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Filius Flitwick

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Post  Lady Arabella on Mon May 23, 2016 5:46 pm

The following is an archive of material originally posted on the Harry Potter Lexicon Forum, hosted by World Crossing, which ceased operations on April 15, 2011
Lady Arabella
Lady Arabella

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Filius Flitwick Empty Re: Filius Flitwick

Post  Lady Arabella on Mon May 23, 2016 5:47 pm

Filius Flitwick
Griffin - Sep 27, 2003 3:27 pm Reply

Edited by Kip Carter Nov 17, 2005 2:45 am

I changed the title on this thread from "What about tiny professor Flitwick?" to "Filius Flitwick" - Kip

What about tiny professor Flitwick?

The poor guy seems to be overlooked by everyone, not surprising since he would barely come up to your navel. However, he appears to be a very powerful wizard. He was once a champion dueller and now an excellent, if not somewhat comical teacher.

My views on defense against the dark arts lessons are that they are not purely a branch of magic in their own right. They seem to be a way of using magic from other disciplines towards that end. Charms appear (since Harry uses them regularly in his battles) to form a good portion of the defensive arsenal of a wizard.

To that end:

What does Flitwick have to offer Harry that we have not yet seen?

Will Flitwick coach Harry in dueling?

Will Harry take advanced Charms?

What do we know about Flitwick?

Will Flitwick play a larger part in the last two books?

Let’s hear your ideas, questions and suggestions. He must have more to offer.


Wendelin the Weird - Sep 27, 2003 5:55 pm (#1 of 267)

Another question: Is he a dwarf? In Book 3, Harry sees two dwarves in Diagon Alley after getting off the Knight Bus, so it appears dwarves do exist in the HP universe.

On that note, it seems to me that Dumbledore has a great deal of people with some type of mixed blood or who are outcasts surrounding him (and I won’t make any allusions to the disciples here, but it is odd coincidence). Now, what we know is that it appears from the destruction of the statue in the MoM that the mistreatment of other races/types of whatever... people per say is what is the root of the war that is probably upcoming. I mean, it says in Book 5 that many are tired of the way the Wizards have been treating them as second-class citizens, and its obvious that Dumbledore is respected because he is not like that. So he is rallying the other groups behind him, just as Voldemort is trying to rally them also.

Anyway, my point is... was Flitwick sent off to contact the dwarves if they are like another separate group, similar to Hagrid's mission? Think about it... Dobby rallies house elves, Flitwick the dwarves, Hagrid tries for the Giants, Dumbledore can speak mermish (which is useful when he lulling about as the Giant Squid), Ronan the centaurs etc... Just curious if anyone else had made that connection.


Madame Librarian - Sep 27, 2003 6:12 pm (#2 of 267)
Edited Sep 27, 2003 7:15 pm

Wendelin, I can't quite remember where or when it was discussed, but I touched on the issue of the magical beings either joining forces with the WW to battle the DEs or joining the DEs, or a combination of both. The point being that as VWII heats up, there will be factions and intrigues and all sort of alliances made and unmade as JKR weaves her usual complex plot. So, basically I like the idea of DD sending envoys to sound out the various groups. The two that worry me the most, however, are the Centaurs and those Giants, Grawp notwithstanding. Oh, and the Goblins might be the financiers of this war, ostensibly staying neutral.

But I digress...this maybe belongs on the Magical Beings threads, should anyone want to speculate further.

Ciao. Barb


Wendelin the Weird - Sep 27, 2003 6:24 pm (#3 of 267)

Not at all digressing, and I will check that out. Just wondering if he could be another example of someone who might be helping to alliance with other groups in this matter. (Another would be Fleur DeLaCouer with her veela blood also.)

As for Flitwicks past, we really know very little at all, except that he was a great dueler in his day. Do we know how long he has been at Hogwarts? Maybe that will tell us something about him as well...


zixyer - Sep 27, 2003 6:38 pm (#4 of 267)

Well, he was in Snape's memory, so at least 20-some years.


Rich - Sep 27, 2003 6:40 pm (#5 of 267)

Griffin, you asked a lot of questions which got me thinking.

I believe it is very possible that Flitwick could teach Harry how to duel as he was a very talented one by the sounds of it. I really hope that Flitwick is expanded (if that makes sense), what I mean to say is I hope we learn more about him.

If, as has been mentioned, he is dwarf - or part-dwarf? - then it would open up a whole new world in the next two books. For instance where to they reside? Why aren't they a very public race? etc.

Or he could just be a midget wizard. It's, possible isn't it Razz


S.E. Jones - Sep 27, 2003 11:59 pm (#6 of 267)

And just how does he know so much about "Entrancing Enchantments...the sly old dog".....

BTW, there were also dwarves in CoS, they carried Valentines while dressed as cupids. I think he's either part-dwarf or just vertically challenged (that's what my older brothers call me)....


zelmia - Sep 28, 2003 7:48 am (#7 of 267)

We have Little People in real life. Why couldn't Flitwick just be one? It obviously doesn't take away his ability or respect.


Grant the Great - Sep 28, 2003 3:25 pm (#8 of 267)

I am pretty sure Harry will take Advanced Charms. He had to become an Auror, didn't he? Anyway, I'd feel shortchanged if Harry stopped taking Charms. There are just some teachers which won't disappear. As for training him in dueling, has anyone wondered if Gilderoy was trying to butter up Flitwick by complimenting his dueling abilities and Entrancing Enchantments? I know it's not very like JKR to just put in such things, but heck, she has to have some pointless humor, right? Anyway, that seems like old Lockhart to butter up anyone who might buy his book.

Actually, if Harry does get special training outside of Occlumency (if that even continues), I'd wager that it's probably from McGonagall. She has so much hidden potential that it just seems more likely. Sorry, Flitwick-fans!


Leprechaun Jack! - Sep 30, 2003 12:42 pm (#9 of 267)

I had started this on the Old EZ Boards

I think that Prof. Flitwick is part House Elf not Dwarf. He is small, exciteable, has a high squeaky voice, and never drinks anything stronger than cherry soda.


As a dueling champ he must be very quick and powerful...

If you look at this description... looks like a House Elf to me



AlbusRiddle - Sep 30, 2003 1:45 pm (#10 of 267)

I don't think Harry, or Ron, for that matter, would have been surprised to see their first House Elf (Dobby for Harry, Winky for Ron) if they'd already had one as a teacher.


Emily - Sep 30, 2003 2:44 pm (#11 of 267)

I'm just curious, Jack but does it say anywhere that Flitwick doesn't drink anything stronger than soda? Just because he had it that one time doesn't mean he hasn't ever had anything stronger. It's also possible that he's just allergic to alchohal(sp?) or something, isn't it?


popkin - Sep 30, 2003 5:15 pm (#12 of 267) Reply
Edited by Sep 30, 2003 6:17 pm

If Professor Flitwick were only part house-elf, he might not look very much like one at all. Suppose his great grandmother were a house elf, he'd be only 1/8 house elf. That's far enough removed that Ron and Harry might not notice the resemblance.

I always thought Flitwick was a goblin, though. I can't honestly say why. Maybe its just because he looked something like the goblins in the movies.


schoff - Sep 30, 2003 5:29 pm (#13 of 267)

popkin: That's probably because Warwick Davis plays both roles!

I'm surprised no one's brought up the possibility of Flitwick being the one who hugs Vernon in P/SS yet.


popkin - Sep 30, 2003 5:46 pm (#14 of 267)

schoff, I did not know that. Thanks for the info. Now I have to watch the movies again so I can see them with new eyes! Unfortunately, lightning took out the TV last week... Sniff... It took out the modem, too, but I asked my husband to please fix it right away, and he did. What a great guy!


Haggis and Irn Bru - Oct 1, 2003 10:16 am (#15 of 267)

I mentioned it on one of the EZboards but hey I will mention it here again.

a)Flitwick may have had a defect in which he could not produce Growth Hormone. Wizards dont fix things like shortsightedness so they may not fix things that are not life threatening.

B)Flitwick would be way more submissive if he was of Elvish descent unless the Wizard in him totally dominated. This may be the case if he is only part elvish. Hey he could be a very distant relation of Dobby. His ancestor could have been different from the elvish norm.

I to wondered if the man that hugged Dursley was Flitwick because the man is described as tiny, old and Squeaky.


Griffin - Oct 1, 2003 1:33 pm (#16 of 267)

We do not know if Dwarfs in the wizard’s world are a race in their own right or whether they are similar to those in our world. i.e. Prohibited Growth as mentioned by Haggis and Irn Bru.

I do not think that it is very plausible that Prof. Flitwick is a descendant of House Elves. Of cause I have no evidence for this, as there is very little evidence about his past.

One thing that I am certain of is that Harry has a lot more to learn from this character.

One fanciful sort of image that entered my mind was to imagine him fighting. If indeed he is a champion dueller, he conjures up images of Yoda.


Madame Librarian - Oct 1, 2003 1:41 pm (#17 of 267)

If, as was proposed on this thread, that humans and elves can produce halfbreeds (hate that word) like Prof. Flitwick, and since we already know that giants and humans can "marry," do you think that if a giant and an elf got together, their offspring would be...um...normal?

Sorry, stoopid, silly, inane question.

Ciao. Barb


timrew - Oct 1, 2003 3:18 pm (#18 of 267)

Hmmm, an elf and a giant? Wouldn't the offspring be an elifant?

Sorry, Barb! Stoopid, silly, inane answer!.


Madame Librarian - Oct 1, 2003 5:38 pm (#19 of 267)

It's so nice to have fellow Whackos on this Forum, Tim.

And...you are a funny Whacko.

Ciao. Barb


Rich - Oct 1, 2003 6:23 pm (#20 of 267)

...How could an elf and a giant...never mind...

Flitwick's not an elf, why would he need a wand if he was an elf?

We definitely have to learn more about him. Why isn't he in the Order if he is such a skilled wizard? Surely someone who was once a dueling champ would be a great asset.


Leprechaun Jack! - Oct 1, 2003 6:35 pm (#21 of 267)

. . . A cherry syrup and soda with ice and umbrella

“Mmm!” said Prof Flintwick, smacking his lips.

(POA page 202 US)

Now, I know the pitfalls of taking a line or two and making a theory out of it, but just from those two lines and the fact that everyone else is drinking Ale and Liquor, leads me to believe that Prof. Flintwick does not drink the hard stuff.

Add to this that poor Winky is bowled over by a few butterbeers.

“Winky is getting thru six bottles a day now,” Dobby wispered

“Well it's not that strong, that stuff,” Harry said

But Dobby shook his head. " 'Tis strong for a house-elf. sir...

(GOF page 536 US)

Now does that mean that Prof Flitwick is a House-elf ?

No, but what I'm saying is that coupled with the fact that he is very small and easily excitable...

Prof. Flitwick, the Charms teacher, was a tiny little wizard who had to stand on a pile of books to see over his desk. At the start of their first lesson he took the register, and when he reached Harry's name he gave an excited squeak and toppled out of sight.

(P/stone page 99 UK)

... adds up to something, and then the fact that this tiny teacher is a dueling champ makes me think he must have some powerful magic in him.

Of course, I may be wrong but there seems to be too many hints involving him



Rich - Oct 1, 2003 6:39 pm (#22 of 267)

Can a teacher drink while they're on duty? Even if they're allowed to while they're at Hogsmeade? Maybe Flitwick feels a personal obligation not to get smashed while surrounded by pupils.

How would an elf and a human have a kid anyway?

Maybe he just got in the way of a charm or one of his own backfired and he shrank.


Gred-n-Forge - Oct 1, 2003 6:48 pm (#23 of 267)
Edited Oct 1, 2003 8:18 pm

We know that part-giants exist, so it's entirely possible to have someone who is part-elf. Plus, there are a number of other characters throughout the books who are described as having characteristics of other races, so to speak...from Marcus Flint appearing to have a bit of Troll blood, or Millicent Bulstrode resembling a hag.

Leprechaun Jack, I'm with you--I think Flitwick does have some elf blood in him.

(NOTE: edited for content...)


Madame Librarian - Oct 1, 2003 6:50 pm (#24 of 267)

Well, Hagrid's parents were not well matched in temperment nor size, so I suppose an elf and a human might be OK. You know, I'm not sure it makes much sense to dwell on these sorts of things too much. It could give rise to some...er... very strange speculation. This is one of those areas where if JKR says that Hagrd's mom was a giant and his dad was not and it worked out well enough to have a kid, well, that's enough for this Muggle. It's a magical universe, after all.


Rich - Oct 1, 2003 6:51 pm (#25 of 267)

Maybe he does have elf-blood in him but he's not half-elf. I'd like to believe that he is a midget Smile


Leprechaun Jack! - Oct 1, 2003 6:52 pm (#26 of 267)

Can a teacher Drink...?

But they weren't on duty it was a Hogsmead weekend.

In answer to your second question? How would...?

How would a giant and a wizard have a child(Hagrid), or a troll and a wizard(Marcus Flint), or any other combination that has been alluded to in the books for that matter ? Magic of course



Denise P. - Oct 1, 2003 6:58 pm (#27 of 267)

Please keep in mind that there are minors who read this forum, let's not speculate on the mechanics of how Hagrid came into being. I like Jack's idea, It's A Kinda Magic


Rich - Oct 1, 2003 6:59 pm (#28 of 267)

What are you saying it emmaculate conception or something. Wizards have to have sex to produce a child don't they?


Rich - Oct 1, 2003 7:00 pm (#29 of 267)

Sorry if i'm not allowed to say that. But hey, that's life.


