-- Mark Evans (posts from Jan 7, 04 to Jul 12, 04)
Julia. - Jan 7, 2004 8:43 am
Edited by Kip Carter May 2, 2006 8:05 am
Mark Evans has been discussed all over the place on the Aunt Petunia and Dudley threads, so we thought it was about time he had his own. Is Mark a wizard? Is he related to Harry through his mum's side what do you all think?
This topic is an archive of a thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum hosted on World Crossing which ceased operation on April 15, 2011. ~ Mona
Julia. - Jan 7, 2004 8:43 am
Edited by Kip Carter May 2, 2006 8:05 am
Mark Evans has been discussed all over the place on the Aunt Petunia and Dudley threads, so we thought it was about time he had his own. Is Mark a wizard? Is he related to Harry through his mum's side what do you all think?
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A-is-for-Amy - Jan 7, 2004 9:53 am (#1 of 361)
Good idea Julia! At first, I thought Mark Evans smalled a little fishy (as in red herring), but it's a little too conincidental that he was one year shy of the Hogwarts starting age, and of course, his last name. JKR did say that she was putting new characters into OoP so that we weren't saying, "Where did they come from?!?" in the next book.
Casey Brown - Jan 7, 2004 12:16 pm (#2 of 361)
Hello. I'm thinking that Mark Evans could be a red herring but I think that he's just a character. Evans is a very common surname. And wouldn't he already be at Hogwarts. Well I guess he could already be going and Harry just hasn't noticed yet. I don't know. Anyhow I'm just thinking he's just a random character. We'll see I guess.
Madame Librarian - Jan 7, 2004 12:25 pm (#3 of 361)
Casey, I believe that if this Mark Evans is going to end up at Hogwarts, it will be at the beginning of book 6. At the beginning of OoP, he's only 10.
Jasmine Evans - Jan 7, 2004 12:47 pm (#4 of 361)
I suppose Evans is a common English name. On the other hand, I would be disappointed if Mark was just a random person. I think there is a reason why Rowling calls him Evans. Else she might as well have called him Jones or Brown or something like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if Mark Evans attends Hogwarts in book 6 and appears to be a relative to Harry. It might be far out or close.
Julia. - Jan 7, 2004 1:23 pm (#5 of 361)
I'm not entirely sure about Mark. I know Evans is a pretty common surname, but it is the same surname that Lily and Petunia had before they were married, and JKR doesn't throw names around like that. It's also too much of a concidence to tell us how old he is, which makes me think he'll be starting Hogwarts next year. The only flaw in this theory that I can see, is that Dumbledore tells us that Vernon and Petunia are the only family Harry has left. This is really a major problem, which could shoot the whole thing straight to Hades. What do you lot think?
OOOOOOHHHHHHHH, wouldn't it be fun if he went to Hogwarts and got sorted into Slytherin? I wonder what sorts of "inter-house unity" that could bring about. Hmmmm...
Hermionefan(#1) - Jan 7, 2004 2:59 pm (#6 of 361)
Well, yeah the only "flaw" I see is that Harry's not supposed to have any other family. Or, maybe there was something wrong about sending Harry to the Evan's house-- like maybe it wouldn't have been right for what Harry needed or something (not that Dudley meets Harry's needs). Well, I have no idea so you can ignore this post if you want.
virgoddess1313 - Jan 7, 2004 3:23 pm (#7 of 361)
Maybe he was an orphaned cousin who was adopted by a muggle family, that coincdentally turns out to live near the Dursley's.
Ok... that's a bit much for me, but you never know.
S.E. Jones - Jan 7, 2004 3:43 pm (#8 of 361)
Evans is a very common surname.
You know, I've heard this argument a lot but I just can't see it pointing to him just being another character. I agree that Evans is a common name in real life England, but Rowling's England is defined within literary constraints. She goes through the trouble of naming this boy in the same book we officially find out Lily's maiden name (the first time it is ever mentioned in the text, not interviews). She also goes through the trouble of pointing out that this boy is around an age that we know is of signifiicance in the wizarding world (11 being the age that wizards enter Hogwarts). In literary terms, I'd say this is a clue.
Hermionefan(#1): "Well, yeah the only "flaw" I see is that Harry's not supposed to have any other family."
I've got to agree with you on this one. Maybe Dumbledore's statements are just limited to blood relations? He could maybe related through marriage to Lily and Petunia, have the same last name, but not be a blood relative. Or, could he be a distant enough relative that the blood pact thing that protects Harry while with Petunia wouldn't work with Mark or his family?
timrew - Jan 7, 2004 3:51 pm (#9 of 361)
I agree, Sarah. I don't think JKR would use the name, "Evans" lightly. And having little Mark eligible for Hogwarts in the next book is a significant point, too.
It's like in soaps, in the UK at least. No two characters have the same Christian name, never mind surname (unless they happen to be members of the same family).
Madame Librarian - Jan 7, 2004 4:29 pm (#10 of 361)
This comment is at risk of topic-drift because it's about Mark Evans and how Dumbledore doesn't seem to be aware of his existence (as Harry's relative if that's what he is).
A good number of us really like the idea of the kid having signifigance in book 6 as he turns 11 and of age for Hogwarts. But we are, at the same time, bothered a lot that this means that Dumbledore either dropped the ball on this one (i.e., being msitaken as to Harry's relations) or is not telling the truth for some reason. The man has done it before--not told the whole story. It's not JKR's style to get out of a bind with something like Dumbledore saying, "Oh, that. Oh, well, I was not quite honest there. I knew all along about Mark blah, blah, blah...."
If we could noodle out that one little wrinkle, I think we'd be thrilled at the appearance of little Markie and what it portends.
We're a bit hazy on the way wizard censuses (censi?) are handled, or if there's ever been a magic quill mistake at Hogwarts, so it may not even be DD's responsibility. What if it's something to do with Petunia keeping silent about her extended family (or possibly Lily, too)?
In the final analysis, count me amongst those that think Mark will be important in book 6 despite the wrinkle. There, I didn't really drift after all.
MTW - Jan 7, 2004 6:41 pm (#11 of 361)
Mark is more than likely to be related to Harry. I noted in the minor character thread the numerous reason why Dumbledore would not leave a one year old with other relatives. Like many I saw family ,at first, meaning individual. It only when I notice Dumbledore didn't say living ( five or six times, and Zelmia putting the quote in a post) that I final figured out Dumbledore could be referring to a group. The Dursleys were only relatives , who were married, that could care for Harry. So Dumbledore was telling the truth. Harry need the family 'Now' not in the three to four years that it took for Mark's father to met someone and start his own family.
To the role Mark will fill in book 6 . That was kind of easy. What Harry saw in the Mirror of Erised besides his parents was the rest of his family. Harry needs family ( unDursley family). Sirius filled that void from end of book three to near the end of five. Now I think Rowlings is giving Harry a reason to continue the fight.
I Am Used Vlad - Jan 7, 2004 6:59 pm (#12 of 361)
I don't see a problem with Harry and Mark Evans being related. I know that Dumbledore said that Petunia was Lily's only remaining relative, but he could have meant that she was the only person who was a close enough relative to Harry that the protection from Lily's sacrifice would be present in her blood.
Hem Hem - Jan 7, 2004 7:35 pm (#13 of 361)
After all, he didn't say that the Dursley's were his only "relatives," he said they were his only "family." There's a difference.
Rich - Jan 7, 2004 7:40 pm (#14 of 361) Reply
Edited by Jan 7, 2004 7:41 pm
Maybe Lily and Petunia's father had a brother and that brother had a son (therefore the son is Lily and Petunia's first cousin) so then if he had a son (that son being Mark Evans) that son (Mark Evans) would be Harry's second cousin...does that make sense?
Mrs. Sirius - Jan 7, 2004 8:52 pm (#15 of 361)
JKR has gone to great lengths to point to little Mark Evans. Just before OoTP was released, she said in an interview that Lilly and Petunia's maiden name was Evans. She wanted us to know when we started reading OoTP, before the pensieve scene, to look for that name. She also pointedly tells us that ME is 10 years old. She has her plan, as with with the thestrals.
However, Dumbledore has led us to believe that Harry had no other family. And during Harry's hearing, someone says that they are not aware of any other wizards living in Harry area. JK is good at navigating tightly woven plot twists, but I really wouldn't want to find that Harry has other "family".
Julia. - Jan 7, 2004 9:48 pm (#16 of 361)
Just a thought, If these "other" Evanses are also Harry's family, would the Lily's blood charm be applied to Harry if he was staying with them, or is it specific to the Dursleys? DD said that Harry would be safe as long as he could call a "place where his mother's blood dwells" home (OoP pg 836 American)and if Lily's blood dwells there, would Harry have the same protection?"
Also, HemHem, when looking for the above quote, I came across this one, which contrasts your above post,
After all, he didn't say that the Dursleys' were his only relatives," he said they were his only "family." There's a difference."
Here it is.
...I put my trust therefore in your mother's blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative. (OoP pg. 836 American) This is a direct quote from DD himself, that Petunia is the Lily's only relative. So, does that make my above question not valid? This is all very frustrating and almost makes me want to cry.
Hem Hem - Jan 7, 2004 9:55 pm (#17 of 361)
Darn. I guess all the discussion about "he has relatives that don't qualify as family" was from the Pre-OotP days...a theory that never came true.
S.E. Jones - Jan 7, 2004 11:48 pm (#18 of 361)
Madam Lib: If we could noodle out that one little wrinkle, I think we'd be thrilled at the appearance of little Markie and what it portends.
Maybe this is the plot point JKR doesn't want us to guess? Hmmm, or maybe not.....
Mrs. Sirius: And during Harry's hearing, someone says that they are not aware of any other wizards living in Harry area.
Wouldn't that only apply if Mark's parents were wizards, though? They wouldn't be registered with the Ministry if they were Muggles and Mark wouldn't be registered til he entered Hogwarts.... The MoM may not know about Mark Evans, or any other Muggle-borns in the area, just as they didn't know about Mrs. Figg being a Squib.
VeronikaG - Jan 8, 2004 2:57 am (#19 of 361)
As I said in the Dudley thread; We know that the Evans family are muggles. Lily was a muggleborn, that's canon. If Mark is her nephew, he'll be muggleborn as well. I think we all agree on that. But does the enchanted quill only register the birth of children born to wizarding families? Doesn't it register the birth of every single child with magical abilities, so the muggleborns also will receive their letter?
I doubt Hogwarts keep this information a secret from the Ministry, in normal cases. The whole point of the Ministry of Magic is to keep the Muggle world unaware of the existence of magic. That way, it would be important for them to know if a wizard or witch is born in a muggle family.
But maybe there is a good reason for Dumbledore to keep Mark's existence hidden. He kept Harry hidden from the wizarding world, even though 99 percent believed that Voldemort was dead and gone. We know from Trelawney's first prophecy that Lily and James defied Voldemort three times before they were killed. We also know from Petunia, in book 1, that the Evans were proud of Lily for being a witch. If her parents were proud of her, that would probably mean that they didn't keep it a secret from their closest relatives. If Lily and Mark's father were cousins, he (Mark's father) would probably know she was a witch. They could have talked inside the family about the trouble she was going through, and that may be the reason even a super-muggle like Petunia knows about things like Azkaban and dementors.
My point being: If the Evans knew about the wizarding world, the wizarding world would probably also have known about them. And if they supported Lily strongly in her fight against Voldemort an the Death Eaters, they would not have been popular with the dark side. Even with Voldemort gone, the DE were dangerous. After all, the Longbottoms were tortured after his defeat. Harry might just not have been as safe there, as he was with the Dursleys, who the Wizarding World probably hardly knew existed. For the same reason, Dumbledore and the Good Guys and Girls would have to keep Mark's existence a secret. Mark could have strong magical powers at a young age, like Harry had, and could prove important when a second Wizarding War is coming up. That would be a good reason to protect him, the way I see it. Am I just rambling, or is this making sense?
Madame Librarian - Jan 8, 2004 4:58 am (#20 of 361)
Veronika, I think I understood you. In a nutshell, DD has had to pull some strings as far as keeping certain Evans family branches below the "radar" of the wizarding world (whoa, awkward sentence there). It's for the protection of all and perhaps part of a promise made to Lily and part of a deal made with Petunia. The more family Harry has, the more vulnerable he is to a DE threat.
(I know it's hard to believe that Petunia would consider far flung relations as part of the deal she made with DD; we don't think of her as being such a goody-goody, but...well...even though it's a stretch, I think something like this may surprise us all in future developments.)
Devika - Jan 8, 2004 5:03 am (#21 of 361)
In OoP, at the hearing, when Mrs. Figg comes to give her testimony, Madam Bones says that "We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter... That situation has always been closely monitored, given... given past events" (Page 131 British edition). That's why Mark Evans cannot be a wizard. He could be related, but I don't think he's a wizard. Why else would JKR put in that little line. I think it was precisely to squash any rumors about any of the Dursleys or a neighbour being a magic person. Though I would have been much happier if that hadn't been said. It sounds such a lovely theory.
MTW - Jan 8, 2004 5:15 am (#22 of 361)
Julia , The OP statement doesn't leave out the possibility that Dumbledore didn't know about Lily and Pet's cousin. It even possible that Lily and Pet didn't even know they had a cousin or uncle .
Mark is only 10 years old. It would later that year that his name would be know to the MoM. His birth would be only list in the book at Hogwarts. I doubt Dumbledore would like for the names of future muggle-born wizards to be know to the Pure Blood crowd, so I doubt the MoM would know who is in the book till they get their Hogwarts letters.
sarah lou - Jan 8, 2004 6:59 am (#23 of 361)
Devika: maybe he doesn't live in Little Whinging, but in a neighbouring village. I know it's a bit of a stretch, but this would mean that he could still be a wizard.
On another point: even if he is related to Harry, and he is a wizard, what do you all think the significance of this is?
mollis - Jan 8, 2004 7:23 am (#24 of 361)
I do think that Mark is distantly related to Harry and is definitely from a muggle family. I think its unlikely that Lily and Petunia had a brother that hasn't been mentioned, so it could be that Mark is the son of a male cousin to Lily and Pet. That would make him related to Harry, but distantly.
As to why Harry wasn't given to Mark's family instead of the Dursleys, it could very well be that Mark's dad, Mr. Evans either wasn't of age or wasn't married at the time. Not many young single men would be willing to take in a child they didn't know and raise it. And, DD is most definitely an optimist. He was probably hoping that Pet, Vernon and Dudley would make Harry a part of the family. If they had loved him, as they should have, Harry would have had a mom, dad, and brother.
I think that the significance of Mark Evans as a character will be, as MTW said, "Harry needs family." Harry was devastated at the loss of Sirius, the only person he truly considered family. Now he's lost his mom, his dad, and his godfather. He not only lost his drive to "be the hero" but momentarily lost his will to live. When Voldemort possessed him he wanted to die so the pain would stop and he'd be with his family again. Harry has a very tough fight ahead of him and any additional people to love/protect that he cares about, even if it is a second-cousin, will help. Perhaps, if Mark is sorted to Gryffindor, Harry will learn that they are related and will be a sort of big-brother to him.
popkin - Jan 8, 2004 8:20 am (#25 of 361) Reply
Edited by Jan 8, 2004 8:33 am
What if..... This is really fun.
What if Lily's cousin is Perseus Evans, also known at school as Snivelus Evans? He is very fond of his cousin Lily, but at odds with the rest of his family. His cousin Petunia refers to him as "that awful boy" rather than say his name, and she won't even acknowledge that she's related to him.
On the worst day in Perseus' memory, after Lily fails to stand up for him in front of the school bully, Perseus allows his anger to get the best of him. He tells Lily that he is no longer related to her, that she means no more to him than a stranger on the street, and he goes so far as to legally disown his entire family (by some wizardly vow, perhaps). After all, Lily was the only one he cared for besides his mother, and she's incapable for some reason to act as a mother to Perseus (as evidenced by his graying underwear), so Perseus has nothing to lose and everything to gain by dumping his family. To show he has completely severed his ties, he changes his name to Severus Snape (an anagram, as most of you know, of Perseus Evans).
As Severus, he joins the Death Eaters, has a change of heart, hones his occlumens abilities to keep his thoughts hidden from the Dark Lord, turns spy for the Order of the Phoenix, and gets hired on at Hogwarts. Unfortunately, he never forgives his family for the years of hardship he's endured, and he retains the name of Severus and the status of having no family.
Some time after the defeat of the Dark Lord, Severus unexpectedly finds himself in love with a muggle woman, and he marries. He fears the return of the Dark Lord would put his new family at risk. So he sets up a secret home in little Whinging, and Dumbledore is his secret keeper. Severus gives his wife his original surname, Evans, hoping that it will increase the chances that she, and any children they might have, will remain undetected by the Dark Lord (or the MOM).
Since Severus has disowned the Evans family, Dumbledore tells the truth when he says Harry has no relatives other than the Dursley's. He also keeps his promise to Severus to keep the existence of his family a secret.
Severus is also able to travel in secret to Little Whinging and keep tabs on his dear cousin Lily's boy. Unfortunately, he can't help but feel that Lily's husband and son are at least partially responsible for Lily's untimely death. But that's another plotline.
Okay. I think that's a reasonable way to make Mark Evans a relative, but not a relative, to Harry. I also think it could account for the MOM's failure to detect another wizard in the Little Whinging area. And it allows Dumbledore to remain an upstanding man, instead of a deceitful liar.
Peregrine - Jan 8, 2004 8:37 am (#26 of 361)
I mentioned this on another thread, but maybe Dumbledore didn’t know about these Evanses. He knew Petunia and her family existed and he needed to get Harry somewhere safe straightaway. Why bother researching Lily and James’s family tree when Petunia was right in front of his face?
I think it’s likely that Mr Evans is a cousin of a cousin or something—more a relative of Harry’s by name than by blood (if that makes sense). And since Petunia’s last name is Dursley now, he may not realize he’s related to her. Conversely, Petunia may assume he’s a relative (or know for a fact seeing as how nosy she is) and just not care to have anything to do with him (or be hiding from him because of Harry).
Edited to add: Or what popkin said...
Madame Librarian - Jan 8, 2004 9:35 am (#27 of 361)
popkin, I like your story. Could work. I envision some twisty, complex explanation like that, dramatized elegantly and cleverly by JKR.
S.E. Jones - Jan 8, 2004 9:53 am (#28 of 361)
VeronikaG: But does the enchanted quill only register the birth of children born to wizarding families? Doesn't it register the birth of every single child with magical abilities, so the muggleborns also will receive their letter? I doubt Hogwarts keep this information a secret from the Ministry, in normal cases.
Devika Bahadur: "We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter... That situation has always been closely monitored, given... given past events" (Page 131 British edition). That's why Mark Evans cannot be a wizard.
As someone else has already pointed out, Mark could be a Muggle-born wizard and not be known to the Ministry as of yet. In OotP, Mrs. Figg answers back, "I'm a Squib, so you wouldn't have me registered, would you?" and JKR has said in the interview (Scholastic 2) about the quill, "The Ministry of Magic doesn't find out which children are magic. In Hogwarts there's a magical quill which detects the birth of a magical child, and writes his or her name down in a large parchment book. Every year Professor McGonagall checks the book, and sends owls to the people who are turning 11." Given all that, I'd say a wizard doesn't become "registered" until they enter Hogwarts, so they wouldn't know about Mark Evans or his family as yet, but will come the beginning of book 6. My but that was long and drawn out, wasn't it?
I don't know that Mark's family knows about magic. Petunia didn't say her parents were proud that Lily got her letter just that they were proud to have her in the family. "I was the only one who saw her for what she was -- a freak! But for my mother and father, oh no, it was Lily this and Lily that, they were proud of having a witch in the family!" (PS, ch4, pg53, US) I think it just means that Petunia was ashamed of her and their parents weren't, not that it points to their relatives necessarily knowing what school Lily went to and the like. Still, I suppose it's possible that her parents told their relations about it. Do you suppose the MoM would allow that? (Hm, perhaps a discussion for another thread?)
Madame Librarian - Jan 8, 2004 9:58 am (#29 of 361)
And--as far as the MoM is concerned, we know that there are certain people who know exactly how to circumvent all the regulations and safeguards (think Umbridge sending dementors to a muggle area) put in place. There could very well have been some fudging (!) of the census records at almost any time since...well, since Voldemort's rise to power.
Little Ginny - Jan 8, 2004 10:57 am (#30 of 361)
I wondered a long time... who could carry Harry's mother's name, but not be a blood relative of her, yet important as a member of Harry's family?
What if Mark's father had been adopted by the Evanses (cousins or whatever of Lily)? That way, he would be a legal relative of Harry still alive, but he would not have the protective blood of Petunia, and that way would not count as surrogate father for Harry.
Now, it would be a coincidence if a non-blood relative of Lily turned out to have the same wizarding genes as she has, but maybe that adopted child was no muggle at all (Which is, I think, what we all are speculating- that Mark is magic). We have already heard that after Harry's parents death, Dumbledore first considered having him raised by a family who were not his relatives but would care for him. That shows that adoptions are not that unusual in the wizarding world. My thought now is that Dumbledore knew Lily's family, whether wizard or not, to be a good family (I have no proof for that, but I imagine them as a kind of Muggle Weasleys, with Petunia as an outsider)who cared for their children.
If now, some years previous to Harry's parents death, Dumbledore had an orphaned child, whose parents have been killed by Voldemort, he would certainly not send it to an orphanage ( he knows what muggle orphanages do to wizards). If this child had no relatives, he would want to find a foster family for it. But perhaps if this child was the son or daughter of a famous witch or wizard who were killed, Dumbledore might want the child to be raised somehow out of the wizarding world, where it would not be that popular, but still with connections to the wizarding world. The Evanses, as a muggle family, but with Lily and James as magic members, might be an ideal place for such a child.
Now, Mark could be the son of the boy or girl adopted by the Evanses.
The only point is that if his parents were magic and living in Little Whinging, they would be known to the ministry, but I have some theories about that:
1. the adopted child was a Squib.
2. Mark has a muggle parent and a magic parent who are divorced, the muggle one living in Little Whinging.
3. Mark does not live in Little Whinging but was visiting some muggle relatives.
VeronikaG - Jan 8, 2004 12:44 pm (#31 of 361)
About the Ministry of Magic: S.E. Jones wondered if they would allow the Evans to talk about Lily to relatives. Could they stop them? I mean, they wouldn't put a memory charm on muggles to make them forget their daughter is a witch, when the muggles soon would discover it again? How practical is that? Do they know what muggles talk about at home at all?
