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Mona Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:30 am
S.E. Jones - Oct 5, 2004 12:13 am (#1201 of 1957)
I wonder, with respect to memories, if the brain would be putting memories in or taking memories out?
Mattew Bates - Oct 5, 2004 11:38 am (#1202 of 1957)
I'm of two minds on that, S.E.(pun not inteded) - One is that memories or ideas (specifically of Uric the Oddball) were implanted in Ron. The other is that his "deeper scarring" that Madam Pomfrey mentioned will actually alter the way his brain functions. This second one could show itself in any number of ways - positive and negative. He could be a faster thinker, more thoughtful of others, or more aware of his own painful memories. Still, I have this idea that he'll behave more oddly and that he may be more likely to think outside the box. Now, would that make him more or less interesting to Luna?
Potions Mistress - Oct 6, 2004 9:54 am (#1203 of 1957)
Mattew, do you suppose if Ron had Uric the Oddballs memories "implanted" in him, would that effect his personality? Do you think he might go around wearing a jellyfish for a hat?
~pm
Mattew Bates - Oct 7, 2004 10:27 am (#1204 of 1957)
Not if it was just Uric's memories, Potion Mistress. Ron would probably just find that bizarre (and maybe a bit cool). But if, out of the blue in Care of Magical Creatures he gets the idea to start varnishing bowtruckles, I'll have a pretty good idea of where it came from.
Whether or not anyone else is sold on this particular idea, I expect some of the incidental information from FB&WTFT, QTTA, and JKR's website to provide clues. I am expecting some form of bizarre behavior from Ron as a result of his brush with a Brain, and tying it to Uric might provide good comic relief scenes for what I'm expecting to be the darkest book in the series.
Jennifer Anderson [/b]- Oct 8, 2004 1:45 pm (#1205 of 1957)
Edited Oct 8, 2004 2:46 pm
I wouldn't be surprized at all if Ron started getting weird ideas because of the incedent with the brain. Though doubt he'll act on every single impluse he gets from it. I mean you don't [ at least I hope don't] act on every single impulse you get. But thoughts do actions, so he'll probably act on at least one or two maybe more of them depending on happens because he acted that way. I hope that makes sense.
But, over all I think the incdent with the brain is going to be important in some way because the way it was written gave me the impression. Because first Rowing has Ron temperally incapacitated by having him go little funny in the head then while he's like that have him go and get attacked by the brain, and then Madam Pomfrey said that the thoughts leave deeper scarring. Rowling could've easily left it at he has gone funny in the head. You know what I'm saying?
Potions Mistress - Oct 8, 2004 9:48 pm (#1206 of 1957)
I'd also like to add to Jennifer's post that Ron is pretty impulsive (especially compared to Hermione). He seems to have trouble thinking before he speaks. I wonder if that will somehow come up...
~pm
StareyedSlytherin - Oct 10, 2004 7:03 pm (#1207 of 1957)
Edited Oct 10, 2004 8:09 pm
There're other ways to look at that sentence, if you stress other words:
"you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events." (which might mean that the results are good, not damaging) and
"you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events." (which might mean that there will be damage but it won't last forever, which leads very well into Madam Pomfrey's statement of 'thoughts [can] leave deeper scarring than almost anything else').
Or maybe you could read it as :
"you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events."
It could be a little bit of both, not really all that damaging, but not lasting as well.. A good thing that could fade away with time? I think that would be another interesting possibility too, maybe it will have an effect on the way he thinks, possibly make him more thoughtful about things [maybe even a bit wierdly creative too, hehe!] ,some useful memories or information, or something else that could effect the situation for good, but might dissapear in the end leaving us with the same old Ron. This change could possibly be used for good in some way or another but there would be some sort of implied time limit the trio would have to meet in order to carry out some plan..
Just my thoughts, don't know if they're any good.. ^_^
Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 13, 2004 7:43 am (#1208 of 1957)
Phew........I have memorized that sentence.Lot's of possibilities. Anyway I think that Ron will remain as humble,honest,nice of a character,and truly extra-ordinary in being ordinary (whatever that means)he was and that freak brain accident will have no effect on him.Thank's stareyedslytherin for that good post.
mrweasley- Oct 16, 2004 12:12 pm (#1209 of 1957)
I guess so Ginevra, Ron will be what he's always been, although... To be honest, I really enjoyed the scenes in the DoM with Ron going "Get it, Harry? We saw Uranus - ha, ha, ha -" and "you look funny Harry, you're all messed up...". I think I wouldn't mind it too much if, at least in the beginning of book six, we would witness a few "late effects" of this before it wears off for good...
Am I being mean? No!
Paulus Maximus - Oct 17, 2004 11:54 am (#1210 of 1957)
According to Madam Pomfrey, thoughts can leave deeper scars than practically anything else. I doubt that Ron could have come out of the Battle of Mysteries unchanged.
Speaking of scars... Might Harry's and Dumbledore's scars have been caused by thoughts? Crouch Jr did say that the Auada Kedaura couldn't be cast just by saying the incantation and performing the gesture, that it took a good bit of willpower as well (or something).
legolas - Oct 17, 2004 12:08 pm (#1211 of 1957)
Probably a good deal of hate and a will to kill. Righteous anger did not hurt Bellatrix for long when Harry used the cruciatios curse.
Getting back to ron-Madam P. treated Ron with Dr Ublys oblivios potion. How can a potion target some very recent events and make you forget them?
Paulus Maximus - Oct 17, 2004 1:58 pm (#1212 of 1957)
Edited Oct 17, 2004 2:59 pm
Remember that potion of dreamless sleep that Dumbledore had Harry drink after Voldemort's rebirth? Maybe the oblivious unction is somewhat like that...
Or exactly the same...
Sorry for not answering the question, though. I don't know the answer either.
Urvi Bhimani - Oct 17, 2004 3:25 pm (#1213 of 1957)
Has anyone noticed that Ron seems to be having death clues follow him just like Sirius did?
For Sirius it was: he was the first one to get up from a table of 13 at Harry's first night at Grimmauld place, and Trelawney said the first to get up will be the first to die.
Similar to this, in POA during Xmas, Harry and Ron both got up but didn't know who got up first as Trelawney asked them. And then at the end of Book 5 after they took their Divination O.W.L's Ron said something like "i don't care if my tea leaves spell die ron die..." isn't that another clue? Hmm....I'm going to go see if i can find more...
Urvi Bhimani - Oct 17, 2004 3:26 pm (#1214 of 1957)
Another one was in PS/SS when they played McGonagall's chess game. Ron sacrificed himself in order for Harry to move on.
Star Crossed - Oct 17, 2004 6:20 pm (#1215 of 1957)
For Sirius it was: he was the first one to get up from a table of 13 at Harry's first night at Grimmauld place, and Trelawney said the first to get up will be the first to die.
Highly popular, but also false. Ginny was the first to get up.
Paulus Maximus - Oct 18, 2004 6:51 am (#1216 of 1957)
"I don't care if my tea leaves spell die ron die..."
While he was joking (and therefore probably right), all it means is he's going to quit divination.
Steve Newton - Oct 18, 2004 5:02 pm (#1217 of 1957)
Star Crossed, I'm pretty sure that I remember Sirius being the first to leave the table. Do you have a cite?
Star Crossed - Oct 18, 2004 5:08 pm (#1218 of 1957)
I don't have my book, unfortunately. But I am 99% positive that right before it says Sirius gets up, it mentions Ginny sitting on the floor, playing with wine corks with Crookshanks. I remember because it was quoted against the theory that Crookshanks is Dung.
Mrs Brisbee - Oct 18, 2004 5:09 pm (#1219 of 1957)
Edited Oct 18, 2004 6:09 pm
Ron said something like, " I don't care if my tea leaves spell die Ron die, I'm throwing them in the rubbish bin where they belong." Maybe it's just a clue that all predictions that Ron's going to die are rubbish?
Sir Tornado - Oct 18, 2004 9:43 pm (#1220 of 1957)
Yes. Star Crossed is indeed right. By the time Sirius gets up, Ginny is sitting on the floor playing with Crookshanks... BTW, Ginny could have not got up, you know... she could've just slid off her chair...
schoff - Oct 18, 2004 11:27 pm (#1221 of 1957)
Edited Oct 19, 2004 12:34 am
No, she's not. Mrs. Weasley got up first.
OoP 5 US 86:
For some reason, Mrs. Weasley threw a very nasty look at Sirius before getting to her feet and going to fetch a large rhubarb crumble for pudding.
Ginny on the floor isn't mentioned until p. 87--after the dessert. Oddly, it appears superficially that there are only 12 at dinner. Ron is not mentioned once during the whole scene--not even to point out where he's sitting. He doesn't re-enter until he protests having to go to bed instead of listening to what the Order's been up to (p. 90).
Sir Tornado - Oct 19, 2004 1:21 am (#1222 of 1957)
Yes... may be. Perhaps we should consult Prof. Trelawney. She would undoubtedly say that Harry got up first
gypsy68 - Oct 19, 2004 8:17 am (#1223 of 1957)
Ron also happens to be very very brave, always prepared to go and save the day, so i think he should be where he is
Steve Newton - Oct 20, 2004 4:23 pm (#1224 of 1957)
I just reread page 84 of OOTP. Molly does, indeed, get up to fetch a "large rhubarb crumble." (I don't know what that is.) Does anyone remember what Trelawney said? I don't think that getting up was the operative phrase. I think she said leaving. In which case Molly, who was fetching, was not leaving. Sirius was the first to leave the table.
Catherine - Oct 20, 2004 4:56 pm (#1225 of 1957)
Edited Oct 20, 2004 5:56 pm
Ok.
Sibyll Trelawney said in PoA at the Christmas Feast, "If I join the table, we shall be thirteen! Nothing could be more unlucky! Never forget that when thirteen dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die!" (p. 228, Scholastic hardback).
The operative word, in my opinion is rise. Whoever got up first, according to Sibyll, would be prey to the bad luck.
Make of this what you will. Firenze and McGonagall seem to scorn superstition.
rebecca dorgelo - Oct 20, 2004 4:59 pm (#1226 of 1957)
I tend to agree with Catherine about rising as opposed to leaving etc.
Steve, a rhubarb crumble is a very tasty pudding made of stewed rhubarb topped with a sweet, crunchy, crumbly topping. Apple crumbles are common too. I am very sad that you haven't had the pleasure
Steve Newton - Oct 21, 2004 5:12 am (#1227 of 1957)
Me, too.
Good Evans - Oct 21, 2004 9:30 am (#1228 of 1957)
Rhubarb crumble especialy nice served with lovely hot custard. yum!
Paulus Maximus - Oct 21, 2004 1:01 pm (#1229 of 1957)
That sounds much like what my family calls "rhubarb crisp".
I've had it before, and it is good.
Liz Mann - Oct 28, 2004 7:25 am (#1230 of 1957)
I am very worried about Ron and whether or not he is going to die. I am worrying for three main reasons. 1) He is my favourite character. 2) She has already killed off one of my favourites. 3) I have a nasty feeling that either Ron or Hermione is going to die. Out of the two, I'd prefer Hermione, though I don't particuarly fancy that, either.
Potions Mistress - Oct 28, 2004 12:42 pm (#1231 of 1957)
Hypothetically speaking (I hope), I think that the death of Ron would have a greater impact on Harry than if Hermione dies. I'm not saying that Hermione's death wouldn't affect Harry, but Ron was Harry's very first friend--I can't even begin to fathom how much that would rip Harry apart. Please not Ron, please not Ron, please not Ron...
~pm
Liz Mann - Oct 28, 2004 12:56 pm (#1232 of 1957)
Well, Harry's reaction to seeing Mrs Weasley's boggart should give us an idea. Gasp! Oh no! Foreshadowing!
Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 28, 2004 8:47 pm (#1233 of 1957)
I don't think JK Rowling is going to kill off harry, Ron or Hermione. but she did say on her website that she was going to kill someone off, I am thinking snape is going to be ratted out as a mole and killed.
Daioma Dumbledore - Oct 29, 2004 6:03 am (#1234 of 1957)
I can't see JKR killing off Ron, or Hermonie for that matter. My guess would be Dumbledore, I would hate for that to happen, but that's my thinking.
Liz Mann - Oct 29, 2004 7:41 am (#1235 of 1957)
Edited Oct 29, 2004 8:42 am
I agree with you about Dumbledore. But I'm still worried about Ron. Someone should write to J.K and ask her to name one character who is not going to die, rather than is, because she will never answer the latter. But then I suppose if you ask the former, she will give you the name of a minor character that we don't really care about.
Star Crossed - Oct 29, 2004 11:08 am (#1236 of 1957)
Or she'd do the absolute meanest thing, and trick us. She'd say something like James Potter. As we know, he can't die again, so technically, she'd be telling the truth.
Liz Mann - Oct 29, 2004 11:29 am (#1237 of 1957)
Or one of the ghosts.
Sir Tornado - Oct 30, 2004 12:19 pm (#1238 of 1957)
Or Voldemort... who we KNOW is going to die...
Tessa's Dad - Oct 30, 2004 5:54 pm (#1239 of 1957)
Draco could aim a curse at Ron. We read of a great blast of green light. When the smoke clears Draco missed Ron and hit Madam Marsh. Then Ron gets to curse The Amazing Bouncing Ferret.
Mrs. Sirius - Oct 30, 2004 7:55 pm (#1240 of 1957)
Back to the old "Ron is a seer, I don't remember any mention of this one before,
"Maybe he murdered Myrtle;" Ron to Harry and Hermione when disccussing T.M. Riddle's diary and why he'd gotten an award, CoS pg 232
wwtMask - Oct 30, 2004 10:11 pm (#1241 of 1957)
Yeah, I noticed that the second time I listened to the CoS audio book. I don't know if Ron's a seer, but it might be worthwile to calculate the statistical average of his offhand comments turning out to be true. Any takers on that?
I think I'll at least pay a bit more attention to what he says when HBP comes out!
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 31, 2004 9:43 am (#1242 of 1957)
I have decided to believe that Ron's joke comments that come true are in there for the sole purpose of forshadowing for the readers, not because he is a seer. I do think that he will become more insightful, maybe due to the brains showing him things inside his head.
By the way, the door on JKR's site is openable again
Paulus Maximus - Oct 31, 2004 12:04 pm (#1243 of 1957)
"Or Voldemort... who we KNOW is going to die..."
With all due respect, we really don't know that...
Jessalynn Quirky - Nov 1, 2004 4:11 am (#1244 of 1957)
If Voldemort doesn't die, what's the point of the whole series?
Paulus Maximus - Nov 1, 2004 8:13 am (#1245 of 1957)
To force Voldemort to understand that there are worse fates than death, perhaps.
It is entirely possible that Harry might ultimately defeat Voldemort, but decide that a quick death would be too good for him and condemn him to a far worse fate...
mike miller - Nov 1, 2004 9:05 am (#1246 of 1957)
I think if Ron were truly a "Seer", he would have said something when Fred and George placed their "long-shot" bet on the Quidditch World Cup.
"Hey, I told you guys that one!" Ron said as he spew'd tea all over the back of Bagman's Wimpbourne Wasps uniform. "You're not going to take it seriously are you?"
Liz Mann - Nov 1, 2004 10:12 am (#1247 of 1957)
As far as we know, true predictions happen in the way that Trelawney's "Voldemort will return" and "The one with the power..." prophecies were made. In which case, if Ron is a Seer then he wouldn't remember them. So he wouldn't have said that to the twins. But I don't think it very likely that Ron is a Seer, because the twins's bet on the match is the only possible 'Ron says something that comes true' thing that fits in with how prophecies happen.
"Maybe he murdered Myrtle;" Ron to Harry and Hermione when disccussing T.M. Riddle's diary and why he'd gotten an award, CoS pg 232.
This for example... Ron didn't go into a trance or anything when he said this did he? And if he had made it earlier then he wouldn't have remembered it, and so wouldn't have been able to say it.
He was probably thinking about where they found the diary, which made him think of Myrtle, which made him think of how annoying she is, which made him make that joke. J.K. was probably just going for irony there.
Someone once said (can't remember where) that Hermione is always right except when she gets emotional about it, and Ron is always wrong unless he makes a joke about it. And I agree.
TomProffitt - Nov 1, 2004 11:07 am (#1248 of 1957)
I took a long look at the Ron as Seer theory a while back. I only got through two and a half books, because it just didn't look either reliable or very promising.
On the quite remarkable side we should note than Ron has already received two of the four things he wanted in the Mirror of Erised scene. He has won the Quiditch Cup and been instrumental in winning the House Cup twice.
Spotting Myrtle's Murderer isn't exactly seeing because it is a fifty year old murder.
All in all I found Ron's success rate to be rather spotty. He's only had two or three "good" hits, and an awful lot of misses. Every time we cut him some slack to let in other possible predictions it let's in more failures. Although I did find his line in PoA about Lupin disturbing, "One good hex could finish him off."
Liz Mann - Nov 1, 2004 11:39 am (#1249 of 1957)
On the quite remarkable side we should note than Ron has already received two of the four things he wanted in the Mirror of Erised scene.
The Mirror of Erised has nothing to do with Seeing.
legolas - Nov 1, 2004 11:45 am (#1250 of 1957)
Well hes doing just as good as SPT but in a much shorter time space.
I wonder, with respect to memories, if the brain would be putting memories in or taking memories out?
Mattew Bates - Oct 5, 2004 11:38 am (#1202 of 1957)
I'm of two minds on that, S.E.(pun not inteded) - One is that memories or ideas (specifically of Uric the Oddball) were implanted in Ron. The other is that his "deeper scarring" that Madam Pomfrey mentioned will actually alter the way his brain functions. This second one could show itself in any number of ways - positive and negative. He could be a faster thinker, more thoughtful of others, or more aware of his own painful memories. Still, I have this idea that he'll behave more oddly and that he may be more likely to think outside the box. Now, would that make him more or less interesting to Luna?
Potions Mistress - Oct 6, 2004 9:54 am (#1203 of 1957)
Mattew, do you suppose if Ron had Uric the Oddballs memories "implanted" in him, would that effect his personality? Do you think he might go around wearing a jellyfish for a hat?
~pm
Mattew Bates - Oct 7, 2004 10:27 am (#1204 of 1957)
Not if it was just Uric's memories, Potion Mistress. Ron would probably just find that bizarre (and maybe a bit cool). But if, out of the blue in Care of Magical Creatures he gets the idea to start varnishing bowtruckles, I'll have a pretty good idea of where it came from.
Whether or not anyone else is sold on this particular idea, I expect some of the incidental information from FB&WTFT, QTTA, and JKR's website to provide clues. I am expecting some form of bizarre behavior from Ron as a result of his brush with a Brain, and tying it to Uric might provide good comic relief scenes for what I'm expecting to be the darkest book in the series.
Jennifer Anderson [/b]- Oct 8, 2004 1:45 pm (#1205 of 1957)
Edited Oct 8, 2004 2:46 pm
I wouldn't be surprized at all if Ron started getting weird ideas because of the incedent with the brain. Though doubt he'll act on every single impluse he gets from it. I mean you don't [ at least I hope don't] act on every single impulse you get. But thoughts do actions, so he'll probably act on at least one or two maybe more of them depending on happens because he acted that way. I hope that makes sense.
But, over all I think the incdent with the brain is going to be important in some way because the way it was written gave me the impression. Because first Rowing has Ron temperally incapacitated by having him go little funny in the head then while he's like that have him go and get attacked by the brain, and then Madam Pomfrey said that the thoughts leave deeper scarring. Rowling could've easily left it at he has gone funny in the head. You know what I'm saying?
Potions Mistress - Oct 8, 2004 9:48 pm (#1206 of 1957)
I'd also like to add to Jennifer's post that Ron is pretty impulsive (especially compared to Hermione). He seems to have trouble thinking before he speaks. I wonder if that will somehow come up...
~pm
StareyedSlytherin - Oct 10, 2004 7:03 pm (#1207 of 1957)
Edited Oct 10, 2004 8:09 pm
There're other ways to look at that sentence, if you stress other words:
"you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events." (which might mean that the results are good, not damaging) and
"you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events." (which might mean that there will be damage but it won't last forever, which leads very well into Madam Pomfrey's statement of 'thoughts [can] leave deeper scarring than almost anything else').
Or maybe you could read it as :
"you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events."
It could be a little bit of both, not really all that damaging, but not lasting as well.. A good thing that could fade away with time? I think that would be another interesting possibility too, maybe it will have an effect on the way he thinks, possibly make him more thoughtful about things [maybe even a bit wierdly creative too, hehe!] ,some useful memories or information, or something else that could effect the situation for good, but might dissapear in the end leaving us with the same old Ron. This change could possibly be used for good in some way or another but there would be some sort of implied time limit the trio would have to meet in order to carry out some plan..
Just my thoughts, don't know if they're any good.. ^_^
Ginevra-Weasley - Oct 13, 2004 7:43 am (#1208 of 1957)
Phew........I have memorized that sentence.Lot's of possibilities. Anyway I think that Ron will remain as humble,honest,nice of a character,and truly extra-ordinary in being ordinary (whatever that means)he was and that freak brain accident will have no effect on him.Thank's stareyedslytherin for that good post.
mrweasley- Oct 16, 2004 12:12 pm (#1209 of 1957)
I guess so Ginevra, Ron will be what he's always been, although... To be honest, I really enjoyed the scenes in the DoM with Ron going "Get it, Harry? We saw Uranus - ha, ha, ha -" and "you look funny Harry, you're all messed up...". I think I wouldn't mind it too much if, at least in the beginning of book six, we would witness a few "late effects" of this before it wears off for good...
Am I being mean? No!
Paulus Maximus - Oct 17, 2004 11:54 am (#1210 of 1957)
According to Madam Pomfrey, thoughts can leave deeper scars than practically anything else. I doubt that Ron could have come out of the Battle of Mysteries unchanged.
Speaking of scars... Might Harry's and Dumbledore's scars have been caused by thoughts? Crouch Jr did say that the Auada Kedaura couldn't be cast just by saying the incantation and performing the gesture, that it took a good bit of willpower as well (or something).
legolas - Oct 17, 2004 12:08 pm (#1211 of 1957)
Probably a good deal of hate and a will to kill. Righteous anger did not hurt Bellatrix for long when Harry used the cruciatios curse.
Getting back to ron-Madam P. treated Ron with Dr Ublys oblivios potion. How can a potion target some very recent events and make you forget them?
Paulus Maximus - Oct 17, 2004 1:58 pm (#1212 of 1957)
Edited Oct 17, 2004 2:59 pm
Remember that potion of dreamless sleep that Dumbledore had Harry drink after Voldemort's rebirth? Maybe the oblivious unction is somewhat like that...
Or exactly the same...
Sorry for not answering the question, though. I don't know the answer either.
Urvi Bhimani - Oct 17, 2004 3:25 pm (#1213 of 1957)
Has anyone noticed that Ron seems to be having death clues follow him just like Sirius did?
For Sirius it was: he was the first one to get up from a table of 13 at Harry's first night at Grimmauld place, and Trelawney said the first to get up will be the first to die.
Similar to this, in POA during Xmas, Harry and Ron both got up but didn't know who got up first as Trelawney asked them. And then at the end of Book 5 after they took their Divination O.W.L's Ron said something like "i don't care if my tea leaves spell die ron die..." isn't that another clue? Hmm....I'm going to go see if i can find more...
Urvi Bhimani - Oct 17, 2004 3:26 pm (#1214 of 1957)
Another one was in PS/SS when they played McGonagall's chess game. Ron sacrificed himself in order for Harry to move on.
Star Crossed - Oct 17, 2004 6:20 pm (#1215 of 1957)
For Sirius it was: he was the first one to get up from a table of 13 at Harry's first night at Grimmauld place, and Trelawney said the first to get up will be the first to die.
Highly popular, but also false. Ginny was the first to get up.
Paulus Maximus - Oct 18, 2004 6:51 am (#1216 of 1957)
"I don't care if my tea leaves spell die ron die..."
While he was joking (and therefore probably right), all it means is he's going to quit divination.
Steve Newton - Oct 18, 2004 5:02 pm (#1217 of 1957)
Star Crossed, I'm pretty sure that I remember Sirius being the first to leave the table. Do you have a cite?
Star Crossed - Oct 18, 2004 5:08 pm (#1218 of 1957)
I don't have my book, unfortunately. But I am 99% positive that right before it says Sirius gets up, it mentions Ginny sitting on the floor, playing with wine corks with Crookshanks. I remember because it was quoted against the theory that Crookshanks is Dung.
Mrs Brisbee - Oct 18, 2004 5:09 pm (#1219 of 1957)
Edited Oct 18, 2004 6:09 pm
Ron said something like, " I don't care if my tea leaves spell die Ron die, I'm throwing them in the rubbish bin where they belong." Maybe it's just a clue that all predictions that Ron's going to die are rubbish?
Sir Tornado - Oct 18, 2004 9:43 pm (#1220 of 1957)
Yes. Star Crossed is indeed right. By the time Sirius gets up, Ginny is sitting on the floor playing with Crookshanks... BTW, Ginny could have not got up, you know... she could've just slid off her chair...
schoff - Oct 18, 2004 11:27 pm (#1221 of 1957)
Edited Oct 19, 2004 12:34 am
No, she's not. Mrs. Weasley got up first.
OoP 5 US 86:
For some reason, Mrs. Weasley threw a very nasty look at Sirius before getting to her feet and going to fetch a large rhubarb crumble for pudding.
Ginny on the floor isn't mentioned until p. 87--after the dessert. Oddly, it appears superficially that there are only 12 at dinner. Ron is not mentioned once during the whole scene--not even to point out where he's sitting. He doesn't re-enter until he protests having to go to bed instead of listening to what the Order's been up to (p. 90).
Sir Tornado - Oct 19, 2004 1:21 am (#1222 of 1957)
Yes... may be. Perhaps we should consult Prof. Trelawney. She would undoubtedly say that Harry got up first
gypsy68 - Oct 19, 2004 8:17 am (#1223 of 1957)
Ron also happens to be very very brave, always prepared to go and save the day, so i think he should be where he is
Steve Newton - Oct 20, 2004 4:23 pm (#1224 of 1957)
I just reread page 84 of OOTP. Molly does, indeed, get up to fetch a "large rhubarb crumble." (I don't know what that is.) Does anyone remember what Trelawney said? I don't think that getting up was the operative phrase. I think she said leaving. In which case Molly, who was fetching, was not leaving. Sirius was the first to leave the table.
Catherine - Oct 20, 2004 4:56 pm (#1225 of 1957)
Edited Oct 20, 2004 5:56 pm
Ok.
Sibyll Trelawney said in PoA at the Christmas Feast, "If I join the table, we shall be thirteen! Nothing could be more unlucky! Never forget that when thirteen dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die!" (p. 228, Scholastic hardback).
The operative word, in my opinion is rise. Whoever got up first, according to Sibyll, would be prey to the bad luck.
Make of this what you will. Firenze and McGonagall seem to scorn superstition.
rebecca dorgelo - Oct 20, 2004 4:59 pm (#1226 of 1957)
I tend to agree with Catherine about rising as opposed to leaving etc.
Steve, a rhubarb crumble is a very tasty pudding made of stewed rhubarb topped with a sweet, crunchy, crumbly topping. Apple crumbles are common too. I am very sad that you haven't had the pleasure
Steve Newton - Oct 21, 2004 5:12 am (#1227 of 1957)
Me, too.
Good Evans - Oct 21, 2004 9:30 am (#1228 of 1957)
Rhubarb crumble especialy nice served with lovely hot custard. yum!
Paulus Maximus - Oct 21, 2004 1:01 pm (#1229 of 1957)
That sounds much like what my family calls "rhubarb crisp".
I've had it before, and it is good.
Liz Mann - Oct 28, 2004 7:25 am (#1230 of 1957)
I am very worried about Ron and whether or not he is going to die. I am worrying for three main reasons. 1) He is my favourite character. 2) She has already killed off one of my favourites. 3) I have a nasty feeling that either Ron or Hermione is going to die. Out of the two, I'd prefer Hermione, though I don't particuarly fancy that, either.
Potions Mistress - Oct 28, 2004 12:42 pm (#1231 of 1957)
Hypothetically speaking (I hope), I think that the death of Ron would have a greater impact on Harry than if Hermione dies. I'm not saying that Hermione's death wouldn't affect Harry, but Ron was Harry's very first friend--I can't even begin to fathom how much that would rip Harry apart. Please not Ron, please not Ron, please not Ron...
~pm
Liz Mann - Oct 28, 2004 12:56 pm (#1232 of 1957)
Well, Harry's reaction to seeing Mrs Weasley's boggart should give us an idea. Gasp! Oh no! Foreshadowing!
Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 28, 2004 8:47 pm (#1233 of 1957)
I don't think JK Rowling is going to kill off harry, Ron or Hermione. but she did say on her website that she was going to kill someone off, I am thinking snape is going to be ratted out as a mole and killed.
Daioma Dumbledore - Oct 29, 2004 6:03 am (#1234 of 1957)
I can't see JKR killing off Ron, or Hermonie for that matter. My guess would be Dumbledore, I would hate for that to happen, but that's my thinking.
Liz Mann - Oct 29, 2004 7:41 am (#1235 of 1957)
Edited Oct 29, 2004 8:42 am
I agree with you about Dumbledore. But I'm still worried about Ron. Someone should write to J.K and ask her to name one character who is not going to die, rather than is, because she will never answer the latter. But then I suppose if you ask the former, she will give you the name of a minor character that we don't really care about.
Star Crossed - Oct 29, 2004 11:08 am (#1236 of 1957)
Or she'd do the absolute meanest thing, and trick us. She'd say something like James Potter. As we know, he can't die again, so technically, she'd be telling the truth.
Liz Mann - Oct 29, 2004 11:29 am (#1237 of 1957)
Or one of the ghosts.
Sir Tornado - Oct 30, 2004 12:19 pm (#1238 of 1957)
Or Voldemort... who we KNOW is going to die...
Tessa's Dad - Oct 30, 2004 5:54 pm (#1239 of 1957)
Draco could aim a curse at Ron. We read of a great blast of green light. When the smoke clears Draco missed Ron and hit Madam Marsh. Then Ron gets to curse The Amazing Bouncing Ferret.
Mrs. Sirius - Oct 30, 2004 7:55 pm (#1240 of 1957)
Back to the old "Ron is a seer, I don't remember any mention of this one before,
"Maybe he murdered Myrtle;" Ron to Harry and Hermione when disccussing T.M. Riddle's diary and why he'd gotten an award, CoS pg 232
wwtMask - Oct 30, 2004 10:11 pm (#1241 of 1957)
Yeah, I noticed that the second time I listened to the CoS audio book. I don't know if Ron's a seer, but it might be worthwile to calculate the statistical average of his offhand comments turning out to be true. Any takers on that?
I think I'll at least pay a bit more attention to what he says when HBP comes out!
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Oct 31, 2004 9:43 am (#1242 of 1957)
I have decided to believe that Ron's joke comments that come true are in there for the sole purpose of forshadowing for the readers, not because he is a seer. I do think that he will become more insightful, maybe due to the brains showing him things inside his head.
By the way, the door on JKR's site is openable again
Paulus Maximus - Oct 31, 2004 12:04 pm (#1243 of 1957)
"Or Voldemort... who we KNOW is going to die..."
With all due respect, we really don't know that...
Jessalynn Quirky - Nov 1, 2004 4:11 am (#1244 of 1957)
If Voldemort doesn't die, what's the point of the whole series?
Paulus Maximus - Nov 1, 2004 8:13 am (#1245 of 1957)
To force Voldemort to understand that there are worse fates than death, perhaps.
It is entirely possible that Harry might ultimately defeat Voldemort, but decide that a quick death would be too good for him and condemn him to a far worse fate...
mike miller - Nov 1, 2004 9:05 am (#1246 of 1957)
I think if Ron were truly a "Seer", he would have said something when Fred and George placed their "long-shot" bet on the Quidditch World Cup.
"Hey, I told you guys that one!" Ron said as he spew'd tea all over the back of Bagman's Wimpbourne Wasps uniform. "You're not going to take it seriously are you?"
Liz Mann - Nov 1, 2004 10:12 am (#1247 of 1957)
As far as we know, true predictions happen in the way that Trelawney's "Voldemort will return" and "The one with the power..." prophecies were made. In which case, if Ron is a Seer then he wouldn't remember them. So he wouldn't have said that to the twins. But I don't think it very likely that Ron is a Seer, because the twins's bet on the match is the only possible 'Ron says something that comes true' thing that fits in with how prophecies happen.
"Maybe he murdered Myrtle;" Ron to Harry and Hermione when disccussing T.M. Riddle's diary and why he'd gotten an award, CoS pg 232.
This for example... Ron didn't go into a trance or anything when he said this did he? And if he had made it earlier then he wouldn't have remembered it, and so wouldn't have been able to say it.
He was probably thinking about where they found the diary, which made him think of Myrtle, which made him think of how annoying she is, which made him make that joke. J.K. was probably just going for irony there.
Someone once said (can't remember where) that Hermione is always right except when she gets emotional about it, and Ron is always wrong unless he makes a joke about it. And I agree.
TomProffitt - Nov 1, 2004 11:07 am (#1248 of 1957)
I took a long look at the Ron as Seer theory a while back. I only got through two and a half books, because it just didn't look either reliable or very promising.
On the quite remarkable side we should note than Ron has already received two of the four things he wanted in the Mirror of Erised scene. He has won the Quiditch Cup and been instrumental in winning the House Cup twice.
Spotting Myrtle's Murderer isn't exactly seeing because it is a fifty year old murder.
All in all I found Ron's success rate to be rather spotty. He's only had two or three "good" hits, and an awful lot of misses. Every time we cut him some slack to let in other possible predictions it let's in more failures. Although I did find his line in PoA about Lupin disturbing, "One good hex could finish him off."
Liz Mann - Nov 1, 2004 11:39 am (#1249 of 1957)
On the quite remarkable side we should note than Ron has already received two of the four things he wanted in the Mirror of Erised scene.
The Mirror of Erised has nothing to do with Seeing.
legolas - Nov 1, 2004 11:45 am (#1250 of 1957)
Well hes doing just as good as SPT but in a much shorter time space.
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Liz Mann - Nov 1, 2004 2:23 pm (#1251 of 1957)
But he's not making predictions. He's just making jokes.
legolas - Nov 1, 2004 2:27 pm (#1252 of 1957)
But they are coming true though.
Liz Mann - Nov 1, 2004 2:31 pm (#1253 of 1957)
Well, not exactly. The Moaning Myrtle thing didn't 'come true', because it had already happened fifty years ago.
legolas - Nov 1, 2004 2:47 pm (#1254 of 1957)
From Talons and Tealeaves POA.
Trials and suffering-He suffered pretty much constantly in book 4 and 5 culminating in the death of Sirius. Hes had some trials-Triwizard tournament. Hes got more to come
Great Happiness-Finding out about Sirius. Hopefully something nice in the future.
A windfall-1000 galleons for winning the triwizard tournament.
StareyedSlytherin - Nov 1, 2004 3:03 pm (#1255 of 1957)
[If Voldemort doesn't die, what's the point of the whole series?]
Jessalynn Quirky, I think you've come across the point of the series without even realising it. Voldemort will be defeated in the end, but if he can't be killed, then how else will Harry be able to defeat him?
[Thank's stareyedslytherin for that good post.]
Thank you, Ginevra-Weasley. I appreciate the compliment! ^_^
Liz Mann - Nov 2, 2004 2:01 pm (#1256 of 1957)
Legolas - that's not really Ron, though, it's the tea leaves. You don't need to be a Seer to read them, you just need to know the symbols (and Ron had the text book in front of him). If you needed to be a Seer then they wouldn't bother teaching it at Hogwarts because 99% of the pupils wouldn't be Seers. Besides, Harry was the one who prepared the cup for reading.
legolas - Nov 3, 2004 2:35 pm (#1257 of 1957)
Fair enough but he was still making an accurate reading of the leaves.
Liz Mann - Nov 3, 2004 2:56 pm (#1258 of 1957)
Maybe. But you actually made a mistake in post 1244. In the movie, Ron read the 'trials and suffering but be very happy' thing in Harry's tealeaves, but in the book Harry read them in Ron's.
"Right, you've got a wonky sort of cross..." he (Harry) said, consulting Unfogging the Future, "That means you're going to have 'trials and suffering' - sorry about that - but there's a thing that could be the sun. Hang on... that means 'great happiness'... so you're going to suffer but be very happy..."
"You need you're Inner Eye testing, if you ask me," said Ron.
So Ron does not get credit for that. Yes, Ron did say about the windfall, and about maybe working for the Ministry (and Harry does want to be an Auror), but like I said before, anyone can read the tealeaves when they know the symbols and have the text book in front of them.
I will be interested to see if this theory is true. But until J.K. confirms it, I will remain cautious.
Phoenix song - Nov 3, 2004 3:48 pm (#1259 of 1957)
Does your book say "wonky"? I'm pretty sure that my book says crooked. Do you have a British version perhaps?
Barbie
TomProffitt - Nov 3, 2004 8:41 pm (#1260 of 1957)
Sorry to disrupt the flow of the thread, but I had an epiphany while reading OP today.
It has been assumed (by characters as well as readers) that Ron has trouble at Quidditch because he's nervous in front of crowds.
The truth, however, is Ron only plays well when Harry isn't there.
Harry wasn't at the try out and Ron played well enough to make the team.
All of the practices go poorly for Ron, and Harry is right there with him.
Their first game goes very badly for Ron, he is bailed out by Harry's catch of the snitch.
The second game is a fiasco and Harry is in the stands.
The third game starts off just like the second. Harry (and Hermione, she could be the jinx also) heads off to meet Grawp, and voila, Ron becomes uber-keeper.
Harry is Ron's bad luck charm.
TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 3, 2004 8:47 pm (#1261 of 1957)
Maybe not so much Ron's bad luck charm as a mental block, similar to living up to his siblings? He has also seen Harry become an adopted member of "his" family.
StareyedSlytherin - Nov 3, 2004 9:03 pm (#1262 of 1957)
Good thinking! I agree with TwinklingBlueEyes though, with Harry around, Ron probably feels like he has a lot to live up to and is probably much calmer when Harry is away from the game or practice.
Although I think [ can't be sure, I don't have the book here with me] that there were a couple practices that Harry didn't attend where Ron actually did play poorly. Not absolutely sure though.
Steve Newton - Nov 4, 2004 7:28 am (#1263 of 1957)
Tom, I think that the same list would work if you did it for the twins. In general I agree. He has frozen (choked?) when he was watched by people important to him. Ginny is the exception. I think that he is taking care of Ginny.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 4, 2004 8:22 am (#1264 of 1957)
Harry wasn't at the practice on Valentine's Day, and Ron seemed to do poorly then.
Unless it was everyone else who did poorly...
mike miller - Nov 4, 2004 10:18 am (#1265 of 1957)
Tom - The only flaw I see in your theory is that Ron thought Harry was watching during the third game. I still think it's Ron's lack of self-confidence being the last of six boys. Ron puts pressure on himself to live up to his older brothers. Ron finally does well after he gives up worrying about. No pressure - Good performance.
Sorry, I don't have the books with me to look up Ron's comment about sort of letting go, thinking it can't get any worse.
Hr]
Annika - Nov 4, 2004 10:32 am (#1266 of 1957)
When Harry and Ron were practicing prior to the actual team practice, Ron was doing well. I agree that his lack of self-confidence is responsible for his poor performance.
Annika
mrweasley - Nov 4, 2004 11:11 am (#1267 of 1957)
Tom, I think you're definitely on to something. However, I don't think it's Harry's presence as such that is the crucial point, as other people have pointed out already.
Lack of self-confidence, yes. But why? And here, I guess, you gave us part of the answer, Tom: Ron easily feels inferior, especially when he's surrounded with people like Harry (who has proved to be a great seeker), the twins (who don't exactly support him emotionally) and of course the Slytherins who cunningly discovered his weak point and exploited it immediately.
I think that he overcame his nervousness in the end because he felt he was in a "can't-get-any-worse" situation. He had nothing to lose any more, and that proved to become his mental backbone.
Liz Mann - Nov 4, 2004 1:04 pm (#1268 of 1957)
I was going to say the same as Annika. I don't think Ron is made nervous by Harry because when it was just the two of them practicing, Ron was doing pretty good. It was only when the Slytherins came to watch that he started doing badly. He's nervous because he's having huge amounts of pressure heaped on him. When the Chasers come his way with the Quaffle, he knows everyone in the stands are looking at him, and at least three out of the four houses are counting on him, and he can't handle the stress. When Harry plays Quiddich, being airbourne is enough to erase his nerves, but Ron is different than Harry. He has more riding on his sucess, because he wants to live up to his brothers. Charlie was one of the best Seekers ever, Fred and George are great Beaters, and then Ginny joins the team and proves an okay Seeker too. Plus, I don't think Ron has much confidence in himself and actually, although I like her, I kind of blame Mrs Weasley for that. She tends to overlook Ron and the twins, while paying lots of attention to Bill, Charlie and Percy because they're all sucessful. She's made Ron feel like he has to be sucessful too.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 4, 2004 3:20 pm (#1269 of 1957)
Oh, yes... One more thing. Ron didn't even know that Harry wasn't there when he won the Quidditch Cup...
TomProffitt - Nov 5, 2004 10:03 am (#1270 of 1957)
Thanks for all the input, but I didn't mean to imply that Harry was a jinx in a "he makes Ron nervous" sort of way, but in a "It's Magic!" sort of way.
However, the instances of the Valentines Day practice, etc., suggest my theory was not so good. I should learn to research.
Liz Mann - Nov 5, 2004 12:34 pm (#1271 of 1957)
It's an excuse to read the book again, isn't it?
The One - Nov 5, 2004 3:14 pm (#1272 of 1957)
Ron puts pressure on himself to live up to his older brothers. Ron finally does well after he gives up worrying about. No pressure - Good performance.
The interesting thing about this is that it leaves open an interesting question: What happens next year?
Ron has achieved success, this may raise his confidence and he may stay a good keeper.
But on the other hand, he has no longer nothing to loose, he will put himself under pressure again and his fall Qudditch play may prove yet a disaster...
Liz Mann - Nov 5, 2004 4:57 pm (#1273 of 1957)
Maybe now that he knows he can save goals, he will do better at it. And maybe now that the Weasley Is Our King song has failed them, the Slytherins will give up singing it, so at least Ron won't have that to put him off.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 5, 2004 5:46 pm (#1274 of 1957)
The thing about that song is, it's become a Gryffindor song...
Of course the Slytherins will stop singing it...
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 10:36 am (#1275 of 1957)
Every indication is that the Weasley family are all more than competent wizards. Ron's only short-coming has been confidence. His performance on the Quidditch pitch will probably carry over into their sixth year. The only question I have is; will there be any last detrimental effects from his run in with the Brain?
Paulus Maximus - Nov 9, 2004 10:39 am (#1276 of 1957)
According to Dumbledore, none of Harry's comrades suffered lasting damage from the Battle of Mysteries.
If the brain did something to Ron, it's either not lasting or not damage...
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 11:20 am (#1277 of 1957)
Paulus - I remember DD's comment but I thought there was another comment, possibly from Madame Pomfrey about Ron's injuries. Does anyone have the book handy?
Steve Newton - Nov 9, 2004 12:02 pm (#1278 of 1957)
Well, on page 822 of the American hardcover edition if find this, "Well, Harry," said Dumbledore, finally turning away from the baby bird, "you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events."
I haven't found anything from Madame Pomfrey yet.
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 12:30 pm (#1279 of 1957)
Thanks Steve! I just seem to remember someone saying something to the effect that it will longer to tell with injuries to the brain.
I'm not that far from that part in my re-read of OotP. I stopped last night right after Harry's vision of Sirius being tortured. It was 11:30pm, there are 140 pages to go and the alarm goes off at 5am!
Steve Newton - Nov 9, 2004 12:31 pm (#1280 of 1957)
Been there!
Good Evans - Nov 9, 2004 12:36 pm (#1281 of 1957)
Mike during Harrys visit to the hospital wing, he notices that there are still wealds on Rons arms left from the brains, Madam Pomfrey says that thoughts do lingering damage, or more lasting damage (its something like that), but it is getting better now that she is applying a cream twice a day. It wil be interesting to see if these marks fade altogether or remain as a lasting reminder, and whether there is any other damage, this is not alluded to precisely in the book. again to watch out for in HBP.
Liz Mann - Nov 9, 2004 12:52 pm (#1282 of 1957)
The exact quote was: There were still deep welts on his forearms where the brain's tentacles had wrapped around him. Accourding to Madam Pomfrey, thoughts could leave deeper scarring than anything else, though since she had started applying copious amounts of Dr Ubbly's Oblivious Unction there seemed to have been some improvement.
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 12:53 pm (#1283 of 1957)
Thanks Good Evans! That sounds like what I remember.
Well I done with work for the day, time to get home and finish re-reading OotP!
EDIT: Thanks Liz!
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 9, 2004 6:14 pm (#1284 of 1957)
Page 856 of American edition of OotP says "Ron and Hermione left the hospital wing completely cured three days before the end of the term." And on the train home Ron seems to have no ill effects, seemed just like his old self.
Mikie
mike miller - Nov 10, 2004 5:34 am (#1285 of 1957)
Thanks Mikie! I can't help but think we will see some subtle changes in Ron as a result of his encounter.
I'm nearly finished with my most recent re-read of OotP (the battle at the DOM/MOM is just over). Again, I found myself reading late with too much book to go and too little time before the alarm clock goes off. I was reading slowly trying to catch all of the subtle details. Tonight I will finish!
ema fewett - Nov 14, 2004 4:52 pm (#1286 of 1957)
Hi guys! I was reading through the posts and was wondering about the Ron-Hermione love thing and all I saw were the speculations and things. What I want to ask is, say that Ron and Hermione do get to gether and go out(which I think is definately going to happen), who will be the first to ask, "Will you go out with me?" and in which book do you thing this is going to happen?
Fawkes Forever - Nov 15, 2004 4:32 am (#1287 of 1957)
Hey Ema, welcome to the forum. If you're interested in discussing this subject further, there is an entire thread devoted to Relationships ('ships) in the Harry Potter series. You’ll find the thread "'Ship-'Ship (Exploring relationships)" under the Theories section... You could repost your question over there.
We tend to steer clear of such topics in the ordinary threads as the discussions can get a bit heated to say the least Have fun shifting through the many ‘debates’ over there…
Potions Mistress - Nov 25, 2004 11:40 am (#1288 of 1957)
All right, I wasn't sure where to pose this question, but since it has to do with Ron's home, I thought this thread would probably do. (But feel free to move it to a more suitable thread if one is found!)
Does the "St." in Ottery St. Catchpole mean "Street" or "Saint" or something else entirely? And if it means "Saint," could someone please explain the connection to Ottery and Catchpole? Many thanks from this confused Yankee!
~pm
Ydnam96 - Nov 25, 2004 12:51 pm (#1289 of 1957)
I'm a Yankee as well, but it was always my understanding that it was Ottery Saint Catchpole. I'll do some investigating and let you know what I find out (my pumking stuff is cooking, so I have to do something while I wait)
edit: so I looked it up on Google and the first page it came up with was the Lexicon But from what I can gather JK went to school near a town named Ottery St. Mary, where Samuel Coleridge was born. Some think it was named after that (I found that on a webpage called Digsville). Another forum I found (something called chamber of secrets) people said that catchpole means constable or sheriff. So...
I'm not sure what that means, but that's what I found.
Dr Filibuster - Nov 25, 2004 12:52 pm (#1290 of 1957)
Not sure how to answer your question because it's a made up location. I say Ottery Saint Catchpole. It won't be Ottery Sreet, Catchpole.
Those kind of odd name places consisting of several words are reasonably common around England, especially if they are tiny places in the middle of nowhere. Sometimes the words get altered or shortened over many centuries. Sometimes the meaning of words have changed completely.
What may have started out as "that valley with those 5 houses built by the Ottery family on the ruins of the old monastary founded by St Catchpole" becomes "Ottery St Catchpole". It may turn into "Ottery" or "Catchpole", infact the locals may already call it Otty or what about Otpole?
Maybe it started out as two places...Ottery by St Catchpole and as the two places merged, so did the name? There's a forum member who orignates from the area JKR grew up in. I think he said there IS a river Ottery(???) So it could be Ottery St Catchpole to distinguish itself from another Catchpole nearby. But like I said, it's a fictional village. I thnk Rowling likes quirky name places.
Do a search on the (sometimes scarily intense but fascinating) Alchemy thread for much more deeper meanings.
Robert Dierken - Nov 25, 2004 5:11 pm (#1291 of 1957)
The river in Ottery Saint Mary is the Otter River.
Potions Mistress - Nov 25, 2004 8:21 pm (#1292 of 1957)
Thank you all! I'm much less confused now. BTW, Ydnam96, the Chamber of Secrets are the forums on Mugglenet.com, which I like to peruse also--very fun and informative. ;-)
~pm
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 26, 2004 4:46 pm (#1293 of 1957)
Sir Tornado - On the "ship" thread you stated that Ron had turned his back on Harry and Hermione. When, Where and Why? Personally I would love to have a friend like Ron who will apparently go to any lengths to support or back up his friends.
Mikie
Sir Tornado - Nov 26, 2004 7:45 pm (#1294 of 1957)
Sir Tornado - On the "ship" thread you stated that Ron had turned his back on Harry and Hermione. When, Where and Why? Personally I would love to have a friend like Ron who will apparently go to any lengths to support or back up his friends. -- Mickycee 3948
Mickey, I never said that Ron turned his back on Hermione. I just said Ron turned his back on Harry, in GoF, just before the First task. Here are my views on that subject:
Post#772
Post#895
My views on the subject are also evident from my posts following the above linked posts.
Thanks!
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 26, 2004 8:18 pm (#1295 of 1957)
Sir Tornado - I understand your reasoning but must state that I believe it is misguided.
Every friendship must occasionally run into rough water. It is just like every marriage, every job or anything in life. Ron was upset at first because he felt Harry had lied to him about the tournament. Then he realized he was wrong but was to proud to admit his mistake and you have to admit that Harry didn't make it easy for him. But after the first event he was there admitted he was wrong and asked for Harry's forgiveness. I still can't find fault with Ron's friendship.
Mikie
Sir Tornado - Nov 27, 2004 4:23 am (#1296 of 1957)
Every friendship must occasionally run into rough water. It is just like every marriage, every job or anything in life. Ron was upset at first because he felt Harry had lied to him about the tournament.
Mickey, that is not true. We know, through Hermione, that Ron did believe Harry. According to Hermione, Ron did that purely out of jealousy. (For referance, read the talk Harry and Hermione had when they take a walk around the lake) That, IMO, is turning your back on your friend, whichever way you see it.
tracie1976 - Nov 27, 2004 4:46 am (#1297 of 1957)
I agree with Tornado. What Ron did was out of jealousy.
Sir Tornado - Nov 27, 2004 5:03 am (#1298 of 1957)
Thank you Tracie
Liz Mann - Nov 27, 2004 11:39 am (#1299 of 1957)
I think Ron has gotten over his jealousy now. I think the moment when it disappeared was in the hospital wing at the end.
Now the burning feeling was in his throat, too. He wished Ron would look away.
I think the reason Ron is staring is because he has never seen Harry cry before and it is just hitting him that Harry doesn't have the glamerous life that he previously thought he had. He no longer has nothing to be jealous of.
the judderman - Nov 27, 2004 3:53 pm (#1300 of 1957)
And i disagree with tornado. Rons initial reactions were due to him feeling that Harry had tricked him. When Hermione tells Harry that the reason for the fight is Ron's jealousy, she means that that is why the fight is being stretched out; that now that he has had time to think about it, Ron realises that Harry couldnt have fooled the age line, but that Ron finds it difficult to admit to his mistake (believing that Harry had lied when he hadnt) and i think that being stubborn and afraid is something that a lot of people can identify with. As i read the books, Ron is trying to edge towards an apology even before the first task, such as during the lesson where he catches Harry's eye and also when he comes down when Harry is talking to Sirius in the fire. (Ron comes down becuase he is worried about Harry. He knows that Harry has a tendency towards midnight wandering and although they have fought and is concerned for his friends well-being - showing how deeply he cares for harry). If Harry had not gone beserk and thrown the badge, i think Ron would have apologised there and then. Also remember that Ron was so upset about the subsequent fight (with the badge) that he didnt come up to bed for hours. think people are way way way way too hard on Ron. Everyone makes bad jusgements. People who apologise for their mistakes deserve forgiveness and Ron has done that and proved to be a loyal friend ever since. Thats enough for me and for Harry.
But he's not making predictions. He's just making jokes.
legolas - Nov 1, 2004 2:27 pm (#1252 of 1957)
But they are coming true though.
Liz Mann - Nov 1, 2004 2:31 pm (#1253 of 1957)
Well, not exactly. The Moaning Myrtle thing didn't 'come true', because it had already happened fifty years ago.
legolas - Nov 1, 2004 2:47 pm (#1254 of 1957)
From Talons and Tealeaves POA.
Trials and suffering-He suffered pretty much constantly in book 4 and 5 culminating in the death of Sirius. Hes had some trials-Triwizard tournament. Hes got more to come
Great Happiness-Finding out about Sirius. Hopefully something nice in the future.
A windfall-1000 galleons for winning the triwizard tournament.
StareyedSlytherin - Nov 1, 2004 3:03 pm (#1255 of 1957)
[If Voldemort doesn't die, what's the point of the whole series?]
Jessalynn Quirky, I think you've come across the point of the series without even realising it. Voldemort will be defeated in the end, but if he can't be killed, then how else will Harry be able to defeat him?
[Thank's stareyedslytherin for that good post.]
Thank you, Ginevra-Weasley. I appreciate the compliment! ^_^
Liz Mann - Nov 2, 2004 2:01 pm (#1256 of 1957)
Legolas - that's not really Ron, though, it's the tea leaves. You don't need to be a Seer to read them, you just need to know the symbols (and Ron had the text book in front of him). If you needed to be a Seer then they wouldn't bother teaching it at Hogwarts because 99% of the pupils wouldn't be Seers. Besides, Harry was the one who prepared the cup for reading.
legolas - Nov 3, 2004 2:35 pm (#1257 of 1957)
Fair enough but he was still making an accurate reading of the leaves.
Liz Mann - Nov 3, 2004 2:56 pm (#1258 of 1957)
Maybe. But you actually made a mistake in post 1244. In the movie, Ron read the 'trials and suffering but be very happy' thing in Harry's tealeaves, but in the book Harry read them in Ron's.
"Right, you've got a wonky sort of cross..." he (Harry) said, consulting Unfogging the Future, "That means you're going to have 'trials and suffering' - sorry about that - but there's a thing that could be the sun. Hang on... that means 'great happiness'... so you're going to suffer but be very happy..."
"You need you're Inner Eye testing, if you ask me," said Ron.
So Ron does not get credit for that. Yes, Ron did say about the windfall, and about maybe working for the Ministry (and Harry does want to be an Auror), but like I said before, anyone can read the tealeaves when they know the symbols and have the text book in front of them.
I will be interested to see if this theory is true. But until J.K. confirms it, I will remain cautious.
Phoenix song - Nov 3, 2004 3:48 pm (#1259 of 1957)
Does your book say "wonky"? I'm pretty sure that my book says crooked. Do you have a British version perhaps?
Barbie
TomProffitt - Nov 3, 2004 8:41 pm (#1260 of 1957)
Sorry to disrupt the flow of the thread, but I had an epiphany while reading OP today.
It has been assumed (by characters as well as readers) that Ron has trouble at Quidditch because he's nervous in front of crowds.
The truth, however, is Ron only plays well when Harry isn't there.
Harry wasn't at the try out and Ron played well enough to make the team.
All of the practices go poorly for Ron, and Harry is right there with him.
Their first game goes very badly for Ron, he is bailed out by Harry's catch of the snitch.
The second game is a fiasco and Harry is in the stands.
The third game starts off just like the second. Harry (and Hermione, she could be the jinx also) heads off to meet Grawp, and voila, Ron becomes uber-keeper.
Harry is Ron's bad luck charm.
TwinklingBlueEyes - Nov 3, 2004 8:47 pm (#1261 of 1957)
Maybe not so much Ron's bad luck charm as a mental block, similar to living up to his siblings? He has also seen Harry become an adopted member of "his" family.
StareyedSlytherin - Nov 3, 2004 9:03 pm (#1262 of 1957)
Good thinking! I agree with TwinklingBlueEyes though, with Harry around, Ron probably feels like he has a lot to live up to and is probably much calmer when Harry is away from the game or practice.
Although I think [ can't be sure, I don't have the book here with me] that there were a couple practices that Harry didn't attend where Ron actually did play poorly. Not absolutely sure though.
Steve Newton - Nov 4, 2004 7:28 am (#1263 of 1957)
Tom, I think that the same list would work if you did it for the twins. In general I agree. He has frozen (choked?) when he was watched by people important to him. Ginny is the exception. I think that he is taking care of Ginny.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 4, 2004 8:22 am (#1264 of 1957)
Harry wasn't at the practice on Valentine's Day, and Ron seemed to do poorly then.
Unless it was everyone else who did poorly...
mike miller - Nov 4, 2004 10:18 am (#1265 of 1957)
Tom - The only flaw I see in your theory is that Ron thought Harry was watching during the third game. I still think it's Ron's lack of self-confidence being the last of six boys. Ron puts pressure on himself to live up to his older brothers. Ron finally does well after he gives up worrying about. No pressure - Good performance.
Sorry, I don't have the books with me to look up Ron's comment about sort of letting go, thinking it can't get any worse.
Hr]
Annika - Nov 4, 2004 10:32 am (#1266 of 1957)
When Harry and Ron were practicing prior to the actual team practice, Ron was doing well. I agree that his lack of self-confidence is responsible for his poor performance.
Annika
mrweasley - Nov 4, 2004 11:11 am (#1267 of 1957)
Tom, I think you're definitely on to something. However, I don't think it's Harry's presence as such that is the crucial point, as other people have pointed out already.
Lack of self-confidence, yes. But why? And here, I guess, you gave us part of the answer, Tom: Ron easily feels inferior, especially when he's surrounded with people like Harry (who has proved to be a great seeker), the twins (who don't exactly support him emotionally) and of course the Slytherins who cunningly discovered his weak point and exploited it immediately.
I think that he overcame his nervousness in the end because he felt he was in a "can't-get-any-worse" situation. He had nothing to lose any more, and that proved to become his mental backbone.
Liz Mann - Nov 4, 2004 1:04 pm (#1268 of 1957)
I was going to say the same as Annika. I don't think Ron is made nervous by Harry because when it was just the two of them practicing, Ron was doing pretty good. It was only when the Slytherins came to watch that he started doing badly. He's nervous because he's having huge amounts of pressure heaped on him. When the Chasers come his way with the Quaffle, he knows everyone in the stands are looking at him, and at least three out of the four houses are counting on him, and he can't handle the stress. When Harry plays Quiddich, being airbourne is enough to erase his nerves, but Ron is different than Harry. He has more riding on his sucess, because he wants to live up to his brothers. Charlie was one of the best Seekers ever, Fred and George are great Beaters, and then Ginny joins the team and proves an okay Seeker too. Plus, I don't think Ron has much confidence in himself and actually, although I like her, I kind of blame Mrs Weasley for that. She tends to overlook Ron and the twins, while paying lots of attention to Bill, Charlie and Percy because they're all sucessful. She's made Ron feel like he has to be sucessful too.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 4, 2004 3:20 pm (#1269 of 1957)
Oh, yes... One more thing. Ron didn't even know that Harry wasn't there when he won the Quidditch Cup...
TomProffitt - Nov 5, 2004 10:03 am (#1270 of 1957)
Thanks for all the input, but I didn't mean to imply that Harry was a jinx in a "he makes Ron nervous" sort of way, but in a "It's Magic!" sort of way.
However, the instances of the Valentines Day practice, etc., suggest my theory was not so good. I should learn to research.
Liz Mann - Nov 5, 2004 12:34 pm (#1271 of 1957)
It's an excuse to read the book again, isn't it?
The One - Nov 5, 2004 3:14 pm (#1272 of 1957)
Ron puts pressure on himself to live up to his older brothers. Ron finally does well after he gives up worrying about. No pressure - Good performance.
The interesting thing about this is that it leaves open an interesting question: What happens next year?
Ron has achieved success, this may raise his confidence and he may stay a good keeper.
But on the other hand, he has no longer nothing to loose, he will put himself under pressure again and his fall Qudditch play may prove yet a disaster...
Liz Mann - Nov 5, 2004 4:57 pm (#1273 of 1957)
Maybe now that he knows he can save goals, he will do better at it. And maybe now that the Weasley Is Our King song has failed them, the Slytherins will give up singing it, so at least Ron won't have that to put him off.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 5, 2004 5:46 pm (#1274 of 1957)
The thing about that song is, it's become a Gryffindor song...
Of course the Slytherins will stop singing it...
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 10:36 am (#1275 of 1957)
Every indication is that the Weasley family are all more than competent wizards. Ron's only short-coming has been confidence. His performance on the Quidditch pitch will probably carry over into their sixth year. The only question I have is; will there be any last detrimental effects from his run in with the Brain?
Paulus Maximus - Nov 9, 2004 10:39 am (#1276 of 1957)
According to Dumbledore, none of Harry's comrades suffered lasting damage from the Battle of Mysteries.
If the brain did something to Ron, it's either not lasting or not damage...
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 11:20 am (#1277 of 1957)
Paulus - I remember DD's comment but I thought there was another comment, possibly from Madame Pomfrey about Ron's injuries. Does anyone have the book handy?
Steve Newton - Nov 9, 2004 12:02 pm (#1278 of 1957)
Well, on page 822 of the American hardcover edition if find this, "Well, Harry," said Dumbledore, finally turning away from the baby bird, "you will be pleased to hear that none of your fellow students are going to suffer lasting damage from the night's events."
I haven't found anything from Madame Pomfrey yet.
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 12:30 pm (#1279 of 1957)
Thanks Steve! I just seem to remember someone saying something to the effect that it will longer to tell with injuries to the brain.
I'm not that far from that part in my re-read of OotP. I stopped last night right after Harry's vision of Sirius being tortured. It was 11:30pm, there are 140 pages to go and the alarm goes off at 5am!
Steve Newton - Nov 9, 2004 12:31 pm (#1280 of 1957)
Been there!
Good Evans - Nov 9, 2004 12:36 pm (#1281 of 1957)
Mike during Harrys visit to the hospital wing, he notices that there are still wealds on Rons arms left from the brains, Madam Pomfrey says that thoughts do lingering damage, or more lasting damage (its something like that), but it is getting better now that she is applying a cream twice a day. It wil be interesting to see if these marks fade altogether or remain as a lasting reminder, and whether there is any other damage, this is not alluded to precisely in the book. again to watch out for in HBP.
Liz Mann - Nov 9, 2004 12:52 pm (#1282 of 1957)
The exact quote was: There were still deep welts on his forearms where the brain's tentacles had wrapped around him. Accourding to Madam Pomfrey, thoughts could leave deeper scarring than anything else, though since she had started applying copious amounts of Dr Ubbly's Oblivious Unction there seemed to have been some improvement.
mike miller - Nov 9, 2004 12:53 pm (#1283 of 1957)
Thanks Good Evans! That sounds like what I remember.
Well I done with work for the day, time to get home and finish re-reading OotP!
EDIT: Thanks Liz!
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 9, 2004 6:14 pm (#1284 of 1957)
Page 856 of American edition of OotP says "Ron and Hermione left the hospital wing completely cured three days before the end of the term." And on the train home Ron seems to have no ill effects, seemed just like his old self.
Mikie
mike miller - Nov 10, 2004 5:34 am (#1285 of 1957)
Thanks Mikie! I can't help but think we will see some subtle changes in Ron as a result of his encounter.
I'm nearly finished with my most recent re-read of OotP (the battle at the DOM/MOM is just over). Again, I found myself reading late with too much book to go and too little time before the alarm clock goes off. I was reading slowly trying to catch all of the subtle details. Tonight I will finish!
ema fewett - Nov 14, 2004 4:52 pm (#1286 of 1957)
Hi guys! I was reading through the posts and was wondering about the Ron-Hermione love thing and all I saw were the speculations and things. What I want to ask is, say that Ron and Hermione do get to gether and go out(which I think is definately going to happen), who will be the first to ask, "Will you go out with me?" and in which book do you thing this is going to happen?
Fawkes Forever - Nov 15, 2004 4:32 am (#1287 of 1957)
Hey Ema, welcome to the forum. If you're interested in discussing this subject further, there is an entire thread devoted to Relationships ('ships) in the Harry Potter series. You’ll find the thread "'Ship-'Ship (Exploring relationships)" under the Theories section... You could repost your question over there.
We tend to steer clear of such topics in the ordinary threads as the discussions can get a bit heated to say the least Have fun shifting through the many ‘debates’ over there…
Potions Mistress - Nov 25, 2004 11:40 am (#1288 of 1957)
All right, I wasn't sure where to pose this question, but since it has to do with Ron's home, I thought this thread would probably do. (But feel free to move it to a more suitable thread if one is found!)
Does the "St." in Ottery St. Catchpole mean "Street" or "Saint" or something else entirely? And if it means "Saint," could someone please explain the connection to Ottery and Catchpole? Many thanks from this confused Yankee!
~pm
Ydnam96 - Nov 25, 2004 12:51 pm (#1289 of 1957)
I'm a Yankee as well, but it was always my understanding that it was Ottery Saint Catchpole. I'll do some investigating and let you know what I find out (my pumking stuff is cooking, so I have to do something while I wait)
edit: so I looked it up on Google and the first page it came up with was the Lexicon
But from what I can gather JK went to school near a town named Ottery St. Mary, where Samuel Coleridge was born. Some think it was named after that (I found that on a webpage called Digsville). Another forum I found (something called chamber of secrets) people said that catchpole means constable or sheriff. So...I'm not sure what that means, but that's what I found.
Dr Filibuster - Nov 25, 2004 12:52 pm (#1290 of 1957)
Not sure how to answer your question because it's a made up location. I say Ottery Saint Catchpole. It won't be Ottery Sreet, Catchpole.
Those kind of odd name places consisting of several words are reasonably common around England, especially if they are tiny places in the middle of nowhere. Sometimes the words get altered or shortened over many centuries. Sometimes the meaning of words have changed completely.
What may have started out as "that valley with those 5 houses built by the Ottery family on the ruins of the old monastary founded by St Catchpole" becomes "Ottery St Catchpole". It may turn into "Ottery" or "Catchpole", infact the locals may already call it Otty or what about Otpole?
Maybe it started out as two places...Ottery by St Catchpole and as the two places merged, so did the name? There's a forum member who orignates from the area JKR grew up in. I think he said there IS a river Ottery(???) So it could be Ottery St Catchpole to distinguish itself from another Catchpole nearby. But like I said, it's a fictional village. I thnk Rowling likes quirky name places.
Do a search on the (sometimes scarily intense but fascinating) Alchemy thread for much more deeper meanings.
Robert Dierken - Nov 25, 2004 5:11 pm (#1291 of 1957)
The river in Ottery Saint Mary is the Otter River.
Potions Mistress - Nov 25, 2004 8:21 pm (#1292 of 1957)
Thank you all! I'm much less confused now. BTW, Ydnam96, the Chamber of Secrets are the forums on Mugglenet.com, which I like to peruse also--very fun and informative. ;-)
~pm
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 26, 2004 4:46 pm (#1293 of 1957)
Sir Tornado - On the "ship" thread you stated that Ron had turned his back on Harry and Hermione. When, Where and Why? Personally I would love to have a friend like Ron who will apparently go to any lengths to support or back up his friends.
Mikie
Sir Tornado - Nov 26, 2004 7:45 pm (#1294 of 1957)
Sir Tornado - On the "ship" thread you stated that Ron had turned his back on Harry and Hermione. When, Where and Why? Personally I would love to have a friend like Ron who will apparently go to any lengths to support or back up his friends. -- Mickycee 3948
Mickey, I never said that Ron turned his back on Hermione. I just said Ron turned his back on Harry, in GoF, just before the First task. Here are my views on that subject:
Post#772
Post#895
My views on the subject are also evident from my posts following the above linked posts.
Thanks!
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 26, 2004 8:18 pm (#1295 of 1957)
Sir Tornado - I understand your reasoning but must state that I believe it is misguided.
Every friendship must occasionally run into rough water. It is just like every marriage, every job or anything in life. Ron was upset at first because he felt Harry had lied to him about the tournament. Then he realized he was wrong but was to proud to admit his mistake and you have to admit that Harry didn't make it easy for him. But after the first event he was there admitted he was wrong and asked for Harry's forgiveness. I still can't find fault with Ron's friendship.
Mikie
Sir Tornado - Nov 27, 2004 4:23 am (#1296 of 1957)
Every friendship must occasionally run into rough water. It is just like every marriage, every job or anything in life. Ron was upset at first because he felt Harry had lied to him about the tournament.
Mickey, that is not true. We know, through Hermione, that Ron did believe Harry. According to Hermione, Ron did that purely out of jealousy. (For referance, read the talk Harry and Hermione had when they take a walk around the lake) That, IMO, is turning your back on your friend, whichever way you see it.
tracie1976 - Nov 27, 2004 4:46 am (#1297 of 1957)
I agree with Tornado. What Ron did was out of jealousy.
Sir Tornado - Nov 27, 2004 5:03 am (#1298 of 1957)
Thank you Tracie
Liz Mann - Nov 27, 2004 11:39 am (#1299 of 1957)
I think Ron has gotten over his jealousy now. I think the moment when it disappeared was in the hospital wing at the end.
Now the burning feeling was in his throat, too. He wished Ron would look away.
I think the reason Ron is staring is because he has never seen Harry cry before and it is just hitting him that Harry doesn't have the glamerous life that he previously thought he had. He no longer has nothing to be jealous of.
the judderman - Nov 27, 2004 3:53 pm (#1300 of 1957)
And i disagree with tornado. Rons initial reactions were due to him feeling that Harry had tricked him. When Hermione tells Harry that the reason for the fight is Ron's jealousy, she means that that is why the fight is being stretched out; that now that he has had time to think about it, Ron realises that Harry couldnt have fooled the age line, but that Ron finds it difficult to admit to his mistake (believing that Harry had lied when he hadnt) and i think that being stubborn and afraid is something that a lot of people can identify with. As i read the books, Ron is trying to edge towards an apology even before the first task, such as during the lesson where he catches Harry's eye and also when he comes down when Harry is talking to Sirius in the fire. (Ron comes down becuase he is worried about Harry. He knows that Harry has a tendency towards midnight wandering and although they have fought and is concerned for his friends well-being - showing how deeply he cares for harry). If Harry had not gone beserk and thrown the badge, i think Ron would have apologised there and then. Also remember that Ron was so upset about the subsequent fight (with the badge) that he didnt come up to bed for hours. think people are way way way way too hard on Ron. Everyone makes bad jusgements. People who apologise for their mistakes deserve forgiveness and Ron has done that and proved to be a loyal friend ever since. Thats enough for me and for Harry.
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Liz Mann - Nov 27, 2004 4:31 pm (#1301 of 1957)
I agree.
Czarina II - Nov 27, 2004 7:03 pm (#1302 of 1957)
Well, Ron was jealous, and so he was logically avoiding Harry so as not to provoke a confrontation. Ron enjoys confronting Hermione because it is fun. (She thinks likewise.) Ron doesn't like confronting his brothers or Harry, so he avoids confrontations with them.
Weeny Owl - Nov 28, 2004 10:23 am (#1303 of 1957)
No relationship is perfect, whether it's with a parent, child, sibling, friend, co-worker, boss, or neighbor.
Adults argue, overreact, get angry over ridiculous things, make huge mistakes, and generally can act quite childish. Emotions are a volatile thing.
Ron and Harry are only fourteen at the beginning of GoF. Knowing quite a few fourteen-year-olds, their behavior is typical. Granted, some fourteen-year-olds might not react that way, but nothing Ron and Harry did or said is out of the ordinary.
Harry forgave Ron. Ron was what Harry would have missed most during the second task. Obviously their friendship can withstand a few bumps along the way.
Sir Tornado - Nov 28, 2004 10:59 am (#1304 of 1957)
Ron enjoys confronting Hermione because it is fun. (She thinks likewise.) -- Czarina II
Czarina, do you have any canon where Hermione enjoys bickering with Ron?
I think you misunderstood me. Here, I am not saying Ron has betrayed Harry or anything. I'm saying that Ron turned his back on Harry when Harry needed him. Which is true. Regardless of the circumstances!
Liz Mann - Nov 28, 2004 12:40 pm (#1305 of 1957)
I guess he kind of did, though perhaps not fully because he did still care about Harry. But he certainly acted as though he had.
wwtMask - Nov 29, 2004 9:14 am (#1306 of 1957)
I think Ron's short estrangement from Harry was the result of both Ron's jealousy and his feeling of betrayal. He was jealous that Harry once again got all the glory. He felt betrayed by Harry because he assumed that Harry himself had figured out how to beat the age line and had purposely kept the information to himself. This would run contrary to their relationship up to that point, in which Harry shared or offered to share everything with Ron. The only thing I can really fault Ron for in this situation is letting his jealousy override his trust in Harry, who had shown nothing but loyalty and honesty to Ron in the three years they'd known one another.
In the long run, it was actually good for them to go through their fight because it made their friendship stronger. I doubt we'll ever see Ron doubt or turn on Harry ever again (unless, of course, Harry steals Hermione away, then it's fair game).
Liz Mann - Nov 29, 2004 10:25 am (#1307 of 1957)
Ooooh, I dread to think what would happen if Harry did that. You shouldn't say things like that, it gets me worried.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 29, 2004 10:33 am (#1308 of 1957)
Maybe Harry wouldn't even have to bother stealing Hermione away. Hermione might... Nah... That's even more disturbing. Harry has already been at odds with Ron through no fault of his own.
Anyway, it wouldn't come to that. It seems far more likely that Harry would realize that (some of) the Slytherins are useful allies, and Ron would disagree. Any feud between Harry and Ron would more likely stem from that dispute than from some love triangle.
But I think that Harry and Ron are done feuding. They both know how much it pained Hermione to see them at each other's throats, and if only because they both love her, they would not continue to be at each other's throats.
wwtMask - Nov 29, 2004 10:57 am (#1309 of 1957)
Not to mention the fact that they love one another. Whether it is platonic or not is for the 'shippers to decide, but there is no doubt that there is a very strong bond there. I agree with Paulus and extend his sentiment to Hermione as well. The three of them have had their quarrels but I don't forsee any real problems between them, especially considering the solidarity they displayed in OotP.
Potions Mistress - Nov 29, 2004 1:27 pm (#1310 of 1957)
I think Paulus is right when he states that if another feud were to arise between Harry and Ron, it would be over Slytherin allies. One thing that does annoy me about Ron is he is prejudice over certain things, such as his attitude toward Slytherins. Granted, his entire family has been in Gryffindor and no doubt that some of that prejudice is ingrained, but he should also be old enough to realize that "Maybe I should try to give this a chance." The same goes with his attitude toward foreigners.
~pm
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Nov 29, 2004 2:27 pm (#1311 of 1957)
I agree Potions Mistress. But I would like to extend that idea to other characters, not just Ron. At first I'm sure the other Weasley's, the other Gryffindors, and even Hermione would be shaky when it came to trusting Slytherins or whatnot. Ron may take the longest to accept it, but I think he will be able to realize that if its important to Harry then he must accept it, so it might not be an actuall feud.
Liz Mann - Nov 29, 2004 4:48 pm (#1312 of 1957)
At the moment Ron is no more biased towards the Slytherins than Harry is. But yes, you're right, I can see Harry getting over that bias more easily than Ron, simply because Ron is more stubbon and doesn't like admitting when he's wrong. Plus, he's grown up in the wizarding world and his prejudice has been ingrained more deeply than Harry's.
Ron's prejudices are not extreme, though. Not like Malfoy's. And he doesn't go out of his way to hurt people he's against. Actually, if you ask me, Ron's prejudices are part of his charm because you just have to sit there shaking your head with a smile on your face and thinking, "Oh Ron!" But I wouldn't like it to be permanant. I'd like to see him realise and correct his faults, just like I'd like to see Harry realise and correct his faults.
wwtMask - I think a non-platonic relationship between Harry and Ron is something that will stay in fanfiction and never appear in canon.