S.E. Jones - Oct 1, 2003 7:36 pm (#30 of 267)

Leprechaun Jack: Now, I know the pitfalls of taking a line or two and making a theory out of it, but just from those two lines and the fact that everyone else is drinking Ale and Liquor, leads me to believe that Prof. Flintwick does not drink the hard stuff.

I'm not sure all the other teachers were drinking alcoholic beverages. Wasn't McGonagall drinking a gilly water? Since we don't know what that is we can't really say it's alcoholic. I assumed it was some kind of bottled water, which I think fits very well with her personality for some reason....


Hem Hem - Oct 1, 2003 9:52 pm (#31 of 267)
Edited Oct 1, 2003 10:53 pm

Yeah, if I remember, there were instances of students drinking Gillywater...and if so, that would mean that Flitwick wasn't the only one to not be drinking.

Then again, I don't think it diminishes from the point you were trying to make at all, for McGonagall is probably too proper to drink in the presence of her students, when she can control herself.

Here's the last time gillywater came up in the forum: Zelmia "A few questions that I've never seen addressed that I'd love some answers to" 5/20/03 4:14pm


Wendelin the Weird - Oct 1, 2003 10:03 pm (#32 of 267)
Edited Oct 1, 2003 11:06 pm

  Quote: "Can a teacher drink while they're on duty? Even if they're allowed to while they're at Hogsmeade? Maybe Flitwick feels a personal obligation not to get smashed while surrounded by pupils."

Well, whether or not they are supposed to, they do! Think of Hagrid & McGonagall getting a little tipsy at the Christmas Feast, and Hagrid drinking in his cabin...

And I’m not sure I buy the half-house elf thing, but it is a thought. Its just that knowing how the moviemakers are, they would have made him look much more "Dobby-ish" even at the risk of giving it away that he’s part elf.

I'm still for the dwarf thought, just because it fits that Dumbly would surround himself with half-beings and outcasts like he already is doing. Dobby, Ronan, Flitwick?, Hagrid, Fleur?, and maybe more that Im forgetting to mention... I think this is a hint that these beings may be persuaded to fight on behalf of the Order, but thats just my opinion. *wink* Besides, the whole thing with Valentines Day... doesn’t it seem odd that they would have a dwarf delivering valentines? I mean, if it was just a (sorry, non-pc term) "midget" it would be rather against being politically correct. Whereas a "dwarf" (meaning another type of being) could just be an indication that the Wizarding World in general might exploit them much as they do house elves and some other beings in general.


schoff - Oct 1, 2003 10:10 pm (#33 of 267) Reply
Edited by Oct 1, 2003 11:13 pm

Dwarves only have a small mention in the books--just the CoS Valentine stuff, yet House-elves have been intregrated into the overall plot. I'd lean towards "elf" just because of that. Though, Lockhart did mention Flitwick, when he shoved the dwarves on the students at breakfast....Maybe yet another red herring?

Wendelin: it's < font color=red > Everything else was right! Could you post on the Advance Team thread what you use to make your qoute smaller? Do you just make the size smaller?


Rich - Oct 2, 2003 12:39 am (#34 of 267) Reply
Edited by Oct 2, 2003 1:40 am

We've slowly been introduced to "half-breeds" as the books progress eg. mudbloods, werewolfs, veela. And also other "races" eg. elves, giants.

So would it be fair to say that the next thing to be introduced are dwarves/half-dwarves like Flitwick may be? It would open up a whole new plethora of things to be discussed in the books to come. And might give us an insight into Flitwick's past and also present.


popkin - Oct 2, 2003 12:50 am (#35 of 267)

Besides giving people SECOND CHANCES, Dumbledore seems to also believe in giving societal rejects A CHANCE. Hagrid (half giant), Winky (ousted elf), Dobbie (freed elf), Sirius (convict), Firenze (liberal centaur), and many others have found refuge at Hogwarts when they couldn't any where else. This alone has led me to believe that Professor Flitwick is something of a societal reject in the wizarding world. Whether he's of mixed parentage or simply a happy goblin, he's found a home and holds a respectable position at Hogwarts.


 Wendelin the Weird - Oct 2, 2003 1:49 am (#36 of 267)
Edited Oct 2, 2003 2:51 am

Yeah I agree 100% with that, Popkin! Also, we have yet to really hear much about goblins and what the Goblin wars were all about, why Fudge is rumored to be eating them or whatever, and how they became such excellent bankers. Perhaps he might be part goblin, as someone suggested, although he doesnt seem to have the same temprament as the ones we've seen to date, but that would go with the "societal reject thory" as well.

And the mention of Flitwick by Lockhart around the same time as he was sending the dwarves out with Valentines does seem to click now that I think of it! Especially with the mention of him and his "Enchanting Entrancements". Lockhart was always one to put his foot in his mouth and didnt seem very PC about anything. Good point!

{ooc: and yeah, I just add a > before the quote (no space) and it does that in courier font. I've used html a bunch but its a bit different here in the coding than what Im used to. Like usually its or whatever. Thanks for the help! yay!}

   Quote: .....


S.E. Jones - Oct 2, 2003 6:05 am (#37 of 267)
Edited Oct 2, 2003 7:06 am

Wendelin, try <*font color=red>word....


Rich - Oct 3, 2003 2:51 am (#38 of 267) Reply
Edited by Oct 3, 2003 3:53 am

Are the likes of Mc-G or Sprout societal rejects? Most certainly not, by the sounds of it. Just because DD lets in a few "freaks" doesn't mean the whole faculty are social dotards.

Also, if Flitwick is even part-elf why would he be allowed a wand?


Griffin - Oct 3, 2003 4:26 am (#39 of 267)

Rich13: I don’t think that you should use the word “freaks” when referring to anyone, even if they are imaginary characters. It is a very offensive term.

Dumbledore being a very experienced and intelligent man would undoubtedly ignore any differences from the normal in a person. As he has often demonstrated, he prefers to judge people on their abilities, rather than any preconceived ideas (stereotyping). Therefore the fact that some of his staff are from varying parentage and backgrounds is irrelevant to him.


Rich - Oct 4, 2003 7:27 pm (#40 of 267)

Sorry about that. But you still haven't answered my question.

Why would FLitwick be allowed a wand if he was an elf/part-elf? DD can't overthrow a decree or whatever it is that was probably written hundreds of years ago.


popkin - Oct 4, 2003 8:38 pm (#41 of 267)

If Flitwick were part elf, which I don't think he is, it may not be public knowledge. If that were the case, no one would know that he wasn't supposed to have a wand.


Carina - Oct 4, 2003 9:26 pm (#42 of 267)

I think the wizarding blood overrides any other magical being blood. Hagrid was allowed to have a wand (until he was expelled) and he's part giant.


Ricky Warner - Oct 4, 2003 9:50 pm (#43 of 267)

Yeah, I agree. but sorry, where does it say that it is illegal for part elves to own wands, I think I missed it.


schoff - Oct 4, 2003 9:59 pm (#44 of 267) Reply
Edited by Oct 4, 2003 11:01 pm

GoF, US, ch9, 132
...So that's clause three of the Code of Wand Use broken, for a start. No non-human creature is permitted to carry or use a wand.

We're discussing whether part non-humans are allowed wands right now, Ricky. Carina makes a good point about Hagrid. If Flitwick is part elf, he probably would be allowed a wand, too.


Ricky Warner - Oct 4, 2003 10:04 pm (#45 of 267)

Thank you.


Griffin - Oct 5, 2003 3:28 am (#46 of 267)

Perhaps it is to do with whether you passed out of Hogwarts or not. Hagrid, part giant, was allowed a wand until he was expelled. Flitwick, part ?, was allowed a wand, passed through Hogwarts and retained the privilege. We can presume that if a young wizard was to be expelled from Hogwarts, they would not be allowed to use a wand ever again (unless they can take night classes and redeem themselves some how).

As far as we have seen, only humans and part humans are allowed to study Hogwarts, therefore no pure elf or giant etc. would ever be allowed to use a wand. It comes down to training


popkin - Oct 5, 2003 9:45 am (#47 of 267) Reply
Edited by Oct 5, 2003 10:49 am

I'm not sure Hagrid would have been allowed to use a wand if it had been generally known that he was part giant. But, Fleur did not hide the fact she is part veela. Maybe you're right - having any amount of wizard blood might negate the law. Or, maybe certain creatures, like veelas, are simply more accepted by the wizard community than others and the laws are not applied to them (even though they could be if some reason arose).

It kind of reminds me of the seat belt law around here (requiring all passengers in a car, truck or van to wear one). It's not generally applied until a driver has some other kind of traffic violation. Then, if you're not wearing your seatbelt, you are ticketed and fined for that infraction as well.

I think I'll post this in the wand thread. I'll also post schoff's book quote, and if others want their comments added to the discussion they can add their own posts as well.


Wendelin the Weird - Oct 5, 2003 11:55 pm (#48 of 267)

Hmm.. not sure I understand why a house elf would need to use a wand anyway, seeing as they have powerful magic of their own that they can use without a wand.

I think part-humans/wizards of any blood would be allowed a wand. They aren’t as accepted in society and may be viewed as dangerous but still have the rights of their human/wizard parentage.

As for Flitwick, is there any mention of him being involved with the Order? I mean, it seems that he would be but i dont see him mentioned by name in the book.


Ricky Warner - Oct 6, 2003 5:02 am (#49 of 267)

I thought I remembered if it mentioned, but couldn't help you. My books are being read by someone else, I need them back, I am having withdrawal symptoms.


popkin - Oct 6, 2003 8:33 am (#50 of 267)

That was why I came to the forum, too, Ricky. But I stayed even after I got my OotP back.

Anyway, even if a being can do magic without a wand, they might want a wand for improved focus, or to be able to do certain charms.
Lady Arabella
Lady Arabella

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Filius Flitwick Empty Re: Filius Flitwick

Post  Lady Arabella on Mon May 23, 2016 5:48 pm


Susurro Notities - Oct 6, 2003 6:06 pm (#51 of 267)

I like the idea, previously noted in this thread, of Flitwick being part Goblin. Goblins must be industrious and smart as they run the bank. They are tenacious given their multiple rebellions and refusal to go along with wizards notions about them. Characteristics such as these and a connection to the "money men" would be valuable in VWII.

Flitwick's kind demeanor may come from his human side. After all Hagrid doesn't behave like a giant.


Ricky Warner - Oct 6, 2003 9:36 pm (#52 of 267)

That is a good theory Sussuro. Also, in reply to a previous post, I agree that wands are probably used for particular magical abilities. like certain wands are good for Transfiguration, so they could be for improved concentration.


Wendelin the Weird - Oct 6, 2003 9:59 pm (#53 of 267)

Yeah, Im extremely curious about the Goblin Rebellions and what caused them. I mean, we have some clue as to why the Giant Wars happened (duh, its in their nature), but the Goblins appear to have been mistreated in some perceived manner in order to "rebel". I really wish we knew what it was all about. And yeah, I could see where much like Hagrid, Flitwicks human side would give him his kindly personality.

I just feel like there will be something revealed soon about why the goblin wars happened... After all, Hermione makes a point that the Hogs Head in Hogsmeade Village was the HQ of the Goblin Rebellion, and it seems odd that its also where DD would interview Trelawny. Something fishy about it all... I hope Flitwick will help us learn the answers.


Rich - Oct 7, 2003 12:55 am (#54 of 267)

The Flitcik/goblin theory has a lot more merit than the Flitwick/elf theory.

As for the goblin wars. Do you think it might have had anything to do with being oppressed. We know that wizards treat elves poorly, could they have treated goblins like that many years ago?


fidelio - Oct 7, 2003 5:41 am (#55 of 267)

Goblins are big on acquiring treasure, right? In fact, this seems to be there principal aim. Humans certainly don't despise the acquisition of wealth, either--at least in most cases! Perhaps the Goblin Wars started because human wizards were using magic to plunder the goblins, or to enslave them and use the goblins' wealth-acquiring abilities for their OWN advantage, not the goblins'. There's not a lot to support this in canon, but then, canon doesn't give us much else to go with about the Goblin Wars either.


Ricky Warner - Oct 7, 2003 6:08 am (#56 of 267)

I wonder if JK comes on here and looks at our theories for ideas. They are probably even zanier than her ideas (BTW-JK if you are reading this I didn't mean zanier in any way offensive Smile )


Jumbo - Oct 7, 2003 7:34 am (#57 of 267)

Reasons for Goblins rebellions - - Maybe a Mod could make this the start of A New Thread.

Goblins have a reputation for collecting and hoarding treasure. This leads to mistrust and accusations every time any amount of gold goes missing or trade with Goblins goes bad. Goblins become excluded from the WW and have fewer and fewer rights until they rebel against their persecution, seemly more than once. Until the present day when Goblins are allowed to keep all the gold and treasure on behalf of its owners and set up Gringotts the Wizard bank.

I think that’s as much as we can say from what we know for sure... bring on the theories.



Ricky Warner - Oct 7, 2003 3:52 pm (#58 of 267)

I like your theory, or is it fact (JK world fact)?


Griffin - Oct 8, 2003 8:59 am (#59 of 267)
Edited Oct 8, 2003 10:00 am

I am not a great supporter of wild “What ifs” or theories. However the Flitwick/Goblin theory somehow feels right, it certainly has some merit.

Why is Prof. Flitwick not in the Order of the Phoenix?

Is it possibly due to the fact that he is half Goblin, and he is slightly torn between the two worlds?

I have no doubt that he is loyal to Dumbledore. In the OoP (page 81 – 82 (UK)) Bill is talking about the Goblins indecision about which side they are on.

Is Prof Flitwick a second liaison to the Goblins for Prof. Dumbledore?

Is he remaining neutral (for the moment) in an attempt to show loyalty to the Goblins?

