White Process (symbolized by all things white such as marble, pearls) and he is starting the Rubedo (reddening) process (to reach the symbolic red Stone/philosophical Gold). The pearly-white markee then represents where Harry currently stands on his journey while the golden flag is the book's goal. Once he reaches that goal, he gets Ginny too, whose window is level with it... I like the image.

BTW, I am not forgetting about the DH re-read, I have just been incredibly busy with a fascinating but very time-consuming work. I'll start posting as soon as it's over.

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Orion - Aug 19, 2009 1:49 pm (#2130 of 2155)
"There would be more to say about this connection but we're not allowed to discuss the symbolism in details on this thread."
Care to elaborate, Elanor?
One for luck:

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me and my shadow 813 - Aug 19, 2009 3:55 pm (#2131 of 2155)
LOL, Orion. Since Elanor says she is busy and we might not hear from her for days I will answer -- it's because the Tarot deck is not part of the alchemy (transformation of metals) metaphor, which is what this thread is about. They are all connected regarding the path of personal transformation, but Tarot-talk isn't supposed to be discussed here (see Original Post). Okay, that's my unsolicited comment.

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Gerald Costales - Aug 19, 2009 8:47 pm (#2132 of 2155)
Tarot talk may not be allowed but JKR does make some Tarot references in the book -

chapter 27 of HBP is The Lightning-Struck Tower.

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Orion - Aug 20, 2009 3:40 am (#2133 of 2155)
Okay, now I get it. Thanks for the explanation.

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PeskyPixie - Aug 22, 2009 6:55 pm (#2134 of 2155)
LOL, thanks Soli and Elanor.
I don't know what (if any) significance this possibly has, but Lord Voldemort's signature spell (the Avada Kedavra) produces a jet of green light (Slytherin colour) while Harry's trusty Expelliarmus creates red light (Gryffindor colour).

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Solitaire - Aug 23, 2009 12:48 am (#2135 of 2155)
Pesky, I've often wondered about the colors connected with the various spells. Surely those are significant ...

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Julia H. - Aug 23, 2009 1:56 am (#2136 of 2155)
I'm sure the spell colours as House colours are significant. (And who does Harry learn Expelliarmus from?) But I find it interesting that at the same time Harry has green eyes, while Voldy has red ones.

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Elanor - Aug 31, 2009 7:41 am (#2137 of 2155)
Finally, I find some time for posting!
MAMS, actually alchemists did use the tarot imagery to symbolize alchemical processes (the same way they used mythological images). We have often talked about the Hanged Man from an alchemical point of view on this thread for example. Here's from post #232 (when we were doing the reading of GoF and discussing Little and Great Hangleton, bot Hanged Man references):

"For the alchemists, the Hanged Man represented the desire to free oneself from a yoke, a weight, which symbolically meant for them to contain the volatile nature of Mercury. It was also the symbol of a process called "reincrudation", that is to say make the matter becoming raw, to move it back towards its origin and the principle. That fits rather well with young Tom Riddle, coming back to his origins to free himself from the weigh his father's family and what they did was for him."

The way alchemists used to use Tarot imagery is not talked about much but it is fascinating (and I think if we stick to that alchemical perspective of the tarot it's okay to mention it here). If you're interested by the link between tarot and alchemy, and if you can read French, I recommend this part of this great alchemy website: http:**//**herve.delboy.perso.sfr.fr/tarot_alchimie.html (just remove the stars), "le tarot alchimique". For a link between Tarot, Jung and alchemy, Irene Gad's book "Tarot and Individuation" makes a great reading.

About Harry and Voldemort's eyes, this is a great "pair of opposites" image. There is also the idea in alchemy that, in the end, the successful seeker will get the "smaragdine eyesight" (the "emerald eyesight"), a symbol for his achieved journey. Emerald was the color of the famous "tablet" on which the secret of the Great Work had been written, or so says the legend, by Hermes himself. The color green in alchemy can also have different meanings, depending on the context: from the green fruit of the tree of the philosophers that will ripen at the Rubedo, to the green symbol of resurrection and the "green lion" that becomes the "red lion" at the end of the Work, etc. All of these meanings are present in the Series IMO.

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Gerald Costales - Aug 31, 2009 10:55 pm (#2138 of 2155)
"The color green in alchemy can also have different meanings, depending on the context: from the green fruit of the tree of the philosophers that will ripen at the Rubedo, to the green symbol of resurrection and the "green lion" that becomes the "red lion" at the end of the Work, etc. All of these meanings are present in the Series IMO." Elanor
Here's an image of a red lion.