I realize I may have a somewhat mistaken view on the MoM, because I never have considered them to be generally bad. I just thought people like Umbridge were rotten apples found in all governments. And Fudge is just incompetent, like a muggle politician. After all, Arthur Weasley works there, and he's a GOOD guy! There have to be more like him. OK, wrong thread.
Hermionefan(#1) - Jan 8, 2004 1:33 pm (#32 of 361)
I just thought of something... I bet Mark is related to Harry and is magic. The reason why Harry didn't go to stay at the Evans's house is because a) Mark's parents are Muggles and can't learn about Hogwarts until Mark gets the McGonnagal's letter, b) because Petunia would have known that Harry was related to her whereas the Evans's wouldn't know that Harry is a relative if he went to the Dursley's, or c) the Evans's aren't relatives and therefore wouldn't be able to seal that protection" thing on Harry. If Mark isn't a relative, then Dumbledore maybe would have known about Mark but knew they weren't -related. It's like even though Dumbledore said Harry had no more relatives, what about that Aunt Marge? She isrelated to Harry, just not by but marriage. Does anyone know if Lily had a brother or something? Did any of this make sense?
S.E. Jones - Jan 8, 2004 7:34 pm (#33 of 361)
Veronika, I re-asked the question on the Marriages between Muggles and Wizards thread.
Susurro Notities - Jan 8, 2004 7:58 pm (#34 of 361)
popkin although your theory is interesting and I too am fascinated with the Snape - Evans anagram I see a flaw. Certainly Lupin and Black and any number of other WW folks (Dumbledore, Weasleys, Malfoys...) would have been aware of Snape's real name and would have known or guessed at his relationship to Lily. If Snape's name was changed at some point it would have been prior to his Hogwarts days and thus would not be related to his disowning his family.
popkin - Jan 9, 2004 7:48 am (#35 of 361) Reply
Edited by Jan 9, 2004 8:10 am
Susurro, hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... Good point.........
What if...... Perseus Evans father had a rift with the family and disowned them, changing his, his wife's and his son's surnames to Snape. Then when Severus attended Hogwarts he felt an immediate connection to Lily Evans, not knowing that she was related. Then everything else happened just like I postulated, except that Snape chooses Evans as a surname to hide his family because of the connection he felt to Lily....
It doesn't work as well, does it?
Okay, how about this.......
The Marauders, and all the adults connected to Hogwarts at the time are fully aware of Snape's change of name and his connection to Lily, but they have all taken a silent vow never to speak of it because the action of severing ties to your family is magically binding to everyone who knows of it?
It's no better is it?
......Or the action of severing ties to your blood family is so taboo that only the most indecent members of society would speak of it?
Uh-uh. I don't thing that's going to work either. The name Lucius comes to mind....
Susurro, I think you shot a hole in my theory.
Okay, one more try..........
Perseus Evans father disowns his wife and son, and they are forced to change their names (to Severus Snape and mother Snape), and to move away. Severus and his mother are not welcome at any family gatherings following the rift, but Severus favorite cousin Lily manages to maintain a channel of communication with him - perhaps through occlumency and legilimency. Maybe this is why Severus is so skilled in this area. Lily is not aware that she is using magical skills until after she attends Hogwarts. Lily and Severus continue to communicate silently and secretly even while at Hogwarts, and the Marauders, the Staff and even Dumbledore are unaware of their special friendship or of their familial ties.
Everything else continues as postulated.
Hey, I think that could work!
Rich - Jan 9, 2004 8:02 pm (#36 of 361)
If Snape and Lily did have this special relationship, why does Snape call her a filthy mud-blood or whatever after she has a go at James for turning him upside-down? Snape seems pretty sincere when he says it.
Lady Kazuma - Jan 9, 2004 9:25 pm (#37 of 361)
What if Mark only lives with his mother? His father would have to be the Evans, and he could be Lily's brother, Perseus Evans, or whatever you like. That way, Mark would be a blood relative, but the connection would be spreading rather thin. Petunia and Lily both have the same blood, being sisters, but their nephew would have his mother's blood mixed in. Without Mark's father, Harry might not have been as safe there.
As to why Dumbledore wouldn't mention this... I could make up any number of excuses, but I don't think we'll be able to find an answer. Unless, of course, it is Perseus Evans, and then I could see why Dumbledore wouldn't want to mention it.
hopping hessian - Jan 10, 2004 11:40 am (#38 of 361)
The only problem with this theory is that Mark's father would have had to have been alive when the Potters died, since Harry is 4/5 years older than Mark. Dumbledore could not have foreseen that Mark's father would have died.
Edit: The adoption theory seems to make the most sense with what Dumbledore has said. Even if people aren't related by blood, they can still form very strong family bonds, which Harry and Mark might do.
S.E. Jones - Jan 10, 2004 12:10 pm (#39 of 361)
...They're the only family he has left now. (PS, ch1, pg13, US)
...I put my trust therefore in your mother's blood. I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative..... Your mother's sacrifice made the bond of blood the strongest shield I could give you..... He shed her blood, but it lives on in you and her sister. Her blood became your refuge. (OoP ch37, pg836, US)
Okay, it seems to me that Dumbledore's mainly concerned with leaving Harry to Lily's blood relative, since he needed her blood for the spell. Maybe anyone in her immediate family would count but someone who is distantly related, such as a second or third cousin, wouldn't be considered close enough for the spell to work. I noticed that we never hear of the Malfoy's being "relatives" of the Weasleys, just that they are related to them (yes, I realize that this should mean practically the same thing). Could the wizarding world have a different view of what qualifies you as a "relative" versus just being related? Could that explain Mark's presence in the series? Or, could Mark or his father somehow be related by marriage or through some adoption but not be related by blood? Any comments?
As for Mark's role in future books, I see two very interesting possibilities. One, if he were to become close to Harry, we may get to see Harry experience familial love and interaction. Outside of Sirus, whom he thought of as an older brother/father, and the Dursleys, who hate him, Harry doesn't really know much about familial attachment. I think it would be very interesting to see him bond with Mark and perhaps view him as a little brother. Two, if he does become at all close with Mark, and Mark were sorted into a different house (especially Slytherin), it could potentially lead to greater unity among the houses, at least in my mind. Any thoughts?
Leviosa - Jan 10, 2004 12:54 pm (#40 of 361)
I don't think DD knows of Mark's existance because he would have said so in OotP. He would have said the Dursleys are the only relatives close enough for the blood protection to work or something like that. I also think that DD has closely researched Harry's family (he didn't give Harry to the Dursleys lightly!) but hasn't found out about Mark's parents.
Maybe they didn't live in Britain or close to Britain and just moved to Little Whinging a few years ago or after Mark's birth (at that time Harry was already with the Dursleys and DD didn't have any to search for relatives of Harry (distant or not).
Why doesn't Petunia know about her relatives if they live just around the corner? Or does she know and just doesn't tell anyone? But I can only imagine this attitude towards these relatives if they are wizards. But we know that Harry is the only wizard in the area and why would a wizard family live in Little Whinging? This community doesn't seem quite magic welcoming. So I think it's save to rule out that Mark's parents are magical. So why doesn't Petunia tell about her relatives? They could have liked Lily a lot but I think Petunia would at least have mentioned them like "that terrible uncle of mine moved here with his family but if we meet them we don't know them, all right?"
This Perseus Evans theory is really cool, but I have always assumed that Snape is a pureblood because he is in Slytherin (Tom Riddle is an exception because he is the Heir of Slytherin). But Lily is a muggleborn witch and as far as we know all other Evanses were muggle (I don't buy that Petunia=Sqib-theory because it is so often stated that she is muggle). So how can Snape and Lily be related?
I have another crazy theory: Mark Evans is an orphan who knows nothing of his background except that his parents named him Mark Evans. He lived in an orphanage for a few years and was then adopted and lives now with his adoptive family in Little Whinging.
I know this theory is a bit far-fetched but hey, that's what this forum is good for, isn't it?
Lady Kazuma - Jan 10, 2004 1:57 pm (#41 of 361)
Well, okay. If Mark lives with people who aren't Evanses, then Petunia might not know. Dudley and Harry probably wouldn't pay too much attention to her maiden name, and not have realized it. It would only be among the kids that Mark would become well-known, though if Dudley ever brings him up at home, the result might be interesting.
Madame Librarian - Jan 10, 2004 3:46 pm (#42 of 361)
Well, I'm hoping that we learn fairly soon in book 6 some of the story on this kid. After all, Harry now knows his mum's maiden name (though theoretically he already knows it if he's aware of Petunia's maiden name). Maybe it's not something topmost in his consciousness. Now it is more likely to be there, and over the summer there's a confrontation between Mark and Dud, so that Harry has direct contact with the kid.
If (big if) Mark is magical and turns up at Hogwarts, we'd still get to it in a fairly early portion of the book, don't you think?
I guess my only point here is that maybe we won't have to wait too long, aside from waiting for the book itself (sigh).
freshwater - Jan 10, 2004 8:21 pm (#43 of 361)
Popkin, I really like your theories (posts 25 and 35)! I have often read theories posted on the lexicon that seem to go on and on with "and what if...", "and then what if....", "and maybe..." until I end up groaning "puh-leeze!". But your explanations are creative and intriguing...and I can imagine JKR weaving just that kind of plot twist (plot embellishment?) into the series. Nice job!
Madam Pince - Jan 11, 2004 12:01 am (#44 of 361)
I agree, Popkin, excellent work! In fact, great minds think alike -- I had a similar theory that I posted on the Snape #1 thread last fall. Mine came to me as I was musing over Snape's Worst Memory, but then Mark Evans figures into it also. I can't make myself ignore the Severus Snape / Perseus Evans anagram -- it's just too good. So here's my version of the theory (re-posted from Snape #1 post #64):
# **Once upon a time there was a hook-nosed wizard named (for lack of something better right now)Dad Evans. He was an abusive husband and father, and the memory of him yelling at his witch wife while his pureblood young son, Perseus, cowered in a corner has stayed in the son's mind forever. The mother dies while the son is quite young, perhaps even as a result of something Dad did. Dad then farms the son out to an orphanage or something. Young Perseus Evans hates his Dad so much that he changes his name, via anagram, to Severus Snape. He wants nothing to do with the name Evans again. (Sounds a little like the Riddle deal here, but bear with me.) Because he has no mother, there is nobody to make sure his hair isn't greasy and his underpants aren't gray. He is lonely, geeky, and bitter, and his low self-esteem is masked by anger.
In the meantime, Dad Evans meets another lady and re-marries. This lady is a widow (she could be a witch who had been married to a Muggle, or she could be a Muggle) with two daughters from her first marriage, Petunia and Lily (Muggle-borns.) And for some reason, perhaps his love for the second wife, Dad Evans has a major personality change and becomes a good husband and father to his step-daughters, who have taken his name. (Admittedly, abusive types don't usually change personality, but let's just assume he does for whatever reason.) Severus is enraged that his father has abandoned and apparently forgotten him, while he dotes on his new family. A corrosive resentment begins to build up within Severus for his step-sisters, who may or may not know that he even exists. ('Why do THEY deserve MY father's love?!' type of thing.)
So then young Severus meets up with another youth, Sirius Black, who teases and torments him and nicknames him Snivellus. Sirius only knows him as Severus Snape, not Perseus Evans. Then, because both youths are wizards, they both go to Hogwarts, where Sirius expands the teasing by having his pal James and others to join him in making fun of Severus. And of course, the witch step-sister Lily Evans is there also, while Squib (or Muggle) Petunia is not.
Then we have the pensieve memory, where Lily defends Snape, probably just because she has a good heart, but perhaps because she knows he's her step-brother. And Snape rejects her help by the nasty "mudblood" comment because he still resents her. (Low self-esteem frequently lashes out at the very person who tries to help them.) And of course he hates James and Sirius for teasing him. So it's "I'll show THEM!" and he's off to join the DEs. Voldy knows exactly the buttons to push to get him to cross over -- "My dad was mean to my Mum too" and "With power, you can get back at your dad and your tormentors, too." Poor little boy who's always felt helpless, abandoned, and abused has finally found a home.
But then something happens to change his mind. Perhaps it's through his ability as a Legilimens that he sees true evil, or perhaps he blanches at the cruelty he sees Voldy employing. He's not a bad guy; after all, he has the good of his mother in him, and he's more a frustrated and angry outsider than a true evil-doer. So he is assisted by Dumbledore, who sees the good in him and wants to give him a second chance, to make the switchover. He feels a great deal of loyalty to Dumbledore because of getting the second chance. However, he still cannot rid himself completely of the bitterness he feels against Lily and James. And the fact that he owes James his life because of the Shrieking Shack incident makes it even worse. Also, a lifetime lived in a prickly, defensive mode is hard to shake, so he is still not the world's most pleasant person, even if he is no longer a DE.
And now here's Harry, the son of his two least-favorite people, whom he has to watch over on Dumbledore's request. He also has to pretend to have been faithful to Voldy all along and to dutifully file into the Circle at the graveyard, in order to fulfill his duties as spy for the Order. He is able to hide this from Voldy because he is a most highly skilled Occlumens, but grrrr...what a conflict!
And I'm sure 10-year-old Mark Evans fits into this also. Could it be that Snape has a wife and son who are going under his previous name in order to protect them because of his spy duties? He always hurries off from Order meetings, etc. because he has a wife and family to get home to! ***
I now add to this theory your excellent idea, Popkin, that Snape has his wife and son protected with a Fidelius Charm with Dumbledore as his secret-keeper, which explains some of the trust that ties Dumbledore and Snape together.
OK, does that cover all our bases? Mark is "related" to Lily/Harry but not by blood; Mark most likely has magical powers and will be admitted to Hogwarts when he turns 11; Mark is unregistered / unknown to the MoM because of the Fidelius Charm and also because of what someone said earlier about how the MoM doesn't find out about young wizards until they get their Hogwarts letters; Dumbledore hasn't revealed anything about Mark because he's the secret keeper and so that means Dumbledore isn't lying or unaware of something; Hmmmmmm...does that cover it? Plus, Mark may take after his old Pop and be a real geek, which would certainly make him an irresistable target for someone like Dudley and pals to pick on....
I like it! I like it!
VeronikaG - Jan 11, 2004 6:22 am (#45 of 361)
Oh no, I don't want him to be related to Snape! I don't like Snape! You can't trust the guy, JKR said so herself in an interview. We should all keep an eye on old Severus, and not think he's too nice. Besides, on the question of wether he'll ever fall in love, JKR answered that that was a horrible idea. If it's a horrible idea now, it must have been even worse earlier, him being a DE. And if he had a wife, don't you think she'd make him take showers and brush his teeth? Even if he spends the biggest part of his life away from her, his Hair is still greasy and his teeth yellow when he comes home. Or maybe he's in disguise as an ugly man, and is really good looking underneath? Just a joke.
About Mark; Can he be important for Harry, even if he's a pure muggle, if he really is a relative? I guess that after Hogwarts, Harry will still keep in touch with the muggle world. There are many reasons he would. I don't bother to list them here now. If he knew some really cool muggles, that could change his opinion of the world. The Evans could be like a good muggle family for him, if they discovered that they were related to him. That way he would ham somebody to visit every time he was in the muggle world. Just a thought.
Devika - Jan 11, 2004 6:39 am (#46 of 361)
It's amazing how badly we all want little Mark Evans to be a wizard!!!I do too!!But I was thinking... if Mark is indeed a relative then why was Harry not struck by the Evans surname. I mean even Aunt Petunia has the same maiden name and after living with the Dursleys for 11 years that's the least he would know about her. Are we reading too much into it??
Little Ginny - Jan 11, 2004 7:07 am (#47 of 361)
But Aunt Petunia never bothered to tell Harry about her family or anything, so most likely he won't even know her maiden name is Evans. I just can't see her telling Harry about her childhood without having some fits about "that freak of a sister I had".
And I don't remember anyone else telling Harry his mother's maiden name before, so I guess it is important that Harry learns his mother's maiden name was Evans after he heard about Mark Evans, because it was not important for the Pensieve scene at all, James could have called her "Lily" without there being any difference. And we know that JK Rowling never gives people the same name if they don't have anything to do with each other.
So this is my opinion: Mark Evans is important. (And yes, I hope he's a wizard, too!!)
freshwater - Jan 11, 2004 7:28 am (#48 of 361)
Nice elaboration, Madame Pince! Your storyline is complex enough to be real (as in "truth is stranger than fiction") and contains enough plot twists (backed up by hints sprinkled throughout previous text) to be worthy of JKR! It all makes a lot of sense to me, and I'll be surprised if we don't see something along these lines in the next couple of books. Nice job!
mollis - Jan 11, 2004 7:55 am (#49 of 361)
Well done Madame Pince! Incredibly well thought out and makes quite a bit of sense. At least, it is the best explanation of Perseus Evans that I have seen. My only catch is that I just can't see Snape with a wife and son. It just doesn't fit with his character, in my opinion.
Here's what I would suggest as an alternate version: Maybe 'Dad' Evans had 2 sons, Perseus and Dad Jr (again, for lack of a better name). Dad Evans and Wife #1 were wizards and so was Perseus, but Dad Jr. was a squib! If Dad Jr. for some reason (maybe fear of Voldy?), was abandoning the wizarding world and hated all wizardly things, he would leave/kill his wife and abandon his wizard son to the orphanage. Dad JR. may have come of age prior to Dad Evans meeting wife #2 and with Lily and Petunia, therefore, Lily and Petunia would have limited knowledge of their 2 step-brothers, especially if they were young. This allows for the wonderful explanation of the interaction between Snape and Lily. Also, Dad Evans Jr., as a squib can marry a nice muggle and settle in Little Winging to raise their son Mark (whom I am convinced is about to receive a Hogwarts letter!) So, Mark is related to Harry by marriage and not blood!
Anyway, that's my 2 knuts worth. Any takers?
MTW - Jan 11, 2004 9:48 am (#50 of 361)
First the reason Mark Evans is important is Harry knew his name. Harry doesn't even know all the names of students that originally went to Hogwarts with him. I find it hard to believe Harry would know Mark's name a kid who is five years younger than himself. Unless J K Rowlings wanted the name out there before Harry found out his mothers maiden name. I do believe Harry didn't know Lily's maiden name because in PS Harry mentions about importance of not asking questions in the Dursley's house.
Madam Pince- I like your idea of Snape's wife and kid hidden in Harry's neighborhood. It would mean that Snape has been watching over Harry for a long time. But I not ready to throw away the unknown cousin theory.
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S.E. Jones - Jan 11, 2004 12:58 pm (#51 of 361)
I agree that Harry didn't know Petunia and Lily's maiden name prior to the Pensieve scene in OotP. MTW has already pointed out the "Don't ask questions." rule in the Dursley house, but I also get this feeling from this part of the text:
[James] had drawn a Snitch and was now tracing the letters L. E. What did they stand for?
He knew his parents dated while at Hogwarts so, if he had known Lily's last name, could've easily figured out that L. E. stood for Lily Evans.
MTW - Jan 11, 2004 6:02 pm (#52 of 361)
I thought that Harry learn her last name later in the Snape's memory. 'Harry's mother ....
All right Evans said James, ..' p647 OP ( American)
popkin - Jan 11, 2004 9:56 pm (#53 of 361)
Madame Pince and freshwater, thank you for the high praise (posts 43 and 44). The Snape/Evans connection is fun to think about, anyway. Madame Pince, your explanation is just as fun and plausible as mine, and you wrote yours first.
My favorite part came about as a result of Susurro's poking a hole in my original idea. I love the thought of Snape and Lily being completely secret buddies who use legilimency and occlumency to communicate. It has interesting implications about what might have turned Snape away from the Death Eaters and the service of Lord Voldemort.
S.E. Jones - Jan 11, 2004 9:57 pm (#54 of 361)
MTW, yes he did. My point was that Harry didn't know it prior to hearing her called "Evans" by James.
Devika - Jan 12, 2004 1:40 am (#55 of 361)
I still find it unusual that Harry had no clue that his mother's maiden name was Evans. What I was trying to say was that even if questions about Harry's past were forbidden it doesn't mean that Petunia's life was also off-limits. It need not have been Harry who asked her directly what her maiden name was, but is it not hard to imagine that Petunia's - only as Petunia and not Lily's sister - maiden name would not be known in the family... That's why I thought it odd that Harry wasn't struck by the surname which I thik he would have known as his mother's name too.
popkin - Jan 12, 2004 3:45 am (#56 of 361)
Devika, I think that Harry has a tendency to think of Petunia as someone completely unconnected to his mother. Even if he was vaguely aware of Petunia's maiden name, he wouldn't have connected it to Lily.
As much as Harry longs to know a family, he remains unusually ignorant about his parents. Maybe the long years of being forbidden to mention his parents at home, or even to ask questions of any sort, have left Harry unable to go about gathering personal information. (If he were a real person, I think he would need years of psychiatric treatment to repair the damage done to his curiosity and his ability to relate to people on a more personal level - like asking ANYBODY who knew them what his parents were like, where they spent time, or where their bodies are buried.) Aside from believing his parents to be good (up until the pensieve scene in Snape's office), Harry spends very little time thinking about his parents - and none gathering information about their specifics.
Taking Harry's cluelessness into account, it would be more surprising to find out that Harry knows his mother's maiden name at the beginning of OotP than to find out that he doesn't.
S.E. Jones - Jan 12, 2004 4:39 am (#57 of 361)
Devika: What I was trying to say was that even if questions about Harry's past were forbidden it doesn't mean that Petunia's life was also off-limits.
I think the problem is that he wasn't allowed to ask questions of any kind, not just concerning his parents. I have to agree with popkin, it would've been far more surprising to see him knowing such a small, apparently insignificant bit of information.
Madame Librarian - Jan 12, 2004 5:14 am (#58 of 361)
I'm dredging up childhood memories of my own and realized that until I was 12 or 13 I was clueless about my own mother's maiden name because it simply never occurred to me to ask about it. In some families (even normal ones), especially in the 50s and 60s, your mom's maiden name was only openly used if she had a brother or two who carried on that name. Your cousins (assuming you had any) had that last name, and you might notice it then, and make the connection that, hey, your mom had that last name before she was married. Oh, and certain very upper-crust, hoity-toity families might still refer to the mother's maiden name for the social standing it imparted, but for most families this was not an issue.