If he is, then he can help persuade them from inside their community.

(Sorry, more questions than answers, food for thought.)


Wendelin the Weird - Oct 8, 2003 4:17 pm (#60 of 267)

Very interesting thoughts they are! I like it! I’ll have to pay attention in other scenes with him in them.

Was he in the Three Broomsticks at the same time as Bagman and the goblins in Book 4? I'm going to go back and check that out just for curiousity's sake.


Rich - Oct 13, 2003 11:23 pm (#61 of 267)

Griffin you asked "Is he remaining neutral (at the moment) in an attempt to show loyalty to the Goblins?

This sounds quite plausable. The Goblins are sitting on the fence, does Flitwick feel obliged to do so? Now that the public is sure of Voldemort's return will they take sides? If so, this would allow a larger role for Flitwick liasing between the Order and the Goblins.


Catherine - Oct 22, 2003 8:51 am (#62 of 267)

I liked Griffin's question about why Flitwick isn't in the Order. My answer would be...how do we know that he isn't?

Harry and the younger Weasleys aren't privy to Order business. Harry only sees McGonagall once at 12 Grimmauld place. Dumbledore pops in and out without Harry being aware that he was there. Hagrid and Charlie are members who are completing missions elsewhere and we never see them at Headquarters as of the end of OotP. There could be many more members that we don't know about. Just because Harry never sees Flitwick or Sprout or Madame Pomfrey doesn't mean that they aren't working for the Order. Nothing in canon explicitly suggests that they are in the Order, but nothing definitely excludes the possibility, either.


Hermionefan(#1) - Nov 22, 2003 11:10 am (#63 of 267)

Yeah everyone, but how could a giant and a human have a kid as well?


Denise P. - Nov 22, 2003 11:14 am (#64 of 267)

Well, we know that there are offspring between giants and humans because Hagrid is one of them.


timrew - Nov 22, 2003 11:19 am (#65 of 267)

Catherine says. 'I liked Griffin's question about why Flitwick isn't in the Order. My answer would be...how do we know that he isn't?'

Yeah, he could have been there all the time, hiding under the table!


Neville Longbottom - Nov 22, 2003 11:32 am (#66 of 267)

Rofl @ timrew

And imagine how easily he could spy on the Death Eaters this way. *g*

But I think Catherine has a good point. One of the Weasley kids or Hermione said there were more members of the Order, but they hadn't met them all, so it's a possibility that Flitwick is a member as well.


Hermionefan(#1) - Nov 22, 2003 2:51 pm (#67 of 267)

timrew's right. Who says Flitwick's not in the Order?


5ofclubs - Nov 24, 2003 7:30 am (#68 of 267)

On the subject of Goblin Wars, does anyone else see one coming in Book VI? Meanwhile, the Acromantulas and the Centaurs in the Forbidden Forest are fighting because of differing views on Hagrid's right to enter the forest. After all, JKR did say we'd see Aragog again. The giants join Voldemort. House-elves merely fight for whoever "owns" them. Another thought on the Goblin War... Lupin mentioned the DEs might offer the Goblins "freedoms the WW has been denying them for centuries." Might one of these freedoms be wand use? Thus, not only does Gringotts and its contents come under LV's control, but now we have goblins running around with wands given to them by the DEs. In the interests of making this on-topic...sounds like we need Flitwick to reach out to the Goblins more than ever.


Wendelin the Weird - Nov 24, 2003 10:13 pm (#69 of 267)

You crack me up, timrew! *wipes tears*

I’m for the school of thought that Flitwick WAS under the table!! AND Dumbledore spent his days of exile in the lake as the Giant Squid!! After all, it would have been easy enough for Fawkes to drop him off at the lake as they flew out of his office that day, right? Perhaps the Order members' way of secretly communicating is by summoning up a tentacle out of the loo and sending a letter suction-cupped to it to its recipient? *shrieks as men in white coats carry her off in straightjacket*


timrew - Nov 26, 2003 5:10 pm (#70 of 267)

Flitwick would be a very useful member of The Order. Not only was he good at dueling, he could also get among the Death Eaters and bite their ankles if he dropped his wand.

Voldemort:- "Avada - Ouch! What's that biting my ankle?"


Julia. - Dec 21, 2003 9:26 am (#71 of 267)

I was just wondering, Where's the cannon that says Flitwick is the head of Ravenclaw?


Denise P. - Dec 21, 2003 10:52 am (#72 of 267)

JRK said he was in the Barnes and Noble Chat .

Question51: Who is the head of Ravenclaw? Professor Sinistra perhaps?

J.K. Rowling: No, the head of Ravenclaw is good old Professor Flitwick!


Leonean1 - Jan 7, 2004 3:37 pm (#73 of 267)

(Hi everyone -- first post after lurking for 2 weeks; which did give me a chance to read almost everything on the forum!)

At least until this point, I'm thinking that Flitwick is part elf. I do see that as different than a HOUSE elf, in terms of what he is legally allowed to do with magic (i.e. carry a wand) and his ability to move independently and freely around the WW. I see him as the descendant of a house-elf and a witch/wizard.

If I had to choose an analogy, I'd go with American slavery of 1600-1800s. Say that house elves are a bit like slaves -- tied to their house or plantation. Winky and Dobby are like freed/escaped slaves -- granted or purchased, but like the freed slaves found that securing steady work to be difficult because of their past station. Flitwick would be more akin to a free black -- someone who was never enslaved (born free) but may still experirence prejudice because of their race. Funny thing is, there are many examples of freed slaves and free black who were extraordinarily powerful, landed, well-educated, politically influential, and who even owned slaves themselves.

I also see elves as different than dwarves, goblins, and any other number of small-statured beings mentioned by JKR. I read FB this weekend and saw no reference to plain old "elf"... Can anyone remember if there are elves in canon, other than the notion of "Elfish Welfare"?


Hem Hem - Jan 7, 2004 3:56 pm (#74 of 267)

Hmmm, I wonder why Hermione doesn't ask Professor Flitwick to help out with publicity and stuff for SPEW....


prof sprout - Feb 7, 2004 11:42 am (#75 of 267)

The Unofficial Guide suggests that Flitwick is part fairy. I don't believe he is anything but a small wizard. My reasoning is that in OoP it says that Umbridge dislikes "part" breed wizards or part humans (Hagrid, centaurs, there were others but I can't think right now.)I believe she would have been more venomous to him if was a mixed breed wizard. Though maybe if he is mixed, it might not be common knowledge, so she left him alone.

I think that is was pretty cool of him to leave a little memorial from the F&G's swamp. Anyone that cool, has to be in the Order Wink


Julia. - Feb 7, 2004 10:59 pm (#76 of 267)

I think that is was pretty cool of him to leave a little memorial from the F&G's swamp. Anyone that cool, has to be in the Order Wink

I agree Prof. Sprout. Is Professor Flitwick in the Order? We never hear about him turning up at 12GP, but he did give Harry a box of white mice, I believe it was (I don't have my books with me at the moment), After he gave the interview about the night he saw Voldemort return. So, what do we think, Is Flitwick in the Order?


popkin - Feb 7, 2004 11:25 pm (#77 of 267) Reply
Edited by Feb 7, 2004 11:28 pm

I just read that. It was squeaking sugar mice.

As for Flitwick being in the Order, I don't think there is any solid evidence for it, but I think he's in the Order. And I think we'll see him in a very heated and masterful duel. I don't know why JKR would have mentioned his dueling ability if she didn't intend for him to be involved in a duel at some point.


Devika - Feb 9, 2004 7:32 am (#78 of 267)

I think Flitwick is one of the unsaid Order members. While he may not be in DD's inner circle, he surely seems to be a trusted person. As for Hermione not asking him for help for SPEW is concerned, I can only think of two explanations. One, it just hasn't struck her. They seem too used to his image as a teacher to see him in any other light. Two, she might feel that asking him could make him angry. Something like Madame Maxime on being confronted about giantness. Maybe he's also living in denial, that's why we haven't heard anything about his real or supposed elf connections.


Psychedelic Enchantress - Feb 12, 2004 3:10 am (#79 of 267)

Flitwick dueling... reminiscent of Yoda in 'Attack of the Clones'...

The main thing to remember about Flitwick is he is a gifted teacher- there are  suggestions that Umbridge interrogated the kids about him (I think Angelina says something to this effect), but could really find no cause for complaint, since he is a talented wizard who knows what he's doing. Although her animosity to Hagrid was mainly because he is half-giant, it doesn't help that he isn't a very good teacher.

And I always had a sense that Umbridge's bloodline wasn't completely perfect... but I've put my hunch on that matter on the 'Umbridge' thread.


Jenny M. - Feb 13, 2004 4:04 pm (#80 of 267)

I had always assumed that Flitwick was a fully human wizard, just with a growth disorder that made him small (or perhaps he comes from an ethnicity whose people are naturally short, or both). This might be the reason he is seen to drink soda instead of ale ~ since he is so small, any alcohol would affect him much more quickly than it would affect a normal adult.


Rod Beecham - Mar 1, 2004 2:21 am (#81 of 267)

Sorry, this is an irrelevant post, but where is Professor Sprout on this forum?

(And I'm not talking about the person a few posts above!)

I like Sprout, and she deserves a thread. She's Neville Longbottom's favourite teacher and the Head of Hufflepuff, and neither of these facts can be insignificant, can they?

(Don't get me wrong. I like Professor Flitwick, too . . .)


prof sprout - Mar 1, 2004 10:31 am (#82 of 267)

You can create a post about me/her Surprised).


Chris. - Apr 25, 2004 11:19 am (#83 of 267)

I think Professor Flitwick is a relative of the goblins. Maybe he'll help them have their rightful place in the WW, like Hermione with the House-Elves.


HP Fan - Apr 26, 2004 9:24 am (#84 of 267)

I was re-reading PS [SS] the other day. You know the 'tiny old man' with the squeaky voice who bumps into Uncle Vernon at the start and then hugs him. [Before Harry goes to the Dursely's as a baby] Do you think that could have been Professor Flitwick. It just struck me they've both been described as tiny, old and squeaky voiced.


Chris. - Apr 26, 2004 9:28 am (#85 of 267)

Good idea! But would Flitwick know about Vernon?


HP Fan - Apr 26, 2004 9:31 am (#86 of 267)

Wow quick posting!

I was meaning more like he bumped into him on the street - not knowing who he was. We heard of Sirius, and Didulus Diggle before we met them I just wondered if JKR was sort of introducing him in passing.


haymoni - Apr 26, 2004 9:32 am (#87 of 267)

I don't think that character cared that it was Vernon.

Vernon had knocked him over and the little man said that nothing could bother him that day - even Muggles should be celebrating.

Any Muggle could have knocked him over and he would have said the same thing.


Loopy Lupin - Apr 26, 2004 11:07 am (#88 of 267)

Yes, that was my recollection haymoni. I will have to look at it again. It was bound to have been Flitwick, although one would wonder why he was so far from Hogwarts in October/November.


The giant squid - Apr 26, 2004 9:22 pm (#89 of 267)

Loopy, how long has Flitwick been a teacher at Hogwarts? Perhaps he wasn't yet on the faculty when LV was defeated.



JKR4PM - Apr 26, 2004 9:51 pm (#90 of 267)

Flitwick was giving OWL's to MWPP in OoP.

James yawned hugely and rumpled up his hair, making it even messier then it had been. Then, with a glance toward Professor Flitwick, he turned in his seat and grinned at a boy sitting four seats behind him. OoP, Hardback Am Edition pp.639-640 'Snape's Worst Memory'


Loopy Lupin - Apr 27, 2004 5:18 am (#91 of 267)

Good call JKR, so now we still wonder why he was there assuming it was, indeed, Flitwick.


HP Fan - Apr 27, 2004 8:13 am (#92 of 267)

Well both McGonagall and Dumbledore were away from Hogwarts. I should imagine that things at Hogwarts were a bit every which way. Is seriously doubt that there would have been any lessons as the biggest threat to the Wizarding World had gone [as far as many people] were concerned for good. It could be that if it was Flitwick, he could have had permission to go and celebrate with his friends and family.

Or he if he's a member of the Order he could have been doing something for the order, but not even realised that he'd bumped into the person who was going to become Harry's guardian.


Loopy Lupin - Apr 27, 2004 8:29 am (#93 of 267)

Hey! That brings up a good point. We know Snape, McGonnagal, and Hagrid are in the order. Is there anything to say, one way or another, whether he is in the Order or not?


The giant squid - Apr 27, 2004 10:50 pm (#94 of 267)

I think this was asked elsewhere, Loopy, either on this thread or another (gee, I'm helpful...). I think the consensus was similar to the DIGS theory--there's nothing saying he is, but there's nothing saying he isn't. Wink

Flitwick just kinda hangs in the background most of the time. Other than Charms classes he only gets quick descriptives here and there (trimming the Christmas trees, levitating Trelawny's trunks, etc.). Does anyone know of Flitwick having any lines outside of class?



Julia. - Apr 28, 2004 4:27 am (#95 of 267)

Well, there the one in PS/SS when Malfoy finds out that Harry's been sent a broom stick. Malfoy goes off to find a teacher to tell, and Professor Flitwick comes up behind them and says "not fighting, are you boys?" or something to that effect. I'm in a bit of a rush to get to class, so I can't find the reference. If you really want it, I can look when I get back.