TomProffitt - Nov 29, 2004 7:09 pm (#1313 of 1957)
"Czarina, do you have any canon where Hermione enjoys bickering with Ron?" --- Sir Tornado
I haven't the time to look it up for a page reference, but the example that comes to my mind is in OotP. When Harry asks Hermione why she isn't off skiing she mentions that skiing isn't really her thing, she just went on about how Ron thought it was stupid.
It is because Harry doesn't understand this kind of byplay that it doesn't come across clearly to the reader. People fight for fun? It's beyond Harry.
Potions Mistress - Nov 29, 2004 7:11 pm (#1314 of 1957)
I certainly hope that Ron is able to get over his prejudices--though I wouldn't put it past Hermione to "smack him upside the head" to help speed things along. ;-)
~pm
Sir Tornado - Nov 30, 2004 1:56 am (#1315 of 1957)
Tom, the way I see it, Hermione is always annoyed by Ron's bickering attitude with her. You would understandably ask, then why does she argue with him? IMO, Hermione is someone who can't help correcting others' views without straining herself. That is evident by her earlier attitude with Luna, and, though at the end of OotP, she did let Luna's comment about Snorkacks pass off, it was with considerable difficulty.
The same happens between Hermione and Ron. Ron gets on her nerves often; and is often mistaken, and stubbornly so, about his views towards world, and Hermione can't help correcting him, which leads to arguing between them. It can be clearly observed that Hermione even tries to correct Prof. Snape.
But does this mean Hermione likes to argue with Ron? No. IMO, she must be thinking that it would be better if she utilises that time studying And she would have, but for her tendency to correct others...
wwtMask - Nov 30, 2004 6:01 am (#1316 of 1957)
One interesting thing about Ron is that he's something of a representative for the average wizard or witch. The prejudices he harbors he had to have learned primarily from his family, probably among the most progressive wizards in Britain. Another interesting thing is that, when you think about it, his prejudices are generally based upon common sense, only we, as muggle readers, find it is not so common. Ron, likewise, would probably see our prejudices as being outright ridiculous. The thing about prejudice that's so hard to deal with is that it's not always based upon irrational ideas or feelings. Prejudice against werewolves, vampires, and giants are excellent examples of common sense for wizards, even though we've seen that not all supposedly dangerous creatures are really dangerous.
Does Hermione enjoy arguing with Ron? Well, she certainly enjoys being right and getting people to agree with her. Ron enjoys being right and getting people to agree with him. And they both like to prove each other wrong. I think the answer is obvious :-)
The One - Nov 30, 2004 9:27 am (#1317 of 1957)
wwtMask 11/29/04 9:14am
I doubt we'll ever see Ron doubt or turn on Harry ever again (unless, of course, Harry steals Hermione away, then it's fair game).
It is? If Hermione chose to go for Harry, not for Ron, she is not really his, is she? I agree that it may be difficult, but a real loyal friend should accept it, don't you think? Note that in Star Wars, in the end Han Solo does decleare his willingness to step aside for Luke/Leia. He is verye relieved when that turn out not to be necessary, but he is willing to do it if needed.
I am a bit ammussed by the people that are dead certain that Ron will stay loyal to Harry no matter what, and still are convinced that a Harry/Hermione relationship would spell disaster for the Ron/Harry friendship. This assumptions prove that there are limits to Ron's loyalty, how can you be so dead certain that this limit is the only one?
wwtMask - Nov 30, 2004 10:43 am (#1318 of 1957)
There are a couple differences between Han Solo and Ron. Han is an adult who knows well enough when to give up. Then again, a lot of adults couldn't handle that situation very well either. Han was also quite clearly involved with Leia. Deciding to step aside would be quite a bit more difficult for Han than for Ron. But since Ron seems to think that Hermione is his for the taking, I don't think he'd take it lying down if Harry were to suddenly realize what a good catch she is.
Betrayal seems to be the only realistic way to ruin Ron and Harry's relationship and a H/Hr relationship would definitely be the only way I could ever see Harry betraying Ron. Ron has shown that he can get over being second to Harry in everything and poorer than Harry. But losing Hermione to Harry, after all of the not so subtle prodding of Harry in the direction of Ginny and Cho, would be the last straw. If there are other limitations to Ron's loyalty, I'd like to hear them.
The One - Nov 30, 2004 10:56 am (#1319 of 1957)
Some examples, the potentially most serious first.
Ron being sacked as a prefect, and Harry replacing him? We know that Ron was not to succesfull, while Harry was Dumbledore's prefered choice.
Harry being allowed into classes because of his status of "The boy who lived", while Ron is denied it? (In potions e.g., crushing any plans for Auror.)
Harry being allowed into classes because of better, while Ron is denied it?
Of course other setbacks may add to the insult, even if the do not affect Harry directly. What if, in addition to the things listed above:
Ginny is Qudditch captain above Ron?
Harry reenters the team as the star player, while Ron is sacked as keeper?
If any combination of these events is likely to trigger a really bad response from Ron, thi represents a limit to Ron's loyalty. Whether or not you consider any of these scenarios probable is irrelevant..
Betrayal seems to be the only realistic way to ruin Ron and Harry's relationship and a H/Hr relationship would definitely be the only way I could ever see Harry betraying Ron.
I fail to see that a Harry/Hermione relationship is a betrayal of Ron. This is to completly discard Hermione's feelings and interests. If she chose Harry over Ron, that is not a betrayal.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 30, 2004 11:05 am (#1320 of 1957)
Ron may feel that Hermione has betrayed him, if she chooses Harry over him.
Of course, I'd rather NOT have the Harry Potter books become another Othello...
The One - Nov 30, 2004 11:10 am (#1321 of 1957)
Of course he may, just as he felt betrayed in GoF, despite the fact that he must have understood that is was no rationale reason to feel that way.
What others irrational, uncontrollable reactions can we expect?
wwtMask - Nov 30, 2004 11:30 am (#1322 of 1957)
I think that even Harry, who is as thick as several large print dictionaries stacked on end when it comes to these things, has realized by now that Ron and Hermione have a thing for one another. Even if he doesn't realize that, it's not a prerequisite that you know you're betraying someone for the betrayal to occur.
As I said before, Ron seems to have gotten over having to be second fiddle to Harry. He's had five years to get used to his best friend being a celebrity and getting special treatment. In many ways Ron has already been able to escape Harry's shadow and shine on his own, so I find it hard to believe that, with all the other serious stuff going on, he'll let the same old jealousy creep out.
The One - Nov 30, 2004 12:27 pm (#1323 of 1957)
Well, if Hermione has a thing for Ron, the problem will not rise at all, will it?
But if Hermione have a thing for Harry, not for Ron, that is her choice isn't it? Harry betraying Ron does not enter the equation at all.
The One - Nov 30, 2004 12:39 pm (#1324 of 1957)
As I said before, Ron seems to have gotten over having to be second fiddle to Harry.
He have not, not quite:
GoF chapther 22
"Listen, you're not going to have any trouble. You're a champion. You've just beaten a Hungarian Horntail. I bet they'll be queuing up to go with you."
In tribute to their recently repaired friendship, Ron had kept the bitterness in his voice to a bare minimum. Moreover, to Harry's amazement, he turned out to be quite right.
Ron is bitter, he is able to control it, but the bitternes is there.
And in OotP ch 9
'I knew it!' yelled Ron, punching the air. 'You always get away with stuff!'
He was celebrating the outcome, yes, but still this is a strange thing to say to a friend that has been exposed to one attempted murder and because of that an extremly unfair trial.
Harry, the very special one, still claims his part of Ron's mind.
Liz Mann - Nov 30, 2004 2:40 pm (#1325 of 1957)
I fail to see that a Harry/Hermione relationship is a betrayal of Ron. This is to completly discard Hermione's feelings and interests. If she chose Harry over Ron, that is not a betrayal. - The One
Hermione's decision that she likes Harry rather than Ron is not a betrayal. Harry accepting Hermione's feelings and returning them wouldn't even be a betrayal. Harry acting on those feelings is the part that Ron would see as being disloyal. Especially if Ron tells Harry outright how he feels about Hermione and then Harry gets together with her. Ron would probably get over it eventually (especially if there is another Harry-almost-dies incident to remind him that he still cares about Harry) and decide to do the Han Solo thing but his initial response would be hurt and betrayed.
Sir Tornado - Nov 30, 2004 7:48 pm (#1326 of 1957)
I agree with Onesy and Liz here.
Very well argued Jarand!
Denise P. - Nov 30, 2004 7:51 pm (#1327 of 1957)
Please take the relationship discussion over to the 'ship thread. This thread is to discuss Ron specifically
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 30, 2004 8:02 pm (#1328 of 1957)
I don't believe that either Harry, Ron or Hermione has expressed any interest other than friendship to each other. I believe until their interaction proceeds to the point where they can be said to be more than just friends we have no possible idea how the outside party will feel. I am afraid that the party that most of you seem to believe Hermione will join hands with may not be around to see the end of the series and could therefore make this discussion a very mute point. Just my 2 knuts!
Mikie
Liz Mann - Dec 1, 2004 1:29 pm (#1329 of 1957)
Do you think Ron will still be on the Quiddich team in the next book?
MickeyCee3948 - Dec 1, 2004 1:32 pm (#1330 of 1957)
I believe it is Ron's destiny to be the captain of the Quiddich team before the end of book 7. But I don't think he will make it out of the final battle.
Mikie
Liz Mann - Dec 1, 2004 1:40 pm (#1331 of 1957)
If Ron becomes Quiddich captain over Harry then that could be another thing that strains their friendship, at least temporarily. Harry's not really very rational at the moment. It took him a little while in book five to realise that Ron being made Prefect over him wasn't Ron's fault. And that was over something that doesn't really mean all that much to him. Quiddich is Harry's passion and Ron has only been on the team for a year.
Personally I don't think Ron is going to be made Captain after having only one sucessful game. More likely, if Ron does get made Captain, it will be in book seven. In book six Harry will be Captain but it could be too much pressure and hassle for him (like Dumbledore thought the Prefect position would be) and he retires at the end of the book. Then Ron gets made Captain over all the other players.
The One - Dec 1, 2004 2:01 pm (#1332 of 1957)
I just want to point out that Harry, unlike Ron, never has behaved badly due to jealosy. He has acted stupid once, when he he for some time failed to exploit Cederic's hint in GoF.
Ron has so far behaved badly twice due to jealosy.
I doubt very much that Harry will be jealos over such an issue. Not if Ron turns out to be a good captain at least.
I also doubt very much that Ron will be made captain at all, to me he does not seem to be a leader.
MickeyCee3948- Dec 1, 2004 2:50 pm (#1333 of 1957)
Since the majority of the team has not played hardly any games at all, you could be right and Harry could be made captain but I can't see him having the time to devote to it what with all of the extra studies that will be required of him. I also doubt that Harry would be jealous, I think after OotP that Harry is going to hold his emotions very close to the vest. Preferrably a spell-proof vest.
Mikie
Liz Mann - Dec 1, 2004 3:37 pm (#1334 of 1957)
He might not act on his emotions but that doesn't mean he's not feeling them. He can't stop himself from doing that.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 1, 2004 3:42 pm (#1335 of 1957)
This may be wishfull thinking on my part, but I think we should give Ron more credit. Yes he has acted jealous and immature in many situations, but at this point I don't think there is anything more that would put a strain on his friendship with Harry. After all this prophesy business gets out and the trio get a grasp on the situation, they will be very supportive of each other. Also, Harry has begun to distance himself from Ron and Hermione, so when the relationship forms between them, I think Harry will be happy, knowing that they will take care of each other so he doesn't have to.(that idea sounds sketchy, but I do believe that Harry feels like he has to protect his friends).
My point is bascially that I don't see any future conflict developing between Ron and Harry beyond basic teenage petty garbage.
The One - Dec 1, 2004 3:47 pm (#1336 of 1957)
I see some sort of conflict between Harry and Ron as unavoidable. And while the conflict my not be disastrous, already in OotP I see Ron, not Harry, as the one distancing himself from the trio.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 1, 2004 3:50 pm (#1337 of 1957)
How so?
TomProffitt - Dec 1, 2004 5:20 pm (#1338 of 1957)
I remember that when I was 13 or 14 I had just a few close friends and we did everything together.
When I was 15 & 16 I had more friends, many not quite so close, and we started dating with out jealousy (or not much). My first girl friends were girls I dated just to be dating with out really worrying how I ended up with them in the first place or where wee might go with it.
When I was 17 & 18 I had more friends and a wider variety of relationships with them. I didn't mind that my friends spent more time with girl friends, I was doing that now myself. And having better relationships with them.
I think as the trio continues to grow their circle of friends will expand. Much as it started to expand in OotP. They will spend less time with each other and more time with other friends, yet still remain as close and loyal as always.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 1, 2004 6:54 pm (#1339 of 1957)
Ron was playing Quidditch while Harry and Hermione were watching from the stands, and then they left... He got separated from Harry and Hermione during the Battle of Mysteries...
Off hand I can't think of any other way in which Ron is distancing himself from Harry and Hermione. And neither of those events were Ron's doing anyway.
I can sort of see Harry distancing himself from Ron, too, but not from Hermione.
Except when he went to contemplate his destiny... but he's going to reveal that to his closest friends anyway. Who is closer to him than Ron and Hermione? Whom would he tell first about the prophecy?
Sir Tornado - Dec 1, 2004 11:15 pm (#1340 of 1957)
Tell them both together...
Personally, I feel Ron doesn't have the leadership qualities to be made the captain just yet. It will, undoubtedly be Katie in Book 6 and Ginny in Book 7 who will be the captains.
Matilda Jones: I don't really have to say I disagree with you there. Harry's strength so far has been his friends. So, it is very unlikely that he will distance himself from them. For a short term, yes, it is likely. But, HP books do have a very important message of Friendship. I see it highly unlikely that Harry will not be with Ron and Hermione. Who else has he got?
The One - Dec 2, 2004 11:54 am (#1341 of 1957)
Matilda Jones 12/1/04 3:50pm
How so?
You see it mostly in the way he backs of from most important discussions and the way he does not have the nerve to tell Harry and Hermione that he wants to try out for keeper.
There also are two places where Hermione and Harry neglect to tell Ron about things that happens, for no apperent reason whatsoever, they do not seem to regard it as important to tell him.
As for some sort of conflict being unavoidable, jealosy and inferority complexes are a very important part of who Ron is. The very first time we meet Ron, at the train in PS, we learn both that he has issues about comming from a family with little gold, and that he has issues about being overshadowed. I do not think that the fighting in GoF is the last we see of that.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 2, 2004 11:57 am (#1342 of 1957)
I agree Tornedo, Harry does need his friends, but, he has begun to distance himself whether intentionally or not. He will eventually realize that he needs them, but I think it will get worse before it gets better.
Potions Mistress - Dec 2, 2004 12:23 pm (#1343 of 1957)
I agree that Harry has begun distancing himself from Ron and Hermione, but this is because he is in a totally different position than they are. Harry is the "Boy Who Lived," who saved the WW once from LV and now has to do it again (and possibly die in that attempt.) I do think in the end, Ron and Hermione will be there for him, but I also think that this distancing is part of the natural progression of things so far.
~pm
The One - Dec 2, 2004 12:46 pm (#1344 of 1957)
When I say that a conflict is unavoidable, I do not mean that it needs to be a major fallout.
I envisage Ron searching out other friends and other activities, in order not to spend all his time in company that he feels inferior to.
He needs to spend some time away from "The boy who lived" and "The cleverest which of her age" in order to find his own place in life. As by now, he is defined by his friendship with the boy that defeats Voldemort over and over again and won the three-wizard cup, and the girl who aces in every subject, captures and blackmails reporters and organize illegal DADA clubs. He himself has not really done anything great since he won the chess game in PS.
Harry was hunted by a lot of girls prior to the Yule Ball. (Only not by the one he wanted.). Hermione was good enough to get a date with the hottest boy at the school, while, in JKR's own word, "Ron was aiming to high" when asking Fleur. Hermione was good enough for the stars, Ron was not.
Also in the friendship department he looses: When Harry is appointed the 4th Tri-wizard champion Ron turns his back to him, while Hermione is there with her stack of toast.
Due to her abilities, throughout OotP Hermione is also a far more useful friend than Ron, as shown by the DA and the interview.
Ron feels inferior, to both Harry and Hermione, and he hates it. Thus he is afraid that his friend, the "Great Seeker Star of the team," will find his wish to play keeper laughable. He feel that he has little to contribute with in discussions, and hence tends to pull out when things get heated.
The twins made him loose confidence, but so does the trio.
That is the reason I feel that he is withdrawing, and I expect him to do so also in the HBP.
TomProffitt - Dec 2, 2004 12:46 pm (#1345 of 1957)
I don't think Harry is distancing himself from Ron and Hermione at all. I think it's a normal part of growing up and growing into adulthood for people to acquire more more friends and broader interests.
Year six will see them with three different career tracks. If Harry dates again I doubt he'll make the same mistakes he made with Cho, he'll devote more time to his new girl.
Then there's quidditch, prefect duties, and so on.
I don't think spending less time together means the trio has broken apart and the friends have distanced themselves.
MickeyCee3948 - Dec 2, 2004 12:52 pm (#1346 of 1957)
I believe that Harry may be unconsciously distancing himself from Ron and Hermione due to what he expects to happen in the future. By putting his best friends closest to him. He is afraid of taking the chance of losing one or both of them.
While I think his thinking is faulty on those lines, he doesn't realize it yet. I think it may take Ron and Hermione pulling him off to the side and demanding to know what is going on with him. He may then realize that perhaps they are better off closer to him where he can assist them with anything that presents itself.
Mikie
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 3, 2004 7:52 am (#1347 of 1957)
Exactly Mikie. Thats what I meant.
Sir Tornado - Dec 3, 2004 10:53 am (#1348 of 1957)
I don't think he's distancing himself from any one as of yet. This whole distancing from friends thing is the creation of FanFic writers... IMO atleast.
mollis - Dec 3, 2004 11:00 am (#1349 of 1957)
I don't think that Harry is distancing himself on purpose. When something very bad happens in your life, sometimes it is easier to talk to someone you don't know very well than it is to talk to your best friends. In my experience it is harder to talk to your close friends because you know that they understand what this means for you. They truly understand your pain. Someone who is not a close friend can empathize and talk with you about it and for some reason it is not as difficult. To be honest I don't really understand why, but I really do think that is the case with more than just me.
Harry may talk to someone other than Ron and Hermione about Sirius, the prophecy, etc., but before too long, he will open up to those that are closest to him. And it will be with their help that he will fight Voldy.
Liz Mann - Dec 3, 2004 12:58 pm (#1350 of 1957)
I think that if Harry does distance himself from Ron and Hermione in book six, it will be because he is worried that their being friends with him could lead them to their deaths and he wants to distance himself emotionally from them so that if it does happen it won't hurt so much.
As for Ron distancing himself, I don't think so. I can see a confrontation happening between himself and Harry, though. There are a number of things that could set one off. However, I think more likely is a Harry-Hermione confrontation because we haven't had one of those yet.
I agree.
Czarina II - Nov 27, 2004 7:03 pm (#1302 of 1957)
Well, Ron was jealous, and so he was logically avoiding Harry so as not to provoke a confrontation. Ron enjoys confronting Hermione because it is fun. (She thinks likewise.) Ron doesn't like confronting his brothers or Harry, so he avoids confrontations with them.
Weeny Owl - Nov 28, 2004 10:23 am (#1303 of 1957)
No relationship is perfect, whether it's with a parent, child, sibling, friend, co-worker, boss, or neighbor.
Adults argue, overreact, get angry over ridiculous things, make huge mistakes, and generally can act quite childish. Emotions are a volatile thing.
Ron and Harry are only fourteen at the beginning of GoF. Knowing quite a few fourteen-year-olds, their behavior is typical. Granted, some fourteen-year-olds might not react that way, but nothing Ron and Harry did or said is out of the ordinary.
Harry forgave Ron. Ron was what Harry would have missed most during the second task. Obviously their friendship can withstand a few bumps along the way.
Sir Tornado - Nov 28, 2004 10:59 am (#1304 of 1957)
Ron enjoys confronting Hermione because it is fun. (She thinks likewise.) -- Czarina II
Czarina, do you have any canon where Hermione enjoys bickering with Ron?
I think you misunderstood me. Here, I am not saying Ron has betrayed Harry or anything. I'm saying that Ron turned his back on Harry when Harry needed him. Which is true. Regardless of the circumstances!
Liz Mann - Nov 28, 2004 12:40 pm (#1305 of 1957)
I guess he kind of did, though perhaps not fully because he did still care about Harry. But he certainly acted as though he had.
wwtMask - Nov 29, 2004 9:14 am (#1306 of 1957)
I think Ron's short estrangement from Harry was the result of both Ron's jealousy and his feeling of betrayal. He was jealous that Harry once again got all the glory. He felt betrayed by Harry because he assumed that Harry himself had figured out how to beat the age line and had purposely kept the information to himself. This would run contrary to their relationship up to that point, in which Harry shared or offered to share everything with Ron. The only thing I can really fault Ron for in this situation is letting his jealousy override his trust in Harry, who had shown nothing but loyalty and honesty to Ron in the three years they'd known one another.
In the long run, it was actually good for them to go through their fight because it made their friendship stronger. I doubt we'll ever see Ron doubt or turn on Harry ever again (unless, of course, Harry steals Hermione away, then it's fair game).
Liz Mann - Nov 29, 2004 10:25 am (#1307 of 1957)
Ooooh, I dread to think what would happen if Harry did that. You shouldn't say things like that, it gets me worried.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 29, 2004 10:33 am (#1308 of 1957)
Maybe Harry wouldn't even have to bother stealing Hermione away. Hermione might... Nah... That's even more disturbing. Harry has already been at odds with Ron through no fault of his own.
Anyway, it wouldn't come to that. It seems far more likely that Harry would realize that (some of) the Slytherins are useful allies, and Ron would disagree. Any feud between Harry and Ron would more likely stem from that dispute than from some love triangle.
But I think that Harry and Ron are done feuding. They both know how much it pained Hermione to see them at each other's throats, and if only because they both love her, they would not continue to be at each other's throats.
wwtMask - Nov 29, 2004 10:57 am (#1309 of 1957)
Not to mention the fact that they love one another. Whether it is platonic or not is for the 'shippers to decide, but there is no doubt that there is a very strong bond there. I agree with Paulus and extend his sentiment to Hermione as well. The three of them have had their quarrels but I don't forsee any real problems between them, especially considering the solidarity they displayed in OotP.
Potions Mistress - Nov 29, 2004 1:27 pm (#1310 of 1957)
I think Paulus is right when he states that if another feud were to arise between Harry and Ron, it would be over Slytherin allies. One thing that does annoy me about Ron is he is prejudice over certain things, such as his attitude toward Slytherins. Granted, his entire family has been in Gryffindor and no doubt that some of that prejudice is ingrained, but he should also be old enough to realize that "Maybe I should try to give this a chance." The same goes with his attitude toward foreigners.
~pm
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Nov 29, 2004 2:27 pm (#1311 of 1957)
I agree Potions Mistress. But I would like to extend that idea to other characters, not just Ron. At first I'm sure the other Weasley's, the other Gryffindors, and even Hermione would be shaky when it came to trusting Slytherins or whatnot. Ron may take the longest to accept it, but I think he will be able to realize that if its important to Harry then he must accept it, so it might not be an actuall feud.
Liz Mann - Nov 29, 2004 4:48 pm (#1312 of 1957)
At the moment Ron is no more biased towards the Slytherins than Harry is. But yes, you're right, I can see Harry getting over that bias more easily than Ron, simply because Ron is more stubbon and doesn't like admitting when he's wrong. Plus, he's grown up in the wizarding world and his prejudice has been ingrained more deeply than Harry's.
Ron's prejudices are not extreme, though. Not like Malfoy's. And he doesn't go out of his way to hurt people he's against. Actually, if you ask me, Ron's prejudices are part of his charm because you just have to sit there shaking your head with a smile on your face and thinking, "Oh Ron!" But I wouldn't like it to be permanant. I'd like to see him realise and correct his faults, just like I'd like to see Harry realise and correct his faults.
wwtMask - I think a non-platonic relationship between Harry and Ron is something that will stay in fanfiction and never appear in canon.
TomProffitt - Nov 29, 2004 7:09 pm (#1313 of 1957)
"Czarina, do you have any canon where Hermione enjoys bickering with Ron?" --- Sir Tornado
I haven't the time to look it up for a page reference, but the example that comes to my mind is in OotP. When Harry asks Hermione why she isn't off skiing she mentions that skiing isn't really her thing, she just went on about how Ron thought it was stupid.
It is because Harry doesn't understand this kind of byplay that it doesn't come across clearly to the reader. People fight for fun? It's beyond Harry.
Potions Mistress - Nov 29, 2004 7:11 pm (#1314 of 1957)
I certainly hope that Ron is able to get over his prejudices--though I wouldn't put it past Hermione to "smack him upside the head" to help speed things along. ;-)
~pm
Sir Tornado - Nov 30, 2004 1:56 am (#1315 of 1957)
Tom, the way I see it, Hermione is always annoyed by Ron's bickering attitude with her. You would understandably ask, then why does she argue with him? IMO, Hermione is someone who can't help correcting others' views without straining herself. That is evident by her earlier attitude with Luna, and, though at the end of OotP, she did let Luna's comment about Snorkacks pass off, it was with considerable difficulty.
The same happens between Hermione and Ron. Ron gets on her nerves often; and is often mistaken, and stubbornly so, about his views towards world, and Hermione can't help correcting him, which leads to arguing between them. It can be clearly observed that Hermione even tries to correct Prof. Snape.
But does this mean Hermione likes to argue with Ron? No. IMO, she must be thinking that it would be better if she utilises that time studying And she would have, but for her tendency to correct others...
wwtMask - Nov 30, 2004 6:01 am (#1316 of 1957)
One interesting thing about Ron is that he's something of a representative for the average wizard or witch. The prejudices he harbors he had to have learned primarily from his family, probably among the most progressive wizards in Britain. Another interesting thing is that, when you think about it, his prejudices are generally based upon common sense, only we, as muggle readers, find it is not so common. Ron, likewise, would probably see our prejudices as being outright ridiculous. The thing about prejudice that's so hard to deal with is that it's not always based upon irrational ideas or feelings. Prejudice against werewolves, vampires, and giants are excellent examples of common sense for wizards, even though we've seen that not all supposedly dangerous creatures are really dangerous.
Does Hermione enjoy arguing with Ron? Well, she certainly enjoys being right and getting people to agree with her. Ron enjoys being right and getting people to agree with him. And they both like to prove each other wrong. I think the answer is obvious :-)
The One - Nov 30, 2004 9:27 am (#1317 of 1957)
wwtMask 11/29/04 9:14am
I doubt we'll ever see Ron doubt or turn on Harry ever again (unless, of course, Harry steals Hermione away, then it's fair game).
It is? If Hermione chose to go for Harry, not for Ron, she is not really his, is she? I agree that it may be difficult, but a real loyal friend should accept it, don't you think? Note that in Star Wars, in the end Han Solo does decleare his willingness to step aside for Luke/Leia. He is verye relieved when that turn out not to be necessary, but he is willing to do it if needed.
I am a bit ammussed by the people that are dead certain that Ron will stay loyal to Harry no matter what, and still are convinced that a Harry/Hermione relationship would spell disaster for the Ron/Harry friendship. This assumptions prove that there are limits to Ron's loyalty, how can you be so dead certain that this limit is the only one?
wwtMask - Nov 30, 2004 10:43 am (#1318 of 1957)
There are a couple differences between Han Solo and Ron. Han is an adult who knows well enough when to give up. Then again, a lot of adults couldn't handle that situation very well either. Han was also quite clearly involved with Leia. Deciding to step aside would be quite a bit more difficult for Han than for Ron. But since Ron seems to think that Hermione is his for the taking, I don't think he'd take it lying down if Harry were to suddenly realize what a good catch she is.
Betrayal seems to be the only realistic way to ruin Ron and Harry's relationship and a H/Hr relationship would definitely be the only way I could ever see Harry betraying Ron. Ron has shown that he can get over being second to Harry in everything and poorer than Harry. But losing Hermione to Harry, after all of the not so subtle prodding of Harry in the direction of Ginny and Cho, would be the last straw. If there are other limitations to Ron's loyalty, I'd like to hear them.
The One - Nov 30, 2004 10:56 am (#1319 of 1957)
Some examples, the potentially most serious first.
Ron being sacked as a prefect, and Harry replacing him? We know that Ron was not to succesfull, while Harry was Dumbledore's prefered choice.
Harry being allowed into classes because of his status of "The boy who lived", while Ron is denied it? (In potions e.g., crushing any plans for Auror.)
Harry being allowed into classes because of better, while Ron is denied it?
Of course other setbacks may add to the insult, even if the do not affect Harry directly. What if, in addition to the things listed above:
Ginny is Qudditch captain above Ron?
Harry reenters the team as the star player, while Ron is sacked as keeper?
If any combination of these events is likely to trigger a really bad response from Ron, thi represents a limit to Ron's loyalty. Whether or not you consider any of these scenarios probable is irrelevant..
Betrayal seems to be the only realistic way to ruin Ron and Harry's relationship and a H/Hr relationship would definitely be the only way I could ever see Harry betraying Ron.
I fail to see that a Harry/Hermione relationship is a betrayal of Ron. This is to completly discard Hermione's feelings and interests. If she chose Harry over Ron, that is not a betrayal.
Paulus Maximus - Nov 30, 2004 11:05 am (#1320 of 1957)
Ron may feel that Hermione has betrayed him, if she chooses Harry over him.
Of course, I'd rather NOT have the Harry Potter books become another Othello...
The One - Nov 30, 2004 11:10 am (#1321 of 1957)
Of course he may, just as he felt betrayed in GoF, despite the fact that he must have understood that is was no rationale reason to feel that way.
What others irrational, uncontrollable reactions can we expect?
wwtMask - Nov 30, 2004 11:30 am (#1322 of 1957)
I think that even Harry, who is as thick as several large print dictionaries stacked on end when it comes to these things, has realized by now that Ron and Hermione have a thing for one another. Even if he doesn't realize that, it's not a prerequisite that you know you're betraying someone for the betrayal to occur.
As I said before, Ron seems to have gotten over having to be second fiddle to Harry. He's had five years to get used to his best friend being a celebrity and getting special treatment. In many ways Ron has already been able to escape Harry's shadow and shine on his own, so I find it hard to believe that, with all the other serious stuff going on, he'll let the same old jealousy creep out.
The One - Nov 30, 2004 12:27 pm (#1323 of 1957)
Well, if Hermione has a thing for Ron, the problem will not rise at all, will it?
But if Hermione have a thing for Harry, not for Ron, that is her choice isn't it? Harry betraying Ron does not enter the equation at all.
The One - Nov 30, 2004 12:39 pm (#1324 of 1957)
As I said before, Ron seems to have gotten over having to be second fiddle to Harry.
He have not, not quite:
GoF chapther 22
"Listen, you're not going to have any trouble. You're a champion. You've just beaten a Hungarian Horntail. I bet they'll be queuing up to go with you."
In tribute to their recently repaired friendship, Ron had kept the bitterness in his voice to a bare minimum. Moreover, to Harry's amazement, he turned out to be quite right.
Ron is bitter, he is able to control it, but the bitternes is there.
And in OotP ch 9
'I knew it!' yelled Ron, punching the air. 'You always get away with stuff!'
He was celebrating the outcome, yes, but still this is a strange thing to say to a friend that has been exposed to one attempted murder and because of that an extremly unfair trial.
Harry, the very special one, still claims his part of Ron's mind.
Liz Mann - Nov 30, 2004 2:40 pm (#1325 of 1957)
I fail to see that a Harry/Hermione relationship is a betrayal of Ron. This is to completly discard Hermione's feelings and interests. If she chose Harry over Ron, that is not a betrayal. - The One
Hermione's decision that she likes Harry rather than Ron is not a betrayal. Harry accepting Hermione's feelings and returning them wouldn't even be a betrayal. Harry acting on those feelings is the part that Ron would see as being disloyal. Especially if Ron tells Harry outright how he feels about Hermione and then Harry gets together with her. Ron would probably get over it eventually (especially if there is another Harry-almost-dies incident to remind him that he still cares about Harry) and decide to do the Han Solo thing but his initial response would be hurt and betrayed.
Sir Tornado - Nov 30, 2004 7:48 pm (#1326 of 1957)
I agree with Onesy and Liz here.
Very well argued Jarand!
Denise P. - Nov 30, 2004 7:51 pm (#1327 of 1957)
Please take the relationship discussion over to the 'ship thread. This thread is to discuss Ron specifically
MickeyCee3948 - Nov 30, 2004 8:02 pm (#1328 of 1957)
I don't believe that either Harry, Ron or Hermione has expressed any interest other than friendship to each other. I believe until their interaction proceeds to the point where they can be said to be more than just friends we have no possible idea how the outside party will feel. I am afraid that the party that most of you seem to believe Hermione will join hands with may not be around to see the end of the series and could therefore make this discussion a very mute point. Just my 2 knuts!
Mikie
Liz Mann - Dec 1, 2004 1:29 pm (#1329 of 1957)
Do you think Ron will still be on the Quiddich team in the next book?
MickeyCee3948 - Dec 1, 2004 1:32 pm (#1330 of 1957)
I believe it is Ron's destiny to be the captain of the Quiddich team before the end of book 7. But I don't think he will make it out of the final battle.
Mikie
Liz Mann - Dec 1, 2004 1:40 pm (#1331 of 1957)
If Ron becomes Quiddich captain over Harry then that could be another thing that strains their friendship, at least temporarily. Harry's not really very rational at the moment. It took him a little while in book five to realise that Ron being made Prefect over him wasn't Ron's fault. And that was over something that doesn't really mean all that much to him. Quiddich is Harry's passion and Ron has only been on the team for a year.
Personally I don't think Ron is going to be made Captain after having only one sucessful game. More likely, if Ron does get made Captain, it will be in book seven. In book six Harry will be Captain but it could be too much pressure and hassle for him (like Dumbledore thought the Prefect position would be) and he retires at the end of the book. Then Ron gets made Captain over all the other players.
The One - Dec 1, 2004 2:01 pm (#1332 of 1957)
I just want to point out that Harry, unlike Ron, never has behaved badly due to jealosy. He has acted stupid once, when he he for some time failed to exploit Cederic's hint in GoF.
Ron has so far behaved badly twice due to jealosy.
I doubt very much that Harry will be jealos over such an issue. Not if Ron turns out to be a good captain at least.
I also doubt very much that Ron will be made captain at all, to me he does not seem to be a leader.
MickeyCee3948- Dec 1, 2004 2:50 pm (#1333 of 1957)
Since the majority of the team has not played hardly any games at all, you could be right and Harry could be made captain but I can't see him having the time to devote to it what with all of the extra studies that will be required of him. I also doubt that Harry would be jealous, I think after OotP that Harry is going to hold his emotions very close to the vest. Preferrably a spell-proof vest.
Mikie
Liz Mann - Dec 1, 2004 3:37 pm (#1334 of 1957)
He might not act on his emotions but that doesn't mean he's not feeling them. He can't stop himself from doing that.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 1, 2004 3:42 pm (#1335 of 1957)
This may be wishfull thinking on my part, but I think we should give Ron more credit. Yes he has acted jealous and immature in many situations, but at this point I don't think there is anything more that would put a strain on his friendship with Harry. After all this prophesy business gets out and the trio get a grasp on the situation, they will be very supportive of each other. Also, Harry has begun to distance himself from Ron and Hermione, so when the relationship forms between them, I think Harry will be happy, knowing that they will take care of each other so he doesn't have to.(that idea sounds sketchy, but I do believe that Harry feels like he has to protect his friends).
My point is bascially that I don't see any future conflict developing between Ron and Harry beyond basic teenage petty garbage.
The One - Dec 1, 2004 3:47 pm (#1336 of 1957)
I see some sort of conflict between Harry and Ron as unavoidable. And while the conflict my not be disastrous, already in OotP I see Ron, not Harry, as the one distancing himself from the trio.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 1, 2004 3:50 pm (#1337 of 1957)
How so?
TomProffitt - Dec 1, 2004 5:20 pm (#1338 of 1957)
I remember that when I was 13 or 14 I had just a few close friends and we did everything together.
When I was 15 & 16 I had more friends, many not quite so close, and we started dating with out jealousy (or not much). My first girl friends were girls I dated just to be dating with out really worrying how I ended up with them in the first place or where wee might go with it.
When I was 17 & 18 I had more friends and a wider variety of relationships with them. I didn't mind that my friends spent more time with girl friends, I was doing that now myself. And having better relationships with them.
I think as the trio continues to grow their circle of friends will expand. Much as it started to expand in OotP. They will spend less time with each other and more time with other friends, yet still remain as close and loyal as always.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 1, 2004 6:54 pm (#1339 of 1957)
Ron was playing Quidditch while Harry and Hermione were watching from the stands, and then they left... He got separated from Harry and Hermione during the Battle of Mysteries...
Off hand I can't think of any other way in which Ron is distancing himself from Harry and Hermione. And neither of those events were Ron's doing anyway.
I can sort of see Harry distancing himself from Ron, too, but not from Hermione.
Except when he went to contemplate his destiny... but he's going to reveal that to his closest friends anyway. Who is closer to him than Ron and Hermione? Whom would he tell first about the prophecy?
Sir Tornado - Dec 1, 2004 11:15 pm (#1340 of 1957)
Tell them both together...
Personally, I feel Ron doesn't have the leadership qualities to be made the captain just yet. It will, undoubtedly be Katie in Book 6 and Ginny in Book 7 who will be the captains.
Matilda Jones: I don't really have to say I disagree with you there. Harry's strength so far has been his friends. So, it is very unlikely that he will distance himself from them. For a short term, yes, it is likely. But, HP books do have a very important message of Friendship. I see it highly unlikely that Harry will not be with Ron and Hermione. Who else has he got?
The One - Dec 2, 2004 11:54 am (#1341 of 1957)
Matilda Jones 12/1/04 3:50pm
How so?
You see it mostly in the way he backs of from most important discussions and the way he does not have the nerve to tell Harry and Hermione that he wants to try out for keeper.
There also are two places where Hermione and Harry neglect to tell Ron about things that happens, for no apperent reason whatsoever, they do not seem to regard it as important to tell him.
As for some sort of conflict being unavoidable, jealosy and inferority complexes are a very important part of who Ron is. The very first time we meet Ron, at the train in PS, we learn both that he has issues about comming from a family with little gold, and that he has issues about being overshadowed. I do not think that the fighting in GoF is the last we see of that.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 2, 2004 11:57 am (#1342 of 1957)
I agree Tornedo, Harry does need his friends, but, he has begun to distance himself whether intentionally or not. He will eventually realize that he needs them, but I think it will get worse before it gets better.
Potions Mistress - Dec 2, 2004 12:23 pm (#1343 of 1957)
I agree that Harry has begun distancing himself from Ron and Hermione, but this is because he is in a totally different position than they are. Harry is the "Boy Who Lived," who saved the WW once from LV and now has to do it again (and possibly die in that attempt.) I do think in the end, Ron and Hermione will be there for him, but I also think that this distancing is part of the natural progression of things so far.
~pm
The One - Dec 2, 2004 12:46 pm (#1344 of 1957)
When I say that a conflict is unavoidable, I do not mean that it needs to be a major fallout.
I envisage Ron searching out other friends and other activities, in order not to spend all his time in company that he feels inferior to.
He needs to spend some time away from "The boy who lived" and "The cleverest which of her age" in order to find his own place in life. As by now, he is defined by his friendship with the boy that defeats Voldemort over and over again and won the three-wizard cup, and the girl who aces in every subject, captures and blackmails reporters and organize illegal DADA clubs. He himself has not really done anything great since he won the chess game in PS.
Harry was hunted by a lot of girls prior to the Yule Ball. (Only not by the one he wanted.). Hermione was good enough to get a date with the hottest boy at the school, while, in JKR's own word, "Ron was aiming to high" when asking Fleur. Hermione was good enough for the stars, Ron was not.
Also in the friendship department he looses: When Harry is appointed the 4th Tri-wizard champion Ron turns his back to him, while Hermione is there with her stack of toast.
Due to her abilities, throughout OotP Hermione is also a far more useful friend than Ron, as shown by the DA and the interview.
Ron feels inferior, to both Harry and Hermione, and he hates it. Thus he is afraid that his friend, the "Great Seeker Star of the team," will find his wish to play keeper laughable. He feel that he has little to contribute with in discussions, and hence tends to pull out when things get heated.
The twins made him loose confidence, but so does the trio.
That is the reason I feel that he is withdrawing, and I expect him to do so also in the HBP.
TomProffitt - Dec 2, 2004 12:46 pm (#1345 of 1957)
I don't think Harry is distancing himself from Ron and Hermione at all. I think it's a normal part of growing up and growing into adulthood for people to acquire more more friends and broader interests.
Year six will see them with three different career tracks. If Harry dates again I doubt he'll make the same mistakes he made with Cho, he'll devote more time to his new girl.
Then there's quidditch, prefect duties, and so on.
I don't think spending less time together means the trio has broken apart and the friends have distanced themselves.
MickeyCee3948 - Dec 2, 2004 12:52 pm (#1346 of 1957)
I believe that Harry may be unconsciously distancing himself from Ron and Hermione due to what he expects to happen in the future. By putting his best friends closest to him. He is afraid of taking the chance of losing one or both of them.
While I think his thinking is faulty on those lines, he doesn't realize it yet. I think it may take Ron and Hermione pulling him off to the side and demanding to know what is going on with him. He may then realize that perhaps they are better off closer to him where he can assist them with anything that presents itself.
Mikie
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 3, 2004 7:52 am (#1347 of 1957)
Exactly Mikie. Thats what I meant.
Sir Tornado - Dec 3, 2004 10:53 am (#1348 of 1957)
I don't think he's distancing himself from any one as of yet. This whole distancing from friends thing is the creation of FanFic writers... IMO atleast.
mollis - Dec 3, 2004 11:00 am (#1349 of 1957)
I don't think that Harry is distancing himself on purpose. When something very bad happens in your life, sometimes it is easier to talk to someone you don't know very well than it is to talk to your best friends. In my experience it is harder to talk to your close friends because you know that they understand what this means for you. They truly understand your pain. Someone who is not a close friend can empathize and talk with you about it and for some reason it is not as difficult. To be honest I don't really understand why, but I really do think that is the case with more than just me.
Harry may talk to someone other than Ron and Hermione about Sirius, the prophecy, etc., but before too long, he will open up to those that are closest to him. And it will be with their help that he will fight Voldy.
Liz Mann - Dec 3, 2004 12:58 pm (#1350 of 1957)
I think that if Harry does distance himself from Ron and Hermione in book six, it will be because he is worried that their being friends with him could lead them to their deaths and he wants to distance himself emotionally from them so that if it does happen it won't hurt so much.
As for Ron distancing himself, I don't think so. I can see a confrontation happening between himself and Harry, though. There are a number of things that could set one off. However, I think more likely is a Harry-Hermione confrontation because we haven't had one of those yet.
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TomProffitt - Dec 3, 2004 1:01 pm (#1351 of 1957)
Frankly, not only do I not see the trio being distanced from each other, I see them getting closer. The individual strength of character of each of them will bring them closer in this time of crisis.
Whether one thinks it better to distance oneself or not, the others won't allow it.
Steve Newton - Dec 3, 2004 1:07 pm (#1352 of 1957)
I sort of agree with both Liz and Tom. I can see Harry trying to protect Hermione and Ron by distancing himself, but, can't see the pair, especially Hermione, allowing this to happen. They will grow closer but it may take a few chapters to happen.
Liz Mann - Dec 3, 2004 3:02 pm (#1353 of 1957)
I never said that Ron and Hermione would allow it. Because they most certainly won't.
Denise P. - Dec 3, 2004 4:49 pm (#1354 of 1957)
Some seem to be losing track of what thread they are on since this is clearly the Ron Weasley thread. If you want to discuss Harry, please go to the Harry Potter thread.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 3, 2004 4:57 pm (#1355 of 1957)
"I envisage Ron searching out other friends and other activities, in order not to spend all his time in company that he feels inferior to."
Interesting... There hasn't really been that much interaction between Ron and Neville, as far as we know. And it seems like Ron does not feel inferior to Neville.
Do you suppose they might get to know each other better in book 6?
Oh, and my apologies to Denise. I deleted the offending post for obvious reasons...
Liz Mann - Dec 4, 2004 10:50 am (#1356 of 1957)
Sorry, Denise.
That's possible Paulus. I think Neville will become more central at any rate. But I still don't think that Ron will grow appart from Harry and Hermione. I think he's over his jealous and feeling inferior phase now.
Liz Mann - Dec 8, 2004 11:00 am (#1357 of 1957)
Changing the subject to one that is entirely about Ron, do you think he will die? I hope not, but I have a horrible feeling. I think that even though both Ron and Hermione are Harry's best friends, Ron is Harry's bestest best friend and his death would hurt the most. And I can't help but feel that the fact that Mrs Weasley's boggart was in Ron's form at the moment when Harry walked in and saw was foreshadowing. Just like the many references to veils were for Sirius.
Sir Tornado - Dec 8, 2004 11:48 am (#1358 of 1957)
Yes. Ron will die in Bk7, IMO atleast. Maybe, he would give his life to save Harry. Again, IMO.
TomProffitt - Dec 8, 2004 12:56 pm (#1359 of 1957)
I think Ron's future was shown to us in the Mirror of Erised, way back in PS/SS. And Harry's as well.
I think it's kind of one of those once you get what you want, it's not what you wanted things.
Ron will get his House Cup, Quidditch Cup(already has both of these), Quidditch Captaincy, and Head Boy.
Harry will be reunited with his family through death.
And Ron won't be Happy with all that he received.
Liz Mann - Dec 8, 2004 2:15 pm (#1360 of 1957)
But Dumbledore said the Mirror shows neither knowledge or truth.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 8, 2004 3:34 pm (#1361 of 1957)
Yes... well, it DID give Harry the Stone...
Potions Mistress - Dec 8, 2004 4:27 pm (#1362 of 1957)
I also think the Mirror was used by JKR as foreshadowing--after all, as Tom has pointed out, Ron has got many of the things he desired. So did Harry, in a weird sort of way (the Priori Incantatem thingy).
The boggart too maybe more foreshadowing on JKR's part, but it could also be used to throw us off until book 7, where Ron lives happily ever after in some way, shape, or form. I do hope its the latter, as I really like Ron. (Plus, he is based loosely on JKR's best friend, so I wonder if she would feel guilty "killing off" her best friend. ;-) )
~pm
TomProffitt - Dec 8, 2004 5:57 pm (#1363 of 1957)
"But Dumbledore said the Mirror shows neither knowledge or truth." --- Liz Mann
Indeed, you are correct, Liz. I think the scene is foreshadowing and allegory.
Recall that Ron could walk away from the mirror and live in the present, but Harry could not.
I think there is deeper meaning with in the scene than Dumbledore's simple statement. What it is, I am uncertain, but I expect for Jo to show us something by the end of the series.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 8, 2004 7:08 pm (#1364 of 1957)
That's also, by the way, one of the few instances where Ron was right, even though he wasn't joking...
The other being in the cave with Sirius, when he said that a really clever Dark wizard could fool Dumbledore.
The One - Dec 9, 2004 2:48 am (#1365 of 1957)
"But Dumbledore said the Mirror shows neither knowledge or truth." --- Liz Mann
Indeed, you are correct, Liz. I think the scene is foreshadowing and allegory
Or the mirror did not show truth, in the sense that Ron's road to happines lies somewhere else.
Even if he did in fact win the cup, I do not think that JKR has used s mirror that explisiitly is said to not tell the truth to tell the future.
Ron will not be captain neither Head Boy.
I do not think he will die either, he will show his value, but in some way that is very different from what we have seen so far.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 15, 2004 11:45 am (#1366 of 1957)
I have a question. On JKR's site there is new "extra stuff" about wands. She said she gave the trio Celtic wand woods based on thier birthdays. Now, Ron's birthday is in early March (the third I believe) and according to the chart she gave, the wood for February 18- March 17 is Ash. Ron has a wand made of Willow which is for the dates of April 15[/b]- May 12. Did JKR make a mistake in the chart or do I have the type of wood wrong or his birthday wrong?
Paulus Maximus - Dec 15, 2004 3:40 pm (#1367 of 1957)
I am not sure that she got the wands completely right. She admitted to getting Hagrid's wrong, and Yew isn't on the list, so she got Voldemort's wand wrong too (no matter when he was born.)
It makes me wonder... why would Ollivander make a yew wand in the first place?
On the other hand, she DID mention Ron's new wand in book 3, so that might be another flint...
Jennifer Anderson - Dec 15, 2004 5:42 pm (#1368 of 1957)
I think she just didn't realize that she had in book three stated that the wand was made out of willow. So sometime after writing book three, she heard about Celtic wood based on brithdays and since people don't remember every little thing they say. She could have easly overlooked that.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 18, 2004 7:41 am (#1369 of 1957)
Thanks Paulus and Jennifer. That seemed logical. I think I just wanted to move this thread in another direction from the betrayal aspect because I'm sick of hearing about it.
Ann - Jan 4, 2005 10:17 am (#1370 of 1957)
On a completely different topic, I noticed something odd in the DoM scenes, before Harry picks up the prophecy. It's in the scene where they find the door that can't be opened with an Alohomora spell and melts Sirius's knife, the door that many of us have equated with Dumbledore's "room at the DoM that is kept locked at all times," that "contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death."
"Right, we're leaving that room," said Hermione decisively.
"But what if that's the one?" said Ron, staring at it with a mixture of apprehension and longing.
"Longing" is an odd choice of words, given the circumstances, and we all know that Jo is careful about words. If the room contains love, as has been suggested, though, the word might be significant. After they've moved on, Luna asks what might be in there, and Hermione says "something blibbering, no doubt." and Neville laughs nervously.
Any thoughts?
TomProffitt - Jan 5, 2005 9:14 pm (#1371 of 1957)
" '... apprehension and longing.'" --- Ann
Nice catch, Ann. This will have me thinking for a while.
My first thought in connection with Ron was "eros", but that's probably much too shallow an analysis. I'll think some more.
wwtMask - Jan 6, 2005 6:08 am (#1372 of 1957)
I want to say it's part of Ron's natural curiousity, but he has shown some restraint when Harry didn't (Erised). It is curious that Ron seems to be the only one who was drawn to the room.
Ann - Jan 6, 2005 5:45 pm (#1373 of 1957)
The way the whole group splits over the various attractions of the DoM is interesting. Some are drawn to the veil (Harry and Neville, and, oddly, Ginny), some to the time things (again, Ginny). Hmm. Maybe this is one for the Ginny thread.
I thought that Hermione's giving up so quickly might be as significant as Ron's longing, if it is eros... But you may be right, Tom. That may be too obvious.
Eric Bailey - Jan 6, 2005 6:51 pm (#1374 of 1957)
Well, I always think of Ron's Buffy counterpart, Xander. People were predicting his death, too, due to all sorts of things seen as omens. But, he survived, in the end. Not unscathed, mind you, but alive. I think Ron makes it through.
As for the mysterious room, it may be Love, inside. Love is the key to defeating Voldemort, after all.
sere35 - Jan 6, 2005 8:57 pm (#1375 of 1957)
No offense Eric Bailey but if love is what defeats Voldermort or is the key to the whole series I am going to puke. I swear If that is what happens I am going to burn my books.
Catherine - Jan 7, 2005 5:08 am (#1376 of 1957)
No offense Eric Bailey but if love is what defeats Voldermort or is the key to the whole series I am going to puke. I swear If that is what happens I am going to burn my books. --Sere35
Love takes many forms, Sere35, and we have already seen that love, in the form of Lily's sacrifice for her son, already temporarily defeated Voldemort that fateful Halloween night. Harry's heart, according to Dumbledore, is what saved him from Voldemort's attempted possession at the Ministry of Magic.
Now hand over the matches and slowly step away from the Harry Potter books....
timrew - Jan 7, 2005 1:36 pm (#1377 of 1957)
Aaaah, Love! It makes the world go round; it's a many spleandoured thing; it's all you need!
Eric Bailey - Jan 7, 2005 2:12 pm (#1378 of 1957)
And, look at what ties the heroes together, what gives them the strength to face impossible odds. Voldemort doesn't have that kind of devotion. All his people are just with him because of what they expect to get out of him.
The giant squid - Jan 7, 2005 10:45 pm (#1379 of 1957)
You're right, Tim, it's definitely in the air.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 8, 2005 1:00 pm (#1380 of 1957)
Back to the Mirror of Erised for a moment. Harry was fixated on the past - his parents, family, etc. So, that's what he saw.
Ron wanted to know about his future. So, he saw himself as Head Boy, Quidditch Captain, et.
In spite off DD's warnings, the Mirror does seem to have reflected each boy's truth. Harry did see his parents and his family. Ron is experiencing exactly what the Mirror showed him.
So, I expect Ron to become Head Boy and Quidditch Captain, having already won the Quidditch Cup.
Thanks,
TomProffitt - Jan 8, 2005 2:31 pm (#1381 of 1957)
"Ron wanted to know about his future." --- Joanne R. Reid
And there I believe you have hit on the important trait that Ron brings to the trio.
Harry is very focused on the past, the now, and doing the right thing. He brings strength and commitment. He is the soul or spirit of the trio. It's heart.
Hermione is reason rational and understanding. She is the brain and the moral compass. She is a guide through troubled waters.
Ron is focused on the future. Ron is the looking to the future. Ron is hope, desire, and ambition.
Harry would be more at a loss should Ron die than any other character. Should Dumbledore perish, Harry could go on. Should Ron fall by the way, Harry would lose his hope for the future. He might be able to complete his life's task, but he would be lost at the end, spent and wasted in the effort.
It is Ron that gives Harry the courage to look forward to something beyond the war.
Potions Mistress - Jan 8, 2005 3:00 pm (#1382 of 1957)
Nice catch on the literary symbolism, Tom!
From a "real life" stand point, should Ron die during the War, Harry is going to lose his best and first friend he ever had. I think that can one of two ways: Harry will be completely lost without Ron or Ron's potential death will spur him to finally (and conclusively) defeat LV.
~pm
Ann - Jan 8, 2005 6:30 pm (#1383 of 1957)
Tom--a really insightful post. I think I've (over?)simplified it a bit in my mind, though. You don't quite say that Harry is obsessed with the past, Hermione with the present (school, grades, being right and admired at the moment), and Ron with the future (when he's finally going to stand out from his brothers), but that's another way to interpret what you've said.
I really like the idea of Ron being the one of them that's looking towards the future, particularly given the irony that I think it's likely that Ron's future will be in the past and present. (I'm an adherent of the Dumbledore is really Ron theory.)
Eric Bailey - Jan 9, 2005 4:05 am (#1384 of 1957)
I've always seen that theory as an attempt to make Ron the most important character in the books, even more than the title character. The entire point of Ron is that, even though he isn't The Boy Who Lived, or The Cleverest Witch Of Her Age, like his two best friends, he's still special, just being Ron Weasley. How far would Harry have gotten without him? He wouldn't have gotten past the big chess board. Ron has an inferiority complex, true. What his point of major growth will be is when he realizes he's proven worth more than a dozen Draco Malfoys. But, hey, fans of Ron's Buffy counterpart, Xander, were always trying to make him "equal" or superior in abilities to his two best friends, and missed the entire point of the character. Being Ron Weasley doesn't make him less. He's already outshined all his brothers that he felt he was in the shadow of.
Besides, it would make the entire series, and everything Harry has gone through, a bit pointless, wouldn't it? So much for "It's about the choices we make". It isn't if there's no choices TO make.
And, Dumbledore has an established family and background. We've met his brother, and a woman who gave him his exams in his school days. More likely (and, again, not destrying the entire series), Dumbldore, the Weasleys, and Lily are all distantly related, probably descended from Godric Gryffindor.
TomProffitt - Jan 9, 2005 4:28 am (#1385 of 1957)
I wouldn't call any of the three obsessed with the "time" that I've given to them. And the more I've thought about it the less I'd say it applies to Harry & Hermione.
Each of the trio brings something unique to the table. Each of them has value in who they are. Ron, the one of the three most solidly in the Wizarding World, is the one most solidly grounded in reality. Harry has the least firm foundation.
I may be over-emphasizing what Ron has to offer, it just seems to me that many of the posts I read under-emphasize what he gives to the trio.
Ann - Jan 9, 2005 5:36 am (#1386 of 1957)
Right; "obsessed" wasn't a good choice of word at all; "focused on" or "preoccupied with" those time frames, perhaps? I just re-read the conversation on career advice. No hint, really, at what Ron wants to do, though he does seem a bit more focused on the pamphlets than Harry or Hermione. It's also Ron who reminds Harry about the appointment to discuss careers with McGonagall. I wonder how his own appointment went?
It's interesting that we don't get much of a sense of what school subjects Ron is good at. Hermione seems to be good at everything except divination, though her heart seems to lie in Arithmancy and Runes; and Harry, of course, excels at DADA and perhaps Magical Creatures. But while we get clear indications that Ron, like Harry, has problems with some subjects, there's no hint that he has any special academic talents. Given that we're seeing him through Harry's eyes, that's a bit odd. Harry must be very aware by now (Hermione's told him often enough) that his own "special-ness" is difficult for Ron, who so badly wants to do something to distinguish himself from his brothers. You'd think he'd encourage any talent of Ron's that he could.
He does excel at chess, of course, which argues that he's quite bright and a good strategic thinker. But you'd think that would translate into academic success in one area or another. True, it doesn't need magic--perhaps that's why he's good at it?
It occurs to me that, despite the fact that of the three Ron is the least acquainted with the Muggle world, he is the one of them that would find it the least frustrating to live as a Muggle, since his chief skills and enthusiasms--humor, loyalty and love, strategic thinking, and sports--would translate the best. (Is this what you mean when you say he's grounded in reality, Tom?)
Eric, I really like the idea that Dumbledore is Ron, and I don't think it would make Ron the center of the series (Dumbledore isn't) or diminish the importance of anyone's choices. There are problems with it, most notably that JKR interview where she scoffs at the idea of Ron becoming a teacher, but there's also an impressive amount of evidence. We'll see.
Sorry...I'm rambling. More coffee needed.
Eric Bailey - Jan 9, 2005 6:02 am (#1387 of 1957)
How wouldn't it make choices unimportant? For the theory to work, everything must already be set in stone, unalterable, with no real choices by anyone involved possible. Harry, Voldemort, and everybody else would just be reduced to being Fate's puppets. If Ron/Dumbledore already knew that having Snape try to teach Harry Occlumency would be a disaster, why'd he come up with the idea, for example? It wasn't Snape saying "I should teach him", or Harry saying "Snape should teach me", but Dumbledore deciding it over both their objections. But, if Ron is Dumbledore, he already knew it wouldn't work, so why would he push for it? Because he remembered himself coming up with that bad idea, so he MUST do it? It makes no sense, from a Dumbledore point of view. Why would Dumbledore have originated the idea in the first place?
Ann - Jan 9, 2005 9:43 am (#1388 of 1957)
According to the theory, everything is not set in stone. Dumbledore is in fact, from GoF on, making some small changes in history (his choice--and a very dangerous one, as he knows). And Ron is, in many cases, unaware of many things and particularly of what Dumbledore is doing. So when he (as Dumbledore) makes decisions based on knowledge he had at the time (as Ron), he cannot be sure they are the right ones. He may be changing history inadvertently (though I don't think he is, in fact).
Also, the theory assumes (or at least I do), that Ron's being thrown back into time must happen before Voldemort's defeat, so that Dumbledore must simply act as best he can to insure that, without knowing the results of the actions taken the "first time" (that is, the events that he experiences as the first of two sequences--his "Ron time"). I would suspect that, in fact, whatever Dumbledore tries to change, the end results will be the same, just as happened in PoA. But he doesn't know this, of course. So I think everyone's choices are completely intact--and Dumbledore's are particularly complicated.
As for the example you cite, the occlumency lessons: Dumbledore must have done something that he believes was not done the "first time," which he hopes will insure that the lessons succeed "this time." Or conceivably the occlumency lessons themselves were not tried the "first time," and he is hoping that they will make things better (though I think this is less likely).
In fact, if this theory is correct, Dumbledore's insistence on the importance of choices makes even more sense. He must be terribly preoccupied by them, since even the tiniest move he makes may change history and effect the outcome. And the ambivalence that time travel creates between choices and foreordained outcome is mirrored in the ambivalence created by the prophecy. I think the existence of the prophecy and the partial constraints that Jo seems to see it putting on free will is very like the constraints created by the idea of time travel. They are, in a way, different sides of the same view of fate. Just as a prophecy makes things come out the same way, regardless of how the people concerned try to avoid it, so I think the "second" series of events will work out in the same way as the "first."
Not that I absolutely insist on this theory being correct, of course.... I just think it is possible, and extremely intriguing. (Sorry to take up so much space defending it!)
TomProffitt - Jan 9, 2005 2:08 pm (#1389 of 1957)
"It occurs to me that, despite the fact that of the three Ron is the least acquainted with the Muggle world, he is the one of them that would find it the least frustrating to live as a Muggle, since his chief skills and enthusiasms--humor, loyalty and love, strategic thinking, and sports--would translate the best. (Is this what you mean when you say he's grounded in reality, Tom?)" --- Ann
While Ron is terribly distressed at being poor, he is, for the most part, unabashedly comfortable being Ron.
He can throw out a mock celebration for "a good healthy P," overcome uncompromising failure at Quidditch, turn his back on the Mirror of Erised, conquer his fears in the Forbidden Forest, ask a half-veela for a date, and just in general get on with life.
He's had his ups and downs, but Ron has a lot easier time getting on with his life than Harry. He knows his limitations and doesn't try to free all of the House Elves at once. It would be easy to call Harry or Hermione obsessive, but never Ron.
It's never been said, but I kind of think that DADA aside Ron probably does as well or better than Harry in his subjects.
Ron wants to live his life. Harry and Hermione aren't really thinking about that.
Ann - Jan 9, 2005 8:27 pm (#1390 of 1957)
Really good points. I agree with you for the most part. (Not that Ron was terribly pleased about the results of asking Fleur out.) However, I'm not entirely sure Ron really knows his limitations--I think he tends to overestimate them.
I think he needs confidence. If you look at the rest of his family, each of them has some special skill or characteristic that sets them apart from others, although all of them are shown as being unusually competent witches and wizards. Ron hasn't shown any of that yet, and I think he is likely to do so. I get your point that just being who he is should be enough, but I think he will be happier if he finds some area where he, too, can truly excel. And I suspect he will.
Eric Bailey - Jan 9, 2005 8:58 pm (#1391 of 1957)
Ron knew about the Occlumency lessons, and the results. It just sounds like making something needlessly convoluted for the sole purpose of making things needlessly convoluted. How does that make the story better? What purpose would it serve, except to make Ron more important than the title character (which isn't going to happen)?
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jan 10, 2005 1:45 pm (#1392 of 1957)
I would just like to say that I am so happy that this thread has taken a serious turn for the better. No more talk about Ron and Harry's fight in GOF.
I think Tom's analysis is wonderful and I agree completely. About the scene in the DOM...It is quite possible that Ron desires love, which is why he was drawn to that room (assuming that love in what the room contains). Now, I know that Ron's family loves him, but perhaps he feels the need for someone to love him and only him. He has never had anything truly his, not counting his new wand, yet he has shown devotion and love to all his friends and family. He wants to be loved for his own achievments.
On a related note, perhaps we don't know his career interests or grades because Harry doesn't. I mean, Harry probably wouldn't press Ron on such issues because they aren't and important aspect of their friendship (like it is with Hermione). Plus Harry had a lot of issues of his own in that book so Ron's grades weren't on the top of his list.
Amilia Smith - Jan 10, 2005 7:12 pm (#1393 of 1957)
Eric Bailey: " . . .except to make Ron more important than the title character . . ."
Sorry, but I just have to share a funny story. Not long after OotP came out, I was discussing the ending with a fellow pottie at work. We were speaking in code and not mentioning names so as not to give away the BIG SECRET. Another coworker heard us talking and misunderstood. Eyes round and shocked, she said, "Harry Potter dies???" Another coworker who had also been listening in started laughing and said, "Yes. The last two books are going to be entitled Ron Weasley and . . ."
On a more serious note . . .
Ann: "If you look at the rest of his family, each of them has some special skill or characteristic that sets them apart from others . . ."
One of my brother's coworkers is rather anti-Potter. One of his complaints is that Ron has no personality, that he is just the generic best friend/side kick. Note: this argument holds more weight if, like this person, you have only seen the movies, not read the books. However, he does have a bit of a point. All of Ron's family, even Bill and Charlie, whom we barely know, have more personality than Ron himself does. But, in my opinion, therein lies his charm. Who hasn't struggled to find themselves, to define who they are apart from their family? And doesn't it say something for strength of character to keep striving and plugging away when you are constantly feeling overshadowed? ***cue "Wind Beneath My Wings"***
Mills.
Ann - Jan 11, 2005 12:13 pm (#1394 of 1957)
Mills, I agree with you. Ron has tremendous strengths, though; they simply aren't the kind that get awards, high grades on exams, popular acclaim. They don't give awards for being funny, being nice, being loyal and loving. At least, not at school. But, as you say, I think he will distinguish himself eventually at more visible things.
And I really like Matilda's point about Harry being to considerate to ask Ron about his grades.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 11, 2005 2:52 pm (#1395 of 1957)
Tom, Excellent! I think you've hit it right on the head. I'll have to consider your comments for a while and attempt to relate them back into the characters. Thanks,
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 6:07 am (#1396 of 1957)
ON the Harry thread there are several very good lists of the things that he owns. Ron complains about not ever having anything new. I am trying to think of the new things that he now has and where they came from.
I remember a new wand. From Arthur and Molly as far as I can tell.
New robes. From the twins. (Sort of from Harry.)
An owl. From Sirius.
I can't remember any clever Christmas presents.
JKR sometimes sneaks things in and I am wondering if there are any trends or hints in the items that Ron is picking up.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 20, 2005 7:22 am (#1397 of 1957)
Steve, How about his new Cleansweep?
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 7:41 am (#1398 of 1957)
Yes. A good catch. I'm trying to reread looking out for such things.
Wand Robes Owl Broom
Seems like a reasonable list of wizard like stuff.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jan 20, 2005 12:20 pm (#1399 of 1957)
Also the omnioculars. All of the trio has them, courtesy of Harry.
wwtMask - Jan 20, 2005 12:46 pm (#1400 of 1957)
Chudley Cannons hat from Harry
Frankly, not only do I not see the trio being distanced from each other, I see them getting closer. The individual strength of character of each of them will bring them closer in this time of crisis.
Whether one thinks it better to distance oneself or not, the others won't allow it.
Steve Newton - Dec 3, 2004 1:07 pm (#1352 of 1957)
I sort of agree with both Liz and Tom. I can see Harry trying to protect Hermione and Ron by distancing himself, but, can't see the pair, especially Hermione, allowing this to happen. They will grow closer but it may take a few chapters to happen.
Liz Mann - Dec 3, 2004 3:02 pm (#1353 of 1957)
I never said that Ron and Hermione would allow it. Because they most certainly won't.
Denise P. - Dec 3, 2004 4:49 pm (#1354 of 1957)
Some seem to be losing track of what thread they are on since this is clearly the Ron Weasley thread. If you want to discuss Harry, please go to the Harry Potter thread.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 3, 2004 4:57 pm (#1355 of 1957)
"I envisage Ron searching out other friends and other activities, in order not to spend all his time in company that he feels inferior to."
Interesting... There hasn't really been that much interaction between Ron and Neville, as far as we know. And it seems like Ron does not feel inferior to Neville.
Do you suppose they might get to know each other better in book 6?
Oh, and my apologies to Denise. I deleted the offending post for obvious reasons...
Liz Mann - Dec 4, 2004 10:50 am (#1356 of 1957)
Sorry, Denise.
That's possible Paulus. I think Neville will become more central at any rate. But I still don't think that Ron will grow appart from Harry and Hermione. I think he's over his jealous and feeling inferior phase now.
Liz Mann - Dec 8, 2004 11:00 am (#1357 of 1957)
Changing the subject to one that is entirely about Ron, do you think he will die? I hope not, but I have a horrible feeling. I think that even though both Ron and Hermione are Harry's best friends, Ron is Harry's bestest best friend and his death would hurt the most. And I can't help but feel that the fact that Mrs Weasley's boggart was in Ron's form at the moment when Harry walked in and saw was foreshadowing. Just like the many references to veils were for Sirius.
Sir Tornado - Dec 8, 2004 11:48 am (#1358 of 1957)
Yes. Ron will die in Bk7, IMO atleast. Maybe, he would give his life to save Harry. Again, IMO.
TomProffitt - Dec 8, 2004 12:56 pm (#1359 of 1957)
I think Ron's future was shown to us in the Mirror of Erised, way back in PS/SS. And Harry's as well.
I think it's kind of one of those once you get what you want, it's not what you wanted things.
Ron will get his House Cup, Quidditch Cup(already has both of these), Quidditch Captaincy, and Head Boy.
Harry will be reunited with his family through death.
And Ron won't be Happy with all that he received.
Liz Mann - Dec 8, 2004 2:15 pm (#1360 of 1957)
But Dumbledore said the Mirror shows neither knowledge or truth.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 8, 2004 3:34 pm (#1361 of 1957)
Yes... well, it DID give Harry the Stone...
Potions Mistress - Dec 8, 2004 4:27 pm (#1362 of 1957)
I also think the Mirror was used by JKR as foreshadowing--after all, as Tom has pointed out, Ron has got many of the things he desired. So did Harry, in a weird sort of way (the Priori Incantatem thingy).
The boggart too maybe more foreshadowing on JKR's part, but it could also be used to throw us off until book 7, where Ron lives happily ever after in some way, shape, or form. I do hope its the latter, as I really like Ron. (Plus, he is based loosely on JKR's best friend, so I wonder if she would feel guilty "killing off" her best friend. ;-) )
~pm
TomProffitt - Dec 8, 2004 5:57 pm (#1363 of 1957)
"But Dumbledore said the Mirror shows neither knowledge or truth." --- Liz Mann
Indeed, you are correct, Liz. I think the scene is foreshadowing and allegory.
Recall that Ron could walk away from the mirror and live in the present, but Harry could not.
I think there is deeper meaning with in the scene than Dumbledore's simple statement. What it is, I am uncertain, but I expect for Jo to show us something by the end of the series.
Paulus Maximus - Dec 8, 2004 7:08 pm (#1364 of 1957)
That's also, by the way, one of the few instances where Ron was right, even though he wasn't joking...
The other being in the cave with Sirius, when he said that a really clever Dark wizard could fool Dumbledore.
The One - Dec 9, 2004 2:48 am (#1365 of 1957)
"But Dumbledore said the Mirror shows neither knowledge or truth." --- Liz Mann
Indeed, you are correct, Liz. I think the scene is foreshadowing and allegory
Or the mirror did not show truth, in the sense that Ron's road to happines lies somewhere else.
Even if he did in fact win the cup, I do not think that JKR has used s mirror that explisiitly is said to not tell the truth to tell the future.
Ron will not be captain neither Head Boy.
I do not think he will die either, he will show his value, but in some way that is very different from what we have seen so far.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 15, 2004 11:45 am (#1366 of 1957)
I have a question. On JKR's site there is new "extra stuff" about wands. She said she gave the trio Celtic wand woods based on thier birthdays. Now, Ron's birthday is in early March (the third I believe) and according to the chart she gave, the wood for February 18- March 17 is Ash. Ron has a wand made of Willow which is for the dates of April 15[/b]- May 12. Did JKR make a mistake in the chart or do I have the type of wood wrong or his birthday wrong?
Paulus Maximus - Dec 15, 2004 3:40 pm (#1367 of 1957)
I am not sure that she got the wands completely right. She admitted to getting Hagrid's wrong, and Yew isn't on the list, so she got Voldemort's wand wrong too (no matter when he was born.)
It makes me wonder... why would Ollivander make a yew wand in the first place?
On the other hand, she DID mention Ron's new wand in book 3, so that might be another flint...
Jennifer Anderson - Dec 15, 2004 5:42 pm (#1368 of 1957)
I think she just didn't realize that she had in book three stated that the wand was made out of willow. So sometime after writing book three, she heard about Celtic wood based on brithdays and since people don't remember every little thing they say. She could have easly overlooked that.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Dec 18, 2004 7:41 am (#1369 of 1957)
Thanks Paulus and Jennifer. That seemed logical. I think I just wanted to move this thread in another direction from the betrayal aspect because I'm sick of hearing about it.
Ann - Jan 4, 2005 10:17 am (#1370 of 1957)
On a completely different topic, I noticed something odd in the DoM scenes, before Harry picks up the prophecy. It's in the scene where they find the door that can't be opened with an Alohomora spell and melts Sirius's knife, the door that many of us have equated with Dumbledore's "room at the DoM that is kept locked at all times," that "contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death."
"Right, we're leaving that room," said Hermione decisively.
"But what if that's the one?" said Ron, staring at it with a mixture of apprehension and longing.
"Longing" is an odd choice of words, given the circumstances, and we all know that Jo is careful about words. If the room contains love, as has been suggested, though, the word might be significant. After they've moved on, Luna asks what might be in there, and Hermione says "something blibbering, no doubt." and Neville laughs nervously.
Any thoughts?
TomProffitt - Jan 5, 2005 9:14 pm (#1371 of 1957)
" '... apprehension and longing.'" --- Ann
Nice catch, Ann. This will have me thinking for a while.
My first thought in connection with Ron was "eros", but that's probably much too shallow an analysis. I'll think some more.
wwtMask - Jan 6, 2005 6:08 am (#1372 of 1957)
I want to say it's part of Ron's natural curiousity, but he has shown some restraint when Harry didn't (Erised). It is curious that Ron seems to be the only one who was drawn to the room.
Ann - Jan 6, 2005 5:45 pm (#1373 of 1957)
The way the whole group splits over the various attractions of the DoM is interesting. Some are drawn to the veil (Harry and Neville, and, oddly, Ginny), some to the time things (again, Ginny). Hmm. Maybe this is one for the Ginny thread.
I thought that Hermione's giving up so quickly might be as significant as Ron's longing, if it is eros... But you may be right, Tom. That may be too obvious.
Eric Bailey - Jan 6, 2005 6:51 pm (#1374 of 1957)
Well, I always think of Ron's Buffy counterpart, Xander. People were predicting his death, too, due to all sorts of things seen as omens. But, he survived, in the end. Not unscathed, mind you, but alive. I think Ron makes it through.
As for the mysterious room, it may be Love, inside. Love is the key to defeating Voldemort, after all.
sere35 - Jan 6, 2005 8:57 pm (#1375 of 1957)
No offense Eric Bailey but if love is what defeats Voldermort or is the key to the whole series I am going to puke. I swear If that is what happens I am going to burn my books.
Catherine - Jan 7, 2005 5:08 am (#1376 of 1957)
No offense Eric Bailey but if love is what defeats Voldermort or is the key to the whole series I am going to puke. I swear If that is what happens I am going to burn my books. --Sere35
Love takes many forms, Sere35, and we have already seen that love, in the form of Lily's sacrifice for her son, already temporarily defeated Voldemort that fateful Halloween night. Harry's heart, according to Dumbledore, is what saved him from Voldemort's attempted possession at the Ministry of Magic.
Now hand over the matches and slowly step away from the Harry Potter books....
timrew - Jan 7, 2005 1:36 pm (#1377 of 1957)
Aaaah, Love! It makes the world go round; it's a many spleandoured thing; it's all you need!
Eric Bailey - Jan 7, 2005 2:12 pm (#1378 of 1957)
And, look at what ties the heroes together, what gives them the strength to face impossible odds. Voldemort doesn't have that kind of devotion. All his people are just with him because of what they expect to get out of him.
The giant squid - Jan 7, 2005 10:45 pm (#1379 of 1957)
You're right, Tim, it's definitely in the air.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 8, 2005 1:00 pm (#1380 of 1957)
Back to the Mirror of Erised for a moment. Harry was fixated on the past - his parents, family, etc. So, that's what he saw.
Ron wanted to know about his future. So, he saw himself as Head Boy, Quidditch Captain, et.
In spite off DD's warnings, the Mirror does seem to have reflected each boy's truth. Harry did see his parents and his family. Ron is experiencing exactly what the Mirror showed him.