Coat of Arms for Scotland

Hogwarts is in Scotland. And Harry travels on the red Hogwarts Express to Hogwarts.

PS This post isn't a great insight into alchemy. But IMHO, JKR does layer the Series with images that can have multiple meanings.


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me and my shadow 813 - Sep 1, 2009 10:49 pm (#2139 of 2155)
The color green in alchemy can also have different meanings, depending on the context: from the green fruit of the tree of the philosophers that will ripen at the Rubedo, to the green symbol of resurrection and the "green lion" that becomes the "red lion" at the end of the Work, - Elanor

I will first say that I'm not really drawn to the metallic/chemistry portrayal of the alchemical metaphor, personally. However -- with that in mind -- I could not help but notice the metaphor of the above quote to literal FRUITION. I have about 20 green tomatoes on my window shelf right now turning red. How nice to see the metaphor movement in action!

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Elanor - Sep 6, 2009 12:00 am (#2140 of 2155)
I agree with you on the mulple meanings Gerald! LOL at your tomatoes MAMS: nothing like a successful Great Work, is it?

Well, I have finally a moment to start posting a few thoughts about the DH. We had stopped our re-read at the end of chapter 4 so here are some first remarks about chapter 5.

Chapter 5 – Fallen Warrior
We had left Harry crashing to the ground with Sirius’s motorcycle, following Hagrid who had done the same. The red mentor is not dead as Harry fears; he has merely shown him the way: Harry was “volatile” on the motorbike, and the “volatile” (mercury) must be “fixed” (the image of crashing) for the alchemical Great Work to be accomplished. In alchemical terms, what has just happened is a “solve et coagula” cycle, that is “dissolve” (volatilize) and “coagulate/congeal” (fix the matter). These cycles, already present in the previous processes, intensify during the rubification.

Harry wakes up “with a burning sensation in his ribs and right arm. His missing tooth had been regrown” (DH, p.58). The burning sensation is a sign of the alchemical “cooking” at work for him, an image enhanced by that of the regrown tooth: teeth (fangs etc) are a “cooking” symbol as often said on this thread.

Harry then meets Ted Tonks, who says he is “Dora’s father”. This is interesting when thinking of Tonks’ (and Lupin’s) own journey. She is now “Dora”, a name that evokes gold: “il/elle dora” means “he/she gilded/turned gold” in French. We are also soon to learn that she is pregnant, indeed that she is “multiplying”, a key part of the Rubedo process (already hinted at in the "7 Potters” chapters and that will be fully developed in the scene inside the Lestranges’ vault at Gringotts later on). She is reaching the end of her own journey both literally and symbolically. A successful one too, even if sadly short.

Harry finally sees with his own eyes that Hagrid is alive when: “knocking over two delicate tables and an aspidistra, he [Hagrid] covered the floor between them in two strides and pulled Harry into a hug that nearly cracked his newly repaired ribs.” (DH, p.59).

The aspidistra is a very curious plant and a treasure-trove of symbolism, just like Dumbledore commentating on Uncle Vernon’s flourishing agapanthuses was.

The aspidistra is also called “cast-iron plant”, which is a reference to Mars (iron is Mars’s metal), which means at the same time war but also the Reign of Mars, the reign of the red god, that is the Rubedo.

In the UK, the Aspidistra was also a very popular houseplant, it even gave its name to a novel by George Orwell, “Keep the Aspidistra Flying”. Hagrid sends the aspidistra not only flying but also crushing: this is another subtle fixing of the volatile image.

Aspidistra was also the name of a British transmitter during World War 2 used by British propaganda against the Nazi regime. This is another “war” reference and one that also hints at World War 2 (an underlying recurring reference in the DH) and of the Word War 2 resistance to the Nazi regime too, which seems to parallel the Order’s mission in their fight against Voldemort.
It is also another “fixed/volatile” reference: after all it was an “aerial”, wasn’t it?

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Elanor - Sep 20, 2009 6:37 am (#2141 of 2155)
More thoughts on Chapter 5 – Fallen Warrior
Hagrid and Harry then take a silver Portkey that sends them again in the air (and the Portkey was even an (h)airbrush!) and then crashing again, fixed together in the Weasleys’ yard, Harry falling “onto his hands and knees” and then seeing that Hagrid “had also collapsed on landing”.

