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Problems in PoA

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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:28 pm


Problems in PoA

This topic was opened to archive the above titled thread from the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum (HPLF) as it was created and hosted on World Crossing (WX) until WX ceased operation on 15 April 2011. ~ John
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HPEnthusist - Dec 31, 2006 7:54 am (#0 of 53)
Edited by Kip Carter Jan 28, 2007 9:57 am

Recently when re-reading PoA, I found an a bit of information that seemed misleading. The line is from pg.305, "Three-quarters of the crowd was wearing scarlet rosettes, waving scarlet flags..." JK said in an interview that there were 600 students in Hogwarts, meaning that 450 students were supportin Gryphindor. Then on the same page it says "Behind the Slytherin goal posts, however, two hundred people were wearing green..." So with the infromation in the second line we learn two hundred students were supporting Slytherin. 450 + 200 = 650, not 600!

Just pointing this out.




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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:33 pm


Kip Carter - Dec 31, 2006 9:59 am (#1 of 53)

HPEnthusist, I fell the difference of fifty (50) should not be significant due to a number of reasons, such as "rounding" of numbers, especially with the use of hundreds (x00's); however she also could be entirely correct because she refers to "crowd" and "people" in both of your quotes, not just students. Remember there are professors, staff, and possible guests. That's my two knuts on the subject. Enough said!

Added note at 10:30 am: Lexicon Steve produced an excellent essay, How Many Students Are There At Hogwarts?, originally back on 7 February 2001, which was last updated 31 March 2006. This essay handles the numbers from many different approaches. Enjoy reading it!

And more at 10:32 am: Yes, this has been discussed in a number of threads on the Forum in the past and some possibly still exist in the archives.


Choices - Dec 31, 2006 10:27 am (#2 of 53)

I may be mistaken (it's happened before - LOL) but I thought JKR said there were about a thousand students at Hogwarts. When I read the part about three quarters and then the 200, I figured that 200 must equal one quarter and that three quarters must then equal 600 (3 X 200) for a total of 800 people at the Quidditch match. I admit I am terrible at maths, so correct me if I'm wrong.


Chemyst - Dec 31, 2006 4:20 pm (#3 of 53)

HPE, running the numbers like that also assumes the "crowd" was exclusively students and that all students were in attendance. But we have canon to show that teachers attended the games as well. The books don't indicate one way or the other if locals from Hogsmeade, board members, professional team scouts, parents, or former students ever come back to visit on game day, but if Quidditch is the hugely popular wizarding sport it is purported to be, I think there would be visitors in the stands.

Of course, PA was the year Dementors were patrolling the perimeter, so that may have cut back on crowd size a bit. Still, what is a Dementor to a die-hard fan?


journeymom - Dec 31, 2006 4:37 pm (#4 of 53)

I decided not to bother checking JKR's numbers and dates quite a while ago! She approximates age differences at interviews, she throws around numbers and it doesn't bother me. It never even occured to me to verify if her stated age differences between the Weasley children matches with their canon school grade years. I don't care that Mars wasn't really in the sky in June of whatever year, even though Firenze said it was. I think JKR had no idea that her adult readers would be such sticklers, and I suspect she persists in getting dates and numbers incorrect because she just doesn't care, why start now, and maybe she even does it on purpose sometimes, just to yank our chains.


azi - Jan 1, 2007 11:15 am (#5 of 53)

I agree with journeymum! JKR is very inconsistent with the numbers. While she said there were 1000 students at Hogwarts in one interview, in a later interview she said there were about 3000 witches and wizards in Britain (not including hags, goblins etc.)! That would make for a very skewed population demographic if one third of the population were between 11 and 18! Of course, she may have only included qualified wizards in that figure, but I think that's still a very low figure of adults if you take into account that wizards are supposed to have longer life spans than muggles! Then you have the 100,000 seat Quidditch World Cup stadium...surely most of the Wizarding World would have been able to attend if British figures are proportionate to everywhere else?

Anyway, I digress. I think that JKR just wrote the figures as a vague estimate and to show more people support Gryffindor than Slytherin during the match. There would have been Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs out there too, I think.




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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:34 pm


HPEnthusist - Jan 1, 2007 11:37 am (#6 of 53)

Well, maybe the if their were fifty or so visitors then I guess it could work out. But still there is the other matter which I find very strange. What guests would be supporting Slytherin, I mean it's the least popular.


Choices - Jan 1, 2007 5:59 pm (#7 of 53)

Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs are included in the three-forths figure - Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff and Gryffindor. The 200 (or one-forth) were the Slytherins. If 200 equal one-forth, then three-forths have to equal 600 - total 800.