So, I expect Ron to become Head Boy and Quidditch Captain, having already won the Quidditch Cup.
Thanks,
TomProffitt - Jan 8, 2005 2:31 pm (#1381 of 1957)
"Ron wanted to know about his future." --- Joanne R. Reid
And there I believe you have hit on the important trait that Ron brings to the trio.
Harry is very focused on the past, the now, and doing the right thing. He brings strength and commitment. He is the soul or spirit of the trio. It's heart.
Hermione is reason rational and understanding. She is the brain and the moral compass. She is a guide through troubled waters.
Ron is focused on the future. Ron is the looking to the future. Ron is hope, desire, and ambition.
Harry would be more at a loss should Ron die than any other character. Should Dumbledore perish, Harry could go on. Should Ron fall by the way, Harry would lose his hope for the future. He might be able to complete his life's task, but he would be lost at the end, spent and wasted in the effort.
It is Ron that gives Harry the courage to look forward to something beyond the war.
Potions Mistress - Jan 8, 2005 3:00 pm (#1382 of 1957)
Nice catch on the literary symbolism, Tom!
From a "real life" stand point, should Ron die during the War, Harry is going to lose his best and first friend he ever had. I think that can one of two ways: Harry will be completely lost without Ron or Ron's potential death will spur him to finally (and conclusively) defeat LV.
~pm
Ann - Jan 8, 2005 6:30 pm (#1383 of 1957)
Tom--a really insightful post. I think I've (over?)simplified it a bit in my mind, though. You don't quite say that Harry is obsessed with the past, Hermione with the present (school, grades, being right and admired at the moment), and Ron with the future (when he's finally going to stand out from his brothers), but that's another way to interpret what you've said.
I really like the idea of Ron being the one of them that's looking towards the future, particularly given the irony that I think it's likely that Ron's future will be in the past and present. (I'm an adherent of the Dumbledore is really Ron theory.)
Eric Bailey - Jan 9, 2005 4:05 am (#1384 of 1957)
I've always seen that theory as an attempt to make Ron the most important character in the books, even more than the title character. The entire point of Ron is that, even though he isn't The Boy Who Lived, or The Cleverest Witch Of Her Age, like his two best friends, he's still special, just being Ron Weasley. How far would Harry have gotten without him? He wouldn't have gotten past the big chess board. Ron has an inferiority complex, true. What his point of major growth will be is when he realizes he's proven worth more than a dozen Draco Malfoys. But, hey, fans of Ron's Buffy counterpart, Xander, were always trying to make him "equal" or superior in abilities to his two best friends, and missed the entire point of the character. Being Ron Weasley doesn't make him less. He's already outshined all his brothers that he felt he was in the shadow of.
Besides, it would make the entire series, and everything Harry has gone through, a bit pointless, wouldn't it? So much for "It's about the choices we make". It isn't if there's no choices TO make.
And, Dumbledore has an established family and background. We've met his brother, and a woman who gave him his exams in his school days. More likely (and, again, not destrying the entire series), Dumbldore, the Weasleys, and Lily are all distantly related, probably descended from Godric Gryffindor.
TomProffitt - Jan 9, 2005 4:28 am (#1385 of 1957)
I wouldn't call any of the three obsessed with the "time" that I've given to them. And the more I've thought about it the less I'd say it applies to Harry & Hermione.
Each of the trio brings something unique to the table. Each of them has value in who they are. Ron, the one of the three most solidly in the Wizarding World, is the one most solidly grounded in reality. Harry has the least firm foundation.
I may be over-emphasizing what Ron has to offer, it just seems to me that many of the posts I read under-emphasize what he gives to the trio.
Ann - Jan 9, 2005 5:36 am (#1386 of 1957)
Right; "obsessed" wasn't a good choice of word at all; "focused on" or "preoccupied with" those time frames, perhaps? I just re-read the conversation on career advice. No hint, really, at what Ron wants to do, though he does seem a bit more focused on the pamphlets than Harry or Hermione. It's also Ron who reminds Harry about the appointment to discuss careers with McGonagall. I wonder how his own appointment went?
It's interesting that we don't get much of a sense of what school subjects Ron is good at. Hermione seems to be good at everything except divination, though her heart seems to lie in Arithmancy and Runes; and Harry, of course, excels at DADA and perhaps Magical Creatures. But while we get clear indications that Ron, like Harry, has problems with some subjects, there's no hint that he has any special academic talents. Given that we're seeing him through Harry's eyes, that's a bit odd. Harry must be very aware by now (Hermione's told him often enough) that his own "special-ness" is difficult for Ron, who so badly wants to do something to distinguish himself from his brothers. You'd think he'd encourage any talent of Ron's that he could.
He does excel at chess, of course, which argues that he's quite bright and a good strategic thinker. But you'd think that would translate into academic success in one area or another. True, it doesn't need magic--perhaps that's why he's good at it?
It occurs to me that, despite the fact that of the three Ron is the least acquainted with the Muggle world, he is the one of them that would find it the least frustrating to live as a Muggle, since his chief skills and enthusiasms--humor, loyalty and love, strategic thinking, and sports--would translate the best. (Is this what you mean when you say he's grounded in reality, Tom?)
Eric, I really like the idea that Dumbledore is Ron, and I don't think it would make Ron the center of the series (Dumbledore isn't) or diminish the importance of anyone's choices. There are problems with it, most notably that JKR interview where she scoffs at the idea of Ron becoming a teacher, but there's also an impressive amount of evidence. We'll see.
Sorry...I'm rambling. More coffee needed.
Eric Bailey - Jan 9, 2005 6:02 am (#1387 of 1957)
How wouldn't it make choices unimportant? For the theory to work, everything must already be set in stone, unalterable, with no real choices by anyone involved possible. Harry, Voldemort, and everybody else would just be reduced to being Fate's puppets. If Ron/Dumbledore already knew that having Snape try to teach Harry Occlumency would be a disaster, why'd he come up with the idea, for example? It wasn't Snape saying "I should teach him", or Harry saying "Snape should teach me", but Dumbledore deciding it over both their objections. But, if Ron is Dumbledore, he already knew it wouldn't work, so why would he push for it? Because he remembered himself coming up with that bad idea, so he MUST do it? It makes no sense, from a Dumbledore point of view. Why would Dumbledore have originated the idea in the first place?
Ann - Jan 9, 2005 9:43 am (#1388 of 1957)
According to the theory, everything is not set in stone. Dumbledore is in fact, from GoF on, making some small changes in history (his choice--and a very dangerous one, as he knows). And Ron is, in many cases, unaware of many things and particularly of what Dumbledore is doing. So when he (as Dumbledore) makes decisions based on knowledge he had at the time (as Ron), he cannot be sure they are the right ones. He may be changing history inadvertently (though I don't think he is, in fact).
Also, the theory assumes (or at least I do), that Ron's being thrown back into time must happen before Voldemort's defeat, so that Dumbledore must simply act as best he can to insure that, without knowing the results of the actions taken the "first time" (that is, the events that he experiences as the first of two sequences--his "Ron time"). I would suspect that, in fact, whatever Dumbledore tries to change, the end results will be the same, just as happened in PoA. But he doesn't know this, of course. So I think everyone's choices are completely intact--and Dumbledore's are particularly complicated.
As for the example you cite, the occlumency lessons: Dumbledore must have done something that he believes was not done the "first time," which he hopes will insure that the lessons succeed "this time." Or conceivably the occlumency lessons themselves were not tried the "first time," and he is hoping that they will make things better (though I think this is less likely).
In fact, if this theory is correct, Dumbledore's insistence on the importance of choices makes even more sense. He must be terribly preoccupied by them, since even the tiniest move he makes may change history and effect the outcome. And the ambivalence that time travel creates between choices and foreordained outcome is mirrored in the ambivalence created by the prophecy. I think the existence of the prophecy and the partial constraints that Jo seems to see it putting on free will is very like the constraints created by the idea of time travel. They are, in a way, different sides of the same view of fate. Just as a prophecy makes things come out the same way, regardless of how the people concerned try to avoid it, so I think the "second" series of events will work out in the same way as the "first."
Not that I absolutely insist on this theory being correct, of course.... I just think it is possible, and extremely intriguing. (Sorry to take up so much space defending it!)
TomProffitt - Jan 9, 2005 2:08 pm (#1389 of 1957)
"It occurs to me that, despite the fact that of the three Ron is the least acquainted with the Muggle world, he is the one of them that would find it the least frustrating to live as a Muggle, since his chief skills and enthusiasms--humor, loyalty and love, strategic thinking, and sports--would translate the best. (Is this what you mean when you say he's grounded in reality, Tom?)" --- Ann
While Ron is terribly distressed at being poor, he is, for the most part, unabashedly comfortable being Ron.
He can throw out a mock celebration for "a good healthy P," overcome uncompromising failure at Quidditch, turn his back on the Mirror of Erised, conquer his fears in the Forbidden Forest, ask a half-veela for a date, and just in general get on with life.
He's had his ups and downs, but Ron has a lot easier time getting on with his life than Harry. He knows his limitations and doesn't try to free all of the House Elves at once. It would be easy to call Harry or Hermione obsessive, but never Ron.
It's never been said, but I kind of think that DADA aside Ron probably does as well or better than Harry in his subjects.
Ron wants to live his life. Harry and Hermione aren't really thinking about that.
Ann - Jan 9, 2005 8:27 pm (#1390 of 1957)
Really good points. I agree with you for the most part. (Not that Ron was terribly pleased about the results of asking Fleur out.) However, I'm not entirely sure Ron really knows his limitations--I think he tends to overestimate them.
I think he needs confidence. If you look at the rest of his family, each of them has some special skill or characteristic that sets them apart from others, although all of them are shown as being unusually competent witches and wizards. Ron hasn't shown any of that yet, and I think he is likely to do so. I get your point that just being who he is should be enough, but I think he will be happier if he finds some area where he, too, can truly excel. And I suspect he will.
Eric Bailey - Jan 9, 2005 8:58 pm (#1391 of 1957)
Ron knew about the Occlumency lessons, and the results. It just sounds like making something needlessly convoluted for the sole purpose of making things needlessly convoluted. How does that make the story better? What purpose would it serve, except to make Ron more important than the title character (which isn't going to happen)?
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jan 10, 2005 1:45 pm (#1392 of 1957)
I would just like to say that I am so happy that this thread has taken a serious turn for the better. No more talk about Ron and Harry's fight in GOF.
I think Tom's analysis is wonderful and I agree completely. About the scene in the DOM...It is quite possible that Ron desires love, which is why he was drawn to that room (assuming that love in what the room contains). Now, I know that Ron's family loves him, but perhaps he feels the need for someone to love him and only him. He has never had anything truly his, not counting his new wand, yet he has shown devotion and love to all his friends and family. He wants to be loved for his own achievments.
On a related note, perhaps we don't know his career interests or grades because Harry doesn't. I mean, Harry probably wouldn't press Ron on such issues because they aren't and important aspect of their friendship (like it is with Hermione). Plus Harry had a lot of issues of his own in that book so Ron's grades weren't on the top of his list.
Amilia Smith - Jan 10, 2005 7:12 pm (#1393 of 1957)
Eric Bailey: " . . .except to make Ron more important than the title character . . ."
Sorry, but I just have to share a funny story. Not long after OotP came out, I was discussing the ending with a fellow pottie at work. We were speaking in code and not mentioning names so as not to give away the BIG SECRET. Another coworker heard us talking and misunderstood. Eyes round and shocked, she said, "Harry Potter dies???" Another coworker who had also been listening in started laughing and said, "Yes. The last two books are going to be entitled Ron Weasley and . . ."
On a more serious note . . .
Ann: "If you look at the rest of his family, each of them has some special skill or characteristic that sets them apart from others . . ."
One of my brother's coworkers is rather anti-Potter. One of his complaints is that Ron has no personality, that he is just the generic best friend/side kick. Note: this argument holds more weight if, like this person, you have only seen the movies, not read the books. However, he does have a bit of a point. All of Ron's family, even Bill and Charlie, whom we barely know, have more personality than Ron himself does. But, in my opinion, therein lies his charm. Who hasn't struggled to find themselves, to define who they are apart from their family? And doesn't it say something for strength of character to keep striving and plugging away when you are constantly feeling overshadowed? ***cue "Wind Beneath My Wings"***
Mills.
Ann - Jan 11, 2005 12:13 pm (#1394 of 1957)
Mills, I agree with you. Ron has tremendous strengths, though; they simply aren't the kind that get awards, high grades on exams, popular acclaim. They don't give awards for being funny, being nice, being loyal and loving. At least, not at school. But, as you say, I think he will distinguish himself eventually at more visible things.
And I really like Matilda's point about Harry being to considerate to ask Ron about his grades.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 11, 2005 2:52 pm (#1395 of 1957)
Tom, Excellent! I think you've hit it right on the head. I'll have to consider your comments for a while and attempt to relate them back into the characters. Thanks,
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 6:07 am (#1396 of 1957)
ON the Harry thread there are several very good lists of the things that he owns. Ron complains about not ever having anything new. I am trying to think of the new things that he now has and where they came from.
I remember a new wand. From Arthur and Molly as far as I can tell.
New robes. From the twins. (Sort of from Harry.)
An owl. From Sirius.
I can't remember any clever Christmas presents.
JKR sometimes sneaks things in and I am wondering if there are any trends or hints in the items that Ron is picking up.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 20, 2005 7:22 am (#1397 of 1957)
Steve, How about his new Cleansweep?
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 7:41 am (#1398 of 1957)
Yes. A good catch. I'm trying to reread looking out for such things.
Wand Robes Owl Broom
Seems like a reasonable list of wizard like stuff.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jan 20, 2005 12:20 pm (#1399 of 1957)
Also the omnioculars. All of the trio has them, courtesy of Harry.
wwtMask - Jan 20, 2005 12:46 pm (#1400 of 1957)
Chudley Cannons hat from Harry
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dizzy lizzy - Jan 20, 2005 1:35 pm (#1401 of 1957)
It seems most of the new things are coming from Harry??
Catherine - Jan 20, 2005 4:02 pm (#1402 of 1957)
Now, that's ineresting, Dizzy Lizzy.
If we are listing Ron's new acquisitions, it does seem like they are a direct result of Ron's friendship with Harry. Hmmm. Does that have any importance later, do you think?
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 4:14 pm (#1403 of 1957)
As I recall it the hat was orange. Probably doesn't mean a lot but you never know.
Catherine - Jan 20, 2005 4:53 pm (#1404 of 1957)
Yes. The Chudley Cannon's colors are orange, so it makes sense that the hat is orange, also.
Do you have some symbolism, or specific meanings for the color orange, Steve?
That could be interesting.
Choices - Jan 20, 2005 5:20 pm (#1405 of 1957)
Ron's bedroom at home was all orange - Chudley Cannons bedspread, posters, etc.
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 6:28 pm (#1406 of 1957)
Well, I've read about orange somewhere. Even done some research. I think that Round Pink Spider wrote about it(orange) in her newsletter. I'll scout around.
Amazingly, I did a quick check and in October RPS had tentatively figured out that orange meant safety.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 1:09 pm (#1407 of 1957)
I should also point out that Ron seems to have at least 5 knit sweaters. I suspect, as do many others, that Molly may have knitted some protection into them. Sort of new items.
Dr Filibuster - Jan 21, 2005 2:09 pm (#1408 of 1957)
Do you mean Ron's had 5 sweaters over his 5 Christmases at Hogwarts?
He's a growing lad, so I think he'd need a new one each year.
I like the theory that Molly has put some type of protection charm in them, but maybe they were just knitted by a loving mum? Sort of like the sock symbolism perhaps?.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 4:02 pm (#1409 of 1957)
Good thinking. Probably only the latest fits and maybe not that. Ron does seem to grow a lot.
Ann - Jan 21, 2005 4:17 pm (#1410 of 1957)
It is nice, though, that she knits them new ones (even though they complain). And that she puts their initials on them so that it is clear that they are new and not hand-me-downs. I suppose she could give Ginny George's old ones, though.
I would think they'd need a new sweater every year even if they weren't growing so quickly. The old one is probably completely out at the elbows by Christmas, what with Quidditch and all the wild horsing around.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 8:08 pm (#1411 of 1957)
Ron's wand. Is it new or another hand me down? I don't recall reading this.
Wand Maker - Jan 21, 2005 8:13 pm (#1412 of 1957)
It is never said that Ron's new wand was bought at Olivander's, but the way that he shows it off to Harry says to me that it is brand new, and chose him. Oh yes, Ron took it out of its box - another indication it was new.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 8:37 pm (#1413 of 1957)
Thanks. I don't seem to have noticed that he showed any marked improvement on his spelling. The magic kind of spelling. I couldn't tell how well he did at the MOM.
Potions Mistress - Jan 21, 2005 9:14 pm (#1414 of 1957)
I can't find the exact passage but yes, Ron's wand is new. The Weasleys won 1000 Galleons from the Daily Prophet and went to Egypt. Ron told Harry they were using what was left to buy him a new wand. (I think!)
Edit: Found it: Ch. 1 "Owl Post" PoA. Oh, and it was 700 Galleons, not 1000. But still a decent chunk change!
~pm
Steve Newton - Jan 27, 2005 6:21 am (#1415 of 1957)
In OOTP when Ron tries to go up to the girls dormitory he only makes it to the sixth step. He doesn't make it to the seventh. Is this foreshadowing that Ron will not make it to book 7? I hope not.
Choices - Jan 27, 2005 9:10 am (#1416 of 1957)
Oh, interesting observation Steve. I hope not, too.
Jak Frank - Jan 27, 2005 12:17 pm (#1417 of 1957)
I hope so.
Potions Mistress - Jan 27, 2005 12:58 pm (#1418 of 1957)
Why, Jak Frank?
Jak Frank - Jan 27, 2005 10:09 pm (#1419 of 1957)
Because if the 'worst' most one-demensional character dies, then none of the good/great characters have to die before book seven. I'm not saying that I WANT all the main characters to live (I would actually dislike that) but I would want them all to make it to the 7th book and play a key role in the final showdown. Ron... I couldn't care less about.
And PLEASE call me Jak.
Choices - Jan 28, 2005 9:33 am (#1420 of 1957)
Jak - Why such a dislike for Ron?
Ydnam96 - Jan 28, 2005 10:27 am (#1421 of 1957)
I don't think Ron is one dimensional. I think that he has a lot of depth...maybe before the Mirror of Erised scene that could be said, but there is a lot more there than we saw. Ron is caught in a unique family environment where he is the 6th boy. He is had pressed to be "special" within the family, as displayed by his desires. He also is best friends with someone who always gets the attention even though, as Harry admitted himself, Ron has pretty equal talents in just about everything but Quittich. He's just as brave as Harry. He's loyal. He's caring. He's stupid about girls, just as every boy is around that age. I think that there is a lot to Ron. Just as much as depth as say Hermione or Neville or a lot of other characters.
Choices - Jan 28, 2005 11:45 am (#1422 of 1957)
I agree - Ron has his own set of problems he has to deal with. He sometimes feels lost in the shuffle of older brothers, he resents the hand-me-downs, he resents being poor, he resents the lack of respect and esteem that his Dad gets, he resents the fame that Harry has and Harry's fancy broomsticks and Quidditch skills, and I think he resents Hermione's intelligence and the ease with which she does her lessons. Don't get me wrong, he loves Harry and Hermione, but he is envious of them. Ron is a good friend though, loyal and brave and ready to do anything for his friends. He's a good kid full of hopes and dreams and a wonderful character.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 28, 2005 12:07 pm (#1423 of 1957)
Hi,
Ron is the side-kick, the foil that the hero uses as a sounding board for his ideas.
Can you imagine Holmes without Watson; Cisco without Pancho; the Lone Ranger without Tonto? Consider all of English literature. In which series did the side kick die? In which series did the hero die?
I doubt that Ron will be killed. At the same time, this long history of heroic literature is an ill portent for Harry.
Thanks,
Steve Newton - Jan 28, 2005 12:30 pm (#1424 of 1957)
Cisco without Pancho
Wow, I thought that I was the only one who made off the cuff comments about the Cisco Kid. Suddenly I feel younger. I think.
Ann - Jan 28, 2005 2:01 pm (#1425 of 1957)
Choices: "Don't get me wrong, he loves Harry and Hermione, but he is envious of them."
Actually, I think that's the most intriguing and admirable thing about Ron. Here he is, a kid whose consuming passion (not just in the mirror of Erised--he says as much already in the scene on the train) is to stand out, to excel in some way of his own. And yet he almost immediately becomes the best friend of the most famous (in sports and magic) wizard and the smartest witch in his class (and the entire school). And when their positions bring them grief, he's (generally) sympathetic and supportive. In addition, Hermione's a Muggle-born, and Harry was raised that way, and he shares with them all the knowledge of the world they are entering without trying to keep it to himself or looking down at them or using it to establish his own status.
Someone said that Ron's greatest quality is his ordinariness. But I think he's extraordinarily generous and self-sacrificing. He doesn't have to choose the friends he does, friends that will always make him feel in some ways like he's second best. But somewhere this 11-year-old boy has the confidence and the generosity to choose them anyway. He's no Peter Pettigrew tag-along, so much so that he's not even afraid to look like one.
Weeny Owl - Jan 28, 2005 2:07 pm (#1426 of 1957)
Wow, Ann. I just love what you said about Ron. What a great insight to him and his endearing quirks.
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 28, 2005 2:15 pm (#1427 of 1957)
Loved that post Ann. Really shows what a true friend Ron is to both Harry and Hermione.
Mikie
Jak Frank - Jan 28, 2005 2:38 pm (#1428 of 1957)
Well, great, but when was the last time you were moved by what Rod did? The first book? He went out like a fool (literally) in the last book. I don't dislike Ron, but he is easily the most one-dimensional (okay, maybe two dimensions in that a. he is poor and has to put up with a large family and b. he is a good friend - which, I might add - are both traits of Ginny's and not only that but she is the only girl). I'm just saying that if I had to see one of the gang go before the last battle I would want it to be Ron. Ginny, Hermoine, Luna, Fred and George, Neville... can you honestly tell me that Ron is more interesting than any one of these chracters?
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 28, 2005 2:51 pm (#1429 of 1957)
I would not want Ron to go but I think that he will towards the middle of book 7. He will be the ignition point for Harry go after Voldemort before any of the rest of his friends die. Just my 2 knuts.
Mikie
Ann - Jan 28, 2005 5:08 pm (#1430 of 1957)
**blush** Glad you guys liked my post! What a nice thread! Usually, people think I'm nuts.
As Jak clearly does. But I disagree. When was I moved by what Ron did? Constantly! He's awkward and what he does often comes off as silly, but there's an honesty about him that is truly touching. For example, when he comes downstairs, worried about Harry, in GoF and interrupts Harry's conversation with Sirius in the fire. Harry throws something at him and Ron is so clearly upset, but doesn't quite know how to make things better. And in the same book, when Ron finds out that he's paid Harry back for his binoculars with Leprechaun gold, which has vanished, and Harry has so much gold he hasn't even noticed the disappearance of what to Ron would be a fortune.
You are right that he does act a bit like a buffoon at times, but his under-his-breath type remarks are often really clever. And even there, he has the courage to be who he is. I think a lot of his strength comes from the fact that he comes from a really loving family. But as I say, to me his roundness as a character is not to be seen in individual incidents, but in his choice of friends and the facts that he supports them even as they complain about living lives he would give anything to live. That's loyalty and bravery.
Choices - Jan 28, 2005 6:03 pm (#1431 of 1957)
Congrats on two great posts, Ann - you made me love Ron even more. Thanks for that!!
dizzy lizzy - Jan 28, 2005 6:07 pm (#1432 of 1957)
What I find interesting is that after Hagrid, Ron is the second person Harry meets that Harry either likes (rules out Draco at robes shop) or has any opportunity to spend time with (rules out Fred/George initially as they hurry off to other end of train).
Lizzy
edited. (memo to self - you must proofread!!!)
Jak Frank - Jan 28, 2005 7:49 pm (#1433 of 1957)
I don't think you're nuts, Ann. I just don't agree with you. This being the Ron thread I figure that it isn't out of the ordinary for no one to agree with me, but I gotta say what I gotta say.
Also, I've noticed that while people here are sticking up for Ron, they don't seem to be going against my main point in my comparison of Ron and the rest of the gang.
Weeny Owl - Jan 28, 2005 8:23 pm (#1434 of 1957)
You are right that he does act a bit like a buffoon at times, but his under-his-breath type remarks are often really clever.
Which of us hasn't acted like a buffoon at times when we were teens? You're right, Ann, in that his remarks are clever.
As for the rest of the gang, yes I do think Ron is either more interesting or as interesting as any of them.
Harry, Hermione, Ginny, Neville, and Luna all have their own endearing qualities, and each brings to the group something unique, just as Ron does.
Fred and George, while funny and sweet, aren't really a true part of the group since they're two years ahead and have their own friends.
Ron is obviously intelligent, even if he isn't much into studying. No one can play chess as well as Ron does and not be intelligent.
I truly don't see Harry, Hermione, or Ron being killed off for a number of reasons. As for the others mentioned, it's possible, but out of all of them, I can only see either Fred or George being killed off.
Jennifer Anderson - Jan 28, 2005 8:31 pm (#1435 of 1957)
I agree with Ann about Ron. The fact that he went to the DoM says alot. He could've easily said thats your problem, but he didn't. There's no way that Ron didn't realize before he left that he could easily get badly injured or killed. Now I've heard people say that Ron didn't do well in the DoM. But nobody but Rowing is qualified to make that judgment. Because we didn't see what happened to Luna, Ginny, and Ron after they got separated from the rest of the group.
Catherine - Jan 29, 2005 2:28 pm (#1436 of 1957)
Also, I've noticed that while people here are sticking up for Ron, they don't seem to be going against my main point in my comparison of Ron and the rest of the gang. --Jak
I disagree with such a general statement, but I will try to address this concern. In my opinion, Ron is a wonderfully critical, sarcastic character who hides his insecurities behind humor.
I think that, compared to Neville, Ginny, and Luna, we know Ron better, and we take some things about him for granted. Perhaps familiarity really does breed contempt?
Ron's intense jealousy is one notable trait, and I am interested to see how this plays out in the final two books. He has shown jealousy of Hermione's and Ginny's affection in being jealous of their dates; he has shown jealousy of Harry's fame, and I think he was always jealous of the achievements of his brothers. He is so happy to earn his mother's approval in OoP with the unexpected prefect badge.
To criticize Ron for being hit with a spell that debilitated him mentally vs. physcially is quite wrong, in my opinion, and to think that that made him a buffoon or a fool is a notion that make me very uncomfortable. Damage to the mind, as we see with Neville's parents, can be more devasting than any of the physical injuries that the wizards endure, short of actual death.
Ann - Jan 29, 2005 2:37 pm (#1437 of 1957)
Catherine, I didn't mean that it was after the DoM battle that Ron acted as a buffoon or a fool. As someone pointed out above, all teenagers do that from time to time--as do the rest of us. Ron just does it with a bit more confidence than some of the others, so it is noticable. He's sort clown sometimes--and I agree that his humor is a bit defensive. But I was in no way implying that mental spell damage was amusing or his fault.
But I don't think he's really jealous of Harry or of Krum. At least not in the destructive way where jealousy really hurts the person who feels it and its object. He'd like to be famous and regarded as special the way Harry is, or to be a Quidditch star and date Hermione like Krum does, but it seems to me that it's surprisingly rare that he descends to actual jealousy. It's more often just a general sort of wistfulness.
And as far as courage is concerned, I give Ron, as well as Hermione and Ginny, full points for that trip to London on thestrals. Talk about having faith in Harry!
Catherine - Jan 29, 2005 2:47 pm (#1438 of 1957)
I should have been more specific, Ann. The buffoon remark was not addressed to you at all!
In fact, I quite agreed with your posts and was adding my own two Knuts to Jak's statement, "He went out like a fool (literally) in the last book.
In my opinion, to say this is to quite misunderstand that entire scene, and the reason for Ron's altered mental state.
sere35 - Jan 29, 2005 5:10 pm (#1439 of 1957)
I don't agree with that assessment of Ron's ability at DOM either. He got hit with a spell that incapacitated him. So did Hermoine. We never saw how he did he could of been the best out of all of them.
timrew - Jan 29, 2005 5:47 pm (#1440 of 1957)
I think a lot of people dislike Ron purely because he has a 'thing' for Hermione (and she for him). Okay, this should be on the 'Ship' thread; but I think it's relevant here also.
Another thing I think some people have forgotten, is that Ron and Harry are best mates. They'll look out for each other, to the extent that they'll even (IMO) lay down their lives for each other in the last two books.
Weeny Owl - Jan 29, 2005 8:38 pm (#1441 of 1957)
I agree totally Tim.
I've wondered how much people hating Ron has to do with age or gender.
I think he's an absolute sweetie, would love him dating my daughter if I had one, and think he is a very loyal friend, although he does have his faults, as we all do. He isn't perfect, but who would want a perfect friend. He's funny, generous, compassionate, kind, and exactly the type of person I would want guarding my back.
As the old saying goes, he may not be perfect, but he's perfect for me (or as Harry's best friend).
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 29, 2005 8:55 pm (#1442 of 1957)
Bravo Weeny Owl and timrew. Loved your comments.
Mikie
Wand Maker - Jan 29, 2005 9:02 pm (#1443 of 1957)
I feel that Ron was always a bit self conscious about not being good enough, by being Harry's sidekick.
With the information about the sextet fighting the DEs, I think that Ron will become more known/popular with his classmates in the next book. We don't know if Madam Pomphrey was able to eliminate the deep scaring of the thoughts from the brains in the ministry. They wouldn't be quite the same as Harry's ligntning bolt scar, but they are from battling the Death Eaters.
haymoni - Jan 30, 2005 12:24 pm (#1444 of 1957)
I think Ron provides the safe haven for Harry.
I know Hogwarts is a safe place, but Dumbledore isn't Ron. (I know, I know...read The Theory!)
Ron was a comfort to Harry from the beginning. He didn't fawn all over Harry. Harry found some commonality with Ron in that they both didn't have much. When Harry admitted his fear that he would be the worst student, Ron reassured Harry that he would learn everything quick enough. Thank goodness Harry met Ron before he met Draco!!
The Burrow is a safe haven as well. The name alone makes me think of someplace safe and warm. And who could be more supportive of Harry than Arthur and Molly???
The Weasleys protected him on the way to the train in Book 3. He is with Arthur and the Weasley children during a very scary time at the World Cup, but comes back to the Burrow where things are safe and Molly is there to fuss over him. (I'm still angry over the fact that Molly will not be appearing in Movie 4, but that comment is for another thread!) Book 5 brings him to Sirius but the Weasleys are there again.
Harry needs Ron, bottom line. If the only claim to fame that Ron ever has is that he was Harry Potter's best friend, that ain't too shabby!
Jak Frank - Jan 30, 2005 2:25 pm (#1445 of 1957)
I think that is pretty shabby. To only be known because you are someone famous's friend... Let me think... Yep, pretty shabby.
TomProffitt - Jan 30, 2005 3:17 pm (#1446 of 1957)
There is no doubt that Ron is overshadowed by his best friend, but don't neglect the fact that we view all of the Potterverse from Harry's point of view.
Ron has done quite a bit "off stage" and on. Such as win the quidditch cup. Such as beat the inquisitorial squad, yes he had help, but it was neither Harry or Hermione there to help him. Bet the way you like, but I'd say Ron has better grades than Harry (if nothing else because of his motivation in areas regarding Hermione.) Ron's a prefect. Ron beat McGonagall's chess set. Ron overcame the Mirror of Erised without Albus's intervention. Ron was there with Harry in the first two books and in the fifth. We know Ron can conquer his own fears, or else he never would have met Aragog.
Ron has a reputation in his own right, not because he is Harry's friend. Ron's no more of a nobody than Hermione for being Harry's friend.
mike miller - Jan 30, 2005 3:49 pm (#1447 of 1957)
Once again I must agree with you Tom. Ron has displayed true character thorugh the books, with the exception of GoF. Even then, I get the feeling Ron is trying to find a way out of the situation; however, being 14 he just doesn't know how.
Ron would die for either Harry or Hemoine without hesitation.
Choices - Jan 30, 2005 5:13 pm (#1448 of 1957)
I don't think there is one thing shabby about Ron - I would be proud for it to say on my tombstone -"She was a true and loyal friend" and that is what Ron is. Not everyone can be famous or a hero, but I think Ron is a hero in his own right. He is a good guy and he will be a good man like his father - someone who stands up for what is right and decent and someone that his best friend can always depend on to be there for him. I would hope that my daughters would marry someone just like Ron.
Paulus Maximus - Jan 30, 2005 5:50 pm (#1449 of 1957)
"Thank goodness Harry met Ron before he met Draco!!"
He didn't.
Choices - Jan 30, 2005 6:08 pm (#1450 of 1957)
Right you are Paulus. Madame Malkin's was the place where Harry first met Draco - well before meeting Ron.
It seems most of the new things are coming from Harry??
Catherine - Jan 20, 2005 4:02 pm (#1402 of 1957)
Now, that's ineresting, Dizzy Lizzy.
If we are listing Ron's new acquisitions, it does seem like they are a direct result of Ron's friendship with Harry. Hmmm. Does that have any importance later, do you think?
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 4:14 pm (#1403 of 1957)
As I recall it the hat was orange. Probably doesn't mean a lot but you never know.
Catherine - Jan 20, 2005 4:53 pm (#1404 of 1957)
Yes. The Chudley Cannon's colors are orange, so it makes sense that the hat is orange, also.
Do you have some symbolism, or specific meanings for the color orange, Steve?
That could be interesting.
Choices - Jan 20, 2005 5:20 pm (#1405 of 1957)
Ron's bedroom at home was all orange - Chudley Cannons bedspread, posters, etc.
Steve Newton - Jan 20, 2005 6:28 pm (#1406 of 1957)
Well, I've read about orange somewhere. Even done some research. I think that Round Pink Spider wrote about it(orange) in her newsletter. I'll scout around.
Amazingly, I did a quick check and in October RPS had tentatively figured out that orange meant safety.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 1:09 pm (#1407 of 1957)
I should also point out that Ron seems to have at least 5 knit sweaters. I suspect, as do many others, that Molly may have knitted some protection into them. Sort of new items.
Dr Filibuster - Jan 21, 2005 2:09 pm (#1408 of 1957)
Do you mean Ron's had 5 sweaters over his 5 Christmases at Hogwarts?
He's a growing lad, so I think he'd need a new one each year.
I like the theory that Molly has put some type of protection charm in them, but maybe they were just knitted by a loving mum? Sort of like the sock symbolism perhaps?.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 4:02 pm (#1409 of 1957)
Good thinking. Probably only the latest fits and maybe not that. Ron does seem to grow a lot.
Ann - Jan 21, 2005 4:17 pm (#1410 of 1957)
It is nice, though, that she knits them new ones (even though they complain). And that she puts their initials on them so that it is clear that they are new and not hand-me-downs. I suppose she could give Ginny George's old ones, though.
I would think they'd need a new sweater every year even if they weren't growing so quickly. The old one is probably completely out at the elbows by Christmas, what with Quidditch and all the wild horsing around.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 8:08 pm (#1411 of 1957)
Ron's wand. Is it new or another hand me down? I don't recall reading this.
Wand Maker - Jan 21, 2005 8:13 pm (#1412 of 1957)
It is never said that Ron's new wand was bought at Olivander's, but the way that he shows it off to Harry says to me that it is brand new, and chose him. Oh yes, Ron took it out of its box - another indication it was new.
Steve Newton - Jan 21, 2005 8:37 pm (#1413 of 1957)
Thanks. I don't seem to have noticed that he showed any marked improvement on his spelling. The magic kind of spelling. I couldn't tell how well he did at the MOM.
Potions Mistress - Jan 21, 2005 9:14 pm (#1414 of 1957)
I can't find the exact passage but yes, Ron's wand is new. The Weasleys won 1000 Galleons from the Daily Prophet and went to Egypt. Ron told Harry they were using what was left to buy him a new wand. (I think!)
Edit: Found it: Ch. 1 "Owl Post" PoA. Oh, and it was 700 Galleons, not 1000. But still a decent chunk change!
~pm
Steve Newton - Jan 27, 2005 6:21 am (#1415 of 1957)
In OOTP when Ron tries to go up to the girls dormitory he only makes it to the sixth step. He doesn't make it to the seventh. Is this foreshadowing that Ron will not make it to book 7? I hope not.
Choices - Jan 27, 2005 9:10 am (#1416 of 1957)
Oh, interesting observation Steve. I hope not, too.
Jak Frank - Jan 27, 2005 12:17 pm (#1417 of 1957)
I hope so.
Potions Mistress - Jan 27, 2005 12:58 pm (#1418 of 1957)
Why, Jak Frank?
Jak Frank - Jan 27, 2005 10:09 pm (#1419 of 1957)
Because if the 'worst' most one-demensional character dies, then none of the good/great characters have to die before book seven. I'm not saying that I WANT all the main characters to live (I would actually dislike that) but I would want them all to make it to the 7th book and play a key role in the final showdown. Ron... I couldn't care less about.
And PLEASE call me Jak.
Choices - Jan 28, 2005 9:33 am (#1420 of 1957)
Jak - Why such a dislike for Ron?
Ydnam96 - Jan 28, 2005 10:27 am (#1421 of 1957)
I don't think Ron is one dimensional. I think that he has a lot of depth...maybe before the Mirror of Erised scene that could be said, but there is a lot more there than we saw. Ron is caught in a unique family environment where he is the 6th boy. He is had pressed to be "special" within the family, as displayed by his desires. He also is best friends with someone who always gets the attention even though, as Harry admitted himself, Ron has pretty equal talents in just about everything but Quittich. He's just as brave as Harry. He's loyal. He's caring. He's stupid about girls, just as every boy is around that age. I think that there is a lot to Ron. Just as much as depth as say Hermione or Neville or a lot of other characters.
Choices - Jan 28, 2005 11:45 am (#1422 of 1957)
I agree - Ron has his own set of problems he has to deal with. He sometimes feels lost in the shuffle of older brothers, he resents the hand-me-downs, he resents being poor, he resents the lack of respect and esteem that his Dad gets, he resents the fame that Harry has and Harry's fancy broomsticks and Quidditch skills, and I think he resents Hermione's intelligence and the ease with which she does her lessons. Don't get me wrong, he loves Harry and Hermione, but he is envious of them. Ron is a good friend though, loyal and brave and ready to do anything for his friends. He's a good kid full of hopes and dreams and a wonderful character.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 28, 2005 12:07 pm (#1423 of 1957)
Hi,
Ron is the side-kick, the foil that the hero uses as a sounding board for his ideas.
Can you imagine Holmes without Watson; Cisco without Pancho; the Lone Ranger without Tonto? Consider all of English literature. In which series did the side kick die? In which series did the hero die?
I doubt that Ron will be killed. At the same time, this long history of heroic literature is an ill portent for Harry.
Thanks,
Steve Newton - Jan 28, 2005 12:30 pm (#1424 of 1957)
Cisco without Pancho
Wow, I thought that I was the only one who made off the cuff comments about the Cisco Kid. Suddenly I feel younger. I think.
Ann - Jan 28, 2005 2:01 pm (#1425 of 1957)
Choices: "Don't get me wrong, he loves Harry and Hermione, but he is envious of them."
Actually, I think that's the most intriguing and admirable thing about Ron. Here he is, a kid whose consuming passion (not just in the mirror of Erised--he says as much already in the scene on the train) is to stand out, to excel in some way of his own. And yet he almost immediately becomes the best friend of the most famous (in sports and magic) wizard and the smartest witch in his class (and the entire school). And when their positions bring them grief, he's (generally) sympathetic and supportive. In addition, Hermione's a Muggle-born, and Harry was raised that way, and he shares with them all the knowledge of the world they are entering without trying to keep it to himself or looking down at them or using it to establish his own status.
Someone said that Ron's greatest quality is his ordinariness. But I think he's extraordinarily generous and self-sacrificing. He doesn't have to choose the friends he does, friends that will always make him feel in some ways like he's second best. But somewhere this 11-year-old boy has the confidence and the generosity to choose them anyway. He's no Peter Pettigrew tag-along, so much so that he's not even afraid to look like one.
Weeny Owl - Jan 28, 2005 2:07 pm (#1426 of 1957)
Wow, Ann. I just love what you said about Ron. What a great insight to him and his endearing quirks.
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 28, 2005 2:15 pm (#1427 of 1957)
Loved that post Ann. Really shows what a true friend Ron is to both Harry and Hermione.
Mikie
Jak Frank - Jan 28, 2005 2:38 pm (#1428 of 1957)
Well, great, but when was the last time you were moved by what Rod did? The first book? He went out like a fool (literally) in the last book. I don't dislike Ron, but he is easily the most one-dimensional (okay, maybe two dimensions in that a. he is poor and has to put up with a large family and b. he is a good friend - which, I might add - are both traits of Ginny's and not only that but she is the only girl). I'm just saying that if I had to see one of the gang go before the last battle I would want it to be Ron. Ginny, Hermoine, Luna, Fred and George, Neville... can you honestly tell me that Ron is more interesting than any one of these chracters?
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 28, 2005 2:51 pm (#1429 of 1957)
I would not want Ron to go but I think that he will towards the middle of book 7. He will be the ignition point for Harry go after Voldemort before any of the rest of his friends die. Just my 2 knuts.
Mikie
Ann - Jan 28, 2005 5:08 pm (#1430 of 1957)
**blush** Glad you guys liked my post! What a nice thread! Usually, people think I'm nuts.
As Jak clearly does. But I disagree. When was I moved by what Ron did? Constantly! He's awkward and what he does often comes off as silly, but there's an honesty about him that is truly touching. For example, when he comes downstairs, worried about Harry, in GoF and interrupts Harry's conversation with Sirius in the fire. Harry throws something at him and Ron is so clearly upset, but doesn't quite know how to make things better. And in the same book, when Ron finds out that he's paid Harry back for his binoculars with Leprechaun gold, which has vanished, and Harry has so much gold he hasn't even noticed the disappearance of what to Ron would be a fortune.
You are right that he does act a bit like a buffoon at times, but his under-his-breath type remarks are often really clever. And even there, he has the courage to be who he is. I think a lot of his strength comes from the fact that he comes from a really loving family. But as I say, to me his roundness as a character is not to be seen in individual incidents, but in his choice of friends and the facts that he supports them even as they complain about living lives he would give anything to live. That's loyalty and bravery.
Choices - Jan 28, 2005 6:03 pm (#1431 of 1957)
Congrats on two great posts, Ann - you made me love Ron even more. Thanks for that!!
dizzy lizzy - Jan 28, 2005 6:07 pm (#1432 of 1957)
What I find interesting is that after Hagrid, Ron is the second person Harry meets that Harry either likes (rules out Draco at robes shop) or has any opportunity to spend time with (rules out Fred/George initially as they hurry off to other end of train).
Lizzy
edited. (memo to self - you must proofread!!!)
Jak Frank - Jan 28, 2005 7:49 pm (#1433 of 1957)
I don't think you're nuts, Ann. I just don't agree with you. This being the Ron thread I figure that it isn't out of the ordinary for no one to agree with me, but I gotta say what I gotta say.
Also, I've noticed that while people here are sticking up for Ron, they don't seem to be going against my main point in my comparison of Ron and the rest of the gang.
Weeny Owl - Jan 28, 2005 8:23 pm (#1434 of 1957)
You are right that he does act a bit like a buffoon at times, but his under-his-breath type remarks are often really clever.
Which of us hasn't acted like a buffoon at times when we were teens? You're right, Ann, in that his remarks are clever.
As for the rest of the gang, yes I do think Ron is either more interesting or as interesting as any of them.
Harry, Hermione, Ginny, Neville, and Luna all have their own endearing qualities, and each brings to the group something unique, just as Ron does.
Fred and George, while funny and sweet, aren't really a true part of the group since they're two years ahead and have their own friends.
Ron is obviously intelligent, even if he isn't much into studying. No one can play chess as well as Ron does and not be intelligent.
I truly don't see Harry, Hermione, or Ron being killed off for a number of reasons. As for the others mentioned, it's possible, but out of all of them, I can only see either Fred or George being killed off.
Jennifer Anderson - Jan 28, 2005 8:31 pm (#1435 of 1957)
I agree with Ann about Ron. The fact that he went to the DoM says alot. He could've easily said thats your problem, but he didn't. There's no way that Ron didn't realize before he left that he could easily get badly injured or killed. Now I've heard people say that Ron didn't do well in the DoM. But nobody but Rowing is qualified to make that judgment. Because we didn't see what happened to Luna, Ginny, and Ron after they got separated from the rest of the group.
Catherine - Jan 29, 2005 2:28 pm (#1436 of 1957)
Also, I've noticed that while people here are sticking up for Ron, they don't seem to be going against my main point in my comparison of Ron and the rest of the gang. --Jak
I disagree with such a general statement, but I will try to address this concern. In my opinion, Ron is a wonderfully critical, sarcastic character who hides his insecurities behind humor.
I think that, compared to Neville, Ginny, and Luna, we know Ron better, and we take some things about him for granted. Perhaps familiarity really does breed contempt?
Ron's intense jealousy is one notable trait, and I am interested to see how this plays out in the final two books. He has shown jealousy of Hermione's and Ginny's affection in being jealous of their dates; he has shown jealousy of Harry's fame, and I think he was always jealous of the achievements of his brothers. He is so happy to earn his mother's approval in OoP with the unexpected prefect badge.
To criticize Ron for being hit with a spell that debilitated him mentally vs. physcially is quite wrong, in my opinion, and to think that that made him a buffoon or a fool is a notion that make me very uncomfortable. Damage to the mind, as we see with Neville's parents, can be more devasting than any of the physical injuries that the wizards endure, short of actual death.
Ann - Jan 29, 2005 2:37 pm (#1437 of 1957)
Catherine, I didn't mean that it was after the DoM battle that Ron acted as a buffoon or a fool. As someone pointed out above, all teenagers do that from time to time--as do the rest of us. Ron just does it with a bit more confidence than some of the others, so it is noticable. He's sort clown sometimes--and I agree that his humor is a bit defensive. But I was in no way implying that mental spell damage was amusing or his fault.
But I don't think he's really jealous of Harry or of Krum. At least not in the destructive way where jealousy really hurts the person who feels it and its object. He'd like to be famous and regarded as special the way Harry is, or to be a Quidditch star and date Hermione like Krum does, but it seems to me that it's surprisingly rare that he descends to actual jealousy. It's more often just a general sort of wistfulness.
And as far as courage is concerned, I give Ron, as well as Hermione and Ginny, full points for that trip to London on thestrals. Talk about having faith in Harry!
Catherine - Jan 29, 2005 2:47 pm (#1438 of 1957)
I should have been more specific, Ann. The buffoon remark was not addressed to you at all!
In fact, I quite agreed with your posts and was adding my own two Knuts to Jak's statement, "He went out like a fool (literally) in the last book.
In my opinion, to say this is to quite misunderstand that entire scene, and the reason for Ron's altered mental state.
sere35 - Jan 29, 2005 5:10 pm (#1439 of 1957)
I don't agree with that assessment of Ron's ability at DOM either. He got hit with a spell that incapacitated him. So did Hermoine. We never saw how he did he could of been the best out of all of them.
timrew - Jan 29, 2005 5:47 pm (#1440 of 1957)
I think a lot of people dislike Ron purely because he has a 'thing' for Hermione (and she for him). Okay, this should be on the 'Ship' thread; but I think it's relevant here also.
Another thing I think some people have forgotten, is that Ron and Harry are best mates. They'll look out for each other, to the extent that they'll even (IMO) lay down their lives for each other in the last two books.
Weeny Owl - Jan 29, 2005 8:38 pm (#1441 of 1957)
I agree totally Tim.
I've wondered how much people hating Ron has to do with age or gender.
I think he's an absolute sweetie, would love him dating my daughter if I had one, and think he is a very loyal friend, although he does have his faults, as we all do. He isn't perfect, but who would want a perfect friend. He's funny, generous, compassionate, kind, and exactly the type of person I would want guarding my back.
As the old saying goes, he may not be perfect, but he's perfect for me (or as Harry's best friend).
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 29, 2005 8:55 pm (#1442 of 1957)
Bravo Weeny Owl and timrew. Loved your comments.
Mikie
Wand Maker - Jan 29, 2005 9:02 pm (#1443 of 1957)
I feel that Ron was always a bit self conscious about not being good enough, by being Harry's sidekick.
With the information about the sextet fighting the DEs, I think that Ron will become more known/popular with his classmates in the next book. We don't know if Madam Pomphrey was able to eliminate the deep scaring of the thoughts from the brains in the ministry. They wouldn't be quite the same as Harry's ligntning bolt scar, but they are from battling the Death Eaters.
haymoni - Jan 30, 2005 12:24 pm (#1444 of 1957)
I think Ron provides the safe haven for Harry.
I know Hogwarts is a safe place, but Dumbledore isn't Ron. (I know, I know...read The Theory!)
Ron was a comfort to Harry from the beginning. He didn't fawn all over Harry. Harry found some commonality with Ron in that they both didn't have much. When Harry admitted his fear that he would be the worst student, Ron reassured Harry that he would learn everything quick enough. Thank goodness Harry met Ron before he met Draco!!
The Burrow is a safe haven as well. The name alone makes me think of someplace safe and warm. And who could be more supportive of Harry than Arthur and Molly???
The Weasleys protected him on the way to the train in Book 3. He is with Arthur and the Weasley children during a very scary time at the World Cup, but comes back to the Burrow where things are safe and Molly is there to fuss over him. (I'm still angry over the fact that Molly will not be appearing in Movie 4, but that comment is for another thread!) Book 5 brings him to Sirius but the Weasleys are there again.
Harry needs Ron, bottom line. If the only claim to fame that Ron ever has is that he was Harry Potter's best friend, that ain't too shabby!
Jak Frank - Jan 30, 2005 2:25 pm (#1445 of 1957)
I think that is pretty shabby. To only be known because you are someone famous's friend... Let me think... Yep, pretty shabby.
TomProffitt - Jan 30, 2005 3:17 pm (#1446 of 1957)
There is no doubt that Ron is overshadowed by his best friend, but don't neglect the fact that we view all of the Potterverse from Harry's point of view.
Ron has done quite a bit "off stage" and on. Such as win the quidditch cup. Such as beat the inquisitorial squad, yes he had help, but it was neither Harry or Hermione there to help him. Bet the way you like, but I'd say Ron has better grades than Harry (if nothing else because of his motivation in areas regarding Hermione.) Ron's a prefect. Ron beat McGonagall's chess set. Ron overcame the Mirror of Erised without Albus's intervention. Ron was there with Harry in the first two books and in the fifth. We know Ron can conquer his own fears, or else he never would have met Aragog.
Ron has a reputation in his own right, not because he is Harry's friend. Ron's no more of a nobody than Hermione for being Harry's friend.
mike miller - Jan 30, 2005 3:49 pm (#1447 of 1957)
Once again I must agree with you Tom. Ron has displayed true character thorugh the books, with the exception of GoF. Even then, I get the feeling Ron is trying to find a way out of the situation; however, being 14 he just doesn't know how.
Ron would die for either Harry or Hemoine without hesitation.
Choices - Jan 30, 2005 5:13 pm (#1448 of 1957)
I don't think there is one thing shabby about Ron - I would be proud for it to say on my tombstone -"She was a true and loyal friend" and that is what Ron is. Not everyone can be famous or a hero, but I think Ron is a hero in his own right. He is a good guy and he will be a good man like his father - someone who stands up for what is right and decent and someone that his best friend can always depend on to be there for him. I would hope that my daughters would marry someone just like Ron.
Paulus Maximus - Jan 30, 2005 5:50 pm (#1449 of 1957)
"Thank goodness Harry met Ron before he met Draco!!"
He didn't.
Choices - Jan 30, 2005 6:08 pm (#1450 of 1957)
Right you are Paulus. Madame Malkin's was the place where Harry first met Draco - well before meeting Ron.
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Weeny Owl - Jan 31, 2005 12:41 am (#1451 of 1957)
I don't think there is one thing shabby about Ron - I would be proud for it to say on my tombstone -"She was a true and loyal friend" and that is what Ron is. Not everyone can be famous or a hero, but I think Ron is a hero in his own right. He is a good guy and he will be a good man like his father - someone who stands up for what is right and decent and someone that his best friend can always depend on to be there for him. I would hope that my daughters would marry someone just like Ron.
I agree with you completely, Choices.
Ron is an individual who, just like every single one of us, has his flaws. He also has a great deal going for him, and part of that is his kindness, his generosity, and his compassion. He may not have much money, but he is generous with himself, and that's much more important.
Ann [/b]- Jan 31, 2005 8:05 am (#1452 of 1957)
Jak: "I think that is pretty shabby. To only be known because you are someone famous's friend... Let me think... Yep, pretty shabby."
The reason for this impasse, I think, Jak, that you seem to be judging Ron based on the basis of fame and notoriety in the larger society, while most of the rest of us here are looking at his character and his value to his closest friends. Many of the best people, who make the greatest contribution to the world, are not at all famous; and of course many famous people (think Lockhart) make no contribution at all. And one may be famous as a friend and still be a good friend and a good and valuable person.
I think one of the things we are seeing with Ron and to an even greater extent with Neville is the growing realization that other people's view of you is less important than your own satisfaction with yourself and your own actions. In PS/SS, Ron badly wants to stand out from his successful brothers. I think he had a real personal crisis in GoF, where so many readers were disgusted with him for his disloyalty to Harry. I think that's when he had to deal with the realization that Harry would always be the leader, always be the one who had the most fame, notoriety, and popular attention. He was clearly angry at this initially, and separated himself from Harry in an attempt to keep from being what Jak describes, a person who is only known as a sidekick. He is seeing public acclaim as the greatest good. And Harry, who is himself having to deal with the other side of the coin--the misery of fame, public scrutiny, and public jealousy--is justifiably angry to have the support on which he depends withdrawn. But he doesn't realize (though Hermione tries to tell him) how difficult it is for Ron to deal with his increased fame. Ron really has to change the whole way he thinks of himself and judges his own actions before he can truly be Harry's friend again.
I think it is very significant that it is Ron that made the first moves to heal this breach--the first one is rebuffed when he accidentally cuts off Sirius's floo visit, but the second occurs when he sees Harry face the dragon alone. Harry does very well, of course, but I think that Ron's realization of the importance of his role comes before he does well--when he sees Harry walking out to deal with the dragon without Ron's support.
Ron seems to have realized at that point that he doesn't want Harry to face his dragons alone in the future. When they meet afterwards, he doesn't praise Harry's performance, as Hermione does, but looks at Harry as though he were a ghost and tells him very efficiently that he believes what Harry said initially about someone submitting his name and that he agrees that someone is trying to do Harry harm. Only later does he congratulate Harry on his triumph. His initial focus is on the danger his friend has faced alone and his own guilt. I don't think Ron will ever resent Harry's fame again. I think he's begun to realize his own true role and its importance.
(Sorry for the ridiculously long post.)
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 31, 2005 11:09 am (#1453 of 1957)
Very long but excellant post, Ann. Very well put, a round of butterbeers for all.
Mikie
Catherine - Jan 31, 2005 11:24 am (#1454 of 1957)
I agree with your assessment of Ron's character, Ann, and excellent post, byt the way.
Jak: "I think that is pretty shabby. To only be known because you are someone famous's friend... Let me think... Yep, pretty shabby."
Hmm. Well, I don't think that your statement is really quite true, Jak. Ron is known as more than Harry's friend. In fact, he is more widely known as a Weasley. Draco and Mrs. Longbottom had never met Ron before, but they knew his familial ties immediately.
Ron also earned a special award in his second year, and was the hero of the final Quidditch match which earned Gryffindor the House Cup.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 31, 2005 11:34 am (#1455 of 1957)
Weasley is our King! Go Gryffindors!
haymoni- Jan 31, 2005 6:55 pm (#1456 of 1957)
OK - let me clarify.
First of all, I know perfectly well that Harry ran into a blonde-haired boy at Madame Maulkin's. However, he met Ron and got to know him before smarmy Malfoy and his cronies showed up. My point was, what if Harry had been sitting on the train by himself and Draco appeared first - "Hey, didn't I see you getting fitted for robes?" Ugh!
Secondly, most of us will go through life without being famous or note-worthy or even infamous. My point was that Ron could do a lot worse than just being connected with Harry Potter.
Jak Frank - Jan 31, 2005 11:20 pm (#1457 of 1957)
You guys are looking far too deeply into that post. I was replying to this statement:
<If the only claim to fame that Ron ever has is that he was Harry Potter's best friend, that ain't too shabby!>
I didn't mean to imply that Ron was only known as Harry's sidekick (as Ann said I pointed out). In fact, I agree with most of you. If I could chose any best friend out of the books it would be Ron. No one is doubting that he if he were real, he would be a great person that you had to stick up for. He is very REAL.
However, this is not real life. This is a work of fiction, and Ron is ordinary. He's Seamus, Lavander, Wood. I mean, these characters are great, but there is a reason they are in the background. Ron is the star of the background characters.
Wand Maker - Feb 1, 2005 6:01 pm (#1458 of 1957)
haymoni , I don't think that there was any danger in Harry becoming friends with Draco, regardless of Harry meeting Ron. While getting fitted, "He was liking the boy less and less every second".
a bit later...
"and Harry, not sorry for an excuse to stop talking to the boy, hopped down from the footstool."
Harry could see the geniuneness in Ron and his family early on.
Paulus Maximus - Feb 1, 2005 8:22 pm (#1459 of 1957)
And he was reminded of Dudley, too.
Of course, everything he had said about his parents bespoke a "spoiled prince"...
Choices - Feb 2, 2005 9:32 am (#1460 of 1957)
Of course, everything he had said about his parents bespoke a "spoiled prince"... Paulus
Yikes, what if Draco finds out he is a half-blood and is the HBP? We know Narcissa is a pure blood, but we know nothing of Lucius' background.
Ann - Feb 2, 2005 1:15 pm (#1461 of 1957)
Well, Lucius is a DE, and Jo says that means at least half-blood.
Potions Mistress - Feb 2, 2005 4:34 pm (#1462 of 1957)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I might've misread something about DE's "bloodline", but I thought that LV was very akin to Hitler and wanted only "purebloods." ???
Back to Ron: as was stated somewhere here before, when Harry first met Ron, there was no "hero-worship," just genuine friendship. I also think that the fight in GOF strengthened that friendship in the end, because the two are like brothers. I've had some pretty bad fights with some friends, but many times in the end, we forgive each other (half the time we don't even remember what the fight was about), and our friendship is stronger for it.
~pm
Jak Frank - Feb 3, 2005 8:02 pm (#1463 of 1957)
Yeah. I am fairly certain that every DE is a pureblood.
Eponine - Feb 4, 2005 3:56 am (#1464 of 1957)
No, JKR said about DE regarding Snape:
He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances.
From the Edinburgh Book Festival
Joanne R. Reid - Feb 4, 2005 7:34 am (#1465 of 1957)
It's ironic, isn't it?
Hitler was an Austrian with a Jewish grandmother or something. Yet, he demanded Aryan purity of everyone else. Tom Riddle is a Mudblood, yet requires all of his followers to be pure bloods.
Hitler and Voldemort are two examples of extreme self-hatred and loathing. Hitler committed suicide. Evidently, Voldemort can't.
Then, there's our tri-heroes: Ron, the pure-blood; Harry the half-blood; Hermione the Mudblood.
I love the irony.
Thanks,
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 4, 2005 10:42 am (#1466 of 1957)
Actually, Joanne, Tom was a half-blood, but its the same principle
Potions Mistress - Feb 4, 2005 4:06 pm (#1467 of 1957)
Hmmm...maybe that's why I thought that LV only allowed "purebloods" to be DE's--the similar self-hatred envisaged in Hitler. Maybe if Snape turns out to be the HBP, that will answer our question regarding this! ;-)
I can also see Ron being a target of the DE's not only for being Harry's friend, specifically, but for being friends with the "Mudbloods" in general. (That could also apply to the rest of the Weasley family, too.)
~pm
Joanne R. Reid - Feb 5, 2005 10:48 am (#1468 of 1957)
Thanks, Matilda,
You're quite correct. Sometimes my fingers go faster than my brain. Obviously, this was one of those times.
I stand corrected: both Tom Riddle and Harry Potter are half-bloods.
Thanks,
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 5, 2005 2:07 pm (#1469 of 1957)
You are very welcome.
I have a random question. I have been thinking recently about Ron's relationship with Ginny. They are only a year apart, the closest in age than any of the other Weasleys, and they seem to get on fairly well. It seems that Ron doesn't mind Ginny hanging around the trio as much in OOtP as he did in the other books, so just out of curiosity, and the need for this thread to take a happy turn, what do the rest of you think about thier relationship? Do you think they know about each others love interests? I think they do, I mean Ginny is perceptive and I believe she has noticed how Ron feels about Hermione, and, whether or not Ron knows who Ginny likes, I think he wants her to be with Harry.
Now, Ron's relationship with Hermione changes a bit in OoP in the sence that as he is becoming more aware of his feelings for her (and imo, her feelings for him) he seems to be more aware of feelings in general. There is one part, near the end of Oop that makes me think he wants Ginny and Harry to be together. I believe its the part where they are on the train and Ron says "Just choose someone better next time" and casts an odd look towards Harry.
Ok, that was a lot of rambling, basically I am just curious as to what you all think about Ron and Ginny's relationship.
Choices - Feb 5, 2005 5:15 pm (#1470 of 1957)
I think up through book 2, Ron doesn't notice Ginny very much - she's just his little sister. But, after she is almost killed in the Chamber of Secrets by Tom Riddle, I think Ron takes a different attitude towards Ginny. They are both growing up and Ron takes a more protective attitude towards Ginny - I might even say a somewhat "fatherly" concern for who she is dating. Ginny is a smart little witch and she is more aware of what is going on than Ron seems to be. She was the one who comforted Ron after he impulsively asks Fleur to the Yule Ball and then is so embarrassed that he did. I think they are looking out for each other more since book 2. She loves Ron and he loves her, but I do think it is her brother Bill, and always will be Bill, who has a special place in Ginny's heart.
Eponine - Feb 5, 2005 5:28 pm (#1471 of 1957)
I think that when they were growing up, they played together a lot. It seems to me that Bill and Charlie would pair up, Percy seems to be a bit of a loner in the family, and Fred and George are a ready made pair. This leaves Ron and Ginny. There is nothing to substantiate this, it's just my presupposition.
I do think that Ron would occasionally drop her to play with the big boys, but I tend to think that they had and continue to have a close relationship. Once Ron went off to school, the dynamics between them changed quite a bit, and Ginny likely felt quite left out which is why the diary was so dangerous for her.
After the diary/chamber incident, we don't really see much interaction between the two of them until GoF, but they seem to have a comfortable relationship.
As they get older, Ron is more comfortable with having her around him and his friends because she's growing up. He's beginning to accept her as more of a peer than as a little sister.
I think it's sweet that he's protective of her regarding boys, and I do think Ginny knows exactly how Ron feels about Hermione. However, I'm not sure if he knows she knows.
To sum up a rather rambling post, I love the relationship between Ron and Ginny. I think they are close, but we don't always get to see that closeness because Harry is our window, and he's not always looking that way.
pottermom34 - Feb 5, 2005 10:37 pm (#1472 of 1957)
in going with your "pairing up" theme and Percy being a single wasn't Percy also the only one not to play Quidditch. ( correct me if I'm wrong) Charlie and bill played then the twins played then ron & Ginny played. Just an observation.
Marie E. - Feb 6, 2005 2:35 pm (#1473 of 1957)
I believe you are right, pottermom. There isn't any mention of Percy playing Quidditch. How lonely that must feel for him, to be the only one in a family of seven siblings not to play.
Choices - Feb 6, 2005 5:29 pm (#1474 of 1957)
I doubt Percy feels left out. He probably looks down his nose at the others because he finds the thickness of cauldron bottoms to be far more interesting. He's a self important little git!
Eric Bailey - Feb 6, 2005 11:50 pm (#1475 of 1957)
Percy has different interests. Hermione's not obsessed with Quiddich, either, remember. Percy was more concerned with his grades, and getting into leadership positions. Unless you go pro, and make a career out of it, who's going to care about how well you did at quiddich after you've graduated? I can see, for example, Draco having his quiddich seekership at school being the highlight of his life, being one of those guys who doesn't amount to anything once school is done, and he's no longer the Big Man On Campus.
Jak Frank - Feb 8, 2005 4:30 am (#1476 of 1957)
Are you saying that Draco is actually Al Bundy in disguise?
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 8, 2005 11:32 am (#1477 of 1957)
Awsome you guys. I agree with just about everything you all have said regarding Ron and Ginny. I think they are pretty close, and I think they will get closer.
Eric Bailey - Feb 8, 2005 1:51 pm (#1478 of 1957)
Well, I was thinking more in terms of the quarterback in Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion.
You have to keep in mind Draco's purpose in the books, every bully, cliqish snob, and racist you met in school all rolled up into one character. They seem like your nemesis, at first, but after a while you recognize them as the umimportant losers that they are. They HAVE to behave the way they do because they have nothing else going for them.
Where Ron will have his moment of really maturing is when he recognizes what Harry did at the end of OotP, and what Luna did from the moment she met Draco, that Draco is really beneath him. Ron has always felt very insecure comparing himself to Draco, due to the money and, well, mainly the money. Draco's always been able to get to Ron, make him feel inferior. But, Ron really needs to compare their respective accomplishments, what they've each done in their lives. Once he does, he'll recognize Draco for the complete duffer that he is.
I do hope Draco does his usual song and dance about how poor Ron's dad is, so Ron can retort with "At least MY dad doesn't have to be careful not to drop the soap".
TwinklingBlueEyes - Feb 9, 2005 11:08 am (#1479 of 1957)
"At least MY dad doesn't have to be careful not to drop the soap".
The thought of Dememtor guards popped into my mind, and I just lost it! ROFL!!!!!!
Ron would love that mental picture!
hellocello3200 - Feb 28, 2005 4:16 pm (#1480 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron!
Sticky Glue - Feb 28, 2005 4:58 pm (#1481 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron
MickeyCee3948 - Feb 28, 2005 6:24 pm (#1482 of 1957)
Happy Birthday, Ronald.
Mikie
Joanne R. Reid - Mar 1, 2005 11:25 am (#1483 of 1957)
Happy Birthday, Ron! And, many, many more!
Thanks,
Czarina II - Mar 1, 2005 2:17 pm (#1484 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron! Hope you're still alive.
Hollywand - Mar 1, 2005 7:08 pm (#1485 of 1957)
I think it's a hilarious bit of irony on Rowling's part that she would begin March with Ron's birthday and follow up with Mungo Bonham as Wizard of the Month. Poor Ron had a terrible time of it from the healer portraits at St. Mungo's!
Leif Asgeirsson - Mar 6, 2005 6:53 pm (#1486 of 1957)
Is Ron really not too bright, or does he just not care much about grades?
Ladybug220 - Mar 6, 2005 7:07 pm (#1487 of 1957)
I think that Ron is bright but he is the classic example of a person that needs to apply himself to his studies.
Choices - Mar 6, 2005 7:23 pm (#1488 of 1957)
I think it has been pointed out that Ron and Harry make about the same grades. Ron is smart, he is just lazy and likes to let Hermione do the work for him. He doesn't want to apply himself. He needs to develope a better work ethic.
Ydnam96 - Mar 6, 2005 9:37 pm (#1489 of 1957)
I agree. Ron is smart. Look at all his brothers. They are all smart. They have all just chosen to use their brians in different ways. I would venture to say that Ron is going to be slightly more apt to pay attention and do well in school this coming two years if he plans on being an Auror and given the situation with the Order and all that. He will want to prove himself, remember he wants to be head boy and all that.
wwtMask - Mar 7, 2005 7:40 am (#1490 of 1957)
Ron thinks he'll never be able to match up to his brothers or that, even if he does, it won't be special because two of his brothers have already achieve the pinnacle of academia for a student at Hogwarts. His only motivation, then, is to maintain decent grades. Other than that, Ron has to be interested in specific subject matter before he applies himself more.
TomProffitt - Mar 7, 2005 9:08 am (#1491 of 1957)
We don't really know how smart Ron is. We just know he doesn't like to do homework.
I was considered to be pretty smart and I didn't like homework any better than, Ron. I didn't put any more effort into it than him, either. I bet I drove my teachers nuts.
I think Ron is smarter than Harry, but there really isn't anyway to know. I doubt Jo's going to show us their report cards. Of course OWLs are due. I imagine that will tell us something.
Detail Seeker - Mar 7, 2005 1:23 pm (#1492 of 1957)
There have to be some reasons, why ron was made prefect, not Seamus or Dean. It cannot just have been the fact, that Ron was partaking in all the adventures with Harry and Hermione.If he was a bad student, he would not have been chosen. What we have heard about his grades was, that he passed all his end-of-year- exams, as did Harry. So I do think, he is quite par with Harry. It is just in the movies, that he is portrayed as a bit simple.
GryffEndora - Mar 7, 2005 1:31 pm (#1493 of 1957)
I agree, one thing I have been meaning to go back and check out was how Ron does in Potions compared to Harry. I can clearly remember Neville often having bad potions but I can't quite recall how Ron did. I do remember though that he out scored Harry on the 1st Potions essay of OWL year, (Pathetic over Dreadful).
S.E. Jones - Mar 7, 2005 9:09 pm (#1494 of 1957)
I think you mean Poor, not Pathetic.
Also, you do have to have something in the way of smarts to be witty, which I think Ron is.
Ponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:52 pm (#1495 of 1957)
I think that Harry and Ron both are like most teenage boys in this aspect - they don't really care too much about classwork and grades, because there are so many other interesting and important issues at hand. Plus, of course, if Ron really made an effort and did all his stuff on time and properly, Hermione would not have to help them correct and read over their papers, and I for one thinks Ron really kind of likes Hermione's attention.
GryffEndora - Mar 9, 2005 11:02 am (#1496 of 1957)
S.E. Jones, Thanks! I had to chuckle that while trying to talk up Ron's academiic skills I actually made him sound worse. I would definately take Poor over Pathetic any day.
Ydnam96 - Mar 11, 2005 9:04 pm (#1497 of 1957)
Isn't there a point after Ron gets his Prefect Badge where Harry argues with himself about Ron's qualifications vs. his own? I think in those moments we hear Harry say that Ron is really on par with Harry himself in everything but quittich really. (as far as grades and spells and all that)
S.E. Jones - Mar 11, 2005 9:21 pm (#1498 of 1957)
I think I found the passage:
I'm better at Quidditch, said the voice. But I'm not better at anything else.
That was definitely true, Harry thought; he was no better than Ron in lessons.
(OotP, pg166, US)
wwtMask - Mar 14, 2005 7:16 am (#1499 of 1957)
He forgot to mention DADA. I think it's fair to say that Harry is the best in his year (and all the other years, for that matter) at DADA.
Phoenix song - Mar 14, 2005 7:44 am (#1500 of 1957)
I don't think that Harry ever realized that he had beaten Hermione grade-wise in DADA until she had pointed it out to him later on in OotP. He believed that he and Ron were neck-and-neck with their grades, and they well might have been since they copied off one another so frequently. **wink, wink**
Practically speaking, Harry is of course better than any other student at fighting the Dark Arts. I think that he tends to mentally discount that judging by the way that he responded when Hermione and Ron tried to talk him into teaching them DADA. Remember all of his "That was just luck" and "I had help with that" statements?
I think in his mental comparison with Ron, Harry would not have considered himself to be better than Ron even in DADA. So this particular comparison point probably never enters his consciousness except during times that he feels that he is being "suffocated" with protection and isolation and wants to remind those around him how often he has faced danger in the past.
Barbie
I don't think there is one thing shabby about Ron - I would be proud for it to say on my tombstone -"She was a true and loyal friend" and that is what Ron is. Not everyone can be famous or a hero, but I think Ron is a hero in his own right. He is a good guy and he will be a good man like his father - someone who stands up for what is right and decent and someone that his best friend can always depend on to be there for him. I would hope that my daughters would marry someone just like Ron.
I agree with you completely, Choices.
Ron is an individual who, just like every single one of us, has his flaws. He also has a great deal going for him, and part of that is his kindness, his generosity, and his compassion. He may not have much money, but he is generous with himself, and that's much more important.
Ann [/b]- Jan 31, 2005 8:05 am (#1452 of 1957)
Jak: "I think that is pretty shabby. To only be known because you are someone famous's friend... Let me think... Yep, pretty shabby."
The reason for this impasse, I think, Jak, that you seem to be judging Ron based on the basis of fame and notoriety in the larger society, while most of the rest of us here are looking at his character and his value to his closest friends. Many of the best people, who make the greatest contribution to the world, are not at all famous; and of course many famous people (think Lockhart) make no contribution at all. And one may be famous as a friend and still be a good friend and a good and valuable person.
I think one of the things we are seeing with Ron and to an even greater extent with Neville is the growing realization that other people's view of you is less important than your own satisfaction with yourself and your own actions. In PS/SS, Ron badly wants to stand out from his successful brothers. I think he had a real personal crisis in GoF, where so many readers were disgusted with him for his disloyalty to Harry. I think that's when he had to deal with the realization that Harry would always be the leader, always be the one who had the most fame, notoriety, and popular attention. He was clearly angry at this initially, and separated himself from Harry in an attempt to keep from being what Jak describes, a person who is only known as a sidekick. He is seeing public acclaim as the greatest good. And Harry, who is himself having to deal with the other side of the coin--the misery of fame, public scrutiny, and public jealousy--is justifiably angry to have the support on which he depends withdrawn. But he doesn't realize (though Hermione tries to tell him) how difficult it is for Ron to deal with his increased fame. Ron really has to change the whole way he thinks of himself and judges his own actions before he can truly be Harry's friend again.
I think it is very significant that it is Ron that made the first moves to heal this breach--the first one is rebuffed when he accidentally cuts off Sirius's floo visit, but the second occurs when he sees Harry face the dragon alone. Harry does very well, of course, but I think that Ron's realization of the importance of his role comes before he does well--when he sees Harry walking out to deal with the dragon without Ron's support.
Ron seems to have realized at that point that he doesn't want Harry to face his dragons alone in the future. When they meet afterwards, he doesn't praise Harry's performance, as Hermione does, but looks at Harry as though he were a ghost and tells him very efficiently that he believes what Harry said initially about someone submitting his name and that he agrees that someone is trying to do Harry harm. Only later does he congratulate Harry on his triumph. His initial focus is on the danger his friend has faced alone and his own guilt. I don't think Ron will ever resent Harry's fame again. I think he's begun to realize his own true role and its importance.
(Sorry for the ridiculously long post.)
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 31, 2005 11:09 am (#1453 of 1957)
Very long but excellant post, Ann. Very well put, a round of butterbeers for all.
Mikie
Catherine - Jan 31, 2005 11:24 am (#1454 of 1957)
I agree with your assessment of Ron's character, Ann, and excellent post, byt the way.
Jak: "I think that is pretty shabby. To only be known because you are someone famous's friend... Let me think... Yep, pretty shabby."
Hmm. Well, I don't think that your statement is really quite true, Jak. Ron is known as more than Harry's friend. In fact, he is more widely known as a Weasley. Draco and Mrs. Longbottom had never met Ron before, but they knew his familial ties immediately.
Ron also earned a special award in his second year, and was the hero of the final Quidditch match which earned Gryffindor the House Cup.
Joanne R. Reid - Jan 31, 2005 11:34 am (#1455 of 1957)
Weasley is our King! Go Gryffindors!
haymoni- Jan 31, 2005 6:55 pm (#1456 of 1957)
OK - let me clarify.
First of all, I know perfectly well that Harry ran into a blonde-haired boy at Madame Maulkin's. However, he met Ron and got to know him before smarmy Malfoy and his cronies showed up. My point was, what if Harry had been sitting on the train by himself and Draco appeared first - "Hey, didn't I see you getting fitted for robes?" Ugh!
Secondly, most of us will go through life without being famous or note-worthy or even infamous. My point was that Ron could do a lot worse than just being connected with Harry Potter.