I became aware of my mother's maiden name when I opened my first savings account at the bank (I mean one that I was involved in opening) and I had to put down my mother's maiden name as a security item. I had to ask her what it was.
Given Harry's family history, and the inclination not to ask too many seemingly pointless questions at the Dursley's, it does not seem odd that Harry would not already know about the Evans name.
Devika - Jan 12, 2004 8:36 am (#59 of 361)
Thanks Madam Librarian... I think I was so confused about this because in my family we think it's quite normal to know your mother's maiden name. I guess it's a bit different in India.
Peregrine - Jan 12, 2004 10:23 am (#60 of 361)
I almost posted the same thing, Barb. I don’t think I would have known my mother’s maiden name if she didn’t have immediate family. For instance, if her parents had died before I came along and she didn’t have a brother (and I didn’t have cousins) I wouldn’t have a clue because she never refers to her maiden name unless she’s talking about them. And like Barb, I never had to think about her maiden name until I needed it for credit card verification.
What if Mark’s grandfather (Lily’s uncle) was for some reason disowned by the family (or left it much in the way Sirius left his)? He would raise his son (Mark’s father) to know nothing about Lily’s side of the family (much like Petunia raised Dudley not to know anything). If Mark’s family got blasted off the family tree somewhere along the line, a la Mrs. Black, they may not be considered relatives. And then Mark’s father wouldn’t even know his nosy, horse-faced neighbor is a cousin.
Assuming Mark is a relative and does go to Hogwarts, how do you suppose Harry would find out? It’s not like Mark would be allowed to parade his acceptance letter around the neighborhood. Do you think we’d have to wait until the train or the sorting ceremony for Harry to look up and realize, “hey, I know that kid”?
Edited to add: Wouldn’t it be great if Mark gets accepted, goes to Diagon Alley, gets his wand and uses it on Dudders before anyone tells him he’s not allowed to? I guess that’s one way Harry could find out about him, if Dudley came home coughing up slugs.
popkin - Jan 12, 2004 11:34 am (#61 of 361) Reply
Edited by Jan 12, 2004 11:37 am
It is truly remarkable that we have had so much to discuss about Mark Evans - a character who is merely mentioned in passing. And I get the feeling that we've just begun.
Peregrine, I agree that it would be great to see Dudders get what's coming to him via little Mark Evans. Harry could witness Mark displaying a bit of emotional magic on the playground. Maybe he'll get so mad at Dudders that he manages to transform him completely into a pig.
I'm not expecting Mark and Harry to hit it off right off the bat, though. Harry has had so little luck in making a family connection. Maybe before the end of the seventh book they'll be fast friends, though.
Maybe, on the advice of Daddy Snape, he'll opt to be sorted into Slytherin. Once there he'll realize what a bunch of creeps they are, and he'll switch to Gryffindore. Or Hufflepuff - the balanced house. Wouldn't that upset the applecart.
mollis - Jan 12, 2004 11:52 am (#62 of 361) Reply
Edited by Jan 12, 2004 11:53 am
No way Popkin, if anybody gets to give "Dudders what's coming to him" it had better be Harry. Granted, it would still be amusing, but I would much rather see Harry give it to him!
And yes, I too love how much we have come up with about this boy. It will be great fun to see how they finally meet and realize they are both wizards. Maybe it will be on one of Harry's solitary rambles at the end of the summer (assuming he's let out of the house at all). He could run into Mark playing with something he got in Diagon Alley.
popkin - Jan 12, 2004 12:45 pm (#63 of 361)
Actually, mollis, I'm hoping Harry grows up enough he doesn't need to get back at his cousin. In fact, I'm hoping Dudley grows up enough that the two of them can become at least amicable, if not friends.
It's fiction. Anything can happen.
S.E. Jones - Jan 12, 2004 4:16 pm (#64 of 361)
Peregrine: What if Mark’s grandfather (Lily’s uncle) was for some reason disowned by the family (or left it much in the way Sirius left his)?.... If Mark’s family got blasted off the family tree somewhere along the line, a la Mrs. Black, they may not be considered relatives. And then Mark’s father wouldn’t even know his nosy, horse-faced neighbor is a cousin.
That's an interesting idea. But, isn't it just as possible that Petunia simply broke off communicating with Mark's family after she married Dursely and Lily died? Maybe, after Lily was gone, there was no one to keep them in contact and they simply lost touch of where each other were..?
Marie E. - Jan 12, 2004 5:12 pm (#65 of 361)
I think that's a big possibility, Sarah. I can see Petunia casting off family members who don't fit into her vision of the perfect family. Sort of like how her house has to be so clean. But, then Marge does fit into that vision? Hmmmm.
Madame Librarian - Jan 12, 2004 5:44 pm (#66 of 361)
Marge is Vernon's sister. Poor Petunia probably would like to forget Marge exists, but...well...um...in-laws are hard to ignore. She's most likely thankful that there is no mother-in-law on the scene. Can you imagine a Dursley mother-in-law?! Yikes, even Voldemort might avoid the place. Hey, what if....? (Joke, I think.)
Fawkes Forever - Jan 13, 2004 6:33 am (#67 of 361)
Hmmm, I find all this very interesting, some excellent theories here. Like most of you, I'd love to see Mark being a wizard.
I also had the thought that Harry would witness some emotional magic from Mark towards Dudley whilst being bullied in the playground.
Then I had another thought. This was suggested on the Hermione thread (or somewhere, sorry don't remember), that when muggle borns receive their Hogwarts letter, a representative or older student from Hogwarts who lives in the surrounding area, would become a sponsor to the kid. That is fill them in on bits of information such as, getting into Diagon Alley, catching the train at platform 9 & 3 quarters & so on! Perhaps Harry will be Marks sponsor?
Or else, 'ol Figgy might hear on the grapevine that Mark has got a letter from Hogwarts, & introduces the two, so Harry can advise Mark on the Wizarding world & going to Hogwarts!
Peregrine - Jan 13, 2004 7:52 am (#68 of 361)
Here’s a theory that makes me think Petunia doesn’t know she and the Evanses are related (assuming they really are): How did Harry find out that Mark got beaten up by anyone? The neighbors are afraid of him so they’re not going to give him any gossip. Dudley didn’t tell him. Dudley’s friends wouldn’t have told him. If Harry had witnessed it himself I’d like to think he’d intervene. So that leaves Petunia being nosy and learning it through neighborhood gossip then telling it to Vernon where Harry would overhear it (and naturally know it was Dudders who did it). If Petunia wanted nothing to do with that family I doubt she would talk about them.
Okay, start poking holes in it!
popkin - Jan 13, 2004 8:30 am (#69 of 361)
You're right Peregrine. There aren't very many ways Harry would hear about Mark Evans being beaten up, unless he might have overheard Petunia talking about it. He isn't in contact with anyone other than the Dursleys in the muggle world over the summer; and, he's outgrown a babysitter, so wouldn't have heard it from Mrs. Figg. A couple other possibilities are that he could have overheard Dudley and his gang taking about it, or he could have overheard Mark and his friends talking about it around the neighborhood.
One thing's certain though. No one told Harry directly about Mark Evans.
Madame Librarian - Jan 13, 2004 8:36 am (#70 of 361)
Well, Peregrine, here's a possible reason she mentioned it in the first place (keep in mind that she might have been speaking to Vernon alone, and was overheard as Harry lay in the bushes or lurked around trying to listen to the news). Something like this--
Oh, Vernon, love, I overheard the at the butcher's about a family with the name Evans. Isn't that odd, sweetie? I mean it's a common name and all, but what if...? Oh, dear, I'm getting all in a sweat over something that's probably not what I think it is.
Vernon responds, "Petunia, my darling, whatever you do, don't brandish it about that your maiden name was Evans! The last thing we need is some idiotic new family in our neighborhood thinking they're our relations because of a common surname. You're a Dursley, and have been for years. Even hearing the name again makes me shudder. If you must satisfy your curiosity, have Dudley check the family out, most likely they have a kid in school."
Choices - Jan 13, 2004 9:00 am (#71 of 361)
I doubt Harry would have heard the Dursley's talking about Mark getting beaten up by Dudley. They are in complete denial about their precious Dudley and think he can do no wrong. After all, they think he is having tea with his buddies and their parents when he is really out smoking and vandalizing the park and bullying the neighborhood kids.
popkin - Jan 13, 2004 9:13 am (#72 of 361)
Choices, in that scenario the Dursley's would be clueless about who did the beating, but Harry would realize instinctively that it was Dudley and his gang.
Choices - Jan 13, 2004 9:17 am (#73 of 361)
You are right Popkin - they could have just been discussing the beating without knowing who did it - but Harry would know. I really tend to think, though, that Harry heard about it on the street in some way - probably by hearing Dudley and his gang bragging about it. Usually the kid that got beat up wouldn't be wanting it known, so would keep quiet about.
Ladybug220 - Jan 13, 2004 9:49 am (#74 of 361)
I assumed that Harry overheard Dudley and his gang talking about it. Dudley would be bragging among his friends (well, the ones that weren't there for he beating) as he walks around the neighborhood.
S.E. Jones - Jan 13, 2004 1:24 pm (#75 of 361)
Couldn't Harry just have overheard some other kids discussing how Mark Evans got jumped by that bully Dudley while on his way home during one of those evenings Harry spent sitting at the playground/park? I mean, the kids are probably afraid of him too, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have overheard them talking. I doubt that Petunia has heard about the Mark/Dudley incident. If Mark is related, she probably doesn't know they've moved into the area. Hm, there's a question: How long has Mark been in Little Whinging? Could he have just moved there that summer? That might explain why Petunia hasn't heard about some distant relative being in the area, it just happened recently. What do you think?
Madame Librarian - Jan 13, 2004 1:49 pm (#76 of 361)
Sarah, that's what I was trying to suggest in my little bit of dialogue a few posts back. I think it's quite possible that these Evans people are newcomers to Little Whinging. There are any number of ways that Harry could have heard about Dud beating up Mark. Harry is an expert at lurking and overhearing things. (Actually, many kids are.)
Madam Pince - Jan 13, 2004 4:22 pm (#77 of 361)
Wow, I'm offline for a day and look how this thread has taken off! Anyway, mollis -- I like your idea about Perseus having a brother. That could work too!
And popkin -- I agree wholeheartedly with what you said "I think that Harry has a tendency to think of Petunia as someone completely unconnected to his mother. Even if he was vaguely aware of Petunia's maiden name, he wouldn't have connected it to Lily. As much as Harry longs to know a family, he remains unusually ignorant about his parents." Wasn't there a line in Oop - maybe when Petunia had her little "slip of the lip" - where it says something like 'Harry looked at Petunia and for the first time realized she was his mother's sister.'? And it has bothered me for ages that he doesn't ask more questions about his parents. I know I certainly would! But I guess that's one way JKR can keep us in the dark a little longer!
And I love the picture of little Mark Evans playing around with some fizzing whizzbees or something, and Harry's eyes getting round as he asks "Where did you get THOSE?" Priceless!
Hem Hem - Jan 13, 2004 5:47 pm (#78 of 361)
The way that Harry knows Mark's age leads me to believe that he had a little bit more first-hand knowledge about the kid, like maybe he witnessed Dudley beating him up. More likely though, is that we'll never find out how Harry came to know about Mark. He was probably just some vague common-knowledge to Harry, and the source of his knowledge is probably insignificant.
I think that Harry will first meet mark at Hogwarts, and I'm inclined to suppose that harry won't recognize the kid at first glance. After all, the vast majority of HP fans will probably never recognize the Mark Evans reference or its implications, and Harry's first interaction with him in book six goes along the lines of "Hey, Mark! You're a wizard, and you have my mom's maiden name!" most of the readers would be totally lost. JKR will probably build Mark up a bit more before bursting his back-story. Harry will probably see him at the sorting (and be completely oblivious), and then notice him in the halls before everything clicks.
VeronikaG - Jan 14, 2004 2:39 am (#79 of 361)
Even if Harry doesn't know Mark very well, he could have known him from seeing him in the neighborhood or the playground before Hogwarts. Before Harry went there, that is. There are lots of kids in my neighborhood that I know by name, and know their age, but who are too young to be my friends. And as many of you already have said, there are many reasons why Harry or the Dursleys wouldn't react to the name.
Peregrine - Jan 14, 2004 8:57 am (#80 of 361)
I’m going to sort-of contradict myself here (again). I want Mark to be related, but in thinking about it, doesn’t it seem that Petunia is the type of person who’d find out every bit of information that she could about a neighbor (either an old one or a new one)? When the moving truck pulled into the Evanses drive, Petunia was probably peeking through her blinds, counting the couch cushions and making sure that her family was better than the new one moving in. It’s not like she has anything better to do all day with Vernon and Dudley both gone (there are only so many times you can vacuum a living room rug).
I guess what I’m getting at is, how nosy do you think Petunia is? Are her fact-gathering skills accomplished enough to learn family history (i.e. that she’s related to the Evanses)? Because if they aren’t, then Harry could have just heard her say, “…he’s an accountant and she works at the library, they have a son too, ten years old…named Mark or Mike or some horrible common name…anyway, he’s a filthy little boy—loads of ugly auburn hair…I caught him riding his bike on our lawn—turned the hose on him…”
But if Petunia is nosy enough to do an thorough background check, she would know they’re related and not mention it at all, leaving these other options for Harry to overhear about Mark.
Hm, maybe this question should be posed on the Petunia thread too.
S.E. Jones - Jan 14, 2004 9:11 am (#81 of 361)
I don't think Mark's a neighbor, exactly. He probably just lives somewhere in Little Whinging, possibly streets away from Petunia and her big nose....
Mad Madame Mim - Jan 14, 2004 8:45 pm (#82 of 361)
I would like Mark and Harry to be related.
But what I would like to see happen is Mark be Snape's child. Don't have Snape marry Mark's mom. Have it be a one time stand kind of thing. They were young and knew it wouldn't work out between them. But Snape does the semi honorable thing and keeps providing for them, but an absentee dad none the less. Maybe for fear he would be like his father. His thinking was no father is better than my father. And she wasn't too happy that he was a wizard either.
Now how the Evans comes to play... I do think the idea that Snape and Lily maybe related, but there's a lot of what ifs. So my suggestion is that Snape had a thing for Lily. She was nice to him until he called her a mudblood. He was proud and embarrassed. I might say some hurtful things if I was humiliated like that in front of the person I liked.
What strikes me odd is that when Lily calls him Snivellus. Its like it was the frist time she had ever called him that.
So Snape was too proud to say he was sorry and pined for Lily until she married Potter.
And when the mother of his child asked for a name, he said Evans.
I'm such a sap!!!!
Rich - Jan 14, 2004 8:55 pm (#83 of 361)
I like the idea of Mark being Snape's son, but I'm not sure how likely it would be. It's a great theory (I'm not doubting that) and would give us an insight into a bit more of Snape's history. But I don't think Snape is so...obsessed, to give his son the surname Evans.
Madame Librarian - Jan 15, 2004 4:59 am (#84 of 361)
As for Mark's mom being an unmarried mother with Snape as the dad, I think we should keep in mind that even though JKR repeatedly says that her books are not children's books, she writes knowing that she has a huge readership among children as young as 6 or 7 (the read-aloud crowd). I know there are delicate ways of dealing with an unwed mother sort of thing, but I get the feeling that given the already complex relationships and plot, JKR will not introduce a problematic situation like that.
Peregrine - Jan 15, 2004 7:28 am (#85 of 361)
Maybe Snape didn’t give the kid the surname of Evans but his middle name instead. Maybe Mark’s (adopted/step?) father is also named Mark so they refer to the kid as Mark Evans (full name Mark Evans Jones or something).
How’s that for reaching?
Madam Pince - Jan 15, 2004 11:56 am (#86 of 361)
Rich, I don't think it would be obsessive of Snape if he was trying to protect his family from the DE's -- that is, if he's trying to hide their identity. I think I'd obsess about it, too, if I were spying on Lord Voldy and wanted to be sure my family couldn't be punished for my job title...
I Am Used Vlad - Jan 15, 2004 1:25 pm (#87 of 361)
I agree with Madame Librarian that Snape fathering Mark out of wedlock is unlikely, but we know little about his past. He could have been married to Mark's mother at the time and used a different last name to, as Madam Pince suggests, protect him from the DE's.
Maybe Mark's mother is named Gina.
virgoddess1313 - Jan 15, 2004 2:02 pm (#88 of 361)
Going back to how Harry could have learned about Mark getting beaten up (sorry to back track, guys!!)... Maybe Mark's parents came round and complained to the Dursley's about Dudley pounding on their kid and Harry overheard the confrontation.
Ok.. back to the subject, just wanted to interject.
S.E. Jones - Jan 15, 2004 7:08 pm (#89 of 361)
I doubt it, virgoddess. The Dursleys are still in the dark about what Dudley really does when he's supposedly at a friend's house, which Harry tells us at the beginning of OotP, but, if the Evans had really complained to the Dursleys, we would've at least heard something about the Dursleys being upset that people were trying to spread lies about their sweet little Duddikins....
virgoddess1313 - Jan 17, 2004 11:59 am (#90 of 361)
They've always found a way to gloss over his bad school reports, so I imagine they would do they same if a parent came directly and complained. But it's just a thought. I would imagine something like that would get around the neighborhood.
Rich - Jan 18, 2004 2:51 am (#91 of 361)
Madam Pince, I agree that any person in their right mind would try to protect their family at all costs even if it meant changing names. The thing I thought obsessive was the fact that Snape would choose the name Evans for his child, which could maybe even (though their is really no possibility) put Lily in jeopardy.
After seeing what Madame Librarian wrote (post #84) I have to agree. The issue is too touchy. JKR won't say that Mark showed up on the door step out of the blue (we haven't seen that before but she won't start somewhat of a scandal when their are only two books to go.
Sinister Kittens - Jan 18, 2004 4:13 pm (#92 of 361)
Okay - I'm way off track, so you can all cart me off later, but when I first read the name I was completely hooked on the fact that his name was Mark! as in MARK Evans (BTW i'm not shouting, i'm just no good at the italics stuff!). Did this mean that we should mark the fact that his surname was Evans or did he have a Mark of some sort?
But I have loved reading this thread so far, all of your ideas seems plausible (Oh, and FF, that was something I had been wondering about ever since the EZ Board days, I know I mentioned it somewhere and it was being discussed by various people but I have no idea where i'm afraid - probably the old auto-mulcher hard at work!)
Madame Librarian - Jan 18, 2004 4:29 pm (#93 of 361)
Wow, SK, my goodness, I can't believe nobody's caught that before. Yikes! It's like she's hitting us over the head there:
Hey, loyal readers, notice this, notice this, notice this. I mean something important here. What, you ask? Aha, just continue your intense analysis and maybe you'll figure it out. If not, c'est la vie, you'll just have to wait for book 6 (or even book 7).
Give yourself 25 points, and have an extra mug of pumpkin juice at supper tonight!
timrew - Jan 18, 2004 5:34 pm (#94 of 361)
Perhaps we should refer to him as 'Dark Mark'.
Susurro Notities - Jan 18, 2004 6:18 pm (#95 of 361)
I have some thoughts about Petunia knowing about Mark Evens and his family. I think that Petunia would have difficulty gathering information about people who are not her neighbors. Petunia strikes me as someone who is not too subtle. I bet everyone she knows is aware of what a busybody she is and therefore people are probably reluctant to chit chat with her. My guess is that Petunia has little knowledge of anything outside her tiny world.
Devika - Jan 19, 2004 6:51 am (#96 of 361)
Sinister Kittens... interesting observation. Could Mark be a verb... Mark Evans... a code... keep an eye on Evans... but who?? Evans is dead! Oho.. again I'm moving in circles!
mollis - Jan 19, 2004 9:41 am (#97 of 361) Reply
Edited by Jan 19, 2004 9:54 am
I think that Mark having a mark () might be a bit much. But it is funny that no one has noticed the significance of "mark" as his first name before. It is like a little flag from JKR, as you said, Madame Librarian. But we caught it without catching the flag! Yea us!!!
And Tim, I really hope he's not a "Dark Mark"!!
EDIT: Going back a bit to the discussion of how Harry learned of Dudley beating up Mark, I have another explanation. On pg. 11 of the Am. ed., as part of Harry's internal monologue, it says "Neighborhood children all around were terrified of him (Dudley) - even more terrified than they were of 'the Potter boy.'" Perhaps during his solitary ramblings, Harry overheard other kids talking about it - "Hey, did you hear that Big D and his gang beat up Mark Evans yesterday?"
S.E. Jones - Jan 19, 2004 12:25 pm (#98 of 361)
My thoughts exactly, mollis! Thanks for that quote.