Finn BV - Jan 1, 2007 6:56 pm (#8 of 53)

There may be a lot more faculty included in that number than we know about, or maybe a tour group is going around to see if Hogwarts is the right school for their son or daughter.

Or the Death Eaters stopped by to support their old house.


Lina - Jan 4, 2007 1:55 am (#9 of 53)

If she really thought those numbers were so important, she would have written "182 people were wearing Slytherin colors." and "71,67 percent of the crowd was supporting Griffindor." Would you enjoy such a book? I know I wouldn't because exactly such exact figures have made me not like Geography. When speaking about crowd, when do we use exact numbers? It is always some sort of approximation.


Catherine - Jan 4, 2007 4:30 pm (#10 of 53)

We know that JKR is not wonderful with maths, as she freely admits.

I'm willing to let her "guessitimate" and use literary license to let her vision come through, even if, upon closer reflection, she didn't get the numbers of students exactly correct.

I can speak for a "Non Math" person in general, and say that upon occasion, my number guesses, especially "off the top of my head," would not add up.

I'm just not a numbers person. Neither is JKR, from what I understand.

This drives my CPA mum and my scientist hubby off the wall, I imagine, but for me, I'm happy.




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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:36 pm


colbow - Jan 5, 2007 8:23 am (#11 of 53)

Catherine, I am not a numbers person either, I am geared towards reading. With all the things JKR has to keep track of, it wonder she can do it all.

I just accepted the fact that there are LOTS of students at Hogwarts and there are more dorm rooms for other kids in Harry's house. LOL

P.S Drives my hubby crazy that I have a hard time with the checkbook, numbers and I just don't get along.


Solitaire - Jan 6, 2007 7:32 pm (#12 of 53)

HPEnthusist: What guests would be supporting Slytherin, I mean it's the least popular.

Perhaps any house team who could benefit from a Gryffindor loss would support Slytherin. Also, I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that Slytherin parents and former Slytherin alunni could be in attendance. When I was away at school, parents often attended the weekend football games.

Solitaire


zelmia - Jan 6, 2007 7:49 pm (#13 of 53)

What guests would be supporting Slytherin, I mean it's the least popular. - HPEnthusist

Is it? According to whom?

Other Houses (and their guests) were only supporting Gryffindor because Slytherin had won the Quidditch Cup for several years in a row and they wanted to see them defeated.

I have to confess that I have a very hard time understanding why people take the numbers in this series so literally.


Madam Pince - Jan 9, 2007 9:30 pm (#14 of 53)

I confess that, too, Zelmia! All the talk about what are the proper ages of the Weasley brothers, because the dates they were in school don't match or whatever, and how many students are in each house, and all that stuff just makes my head hurt. I suppose it may be important somehow -- say, for example, trying to figure out an age-timeline to try to figure out who R.A.B. is or whatever -- but I think that JKR is just somewhat "numbers-challenged" and just goes vague at times in those situations, just as I and (presumably) other "numbers-challenged" folks do.

I think if it were really important to the storyline, JKR would've made the numbers work out perfectly.


TheSaint - Jan 11, 2007 5:52 am (#15 of 53)

I also had a question.

When everyone is in the shrieking shack and Snape confronts them, he makes the following statement:

'SILENCE! I WILL NOT BE SPOKEN TO LIKE THAT!' Snape shreiked, looking madder than ever. 'Like father, like son, Potter!' I have just saved your neck, you should be thanking me on bended knee! You would have been well served if he'd killed you! You'd have died like your father, too arrogant to believe you might be mistaken in Black - now get out of the way, or I will make you...'

Now this suggests to me that Snape approached the Potter's with some type of warning about Sirius betraying them. The thing I find curious is Snape not knowing that Sirius was not the betrayer. I say this based on a statement made by Sirius a few pages later.

'You haven't been hiding from me for twelve years,' said Black. 'You've been hiding from Voldemort's supporters. I heard things in Azkaban, Peter ... they all think you're dead, or you'd have to answer to them ... I've heard them screaming all sorts of things in thier sleep. Sounds like they think the double-crosser double-crossed them. Voldemort went to the Potters' on your information ... and voldemort met his downfall there. And not all Voldemort's supporters ended up in Azkaban, did they? There are still plenty out here, biding thier time, pretending they have seen the error of thier ways ... If they ever got wind that you were still alive, Peter -'

So, if Snape is one of Voldemort's supporters, why doesn't he know this? Why is he making this statement this many years later?