Jak Frank - Jan 31, 2005 11:20 pm (#1457 of 1957)
You guys are looking far too deeply into that post. I was replying to this statement:
<If the only claim to fame that Ron ever has is that he was Harry Potter's best friend, that ain't too shabby!>
I didn't mean to imply that Ron was only known as Harry's sidekick (as Ann said I pointed out). In fact, I agree with most of you. If I could chose any best friend out of the books it would be Ron. No one is doubting that he if he were real, he would be a great person that you had to stick up for. He is very REAL.
However, this is not real life. This is a work of fiction, and Ron is ordinary. He's Seamus, Lavander, Wood. I mean, these characters are great, but there is a reason they are in the background. Ron is the star of the background characters.
Wand Maker - Feb 1, 2005 6:01 pm (#1458 of 1957)
haymoni , I don't think that there was any danger in Harry becoming friends with Draco, regardless of Harry meeting Ron. While getting fitted, "He was liking the boy less and less every second".
a bit later...
"and Harry, not sorry for an excuse to stop talking to the boy, hopped down from the footstool."
Harry could see the geniuneness in Ron and his family early on.
Paulus Maximus - Feb 1, 2005 8:22 pm (#1459 of 1957)
And he was reminded of Dudley, too.
Of course, everything he had said about his parents bespoke a "spoiled prince"...
Choices - Feb 2, 2005 9:32 am (#1460 of 1957)
Of course, everything he had said about his parents bespoke a "spoiled prince"... Paulus
Yikes, what if Draco finds out he is a half-blood and is the HBP? We know Narcissa is a pure blood, but we know nothing of Lucius' background.
Ann - Feb 2, 2005 1:15 pm (#1461 of 1957)
Well, Lucius is a DE, and Jo says that means at least half-blood.
Potions Mistress - Feb 2, 2005 4:34 pm (#1462 of 1957)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I might've misread something about DE's "bloodline", but I thought that LV was very akin to Hitler and wanted only "purebloods." ???
Back to Ron: as was stated somewhere here before, when Harry first met Ron, there was no "hero-worship," just genuine friendship. I also think that the fight in GOF strengthened that friendship in the end, because the two are like brothers. I've had some pretty bad fights with some friends, but many times in the end, we forgive each other (half the time we don't even remember what the fight was about), and our friendship is stronger for it.
~pm
Jak Frank - Feb 3, 2005 8:02 pm (#1463 of 1957)
Yeah. I am fairly certain that every DE is a pureblood.
Eponine - Feb 4, 2005 3:56 am (#1464 of 1957)
No, JKR said about DE regarding Snape:
He was a Death Eater, so clearly he is no Muggle born, because Muggle borns are not allowed to be Death Eaters, except in rare circumstances.
From the Edinburgh Book Festival
Joanne R. Reid - Feb 4, 2005 7:34 am (#1465 of 1957)
It's ironic, isn't it?
Hitler was an Austrian with a Jewish grandmother or something. Yet, he demanded Aryan purity of everyone else. Tom Riddle is a Mudblood, yet requires all of his followers to be pure bloods.
Hitler and Voldemort are two examples of extreme self-hatred and loathing. Hitler committed suicide. Evidently, Voldemort can't.
Then, there's our tri-heroes: Ron, the pure-blood; Harry the half-blood; Hermione the Mudblood.
I love the irony.
Thanks,
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 4, 2005 10:42 am (#1466 of 1957)
Actually, Joanne, Tom was a half-blood, but its the same principle
Potions Mistress - Feb 4, 2005 4:06 pm (#1467 of 1957)
Hmmm...maybe that's why I thought that LV only allowed "purebloods" to be DE's--the similar self-hatred envisaged in Hitler. Maybe if Snape turns out to be the HBP, that will answer our question regarding this! ;-)
I can also see Ron being a target of the DE's not only for being Harry's friend, specifically, but for being friends with the "Mudbloods" in general. (That could also apply to the rest of the Weasley family, too.)
~pm
Joanne R. Reid - Feb 5, 2005 10:48 am (#1468 of 1957)
Thanks, Matilda,
You're quite correct. Sometimes my fingers go faster than my brain. Obviously, this was one of those times.
I stand corrected: both Tom Riddle and Harry Potter are half-bloods.
Thanks,
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 5, 2005 2:07 pm (#1469 of 1957)
You are very welcome.
I have a random question. I have been thinking recently about Ron's relationship with Ginny. They are only a year apart, the closest in age than any of the other Weasleys, and they seem to get on fairly well. It seems that Ron doesn't mind Ginny hanging around the trio as much in OOtP as he did in the other books, so just out of curiosity, and the need for this thread to take a happy turn, what do the rest of you think about thier relationship? Do you think they know about each others love interests? I think they do, I mean Ginny is perceptive and I believe she has noticed how Ron feels about Hermione, and, whether or not Ron knows who Ginny likes, I think he wants her to be with Harry.
Now, Ron's relationship with Hermione changes a bit in OoP in the sence that as he is becoming more aware of his feelings for her (and imo, her feelings for him) he seems to be more aware of feelings in general. There is one part, near the end of Oop that makes me think he wants Ginny and Harry to be together. I believe its the part where they are on the train and Ron says "Just choose someone better next time" and casts an odd look towards Harry.
Ok, that was a lot of rambling, basically I am just curious as to what you all think about Ron and Ginny's relationship.
Choices - Feb 5, 2005 5:15 pm (#1470 of 1957)
I think up through book 2, Ron doesn't notice Ginny very much - she's just his little sister. But, after she is almost killed in the Chamber of Secrets by Tom Riddle, I think Ron takes a different attitude towards Ginny. They are both growing up and Ron takes a more protective attitude towards Ginny - I might even say a somewhat "fatherly" concern for who she is dating. Ginny is a smart little witch and she is more aware of what is going on than Ron seems to be. She was the one who comforted Ron after he impulsively asks Fleur to the Yule Ball and then is so embarrassed that he did. I think they are looking out for each other more since book 2. She loves Ron and he loves her, but I do think it is her brother Bill, and always will be Bill, who has a special place in Ginny's heart.
Eponine - Feb 5, 2005 5:28 pm (#1471 of 1957)
I think that when they were growing up, they played together a lot. It seems to me that Bill and Charlie would pair up, Percy seems to be a bit of a loner in the family, and Fred and George are a ready made pair. This leaves Ron and Ginny. There is nothing to substantiate this, it's just my presupposition.
I do think that Ron would occasionally drop her to play with the big boys, but I tend to think that they had and continue to have a close relationship. Once Ron went off to school, the dynamics between them changed quite a bit, and Ginny likely felt quite left out which is why the diary was so dangerous for her.
After the diary/chamber incident, we don't really see much interaction between the two of them until GoF, but they seem to have a comfortable relationship.
As they get older, Ron is more comfortable with having her around him and his friends because she's growing up. He's beginning to accept her as more of a peer than as a little sister.
I think it's sweet that he's protective of her regarding boys, and I do think Ginny knows exactly how Ron feels about Hermione. However, I'm not sure if he knows she knows.
To sum up a rather rambling post, I love the relationship between Ron and Ginny. I think they are close, but we don't always get to see that closeness because Harry is our window, and he's not always looking that way.
pottermom34 - Feb 5, 2005 10:37 pm (#1472 of 1957)
in going with your "pairing up" theme and Percy being a single wasn't Percy also the only one not to play Quidditch. ( correct me if I'm wrong) Charlie and bill played then the twins played then ron & Ginny played. Just an observation.
Marie E. - Feb 6, 2005 2:35 pm (#1473 of 1957)
I believe you are right, pottermom. There isn't any mention of Percy playing Quidditch. How lonely that must feel for him, to be the only one in a family of seven siblings not to play.
Choices - Feb 6, 2005 5:29 pm (#1474 of 1957)
I doubt Percy feels left out. He probably looks down his nose at the others because he finds the thickness of cauldron bottoms to be far more interesting. He's a self important little git!
Eric Bailey - Feb 6, 2005 11:50 pm (#1475 of 1957)
Percy has different interests. Hermione's not obsessed with Quiddich, either, remember. Percy was more concerned with his grades, and getting into leadership positions. Unless you go pro, and make a career out of it, who's going to care about how well you did at quiddich after you've graduated? I can see, for example, Draco having his quiddich seekership at school being the highlight of his life, being one of those guys who doesn't amount to anything once school is done, and he's no longer the Big Man On Campus.
Jak Frank - Feb 8, 2005 4:30 am (#1476 of 1957)
Are you saying that Draco is actually Al Bundy in disguise?
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Feb 8, 2005 11:32 am (#1477 of 1957)
Awsome you guys. I agree with just about everything you all have said regarding Ron and Ginny. I think they are pretty close, and I think they will get closer.
Eric Bailey - Feb 8, 2005 1:51 pm (#1478 of 1957)
Well, I was thinking more in terms of the quarterback in Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion.
You have to keep in mind Draco's purpose in the books, every bully, cliqish snob, and racist you met in school all rolled up into one character. They seem like your nemesis, at first, but after a while you recognize them as the umimportant losers that they are. They HAVE to behave the way they do because they have nothing else going for them.
Where Ron will have his moment of really maturing is when he recognizes what Harry did at the end of OotP, and what Luna did from the moment she met Draco, that Draco is really beneath him. Ron has always felt very insecure comparing himself to Draco, due to the money and, well, mainly the money. Draco's always been able to get to Ron, make him feel inferior. But, Ron really needs to compare their respective accomplishments, what they've each done in their lives. Once he does, he'll recognize Draco for the complete duffer that he is.
I do hope Draco does his usual song and dance about how poor Ron's dad is, so Ron can retort with "At least MY dad doesn't have to be careful not to drop the soap".
TwinklingBlueEyes - Feb 9, 2005 11:08 am (#1479 of 1957)
"At least MY dad doesn't have to be careful not to drop the soap".
The thought of Dememtor guards popped into my mind, and I just lost it! ROFL!!!!!!
Ron would love that mental picture!
hellocello3200 - Feb 28, 2005 4:16 pm (#1480 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron!
Sticky Glue - Feb 28, 2005 4:58 pm (#1481 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron
MickeyCee3948 - Feb 28, 2005 6:24 pm (#1482 of 1957)
Happy Birthday, Ronald.
Mikie
Joanne R. Reid - Mar 1, 2005 11:25 am (#1483 of 1957)
Happy Birthday, Ron! And, many, many more!
Thanks,
Czarina II - Mar 1, 2005 2:17 pm (#1484 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron! Hope you're still alive.
Hollywand - Mar 1, 2005 7:08 pm (#1485 of 1957)
I think it's a hilarious bit of irony on Rowling's part that she would begin March with Ron's birthday and follow up with Mungo Bonham as Wizard of the Month. Poor Ron had a terrible time of it from the healer portraits at St. Mungo's!
Leif Asgeirsson - Mar 6, 2005 6:53 pm (#1486 of 1957)
Is Ron really not too bright, or does he just not care much about grades?
Ladybug220 - Mar 6, 2005 7:07 pm (#1487 of 1957)
I think that Ron is bright but he is the classic example of a person that needs to apply himself to his studies.
Choices - Mar 6, 2005 7:23 pm (#1488 of 1957)
I think it has been pointed out that Ron and Harry make about the same grades. Ron is smart, he is just lazy and likes to let Hermione do the work for him. He doesn't want to apply himself. He needs to develope a better work ethic.
Ydnam96 - Mar 6, 2005 9:37 pm (#1489 of 1957)
I agree. Ron is smart. Look at all his brothers. They are all smart. They have all just chosen to use their brians in different ways. I would venture to say that Ron is going to be slightly more apt to pay attention and do well in school this coming two years if he plans on being an Auror and given the situation with the Order and all that. He will want to prove himself, remember he wants to be head boy and all that.
wwtMask - Mar 7, 2005 7:40 am (#1490 of 1957)
Ron thinks he'll never be able to match up to his brothers or that, even if he does, it won't be special because two of his brothers have already achieve the pinnacle of academia for a student at Hogwarts. His only motivation, then, is to maintain decent grades. Other than that, Ron has to be interested in specific subject matter before he applies himself more.
TomProffitt - Mar 7, 2005 9:08 am (#1491 of 1957)
We don't really know how smart Ron is. We just know he doesn't like to do homework.
I was considered to be pretty smart and I didn't like homework any better than, Ron. I didn't put any more effort into it than him, either. I bet I drove my teachers nuts.
I think Ron is smarter than Harry, but there really isn't anyway to know. I doubt Jo's going to show us their report cards. Of course OWLs are due. I imagine that will tell us something.
Detail Seeker - Mar 7, 2005 1:23 pm (#1492 of 1957)
There have to be some reasons, why ron was made prefect, not Seamus or Dean. It cannot just have been the fact, that Ron was partaking in all the adventures with Harry and Hermione.If he was a bad student, he would not have been chosen. What we have heard about his grades was, that he passed all his end-of-year- exams, as did Harry. So I do think, he is quite par with Harry. It is just in the movies, that he is portrayed as a bit simple.
GryffEndora - Mar 7, 2005 1:31 pm (#1493 of 1957)
I agree, one thing I have been meaning to go back and check out was how Ron does in Potions compared to Harry. I can clearly remember Neville often having bad potions but I can't quite recall how Ron did. I do remember though that he out scored Harry on the 1st Potions essay of OWL year, (Pathetic over Dreadful).
S.E. Jones - Mar 7, 2005 9:09 pm (#1494 of 1957)
I think you mean Poor, not Pathetic.
Also, you do have to have something in the way of smarts to be witty, which I think Ron is.
Ponine - Mar 8, 2005 5:52 pm (#1495 of 1957)
I think that Harry and Ron both are like most teenage boys in this aspect - they don't really care too much about classwork and grades, because there are so many other interesting and important issues at hand. Plus, of course, if Ron really made an effort and did all his stuff on time and properly, Hermione would not have to help them correct and read over their papers, and I for one thinks Ron really kind of likes Hermione's attention.
GryffEndora - Mar 9, 2005 11:02 am (#1496 of 1957)
S.E. Jones, Thanks! I had to chuckle that while trying to talk up Ron's academiic skills I actually made him sound worse. I would definately take Poor over Pathetic any day.
Ydnam96 - Mar 11, 2005 9:04 pm (#1497 of 1957)
Isn't there a point after Ron gets his Prefect Badge where Harry argues with himself about Ron's qualifications vs. his own? I think in those moments we hear Harry say that Ron is really on par with Harry himself in everything but quittich really. (as far as grades and spells and all that)
S.E. Jones - Mar 11, 2005 9:21 pm (#1498 of 1957)
I think I found the passage:
I'm better at Quidditch, said the voice. But I'm not better at anything else.
That was definitely true, Harry thought; he was no better than Ron in lessons.
(OotP, pg166, US)
wwtMask - Mar 14, 2005 7:16 am (#1499 of 1957)
He forgot to mention DADA. I think it's fair to say that Harry is the best in his year (and all the other years, for that matter) at DADA.
Phoenix song - Mar 14, 2005 7:44 am (#1500 of 1957)
I don't think that Harry ever realized that he had beaten Hermione grade-wise in DADA until she had pointed it out to him later on in OotP. He believed that he and Ron were neck-and-neck with their grades, and they well might have been since they copied off one another so frequently. **wink, wink**
Practically speaking, Harry is of course better than any other student at fighting the Dark Arts. I think that he tends to mentally discount that judging by the way that he responded when Hermione and Ron tried to talk him into teaching them DADA. Remember all of his "That was just luck" and "I had help with that" statements?
I think in his mental comparison with Ron, Harry would not have considered himself to be better than Ron even in DADA. So this particular comparison point probably never enters his consciousness except during times that he feels that he is being "suffocated" with protection and isolation and wants to remind those around him how often he has faced danger in the past.
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Melly - Apr 3, 2005 10:02 pm (#1501 of 1957)
I have a question for everyone and am curious to find out everyone's thoughts on this. Do you think Ron will be affected very much by the brain attack? Madam Pomfrey was able to fix him up pretty good but apparently said that 'thoughts could leave deeper scarring than almost anything else'. What do you think Ron's side affects (if any) will be?
MickeyCee3948 - Apr 3, 2005 10:47 pm (#1502 of 1957)
Errol Sneideldekker, it has been discussed at some length several hundred posts ago you might want to do a search to check out the discussions. I believe that we all decided we did not have enough information to make a definitive decision.
Mikie
Julia. - Apr 6, 2005 5:55 am (#1503 of 1957)
Image hosted by Photobucket.comIf you'll all check the rumors section on JKR's site, you will find that Ron is not Dumbledore. Just thought I'd point that out and reiterate one of my favorite sayings.
That's all well and good, but at the end of the day Ron is Ron, Lupin is Lupin, and Dumbledore is the Giant Squid.
Potions Mistress - Apr 6, 2005 4:04 pm (#1504 of 1957)
Julia, hear, hear! LOL!
~pm
Ydnam96 - May 14, 2005 10:04 pm (#1505 of 1957)
So Ron...
Any thoughts on where Ron is as far as a character? I'm thinking about character development here...
I think he is in an interesting place. He has the potential now to become a very much more strong character- finally finding something he's good at with Quittich and being prefect and all. He also has the potential of falling to the wayside, depending on the way JK goes with the story.
If Harry becomes more of a "loner" in this book (HBP) and leaves Hermione and Ron behind so to say, Ron could be in trouble as a character. He could loose his momentum. Not that I think that Harry is what keeps him going as a person, but being near and central to Harry keeps him relevant as a character.
This leads me to the conclusion that if Harry distances himself from Ron and Hermione and Ron looses momentum as a character it could leave him open and vulnerable (character wise) to an attack and possible death.
It would bring Harry back to a central focus for sure to loose another person...
Not that I want Ron to go, I LOVE Ron. I think he is important but I do think there is a strong possibility that JK has set him up for a fall from "grace" so to speak.
any thoughts?
haymoni- May 15, 2005 7:51 am (#1506 of 1957)
I think Ron already "fell" in GOF.
I think he'll be used to keep Harry grounded. When he sees Harry getting too moody or too thoughtful, he'll try to distract him.
Or he'll continue to have the emotional range of a teaspoon and be oblivious to everything.
Ydnam96 - May 15, 2005 9:05 am (#1507 of 1957)
Oh, I wouldn't say that he is emotionally stunted. Especially for a teenaged boy. It is rather obvious throughout book five that Ron has a lot of emotions...he just doesn't know how to interpret them. Which is quite right for a boy his age.
I do think Ron was pushed a bit to the wayside in this OotP...but I think that was because it started to focus more on the larger group, the group including Neville, Ginny, and Luna...but I wouldn't say that Ron "fell" but it could be a sign of his decline in the coming books. Which makes me sad...I really like Ron. He is a good balance for Harry. And well, I just like him in general. I identify with him...in his bumbelings and his raw emotions.
frogface - May 16, 2005 12:44 am (#1508 of 1957)
I think Ron will remain important. The fact that he is good at chess is illustrated to us a number of times in the first book suggests to me that stratgedy will come into play concerning Ron later in the book, as he has already shown a high level of skill at it. As for his emotions, well he is such a brilliant character. You're right Ydnam96 that his disability to interpret his own emotions is very accurate. I see him reflected in myself and many of my friends who are also teenage boys. He may have been pushed to the sidelines a bit recently, but I hope he isn't pushed furthur in that direction.
Joanne R. Reid - May 16, 2005 6:08 am (#1509 of 1957)
Hi,
I think of Ron as the brother Harry never had. In a similar fashion, the Weasley's are Harry's family, and Molly is his foster mother.
Harry's knowledge of the WW comes from Ron. We could spend hours discussing the many times Ron has explained the ins and outs of the WW to Harry and to Hermione. Ron is also the trio's entre into the MoM, through Arthur, and to the rare and exotic realms, through Bill and Charlie.
Ron is also the trio's expert on chess and Quidditch. He's a strategist who can think long-term, even though he, like most teenage boys, doesn't always do so. He is the critical stabilizing influence in Harry's life, and is his best and closest friend. He is to Harry as Sirius was to James.
I can never see Harry and Ron splitting like they did in GoF. Ron will never let his envy and jealousy interfere with his love for Harry. Harry will continue to confide even his darkest thoughts with Ron. They are brothers, friends and boon companions who will share their entire lives together ... however long that may be.
I just can't bear the thought of Harry, Ron or Hermione being killed. I know full well they are characters in a novel. They are ink blots on a page. They are dark smudges on cellulose. Yet, I can not reduce them to non-existence in my imagination. They are real, and I can wish them no harm.
Thanks,
S.E. Jones - May 16, 2005 12:20 pm (#1510 of 1957)
--He is to Harry as Sirius was to James.-- Joanne R. Reid
I'd say that he's more "to Harry as James was to Sirius". I know people often compare Harry and James, but I think a comparison of Ron and James would be more accurate. As you said so succinctly, Ron is a stabilizing force in Harry's life. He's the one with the family through whom Harry can learn about family dynamic and familial love. Similarly, Sirius, who also grew up with people who didn't really seem to want him, was welcomed into James's family.
Hm, I realize now that I seem to be ranting incoherently. Sorry about that....
Choices - May 16, 2005 4:42 pm (#1511 of 1957)
S.E. Jones - That is exactly what I thought - Ron to Harry is more like James to Sirius than the other way. You said it just dandy, so I'll just say I agree. :-)
Ydnam96 - May 16, 2005 7:46 pm (#1512 of 1957)
SE Jones, that is a great analysis. You put into words what I was trying to get out in thoughts. I've always felt the way people have categorized Ron/Harry and Sirius/James was a little off. Your explination makes perfect sense! It should be Ron is to Harry what James was to Siruis.
Like Choices, I agree! Well said.
Joanne R. Reid - May 17, 2005 5:51 am (#1513 of 1957)
Hi,
Perhaps my analogy should have been cited more as an equation. James and Sirius were as brothers. Harry and Ron are also as brothers. so, I might rewrite their relationships as follows:
Harry=Ron::James=Sirius
Thanks,
Ydnam96 - May 17, 2005 7:14 am (#1514 of 1957)
Joanne, that was my understanding of what you were getting at. I just chose to put it into a word analogy instead of mathmatical.
Joanne R. Reid - May 18, 2005 7:37 am (#1515 of 1957)
Hi,
Thanks, Ydnam (love your pseudonym, by the way), it's just that I felt a tiny bit of clarification was needed. By using the equation, I could express that the relationship between Ron and Harry was equal in both directions, as was that between Sirius and James. I didn't want to leave the impression that Harry was more important simply because I used his name first.
Again, thank you for your reply. Your analogy was excellent and most apropos.
Thanks,
Ydnam96 - May 19, 2005 6:42 am (#1516 of 1957)
Thanks Joanne, although it isn't that clever, just my name backwards Although you would be surprised how long it takes most people to figure it out. I always smile when they have.
On topic. I do think that Ron is just as important to the story as Harry and that across the board they are quite similar in talents and abilities...or at least realized abilities. Although Harry is starting to find things that are a result of the Dark Lord attack. But Ron is a trouper and he will be able to handle it all. (of course I am biased. I like Ron better)
Liz Mann - May 30, 2005 2:24 pm (#1517 of 1957)
One thing that annoys me about the films is that Ron is represented as being a bit wimpy and takes a definate back-seat to Harry talent wise, courage wise and intelligence wise. Which is wrong because Ron in the books may be a little bit slow in the uptake sometimes but only when he's got his mind on something else, and he is just as brave as Harry (except when it comes to spiders) and he is definately not wimpy. I love Ron for his sarcasm and the fact that he is clever and witty (some of the comments he makes could only come from a person who is witty).
As far as importance to the plot goes I don't think Ron is as important as Harry, but he is certainly as important as Hermione. Ron and Hermione are on equal footing in that respect.
I do think that Ron and Hermione (particuarly Ron) are going to be very important to keeping Harry on track and sane from now on.
Choices - May 30, 2005 4:55 pm (#1518 of 1957)
Liz - "....and he is just as brave as Harry (except when it comes to spiders)"
Ron has his spiders and Harry has his dementors - I think they are pretty equal in bravery. Everyone is afraid of something.
Ydnam96 - May 30, 2005 8:43 pm (#1519 of 1957)
True true. Everyone has their Boggart. If you think about it, being the most afraid of spiders it pretty good. It means that he is not necessarily afraid of some of the things he may have to face in the rest of the series, or at least not as afraid. And we know he has conqured his fear of spiders at least to a point to being able to function, ie the situation with Aragog.
Regan of Gong - May 30, 2005 10:23 pm (#1520 of 1957)
Well, with the Dementors, Harry is only scared of fear itself, which is more of a "rational" fear, and probably more sensible than Ron's. Maybe it could be called a weakness, as the Dementors make Harry relive the worst moments of his life, which is what makes him scared of them, right? Or am I raving?
Liz Mann - May 31, 2005 2:48 am (#1521 of 1957)
Edited May 31, 2005 3:49 am
J.K. has said that Harry's problem with the Dementors is not weakness. It's just that he's had more problems than most people and so they affect him the most because they have more to feed on.
The difference between Ron's fear of spiders and Harry's fear of Dementors is that Ron's is an actual phobia. Phobias are very different from any other fear and is completely irrational. They are also often caused by childhood experiences, as we know Ron's fear is. He can't help his fear so it's not a weakness of any kind any more than Harry being affected so much by the Dementors. People who are usually very strong and rational and brave can still have a phobia because it has absolutely nothing to do with personality.
Jennifer Anderson - May 31, 2005 6:57 pm (#1522 of 1957)
Yeah, and think I Ron handles his phobia pretty well as far as having a phobia goes. And I know people that completely loose their heads and scream at sight of a spider, one of them one time actually jumped out of a moving car to avoid a spider and tore their pants [no, I'm not kidding]. And you notice Ron tries to hide it, So that start.
Eponine - Jun 1, 2005 6:43 am (#1523 of 1957)
I'm currently re-reading GoF, and I've noticed a couple more comments from Ron that end up coming true.
One is after Hagrid has had his interview with Rita Skeeter, and he's telling the trio how she was asking him questions about Harry. Ron says she just wants to write about him being a 'mad delinquent.' This is before she's written anything negative about Harry or him having his dreams.
The second one is when the trio has gone to visit Sirius in his cave, and they're discussing Snape, Crouch, and the tournament. Ron says, 'I know Dumbledore's brilliant and everything, but that doesn't mean a really clever Dark wizard couldn't fool him-'
I'm planning on paying a bit more attention to things that Ron says in HBP.
frogface - Jun 1, 2005 6:45 am (#1524 of 1957)
Yes a few people have noticed that about Ron. Some have even suggested he may be a seer. I don't think he is though, I think it is just JKR having a few private jokes. Still we should listen closely to some of Ron's off hand comments.
applepie - Jun 1, 2005 6:59 am (#1525 of 1957)
I agree with both of you. I will pay a bit more attention to things Ron says as well. I do think I tend to dismiss some of the things he says because he is a bit more of a follower, and so passive and non-chalant with is studies...but maybe that's her angle on him. Give them clues through the one that they least expect it from. I mean..in reality, Ron is the only one of the trio that has lived in the magical world his entire life. We should take his advice with a little more credibility.
Eponine - Jun 1, 2005 7:12 am (#1526 of 1957)
He makes a lot of a comments that end up being true or coming into play later in the story.
I don't know if I think he's a seer or if he's just a tool JKR uses to foreshadow certain things. Prior to OotP, I wasn't in the online fandom at all, and I had never noticed that aspect of Ron's character. Once I got online and started reading, I realized how much she used him in that way. So whenever I read HBP, I'm going to paying much closer attention to Ron's statements.
Choices - Jun 1, 2005 8:59 am (#1527 of 1957)
I have heard it said that when Ron says something jokingly, you can believe him, but if he says it seriously, he's probably wrong.
applepie - Jun 1, 2005 9:02 am (#1528 of 1957)
A little reverse psychology, if you will.
Liz Mann - Jun 1, 2005 9:08 am (#1529 of 1957)
I think the original expression was: Hermione is always right except when she gets emotional and Ron is always wrong except when he makes a joke about it.
Choices - Jun 1, 2005 5:27 pm (#1530 of 1957)
Yes, that's it - Thanks for the full quote Liz.
Snuffles - Jun 2, 2005 2:17 am (#1531 of 1957)
I agree about Ron. Another thing I noticed while re reading GOF is when Ron and Harry are making up predictions for Trelawny, Ron suggests one for Harry, and it is that he will be stabbed in the back by someone he thought was a friend. Later on Harry's name comes out of the goblet and Ron doesn't believe Harry didn't put it in!
S.E. Jones - Jun 3, 2005 12:23 am (#1532 of 1957)
--Another thing I noticed while re reading GOF is when Ron and Harry are making up predictions for Trelawny, Ron suggests one for Harry, and it is that he will be stabbed in the back by someone he thought was a friend.-- Snuffles
You could also look at it from the point of view of Moody (aka Barty Crouch, Jr) stabbing Harry in the back as he thought Moody was a friend.
Snuffles - Jun 6, 2005 11:22 am (#1533 of 1957)
That's true S.E.Jones I had forgotten that!
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jun 8, 2005 9:53 am (#1534 of 1957)
I just have to add that from what I have learned in psychology, phobias can be quite rational. If you have a phobia of something that can actually cause you harm then its rational. Spiders (my biggest phobia) can bite, and the poisonous one's can kill, so its perfectly natural to be afraid of something that might kill you. Same goes for the fear of heights. You could fall from a high place and get hurt. There are some phobias however that are irrational, such as claurophobia, or fear of clowns (also one of mine) which I have learned is quite a popular one. Clowns don't usually hurt people, unless a murderer dresses up as one, or if you're watching the movie "It". Thats all I have to say.
applepie - Jun 8, 2005 10:48 am (#1535 of 1957)
Matilda, precisely why my husband hates clowns. I, however, have no problem with them. But, I have not seen the movie. I'm not much for thrillers.
Ron has proven to be very brave in the face of his phobia. I cannot imagine going into a forest full of overgrown roaches. I would simply die.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jun 8, 2005 10:52 am (#1536 of 1957)
Edited Jun 8, 2005 11:53 am
I haven't seen the movie either actually. My fear is applied more to dolls or porcelin figures of clowns, like the ones all over my grandmothers house. I cannot stand ventriliquist dummy's either. I just have this thing, stemming from childhood about dolls coming to life and killing people, like Chucky.
I am very proud of Ron for standing up to his phobia like that. I hyperventelate(sp?) and tear up from the sight of a tiny spider 5ft away.
applepie - Jun 8, 2005 10:58 am (#1537 of 1957)
"My fear is applied more to dolls or porcelin figures of clowns, like the ones all over my grandmothers house. I cannot stand ventriliquist dummy's either." - Matilda
I very much agree with this. Birthday parties with clowns do not bother me, but I see your point with the porcelin ones. I feel kind "spooked" by them too........ Sometimes certain baby dolls whose eyes open and close do the same to me.
GryffEndora - Jun 8, 2005 10:58 am (#1538 of 1957)
Matilda Jones - One of my many mottos is "Clowns are Evil!" The number of times a kids show has had a scary clown/doll or Dummy would lead me to agree with your assessment of clowns and dummy's being scary. I'm with you!
I completely agree that Ron is incredibly brave to face the acromantulas. I couldn't handle giant spiders, roaches, tics or probably any giant bug. I would have peed my pants and ran for my life. I think Ron is a hero for getting through the whole thing safe and dry.
Liz Mann - Jun 8, 2005 4:28 pm (#1539 of 1957)
Edited Jun 8, 2005 5:31 pm
I just have to add that from what I have learned in psychology, phobias can be quite rational.
Actually I think the definition of 'phobia' is "A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous." (Dictionary.com) I did psychology too, by the way. Yes, spiders can be dangerous because they can bite, and heights can be dangerous because you could fall, but there is a difference between a justified fear of a thing and a phobia. A person with a fear of heights (like myself) won't, say, go on a ferris wheel. A person with an actual phobia won't step on the bottom rung of a ladder (rational thing to be scared of, but the fear is on an irrational level). A person with a fear of spiders wouldn't want to touch one or risk having one on them (I don't like knowing one's in my room in case it comes down onto my bed). A person with an actual phobia, like Ron, wouldn't even be in the same room as even a tiny one (like in CoS when they found the spiders in the corridor where Mrs Norris was attacked, he was keeping as far back as the corridor would allow and seemed to be fighting the impulse to run, even though the spiders were no where near him, nor were they poisonous, nor were they paying any attention to him).
applepie - Jun 8, 2005 7:01 pm (#1540 of 1957)
But, you have to give it to Ron. He did hang in there in the Forbidden Forest pretty well, didn't he?
The One - Jun 9, 2005 12:10 pm (#1541 of 1957)
Yes, but he did not do anything usefull. His only action when "under fire" was to save the dog, and that was on Harry's orders.
Liz Mann - Jun 9, 2005 3:16 pm (#1542 of 1957)
He was sitting paralysed with fear the whole time.
Czarina II - Jun 10, 2005 5:44 pm (#1543 of 1957)
Edited by Jun 10, 2005 6:44 pm
Well, the poor lad was in a state of complete terror and panic! Understandably, he was not very useful. He went along because Harry convinced him, and he wanted to help Hagrid and Hermione. The latter reason is likely the only reason he didn't turn tail and run for his life the second he saw the river of spiders heading into the forest. He could have easily let Harry go by himself, but he didn't. In fact, were I in his place, I would have done just that. "Let's go back to bed, Harry, and in the morning we'll get McGonagall to have a search party come with us..." -- something along those lines. If someone I cared deeply about convinced me to travel to Australia (where I refuse to go because they have giant spiders) and then proceeded to get kidnapped in the Outback, I would be hardpressed to go searching for them.
Ron really DID prove to be useful considering the circumstances. Phobias may be psychological, but they are a lot like disabilities. Sufferers go from not wanting to do something to not being able to do something. (I am not able to take a shower in the presence of a spider, for instance, no matter how dirty I am. If a spider appears while I am showering, I am out of there, shampoo and all.) It takes a lot of concentration on the part of phobia sufferers to remain rational when their phobia takes over, so it's no wonder Ron wasn't much of a help visiting Aragog -- especially since Aragog was as big as an elephant and was actually planning to feed him to his children! No well-meaning little Charlotte dropping in. Quite a rational fear, actually. It was Harry who was really being irrational in that particular circumstance.
Liz Mann - Jun 13, 2005 10:14 am (#1544 of 1957)
A person with a phobia can act very irrationally. I saw a video in psychology class where a woman was having therapy to overcome a phobia. She had a fear of birds and feathers. The psychologist brought out a feather (it was nowhere near her) and she started crying and trembling and panicing. Ron did pretty well considering.
applepie - Jun 13, 2005 11:36 am (#1545 of 1957)
I agree. He was much braver than I.
Madame Pomfrey - Jun 13, 2005 5:32 pm (#1546 of 1957)
Edited Jun 13, 2005 6:33 pm
Ron did do well with his fear of spiders. I dont think alot of people who have such fears would have been coaxed into the dark forrest to begin with.I think he was a real trooper. Lol about the roaches Applepie,I have the same fear and will scream the house down if I see one.
Ydnam96 - Jun 13, 2005 8:45 pm (#1547 of 1957)
(me too, I hate hate hate spiders. I live alone though...so I have had to learn to deal with them. I spray them with whatever aresol can is nearest then get a large handful of papertowels and squish with my head turned. The aresol is to stun them. I've found that hair spray works well, since it's goopy. The other day all I had within reach was lysol and that seemed to slow it down a bit. I do however have a great paranoia of ticks. They scare me and gross me out more than spiders)
But back to topic.
I think Ron is rather brave. He survived in the house with the twins all those years and he has not been afraid to do whatever has been necessary to help Harry. I'm thinking specifically of the chess game where he sacrificed himself, full well knowing he could have been killed. Now that's bravery.
Liz Mann - Jun 14, 2005 1:15 pm (#1548 of 1957)
And he didn't even hesitate in that game. As soon as he realised it was necessary he was willing to do it. And he was only eleven. And he followed Harry into the Chamber of Secrets without even a shred of doubt (although admittedly his sister was concerned there).
Jennifer Anderson - Jun 14, 2005 1:59 pm (#1549 of 1957)
Edited Jun 14, 2005 3:00 pm
And when he "followed" Harry into the Chamber of Secrets he was the one who said lets go.
Liz Mann - Jun 14, 2005 2:08 pm (#1550 of 1957)
That's true. Nobody followed anybody, they both just went.
I have a question for everyone and am curious to find out everyone's thoughts on this. Do you think Ron will be affected very much by the brain attack? Madam Pomfrey was able to fix him up pretty good but apparently said that 'thoughts could leave deeper scarring than almost anything else'. What do you think Ron's side affects (if any) will be?
MickeyCee3948 - Apr 3, 2005 10:47 pm (#1502 of 1957)
Errol Sneideldekker, it has been discussed at some length several hundred posts ago you might want to do a search to check out the discussions. I believe that we all decided we did not have enough information to make a definitive decision.
Mikie
Julia. - Apr 6, 2005 5:55 am (#1503 of 1957)
Image hosted by Photobucket.comIf you'll all check the rumors section on JKR's site, you will find that Ron is not Dumbledore. Just thought I'd point that out and reiterate one of my favorite sayings.
That's all well and good, but at the end of the day Ron is Ron, Lupin is Lupin, and Dumbledore is the Giant Squid.
Potions Mistress - Apr 6, 2005 4:04 pm (#1504 of 1957)
Julia, hear, hear! LOL!
~pm
Ydnam96 - May 14, 2005 10:04 pm (#1505 of 1957)
So Ron...
Any thoughts on where Ron is as far as a character? I'm thinking about character development here...
I think he is in an interesting place. He has the potential now to become a very much more strong character- finally finding something he's good at with Quittich and being prefect and all. He also has the potential of falling to the wayside, depending on the way JK goes with the story.
If Harry becomes more of a "loner" in this book (HBP) and leaves Hermione and Ron behind so to say, Ron could be in trouble as a character. He could loose his momentum. Not that I think that Harry is what keeps him going as a person, but being near and central to Harry keeps him relevant as a character.
This leads me to the conclusion that if Harry distances himself from Ron and Hermione and Ron looses momentum as a character it could leave him open and vulnerable (character wise) to an attack and possible death.
It would bring Harry back to a central focus for sure to loose another person...
Not that I want Ron to go, I LOVE Ron. I think he is important but I do think there is a strong possibility that JK has set him up for a fall from "grace" so to speak.
any thoughts?
haymoni- May 15, 2005 7:51 am (#1506 of 1957)
I think Ron already "fell" in GOF.
I think he'll be used to keep Harry grounded. When he sees Harry getting too moody or too thoughtful, he'll try to distract him.
Or he'll continue to have the emotional range of a teaspoon and be oblivious to everything.
Ydnam96 - May 15, 2005 9:05 am (#1507 of 1957)
Oh, I wouldn't say that he is emotionally stunted. Especially for a teenaged boy. It is rather obvious throughout book five that Ron has a lot of emotions...he just doesn't know how to interpret them. Which is quite right for a boy his age.
I do think Ron was pushed a bit to the wayside in this OotP...but I think that was because it started to focus more on the larger group, the group including Neville, Ginny, and Luna...but I wouldn't say that Ron "fell" but it could be a sign of his decline in the coming books. Which makes me sad...I really like Ron. He is a good balance for Harry. And well, I just like him in general. I identify with him...in his bumbelings and his raw emotions.
frogface - May 16, 2005 12:44 am (#1508 of 1957)
I think Ron will remain important. The fact that he is good at chess is illustrated to us a number of times in the first book suggests to me that stratgedy will come into play concerning Ron later in the book, as he has already shown a high level of skill at it. As for his emotions, well he is such a brilliant character. You're right Ydnam96 that his disability to interpret his own emotions is very accurate. I see him reflected in myself and many of my friends who are also teenage boys. He may have been pushed to the sidelines a bit recently, but I hope he isn't pushed furthur in that direction.
Joanne R. Reid - May 16, 2005 6:08 am (#1509 of 1957)
Hi,
I think of Ron as the brother Harry never had. In a similar fashion, the Weasley's are Harry's family, and Molly is his foster mother.
Harry's knowledge of the WW comes from Ron. We could spend hours discussing the many times Ron has explained the ins and outs of the WW to Harry and to Hermione. Ron is also the trio's entre into the MoM, through Arthur, and to the rare and exotic realms, through Bill and Charlie.
Ron is also the trio's expert on chess and Quidditch. He's a strategist who can think long-term, even though he, like most teenage boys, doesn't always do so. He is the critical stabilizing influence in Harry's life, and is his best and closest friend. He is to Harry as Sirius was to James.
I can never see Harry and Ron splitting like they did in GoF. Ron will never let his envy and jealousy interfere with his love for Harry. Harry will continue to confide even his darkest thoughts with Ron. They are brothers, friends and boon companions who will share their entire lives together ... however long that may be.
I just can't bear the thought of Harry, Ron or Hermione being killed. I know full well they are characters in a novel. They are ink blots on a page. They are dark smudges on cellulose. Yet, I can not reduce them to non-existence in my imagination. They are real, and I can wish them no harm.
Thanks,
S.E. Jones - May 16, 2005 12:20 pm (#1510 of 1957)
--He is to Harry as Sirius was to James.-- Joanne R. Reid
I'd say that he's more "to Harry as James was to Sirius". I know people often compare Harry and James, but I think a comparison of Ron and James would be more accurate. As you said so succinctly, Ron is a stabilizing force in Harry's life. He's the one with the family through whom Harry can learn about family dynamic and familial love. Similarly, Sirius, who also grew up with people who didn't really seem to want him, was welcomed into James's family.
Hm, I realize now that I seem to be ranting incoherently. Sorry about that....
Choices - May 16, 2005 4:42 pm (#1511 of 1957)
S.E. Jones - That is exactly what I thought - Ron to Harry is more like James to Sirius than the other way. You said it just dandy, so I'll just say I agree. :-)
Ydnam96 - May 16, 2005 7:46 pm (#1512 of 1957)
SE Jones, that is a great analysis. You put into words what I was trying to get out in thoughts. I've always felt the way people have categorized Ron/Harry and Sirius/James was a little off. Your explination makes perfect sense! It should be Ron is to Harry what James was to Siruis.
Like Choices, I agree! Well said.
Joanne R. Reid - May 17, 2005 5:51 am (#1513 of 1957)
Hi,
Perhaps my analogy should have been cited more as an equation. James and Sirius were as brothers. Harry and Ron are also as brothers. so, I might rewrite their relationships as follows:
Harry=Ron::James=Sirius
Thanks,
Ydnam96 - May 17, 2005 7:14 am (#1514 of 1957)
Joanne, that was my understanding of what you were getting at. I just chose to put it into a word analogy instead of mathmatical.
Joanne R. Reid - May 18, 2005 7:37 am (#1515 of 1957)
Hi,
Thanks, Ydnam (love your pseudonym, by the way), it's just that I felt a tiny bit of clarification was needed. By using the equation, I could express that the relationship between Ron and Harry was equal in both directions, as was that between Sirius and James. I didn't want to leave the impression that Harry was more important simply because I used his name first.
Again, thank you for your reply. Your analogy was excellent and most apropos.
Thanks,
Ydnam96 - May 19, 2005 6:42 am (#1516 of 1957)
Thanks Joanne, although it isn't that clever, just my name backwards
Although you would be surprised how long it takes most people to figure it out. I always smile when they have. On topic. I do think that Ron is just as important to the story as Harry and that across the board they are quite similar in talents and abilities...or at least realized abilities. Although Harry is starting to find things that are a result of the Dark Lord attack. But Ron is a trouper and he will be able to handle it all. (of course I am biased. I like Ron better)
Liz Mann - May 30, 2005 2:24 pm (#1517 of 1957)
One thing that annoys me about the films is that Ron is represented as being a bit wimpy and takes a definate back-seat to Harry talent wise, courage wise and intelligence wise. Which is wrong because Ron in the books may be a little bit slow in the uptake sometimes but only when he's got his mind on something else, and he is just as brave as Harry (except when it comes to spiders) and he is definately not wimpy. I love Ron for his sarcasm and the fact that he is clever and witty (some of the comments he makes could only come from a person who is witty).
As far as importance to the plot goes I don't think Ron is as important as Harry, but he is certainly as important as Hermione. Ron and Hermione are on equal footing in that respect.
I do think that Ron and Hermione (particuarly Ron) are going to be very important to keeping Harry on track and sane from now on.
Choices - May 30, 2005 4:55 pm (#1518 of 1957)
Liz - "....and he is just as brave as Harry (except when it comes to spiders)"
Ron has his spiders and Harry has his dementors - I think they are pretty equal in bravery. Everyone is afraid of something.
Ydnam96 - May 30, 2005 8:43 pm (#1519 of 1957)
True true. Everyone has their Boggart. If you think about it, being the most afraid of spiders it pretty good. It means that he is not necessarily afraid of some of the things he may have to face in the rest of the series, or at least not as afraid. And we know he has conqured his fear of spiders at least to a point to being able to function, ie the situation with Aragog.
Regan of Gong - May 30, 2005 10:23 pm (#1520 of 1957)
Well, with the Dementors, Harry is only scared of fear itself, which is more of a "rational" fear, and probably more sensible than Ron's. Maybe it could be called a weakness, as the Dementors make Harry relive the worst moments of his life, which is what makes him scared of them, right? Or am I raving?
Liz Mann - May 31, 2005 2:48 am (#1521 of 1957)
Edited May 31, 2005 3:49 am
J.K. has said that Harry's problem with the Dementors is not weakness. It's just that he's had more problems than most people and so they affect him the most because they have more to feed on.
The difference between Ron's fear of spiders and Harry's fear of Dementors is that Ron's is an actual phobia. Phobias are very different from any other fear and is completely irrational. They are also often caused by childhood experiences, as we know Ron's fear is. He can't help his fear so it's not a weakness of any kind any more than Harry being affected so much by the Dementors. People who are usually very strong and rational and brave can still have a phobia because it has absolutely nothing to do with personality.
Jennifer Anderson - May 31, 2005 6:57 pm (#1522 of 1957)
Yeah, and think I Ron handles his phobia pretty well as far as having a phobia goes. And I know people that completely loose their heads and scream at sight of a spider, one of them one time actually jumped out of a moving car to avoid a spider and tore their pants [no, I'm not kidding]. And you notice Ron tries to hide it, So that start.
Eponine - Jun 1, 2005 6:43 am (#1523 of 1957)
I'm currently re-reading GoF, and I've noticed a couple more comments from Ron that end up coming true.
One is after Hagrid has had his interview with Rita Skeeter, and he's telling the trio how she was asking him questions about Harry. Ron says she just wants to write about him being a 'mad delinquent.' This is before she's written anything negative about Harry or him having his dreams.
The second one is when the trio has gone to visit Sirius in his cave, and they're discussing Snape, Crouch, and the tournament. Ron says, 'I know Dumbledore's brilliant and everything, but that doesn't mean a really clever Dark wizard couldn't fool him-'
I'm planning on paying a bit more attention to things that Ron says in HBP.
frogface - Jun 1, 2005 6:45 am (#1524 of 1957)
Yes a few people have noticed that about Ron. Some have even suggested he may be a seer. I don't think he is though, I think it is just JKR having a few private jokes. Still we should listen closely to some of Ron's off hand comments.
applepie - Jun 1, 2005 6:59 am (#1525 of 1957)
I agree with both of you. I will pay a bit more attention to things Ron says as well. I do think I tend to dismiss some of the things he says because he is a bit more of a follower, and so passive and non-chalant with is studies...but maybe that's her angle on him. Give them clues through the one that they least expect it from. I mean..in reality, Ron is the only one of the trio that has lived in the magical world his entire life. We should take his advice with a little more credibility.
Eponine - Jun 1, 2005 7:12 am (#1526 of 1957)
He makes a lot of a comments that end up being true or coming into play later in the story.
I don't know if I think he's a seer or if he's just a tool JKR uses to foreshadow certain things. Prior to OotP, I wasn't in the online fandom at all, and I had never noticed that aspect of Ron's character. Once I got online and started reading, I realized how much she used him in that way. So whenever I read HBP, I'm going to paying much closer attention to Ron's statements.
Choices - Jun 1, 2005 8:59 am (#1527 of 1957)
I have heard it said that when Ron says something jokingly, you can believe him, but if he says it seriously, he's probably wrong.
applepie - Jun 1, 2005 9:02 am (#1528 of 1957)
A little reverse psychology, if you will.
Liz Mann - Jun 1, 2005 9:08 am (#1529 of 1957)
I think the original expression was: Hermione is always right except when she gets emotional and Ron is always wrong except when he makes a joke about it.
Choices - Jun 1, 2005 5:27 pm (#1530 of 1957)
Yes, that's it - Thanks for the full quote Liz.
Snuffles - Jun 2, 2005 2:17 am (#1531 of 1957)
I agree about Ron. Another thing I noticed while re reading GOF is when Ron and Harry are making up predictions for Trelawny, Ron suggests one for Harry, and it is that he will be stabbed in the back by someone he thought was a friend. Later on Harry's name comes out of the goblet and Ron doesn't believe Harry didn't put it in!
S.E. Jones - Jun 3, 2005 12:23 am (#1532 of 1957)
--Another thing I noticed while re reading GOF is when Ron and Harry are making up predictions for Trelawny, Ron suggests one for Harry, and it is that he will be stabbed in the back by someone he thought was a friend.-- Snuffles
You could also look at it from the point of view of Moody (aka Barty Crouch, Jr) stabbing Harry in the back as he thought Moody was a friend.
Snuffles - Jun 6, 2005 11:22 am (#1533 of 1957)
That's true S.E.Jones I had forgotten that!
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jun 8, 2005 9:53 am (#1534 of 1957)
I just have to add that from what I have learned in psychology, phobias can be quite rational. If you have a phobia of something that can actually cause you harm then its rational. Spiders (my biggest phobia) can bite, and the poisonous one's can kill, so its perfectly natural to be afraid of something that might kill you. Same goes for the fear of heights. You could fall from a high place and get hurt. There are some phobias however that are irrational, such as claurophobia, or fear of clowns (also one of mine) which I have learned is quite a popular one. Clowns don't usually hurt people, unless a murderer dresses up as one, or if you're watching the movie "It". Thats all I have to say.
applepie - Jun 8, 2005 10:48 am (#1535 of 1957)
Matilda, precisely why my husband hates clowns. I, however, have no problem with them. But, I have not seen the movie. I'm not much for thrillers.
Ron has proven to be very brave in the face of his phobia. I cannot imagine going into a forest full of overgrown roaches. I would simply die.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jun 8, 2005 10:52 am (#1536 of 1957)
Edited Jun 8, 2005 11:53 am
I haven't seen the movie either actually. My fear is applied more to dolls or porcelin figures of clowns, like the ones all over my grandmothers house. I cannot stand ventriliquist dummy's either. I just have this thing, stemming from childhood about dolls coming to life and killing people, like Chucky.
I am very proud of Ron for standing up to his phobia like that. I hyperventelate(sp?) and tear up from the sight of a tiny spider 5ft away.
applepie - Jun 8, 2005 10:58 am (#1537 of 1957)
"My fear is applied more to dolls or porcelin figures of clowns, like the ones all over my grandmothers house. I cannot stand ventriliquist dummy's either." - Matilda
I very much agree with this. Birthday parties with clowns do not bother me, but I see your point with the porcelin ones. I feel kind "spooked" by them too........ Sometimes certain baby dolls whose eyes open and close do the same to me.
GryffEndora - Jun 8, 2005 10:58 am (#1538 of 1957)
Matilda Jones - One of my many mottos is "Clowns are Evil!" The number of times a kids show has had a scary clown/doll or Dummy would lead me to agree with your assessment of clowns and dummy's being scary. I'm with you!
I completely agree that Ron is incredibly brave to face the acromantulas. I couldn't handle giant spiders, roaches, tics or probably any giant bug. I would have peed my pants and ran for my life. I think Ron is a hero for getting through the whole thing safe and dry.
Liz Mann - Jun 8, 2005 4:28 pm (#1539 of 1957)
Edited Jun 8, 2005 5:31 pm
I just have to add that from what I have learned in psychology, phobias can be quite rational.
Actually I think the definition of 'phobia' is "A persistent, abnormal, and irrational fear of a specific thing or situation that compels one to avoid it, despite the awareness and reassurance that it is not dangerous." (Dictionary.com) I did psychology too, by the way. Yes, spiders can be dangerous because they can bite, and heights can be dangerous because you could fall, but there is a difference between a justified fear of a thing and a phobia. A person with a fear of heights (like myself) won't, say, go on a ferris wheel. A person with an actual phobia won't step on the bottom rung of a ladder (rational thing to be scared of, but the fear is on an irrational level). A person with a fear of spiders wouldn't want to touch one or risk having one on them (I don't like knowing one's in my room in case it comes down onto my bed). A person with an actual phobia, like Ron, wouldn't even be in the same room as even a tiny one (like in CoS when they found the spiders in the corridor where Mrs Norris was attacked, he was keeping as far back as the corridor would allow and seemed to be fighting the impulse to run, even though the spiders were no where near him, nor were they poisonous, nor were they paying any attention to him).
applepie - Jun 8, 2005 7:01 pm (#1540 of 1957)
But, you have to give it to Ron. He did hang in there in the Forbidden Forest pretty well, didn't he?
The One - Jun 9, 2005 12:10 pm (#1541 of 1957)
Yes, but he did not do anything usefull. His only action when "under fire" was to save the dog, and that was on Harry's orders.
Liz Mann - Jun 9, 2005 3:16 pm (#1542 of 1957)
He was sitting paralysed with fear the whole time.
Czarina II - Jun 10, 2005 5:44 pm (#1543 of 1957)
Edited by Jun 10, 2005 6:44 pm
Well, the poor lad was in a state of complete terror and panic! Understandably, he was not very useful. He went along because Harry convinced him, and he wanted to help Hagrid and Hermione. The latter reason is likely the only reason he didn't turn tail and run for his life the second he saw the river of spiders heading into the forest. He could have easily let Harry go by himself, but he didn't. In fact, were I in his place, I would have done just that. "Let's go back to bed, Harry, and in the morning we'll get McGonagall to have a search party come with us..." -- something along those lines. If someone I cared deeply about convinced me to travel to Australia (where I refuse to go because they have giant spiders) and then proceeded to get kidnapped in the Outback, I would be hardpressed to go searching for them.
Ron really DID prove to be useful considering the circumstances. Phobias may be psychological, but they are a lot like disabilities. Sufferers go from not wanting to do something to not being able to do something. (I am not able to take a shower in the presence of a spider, for instance, no matter how dirty I am. If a spider appears while I am showering, I am out of there, shampoo and all.) It takes a lot of concentration on the part of phobia sufferers to remain rational when their phobia takes over, so it's no wonder Ron wasn't much of a help visiting Aragog -- especially since Aragog was as big as an elephant and was actually planning to feed him to his children! No well-meaning little Charlotte dropping in. Quite a rational fear, actually. It was Harry who was really being irrational in that particular circumstance.
Liz Mann - Jun 13, 2005 10:14 am (#1544 of 1957)
A person with a phobia can act very irrationally. I saw a video in psychology class where a woman was having therapy to overcome a phobia. She had a fear of birds and feathers. The psychologist brought out a feather (it was nowhere near her) and she started crying and trembling and panicing. Ron did pretty well considering.
applepie - Jun 13, 2005 11:36 am (#1545 of 1957)
I agree. He was much braver than I.
Madame Pomfrey - Jun 13, 2005 5:32 pm (#1546 of 1957)
Edited Jun 13, 2005 6:33 pm
Ron did do well with his fear of spiders. I dont think alot of people who have such fears would have been coaxed into the dark forrest to begin with.I think he was a real trooper. Lol about the roaches Applepie,I have the same fear and will scream the house down if I see one.
Ydnam96 - Jun 13, 2005 8:45 pm (#1547 of 1957)
(me too, I hate hate hate spiders. I live alone though...so I have had to learn to deal with them. I spray them with whatever aresol can is nearest then get a large handful of papertowels and squish with my head turned. The aresol is to stun them. I've found that hair spray works well, since it's goopy. The other day all I had within reach was lysol and that seemed to slow it down a bit. I do however have a great paranoia of ticks. They scare me and gross me out more than spiders)
But back to topic.
I think Ron is rather brave. He survived in the house with the twins all those years and he has not been afraid to do whatever has been necessary to help Harry. I'm thinking specifically of the chess game where he sacrificed himself, full well knowing he could have been killed. Now that's bravery.
Liz Mann - Jun 14, 2005 1:15 pm (#1548 of 1957)
And he didn't even hesitate in that game. As soon as he realised it was necessary he was willing to do it. And he was only eleven. And he followed Harry into the Chamber of Secrets without even a shred of doubt (although admittedly his sister was concerned there).
Jennifer Anderson - Jun 14, 2005 1:59 pm (#1549 of 1957)
Edited Jun 14, 2005 3:00 pm
And when he "followed" Harry into the Chamber of Secrets he was the one who said lets go.
Liz Mann - Jun 14, 2005 2:08 pm (#1550 of 1957)
That's true. Nobody followed anybody, they both just went.
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Liz Mann - Aug 2, 2005 9:29 am (#1551 of 1957)
So what did everybody think of Ron in Half-Blood Prince? I thought he was a bit of a prat where Lavender was concerned, but I wouldn't have him any other way. He wouldn't be Ron if he wasn't a bit of a prat sometimes.
Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 2, 2005 9:38 am (#1552 of 1957)
Edited Aug 2, 2005 10:40 am
Liz, I thought Ron needed the stern speech he got from Harry during the quidditch practice. I was quite surpised by the determination Ron showed in the closing hours of the year especially, the scene where Ron took the lead in asserting that they would see this through to the end together.
wwtMask - Aug 2, 2005 9:40 am (#1553 of 1957)
I thought Won-Won's thing with Lavendar was funny. I found it refreshing that, for a change, he seemed to have the leverage in his relationship(can we call it that yet?) with Hermione and that he knew the right buttons to press. Also, Ron shows once again that he's equal to being Harry's best friend and comrade-in-arms, fighting side by side with the rest of the Order against DEs. The guy has got guts; I don't think he needs to ever worry about whether he can measure up to his other brothers.
Star Crossed - Aug 2, 2005 10:18 am (#1554 of 1957)
I was absolutely astounded at the stupidity of Ron in HBP, especially where Lav-Lav (Can we please call her that? ;D) was concerned. Like Liz said, he wouldn't Ron if he didn't do something pratty. But the thing that makes him really Ron is at the end when he's so determined to help Harry. I really hope the trio goes to Privet Drive. Betcha Pet wouldn't be too happy with a qualified wizard and witch in her house...
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 2, 2005 10:42 am (#1555 of 1957)
Ron showed a lot of courage with his commitment to Harry in the end. It will not be easy facing down his mother! I'm not much of a shipper. I thought the thing with Lav-Lav was amusing. Ron most certainly was a prat. Too bad it took a dose of poison to bring him around. LPO
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 2, 2005 1:22 pm (#1556 of 1957)
I will have to wait untill I re-read for specifics to make a better post, but I felt that, aside from the Lav-Lav (thats just funny)/Hermione stuff he actually acted quite a bit more mature then we've seen him in the past.
Liz Mann - Aug 2, 2005 1:56 pm (#1557 of 1957)
Edited Aug 2, 2005 2:57 pm
Besides, people don't improve if they don't have experiences to teach them the necessary lessons. Part of the reason Ron's so loveable to me is his blatent stupidity at times. Also, I think the reason J.K. did the whole Lav Lav thing is because she didn't want Hermione to be the first person he ever kissed, same reason Cho was in there.
Ponine - Aug 2, 2005 2:53 pm (#1558 of 1957)
I honestly found Ron lovable, laughable, annoying and completely like most of the 16 year old boys I have known in my life (of course, they tend to be more adorable from a good distance... )
Finn BV - Aug 2, 2005 4:15 pm (#1559 of 1957)
Edited Aug 2, 2005 5:15 pm
Well, I felt that Ron seemed like he'd had a little too much to drink the nights before all of the stuff with Lav-Lav, if you know what I mean…
Other than that, I agree with Matilda, Ron seemed very mature for his age, but the 'ship sort of takes over all the maturity stuf.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 2, 2005 6:45 pm (#1560 of 1957)
I think Ron is becoming a little more sensitive. At least he did not want to hurt Lav-Lav. He grew up a lot in this book. LPO
Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 2, 2005 6:54 pm (#1561 of 1957)
LPO, I agree he has come a long way and developed quite a lot from the ickle Ronniekins as Fred and George called him on his first journey to Hogwarts to the rapidly maturing wizard seen in the Hours follwoing Dumbledore's. I would be surprised if his achievements did not rival or surpass those of his brothers. The only one who may surpass him is Ginny.
Madam Pince - Aug 2, 2005 8:32 pm (#1562 of 1957)
I think the whole bit about Harry "pretending" to have given Ron the Felix Felicis shows us that Ron is quite capable of doing great things -- the main thing that was holding him back up to now was his own lack of confidence in himself. Now that Ron is aware of that fact, I think he will become more formidable (wizarding skills-wise) in the last book.
Growing up with Fred & George's constant teasing was probably hard on his self-esteem, but he seemed to "blossom" a good deal in this book when he is out from under the daily shadow of his older brothers. His confidence in himself has grown, and probably will continue to grow.
Steve Newton - Aug 3, 2005 5:43 am (#1563 of 1957)
Lack of confidence also held Neville back. Are there more connections between Ron and Neville? Both purebloods.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 3, 2005 7:17 am (#1564 of 1957)
Steve good connection. Neville and Ron both grew up in the Wizarding World knowing what is expected of them. They were both in others shadows. Harry and Hermione had no preconceived expectations or burdens. They had the freedom to excel. Ron started to blossom in OoP when Fred and George left. I was glad to see it continue in HBP. LPO
Verity - Aug 4, 2005 6:53 am (#1565 of 1957)
I felt like the poisoning was a turning point for Ron. After nearly losing his life, he seemed to come to grips better with his feelings for Hermione, and at the same time, realized that he was not happy with the shallow and purely physical relationship he had with Lavender. I think this new sense of maturity also played out in his relationships with others as well. For example, he was a lot more accepting of Luna Lovegood, which I was very glad to see. I think it shows just how much Ron's grown up in the last year. It was nice to see Ron with a little more depth than we've seen in the last few books.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 5, 2005 1:50 pm (#1566 of 1957)
Edited Aug 5, 2005 2:56 pm
Yes, I agree completely, and I hope that HBP will finally convince the Ron-haters (if they're still out there) that there is more to him than they thought. I fully expect him to be very powerful magically in book 7.
I must also add, I was a little dissapointed that the brain incident wasn't disscussed much. I thought it would have serious side-effects, but apparantly I was wrong.
Dr Filibuster - Aug 5, 2005 2:11 pm (#1567 of 1957)
I thought the brain-scars would be relevant too Matilda.
We were reminded of them at one point, so maybe something will still happen in the next book?
PS Couldn't bring myself to say f***l book.
Liz Mann - Aug 5, 2005 3:24 pm (#1568 of 1957)
I hope there won't be anymore on them.
Paulus Maximus - Aug 5, 2005 10:47 pm (#1569 of 1957)
Edited Aug 5, 2005 11:47 pm
PS Couldn't bring myself to say f***l book.
Forgive my ignorance, and any unwitting obscenity on my part... but what is obscene about the letters I, N, and A?
Dr Filibuster - Aug 6, 2005 12:36 am (#1570 of 1957)
Final isn't obscene; I'm just in denial about the end of the Potter novels.
I wonder what the more mature Ron, boyfriend of head girl Hermoine, will be like in HP7.
Will the Dursley household be his first trip to a muggle home? Perhaps we'll hear that he's been to the Granger's place first?
How will the rest of the Weasleys treat the news that he's going out with Hermione? I think most of them will be like us and say; "well it's about time you two got together, we've been expecting this for years!"
If Molly gets wind of the Harry/Ginny 'ship I think Ron will yet again be overshadowed by a sibling. For once though, I think he won't mind.
Finn BV - Aug 6, 2005 10:37 am (#1571 of 1957)
Edited Aug 6, 2005 11:37 am
Will the Dursley household be his first trip to a muggle home? --Dr Filibuster
Well, he has already been… Does "Ton-Tongue Toffee Incident" mean anything to you?
I think Molly will take well to Ginny's and Ron's 'ships. She will be pleased as, the two people they have crushes on, are the two people who are always being invited to their house during the summer.
Liz Mann - Aug 6, 2005 11:55 am (#1572 of 1957)
Edited Aug 6, 2005 12:56 pm
She might be more excited about Harry/Ginny, though, because I think she would be thrilled if it worked out between them and they ended up getting married, because then Harry would actually be her son (in-law), which is something she's wanted probably ever since he first came to stay with them in book two.
But of course she will be very pleased about Ron/Hermione, too, because she likes Hermione as well.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 6, 2005 1:14 pm (#1573 of 1957)
After Phlegm, I mean Fluer, I'm sure Hermione and Harry will be welcomed with open arms! Arthur will be beside himself, a Muggle daughter in law! Ron will make is dad very happy.
Liz, I like the new Avatar! LPO
Finn BV - Aug 6, 2005 5:25 pm (#1574 of 1957)
Arthur will be beside himself, a Muggle daughter in law! --LPO
I do hope you mean Muggle-born.
**feels nitpicky** I think Ron made a good choice, as you say, after Bill's choice of Fleur.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 6, 2005 6:25 pm (#1575 of 1957)
I stand corrected a Muggle born daughter-in-law. She is the brightest witch of her age after all. Ron made a very good choice. LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 7, 2005 3:37 pm (#1576 of 1957)
Edited Aug 7, 2005 4:37 pm
Thanks, LPO. Took it myself.
Yes, Arthur would be very pleased with a muggle-born daughter in law. Let's just hope Ron and Hermione survive to get married and Arthur survives to see it.
J Hood - Aug 7, 2005 3:49 pm (#1577 of 1957)
Nothing like being a downer Liz.
Uncle Mikey - Aug 7, 2005 5:04 pm (#1578 of 1957)
Molly's practically adopted Harry as it is from the get-go. I wouldn't be surprised if she's already privately worked out Ginny's wedding plans.
Ron and Hermione would be the icing on the cake (accompanied by, perhaps, the arrival of Bill and Fleur's first child).
Liz Mann - Aug 8, 2005 12:24 pm (#1579 of 1957)
Molly the grandmother. Can't you just see it! I think a fan artist should draw that.
J Hood - I'm not trying to be a downer, just realistic.
J Hood - Aug 8, 2005 12:39 pm (#1580 of 1957)
Liz - Just giving you a hard time. We had like 3 or 4 good posts about a big wedding between Ron and Hermione and then you said I hope everyone makes it until then. It was just an unexpected shock. I do agree though that I do hope that everyone makes it. There has just been way too many close calls already for the Family Weasley for them all to get out safely. Not that I'm hoping for anyone to die, but if it must happen I guess we can root for it being Percy at least. (Is that morbid?) I got to go I feel all weird just writing this.
Uncle Mikey - Aug 8, 2005 4:59 pm (#1581 of 1957)
Liz, you and J both make good points. No one's out of the woods yet and, if JKR has anything to say about it, the final book's going to be a solid no-holds-barred showdown. The closer we get to the final book's release the more all of us are going to be suffering from fingers being crossed too tightly.
Which is why *any* wedding at the end will be all the more festive. It would be the affirmation of Love after the most bitter and deadliest trials ever faced by Our Heroes. It would be the greatest of all rewards for whoever makes it to the end . . . where "I Won" could easily be rewritten as "I Do!"
(OK, so I'm sentimental. Sue me.)
Liz Mann - Aug 9, 2005 6:55 am (#1582 of 1957)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I hope there is a wedding at the end too. That would, as you say, be the perfect way to show that the good side has won. I wonder if Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione could have a double wedding? Like at the end of Pride and Prejudice.
Steve Newton - Aug 9, 2005 10:15 am (#1583 of 1957)
In HBP did anyone note any effects of the brain attack on Ron at the MOM? Nothing leapt out at me, but, I sometimes miss the subtleties.
Mattew Bates - Aug 9, 2005 10:19 am (#1584 of 1957)
No deep effects that I noted, either. He did offer to show Hermione his scars at one point, though.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 9, 2005 2:07 pm (#1585 of 1957)
Thats what I was saying. There were no mentions of any effects, and it was only mentioned once like Mattew said.
Liz Mann - Aug 9, 2005 2:14 pm (#1586 of 1957)
Maybe there won't be any effects. *crosses fingers and hopes*
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 9, 2005 3:59 pm (#1587 of 1957)
Steve that is an interesting question. I did not notice anything. In OoP Madame Pomfrey said that thoughts leave deeper scars than almost anything. In GoF Harry accuses Ron of wanting a scar. Now Ron has one. They must be pretty unique. How many people have been attacked by a brain? I do not recall Hermione getting any scars. Her and Ron have both been seriously injured helping Harry. LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 10, 2005 8:01 am (#1588 of 1957)
But Dumbledore said in OotP that neither Ron nor Hermione would have any lasting effects from their encounters.
Steve Newton - Aug 11, 2005 12:18 pm (#1589 of 1957)
From chapter 22 of HBP, After the Burial
"Fifty-seventh time lucky, you think?" said Harry bitterly.
"Lucky," said Ron suddenly. "Harry, that's it--get lucky!"
"What do you mean?"
"Use your lucky potion!"
"Ron, that's--that's it!" said Hermione, sounding stunned. "Of course! Why didn't I think of it?"
Perhaps the brains did have some effect. In the past when Ron has made a suggestion it has been wrong. Here he is stealing some of Hermione's thunder.
Liz Mann - Aug 11, 2005 3:13 pm (#1590 of 1957)
Hey, there's an idea.
haymoni- Aug 12, 2005 4:13 am (#1591 of 1957)
Maybe he'll get some of Hermione's lines!!!
Liz Mann - Aug 13, 2005 7:06 am (#1592 of 1957)
I've just been thinking... I've been saying on the predictions for book seven thread that I think the seventh book will be the same as the first book, in that Harry, Ron and Hermione will have to work as a team, using all their different skills, to get through physical obstacles to reach the Horcruxes. In other words that the first book, with the Stone, is foreshadowing. But just now I thought, what if that means Ron is going to sacrifice himself the way he did in the chess game, except this time he'll die? That would be my worst nightmare (as far as the books are concerned).
What do you guys think?
frogface - Aug 13, 2005 9:29 am (#1593 of 1957)
I agree liz, I have a half-formed theory in my brain relating to each of the seven tasks in PS/SS representing each of the horcruxes (and I'm sure other people have thought of that too) It certainly doesn't bode well for Ron does it? The again we could be completely wrong
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 13, 2005 11:21 am (#1594 of 1957)
That makes sence Liz, but if he dies, I will lose my faith in JKR. I know that going after the best friend is a good way to get at the hero, but Ron is my absolute favorite character and if he dies I'd...I don't know what I'd do, but it would be bad.
Good Evans - Aug 13, 2005 11:23 am (#1595 of 1957)
Edited Aug 13, 2005 12:35 pm
matilda...... you took the words right out of my mouth
Edit : Paulus Maximum post 1586 - LOL !!!
Paulus Maximus - Aug 13, 2005 11:23 am (#1596 of 1957)
If only Ron had said anything else about divination than "Die, Ron, die..."
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 13, 2005 11:28 am (#1597 of 1957)
Thanks Good Evans. Its nice to know that I'm not completely going overboard. But then again, isn't everyone on this forum slightly overboard in thier feelings for the characters?
Good Evans - Aug 13, 2005 11:31 am (#1598 of 1957)
Absolutely Matilda - thats what makes it such fun. We are passionate but respectful of others opinions. But if Ron goes I will most definitely hex everyone who ever suggested his demise on this forum! - ahem.. not overboard at all
Paulus Maximus - Aug 13, 2005 11:32 am (#1599 of 1957)
Edited Aug 13, 2005 12:33 pm
Oh, shades...
I did not just say that!!!!
Wait... people had been interpreting Ron's little diatribe against Divination that way before...
Liz Mann - Aug 13, 2005 12:03 pm (#1600 of 1957)
Edited Aug 13, 2005 1:03 pm
The thing is, I don't think Hermione's going to die, so wouldn't it be kinda cruel to get Ron and Hermione together (two characters who don't really need to be together as far as the plot's concerned - that we know) and then split them up by killing one of them off? And Ron's death would hurt Harry more than Hermione's.
So what did everybody think of Ron in Half-Blood Prince? I thought he was a bit of a prat where Lavender was concerned, but I wouldn't have him any other way. He wouldn't be Ron if he wasn't a bit of a prat sometimes.
Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 2, 2005 9:38 am (#1552 of 1957)
Edited Aug 2, 2005 10:40 am
Liz, I thought Ron needed the stern speech he got from Harry during the quidditch practice. I was quite surpised by the determination Ron showed in the closing hours of the year especially, the scene where Ron took the lead in asserting that they would see this through to the end together.
wwtMask - Aug 2, 2005 9:40 am (#1553 of 1957)
I thought Won-Won's thing with Lavendar was funny. I found it refreshing that, for a change, he seemed to have the leverage in his relationship(can we call it that yet?) with Hermione and that he knew the right buttons to press. Also, Ron shows once again that he's equal to being Harry's best friend and comrade-in-arms, fighting side by side with the rest of the Order against DEs. The guy has got guts; I don't think he needs to ever worry about whether he can measure up to his other brothers.
Star Crossed - Aug 2, 2005 10:18 am (#1554 of 1957)
I was absolutely astounded at the stupidity of Ron in HBP, especially where Lav-Lav (Can we please call her that? ;D) was concerned. Like Liz said, he wouldn't Ron if he didn't do something pratty.
But the thing that makes him really Ron is at the end when he's so determined to help Harry. I really hope the trio goes to Privet Drive. Betcha Pet wouldn't be too happy with a qualified wizard and witch in her house...Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 2, 2005 10:42 am (#1555 of 1957)
Ron showed a lot of courage with his commitment to Harry in the end. It will not be easy facing down his mother! I'm not much of a shipper. I thought the thing with Lav-Lav was amusing. Ron most certainly was a prat. Too bad it took a dose of poison to bring him around. LPO
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 2, 2005 1:22 pm (#1556 of 1957)
I will have to wait untill I re-read for specifics to make a better post, but I felt that, aside from the Lav-Lav (thats just funny)/Hermione stuff he actually acted quite a bit more mature then we've seen him in the past.
Liz Mann - Aug 2, 2005 1:56 pm (#1557 of 1957)
Edited Aug 2, 2005 2:57 pm
Besides, people don't improve if they don't have experiences to teach them the necessary lessons. Part of the reason Ron's so loveable to me is his blatent stupidity at times. Also, I think the reason J.K. did the whole Lav Lav thing is because she didn't want Hermione to be the first person he ever kissed, same reason Cho was in there.
Ponine - Aug 2, 2005 2:53 pm (#1558 of 1957)
I honestly found Ron lovable, laughable, annoying and completely like most of the 16 year old boys I have known in my life (of course, they tend to be more adorable from a good distance... )
Finn BV - Aug 2, 2005 4:15 pm (#1559 of 1957)
Edited Aug 2, 2005 5:15 pm
Well, I felt that Ron seemed like he'd had a little too much to drink the nights before all of the stuff with Lav-Lav, if you know what I mean…
Other than that, I agree with Matilda, Ron seemed very mature for his age, but the 'ship sort of takes over all the maturity stuf.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 2, 2005 6:45 pm (#1560 of 1957)
I think Ron is becoming a little more sensitive. At least he did not want to hurt Lav-Lav. He grew up a lot in this book. LPO
Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 2, 2005 6:54 pm (#1561 of 1957)
LPO, I agree he has come a long way and developed quite a lot from the ickle Ronniekins as Fred and George called him on his first journey to Hogwarts to the rapidly maturing wizard seen in the Hours follwoing Dumbledore's. I would be surprised if his achievements did not rival or surpass those of his brothers. The only one who may surpass him is Ginny.
Madam Pince - Aug 2, 2005 8:32 pm (#1562 of 1957)
I think the whole bit about Harry "pretending" to have given Ron the Felix Felicis shows us that Ron is quite capable of doing great things -- the main thing that was holding him back up to now was his own lack of confidence in himself. Now that Ron is aware of that fact, I think he will become more formidable (wizarding skills-wise) in the last book.
Growing up with Fred & George's constant teasing was probably hard on his self-esteem, but he seemed to "blossom" a good deal in this book when he is out from under the daily shadow of his older brothers. His confidence in himself has grown, and probably will continue to grow.