I Am Used Vlad - Apr 28, 2004 8:40 am (#96 of 267)
Edited Apr 28, 2004 9:41 am

Flitwick was not mentioned when Harry was looking at the picture of the original Order. This proves nothing, of course, but I doubt he is an Order member. If he was a member, Harry would probably have been made aware of it, in case he had to get in touch with the Order while at school.


prof sprout - Apr 28, 2004 11:24 am (#97 of 267)

I really hope he is in the order because he is soooo cool, but good point. If Harry had thought he could go to Professor Flitwick in OoP, I think he would have, to get a hold of him. Is it ever firmly stated that Prof McGonnagal is in the Order? I don't remember her name being mentioned in the photo, or ever hearing of her "popping" in to 12GP?


Chris. - Apr 28, 2004 11:48 am (#98 of 267)

Yes, McGonagall is in the Order. She was mentioned, popping into 12GP. Harry saw her wearing Muggle clothes, which he found weird for her. I'll get a quote for you if you want.


rambkowalczyk - Apr 28, 2004 11:49 am (#99 of 267)

I think there is a line somewhere where McGonagall was at 12 Grimmauld Place wearing a muggle dress. I find it interesting to note that none of the teachers were in that picture. Snape isn't in the picture possibly to protect him from Voldemort or other deatheaters. Maybe Flitwick is a secret member. He did give Harry Sugar Mice after his interview.


Chris. - Apr 28, 2004 11:52 am (#100 of 267)

I always thought Snape turned over after the Potter's deaths. Maybe that's why he wasn't in it.

He probably gave Harry the white mice, out of his great dislike of Umbridge. He admired Harry sticking up for Dumbledore.
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Padfoot - Apr 28, 2004 11:53 am (#101 of 267)

Perhaps the picture wasn't all members. For instance, it could have been taken during the school year in London.


Loopy Lupin - Apr 28, 2004 12:55 pm (#102 of 267)

I just thought of something along these lines. For what its worth, if he is in the Order he must be a secret member as suggested above. At least Harry is unaware of it. Once DD, Hagrid, and McGonnagal, Harry didn't think that there were any other Order members to try to contact regarding Sirius. He had forgotten about Snape of course, but I doubt that Snape ever comes to Harry's mind if Harry can avoid it.


Tomoé - Apr 28, 2004 6:14 pm (#103 of 267)
Edited Apr 28, 2004 7:15 pm

In PoA, as Harry and Hermione get back to the Great Hall, "Professor Flitwick, who was a tiny little wizard with a shock of white hair, was carrying an ancient hat and a three-leged stool out of the hall." (UK PoA ch.5 p.71)

Seems like he took MacGonagall's place while she was working on something else.

edit : I would put his fourth in importance after Dumbledore, MacGonagall and Snape.


Chris. - Apr 30, 2004 5:25 pm (#104 of 267)
Edited Apr 30, 2004 6:25 pm

I thought Flitwick only did the Sorting instead of McGonagall because she was talking to Harry about the Dementor attack and to Hermione about the Time-Turner.


Tomoé - Apr 30, 2004 7:06 pm (#105 of 267)
Edited Apr 30, 2004 8:08 pm

Of course, he only did the Sorting instead of McGonagall because she was talking to Harry about the Dementor attack and to Hermione about the Time-Turner, but why not Snape instead? or Sinistra? or Sprout? or Haggrid? or Lupin? or Vector?


Chris. - Apr 30, 2004 7:08 pm (#106 of 267)

Oh... I never thought about it that way.

Yes, it does seem he has a higher role than some of the other teachers.


Tomoé - Apr 30, 2004 7:10 pm (#107 of 267)

I think there are other examples, put I can't remember where.


Rich - Apr 30, 2004 7:18 pm (#108 of 267)

Flitwick is the Head of Ravenclaw isn't he? And Sprout is the Head of Hufflepuff? I think a teacher's role in the school is boosted by the fact that they have that responsibility.

This was mentioned a few months ago, I think. It was a while ago anyway. It is said somewhere in the books or movies that Flitwick is an excellent dueler and he even won a tournament, or something along those lines. Do you think there's a possibility that he may give Harry dueling lessons, or the DA? Or that the dueling club may start up again with Flitwick leading the lessons?

This isn't an original theory. The reason I am bringing this up again is because I think that the students, and in particular Harry, are going to need to gain some knowledge in this regard. And with the mention of Flitwick's exceptional talent, there could be a possibility he'll pass on some of his knowledge. There should be a few new ideas.


Chris. - Apr 30, 2004 7:33 pm (#109 of 267)

Hermione heard that Flitwick was a Dueling champion. We don't know it's a fact but it probably is.


Iverson Godfrey - Apr 30, 2004 8:22 pm (#110 of 267)
Edited Apr 30, 2004 9:23 pm

Does anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that Tiny Prof Flitwick might not be as good as he seems? He seems to be a strong Dumbledore supporter and an all around good guy. One would almost assume he should be a member of the Order of the Phoenix. His absence seems conspicuous from the order, and it seems very strange that if he were a member, someone wouldn't have let Harry know, just in case. Also, Umbrige never seemed to give him a second thought. Definitely none of the grief that the others who are loyal to Dumbledore received. I just wonder if we aren't supposed to assume that he is good and kind so we will be utterly shocked when we find out there is really something dark or sinister about him.

--let the flogging commence


Detail Seeker - May 1, 2004 12:39 pm (#111 of 267)

We are always in for a surprise, so your theory canot be discarded that easily. But would the surprise not be grater, were he in the Order ?

As to his non-Order-membership: Hogwarts teachers do not seem to have much opportunity to get around outside the holidays. So, Dumbledore recruited only those teachers for active work with the order, who were either in the first Order (McGonagall) or who had special abilities absolutely needed for the work (Snape, Hagrid). Otherwise it seems to be reasonable to keep the other Hogwarts teachers out of the Order. Doing a good teaching job is the best they can do forthe Wizad World at the moment, so let them focus on it. The other members of the Order have their function in that they are sources of information from regions not accessible to Dumbledore (MoM-interna, scene of petty criminals)in addition to their fighting qualities. They can contribute actively to Dumbledore´s / Moody´s assessment of the theatre. This is something, the teachers cannot do.

So, it makes perfectly logical not to involve them. If Dumbledore can trust them (or relevant ones, imagine Trelawney in a fight...), he knows, they will be there, when it comes to fighting - but in preparing the battle field, gathering information, pinpointing targets, they cannot help, because this would hinder them in their main task - educating the young generation. And involving them would increase the risk of an information leak.

So, while not dismissing your theory, Iverson, I do not see your indicators necessarily pointing this way.


haymoni - May 1, 2004 3:24 pm (#112 of 267)

I wasn't sure whether I had the AUTHORITY - I just loved that line!

Flitwick shutting the door in Umbridge's face after saying that was even better.


HP Fan - May 3, 2004 12:07 pm (#113 of 267)

Yes that and his pressing the box of sugar mice on Harry after the Quibbler make me feel he is defiantly on Dumbledore's side - I wouldn't be surprised if he was a member of the Order. Having said that I wouldn't be overly suprised if he wasn't.

And after sitting on the fence and not really adding anything really new will now go and iron hands ala Dobby!


Iverson Godfrey - May 3, 2004 3:25 pm (#114 of 267)

Don't get me wrong, I love Flitwick. His squeaky little voice, getting all excited and toppling off his pile of books, saving a section of Fred and George's swamp...His "authority" line was great. His character has been very endearing and he SEEMS great!

I truly don't expect him to be anything but what he appears- a good guy, supportive of Dumbledore, a very good teacher- exactly the kind of character you would never suspect. I don't know if it makes any sense, but I think my "distrust" of his character stems from the cheerful, good-natured personality portrait we have seen so far. I feel like I am supposed to like and trust him, so of course I shouldn't allow myself to be lulled into a false sense of security.

Maybe Moody is starting to wear off on me.


Loopy Lupin - May 5, 2004 5:14 am (#115 of 267)

Well, you can never trust anyone in this series, but part of the problem (using the word "problem" very loosely) in participating in the forum is that things start to seem obvious which maybe aren't very obvious. Flitwick is very conspicuous in his absence from the Order which raises all kinds of hackles here, but maybe his character is just one of those "flavors" that makes the books so vivid and good.


Hagsquid - May 5, 2004 11:36 am (#116 of 267) Reply
Edited by May 5, 2004 12:36 pm

(comepletely off the current path of conversation in 3... 2...)


Was anyone else surprised to learn that Flitwick is "Willow" and the Leprechaun from "Leprechaun?" :-D


Padfoot - May 5, 2004 11:41 am (#117 of 267)

Type casting? Well Flitwick is supposed to be really, really short. Don't his legs dangle a foot off the floor when he is sitting in the Three Broomsticks? I can't remember the exact quote. I wonder if he is related to dwarfs or house elves in some way?


Loopy Lupin - May 5, 2004 12:00 pm (#118 of 267)

Not surprised here. There isn't that much work for little people, so its not surprising that he would be in several movies. (He's also the goblin at the beginning of SS/PS).


Tomoé - May 5, 2004 3:25 pm (#119 of 267)
Edited May 5, 2004 4:26 pm

There not much people that are that little, let alone little people who can act convincingly and are British. Warwick was the obvious choice I suppose.

Edit : Maybe he was the only man for the job and I mean the only man.


Kathryn Pottinger - May 6, 2004 1:38 am (#120 of 267)

He was Willow?!?!? Wow, I loved that movie as a kid...... (off too watch PS again....)


Eloise returned - May 11, 2004 3:19 pm (#121 of 267)

I agree, Warwick was the obvious choice.

I just can't see Flitwick as untrustworthy. He seems to have been established as an all-around awesome guy. About Loopy's comment that "you can never trust anyone in this series", all of the characters that were revealed to be what they didn't seem so far were introduced* and unmasked in the same book. It seems to me that if a character makes it through one book without becoming someone else, he/she will not become someone else. Of course I could be wrong, and I wouldn't put it past JKR to throw a major twist in the future, I'm just looking for patterns.

However, there is the ever-frustrating question of why isn't Professor Flitwick in the Order of the Phoenix? He seems like perfect Voldie-fighting material. The man has got mad charm skills, dueling skills, teaching skills, etc. Would DD overlook him? Surely not! Is he perhaps unwilling - doesn't like the idea of all those risks?

I know Sirius was mentioned in SS, but he really wasn't introduced until PoA.


haymoni - May 11, 2004 3:25 pm (#122 of 267)

Just like Umbridge could be vile and not be a Death Eater, so could Professor Flitwick be good and not be in the Order.

Maybe he is one of the married staff members and has a wife and a few baby Flitwicks at home to take care of!


Eloise returned - May 11, 2004 4:47 pm (#123 of 267)

omg, baby flitwicks... so cute!

That would make sense, haymoni, that there are more important things which can't be risked. It's just his incredible talent that makes me wonder why he's not in the Order.


Ozymandias - May 12, 2004 1:57 am (#124 of 267)

Could he have been in the Order and just been on a mission the whole summer? I don't think they ever have a big meeting where everyone attends.


Loopy Lupin - May 12, 2004 6:43 am (#125 of 267)
Edited May 12, 2004 7:43 am

Eloise, I would point out that Percy was introduced in Book 1, but didn't betray his family until Book 5.

Similarly, Fudge seemed a nice enough sort until the last pages of Book 4 and then obviously on into Book 5. Of course, neither Percy nor Fudge turned out to be a completely different person, but they both proved to have very different characters than what we might have thought at first. Honestly, I think we're safe with Flitwick being a good guy, Order member or not. Neville's Grandmother on the other hand. . . . . .


Padfoot - May 12, 2004 11:01 am (#126 of 267)

I agree with Flitwick being good, but not necessarily in the Order. Or maybe now that Voldy is out and about, he will join now.


 Dumbly-dorr - May 14, 2004 12:08 am (#127 of 267)

Well, we don't know everyone who is in the Order. Flitwick could be and we just don't know it yet.

But, on to the real reason for this post. A few (or more) posts back the discussion was about Flitwick teaching the DA to duel and then about Flitwick skills being useful to the Order. I remember reading a while back on a thread that I won't even start to try and remember because it's been too long ago but I think it was one of the movie threads...where was I...oh, yeah...something about JKR saying something about an important bit of information included in the making of CoS that would be better understood in future books. This made me think...what if it was the line Lockhart said about Flitwick being a dueling champion? This may be reference to Flitwick's helping the DA. Just speculation. What do you think?


mike miller - May 14, 2004 3:25 am (#128 of 267)

Interesting hypothesis Dumbly-dorr. If the DA becomes a sanctioned club, which I think is highly likely, it will probably have a sponsor. It would be very interesting twist to have a different staff member sponsoring the DA (say Flitwick) than the DADA teacher (say Snape).

I don't think that will happen, but could lead to some interesting reading. Whoever is appointed DADA teacher will probably take over the "offical" sponsorship of the DA with Harry still being the true leader.


haymoni - May 14, 2004 5:06 am (#129 of 267)

Someone was interested in being on Gryffindor's Quidditch team but said that Charms Club came first - or something like that - Wouldn't Flitwick be in charge of the Charms Club?

I'm not saying that he wouldn't help the DA, I just think he would already have one group to manage.


oeddypus - Jun 18, 2004 9:49 am (#130 of 267)

As a devoted Ravenclaw, I feel obliged to comment. I play Flitwick in an RPG, and before that, I wrote some fanfiction about him. My hypothesis has always been that he's half-dwarf. As for Umbridge, I think Flitwick's well up to casting a charm so that, to her, he looks as un-goblinlike and as purely human as Lockhart.


Dumbledore - Jun 19, 2004 4:47 pm (#131 of 267)

I have always got the impression that Flitwick is half elf, but I suppose that's sort of the same thing.


Isenduil - Jun 20, 2004 12:28 am (#132 of 267)

I have to say I just think he is a human wizard with Dwarfism (sp?) and I don't mean the race I mean the genetic disorder.