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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:37 pm


haymoni - Jan 11, 2007 6:07 am (#16 of 53)

It is possible that Snape was not as valuable to Voldy back then as he is now. He may not have been privy to all that was going on back then.

Voldy's disappearance and the incident between Sirius & Peter happened very close together.

Perhaps he believed, as Dumbledore and everyone else seems to believe, that Sirius was truly the traitor.


Mattew Bates - Jan 11, 2007 11:17 am (#17 of 53)

Perhaps Voldemort never referred to Wormtail by name. Now, for the Death Eaters in Azkaban to believe the traitor dead while Black is locked up with them, they must have to know Black wasn't the traitor - but maybe they only figured that out after Black arrived, either because they believed his story, or he didn't fit something they knew about the traitor. It is a suspicious point, but JKR has left herself some wiggle room.


TheSaint - Jan 11, 2007 12:57 pm (#18 of 53)

I had thought maybe the DE were not privy to the info, but Sirius' statement includes those who were not in Azkaban knowing who was the double-crosser. It is 14 years past the incident now. Snape, being friends with Malfoy, should probably know Peter was the traitor by now, surely they have discussed that night and thier positions since then. So why make this statement?


Soul Search - Jan 11, 2007 3:25 pm (#19 of 53)

Only thing I can think of is the the death eaters thought both were traitors, of one sort or another. Perhaps Snape encouraged the idea that Black was a traitor.

After the action in PoA, Snape still refused to believe that Peter was the traitor or, more likely, that Black wasn't "a" traitor. He would have had to be wearing blinders if Malfoy or others talked at all. Dumbledore believed Black after the fact, but must have thought Black was the traitor after Godric's Hollow.


haymoni - Jan 11, 2007 5:59 pm (#20 of 53)

Didn't Sirius say that the Death Eaters in Azkaban thought it was Peter's fault that Voldy met his demise?

...I've heard them screaming all sorts of things in their sleep. Sounds like they think the double-crosser double-crossed them. Voldemort went to the Potters' on your information...and Voldemort met his downfall there...

At least some of the Death Eaters knew it was Peter.

I'm sticking with Snape not being "Inner Circle" at that time.




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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:37 pm


TheSaint - Jan 12, 2007 3:22 am (#21 of 53)

I'm sticking with Snape not being "Inner Circle" at that time.

But that is my point, it is 12 years later! Surely he knows by now??? He has been hanging out with Lucius, definately part of the inner circle. You think he would have told DD if he did though. Something very strange about this.


Chemyst - Jan 12, 2007 5:42 am (#22 of 53)

...the Death Eaters in Azkaban thought it was Peter's fault that Voldy met his demise — Haymoni

I think so. And the DEs outside of Azkaban too.
It gets a little screwy, but the way I'm interpreting this (for now) is that Lucius et al believed Peter lured Voldemort to his death. Snape knew Sirius & James were the "cool" ones of the marauders and allowed Peter to hang out with them as their lackey/gofer. I think that up until the end of PA, Snape believed Black was the traitor and was in the process of framing Peter to take the fall. Snape wouldn't believe Peter was the double-crosser because he'd rather hate Sirius for using Peter as a scapegoat and then killing him.

And that just like James, Snape didn't give Peter enough credit for being able to do it on his own either. In other words, Snape (with reason) accused James of being too arrogant to see the truth while making the same mistake of underestimating Peter himself. I do hope DH clears this up some more.


haymoni - Jan 12, 2007 9:07 am (#23 of 53)

I don't think Snape would know in Book 3. Voldy isn't back yet, Lucius isn't exactly showing off his tatoo...

I really don't think Snape became Inner Circle until he went back to Voldy after the hospital scene in Book 4. I'm guessing he got blasted with a few "Crucio"s, but when he could actually deliver something useful to Voldy, he became important.


me and my shadow 813 - Jan 12, 2007 2:51 pm (#24 of 53)

haymoni, I agree. No DE inner circle at all until the end of GoF.

Could it possibly have to do with Peter telling certain DE's about the location of the Potters and not others? Like Lucius or Bella knew Peter was the Secret Keeper but couldn't tell Severus? Just throwing it out there...


Mrs. Sirius - Jan 12, 2007 10:49 pm (#25 of 53)

On the other hand, it was Snape who told Voldemort about the prophesy. This information was of great value in LV's estimation. LV simple doesn't reciprocate, -you gave me great info I give keep you informed- type. Also each Death Eater seems to consider him/herself invaluable to LV and in his confidence. He must be very charismatic to make everyone feel so "valued".