Steve Newton - Aug 3, 2005 5:43 am (#1563 of 1957)
Lack of confidence also held Neville back. Are there more connections between Ron and Neville? Both purebloods.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 3, 2005 7:17 am (#1564 of 1957)
Steve good connection. Neville and Ron both grew up in the Wizarding World knowing what is expected of them. They were both in others shadows. Harry and Hermione had no preconceived expectations or burdens. They had the freedom to excel. Ron started to blossom in OoP when Fred and George left. I was glad to see it continue in HBP. LPO
Verity - Aug 4, 2005 6:53 am (#1565 of 1957)
I felt like the poisoning was a turning point for Ron. After nearly losing his life, he seemed to come to grips better with his feelings for Hermione, and at the same time, realized that he was not happy with the shallow and purely physical relationship he had with Lavender. I think this new sense of maturity also played out in his relationships with others as well. For example, he was a lot more accepting of Luna Lovegood, which I was very glad to see. I think it shows just how much Ron's grown up in the last year. It was nice to see Ron with a little more depth than we've seen in the last few books.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 5, 2005 1:50 pm (#1566 of 1957)
Edited Aug 5, 2005 2:56 pm
Yes, I agree completely, and I hope that HBP will finally convince the Ron-haters (if they're still out there) that there is more to him than they thought. I fully expect him to be very powerful magically in book 7.
I must also add, I was a little dissapointed that the brain incident wasn't disscussed much. I thought it would have serious side-effects, but apparantly I was wrong.
Dr Filibuster - Aug 5, 2005 2:11 pm (#1567 of 1957)
I thought the brain-scars would be relevant too Matilda.
We were reminded of them at one point, so maybe something will still happen in the next book?
PS Couldn't bring myself to say f***l book.
Liz Mann - Aug 5, 2005 3:24 pm (#1568 of 1957)
I hope there won't be anymore on them.
Paulus Maximus - Aug 5, 2005 10:47 pm (#1569 of 1957)
Edited Aug 5, 2005 11:47 pm
PS Couldn't bring myself to say f***l book.
Forgive my ignorance, and any unwitting obscenity on my part... but what is obscene about the letters I, N, and A?
Dr Filibuster - Aug 6, 2005 12:36 am (#1570 of 1957)
Final isn't obscene; I'm just in denial about the end of the Potter novels.
I wonder what the more mature Ron, boyfriend of head girl Hermoine, will be like in HP7.
Will the Dursley household be his first trip to a muggle home? Perhaps we'll hear that he's been to the Granger's place first?
How will the rest of the Weasleys treat the news that he's going out with Hermione? I think most of them will be like us and say; "well it's about time you two got together, we've been expecting this for years!"
If Molly gets wind of the Harry/Ginny 'ship I think Ron will yet again be overshadowed by a sibling. For once though, I think he won't mind.
Finn BV - Aug 6, 2005 10:37 am (#1571 of 1957)
Edited Aug 6, 2005 11:37 am
Will the Dursley household be his first trip to a muggle home? --Dr Filibuster
Well, he has already been… Does "Ton-Tongue Toffee Incident" mean anything to you?
I think Molly will take well to Ginny's and Ron's 'ships. She will be pleased as, the two people they have crushes on, are the two people who are always being invited to their house during the summer.
Liz Mann - Aug 6, 2005 11:55 am (#1572 of 1957)
Edited Aug 6, 2005 12:56 pm
She might be more excited about Harry/Ginny, though, because I think she would be thrilled if it worked out between them and they ended up getting married, because then Harry would actually be her son (in-law), which is something she's wanted probably ever since he first came to stay with them in book two.
But of course she will be very pleased about Ron/Hermione, too, because she likes Hermione as well.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 6, 2005 1:14 pm (#1573 of 1957)
After Phlegm, I mean Fluer, I'm sure Hermione and Harry will be welcomed with open arms! Arthur will be beside himself, a Muggle daughter in law! Ron will make is dad very happy.
Liz, I like the new Avatar! LPO
Finn BV - Aug 6, 2005 5:25 pm (#1574 of 1957)
Arthur will be beside himself, a Muggle daughter in law! --LPO
I do hope you mean Muggle-born.
**feels nitpicky** I think Ron made a good choice, as you say, after Bill's choice of Fleur.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 6, 2005 6:25 pm (#1575 of 1957)
I stand corrected a Muggle born daughter-in-law. She is the brightest witch of her age after all. Ron made a very good choice. LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 7, 2005 3:37 pm (#1576 of 1957)
Edited Aug 7, 2005 4:37 pm
Thanks, LPO. Took it myself.
Yes, Arthur would be very pleased with a muggle-born daughter in law. Let's just hope Ron and Hermione survive to get married and Arthur survives to see it.
J Hood - Aug 7, 2005 3:49 pm (#1577 of 1957)
Nothing like being a downer Liz.
Uncle Mikey - Aug 7, 2005 5:04 pm (#1578 of 1957)
Molly's practically adopted Harry as it is from the get-go. I wouldn't be surprised if she's already privately worked out Ginny's wedding plans.
Ron and Hermione would be the icing on the cake (accompanied by, perhaps, the arrival of Bill and Fleur's first child).
Liz Mann - Aug 8, 2005 12:24 pm (#1579 of 1957)
Molly the grandmother. Can't you just see it! I think a fan artist should draw that.
J Hood - I'm not trying to be a downer, just realistic.
J Hood - Aug 8, 2005 12:39 pm (#1580 of 1957)
Liz - Just giving you a hard time. We had like 3 or 4 good posts about a big wedding between Ron and Hermione and then you said I hope everyone makes it until then. It was just an unexpected shock. I do agree though that I do hope that everyone makes it. There has just been way too many close calls already for the Family Weasley for them all to get out safely. Not that I'm hoping for anyone to die, but if it must happen I guess we can root for it being Percy at least. (Is that morbid?) I got to go I feel all weird just writing this.
Uncle Mikey - Aug 8, 2005 4:59 pm (#1581 of 1957)
Liz, you and J both make good points. No one's out of the woods yet and, if JKR has anything to say about it, the final book's going to be a solid no-holds-barred showdown. The closer we get to the final book's release the more all of us are going to be suffering from fingers being crossed too tightly.
Which is why *any* wedding at the end will be all the more festive. It would be the affirmation of Love after the most bitter and deadliest trials ever faced by Our Heroes. It would be the greatest of all rewards for whoever makes it to the end . . . where "I Won" could easily be rewritten as "I Do!"
(OK, so I'm sentimental. Sue me.)
Liz Mann - Aug 9, 2005 6:55 am (#1582 of 1957)
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I hope there is a wedding at the end too. That would, as you say, be the perfect way to show that the good side has won. I wonder if Harry and Ginny and Ron and Hermione could have a double wedding? Like at the end of Pride and Prejudice.
Steve Newton - Aug 9, 2005 10:15 am (#1583 of 1957)
In HBP did anyone note any effects of the brain attack on Ron at the MOM? Nothing leapt out at me, but, I sometimes miss the subtleties.
Mattew Bates - Aug 9, 2005 10:19 am (#1584 of 1957)
No deep effects that I noted, either. He did offer to show Hermione his scars at one point, though.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 9, 2005 2:07 pm (#1585 of 1957)
Thats what I was saying. There were no mentions of any effects, and it was only mentioned once like Mattew said.
Liz Mann - Aug 9, 2005 2:14 pm (#1586 of 1957)
Maybe there won't be any effects. *crosses fingers and hopes*
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 9, 2005 3:59 pm (#1587 of 1957)
Steve that is an interesting question. I did not notice anything. In OoP Madame Pomfrey said that thoughts leave deeper scars than almost anything. In GoF Harry accuses Ron of wanting a scar. Now Ron has one. They must be pretty unique. How many people have been attacked by a brain? I do not recall Hermione getting any scars. Her and Ron have both been seriously injured helping Harry. LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 10, 2005 8:01 am (#1588 of 1957)
But Dumbledore said in OotP that neither Ron nor Hermione would have any lasting effects from their encounters.
Steve Newton - Aug 11, 2005 12:18 pm (#1589 of 1957)
From chapter 22 of HBP, After the Burial
"Fifty-seventh time lucky, you think?" said Harry bitterly.
"Lucky," said Ron suddenly. "Harry, that's it--get lucky!"
"What do you mean?"
"Use your lucky potion!"
"Ron, that's--that's it!" said Hermione, sounding stunned. "Of course! Why didn't I think of it?"
Perhaps the brains did have some effect. In the past when Ron has made a suggestion it has been wrong. Here he is stealing some of Hermione's thunder.
Liz Mann - Aug 11, 2005 3:13 pm (#1590 of 1957)
Hey, there's an idea.
haymoni- Aug 12, 2005 4:13 am (#1591 of 1957)
Maybe he'll get some of Hermione's lines!!!
Liz Mann - Aug 13, 2005 7:06 am (#1592 of 1957)
I've just been thinking... I've been saying on the predictions for book seven thread that I think the seventh book will be the same as the first book, in that Harry, Ron and Hermione will have to work as a team, using all their different skills, to get through physical obstacles to reach the Horcruxes. In other words that the first book, with the Stone, is foreshadowing. But just now I thought, what if that means Ron is going to sacrifice himself the way he did in the chess game, except this time he'll die? That would be my worst nightmare (as far as the books are concerned).
What do you guys think?
frogface - Aug 13, 2005 9:29 am (#1593 of 1957)
I agree liz, I have a half-formed theory in my brain relating to each of the seven tasks in PS/SS representing each of the horcruxes (and I'm sure other people have thought of that too) It certainly doesn't bode well for Ron does it? The again we could be completely wrong
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 13, 2005 11:21 am (#1594 of 1957)
That makes sence Liz, but if he dies, I will lose my faith in JKR. I know that going after the best friend is a good way to get at the hero, but Ron is my absolute favorite character and if he dies I'd...I don't know what I'd do, but it would be bad.
Good Evans - Aug 13, 2005 11:23 am (#1595 of 1957)
Edited Aug 13, 2005 12:35 pm
matilda...... you took the words right out of my mouth
Edit : Paulus Maximum post 1586 - LOL !!!
Paulus Maximus - Aug 13, 2005 11:23 am (#1596 of 1957)
If only Ron had said anything else about divination than "Die, Ron, die..."
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 13, 2005 11:28 am (#1597 of 1957)
Thanks Good Evans. Its nice to know that I'm not completely going overboard. But then again, isn't everyone on this forum slightly overboard in thier feelings for the characters?
Good Evans - Aug 13, 2005 11:31 am (#1598 of 1957)
Absolutely Matilda - thats what makes it such fun. We are passionate but respectful of others opinions. But if Ron goes I will most definitely hex everyone who ever suggested his demise on this forum! - ahem.. not overboard at all
Paulus Maximus - Aug 13, 2005 11:32 am (#1599 of 1957)
Edited Aug 13, 2005 12:33 pm
Oh, shades...
I did not just say that!!!!
Wait... people had been interpreting Ron's little diatribe against Divination that way before...
Liz Mann - Aug 13, 2005 12:03 pm (#1600 of 1957)
Edited Aug 13, 2005 1:03 pm
The thing is, I don't think Hermione's going to die, so wouldn't it be kinda cruel to get Ron and Hermione together (two characters who don't really need to be together as far as the plot's concerned - that we know) and then split them up by killing one of them off? And Ron's death would hurt Harry more than Hermione's.
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Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 15, 2005 10:40 am (#1601 of 1957)
Ron has had a few close calls. I hope he doesn't die and all the clues are red herrings. I can't help but think one of the Weasley's will die. Since DD died I feel JKR is quite capable of killing anyone off! LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 16, 2005 10:28 am (#1602 of 1957)
Edited Aug 16, 2005 11:30 am
I don't think Dumbledore is an indication that she can kill off anyone, because I think Dumbledore's death was obvious, and the reason for it was obvious. She had planned it from the beginning. If she killed off a character for no reason other than she thought someone had to die, then it would be an indication that she can kill off anyone.
How many clues are there that Ron will die? The only one I can think of is his sacrificing himself in the chess game, and that only stands as a clue if it's also true that the quest for the Horcruxes is going to be very similar to the quest for the Stone. And even then it might not be. J.K. might not even have put it in as a red herring, she might not have thought anything of it. Most of the people that think Ron's going to die, though, seem to think so because of a hunch or because he's Harry's best friend and it would hurt Harry. Does Harry really need to be hurt again? J.K. wouldn't kill off Ron for that reason alone. It would have to be something bigger than that. Even if she makes it that Ron needs to sacrifice himself so that Harry can get to a Horcrux, why would she write it so that that situation arises? She would need a reason for Ron to die before working out a method of death.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 16, 2005 2:57 pm (#1603 of 1957)
Liz the chess game, Ron saying "die Ron, die" in divination, Mrs. Weasley's Boggart (Ron's body was the first one Harry saw) and Ron's brush with death in HBP. I see those as clues. I agree she needs a reason to kill Ron or anyone off. She knew all along with Sirius and Dumbledore. I think that she really likes Dumbledore and so do we. It must have been difficult to write that scene. LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 17, 2005 2:22 am (#1604 of 1957)
The "die, Ron, die" thing I think is just a joke. The Boggart, though...
Sirius and Dumbledore's deaths I can understand now. Dumbledore had to die so that Harry would be on his own. Sirius had to die to prepare Harry for Dumbledore's death (if Dumbledore had been the first person Harry cared about to die, he would have reacted the same way as he did with Sirius - not a good state to be in when you're about to go look for Horcruxes). Ron, though... I can't see what good his death would be to the overall story. Any ideas?
Wizadora - Aug 17, 2005 8:27 am (#1605 of 1957)
Liz Mann - that is an excellent point about why Sirius had to die. JK did say there was a reason. I think that would be an acceptable one. He did certainly take it better - used it as fuel himself for his path rather than blame it on his path.
Paulus Maximus - Aug 17, 2005 1:43 pm (#1606 of 1957)
The "die, Ron, die" thing I think is just a joke.
That's just it. When Ron jokes about something, he's usually right...
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 17, 2005 7:59 pm (#1607 of 1957)
Liz the only reason I can think of goes back to the Chess game. Ron has to sacrifice himself so Harry can finish his task. Good point about Sirius. Harry can see that he no longer has any protectors. LPO
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 18, 2005 4:17 am (#1608 of 1957)
The "die, Ron, die" joke Ron made was about how you shouldn't obsess about prophecies, but just get on with your life. At the time I thought it was very good advice, and still think so. Dumbledore says pretty much the same thing in HBP "Horcruxes," only he's more verbose.
Liz Mann - Aug 18, 2005 8:16 am (#1609 of 1957)
That's a good way to look at it Mrs Brisbee.
It's possible that Ron might sacrifice himself without actually dying. He could risk death but manage to escape it, just like with the chess set. He was willing to die and almost did but didn't.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Aug 25, 2005 11:45 am (#1610 of 1957)
Liz, if Ron does have to sacrifice himself, I hope you're right on that last point. I really hope he manages to escape death.
Morgan Champion - Aug 26, 2005 2:10 am (#1611 of 1957)
Same here.
Finn BV - Aug 26, 2005 3:18 pm (#1612 of 1957)
I hope you're right too, Liz, but I'm afraid if something comes where Ron has to sacrifice himself like the chess game, the outcome's not going to be the same. It happened once, in the beginning, and Ron survived. If it happens again, in the end, Ron can't just "survive" again. It has to be different.
Don't get me wrong, I want the whole trio to come out okay, but if that situation happens Ron's not going to make it. Sorry.
Ydnam96 - Aug 26, 2005 6:16 pm (#1613 of 1957)
Well, if you think along the Ron = Dumbeldore theory (which I don't in the literal sense). One could argue that DD sacrificed himself for Harry, and in a sense that is like what Ron did in the chess game. Lot's of people have said that in the chess game Ron represented DD...
It's a interesting idea. I'm not sure if I follow it...but it's interesting.
Anyway, I don't want Ron to die. I didn't want DD to die either, but we don't have much control over the story.
Paulus Maximus - Aug 27, 2005 6:58 am (#1614 of 1957)
Problem is, Snape isn't the white queen...
...is he?
Ydnam96 - Aug 27, 2005 7:10 am (#1615 of 1957)
Edited Aug 27, 2005 8:16 am
Well, you know he could be at that! I'm thinking Narnia now, where the White Queen showed up in every book but looked different in each one. Not to say that Snape is a shape shifter or whatever, but that in a literary sense the "white queen" could be term or icon for someone who is hiding, or not what they seem, or someone with many faces. Which, is kinda like Snape...
(Although, I am one of those who is holding out hope for Snape in the end)
And back to our regularly scheduled Ron Weasley discussion:
This may sound strange, but let me have a go at it.
I see HRH as three parts of a whole (kinda like the Holy Trinity). Harry is lacking in certain abilities and knowledge and all that. Ron and Hermione fill in the gaps that Harry is missing. (Not that I don't see Harry as a whole person per se, just that as a character I can see how all three make up one super character "hero" type.)
In that way I can see that if Harry and Hermione survive then Ron will too. I can't see one of them living with out the other two. Although it very well may happen that one of them dies...but in that situation I see them as missing a very important part of themselves, since they are all a bit of each other.
Does that make sense?
Madam Pince - Aug 27, 2005 7:22 am (#1616 of 1957)
That makes perfect sense, Ydnam! One of the best "summing-ups" I've heard! I didn't realize it, but I think you've put your finger on the reason why I have never really felt that any one of the three will die -- they are all parts of a whole.
Liz Mann - Aug 28, 2005 5:07 am (#1617 of 1957)
I am doing a vote on my website at the moment on who (if any) of the trio will die. The poll will be running until the end of the month but at the moment exactly 50% of the people who voted think that none of them are going to die, and exactly 50% think that at least one of them will. Out of the latter half, which amounts to 21 votes in total, 1 person thinks all three will die, 10 think Harry will die, 7 think Ron, 1 thinks both Harry and Ron will and 2 think both Ron and Hermione.
So basically, out of 42 people, 11 people think Ron will die and 31 think he won't.
Finn BV - Aug 28, 2005 7:54 am (#1618 of 1957)
I was one of the 31.
I like playing against myself, don't I?
Robert Dierken - Aug 28, 2005 1:13 pm (#1619 of 1957)
Problem is, Snape isn't the white queen...
...is he? Paulus Maximus, post #1604
No, but Sir Cadogan seems to be the White Knight from Through the Looking Glass
Liz Mann - Aug 28, 2005 1:53 pm (#1620 of 1957)
That's okay, Finn.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 28, 2005 6:18 pm (#1621 of 1957)
Edited Aug 28, 2005 7:21 pm
Ydnam96 I agree. Not only are three minds are better than one three is a very magical number. I think that is why DD encouraged Harry to confide in Ron and Hermione. JKR has mentioned how loyal Ron is. I am looking forward to how he will contribute now that he is growing up.
Liz can you post your website? LPO
Herm oh ninny - Aug 29, 2005 9:48 am (#1622 of 1957)
Edited Aug 29, 2005 10:49 am
<--Holding hands over my ears and chanting "Ron will not die, Ron will not die, Ron will not die.....
Jennifer Anderson - Aug 29, 2005 11:48 am (#1623 of 1957)
I don't think Ron will die unless it very late in this last book.
Liz Mann - Aug 29, 2005 12:20 pm (#1624 of 1957)
LPO - sure.
Jennifer - you're probably right, there.
Herm oh ninny - hope you're right.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 29, 2005 2:44 pm (#1625 of 1957)
Ydnam96, I completely agree. I had a random half-theory supporting that the trio must stay together, because they are each one part of a whole in a philosophical sense. I believe I posted it somewhere a long time ago, but I have no idea where.
Ydnam96 - Aug 29, 2005 8:35 pm (#1626 of 1957)
Yah, I must say the idea isn't my own, I've picked it up after reading through this forum and mugglenet and the COS forums for so long. I'm sure it was someone else's idea first. But now it just makes sense to me.
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 30, 2005 5:52 am (#1627 of 1957)
At the end of HBP Ron says he plans to have a word with Fred and George about who they sell their merchandise to. I think confronting Fred and George will be a very important step in maturing for Ron. They have teased their little brother mercilessly over the years, and done a few disturbingly cruel things to him, like try to trick him into taking an Unbreakable Vow when he was little. I think Ron will gain a lot of confidence if he can stand up to them, and give them a deserved telling off. But it's not going to be an easy thing to do. There's two of them to Ron's one, and they are used to doing whatever pleases them, and probably won't take Ron's criticism seriously. I hope Ron doesn't back down though.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Aug 30, 2005 8:08 am (#1628 of 1957)
I agree Mrs. Brisbee! I think for Ron, that will be a turning point. I hope the twins at least hear him out and realize that he's right!
As for Ron's possible death in book 7, I'm following Herm oh ninny's lead...
Herm oh ninny - Aug 30, 2005 8:09 am (#1629 of 1957)
Edited Aug 30, 2005 9:10 am
All together now "Ron will not die, Ron will not die, Ron will not die....."
LOL
Liz Mann - Aug 30, 2005 9:19 am (#1630 of 1957)
I think Fred and George would listen when they find out what their merchandice were used for.
Star Crossed - Aug 30, 2005 3:13 pm (#1631 of 1957)
Can they actually stop who they sell who their merchandise to? Isn't that illegal?
timrew - Aug 30, 2005 4:20 pm (#1632 of 1957)
Star Crossed:- Can they actually stop who they sell who their merchandise to? Isn't that illegal?
In this country it would be, Star Crossed. The Smart-ass lawyers would say it was violating their client's Human Rights!
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 30, 2005 6:59 pm (#1633 of 1957)
I think Fred and George will be appalled at how their merchandise was used. They may not accept Ron's telling off but I bet they will be careful as to who buys what in their shop. Hopefully the UK lawyers won't have any jurisdiction in Diagon ally! LPO
Celeste Tseng - Aug 30, 2005 7:47 pm (#1634 of 1957)
How did Ron get that funny nickname as Won-Won?
Herm oh ninny - Aug 30, 2005 8:51 pm (#1635 of 1957)
It was one of Lavander's more brilliant ideas, and that is saying something...
Ydnam96 - Aug 30, 2005 9:23 pm (#1636 of 1957)
Hmmm...In the US a store can put up a sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" and that pretty much keeps them safe legally if they don't want to sell something or give someone service.
In a magical world. I would imagine that the boys could cook up some spell that would just make the verboten items invisible to certain people.
Wisey - Aug 31, 2005 2:00 am (#1637 of 1957)
If Ron's character doesn't do some serious maturing between Bk6 and Bk7, I think we can all kiss his character goodbye. Someone that stupid shouldn't survive a wizard war, no matter how good his friends are. Sorry Herm Oh Ninny.
Romulus - Aug 31, 2005 2:51 am (#1638 of 1957)
# Boring UK contract law alert*
Anyone in a shop (in England and Wales at least) can refuse to sell anything to anyone. The goods on the shelf, even if marked with a price, are not deemed to be offered; they are an invitation to people to make an offer at that price. When you take the goods to the till, you are making an offer, which can be refused for any reason. Obviously it would be bad commercial practice to refuse to sell your stuff, but it isn't illegal. So it would be quite ok for F and G to sell their goods to who they like; however, in a world of double agents and polyjuice potions even working out who to trust is difficult!
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 31, 2005 4:34 am (#1639 of 1957)
If Ron's character doesn't do some serious maturing between Bk6 and Bk7, I think we can all kiss his character goodbye. Someone that stupid shouldn't survive a wizard war, no matter how good his friends are. --Wisey
Were you thinking of anything particularly stupid that Ron did, or just in general? I'm not sure I know what you mean. He can be as clueless as the next teenage boy, but most teenage boys mature into perfectly normal folks. Harry, Hermione, and Ginny all have their faults and blind spots too. Why do you think Ron is more hopeless than the others?
Eponine - Aug 31, 2005 5:09 am (#1640 of 1957)
I think Ron has already done some maturing. Yes, he still has more to do, but he's growing up just like the others are.
And stupid? Do you mean grades? Because if I recall correctly, he and Harry got the same amount of O.W.L's. Ron might be a bit clueless when it comes to girls, but he is by no means stupid.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Aug 31, 2005 7:20 am (#1641 of 1957)
I don't think Ron is stupid as much as he's inmature. But, what teenager isn't? I mean, compared to Harry he may seem more childish, but then, Harry's been through things and seen things no child should have to. I don't think Ron is doomed. I think he'll mature a lot in book 7, just as he matured a lot in book 6.
haymoni- Aug 31, 2005 7:59 am (#1642 of 1957)
Ron is normal.
Wisey - Aug 31, 2005 5:49 pm (#1643 of 1957)
I definitely don't mean grades when I said Ron is stupid, it's just that Ron's character seems to miss a lot of things going on around him. I guess I'd call it "street smarts" - when you're able to decifer information going on around you, and usually avoid problems. Not just ignore things until they hit you in the face.
PS - Sorry I'm in the wrong time zone to post in at a respectable time.
Finn BV - Aug 31, 2005 5:52 pm (#1644 of 1957)
Edited Aug 31, 2005 6:54 pm
Wisey, in The Leaky Cauldron/MuggleNet Interview with JKR, JK notes that Ron has grown up:
But Ron — I had a lot of fun with that in this book. I really enjoyed writing the Ron/Lavender business, and the reason that was enjoyable was Ron up to this point has been quite immature compared to the other two and he kind of needed to make himself worthy of Hermione. Now, that didn't mean necessarily physical experience but he had to grow up emotionally and now he's taken a big step up. (bold mine)
I don't think Ron is stupid, just a little bit… slower than the rest of the trio. He's not the brightest of the three but that doesn't mean that he's got to die because he's stupid! As Eponine said, he is a little clueless at girls but I'd hardly think we're grading dating and not academics or smarts or instincts.
Why do you feel this way about him?
Edit: Cross-posted with Wisey. I understand now what you mean, but I'd still disagree he doesn't have to die because of this. And don't worry about the time. Forum time is in Pacific time, which is the west coast of the US. Any time is respectable.
Soul Search - Sep 1, 2005 3:08 pm (#1645 of 1957)
I think, generally, Ron is being sold short.
Keep in mind that he regularly beats Hermione at chess (for six years now?) and, in essense, beat McGonagall at chess in SS/PS, at 12 years old.
Now, I will have to conceed that Ron is not exactly academic, but then neither is Harry. Hermione supplies that ingredient to the mix.
What makes me think we will see Ron as an essential character in book 7 are those startling insights he comes up with. An example in HBP, "After the Burial," page 471 US Ed. "Lucky," said Ron suddenly. Harry, that's it -- get lucky."
I have it in mind that Ron does this once or twice in each book. (But would probably have to re-read to find them.) It is just what makes an above average chess player, especially in the end game: intuitive leaps that turn out to be right.
Harry is going to need intuitive leaps from Ron in the end game.
Ana Cis - Sep 1, 2005 4:39 pm (#1646 of 1957)
Edited by Sep 1, 2005 5:45 pm
I see Ron as someone who lacks confidence because everyone in his familyy is very smart, so he's easily discouraged. Even when he's doing his homework, he gives up easily just because he doesn't feel he's smart enough. So he comes across as being dummer than he actually is. The mirror of Erised truly showed the problem on his lack of self-assurance. He's also a bit insensitive; Harry didn't disagree w/Luna's observation about it. However, the whole tragedy w/DD's death has begun make him to become more reflective and aware about what's going on with the people and the world around him.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 1, 2005 7:05 pm (#1647 of 1957)
I think Ron's struggle to break it off with Lav-Lav shows he is not as insensitive as he was. Pretending to be asleep is much better saying rude things to someone. It never used to bother him to say things that hurt people (SS/PS when he made fun of Hermione, trying to get a date in GoF). Ron has shown some flashes of inspiration. I think there is hope for him. LPO
Wisey - Sep 2, 2005 2:31 pm (#1648 of 1957)
I agree whole heartedly that Ron's character of the trio has the lowest self esteem, which throughtout the books has been his underlying problem, but he has also had a jealous streak. He can't reach his full potential if he keeps his "why me" attitude.
On the point of Ron maturing in Bk6, I must of missed that. Ron only started going out with Lav-Lav because Ginny was having a go about him not having snogged anyone. As for breaking up, he did it the cowardly way which I must confess for his first girl wasn't too cruel.
I must also concede I have been a little hard with my stand on Ron. I don't want any of the major characters to die but knowing JKR they will and think it will be Ron, I sincerely hope I will be wrong.
Liz Mann - Sep 5, 2005 8:32 am (#1649 of 1957)
Edited Sep 5, 2005 9:35 am
Ron started out as immature as he was before in book six (as shown by his going out with Lav-Lav, like you said, Wisey) but the relationship with her made him realise that a relationship isn't just about the physical stuff, it's about the emotional stuff too (something that was lacking with Lavender). Now that he knows that he should be more sensitive for feelings and emotions because he now knows their importance and understands them better. That was Ron's maturing point.
Ana Cis - you're right, Ron does lack self-confidence. As you said, even with his homework he gives up too quickly, almost as though he feels stupid if he doesn't zoom through it (like Hermione), which gets him frustrated, which then makes him perform poorly in his work.
Czarina II - Sep 5, 2005 10:53 pm (#1650 of 1957)
Ron broke up with Lavender 'the cowardly way'? How so? I thought they talked about it. He told her he wanted to break it off, and it seems that Lavender was reluctant about it (and certainly unhappy), but she agreed. Then they did the perfectly normal thing of not looking at each other and avoiding each other, which is pretty hard to do in a small boarding school. It didn't seem cowardly at all. Sure, when Ron was sick he avoided it, but then, he was sick. If he had broken it off then, Lavender would probably have protested 'But you're sick! When you're feeling better, you'll like me again! You're just not yourself!' Thereby, Lavender would be consciously deluding herself, rather than simply being in the dark about Ron's feelings; Ron cared more about her feelings than to do that. We don't know what Ron said to her afterwards, but it's clear that they did talk.
Ron has had a few close calls. I hope he doesn't die and all the clues are red herrings. I can't help but think one of the Weasley's will die. Since DD died I feel JKR is quite capable of killing anyone off! LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 16, 2005 10:28 am (#1602 of 1957)
Edited Aug 16, 2005 11:30 am
I don't think Dumbledore is an indication that she can kill off anyone, because I think Dumbledore's death was obvious, and the reason for it was obvious. She had planned it from the beginning. If she killed off a character for no reason other than she thought someone had to die, then it would be an indication that she can kill off anyone.
How many clues are there that Ron will die? The only one I can think of is his sacrificing himself in the chess game, and that only stands as a clue if it's also true that the quest for the Horcruxes is going to be very similar to the quest for the Stone. And even then it might not be. J.K. might not even have put it in as a red herring, she might not have thought anything of it. Most of the people that think Ron's going to die, though, seem to think so because of a hunch or because he's Harry's best friend and it would hurt Harry. Does Harry really need to be hurt again? J.K. wouldn't kill off Ron for that reason alone. It would have to be something bigger than that. Even if she makes it that Ron needs to sacrifice himself so that Harry can get to a Horcrux, why would she write it so that that situation arises? She would need a reason for Ron to die before working out a method of death.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 16, 2005 2:57 pm (#1603 of 1957)
Liz the chess game, Ron saying "die Ron, die" in divination, Mrs. Weasley's Boggart (Ron's body was the first one Harry saw) and Ron's brush with death in HBP. I see those as clues. I agree she needs a reason to kill Ron or anyone off. She knew all along with Sirius and Dumbledore. I think that she really likes Dumbledore and so do we. It must have been difficult to write that scene. LPO
Liz Mann - Aug 17, 2005 2:22 am (#1604 of 1957)
The "die, Ron, die" thing I think is just a joke. The Boggart, though...
Sirius and Dumbledore's deaths I can understand now. Dumbledore had to die so that Harry would be on his own. Sirius had to die to prepare Harry for Dumbledore's death (if Dumbledore had been the first person Harry cared about to die, he would have reacted the same way as he did with Sirius - not a good state to be in when you're about to go look for Horcruxes). Ron, though... I can't see what good his death would be to the overall story. Any ideas?
Wizadora - Aug 17, 2005 8:27 am (#1605 of 1957)
Liz Mann - that is an excellent point about why Sirius had to die. JK did say there was a reason. I think that would be an acceptable one. He did certainly take it better - used it as fuel himself for his path rather than blame it on his path.
Paulus Maximus - Aug 17, 2005 1:43 pm (#1606 of 1957)
The "die, Ron, die" thing I think is just a joke.
That's just it. When Ron jokes about something, he's usually right...
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 17, 2005 7:59 pm (#1607 of 1957)
Liz the only reason I can think of goes back to the Chess game. Ron has to sacrifice himself so Harry can finish his task. Good point about Sirius. Harry can see that he no longer has any protectors. LPO
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 18, 2005 4:17 am (#1608 of 1957)
The "die, Ron, die" joke Ron made was about how you shouldn't obsess about prophecies, but just get on with your life. At the time I thought it was very good advice, and still think so. Dumbledore says pretty much the same thing in HBP "Horcruxes," only he's more verbose.
Liz Mann - Aug 18, 2005 8:16 am (#1609 of 1957)
That's a good way to look at it Mrs Brisbee.
It's possible that Ron might sacrifice himself without actually dying. He could risk death but manage to escape it, just like with the chess set. He was willing to die and almost did but didn't.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Aug 25, 2005 11:45 am (#1610 of 1957)
Liz, if Ron does have to sacrifice himself, I hope you're right on that last point. I really hope he manages to escape death.
Morgan Champion - Aug 26, 2005 2:10 am (#1611 of 1957)
Same here.
Finn BV - Aug 26, 2005 3:18 pm (#1612 of 1957)
I hope you're right too, Liz, but I'm afraid if something comes where Ron has to sacrifice himself like the chess game, the outcome's not going to be the same. It happened once, in the beginning, and Ron survived. If it happens again, in the end, Ron can't just "survive" again. It has to be different.
Don't get me wrong, I want the whole trio to come out okay, but if that situation happens Ron's not going to make it. Sorry.
Ydnam96 - Aug 26, 2005 6:16 pm (#1613 of 1957)
Well, if you think along the Ron = Dumbeldore theory (which I don't in the literal sense). One could argue that DD sacrificed himself for Harry, and in a sense that is like what Ron did in the chess game. Lot's of people have said that in the chess game Ron represented DD...
It's a interesting idea. I'm not sure if I follow it...but it's interesting.
Anyway, I don't want Ron to die. I didn't want DD to die either, but we don't have much control over the story.
Paulus Maximus - Aug 27, 2005 6:58 am (#1614 of 1957)
Problem is, Snape isn't the white queen...
...is he?
Ydnam96 - Aug 27, 2005 7:10 am (#1615 of 1957)
Edited Aug 27, 2005 8:16 am
Well, you know he could be at that! I'm thinking Narnia now, where the White Queen showed up in every book but looked different in each one. Not to say that Snape is a shape shifter or whatever, but that in a literary sense the "white queen" could be term or icon for someone who is hiding, or not what they seem, or someone with many faces. Which, is kinda like Snape...
(Although, I am one of those who is holding out hope for Snape in the end)
And back to our regularly scheduled Ron Weasley discussion:
This may sound strange, but let me have a go at it.
I see HRH as three parts of a whole (kinda like the Holy Trinity). Harry is lacking in certain abilities and knowledge and all that. Ron and Hermione fill in the gaps that Harry is missing. (Not that I don't see Harry as a whole person per se, just that as a character I can see how all three make up one super character "hero" type.)
In that way I can see that if Harry and Hermione survive then Ron will too. I can't see one of them living with out the other two. Although it very well may happen that one of them dies...but in that situation I see them as missing a very important part of themselves, since they are all a bit of each other.
Does that make sense?
Madam Pince - Aug 27, 2005 7:22 am (#1616 of 1957)
That makes perfect sense, Ydnam! One of the best "summing-ups" I've heard! I didn't realize it, but I think you've put your finger on the reason why I have never really felt that any one of the three will die -- they are all parts of a whole.
Liz Mann - Aug 28, 2005 5:07 am (#1617 of 1957)
I am doing a vote on my website at the moment on who (if any) of the trio will die. The poll will be running until the end of the month but at the moment exactly 50% of the people who voted think that none of them are going to die, and exactly 50% think that at least one of them will. Out of the latter half, which amounts to 21 votes in total, 1 person thinks all three will die, 10 think Harry will die, 7 think Ron, 1 thinks both Harry and Ron will and 2 think both Ron and Hermione.
So basically, out of 42 people, 11 people think Ron will die and 31 think he won't.
Finn BV - Aug 28, 2005 7:54 am (#1618 of 1957)
I was one of the 31.
I like playing against myself, don't I?
Robert Dierken - Aug 28, 2005 1:13 pm (#1619 of 1957)
Problem is, Snape isn't the white queen...
...is he? Paulus Maximus, post #1604
No, but Sir Cadogan seems to be the White Knight from Through the Looking Glass
Liz Mann - Aug 28, 2005 1:53 pm (#1620 of 1957)
That's okay, Finn.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 28, 2005 6:18 pm (#1621 of 1957)
Edited Aug 28, 2005 7:21 pm
Ydnam96 I agree. Not only are three minds are better than one three is a very magical number. I think that is why DD encouraged Harry to confide in Ron and Hermione. JKR has mentioned how loyal Ron is. I am looking forward to how he will contribute now that he is growing up.
Liz can you post your website? LPO
Herm oh ninny - Aug 29, 2005 9:48 am (#1622 of 1957)
Edited Aug 29, 2005 10:49 am
<--Holding hands over my ears and chanting "Ron will not die, Ron will not die, Ron will not die.....
Jennifer Anderson - Aug 29, 2005 11:48 am (#1623 of 1957)
I don't think Ron will die unless it very late in this last book.
Liz Mann - Aug 29, 2005 12:20 pm (#1624 of 1957)
LPO - sure.
Jennifer - you're probably right, there.
Herm oh ninny - hope you're right.
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Aug 29, 2005 2:44 pm (#1625 of 1957)
Ydnam96, I completely agree. I had a random half-theory supporting that the trio must stay together, because they are each one part of a whole in a philosophical sense. I believe I posted it somewhere a long time ago, but I have no idea where.
Ydnam96 - Aug 29, 2005 8:35 pm (#1626 of 1957)
Yah, I must say the idea isn't my own, I've picked it up after reading through this forum and mugglenet and the COS forums for so long. I'm sure it was someone else's idea first. But now it just makes sense to me.
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 30, 2005 5:52 am (#1627 of 1957)
At the end of HBP Ron says he plans to have a word with Fred and George about who they sell their merchandise to. I think confronting Fred and George will be a very important step in maturing for Ron. They have teased their little brother mercilessly over the years, and done a few disturbingly cruel things to him, like try to trick him into taking an Unbreakable Vow when he was little. I think Ron will gain a lot of confidence if he can stand up to them, and give them a deserved telling off. But it's not going to be an easy thing to do. There's two of them to Ron's one, and they are used to doing whatever pleases them, and probably won't take Ron's criticism seriously. I hope Ron doesn't back down though.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Aug 30, 2005 8:08 am (#1628 of 1957)
I agree Mrs. Brisbee! I think for Ron, that will be a turning point. I hope the twins at least hear him out and realize that he's right!
As for Ron's possible death in book 7, I'm following Herm oh ninny's lead...
Herm oh ninny - Aug 30, 2005 8:09 am (#1629 of 1957)
Edited Aug 30, 2005 9:10 am
All together now "Ron will not die, Ron will not die, Ron will not die....."
LOL
Liz Mann - Aug 30, 2005 9:19 am (#1630 of 1957)
I think Fred and George would listen when they find out what their merchandice were used for.
Star Crossed - Aug 30, 2005 3:13 pm (#1631 of 1957)
Can they actually stop who they sell who their merchandise to? Isn't that illegal?
timrew - Aug 30, 2005 4:20 pm (#1632 of 1957)
Star Crossed:- Can they actually stop who they sell who their merchandise to? Isn't that illegal?
In this country it would be, Star Crossed. The Smart-ass lawyers would say it was violating their client's Human Rights!
Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 30, 2005 6:59 pm (#1633 of 1957)
I think Fred and George will be appalled at how their merchandise was used. They may not accept Ron's telling off but I bet they will be careful as to who buys what in their shop. Hopefully the UK lawyers won't have any jurisdiction in Diagon ally! LPO
Celeste Tseng - Aug 30, 2005 7:47 pm (#1634 of 1957)
How did Ron get that funny nickname as Won-Won?
Herm oh ninny - Aug 30, 2005 8:51 pm (#1635 of 1957)
It was one of Lavander's more brilliant ideas, and that is saying something...
Ydnam96 - Aug 30, 2005 9:23 pm (#1636 of 1957)
Hmmm...In the US a store can put up a sign that says "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" and that pretty much keeps them safe legally if they don't want to sell something or give someone service.
In a magical world. I would imagine that the boys could cook up some spell that would just make the verboten items invisible to certain people.
Wisey - Aug 31, 2005 2:00 am (#1637 of 1957)
If Ron's character doesn't do some serious maturing between Bk6 and Bk7, I think we can all kiss his character goodbye. Someone that stupid shouldn't survive a wizard war, no matter how good his friends are. Sorry Herm Oh Ninny.
Romulus - Aug 31, 2005 2:51 am (#1638 of 1957)
# Boring UK contract law alert*
Anyone in a shop (in England and Wales at least) can refuse to sell anything to anyone. The goods on the shelf, even if marked with a price, are not deemed to be offered; they are an invitation to people to make an offer at that price. When you take the goods to the till, you are making an offer, which can be refused for any reason. Obviously it would be bad commercial practice to refuse to sell your stuff, but it isn't illegal. So it would be quite ok for F and G to sell their goods to who they like; however, in a world of double agents and polyjuice potions even working out who to trust is difficult!
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 31, 2005 4:34 am (#1639 of 1957)
If Ron's character doesn't do some serious maturing between Bk6 and Bk7, I think we can all kiss his character goodbye. Someone that stupid shouldn't survive a wizard war, no matter how good his friends are. --Wisey
Were you thinking of anything particularly stupid that Ron did, or just in general? I'm not sure I know what you mean. He can be as clueless as the next teenage boy, but most teenage boys mature into perfectly normal folks. Harry, Hermione, and Ginny all have their faults and blind spots too. Why do you think Ron is more hopeless than the others?
Eponine - Aug 31, 2005 5:09 am (#1640 of 1957)
I think Ron has already done some maturing. Yes, he still has more to do, but he's growing up just like the others are.
And stupid? Do you mean grades? Because if I recall correctly, he and Harry got the same amount of O.W.L's. Ron might be a bit clueless when it comes to girls, but he is by no means stupid.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Aug 31, 2005 7:20 am (#1641 of 1957)
I don't think Ron is stupid as much as he's inmature. But, what teenager isn't? I mean, compared to Harry he may seem more childish, but then, Harry's been through things and seen things no child should have to. I don't think Ron is doomed. I think he'll mature a lot in book 7, just as he matured a lot in book 6.
haymoni- Aug 31, 2005 7:59 am (#1642 of 1957)
Ron is normal.
Wisey - Aug 31, 2005 5:49 pm (#1643 of 1957)
I definitely don't mean grades when I said Ron is stupid, it's just that Ron's character seems to miss a lot of things going on around him. I guess I'd call it "street smarts" - when you're able to decifer information going on around you, and usually avoid problems. Not just ignore things until they hit you in the face.
PS - Sorry I'm in the wrong time zone to post in at a respectable time.
Finn BV - Aug 31, 2005 5:52 pm (#1644 of 1957)
Edited Aug 31, 2005 6:54 pm
Wisey, in The Leaky Cauldron/MuggleNet Interview with JKR, JK notes that Ron has grown up:
But Ron — I had a lot of fun with that in this book. I really enjoyed writing the Ron/Lavender business, and the reason that was enjoyable was Ron up to this point has been quite immature compared to the other two and he kind of needed to make himself worthy of Hermione. Now, that didn't mean necessarily physical experience but he had to grow up emotionally and now he's taken a big step up. (bold mine)
I don't think Ron is stupid, just a little bit… slower than the rest of the trio. He's not the brightest of the three but that doesn't mean that he's got to die because he's stupid! As Eponine said, he is a little clueless at girls but I'd hardly think we're grading dating and not academics or smarts or instincts.
Why do you feel this way about him?
Edit: Cross-posted with Wisey. I understand now what you mean, but I'd still disagree he doesn't have to die because of this. And don't worry about the time. Forum time is in Pacific time, which is the west coast of the US. Any time is respectable.
Soul Search - Sep 1, 2005 3:08 pm (#1645 of 1957)
I think, generally, Ron is being sold short.
Keep in mind that he regularly beats Hermione at chess (for six years now?) and, in essense, beat McGonagall at chess in SS/PS, at 12 years old.
Now, I will have to conceed that Ron is not exactly academic, but then neither is Harry. Hermione supplies that ingredient to the mix.
What makes me think we will see Ron as an essential character in book 7 are those startling insights he comes up with. An example in HBP, "After the Burial," page 471 US Ed. "Lucky," said Ron suddenly. Harry, that's it -- get lucky."
I have it in mind that Ron does this once or twice in each book. (But would probably have to re-read to find them.) It is just what makes an above average chess player, especially in the end game: intuitive leaps that turn out to be right.
Harry is going to need intuitive leaps from Ron in the end game.
Ana Cis - Sep 1, 2005 4:39 pm (#1646 of 1957)
Edited by Sep 1, 2005 5:45 pm
I see Ron as someone who lacks confidence because everyone in his familyy is very smart, so he's easily discouraged. Even when he's doing his homework, he gives up easily just because he doesn't feel he's smart enough. So he comes across as being dummer than he actually is. The mirror of Erised truly showed the problem on his lack of self-assurance. He's also a bit insensitive; Harry didn't disagree w/Luna's observation about it. However, the whole tragedy w/DD's death has begun make him to become more reflective and aware about what's going on with the people and the world around him.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 1, 2005 7:05 pm (#1647 of 1957)
I think Ron's struggle to break it off with Lav-Lav shows he is not as insensitive as he was. Pretending to be asleep is much better saying rude things to someone. It never used to bother him to say things that hurt people (SS/PS when he made fun of Hermione, trying to get a date in GoF). Ron has shown some flashes of inspiration. I think there is hope for him. LPO
Wisey - Sep 2, 2005 2:31 pm (#1648 of 1957)
I agree whole heartedly that Ron's character of the trio has the lowest self esteem, which throughtout the books has been his underlying problem, but he has also had a jealous streak. He can't reach his full potential if he keeps his "why me" attitude.
On the point of Ron maturing in Bk6, I must of missed that. Ron only started going out with Lav-Lav because Ginny was having a go about him not having snogged anyone. As for breaking up, he did it the cowardly way which I must confess for his first girl wasn't too cruel.
I must also concede I have been a little hard with my stand on Ron. I don't want any of the major characters to die but knowing JKR they will and think it will be Ron, I sincerely hope I will be wrong.
Liz Mann - Sep 5, 2005 8:32 am (#1649 of 1957)
Edited Sep 5, 2005 9:35 am
Ron started out as immature as he was before in book six (as shown by his going out with Lav-Lav, like you said, Wisey) but the relationship with her made him realise that a relationship isn't just about the physical stuff, it's about the emotional stuff too (something that was lacking with Lavender). Now that he knows that he should be more sensitive for feelings and emotions because he now knows their importance and understands them better. That was Ron's maturing point.
Ana Cis - you're right, Ron does lack self-confidence. As you said, even with his homework he gives up too quickly, almost as though he feels stupid if he doesn't zoom through it (like Hermione), which gets him frustrated, which then makes him perform poorly in his work.
Czarina II - Sep 5, 2005 10:53 pm (#1650 of 1957)
Ron broke up with Lavender 'the cowardly way'? How so? I thought they talked about it. He told her he wanted to break it off, and it seems that Lavender was reluctant about it (and certainly unhappy), but she agreed. Then they did the perfectly normal thing of not looking at each other and avoiding each other, which is pretty hard to do in a small boarding school. It didn't seem cowardly at all. Sure, when Ron was sick he avoided it, but then, he was sick. If he had broken it off then, Lavender would probably have protested 'But you're sick! When you're feeling better, you'll like me again! You're just not yourself!' Thereby, Lavender would be consciously deluding herself, rather than simply being in the dark about Ron's feelings; Ron cared more about her feelings than to do that. We don't know what Ron said to her afterwards, but it's clear that they did talk.
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Wisey - Sep 6, 2005 12:31 am (#1651 of 1957)
Actually, I thought Lav Lav broke it off when he saw Hermione & Ron leaving the boys dormitory (with Harry under the invisibility cloak) so she assumed they were together again, like always.
charlie simmons - Sep 6, 2005 4:12 am (#1652 of 1957)
Way back in book one, with Ron being the chess guy, I thought that perhaps JKR was dividing up the three components of being a good witch or wizard amongst the trio. The components being: intelligence (Hermione) strategy (Wisdom? using the old AD&D stats)being Ron, and strength of will being Harry. Since then Harry (throwing off the Imperious curse, forcing Voldemort's wand to regurgitate its spells) and Hermione (knowing everything) have continued to show those aspects, but Ron seems to have shrunk in comparision. I thought she should have made Ron Quiddich captain, as his knowledge of strategy would have made him a more appropriate choice. (You could still have done the whole self-confidence, Hermione helping him out bit, as Ron could have told Harry that if whatever his name (McGinty?) was a better keeper than Ron, that Ron would have to resign for the good of the team, even if he was captain.
I think JKR has been having trouble separating Ron and Harry, and giving Ron strenghts that the others don't. Hermione, and her knowledge is an easy separation, but Ron and Harry are fairly similar, and as JKR grows Harry, Ron seems to shrink a little.
On the other hand, I'm a red-head myself, with some personality traits similar to Ron, so maybe I just want a chance to save the day!
Liz Mann - Sep 6, 2005 4:17 pm (#1653 of 1957)
Perhaps she has skillfully slipped in some traits of Ron's that we don't yet know are important. For example his good guesswork.
Stephanie M. - Sep 6, 2005 5:01 pm (#1654 of 1957)
Charlie Simmons, you have red hair and your name is Charlie... are you secretly Charlie Weasley?
I definatly think JKR has to develop Ron a little bit more, and I do think that Ron has a talent for making guesses... and chess but chess hasn't been as big a plot line as it used to be.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 6, 2005 7:10 pm (#1655 of 1957)
I think Ron achieved some major growth at the end of HBP. He was able to comfort Hermione and stand by Harry. Because of his confidence problems dating Hermione would be rather intimidating. He has finally got over that. He didn't seem as insensitive as he has in the past. LPO
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 7, 2005 7:40 am (#1656 of 1957)
I think Ron has definately matured through HBP. I think Ron's most important trait is his loyalty. I posted on the Hermione thread that I think the trio together represent the four qualities that the Hogwarts founders valued most. Harry represents Bravery and Ambition (Gryffndor & Slytherin), Ron represents Loyalty and to a lesser extend Bravery (Hufflpuff and Gryffndor) and Hermione represents Intellegence and to a lesser extend Bravery (Ravenclaw and Gryffndor).
I think Ron's loyalty has shown through in every book so far. A friend of mine argued with me that Ron wasn't loyal to Harry in GoF when he stopped speaking to him, but I disagree. While it's true Ron did stop speaking to Harry, we never once saw him with a "Support Cedric Diggory" badge or saying anything about not wanting Harry to win or anything like that. He was mad at Harry, but that doesn't mean his loyalty to Harry ever changed. I maintain that you can be mad at someone and still be loyal to them at the same time, and that that is exactly what happened with Ron in GoF.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that I think JKR seerated Harry and Ron's characters enough. I think that while Harry is a loyal friend, this characteristic is even more prevelant in Ron. I think that Ron would give anything to protect or defend his friends. I think Harry would too, but the nature of their friendship (Harry being the "Chosen One" and all that) puts Ron in a position to be as loyal as anyone could be. Just in being Harry's best friend he's risking everything, because trouble seems to follow Harry more then anyone else, and this has never deterred Ron in the slightest. He's stuck by Harry through and through.
JM2K, feel free to tell me your take on it!!
-Jenn
Soul Search - Sep 7, 2005 9:37 am (#1657 of 1957)
We have only seen its use a couple of times, but Ron knows more of the wizarding world than either Harry or Hermione. Their six years in the limited Hogwarts environment hasn't taught them a lot about the real wizarding world.
Searching for horcruxes could very well take the trio outside Hogwarts, where Ron's knowledge will be useful.
Liz Mann - Sep 7, 2005 12:45 pm (#1658 of 1957)
Edited Sep 7, 2005 1:46 pm
I agree that Ron's not speaking to Harry in GoF did not mean that he wasn't loyal to him, simply because it didn't mean he didn't care about Harry. So long as he cares about him, he'll be loyal, whether he's mad at him or not. After all, the moment when he fully realised that Harry was in great danger by being in this tournament he came running back to him and apologuised. And Harry, also being a loyal friend, didn't need to hear Ron say sorry.
I think that fight had to be in there to make their friendship realistic. All friends fall out, often over stupid things, especially when their personalities and situations in life clash. Doesn't mean they're not friends, though.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 7, 2005 7:23 pm (#1659 of 1957)
Soul Search I agree, Ron's knowledge of the wizarding world is very helpful. He is very good at helping Harry fill in the holes so Harry does not look like a fool. I don't think he sees how jealous Harry is of his family. He resents his family. Harry covets it. Harry likes getting a jumper for Christmas.
When Ron and Harry fight they learn a lot about each other. They also learn to appreciate each other more. It is more realistic. LPO
Paulus Maximus - Sep 8, 2005 8:11 am (#1660 of 1957)
Edited Sep 8, 2005 9:12 am
"That which does not kill you, makes you stronger."
Holds true for both people and friendships.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 8, 2005 8:40 am (#1661 of 1957)
LPO, I totally agree that Ron doesn't realize how much Harry envies his family. Ron spends a lot of his time being jealous of Harry's fame and doesn't even realize how much Ron and his family mean to Harry. I hope that in book 7 Ron starts to realize this and starts to see that, even though he may envy Harry's fame, fame isn't everything, and in some ways, Ron is so much better off then Harry.
-Jenn
Liz Mann - Sep 9, 2005 6:46 am (#1662 of 1957)
I think he already realised that in book four. Remember how Ron was staring at Harry in the hospital wing while Harry was fighting back tears? Harry was wishing he'd look away. I think Ron was staring because it had suddenly hit him that Harry doesn't have such a great life after all.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 9, 2005 9:15 am (#1663 of 1957)
Nice catch Liz. I never really gave much thought to Ron's staring in GoF. But you're probably right! Poor Harry! And poor Ron!
-Jenn
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 10, 2005 7:27 am (#1664 of 1957)
In SS on Christmas Harry is amazed he received presents. Ron's response is "What did you expect, turnips?" (SS USA Hardbound 200). That always breaks my heart. Harry got a sweater because Ron told his mother that Harry did not expect any presents. Liz good catch with GoF. Ron does have his sensitive moments. We always want what we don't have! Harry a family and Ron money. Ron doesn't fully realizes that Harry knows what it is like to be poor. It is important for Harry to share his good fortune with Ron any way he can. Ron has honor because he does not take advantage of it. LPO
Paulus Maximus - Sep 11, 2005 8:48 am (#1665 of 1957)
Edited Sep 11, 2005 9:49 am
Ron doesn't fully realizes that Harry knows what it is like to be poor.
Yes, he does.
Harry told him all about it on their first train ride to Hogwarts.
Unless Ron forgot in the years since then... I guess I shouldn't rule out that possibility, since Harry tends to forget important stuff too...
Liz Mann - Sep 11, 2005 12:46 pm (#1666 of 1957)
I think he could well have forgotten it because there has been much more to remind him of Harry's current wealth since then than his past poverty.
Steve Newton - Sep 11, 2005 2:35 pm (#1667 of 1957)
I'm not sure that Ron is particularly living in poverty any more. On the Express he buys stuff from the trolley without thinking. In the first book he had brought his own sandwiches. I think that having most of their children gone and Arthur's promotion has had a positive affect on family finances.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 11, 2005 2:57 pm (#1668 of 1957)
I agree Steve. The only children the Weasley's are still supporting are Ron and Ginny after all. Now that Fred & George are doing so well with the joke shop and Percy has estranged himself from the family, there are only 2 kids to support. Plus, I'd be willing to bet Fred & George would be more then willing to help out if things were ever tight for the family.
-Jenn
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 11, 2005 6:42 pm (#1669 of 1957)
Things are looking better for the Weasley's. I don't recall Ron saying much about being poor in HBP. It wasn't as much an issue. I did think it was funny that Fred and George offered Harry free stuff and Ron had to pay for it. LPO
Steve Newton - Sep 20, 2005 9:07 am (#1670 of 1957)
I was talking about the books with my son a couple of weeks ago. Ron's confidence came up. I pointed out that when the twins left Ron's confidence improved. He countered that it was in front of Harry that Ron's confidence suffered. He pointed out that Ron does best when Harry is not around, at quidditch anyway, or when he thinks that the lucky potion will help him.
Paulus Maximus - Sep 20, 2005 9:32 am (#1671 of 1957)
Ron did badly enough on Valentine's Day, I think. And neither Harry nor the twins were around.
Liz Mann - Sep 20, 2005 1:40 pm (#1672 of 1957)
I don't think that Ron's confidence is worse when Harry is around at all. In fact, I think he has more confidence when it is just him and Harry. Remember when Ron first got on the team, before the first team practice he and Harry went out together so that Ron could 'get his eye in'. He performed okay then. It was only when the rest of the team showed up and the Slytherins were jeering in the stands that he started messing up.
The giant squid - Sep 21, 2005 12:32 am (#1673 of 1957)
Ron's just like a lot of people--he's perfectly fine at what he's doing, until someone else is watching. Whenever it's a matter of importance Ron gets flustered & starts screwing up. Everybody knows (or is) someone like that, which is why it's so easy to get invested in the character.
--Mike
Snuffles - Sep 21, 2005 1:08 am (#1674 of 1957)
I agree Mike. It's like when you are walking down the street, you feel ok until you think someone is watching you, then you feel like your arms must look funny swinging by your side or that you are walking peculiar! (Or is that just me!! )
Liz Mann - Sep 21, 2005 3:49 am (#1675 of 1957)
No, it's not just you. Everyone gets self-concious when they're in company. There might be a particular shirt or jacket that you like but when you meet someone you know while wearing it you suddenly think how stupid it looks.
Madam Pince - Sep 21, 2005 11:17 am (#1676 of 1957)
No, it's not just you, Snuffles. Your arms really DO look funny swinging by your side.
Tee-hee! Not really, of course! I just couldn't resist! Anybody who's the mama of such an adorable little thing as Olivia couldn't possibly have funny-looking arms....
Snuffles - Sep 21, 2005 11:40 pm (#1677 of 1957)
Thank you Madam Pince! **Walks off, dragging arms on the floor**
Regan of Gong - Oct 9, 2005 8:35 pm (#1678 of 1957)
Edited Oct 9, 2005 9:36 pm
He he he, just like when you can't repeat something amazing you did for the person you want to show it to.
"Mum, mum, watch this- no hands..."
Mediwitch - Nov 17, 2005 3:47 pm (#1679 of 1957)
I definitely agree that Ron's self-confidence is a slowly-resolving issue, but he manages to rise above it during crisis situations. He is clearly nervous about embarking on some of their "adventures", but his Gryffindor bravery wins out and he doesn't seem to worry about his ability to perform then.
Ydnam96 - Nov 21, 2005 8:22 am (#1680 of 1957)
Mediwitch, I agree Ron is getting more self confidence. Although, I don't think he ever was at a loss for bravery in immediate situations. It's just in situations that he has to think about for a long while before hand that I see him being not so brave in. And really, in that I only see it in Quittich.
Are there other parts where he is squeamish about doing something?
frogface - Nov 21, 2005 9:47 am (#1681 of 1957)
Only with Spiders No I think Ron's pretty brave. He sacrificed himself in the chess game so Harry could go on. He also went into the forbidden forest with Harry and met aragog, and faced his biggest fear. And he went with Harry into the chamber of secrets (I know he couldn't go all the way but that wasn't his fault). And he went with Harry and the others to the ministry, AND he and Hermione are very firm at the end of HBP about helping Harry even though he is probably aware that what they're about to do is extremely dangerous. I know Ron hasn't been through as much as Harry, but i'm sure he's been through more than the average Hogwarts student has.
RoseMorninStar - Nov 21, 2005 10:03 am (#1682 of 1957)
Ron also wigged out pretty bad when he was caught in the Dragon's Snare in SS/PS, but he redeemed himself very well in the chess game.
Jennifer Anderson - Nov 21, 2005 10:30 am (#1683 of 1957)
But in book at the devil's snare Harry wasn't behaving much different.
haymoni - Nov 21, 2005 1:24 pm (#1684 of 1957)
And Hermione was asking for wood.
Ron's willing to stand next to Harry.
That in and of itself should be proof of his bravery.
Voldy could miss and...no more Ron!
Ydnam96 - Nov 22, 2005 10:23 pm (#1685 of 1957)
So, the hat did a good job placing Ron then
Liz Mann - Nov 24, 2005 8:33 am (#1686 of 1957)
Of course it did. Ron is just as brave as Harry and has never had one single moment to suggest otherwise. The spiders don't count because he has an actual phobia of them. Phobias are not weaknesses, they are mental conditions that you can be treated for, same as schitzophrenia and clinical depression. You can have a phobia for absolutely anything, things that aren't even scary... like grass. (Seriously.)
Ron did not freak out in the devil's snare in the book. Hermione did. And his freaking out in the film was just too funny for me to care much () and countered by his sarcastic, "Kill us faster? Oh now I can relax!"
Weeny Owl - Nov 26, 2005 2:56 pm (#1687 of 1957)
As far as I'm concerned, Ron demonstrated his bravery in PoA, even if the movie gave his line to Hermione.
Here he is... thirteen/fourteen years old, facing someone who is a known murderer (yes, Sirius is innocent, but at the time no one knew it), and even though he has a broken leg, he stands up and faces Sirius Black and tells him that if he plans on killing Harry he'll have to kill them all. Not only does he do this probably thinking they're all dead, but he does it even though he's in a lot of pain from his broken leg.
Ron is just as brave as anyone.
frogface - Nov 27, 2005 3:15 pm (#1688 of 1957)
I agree Weeny Owl. In fact at this very moment I'm writing an editorial about Ron which I plan to send to mugglenet.com. Someone tried to suggest through an essay that they believe Ron will turn out to be an abusive partner, and I found the idea so laughable I've been writing my own editorial to contest the idea and to defend Ron. I actually need some help with it. I'm searching for a quote by Hermione when she says something to Harry along the lines of "I think Ron will do better at Quidditch now that Fred and George aren't around. They never gave him much confidence". I'm pretty sure its somewhere in OotP but I can't find it so maybe its in HBP. If anyone knows where abouts it is I'd be really grateful!
Steve Newton - Nov 27, 2005 4:19 pm (#1689 of 1957)
I just listened to the line in OOTP. Its in the chapter where they meet Grawp. Or, maybe, the one before that.
Liz Mann - Nov 27, 2005 5:20 pm (#1690 of 1957)
Good luck with the editoraial. When it's up on Mugglenet post us a link to it.
frogface - Nov 28, 2005 1:33 am (#1691 of 1957)
Ah thanks guys I knew the lexicon wouldn't let me down never does!
frogface - Nov 28, 2005 9:26 am (#1692 of 1957)
Hey guys, me again. I've finished my first draft of the editorial and I'm eager for some second opinions on it. If you're interested let me know and I'll email it to you or something! Remember, its all in the interest of defending Ron!
Weeny Owl - Nov 28, 2005 9:48 am (#1693 of 1957)
Sure, frogface, send it to me. My e-mail address is under my profile.
Ydnam96 - Nov 28, 2005 6:56 pm (#1694 of 1957)
Someone actually wrote an essay saying that Ron would be an abusive boyfriend? Where is that essay? I would like to read that and figure out where on earth they got that idea.
I do agree that sometimes Ron can be immature when he is upset (I'm thinking of his treatment of Hermione after Crokshanks "ate" Scabbers. But he didn't hit her, he ignored her. As I remember Hermione is the only person so far to actually hit someone isn't she?)
frogface - Nov 29, 2005 1:16 am (#1695 of 1957)
Its on mugglenet.com in the shipping editorial section. Its a very unfair editorial that mentions Ron punching Delmelza, leaving out that it was an accident, and punches Harry, ignoring the fact that he was under the influence of love potion at the time!
Liz Mann - Nov 29, 2005 4:17 am (#1696 of 1957)
Actually, Ydnam, Ron has hit Malfoy, as has Harry.
Delmelza? I really need to read the sixth book again, I can't even remember anyone by that name. I've only read the book once. I'm kind of bogged down by reading for class at the moment, and other things.
Robert Dierken - Nov 29, 2005 3:51 pm (#1697 of 1957)
Harry and George both hit Draco after Quidditch in OoP.
Neville hit Draco, Crabbe and Goyle in PS/SS.
Demelza is on the Gryffindor Quidditch team in HBP.
Ydnam96 - Nov 29, 2005 6:06 pm (#1698 of 1957)
Ah, well then they are all even. Under those qualifications Hermione could be abusive. She has been known to slam her books around and stuff. We should beware of her!
I've forgotton when Ron hit Malfoy...when did that happen?
Jennifer Anderson - Nov 29, 2005 6:54 pm (#1699 of 1957)
Ron hit Malfoy in the first book at the quidditch match against Hufflepuff.
Weeny Owl - Nov 29, 2005 10:52 pm (#1700 of 1957)
I'd say Hermione is more prone to violence than Ron.
She slapped Draco and sent those birds after Ron. Who knows... maybe Ron is the one who should be worried.
Actually, I thought Lav Lav broke it off when he saw Hermione & Ron leaving the boys dormitory (with Harry under the invisibility cloak) so she assumed they were together again, like always.
charlie simmons - Sep 6, 2005 4:12 am (#1652 of 1957)
Way back in book one, with Ron being the chess guy, I thought that perhaps JKR was dividing up the three components of being a good witch or wizard amongst the trio. The components being: intelligence (Hermione) strategy (Wisdom? using the old AD&D stats)being Ron, and strength of will being Harry. Since then Harry (throwing off the Imperious curse, forcing Voldemort's wand to regurgitate its spells) and Hermione (knowing everything
) have continued to show those aspects, but Ron seems to have shrunk in comparision. I thought she should have made Ron Quiddich captain, as his knowledge of strategy would have made him a more appropriate choice. (You could still have done the whole self-confidence, Hermione helping him out bit, as Ron could have told Harry that if whatever his name (McGinty?) was a better keeper than Ron, that Ron would have to resign for the good of the team, even if he was captain.I think JKR has been having trouble separating Ron and Harry, and giving Ron strenghts that the others don't. Hermione, and her knowledge is an easy separation, but Ron and Harry are fairly similar, and as JKR grows Harry, Ron seems to shrink a little.
On the other hand, I'm a red-head myself, with some personality traits similar to Ron, so maybe I just want a chance to save the day!
Liz Mann - Sep 6, 2005 4:17 pm (#1653 of 1957)
Perhaps she has skillfully slipped in some traits of Ron's that we don't yet know are important. For example his good guesswork.
Stephanie M. - Sep 6, 2005 5:01 pm (#1654 of 1957)
Charlie Simmons, you have red hair and your name is Charlie... are you secretly Charlie Weasley?
I definatly think JKR has to develop Ron a little bit more, and I do think that Ron has a talent for making guesses... and chess but chess hasn't been as big a plot line as it used to be.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 6, 2005 7:10 pm (#1655 of 1957)
I think Ron achieved some major growth at the end of HBP. He was able to comfort Hermione and stand by Harry. Because of his confidence problems dating Hermione would be rather intimidating. He has finally got over that. He didn't seem as insensitive as he has in the past. LPO
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 7, 2005 7:40 am (#1656 of 1957)
I think Ron has definately matured through HBP. I think Ron's most important trait is his loyalty. I posted on the Hermione thread that I think the trio together represent the four qualities that the Hogwarts founders valued most. Harry represents Bravery and Ambition (Gryffndor & Slytherin), Ron represents Loyalty and to a lesser extend Bravery (Hufflpuff and Gryffndor) and Hermione represents Intellegence and to a lesser extend Bravery (Ravenclaw and Gryffndor).
I think Ron's loyalty has shown through in every book so far. A friend of mine argued with me that Ron wasn't loyal to Harry in GoF when he stopped speaking to him, but I disagree. While it's true Ron did stop speaking to Harry, we never once saw him with a "Support Cedric Diggory" badge or saying anything about not wanting Harry to win or anything like that. He was mad at Harry, but that doesn't mean his loyalty to Harry ever changed. I maintain that you can be mad at someone and still be loyal to them at the same time, and that that is exactly what happened with Ron in GoF.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that I think JKR seerated Harry and Ron's characters enough. I think that while Harry is a loyal friend, this characteristic is even more prevelant in Ron. I think that Ron would give anything to protect or defend his friends. I think Harry would too, but the nature of their friendship (Harry being the "Chosen One" and all that) puts Ron in a position to be as loyal as anyone could be. Just in being Harry's best friend he's risking everything, because trouble seems to follow Harry more then anyone else, and this has never deterred Ron in the slightest. He's stuck by Harry through and through.
JM2K, feel free to tell me your take on it!!
-Jenn
Soul Search - Sep 7, 2005 9:37 am (#1657 of 1957)
We have only seen its use a couple of times, but Ron knows more of the wizarding world than either Harry or Hermione. Their six years in the limited Hogwarts environment hasn't taught them a lot about the real wizarding world.
Searching for horcruxes could very well take the trio outside Hogwarts, where Ron's knowledge will be useful.
Liz Mann - Sep 7, 2005 12:45 pm (#1658 of 1957)
Edited Sep 7, 2005 1:46 pm
I agree that Ron's not speaking to Harry in GoF did not mean that he wasn't loyal to him, simply because it didn't mean he didn't care about Harry. So long as he cares about him, he'll be loyal, whether he's mad at him or not. After all, the moment when he fully realised that Harry was in great danger by being in this tournament he came running back to him and apologuised. And Harry, also being a loyal friend, didn't need to hear Ron say sorry.
I think that fight had to be in there to make their friendship realistic. All friends fall out, often over stupid things, especially when their personalities and situations in life clash. Doesn't mean they're not friends, though.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 7, 2005 7:23 pm (#1659 of 1957)
Soul Search I agree, Ron's knowledge of the wizarding world is very helpful. He is very good at helping Harry fill in the holes so Harry does not look like a fool. I don't think he sees how jealous Harry is of his family. He resents his family. Harry covets it. Harry likes getting a jumper for Christmas.
When Ron and Harry fight they learn a lot about each other. They also learn to appreciate each other more. It is more realistic. LPO
Paulus Maximus - Sep 8, 2005 8:11 am (#1660 of 1957)
Edited Sep 8, 2005 9:12 am
"That which does not kill you, makes you stronger."
Holds true for both people and friendships.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 8, 2005 8:40 am (#1661 of 1957)
LPO, I totally agree that Ron doesn't realize how much Harry envies his family. Ron spends a lot of his time being jealous of Harry's fame and doesn't even realize how much Ron and his family mean to Harry. I hope that in book 7 Ron starts to realize this and starts to see that, even though he may envy Harry's fame, fame isn't everything, and in some ways, Ron is so much better off then Harry.
-Jenn
Liz Mann - Sep 9, 2005 6:46 am (#1662 of 1957)
I think he already realised that in book four. Remember how Ron was staring at Harry in the hospital wing while Harry was fighting back tears? Harry was wishing he'd look away. I think Ron was staring because it had suddenly hit him that Harry doesn't have such a great life after all.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 9, 2005 9:15 am (#1663 of 1957)
Nice catch Liz. I never really gave much thought to Ron's staring in GoF. But you're probably right! Poor Harry! And poor Ron!
-Jenn
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 10, 2005 7:27 am (#1664 of 1957)
In SS on Christmas Harry is amazed he received presents. Ron's response is "What did you expect, turnips?" (SS USA Hardbound 200). That always breaks my heart. Harry got a sweater because Ron told his mother that Harry did not expect any presents. Liz good catch with GoF. Ron does have his sensitive moments. We always want what we don't have! Harry a family and Ron money. Ron doesn't fully realizes that Harry knows what it is like to be poor. It is important for Harry to share his good fortune with Ron any way he can. Ron has honor because he does not take advantage of it. LPO
Paulus Maximus - Sep 11, 2005 8:48 am (#1665 of 1957)
Edited Sep 11, 2005 9:49 am
Ron doesn't fully realizes that Harry knows what it is like to be poor.
Yes, he does.
Harry told him all about it on their first train ride to Hogwarts.
Unless Ron forgot in the years since then... I guess I shouldn't rule out that possibility, since Harry tends to forget important stuff too...
Liz Mann - Sep 11, 2005 12:46 pm (#1666 of 1957)
I think he could well have forgotten it because there has been much more to remind him of Harry's current wealth since then than his past poverty.
Steve Newton - Sep 11, 2005 2:35 pm (#1667 of 1957)
I'm not sure that Ron is particularly living in poverty any more. On the Express he buys stuff from the trolley without thinking. In the first book he had brought his own sandwiches. I think that having most of their children gone and Arthur's promotion has had a positive affect on family finances.
Soul Mate for Sirius - Sep 11, 2005 2:57 pm (#1668 of 1957)
I agree Steve. The only children the Weasley's are still supporting are Ron and Ginny after all. Now that Fred & George are doing so well with the joke shop and Percy has estranged himself from the family, there are only 2 kids to support. Plus, I'd be willing to bet Fred & George would be more then willing to help out if things were ever tight for the family.
-Jenn
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 11, 2005 6:42 pm (#1669 of 1957)
Things are looking better for the Weasley's. I don't recall Ron saying much about being poor in HBP. It wasn't as much an issue. I did think it was funny that Fred and George offered Harry free stuff and Ron had to pay for it. LPO
Steve Newton - Sep 20, 2005 9:07 am (#1670 of 1957)
I was talking about the books with my son a couple of weeks ago. Ron's confidence came up. I pointed out that when the twins left Ron's confidence improved. He countered that it was in front of Harry that Ron's confidence suffered. He pointed out that Ron does best when Harry is not around, at quidditch anyway, or when he thinks that the lucky potion will help him.
Paulus Maximus - Sep 20, 2005 9:32 am (#1671 of 1957)
Ron did badly enough on Valentine's Day, I think. And neither Harry nor the twins were around.
Liz Mann - Sep 20, 2005 1:40 pm (#1672 of 1957)
I don't think that Ron's confidence is worse when Harry is around at all. In fact, I think he has more confidence when it is just him and Harry. Remember when Ron first got on the team, before the first team practice he and Harry went out together so that Ron could 'get his eye in'. He performed okay then. It was only when the rest of the team showed up and the Slytherins were jeering in the stands that he started messing up.
The giant squid - Sep 21, 2005 12:32 am (#1673 of 1957)
Ron's just like a lot of people--he's perfectly fine at what he's doing, until someone else is watching. Whenever it's a matter of importance Ron gets flustered & starts screwing up. Everybody knows (or is) someone like that, which is why it's so easy to get invested in the character.
--Mike
Snuffles - Sep 21, 2005 1:08 am (#1674 of 1957)
I agree Mike. It's like when you are walking down the street, you feel ok until you think someone is watching you, then you feel like your arms must look funny swinging by your side or that you are walking peculiar! (Or is that just me!! )
Liz Mann - Sep 21, 2005 3:49 am (#1675 of 1957)
No, it's not just you. Everyone gets self-concious when they're in company. There might be a particular shirt or jacket that you like but when you meet someone you know while wearing it you suddenly think how stupid it looks.
Madam Pince - Sep 21, 2005 11:17 am (#1676 of 1957)
No, it's not just you, Snuffles. Your arms really DO look funny swinging by your side.
Tee-hee! Not really, of course! I just couldn't resist! Anybody who's the mama of such an adorable little thing as Olivia couldn't possibly have funny-looking arms....
Snuffles - Sep 21, 2005 11:40 pm (#1677 of 1957)
Thank you Madam Pince! **Walks off, dragging arms on the floor**
Regan of Gong - Oct 9, 2005 8:35 pm (#1678 of 1957)
Edited Oct 9, 2005 9:36 pm
He he he, just like when you can't repeat something amazing you did for the person you want to show it to.
"Mum, mum, watch this- no hands..."