It is therefore fitting that Hagrid then asks Molly: “ Haven’t go’ any brandy, have yeh, Molly?’ asked Hagrid a little shakily. ‘Fer medicinal purposes?”. Brandy is “eau-de-vie”, “water of life” in French and a Rubedo symbol. It is thus the perfect beverage for a Rubedo mentor that has lived yet another Solve et Coagula cycle.

They are the first to arrive to the Burrow but are soon joined by Lupin carrying an injured George. When Harry tells Lupin what has happened with Stan Shunpike and how using Expelliarmus has led Voldemort to him, Lupin says: “the Death Eaters seem to think it is your signature move”. In doing so, Lupin recalls the alchemical theory of the “signatures”.

The Doctrine of Signatures has it that “nature has put a mark or ‘signature’ on every natural object […] Every star, creature, plant, metal and stone was seen as a ‘hieroglyph’, a ‘letter’ or ‘character’ in the alphabet which constituted the book of nature, which was there for man to decode. According to Paracelsian theory the […] signature was an outward sign which, rightly interpreted, revealed the inner essence of the particular object.” (L.Abraham, p.57).

Expelliarmus is Harry’s ‘signature spell’ therefore it reveals his very essence: Harry does not want to kill, he tries to disarm. Interestingly enough, this spell was taught to him by Snape in CoS, by the Potions Master. There is an interesting link, IMO, between Potions, the distillation work, that was Snape’s specialty and spagyrics, the branch of alchemy particularly developed by Paracelsus that was alchemy applied to medicine, to which the Doctrine of Signatures was essential.

Spagyrics comes from two Greek words: spao (to tear apart) and ageiro (to gather together). “So the term spagyrics really means to tear part and bring back together again.” (Hauck, p.66), that is to separate the three principles (mercury, sulphur and salt) present in each thing, plants included, and recombine them to reach perfection, harmony. Indeed: “the spagyric operation, which begins by the destruction and breaking up of the plant, is not complete until all three basic parts of Sulfur, Mercury, and Salt are reunited in a higher or purer manifestation that is actually closer to the truest signature or inner “star” of the original plant.” (Hauck, p.70).

Expelliarmus is Harry’s “signature spell”. It is the one that “tears apart” who he is and brings him back together in a more achieved form so to speak. Using the word “signature” underlines the times Harry uses the spell as turning points in his journey. That was definitely the case in GoF when he used it in the graveyard. This is the case also in the “Seven Potters” scene as Lucius’s wand shattering (a result of the spell calling Voldemort to the scene) prods Voldemort to seek the Elder Wand. And it will definitely be the case during the last duel of the DH when the last “tearing apart” of the principles and “gathering together” (conjunction) happens. After this move, Harry is finally the One, One and whole. The Living Stone.

Expelliarmus obviously comes from the Latin "expellere" which means to drive out, but also to throw. This fits well the Spagyrics/doctrine of signatures too as it “drives out” the true nature of Harry as it would of plants in the laboratory. Snape teaching Harry the spell also once again marks him as essential in Harry’s maturation as the Stone.

In addition, the last duel corresponds to the Projection process of the Rubification. The “to throw” meaning of "expellere" thus makes the Expelliarmus Spell THE spell fitting that time and process.

Sorry for the delay in posting this! I'll try and post more often from now on.

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PeskyPixie - Oct 25, 2009 10:54 am (#2142 of 2155)
As you all know, I'm no alchemist. However, maybe the alchemists among us can find something in the following: The main colours of Gryffindor, Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff (red, blue and yellow, respectively) are primary colours. Slytherin House is the oddball in this aspect again (green).


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Elanor - Oct 26, 2009 2:39 am (#2143 of 2155)
Slytherin thus being the perfect house for that "oddball" that was Severus when he arrived at Hogwarts?

The main colors of alchemy are black, white (silver) and red (akin to gold), with yellow sometimes appearing between white and red. Blue was often considered similar to black in alchemy but green had a very specific meaning. It was the color indicating that the Stone-to-be was growing to maturity. Lyndy Abraham summarizes its symbolism very well:

"Green in alchemy indicates that the matter in the vessel is in a state of unripeness, immaturity or youth, just as in nature green fruit is unripe fruit." In time, the matter will ripen into gold.

She adds: "The alchemists' raw material or unclean matter is described as being 'green gold', the fertile matter from which gold may be grown." (p.91).

The symbol connects to Harry in many ways: his Slytherin connection (also inner feminine side) he denies for so long is a symbol of his emotional maturity. Only by acknowledging this connection can he reach full maturation. In another way, Snape can be seen as the "green gold" thanks to which "gold" (Harry) grows. It can be also a nice symbol for Snape's own journey.