Sinister Kittens - Jan 19, 2004 4:01 pm (#99 of 361)
That's exactly the same the same as the UK ed. mollis! I just thought of it as a little odd that JKR would choose that particular name, that's all.
tracie1976 - Jan 20, 2004 6:35 pm (#100 of 361) Reply
Edited by S.E. Jones Jan 20, 2004 7:18 pm
Wow what a great thread but here's my 2 cents. As for Harry knowing about Mark Evans....doesn't Harry roam the neighborhood cause he'd rather be away from the Dursley's especially after seeing Voldie return and Cedric dying? It seemed to me that he was only home to listen for the "odd" happenings on the Muggle news and right after Dudley gets home in the evening so he won't get into trouble cause Dudley "sets his own curfew" (whenever Dudley gets home). Anyways while Harry is roaming the streets he could have possibly saw the beating while it happened or heard other kids talking about it. And as for Mark being related to Harry, I don't really think it's too possible cause I think Lily and Pet didn't have any other siblings....as Pet mentioned "my mother and father were so proud to have a witch in the family". Don't you think she would have said something about the brothers and/or sisters' feelings too, ie: "my brother and sister were happy for Lily too" or something like that? Cause Pet also says that "I was the only one who saw her for what she was ... a freak". Plus there has only been mentioned that only aunt Marge comes and visits, no one else (unless its not that important). Ok I'm done rambling. lol
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LilyP - Jan 20, 2004 10:18 pm (#101 of 361)
Tracie, Mark could be the son of Lily's cousin on the Evans' side. He doesn't need to be a first cousin to be considered family. There is no evidence that the Evans' aren't a wizarding line. Only that Lily's parents were not wizards - leaves open the possibility for squibs. Therefore, the rest of Petunia's extended family could be part of the wizarding world, which she shuns and therefore disowns her extended family. We saw in the Mirror of Erised a large group of people. We don't know if these people are living or dead. We only know that Petunia doesn't keep in contact with anyone in her family, therefore Harry hasn't learned about them and doesn't realize they exist.
tracie1976 - Jan 21, 2004 6:03 am (#102 of 361)
Actually I'm not even sure if there are any relatives alive, besides Petunia, Harry never gets any mail from anyone...I think if he had any other relatives, they would at least send him a letter, birthday card or something like that,(even I send Christmas cards to relatives that I dont talk to during the year) especially knowing that his mother and father got killed in a "car accident". Plus wouldn't Harry have some sort of memory of other relatives coming over besides Aunt Marge and that dog of hers. Plus with Dudley being as spoiled as he his, Petunia never mentioned him getting gifts for his birthday from anyone else besides Aunt Marge and of course from his parents. I think if any other relative sent Dudley a present, Petunia would rub into Harry's face like "Dudley Aunt so-and-so sent you a present but of course she won't send Harry anything." or something like that. Plus, even if Petunia didn't get along with other relatives, don't you think that on the day they went to the zoo she would have called one of them to watch Harry instead of taking him with them especially seeing how much they didn't want to spoil "Dudley's special day". Plus I think they would drive quite out of the way not to take Harry with them to the zoo. *sigh* I'm rambling again lol.
Little Ginny - Jan 21, 2004 8:30 am (#103 of 361)
But if those relatives we don't know about (Pet's siblings or cousins) were magic or had connections to the magical world or just wouldn't share the Dudley's opinion on magic, I bet Pet and even more Vernon would make sure they couldn't infect their little Duddykins with any magic. Imagine them sending a biting teacup for birthday! Also, we know that Uncle Vernon is quite capable of intercepting mail, so any tries to get contact with Harry via mail might have stopped in his early childhood because he never answered their letters (which he didn't get in the first place). And I don't think the Dursleys would send Harry to any of them to have him out of the way. After all, they swore to get the magic out of him, and a visit at Uncle Wizard's might encourage his (at that time still hidden) abilities to get out and make 'funny stuff'. Even worse, they might tell him about his mother's real identity. It's surely better to take him to the zoo for some hours then.
Of course, it might also be that the unknown relatives stopped the contact, because they didn't want their children infected with any Dursleyness, or get punched up by Dudley, or they simply didn't want to be seen with the Dursleys in public. (Well, who would?)
Madame Librarian - Jan 21, 2004 3:22 pm (#104 of 361)
Petunia, never one who was close to her extended family, develops this jealous and intolerant attitude towards Lily when the letter from Hogwarts comes. That's maybe step one in turning Pet away from her family.
Later, if the senior are Evanses murdered in VWI, there is even more reason Pet may not want any family ties. She may view it as Lily's fault. She may be terrified that she'll be another victim. Even if this is not what happened to the parents, could the fact that Lily is at this point deeply involved in battling Voldie cause her (Lily) to break ties with Petunia to protect her? Or, because Lily is completely absorbed in the fight--no time, it's risky, she's undercover, whatever. Step two.
Vernon, upon marrying Pet and learning that Lily was a witch (bad enough in his eyes), and then a few years later (give or take) finds that she's been murdered along with her husband, insists that all contact with Pet's family, magic or not, must stop. They will simply take no risk whatsoever that their nice, quiet life in Little Whinging will be disturbed. Step three.
When their adopted nephew starts showing some decidedly weird behavior, they probably are continuously reminded how crucial it is that nobody ever know the truth about Pet and her family. So, the safest story is that Harry's parents died in a car crash and there are no other family members. Step four.
Q. Trimble - Jan 23, 2004 1:00 pm (#105 of 361)
I find this whole matter intensely frustrating. JKR certainly did not drop the name of Mark Evans into the opening chapter of the very book in which she finally reveals Lily's maiden name by accident but I just can't think of a plausible explanation. I think the Severus Snape anagram is quite likely as well but two people get in the way of all my theories: Petunia and Dumbledore. Why don't they know about it? Or if they do know, why don't they tell Harry?
I think that to shed some light on this we need to follow the Evans bloodline specifically. Lily is believed to be a muggle-born witch, this may prove to be incorrect but so far we have been continually assured of it, so I'll try not to contradict it for now. Therefore we must assume that Lily's parents were not magical. If the name of Severus Snape is really an anagram of Perseus Evans, then it is definitely the male-line we need to examine. ie. Lily's father.
Because if there is any truth in the anagram then his brother is likely to be Snape's father and for some reason Petunia (his cousin) is either not aware of him or has tried very hard to forget him. Maybe he was another muggle-born wizard (thus Petunia would try to forget him) and Snape, as his son was a half-blood at best and probably quite resentful of this given the House he was in and the people he associated with. Enough to change his name anyhow. When Snape eventually got over his prejudice and learned to like himself (something Voldemort still has trouble with) he had a child (Mark) and they gave him the name of Evans, either because this is no longer a name that Snape feels ashamed of or simply to keep him safe. And Dumbledore respected Snape's privacy. JKR did say, in an inteview (no idea which one, sorry) that spouses of Hogwart's staff would become an issue.
But then again, what would be the point of all this? Well it means that Snape and Lily are cousins for one and that Snape may just be a close enough relation to Harry that he is protected when they are together, it may even save Harry's life in a future story line. Perhaps this is why Mark lives so close to Harry, so Snape can be nearby during the summer.
S.E. Jones - Jan 23, 2004 1:43 pm (#106 of 361)
About spouses of teachers:
ComicRelief Interview March 12, 2001
Q: Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses? A: Good question - yes, a few of them but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why.
Also, about whether Lily is muggle born (look for the underlined portion):
CBBC Newround, October 23, 2003
Q: Book four explores a lot of themes, some we've seen before in Chambers of Secrets, about prejudice. Is that something you've been wanting to explore?
A: From the beginning of the Philosopher's Stone prejudice is a very strong theme [excluded]... And it's a shock to him like to everyone else and he finds out that he's a half person within the confines of the world. To a wizard like Lucius Malfoy, Harry will never be a true wizard because his mother was of muggle parentage.
VeronikaG - Feb 2, 2004 5:17 am (#107 of 361)
OK, but Snape's not married. JKR said so.
popkin - Feb 2, 2004 7:28 am (#108 of 361)
Did she? I thought she just said something like, "Who would want Snape to be in love with them?" (very paraphrased)
Tomoé - Feb 4, 2004 12:11 pm (#109 of 361)
Almost popkin !
The Connection, 12 October 1999 : "One of our internet correspondents wondered if Snape is going to fall in love.
(JKR laughs) Who on earth would want Snape in love with them? That’s a very horrible idea."
Other interesting quotes :
Comic relief, online chat, March 2001 : "Sheila McCleary - Have any of the Hogwarts professors had spouses?
Good question - yes, a few of them but that information is sort of restricted - you'll find out why."
VeronikaG - Feb 5, 2004 2:18 am (#110 of 361)
So if no one would want Snape in love with them, he's probably not married. For the same reason I think we can rule him out as Mark's dad.
Peregrine - Feb 5, 2004 11:08 am (#111 of 361)
Well, JKR never said he wasn't married, she very skillfully avoided giving a definite answer...
popkin - Feb 5, 2004 11:51 am (#112 of 361) Reply
Edited by Feb 5, 2004 11:52 am
As she does with every Snape related question (in the books and otherwise). The one thing that we can garner from her answer is that if Snape is married, it was a horrible idea.
Q. Trimble - Feb 6, 2004 12:08 pm (#113 of 361)
I think JKR treats interviews alot like her books - she deliberately misleads us so as not to give plots away. I can't think of a good example at the moment but she has in the past even dropped red herrings. But there is no evidence behind any aspect of my theory, I agree, it was merely the most logical explanation I could think of. Of course there is no reason the solution has to logical, in fact it would be less entertaining if it was.
hopping hessian - Feb 9, 2004 10:44 am (#114 of 361)
We saw in the Mirror of Erised a large group of people. Lily P #101
But Dumdbledore said that the Mirror did not offer wisdom or truth. It showed Harry what he wanted to see, not what nessisarily existed. Harry had never known a loving family and had always daydreamed of an unknown relative taking him away from the Dursleys. I find it hard to believe, as famous as he is, that Harry has much extended family in the WW. Someone surely would have come forward by now.
Phoenix - Feb 12, 2004 11:42 am (#115 of 361)
Snape just doesn't strike me as the type of person to have a "loving" relationship, especially a son. Can you imagine having Snape as your Dad? I think his alter ego Perseus Evans is a great theory but he's more likely to be Mark's uncle or something i.e the brother of Lily and Petunia's uncle. Does that make sense?
I think it would be great for Harry if Mark does turn out to be a wizard and a relation.
S.E. Jones - Feb 12, 2004 8:00 pm (#116 of 361)
Okay, here's a question, inspired by Nicola, what effect would Mark have on Harry, should he turn out to be a wizard and relation? Any ideas?
popkin - Feb 13, 2004 7:13 am (#117 of 361) Reply
Edited by Feb 13, 2004 7:16 am
It depends on what kind of kid Mark turns out to be. He's not from the Wizarding World, and would therefore not be overly awed by Harry. He's been beaten up by Dudley and his gang, so I think maybe he smarted off to Dudley. If he shares a lot of characteristics with Harry (cheekiness, looks, desire to win, etc.) they could either find themselves instant friends or instant ememies. Sometimes we see in others those qualities we most hate in ourselves, and it can make for a big clash.
How would Harry feel if Mark turns out to be better than he on the quidditch field? What if he looks/acts a lot like Dudley, only thinner? What if he looks a lot like Harry's mother?
Harry could be thrilled to find a new family member, or he could rue the day he ever wished he had more family. I just hope he's not neutral on the subject of Mark Evans.
Q. Trimble - Feb 13, 2004 11:58 am (#118 of 361)
It depends as well on what secrets the arrival of Mark will reveal because I'm certain JKR included his name as a clue to something and we know there are big revelations coming up about Lily. If they're just cousins, he'd probably think, 'Well so what?' But it's clearly the tip of an iceburg intended to forbode something much more important. Perhaps the character himself won't be important at all, except as a plot device that makes us realise that Petunia isn't the only member of her family still alive.
Devika - Feb 14, 2004 12:02 am (#119 of 361)
I somehow can't imagine Mark as a slightly improved version of Colin and Dennis Creevey. He sounds more of a weaker Harry type, the kind of person Harry was before he discovered his latent mental and physical strength.
Madame Librarian - Feb 14, 2004 6:13 am (#120 of 361)
I think it is so amazing that we've started speculating on the personality of this character with the merest wisp of a mention to base our ideas on. That is the fun of the Forum--it's OK to do things like that. However, IMO, all I'm willing to say on Mark is that he is younger and smaller than Harry at this point. As to Dudley's confrontation with Mark Evans, remember, it was Dudley who says "he cheeked me," which may or may not mean that he did in reality--but, if he did, then I'll allow that Mark is younger, smaller, and at least a bit spunky.
We'll have to wait till we actually meet the kid, that is, if we do (I'd be very disappointed if he never shows up at all--yikes! perish the thought).
Bash - Feb 14, 2004 6:29 am (#121 of 361)
Yes, remember Dudley was able to get away with beating up Harry before Harry learned of his latent magical gift. I was gratified to read in Dudley Demented that Harry was not remotely afraid of him any more. I hope the same will apply to Mark.
Chemyst - Feb 14, 2004 7:08 am (#122 of 361)
I've only recently joined this forum, but back around the posts in the #50's where people were wondering as to how/if Harry would not have known his mother's maiden name-- Consider that Petunia may also actively tried to keep it a secret for Dudley's sake, (and has probably distracted him with food when he started to become curious.) It doesn't always have to be all about Harry. It is just as likely that Petunia prefers to hide that part of her life from Dudley, and therefore she couldn't risk having Harry know it either.
In PA, chapter 1, page two of the Scholastic paperback, it reads: Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia, and their son, Dudley, were Harry's only living relatives. I don't see how it could be much plainer than that. I suppose one could try to say the verb were, being past tense and Mark's not having been born until Harry was about five could be argued, but unless we are willing to go with frozen embryo theories... I just haven't been convinced they are related yet.
Marie E. - Feb 14, 2004 10:04 am (#123 of 361)
I had a sudden, horrible thought. What if JKR does a "Sirius" to us? Remember how Sirius was mentioned very briefly in PS/SS but then not again until two books later? Suppose we have this little one sentence hint and then nothing until book 7?
Chemyst, it's that 'only living relatives' line that drives me crazy. We have taken for granted for four books that somehow there are no more Evanes and Potters, at all, for Harry to live with. I just can't see her (JKR) using the name Evans for no reason. I don't have a plausible theory as to how in the world Mark Evans could be a relative of Petunia and Lily, just a gut feeling.
Phoenix - Feb 14, 2004 11:07 am (#124 of 361)
JKR isn't the type to throw words around willy nilly. There is no doubt in my mind that she intended us to find out Mark's name before we find out Lily's maided name. I get the feeling Mark may play an important part, maybe not in book 6 but in book 7 when we supposedly get the final showdown. If Mark is a relation of Harry's, does Voldemort know about him?
Maybe if they are related, once Mark discovers that Harry was once targeted by Dudley, as Mark seems to have become, they may bond and look out for each other.
VeronikaG - Feb 14, 2004 1:38 pm (#125 of 361)
If Mark is the scared little kid we're speculating about, and meets Harry at Hogwarts, maybe Harry will start remembering more clearly how life as a little, bullied, supposed Muggle kid was. I don't think he has forgotten how awful the Dursleys were, but with all he's been trough the last five years, he's probably not been thinking much about his years in Muggle school and playgrounds. Seeing a new little boy coming from the same place could remind him of the kid he used to be, before he knew he was special, and had any faith in himself.
Remember, though Harry thinks he's the center of the world right now, he used to not like himself very much. It says in chapter 2 of PS (translated, this is not an exact quote) that the only thing Harry liked about himself was a thin scar on the forehead. He was small and skinny with big knees, broken glasses, and baggy clothes which he was bullied for at school. At home he was bothered about his quickly growing hair.
Going from being criticized for everything, to being a hero, can go to everyones head. But Harry needs to keep his cold, because the future is depending on him. I can completely see JKR bringing Mark in to make Harry remeber, and come around.
timrew - Feb 14, 2004 3:19 pm (#126 of 361)
Barb said, "We'll have to wait till we actually meet the kid, that is, if we do (I'd be very disappointed if he never shows up at all--yikes! perish the thought)."
What if JKR is a regular visitor to the Forum, and likes reading all our crazy (and not so crazy) theories?
What if, when writing OOP she thought, "I'll put the cat among the pigeons by mentioning this Evans kid that Dudley beats up - and then I'll never mention him again! Let's see what they all make of that! Where are my paper napkins and my pencil? Mwahahahaaaa!!!"
......or something like that.....
sarah lou - Feb 16, 2004 4:58 am (#127 of 361)
Going back to the 'only living relatives' problem - remember that the books are written from Harry's point of view, and as far as he knows, the Dursleys ARE his only living relatives. I don't have the books to hand, but I'm pretty sure that those words were in the narrative (ie, what Harry thought) rather than from the mouth of someone like Dumbledore. So it wouldn't exactly be wrong if he turned out to have more relatives.... hope I'm not just clutching at straws here!
hopping hessian - Feb 16, 2004 6:35 am (#128 of 361)
That's an interesting theory, but Dumbledore says that the Dursley's are the only family Harry has left. I don't know how Harry's viewpoint could be used for that.
Devika - Feb 16, 2004 7:20 am (#129 of 361)
Sarah Lou, you are right that the books are from Harry's point of view. But it must be noted that the only exception to this pattern was Chapter 1 Book 1, and that's where this statement is made if I'm not mistaken.
The only other possibility I can think of to find Mr. Mark Evans related to Harry is that he was born after that was mentioned. Of course that wouldn't explain his parentage and he wasn't born out of thin air. So... there goes my idea!!
Loopy Lupin - Feb 19, 2004 12:18 pm (#130 of 361)
I think that Mark Evans is just bound to turn up later as some type of relative. Although she is good at Red Herrings, JKR doesn't throw names usually. Look at Ms. Figg. She was around, peripherally, since SS/PS and turned out to me much more important than anyone might have thought. Still, it would seem odd that if Mark Evans was a close cousin (first, second, or whatever)that Harry wouldn't know him as such.
prof sprout - Feb 19, 2004 1:29 pm (#131 of 361)
I assumed because Petunia was a close relative (immediate family) that is why she would work for the blood bond, Petunia and Lily share the same exact blood from both parents (I know the whole DNA differences). A cousin or an Aunt of Lily's would not be the same. If there were any other Potters left I don't think the blood connection would work to keep Harry safe, because it was Lily that died trying to protect Harry. So even if Mark and his family were distant or not so distant, they wouldn't be able to offer the same level of protection Petunia's blood can. I have to imagine it to be somewhat distant relatives though because of Dudders picking on him, though Dudders has no problem picking on his cousin.
With all of James' family being pureblood, wouldn't you think that there would be some relatives out there, since "All pure blooded wizards are related somehow" Look at Sirius' family tree, Weasley's (both Molly and Arthur pre marriage), Malfoy (through Narcissa), and Tonks. We would know about more connections if it wasn't for that Darn Mrs. Black.
Does this make sense?
I've always noticed Sirius because my last name is Black. Hey don't worry Phineus, I'm still here, the last Black isn't gone Sorry I had to add it)
Loopy Lupin - Feb 19, 2004 2:15 pm (#132 of 361)
Where does it say that Potters are "pure blood." I'm not doubting you at all, in fact I'm sure you are right. I just can't remember which book says so explicitly. In any event, your comment raises a very interesting point I've never thought of before. Unless James was the last in a line of Wizards that kept their blood "very" pure (eww), then Harry has to be connected (even if only distantly) with all kinds of other Wizards. Heck, he and Ron and Neville are probably related somehow.
prof sprout - Feb 19, 2004 2:37 pm (#133 of 361) Reply
Edited by Feb 19, 2004 2:38 pm
I'm not sure, Now that you mention it, I don't know if it is cannon. I thought it was mentioned somewhere before. According to the Lexicon he is from a Two wizard family, and that he probably inherited the invisibility cloak from his fathers side. But that doesn't mean him mom couldn't have been muggle born. Maybe other members of the forum could help out.
Oh yeah welcome to the forum.
Loopy Lupin - Feb 19, 2004 2:41 pm (#134 of 361)
Thanks for the welcome. Sure beats working!
prof sprout - Feb 19, 2004 2:58 pm (#135 of 361) Reply
Edited by Feb 19, 2004 3:11 pm
Yeah same here, I'm at work also I thought it was on an old thread that has been long deleted, the thread was something along the lines of "Harry full-blood or half-blood"? I thought it was mentioned there that he was pure blooded.
Sorry to get off topic.
Luanee - Feb 20, 2004 12:10 am (#136 of 361)
Just a thought, maybe Mark Evans is an adopted child? Hence the name but no 'blood' relation with Harry?
VeronikaG - Feb 20, 2004 1:08 am (#137 of 361)
This doesn't belong here, but since the question came up here so... Harry is half blood by wizard standards. His mother was Muggle born, and a Muggle born and a pure blood are slightly different. Full blood wizards are not human, in the ordinary way. Wizards are a specie.
Phoenix - Feb 20, 2004 6:49 am (#138 of 361)
Even if Mark is adopted, there has to be a relation of Lily and Petunia's to give him the name Evans. But mark could also be the birth son of that relation. So either way there is a relation that we havn't been told about yet.
S.E. Jones - Feb 20, 2004 7:36 pm (#139 of 361)
Devika: Sarah Lou, you are right that the books are from Harry's point of view. But it must be noted that the only exception to this pattern was Chapter 1 Book 1, and that's where this statement is made if I'm not mistaken.
Actually the quote in the first book is only "family", not "relatives" ("They're the only family he has left now." PS, ch1, pg13, US). It is then later stated in OotP that Petunia and the Dudley are Lily's only relatives, specifically relating to a blood relation (Dumbledore is talking about the blood pact here). This has led me to believe that there could indeed be more relatives out there because, to me, the word "family" implies more than just blood connection, it implies a home, security, etc (remember that the charm that Dumbledore placed on Harry was dependant on Petunia taking Harry into her home to be sealed). Now, the only problem I've run into with this is the line in the narration in PoA also stating that the Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives, and this is why I think Sarah Lou's observation about the books (including the narration for the most part) being written from Harry's point of view is so terribly important. We aren't hearing this from a character "in the know," as it were, but from the narration which is tainted by Harry's (and our) experiences to a point. We aren't told things Harry isn't told, so if JKR had intended some line to be a red herring, I think it is the one from PoA and that Mark is, indeed, related to Lily, most likely through adoption or some other form of distant relationship.
Hogs Head - Mar 13, 2004 11:58 am (#140 of 361)
I'm ready to accept the theory that young Mark Evans shows up at Hogwarts as a first year student at the beginning of Book 6 and even that he is a cousin of sorts to Harry. I think this will pose an interesting and potentially maturing plot development for Harry -- i.e., although losing a protector in Sirius, he must set that aside to become a protector of the weak himself.
However, I thought someone earlier suggested that the Mark Evans theory couldn't be so because that would mean that Dumbledore was ignorant of Mark Evans or that he deceived Harry in prior books (about no relatives).
How so? (Or, simply put, I disagree.) Just because Dumbledore never acknowledges to Harry the existence of a wizard-in-the-making cousin, Mark Evans -- does that equate to ignorance? Or if Dumbledore never mentioned him, does that hint at deceit on Dumbledore's part? I think not. (I also agree with the essential conclusion reached in the immediately prior post, #139, re: the context of the "no family" statements in the prior books.)
The old wizard Dumbledore keeps many things up his sleeve until the time is right, and I suspect that time for Mark Evans will be the beginning of Book 6. His name will be called out in the sorting and Harry will do a startled double-take. Young Mark then will likely be sorted into Grif. (but how interesting if he is instead sorted into Slytherin!).