Mediwitch - Nov 17, 2005 3:47 pm (#1679 of 1957)
I definitely agree that Ron's self-confidence is a slowly-resolving issue, but he manages to rise above it during crisis situations. He is clearly nervous about embarking on some of their "adventures", but his Gryffindor bravery wins out and he doesn't seem to worry about his ability to perform then.
Ydnam96 - Nov 21, 2005 8:22 am (#1680 of 1957)
Mediwitch, I agree Ron is getting more self confidence. Although, I don't think he ever was at a loss for bravery in immediate situations. It's just in situations that he has to think about for a long while before hand that I see him being not so brave in. And really, in that I only see it in Quittich.
Are there other parts where he is squeamish about doing something?
frogface - Nov 21, 2005 9:47 am (#1681 of 1957)
Only with Spiders No I think Ron's pretty brave. He sacrificed himself in the chess game so Harry could go on. He also went into the forbidden forest with Harry and met aragog, and faced his biggest fear. And he went with Harry into the chamber of secrets (I know he couldn't go all the way but that wasn't his fault). And he went with Harry and the others to the ministry, AND he and Hermione are very firm at the end of HBP about helping Harry even though he is probably aware that what they're about to do is extremely dangerous. I know Ron hasn't been through as much as Harry, but i'm sure he's been through more than the average Hogwarts student has.
RoseMorninStar - Nov 21, 2005 10:03 am (#1682 of 1957)
Ron also wigged out pretty bad when he was caught in the Dragon's Snare in SS/PS, but he redeemed himself very well in the chess game.
Jennifer Anderson - Nov 21, 2005 10:30 am (#1683 of 1957)
But in book at the devil's snare Harry wasn't behaving much different.
haymoni - Nov 21, 2005 1:24 pm (#1684 of 1957)
And Hermione was asking for wood.
Ron's willing to stand next to Harry.
That in and of itself should be proof of his bravery.
Voldy could miss and...no more Ron!
Ydnam96 - Nov 22, 2005 10:23 pm (#1685 of 1957)
So, the hat did a good job placing Ron then
Liz Mann - Nov 24, 2005 8:33 am (#1686 of 1957)
Of course it did. Ron is just as brave as Harry and has never had one single moment to suggest otherwise. The spiders don't count because he has an actual phobia of them. Phobias are not weaknesses, they are mental conditions that you can be treated for, same as schitzophrenia and clinical depression. You can have a phobia for absolutely anything, things that aren't even scary... like grass. (Seriously.)
Ron did not freak out in the devil's snare in the book. Hermione did. And his freaking out in the film was just too funny for me to care much () and countered by his sarcastic, "Kill us faster? Oh now I can relax!"
Weeny Owl - Nov 26, 2005 2:56 pm (#1687 of 1957)
As far as I'm concerned, Ron demonstrated his bravery in PoA, even if the movie gave his line to Hermione.
Here he is... thirteen/fourteen years old, facing someone who is a known murderer (yes, Sirius is innocent, but at the time no one knew it), and even though he has a broken leg, he stands up and faces Sirius Black and tells him that if he plans on killing Harry he'll have to kill them all. Not only does he do this probably thinking they're all dead, but he does it even though he's in a lot of pain from his broken leg.
Ron is just as brave as anyone.
frogface - Nov 27, 2005 3:15 pm (#1688 of 1957)
I agree Weeny Owl. In fact at this very moment I'm writing an editorial about Ron which I plan to send to mugglenet.com. Someone tried to suggest through an essay that they believe Ron will turn out to be an abusive partner, and I found the idea so laughable I've been writing my own editorial to contest the idea and to defend Ron. I actually need some help with it. I'm searching for a quote by Hermione when she says something to Harry along the lines of "I think Ron will do better at Quidditch now that Fred and George aren't around. They never gave him much confidence". I'm pretty sure its somewhere in OotP but I can't find it so maybe its in HBP. If anyone knows where abouts it is I'd be really grateful!
Steve Newton - Nov 27, 2005 4:19 pm (#1689 of 1957)
I just listened to the line in OOTP. Its in the chapter where they meet Grawp. Or, maybe, the one before that.
Liz Mann - Nov 27, 2005 5:20 pm (#1690 of 1957)
Good luck with the editoraial. When it's up on Mugglenet post us a link to it.
frogface - Nov 28, 2005 1:33 am (#1691 of 1957)
Ah thanks guys I knew the lexicon wouldn't let me down never does!
frogface - Nov 28, 2005 9:26 am (#1692 of 1957)
Hey guys, me again. I've finished my first draft of the editorial and I'm eager for some second opinions on it. If you're interested let me know and I'll email it to you or something! Remember, its all in the interest of defending Ron!
Weeny Owl - Nov 28, 2005 9:48 am (#1693 of 1957)
Sure, frogface, send it to me. My e-mail address is under my profile.
Ydnam96 - Nov 28, 2005 6:56 pm (#1694 of 1957)
Someone actually wrote an essay saying that Ron would be an abusive boyfriend? Where is that essay? I would like to read that and figure out where on earth they got that idea.
I do agree that sometimes Ron can be immature when he is upset (I'm thinking of his treatment of Hermione after Crokshanks "ate" Scabbers. But he didn't hit her, he ignored her. As I remember Hermione is the only person so far to actually hit someone isn't she?)
frogface - Nov 29, 2005 1:16 am (#1695 of 1957)
Its on mugglenet.com in the shipping editorial section. Its a very unfair editorial that mentions Ron punching Delmelza, leaving out that it was an accident, and punches Harry, ignoring the fact that he was under the influence of love potion at the time!
Liz Mann - Nov 29, 2005 4:17 am (#1696 of 1957)
Actually, Ydnam, Ron has hit Malfoy, as has Harry.
Delmelza? I really need to read the sixth book again, I can't even remember anyone by that name. I've only read the book once. I'm kind of bogged down by reading for class at the moment, and other things.
Robert Dierken - Nov 29, 2005 3:51 pm (#1697 of 1957)
Harry and George both hit Draco after Quidditch in OoP.
Neville hit Draco, Crabbe and Goyle in PS/SS.
Demelza is on the Gryffindor Quidditch team in HBP.
Ydnam96 - Nov 29, 2005 6:06 pm (#1698 of 1957)
Ah, well then they are all even. Under those qualifications Hermione could be abusive. She has been known to slam her books around and stuff. We should beware of her!
I've forgotton when Ron hit Malfoy...when did that happen?
Jennifer Anderson - Nov 29, 2005 6:54 pm (#1699 of 1957)
Ron hit Malfoy in the first book at the quidditch match against Hufflepuff.
Weeny Owl - Nov 29, 2005 10:52 pm (#1700 of 1957)
I'd say Hermione is more prone to violence than Ron.
She slapped Draco and sent those birds after Ron. Who knows... maybe Ron is the one who should be worried.
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frogface - Nov 30, 2005 5:31 am (#1701 of 1957)
Hey guys, I sent my editorial off the Mugglenet today. But I've also discovered that someone else has already written a reply! However my editorial differs in many ways to that one, so there is hope that it will be published! I did happen to mention that Ron is nothing compared to Hermione when she's in a bad mood!
"Such a lovely, sweet-tempered girl". Hehe, I love that quote.
Liz Mann - Nov 30, 2005 2:30 pm (#1702 of 1957)
I hope you also mentioned that he is brave, frogface.
Hee hee! Yes, you must never cross Hermione.
Weeny Owl - Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm (#1703 of 1957)
Honestly, how could anyone who would sent birds to attack someone ever be in danger of being abused? The whole thing is just silly. Ron has a temper, yes, and he does have his less-than-noble moments, but who doesn't?
The excerpts used in the essay were not good examples, for one, and for another, whoever wrote that edited some of the quotes.
That reminds me of a funny thing I saw in a MAD Magazine years and years ago... it was a movie ad, and it quoted people who had reviewed the movie. It had things such as, "this movie is ... marvelous ... inspired ... thrilling," but the real review was more like, "this movie is a marvelous example of what NOT to see, and you'll be much more inspired if you stay home and take a nap. The most thrilling part of it was the credits."
By eliminating some of what was quoted in the essay, it changed the meaning, and even if no one is ever quite sure of what exactly JKR means, the possibilities change fully with the complete passage as opposed to just a few wrong quotes.
Your rebuttal nails all the points quite well, frogface.
bella - Dec 3, 2005 9:28 pm (#1704 of 1957)
I don't come up with theories very often, but after catching up on the posts since the release of HBP, I thought of something that seems to fit on this thread. Someone mentioned previously that Ron's self sacrifice may be repeated in book 7. I don't know if Voldemort would be silly enough to make the same mistake twice, but it would be a good (and unfortunate) parallel if Ron did sacrifice himself for Harry.
Voldemort is dead set on getting Harry, and I'm sure that if he discovers Harry has been disposing of his horcruxes one by one it will make him even crankier. I can see Ron jumping in front of an AK aimed at Harry and sort of resetting the love sacrifice protection. Voldemort in his rage at being thwarted yet again in his attempt to kill Harry may just fling off another AK for good measure. That curse bounces off, killing Voldemort and voila- end book 7.
Weeny Owl - Dec 4, 2005 9:45 am (#1705 of 1957)
The thing about Ron sacrificing himself again is that if it works out the same way it did in the first book, he might be knocked out, but he wouldn't die.
I just don't seek JKR killing him, and I definitely don't see Harry killing Voldemort with an Avada Kedavra.
Liz Mann - Dec 4, 2005 10:50 am (#1706 of 1957)
I hope you're right, Weeny Owl, because I can definately see Ron getting sacrificed again in the same manner as in PS. I just hope he survives it.
The thing is, I think both Ron and Hermione are in very severe danger, and here's why: I have said before on this forum (not sure which thread but I've said it) that I think book seven will end up playing out in the same kind of way that book one did, with Harry, Ron and Hermione having to combine all their different skills in order to get to and destroy the Horcruxes. I think this because the obstacles on the way to the locket were the same kind of thing as those on the way to the stone - physical obstacles that needed two or more people to get through them. No one person would have been able to do either alone. Harry, Ron and Hermione are three very different people with very different skills and when you put those skills together they make an very strong team. The problem will come if Voldemort realises this. Wormtail might well tell him enough to make him realise. And if he does realise, what is he going to try and do? Split them up! He'll almost certainly try to kill Ron and Hermione before he tries for Harry again. Either that or he'll completely disregard them as not being of any importance and it'll be his downfall. Let's hope the second.
So Sirius - Dec 8, 2005 9:41 am (#1707 of 1957)
I find the parallels regarding Hermione and Ron and Harrys mom and dad interesting. They're almost opposites of each other. Lily and Ron with red hair, hermione and James with dark, uncontrollable hair. Knowing that they're going to end up together, I think JKR is going to let them live, live out the life Lily and James couldn't and it will be Harry that sacrifices himself for the love of them. Anyway, that's the way I see it playing out. I agree that they'll combine their strengths to finish off the Horcruxs though.
I mentioned this on the movie thread. When McGonagall is teaching dancing, she says this "Inside every boy A lordly lion prepares to prance." Right before she calls on Ron. Last movie he just happened to get the candy that made him roar like a lion and this film, there's a reference too. I think Ron is bound for something in the end, that will make him great, like his buddy Harry. I'm not saying he's the heir of Gryffindor, but I'm not saying he's not, either. lol So, I think he'll survive to live out something good.
Liz Mann - Dec 8, 2005 10:40 am (#1708 of 1957)
Yeah, but I see paralells between James and Lily and Harry and Ginny. I think that if Ginny is alive by the end of the book, Harry will have a reason not to be killed off. Unless Ginny's going to have her heart broken.
sstabeler - Dec 8, 2005 11:08 am (#1709 of 1957)
Edited by Dec 8, 2005 11:09 am
to be honest, I can't see Ron and Hermione being killed unless they are VERY unlucky. as to why, they are going to be near Harry pretty much all the time, as if they go to 4 privet drive with him, AND set out to find and destroy the horcruxes with him, it's almost a given that about the only time Hermione for one will be away from harry is when they sleep, and Ron probably never. (except when one of them needs the bathroom, but I don't thing Voldemort is that cruel) so, really, I can't see Voldemort pulling off an assasination of either Ron or Hermione, or both without Harry being able to interfere. I'm not saying that they both will participate in the final battle though, the tasks they had to get through in PS were how many? sprout, flitwick, mcgonagall, quirrel, snape and dumbledore all gave protection, we'll discount fluffy for now, that is ^ tasks, there are 6 horcruxes. now, let's look at what happened, for sprout and flitwick, they were together, and were until the end of the task, Ron sacrificing Himself in a non-deadly fashion toallow harry to win, maybe the 3rd horcrux means Ron will have to stop helping them, maybe he is knocked unconscious, or maybe simply has to go to St. Mungo's due to a significant injury, then next task, someone has already done for them (locket, assuming RAB had removed the part of Voldemort's soul from the locket, and that it is the un-openable locket) then, on the next task, hermione willingly stops and helps ron, maybe she is the only one who can cure him of his injury sustained in the 1st one they did together, the mc-gonagall paralell one. then, the last one is kiling Voldemort himseldf, if you count Fluffy as a paralell, maybe that is the diary one, as that was easy to defeat, (ignoring the fact harry nearly died doing it, as it could have been done by the sword) then harry defeats Voldemort, perhaps putting him into a coma, and then someone else, maybe mc. gonagaqll, maybe Ginny? manages to cure him, and then, what happens next is unimportant to the paralell, and assuming the trio survive.
Jennifer Anderson - Dec 8, 2005 2:47 pm (#1710 of 1957)
"(except when one of them needs the bathroom, but I don't thing Voldemort is that cruel)" I think Voldemort is cruel enough to attack or have someone attack one of them while they're in bathroom, infact one could count on that. I mean if Draco Malfoy is "cruel" enough to do that then Voldemort is and Voldemort plays dirty, yeah I don't the bathroom is a saintury for the any of the trio. I'd venture to say that going to the bathroom is going to be dangerous place to be for them.
" I can't see Voldemort pulling off an assasination of either Ron or Hermione, or both without Harry being able to interfere." On that account I think you're probably right, to a certain degree.
Liz Mann - Dec 9, 2005 12:56 pm (#1711 of 1957)
Since the trio will all be in the same place throughout most of the book, if Voldemort can get to Ron and Hermione, why doesn't he just go straight for Harry? The only way I can see Ron and Hermione getting killed (and this is entirely possible) is either if one of the obstacles guarding the Horcruxes kill them or they get in the way of Voldie killing Harry (but not neccessarily in a way that would give Harry protection - besides, Voldemort would be pretty stupid if he fell for that again!).
bella - Dec 9, 2005 10:07 pm (#1712 of 1957)
It would put LV in a very awkward position if Ron did inadvertently sacrifice himself reinstating the protection,though. Voldy would have no choice but to let one of the other DEs get the job done; something he has been very reluctant to do since the beginning.
Honour - Dec 9, 2005 10:22 pm (#1713 of 1957)
Hi there Bella, as JKR has told us (and I paraphrase) that one can not inadvertently sacrifice ones self to "reinstate the protection spell". The sacrifice is a concious choice of love, not an accident. Lily was given a choice by Voldermort to stand aside and live, or not. She chose to protect her child. I doubt Voldermort would make that mistake again ... :-)
bella - Dec 9, 2005 10:57 pm (#1714 of 1957)
Sorry, let me rephrase, I more meant it to be inadvertent on Voldemort's part. More of an aiming for Harry and Ron consciously jumping in front sort of thing. In which case Ron would have made the choice to save Harry and Voldemort would have accidently made Harry once again untouchable.
Honour - Dec 9, 2005 11:37 pm (#1715 of 1957)
Hi there Bella, I don't think that scenario would work either, the whole idea of Liy's sacrifice was that, Voldermort had given Lily the option of living, Lily chose to die for her son, thus making her sacrifice a shield of protection (if you will) for Harry against Voldermort. The difference of the sacrifice that you outlined with Ron is that Voldermort would not have offered Ron the choice. JKR made the same point about James, who died defending his family, she said that Jame's death was not of the same sacrifice as Lily's so therefore the "Protection" spell was not activated.
Liz Mann - Dec 10, 2005 11:30 am (#1716 of 1957)
I agree with Honour. Ron would have to stand in the way and have Voldemort say, "Stand aside" and Ron would have to refuse. And Voldemort definately would not make THAT mistake twice! Not unless he's really stupid anyway.
bella - Dec 10, 2005 6:03 pm (#1717 of 1957)
I actually also agree with you guys, I just thought it would be an interesting thing to happen. And yes he really would have to be quite stupid to do it twice.
Mrs. Sirius - Dec 15, 2005 6:44 am (#1718 of 1957)
bella said I thought of something that seems to fit on this thread. Someone mentioned previously that Ron's self sacrifice may be repeated in book 7. I don't know if Voldemort would be silly enough to make the same mistake twice, but it would be a good (and unfortunate) parallel if Ron did sacrifice himself for Harry. Voldemort is dead set on getting Harry, and I'm sure that if he discovers Harry has been disposing of his horcruxes one by one it will make him even crankier. I can see Ron jumping in front of an AK aimed at Harry and sort of resetting the love sacrifice protection. Voldemort in his rage at being thwarted yet again in his attempt to kill Harry may just fling off another AK for good measure. That curse bounces off, killing Voldemort and voila- end book 7.
bella, I agree with what you say with some differences. Instead of Ron making the sacrifice, I think it might be Ginny. Harry loves Ron but only like a brother. Since they are not related, I don't know if Ron's love would be the same as his mother sacrifice. If Ginny and Harry were together or "in love" then that would make Harry-Ron more like brothers.
In HP an the Book Seven, I see Ginny as a wild card. She is smart enough to know Harry does not have time for a relationship, however she is a passionate girl and knows what she wants. She also has an interest in this fight. I expect Ginny will be at the final battle. And I can see her taking the AK for Harry, whatever Harry does in reaction to seeing Ginny killed would certainly spur him on and be "motivational". In the real world anything "justifiable" is scary but to witness your friends and family (even substitute family) murdered is motivational.
In POA, at the Christmas dinner Trelawney predicts that the first getting up from the dinner table of 13, will be the first to die. Ron and Harry get up first, it is never made explicit which one was up first. Because of this and many other clues, I believe that it is Ron who will die. Somehow at that final battle, Ron and Ginny will be prominent. They will each make fatal sacrifices for Harry. I don't believe they will both die.
bella - Dec 15, 2005 9:35 am (#1719 of 1957)
I really like the end as the beginning idea. The names don't have to be the same. So what your saying Mrs.S, is that using Ginny as the sacrifice would instill a different sort of protection. Not the blood protection of his mother, but pure rage? I like it. It could still work with Ron though.
Liz Mann - Dec 15, 2005 9:56 am (#1720 of 1957)
I don't think she'll use the sacrifice thing twice. It'd be a bit too much, and like I said, Voldemort would never fall for it again. However blind he is to matters of love, he is not stupid.
Liz Mann - Dec 18, 2005 6:43 am (#1721 of 1957)
You know, I've been thinking... dunno if this has been mentioned before, or even if I've mentioned it before, but I thought I'd post it anyway...
Ron is what made Harry the way he is. Think about it. Harry and Voldemort have a lot of similarities. They both had a very similar start in life. Both orphans, both raised by Muggles in places that they hate, with other kids making fun of them, both extremely talented, both with bad tempers and neither above revenge or even cruelty. Harry could very easily have turned out the same way Voldemort has... except Ron sat in the same compartment as him on the train. If that hadn't happened and Harry hadn't made friends with him, he might never have found his capacity to love because he wouldn't have had anyone to love. And Harry's ability to love is the major difference between Harry and Voldemort (as Dumbledore said in HBP). And if he hadn't made friends with Ron, he would never have had the opportunity to love any of the others that he does. He wouldn't have made friends with Hermione if Ron hadn't insulted her and made her run off to the bathroom to cry. He might not have made friends with Ginny if he hadn't made friends with her brother first.
And besides, if Harry hadn't met Ron he might have accepted Draco's friendship when it was offered (the reason he didn't was because Draco insulted Ron and that made Harry angry). Which means Harry might have let the Sorting Hat put him in Slytherin since Malfoy had already been sorted there. And who knows how Harry would have turned out then.
But then I suppose really, George is responsible for all that. After all, if he hadn't offered to help Harry load his trunk onto the train, the twins wouldn't have discovered who he was, they wouldn't have told Ron and Ron wouldn't have gone into the compartment to see if it was true.
Again, let's just hope Voldemort doesn't realise this.
Ydnam96 - Dec 18, 2005 9:41 am (#1722 of 1957)
Liz, I think to an extent you are correct. Harry needed an "in" to the Wizardin World and Ron provided that. Harry also needed a family; and again Ron provided that.
I have to say though, I don't think that Harry would have ended up friends with Malfoy. Pretty much everyone hates him and Harry's not stupid. He would have figured it out. I mean, didn't he sort of start his dislike for Malfoy in Madame Milkins before term even started?
Liz Mann - Dec 18, 2005 11:07 am (#1723 of 1957)
Yes, that's true. It was because he reminded him of Dudley. Still, he might have.
Aqualu Nifey - Dec 18, 2005 4:51 pm (#1724 of 1957)
But Harry and Voldemort reacted very differently when being told that they're wizards. Ickle Voldykins was very quick to believe that he was a wizard, while it took Harry a while to believe it. Their trips to Diagon Alley were also very different, Voldy-poo didn't want any help or support from Dumbledore when Harry relied rather heavily on Hagrid.
Mrs. Sirius - Dec 18, 2005 10:21 pm (#1725 of 1957)
Also Harry's, nature from the start, is different. Not only did he and LV react differently when told they were wizards, but LV had a well earned reputation with terrorizing others. Without understanding why, Voldemort knew he had power over others, and used it before being told he was a wizard. Harry seemed completely baffled that things "happened".
While Harry didn't have friends before his entry into the wizarding world, no one feared him in fact Dudley and his gang terrorized him.
The Malfoy episode goes to show the natural tendency of his character before he has actual information of his world.
But I do agree that Ron and the Weasleys have been a vital part to the shaping of Harry.
ema fewett - Dec 29, 2005 9:53 am (#1726 of 1957)
After all Ron's been through, when do you guys think Ron will be able to say Voldemort's name? I mean, Ginny and Hermione have already started using the name.
cindysuewho45 - Dec 29, 2005 1:23 pm (#1727 of 1957)
I think when Ron is in a sirius war situation and no longer using the school boy mantality it will be easier for him to say LV's name. The movies play Ron up to be a little doofy, however, in the books Ron is a sirius and statigic thinker. Just think about the chess games he's played. Even though he was young with a school boys mantality, he managed to play the best played chess game Hogwarts has ever seen. Now he is more mature and he has always been very brave!
Liz Mann - Jan 3, 2006 7:48 am (#1728 of 1957)
You have to realise that it's harder for Ron to say the name than it is for Harry and Hermione. Neither of them were raised in the wizard world, after all, and so it wasn't drummed into their heads, "Don't say the name... don't say the name..." As for Ginny, she's just a fiesty little thing.
I think Ron will say the name for the first time by accident in the middle of a rant or something. Then he'll realise what he just said and be in total shock while Harry and Hermione congratulate him.
TomProffitt - Jan 8, 2006 8:59 am (#1729 of 1957)
"As for Ginny, she's just a fiesty little thing." --- Liz Mann
Ginny also has been through her baptism of fire in CoS. Ginny has become a very self-confident person while Ron has always allowed himself to run a distant third behind Hermione and Harry. He really isn't being particularly fair to himself, but when everything is said and done he is more of a sidekick than a partner.
Ydnam96 - Jan 8, 2006 9:21 pm (#1730 of 1957)
Tom, I wouldn't say that. I think that both Ron and Hermione play equal, but different, parts in Harry's life. Ron has skills that Harry doesn't, such as the strategic thinking needed in chess. He simply has a self-esteem issue (growing up the youngest boy with 5 older brothers is probably very hard).
He has proven himself as a loyal friend, brave in the face of danger (the spiders for instance), and a source of knowledge about the wizarding world Harry and Hermione both lack. I would not demote him from best friend to sidekick.
K Stahl - Jan 9, 2006 12:30 pm (#1731 of 1957)
Sidekick. Never! Harry and Ron have been best friends from the time they first met on the train. Ron may not be as capable as Harry except for chess, but then Harry is no great wiz either. They are not that far apart in ability with Hermione overshadowing them both. Each has displayed great loyalty to the other, in times both thick and thin. For examples of sidekicks, one need look no farther than Crab and Goyle. In fact, I believe that Miss Rowling has used the dark trio as backdrop to accentuate precisely that characteristic, loyalty, in our heroic trio. Remember that what Harry possesses that the dark lord knows not is his capacity to love. This is central to the theme of the stories. While it is fun to ruminate about post-pubescent romantic love, the concept love is much broader than that. It encompasses the full intensity range of mild preference – preference – liking – love – romantic love. Loyalty is found fairly high on that intensity scale.
Now, to the thought that Ron is a strategic thinker. I believe that we make a mistake when we infer that Ron is a strategic thinker because he is good at chess. Miss Rowling has shown him to be a good chess player. The common understanding is that chess is a game of strategy and that Ron is therefore a strategic thinker. This understanding of chess comes from outside the books. Such knowledge can be used to support the contention that a character is a strategic thinker. It alone is not enough to establish that as fact within the story. I may be mistaken, but I know of now other example where Ron has displayed a capacity for strategic thinking.
A more interesting fact that might foreshadow future events is the manner in which Ron won the match in the Philosopher's Stone. He won by sacrificing himself so that Harry and Hermione could go on.
frogface - Jan 9, 2006 2:38 pm (#1732 of 1957)
I think Ron's performance in Quidditch is a foreshaddow as well. As long as he believes in himself he'll be able to do alot more. Very much like Neville actually.
Aqualu Nifey - Jan 9, 2006 5:27 pm (#1733 of 1957)
What Ron really needs is a subject in school that he excels in that Harry and Hermione do not. Harry's brilliant at DADA and Hermione's brilliant at pretty much else. It would be good for them to come to him for help with something.
TomProffitt - Jan 10, 2006 8:51 am (#1734 of 1957)
Now, now, let's not get touchy.
To Harry, Ron is the best friend Harry could have. To Harry, Ron is his equal.
Realistically, that's about friendship. When it comes to magical proficiency, knowledge, determination and bravery, Ron doesn't compare favorably to Harry and Hermione. Compared to the rest of his class, I think Ron is a cut above.
Ron's a follower, not a leader, that's what makes him more of a sidekick than a partner from a literary point of view.
haymoni- Jan 10, 2006 8:59 am (#1735 of 1957)
I think Ron's handled his prefect duties fairly well.
Mrs. Sirius - Jan 10, 2006 9:40 pm (#1736 of 1957)
In OoTP Ron doesn't perform well on Quiddich initially. He is very unpredictable, until Fred and George leave. He improves as soon as they leave. Then when harry leave, (I know he wasn't aware of that event) then Ron really takes off and wins the game.
Ron has a huge confidence problem. He is overshadowed by absolutely everyone. All his older brothers have won all the honors and awards available. Ginny is the only girl. His best friend at school gets all the attention and notice just by walking into a room! Hermione is the smartest girl in their year, probably the school.
Ron is good enough to get the grades to get into the classes with Harry and Hermione, he is Prefect, he is able, smart enough to offer aid and support to the wonderkin Potter.
You don't get to be the best friend and top aid to the top achievers just by being mediocre. Ron has a confidence problem, all the people around him are super achievers.
Honour - Jan 11, 2006 1:31 am (#1737 of 1957)
I wonder if Dumbledore gave Ron his Prefect badge because he wanted to give Ron the opportunity to gain confidence? Besides being intimidated by his brothers, Ron is also in awe and sometimes a little jealous of Harry, being "Harry Potter", his monetary wealth...
Just sort of wondering, I think it was inferred that Remus was made Prefect so that he could keep his friends in line, I also think Dumbledore gave Remus the same confidence boost he gave to Ron because Remus would have been suffering from the "Werewolf -blues" ...er I mean his "furry little problelm"
ema fewett - Jan 12, 2006 10:14 am (#1738 of 1957)
Very intersesting theory Honour....
I dont think that Ron is a sidekick in anyway....they make him look like that in the movies...but in the books, abosolutely not!
Like everyone's saying, I think the only problem he has is not having confidence in him. He has accomplished a lot so far, and with gaining a bit of confidence, imagine the feat he'll be able to accomplish?! I'll be cheering "GO Ron!!"
Ydnam96 - Jan 14, 2006 9:43 am (#1739 of 1957)
Hear Hear Ema!
Melly - Jan 16, 2006 1:47 am (#1740 of 1957)
I also agree with ema, in the movies Ron is just Harry's sidekick who provides some comedy throughout the film but in the books he's a lot more than that.
ema fewett - Jan 16, 2006 7:00 am (#1741 of 1957)
Also, if you look at both the movie posters for PoA and GoF, Hermione is closer to Harry and she has a bigger close up than Ron. What I cant understand is why dont they make Ron and Hermione equal?!
Aqualu Nifey - Jan 16, 2006 1:33 pm (#1742 of 1957)
I don't agree with movie-Hermione at all. Blonde hair, I ask you! *takes deep breath* In any event, I find it best to just ignore the movies, in terms of anything related to the books. They're nice and cute, but aren't a truly accurate portrayal of certain major characters.
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 16, 2006 2:00 pm (#1743 of 1957)
MOVIE CONTAMINATION!!!!
Mickey
haymoni- Jan 16, 2006 7:44 pm (#1744 of 1957)
ema - we discussed the size business when the poster first came out.
Hermione actually stands by Harry in this one, while Ron is the one who doubts him.
In OotP, Ron stands by Harry, while it is Hermione who seems to retreat a bit.
We'll have to see what the next poster looks like!
The giant squid - Jan 17, 2006 2:00 am (#1745 of 1957)
For GoF, at least, it kind of made sense to have Ron further away from Harry--after all, they were fighting and thus Harry was "clsoer" to Hermione for most of it. As haymoni said, we'll seewhat the next on looks like and go from there.
--Mike
ema fewett - Jan 17, 2006 7:56 am (#1746 of 1957)
I agree....gosh...all of you think so practically! I would just be plain angry! But like Aqualu Nifey said, it's better to take the movies just for themselves and read the book like how it's SUPPOSED to be!
haymoni - Jan 17, 2006 3:46 pm (#1747 of 1957)
Oh ema!!!!
Find the POA thread and hold on to your hat!!!
We are NOT practical at all, but I think we released our anger at THAT movie much more than GOF.
The giant squid - Jan 18, 2006 12:05 am (#1748 of 1957)
Yeah, most of us released so much bile on the PoA thread that we're still restocking. We'll be back in form for the OotP movie, I'm sure.
--Mike
ema fewett - Jan 18, 2006 4:33 am (#1749 of 1957)
That's soo funny!! I'm off to look at the PoA thread now!
Liz Mann - Feb 1, 2006 11:06 am (#1750 of 1957)
Hee hee! From reading some of these posts, I think some of the people on here would be interested to see this fanlisting I made for people who love Harry, Ron and Hermione as they are in the books.
Hey guys, I sent my editorial off the Mugglenet today. But I've also discovered that someone else has already written a reply! However my editorial differs in many ways to that one, so there is hope that it will be published! I did happen to mention that Ron is nothing compared to Hermione when she's in a bad mood!
"Such a lovely, sweet-tempered girl". Hehe, I love that quote.
Liz Mann - Nov 30, 2005 2:30 pm (#1702 of 1957)
I hope you also mentioned that he is brave, frogface.
Hee hee! Yes, you must never cross Hermione.
Weeny Owl - Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm (#1703 of 1957)
Honestly, how could anyone who would sent birds to attack someone ever be in danger of being abused? The whole thing is just silly. Ron has a temper, yes, and he does have his less-than-noble moments, but who doesn't?
The excerpts used in the essay were not good examples, for one, and for another, whoever wrote that edited some of the quotes.
That reminds me of a funny thing I saw in a MAD Magazine years and years ago... it was a movie ad, and it quoted people who had reviewed the movie. It had things such as, "this movie is ... marvelous ... inspired ... thrilling," but the real review was more like, "this movie is a marvelous example of what NOT to see, and you'll be much more inspired if you stay home and take a nap. The most thrilling part of it was the credits."
By eliminating some of what was quoted in the essay, it changed the meaning, and even if no one is ever quite sure of what exactly JKR means, the possibilities change fully with the complete passage as opposed to just a few wrong quotes.
Your rebuttal nails all the points quite well, frogface.
bella - Dec 3, 2005 9:28 pm (#1704 of 1957)
I don't come up with theories very often, but after catching up on the posts since the release of HBP, I thought of something that seems to fit on this thread. Someone mentioned previously that Ron's self sacrifice may be repeated in book 7. I don't know if Voldemort would be silly enough to make the same mistake twice, but it would be a good (and unfortunate) parallel if Ron did sacrifice himself for Harry.
Voldemort is dead set on getting Harry, and I'm sure that if he discovers Harry has been disposing of his horcruxes one by one it will make him even crankier. I can see Ron jumping in front of an AK aimed at Harry and sort of resetting the love sacrifice protection. Voldemort in his rage at being thwarted yet again in his attempt to kill Harry may just fling off another AK for good measure. That curse bounces off, killing Voldemort and voila- end book 7.
Weeny Owl - Dec 4, 2005 9:45 am (#1705 of 1957)
The thing about Ron sacrificing himself again is that if it works out the same way it did in the first book, he might be knocked out, but he wouldn't die.
I just don't seek JKR killing him, and I definitely don't see Harry killing Voldemort with an Avada Kedavra.
Liz Mann - Dec 4, 2005 10:50 am (#1706 of 1957)
I hope you're right, Weeny Owl, because I can definately see Ron getting sacrificed again in the same manner as in PS. I just hope he survives it.
The thing is, I think both Ron and Hermione are in very severe danger, and here's why: I have said before on this forum (not sure which thread but I've said it) that I think book seven will end up playing out in the same kind of way that book one did, with Harry, Ron and Hermione having to combine all their different skills in order to get to and destroy the Horcruxes. I think this because the obstacles on the way to the locket were the same kind of thing as those on the way to the stone - physical obstacles that needed two or more people to get through them. No one person would have been able to do either alone. Harry, Ron and Hermione are three very different people with very different skills and when you put those skills together they make an very strong team. The problem will come if Voldemort realises this. Wormtail might well tell him enough to make him realise. And if he does realise, what is he going to try and do? Split them up! He'll almost certainly try to kill Ron and Hermione before he tries for Harry again. Either that or he'll completely disregard them as not being of any importance and it'll be his downfall. Let's hope the second.
So Sirius - Dec 8, 2005 9:41 am (#1707 of 1957)
I find the parallels regarding Hermione and Ron and Harrys mom and dad interesting. They're almost opposites of each other. Lily and Ron with red hair, hermione and James with dark, uncontrollable hair. Knowing that they're going to end up together, I think JKR is going to let them live, live out the life Lily and James couldn't and it will be Harry that sacrifices himself for the love of them. Anyway, that's the way I see it playing out. I agree that they'll combine their strengths to finish off the Horcruxs though.
I mentioned this on the movie thread. When McGonagall is teaching dancing, she says this "Inside every boy A lordly lion prepares to prance." Right before she calls on Ron. Last movie he just happened to get the candy that made him roar like a lion and this film, there's a reference too. I think Ron is bound for something in the end, that will make him great, like his buddy Harry. I'm not saying he's the heir of Gryffindor, but I'm not saying he's not, either. lol So, I think he'll survive to live out something good.
Liz Mann - Dec 8, 2005 10:40 am (#1708 of 1957)
Yeah, but I see paralells between James and Lily and Harry and Ginny. I think that if Ginny is alive by the end of the book, Harry will have a reason not to be killed off. Unless Ginny's going to have her heart broken.
sstabeler - Dec 8, 2005 11:08 am (#1709 of 1957)
Edited by Dec 8, 2005 11:09 am
to be honest, I can't see Ron and Hermione being killed unless they are VERY unlucky. as to why, they are going to be near Harry pretty much all the time, as if they go to 4 privet drive with him, AND set out to find and destroy the horcruxes with him, it's almost a given that about the only time Hermione for one will be away from harry is when they sleep, and Ron probably never. (except when one of them needs the bathroom, but I don't thing Voldemort is that cruel) so, really, I can't see Voldemort pulling off an assasination of either Ron or Hermione, or both without Harry being able to interfere. I'm not saying that they both will participate in the final battle though, the tasks they had to get through in PS were how many? sprout, flitwick, mcgonagall, quirrel, snape and dumbledore all gave protection, we'll discount fluffy for now, that is ^ tasks, there are 6 horcruxes. now, let's look at what happened, for sprout and flitwick, they were together, and were until the end of the task, Ron sacrificing Himself in a non-deadly fashion toallow harry to win, maybe the 3rd horcrux means Ron will have to stop helping them, maybe he is knocked unconscious, or maybe simply has to go to St. Mungo's due to a significant injury, then next task, someone has already done for them (locket, assuming RAB had removed the part of Voldemort's soul from the locket, and that it is the un-openable locket) then, on the next task, hermione willingly stops and helps ron, maybe she is the only one who can cure him of his injury sustained in the 1st one they did together, the mc-gonagall paralell one. then, the last one is kiling Voldemort himseldf, if you count Fluffy as a paralell, maybe that is the diary one, as that was easy to defeat, (ignoring the fact harry nearly died doing it, as it could have been done by the sword) then harry defeats Voldemort, perhaps putting him into a coma, and then someone else, maybe mc. gonagaqll, maybe Ginny? manages to cure him, and then, what happens next is unimportant to the paralell, and assuming the trio survive.
Jennifer Anderson - Dec 8, 2005 2:47 pm (#1710 of 1957)
"(except when one of them needs the bathroom, but I don't thing Voldemort is that cruel)" I think Voldemort is cruel enough to attack or have someone attack one of them while they're in bathroom, infact one could count on that. I mean if Draco Malfoy is "cruel" enough to do that then Voldemort is and Voldemort plays dirty, yeah I don't the bathroom is a saintury for the any of the trio. I'd venture to say that going to the bathroom is going to be dangerous place to be for them.
" I can't see Voldemort pulling off an assasination of either Ron or Hermione, or both without Harry being able to interfere." On that account I think you're probably right, to a certain degree.
Liz Mann - Dec 9, 2005 12:56 pm (#1711 of 1957)
Since the trio will all be in the same place throughout most of the book, if Voldemort can get to Ron and Hermione, why doesn't he just go straight for Harry? The only way I can see Ron and Hermione getting killed (and this is entirely possible) is either if one of the obstacles guarding the Horcruxes kill them or they get in the way of Voldie killing Harry (but not neccessarily in a way that would give Harry protection - besides, Voldemort would be pretty stupid if he fell for that again!).
bella - Dec 9, 2005 10:07 pm (#1712 of 1957)
It would put LV in a very awkward position if Ron did inadvertently sacrifice himself reinstating the protection,though. Voldy would have no choice but to let one of the other DEs get the job done; something he has been very reluctant to do since the beginning.
Honour - Dec 9, 2005 10:22 pm (#1713 of 1957)
Hi there Bella, as JKR has told us (and I paraphrase) that one can not inadvertently sacrifice ones self to "reinstate the protection spell". The sacrifice is a concious choice of love, not an accident. Lily was given a choice by Voldermort to stand aside and live, or not. She chose to protect her child. I doubt Voldermort would make that mistake again ... :-)
bella - Dec 9, 2005 10:57 pm (#1714 of 1957)
Sorry, let me rephrase, I more meant it to be inadvertent on Voldemort's part. More of an aiming for Harry and Ron consciously jumping in front sort of thing. In which case Ron would have made the choice to save Harry and Voldemort would have accidently made Harry once again untouchable.
Honour - Dec 9, 2005 11:37 pm (#1715 of 1957)
Hi there Bella, I don't think that scenario would work either, the whole idea of Liy's sacrifice was that, Voldermort had given Lily the option of living, Lily chose to die for her son, thus making her sacrifice a shield of protection (if you will) for Harry against Voldermort. The difference of the sacrifice that you outlined with Ron is that Voldermort would not have offered Ron the choice. JKR made the same point about James, who died defending his family, she said that Jame's death was not of the same sacrifice as Lily's so therefore the "Protection" spell was not activated.
Liz Mann - Dec 10, 2005 11:30 am (#1716 of 1957)
I agree with Honour. Ron would have to stand in the way and have Voldemort say, "Stand aside" and Ron would have to refuse. And Voldemort definately would not make THAT mistake twice! Not unless he's really stupid anyway.
bella - Dec 10, 2005 6:03 pm (#1717 of 1957)
I actually also agree with you guys, I just thought it would be an interesting thing to happen. And yes he really would have to be quite stupid to do it twice.
Mrs. Sirius - Dec 15, 2005 6:44 am (#1718 of 1957)
bella said I thought of something that seems to fit on this thread. Someone mentioned previously that Ron's self sacrifice may be repeated in book 7. I don't know if Voldemort would be silly enough to make the same mistake twice, but it would be a good (and unfortunate) parallel if Ron did sacrifice himself for Harry. Voldemort is dead set on getting Harry, and I'm sure that if he discovers Harry has been disposing of his horcruxes one by one it will make him even crankier. I can see Ron jumping in front of an AK aimed at Harry and sort of resetting the love sacrifice protection. Voldemort in his rage at being thwarted yet again in his attempt to kill Harry may just fling off another AK for good measure. That curse bounces off, killing Voldemort and voila- end book 7.
bella, I agree with what you say with some differences. Instead of Ron making the sacrifice, I think it might be Ginny. Harry loves Ron but only like a brother. Since they are not related, I don't know if Ron's love would be the same as his mother sacrifice. If Ginny and Harry were together or "in love" then that would make Harry-Ron more like brothers.
In HP an the Book Seven, I see Ginny as a wild card. She is smart enough to know Harry does not have time for a relationship, however she is a passionate girl and knows what she wants. She also has an interest in this fight. I expect Ginny will be at the final battle. And I can see her taking the AK for Harry, whatever Harry does in reaction to seeing Ginny killed would certainly spur him on and be "motivational". In the real world anything "justifiable" is scary but to witness your friends and family (even substitute family) murdered is motivational.
In POA, at the Christmas dinner Trelawney predicts that the first getting up from the dinner table of 13, will be the first to die. Ron and Harry get up first, it is never made explicit which one was up first. Because of this and many other clues, I believe that it is Ron who will die. Somehow at that final battle, Ron and Ginny will be prominent. They will each make fatal sacrifices for Harry. I don't believe they will both die.
bella - Dec 15, 2005 9:35 am (#1719 of 1957)
I really like the end as the beginning idea. The names don't have to be the same. So what your saying Mrs.S, is that using Ginny as the sacrifice would instill a different sort of protection. Not the blood protection of his mother, but pure rage? I like it. It could still work with Ron though.
Liz Mann - Dec 15, 2005 9:56 am (#1720 of 1957)
I don't think she'll use the sacrifice thing twice. It'd be a bit too much, and like I said, Voldemort would never fall for it again. However blind he is to matters of love, he is not stupid.
Liz Mann - Dec 18, 2005 6:43 am (#1721 of 1957)
You know, I've been thinking... dunno if this has been mentioned before, or even if I've mentioned it before, but I thought I'd post it anyway...
Ron is what made Harry the way he is. Think about it. Harry and Voldemort have a lot of similarities. They both had a very similar start in life. Both orphans, both raised by Muggles in places that they hate, with other kids making fun of them, both extremely talented, both with bad tempers and neither above revenge or even cruelty. Harry could very easily have turned out the same way Voldemort has... except Ron sat in the same compartment as him on the train. If that hadn't happened and Harry hadn't made friends with him, he might never have found his capacity to love because he wouldn't have had anyone to love. And Harry's ability to love is the major difference between Harry and Voldemort (as Dumbledore said in HBP). And if he hadn't made friends with Ron, he would never have had the opportunity to love any of the others that he does. He wouldn't have made friends with Hermione if Ron hadn't insulted her and made her run off to the bathroom to cry. He might not have made friends with Ginny if he hadn't made friends with her brother first.
And besides, if Harry hadn't met Ron he might have accepted Draco's friendship when it was offered (the reason he didn't was because Draco insulted Ron and that made Harry angry). Which means Harry might have let the Sorting Hat put him in Slytherin since Malfoy had already been sorted there. And who knows how Harry would have turned out then.
But then I suppose really, George is responsible for all that. After all, if he hadn't offered to help Harry load his trunk onto the train, the twins wouldn't have discovered who he was, they wouldn't have told Ron and Ron wouldn't have gone into the compartment to see if it was true.
Again, let's just hope Voldemort doesn't realise this.
Ydnam96 - Dec 18, 2005 9:41 am (#1722 of 1957)
Liz, I think to an extent you are correct. Harry needed an "in" to the Wizardin World and Ron provided that. Harry also needed a family; and again Ron provided that.
I have to say though, I don't think that Harry would have ended up friends with Malfoy. Pretty much everyone hates him and Harry's not stupid. He would have figured it out. I mean, didn't he sort of start his dislike for Malfoy in Madame Milkins before term even started?
Liz Mann - Dec 18, 2005 11:07 am (#1723 of 1957)
Yes, that's true. It was because he reminded him of Dudley. Still, he might have.
Aqualu Nifey - Dec 18, 2005 4:51 pm (#1724 of 1957)
But Harry and Voldemort reacted very differently when being told that they're wizards. Ickle Voldykins was very quick to believe that he was a wizard, while it took Harry a while to believe it. Their trips to Diagon Alley were also very different, Voldy-poo didn't want any help or support from Dumbledore when Harry relied rather heavily on Hagrid.
Mrs. Sirius - Dec 18, 2005 10:21 pm (#1725 of 1957)
Also Harry's, nature from the start, is different. Not only did he and LV react differently when told they were wizards, but LV had a well earned reputation with terrorizing others. Without understanding why, Voldemort knew he had power over others, and used it before being told he was a wizard. Harry seemed completely baffled that things "happened".
While Harry didn't have friends before his entry into the wizarding world, no one feared him in fact Dudley and his gang terrorized him.
The Malfoy episode goes to show the natural tendency of his character before he has actual information of his world.
But I do agree that Ron and the Weasleys have been a vital part to the shaping of Harry.
ema fewett - Dec 29, 2005 9:53 am (#1726 of 1957)
After all Ron's been through, when do you guys think Ron will be able to say Voldemort's name? I mean, Ginny and Hermione have already started using the name.
cindysuewho45 - Dec 29, 2005 1:23 pm (#1727 of 1957)
I think when Ron is in a sirius war situation and no longer using the school boy mantality it will be easier for him to say LV's name. The movies play Ron up to be a little doofy, however, in the books Ron is a sirius and statigic thinker. Just think about the chess games he's played. Even though he was young with a school boys mantality, he managed to play the best played chess game Hogwarts has ever seen. Now he is more mature and he has always been very brave!
Liz Mann - Jan 3, 2006 7:48 am (#1728 of 1957)
You have to realise that it's harder for Ron to say the name than it is for Harry and Hermione. Neither of them were raised in the wizard world, after all, and so it wasn't drummed into their heads, "Don't say the name... don't say the name..." As for Ginny, she's just a fiesty little thing.
I think Ron will say the name for the first time by accident in the middle of a rant or something. Then he'll realise what he just said and be in total shock while Harry and Hermione congratulate him.
TomProffitt - Jan 8, 2006 8:59 am (#1729 of 1957)
"As for Ginny, she's just a fiesty little thing." --- Liz Mann
Ginny also has been through her baptism of fire in CoS. Ginny has become a very self-confident person while Ron has always allowed himself to run a distant third behind Hermione and Harry. He really isn't being particularly fair to himself, but when everything is said and done he is more of a sidekick than a partner.
Ydnam96 - Jan 8, 2006 9:21 pm (#1730 of 1957)
Tom, I wouldn't say that. I think that both Ron and Hermione play equal, but different, parts in Harry's life. Ron has skills that Harry doesn't, such as the strategic thinking needed in chess. He simply has a self-esteem issue (growing up the youngest boy with 5 older brothers is probably very hard).
He has proven himself as a loyal friend, brave in the face of danger (the spiders for instance), and a source of knowledge about the wizarding world Harry and Hermione both lack. I would not demote him from best friend to sidekick.
K Stahl - Jan 9, 2006 12:30 pm (#1731 of 1957)
Sidekick. Never! Harry and Ron have been best friends from the time they first met on the train. Ron may not be as capable as Harry except for chess, but then Harry is no great wiz either. They are not that far apart in ability with Hermione overshadowing them both. Each has displayed great loyalty to the other, in times both thick and thin. For examples of sidekicks, one need look no farther than Crab and Goyle. In fact, I believe that Miss Rowling has used the dark trio as backdrop to accentuate precisely that characteristic, loyalty, in our heroic trio. Remember that what Harry possesses that the dark lord knows not is his capacity to love. This is central to the theme of the stories. While it is fun to ruminate about post-pubescent romantic love, the concept love is much broader than that. It encompasses the full intensity range of mild preference – preference – liking – love – romantic love. Loyalty is found fairly high on that intensity scale.
Now, to the thought that Ron is a strategic thinker. I believe that we make a mistake when we infer that Ron is a strategic thinker because he is good at chess. Miss Rowling has shown him to be a good chess player. The common understanding is that chess is a game of strategy and that Ron is therefore a strategic thinker. This understanding of chess comes from outside the books. Such knowledge can be used to support the contention that a character is a strategic thinker. It alone is not enough to establish that as fact within the story. I may be mistaken, but I know of now other example where Ron has displayed a capacity for strategic thinking.
A more interesting fact that might foreshadow future events is the manner in which Ron won the match in the Philosopher's Stone. He won by sacrificing himself so that Harry and Hermione could go on.
frogface - Jan 9, 2006 2:38 pm (#1732 of 1957)
I think Ron's performance in Quidditch is a foreshaddow as well. As long as he believes in himself he'll be able to do alot more. Very much like Neville actually.
Aqualu Nifey - Jan 9, 2006 5:27 pm (#1733 of 1957)
What Ron really needs is a subject in school that he excels in that Harry and Hermione do not. Harry's brilliant at DADA and Hermione's brilliant at pretty much else. It would be good for them to come to him for help with something.
TomProffitt - Jan 10, 2006 8:51 am (#1734 of 1957)
Now, now, let's not get touchy.
To Harry, Ron is the best friend Harry could have. To Harry, Ron is his equal.
Realistically, that's about friendship. When it comes to magical proficiency, knowledge, determination and bravery, Ron doesn't compare favorably to Harry and Hermione. Compared to the rest of his class, I think Ron is a cut above.
Ron's a follower, not a leader, that's what makes him more of a sidekick than a partner from a literary point of view.
haymoni- Jan 10, 2006 8:59 am (#1735 of 1957)
I think Ron's handled his prefect duties fairly well.
Mrs. Sirius - Jan 10, 2006 9:40 pm (#1736 of 1957)
In OoTP Ron doesn't perform well on Quiddich initially. He is very unpredictable, until Fred and George leave. He improves as soon as they leave. Then when harry leave, (I know he wasn't aware of that event) then Ron really takes off and wins the game.
Ron has a huge confidence problem. He is overshadowed by absolutely everyone. All his older brothers have won all the honors and awards available. Ginny is the only girl. His best friend at school gets all the attention and notice just by walking into a room! Hermione is the smartest girl in their year, probably the school.
Ron is good enough to get the grades to get into the classes with Harry and Hermione, he is Prefect, he is able, smart enough to offer aid and support to the wonderkin Potter.
You don't get to be the best friend and top aid to the top achievers just by being mediocre. Ron has a confidence problem, all the people around him are super achievers.
Honour - Jan 11, 2006 1:31 am (#1737 of 1957)
I wonder if Dumbledore gave Ron his Prefect badge because he wanted to give Ron the opportunity to gain confidence? Besides being intimidated by his brothers, Ron is also in awe and sometimes a little jealous of Harry, being "Harry Potter", his monetary wealth...
Just sort of wondering, I think it was inferred that Remus was made Prefect so that he could keep his friends in line, I also think Dumbledore gave Remus the same confidence boost he gave to Ron because Remus would have been suffering from the "Werewolf -blues" ...er I mean his "furry little problelm"
ema fewett - Jan 12, 2006 10:14 am (#1738 of 1957)
Very intersesting theory Honour....
I dont think that Ron is a sidekick in anyway....they make him look like that in the movies...but in the books, abosolutely not!
Like everyone's saying, I think the only problem he has is not having confidence in him. He has accomplished a lot so far, and with gaining a bit of confidence, imagine the feat he'll be able to accomplish?! I'll be cheering "GO Ron!!"
Ydnam96 - Jan 14, 2006 9:43 am (#1739 of 1957)
Hear Hear Ema!
Melly - Jan 16, 2006 1:47 am (#1740 of 1957)
I also agree with ema, in the movies Ron is just Harry's sidekick who provides some comedy throughout the film but in the books he's a lot more than that.
ema fewett - Jan 16, 2006 7:00 am (#1741 of 1957)
Also, if you look at both the movie posters for PoA and GoF, Hermione is closer to Harry and she has a bigger close up than Ron. What I cant understand is why dont they make Ron and Hermione equal?!
Aqualu Nifey - Jan 16, 2006 1:33 pm (#1742 of 1957)
I don't agree with movie-Hermione at all. Blonde hair, I ask you! *takes deep breath* In any event, I find it best to just ignore the movies, in terms of anything related to the books. They're nice and cute, but aren't a truly accurate portrayal of certain major characters.
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 16, 2006 2:00 pm (#1743 of 1957)
MOVIE CONTAMINATION!!!!
Mickey
haymoni- Jan 16, 2006 7:44 pm (#1744 of 1957)
ema - we discussed the size business when the poster first came out.
Hermione actually stands by Harry in this one, while Ron is the one who doubts him.
In OotP, Ron stands by Harry, while it is Hermione who seems to retreat a bit.
We'll have to see what the next poster looks like!
The giant squid - Jan 17, 2006 2:00 am (#1745 of 1957)
For GoF, at least, it kind of made sense to have Ron further away from Harry--after all, they were fighting and thus Harry was "clsoer" to Hermione for most of it. As haymoni said, we'll seewhat the next on looks like and go from there.
--Mike
ema fewett - Jan 17, 2006 7:56 am (#1746 of 1957)
I agree....gosh...all of you think so practically! I would just be plain angry! But like Aqualu Nifey said, it's better to take the movies just for themselves and read the book like how it's SUPPOSED to be!
haymoni - Jan 17, 2006 3:46 pm (#1747 of 1957)
Oh ema!!!!
Find the POA thread and hold on to your hat!!!
We are NOT practical at all, but I think we released our anger at THAT movie much more than GOF.
The giant squid - Jan 18, 2006 12:05 am (#1748 of 1957)
Yeah, most of us released so much bile on the PoA thread that we're still restocking. We'll be back in form for the OotP movie, I'm sure.
--Mike
ema fewett - Jan 18, 2006 4:33 am (#1749 of 1957)
That's soo funny!! I'm off to look at the PoA thread now!
Liz Mann - Feb 1, 2006 11:06 am (#1750 of 1957)
Hee hee! From reading some of these posts, I think some of the people on here would be interested to see this fanlisting I made for people who love Harry, Ron and Hermione as they are in the books.
Mona- Hufflepuff Prefect
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ema fewett - Feb 1, 2006 6:20 pm (#1751 of 1957)
Liz!!! That is such a GREAT site!!!!! I'm soooo going and exploring it now!!!
Liz Mann - Feb 2, 2006 5:15 am (#1752 of 1957)
Wow, enthusiasm. Thanks, Ema.
The One - Feb 22, 2006 3:26 pm (#1753 of 1957)
The relationship between Ron and Lavender, a maturing relationship for Ron?
In an interview, JKR says something interesting about that relationship:
“But Ron — I had a lot of fun with that in this book. I really enjoyed writing the Ron/Lavender business, and the reason that was enjoyable was Ron up to this point has been quite immature compared to the other two and he kind of needed to make himself worthy of Hermione. Now, that didn't mean necessarily physical experience but he had to grow up emotionally and now he's taken a big step up. Because he's had the meaningless physical experience - let’s face it, his emotions were never deeply engaged with Lavender – and he's realized that that is ultimately not what he wants, which takes him a huge emotional step forward. “
This has intrigued me a bit. He has matured through his relationship with Lavender she says? He has realized what he does not really want? The strange thing about this is that before his Lavender experience he appears to want Hermione. After the relationship he still wants Hermione. How is that maturing?
The reference to “the meaningless physical experience” makes it look like Ron abandoned Hermione for a better looking or better kissing girl. Like Hermione said in GoF, he went for the “best looking girl that would have him, even if she was completely horrible”. But the events leading up to the relationship does not really give the impression of: “Never mind Hermione, Lavender is much prettier!” It gives more the impression of a guy feeling down because everyone of his friends is so more experienced in the boy/girl stuff than him. He feels inferior. It is important to note that the whole Lavender thing isn’t about sex; it is about image.
Close to the end of the Lavender relationship there happens one thing that really signals a change in maturity level. Ron, the guy that was shocked that a boy who could pick any girl would go for Luna, suddenly declares his liking for Luna. The sudden change in attitude towards the oddball at school, the will to make up his own opinion instead of going with the popular opinion about said oddball, is to me the great leap forward Ron makes. That is maturing. Much more so than the idea that because Ron has been snogging as many girls as Hermione has snogged boys he no longer feels inferior.
To me JKR’s statement seems to make much more sense if I assume that the development in Ron’s relationship with Luna is important.
Soul Search - Feb 22, 2006 5:30 pm (#1754 of 1957)
You know, I don't think the Ron/Hermione relationship is a done deal. It hadn't been cemented in any way at the end of HBP. They seemed to come to an understanding of mutual interest, but that's all.
They have had too many conflicts throughout the six books. They are each very different and each has high expectations of a potential partner. I have doubts that this can all be reconciled into a happy relationship. I see trouble ahead.
Just a few basic "show stopper" personality conflicts:
Hermione is smart and academic. Ron is ho hum about school work.
Ron is "sports" oriented. Hermione isn't. She was very critical of McClaggen for his Quiditch talk.
Hermione is very critical of Ron (and Harry.) Ron is very forgiving of his friends; they don't have to be perfect.
Hermione adopts "impossible" causes, like SPEW. Ron is more practical (and could care less.)
Any more?
ema fewett - Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am (#1755 of 1957)
Maybe that can go into the "Ship" thread!
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 23, 2006 7:29 am (#1756 of 1957)
Edited by Feb 23, 2006 7:31 am
---quote--- Hermione is very critical of Ron (and Harry.) Ron is very forgiving of his friends; they don't have to be perfect. ---end quote---
I'll have to disagree with this one. Ron is just as critical as Hermione is of him. Where the real problem comes is that while Hermione is critical of her friends' mistakes (they aren't keeping up with their work, they don't worry enough about the rules, they aren't performing spell X correctly, etc.), Ron is critical of her strengths. He's ragged on her for being a know-it-all since Book 1, he was furious when she tried to befriend the "competition" in the Tri-Wizard tournament, etc. This is where I see the conflict coming, both in the arguments that have permeated their friendship over the last six years as well as in any future relationship developments: the step Ron needs to take is to start appreciating it when she's right and taking it with a grumble (in all fairness, Harry tends to sulk as well when Hermione proves him wrong, and we've seen in Slughorn's class how little Hermione likes to be outshone.)
The One - Feb 23, 2006 8:46 am (#1757 of 1957)
Harry tends to sulk as well when Hermione proves him wrong,
I tend to disagree on this. Harry has never had any problems with Hermione being cleverer than he is. He withdraw becasue Hermione presents him with unpleasant facts, that he deep down knows is true.
Ron has issues with Hermione beeing smarter than he is. He behaves badly sometimes because he is insecure and hates that everyone is "better than he is.
Hermione is insecure, and compencates by always being "best", and gets a bit uptight when she fails to be so.
In one way, Ron and Hermione is not that different, but looked upon differently, they are exact opposites.
LooneyLuna - Feb 23, 2006 1:01 pm (#1758 of 1957)
Personally, I thought the turning point for Ron was his near-death experience. After that, he had moved beyond Lavender, but didn't have the heart to break up with her.
Of course, JKR knows best.
Soul Search - Feb 23, 2006 3:31 pm (#1759 of 1957)
ex-FAHgeek, good point about Ron being critical of Hermione. Far as I can recall, however, the only examples are when she has been critical of him or Harry.
... and we've seen in Slughorn's class how little Hermione likes to be outshone.
I thought Hermione was being very unfair to Harry. So what he was using the Prince's book; she doesn't have to be best at everything. I think she was also upset when Harry got an outstanding in DADA and she didn't. Big character flaw, not being able to feel good about your friends' successes. Doesn't bode well for Ron, either. Or, maybe it does. Ron isn't likely to be much competition for her, in anything she cares about.
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 24, 2006 5:39 am (#1760 of 1957)
Edited by Feb 24, 2006 5:40 am
---quote--- I think she was also upset when Harry got an outstanding in DADA and she didn't. ---end quote---
I don't think that had anything to do with Harry's O; I think she was just disappointed that she didn't get straight O's. Compare back to OotP, when she's not only candid that Harry outscored her on Lupin's DADA exam but also used that to encourage him and prove that he was excelling more than she was.
But now to get back on the topic of Ron...
---quote--- He withdraw becasue Hermione presents him with unpleasant facts, that he deep down knows is true.
Ron has issues with Hermione beeing smarter than he is. ---end quote---
Precisely. Both Harry and Ron become irritated because they know she's right. The big difference is that Harry's sulking usually ends with an acceptance, however grudging, of that fact. Ron usually retaliates by belittling Hermione's strengths. He's going to have to overcome that if their relationship is going to advance, either as better friends or as something more.
The One - Feb 24, 2006 6:52 am (#1761 of 1957)
Both Harry and Ron become irritated because they know she's right.
That is not my impression.
Ron get irritated because she knows. Harry does not.
Ron gets irrateted by the very fact that she is "better" than she is. We see that in his attempts to belittle her strenght, even in situations where he is not confronted with unpleasant facts. Like his slur on her Boggart as being a piece of homework scoring 9 out of 10, his reactions to her quoting "Hogwarts, A history " all the time.
Harry reacts badly, not because he has problems with her being right, but because he does not like the world as presented by Hermione. He never berates Hermione for beeing a know-it-all, as does Ron, because he never has any problem with Hermione beeing smart. But lika most of us, Harry does avoid reality at times, when reality get to harsh. And that sometimes includes avoiding Hermione.
Weeny Owl - Feb 24, 2006 9:28 am (#1762 of 1957)
I come from a long line of academic overachievers, and while most of them are fairly easy-going about it, one or two are just like Hermione, and they can be irritating beyond belief.
I don't think Ron belittles her exactly. I think he admires her, but at the same time, her constant harping about things gets annoying. Harry's feelings are the same at times but his outward reactions are the difference. He retreats while Ron doesn't.
It isn't just her academic achievements but also her insistence that people agree with her on issues such as house-elves.
Hermione even tries manipulation, such as when she brings up Quidditch, and this time she annoyed Ginny and Ginny told her to stop pretending she cared about it or she would embarrass herself.
I don't see that Ron's reactions to Hermione are any different than anyone else's, but while he might make the odd comment on occasion, most of the time he seems to be more amused than anything.
ema fewett - Feb 24, 2006 1:17 pm (#1763 of 1957)
Here here Weeny Owl!!
Caius Iulius - Feb 25, 2006 4:35 am (#1764 of 1957)
I don't think Ron and Hermione are that different in things that matter. And what matters is a war against Voldemort who might destroy their world and everything good in it. They also agree on the pure blood issue being ridiculous. It is only on smaller and daily issues they disagree.
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 25, 2006 8:57 am (#1765 of 1957)
Very true, Caius Iulius. However, that's where the problem comes: while they make a great team in their "working" relationship, it's the daily interaction that matters most in a personal relationship.
As a part of a trio of friends, Hermione and Ron get along wonderfully. One thing that's always bothered me is that they both seem to be friends more because of "we both like hanging out with Harry (and Ginny, Neville, etc.) and don't mind one another's company," rather than "we're both really good friends and we have other mutual really close friends." It's their one-on-one relationship that needs a fair bit of work, as I always get the feelingthat without Harry between them they'd be just "friendly peers." They know each other well and they like one another, but they lack another step of appreciation for one another's presence in their lives.
frogface - Feb 25, 2006 9:44 am (#1766 of 1957)
Oh I don't know about that. While Harry remains at the centre of the trio (and the story) I think they have a pretty strong friendship. They stayed together without Harry for weeks during their summer in OotP before school. And Ron confided in Hermione when he and Harry fell out in GoF. Plus Hermione is willing to break rules for Ron (confounding quidditch rivals hehe) I think that speak volumes about the true nature of their relationship. Alot of it is buried beneath silly bickering and the want to hide their true feelings for each other.
Mediwitch - Feb 25, 2006 8:26 pm (#1767 of 1957)
It's important to remember that we are seeing their relationship from Harry's perspective, also. Harry is not the most emotionally astute teenager, nor is he particularly observant of other people. I think HE has just not noticed Ron's and Hermione's relationship, except the bickering, because it got on his nerves. Ron and Hermione do spend a lot of time together that Harry is not privvy to...as prefects (i.e. on the train), when Harry is doing lessons with Dumbledore, the four years' worth of Quidditch practices before Ron made the team...
Lina - Feb 26, 2006 3:49 am (#1768 of 1957)
I'd just like to remember the moment when the trio became friends - it was their battle with the Troll. Before that battle Ron noticed Hermione already. I don't think he would be bothered by her know-it-all-ness if he didn't care for her and admire her already. Ron and Harry became friends in the train, but Hermione became friend to both of them, not just to Harry. On the contrary, I'd say that Harry entered that friendship by accident, just because he was already friend with Ron. It was Ron who hurt Hermione and made her cry.
The other thing that I would like to mention is the fact that Hermione has no problems in hugging Harry. Whenever they celebrate something. Because this is a friendly hug and they both know it. But she doesn't feel comfortable Hugging Ron the same way. I'd call it a hint.
Caius Iulius: It is only on smaller and daily issues they disagree.
... as all couples do.
I'd just mention one more thing: Ron freaked up when Malfoy called Hermione Moodblood. It has nothing to do with their friendship with Harry.
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 26, 2006 7:41 am (#1769 of 1957)
Edited by Feb 26, 2006 7:48 am
---quote--- Ron freaked up when Malfoy called Hermione Moodblood. ---end quote---
As did Angelina Johnson, the Weasley twins, and everyone else outside of Slytherin who knew what the word meant.
---quote--- On the contrary, I'd say that Harry entered that friendship by accident, just because he was already friend with Ron. It was Ron who hurt Hermione and made her cry. ---end quote---
Harry, however, was the one who thought about warning her. Ron couldn't have cared less until Harry brought up the point.
And Hermione was in the bathroom crying because Ron was mean to her and, to put it quite bluntly, borderline despised her at that point. It was the troll incident that made him consider her a peer rather than an annoyance.
Lina - Feb 26, 2006 8:42 am (#1770 of 1957)
# Let's put it the other way: Would Hermione be crying if someone else were mean to her?
# Would Ron be so mean with someone whom he didn't notice?
I think not.
Mrs. Sirius - Feb 27, 2006 9:23 pm (#1771 of 1957)
(H)e he he Lina. I agree, and I think the first place Ron and Hermione "noticed" each other was on the train. Hermione was looking at Ron, to notice he had dirt, on his nose. Yes, I know they were young and at that point, but she noticed.
The One - Feb 27, 2006 9:37 pm (#1772 of 1957)
Let's put it the other way:
# Would Hermione be crying if someone else were mean to her?
# Would Ron be so mean with someone whom he didn't notice?
1. Yes, most probably. At that point she was a loneley, insecure unpopular geek, and Ron very forcefully reminded her of that fact.
2. No, but if at that point the only thing he noticed about her was that she was horrible, he very well might. Teenagers do sometimes simply dislike each other, it is not so that any dislike among tenagers is hidden love.
frogface - Feb 28, 2006 3:34 am (#1773 of 1957)
I'd have to disagree with you there The One. I think its very common for children and teenagers to hide attraction beneath a pretence of dislike. And from the word go it struck me that that is what was happening with Hermione and Ron.
The One - Feb 28, 2006 7:23 am (#1774 of 1957)
I never said that it is not common. I only say that it is not the only possible explanation.
Boy meets girls. Girl behaves like a prat. Boys get extremly annoyed. Girl gets hurt that boy is so annoyed.
Conclusion: Boy and girl is falling in love. Yes, it is pssible, but it does not have to be so.
To me Ron is a boy that has strong problems with insecurity and beeing overshadowed. We see him complain about his siblings and about poverty. We see him have a fallout with Harry over it. There is no reason at all that he will not also have issues with Hermione, whether in love or not.
Pinky Prime - Feb 28, 2006 7:30 am (#1775 of 1957)
Ron was hugging Hermione at DD's funeral they didn't appear to be ashamed then. He was stroking her hair (more comfortable touching her as he gets older). They were crying on each others shoulders not the trio together.
The line is drawn, Ron is okay as far as anyone else is concerned as being an appropiate match for Hermione. (The whole Weasely Lot are supposed to be Blood Traitors) Whereas, with Harry and Hermione all the hate mail Hermione received shows us people are not so keen to see them as a couple (even Mrs. Weasley).
P.S. I think that the sorting hat should have said Ron had a real thirst to prove himself as it told Harry. As his confidence over insecurity and poverty improve he will get the nerve to confront Hermione. Even James and Lily had many disagreements.
Mrs. Sirius - Mar 3, 2006 10:25 pm (#1776 of 1957)
I just noticed in SS that when Ron puts on the sorting hat, it quickly screams out "Gryffindor"! Just as it barely touched Malfoy's head and screamed Slytherin. Whatever else there is no question that Ron has always had the courage.
Die Zimtzicke - Mar 7, 2006 9:46 am (#1777 of 1957)
Yes, Hermione noticed Ron had dirt on his nose, so she was aware of him when they were very young, but Harry noticed Luna had a smudge of earth on her nose when she came out of the greenhouse, so I don't know how far that should go. This isn't the shipping thread.
Ron does have feelings of insecurity, but it's always, since the Mirror of Erised, had to do with him proving himself special for who he is. All of his friends can help him with that, especially Harry.
Ron was Jo's way of introducing Harry to the Wizarding World, and to Wizarding families, but Ron will always be the person who matters most to Harry, just as he was in the lake during the 2nd task. Harry liked Hermione still being his friend when he and Ron were fighting, but he admitted he didn't have as much fun with her. When he wanted to date Ginny, he was more worried about how Ron would take it than he was about if Ginny were still interested in him, after Hermione had told him she supposedly had given up on Harry. Ginny never did, but Harry didn't know that.
For Harry, Ron will always be his best mate, no matter what else happens in their lives.
cindysuewho45 - Apr 2, 2006 10:05 pm (#1778 of 1957)
Hi all, I like Ron alot in the books. But I wish that they did not take his lines away from him in the movies. It makes him look not so smart, and as the books come to a end, he may need to help out and use some smarts. Now we who have read the books will go for it, but if you have only seen the movies. You could not go along with him helping to save the day. I hope that they start giving Ron more credit.
K Stahl - Apr 5, 2006 2:05 pm (#1779 of 1957)
I have noticed it also. It is not simply that Ron does not get justice in the movies; Harry also looses lines in what I have come to think of as the ‘Hermionization’ of the characters. This was first obvious to me in the Prisoner of Azkaban movie where it was Hermione and not Harry who figured out what Dumbledore wanted with the extra three hours. Harry was also the one who moved them out of the way of Lupin. In the first movie, Ron kept his cool even as the Devils Snare entangled him. Hermione was the one who was flustered.
These changes serve to elevate the character of Hermione at the expense of the other characters such as Harry and Ron.
I attribute it to the fact that the screenplays for all four movies were written by Steve Kloves. I could be wrong about this. Perhaps it was a conspiracy at Warner.
Choices - Apr 5, 2006 5:32 pm (#1780 of 1957)
....and when it became Ron who was flustered over the Devil's Snare instead of Hermione, we lost that great line: "HAVE YOU GONE MAD?" Ron bellowed. ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT?"
Mediwitch - Apr 5, 2006 6:47 pm (#1781 of 1957)
That is my absolute favorite "Ron" line...and one of my all-time favorite lines! Smile I think Ron is really a hoot, and I agree with Situ KaiDa about the ‘Hermionization’ of the films.
Soul Search - Apr 5, 2006 8:14 pm (#1782 of 1957)
I have noticed a lot of switching of lines in the movies, especially PoA and Gof, but I hadn't noted that Hermione was the favored recipient of other characters' lines. I think there is something to it. No idea why that would be, though.
One, sort of, that I particularly noted was towards the end of PoA. A major theme of PoA was Harry learning about his father. He practically gushed every time someone compared him to James. As Sirius is leaving on Buckbeak, he says to Harry "you are your father's son." Rather made Harry's day. But in the movie, Sirius says Hermione is the greatest witch of her age. This was Lupin's line, in the shack.
Why trade an important line about Harry for one about Hermione; Sirius didn't even know Hermione; he had no basis for the statement!
I am thinking most of the complaints I have about the movies derive first from the screen play, more than anything else.
Finn BV - Apr 6, 2006 4:16 pm (#1783 of 1957)
Guys, if we could steer the topic back on to Ron in the books… For movies, there is the folder set up down near the bottom of the main page.
haymoni - Apr 6, 2006 5:07 pm (#1784 of 1957)
I'd really like to see some real magic from Ron in Book 7.
Finn BV - Apr 6, 2006 5:14 pm (#1785 of 1957)
I agree. Ron's been showing the real "history" side of wizarding – being able to assist in all wizard family matters – but no real "practical" side.
It's like the graduation requirement for arts at my high school. You have to take at least one art appreciation/history and one art studio/performance, and Ron's only really done the former.
Pinky Prime - Apr 20, 2006 7:24 am (#1786 of 1957)
Somehow I don't see Ron as a MOM employee.
I don't see him joining any clubs like spew. He wants to be just as or more famous and richer than his siblings.
I'm not an employment specialist but I could see him as a treasure seeker. Adventure with the bravery of his Gryffindor heritage and the intellect of his chess playing mind I think he will go far to seek his fame and fortune from beyond Harry and Hermione's shadow.
The One - Apr 20, 2006 7:45 am (#1787 of 1957)
He wants to be just as or more famous and richer than his siblings.
I do not think so. It was his image in the mirror of erised, but I interpret that as a result if his insecurities.
Ron need to have the courage to ignore everyone else and find his place in life. If that means being a MoM official, then be it. If tha means being botha a curse breaker and a dragon expert, selling joke stuff in his spare time, than so be it, but it should be because that is what HE wants, not just becaase he feels the need to ba at least as spectacular as his brothers.
We see one of his steps in the direction of maturity in HBP when he suddenly declares his liking for Luna, he has suddenly got the courage to make up his own opinion about her, instead of avoiding her because everyone else thinks she is an oddball.
journeymom - Apr 20, 2006 7:50 am (#1788 of 1957)
Remind me when Ron states he likes Luna? I simply don't remember the circumstances.
Holly T. - Apr 20, 2006 7:58 am (#1789 of 1957)
Isn't it when he's in the hospital wing, after he's listened to her commentary on the Quidditch match?
azi - Apr 20, 2006 8:04 am (#1790 of 1957)
I think this is what we're looking for...
UK edition, HBP, chapter 'Lord Voldemort's Request', page 398, Ron's speaking.
'You know, she's grown on me, Luna,' he said as they set off again for the Great Hall. 'I know she's insane, but it's in a good-'
Cue Lavender looking very annoyed! Hope this helps. I thought there was something more obvious, so will keep looking.
Die Zimtzicke - Apr 22, 2006 7:09 pm (#1791 of 1957)
I think Ron's gotten more used to Luna and sees her as an ally (Odd, since they are neighbors and you'd think he'd already know her) but I don't think he likes her very much. Even when he was out of his head in OotP, he was still calling her loony . It's deep in his subconcious that he thinks she's weird. I think he doesn't mind her anymore, but he'll never really LIKE her.
And I don't think she really likes Ron either, although she doesn't dislike him. In OotP when he snapped at her that she had a rubbish sense of humor, she was "unperturbed".If someone you really liked snapped at you like that, would you be unperturbed? I wouldn't. I'd be crushed.
I'm glad she's grown on Ron, though, even if he does think she's insane, because I think she'll be back in book seven more than she was in book six and Ron'll have to interact with her at least somewhat.