Choices - Jun 23, 2004 9:29 am (#133 of 267)

I have to say I just think he is a human wizard with Dwarfism (sp?) and I don't mean the race I mean the genetic disorder.

That has always been my belief, too.


Rich - Jun 25, 2004 11:34 pm (#134 of 267)

That's the logical assumption. But with a world as diverse as the WW I think for Flitwick to be a wizard with a certain dwarfism condition (there's something like 300 conditions) it would be disappointing, in that if Flitwick was a half-elf/dwarf/goblin it could possibly broaden our knowledge of other races in the WW.


Anna Osipova - Jul 8, 2004 2:39 pm (#135 of 267)

The wizarding world has many different "types" of humans. Hags, for example, seem to be of their own "race", but what makes them that way? Perhaps the same can be said of Flitwick?


Loopy Lupin - Jul 14, 2004 6:02 am (#136 of 267)

I doubt he has a medical condition. That just wouldn't seem right for the tone of the books. We have seen house elves through out the books and then there were the dwarves delivering singing valentines in COS. I cast my lot with him being some sort of half-blood a la Hagrid. (Oooh. Wonder if he's royalty of some sort?)


Padfoot - Jul 14, 2004 9:30 am (#137 of 267)

Flitwick as the HbP? LOL! Ok, that would be completely unexpected. If he is and is not a member of the Order, what will that mean to Harry?


Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 5:34 pm (#138 of 267)

I posted the following in the Goblins Forum earlier, but I will copy it here as well. in response to Padfoot's comment. I am copying it word for word so it will include a great deal about goblins and not as much about Flitwick. But it does tie into Flitwick in the end. (oh dear, I am almost certain someone is going to come on and tell me to stop posting such long messages. Oh well, I guess that there are only a few people who actually know the identity of Classicsquid592 and none of them are on this forum. anyway, Here it is:

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| What if Voldemort somehow gained the support of the Goblins and thus control of much of the wizarding economy. This would give Voldemort great power in the wizarding world. Anyone wanting to use money in the wizarding world would have to declare loyalty to Voldemort, the order of the phoenix would have nothing, their only remaining safe-haven would be Hogwarts itself which would cease to be a school and become something of a fortress for all those who still oppose Voldemort.

If this were the case Voldemort or one of his death eaters might be the next minister of magic. This is only a worst-case scenario, but it does show the potential significance of the goblins. We do not yet know the impact that Voldemort's allying with the dementors will have, and we do not know whether or not Hagrid will succeed in changing the giants' affiliations. But the giants and the centaurs are examples of the potential consequences of the wizards' tendency to consider themselves superior to all other races.

The goblins are another one of these sullen races employed by the magical world. The goblin rebellion shows that they are not afraid to fight for their rights and if they continue to feel cheated by the wizards (through more events such as the Ludo Bagman incident in the fourth book) then Voldemort would need only tell them that his followers would stand behind them and help them to take complete control of Gringotts and to give them their "much deserved" power in the wizarding world.

If something such as this were to happen the only hope for peace and the end of the second goblin rebellion would be half-goblins such as Flitwick. We don't know much about Flitwick's history except that he oversaw the defence against the dark arts final in Snape's pensieve, and may have been the defence against the dark arts teacher when the Marauders were in school. We know less about his parents than we do Hagrid's. If the Goblins were to start getting increasingly violent against the wizarding world, Flitwick would likely be a key character, possibly even the half-blood prince.

I am not actually trying to predict anything, I am simply showing some of the ways that Goblins and half-goblins could become extremely important to the war. Though I think that Flitwick is an unlikely candidate for HBP (mainly because nothing is mentioned about his past until OotP), Filius Flitwick is among my favorite characters and I would like to see him have a moment of glory before the end. I think that at one time the goblin side of his personality may have been quite apparent and he has just grown soft with age. JKR has told us that we will learn everything we want to know about the marauder's years at school before the end of the series. I hope that this also means seeing more of the older professors such as Flitwick in their prime. I apologize, it seems I got off on a tangent about Flitwick, it seems that I need to go hang out in the Flitwick forum which I have not yet visited.

*Sorry for rambling. I seem to have a habit of doing this. I will soon be blocked from the Forum for it I am certain.* ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||


Classicsquid592 - Aug 24, 2004 5:39 pm (#139 of 267)

wait, I just read the rest of this forum, I didn't know that we didn't know what Flitwick is. I thought that he was half-goblin. that changes everything. oh well, if he is, then the previous post will apply, if he is something else, then who knows... whatever the case, I do think that as we learn more about the marauder's school years, we will also learn more about Flitwick's history. Sorry, I had thought that the book identified him as half-goblin somewhere.


schoff - Aug 24, 2004 6:00 pm (#140 of 267)

It's most likely movie contamination, Classicsquid. Warwick Davis played both the first Gringotts goblin and Professor Flitwick. Personally, I've always thought of him as half-elf, like the House-elves.


Classicsquid592 - Aug 25, 2004 1:21 pm (#141 of 267)

There is still a possibility of him being half-goblin. The head of Ravenclaw would strike me as a half-goblin rather than a half-house elf. He seems to possess a great deal of the cunning of the goblins and he may have been extremely powerful and possibly even ruthless in his prime. I wonder if JKR would refuse to answer if someone at some point asked about Flitwick's ancestry. Just because there is no actual proof that Flitwick is half goblin, doesn't mean he can't be, so far as I know. All that I know now is that I have now have to learn that old proverb about the word "assume" the hard way. I will continue to stick to a Flitwick=half-goblin view until I know exactly what he is.

(*Which will, as I said probably be answered at some point. I think that we will learn alot more about all of the major students/teachers during the Maurauder's years at Hogwarts before the end. You're right about film contamination, though. When I last read OoTP, I all of a sudden started picturing the young Flitwick in Snape's Penseive as Warwick Davis' character in the film for POA, Moustache and all. But that is another thing that just fits. one can't help thinking "that must have been what Flitwick looked like when Sirius was at shool." It will be interesting to see if JKR ever manages to succomb to Film contamination. I know that if any of my books were ever made into popular films I might have the occasional moment from the movie pop into my head and not remember whether it came from my imagination or *my memory.*)


Dedalus Diggle - Sep 1, 2004 7:57 am (#142 of 267)

There is all this speculation on whether Flitwick is half house-elf. The prefix 'house', makes me wonder whether there are other kinds of elf such as...mountain-elves, river-elves (get my drift?!) If there are, Flitwick could easily be one of them - we don't know what they're like.

Whatever Flitwick is - he needs a much bigger role!!!! (please!)


Choices - Sep 8, 2004 8:03 am (#143 of 267)

I was under the impression that the "house" part just indicated what work they do. Elves are elves, and the ones who serve families in their homes are referred to as house-elves.


Quidam - Sep 18, 2004 3:49 am (#144 of 267)

I just read the open letter to JKR and I think it may be safe to assume that Flitwick is pure human. I say this because if he was something else, Umbridge would have found an excuse to put him on probation. Then again I could be wrong.


El Cronista de Salem - Sep 18, 2004 3:57 am (#145 of 267)

I love this logical deduction, Quidam, but It would be more interesting that Flitwick would be part human - part... something!


Classicsquid592 - Sep 19, 2004 11:58 am (#146 of 267)

Umbrige would have been looking for an excuse to put Flitwick on probation. Looking through all of the books, can you find anything wrong with Flitwick's teaching style? Let's say Flitwick is half-goblin (which I still think he very well may be), or even that Umbrige suspects he might be half-goblin, she would be constantly looking for any signs of aggression, seeing the human students as inferior, or any other goblin traits. If she couldn't find any, then what could she do to him? Trelawney was easy to suspend and Hagrid had already gotten alot of bad press last year. Flitwick has been at Hogwarts for a long time and may have been Umbrige's teacher (I still wonder if he ever taught DADA). So far as I know, everyone seems to like Flitwick. I think it would be very hard to do anything to a teacher who has been there for such a long time. I also think that Umbrige would have a hard time ridding the school of any of the heads of house no matter what they are.


rambkowalczyk - Sep 24, 2004 8:37 am (#147 of 267)

In other posts, there has been discussion as to who might betray the order. I was thinking of Flitwick not because of anything he has done but mainly because he might be a somewhat major character. He is after all Head of the Ravenclaw House. The major problem is we know so little of him.

He's short, cute,and likable. He doesn't seem to mind the chaos that appears to happens when he lets the students practise Summoning and Repelling charms. Ages ago he was a dueling champion.

No character flaws have been written about him by JKR. I have read previous posts that speculate he may be half human and half goblin, or elf. Is this his only secret? We know McGonnagall goes to 12 Grimmauld place but there is no indication that that Flitwick is an order member. If he is half goblin might he not side with the faction that might want to sign up with Lord Voldemort?


Classicsquid592 - Sep 28, 2004 2:58 pm (#148 of 267)
Edited Sep 28, 2004 3:59 pm


I mention the possible significance of Flitwick back in post 138 in this thread which I had brought in from the Goblin's thread (thank goodness). I had suggested that if Flitwick is half-goblin, (an idea which you seem to be the only one to share with me), and the Goblins were the key to the dark-lord's rise to power, then Flitwick might be the only hope of reconciliation with Goblin-kind. I do not think that Flitwick is a traitor, at least, I hope not. I think that there are other reasons that he is not mentioned as an order member. There is also a thread which deals entirely with who might betray the order: Hogs Head "Treason in Book 6 and/or 7" 9/28/04 3:37pm you might want to post your message there as well this might prevent the argument from getting off topic.

P.S. Do you mind if we call you "Wal"?

Choices - Sep 28, 2004 4:11 pm (#149 of 267)

It is difficult to speculate on whether Flitwick will betray the Order because we don't even know if he is in the Order. Just like Professors Trelawney, Sinistra, Hooch, Sprout. etc. we know nothing about their participation or lack of participation in the Order. Anything we might say on the subject would just be guesswork.


rambkowalczyk - Sep 29, 2004 5:33 am (#150 of 267)

Classicsquid592, call me ramb

the reason I posted here was because I was looking for character flaws, and Flitwick doesn't seem to have any. This means he is a minor character, and therefore doesn't need any or his flaws are being deliberately hidden.

The only two that I could come up with was he is hiding his Goblin past or some past like a tragic dueling accident, or he is going to betray the order. I think the first is more likely than the second.
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Filius Flitwick Empty Re: Filius Flitwick

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Wendelin the Weird - Sep 30, 2004 6:24 pm (#151 of 267)
Edited Sep 30, 2004 7:27 pm

I was rereading the Hog's Head Pub Chapter in OotP and I find it interesting that at the moment that Harry is questioning whether it was a good idea to meet there (as he looks at the veiled witch that we later learn is Dung) Hermione says quote: "...We're not out of bounds; I specifically asked Professor Flitwick whether students were allowed to come into the Hog's Head, and he said yes, but he advised me strongly to bring our own glasses."

So it makes me wonder if perhaps Flitwick is the one who tipped the Order off or Dumbledore, who in turn posted Dung in disguise to keep an eye on Harry. After all, the witch was there already when he got there. Whether or not Dung was in disguise because he had been kicked out 20 years ago by the owner, or if it was because he was posted there on Order business is not proven, but it seems to me that it wasn't coincidence.

So anyway, this is not pure evidence that Flitwick is in the Order but I certainly think he is close enough to Dumbledore to know that he is closely monitoring Harry's activities if he indeed posted Dung there himself. It didn't seem like Dumbledore was very surprised to learn that Harry and the students were meeting secretly so I tend to think Dung was there following him again.


TwinklingBlueEyes - Sep 30, 2004 7:04 pm (#152 of 267)

I agree that Flitwick may be part of the eyes and ears network Dumbledore has established. So far we have seen "active" members of the order, but knowing Dumbledore's planning skills, I can see a whole network of people working behind the scenes. I believe Professor Flitwick is one.

Can't help but remember his responses to Umbridge's first afternoon as acting headmaster! Not to mention his almost casual removing the swamp, except for that small part because it was "really good magic". I also think that one of the little tidbits that JKR gave us about Flitwick, his background in dueling, will come into play before this series is done.


Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 13, 2004 6:56 pm (#153 of 267)

those are some interesting points about Flitwick. Also, his commentary about the Hog's Head make him as though he may frequent the establishment.


Tomoé - Oct 16, 2004 3:40 pm (#154 of 267)

Happy birthday Flitwick!!!


El Cronista de Salem - Oct 16, 2004 4:43 pm (#155 of 267)

And the birthday confirms Flitwick's first name, 'Filius' ;-)


Classicsquid592 - Oct 16, 2004 5:05 pm (#156 of 267)

Does Flitwick's first name have any significance to the series? Flitwick means "son" might his parentage come into play later? This has probably already been discussed, but I do think that it is an interesting thing to think about.


Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 16, 2004 6:11 pm (#157 of 267)
Edited Oct 16, 2004 7:13 pm

Filius means son in Latin as near as I can recall but, it is a long a age since, I have studied Latin.


Steve Newton - Oct 16, 2004 6:26 pm (#158 of 267)

Let's see. Kind and gentle. Patient teacher. Good duelist when younger. Sense of humor. Not a member of the OOTP. Apparently powerful. Sounds like maybe he was brought up as a pampered prince. I don't want to go there.


DJ Evans - Oct 16, 2004 6:50 pm (#159 of 267)

Just for those you might be interested here is what is on the back of Prof. Flitwick's Chocolate Frog card:

Head of Ravenclaw House. A tiny little wizard who squeaks when he talks & has to stand on a pile of books to see over his desk. Rumored to have been a dueling champion when he was young & to know a great deal about Entrancing Enchantments. (bold mine)

hmmmm, Entrancing Enchantments -- we haven't seen anything on them yet have we?