And, I suspect the story of why Harry was placed with the Dursleys instead of Mark's parents will be intriguing. First, there's the whole protective blood-relation charm from the Lily/Petunia connection to consider -- it makes 4 Privet a preferred location even if the Dursleys were not the preferred parental surogates.
And if Mark is 5 years younger (I'm poor at counting years backward) than Harry, perhaps Mark's parents were simply too young to accept a young child when James & Lily were killed.
hopping hessian - Mar 13, 2004 12:13 pm (#141 of 361)
Or, his parents might not have been together at all.
Phoenix - Mar 13, 2004 12:23 pm (#142 of 361)
I don't think Dumbledore is arrogant (or intends to be arrogant), he just does and says things as he sees fit.
Hogs Head: I think that Harry was placed with Aunt Petunia because she was as good a blood relation as you can get, given that their parents are dead. Maybe Mark's parents weren't married at the time or hadn't even met and so wouldn't count as a family.
S.E. Jones - Mar 13, 2004 1:29 pm (#143 of 361)
I agree that Mark's father may not have counted as "family" in PS because he was unmarried, but my brother has recently offered a slightly different interpretation. He suggested that maybe "family" included parents and a child and thus Mark's parents wouldn't have fit the definition needed for the protection spell while the Dursleys would have (oftly convenient that Dudley just happens to be a few months older than Harry, huh?). However, unless Mark is a distant relative or a legal relative (such as via adoption), he still had some problems with Dumbledore's line "I delivered you to her sister, her only remaining relative." (OotP, pg836, US). I still can't figure, though, if he is referring to Petunia who is now her only remaining blood relative or who was then her only remaining blood relative. Dumbledore, while often keeping things secret, has never outright lied to Harry, at least not willingly or to his knowledge. It may be possible that Mark's dad died before he was born and so Dumbledore didn't pay any more attention to his mum since she was not a blood relative and thus didn't notice Mark's birth. Or, he is deliberately lying for the first time for some reason....
Choices - Mar 14, 2004 9:26 am (#144 of 361)
Are we forgetting (or maybe I am) that the MOM stated at Harry's hearing that no other wizards lived in the area of Privet Drive - this was about the time Dumbledore called Mrs. Figg in to testify about the dementors. The MOM keeps records of all wizards and I think they would know if Mark lived near Harry and were on the list. They would have said, "No other wizards live in that area, except the Evans boy up the street."
Madam Pince - Mar 14, 2004 9:51 am (#145 of 361)
I think we went around this issue before, and never really reached a satisfactory conclusion except that perhaps "the neighborhood" that is roamed by Dudley and his pals is further-reaching than the MOM considers to be in the immediate area of Privet Drive. Maybe Mark lives close enough to be tormented by Dudders, but far enough away that the MOM doesn't consider it to be close.
mischa fan - Mar 14, 2004 12:02 pm (#146 of 361)
Mark could be a muggle born wizard. I know that Hogwarts keeps a record of every born wizard, muggle born and wizard born, but JKR never said anything about the MOM keeping such a record. So maybe the MOM doesn't find out of muggle borns until after they enter Hogwarts. So Mark could be a muggle born wizard, but the MOM doesn't know about him yet.
VeronikaG - Mar 14, 2004 12:13 pm (#147 of 361)
I think the MoM has a pretty exact mapping of where wizards live. It doesn't take Harry long to get the owl when Dobby blows up the pudding. The MoM probably knows exactly where magic is being preformed, sort of the same way you can find out in what location a SMS has been sent from.
It's also unlikely that they bother to map out all Muggle households, as that's too many to keep track of, and that they only keep an eye on houses where wizards live. If the Evans live ten streets away, that would probably not be seen as the closest area around the Dursleys' house, but as separated from it by an unmapped mass of unknown Muggles.
Hogs Head - Mar 14, 2004 12:19 pm (#148 of 361)
Another question could be "When does one become a wizard in MoM parlance?" Hagrid called HP a Wizard at the Shack on the Rock (or whatever it was called), but would that be "officially" true the summer before someone received an invitation to Hogwarts?
S.E. Jones - Mar 14, 2004 3:25 pm (#149 of 361)
Choices: Are we forgetting (or maybe I am) that the MOM stated at Harry's hearing that no other wizards lived in the area of Privet Drive...
Hogs Head: When does one become a wizard in MoM parlance?....would that be "officially" true the summer before someone received an invitation to Hogwarts?
I think Hogs Head has the right idea here. Bones said, "We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter. That situation has always been closely monitored, given...given past events." (OotP, pg143, US). I think the key words here are "record" as in "someone made a record of" (i.e. they had a reason to take note of the person) and "past events" as in "since the downfall of the Dark Lord" or "since Harry entered Hogwarts" (i.e. they had a specific reason to be watching Harry so closely). We know from JKR (Scholastic Interview #1, Feb. 3, 2000), "The Ministry of Magic doesn't find out which children are magic. In Hogwarts there's a magical quill which detects the birth of a magical child, and writes his or her name down in a large parchment book. Every year Professor McGonagall checks the book, and sends owls to the people who are turning 11," so we know that the MoM doesn't know which children will exhibit magical abilities until they are accepted into Hogwarts and thus can't have a record of them before this. Therefore, since Mark is only 10 in OotP and wouldn't be recieving a Hogwarts letter until the next summer, the MoM wouldn't know anything of his presence until then at which time they would make a record of him and keep tabs on him to make sure he wasn't doing magic outside of school.
Madam Pince - Mar 14, 2004 7:49 pm (#150 of 361)
Bravo, Sarah! You hit it, I think. I had forgotten about that, but yes, I think that was the consensus before. Excellent summation!
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Madame Librarian - Mar 14, 2004 8:21 pm (#151 of 361)
Sarah, as usual, well-thought out. There is no doubt that JKR uses very carefully constructed sentences and phrases to ease over tricky areas. This is sure one of them I think. Hey, given the way the quill works at Hogwarts, Prof. McG probably doesn't even peruse the list of new wizards until the day the letters have to go out. So Mark, who's just 10 when he's first mentioned, isn't even on Minerva's radar yet.
Chemyst - Mar 15, 2004 5:20 pm (#152 of 361)
We have no record of any witch or wizard living in Little Whinging other than Harry Potter. That situation has always been closely monitored, given...given past events.
Even without guessing the attributes of quills or conjecture over minimum age rules, the MoM has a perfectly horrid track record of closely monitoring anything. They knew only that magic was performed, but failed to identify Dobby as the source. They did not know about Mrs. Figg. They knew a muggle was present in the alley but had difficulty identifying the presence of dementors. They don't know that Kingsley, the man assigned to bring in Sirius knew exactly where he was. Many at the ministry were completely in the dark about LV's return for a full year. Since the story is told primarily through Harry, we can only guess what some of the DE implants who work there are hiding. So just because they don't have a record of it does not mean it isn't true. I doubt Voldemort's crew was very well organized while he was away, but for the sake of argument, what if they were intentionally trying to keep muggle-borns off the record so they could never become a part of the WW in the first place? If the DEs could jinx that quill to "forget" the mudbloods... My point is, what if the MoM doesn't know about Mark Evans because someone is hiding him the way Kingsley hid Sirius?
Hogs Head - Mar 15, 2004 5:52 pm (#153 of 361)
Good points, Chemyst. The MoM is either inefficient, riddled with disinformation, or both. And it has many coverts from both the DEs and OoP manipulating information for ill or good. Who knows, other groups, such as Fudge's gang -- previously intent on misinterpreting or suppressing information about VM's return -- may have been doing the same. The genre of fiction gives the writer such wonderful lattitude.
Phoenix - Mar 16, 2004 11:35 am (#154 of 361)
Chemyst: Wouldn't the DEs who could jinx the quill to forget muggle borns have to be at Hogwarts to do it. The Goblet of Fire springs to mind. Moody, aka Crouch Jr, had to be at Hogwarts to make the goblet forget that only three schools participated in the toutnament.
Just a thought, but it seems as though you have to be able to see the thing you are jinxing.
Chemyst - Mar 16, 2004 4:39 pm (#155 of 361)
Wouldn't the DEs who could jinx the quill to forget muggle borns have to be at Hogwarts to do it?
Perhaps. There has been no shortage of DEs on the Hogwarts campus over the years. Lucius used to visit regularly. Mad-Eye Crouch had free roam of the castle. DE parents of students could probably get in for a teacher conference. And too, there may be a simpler, yet more effective way to keep Mark Evans hidden than a direct jinx on a quill. I wasn't speculating on "How-to" nuts and bolts as much as I was suggesting that if Mark Evans is a potential wizard who isn't known to the Ministry, there is a chance that the failure to identify him is intentional.
S.E. Jones - Mar 16, 2004 6:40 pm (#156 of 361)
When did Lucius visit Hogwarts regularly? Wasn't he just there during CoS? Anyway, the book is probably kept someplace very safe and secret where only Dumbledore and McGonagall have access to it, so I doubt anyone's really had a chance to jinx it (Crouch only got to jinx the Goblet because it was setting in the middle of the Entrance hall). I can easily see how Mark wouldn't be known to the MoM (just see my last post), the question is how he would be unknown to Dumbledore. I rather like the idea of Mark's dad dying before his birth and thus Dumbledore simply doesn't realize that the boy has any connection to the man and thus to Harry. Also, if his name had appeared in the book as "Mark Evans" and been seen 11 years ago, would there have been some way for McGonagall to know that it was the same Evans family? Is there some mention of who the child's parents are or just the child's name and where to find them, or does she have to look up where to find them seperate from their names?
Tomoé - Mar 16, 2004 7:03 pm (#157 of 361)
The only problem I see with Mark's father being dead is that he should have died at least five years before his son was born. The only way around is frozen sperm or embryo (embryo is more likely if the father is dead).
hopping hessian - Mar 16, 2004 7:11 pm (#158 of 361)
Somehow, I don't see JKR going in that direction.
At least, I hope she doesn't
S.E. Jones - Mar 16, 2004 7:30 pm (#159 of 361)
Tomoe: The only problem I see with Mark's father being dead is that he should have died at least five years before his son was born.
Um, not really. If you go back and read my post, #143, I explain it out but in summary, it revolves around Dumbledore's (a.k.a. JKR's) choice of words each time he's describing Harry's relatives. In PS, he says "only family" (which may have to include parents and a child, i.e. a family unit) and, in OotP, he says "only remaining relative" (he doesn't specify if he is referring to her currently being the only relative or if she was then the only relative). Therefore, Mark's dad (either as a single guy or as a husband with a wife and no children) wouldn't qualify as "family" in PS which is what was needed for the spell for some reason, then could've died before his son was born (just 10 years ago) and so Dumbledore paid no attention to his widow (since she has no blood connection to Harry) and thus doesn't know about Mark and doesn't know that Harry has any other blood relatives at this moment in time, outside of Petunia and Dudley....
Tomoé - Mar 16, 2004 8:08 pm (#160 of 361)
OK, Mr Evans wasn't father or even husband as Harry became orphan, so didn't qualified as "family" and he was dead bfore DD said Pat was Lily's blood relative. That's clearer now, thanks Sarah (I really need to sleep -_-).
Chemyst - Mar 17, 2004 5:27 am (#161 of 361)
In PA, chapter 1, page two of the Scholastic paperback, it reads: Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia, and their son, Dudley, were Harry's only living relatives.
Sarah, if my understanding of your earlier posts is correct, you believe that since this was narration, it is true to the best of Harry's knowledge and not absolute truth? If that, coupled with your "family" explanation from post #143, were correct interpretations, then Mark's father could still have been a minor at the time James & Lily were murdered. Within the next five years, he'd have come of age, married, and become a father.
Now I'm going to go with a frivolous theory - because it is fun - not necessarily good. Maybe we have been all wrong thinking that Petunia's deal with DD was limited to being about Hers/Dudley's/Vernon's benefits. Maybe she had someone else she was already protecting. Perhaps Lily and Petunia had a little brother to protect, a little brother who would become Mark's father, and the little brother had been hidden at some point. There is such a thing as an Evanesco (to disappear) charm, (peculiar name, eh?) CS introduced us to the effectiveness of memory charms. There are Fidelius charms. The WW has lots of ways to hide things. Wild guessing here: Whatever killed Petunia & Lily's parents really scared the sisters. Lily then protects her kid brother by hiding him and does it so effectively that no one, not even DD, knows he exists. Since Mark's father was hidden, Mark is hidden from the WW as well. Maybe Mark never was on the list to get a Hogwarts letter, but Harry, during his brief stay back at 4PD, will observe or hear something that makes him start to sort out the truth. So Mark's dad could still be alive.
Phoenix - Mar 17, 2004 1:21 pm (#162 of 361)
Way cool theoty, Chemyst! Evanesco. Never really noticed that before. Maybe the spell was created especially for the occasion, to hide Brother Evans (for lack of a better name). Also, maybe Petunia doesn't really hate her sister after all, but is putting on a show to hide the fact that she is hiding a brother.
Which makes me think. If Harry is the one who figures it out (that Petunia is hiding a brother who is father to Mark) how does Harry make sure that he gets into Hogwarts (if he turnes out to be a wizard)? As Dumbledore does't know he exists, he is going to have to do some family research, meaning Petunia may have to be questioned.
Madame Librarian - Mar 17, 2004 8:16 pm (#163 of 361)
Chemyst, bravo! Of all the theories, yours is the best.
Now, Nicola, if Brother Evans was part of the protection deal Pet made with DD, perhaps he knows of his existence. He could probably figure there'd be some offspring someday, and might be on the lookout even if nothing got recorded in the book at Hogwarts. If Harry is the one who "finds" his cousin Mark, once his existence is revealed, and if he's a wizard, DD would have to act to get him to the safety of Hogwarts. A question might be what will happen with Uncle Evans (and Aunt Evans). Are they Muggles, or what?
I don't have an idea as how this would play out if Mark were not magical. Anybody?
Loopy Lupin - Mar 18, 2004 8:07 am (#164 of 361)
I must add my own "bravo" to chemyst's theory. Not sure how it would play out myself, but I have always thought that there was no coincidence that someone named Mark Evans lives near Harry and Harry's mother's maiden name is Evans. Query: Did we know her maiden name before OoP? Or did we just know her as Lily Potter? I ask because a mention of someone named "Evans" at the beginning of a book and then finding out that Harry's mother's name was "Evans" late in the book seems like exactly the kind of "hint" that Rowling would use to set up something later.
Phoenix - Mar 18, 2004 11:49 am (#165 of 361)
The first we heard the name Lily Evans in the books was in OoP, but I think JKR must have said it at some point because I remember reading it on the Lexicon before OoP came out.
S.E. Jones - Mar 18, 2004 1:38 pm (#166 of 361)
It was said in an interview long before OotP came out, but it was never written down in the text of the books until OotP....
Prefect Marcus - Mar 18, 2004 2:57 pm (#167 of 361)
All these theories are good. However, I will be rather disappointed if Mark turns out to be a relative of Harry's, unless he is a very distant cousin. I would feel that Rowling had lied to us.
At least twice she has said that Harry has no living relations left except for the Dursleys. She said it in SS1. She said it in PoA. She also implied it at the Mirror of Erised. I don't mind being tricked. I do mind being lied to.
That being said, I suspect there is something going on here. The fact that a "Mark Evans" appears on the scene in the very book where she has James Potter repeatily calling his future wife "Evans" has to be significant.
Now, what about Harry's eyes? Is Harry going to notice that Mark has his eyes?
Will Lily's blood be flowing through Mark's veins? Will that be significant?
S.E. Jones - Mar 18, 2004 3:04 pm (#168 of 361)
I don't see how she would've been lying. I've already explained my views on both references mentioned in previous posts, so I won't go into it again, but I think the references can be chalked up to red herrings....
Madame Librarian - Mar 18, 2004 4:29 pm (#169 of 361)
We have brought up the character's last name as significant--same as Lily's maiden name, the vanishing spell "evansesco"--but what about the first name? Mark Evans. As in "pay attention to." Another clever double entendre in my opinion. JKR is practically waving a flag in our faces and telling us what to do. I'd be surprised if this goes nowhere.
Phoenix - Mar 19, 2004 8:08 am (#170 of 361)
Good thinking Madame Librarian. I'd be extremely surprised if nothing becomes of Mark. JK wouldn't have put the name in there for no reason.
Loopy Lupin - Mar 19, 2004 11:51 am (#171 of 361)
Nice one Madame. I will probably fall off my chair if, when I get Book 6, and flip through the chapter titles, I see a big fat "Mark Evans" as one of the titles.
Prefect, I don't see anything from SS or PoA on this matter as being "lied to." The only "living relations, relatives, etc." is Dumbledore's comment which would, in turn, inform even future narrative comments since those are based on Harry's point of view and understanding. For example, it did not actually transpire that Kreacher had been hiding in the attic or whatever (even though JKR gave us a subtle hint with Harry being unsatisfied with this explanation)when he disappeared; he had been visiting Narcissa Malfoy. But, this wasn't a lie, just a red herring.
Little Ginny - Mar 20, 2004 5:50 am (#172 of 361)
Chemyst, I like your theory, I just wanted to add one thing:
Maybe people used to know about Mark's father at a time, but the reason that no one thinks about him any more or considers him as Harry's relative, not even Dumbledore, is because they think they know he's dead. What I want to say is that Mark's father could, with the possible help of Petunia, have "done a Wormtail", and now lives undisturbed near Pet (but of course doesn't visit her openly), with no one knowing he's got any connection to Harry.
Chemyst - Mar 20, 2004 6:39 am (#173 of 361)
Ginny, that works so nicely! If DD believes he died, that solves the "Was-DD-Lying?" problem. And of course, a cover story would have been needed to explain his disappearance-- (this isn't Men In Black, after all.) And since Petunia practically never tells Harry anything about her past, it explains why we, the readers, wouldn't know either. Thanks!
haymoni - Mar 22, 2004 12:54 pm (#174 of 361)
I want Mark Evans to be the son of Ron's cousin who is the accountant.
Hogs Head - Mar 23, 2004 8:00 pm (#175 of 361)
M. Librarian is better at prose, but here's how I see Mark Evans emerging in Book 6. (Just my overactive imagination here; no evidence of course.)
If we get through the Privet Drive scene at the start (the one that is supposed to be the shortest stay yet) without Dudley beating poor Mark up again or Mark zapping Dudley with some wand-less hex (like Harry did before Hogwarts or with his sweet Auntie at the start of Book 3), the scene will be the Sorting Hat ritual.
Harry will not notice that a young man named Mark Evans is called forward. The boy will be sorted, perhaps even into Gryffindor but, if not, then into Slytherin. Harry won't make the connection because he'll be chatting it up with his regular chums and the boy will sit far away from Harry.
Next thing you know, as the closing announcements wind down, Dumbledore will casually ask a student to join him at the front or, perhaps, in his office. Harry won't notice that the boy's name is Mark Evans.
Harry will rise and start to leave at the dismissal, but Dumbledore will say, " . . . and Harry Potter, too." Harry will do a patented JKR double-take.
Then, the next chapter will be entitled, "Mark Evans."
Rich - Mar 24, 2004 2:22 am (#176 of 361) Reply
Edited by Mar 24, 2004 2:23 am
I still don't know about Mark Evans. Why would JKR introduce someone into the books so late if they're going to be so vital to the storyline? But then again, it makes sense to do that because if they are going to do something which will be vital to the storyline then they have to be introduced. I'll toss a coin and make up my mind.
Hogs Head, you said Mark might be sorted into Slytherin in what you think might happen...uniting the houses?? Harry, Mark, Luna and _____.
Tails he'll be vital, Heads he won't...Tails. I've made up my mind, Mark is going to be vital to the storyline. Like I didn't rig that
Loopy Lupin - Mar 24, 2004 5:49 am (#177 of 361)
Well, over the course of 7 books you're bound to have characters come up in later books whether they are vital to the storyline or not. The "Lovegoods" were mentioned in GoF, but we don't get Luna until Book 5 and I don't think she's going to be absent in the future. At any rate, I'm glad your coin flip has settled this matter: Mark will be vital to the last two books.
Madame Librarian - Mar 24, 2004 7:59 pm (#178 of 361)
Think of Mark Evans as yet another "hook" pulling us into the intrigue of Harry's family history. JKR cannot let things get too static. New characters, especially ones with a mysterious connection to the main character, add fresh plot directions, fresh personality development and so on.
Poor Harry has had terrible luck with family stuff--he loses his parents before he really even knows them, he's stuck with a dreadful adoptive family, he loses his godfather just as he is starting to really relate and feel loved. JKR has now given us a teaser in book 5 that Harry may yet have some sort of family that he can truly love and care about. I think two books is plenty of time to follow through on this.
Hogs Head - Mar 24, 2004 8:10 pm (#179 of 361)
Whether Mark Evans will be in "hizzownself" (as we say in the South, and not the South of England), I'm not so sure. However, I think his part, whether major or minor, will be interesting. It may even impart something or some item of information that is vital. Maybe.
Phoenix - Mar 30, 2004 12:12 pm (#180 of 361)
Imagine Dudley's reaction at the beginning of book 7 when he finds out Mark is (maybe) a wizard! It would be so funny to see 'Big D' back off from an 11 year old with his gang of mates watching, hee hee.
I think Mark's part will be interesting, but also important. Harry has just lost another person he was very close to - Sirius. Mark may be the person who fills the gap, maybe not straight away, but certainly over the course of the year.
He may also provide Harry with another family member, (Mark's dad-perhaps an uncle or cousin of Lily's).
hopping hessian - Mar 31, 2004 10:01 am (#181 of 361)
The relatives that Harry lost were ones that took care of him, perhaps he will switch to the caring role with Mark and take him under his wing (if indeed he comes to Hogwarts).
Loopy Lupin - Mar 31, 2004 11:21 am (#182 of 361)
Mmm... Hadn't thought about Mark Evans' providing Harry with the opportunity to take someone under his own wing. Not sure how I feel about that. Harry is, to a large degree, still under the wing of others himself. Then again, at this point he's dealt with more than most grown wizards (something that has been true probably since SS//PS). On the other "other" hand, introducing a "little brother" type may seem kind of "gimmicky." I'd hate to see this thing turn into one "Oh no, little Mark's trapped inside a well" rescue mission after another.