Choices - Apr 23, 2006 11:05 am (#1792 of 1957)
I think I would be crushed too, but Luna is a whole different story. She more or less lives in her own little world. I know several couples that started out disliking each other and ended up happily married.
rambkowalczyk - Apr 23, 2006 4:46 pm (#1793 of 1957)
Actually in book 5 Luna seemed to have a fascination for Ron. On the train she told Ron that Padma didn't like being ignored and she laughed hysterically at a joke Ron made about Crabbe or Goyle.
Die Zimtzicke - Apr 24, 2006 10:08 am (#1794 of 1957)
Looking at someone as if they were a mildly interesting televison program doesn't seem like a fascination to me. Her reactions to everything are not what you would expect, though. I agree with that. If you want to say Luna liked Ron, there's some evidence for it, alhtough I don't see much of it, but there is no evidence Ron ever liked her until he made the comment about her growing on him, but still being insane.
I know people can start out disliking each other, and get married. Lily did tell James at one point she'd rather date the Giant Squid, after all, but Jo said in her Mugglenet/Leaky Cauldron interview that we now know it's Ron and Hermione, and she gave "anvil" sized hints for it. That pretty much kills Ron/Anything else for me. Jo misleads, but she doesn't outright lie. I've never caught her outright lying.
rambkowalczyk - Apr 26, 2006 5:10 am (#1795 of 1957)
What I consider to be Luna's fascination with Ron only existed in OOP. By the beginning of book 6, she seems to outgrown it. (maybe because she doesn't want the object of her fantasies insulting her.) If JKR did write Luna as having a crush on Ron, what it might mean is that Ron is cute (or desirable)in his own right not just because he is Harry's friend. Notice that neither Luna nor Lavender used Ron as a means to get to Harry. The way Ron sees himself is not the way other people see him.
The One - Apr 26, 2006 5:29 am (#1796 of 1957)
I think that in OotP Luna does behave a bit strangely with respect to Harry. I think she had a crush. In HBP we do not see anything of it, we suu that Luna says that Ron is funny, but a bit cruek at times. We do see Ron starting to like Luna, but we see no reason to assume that this liking is of romantic nature.
Still, my gut feeling tells me that this interactions does mean something. They are just a tiny bit to weird to be there for nothing. I also doubt that Luna's facination with Ron was there to show that Ron is growing to be an attractive young man in general, if that was the point would she used the weirdest girl at school?
My guess is that we will see some Luna/Ron interaction of some kind in book 7. My gut feeling tells me what we have seen so far is pointing forward.
frogface - Apr 26, 2006 8:36 am (#1797 of 1957)
It may point towards them being vast friends, which would show a lot of growth in Ron's character. I doubt anything romantic would ever happen between them though, I'm certain Ron is for Hermione now.
Honour - Jul 15, 2006 4:29 am (#1798 of 1957)
Hopefully in book 7 Ron will return being a little more mature, a little less angry, and for his own sake a more confident young man who is able to accept Hermione for her intelligence, her forth rightedness, and all the little Hermione-isms that drive him up the wall, and cherish the young woman who looks upon him affectionately.
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 15, 2006 5:58 am (#1799 of 1957)
Since Jo told us, yes, it's Ron and Hermione, and if we didn't see that we need to go back and reread, I think the best we can hope for with Luna is for Ron, and a lot of other people, by the way, to appreciate her more than they do now. She's the only person from another house to crack Harry's inner circle, and we need that inter-house unity we've been waiting for.
I still think it's odd, though, that there are only four wizarding families around Ron's village, and he acted like he didn't even know Luna when we met her in OotP. Didn't the Ron's family EVER interact with anyone outside of the family socially?
Catherine - Jul 15, 2006 6:07 am (#1800 of 1957)
Edited Jul 15, 2006 7:08 am
I got the sense that the Lovegoods and the Weasleys don't share the physical proximity that we might experience in the city or in suburban neighborhoods.
Mr. Lovegood doesn't work at the Ministry, and Arthur seems to work long hours, which inhibits time for socializing. Mrs. Lovegood has been dead for year, sadly for Luna and her father. It is interesting that Ginny and Luna never seemed to socialize until Hogwarts. Maybe the absence of Mrs. Lovegood along with Luna's father's career sidetracked their socializing with other wizarding families.
The Weasleys seem to be pretty "sufficient unto themselves" socially. Cedric is "in between" Percy and the twins age-wise. Mrs. Weasley seems familiar friendly to Mr. Diggory in Go (she is on a first name basis); perhaps they did socialize, and we just don't know.
Back to Ron, I think he grew up playing with brothers, not other wizard children. That's probably one reason why he seems so conscious of his "place" among his brothers.
Liz!!! That is such a GREAT site!!!!! I'm soooo going and exploring it now!!!
Liz Mann - Feb 2, 2006 5:15 am (#1752 of 1957)
Wow, enthusiasm. Thanks, Ema.
The One - Feb 22, 2006 3:26 pm (#1753 of 1957)
The relationship between Ron and Lavender, a maturing relationship for Ron?
In an interview, JKR says something interesting about that relationship:
“But Ron — I had a lot of fun with that in this book. I really enjoyed writing the Ron/Lavender business, and the reason that was enjoyable was Ron up to this point has been quite immature compared to the other two and he kind of needed to make himself worthy of Hermione. Now, that didn't mean necessarily physical experience but he had to grow up emotionally and now he's taken a big step up. Because he's had the meaningless physical experience - let’s face it, his emotions were never deeply engaged with Lavender – and he's realized that that is ultimately not what he wants, which takes him a huge emotional step forward. “
This has intrigued me a bit. He has matured through his relationship with Lavender she says? He has realized what he does not really want? The strange thing about this is that before his Lavender experience he appears to want Hermione. After the relationship he still wants Hermione. How is that maturing?
The reference to “the meaningless physical experience” makes it look like Ron abandoned Hermione for a better looking or better kissing girl. Like Hermione said in GoF, he went for the “best looking girl that would have him, even if she was completely horrible”. But the events leading up to the relationship does not really give the impression of: “Never mind Hermione, Lavender is much prettier!” It gives more the impression of a guy feeling down because everyone of his friends is so more experienced in the boy/girl stuff than him. He feels inferior. It is important to note that the whole Lavender thing isn’t about sex; it is about image.
Close to the end of the Lavender relationship there happens one thing that really signals a change in maturity level. Ron, the guy that was shocked that a boy who could pick any girl would go for Luna, suddenly declares his liking for Luna. The sudden change in attitude towards the oddball at school, the will to make up his own opinion instead of going with the popular opinion about said oddball, is to me the great leap forward Ron makes. That is maturing. Much more so than the idea that because Ron has been snogging as many girls as Hermione has snogged boys he no longer feels inferior.
To me JKR’s statement seems to make much more sense if I assume that the development in Ron’s relationship with Luna is important.
Soul Search - Feb 22, 2006 5:30 pm (#1754 of 1957)
You know, I don't think the Ron/Hermione relationship is a done deal. It hadn't been cemented in any way at the end of HBP. They seemed to come to an understanding of mutual interest, but that's all.
They have had too many conflicts throughout the six books. They are each very different and each has high expectations of a potential partner. I have doubts that this can all be reconciled into a happy relationship. I see trouble ahead.
Just a few basic "show stopper" personality conflicts:
Hermione is smart and academic. Ron is ho hum about school work.
Ron is "sports" oriented. Hermione isn't. She was very critical of McClaggen for his Quiditch talk.
Hermione is very critical of Ron (and Harry.) Ron is very forgiving of his friends; they don't have to be perfect.
Hermione adopts "impossible" causes, like SPEW. Ron is more practical (and could care less.)
Any more?
ema fewett - Feb 23, 2006 4:34 am (#1755 of 1957)
Maybe that can go into the "Ship" thread!
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 23, 2006 7:29 am (#1756 of 1957)
Edited by Feb 23, 2006 7:31 am
---quote--- Hermione is very critical of Ron (and Harry.) Ron is very forgiving of his friends; they don't have to be perfect. ---end quote---
I'll have to disagree with this one. Ron is just as critical as Hermione is of him. Where the real problem comes is that while Hermione is critical of her friends' mistakes (they aren't keeping up with their work, they don't worry enough about the rules, they aren't performing spell X correctly, etc.), Ron is critical of her strengths. He's ragged on her for being a know-it-all since Book 1, he was furious when she tried to befriend the "competition" in the Tri-Wizard tournament, etc. This is where I see the conflict coming, both in the arguments that have permeated their friendship over the last six years as well as in any future relationship developments: the step Ron needs to take is to start appreciating it when she's right and taking it with a grumble (in all fairness, Harry tends to sulk as well when Hermione proves him wrong, and we've seen in Slughorn's class how little Hermione likes to be outshone.)
The One - Feb 23, 2006 8:46 am (#1757 of 1957)
Harry tends to sulk as well when Hermione proves him wrong,
I tend to disagree on this. Harry has never had any problems with Hermione being cleverer than he is. He withdraw becasue Hermione presents him with unpleasant facts, that he deep down knows is true.
Ron has issues with Hermione beeing smarter than he is. He behaves badly sometimes because he is insecure and hates that everyone is "better than he is.
Hermione is insecure, and compencates by always being "best", and gets a bit uptight when she fails to be so.
In one way, Ron and Hermione is not that different, but looked upon differently, they are exact opposites.
LooneyLuna - Feb 23, 2006 1:01 pm (#1758 of 1957)
Personally, I thought the turning point for Ron was his near-death experience. After that, he had moved beyond Lavender, but didn't have the heart to break up with her.
Of course, JKR knows best.
Soul Search - Feb 23, 2006 3:31 pm (#1759 of 1957)
ex-FAHgeek, good point about Ron being critical of Hermione. Far as I can recall, however, the only examples are when she has been critical of him or Harry.
... and we've seen in Slughorn's class how little Hermione likes to be outshone.
I thought Hermione was being very unfair to Harry. So what he was using the Prince's book; she doesn't have to be best at everything. I think she was also upset when Harry got an outstanding in DADA and she didn't. Big character flaw, not being able to feel good about your friends' successes. Doesn't bode well for Ron, either. Or, maybe it does. Ron isn't likely to be much competition for her, in anything she cares about.
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 24, 2006 5:39 am (#1760 of 1957)
Edited by Feb 24, 2006 5:40 am
---quote--- I think she was also upset when Harry got an outstanding in DADA and she didn't. ---end quote---
I don't think that had anything to do with Harry's O; I think she was just disappointed that she didn't get straight O's. Compare back to OotP, when she's not only candid that Harry outscored her on Lupin's DADA exam but also used that to encourage him and prove that he was excelling more than she was.
But now to get back on the topic of Ron...
---quote--- He withdraw becasue Hermione presents him with unpleasant facts, that he deep down knows is true.
Ron has issues with Hermione beeing smarter than he is. ---end quote---
Precisely. Both Harry and Ron become irritated because they know she's right. The big difference is that Harry's sulking usually ends with an acceptance, however grudging, of that fact. Ron usually retaliates by belittling Hermione's strengths. He's going to have to overcome that if their relationship is going to advance, either as better friends or as something more.
The One - Feb 24, 2006 6:52 am (#1761 of 1957)
Both Harry and Ron become irritated because they know she's right.
That is not my impression.
Ron get irritated because she knows. Harry does not.
Ron gets irrateted by the very fact that she is "better" than she is. We see that in his attempts to belittle her strenght, even in situations where he is not confronted with unpleasant facts. Like his slur on her Boggart as being a piece of homework scoring 9 out of 10, his reactions to her quoting "Hogwarts, A history " all the time.
Harry reacts badly, not because he has problems with her being right, but because he does not like the world as presented by Hermione. He never berates Hermione for beeing a know-it-all, as does Ron, because he never has any problem with Hermione beeing smart. But lika most of us, Harry does avoid reality at times, when reality get to harsh. And that sometimes includes avoiding Hermione.
Weeny Owl - Feb 24, 2006 9:28 am (#1762 of 1957)
I come from a long line of academic overachievers, and while most of them are fairly easy-going about it, one or two are just like Hermione, and they can be irritating beyond belief.
I don't think Ron belittles her exactly. I think he admires her, but at the same time, her constant harping about things gets annoying. Harry's feelings are the same at times but his outward reactions are the difference. He retreats while Ron doesn't.
It isn't just her academic achievements but also her insistence that people agree with her on issues such as house-elves.
Hermione even tries manipulation, such as when she brings up Quidditch, and this time she annoyed Ginny and Ginny told her to stop pretending she cared about it or she would embarrass herself.
I don't see that Ron's reactions to Hermione are any different than anyone else's, but while he might make the odd comment on occasion, most of the time he seems to be more amused than anything.
ema fewett - Feb 24, 2006 1:17 pm (#1763 of 1957)
Here here Weeny Owl!!
Caius Iulius - Feb 25, 2006 4:35 am (#1764 of 1957)
I don't think Ron and Hermione are that different in things that matter. And what matters is a war against Voldemort who might destroy their world and everything good in it. They also agree on the pure blood issue being ridiculous. It is only on smaller and daily issues they disagree.
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 25, 2006 8:57 am (#1765 of 1957)
Very true, Caius Iulius. However, that's where the problem comes: while they make a great team in their "working" relationship, it's the daily interaction that matters most in a personal relationship.
As a part of a trio of friends, Hermione and Ron get along wonderfully. One thing that's always bothered me is that they both seem to be friends more because of "we both like hanging out with Harry (and Ginny, Neville, etc.) and don't mind one another's company," rather than "we're both really good friends and we have other mutual really close friends." It's their one-on-one relationship that needs a fair bit of work, as I always get the feelingthat without Harry between them they'd be just "friendly peers." They know each other well and they like one another, but they lack another step of appreciation for one another's presence in their lives.
frogface - Feb 25, 2006 9:44 am (#1766 of 1957)
Oh I don't know about that. While Harry remains at the centre of the trio (and the story) I think they have a pretty strong friendship. They stayed together without Harry for weeks during their summer in OotP before school. And Ron confided in Hermione when he and Harry fell out in GoF. Plus Hermione is willing to break rules for Ron (confounding quidditch rivals hehe) I think that speak volumes about the true nature of their relationship. Alot of it is buried beneath silly bickering and the want to hide their true feelings for each other.
Mediwitch - Feb 25, 2006 8:26 pm (#1767 of 1957)
It's important to remember that we are seeing their relationship from Harry's perspective, also. Harry is not the most emotionally astute teenager, nor is he particularly observant of other people. I think HE has just not noticed Ron's and Hermione's relationship, except the bickering, because it got on his nerves. Ron and Hermione do spend a lot of time together that Harry is not privvy to...as prefects (i.e. on the train), when Harry is doing lessons with Dumbledore, the four years' worth of Quidditch practices before Ron made the team...
Lina - Feb 26, 2006 3:49 am (#1768 of 1957)
I'd just like to remember the moment when the trio became friends - it was their battle with the Troll. Before that battle Ron noticed Hermione already. I don't think he would be bothered by her know-it-all-ness if he didn't care for her and admire her already. Ron and Harry became friends in the train, but Hermione became friend to both of them, not just to Harry. On the contrary, I'd say that Harry entered that friendship by accident, just because he was already friend with Ron. It was Ron who hurt Hermione and made her cry.
The other thing that I would like to mention is the fact that Hermione has no problems in hugging Harry. Whenever they celebrate something. Because this is a friendly hug and they both know it. But she doesn't feel comfortable Hugging Ron the same way. I'd call it a hint.
Caius Iulius: It is only on smaller and daily issues they disagree.
... as all couples do.
I'd just mention one more thing: Ron freaked up when Malfoy called Hermione Moodblood. It has nothing to do with their friendship with Harry.
ex-FAHgeek - Feb 26, 2006 7:41 am (#1769 of 1957)
Edited by Feb 26, 2006 7:48 am
---quote--- Ron freaked up when Malfoy called Hermione Moodblood. ---end quote---
As did Angelina Johnson, the Weasley twins, and everyone else outside of Slytherin who knew what the word meant.
---quote--- On the contrary, I'd say that Harry entered that friendship by accident, just because he was already friend with Ron. It was Ron who hurt Hermione and made her cry. ---end quote---
Harry, however, was the one who thought about warning her. Ron couldn't have cared less until Harry brought up the point.
And Hermione was in the bathroom crying because Ron was mean to her and, to put it quite bluntly, borderline despised her at that point. It was the troll incident that made him consider her a peer rather than an annoyance.
Lina - Feb 26, 2006 8:42 am (#1770 of 1957)
# Let's put it the other way: Would Hermione be crying if someone else were mean to her?
# Would Ron be so mean with someone whom he didn't notice?
I think not.
Mrs. Sirius - Feb 27, 2006 9:23 pm (#1771 of 1957)
(H)e he he Lina. I agree, and I think the first place Ron and Hermione "noticed" each other was on the train. Hermione was looking at Ron, to notice he had dirt, on his nose. Yes, I know they were young and at that point, but she noticed.
The One - Feb 27, 2006 9:37 pm (#1772 of 1957)
Let's put it the other way:
# Would Hermione be crying if someone else were mean to her?
# Would Ron be so mean with someone whom he didn't notice?
1. Yes, most probably. At that point she was a loneley, insecure unpopular geek, and Ron very forcefully reminded her of that fact.
2. No, but if at that point the only thing he noticed about her was that she was horrible, he very well might. Teenagers do sometimes simply dislike each other, it is not so that any dislike among tenagers is hidden love.
frogface - Feb 28, 2006 3:34 am (#1773 of 1957)
I'd have to disagree with you there The One. I think its very common for children and teenagers to hide attraction beneath a pretence of dislike. And from the word go it struck me that that is what was happening with Hermione and Ron.
The One - Feb 28, 2006 7:23 am (#1774 of 1957)
I never said that it is not common. I only say that it is not the only possible explanation.
Boy meets girls. Girl behaves like a prat. Boys get extremly annoyed. Girl gets hurt that boy is so annoyed.
Conclusion: Boy and girl is falling in love. Yes, it is pssible, but it does not have to be so.
To me Ron is a boy that has strong problems with insecurity and beeing overshadowed. We see him complain about his siblings and about poverty. We see him have a fallout with Harry over it. There is no reason at all that he will not also have issues with Hermione, whether in love or not.
Pinky Prime - Feb 28, 2006 7:30 am (#1775 of 1957)
Ron was hugging Hermione at DD's funeral they didn't appear to be ashamed then. He was stroking her hair (more comfortable touching her as he gets older). They were crying on each others shoulders not the trio together.
The line is drawn, Ron is okay as far as anyone else is concerned as being an appropiate match for Hermione. (The whole Weasely Lot are supposed to be Blood Traitors) Whereas, with Harry and Hermione all the hate mail Hermione received shows us people are not so keen to see them as a couple (even Mrs. Weasley).
P.S. I think that the sorting hat should have said Ron had a real thirst to prove himself as it told Harry. As his confidence over insecurity and poverty improve he will get the nerve to confront Hermione. Even James and Lily had many disagreements.
Mrs. Sirius - Mar 3, 2006 10:25 pm (#1776 of 1957)
I just noticed in SS that when Ron puts on the sorting hat, it quickly screams out "Gryffindor"! Just as it barely touched Malfoy's head and screamed Slytherin. Whatever else there is no question that Ron has always had the courage.
Die Zimtzicke - Mar 7, 2006 9:46 am (#1777 of 1957)
Yes, Hermione noticed Ron had dirt on his nose, so she was aware of him when they were very young, but Harry noticed Luna had a smudge of earth on her nose when she came out of the greenhouse, so I don't know how far that should go. This isn't the shipping thread.
Ron does have feelings of insecurity, but it's always, since the Mirror of Erised, had to do with him proving himself special for who he is. All of his friends can help him with that, especially Harry.
Ron was Jo's way of introducing Harry to the Wizarding World, and to Wizarding families, but Ron will always be the person who matters most to Harry, just as he was in the lake during the 2nd task. Harry liked Hermione still being his friend when he and Ron were fighting, but he admitted he didn't have as much fun with her. When he wanted to date Ginny, he was more worried about how Ron would take it than he was about if Ginny were still interested in him, after Hermione had told him she supposedly had given up on Harry. Ginny never did, but Harry didn't know that.
For Harry, Ron will always be his best mate, no matter what else happens in their lives.
cindysuewho45 - Apr 2, 2006 10:05 pm (#1778 of 1957)
Hi all, I like Ron alot in the books. But I wish that they did not take his lines away from him in the movies. It makes him look not so smart, and as the books come to a end, he may need to help out and use some smarts. Now we who have read the books will go for it, but if you have only seen the movies. You could not go along with him helping to save the day. I hope that they start giving Ron more credit.
K Stahl - Apr 5, 2006 2:05 pm (#1779 of 1957)
I have noticed it also. It is not simply that Ron does not get justice in the movies; Harry also looses lines in what I have come to think of as the ‘Hermionization’ of the characters. This was first obvious to me in the Prisoner of Azkaban movie where it was Hermione and not Harry who figured out what Dumbledore wanted with the extra three hours. Harry was also the one who moved them out of the way of Lupin. In the first movie, Ron kept his cool even as the Devils Snare entangled him. Hermione was the one who was flustered.
These changes serve to elevate the character of Hermione at the expense of the other characters such as Harry and Ron.
I attribute it to the fact that the screenplays for all four movies were written by Steve Kloves. I could be wrong about this. Perhaps it was a conspiracy at Warner.
Choices - Apr 5, 2006 5:32 pm (#1780 of 1957)
....and when it became Ron who was flustered over the Devil's Snare instead of Hermione, we lost that great line: "HAVE YOU GONE MAD?" Ron bellowed. ARE YOU A WITCH OR NOT?"
Mediwitch - Apr 5, 2006 6:47 pm (#1781 of 1957)
That is my absolute favorite "Ron" line...and one of my all-time favorite lines! Smile I think Ron is really a hoot, and I agree with Situ KaiDa about the ‘Hermionization’ of the films.
Soul Search - Apr 5, 2006 8:14 pm (#1782 of 1957)
I have noticed a lot of switching of lines in the movies, especially PoA and Gof, but I hadn't noted that Hermione was the favored recipient of other characters' lines. I think there is something to it. No idea why that would be, though.
One, sort of, that I particularly noted was towards the end of PoA. A major theme of PoA was Harry learning about his father. He practically gushed every time someone compared him to James. As Sirius is leaving on Buckbeak, he says to Harry "you are your father's son." Rather made Harry's day. But in the movie, Sirius says Hermione is the greatest witch of her age. This was Lupin's line, in the shack.
Why trade an important line about Harry for one about Hermione; Sirius didn't even know Hermione; he had no basis for the statement!
I am thinking most of the complaints I have about the movies derive first from the screen play, more than anything else.
Finn BV - Apr 6, 2006 4:16 pm (#1783 of 1957)
Guys, if we could steer the topic back on to Ron in the books… For movies, there is the folder set up down near the bottom of the main page.
haymoni - Apr 6, 2006 5:07 pm (#1784 of 1957)
I'd really like to see some real magic from Ron in Book 7.
Finn BV - Apr 6, 2006 5:14 pm (#1785 of 1957)
I agree. Ron's been showing the real "history" side of wizarding – being able to assist in all wizard family matters – but no real "practical" side.
It's like the graduation requirement for arts at my high school. You have to take at least one art appreciation/history and one art studio/performance, and Ron's only really done the former.
Pinky Prime - Apr 20, 2006 7:24 am (#1786 of 1957)
Somehow I don't see Ron as a MOM employee.
I don't see him joining any clubs like spew. He wants to be just as or more famous and richer than his siblings.
I'm not an employment specialist but I could see him as a treasure seeker. Adventure with the bravery of his Gryffindor heritage and the intellect of his chess playing mind I think he will go far to seek his fame and fortune from beyond Harry and Hermione's shadow.
The One - Apr 20, 2006 7:45 am (#1787 of 1957)
He wants to be just as or more famous and richer than his siblings.
I do not think so. It was his image in the mirror of erised, but I interpret that as a result if his insecurities.
Ron need to have the courage to ignore everyone else and find his place in life. If that means being a MoM official, then be it. If tha means being botha a curse breaker and a dragon expert, selling joke stuff in his spare time, than so be it, but it should be because that is what HE wants, not just becaase he feels the need to ba at least as spectacular as his brothers.
We see one of his steps in the direction of maturity in HBP when he suddenly declares his liking for Luna, he has suddenly got the courage to make up his own opinion about her, instead of avoiding her because everyone else thinks she is an oddball.
journeymom - Apr 20, 2006 7:50 am (#1788 of 1957)
Remind me when Ron states he likes Luna? I simply don't remember the circumstances.
Holly T. - Apr 20, 2006 7:58 am (#1789 of 1957)
Isn't it when he's in the hospital wing, after he's listened to her commentary on the Quidditch match?
azi - Apr 20, 2006 8:04 am (#1790 of 1957)
I think this is what we're looking for...
UK edition, HBP, chapter 'Lord Voldemort's Request', page 398, Ron's speaking.
'You know, she's grown on me, Luna,' he said as they set off again for the Great Hall. 'I know she's insane, but it's in a good-'
Cue Lavender looking very annoyed! Hope this helps. I thought there was something more obvious, so will keep looking.
Die Zimtzicke - Apr 22, 2006 7:09 pm (#1791 of 1957)
I think Ron's gotten more used to Luna and sees her as an ally (Odd, since they are neighbors and you'd think he'd already know her) but I don't think he likes her very much. Even when he was out of his head in OotP, he was still calling her loony . It's deep in his subconcious that he thinks she's weird. I think he doesn't mind her anymore, but he'll never really LIKE her.
And I don't think she really likes Ron either, although she doesn't dislike him. In OotP when he snapped at her that she had a rubbish sense of humor, she was "unperturbed".If someone you really liked snapped at you like that, would you be unperturbed? I wouldn't. I'd be crushed.
I'm glad she's grown on Ron, though, even if he does think she's insane, because I think she'll be back in book seven more than she was in book six and Ron'll have to interact with her at least somewhat.
Choices - Apr 23, 2006 11:05 am (#1792 of 1957)
I think I would be crushed too, but Luna is a whole different story. She more or less lives in her own little world. I know several couples that started out disliking each other and ended up happily married.
rambkowalczyk - Apr 23, 2006 4:46 pm (#1793 of 1957)
Actually in book 5 Luna seemed to have a fascination for Ron. On the train she told Ron that Padma didn't like being ignored and she laughed hysterically at a joke Ron made about Crabbe or Goyle.
Die Zimtzicke - Apr 24, 2006 10:08 am (#1794 of 1957)
Looking at someone as if they were a mildly interesting televison program doesn't seem like a fascination to me. Her reactions to everything are not what you would expect, though. I agree with that. If you want to say Luna liked Ron, there's some evidence for it, alhtough I don't see much of it, but there is no evidence Ron ever liked her until he made the comment about her growing on him, but still being insane.
I know people can start out disliking each other, and get married. Lily did tell James at one point she'd rather date the Giant Squid, after all, but Jo said in her Mugglenet/Leaky Cauldron interview that we now know it's Ron and Hermione, and she gave "anvil" sized hints for it. That pretty much kills Ron/Anything else for me. Jo misleads, but she doesn't outright lie. I've never caught her outright lying.
rambkowalczyk - Apr 26, 2006 5:10 am (#1795 of 1957)
What I consider to be Luna's fascination with Ron only existed in OOP. By the beginning of book 6, she seems to outgrown it. (maybe because she doesn't want the object of her fantasies insulting her.) If JKR did write Luna as having a crush on Ron, what it might mean is that Ron is cute (or desirable)in his own right not just because he is Harry's friend. Notice that neither Luna nor Lavender used Ron as a means to get to Harry. The way Ron sees himself is not the way other people see him.
The One - Apr 26, 2006 5:29 am (#1796 of 1957)
I think that in OotP Luna does behave a bit strangely with respect to Harry. I think she had a crush. In HBP we do not see anything of it, we suu that Luna says that Ron is funny, but a bit cruek at times. We do see Ron starting to like Luna, but we see no reason to assume that this liking is of romantic nature.
Still, my gut feeling tells me that this interactions does mean something. They are just a tiny bit to weird to be there for nothing. I also doubt that Luna's facination with Ron was there to show that Ron is growing to be an attractive young man in general, if that was the point would she used the weirdest girl at school?
My guess is that we will see some Luna/Ron interaction of some kind in book 7. My gut feeling tells me what we have seen so far is pointing forward.
frogface - Apr 26, 2006 8:36 am (#1797 of 1957)
It may point towards them being vast friends, which would show a lot of growth in Ron's character. I doubt anything romantic would ever happen between them though, I'm certain Ron is for Hermione now.
Honour - Jul 15, 2006 4:29 am (#1798 of 1957)
Hopefully in book 7 Ron will return being a little more mature, a little less angry, and for his own sake a more confident young man who is able to accept Hermione for her intelligence, her forth rightedness, and all the little Hermione-isms that drive him up the wall, and cherish the young woman who looks upon him affectionately.
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 15, 2006 5:58 am (#1799 of 1957)
Since Jo told us, yes, it's Ron and Hermione, and if we didn't see that we need to go back and reread, I think the best we can hope for with Luna is for Ron, and a lot of other people, by the way, to appreciate her more than they do now. She's the only person from another house to crack Harry's inner circle, and we need that inter-house unity we've been waiting for.
I still think it's odd, though, that there are only four wizarding families around Ron's village, and he acted like he didn't even know Luna when we met her in OotP. Didn't the Ron's family EVER interact with anyone outside of the family socially?
Catherine - Jul 15, 2006 6:07 am (#1800 of 1957)
Edited Jul 15, 2006 7:08 am
I got the sense that the Lovegoods and the Weasleys don't share the physical proximity that we might experience in the city or in suburban neighborhoods.
Mr. Lovegood doesn't work at the Ministry, and Arthur seems to work long hours, which inhibits time for socializing. Mrs. Lovegood has been dead for year, sadly for Luna and her father. It is interesting that Ginny and Luna never seemed to socialize until Hogwarts. Maybe the absence of Mrs. Lovegood along with Luna's father's career sidetracked their socializing with other wizarding families.
The Weasleys seem to be pretty "sufficient unto themselves" socially. Cedric is "in between" Percy and the twins age-wise. Mrs. Weasley seems familiar friendly to Mr. Diggory in Go (she is on a first name basis); perhaps they did socialize, and we just don't know.
Back to Ron, I think he grew up playing with brothers, not other wizard children. That's probably one reason why he seems so conscious of his "place" among his brothers.
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Die Zimtzicke - Jul 15, 2006 6:14 am (#1801 of 1957)
I don't like Molly, but I can certainly see her wanting to check in on and fuss over the poor motherless family down the road or across the village, or whatever. That would not be out of character for her.
I still think it's unusual that Ron didn't give us the impression of knowing Luna a bit better.
Czarina II - Jul 15, 2006 8:31 pm (#1802 of 1957)
Maybe Ginny and Luna (who seemed to know each other in OoP) played together as children, but Ron, being a boy, did not partake in such playdates. I could see Molly sending Ginny over to the Lovegoode house to play with Luna while she kept an eye on the boys. Ron is very attuned to his relationship with his brothers, but while he obviously was close to his sister, she has a very different status in the family and perhaps she spent girl-time with Luna, but I could see Ron not knowing her.
Soul Search - Jul 16, 2006 6:31 am (#1803 of 1957)
What with the Floo Network and apparating, I am not sure geographic proximity would play much of a role in determining socializing groups in the wizarding world.
That said, I can't recall any references among any students that would suggest they knew each other before they came to Hogwarts, except Draco/Crabbe/Goyle. Even that is implicit, more than stated.
Nor among adults. We do have the pictures Hagrid gave Harry, including some wedding pictures. Moody's "old order" picture implies some kind of gettogether. There is some socializing at #12 Grimmauld Place, but that seems as a consequence of the Order, rather than any "old friends getting together for dinner" socializing. Hagrid does visit Hogsmeade, and perhaps the Leaky Cauldron, now and again. Maybe most non-family socializing in the wizarding world occurs in public places.
I more intrepreted the lack of social references as "not important to the storyline" rather than any lack of socializing in the wizarding world.
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 16, 2006 4:54 pm (#1804 of 1957)
I can't picture Molly sending Ginny over to play with Luna after her mother died. I don't think she'd trust a grieving dad to babysit two small girls. I think if they ever played, it was before Mrs. Lovegood died.
haymoni- Jul 17, 2006 3:51 am (#1805 of 1957)
I wonder if it is more of a safety issue.
There aren't that many wizards in the world and they have to keep their actions hidden.
They probably don't do much congregating, which is why places like Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade are so important to them.
Ponine - Jul 19, 2006 9:44 pm (#1806 of 1957)
haymoni -- I think you have some good points concerning safety. Also; I hate to be cruel, but Luna is weird. If there was a weird boy living in my general area, wizard or not, I would have hated to be forced to play with her as a child. Frankly, I probably would have freaked. Cooties and all that. Even as a teen, Harry is not exactly proud of his association with her (although I'm please to say we have both since grown up a bit ). And as far as Molly is concerned -- bless her heart, I think she is a good-hearted woman, but I don't think she would necessarily approve of the editor (?) of The Quibbler...
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 20, 2006 7:56 am (#1807 of 1957)
How is Luna that weird that she isn't fit for Ron to associte with? She has done nothing but be helpful, even if she didn't have the direct connection to the cause that others do. She's never said a nasty thing aboutr anyone, which is more than I can say for other characters. Even when she said Ron could be cruel at times, she was tactful about it, and only stated the truth.
I can see him not wanting to play with a girl, but she seems to me that she would have been just like any other girl to him. He certainly wouldn't have been any postiion to think her clothes were weird, since he got hand-me-downs.
haymoni- Jul 20, 2006 8:26 am (#1808 of 1957)
I can appreciate Luna - mostly because she put Hermione in her place - and because I am older & can appreciate someone who is willing to be original and doesn't care what other people think.
However, I could see her being considered one of the weirdos at school.
Sure, she's nice, but even Harry is hesitant because she says and believes such odd things.
People take her belongings - how cruel is that? Even Neville didn't want to sit with her. Ginny has enough sense of self to not care, but most people find Luna odd and I think she makes them uncomfortable.
I don't know that Luna's clothes are weird - it is more like how she puts things together - or maybe it is just her accessories!
Choices - Jul 20, 2006 11:37 am (#1809 of 1957)
We all have known a "Luna" sometime in our life. I think she is in the story to teach kids that just because someone is a bit different, doesn't mean they aren't nice or worth knowing. I love Luna's character - she teaches us to empathize and be more accepting of people. Getting to know her has been a good thing for Ron, Harry, Hermione, Ginny and Neville. Luna's line about the DA being almost like having friends, just breaks my heart.
haymoni- Jul 20, 2006 11:40 am (#1810 of 1957)
Every time, Choices, every time.
I still think these people lived too far away from each other for their kids to really become playmates.
Choices - Jul 20, 2006 11:56 am (#1811 of 1957)
Edited Jul 20, 2006 12:57 pm
I agree haymoni . I think it is also about being part of a big family. The kids play with each other and have no need to go outside the family unit to seek playmates. That explains the Weasleys, but I don't know about other families where there are only children - like the Lovegoods and the Diggorys. I get the feeling (and this may be just me, so I may be totally wrong) that wizards, as a whole, are not overly social.
Ponine - Jul 20, 2006 2:51 pm (#1812 of 1957)
Choices (post 1799), I couldn't agree with you more. Luna is an interesting character, and despite/because of her quirky nature, she is probably one of the most three-dimensional, touching characters in the books in my opinion. And the DA line gets me every time, too...
Regan of Gong - Jul 21, 2006 4:39 am (#1813 of 1957)
Oh, I laugh at that line...but in a kind of sad way.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 26, 2006 10:10 am (#1814 of 1957)
Luna is one of my favorite characters. She showed an interest in Ron for who he is not because of his family, or friends. I liked the different insight into Ron. Especially the humor part. That line about almost having friends gets to me also. I was so proud of Harry for asking her to the party. LPO
Ydnam96 - Aug 21, 2006 6:31 pm (#1815 of 1957)
Just to throw my hat in...
I agree that wizarding families seem to stay pretty much to themselves. It may have something to do with the Statute of Secrecy (is that what it's called?). Too many wizarding kids in one area could be a danger (I'm thinking of the World Cup with little two year olds whizzing around on brooms and blowing up slugs). But I could be wrong.
I think specifically with the Weasleys it had more to do with the number of children they had...I think it was probably a lot easier to for Molly to just keep her kids in line...not to mention anyone other's children. I mean, Fred and George alone would be a handful.
painting sheila - Sep 5, 2006 9:33 am (#1816 of 1957)
After reading on another thread about the chess/lay out of the plot theory - I have a sick feeling that Ron will not make it through all of the last book.
Ron sacrifices himself so Harry can move forward and face Voldemort.
Some one PLEASE talk me out of this!!
haymoni - Sep 5, 2006 9:43 am (#1817 of 1957)
I am holding on to JKR's dinner companion list. She listed the Trio right away and then stalled because she knew who was going to die.
If she didn't care about who was going to die when she first named the Trio, she would have just continued naming names.
So... I am clinging to that as evidence that the Trio will survive.
It isn't much to be sure, but you did ask to be talked out of it.
I am only trying to oblige!
journeymom - Sep 5, 2006 10:23 am (#1818 of 1957)
Chess/lay out of the plot theory:
My take is that Ron was representing Dumbledore in the game. And now, assuming you believe that Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, Dumbledore has sacrificed himself so Harry can get ahead in the 'real' game.
I don't think Ron will die because of the chess game in PS. I don't think he will die at all, so there you have it!
Ann - Sep 5, 2006 10:35 am (#1819 of 1957)
A question for this thread: what's the deal with the watch Ron got for his coming of age birthday? It's "a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around the edge and tiny moving stars instead of hands"--you'd think Hermione would be really interested in it. He gets it, and then he eats the love potion, and we never hear another word about it. I'm assuming it's a pocket watch (since "heavy" isn't a positive adjective with wristwatches). Lexicon says it's like Dumbledore's, but not exactly.
I won't get into the "Ron is Dumbledore" theory, since I know people hate it but the watch itself is interesting. Why would the Weasleys, who are poor, give Ron such an expensive present? Is it an heirloom? And does he just know how to use it, or does he have to learn? It sounds tricky. And a fancy gold pocket-watch seems very not-Ron. Does he have a watch at all before? (I seem to remember that Harry's was broken in GoF and he was always asking people the time. Was Ron one who answered him?) It just seems a very weird thing, especially if he's not Dumbledore. Anyone have any ideas about this?
haymoni- Sep 5, 2006 10:46 am (#1820 of 1957)
I figured the Weasleys were probably feeling less of a squeeze money-wise with the Twins out of the house.
Perhaps it was an heirloom, but I think Ron may have mentioned that.
Perhaps with times being what they are, Arthur & Molly aren't saving for a rainy day - it's pouring now, so they want to give their children what they can.
It certainly sounds like an interesting watch. Any magical gadgets are interesting.
journeymom - Sep 5, 2006 10:53 am (#1821 of 1957)
I thought JKR dismissed the Ron-is-Dd-from-the-future theory.
Ron's watch is a truth measurer from another universe. ;-)
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 5, 2006 2:34 pm (#1822 of 1957)
I wonder if it has anything to do with Molly's clock?
I agree Journeymom, I'm sure JKR put a stop to that theory. LPO
Hoot Owl - Sep 5, 2006 3:34 pm (#1823 of 1957)
Not only are the twins out of the house and earning their own money, but Arthur got a promotion last summer. He is head of a larger department, I think a raise in salary went with it.
Also Ron's coming of age birthday is an important milestone. We have never read about his birthday before. In fact the only birthday we've seen the Weasleys celebrating is Harry's .
painting sheila - Sep 6, 2006 7:19 am (#1824 of 1957)
Why would Ron "represent" Dumbledore in the chess game when Harry and Hermione are only Harry and Hermione?
Steve Newton - Sep 6, 2006 7:23 am (#1825 of 1957)
Because he is directing the good guys.
I have also heard speculation that he represents Snape. I'm open to either but would not like to have to defend the position.
painting sheila - Sep 6, 2006 7:31 am (#1826 of 1957)
So where is Ron in the picture. I know Ron is representing Dumbledore - but what/who is representing Ron? Are we saying he won't be there for the final battle?
journeymom - Sep 6, 2006 8:53 am (#1827 of 1957)
I don't think I can defend the position well at all, but that's because you can stretch a game-to-real-life analogy only so far. I see no way of fitting Snape into the position that Ron played. I suppose next up Hermione will help Harry figure something out, or drink a potion for him. Like she did with Snape's potion puzzle in PS.
I read one chess analysis where Snape, LV's pawn, makes it across the board and turns into a second Queen (no snickering). Sorry, I can't remember what this move is called. As a loyal DE Snape goes to Dumbledore and pretends to repent. Dd gives him a teaching job, a job as a spy and defends him at Karkaroff's trial, thus turning Snape into a powerful Queen. Then 17 years later Snape-as-LV's-Queen takes Dumbledore (as Bishop?).
I love the idea, but hate it, too, because it requires Snape to be LV's man.
Die Zimtzicke - Sep 6, 2006 9:19 am (#1828 of 1957)
Jo once said (No, I don't remember where, but if anyone wants to look for it, this is the place!) that she was asked a lot about Ron. Her reply was something like, "As if I'd kill Harry's best friend!" I think she meant that. If it's him, I think he's one of the ones she changed her mind about, but I kind of doubt it, as firm as she's been about R/Hr.
As for him being in the final battle, I don't want anyone else there but Harry and Voldemort. Harry's the prophecy boy, It's his job to do and no one else's.
Ann - Sep 6, 2006 10:32 am (#1829 of 1957)
Edited Sep 6, 2006 11:36 am
Journeymom and LPO, she has said that Dumbledore is neither Harry nor Ron from the future. "NONE of the characters in the books has returned from the future." (It's on the Rumors page of her site.) But she's very careful in that refutation always to say "from the future"; the theory she's refuting is that Ron (or Harry) lives to a ripe old age, and then somehow has come back to help defeat Voldemort and change the outcome, taking on the role of Dumbledore. (She made it clear that this was the theory she was talking about in her post, saying she thinks people like this thoery, since it proves that Ron or Harry survive the final battle.) But this version of the theory never made much sense anyway, since we know that Dumbledore took N.E.W.T.s and he has a whole, long past, with Grindelwald and all that.
The real theory doesn't involve the future at all. It actually emerged from the chess parallel. (See the Knight2King site for details, although most of the people who invented the theory seem to have abandoned it when she posted that note.) As I understand it, though, the projected story line is that Ron (and presumably one of his brothers, to explain Aberforth) will be thrown back into the past, and then will become Dumbledore. There's all sorts of evidence: both are tall, with red (Auburn) hair and blue eyes; both are mad about sweets, share Arthur's love of Muggles, tell very silly jokes, and have a scar on one leg. Some of the evidence is quite ingenious. (Bertie Bott was born in 1935, and presumably invented Every-Flavor Beans sometime after he was 20 or so. Dumbledore said in PS/SS 17 that he was put off them by a vomit flavored one he'd had "in my youth"--though he'd have been over a century old by the time they were invented.)
And now they both have gold pocketwatches with weird symbols. And JKR seems to have buried the watch really quickly, never mentioning it again. And it seems really uncharacteristic. I mean, if Arthur and Molly had extra money, you'd think they'd buy Ron something he really wanted. So I thought it was really interesting. If it's not a clue, I don't quite understand why it's there.
I'm not quite as sure about this theory as I was, though, not because of her Rumors page, but because Dumbledore is really dead. I don't think she'd do that. But we'll see. (I hope!)
legolas returns - Sep 6, 2006 11:41 am (#1830 of 1957)
Arthur was promoted so I guess he would have been given a pay rise and only 2 kids were living at home.
Ron was really pleased with the watch. I think the watch is a symbolic thing. Rather like in the olden days when you were 21 you were given the keys to the house.
painting sheila - Sep 6, 2006 12:39 pm (#1831 of 1957)
Maybe the watch is a Mini-Molly Clock. It tells you when you are in danger - or when your loved ones are in danger.
I would have thought I had a cleare view at this point of what was going where inthe story - but I am more confused than before ----AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
(whew! I feel better)
cindysuewho45 - Oct 27, 2006 7:14 am (#1832 of 1957)
Hi all,I love the Ron in the books, and I also feel that the actor who plays Ron in the movies, is the best! But I wish they give Ron his lines and stop giving them to Hermione or whoever. JKR did a great job with Ron. He is great at strategy and thinking things through, in the long term. He is funny, caring and a good guy to have around. I have found myself wondering about Ron and or his mom. I feel that one or the other may die in book 7. Bad things things happen in war. And the interview with JKR, about her talking to her husband, and him saying, Oh......NO....! You can not do that! Then she says something like, so I did. Makes me wonder if it may not be the end of someone we love and we love Ron. I know that Ron will always be there for Harry when it counts! And I like it that Ron and Hermione will be together, I think going into book 7. I'm looking forward to as much of Ron as I can get in book 7! I feel that Molly will have a cow when Ron takes off with Harry this comming summer. But I also feel that she will be happy when Ron acts like he is going back to school.(He will be looking for Horcruxes at Hogwarts), but at lest he will be at school. And that will make his mom happy.
Die Zimtzicke - Oct 27, 2006 3:58 pm (#1833 of 1957)
I love Ron, in the books and the movies, and I agree that they should play to his strengths in the films. Maybe we should take this to the film threads and bring it up again.
But Ron in the books is such a complex, wonderful character with such clear motivations. He wants, as I see it, to be recognized for himself, but he's still insecure about where he stands in the scheme of things. He's just so basically sweet.
cindysuewho45 - Oct 31, 2006 8:01 pm (#1834 of 1957)
Hi all, and Die I agree with you about Ron. I wish that there was a thread that the movie writers looked at, so they could get the idea of letting Ron keep more of his lines. I would love for Ron to be recognized for doing something for the school etc.. Something that his dad and mom will be proud of him for. Or end up being Head Boy, something like that. But he may not be at Hogwarts at the start of school. Although I firmly believe he will end up there soon.
S.E. Jones - Oct 31, 2006 9:33 pm (#1835 of 1957)
If we want to discuss how the character of Ron is portrayed in the movies and further, we should take the discussion to one of the movie threads. Thanks.
--I would love for Ron to be recognized for doing something for the school etc.. Something that his dad and mom will be proud of him for.--
Didn't Ron get an award for service to the school at the end of PS?
shadzar - Nov 1, 2006 1:24 am (#1836 of 1957)
Cos, him and Harry did, but was it anything like a plaque, or just the 200 points each to the house?
Laura W - Nov 1, 2006 1:31 am (#1837 of 1957)
CoS, Chapter 18, p.243 (Raincoast):
"... Dumbledore went on, smiling, 'You will both receive Special Awards for Services to the School and - let me see - yes, I think two hundred points apiece for Gryffindor.' "
Ydnam96 - Dec 3, 2006 12:43 pm (#1838 of 1957)
So that means he and Harry should both have plaques in the trophy room. Tom got one for the whole basilisk thing when he was in school (even though he caused all the problems and blamed them on Hagrid).
painting sheila - Dec 12, 2006 8:20 pm (#1839 of 1957)
Off the beaten path here -
What is in the core of Ron's wand?
Hoot Owl - Dec 12, 2006 8:34 pm (#1840 of 1957)
Unicorn Hair
painting sheila - Dec 16, 2006 6:57 pm (#1841 of 1957)
Thanks!
Another oii the path question - Why do Harry's, ron's and Hermione's wands make a "complete set" or complete each other?
Ollivander's Apprentice - Dec 16, 2006 7:45 pm (#1842 of 1957)
The trio's wands are a "complete set" in the sense that all of the cores Ollivander uses in the construction of wands have been used: Unicorn Hair (Ron), Dragon Heartstring (Hermione), Phoenix Feather (Harry).
Is there further (magical/plot) significance to this "completion"?
Steve Newton - Dec 17, 2006 6:57 am (#1843 of 1957)
I can't think of any but I'm betting that the Alchemy folks can. Or, probably, have. Alas, I gave up reading the Alchemy thread long ago, too many posts and too many things that I want to know more about.
S.E. Jones - Dec 17, 2006 2:35 pm (#1844 of 1957)
Maybe this line of discussion should be taken to the Alchemy thread then?
TomProffitt - Jan 6, 2007 4:45 am (#1845 of 1957)
I was re-reading PS/SS last night and came to the Mirror of Erised. (US version, soft cover, pp212 & 213.)
It dawned on me that it is very possible that Harry was not discovered by Dumbledore's ability to turn invisible without a cloak, but by the more simple means of Ron ratting him out. The sequence is very quick in the book, Harry won't eat, Ron asks Harry not to go back, Harry won't say he won't go back, Harry is caught, Dumbledore knows what Harry & Ron both saw in the mirror. Seems to me that Ron was afraid for his friend and did the right thing.
haymoni - Jan 6, 2007 5:48 am (#1846 of 1957)
That is possible, but why would Dumbledore go on to say that he doesn't need a cloak to be invisible?
I just don't see a second-year Ronald Weasley approaching the Headmaster with this kind of information.
TomProffitt - Jan 6, 2007 5:57 am (#1847 of 1957)
haymoni , the quote by Dumbledore would be a way to protect "his source." It was also first year student, Ron. Did he go directly to Dumbledore or tell someone else who told, Dumbledore? I don't know. It would be nice if Dumbledore were a little more "all knowing," but having Ron seek help for a friend is a better story I think. I'll ask Jo next time I have her over for tea.
haymoni- Jan 6, 2007 6:05 am (#1848 of 1957)
You are correct - smack my hand for forgetting what book I was in!
I guess I just like thinking that Dumbledore is greater than most.
I'd like an invite for that tea with Jo!
Laura W - Jan 6, 2007 11:38 pm (#1849 of 1957)
I seriously doubt if Ron would go to Dumbledore or any authority figure and tell on Harry, Tom. No canon for this - or for the theory that he did do so, for that matter -, but it just doesn't fit in with the Ron Jo has shown us (in my opinion).
Ron is hardly Hermoine when it comes to obeying rules and respecting teachers. It was she, and not he, who told McGonagall about the Firebolt after all. Ron, like Harry, was angry at her for doing so - although she did the right thing under the circumstances. Ron strikes me as being very like the boy Sirius Black in his flaunting of rules (eg - such as when he took the Ford Anglia in CoS, such as when he chucked the knife at his older brother in HBP, such as when he encouraged Harry to go to Hogsmede even though Harry was not permitted to in PoA, such as in not minding when he thought Harry illegally put his own name in the Goblet in GoF (what he *did* mind very much was that his best mate would not tell him how he did it and how he got away with it!), etc.). I just do not see Ron telling on Harry for anything; even when it would be in Harry's best interest for him to.
And I am among those who take Dumbledore's line, I don't need a cloak to become invisible," to mean just that. I think Dumbledore's powers are beyond that of most or all other wizards: "the greatest wizard of the age", as it says in chapter five of PoA. Heck, he says himself in OoP that he would be able to escape from Azkaban ("I have absolutely no intention of being sent to Azkaban. I could break out, of course - but what a waste of time,"), and it is stated in canon that no one else has ever been ever to do that (PoA, p.60, Raincoast). No one in *human* form, that is. (wink)
Laura
Choices - Jan 7, 2007 5:42 pm (#1850 of 1957)
I'm with haymoni and Laura.....I don't think loyal Ron would rat on Harry. No way. Hermione only told because she thought Harry was in real danger.
I don't like Molly, but I can certainly see her wanting to check in on and fuss over the poor motherless family down the road or across the village, or whatever. That would not be out of character for her.
I still think it's unusual that Ron didn't give us the impression of knowing Luna a bit better.
Czarina II - Jul 15, 2006 8:31 pm (#1802 of 1957)
Maybe Ginny and Luna (who seemed to know each other in OoP) played together as children, but Ron, being a boy, did not partake in such playdates. I could see Molly sending Ginny over to the Lovegoode house to play with Luna while she kept an eye on the boys. Ron is very attuned to his relationship with his brothers, but while he obviously was close to his sister, she has a very different status in the family and perhaps she spent girl-time with Luna, but I could see Ron not knowing her.
Soul Search - Jul 16, 2006 6:31 am (#1803 of 1957)
What with the Floo Network and apparating, I am not sure geographic proximity would play much of a role in determining socializing groups in the wizarding world.
That said, I can't recall any references among any students that would suggest they knew each other before they came to Hogwarts, except Draco/Crabbe/Goyle. Even that is implicit, more than stated.
Nor among adults. We do have the pictures Hagrid gave Harry, including some wedding pictures. Moody's "old order" picture implies some kind of gettogether. There is some socializing at #12 Grimmauld Place, but that seems as a consequence of the Order, rather than any "old friends getting together for dinner" socializing. Hagrid does visit Hogsmeade, and perhaps the Leaky Cauldron, now and again. Maybe most non-family socializing in the wizarding world occurs in public places.
I more intrepreted the lack of social references as "not important to the storyline" rather than any lack of socializing in the wizarding world.
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 16, 2006 4:54 pm (#1804 of 1957)
I can't picture Molly sending Ginny over to play with Luna after her mother died. I don't think she'd trust a grieving dad to babysit two small girls. I think if they ever played, it was before Mrs. Lovegood died.
haymoni- Jul 17, 2006 3:51 am (#1805 of 1957)
I wonder if it is more of a safety issue.
There aren't that many wizards in the world and they have to keep their actions hidden.
They probably don't do much congregating, which is why places like Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade are so important to them.
Ponine - Jul 19, 2006 9:44 pm (#1806 of 1957)
haymoni -- I think you have some good points concerning safety. Also; I hate to be cruel, but Luna is weird. If there was a weird boy living in my general area, wizard or not, I would have hated to be forced to play with her as a child. Frankly, I probably would have freaked. Cooties and all that. Even as a teen, Harry is not exactly proud of his association with her (although I'm please to say we have both since grown up a bit ). And as far as Molly is concerned -- bless her heart, I think she is a good-hearted woman, but I don't think she would necessarily approve of the editor (?) of The Quibbler...
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 20, 2006 7:56 am (#1807 of 1957)
How is Luna that weird that she isn't fit for Ron to associte with? She has done nothing but be helpful, even if she didn't have the direct connection to the cause that others do. She's never said a nasty thing aboutr anyone, which is more than I can say for other characters. Even when she said Ron could be cruel at times, she was tactful about it, and only stated the truth.
I can see him not wanting to play with a girl, but she seems to me that she would have been just like any other girl to him. He certainly wouldn't have been any postiion to think her clothes were weird, since he got hand-me-downs.
haymoni- Jul 20, 2006 8:26 am (#1808 of 1957)
I can appreciate Luna - mostly because she put Hermione in her place - and because I am older & can appreciate someone who is willing to be original and doesn't care what other people think.
However, I could see her being considered one of the weirdos at school.
Sure, she's nice, but even Harry is hesitant because she says and believes such odd things.
People take her belongings - how cruel is that? Even Neville didn't want to sit with her. Ginny has enough sense of self to not care, but most people find Luna odd and I think she makes them uncomfortable.
I don't know that Luna's clothes are weird - it is more like how she puts things together - or maybe it is just her accessories!
Choices - Jul 20, 2006 11:37 am (#1809 of 1957)
We all have known a "Luna" sometime in our life. I think she is in the story to teach kids that just because someone is a bit different, doesn't mean they aren't nice or worth knowing. I love Luna's character - she teaches us to empathize and be more accepting of people. Getting to know her has been a good thing for Ron, Harry, Hermione, Ginny and Neville. Luna's line about the DA being almost like having friends, just breaks my heart.
haymoni- Jul 20, 2006 11:40 am (#1810 of 1957)
Every time, Choices, every time.
I still think these people lived too far away from each other for their kids to really become playmates.
Choices - Jul 20, 2006 11:56 am (#1811 of 1957)
Edited Jul 20, 2006 12:57 pm
I agree haymoni . I think it is also about being part of a big family. The kids play with each other and have no need to go outside the family unit to seek playmates. That explains the Weasleys, but I don't know about other families where there are only children - like the Lovegoods and the Diggorys. I get the feeling (and this may be just me, so I may be totally wrong) that wizards, as a whole, are not overly social.
Ponine - Jul 20, 2006 2:51 pm (#1812 of 1957)
Choices (post 1799), I couldn't agree with you more. Luna is an interesting character, and despite/because of her quirky nature, she is probably one of the most three-dimensional, touching characters in the books in my opinion. And the DA line gets me every time, too...
Regan of Gong - Jul 21, 2006 4:39 am (#1813 of 1957)
Oh, I laugh at that line...but in a kind of sad way.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 26, 2006 10:10 am (#1814 of 1957)
Luna is one of my favorite characters. She showed an interest in Ron for who he is not because of his family, or friends. I liked the different insight into Ron. Especially the humor part. That line about almost having friends gets to me also. I was so proud of Harry for asking her to the party. LPO
Ydnam96 - Aug 21, 2006 6:31 pm (#1815 of 1957)
Just to throw my hat in...
I agree that wizarding families seem to stay pretty much to themselves. It may have something to do with the Statute of Secrecy (is that what it's called?). Too many wizarding kids in one area could be a danger (I'm thinking of the World Cup with little two year olds whizzing around on brooms and blowing up slugs). But I could be wrong.
I think specifically with the Weasleys it had more to do with the number of children they had...I think it was probably a lot easier to for Molly to just keep her kids in line...not to mention anyone other's children. I mean, Fred and George alone would be a handful.
painting sheila - Sep 5, 2006 9:33 am (#1816 of 1957)
After reading on another thread about the chess/lay out of the plot theory - I have a sick feeling that Ron will not make it through all of the last book.
Ron sacrifices himself so Harry can move forward and face Voldemort.
Some one PLEASE talk me out of this!!
haymoni - Sep 5, 2006 9:43 am (#1817 of 1957)
I am holding on to JKR's dinner companion list. She listed the Trio right away and then stalled because she knew who was going to die.
If she didn't care about who was going to die when she first named the Trio, she would have just continued naming names.
So... I am clinging to that as evidence that the Trio will survive.
It isn't much to be sure, but you did ask to be talked out of it.
I am only trying to oblige!
journeymom - Sep 5, 2006 10:23 am (#1818 of 1957)
Chess/lay out of the plot theory:
My take is that Ron was representing Dumbledore in the game. And now, assuming you believe that Snape killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, Dumbledore has sacrificed himself so Harry can get ahead in the 'real' game.
I don't think Ron will die because of the chess game in PS. I don't think he will die at all, so there you have it!
Ann - Sep 5, 2006 10:35 am (#1819 of 1957)
A question for this thread: what's the deal with the watch Ron got for his coming of age birthday? It's "a heavy gold watch with odd symbols around the edge and tiny moving stars instead of hands"--you'd think Hermione would be really interested in it. He gets it, and then he eats the love potion, and we never hear another word about it. I'm assuming it's a pocket watch (since "heavy" isn't a positive adjective with wristwatches). Lexicon says it's like Dumbledore's, but not exactly.
I won't get into the "Ron is Dumbledore" theory, since I know people hate it but the watch itself is interesting. Why would the Weasleys, who are poor, give Ron such an expensive present? Is it an heirloom? And does he just know how to use it, or does he have to learn? It sounds tricky. And a fancy gold pocket-watch seems very not-Ron. Does he have a watch at all before? (I seem to remember that Harry's was broken in GoF and he was always asking people the time. Was Ron one who answered him?) It just seems a very weird thing, especially if he's not Dumbledore. Anyone have any ideas about this?
haymoni- Sep 5, 2006 10:46 am (#1820 of 1957)
I figured the Weasleys were probably feeling less of a squeeze money-wise with the Twins out of the house.
Perhaps it was an heirloom, but I think Ron may have mentioned that.
Perhaps with times being what they are, Arthur & Molly aren't saving for a rainy day - it's pouring now, so they want to give their children what they can.
It certainly sounds like an interesting watch. Any magical gadgets are interesting.
journeymom - Sep 5, 2006 10:53 am (#1821 of 1957)
I thought JKR dismissed the Ron-is-Dd-from-the-future theory.
Ron's watch is a truth measurer from another universe. ;-)
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 5, 2006 2:34 pm (#1822 of 1957)
I wonder if it has anything to do with Molly's clock?
I agree Journeymom, I'm sure JKR put a stop to that theory. LPO
Hoot Owl - Sep 5, 2006 3:34 pm (#1823 of 1957)
Not only are the twins out of the house and earning their own money, but Arthur got a promotion last summer. He is head of a larger department, I think a raise in salary went with it.
Also Ron's coming of age birthday is an important milestone. We have never read about his birthday before. In fact the only birthday we've seen the Weasleys celebrating is Harry's .
painting sheila - Sep 6, 2006 7:19 am (#1824 of 1957)
Why would Ron "represent" Dumbledore in the chess game when Harry and Hermione are only Harry and Hermione?
Steve Newton - Sep 6, 2006 7:23 am (#1825 of 1957)
Because he is directing the good guys.
I have also heard speculation that he represents Snape. I'm open to either but would not like to have to defend the position.
painting sheila - Sep 6, 2006 7:31 am (#1826 of 1957)
So where is Ron in the picture. I know Ron is representing Dumbledore - but what/who is representing Ron? Are we saying he won't be there for the final battle?
journeymom - Sep 6, 2006 8:53 am (#1827 of 1957)
I don't think I can defend the position well at all, but that's because you can stretch a game-to-real-life analogy only so far. I see no way of fitting Snape into the position that Ron played. I suppose next up Hermione will help Harry figure something out, or drink a potion for him. Like she did with Snape's potion puzzle in PS.
I read one chess analysis where Snape, LV's pawn, makes it across the board and turns into a second Queen (no snickering). Sorry, I can't remember what this move is called. As a loyal DE Snape goes to Dumbledore and pretends to repent. Dd gives him a teaching job, a job as a spy and defends him at Karkaroff's trial, thus turning Snape into a powerful Queen. Then 17 years later Snape-as-LV's-Queen takes Dumbledore (as Bishop?).
I love the idea, but hate it, too, because it requires Snape to be LV's man.
Die Zimtzicke - Sep 6, 2006 9:19 am (#1828 of 1957)
Jo once said (No, I don't remember where, but if anyone wants to look for it, this is the place!) that she was asked a lot about Ron. Her reply was something like, "As if I'd kill Harry's best friend!" I think she meant that. If it's him, I think he's one of the ones she changed her mind about, but I kind of doubt it, as firm as she's been about R/Hr.
As for him being in the final battle, I don't want anyone else there but Harry and Voldemort. Harry's the prophecy boy, It's his job to do and no one else's.
Ann - Sep 6, 2006 10:32 am (#1829 of 1957)
Edited Sep 6, 2006 11:36 am
Journeymom and LPO, she has said that Dumbledore is neither Harry nor Ron from the future. "NONE of the characters in the books has returned from the future." (It's on the Rumors page of her site.) But she's very careful in that refutation always to say "from the future"; the theory she's refuting is that Ron (or Harry) lives to a ripe old age, and then somehow has come back to help defeat Voldemort and change the outcome, taking on the role of Dumbledore. (She made it clear that this was the theory she was talking about in her post, saying she thinks people like this thoery, since it proves that Ron or Harry survive the final battle.) But this version of the theory never made much sense anyway, since we know that Dumbledore took N.E.W.T.s and he has a whole, long past, with Grindelwald and all that.
The real theory doesn't involve the future at all. It actually emerged from the chess parallel. (See the Knight2King site for details, although most of the people who invented the theory seem to have abandoned it when she posted that note.) As I understand it, though, the projected story line is that Ron (and presumably one of his brothers, to explain Aberforth) will be thrown back into the past, and then will become Dumbledore. There's all sorts of evidence: both are tall, with red (Auburn) hair and blue eyes; both are mad about sweets, share Arthur's love of Muggles, tell very silly jokes, and have a scar on one leg. Some of the evidence is quite ingenious. (Bertie Bott was born in 1935, and presumably invented Every-Flavor Beans sometime after he was 20 or so. Dumbledore said in PS/SS 17 that he was put off them by a vomit flavored one he'd had "in my youth"--though he'd have been over a century old by the time they were invented.)
And now they both have gold pocketwatches with weird symbols. And JKR seems to have buried the watch really quickly, never mentioning it again. And it seems really uncharacteristic. I mean, if Arthur and Molly had extra money, you'd think they'd buy Ron something he really wanted. So I thought it was really interesting. If it's not a clue, I don't quite understand why it's there.
I'm not quite as sure about this theory as I was, though, not because of her Rumors page, but because Dumbledore is really dead. I don't think she'd do that. But we'll see. (I hope!)
legolas returns - Sep 6, 2006 11:41 am (#1830 of 1957)
Arthur was promoted so I guess he would have been given a pay rise and only 2 kids were living at home.
Ron was really pleased with the watch. I think the watch is a symbolic thing. Rather like in the olden days when you were 21 you were given the keys to the house.
painting sheila - Sep 6, 2006 12:39 pm (#1831 of 1957)
Maybe the watch is a Mini-Molly Clock. It tells you when you are in danger - or when your loved ones are in danger.
I would have thought I had a cleare view at this point of what was going where inthe story - but I am more confused than before ----AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
(whew! I feel better)
cindysuewho45 - Oct 27, 2006 7:14 am (#1832 of 1957)
Hi all,I love the Ron in the books, and I also feel that the actor who plays Ron in the movies, is the best! But I wish they give Ron his lines and stop giving them to Hermione or whoever. JKR did a great job with Ron. He is great at strategy and thinking things through, in the long term. He is funny, caring and a good guy to have around. I have found myself wondering about Ron and or his mom. I feel that one or the other may die in book 7. Bad things things happen in war. And the interview with JKR, about her talking to her husband, and him saying, Oh......NO....! You can not do that! Then she says something like, so I did. Makes me wonder if it may not be the end of someone we love and we love Ron. I know that Ron will always be there for Harry when it counts! And I like it that Ron and Hermione will be together, I think going into book 7. I'm looking forward to as much of Ron as I can get in book 7! I feel that Molly will have a cow when Ron takes off with Harry this comming summer. But I also feel that she will be happy when Ron acts like he is going back to school.(He will be looking for Horcruxes at Hogwarts), but at lest he will be at school. And that will make his mom happy.
Die Zimtzicke - Oct 27, 2006 3:58 pm (#1833 of 1957)
I love Ron, in the books and the movies, and I agree that they should play to his strengths in the films. Maybe we should take this to the film threads and bring it up again.
But Ron in the books is such a complex, wonderful character with such clear motivations. He wants, as I see it, to be recognized for himself, but he's still insecure about where he stands in the scheme of things. He's just so basically sweet.
cindysuewho45 - Oct 31, 2006 8:01 pm (#1834 of 1957)
Hi all, and Die I agree with you about Ron. I wish that there was a thread that the movie writers looked at, so they could get the idea of letting Ron keep more of his lines. I would love for Ron to be recognized for doing something for the school etc.. Something that his dad and mom will be proud of him for. Or end up being Head Boy, something like that. But he may not be at Hogwarts at the start of school. Although I firmly believe he will end up there soon.
S.E. Jones - Oct 31, 2006 9:33 pm (#1835 of 1957)
If we want to discuss how the character of Ron is portrayed in the movies and further, we should take the discussion to one of the movie threads. Thanks.
--I would love for Ron to be recognized for doing something for the school etc.. Something that his dad and mom will be proud of him for.--
Didn't Ron get an award for service to the school at the end of PS?
shadzar - Nov 1, 2006 1:24 am (#1836 of 1957)
Cos, him and Harry did, but was it anything like a plaque, or just the 200 points each to the house?
Laura W - Nov 1, 2006 1:31 am (#1837 of 1957)
CoS, Chapter 18, p.243 (Raincoast):
"... Dumbledore went on, smiling, 'You will both receive Special Awards for Services to the School and - let me see - yes, I think two hundred points apiece for Gryffindor.' "
Ydnam96 - Dec 3, 2006 12:43 pm (#1838 of 1957)
So that means he and Harry should both have plaques in the trophy room. Tom got one for the whole basilisk thing when he was in school (even though he caused all the problems and blamed them on Hagrid).
painting sheila - Dec 12, 2006 8:20 pm (#1839 of 1957)
Off the beaten path here -
What is in the core of Ron's wand?
Hoot Owl - Dec 12, 2006 8:34 pm (#1840 of 1957)
Unicorn Hair
painting sheila - Dec 16, 2006 6:57 pm (#1841 of 1957)
Thanks!
Another oii the path question - Why do Harry's, ron's and Hermione's wands make a "complete set" or complete each other?
Ollivander's Apprentice - Dec 16, 2006 7:45 pm (#1842 of 1957)
The trio's wands are a "complete set" in the sense that all of the cores Ollivander uses in the construction of wands have been used: Unicorn Hair (Ron), Dragon Heartstring (Hermione), Phoenix Feather (Harry).
Is there further (magical/plot) significance to this "completion"?
Steve Newton - Dec 17, 2006 6:57 am (#1843 of 1957)
I can't think of any but I'm betting that the Alchemy folks can. Or, probably, have. Alas, I gave up reading the Alchemy thread long ago, too many posts and too many things that I want to know more about.
S.E. Jones - Dec 17, 2006 2:35 pm (#1844 of 1957)
Maybe this line of discussion should be taken to the Alchemy thread then?
TomProffitt - Jan 6, 2007 4:45 am (#1845 of 1957)
I was re-reading PS/SS last night and came to the Mirror of Erised. (US version, soft cover, pp212 & 213.)
It dawned on me that it is very possible that Harry was not discovered by Dumbledore's ability to turn invisible without a cloak, but by the more simple means of Ron ratting him out. The sequence is very quick in the book, Harry won't eat, Ron asks Harry not to go back, Harry won't say he won't go back, Harry is caught, Dumbledore knows what Harry & Ron both saw in the mirror. Seems to me that Ron was afraid for his friend and did the right thing.
haymoni - Jan 6, 2007 5:48 am (#1846 of 1957)
That is possible, but why would Dumbledore go on to say that he doesn't need a cloak to be invisible?
I just don't see a second-year Ronald Weasley approaching the Headmaster with this kind of information.
TomProffitt - Jan 6, 2007 5:57 am (#1847 of 1957)
haymoni , the quote by Dumbledore would be a way to protect "his source." It was also first year student, Ron. Did he go directly to Dumbledore or tell someone else who told, Dumbledore? I don't know. It would be nice if Dumbledore were a little more "all knowing," but having Ron seek help for a friend is a better story I think. I'll ask Jo next time I have her over for tea.
haymoni- Jan 6, 2007 6:05 am (#1848 of 1957)
You are correct - smack my hand for forgetting what book I was in!
I guess I just like thinking that Dumbledore is greater than most.
I'd like an invite for that tea with Jo!
Laura W - Jan 6, 2007 11:38 pm (#1849 of 1957)
I seriously doubt if Ron would go to Dumbledore or any authority figure and tell on Harry, Tom. No canon for this - or for the theory that he did do so, for that matter -, but it just doesn't fit in with the Ron Jo has shown us (in my opinion).
Ron is hardly Hermoine when it comes to obeying rules and respecting teachers. It was she, and not he, who told McGonagall about the Firebolt after all. Ron, like Harry, was angry at her for doing so - although she did the right thing under the circumstances. Ron strikes me as being very like the boy Sirius Black in his flaunting of rules (eg - such as when he took the Ford Anglia in CoS, such as when he chucked the knife at his older brother in HBP, such as when he encouraged Harry to go to Hogsmede even though Harry was not permitted to in PoA, such as in not minding when he thought Harry illegally put his own name in the Goblet in GoF (what he *did* mind very much was that his best mate would not tell him how he did it and how he got away with it!), etc.). I just do not see Ron telling on Harry for anything; even when it would be in Harry's best interest for him to.
And I am among those who take Dumbledore's line, I don't need a cloak to become invisible," to mean just that. I think Dumbledore's powers are beyond that of most or all other wizards: "the greatest wizard of the age", as it says in chapter five of PoA. Heck, he says himself in OoP that he would be able to escape from Azkaban ("I have absolutely no intention of being sent to Azkaban. I could break out, of course - but what a waste of time,"), and it is stated in canon that no one else has ever been ever to do that (PoA, p.60, Raincoast). No one in *human* form, that is. (wink)
Laura
Choices - Jan 7, 2007 5:42 pm (#1850 of 1957)
I'm with haymoni and Laura.....I don't think loyal Ron would rat on Harry. No way. Hermione only told because she thought Harry was in real danger.
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S.E. Jones - Jan 7, 2007 8:29 pm (#1851 of 1957)
If Ron had the guts to go to a Prefect or McGonagall or Dumbledore in PS to tell on Harry for his best mate's own good, surely he would've had the guts to do so in OP when he knew Harry was being tortured and he kept pushing Harry to do the same. I don't see Ron doing it, even for Harry's own good.
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 7, 2007 8:59 pm (#1852 of 1957)
Ron is Harry's man just like Harry was Dumbledore's man. Through and Through even unto death if necessary. IMO
Mickey
TomProffitt - Jan 8, 2007 4:50 am (#1853 of 1957)
Re-read the conclusion of PS/SS last night and it changed my view of Ron telling on Harry back to the standard view. It was a nice thought that Ron would go to those lengths for a friend, but it just doesn't bear up to close scrutiny.
frogface - Mar 1, 2007 3:34 am (#1854 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron! Avoid Liquer Filled Chocolates and Oak Mead this year!
journeymom - Mar 1, 2007 12:39 pm (#1855 of 1957)
Happy Birthday, Ronald! Weasley is our king!
Jenniffler - Jul 3, 2007 7:53 am (#1856 of 1957)
Ok, I am shamelessly promoting a return to the Ron thread. Now as much as I love the new movie, it's not about Ron in it. It about DH and if Ron could possibly live up to the potential he really has. In DH he appears on the British cover and the Deluxe US cover. I believe he will be Harry's right hand in the book. (No need to cut it off thank you very much!)
He has already exceeded his own parent's goals for him. It is interesting that they forbid bad behavior, but don't influence him too much about the choices he makes. Molly doesn't say "Look at all that hard work we put in with you for leadership and now your a prefect." Arthur doesn't send an owl bursting with pride over every little quidditch triumph. But I think they're aware, and pleased and proud, but in such a low key way, that Ron himself struggles all the more for the lack of prodding.
He's snagged the attention of Hermione. They are not currently a couple. Without delving too much into shipping, why would they be mutually interested in each other, still? What is the thing that makes them quibble so much?
Also, I expect Ron to be The great prognosticator he has been in the past. Wether the "Ron is a seer" thing is true or not, he has been and I believe will be the best source for prediction of the improbable but accurate.
Live, Ron, Live!
Remi - Jul 5, 2007 10:02 am (#1857 of 1957)
Jennifler, I was never a big Ron fan. I had originally seen him as being a shadow of Harry - not as smart, talented, or brave.
But on re-re-reading the books, I see him to have so much more depth of character than I originally thought. I now see him as someone who has wisdom (if not intelligence), humility, extreme loyalty, courage, and a fabulous sense of humor and quick-wit.
I too hope that in DH he gets a chance to live up to his potential.
journeymom - Jul 5, 2007 12:39 pm (#1858 of 1957)
prediction of the improbable but accurate.
Lol! Brilliant!
M A Grimmett - Jul 5, 2007 12:46 pm (#1859 of 1957)
Didn't Ron get a new broom for being Prefect? I think the whole LV thing is why they're not fussing over Ron as much as they did his brothers.
journeymom - Jul 5, 2007 1:58 pm (#1860 of 1957)
Well, and the poor kids is #6 of 7.
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 5, 2007 2:25 pm (#1861 of 1957)
Being 6 out of 7 no longer cuts it. They only had four kids home in OotP, and they only have two kids left at home now, and those two are not home much.
It's easy to brush Ron off as the sidekick, but he still the person who means the most to Harry, the one who explains the Wizarding world, the one who brought Harry to the Weasleys so we could get a glimpse of a pureblood family that wasn't stuffy. Most of what Harry knows (and be extension, what we know) about wizards comes from Ron. He's not only sweet, he's hugely important.
Jenniffler - Jul 5, 2007 2:33 pm (#1862 of 1957)
Ron asking for new broom was a one time thing. I doubt he'll ask for anything new from this parents again. Handed down clothes aren't uncomfortable, just worn. Ron will soon be able to make his own way in the world (I hope.)