The raw matter of the Stone was also sometimes called the "green lion" that has to mature into the "red lion", an image that fits well Harry also.

My Fall break has just started, I hope it will soon give me the opportunity to post more about the DH re-read.

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Elanor - Nov 29, 2009 1:20 am (#2144 of 2155)
Isn’t “soon” a very Slytherin word?
Some final thoughts on Chapter 5 – Fallen Warrior

* The idea of trust is emphasized both while Harry waits for the arrival of the other “Harrys” and when they all discuss how their plan has reached the Death Eaters. Indeed, Lupin and Kingsley recall Dumbledore’s last words: “Harry is the best hope we have. Trust him.” and Harry later tells his friends: “We’ve got to trust each other. I trust all of you.”

The theme of the three theological virtues (Charity/Love, Faith, Hope), so present since the first chapter introducing Charity Burbage, is thus underlined again, as it will be all book long, with the idea of the trust/faith Harry must have in his friends – and them in him – however challenging this will prove to be as Harry learns more about Dumbledore especially. Hope is also underlined here with Harry named the ‘Hope of the Wizarding World’ by Dumbledore.

* Little by little, the other Order members arrive to the Burrow, the absence of the last of them seeming "to lie upon them like a frost, its icy bite harder and harder to ignore" as they all wait. So, after the hairbrush (air/solve) that brought Harry to the Burrow, here comes the “frost”, that is congelation: as the cooking of the Stone intensifies, so do the Solve et Coagula cycles.

* They are all shaken by the news of Mad-Eye’s death and Bill then serves thirteen glasses of Firewhiskey around, raising his glass to Mad-Eye: “The Firewhisky seared Harry’s throat: it seemed to burn feeling back into him, dispelling the numbness and sense of unreality, firing him with something that was like courage.” (p.70, emphasis added)

The thirteen glasses symbolize at the same time death (13 is the number of the Death Tarot card of the Major Arcana) and life (the alcohol/Water of Life they contain). Thanks to the healing Water of Life, the cooking, expressed three times in a single sentence (as underlined in the quote), has resumed and another solve et coagula cycle begins.

* The idea of cooking is also present when Harry feels “a little hot again” after telling his friends he trusts them. It is also enhanced by the burning of Harry’s scar which grows as the scene at the Burrow unfolds and by the burning “in his throat” as he remembers all the loved ones he has lost. It culminates in the vision Harry has of Voldemort torturing Ollivander to understand why his wand has failed to attack Harry.

* Hermione begs Harry not to let Voldemort who is “taking over the Ministry and the Newspapers and half the Wizarding world” (p.75) ‘inside his head’ too – but it is sixteen years too late for that, isn’t it?


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Elanor - Jan 24, 2010 1:47 am (#2145 of 2155)
Here are a few thoughts about Aberforth (following a discussion on Dumbledore's thread).

The character of Aberforth forms a striking pair of opposites with his brother. His “essence”, so to speak, is a goat, the animal with which he is always connected. The goat is a symbol for the sulphur principle while Albus’s nature if Mercury-connected (he is the silver wizard wearing “half-moon” spectacles, etc). But in alchemical texts, the sulphur/mercury pair is often joined by the Salt principle, making it a triad. In the Dumbledores’ case, the third element that seems to create an alchemical ‘reaction’ is Grindelwald. It is Elphias Doge who reveals the nature of the triad in the DH.

Indeed, at the beginning of the DH, in the obituary of DD, Elphias Doge writes of the death of Dumbledore’s mother Kendra and then of that of Ariana and of the following “estrangement” between the brothers after Ariana’s death. At this time however Doge was abroad, journeying and telling Albus in his letters how he was going “from narrow escapes from Chimaeras in Greece to the experiments of the Egyptians alchemists” (DH, p.23). This is a funny nod to alchemy but also a way for JKR to introduce chimearas to the story.

A chimaera is “a rare Greek monster with a lion’s head, a goat’s body, and a dragon’s tail” (FB, p.7), and a triad sometimes used in alchemy to represent the three principles. The chimaera suggests which forces were really at work during Doge’s absence. Its three parts represent the Albus, Aberforth and Grindelward trio:
Grindelwald is later described having “golden hair [which] fell in curls to his shoulders” (DH, p.208) is the lion of the triad, Aberforth is represented by the goat and Albus, famous for his work on dragon’s blood, by the dragon. Much depends on the secrets these three detain and of the (alchemical) reaction that occurred when they were together, a reaction which in fact shapes the whole story.