Tomoé - Mar 31, 2004 2:05 pm (#183 of 361)
In a scenaristic point of view, Mark, as a new comer in Hogwarts and the Wizarding World, is a perfect device to refresh our memories about the wizarding world.
If Mark is indeed Harry's second cousin (or something like that), the real question is how Mark will react. We know Harry is not of the gossiping kind, but he knew about Mark Evans. Keep in mind Harry didn't know the names of all the fellow Hufflepuff students who was with him in Herbology for five years and they can't be more than 12! It is then possible Mark know Harry by reputation, after all, "neighbourhood children all around were[...] terrified [...] of 'that Potter boy' who, they had been warned, was a hardened hooligan and attended St Brutus's Secure Center for Incurably Criminal Boys". (UK OoP, ch1, p.15)
Not exactly the kind of reputation that will push Mark to befriend Harry.
VeronikaG - Apr 1, 2004 5:54 am (#184 of 361)
Imagine if Mark comes to Hogwarts, sees Harry there, and panics!
hopping hessian - Apr 1, 2004 6:01 am (#185 of 361)
On the other "other" hand, introducing a "little brother" type may seem kind of "gimmicky." I'd hate to see this thing turn into one "Oh no, little Mark's trapped inside a well" rescue mission after another. [Loopy Lupin #182]
I don't want Harry to baby-sit Mark. I just think that it would be interesting for Harry to mentor him. Since the first book Harry has been the outsider, the one who had to be taught. I would like to see Harry take the kindness that's been shown to him be various people in the Wizarding world (The Weasleys, Hagrid, Tom What's it at the Leaky Cauldron, etc) and show it to someone else.
I also like the idea though, of Mark being afraid of Harry because everyone thinks he's in a reform school. Though, Mark has to realize that that's not true when he sees Harry at Hogwarts.
Tomoé - Apr 1, 2004 8:17 am (#186 of 361)
Even if Mark realize Harry went to Hogwarts instead of St Brutus, wild stories could be running among the kids; the time one of them barely escape from both Harry and Big D (he made this up, to look more courageous than another kid who escaped Big D), how one of them have been beaten up by the Potter boy (his mother beaten him up, but she tell him not to report and he needed someone else to accuse) or one of the kid like to make up fear stories because he like to fool the other and the Potter boy is one of his favorite character.
They are not as terrified of Harry as they are of Dudley, because Big D strike more often.
I hope Mark will be stuck in Harry's compartment and that he ask the Sorting hat not be sorted in Gryffindor. ^_^
And I hope Harry will ask an absent-minded Snape "Do you know where's Evans?" so he could answer back "Why would I care where she is!"
S.E. Jones - Apr 1, 2004 8:17 am (#187 of 361)
Wait till Mark meets the Creevey brothers and gets an earful of "the Unofficial Biography of Harry Potter"...
Tomoé - Apr 1, 2004 8:28 am (#188 of 361)
I'm looking forward for that scene Sarah. ^_^
Doris Crockford - Apr 1, 2004 2:02 pm (#189 of 361)
I don't really see Mark being "tutored" about the Wizarding World, because Harry didn't have one (although I guess you could say Ron was, unofficially) and there is no mention of Dean having a mentor (but he was friends with Seamus). But if some stuff was explained to him about Hogwarts and the Wizarding World, I'd like to see Harry try to explain it, but have Hermione jump in all of the time with little facts from Hogwarts, A History (I wouldn't have had Harry try to explain anything, except that if he wasn't there, we wouldn't learn anything else). I think that could potentially be a very funny scene.
rambkowalczyk - Apr 2, 2004 9:39 am (#190 of 361)
I think that the comment that Mark Evans may be frightened of Harry because of the rumors heard around Magnolia Crescent is interesting. After all if a muggle can beat him up what can a wizard do? Alot would depend on the other first years he hangs around with.
I've had mixed feelings about Snape being his father. Maybe a younger relative of Snape that went into hiding because Snape felt he couldn't protect him? or raise him. What made me think twice was the occlumency scene where Snape asks who the dog was. Granted the dog belonged to Aunt Marge on Vernon's side of the family but maybe Mark lived near Aunt Marge and the dog just has a thing for wizards.
Prefect Marcus - Apr 2, 2004 9:48 am (#191 of 361)
I think that if (and I do mean "if") Mark Evans turns up at Hogwarts, it will primarily be used as a method to introduce Harry to his Mother's past. I doubt he will become very important.
VeronikaG - Apr 2, 2004 12:54 pm (#192 of 361)
I think the kid will be important as a plot device, and him being the link to Lily's past is a good idea, Marcus. He's too young, and it's too late in the series for him to become one of the major support characters the way Ginny and Neville are. But he could be important in connection to Harry finding out more about his mom.
Rich - Apr 3, 2004 3:26 am (#193 of 361)
If Mark goes to Hogwarts, it would be good to see him in Slytherin. He gets influenced by them and comes to resent Harry. That'd be pretty interesting.
Phoenix - Apr 3, 2004 11:35 am (#194 of 361)
Or, he is put in Slytherin, is told about Potter, recognises the name, gets to know Harry, and is responsible for uniting the Houses.
Just a guess.
Tomoé - Apr 3, 2004 12:27 pm (#195 of 361)
I don't think he will unite the Houses all by himself, but he could be part of the solution.
S.E. Jones - Apr 3, 2004 7:32 pm (#196 of 361)
I don't see Mark developing into as strong a side character as Ginny or Neville either, but I do see him as being somehow important to the plot. Perhaps he'll be important because of the affect he has on Harry, if Harry does indeed see him as a little brother, moreso than because of who he is as a character?
Tomoé - Apr 4, 2004 6:46 am (#197 of 361)
Right Sarah, not side character as Ginny or Neville, more like the Creevey Brothers.
Prefect Marcus - Apr 4, 2004 12:51 pm (#198 of 361)
There is also the possiblity that Mark Evans is absolutely no relationship to Harry. Rowling did it deliberately so she can enjoy all the wild speculation she knew would happen.
I can imagine her sitting there laughing at us right about now, can't you?
Tomoé - Apr 4, 2004 8:34 pm (#199 of 361)
Yes, Mark Evans will either come out as a important character or turn out to be a red herring. Either way, JKR names him Evans on purpose.
VeronikaG - Apr 7, 2004 9:54 am (#200 of 361)
If I was JKR, reading on the net, and seeing that people loved to speculate about every little thing I wrote, I'd sure throw out red herrings in all directions to keep people from touching onto something real. (Loooong sentence!)
If she put in Mark as a red herring, what is she trying to divert our attention from? It better be good.
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Loopy Lupin - Apr 7, 2004 11:22 am (#201 of 361)
She commented in her last chat that people like us "do love our theories." So, maybe in the course of writing OoP, she named this kid "Evans" just to see what would happen, and here it is 200 posts later.
Mattew Bates - Apr 7, 2004 2:41 pm (#202 of 361)
If "Dark" Mark Evans is a blood relative of Harry's, I'll feel a bit lied to. When I try to imagine a way around that, I keep coming back to the idea that Lily & Petunia's father had a non-blood related stepbrother (think Brady Bunch). I don't see the adoption route there; I think twice is enough for JKR to use that idea. I guess my point is, there are a number of ways to be related, in name only, without spells being involved.
dobbyiscool - Apr 7, 2004 2:57 pm (#203 of 361)
Not to mention, even if they arn't at all related, they could share the same last name. I like it being just a red herring.
Loopy Lupin - Apr 7, 2004 3:08 pm (#204 of 361)
Not sure I follow Mattew. What idea has she used twice that is enough?
Mattew Bates - Apr 8, 2004 3:22 pm (#205 of 361)
Orphaned children, LL. Harry and Voldemort are enough, I think.
S.E. Jones - Apr 8, 2004 3:27 pm (#206 of 361)
Mathew, there are other ways for her to explain Mark without lying to us or going the route of adoption. Take a look at my post #143 and let me know what you think....
mike miller - Apr 9, 2004 4:46 am (#207 of 361)
Although there are very plausible ways of explaining Mark Evans (good job Sarah) my gut tells me he's a red herring. I must admit I have wondered about Harry's family tree ever since the Mirror of Erised. If it turns out that the Evans family is fundamentally Muggle but through some kind of resessive gene spins out a wizard now and then, how important is that to the story line? If there is a connection between Harry and Mark, I think it will only serve to provide the opportunity to fill in Harry's family tree.
The more I read different threads, the more I'm becoming convinced that a key element of the first part of book 6 will be Harry starting to "mature". Understanding is family and what happened to them 16 years ago and dealing with the loss of Sirius will be central to his becoming able to cope with his future. I think we saw the emotional strains on Harry peak in OotP and from here on in we will see him grow to being able to fulfill his prophecy. The only part I see the Mark Evans character play, assuming he's not a red herring, is to help with the family tree
Prefect Marcus - Apr 9, 2004 5:17 am (#208 of 361)
Mike Miller - I think we saw the emotional strains on Harry peak in OotP and from here on in we will see him grow to being able to fulfill his prophecy. The only part I see the Mark Evans character play, assuming he's not a red herring, is to help with the family tree.
I couldn't have said it better, mike.
Loopy Lupin - Apr 9, 2004 7:03 am (#209 of 361)
I like that too mike. I think it will be quite nice to see Harry get past feeling "put upon" and "hard done by."
sewfuninme - Apr 24, 2004 2:15 pm (#210 of 361)
Going back aways, I am convinced that Mark Evans is a cousin to Harry and that we will see him at Hogwarts in book 6. Being age 10, and having the last name, Evans, in OoP does not seem like a coincidence to me. Here is my theory of how he can be a relative.
Mark's father, (Lily and Petunia's brother), along with Lily and Petunia's parents had the Fidelius charm performed on them by Lily, thereby no one knows about them. In discussing Dumbledore's Put-Outer on the Godric's Hollow thread, it occurred to me that Dumbledore was not putting protection on Harry's new home,but rather on Lily's parents, their home, and any siblings that remained at home. If no one knows about them because of the Fidelius Charm, then Harry essentially has no remaining family.
My reasoning that Dumbledore was not protecting Privet Drive is based on the fact that he "slipped the Put-Outer back inside his cloak and set off down the street toward number four, where he sat down on the wall next to the cat."
Nymphadora - Apr 25, 2004 4:52 am (#211 of 361) Reply
Edited by Apr 25, 2004 5:55 am
I was chatting with a friend of mine who I have to admit is a healthier fan than me, and she came up with a very interesting idea when I told her the current theories about little Mark. I have my reservations, but I'd like to run it here and see what you think!
So, in her words (parentheses are my thoughts), what if Petunia gave birth to a wizard 5 years after Dudley? A quite potent one, who started giving out himself very early, and the Dursleys decided that they could not possibly have him in the family, but Petunia would like to have him near as he's her son after all (no one can say anything about Petunia as a mother right?? She's smothering, subjective, blind to Dud's flaws, but she loves him!) So Markie was adopted under Petunia's maiden name, and Dudley beats him up maybe more than anyone else because something "tells" him Mark's kin (I doubt Dudley knows, the thing would have been to send the baby away so that he's not influencing their precious thickheaded son; and at 5, the Dursleys still hoped that magic could be squished out of Harry). So maybe the Dementors were sent to Little Whinging for Mark and stumbled upon Dudley and Harry (although at the trial the MoM have no record of magic people in the area).
I can see serious flaws in the idea, but I like it somewhat to be honest... For once, I think that two 5-year-olds would have noticed, because before giving birth Petunia would be really making a fuss about the new baby. Harry would remember something, Dudley would have protested at having his new punchbag taken away. In fact my friend suggested that Mark was only Petunia's son not Vernon's but I think it's far fetched!!
I don't know, can you elaborate or find any consistent evidence against this idea? I'd like to see what you think!! My friend as well
Marie E. - Apr 25, 2004 10:29 am (#212 of 361)
It's an interesting theory, that's for sure. I would think that both Harry and Dudley would have noticed that Petunia was expecting a baby. I know my almost five year old notices that sort of thing quite easily. I think there is a connection between Harry and Mark Evans, but I don't think this is it.
haymoni - Apr 26, 2004 6:11 am (#213 of 361)
The Weasley cousin that is an accountant is Molly's second cousin so his last name could be anything.
I think Mark is connected to the accountant.
Peregrine - Apr 26, 2004 11:12 am (#214 of 361)
Well, when my dad was in college one of his sisters was pregnant and no one knew (and they all lived in the same house). He left for class one morning and when he came back he was an uncle. Of course, not to sound like I'm making fun of my aunt, but she wasn't exactly as bony as Petunia so she was able to hide it a little better. But if Petunia wasn't expecting the child to be a wizard she wouldn't have hidden it. I guess they could say he died and instead they really gave him away and Dudley was too preoccupied with tv and Harry was locked in the closet too long to notice. Hm, that's a grusome thought though, isn't it?
Loopy Lupin - Apr 26, 2004 11:48 am (#215 of 361)
Mmm. Mark Evans is Petunia's son?
Well, as far as concrete evidence for or against, Umbridge admitted to Harry that she set the dementors after him. So, they weren't there for Mark. That's the only thing that I can think of, offhand, that would qualify as "evidence."
I am afraid that otherwise, I can't see Petunia abandoning a child being part of the story. Yes, this story has murder, deceit, and all sorts of foul things, but I just can't see JKR making this a part of it.
That aside, Harry and Dudley would have been 5 when Mark was sent away. We don't really know what Dudley can or cannot remember since the story is from Harry's point of view mostly, but I cannot imagine that Harry would have no recollection of a younger cousin who was there and then not there. (Presumably, there would have been some amount of time at Number 4 in order for the wizard in young Mark to manifest itself, and Petunia wouldn't have really known about any magical proclivities before then.)
Also, it doesn't seem much like the Dursleys to have given up on squishing the magic out of their own child so easily. The Dursleys were keeping Harry (based upon a promise made to DD, the details of which have yet to be fully revealed) knowing that he was a wizard with every intention of preventing him from going to Hogwarts or otherwise fulfilling his destiny. Harry was 11 and they still had this intention. Why would they have thought that they could prevent Harry from pursuing "wizardhood" but not their own child?
And what of the neighbors? They would have known that Petunia was expecting a child. How would the Dursley's have explained the baby's absence? That aside it would seem quite hard to believe that no one would have ever, in 15 years, ever have mentioned anything or let anything slip about the "missing" Dursley.
All in all an interesting theory, but I don't find it plausible. If it turns out to be true, I'll be very intersted to see how JKR explains this one.
Chris. - Apr 26, 2004 12:16 pm (#216 of 361)
I would see it more plausible if Mark was Petunia's nephew rather than her son, meaning Harry has a long lost cousin apart from Dudders.
Mad Madame Mim - Apr 26, 2004 12:32 pm (#217 of 361)
From age five to age seven, I had a much older (10 years older) half sister come live with me. And from that time span I have one memory of her, I think. The memory is in third person point of view, not my own. Maybe I heard my parents tell it to me so many times that I made it a memory instead of recalling the event.
If all evidence is removed, questions never acknowledged, or no measure made to reinforce the memory, I find it possible that Harry and Dudley would not have any memories of another sibling.
But I don't think the missing sibling theory is part of the plot.
dobbyiscool - Apr 26, 2004 1:29 pm (#218 of 361)
Yeah, I doubt that is part of the plot, either. However, I do like the long lost cousin idea. Or maybe he's Lily's grandfather's sister's son's daugther's son, or something like that (inotherwords, not exactly closely related, but same last name and great-great grandparents). I doubt anyone abandond poor Mark at a young age.
Loopy Lupin - Apr 26, 2004 1:43 pm (#219 of 361)
Yes, I'm thinking cousin myself. There lots of ways that Harry could be distantly related to an Evans without DD's statement that the Dursley's were the "only family he has left" being false.
Julia. - Apr 26, 2004 2:54 pm (#220 of 361)
Well, as we saw in OoP, Dumbledore is not infallable. As mush as I love him, and as great a wizard as he is, he does not know everything. It is possible that Dumbledore does not know about Mark's existance. Remember, except for Lily, the Evanses are muggles, so it would make sence if Dumbledore did not know Lily's entire family tree. If this were the case, than yes, Dumbldore's statement of the Dursleys being "the only family he has left" would be incorrect, but Dumbledore would not have been lying when he said it. Lying, as we know, is something Dumbly would never do, so, I can see him not knowing about Mark as a possibility.
Rich - Apr 27, 2004 11:59 pm (#221 of 361)
He would never lie, but he mightn't say anything in order to not tell the truth...if that makes sense. But he clearly said that the Dursleys are the only family he has left, so I suppose that's the truth.
Nymphadora - Apr 28, 2004 4:24 am (#222 of 361) Reply
Edited by Apr 28, 2004 5:30 am
Hey, that was exactly the kind of discussion I was hoping for!! I'm glad you looked at the idea and considered it, I don't mind dismissing it as I had said myself it had serious flaws according to canon, but who knows how far from the actual plot it might be... All in all I find it intensely gratifying to discuss theories in here!!!
Another branch of my friend's idea was Markie eventually becoming the 7th member of the gang of 6 (HRH, Ginny, Neville, Luna). Seven is a favourite number of JKR's and it seems plausible that a team of 7 will finally confront Voldy, the seventh member not really obvious yet.
I would think it might be so, more probably in the 7th book though as a mere fresher would ill fit with 5th and 6th year students... My own reasoning says that in the 6th book Mark would have to prove himself as worthy of the older students' attention (maybe excelling in the legitimate DADA club? Or having been taken under Harry's wing and taking part in a battle - by chance or mistake probably, being in the heart of events at that time, I leave it to JKR how and why!!).
All in all, I'm increasingly sure that Mark Evans will indeed be sorted in a Hogwarts house. I also like the idea that he will be either a Slytherin or a Hufflepuff, it would be far more interesting than becoming a Gryffindor and enjoying the protection of the house's elders...I feel like Mark would have to prove himself and act towards the inter-House collaboration and unity against the evil that threatens the WW once again, and this time Hogwarts is not as secure. I also enjoy the idea that he might become a Slytherin and stand up to Draco, who's bound to be a bit confused and not so confident and will not expect any opposition from within his own house. And a fresher at that!! My, I would laugh endlessly at such a scene, little Markie standing his ground and jinxing Draco just after a DADA session!!
My two Knuts... Thanx again for considering my friend's and mine!!
Chemyst - Apr 28, 2004 5:34 am (#223 of 361)
Why do we fans seem to "need" to give Harry a long lost relative? (My favorite theory is that Lilly & Pet had a younger brother, but when LV threatened their lives, Lily did some sort of "Evanesco" disappearing charm and he is now totally hidden from the WW. Their little brother became Mark's dad.) But WHY do most fans want Mark to be someone special for Harry?
Denise P. - Apr 28, 2004 5:39 am (#224 of 361)
Most fans want Mark to be a relative so Harry is not so alone. He has the Dursleys but really, who would want them? We all feel a strong need and pull of family, we want Harry to have that as well. Yes, he has the Weasleys but it is not the same as "blood" family. Of course, from the perspective that *I* have, I know that it is not blood that makes a family and Harry will learn that too. Right now though, he yearns for the tie, the connection that he sees within other families.
Mark will be significant I think. JKR could have easily said "the boy Dudley beat up" or something else without naming him. The story would not have changed had he not been named. I think it says something that she named him and that he shares a name with Lily.
Mare - Apr 28, 2004 5:46 am (#225 of 361)
Or she did it on purpose so we have another HUGE red herring to keep us occupied with till book six. Thereby cleverly distracting us from guessing the real plot.
Verbina - Apr 28, 2004 9:11 am (#226 of 361)
But has she ever made a name like that a red herring before? I only ask because most of the time when names are mentioned in passing, the pop up later and do have significance. Look at Figg. A few mentions then viola! She is a squib that knows all about Harry and Hogwarts. Diggle - mentioned in book 1 in the first chapter and whamo! There he is in book 5.
That is not to say however that this couldn't be a new form of red herring from her. Oh! How I would love to figure out how her mind works!!!!
Tomoé - Apr 28, 2004 10:46 am (#227 of 361)
But we are on the Muggle side of the world here. ^_^
There's a mention of Pet's best friend named Yvonne in PS but we never heard of her since. We don't know her last name, she could even be Mark's mother. ^_^
Verbina - Apr 28, 2004 11:08 am (#228 of 361)
There is a difference ethough between giving a name to a person in passing in writing a book and introducing a character. Normally it is the amount of information that you can glean about them from what is written. No matter where in the series.
Figg in book one is mentioned only in passing it seems. Yet from those comments we know that she loves cats, broke her leg and watches Harry for the Dursley's. She is mentioned only in passing as well in the other books. But then she appears as a full fledged character in the 5th book.
Another case being Aunt Marge. Mentioned only once I believe or perhaps twice in book 1 (I can only recall the postcard) she does appear in book 3 and does play a part in it, even though only at the beginning.
Looking at it from this point, we know certain things about Mark Evans. He lives in the neighborhood. Dudley picks on him a great deal and has beaten him up at least once. And Mark is not quite as old as Harry was when he went to Hogwarts for the first time. Plus the obvious surname issue. Not much more than we knew about Figg. Yet, more than those we meet only in passing for a brief moment.
Could he be related to Harry? Possibly. Could he wind up at Hogwarts? maybe. Can we toss any of this out as a possibility? Nope.
Tomoé - Apr 28, 2004 11:47 am (#229 of 361)
We know a lot about Mr Mason, he is a rich builder from whom Vernon hoped to get a huge order, he play golf. We know is wife is afraid of bird and he didn't like to be tricked. He's now aware that a owl deliver a scroll in Vernon house.
In fact, we know almost as much about him as Mundungus until OoP.
Do you think we will see him again?
Julia. - Apr 28, 2004 12:51 pm (#230 of 361)
I don't think so Tomoe. There is one important thing we knew about Mundungus before OoP that we do not know about Mr. Mason. Mundungus is a wizard, and we knew this before OoP. We do not know this of Mr. Mason, nor do we know it of Mark Evans. However, Mark's surname points to it being a possibility, where as we have never heard of a witch or wizard with the surname 'Mason.'