In GOF I think it is tha Sirius says that Voldemort doesn't give the DE much information and that the DE don't necessarily who the others are.




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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:38 pm


Puck - Jan 20, 2007 5:14 pm (#26 of 53)

Plus, Sirius could have stretched the truth a bit. Perhaps only Bella yelled about Peter. If trying to scare Pettigrew, he'd say they all were. Plus, Peter doesn't know who knows about him and who doesn't. I doubt he'd take chances.

So, perhaps Snape and the DE didn't know about Peter. It's just that Sirius and Peter don't know they don't know. You know?


Elanor - Jan 21, 2007 6:10 am (#27 of 53)

I have a question about a detail in PoA: in my edition of the book (UK, Adult edition, paperback, 2000), in chapter 12, the password "Oddsbodikins" is mentioned but, on the Lexicon, it is mentioned as being "Oddsbodkins". The difference is not listed however in the "Difference between the UK and US editions" page of the Lexicon.

Would anyone know if it is a mistake in the edition I have or if it is also written "Oddsbodikins" in other British editions of the book? Just being curious!


azi - Jan 21, 2007 6:29 am (#28 of 53)

My UK,Children's paperback, 1999 (?...that's what it says anyway) version has Oddsbodikins, with the I.


Mrs. Sirius - Jan 21, 2007 7:06 am (#29 of 53)

Perhaps you questions should go in to "Corrections to the Lexicon" thread.


Elanor - Jan 21, 2007 9:00 am (#30 of 53)

That's a good idea Mrs Sirius! I just wanted to be sure it was really a difference between the UK and US editions of the book and not a misprint or mistake in my edition.


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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:43 pm


Choices - Jan 21, 2007 10:41 am (#31 of 53)

I have Scholastic edition (paperback) American and mine has the "i" in it also.


Laura W - Jan 21, 2007 12:08 pm (#32 of 53)

Raincoast (Cdn) edition, hardcover: it's written as "Oddsbodikins."

Laura


Elanor - Jan 22, 2007 11:41 am (#33 of 53)

Thanks everybody! It may well be a typo in the Lexicon then! I'll post it there soon.


Vulture - Jan 29, 2007 10:05 am (#34 of 53)

When everyone is in the shrieking shack and Snape confronts them, he makes the following statement:

'SILENCE! I WILL NOT BE SPOKEN TO LIKE THAT!' Snape shreiked, looking madder than ever. 'Like father, like son, Potter!' I have just saved your neck, you should be thanking me on bended knee! You would have been well served if he'd killed you! You'd have died like your father, too arrogant to believe you might be mistaken in Black - now get out of the way, or I will make you...'

Now this suggests to me that Snape approached the Potter's with some type of warning about Sirius betraying them. The thing I find curious is Snape not knowing that Sirius was not the betrayer. I say this based on a statement made by Sirius a few pages later.

'You haven't been hiding from me for twelve years,' said Black. 'You've been hiding from Voldemort's supporters. I heard things in Azkaban, Peter ... they all think you're dead, or you'd have to answer to them ... I've heard them screaming all sorts of things in thier sleep. Sounds like they think the double-crosser double-crossed them. Voldemort went to the Potters' on your information ... and voldemort met his downfall there. And not all Voldemort's supporters ended up in Azkaban, did they? There are still plenty out here, biding thier time, pretending they have seen the error of thier ways ... If they ever got wind that you were still alive, Peter -'

So, if Snape is one of Voldemort's supporters, why doesn't he know this? Why is he making this statement this many years later? (TheSaint - Jan 11, 2007 5:52 am (#15))

Hi, Folks: Sorry, I know ye all discussed this a while back, but I thought I'd add:

(a) We know for a fact that Voldemort did not trust Snape up to and including Book 1 _ Snape tells Bellatrix so in Book 6, and I see no reason to doubt him on this point. If Voldemort felt like this in Book 1, I don't see any reason to think that there was any change before Voldemort rose again.

(b) Sirius may not have been including Snape as one of "Voldemort's old supporters". Yes, I can hear the howls of incredulity _ bear with me !! Yes, Sirius dislikes Snape as much as Snape dislikes him, and yes, he is probably ready to believe the worst of Snape, given a chance. But despite this, I've noticed that Sirius does have the ability to calm down and see a different view when absolutely necessary (perhaps not otherwise !!). For example, in Book 4, "there's still the fact that Dumbledore trusts Snape" makes him pause for thought. In Book 5, they snarl at each other, yes _ but Sirius does, in the final analysis, obey Dumbledore and work with the guy.