Anyhoo, Happy Birthday Filius!!!!

Later, Deb


Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 16, 2004 8:37 pm (#160 of 267)
Edited Oct 16, 2004 9:42 pm

Where did J.K. Rowling say that Filius was not a member of the Order I am curious because, I am wtriting a paper on Flitwick for a modern mythology class.


Tomoé - Oct 16, 2004 8:41 pm (#161 of 267)

Filius was not what?


Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 16, 2004 8:43 pm (#162 of 267)
Edited Oct 16, 2004 9:45 pm

Tomoe, I accidently hit the post message buton before I finished correcting the message. I meant to ask where J.K. Rowling had stated that Filius was not a member of the Order because, I am doing a paper on Flitwick for a class.


haymoni - Oct 16, 2004 8:51 pm (#163 of 267)
Edited Oct 16, 2004 9:52 pm

We do not know that Flitwick was not in the original Order.

He was not pictured in the photo that Mad Eye had - are we to believe that the entire Order was in that picture? If they were, then Lupin was certainly right - they WERE outnumbered!

Edit - it just dawned on me, who took the picture???


Nathan Zimmermann - Oct 16, 2004 8:59 pm (#164 of 267)

Haymoni, many thanks that is great help.

Best Regards, Nathan


Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 17, 2004 2:59 am (#165 of 267)

If I remember Correctly Professor Mcgonagall wasn't in the picture so she could have been the one to take the picture.


Steve Newton - Oct 17, 2004 4:58 am (#166 of 267)

OK, it has never been mentioned that FF was in the order. Mcgonagall has been mentioned as being a member. (Did she visit Grimmaud Place, can't remember.) This late in the game with no mention suggests, to me, that he is/was not a member.


Kelly Kapaoski - Oct 17, 2004 6:09 am (#167 of 267)

McGonagall stopped by 12 grimmauld place


Choices - Oct 17, 2004 5:01 pm (#168 of 267)

She did and she was wearing muggle clothes and the kids found it interesting to see her dressed like that.


haymoni - Oct 18, 2004 10:40 am (#169 of 267)

She's in the Order NOW, but was she in the original group?


legolas - Oct 18, 2004 10:45 am (#170 of 267)

I would imagine that she was in the unofficial group before because she was not named in the picture. I think she was probably behind the scenes like so many others.


Tomoé - Oct 19, 2004 9:30 am (#171 of 267)

Or she could have joined later, it's not the picture after Voldemort was vanquished after all.


Jessalynn Quirky - Oct 19, 2004 1:41 pm (#172 of 267)

Hmmmm, wonder what time that picture was taken?

Maybe we should start a new topic on this, since this really isn't on the subject of Flitwick......


schoff - Oct 24, 2004 10:17 pm (#173 of 267)
Edited Oct 24, 2004 11:18 pm

hmmmm, Entrancing Enchantments -- we haven't seen anything on them yet have we?

That was taken from CS also (Ch. 13 US236)--Valentine's Day.


Under The Imperius - Aug 21, 2005 2:54 am (#174 of 267) Reply
Edited by Kip Carter Aug 21, 2005 4:50 am

Filius Flitwick

Hey Guys! I wanted to start this Thread For Prof. Flitwick because he is one of the teachers that does not get much attention. Also because Flitwick is so old, he might have some clues about Ravenclaw Relics and maybe some memories about young Voldemort for Harry.

Anyway, these are my thoughts.

Happy Posting

Added Edit: As Nathan Zimmermann mentioned in the next post, there is another existing thread on the tiny professor, which had been archived. I have opened that thread and moved the new thread started by Under the Imperius along two messages to the end of the older thread. - Kip 4:50 a.m. Sun 21 Aug 2005


Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 20, 2005 2:23 pm (#175 of 267)

Under the Imperius, this is a link to an earlier thread on Flitwick that was archived.

Griffin, "Filius Flitwick" #, 27 Sep 2003 3:27 pm


Mrs. Sirius - Aug 20, 2005 9:50 pm (#176 of 267)

he might have some clues about Ravenclaw Relics and maybe some memories about young Voldemort for Harry.

Isn't one of the horcruxes supposed to be hidden in a possession or relic of Rowena Ravenclaw? If Flitwick was head of house during Tom Riddle's day then he may well give us a hint as to what that could be.


Nathan Zimmermann - Aug 21, 2005 10:06 am (#177 of 267)
Edited Aug 21, 2005 11:08 am

Professor Flitwick reminds me of the warrior princes and kings of the Muggle world during the Middle Ages, who late in life renounced the ways of the warrior and sought seclusion within hermitages. I envision Flitwick despite his diminutive stature as a formidable opponent.


Dame Peverell - Aug 21, 2005 7:42 pm (#178 of 267)
Edited Aug 21, 2005 8:43 pm

Hey! In a fight I'd like to have him covering my back... Literally!


Netherlandic - Sep 10, 2005 3:21 pm (#179 of 267)
Edited Sep 10, 2005 4:22 pm

We all know that Flitwick is head of Ravenclaw House, but as far as I can tell it has never been written in one of the books until HBP came out. How did we all know (well I always asumed he was). Can anyone help me?


haymoni - Sep 10, 2005 6:16 pm (#180 of 267)

It was in a chat wasn't it?


Ydnam96 - Sep 11, 2005 12:29 am (#181 of 267)

If I am not mistaken it was one of the Open Letter questions asked by the Lex and Mugglenet.


Netherlandic - Sep 11, 2005 8:32 am (#182 of 267)

Ok, thanks.


Vulture - Sep 24, 2005 5:39 am (#183 of 267)
Edited Sep 24, 2005 6:39 am

Sorry if I'm interrupting; thought this was relevant (I've put it on other threads, too):

Can we go 100% on what JKR says outside the books ? (I'm risking a blast of wrath for sacrilege here !!) I say this because, in her website, in answering a Flitwick question ("Is Flitwick a short human or is he some other type of being?"), she says:

“he did say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ that he was very fond of Lily, thus establishing that he was not prejudiced against Muggle-borns.”

There's no such incident, at least not in my copy of "Philosopher’s Stone". Mind you, this answer does sound quite close to the content of Slughorn's first conversation with Harry in Book 6. Could she have got mixed up ? Or perhaps started out writing the incident for Flitwick and later switched to Slughorn ?

To see the extract I refer to, click [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Chemyst - Sep 24, 2005 7:58 am (#184 of 267)
Edited Sep 24, 2005 9:05 am

Vulture, I've seen your complaint on the Questions for the Hosts, the Slughorn, & the Snape threads — so far.   It seems to belong here best, so this is where I'll answer - though I fully expect some of the extra posts, and possibly this one, to be deleted.

If there truly is no instance of this:
 (he did say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ that he (Flitwick) was very fond of Lily, thus establishing that he was not prejudiced against Muggle-borns).
. . .... then you probably have found an error. It would be an error of recording and not an error of substance.

Given the other information we have about Flitwick, it is something he would have been likely to say in PS. We know from Olivander's statments that Lily's wand was good for charm work and Flitwick would be the Hogwarts expert on charms. It makes sense that he'd be fond of a student who was both popular and gifted in his own specialty.


Ana Cis - Sep 24, 2005 9:16 pm (#185 of 267)

Vulture, I don't go by what she says 100 percent of the time, just 99.5...not perfect, but let's say the odds of her being right are pretty high.


RoseMorninStar - Sep 24, 2005 10:30 pm (#186 of 267)

JKR has said that she never intentionally lies or misleads in an interview. She has said however, that she has made mistakes in interviews as she did with the number of students at Hogwarts..that kind of thing. So, it was probably an error. Maybe she intended to put that in but saved it for Slughorn.


Honour - Oct 16, 2005 4:13 am (#187 of 267)

I always thought it was strange that in HBP Minerva sent Filius to get Severus, why would you send a dueling champion away from a battle? Wouldn't he be of more value to the Order to have stayed and fought? Surely Tonks could have sent her patronus or someone else could have gone instead? and why would a dueling champion allow himself to be hexed? No major, just a couple of niggly thoughts that have plagued me ...


Circe - Oct 20, 2005 3:37 am (#188 of 267)

It seems to me to go back to the question whether he is in the Order or not. Seems like that night it was the Order defending the school more than the teachers (we didn't see any non-order teachers in the thick of it did we?)


Honour - Oct 20, 2005 7:17 pm (#189 of 267)
Edited Oct 20, 2005 8:18 pm

Hmmn ... I suppose that could indeed be the reason. Mad Eye didn't mention Filius' name when showing Harry the photo of the Original Order (in OOTP), mind you, Minerva was not included either, does this mean that she is not a member either? ... Curious ...


The giant squid - Oct 21, 2005 3:07 am (#190 of 267)

Honour, the photo was of the Order years ago. It may be that MInerva & Filius weren't members then. Things have obviously changed, as noted by the number of people Moody pointed out that were no longer with us (Lily & James, the Prewetts, etc.). Dumbledore needed to fill the ranks, as it were...



Honour - Oct 21, 2005 3:37 am (#191 of 267)

Thanks Mike, was just curious as to why if Minerva and Filius were newer members why this was not made clear to Harry. Just thinking out loud Smile


Saracene - Oct 22, 2005 2:37 am (#192 of 267)
Edited Oct 22, 2005 3:39 am

I also thought it was strange that Minerva would send Flitwick to get Snape, although for a different reason. If either of them are in the Order, and know about Snape's spying position, surely they'd realise that there's danger in summoning him to the scene where the Order is directly fighting the Death Eaters and Snape must take a side and potentially blow his cover?


wynnleaf - Oct 22, 2005 5:23 am (#193 of 267)

I never thought of that. Either this is a bit of a glitch in the plot, or could Minerva have been "in" on a DD/Severus plan? She did a good job of acting ignorant about it, if she knew there was a plan.

Or maybe in the heat of the fight, she just wasn't thinking.

But even Lupin said they wanted Snape because they'd have been glad of more help.

Hmm. This doesn't quite make sense. All of the Order knew he was a spy. Why would all of them pass over that and think he should help them out in the fight?


Saracene - Oct 22, 2005 6:11 pm (#194 of 267)

Perhaps they all simply weren't thinking straight; having Death Eaters show up at school must have been a huge shock and perhaps all they could think of was how to get rid of them before they hurt any of the students.


Vulture - Jul 15, 2006 12:31 pm (#195 of 267)
Edited Jul 15, 2006 1:32 pm

If there truly is no instance of this:(he did say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ that he (Flitwick) was very fond of Lily, thus establishing that he was not prejudiced against Muggle-borns), then you probably have found an error. It would be an error of recording and not an error of substance. (Chemyst[/B] - Sep 24, 2005 8:58 am (#184))

Just seen this after ages. I reckon JKR (or someone setting up her site) got mixed up between Flitwick and Slughorn.


Miss Amanda - Jul 15, 2006 5:54 pm (#196 of 267)

My theory is that JKR could have been looking at some prewriting that had Flitwick going to inform Snape that Deatheaters were in Hogwarts (created before she had introduced the Horcrux-character Slughorn). Although, as a pureblood with goblin ancestry, perhaps JKR felt that Flitwick might be anti-muggle.

JKR says quite clearly that she considered having the "Half-Blood Prince" plotline in another book. As it gave away too much of the plot, she decided to leave it to another book and rewrote. Perhaps Flitwick took a more active role in this earlier version of the plotline.

Ok. I know I'm not making sense, but I'm trying to. What I'm saying is that it isn't impossible to confuse Flitwick and Slughorn. At first when I read this theory, I found it unlikely that anyone would confuse Flitwick and Slughorn. But, now that I think of it, perhaps JKR intended for Flitwick to take Snape's place as head of Slytherin house after book 2 (someone would have had to if the Half-Blood Prince plotline was included).

Sigh. I wish I could have been more clear or had some sort of canon evidence. I usually have something to back me up when I write. At this point, however, I only have my gut. As the first professor to teach Harry and Ron a spell that was significant in their lives (it led to Hermione becoming their friend and was the first anti-dark spell used in their lives), I just feel that this duel-champion professor had a bigger role during prewriting!


Finn BV - Jul 15, 2006 8:43 pm (#197 of 267)
Edited Jul 15, 2006 9:44 pm

She may also have confused all Charms with Flitwick, because Lily's charmwork is mentioned in PS/SS, I believe (or is that not until PoA… sheesh).


The One - Jul 15, 2006 11:30 pm (#198 of 267)

Olivander says in PS that Lilly's wand were good for Charms.


Finn BV - Jul 16, 2006 6:36 pm (#199 of 267)

Right… well, Flitwick and Ollivander… easy to be confused, I suppose?


Lina - Jul 17, 2006 2:59 am (#200 of 267)

Maybe Lily was just good at both - Charms and Potions...
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Filius Flitwick Empty Re: Filius Flitwick

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Solitaire - Jul 31, 2006 2:35 pm (#201 of 267)

perhaps JKR intended for Flitwick to take Snape's place as head of Slytherin house after book 2

Flitwick was already Head of Ravenclaw House. Why move him?

Minerva ... did a good job of acting ignorant about it, if she knew there was a plan....
... All of the Order knew he was a spy. Why would all of them pass over that and think he should help them out in the fight?

I agree, Saracene, that with DEs in the castle, perhaps Minerva and the rest of the Order felt that maintaining Snape's cover was secondary at this point ... perhaps they felt the safety of the students overrode keeping Snape's cover intact, particularly when they discovered Greyback was among the DEs.