Tomoé - Apr 28, 2004 2:00 pm (#231 of 361)
But there will be more problems with muggle in book 6, maybe Mr Mason will be one of those muggle. ^_^
Verbina - Apr 28, 2004 7:40 pm (#232 of 361)
Problems with Muggles...hmmmm. It could be that someone around Harry and the Dursleys begins to wonder about the strange boy living with them. And if they have seen anything odd about the place, they would wonder a bit more. Who knows. Maybe it will be Mark that accidentally finds out something about Harry and the Dursleys.
Little Ginny - Apr 29, 2004 9:02 am (#233 of 361)
I don't think Mark needs to be wizard to be important for Harry. Assumed that he is indeed related to Harry (which I believe), I think Harry will be happy about any other family apart from the Dursleys, and won't care whether they're muggle or wizard.
What I want to say is, most of us thought Mark would step in Harry's life via the Hogwarts sorting. But it just occured to me that there are other ways Harry could meet him. we know that JKR often lets family members look alike, and we know Harry inherited his mother's eyes. now, I can imagine a scene where Harry runs into a stranger (Mark's father or another relative of Mark's) on the street and suddenly notices that the stranger has just the same eyes as he has.
Do you think this is likely to happen, or have I had too much coffee?
Verbina - Apr 29, 2004 9:11 am (#234 of 361)
Too much coffee??? Never!!!! hehe
Seriously though, it could be. There should be other relatives of Petunia and Lily around. It could be they were not a close family so it would be possible for them to be related in some way and not realize it. I know I would be hard pressed to recognize some of my cousins who are quite a few years older than I am and I rarely see.
Lupin is Lupin. Natch. - Apr 29, 2004 10:06 am (#235 of 361)
Little Ginny, I don't think there's anything wrong with your premise and it's entirely possible. However, the majority of the books are spent at Hogwarts and if a relationship is to develop between Mark and Harry then I think it will have to take place there.
Madame Librarian - Apr 30, 2004 8:10 pm (#236 of 361)
One of the appealing things about having Mark turn out to be a relation of Harry's is the idea, not only that Harry will have family other than the Dursley's, but that this younger cousin will need Harry. Harry will have to take on the role of protector and guide; he will begin to understand what it's like to love in a different way--not as a child receiving love from a parent or guardian adult, but as the "parent" himself. This would be a huge growth factor. Harry would have someone who needs him, who depends on him. He would be less likely to stay in a sulk or react selfishly about trivial things. I'm overstating it a bit, but I think you get my point.
S.E. Jones - Apr 30, 2004 10:39 pm (#237 of 361)
Harry having to or being willing to step into the older brother role would go a long way into helping him advance as an adult. Nothing like direct responsibility to help shape character....
Verbina - May 1, 2004 2:51 pm (#238 of 361)
Not to mention that it would lessen his feelings of being all alone now that Sirius is gone. It could also even open his eyes to the people he has around him now if he was there for someone else not in his immediate family.
Jasmine Evans - May 7, 2004 12:11 pm (#239 of 361)
My thoughts about Mark Evans and have been described in the Fanfiction Forum. Not that I really believe it is like that. Just wild theories.
The story is called Who Knows His Father - Or Her Mother?"
Chris. - May 15, 2004 1:47 pm (#240 of 361)
Mark is not the son of the Weasley accountant, that's for sure.
haymoni - May 15, 2004 2:36 pm (#241 of 361)
Yes, unless JKR is totally changing her mind on this, it looks like Mark should have been Mafalda.
Darn!! One of my theories for Book 6 is shot - although, the book isn't done yet. Maybe she visited this forum and got some ideas!!
MrsGump - May 18, 2004 2:52 pm (#242 of 361)
Who is Mark Evans is up on the poll at the web-site to be answered in the next update. It's neck and neck with "Is Sirius really dead?"
It would be a shame if the Sirius question wins, since we know the answer from JKR chats. But the Mark Evans one... and I can only vote once per computer.
S.E. Jones - May 18, 2004 3:09 pm (#243 of 361)
Actually, MrsGump, you can vote multiple times by going through different sites. See post #138 in the 'JKR Official Site' thread.
MrsGump - May 18, 2004 3:33 pm (#244 of 361)
Thanks! I haven't gotten down to that thread yet, I've been away too long.
I voted at as many as I could, including [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] butMark is at 44% and Sirius 43%.
Loopy Lupin - May 20, 2004 7:17 am (#245 of 361)
Today it is Sirius at 44% and Mark at 43%...Go, Go, Go, Mark!
Tomoé - May 20, 2004 8:32 am (#246 of 361)
Sirius is back to 43% and Mark to 44%.
Loopy Lupin - May 20, 2004 12:56 pm (#247 of 361)
Brian - May 27, 2004 8:09 am (#248 of 361)
I think so far nobody has thought about this: Mark Evans cannot be a wizard, because we are told at Harry's hearing at the Wizengamot that there are no wizards in Little Whinging. Maybe he is a Squib, like Mrs. Figg. But what we have learnt after reading 5 JKR books is that she doesn't give us useless information. Almost every detail or person mentioned turns out to be somebody or something important in the plot. It seems very unlikely that she would give us Mark's name, surname, and his age, if he wasn't going to take a more significant part in the coming books. We can only hope she reveals more information about him in her website, otherwise, we'll have to wait till book 6 is finished.
Loopy Lupin - May 27, 2004 8:22 am (#249 of 361)
Mark Evans could be a wizard, I think, if his parents were Muggles. According to one of the chats, there is a special ledger at Hogwarts that identifies the muggle borns. The Ministry may not be privy to this information.
ex-FAHgeek - May 27, 2004 10:01 am (#250 of 361)
---quote--- Yes, unless JKR is totally changing her mind on this, it looks like Mark should have been Mafalda. ---end quote---
Except that the Weasley cousin was supposed to come from Molly's side of the family, so in theory Mark's last name would be Prewett if he were Mafalda's replacement.
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S.E. Jones - May 27, 2004 11:35 am (#251 of 361)
Brian: Mark Evans cannot be a wizard, because we are told at Harry's hearing at the Wizengamot that there are no wizards in Little Whinging.
Yes, as Loopy Lupin stated, the MoM wouldn't know he's a wizard until he entered Hogwarts if he were a Muggle-born. The MoM doesn't find out who is and who isn't magical until the child recieves a letter (unless of course the child comes from a wizarding family and openly displays magic before the age of 11, thus other people in the magical community find out). We know this from an interview from JKR:
Q: Also how does the Ministry of Magic find out these kids have powers?
A: The Ministry of Magic doesn't find out which children are magic. In Hogwarts there's a magical quill which detects the birth of a magical child, and writes his or her name down in a large parchment book. Every year Professor McGonagall checks the book, and sends owls to the people who are turning 11.
Loopy Lupin - May 27, 2004 11:48 am (#252 of 361)
Nice one Sarah; Its very interesting that she would make it plain that the MOM doesn't find out who is magic.
haymoni - May 27, 2004 3:44 pm (#253 of 361)
JKR said on her website that the Weasley cousin accountant had a daughter that was supposed to be Mafalda - Slytherin, know-it-all blah blah blah.
My original guess that Mark Evans was the child of this accountant was made before her website update, before we knew that Molly's maiden name was Prewett and before we knew about Mafalda.
I was just disappointed that one of my theories for Book 6 was shot.
Loopy Lupin - May 28, 2004 4:54 am (#254 of 361)
Oh well, that's how it goes. Good theory while it lasted though.
Liz - May 30, 2004 8:36 pm (#255 of 361)
Reply to Brian, Since when did JKR have a website? Beth
S.E. Jones - May 30, 2004 9:43 pm (#256 of 361)
Beth, check out the 'JKR Official Site' thread. When in doubt, try our wonderful search function; it can come in really handy.
Liz - Jun 1, 2004 12:24 pm (#257 of 361)
Magical Max - Jun 11, 2004 3:09 am (#258 of 361) Reply
Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 11, 2004 3:24 pm
When we hear of Dudley and co. thumping the stuffing out of Mark Evans, no mention is made of where this takes place. We assume it happens in the local park or streets. But given Dudley has a rather flexible curfew, there's no reason why he and his gang couldn't wander into the next suburb and beat Mark up. Mark probably attends the same school as Dudley , thus making him a viable target.
Now if Mark lives in the next suburb or two, that might explain why the MoM has Harry as the only wizard living in Little Whinging.
Penny Lane. - Jun 11, 2004 3:55 am (#259 of 361)
Mark probably attends the same school as Dudley , thus making him a viable target.
Mark Evans was said to be 10 years old in OoP, and Dudley started Smeltings the same time as Harry started at Hogwarts - around 11.
I would think that the gang could move to the nexxt "burb", as they do have bicycles. But that still wouldn't explain how Harry knew who he was.
I'm afraid that its going to turn out to just be a strange coinsidence. I know that JKR doesn't name charcters that we don't know, but she does know now that her fans dig into the books to find anything and everything. She could (quite cruelly) throw in a common name to try and throw us off. Or even just to fuel fanfiction.
mike miller - Jun 11, 2004 5:56 am (#260 of 361)
If Mark Evans is somehow related to Harry, why has ne not exhibited some "emotional magic" while being beaten by Dudley? Harry did some very interesting things under stress prior to receiving his Hogwarts letter. Dudley would recognize magic at this point and probably have a very different reaction to Mark if he "let something slip". Maybe Mark is related but has no magical abilities.
My gut tells me Mark is a red herring, but JKR has fooled me before!
Catherine - Jun 11, 2004 6:01 am (#261 of 361)
Well, Harry has performed emotional magic before while trying to escape Dudley's gang (the jumping on the roof incident), but Harry's glasses were broken because Dudley always punched him in the nose.
Harry's magical abilities did not prevent him from being poked and pinched and hit by Dudley. The movie CoS, while not canon, shows Dudley still physically bullies Harry and that the Dursleys allow it.
So the lack of emotional magic by Mark Evans in this one instance in OoP doesn't mean that much. But it is something to watch out for!
haymoni - Jun 11, 2004 9:39 am (#262 of 361)
It could have been the only time that Dudley beat up Mark.
I still think Mark will be at Hogwarts getting sorted when we first see him. Wouldn't it be something if Mr. & Mrs. Evans pay a visit to the Dudleys once they find out Harry doesn't really go to St. Brutus's?
sewfuninme - Jun 11, 2004 2:16 pm (#263 of 361)
haymoni, that would be funny. The neighbors learning that the Dursleys have lied for five years about where Harry goes to school. I think that would mean egg on the Dursleys faces.
Dudly said that Mark had "cheeked" him. I've wondered if the incident didn't involve some sort of magic on Mark's part. Perhaps Dudley said or did something that provoked a magical reaction on Marks' part, causing Dudley to feel he had to show Mark that magic would not protect him. Or something like that.
S.E. Jones - Jun 11, 2004 2:29 pm (#264 of 361)
I've wondered if the incident didn't involve some sort of magic on Mark's part. Perhaps Dudley said or did something that provoked a magical reaction on Marks' part, causing Dudley to feel he had to show Mark that magic would not protect him. Or something like that
So Dudley may have taken the jab at Mark that he longed to take at Harry? I could see that. I could see him wanting to take out some frustrations on a kid who does't know he's magical for all the terror he's experienced because of Harry and his magical friends.... Or maybe he just didn't realize it was magic for some reason, like the emotional response was to knock Dudley backward and Dud thought he'd been pushed or something....
haymoni - Jun 11, 2004 2:51 pm (#265 of 361)
That's good, S.E. Jones - I've been meaning to tell you by the way, that I thought of your avatar when I saw POA - "That stag looks familiar," I thought.
It is possible that Mark reminded Dudley of Harry, but I'm guessing it would have been a subconscious thing - I don't think that Dudley is that bright.
Penny Lane. - Jun 11, 2004 3:00 pm (#266 of 361)
I likee the idea of Mark being frustrated and ... say unintentionally causing Dudley's bike to fall over, embarrassing Dudley. Dudley would respond with "that little twit threw a rock at me or something" and they all jump him. Poor kid. I hope he is magical.
Round Pink Spider - Jun 13, 2004 9:43 am (#267 of 361)
I just stumbled across this thread, and I haven't read all the posts, but I think S. E. Jones is right. It's really stretching credulity to think that JKR just happened to have Harry mention this young man who just happened to have the same last name as Petunia's and Lily's maiden name, and whom Harry just happened to mention was 10 years old in the OotP. The Harry Potter books aren't reality; JKR may throw in red herrings, but there are no coincidences. Whether he's related to Harry or not, I expect him in Hogwarts next year.
Actually, I've seen speculation that Lily and Petunia were adopted by Muggles or squibs, which could make Mark Evans a relative of the adoptive family. I have no opinion on that subject, I'm just mentioning it. I know of no reason to believe they were adopted. Certainly, from the wording of the books, it does kind of SOUND like Lily and Petunia were raised by squibs (they were so delighted that Lily turned out to have magical power).
S.E. Jones - Jun 13, 2004 2:20 pm (#268 of 361)
Actually, the word was "proud" not "delighted". Still, that at least shows they were raised by Muggles who were open to magic, like Hermione's parents are, and like the Creevey's dad. I made a suggestion for how Mark could be related to the Evans sisters in posts 139, 143, and 159, in case anyone is interested.
Brian - Jun 14, 2004 7:00 am (#269 of 361)
I wanted to tell all those who say Mark Evans' last name is Evans, just because it's a common name, and he's not related to Harry in any way, and he's just a neighbour of him, that I'm sure you're wrong. I can't think of something JK detailed in the books, and later it didn't turn out to be important. For instance, take Mrs. Figg. At the end of GoF we heard about Arabella Figg, and everybody knew she related to the innocent old neighbour of Harry's. In OoP it turned out to be right. It's the same here. She didn't choose Mark's last name arbitrarily, there's definitely a relation to Lily's family, and I can't wait till JK gives us more information.
Accio Book Six - Jun 23, 2004 9:55 am (#270 of 361)
Yeah, JKR knows Lily and Petunia too much to just use their name lightly. I'm wondering if MAYBE L&P's dad left when they were very small. MAYBE he had other kids apart from them and L&P were raised by their mom and stepdad. I know that most of my friends who've had their step dad their whole life call him "Dad" just like I call my dad. I mean, we don't know a lot about the Evans family. What if L&P never knew? What if they did but never really thought about it again? I mean, Dumbledore is smart, but he doesn't know EVERYTHING. How could he know that one? Even if they DID know that L&P's father was around, they might not know if he had more kids or anything like that...
EDIT: OH, and Harry, though he might know that his mom's last name was Evans, probably wouldn't think twice when he was mentioning Mark Evans. A) it's probably not on his mind a lot and B) it's a common name.
I just added that to say why Harry didn't think right away that he might be related to this kid.
Padfoot - Jun 23, 2004 10:06 am (#271 of 361)
Well, how many times do we meet someone with the same last name and think they are a long lost sibling we never heard of? Let alone someone with your mother's maiden name. Never! Harry has not even considered the possibility that Mark Evans is related to him. If he does turn out to be related, then Harry will be in for a big shock.
Accio Book Six - Jun 23, 2004 10:14 am (#272 of 361)
If my idea came to pass (though that's a big IF) Harry would have a half-first cousin. That would be the second chance at having a "sort of" sibling. Plus we know they have at least ONE thing in common... they both hate Dudley, and they'r eboth pretty cheeky with him.
rambkowalczyk - Jun 29, 2004 2:07 pm (#273 of 361)
I came up with this idea as I was posting in the Book 6 Thread. We've always assumed that Evans is the name of the father. Suppose it is the name of his mother? Perhaps there is some lost cousin of Petunia's that got involved with a wizard but he left her. (In much the same way Tom's father left his mother.) She however wanted nothing to do with him so she gave the child her name. It wouldn't occur to Petunia that this Mark is related to her because she has no brothers or male cousins. The ministry of Magic would have no record of Wizards living there because Mark's mother is a muggle. The father is long gone and I don't think they keep track of underage wizards.
Dr Filibuster - Jun 29, 2004 3:31 pm (#274 of 361) Reply
Edited by S.E. Jones Jun 30, 2004 12:04 am
Ram....So when Mark starts Hogwarts in September he may discover he is a halfblood prince??? Hmmm, suppose it all depends who his wizard father was.
Cassandra1234 - Jun 30, 2004 10:27 am (#275 of 361)
I do agree that Mark will have significance. The reason Dumbledore didn't mention him or think about putting Harry with them is they're probably too distant a relation to Lilly for Dumbledore's purpose. Harry needed to be in a house where his "mother's blood" was in order for the protection to work. Mark's family, if indeed they are related to Petunia and Lilly, could be a far distant relation.
The only thing that strikes me is during Harry's hearing, Fudge claims they have no record of a witch or wizzard living around Harry. He also says that situation has been carefully monitored. Makes me think...
Loopy Lupin - Jun 30, 2004 10:56 am (#276 of 361)
The only thing that strikes me is during Harry's hearing, Fudge claims they have no record of a witch or wizzard living around Harry. He also says that situation has been carefully monitored. Makes me think... Casandra1234
I think we've discussed this before on this thread. If Mark is a wizard, but muggleborn, his name has been written down in Hogwarts by the special quill since he was born. There is no indication that the Ministry is privy to that information. So, they wouldn't know of any muggleborn wizards untill they start school.
sewfuninme - Jun 30, 2004 6:04 pm (#277 of 361)
It would also be possible for Mark's father to have been too young to care for a toddler in addition to being a fairly distant relative. If Marks' grandfather had died as a result of VWWI, then his child could have been, say 17 or 18. That would make him about the right age now to have a 10 year old son.
eggplant - Jul 1, 2004 9:38 am (#278 of 361)
There may be other Riddle diaries besides the one that preserved the 16 year old Riddle in book 2, maybe there is one that brings back the 10 year old Riddle. This younger version of Riddle has not yet turned totally evil, in fact if placed in a proper environment he might even grow up to be a decent man. Perhaps Harry’s mother found the diary and was kind to him, so to hide his connection to such a infamous wizard the young Mr. Riddle changed his name to Mark Evans, the Half Blood Prince.
[Penelope*, *Lady]*Lady Penelope* - Jul 1, 2004 10:03 am (#279 of 361)
Maybe I don't quite understand what you're saying, Eggplant. Are you saying that Mark Evans might be Tom Riddle from an earlier diary? Because I was under the impression that the diaries don't really "bring back" anyone, but that they're more like a ghost. Not quite transparent like the ghosts that float around Hogwarts, but not solid either. Therefore, I don't think that Mark is in any way related to the Riddle family. However, I do think that there is a possiblity that Mark could be the Half Blood Prince. Well, him or Snape!
Tomoé - Jul 1, 2004 3:03 pm (#280 of 361)
I don't think Tom knew enough Dark Magic back when he was a 10 to bewitch his diary like he did with his 1942-43's one. Ok, maybe I get it wrong and you can do a "shadow" of yourself from when you were younger, but still, why do a diary with his 10 year old self when he have one with his 16 year old self already?
And with who did that shadow live? His new parents don't ask themselves why the kid don't grow up? That's too fishy ...
haymoni - Jul 6, 2004 5:41 am (#281 of 361)
Checked the Poll - I am thoroughly disappointed!
sewfuninme - Jul 6, 2004 5:45 am (#282 of 361)
So am I. I was so sure.
MrsGump - Jul 6, 2004 5:46 am (#283 of 361)
Me too, haymoni. Especially since I begged all my Harry Potter fan students to vote for it from any computer they could get their hands on. Sigh.
haymoni - Jul 6, 2004 5:55 am (#284 of 361)
I don't know if I'm disappointed with her or if I am disappointed at myself.
Edit - I put too much in this posting that could spoil things for others. I'll hold off.
Fawkes Forever - Jul 6, 2004 6:01 am (#285 of 361)
At the risk of this being a spoiler.... at least she told us in a witty manner..... sometimes we are just too clever for our own good
I'll say nothing else until we are allowed to talk about the poll.... give everyone a chance to read it!
Loopy Lupin - Jul 6, 2004 6:05 am (#286 of 361)
Too clever for our own good, indeed! I know we aren't supposed to use netspeak, but all I can say is: grrrr!
Casey - Jul 6, 2004 6:05 am (#287 of 361)
Ya know, I was never that worried about Mark Evans. I felt sort of bad when everyone thought he was this huge deal, and I never gave him a second thought. Now, I'm very excited.
Peregrine - Jul 6, 2004 6:57 am (#288 of 361)
Poor Mark...we had such lofty goals for him...
Ah well, at least we can count him off the list for HBP...that'll narrow that topic down to about 999 suspects now.
Susanne - Jul 6, 2004 7:27 am (#289 of 361)
Oh well, as the lady herself said - it was her own fault we got so excited! And to think of all the times I logged on to different versions of the site to vote again and again!
Maybe she was voting for the other questions herself!!
FCBarca - Jul 6, 2004 8:01 am (#290 of 361)
I was actually right and wrong at the same time. I was certain he was a red herring...
TGF - Jul 6, 2004 8:54 am (#291 of 361)
Poor Mark Evans... 290 posts, and nothing to show for it!
NYCNomad - Jul 6, 2004 8:59 am (#292 of 361)
I can't say I'm suprised, I thought I heard that a long time ago just after the question first started popping up. That's why I was going for the question in second place. I wonder if she'll answer that next.
Nymphadora - Jul 6, 2004 9:31 am (#293 of 361) Reply
Edited by Jul 6, 2004 10:35 am
Huge disappointment, really... but it's all our fault, I think. I was among those who believed in little Mark and had already given him a student status in my mind, not to mention a nomination for the HBP's identity! And all that, from a simple line, a more-than-common surname (which probably was used in the first place as Lily's to show how a powerful witch can descend from Muggle commoners), a denoted age conspicuous enough for the wizard world... Squashed hopes, really... but I can't help but be excited at who the new person will be, after all.
Loopy Lupin - Jul 6, 2004 9:33 am (#294 of 361)
I know what you mean Tonks. In my book not only was he well on his way to headboyship, but he was also royalty.
Cuivienen - Jul 6, 2004 9:39 am (#295 of 361)
I don't know, for a background character he should be proud to have so many posts. I don't think there was ever this much about any other irrelevant character.
Gina R Snape - Jul 6, 2004 12:29 pm (#296 of 361)
Indeed! Not to mention we should pat ourselves on the collective back for being such clever sleuths.
Poor JKR will likely remember to be even more careful now, lest a faux-red herring pass unnoticed. Then again, I think she likes all this, and doesn't really feel bad at all...