A chimaera is also an illusion which “expresses the danger of imaginative overexcitement” (Chevalier, Gheerbrant, Dictionnaire des Symboles, p.246) which is a fitting symbol for what the young Dumbledore has just been through at the time. He too has had a narrow escape from a chimaera, that of the Deathly Hallows.

The “estrangement” between the Dumbledore brothers also underlines Ariana’s death as a turning point in their journey, recalling the symbolism of the alchemical “strange (i.e. foreign) fire”. Grindelwald, the foreigner, readily comes to mind to explain what ignited this fire (at King’s Cross Dumbledore says his ideas “enflamed” him, p.573). The ‘strange fire’ stands for “Mercury of the wise after the reunion of the body and spirit” (Pernéty, Dictionnaire Mytho-Hermétique, p.161). After the deadly conjunction of the Dumbledore brothers and Grindelwald that resulted in Ariana’s death, Albus is left as “mercury of the wise”, the White Wizard.

On another level, the “estrangement” also marks a separation, alchemically speaking, between the two brothers that only Harry, in completing the Great Work, will heal and seal for Aberforth, especially when he reveals to Aberforth that Albus has never been “free” after Ariana’s death and tells him of his remorse. After thinking of what Harry has just told him, about his choice to carry on, when fully knowing the risks: “Aberforth remained fixed in his chair” (DH, p.459); his own journey of anger towards his brother, and remorse at Ariana’s death, is over (the word "fixed" marks the end of the alchemical cycle).

He is now the one able to smuggle the trio into Hogwarts and reunite it with a fourth and crucial companion, Neville. His name is a hint towards that reunion. As said already long ago on this thread, ‘Aber’, in Welsh, means ‘confluence, river mouth’ while ‘forth’ is phonetically ‘fourth’. Therefore Aberforth means “confluence of the four(th)”. This name has many implications really as it can be seen as a reference to the day on which Ariana died (when the chimaera/three young men battled around Ariana), or as a reference to Aberforth allowing the trio to rejoin Neville and thus start the Battle of Hogwarts.

Aberforth is also the "fourth element" that saves the Harry/Ron/Hermione trio's neck several times in the DH. Indeed it can even be seen as a quintessence reference with all these events leading to Harry finally finding the ‘confluence of the four elements’ that is Quintessence, the end of his quest.

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Solitaire - Jan 24, 2010 2:50 pm (#2146 of 2155)
Very nice post, Audrey! I actually understand it this time!

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Choices - Jan 25, 2010 9:48 am (#2147 of 2155)
Brilliant as usual Audrey. I love your alchemical explanations. JKR has woven a very "tangled web" and you really have helped us sort it out and understand it better. :-)

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Elanor - Jan 27, 2010 8:45 am (#2148 of 2155)
Thanks! I love writing on this thread! It has become very quiet though lately so I wasn't sure if I should continue posting about the DH or wait more.

Is anybody interested in continuing the discussion about the DH? My winter break starts at the end of next week and I should be able to post more often then.

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Elanor - Apr 14, 2010 12:31 pm (#2149 of 2155)
It's been way too long since I last posted here!

I have found a detail yesterday that I thought might be interesting. It's about Petunia's name. I think I already posted here the nice play on words/phonetic cabala that was revealed in the DH about her nickname "Tuney" - that is "tu nies" phonetically in French: "you deny". This nickname betrays Petunia’s constant denial of the Wizarding World and of the attraction it exerted over her in her childhood. But there is more than that!

Petunia comes from "petun" (through old French, itself coming from a Guarani word) which means "tobacco", to which the petunia is related according to my Oxford Dictionary of English. So, by naming Petunia after that tobacco-related flower, JKR implies that a smoke screen surrounds Petunia’s carefully crafted life. As a child Harry is not allowed to peer through that smoke screen ("Don’t ask questions" is the house’s rule) but in the end, when "Tuney" enters the scene, the smoke screen vanishes.

The origin of the name Petunia is also another link between the sisters: the tobacco, through the smoke it evokes, is as volatile as what the moon-connected Lily implies as quality.

There is also a direct link to war in Petunia's name: tobacco is a plant connected to Mars in the alchemical charts of correspondances. Even if she took Harry "grudgingly, furiously, unwillingly, bitterly" to quote Dumbledore, "she knows that allowing you houseroom may well have kept you alive for the past fifteen years." (OotP, p.737). Bitterly, unwillingly, she also had a part in this war.