I'm curious ... exactly how much do the other Order members know about what Snape has been doing? Do they know he is actually meeting with DEs (Bella and Narcissa) and Voldemort? Just exactly what has Dumbledore told them? And how much about the Order does Flitwick know? He is not listed on the Lex as an Order member.



haymoni - Jul 31, 2006 5:06 pm (#202 of 267)

I figured they THOUGHT they knew what he was doing.

There seemed to be a big deal about his visit to #12. "He's here." and all.


wynnleaf - Jul 31, 2006 7:50 pm (#203 of 267)

Well, I got the impression from Fred and George and Ron that Snape came and went regularly to Order meetings at #12. "He never eats here," for instance.

But the only other professor that we know of in the Order is Minerva. I was always surprised that Flitwick wasn't in it, even before the first fall of LV (he's not in Moody's photo). Flitwick is or was, after all, a duelist, right? That's not fan fic contamination is it? Of course, I'm not sure if we know how old Flitwick is, but I never got the impression he was older than Minerva. Anyway, the books have never identified him as one of the Order.

Does he know about Snape being a spy? We don't know. Does he know that Snape was at least once a DE and spy? Probably. I'd expect that since it was mentioned once in the Wizengamut, gossip would eventually get around to the professors at Hogwarts, especially those who had been there for years.


Finn BV - Jul 31, 2006 7:56 pm (#204 of 267)

I think Flitwick is a really underdeveloped character. Yes, he was a master of dueling (PS or CS… don't remember which), and he's part goblin ancestry, but we don't know that much else about him. He's not specified as being a member of the Order, which is disappointing, and we rarely get to Charms class anymore. I think either Flitwick's main plot point is coming, or he's just going to be tossed aside, which would be a shame… he's really quite a fun character!


Laura W - Aug 1, 2006 1:22 am (#205 of 267)
Edited Aug 1, 2006 2:25 am

“I wonder who'll be teaching us?” said Hermoine, as they edged into the chattering crowd. "Someone told me Flitwick was a dueling champion when he was young, maybe it'll be him." (CoS, Chapter - The Dueling Club)

Yes, I wish we knew more about Flitwick too, Finn. I really like him. Especially the way he surreptitiously gave Harry a box of squeaking sugar mice after the Quibbler interview with Harry was published in OoP.

Laura (swish and flick)


Ludicrous Patents Office - Aug 1, 2006 8:09 am (#206 of 267)

I wonder if Flitwick will become Deputy Headmaster now. I remember somewhere JO saying that Hogwarts alternated between male and female Heads. Flitwick would be the next logical choice. Snape is gone and Slughorn is recently out of retirement. I think one would have to be a Head of a house to become a deputy Head (based on pure guessing on my part). LPO


Finn BV - Aug 1, 2006 8:16 am (#207 of 267)

That's an interesting idea, LPO. I certainly hope so! It would certainly give him more of a part!


darien - Aug 2, 2006 1:32 am (#208 of 267)
Edited Aug 2, 2006 2:35 am

Really? I thought Dippet came before Dumbledore ad they are both men, unless there was another Head in between and that responds to the strange "and then Dumbledore became Headmaster...ñ" mystery that Lupin created

On another note, Im happy with Flitwick becoming Députy and next, he seems the most worthy candidate for me unless Sluggy is taken for more more experience; but still if its up to Minerva she'll choose Flitwick.


Pamzter - Aug 8, 2006 3:55 pm (#209 of 267)

JK did say that Ravenclaw was going to have its day as well. I'm guessing this will have something to do with Flitwick doing something prominent.


haymoni - Aug 9, 2006 5:10 am (#210 of 267)

I thought it would be Luna.


Choices - Aug 9, 2006 8:55 am (#211 of 267)

I agree - definitely Luna.


darien - Aug 10, 2006 12:53 am (#212 of 267)
Edited Aug 10, 2006 1:54 am

Flitwick doesn’t need to do anything prominent, he already has a lot of respect,

Luna on the other hand....................... It will be Luna


Die Zimtzicke - Aug 24, 2006 8:10 am (#213 of 267)

I agree it will be Luna, but Flitwick is going to come up again. I think we will see more of him now that Dumbledore is gone. The teachers are probably going to make more joint decisions. No offense to McGonagall meant!

Unless the school is closed... Sigh!


Mezzanine - Sep 7, 2006 6:10 am (#214 of 267)

Changing the subject slightly: This is what JKR says (among other things) about Flitwick on her site on the FAQ section: he did say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ that he was very fond of Lily, thus establishing that he was not prejudiced against Muggle-borns.

I haven't exactly re-read the entire book page by page, but I did look over the Flitwick scenes in Philosopher's Stone and I couldn't find him saying anything at all about Lily, let alone that he was very fond of her. I doubt this was a mistake on JKR's part, but I just can't find any such quote of Flitwick's.

Can anyone help me ?


Choices - Sep 7, 2006 9:29 am (#215 of 267)

I have not looked it up, but I do not recall Flitwick ever making a comment about Lily either. I don't remember any personal conversations that Harry has had with Flitwick for him to make that statement.


Laura W - Sep 8, 2006 12:11 am (#216 of 267)

Mezzanine, the closest thing I can come up with is in PS where Ollivander says to Harry re Lily, "It seems only yesterday she was in here herself, buying her first wand. ... Nice wand for charm work."

And Flitwick teaches Charms ... and he probably taught it to Lily ... and, well, I know that isn't very close at all, but it's the best I can come up with.

Hopefully, somebody else can do better.



Mezzanine - Sep 8, 2006 3:46 am (#217 of 267)

Thank you Laura and Choices.

This is indeed odd. JKR is known to slip up, she's human after all and the Potter universe is literally huge, but Flitwick's the Charms teacher at Hogwarts and Lily is Harry's mother and a very important character in the books. So the chances that she made a mistake with this statement are, or should be anyway, slim.

When I first read this I immediately thought of Ollivander too.

Anyway I'll post the question and the full answer here (sorry, don't know how to link, it's on her site, the FAQ section, about the books - if anyone wants to read it from there), in case I misunderstood and she was reffering to another character.

Question:Is Flitwick a short human or is he some other type of being? (A Mugglenet/Lexicon question)

JKR's answer: Just like Dean Thomas (see ‘Extras’), Flitwick has a background that I now realise will never see its way into the books because it is not relevant to the plot. He is human but with a dash of goblin ancestry – something like a great, great, great grandfather. This is only interesting in as much as it gives him a perhaps unexpected empathy for people like Hagrid who are, in Death Eater parlance, half-breeds. However, Flitwick and Hagrid have never had a scene together, so Flitwick’s genetic composition has been relegated to the very back of my mind over the six novels in which he features, although I think it has informed his character. Slightly dotty though he may be, he is welcoming of all students, whatever their background (he did say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’ that he was very fond of Lily, thus establishing that he was not prejudiced against Muggle-borns).

I must admit, I was taken aback when I saw the film Flitwick, who looks very much like a goblin/elf (I’ve never actually asked the filmmakers precisely what he is), because the Flitwick in my imagination simply looks like a very small old man.


haymoni - Sep 8, 2006 4:18 am (#218 of 267)

In SS/PS, Flitwick gets very excited when he reads Harry's name and falls off the stack of books - perhaps she had that diaglogue inserted there, but it got edited out.


legolas returns - Sep 8, 2006 9:45 am (#219 of 267)

Possibly JKR got confused between Flitwick and Slughorn. Slughorn was fond on Lily.


Die Zimtzicke - Sep 8, 2006 4:00 pm (#220 of 267)

Jo OFTEN says things in interviews that are NOT in the books. I could think of ten examples without even trying. Flitwick being fond of Lily is one of them. I can't stand it. If something is important, I think it should be in the books. Not everyone hunts down every interview the day she gives it.


Holly T. - Sep 8, 2006 5:43 pm (#221 of 267)

I don't think some of these things are important, but I do think she has a backstory for all of the characters and I think she is surprised sometimes that she didn't put some of these little details--like Ron's patronus--in the books, because she knows them. I deal with authors all the time who are very surprised when I point out that they left out information, because they really think it is in their manuscript. They know it, so when they read it, they think it is in there. I think that is the case with Jo and the backstory of her characters. She's willing to answer questions about all of the nitpicky details we ask about but I think everything that is really important to the plot is in the books. I think from what Hagrid and others have said about Harry's parents it is clear that they were well liked at school. I think we can infer then that a professor who was teaching when James and Lily were at Hogwarts, especially a professor like Flitwick who pretty much seems to like everyone, probably had a positive opinion of them.


Choices - Sep 8, 2006 6:38 pm (#222 of 267)

Die Z - "Jo OFTEN says things in interviews that are NOT in the books. I could think of ten examples without even trying. Flitwick being fond of Lily is one of them. I can't stand it. If something is important, I think it should be in the books. Not everyone hunts down every interview the day she gives it."

I'm marking this day on my calendar  - I found something I can agree 100% with you about, Die. :-) I don't keep up with JKR's interviews and I think if it's important, then by golly put it in the books. Those I read!


Die Zimtzicke - Sep 9, 2006 6:02 am (#223 of 267)

It has to do with the books becoming classics, to me. Do we honestly think someone reading the books fifty years from now will hunt down all her old interviews as we do to fill in the gaps? I doubt it personally. That's why I wish we got more about Flitwick in the books. With Dumbledore gone, I think the teachers should receive more focus. Perhaps that is just me, but I find Flitwick very interesting.

Hoever, I will also press this day in my book of memories, for the sake of Choices!



Steve Newton - Sep 9, 2006 11:48 am (#224 of 267)

Die, you are, correctly I think, addressing the question of what is to be considered to be canon. I agree that the interviews do not seem to me to be good sources.


haymoni - Sep 11, 2006 4:41 am (#225 of 267)

I think they are good sources for our nitpicky questions and that's about it.

If it truly was that important, it's in the books. What big secret thing has been said in an interview that was not included in the books?

I really don't care about Dean's backstory or the fact that Ginny's real name isn't Virginia. Even her recent comments on Snape as good/evil being important - duh! Didn't we kind of figure that out?

She's used interviews and her website to clarify things for us, but most of it is because we are too impatient to find out the answers in the end.

I think the books stand up just as they are. What she chooses to meter out in interviews is just icing.


journeymom - Sep 11, 2006 7:58 am (#226 of 267)

Well said, Haymoni.


Vulture - Sep 27, 2006 4:59 am (#227 of 267)
Edited Sep 27, 2006 6:01 am

I figured they THOUGHT they knew what he was doing.

There seemed to be a big deal about his (Snape's) visit to #12. "He's here." and all. (haymoni[/B] - Jul 31, 2006 6:06 pm (#202))

Sorry, I don't follow ?


Hi, Mezzanine: Re your posts #214 and #217, I asked the same question (including the link) a while back, on various threads. See posts #183 to #186, and #195 to #197 on this thread.

On the "Questions for the Host(s)" thread, see my post #1254 (Sep 24, 2005) and Detail Seeker's post #1257 (Sep 25, 2005).

Detail Seeker is a Host, so we can go by what he says. I can definitely confirm that such a remark by Flitwick does not occur in Book 1 (or anywhere that I recall), so going by what Detail Seeker says, the books take precedence over interviews where there's a conflict.

My own hunch is that JKR mixed up Slughorn's specific remark with Flitwick. Her general point about Flitwick, as I recall, was that he has no prejudices in selecting students.


haymoni - Sep 27, 2006 6:01 am (#228 of 267)

Vulture - I don't have OotP with me, but when Harry first came to #12, he was hustled into another room because the Order meeting was about to start.

Snape was reporting to them and it seemed to be a pretty big deal that he was there. I thought Molly said something like, "He's here." . . .which I took to mean that Snape didn't often come to #12 and when he did, it was pretty important.

Again - sorry no book, so I can't get you the quote.

The question was did the Order know what Snape was doing. I said they THOUGHT they did. He obviously was telling them something of importance and, until Dumbledore's death, I'm sure the Order members THOUGHT that Snape was spying for them.


wynnleaf - Sep 27, 2006 6:16 am (#229 of 267)

As far as interviews and her site go, I think we might as well regard them as canon at this point, particularly because anything she says in interviews could become canon before the series ends.

As regards other comments, that don't eventually make it into the books, I suppose it just depends. Most authors don't augment what we know about their characters by telling readers more than is in the books. Tolkien was a little different, in that he wrote more about his created world than he put into the actual books, having extensive notes. And sometimes those extras did tell a bit more about the characters. Among Tolkien readers and scholars, I believe that everything he wrote about his "world" was considered canon -- but perhaps there's some disagreement there.


Mezzanine - Sep 27, 2006 7:46 am (#230 of 267)

Vulture said b in post nr.227:Hi, Mezzanine: Re your posts #214 and #217, I asked the same question (including the link) a while back, on various threads. See posts #183 to #186, and #195 to #197 on this thread.

On the "Questions for the Host(s)" thread, see my post #1254 (Sep 24, 2005) and Detail Seeker's post #1257 (Sep 25, 2005).

Detail Seeker is a Host, so we can go by what he says. I can definitely confirm that such a remark by Flitwick does not occur in Book 1 (or anywhere that I recall), so going by what Detail Seeker says, the books take precedence over interviews where there's a conflict.

My own hunch is that JKR mixed up Slughorn's specific remark with Flitwick. Her general point about Flitwick, as I recall, was that he has no prejudices in selecting students.

Vulture, I think you're right. I am a bit disappointed with JKR here, I must confess. Making number mistakes, as I call them, is up to a point understandable and excusable especially if she's not good at maths. I'm not exactly brilliant either, so I can accept that particular mistake. But not knowing exactly what she had the Hogwarts Charms teacher say or not say about Harry Potter's mother in PS, that's much more serious.