So, in this case, Sirius may put Snape in a different category simply because Dumbledore employed him. Or he may know from Azkaban that Bellatrix & Co. don't trust Snape.


TheSaint - Jan 29, 2007 1:09 pm (#35 of 53)

The thought was...

It has been 12 years since this event occurred. From the books we have the impression that Snape is close to Lucius. You would have thought they would have discussed 'the good old days' during this time and Snape would be a little better informed as to what was had happened.

'There are still plenty out here, biding thier time, pretending they have seen the error of thier ways ... If they ever got wind that you were still alive, Peter -'

Sounds like Lucius.


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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:51 pm


haymoni - Jan 29, 2007 2:04 pm (#36 of 53)

I don't think Lucius would risk discussing too much with Snape. He is, after all, claiming to have been under the Imperius Curse. I just don't see him socializing with the likes of Severus Snape, a mere teacher.

I'm guessing the Death Eaters were just as confused as the Order as to whom they could trust.


Mrs. Sirius - Jan 31, 2007 8:44 am (#37 of 53)

Wait, doesn't Sirius say something to the effect of Snape being Lucius' lap dog? Or is that movie contamination?

He certainly does indicate that Snape is subservient to Malfoy in OoTP.

Draco too, indicates in GoF and OoTP that Snape is close with his father.


T Vrana - Jan 31, 2007 9:35 am (#38 of 53)

I just don't see him socializing with the likes of Severus Snape, a mere teacher.

Mere teacher, but fellow DE, head of Slytherin house, close to DD, and very accomplished in Dark Arts.

Now hanging out with Amyscus and Alecto might be a bit of a chore...


mona amon - Feb 3, 2007 8:50 am (#39 of 53)

LOL,T Vrana!

About Lucius knowing about Peter,actually he thought Black was the betrayer- "Malfoy knows"he said abruptly."remember what he said to me in potions?"if it was me,I'd hunt him down myself...I'd want revenge."'and,"malfoy's dad must have told him"..."he was right in Voldemort's inner circle-"POA,chapter 11.

So it seems that Lucius and Snape thought the Potters were betrayed by Black,while the Azkaban set knew it was Peter.Strange.Did JKR make a mistake?

The only explanation I can think of is that LV kept Peter and his information very secret,and only one or two others knew about him.This DE or DE's got captured and thrown into Azkaban immediately after the fall of LV,before they had time to spread the word around.So,while the Azkaban set knew about Peter,the ones outside did not.

Does this add up?


T Vrana - Feb 3, 2007 9:24 am (#40 of 53)

LV likely kept information limited to those who needed to know for any particular mission. That way if a DE was captured, he or she could only give information on what they knew, not the whole organization. Also, he must have suspected that there was a spy amongst his group once the Potter's went into hiding. So keeping information limited to a few, made it less likely to be leaked.



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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:51 pm


Lina - Feb 3, 2007 1:24 pm (#41 of 53)

Would it be possible that it was Sirius who told the Azkaban set that it was Peter who betrayed the Potters? The Azkaban set thought at first that the Longbottoms knew what happened to LV.


journeymom - Feb 3, 2007 6:59 pm (#42 of 53)

Sirius thought it was Lupin until he saw the picture of the Weasleys in Egypt from Fudge's newpaper. I wonder if Sirius simply said that to scare Peter.


Chemyst - Feb 3, 2007 9:19 pm (#43 of 53)

Thanks for jogging my memory, journeymom.
I checked the Lexicon timeline and it said the photo appeared in the Daily Prophet around July 24th. Sirius must have seen the paper within a day, and they figure he was heard moaning in his sleep for a couple nights, then escaped, swam the ocean, and made it to Little Whinging by the end of Aunt Marge's week-long visit. (Can a wizard apparate from mid-ocean? Or is a step on a solid surface required?)

I guess we don't know exactly how much Sirius told the DEs or how much they could piece together from his nighttime moaning, but I certainly got the impression that Sirius was the first person to figure out that Peter was still alive.
...maybe he was just trying to scare Peter.


Mrs Brisbee - Feb 4, 2007 5:41 am (#44 of 53)

Sirius thought it was Lupin until he saw the picture of the Weasleys in Egypt from Fudge's newpaper. I wonder if Sirius simply said that to scare Peter.

I think Sirius thought it was Lupin up til the point Peter betrayed the Potters. Sirius went after Peter at that point, not Lupin. It's just that he thought Pettigrew dead all those years until he saw the Egypt photo.