As for being one of many, he's still a Weasley, isn't he? The family is not so humble and modest that they don't fuss over the accomplishments of the children. The Weasley family, I think, is waiting for the other shoe to drop where Ron is concerned, as if they expect him to do something they can't talk or think about. The other brothers and even Ginny have all topped out at their chosen specialties( or gained so much that the parents don't expect more!) The difference with Ron is his gradual struggle to greatness and the fact he has not hit a plateau yet.
TheSaint - Jul 7, 2007 12:26 am (#1863 of 1957)
Agreed. His mother still speaks of his immaturity. I think they are all still waiting for Ron to become the man he will be. He is just taking longer than some.
Aqualu Nifey - Jul 15, 2007 5:28 pm (#1864 of 1957)
Love Ron, though I do, and fully expect him to a mature into a rational(ish) and powerful man, I think, in fact I'm pretty certain ('cause I had this strange epiphany half way through my glass of Pom one day) that he's gonna die. At the Big Show. He's gonna die. He's going to be a lovely, brilliant, and completely requisite character until that point, but he's going to die on Harry's quest to face Voldy, just like he sacrificed himself in the chess scene at the end of SS/PS. He's going to sacrifice himself so Harry and Hermione can go on.
Jenniffler - Aug 6, 2007 11:11 pm (#1865 of 1957)
Edited Aug 7, 2007 12:12 am
Well. it looks like Ron did not have to make the ultimate sacrifice. But he was willing to, provided jealousy didn't eat him up on an empty stomach. I nearly flipped out before the locket scene was over. "It sounds cooler than it was." Good grief!
Ron's eventual maturity was rewarded so unexpectedly by a exuberant kiss by Hermione. Guess he didn't need all those lessons with Lavender after all.
Ron was, for the last half of the book, was as I expected him to be. I didn't catch any joking predictions, but if I find the merest hint on my third re-read I'll bring it here.
Puck - Aug 7, 2007 4:54 am (#1866 of 1957)
I loved the way he tried to protect Hermione. Shooting Harry dirty looks if he upset her, and -more importantly- offering to be tortured in her place. His practically shared her pain when she was being tortured. I loved him in that scene.
Remi - Aug 7, 2007 6:42 am (#1867 of 1957)
He was really wonderful in that scene, Puck! I was re-watching "Sorcerer's Stone" with my daughter last night and was reminded that it all started with his saving Hermione with the Wingardium Leviosa spell on the troll. Sigh - if only it was as simple for him to save Hermione from Bellatrix.... (of course, I'm not undermining Harry's part in both saves.)
I am really sorry though that DH didn't prove that Ron was an amazing strategist. I always thought that Ron being good at chess would play a role in later books. Clearly, I am not a seer either.
Potteraholic - Aug 7, 2007 8:04 am (#1868 of 1957)
Edited Aug 7, 2007 9:05 am
Remi: "... re-watching "Sorcerer's Stone" with my daughter last night and was reminded that it all started with his saving Hermione with the Wingardium Leviosa spell on the troll."
After reading DH, I stated reading all the other books again just to see where JKR had dropped hints about things that came up in future books. Reading SS, when the Trio dealt with the troll, was one of those "Aha!" moments. As written, the scene shows Ron in an even stronger light than the movie version because he comes up with the right spell all on his own, without any help from Hermione whatsoever. (Movie Hermione reminds him about "swish and flick".) It shows that Ron had it in him, to do exactly the right thing, even then. Yay, Ron!
Remi - Aug 7, 2007 11:53 am (#1869 of 1957)
Nice idea about re-reading the series to catch the dropped hints (I've just been re-reading DH & listening on audio non-stop).
Couple of big hints about Ron that comes up in DH were in the Mirror of Erised chapter of SS. Dumbledore saying, "Ron Weasley, who has always been overshadowed by his brothers, sees himself standing alone, the best of all of them" foreshadows (1) Dumbledore really understanding Ron - hence the gift of the Deluminator, and (2) the effect of the locket/horcrux on Ron and what the soul within the locket says & shows him.
But I was really sure about the chess-strategy thing and the Ron sacrificing himself in SS would foreshadow things to come in Book 7. Not that I'm complaining - I'm thrilled Ginger made it to the epilogue.
journeymom - Aug 10, 2007 2:35 pm (#1870 of 1957)
I am really sorry though that DH didn't prove that Ron was an amazing strategist. I always thought that Ron being good at chess would play a role in later books. Clearly, I am not a seer either.... I'm thrilled Ginger made it to the epilogue. Remi
I thought that, too. But Ron did have his own challenges, and he still proved to be Harry's best mate.
Madam Pince - Aug 12, 2007 4:33 am (#1871 of 1957)
Edited Aug 12, 2007 5:36 am
Remi, you said something elsewhere about the inconsistencies between JKR's webchat and her interview with Meredith Viera. I thought the most glaring one concerned Ron -- in the Viera interview, she said that Harry and Ron revolutionized the Auror department in the Ministry. Then in the webchat she said that Ron went into the Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes business with George after Fred's demise, and then in a later question about George's future she said something like, "... remaining in business assisted by his brother Ron."
So which was it -- Ron in the Ministry or Ron at Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes? I guess she could take the convenient route and say he did both -- mainly silent business partner at WWW while working his day job at the Ministry or something. Or maybe the "revolutionizing" only consisted of them having set a new example by what they did during the Horcrux hunt, which led to the re-making of the Auror office's training principles or something.
Remi - Aug 12, 2007 7:33 am (#1872 of 1957)
OOh - I'm so glad you totally picked up on one of the things I was alluding to! It was in the Luna-thread, so I deleted my para about the two occupations for Ron. Yes, he could've done both, or started out with Harry in the Auror Department and then quit to work with George, but either way I thought it wasn't consistent.
I HATE finding fault with Jo. I feel like it's biting the hand that feeds me - she has giving me so much pure joy over the past 7 years, yet I'm well aware of the inconsistencies within the books not to mention information from her interviews, etc. (Don't get me started about how the fidelis charm works).
SO, with Ron I will imagine that he has the best of both worlds - fighting dark wizards with Harry, and in his spare time selling Decoy Detonators with George. And of course, raising Hugo & Rose with Hermione
Luna Logic - Aug 12, 2007 10:53 am (#1873 of 1957)
Edited by Aug 12, 2007 11:53 am
On Ron 's career, I think the important point is choice: And I think his choice was to be auror. Not to be a replacement for George... IMO George must learn live his own life as hard as it is - here I know I could disagree with Jo Rowling...
-----------------
On another subject : In the Lord Voldemort/Tom Riddle thread, a discussion began about Ron speaking (a word) in Parseltongue at the end of DH.
Madame Pomfrey : I would imagine you could learn Parceltongue just like any other language. I just don't think many do because it's connected to the Dark Arts.However,I think it must be very hard to accomplish. Jo said in her webchat that Dumbledore could speak it. The man's brilliant! she said. I was impressed with Ron for remembering the words Harry used to open the locket, so he could get in the chamber. He doesn't normally pay too close attention to detail.
Legolas return: Ron was starting to remember detail in relation to events that traumatised him. He repeated something about food being exception to Gamps Law of Elemental transfiguration when in the ROR. This was probably due to the enforced hunger. I am sure Rons mental torture by the locket Tom would result in the whole event being etched eternally in his mind.
I like very much Legolas return‘s explanation. I had noticed the "food being exception to Gamps Law of Elemental transfiguration" bit also, but I didn't knew what to do with it! To link the two items makes great sense.
I like Ron character, and his evolution, in DH...
NFla Barbara - Aug 12, 2007 8:08 pm (#1874 of 1957)
Ron's choice would be to be an auror, I am sure. Plus, we know he is married to Hermione 19 years later, and I really cannot imagine her being terribly thrilled with someone whose main purpose in life was a joke shop (she might have softened, but that would really require a complete character overhaul). I can imagine, however, that he somehow did both...perhaps taking a role at the shop allowed him the flexibility that he and Hermione would need for her to take on the legal predicament of house elves and other disadvantaged species in the WW.
I was also terribly worried that Ron would make the big sacrifice in DH, and relieved that he did not have to.
Die Zimtzicke - Aug 12, 2007 8:19 pm (#1875 of 1957)
How hard would it have been for Jo to say, "Ron helped George get the shop back on its feet, then finished school and became an auror" or something like that? It would have taken her no time at all. I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel to defend Jo when she says things that are hard to understand.
Mrs. Sirius - Aug 19, 2007 10:05 pm (#1876 of 1957)
Edited Aug 19, 2007 11:10 pm
Legolas return: Ron was starting to remember detail in relation to events that traumatised him. He repeated something about food being exception to Gamps Law of Elemental transfiguration when in the ROR. This was probably due to the enforced hunger. I am sure Rons mental torture by the locket Tom would result in the whole event being etched eternally in his mind.
Let's not forget that Ron has spent 7 years with Hermione, the last one of which he spent living with her under extradinary circumstances. He hadn't paid much attention to the intellectual stuff over the years because, well he didn't have to. He was brave, a Griffydor.
But now Hermione has said to him, I paraphrase, "rack your brains Ron, it shouldn't take too long". When he complained that they didn't have enough food while on the run, but that his mother was always able to conjure enough, Hermione blew her top and explained how that worked.
This line is right in keeping with his thought before the battle of getting the house elves out for their safety before the battle begins. Ron is growing and learning under Hermione's influence.
In 19 years I see nothing wrong or odd about Ron revolutionizing the Auror department and moving on to working with George. Remember, Ron is second best.
But now he has proved himself in the battle and stood shoulder to shoulder with Harry Potter. They go forward and revolutionize the department, he now has nothing to prove. Ron doesn't seem the office kind of guy. Once that task is completed, he can go home and work at something he really wants/likes. Ron and all the Weasleys are all about family.In 19 years i see him do a job to an out standing degree and then leave at his height.
Luna Logic - Aug 19, 2007 11:00 pm (#1877 of 1957)
I agree with your analysis of Ron' evolution in DH, Mrs Sirius. I will add that in DH, for the first time, Ron had not an "environment" which was taking him in charge. Thus, he had to learn, intellectually speaking also, to cope with things. And he must have meditated a lot during the month and a half (quite so?) when he was without his friends at Shell Cottage.
But after the war? We know that Ron wanted to be an auror. That job is not an office job IMO (see Moody or Shaklebolt). Ron could have changed some ways of doing the job, not by sitting in an office, but by practicing and demonstrating practice to others aurors.
Xenophilius - Aug 20, 2007 4:00 am (#1878 of 1957)
Don't forget Ron was confronted with his insecurities and symbolically destroyed them when he destroys the locket. It is after that act that he grows as a character amd becomes a full partner to Harry and Hermione. He is no longer second to either of them.
NFla Barbara - Aug 20, 2007 4:15 am (#1879 of 1957)
Yes, which makes it less plausible to me that his career would be helping George in the shop. Of course he would help -- they're family. But Ron isn't just a spare brother who can substitute for Fred -- he would have a life of his own.
Lilly P - Aug 20, 2007 8:26 am (#1880 of 1957)
Remi, you said something elsewhere about the inconsistencies between JKR's webchat and her interview with Meredith Viera. I thought the most glaring one concerned Ron -- in the Viera interview, she said that Harry and Ron revolutionized the Auror department in the Ministry. Then in the webchat she said that Ron went into the Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes business with George after Fred's demise, and then in a later question about George's future she said something like, "... remaining in business assisted by his brother Ron."
So which was it -- Ron in the Ministry or Ron at Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes? I guess she could take the convenient route and say he did both -- mainly silent business partner at WWW while working his day job at the Ministry or something. Or maybe the "revolutionizing" only consisted of them having set a new example by what they did during the Horcrux hunt, which led to the re-making of the Auror office's training principles or something. Madame Pince
This makes me think back to when Mr. Weasley (Arthur) was so impressed with Fred and Georges Hats with the shielding charms that made your head dissappear. He said somthing along the lines about how "you would be suprissed at how many witches and wizards can't even do a simple shielding charm anymore" Maby Harry (silent partner in WWW) Ron and George revolutionized the Auror Department by providing them with them with products that helped them, such as shielding equipment, purivian darkness powder suppliers, the little ducks that waddel off and creat a distraction somewhere else ect.... they could have become civialian "consultants" like the ones my hubby worked with when he was in the military, they provided things like bullet proof vests and armor plating. Maby they didn't have to work for the Ministry to revolutionize it. JM2KW
Jamie
NFla Barbara - Aug 20, 2007 12:48 pm (#1881 of 1957)
I like your version. ; )
Jenniffler - Aug 21, 2007 8:16 pm (#1882 of 1957)
# Chapter Twenty - Xenophilius Lovegood #22 - haymoni We had a thread about Ron's predictions - I guess we could add Voldy's name actually being Taboo as one of them.
Wohoo! Someone finally found Ron predicting something in DH. I guess, like before it took some thought to piece together the cause and effect. My eyes are still open for other quirky incidences of Ron foreshadowing what was to come next. But obviously, it's likely a more expert poster will get to it before me. Yay.
journeymom - Aug 21, 2007 10:45 pm (#1883 of 1957)
Good one. I got shivers when Ron said that. Prior to Deathly Hallows I'd wondered if the DE's literally could not speak Voldemort's name without Voldemort being aware of it, that it was some how linked to their dark marks. I was sort of right. It wasn't till the last book, and the taboo applied to everybody, not just the Death Eaters.
Pigwidgeon - Aug 28, 2007 8:04 am (#1884 of 1957)
OK, slight switch of direction for a goofy question. The hat Ron wears in Prisoner of Azkaban (for winter, during the Hogsmeade scene). Does that type of hat have a specific name?
Snuffles - Aug 28, 2007 1:24 pm (#1885 of 1957)
I think it's just called a tassled Beanie hat. I could be wrong, it has been known before!
Die Zimtzicke - Aug 29, 2007 5:18 am (#1886 of 1957)
Hats with ear flaps are usually hunting caps, because you can fold down the ear part and tie it to keep warm, or fold it up and leave it untied to be able to listen for small sounds, but I've never seen a knit one before.
journeymom - Aug 29, 2007 7:57 am (#1887 of 1957)
It's a sherpa cap. I googled images of 'sherpa knit cap' and 'sherpa knit hat' and found references to Ron.
Pigwidgeon - Aug 30, 2007 4:33 am (#1888 of 1957)
Thank you! I really appreciate this I had no end of trouble trying to find this out.
legolas returns - Sep 3, 2007 3:00 pm (#1889 of 1957)
In the nineteen years that passed between the end of DH and the epilogue Ron doesn't seem to have changed that much. Bless him! .
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 3, 2007 7:46 pm (#1890 of 1957)
Legolas I really liked the line about him being famous. He changed enough to not be jealous of Harry any more! LPO
legolas returns - Sep 3, 2007 10:27 pm (#1891 of 1957)
I really meant the dislike of slytherin house and telling his children that he would disown them if they were not in Gryfindor. No pressure
maria cloos - Sep 4, 2007 11:09 am (#1892 of 1957)
Lol, legolas. I dont' know that he was serious (nor that he wasn't) about disowning the kids if they weren't in Gryffindor. I just thought it was funny when he confessed to Harry that he used a confundus charm on the driving tester. I almost died! It's just so typical of Ron, although I am admittedly very proud that Ron actually learned how to drive!
legolas returns - Sep 4, 2007 11:12 am (#1893 of 1957)
He followed that by telling him that his father would never speak to them again if they married a pure blood. The whole conversation between Ron/Harry and the families made me laugh.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 15, 2007 1:37 pm (#1894 of 1957)
When I first read the conversation I was disappointed. When I heard it on the audio book I really laughed. They may be all grown up by they haven't changed much. I loved how Ron was glad Rose had her mother's brains. LPO
Liz Mann - Oct 25, 2007 4:24 pm (#1895 of 1957)
Edited Oct 25, 2007 5:26 pm
Has anyone on here read HPANA's article about the Carnegie Hall reading in New York? Someone from HPAPA was there, and someone asked what would have occured had Arthur died in OotP. J.K. said that Ron would have lost his sense of humour and taken away Harry's refuge at The Burrow. She also said that Ron's humour stemmed from insecurities and immaturity and that he was the last to become an adult by facing his fears in the last book.
I actually felt a twinge of horror at the idea of Ron losing his sense of humour, especially because of his dad dying. He wouldn't have been really Ron anymore, and his humour was the reason I loved him so much when I first read the books at fifteen. So glad Mr Weasley did not die!
Madam Pince - Oct 25, 2007 5:30 pm (#1896 of 1957)
I was just reading that myself Liz, and I agree -- what a horror it would've been to have Ron change like that! I thought it was bad enough the way he changed while they were "on the run" and he didn't have enough to eat!
Liz Mann - Oct 26, 2007 9:48 am (#1897 of 1957)
Edited Oct 26, 2007 10:48 am
Well that was largely because of the Horcrux around his neck. The effects of Mr Weasley's death would have been much more Ron himself.
Madam Pince - Oct 26, 2007 3:17 pm (#1898 of 1957)
True. I guess what I was meaning is that it's just very hard to see someone that you're close to transform or change for the worse. It was painful enough to watch Ron change just for the space of a few weeks -- it would be terrible if he changed permanently due to the death of his father.
freshwater - Dec 10, 2007 12:18 pm (#1899 of 1957)
While reading DH I was initially disappointed in Ron for becoming so irrascible and eventually abandoning Harry and Hermione, even though it was largely due to the effect of the locket horcrux. But as I've mulled over the story these last few months, I've come to see those events is a different light.
Throughout DH, JKR shows us how various characters react to the challenges and trials they face. Ron's reactions don't really mean he is weak. It is just another example of how humans react under pressure.....and it often does not show us at our best, or, at least, not immediately. Ron's response to the evil of the locket horcrux, and to the minor trials of poor food and uncomfortable lodging is an example of how even the best of us can be overwhelmed by a series of minor problems. I've no doubt that in any major conflict or decision, Ron would have faced down anything and everything to help Harry. But it is so often the small, irritating matters that lay us low, rather than the grand, dramatic events. Like that old saying, "It's the pebble in your shoe that wears you down, not the mountain before you."
I also love the way Ron immediately regretted his actions and wanted to return, but was prevented.....a good lesson for us to not judge someone before knowing all the circumstances. And I love the manner of his return: saving Harry in the pool, facing his greatest fears and then destroying the locket, and sorting things out with Harry. By that point in the book he was, IMHO, already 3/4 of the way to the Ron who wanted to warn the house elves to escape Hogwarts.
Vox Gerbilis - Dec 10, 2007 6:31 pm (#1900 of 1957)
Great post, Freshwater. I empathized with Ron throughout his forest trials, because I'm also easily worn down by cumulative minor discomforts. I was deeply moved by his confrontation with the Horcrux images. He had to face his worse fears, with Harry seeing everything. The redemption and reconciliation after he pierced the locket brought me to tears.
If Ron had the guts to go to a Prefect or McGonagall or Dumbledore in PS to tell on Harry for his best mate's own good, surely he would've had the guts to do so in OP when he knew Harry was being tortured and he kept pushing Harry to do the same. I don't see Ron doing it, even for Harry's own good.
MickeyCee3948 - Jan 7, 2007 8:59 pm (#1852 of 1957)
Ron is Harry's man just like Harry was Dumbledore's man. Through and Through even unto death if necessary. IMO
Mickey
TomProffitt - Jan 8, 2007 4:50 am (#1853 of 1957)
Re-read the conclusion of PS/SS last night and it changed my view of Ron telling on Harry back to the standard view. It was a nice thought that Ron would go to those lengths for a friend, but it just doesn't bear up to close scrutiny.
frogface - Mar 1, 2007 3:34 am (#1854 of 1957)
Happy Birthday Ron! Avoid Liquer Filled Chocolates and Oak Mead this year!
journeymom - Mar 1, 2007 12:39 pm (#1855 of 1957)
Happy Birthday, Ronald! Weasley is our king!
Jenniffler - Jul 3, 2007 7:53 am (#1856 of 1957)
Ok, I am shamelessly promoting a return to the Ron thread. Now as much as I love the new movie, it's not about Ron in it. It about DH and if Ron could possibly live up to the potential he really has. In DH he appears on the British cover and the Deluxe US cover. I believe he will be Harry's right hand in the book. (No need to cut it off thank you very much!)
He has already exceeded his own parent's goals for him. It is interesting that they forbid bad behavior, but don't influence him too much about the choices he makes. Molly doesn't say "Look at all that hard work we put in with you for leadership and now your a prefect." Arthur doesn't send an owl bursting with pride over every little quidditch triumph. But I think they're aware, and pleased and proud, but in such a low key way, that Ron himself struggles all the more for the lack of prodding.
He's snagged the attention of Hermione. They are not currently a couple. Without delving too much into shipping, why would they be mutually interested in each other, still? What is the thing that makes them quibble so much?
Also, I expect Ron to be The great prognosticator he has been in the past. Wether the "Ron is a seer" thing is true or not, he has been and I believe will be the best source for prediction of the improbable but accurate.
Live, Ron, Live!
Remi - Jul 5, 2007 10:02 am (#1857 of 1957)
Jennifler, I was never a big Ron fan. I had originally seen him as being a shadow of Harry - not as smart, talented, or brave.
But on re-re-reading the books, I see him to have so much more depth of character than I originally thought. I now see him as someone who has wisdom (if not intelligence), humility, extreme loyalty, courage, and a fabulous sense of humor and quick-wit.
I too hope that in DH he gets a chance to live up to his potential.
journeymom - Jul 5, 2007 12:39 pm (#1858 of 1957)
prediction of the improbable but accurate.
Lol! Brilliant!
M A Grimmett - Jul 5, 2007 12:46 pm (#1859 of 1957)
Didn't Ron get a new broom for being Prefect? I think the whole LV thing is why they're not fussing over Ron as much as they did his brothers.
journeymom - Jul 5, 2007 1:58 pm (#1860 of 1957)
Well, and the poor kids is #6 of 7.
Die Zimtzicke - Jul 5, 2007 2:25 pm (#1861 of 1957)
Being 6 out of 7 no longer cuts it. They only had four kids home in OotP, and they only have two kids left at home now, and those two are not home much.
It's easy to brush Ron off as the sidekick, but he still the person who means the most to Harry, the one who explains the Wizarding world, the one who brought Harry to the Weasleys so we could get a glimpse of a pureblood family that wasn't stuffy. Most of what Harry knows (and be extension, what we know) about wizards comes from Ron. He's not only sweet, he's hugely important.
Jenniffler - Jul 5, 2007 2:33 pm (#1862 of 1957)
Ron asking for new broom was a one time thing. I doubt he'll ask for anything new from this parents again. Handed down clothes aren't uncomfortable, just worn. Ron will soon be able to make his own way in the world (I hope.)
As for being one of many, he's still a Weasley, isn't he? The family is not so humble and modest that they don't fuss over the accomplishments of the children. The Weasley family, I think, is waiting for the other shoe to drop where Ron is concerned, as if they expect him to do something they can't talk or think about. The other brothers and even Ginny have all topped out at their chosen specialties( or gained so much that the parents don't expect more!) The difference with Ron is his gradual struggle to greatness and the fact he has not hit a plateau yet.
TheSaint - Jul 7, 2007 12:26 am (#1863 of 1957)
Agreed. His mother still speaks of his immaturity. I think they are all still waiting for Ron to become the man he will be. He is just taking longer than some.
Aqualu Nifey - Jul 15, 2007 5:28 pm (#1864 of 1957)
Love Ron, though I do, and fully expect him to a mature into a rational(ish) and powerful man, I think, in fact I'm pretty certain ('cause I had this strange epiphany half way through my glass of Pom one day) that he's gonna die. At the Big Show. He's gonna die. He's going to be a lovely, brilliant, and completely requisite character until that point, but he's going to die on Harry's quest to face Voldy, just like he sacrificed himself in the chess scene at the end of SS/PS. He's going to sacrifice himself so Harry and Hermione can go on.
Jenniffler - Aug 6, 2007 11:11 pm (#1865 of 1957)
Edited Aug 7, 2007 12:12 am
Well. it looks like Ron did not have to make the ultimate sacrifice. But he was willing to, provided jealousy didn't eat him up on an empty stomach. I nearly flipped out before the locket scene was over. "It sounds cooler than it was." Good grief!
Ron's eventual maturity was rewarded so unexpectedly by a exuberant kiss by Hermione. Guess he didn't need all those lessons with Lavender after all.
Ron was, for the last half of the book, was as I expected him to be. I didn't catch any joking predictions, but if I find the merest hint on my third re-read I'll bring it here.
Puck - Aug 7, 2007 4:54 am (#1866 of 1957)
I loved the way he tried to protect Hermione. Shooting Harry dirty looks if he upset her, and -more importantly- offering to be tortured in her place. His practically shared her pain when she was being tortured. I loved him in that scene.
Remi - Aug 7, 2007 6:42 am (#1867 of 1957)
He was really wonderful in that scene, Puck! I was re-watching "Sorcerer's Stone" with my daughter last night and was reminded that it all started with his saving Hermione with the Wingardium Leviosa spell on the troll. Sigh - if only it was as simple for him to save Hermione from Bellatrix.... (of course, I'm not undermining Harry's part in both saves.)
I am really sorry though that DH didn't prove that Ron was an amazing strategist. I always thought that Ron being good at chess would play a role in later books. Clearly, I am not a seer either.
Potteraholic - Aug 7, 2007 8:04 am (#1868 of 1957)
Edited Aug 7, 2007 9:05 am
Remi: "... re-watching "Sorcerer's Stone" with my daughter last night and was reminded that it all started with his saving Hermione with the Wingardium Leviosa spell on the troll."
After reading DH, I stated reading all the other books again just to see where JKR had dropped hints about things that came up in future books. Reading SS, when the Trio dealt with the troll, was one of those "Aha!" moments. As written, the scene shows Ron in an even stronger light than the movie version because he comes up with the right spell all on his own, without any help from Hermione whatsoever. (Movie Hermione reminds him about "swish and flick".) It shows that Ron had it in him, to do exactly the right thing, even then. Yay, Ron!
Remi - Aug 7, 2007 11:53 am (#1869 of 1957)
Nice idea about re-reading the series to catch the dropped hints (I've just been re-reading DH & listening on audio non-stop).
Couple of big hints about Ron that comes up in DH were in the Mirror of Erised chapter of SS. Dumbledore saying, "Ron Weasley, who has always been overshadowed by his brothers, sees himself standing alone, the best of all of them" foreshadows (1) Dumbledore really understanding Ron - hence the gift of the Deluminator, and (2) the effect of the locket/horcrux on Ron and what the soul within the locket says & shows him.
But I was really sure about the chess-strategy thing and the Ron sacrificing himself in SS would foreshadow things to come in Book 7. Not that I'm complaining - I'm thrilled Ginger made it to the epilogue.
journeymom - Aug 10, 2007 2:35 pm (#1870 of 1957)
I am really sorry though that DH didn't prove that Ron was an amazing strategist. I always thought that Ron being good at chess would play a role in later books. Clearly, I am not a seer either.... I'm thrilled Ginger made it to the epilogue. Remi
I thought that, too. But Ron did have his own challenges, and he still proved to be Harry's best mate.
Madam Pince - Aug 12, 2007 4:33 am (#1871 of 1957)
Edited Aug 12, 2007 5:36 am
Remi, you said something elsewhere about the inconsistencies between JKR's webchat and her interview with Meredith Viera. I thought the most glaring one concerned Ron -- in the Viera interview, she said that Harry and Ron revolutionized the Auror department in the Ministry. Then in the webchat she said that Ron went into the Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes business with George after Fred's demise, and then in a later question about George's future she said something like, "... remaining in business assisted by his brother Ron."
So which was it -- Ron in the Ministry or Ron at Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes? I guess she could take the convenient route and say he did both -- mainly silent business partner at WWW while working his day job at the Ministry or something. Or maybe the "revolutionizing" only consisted of them having set a new example by what they did during the Horcrux hunt, which led to the re-making of the Auror office's training principles or something.
Remi - Aug 12, 2007 7:33 am (#1872 of 1957)
OOh - I'm so glad you totally picked up on one of the things I was alluding to! It was in the Luna-thread, so I deleted my para about the two occupations for Ron. Yes, he could've done both, or started out with Harry in the Auror Department and then quit to work with George, but either way I thought it wasn't consistent.
I HATE finding fault with Jo. I feel like it's biting the hand that feeds me - she has giving me so much pure joy over the past 7 years, yet I'm well aware of the inconsistencies within the books not to mention information from her interviews, etc. (Don't get me started about how the fidelis charm works).
SO, with Ron I will imagine that he has the best of both worlds - fighting dark wizards with Harry, and in his spare time selling Decoy Detonators with George. And of course, raising Hugo & Rose with Hermione
Luna Logic - Aug 12, 2007 10:53 am (#1873 of 1957)
Edited by Aug 12, 2007 11:53 am
On Ron 's career, I think the important point is choice: And I think his choice was to be auror. Not to be a replacement for George... IMO George must learn live his own life as hard as it is - here I know I could disagree with Jo Rowling...
-----------------
On another subject : In the Lord Voldemort/Tom Riddle thread, a discussion began about Ron speaking (a word) in Parseltongue at the end of DH.
Madame Pomfrey : I would imagine you could learn Parceltongue just like any other language. I just don't think many do because it's connected to the Dark Arts.However,I think it must be very hard to accomplish. Jo said in her webchat that Dumbledore could speak it. The man's brilliant! she said. I was impressed with Ron for remembering the words Harry used to open the locket, so he could get in the chamber. He doesn't normally pay too close attention to detail.
Legolas return: Ron was starting to remember detail in relation to events that traumatised him. He repeated something about food being exception to Gamps Law of Elemental transfiguration when in the ROR. This was probably due to the enforced hunger. I am sure Rons mental torture by the locket Tom would result in the whole event being etched eternally in his mind.
I like very much Legolas return‘s explanation. I had noticed the "food being exception to Gamps Law of Elemental transfiguration" bit also, but I didn't knew what to do with it! To link the two items makes great sense.
I like Ron character, and his evolution, in DH...
NFla Barbara - Aug 12, 2007 8:08 pm (#1874 of 1957)
Ron's choice would be to be an auror, I am sure. Plus, we know he is married to Hermione 19 years later, and I really cannot imagine her being terribly thrilled with someone whose main purpose in life was a joke shop (she might have softened, but that would really require a complete character overhaul). I can imagine, however, that he somehow did both...perhaps taking a role at the shop allowed him the flexibility that he and Hermione would need for her to take on the legal predicament of house elves and other disadvantaged species in the WW.
I was also terribly worried that Ron would make the big sacrifice in DH, and relieved that he did not have to.
Die Zimtzicke - Aug 12, 2007 8:19 pm (#1875 of 1957)
How hard would it have been for Jo to say, "Ron helped George get the shop back on its feet, then finished school and became an auror" or something like that? It would have taken her no time at all. I'm not going to twist myself into a pretzel to defend Jo when she says things that are hard to understand.
Mrs. Sirius - Aug 19, 2007 10:05 pm (#1876 of 1957)
Edited Aug 19, 2007 11:10 pm
Legolas return: Ron was starting to remember detail in relation to events that traumatised him. He repeated something about food being exception to Gamps Law of Elemental transfiguration when in the ROR. This was probably due to the enforced hunger. I am sure Rons mental torture by the locket Tom would result in the whole event being etched eternally in his mind.
Let's not forget that Ron has spent 7 years with Hermione, the last one of which he spent living with her under extradinary circumstances. He hadn't paid much attention to the intellectual stuff over the years because, well he didn't have to. He was brave, a Griffydor.
But now Hermione has said to him, I paraphrase, "rack your brains Ron, it shouldn't take too long". When he complained that they didn't have enough food while on the run, but that his mother was always able to conjure enough, Hermione blew her top and explained how that worked.
This line is right in keeping with his thought before the battle of getting the house elves out for their safety before the battle begins. Ron is growing and learning under Hermione's influence.
In 19 years I see nothing wrong or odd about Ron revolutionizing the Auror department and moving on to working with George. Remember, Ron is second best.
But now he has proved himself in the battle and stood shoulder to shoulder with Harry Potter. They go forward and revolutionize the department, he now has nothing to prove. Ron doesn't seem the office kind of guy. Once that task is completed, he can go home and work at something he really wants/likes. Ron and all the Weasleys are all about family.In 19 years i see him do a job to an out standing degree and then leave at his height.
Luna Logic - Aug 19, 2007 11:00 pm (#1877 of 1957)
I agree with your analysis of Ron' evolution in DH, Mrs Sirius. I will add that in DH, for the first time, Ron had not an "environment" which was taking him in charge. Thus, he had to learn, intellectually speaking also, to cope with things. And he must have meditated a lot during the month and a half (quite so?) when he was without his friends at Shell Cottage.
But after the war? We know that Ron wanted to be an auror. That job is not an office job IMO (see Moody or Shaklebolt). Ron could have changed some ways of doing the job, not by sitting in an office, but by practicing and demonstrating practice to others aurors.
Xenophilius - Aug 20, 2007 4:00 am (#1878 of 1957)
Don't forget Ron was confronted with his insecurities and symbolically destroyed them when he destroys the locket. It is after that act that he grows as a character amd becomes a full partner to Harry and Hermione. He is no longer second to either of them.
NFla Barbara - Aug 20, 2007 4:15 am (#1879 of 1957)
Yes, which makes it less plausible to me that his career would be helping George in the shop. Of course he would help -- they're family. But Ron isn't just a spare brother who can substitute for Fred -- he would have a life of his own.
Lilly P - Aug 20, 2007 8:26 am (#1880 of 1957)
Remi, you said something elsewhere about the inconsistencies between JKR's webchat and her interview with Meredith Viera. I thought the most glaring one concerned Ron -- in the Viera interview, she said that Harry and Ron revolutionized the Auror department in the Ministry. Then in the webchat she said that Ron went into the Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes business with George after Fred's demise, and then in a later question about George's future she said something like, "... remaining in business assisted by his brother Ron."
So which was it -- Ron in the Ministry or Ron at Weasley's Wizarding Wheezes? I guess she could take the convenient route and say he did both -- mainly silent business partner at WWW while working his day job at the Ministry or something. Or maybe the "revolutionizing" only consisted of them having set a new example by what they did during the Horcrux hunt, which led to the re-making of the Auror office's training principles or something. Madame Pince
This makes me think back to when Mr. Weasley (Arthur) was so impressed with Fred and Georges Hats with the shielding charms that made your head dissappear. He said somthing along the lines about how "you would be suprissed at how many witches and wizards can't even do a simple shielding charm anymore" Maby Harry (silent partner in WWW) Ron and George revolutionized the Auror Department by providing them with them with products that helped them, such as shielding equipment, purivian darkness powder suppliers, the little ducks that waddel off and creat a distraction somewhere else ect.... they could have become civialian "consultants" like the ones my hubby worked with when he was in the military, they provided things like bullet proof vests and armor plating. Maby they didn't have to work for the Ministry to revolutionize it. JM2KW
Jamie
NFla Barbara - Aug 20, 2007 12:48 pm (#1881 of 1957)
I like your version. ; )
Jenniffler - Aug 21, 2007 8:16 pm (#1882 of 1957)
# Chapter Twenty - Xenophilius Lovegood #22 - haymoni We had a thread about Ron's predictions - I guess we could add Voldy's name actually being Taboo as one of them.
Wohoo! Someone finally found Ron predicting something in DH. I guess, like before it took some thought to piece together the cause and effect. My eyes are still open for other quirky incidences of Ron foreshadowing what was to come next. But obviously, it's likely a more expert poster will get to it before me. Yay.
journeymom - Aug 21, 2007 10:45 pm (#1883 of 1957)
Good one. I got shivers when Ron said that. Prior to Deathly Hallows I'd wondered if the DE's literally could not speak Voldemort's name without Voldemort being aware of it, that it was some how linked to their dark marks. I was sort of right. It wasn't till the last book, and the taboo applied to everybody, not just the Death Eaters.
Pigwidgeon - Aug 28, 2007 8:04 am (#1884 of 1957)
OK, slight switch of direction for a goofy question. The hat Ron wears in Prisoner of Azkaban (for winter, during the Hogsmeade scene). Does that type of hat have a specific name?
Snuffles - Aug 28, 2007 1:24 pm (#1885 of 1957)
I think it's just called a tassled Beanie hat. I could be wrong, it has been known before!
Die Zimtzicke - Aug 29, 2007 5:18 am (#1886 of 1957)
Hats with ear flaps are usually hunting caps, because you can fold down the ear part and tie it to keep warm, or fold it up and leave it untied to be able to listen for small sounds, but I've never seen a knit one before.
journeymom - Aug 29, 2007 7:57 am (#1887 of 1957)
It's a sherpa cap. I googled images of 'sherpa knit cap' and 'sherpa knit hat' and found references to Ron.
Pigwidgeon - Aug 30, 2007 4:33 am (#1888 of 1957)
Thank you! I really appreciate this
I had no end of trouble trying to find this out.legolas returns - Sep 3, 2007 3:00 pm (#1889 of 1957)
In the nineteen years that passed between the end of DH and the epilogue Ron doesn't seem to have changed that much. Bless him! .
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 3, 2007 7:46 pm (#1890 of 1957)
Legolas I really liked the line about him being famous. He changed enough to not be jealous of Harry any more! LPO
legolas returns - Sep 3, 2007 10:27 pm (#1891 of 1957)
I really meant the dislike of slytherin house and telling his children that he would disown them if they were not in Gryfindor. No pressure
maria cloos - Sep 4, 2007 11:09 am (#1892 of 1957)
Lol, legolas. I dont' know that he was serious (nor that he wasn't) about disowning the kids if they weren't in Gryffindor. I just thought it was funny when he confessed to Harry that he used a confundus charm on the driving tester. I almost died! It's just so typical of Ron, although I am admittedly very proud that Ron actually learned how to drive!
legolas returns - Sep 4, 2007 11:12 am (#1893 of 1957)
He followed that by telling him that his father would never speak to them again if they married a pure blood. The whole conversation between Ron/Harry and the families made me laugh.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Sep 15, 2007 1:37 pm (#1894 of 1957)
When I first read the conversation I was disappointed. When I heard it on the audio book I really laughed. They may be all grown up by they haven't changed much. I loved how Ron was glad Rose had her mother's brains. LPO
Liz Mann - Oct 25, 2007 4:24 pm (#1895 of 1957)
Edited Oct 25, 2007 5:26 pm
Has anyone on here read HPANA's article about the Carnegie Hall reading in New York? Someone from HPAPA was there, and someone asked what would have occured had Arthur died in OotP. J.K. said that Ron would have lost his sense of humour and taken away Harry's refuge at The Burrow. She also said that Ron's humour stemmed from insecurities and immaturity and that he was the last to become an adult by facing his fears in the last book.
I actually felt a twinge of horror at the idea of Ron losing his sense of humour, especially because of his dad dying. He wouldn't have been really Ron anymore, and his humour was the reason I loved him so much when I first read the books at fifteen. So glad Mr Weasley did not die!
Madam Pince - Oct 25, 2007 5:30 pm (#1896 of 1957)
I was just reading that myself Liz, and I agree -- what a horror it would've been to have Ron change like that! I thought it was bad enough the way he changed while they were "on the run" and he didn't have enough to eat!
Liz Mann - Oct 26, 2007 9:48 am (#1897 of 1957)
Edited Oct 26, 2007 10:48 am
Well that was largely because of the Horcrux around his neck. The effects of Mr Weasley's death would have been much more Ron himself.
Madam Pince - Oct 26, 2007 3:17 pm (#1898 of 1957)
True. I guess what I was meaning is that it's just very hard to see someone that you're close to transform or change for the worse. It was painful enough to watch Ron change just for the space of a few weeks -- it would be terrible if he changed permanently due to the death of his father.
freshwater - Dec 10, 2007 12:18 pm (#1899 of 1957)
While reading DH I was initially disappointed in Ron for becoming so irrascible and eventually abandoning Harry and Hermione, even though it was largely due to the effect of the locket horcrux. But as I've mulled over the story these last few months, I've come to see those events is a different light.
Throughout DH, JKR shows us how various characters react to the challenges and trials they face. Ron's reactions don't really mean he is weak. It is just another example of how humans react under pressure.....and it often does not show us at our best, or, at least, not immediately. Ron's response to the evil of the locket horcrux, and to the minor trials of poor food and uncomfortable lodging is an example of how even the best of us can be overwhelmed by a series of minor problems. I've no doubt that in any major conflict or decision, Ron would have faced down anything and everything to help Harry. But it is so often the small, irritating matters that lay us low, rather than the grand, dramatic events. Like that old saying, "It's the pebble in your shoe that wears you down, not the mountain before you."
I also love the way Ron immediately regretted his actions and wanted to return, but was prevented.....a good lesson for us to not judge someone before knowing all the circumstances. And I love the manner of his return: saving Harry in the pool, facing his greatest fears and then destroying the locket, and sorting things out with Harry. By that point in the book he was, IMHO, already 3/4 of the way to the Ron who wanted to warn the house elves to escape Hogwarts.
Vox Gerbilis - Dec 10, 2007 6:31 pm (#1900 of 1957)
Great post, Freshwater. I empathized with Ron throughout his forest trials, because I'm also easily worn down by cumulative minor discomforts. I was deeply moved by his confrontation with the Horcrux images. He had to face his worse fears, with Harry seeing everything. The redemption and reconciliation after he pierced the locket brought me to tears.
Mona- Hufflepuff Prefect
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Madam Pince - Dec 12, 2007 4:44 am (#1901 of 1957)
I just posted this elsewhere, but it fits here too. I am currently listening to the books on audiotape. When I first read DH, I did not empathize with "angry Ron" at all and was irritated with his behavior in the forest -- I just wanted to shake him and say "Suck it up, buddy! Everyone else is hungry, too!" I thought the appetite excuse was a big cop-out. However, upon "listening" (a new format for me) I am picking up on the HUGE number of references in just the two early books I've gotten to so far -- PoA and CoS -- to Ron being hungry, saying "I'm starving," getting excited about dinnertime, etc. I must have a bad habit of skimming in reading, because I never noticed those at all in my first reads, so the reactions he had to being hungry in DH seemed very odd to me. But now I'm seeing (hearing, actually) how very important eating was to Ron.
In fact, whenever JKR got excessively descriptive about meals in the books, I just thought to myself "She must've been hungry while she was writing this -- she should stop driving herself so hard to finish and take a break to eat once in awhile!" It didn't dawn on me that something as mundane as eating could be a big plot point later for Ron.
PeskyPixie - Dec 12, 2007 11:05 am (#1902 of 1957)
I picked up quite early on Ron as the quintessential 'growing boy'. As much as he complains of being poor, Gamp's Law and a caring mom allow him to be quite well fed and provided for. He's been spoiled (not in a bad sense ) far more than he realizes.
Orion - Dec 12, 2007 12:25 pm (#1903 of 1957)
What do you mean, Pesky? I thought Gamp's Law was exactly the problem, that is, you can't get enough food if you're poor, not by magic.
PeskyPixie - Dec 12, 2007 1:47 pm (#1904 of 1957)
You can increase what food you have by the use of Gamp's Law. I feel this is the reason why Mrs. Weasley is able to feed her large family (and the friends always present at her table) so well.
Liz Mann - Dec 12, 2007 3:34 pm (#1905 of 1957)
It is possible that lack of food might have just been an excuse. Still true, of course, but not the main reason. Harry and Hermione were brainstorming with each other when Ron started acting up, and I think the real reason for him going off on one was the jealousy thing.
Chemyst - Dec 12, 2007 4:18 pm (#1906 of 1957)
Cold, tired, hungry and jealous! Any one of which could have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. 'Probably was having a bad hair day too.
Luna Logic - Dec 13, 2007 3:14 am (#1907 of 1957)
a bad hair day ? (Luna Logic, on her cultural trip again? !)
Potteraholic - Dec 14, 2007 12:51 pm (#1908 of 1957)
Am posting this excerpt from the Dec. 14th issue of Entertainment Weekly's DVD section about OotP in a few threads since Ron's eating habits are popping up all over:
And most important, the teen actors get better with every outing. The confused look on Ron's (Rupert Grint) face as Hermione snippily asks, "Do you ever stop eating?'" is simply wonderful. It's one of the most natural recation shots in the entire series, a three-second distillation of what makes 'Phoenix' perhaps the best Potter film yet.
And Luna Logic, a bad hair day is when a person's hair is not looking it's best, thereby putting the owner of said hair in a very grumpy mood that day!
Orion - Dec 14, 2007 1:17 pm (#1909 of 1957)
Yes, Grint is very good. Give him more lines!
Liz Mann - Dec 14, 2007 3:52 pm (#1910 of 1957)
Give him more non-whiny, non-whimpy lines.
Orion - Dec 15, 2007 7:18 am (#1911 of 1957)
Give him back his own lines, for starters. Hermione has lots of lines of her own.
Potteraholic - Dec 15, 2007 7:43 am (#1912 of 1957)
I think my recent post about what 'Entertainment Weekly' published about the OotP DVD is moving this thread in a more movie discussion direction. Maybe these comments should continue on that thread so that the moderaters/hosts don't have to post a reminder later. I'll put my post there.
PS I agree wholeheartedly with you, Liz Mann and Orion!
Orion - Dec 17, 2007 9:25 am (#1913 of 1957)
"You can increase what food you have by the use of Gamp's Law." (Pesky)
AHA! Plothole plothole! So in an ideal world, they could have simply sneaked into a supermarket under the cloak, grabbed one tiny amount of each important food group, paid for it and they could have gone on forever with this amount of food. Provided they left a tiny bit over. Why didn't they do it then?
Liz Mann - Dec 17, 2007 12:23 pm (#1914 of 1957)
Maybe you can only increase it so many times.
Orion - Dec 17, 2007 1:06 pm (#1915 of 1957)
Yes, and maybe it gets bad like any other food. Maybe they would have had to go regularly to refill their supplies. Still...
Hermione should have made sure to have access to her bank account to get hold of muggle money.
PeskyPixie - Dec 17, 2007 1:26 pm (#1916 of 1957)
I think she does empty out her Muggle account and put the contents of it into her beaded purse.
haymoni- Dec 22, 2007 3:03 pm (#1917 of 1957)
I thought Ron's reactions to the Horcrux showed that nothing really terrible had ever happened to him.
Yes, he complains about being poor and that everything he has is rubbish, but he had everything that really truly mattered - family, parents that loved and supported him, etc.
I think the Horcrux bothered him at the base needs - food - because he had everything else.
And the whole growing boy thing.
Of course, Harry was used to being starved by the Dursleys and Hermione seems to be thinking of everything else, so she isn't stuck on being hungry.
Edit: I'm actually surprised that the brains from the Ministry didn't bother him more. I thought we would see some reminants of that.
PeskyPixie - Jul 31, 2008 10:39 am (#1918 of 1957)
I can't remember what Ron becomes after 'dropping out' of Hogwarts. Does he become an Auror or 'replace' Fred (I know he really can't be replaced) at the joke shop?
Choices - Jul 31, 2008 5:14 pm (#1919 of 1957)
According to Jo in her interview - post release of DH - Ron joins George working at W.W.W. in Diagon Alley.
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 3:19 am (#1920 of 1957)
Edited Aug 1, 2008 4:20 am
Here is what Rowling said:
As for his occupation, Harry, along with Ron, is working at the Auror Department at the Ministry of Magic. After all these years, Harry is now the department head.
“Harry and Ron utterly revolutionized the Auror Department,” Rowling said. “They are now the experts. It doesn’t matter how old they are or what else they’ve done.”
Meanwhile, Hermione, Ron’s wife, is “pretty high up” in the Department of Magical Law Enforcement, despite laughing at the idea of becoming a lawyer in “Deathly Hallows.”
“I would imagine that her brainpower and her knowledge of how the Dark Arts operate would really give her a sound grounding,” Rowling said.
Harry, Ron and Hermione don’t join the same Ministry of Magic they had been at odds with for years; they revolutionize it and the ministry evolves into a “really good place to be.”
“They made a new world,” Rowling said.
Here is the website: today.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323/ (no [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Solitaire
Madam Pince - Aug 1, 2008 10:14 am (#1921 of 1957)
Edited Aug 1, 2008 11:14 am
So he does both, then. I do remember that interview where she said he worked at the joke shop. Maybe he worked at the joke shop awhile and then went into the Ministry? JKR wasn't really very clear. (Or else she changed her mind after the one interview and before the second one... which wouldn't be entirely surprising. I expect she was exhausted and sleep-deprived and everything was in a total whirlwind those first few days after the release...)
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 10:24 am (#1922 of 1957)
Perhaps Harry brought him in when he was made head of the Auror department.
Madam Pince - Aug 1, 2008 10:32 am (#1923 of 1957)
I can just hear Cormac McLaggen shouting "Nepotism!" already... LOL!
Hoot Owl - Aug 1, 2008 11:48 am (#1924 of 1957)
Edited Aug 1, 2008 12:49 pm
I was under the impression that Harry, Ron and Neville all became aurors during the emergency period, right after the war. The Auror Department would have had few aurors that were not compromised or dead, (after all dark wizards had been in charge for nine months.) After awhile Ron And Neville move on to other careers and Harry became Head of the Department.
I believe JKR said something along these lines, but I don't know where or when.
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 12:32 pm (#1925 of 1957)
Hoot Owl, check post #1910, in which I've pasted Jo's comments about Ron and Harry in the Auror Department of the Ministry. I copied them from the transcript of one of her post-DH question-and-answer sessions.
Solitaire
PeskyPixie - Aug 1, 2008 3:07 pm (#1926 of 1957)
No offence, but Ron isn't exactly Auror material. He's the weakest link in the trio with a big heart who has done a few important things ... but I wouldn't think he'd be able to make a career out of it. Besides, the joke shop needs him and he'd be happier there anyway.
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 5:08 pm (#1927 of 1957)
I agree, actually, Pesky! Perhaps he did the Auror thing first, and then he decided it might be more fun to work with George ... especially since both were probably missing Fred like crazy.
Solitaire
PeskyPixie - Aug 1, 2008 8:49 pm (#1928 of 1957)
Oh my, Soli and I actually agree on something!
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 9:12 pm (#1929 of 1957)
On the IMPORTANT things.
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 2, 2008 6:46 am (#1930 of 1957)
I had hoped Ron went to help George with the shop first, and later joined the Auror department and brought useful WWW gadgetry to the table. Fred and George were lousy at seeing the practical potential in their inventions, but I suspect Ron would be better at it.
Chemyst - Aug 12, 2008 4:55 am (#1931 of 1957)
26 JULY 2007 - Today Show interview - Ron joined auror dept. (Soli's quote came originally from there.)
30 JULY 2007 - Bloomsbury Live Chat - Ron joins George at the joke shop which becomes a "money spinner."
I have a real life to move on to, so I'm not going to spend a whole lot more time looking stuff up here, but it seems most logical that Ron played a part in the "reformation" stage of the MOM overhaul under Shacklebolt, and then went on to work his way out from under the curse of poverty at the joke shop.
PeskyPixie - Aug 12, 2008 2:44 pm (#1932 of 1957)
I think JKR responded without thinking when she said that he became an Auror. Harry, even without training, I could imagine as important to the field of catching Dark wizards, but Ron doesn't seem ready for this at the end of DH.
Liz Mann - Aug 14, 2008 11:31 am (#1933 of 1957)
Edited Aug 14, 2008 12:32 pm
She said in the PotterCast interview that Kingsley would have wanted everyone who fought in the Battle of Hogwarts to join the Aurors to help repair the damage after the war, including Harry, Ron and Neville. So I should think Ron did the Auror thing first, then he and Neville left, Ron went to WWW and Neville went to teach herbology.
Hoot Owl - Aug 14, 2008 9:29 pm (#1934 of 1957)
Thank you Liz I knew I heard that somewhere!
PeskyPixie - Sep 5, 2008 9:45 am (#1935 of 1957)
I remember that as well. However, I still find it extremely simplistic, even silly, to claim that everyone who fought at the BoH joined the Aurors. I could imagine the Auror department extensively questioning the fighters, but I don't think that fighting in this one battle automatically makes a person an Auror. Harry, with training, I could see as an Auror. Ron, no. He could definitely share his experience with the Aurors, but I don't think he's capable of being one himself.
Liz Mann - Sep 11, 2008 5:02 am (#1936 of 1957)
Seeing that they didn't all stay, they were probably just temporary volunteers for the Auror department rather than actual Aurors.
PeskyPixie - Sep 11, 2008 7:47 am (#1937 of 1957)
Volunteering at the Auror department makes sense to me, Liz. I had just interpreted JKR's first comments regarding Ron's occupation to mean that he became an Auror after fighting in the Battle of Hogwarts.
Orion - Sep 11, 2008 1:19 pm (#1938 of 1957)
It's quite sensible for the Auror department to stick to the reliable persons first because they don't want to be undermined by DE spies. At least for interviewing them and taking statements. Ron had a lot of information to share and then that was it.
Ron's career is a bit sad. Not bright enough to be an Auror (although he is very funny, and I always thought that wit is the surest intelligence test, but he is not the academic type), and definitely not Fred, there is no real place for him in the world. When George looks at him it is always with a pang of sadness because he would prefer to see Fred there. And Ron too must miss Fred like mad. It must be quite subdued in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
PeskyPixie - Sep 11, 2008 2:01 pm (#1939 of 1957)
Yeah, I'll never forgive JKR for killing off Fred.
shepherdess - Sep 13, 2008 7:43 pm (#1940 of 1957)
Edited Sep 13, 2008 8:43 pm
I don't believe that time heals all wounds; but I know from experience that time lessens the pain and enables one to adjust to new circumstances.
It's true that Ron isn't Fred (neither is George, for that matter), but that doesn't mean that George would forever feel a since of loss every time he looks at Ron. Ron is George's brother too, after all, and I'm sure they would find a way to work together and establish their own working relationship, without Ron having to turn into Fred. And it wouldn't be fair to Ron to expect him to.
My humble opinion.
Orion - Sep 14, 2008 2:10 am (#1941 of 1957)
It must be hard for Ron to grow into a relationship with George which is completely equal because still in HBP the twins mercilessly pick on Ron. And Ron doesn't have a very good self-esteem anyway. If he didn't have Hermione, he would be lost. He's really lucky to have her.
I know two people who have lost a sibling, a woman who lost her sister and a man who lost his brother. No one of them ever got over it properly. There is a cloud of sadness around them which I only understood when I heard their stories. None of them married, and they live quite a solitary life without much entertainment or sociality. So maybe my vision is a bit biased.
Solitaire - Sep 14, 2008 3:46 am (#1942 of 1957)
As close as Fred & George were, I suspect George will always feel that a part of himself is missing ... more than just his ear. Ron can never fill that particular void, and I do not think he would even try. As much as the twins picked on Ron, though, he still loved and admired them deeply, and they loved him. I can see Ron wanting to be as close to George as possible at this time, to kind of help heal his own sense of loss.
Solitaire
Mrs Brisbee - Sep 14, 2008 4:51 am (#1943 of 1957)
Edited Sep 14, 2008 5:52 am
I agree with Shepherdess and Solitaire. George will always feel the loss of Fred, but he can still appreciate Ron being there for him.
And Ron has grown so much by the end of DH. He is not the same insecure little brother. I think he will do well.
TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 14, 2008 2:38 pm (#1944 of 1957)
Ok, I am curious, how does one, "No one of them ever got over it properly.", get over the death of one close "properly"?
By HBP, and certainaly by DH, Ron has grown tremendously. He has a GREAT support system, besides Herminone, his family. A funny thing about twins, they do mercilessly pick on their siblings, it is, at least with my twins, their way of showing how much they care. Mine are 27 years old now, and still do it. But NEVER let an outsider do it, or you have both of them, plus the siblings to fight. Their picking is done just as Fred and George's, in jest. If they cross the line, and it has happened, they also make it right, 'tis called growing up.
I agree with Mrs B, Ron has grown,as has his family, and will do fine
Betelgeuse Black - May 20, 2009 6:55 pm (#1945 of 1957)
I would say that Ron started showing some good thinking at the end of DH. It was his idea to go get the basilisk fangs. He opened the chamber of secrets. He urged Hermione to "kill" the cup horcrux since it felt right. Ron saved Harry from the locket. Ron showed a lot of leadership after the silver doe by keeping the trio moving.
Ron is not the hero that Harry is but he did show signs of initiative. He has his faults (wanting the elder wand) but who among us doesn't? He has a lot of brothers to compete with. I'm very familiar with that scenario.
Therefore, I think Ron would be a solid auror but I don't think he'd lead the auror department. I don't think he'd want to lead the auror department anyway.
Betelgeuse
Steve Newton - May 21, 2009 6:28 am (#1946 of 1957)
I think that there are signs in HBP that Ron is coming along. For much of this he, not Hermione, is the one that gives Harry the answers.
Liz Mann - Jun 3, 2009 11:57 am (#1947 of 1957)
Edited Jun 3, 2009 12:58 pm
The thing about Ron I think is that he went through a rough patch in books five and six. In the early books he was perfectly capable, but then when he became prefect it was like suddenly he had a shot at what he saw in the Mirror of Erised coming true and it piled the pressure on, and we know how he reacts to pressure. He calmed down again in book seven and became more of the Ron he used to be. I kind of give Harry the credit for that with the Felix Felicis trick. He restored Ron's confidence.
haymoni- Jul 5, 2009 6:26 am (#1948 of 1957)
Rupert Grint has H1N1.
What would be the equivalent in the Wizarding World?
Could Ron get Niffler Flu???
Orion - Jul 5, 2009 7:59 am (#1949 of 1957)
Spattergroit? Honestly, H1N1? Well, it's no more dangerous than any other flu, so ***healing charms*** in his direction. Hopefully he doesn't sprout a curly tail.
Thom Matheson - Jul 5, 2009 5:55 pm (#1950 of 1957)
In the WW would that be a Hagrid spell?
PeskyPixie - Jul 5, 2009 6:34 pm (#1951 of 1957)
I've heard that Grint has recovered, so that's great news.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2009 6:02 pm (#1952 of 1957)
BBC has an interview with him talking about his illness. Didn't sound too series. LPO
Choices - Jul 9, 2009 8:03 am (#1953 of 1957)
Edited Jul 9, 2009 9:05 am
And it wasn't serious (or sirius) either. LOL
Solitaire - Jul 9, 2009 8:55 am (#1954 of 1957)
It sounds as though he had only a mild case. Still, I hate any flu, and I'd have been scared if I were diagnosed with swine flu. What is worrisome is that, if he contracted it on the set, others might also have been exposed.
Choices - Feb 28, 2010 7:01 pm (#1955 of 1957)
Happy March 1st Birthday Ron. Hope you have a magical day! :-)
(I'm sure it's March 1st somewhere.....LOL
mona amon - Feb 28, 2010 8:10 pm (#1956 of 1957)
It's March 1st out here in India, Choices!
Happy Birthday, Ron!
Liz Mann - Mar 3, 2010 12:31 pm (#1957 of 1957)
30 years old! Good grief. Happy birthday Ron.
I just posted this elsewhere, but it fits here too. I am currently listening to the books on audiotape. When I first read DH, I did not empathize with "angry Ron" at all and was irritated with his behavior in the forest -- I just wanted to shake him and say "Suck it up, buddy! Everyone else is hungry, too!" I thought the appetite excuse was a big cop-out. However, upon "listening" (a new format for me) I am picking up on the HUGE number of references in just the two early books I've gotten to so far -- PoA and CoS -- to Ron being hungry, saying "I'm starving," getting excited about dinnertime, etc. I must have a bad habit of skimming in reading, because I never noticed those at all in my first reads, so the reactions he had to being hungry in DH seemed very odd to me. But now I'm seeing (hearing, actually) how very important eating was to Ron.
In fact, whenever JKR got excessively descriptive about meals in the books, I just thought to myself "She must've been hungry while she was writing this -- she should stop driving herself so hard to finish and take a break to eat once in awhile!" It didn't dawn on me that something as mundane as eating could be a big plot point later for Ron.
PeskyPixie - Dec 12, 2007 11:05 am (#1902 of 1957)
I picked up quite early on Ron as the quintessential 'growing boy'. As much as he complains of being poor, Gamp's Law and a caring mom allow him to be quite well fed and provided for. He's been spoiled (not in a bad sense ) far more than he realizes.
Orion - Dec 12, 2007 12:25 pm (#1903 of 1957)
What do you mean, Pesky? I thought Gamp's Law was exactly the problem, that is, you can't get enough food if you're poor, not by magic.
PeskyPixie - Dec 12, 2007 1:47 pm (#1904 of 1957)
You can increase what food you have by the use of Gamp's Law. I feel this is the reason why Mrs. Weasley is able to feed her large family (and the friends always present at her table) so well.
Liz Mann - Dec 12, 2007 3:34 pm (#1905 of 1957)
It is possible that lack of food might have just been an excuse. Still true, of course, but not the main reason. Harry and Hermione were brainstorming with each other when Ron started acting up, and I think the real reason for him going off on one was the jealousy thing.
Chemyst - Dec 12, 2007 4:18 pm (#1906 of 1957)
Cold, tired, hungry and jealous! Any one of which could have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. 'Probably was having a bad hair day too.
Luna Logic - Dec 13, 2007 3:14 am (#1907 of 1957)
a bad hair day ? (Luna Logic, on her cultural trip again? !)
Potteraholic - Dec 14, 2007 12:51 pm (#1908 of 1957)
Am posting this excerpt from the Dec. 14th issue of Entertainment Weekly's DVD section about OotP in a few threads since Ron's eating habits are popping up all over:
And most important, the teen actors get better with every outing. The confused look on Ron's (Rupert Grint) face as Hermione snippily asks, "Do you ever stop eating?'" is simply wonderful. It's one of the most natural recation shots in the entire series, a three-second distillation of what makes 'Phoenix' perhaps the best Potter film yet.
And Luna Logic, a bad hair day is when a person's hair is not looking it's best, thereby putting the owner of said hair in a very grumpy mood that day!
Orion - Dec 14, 2007 1:17 pm (#1909 of 1957)
Yes, Grint is very good. Give him more lines!
Liz Mann - Dec 14, 2007 3:52 pm (#1910 of 1957)
Give him more non-whiny, non-whimpy lines.
Orion - Dec 15, 2007 7:18 am (#1911 of 1957)
Give him back his own lines, for starters. Hermione has lots of lines of her own.
Potteraholic - Dec 15, 2007 7:43 am (#1912 of 1957)
I think my recent post about what 'Entertainment Weekly' published about the OotP DVD is moving this thread in a more movie discussion direction. Maybe these comments should continue on that thread so that the moderaters/hosts don't have to post a reminder later. I'll put my post there.
PS I agree wholeheartedly with you, Liz Mann and Orion!
Orion - Dec 17, 2007 9:25 am (#1913 of 1957)
"You can increase what food you have by the use of Gamp's Law." (Pesky)
AHA! Plothole plothole! So in an ideal world, they could have simply sneaked into a supermarket under the cloak, grabbed one tiny amount of each important food group, paid for it and they could have gone on forever with this amount of food. Provided they left a tiny bit over. Why didn't they do it then?
Liz Mann - Dec 17, 2007 12:23 pm (#1914 of 1957)
Maybe you can only increase it so many times.
Orion - Dec 17, 2007 1:06 pm (#1915 of 1957)
Yes, and maybe it gets bad like any other food. Maybe they would have had to go regularly to refill their supplies. Still...
Hermione should have made sure to have access to her bank account to get hold of muggle money.
PeskyPixie - Dec 17, 2007 1:26 pm (#1916 of 1957)
I think she does empty out her Muggle account and put the contents of it into her beaded purse.
haymoni- Dec 22, 2007 3:03 pm (#1917 of 1957)
I thought Ron's reactions to the Horcrux showed that nothing really terrible had ever happened to him.
Yes, he complains about being poor and that everything he has is rubbish, but he had everything that really truly mattered - family, parents that loved and supported him, etc.
I think the Horcrux bothered him at the base needs - food - because he had everything else.
And the whole growing boy thing.
Of course, Harry was used to being starved by the Dursleys and Hermione seems to be thinking of everything else, so she isn't stuck on being hungry.
Edit: I'm actually surprised that the brains from the Ministry didn't bother him more. I thought we would see some reminants of that.
PeskyPixie - Jul 31, 2008 10:39 am (#1918 of 1957)
I can't remember what Ron becomes after 'dropping out' of Hogwarts. Does he become an Auror or 'replace' Fred (I know he really can't be replaced) at the joke shop?
Choices - Jul 31, 2008 5:14 pm (#1919 of 1957)
According to Jo in her interview - post release of DH - Ron joins George working at W.W.W. in Diagon Alley.
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 3:19 am (#1920 of 1957)
Edited Aug 1, 2008 4:20 am
Here is what Rowling said:
As for his occupation, Harry, along with Ron, is working at the Auror Department at the Ministry of Magic. After all these years, Harry is now the department head.
“Harry and Ron utterly revolutionized the Auror Department,” Rowling said. “They are now the experts. It doesn’t matter how old they are or what else they’ve done.”
Meanwhile, Hermione, Ron’s wife, is “pretty high up” in the Department of Magical Law Enforcement, despite laughing at the idea of becoming a lawyer in “Deathly Hallows.”
“I would imagine that her brainpower and her knowledge of how the Dark Arts operate would really give her a sound grounding,” Rowling said.
Harry, Ron and Hermione don’t join the same Ministry of Magic they had been at odds with for years; they revolutionize it and the ministry evolves into a “really good place to be.”
“They made a new world,” Rowling said.
Here is the website: today.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323/ (no [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Solitaire
Madam Pince - Aug 1, 2008 10:14 am (#1921 of 1957)
Edited Aug 1, 2008 11:14 am
So he does both, then. I do remember that interview where she said he worked at the joke shop. Maybe he worked at the joke shop awhile and then went into the Ministry? JKR wasn't really very clear. (Or else she changed her mind after the one interview and before the second one... which wouldn't be entirely surprising. I expect she was exhausted and sleep-deprived and everything was in a total whirlwind those first few days after the release...)
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 10:24 am (#1922 of 1957)
Perhaps Harry brought him in when he was made head of the Auror department.
Madam Pince - Aug 1, 2008 10:32 am (#1923 of 1957)
I can just hear Cormac McLaggen shouting "Nepotism!" already... LOL!
Hoot Owl - Aug 1, 2008 11:48 am (#1924 of 1957)
Edited Aug 1, 2008 12:49 pm
I was under the impression that Harry, Ron and Neville all became aurors during the emergency period, right after the war. The Auror Department would have had few aurors that were not compromised or dead, (after all dark wizards had been in charge for nine months.) After awhile Ron And Neville move on to other careers and Harry became Head of the Department.
I believe JKR said something along these lines, but I don't know where or when.
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 12:32 pm (#1925 of 1957)
Hoot Owl, check post #1910, in which I've pasted Jo's comments about Ron and Harry in the Auror Department of the Ministry. I copied them from the transcript of one of her post-DH question-and-answer sessions.
Solitaire
PeskyPixie - Aug 1, 2008 3:07 pm (#1926 of 1957)
No offence, but Ron isn't exactly Auror material. He's the weakest link in the trio with a big heart who has done a few important things ... but I wouldn't think he'd be able to make a career out of it. Besides, the joke shop needs him and he'd be happier there anyway.
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 5:08 pm (#1927 of 1957)
I agree, actually, Pesky! Perhaps he did the Auror thing first, and then he decided it might be more fun to work with George ... especially since both were probably missing Fred like crazy.
Solitaire
PeskyPixie - Aug 1, 2008 8:49 pm (#1928 of 1957)
Oh my, Soli and I actually agree on something!
Solitaire - Aug 1, 2008 9:12 pm (#1929 of 1957)
On the IMPORTANT things.
Mrs Brisbee - Aug 2, 2008 6:46 am (#1930 of 1957)
I had hoped Ron went to help George with the shop first, and later joined the Auror department and brought useful WWW gadgetry to the table. Fred and George were lousy at seeing the practical potential in their inventions, but I suspect Ron would be better at it.
Chemyst - Aug 12, 2008 4:55 am (#1931 of 1957)
26 JULY 2007 - Today Show interview - Ron joined auror dept. (Soli's quote came originally from there.)
30 JULY 2007 - Bloomsbury Live Chat - Ron joins George at the joke shop which becomes a "money spinner."
I have a real life to move on to, so I'm not going to spend a whole lot more time looking stuff up here, but it seems most logical that Ron played a part in the "reformation" stage of the MOM overhaul under Shacklebolt, and then went on to work his way out from under the curse of poverty at the joke shop.
PeskyPixie - Aug 12, 2008 2:44 pm (#1932 of 1957)
I think JKR responded without thinking when she said that he became an Auror. Harry, even without training, I could imagine as important to the field of catching Dark wizards, but Ron doesn't seem ready for this at the end of DH.
Liz Mann - Aug 14, 2008 11:31 am (#1933 of 1957)
Edited Aug 14, 2008 12:32 pm
She said in the PotterCast interview that Kingsley would have wanted everyone who fought in the Battle of Hogwarts to join the Aurors to help repair the damage after the war, including Harry, Ron and Neville. So I should think Ron did the Auror thing first, then he and Neville left, Ron went to WWW and Neville went to teach herbology.
Hoot Owl - Aug 14, 2008 9:29 pm (#1934 of 1957)
Thank you Liz I knew I heard that somewhere!
PeskyPixie - Sep 5, 2008 9:45 am (#1935 of 1957)
I remember that as well. However, I still find it extremely simplistic, even silly, to claim that everyone who fought at the BoH joined the Aurors. I could imagine the Auror department extensively questioning the fighters, but I don't think that fighting in this one battle automatically makes a person an Auror. Harry, with training, I could see as an Auror. Ron, no. He could definitely share his experience with the Aurors, but I don't think he's capable of being one himself.
Liz Mann - Sep 11, 2008 5:02 am (#1936 of 1957)
Seeing that they didn't all stay, they were probably just temporary volunteers for the Auror department rather than actual Aurors.
PeskyPixie - Sep 11, 2008 7:47 am (#1937 of 1957)
Volunteering at the Auror department makes sense to me, Liz. I had just interpreted JKR's first comments regarding Ron's occupation to mean that he became an Auror after fighting in the Battle of Hogwarts.
Orion - Sep 11, 2008 1:19 pm (#1938 of 1957)
It's quite sensible for the Auror department to stick to the reliable persons first because they don't want to be undermined by DE spies. At least for interviewing them and taking statements. Ron had a lot of information to share and then that was it.
Ron's career is a bit sad. Not bright enough to be an Auror (although he is very funny, and I always thought that wit is the surest intelligence test, but he is not the academic type), and definitely not Fred, there is no real place for him in the world. When George looks at him it is always with a pang of sadness because he would prefer to see Fred there. And Ron too must miss Fred like mad. It must be quite subdued in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
PeskyPixie - Sep 11, 2008 2:01 pm (#1939 of 1957)
Yeah, I'll never forgive JKR for killing off Fred.
shepherdess - Sep 13, 2008 7:43 pm (#1940 of 1957)
Edited Sep 13, 2008 8:43 pm
I don't believe that time heals all wounds; but I know from experience that time lessens the pain and enables one to adjust to new circumstances.
It's true that Ron isn't Fred (neither is George, for that matter), but that doesn't mean that George would forever feel a since of loss every time he looks at Ron. Ron is George's brother too, after all, and I'm sure they would find a way to work together and establish their own working relationship, without Ron having to turn into Fred. And it wouldn't be fair to Ron to expect him to.
My humble opinion.
Orion - Sep 14, 2008 2:10 am (#1941 of 1957)
It must be hard for Ron to grow into a relationship with George which is completely equal because still in HBP the twins mercilessly pick on Ron. And Ron doesn't have a very good self-esteem anyway. If he didn't have Hermione, he would be lost. He's really lucky to have her.
I know two people who have lost a sibling, a woman who lost her sister and a man who lost his brother. No one of them ever got over it properly. There is a cloud of sadness around them which I only understood when I heard their stories. None of them married, and they live quite a solitary life without much entertainment or sociality. So maybe my vision is a bit biased.
Solitaire - Sep 14, 2008 3:46 am (#1942 of 1957)
As close as Fred & George were, I suspect George will always feel that a part of himself is missing ... more than just his ear. Ron can never fill that particular void, and I do not think he would even try. As much as the twins picked on Ron, though, he still loved and admired them deeply, and they loved him. I can see Ron wanting to be as close to George as possible at this time, to kind of help heal his own sense of loss.
Solitaire
Mrs Brisbee - Sep 14, 2008 4:51 am (#1943 of 1957)
Edited Sep 14, 2008 5:52 am
I agree with Shepherdess and Solitaire. George will always feel the loss of Fred, but he can still appreciate Ron being there for him.
And Ron has grown so much by the end of DH. He is not the same insecure little brother. I think he will do well.
TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 14, 2008 2:38 pm (#1944 of 1957)
Ok, I am curious, how does one, "No one of them ever got over it properly.", get over the death of one close "properly"?
By HBP, and certainaly by DH, Ron has grown tremendously. He has a GREAT support system, besides Herminone, his family. A funny thing about twins, they do mercilessly pick on their siblings, it is, at least with my twins, their way of showing how much they care. Mine are 27 years old now, and still do it. But NEVER let an outsider do it, or you have both of them, plus the siblings to fight. Their picking is done just as Fred and George's, in jest. If they cross the line, and it has happened, they also make it right, 'tis called growing up.
I agree with Mrs B, Ron has grown,as has his family, and will do fine
Betelgeuse Black - May 20, 2009 6:55 pm (#1945 of 1957)
I would say that Ron started showing some good thinking at the end of DH. It was his idea to go get the basilisk fangs. He opened the chamber of secrets. He urged Hermione to "kill" the cup horcrux since it felt right. Ron saved Harry from the locket. Ron showed a lot of leadership after the silver doe by keeping the trio moving.
Ron is not the hero that Harry is but he did show signs of initiative. He has his faults (wanting the elder wand) but who among us doesn't? He has a lot of brothers to compete with. I'm very familiar with that scenario.
Therefore, I think Ron would be a solid auror but I don't think he'd lead the auror department. I don't think he'd want to lead the auror department anyway.
Betelgeuse
Steve Newton - May 21, 2009 6:28 am (#1946 of 1957)
I think that there are signs in HBP that Ron is coming along. For much of this he, not Hermione, is the one that gives Harry the answers.
Liz Mann - Jun 3, 2009 11:57 am (#1947 of 1957)
Edited Jun 3, 2009 12:58 pm
The thing about Ron I think is that he went through a rough patch in books five and six. In the early books he was perfectly capable, but then when he became prefect it was like suddenly he had a shot at what he saw in the Mirror of Erised coming true and it piled the pressure on, and we know how he reacts to pressure. He calmed down again in book seven and became more of the Ron he used to be. I kind of give Harry the credit for that with the Felix Felicis trick. He restored Ron's confidence.
haymoni- Jul 5, 2009 6:26 am (#1948 of 1957)
Rupert Grint has H1N1.
What would be the equivalent in the Wizarding World?
Could Ron get Niffler Flu???
Orion - Jul 5, 2009 7:59 am (#1949 of 1957)
Spattergroit? Honestly, H1N1? Well, it's no more dangerous than any other flu, so ***healing charms*** in his direction. Hopefully he doesn't sprout a curly tail.
Thom Matheson - Jul 5, 2009 5:55 pm (#1950 of 1957)
In the WW would that be a Hagrid spell?
PeskyPixie - Jul 5, 2009 6:34 pm (#1951 of 1957)
I've heard that Grint has recovered, so that's great news.
Ludicrous Patents Office - Jul 8, 2009 6:02 pm (#1952 of 1957)
BBC has an interview with him talking about his illness. Didn't sound too series. LPO
Choices - Jul 9, 2009 8:03 am (#1953 of 1957)
Edited Jul 9, 2009 9:05 am
And it wasn't serious (or sirius) either. LOL
Solitaire - Jul 9, 2009 8:55 am (#1954 of 1957)
It sounds as though he had only a mild case. Still, I hate any flu, and I'd have been scared if I were diagnosed with swine flu. What is worrisome is that, if he contracted it on the set, others might also have been exposed.
Choices - Feb 28, 2010 7:01 pm (#1955 of 1957)
Happy March 1st Birthday Ron. Hope you have a magical day! :-)
(I'm sure it's March 1st somewhere.....LOL
mona amon - Feb 28, 2010 8:10 pm (#1956 of 1957)
It's March 1st out here in India, Choices!
Happy Birthday, Ron!
Liz Mann - Mar 3, 2010 12:31 pm (#1957 of 1957)
30 years old! Good grief. Happy birthday Ron.
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