S.E. Jones - Sep 27, 2006 10:09 am (#231 of 267)
Edited Sep 27, 2006 11:10 am

I don't know that it was really more serious. Considering she's got background information for every single character and every single organization, and every kind of creature, and every major magical location, etc, bubbling around her brain, she probably does have some trouble keeping straight what information she's placed where.

That being said, we do officially (at least at the lexicon and in this forum) look to the books as canon anytime there is a conflict between what is written and what she says. Why is this? Well, as JKR pointed out in her interview with TLC and Mugglenet when asked if she ever mislead: "You can imagine, I've now been asked hundreds of questions; it's perfectly possible at some point I misspoke or I gave a misleading answer unintentionally, or I may have answered truthfully at the time and then changed my mind in a subsequent book." We consider the books canon because that is what is, more or less, set in stone. It's much harder to go back and completely change the end of PS, for instance, than it is to readjust Dean Thomas's backstory or how many students there are at Hogwarts. Therefore, where the books and interviews conflict, the books win out. I hope my explanation of why some sources are considered more canon than others makes sense.


Mezzanine - Sep 27, 2006 11:40 am (#232 of 267)

S.E.Jones, thank you for clarifying. I never meant to imply that I do not consider the books canon when it comes down to book info versus interview info, but what regards her site, I believe that is a different matter. On her site she's not under any sort of pressure when answering a question and I believe she has the time to look over her answers again so as to make sure there's no confusion or mistake of any sort. Her site offers her the possibility to address fan questions in writing, not orally and that makes a huge difference, because it gives her the time to think her answers carefully through, wording them with the same care. That's why I think that her site could as well be considered canon, or as close to canon as can be. Therefore when a mistake occurs on her site, I see it as more serious than something she said in haste in an interview, when she was probably trying to get through as many questions as possible and at the same time not give too much away. Hope that makes sense.


S.E. Jones - Sep 27, 2006 12:03 pm (#233 of 267)
Edited Sep 27, 2006 1:24 pm

Mezzanine, I understood what you meant. I was simply stating how the Lex and this forum view "canon" material. As for her site, she does have more time to think things through, but, as with the GoF wand order, she can even mess up there (she originally posted on her site that James was to come out first and then Lily and then changed it within 24 hours so that Lily came out before James). She's a masterful author, but not an infallible one. Also, she still has to allow for changes that may crop up in book 7, so any information she gives out about how things work or the origins of some organization may have to change to suite her purposes in the future, so keep that in mind when reading both her site and her interviews. As she said in that quote above, "[she] may have answered truthfully at the time and then changed [her] mind in a subsequent book". Whatever is printed in her books, until we are told otherwise in book 7 or a later edition (as with the GoF wand order) or she specifically says something was a typo, are mostly set in stone, so they're still considered the overriding force.

Again, that's just an overall statement of how we view canon. As to her site, again, she makes mistakes there too. She does have a lot of information floating around in her brain (which I'm sure we'd all like to get a good look at) and she's said, on her site, that she often goes to the Lex to look up what she had happen where, when, etc. I think, for all the hours of enjoyment she's given us, we can cut her a little slack when it comes to anything outside of what is printed and sold.


Thom Matheson - Sep 27, 2006 7:19 pm (#234 of 267)

AS most of us read quite a bit, have you ever known any one of your authors to be scrutinized as much as Rowling? We place an amazing amount of pressure on her every time she opens her mouth. AS she said, she has gone out and purchased one of her own books just to check facts previously introduced. We are definitely a tough crowd.

Sorry about the off thread moment. I'll try to not do that.


Mezzanine - Sep 28, 2006 4:22 am (#235 of 267)

S.E.Jones, yes, I agree with your post and I also understood your meaning in your previous post.

I still think it's a real pity that she occasionally messes up on her site because she could avoid this for the reasons stated in post nr.232.

In my opinion (with the risk of sounding like an over-demanding fan) I believe the Flitwick quote is a mistake which can be considered serious. Either the Charms teacher at Hogwarts said, or didn't say that he was fond of Harry's mum. It's not the same thing. The wand order was initially another serious mistake, as far as I'm concerned, but she corrected that, so that's ok. I'm not saying she should go back now and correct every single mistake she made in the books, but I don't believe I'm asking too much as a fan, when I say that it would be very nice if she didn't mess up on her site in the future for reasons already mentioned.

All that having been said, we should really get back to the topic of this thread. I apologise for causing this digression.


 Vulture - Sep 28, 2006 7:21 am (#236 of 267)

In my opinion (with the risk of sounding like an over-demanding fan) I believe the Flitwick quote is a mistake which can be considered serious (Mezzanine[/B] - Sep 28, 2006 5:22 am (#235))

I'm inclined to agree with you, mainly because it's more than a year since I raised the question, and others had raised it before me, and it's still up there on her website. Not that I'm saying JKR should pay attention to me, particularly, but a year or more is a long time for a mistake like that.

(The only other thing I can think of is that she wanted to have Flitwick saying such a thing during Harry's first year, but that there wasn't room in the book.)


Mediwitch - Dec 13, 2006 7:43 pm (#237 of 267)

I did a couple of quick searches to see if this was discussed before, and I didn't see it. I apologize if I missed it, but I was just wondering about this "dueling champion" thing. Do we know from canon that Flitwick was definitely a dueling champion? I know in CoS Hermione says she heard that he was, but is there anything to corroborate this rumor?


PeskyPixie - Aug 27, 2008 2:26 pm (#238 of 267)
Edited Aug 27, 2008 3:27 pm

Delayed response, but Hermione is one of JKR's devices for providing information for readers. Unless it's contradicted in a future work (or interview??? ) by JKR herself, I think it's fair to believe that Filius Flitwick was indeed a dueling champion in his youth.


PeskyPixie - Feb 19, 2009 12:41 pm (#239 of 267)

I can't wait to learn more about Flitwick's goblin ancestry. It's really a shame that his story had to be sacrificed to make room for Hagrid's (which I would not want omitted either).

I wonder who had an easier time, both at Hogwarts and in the Magical community, and why.


Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 19, 2009 5:56 pm (#240 of 267)

Good questions Pesky. Maybe Filius became dueling champion because he was considered an easy target by the purebloods. I don't think they would physically go after Hagrid. LPO


PeskyPixie - Feb 21, 2009 2:21 pm (#241 of 267)

I wonder how many people figured out Flitwick's ancestry? After all, he is highly intelligent. He could probably blend in than Hagrid does.


Solitaire - Feb 21, 2009 5:10 pm (#242 of 267)

Maybe Filius became dueling champion because he was considered an easy target by the purebloods.

Then again, maybe he just was good at it. I do not see any residual bitterness in Professor Flitwick, as though he has been picked on over the years. Perhaps his skill at dueling became known during the last Voldy war.


me and my shadow 813 - Feb 21, 2009 9:20 pm (#243 of 267)

I would love to hear more about Goblin and wizard interactions, or in this case, relations. I like their pride of craftmanship, they remind me of the dwarves in LOTR, as I'm sure others must have pointed out. A race perhaps too focused on the material because of losing their status when wizards came into "power"...? As an aside, when my father would hear talk he didn't agree with, he'd call it "gobbledegook" (as in "bulls**t"). Is this a common term? I loved it, used to giggle, and never heard it again really until HP.

Maybe this is a good time to research Filius on the Lex...


Orion - Feb 22, 2009 5:38 am (#244 of 267)

In LOTR the different races didn't breed with each other, did they? It's great that they do in HP. Must have been a charming goblin gentleman. Not as cranky as Griphook.


me and my shadow 813 - Feb 22, 2009 9:23 am (#245 of 267)

There was man and elf with Aragorn and Aowen (sp?). No charming dwarf gentleman LOL!


Hieronymus Graubart - Feb 23, 2009 1:23 am (#246 of 267)

Originally, there were Beren (man) and Lucien Tinuviel (elf) and another pair (don't remember their names).

Arwen Umdomiel was to a small part human, a granddaughter(?) of Lucien's grandson(?) Earendil.

All the kings of Numenor, Andor and Gondor were descendants of Earendils brother, who had decided to live with the humans. Thus, Aragorn was to a very small part elf.

This information can be found in Bilbo's book (also known as "The Silmarillion") and obviously I should read it again.


Ludicrous Patents Office - Feb 25, 2009 5:52 pm (#247 of 267)

I have tried to read the Silmarillion and failed miserably. I don't remember any dwarf/human connections.

I wonder how far back Filius' goblin ancestry is. He needed to brush up on his dueling skills since Snape took him out so easily in HBP. LPO


Solitaire - Feb 25, 2009 7:58 pm (#248 of 267)

He probably wasn't practicing "constant vigilance," considering he thought he and Snape were on the same team. I bet that won't happen again ... although, come to think of it, after having been deceived by Barty Crouch, Jr., for a whole year, I might have expected everyone to be a bit more watchful and suspicious.


 Orion - Feb 27, 2009 7:32 am (#249 of 267)

No dwarf/human relationships, but elf/human relationships, that's speciesism. Too sad. I always had a soft spot for Gimli.


me and my shadow 813 - Feb 27, 2009 1:43 pm (#250 of 267)

He might still be available, Orion. Would you like me to set up a date for coffee? Filius Flitwick 464751818


Orion - Feb 27, 2009 2:10 pm (#251 of 267)

An espresso...


Ludicrous Patents Office - Mar 2, 2009 6:03 pm (#252 of 267)

Gimli on expresso, Not sure how that would look!

Interesting that Filius is known for dueling when Ravenclaw is known for intelligence. Not a usual combination. LPO


legolas returns - Mar 2, 2009 11:00 pm (#253 of 267)

He is charms teacher though so he is good with the wandwork. His intellegence might make him quicker at thinking things through and reacting.


Dryleaves - Mar 2, 2009 11:45 pm (#254 of 267)

Not a usual combination. LPO

Well, Athena/Minerva is the goddess of war and wisdom, after all.


Julia H. - Mar 3, 2009 5:25 am (#255 of 267)

I have wondered why it is the Head of Gryffindor who is called Minerva instead of the Head of Ravenclaw. But you are right, Dryleaves, Minerva is also a warrior goddess. Flitwick apparently has the same qualities as Minerva and McGonagall.


Ludicrous Patents Office - Mar 3, 2009 6:50 pm (#256 of 267)

Minerva/Athena are (is?) one of my favorite Goddesses. I loved reading about the "Bright Eyed Athena" in the Odyssey. Guess that is why McGonagall is one of my favorite characters.

Filius would be a name for Hufflepuff. I see them as Loyal and Faithful. Flitwick is defiantly for charms!

What fun it must have been for JKR to come up with the names. LPO


Dryleaves - Mar 3, 2009 11:40 pm (#257 of 267)

Yes, "Filius" really sounds like a friendly and loyal person. I think all the "i"s in his name also fit him, because it makes me think of a small, and perhaps also quick, person, but maybe that's just me...

Anyway, I agree that JKR must have had a great time inventing all those names. She is very good at it, too. Many of the names are full of associations that say something about the character.


Solitaire - Mar 4, 2009 9:15 pm (#258 of 267)

Flitwick reminds me of "swish and flick" -- the perfect name for someone who teaches Charms!


PeskyPixie - Mar 28, 2009 8:59 pm (#259 of 267)

Cute, Soli.


me and my shadow 813 - Mar 28, 2009 9:49 pm (#260 of 267)

A friend just asked me today about JKR's choice of names and whether she'd mentioned consciously employing onomonapea. After a fit of giggles, I said absolutely! I went through about a dozen different characters, Filius amongst them. She loved it. Another Potty in the making, I'd say.


Ludicrous Patents Office - Apr 2, 2009 7:20 pm (#261 of 267)

I would like to know if Filius ever becomes Headmaster of Hogwarts. LPO


legolas returns - Apr 3, 2009 12:41 pm (#262 of 267)

Isn't he a little bit on the old side. JKR said that McGonagall was too old and she wasn't that old in comparison to other Witches and Wizards.


TwinklingBlueEyes - Apr 3, 2009 5:08 pm (#263 of 267)

Isn't he a little bit on the old side....

Well, lets see, Dumbledore was 150'ish... old by what standards, remember, witches and wizards live longer than, er, muggles.

How's that for a run-on?

Edit: Seems to me that age is one of JKR's inconsistencies(sp)Seems we put McGonnagal's age around 75? Dumbledore is twice her age. Flintwick may be in his prime.


Solitaire - Apr 3, 2009 10:29 pm (#264 of 267)

Maybe Witches and Wizards are like Muggles. Some 75-year-olds are a lot older (or, rather, more "aged") physically and mentally than others.


legolas returns - Apr 4, 2009 12:51 am (#265 of 267)

I still think personally that both of them were fairly spritely regardless of age. Flitwick brought down a Death Eater so he is still quite able to defend himself.


Solitaire - Apr 4, 2009 9:41 am (#266 of 267)

I am sure Flitwick would be a great Headmaster. The only drawback is that he might be hard to see sometimes ... as he is so tiny he has to stand on a pile of books to see over his desk. One quality a Headmaster would need is Presence. Harry frequently notices the authority Dumbledore commands just by entering a room or casting a particular glance at someone. Both Snape and McGonagall have a strong aura of authority that says "Don't mess with me!" Both of them appear to have perfected the Stinkeye--the Teacher Look that makes kids want to crawl inside their desks. Could Flitwick be that commanding? I have no idea!


Orion - Apr 14, 2009 10:27 am (#267 of 267)

Sometimes teachers who everybody likes are better than those who everybody fears because nobody messes with them. They are too nice and well respected and so they create a benevolent, positive environment. I can't imagine somebody to mess with Flitwick. Maybe some diehard troublemaker from Slytherin. But then Flitwick is wizard enough to sort him out.
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