I like Lina's idea that the Azkaban crew learned the identity of the real betrayer from Sirius.


Lina - Feb 4, 2007 6:19 am (#45 of 53)

I agree that my memory is not one of the best, but it seems to me that it was Sirius who suggested Pettigrew for a secret keeper because nobody would suspect him. Thus, only Sirius, beside the Potters, knew that Peter was the secret keeper (until the moment that Peter told the secret to LV). The lack of trust that was shown to Lupin was in the form that nobody told him about the change of the idea about the secret keeper. So, Sirius didn't think for a moment that Lupin betrayed the Potters in a way that he told the secret to Voldemort. He might have thought that Lupin was betraying the Potters before they went into hiding. Once, that LV appeared at the Godric's Hollow, Sirius knew that Peter was a betrayer and ran after him right away and laughed like mad when Peter killed big number of Muggles and made it seem like Sirius was the killer.

When Sirius saw the picture in the news paper, it only helped him know where Peter is hiding.


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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:52 pm


Choices - Feb 4, 2007 9:09 am (#46 of 53)

I got the impression that Sirius and other prisoners at Azkaban were kept pretty much isolated from each other. Also, why would Sirius give vital information to a bunch of DE's? Sirius is too smart to reveal such information to the enemy.


Lina - Feb 4, 2007 11:02 am (#47 of 53)

It isn't impossible that the DE prisoners started with hating Sirius because they thought that it was him who caused the downfall of the Dark Lord by telling him the secret. Then he wanted to direct their hatred towards the man that he hated himself and use the enemy to do his personal revenge. I just don't see how would that information be so important to be hidden from the enemy.

And Fudge told that someone (I'm not sure it is mentioned who) heard Sirius yelling "He's in Hogwarts!" in sleep, so it was obviously possible to hear what other people are saying.


Chemyst - Feb 4, 2007 11:06 am (#48 of 53)

When Sirius saw the picture in the news paper, it only helped him know where Peter is hiding. - Lina

You are right; I just went back and re-read parts of PA19. I'd been thinking that Sirius believed Peter was dead until he saw the photo, but Sirius believed Peter had escaped into the sewer all along. The photo only helped him know where Peter was.


Anna L. Black - Feb 5, 2007 10:28 am (#49 of 53)

And Fudge told that someone (I'm not sure it is mentioned who) heard Sirius yelling "He's in Hogwarts!" - Lina

I think it was(were?) the dementors who heard him.

I always thought it strange that Snape didn't know it was Peter, while other DEs knew about it. But actually, what does Sirius say?
Sounds like they think the double-crosser double-crossed them.
Well, that doesn't mean they knew who the double-crosser actually was. And Peter was hiding, because if he didn't - the truth would easily come out. As soon as Voldemort vanished, Peter had no chance of staying free and/or alive either way...


frogface - Feb 16, 2007 10:55 am (#50 of 53)

I think its possible that Snape didn't know about Peter but that Peter knew about Snape. He could have been used to Voldemort to see if he could find out what side Snape was really on.


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Post  John Bumbledore on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:54 pm


Anna L. Black - Jun 29, 2007 1:25 pm (#51 of 53)

I might be nit-picking, but I have a slight problem with the following facts:

When Harry receives the Marauder's Map, he enters the passage that leads to Honeydukes: "He slid a considerable way down what felt like a stone slide, then landed on cold, damp earth."

But how does he get out of that side of the passage on his way back? Or is there a Slide-Climbing Charm we haven't heard about?


zelmia - Jun 29, 2007 2:33 pm (#52 of 53)

I found that a bit inconsistent too at first, Anna. But the first time, the text says that he can't remember going back through the passage and into the castle because he had just overheard the conversation about Sirius. He isn't paying attention.
The second time it describes him hurrying to climb back up the chute, his hands slipping down the sides.


sstabeler - Jul 18, 2007 11:13 am (#53 of 53)
Edited by Catherine Jul 18, 2007 1:07 pm

Actually, it is relatively easy to figure out if you know about what causes the frictional force. Basically, there is a greater frictional force from Harry's shoes than the frictional force from Harrys' jumper/cloak.Ttherefore, Harry cam climb the slope, AND slide down the slope. Put it another way, if someone was just in their socks, they wouldn't be able to. but if someone were to try to be sneaky and slip in in their socks, or without anything on their feet, they would slide down.

I edited this post to capitalize the first letter of sentences.—Catherine


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