Dr Filibuster - Jul 6, 2004 1:38 pm (#297 of 361)
I can only access the text only version of JKRowling.com.
I haven't been able to find any info on the whole voting thing, let alone an update with the reply on Mark Evans.
Are you banned from giving the exact quote on this thread? If we have just delayed any quotes, then when can somebody pop it on here?
Prefect Marcus - Jul 6, 2004 1:52 pm (#298 of 361)
The text is in a flash screen making it difficult to cut-and-paste.
In a nutshell, Rowling says Mark Evans is a nobody. He is just a background character that required a name. Because she made her fans go to such great lengths for nothing, she is taking her family into hiding in Bolivia.
Dr Filibuster - Jul 6, 2004 2:17 pm (#299 of 361)
Hmmm, what's the significance of Bolivia?
Cuivienen - Jul 6, 2004 2:35 pm (#300 of 361)
I seem to remember Bolivia being mentioned in the discussions on Quidditch victories and losses -- unless I'm just thinking of Bulgaria. ;-)
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Prefect Marcus - Jul 6, 2004 2:36 pm (#301 of 361)
Hmmmm, maybe we better start a new thread on Bolivia's significance.
haymoni - Jul 6, 2004 2:41 pm (#302 of 361)
Isn't that where Paul Newman & Robert Redford ran off to? I mean "Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid"?
Prefect Marcus - Jul 6, 2004 2:54 pm (#303 of 361)
That is also where they died. Though there are rumors at least one of them survived.
Julia. - Jul 6, 2004 3:06 pm (#304 of 361)
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! *runs off crying* I was in the Mark=HBP camp too, so this is a major blow for me. I'm thinking of developing a "pebble in the shoe" hex and testing it on JKR...
almightykneazle33 - Jul 6, 2004 7:18 pm (#305 of 361)
WAAAAAAAAAAA >:O JKR how could you! .
-.- I'm very disapointed... I thought I was all clever for noticing him too.
``--the almighty kneazle--``
Ff3girl - Jul 6, 2004 10:50 pm (#306 of 361)
Honestly, I didn't notice him while I was reading... but once I had heard about him here, I had SO MANY HOPES! *sniffle* I mean, there are just sooo many unfair, unintended coincidences. :-(
tracie1976 - Jul 7, 2004 5:37 am (#307 of 361)
I just got to say that I was not disappointed in JKR's answer. I had no hopes/dreams concerning Mark
Little Ginny - Jul 7, 2004 5:56 am (#308 of 361)
I had more than three theories about who Mark could be, and now they're all... simply... worthless!!!
icthestrals - Jul 7, 2004 6:31 am (#309 of 361)
Dr Filibuster, SE Jones posted the entire Mark Evans poll response on the Official JK Rowling Site thread.
Peregrine - Jul 7, 2004 6:59 am (#310 of 361)
Personally I'm glad to find out how wrong I was now instead of when HBP comes out. It was too much strain finding out my wild guesses were wrong while trying to read OoP ("Who's this Umbridge woman? Mrs. Figg is supposed to be the new DADA teacher!")
Loopy Lupin - Jul 7, 2004 7:05 am (#311 of 361)
I have already expressed my dismay here, but I am compelled to say more.
In OoP, we find out that Lily's last name is Evans. We get a passing reference to a 10-year-old boy who happens to be named Evans as well. Coincidence my foot! I don't buy it for a second. "Vairy funny" Ms. Rowling. Pfffft!
Julia. - Jul 7, 2004 8:00 am (#312 of 361)
Hey Lupin, wanna help me with that pebble in the shoe hex?
Loopy Lupin - Jul 7, 2004 8:45 am (#313 of 361)
Indeed I do. Or here's another idea. I wasn't at the Pennsylvania gathering, but I did see those little cartoons that thread is linked to at some point. Anyway, in addition to the pebble in the shoe hex, perhaps we can BOTHER her! But not for too long, she needs to get back to work.
Loopy Lupin - Jul 7, 2004 11:26 am (#314 of 361)
Sorry for the double post, but I was skimming through this thread and I wrote this back in April:
Mark Evans #201 - Loopy Lupin Apr 7, 2004 12:22 pm She commented in her last chat that people like us "do love our theories." So, maybe in the course of writing OoP, she named this kid "Evans" just to see what would happen, and here it is 200 posts later.
See! see! I'm onto you Jo!
haymoni - Jul 7, 2004 12:02 pm (#315 of 361)
I have to admit that I wondered about the "if any" in the poll question.
I just can't believe that someone as thorough as JKR - notebooks, writing for 13 years, etc. - couldn't think of a better name for Mark Evans - or a better age.
This is so bad it should be a Flint.
Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 12:20 pm (#316 of 361)
Now, Haymoni. Just because you fell for it, don't go bitter on us. :-)
Loopy Lupin - Jul 7, 2004 12:45 pm (#317 of 361)
This is so bad it should be a Flint.-- haymoni
Generally, we consider "Flints" to be a JKR mistake, her math, her not paying attention, her not anticipating that millions of us would dissect her books endlessly.
This, however, was on purpose, I tell ya!
Catherine - Jul 7, 2004 2:43 pm (#318 of 361)
The worst part is that JKR knows that she can get away with it because--hey--what are we going to do about it, anyway? Not buy the next book? Not visit her website anymore? She knows we're good and hungry and she just dangled some bait and then reeled us in like catfish!
It's not like we can even really hex her, because we have to make sure that she keeps on writing.
So JKR, if you read this, please know that you have my admiration for your wit and sense of fun, but enough is enough! Save it for HBP!
DJ Evans - Jul 7, 2004 3:21 pm (#319 of 361)
This, however, was on purpose, I tell ya! So true, Loopy Lupin, so true!
I can just see Jo now lounging back with her tall chilled drink--just giggling away where ever she is. We know she wouldn't reveal her true location? What I'm wondering--if at first Mark Evans wasn't just a filler/character as she said. Then as she knew she would be releasing the title for book 6 & how much we all "do" dissect her books, well what better way to throw us off the correct path. Throw in a sneaky poll question about a character that we've already been debating on for quite a while already? As Ron would say: Brilliant Jo!!!! I say 50 points to Jo, myself. She will definitely keep us all on our toes and I love her for it. There isn't another like her!!!
Dan Wells - Jul 7, 2004 6:42 pm (#320 of 361)
Okay, folks. JKR messed up.
She's written some millions of words on Harry Potter and given all of us hours and hours of joy reading her work. One accidental red herring in all of those works isn't too bad!
Has JKR ever actually lied to us before about the plots and characters of the stories? Like Dumbledore, she'll beg off a question rather than lie.
Behind the joke about running her family off out of the country, it seemed to me, was a genuine regret that the Mark Evans accident got carried so far.
I don't really think she's laughing at the fans. I hope that no one here *really* thinks she is, either.
Please don't rake her over the coals. She has to enjoy writing these books or they'll take forever to write and not be as well written.
True she's earned a ton of money with Harry, but we all know that's not why she wrote about him in the first place. If, by our complaints and whines over this error, her enjoyment of the writing is harmed it would be a tragedy.
Thanks for your time,
DJ Evans - Jul 7, 2004 7:37 pm (#321 of 361)
Dan: I don't really think she's laughing at the fans. I hope that no one here *really* thinks she is, either.
Gosh, if you are referring to my post #319 Dan, then I'm sorry if you thought I meant Jo is laughing "at" us. No way did I mean that. I just think Jo has a wonderful sense of humor and she can see the humor it in all--as most of us can too. Come on, here is this "nobody" (as Jo herself stated him as) of character with the last name of Evans and her fans run with it. And I can see her putting him as one of the poll questions on purpose, just as "is Sirius really dead" or however that question was worded. I believe she gets as big of a kick seeing how far we will all do go with our theories, character analysis, and such, as much as we do. It just shows how much we all love her work. I don't think you will find one person on this forum who wouldn't agree that she isn't an excellent writer and most would consider her their favorite author!! While we are all waiting patiently for the next installment, this forum is just our way of keeping in touch with the Harry Potter world. Again, I'm sorry if you took what I said the wrong way, in no way was it meant to be a mean comment toward Jo.
Prefect Marcus - Jul 7, 2004 9:46 pm (#322 of 361)
I do not understand. How is naming Dudley's latest punching bag 'Mark Evans' "Messing up"?
haymoni - Jul 8, 2004 4:26 am (#323 of 361)
That was me, Marcus. I guess I thought that after over a decade of planning, carefully selecting names, places, stringing things together, etc. that she would have seen where naming a character "Evans" would go.
Maybe it was a test to see if we were reading carefully.
Or it was, just as she said, a mistake.
I remember thinking that the people who jumped on the Marcus Flint error and the ages of the older Weasleys should get a life. Now here I am!
I have gone through my stages of grief over the loss of Mark Evans.
I can go back to appreciating JKR's talents and guessing about the HBP.
Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 4:30 am (#324 of 361)
I don't think it was a mistake, but, as you said haymoni, a test.
Evans is a very common name, and maybe it was just to show Lily was a normal person, no airs and graces.
Peregrine - Jul 8, 2004 7:44 am (#325 of 361)
The thing I love most about this is that we're still talking about him.
Chris. - Jul 8, 2004 7:59 am (#326 of 361)
Prefect Marcus - Jul 8, 2004 8:09 am (#327 of 361)
I don't know what you're on about, Peregrine. I certainly haven't been talking about Mark Evans. :-)
Loopy Lupin - Jul 8, 2004 12:10 pm (#328 of 361)
Just need to clarify a point. A couple posts back, I reprinted something I wrote in April about JKR playing a little joke. (I was reminded of it by reviewing things I had written on this thread.) I should have looked at the posts surrounding it because a couple days previously Prefect Marcus wrote the following:
Prefect Marcus - Apr 4, 2004 1:51 pm (#198 of 327)<P>
There is also the possiblity that Mark Evans is absolutely no relationship to Harry. Rowling did it deliberately so she can enjoy all the wild speculation she knew would happen.
I can imagine her sitting there laughing at us right about now, can't you?
I point this out to give credit where credit is due because I was obviously responding to Marcus and not making an original comment. Looks like Marcus was the first to smell a rat, so to speak.
Prefect Marcus - Jul 8, 2004 1:09 pm (#329 of 361)
I was wondering if you would notice. :-)
I never really expected Mark to amount to much. Dumbledore had specifically said the Dursley's were Harry's only living relatives and far too many things in the series supported that. All the theories involving Mark were just too convoluted for Occam's Razor.
It's nice to be proven right occasionally, especially after guessing so terribly wrong about who died in OoP, the Room of Requirement, DADA teacher #5, and Harry becoming a prefect among other things. *sigh*
rambkowalczyk - Jul 8, 2004 3:20 pm (#330 of 361)
I have to admit when I read JKR answer I chuckled. Isn't that why we like Harry Potter because of her way with words.
Loopy Lupin - Jul 9, 2004 5:11 am (#331 of 361)
Dumbledore had specifically said the Dursley's were Harry's only living relatives -- Prefect Marcus
No problem Marcus although I must admit a little disappointment in not being as prescient as I thought I had been.
I must also admit that even though I was an avid Mark Evans speculator (notwithstanding my acknowledgement of the possibility that JKR was pulling our legs), I wondered how she was going to get around the relatives issue. I figured DD would just turn out to be wrong but kind of knew that that would not have been much like DD.
Tomoé - Jul 9, 2004 7:06 am (#332 of 361)
I wasn't desappointed to read Mark Evans was nobody, Mark was in my "could be" list of theories, not in my pet theories list. But I enjoyed Jo's answer a lot!
Hogs Head - Jul 9, 2004 2:27 pm (#333 of 361)
I suppose this thread will soon move to the archives? Even there it will serve as a good reminder that some theories are valid, others are red herrings, and some are just creative reaction to coincidence (or even understandable human oversight). I think it would have been neat, though, for Harry to have a little cousin.
Chemyst - Jul 9, 2004 4:53 pm (#334 of 361)
Hey, slow down a minute! Looks like Marcus was the first to smell a rat, so to speak. Back up a couple months, please.
Chemyst - Feb 14, 2004 8:08 am (#122 of 333)
In PA, chapter 1, page two of the Scholastic paperback, it reads: Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia, and their son, Dudley, were Harry's only living relatives. I don't see how it could be much plainer than that. I suppose one could try to say the verb were, being past tense and Mark's not having been born until Harry was about five could be argued, but unless we are willing to go with frozen embryo theories... I just haven't been convinced they are related yet.
I wanted so badly to point this out the day JKR posted the Mark Evans answer. Tonight I have succumbed!
(I was pushed!)
Prefect Marcus - Jul 9, 2004 5:59 pm (#335 of 361)
Well, Chemyst, since you brought it up --
What about posts 152, 155, 161, 173?
draco all the way - Jul 10, 2004 1:11 am (#336 of 361)
Well as soon as I saw the Mark Evans question on the poll I knew the answer. She wouldn't have put it up if were important. Since when has JKR divulged info willingly prior to the release of the book?
But, her answer made me laugh. And she always thinks of such inventive titles. Toenail of Icklibogg- I'd read it!
Chemyst - Jul 10, 2004 2:43 am (#337 of 361)
Well, Chemyst, since you brought it up -- What about posts 152, 155, 161, 173?
Marcus, you have way too much time on your hands, why don't you go volunteer for S.P.E.W.?
(You actually looked all this up??? I have so much sympathy for your wife.)
152 & 155 - In both of these posts, "I was suggesting that if Mark Evans is a potential wizard who isn't known to the Ministry, there is a chance that the failure to identify him is intentional."
The quote is from 155. Notice that "if" means I never said he was. 'You think I'm on thin ice here? So do I, but it's a lightweight argument; it'll hold. After all, Switching Houses, Prefect Marcus - May 3, 2004 2:45 pm (#29 of 127) "You will note that I said, 'What if...'" (It sounds like a good enough defense to me!)
161 - "Now I'm going to go with a frivolous theory - because it is fun - not necessarily good."
You gotta' admit it was fun. "Evanesco" Yep, brilliant.
173 - Just tidying up a loose end on a theory I always believed was frivolous.
223 - You didn't list this, but the following month I was still protesting the idea that Mark was a relative, "Why do fans seem to "need" to give Harry a long lost relative? [...] WHY do most fans want Mark to be someone special for Harry?"
And finally, if the logic isn't too flimsy, after that I stopped posting on this thread and disappeared, like Pansy, because I was off to reform. *cough*.
Catherine - Jul 10, 2004 5:36 am (#338 of 361)
# cough and choking* Chemyst, I'm not sure that you need to reform, but if you do, I'll still happily read any of your posts.
That said, I am still surprised that I find myself posting on this thread, since I have nothing new to add about the nobody character Mark Evans.
Should we name those tantalizing potential clues that turn out to be nothing a "Mark Evans"? Or maybe name something from JKR's site that she teases us with an "Evans?"
Ah, well. Evanesco.....
Prefect Marcus - Jul 10, 2004 7:58 am (#339 of 361)
Actually, Chemyst, I think we all have too much time on our hands. :-)
Catherine - Jul 10, 2004 8:42 am (#340 of 361)
My husband would agree that anyone who has posted on a Harry Potter website has too much time on her hands, never mind anyone who simply lurks and reads posts.
Loopy Lupin - Jul 10, 2004 9:25 am (#341 of 361)
That said, I am still surprised that I find myself posting on this thread, since I have nothing new to add about the nobody character Mark Evans. -- Catherine Allen
Can I be the first to suggest there is a bundle to be made with "Mark Evans Lives" t-shirts?
Should we name those tantalizing potential clues that turn out to be nothing a "Mark Evans"? Or maybe name something from JKR's site that she teases us with an "Evans?" --- Catherine Allen
I think we are almost already there. On the Harry's Ship Uniting the Houses thread, I stated I was ready to ride along with that theory even if it is headed to "Mark Evansville." I would go further to bet that if we started using "Evans" and "red herring" interchangeably, it would need little explaining. (At least until we learn more about Harry's mum or the "real" Evans family.)
haymoni - Jul 10, 2004 2:19 pm (#342 of 361)
Catherine - we must be married to the same man.
How about "I believe in Mark Evans" or "I am Mark Evans and I Matter!" or "Mark Evans Was Here".
Catherine - Jul 10, 2004 2:38 pm (#343 of 361)
Haymoni--that cracked me up! I hope our "husband" is not bigamous! Maybe Loopy can help us out if that is the case!
As far as Mark Evans was here, may I suggest JKR "Evanescoed" Mark Evans
Or, for really brusque fans, "Evans Evanescoed!" Perhaps, simply just "Evanescoed!"
Matilda the Pygmy Puff - Jul 10, 2004 4:16 pm (#344 of 361)
I think that perhaps Dumbledore isn't lying, but he really doesn't know of Mark's existance. Perhaps Petunia and Lily's mother had an illegitamate son(marks father) with a muggle, but had to give him up for adoption to a muggle family, but he kept the name of Evans. That sounds far-fetched, but that would explain Dumbledore's ignorance
Prefect Marcus - Jul 10, 2004 4:26 pm (#345 of 361)
I don't think Mark Evans and Red Herring are synominous (sp?). A Red Herring is laid deliberately. Mark Evans was not deliberate.
Apparently you did not get the word. JK Rowling has stated on her offical website that Mark Evans is nobody at all, just a throw-away name for a one-time character.
Peregrine - Jul 10, 2004 9:36 pm (#346 of 361)
I am Mark Evans and I Matter! -- I would love to put that on a shirt, although I don't know how I would explain it to my co-workers (they're confused enough by my "Padfoot" and "Remus" shirts).
But while we're on the subject, how about Mark Evans has left the building?
Ozymandias - Jul 10, 2004 9:56 pm (#347 of 361)
The problem was, he was never in the building to begin with. But that doesn't make a very good t-shirt.
Catherine - Jul 11, 2004 4:25 am (#348 of 361)
Maybe if we're talking a throwaway detail, or something insignificant that has been blown out of proportion, that can be a "Mark Evans."
An example: "I think we're making too much of that; looks like an 'Evans' to me."
Or, it can have broader implications, such as, "Don't mind me; I'm nobody. Just call me Mark Evans."
tracie1976 - Jul 11, 2004 6:15 am (#349 of 361)
ROFL you guys are riots trying to make up t-shirt slogans.
My favortie so far is Catherine's "Don't mind me; I'm nobody. Just call me Mark Evans."
Catherine - Jul 11, 2004 5:34 pm (#350 of 361)
Peregrine, I really like your Mark Evans has left the building!
Maybe we could make it more like the "Elvis has left the building" if we just say, "Evans has left the building..."!
Oh, well, what do I know? I'm nobody; I'm Mark Evans.
Loopy Lupin - Jul 12, 2004 4:51 am (#351 of 361)
I'm Mark Evans and I am SOMEBODY!
ex-FAHgeek - Jul 12, 2004 4:57 am (#352 of 361)
---quote--- "I'm Mark Evans and I am SOMEBODY!" ---end quote---
While I'm sure similar stories have been written already (if not relating to Mark Evans), that line gave me the idea for a hilarious fanfic in which Mark Evans tracks JKR down in Bolivia to take his revenge on her for making him a "nobody" instead of giving him the respect he deserves...
Catherine - Jul 12, 2004 5:06 am (#353 of 361)
I'm Mark Evans and I am SOMEBODY! --Loopy Lupin
Sounds like poor Mark has already had to enter therapy to deal with his esteem issues!
Maybe the best "revenge" on JKR for giving us an "Evans" is to keep posting about him, instead of tracking her to Bolivia.
Maybe we should have Mark sightings. "I think I saw Mark Evans today! He was standing against the wall, speaking to no one, but I think that was him! Doesn't have many friends, poor chap, because he's a nobody."
Or, to use Loopy's quote, "Hey, did you see Mark Evans? He was standing in front of Buckingham Palace screaming, ""I'm Mark Evans and I am SOMEBODY!"
Loopy Lupin - Jul 12, 2004 5:51 am (#354 of 361)
Yes, it would seem that Mark is headed for years of therapy. Could you imagine millions of people being told that you are a nobody? Hang in there Mark, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it, people like you.
Catherine - Jul 12, 2004 7:04 am (#355 of 361)
You don't happen to have a Stuart Smalley avatar, do you?
Denise P. - Jul 12, 2004 7:10 am (#356 of 361)
Guys, you are straying too far for this thread. There is St Mungo's over on the FanFiction Forum where you can take the Mark Evans silliness. There is a link to the FFF up near the top of the thread listings.
Loopy Lupin - Jul 12, 2004 8:24 am (#357 of 361)
Guys, you are straying too far for this thread. -- Denise P.
Sorry Denise. But, at this point, there's not a lot left to say about poor Mark, our rampant speculation being cut off at the knees. He's nobody after all.
Imoen - Jul 12, 2004 9:32 am (#358 of 361)
I see that some body gets inform on JKR's site !! By the way, Loopy Lupin, do you have found all the hidden stuffs hide on her site because I don't. Actually, I don't know if I did or not....... Can you help me ? i've found the draw of Harry, Ron Hermione , Neville and Dean ; i've also found the extract of a book written with the old typewriter. But I think there are other things hidden , Am I right ???
Loopy Lupin - Jul 12, 2004 9:39 am (#359 of 361)
I'm sure that there are all kinds of things hidden on her site Imoen, but to be perfectly honest, I haven't found any of them myself. If you go to the JKR website thread, I would assume that all the puzzles our forumers have solved will be explained for you there.
Peregrine - Jul 12, 2004 12:49 pm (#360 of 361)
Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but I think I figured out why I wanted Mark Evans to be someone so badly. I realized it posting on the Lupin thread that I was hoping for someone else to become close to Harry (a cousin say) who could be sacrificed later on in book six or seven thereby leaving the characters who I already love and who are already close to Harry (i. e. Lupin) able to live. Huh, I never realized how cruel I was before.
Denise P. - Jul 12, 2004 5:43 pm (#361 of 361)
Loopy Lupin said: But, at this point, there's not a lot left to say about poor Mark, our rampant speculation being cut off at the knees. He's nobody after all.
I think this sums up this thread very well. I am closing it to further postings. Since it is a large thread, I would encourage each of you to search through it to see if there is any information contained in here that you think should be saved. Prior to this thread being mulched, it will be put down into the archive area while the editors decide if anything is worth saving.
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