As for how pleasant and healthy it was for Harry to live with her, the tobacco link fits quite well too, doesn't it? (Why does the word "acrid" come to my mind thinking of her suddenly?)

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Choices - Apr 15, 2010 9:14 am (#2150 of 2155)
Elanor - As usual you have given us some fascinating information and helped us to see/understand Petunia better. Your brilliant observations always bring home to me how extensive JKR researched and thought out her characters - right down to their names. Thank you for taking the time to share these ever so interesting tid-bits of information with us. :-)

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Elanor - Apr 16, 2010 11:46 am (#2151 of 2155)
Thank you so much Choices! (((((((hugs)))))))
I can't believe it's been so long since the last time I posted on this thread. I hope the baby Blast-Ended Skrewts my students will allow me to post more often this spring. I miss it!

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Hieronymus Graubart - Apr 16, 2010 12:20 pm (#2152 of 2155)
Go on, Elanor. I'm not able to post here, but I like to get new insights.

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Elanor - May 29, 2010 11:27 pm (#2153 of 2155)
Thanks! At last I find a bit of time for posting!

I was re-reading PS/SS when it struck me how clever JKR had been in suggesting that, even though the Dursleys are trying as hard as they can to prevent Harry from starting his Wizarding education / i.e Great Work alchemically speaking, there is no way they can succeed. This is particularly apparent in the desperate trip through the country led by uncle Vernon. The Work simply cannot be escaped.

First proof of it is given by the address of the hotel where they stop for the night which appears on the letter Harry receives there: “Mr H. Potter/ Room 17 / Railview Hotel, Cokeworth” (PS/SS, p.36). The coke is that which powers the engine of the Hogwarts steam train (suggested by the ‘Railview Hotel’ name), a nod towards the alchemical furnace but also towards the Black Stage that starts the Work since coal is “a symbol for the blackness of the Nigredo” (L. Abraham, A Dictionary of Alchemical Imagery). As for Harry’s room, it bears the number 17 reminiscent of the coming of age of the Wizard he will be at the end of the (railroad) journey: let’s not forget that his inner Work will be completed in a railway station, King’s Cross, at the end of the DH.

Next Vernon drives madly, first “into the middle of a forest”, which was, for the alchemists, the place where to find their first matter, stopping next “in the middle of a ploughed field”, one of the alchemists’ favorite symbols, that of the seed sown in the well worked earth from which gold will grow (see for example Michael Maier’s 6th emblem: http:**//**[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] just remove the stars). Then he stops “halfway across a suspension bridge” a symbol for hope which finds its resolution in the “Tale of the Three Brothers” (see post #2086). Try as he might, there is no way out.

Finally Vernon Dursley thought they would be safe from any Wizarding intrusion on “what looked like a large rock way out at sea”. However there is no other issue for Vernon than to be sorely disappointed. Indeed, they do not go to an island, but to a rock and a rock is “the place where the [materia prima] is found, the alchemical vessel, a name for the philosopher’s stone.” (L.Abraham).
Reaching the rock already is done in “an old rowing boat bobbing in the iron-grey water below them.” The water is iron-gray, another reference to iron, PS/SS’s metal, and to war. Moreover: “As night fell, the promised storm blew up around them.” The Hermetic Storm is the alchemical image of the conjunction, the process which heralds the Red Stage – here, the Red Mentor, Hagrid’s arrival.

Materia Prima Harry is on the rock (the vessel) after crossing the iron-gray (Mars/war) water: his two worlds, the Muggle and the Wizarding one are now ready to join, in the conjunction of the storm. This happening on a Tuesday brings forth the double meaning of Mars again (Tuesday is Mars’s day): it is the iron of the beginning of the Great Work but also a brief glimpse of the Reign of Mars/Red Stage personified by Rubeus Hagrid. With his arrival starts the Ruby quest.

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Solitaire - Jul 8, 2010 7:08 am (#2154 of 2155)
Elanor, there are a couple of posts up on the "Other Students" thread, about names, that you might want to check. Odo asked a question about a thread on the significance of names (I thought there once was one, as well), and Choices thought it might have been discussed on this thread. I thought I'd post, since you know this thread better than anyone and would know where that "strain" of the discussion might be.

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Elanor - Jul 13, 2010 8:28 am (#2155 of 2155)
Thanks for telling me Soli! I'll have a look at it as soon as I can.

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